2
25
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2283/47093/BCarterDACarterRv1.2.pdf
53c7b42bfe5ef280f58e586f638120f2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carter, Ronald
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ronald Carter (1924 - 2014, 1620578 Royal Air Force) and contains his biography, research, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a rear gunner with 44 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susan Margaret Perrow and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
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2021-12-06
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Carter, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Last of the Tail Gun Charlies
Description
An account of the resource
Biography of Warrant Officer Ronald Carter (1620578 Royal Air Force)
Creator
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David Carter
Temporal Coverage
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1941
1943-04
1944-03-30
1944-03-31
1945-01-19
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Nuremberg
Poland
Poland--Tychowo
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Photograph
Text. Personal research
Format
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49 page booklet
Conforms To
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Pending text-based transcription
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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BCarterDACarterRv1
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019
44 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
bombing of the Creil/St Leu d’Esserent V-1 storage areas (4/5 July 1944)
bombing of Toulouse (5/6 April 1944)
Caterpillar Club
crewing up
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
prisoner of war
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF Waddington
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
tactical support for Normandy troops
the long march
training
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/834/18873/YGeachDG1394781v2.2.pdf
60427241f61034da5e5899391012c1a2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Geach, David
D Geach
Description
An account of the resource
<a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/218400/"></a>52 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer David Geach (1394781 Royal Air Force) and contains his diaries, correspondence, photographs of his crew, his log book, cuttings and items relating to being a prisoner of war. After training in Canada, he flew operations as a bomb aimer with 623 and 115 Squadrons until he was shot down 24 March 1944 and became a prisoner of war. He was instrumental in erecting a memorial plaque to the Air Crew Reception Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground in London. <br />The collection also contains a scrap book of photographs.<br /><br />Additional information on his crew is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/218400/">IBCC Losses Database.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Harry Wilkins and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Geach, DG
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[underlined] S.O. Book 136. (Indexed) [/underlined]
Code 28-74-0.
G [crest] R
[circled SUPPLIED FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE]
T. 1599. Wt. 10569. 16,500 Bks. 2/38. P.I.
[page break]
[underlined] BOOK 1 [/underlined]
COMMENCING MY LIFE IN THE R.A.F. UP TILL THE END OF I.T.W.
[page break]
[underlined] Monday February 9th. [/underlined]
Something gave me the wild idea, of trying to keep a diary of my life in the R.A.F. and try is the right word, for I doubt if it will last more than a fortnight. I was sworn in as a U/T Pilot last August & have been waiting until to-day when I at last entered the R.A.F. My first day is now over.
Five of us from work, met & arrived here at 10 A.M. Bill Wren was separated from us, as he is an Observer, then Frank P & Frank B, were put in Flight 6, whilst Len Bacon & I went in Flight 9. We hung about this morning at Lords Cricket Ground, filled in numerous forms, & had a quick medical. Later we marched to the clothing stores, this is a converted garage, a big place, & out of it recruits were pouring with, kit-bag
[page break]
articles of clothing, on their arms, & tin helmet on their head, a most comical sight. Inside we hurried from counter to counter & emerged in the same rag-a-muffin state as the others, the evacuation of Dunkirk had nothing on us.
We marched to our quarters then, a big block of flats, called Hall Rd. [indecipherable word], & then to dinner. It was then 4-30 P.M. & I had been since 8 a.m. without a bite. Food isn’t too bad not cooked well though. After, we went back & made our beds, & checked the kits, then we were found to be in the wrong room, some corporals fault, so we undid the beds & dragged them away. We had to stay in to-night other nights we have 5-30 – 10.30 off Sat, 1.30 – 23-59 Sun 12.30 – 10.30. Lights out are at 11.0 p.m Reveille 6 A.M. I’ve written a fair bit about my first day so being tired I’m off to [deleted] bed[/deleted]. bed.
[page break]
[underlined] Thursday Feb. 12th [/underlined]
Our first week is well under way now, it’s a swine in the morning, reveille at 6 A.M, & we should be washed, dressed, shaved, beds made, room swept, kit cleaned & at breakfast by 6.30. Its pitch black & we have to queue in the dark & cold for about half an hour before we get in the dining hall, its underground. As I said before, food is none too good. Our day consists mainly of marching, lectures & drill. Weve [sic] had 2 hours Morse & have to receive 4 w.p.m at the end of the week, & 2 hours maths yesterday & 2 tomorrow, exam is at end of week also. These exams decide whether we go to I.T.W or Brighton (for further training) or stay here a bit longer. Had a lecture by Group Captain – name is Gillighan was a Kent cricketer
[page break]
decent chap – at Swiss Cottage Odeon. Haven’t been home or out any night yet.
[underlined] Friday Feb 13th [/underlined]
We no longer jump out of bed at reveille, we’re all dog-tired & half-asleep in the day. Had our final 2 hours Maths to-day & then the exam this afternoon, we went to Regents Park Zoo for it. Funny to sit & watch lions walking round, while doing maths. Dont [sic] think I did too well, guess its Brighton for me. [deleted] [indecipherable letter] [/deleted] Tailor saw our uniforms Wednesday, & we took them to the stores for alteration yesterday. Got them back to-day & all tried them on, doesn’t look too bad, all nice & new though. We have to scrub our room to-night for C.O’s inspection to-morrow. Dont [sic] think I mentioned it,
[page break]
we have to put our 3 ‘biscuits’ (small mattresses) with blankets & 2 sheets in certain order & position, & towel laid on bed every day, & if anything’s an inch out theres [sic] hell of a row. Am meeting Mary at dance to-night if I can make it.
[underlined] Monday Feb 16th. [/underlined]
Got to dance with Len Bacon, & saw the old pals at office, only had 1 1/2 hours there. On C.O’s inspection he saw a pair of boots on a bed instead of under, & a case in sight, so he declared the room disgraceful, & we stayed in for our Saturday afternoon, washing doors, while every one else had gone out or home. I just managed to catch Mary in time at Holborn Stn. & we went to the ‘Globe’ & saw Evelyn Williams in his play “The Morning Star” Got back by 11-10 P.M. On Sunday we
[page break]
marched around trying to find a church for church parade, as the one we should have attended didn’t hold 1500 like they claimed. The padre was decent & only said a prayer lasting 3 mins so we would be able to get home early. Booked out & was home at ten to one. All asked hundreds of questions. Mary came over, I slept most of time, arrived back at 10-10.
Yesterday was busy day, went to Odeon for lectures in morning, did P.T for first time in the afternoon, in gym kit, pretty cold. Then gas lecture & had to march & drill with bare necks, & no greatcoats in the street. Regular swine our corporal, tiny chap too, guess he’s after his third stripe. Wrote letters
[page break]
this evening. We’ve got our inoculations to-morrow, & we’re in a funk, according to the tales we’ve heard most of the chaps faint on the spot. Also on guard all night so we should be in a sorry state by Wednesday.
[underlined] Tuesday (afternoon) Feb 17th [/underlined]
Well our inoculations are over, & they’re not too bad so far. Marching there we saw a couple of fellows who had had it, being helped along, so it didn’t cheer us. We had two in the chest and Vaccination & Blood Testing in the arm. About three or four came over groggy & faint in our flight, we’ve got all the afternoon off until 5-30 p.m when we parade for guard, our arms are beginning to stiffen, & our chests ache so will need something to get us through it.
[page break]
[underlined] Thursday Feb 19th [/underlined]
Feeling quite A.1 again now, we did our guard, although by Army Regulations, we should have 48 hours off after inoculations, 44 of the flight had light duties – like pickets etc. & had the usual nights ‘sleep’, but I happened to be one of the unlucky ones, and I with five others did guard at the door, 2 on & 4 off, & got snatches of sleep somehow but was half asleep all yesterday. Light day though only fitted for oxygen masks & collected identity cards & discs, my plate in it looks as though I’ve all the cares of the world on my shoulders. Today we had our first pay parade, terrific amount of waiting etc. all for 30/-. This afternoon we had a lecture by the padre, a
[page break]
real decent fellow, a pilot of the last war incidentally. He particularly impressed upon us that many of us would come off the pilots course a
& finish as an [deleted] bomber [/deleted] observer or W.O.P. – Air Gnr. Marched half-way round London & dashed to Abbey Lodge for a medical. Somehow I didn’t have to have one as my last was only six months ago, four others were in the same position. So am looking forward to a quiet night and a good bath, tonight if I can make it.
[underlined] Tuesday Feb 24th [/underlined]
Have let this slip for a bit, so have lot of writing to do. Same old bind marching, drilling etc. & cursing the corps. guts, in the C.Os inspection the gas-capes weren’t rolled with the buttons dead in the front. Maybe this sort of stuff will
[page break]
make us better pilots, I don’t quite see how though. Got home alright Sat & Sun, stood waiting for an hour before Church parade Been trying to get our thirteen pieces of webbing into one for the march past on Wednesday. We assemble it, roll the gas capes dead to 15 ins, & then have to take it down, put it together again, nothing but messing around. Have been shown films of engineering, inventions, road-building, & farming, so were [sic] beginning to wonder what were [sic] here for, anyway we sleep through them. We do P.T in Regents park, talk about brass monkeys, were nearly frozen. Had to parade in full webbing & kit packed to be inspected to-day, & stood for an hour in it, our backs were nearly broken
[page break]
We were supposed to have an Inter Flight Drill competition to-day, but the C.O said we were the smartest [inserted] - ? [/inserted] easily, so it isn’t being held. We should worry about the honour, our corp. will be a good way to getting his third stripe, out of our sweat, but will find nothing extra in our pay packet. Every other flight have their grading results, but 9 Flight, last as usual, has nothing. We might get our posting to-morrow – expect we’ll all be for the Sunny South. We’re leaving here Saturday anyway, & are confined to camp Friday night, so it will be good-bye to A.C.R.C. or assie-tassie as they call it, we won’t weep tears over leaving anyway, wonder if anyone will do the corporal on a dark night.
[underlined] Thursday Feb 26th [/underlined]
Still preparing for this march
[page break]
past, it still hasn’t come off. We spent most of yesterday standing around in our full pack & webbing until in the afternoon we were inspected by the Squadron commander. He found various little faults as usual, & we had to stay in to correct them, I with 24 others were ordered to have hair-cuts, they even have Air Force regulations for this – no hair should be longer than two inches. Then we had to wait for our pay books making the time 8.30 P.M. I was going home to say good-bye but it was then impossible. My night vision is above average, only a couple of others had that, doubt if it will mean anything.
Had our posting results to-day, I’ve been graded C, that’s passed signals, failed maths,
[page break]
so I’m going to Brighton. Out of those from work, Bill Wren & Len Bacon are going to I.T.W, & Frank P, Frank B & Ken Wyatt are coming with me. Our famous flat 32 (we’ve been in more trouble than any other flat in the building, had the honour of being the first flat to be kept in by [deleted] him [/deleted] [inserted] Caesar [/inserted] is well split up. Ken, Ray & Frank are going to one I.T.W (incidentally Ken went sick to-day & that defers his posting) Len & Tom to another I.T.W, whilst Pete, Ernie, George Mike & Bill, & myself head south. “Taffy” & Ralph aren’t posted yet for they are undergoing eye training. We shan’t be sorry to leave this place, but its a shame our flat couldn’t stick together. We’re waiting for another inspection to-day, by the Squadron Comdr. If we’re kept in to-night
[page break]
there’ll be almost a riot. An order has come through that we have to acquaint ourselves with the Group Captain’s car, & salute it every time it passes in the street. I guess that is supposed to shorten the war somehow. [inserted] – Farmer and then Bill Wren is for Brighton like me. [/inserted]
[underlined] Three Hours Later [/underlined]
C.O’s inspection now over & wonder of wonders he said, we were about the best he had seen & it was a [underlined] very good show [/underlined]! So we’re free now at four ock, [sic] so am going home at 5.30 when we can book out, & enjoy the last night with the family and Mary.
[underlined] Friday Feb 26th [/underlined]
This is the last entry I shall make at A.C.R.C. we leave tomorrow morning, the times of departure will be announced to-night. We have just finished packing
[page break]
& its a hell of a job to get everything in our packs. Tomorrow we all go our various ways, its a shame really to break all the crowd up, for they’re all decent chaps, wonder when we shall meet again. Felt the first twinge of pride in the R.A.F, that the Fl/lt was always lecturing about, yesterday, when after all our sweating & cursing at the corporal, we marched along, the smartest turn-out there, I guess it was for our own good after all.
We have done nothing but hang around to-day, its been nice & easy for a change. I’ve been posted to ‘M’ Flight at Brighton. I wonder what kind of a place it is and what the fellows are like, still I’ll know soon enough. Seeing its our last night I guess all ‘Flat 32’ will go out on the beer & wake up feeling awful to-morrow – well next time I write will be at Brighton.
[page break]
[underlined] Monday March 2nd [/underlined]
We’re now at Brighton & are viewing it with mixed feelings I don’t like it so much as A.C.R.C. Our billet is the Hotel Metropole & is a fine big place overlooking the sea. There are three others in this room, Frank P, Bill Monk, who was in my flat at Hall Rd, & a chap named John, who came off a WOP/AG’s course. The room has bare stone floor which isn’t so bad, but there is no heating, & no wash bowl, & about four roomfull’s [sic] of fellows use the one opposite, that makes about 25 chaps to one wash-basin. All windows & doors are open throughout the day & a perpetual gale sweeps through.
This seems to be a worse place for red-tape – we have a stronger word for it. I’ll give a few examples, we have to green
[page break]
blanco the respirators – against K.R’s by the way – which makes them an evil green & destroys their water-proofing ability. White blanco our flashes, do own P.T shoes all over with blacking, even John who has brown shoes. A coat-hangar is issued & the gas-cape is hung in a certain manner – different to that at A.C.R.C. – over it. The blankets etc. are folded the same, but sheets must be rolled & flattened until they are the same thickness as the blankets. Towel is laid out touching the biscuits & kit-bag laid under the bed with end of it in line with edge of towel. Boots & P.T shoes & water-bottle are stood in order at the foot of the bed. The mug – issued to us – is placed in the centre of the towel, with knife handle downwards in centre, spoon on the left & fork on the right, oh! & the handle of the mug must point to the right. All this & 67 miles across this water – Jerry is training like hell to smash us.
[page break]
The food here is cooked by women however, & is decent, we actually had [underlined] egg [/underlined] & bacon for Sunday breakfast. No church parade yesterday & after 12 we viewed the town & sea, visited a cinema at night, lot longer show than in London. I am now in ‘B’ Flight, & there are 151 in this, our day is from 7.40 parade. – then classes from 8 A.M. till 12-35 & 2.0 P.M. till 6.15 P.M. so were [sic] gonna be busy. With all this cleaning etc. we won’t have many evenings out either. Fellow in room opposite heard his brother – Spitfire pilot – was killed on ops’ yesterday, so applied for compassionate leave. C.O was away so they told him to wait until to-day & some pilot officer (ground staff) airily remarked “Oh: well weve [sic] all got to go sometime you know”. He got leave to-day. Well will see what life is [inserted] like [/inserted] here this week.
[page break]
[underlined] Thursday March 5th (morning) [/underlined]
It is a difficulty to find a moment to make entries in this diary, down here. Out time is fully occupied, parade 7.40 then classes at 8-0 till 12.30 with 1/4 hours break, we queue for dinner then, & parade again at 1.40 for classes at 2.0 until 6-15 when we queue for tea. It is like a school for we change from Signals to Morse or Lecture etc every hour. We certainly have enough Maths, and I only pray I’ll pass the exam. Queuing for meals is better than Hall Rd, it winds in single file right up the stair-cases to the 5th floor, but they certainly get rid of them quickly.
Our room is on the 5th floor & we have 145 stairs to climb each time. The routine of blanco etc. hasn’t been as binding as we thought & time passes quickly.
[page break]
The C.O. doesn’t seem too bad after all, a bit strict but he’s fair. The chaps billeted in the Grand Hotel next door have a worse time than us, their food isn’t so good, & the squadron-leader they have for a C.O. well – I spoke to some fellows who were on ‘Jankers’ & asked their offences. One got 7 days jankers for a tunic button being dirty, another two had 7 days one for speaking and the other for looking round when they had been ‘Standing at Ease’ for half-hour. On an inspection this C.O. takes a piece of string with him & runs it up the blanket pack & if its 1/4” out [deleted] they get [/deleted] of the required width they get a warning & 3 days fatigues, if it happens to be 1/4" out again – jankers. All these little trimmings are added because ours is supposed to be a disciplinary course.
[page break]
One good thing, we’ve had nothing like the amount of “square bashing” I expected. I’ve got a huge lump like a tumour [deleted] come up [/deleted] [inserted] appear [/inserted] on my left knee, so I reported sick. The M.O. felt it & said it was nothing, & when I asked if it would go away he replied he doubted if it would, - it didn’t trouble him as long as it doesn’t injure my body in any way that would prevent me doing the job the R.A.F. wants, it reminds me in a disgusting way of breeding cattle. Its strange really because most of the M.O’s are really decent & know their work from A – Z & look after you ever so well.
Did my first guard here Tues. night, I was black-out patrol, a nice early ‘mike’, I had usual sleep. Owing to being on guard though, I missed swimming in the Organised Games afternoon, and I regretted that a great deal.
[page break]
[underlined] Saturday March 7th – (afternoon) [/underlined]
One week is now over, had our first real drill period on Friday, but was nothing compared with that at A.C.R.C. On Thursday after I had made the last entry we went to the ‘Princes’ Hall, a ball-room taken over by the R.A.F, & had a lecture by a Wing-Comdr. from Air-Sea Rescue. We had heard most of the stuff before but he gave us some interesting tales. Out of 1800 rescues made only 2 have worked perfectly from the time of ditching to the rescue, snags nearly always crop up. Another time a Hun pilot landed in the drink in mid-Channel, & E-boats & our H.S.L’s both went for him. The Messerschmitt escort shot up two of our boats & the crews took to the life-boat. So we sent three Hurricanes
[page break]
who shot down one Messerschmitt, & chased the other two back. So along came 12 Mess & back went our 3 Hurricanes, Fighter-Command didn’t like it so up went 12 Hurricanes & ding-dong it went. Meantime the Navy had sent our surface craft to clean the Channel of E-boats – so a small war waged all over one man. It only ended with coming darkness, for both sides had reinforcements standing by, & because an E-boat picked up the Hun. Some of the things they have on these rubber dinghies are still hush-hush. One is an invention which marvellously changes a quarter of a pint of sea-water into [underlined] drinking water [/underlined]. Another was a tin of soup & you lit a small tab on the top with waterproof matches & in 7 mins there was a can of hot soup. A small wireless is now included & they are experimenting with a
[page break]
rocket-kite to be fired from a pistol to carry up the aerial about 200 ft. Other gadgets such as floatable torch, floatable knife certainly make it a wonderful achievement. Had our usual quota of maths & signals. Today because a couple of rooms were dirty on inspection, we were all confined to barracks this afternoon & this evening, but cheers! its now been cancelled. I’m off to try & find a photographer’s to record this ugly dial.
[underlined] Tuesday March 10th (afternoon) [/underlined]
Had a look round the town Saturday, visited photographers, & then we finished with visit to cinema. Sunday was a nice restful day, with [underlined] egg, [/underlined] bacon & sausage for breakfast again, then church parade. There is a lot less hanging around for the Church parade than at A.C.R.C.
[page break]
In the afternoon we spent a lovely lazy afternoon, lounging on a seat in the sunshine, on the prom. I filled the afternoon by writing, a letter to Mary & sun-bathing at the same time. A short alert was sounded, first I’ve heard for ages, only gun fire was heard in the distance. On news it was announced that a Heinkel was shot down at Worthing by the convoy we had seen pass through. A M.T.B & a cable-ship were hove-to here most of the day. There is ample opportunity for aircraft rec. here as numerous types are constantly skimming the houses. Sunday evening was spent in the usual cleaning routine. A good part of Monday was spent in drill, but was most enjoyable in the sun, its marvellous the amount of people who stop to stare, we’d be the envy of all buskers. There’s certainly no war –
[page break]
- effort noticeable among a throng of pleasure-seekers, & nice wealthy people who have left the noise of bomb-battered London. Two hours were spent this morning in cleaning the room to the nth degree for Wing-Comdr’s inspection. Marvel of marvels he found no faults & some late passes were actually issued. I collected the photographs to-day & they were so lousy I promptly destroyed them. I have a break now as it is Org Games this afternoon & I intend to go swimming.
[underlined] Wednesday March 11th (dinner-time) [/underlined]
We had an enjoyable swim yesterday afternoon, in a small sea-water baths 25 yds by 10 yds. There were 90 of us in it, but when it cleared it was pretty comfortable. In the evening we went to the Theatre Royal, where the management allow us in the 3/6d seats for 1/-
[page break]
pretty decent of them. The show was “Other People’s Houses”, I had seen it at the Ambassadors, but this was a good performance. One point I forgot to mention [deleted] was [/deleted] in the previous entry was that on Monday we set up a record for dressing, washing & making bed-packs. We slept until 7.20 & had to parade at 7.40, boy! did we move but we made it alright. Yesterday they tried to catch us napping without our respirators, by letting tear-gas loose without warning, but we got through alright. Today its been pouring all day, & I guess we were down for drill, for we’ve been hanging about doing nothing, so I seized this opportunity of making this entry. Some baa-lamb annexed our electric light bulb last night & substituted another dim one, so it looks like a raiding expedition for us to-night. Ah! dinner-time I’m off.
[page break]
[underlined] Friday March 13th (morning) [/underlined]
Usual programme of maths, signals, drill etc. beginning to get keyed up for the exam on Tues, one moment I think I can certainly pass & then the next I can’t see how I can possibly do it, still we’ll just have to wait and see. Its Friday 13th to-day & although I’m not superstitious, I’m wondering if Fate has any surprises in store. We all returned from our ops’ Wed. night complete with bright new bulb, no casualties though a few narrow squeaks. The fellow who is the sorry owner of the dim bulb, will now do some switching & so it goes on.
Yesterday all the airmen down here that could possibly be spared, paraded for the Wing march-past. We all paraded just by the Aquarium on Marine Parade, & then all marched past
[page break]
the Wing Comdr who takes the salute. This bright idea & waste of time originates from him only, and the dais he stands on to take the salute, was built just for that purpose, of, concrete, bricks & steel, all materials needed for the war-effort, at a cost of £120. Then a semi-patriotic address followed, in which he excused the petty rules, such as position of drinking mug etc. as training to make us good pilots. He is the one responsible for blancoing the respirators, some of these pocket dictators make me sick. Still maybe it will end one fine day, & we’ll really get cracking on what we joined up for.
Last night I was on guard & got fire-picket, 2 0n, 4 off, as usual. We cut for different guards & with my usual abomidable [sic] luck, I drew a 3 & last guard, so only had 4 hours sleep, well I’ll never be able to make that up so will probably fall asleep in classes.
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[underlined] Monday March 16th (morning) [/underlined]
The week-end seems to have flown by, it usually does, but this week-end has gone [deleted] unuas [/deleted] unusually quickly, due to the fact no doubt, that both our Maths & Signals exams are to-day. Signals is next hour & Maths this afternoon, naturally were [sic] in a blue funk, still maybe all will come right in the end.
We’ve met no end of fellows who’ve passed here, gone to I.T.W, then they gave them a similar exam, right away, heaven knows why, & there chaps [deleted] made [/deleted] [inserted] came [/inserted] a cropper & back they came. This is about the easiest course to become discouraged and ‘browned-off’ on. Here are we desperately wanting to fly & fight, & they do everything they can to stop you, & cause failures by exams which have no bearing on the course. Lord knows how many, excellent pilots-to-be have been put off, just because
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they were rusty on Equations or another minor branch of Maths. It certainly drives me into the frame of thought, that it is impossible to even be a pilot.
Frank & I had a most pleasant surprise yesterday, when Ken Little & Frank Jose, shouted to us on the prom. They were on their annual leave & had started on a cycling holiday, & their first stop was Brighton. It was like a bolt from the blue to see some-one from the office down here - & fairly knocked us back. Frank B then came along, & we three listened to all the news they had of the office. Ken was attested for the R.A.F last week, so we gave him all the ‘gen’ on our course.
A terrific amount of activity was going on here yesterday, with planes whizzing around, M.T.B’s scurrying along with convoys, a miniature invasion almost. ‘A’ & ‘C’ flights have been drafted for overseas, I don’t know whether I envy or pity them.
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[underlined] Wednesday March 18th [/underlined]
Well our exams are over now, I managed to scrape 100% in Morse, the other three also got through, we’re all hanging on now just waiting for the maths results, its pretty binding. Tuesday saw us taking another exam, this time the Gas exam still it was pretty easy & it doesn’t count with posting. The rest of the day was usual routine.
On Wednesday afternoon we had the Organised Games, & being as it was persistently raining, they abandoned football, rugger & swimming & we were all supposed to go on a 5 mile run. The prospect of running through the rain had no attractions for us, so about 9 of us stayed in a room until the transport had left, luckily there was no roll-call. The buses were supposed to take them 5 miles.
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out & they had to run back, half of them jumped out at the first corner. This evening we’re going to a Wing Concert at Prince’s Hall – should be good.
[underlined] Friday March 20th [/underlined]
Feel bucked now, our results have arrived, all four of us have passed, & we went on posting parade. Once more the splitting up begins, Frank & Bill are going to 8 I.T.W Newquay, John is staying here for a week, whilst I am going to 12 I.T.W at St Andrews. Phew! what a journey its over 500 miles from here & I guess we’ll move off to-night. Guess we’ll have to struggle with the packs and everything once more, still we should be able to snatch some sleep, one of the fellows said its supposed to be under snow there – Anyway I guess we’ll know soon enough, I’m a bit sorry to leave this station it
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has been fairly ‘cushy’ considering, & besides missing old Bill & Frank, I shall be at a station without another fellow from the office for the first time. A week ago Ken Wyatt was taken to hospital with a temperature of 103o & he’s still no better – poor chap. I don’t know where Bill Wren is posted to, he’s on this floor.
The Wing Concert on Wednesday, was an excellent show, & they only had a week to rehearse it. The C.O & his wife were there and they enjoyed the cracks made at him. About the biggest laugh came when in the middle of an act a fellow in pyjamas came out rubbing his eyes & enquired “Anyone seen a broom?” – we shall certainly remember Brighton by this cry. For in the morning when we have to sweep our rooms in a short space of time, there are about 5 brooms to
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70 rooms, hence the plaintive cry. Another pet phrase is “You’ve had it,” meaning its your lot” “or your end is in sight” thats [sic] about as near as it can be translated. One fellow in his gas exam said “Apply anti-gas ointment to a mustard gas burn within two minutes otherwise – you’ve had it.” Ah! well I guess I might as well draw this diary’s life at Brighton to a close, it goes on a 4 – 500 mile journey to-night, like me it is certainly seeing life. Well the next entry will be made in the land of the heather.
[underlined] Monday March 23rd [/underlined]
Here I am safe & sound across the border, & the week-end and introduction to our course are now over. The actual travelling time was 19 hours for the journey we paraded at 4.45 p.m Friday at Brighton & reached St. Andrews dead at noon Saturday. There
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wasn’t a great deal of hanging about which is so usual on postings – but the night express to Edinburgh was 2 1/2 hours late owing to thick mist. It was my first visit to Scotland, & I expected very rugged scenery, but being on the East Coast the countryside is very pleasing.
St Andrews is very old-worldly, & the architecture seems a trifle grim to my English eye, but it’s a very nice town. We have a comfortable billet in a nice small hotel named Abbotsford. Oh! by the way I forgot to mention our journey was accomplished on 3 small sandwiches, a pork pie – our rations & 6d sustenance allowance – they certainly think we’re tough here. To resume everything is top-hole here – the food, accomodation, [sic] beds & a hundred other small details that can make or mar a billet. If we’re lucky
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& don’t fail our maths exam on Weds week, (& I’m praying to the Lord that I don’t for I want to stay on this course) then we complete a ten week course & go on a weeks leave at the end of it.
The course itself means constant swotting from the word go, we take our exams in Aircraft Recog. – we have to know 86 types – Signals – 6 w.p.m in sending & receiving both buzzer & Aldis lamp – Navigation, Law & Administration, [inserted] Anti-Gas [/inserted] Hygiene, & Armaments. We’ll certainly have to get cracking. We started work to-day & have to know 27 types of planes at the end of the week & as I know practically nothing about it I’ll have to make it somehow. The drill here is very lively 140 to the minute all the time for marching [deleted] bu [/deleted] but as the air is very bracing it should keep us fit, also we have 2 Organised Games a week.
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The officers & N.C.O’s here are very decent & the C.O. seems a sport, our corporal is a real decent guy, a Scottish Rugby international – Barry – we also have a Middlesex cricketer here so were [sic] among stars.
We had 2 hrs maths to-day we only have 10 hrs before the exam Also we had our first tuition on the Vickers G.O. Gun to-day & the corporal came out with one of the smartest cracks I’ve heard – we asked when the guns we use for dismantling were last fired - & he said he guessed it was when Pontius was a Pilate (pilot). Very neat I thought. Also they are absolutely keen on cleanness & this squadron is a crack-one & we never wear great-coats – being as it is fine weather its alright now. Well I guess I’d better get cracking on some home-work, & some button-cleaning then a bath & off to bed.
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[underlined] Thursday March 26th [/underlined]
There is not a lot of time to keep a diary at this station either, but I’ve managed to grab this opportunity of bringing it up to date. We are now approaching the end of our first week in St. Andrews, & its about the [deleted] easiest [/deleted] [inserted] best [/inserted] place we’ve struck yet – some of the fellows who have 3 years service in think the same. We have Tues & Friday afternoons off for organised games & Saturday afternoon & Sunday, so things are very pleasant. Mind you with our lectures & everything we certainly have to work as well – but there’s no cause for complaint.
The food is still excellent although I don’t care for the porridge, still I don’t think it is “pukka” Scotch porridge so I can’t criticise their famous body-building diet.
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We have been cracking at aircraft rec. this week & are supposed to know 27 [inserted] planes [/inserted] by Monday, that means know them perfectly. We’ve also had 2 lectures on the Vickers Gas Operated Gun – still we’re not troubling about any of those until we pass or if we pass our maths. I don’t think the Maths tuition we get here is as good as Brighton, still that was a Maths course. Exercise abounds – we get a tidy quota of drill & games, our P.T. instructor is sick at the moment. Last night seven of us went rowing out into the bay, we got in before darkness fell. It was grand, the sea was fairly choppy, & we rose & pitched like a cork – the sea certainly has its attractions. I also went for a sail on our Games afternoon Tues. – as my knee is still ‘whoozy’ &
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I didn’t chance football – and we went a hell of a way out, & the Beauforts from the nearby drome made dummy attacks at us.
Today saw us doing a 3 1/2 mile cross-country run, the first 5 will compete in the Wing run. Our crowd kept together & stayed just with the front few for most of the course to satisfy ourselves we could do it & then dropped back. Only the Wing run is on a Saturday & were [sic] sure we’ll be doing something important then. The inspections here are about the strictest I’ve met, both personal & room inspections. They certainly keep one looking smart & insist upon smart walking always as well. If we stay to finish this course we should be well licked into shape. Guess I’d better get on with some studying now.
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[underlined] Monday March 30th [/underlined]
Our first week here is over now, there should have been a ‘D’ Flight come in here Saturday but it was cancelled, so we still have the place to ourselves. Which is very nice seeing we have plenty of food & all is nice & cosy. We covered a good deal of ground with our lectures & had plenty of work to do in the evenings, at present we’re concentrating on Maths for we have that exam Wednesday. So we’re offering up our prayers for we don’t wish to be taken off the course now.
Friday was our second games afternoon, but I didn’t do anything in particular, for I’m having trouble with the knee again. Incidentally I reported sick with it to-day, & the Sqdn Ldr who is the Chief M.O. told me it was
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unusual, so he thought it might be a torn ligament protruding, & I have to report again in 4 days, & might see a specialist.
Saturday afternoon we decided to walk across the links to – an operational ‘drome there, & get a look round. We splashed through all the mud where the tide had retreated, to try and make a short cut, & then over ploughed fields. We never reached there however, & were just starting a 4 mile tramp along the road back when two W.A.A.F’s gave us a lift in a lorry – bless ‘em. I had a crack at dancing in the evening & found various things different from the English way, but we got on alright. Church parade was over Sunday by 10.0 A.M. – we have a good padre he certainly has faith. – In the afternoon I was deciding to
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try to learn the ancient game of ‘gowf’, we couldn’t find any golf-balls though, so it squashed the whole idea. Today an Air-Marshall came visiting, he saw us when we were in the hall seeing slides for aircraft rec.
Well I certainly feel A.1. & on top of life here & eating like a horse. Yesterday evening we had a fine ‘scratch’ game of soccer on a smooth stretch of sands – we get plenty of exercise in every way. At [deleted] pres [/deleted] [inserted] the [/inserted] moment we’re practising for a drill competition, though I doubt if we stand much chance of bringing it off. It was a Scotch holiday or else just a merchants holiday to-day & all shops were closed and lots of bagpipe skirlings came from the University. Ah! a final plunge into the maths book, & with Gods Help next time I write I may have safely negotiated the exam
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[underlined] Wednesday April 1st [/underlined]
I am making this entry whilst on fire-picket, this is an easy guard duty at this station also, I was lucky enough to get this last week as well. We have [deleted] long [/deleted] nothing to do as long as we stay here & about 10.0 – 11.0 the Orderly officer generally turns us out on a practice fire. Last night they were turned out at 9-30 & 4 were missing, - they are on fatigue’s tonight. Then they had the shock of their lives for at 11.0 the Wing Cmdr, the Earl of Haddington by the way, arrived & turned them out. Half of them didn’t know where the appliances were or how to use them, but I don’t think any complaints were made.
We didn’t do anything out of the usual yesterday morning – an extra maths period was given us.
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The afternoon was our Org. Games afternoon, but owing to the weather – it rained on & off all day – no games were arranged. So Bob, Bill & I went out in a rowing-boat, there was a hell of wind & current running, & then a beauty of a storm descended on us. We could only run before it, & when it lifted we were drenched through, & a good way from the harbour, we had to row like the dickens to get back.
This morning we took the exam at 8-30 A.M. & I think all our room got through – thank the Lord – for we didn’t want to be split – it wasn’t so bad. For two hours to-day we’ve been on rifle drill for a lot didn’t know any when mounting guard – it reminds me of the days in the H.G. – a bind though – Blast that’s the O.O turning us out must dash off –
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[underlined] Saturday April 4th. [/underlined]
The last few days the weather here has been dull & squally, & we’ve had to drill on the sea-front in driving rain – we got thoroughly soaked yesterday. Today was a decent day though & we had the drill competition – as I thought, we didn’t win it but we were by far the newest flight in it. We were complimented by the adjudicating officer on our show & he said it was better than his regiment could have done - & he was a Lt-col in the Seaforth’s so all was not lost.
This week we had a dental inspection & practically everyone is a ‘victim’, I have to have about 2 filled, & the ‘executions’ started Thursday – I think my turn is on Monday. Now our maths are over we have commenced our Navigation, which is the main
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subject in our course. the other night we had some excitement in a rowing-boat Bob & Bill, & myself were out together, & were having the deuce of a time keeping into the bay against a strong current & wind, when suddenly a storm broke. It rained & then hailed, & being as we were in jackets we we [sic] drenched, but the worst part was we were swept out from the harbour. When the weather cleared it took us about 3/4 hour to row back, the boat-man told us when he saw us go, he was about to [deleted] settl [/deleted] set out in the motor-launch. For two cadets were all but drowned the week we arrived. Still it was fun.
A new flight, ‘D’ arrived from A.C.R.C. to-day. It seems they are mainly D grade – all grades are posted to I.T.W’s now, not like us – still I think they lose
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by not going to Brighton. It will seem a bit crowded here now. My knee seems better although not cured – but I have finished with sick parades. We had another 4 mile run on Thursday – if this keeps up we might be able to give Wooderson some tips.
Looking back I find I haven’t mentioned who the five other fellows in this room are. Ron is from Goodmayes, Carl from Yorkshire, Alan from Maidenhead, & Bill & Bob from Glasgow. So actually I am the only one from London. The other night Bill got muddled in the dates & the night he should have been on guard he was playing golf. He was placed on a charge, but luckily got away with only 3 days ‘jankers’. Well its Easter Saturday to-day & I guess ordinarily I would be working so I guess I’m a lot better here.
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[underlined] Thursday April 9th. [/underlined]
Been pretty busy this week & had no time to keep this up-to-date. Our lectures have become more concentrated lately & we have had a lot of evening work to do. We are rapidly progressing in our Navigation which promises to be an interesting subject. Our drill seems to have been shelved lately – most probably on account of the uncertain weather. On Monday though, when Corporal Barry was taking us the Sqdn Flt/Sgt crept across the golf-course & took us for drill. He did everything in his power to make us mess it up as much as possible. Its impossible to describe it, but orders barked unintelligibly, constant marching backwards & forwards – anything to bind us.
Our games Tues afternoon I played rugger in a drizzling rain, and was well knocked about – I was
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just recovering from those aches & pains when I had to attend the dentist & had two teeth drilled. To complete the day in the afternoon we were given 2 inoculations – 3 times as strong as those at A.C.R.C. and it certainly shook us. I know my arm ached like the very devil, & the mild attack of fever we had gee! it was - & still is awful. This morning we felt sick, & hot & cold by turns, although we are recovering now, our arms seem to be locked with pain. Tomorrow I return to the tender care of the dentist for another filling.
This morning 12 fellows were put on a charge for being in bed 1/2 hour after reveille (one was in our room – Ron) they all got 3 days jankers – tough luck seeing they felt queer. Bob has obtained a week-end pass & his girl has leave – so he’s home to Glasgow – he hasn’t seen her in uniform she joined the [deleted] AA [/deleted] WRNS – 4 months ago.
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[underlined] Sunday April 12th. [/underlined]
Taking advantage of our one real restful day in the week, I am making this entry. The latter part of each week always passes far more quickly than the first, for Friday afternoon is reserved for games & Saturday afternoon & Sunday are free so we don’t overburden ourselves with work then. My visits to the dentist are at an end, & he declared me ‘finished’, in exactly what sense of the word I don’t know. My arm is less painful now, so I am beginning to feel A.1. again.
During the past week we have had 8 A.T.C. officers attached to the Sqdn – to get an insight on R.A.F. life. One took us for drill the other day he was quite O.K. – On Saturday we went out onto the dunes and had our first experience at reading
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Aldis lamp – I progressed none too well. The same day we also elected our C.F.C. ([deleted] chief [/deleted] [inserted] cadet [/inserted] flight commander), who takes control if the corporal is absent. Our P.T.I. – a corporal – has returned from sick leave - & he looks a nagging baa-lamb, guess we’ll see him tomorrow. We have also a Law test in the work we’ve covered – that stuff wants some stomaching.
The time is beginning to slip by though, & our leave approaches, what a day that will be. This week-end we’ve spent a good deal of time over on the putting green – but owing to a high wind – no good scores were recorded. I guess Bob will be back from Glasgow soon, its getting late. Also Ron – he obtained a day pass to see his brother in the Navy just docked at Queensferry. I expect they’ll both come back cursing the all too short time – Had Maths results this week I got 93% only 1 failure in the flight.
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[underlined] Thursday. April 16th [/underlined]
I happen to be on fire-picket to-night, we only get it every tenth day, now that ‘D’ flight are here. The weather has been glorious lately, I guess it will be a fine spring, short summer, & long winter again. We are well up to schedule with our lectures, so most of our time this week, has been spent on P.T etc. The P.T.I. is a decent chap after all – Irish - & we’ve had some good times. Nearly every day we’ve been down to the beach and had exercises & games. We strip down to shorts & slippers and its grand to dive about at rugby touch in that sun.
On Wednesday we went on a 7 mile route march, it was a very warm day, & we certainly welcomed the 15 min break at the turning-point. The beer is pretty good around here, but I guess
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anything would have gone down nicely then. We must [inserted] be [/inserted] beginning to toughen up now though for we hardly felt any ill effects or aches & pains.
On Wednesday night we had a surprise, in the middle of the night the air raid siren was sounded. The alert only lasted for about half an hour and no events were recorded. We are now doing Morse on the Aldis Lamp & find it more difficult than the buzzer – though I guess it’s a case of becoming used to it.
We have been feeling pretty tired during the day-time lately, & frequently falling asleep. I was intending to have an early night to-night, but as we have our gas exam to-morrow, I suppose I should get cracking on swotting up my notes.
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[underlined] Monday April 20th [/underlined]
Have just started our fifth week here at the end of this week, we will be exactly half-way through our course, time certainly flies. Which reminds me its about time I got really down to swotting each time I look at the work it seems more. Now that our Anti-Gas exam is over we took it on Saturday we have resumed our Armaments, we’ve practically forgotten the little we knew of the Vickers. A pal of mine at 8 I.T.W. Newquay wrote & told me they have changed to the Browning about twice as much to learn, don’t know if we will. ‘D’ Flight take their maths exam on Wednesday they were given an extra weeks tuition being as they haven’t passed any exams yet.
We had a lousy piece of news on Friday, at least it was for us, Corp. Barry has got his third stripe & is being posted from
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here. He is on leave at present, I think he’s going to Brighton – what a bind for him – bags of bull, thought I guess it wont be as bad for him as it was for us. We’re sure raving to lose him a real white man. – I wonder what kind of a D.I. we’ll get in his place.
St. Andrews holds its Warship Week this week & it was officially opened on Saturday with processions of the three services & bands, mechanical stuff driven by the Poles. Then followed a galaxy of Home Guard, O.T.C. A.T.C. A.R.P. W.V.S. & every single thing imaginable right down to the tiny “Cubs” & “Brownies”. There were two good pipe bands there – really smart, the only hitch was their timing was a good deal faster than that of the Polish brass band, who have a very slow step & it rather complicated matters. everything went off very well though.
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We spent the usual lazy Sunday, except for in the morning when we had to be ready with gas capes rolled, steel helmets on & all in readiness for a gas alarm. Then we surged out onto [deleted] [indecipherable letters] [/deleted] the green opposite & hung around for 3/4 hour. Whether they think we will be warned in advance of a gas attack & be able to have our kit ready I don’t know.
Today we had a thrill when we were issued with our flying kit, I suppose we wouldn’t be natural if we didn’t. It packs out a kit-bag & there are still some items left out & it is valued at over £50, our battle-dress was also issued. Should we fail to pass our exams we will have to hand all the kit back, which won’t be so good. The stuffing in the Triple lining is certainly warmth-giving we were literally sweating, still maybe at 20,000 feet its none too warm.
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[underlined] Thursday April 23rd. [/underlined]
The weather seems to have taken a turn for the worse today, and we have been pessimistically assured by local inhabitants that although St. Andrews is reknown [sic] for its bracing weather, it is by no means fine weather, so we are unfolding our ground sheets in readiness. The other day after rugger touch on the sands, we were allowed in the sea to wash our feet, & a few hardy chaps took the plunge. They assured us it wasn’t too bad, but it reminded me of the Arctic too much so I guess I’ll bide awhile before taking the first dip of the year.
On Tuesday it was Bill’s 21st birthday but as he had visited the dentist that day & had 3 teeth removed he didn’t feel up to a celebration so we postponed it until to-night. For three nights running now there have been clashes between C & D flights, & good old-fashioned pillow fights & raids.
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They are not so gentle as one reads of in School Stories, & last night, 2 of our fellows had teeth knocked out, one his mouth split, & one K.O’d. Still its great fun – we nearly had it on Wednesday though – somebody had what they considered a brain-wave & got 3 stirrup pumps in action. The Orderly Officer came up & caught us amidst a mass of water, & we should all have been charged by the Sqdn Ldr next day, but it was dropped.
They have made a rule that everyone must play some game on games afternoons – as a good few were always giving it a miss. On Tuesday they had some photographers from the Picture Post here to take some photos of the R.A.F. at work and play. We have almost finished our Hygiene, & the Law & are being tested in them next week. 7 failed Anti-“Gas but they resat & then passed”, for a change I wasn’t one of them.
[underlined] Sunday April 26th. [/underlined]
Our course is precisely half over & we have now reached the end of the fifth week & have another five weeks to go, as the last week consists of exams, we have four weeks of studying left. Bob has been happy, for his girl friend is on leave from the W.R.N.S. & came down here to spend 3 days, I think she returns to-morrow, he’ll be down in the dumps alright then. Different flights are constantly arriving here & we are getting quite senior, in fact we are the senior flight in 3 Squadron. ‘B’ flight arrived the other week & comprise of 1 W/O 4 sergeants 9 corporals 18 L.A.C’s, & A.C.1’s with a few A.C.2’s scattered around.
We celebrated Bill’s 21st birthday on Friday night, at the Conservative Club, & got slightly merry. That isn’t a bad club, but there’s an excellent
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club, called the “60” club, one of the most comfortable places I’ve been in. They had a ball at the Town Hall to close Warships Week – admission 10/- needless to say there was a scarcity of R.A.F. – I don’t know how much St. Andrews achieved I think they reached the mark though.
I had the misfortune of being on guard last night, and the orderly officer a canny swine, must have found out that between 7.30 & 9.30 some of the fire-pickets were always over at the N.A.A.F.I. Anyway he turned us out at 8 p.m. & two fire-picket fellows were missing – needless to say they’re on a charge, unless they can produce a perfect excuse.
On Monday we are having a test in Hygiene, & on Tuesday a test in Law, I don’t see the point of learning that stuff, but the powers that be have decreed it, and who are we to argue with such.
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[underlined] Wednesday April 29th. [/underlined]
The end of the month is on us, & in 2 days time we’ll be saying, “This month we take our exams”, as we begin to realise that we have only 3 weeks left to get moving with our studying, bags of panic are visible. We had our Hygiene test, but the Flt. Comdr put the Law test off – luckily for us as we know sweet fairy ann on that subject – I guess our sins will find us out.
For the Games afternoon yesterday as there wasn’t much on the programme Bill & I decided to walk 6 miles to the aerodrome of L –. We were lucky to get a lift right into the station & spent a pleasant afternoon looking over the kites & standing by watching the patrols take off. Boy! would I like to be on ops’ right now. Especially now our bomber boys are giving the Hun such a pasting at
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Rostock and Lubeck.
I had a letter from my pal at home today, & he’s finally received his papers for the Navy which was always what he wanted. I guess he’s as bucked as I was when I got into the R.A.F. The lucky beggar won’t have to go through all the bull-shine & exams like us though. Still I expect all that comes under our disciplinary course - & makes one obey orders without question which is very necessary in this game.
We are wondering if we can reserve some compartments on the London Express when we go home. As there are a good few of us travelling on it & we dont [sic] fancy a 10 hour stand. There has been a colossal wind blowing here lately & it makes Aldis Lamp reading a hell of a job as our eyes start swimming – I’m not so hot on that lamp. We have only had one period of P.T, & a cross-country run was cancelled so we’re not grumbling.
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[underlined] Sunday May 3rd. [/underlined]
Usual routine has brought another week to an end, time certainly is passing swiftly. This week, the Wing Commander began interviewing our flight with regard to recommending them for commissions. At an I.T.W. the Flight Commander, the Squadron Leader, & Wing Comdr. all make separate decisions whether a cadet is fit for a commission or not. My interview with the Wing Comdr. may come off to-morrow.
The weather is still glorious here, & after 2 hours P.T. & games on the beach, Friday Morning, some of us took the first dip of the year. I enjoyed that swim, although it was very cold. At present the bottom of the open-air swimming bath is being scraped, so we cannot swim in that, although I prefer that to the sea. It is sea-water & is filled every tide. But there are no waves one can get a decent swim in.
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‘D’ Flight received their maths results this week and it shook them rather. Eleven of them came a cropper, and out of those only four have been granted a second try. Two of the failures are remustering W.O.P./A.C.s and two are taking straight A.G’s. The remaining three had such a low percentage in the exam that they have been taken off flying training altogether.
The usual flight photograph was taken at the beginning of the week, but owing to the extremely strong sunlight it didn’t turn out too well, still we’ve had it. Alan managed to get an introduction to a [deleted] [indecipherable letters] [/deleted] flying officer on Beauforts at L-. Today he was taken up for 1 3/4 hours on torpedo dropping exercises, and he returned here full of it – boy! is he lucky. Owing to the fact that they are doing ‘ops’ most of the time it looks as though we will be unable to have a ‘flip’ – which is a disappointment to us.
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[underlined] Wednesday May 6th [/underlined]
Although we were assured by our Flt/Comdr that this would be a very stiff week and we would have lots of studying so far it has been the easiest week of our course. A lot of time-wasting subjects have been inserted even though we are only 3 weeks from our exams. Today we were supposed to go clay pigeon shooting & accordingly they sent 10 at a time down, but all they got was one hours instruction. Then they had a squadron photograph taken right in front of the club house, with a terrific wind blowing sand across the exposed links. So I guess half of the people in it will come out with closed eyes & distorted faces. One flight is taking there [sic] exams this week & go on leave Friday, so we have to have our Navigation in a temporary class-room which isn’t so hot.
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On Monday we had an Aldis lamp test and partly owing to climatic conditions, & partly myself I hardly received any of it. I have heard it ‘pukka gen’ that one really has to pass this exam & there is no wangling through – so I’m panicking alright. For a failure means not getting ones LAC & waiting here until we pass – which at this rate seems about Xmas. The other evening we had some boxing bouts, & my opponent had done a fair amount of it in peace-time. Still I acquitted myself fairly well, he split my lip, & I split his, & made his nose swell, so it was nice and friendly. As a minor distraction I have been inducing the hairs upon my upper lip to form into a moustache lately, but the results don’t seem too promising. I should have been on fire-picket tonight, but Mac asked me to change & go on tomorrow, as there was a lot of coal for them to shovel I willingly agreed.
[page break]
[underlined] Monday May 11th [/underlined]
Another entry into this rapidly growing diary of mine, and another week has slipped swiftly past. The room was half empty last week-end as Ron had a week-end pass to go and see his brother at Queensferry, and Bill and Bob slipped home for the week-end. Today we heard the far from pleasant news that our baa-lamb of a flight-sergt. who takes squadron parade, had been promoted to Station W.O. This shook us, & we’ll certainly have to watch our step. He sports the shoulder-title CANADA, although he may have seen those shores for about a week, certainly no more by his lack of accent, his disposition. Which reminds me it was our turn to be inspected by the Squadron-Leader to-day & after he had passed us, I nearly fainted when somebody pointed out, I’d omitted to wipe the dried polish off my buckle.
[page break]
Today we were given the most staggering piece of news & most momentous for us, we’ve ever received. The Sqdn. Ldr. told us all that the Air Command had decided that a second pilot in a bomber was a waste of a man as he was seldom used. He is to be withdrawn & a specialised man in bombing replaces him. He is the Air Bomber & in future Observers will only do Navigating & be Navigators. Should a pilot be wounded the crew are to fly it home on the automatic Pilot & then bale out at the base, & leave the kite to crash. It seems a fine waste of a £40,000 bomber to me. This of course we were told cuts the pilots required down to about half, & as they will have all those in reserve from the bombers, it will be a great chance if we even get a pilot – in fact we might never get a chance to fly at a Grading School – this certainly [indecipherable word] us I can
[page break]
tell the world.
Should the pilot be wounded & is a stretcher case – Lord knows what they’ll do for ‘em, they can’t let them crash. Why the obvious solution to train second pilots as air-bombers as well didn’t strike them I don’t know. For if he isn’t needed as a pilot as they say, well he carries his bombing duties out as they want. Then should the pilot be hit which is by no means uncommon, he is at hand to bring the aircraft back safely as the Air Bombers course is only a 60 week one it wouldn’t be much to add on a pilots course. Still I guess the powers that be have decreed it - & it is so. It isn’t our place to criticise knowing nothing about it really, but we can’t help but imagine the scheme is devised by some-one behind a big desk at the AM. However I’m praying to the Lord I will still make a pilot – but it seems awfully remote now.
[page break]
[underlined] Sunday May 17th [/underlined]
Haven’t been able to make an entry in this diary at all in the week, owing to hectic work. We only had two easy breaks, one on Wednesday when we went clay pigeon shooting, I just struggled along with an average score. Then on Friday we went on the range with .303’s, I had better luck then & managed to get 108 points out of a possible 125. My last card was the best – 10 rounds with no support – I got 8 bulbs & 2 inners. We have just about finished our Navigation syllabus, & will be able to get in a weeks revision before the big event. There is only a weeks practice on the Aldis Lamp left & we still aren’t able to pass the tests. It’s always the way on this course, bags of exams and bags of panic before them all. Still with luck we’ll see those ‘props’ yet.
[page break]
Our Flight Commander has started a childish sceme [sic] of points for the tidiness of rooms. The rooms are already smart & in order as this is compulsory, but he knocks off points for silly little things, a room which is obviously bad, often has its faults missed, & he has a most erratic system of points. It amuses us rather than irritates. Apart from these systems however, he is a really decent chap, and would do anything for us.
I was employed digging the garden the other night for speaking in the ranks. The chap with me, had had a good share of ‘jankers’ here, & was often in trouble. This time it proved his last punishment here. For he had 14 days for playing cards in church – quite a rip. Anyway as well as this he has been taken off the flying course. So to use the familiar term – “He’s had it”.
[page break]
[underlined] Wednesday May 20th [/underlined]
Today marked the beginning of the last week of intensive studying. Our flight-commander has drawn up a chart of our work throughout the week & we are getting lots of general study periods – and we need them. Lately we have had a great number of lamp receiving periods & although I am not able to pass tests I am getting a bit better. Alan was on fire-picket Tuesday, & was preparing to get ready for parade, when he had a great surprise. The corporal shouted for him & when he went down he found his brother standing there. He is a Spitfire pilot at present on delivery, & he brought a Spit. up to the nearby ‘drome and dropped in to see Alan, & stayed the night at a hotel. Alan promptly got his fire-picket changed and went out for the evening with him. They had a fine time.
[page break]
I visited the cinema on Saturday for the first time since I’ve been here, it was a neat little place. The film was “Rebecca” very old, but very good, & as I had missed it before, I took this opportunity of seeing it. Preparations are going ahead for the flight supper, next Monday, it should be pretty good. It’s a party & carousal combined with the Flt/Cmdr & Sqdn Ldr. there – but they’re both good sports. They have managed to get the radio going now & we are able to catch up with the swing music before proceeding on leave. I have arranged with Mary to book seats at two shows, so I should enjoy my leave, I only hope the weather remains fine. We have filled in the forms for our railway warrants, gee! if only we didn’t have to take all these exams before we went it would be heaven. Still such is life in the RAF.
[page break]
[underlined] Sunday May 23rd. [/underlined]
Our last clear week is over, & now we commence the fateful week of examinations, oh! well sink or swim we go on leave Friday. I think we should do alright, although we are not excellent at the subjects, still with God’s Help we’ll get through them A.1. We have the Aldis Receiving exam Monday, so it’s a bit of a baa-lamb to start off with, then come the rest of our Signals exams on the next two days. On Wednesday we have Armaments, then Thursday is a big day with Aircraft Rec. Law & Hygiene, this is a big sweep & leaves only Navigation on Friday. That is the one that is worrying me most.
It’s a funny thing we have done 9 weeks of binding for these and in one swift rush they will be all over and done with, anyway I intend to forget the word
[page break]
examination when I’m home and settle down & have a really good time. I’m glad Mary has managed to get her summer hols. at the same time. If we get embarkation leave after Grading School, that supposing with the help of the Lord we fly, I’m hoping she will be able to get more time off then, still its miles & miles ahead.
They are talking about what times the trains are from St. Andrews Friday, as they are only letting 10 travel on each train, to relieve congestion. This seems tripe to me for we can all come back together that makes no difference, & anyway there are only 53 in the flight & not all are going the same way. I hope that us who are travelling to London are able to get on a train early enough, to enable us to start queuing in Edinburgh to catch the [deleted] E [/deleted] London Express.
[page break]
[underlined] Friday May 29th [/underlined]
The great day has arrived at last, all the exams are over, though not forgotten, and in a few hours, we will all be proceeding on our various journeys, but each to the same place – home. It seems a long while to go 4 months without leave, & I guess it is really. I was right in the assumption that once the exams had commenced, time would fly by and it most certainly did. Last Sunday Ron took some snaps of us & of view-points around here, he’s just collected them and they came out ever so well.
This morning has been one mad rush, we were up early, and it would fall to my luck to have my turn to clean the wash-bowel, so I had to hurry alright. Promptly at 8.30 we were sitting in the Navigation rooms and we
[page break]
commenced the Navigation paper. It was a fairly stiff one, the stiffest we’ve seen for a while, but I think I’ve got through, I hope we all have. We dived in the Y.M.C.A. for the usual cup of tea, and paraded at 11 A.M. for pay, we drew a fortnights, being the week of leave, then we were paid £1 for ration money. After that we were given our passes & railway tickets, and there was nothing more to do but wait for our train, so here I am hanging around until 4.5 when we say goodbye to Scotland for a brief while.
I’m still praying that the weather will break as this doesn’t seem any too cheerful, still who knows it may turn out fine. I can see way across the valley a puff of smoke leaving Leuchars so it must be our train, & I must fly, next time I open this our treasured leave will be over.
[page break]
[underlined] Monday June 8th. [/underlined]
Back in harness once more, and naturally feeling ever so sorry that its over, especially as Mary has another week’s holiday & will have to spend it by herself. I had a grand time & marvel of marvels the weather broke at the beginning and we even had a heat wave, I never expected that, it looks like my prayers were answered alright. The journey to London was uneventful, we arrived Kings X – 8.10, an hour late, we had [deleted] a [/deleted] seats & that was worth queuing for. Returning to Edinburgh we arrived 40 mins late for no apparent reason, seeing that it was perfect weather, & we were on time up to Berwick where we stopped on a deserted part of the line for a quarter of an hour. The train from Leuchars should have gone
[page break]
at 8.35 P.M. but it waited for us, and we caught the last bus from Leuchars and arrived here at 11.35. We were dead tired, & hungry so after satisfying that need we made our beds & turned in.
