Interview with Jim Philpotts
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Interview with Jim Philpotts
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Interviewer: Interview on the 30th of August 2000 with Jim Philpott at Wragby. Right. Jim, if you could just go through what your, what your wartime activities were. Just, just explain what you did, where you served and what, when you started please.
JP: Where to start? From the beginning?
Interviewer: Yeah.
Other: 1938.
JP: 1938.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I started off at Manby on an armament course and did, it was six months. That was before the war. I passed out as an armourer. Bombs and guns. Then I was posted to Waddington as an armourer. I was there at the beginning of the war —
Other: [unclear] the middle of 1940 to the end of 1940.
JP: I was there until the end of 1940 and then I was posted on a bomb disposal course and I was posted to Northern Ireland. Short and Harland was a famous shipyard in Belfast. Also Short Brothers who built the Stirling. I used to fit the turrets and arm, arm the Stirling, add the Stirling guns and the Browning guns, the guns and then they were flown from Belfast to some aerodrome. Is that alright?
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah, carry on. Yeah. Forget about —
JP: You just want a history.
Interviewer: Yeah. We’ll do that. Then we’ll —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Go back to, you know, to specific things. Of course you came, you came back. When did you finish in Ireland? When did you come back over here?
JP: Whilst in Ireland Belfast was badly bombed and we had a case where a bomb was dropped on Belfast Waterworks and when we started digging we found that the bomb had exploded and caused what they called a [unclear]. That was an underground, you know a bomb had dropped in a corner and caused like a [unclear] underneath. With a sergeant and a corporal on both the squadrons the corporal went down to have a look. He came back up again. For some reason he went down again to have a look and all at once he fell flat on his face. We realised what had happened and the sergeant went down to show him how [unclear] he fell on top of him and it was instant death. They were both killed. Died from carbon monoxide.
Interviewer: Monoxide. Oh dear.
JP: Yeah. That case. And after that —
Other: [unclear]
I was in Ireland, Northern Ireland for about two years.
Other: Nearly two years.
JP: I was in Ireland two year then I was posted back to England. I was still on bomb disposal. It was usually in the Norfolk area where our bombers used to take off at night. Coming back in the morning they couldn’t land because the Germans used to come in and drop butterfly bombs all along the runway which put the runway out of business. And then it was our job. In them days you could not defuse these butterfly bombs. What you had to do was go to each one singly and put gun cotton at the time [unclear]
Well, where they were. So if they were on the runway —
JP: Yeah. You couldn’t. In them days we didn’t know how to defuse them.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: It was like a tin of beans.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: With a propeller on the bottom and they dropped them from the aircraft and the arrows went around and let them go and drop very slowly. They just sat there but as soon as you touched them that was it. That was another job we did.
Interviewer: What kind of crater would that make then once you’d blown it up?
JP: Oh, it wasn’t a big, a very big crater.
Interviewer: No. Did it effectively damage the tarmac did it?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or the concrete.
JP: It would leave a small hole in the, or if a plane landed it would blow a tyre. It wouldn’t do a lot of damage. It would kill a person if they were in the vicinity. There was one case where a car went over one and it blew him to pieces and the car.
Interviewer: So would there be a lot of these butterfly bombs.
JP: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Would they just let them out of one bomb or was it like an incendiary? Did they just keep falling out?
JP: No, they’d come down like you know they seemed to drop them in, you know —
Interviewer: In order.
JP: In order like you know in a fashion, you know, to cover the runway. The idea was to step on that [unclear] which they did quite successfully.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And in those days we didn’t know what to do with them. We just had to blow them up in situ.
Interviewer: So what did you say? You’d got some, some —
JP: Gun cotton.
Interviewer: Cotton.
JP: Yeah. Gun cotton.
Interviewer: Oh, gun cotton. Yeah.
JP: [unclear] Stood well back, blew them up and that was all that we were able to do.
Interviewer: And you did do that one at a time?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or why didn’t you loop them altogether?
JP: One at a time.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: One at a time.
Interviewer: Right. But then later on you found out you could defuse those?
JP: No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No.
Interviewer: You never did.
JP: We never did. Never did. Unless they did later on.
Interviewer: So what, what other bombs? Did you have to defuse any other German bombs or anything like that that were dropped?
JP: There was, there was one special case at Strandtown.
Other: Yeah.
JP: There was a part of Belfast called Strandtown. A massive bomb was dropped with a parachute and it struck a tree and penetrated into the ground about six feet. We were called in. We’d never seen one like this before so the Army was called in and they had a look. They didn’t know what to do either so then the Navy was called in. They had no idea. Anyway, what happened a Naval officer went down and he said to the chap standing at the top of the bomb site, he said, ‘As I, as I do something to the bomb,’ he said, ‘You take a note.’ Anyway, what they did they put a rope around the bomb and tied it to a lorry. The lorry was a long piece away and gave it a [yawk?] nothing happened so we thought well that’s pretty safe. So, in the end what really happened when the bomb struck the tree it had broke a wire on the bomb someplace and that sort of made it safe. But at that time all that part of Belfast was absolutely evacuated. There wasn’t anyone at all in sight. It was one of these bombs where there was a window on the side and the rumour was going about that there was a German inside looking out this window. It was comical to listen to all the rumours going around, you know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: With this window. Anyway, what they did they took the bomb away and dissected it and found out in them days we had to keep going back to [Kirkham] to be refreshed as they found out more about German bombs.
Interviewer: Kirkham being what? A research place.
JP: Kirkham. Yeah.
Interviewer: A training place.
JP: Kirkham was a school where they used to train armourers.
Interviewer: Whereabouts was Kirkham?
Other: Lancashire.
JP: Lancashire. Yeah. It wasn’t far off like. Anyway, when they found out something new we had to keep going back to be refreshed and believe me we were working in the dark sometimes. But —
Interviewer: When you call that a big bomb. What would you call a big bomb? Would a thousand pounder be a big bomb to you or a four thousand pound or —
JP: It would be about ten thousand pounds this bomb I’d say.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’m sure. The idea was the bomb landed on land it would go off. If it landed in water it could still go off. It was a general purpose bomb. Anyway, it was made well it sounds simple [unclear] a wire which we didn’t know. Nobody knew anything about it, you know. You see the Germans kept you know improving on the strategy of their bombs all the time and we would [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. And did you wear bomb protection in those days or, at all?
JP: No. Nothing.
Interviewer: Just your uniform.
JP: Just the uniform. The only thing, the only thing that changed they gave us a gas proof uniform, Army khaki and it was impregnated with some such and such for gas. But apart from that we were in the dark most of the time. The only way we could deal with what the, when we did dig German bombs out usually we usually we did have what they called a tree panel.
Interviewer: A what?
JP: A tree panel.
Interviewer: A tree panel.
JP: It was like a [unclear] it was like you with a bib and a brace —
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Drilling a hole in the case. We’d drill. We’d a hole in the case and then put what they called a steam [unclear], a steam pipe in. Of course we had to defuse the bomb first. How did we defuse a bomb? We used to use high propane fuel which as the fuses were electric we used to pump salt in, into the fuse and make it safe.
Interviewer: You hope.
JP: That’s right. the fuse out. And then so we had to drill a hole in the bomb. Put a steampipe in and the exploder used to melt out and you wouldn’t believe this when that exploded it was laid it on the deck you could put a match to it, you could put a blowtorch to it and you would not burn it. You had a hell of a job to burn it. I will always remember that.
Interviewer: Yeah. So it had to have the detonator to actually smelt it.
JP: All German bombs were electrically operated whereas ours were much more mechanical. It depended on —
Interviewer: Right. So was there like a battery in there somewhere in the bombs?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. There was a battery and like a [main] spring.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: [unclear] the centre half. Whereas ours were more mechanical.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: All our time fused bombs worked on a little phial of acid and, underneath there would layers of [unclear] and the acid depends on the delay the more pellets of [pause] What do you call the sweets you put in?
Other: [unclear]
JP: No. They were round discs.
Interviewer: Like when you —
Other: Polo.
JP: Polo. It was like a Polo but made of [unclear] and the more you put in the longer the delay. Acid used to make the bomb drop. It would eat away this piece of [cotton] what had been left and that.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And that was our method of delayed action.
Interviewer: And that was on all of the squadrons was it?
JP: On all the bombs at this time? No. No. That was, that was a bomb that was you know timed to go off later.
Interviewer: So when I look at my reports and I see a Tallboy and it was delayed oh, twenty minutes or one hour.
