Interview with Donald Jones
Title
Interview with Donald Jones
Description
Donald Jones was born in the parish of Manchester, Jamaica. He volunteered for the RAF and went on the SS Cuba to the United States, crossing the Atlantic to Liverpool in June 1944. He went to a former Butlins holiday camp in Filey where, as ground crew, they trained as soldiers to guard the camp. After a month, they totalled over 2,000 West Indians. Donald trained as a wireless operator. He learnt Morse code, the construction of the wireless and how to operates it. Jones went to RAF Church Lawford, Warwickshire, before going to Wiltshire. Although he enjoyed it, he recalls how cold the winter was. Quite a few aircraft came back damaged, and some did not return. Donald refers to the droves of aircraft passing overhead on D-Day. After the war he looked after German and Italian prisoners of war. He mentions the spectacular victory parade in London. Attitudes to the West Indians were mostly good. They were pleased not to have much contact with American forces. After the war, he studied and went to teacher training college. A lot of West Indians worked in England after the war. He returned to Jamaica where there was not much recognition for his service. He reflects on his war experiences and his attitude to war now.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
Creator
Spatial Coverage
Language
Type
Format
01:10:33 audio recording
Conforms To
Publisher
Rights
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
AJonesD[Date]
Transcription
Interviewer: Ground crew during the Second World War. He talks about his life in Jamaica before the war. His experiences with training and during operations in the war and his return to Jamaica during the period of demobbing. Mr Jones, can I call you Donald?
DJ: Oh yes. Please do. That’s alright.
Interviewer: What, what was life like? What was everyday life like in Jamaica? Perhaps we could start with where you were born, went to school and everything. Could you describe your memories of that time and how it differs from today?
DJ: Yes. I was born in the parish of Manchester, a very countrified section of Jamaica. I had a lot of [five brothers] and you had to work hard for a living and there I spent my days with my parents and my brothers. Went to school there. my father was the headmaster. [unclear] there. It was alright for me to go there. After [unclear] the bright lights etcetera. So after having passed what was called the Jamaica Local Examination which qualified us to enter teacher’s college on this evidence [unclear] in another parish near Kingston. When I got there I tried to enter St Michael’s College for Teachers and I failed the first examination and I went out to work. That was more or less the beginning of my career in Jamaica. Finally I was teaching with my brother in Kingston on occasion and there to my astonishment we were interviewed by officers recruiting people for the Royal Air Force. War had begun. The war was on and we had a lot of [unclear] and we wanted to do something for the Mother Country as it was called then. A lot of Jamaicans regarded England as the Mother Country and they would do anything to serve and to help. So quite a few of us volunteered for the Royal Air Force. Saying that yourself and [unclear] To our surprise some weeks after [the same officers came back for us] and as it was [unclear] as it were never allowed us to go back home. They took us in army trucks and took us to Palisadoes. That’s where they had the recruiting [unclear] weeks.
Interviewer: A bit earlier you spoke about being at school and your father being the headmaster. What was it like having a father as headmaster of the school?
DJ: Well, I think it was just a peculiar situation because my father was a very strict person. Many times I would notice sometimes he would want to flog another child but he would flog me first [laughs] and then he’d proceed to flog the other child so that it wouldn’t sort of, it would seem that he was being impartial. But he was a very good teacher. Excellent. Many of the things that helped me on in life later on came from him. Came from my dad [unclear] We’d notice, we realised that we had to be honest, upright if you like and we should work hard to move on. Not to be jealous of other people’s professions etcetera etcetera. So there is the value [unclear] Soon after that as I said before [unclear]
Interviewer: The whole family.
DJ: No. No. No.
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: One family. As a matter of fact it was [unclear] The rest, the rest of the family had already gone to various parts. They all became teachers and supply. [unclear] So they had all gone to various schools. Teachers. I’d have been the last one recorded. Got a job with [unclear] [one of the banks before] and then I got a job in Kingston as I said before and it was I was recruited into the RAF.
Interviewer: Ok. How typical would you say [unclear] was the discipline and the quality of education that you were getting [unclear] at the time or were you [unclear]
DJ: No. I was not privileged really. Some. I was not privileged in any way because you were not accepted in the [unclear] etcetera you know. You had most of your education at ten or eleven and then if you excelled at it then you could go to college. So, [unclear] the village had to yourself.
Interviewer: Ok. So it was most likely your generation would have access to that education.
DJ: Providing you qualified. Yes. Do you want me to go on? [pause] Yes, so when the [paused] you crossed to Palisadoes. We went by [unclear] most people did not have time to go back home so my parents did not know that I had gone to join the Royal Air Force. While at Palisadoes I did a bit of training there. We met a lot of other West Indians who had come from the smaller islands of Jamaica. You did some training for about two weeks. What they called square bashing. Marching up and down and doing various war tactics and so on. Then you were marched down Palisadoes [unclear] and some of us over this period of action wanted to go back home and while marching past Palisadoes fell to the ground and were sick and wanted to go back home. All they did was grab us up and put us in a truck and go back to Palisadoes. We had no [pause] you could not go back home. From the Palisadoes we were put on a ship called the SS Cuba which seemed to be a converted cargo ship.it was built in [pause] I don’t recall but it was [unclear] you see. It was small and we had to sleep in hammocks in the back of the ship and it was [unclear] that part was nice. [unclear] at night. . The [ ] part was nice. And then they were dashing to pick up the rest of the people from Trinidad, Barbados. Over a thousand of us.
Interviewer: And they were all West Indians.
DJ: All West Indians. All West Indian. At that [unclear] to America. We had a big job there to make our association with these different fellows from different islands. They had different customs through the Caribbean. But we managed and in time we had a good camaraderie then. So on this ship which we called the SS Cuba as I said before [unclear] if you did not like it you wouldn’t be happy there. You were anxious to get to where you were going. We didn’t know exactly where we were going. We were not told. But after a few days of sailing we noticed that we were escorted by two vessels, slow black ships [unclear] west Atlantic. After a few days we discovered that we were heading for America and we landed in Virginia and spent two weeks in a camp called Patrick Henry in Virginia. This experience was [unclear]
Interviewer: Arriving at Fort Patrick Henry.
DJ: At Fort Patrick and we were welcomed by the Americans [because it was war] Especially the range of eating. We were well fed. [unclear] we had games and we had excursions around the area and we had, we didn’t do any training at all there. Just waiting for transportation. And then after two weeks of revelling in good food and good camaraderie with [unclear] and we went by train from there to New York. And from New York we sailed. I saw lights. It was a night. We were coming down the coast and we looked behind us and saw this object directly behind us. [unclear] We were still anxious to get to England so we took heart and we endured the Atlantic again and a few hours out of the harbour there was a glorious [unclear] Hundreds of ships in front of us, behind us and all around. Some [unclear] sometimes shooting their guns. A spectacular site to see the ones flying aeroplanes. You know [unclear] and we had aircraft above us, we had warships to the side of us and this glorious convoy going across the Atlantic.
Interviewer: What year was that? The date?
DJ: This was, I think it was June 1944. Just one year before the war ended.