This morning found reveille at 6.15 again, but we were so tired that we were unable to get up. Later I got up & started to shave (we all missed breakfast) when I was horrified to hear “On Parade” shouted, Bob & Bill dashed around & I rushed my shave & how I got down in time I don’t know. Then to put the tin hat on it, the Flt/Comdr. inspected us, just back from leave & not unpacked or anything, I thought that a bit thick. As my buttons weren’t cleaned I was put on fatigues tonight, still we can’t grumble. I’m only glad there wasn’t a room inspection right
[page break]
away, as my bed wasn’t made, and all my shaving kit was lying around.
We weren’t to be spared though for the Wing/Comdr. decided to have a room inspection so everyone had to fly to unpack & sort things out & get the general layout ready. Then we were paraded for the things we have been waiting for the exam results. Only 3 failed Navigation, one of them unfortunately being Ron Cooling in our room, they are going before the Sqdn/Ldr. tomorrow to see if they can have a second chance, I hope they get it. My marks were Navigation 80% Buzzer Sending 100% Buzzer Receiver 97% Lamp Sending 90% Lamp Receiving 97% Aircraft Recognition 100% Law 87% Hygiene 88% Armaments 90%. Then Anti-Gas & Maths results were added mine were 66% & 93% respectively, this gave me a total percentage of 89 9/11%. We should be posted as L.A.C.’s soon & then if we are lucky our prayers may be granted & we really might learn to fly.
[page break]
[underlined] Thursday June 11th [/underlined]
It is now a fully fledged Leading Aircraftsman who is writing this. Yes, our posting in D.R.O’s came through & we were issued with our ‘props’ & spent most of our games afternoon Tuesday engaged in sewing them on. As at Brighton they qualified us for expert house-keepers so we will be in the expert gardeners class when we leave here. Most of our time for there is not much for us to do is spent in knocking the garden into shape. I must confess that I haven’t put much time in, but I don’t see the sense in it. We are just doing anything that may enter our Flt/Comdr’s head, we had a route march of 8 miles on Wednesday at a pace of 130 per minute & to make an impression upon our return into the town he quickened the pace to 184.
[page break]
The only subjects we still take [deleted] is [/deleted] are Navigation, Signals & Armaments. At Navigation the course officially is “Revision”, but we have been bound rigid with lectures on the stars, gee! the flight lieutenant is a bit of a dope but he sure is a wizard astronomer. At signals we have done some Aldis receiving, and have learned a little of the Browning gun at Armaments.
We [deleted] h [/deleted] will have a lot of guards & fire-pickets to do when ‘D’ flight go on [deleted] g [/deleted] leave this Friday I guess. I was on fire-picket Tuesday night but we chanced it & slept up in our rooms. On Wednesday our room managed to get down for breakfast for the first time. On Tuesday we were up at 7.20. so I guess the effects of our leave are wearing off & were [sic] falling into the easy routine again, - gee did I say easy then I’ve developed the old soldier style already.
[page break]
[underlined] Sunday June 14th [/underlined]
So ends our first week back here, & it has drawn itself out so much it seemed like a month. The weather has been lousy, cold & rain & I’ve developed a beauty of a cold, having to muck around in the garden. The other day we had to fill in a pro forma stating our order of choice as to which other categories of air-crew we wished to remuster to if we failed as pilots. It appears we go on a Grading Course to Perth or Carlisle where we should go solo. We then get 7 days leave and are sent to an ACDC (Air Crew Distribution Centre) where we are told whether we are to become pilots or not. Somehow I’m afraid that there isn’t much chance of ever wearing a pair of wings, but I’m praying to the Lord that I might be one of the lucky few to get through.
[page break]
‘D’ flight have gone on leave & we watched them go with envious eyes. On Friday night special posting came through & 12 of our flight were on it, in a way I’m glad I wasn’t for they went straight away for 12 days embarkation leave yesterday, & the posting is supposed to be to Rhodesia. Bill, Bob, & Alan were on it, & Ron is being re-flighted & given another chance at Navigation (with the other 2 chaps that didn’t pass) so that leaves Carl & myself the only ones left out of our room. The eternal process of splitting up of friends always occurs in the R.A.F. I marvel how the chaps in the “Thin Blue Line” so luckily managed to stay together all the time.
Yesterday we had a most interesting 2 hours at navigation, it was on a machine called the
[page break]
Map Tutor. We were given a strip of cardboard with a section of countryside on it 30 miles long and 3 miles wide. We then saw it slowly slipping by on this machine painted on a moving roll of linen & we gazed through a glass panel & it gave exactly the same effect of looking out of an aircraft. Various exercises were given us to carry out such as E.T.A’s fixes etc, they even put a sheet of cotton wool over the glass with a few holes in it to give a cloud effect. It was an interesting machine, & beneficial too.
They have cut out the fire pickets & are having six on guard so that means we do just 2 hours each, no 2 on & 4 off etc. thank the Lord. – Today is Allied Nations Day & a procession has just passed similar to that of the Savings Week, the R.A.F. cadets swinging along in it with bags of ‘bull’.
[page break]
[underlined] Tuesday June 16th. [/underlined]
It has come at last, out of the blue a posting came. 9 of the remainder of the now depleted flight are going to Perth Grading School. While 19 more of us, including myself, “Knocker” Davies & most of the boys are going to Carlisle. So once again we are crossing the border though only just. It is No 15 E.F.T.S. I wonder what life is like there, we’ve heard that life is a lot easier than anything we have struck yet.
These last two days have been fairly easy ones for us with nothing to do. Five of us were put on to sand shifting for no apparent reason, & then at our break-time we weren’t allowed to
[page break]
go out. So we climbed up the face of the building in at a window & got out that way. Of course there was a stink about it & we were on fatigues all the afternoon.
In some ways I shall be sorry to leave St. Andrews for it is a nice place, yet I am feeling rather cheesed after 3 months here. On Sunday just as I entered church a voice behind me, called my name & turning round I saw one of the chaps from the office. I knew he was in the R.A.F. I never dreamt he would come to St. Andrews, it seems out of touch with everywhere so, To cap it all who should I bump into in the Y.M.C.A. but Ken Wyatt. He had been at Brighton ever since
[page break]
we left there. He was in ‘dock’ with pneumonia & had a bit of a hard time, then he went home for 14 days sick leave. His face was well sun burnt & he [deleted] ac [/deleted] certainly looked the picture of health, it’s a shame that he is 10 weeks behind in his course though, through the illness. Naturally he was all athirst for the gen regarding his course & his exams, so we gave him some & told him it wasn’t a quarter as bad as fellows made out.
Ron Cooling & the other two who are being re-flighted expect to go Thursday, and are pretty cheesed about it. I guess I would be too, being in their position, fancy having to face another 10 weeks up here, Ron has also been told by the Signals
[page break]
master (who always was a binder) that he will have to take his Signals [deleted] Couse [/deleted] Course again, for he failed on Aldis Receiving.
This morning we received our back pay for our ‘props’ & drew the magnificient [sic] sum of £5, quite a small fortune for us. In the afternoon we had to tog up in our best blue, for an inspection & farewell address by the Wing Commander. Tons of bull & he only dashed round to make sure our ‘props’ were sewn on. A flight of Poles were also there & it was interesting to watch them being inspected. They stand at ease until the inspecting officer reaches the man next to them, then they snap rigidly to attention, wait till the officer looks at them & then passes to the next chap, then they
[page break]
stand how they like once more.
The squadron leader came over in the evening & shook hands with all of us & wished us “Good Luck.” He is a real decent chap one of the best, if not the best officer I’ve ever met. We certainly were lucky to be in 3 squadron for our sojourn here. Our flight comdr. too gave us each a farewell chat & some useful tips & an invitation to look him up at any time at his home. It’s a pity we cant keep the same instructors all through our training – still there it is.
Well, time is flowing by and I must turn in for the last time here, & say goodbye to all the ground training & look forward to the real stuff. So with thoughts of ‘kites’ ‘solos’ ‘wings’ & various other magical dreams I say Good-Night.
[page break]
CONCLUDING BOOK 1 AND MY GROUND TRAINING
[page break]
[blank page]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Book 1, Commencing My Life in the R.A.F. up till the End of I.T.W.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Geach
Description
An account of the resource
First of David Geach's diaries, covering training in London, Brighton and St. Andrews from 9 February 1942 to 16 June 1942.
Format
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One handwritten diary
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Diary
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
YGeachDG1394781v2
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Brighton
England--Newquay
Scotland--Edinburgh
Scotland--Glasgow
Scotland--South Queensferry
Scotland--Perth
England--Carlisle
Scotland--St. Andrews
England--Sussex
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-02
1942-03
1942-04
1942-05
1942-06
aircrew
Beaufighter
bomb aimer
entertainment
faith
ground personnel
Hurricane
Initial Training Wing
killed in action
military living conditions
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Spitfire
sport
training
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/995/10626/PMossH1801.2.jpg
8fef87e0bf60954cc3caced45b9ca9a0
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/995/10626/AMossH181114.1.mp3
010bf15446d62b4b91fa96ccbdb97bc0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Moss, Henry
H Moss
Harry Moss
Description
An account of the resource
Twenty items. Collection concerns Henry Moss (1925 - 2020, 3041799, Royal Air Force). He served as an air gunner with 138 Squadron at RAF Tuddenham. Collection consists of an oral history interview, his flying logbook, documents and photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Henry Moss and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-10-30
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Moss, H
Requires
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Henry Moss, Flight Sergeant, served in the RAF between 22 October 1943 to 10 April 1946. He trained as an Air Gunner and was involved in bombing Kiel, Potsdam, Heligoland, and Bremen before taking part in Operations Exodus, Manna and Revue with 138 Squadron. Henry was demobilised in 1946.
Henry left school in Bradford aged 17½ just before the outbreak of war with no qualifications . He worked in a variety of jobs including a garment fitter where he made waterproof clothing for dispatch riders. Henry passed his National Service medical board and joined the Air Transport Corps which led him to choose to join the Royal Air Force.
Henry was ordered to go to Viceroy House in London to be fitted with his unforms and receive his inoculations before moving on with his next stage of his training. He was then posted to RAF Usworth in February 1944 for his primary training. This was made up of marching and learning to salute, and basic tests on arithmetic and writing to place recruits on their trade path. There were people from many different places around the globe. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/28928
Henry learned how to strip down and re-assemble a Browning gun blindfolded but found this a pointless exercise as at altitude, it impossible to manipulate the small parts of the weapon with gloves on.
After RAF Usworth, he was posted to RAF Pembrey to the Introductory Gunnery Course at 1 Air Gunnery School flying Ansons. He did not experience air sickness and enjoyed flying. While here Henry learned about ‘offsetting’ the release of the bombs and how to aim accurately. He was surprised to learn that from his own records that he had scored 98.5% in the exam. Over his time at RAF Pembrey, he fired a total of 300 rounds. Henry was finally selected as an air gunner/wireless operator.
Henry’s next posting was to (26 OTU) RAF Wing on the Vickers Wellington, where he crewed up. His first pilot made a mistake during a landing and while the landing was safe, the pilot was sent home. His second pilot was Sergeant Crawford who he felt safe with for the rest of the war. From here Henry went to the 1669 Heavy Conversion Unit RAF Langer on Lancasters, and 138 Squadron RAF Tempsford. Henry flew to Kiel twice; both flights were at night and while he was involved in the sinking of the German ship Admiral Sheer, he did not see anything. Henry flew operations to Potsdam and a daytime operation to the Naval base on the island of Heligoland. He can remember being able to see the other aircraft and watching the torpedo boats below; he thought the operation was a bit of a ‘dead duck’. Henry’s final operation was to Bremen when they were hit by flak but ‘nothing vital was hit’. Henry referred to Operation Manna as ‘Spam Runs’
After the war ended Henry was involved, as a camera operator, in Operation Revue which was the creation of a digital map on mainland Britain as an aid to town and country. Henry was demobilised from Personnel Dispersal Centre 100 having achieved the rank of Flight Sergeant. In total he completed 436 hours 20 minutes flying. He went straight back to his previous job as a garment cutter in Bradford, but he did not stay in contact with any of ‘his’ crew.
Claire Campbell
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: Right. So this is, I’ll just introduce myself. This is David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre interviewing Henry Moss at his home on, what’s the date? Right. The 14th of November 2018. I’ll just put that there.
HM: Yeah.
DK: If you just speak normally. Yeah. That’s looks ok. So, if I can ask you first of all Henry what were you doing before the war?
HM: [laughs] [coughs] I had all sorts of jobs before the war. I left school just before the outbreak of war. Being in, I lived at Bradford at that time.
DK: Yeah.
HM: I was just leaving school. The boys without any qualifications went into the mill. Worked in the mill. From the mill I worked in a greengrocer’s shop. From the greengrocer’s shop I worked in a dye works. And then I went into garment cutting. Making waterproof clothing for the Army.
DK: Right.
HM: Cape down sheets, and dispatch rider’s waterproofs. And I stayed in that until I was called up at seventeen and a half.
DK: So what made you decide on the RAF then?
HM: Oh, I always fancied the RAF. I was in the ATC.
DK: Right.
HM: Previously to the RAF. And from the RAF at seventeen and a half it must have been November time 1943, got my call up papers to report to Viceroy Court in London.
DK: Right.
HM: That was a big block of flats that overlooked Hyde Park.
DK: Viceroy Court.
HM: Viceroy Court.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: I forget what the district was now.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But it looked over Hyde Park. And the mealtimes, part of the building went to the zoo in Hyde Park —
DK: Oh right.
HM: And were fed. And others, like myself stayed in the building. We got kitted out there with uniforms, inoculations and all that stuff. And I think it must have been sometime early December we moved up. We moved up to Usworth. A primary training. Normal primary training. Marching, saluting and all that stuff. To let, to let you know you’re in the Air Force.
DK: How did you take to that? Did you like it or was it something you, because you would you have done it in the ATC?
HM: Oh, it was something entirely new.
DK: Right.
HM: I was a bit apprehensive at first going down to London. First time really away from home.
DK: Yeah.
HM: In Bradford. A small town. Well, I’m saying it’s a small town. It’s a big town now. All on my own in a strange, trying to find this Viceroy Court. I found it rather daunting. But once I got there I was alright. When it came to moving of course we had transport from Viceroy Court to the station. Train laid on for us to go up to Usworth.
DK: Right. That’s where you did your —
HM: Northumberland.
DK: That’s where you did all your square bashing was it?
HM: Did all the square bashing.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Initial training.
DK: So at this stage then do you have any idea of what trade you wanted to do in the Air Force?
HM: I hadn’t a clue about it.
DK: So you hadn’t been divided out yet as to pilots and —
HM: Pardon?
DK: You hadn’t been divided out. Pilots, navigators, and —
HM: Oh no.
DK: No.
HM: Not up to this point.
DK: No.
HM: No. You hadn’t a clue what. What it was all about. You did various tests. Arithmetic tests and a bit of writing and so on. They decided I could go as a wireless operator/air gunner.
DK: Ok.
HM: I forget the name of the place we went to now. Anyway, whatever it was we did basically wireless operator or learning the Morse Code.
DK: Right.
HM: Practicing that.
DK: So, so these took the form of classes then were they of Morse Code. Morse Code classes.
HM: Yes.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Mostly. Yeah. There were Morse Code classes.
DK: And how many of you would be in there for the class?
HM: I should think about a dozen.
DK: Right.
HM: All tapping away going beep beep beep beep beep.
DK: And was it something you took to then was it? Something you found easy.
HM: I didn’t find it particularly easy but I managed it.
DK: Right.
HM: And also between the learning the Morse Code was learning about the Browning machine gun. The 303 Browning. Taking it to pieces. What it did. How many shots it fired. What the effective range was. And learned all those bits and pieces. I didn’t think a lot of that was necessary because if you got a fault with your guns if its more than just cocking and trying it again.
DK: Yeah.
HM: You can’t do anything because it’s so cold up there and you’ve got your gloves on and the tiny pieces. I found some of that was a bit superfluous.
DK: So what did the gunnery training consist of then? Were you, were you actually firing the guns at targets?
HM: Not at that time. No. It was just sort of introducing us to the gun.
DK: Ok. Right.
HM: Learning about it.
DK: And just taking them to pieces [unclear]
HM: Taking them to pieces and putting them together again.
DK: Yeah.
HM: We got so we could do it blindfold. And that was —
DK: Did they, did they time you then as you were?
HM: Oh no. They didn’t time you but as it got near the end of the course you’d have done it blindfold and somebody would take a piece out and you’ll be feeling all over for it. But the Morse Code. I passed on that alright. Passed on that, and we went to [pause] I can’t remember the sequence we went in but eventually we went to —
DK: Was it the Operational Training Unit?
HM: Burry training. Burry Port in South Wales.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
HM: To an airfield there. And that was gunnery training.
DK: Right.
HM: More or less a first shooting.
DK: So what, what —
HM: The, it was a Martinet aeroplane. That was a single engine type towing a drogue.
DK: Right.
HM: And you’d go up in an Anson. I think it was four of us went up in the Anson. Took it in turns trying to shoot at the drogue. The way they could sort out who’s was what, the bullets were painted differently on the —
DK: Oh right.
HM: On the bullet itself so if it hit the drogue —
DK: You’d know whose it is.
HM: Red was yours. Blue was somebody else’s.
DK: Yeah. So did you, did you find, presumably that was the first time you’d flown then was it? In an Anson.
HM: That was the first time I’d actually flown.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Yeah.
DK: So what was that like then?
HM: Well, then again it’s exciting.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Starting to fly. And that was, that was the feeling most of the time. When are we going to fly? What’s it going to be like? Will I be sick? Will I get airsick or —
DK: And, and were you?
HM: That was a worrying thing. Some did.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Most of us didn’t but —
DK: You didn’t then.
HM: I wasn’t airsick at all.
DK: So what was the Anson like? Presumably it was a bit cramped in there with four of you at the back there.
HM: It was a little bit. Yes. I remember that it was each side of the fuselage there was a little table and two of you sat at the table. You did this shooting at the drogue to see how well you could aim it and fire it.
DK: Yeah.
HM: They told you about offsetting for the distance.
DK: Yeah.
HM: And one thing and another.
DK: And was it, was it something you were, you were quite adept at? Could you, were you quite a good shot? Or —
HM: Not particularly [laughs] I must have been adequate because I passed through all right.
DK: Right. So —
HM: Then again we did a bit of Morse Code but not much of it. You just keep refreshing yourself.
DK: Yeah. So, so at this stage you could have still been —
HM: Oh, I could have been turned down. Yes.
DK: Turned down. Yeah. Or you could still have been a wireless operator as well then.
HM: I could have been a wireless operator.
DK: Yeah. So after your training then in Wales where did you move on to next?
HM: That [laughs] I can’t remember these places.
DK: Don’t worry. Yeah. Would this have been the, the OTU?
HM: Yeah. It would have been the OTU.
DK: It might actually be in the logbook.
HM: It’s probably in my logbook.
DK: Let’s have a look.
[pause]
DK: Right. So just for the recording then I’ve got number 1 AGS Pembrey so that was Gunnery School.
HM: Pembrey.
DK: Pembrey. Yeah.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Air Gunnery School. It’s got your results here. You look like you’re quite good.
HM: Are they?
DK: Yeah. Exam result ninety eight point five percent.
HM: Oh, well that’s not so bad [laughs]
Other: Wow.
HM: Yeah. Is that the —
DK: So you’re —
HM: Oh, that’s when we went to OTU is it?
DK: That’s the OTU.
HM: The Lancaster.
DK: Ok.
HM: Yeah. They were the actual flights.
DK: So that’s the flights in the Anson then.
HM: That was the flights. Yeah.
DK: So they’re from June 1944 and it’s got how many rounds you fired here.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Three hundred rounds. So one to three tracers. Two hits.
HM: [laughs] Two hits.
DK: You’ve got eighteen hits here.
HM: Yeah.
DK: It says total flying nineteen hours and forty minutes. All in Ansons.
HM: In the Anson.
DK: Yeah. So that’s at the end of the training.
HM: That’s the end of the training at Pembrey.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Yeah. Then we went to —
DK: It doesn’t actually say does it?
HM: It doesn’t say does it?
DK: So you’re on Wellingtons.
HM: Operational Training Unit.
DK: Right.
HM: In Wellingtons.
DK: So for —
HM: Then you did the crewing up.
DK: Right. So can you say a little about the crewing up then? How you all got together to form a crew?
HM: Well, you were all in a room. You chatted with various people and somebody you got on with and you’d say, ‘Oh you’re a gunner. Shall we crew up?’ ‘Yeah. We’ll be alright.’ Then you look for a navigator, or the navigator were looking for gunners. Or a pilot was looking for gunners. You finished with a crew.
DK: So, and can you remember your pilot’s name?
HM: Yes. Colin [Runji?]
DK: Right.
HM: He was an Australian.
DK: Australian.
HM: He was evidently quite a sportsman in Australia. Although being English we’d never heard of him.
DK: So he was quite famous in, in Australia then.
HM: He was quite, yeah something in Australia.
DK: Oh, here we go. At the back it says it’s 26 Operational Training Unit.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Does that ring a bell? 26 OTU.
HM: That doesn’t mean a thing to me.
DK: Right.
HM: But if you look in the records —
DK: Yeah.
HM: You’ll probably find it.
DK: Yeah. That was on the Wellingtons then.
HM: Yes.
DK: So that was between July ’44 and November ’44.
HM: Yeah.
DK: So can you remember much about flying in the Wellingtons? What it was like?
HM: Yeah. Well, we did a lot of take-off and landings. Training for the pilot. The air gunners had nothing to do. They just sat in the turrets.
DK: Right.
HM: And hoped for the best.
DK: So were you, for these training flights then were you sitting in the, in the rear turret?
HM: In the turret.
DK: Yeah.
HM: In the rear turret or mid-upper turret.
DK: Yeah. Would you be in the rear turret when you took off then?
HM: If I was in the rear turret. We used to swap around.
DK: Right.
HM: Sometimes be in the rear. Sometimes the mid-upper.
DK: Yeah. So how did you find the Wellington then as an aircraft? Did you feel quite safe in it?
HM: Oh yeah. Yes. No problems with flying with it.
DK: Right.
HM: They [pause]
DK: But you felt quite safe.
HM: What can I say? Oh yes.
DK: ’Cause you mentioned earlier about an incident where the pilot landed and he shouldn’t have done.
HM: Yeah. That’s in the Wellington.
DK: Right. Can you just repeat that? What happened?
HM: Well, I don’t, I don’t think I made a comment about it because we didn’t know that until after the flight.
DK: Right.
HM: He just disappeared. And when making enquiries we found that he’d been sent home or whatever it was.
DK: So what, what had he done wrong?
HM: Well, coming in to land he was doing a circuit. He come into what they called funnels. The pilot’s flying nice and steady ready to land. Got the gear down, the flaps down, and you as you were approaching you’re supposed to watch for a verey pistol.
DK: Right.
HM: Or you’re supposed to notice it if was fired. Well, this particular flight there’s a red verey pistol fired and evidently the pilot didn’t seen it.
DK: So if he had seen it he should have gone around again.
HM: He should have gone around again.
DK: Yeah. Because why would, do you know why it was fired? Was there something on the ground?
HM: Well, it would only be if there was somebody on the runway.
DK: Right.
HM: Ready. Getting ready to take off.
DK: Right.
HM: So he was sat at the end of the runway. You sort of went over the top of him.
DK: So there might have been a collision then.
HM: Oh, quite possible.
DK: So he just, he went. So you got a new pilot then.
HM: So we, started well basically we went to the end of that course and then crew up again.
DK: Oh right.
HM: With another. Make another crew.
DK: So you had to crew up all over again.
HM: All over again. And then really start the course again.
DK: Oh. So this is, this is when you would have then got the Australian pilot
HM: That’s when we got —
DK: The second time around.
HM: No. The first time.
DK: Oh the first time. Right.
HM: The first time it was an Australian pilot.
DK: Right.
HM: Then we [pause] I put my glasses away, I want them.
DK: Have you’ve got his name there?
HM: Yes. [Runji]
DK: [Runji]
HM: Lots of different pilots.
DK: Yeah.
HM: As [Runji] Then flew there. Warrant Officer Wild. [Runji] [unclear] [Runji] Watkins. But, but [Runji] was the main pilot at, in the OTU.
DK: Right.
HM: [ ] [pause] at the end of the course as I say we crewed up again.
DK: Right. So that’s the second time.
HM: This is the second time around.
DK: Right.
HM: When we flew with somebody called [Adey?], Flying Officer Bond. Then we got Sergeant Crawford who ended up our pilot.
DK: So —
HM: We flew with him for the rest of the time.
DK: So Crawford became your pilot.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Second time around. Right.
HM: Yeah. And he was a sergeant.
DK: Right.
HM: Evidently, as far as I can make out he was in the Air Force when war broke out. He was an engine fitter on one of the [pause] no, on one of the [pause]
DK: A pre-war thing was it?
HM: The [pause] big water platform.
DK: Oh the Flying Boats.
HM: The [pause]
DK: Seaplane?
HM: Just had a new one. Must have been commissioned just recently.
Other: Aircraft carrier.
DK: Oh aircraft.
Other: Aircraft carrier.
DK: I’m with you. I’m with you. Right.
HM: He was on an aircraft carrier.
DK: Right. Ok.
HM: Somewhere out east.
DK: Right.
HM: And as soon as war broke out and he asked to be remustered.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
HM: And then he came back to England. Then he went out Canada for his pilot’s training. Did his training in various aeroplanes.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Then he came back to England and then finished up.
DK: At the OTU.
HM: Yeah. The OTU.
DK: So that was Sergeant Crawford then.
HM: Sergeant Crawford.
DK: And was he a good pilot?
HM: He was. Yes.
DK: Yeah. You felt confident then with him did you?
HM: I felt very confident with him. Something else. I wish I’d made more comments.
DK: Yeah.
HM: About what went on.
DK: So how —
HM: On one of the [pause] No. It’s not there. On one of the flights, it was a night time flights everything was going all right. Taxied round, end of the runway. Started taking off. Just got off the ground and he had to close one of the engines down. There was something overheating or something and Mayday. Mayday. And he just flew around and landed again on one engine. So he must have been a reasonable pilot.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: That was a bit scary. You didn’t know whether the aeroplane would fly with the one engine or not.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But he made a very good job of it.
DK: Yeah. So you felt quite confident with him after that.
HM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
DK: So did you have a conversation with him about what had happened to the engines, do you know or did you just —
HM: Well, it wouldn’t mean a thing to me.
DK: Right.
HM: It was a runaway prop.
DK: Yeah.
HM: I didn’t know what a runaway prop was. I still don’t.
DK: So after, how did you feel then about having to do the training twice? And have to go back again.
HM: Not very happy because it —
DK: No.
HM: The crewing up with [Runji] then having to go through it again.
DK: Yeah.
HM: That was annoying. But once we got —
DK: Crawford.
HM: Our pilot. Crawford. We were quite happy. We’d got a, we’d got a crew. We got on very well together.
DK: Yeah.
HM: And that’s the one on the, on the picture there.
DK: Ok. So just for the recording then just looking at your logbook then it says here you then went on to 1669 Heavy Conversion Unit.
HM: Yeah. That’s when we converted to the Lancaster.
DK: Right.
HM: And that was at —
DK: Langar.
HM: Pardon?
DK: Langar.
HM: Langar.
DK: Langar.
HM: Yes. Up in Nottinghamshire I believe it is.
DK: So that was at the Heavy Conversion Unit then and we’re talking February 1945. Is that? Or was it ’44?
HM: February. Oh it might have been.
DK: Yeah. Because that’s ’44.
HM: I joined the squadron in early March.
DK: Right. So the Heavy Conversion Unit then would be February.
HM: Langar, yeah. That was converting to the four engines.
DK: Right. So how did you feel? That was the first time you saw the Lancaster then was it? Close up.
HM: Yeah.
DK: And what did you think?
HM: Oh, we’re going up in those [laughs] How does it stay up there? But —
DK: So was it quite a change after the Wellington then?
HM: Yes. Because the Wellington, two engines it was a smaller aircraft. You think fine. But when you get to the size of a Lancaster. And in the Wellington you did evasive action.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But it’s hard doing evasive action in the Lancaster. A big aeroplane doing acrobatics. You wondered how it’s going to go but it went very well.
DK: Yeah. So you felt quite confident in flying in those.
HM: Yeah.
DK: I see here you flew as the mid-upper gunner.
HM: Yeah.
DK: What was that like then? What were the views like?
HM: Oh, the views was fantastic. I would say you could look all around.
DK: Yeah. And presumably it’s here that you got the extra crew because there’s more crew in a Lancaster than the Wellington.
HM: No. We still had the full crew.
DK: Oh right. In Wellingtons.
HM: We just had the same crew in the Lancaster as we had in the Wellington.
DK: Oh ok. So that was, that was just training then on the Lancaster just to get —
HM: Just training on the Lancaster
DK: Yeah. Yeah
HM: And getting used to it.
DK: Yeah.
HM: How to evacuate quickly and that sort of thing [laughs]
DK: Right. And then it’s got, looking at your logbook here we’ve then got March 1945 you’ve got to 138 Squadron.
HM: Yeah.
DK: So can you say a little bit about 138 Squadron? What they were?
HM: 138 Squadron is a mysterious squadron. As I say it was a Special Operations Unit before I joined. They were flying Lancasters. Before we joined they were basically Halifaxes.
DK: Right.
HM: And Lysanders. Their job was to take ammunition and food to the Resistance. So instead of going out in a bomber stream.
DK: Yeah.
HM: They’d go out in a single Lancaster to a field somewhere in France and drop the supplies to the Resistance.
DK: Oh right.
HM: Or the Auster. That was the single engined. Do you know the Auster?
DK: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
HM: Yeah. Fixed undercarriage. Single engine. If there was a special agent wanting to be picked up and brought back to England then they’d use the Auster.
DK: Right.
HM: Then again find somewhere. Find a field somewhere in France. Land. You’d probably drop an agent. Pick another agent up.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Pick one coming back then take off and bring them home.
DK: Right.
HM: Most of it was at night. Well, it was all night time. The nickname for 138 Squadron at the time was The Moonlight. Moonlight squadron.
DK: Right.
HM: Or Tempsford Taxis. Obviously they were based at Tempsford.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: And with the taxiing service in and out to France or Germany whatever. You got the taxi then.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But when, when I joined it was decided that they were not, it was after D-Day, that it was no longer needed because they take the agents in on the ground from there.
DK: Yeah.
HM: So they reverted to Bomber Command.
DK: Right.
HM: And that’s when I joined them.
DK: So by that point it was an ordinary bomber squadron.
HM: It was an ordinary bomber squadron. Yes. Whereas before, reading about it now when I, in the bomber squadron all the crews went to the briefing. With that there was just a pilot, navigator and bomb aimer.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Only those that need know knew where they were going and what they were doing.
DK: Right.
HM: So the air gunner would go along. Not knowing where they were going. They might discuss it amongst themselves.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But they weren’t supposed to. Go out and come back again but they weren’t allowed to discuss it with another aircrew.
DK: Right.
HM: Missions were never discussed between aircrews.
DK: So —
HM: It was very secretive.
DK: Yeah. So what, what then is kind of your role as an air gunner? What are you supposed to do?
HM: Yeah.
DK: On an operation.
HM: On an operation you just sit there in the turret scanning, looking for any enemy aircraft. Which I never saw.
DK: No.
HM: Never fired my guns in anger.
DK: Right. You’d have tested the guns presumably on the way over did you?
HM: You could do but we never did.
DK: Right.
HM: Well, we didn’t.
DK: Is that, I notice when you joined the squadron you’d gone on some training trips. One with an H2S radar.
HM: Yeah.
DK: And another one with GH bombing. Was that the GH bombing on?
HM: Yeah. That, that is basically for the navigators. Navigators —
DK: Yeah.
HM: GHS or HS2 and the Gee were all navigational aids.
DK: Right. And you’ve got something here. Just special training. You can’t remember what the special training was can you?
HM: Special training.
DK: Bit mysterious. Maybe you can’t tell me.
HM: I haven’t a clue.
DK: Ok. So looking at your logbook again then it’s got your first operation here was to Kiel.
HM: Yes.
DK: So what was it like then when you finally —
HM: Kiel?
DK: Got an operation?
HM: Well, it’s exciting. We hadn’t been in long enough. We hadn’t experienced a bombing raid. We didn’t know what to expect. I was excited. And well, we flew out. Nothing, nothing untoward happened.
DK: Yeah.
HM: There were searchlights and the flak but you expected that.
DK: Yeah. So you’ve gone out as the mid-upper gunner on this raid.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. And can you remember seeing much of the target itself when you were over Kiel?
HM: Yes.
DK: What was that like?
HM: Basically if that’s Kiel you flew across, it’s like, where Germany and Denmark. It’s —
DK: The border.
HM: What do they call it?
Other: Jutland?
HM: The prominence of Denmark.
Other: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: A strip of land.
HM: There’s a border it goes across.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Well, we flew across the part of Germany which was close to the border with Denmark. And as you’re flying along you could, you could see the fire, ‘That’s it. That’s it.’
DK: Yeah.
HM: That must be the target.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Now, yes. And no. That’s not it. And we were flying along and the navigator made a mistake or something. We flew past the target. When navigator realised that he’d gone wrong we had to do a loop.
DK: Right.
HM: The pilot wouldn’t turn around and go that way because he’d be joining the bomber stream. He’d be flying against them.
DK: Yeah.
HM: So he went around that way and joined the stream again.
DK: Right. So you went over the target.
HM: So we then flew towards the target.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Bombs away. Let’s go home.
DK: Could, when the bombs were dropped did you notice any turbulence or whatever.
HM: Oh yeah.
DK: You were flying up.
HM: The result was that bit of lift.
DK: Yeah. So you’ve come back from your first operation then though it hadn’t gone according to plan.
HM: Yeah.
DK: How did you feel when you got back?
HM: Oh, it’s hard to remember [pause] We just thought well that’s that.
DK: Yeah.
HM: That’s it.
DK: Job done.
HM: That’s done. The job done.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Wait for the next.
DK: And did you have to go along to a debriefing, or anything? Were you debriefed?
HM: Yes. When you landed you went to debrief. And the intelligence office, officers there. The crew was all there. What was your experience? Did you notice anything? Did you? How did it go? Or as I say we’d no experience. Just a, just a normal flight. Just flak.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: Just searchlights. But nothing affected us.
DK: Yeah.
HM: It was all going on around you but —
DK: So your aircraft was never hit by flak then.
HM: Not that particular time. It was later on.
DK: Oh, ok. Ok.
HM: That was on the [pause] about a few days later we went again to Kiel.
DK: Right. I’m just looking at the logbook here. This is —
HM: Yeah.
DK: Just for the recording. You’ve gone to Kiel on the 9th of April.
HM: Yeah.
DK: And it’s
HM: That was our first one.
DK: And you’ve actually got here the German ship the Admiral Scheer sank.
HM: Oh, that was the second.
DK: Was that the second one?
HM: That was on the second one.
DK: Ok.
HM: No. There’s two there. And the Admiral Scheer was sank the second. That’s why we went back a second time.
DK: Right. And did you see the battleship down there?
HM: No.
DK: No.
HM: No. We were too high.
DK: Yeah. So you did, let’s say Kiel on the 9th of April. Then the 13th of April Kiel again.
HM: Yes. That was when the Admiral Scheer was sunk.
DK: Right. And then 14th of April you’ve then gone to Potsdam.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Yeah. The following night. We thought that was a bit rough is that. Two. One after the other.
DK: Yeah. And then —
HM: But then thinking about it ‘43 and ‘44 when the bombing was really going, they’d be doing that every week. Three or four times a week they’d be flying.
DK: Yeah. And then looking at your logbook again you’ve then done a daylight raid because it’s in green.
HM: Yes. Heligoland. Heligoland.
DK: Heligoland. So that was on the 18th of April.
HM: Yeah.
DK: ‘45.
HM: That was [laughs] A bit of a dead duck.
DK: Right.
HM: Heligoland, I don’t even know where it is. It’s just, as I say Denmark land. Germany. And it’s just a little island.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Evidently, it was a naval spotting station and spotting transport where our ships were.
DK: Right.
HM: And there again, there was a little bit of flak. There wasn’t a lot.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Because it was such a small island. No searchlights evidently because it was daylight.
DK: Yeah. Could you see a lot more of the other aircraft then in daylight? What was the —
HM: Yeah. You could see them around you.
DK: Yeah. But presumably you couldn’t see them at night time.
HM: At night time you couldn’t.
DK: No.
HM: I did once.
DK: Right.
HM: Then again I should have made a note of it. At Heligoland you could see the torpedo boats feeding away out from the island. The island was just one cloud of bomb bursts.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: You couldn’t see much of the land for the smoke and debris from the bombs.
DK: So that was hit quite hard then.
HM: Pardon?
DK: It was hit quite hard was it?
HM: Yeah.
DK: You say you saw an aircraft at night.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Was that quite nearby?
HM: That was a night flight. There again I don’t know which flight it was.
DK: No.
HM: Because I never made a note of it. I was in the mid-upper gun, mid-upper turret and suddenly there was this shadow went up. We were going and it went up in front of us.
DK: Right.
HM: I recognised it as a Lancaster. At night time. No lights. No nothing but there was this shadow went up in front of us.
DK: Right.
HM: If it had gone up a minute or two later or we’d been a minute or two earlier we’d have —
DK: Collided.
HM: Real come to.
DK: Was that, was that a bit of a frightening thing to see then was it?
HM: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
HM: He was doing evasive action. I don’t see why they should do it at night.
DK: Right.
HM: Because you’ve got, I don’t know how many aircraft were on that raid but if you could have five or six hundred or the thousand bomber raid going over the target for some time. Granted the aircraft are stacked and the first ones would be higher, the ones behind them should be a bit lower.
DK: Yeah.
HM: But you’ve always got that creep. Someone’s got there a bit early. Some had got there a bit late. So there’s bound to be some mix up.
DK: Yeah.
HM: And if you start weaving about in a stream of aircraft. He, he couldn’t see any other aircraft.
DK: Yeah.
HM: All he is doing is just hoping for the best. His gunner must have seen something and told the pilot to corkscrew. But that was it.
DK: Yeah. Could have been, could have ended a bit disastrously couldn’t it?
HM: It could have done.
DK: So after that you’ve then done on the 22nd of April ‘45 a daylight raid to Bremen. Do you remember going to Bremen?
HM: Yes.
DK: And you’ve got here in brackets flak holes. Is that when you’ve been hit?
HM: Came back with some holes in it. Yeah.
DK: Right.
HM: Yeah.
DK: So what was that like then? When your aircraft was hit?
HM: Well it, quite normal. There’s plenty of flak, plenty of [pause] plenty going on and suddenly and there’s click click. ‘Has somebody dropped something?’ [laughs] No answer from the crew. Just as though you were driving along and somebody threw a stone at you.
DK: Yeah
HM: Or there was a mob throwing stones at you. But fortunately nothing, nothing was hit that was vital.
DK: Yeah.
HM: None of On the controls or oil pipes. It was just a hole in the fuselage.
DK: Right. Right. Was that anywhere near you? The hole in the fuselage or—
HM: I think it was actually by the bomb bay.
DK: Oh right. So almost underneath you then.
HM: Well, near. Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Just forward of the mid-upper gunner.
DK: So, so then you’ve got one more raid. What does that say? Operation the Hague. You see that one there. It’s a daylight one again. It’s a [unclear] one.
HM: Oh yes. Holland was starving.
DK: Right.
HM: They were all, they wanted some food. Somehow they made communication with the Germans. We could go in and drop food in Holland as long as we drove on a, or flew on a specific line.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Course. At a certain height. They’d let us go in and drop food and nobody would fire at us. Hopefully [laughs]
DK: So this this —
HM: So that was dropping food at the Hague. Holland.
DK: Oh right. Right. It is the Hague then. So that’s what became known as Operation Manna then.
HM: Operation Manna.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: We did that a couple of times I think.
DK: So that to the Hague then was the 3rd of May. And then you’ve got another one. Operation Manna on the 8th of May.
HM: Yeah.
DK: It looks like you’ve done two trips there.
HM: Yeah.
DK: Right. So could you see the people on the ground as you were dropping the food?
HM: Oh yeah. Yeah. You could see them walking about. There were civilians waving.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Looking up at you.
DK: So how did you feel about that then? Dropping the food after dropping bombs. It was it a bit different.
HM: Well, it felt a bit strange really seeing the Germans down there walking about [laughs] and you’re flying.
DK: So you could actually see the Germans down below as well.
HM: Oh yes.
DK: Yeah. So you were very low level then.
HM: Yeah. I think it was about a thousand feet.
DK: Right.
HM: Something like that. And then there was after that there’s Exodus.
DK: Yeah. Operation Exodus. So what was Operation Exodus like?
HM: That was bringing prisoners of war back.
DK: Right.
HM: We flew out. We flew to a base at Juvencourt in France. Picked up I think it was about twenty. Twenty ex-prisoners of war.
DK: Right.
HM: The sat around in the fuselage. We’d land. They’d come and climb in and find themselves a perch. Then we’d fly back again.
DK: Right. So how many of those trips did you do?
HM: About four or five I think.
DK: Right. And did you speak to the ex-POWs? Were they —
HM: Well, what we’d called, I mean to say you didn’t get much chance because you was in the turret. As soon as you landed it was basically loading them on
DK: Right
HM: And then taking off and coming home again.
DK: Right.
DK: So they were quite relieved to be going home were they?
HM: Oh yes.
DK: Yeah. Had some of them been a prisoners for a length of time do you know?
HM: I would imagine so. I’ve no idea. Like I said, we didn’t really get a chance to speak to them. Then again when you’re flying you can’t have a conversation.
DK: No.
HM: Because of the noise.
DK: Yeah.
HM: We could be this close. I could shout at you and not tell what I was saying unless you were watching me and could do a bit of lip reading.
DK: No. Just going back to that what were the conditions like then as a mid-upper gunner? Presumably you’re were very cold up there.
HM: It was cold. Yeah.
DK: What were you wearing?
HM: Well, you were wearing your normal clothes. In fact you got issued with some special underwear. Long johns and long sleeves.
DK: Yeah.
HM: There was a mixture of wool and silk. Climbed in to that and then your normal uniform on top of that, and then you’d have a padded, padded overalls thing on
DK: Right
HM: Like a boiler suit done up the front. And then you got your overall. The one that you see us wearing on some of the pictures I think. It’s just sort of a canvas flying suit.
DK: Right. So, so altogether then you flew well one, two, three, four, five. Five. Five operations.
HM: Five. Five operations. Yes.
DK: And then a couple of Manna trips and the Exodus trips.
HM: Yeah. Well, they weren’t counted as operations.
DK: No. No.
HM: The five as you go along. That would have been counted towards you —
DK: The tour.
HM: Tour.
DK: Yes. And that would have still been thirty if the war had gone on.
HM: Oh, it would have been thirty.
DK: So how did you feel then as the war’s ended? Were you quite relieved at that point?
HM: Yeah. I suppose we were.
DK: Yeah. And did —
HM: The airfield just, just erupted. I don’t know where they came from but there were verey pistols firing off all over the place.
DK: And just go back a bit. Did you meet any of your crew off duty at all? Did you get to know them?
HM: Oh yes.
DK: Yeah. So what did you do?
HM: Yeah.
DK: On your off duty time.
HM: We’d usually go along to the local pub. You get to know the locals.
DK: Yeah. And, and did you keep in touch with the rest of the crew after the war?
HM: No. We didn’t.
DK: No. No. So you’ve all gone your separate ways then.
HM: We all went our separate ways.
DK: You haven’t been in touch with them since.
HM: No.
DK: No.
HM: When I got married the wireless operator, I sent invites to them all but there was only the wireless operator turned up.
DK: Right. So —
HM: I heard later Howard, he’s always on the internet looking at things. Our pilot evidently emigrated to Canada.
DK: Right.
HM: And there was an obit. I’m presuming it was our pilot. There’s an obituary to a Flying Officer Crawford who had died in a nursing home. He was a bit older than we were. I think he was about twenty eight, twenty nine.
DK: Yeah.
HM: When we was only, I was nineteen.
DK: Yeah.
HM: So he was an old man.
DK: Yeah [laughs]
HM: Evidently this pilot officer Andrew Robertson Crawford had died in this nursing home in Toronto.
DK: Oh right.
HM: Who’d emigrated from England after flying with the RAF. That’s all that’s all there was it.
DK: Sounds like it would probably be him them.
HM: And a bit of what he’d done in Canada. He’d gone to college and qualified as some sort of engineer.
DK: Right.
HM: Although he was qualified with the RAF as an aero engineer.
DK: Yeah.
HM: He’d qualified as something else over there.
DK: So presumably you left the RAF quite soon afterwards then did you?
HM: Oh yes.
DK: Yeah.
HM: When I came home on leave I used to visit the place where I worked beforehand. The garment cutter.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: And one time I went the boss asked me, ‘Would you like to come out?’ I’d just met the wife then, or girlfriend and I said yes. He said, ‘I’ll try and see what I can do.’ Of course, if you’d got a job to go to and the boss enquired can you come home you were allowed early release.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
HM: So within about a week of that, seeing the boss and him saying yes I was on my way home. Demobbed.
DK: Wow. So it happened quite quickly then.
HM: Oh, it did.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Yes.
DK: Quite, quite unusual from some of the people I’ve spoken to. Hanging on for months before they got demobbed.
HM: If you, if you got a job to go to I believe it could be, could be done.
DK: Oh, ok. Ok.
HM: And evidently he wanted me back so —
DK: So, so how do you after all these years how do you look back on your time in the RAF? How do you feel now about it?
HM: Quite happy about it. I thought it was [pause] I thought it was a good spell.
DK: Yeah.
HM: It’s an experience you couldn’t have anywhere else. Yeah. It was quite, I found it quite a good experience.
DK: Yeah. You found it useful in later life then did you? Sort of that experience.
HM: Not really [laughs]
DK: Oh [laughs] Ok. I’ve just got your photo here.
HM: Yeah.
DK: I wonder if, are you still able to name, name the crew? So that’s, that’s to the recording here that’s a Lancaster of 138 Squadron.
HM: That’s a Lancaster of 138 Squadron.
DK: And that’s the one you flew on operations.
HM: Yeah.
DK: So do you know, can you name them all here?
HM: Yes. There’s —
DK: So that’s, that’s the ground crew presumably at the front there.
HM: That’s the ground crew. I can’t remember their names.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: That’s Ted Bramsgrove. He was the navigator. Then there’s me. Then there’s Tom Kelsall, he was the engineer. That was the pilot, Flying officer Crawford.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Eric Scott. He was the bomb aimer. Oh, what’s his first? Fry was his surname. He was the wireless operator. And Duncan MacGregor he was the other gunner.
DK: So he would normally be in the rear gun turret would he?
HM: Yeah.
DK: For the most part. Though you did swap over didn’t you, at times?
HM: We did swap over. Yeah.
DK: So they were a good crew then were they?
HM: They were. Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: Yes. He was a farmer. He was a school teacher. He was a shop assistant. I don’t know what Mac was.
DK: So quite varied.
HM: He was Irish. He’d come from Northern Ireland.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Belfast.
DK: So quite a varied background then.
HM: Oh yeah.
DK: Yeah. And that’s your ground crew there.
HM: That’s the ground crew.
DK: Yeah.
HM: Which looked after the aircraft.
DK: So did you have much to do with the ground crew at all? Or —
HM: Not a lot. No.
DK: No. You just wanted to make sure the aircraft was ok.
HM: You’d chat to them when you went out to dispersal to climb in.
DK: So that’s you there then. Second from the end.
HM: Yeah. Second on the left.
DK: Second on the left. Ok then, that’s —
HM: I’m thinking you must, I think Howard had that.
DK: Yeah.
HM: And he asked me what all the names were.
DK: Yeah.
HM: I think he sent that.
DK: Yes. If he hasn’t I’ll make sure he does.
HM: Yeah.
DK: That’s a great photo that. Ok then. I think that will do. I’ll, but thanks for that. I’ll turn off. Turn this off now. Thanks for your time.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Henry Moss
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-11-14
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMossH181114, PMossH1801
Format
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00:55:40 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Henry grew up in Bradford and left school just before the outbreak of war. He had various jobs like working in the mill, a greengrocer’s shop, the dye works and then garment cutting for the army. At 17 and a half was called up in London where he was kitted out and had the necessary inoculations. He had been in the Air Training Corps so chose to apply for the Royal Air Force. He was told he could be a wireless operator air gunner, trained in Morse code and learned about the .303 Browning. The recruits were sent to RAF Pembrey in South Wales for gunnery training where they worked on Martinets and Ansons. They then went to 26 Operation Training Unit to crew up and fly on Wellingtons. Henry spent time at 1669 Heavy Conversion Unit in Nottinghamshire to train on Lancasters as mid-upper gunner. He was posted to 138 Squadron which was a special operations unit working on Halifaxes and Lysanders aircraft dropping supplies to the resistance. They also dropped off or picked up agents in France. Their first two operations were to Kiel. Henry recalled a daylight operation to Bremen in 1945 when they suffered a hole in the fuselage from anti-aircraft fire. During the war they did five operations in all, plus trips for Operation Manna and Exodus. The crew did not keep in touch after the war. When Henry was demobbed he went back to work for the army garment firm.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Bradford
England--London
Wales--Carmarthenshire
France
Germany
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Kiel
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Julie Williams
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
138 Squadron
1669 HCU
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
Gee
H2S
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lysander
Martinet
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Langar
RAF Pembrey
RAF Tempsford
Resistance
Special Operations Executive
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/749/10748/ACookJ150709.2.mp3
e546cf9f2a3e4cbc2c2ae8d537348675
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cook, Jack
J Cook
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Jack Cook (- 2023, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator with 100 and 104 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cook, J
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: David Kavannagh interviewing Jack Cook for the International Bomber Command Centre 9th of July 2015. They’ll edit this at some point so don’t worry about a thing. So, if I could just ask you your background. Where you came from from before the war? What you were doing?
JC: I was born, I was born a few miles from Doncaster. A small market town called Mexborough. Actually, it’s between Rotherham and Doncaster. And at eighteen years of age, which was August the 20th 1943 I volunteered for aircrew. All aircrew were volunteers. A lot of people don’t realise that.
DK: So just before that. Had you come straight from school?
JC: No.
DK: Oh.
JC: No. I left school at fourteen and I worked in a [pause] what can I call it? Well, actually they were pawnbrokers but they were outfitters. Gent’s outfitters. They sold everything kind of thing. Until I was sixteen I worked there and then I went on the footplate which was the old LNER. I worked, I worked there. I worked there until I was eighteen and then I joined the RAF. I went to the attestation board at Doncaster and I wanted to become a rear gunner. But after the interview there was a squadron leader said to me, ‘Would you like to become a wireless operator/air gunner instead of just the air gunner.’ I said, ‘Well I don’t know the Morse code and I know nothing about wireless or anything like that.’ ‘Well,’ he says, ‘You’ve came out very well out in the attestation board.’ He said, ‘Would you like to?’ I said, ‘Yeah, I’ll have a go.’ So that’s it. That’s how I became training for a wireless op. And anyhow the course was a lot longer, the gunner’s course because I only arrived at the squadron a fortnight before the, or three weeks before the war finished. So actually I didn’t take part in any actively dropping bombs at all. I should imagine I was one of the youngest at that time of the war because I was only nineteen when we did a drop the food to the Dutch in Operation Manna.
DK: So you were nineteen in 1945.
JC: Yeah. I was. I was twenty in ‘45. But I was only nineteen actually when the drop took place in the April. And in [pause] we were on standby for the last raid of the war. Berchtesgaden, which was Hitler’s hide out up in the mountains. We used to call it his retreat. But we weren’t required because I expect we were just on standby if somebody fell sick you know and they put another crew in. Which they did.
DK: So which squadron was this?
JC: This was 100 Squadron at Elsham Wolds, Lincolnshire. And, and then in February 1946 we took the Lancaster. Oh just prior to that we were all in the briefing room and a squadron leader stood up and said, ‘There are quite a number of crews that are here today. Well,’ he says, ‘Three. We want three. Three crews. And it’s for being out in the Middle East. Taking the Lancs out to a place called Abu Sueir, not far from Cairo.’ And he said, ‘You’ll be there until your date of mobilisation is finished.’ So one lad, he said, ’ And what happens if we refuse to go?’ So he said, ‘Well, you’ll be up for mutiny.’ And Jack’s hand went up, I said, ‘When do we go sir?’ [laughs] Anyhow, we took the Lancs out there to Abu Sueir and it was a peacetime airfield that. And we were only there for a few weeks when we had to move down to Shallufa, in the Canal Zone. Right at the bottom near Suez. And that would be about the March of ’46 and I was there until ’47. The squadron, oh this would have been when this was when on 104 Squadron was formed out there. 104 Squadron. And we disbanded and I, the wireless ops at that stage, there was only one group every three months going, get back to England. Which, I was out there quite a while. We lost all the gunners. They didn’t want those. They didn’t want the bomb aimers. They went. And I finished up on Ansons. VIP run. And, and what’s the other thing. VIPs runs and mail runs. All over the Middle East we went in the, in the Ansons. And then my time for demob came up and I knew they’d made a mistake with my group. I knew I was 57 group and they’d got it down as 56. We were already packed up to go to the old transit camp waiting for a boat home. And we had prisoners of war in the mess. Damned good they were as well. Mind you they, they were very helpful. They couldn’t do, you know they were prisoners of war but they were damned good. And one of them came because our billets weren’t far from the, from the sergeant’s mess. Well, they spoke good English the three of them that were there. We weren’t a flight in the mess. A telephone. A telephone? I’ll bet they’ve found out the mistake they’d made. Anyhow, I went there and it was a squadron leader, somewhere from group there. He said, ‘I understand that your waiting to go.’ I expect the sergeant in charge of the mess had told him that I was waiting because he was a big friend, a big pal of mine. And he said, ‘I’m awfully sorry,’ he says, ‘But there’s been a mistake been made with your release group number.’ ‘Never,’ I said [laughs] so he said, ‘Yeah, but,’ he said, ‘I’ll promise you this though. Instead of when your time comes up in about three months’ time that you won’t be going with transport. You’ll be flying home.’ I thought ‘Yeah. I know.’ But he kept to his word and I was packed up again waiting for the garrie to take me to the transit where we had to wait until we got a boat. One of the Jerries came across and said, ‘You’re wanted on the phone. It’s someone from Group the sergeant says.’ So, anyhow I went there and yeah, ‘Well,’ he said ‘I’ve kept my promise,’ he said, ‘And there’s an aircraft coming. A Lancaster coming down from Palestine tomorrow.’ He said, ‘Are you ok for going on it?’ Well, I thought, well I thought to myself I’ve never been on a ship kind of that because we flew out there and he said, ‘I can’t wait much longer. The flight. I’m very very busy.’ I said, ‘Yeah’ I said, ‘Ok. I’ll take it.’ ‘Oh by the way,’ he says, ‘You’ll have to work your own way home.’ He says, ‘The wireless operator will be getting out and you’ll be getting in.’ And I was demobbed in forty eight hours. Amazing.
DK: So where did you come back in the UK?
JC: I came back to — where we landed the aircraft?
DK: Yeah. Where did you land?
JC: Silloth. Carlisle.
DK: Right. Ok.
JC: That was there, I don’t know whether it’s still going or not. And then I was dropped down there. Then I got a pass to Kirkham, Blackpool way, where I was demobbed. And then I was back. And when I — I forget how much leave I had to come but I went back on the footplate until 1961. And my wife had been in hospital. She’d had, for seven years she’d had mastoid operations all over the place and she went convalescing to Bridlington. And she was, she was a sister at Mexborough Hospital then. Where we lived of course. And she went there for a fortnight and towards the end of the fortnight the matron got on the phone. The matron at the convalescent home phoned me up and said, ‘I know all about your Jack.’ She said, ‘Connie’s been very, very helpful here. Although she’s convalescing she’s been doing a lot of help,’ she said, and my sister — that’s her sister, the matron’s sister, who was the assistant matron was leaving there to get married. And she said, ‘Would you come and take her place, Connie.’ So, Connie said, ‘Well, what about Jack?’ And she said, ‘Oh I’ll get him a job here,’ she said. Which eventually she did and I was manager of a fancy goods shop. A large one. One, two, three, four — about nine large windows. And I had a staff of eleven or twelve girls during the busy — only for about three or four months but I used to keep two of them on, the best two, all the years that I were there. And, you know they kept the shop clean and it was [pause] And then one day I was talking to the wife and we had two kiddies at this time then. In 1961 one would be, one would be still a baby in the pram. The other was four year old because there was four years difference. And I went for an interview at Sheffield because the shop was called Spalls and they had various. There’s one in Leicester. A Spalls in Leicester. The same family. There was this chap at Sheffield — he was in charge of the five northern branches. And I got the job and went to, and that’s how we came to Brid. Now this would be 19 no we hadn’t any kids then. No children then. ’51 we were married. I lost my wife seventeen years ago by the way, she was seventy three. ’61. ’51 I was married. ’51. So it would be fifty, fifty [pause]now you see how when you get old how you —
DK: I have trouble with dates [laughs] yeah. Late 50s.
JC: Yeah but it would be probably ’57.
DK: Right.
JC: Probably ’57 when we went to Brid. That would be it. No. No. No. I’m wrong on dates because my eldest lad was born in ’57 and the youngest one was born in ’61. He only lives at Bourne.
DK: Oh right.
JC: I think he knows — Is it Sue? She works at —
DK: Yes. Yes.
JC: I think she lives at Bourne.
DK: Yes she does. Yeah.
JC: And he’s the manager of the large estate there.
DK: Oh right.
JC: He’s three or four staff. That’s all, it’s not. And it’s a very, very good job. They started him at thirty thousand a couple of years back. He worked for Vodaphone.
DK: Yeah.
JC: For a few years. Because he did twenty five years in the RAF. And his wife, his wife — let’s see. She works at [pause] well it used to be RAF Cottesmore.