JP: Yeah. It all depends. It would all depend on which fuse was fitted. You could, you know instantaneous over delayed fuse if you like.
I mean on the, on the —
JP: On the, on the big blockbusters it was about, there was three fuses. There was three.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: You would see some set. Yeah, there they are. One, two, three at the back.
Interviewer: Yeah. Looking at those big, were they just bolts around here?
JP: Yeah. Just big bolts around the bomb. Yeah.
Interviewer: And this is the pointed end is it?
JP: No. No, this, no. This is —
Interviewer: This is the thin end.
JP: No, this is the tail fitted on it. You’ve seen a picture of one with the tail on.
Interviewer: Yeah. That one there.
JP: That was the tail.
Interviewer: Yeah. This part is we think beyond where these people stood.
JP: That part there was a bit, it was to, the idea of the tail was the bomb was, the bomb sat like that and I knew that but when they dropped them like that the heavy end the tail would standardise them. And these certainly on the Tallboy which was the twelve thousand pounder they had a five degree pitch on there which made it spin as well.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: They brought that in.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And the original ones didn’t have that on. then when it wasn’t as accurate so they actually made a five degree pitch on it.
Interviewer: Spin.
JP: To spin. You’re telling me something that I didn’t know.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So on that’s, that’s got us on to like the middle of the war. So you basically did any German, was that just in an area if you like in Norfolk at that time or would you be called anywhere by RT?
JP: We could be called to any place.
Interviewer: Anywhere in the country is that or just the county?
JP: Well, just, there would be other bomb disposal.
Interviewer: And how many people were there in the team?
JP: There would be about twelve.
Interviewer: Twelve.
JP: Yeah. There would be an officer, and a warrant officer, a sergeant, a corporal. There would be about twelve in there.
Interviewer: And who were you associated with? Were you on an airfield or were you in the Army camp or were you at a particular station on your own?
JP: No. We used to travel about a lot. We, we used to set up camp wherever we were called. Supposing we were called down to Norfolk someplace. We’d take over an empty house or an empty building and make that our headquarters and we’d operate from there. We’d move about any place at all.
Interviewer: In your own lorries or —
JP: We had our own transport. We had our own transport.
Interviewer: Right.
We had our own transport.
Interviewer: Right. So you did that through to what? Towards the end of the war was it?
JP: Oh no. No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No. I was about three years [unclear] Then I—
Other: [unclear]
JP: Then I went on a torpedo course. But the part that always galled me was all the courses I did there was never an extra penny for it. There was nothing. The only thing I had they gave us a badge. A badge with a bomb on it, a BD on it and every time we went, ‘Oh, you’re bomb disposal. You must be [unclear]’ But we never got an extra halfpenny for it.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No.
Interviewer: No. So, you then went. What part of the country was that that you did the torpedoes?
JP: I went on a course. I went on a course [unclear]. I can’t remember where it was. Then I was posted up to Turnberry on the west coast of Scotland. Turnberry was a golf course before the war. Then when the war started they made it into an area to bomb. Now, its gone back to a golf course again. But while on the torpedo course I finished up in Turnberry, Scotland at a practice torpedo bomb dump. I don’t know if you understand torpedoes but this torpedo, this one was a warhead and it was exactly the same size as the, as a true warhead but that warhead was filled with water and to practice we filled up with water the head only and inside was air. We filled it with water and put compressed air into the bottle and dropped it from an aircraft and the idea was a ship out at sea on the Firth of Forth they would, they would aim for the ship. The torpedo would drop, make its way to the boat and after a certain time there was a valve on the head as the torpedo got slower and slower with the pressure of water beating the torpedo would lift this valve and the compressed air would move the water around and in the end the torpedo would be like that. Upright with the yellow head on it. And then there was a recovery ship which went out and picked it up and brought it back to town and that torpedo was all swept down, you know, serviced, put back together again ready for the next. Well, that was, yeah.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JP: And the —
Interviewer: Sorry go on.
JP: That was Beaufighters. Beaufighter squadrons. And I asked the pilot one day, I said, ‘Tonight we can go on a trip.’ It was the worst mistake I ever made because it didn’t do one bomb and drop it. It was practice like this up and down but by the time we finished I was [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Did you ever hear of a Lancaster dropping a torpedo?
JP: No. I wouldn’t be surprised though. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Interviewer: I interviewed a ground crew chappie who was based at Bardney and he said that he actually was involved with it where they, where they dropped one, practicing again.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: And you know it was so many different things which aren’t in the record books.
JP: Yeah. That’s it. I don’t know if you can see. I can’t see it very well but the head from there to there.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And they just screwed it on.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: You know. The whole screw. You can take that.
Yeah. That’s the picture that I’ve got isn’t it with all.
JP: And at the back here it two propellers and range for you know directing it and there was a gyroscope in the side and at the back here which kept on the level all the time.
Interviewer: Right. Right. So then that took you to the end of the war then did it?
JP: Oh no.
Interviewer: No. There’s more is there? there’s more. There’s more. Did you then go back on to bomber disposal then or what?
JP: No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No. Incidentally this bomb disposal business it wasn’t a case of volunteering like. When I was at Waddington there was a flight sergeant called Flight Sergeant Ryan. He was a proper demon and him and me didn’t get on very well. So what they used to do from headquarters they would send a signal, ‘Send an armourer to the bomb dump.’ And if he didn’t like anybody, and I was one he didn’t like then I had to go on the course.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: I didn’t volunteer.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Nobody did.
Interviewer: So what did you do after that then?
Other: [unclear]
JP: [unclear]
Other: Binbrook.
Interviewer: This was all, did you go back on to armoury then?
JP: Oh yeah. I went back on to the armoury. And then I finished up [pause] I finished up, I went on an inspection course. AI. AIS they called it. AID. AID was Aeronautical Inspection Directorate. AIS was the service equivalent of the AID and they called it AIS the Aeronautical Inspection Services. That was a six months course.
Interviewer: And what were you inspecting on that? Aircraft or something.
JP: We had our own [stance] when we passed the course and it was all theory. On the course there was an officer, an NCO comms and all that and it was all theory [unclear] you know measuring the instruments and we were taught by civilians.
Interviewer: What did you inspect afterwards once you had qualified?
JP: Well, being on, being on armament I was on, mostly on bombs. I was supposed to do Market Stainton. That was the main part and the main office for, for the bomb dumping Market Stainton was. All the way along —
Interviewer: For Lincolnshire was that?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Well, for all that Group 5 area.
Interviewer: Right.
All the way along Caistor High Street on both sides. Maybe you don’t know there was bombs.
Interviewer: I had heard.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: All along Caistor High Street and all the way along the village roads there were bombs each side of the, of the road and you had to have a permit, you know well you had to have a permit to get around. Anyway, I finished up at Market Stainton on an AIS course and inspecting and my job was to go around and inspect the bombs and the big trouble with the American bombs there used to be [unclear] at the back. There would be some explosives in the back like [unclear] and all that and they were very very sensitive. You had to do something straightaway with them. You had to —
Interviewer: And this was during the war as well. The American —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Were the American bombs for, did the British drop American bombs?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. They did.
Interviewer: What size bombs were these then?
JP: Oh, they were a thousand pounders. Five hundred to a thousand and my job was to go around. I was lucky because I was at Benniworth at the time and I was posted to Market Stainton. While I was at Market Stainton nobody knew what my job was. I was a [unclear] on my own and I had a bike and I had to bike for miles inspecting these bombs and I used to have to make a report on the condition of them and I used to recommend for dumping and that was why a lot of the bombs were dumped in the day in the Irish Sea.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: You’d be surprised how many bombs are in the Irish Sea dumping ground.
Interviewer: And you said because they were [unclear]
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. And how long were the bombs have been there then? Did they, they were put there and then destroyed quite quickly were they?
JP: That was put there just for storage.[coughs] [ ] for storage. And then after that Wickenby.
Interviewer: So are we still in the war now then? One of your jobs —
JP: No, this was —
Interviewer: This was after the war.
JP: This was after the war.
Interviewer: So, market Stainton then. Did they, so did they, that was after the war, did they actually take it from the airfields like Fiskerton, Bardney and other places and put them into the, at Market Stainton or were they where they flew them from?
Other: They supplied the aerodromes all around.
Interviewer: Right.
Other: [unclear] along the Caistor High Street or [unclear]
Interviewer: How were they delivered there? Were they on trains or on —
Other: Trains brought them in to all these little stations.
JP: Yeah. What happened, what happened every day when this line was closed.