Interviewer: Ok [unclear]
DJ: No. Not then. No. No. Not yet. I can remember one night we heard deep sounding gunshot. Explosions. We didn’t know what it was but when it came [unclear] you were told [unclear] a loudspeaker [unclear] a submarine. We did not see the last of the ships. [unclear] they had submarines [unclear] escorts. [unclear] into Liverpool. At Liverpool we were well received. We were met on the pier by some dancing girls [laughs] That was supposed to cheer our hearts up. We came off and what struck us most was the cold. It was summer but it was really cold. [unclear] from the hot zones.
Interviewer: Had they given you cold weather clothing?
DJ: We got a coat but we didn’t get issued with a [unclear] as yet.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: But you see travelling.
Interviewer: Right.
DJ: But you had at least your coat [unclear] Then we travelled by train all night from [unclear] Liverpool straight across the country to Filey on the eastern shore and then we camped at a place in Filey. A camp at Filey. [unclear] Then in the morning when we were [unclear] we were issued with blankets, [suits] more coats, Long Johns [laughs] I don’t know if you know about them [laughs] and anything to make us as comfortable as possible. [unclear] We were in what they called billets. Long huts with about might be up to twenty four men in one.
Interviewer: Barrack rooms.
DJ: Barrack rooms. Twelve on each side with some coal stores in the middle [unclear]
Interviewer: If you could tell me a bit about that group. What people were saying and thinking. You said about people wanting to run away once they realised they were actually going to war.
DJ: Sure.
Interviewer: Whether it had changed. Whether there were still people who wanted to go home. What was it like. What were the men like?
Well —
Were there any characters?
DJ: I’d say dispersible because that came afterwards. This first group was a grand mixture of rats. Some rich, some [unclear] some were medically fit [ ] a grand mixture of that lot and you were all anxious to get into action. I didn’t pick up any fear around abouts there. As the days and weeks progressed it did seem to be going quite well. We, we began training soon after. We had about two or three days rest and then we began training. We were divided into groups under the leadership of —
[recording paused]
And these were English men. English men. So our first group of men was one battalion and this battalion were added to different groups and started training we had to do the training as a soldier did. The exact things a soldier learned. We got our guns, we got our helmets, we got our bayonets and we got our [unclear] [laughs] but we had to train as a soldier because they didn’t have soldiers to guard the camp and we as ground crew in the Royal Air Force had to guard our own camp. So we got the exact training of a soldier. Different war tactics and so on. It was quite rigid, hard training because you know we had to go through some form of mock wars you know. Field craft and all the different aspects of training for a soldier. So after we finished that we had our what you call a passing out. What do you call it?
Interviewer: Parade?
DJ: What’s that?
Interviewer: Parade.
DJ: A parade. But before that, before that after we finished the training as a soldier we were, we went through the next phase of training in different skills. Some of us became wireless operators, radio control, like tower control whatever they called it you know.
Interviewer: Oh, air traffic control.
DJ: Air traffic controllers. Some of us went, some went to the Transport Section where they became drivers and motor mechanics. Others were aeroplane fitters. We had to learn to service the aeroplane when they came in from, from flights abroad. Checked the aeroplane, checked the wings, checked the wheels, checked the engine and those of us who did wiring would check the intercom inside the plane. Yes. So we had different skills to do.
Interviewer: How were those groups selected? Was it on the basis of the training you had before or just —
DJ: I’m not sure. I’m not sure how they really did it. I would have found myself in a group of wireless operators. I don’t know exactly how they went about it.
Interviewer: But you were now basically a wireless [fitter?]
DJ: No.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: No. It was very interesting because I had to do Morse Code you know and we had to learn all about the construction of the, of the wireless and how it was, how it operates but those wireless implements were quite primitive. Quite different from now when I am looking back.
Interviewer: How did they look then? Very modern and state of the art at the time.
DJ: No. They were big things with you know big tubes and I don’t know.
Interviewer: So the first time you saw one did you think this looks primitive?
DJ: No. I didn’t know. No. No. Then.
Interviewer: Then.
DJ: Then. I’m only thinking in terms of now.
Interviewer: But then when you looked at it then.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: At that time.
DJ: At that time. At that time, yes. But we had to learn how to operate it or if anything went wrong with it we would try and do the best you can with it. But there were others who were trained to repair it.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: So if we are out in the field with the aircraft if you went into the aircraft and we found one of these wireless defective and we couldn’t fix it then you would take it out, take it to the workshop and pick up another one and put it in the aeroplane. So you had different skills for different, different boys had different skills all over. So when the square bashing was over and the skills training was over we had this passing out. But I forgot to tell you that a month after we landed or so another group came. Another thousand came. So we were about over two thousand West Indians in that camp at Filey. Filey camp is a camp that, it was, it was a holiday camp. A Butlins camp. A holiday camp that was turned into a camp for the Royal Air Force people. So after all that training we were ready now for operations. So those who did different skills, some went, were transferred from that camp now to various camps all over England. Motor mechanics went somewhere. Air control people went somewhere else. The aeroplane fitters went somewhere else. Wireless operators went somewhere else. I went to a place called Church Lawford in Warwickshire. Another camp in Warwickshire and I also went to another one in Wiltshire. I can’t remember the name of it. That’s in the south of England near to Bristol. There we had to do our job and my own experience is that I enjoyed it but when it came to winter, during the winter and we had to spend all day out on the airfield because when the aeroplanes come in from their raids abroad we had to get into them quickly and check them over and if there was anything wrong we had to report it and they would have them fixed and so on. But we were out in that field all day and I tell you brother my hands became swollen, my ankles became swollen and tears ran down my eyes. But we stuck it. We stuck it.
Interviewer: These were night raids that the planes did.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: And you had to get them ready for the next evening.
DJ: For the next day.
Interviewer: So it was a bomber base.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: These, these where I was was chiefly on fighters.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Chiefly fighters. The interesting thing about it was in, was it August? But D-Day. We [unclear] for D-Day but then early in the morning droves after droves of aeroplanes were going south. So we asked what was happening and the person in charge of us told that they were over to France. Over to France to bomb the Germans who were the enemy at the end of the day and you could hide from the sun with the amount of planes that went over in different sections for the day. They were going, going and coming. Going and coming. And so the English guy who was in charge of us told us, he said, Jamaicans, he said, ‘Darkies, you’ll soon go home. The war will soon be over. You see those planes there? They are going to kill the Germans and you’ll soon go home.’ So we felt glad [laughs] and not long after the Germans, the Germans —
Interviewer: Surrendered.
DJ: Surrendered. But then we had the Japanese to deal with after that. But they didn’t bother us very much. Their job was to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki and they also surrendered but all in all we were glad we were able to serve because the menfolk most of them were out in the war and we had to stay at home on the ground and to do our service. And they did so very well so that during the war we had all the respect of the public.
Interviewer: The English public.
DJ: Yes. And so —
Interviewer: You were well received by them.
DJ: Yeah. Well received by them. Especially during the war and when the war was over there were little changes here and there.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: I think they feel like now these people can go home now you know and you could see a little change in not all the people but some of the people you know. I had several runnings in with them so, you know I remember after the war we were still in the RAF and still serving. Clearing up the mess and all that kind of thing. Interestingly I had, I had about twenty or thirty German soldiers, prisoners of war to take care of you know.
Interviewer: Working for you.