DK: Right. Yes.
JC: Where Maurice used to be as an engineer.
DK: Yeah. It’s the army, it’s the army barracks now isn’t it?
JC: It’s army barracks now. That’s it. Well she’s in the medical department there.
DK: Yeah.
JC: Now then where have we got to now?
DK: If I could just take you back a bit.
JC: Yeah.
DK: If I could just take you back to the Manna drops. How many Manna food drops did you actually do?
JC: I did two.
DK: Two.
JC: Yeah. At the racecourse. Both at the racecourse.
DK: Right.
JC: But Bill Birch mentioned it, that it was The Hague but I’m sure it was this, this racecourse where we dropped was at Rotterdam. But there again I might be wrong again. Or Bill could be wrong.
DK: Do you remember much about the reaction of the people on the ground?
JC: Oh yeah. Well it’s hard to be — you see we were flying at four or five hundred feet and they were stood on buildings and waving flags. Anything that they was picking up they were waving. And as I mentioned there we were that low I saw a couple of Jerries, of course, they’d be short of food as well. And they’d got their helmets off and were waving them on top, on the top of the buildings them as plain as — I can see them now. Yeah. And what else can I say about — well very little. Although we were very, we were low down and as I mentioned just a while ago that everywhere you could see water. Because with Montgomery coming up from the south the Germans blew the dykes up and flooded the whole area. So as soon as we were over the course kind of thing that was it. There was water behind us that we flew over and water in front of us. And then of course we did the drop.
DK: And perhaps if I could take you back just a stage further. After your training as a wireless operator did you go straight into the squadron or was there any —?
JC: No. What happened —?
DK: Was there a Conversion Unit you went to?
JC: No. What happened, what happens was you meet you meet your crew. You’re all in the mess and there were pilots and navigators. The whole lot you know. The crew members. Crews. And then you’re picked. You’re talking to one another. And my skipper he was a W/O to start with and they all got commissioned there later on as P/O’s. And I think he’d got the bomb aimer who did his training in Canada. He married a girl in Canada and they moved. They’re in America now. I hear from his quite regular. But I lost my mid-upper gunner two years ago. And they called him Chaplin. Warrant Officer Chaplin. His name was Dickie but we, Dickie Chaplin but of course he got Charlie. Charlie Chaplin you see. And he said, ‘Right,’ he said, ‘I want,’ you know, talking, he said, ‘Right I’m looking for a wireless op. Anybody interested?’ ‘Yeah. ‘Yeah.’ I put my hand up. ‘Come on, let’s have a look at you.’ You know, that’s how we got a crew in five or ten minutes.
DK: Do you think, do you think that worked well because you basically made up your own crews? You weren’t ordered in to a crew. You just —
JC: Oh no. They didn’t force you in. That’s how you, that’s how you met your family.
DK: And do you think that way worked well?
JC: Oh yeah. I should imagine there couldn’t have been a better way actually.
DK: Because it’s quite unusual in, sort of the armed forces to be able to do something like that by yourself [unclear]
JC: Yeah. It was far better than.
DK: Being ordered.
JC: You were in this group. You were going to. Yeah. Yeah. Far better. And you mixed together straightaway. And the comradeship. It’s hard to believe.
DK: So how —
JC: And actually had I, had I been a rear gunner or mid-upper gunner I’d have been on the squadron six or eight months before but it was such a long course at — well I did at Market Harborough. I did OTU at Market Harborough which is only about twenty five miles from here.
DK: So you were you at the OTU before joining the crew or —
JC: No. That’s where we, that’s where we met the crew.
DK: Oh right. Ok. So that was where, which OTU?
JC: I think it was 14. I think I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ll just get my, I’ll just get my logbook down. Thank you.
DK: Ok.
JC: And then I’ve got dates in where I — can you manage? Can you manage?
DK: That’s ok.
[pause]
JC: The only thing wrong with this place. There isn’t enough room David.
[pause]
JC: I think it’s in here.
[pause]
JC: It’s like going into Fort Knox is this [laughs]
[pause]
JC: Oh it works. I haven’t forgotten the number. It’s ages since I —
[pause]
DK: Are you ok now?
JC: Yeah. Thank you. These are the aircraft I flew in.
DK: Are they?
JC: Domini, Proctor, Anson, Wellington, Lancaster, Dakota as a passenger, Liberator as a passenger and a Boa Carlton as a passenger.
DK: Yeah.
JC: When we went out to India and did a few, three weeks in India. Right. Number 1 Radio School February ’44. What happened before that? Oh I was at ITW. Bridgnorth.
DK: Right.
JC: Then Radio School at Yatesbury in Wiltshire. Number 6 Advanced Flying Unit. Staverton, Gloucester. There’s the dates. 14 OTU Market Harborough October ’44 to February ’45. Then to 1156 Heavy Conversion Unit at Lindholme, Doncaster. Then to 100 Squadron. You see March ’45 so the war was nearly over wasn’t it? So I was, I was still only nineteen then. I wasn’t twenty until the August. Then 16 Ferry Unit Dunkeswell in Devon where we flew the Lancs out to the, out to the Middle East. Then 104 Squadron there. At Abu Sueir. Middle East Forces. April until July’46 squadron moved to Shallufa. That’s at the Canal Zone. Squadron disbanded 31st of March ’47. Then MENME ferry unit and MENME Comm Squadron and then demobbed in September ’47. Now, this logbook isn’t the original one. When we were at Dunkeswell to fly out to the Middle East once a month all the flying logbooks had to be signed by the CO. Wherever you were. And there were all in the flight office kind of thing and there was a fire. And the only thing [pause] of all the things were burned down although the actual number of hours were in and that’s what we had to do there. Now that [pause] number 16TH RAF Ferry Unit, RAF Dunkeswell. Number one logbook destroyed by fire January ’46. And we got that we had to put the number of flying hours in and then he’s checked it and signed it.
DK: And that’s taken from the burnt one.
JC: That was taken from the burnt one.
DK: That’s —
JC: And it was all checked. It was checked by the squadron leader.
DK: That a real shame it was burnt and lost.
JC: It is.
DK: That’s a shame.
JC: It is. Yeah.
DK: So, that only shows from ’46 onwards.
JC: This actually shows from, this shows from 11th of December ’45. Collection at Silloth. That’s Carlisle and —
DK: In a Lancaster.
JC: That was Lancs yeah.
DK: All Lancasters.
JC: Yeah. That was it. Lancasters. And each one, the logbook is signed by the squadron leader or somebody for the — yes it was a flying officer then. Charlie, Charlie Chaplin. And you know there’s all trips. Bombing. Greece, Italy. We had some good runs. [unclear] Pomigliano, that’s Naples. Bari’s on the east coast, way up in Italy. Back to Cairo, away from base. Bombing. Gunnery. Lydda, that’s Palestine. And there’s all kinds of trips, [unclear] Greece. Pomigliano and Cairo. Lydda transport flying. Flying a lot of troop in we did.
DK: Mostly with the Lancaster Mark 7s isn’t it?
JC: That’s a 7. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got a book and every Lancaster that was made, manufactured kind of thing and the number of it. I’ve got it. What happened to it?
DK: No idea. Mostly scrapped I would imagine.
JC: Most of them were yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JC: Kasfareet, Campo Formio, Italy again. Almarza. Bombing. Shallufa base. Lydda. Squadron moved from Abu Sueir as I said, down to the Canal Zone.
DK: Quite a few flights.
JC: Yeah. Where are we now? Abu Suier. Nicosia, Cyprus trooping twenty passengers. We’ve got Rome again, Ciampino. Some are quite a number of hours in August. You see a lot of , a lot of people, well all the aircrew when the war was over, the senior NCOs, I don’t know about the officers but they became LACs again. We were only given stripes for if we were shot down and you were treated as senior NCOs prisoners of war. Palestine, Almarza, Lyneham, Luqa, Malta. [unclear] Southern France. Diverted. Twelve passengers. Toulouse. That’s down near Marseille.
DK: Yeah.
JC: Ferry St Mawgan. Abingdon. Transport Luqa, Cairo, Fayid, Palestine. Khartoum. Almarza, Ciampino, Rome. Air sea rescue search — nine hours forty five minutes. That’s the longest.
DK: Do you remember much about that incident?
JC: Oh I do. Yeah.
DK: Was that —
JC: What you’ve got to —
DK: Is it the 21st of November 1946.
JC: What we had to do was do a box search instructions to the pilots like that but we did that and we were unsuccessful. So what he did then — he did [pause] and when we landed he got a real rollicking off the CO. Ten minutes fuel we’d left. He said, ‘Think about your crew.’ Anyhow we got, he apologised did Charlie.
DK: So you never found who was —
JC: No. We never found, never found them. No.
DK: And was, and can you remember was that you were looking for crew from a ship or from another aircraft.
JC: It was an aircraft. It was a York aircraft that came from — it was flying, now then, I don’t know where it had come from and where it was going. That’s beyond me now I just can’t get it. Aden, Khartoum, Eritrea, [unclear] Aden again, Almarza, Rhodes Island, Rhodes. Kalata was the airfield. Nicosia. From Nicosia to Kalata. The, the [pause] now what was he? He was security police. British. Well, a Scotsman actually and he lived in this castle and he invited us. I don’t know how long we were there. Landed the 4th and left on the 7th so we were there for three days. Something like that. And he invited us out, he invited us to his place for dinner. And what an evening. Anyhow, he said when you leave the next day, he said, or this was the following day that we were leaving, he said, ‘Fly down the main street if you will.’ To Charlie he said, ‘And let them know we’ve got an air force.’ And we did. Just over [laughs] just over the house tops. Oh it was amazing.
DK: So that was, that was in Nicosia in Cyprus.
JC: That was, no, that was from, we were in Almarza. We went to Kasfareet.
DK: Which is in Greece.
JC: No. Kasfareeet. That’s in Egypt.
DK: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
JC: Yes. Kasfareet. Then we went from Nicosia in Cyprus.
DK: So your low fly past was over Egypt.
JC: No. No. It was here at Rhodes. It was Rhodes.
DK: Oh very well. I’m with you.
JC: And then we went from Nicosia to Kalata in Rhodes.
DK: Yeah.
JC: And then we went from Kalata to [unclear] Then then back to Kasfareet.
DK: So your low fly past was over Rhodes.
JC: Over Rhodes.
DK: And this, this one is another date there on the 13th of February ’47 base to Habbabiya in Iraq. Almarza. Kasfareet. Base. Plenty of trips here. Khormaksar, Aden again. Luqa – Palestine. We were in Palestine. We’d not been out in Egypt only a few weeks when Charlie said, ‘Shall we go up to Palestine?’ He says, ‘I’ll get the wing commander flying to see if he’ll put a training trip on, drop us there and then collect us a week later.’ Which he did. And we went up there and that was the ruddy night in Jerusalem that they — I forget now what hotel we were at but that’s when the — was it the Stern Gang?
DK: The Stern Gang, yeah.
JC: Yeah. The Stern. That’s when they attacked. I think they blew the —
DK: The King David Hotel.
JC: The King David Hotel in Jerusalem and murdered a few paratroops that were in tents. Do you remember? Well, you will have read about that.
DK: Yes. I’m know of the incident.
JC: Yeah. Yeah. And he got on the blower the next day, he said, ‘I think you’d better fetch us back,’ and they put a kite on. And then it died down and about six or seven weeks later we went again and we saw all the biblical places. It was marvellous. I mean the places I’ve been. I think before I was, before I was demobbed I think I’d been in to twenty one countries.
DK: Yeah. And you would see these places before the mass tourism.
JC: Oh yeah. Yeah. yeah. It would have cost me thousands to have been. Mind you the only thing is I can remember very little about them. I can remember, I can remember Jerusalem and all the places where, where Jesus stopped with the cross. The twelve stops wherever it was. And the Church of the Nativity where He was supposed to be born.
DK: So what were your duties actually as the wireless operator? Just sort of explain. Sitting there.
JC: Well we used to well the main thing was if you’re going to be aborted somebody’s got to know the plane. That was it.
DK: So the messages were sent to you in Morse code.
JC: Oh yeah. And what other were — and every hour the people back here used to send out, and this was after the war of course ever hour we answered it. I used to get a report from the navigator to say where we were. You know degrees latitude, longitude and all like that. So we were in contact all the time.
DK: So this every hour message you got had to co — be the same as what the navigator said as to your position.
JC: That’s right. Yeah. And I sent it back then you see. Yeah.
DK: Looking back now how do you see your time in the Air Force?
JC: Well if I was in the Air Force again I wouldn’t like to be in this country. I would like to be abroad. That’s for the simple reason that life was easier out there. I mean we never, never did parades out in — unless it was something special. I always remember in this country before we, when we were in training Queen Mary, old Queen Mary, she was visiting the station. And for two or three weeks there was that much bull, you know, on the station. And the morning she came I think we were there a couple of hours before and we were lining all the way up to the officers mess where they were meeting and greeting her. And she went straight past in the car. And there we were. Absolutely soaked we were. We had the old capes on, you know. Oh yeah. Still that’s things like that.
DK: And the bull in the air force you didn’t, you didn’t like. The parades and —
JC: Well, I wouldn’t say I disliked them because they were a necessity because you can’t beat discipline.
DK: No.
JC: I mean our crew — I should imagine we were one of the best crews. Nobody was called Charlie, Dick or Brian or Trevor or Taffy. Not like we did on the ground. It was, ‘Hello skipper. Wireless op here.’ Blah, blah, blah, blah. And rear gunner, you know. A few days after the war we ran what we called Cook’s Tours and we flew the ground staff low over Germany to let them see the damage. And I said to, I went down to the elsan, it was just this forward of the rear gunner, and I said to the rear gunner, I said — I knocked on his and he opened his thing back you see. And I didn’t let anybody hear. I switched the intercom off and I said, ‘Is it going to be ok if I swap seats with you? You come and sit up, you know.’ I said, ‘I’ll ask the skip.’ ‘Yeah,’ he said, ‘Yeah.’ So when I got back I got on the intercom and mentioned and he said, ‘Yeah that’s alright.’ And just as I sat down in the rear turret we were going over Cologne Cathedral. Everything was devastated. It was just like St Paul’s when they missed that. Everything was devastated and there was the cathedral not touched. Another act of God. I used to think of it like that. Yeah.
DK: How did that make you feel to seeing the devastated cities?
JC: Oh, well [pause] I looked at it this way. A lot wouldn’t be leaving that strategic bombing that Bomber Harris did but he tried to win the war with bombing and it nearly succeeded. But what did him and he never, he was never made a lord or anything like that which the majority of them were was the Dresden do. They said it shouldn’t have been but it was war and they proved it afterwards. After the war was well over that there were troops there. So that you see, I mean, I mean you look at, you look at the Americans when they dropped the two bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That was shocking when you come to think about it but it saved millions of lives after. They’d had enough hadn’t they?
DK: Yeah.
JC: They’d had enough when that happened. Yeah.
DK: How many Cook’s Tours did you do over Germany?
JC: I think we went on two days. We only did two trips. Took them over and came back because we weren’t the only squadron that were doing it. There were other squadrons doing it as well. In fact I’ve got some photographs somewhere of the, of the places that the we must have had a photographer, a RAF photographer in our plane because [pause] are you alright for time?
DK: Yeah. I’m fine. Yeah.
JC: I’ll just I’ll just one of my albums. I do believe it’s in here.
[pause]
JC: Ahh here we are. I think it’s in here. Aye it is. Look it’s on the first.
DK: Yes.
JC: That’s the date. That’s it.
DK: So that’s the pilot. Chaplin isn’t it?
JC: 17th of the 7th ’45.
JC: Is that a seven?
DK: I think. It looks like possibly. Yeah.
JC: Yeah. This might interest you. Just to look at. That was one of them.
DK: Yeah.
JC: I think there’s another couple somewhere. Oh there we are. That was Essen. That was Emmerich. And what was this one? Wessel.
DK: Wessel.
JC: Yeah. Yeah. There. Look at the devastation there.
DK: And they’re photos from the Cook’s Tours.
JC: Yeah. Cook’s Tours. That was it. Yeah. They are official photographs there.
DK: Yeah.
JC: And these, this is at one of the 100, my squadrons, one of the reunions.
DK: That was Wyton.
JC: October ’85. That’s the year I retired because I retired at sixty. Haven’t a clue where I am there.
DK: 100 Squadron is still going isn’t it?
JC: Oh yes. It’s at Leeming.
DK: Leeming.
JC: I haven’t been this year. I went last year.
DK: Ok. What’s I’ll do, I’ll just stop the recording. Ok. I’ll say thank you for that.
JC: You’re welcome.
DK: Thank you. Ok.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack Cook
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACookJ150709
Format
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00:38:11 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Cook was born in Mexborough. He left school at 14 and went to work at a Gentlemen’s Outfitters. At 16 he worked on the footplate for LNER. At the age of 18 he volunteered for aircrew and trained as a wireless operator/air gunner; joined 100 Squadron at RAF Elsham Wolds two or three weeks before the end of the war. Consequently, Jack did not take part in bombing but was involved in Operation Manna, doing two drops.
In February 1946 three of the crews took Lancasters to RAF Abu Sueir in Egypt. After a few weeks they moved to RAF Shallufa, in the Canal Zone, when 104 Squadron was formed. Jack finished up on Ansons doing VIP and mail runs. He flew back in a Lancaster to RAF Kirkham via RAF Silloth, where he was demobbed. Jack flown in Domine, Proctor, Anson, Wellington and a Lancaster.
Jack married in 1951 and had two children, went back to the footplate until 1961. After that he worked as a manager of a fancy goods shop and eventually moved to Bridlington.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Lancashire
England--Cumbria
Egypt
Egypt--Suez Canal
North Africa
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-04
1946-02
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
100 Squadron
104 Squadron
14 OTU
air sea rescue
aircrew
Anson
Cook’s tour
demobilisation
Dominie
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Abu Sueir
RAF Dunkeswell
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Kirkham
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Shallufa
RAF Silloth
RAF Yatesbury
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1056/11435/AOwenA150603.2.mp3
c12ac4f6e9a9a8007ac138b17d654e1f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Owen, Taff
Aneurin Owen
A Owen
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Aneurin 'Taff' Owen (Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 12 and 153 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Owen, A
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: Right, so, this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Kavanagh, myself. The interviewee is Mr Owen. The interview is taking place at his home on the 3rd of June 2015. So, if you’d like to just describe your early life.
AO: Yes, well, my very early life started, of course, in Wales, as you might imagine with a name like Aneurin Owen.
DK: I was going to say. [slight laugh]
AO: And, um, it was near Dolgellau near a little village called Penmaenpool, that was our nearest point, near the farm. I was a farmer’s son and we farmed there in them days. And I can recall going to, walking about three miles to school, each way that was in those days with — in all weathers, but the thing was then, most children did in that part of the world in them days. Also, um, I was very lucky, I always thought, in them days. I had a wonderful teacher, er, a primary school teacher. We used to get to school wet through sometimes and she used to slip all our clothes off and get them dried for us with one of these old fashioned stoves, you know, the old tortoise stoves we called them and, er, she was brilliant with our — with us, certainly with me, and some of the other farm children. But I suppose looking back as well in that time — I left there about ten years of age or nine years of age, nine and a half — and, um, just before a year or two before I left, I came across my very first sight of an aeroplane which was flown in the very early days. I don’t know whose it was but he used to travel from Dolgellau to Barmouth on the Mawddach estuary to — all along the river there, and he used to look down from the cockpit, an aircraft flying with, along there, with an open cockpit. I assume it was a Percival Gull type of aircraft, something like that but I don’t know, of course, now what it was. I don’t know, even know, who it belonged to. But that, er, was my very first experience of seeing an aeroplane close too, I suppose. The very first one. Then we left there after Depression, the Great Depression, 1929 and ‘30, early 30s. I came to this farm in about 1934, nine years of age, took a farm in Husbands Bosworth and, er, we started dairy farming from there, from then onwards, because obviously dairy farming was an important event after the Milk Marketing Board just came into being in those days and gave us a monthly income. But, er, one of the jobs I had to do before going to school, of course, here, going to, to the school at Lutterworth, was to milk two cows in the morning and two when I got home from school, and most of the time it was my own [slight laugh] but, er, it wasn’t a very pleasant job, actually, to do either before going to school, I found, because it was a dirty job. The cows were dirty and you had a job to get yourself cleaned up again in time for catching the school bus you got in those days. But, er, it was a job I didn’t care much for, like, because me and my father didn’t get on terribly well, er, in those days. Well, er, one, if you didn’t do your job properly then you got a thick ear for it [slight laugh], for not been doing what you were told. But going back to the flying, the first aircraft I saw, of all things, I saw in about 1936 here, flying up above the valley was an autogyro. That was the first time I ever saw one and I think he was on his trials run. I think it about 1936, no later than 1937 anyway, and he used to come along the valley from Market Harborough to Rugby and then follow the line but the autogyro — I can’t remember now who designed it. It was wing commander somebody, wasn’t it? I can’t think who it was exactly but going from — and then, that period as well, what really fascinated me was being able to see Amy Johnson. She used to come with the, with the, their flying circus team to do, well, flying demonstrations and flying trips for people, I think, which were about ten shillings a time, something like that but it doesn’t sound much money today but it was lots of money in those days. And I used to go an watch them at an airfield just near Husbands Bosworth and, er, I’m trying to think, Alan —.
DK: Cobham.
AO: Cobham. It was his flying circus. It became an annual event, and of course one of the people who came was Amy Johnson with him.
DK: Oh right.
AO: And, er, I got to see them flying their aircraft. I assume he used to do these events for financial reasons, to help them go on their world tours, they used to do probably as well. To get enough money for that. But it fascinated me to watch these aircraft taking off and I thought that’s the life for me, sort of thing, at the end of the day but that was only around about 1936. Yeah, 1936 the Tomahawk, would have been and then onwards, as I say, I didn’t get on terribly well with my father. My father was a strict parent I suppose, er, in lots of ways and, um, so I decided, I thought well I won’t stick it with farming, I’m going to do something else in life. And of course the Air Force, at that time, wasn’t in my mind as such but I wanted to do something different to farming so I thought I’d go — I was friendly with a guy named George Briggs from Bradford, who were wool merchants, and I decided to go there as an apprentice in the wool trade but, of course, by 1938, ’39 time, you could see the war clouds are looming and the expansion of the military forces as well, so things looked a bit different altogether at that time, and anyway, by 1940, my father died all of a sudden in — he had a heart attack and he was only thirty-seven years of age. But I’d still made my mind up, I wasn’t going to stick to farming but I think that was probably a mistake in some ways, as far as my mother was concerned, but, er, I made my mind up and that was it, and once I was old enough, I volunteered for the Air Force, you know. That’s what — and then by the time I was about seventeen and a half [cough], excuse me, er, I volunteered for — well, I was in a reserved occupation, of course, being in the farming side, so I could only go into air crew or submarines. But, er, submarines I didn’t fancy, didn’t — I wasn’t any good at swimming anyway [slight laugh].
DK: Yes. I can understand. [slight laugh]
AO: But at the back of my mind, I just wanted to go — flying was in my mind, you know, as far as that goes, so off I went to — I was supposed to volunteer. It was on a Sunday and I went to Leicester, I think it was to start with, and found the recruiting office was closed but I’d cycled to Leicester from here but there was a notice there saying the Hinckley office would be open, so I cycled to Hinckley and volunteered from there and, in the meantime, I also joined the Air Cadets in Lutterworth, yeah, Lutterworth branch that was, and we were able to go from there to, um, to an ITW to fly in a Tiger Moth on one or two occasions. That was at Desford, that was, which is a ITW, Initial Training Wing for — at that time and, within a short period of time anyway, I got my call-up papers come through and I had to go to Cardington for an interview there and do medical tests and so forth, to see if I was suitable for air crew and I passed that alright but unfortunately they found out I was under age. I was only, I was about seventeen and three quarters.
DK: Did you have to be eighteen then?
AO: Yes. I had to be 18, yep, so I came — they sent me back home from there until I was eighteen in November. And, anyway, I had Christmas at home that year, 1942 that was, and they called me up in, um, [inaudible] my papers came before Christmas, to report to Air Crew Receiving Centre in London, at St Johns Wood, of course, Regents Park, so that’s where I went to have further tests, be kitted out there, and also to have more exams and medicals there and, unfortunately, they found out that I had a lazy eye, so that restricted me to some parts of the air crew section, so that’s why I went out a wireless operator in the end. WOPAG they called them as well. And from there, of course, I can’t remember how long exactly, three or four weeks there, I suppose, by the time I was kitted out and initial square bashing you might describe it, and discipline, and Air Force law and that sort of thing. And we went on to, um, Bridgnorth, into ITW, Initial Training Wing, where we did quite a lot of square bashing in there and also Morse code and, er, radio equipment, basic equipment that was really. The Morse code was the most important thing there because you had get to, to be assessed at eight words a minute to pass there fairly quickly and then, er from then we had to do eighteen words a minute, but you only got one chance. If you failed you were out, sort of thing, you know, so that was it. You didn’t get a second chance. I don’t remember many having a second chance anyway at all. About three months there, it was altogether, in early 1943 and, er, we moved then to, to the Radio School in Yatesbury in Wiltshire. I think it was Number 2 Radio School, yeah, Number 2 Radio School, I think it was. That was quite a big unit that was there and, of course, we had to learn all the theory of radio and everything else there and also continue, of course, with our Morse code and, er, coding system, plus the procedure of Morse code as well, which was important of course. And then we had quite a long time there at Yatesbury, unfortunately, because the, um, this course was about a year-long altogether, after the theory part and then the practical part of it. We did a bit of flying then, eventually in Dominie aircraft bi-planes. That was our first part of flying in there and then we continued then as we progressed further, we went on to Proctors. And they had three different airfields there at Yatesbury. They had the main one for the Dominies on the main airfield, then another one which was called Town End, the Proctors used to fly from there, and then another one on occasion we had to go, which was miles away, was at Alton Barnes in the, in the Wolds, in the Downs, the Wiltshire Downs. Three airfields operated from there, actually, altogether and we used to be able to take a cook with us to Alton Barnes, because the local crowd [inaudible] there. We took a cook from the cookhouse with some meat and potatoes and they used to cook it for us, you know, in there, out in the open field with all mud [inaudible] early type of bake house, sort of thing, they had in there. And then after I finished, after Radio School — unfortunately, I did catch chicken pox in there and that set me back quite a bit. I was about nineteen, I suppose, eighteen or nineteen there. Again it was ‘43, late ‘43, that was, and I caught chicken pox and that put me on the sick list for quite a few weeks, you know. I’d be in the isolation hospital for a while as well so that when I came back from leave after sickness, sick leave, I had to go back and do another the course. Because I’d missed so much when I was sick, so I had to go back on another course then. But eventually I travelled from there to, of all things, from Calne in Wiltshire up to Scotland, at West Freugh, which is near Stranraer, which is an initial flying unit and gunnery school as well there. I was still doing gunnery, of course, at that stage, as well, in those days.
DK: Was the idea then, as a wireless operator, you were also an air gunner?
AO: Yes, there was, yeah. WOPAG, yes. Although there was a signaller’s course, but I think they did drop the air gunnery bit eventually but we were still doing it then, air gunnery course, yep. Yes, um, we travelled from Calne. I always remember that journey really well because, well, I’ll go back and tell you one thing I should have mentioned to you in London. I got fed up in London because of the air raids, I had to go in the shelter every night I was there so I was glad to see the back of that and, of all things, when I left Yatesbury, er, we caught the train in Calne and there was a carriage of us, of, of us, travelling up to Scotland. I can’t remember the number, actually, but the carriage was pretty full anyway and, er, we got as far as Bristol and got caught in an air raid there, so got stuck there for two or three hours in the, in an air raid. And so, we eventually moved to the next stop was Crewe where we had refreshments and then carried on to Carlisle, further refreshments there, then on to Stranraer where they picked us up. We didn’t get there until about twenty-seven hours later, it was, the journey took us altogether. And, er, we were rather late getting back into camp, to West Freugh, and there was police there. There was transport for us there that picked us up at the station. Then from West Freugh, I suppose — I’m trying the think how long we were there for, er, about two months I suppose it’d be, roughly, there, yeah. And I finished the — I think I did more gunnery there, probably, than anything else. We did do quite a bit of wireless work, flying out over the Atlantic, over Northern Ireland on the radio, in the Ansons there. And, er, one situation was, we had an engine failure with, with no land in sight anywhere so we had to go back to the nearest airfield there was and it happened to be Tiree. We was, we was stuck there for about five days whilst they flew another engine out that had gone US with us, you know. And, er, then after then we finished there and I went to my first OTU, on to Wellingtons at Peplow, in Shropshire. That would be around about 1945, August, early August in ‘44 that would have been. Yeah, we were in Peplow for — we started training then, more or less, straight away in Peplow and, um, unfortunately I’d been there a week or two and my sister got killed in an accident, you know, so I had some leave at that time to come home for a few days and then I returned to Peplow, but not long afterwards — let’s see — the airfield was rather, one of the boggiest sort of places, very — and it wasn’t very suitable for the aircraft or they didn’t seem to be and they decided to close it down and they moved us to, well, to various OTUs all over the place and ours was the one to, our group went to, er, Lichfield, which was 27 OTU, that was. And as a matter of fact, that was a very good base to get to because they were mostly Canadians and Australians there and, of course, the food was a lot better than what we’d been used to. Obviously they were getting a lot more imported food from somewhere, anyway, for them particularly, the Canadians there. And it was a very good base to work, and my flight commander was an Australian as well, Squadron Leader McIntyre. I’ll always remember him. And that’s where we finished our OTU with him. Not long after being in Lichfield, I was having problems, or we were having a bit of problem with the navigator a little bit, because my fixes and bearings that I was getting on the radio weren’t, tying, tying up completely with the position the navigator was getting on his, on his Gee chart and I thought it must be me. I kept double checking everything I was doing and couldn’t find what I was going, doing wrong but, anyway, one morning coming back after a training flight — quite a long flight it was, about 4.30 in the morning we got back — and, er, the navigation officer was waiting outside the aircraft for us and he said, ‘I want you all in my office.’ he said, ‘Before you have your breakfast.’ And, er, he said to the navigator, he said to go through his chart again, with his fixes and that, and what he was getting on this Gee, Gee reading. You had to get two readings and you got different coloured lines [inaudible] on the Gee chart and he was going along each one with a pencil and then coming back again, taking quite some considerable time really, whereas he should, should be able to do it a few seconds but he was taking quite a long time doing it. He said, ‘What are you doing that for?’ He said, ‘I can’t see the different coloured lines.’ And that was the answer to his problem, you see.
DK: I’m assuming he was colour blind or —
AO: He was colour blind, yep. Yeah, he was colour blind, yeah, and —
DK: I mean it should have been identified earlier, in his medicals?
AO: Yeah. In fact they checked his records, the, the, er, navigation leader checked his records and, of all things, it was recorded in his medicals and he was only to be trained as a navigator but, of course, when he, when he joined up it didn’t matter. I suppose that he was colour blind but, of course, when Gee came out, it did and he just couldn’t tell the difference. The reds and greens, I think he was confused completely you know.
DK: Yes. Colour blind is reds and greens.
AO: And he just could not — and that’s why it was taking such long a long time then, of course, to get his fixes. By, by the time he got his fix sorted out, we’d travelled probably another ten or twelve miles or more, yeah. So we had another, er, a spare navigator then. He, he had come from Pep— yeah, from Peplow with us actually, he had been, and he was the sole survivor of a mid-air crash in Wellingtons. He was a fly— flying officer and he was a very, very — well, probably one of the best navigators I ever flew with. He was a very good navigator. He was a maths teacher, I think, before the war and, er, Flying Officer Junior, Jock Junior his name was, and he only flew a few trips but his nerves broke down again with him on, er, one very bad night, we had on a cross country trip and it was very wet, gale force winds were blowing, and we had a bit of trouble really getting back to base because we were facing a head wind of over a hundred miles an hour, sort of thing, in this gale, you know, at that height and unfortunately he cracked up completely after that. So, so we had to get another navigator then, that was our third one, to start all over again and this — we’d already been in OTU, how long now? I’m trying to think back now, probably, er, six weeks probably, another month or two, yeah, we’d been in OTU nearly three months at that stage. We should have been finishing it nearly. We got an Australian navigator then and that seemed fine but, of course, had to go through the whole course again with the navigator and, er, it was the end of the year or early January before we finished our OUT, then, at Huddersfield. Early January ‘45 that would have been. And we went from there then, at that period, into a Conversion Unit, Heavy Conversion Unit. He wants the name there.
DK: OK. OK.
AO: Heavy Conversion Unit at Lindholme, onto Lancasters, and that was a different aircraft altogether, you know, a different world completely from the Wellington. I wasn’t all that keen on the Wellington because we’d had so many problems and so many losses at OTU, [inaudible] the casualty rate was horrendous sometimes.
DK: Was that your first close-up of a Lancaster then, was it?
AO: Yeah, in Lindholme, yes it was.
DK: What was your first impressions when you saw it?
AO: Yes because it was a very big aircraft too. Your first impression as you walk up to it, you know, a massive thing. And the first flight or two I had — it was a different thing altogether. It was a beautiful aircraft to fly in, comfortable and —
DK: Did you feel more confident?
AO: Oh, far more confident. A lot more, yes. The Wellington had been, been troublesome. We’d had lots of problems with them, you know, maintenance-wise, where probably the aircraft were worn out, most of them, as well but there was a lot of problems with them. And as soon as you got in a Lancaster — I remember one of the first flights I had to do very early on, was with another pilot who was taking another trainee pilot with him. For some reason they got me as a wireless operator because he couldn’t fly multi-engine aircraft. They had a wireless operator, of course, in them days. That was one of the [inaudible] you had to be, so they got me out of the office somehow and I went off with them on this flight and I always remember the, the feathering engines in turn for practicing and it was still a stable aircraft, you know, altogether and they feathered, I think it was, it was three engines eventually, and then the very first one that they started, failed to start so they had to get the other two started quickly —
DK: At one point you were flying on one engine?
AO: On one engine, yes. But it was still, it was still manageable that was, that aircraft, yes. You would, er, you would probably have travelled, according to the instructor, quite a distance but losing height gradually, it would have gone quite a long way on the one engine. But, anyway, they got the other two engines going and we made a landing on three engines with no problem at all. And I heard them saying that the balance was — wasn’t a lot different to the full engines from losing one engine there on the one side and, possibly, if you lost both, both engines on one side I think it wouldn’t, I think the aircraft would still be manageable but you’d trim it, you know, to being able to fly it reasonably straight and level, yeah, but it was such a big improvement, you know, from the Wellington. It was a very big step, it was. And then, eventually, from Lindholme, we went then to — how long were we there, at Lindholme? I’m trying to think now, um, probably about a month or so I should think, at Lindholme. Yeah, it might have been longer, might have been six weeks, I should think, there at Lindholme altogether, because it was January, or late January, when we got there to start the training. And then at that stage, of course, there seemed to be a lot of air crew coming through the training system at that stage as well. There was a lot of us about and, er, I suppose they were looking for a base to send us to and they sent us to Sturgate for a short period, and it was a holding unit for air, for air crew. We were there only a few days. It didn’t seem many days before we were posted to Scampton, to 153 Squadron. But we settled in there very, very quickly, there was no — well, going from Lancaster to Lancaster, there was no problem. It was a good base, Scampton. Well it was one of the pre-war bases. A good building, good accommodation there, the food was excellent as well there and we were well looked after. And we had a Canadian wing commander, squadron commander there, er, Wing Commander Powley and, er, he met us, introduced himself to us as soon as we got there. But a lot of new crews came in, in March that — and I think it was the worst, probably the worst period in the history of the squadron, March and early April. We lost, in March alone, we lost seven Lancasters and the crews and there were two more Lancasters that were struck off charge. They were so badly damaged they weren’t worth repairing. As a matter of fact, my, a friend of mine, a Flight Lieutenant Wheeler (he was a pilot), I remember him saying — I think it was about that period when he had a third, very bad mishap. He was shot at by night fighters and I think the third one, I think he had to leave it. He had to make a forced landing back of the lines in Belgium and got back about three days later. And I remember, what was his name? Flight, Flight Lieutenant Baxter, the engineering officer, er, going out the mess one morning and having breakfast where Wheeler was, and his crew members with him, or two or three of them were, having breakfast there and he tapped, and Baxter tapped him on the shoulder just as he was going out and said, ‘Wheeler, if you’re going to carry on like this I’m going to start charging you.’ He said. [laugh] I always remember that bit. And then, of course, our very, our first raid — well, I’ll go back to where we were losing these aircraft and Powley then decided to put his name down on the next battle order and, er, I think he felt morale probably getting — people were getting a bit jumpy, all these losses in, in one month. And, unfortunately for Powley, he took John Gees crew and he was shot down, well, a few days later. Early April that was, in, er, on a mining trip. And on another aircraft, Flight Lieutenant Winder was with him, a deputy flight commander. He — they were both lost. Two out of five aircraft went and two were lost and he was one of them and then, a few days later, we, er, I went on a Kiel raid then, that was our first trip out that was on —
DK: That, that was your first operation?
AO: Our very first trip, yep.
DK: How, how did you feel before that as your first operation? Can you remember your sort of feelings of —
AO: Yes, I was just feeling anxious to get on with the job as much as anything, get the war over with, sort of thing because we could see the war was coming to an end, at that stage, and we’d just started as well having, er, lectures on survival. And the Tiger Force were planning to go out there, to the Far East, of course, at that time. It would have been just about that period it would have been, early April time, I suppose when we —
DK: So, um, Tiger Force was actually mentioned quite early on then, before the defeat of Germany?
AO: Well, before the defeat of Germany, definitely, yes it was. Yes, we were having it on — the plan was once Americans, I think if I remember rightly, it was a long time ago now, but once Okinawa was cleared, you know, of Japanese that was, sort of, one of the nearest islands we’d get to get near Japan. That was the idea of it, I think, initially. We wouldn’t have very far to travel from Okinawa.
DK: So, you were always expecting, after Germany, you’d go out to the Far East?
AO: Yeah, within a short period of time we thought, you see, yeah, within —
DK: Sorry, I’m interrupting there, but back to Kiel as your first raid and after that —
AO: Yes, after that. Yeah, the first raid, as I say, we went to Kiel and, um, I always remember that, because obviously, the first one very well and we were carrying, I think, twelve or fourteen five hundred pounders and a four thousand pounder and then it might have been four two fifties, I think it was, two fifty pounders. They were armour piercing bombs. The idea was, we were after the submarine pens ideally [cough] and then I remember the approach of it very well. We hadn’t met much ak-ak fire on the way, one or two, particularly as you turned. We turned different legs, zig zag course, of course. We didn’t go direct to Kiel but did a zig-zag course to it, of course, and we did come across ak-ak fire in one or two places we weren’t pleased with, but getting to Kiel seemed very quiet and I could see the time was, zero time was coming up for our target time, and there was no sign of the master bomber and there was nothing at all, and I could see pretty well in the dark, but there were no markers or anything going down and there was the one searchlight, a stationary searchlight, immediately in front of us. I always remember it was a master searchlight which has a bluish tinge to it and, um, I thought, ‘I don’t like the looks of that at all.’ It was directly in front of us, in our flight, and a few miles ahead and before we got to it, it went off, switched off, and blow me, immediately we got over it, it switched itself back on again and we were caught right in the middle of the beam and, of course, the other searchlights came on to us and we were caught in the beam. But at that stage we’d started our bomb run from the Kiel canal and we were going up to the submarine pens, but still no markers going down. But just at that point, as well, everything seemed to happen at once. The master, master, bomber’s voice came over to bomb the centre of the greens. We saw the markers going down and he said immediately bomb, bomb the centre of the greens, so we carried on with our, er, bombing run, got it completed and, of course, once the bombs had gone, been released, from the Lanc, I felt the four thousand bomber go because that was under my feet because I was standing on my — on the seat above me. I felt that actually go because the aircraft just went.
DK: Could you feel the aircraft go?
AO: Yeah. We had several probably, and two or three under my feet and then, um, we went to corkscrew immediately after. We didn’t have time to take a photograph of the actual — from a photoflash and, er, we corkscrewed out of that one and we dropped about two or three thousand feet and, for some reason, all the searchlights went off all of a sudden. The master searchlight went off. Whether the power plant had been hit, that’s the only thing I can think of, but why would a power plant supply all the other different searchlights as well? I don’t know why they went off but they did.
DK: You’d think there’d be a separate supply, wouldn’t you?
AO: Yeah. You’d thought so but I don’t know, never did find out. But I was just glad to get out of the master searchlight. That was the main thing because he’d locked on to us, you see, with a radar controlled searchlight. And then from, as I say, once that had gone off we gradually pulled out of the, er, pulled out of this corkscrew and gradually climbed back on to course again to fly, to fly over sort of Denmark, to the North Sea. And while pulling out, oddly enough, we were flying back over Denmark, over Kattegat, and it was just where our squadron commander was shot down a few nights before. I didn’t know that at the time, I found that out afterwards. And then we got back, you know, and no aircraft were lost, not in our squadron, anyway, that night, but there was a few, quite a few others got shot down but we all got back safely. And then, er, I eventually carried on from there to — I was going to say, on the Tiger Force but, er, we were still having these lectures, not many, just a few. I can’t even remember how many we had now but there were a few of them. And mainly if you were shot down in the jungle, what to eat, what not to eat, jungle survival, in other words. And then, on the, around the 21st the April, I’m pretty sure that was about the right date, when Lord Trenchard came to visit the base, you know, to give us a pep talk, supposedly. Well, at that period we were still doing some practice dropping of food supplies for Holland, you know, for the Manna drops. We, we were certainly doing them at that stage. We’d just about got it sorted out by then because there was some mistakes made. One of them was, a week or two before Lord Trenchard came — I’m trying to think of the guy’s name, Flight Lieutenant — oh dear, dear. He only died two or three years ago. His name will come to me in a minute. Langford, his name was. He went off to do a demonstration at an airfield to show some top brass how it was done, and he went badly wrong, unfortunately.
DK: Was that dropping food?
AO: Dropping the food supplies that was, yep. I don’t know what sort of containers he was dropping because I wasn’t there at that point, but I know it went badly wrong. I don’t know what happened but, er, he nearly dropped it all on the staff car and all the brass had to run for their lives [laugh] and get out the way. But anyway, by the time Lord Trenchard came, about 21st of April we’d got it and we gave a demonstration for him in the morning, er, and I’m trying — now I can’t remember whether we had our parade before then or after. Oh, I think it was after then, we did this demonstration for the food dropping for him, the Manna drop, when Lord Trenchard came for that bit for the day and I remember we had to put our best uniforms on, of course, you know, all these buttons and brass, badge and everything else, all of us to greet him on the parade ground and he inspected us on, on the parade ground. Late in the morning that was, and we gave a demonstration for him which went very well, on food dropping, to give him some idea how it would work. Then, after lunch that day, he, um, he give us this talk in the station cinema. He had, he had — by then there was another squadron at Scampton, 625 had arrived, only, not many days, or a week or two before. So there was two squadrons based there and we all had to pile into the station cinema and he, um, gave us this pep talk to congratulate us on the work that we’d been doing and so forth, and then he said, ‘Anybody think [inaudible] time on Tiger Force, I’m afraid you won’t be going off, not, not immediately’ he said, ‘because if the Russians don’t stop in Berlin, Bomber Command will be the first line of defence, you know, as a reserve there, so we’re holding you back into reserve for that period.’ So, I thought, ‘Blow me. That’s my Far East trip has gone to pot now then.’ That’s the first thing I thought straight away.
DK: Was there a, a genuine worry, then, that the, the Russians would have kept going west?
AO: Well, there was, there was quite a bit of talk in the mess about it which — and there was, there was a fear of it, that the Russians would not stop there. They’d keep going west. And, er, I think Patton had got that idea as well and I think he was prepared for it, General Patton. I think he was —
DK: How did that make you feel then, that there could have been a continuing war, not just the Germans but the Russians and then the Japanese?
AO: Yes, we thought the European war would never be done because I could see the Russians would have taken some beating, although at least by that stage we had a lot American fighters for protection at that stage as well, which was quite good, er, and in quite large numbers as well and also the latest Spitfires, of course, with the Griffin engines and that in them. They were a better aircraft altogether for defence and escort and that’s why I thought going to the Far East, I thought it would have been fine going to the Far East because, obviously, the defence of Japan was nothing like the Germans had and also the Americans had a very good escort, a fighter escort there. But anyway, that had to go to pot, that idea, out of our heads anyway. And we didn’t have a lot more lectures after that regarding the, the Tiger Force. It went very quiet around I remember. I don’t remember having many after because that put the tin hat on it, I suppose you might say.
DK: Obviously Tiger Force never came about because of the dropping of atomic bombs, did that make you sort of feel — how, how did that make you feel that the war wasn’t going to continue in the Far East?
AO: Well, you see, we were still hoping to go to the Far East, of course, until the atomic bomb was dropped but, er, when things settled down in Europe as it — much better than they anticipated I think, at the time, because if the Russians still kept going it would have been a huge problem obviously. But, er, of course, at that stage the, military-wise, we were pretty strong and the Americans were, of course, at that stage so that we just couldn’t see the Russians making much of an advance with the opposition that we’d got in front of them, particularly the air power as well on our side at that stage, and anyway we were still hoping to be able to go to the Far East, oh, right until probably end of, end July, early August. When was the atomic bomb? Middle of August, something like that.
DK: Early August the bomb was dropped.
AO: Once they dropped the atomic bomb and that was it. I thought, ‘That’s it, the war’s finished now.’ That’s —
DK: How did you feel at that point, relief?
AO: Yes, I suppose. I don’t know the feeling I had about that because we were quite happy, I certainly was, I was quite happy with the Air Force life. I hoped to stop in it for quite a while.
DK: How many operations did you actually do over Europe?
AO: I only did seven all together, yep.
DK: And were Manna drops —
AO: Manna drops as well, but the Manna drops, the very last one actually was on May the 8th , and if you look on, on the internet you can find out through Pathe News records there’s a Lancaster flying over St Paul’s cathedral on VE Day morning and, oddly enough, it’s got to be us going over St Paul’s because when — after briefing that morning, I remember my pilot said, ‘I’ve just had a word with the squadron commander,’ he said, ‘and I’ve asked him for permission to fly over London this morning to see if there’s any celebrations going on.’ And he said, ‘Yes, no problem at all, so long as you behave yourselves, you know.’ And, er, we flew down over London that morning, early morning, and you can find out on, on the internet these days and it’s got to be Lancaster ‘C’ Charlie from 153 Squadron. I’m pretty sure it’s that one and we were on our last journey to Holland, on our very last trip on VE Day morning, and of course the end of the war came back and I don’t remember —
DK: Just going back to the Manna drops do you remember, um, seeing the Dutch people?
AO: Oh yes, the Manna trip, very much so, yes, particularly on the — well, the first one was a race course in, um, in the Hague was the very first one, and then, yes, the last one wasn’t — and then the rear gunner said next time I’m going to take my camera and take some shots, you see, because we were flew very, very low level at that stage. You can read the time on the church clock as we went by, you know. We were low enough for that.
DK: The only reason I say that because I met, a few years ago, a Dutch lady, who was a girl at that time, and she was in awe of the RAF coming over dropping the food. She was only eight or nine at the time and she said she was reduced to eating tulip bulbs and daffodil bulbs and said, you know, seeing the planes come over and the Germans who were still there not firing on you. That was a huge relief to her.
AO: Yes. Yes, they had the ak-ak guns silenced. You can see the guns traversing round following us, you see, but they didn’t fire and, um, I saw several Germans of course, with their rifles on their shoulders, you know, bicycling about on the roads and that. I saw two or three of those about and, er, as I said, but the Dutch people there, how they didn’t get injured I’m sure. They were running on the fields, picking food sometimes, and the food was dropping round them, some of them, particularly in Rotterdam that was, more than the Hague I think, if I remember rightly, because the next three drops was at, at Rotterdam it was and the last one of the war was on VE Day morning was at, er, at the Hague, that was the racecourse at the Hague, yeah. But there was, they were waving to us, you know, and cheering like mad, the Dutch people were, and rushing on the field, on the edge of the food, picking this food up and it was still dropping from the air.
DK: It must have been a marvellous sight, seeing you come over, dropping the food?
AO: Yeah, it must have been for them to see all these aircraft coming close together, you know, and very, very low level, about two hundred feet or —
DK: What she said to me, she said that what, what really gave them confidence was looking, seeing the Germans not firing on your aircraft and knowing it would all be over soon.
AO: Yeah, but the biggest shock I had really, on looking back on that, was how much of Holland was under water, been flooded and it was dreadful, it really was. Why the Germans did that, at that stage of the war, when the war was more or less lost, and then to breach the dykes like they did. It looked to me as if half of Holland was under water, you know, but you could see vast areas of it, just farm houses, you know sticking up, and that’s where they were. Yeah.
DK: So the war’s ended now, um, how, how did your RAF career go on after that? Were you in the RAF for much longer?
AO: I stayed in till the following year. We, we were fortunate because we were — they picked several crews out. I think it was, how many? Eight or ten crews, to do field trials, or user trials, on H2S Mark 4. Yeah, we went, started on that, just about when the atom bomb was dropped there. Once the end of the war came then we were transferred under that, more or less straight away, to do that work and then the Squadron, 153 Squadron and 46 was disbanded in September, I think it was, September ’45 and I don’t know what happened to a lot of the crews but we were, the ones that had been chosen to do the field trails on H2S Mark 4, we were transferred to 12 Squadron at Binbrook.
DK: And was this your entire crew that moved over so they were all the same guys?
AO: Yeah, Ted Miles our navigator, was an Australian and —
DK: So you got yet another navigator [slight laugh]?
AO: Yeah, we had to get another navigator at that stage, yep, and Mark Bass, he went but, oddly enough, I think just before the end of war, as I understood it from [inaudible] I had been recommended for a commission, and also my navigator had as well, and he was — but, of course, the end of the war came and the Air Force more or less put everything on hold regarding, er, any promotions at that stage because, obviously, there was a lot of surplus crews about all over the place, all over the world virtually, and then the Australians and Canadians, the bulk of those would be going home. Well, Mark, my navigator, he went to, to pick his commission up. His was, er, carried through. He had to go to London, I suppose, to the, to the Australian — what do you call the —
DK: The embassy?
AO: Well, yeah. Not the embassy, you called them. Well, I’m trying to think what they called them in them days, but anyway, he picked up his, um, commission up and he, he didn’t come back to squadron again. He, you know, more or less went straight back to Australia on the next boat home I think, so he didn’t stay here long at all. So, unfortunately, we didn’t see him to — see him before he went, you know. We assumed he was coming back from London but that wasn’t the case, unfortunately, and then we had another navigator, of course, from then onwards, and another spare one, because all, as I say, nearly all the Canadians and Australians went back. But our signals leader, who I was very friendly with, was a New Zealander but he stayed on to the end, until the squadron disbanded. But what happened to him after that I don’t know because we went off to Binbrook and he went in another direction somewhere and, er, we stayed there at Binbrook then until ’46 before the trials had finished, all these H2S trials.
DK: Where were the trials done then? The H2S Mark 4 trials?
AO: Yeah this was, this — we finished the trials. Most of them were — well, we went all over the country doing the trials, all over the place, in all weather conditions as well. Also taking a lot of photographs of the screen itself to record the various towns and cities all over the country as well.
DK: Just in the UK?
AO: Mostly in the UK, yeah. And, er, when that was finished some — I came out then. I was under, under Class B, because they wanted me back home, unfortunately. Class B was a reserved occupational status again. I should have came back and agriculture came back very early compared with some of the other crew and they stayed on. They were on Lincolns then, flew on Lincolns.
DK: How did you feel about leaving the RAF at that point?
AO: I wasn’t very happy, no. No, well, I was quite happy where I was. I was doing a flying job there, which I thoroughly enjoyed, flying quite often, not every day but quite very often anyway and I was quite happy to stay in the Air Force and, er, I was considering a life probably in the Air Force but anyway they wanted me back home again. Let’s see, my father had died 1940, then my sister in ‘44 and I think it left my mother in a rather tight hole, so there was nothing for it but for me to come back home farming and I then stuck to farming the rest of my life.
DK: So how old were you by the time the war had finished then?
AO: I’d be twenty-one in, um, in end of, end of November ‘45.
DK: Not even twenty-one? [slight laugh]
AO: [slight laugh] Yes, yes.
DK: So, from then onwards was, has your life been on the farm?
AO: Yes, mostly I’ve been on the farm since then, yep, but same farm. I came to this house here, I came here in 1957 I came here, so I’ve been here ever since.
DK: Have you, have you remained in touch with your crew at all or —
AO: Yes. I keep touch. As I say, my navigator died about four or five years ago but I was constantly in touch and went to visit him in Australia as well. And my pilot is still alive. He lives in Majorca at the moment, but unfortunately the poor chap’s got Parkinson’s disease and he’s very, very deaf as well, probably due to the Lancaster engine noise, probably. I don’t know. And the other, the rear gunner, I was in touch with him. I picked — I lost contact with him altogether. He was in the farming world and I picked him up about — not far from Duxford, he lived in the end of the days but his life was a bit of a tragedy. He’d been adopted and his life was messed up completely and going from one place to another and had a lot of problems with family life and he died a few years ago. I did go and visit him a year or two before he died. And then the rest of the crew I haven’t been touch at all with them. I say, I knew, once, the bomb aimer, Norman Kirkman. He was a professional footballer before the war. I think Preston or Burnley, one or the other. Preston I think it was, and he came to, er, visit on a weekend in Leeds with my old pilot. But me and the pilot, old pilot and navigator, were the only ones in touch all the time, constantly in touch, while we could and were healthy enough to travel about. And Bill Edmonds came from Australia each year for several years to the reunion in Lincoln.
DK: Do you still attend the union— reunions, the reunions for your squadron, do you still attend those?
AO: Yes. We used to travel — when they first had them at the war. They started the reunions more or less after the end of the war and I missed the out first ones few to start with and they used to travel about to different parts of the country each year, er, in February-time. And then my first one was about, around about, 1956 I went to Doncaster. They had one there. And from then onwards it — a great lot of guys to be with, of course, been with them during the war years and they were good company to be with, all these fellas, you know. And, um, from then onwards we went to — oh, we went to Grimsby twice, er, Grimsby, then Cleethorpes, er, and then we decided then travelling was so bad in the winter, February-time. We were caught in a very bad winter there and we decided to have it a bit later in the year, in May, and stick to Lincoln and have it in the — what was the Grand Hotel in Lincoln. Because The Saracen’s Head was the place we used to mostly to congregate mostly in Lincoln of course, near the bridge there but it’s not any more. I don’t know what it is these days now. The other place we’d congregate, if you could get through the door, because it was packed with aircrew all the time. But then I stuck to farming life then for, for right up until twenty years ago, twenty-odd years ago. I retired then when I was sixty-five, twenty-five, twenty-six years ago coming up now it is, yeah.
DK: How do you feel now looking back after all these years about, you know, your period with the Air Force and Bomber Command is it something you, you know, you look at with pride and [inaudible]
AO: Yes. It was, it was a period of my life I wouldn’t have missed it for anything, that period of my life, yep. It was a good eye opener and also for me to meet an awful lot of people, you know.
DK: OK. I’ll stop there.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Taff Owen
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AOwenA150603
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:52:24 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Aneurin ‘Taff’ Owen was born neat Dolgellau, near Penmaenpool in Wales, and joined the Royal Air Force at the age of 18 in 1942. Taff was a farmer’s son and as such was put into a reserved occupation, so some of the areas of the Royal Air Force were not open to him. He became a wireless operator/air gunner after his training in 1942. He tells of his sighting of his first aircraft at the age of nine and of seeing a travelling flying circus, which fanned his love of flying. Whilst he was training, he flew in Dominie biplanes before progressing onto Proctors. He tells of flying in Ansons and going to 27 Operational Training Unit in RAF Lichfield flying in Wellington bombers before serving in a Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Lindholme on Lancaster. He then transferred to 153 Squadron based at RAF Scampton. His tells about his first trip which was an operation on the submarine pens in Kiel and he tells of his training for Operation Manna and the food drops into the fields in Holland. He also says that the image on Pathe News showing a Lancaster flying over St Paul’s on VE Day is the Lancaster he was in at the time. He tells of catching chicken pox and having to repeat his courses, his problems with a navigator who was colour blind, and the heavy losses experienced at the Operational Training Unit. After the war, in 1946, despite wanting to stay in the Air Force, he returned to farming, retiring when he was 65 years of age.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Yorkshire
Germany
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Germany--Kiel
Netherlands
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-05-08
153 Squadron
27 OTU
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bombing
demobilisation
Dominie
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Master Bomber
military living conditions
navigator
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Lichfield
RAF Lindholme
RAF Peplow
RAF Scampton
RAF West Freugh
RAF Yatesbury
recruitment
searchlight
submarine
Tiger force
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1262/17135/PSmithDA1901.2.jpg
f068e3d6817394db0223c0a31545a439
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1262/17135/ASmithDA190219.2.mp3
2eabbde8694ea974c6013caea6c115c7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Douglas Arthur
D A Smith
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Douglas Arthur Smith who flew with 76 and 158 Squadron as a wireless operator.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-02-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, DA
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: So, this I’ll just introduce myself. This is David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre interviewing, do you like, are you Doug Smith or —
DS: Yes.
DK: Doug Smith at his, Douglas Smith, at his home on the 19th of February 2019. I’ll just make sure that’s working. Ok. If I just put that a bit nearer to you. If, if I keep looking over I’m just making sure it’s still working.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So what I wanted to ask you first of all was what were you doing immediately before the war?
DS: Before the war I, I was living in a small village called Bressingham near Diss in Norfolk and I’m the son of an ex-World War One —
DK: Veteran.
DS: Veteran.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Who was also injured during then. And I was born three years after World War One. My family, they’re agricultural people.
DK: Right.
DS: My father was a farmer, and when the war broke out —
DK: I might just come a bit closer to you if that’s ok.
DS: Yeah.