Interviewer: The Wragby line.
JP: Yeah. Every day a train loaded with bombs would come. They would take them to Donington on Bain by train load and then there was deposited, you know. They were taken by lorry to other aerodromes around.
Interviewer: So did you actually, were the Grand Slams and the Tallboys were they put up at Market Stainton as well?
JP: Oh yeah. They were on the roadsides. Yeah. And also gas bottles.
Interviewer: And?
JP: Gas bottles.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Gas bottles.
Interviewer: Why was that?
JP: There was a place on the Caistor High Street corner called —
Other: Gas Lane.
JP: Gas Lane. Yeah. Gas Lane. But we never used it.
Interviewer: Was that mustard gas by any chance?
JP: I don’t think so.
Interviewer: There has been some talk recently on the —
JP: I don’t really know because I never had much to do with them but there was definitely gas bottles on the Caistor High Street. Gas Alley we called it. A lot of people don’t know that.
Interviewer: That was at Hemingby did you say?
Other: [unclear]I used to be [unclear] on all those roads to Market Stainton [unclear]
JP: But the funny part —
Interviewer: But didn’t the Germans see them then? Were they camouflaged then or —
JP: Well, you see —
Other: [unclear]
You see, the idea was they were spread out, you know. They were spread out for miles, you know. They couldn’t put them in one big dump beside the [pause] but that idea why they were spread out all the way along the Caistor High Street. [unclear] on the Caistor High Street and [unclear] to Caistor and all the side lanes was bomb bays.
Interviewer: Just by. Just by and —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Was there camouflage netting over them at all?
JP: No.
Interviewer: Nothing at all.
JP: No. No.
Other: Just stacked.
JP: Just stacked.
Interviewer: And then you had a unit just going and picking out whatever bombs they wanted in rotation. Taking them to various airfields.
JP: Yeah. And the funny part was the German prisoners of war driving the cranes what loaded the lorries. Yeah. Definitely.
Interviewer: Were they? And where were the German prisoners of war based while here?
JP: At Market Stainton.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And the hut’s still there. if you went to Market Stainton today the hut’s still there where the German prisoners were kept. Mind you they, they volunteered for it, you know. They said, ‘We’ll do this for you.’ They were volunteers. Collaborators they called them.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Yeah. Collaborators.
Interviewer: Yeah. So then after that you went to Wickenby did you say?
JP: I was sent to Wickenby because it had finished as a bomber aerodrome then.
Interviewer: So, this was straight after the war then.
JP: Yeah.
Other: 1948.
JP: 1948. The runways were empty so what they did all the bombs from all the aerodromes they brought them to Wickenby. Stacked them, you know all over the place.
Interviewer: And this was from Market Stainton.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: [unclear] Lane and all that.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Everything went to Wickenby.
JP: Everything went to Wickenby.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: When I got to Wickenby I was a sergeant and when I got to Wickenby I had about ten men under me and when I arrived at Wickenby outside the watch tower was a tea chest full of letters. People writing to the CO of Wickenby, “Have you any knowledge of my son —” Brother. Sweetheart. And then the letters were blown all over the place.
Interviewer: Really?
JP: I remember that. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that.
No. Strange.
JP: Anyway, my job was as an AIS Inspector was to organise the bomb dump at Wickenby. It was spread all over the, well you’ve seen a picture of them. They were spread all along the runway and I was the bloke in charge. I was the CO of Wickenby.
Interviewer: Right. And how long were you there then?
JP: Oh I was there, how long was I there?
Other: Well, you finished in ’48 didn’t you?
Interviewer: I’ve got one here [unclear] ten. You’ve got three bombs which is three bombs, twenty two pound.
JP: That one must be —
Interviewer: I’ve got that down as 1949.
JP: ’49 was it? Yeah.
Interviewer: According to your logbook anyway.
JP: I can’t remember. Yeah. Mind you, you’re going back fifty years aren’t you?
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So what did you, they came around. What was your job? You had to, you had to dispose of these Grand Slams and things so what did you do with them?
JP: Well, my job was to inspect them for safety reasons only.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And not only that but we’d tonnes of ammunition. The ammunition up there and we’d [unclear] bomb dump. It’s not there today but there was a bomb dump away down near the, near the road and we used to inspect the ammunition. Inspect the bombs. And inspecting ammunition what we used to do we used to open a box and take a sample out of the ammunition and send it to [pause] there was a place where they used to test it. I can’t remember what they called it but we used to send a sample of each box of ammunition to this inspection place and they would fire it and test it and send us a report back. Saying if it was alright and wanted disposing of.
Interviewer: Right. So what happened to those bombs then once you’d inspected them? You’d said right that’s, that’s faulty or that one’s ok. What happened to them then?
JP: Then any that was dangerous I used to recommend for dumping. Send a report up to headquarters that bomb wasn’t safe, the reason and recommend for dumping. So they’d load them up I expect and then they were dumped in the sea I should say.
Interviewer: So they’d put them on an air, was there still aircraft flying into Wickenby?
JP: Oh, there was —
Interviewer: Or they were taken by lorry somewhere.
JP: Taken by lorry.
Interviewer: Put them in an aircraft and them dumped at sea or —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or whatever. We should talk about operation, Operation Guzzle where it was getting rid of a lot of big bombs and I’m not quite sure whether they were the Barnes Wallis, the Dambuster —
JP: The Dambuster bomb.
Interviewer: Bombs, or whether it was the Grand Slams or the other. Do you know anything about that?
JP: Guzzle.
Interviewer: Operation Guzzle.
JP: No. I don’t know anything about that.
Interviewer: The name of the bomb [pause] So most of them went in the Irish Sea as far as you know.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Dumped in the Irish, Irish Sea. Any other ones that were ok what would have happened with those? These are Grand Slams. What would happen to something like that?
JP: Well, I don’t know what happened to them because after a while I was demobbed from Wickenby and what happened at the end I really don’t know.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: I don’t know what happened at the end.
Interviewer: Right. Right. So, you didn’t have anything to do with, did you ever get involved with Faldingworth then? Did you ever know anyone who worked there in the nuclear era? Like in the 50s.
JP: I’ve only been to Faldingworth once to look at some bombs. Thinking about it. [unclear] bombs. But I never had anything to do with Faldingworth. I think it was a Polish squadron wasn’t it?
Other: Yeah. Well, then [unclear]
Interviewer: That was afterwards. After the war. Then it became a —
Other: Nuclear.
Interviewer: It was a nuclear bomb store.
JP: Testing. Yeah. Testing.
Interviewer: Where they stored. Right. Right. So did you ever go to Bardney? To the airfield at Bardney when you were inspecting?
JP: No. [unclear]
Interviewer: Because the Grand Slam —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: It was only 617 Squadron who dropped those, and the Tallboys, the twelve thousand pounder, it was only 9 and 617 who dropped them. Although, there was one other squadron I think. They might have just test dropped one. So they were all destined for either Bardney or Woodhall Spa.
JP: Oh I remember [unclear]
Interviewer: Right. Lovely.
JP: Then Wickenby when I arrived there was just me, a sergeant and the twelve men under me and then over a period of time it gradually built up getting crews and officers and I can always remember a case I nearly dropped one. A wagon pulled up one day. An officer got out. He said to me, he said, ‘Take me around the camp.’ Anyway, we finished up at the old bomb dump and would you believe one of the blokes was stood having a fag. Mind you having a fag. You could. You could light a fire and nothing would happen. It was as easy as that. But he dropped me a brick. Anyway, I got him off. I managed to talk the officer around while he was stood there lighting a fag. It was safe enough. In fact, you could light a fire under some of those bombs and nothing would happen.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: It was amazing.
Interviewer: So you would have quite a few thousand bombs there then.
JP: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Why would Wickenby be picked for that then?
JP: Well, it was shut. It had shut down as a bomber base. It had finished as a bomber base. [unclear] a bomb site, you know.
Interviewer: So when you went down you said, you said there were twelve people there. What were the facilities then? Would there be the NAFFI and everything like that?
JP: No.
Interviewer: Or was it all closed down?
JP: No. There was just the bare minimum. Cook. You know, and the huts, the beds and all that.
Interviewer: So, you were actually, were based on the camp? You were billeted on the camp were you?
JP: I wasn’t.
Interviewer: You wasn’t. Were you at home?
JP: Because I used to jump on the bike and bike because I lived at Benniworth at the time.
Interviewer: Yeah, you said.