DJ: Yes. For instance there would be in the station, you know they called them NAAFI. You know the NAAFI where they had, you could buy food and sell sweets and so on etcetera and you’d have your billiard table and different games played in the NAAFI. So we had these Germans there to clear up the mess and clean up the place and I had to see that they did it, you know. Of course, we spent a good time in the Royal Air Force after the war and we saw these prisoners were there. Sometimes I’m in charge of Germans, sometimes I was in charge of Italians. I remember one incident a German said to me, he said, ‘Jonesy. Jonesy. Lend me your uniform. I want to go to the, I would like to go to the cinema.’ You know. ‘If they see me in this uniform they will know that I’m a prisoner.’ Some guy. ‘I could never ever do a thing like that. I mean I give it to you the next thing I know you’ve gone to Germany.’ Nice guy but you know you had to keep your head or they would trick you, you know.
Interviewer: What was the attitude of the Germans towards you as a West Indian? Were they —
DJ: They were quite civil you know. They were quite civil. They were quite civil. Some of them I don’t know if it was pretence but some of them sort of wanted a war. They want a fight, you know. But you know they had to do. There was no way to do what they were told to do so but they were human like us and quite quite [unclear] as far as [unclear]
Interviewer: What about the attitude of the regular non-commissioned officers —
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: In the RAF towards West Indians?
DJ: Yes. They were quite good. Quite. I didn’t find much fault with them you know but now and again as I said after the war now and again you would find one or two making sneers at you. I mean one instance where we were at the NAAFI loading a truck with some some goods and I was a bit tired of doing it. I didn’t feel it was my job to be doing it and I, you know kind of sulk and trying to show that I disapproved of the situation and one guy, one of these guys said, ‘Look, darkie. When I was in your country I’d probably, I’d have been speaking African. When I was in your country I see some animals like you run up a tree and jump in a truck.’ And so, yes, I didn’t answer it because sometimes when you answer you get the worse of it you know and little things like that. And sometimes you’d go to a dance in the village and girls there you know we being good dancers the girls flocked to us. The guys would disapprove you know. Probably want to fight or something but outside incident. It didn’t occur very often. I didn’t sort of blame them for it, you know. I remember one day in London we were on holidays and we were by the lake. I can’t think of the park now. [unclear] are there.
Interviewer: St James. Hyde Park.
DJ: Hyde Park. And there was, there was a lady and her little daughter watching the swans on the lake but the girl wasn’t interested in the swan. She was looking at me. I was feeding them and she said, ‘Mummy, mummy look at that. Look at that thing there. Mummy. Mummy look at him.’ But mummy wouldn’t say anything so to prevent any more embarrassment I moved away. ‘Mummy, the thing moved. The thing moved.’ [laughs] I thought, you know, she’s only a child so she had probably never seen a black person before and so you know. Little things like that but otherwise quite enjoyable.
Interviewer: I know there were a number of marriages between—
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: West Indian —
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: RAF personnel and English women.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: Did you know of any? Did you have friends who married?
DJ: Yes. Yes. Yes. I know two or three of them I know who got married. I was in a line to but I wrote home and mum said, ‘No. Never. Don’t do that.’ She said no. and I agreed with her too. I didn’t pursue it. But I had friends who did it and quite successful. Quite successful. One came out here and ran for parliament and as matter of fact one who married an English lady he came out here, ran for parliament and was successful. He died suddenly and his two sons are members of parliament right now.
Interviewer: What are their names?
DJ: [Piert]
Interviewer: [Piert]. Ok.
DJ: [Piert.] Yes. His two sons are members of parliament right now. They live in Mandeville.
Interviewer: Right. What was, what was the attitude in the Service towards marriages like that? Was there an attitude or did they just accept it?
DJ: You mean the —
Interviewer: The RAF.
DJ: RAF service. Well, I don’t think they interfered. I don’t think they interfered at all. I never heard of any instance in which such marriages were prohibited, you know. They didn’t interfere with that aspect of their lives at all.
Interviewer: Ok. What about the relationship between ground crew and air crew? Particularly West Indian aircrew. Was there conflict? Hostility? Jealousy?
DJ: There again now all the camps that I worked, that I was on I did not come in contact with the aircrew as such. I mean when, you know most of them the men that I came in contact with were Englishmen. Those who flew the aeroplanes. I never came across any coloured person at all. I never came across it. Probably there are others who met Jamaicans or other West Indians at other camps but what I understand is that once you are away from home and you are the minority in another country is how they [unclear] between the West Indians except for one or two cocky ones.
Interviewer: Most West Indians would stick together.
DJ: Stick together.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Most of them would stick together.
Interviewer: How much were you [pause] you said other people pulled together. How much were you told about the progress of the war? How much did you know about what was happening? What the future held. Success or failures.
DJ: We were told very little. Very little was coming through to us. I spent my time doing the job. Not even much of newspaper reports. I don’t remember getting any newspaper in the, in our billets and I don’t remember getting, hearing much radio reports either. As I said before only when D-Day came and things were progressing well we were told that things were. That the war was going well. I don’t know if the other fellas heard what was taking place. Then after the war there was a Victory Parade you know which was held in London. That was something to witness. We had to go down to London and sleep overnight in the streets and we were well looked after. People who were camping out in the streets fed us with tea and cakes and cookies and we were well looked after camping out in the streets the night before they did the Victory Parade. Then when it started it lasted for a long time. That was quite something. A spectacular thing that went by you know. [unclear] And we never came much in contact with the American forces. They were simply by themselves somewhere else you know. The Americans came into the war sometime before we went there and they made their contributions too but we were not keen on mixing with the Americans because we knew what they were like.
Interviewer: In terms of —?
DJ: You know, relationships.
Interviewer: Racism.
DJ: Racism.
Interviewer: So the Americans in your view were much worse than the British.
DJ: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. We were British subjects so [laughs] so we thought. Oh dear. Yes.
Interviewer: Ok. Well going back to your time at an operational air base how often did you see damaged aircraft coming in? Aircraft which had been shot up.
DJ: You know quite a few and we missed a few, some too. Some never came back you know. [unclear] you didn’t. You serviced that aircraft and like you lost something dear to you you know. Some came back shot up and couldn’t go back. But most of them that came back we were able to keep going.
Interviewer: Right.
DJ: Most of them.
Interviewer: Did you know the aircrews that didn’t come back? Or were they just [unclear]
DJ: Oh yes. that we did because you know they came and although they, although they were, they belonged to a plane, this plane was theirs but they had different quarters. You know, the aircrew had different quarters so we didn’t mix much with them as such. We serviced the aircraft that came in and they were off. They were back in the aircraft and they went back, you know.
Interviewer: So you, in fact you missed the aircraft more than you missed the aircrew.
DJ: Many times. Yes. Many times. Many times.
Interviewer: Did you ever feel that you would rather have been flying or fighting in France than doing the work you were doing? Or were you relieved that that you had the role you did have?
DJ: I really, you know [pause] I think I felt safer where I was at the time, you know. I felt safer.
Interviewer: And you were sensible enough at that age to appreciate —
DJ: Yes. Oh yes.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: What scared us most was the V bombs. We didn’t have much of the actual air bombings. When we got there the air bombings were generally over. Then they were sending these V bombs over and I remember when they come over sometime they come and explode and you’d not hear them coming because they come at speed. The sound comes after they arrive you know. So we duck when we hear the sound coming after it had exploded because it comes at speed and these bombs were devastating but they never really troubled our camp very much. London got it heavily. Coventry got it heavy. But —
Interviewer: Did you hear them going over?