DK: If I move that there. Is it ok if a sit here?
DS: Yeah. Sure.
DK: Yeah. Yeah. Ok. Sorry. You were saying.
DS: Yeah. As I said I was born the son of a farmer and well, you see the real Depression after the First World War.
DK: Do you know, do you know much about your father? What he did in the First World War?
DS: He, yes he was, he was a soldier that fought in the, on the Somme.
DK: Right.
DS: And unfortunately he got injured with shrapnel and had to be repatriated. And as I said from then on I came on the scene [laughs] and a sister. My sister. And when World War Two broke out. I just fancied I’d like to join the Royal Air Force because all youngsters at that time —
DK: Did your, did your father advise against the Army then, did he?
DS: No. He didn’t have anything. To be quite honest my father, I did all this on my own back.
DK: Oh, right.
DS: I didn’t have any discouragement or any encouragement.
DK: So what, what made you look towards the Air Force then? Was there something that drew you to it?
DS: Well, I think, I think the idea of flying.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I mean flying was in, well it was in it’s the initial stages in them days.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: And I think a lot of youngsters. So I just went down to Norwich and enlisted and, and that’s where I started my career, and that was in 1940.
DK: So —
DS: October.
DK: Right.
DS: 1940.
DK: And how old would you have been then?
DS: Nineteen.
DK: Nineteen.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Right. So, what, what’s your first sort of posting then in the Air Force? What did you do first of all?
DA: Well, first of all —
DK: I mean, presumably were you looking to become a pilot? Did you think or —
DS: Well, in the selection board once you, when I went to Norwich to get enlisted, they took all particulars and I went through various examinations, tests and, and they asked you what your background was. And they then suggested that I became a wireless operator although I would like like everybody else to have been a pilot.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: But I was enlisted as a wireless operator/air gunner.
DK: Right.
DS: And then from then on just went through the basic foot bashing stage of the —
DK: Yeah. Is that something you took to was it? Or was it something you liked? Or —
DS: Well, it was quite new to someone who lived in the country and it all came, well I was surprised. But that was intriguing actually really.
DK: Yeah. Can you remember where it was you did you square bashing?
DS: Yes. I went to Blackpool.
DK: Right.
DS: And done all the square bashing there, and after that there was a period when I had to wait for the training to do with the flying side because the square bashing was just a preliminary.
DK: So, presumably this would have been your first time away from home then was it?
DS: That was my first time away from home.
DK: Yeah.
DS: We were billeted in private hotels and in hotel accommodation sort of thing. Then once we’d finished that we had, we all, everybody had to be put somewhere and, while they were waiting for the air training side of the, of the Air Force and I went to, I was stationed at Norwich for a while. Attached to the signals to get some idea because they were [pause] what I had to face eventually because we got with, operating Morse Code and all that sort of thing. And then from then on I was, I went to an Air Gunnery School at Evanton in Scotland to learn all about the machine gunning. What the aircraft would be.
DK: So what was the training like then on the machine guns? Did you, were you taking them apart or —
DS: Well, you had to take them to pieces and —
DK: Yeah.
DS: Know how they operated if you got stoppages and just mainly getting to know. I think that they were, the guns were Brownings I think and just get general knowledge of what you actually might need to handle.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Although my main job really finished up as a wireless operator.
DK: Right.
DS: I never had anything further to do with the gunnery side apart from taking the course. The course in gunnery which everybody had to do. The first aircraft I think I flew was a, was a Botha.
DK: Oh right.
DS: Which was —
DK: Yeah.
DA: A lot of people haven’t even heard of today.
DK: I’ve heard of them. What was that like then? Your first flight in one of these old things.
DS: Well, as I say that was one of the first flights I did. I couldn’t compare that one with any other.
DK: No.
DS: Back then when I first got there. Looking back they were very daunting and they were [laughs] they were not over safe either.
DK: No.
DS: And then once I completed the gunnery course —
DK: Did you, did you do any air to air firing?
DS: Yes.
DK: At that point?
DS: Oh yes.
DK: At the drogues.
DS: Yes. That’s right.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Firing on drogues and I’ve got it all recorded in my logbook there. And, and then after that [pause] let me think. Get this right.
DK: It would have been for the wireless operations.
DA: Yes.
DK: Yeah.
DA: I think I went back to Blackpool again because that was where I had to learn Morse Code and —
DK: Right.
DS: And, and that’s, once again we were billeted in the hotel and guest houses, and our training, the training when we were learning was in a tram shed in Blackpool, and they were all set out for all the pupils to get to know what Morse Code was about. And you had, once you completed your course you had, you had to maintain eighteen words a minute.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Yeah. Once you passed that. And then from there —
DK: Is it, was Morse Code something you found you could pick up easily was it or —
DS: Well, for some. It wasn’t easy. But was interesting and same old double Dutch to start with but I got there in the end.
DK: Right.
DS: Which most of us did. Some of them failed.
DK: And how many words a minute did you have to do?
DS: Eighteen.
DK: Eighteen.
DS: Eighteen words a minute. Yeah.
DK: Right.
DS: And, and then after that I went to Abingdon where I met the, met up with the, where we met up with the crew.
DK: Right.
DS: You know. I went there as an individual. You met up and you formed. You formed a crew which my crew was Sergeant Hickman, and —
DK: And this would have been the Operational Training Unit.
DS: That’s an operational, yes.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: That’s an OTU. An Operational Training Unit and that was, that was on Wellingtons.
DK: So, how did you think that worked with you meeting up with your crew. Just putting everybody together in a hangar sort of thing? Did that, that work out well?
DS: Yes. Well, of course we were, they were all, we were all strangers. We were all experiencing the same, the same problem, you know. Meeting someone for the first time.
DK: Yeah.
DS: But, but you became like a little family in the end because you social, you socialised.
DK: Socialised. Yeah.
DS: Socialised [laughs] rather together and you more or less lived together and as I said you became a family and we were, once we went through all the process of the OTU which meant —
DK: If I just go back to the OTU. What did you think of the Wellingtons then, as an aircraft? Were they —
DS: Well, they were much better than the Botha [laughs] At least that was the [pause] I think the Botha was a, I’m not quite sure if that was a single engine or not, but yeah that was a little step up going to the Wellington but —
DK: And your, your pilots name was?
DS: Sergeant Hickman.
DK: Hickman. Right. Ok. And was he, was he a good pilot?
DS: Yes.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I think so. He was, as I said they all had to pass to a certain standard so I mean, yeah. Yes. They were. He was, he was quite good and unfortunately later on he bought it as we called, used to say in the Air Force.
DK: So moving on from the OTU then what was, what was your next, next step then?
DS: The next step from the OTU was I went to [pause] to —
DK: Was it 76 Squadron?
DS: 76 Squadron.
DK: Yeah. Yeah. Is it alright if I look at your logbook?
DS: Yeah.
DK: Is that ok?
[pause]
DS: Yeah.
DK: So I just —
DS: To Linton on Ouse. I went to Linton on Ouse.
DK: Right.
DS: The station commander, or at least the squadron commander of 76 Squadron which I joined was Wing Commander Leonard Cheshire who became, eventually became Group Captain Cheshire.
DK: Just for the recording I’m just having a look at your logbook here. It says you were at Number 8 Air Gunnery School.
DS: Yes.
DK: Yeah. And then, then it was number 10 Operational Training Unit.
DS: That’s right. Which was at Abingdon.
DK: That was Abingdon.
DS: That’s correct.
DK: So that’s mostly all local flying and you’re the wireless operator there.
DS: That’s right. Yeah.
DK: Camera gun exercises etcetera.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And then just, then it’s, I’ve then got 1658 Conversion Unit.
DS: Yes. That was after we left, oh yes. I got ahead of myself there. We went to Riccall.
DK: Right. Ok.
DS: Yeah, to convert from the Wellington to the Halifax.
DK: I’m just looking on your logbook here. You’ve got the Halifaxes here. The aircraft serial number. It says BB304 and R9434, W1003, W1168 they were quite early Halifaxes, were they?
DS: Well, they, well they must have been. Yes, because that was, they were they were flying with the Merlin engines.
DK: Right.
DS: In those days.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Because later on we went on to radials. Hercules.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And —
DK: So, what did you think of the early Halifaxes at the Conversion Unit?
DS: Well, we, we liked them. Well, we thought we were going up from two engines to four engines but yes they were. Yes. We got on very well with them. Yeah.
DK: So, it would have been at the Conversion Unit then that you would have been joined by your flight engineer. Did you get an extra crew member then?
DS: Yeah. I thought we had the flight engineer from the start but —
DK: Oh, ok.
DS: I mean we had the gunners. The navigator and the bomb aimer, and as I said —
DK: Can you, can you still remember their names?
DS: Yeah, I might have to refer to it.
DK: Yeah. Ok. We can, we can go back to that later.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Ok.
DS: Well, our rear gunner was Scott. And our navigator was Keene. Bomb aimer was either Pringle or Prangle or —
DK: Yeah.
DS: And, yeah —
DK: So then in looking at your logbook again in April 1943 then you’ve gone to 76 Squadron at Linton on Ouse.
DS: That’s right.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And that’s flying Halifaxes again.
DS: Yes.
DK: And can you remember were they the early Halifaxes again or the later ones?
DS: Yes. They were the early ones.
DK: The Merlin ones.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So, I notice all your flying there is with Sergeant Hickman.
DS: Yes.
DK: As your pilot.
DS: Yes.
DK: And so you say the squadron commander then was Leonard Cheshire.
DS: Yes.
DK: Did, did he make much of an impression on you?
DS: Well, we as young recruits saw, we didn’t see a lot of the commander.
DK: Right.
DS: We just, we just, we had a, I think a section commander. A Flight Lieutenant Ince. But no, we didn’t get [pause] I never really got in contact much with Cheshire but —
DK: Do you remember seeing him there though?
DS: Oh yeah.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I saw him. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: So what was his squadron like? Was it a well-run squadron would you say?
DS: Yeah. Yeah. He [pause] he, in the early days because he flew the Wellington on operations and apparently he brought one back with a great big hole in the side. They said you could get an Austin 7. Yeah. No. He was [pause] no, he wasn’t a character but he had, he was, and actually in later years he turned religious.
DK: Yes.
DS: That’s another story.
DK: Yeah. So, so his, so your crew then there was no officers on the crew.
DS: No.
DK: No.
DS: No.
DK: Right.
DS: No. No. Late in, the navigator was made up.
DK: Right.
DS: As a pilot officer later on but all the others were just, you know sergeants. That was the minimum you were was a sergeant if you were flying. And —
DK: So, I’ve got, I’ve got on here then it looks like you joined 76 Squadron quite early in April ’43 and then would this have been your first operation then? To Pilsen.
DS: Yes. That’s right.
DK: So what, what was it like to go on an operation then for the first time? What sort of happened?
DS: It was quite an experience really and it’s something I don’t think anyone other than the ones who were on these raids could really describe what it was really like. I mean, it was just something like out of this world, you know. There was the German searchlights trying to pick you up. I mean, they had a master beam which used to pick you up, and then a series of smaller searchlights would beam, would beam on you and then, then you were, well yes that was nearly fatal because the Germans used to fire up the —
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: Up the beams and I mean we, fortunately we managed to manoeuvre and get, not get picked up by these master beams but we could see others that were being illuminated with the searchlights and that. Not awful but you could see people, the planes just exploding and, yeah. Yeah, that. But the thing that really amazed you was the, where the bombs and the flares and things were on the towns that we bombed. You could, it was just like a furnace burning. You know, like that. As I said it’s a sight, you can’t describe it to —
DK: No.
DS: To anyone.
DK: Right.
DS: That was, and then of course you had fighters chasing you around. Chasing you. Which were, you had to keep your eye out for and —
DK: Were, you were you ever attacked by a night fighter?
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
DA: Yes. But as you will see later on we shot down, well, we ourselves shot down two.
DK: Oh, right.
DS: Two Jerry fighters.
DK: So, your first operation then was the 16th of April 1943.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And then 20th of April ‘43 you’ve gone to Stettin.
DS: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were all —
DK: I’ll just read this out for the —
DS: Yes. Yes. That’s right. Yes. That’s correct.
DK: So, and then 27th of April, Duisburg. Duisburg again on the 12th of May. And on the 13th May, Bochum. I’ll turn that around for you. So, 30th of May, Mönchengladbach.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And then Mannheim. 15th of September.
DS: They were with different pilots they were.
DK: Right. Yeah. That’s Troak. I’ll spell that out T R O A K.
DS: That’s right.
DK: So, then Mannheim on the 5th of September. Munich on the 6th of September. So, you’ve gone on two operations. One following the other. Mannheim and then Munich. Then you’ve got another pilot here. Smith.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So, that’s the 3rd of October. Kassel. And then the 4th of October. Frankfurt.
DS: That’s right.
DK: So that’s operation number nine then. Yeah. And the tenth op 8th of October to Hanover. And then 22nd Of October, Kassel.
DS: That’s right.
DK: Interesting here. So, the 26th of November 1943 you were in Halifax K. Your pilot is Lemon.
DS: That’s right.
DK: And its ops to Stuttgart and it says, “Emergency landing. Three engines with full bomb load.” Can you —
DS: Yeah.
DK: Recall that?
DS: Yes. I can. We, we had just got airborne and one of the engines packed up. So we called base for instructions and we went, we were told to go out to sea and drop our, our, the bombs because you, it was not known for an aircraft once you’d took off with a full bomb load to have been able to come back and land.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: So, but the pilot was a regular pilot who was in the Air Force before the war.
DK: Oh right. So that was Flight Lieutenant Lemon.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And he, he called back to base, said, ‘Well, I can’t get out. I can’t go to sea. I’m coming back in.’ And we did come back in, but I think what probably he did put on, when he went in to land put a few more revs on.
DK: Yeah.
DS: To compensate. And the next thing we knew they were following up the runway behind us with all the local fire engines.
DK: So you landed with a full bomb load then.
DS: Yes. We had a full bomb load.
DK: So that was quite unusual then.
DS: Yes.
DK: [unclear]
DS: I’ve never known, well it might have happened but as far as I know that had never been known before.
DK: Yeah.
DS: But —
DK: It must have been quite, quite frightening at the time.
DS: Well, it all happened so quick you see because we’d hardly got off the end of the runway and the engine blew up.
DK: I see here the total flying time was actually five minutes isn’t it?
DS: That’s right.
DK: So you’d just done a circuit and then straight back down again.
DS: Yeah. So that was a bit hairy, I can —
DK: Yeah. So then, carrying on from there you’ve got 3rd of December. Leipzig.
DS: That’s right.
DK: And then 7th of January 1944 now. So it just says, “Bombing. Night.” It doesn’t actually say where.
DS: That’s yeah that’s an exercise.
DK: Oh, is that an exercise? Then 20th of January 1944 you’ve got your twelfth operation and it’s to Berlin.
DS: That’s right.
DK: Do you remember travelling to Berlin on that flight?
DS: It was just like another place to us, you know because we were quite keen to go there because that was the, the capital of, you know of Germany when we got there.
DK: And that was with Flying Officer Falgate.
DS: Falgate. Yeah.
DK: Falgate. Yeah. So that operation then was seven hours twenty.
DS: That’s right.
DK: Right. So [pause] and then 21st of, 21st of January 1944, Magdeburg.
DS: That’s right.
DK: And then 28th of January, Berlin again.
DS: Yes.
DK: [unclear] And then you’ve got 27th of May here [unclear] That’s in Belgium isn’t it?
DS: Yeah.
DK: And you’ve landed at Bruntingthorpe.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Was there a problem with your aircraft then?
DS: Yeah. Yeah. I think we’d lost pressure somewhere in that. We had to, to, instead of getting back to base we had to make an emergency at Bruntingthorpe.
DK: Carry on then. I’d like to say you’re now in the Halifax 3s. So they’re the ones with the —
DS: With the Hercules.
DK: Hercules engines. So were they a better aircraft to the earlier Halifaxes do you think?
DS: Yeah. Oh yeah. Much better. Not only that they were safer for us because being air cooled radial there was no manifolds on the engines.
DK: Right.
DS: They’re, the Merlin’s had twin exhausts on each engine and at night time they got so hot that they illuminated.
DK: Oh right.
DS: And of course the Germans could —
DK: See them.
DS: I mean, so we were much safer once we got to the radials because the only way we were picked up by the Germans was either by the searchlights or night fighters which was bad enough.
DK: And I notice here your pilot then was Flight Lieutenant Forsyth DFC.
DS: Ah huh.
DK: So that was the 1st of June, Halifax 3 and it’s letter R and it’s off to Cherbourg. And then I see you’ve done operations actually on D-Day. 6th of June. D -Day support operations on both. Well, two operations on 6th of June, in fact, wasn’t there?
DA: Yeah.
DK: Forsyth DFC. St Lô. And you’ve put there invasion front. And then 4th of July there’s your first daylight operation.
DS: That’s correct.
DK: So to St Martin. And that’s with Flight Lieutenant Forsyth again. What was it like flying in daylight on the D-Day operations?
DS: We didn’t, we didn’t get any, any opposition from the Jerries at all. That’s, well as I said that was just a hop over the Channel and back, you know.
DK: Yeah.
DS: That was when you were going in to the, in to the heart of Germany when you were going in to the Ruhr Valley and there. I mean Jerry put up about thirty thousand extra ack ack guns when the Battle of the Ruhr was on. That was like hell on earth that was. But —
DK: So, though it was in daylight because it was over France the opposition wasn’t quite as deadly.
DS: No. No.
DK: So 18th of July then ops to, I’ll spell this out it’s A C Q U E T. That’s in France I think, isn’t it?
DA: Yeah.
DK: That’s twenty one.
DA: This guy turned out, after he came out of the, out of the war he was he was my solicitor right up until he died.
DK: Ah.
DA: Yeah.
DK: So, that was flight lieutenant —
DS: Crotch.
DK: Crotch.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Flight Lieutenant Crotch.
DA: Yeah.
DK: So he was your pilot on the —
DA: On that —
DK: 18th of July. And then he became your solicitor post-war then.
DS: Yeah. Yeah. Right up until recently. Until he died.
DK: Oh. So 23rd of July. France again. Then 24th of July Stuttgart. And so this is the 24th of July 1944. The pilot’s Flying Officer Macadam.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Had gone to Stuttgart and I see here it says two enemy fighters destroyed.
DS: Yeah. That was —
DK: What happened there then?
DS: Well, what happened was that we had been previously chased by a couple of Jerry fighters but we managed to, to avoid them because what was the known thing was once a Jerry fighter turned in to attack you, you turned into him.
DK: Right.
DS: So, so anyhow we evaded the first lot and the second ones I don’t think they saw us because we were, I think where they were, they had blind spot. What we used to call a blind spot if you were flying over an aircraft as a pilot and then there’s a plane underneath. I think we must, that must have been a blind spot for it.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Oh well, that’s only what we assumed. And then, we shot down the first one. We didn’t realise that he had a mate with him. You know, flying alongside. But then he came in to, to bring us down but fortunately we managed to get him as well. And that was recorded. That wasn’t just what we said.
DK: Right.
DS: Because what happens once you come back to do a briefing you have to state what you did or saw.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And lots of other aircraft saw these two fighters being shot down so we got it recorded and that’s how that happens to be.
DK: Yeah. So someone else had witnessed it then.
DS: Yeah. Exactly.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: Yeah. Because everything that happens up there has to be logged if you see anything unusual.
DK: And who got them then? Was it both the gunners working together?
DS: Mainly the mid-upper.
DK: Right.
DS: Well, I think they both worked together but being as he was flying over the top he could see further.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Rather than somebody at the tail end.
DK: And can you remember the names of the gunners?
DS: No. I don’t. No.
DK: No. I thought we could check on that.
DS: No. No.
DK: So, do you know what type of aircraft they were that you shot down?
DS: No.
DK: Right.
DS: No.
DK: Right.
DS: I would think, I mean probably, I don’t know for sure but I think probably Junkers 88, I think.
DK: So, they were twin engined aircraft.
DS: Yeah.
DK: You shot down. Oh, right.
DS: As I say we didn’t have time to look —
DK: No.
DS: At them at the end of the day.
DK: So you’re, you’re sat at your radio at the time while all this is going on. What, what’s that like as you’re being, as you’re being attacked by a night fighter?
DS: You still had to, you were always listening out and you don’t make any communications with base.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Because of detection, you know. Jerry. So, but we just, we just log what we hear. But naturally we didn’t log the fighters.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Because that was, that was on the debriefing that we had to record those things but —
DK: I’ve just noticed here as well that in July 1944 you’d moved squadrons. You’re now with 158 Squadron at Lissett.
DS: Yes.
DK: So this incident then happened while you were with 158 Squadron.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And it’s, it was Halifax R and it was Flying Officer McAdam.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
DS: See what happened previously was when I was flying with Hickman earlier I got tonsilitis.
DK: Right.
DS: And they wouldn’t let me fly so I had to go in the sick bay. They flew off to Hanover and they never come back and that’s where, that’s where their —
DK: Yeah.
DS: Why their names are on your —
DK: Right.
DS: Memorial.
DK: If can just go back to that then. That happened when you were with 76 Squadron.
DS: Yes. Because that’s, yeah —
DK: Yeah.
DS: When I was with Hickman.
DK: Yeah. And can, can you remember when that was that that happened?
DS: It was —
DK: Are they on here?
DS: Yeah, I think that’s —
DK: Can I take a look?
DS: Yeah.
DK: OK. Oh, this is the [pause] yeah. So, they were in Halifax DK 6, DK266 MP-O.
DS: Yeah. That would be it, I expect. Yeah.
DK: And this was on the 28th of September 1943.
DS: Yeah. Yeah. During that period. Within a few weeks of that I lost my wife and child at the same time.
DK: Oh dear.
DS: So I had [pause] they talk about people having trauma these days but I mean I had to suffer the loss of my whole crew and then shortly after that, in only a matter of weeks I lost my wife and kid as well. A child.
DK: I’m very sorry to hear that.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yes. Oh dear.
DS: So, that was, as I say that.
DK: Yeah.
DS: But you see then once you get split up from your, from a regular crew you were, you were like what we used to call an odd bod. If somebody was short of a radio operator they picked on you. And then of course by that, doing that you never had a, you never had a full crew again. You just flew when they were short of somebody.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And then of course all the accolades for when the others got medals and DFCs and DFMs and whatever. You know, such as myself we were, not that I worried about the medal but just glad to be here but you just missed out on any gallantry medals.
DK: If you don’t mind I’ll just go back a little bit because you, you when all this happened you were with 76 Squadron at Holme on Spalding Moor.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So you did an operation on [pause] where are we?
DS: There must be a period of breaks somewhere.
DK: There is. Yes. I think it’s here isn’t it because they’re saying your crew was lost on the 28th of September 1943 and that was to Hanover. So you’ve flown on an operation to Munich with Falgate and then he was lost after that then.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Oh dear. And that was because you had the tonsilitis.
DS: Tonsilitis, yeah. Actually, I think I was in hospital for about a couple of weeks.
DK: And just to clarify this for the recording then this was that the crew was lost on The 28th of September 1943 on a trip to Hanover. Do you know what, were they shot down then or was it —
DS: Yes. They were shot, yeah.
DK: Did you ever find out anything more about what had happened to them?
DS: Not. That they were shot down. I think it says in there where they were shot down and I wouldn’t have known that without what you’ve got there.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I just knew that they’d been shot down. I didn’t even know. I was going to contact the war cemeteries and see really where they were.
DK: Yeah.
DS: But —
DK: It’s got the Rheinberg War Cemetery.
DS: That’s right.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
DK: Oh dear. So you’ve, after that terrible incident then you’ve, you have actually carried on flying haven’t you?
DS: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: Almost with different pilots.
DS: Yeah. That probably was a good thing in a way, I suppose.
DK: Can you, can you remember Falgate’s first name?
DS: Les.
DK: Les Falgate.
DS: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: Right. So going forward again, you’ve then gone to 158 Squadron.
DS: That’s right. I think that was out of Lisset. I think that was.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I think. Yeah.
DK: Yeah. 158 Squadron.
DS: It was Lissett. Yeah.
DK: And we’ve covered the, the incident when the night fighters were shot down. So then you’ve got three more operations here in August 1944. So these were daylight ones presumably.
DS: Yeah. They were.
DK: So, the 24th of August, Brest. 27th of August, Homburg. 31st of August somewhere in France. That’s not twenty eight operations and then September 1944, on the 9th 10th and 11th you went to Le Havre three times.
DS: Yeah. That’s correct.
DK: In daylight. The 15th of September to Kiel. And then 23rd of September 1944 to Dusseldorf.
DS: That’s right.
DK: So that was your —
DS: That.
DK: Thirty third operation.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Was that, was that the total you did then?
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So can you remember much about Le Havre in daylight on those three operations.
DS: No. No. No. As I say two in one day I think they wanted.
DK: Yeah. On the 9th 10th 11th of September. In the same Halifax as well. LV940.
DS: Yeah.
DK: And the same pilot, Flight Lieutenant New.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So could you just speak a little bit about what your role was as, as the wireless operator? What you were. What you did on the operations.
DS: Well, on the operations the radio operator you had, you didn’t do [pause] you were mainly there to listen out for information from base. You never had to, you were not allowed to contact base because of the detection side of it.
DK: Yeah.
DS: You may listen though and made notes of what, anything that was going on within the plane. If the navigator says something or whatever. And mainly look out for enemy fighters. I had a window where I sat.
DK: Because in the Halifax whereabouts are you? You’re kind of sat under the pilot aren’t you? Or —
DS: Here [pause] Yeah.
DK: Right.
DS: Right there.
DK: So you were in the nose there.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Sort of below, below the pilot.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Pilot up there and then bomb aimer. Air gunner and then bomb aimer down there.
DS: Yeah.
[pause]
DK: So you did thirty three operations in total then and then it says here you were then screened.
DS: Yeah. Well, that means that then I went on to instructing.
DK: And this was at 19 OTU at Kinloss.
DS: That’s right.
DK: So you were back on the Wellingtons again.
DS: Yeah [laughs]
DK: What was that like? Going back to the Wellingtons.
DS: Not very good [laughs]
DK: So you were there for quite some time then weren’t you? Right through to 1945 on Wellingtons again [pause] So, right through to February 1945 you were training then. Oh, and carried on until March. There’s quite a few flights in Wellingtons by the looks of it.
DS: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: Training flights. So, you finished then March 1945.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Was that when you finished in the Air Force then or —
DS: No, I finished flying in 1945.
DK: Right.
DS: And I became redundant and we had to, we had to muster to some other part of the Air Force, and I was asked what my background was and that. I said I was, spent my few months or early years as a, working in a garage as a car maintenance and so I said I wouldn’t mind going back into transport or something like that. And then they, there was a position came up at a place called Shepherds Grove which is near Bury St Edmunds as a transport officer. So I took over the airfield as a transport officer.
DK: Yeah.
DA: And I was there. Well, the base closed. I closed the base down while I was there because that was no longer needed because the war had finished and that’s where I finished and got demobbed.
DK: So, how do you look back on your time in the Air Force now? All these years later?
DS: It was a great experience. It really was. At the time you just took things for granted and we never saw any fear. I mean if our names weren’t up to fly on a certain night we were disappointed. I mean there was no such thing as saying, ‘I’m glad I’m not going.’ We were so keen. We didn’t, we didn’t want to miss anything, and I’ve never, I’ve never ever heard of anyone saying that they were, they may have inwardly, never scared.
DK: Yeah.
DS: No. There was one of our biggest moans ever since was the accolades going along pre-war is all about Halifax, no all about Lancasters.
DK: Lancasters. Yes. Yes.
DS: The poor Halifax never gets mentioned.
DK: Yeah.
DS: If there’s a fly past.
DK: It’s always a Lancaster. It’s like the Spitfire, isn’t it?
DS: Exactly.
DK: The Hurricane gets ignored.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. So you liked the Halifaxes then as an aircraft.
DS: Yeah. Well, as I say we didn’t have a lot of choice really but —
DK: Did you ever fly in a Lancaster then?
DS: No. No.
DK: No. So, you can’t really compare the two.
DS: No. No.
DK: Yeah.
DS: The only advantage that they said the Lancaster could fly about another couple of thousand feet higher than us which the higher you could get the further away you were from the enemy —
DK: Yeah.
DS: Ack ack guns, because the point was they could get you wherever you went. But of course the fighters used to chase us back. Even follow us right back to the base. There had been certain, it had been known where our own aircraft were shot down over, over on the, on coming in to land on our own bases.
DK: Yeah. And —
DS: It’s unbelievable really when you look back.
DK: Yeah. How did you feel when you got back from an operation then?
DS: We always used to look forward to coming back because of the spread. It was the only time you got a decent meal [laughs] We used to have egg and bacon and as much as you wanted.
DK: And —
DS: You had to do the debriefing once you’d landed and you went back to be debriefed and that’s like if anyone saw anything unusual. That’s when the question of the fighters came in you see.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And anything that happens you had to make a note of. I mean I remember coming back [pause] that was when the first Doodlebugs went to London.
DK: Oh right.
DS: We saw this object illuminated. We knew it wasn’t an aircraft because we didn’t know what it was.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And all things like that we had to make a note of and then, then the radio operator on various operations we had to drop what they called Windows.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Which is a —
DK: It reflects the radar.
DS: A series of like tin foil to, to obliterate the German detection.
DK: Was that one of your roles?
DS: Yes.
DK: As wireless operator.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. So what did you do? Did you feed it down a tube?
DS: There was a chute.
DK: Right. Yeah.
DS: And we were told every, whatever —
DK: Yeah.
DS: Seconds or minutes, I can’t remember exactly you had to drop and that because everybody did the same thing because I mean lots of the raids we went on I mean they were four and five hundred bomber raids. I mean and usually however many there were, there was in the raid, we were, we bombed out like, half of you would be bombing at a certain time.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And then three minutes later the second wave.
DK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DS: Of course we relied on the Pathfinders to drop the flares because it’s the Pathfinders that gave us the exact target.
DK: Yeah.
DS: I mean today things are different now I mean with radar and —
DK: It’s all computerised.
DS: Computerised, you could pick out a needle.
DK: Not quite the same is it?
DS: No. But yeah.
DK: So, when you were with your crew then did you socialise together?
DS: Yes.
DK: What did you used to do on your time off then?
DS: Well, mainly we used to go to the local bar. Not on the base.
DK: No.
DS: We used to, we were stationed in Yorkshire and —
DK: Can you remember the names of the pubs?
DS: Yeah. We used to go to Betty’s Bar.
DK: Betty’s Bar.
DS: In York.
DK: Yeah. Yeah. I know it.
DS: And as I know the place, I think today they’ve got some inscriptions even in Betty’s Bar today.
DK: Is your name there?
DS: I don’t think my name is there [laughs]
DK: Probably not [laughs] You’ll have to go there and put it in.
DS: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes we used to go and have a few beers. And then anyone who got newly commissioned they used to take his hat.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And pour a pint of beer in it to christen it or something like that. Yes.
DK: So, it must have been a great loss then when your crew went missing.
DS: Oh yeah. Yes. I mean we used to spend so much time together.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
DS: And —
DK: So after that you were just crewed up with wherever you were necessary. You didn’t join another —
DS: No.
DK: Another crew as such.
DS: I flew with Falgate for a while and actually I’ve come, been in contact with some distant relatives of Falgate. It’s, you know since the war and one of the young girl of this family got a lot of information from the 76 Squadron Association and —
DK: So, the crew. I’ve, I’ve just slightly misunderstood something. The crew that went missing was Hickman’s.
DS: Hickman.
DK: Hickman. And what was his first name? Hickman’s first name. Would it be in here? I’ve slightly got confused with the names of the pilots.
DS: Yes.
DK: Sorry about that.
DS: Yes, well that was I flew with several pilots.
DK: Yeah. So, it was Hickman who went missing on the 28th of September 1943 in Halifax DK266 MP-O.
DS: Is his, is his name up there?
DK: That’s George Scott. Was he one of the other crews?
DS: He was a rear gunner.
DK: Rear gunner. Ok. So it was, sorry I slightly misunderstood that. It was Hickman that went missing.
DS: Yes.
DK: To Hanover you say.
DS: That’s right.
DK: On the 28th of September 1943.
DS: That’s correct.
DK: So, it was after that you were flying with Falgate. Les Falgate.
DS: Yes.
DK: Etcetera. Yeah. Slightly confused there. So, have you got the names of your crew somewhere or were they, did you say they were written down somewhere? That’s only got the one crew. G Scott.
DS: They should all be there shouldn’t they?
DK: I can, I can check after. That’s ok.
DS: I thought they were all on there.
DK: Yeah. Just the one there.
[pause]
DA: Yeah.
[pause – pages turning]
DK: Because your last operation with Hickman was, or the last time you flew with him was 16th of May 1943. So it must have been soon after that you got the —
DS: Yeah.
DK: Tonsilitis. Yeah. And then as I say he went missing in the September.
DS: Yeah. That must be it. Yeah.
DK: Ok. Well, thanks for that. I’m just going to pause this for a moment and have a look at your photos there.
[recording paused]
DK: Just put this on again. So you’ve got a photo of your Halifax in the background there and your crew. Can you name the crew there?
DS: That was, that was Falgate.
DK: Falgate. He’s in the middle. Yeah.
DS: I can’t. I don’t know. I can’t remember them. The crew.
DK: Right. Are you there?
DS: Yeah. There.
DK: Ah you’re on the end. Ok. So you’re on the right and Falgate is in the centre.
DS: That’s correct.
DK: At the back. Yeah.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So, you’ve got another photo here. That’s, that’s your ground crew as well presumably.
DS: Yeah.
DK: So, that’s Falgate there again, is it? He’s in the middle isn’t he?
DS: Yeah. Yes. That’s right.
DK: Yeah.
DS: And I think that’s me there.
DK: And that’s you there.
DS: Yeah.
DK: Third from, third from the right. So, this is one of the earlier Halifaxes with the Merlin engines.
DS: Yeah. I think it is.
DK: Yeah.
DS: Yeah. Oh, yes. It is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Douglas Arthur Smith
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-02-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ASmithDA190219, PSmithDA1901
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:55:43 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Douglas Smith grew up in Bressingham, Norfolk. He joined the Royal Air Force in October 1940, at the age of nineteen, and trained as a wireless operator. He joined a crew on Wellingtons at No 10 Operational Training Unit, RAF Abingdon, before converting to Halifaxes at 1658 Conversion Unit, RAF Riccall. In April 1943, the crew joined 76 Squadron, based at RAF Linton on Ouse. He describes their first operation to Germany, the danger of searchlights, and visiting Betty’s Bar in York during their downtime. He recounts a trauma that occurred on the 28th of September 1943, when his crew, piloted by Sergeant Hickman, was shot down on an operation to Hannover, while Smith was grounded due to tonsillitis. He continued operations by filling in for crews lacking a wireless operator, including two trips in support of D-Day, and one emergency landing back at base with a full bomb load. In July 1944, Smith moved to 158 Squadron, RAF Lisset, and completed operations to Le Havre, Dusseldorf, and Kiel. He describes his role as the wireless operator, releasing Window through a chute, and an operation to Stuttgart where the crew shot down two night fighters. After completing thirty-three operations, he instructed at 19 Operational Training Unit, RAF Kinloss, before working as a transport officer at RAF Shepherds Grove until demobilisation.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tilly Foster
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Suffolk
England--York
England--Yorkshire
Scotland--Moray
France
France--Le Havre
Germany
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940-10
1943-04-16
1943-09-28
1944-07
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
10 OTU
158 Squadron
1658 HCU
19 OTU
76 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Kinloss
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Lissett
RAF Riccall
RAF Shepherds Grove
searchlight
shot down
training
Wellington
Window
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/920/11165/ALawrenceJ170510.1.mp3
e51fceacb81837afefd0f45e304345bb
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Title
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Lawrence, Lawrie
Jack Lawrence
J Lawrence
Description
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An oral history interview with Squadron Leader Jack 'Lawrie' Lawrence (b.1919, 533877 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator air gunner with 61 and 83 Squadrons. He was shot down and became a prisoner of war.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-05-10
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Lawrence, J
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Meanwell. The interviewee is Lawrie Lawrence. The interview is taking place at Mr Lawrence’s home in Sevenoaks in Kent on the 10th of May 2017. So, Lawrie if you could perhaps tell me a little bit about where and where you were born and your early life.
LL: Well, I was born in this little town, Ossett. I just did the normal schooling. Grammar School. Worked for a year and then joined the Air Force.
DM: What did you do when you worked for the first time around?
LL: Oh well, I did a little, an electrician. And when I was seventeen and a quarter that August, joined. I could join the RAF.
DM: And why did you want to join the RAF?
LL: I wanted to fly. When I joined they said, ‘What do you want to be?’ I said, ‘A pilot.’ He said, ‘Well, do you want to make a career of the Air Force?’ I said, ‘Yes, of course. He said, ‘Well, don’t be a pilot. Go to Cranwell. Be a wireless operator or something.’ Which I did.
DM: And that was ok with you was it? You —
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: You weren’t too disappointed?
LL: No. Well, I was a bit disappointed but he said there was no career. A pilot was four years on, six years off. That was it. So I had no choice actually.
DM: So how long was the training at Cranwell? Can you remember?
LL: A year.
DM: And then what happened?
LL: Then I was posted to Hemswell. They had old biplanes. Just getting rid of them, and we got Ansons which were just coming into service. It was just like flying in a flying club. Weekends we’d give displays everywhere. It was very nice indeed.
DM: How many crew in an Anson?
LL: Well, we flew with three but you could fly with two. But that was it. It was like being in a flying club. I used to go up, take one out on weekends. Go out and see friends. It was, it was very nice. But then we got Blenheims and that was the start of the trouble. We filled the graveyard at Hemswell Cemetery. Crashing. Crashing. Crashing. I’ve got photographs somewhere. This is a book. My daughter made me write it.
DM: Is that your memoir basically.
LL: Yes. What I could remember. They were not bad to fly in but they were very dangerous because they were the first Blenheims produced. That was about it.
DM: So this was a Mark 1 Blenheim obviously.
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: Yes. Were you based at Hemswell the whole time with, with —
LL: I was at Hemswell. Yes. We got the Blenheims. We didn’t have them very long and we got the Hampdens of course. And I was suddenly posted from Hemswell to Waddington. I went to the, formed the what we called the little high speed flight at Waddington. We went and collected a new Blenheim and we were briefed to fly to Africa. And we were detailed for September the 4th.
DM: What year was this?
LL: ’39.
DM: Right.
LL: But of course the war broke out on September the 3rd so we suddenly flew back to Hemswell and we were operational. And we took off and made our first flight in February.
DM: Can you remember how you felt when war was declared? You know. What? Was it an exciting time? A frightening time?
LL: Just a normal time quite truthfully. Until February because we didn’t do, we didn’t go into, we never made a bombing flight until February.
DM: So, what were you doing between September and February?
LL: Just training.
DM: And that was still at Hemswell.
LL: Yes. Yes.
DM: Ok. So, if we go forward to February 1940 then.
LL: Right.
DM: What was your first sortie? You first mission.
LL: Oh. I can’t, can’t remember.
DM: It was a bombing mission.
LL: Oh yes. It was a bombing mission. And I’d been with this crew for three years. We had no trouble bombing aerodromes and things like that. We didn’t see, didn’t see much action. But getting, getting there at night was a bit of a trouble [laughs] Frightening the place.
DM: So how many of you in the crew?
LL: Four. And we never saw anybody from take-off to landing. We were all separated. Yeah.
DM: And how many missions did you fly on that first?
LL: Pardon?
DM: How many missions did you fly on your first?
LL: I flew thirty seven. I should have stopped at thirty but something happened. I went on to thirty seven. By which time we were, the crew had been together all that time and we were doing quite well finding targets, dropping our bombs. One morning we thought we’d got to Blackpool but it was the tower in Paris.
Other: Arc de Triomphe. .
LL: Pardon?
Other: Arc de Triomphe.
LL: Yeah. Arc de Triomphe.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. We were flying around it before — we thought we were in Blackpool. Things like that happened.
DM: Right. Yeah. That was, that would have been a bit worrying wouldn’t it? So when you came to the end of those thirty seven.
LL: My tour. Yes.
DM: Yeah. That tour. Yes. You obviously had some leave.
LL: I went to Upper Heyford as an instructor.
DM: Right. Ok. And instructing on wireless or gunning or — ?
LL: On everything to do with flying. Yeah.
DM: What did you think of that?
LL: A bit fed up actually. A bit dangerous too because sometimes you met a pilot who had never flown one before. And so after three months I volunteered to go back on flying and I was sent to Scampton. 83 Squadron. And I went with my pilot and we had to form C Flight. We ‘d got brand new crews coming in. We had to train them. It was a pretty dangerous sort of job.
DM: So that was just as dangerous as the job before.
LL: It was [laughs] Yes.
DM: But you had the same pilot as you had the first time around.
LL: I had the same pilot. We, we started, we formed the flight. C Flight. 83. And on our sixth flight we were attacked by a Messerschmitt. Messerschmitt. We never saw him. He opened fire and the port wing was completely on fire. The engine was hanging down and I was on the floor of the cockpit. A bullet had taken off my left part of my ear.
DM: But it didn’t take your ear off obviously.
LL: It didn’t. No. But it deafened it. Yeah.
DM: Was that the first time in all your missions you’d been attacked by another aircraft?
LL: No. We were attacked by a Dutch fighter before Holland came into the war.
DM: That was more of a warning was it?
LL: Fired back at him and he just waved to us and went off. Yeah. And we had [pause] we landed all over the place. We’d done, we’d done six.
DM: So this was your forty third trip.
LL: I’m trying to remember. Yes. Before I left [pause] before I left Hemswell I had a bad attack of pleurisy.
DM: Oh right.
LL: They took me off a flight and as I went to [pause] my crew flew. And then they gave me another crew but when I, when I was sick for a fortnight my crew was shot down. And the chap who took my place lost his left arm on his first trip.
DM: Did your crew survive?
LL: The pilot. The pilot was, yeah but on my second tour when we were shot down the pilot was killed.
DM: What about your old crew when the chap who replaced you lost his arm? So he obviously survived.
LL: They were prisoners of war.
DM: They were all prisoners of war.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Right.
LL: Yeah.
LL: So, ok so if we come forward now again to when you were shot down.
DM: Yeah.
LL: You were attacked by a Messerschmitt.
DM: Yes.
LL: The plane was badly damaged.
DM: [unclear]
LL: You were on the floor with your ear piece missing.
DM: Yeah.
LL: What happened next?
DM: Well, I shouted. There was nobody answering me so I just assumed everybody had baled out except, you know. So I baled out. I got out at about thirteen thousand feet so I was alright.
Other: And the rest of them?
LL: Pardon? Well, I didn’t, I didn’t, I never saw them again.
DM: Right. So, at that moment you didn’t know whether they’d survived or whether they hadn’t. Obviously later on you found out.
LL: Not at that moment. I didn’t know. I knew they’d gone.
DM: Yes.
LL: But I didn’t know what had, what had happened to them.
DM: Right. Ok.
LL: I landed in a field in Holland and I was in a hell of a mess. My right ankle was [pause] wasn’t broken but it was —
DM: That was from the parachute landing was it?
LL: Yes. Yeah. Parachute landing. So I went to the nearest house, knocked at the door and a chap came and [noise] so I told him who I was and he invited me in. And I don’t know what happened but I was busy stuffing all my gear into their fire and the Germans arrived. I don’t know where. They’d come from the guardroom, they said which was about fifty yards away.
DM: Oh right. So, you were in a, were you in, actually in a camp?
LL: Yes. But I was on the borders of it. Yeah.
DM: And what sort of a camp was it?
LL: I don’t know.
DM: A labour camp I suppose, was it?
LL: I have no idea.
DM: Right. So they arrived and arrested you obviously.
LL: They arrested me. Yes. They were charming.
DM: Really.
LL: Absolutely charming. Yes. And they took me to their guardroom and I met a young man there who had been to college in England.
DM: A German.
LL: A German. He gave me a tin of Woodbines. I’ll never forget that. I was talking to him. Suddenly the door flung open. In come the Luftwaffe. They started to knock me around. They took me in a car. They took me to their headquarters and I was just in solitary.
DM: So, how, were you sort of put in solitary confinement?
LL: Yes. Yes. And then I was interrogated by, I call him a gentleman. He said he was the Red Cross representative and he seemed to know more about my squadron then I did. I kept my mouth shut and I stayed there for about a week.
DM: Before you, before you were captured had you had training back in England about what the interrogation process would be?
LL: Nothing.
DM: Nothing at all.
LL: Nothing. It was going but I’d never had one. No. No.
DM: So you didn’t know what to expect.
LL: I didn’t. Absolutely not. I didn’t. I was quite raw. Yeah. And [pause] that’s right, then they sent me to Dulag Luft by train.
DM: Where? Do you know whereabouts? Is that in Germany or what?
LL: Germany.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. It was the camp where all, all prisoners went through.
DM: Right.
LL: [unclear] When I got to Dulag Luft I thought I was going to be interviewed by an officer and they showed me into this room and the officer was this bloke who told me he was the Red Cross representative.
DM: Same man.
LL: So I wasn’t very good mannered and I was given a fortnights solitary confinement [laughs]
DM: And were you in Dulag Luft for very long?
LL: I was there about a month I think.
DM: What was life like there? Was —apart from the solitary confinement of course.
LL: Well, it was up and down. For instance when I came through, or rather when I left Holland they sent me to Amsterdam. I beg your pardon. I’d forgotten that. I went to Amsterdam. I was in a prison there and this young Rhodesian chap came and he was in Stalag 3 and we were quite friendly. A nice chap. He said he’d baled out of a Manchester. And when we got to, he travelled to Dulag Luft. When we got to Dulag Luft there was another crew of a Manchester there and they told him after he’d baled out the pilot changed his mind and just flew back. So, he was a different person altogether then. And when I was in the Amsterdam prison in solitary I met a chap called Peter Thomas. And we could talk through the wire. I’ll never forget. He said he would never escape. He’d just passed his intermediate solicitor and when he was going, when he was in the camp he was going to study and when he got back to England he could become and full time solicitor. Then he was going to get into parliament. And he said, ‘I’ve got to get a very safe seat. And when I’m in parliament the Prime Minister will [unclear] for me. And I met him again long, long after the war and it had all come true. He was walking down the street with Neville Heath and he was the deputy. He was Deputy Prime Minister and became Foreign Secretary for a while. Peter Thomas.
DM: Amazing.
LL: He was an amazing chap. Yeah. I just saw him then but he’d made his mind up. This was ’41. August ’41. Yeah. He was an interesting chap. Yeah.
DM: So, Amsterdam. You were there for a little while.
LL: About a month I think, you see, yes.
DM: And was that an Air Force camp or was it a —
LL: It was. It was an Air Force. They called it an interview camp. Everybody was interviewed by a representative supposedly of the Red Cross. Things like that. Who knew more about what was happening than he did. And we were all very raw. Who did I meet? I met one or two well-known people. Bader.
DM: Oh, he was in there.
LL: He was there. Just went through. Yeah. And then we were separated one morning and said we were going to the, to an Air Force camp and as I was a senior and I was a flight sergeant, everybody else were sergeants we were put on a train and we went to a place. Stalag 357. It was an Army camp and we got moved into a room full of Air Force who had been naughty boys at a camp in Barth. Stalag Luft 1. And we were not treated very well.
DM: But you weren’t naughty boys.
LL: Pardon?
DM: You hadn’t been naughty boys there had you?
LL: No. But they had you see.
DM: Yeah.
LL: And they was held there.
DM: And you were treated the same as they were.
LL: Yes. Yes. And I met one chap coming down and he was interested in escaping. So we talked about it and talked about it. Anyway, we decided we’d change identities with a private soldier. And we were very lucky. A gang of New Zealanders had just arrived from Crete and they were in a hell of a mess. They just wanted to sit down. So I found a man who wanted to change identities. And a football match was arranged. A fight broke out and while that was, while the Germans were dealing with that I was changing my beautiful blue into his flea ridden khaki and I went back to the Army compound. He went back to the Air Force compound. And Jock, he also changed over. He became Army. So there were two of us.
DM: And why did you decide you wanted to be in that barracks.
LL: Because if you were a private soldier you could volunteer to go out to work. And if you get a working party of less than fifteen you only had one guard. Which made escaping pretty simple, I must admit.
DM: Right.
LL: Yeah.
DM: So obviously nobody gave you away. None of, none of the people in the camp.
LL: The only thing that happened was I’d been there about a month and they got me out one morning and sent me down to the hospital. I didn’t know what was going on and daren’t say anything. Anyway, a doctor came in and said, ‘Shave.’ ‘Oh, thank you sir.’ So I shaved my beard off. And he gave me, he shouted a load at me. He said, ‘Shave down there.’ They were going to circumcise me. This bloke had gone sick in Crete. His papers had just caught up with him. They were posted. I’d had it done many many years ago. Anyway, the Germans wouldn’t believe their papers were incorrect. Never would. So it took a bit of talking out of.
DM: But you managed to talk them out of it.
LL: I managed it. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
DM: So did you go out on a few working parties before you tried to escape?
LL: Well, I started. We started looking around for a working party and then we came into our first difficulty. We were with the Army now and the people in charge of all this stuff had been caught in Dunkirk, the early part of the war. And they were living like kings. They had their own beds and everything. They were in the same hut as all the food was stored. So if they were hungry they just went and helped themselves. And when they heard we were there to try to escape which would cause trouble they were non-cooperative. I’ll come to this a bit later on. Saved my life this, but they were uncooperative. We just found one sergeant. He’d been caught early and he fixed us up with a working party. And off we went [unclear]
[recording paused]
DM: You went on a working party. You went out on a working party.
LL: We went on this working party at the house.
DM: Can you remember what you went to do? What the work was?
LL: Oh, my God [laughs] I’m trying. I’m sorry about this.
DM: Oh, don’t worry. Don’t worry.
LL: Oh yes. Yes. This was a working party in a small village. A very small village. And they had been formed of privates caught in the beginning of the war and they were having a hell of a time. A good time. And one bloke who was there couldn’t read and couldn’t write. That was the type they were. And on a Saturday two of them were allowed to go to the local and have a beer. I was astounded at all this. And I was working on a quarry. I had to push for these things. Anyway, we decided we’d get away and one night, in those days you all slept together and your clothes were in a room with bars.
DM: So they locked your clothes away.
LL: Yeah. So we get [Maximal?] managed to hide them. Anyway, we were, we sawed through the window in the afternoon, half way through, steel things. And that night our one guard was asleep you see. We tried, I tried to get through the bars and all the wall came down [laughs] Anyway, we got away and we were walking more or less due east. We, we were heading for Yugoslavia and we, on the map we had a lake marked out where the Sunderlands were flying. Landing arms for Tito. And we wanted to get there by Czechoslovakia. Anyway, we walked as the crow flies. If we came to a river we swam it. If we came to a bridge we had to go underneath it and we never saw a soul. We used to start walking at 10 o’clock. Finish at five. Find a place to hide for the day. And then go on the next day.
DM: What did you do for food?
LL: We carried it. We carried quite a bit of food with us that we’d found in this working party. And one day we were going along and because we’d left the train and everything so we reckoned we were very near [unclear] and the border in to Czechoslovakia. And we were resting during the day as usual and a chap came up and smiled at me. So I smiled back and he went away. And we had a little natter the two of us. We said, ‘Has he gone for help? Has he gone to tell the Germans? Is he not going to bother doing anything?’ So we decided we would wait and see. And we were wrong. We were surrounded by Germans. They thought we were Russian parachutists. Anyway, the policeman they brought with them, he was, he was a nice gentleman. He said he’d lock us up but before he took us to his police station he took me around the back and shook hands with me. He was [pause] And then went to the police station and then we were interviewed by the Gestapo for the next, oh ten days. Knocked around a bit of course and then they decided we were what we said we were. Two private soldiers. And we were sent back to the camp. And on the way we were on a train, we had a the guard and we got off the train and there was a man sat there with his luggage and he said, ‘Hey, you blokes, come and carry my luggage.’ He spoke English. We said, ‘Oh, get lost.’ Anyway. when we got to the camp he was the war officer. I finished up with a month solitary [laughs] So I did solitary and then went back into the camp again.
DM: And you were still a New Zealand private.
LL: Yes. Oh yes.
DM: As far as the Germans were concerned.
LL: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then after we put our names down for a working party again and they said, ‘You’re not worth it. It’s not worth it.’ Anyway, one night this sergeant came to see us. He said, ‘I’ve got two vacancies in a party made up by fourteen privates.’ But they were all commandoes. They’d been caught on the raid to St Nazaire so, you know, they were wonderful to be with.
DM: Yes.
LL: People of the same mind. And we were posted. We were sent to Görlitz. It was an Elementary Flying School. So of course we told them who we were and everything. And the idea was we would try and steal an aircraft because they were all over the place. But we found out that they always stored their aircraft with empty tanks. Now, in the Air Force you always left your aircraft with full tanks. They stored them empty. So it was a no go. And we worked there for two or three months I think it was.
DM: What sort of work was that?
LL: Oh, anything they could find. My job was every day I had to get these two oxon, we named them Spit and Cough and then had to collect a German guard and we’d to go down to the nearest town, collect the rations, drive them back. That was my day’s work. I was very lucky. And one of them, one of the chaps there was an ex-cook from Savoy. So we really, we did live well. We’d no [unclear] We did very well there. And then we decided we would escape. So one night —
DM: Was this just the two of you again or —
LL: No. Two commandoes were coming with us. So, one night we got out, a simple sort of through, you know barbed wire and everything. And we were told that we were on top of a mountain and there were three ranges so the idea was to walk down and up and rest the next day. But when we got to the first range we could see eleven more [laughs] So we were doing that. Walking. What happened to us then? [pause] During, during the day we covered ourselves up with foliage. At night —
DM: Had you taken food with you again?
LL: Oh yes. The Savoy.
DM: He’d made meals for you?
LL: Because I was driving the rations back. So harmless I could slip a few into this thing or hide it in the cart or give the rest to the Germans.
DM: What direction were you heading this time?
LL: Czechoslovakia.
DM: Right.
LL: Yeah.
[recording paused]
LL: We came to the River Oder where we had a shave and a clean up and swam across it.
DM: What were you, what were you wearing? Because obviously you weren’t in a uniform.
LL: Oh, these khaki shorts and —
DM: So you were sort of —
LL: That’s all I had. Yeah.
DM: Right.
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: Which is I suppose one of the reasons you had to travel by night.
LL: Pardon?
DM: That’s one of the reasons you had to travel by night.
LL: Yes. Yes.
DM: Yes.
[pause]
LL: Caught near [unclear] on the border.
DM: How did that come about this time?
LL: It was the local gendarmerie caught us again. And then we were, we were taken to a place called Ollmuth and was delivered into the hands of the Gestapo.
DM: Again.
LL: Again. Yeah. And then after a few days we went back to the thing.
DM: So, I mean you said the first time when you were being interviewed by the Gestapo —
LL: Yeah.
DM: They knocked you around a bit. Was it the same the second time? Similar techniques or —
LL: Similar techniques. Just the same more or less. Yes.
DM: They didn’t think you were paratroopers this time. Or did they?
LL: Pardon?
DM: Did they think you were, you were paratroopers again or did they think you were just escaped prisoners?
LL: Just escaped privates.
DM: Yes.
LL: And I was a New Zealander with a Yorkshire accent.
DM: Which I suppose they didn’t know.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. I missed quite a lot out quite truthfully.
DM: Well, you can go back.
[pause]
LL: Far more detail in there than I can remember [pause] When we were, when we were taken, being taken back to Landsdorf on the train. We got off the train and they took two of us to a house. They took us downstairs, put us in a cellar, there was no bed. Nothing. And we were there and we had one meal a day. And then on the Sunday they called me out. Took me to the bottom of the garden and said, ‘Stand there.’ That was 8 o’clock. At 9 o’clock six Army, six Army arrived with rifles and this bloke said I’d been looked at, investigated and I was going to be shot. This was 10 o’clock. And at 12 o’clock —
Other: Morning or night?
LL: Pardon?
Other: Morning or night? Morning or night?
LL: Morning.
Other: Morning.
LL: And at 12 o’clock I was stood there. The Army was stood there. A Luftwaffe officer arrived and said, ‘Come with me.’ Took me, and they took me back to the cellar. And I never knew why I wasn’t shot until three weeks —
DM: Three weeks ago.
LL: Yeah. There was a programme on TV. It was called shot soldiers or something. It appears that Hitler had, after the Great Escape from the thing he said anybody who escaped and was shot was to be, anybody that escaped and caught was to be shot. And the Gestapo was to carry out the shooting. Anyway, the Gestapo refused to do the shooting and that’s why I wasn’t shot.
DM: Right. So the fact that the Luftwaffe officer, it wasn’t because they’d discovered you were an airman.
LL: Pardon? No. that was —
DM: That was just coincidence.
LL: Just coincidence. He had an idea I think. And it appears that according to the dates that Hitler made this order, the Gestapo refused on the Saturday and I was on this to be shot on the Sunday. And they took me back to the cellar. Threw me in the cellar and that was it. He said, he said I’d been court martialled.
DM: In your absence obviously.
LL: In my absence. Yeah. And that was it.
DM: So, eventually they took you from that house back on the train, did they?
LL: Back on the train. And when I got on the train it was a truck and it had a barbed wire roof. So they put my hands through the barbed wire and handcuffed me. I travelled like that for twelve hours. Yeah. By which time I couldn’t care less they’d knocked me about so much. Anyway, I got back to Landsdorf. Yeah.
DM: So, you’ve escaped twice.
LL: Yes.
DM: Been caught twice.
LL: Yes.
DM: And you’re still a private in the New Zealand —
LL: I was still a private. And, oh then I was, that’s right they found out I was Air Force. I never found out who, how but they said who I was. I was, by this time I was so fed up. I’d been knocked about. I’d been, and I went into solitary confinement and Bader was in the next cell. So I had a natter with him and he tried to change identities.
DM: With you?
LL: No. With a private —
DM: With a private.