JP: I used to bike home.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: When the camp grew and like you had officers and police and all that. I never, I never used to use the guard room. I used to bike down to Clay Bridge. And bike all the way home to Benniworth.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: I’d bike home and avoid all the bull shit.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: That was the group that opened it.
Interviewer: Right. So, how long were you at Wickenby then roughly?
JP: Dates. Dates evade me. How long was I there for?
Other: About eighteen months or something like that.
Interviewer: And were there many when you said you were testing the bombs and that was, was there many that you had to dispose of?
JP: The worst was the American bombs. You were surrounded by serious gear.
Interviewer: Yeah.
[unclear] [porridge] in the back. They were the big, the big problem. I was never [unclear]
Interviewer: So it was a full-time job but were you fully employed all the time or was it quite an easy, easy ride?
JP: [unclear] nobody knew much about it. I was, I was a person on my own. Nobody followed me.
Interviewer: So you were just telling other people what, what to do.
JP: They came to me.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: The funny part was when I was in, when I went to Belfast on bomb disposal Belfast wasn’t bombed then. Short Brothers used to build the Stirling and the Stirlings used to be turned out about one a week. Anyway, they wouldn’t let their blokes work on the turrets nor the guns nor the ammunition so what they did they asked our officers to be sent armourers down to arm the Stirlings. And I was picked and we used to go there, fit the turret, fit the four Browning guns, put the ammunition in and then harmonise it on to a target. All guns harmonised on to a target and we had AID inspectors after we did the job. The AID inspector would come and he’d say to me, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘We don’t know the first thing about this. Would you say that’s everything’s ok and you sign it.’ You know on his behalf and he used to be quite honest with us. ‘We don’t know what we’re looking for.’ And that was an AID inspector and he had his own stamp.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Took our word for it. And the funny part about all this in them days they had Air Transport Auxiliary. That was like a civilian line of pilots and observers. The ATA. The Air Transport Auxiliary. They used to ferry the planes from and they had to be fully armed you know because they were flying across during the war and many was the poor gunner used to come to me and say, ‘Can you put us in the picture what we’re doing?’ What they had to do. It was pitiful you know the stories they had during the war you wouldn’t believe it. ‘Will you put us in the picture.’
Interviewer: ’What to do.’
JP: In fact, there was one, there was one air gunner at Waddington. He came running back to the armoury to me. He said, he said, ‘There’s no breech working the gun.’ The breech board is the bit that moves the guns back and forward and what had happened it had been primed. Somebody had pulled the breech block back with a bullet sitting there waiting in the barrel and he looked in and all you could see was an empty space and he got the wind up and he came running back. He said, he said, ‘There’s no, there’s no breech block.’ Anyway, when I went to the aircraft it was already sitting there with a bullet ready to fire.
Interviewer: To go.
Yeah. Nerves. He was pure nerves.
Interviewer: [unclear] on operations. In that time it was grass runways at Waddington wasn’t it?
JP: It was yeah.
Interviewer: They closed it down I believe.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: For so long I believe and they put concrete ones in.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did you ever go to AV Roe at Bracebridge Heath while you were there?
JP: No. but I got a job there.
Interviewer: Did you?
JP: Yeah. I got a job. After the war. When I came out the Air Force I lived at Benniworth in a tied cottage.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I was in an awkward position. Anyway, I thought what am I going to do for a job? So, I wrote to AV Roe’s and yes, they’d got a job for me. Well, it was a silly thing to do. How was I going to get to AV Roe’s by bike? I had no money, no car, and a bike. I was out of a job. Anyway, that’s how I finished up on the railway.
Interviewer: So did you take the job then at AV Roe?
JP: Well, I —[unclear]
Interviewer: And you couldn’t go. Right. So you didn’t take it.
JP: I applied for it.
Interviewer: And what would you have been doing there?
JP: Inspection. On inspection.
Interviewer: And this was after the war.
JP: Yeah. After the war.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And that’s how I finished up on the railways. I went to, when I finished my service I came out and got a job at the woodyard. I lived in Benniworth and I was at the woodyard not many weeks and one morning it was pouring with rain. I said, I said, ‘That’s it.’ I said, ‘They won’t see me anymore.’ And that was the woodyard. Then I went to Bardney one day and I went to the [beet] factory and I was interviewed by the personnel officer. [unclear] and asked me what I did in the Air Force. ‘Oh yes, there’s a job for you in maintenance.’ And I’m still waiting today. I’m still waiting for that job.
Other: Well, Fosters has been gone for a long time.
JP: Anyway —
Interviewer: Oh, William Foster’s you were invited to.
Other: [unclear] in those days, yeah.
JP: Then I went to the railway station because I was a bloke who I always wanted a job. Anything would have done because something always leads onto something. Anyway, I went to the railway station at Bardney and I said to the bloke there, ‘Any jobs going?’ And as it happened there was an old chap called Jack [Burnhead] who lived at Wragby. He was the ganger on this line here.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: See. And yeah, I got a job right away and he took me and the bike and him back to Wragby. Filled a few forms in and that was a plate laying job.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And I told you before your relation drove a trolley at Bardney.
Interviewer: That’s right. Uncle George.
JP: Yeah. Well, he was, he was a trolley driver.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Yeah. I knew him. Well, I knew all the gang at Wragby. There was an old chap —
Other: And Bardney.
JP: Aye, Bardney. [Billy Blow].
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Billy Blow, and there was your friend.
Interviewer: There was our Uncle George, there was [pause] he was [unclear].
Other: Oh right.
Interviewer: You’ve no photos or anything like that have you from Bardney?
JP: We did have.
Interviewer: There’s hardly any around of Bardney.
JP: Because on a Sunday all the gangs used to meet up to —
[recording paused]
Interviewer: This is your next story.
JP: In the early part of the war when they loaded the bombs on the aircraft they told the bomb aimer, ‘If you can’t find the target don’t drop them. Bring them back.’ And there’s a place in Norfolk called Berner’s Heath and it’s a big piece of wasteland and they used to drop their bombs there and they had to drop them safe. You could drop the bomb safe.
[recording interrupted]
[unclear]
Interviewer: One more time in the sun.
JP: This Lancaster come back and the air gunner, the tail end Charlie we were, we were digging a British bomb out of the heath and tail end Charlie opened his four Browning guns on us. He’d lost his nerve. That was it. That was the only time I’d been shot at during the war.
Interviewer: Did [unclear]
JP: No. The village was quite a drive away.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JP: They told them in the early part of the war if you don’t drop that bring it back and [unclear] dropped them anyplace. If you hit the target [unclear]. Yeah. But they used to drop them at Berner’s Heath down in Thetford in Norfolk. We used to have to go and dig our own out you know. But you could drop them safe them bombs you know. the bomb aimer would select to drop the bombs safe because there was a safety pin and you could leave it in and in theory that bomb if it went nose down and hit it shouldn’t go off.
Interviewer: So, out of his control, on his control box.
JP: On his control box he could select safe or live.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: It was a safety device on the fuse. There was a [fork] went into the front of the bomb. A fork. And a piece of wire from the fork went to the electrical box and the pilot or the bomb aimer used to select live or safe. If selected it dropped safe happen it would come back to this country if you were to leave that safety for —
Interviewer: The electric contact wouldn’t pull that out.
JP: It wouldn’t pull the wire and it would leave the fork in and the main part of the fuse there was a big propeller and when it hit that it would slam up against the cord and would stop that from hitting the detonator.
Interviewer: Oh, right. So, and then so they would drop them there then and then you would just go and dig them out again.
JP: Well, I used go and dig them out. But then you see just like [unclear] Have you ever been to [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Massive.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: It got sorted out. There’s a big piece near Thetford and then we used to use them for you know [unclear] and back from that area the early part of the war sometimes they would take them back to camp. Sometimes they would drop them here. The main thing of the story is that there were two of us digging in a hole.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: [unclear] he lost his nerve.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And for some reason he started —
Interviewer: Start treating [unclear] Blimey.
JP: He didn’t hit us. It was locked. Four Browning guns in the rear turret.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’m still here. It was the only time I’d ever been —
Interviewer: Shot at.
JP: Shot at during the war.
Interviewer: Right. Did You ever go abroad or were you always in this, other than Ireland?
JP: I always liked travel. I always wanted to travel but I’m the bloke that never went because I was always needed here. I’m the bloke. I’d have loved to have gone.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’d have loved to have gone but no I was always Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: And I’m the bloke that never got whereas we can’t send you because you’re a bomb, you’re this and you’re that. And I’m the bloke that wanted to go.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Never.