DJ: Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: What did they sound like?
DJ: Just like a, you know a singing sound [noise] you know. A sing song passing over.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: And I remember one time I was in London and the air raid went, the air signal for the air raid went and I was in a hostel. So I jumped up to go to the air raid shelter and when I jumped and I looked not a soul got up. I was the only person getting up. I said, ‘Why was this?’ They were so accustomed to it that nobody moved. They just went back to bed. Yeah. You know. It was like that. But otherwise you weren’t scared otherwise you know. Once you were in it you are in it. You can’t do a thing about it so you just stick it out you know. Alright. So —
Interviewer: Ok. That’s [pause]
DJ: [unclear] anything after the war.
Interviewer: Well, I was going to ask yes after the war now. What did you do and when did you arrive at the, you say you stayed in the RAF for a period of time. Tell me about that.
DJ: Yes, I stayed in the RAF and —
[recording interrupted]
Interviewer: So you were saying you started going to night school.
DJ: Yes. I went to technical, a local Technical College and passed all the exams there and then applied for the [unclear] option. I went to do further training in England rather than demob and go home. So I chose to stay in England for further training. So some of us went to university. Some of us went to colleges. I went to a Teacher’s College in Oakley. A Teacher’s College for men in Cheltenham.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Cheltenham. Yes. And did a two-year course there and graduated as a teacher and then after that I was demobbed and sent home. So after the war we didn’t, you were in camp for some time being mostly you know cleaning up and lazing around. That was [unclear] until you were called up for this extra training. And then we spent this time in college. And after we finished we were demobbed and sent home. You mentioned something about [a mutiny] on a ship. I wasn’t on that ship.
Interviewer: Did you hear about it?
DJ: I heard about it. It was, it was something. It was not a nice act. I don’t know what caused it but the fellas actually rebelled. For what I’m not quite sure. I’m not quite sure but it was not a pretty picture as far as I understood it. There might have been some racial business. I don’t know.
Interviewer: Among the crew or among officers?
DJ: It was [provocateurs] [unclear]
Interviewer: Dudley Thompson defended the accused in the court.
DJ: I think so. Yes. Yes. Yes. Dudley Thompson. Of course, he was, he was a pilot.
Interviewer: That’s right.
DJ: Dudley Thompson. Yes. Or aircrew. Whatever he was, you know.
Interviewer: It was a court martial was it?
DJ: I’m not so sure. I’m not so sure. I’m not so sure but when the boys came back the boys who came back it opened a floodgate for immigrants. They returned to England.
Interviewer: After coming back here.
DJ: Yes. A lot of them returned to England. Followed by relatives.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: And it was a trek to England doing after that.
Interviewer: This was because of the experience.
DJ: The experience they had. They were ready to pass it on to their relatives and been attracted to their Mother Country.
Interviewer: Really?
DJ: In so much that after that you know they used these West Indians in England to [pause] a lot of jobs you know. A lot of jobs. Transportation. The Underground trains and the buses. Factories. I didn’t go back. I didn’t go back. I went back some years after to do further training at Oxford and studied at Oxford for administration. So, but I promised to leave there. Too cold. Too cold.
Interviewer: Was the British government encouraging people to go back at that time?
DJ: Yes. Yes. It relieved the strain on the city. Right. People were migrating to the city a whole lot and this whether we have people helping the job situation find their [unclear] that was happening at the time. So they had no objection to people coming back.
Interviewer: That’s the government here.
DJ: The government here.
Interviewer: What about the government on the other side?
DJ: I think they received them. Yes. They received them. I believe they might have noticed the quality of the service that they gave, they gave during the war and to have them back there to help reconstruct after the war was appreciated.
Interviewer: Of course, it was the same government anyway at that time.
DJ: Yes. Yes. That appreciated [unclear]
Interviewer: How about the attitude of people back home towards you? Did they recognise your contribution or did you get criticism from people saying why did you go and fight someone else’s war?
DJ: I don’t think that we were totally satisfied with the government attitude to us. I think they could have recognised us much more than they did. What I know is that the people, they were glad to see their offspring back. Their relatives come back safely. Most, most of us came back safely and I know they were extremely glad to have them back but the recognition that we think that should have been given by officials I don’t think we got what we expected. When I came back I had to, I had to sort of find our niche you know. I wasn’t sort of given any special help or so but having done a course there and I came back I had to fight my own battle to get a job and so on. They had this thing called the Royal Air Force Association. Some boys joined up but then again I didn’t join because I felt a bit [unclear] so I didn’t bother to join then. But I suppose that Association helped quite a few people to get back in the group somehow. But on the whole I still feel that that was done for a purpose. For the contribution we made abroad.
Interviewer: What about recognition from, apart from the government contribution recognition from Jamaicans?
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: Yes, in a way. Well, to be honest with you I can’t think of any great effort for the time to say, ‘Well, these are our heroes and we are doing this for them.’ I don’t know if when those who came before those who were left back in training, they got an extra two years in training there if any of those who came back after the war received the same situation. I’m not sure. I don’t know. I didn’t hear.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: But we came back on our own and had to fight our own battle for recognition.
Interviewer: But how do you feel now about your decision to go and fight what some people would say was a white man’s war? Somebody else’s war. How do you respond to the younger generation today who would make the statement that they wouldn’t go. It wouldn’t be their war.
DJ: Well, you mean how I feel now on reflection or —
Interviewer: At any time.
DJ: Yes. I wouldn’t advise them to go to war. I wouldn’t go to war. Then I felt it was a duty to go and help your brother abroad as such because you were loyal to the country. England. We were the subject of England and we all sang like, ‘Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves,’ you know. It was a powerful country. A good country. People were good and you go and fight. Then I felt that I was doing a service. But now I don’t feel that countries that make war you know you should really put yourself in danger to go and help because in the long run you don’t seem to benefit from it as such you know. I think I would be a conscientious objector right now, you know. So I wouldn’t encourage anyone to really go to war and help.
Interviewer: That’s really it. Unless there is anything you wanted to tell me about [unclear]
DJ: I really don’t you know. There are little details here and there but I’ve said most of it really you know. I haven’t regretted going. I’ve not regretted going because it opened a wide experience for me. At the time I wouldn’t have been able to have travelled. I wouldn’t have been able to see another country at that time and the experience again has served me well. Very well indeed you know. Being a soldier as it were you were, you were more precise in your doings. As a matter of fact, I have run-in with my wife sometimes because I’m not satisfied where time is concerned.
Interviewer: Yes.
DJ: You know I believe that time should be strictly adhered to and don’t take any quarters with that. But apart from that I think it was good experience on the whole. Good experience. But when you look at the dangers that could be now for war at this time you know I think different technology and different war implements and you know these various things that they have now I don’t think that I would want to go to war. Not at all. You said you were in the war.
Interviewer: No. No. I’m in the Defence Force here.
DJ: Defence Force here. In Jamaica.
Interviewer: I was [unclear] operations. I didn’t have to fight a war. I don’t wish to.
DJ: Yes. Yes. Yes.