LL: Gave the game away. He was a big mouth. A good flyer and everything but one to stay very clear of. And they stuck me in Stalag Luft 3. And I was in the bed by the next door, hut rather and I was a bit brassed off. You know. So I started studying economics and then out of the blue one day they said, ‘You’re going on the train tomorrow to Hedwigenkoog.’ Which was, which was north. And I went to Hedwigenkoog . And this instructor came too so he formed a school. And I studied. Anyway, when I got back, it’s in the book. One day he says, ‘The Germans allowed me to take the exams from Oxford University. But the Germans will be there. You know. Make sure you don’t talk to anybody,’ because there was about eight of us. And we took, we took the exam. I took eight papers and after I’d been home for six months I had a letter from Oxford University to say I’d got honours in six. Yeah. Anyway, we stayed at this Hedwigenkoog, and suddenly we heard the guns. The Russian guns. So the Germans got us out quickly and marched off the road. And we were in a column and there was a column in front of us of people who had been prisoners a year more than me. And there was, and so Spitfires arrived and shot up the column with the oldest in and killed about a hundred. Yeah. We were only about a hundred yards behind. Very lucky. Anyway, we decided that we’d, we’d had enough so one night we deserted the column.
DM: And when you say we, who was —
LL: Two of us.
DM: Right.
LL: Two of us. And we walked on. That’s right. We kept going and we got to the German lines and up ahead we heard a bit of a battle going on. And it was a small village and there was a tank. A battle between Canadian tanks and German tanks. So then we waited for that to finish and then we walked down and met the Canadians and told them who we were. They said, ‘Well, look what are you going to do now?’ I said, ‘We’re going to walk to the Rhine and get across.’ They said, ‘Look, there’s a brand new Mercedes in that garage. Go get it and we’ll fill it full of petrol.’ So we got this new Merc out of this garage. The owner was shaking his fist at us. And they filled it full of petrol and we got to the Rhine but we couldn’t go across. There was only traffic in one direction. So we swapped it for a camera and walked across. I got to the nearest aerodrome and got a lift back and landed at a little place called Wing. And we were jolly and the WAAF were there to kiss you and everything. And then I was asked to go to the Endsleigh Hotel in London. I said, ‘Well, what’s, what’s wrong?’ ‘Oh, we want to interview you.’ Anyhow, I got to the Endsleigh Hotel. Nothing happened for about a week. And suddenly one morning I was taken to this office of a genera and he was asking me all about when I was a private. You know, a private soldier and what I did and everything. And he started picking. Picking holes. So, I said, ‘Look, you know your blokes were the least, you know the biggest worry in Germany were your blokes. They were having such a good time there wasn’t one of them fit to go. None of them would help us. Only the people caught in Dunkirk I think.’ Anyway, one bloke turned out to be warrant officer Sheriff. And he’d just been given the OBE. So my temper really let go. And it appears I was seeing this general, they were thinking of giving me medal. I don’t know what. Conspicuous Gallantry medal. Something like, like that. But the general told me to get out. [unclear]
DM: So do you think someone had given bad reports about you? Somebody —
LL: No. The general. I shouted my head off.
DM: Right.
LL: I was a fool. I was there. I was so [pause] this bloke was building the Army up to me and I’d had no help from the Army whatsoever. In fact just the opposite apart from one sergeant. And I told the general. He wouldn’t believe me. I lost my temper because I’d just been home for a short time. I wasn’t really myself. And he said, ‘Get out.’ So I got out. Never heard any more.
DM: So where did you go? Went back to —
LL: I went home and then a posting came through. I forget where it was.
DM: Had you found out by then what had happened —
LL: Pardon?
DM: Had you found out by then what had happened to the rest of your crew?
LL: Yes. I got the address of my pilot. He was buried in —
DM: Oh right. So you —
LL: Yeah.
DM: You had a letter that told you —
LL: Only the pilot. The other two I never, never —
DM: But the other two survived did they?
LL: I presume so.
DM: You didn’t run across them before or after.
LL: No. No. I never saw them again because I was in this Army camp for and attached to it for two years. So, I don’t know where they got to. But I’ve been to my pilot’s grave.
DM: And where’s that?
LL: There you are.
DM: What does it say? [pause] Holland. Jonkerbos War Cemetery in Nijmegen.
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: So you have visited him.
LL: Yes. Yes. I have. Yeah.
DM: So where were you posted after you came home?
LL: Oh.
[pause]
LL: Oh, I was posted to a place called Bromley.
DM: Right.
LL: Which was a, one of these plotting stations. Plotting. It was a big house which had been taken over and it was a plotter and I was, I was duty officer for eight hours.
DM: Were you still a flight sergeant?
LL: I was warrant officer.
DM: A warrant officer.
LL: A warrant officer. Yeah. And I was there some time. I think from down there I went down to [pause] I can’t remember now [rustling papers] From Oxford you see. That’s the post I actually got [unclear] in.
DM: Was examined at Stalag Luft 6. 357.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Under the Authority of the University. Amazing.
LL: That came through, is it March ’64.
DM: It took a while.
LL: Yeah. I was a prisoner. Seven stone seven when I came home. That was me after three weeks, after three months at home.
DM: Fattened up.
LL: Yeah. I went to Biggin Hill, and then North Weald, and then Padgate. And then I was posted to Vienna.
DM: So what date are we?
LL: Pardon?
DM: What date are we now? What year are we in that you went to Vienna? Still 1945?
LL: Yes. And then in Vienna I collapsed. Oh, I got married and we went and I was posted to headquarters in Vienna and I collapsed one day. My lungs were bleeding so they flew me back to Wroughton Hospital. And then they decided I had six months rest. Then they decided that my right shoulder, there was a little, the [scab] was too bad. They had to cut it out. So I went up to, I went to another I can’t remember what hospital it was but it was a civilian hospital. Bader was in next door.
DM: You kept coming across him.
LL: Yeah [laughs] Cheshire, the bloke who had the homes.
DM: Oh, Cheshire.
LL: Cheshire. He was in the next. They treated it like a college but they, it was a wonderful place to be to be quite truthfully. One morning the doctor came around and he was a well-known surgeon of course that specialised in lungs. And he was telling me my budgie’s died, ‘I bet he died from bloody TB.’ And do you know he did a post mortem on my budgie and it was a heart attack. And he was, he was the biggest surgeon in England just about. Oh, and then I was posted to Hendon. At Hendon, I was commissioned now, I was posted to Cyprus. Headquarters Cyprus. And I retired from there.
DM: And what —
LL: As a squadron leader.
DM: And what year did you leave the Air Force?
LL: [unclear] yes.
Other: Oh, a bit later.
DM: So about 1964.
Other: What year did the, what year did Turkey get invaded?
LL: Pardon?
Other: ’71. So —
LL: What year were you born?
Other: ’55.
LL: It was after ’55 then.
Other: Yeah. Yeah. Because I was, you were in Wroughton when I was born.
LL: Yeah.
Other: And then you went to Germany. You are in Wildenrath in Germany. Dusseldorf.
LL: Dusseldorf. Yes.
Other: Then we were in, you were at the Ministry of Defence. We lived in —
LL: Pardon?
Other: Then you were at the Ministry of Defence at [unclear] Aerodrome.
LL: Yes. That’s where I met Peter Thompson. The navigator. That’s right.
Other: Then Hendon.
LL: Then from there I was posted to Cyprus.
Other: From Hendon to Cyprus. Yes. Yeah.
LL: Out there.
Other: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. And I did a tour as squadron leader in charge of all flights in the Near East. Nice posting.
Other: ’67 I think he might have —
LL: Pardon?
Other: Sixty — I think it’s ’64 you must have come out.
DM: So, if I take you back to —
Other: No. It’s later than that. Because I came back to, well you came out of the RAF. I went to Churston and I was —
LL: I came out in ’59.
Other: Yeah. No. No. It was later than ’59.
DM: ’69 probably. ’69.
Other: ’69.
LL: Yeah.
Other: Yeah.
DM: So, take you back to 1945.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Why did you decide to stay in the Air Force?
LL: Well, I was, I was a career. I always —
DM: Oh yes. of course you, yes because you joined as a career person when you were seventeen years old. Of course. Yes. Yes.
LL: Yeah. That’s why I became —
DM: So that was always the plan.
LL: That’s why I didn’t go on the pilot’s course, I thought.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Earlier on when we were speaking before we started recording you said that when you, before you joined the Air Force you played Rugby League.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Did you carry on playing rugby through your Air Force career?
LL: Yes. Yes. I played for Cranwell. Yeah. Cranwell Command.
DM: That was Rugby Union.
LL: Rugby Union. Oh, of course.
DM: What position did you play?
LL: Centre.
Other: Eddie Waring was your manager at one time.
LL: That was Dewsbury.
Other: Oh that’s —
LL: That was Rugby League.
DM: That was when you were young man. Yeah.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. And I wasn’t happy in Cyprus. I didn’t feel as though I was getting anywhere. And I wrote to somebody. Anyway, they put me in touch with Barclays Bank and when, when they realised I’d got six honours from Oxford they offered me an immediate job as a first cashier. They said, ‘Where do you want to go?’ And I was mad on sailing because in Cyprus you worked in the mornings and sailed in the afternoon and I was mad on sailing. So I said, ‘I want to go to the seaside.’ So they gave me a choice of three. Anyway, that morning we had to, we were testing our Comet and we flew over Torquay and Paignton and the other one was up on the north coast. Anyway, there was three. But where did we go?
Other: Brixham.
LL: Brixham. Brixham seemed the best to I put in for Brixham. Came down to Brixham and that, moved in to a house and I did ten years.
DM: Always in Brixham.
LL: Pardon?
DM: Always in Brixham.
LL: In Brixham. Yeah. Oh, yes. I was in charge of the bank and that was it. Six years. Until we’d had enough and one day my wife and I were talking and she said, ‘Why don’t we go abroad?’ Anyway, we finished up I retired. We came to Spain and we saw a house half built on the, we arrived on the Sunday, saw the house on the Monday, bought it on the Wednesday [laughs] And in a pub we met a chap who did furnishings and we gave him a cheque. Just gave him a cheque in a pub. Five hundred pounds. And that was June. And we came in September and it was finished, furnished and we were there for ten years. No. Twenty five years.
DM: Whereabouts in Spain was it?
LL: [unclear] which is five or six miles from Malaga. And nothing went wrong with us the whole time. We trusted them, they trusted us and we had a marvellous time until my wife died of heart trouble. And then talked me into coming back out. I was five years by myself but that wasn’t very nice.
DM: In Spain.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Sold it with no trouble. Came back. And that’s it.
DM: Have you kept in touch with the RAF?
LL: Only through the POW. And I got friendly with Charles Clarke, a bloke called Anderson. But there’s not many of us left now. The next reunion is in September I think at Henlow. I shan’t bother. It’s too far to mess around.
Other: We got invited to —
LL: Pardon?
Other: We went to Number 10 though, didn’t we?
LL: Oh, that was that was, yeah. Got especially picked for that. But for the old POW they go to Henlow every year now. They want to stay the weekends. Go in the mess. Too much trouble.
DM: If I can take you right back.
LL: Yes.
DM: To when you were a young.
LL: Please.
DM: Whippersnapper.
LL: Yeah.
DM: Did you have any brothers or sisters?
LL: Sister. Yeah.
DM: And did your dad fight in the First World War do you know?
LL: No.
DM: Serve in the First World War?
LL: No.
DM: He didn’t.
LL: No
DM: So he was the wrong age I guess.
LL: Yes.
DM: So he was one of the lucky ones really.
LL: Yeah. Just worked in a mill.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: What became of your sister?
Other: Your sister was older wasn’t she?
LL: She was a few years older than me. Yeah. When did she die?
Other: She died. Oh, quite a few years ago. She got dementia. Yeah. Very badly.
LL: Yeah.
Other: And was in a home for quite a long time.
LL: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: So, looking back. Do you think, this is probably an unfair question what part of the Air Force was your, was your happiest time?
LL: Oh. Bomber Command before the war. Marvellous.
DM: The flying club era, so to speak. Yeah.
LL: Wonderful. Yeah. Yes. It was wonderful. We were happy all the time but there was no bullshit or anything like that. And it was, it was grand. Yes.
Other: So you used to test the planes then, didn’t you?
LL: Pardon?
Other: You used to test the planes.
LL: Yes. Yes. On my, when I was shot down I was already on my sixth trip and when we formed C Flight, 83 our job was to meet new crews straight from training and take a navigator and a rear gunner, take them up with us for their first trip. So every time I went with my pilot the other two crew were on their first trip. Every time. It was a bit of —
DM: Yeah.
LL: You know. Because we usually, we had so many crashes. We crashed on, the navigator was lost half the time. And after [unclear] one day we crashed on Blackpool Racecourse. We crashed on Shoreham front. We had two bad landings where we wrote the aircraft off. Ran out of petrol. That was the six.
DM: So none of them were pilot error. They were all navigational error and things like that.
LL: Navigation.
DM: Yeah.
LL: Yeah. I used to try and home on places but there were so many other aircraft homing, you know and because as I say when that [unclear] and the tower came up the navigator said, ‘Oh, Blackpool.’
DM: But it was the Eiffel Tower. Yeah.
LL: Yeah. Which I’d flown around in 1938. Below the thing. The celebration of the Bastille.
Other: You flew, you flew through the arch didn’t you?
LL: Pardon?
Other: You flew through the arch.
LL: Oh, that first time. Yeah.
Other: Yeah.
LL: We went around below the tower. Yeah. The three of us.
DM: So to be clear when you were shot down which was on your second tour but the —
LL: Yes.
DM: That Was with a raw crew as well? Was it?
LL: Yeah.
DM: Just you and the pilot —
LL: That’s right.
DM: Were the only two experienced members of the crew.
LL: That’s right.
DM: You were the only experienced member of the crew who survived
LL: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Six trips. We did six trips and each time we had to take a brand new navigator, a brand new air gunner and keep telling them all the way how to climb around, keep looking around out there. It wasn’t very nice but it was a job to be done and we did it. Yeah.
DM: But you must have wondered, why you?
LL: Because we formed the flight, you see.
DM: Yeah.
LL: And with the crew Danny and I, Danny Wilcox, his, his best man when he was married was [pause] I’ve forgotten his name. The bloke who lost his arm in the air force.
Other: There will be a few of those, dad.
LL: Pardon?
Other: There will be a few of those.
LL: Yeah. He was very well known. I can’t remember his name now. But we were together. That was it. Yeah. Because we were all [unclear] captains you see, six months if that.
DM: Did you meet your wife during the war?
LL: No.
DM: After.
LL: No. When I was at Padgate. I’d just, I’d just been commissioned. I was posted to Padgate as officer in charge of closing it for recruits going through Padgate. Which was [unclear] yes. Yes. I left the Air Force ’69. March ’69. That’s the letter from them saying goodbye to me.
DM: So you were in the Air Force for thirty three years.
LL: Thirty seven.
DM: Thirty seven years.
LL: Til ’69. Yeah.
[recording paused]
LL: I always remember when I went, came from Amsterdam to Dulag Luft they were marching me through Amsterdam and a lady came and gave me a medal. The Germans knocked the hell out of her. Yeah. [unclear] concentration camp. Ollmuth Civil Prison. Görlitz. Nixdorf punishment camp. Sagan. [unclear] A bloke called Grimshaw who spoke perfect German and he got out and he fixed something up in the dams, I think. Anyway, the Gestapo got him. Shot him.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lawrie Lawrence
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Meanwell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-10
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALawrenceJ170510, PLawrenceJ1701
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:01:26 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Jack ‘Lawrie’ Lawrence planned on making a career in the RAF and joined in 1938. He enjoyed those early days when it felt like he belonged to a flying club. This was interrupted by the start of war and operational flying. He flew in Blenheims and notes they ‘filled the graveyard’ because of the accident rate with the aircraft. He volunteered for a second tour after a spell as an instructor. He was shot down and became a prisoner of war. He swapped identity with a New Zealand soldier so he would be able to volunteer for working parties which would give him the opportunity to escape. He made two attempts but was caught and delivered into the hands of the gestapo. On his last recapture he was held in a cellar before being called out into a garden where he was told he would be executed. He was unexpectedly reprieved and returned to prison. During the Long March he made his last escape and met with Canadians. He and his friends drove a Mercedes to a bridge and they then swapped the car for a camera and continued their journey on foot until they reached freedom.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Poland
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Oberursel
Netherlands--Amsterdam
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1945
83 Squadron
aircrew
Blenheim
Dulag Luft
escaping
Hampden
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Cranwell
RAF Hemswell
shot down
Stalag 8B
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
training
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1014/11303/ACopeM181127.1.mp3
43f82e2e44903fe131beaa3977ee6b33
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cullum, James
James Frederick William Cullum
J F W Cullum
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Mick Cope (b.1935). His adoptive brother James Frederick William Cullum flew with 156 and 460 Squadrons as an air gunner.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-11-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Cullum, JFW
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Meanwell, the interviewee is Mick Cope. The interview is taking place at Mr Cope’s home in Dorking in Surrey and the date today is the 27 November 2018. Okay, perhaps you could tell me a little bit of background about yourself and the person you’re going to be talking about.
MC: Right. Well I’m the adopted brother of James, known as Sonny. He was a part of the crew of one of 460 Squadron, Royal Air Force, which was an Australian outfit at the time and the only Australian in the crew was the captain, all the rest were English people. Sonny was a WOP, wireless operator gunner, air gunner, mid upper. I know all this because at times when he came home he’d bring home different parts of his uniform, his headset, all this business which to me at that time was heaven on earth.
DM: What was the age difference between you?
MC: The age difference I suppose was somewhere in the region about, I was what, five, two, fifteen, I suppose there must have been about between ten to fifteen years age difference. And of course he would bring, he would come home for the forty eight or whatever it was, forty eight hour pass, whatever it was he got, and he’d come home and we’d have the time of our lives as much as I can remember. I mean this is going back now to the good old days of 1943 when I was seven, so the age gap there is seven, fifteen, seven to about I suppose what, must been eight, eight year gap, but that didn’t come into it. I, I saw him as my brother when he came home. He brought home a couple of times John Hughendean, who was the captain, pilot, and Australian, and all I can remember him was a tall guy, he must have been about six foot six, and he was, he was a lovely man. And he came with him and we had those few days. I had the time of my life because I could go out when he went back off leave and I could go home and I could relay to the rest of the lads of my age now of what he was, what he’d been doing or what he told us what he’d been doing, and I was cock of the roost because my brother had been flying up there. And then, of course, when the news come through, stop. [Whisper] When the news came through, all, all hell was let loose and from that day on until, oh what, I was twenty three, twenty three when I got married, twenty three, until I was twenty, about twenty five, it was never mentioned. It was a [paper shuffle] a blank page. That’s it. Can’t help that. Yeah, it was never spoken about, the reasons, to me at that time I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t have been thinking what mum and dad were thinking. Mum really took it deeper than dad did, obviously, and it was never spoken of, not until of all things, it was, we went away on holiday, now where did we go? Yeah. We went, we went to Spain on holiday and we met up over meals and whatnot, and we met up with a gang of youngsters who happened to be German. God bless ‘em, and they were great, they were beautiful kids. I mean we were in our what, late twenties at this time, late twenties, and they were teenagers and we, I got talking to one girl one evening and just saying you know, where do you come from? ‘Oh I come from Germany.’ I said, ‘yeah, I gathered that,’ but I said whereabouts?’ Because also at that time I’d done my National Service and I was posted to Germany and I did my National Service in the air force in Germany and I loved the place and I’m just interested and I said, ‘where do you come from?’ ‘Oh’ she said, ‘you wouldn’t know where I come from, I come from Wuppertal.’ The red flag went. I said, ‘Wuppertal?’ ‘Oh yeah,’ she said, ‘oh,’ she said ‘It’s a beautiful place.’ I said, ‘oh!’ She said, ‘do you know it?’ I said ‘No, I know of it.’ I said, I’ve heard different places like Berlin, Dusseldorf and places like that,’ I said, ‘and I’ve heard of Wuppertal,’ and I never said no more and it wasn’t till we come home and till mum was saying how was the holiday, oh fine, lovely. Sheila, my wife talking, ‘yes,’ she said ‘we met up with some German people.’ And I thought then, oh please. Anyway mum never said anything so I said, ‘no,’ I said, ‘they’re lovely, a couple of lovely girls that we were speaking to,’ but I said, ‘you know they, they were telling us where they come from, they come from Wuppertal.’ And with that mother just turned round and said: ‘that was Sonny’s breaking point.’ Now she’d never spoken, what you were talking about just now, she’d never spoken about it, that long gap. So I thought oh, all right, now’s your chance. I thought no, no I won’t. So yeah, I turned round I said lovely girls saying about you know, what it was like there and they got, that she was proud that they got I think one of the only trams that are hung above the street level and she was pleased as punch to think that there’s not another place like it in the world and I gradually, I was able, I don’t know how, but I was able to twist a little bit and found out that he’d done so many trips beforehand, like the rest of the lads did, but something about the Wuppertal raid must have really hit home to him for some reason, because it really hit him hard, and he wrote one letter home and mother showed me, and I can’t find it now, but you’d think he was talking about his brothers, who he was dropping bombs on. I can’t get the equation right.
DM: No.
MC: But that was the only time that she really spoke about it, in all those years and after that, at different times certain things happened, like as I say I was in the RAF and different things happened and I could talk freely, I could talk freely, freely because I could talk about them German people, and those German people I met were gorgeous, some of them were better than ours. So, and then that got me, got me thinking well I don’t know, I don’t know a lot. I’m going to see if I can find out a bit more and I started fishing, as you do, and got different little bits and pieces and then -
DM: Would this have been before the internet, so you were having to sort of do all the legwork and everything?
MC: Oh yes, this was before the internet. I didn’t know where, where the hell to go and I tried the Air Ministry and all I got from the Air Ministry was that we cannot tell you because it’s the thirty year period or whatever it was at that time, and you know, we can’t divulge because you are not -
DM: Next of kin I suppose.
MC: Next of kin and all this business and I, it got to the stage where I thought I just don’t want to do it any more. So I left it. But then, as you can see, there’s three Lancasters over there, there’s another one behind you there, which is my prize at the moment, and there’s another one behind me there. So you can see I haven’t lost, I haven’t lost touch. And of course then this boy came into business, this one, he came into business. [tapping] And then of course I’m not au fait with it but the wife’s getting on better than me, so we sit down at different times and we go through it, try to go through it, and different pieces like I found out that the whole crew, their whole names, Bullimore, Dickens, Walker, Sycamore, Archibald, names that I never knew. I knew Hughendine and I knew he was Australian, and then, then I thought oh, can I get anywhere, and I was fiddling about with it one day and I’m still trying to find it to this day and it must be now what, oh, at least a year, I happened to flick through and hit on a briefing of, or not brief, a debriefing of a Luftwaffe pilot who did the damage, and shot down, or him and his partner, shot down [cough] my brother and I think it was Nettlejohn was another guy they shot down. Now I can’t find it. I think I’ve sent it off to one of my cousins who, [cough] strangely enough we had a bereavement in the family and I met up with a cousin who I’d never seen for [whistle] god knows how many years, and his boy, who’s a big grown up lad now, I mean, doing his own business and whatnot, and I got talking to him he is doing a family history. And he said, ‘god,’ he said, ‘just right timing ‘cause,’ he said, ‘have you got any bits and pieces of your family? Because it was Uncle Jim wasn’t it, was my dad’s brother was Uncle Jim, your dad.’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘Oh, cool, that’s good.’ I said, ‘Look, I’ll tell you what I’m doing it exactly the same as you, but I’m do the, or trying to do Sonny’s records.’ ‘God.’ ‘Tell you what I’ll do, I’ve done some,’ I said, ‘I’ll sling ‘em through to you and if you get anything you can throw ‘em back to me.’ Well I did, I sent him the log book here. I sat down with the wife and we did a copy on the ipad of his log book, and sent it through to him. Oh, he was over the moon, blah, blah, blah. So it’s now come back now and it’s coming back now and it’s coming back to now. But since going to, my daughter bless her: ‘I’m taking you up to Lincoln, Lincolnshire.’ ‘What for?’ It didn’t, didn’t go in. I’m too old to pick things up quick. ‘I thought what we’d do is, we’d have a weekend away. I’ve booked a Travelodge up at Lincoln,’ and things began to twig, oh yeah, and ‘I thought what we’d do is go to this place, it’s called Canwick,’ and I said, ‘yeah,’ ‘and it’s near the new museum.’ And I thought you little, little so-and-so, but she said also if we’re going to do that, it’s all in the same area, we could do East Kirkby.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘yeah,’ I said, ‘Just Jane, East Kirkby, cor, yeah. And Coningsby’s not far up the road and you could go, perhaps you could go there, and the Battle of Britain Flight.’ Well this was all my, all my easter eggs come at one go. So I said, ‘Well, you sure about this?’ Cause I said, ‘you know, you’re taking a lot on. I don’t think you’re going to be able to do it all ‘cause Coningsby’s closed I think it is, on the weekends, I think it’s closed.’ Anyway, ‘well,’ she said ‘we can always knock one out if we can’t do it.’ She said, ‘Do you want to go to the museum and East Kirkby?’ So I said, ‘well yeah, yeah, course I do.’ Which we did, and then of course we did East Kirkby first, and then from East Kirkby we went back to the hotel, and then the next day, I mean we went back to this hotel, and got to the hotel, booked in and all, did all that, went and had a meal and whatnot, had a walk and they got up in the morning and they went off out while they were waiting for us to get ready. And when she come back, she said ‘you’re not going to believe this dad.’ So I said, ‘what?’ ‘Well,’ she said, ’we’re going to the museum, the new Bomber Command place.’ I said, ‘yeah, that’s all right.’ Well she said, ‘you’ve only got to walk,’ I said, ‘what are you talking about?’ I said, ‘It’s not in walking distance!’ She said ‘It is!’ she said, because ‘if you look here,’ and she walked me I suppose a matter of fifty yards, and she went, ‘that’s where we’re going aren’t we?’ And where the place was, where we were staying, to the new museum, Bomber Command Museum, was a matter of about a couple of hundred yards walking. So we did those two, and she said all being well, she said if you want to go back up and go to Coningsby we’ll do that at a later date. So I’ve now got to the stage where I’ve been thinking about it, and I’m an old man, I ain’t got much longer. I’m eighty three, I’ve got all this paraphernalia here. They’re not going to want it, ‘yes we’ll take it dad,’ hmm, okay they’ll take it but they’ll put it in the cupboard, bless ‘em, and they’re gonna stay there, aren’t they, what are they going to do with it. So anyway this is where this lady at the Bomber Command Museum, that I was talking about, she took us on the tour, and like an idiot I didn’t get her name, but she was a lovely lady and she took us round and we were laughing and joking and talking and I just happened to say that I’d got his log book, ‘Oh you haven’t, have you?’ I said ‘yeah,’ ‘Oh!’, and then off the cuff I said well if its any good to you, you can have it.’ And I think she thought the same, all her eggs had come in one basket. I said, ‘well there,’ I said ‘you can have ‘em. I’m getting to the stage now where they come out at different times,’ I said, ‘my memory’s all around the place.’ ‘Oh would you, would you really?’ I said yeah. So that brings us I think to a closure,
DM: What did you –
MC: In as much as this business now if it goes to you. If it’s any use to you, I will hand it over to you. Don’t want to sign anything if you don’t need it, because it’s there.
DM: Okay.
MC: if you look and you think yes we’ll have that, we won’t have that, you do that, I won’t be offended.
DM: Okay. I’ll have a look in a minute. What did you find out about the circumstances that your brother died in? You said that you found out who shot him down.
MC: Not a lot. This business with the Luftwaffe guy, I mean he, he went into quite a detail, because it wasn’t only, he only, not only shot one person down, I mean [cough] he got quite a few to his record. Good luck to him. So he put in this article, and I mean if it’s any good to you I can get it and send it on to you because it was quite interesting, and as I say I can’t for the life of me find it, which is the idiotic things we do, [blows nose] so -
DM: So looking, looking at your, at this bit here, actual paper here, it’s saying they were flying to Turin on the night of 12th 13th July 1943 and it failed to return to base and I see they are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial so clearly they were never found. They’re not buried anywhere that you know of.
MC: That’s right. No, because that is on there, that goes on a bit further there. And also it says that it was, this guy, this German guy says it’s there -
DM: So out in the Bay of Biscay basically.
MC: So, we’re talking you’ll never find.
DM: No, that’s right.
MC: So all they’ve done is, this come off the internet, and all they’ve done is they’ve given a proposed route where he could have come off on anywhere, from the UK there and I take it he went that way to it.
DM: Yeah, I would think so. So it looks as though, if he was lost in the Bay of Biscay, they had completed their mission and were on their return trip.
MC: They were on their way back which would have taken them now over Annecy and out that way and supposedly somewhere round there is where that, those lads lay.
DM: Yeah. It says here he was twenty years old when he died.
MC: That bit there, and there, which you would read, sorry to take that away form you when you’re reading it.
DM: It’s fine.
MC: But then also – what oh.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Mike Cope
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Meanwell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-11-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACopeM181127
Format
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00:26:04 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Second generation
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Description
An account of the resource
Mike is the adopted brother of James (known as Sonny) who was in the Royal Air Force with 460 Squadron. The crew were all English apart from the Australian pilot. James was a wireless operator/mid-upper air gunner. Mike was seven in 1943 when his brother’s aircraft was shot down over the Bay of Biscay on the night of 12/13 July 1943. No bodies were recovered. James was twenty years of age. Mike’s daughter recently took her father to RAF East Kirby and the IBCC where he donated the logbook belonging to James.
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Anne-Marie Watson
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-07-12
1943-07-13
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
460 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
childhood in wartime
shot down
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1095/11554/PRichardsSJ1701.1.jpg
423cd47d71ee02b49191494a23839591
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1095/11554/ARichardsSJ170322.2.mp3
ea476708802e3c90dea11098a537f344
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Richards, Sidney James
S J Richards
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Sergeant Sidney Richards (b.1920, 13846882 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as an air gunner with 49 Squadron and became a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Richards, SJ
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DM: Okay Sidney. Can you tell me just a little bit about where you were born and about growing up before you joined the RAF?
SJR: Ah yeah. I was born at Greenwich, Harley Cottages and eh war came and I was working in the arsenal. I could have stayed in there but em decided to join the air force and I joined and I was accepted em to train as the air crew and carried on from there.
DM: Can you remember where you trained?
SJR: Pardon?
DM: Where did you train? Can you remember?
SJR: I trained at, oh wait a minute? [pause] In the Midlands. Near Nottingham it was. Yeah. In the Midlands.
DM: And you trained as a Wireless Operator Air Gunner. Is that right?
SJR: Eh?
DM: A Wireless Operator Air Gunner. Is that right?
SJR: Yeah. Wireless Operator Air Gunner. Yeah. I was accepted as that. You had an interview if you wanted to be aircrew to see if you were suitable [coughs] and they said okay and I had the interview and all the rest of it and they said ‘We’ll accept you in aircrew’. [pause] Of course it was a voluntary thing, aircrew. [coughs] So em the retraining from then on, aircrew.
Other: You were gonna join the em the Navy weren’t you? But changed your mind at the last minute.
SJR: Yeah. Changed my mind. Was gonna go in the Navy and then the Air Force and then I changed me mind and decided to have a go in the Air Force as aircrew. You know.
DM: Can you remember why you changed your mind?
SJR: Pardon?
DM: Can you remember why you changed your mind?
SJR: Well, I fancied aircrew. You know.
DM: You wanted to be a fly boy?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: So after you trained, do you remember anything about crewing up? Can you remember how that went? How you found your crew?
SJR: Oh yes. Em. Well you all mucked in together and generally had a chat with each other and Bob Petty was my skipper he was the pilot and eh we got together that way talking to each other and so on. And em then we became a crew. And it was a good crew I was in and eh Bob Petty he’s gone back to South Africa or he’s gone to South Africa. Otherwise I expect we’d have kept in touch but eh I don’t have the training. So eh.
Other: Who else was in your crew?
SJR: Pardon?
Other: Who else was in your crew?
SJR: Oh, there was the navigator of course. [mumbles]
Other: Who was the navigator?
SJR: Eh. The navigator? Oh, John Tulloch. Yeah he was the navigator.
Other: And you were particularly friends with him, weren’t you?
SJR: Yeah. Oh John Tulloch. Yeah.
DM: Was he Scottish by any chance? [chuckles]
SJR: [chuckles] Oh John. Yeah.
DM: Thought he might be.
SJR: We got on well together. He lives in London so we used to meet up at times in London, you know? Him and his wife. And eh have a meal and so on, so oh yes, as I say he went off to South Africa.
DM: So you were based in, was it Fiskerton you were based?
SJR: Fiskerton. Yes.
DM: Fiskerton yeah. What was it like there? What was life like on the base?
SJR: Oh just normal you know. We used to go into the village have a drink. You know. Eh just normal sort of country life. The locals had to put up with us [chuckles] so eh. That’s about it. We used to go into Lincoln for a night out or anything. Of course the Midlands was full of aircrew like me. And eh the airforce weren’t bothered as long as you were there for ops. You could do what you liked virtually, but as long as you were there they’d say ‘Ops on tonight’ as long as you were there. But otherwise it was a pretty easy life. Nobody interfered with you or anything so eh, we had an easy time of it when we weren’t on ops. [chuckles]
Other: Was there one time you were cycling home from a pub one night and someone tried to stop you? Wasn’t there a policeman stood in front in the road?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: What happened there?
SJR: Eh I forget now.
Other: You and a couple of others were cycling back.
SJR: Yeah. [hesitates]
Other: And didn’t the policeman suddenly jump out in the road to stop you for some reason?
SJR: Yeah. I can’t remember.
Other: Can’t remember.
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: He tried to stop you and you just cycled round him.
SJR: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, that’s right.
Other: [laughs] and waved goodbye.
SJR: Yeah and rushed out and we just, as though we were gonna pull up and stand there and everything, so we just shot away [laugher] [coughs]. Well that’s what life was like in the Midlands with aircrew and everything. Nothing to lose, you know. Here today, gone tomorrow type of attitude. But eh it was alright otherwise, as long as you were there for flying they weren’t bothered what you got up to really.
DM: Can you remember anything about your first operation? Your first flight?
SJR: Eh. First one [hesitates]
DM: How did you feel? Were you sort of nervous before you flew or?
SJR: Oh you were apprehensive, you know. It was over the Ruhr. A lot of raids were over the Ruhr. That’s where everything was there. And eh you just got on with it, you know. And eh landed back again, had a nice meal and went to bed. So they didn’t interfere with you much in those days, the aircrew, you know. As long as you were there for your job that was it but eh you could come and go in those days as much as you liked really. As long as they said you were on tonight as long as you were there. So it was an easy life really.
DM: Do you remember, cos you said you flied over the Ruhr. Do you remember much about the flak? Was it bad over there?
SJR: Oh well, flak yeah. Eh plenty of flak going in and eh you dropped your bombs and you go up another two thousand feet when you got rid of them and so it was quite a nice peaceful flight home cos you were too high for the em they used to, flak used to go off lower and over the Ruhr coming up to the Ruhr you got plenty of it. Occasionally you’d see a plane go down but eh well I did twenty like that and eh had a good crew, a good pilot, Bob Petty, and eh that was it. As long as you were there for any trips you know, aircrew, they didn’t bother too much what you got up to [laughs].
DM: Did you have any encounters with enemy aircraft?
SJR: Any what?
DM: Encounters with enemy aircraft? Did you ever get sort of shot at by other, by German aircraft?
SJR: Shot at?
DM: By Germans. Aircraft.
SJR: Oh yes, yes.
DM: By the Luftwaffe.
SJR: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but eh well we got shot one time and the rear gunner and the bomb aimer were both killed with this fighter attack. But eh the rest of us were a bit higher so the bomb aimer was there and the rear gunner was on the same level so he came in and let fly and took out these two lads. So eh we brought them back, you know, we got back and eh two lads dead. But it was all the way you lived those days, you know. So eh all sorts of unexpected things could happen [chuckles].
Other: What was it like when you took off? Your Squadron took off?
SJR: Yeah. Oh eh just taxied round got the go to go and eh off we went.
Other: Did, were they all seeing you off. All the ground crew?
SJR: Oh yeah, yeah. We had quite a little group wave us off. WAAFS and eh specially nice to see the WAAFS out there. [chuckles] And eh it was always a bit of a night. They’d line up at the end of the runway and give you a wave as you went off. So eh.
Other: What was your relationship like with the WAAFS? Did they have much to do with you?
SJR: Oh, not a lot. Only in the mess you know.
Other: Yeah.
SJR: Eh that’s em
Other: But they didn’t get over friendly, did they? You told me.
SJR: Oh no, no. Aircrew no.
Other: Why was that?
SJR: Here today and gone tomorrow. Type of thing you know.
Other: Yeah. So they didn’t want to get involved?
SJR: Yeah, well they would have a late date or something and the bloke would get shot down or something. So they weren’t that with aircrew.
Other: Yeah.
SJR: Too unreliable. [chuckles]
Other: Yeah.
DM: So when you lost your two crew members, you obviously had to have two new ones or did you just get sort of different people every time after that?
SJR: Oh no. Crews were fixed all the time. Yeah. Oh yeah. Cos you knew each other and you could rely on each other so you didn’t have, you generally had the same aircrew. Cos you knew who they were and they knew who you were. So eh you didn’t want to go on another crew.
DM: And were all your crew NCO’s or was anyone an officer?
SJR: Were what?
DM: Were all your crew NCO’s or was anyone an officer?
SJR: Oh no. NCO’s and officers you know. Our eh, our pilot was an officer.
DM: But you mixed in off the base I guess, when you went out?
SJR: Oh yes, of course, yeah. Blimey, yeah. Well you’re all in the same bracket so that’s you know. So there was no, ‘I’m an officer and you’re a NCO’ or anything [chuckles]. No.
DM: Now you said you flew twenty missions?
SJR: Yeah.
DM: What happened on the twentieth mission?
SJR: I got shot down.
DM: Was that the one when you got shot down?
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
DM: Tell me about that.
SJR: Eh?
DM: Tell me about that. What happened?
SJR: Eh, well we got hit by flak and a fighter, a fighter, got us.
Other: What happened when you took off? Did you, you had a problem with one of the engines didn’t you?
SJR: Oh, yeah, yeah. We actually got to the target a bit late. So of course they were already
Other: But did, did, Bob Petty, he radioed back to everyone to say that we’ve got an oil leak? Didn’t he?
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: And what did he say?
SJR: Eh, told us to carry on I suppose.
Other: Well, did, did, but he asked you if you wanted to carry on or not. Didn’t he?
SJR: Yeah, yeah, and we, yeah that’s right. Yeah. He said do you want to carry on and we thought well we’ve got all ready crewed up, you know? Ready and so on so we said ‘Yeah, let’s go’. So we got over the target that bit later than the first wave. So eh we should really have turned back. We shouldn’t really have gone, but em once you get all ready you go. So eh, that was it.
DM: So you got hit by the, by this aircraft and so then I assume that the pilot gave the order to bail out? Did he? Is that what happened?
SJR: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, he didn’t need to tell us about that [chuckles]. We bailed out and hoped for the best.
Other: What did you do when you were hit? Did you go back and check to see if the gunner was okay?
SJR: Well, no, not really, I mean.
Other: You were the second to last one out, weren’t you? There was only Bob Petty came out after you?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. No, no. It’s every man to get out and that was it.
Other: Right.
SJR: You all looked after yourself. So you didn’t go round asking [chuckles]
Other: No.
SJR: Or anything, so when you got the word to bail out that’s what you did.
Other: So three or four others got out in front of you, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah. Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Other: And the plane was getting low.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And you were trying to get through the escape hatch. Didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: Didn’t you get stuck?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. Stuck a bit, yeah.
Other: And then what happened?
SJR: Oh I got clear, dropped out. But we were sort of losing height all the time. So eh.
Other: And, did, you got searchlights put on you. Didn’t you?
SJR: Oh yeah, yeah. Searchlights. So I was lucky they didn’t eh [chuckles].
Other: And you tried, you moved the parachute [unclear]
SJR: Yeah, I tried to get out the beam but couldn’t get out.
Other: They were shooting at you weren’t they?
SJR: I think that’s what they were. That’s what I was afraid of. [laughter] But as far as I know. Otherwise they would have hit us, you know, dangling down like that. Yeah. And of course when you’re not sure where you’re gonna land when you, when you hit the ground. You know?
Other: Where did you land?
SJR: Oh, I can’t remember now.
DM: Is it
Other: Sorry. You landed in someone’s back garden. In a tree, didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
Other: And the house owner?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: He came out didn’t he?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: With a pistol?
SJR: Pardon?
Other: He came out and pointed a pistol at you didn’t he?
SJR: Yeah. That’s right, yeah.
Other: And how did you feel?
SJR: Eh.
Other: Cos he was shaking. He was shaking, wasn’t he and you got worried.
SJR: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh well. All part of life those days [chuckles].
DM: So who, who, after you landed in this German chap’s garden? He came with a pistol. It sounds though he was more worried about it than you were. So did he arrest you or did the police or the army come?
SJR: Oh. What? When I was
DM: When you landed in his garden.
SJR: When I landed [mumbles] Oh, I can’t think now. [pause] It must be the airforce.
Other: The police?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.The police.
Other: Wasn’t it the police who came and arrested you?
SJR: Yeah. The police, yeah, yeah.
Other: They rounded you up with the others?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: So did all of your crew get out safely? Or?
SJR: Em. Let me think, now. [pauses] It’s all a long time ago.
DM: Oh, yes. I know, yeah.
Other: The other, the crew members who got out before you ended up in Berlin centre, didn’t, the centre of Berlin, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And you heard nothing more from them.
SJR: No. Well it’s some that did land there were lynched. So eh
DM: So it could’ve happened to your
SJR: Yeah. So.
Other: And you, you and the pilot, because you were the last out, you landed in the suburbs, didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. Out of Berlin, yeah. So we were a bit of a curiosity rather in the suburbs [laughs] [mumbles] rather than landing in Berlin.
Other: What did they call you? [pause] They called you something, didn’t they?
SJR: [unclear] they called us. Or something like that, I don’t know.
DM: That’s right, yeah. So, you and Bob were reunited when you were taken prisoner? You were sort of gathered up together were you?
SJR: Eh. No, I don’t, no we weren’t eh. I forget that we were split up I think.
Other: You were put in a
SJR: Eh?
Other: You were put in a, in a police station, weren’t you?
SJR: In a what?
Other: In a police station?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: With others? With people who were sheltering from the air raid?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: And what happened? You had some cigarettes on you didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And what did you do?
SJR: [pause] Oh, I forget now.
Other: You offered, you offered some cigarettes.
SJR: Oh, that’s it, yeah.
Other: You gave cigarettes didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. They were gratefully accepted too. [chuckles] All this a long time ago.
Other: And then what happened? The soldiers came along didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And they marched you out.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: Across a field, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah, that’s right. I thought I was gonna be shot. [pause]
Other: What happened? Did he, he kicked you, didn’t he?
SJR: Eh?
Other: One of the soldiers kicked you?
SJR: Kicked me?
Other: Yeah.
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: And what did you do?
SJR: Eh?
Other: And what did you do?
SJR: Kick him back? [chuckles] No. [laughs] Didn’t do anything. [laughs]
Other: Didn’t you push him? Push him away?
SJR: Yeah. Pushed. Yeah, yeah. Pushed him. All this was all, you know, all, everything happening at once type of thing. All a jumble.
DM: Can you remember if they interrogated you? Did they sort of
SJR: Eh?
DM: Did they interrogate you? Did they try and get you to tell ‘em all your secrets?
SJR: Oh yes, yes. Oh, they interrogated you. Yeah. But eh you know they used to take you in and put you in solitary and then take you in for interrogation. But eh they used to advise us before we went not to try and be clever. Just to say nothing. Not try and put them off or anything. You know. Just to eh don’t tell ‘em anything. Oh yeah.
Other: What did you say? What did you tell them?
SJR: Nicht verstase [sic] [chuckles]. Don’t understand.
DM: They didn’t, they didn’t question you in English? Or did they?
SJR: Oh yes.
DM: They did?
SJR: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Other: What were your conditions? Cos they kept you in a cell, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. In a cell.
Other: And what was it like in this cell?
SJR: Oh, dead boring. It was just a cell, you know.
Other: With a light on all the time?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: What was it? Was it hot or cold?
SJR: Oh, just normal. So eh [pause]
Other: And they pulled you out all the time. Didn’t they? They kept pulling you out.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: When you were asleep.
SJR: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Take you in for interrogation. Before we were shot down they used to say ‘Don’t try and be clever in interrogation’, you know. Just say, you know, nothing. But don’t try and be clever to put ‘em off or anything. Cos they’ll soon eh catch you out.
DM: So eventually, you obviously ended up in a P.O.W. camp?
SJR: Eh?
DM: You ended up in a P.O.W. camp?
SJR: Yes. Prisoner of war.
Other: How did you get there?
SJR: Eh, train.
Other: And what was it? You had a, did you have a nice comfortable seat?
SJR: Oh, yeah.
Other: You did?
SJR: No, no. And I can’t remember
DM: Was it a cattle truck or something you went in, or was it a proper carriage?
SJR: Eh?
DM: Did you go in a cattle truck or something, or were you actually in a carriage with six.
SJR: Oh, in a carriage. No, no. They didn’t put us in a cattle truck. [chuckles]
Other: When they marched you there, they had the, they marched you down the middle of the road, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And all the locals would come out.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And what were they doing?
SJR: Oh, just having a look.
Other: Weren’t they kicking you and punching you?
SJR: Oh no.
Other: No?
SJR: No. No.
Other: I thought they kept you in the middle of the road?
SJR: Oh yeah.
Other: Away from everyone.
SJR: Yeah. Oh yeah. But no there was, they just came out and had a look.
Other: Right [pause]
SJR: So many things happened in those days, it’s a job to recall it all. You know?
DM: What time of year was it when you got shot down? Can you remember?
SJR: Em, May.
DM: Right.
Other: No, it wasn’t.
DM: No?
SJR: Eh? When was it?
Other: It was coming up to Christmas, wasn’t it?
SJR: Was it? Oh.
Other: And you were upset because you had been feeding a turkey?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: You told me.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And that was one of your thoughts. You thought, ‘I’m gonna miss Christmas and I’ve been fattening this turkey, and I’m gonna miss it.’
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: Wasn’t it?
SJR: Yeah. It was just before Christmas.
Other: Yeah.
DM: So I imagine it was pretty cold and bleak at the P.O.W camp, was it?
SJR: Oh yes, yeah. They didn’t look after you too well, you know. Didn’t make it too comfortable [chuckles]. But eh it was just a prisoner of war camp. I could’ve gone either German or Russian. But those days Russians were a bit unknown quality. You didn’t quite know what they were like, so I thought, well, we’ve got an agreement with Germany about P.O.W’s so eh I went with the Germans, and not with the Russians. Because they held some back, bargaining and all this business for years later. But eh, oh well. That’s what war’s like [chuckles]. Nobody wins huh.
DM: Did you make any friends in the camp? Anyone in particular?
SJR: Oh, in the prison camp?
DM: Yeah.
SJR: Oh, I suppose yes. One particular bloke I was friendly with. He cleared off to South Africa when we got back. And eh, oh you get to know some blokes and eh you chat about your civilian life, or where you lived and this sort of thing. So eh anything to pass the time.
Other: There were some Russians in your camp, weren’t there?
SJR: Yeah. [pause]
Other: Weren’t, they were starving, weren’t they?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. They didn’t feed, overfeed them.
Other: What did they do?
SJR: Eh [pause]
Other: Because you were starving, weren’t you?
SJR: Pardon?
Other: You were starving. And you had big pots of food put outside and you, you in your hut,
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And everyone in your hut [unclear] that. Didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: But what happened when you put the empty pot outside? [pause] Didn’t the Russians come round?
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: And try and find
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: All the scrapings.
SJR: Well, they didn’t look after them at all. The Russians. All this a long time ago.
DM: Do you remember the Red Cross parcels?
SJR: Red Cross parcels? Oh, yeah. A godsend they were. Oh yeah, yeah. Blimey, they were. When parcels came in and you could barter with parcels, you know. Oh, they were an absolute godsend.
DM: Did you barter between yourselves, or did you barter with the guards?
SJR: Em, well between ourselves really if [pause]
DM: What sort of things do you remember being in the parcels that you enjoyed the most?
SJR: In the food parcels?
DM: Yeah.
SJR: Well I enjoyed all of it [chuckles]. I suppose, porridge, porridge oats and things like that, that were easy to prepare.
Other: You have a funny story about your Christmas dinner in the prisoner of war camp. Don’t you?
SJR: What was that?
Other: You, you put, you boiled up a huge pot of water and you put your tins of food in it.
SJR: Oh yeah.
Other: And what happened?
SJR: They burst didn’t they? Yeah.
Other: The labels?
SJR: Eh?
Other: The labels.
SJR: Yeah, yeah. That’s right, yeah. Yeah, the labels. All, yeah I remember now, the labels all came off so we [laughter]. So you’d written the name on the label [laughter] so at the finish we had all these tins, no labels and everything, so they just tossed them round and if you were lucky you got something good [laughter]
DM: Like a lucky dip!
SJR: Yeah. Otherwise that was it. Yeah, yeah.
Other: Otherwise you got a tin of brussel sprouts! [laughter]
SJR: Yeah, yeah but I mean daft things. It was stupid, wasn’t it? Putting them in there. Of course the labels are gonna come off. [laughter] Oh dear, oh dear.
DM: Do you remember, while you were in the camp, do you remember anybody making any escape attempts?
SJR: Making eh?
DM: Escape attempts from your camp?
SJR: Yeah. Oh yeah, You could get out of the camp all right but you couldn’t get out of Germany. So it was a bit of a waste of time. If you could’ve gotten out of Germany, but eh [slight pause] several tried it but just weren’t, you know, something to do, but they eh they all came back. They caught them you know. So there was, you couldn’t really get out.
Other: And what happened to the rest of you in the camp? [pause] Did the Germans wanted to dissuade you from trying to escape?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: So what did they do?
SJR: What was it now? [pause] Oh can’t
Other: They would keep you standing, wouldn’t they? On parade out there?
SJR: Oh yeah, yeah.
Other: For hours and hours.
SJR: Yeah, keep you yeah. That’s right, yeah. Keep you hanging about out there. So some blokes were collapsing, you know. [pause] All general fun [chuckles].
Other: There were some Americans in your camp, wasn’t there?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And what were they saying to you?
SJR: Oh, something about it wasn’t like that in America.
Other: Didn’t, didn’t, weren’t they saying ‘Last week I was in ‘
SJR: Times
Other: Times Square.
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: And they’d been arrested? Captured and they hadn’t fired a shot?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. Straight in and straight out. Yeah. And hadn’t done anything.
Other: And what happened to one of them who wouldn’t wash?
SJR: Oh, they washed him.
Other: How did they do that?
SJR: Oh, stripped him off. Hosepipe on him.
Other: With a broom?
SJR: Yeah. He wouldn’t wash and keep himself clean in the camp, you know? You’ve all gotta look after yourselves and he wouldn’t do it, so they said ‘All right we’ll do it for you.’ Had him out, stripped him off, put the hosepipe on ‘im and got the brooms [chuckles] and eh, well you couldn’t ‘ave somebody like that walking about not washing or kind of thing or anything. So eh nobody else tried it after that, I don’t think. [laughter] Well some of these Americans were pretty primitive, you know. I mean, fancy a bloke not wanting to bath or wash, you know. It’s a bit primitive, isn’t it? So eh that was the only way they did it and eh [chuckles] so we didn’t get any more. Yeah.
Other: Was there one of your fellow prisoner there? Didn’t he try to take some food?
SJR: Take what?
Other: Pinch some food?
SJR: Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yes. They gave him a hammerin’, beat him up.
Other: Did, they didn’t hand him over to the Germans?
SJR: Oh no. No.They wouldn’t do that. They dealt with him themselves and eh they got him in a ring and beat him. So nobody else tried it. [chuckles] Well you dealt with it yourselves, you didn’t want to get the Germans involved.
Other: No.
SJR: Somebody pinching food and so on. So eh it was dealt with by the prisoners. They dealt with him and taught him a lesson.
DM: Did you get letters from home? Did they get some letters through to you?
SJR: Eh, yes, yeah. Yeah, you could write home and eh far as I can remember. [pause]
Other: Was there another incident? You were playing football, one day, and the ball went over the inner, the inner fence?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: So there was an inner fence and an outer fence?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And the ball went in, into this gap?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And what happened there?
SJR: Eh [pause]
Other: There was a sentry, a German sentry saw ‘im going to get the ball didn’t he?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: And what did he do?
SJR: I forget now what [mumbles] [pauses]
Other: He shot him.
SJR: Eh?
Other: He shot him didn’t he? He shot him. He killed him.
SJR: Yeah. Oh that’s right. Yeah, yeah. There was a bit of an uproar in the camp, you know. But that was it. He was in a forbidden area, so he just eh shot him. So he wouldn’t get into trouble.
DM: Did you stay in the same camp all the time, or did they move you somewhere else later on?
SJR: No, no. Was in camps most of the time. And em [pause] course when the Russians came everything sort of burst open, you know.
DM: So the Russians liberated the camp? It was the Russians who got there first?
SJR: Yeah. The Russians, yeah. Oh dear. The camp poured out. [chuckles] Oh dear.
Other: What did the Russians say to you?
SJR: Oh, I can’t
Other: Didn’t they advise you to stay put for a while?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah I think that was it, yeah.
Other: But you and your mate Jock?
SJR: Oh we decided to walk back. Yeah, yeah. That’s right, yeah. And they told us to stay there, but we decided to walk from there to the other side of Poland and get back to our lines, you know. So that’s what we did.
Other: Didn’t the Russian prisoners get hold of one of the Gestapo?
SJR: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Other: And what happened to him?
SJR: Oh well [mumbles] All sorts happened to them. Oh it was all very grim.
DM: When you left the camp, you and Jock, and you were walking back to try and get to our lines, how did you survive? Did you take food with you or did you get food from people on the way?
SJR: Whatever we could get on the way back. Yeah.
Other 2: [quiet voice] Is there something about a chicken? [louder] Did you try to kill a chicken once?
SJR: Pardon?
Other 2: Didn’t you try to kill a chicken? On your way back, you told us?
SJR: Oh yeah. Tried to kill a chicken, yes. Quite right. Tried to kill a, [chuckles]. I said ‘I’ll have a go at it,’ and got this chicken the way my father used to do it, dead easy, you know, and I [unclear] this bloody chicken and eh [chuckles] Oh dear, oh dear.
Other 2: And did you manage to kill it in the end?
SJR: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh dear. My father used to do ‘em just like that, you know. [mumbles] I said I’ll do it [laughter]
Other: When you were walking back the Germans kept coming out to you, didn’t they? German civilians?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And, and surrendering, weren’t they?
SJR: Oh yes, yeah and all that sort of thing. As if we were going to do anything.
Other: Why were they doing that?
SJR: Well, they thought we might eh get our own back on them or something. [chuckles]
Other: No. No. The, the
SJR: Eh?
Other: The Germans, the civilians wanted to give themselves up to you, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. To the English or Americans, the Americans. Yeah. They wanted to be our prisoners and not Russian.
Other: Why was that?
SJR: Eh, well Germany and Russia didn’t get on so they’d rather be prisoners with us than with the Russians in those days. [pause]
Other: And then one night, didn’t you, you and Jock, you found a house?
SJR: Eh?
Other: You found a house? You thought you could go in there and perhaps sleep. Spend the night sleeping in the house?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And there was a woman there with two daughters, wasn’t there?
SJR: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Other: And what did she say?
SJR: Eh, ‘Oh, I’m sorry about this. There’s three of you and only two girls,’ or something.
Other: And what did you say?
SJR: Oh. [chuckles] We weren’t interested.
Other: Yeah. And why was that?
SJR: Cos we were too exhausted and hungry [laughter].
Other: Yeah. And running alive with lice you told me.
SJR: Yeah and so
Other: And you weighed about six and a half stone.
SJR: Yeah, that’s right, cos they weighed me when I [unclear].
Other: You weren’t capable of doing anything.
SJR: Eh?
Other: You weren’t capable of doing anything.
SJR: Oh. Oh no.
Other: And then what happened in the morning? You were sitting in the kitchen?
SJR: Oh, I don’t know about that.
Other: Didn’t the door burst open? The door burst open, didn’t it?
SJR: Yeah, yeah.
Other: And who, who was there?
SJR: Oh I can’t remember.
Other: Some Russians, weren’t they?
SJR: Oh Russians, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Russians.
Other: And they said to you, ‘Are you British.’ And what happened?
SJR: Oh, I can’t remember now.
Other: Didn’t they, they just closed the door and went away?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was a long time ago all this.
Other: You probably saved, just your presence there, saved the women?
SJR: Oh yeah. We certainly did. Yeah. Yeah. Oh everything was so wide open, you know.
Other 2: What was that? Can you remember those? Where you go those from?
SJR: [pause] Oh yeah. Yeah.
Other: What is it?
SJR: German eh, German, it’s German money, isn’t it?
Other: Yeah.
SJR: [pause] Yeah. [pause]
Other 2: You can’t remember where you got it from?
SJR: No.
Other 2: Oh.
SJR: Took it off somebody else I expect [laughs]. No I can’t remember.
Other 2: Yeah.
SJR: Oh, I brought this back did I?
Other 2: Yeah. Those were the things we found and we found this as well.
SJR: [pause] Oh my [pause] Yeah.
DM: So, what’s that, Sid?
SJR: Oh, they’re identification.
DM: From the camp or from the airforce?
SJR: Oh, from the camp.
DM: Yeah.
SJR: If anything happened to you, all they’d do was break off, break it across. That would stay fixed round your neck and they’d hand that in as another one dead. So that’s why it’s
DM: So, it’s perforated in the middle and they broke it in half?
SJR: Yeah, that’s it. They’d break it, put one with you and one to record it.
Other 2: We found all sorts of things.
