Interview with Vernon Thomas Morgan


Interview with Vernon Thomas Morgan


Vernon Morgan, from Cardiff, joined the civil service working at the Royal Ordnance Factory, volunteering for the RAF in 1941. After pilot training in South Africa he returned to several different roles: CO of a satellite aerodrome, pilot for wireless operator training. Retrained as flight engineer, he was posted to 619 and then 44 Squadrons, flying operations including bombing runs and repatriation of troops/POWs. He returned to the civil service after the war.



IBCC Digital Archive





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00:41:33 audio recording





Temporal Coverage


This interview is being held by Claire Monk with Vernon Morgan on Friday the 7th September 2017 on behalf of the International Bomber Command.
CM: Right, so, when we spoke earlier you mentioned that you were born and you grew up in Cardiff.
VM: That’s right.
CM: [Pause] And you are an only child.
VW: I am.
CM: What can you tell me about that time?
VM: Well it’s interesting, only child, but next door to me, next door but one, I had a family that had three sons and a daughter and we more or less lived with each other; as far as I’m concerned they were nearly brothers and sisters really. So I was never lonely. I went to school in Cardiff, I went to primary school and an elementary school and then I went to Cathays High School, where I did all the normal things, got my matriculation certificate and then started to look for a job. Sat the civil service exam, very fortunate, nineteen thousand sat it and one thousand were successful, and I passed, and I was in these days you didn’t have any choice about argy-bargy you were told where to go [emphasis]. So I was told to go to RA ROF, Royal Ordnance Factory, Hereford to start work, and off I went. Went into digs there, stayed in somebody’s house and I went in the accounts department of the Royal Ordnance Factory. And that’s where I stayed until the war came. And then I decided to volunteer before I was called up, and I decided I wanted to go in the air force. I had horrible feelings about ground warfare in the army which I didn’t fancy and I didn’t like the sea, so I said well the alternative’s the air force so I joined up. And the only thing they could tell me I could do was a wireless operator. So I said so be it. So I went into the RAF, I went into Blackpool on er August Bank Holiday Monday I was called up there, and in whatever date that was, forgive me [rustle of paper] I’ll look. It was in August 1941 and I went to Blackpool and I started on a wireless operators course and eventually I decided that I’d volunteer for aircrew while I was there. Big thing that because you became elite [emphasis] then, and you got a white flash in your cap and I was accepted, and that started my aircrew training. Um, which I eventually was moved from Blackpool down to the aircrew recruiting centre in Lloyds in London, Lords cricket ground which is where you started all everything to do with aircrew. And that was beginning of my travelling to be a pilot and I went to I don’t know what at Blackpool, I did a lot of medicals, got eyesight and heart and everything, you know you had to make sure you were hundred per cent fit and then I went to a little aerodrome called Booker where I flew a Tiger Moth. And after about eight hours I went solo and they said right that’s it, you’re accepted now for full pilot training. So that was it, and I then waited about a bit, and [rustles of paper] checking on my on my log book to make sure I get my sequences right otherwise I’ll get everything wrong. Yes, for some reason then, I think I told you earlier, I went to RAF Hemswell, for four months and then I went to RAF Cottesmore. What I did there I’ve no idea [emphasis] and I couldn’t find out, so I was, I presume I had some ground training, cause they you did everything. You did meteorology, principles of flying and all sorts of things. I assume I did things like that and then that’s when I went to Booker for my aircrew check to see I was suitable and I was, and then I was waiting for a posting. And you got moved around quite a bit. I went to Brighton, in a hotel. Erm, my first bit of the war happened there [emphasis] because we were doing some again some class in a building on the front which they’d obviously commandeered and we were sitting there doing whatever it is we were doing [chuckle] and a German fighter came across and strafed us so we all dived down on the floor [laugh] underneath the sort of desk and I thought oh yeah, there is a war on you know, and my first sort of indication and then eventually in February ’43 I got on a transport ship; hell on earth I’d call that, um it you know you were in hammocks, there weren’t enough hammocks to go round, always a scramble to find a hammock to sleep on. You were slept down in the bowels of the ship, long tables and the hammocks were strung up over it in the morning after we had to clear up the sick: lots of people were sick and and you had about you know twenty people or so on this table and one of them had to go