JP: Where to start? From the beginning?
Interviewer: Yeah.
Other: 1938.
JP: 1938.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I started off at Manby on an armament course and did, it was six months. That was before the war. I passed out as an armourer. Bombs and guns. Then I was posted to Waddington as an armourer. I was there at the beginning of the war —
Other: [unclear] the middle of 1940 to the end of 1940.
JP: I was there until the end of 1940 and then I was posted on a bomb disposal course and I was posted to Northern Ireland. Short and Harland was a famous shipyard in Belfast. Also Short Brothers who built the Stirling. I used to fit the turrets and arm, arm the Stirling, add the Stirling guns and the Browning guns, the guns and then they were flown from Belfast to some aerodrome. Is that alright?
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah, carry on. Yeah. Forget about —
JP: You just want a history.
Interviewer: Yeah. We’ll do that. Then we’ll —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Go back to, you know, to specific things. Of course you came, you came back. When did you finish in Ireland? When did you come back over here?
JP: Whilst in Ireland Belfast was badly bombed and we had a case where a bomb was dropped on Belfast Waterworks and when we started digging we found that the bomb had exploded and caused what they called a [unclear]. That was an underground, you know a bomb had dropped in a corner and caused like a [unclear] underneath. With a sergeant and a corporal on both the squadrons the corporal went down to have a look. He came back up again. For some reason he went down again to have a look and all at once he fell flat on his face. We realised what had happened and the sergeant went down to show him how [unclear] he fell on top of him and it was instant death. They were both killed. Died from carbon monoxide.
Interviewer: Monoxide. Oh dear.
JP: Yeah. That case. And after that —
Other: [unclear]
I was in Ireland, Northern Ireland for about two years.
Other: Nearly two years.
JP: I was in Ireland two year then I was posted back to England. I was still on bomb disposal. It was usually in the Norfolk area where our bombers used to take off at night. Coming back in the morning they couldn’t land because the Germans used to come in and drop butterfly bombs all along the runway which put the runway out of business. And then it was our job. In them days you could not defuse these butterfly bombs. What you had to do was go to each one singly and put gun cotton at the time [unclear]
Well, where they were. So if they were on the runway —
JP: Yeah. You couldn’t. In them days we didn’t know how to defuse them.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: It was like a tin of beans.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: With a propeller on the bottom and they dropped them from the aircraft and the arrows went around and let them go and drop very slowly. They just sat there but as soon as you touched them that was it. That was another job we did.
Interviewer: What kind of crater would that make then once you’d blown it up?
JP: Oh, it wasn’t a big, a very big crater.
Interviewer: No. Did it effectively damage the tarmac did it?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or the concrete.
JP: It would leave a small hole in the, or if a plane landed it would blow a tyre. It wouldn’t do a lot of damage. It would kill a person if they were in the vicinity. There was one case where a car went over one and it blew him to pieces and the car.
Interviewer: So would there be a lot of these butterfly bombs.
JP: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Would they just let them out of one bomb or was it like an incendiary? Did they just keep falling out?
JP: No, they’d come down like you know they seemed to drop them in, you know —
Interviewer: In order.
JP: In order like you know in a fashion, you know, to cover the runway. The idea was to step on that [unclear] which they did quite successfully.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And in those days we didn’t know what to do with them. We just had to blow them up in situ.
Interviewer: So what did you say? You’d got some, some —
JP: Gun cotton.
Interviewer: Cotton.
JP: Yeah. Gun cotton.
Interviewer: Oh, gun cotton. Yeah.
JP: [unclear] Stood well back, blew them up and that was all that we were able to do.
Interviewer: And you did do that one at a time?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or why didn’t you loop them altogether?
JP: One at a time.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: One at a time.
Interviewer: Right. But then later on you found out you could defuse those?
JP: No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No.
Interviewer: You never did.
JP: We never did. Never did. Unless they did later on.
Interviewer: So what, what other bombs? Did you have to defuse any other German bombs or anything like that that were dropped?
JP: There was, there was one special case at Strandtown.
Other: Yeah.
JP: There was a part of Belfast called Strandtown. A massive bomb was dropped with a parachute and it struck a tree and penetrated into the ground about six feet. We were called in. We’d never seen one like this before so the Army was called in and they had a look. They didn’t know what to do either so then the Navy was called in. They had no idea. Anyway, what happened a Naval officer went down and he said to the chap standing at the top of the bomb site, he said, ‘As I, as I do something to the bomb,’ he said, ‘You take a note.’ Anyway, what they did they put a rope around the bomb and tied it to a lorry. The lorry was a long piece away and gave it a [yawk?] nothing happened so we thought well that’s pretty safe. So, in the end what really happened when the bomb struck the tree it had broke a wire on the bomb someplace and that sort of made it safe. But at that time all that part of Belfast was absolutely evacuated. There wasn’t anyone at all in sight. It was one of these bombs where there was a window on the side and the rumour was going about that there was a German inside looking out this window. It was comical to listen to all the rumours going around, you know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: With this window. Anyway, what they did they took the bomb away and dissected it and found out in them days we had to keep going back to [Kirkham] to be refreshed as they found out more about German bombs.
Interviewer: Kirkham being what? A research place.
JP: Kirkham. Yeah.
Interviewer: A training place.
JP: Kirkham was a school where they used to train armourers.
Interviewer: Whereabouts was Kirkham?
Other: Lancashire.
JP: Lancashire. Yeah. It wasn’t far off like. Anyway, when they found out something new we had to keep going back to be refreshed and believe me we were working in the dark sometimes. But —
Interviewer: When you call that a big bomb. What would you call a big bomb? Would a thousand pounder be a big bomb to you or a four thousand pound or —
JP: It would be about ten thousand pounds this bomb I’d say.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’m sure. The idea was the bomb landed on land it would go off. If it landed in water it could still go off. It was a general purpose bomb. Anyway, it was made well it sounds simple [unclear] a wire which we didn’t know. Nobody knew anything about it, you know. You see the Germans kept you know improving on the strategy of their bombs all the time and we would [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. And did you wear bomb protection in those days or, at all?
JP: No. Nothing.
Interviewer: Just your uniform.
JP: Just the uniform. The only thing, the only thing that changed they gave us a gas proof uniform, Army khaki and it was impregnated with some such and such for gas. But apart from that we were in the dark most of the time. The only way we could deal with what the, when we did dig German bombs out usually we usually we did have what they called a tree panel.
Interviewer: A what?
JP: A tree panel.
Interviewer: A tree panel.
JP: It was like a [unclear] it was like you with a bib and a brace —
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Drilling a hole in the case. We’d drill. We’d a hole in the case and then put what they called a steam [unclear], a steam pipe in. Of course we had to defuse the bomb first. How did we defuse a bomb? We used to use high propane fuel which as the fuses were electric we used to pump salt in, into the fuse and make it safe.
Interviewer: You hope.
JP: That’s right. the fuse out. And then so we had to drill a hole in the bomb. Put a steampipe in and the exploder used to melt out and you wouldn’t believe this when that exploded it was laid it on the deck you could put a match to it, you could put a blowtorch to it and you would not burn it. You had a hell of a job to burn it. I will always remember that.
Interviewer: Yeah. So it had to have the detonator to actually smelt it.
JP: All German bombs were electrically operated whereas ours were much more mechanical. It depended on —
Interviewer: Right. So was there like a battery in there somewhere in the bombs?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. There was a battery and like a [main] spring.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: [unclear] the centre half. Whereas ours were more mechanical.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: All our time fused bombs worked on a little phial of acid and, underneath there would layers of [unclear] and the acid depends on the delay the more pellets of [pause] What do you call the sweets you put in?
Other: [unclear]
JP: No. They were round discs.
Interviewer: Like when you —
Other: Polo.
JP: Polo. It was like a Polo but made of [unclear] and the more you put in the longer the delay. Acid used to make the bomb drop. It would eat away this piece of [cotton] what had been left and that.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And that was our method of delayed action.
Interviewer: And that was on all of the squadrons was it?
JP: On all the bombs at this time? No. No. That was, that was a bomb that was you know timed to go off later.
Interviewer: So when I look at my reports and I see a Tallboy and it was delayed oh, twenty minutes or one hour.
JP: Yeah. It all depends. It would all depend on which fuse was fitted. You could, you know instantaneous over delayed fuse if you like.
I mean on the, on the —
JP: On the, on the big blockbusters it was about, there was three fuses. There was three.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: You would see some set. Yeah, there they are. One, two, three at the back.