SJR: [unclear]
Other 2: We found that. [pause]
SJR: Oh, what’s this? Where’s me glasses? [pause] One, two, eight, four, six, double two. That’s me.
DM: So what is that?
SJR: Eh. Eh.
DM: So what is it, Sid? What is it?
SJR: Eh. Let’s have a look?
DM: Oh right. Permission to be absent from duty. [laughter]
SJR: Eh?
DM: Permission to be absent from duty [laughter]
SJR: Oh! [laughter]
Other 2: Where were you off to?
SJR: Eh?
Other 2: Did you go anywhere nice?
SJR: [laughter]
DM: Did you have a girlfriend when you were?
SJR: No. No.
Other 2: Why not?
SJR: Well, moving around a bit and so on. So, and of course, the girls weren’t keen on us. Oh, yes. Royal Air Force.
Other: Didn’t a member of your crew get married?
SJR: Eh, yeah.
Other: And what did you say to ‘im?
SJR: Eh?
Other: And what did you say to ‘im?
SJR: Oh, I can’t remember now.
Other: Didn’t you say ‘Don’t get married.’ To wait until the war had finished.?
SJR: Oh yeah. Yeah. He got married during the war.
Other: Yeah.
SJR: Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. Yeah.
Other: And you said?
SJR: Yeah. We said to wait until the end of the war. But eh he came in and said he’d got married and that was it.
Other 2: Who was that? [pause]
SJR: Oh, dunno. [pause] George Lancaster, probably a Flight Engineer. George Lumsden. Hello George. [chuckles]
Other 2: Was he on your plane when you got hit?
SJR: Eh?
Other: Was he on your plane when you got hit?
SJR: Oh, I expect so.
Other: Can’t remember what happened to him?
SJR: No. Flight Engineer.
Other 2: And what about him? [pause]
SJR: Eddie Smith, rear gunner.
DM: Was he the rear gunner who got killed?
SJR: Eh, yeah. Eddie Smith. That was him.
Other: Didn’t, didn’t, every time you took off, didn’t he have a little phrase? Didn’t he say something?
SJR: Eh, something about the tail up, or something.
Other: And then on your last trip out there he didn’t say it did he?
SJR: No.
Other 2: Oh lord!
SJR: Poor devil got killed. Old Eddie. Nice lad. Rear Gunner. Killed, yeah. Second, third December, yeah. Yeah, yeah, just before Christmas.
Other: He said, he usually said, ‘Here we go lads,’.
SJR: Yeah, that’s it.
Other: As you came
SJR: When the tyre went up. He was a rear gunner.
Other: Yeah.
SJR: So when the tyres went up and he said, ‘Here we go.’
Other: And then this particular, your last flight
SJR: Yeah.
Other: For some reason he didn’t say it.
SJR: No, he didn’t say anything. Yeah. Weird really. A lot of peculiar things happened. Poor old Eddie. Yes, second, third December. Oh dear, yeah. Yeah, we brought him back and the bomb aimer. We had two dead that night. [pause]
Other 2: We found those as well. I don’t know who that handsome chap is? [laughter]
SJR: Oh dear, yeah. [pause] Yeah.
Other 2: What happened with them? Was that when, did the Germans take those pictures?
SJR: Yeah.
Other 2: Could you remember that?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: Who are they?
Other 2: It’s Dad.
Other: It’s you.
DM: It’s you. Your Kriege pictures.
SJR: Yeah. It must have been.
Other 2: Cos you look different there. Was that when you’d just got captured or? You look all clean. Had you just been captured then?
SJR: Yeah. Must have been.
Other 2: And it’s got your RAF number on, hasn’t it?
SJR: Yeah.
Other 2: But then this one has got a different number. What’s that number on there?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. These were found and with the Germans had them.
Other 2: Oh right.
DM: So you found those after the camp had been liberated, did you?
SJR: Yeah. Oh yes. Yes.
Other: You don’t look so happy there.
SJR: No. [laughter] No. Been shot down and beard and everything. Yeah. Identification yeah, sort of thing. Oh dear. Oh dear. Those were the days. [laughter] Royal Air Force. [pause]
DM: So you, you and Jock headed off through the German countryside, tried to kill a chicken, em and when did you make contact? Did you make contact with the Americans or with the British?
SJR: Em, Americans.
DM: What happened then, when you, when you
SJR: Oh they were okay. Yeah. Looked after us and eh all the rest of it you know. Got us back, you know. They were okay.
DM: How did you get back to Britain? To England?
SJR: How’d I get back?
DM: To England?
SJR: Oh, flew back, I expect. I can’t remember. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Flew back.
DM: Did you ever think of staying in the Air Force after the war, or couldn’t you wait to leave?
SJR: Eh. I did have thoughts about staying. I was a Warrant Officer. So I had a rank and so on and it was a toss up, you know. In some ways after, I wish I’d have stayed in. Cos I had a rank and all the rest of it.
DM: So, before you went in the Air Force, you were working in the Arsenal you said?
SJR: Yeah.
DM: So what, what job did you take on when you came out of the Air Force?
SJR: Eh, I, in a drawing office. In the central office.
DM: What sort of, what did the company make? What were you drawing? What?
SJR: Copying and that sort of. I can’t remember exactly.
Other 2: That was in the Arsenal, wasn’t it?
SJR: Yeah. In the Arsenal.
DM: So you went back into the Arsenal after?
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. I went back, back in the Arsenal. And eh so I could have stayed in the Air Force, in fact. I was, in fact, I wished later I had carried on in the Air Force. But eh, you get the idea of getting back into civilian life again. And eh [pause]
Other: What did they do to get you, what did the authorities, what did the Government do to get you back into civilian life?
SJR: Oh, they put us on our er, our sort of leave of course, you know, to get us, you know, introduced back into civvy life again.
Other: They took you to some places, didn’t they?
SJR: Yeah, oh yeah. Took us around. Oh we were, we were well looked after when we got back from Germany. Yeah, looked after us quite well. Oh dear, so many things happened those days that eh it’s hard to recall it all. [pause]
Other: And what happened when you, cos you left the, the Arsenal after that, didn’t you?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And what did you do then? [pause] Insurance?
SJR: Yeah. Insurance. Yeah, yeah.
Other: Became an insurance agent.
SJR: Yeah. Oh yes, that’s yeah.
Other: And you did, did that throughout your working life, didn’t you?
SJR: What?
Other: Insurance?
SJR: Yeah, yeah. Oh these are the old badges [laughs]. Signaller. Oh dear, oh dear. Warrant Officer. Good rank, Warrant Officer. Nobody interfered with you. You do more than some of these young officers. So they didn’t like interfering with you. [chuckles] Cos you do a bloomin’ sight more than they did. Oh, that’s a dart medal I won.
Other 2: Where did you win that?
SJR: Eh?
Other 2: Where did you win that?
SJR: I think that was in Germany. Yeah [chuckles]
Other: So you had like competitions and things in the camp?
SJR: Eh, yeah.
Other 2: Did you play sport as well?
SJR: Eh, yeah. Oh dear. Different life altogether.
Other 2: It is. [pause] We found that picture of you and two friends. You haven’t put names on the back.
SJR: Oh yeah.
Other 2: Do you know who they are? [pause] They haven’t got anything on the back. Eh? [pause]
SJR: No, no. [pause]
DM: Have you ever been back? To Germany?
SJR: Eh, no I don’t think so. Well I can’t remember. No, I haven’t. No.
DM: What about to Fiskerton? Have you been back there?
SJR: Where?
DM: Fiskerton? Where you were based. Did you, did you, have you visited back the airfield?
SJR: Yeah. Oh, I’ve been back there. Yeah.
DM: Good memories?
SJR: Eh?
DM: Did you have good memories:
SJR: Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. As long as you were there, I was aircrew, so as long as you were there for flying, you virtually did as you liked, you know. So as long as you were there when there was something on, there was ops on, you had to be there. But the rest of the time they weren’t too bothered, you know.
Other: We went to Fiskerton, didn’t we? A couple of years ago.
SJR: What?
Other: We went to Fiskerton.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: A couple of years ago.
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And there’s a memorial there, isn’t there?
SJR: Yeah.
Other: And you looked out and you saw the ground where the air drums were.
SJR: Yeah. Yeah. Fiskerton. Yeah. Midlands.
Other 2: I bet you went in the pub.
SJR: Eh, yeah. I had [unclear] in the pub there.
DM: That’s you, isn’t it? On your return visit.
Other: That’s you at the memorial. [pause]
SJR: That’s me?
Other 2: It is. [laughter]
Other 2: I took the picture.
DM: It is. And your favourite son. [laughter]
SJR: Oh, yeah. These are [mumbles] RAF Fiskerton on the occasion of [unclear] ninety-six. Oh good God. [laughter] [pause] German P.O.W. photographs of Sydney Richards. Ah.
DM: That’s em.
SJR: Oh that’s em look at that yeah [mumbles]
Other 2: So young.
SJR: Yeah. Look at that there. [laughter] God. [laughter] Yes, a smart lad. [chuckles]
Other 2: [unclear]
SJR: [mumbles] That was a long flight.
Other: Yeah.
DM: How did you feel about bombing the Germans?
SJR: Eh, well didn’t have any feelings really. We were at war and they sent us to mostly were military, you know. We weren’t bombing civilians populations. No, the military, the Rhine, Rhine Valley all along there. All factories. When we were bombing them. But we weren’t actually out to bomb, we had a couple of trips to Berlin, I suppose, which was just to let them know. But eh otherwise it was all just military targets, factories and so on. So anything to disrupt them. So eh.
Other: And it’s war, isn’t it?
SJR: Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. Put their factories out of action. So eh and the rest of the time we were out in Lincoln, living it up. [laughter]
Other: Living it up. Yes.
SJR: Oh dear. Well they did need a [unclear] at all, you know.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sidney James Richards
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Meanwell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ARichardsSJ170322, PRichardsSJ1701
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Pending review
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01:05:14 audio recording
Language
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Sydney James Richards was born in Greenwich, London and was working in a drawing office in the Arsenal before joining the Royal Air Force. He was originally intending to join the Navy but changed his mind as he decided he preferred aircrew. He did his training near Nottingham as a Wireless Operator Rear Gunner and was stationed at RAF Fiskerton. He became a Warrant Officer and flew twenty operations before having to bail out over the suburbs of Berlin on his twentieth. He was captured with the pilot of his crew, Bob Petty, and became a Prisoner of War. Two of his crew were killed on an earlier operation when their aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire whilst flying over the Ruhr. He was liberated by the Russians and he walked out of the camp with his friend and they walked until the found Americans who helped them get back to England. When he left the Royal Air Force he went back to his previous employment and subsequently became an Insurance agent which he continued to do for the rest of his working life.
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Tricia Marshall
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
South Africa
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
49 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bombing
prisoner of war
RAF Fiskerton
training
wireless operator / air gunner
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/840/10832/AGouldWP180619.2.mp3
03e6c6b88b0419886cb537eb12bf4e07
Dublin Core
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Title
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Gould, William Paul
W P Gould
Description
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An oral history interview with William Paul Gould (b. 1925, 1818674 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 622 Squadron).
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-06-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Gould, WP
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DH: Right. Ok. The numbers are turning over now so I apologise, we’re going to start again.
WG: All again.
DH: All again. But at least we haven’t got very far. Right. Because I’ve just, I thought the numbers aren’t ticking over. Right. Ok. Right. Ok. Right. From the top then. Here we go. This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Dawn Hughes, the interviewee is Mr William Gould. The interview is taking place at Mr Gould’s Home in Telford, Shropshire on the 19th June 2018. Thank you, Bill, for agreeing to talk to me today. Ok. First of all can I ask you again about the lead up to the war and how you came to join the RAF?
WG: Well, I, obviously I was at school before the war and my interest in flying was started probably when I was around about the age of seven or eight and I made little gliders to start with and, with balsa wood and little bits of well sticks for lighting the fire were carved down to make bits of planes and models of course. And I suppose I was influenced to a great degree by people like Amy Johnson to go and fly to Australia and —
DH: Wow.
WG: But there were an awful lot of difficulties that she got over. She was, she were really, was bitten by, by flight I think. Anyway, from there of course you leave school and eventually you start work. The war came before I left school and I started at a local motor engineer’s at Stafford. So I got on the train every morning down from Stoke Station down to Stafford. Then it was the same ride back to go to the Technical College which is right by the station. And again I got interested there in, in other people’s model making but the old urges were still there, you know. You don’t lose it. As I said, I joined the Air Defence Cadet Corps at the Grammar School. We were the first ones in Stoke on Trent to have that. The other school, High School had the Army Cadets. I don’t think we had a Naval version in those days. Anyway, it was from, from that we learned all about flight and air movement. Practical so far as the construction of aircraft are concerned but not of engines. And then of course I had a friend who was with me in the Air Defence Cadet Corps and we were I suppose sixteen and quite a bit and decided we’d go along to the Recruiting Office and volunteer for the Royal Air Force. Of course, they had a bit of a laugh when they found out we were still sixteen but we didn’t expect to go straight away. Next week perhaps [laughs] Eventually they, they sent for us to go down to Birmingham for a bit of an interview and medical and then we were virtually a little selection as to what type of job we were expected to be proficient at in the Air Force and my friend got flight engineer straight off. I was unfortunate. They shipped me in as a wireless operator/air gunner. Now, I, I had a little difficulty with the Morse Code in the Air Defence Cadet Corps but they didn’t take any notice of that. They wanted wireless operator/air gunners so you were in. I eventually survived to get out of that and remuster to flight engineer. They took me, took me down to Eastchurch on the Isle of Sheppey. Anyway, so I remustered there and went then from there to Locking in [pause] just south of Bristol and started the [pause] what is the first step from ITW? Training for a flight engineer. And then it was the next posting was the little bit further up the line to go to St Athan, South Wales to really get down from the, well the nitty gritty of being a flight engineer and we actually had aircraft to play about with [laughs] From there of course eventually you pass out and it was seven days leave and report back to a flying station. And we’d no, no crewing up there but we did a bit more ground training and one or two of us were lucky we got off the deck a few times. And then I got posted to Initial Flying Training Wing and initially at Bottesford, Lincolnshire and it was there that I was crewed up to a crew who had already been together for a considerable time. My skipper was an Aussie. He was thirty four and I gathered that he really did want to be thirty five which I thought was a pretty good thing really. So, we got a skipper that was from Australia. We got a navigator from Clitheroe, Lancashire. We got the bomb aimer from, well the first one was from London but he had problems. He was airsick most of the time. We’d only got to get the wheels of the ground and he was violently sick so he was stood down, and we had another bomb aimer that joined us. As a rookie he’d just come from Canada having done his bomb aimer’s course in Canada and a part of a pilot’s training course as well. The wireless operator again after a little bit of a hick-up with the crew. Again, another one that was not as well as he thought he was so he was, he was stood down in favour of a laddie to finish his tour off because he’d, he’d flown on Blenheims. First of all in the United Kingdom and then he was posted out to India and on his way back from India he was on operations in North Africa when the push, a push was on. And then he came to, back to the UK to eventually find himself at Bottesford and we, he crewed up with us and he was very, very good. He really, he was a laid back airman. Really laid back. He had a motorbike and his girlfriend was in the Land Army and he used to leave the camp on the motorbike and go and see his girlfriend and of course you need petrol. He was very adept at finding out where the local Army bases were. Always the Army. Never the, never pick on your own Force and he used to go in to their camps, find out where the petrol depot was and just arrive and get them to fill him up with petrol and then he’d sign for it and off he’d go.
DH: Cheeky.
WG: He was. He was a W/O by this time. Of course, he’d done an awful lot of service, and he was a warrant officer so whether they thought the very smart uniform that he’d got was extra special I don’t know but they certainly served him with the petrol. He didn’t always use the same base but he, invariably he did. He was the most laid back person I’ve ever met. We, we, had a lot of fun after the war. I did manage to get his name and address and I went out with his wife to France with the Blenheim Society and we went to their, their old base which was a place called [Virieux] in the Champagne country. Oh, the Royal Air Force certainly picked some very nice places. It’s a pity we couldn’t have defended it a bit better but it was a very nice spot and a very hospitable local community. We had some lovely times going out to [Virieux] as the Blenheim Society. Yeah.
DH: The squadron that you were put on to. That was 622 Squadron.
WG: 622.
DH: Yeah.
WG: 622, that I eventually went to from Bottesford. But before we left Bottesford and we were in the, it was not good weather whilst we were there, and I used to pass it regularly after the war because I used to go up to Grantham every weekend and, working. And from Stoke on Trent you go straight past or straight through the village and the village is on reasonably level ground but there is a mound of which the railway put a line across the top of it and then at the beginning, virtually at the beginning of the village there’s a very nice church with a spire. It had three red warning lights on the top so that, you know you could really see it because it just pipped the top of the embankment from the railway and it was just to the right of the line that was the main runway. So when you were going on the runway at night you got the red beacons on the top of the steeple. Well, one night we took off and how we, just how much clear it was of the top I don’t know but I’m certain that had there been a train on the line we would have knocked it off. Or they would have knocked us off actually because we, we hadn’t got enough airspeed and anyway I looked up at those three red warning lights. I can remember it now so well [laughs] And then we were posted. I think they thought they’d get rid of us before we did some real damage.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Anyway, we were put on the train to the station near to the Mildenhall camp and then the lorry fetched us two. My rear gunner was from America. The USA. His residence was in New York. His father worked for the Underground. Yeah. And my mid-upper gunner was from Lowestoft, and the son of a butcher so they had a butcher’s, family butcher’s business in, in Lowestoft. And he was, he was quite laid back. We got a guy out of the armoury on one occasion, and he decided that we’d, he had a car and he decided we’d have a little bit of shooting practice. He did the shooting. We drove along the country lanes and if a pheasant or a partridge or a rabbit or whatever showed its face well it was as good as dead. And then he tried with, he tried with the proprietor at the Bird in Hand which is right by the aerodrome [laughs] he tried to get him to do the bit of culinary work. And then he found out that, ‘Where did you get these, this game from?’ You see. And he happened to be one of the members of the local Shooting Society. So anyway he got around that one. Talked his way out of the pot. Anyway, I had, we had a very lucky tour. One of my early trips was to, dropping mines. And we seemed to do an awful lot of mine dropping. Usually briefed by the Royal Navy who did the fusing. Especially when they were after something particular, they’d set these things up just to put the right vessel. We had, we had a very lucky tour really. No, no nasty things. We got peppered a few times but they soon put a patch on [laughs]
DH: What was the Lancaster like to fly in? What was the Lancaster like as an aircraft to fly in?
WG: Oh, wonderful.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Wonderful. It was an aircraft with no, to me with no vices.
DH: Oh.
WG: You could do things with it that with a lot of aircraft you’d be in trouble if not serious trouble with. But they seemed to say look have another go because you didn’t quite get it right, you know. Yeah. It was a wonderful, wonderful aircraft.
DH: So on an operation as flight engineer what, what, because some of them would last anything up to eight hours wouldn’t they? So what would you do during that time? Can you just describe that?
WG: The brief time in between.
DH: The time in between take off and —
WG: Oh.
DH: Actually dropping the bombs and then coming back.
WG: Well, most of my, most of, if it was a night attack you were on your own. And it’s just a matter of really speaking once you’ve taken off you do two things. You’re keeping a check on your own petrol consumption particularly, the state of your engines and if anything else was untoward. As did happen on the odd occasion and you had to do a little bit of, ferret around to see where things weren’t quite what they should be. But mainly it was a matter of keeping your eyes open and making certain that if there was anybody about it was a friendly one and not too close. I saw the first, my first experience was over Belgium with the V-2s. I mean you suddenly saw a vapour trail go right in front of you. Just a little bit disconcerting.
DH: God.
WG: It was just a massive, well, you’ve seen the rockets go off and it’s just that massive vapour trail. We were up at about twenty thousand feet and this thing suddenly passes you.
DH: When you were dropping the mines, the ones that the Navy —
WG: Yes.
DH: So can you describe what the targets were?
WG: Well, the targets are just a landmark or a sea mark.
DH: Right.
WG: It’s just pure straightforward navigation, and you studied your maps before and you knew what little nooks and crannies you were looking for to drop these things on the shipping lane. It’s mainly stuff coming out of Kiel but you know warships that we were after.
DH: Yeah.
WG: But we did drop them way up to the Skag, to get to iron ore vessels I think they were. We were never told. We were just given a location and fortunately we dropped them on the locations but with, when the Navy had briefed you or at least they’d done the setting up of the mines they would come back and tell you that yes you were successful, you know.
DH: That’s good.
WG: We had that. Yeah, oh yes. We got what we were after.
DH: So did you, can I ask what the date was when you joined 622 Squadron? What, what year and month? Doesn’t have to be exact.
WG: Oh, it had to, it does seem funny saying nineteen doesn’t it?
DH: I know.
WG: Yes. You were on to [pause] Yes, 1944 local flying. Yes. When the, I’ve got two here. One is a local familiarisation. That’s, you know you just arrived at the place and you want to know where everything is round you. That was on the 17th of December. On the 17th again we did a cross country. That would be in the, in the evening. And then a fighter affiliation. And then we did an ops on Trier. This is when the, we, we had the Battle of the Bulge. When they were fetching all their equipment through the railway yards at Trier. So we were called in to bomb. Bomb Trier, yeah.
DH: So, that was bombing, that was the Germans at Trier.
WG: The Germans at Trier.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Yes. And then the 24th of December we’re coming up to a very interesting time at Christmas. And we did another one on the airfields at Bonn. That was quite peaceful and we were diverted on the return because of fog and we landed at a little place with beautiful aircraft, Mosquitoes. And that was at Little Snoring, which if you look it up on the map you’ll find it’s, well north of Norfolk. And we landed there and of course the Air Force being what it is, trying to look after you properly and take care of Christmas Day we were, we were at Little Snoring you see and we couldn’t take off because of fog at one end or the other. If we were clear Mildenhall had got fog. When they were clear we’d got fog. So we were there from the 24th until the 29th, 28th when we flew back. But they came and picked us up with five others and brought us back to have Christmas dinner [laughs] Lovely. Lovely. Yeah. And then we, again we did a night. A night. A night job on Koblenz and we dropped that with instruments, on Gee. Yeah. And we, we virtually jettisoned the load. In fact, it was just dropped. It was not put on to a pinpoint target. It was just get rid of them because we’ve got problems with the Gee. GH equipment.
DH: Can you explain that a bit more?
WG: Well, it’s instrumentation that put you in the right place and it gave you a marker that you’d got to drop the bombs, you know. And with a bit of luck they all went down in the right spot. Nothing really untoward. It’s just the fact that the equipment we’d got was not fully serviceable and we had to jettison. We were a little more fortunate on the 31st of December because we actually did one on Vohwinkel which is on the marshalling yards. So you’d got a fair, a fair target to spread eagle your bomb load. Yeah. [pause] That’s something like nine, nine hours. Nine hours flying time. Not bad. Four and a half there, four and a half back. It was all the usual targets really. Places we’d heard of from 1939 when we’d gone out with Blenheims and Fairey Battles which a squadron had in ’39 out in France, Fairey Battles. They got minced. Minced up because they were attacked on the floor. We’d arranged them all in nice little parking lots so it makes an easy target to come down in one swoop and, you know you get the lot. Do you want any more?
DH: Yeah. Can you name some of them because you said some of the places that you recognised?
WG: Oh, I remember some of the names. You see, Dortmund. Well known to everybody. We’d all heard it on the news from 1939.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Munich. A lot of things went on there. My little note here there were no serious opposition. In other words we never saw any night fighters and the flak wasn’t that heavy either.
DH: Right.
WG: Krefeld. You see we’re coming now to December of, and January. January of ’45. Well, the war was, really speaking it was on its way out, you know. The Germans had got enough to do to try and stop the Army. They still put up a very serious opposition with night fighters because they could, their radar was so good.
DH: Oh right.
WG: They could vector people in. Tell them where to go and then I think they’d even got you on, well they’d got your number marked really. That’s one thing that [pause] whether it was better radar than ours I don’t know but it certainly, it certainly enabled them to put fighter aircraft too damned close to you and they could see you.
DH: Did you ever have any close shaves?
WG: These were all night.
DH: Yeah.
WG: All my early ones were night. Night attacks and then we started to do daylights and that was lovely. You could see where you were going. And by the logbook I don’t think we wanted them to have any heating because we were doing coking plants. They were making up, they were making petrol so [pause] Yes, little though, we got the, we got the coking plants alright. And it just says here complete cloud cover and flak moderate. Sometimes you felt if it had been put out as a paper you could have walked on it.
DH: Really.
WG: Sometimes it was very, very heavy. Yes. Oil plants. We’d gone on to synthetic oil plant here at Wanne Eickel. Then we had a little bit of practice and we did sort of a low level attacks on Ely Cathedral. It’s a wonder it’s got any glass in it with people passing over so low.
DH: Yeah.
WG: But they were nice little local runs you see. Take off, do a couple of little circuits on it and then back to base. It was back in time for tea. Yeah. I had quite a little spell in late January with local, local flying. We put it to good use because we used that as the test flying for when we dropped the food and that’s only three months away but all these were low, low level exercises. Oh yes. We were doing a photo shoot on at low level as an exercise and then it was hindered by a snow storm. Yes. [pause] Then one or two, well certainly one raid here that I didn’t like to be on. Coming from Stoke on Trent going to Dresden which I’d been taught as a boy on the wonderful ceramics that had been made there. To go there was almost like dropping it on, on [unclear] you know. But I think that’s about the only time I had any conscience at all about dropping bombs. Yeah, it’s funny that’s come to light. I haven’t looked at this for an awful long time. Little name here. Wiesbaden.
DH: Right.
WG: When we had [pause] that was using our Gee equipment, and we were up at twenty six thousand feet taking notes. And then we got on the 13th Dresden. As I say this really did bring it home as a pottery lad. It was a bit naughty, but it was the worst flying weather that I’d ever experienced.
DH: In what way?
WG: All the way, well for a considerable time across France we were in thick cumulus cloud and being thrown about like a cork in a rough sea. It was wicked. But it got us. Well, it partially relieved my conscience because we were, we had to abandon it. Yeah. There. The ice coming off the propellers and bits of aircraft, and flak might have been flying outside. It was hitting the aircraft and it really gave you a thumping.
DH: So that was bits of ice coming off other aircraft.
WG: Yeah. Yeah.
DH: Flying out. Wow.
WG: Which were the worst conditions that I ever flew in.
DH: Yeah.
WG: And then the following night we did the adjacent city of Chemnitz. And yes, that was done with marking the target with flares and we took, you know target markers and we dropped on those. Then we came a little bit closer to home with Weisel. Which is where the Canadians and ourselves, the English made the crossing across the Rhine.
DH: Right.
WG: And we went there sort of three days. The 16th, the 19th and the date we went, or when the Army crossed. I know there were three. Yes. On the 23rd and they really gave it a peppering going in and coming out. It was very heavily defended. When we, my neighbour from Oakengates, he said when they crossed, they crossed when we bombed it, he said we made such a damned good job, he said you couldn’t get down the streets for masonry. We flattened it.
DH: Oh my God.
WG: They had to get the bulldozers across quickly to clear the path to get the troops across. But they’d peppered us for certainly two of my trips were very heavy.
DH: Your specific target that time for those three was it the German Armed Forces? Was it marshalling yards? Was it —
WG: The target was preparing the ground for the Army to go in and take the, take the town.
DH: Right.
WG: But it was very heavily defended both from a point of view of anti-aircraft fire and for ground fire to meet any opposing troops.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Yeah. Weisel. Weisel. Dortmund. Gelsenkirchen. That was a nicer one [pause] and then one I did with another, another skipper and we were brought back to, because of fog we had to land at Tangmere on the south coast. And then it was Dortmund again. They liked that place didn’t they? And Gelsenkirchen. Yes. Both very well clouded over. My note here. Ten tenths cloud. Yes.
DH: You mentioned where you’d had quite a peppering and it’s been heavy flak. Have you ever had any really close shaves?
WG: One at night that really did rock us because the gunners, my mid-upper gunner swears that he was trying to get us on the radio, on intercom, and he, bellowing down it and checking his connections and, before I reported that we’d got an aircraft on the starboard side and we took a little bit of evasive action. Just dropped perhaps fifty feet and he was very relieved after. When we, when we were out of trouble his intercom started to work. It was funny that. He said, ‘I’d seen the darned thing and I was trying in fury to tell everybody.’ That’s Cologne. And Gelsenkirchen. Ham. Weisel, and yes [pause] Kiel. Kiel Canal. The German Navy. Naval base. And then we did another little gardening trip. We called mine laying gardening. And we were in the Kattegat so it’s sort of a nice little area out of Kiel and yeah, the thing was you’d got to keep, you’d got to keep low all the way from England. You were virtually skimming the tops of the waves all the way to the target and you’ve got to go up above Denmark and then down. You didn’t, you wouldn’t climb to get over Denmark. You’d go around the top and then down. You planned it all to stop the night fighters finding you. We were lucky. We were very, very lucky. And then we come to the very happy events really. Then we come to the supply drops. The Manna. Operation Manna which gave the, certainly the Belgians and the Dutch a lifeline, because they had, well they just had no food.
DH: Yeah.
WG: And they, they used to go out along the railway lines in the hope that they might get enough coal to light a fire and it was bitterly cold. A bitterly cold winter. Aye, there was people that suffered and they were eating, eating the fruit of their wares, tulip bulbs. Dear.
DH: How many runs would you do across to Belgium and Holland?
WG: Food drops?
DH: Yeah.
WG: How many did I do? That’s one [pages turning] Yes, two. Three. I did two on Rotterdam there. One on the Hague. Yes. Dropped them on the football ground. Oh, the racecourse. Yeah. That was nice but it was totally the ingenuity of the ground crew to lash up this mesh across the bomb bay.
DH: Yeah.
WG: That you could drop the lot all at once, you know and it was all, all the food. It was all obviously in its packages, but it was put in two sacks and if, if one sack broke the idea was that the other one might save it and fortunately most of it did.
DH: Good.
WG: They [pause] Yeah. I remember these. I remember looking down and you could see the faces and they had pieces of cardboard and on it they’d [laughs] it’s funny. They were eating their livelihood, their tulip bulbs. They were eating those as food. They’d got nothing [pause] and they’d got little notices. Whether it was in chalk or what I don’t know but it just said, “Cigarettes please.” [laughs] so —
DH: Did you take them cigarettes?
WG: We, we, on the second trip we did get some, the gunners to drop through the slots in the, in the rear turret. We pitched a few packets out. We kept them in the cellophane wrappers, you know and just, I mean we were low. I mean we were not much above the height of these houses.
DH: Really. So the cigarette drops were unofficial then.
WG: Oh, it was totally unofficial. You know what you’d done one these appeals for cigarettes and you smoked yourselves in those days. You realise what they were perhaps going through. The pangs. So it was a matter of an easy way out. And the rear turrets had hardly got any, you know there was a big hole because the gunners didn’t like to see the Perspex. If it, if there were specks on it you’d think it was an aircraft. So most of the gunners had part of a cover unspoiled with the removal of the Perspex. Yeah. That was, that was one. I must, yeah. It was, it was upsetting to see these people down below. We knew they were starving. You don’t do the type of drop that we did without food. And to lash it up in a matter of a few days and get the supplies to the airfields because there was an awful lot of, you know you’re dropping seven hundred tons. A lot of. Not one aircraft [laughs] but it’s all got to be got the aerodrome. And —
DH: How many aircraft would there be doing that?
WG: Well, we [pause] I suppose 15 Squadron at Mildenhall were putting fifteen aircraft in the air and we were certainly putting fifteen out of 622 Squadron.
DH: Wow.
WG: So we, somewhere I had the tonnages but I’ve lost those. Yes. And then we were called on. We did the last food drop on the 7th. And on the 10th, this is in May we were asked to go to, or ordered to go to Juvencourt in France to pick up ex-prisoners of war. Now, this was, this was doubly emotional really. The first one that I was able to speak to we’d loaded them in, we carried about twenty and I got one up right by me. But you tell them, ‘You’ll have to stand back there when we are going to take off because I shall be, I might have to come back here quickly.’ And no problems with him. The rest of them were sitting, sitting down on what is the bomb bay. The roof of it. And we sat them down there, a couple of them along the flight bed and they were, they were fairly close together. No, no ‘chutes of course. No harnesses. Just whatever they were standing up in outside. That’s what they flew in. And this boy, he didn’t look much older than, well he certainly wasn’t. I didn’t think he was anywhere near thirty, put it that way and he was picked up very, very early in the war. Before, way before Dunkirk and he said, ‘We were told to go out — ’
[telephone ringing – recording paused]
DH: Ok.
WG: I got him up by me and explained what would happen on take-off. That I would be assisting the skipper and where if you, you know put him in a nice safe little spot. And in the conversations before we’d taken off it was that he’d been sent out on a night patrol to pick up a German prisoner and find out, so that the intelligence could find out where he, where he was in the way of the German Army. Obviously, they would know his rank but they were after his regiment and what the regiment was equipped with and so on. Anyway, this lad found himself on the wrong side of the wire and he was picked up instead of him taking the prisoner and he did the rest of the war as a POW. He was in reasonable state. He was a bit, you know the worse for food or poor food, and he said overall he hadn’t been too badly treated which wasn’t quite the case as we came to the finish, because there was an awful lot that were trying to get away from the Russians and they were force marched really. Anyway, this poor lad was, had served most of his military career in a German POW camp. Yeah. It’s, it makes you wonder afterwards where all these people went to.
DH: Yeah.
WG: Because I’ve, we fetched a fair few back from, from Juvencourt. I’m just wondering how many more I did there. The food drops by the way and the returning, the POWs, ex-POWs. They don’t count as operations.
DH: Oh right.
WG: Yeah.
DH: So, at an operation you’ve got to be being shot at.
WG: Yes. Although, the first few aircraft that went out to Belgium were fired at but only, I mean you’ve got Germans that were being hassled. They were told not to fire. But the news didn’t always get to the men did it?
DH: No.
WG: You know, it would be back in the billet. One, two, three, four, yeah. There were four there in quick, quick succession. Eleven, fifteen, sixteenth, twenty first, twenty third. Just a [pause] yeah, and then that brings us safely to the end. The end of the war. And then I was posted very quickly. ‘Get your kit together. You’re posted.’ And I never had chance to say thanks a million to my skipper, my navigator, my bomb aimer, wireless operator and the two gunners. Never. I regret it. It rankles a bit.
DH: Yeah.
WG: It was close as close and then you were [pause] I was, I don’t suppose I was the only one but there were too many that never got really to say cheerio or even get addresses.
DH: Not like today is it?
WG: I managed to through, through the Blenheim Society, and I don’t know how I was contacted by them but I went out to the base that 15 Squadron were on out in France. They were there in 1939. And through that I met my old wireless operator, and he had obviously had more time, he was able to furnish some addresses and again I picked up crews from them.
DH: Yeah.
WG: From him. And when I go to Mildenhall I always go over to, for the reunion. I go over to see my mid-upper gunner at Lowestoft.
DH: He’s still there? He’s still alive?
WG: Yes. He’s ninety three. We were, we were the two juniors in the crew, yeah. My skipper as I say he was, he was thirty, thirty three when we met him and he wanted, he wanted to live to be thirty five so [laughs] And then Paddy. Paddy, I picked up oh very late when he’d finished his, he’d stayed in the Royal Air Force and he’d flown on Javelins which was Delta Wing aircraft, you know. Yeah. And he’d flown, flown on those. And I rather think the rest of us we’d all finished up as ground crew.
DH: Before we started the interview you were telling me about the bomb aimer. You told me a little story about how he was, he didn’t do what he was told and and, and what sort of bomb aimer he ended up being really. Can you explain that for us please?
WG: He was a bit of a naughty lad. He was sent out to Canada to train as a pilot, and he liked to see what was on the ground I think and particularly when it was in front of the CO’s accommodation. And he sort of did his little bit of aeronautics low level, fast in front of the COs offices and whether he got annoyed with the noise through his windows I don’t know, but Paddy was hauled up a number of times and told stop the low, you know to stop his low flying antics. And I think it was the third attempt by the CO he decided the best thing he could do for the Royal Air Force was to ground him. Take him off flying. Paddy said, ‘Well, if you won’t let me train as a pilot I’ll train as a bomb aimer,’ he said, ‘But I’ll be the best — ’ blankety blank, ‘Bomb aimer you’ve turned out.’ you see. Which I believe he was. He was very, very good. We only, I think one day on the Ruhr we had to go around twice and the skipper told him off when he got back. He said, ‘Don’t ever you do that again.’ [laughs] So he always made certain he got it well lined up before we got too close. Yes. He was, he was quite a boy. I took him, I had a little two fifty side valve motorbike and no lights, no dynamo. No nothing you see. So, it was all daylights for me. And Paddy was courting a girl. One of the nurses at Ely. Ely Hospital. And one day he came, he said, ‘Can you take me to Ely this afternoon?’ So, we’d got nothing on anyway so yeah fair enough. I said, ‘But I’ve very little petrol Paddy.’ So, ‘Oh, don’t worry about petrol. I’ll get you filled up.’ Which he did. And coming back they’d just been resurfacing roads in patches and there was a lot, quite a few corners and one of them had got quite a build-up of pebbles or crushed granite or something. A little motorbike didn’t handle too well when it’s, half its wheels, or half the depth of the tyres are buried in loose shingle. So I thought I was losing the front end and Paddy heaved himself, oh I’d stooped down. I was flat on the tank. He sort of heaved himself up off the two footrests and barrelled over me, and then rolled right in to a lovely clump of nettles. I mean it was a lovely, lovely bunch. But no hard feelings. His wife said afterwards I tried to kill him [laughs] but I’d never do that to Paddy anyway. Anyway, it was one of the family things that he remembered after the war to tell her.
DH: Did he marry that girl he was courting?
WG: Oh, he married the nurse, definitely. Yes. Yes. Oh, I admired his choice. Lovely girl.
DH: Looking back, apart from you said about Dresden with the Stoke on Trent.
WG: Yes.
DH: That connection. Have you got any regrets about the war?
WG: They’re all a total waste of human resources [pause] but unfortunately they become a necessity. I can’t think how we could have ever have got a peaceful Europe with the likes of Hitler.
DH: Yeah. What are you most proud of with your time in Bomber Command?
WG: I’m proud to have taken part in [pause] in so much of it. [pause] Yes. Overall, I think the Royal Air Force did a fantastic job and I’m proud of, proud of that side of it. And the humanitarian side at the end of the war because that certainly saved hundreds of people’s lives in Holland and Belgium. Holland was —
DH: Can I ask were you ever scared?
WG: Not, not scared. You’re trained to do a job and you were the crew that have trained to do a job and you realise that if we all do our job to the utmost of our ability and that’s all you can expect of anybody then ok, if we’re unlucky we get shot down. But we were, we were, when you think of the short period of time that people were together in training we were very well trained. I mean it takes an age now to get people from —
DH: Yeah.
WG: From Civvy Street to virtually to get them in uniform. To do a useful job flying takes an age. And you’ve got people with a far better education than we had and of course technologies. It hasn’t just jumped, it’s [pause] gone over. Who’d have thought twenty years ago that you could have a little thing in your hand, no, not as big as a packet of cigarettes that would communicate you, or give you communication to any part of the world and take photographs at the same time.
DH: It’s amazing.
WG: It’s just, you know one little thing. I mean, you, you have something today by the end of the week it’s redundant. I don’t altogether agree with it. [laughs] But it’s a fact. Technology has gone sky high.
DH: You said earlier on that once the war finished you ended up as ground crew. How long were you in the Air Force for after that?
WG: I came out in 1947. So I did two years after the finish. Then I was overseas.
DH: What did you do overseas?
WG: I was MT.
DH: Yeah. Did you —
WG: I was, supposedly I was in charge of the paperwork for the, part of the Air Ministry Works Department in Singapore. But I was never a pen pusher. I liked to get my hands dirty at times and I would go, I would go driving. Because you could pick somebody. Air Ministry Works Department wanted architects or perhaps quantity surveyors up at the north end of Malaya. ‘Oh, that will be very nice. Yes. I’ll go. I’ll take you.’ You see, and leave somebody else to do the nitty gritty back home doing the paperwork. That’s, that’s what I did. Do paperwork when you get back or [pause] Yeah, I had, I had a very easy passage. I just wish that it would have been a little bit better organised before and had at least a couple of days with the crew.
DH: Yeah.
WG: The poor lad from New York. I never got to say thank you or even bye bye.
DH: What did you end up doing in Civvy Street?
WG: I came out and I went out with my brother in law who had also been in the Royal Air Force. He’d been training wireless operators strangely. Yeah. Down in Compton Bassett and then up at Madley, Hereford. Yeah, I went with him because he’d started a china and glass retailing. Well, wholesale and retail, and stayed for the rest of his life.
DH: Did you continue doing that?
WG: I continued. I did about two years of it and then I came down from Stoke on Trent down to Shropshire then. This is where I settled and [pause] Yes, came down and I worked on an engineering works for a very short time and then I found a real niche in the gas industry on sales, and went eventually doing heating and air conditioning.
DH: Do you think your experiences during the war shaped how you, how you became?
WG: No, I don’t think it did. I think it made me pretty tolerant of a lot of things really. I don’t like bad behaviour in people. But perhaps it’s made me a little bit more tolerant than I was.
DH: Is there, I’m going to bring the interview to a close in a moment. Is there anything else that you can think of your time in Bomber Command that we haven’t already talked about that you wanted to mention.
WG: No. It was, well it was very fulfilling at the time. I think it was. I think it was wonderful how with so little knowledge even though I was passionately interested in aircraft, when you get in it you realise how precious little you know. But it does help to round off the corners I suppose. I think it’s marvellous how both Air Force, Army and Navy were able to train people from all walks of life to do specific jobs and do them damned well. I don’t know. I really think that’s, that is marvellous that they can put training programmes in which had been the basics of a lot of training in civilian life in all types, types of companies. Whether that some of them have learned it from there I wouldn’t know. Sometimes you — [pause] Yeah. To make somebody safe and safe enough to put with other people with very dangerous things in their hands or in control of. I think it’s, I think that’s a, that is a fantastic achievement from whichever Force it might be. And look at the technology that we’ve had. Crikey.
DH: Ok. It just remains for me then to say thank you very much for talking to me today.
WG: Oh, thank you [laughs]
DH: Very enjoyable.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with William Paul Gould
Creator
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Dawn Hughes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-06-19
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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AGouldWP180619
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Pending review
Format
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01:26:16 audio recording
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
William Gould joined the Air Defence Cadet Corps at his Grammar School in Stoke on Trent. After selection to join the RAF as a wireless operator/air gunner he went to RAF Eastchurch to remuster as a flight engineer, and from there did his training at RAF St Athan. He joined his crew on 622 Squadron at RAF Bottesford. From there the Squadron moved to Mildenhall to commence bombing operations on Lancasters. At the end of 1944 and beginning of 1945 he flew operations in support of the Allied armies advancing on Germany. He witnessed V-2 rockets at close hand. He took part in three Operation Manna drops to the Dutch people, and also took part in repatriating ex-prisoners of war back to the UK. His regret is that at the end of his tour of operations he was reposted so quickly he didn’t have the chance to say goodbye to his crew.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Kent
England--Lincolnshire
England--Suffolk
Wales--Glamorgan
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
622 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
flight engineer
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Bottesford
RAF Eastchurch
RAF Mildenhall
RAF St Athan
training
V-2
V-weapon
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1021/11392/AMartinFJK180309.1.mp3
a7c8b2de21c5a8f6d71d637fd2e397d1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Martin, Frederick Joseph Keith
F J K Martin
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview Warrant Officer Keith Martin (b.1921, 1580351 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator with 626 and 300 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-03-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Martin, FJK
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DH: Right. Ok. Right. Let’s start off with a serious thing to start off with. This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Dawn Hughes. The Interviewee is Mr Keith Martin and you like to be known as Keith, don’t you? Yeah. The interview is taking place at Mr Martin’s home in Wem, Shropshire on the 9th of March 2018, and thank you Keith for agreeing to talk to me today. So, the first thing I wanted to ask was thinking about the lead up to joining the RAF how did it come about that you joined the RAF?
FM: Right.
DH: And what influenced you?
FM: I can go back to living and working in Shrewsbury. I was working for quite a big countrywide firm of agricultural machinery merchants with a branch in Shrewsbury. Hence that’s where I was working. My calling up papers came quite quickly. I was eighteen and my boss said to me, ‘You won’t need to go,’ he said, ‘Because you are on a Reserved Occupation.’ Well, I was very immature. Honestly. No, I was very immature and so that suited me. And it happened again a year later when I was nineteen. But when I was approaching twenty and I knew it would happen again I was reaching the stage where you felt guilty really if you were comfortably sitting at home, when even your own friends were going off and so I said to my father, ‘I’m going to volunteer.’ He said, ‘Volunteer for the, for the Royal Army Pay Corps,’ he said, ‘Because they get you, you’re excellent at figures,’ he said, ‘To get you well behind a desk.’ And, I, I thought about that and decided no. I liked the RAF uniform. It’s quite true. I don’t want to go in to the Army in case I land up with a bayonet. And I can’t stand the thought of the water but I can’t swim anyway. And so I went and volunteered for the Air Force which I was accepted straight away, and on the 20th of April 1942 I arrived at Padgate which is North Lancashire for my indoctrination. That’s the right word. I was there for five days only during which time there was a group of about thirty. This squadron leader addressed us and he said, ‘Would any of you like to take an aircrew medical?’ And so, well a damned good idea having a medical so I put my hand up didn’t I? And of course I passed the medical, which mainly funnily enough was, and several other failed through vision. Vision. What I didn’t know, I was innocent at the time, that I had already volunteered for aircrew and about four days, be about the 24th of the month, April I was interviewed by the same squadron leader and he said, ‘Martin, your legs are too short for us to train you to be a pilot.’ And he said, ‘Your educational standard is too poor for us to educate you to, to train you as a navigator.’ I accepted that, because I only went to the Catholic, Catholic ordinary school. So, he said, ‘We’ll train you as a wireless op air gunner.’ ‘Alright, sir.’ The following day I was posted to Blackpool, and I found that Blackpool was the school that taught you two things. One was, the important thing was how to learn the Morse Code and how to handle sending and receiving, and the other thing that was important to them but not to us was how to learn how to march up and down Blackpool streets. Behave ourselves because we were not in billets we were out to houses. Took us in, you know. So they took me. Was it how many? The school for wireless operators was I think three months. May. June. July. That’s right. And I left Blackpool having passed out at the required eighteen words a minute on the 4th of August. Went home for a, once you got a break you know. And then nine days later I received a posting to a place called Yatesbury in Wiltshire, which was the flying part of the learning to be a wireless operator. Doing it in the air. So, in effect that was the first, my first meeting with an aircraft. So, from August to November I was training as a wireless operator air, from which you got your sergeant’s stripes if you passed out. And I passed out, and got my sergeant’s stripes and was then sent for a short, what I call waiting to be properly dispersed. A small, well yeah it was a waiting station and that of all places was Ternhill. And I was at Ternhill for [pause] three weeks from the middle of November to the middle of December, and then I was posted to Calverley in Nantwich. Near Nantwich. And that really was further progress, and I have an idea of what we were flying then. Memory you know. Very good but —
[pause]
FM: I think. ’43. No. That’s right. Calverley as I was saying was again just further progress on generally learning how to fly in the air, you know. Nothing particular. And then I was sent to Aircrew Recruitment Centre in London, and I didn’t really know why but it, it did, how can I put it? It was, in fact to tell me or to tell the person that they had been selected for A — wireless operator, and B — air gunner. And I’d been selected for wireless operator. And then, so then I was sent to 18 ITW, Initial Training Wing, Brignorth for just a month. Initial Training Wing speaks for itself. And from there, from that very station I got married.
[pause]
FM: Then I was posted of all places to a place called West Freugh in Scotland which was Advanced Flying Unit, which you have to be in an aircraft flying over the sea, and you had to go through certain rules and regulations to do what you had to do. Having passed out there in May 1943 [pause] No. No. Sorry, no. No. That’s before, having passed out in August 1943. That’s right, when I finished at Yatesbury, and then to West Freugh. I passed out there in October ’43. Sorry. I was only there about six weeks and I was posted to Hixon, Stafford, which is an Operational Training Unit and we were, I was introduced to Wellingtons, Wimpies. I was also within the first week [pause] I was introduced if I can describe it as the crew. The crewing up procedure need, needs talking about because it’s something that outsiders wouldn’t know. How do you get crewed up? Who does it? The answer is the pilot chooses his own crew. The end of the week that you’re there being introduced as I said to Wellingtons, you’re told to report to the, what was the big room that was used generally for dances and things, and there was thirty wireless operators, thirty navigators, thirty engineers, thirty rear gunners, and thirty pilots. Now, that was a crew of a Wellington. Did not include a mid-upper gunner because a Wellington does not have a mid-upper gunner turret. So the skipper chose his own crew, and I was there in the room and this, seemed to be elderly gentleman he turned out to be six years older than me [laughs] came along to me and he said, ‘You’re Sergeant Martin.’ ‘Yes.’ He was only a sergeant, so I didn’t have to say sir. ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘You’re from Shropshire.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘So am I, would you like to fly with me?’ I said, ‘Thank you very much.’ And that in effect, I say to this day saved my life because he was a superb pilot, and he got the crew together and instead of us being half a dozen individuals we became a crew. Right. So we then flew Wellingtons as a crew in training from a place called Seighford, which was a depot of Hixon’s’ and we were, I was there from November ’43 to January ’44. I think it was possibly at that time that we flew our first not exactly operation but our first trip over a foreign country [pages turning] Yeah. It was on the 30th of the December during that period that we were sent to do a leaflet raid over Belgium. This was one of the Royal Air Force’s ideas that every crew should taste flying over the sea and flying over what was still dangerous territory, and so that we got back and we hadn’t lost our nerve and we didn’t report anything silly. You know what I mean, and so that was the important thing and that was in a Wellington on the 30th of December. Having [pause] passed that, we then immediately got transferred to a four engine Conversion Unit. Immediately after that. We were not going to fly in Wellingtons in operations. We were going to fly in the new four engine bombers that were coming on line. And the first thing we did when we got there was pick up a mid-upper gunner. The mid-upper gunners had been trained ready, but had been sent straight to Conversion Units as they’re called because it was there that the, the skipper would pick one up and so that’s where we got hold of Jock. And now we were a crew of seven which you need. And so we did Conversion Unit at Sandtoft, and during that time had a crash. We crashed a Halifax [pages turning] We crashed a Halifax on the 6th of April 1944. We had a 5 o’clock take off. Evening take-off. It was only what we called circuits and bumps learning, for the skipper to learn how to take off and land and he had an engine failure on take-off. And because we hadn’t really got any height the skipper, the skipper decided to crash land. The decision he made we just accepted it, and in the subsequent report which I’ve got a copy of it says, “No pilot error. No disciplinary action to be taken.” But we were a bit, we were sent straight to the medical to be checked over, and we were a bit cheeky so in their wisdom they sent us straight up again. Well, in a few hours, 9.15 that night we went up again but this time we were also accompanied by a senior pilot as well as our own to see that there was nothing wrong, and that went on all right. And the amazing thing is we saw that Halifax the other, the next day or the following day and it was, it was a ruin. We’d hit a tree in a forest or in a field, and it had torn the wing off. But how we all got out alive I don’t know but we did. The aircraft was a write off. So, we —
DH: Can I ask what plane that was—
FM: That was a Halifax.
DH: A Halifax, yeah.
FM: An old Halifax. They only sent the old ones to training places. So we had a couple of little trips before we, whilst we were there when we had to go to learn what they called ditching practice and this was up in Lincolnshire. Just a day out. You had to go. They had a big pool with a half a Lancaster in the middle and you were taken out but you had to get the dinghy out and on and get yourself home. You see what I mean.
DH: Yeah.
FM: Right. We were posted from Sandtoft to Hemswell for the month of April to transfer from Halifaxes to Lancasters. A small transfer. Just the difference for the pilot really and on the 1st of May 1944 we were posted to Wickenby.
DH: So can I ask with your job as a wireless operator what was different going from the Halifax in to the Lancaster for you? Was there any difference?
FM: Nothing on those two. Different coming from the Wellington because it was a different radio. But no my job was basically the same. Very little radio, and mainly standing in the astrodome as an extra set of eyes but I’ll come to that when it comes to operational flying. Right. On the 10th of May, on the 11th of May we were on just Lancasters locally. Further training. But on the 19th of May we had our first operation but to the marshalling yards at Orleans. Orleans south of Paris. Total time there and back five hours and fifteen minutes. Right. We then had to prepare for the next one by an air test. The next operation which was on the 24th of May which was the marshalling yards at Aachen right on the border. Five hours and five minutes. Now, I don’t want to go through these individually. I shall want to just pick out those that matter. We went to Aachen again. We went to marshalling yards. These marshalling yards were so important because it was coming up to D-Day. We didn’t know that. But the Germans were, their marshalling yards were bombed ruthlessly. The next one is a marshalling yard as well.
DH: Can you explain what a marshalling yard is please?
FM: Well [laughs] I thought you’d know that.
DH: No. No.
FM: A railway. Well, they’ve got a big railway. When you marshall all your equipment it’s a marshalling yard.
DH: Right.
FM: You know. It’s the same in this country. We got in to early June and we were on such things as heavy gun batteries on the coast. Railway junction again, and marshalling yards again. You can see the picture. We’re averaging the 5th of June, 7th of June, 10th of June, 12th of June. We were averaging one almost every other day and then [pause] that’s right. I’d passed it over without thinking how I got the Legion of Honour because on the 5th of June and the 6th of June was D-Day and in those twenty four hours we did two operations which was a thing unknown. To do two in twenty four hours. One was to the north of the coast, and one was to the south. And I’m talking about the German coastal batteries and we bombed them north and south. The south one we did first. You’ve heard a lot lately of these emigrant towns called, one was called Sangatte. Well, that’s where we, that was a bombing because Sangatte then was a big German coastal battery. So we did Sangatte and within a matter of no time at all we were off again, and this time we did the bottom ones near [pause] near, well I can’t think what the big town is on the corner. Anyway, that doesn’t matter. It was one of the southern ones, and doing those two on D-Day was the reason for the French had fixed that anybody operating on D-Day would get this medal. So, came to the last trip that I did was on the 12th of June. Again, marshalling yards and then I was transferred to the Polish squadron with a week’s leave in between. Got back. Got to the Polish squadron 17th of June. We, they didn’t waste any time. We air tested on the 17th of June morning and went on operations in the evening on the 17th of June. So we then go to several operations with 300 Squadron in June. I’ve got 24th, 25th, 29th and 30th. On the 30th, the last one was a daylight. Marshalling yards in the daylight God knows why. I can’t think of why but in fact the next one, the 12th of July, by now I must have gone on leave then. You had a leave generally every so many months because I have a blank space between the 30th of June and the 12th of July. On the 12th of July we started operations. Now were on longer distance ones. This one is nine hours and eight months. This one which I just wanted to describe is the most dangerous one we did. It was to a marshalling yard in the south of France, almost on the Swiss border at a place called Revigny, and when we got there it was ten tenths cloud. You were flying at about ten thousand feet in beautiful sunshine with a blanket of cloud right over the target. Couldn’t see anything. The Master Bomber, I don’t know whether you understand Master Bombers, the person who is there controlling. The master bomber said, ‘I can’t mark the target.’ And he recommends go home. You know, abandon. Abandon the exercise. And I can remember my skipper saying, only to us, ‘Look lads. We didn’t fly all this way to take our bombs home.’ He said, ‘I’m going to try to go through the clouds and see what happens.’ So then came the most scary time of slowly, slowly descending through cloud, and could see nothing. The navigator had taken the distance. No. Yeah. No, the direction that we were travelling so that we could reverse and go back and kept on going through this cloud to Revigny. Anyway, we came out into sunshine. Or night. It wasn’t sunshine. It was moonlight really. At four thousand feet. The skipper said, ‘Right lads. Now, we can reverse along so that we go back the way we come until we find these marshalling yards.’ And so the bomb aimer was the important one because he was lying in his turret in the bottom and he could see, and he right up, ‘Coming up marshalling yards.’ Right. So skipper said, ‘Right. Prepare for bombing run.’ And we had a very quick bombing run. Not the usual four minutes because he wanted to get the bombs away whilst we were over the marshalling yards, and so we bombed. We luckily we had time to close the bomb doors when a four engined plane which we could only describe as a four engine plane, couldn’t say it was a Lancaster or a Halifax came right underneath the clouds straight down underneath us, all four engines ablaze. An absolute, you know, a roman candle and either it exploded or it crash landed and exploded but it blew us up on our backsides. And I can remember skipper who never swore saying, ‘Oh Christ.’ And we seemed to be all over the place, and he was desperately trying to correct. Anyway, at two thousand feet he corrected, and we were back on an even keel so he said, ‘Lads, I’m going to stick these throttles right through, and we’re going to get home quickly.’ Now, when we got home we had to report to the intelligence. Why? Two things. A — the skipper had disobeyed an order to abandon to go home. B — he pressed on and bombed the target. A — he was going to be court martialled. B — he was going to get a medal. He got the medal. So he got the DFC, quite rightly. Then we carried on several quite long trips. Stuttgart. We went twice to Stuttgart and that wasn’t very nice.
DH: Can you explain why it wasn’t very nice? What mainly —
FM: Because you’re going to go through the Ruhr first of all. You’re on the chance of night fighters for such a long distance before you even get to the target because it’s an eight hour trip. Four hours each way. Do you see what I mean? You’re under, you’re in a, their well armed area, and to do it twice in oh hell, twice in four days. Yes. 24th and 28th. I can remember one little thing. On the way home on the second trip I said to the, through the, ‘Skipper, permission to speak.’ You weren’t allowed to talk, you know. ‘Permission to speak.’ ‘Yes, wireless operator.’ ‘Will you all wish me a happy birthday? It’s my birthday today.’ Because it was now, we took off on the 28th of July and on the way home it was the 29th of July.
DH: And did they?