[recording paused]
DJ: There was this broad expanse of ships as far as your eyes could see. Yeah. Ships, soldiers on them, guns on them, aeroplanes on them. Cargo piled high. We called them blimps. I don’t know what blimps were.
Interviewer: The barrage balloons.
DJ: Yes. About warships about you know. When you go up on deck and view the whole situation this is great.
Yeah.
You know. This is great. This is great. And then as you approached England the band of ships became smaller and smaller and then drifted off to different ports.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Different. Different ports and I didn’t know that we had landed. We had gone [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: Yes I didn’t know at all until we docked you know. And as I said before these dancing girls were there awaiting us.
Interviewer: English girls.
DJ: Yes.
DJ: Oh yes. Please do. That’s alright.
Interviewer: What, what was life like? What was everyday life like in Jamaica? Perhaps we could start with where you were born, went to school and everything. Could you describe your memories of that time and how it differs from today?
DJ: Yes. I was born in the parish of Manchester, a very countrified section of Jamaica. I had a lot of [five brothers] and you had to work hard for a living and there I spent my days with my parents and my brothers. Went to school there. my father was the headmaster. [unclear] there. It was alright for me to go there. After [unclear] the bright lights etcetera. So after having passed what was called the Jamaica Local Examination which qualified us to enter teacher’s college on this evidence [unclear] in another parish near Kingston. When I got there I tried to enter St Michael’s College for Teachers and I failed the first examination and I went out to work. That was more or less the beginning of my career in Jamaica. Finally I was teaching with my brother in Kingston on occasion and there to my astonishment we were interviewed by officers recruiting people for the Royal Air Force. War had begun. The war was on and we had a lot of [unclear] and we wanted to do something for the Mother Country as it was called then. A lot of Jamaicans regarded England as the Mother Country and they would do anything to serve and to help. So quite a few of us volunteered for the Royal Air Force. Saying that yourself and [unclear] To our surprise some weeks after [the same officers came back for us] and as it was [unclear] as it were never allowed us to go back home. They took us in army trucks and took us to Palisadoes. That’s where they had the recruiting [unclear] weeks.
Interviewer: A bit earlier you spoke about being at school and your father being the headmaster. What was it like having a father as headmaster of the school?
DJ: Well, I think it was just a peculiar situation because my father was a very strict person. Many times I would notice sometimes he would want to flog another child but he would flog me first [laughs] and then he’d proceed to flog the other child so that it wouldn’t sort of, it would seem that he was being impartial. But he was a very good teacher. Excellent. Many of the things that helped me on in life later on came from him. Came from my dad [unclear] We’d notice, we realised that we had to be honest, upright if you like and we should work hard to move on. Not to be jealous of other people’s professions etcetera etcetera. So there is the value [unclear] Soon after that as I said before [unclear]
Interviewer: The whole family.
DJ: No. No. No.
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: One family. As a matter of fact it was [unclear] The rest, the rest of the family had already gone to various parts. They all became teachers and supply. [unclear] So they had all gone to various schools. Teachers. I’d have been the last one recorded. Got a job with [unclear] [one of the banks before] and then I got a job in Kingston as I said before and it was I was recruited into the RAF.
Interviewer: Ok. How typical would you say [unclear] was the discipline and the quality of education that you were getting [unclear] at the time or were you [unclear]
DJ: No. I was not privileged really. Some. I was not privileged in any way because you were not accepted in the [unclear] etcetera you know. You had most of your education at ten or eleven and then if you excelled at it then you could go to college. So, [unclear] the village had to yourself.
Interviewer: Ok. So it was most likely your generation would have access to that education.
DJ: Providing you qualified. Yes. Do you want me to go on? [pause] Yes, so when the [paused] you crossed to Palisadoes. We went by [unclear] most people did not have time to go back home so my parents did not know that I had gone to join the Royal Air Force. While at Palisadoes I did a bit of training there. We met a lot of other West Indians who had come from the smaller islands of Jamaica. You did some training for about two weeks. What they called square bashing. Marching up and down and doing various war tactics and so on. Then you were marched down Palisadoes [unclear] and some of us over this period of action wanted to go back home and while marching past Palisadoes fell to the ground and were sick and wanted to go back home. All they did was grab us up and put us in a truck and go back to Palisadoes. We had no [pause] you could not go back home. From the Palisadoes we were put on a ship called the SS Cuba which seemed to be a converted cargo ship.it was built in [pause] I don’t recall but it was [unclear] you see. It was small and we had to sleep in hammocks in the back of the ship and it was [unclear] that part was nice. [unclear] at night. . The [ ] part was nice. And then they were dashing to pick up the rest of the people from Trinidad, Barbados. Over a thousand of us.
Interviewer: And they were all West Indians.
DJ: All West Indians. All West Indian. At that [unclear] to America. We had a big job there to make our association with these different fellows from different islands. They had different customs through the Caribbean. But we managed and in time we had a good camaraderie then. So on this ship which we called the SS Cuba as I said before [unclear] if you did not like it you wouldn’t be happy there. You were anxious to get to where you were going. We didn’t know exactly where we were going. We were not told. But after a few days of sailing we noticed that we were escorted by two vessels, slow black ships [unclear] west Atlantic. After a few days we discovered that we were heading for America and we landed in Virginia and spent two weeks in a camp called Patrick Henry in Virginia. This experience was [unclear]
Interviewer: Arriving at Fort Patrick Henry.
DJ: At Fort Patrick and we were welcomed by the Americans [because it was war] Especially the range of eating. We were well fed. [unclear] we had games and we had excursions around the area and we had, we didn’t do any training at all there. Just waiting for transportation. And then after two weeks of revelling in good food and good camaraderie with [unclear] and we went by train from there to New York. And from New York we sailed. I saw lights. It was a night. We were coming down the coast and we looked behind us and saw this object directly behind us. [unclear] We were still anxious to get to England so we took heart and we endured the Atlantic again and a few hours out of the harbour there was a glorious [unclear] Hundreds of ships in front of us, behind us and all around. Some [unclear] sometimes shooting their guns. A spectacular site to see the ones flying aeroplanes. You know [unclear] and we had aircraft above us, we had warships to the side of us and this glorious convoy going across the Atlantic.
Interviewer: What year was that? The date?
DJ: This was, I think it was June 1944. Just one year before the war ended.
Interviewer: Ok [unclear]
DJ: No. Not then. No. No. Not yet. I can remember one night we heard deep sounding gunshot. Explosions. We didn’t know what it was but when it came [unclear] you were told [unclear] a loudspeaker [unclear] a submarine. We did not see the last of the ships. [unclear] they had submarines [unclear] escorts. [unclear] into Liverpool. At Liverpool we were well received. We were met on the pier by some dancing girls [laughs] That was supposed to cheer our hearts up. We came off and what struck us most was the cold. It was summer but it was really cold. [unclear] from the hot zones.
Interviewer: Had they given you cold weather clothing?
DJ: We got a coat but we didn’t get issued with a [unclear] as yet.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: But you see travelling.
Interviewer: Right.
DJ: But you had at least your coat [unclear] Then we travelled by train all night from [unclear] Liverpool straight across the country to Filey on the eastern shore and then we camped at a place in Filey. A camp at Filey. [unclear] Then in the morning when we were [unclear] we were issued with blankets, [suits] more coats, Long Johns [laughs] I don’t know if you know about them [laughs] and anything to make us as comfortable as possible. [unclear] We were in what they called billets. Long huts with about might be up to twenty four men in one.