Interviewer: Yeah. Looking at those big, were they just bolts around here?
JP: Yeah. Just big bolts around the bomb. Yeah.
Interviewer: And this is the pointed end is it?
JP: No. No, this, no. This is —
Interviewer: This is the thin end.
JP: No, this is the tail fitted on it. You’ve seen a picture of one with the tail on.
Interviewer: Yeah. That one there.
JP: That was the tail.
Interviewer: Yeah. This part is we think beyond where these people stood.
JP: That part there was a bit, it was to, the idea of the tail was the bomb was, the bomb sat like that and I knew that but when they dropped them like that the heavy end the tail would standardise them. And these certainly on the Tallboy which was the twelve thousand pounder they had a five degree pitch on there which made it spin as well.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: They brought that in.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And the original ones didn’t have that on. then when it wasn’t as accurate so they actually made a five degree pitch on it.
Interviewer: Spin.
JP: To spin. You’re telling me something that I didn’t know.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So on that’s, that’s got us on to like the middle of the war. So you basically did any German, was that just in an area if you like in Norfolk at that time or would you be called anywhere by RT?
JP: We could be called to any place.
Interviewer: Anywhere in the country is that or just the county?
JP: Well, just, there would be other bomb disposal.
Interviewer: And how many people were there in the team?
JP: There would be about twelve.
Interviewer: Twelve.
JP: Yeah. There would be an officer, and a warrant officer, a sergeant, a corporal. There would be about twelve in there.
Interviewer: And who were you associated with? Were you on an airfield or were you in the Army camp or were you at a particular station on your own?
JP: No. We used to travel about a lot. We, we used to set up camp wherever we were called. Supposing we were called down to Norfolk someplace. We’d take over an empty house or an empty building and make that our headquarters and we’d operate from there. We’d move about any place at all.
Interviewer: In your own lorries or —
JP: We had our own transport. We had our own transport.
Interviewer: Right.
We had our own transport.
Interviewer: Right. So you did that through to what? Towards the end of the war was it?
JP: Oh no. No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No. I was about three years [unclear] Then I—
Other: [unclear]
JP: Then I went on a torpedo course. But the part that always galled me was all the courses I did there was never an extra penny for it. There was nothing. The only thing I had they gave us a badge. A badge with a bomb on it, a BD on it and every time we went, ‘Oh, you’re bomb disposal. You must be [unclear]’ But we never got an extra halfpenny for it.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No.
Interviewer: No. So, you then went. What part of the country was that that you did the torpedoes?
JP: I went on a course. I went on a course [unclear]. I can’t remember where it was. Then I was posted up to Turnberry on the west coast of Scotland. Turnberry was a golf course before the war. Then when the war started they made it into an area to bomb. Now, its gone back to a golf course again. But while on the torpedo course I finished up in Turnberry, Scotland at a practice torpedo bomb dump. I don’t know if you understand torpedoes but this torpedo, this one was a warhead and it was exactly the same size as the, as a true warhead but that warhead was filled with water and to practice we filled up with water the head only and inside was air. We filled it with water and put compressed air into the bottle and dropped it from an aircraft and the idea was a ship out at sea on the Firth of Forth they would, they would aim for the ship. The torpedo would drop, make its way to the boat and after a certain time there was a valve on the head as the torpedo got slower and slower with the pressure of water beating the torpedo would lift this valve and the compressed air would move the water around and in the end the torpedo would be like that. Upright with the yellow head on it. And then there was a recovery ship which went out and picked it up and brought it back to town and that torpedo was all swept down, you know, serviced, put back together again ready for the next. Well, that was, yeah.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JP: And the —
Interviewer: Sorry go on.
JP: That was Beaufighters. Beaufighter squadrons. And I asked the pilot one day, I said, ‘Tonight we can go on a trip.’ It was the worst mistake I ever made because it didn’t do one bomb and drop it. It was practice like this up and down but by the time we finished I was [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Did you ever hear of a Lancaster dropping a torpedo?
JP: No. I wouldn’t be surprised though. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Interviewer: I interviewed a ground crew chappie who was based at Bardney and he said that he actually was involved with it where they, where they dropped one, practicing again.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: And you know it was so many different things which aren’t in the record books.
JP: Yeah. That’s it. I don’t know if you can see. I can’t see it very well but the head from there to there.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And they just screwed it on.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: You know. The whole screw. You can take that.
Yeah. That’s the picture that I’ve got isn’t it with all.
JP: And at the back here it two propellers and range for you know directing it and there was a gyroscope in the side and at the back here which kept on the level all the time.
Interviewer: Right. Right. So then that took you to the end of the war then did it?
JP: Oh no.
Interviewer: No. There’s more is there? there’s more. There’s more. Did you then go back on to bomber disposal then or what?
JP: No.
Interviewer: No.
JP: No. Incidentally this bomb disposal business it wasn’t a case of volunteering like. When I was at Waddington there was a flight sergeant called Flight Sergeant Ryan. He was a proper demon and him and me didn’t get on very well. So what they used to do from headquarters they would send a signal, ‘Send an armourer to the bomb dump.’ And if he didn’t like anybody, and I was one he didn’t like then I had to go on the course.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: I didn’t volunteer.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Nobody did.
Interviewer: So what did you do after that then?
Other: [unclear]
JP: [unclear]
Other: Binbrook.
Interviewer: This was all, did you go back on to armoury then?
JP: Oh yeah. I went back on to the armoury. And then I finished up [pause] I finished up, I went on an inspection course. AI. AIS they called it. AID. AID was Aeronautical Inspection Directorate. AIS was the service equivalent of the AID and they called it AIS the Aeronautical Inspection Services. That was a six months course.
Interviewer: And what were you inspecting on that? Aircraft or something.
JP: We had our own [stance] when we passed the course and it was all theory. On the course there was an officer, an NCO comms and all that and it was all theory [unclear] you know measuring the instruments and we were taught by civilians.
Interviewer: What did you inspect afterwards once you had qualified?
JP: Well, being on, being on armament I was on, mostly on bombs. I was supposed to do Market Stainton. That was the main part and the main office for, for the bomb dumping Market Stainton was. All the way along —
Interviewer: For Lincolnshire was that?
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Well, for all that Group 5 area.
Interviewer: Right.
All the way along Caistor High Street on both sides. Maybe you don’t know there was bombs.
Interviewer: I had heard.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: All along Caistor High Street and all the way along the village roads there were bombs each side of the, of the road and you had to have a permit, you know well you had to have a permit to get around. Anyway, I finished up at Market Stainton on an AIS course and inspecting and my job was to go around and inspect the bombs and the big trouble with the American bombs there used to be [unclear] at the back. There would be some explosives in the back like [unclear] and all that and they were very very sensitive. You had to do something straightaway with them. You had to —
Interviewer: And this was during the war as well. The American —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Were the American bombs for, did the British drop American bombs?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. They did.
Interviewer: What size bombs were these then?
JP: Oh, they were a thousand pounders. Five hundred to a thousand and my job was to go around. I was lucky because I was at Benniworth at the time and I was posted to Market Stainton. While I was at Market Stainton nobody knew what my job was. I was a [unclear] on my own and I had a bike and I had to bike for miles inspecting these bombs and I used to have to make a report on the condition of them and I used to recommend for dumping and that was why a lot of the bombs were dumped in the day in the Irish Sea.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: You’d be surprised how many bombs are in the Irish Sea dumping ground.
Interviewer: And you said because they were [unclear]
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. And how long were the bombs have been there then? Did they, they were put there and then destroyed quite quickly were they?
JP: That was put there just for storage.[coughs] [ ] for storage. And then after that Wickenby.
Interviewer: So are we still in the war now then? One of your jobs —
JP: No, this was —
Interviewer: This was after the war.
JP: This was after the war.
Interviewer: So, market Stainton then. Did they, so did they, that was after the war, did they actually take it from the airfields like Fiskerton, Bardney and other places and put them into the, at Market Stainton or were they where they flew them from?
Other: They supplied the aerodromes all around.
Interviewer: Right.
Other: [unclear] along the Caistor High Street or [unclear]
Interviewer: How were they delivered there? Were they on trains or on —
Other: Trains brought them in to all these little stations.
JP: Yeah. What happened, what happened every day when this line was closed.
Interviewer: The Wragby line.
JP: Yeah. Every day a train loaded with bombs would come. They would take them to Donington on Bain by train load and then there was deposited, you know. They were taken by lorry to other aerodromes around.