FM: We did that night. Then there were several trips, and then came the period at the end of August. We had already now done [pause] we’d now done twenty six. And the skipper, and now the bomb aimer had also been made a [pause] a what do you call it? You know, we were still sergeants and he, yeah. You know what I mean. Anyway, the skipper called us together and he said, ‘I’ve had,’ because he said, ‘I’m a senior crew,’ he said, ‘I’ve got the ears of Bill Misselbrook — ’ our squadron commander that at the end of August the wing is being disbanded because the Poles have now got sufficient trained people to take over the wing completely. Now — ’ he said, ‘We’ve got four trips to do.’ And he said, ‘I would like to think that we could get them done without us being posted again to some other squadron, you know and have to start all over again.’ So, he said, ‘I’ve got to get your agreement that if you agree I’ll see Bill Misselbrook and say, ‘We volunteer for every trip that’s going.’ And he said, he must have agreed and from the 25th of August to the 31st of August we did four operations, and one of those was the biggest we’d ever done and it was at, it was up to a place in the Baltic called Stettin. Or it was called Stettin then and there was a Nazi naval base there and somehow Stalin had asked for us to bomb it. I don’t know how. You can get these funny things that go on. So we did Stettin as our twenty ninth trip and again on the way home he said, break the rules, he said, ‘I’m not going to stooge back under the rules of the speed that you can do safeguarding the engines,’ he said. ‘They can only shoot me.’ So it was boof, and we came home and the funny words, we landed and I can remember the words coming over the, over from the ground radio lady. She said, ‘U-Uncle. U-Uncle have you completed your mission?’ Because we were fifteen minutes before time getting home. Whereas the others took fifteen minutes longer obeying we’d, anyway that was another story. And then we did a daylight raid on the 31st of August and at the end of that I have a note signed by the station commander, and the squadron commander, “You’re tour is completed.” And so that in affect ends the chapter of my time doing bombing raids. Can you —
DH: Do you want to pause?
FM: Well, do you want any further more?
DH: I’ve got some questions if that’s ok.
FM: Because I mean going on, you can go on forever. I’ve got —
DH: Yeah, no, I’ve got some questions if that’s ok.
FM: Otherwise, I can go on so long with —
DH: No. That’s fine. On an op what would your job entail because it took you five hours, eight hours? So what would you do during your time?
FM: Your main job that you are trained to do for the, for the crew is that you take a message in code from Bomber Command Headquarters at oh, they’re active then. Not the headquarters now. They’re active headquarters every fifteen minutes. Every fifteen minutes they send out a message. It may be status quo. It may be they’d got a change of wind direction, change of wind speed, a change of anything, but every fifteen minutes the wireless operator takes a message and passes it on to the navigator.
DH: Right.
FM: In between, each skipper may want to use him in a different way but most want to use him as a lookout, standing up under the astrodome and helping to spy night fighters.
DH: Right.
FM: And the bit, the important thing he does on a bombing run, when you can imagine there’s a mass of aircraft coming through to bomb on the same you suddenly see one appearing above you and immediately you tell the skipper. Because what you don’t want to do is be bombed by one above. So you’re first of all a wireless operator and second of all you’re a lookout.
DH: So you kept busy.
FM: Yes.
DH: You mentioned before we started the interview, you talked about the Polish squadron. You talked about the make up of the Commonwealth crew.
FM: Yes.
DH: Can you explain that please?
FM: No, when a Commonwealth was pure luck and they had to use the name Commonwealth because they didn’t want to insult like for instance our navigator was a Canadian. My friend that I had there who’d trained could still be alive. The last time I heard of him he was in a wheelchair but his navigator was the most unusual thing. He was a Yank. But he was a Yank who had wanted to get into the war, and so he volunteered from America to join the Canadian Air Force, and from the Canadian Air Force he got, so there’s another one. So if you said it’s an English crew, or a British crew you could be offending, so it was called a Commonwealth.
DH: Right near the start of the interview you talked about your training and everything and you were saying that you got married.
FM: Yeah.
DH: Before we started the interview you said briefly about your feelings about getting married and did you do the right thing at the right age and that. Can you, can you talk about that again please?
FM: That came after though, dear. I don’t know whether it’s worth talking about. I mean, I didn’t [pause] how, how can you say that in effect during your period of the war until, until the later time that when she was allowed to come and live close to because I was no longer on operations but in those early days every leave was like a honeymoon. You got, you know you and to be honest with you we, we reached demob without ever realising what married life was, and then by then we got a baby on the way, very difficult to put it in to words. I just felt that she was too young. She never complained, but at eighteen.
DH: Yeah.
FM: But as I said marriage went on for sixty one years and we got a letter from the Queen here so that couldn’t have been too bad.
DH: Oh no.
FM: It was only in my own mind that. Yeah. Yes.
DH: Right at the start you were saying that you got the call up papers but you were in a Reserved Occupation.
FM: That’s right.
DH: So were you allowed to ignore those call up papers if you were in a Reserved Occupation?
FM: Oh yeah. Only, only as a volunteer.
DH: Right.
FM: Only, and if you were accepted you could have been a volunteer in a far more important Reserved Occupation for some reason and be turned down. You could have been in a, some kind of laboratory somewhere and what have you. But the rule was you, if you, if you, you had to volunteer and you had to be accepted.
DH: Right.
FM: And my Reserved Occupation was really only agricultural machinery. I know it was helping to keep the farmers going but it wasn’t of grade one importance.
DH: You said at the, near the start again that you went for your initial training. You said you went for training and the indoctrination. What did you mean by indoctrination?
FM: I think I can explain that. A big word for a little thing.
DH: Yeah.
FM: 16th of June 1943 [pause] That’s right. I hadn’t started. I hadn’t got to the [pause] Yeah. The first introduction to an aeroplane we [pause] now, can you edit this if you —
DH: Yes. Yes. It can be edited.
FM: The important thing was to try and make you sick on the basis that once you’d been sick you were never likely to be sick again. But if you persisted in being sick you would get discharged from aircrew because you couldn’t be sick.
DH: Right.
FM: You just couldn’t be. Now, that was the indoctrination that I, and it, on the 16th of June ’43, I went twice in one hour on a Dominie with seven, six others and we marched to the aircraft and as we marched they gave us each a bucket. Now, that was before we got to the aircraft they gave us a bucket. When we got inside they had purposely not cleaned it up and I think half of them were sick before we got off the ground. But then he was an experienced pilot and he could hedgehop. You were only up and hour but believe me we were all terribly sick. Is that sufficient indoctrination?
DH: Yeah.
FM: If you see what I mean.
DH: Yeah. Yeah.
FM: If you followed on, and I had four but the first two were only experience. The second two I had to do two message taking. That was my initial contact with the wireless.
DH: So I take it you stopped being sick.
FM: I stopped being, I was only sick once. It’s a terrible feeling and you walk out, stagger out of this aircraft and they say, they march you out, two march. ‘You now go and clean your bucket in the toilets.’ It’s not a nice story, but that was the indoctrination. It had, they could not have people who were going to be sick passed as aircrew. It could not be allowed, and so they had that method to making you sick and giving you four chances really.
DH: Yeah.
FM: I can only, I can’t honestly tell you if they all failed. All four. All I know is I was only sick once [pause] The crew, or most of them.
DH: Which one are you?
FM: None, I took it, I took the photograph as it happened. I didn’t know at the time, you know.
DH: Yeah.
FM: That I was going to take a photograph of the others. The skipper of course is in the middle. The one who looks a little bit elderly.
DH: All so young.
FM: Yes, all so young.
DH: So young. Can you tell me when you were actually on an op did you get a chance to get scared? Were you so busy that you couldn’t get scared?
FM: You were scared all the while. But you were a part of a crew and you got your courage from them, and they in turn got their courage from you. You were a crew. To say you weren’t scared would be a lie. Many’s the time I hung tight to the [pause] especially on, when you get a bad take off and you don’t get off the ground at all due to weather conditions but that’s another story. You can’t. You can’t. Some get all the stories you need to get your memory, you know. But scared, yes. We were scared. We were scared. Especially when you were flying over the Ruhr and the ack ack was almost bouncing off the bottom of your aircraft. You could hear the crackle of it. Yes. Yes. Anything else?
DH: I don’t think so.
FM: I think I’ve been pretty thorough.
DH: You have. You have.
FM: I, as I said I had two further RAF lives after that but I don’t want to go into them all.
DH: No. No. After, so after VJ Day how, how did, what affect did the war have on you do you think?
FM: None at all.
DH: No.
FM: We were still going on targets. The fact that they were targets of a different lot, because the one lot was being prepared for VE day and the second lot afterwards. No. The only thing, you know, how can I put it? When we finished we didn’t know that we weren’t going to be called up for a second tour and would have done if it hadn’t been for the Americans dropping the atom bomb. If that hadn’t have happened after six months or more of it we would have been called back again.
DH: So, after you finished your tour how did the RAF occupy you?
FM: Well, that’s another life. I could go on then about a whole year flying down near here, and then a third tour. A third life when I managed to get appointed to the Test Pilot’s School and that’s where I finished.
DH: Are you able to tell me about the Test Pilot’s School?
FM: Yes. It’s very interesting. We’ll forget the next bit. That was a year literally at South Cerney just outside Gloucester where I was flying with advanced, advanced trainee pilots when they sent, and it was a two engined aircraft, an Oxford when they sent them out to do night trips. They were not allowed to go without a wireless operator because the wireless operator could get them home by getting directions. So that was literally a year. And then there was a message on the notice board, “Volunteers wanted for the Number 4 Empire Test Pilot’s School,” which was being transferred from Farnborough to [pause] I can’t think of the name now. Anyway, I’ve got it in here. It begins with a C. Yeah, that appears, Neville Duke. I flew with him once. Empire Test Pilot’s School. What am I trying to tell you?
DH: You transferred from Farnborough to —
FM: Right. No. They were transferred. I was still at the Advanced Flying Unit until the end of October ’45.
DH: Right.
FM: So, I’d been there a little over a year and they wanted volunteers. Wireless operators who would go to just a quick training school to teach them how to help a pilot flying on his own on a four engine aircraft. You’ll appreciate that if being able to handle all the throttles, being able to close down one or more engines, jobs like that we were taught and then we were sent off to this school. And when we got there, there was nothing there and the station commander called. He said, ‘Your warrant officer has just come through Martin so you’re going to be in charge.’ So, he said, ‘You set up this unit. There will be five others,’ he said, ‘We tried to get youngsters who haven’t had the — ’ he called it luck, ‘The luck to have a bombing life because they came in too late.’ So he said, ‘They’re raw youngsters most of them but,’ he said, ‘There is one senior man as well as you.’ And so we set up this. They gave us an office. Oh anyway, we set it up and eventually it was got going but it was months. A long, I don’t, I can’t remember why but anyway it was January’46 before we actually flew when they were ready as well. And we flew from this Empire Test Pilots School. From Cranfield. Couldn’t remember it. Cranfield, which is north of, north of Bedford. Anyway, we started flying there in January ’46 and we did very little flying because they didn’t, they weren’t always flying four engines. They only needed you when they were. But, you know you did some interesting small jobs with them. And then came my moment of, there came a time in May ’46 when I think we’d had a couple of these six taken ill with something, flu or something and suddenly we, we had to do a lot more because I got a book here when I’d flew four times on the 6th of May, five times on the 7th May, twice on the 8th of May, five times on the 9th of May. I don’t want to go on but you can see I was doing a lot then and during that time, you’ve never heard of Duke have you?
DH: No.
FM: Neville Duke.
DH: No. I haven’t.
FM: Well, he became, later on he became a test pilot and he became holder of the speed record and I, and I just flew with him once for forty five minutes. N. Fifty minutes. So that’s my fifty minutes of fame, and carried on there still flying and the last trip I did before I was demobbed, 8th of July ’46. Without this I couldn’t remember all those things.
DH: No.
FM: That was the best and the luckiest posting I ever had. Suddenly going from training pilots in night cross countries often being more scared than I ever was bombing, and suddenly getting pilots good enough to be test pilots, you know. It was an entirely different experience. And the fact that I’d became a warrant officer which helped a lot. Financially it helped a great deal.
DH: Yeah.
FM: Right. Any more questions?
DH: So after, after you were demobbed what were you going to do?
FM: Well, I was lucky you see. One of the reasons that I could safely volunteer was the company, and I’ve got a letter from the boss, what would I call him? Anyway, he was the boss, guaranteeing any member of the staff anywhere in all of the branches around the, that volunteered for the Services, whichever Service and came back were guaranteed a job. And I’ve got the letter from Hubert Burgess himself and he thanked me very much for my service, services, and understood my feeling of, of volunteering. And so when I got back I went down to the branch in Shrewsbury, had an appointment with a man named Richards who I worked for. He’d, he’d been too old, you know to go in. Anyway, he’d be too important to have to go in the Services and he said, ‘Yeah. When do you want to start?’ And I said, ‘Well, can you give me a week? I’ve got to find, I’ve got to find lodgings for the wife and, and my daughter.’ And so I think I started work, I think I started work on the 1st of September.
DH: Wow, that’s, that’s quite good, isn’t it? That’s very good.
FM: It was good.
DH: For them to say that.
FM: Because, because this man Richards and I had a very long working relationship and he, he pushed me up until I was eventually, you know in a very good job. So that’s really the story of how lucky we were that we came back. I mean, I can remember one very good high rating head office boy who went, and he went in the Air Force and he came back and he went back to a job and it happened. He kept his promise. Your job was there, and that was a marvellous thing, you know. You didn’t have to worry about your week’s wages did you?
DH: No. That’s quite something.
FM: Another thing he did. This is, this is only for your information because you had to recognise what money was worth. He instructed the wages people to put ten shillings a week in an envelope in the safe in my name.
DH: What? During the war?
FM: All the way, whole time I was through.
DH: No.
FM: For the whole of the time I was through he paid me ten shillings a week for fighting for me country.
DH: Wow.
FM: Believe me when we came out that money set up the furniture for our first place. Now, how many bosses would do that?
DH: Not many.
FM: But that’s actually absolutely true. They say, ‘Oh, ten shillings a week,’ but ten shillings a week then.
DH: Was a lot.
FM: Was a different kettle of fish. And anyway, he didn’t need to give me anything, did he? Guaranteeing me a job was sufficient without paying me ten shillings a week for five years.
DH: Wow, that’s quite —
FM: So you do get good bosses. You do get good bosses. Yes.
DH: Well, can I say thank you. You’ve been absolutely fascinating to listen to.
FM: No. I, I didn’t want to overdo it as I said. There’s the three lives. The second one I told you about flying trainee pilots around the skies over Gloucestershire were not a happy experience and then the Test Pilot’s School which was quite marvellous. Quite marvellous. Although to get in [laughs] this is not for you, I’m just talking to you, you get in, and this test pilot he says, ‘Well, Martin —’ or, yes. Well, yes. Sometimes they know your Christian name but you know there was, you weren’t together long enough. He’d say, ‘Well, I’m doing single engine flying today.’ So he said, ‘You know how to feather.’ That was what I was taught of course. I said, ‘Yes.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘Be careful to feather in the order that I tell you because —’ he said, ‘I’ll have to adjust the balance of the aircraft.’ So you get quite happily tootling along and he says, ‘Feather outboard.’ So you press the button for stop the outboard and the engine dies and it’s just running in in the wind and he’s adjusting. And a little later he says, ‘Feather inboard.’ So you press the inboard button and that so he says, ‘We are now flying on two engines.’ That’s alright. And then he said, ‘Feather inboard,’ or whatever. The one he prefers. He may say that he prefers to feather inboard, or feather outboard of the other two and you do it and suddenly you’re flying or trying to fly a four engine bomber on one engine. It has its own moments. It has its moments. Oh yes. But you trusted them you see. They were skilled, and they had to be able to fly this bomber on one engine without losing height. Just keep it and they would, they passed. Anyway, enough about that.
DH: Which aircraft were they?
FM: Lancasters.
DH: They were Lancasters.
FM: Yes. And the latest model too. The latest Rolls twenty two engines I think. They had all the best to train on they did. Yeah. Anyway, thank you for coming. I don’t want to bore you to tears.
DH: You’re not boring me whatsoever.
FM: I mean, I was one of the lucky ones to have lived through it and to some extent to still have an active memory. I do need this because the dates sometimes run into one.
DH: It would be very difficult to remember all those dates.
FM: Oh yeah. Yes.
DH: Very difficult, one last question.
FM: Yeah.
DH: Have you got any you know, lighter moments. Any funny things that you can remember from your time on operations?
FM: You know, it’s hard to remember a funny thing. I think the funniest thing was not what happened on the day but what happened on the day had a remarkable [pause] how can I put it? Resurgence of life many years later. And I’ll tell you this, I can’t remember which daylight raid it was but the Polish squadron, Polish aircraft my pilot had got friendly with their pilot was in, landed in the next bay, and they were getting out and we were getting out and they had, one of the ground crew was a bit snap happy taking pictures and he came along and we grinned at him and he took the picture and that was it. Never thought anything about it. Now, this is one daylight raid towards the end of the, with my life at Faldingworth with the Poles. Now, how many years later? I would be [pause] Phyl had died so it was one of their anniversaries at Faldingworth and I got an invitation and I had a friend, a golfing friend who was very keen on anything to do with, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I’ll take you. I’d love to.’ He said, ‘I’ll take you willingly.’ I said, ‘Ok.’’ He said, ‘Don’t worry about driving,’ he said. I was still able to drive. I hadn’t reached this stage but it must have been ’87 ’97. Fifteen. It must have been fifteen years ago. An anniversary they had and that we went up and we went first thing and we went in to the village hall which was also now laid out with old photographs and everything to do with the Poles. And the Polish people, or the remnants were there and a lot of them had got tales to tell. And I was walking along here, this lady had got a book and she spoke English. She said, ‘Have a look at my records.’ She said, ‘Do you happen to know my father? He was a Polish pilot in this.’ And I said to her, ‘Apologies,’ I said, ‘We were only there three months. We never got really to know our own lot properly let alone — ’ ‘Oh, I understand.’ She said, ‘Have a look at my pictures.’ And she turned over a page and there was the photograph there that he’d taken what would be the best part of, if he’d taken it in ’44 and this would be in, in ’84. The best part of forty years later. And I squealed. I said, ‘You won’t believe it,’ I said. ‘That’s me.’ ‘Oh,’ she said, reading it. This was the pilot who was a friend. And this ground crew had taken, and it had got to her and she got it and there it was. A photograph of myself and oh, I remember the bomb aimer was there and the rear gunner. Unfortunately, the skipper hadn’t got out of the aircraft because we were only disembarking, you know.
DH: Yeah.
FM: But I can remember squealing. Then I called my friend, ‘Brian. Brian come and have a look at this.’ So he came along and I said, ‘Look at that.’ ‘Bloody hell,’ he said. I said would you believe that you could come to a place and see yourself forty years ago. And that was in effect, you could call that the most happy and unexpected —
DH: Yeah.
FM: Thing to happen. To find that you, your photograph had been taken and been kept in this, her father’s album.
DH: Yeah.
FM: And had got to her. Anyway, yes so that was I think that was a jolly tale. You know what I mean. It was a happy one.
DH: Yeah.
FM: Not a miserable one. A happy one.
DH: Well, thank you so much for talking to me, Keith.
FM: I could tell you one which is dead funny. Unbelievable but still it happened. You wouldn’t know, couldn’t know but during the war only bottled beer was available. There may have been draft beer in small quantities round about Burton on Trent and places like that but I mean normally bottled was the only beer. And the day we finished operations was a daylight raid so like it wasn’t like coming back in the middle of the night and so we all, we were all going to go down to Market Rasen which was only three and a half miles away. The skipper had arranged transport. He’s the boss now. He’s well thought of on the squadron and he arranged transport so we can drink as much as we like. So we go in to this hotel in Market Rasen. I wish I could remember its name but it’s there. We go in to the bar. It’s quite early. Not in to the bar. Went in, oh no we went in to the smoke room. Didn’t mix. We wanted a big room of our own and there’s seven of us sat around this table and the, and the navigator, Frank who came to see me from Canada who, thirty five years later, but he said, ‘The first round’s on me.’ We didn’t argue about a round. But he walked up to the bar and we could hear him. This young girl came and he said, he said, ‘I want fifty six pint bottles of beer please.’ She said [pause], ‘I’m not joking,’ he said, ‘I want fifty six pint bottles of beer.’ And they were all brought around our table. Eight of us, seven of us, supposed to drink eight each. The skipper could drink one. The navigator could manage twelve. I may have managed my eight at a push, but I think that particular order was the biggest individual order for beer I’ve ever heard placed.
DH: Yeah.
FM: Yeah. That was Frank. He was going to buy the first round so he did but there was never a second [laughs] Yes.
DH: Could you tell me the names of the people on that crew?
FM: I can. Very well. Pilot George Davies from Oswestry. Navigator Frank Yate from North Hamilton in, in Ontario. Bomb aimer Freddie [Pittey] from Newbury, trainee, a trainee teacher and went back to become a school teacher. Jock Gilchrist. Jock, obviously mid-upper gunner, Scottish from Ayr. The one, the one we found difficulty keeping in touch with and I don’t know why maybe he got married and moved around was the engineer. I’ll think of his name in a minute. And then the rear gunner was the oldest. Harry [Fay], a cockney from East, East Ham. Harry was the first to die. He had a heart attack and one by one they all dropped off leaving me, yeah. I even kept in touch with the wives. With the widows. The two widows that I mainly, because it was rather amazing when you think of I went to the wedding of the bomb aimer and I went to his silver [pause] Oh, let me think. If he was married in ’46, and I went to his golden wedding, that’s right. That’s right. He was married in ’46. Ninety. Yeah, that’s right. And Phyl was alive of course and at his golden wedding of course we were guests of honour fifty years later. That was one amazing thing. The skipper of course married a New Zealand nurse who then wanted to go home and he didn’t have no interest in his father’s business which was a business that I was in. And when he’d gone and I was living in Oswestry and his mum and dad were still alive in Oswestry, I used to visit them didn’t I? And his dad who used to run this big agricultural, owned it, that George wasn’t interested in because he was a Batchelor of Science in his own right on metallurgy. Anyway, that’s another story. Anyway, his father said to me, ‘Get in touch with your boss and tell him that when I’m ready to retire I want you to buy the business.’ Now, geographically it was perfect. We’d already moved from Oswestry when we bought out a company in Welshpool so one more step to new town was perfect. And it happened. He called me, ‘Come and see me. I want to retire,’ he said, I want to safeguard my staff,’ he said. ‘You get hold of your boss.’ Well I did and of course my boss, the big boss then contacted my boss Ben Richards who’d been with me all the lifetime and we went down and we looked and eventually we bought it. And because of that I was made what you’d call area supervisor, having already taken over Welshpool as well from Oswestry, and the funny thing to think that from that day when George Davis says, ‘You’re from Shropshire.’ ‘Yes.’ ‘I’m a Salopian too. Would you fly with me?’ Comes years later his dad. It’s, you know —
DH: It’s amazing, isn’t it?
FM: It is. You can’t really believe these things happen. Yes. Yes. I’m glad I’ve got a pretty active memory because sometimes I can enjoy going back on a given period. I don’t have to go back on the lot. I can remember doing something that I never thought you’d do in the wartime. Have you heard of mayday?
DH: Of?
FM: Mayday. The word mayday.
DH: I know what the word mayday means. Yeah.
FM: What does it mean?
DH: It’s a call for help.
FM: Right. It’s also something you don’t use unless you’re in —
DH: Trouble.
FM: In trouble. And so I called mayday and I had to explain when we got down why, and this was with these trainee pilots. We were out one night in January and we were in a horrendous snowstorm. He quite rightly had lost his way. I could understand that. We got down to, over a big town at about four thousand feet or was it, sorry four hundred feet, and we could recognise it was Cheltenham. I also knew that we were, had a safe flying height over the Cotswolds of fourteen hundred feet, and we were flying at four hundred feet. So I tapped him on the shoulder and I [pause] ‘Oh yes,’ he said. We climbed up, and then we were lost, you know. We were close to home and yet lost so I called, ‘Mayday. Mayday.’ The answer, ‘Your requirements?’ And I just said, ‘Searchlights.’ And within no time the beams came up. We could see them and we came home. Got home. I got away with them. My reasons for mayday. They accepted it. I don’t know whether he got away with having lost, you know. I don’t know. I can’t remember, but I do remember that. Possibly being the most scary night of the, you don’t call mayday once in a lifetime. Yeah. And then have to say, go in front of the intelligence and tell them why you called mayday. A thing unknown. Mayday. Yes. Yes. A bad thunderstorm in an old fashioned aircraft is pretty terrible you know. I mean you can’t see anything. Not like these modern things where you’re, yes, enough of me. You’ll never get home ‘til tomorrow. You get me on my memories and I’ve got so many. So many.
DH: Well —
FM: I don’t know.
DH: If you wanted to chat another time and give me memories that would be wonderful.
FM: [unclear] Right. My legs get, slowly but surely they’re deteriorating. You’ve seen that medal haven’t you? That’s the —
DH: Let’s have a look.
FM: That’s the Legion d’Honneur.
DH: Oh yes. That’s beautiful isn’t it?
FM: It is.
DH: Beautiful.
FM: Put that there.
DH: Yes.
FM: It’s just something. I don’t know if I’ve got it. It won’t take a second to look. I’ll finish my coffee. So many documents that I’ve got which [pause] Different crew members but I don’t want to show you bits and pieces. I thought I’d got a [pause] There’s the skipper. What you can see of him. Only his head.
DH: Oh, inside the plane.
FM: No. I can’t see there’s anything particular. It’s hard to remember [laughs] I told you we were in civvy billets in Blackpool.
DH: Yes [pause] Ah, which one are you?
FM: Right in the middle, at the back.
DH: Oh right. Oh yes, nuisance.
FM: I’ll get it. I’ll get it.
DH: All right, love. I did get a little one of the two gunners. The rear and the mid-upper together.
FM: Yeah.
DH: I’ve got other photographs somewhere dear but I don’t know where they are.
FM: Ok. What I’ll do is, if we finish —
DH: Yes.
FM: If I finish of the interview now.
DH: Yeah.
FM: And then I’ll explain a few things. Ok. So, thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frederick Joseph Keith Martin
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dawn Hughes
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-03-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AMartinFJK180309
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:41:51 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Keith Martin was working for an agricultural machinery merchants in Shrewsbury when the war started. This was classed as a reserved occupation but when he was nearly 20, he decided to volunteer for the Royal Air Force in April 1942 and was selected to be a wireless operator/air gunner. Initial training took place in Blackpool, followed by further training at RAF Yatesbury, RAF Ternhill, RAF Calveley. Promoted to sergeant he was then posted to 18 Initial Training Wing at RAF Bridgnorth to complete his wireless operator training. Flying training took place at RAF West Freugh and in October 1943 he was posted to an operational training unit at RAF Hixon flying Wellingtons. It was there that Keith was formed in to an aircrew. In December 1943 Keith’s crew flew their first operation, as part of their training, which was leaflet dropping over Belgium. January 1944 saw a posting to a heavy conversion unit at RAF Sandtoft to fly Halifaxes. In April their aircraft had an engine failure on take-off, resulting in a crash landing which wrote it off but injured no-one. He transferred to Lancasters at RAF Hemswell and was then posted to RAF Wickenby. From May he was in an operational squadron. Keith describes the many operations that he carried out, including an operation during which an aircraft below his exploded, and caused his aircraft to go out of control until the pilot recovered control at 2000 feet. In June 1944 he was posted to 300 Squadron. By August his crew had flown 26 operations. On completing his tour, Keith went on to spend a year at the advanced flying unit at RAF South Cerney before volunteering for the Empire Test Pilots’ School at RAF Cranfield. He was finally demobbed in 1946 returning to his pre-war employer, who had kept his job available.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Nick Cornwell-Smith
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Cheshire
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lancashire
England--Shropshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Wiltshire
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
England--Blackpool
France--Paris
France--Sangatte
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-04-20
1943-05
1943-10
1943-12-30
1944-01
1944-04-06
1944-05-01
1944-06
1944-08-31
1946
1944-07
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
300 Squadron
626 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
crash
crewing up
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
propaganda
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Calveley
RAF Cranfield
RAF Hemswell
RAF Hixon
RAF Sandtoft
RAF South Cerney
RAF Ternhill
RAF West Freugh
RAF Wickenby
RAF Yatesbury
take-off crash
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1103/11562/ARogersLC160822.1.mp3
ad21d284dbbdd015f55a5a200970cce9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rogers, Lawrence Clark
L C Rogers
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Lawrence Clark Rogers (1063761, 189969 Royal Air Force). He completed a tour of operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Rogers, LC
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DB: Right. I’m interviewing Lawrence Clark Rogers at xxx in Huddersfield, and it’s the 22nd of August 2016 at 8.30pm and we’re in the interviewee’s home. Lawrence, could you tell me a little bit about your life and how it, how it is with the RAF?
LR: Yes. I think I can. If I can remember I will tell you of course. But schooldays, after schooldays. Well school, I went to school and I wasn’t over keen on school at all, but I decided, at the age of seventeen, that I’d like to — I knew that I would be called up. So, I didn’t want to go in the Navy, I can’t swim, I didn’t want to go in the Army, so I thought, right, I’ll go in the Air Force, so, I went down to the Drill Hall in Huddersfield and volunteered. I told my Father, I told my Mother, who wasn’t at all pleased, but she said she would, alright in the Air Force as long as I didn’t fly, which I promised. And from there on, I went to East Kirby – West Kirby, sorry, near Liverpool, and I was there for the training. I remembered the time when we first joined. When we first entered there, we got a good meal, and then the day after, we were signed in and the sergeant who took us out said, ‘Now, you’ve not got a name. You’ve got a ‘B’ number’. So, we did quite a lot of drill there, on the parade ground, the aircraft engine in the distance was going so all the shouting, this, that and the other. And from there I went to Wigtown in Scotland where I was an instructor. Oh no, sorry, I went first of all because I signed up for a wireless operator when I volunteered. They asked for volunteers, we put our names up, our hands up, and we went to Blackpool for the wireless. Did our drill on the bottom prom, all the holidaymakers on the top prom watching us. And then we went to Yatesbury, which was the station for aircrew and we did the radio wireless training there, and then from there, I got posted to Wigtown. No, I think I got that out of context a little. Wigtown in Scotland, I was there, posted there as an instructor on wireless operation. This went quite normally. It was a nice station. They provided us with a bicycle and this, that and the other, food wasn’t too bad, and we flew in Ansons. And on one trip, which the, it was usually from Wigtown down to Anglesey and back, all the time. Most of the time they sent us up north a bit and we got a recall. It was a bad day and we got a recall and he asked the navigator, pupil navigator where we were, and he didn’t seem to know. So the pilot said, ‘I’ll fly five minutes west and then come down over the sea’. We flew five minutes west, we didn’t come down in the sea. We crashed in the Kingsborough fleet, I think they called it Hibble Hill – the place where we crashed. We were there quite for a while in cloud, probably twenty four hours, something like that, till the clouds broke in the morning and I was flashing, there was aircraft about. I was flashing my aldis lamp and I couldn’t, I couldn’t transmit but I could receive. It had been damaged in the aircraft. If we’d have missed this part where we should have, where we did crash then missed that, we’d have gone nose first into higher mountains just further on. But anyhow, that didn’t happen. The group captain came over in his Tiger Moth and dropped us a big parcel of food which was, I don’t know, a cheese sandwich in — it was supposed to be, I don’t know how thick. Two big slices of bread, it was terrible. Anyhow, later on, after a few hours, they climbed up the, and brought us down. We didn’t get survivor’s leave, I don’t know why, but we didn’t. Anyhow, I was stationed there for two years actually, and we tried our best to get down to, to get on the squadron. Eventually we were sent to OUT, I think it was Chedburgh, and from there, we were posted to 218 Gold Coast Squadron, Woolfox Lodge. I did about eight or nine, about nine operations from there, and then we lost our pilot. He had an accident. Not a flying accident but an accident on the road, and we were transferred to 75 New Zealand squadron. We were approached by a squadron leader, we were given a new pilot, Squadron Leader Rogers, a New Zealand pilot, and he was in charge of, I don’t know, I think it was A group pilot. We got all the dirty jobs, of course. used to pass us, ‘You, light the fire’, and this, that and those things, didn’t want to delegate too much. And we did the rest of the operations there. I did thirty two, if I remember correctly, operations, because I had to do two operations with another pilot who hadn’t got a wireless operator. And on the thirtieth operation of mine, I could have packed in, but the crew wanted me to carry on, and do the, do up to the thirtieth, so I did two more, of course, which I did thirty two. From there, we were posted down to London, to go overseas. They messed us around quite a bit. At first, we were going to sail from there, and then they said we were going to fly from there, I can’t remember the place where we flew from, but we flew from there to Karachi. I was stationed in Karachi for quite a while. There was a, what was the first [pause], what it was? I forget what it was – the first job I was doing, but the second job was when we were posted to Singapore just before the capitulation by the Japanese. We went by landing craft, which was going back to Australia, and we landed in Singapore at roughly, on the same day as the capitulation came up. And I was accommodation officer for one of the forward, I went over in a landing craft that was going back with twenty four drivers and escorts, doing the chapatis on the desk — on the deck and things like that. I met a good friend from Pocklington, I’ve forgotten his name now, oh dear. Anyhow, we were together in India all the time, and I got, I wasn’t there too long actually. We sailed back to England, I don’t remember [pause], if I remember correctly, it was after, after the capitulation by Germany, and after VJ day as well. And whilst I was there in Singapore, it was arranged between Audrey and myself, my late wife, that we should get married, and we came back to Lichfield, and from there, I had two or three different intervals, because I didn’t want to go back to the job where I were, which was a travel agent. But we had two or three interviews, I had two or three different jobs, short jobs, two or three weeks jobs and then I got a job. A choice of jobs between textiles again and engineering, I decided to go in for engineering and I worked at the engineering firm, which was WC Holmes at that time, at Huddersfield, for thirty two years, I think it was, something like that anyhow. And I retired there at sixty four, voluntary redundancy. I’d been trying for redundancy since I was sixty, and at sixty four, I got it. A new director came up, which was very friendly with me, and he called me to the office. He said, ‘Lawrence, do you want to be made redundant?’ I said, ‘Yes please’. He said, ‘You’ll be first on the list tomorrow’, which I was. And since then, I’ve had a great retirement. I still drive at my age of ninety four, I still play bowls for the league, and I play snooker for the league also. And I’ve really enjoyed my retirement. I’ve been retired now thirty years, I think it is, and I’ve got four grandchildren and seven great-grandchildren and we’re quite a happy family. I, regretfully, I wanted my eldest son Graham, to go down and get, and go inside the Lancaster. My wife went with me down to Hendon years ago, and they allowed us to go in. I wrote to the people first, and they said, ‘Just make yourself known’, but when I went down to Hendon again, they wouldn’t. They wouldn’t let us go in the aircraft at all, but they did put a platform up, so that we could go up and look in through the pilot’s window, but we couldn’t see where the wireless operator was, of course. And just shortly after that, my son got very ill, had a major operation and he died some ten weeks ago, 10th of June this year, and I’ve now got two great-granddaughters that look after me. They do, they really look after me. I have a youngest son who now lives in Wales, I get invited down there, and he comes up here regularly, reasonably regularly anyhow, and we get — he’s a very good son. Just no distinguishing between the two really and I treated them both the same, and that’s about it. I’m still here and there we are.
[recording paused]
There was one incident whilst I was in the Air Force, that I was home on leave and I was on a squadron at the time, and I met my friend at the bus stop, as I was going back off leave. Kenneth Richardson, they called him, and he was, I didn’t know, but he’d joined the RAF, and he joined Bomber Command. And he went out, I don’t know whether it was his first or his second trip, but he never returned, and he’s never been found as far as I know, anyhow, and, you know, I would have liked to known what, you know, what happened to him. But it’s a long time ago and there we are.
[recording paused]
Yes, and another addition, that I was just looking at the photograph of my crew in front of the Lancaster. There was George, who was a Cockney from London, he was the oldest man of the crew. Next was Ron Brown, who was the flight engineer, and a very good friend of mine. Even after the war, we used to see each other and visit each other. Then there was Brian, who came from Birmingham. He was, well he was the joker of the family, I mean, at one time, we were in the station going back off leave, and he went up to this woman and asked her how she got her fur coat, but that’s beside the point. Harry was the pilot, Harry Sheldon, he lived in Nottingham. He was a nice fella. He moved to Canada and he’s since died, you know. Ron has also passed away, next one along is myself, and then there was Tom, Tom Brook, Tom [pause], I’ve forgotten his last name. He was the rear gunner and I don’t know roughly where, I’ve not heard from him. And then Don was the navigator, Don Whittaker. He has since passed away, of course, but he was a very nice fella. He lived very close to me and I used to visit, and during the war, he ran a small car, actually, and he used to pick me up at Stockport and take me down. We used to sleep halfway, and about 5 o’clock in the morning, there used to be a knock on the window. It was the land girls who went on duty, and they used to wake us up, to, so we could continue the journey. And that’s about it. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lawrence Clark Rogers
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Denise Boneham
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ARogersLC160822
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:14:31 audio recording
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Singapore
England--Rutland
England--Suffolk
England--Staffordshire
England--Lichfield
Pakistan
Pakistan--Karachi
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
Description
An account of the resource
Lawrence Rogers joined the Royal Air Force at 17, and trained to become a wireless operator. He served with 218 Squadron at RAF Woolfox Lodge and then with 75 Squadron, flying in both Ansons and Lancasters, He eventually completed 32 operations with Bomber Command. Lawrence tells of being stationed in Karachi and Singapore, the latter just before the Japanese capitulation. Reminisces of coming back to Lichfield for his wedding. Lawrence tells of his retirement from WC Holmes Engineering Firm - playing bowls, snooker and still driving at the age of 94. He talks about his family and his visit to Royal Air Force Museum at Hendon with his wife and son.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
Language
A language of the resource
eng
218 Squadron
75 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing
crash
Lancaster
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Woolfox Lodge
training
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1112/11602/ASaundersR160616.2.mp3
b3356a853701a750fdd3e8f084c2f486
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Saunders, Ron
Ronald Saunders
R Saunders
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Sergeant Ron Saunders (1923 - 2018, 1803753 Royal Air Force) and his obituary and memoir. He flew operations with 114 and 55 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Saunders, R
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DB: Todays’ recording is with Mr. Ron Saunders of 114 Squadron in Stowmarket on the 16th of June at 2pm.
RS: This is really just a brief history of my life which started off being born in a place called Ewhurst on the borders of Kent and Suffolk, Kent and I beg your pardon, Sussex and Kent, maybe you’ll correct that, it’s Sussex and Kent, not too far away from Bodiam Castle. At that time my father was working for the Gypsum Mines over in Mountfield, Sussex and the journey was a bit too much so they, eventually they built two houses in another village called Netherfield, to which we eventually moved. However for my short time there I don’t remember going to school at all unless it was at the end of my seventh year which was when I moved with them I think, but the only notable thing I can remember is that one evening, after I’d gone to bed, being woken up to look out of the window and all I could see was a black mass with lights on which turned out to be the airship 101 on its fateful voyage where it crashed in France. Apart from that, as regards an interest, even young of having an interest in the Royal Air Force or airplanes in general. I was always given toys with the someone would just balsa wood which had a notch on and you had a catapult and you just, every time it had the same effect, they all finished up on the ground after half a loop. Then they went on to stronger, elastic bands with propellers, again not very strong, the same result, nothing lasted really long and it ended up on the deck. However, we then moved on to another field [laughs] and there life opened up really to me. I was at the right age, my father was very interested in cricket, he was a captain of the local village team so naturally I was drawn towards him, in that respect, and from then on I never lost my love of cricket. I was also, talking back to R 101, I was perhaps sitting idly not far away from where we lived, one Sunday afternoon, I think it was a Sunday, and I felt some sort of change in the atmosphere, I looked up and there was another airship, this time with a swastika largely emblazoned on the fin or tail and this turn out to be Hindenburg. In both cases I’ve, many years later, sorted out whether I was seeing things, which I wasn’t apparently, and you could tell by the route R 101 took it would have come over where we were in a direct line to Hastings, the other one I think went to Yorkshire. As I said, we moved to this property that the Gypsum Mines who were part of the British Plaster Board had built which four families occupied [coughs] the property that we now occupied was situated, one would say, very nicely because it sat in between two public houses, neither of them very far away, but these were not available to be not only have been young but mum and dad were quite strict chapel which of course I had to attend regularly. But nevertheless the country opened up for me and we could go where we liked, looking for dam chicks nests or plover’s eggs and joining the local haymaking, going up on the hayrick, and laid in the horses and I never lost my love of the country from that point. However on rainy days I was able to go into one of the public houses with the publican’s son and when it was not open to the public and have a game of darts or perhaps shove opening or whatever was available at that time [coughs] I’m trying to do it in short verse.
DB: Yeah, that’s fine, that’s
RS: It gives me a chance to get a thought.
DB: Yeah, if you find it easier, that’s a much better way of doing it.
RS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DB: You’re in charge [laughs]
RS: Yeah. Oh God!
DB: No, don’t worry.
RS: [unclear] either until I bring something up, that’s the trouble.
DB: Got it? [laughs]
RS: [unclear]
DB: Oh, Goodness gracious, I’m glad I didn’t turn up earlier for you.
RS: I don’t know what you would have done actually, left it till tomorrow. But you didn’t think it would be anything like this.
DB: No, I’m sure she didn’t. [unclear] for you while you cough.
RS: [coughs] Yes, I don’t want to cough.
DB: That’s alright, don’t worry. Don’t’ worry, you’re doing really well.
RS: It’s a pity about the cough.
DB: Sorry, [unclear]
RS: You have it? It’s on. Also at the time there were many false alarms and the sirens would go and probably no one would have even hear an aircraft and the manager of the shop was getting a bit fed up with lowering the shutters every time the sirens went and having to put them up again and people in the shop could go below where they kept all the cheese, the eggs and all the meat and all the stuff which ran parallel with the shop as a sort of air raid shelter, eventually though he decided he would open and he put me up on the roof, I volunteered of course, to be a spotter for if there is anything in the area to which I could then warn them and he would just leave the main door open. For warning purposes to the shop below I was, had a bell available at my discretion, to use as and when I thought fit. However, this came to an end when on one day I was watching contrails up in the sky, there didn’t seem to be any risk of any danger to the vicinity when all of a sudden, a bomb hit the Plaza cinema, the front of it, which in a short distance, in a straight line from where I stood, I disappeared down where joined the rest of them underneath, but that was the only bomb which killed the manager. But the manager stopped any future activities up there and not long after that I volunteered for the RAF although I had to continue working for quite a while because there was a [unclear] of aircrew and I volunteered to be a wireless operator air gunner. Eventually I was called up to the Royal Air Force in 1942 in September and we were, went to the usual kitting out place and from there we went on to Blackpool for our initial training, ITW, I suppose it was, here we had a mixture of physical exercises, a bit of general walking about town, listening to Morse both in plain language and in code and once you had reached the required speeds in both of those groups, you eventually were able to pass out for the first stage after about six weeks. You then had to follow on to the radio school that was [unclear] of you, which was number 1 radio school at Yatesbury. Here we had a bit longer, a small discipline [unclear], I don’t know, I was put on a charge twice anyway, I’m not quite sure why, now I will gloss over that but you were surprised you know, once you got onto a charge you had to be very careful not to get another one, or it seemed that to me anyway. I did go on the first parade near the guardroom, I put [unclear] four packs I was a very clever and put a blanket and things in the back, which made it considerably lighter. Turned up on the parade ground, the first thing the corporal did was punch the back of it, I suppose he’d had this happen to him or knew all about it many, many times but I was naïve I thought I was being rather clever. That produced another judge, anyway to escape from that, we eventually passed out and the next move was to Madley, where we were to do air to ground training, communication that is and we had two types of aircraft there, initially six of you went up in a, as I said, the remaining part of the course was to confirm the ability to communicate with the ground station from the air. We flew initially with five others plus the instructor taking turns at the radio sets. The aircraft was a DH Dominie. Next was carried out the same exercise, only this time it was just yourself and the pilot. The aircraft was a Proctor. To our collective surprise we were given seven days embarkation leave at the end of the course having passed successfully. In due course we were called up and on 13th November 1943 I was sailing on a P&O line, now a troop ship. My accommodation was situated on the lowest deck, namely H deck and was consisting of a mattress and a small base alongside for kit bag and clothing. We were soon on the move and we were joining up with a convoy, twelve other ships plus escort. Sea legs were required across the Bay of Biscay and beyond but eventually past Gibraltar and entered the calmer waters of the Mediterranean. So far the trip had been uneventful but it then changed when two sustained air attacks took place on the convoy. Being down on H deck, we can only imagine what’s happening and, happening above and listen very intently to everything, there was a barrage of gunfire, bomb explosions, bomb explosions produce sort of shock waves which came with a thud against the hull. I must admit that nearly every eye on the deck was focused on the one set of stairs which criss-crossed up to the various decks and that was our only outlet from where we were. Many years later I obtained a copy of the voyage report, which part of the captain statement contained the following: “the convoy was attacked twice off the North African coast, the first by thirty enemy planes using glide bombs and tornadoes and the second by twelve dive bombers. The Ryan seemed to be the target of the second attack and then four near misses, one within ten feet of the ship which splashed the boardside and covered the deck with oil. The ship was severely shaken and the pumps and the engine were in stop for a few moments”. We were down there, everybody was looking at these stairs, cause it just crisscrossed like that once. [coughs] One finished on one side of the boat, the other [coughs]
DB: [unclear] A little bit of information right [unclear] be great.
RS: Yeah. There were no further allowance and after fourteen days at sea since leaving England the Ryan entered the Suez Canal, passing the statue of Ferdinand de Lesseps, to dock a short distance away. Up early in the next day and packed and a short walk across to a station railway side. NAAFI tea and catering available before boarding the train to take us to Cairo. The journey from Port Said was long and tiring mainly due to the hard wooden seats and it was dark when we arrived at Cairo where we were bundled into waiting lorries which took us to a transit camp. It was tented accommodation, six to a tent just a pile [unclear] for sleeping. We were there for six weeks, waiting for number one course to move out of the newly opened gunnery school before I was able to pay a visit to the visit [unclear] and after that we moved hopefully to be our last part of the training. We were now heading for 13 air gunnery school at El Ballah in Egypt, it was tented accommodation recently allocated by number 1 course, and in which we settled in for another six weeks training. This comprised mostly of courses of ground faring and then airborne exercises with accompanying an aircraft towing the droves to the target in order to demonstrate air gunnery skills, we all had more than one trainee on board, coloured tipped bullets were allocated, so that individual markings on the drove could be connected to the individual person having fired them. This gave you the necessary efficiency to survive the course and at the end of it there was a badge, an air gunners badge together with a set of sergeant stripes which were automatically given at the end of training for aircrew duties. We were then transferred back to the suburb of Cairo at Heliopolis at number 5 ME. This time the accommodation was in the pre-war palace hotel, although all the furniture had been removed it was a pleasant change from tents. Eventually my name appeared on the notice board for operational training unit. This transpired to be at number 20 OTU Shandur in the Canal Zone. We travelled by train from Cairo to Port Tewfik and then by lorry to the airfield at Shandur. South Africans were also there undergoing training on Marauders. Before crewing up it was a case of travelling in your own category, training in your own category, I beg your pardon, and this involved flying in Baltimores, tests were carried out in Avro Ansons for gunnery and all went well and then it became forming of crews, which was quite a casual affair. I was walking along with a [unclear] when the pilot invited me to join him, which I accepted, meeting up with his navigator and upper gunner later. We got on well together and on nineteen occasions we did some training exercises before completing the course. We then departed for a week’s leave at Alexandria, we both [unclear] a house I think therefore and reporting back to 22 PTC transit camp in Cairo. While we were at Alexandria, my pal and myself found ourselves travelling and having a look around and in doing so we visited a street well known for the attention given to you by ladies, however it was fairly dark when we arrived and after hearing some whispering and shuffling about behind a barricade of [unclear] we decided it was best that we took to our heels. On one of the occasions when myself and my pal Jimmy visited the centre of Cairo as we did on several occasions after dodging the bootblacks as we called them, who’d threaten you with the polish if you didn’t have your shoes clean, we were walking along and hearing this terrific crescendo of noise, cavalcade of motorcycles came by as in v-shaped formation and behind them was travelling along was the young king Farouk and we had a good view as he motored on. After Alexandria, after a few more days at our posting to 22 PTC we found ourselves on our way to Naples. One morning we left for [unclear] airfield nearby, we were put into some waiting Dakota, on the way we stopped at, sorry, Benina and Tunis before alighting at Capodichino airfield at Naples. Things were very different. There was a general shortage, the children were ragged and starving and we settled down in a Villa Drusi I believe it was called. In the morning as a [unclear] formed outside of folk, young and old, waiting for anything that we left over from our meals. This was not uncommon and our pilots, at one stage where we had to be careful of thieves, he had his complete kit bag stolen while he was asleep. And the Americans would often have armed guards on the back of food vehicles. One of the [unclear] who gathered at the gates every morning offered to do my laundry, this was accepted and it always came back and she’d be rewarded with a bit of bread or something as well. She was very grateful. Not long after this, a squadron CO came to interview the pilot and the result of which were we were posted to 114 Squadron flying Boston aircraft, a medium bomber, American, operating at night. Not long after we packed our kit and set off to join the squadron, which was situated at that time at the American fifth army front at Tarquinia. Here we found the squadron under canvas and the first task was to surrect tents for ourselves in a field of thistles, which even [unclear] through the socks which we were wearing. An interview of the CO followed who explained the squadron’s duties and one morning I was roughly awaken and sent off with the advance party to a field which was at Cecina, being much nearer to the front line and the realities of war. With a lorry and ten days rations we slept under some trees which were mostly taped off as dangerous, in fact there was one who trod on a butterfly bomb and one of the ground staff later on, we also found ourselves that we could go down onto the beach for a swim, I more or less learned to swim there, however it was rather puzzling when after a few days we’ve been doing this the Americans turned up and starting having metal detectors along the beach, which we’ve been using. Anyway all was well. I don’t know how bad the danger was. 114 Squadron was a part of 232 Wing which contained also the Squadrons numbers 13, 18 and 55 and they were occupied in similar duties. We converted to Bostons, which took nearly a month due to heavy rain. In particular one heavy storm, at all four Squadron crews, ground and air, walking along the runway to dislodge stones had been thrown up by the rain, we carried out our first sortie from here which was bombing the marshalling yards at Medina, followed by a short recce. The main thrust of the Italian campaign was taking place on the Eastern side of the country where the Eighth Army were engaged in heavy fighting against Field Marshall Kesselring’s forces. We were set out various strategic defence lines as they retreated northwards. Once again we did another move, the crews were split up, the pilots flying the aircraft [unclear], our game was on the road party, the convoys several vehicles, sleeping the first night in the [unclear] post office and the second was Assisi. We reached Chiaravalle where we were to stay pending the completion of an airfield at Falconara. Before we left Cecina, we were visited firstly by Sir Winston Churchill, followed soon after by his Majesty King George the Sixth. Both were met by the American general Mark Clark, Commander of the American army. King George the Sixth stopped to walk along our lines but Winston Churchill seemed to disappear almost straight away. Chiaravalle was a very small town and the building we occupied was, used to house all of us was having a basement and a small yard for the cook house. After a few weeks with Christmas 1944 approaching we moved five miles to an empty building in Falconara close to the airfield in which we resumed our flying duties. We did our best to make ourselves comfortable and keep out of the cold. The first thing was to put in a fire and this was helped by someone from the MT section. It was ok when the wind was in the right direction otherwise we were smoked out. One item we were lacking was a wireless, so myself and a pilot from the same squadron hitchhiked around the area initially without any luck until we came across an army camp which was New Zealanders who were on the move home and they had a home-made wooden box set who reluctantly parted with it. Having a wireless was a great assistance to us and greatly helped as well by the member from the MT unit managed to fix us out with the necessary power. Our crew took some leave from here going back to Rome and while we were away we, the squadron lost a third of its crew, including two COs, which rather made us feel a bit subdued having not taken part in what obviously was a bad time. With the arrival of March, we heard that we would have moved nearer to the frontline and the next day the field we would have occupied was at Forli. Before we left Falconara, we carried out our twentieth sortie, which was a bit different aircrew, we were briefed directly on the airfield of Vicenza. The difference was taking off in daylight when previously we had flown only at night. Was a strange feeling to be so visible, dusk soon fell and nothing was seen but we were receiving some interest for the ground so we bombed the runway and went for home. For memory, the attention we were receiving from the ground was basically only one gun but it was getting very, very accurate firing arm piercing stuff which coloured green as you know.
DB: [unclear]
RS: Ok. With the rest of 232 Wing we arrived at Forli airfield were allocated with billet in an empty house on the main street, we set up our beds into red tents and helped with the mess necessary to be erected in the back yard. We were very busy there in support of the Eighth Army who had started a new offensive, many of our sorties were under radar control, one particular area where the army was held up near Argenta at 3 am on the 19th of April, forty-five crews took off at two minute intervals to assist for the breakthrough. For aircrew it was our fiftieth sortie. The area was a mass of smoke and the artillery were firing red marker shells to give the air crews and bomb aimers some idea of where they should be aiming their missiles, something like that. Oh, we are doing well now. Of course, did I take it off? Out of line of further twelve sorties, attacking ferry points, bridges, rivers and any moment generally we were then stood down. The day came and everyone joined in the celebrations which is very low key, as a crew we had been pleased, we were very pleased to be still around and thankful to the ground crews that had looked after us and in various aircraft. With regards to the ground crew, we often had a chat and a cigarette before the take-off and their reply on the V-E-Day was that the party of them we would a large floodlight down the street to a camp nearby parking outside the main gate they treated the Germans to a few patriotic songs. After weeks watching the German prisoners come through, the news came that we would have moved further north to an airfield in Aviano. Soon afterwards we flew in formation with the CO. And so ended the nights appearing into the darkness, throwing out flares by hand, dropping propaganda leaflets, and surrender invitations to the Italians. At Aviano, this was a large airfield situated on the Lombardy plains, well away from the road at the foot of the lower Alps. Our first job was to find a decent tent, wasn’t it always? And settle in for flying formation training. This was because the CO wanted to do a flypast over [unclear] in Southern France, obviously had some connection there, apart from that we did the old country exercise. This time Marshall Tito was making his demands over Trieste which resulted in the aircraft shuttling to and fro to bring the bomb ship, bomb dump up to the required level that may be needed. We visited a nearby village where local girls were taking care of her laundry and where local partisans were showing themselves probably more than they had done before now that it was at peace, theoretically and they were distinguished by coloured neckerchiefs. They were still patrolling in the mountains and at once I was invited to join them but I declined. On one visit we attended several of us a local dance and I was dancing around with a young lady who had a headscarf on and I eventually noticed that under the headscarf there was very little hair. To this end, I was apparently receiving the attention of one of the local young men and one of my pals tipped me off between dances which decided me that we would probably leave and we went back to the lorry and in due course got back. There was quite a bit of head shaving I believe going on in the village of the girls that had associated themselves with the Germans while they were there. One evening in the camp we were alarmed by a large explosion and columns of smoke came up from the bomb dump. German incendiary bombs had been set off by an Italian civilian who was severely injured. There were no camp railings, it was barely an open altogether so they were able to just wander about, though not many of them bothered to do so but he did apparently and the [unclear] dump for personal bombs was swiftly removed by many hands. And the same night we had a severe storm which hit the camp, leaving tents in a bit of a mess to say the least. I woke up looking at the heavens and feeling rain on my face. Sorry [unclear]. A few weeks later the CO pulled us all together to say that the squadron was now being posted to Aden and the other three squadrons were going to Greece. We thought then as we got the worst deal before of us. I was on leave when the main party left to go by sea but on my return I was put in charge of a small party and we flew down from Udine to Bari in two Marauders and we met up with others there who were still waiting for a boat. The Winchester Castle arrived at Taranto taking us direct to Aden. We thought we might be going to Egypt but we were right, we had to disembark at Port Said and go back to 22 PTC, we repeated the journey that we had carried out quite some time before. After that we waited for another ship which eventually arrived, I forget the name, which took us down the Red Sea to Aden and we joined up with the rest of the squadron at Khormaksar airfield. The squadron was posted there to releave 61 Squadron which slowly departed. Unfortunately a Wellington bomber belonging to them with eight people on board took off, circled the airfield, established radio contact, set off for Egypt but unfortunately nothing more was ever heard of them. Our crews flying carrying out ten more flights around the area, including one across to Somalia at a place called Hargeisa. On hearing the news that the squadron was to be disbanded and the Mosquitoes would be replacing our [ unclear] Bostons, we were to be split up into various duties in the area. In my case, I was put onto flying control, this included [unclear] the control towers at Khormaksar and shake off satellite airfield four miles further inland and two weeks at Masirah Island. When going into Masirah I travelled in a Dakota, I stopped at Salalah on the way, my only company in the, was a goat. I ended up then after that on the main traffic air control centre in the area at headquarters and then I awaited my clearance to return to England and demobilisation.
DB: Yeah.
RS: Yeah. The SS Alcantara arrived to accomod us for the return home, so at 1700 hours we were told that we had to be on board at 1900 hours, naturally we accomplished this. The boat made a short stop at Naples and then on the afternoon of the 17th of October 1946 we docked at Southampton, two [unclear] away from the Queen Mary. After approximately three years continuous service overseas it was with mixed emotions to see a double, red double decker bus passing along a nearby road. I was demobbed at 1 POC Kirkham Lancs and after that I set off to Hastings having warned my mother in advance. I finished up taking the milk train and arriving at Warrior Square Gardens at Saint Leonards on the train to be awokened up by a lady, grey-haired lady who at first I didn’t immediately see but this was of course my mother having spotted me snoozing away and being in uniform she was very lucky, I might’ve had to go onto Hastings otherwise and woke me up, quite a shock. But it was a lovely feeling.