Interviewer: Barrack rooms.
DJ: Barrack rooms. Twelve on each side with some coal stores in the middle [unclear]
Interviewer: If you could tell me a bit about that group. What people were saying and thinking. You said about people wanting to run away once they realised they were actually going to war.
DJ: Sure.
Interviewer: Whether it had changed. Whether there were still people who wanted to go home. What was it like. What were the men like?
Well —
Were there any characters?
DJ: I’d say dispersible because that came afterwards. This first group was a grand mixture of rats. Some rich, some [unclear] some were medically fit [ ] a grand mixture of that lot and you were all anxious to get into action. I didn’t pick up any fear around abouts there. As the days and weeks progressed it did seem to be going quite well. We, we began training soon after. We had about two or three days rest and then we began training. We were divided into groups under the leadership of —
[recording paused]
And these were English men. English men. So our first group of men was one battalion and this battalion were added to different groups and started training we had to do the training as a soldier did. The exact things a soldier learned. We got our guns, we got our helmets, we got our bayonets and we got our [unclear] [laughs] but we had to train as a soldier because they didn’t have soldiers to guard the camp and we as ground crew in the Royal Air Force had to guard our own camp. So we got the exact training of a soldier. Different war tactics and so on. It was quite rigid, hard training because you know we had to go through some form of mock wars you know. Field craft and all the different aspects of training for a soldier. So after we finished that we had our what you call a passing out. What do you call it?
Interviewer: Parade?
DJ: What’s that?
Interviewer: Parade.
DJ: A parade. But before that, before that after we finished the training as a soldier we were, we went through the next phase of training in different skills. Some of us became wireless operators, radio control, like tower control whatever they called it you know.
Interviewer: Oh, air traffic control.
DJ: Air traffic controllers. Some of us went, some went to the Transport Section where they became drivers and motor mechanics. Others were aeroplane fitters. We had to learn to service the aeroplane when they came in from, from flights abroad. Checked the aeroplane, checked the wings, checked the wheels, checked the engine and those of us who did wiring would check the intercom inside the plane. Yes. So we had different skills to do.
Interviewer: How were those groups selected? Was it on the basis of the training you had before or just —
DJ: I’m not sure. I’m not sure how they really did it. I would have found myself in a group of wireless operators. I don’t know exactly how they went about it.
Interviewer: But you were now basically a wireless [fitter?]
DJ: No.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: No. It was very interesting because I had to do Morse Code you know and we had to learn all about the construction of the, of the wireless and how it was, how it operates but those wireless implements were quite primitive. Quite different from now when I am looking back.
Interviewer: How did they look then? Very modern and state of the art at the time.
DJ: No. They were big things with you know big tubes and I don’t know.
Interviewer: So the first time you saw one did you think this looks primitive?
DJ: No. I didn’t know. No. No. Then.
Interviewer: Then.
DJ: Then. I’m only thinking in terms of now.
Interviewer: But then when you looked at it then.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: At that time.
DJ: At that time. At that time, yes. But we had to learn how to operate it or if anything went wrong with it we would try and do the best you can with it. But there were others who were trained to repair it.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: So if we are out in the field with the aircraft if you went into the aircraft and we found one of these wireless defective and we couldn’t fix it then you would take it out, take it to the workshop and pick up another one and put it in the aeroplane. So you had different skills for different, different boys had different skills all over. So when the square bashing was over and the skills training was over we had this passing out. But I forgot to tell you that a month after we landed or so another group came. Another thousand came. So we were about over two thousand West Indians in that camp at Filey. Filey camp is a camp that, it was, it was a holiday camp. A Butlins camp. A holiday camp that was turned into a camp for the Royal Air Force people. So after all that training we were ready now for operations. So those who did different skills, some went, were transferred from that camp now to various camps all over England. Motor mechanics went somewhere. Air control people went somewhere else. The aeroplane fitters went somewhere else. Wireless operators went somewhere else. I went to a place called Church Lawford in Warwickshire. Another camp in Warwickshire and I also went to another one in Wiltshire. I can’t remember the name of it. That’s in the south of England near to Bristol. There we had to do our job and my own experience is that I enjoyed it but when it came to winter, during the winter and we had to spend all day out on the airfield because when the aeroplanes come in from their raids abroad we had to get into them quickly and check them over and if there was anything wrong we had to report it and they would have them fixed and so on. But we were out in that field all day and I tell you brother my hands became swollen, my ankles became swollen and tears ran down my eyes. But we stuck it. We stuck it.
Interviewer: These were night raids that the planes did.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: And you had to get them ready for the next evening.
DJ: For the next day.
Interviewer: So it was a bomber base.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: These, these where I was was chiefly on fighters.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Chiefly fighters. The interesting thing about it was in, was it August? But D-Day. We [unclear] for D-Day but then early in the morning droves after droves of aeroplanes were going south. So we asked what was happening and the person in charge of us told that they were over to France. Over to France to bomb the Germans who were the enemy at the end of the day and you could hide from the sun with the amount of planes that went over in different sections for the day. They were going, going and coming. Going and coming. And so the English guy who was in charge of us told us, he said, Jamaicans, he said, ‘Darkies, you’ll soon go home. The war will soon be over. You see those planes there? They are going to kill the Germans and you’ll soon go home.’ So we felt glad [laughs] and not long after the Germans, the Germans —
Interviewer: Surrendered.
DJ: Surrendered. But then we had the Japanese to deal with after that. But they didn’t bother us very much. Their job was to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki and they also surrendered but all in all we were glad we were able to serve because the menfolk most of them were out in the war and we had to stay at home on the ground and to do our service. And they did so very well so that during the war we had all the respect of the public.
Interviewer: The English public.
DJ: Yes. And so —
Interviewer: You were well received by them.
DJ: Yeah. Well received by them. Especially during the war and when the war was over there were little changes here and there.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: I think they feel like now these people can go home now you know and you could see a little change in not all the people but some of the people you know. I had several runnings in with them so, you know I remember after the war we were still in the RAF and still serving. Clearing up the mess and all that kind of thing. Interestingly I had, I had about twenty or thirty German soldiers, prisoners of war to take care of you know.
Interviewer: Working for you.
DJ: Yes. For instance there would be in the station, you know they called them NAAFI. You know the NAAFI where they had, you could buy food and sell sweets and so on etcetera and you’d have your billiard table and different games played in the NAAFI. So we had these Germans there to clear up the mess and clean up the place and I had to see that they did it, you know. Of course, we spent a good time in the Royal Air Force after the war and we saw these prisoners were there. Sometimes I’m in charge of Germans, sometimes I was in charge of Italians. I remember one incident a German said to me, he said, ‘Jonesy. Jonesy. Lend me your uniform. I want to go to the, I would like to go to the cinema.’ You know. ‘If they see me in this uniform they will know that I’m a prisoner.’ Some guy. ‘I could never ever do a thing like that. I mean I give it to you the next thing I know you’ve gone to Germany.’ Nice guy but you know you had to keep your head or they would trick you, you know.