Interviewer: So did you actually, were the Grand Slams and the Tallboys were they put up at Market Stainton as well?
JP: Oh yeah. They were on the roadsides. Yeah. And also gas bottles.
Interviewer: And?
JP: Gas bottles.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: Gas bottles.
Interviewer: Why was that?
JP: There was a place on the Caistor High Street corner called —
Other: Gas Lane.
JP: Gas Lane. Yeah. Gas Lane. But we never used it.
Interviewer: Was that mustard gas by any chance?
JP: I don’t think so.
Interviewer: There has been some talk recently on the —
JP: I don’t really know because I never had much to do with them but there was definitely gas bottles on the Caistor High Street. Gas Alley we called it. A lot of people don’t know that.
Interviewer: That was at Hemingby did you say?
Other: [unclear]I used to be [unclear] on all those roads to Market Stainton [unclear]
JP: But the funny part —
Interviewer: But didn’t the Germans see them then? Were they camouflaged then or —
JP: Well, you see —
Other: [unclear]
You see, the idea was they were spread out, you know. They were spread out for miles, you know. They couldn’t put them in one big dump beside the [pause] but that idea why they were spread out all the way along the Caistor High Street. [unclear] on the Caistor High Street and [unclear] to Caistor and all the side lanes was bomb bays.
Interviewer: Just by. Just by and —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Was there camouflage netting over them at all?
JP: No.
Interviewer: Nothing at all.
JP: No. No.
Other: Just stacked.
JP: Just stacked.
Interviewer: And then you had a unit just going and picking out whatever bombs they wanted in rotation. Taking them to various airfields.
JP: Yeah. And the funny part was the German prisoners of war driving the cranes what loaded the lorries. Yeah. Definitely.
Interviewer: Were they? And where were the German prisoners of war based while here?
JP: At Market Stainton.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And the hut’s still there. if you went to Market Stainton today the hut’s still there where the German prisoners were kept. Mind you they, they volunteered for it, you know. They said, ‘We’ll do this for you.’ They were volunteers. Collaborators they called them.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Yeah. Collaborators.
Interviewer: Yeah. So then after that you went to Wickenby did you say?
JP: I was sent to Wickenby because it had finished as a bomber aerodrome then.
Interviewer: So, this was straight after the war then.
JP: Yeah.
Other: 1948.
JP: 1948. The runways were empty so what they did all the bombs from all the aerodromes they brought them to Wickenby. Stacked them, you know all over the place.
Interviewer: And this was from Market Stainton.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: [unclear] Lane and all that.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Everything went to Wickenby.
JP: Everything went to Wickenby.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: When I got to Wickenby I was a sergeant and when I got to Wickenby I had about ten men under me and when I arrived at Wickenby outside the watch tower was a tea chest full of letters. People writing to the CO of Wickenby, “Have you any knowledge of my son —” Brother. Sweetheart. And then the letters were blown all over the place.
Interviewer: Really?
JP: I remember that. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that.
No. Strange.
JP: Anyway, my job was as an AIS Inspector was to organise the bomb dump at Wickenby. It was spread all over the, well you’ve seen a picture of them. They were spread all along the runway and I was the bloke in charge. I was the CO of Wickenby.
Interviewer: Right. And how long were you there then?
JP: Oh I was there, how long was I there?
Other: Well, you finished in ’48 didn’t you?
Interviewer: I’ve got one here [unclear] ten. You’ve got three bombs which is three bombs, twenty two pound.
JP: That one must be —
Interviewer: I’ve got that down as 1949.
JP: ’49 was it? Yeah.
Interviewer: According to your logbook anyway.
JP: I can’t remember. Yeah. Mind you, you’re going back fifty years aren’t you?
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So what did you, they came around. What was your job? You had to, you had to dispose of these Grand Slams and things so what did you do with them?
JP: Well, my job was to inspect them for safety reasons only.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And not only that but we’d tonnes of ammunition. The ammunition up there and we’d [unclear] bomb dump. It’s not there today but there was a bomb dump away down near the, near the road and we used to inspect the ammunition. Inspect the bombs. And inspecting ammunition what we used to do we used to open a box and take a sample out of the ammunition and send it to [pause] there was a place where they used to test it. I can’t remember what they called it but we used to send a sample of each box of ammunition to this inspection place and they would fire it and test it and send us a report back. Saying if it was alright and wanted disposing of.
Interviewer: Right. So what happened to those bombs then once you’d inspected them? You’d said right that’s, that’s faulty or that one’s ok. What happened to them then?
JP: Then any that was dangerous I used to recommend for dumping. Send a report up to headquarters that bomb wasn’t safe, the reason and recommend for dumping. So they’d load them up I expect and then they were dumped in the sea I should say.
Interviewer: So they’d put them on an air, was there still aircraft flying into Wickenby?
JP: Oh, there was —
Interviewer: Or they were taken by lorry somewhere.
JP: Taken by lorry.
Interviewer: Put them in an aircraft and them dumped at sea or —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Or whatever. We should talk about operation, Operation Guzzle where it was getting rid of a lot of big bombs and I’m not quite sure whether they were the Barnes Wallis, the Dambuster —
JP: The Dambuster bomb.
Interviewer: Bombs, or whether it was the Grand Slams or the other. Do you know anything about that?
JP: Guzzle.
Interviewer: Operation Guzzle.
JP: No. I don’t know anything about that.
Interviewer: The name of the bomb [pause] So most of them went in the Irish Sea as far as you know.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Dumped in the Irish, Irish Sea. Any other ones that were ok what would have happened with those? These are Grand Slams. What would happen to something like that?
JP: Well, I don’t know what happened to them because after a while I was demobbed from Wickenby and what happened at the end I really don’t know.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: I don’t know what happened at the end.
Interviewer: Right. Right. So, you didn’t have anything to do with, did you ever get involved with Faldingworth then? Did you ever know anyone who worked there in the nuclear era? Like in the 50s.
JP: I’ve only been to Faldingworth once to look at some bombs. Thinking about it. [unclear] bombs. But I never had anything to do with Faldingworth. I think it was a Polish squadron wasn’t it?
Other: Yeah. Well, then [unclear]
Interviewer: That was afterwards. After the war. Then it became a —
Other: Nuclear.
Interviewer: It was a nuclear bomb store.
JP: Testing. Yeah. Testing.
Interviewer: Where they stored. Right. Right. So did you ever go to Bardney? To the airfield at Bardney when you were inspecting?
JP: No. [unclear]
Interviewer: Because the Grand Slam —
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: It was only 617 Squadron who dropped those, and the Tallboys, the twelve thousand pounder, it was only 9 and 617 who dropped them. Although, there was one other squadron I think. They might have just test dropped one. So they were all destined for either Bardney or Woodhall Spa.
JP: Oh I remember [unclear]
Interviewer: Right. Lovely.
JP: Then Wickenby when I arrived there was just me, a sergeant and the twelve men under me and then over a period of time it gradually built up getting crews and officers and I can always remember a case I nearly dropped one. A wagon pulled up one day. An officer got out. He said to me, he said, ‘Take me around the camp.’ Anyway, we finished up at the old bomb dump and would you believe one of the blokes was stood having a fag. Mind you having a fag. You could. You could light a fire and nothing would happen. It was as easy as that. But he dropped me a brick. Anyway, I got him off. I managed to talk the officer around while he was stood there lighting a fag. It was safe enough. In fact, you could light a fire under some of those bombs and nothing would happen.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: It was amazing.
Interviewer: So you would have quite a few thousand bombs there then.
JP: Oh yeah.
Interviewer: Why would Wickenby be picked for that then?
JP: Well, it was shut. It had shut down as a bomber base. It had finished as a bomber base. [unclear] a bomb site, you know.
Interviewer: So when you went down you said, you said there were twelve people there. What were the facilities then? Would there be the NAFFI and everything like that?
JP: No.
Interviewer: Or was it all closed down?
JP: No. There was just the bare minimum. Cook. You know, and the huts, the beds and all that.
Interviewer: So, you were actually, were based on the camp? You were billeted on the camp were you?
JP: I wasn’t.
Interviewer: You wasn’t. Were you at home?
JP: Because I used to jump on the bike and bike because I lived at Benniworth at the time.
Interviewer: Yeah, you said.
JP: I used to bike home.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: When the camp grew and like you had officers and police and all that. I never, I never used to use the guard room. I used to bike down to Clay Bridge. And bike all the way home to Benniworth.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: I’d bike home and avoid all the bull shit.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: That was the group that opened it.