and get the food from the galley so you trotted off, ship rocking, you trying to carry bowls of soup and things slopping about, and bring it down and serve the people on the table. It was pretty grim, and you know everything was overcrowded, very uncomfortable and you were told always to be ready to put life jackets on in case you were attacked so on. So, I wouldn’t call it a very pleasurable journey and eventually we arrived at Durban. And there we were greeted by cars hooting, people waving and the lady in white who was a traditional well known thing at Durban, who sang a welcome to you as you arrived. And er so we eventually disembarked and went to a camp – Clarewood Camp - where we were absolutely delighted. We could buy bananas and pears and oranges and apples and things we’d never seen at home and going into Durban and having bars of chocolate and going to the canteens there and having bacon and eggs and things, cost us about a shilling I think. So this was real real luxury life there. And then was posted to a little place called Nigel where we carried on with our flying training on Tiger Moths. And after we had finished all the trying flying training there on the Moths, um we went to another little drome called Potchefstroom [background noise] where we finished our flying and then we were posted then to 21 Air School at Kimberley. And this was a place where we were going to do all our flying and get our wings. And er I flew Oxfords there and you had a ‘cope’ sort of training with you. I had someone called Dick Teager who became the best man at my wedding actually and we trained together in the Oxford. Er, did usual things learning all about the flying and night flying and instrument flying, lots of time on the link trainer and er were there any adventures there? Well, there was one, [emphasis] yes, my co-pilot Dick Teager and I were on a navigation exercise and I was flying and he was doing the navigating, and after a little while there was a bang [emphasis] and the aircraft started to shudder. I ‘What the hell’s that?’ ‘Oh no I don’t know,’ he said. ‘Well something’s wrong,’ I said, ‘the aircraft is is shuddering,’ I said. ‘Go and see, find anything that’s loose or missing or something.’ I said. We had no idea really what the hell was going on. So he got up and he sort of crawled back in the aeroplane. He said ‘I can’t see anything wrong’ ‘I don’t like this I think we’d better go back and land,’ you see. I said then, and then suddenly there was another BANG! [emphasis] and I thought oh gawd and the aircraft was quiet and steady and I said ‘That’s very odd’ so I said ‘Well, I can’t see there’s any problem, it’s still flying all right.’ I tried the controls and I said ‘I think we’ll finish the exercise’ so he said ‘Yes okay,’ so off we went and did our exercise and then came back and landed at Kimberley and as we pulled up on to the you know, tarmac there to park the aircraft, one of the ground said [Shout] ‘What’s wrong with your left entry, your port engine there?’ [shout] I said ‘What do you mean?’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘you’ve only got half a propellor!’ and he, I looked out and sure enough the propeller had two ends knocked off and I said ‘Well, I don’t understand that.’ Then I said, ‘Well what happened is one end came off that unbalanced things, set up a pressure, a tension and the other end came off to balance it and all was well.’ So then I had to appear before, he and I had to appear before the commanding officer. ‘Where have you been low flying?’ I said, ‘We haven’t been low.’ ‘Well how did you lose your propellor?’ I said ‘Look I don’t know.’ But, well he took a bit of persuading that we hadn’t done something wrong, anyway that was the one bit of excitement and [banging] yeah, the flying went alright we were you know spent a good time there, went to the cinema in the camp every Saturday and you know I said it was quite a good life really. We were. there was no sign of war there of course. Er we met girls in Kimberley, actually they were friends of people back at England who they told us to go and see them. So we went, and we went to the family and had meals with them and went out with them, and I said it was quite a good life and then eventually the day came when I got my wings, you know and Brigadier Baston, the commanding officer, pinned the wings on my chest and that was it. There was a little bit of argy-bargy about well what you do now and I said ‘Well, I presume I am going to go home now’ cause I said I had my eye on, I wanted to get back home, I had a girl waiting for me, and they said ‘Well you’ve done very well on navigating and you’ve done very well on instrument flying we think we could post you down to Capetown and you can become a navigator instructor.’ ‘Oh I don’t want to do that’ I said, I this wasn’t me being bold about wanting to fight the Germans, it was me just wanted to get back to England to see Cynthia. So ‘Oh no I don’t want that,’ well, ‘Also we could give you a posting to go to Bomber Command. To Coastal Command.’ ‘Oh no, I don’t want to do any of that, I want to get back to Britain, I want to go onto bombers over there you see.’ Anyway eventually after a lot of palaver, they agreed that I’d be posted back on bombers to England. So then again we had to wait and er for transport and eventually we got on a ship the Orontes I think it was called [cough] no this we did, that was our, we got on a ship that was a, a Polish sort of ship. It wasn’t a very nice ship and we went through the Suez Canal and we dropped off at Suez. We had to stay there for a while to get another ship. Suez was a funny area it was a sort of a desert and I can remember we had to wee in big funnels in the sand and there were warnings that er ‘Do not buy lemonade from local pedlars,’ because the lemonade is not very good it’s made up of urine and Nile water [laugh]. So anyway, we had and after that we got another boat, the Orontes and were on our way back home. And now this is a funny thing too. I can’t remember what port we arrived at whether it was Liverpool or Southampton, it was just a place that we were going to get off the boat and back home and we then we went to Harrogate which was a sort of holding centre, stayed in a hotel there and then I was posted to Perth which was an elementary flying training school with Tiger Moths. I don’t know going down a grade now, back on Tiger Moths, the idea was getting us back up familiarised with this country because over in South Africa you had big wide open spaces and if you saw a town you knew what is was ‘cause there wasn’t another one for hundreds of miles over here of course it was a conglomerate of things and you had to sort of start getting used to the different terrain and the fact that you had a problem knowing where you were so we, we spent some time at Perth and er after that I went to a senior NCO’s school at Whitley Bay. Now again I find it very difficult to know exactly and I can’t find out, I’ve looked it up on the internet, but you don’t get much joy, it was known as the commando course, and all I can remember doing there was scaling a cliff in Whitley Bay! [laugh] So er this was at the time of er the invasion of Europe in April ‘44 and after that, we went back to Harrogate. It then turned out that they didn’t know what to do with us; they had too many pilots and not enough aeroplanes. So we were having to get channelled into doing useful things. A colleague of mine went and drove engines, locomotives on shunting duties erm they couldn’t, they said we haven’t got any spaces on squadrons for you we can’t don’t know what to do so I was posted to another elementary flying school at Derby and from there they sent me out to a little aerodrome called Abbotts Bromley which was a subsidiary of Derby and I think I became the commanding officer there, because I was, it was a little outpost of Derby and there were about a dozen trainee pilots there just starting, and me. And, I had to, we had one aeroplane, Tiger Moth there and the instructors used to fly over from Derby every day and do their training with the lads. This was fine. I, it was a little aerodrome, I was in charge there, one of the trainees brought me a cup of tea in the morning, There was a local woman who acted as a chef there and she cooked me my meals in my own private little room. I thought this is the life, I hope they’ll forget my where I am and lose my records, I could stay here for the rest of the war! So I stayed there and it was quite good, you know, I used to have a little duty in the morning I just had to put out the T to show the way the wind was blowing, although why you did that when they had a wind sock and you could see which way the wind was blowing I don’t know. I kept my hand in flying and the instructors occasionally said ‘Come on, we better do some advanced flying, keep you in trim,’ so they came up with me and we did aerobatics and things and it was very good I, I er had quite a nice time there and erm I did something unorthodox there in the sense I would say well you know I’d like a weekend down in Cardiff to see my parents, so that’s all right you can fly down there in the Tiger Moth, can I? So anyway I [laugh] got in the Tiger Moth one Friday and set off for Cardiff you see. I had to land at Worcester and get refuelled, then I went off towards Cardiff and the weather came quite bad and I thought ‘Oh my gosh’ and then as I got up near Cardiff or up by Newport I could see all these barrage balloons with their cables I thought gawd I need to be careful don’t go too near cos I’m sure this is an unorthodox flight that I shouldn’t be doing, I’ll be in trouble, So anyway I managed to avoid the barrage balloons and I got to Cardiff airport and course it had one runway and it was right across wind and there was quite a strong wind as I can’t land on that, cross wind on a runway I’m only used to landing into wind on grass I don’t think I like that at all. So I flew over I flew into wind cross, low down on across towards the grass and waggled my wings you see, to say this is what I want to do you see. A red very light came on from the control tower, ‘Oh god,’ I thought ‘what’s that for?’ Does that mean that the ground is too rough or there’s potholes, or something and I can’t land there? I don’t know where else to go. [laugh] I won’t have enough fuel to go anywhere else apart from which, you didn’t have navigation aids I don’t know where else there is, so I’ve gotta land here. Well I flew round and I flew down and I picked a different spot fly into wind and waggle my wings as this is what I’ve gotta do: another red very light. ‘Oh god,’ so I thought, ‘Well, I’ve got to land here.’ So I turned around and did another circuit, came in and I got quite close down, see if I could see potholes or anything, I could, well I’ve gotta land I’ve got no alternative, I just hope it’s all right [laugh]. So I landed on the grass into wind everything okay, didn’t tip over, oh thank goodness for that, so I taxied round, back up to the tarmac in front of the control tower and switched off. And got my flying kit off and up into the control tower where there was a sergeant sitting there smoking his cigarette and as I went in, he said ‘Hello mate’ [bang]. I said ‘Hello,’ I said, ‘what was all that fuss about; what did you fire a red very at me for?’ ‘Oh I was just greeting you,’ he said. ‘What do you mean, greeting me?’ I said. ‘You fired a red very I was trying to say I want to land on the grass and you were indicating it was dangerous.’ ‘Oh no,’ he said, ‘No I was just greeting.’ ‘Well,’ I said ‘why didn’t you fire a bloody green?’ ‘Oh we’ve run out of those!’ he said. [laugh] So anyway that was all right, So anyway I had a nice weekend with my parents and flew back to Abbotts Bromley. Well, that wasn’t the end then, I then got shunted back to Harrogate, this is where you got while they tried to sort out what to do with you. And then they decided they’d post me to a place called RAF Madley which was near Hereford, that’s all right, as it was near my fiancé lived Hereford so thought that’s okay. So I went about and there they were flying Proctors training wireless operators and I was going to be a stooge pilot going up and flying wireless operators while they were doing whatever they do and so that was my assignation there. So I got onto a Proctor and I had my familiarisation flight to make sure I knew what to do with one and that was okay, so I then reported; I cycled away from Madley into Hereford, saw Cynthia and that was fine. And then I took my first official flight as a Proctor pilot with my group of wireless ops and their instructor, and the instructor was saying to me, because obviously they do navigation fixes and things, ‘Fly on such and such a course,’ you see. Yes, okay I did that, and then they say, ‘Now change course and fly somewhere.’ So I did that. And then they said, ‘Now do something else,’ so I flew that, did that, and then after a while they said, ‘Right, well the exercise is finished now, you can go back to the drome,’ see. I looked out of the window - where the hell am I? Cause I said I’d been so busy concentrating this is my first flight as pilot with these wireless ops on flying where they wanted me on the direction I was concentrating on that I hadn’t not looking where the hell I was going and look out the window and thought I I hadn’t any idea where the hell I am. And of course you looked down and it was just a conglomeration of towns and railway lines and you hadn’t a clue where you were, oh gawd, so well if I fly west, I’ll hit the coast and then I can see where I am, so I did that, and yes oh yes! I can see now and I’ve an idea now what I and I knew what course I had to fly to get back to Madley, which I did. Got back rather late, with a very irate duty pilot in the caravan, you know, that has to see you home, was being delayed going to lunch and very annoyed, so I landed there and I wasn’t very popular. I didn’t say I’d got lost, but, ‘What the hell are you so late,’ ‘Well,’ I said ‘These exercises take time,’ anyway that was my adventure at Madley, so I was still flying there so thought this is all right too I’m having a good old war, this is not too bad what can happen next? A posting came in. You’re going to St. Athan. St. Athan, near Cardiff, oh that’s not bad, that’s near home too, my parents are there I could live out I thought this is turning quite good this war, you know. Not as bad as I thought it would be. And er, it was a technical school and I thought what am I going there for? So I got to St. Athan and they said ‘You’re on a flight engineer’s course.’ ‘I’m on a what?’ ‘A flight engineer’s course.’ I said ‘What what am I on that for?’ ‘Well we’re short of flight engineers and we may be able to get you to a squadron as a flight engineer.’ ‘I don’t want to go to a squadron I’m a pilot!’ [emphasis] ‘Oh yeah, well you’ll still be a pilot.’ ‘Well,’ I said, ‘this all sounds a bit fishy to me.’ Anyway I had no alternative. I then did a course on the Merlin engine. Now I’m the least technical minded person you can imagine. And yes, theoretically, I learnt about the Merlin engine and I passed whatever it was there and they said ‘Right that’s it then.’ And er. ‘We’ll send you off and we hope you can get to a squadron.’ ‘Oh, all right.’ I then went to this place RAF Balderton. Now, I have no idea what I did there. I was there from er 29th of December 1944 to the 4th of January. Not a very long period, I have no idea what I did there. I can’t remember. All I can remember is it was perishing cold [emphasis]. Absolutely freezing and we had one of these stoves in the Nissen hut, burning wood. So all I all I slept in my flying clothes because it was so cold, and we found some old chairs and broke ‘em up and burnt them to keep warm that’s all I remember about Balderton. I don’t know why [emphasis] I was there, what [emphasis] I did there or anything else. And the next thing I was posted to the Heavy Conversion Unit at Swinderby. Oh, at last we’re getting somewhere near some flying now. There, I was introduced to a Lancaster and I did some training on a Lanc. I did circuits and bumps and got used to flying a Lanc, you see, and again [emphasis] I cannot remember exactly how I got crewed up. I, I’m not even sure exactly where it happened. I know that normally what happened with crewing is that was they crewed up everyone nearly except the flight engineer who joined at the last minute, I don’t know why exactly. But, anyway, I must have joined up and I went into a crew, an interesting crew because there was no Englishman in it. There was me a Welshman, there was a Dane, a Swede, and Canadians and that was my cosmopolitan crew you see. Okay, so be it. So anyway we finished all our training at Swinderby and at last, we got posted to a squadron which er was to Strubby where it was, or was it? [background noises] 619 Squadron at Strubby. And they didn’t know quite what to make of me. ‘Well, you’re down to fly as a flight engineer: you’re a pilot.’ I said ‘Yes, I am a pilot. And I’m not a flight engineer,’ I said ‘First of all I haven’t got a flight engineer badge, Secondly I haven’t got a flight engineer log book, I’ve only got a pilot’s log book.’ ‘Well, of course, you’re a pilot. You’ve got to have a pilot slot, you’ll be a second pilot. And doing flight engineer duties, but you’re a second pilot, that’s what you are.’ And the everybody wanted me to be their flight engineer cause they had a second pilot who could fly the bloody thing. [laugh] So anyway it was quite interesting I had to keep on insisting I was a pilot I’m not a flight engineer, I’m a pilot doing some flight engineer duties you see. And um so that’s how it was. So I then flew with 619 Squadron, and erm and that’s where I did my op, um well, I no there were, well, backtrack a little bit. While I was at Swinderby we got sent on what was called Operation Sweepstake on two nights, which was going flying to Strasburg. Now this is all a bit vague in my memory but I subsequently found that what Operation Sweepstake was was a diversionary flight to deceive the Germans that that’s where the raid was gonna be and they diverted fighters to you, you see. I thought, oh I see, so we’re the bait are we, we’re the ones that attracted the fighters while the others do their raid you see. So that was twice and I did say to the CO I said, ‘Is that counted as an operation?’ ‘Well yeah,’ he said, ‘it was over enemy territory [loud laugh] and you were being shot at’ and so on, so he said ‘I think [emphasis] it’s an operation but it may be a half [emphasis] an op.’ So I did two of those so I don’t know whether they count as two ops or one op, but anyway that’s it. And er then my first op at um at Strubby was a daylight raid over Germany, we were bombing some troop concentrations and this was quite a big operation, you know. We joined up with the Americans flew over there and um [background noise] we got over the target, you know, bomb aimer said right you know, gave his instructions and I looked out of the window and I could see these bombs coming down, like hail stones, and I thought bloomin’ ‘eck [loud laugh] never mind about flying straight and level, what about these bloody bombs, let’s dodge those, I said and then I suddenly thought well at night you won’t see those but I wonder how many people got hit by bombs coming down from their plane. I said there were these things coming down like hail stones round you, so er anyway that we did the bombing operations and came back home, and then I got posted to 44 Squadron which was at, erm, Spilsby. Now, and then, after that I got posted to Mepal, which was also 44 Squadron, and then finally to Mildenhall. Now, while we were at Spilsby and Mepal we did these trips Exodus, where we brought back prisoners of war from Germany. We also did some engine ferrying out to Italy, to Bari, and we also brought back troops from the Far East to bring them home, so we were doing those sort of jobs. I was getting in, I was flying by then, with the commanding officer of 44 Squadron, Wing Commander Birch and he had chosen me, I know why ‘cause he said ‘Well I’ve got you, because you’re a pilot,’ and he said ‘I can have a nap while you can fly the bloody thing,’ so I said, okay, that’s okay with me as long as he said I recognise you’re a pilot not a flight engineer, I said ‘No, if you’re banking on me being very good if something goes wrong with the engine,’ I said, ‘I’m useless, I’m hopeless technically,’ I said. ‘It’s just a ploy to get me into a squadron,’ I said. ‘That’s all right, but I want you in my crew,’ and he said, ‘we’re designated to go into Tiger Force,’ which was going out to the Far East and he said we we’ll be switching to Lincolns, and he said ‘that has two pilots anyway’ so he said I’m going to have you with me.’ So I said ‘oh that suits me that’s fine thank you.’ So we did these trips flying prisoners of war, bringing troops back, flying engines out to Italy and all these other jobs and er we kept doing that and then I got we got moved to Mildenhall and there we were going to switch to Lincolns ready for Tiger Force to go out to the Far East which I must admit I wasn’t looking forward to, and then, they dropped the atom bomb, and it was all over. And I thought [bang] thank god for that, so I didn’t really have any more then I was just left at Mildenhall, did the odd flight in the Lincoln, the odd flight in the Lancaster, all the year, the crew that I had at before the end of the European war disappeared, the Canadians all went, and the Dane, well they all went back home and I had a hotch potch of different crews. The only thing that was constant was Wing Commander Birch and me and that’s how we carried out till the end of the war when I got demobbed in er June 1946 and so ended my life in the RAF and I, oh I did forget to tell you [laugh] one of the things after I came back from South Africa, was that within a fortnight, Cynthia and I got married. I’d been sending her cake ingredients from South Africa ‘cause you could send parcels home, getting round the rationing so all the stuff had been sent home and the cake had been made, so we got married in 1944 and while I was at Mildenhall waiting to be demobbed she came up there and got a flat together and we stayed there until we were demobbed and went back home. We went to live in Cardiff, and I got back into the civil service and stayed there. I got various postings in the civil service and so on and I ended up in the civil service in 1981 when you got retired bang [emphasis] on sixty, 17th of August 1981, finished, retired. And that was it really so, I suppose that’s my history. [laugh]
CM: That’s amazing [laugh]
VM: All right?
CM: That’s fantastic! And now you’ve come back to Lincoln.
VM: And now I’ve come back to Lincoln. I was Lincoln, I mean I, I went back to Cardiff to start with and then I got promoted and went to London, and after that I went to the Atomic Energy Research Establishment at Harwell and I stayed there. Then I went back to London, to Surrey and that’s where you know I retired. And I lived in various places in London suburbs, and um until we got older and we went into a retirement establishment in Oxford, and then er then Linda and Joe said ‘Well, you know, you’re getting on a bit now as well and might need some care, so come up and live near us,’ which is what we did and here we are. And this is where we are. My wife died three years ago, four years ago now and that’s it really and the air force has reclaimed me in a way ‘cause I had nothing to do with them until I came up to Lincoln. [Pause] How’s that – anything else?
CM: No, it’s been fantastic. Thank you. [laugh] Yes, amazing. Would, if you had the opportunity, would you fly in a Lanc again – not that I can promise that of course.
VM: What do you mean, would I fly in a Lanc?
CM: Would you go up in a Lancaster again if you had the opportunity?
VM: Oh yes of course. Well I mean it’s very interesting the Lanc at East Kirkby,
CM: Yes.
VM: Just Jane, I went there.
CM: Yes.
VM: I had a taxy in it you see. ‘Course they all suddenly said oh well, he used to be in one of these, and fly them I got very embarrassed because people started queuing up to get me autograph and things I thought bloomin’ ‘eck I wish they wouldn’t do that, and it was very interesting because when I got in the Lanc and walking up the fuselage and then you had to get into the cockpit and there’s a big main spar across. Well, I couldn’t, I mean I had a job, I needed a crane to get over that I couldn’t get had to be helped over it, I go one leg up I said I don’t remember this being here at all before, because as a youngster, you know, I said I don’t remember, I didn’t know there was such a thing there [chuckle] I said I can’t get over the damn thing, I said it’s a major job to climb over this to get into the cockpit so it’s quite funny really. And um yeah anyway, there we are. I haven’t actually flown [emphasis] in one but I’ve been [emphasis] in one and I’ve had a taxy in one and you know, I’ve said to Andy Millican, the CO, of BBMF, I said you know if the opportunity arises while I’m here some time I said I’m ready for a trip. [laugh]
CM: I can imagine. Thank you.
VM: All right?
CM: It’s been amazing. I’m going to hit the pause button now.


Claire Monk, “Interview with Vernon Thomas Morgan,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed May 11, 2021,

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