Interviewer: What was the attitude of the Germans towards you as a West Indian? Were they —
DJ: They were quite civil you know. They were quite civil. They were quite civil. Some of them I don’t know if it was pretence but some of them sort of wanted a war. They want a fight, you know. But you know they had to do. There was no way to do what they were told to do so but they were human like us and quite quite [unclear] as far as [unclear]
Interviewer: What about the attitude of the regular non-commissioned officers —
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: In the RAF towards West Indians?
DJ: Yes. They were quite good. Quite. I didn’t find much fault with them you know but now and again as I said after the war now and again you would find one or two making sneers at you. I mean one instance where we were at the NAAFI loading a truck with some some goods and I was a bit tired of doing it. I didn’t feel it was my job to be doing it and I, you know kind of sulk and trying to show that I disapproved of the situation and one guy, one of these guys said, ‘Look, darkie. When I was in your country I’d probably, I’d have been speaking African. When I was in your country I see some animals like you run up a tree and jump in a truck.’ And so, yes, I didn’t answer it because sometimes when you answer you get the worse of it you know and little things like that. And sometimes you’d go to a dance in the village and girls there you know we being good dancers the girls flocked to us. The guys would disapprove you know. Probably want to fight or something but outside incident. It didn’t occur very often. I didn’t sort of blame them for it, you know. I remember one day in London we were on holidays and we were by the lake. I can’t think of the park now. [unclear] are there.
Interviewer: St James. Hyde Park.
DJ: Hyde Park. And there was, there was a lady and her little daughter watching the swans on the lake but the girl wasn’t interested in the swan. She was looking at me. I was feeding them and she said, ‘Mummy, mummy look at that. Look at that thing there. Mummy. Mummy look at him.’ But mummy wouldn’t say anything so to prevent any more embarrassment I moved away. ‘Mummy, the thing moved. The thing moved.’ [laughs] I thought, you know, she’s only a child so she had probably never seen a black person before and so you know. Little things like that but otherwise quite enjoyable.
Interviewer: I know there were a number of marriages between—
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: West Indian —
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: RAF personnel and English women.
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: Did you know of any? Did you have friends who married?
DJ: Yes. Yes. Yes. I know two or three of them I know who got married. I was in a line to but I wrote home and mum said, ‘No. Never. Don’t do that.’ She said no. and I agreed with her too. I didn’t pursue it. But I had friends who did it and quite successful. Quite successful. One came out here and ran for parliament and as matter of fact one who married an English lady he came out here, ran for parliament and was successful. He died suddenly and his two sons are members of parliament right now.
Interviewer: What are their names?
DJ: [Piert]
Interviewer: [Piert]. Ok.
DJ: [Piert.] Yes. His two sons are members of parliament right now. They live in Mandeville.
Interviewer: Right. What was, what was the attitude in the Service towards marriages like that? Was there an attitude or did they just accept it?
DJ: You mean the —
Interviewer: The RAF.
DJ: RAF service. Well, I don’t think they interfered. I don’t think they interfered at all. I never heard of any instance in which such marriages were prohibited, you know. They didn’t interfere with that aspect of their lives at all.
Interviewer: Ok. What about the relationship between ground crew and air crew? Particularly West Indian aircrew. Was there conflict? Hostility? Jealousy?
DJ: There again now all the camps that I worked, that I was on I did not come in contact with the aircrew as such. I mean when, you know most of them the men that I came in contact with were Englishmen. Those who flew the aeroplanes. I never came across any coloured person at all. I never came across it. Probably there are others who met Jamaicans or other West Indians at other camps but what I understand is that once you are away from home and you are the minority in another country is how they [unclear] between the West Indians except for one or two cocky ones.
Interviewer: Most West Indians would stick together.
DJ: Stick together.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Most of them would stick together.
Interviewer: How much were you [pause] you said other people pulled together. How much were you told about the progress of the war? How much did you know about what was happening? What the future held. Success or failures.
DJ: We were told very little. Very little was coming through to us. I spent my time doing the job. Not even much of newspaper reports. I don’t remember getting any newspaper in the, in our billets and I don’t remember getting, hearing much radio reports either. As I said before only when D-Day came and things were progressing well we were told that things were. That the war was going well. I don’t know if the other fellas heard what was taking place. Then after the war there was a Victory Parade you know which was held in London. That was something to witness. We had to go down to London and sleep overnight in the streets and we were well looked after. People who were camping out in the streets fed us with tea and cakes and cookies and we were well looked after camping out in the streets the night before they did the Victory Parade. Then when it started it lasted for a long time. That was quite something. A spectacular thing that went by you know. [unclear] And we never came much in contact with the American forces. They were simply by themselves somewhere else you know. The Americans came into the war sometime before we went there and they made their contributions too but we were not keen on mixing with the Americans because we knew what they were like.
Interviewer: In terms of —?
DJ: You know, relationships.
Interviewer: Racism.
DJ: Racism.
Interviewer: So the Americans in your view were much worse than the British.
DJ: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. We were British subjects so [laughs] so we thought. Oh dear. Yes.
Interviewer: Ok. Well going back to your time at an operational air base how often did you see damaged aircraft coming in? Aircraft which had been shot up.
DJ: You know quite a few and we missed a few, some too. Some never came back you know. [unclear] you didn’t. You serviced that aircraft and like you lost something dear to you you know. Some came back shot up and couldn’t go back. But most of them that came back we were able to keep going.
Interviewer: Right.
DJ: Most of them.
Interviewer: Did you know the aircrews that didn’t come back? Or were they just [unclear]
DJ: Oh yes. that we did because you know they came and although they, although they were, they belonged to a plane, this plane was theirs but they had different quarters. You know, the aircrew had different quarters so we didn’t mix much with them as such. We serviced the aircraft that came in and they were off. They were back in the aircraft and they went back, you know.
Interviewer: So you, in fact you missed the aircraft more than you missed the aircrew.
DJ: Many times. Yes. Many times. Many times.
Interviewer: Did you ever feel that you would rather have been flying or fighting in France than doing the work you were doing? Or were you relieved that that you had the role you did have?
DJ: I really, you know [pause] I think I felt safer where I was at the time, you know. I felt safer.
Interviewer: And you were sensible enough at that age to appreciate —
DJ: Yes. Oh yes.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: What scared us most was the V bombs. We didn’t have much of the actual air bombings. When we got there the air bombings were generally over. Then they were sending these V bombs over and I remember when they come over sometime they come and explode and you’d not hear them coming because they come at speed. The sound comes after they arrive you know. So we duck when we hear the sound coming after it had exploded because it comes at speed and these bombs were devastating but they never really troubled our camp very much. London got it heavily. Coventry got it heavy. But —
Interviewer: Did you hear them going over?
DJ: Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: What did they sound like?
DJ: Just like a, you know a singing sound [noise] you know. A sing song passing over.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: And I remember one time I was in London and the air raid went, the air signal for the air raid went and I was in a hostel. So I jumped up to go to the air raid shelter and when I jumped and I looked not a soul got up. I was the only person getting up. I said, ‘Why was this?’ They were so accustomed to it that nobody moved. They just went back to bed. Yeah. You know. It was like that. But otherwise you weren’t scared otherwise you know. Once you were in it you are in it. You can’t do a thing about it so you just stick it out you know. Alright. So —
Interviewer: Ok. That’s [pause]
DJ: [unclear] anything after the war.