Interviewer: Right. So, how long were you at Wickenby then roughly?
JP: Dates. Dates evade me. How long was I there for?
Other: About eighteen months or something like that.
Interviewer: And were there many when you said you were testing the bombs and that was, was there many that you had to dispose of?
JP: The worst was the American bombs. You were surrounded by serious gear.
Interviewer: Yeah.
[unclear] [porridge] in the back. They were the big, the big problem. I was never [unclear]
Interviewer: So it was a full-time job but were you fully employed all the time or was it quite an easy, easy ride?
JP: [unclear] nobody knew much about it. I was, I was a person on my own. Nobody followed me.
Interviewer: So you were just telling other people what, what to do.
JP: They came to me.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: The funny part was when I was in, when I went to Belfast on bomb disposal Belfast wasn’t bombed then. Short Brothers used to build the Stirling and the Stirlings used to be turned out about one a week. Anyway, they wouldn’t let their blokes work on the turrets nor the guns nor the ammunition so what they did they asked our officers to be sent armourers down to arm the Stirlings. And I was picked and we used to go there, fit the turret, fit the four Browning guns, put the ammunition in and then harmonise it on to a target. All guns harmonised on to a target and we had AID inspectors after we did the job. The AID inspector would come and he’d say to me, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘We don’t know the first thing about this. Would you say that’s everything’s ok and you sign it.’ You know on his behalf and he used to be quite honest with us. ‘We don’t know what we’re looking for.’ And that was an AID inspector and he had his own stamp.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Took our word for it. And the funny part about all this in them days they had Air Transport Auxiliary. That was like a civilian line of pilots and observers. The ATA. The Air Transport Auxiliary. They used to ferry the planes from and they had to be fully armed you know because they were flying across during the war and many was the poor gunner used to come to me and say, ‘Can you put us in the picture what we’re doing?’ What they had to do. It was pitiful you know the stories they had during the war you wouldn’t believe it. ‘Will you put us in the picture.’
Interviewer: ’What to do.’
JP: In fact, there was one, there was one air gunner at Waddington. He came running back to the armoury to me. He said, he said, ‘There’s no breech working the gun.’ The breech board is the bit that moves the guns back and forward and what had happened it had been primed. Somebody had pulled the breech block back with a bullet sitting there waiting in the barrel and he looked in and all you could see was an empty space and he got the wind up and he came running back. He said, he said, ‘There’s no, there’s no breech block.’ Anyway, when I went to the aircraft it was already sitting there with a bullet ready to fire.
Interviewer: To go.
Yeah. Nerves. He was pure nerves.
Interviewer: [unclear] on operations. In that time it was grass runways at Waddington wasn’t it?
JP: It was yeah.
Interviewer: They closed it down I believe.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: For so long I believe and they put concrete ones in.
JP: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did you ever go to AV Roe at Bracebridge Heath while you were there?
JP: No. but I got a job there.
Interviewer: Did you?
JP: Yeah. I got a job. After the war. When I came out the Air Force I lived at Benniworth in a tied cottage.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I was in an awkward position. Anyway, I thought what am I going to do for a job? So, I wrote to AV Roe’s and yes, they’d got a job for me. Well, it was a silly thing to do. How was I going to get to AV Roe’s by bike? I had no money, no car, and a bike. I was out of a job. Anyway, that’s how I finished up on the railway.
Interviewer: So did you take the job then at AV Roe?
JP: Well, I —[unclear]
Interviewer: And you couldn’t go. Right. So you didn’t take it.
JP: I applied for it.
Interviewer: And what would you have been doing there?
JP: Inspection. On inspection.
Interviewer: And this was after the war.
JP: Yeah. After the war.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And that’s how I finished up on the railways. I went to, when I finished my service I came out and got a job at the woodyard. I lived in Benniworth and I was at the woodyard not many weeks and one morning it was pouring with rain. I said, I said, ‘That’s it.’ I said, ‘They won’t see me anymore.’ And that was the woodyard. Then I went to Bardney one day and I went to the [beet] factory and I was interviewed by the personnel officer. [unclear] and asked me what I did in the Air Force. ‘Oh yes, there’s a job for you in maintenance.’ And I’m still waiting today. I’m still waiting for that job.
Other: Well, Fosters has been gone for a long time.
JP: Anyway —
Interviewer: Oh, William Foster’s you were invited to.
Other: [unclear] in those days, yeah.
JP: Then I went to the railway station because I was a bloke who I always wanted a job. Anything would have done because something always leads onto something. Anyway, I went to the railway station at Bardney and I said to the bloke there, ‘Any jobs going?’ And as it happened there was an old chap called Jack [Burnhead] who lived at Wragby. He was the ganger on this line here.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: See. And yeah, I got a job right away and he took me and the bike and him back to Wragby. Filled a few forms in and that was a plate laying job.
Interviewer: Right.
JP: And I told you before your relation drove a trolley at Bardney.
Interviewer: That’s right. Uncle George.
JP: Yeah. Well, he was, he was a trolley driver.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Yeah. I knew him. Well, I knew all the gang at Wragby. There was an old chap —
Other: And Bardney.
JP: Aye, Bardney. [Billy Blow].
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Billy Blow, and there was your friend.
Interviewer: There was our Uncle George, there was [pause] he was [unclear].
Other: Oh right.
Interviewer: You’ve no photos or anything like that have you from Bardney?
JP: We did have.
Interviewer: There’s hardly any around of Bardney.
JP: Because on a Sunday all the gangs used to meet up to —
[recording paused]
Interviewer: This is your next story.
JP: In the early part of the war when they loaded the bombs on the aircraft they told the bomb aimer, ‘If you can’t find the target don’t drop them. Bring them back.’ And there’s a place in Norfolk called Berner’s Heath and it’s a big piece of wasteland and they used to drop their bombs there and they had to drop them safe. You could drop the bomb safe.
[recording interrupted]
[unclear]
Interviewer: One more time in the sun.
JP: This Lancaster come back and the air gunner, the tail end Charlie we were, we were digging a British bomb out of the heath and tail end Charlie opened his four Browning guns on us. He’d lost his nerve. That was it. That was the only time I’d been shot at during the war.
Interviewer: Did [unclear]
JP: No. The village was quite a drive away.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JP: They told them in the early part of the war if you don’t drop that bring it back and [unclear] dropped them anyplace. If you hit the target [unclear]. Yeah. But they used to drop them at Berner’s Heath down in Thetford in Norfolk. We used to have to go and dig our own out you know. But you could drop them safe them bombs you know. the bomb aimer would select to drop the bombs safe because there was a safety pin and you could leave it in and in theory that bomb if it went nose down and hit it shouldn’t go off.
Interviewer: So, out of his control, on his control box.
JP: On his control box he could select safe or live.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: It was a safety device on the fuse. There was a [fork] went into the front of the bomb. A fork. And a piece of wire from the fork went to the electrical box and the pilot or the bomb aimer used to select live or safe. If selected it dropped safe happen it would come back to this country if you were to leave that safety for —
Interviewer: The electric contact wouldn’t pull that out.
JP: It wouldn’t pull the wire and it would leave the fork in and the main part of the fuse there was a big propeller and when it hit that it would slam up against the cord and would stop that from hitting the detonator.
Interviewer: Oh, right. So, and then so they would drop them there then and then you would just go and dig them out again.
JP: Well, I used go and dig them out. But then you see just like [unclear] Have you ever been to [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Massive.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: It got sorted out. There’s a big piece near Thetford and then we used to use them for you know [unclear] and back from that area the early part of the war sometimes they would take them back to camp. Sometimes they would drop them here. The main thing of the story is that there were two of us digging in a hole.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: [unclear] he lost his nerve.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: And for some reason he started —
Interviewer: Start treating [unclear] Blimey.
JP: He didn’t hit us. It was locked. Four Browning guns in the rear turret.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’m still here. It was the only time I’d ever been —
Interviewer: Shot at.
JP: Shot at during the war.
Interviewer: Right. Did You ever go abroad or were you always in this, other than Ireland?
JP: I always liked travel. I always wanted to travel but I’m the bloke that never went because I was always needed here. I’m the bloke. I’d have loved to have gone.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: I’d have loved to have gone but no I was always Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales.
Interviewer: Oh right.
JP: And I’m the bloke that never got whereas we can’t send you because you’re a bomb, you’re this and you’re that. And I’m the bloke that wanted to go.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JP: Never.
Collection
Citation
Roger Audis, “Interview with Jim Philpotts,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed December 8, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/52902.