Interviewer: Well, I was going to ask yes after the war now. What did you do and when did you arrive at the, you say you stayed in the RAF for a period of time. Tell me about that.
DJ: Yes, I stayed in the RAF and —
[recording interrupted]
Interviewer: So you were saying you started going to night school.
DJ: Yes. I went to technical, a local Technical College and passed all the exams there and then applied for the [unclear] option. I went to do further training in England rather than demob and go home. So I chose to stay in England for further training. So some of us went to university. Some of us went to colleges. I went to a Teacher’s College in Oakley. A Teacher’s College for men in Cheltenham.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Cheltenham. Yes. And did a two-year course there and graduated as a teacher and then after that I was demobbed and sent home. So after the war we didn’t, you were in camp for some time being mostly you know cleaning up and lazing around. That was [unclear] until you were called up for this extra training. And then we spent this time in college. And after we finished we were demobbed and sent home. You mentioned something about [a mutiny] on a ship. I wasn’t on that ship.
Interviewer: Did you hear about it?
DJ: I heard about it. It was, it was something. It was not a nice act. I don’t know what caused it but the fellas actually rebelled. For what I’m not quite sure. I’m not quite sure but it was not a pretty picture as far as I understood it. There might have been some racial business. I don’t know.
Interviewer: Among the crew or among officers?
DJ: It was [provocateurs] [unclear]
Interviewer: Dudley Thompson defended the accused in the court.
DJ: I think so. Yes. Yes. Yes. Dudley Thompson. Of course, he was, he was a pilot.
Interviewer: That’s right.
DJ: Dudley Thompson. Yes. Or aircrew. Whatever he was, you know.
Interviewer: It was a court martial was it?
DJ: I’m not so sure. I’m not so sure. I’m not so sure but when the boys came back the boys who came back it opened a floodgate for immigrants. They returned to England.
Interviewer: After coming back here.
DJ: Yes. A lot of them returned to England. Followed by relatives.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: And it was a trek to England doing after that.
Interviewer: This was because of the experience.
DJ: The experience they had. They were ready to pass it on to their relatives and been attracted to their Mother Country.
Interviewer: Really?
DJ: In so much that after that you know they used these West Indians in England to [pause] a lot of jobs you know. A lot of jobs. Transportation. The Underground trains and the buses. Factories. I didn’t go back. I didn’t go back. I went back some years after to do further training at Oxford and studied at Oxford for administration. So, but I promised to leave there. Too cold. Too cold.
Interviewer: Was the British government encouraging people to go back at that time?
DJ: Yes. Yes. It relieved the strain on the city. Right. People were migrating to the city a whole lot and this whether we have people helping the job situation find their [unclear] that was happening at the time. So they had no objection to people coming back.
Interviewer: That’s the government here.
DJ: The government here.
Interviewer: What about the government on the other side?
DJ: I think they received them. Yes. They received them. I believe they might have noticed the quality of the service that they gave, they gave during the war and to have them back there to help reconstruct after the war was appreciated.
Interviewer: Of course, it was the same government anyway at that time.
DJ: Yes. Yes. That appreciated [unclear]
Interviewer: How about the attitude of people back home towards you? Did they recognise your contribution or did you get criticism from people saying why did you go and fight someone else’s war?
DJ: I don’t think that we were totally satisfied with the government attitude to us. I think they could have recognised us much more than they did. What I know is that the people, they were glad to see their offspring back. Their relatives come back safely. Most, most of us came back safely and I know they were extremely glad to have them back but the recognition that we think that should have been given by officials I don’t think we got what we expected. When I came back I had to, I had to sort of find our niche you know. I wasn’t sort of given any special help or so but having done a course there and I came back I had to fight my own battle to get a job and so on. They had this thing called the Royal Air Force Association. Some boys joined up but then again I didn’t join because I felt a bit [unclear] so I didn’t bother to join then. But I suppose that Association helped quite a few people to get back in the group somehow. But on the whole I still feel that that was done for a purpose. For the contribution we made abroad.
Interviewer: What about recognition from, apart from the government contribution recognition from Jamaicans?
DJ: Yes.
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: Yes, in a way. Well, to be honest with you I can’t think of any great effort for the time to say, ‘Well, these are our heroes and we are doing this for them.’ I don’t know if when those who came before those who were left back in training, they got an extra two years in training there if any of those who came back after the war received the same situation. I’m not sure. I don’t know. I didn’t hear.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: But we came back on our own and had to fight our own battle for recognition.
Interviewer: But how do you feel now about your decision to go and fight what some people would say was a white man’s war? Somebody else’s war. How do you respond to the younger generation today who would make the statement that they wouldn’t go. It wouldn’t be their war.
DJ: Well, you mean how I feel now on reflection or —
Interviewer: At any time.
DJ: Yes. I wouldn’t advise them to go to war. I wouldn’t go to war. Then I felt it was a duty to go and help your brother abroad as such because you were loyal to the country. England. We were the subject of England and we all sang like, ‘Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves,’ you know. It was a powerful country. A good country. People were good and you go and fight. Then I felt that I was doing a service. But now I don’t feel that countries that make war you know you should really put yourself in danger to go and help because in the long run you don’t seem to benefit from it as such you know. I think I would be a conscientious objector right now, you know. So I wouldn’t encourage anyone to really go to war and help.
Interviewer: That’s really it. Unless there is anything you wanted to tell me about [unclear]
DJ: I really don’t you know. There are little details here and there but I’ve said most of it really you know. I haven’t regretted going. I’ve not regretted going because it opened a wide experience for me. At the time I wouldn’t have been able to have travelled. I wouldn’t have been able to see another country at that time and the experience again has served me well. Very well indeed you know. Being a soldier as it were you were, you were more precise in your doings. As a matter of fact, I have run-in with my wife sometimes because I’m not satisfied where time is concerned.
Interviewer: Yes.
DJ: You know I believe that time should be strictly adhered to and don’t take any quarters with that. But apart from that I think it was good experience on the whole. Good experience. But when you look at the dangers that could be now for war at this time you know I think different technology and different war implements and you know these various things that they have now I don’t think that I would want to go to war. Not at all. You said you were in the war.
Interviewer: No. No. I’m in the Defence Force here.
DJ: Defence Force here. In Jamaica.
Interviewer: I was [unclear] operations. I didn’t have to fight a war. I don’t wish to.
DJ: Yes. Yes. Yes.
[recording paused]
DJ: There was this broad expanse of ships as far as your eyes could see. Yeah. Ships, soldiers on them, guns on them, aeroplanes on them. Cargo piled high. We called them blimps. I don’t know what blimps were.
Interviewer: The barrage balloons.
DJ: Yes. About warships about you know. When you go up on deck and view the whole situation this is great.
Yeah.
You know. This is great. This is great. And then as you approached England the band of ships became smaller and smaller and then drifted off to different ports.
Interviewer: Ok.
DJ: Different. Different ports and I didn’t know that we had landed. We had gone [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
DJ: Yes I didn’t know at all until we docked you know. And as I said before these dancing girls were there awaiting us.
Interviewer: English girls.
DJ: Yes.
Collection
Citation
Johnson, M, “Interview with Donald Jones,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed June 14, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/39540.