Us: [unclear] 1952. [laughs]
RS: Returning home I didn’t go back to my job at [unclear] so I was in several others occupied that position before during the war and I finished up in RAC records office which was a place where, if they didn’t know what to find you with from the employment, they would put you up there and you filled a hole, I did nothing and they put me in a room which unfortunately was occupied by a bookie who spent all his time going around this very large building collecting bets. Nobody ever came into the room I did a few letters if I remember, but eventually got away from it and found other employment. Strangely enough this employment was back at the Gypsum Mines which my mother had not wanted me to go to at all, but this time I suppose she thought that I wasn’t qualified to do anything other than going down the mine but this time a friend of mine had given me the whisper that the current job was available, I applied and I got it and I worked there and I was trained by an ex-navy lieutenant who also had been demobbed and spent mostly twelve years there. At that time we were, where were we living, Doris? My wife, I’m just asking a question now cause I forget the answer.
US: Silverhill, I should think.
RS: At Silverhill, we were living at Silverhill [unclear] and we used to cycle something like eleven miles there and back, or I did, not my wife, with my mate too, who also worked there, was about twenty two miles a day, I put that down the fact my legs are still going there, nearly ninety three. After that I felt that I could do better on my own which was a mistake really. I took another job in a garage, also sold cars for hire and this sort of stuff and left there after about a year. One thing I should mention is that I married my wife Doris in March 1952 and in 1953 both of us with the two friends took a coach from Hastings central and went up to London to witness what we could of the coronation of our present queen. To do so we had to sit in the rain in one of the London main streets, I forget which one, Bond Street or Regent Street and the happiest memory was seeing Queen Charlotte drive by unexposed by any in a carriage, waving to the crowds whereas everybody else was in closed carriages.
DS: Lovely.
RS: You’re alright?
DS: Yeah, absolutely fabulous. No, that’s fine.
US: [unclear] in Kent, not Lincolnshire.
DS: No, don’t worry. Yeah, don’t worry. Yeah, no, cause I know some of the places as well, cause I, no, no, don’t worry about it, I mean they may not use that little bit anyway, so, it’s no problem.
RS: No, no. Yeah, that’s right.
DS: No, that’s brilliant, lots of little bits that they can pick out of that.
RS: Yeah, that’s right. They can actually do that then, they cut their own tape of it.
DS: Yeah, what they’ll do is they’ll take the bits out that they want and put them all together and that sort of thing, so, yeah, there’s lots of little bits in there that, you know, the whole point is to let you just talk.
RS: Yeah. That’s it, yeah.
DS: So that you just say things. A bit like your, you said about your friend and you going down with [unclear], they’ll love that sort of thing. And the little sort of side you put in and that sort of thing. It’s all extra interest.
RS: Obviously [unclear] at the same time.
DS: No, of course. No, no, no, that’s fine, I mean.
US: [unclear] well, I could have said that.
DS: Well, [laughs] that’s always the same, there’s always, afterwards there’s always stuff that you think of that you could say but I wouldn’t. [file missing]
RS: One item I forgot to mention was a fact that shortly after joining up, at Blackpool I chummed up with a Scotch fellow by the name of Jimmy Sneddon. One thing I could have mentioned which presumably is not unusual but I thought it was, was the pal I mentioned when we were in Alexandria and doing a walkabout, we actually got together when we were at Blackpool, we went through obviously not unheard of to do what you are training together but after that we were both posted on 114 Squadron, we joined up with two a crew each of which the two pilots had also trained together and this meant that we kept on leave, we were going together and all the events, and he was with me when we arrived at Aden, we travelled together in the boat then in the Red Sea, but he had a class B posting and was able to get away from Aden a few months before I was able to, but he was a good friend and we met up twice after the war, it was a long time afterwards mind you because we drifted apart and you sort of lost track with everybody but it was good to have someone like it on your side, someone who could deal with all the day events and go on leave with, talk about, unfortunately we smoked too much and I’m suffering for it. End of story. After becoming a sergeant, which was automatic in those days, I carried on flight sergeant and when I left Aden I was a warrant officer and pride to wear the badge on my sleeve.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Ron Saunders
Creator
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Denise Boneham
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-16
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASaundersR160616
Conforms To
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Pending review
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Format
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00:43:53 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
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Ron Saunders joined the RAF as a wireless operator rear gunner and served on 114 Squadron during the war. Remembers, as a little boy, seeing the airship R 101 and the Hindenburg flying in the distance. Describes his training in England and in Egypt at various stations and being posted to Italy afterwards. Mentions various episodes: the troop ship being attacked twice; seeing king Farouk passing by in a convoy in the streets of Cairo. Recounts various episodes of his service time in Italy: wartime hardships, the Prime Minister’s and the King’s visit to their airfield, joining locals at a village festival. Tells of how his squadron supported the Eight Army in the Battle of the Argenta Gap. Remembers then being posted to Aden, where he was put in charge of flight control. After the war, mentions going to London to see the queen’s coronation.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
Great Britain
Italy
Oman
Mediterranean Region
Egypt--Alexandria
Egypt--Suez
Egypt--Cairo
Italy--Naples
Oman--Masirah Island
North Africa
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
114 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
B-26
bomb dump
bombing
Boston
C-47
demobilisation
training
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/323/3479/PReidS1701.2.jpg
ca773883858f3f335818c7c6827a084f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/323/3479/AReidS170318.2.mp3
4295976422005deb7c9923442521f322
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Reid, Simson
S Reid
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Simson Reid
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-18
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Reid, S
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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SR: My name is Simson Reid and I normally was called, during my service career, Jock Reid and
DM: I guess because you were Scots.
SR: That’s right. Because I was, I was Scots. And originally, I got first attracted to aircraft was when the — in one week we had the Graf Zeppelin over from Germany and we had Fighter Command fighters from Donibristle. And they were looking after the Forth Bridge, these fighters. And the others were looking after the Tay Bridge. So we were exposed all the time to the movement of aeroplanes.
DM: Ok.
SR: That was the, oh and the other thing — for ten shillings, which was about [pause] for ten shillings at that time when the average wage was fifty shillings a week you could go for a flight with Alan Cobham and that brought in the [pause] the first experience of of flying was in a, in an Alan Cobham flight and the and that was a trigger that led to other things.
DM: What year was that? Do you remember?
SR: That year would be [pause] I wasn’t at high school so that would be about — when I was about, I’d be ten years old. Eight to ten years old and I had this flight but it was all too short. But at the time I was sharing with my grandfather and and my own father had been gassed during the war and he coughed and various other things. To cut a long story short I became a teetotaller. I didn’t touch alcohol at all although I lived in a small village where Earl Haig who was the commander in the First World War, had a distillery.
DM: Oh right. Temptation. Yeah.
SR: So that was — now, at the same time I was very keen on radio. Just as kids today like to build computers I used to build radio sets and the radio — we got the valves from Philips in Holland and what was, something else. Oh, we made the coils and we made the — [pause] batteries were expensive so we would make an eliminator to run from the mains and the, and the — it was the easier on the pocket. So, but my first attraction was always on radio.
DM: Ok. So, did you do any flying between the age of ten and when you joined up?
SR: I — no. It was just, it was just too expensive.
DM: Right.
SR: It was just too expensive and it was only when you get these. They come for a couple of days, you pay your ten shillings and that was that. But my father he was always conscious that there would be another war.
DM: Right.
SR: And he, as I said, he — he had been gassed at Ypres during the war and he coughed in the morning by putting a cigarette. He then, he then had a drink of whisky and then he would be ready to go about his business. But without these three things, and that turned me into a teetotaller. I didn’t take any alcohol and I never have done.
DM: So even through your service through the war there was no alcohol.
SR: Pardon?
DM: So even in the mess in the, on the squadrons you never drank. No alcohol.
SR: No. I I kept alcohol for people who wanted it.
DM: Right.
SR: And because, during the war money was useless. You had to have a skill and you could, you could, with that skill you could get practically anything you liked. If you had the skill that somebody wanted.
DM: Ok.
SR: So, it was very important to to for the small village. I lived, was born in was Kennoway and Windygates. Now, Windygates had a distillery for Haig. Haig’s whisky.
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
SR: So, I was always looking what will I get to do? And the answer always came up is [pause] the job in the whisky world. In the whisky works didn’t pay anything.
DM: Right.
SR: It was, it was, it was now it’s very skilful to make a barrel that doesn’t leak water or leak whisky and and when a man, a young man finishes his first barrel and it doesn’t leak they dump him in the barrel and that’s it.
DM: Right.
SR: So, I had experiences of planes coming to defend the Forth Bridge from Donibristle and the other way was the Tay Bridge to the north and that was planes. So I was subject to planes all the time but at the same time my real hobby was building.
BR: Radios.
SR: Building little receivers to get, to get [pause] what’s the name of the place again? Luxembourg.
DM: Ah Radio Luxembourg.
SR: To pick up Radio Luxembourg on your home made set you were doing very well.
DM: Right. So, when you joined the air force — when was that? When did you join up for the Second World War?
SR: I joined up because I was at high school in Buckhaven and from my room looking over the sea I could see the German ships that had been sunk in Scapa Flow. They floated them up and towed them down past Buckhaven High School and it went on to a place that I — Inverkeithny where the, where they extracted all the metal.
DM: Right.
SR: From the, from the battleships and most people drew the conclusion that there was a war coming because to get that metal was much easier to raise the fallen ship than dig it up from there and start again.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, it was a time when, when [pause] now my father was very keen on radio because of politics. And this is —so he coughed up money for me to get, to get an eliminator so that I could not need to buy batteries because batteries were expensive.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And I would say that period of time was from a massive time when you are about nine to ten and and provided the [pause] there’s been much talk about Scots education but Scots education was only free if you did what the government wanted.
DM: Right.
SR: And no matter how much money your father had you got everything free if you —one passed the exam and two — you did your best for the country.
DM: Ok.
SR: It was, so it was a case of doing what they want, the country, the Scots country wanted.
DM: Right.
SR: That was the important part. It was. You were in Scotland. Therefore, you had to do what they wanted.
DM: Very good. That’s a good, that’s a good reason to join up because I guess it’s a social responsibility. Nothing else. Yeah.
SR: Well this was the big point. Is — is responsibility and I well remember when I finished my training I [pause] now the air force always tried to give you what you wanted to do. That was always on the cards. So, the [pause] I was very keen on, I was very keen on flying boats.
DM: Ok.
SR: And I felt like I would like to get on a flying boat but what I didn’t know at the time but I found out later that to be a wireless operator on a flying boat you had to be a wireless operator mechanic.
DM: Right.
SR: So that if you were in the middle of the Atlantic and you were going to break radio silence you had to be able to repair the set if it went faulty.
DM: Right.
SR: So, I I realised you need to be a WO/M AG. Wireless operator mechanic. AG. Now, in the, in the outbreak I got sent from, from — when you finish your training.
DM: The basic training.
SR: They sent me to Abbottsinch. Abbotsinch was an airport outside Glasgow and when I went there they told me they’d moved to Wick and I was taken aback by Wick so I was given a warrant by the police, the military police, and I went off to Wick. This time I didn’t know what I was going to do because what they did they just moved. They took over a high school. They just got rid of all the people. The pupils. And they’d take over the headquarters. And, and the — Wick was a dry town.
DM: Oh right.
SR: It didn’t have any alcohol and that even today, in Australia, you have to apply to get a licence. It is like, like inheriting something. They didn’t know what they were doing. But when I got to Wick they stuck me in a plane and gave me an ancient Lewis gun with all the stoppages that go with a Lewis gun and, and —but you see my grandfather had taught me to shoot.
DM: Ok.
SR: When I was about nine or eight or something like that. We shot probably for the food.
DM: Right.
SR: Because we made up our own ammunition ramming in it was a shotgun, not a rifle, a shotgun. And we lived off his, his gun so I was used to a gun.
DM: Right.
SR: And careful when you’re going through a fence or a hedge. You break the gun so it’s, you break the gun so you don’t kill yourself or somebody else. So, it was a funny time because in the Scouts I had learned Morse code and signalling with flags. That was all, that was all a bit of entertainment. And we used to get — if you could wind your coil and things like that and get Radio Luxembourg you were doing very well. It but when I got to Wick I got quite a shock because I felt that the war hadn’t really started. The first thing I had to do as a wireless operator gunner they put me in an old plane with a, with a moveable [pause] — it was an Anson.
DM: Oh yeah.
SR: An Anson. And the first thing they wanted I had to take on charge, as a wireless operator, I had to take on charge all the parts of the radio equipment in the plane and be held responsible if there was something missing.
DM: Right.
SR: And then, and then my job was enlarged to take in the bomb release gear. Somebody had to check it to make sure it was serviceable. They didn’t have anybody and I was just arrived and I got the job of not only, not only taking all the radio equipment on charge but sometimes the tail light would be missing. Now, the Avro Anson was a wooden plane and this tail light was screwed on. But you had to, somebody had to put in to get a new tail light and that was going to be too bloody difficult so all you did is pinch the tail light from somebody else.
DM: Right.
SR: Unscrew it. And then, and then we presented, in the morning, we presented for duty and we had an inspection to make sure our buttons were shiny and everything like that and and one day the Germans dropped, oh it was a dry town, no alcohol whatsoever and if you had a success with a submarine you had to go to Thurso which wasn’t a dry town to get alcohol.
DM: Right.
SR: Another reason for being teetotal. So, when the Germans dropped a bomb in to Wick harbour it wiped out the illegal shipping that was down there and everybody said, ‘There you are. God willing whether or not you choose alcohol.’
DM: Fate. Yeah.
SR: So, for some time I [pause] Oh and the wireless operator came in for, an Anson you had to wind up the engine.
DM: Oh yeah. I see.
SR: You wind it up and it was like a spring back of wind thing. You wind up a spring, press it and the spring had this stored up energy which allowed the thing to fire.
DM: Right.
SR: And if the pilot was a bit ham handed and missed it you had to do it all over again. So that was my — oh and the other thing it was very religious town and they kept their daughters well and truly locked up away from the airmen.
BR: Probably just as well.
DM: Yeah. Good idea. Yeah.
SR: So, after a time they [pause] they and this is why I ended up on Coastal Command, no, I started off at Coastal Command. I, and this is a theory because if you’re with an Avro Anson you’re not, you’re looking for submarines. You’re hoping. You’re no good going very high because he can see you and you and he has plenty of time if you’re high up to see you. So, what happens you had to take everything as it came and you flew low. You flew low and when you flew low the short-wave radio doesn’t operate.
DM: Right.
SR: So, you have about two or three minutes in the cold water and then you’re dead. So, what happened next was the navigator — we’d got a carrier pigeon.
DM: Right.
SR: And we took a carrier pigeon from a house near the aerodrome and the navigator then tied this note giving our position to this, to this carrier pigeon and let it go and all our prayers were on that because if you go in the water with your flying suit on and boots and things like that you were dead in a few minutes.
DM: Yeah. Very quick.
SR: So, by and large they, they got better. They stopped parading every morning when the Germans sank —when they bombed the harbour and and I got posted back because I didn’t realise only the best trained youngsters could go on a flying boat.
DM: Right.
SR: I didn’t realise that. You had to be a wireless op mechanic.
DM: So, the mechanic bit was –
SR: It’s –
BR: He’d no training at Wick.
SR: So, what they then did because I had no gunnery training at all so I went on the way south to West Freugh and then I did some real training there and after West Freugh I went, I went south again and and I was ready to go to, to France with Fairey Battles.
DM: Oh right.
SR: Now, the Fairey Battles were pretty useless machines. They would look like a Spitfire but they had a, they had a pilot and they had a navigator and a wireless operator and they were out-manoeuvred. The Germans knocked off about a hundred in a week. So, I was left. What am I going to do next?
DM: Right.
SR: And and what happened is the [pause] I got Tonsillitis. So I had Tonsillitis and they couldn’t do anything with me for a bit. So, when the Tonsillitis went they said he’s got to have his tonsils out. So I then, I then, what the hell did I do now? Tonsils out [pause] oh I’ve forgotten. But for a time now I I was not a great lover of pigeons because I’d left pigeons and pigeons fly very quickly but sometimes they sit on the roof for a day or two.
DM: Oh right.
SR: Before they’ll go into the coop. And, and I knew this and when I used to rest my pigeons I would make sure that they [pause] you took a male who was having — his mate was having a nest. Laying eggs. And when you used a male like that he just flew straight there and straight in.
DM: Straight in. Yeah.
SR: And that was it. So, having the, having the tonsils I then went so I passed West Freugh so when I went after this and I had my tonsils out I [pause] I have to think for a moment now. That’s when I got sent to Scampton.
DM: Oh right.
SR: Now, at Scampton it was very much different. It was all precision and it meant to be precision. So [pause] and I was still clinging to the idea that I would like to live on a flying boat but what happened is I I [pause] oh I’ve forgotten now what happened but I missed going to France so on occasions I had been very lucky. Now, I’ve got to try and link on the next thing at Lincoln.
BR: Was it about not volunteering?
SR: Pardon?
BR: Was it about not volunteering? You wanted to become a pilot didn’t you?
SR: Oh I. Oh yeah. That came later.
BR: Oh, that’s later.
SR: That came later. So first and foremost I went, I went into a [pause] ah yes, I went to 14 OTU. Wait a moment. I have to get this right. I’m getting mixed up again. One second. I went to West Freugh and did some proper gunnery training.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And, and that was at West Freugh. Yes. Now, bomber [paused] Bomber Command was a, was a different kettle of fish. It was very efficient. It was very efficient and I am getting lost a moment. I’ll get it a moment. It just takes time. I — and that’s when I did some real training at West Freugh and I then went down to, I think it was then I went to Scampton. Now, at Scampton the [pause] and I met my wife in Scampton. She was in the WAAF.
DM: Ok.
SR: And she was ninety seven and died a couple of months ago. So, I’m a bit lost. But coming back to Scampton was a, was a –
BR: Is that when you joined the squadron? At Scampton.
SR: Pardon?
BR: That’s when you joined the squadron at Scampton isn’t it? your squadron.
SR: I joined the squadron. Yes.
BR: Yeah
SR: I have been very lucky. Very lucky. So, the next, and I think Napoleon once said this to his guards, ‘You’re all brave men but the lucky ones — you should be lucky.’ You should be lucky. Anyhow, we [pause] when I went, oh yes, it’s coming now. When I joined 49 Squadron I’d done Latin at school and it was, “Cave canum.” “Beware of the dog.”
DM: Right.
SR: And that was at Scampton.
BR: Motto.
SR: So, so it’s, it’s [pause] so I had, the next problem is, what next? Now, at the 14 SR: OTU I was going through a proper Bomber Command training.
DM: Right.
SR: That was a big thing. Before it was a mishmash. So, what I did was, its coming back, it’s slowly. Bomber Command. Ah yes, we had, I had some proper [pause] I had some proper training in the air but then it started on what we called for short the ally ally at Doncaster. Now, Doncaster was marvellous training because this, the guy in charge hadn’t reached air marshall. He was building up with these Lancasters.
DM: Right.
SR: Hampdens. Hampdens. Now, the Hampdens is a different plane from all other. The British normally would — they [pause] dispersed the crew around so that anti-aircraft didn’t wipe the whole lot off.
DM: Yeah.
SR: Whereas the Hampden, which I ended up with, was a really built on German style. It did not, to begin with, it didn’t have a toilet.
DM: Right.
SR: That was important. It also looked like a German plane because it had two fins.
DM: Right.
SR: And it was — as a wireless operator gunner there was only four people on. There was the wireless operator gun, gunner and a man underneath with a gun pointing downwards and then there was the pilot. And underneath him because it was two storey but —
DM: Ok.
SR: It was a second pilot. But in emergency to get, say the second pilot, who was also the navigator, you had to pull him up if the pilot got killed with shrapnel or something like that. You had to pull up and get him, get his body off the cockpit. So, the Hampden had some shortcomings. It was difficult to get into. It was difficult to get out of. And, and the — it’s a model of one that my, Barbara’s husband he looked at it and drew, and drew in metal.
DM: Ok. So, this one.
SR: Yeah. That was it. You so, you see had only twin tail.
DM: Yeah.
SR: There was no gun turret in there. No gun turret in the front. And the crew were not dispersed. They were all in the front here.
DM: Right. All together.
SR: So, what happened was I went to Scampton and [pause] and oh I was telling you about this ally ally first. Before. This was in Doncaster and Gillingham. And what they did I’m trying to illustrate the training.
DM: Yeah.
SR: That we got. You would go into a hangar and there was Hampdens sitting on the ground. And what happened then the lights would gradually go because you only bombed at night. So, what happened then was underneath this plane they had a roll like canvas or something and it denoted the countryside that you were flying over.
DM: Oh. Ok. Yeah.
SR: Over the sea or what. And then you would have — have strung up in the dark, it was all dark, it was night. Because it was simulating a night raid and this was after the Operational Training Unit. You would then, you would then simulate the fighters coming at that and they reduce the power of your radio because it was a long way away.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, it was all, so when you had done the ally ally and you you had some freedom because that was really formally the end of your training.
DM: Right.
SR: And then you then got posted to wherever you had been and I went to to Scampton and there in Scampton I met my wife. She was the WAAF stenographer to the group captain in charge. I think it was Whitworth but I’m not sure.
BR: It was.
SR: My memory’s starting to play up a bit. So, now I had done at OTU some leaflet dropping. Dropping leaflets. She was a WAAF. Dropping leaflets.
DM: I can see why you got married.
SR: Yes. She, she dropped leaflets and tea bags. There was propaganda all the time because when Lord Haw Haw the British Irishman who was broadcasting for the Germans they tried to discourage him by saying, when he said we were short of tea we would drop tea bags. And then we would drop leaflets asking them to give up. And there was another tea bag. What it was. What the hell was it now? Takes time. Oh yeah, a favourite spot you see was the tactics that the British adopted and I remember being very upset because they decided to raid Danzig. Danzig. And the, and that is the home of the Prussians to the north. And what they did is they flew — normally you flew over the over the sea to about to approach Germany. You were approaching the Frisian islands and then, now and then what you would normally do was then go up to your operational height where you would, your bombs were primed to drop from, from say eight thousand to ten thousand feet. It would be because you didn’t want to be above the cloud. A fighter will get you. If you’re underneath the cloud the ground people could kill you so you got a bumpy ride in the cloud.
DM: Right.
SR: Now where did I get now? Well we did leaflets. We did leaflets.
DM: You were talking about Danzig.
SR: Danzig. Ah yes. Ah yes. Now, that’s it. And I remember being very upset that what they did —normally they picked a plane. And the plane. But they picked the men this time. Individual.
DM: Ok.
SR: So, I I was really upset because another Scots fellow got, got picked to go. Well, he went but as was to be expected he got there alright because he took them totally by surprise and this is what Bomber Command was about. They did not — you couldn’t read today and tomorrow they will do exactly the same.
DM: Yeah.
SR: It was not like that at all. So, what they did they skimmed low but instead of rising to their operational height they flew straight away and they took the Germans completely by surprise.
DM: Right.
SR: So, they bombed Danzig. But when they turned to come home the Germans knew exactly what they were going to do. So, a lot of them tried to get via Sweden and and Norway. They tried everything but by and large most of them ended up as prisoners of war.
DM: Right.
SR: And the, I think [pause] anyhow I am back again and back now at Scampton and at Scampton is an old Roman road called Watling Street.
DM: Ah. Yeah.
SR: And you wouldn’t believe it. On one side it’s a very deep, deep drop and on the other side it’s nothing but there’s a deep [unclear] and it had been used in the First World War. So I then got my first bombing trip other than the leaflets and the [pause] It brings back memories of people. And one guy was so protective of his, of his, what do you call it? His sexual organs.
DM: Right.
BR: Family jewels. Yeah.
SR: He, he brought along a piece of armour plate which he put underneath the wireless operator’s seat.
DM: Right.
SR: And that would be alright. Now, there was another guy who never flew anywhere with a parachute. He just wouldn’t.
DM: Right.
SR: And that’s it. So — so coming back now to me I was, I was picked to go to Kiel. To Kiel. To bomb Kiel Harbour.
DM: Ok.
SR: Now, at that time the Germans were really being plastered by, by Bomber Command on say the station master at Ham. They bombed the station.
DM: Right.
SR: In Germany and tried and disrupt it as much as possible. Then the Germans did [pause] now before we took off the Germans were leaking like a sieve with all the guest workers they had.
DM: Right. Yeah.
SR: And we’d given, on rice paper, the position of this. You see, the Germans had many radio stations and they used to switch them so we didn’t know where they were. They would be on the same frequency but use a different call sign. And that was very confusing for, for people, but we were given, on rice paper but only what was right and we had to swallow that in case we were taken a prisoner.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, all was said and the, and the Hampdens coming back got shot up sometimes because they looked like a German plane. Which they did.
DM: Yeah.
SR: Their twin tails and no gun turrets and things like that. So, so, when we, when [pause] now when we took off the pilot now each pilot had his own way of doing things. The first one was you’re supposed to check up your engines and check and wait on a green light.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And then you’ve got the green light then you go out to the take-off point. And then you, you rev up again and check up to make sure everything’s all right and then you take off. Now, some pilots, you were always very conscious of running out of fuel over the North Sea because you were cutting down fuel to increase the bomb load and so each pilot had his own way of doing things. Now, we were taking off in thick fog. It was unbelievable that anybody would. Would take off in such weather. But the whole idea was to —it started to get nasty. Before it was bombing ships and metal and roofs and things. Then it got nasty and you identified people. Now, the Germans did something very very clever but in the end it proved dumb. What they did, what they did was the British, the British always went with dead reckoning.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And things like that. And you went as an individual and you bombed as an individual and you came home as an individual. And you were hoping that the Spitfires wouldn’t mistake the Hampden. Well what happened then is — where the hell did I get to?
BR: Taking off in the fog.
SR: Pardon?
BR: You were taking off in the fog and then you started talking about the smart German plan that was really dumb.
SR: Wait a moment. Let me. It’ll come in a minute.
DM: I think you were comparing the British strategy with the German strategy. As being Individual and I think the Germans were in squadrons. In formation.
SR: Yeah. You see it will come in a minute. It will come in a minute. I’ve got to Scampton. I’ve got to Scampton and we were being briefed and the Germans —ah yes, it’s coming now. The Germans something very cunning but stupid in the end. They put a radio beam — I’ve got it now. We had standard landing approach and this was developed in America. And it meant that you would land in in bad weather and miss mountains.
DM: Right.
SR: So, what you had was a radio beam which went out a long long way and when you’re not at war now. You’re at home. And you pick up this beam and your frightened of Snaefell and Skiddaw and all the mountains and when you approach that you get a beam.
DM: Right.
SR: And on one side there’s a dot or a dash.
DM: Yeah.
SR: Now, that is a dot or a dash by by swinging the transmitter on the ground backwards and forwards.
DM: Ok.
SR: You then get to what’s called the outer marker. And at the outer marker — which is a sound coming up from the ground. There’s a transmitter down there and then you proceed. And you proceed and then you get to an inner marker and when you get the inner marker you know exactly you are at the end of the runway and you just let down. You’ve got to have the nerve to let down. In the thick fog you don’t see anything.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, what the Germans did they used standard Lorenz landing gear like that and so did the British. They both were having identical equipment.
DM: Right.
SR: Now, the next thing that happened is the German radio engineer had a bright idea which proved fatal for him in the end. He, he laid a beam right across from Germany over —over Coventry.
DM: Right.
SR: Over Coventry. Then, in France they also laid a beam from France right across Coventry. And when the two met, beams met, they were over Coventry and automatically the bombs were released.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, they bombed Coventry without seeing the ground. That shook the British no end. And it shook everybody else because round the bit of Coventry were all the factories.
DM: Yeah.
SR: Making planes and things like that but all the workers were dead in Coventry centre. So that shook the British and it was the end of of bombing [pause] the end of bombing indiscriminately.
DM: Yeah.
SR: It was human beings and that’s why the British started killing the people who were preparing these V1 and V2s and things like that.
DM: Yeah.
SR: It was a complete change. A complete change. And, and now I, in the meantime I had, I had didn’t get to do my trip to to Kiel because the pilot crashed.
DM: Oh right.
SR: Now, he did — he did the [pause] it was pitch dark and, and he took off in fog. No wind at all to help you up and what he did was he clipped the one and only bloody tree that was there because there was no lift. There’s no lift when there’s no wind.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And, and we knew we were going to crash because he, he hit the tree and there was a bump and then he said, ‘Prepare to crash.’ And, and so we did but I believe it’s stupid and you get told to do it all the time — brace yourself. Well, if you brace yourself what happens? But I didn’t know it. You see I was surrounded with ammunition. I was surrounded with ammunition and there — there was a, your two guns with pans to fill and you [pause] you so in a way you were protected by the pans but in the end when we hit the ground everything — everything happens so fast that you can hardly remember it. I can hardly remember that the guy down below, between my legs, he wasn’t there. He got wiped off.
DM: Right.
SR: And then I couldn’t get out because the metal — they’d used a very light metal. I think it had a lot of magnesium in it and when it gets hot it goes on fire. Now, I knew I was burning because you can smell yourself burning and I thought I had had it. Then all of a sudden, out of the blue, the two — the pilot and the navigator came around and risked their lives to get me out. So, what they did they just, they just tore everything away and managed to get me out of this heavy flying outfit because bear in mind you had, you had a silken thing. This plane was not meant for comfort. It didn’t have a toilet. It didn’t have anything. It didn’t have any heating so you heated yourself with silk and underclothes. Everything was built for speed and it was quite fast. But what happened then — I got up, they got me out and then I knew there was something wrong with me. I had given myself up for dead and then it’s remarkable how when you think you’re free you’re not dead. So, we got out and each, the pair of them grabbed me by a hand and they pulled me in to the nearest ditch. Ditch. And we went in to the ditch and it was, it was cold and wet. Don’t forget it was November. November can be bloody cold. So –and then we waited because the bombs were going to go off with the burning. It burned. It burnt like a cigarette lighter and then we hid in the ditch until the bombs exploded and went off and then we were really shaken. Then, from sometime later people from the squadron came and got on our shelter. The other two were alright. The pilot. The underground guy, I never saw him again. And all I knew is I was conscious of there was something wrong with my leg. I didn’t know what was wrong and I tried to get up and run. And then the crew, the station people came and got me. The doctor on the station. He came and gave me a shot of some pain killer and then I was taken to Rauceby. To Rauceby Hospital and there was [pause] there was a doctor there and he worked so hard. I’ve never seen anybody work so hard but my arm was burned, my face was burned. Left the shelter. I lost two teeth and I I and this guy set to work on me and they — they put a saline solution on my burns because at one time they used to put tannin something on and it was all shrink and wrinkle and things like that. But I was very lucky because the RAF had their own doctors and I’d never seen doctors work so hard in my life as I did then. Then after a time, they got rid of my, they got rid of the saline solution but my ankle was a different proposition. I was in, I was in [pause] I was having hot wax baths because my, my ankle was in a bad way and my burns were better but my ankle was the biggest trouble. And then, and then I ended up in hospital in Rauceby and I was there for three and a half years.
DM: Wow.
SR: Three and a half years I never got out of bed. I never got out of bed. I was in wax. Wax. And then one day they said to me, ‘We don’t think we can do anything more for you except take bones from your hip and make pegs out of the bone.’ And they pegged up my right leg. It burned up my right leg so that I couldn’t do that. Up and down. I could do that. I couldn’t walk on grass. I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t dance. Your mother was a good dancer. And so, I just had to live with it. I had to live with this. Then I had, what can always be said, is a piece of luck. A piece of luck. Because, and this is where my training in the air force was very good —they just said to me, ‘We don’t know what to do with you,’ So they did this operation. I think it’s illegal now but they did it. but at least it saved my leg otherwise my leg would have been off.
DM: Right.
SR: So, what happened [pause] is a captain [pause] it’s coming in a minute. It’s coming in a minute. A captain. I’ve forgotten his name. They offered me a job despite having my, my burns had gone.
DM: Yeah.
SR: My nose. I still get a bit of problem with my nose and one day they said, ‘Look. You can still fly.’ I said, ‘I know that. What would you like me to do?’ He then said to me, ‘We want you to go outside.’ I said, ‘What do you mean by outside?’ He said, ‘Anything in the world. You go where I ask you to go.’ He said, ‘What kind of a man are you? Do you want to get back to your wife every night?’ I said, ‘No, but I’d like to know what I’m going to do.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘This is what we’re going to do if you’re willing. We are going to, when we get a big contract for communications.’ Now, bear in mind I was more keen on engineering. Keen than that.
DM: Yeah.
SR: He said, ‘Would you go with the contract?’ Will you learn Arabic?’ I said, ‘Yes. Yes, I’ll learn Arabic.’ So, he then said, ‘When we get a contract you will go along. You’ll fly there. You don’t need to walk anywhere. You’ll fly there and I’ll fly first class all the time.’ So off we went and the first time I went was to Libya. And I went to Libya and I showed them how to — to I showed them how. How to build but they were crafty because [pause] it will come in a minute. So, I I went to Libya and then I went to Turkey and all the time I was, was, as somebody once said to me, ‘Walking like a ruptured crab.’ But the fact is I couldn’t walk on grass. I couldn’t do anything except I could talk and tell them what to do with the equipment and it was many millions of dollars or pounds that.
BR: Is this still with the air force though dad?
SR: Pardon?
BR: Is this still with the air force when you went to Libya?
SR: No. I had left the air force because they told me they couldn’t do anything for me.
BR: No. You were training people.
SR: Pardon?
BR: You were training people at Scampton. Weren’t you? After the, after you got better weren’t you training people at Scampton?
SR: Oh no. No. I missed a bit. I missed a bit. This is —I missed a bit out.
BR: You did.
SR: At Scampton.
BR: Yeah.
SR: They didn’t know what to do with me so what they came up with there’d been a lot of people who had wanted to be aircrew and they and they were accepted and immediately sent overseas to Rhodesia and Canada and when they came back [pause] and when they came back they they then saw the chances of living was very slim so they then started failing in Morse and failing this and failing that. So, it was a waste of money. So, for what they then did is, I was still at Scampton and that’s where I was told I was walking like a ruptured crab. But they had an idea that I would do Morse training to youngsters before they were sent to Canada or Rhodesia.
DM: Ok.
SR: So they could be on a bomber station and see the carnage at night because it was every dark night. Every dark night it was carnage. So, its [pause] so it was a, now I’ve got, I missed that. I missed that. But then this guy in Coventry took me and said you will go outside and you will go first class and you will, when we get a big contract you will tell them how to, how to do it.
DM: And this was after the air force.
SR: Eh?
DM: This was after you left the air force. Was it?
SR: This was after the air force.
DM: Yeah.
SR: The air force said, ‘We don’t know what to do with you,’ And that’s when they stiffened me up. Nevertheless, I and they had told me a little bit about getting on with people. Getting on with people. So, when the [pause] this fellow in Coventry — he started to get me to do Arabic and and then he would send me out to with senior people and a lot of the people were Muslims who came to, to Coventry to get the skills and things like that.
DM: Ok.
SR: So, all was going reasonably well because I — wait a moment. It’ll come in a second. I haven’t been to Finland yet have I?
DM: No. Not Finland.
SR: Well, the first thing is I went to Finland. I was out of the air force then. I went to Finland but you see I never felt the cold.
DM: Right.
SR: And one day the Fins are pretty [pause] I was in Coventry working with GEC. GEC. General Electric Company. And I went to Finland because I had skills which, if you take the curvature of the earth and then you look to see on the curvature of the earth what obstructions are in the way like trees and things like that. And buildings. So, I had to sit in Coventry in a planning section and plan this, this — allow for the curvature of the earth and then allow for the length of the feature and then it comes up with how high your towers are. Now, the higher you go the more expensive it is so you have to keep it low. So, I went to Coventry — to Finland and I was up in the Gulf of Oulu.
DM: Oh yes.
SR: That’s a little place at the top and I was out. Out. It was dry. A dry cold and I didn’t feel it and I didn’t have I hat on and this policeman thought I was a drunk.
DM: Right.
SR: So, they took me to the contractor. They knew what I was doing and then, and then I got the message. I can’t go around without a hat. I got a hat and a fur [unclear] to come down and touch your ears otherwise you’ll going to get frostbite.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So that was Oulu. Then I found out that the, the — then I found out that the crooks were getting very smart and they were pinching the copper from a power line.
DM: Yeah.
SR: With a power line. Now, in my dealings with with GEC they developed what was called a power line carrier. In other words over say a 400kb line they would put over a communication signal.
DM: Yeah. Ok. Yeah.
SR: Now, and I was, I was very fortunate then because they sent me to Haiti in the West Indies.
DM: You’ve been everywhere.
SR: And I’ve been evacuated. And now, now I didn’t know what came next except I got a phone call in Haiti and it was a tough country, Haiti. Papa Doc Duvalier. So, I was worried that I would have to stay and do a complete look after the project because it was from, from everything the company had. Well, it wasn’t to be because in all these trips I had been tearing around the world and my wife was at home.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And she didn’t like it. Then she asked, they asked me to go. To come home and, ‘We want you to go to Australia for three years.’
DM: Right.
SR: But first, we want you to go to Northern Ireland and then Eire, Southern Ireland. Now, what happens is Northern Ireland? The Shannon. The river rises but when it gets down south that’s where they take the power from it to make electricity and this is what they were doing. They were going to do with. So I came. I came home and, and I had to be pretty careful with this. With walking. I was walking, as the guy said —like a ruptured crab. And then and then they sprung their surprise, ‘We want you to go to Australia for three years.’ Now, my wife had a sister in Sydney.
DM: Ok.
SR: So, it didn’t mean a thing to me except I had problems with driving a car. When I was flying everywhere I wasn’t using my [pause]
DM: Yeah.
SR: So we I went to Ireland and saw this new form of communications where you inject a communications into the power of the high voltage line.
DM: Right.
SR: Now, it’s not without its danger.
DM: I can imagine. Yeah.
SR: Because if you do it exactly as the book said you hadn’t got a problem but if you don’t behave it you will. You will be in trouble. So, I came here and to my amazement to my amazement they [pause] they, it took off here because it was a snowy mountain scheme.
DM: Ok.
SR: And there was a power line carrier. It was taking the water and nobody can pinch the communications. The military liked it here as well.
DM: Ok.
SR: The military liked it here and so I had about three years here and they then — and they then called me home.
DM: Right.
SR: And when my call, when my wife went home she didn’t like the cold weather. She didn’t like the cold weather.
DM: I can imagine that. Yeah.
SR: So, what happened next is she persuaded me to give up this good job I had because I was well paid. Wherever I went I was well paid. And we had got married so when we got here —oh when she went home she didn’t like it. It was too cold. Too cold. So, she persuaded me to give up the job which had paid me very well and we we soldiered on. So, at the end of the time she said, ‘Look. I’m not happy here. Let’s go back. Let’s go back.’ So, for the first time in my life I paid out to come out on a ship.
DM: Ok.
SR: And I got here and I then approached Philips for a job. I approached numerous people for a job and I couldn’t get a job. So, I said, ‘Now we’ve made a mess of this.’ You see, my wife, she, she had rescued me when I was really low when I didn’t think anybody would marry me.
DM: Right.
SR: Anyway, we got married but when it came here the snowy mountain scheme was going to come to an end and it came to an end and then I had to start looking for a job. And the only place I could get a job —you wouldn’t believe this —was Siemens the German company. So, I found out that I was a better communication engineer than the Germans were.
DM: Right.
SR: The Germans were not very good engineers at all. They may have good engineers in metal but electronics is a completely different ball game. So, what happened then? I [pause] they offered me then a job. They offered me a job. So, but I was very windy that they would get rid of me the next day.
DM: Right.
SR: Things like that. So, nevertheless, I’ve always been like this if you’ve got to do something do it and get on with it. So, what happened next? They said to me, ‘We would like you to go to a German language school?’
DM: Ok.
SR: And I said yes. Yes. Yes. ‘But we want you to go to Germany to do the language school and it will take six months. You will be well looked after but we have assessed you and you can do the job but you have to learn German.’
DM: Right.
SR: So, I went off to Germany and and the went to a little —a little school in the country outside Munich and in this outside Munich for six days for six months I ate, ate in this small school. I ate together, worked together with a group from all over the world.
DM: Right.
SR: And I was very careful not to speak too much to Spaniards and things like that because their speech was hopeless. Whereas I had done French and my Scots accent came right through the French.
DM: Right.
SR: But with German I could handle it. I could handle it.
DM: I could imagine the Scots and German.
SR: Yeah.
DM: Easy. Yeah.
SR: So, I found I found that the Germans had —they didn’t like to lose money either. They didn’t like to lose money and I and I was in this village completely on my own and the [pause] so when the time now I was so green at the time I was learning German and then you come to a time when you think you know and I thought I knew everything. But then I found I didn’t know everything. Especially I never heard children speaking German and things like that.
DM: Ok.
SR: But you had to read a newspaper as part of the exam. There’s always an exam with Germans.
DM: Yeah.
SR: So, I had to take this exam and you read the newspaper and then you’ve got to condense it. Make it smaller.
DM: Ok. Yeah. Precis.
SR: And then I found out words that I would never come across in this newspaper. It says — “This woman is looking for a husband,” and he has to be so tall and have so much money and do this and do that. I couldn’t believe it but then you had to do a [unclear] I but then you had to repeat it again and I was aghast at how much. Then after that I worked up to, after the, after I’d had my sixth months training you think you know everything then and then you realise you’re only just beginning. So, I went to Switzerland and the Swiss want you to speak German but like –
DM: Like the Swiss.
SR: Like the Swiss speak German.
DM: Very different.
SR: Yeah. And then I went to Italy because Siemens were working with Italy and the Italians [pause] Milano. And I drove from Munich to Milano by car and I then had the confidence to some driving again. I was getting. I was getting better but I was getting well paid. They were paying well. So what happened then is I came back here and this new power line — the military were very interested because you can’t tap a line.
DM: Yeah.
SR: On a 400kb [unclear] so I then, I then but all the time my leg was protesting. The whole bloody time it was protesting and I was in pain. The more I walked the worse it was. Then this. And then this [pause] when they put this this piece of hip into my right ankle.
DM: Yeah.
SR: It never really took. It never really took. And I used to see the doctor here, Dr Spencer, he has looked after my leg all the time I’ve been here in Australia and then I came to the conclusion that if Siemens were going to get rid of me they wouldn’t do it after they’d spent so much money.
DM: Right.
SR: So, when they came back. When I came back I built this house and I built it with no stairs, no lift. One floor only. But I still have trouble with my leg.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And if you look at the leg it’s all swollen up.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And it’s all swollen up all the time. And I then, they asked me, they asked me when you get to a certain level they didn’t like my weight.
DM: Right.
SR: And, and they were very conscious of your health all the time and they had me dipping fingers in chalk and then standing up and trying to jump, leap up and put a mark how high I could go. And I — then they wanted to know, they wanted to send me to Germany for training before I got promotion.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And I, they had for two days they had me because I was overweight and then they investigated my family. What they had died of. How long they had lived for. My father, my mother and my grandmother and if didn’t know but I did know my grandmother. What she had died of and they but I learned something if you leave a question unanswered it comes back regularly. It comes back regularly. So, in the end they said we [pause] now I had to assess my staff.
DM: Yeah.
SR: I had about two hundred engineers here. Radio engineers of different, different nationalities. They were, they were not all north Germans. They were all people who didn’t want Germany but they had been in Germany. So I, when they told me they wanted to send me to Germany I went to see my local, my doctor here. He said, ‘Look. They’re doing this for their benefit not for yours.’ So, I kept that in mind. So it’s, it’s been a — they paid well. Siemens paid very well but they demand a lot.
DM: Very Germanic.
SR: They demand. So, what I was doing I was flying to New Zealand and up to Papua New Guinea and flying all around Australia. Tasmania.
DM: Yeah.
SR: And I found that I was doing more traveling here than I had been in the UK so there Germans want it their way but I also wanted it my way. And, and they held up, now, you get promotion if you’ve been successful but there is a price you have to pay for that promotion. You have to be slim.
DM: Right.
SR: And I was never a slim person. I was a football player in Scotland when I was young and I, unfortunately when you come to the exercise you put on weight. But there’s another thing. When I joined Siemens I used my military training. Now, this is a big country and they have one failing. They don’t make anything themselves. They buy everything. They buy a power supply or test instruments or that but what happens — the six states, the six states send in roughly about three months in advance of the orders being placed to a central office here and if you use your brains you fly to these six states and talk to the people and you find out what they’re going to order.
DM: Right.
SR: It costs you money. It costs you money but you make you don’t make errors. You don’t make errors. So, what happens is my expense bill would be high.
DM: Yeah.
SR: But by the same token I didn’t drink alcohol of any kind so they knew I wasn’t alcoholic or anything like that but I pointed out is by wanting to be sure of meeting my budget, my budget and the Germans give you a budget and they mean it.
DM: Yeah.
SR: It’s not their — they don’t like a hockey stick budget that’s like that, then goes up like that. You have to. So by and large I had to do a lot of travelling here and in New Zealand because the new Zealanders are very pro-Europe. Pro UK. I mean not [UT?] so I knew pretty well what to do in New Zealand. So, they would ask me to go to New Zealand and I would go to New Zealand and even when I was retiring when I was seventy two they said, ‘Keep in New Zealand.’ And I said I may as well have stayed in Scotland. It is bloody well cold in southern New Zealand. And they agreed with me but the said, ‘We’ll bring you home every week. Just get the business.’ You see the Germans have a philosophy that it’s better to pay a bribe than lose staff that you’ve trained for years.
DM: Yeah.
SR: That’s one of their golden mottos.
DM: Hang on to people.
SR: But they have another rule and I notice that Britain has that as well. If a senior German has sex with a youngster the senior gets the sack.
DM: Right.
SR: Now, recently in England — in England there was a woman who became a captain of a ship. She had sex with a young, a young man. She got the sack.
DM: She got the sack.
SR: The senior got the sack. And the Germans are exactly the same.
DM: Right.
SR: Now, there’s another similarity. Another similarity. The English came from lower Saxony, Dresden. They like a front door and a back door. The tradesman go to the back door. The ordinary person goes to the front door but tradesman go to the back.
DM: Yeah. Much the same.
SR: And there’s similarity. I’ve had opportunity to watch all this.
DM: Yeah. Tell me. Did you ever have another operation on your leg? Or was it?
SR: I, I had a, I had a the ankle joint was destroyed completely.
DM: Yeah. So, you had the operation in the air force and then afterwards did you have another operation or has it always been the same?
SR: No. It’s always been the same.
DM: Right.
SR: Nobody else has touched it. it was the, it was the —if I will show you what the problem is. I’ll just put that down. [pause] I’ve always caused amazement when I go into a hospital and I’ve been in here, in lots of hospitals. And I met, one second —oh yeah that’s my glasses. I’ll put my glasses up here.
DM: Right.
SR: And then I’ll put that down if I may.
DM: Right.
SR: Then I’ll show you. This has always caused, whenever I go into a hospital and I’ve been into a few and a few English doctors were out here. I’m desperately [unclear] stuck otherwise I’ll knock it.
[pause]
DM: It’s obviously difficult.
SR: Can you just take my, take it off?
DM: Oh right.
SR: It’s all swollen.
BR: [unclear] have you seen Dr Spencer. You went down there for a while.
SR: This is all the time and I’ve had to take pills.
DM: Continuously. Yeah.
SR: Pardon?
DM: Continuously since it happened.
SR: Pardon?
DM: Continuously. Pills.
SR: Continuously. Look, I’ve had pain all my life since this happened.
DM: Yeah.
SR: I used to be a football player. I used to be a dancer. Scottish reels and things like that. My wife, she married when me — when I was like this.
BR: What did you do with your friends?
SR: Pardon?
BR: When you and mum went dancing what did you do with friends? Do you remember that story?
SR: I’ve forgotten.
BR: Well mum liked dancing. Dad would have one dance with her even though it was too much and he lined up his friends. You got your friends to dance with mum.
SR: Oh yes. I think I told you, you see, my wife was a WAAF at the station to the — stenographer to the station commander and she [pause] she. Oh dear.
BR: She was rather taken by you, dad.
SR: What?
BR: She was rather taken by you.
SR: Yeah.
BR: Right.
SR: I was taken by her. Now, this is the point. I’ll start again. There used to be a saying that aircrew married their nurses.
DM: Right.
SR: Well, it was almost true for me because I had been so long in Rauceby Hospital and you’re plastered up to here sometimes and it can be most uncomfortable because in the summer time a fly can get in and cause you — in the plaster can cause irritation or if there’s been bleeding it stinks. So, what happened is I couldn’t dance and Bett was a good dancer. Now, when she and I at Scampton got together she made it very clear she wouldn’t carry on with me if I had any kind of connection with a nurse.
BR: [unclear]
SR: You know it’s a long time in hospital I can tell you. Anyway, what happened is she gave an ultimatum cut out this and that’s that. So when she decided to, to get serious she, there was night when I couldn’t dance. I couldn’t dance and there was a night do on in the mess and what she did, what I did — at that time the air force didn’t know what to do with me and that’s when they gave me the job of teaching Morse code before they went overseas as a bomber station. So she had contact. So, what happened? So I was teaching all these pupils Morse and because I couldn’t dance and she liked dancing all the pupils that were doing this — they kept her dancing and I just looked on. I looked on.
DM: A good way to do it.
BR: A good way to do it.
DM: I’d better wind up here I think. Stop taking all your time and go back and see my wife.
SR: Now this is the whole point I wanted to tell you. Yes. In Siemens I had a problem which I pointed out to them what I had to do and I said, ‘You’re penalising me because I am doing what you want. And you want me to entertain people. Well that makes me fatter and you can’t have it both ways.’ So that’s when the [unclear ] started. ‘Shall we send you to Germany?’ Because to get to this stage now I was the Germans rank employees just the same as they do their military and the reason for this is they can militarise the population as quickly as possible. They can because their education. They can put just in the right spot. Now I’ll just show you something.
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AReidS170318
PReidS1701
Title
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Interview with Simson Reid
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Sound
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eng
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02:41:38 audio recording
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Pending review
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Donald McNaughton
Date
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2017-03-18
Description
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Simson Reid was born in Scotland and was able to have a flight with Alan Cobham’s Flying Circus which although short, fostered an interest in aviation. He volunteered for the Royal Air Force and was posted to flying Hampdens as an air gunner. As they were taking off from RAF Scampton his aircraft crashed and he suffered terrible burns and damage to his leg. He then spent three and a half years under the care of Rauceby Hospital.
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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Great Britain
Poland
Scotland
England--Lincolnshire
Poland--Gdańsk
Scotland--Scapa Flow
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Julie Williams
49 Squadron
aircrew
animal
Anson
crash
ground personnel
Hampden
medical officer
RAF hospital Rauceby
RAF Scampton
RAF West Freugh
take-off crash
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1550/28722/YJamesER[Ser -DoB]v1.pdf
3b4119258fda9405a724f010441e40b2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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James, Ernest Raymond
E R James
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-24
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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James, ER
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ernest Raymond James and contains his diary, decorations and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 576 and 582 Squadron Pathfinders.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Roy James and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[Front cover of notebook]
[page break]
[rubber stamp of retailer] Loxley Brothers Ltd.
A LANCASTER
[photograph missing]
Left to Right.
1 A Costling 2 P Raynor 3 JT Smith 4 J Brown 5 DN Reid 7 F Docker 6 R James.
Operations
The Gen Crew.
[Black and White photograph]
Smith
Wop RG Mog Pilot Set Op Eng. Nav.
Brown
[page break]
LEFT TO RIGHT.
Wop ALEX. R. Gun. Mid upp. J Smith. Pilot J Brown BA. D Reid Eng. R James Nav Dockar.
[page break]
MY PAL “BUTCH”
[picture of Air Chief Marshall Arthur Harris]
5
Elsham Wolds. 576 SQD
1st OPERATION
KEIL night
23 July 1944
In The Old J2
Medium to light flak.
Very few searchlights
never saw a fighter.
Quiet A nice trip took 5-30 hrs
Receiver in Wireless went u/s but okay after changing valve. Used emergency working.
No damage to aircraft at all.
Saw no kites Shot Down although a few were.
Good prang saw fires through thick clouds.
[page break]
10
576 Squ
2nd operation
Stuttgart
24 July 1944 Night
in J2
Concentrated heavy flak over the aiming point and along the bombing run
Very few searchlights
Bags of fighters one flew alongside of us. Bags of panic
No damage to the kite at all but quiet [sic] a few were shot down.
Not a bad trip but too many fighters knocking around and 9-15 hrs is too long for me to be in the air
A really good prang
[page break]
15
576 Sqd
3rd Operation
Stuttgart
28th July 1944 Night.
In J2.
More flak than last time and more fighters yes sir a lot more fighters
Few searchlights.
Bags of chop fighters escorted us over France right to target and back again and they were not ours
Last time we couldn’t have pranged it so good but this time I dont [sic] think we will have to go again for a bit.
Rear gunner shot a fighter rocket down.
67 Lancs were lost.
We got away without a scratch.
[page break]
18
576 Sqd.
4th Operation.
31 July 1944. Le Havre day.
In R2
1st Daylight raid.
Target port installations and U boat pens.
Bags of predicted flak.
Saw kite in front shot down in flames. That shook me.
No fighters
Afterwards learned that two destroyers were sunk in the harbour.
Actually saw bombs raining down on target.
We suffered no damage at all.
Starboard outer had to be feathered going out.
We were diverted to Lindholme because of bad weather
Trip lasted 4-30.
[page break]
21
5th Operation. 576 Sqd
3 Aug 1944 Trossy/St Maximin Day.
2nd Daylight Raid.
Flying bomb main depot.
Bags of predicted flak
Saw two kites shot down
No Fighters. Had spitfires escorting us.
Had good view of France
Went quite a way in just north of Paris actually.
B.A. Saw one kite knocked out of the air with some one elses bombs.
Not a very good prang.
It took 4-40 hrs.
Kit was R2.
[page break]
26
576 Sqd
6th Operation
Pauillac. Day.
4th August 1944. 3rd Daylight
Back again in J2
Target was an oil refinery. Escorted by Mosquitoes and Spitfires.
Real good trip and a real smashing prang smoke up to 10,000
Not one burst of flak and no fighters.
Saw huge flames after oil tanks had been hit.
Two tankers were hit.
Went out about 100 ft above the sea.
Altogether the best trip up to now although it took 8-15 hrs.
[page break]
32
576 Sqd
7th Operation
Blave Day
5 August 4 Daylight in J2
Target another oil refinery.
Escorted by spitfires and Mos
Quiet [sic] a decent trip similar to Pauillac just opposite side of river.
Just a bit of flak
One JU 88 got into stream but was last seen heading east with a few Mos on his tail.
Not quiet [sic] as good a prang as yesterdays but a nice trip
It took 8-25 hrs.
Diverted to Worksop.
[page break]
35
576 Sqd.
8th Operation.
Battle area (Nr Caen)
7th august 1944 Night attack.
Target. German defences holding up our troops.
Just light flak.
A few enemy night fighters.
Rear gunner saw one but it didnt [sic] see us. Thank the lord.
Very unsatisfactory raid
PFF ran out of target indictors.
We brought all our bombs back.
Trip took 4-10 hrs
Kite was J2.
PS. That was our last trip from 576 Sqd. and as PFF had boobed on the trip above we thought we would try our hand at it.
[page break]
40
[newspaper cutting]
Little Staughton PFF 582 Sqd.
Stettin. Night.
29th August 1944. 9th Operation.
Target was the Town & Docks
In another J.
To show there was no ill feeling we went right over Sweden and boy their lit up towns sure looked good. Their light flak look very pretty too.
Over Stettin there was one huge belt of searchlights and more flak than I have ever seen before
Quite a few fighters around but we weren’t attacked.
Actually we were the first kite over Stettin.
Not a bad trip but I think rather too long.
It took 9-20.
[page break]
45
1st Rhur Trip.
11-9-44. PFF 582 Sqd.
10th Operation. Day.
(Castrop Rauxiel)
In the Rhur. Five miles from Dortmund.
Synthetic Oil Plant.
Kite was E
First kite over target again and plenty of flak to welcome us. It was just like one solid wall. bits of flak hit various parts of kite including the starboard outer engine
No fighters were seen and only nine aircraft were lost. Every kite on our squadron had some damage due to flak.
Trip took 3¾ hours
Did two bombing runs as no Tis were down when we first arrived and that was no picnic
[page break]
50
13 Sept 1944. PFF Sqd 582
11th Operation.
Day. Target Osnabruck
Big railway junction.
Kite was E.
Slight flak
No fighters
Quite a good prang bags of black smoke looked as if some oil had been hit.
Cruised round target to watch the main force bomb. Saw the old cookies going down.
A real good trip
It lasted 4 hrs 5 mins.
Want rest of trips like this one
[page break]
55
[newspaper cutting]
PFF 582 Sqd.
12 th Operation.
15 Sept. Kiel Night.
Target was the town.
Medium flak
Few searchlights.
Night fighters just a few
Kite was O
First kite over target again
Saw Jerries spoof target indicators going down.
Quiet [sic] a decent prang bit that I saw of it.
The kite was in a terrible condition and I never expected it getting to Kiel never mind getting us back.
Trip lasted 5 hrs 35 mins. Similar to last Kiel raid.
First Electric storm we had experienced and it was quite interesting to watch.
[page break]
60
PFF 582 Sqd.
13th Operation
5 Oct. Saarbrucken .
Night.
Target was town which is a supply base for the Siegfreid [sic] line.
Medium flack
Plenty of fighters
As we were late we had to retain our flares.
Not a very eventful trip it lasted 5-10.
Seemed to be a very good prang bit what I saw of it.
Attacked by a JU88 but we evaded okay.
[page break]
65
2nd Rhur Trip
[newspaper cutting]
7 Oct. Saturday morning.
Just been out to the kite and up to now they have found 60 flak holes in her. The No 1 fuel tank (starb) had been holed and starb inner feathering pipe line almost in two
PFF Sqd 582
14th Operation.
6th Oct 1944 day.
Scholven (Rhur).
The most intense heavy predicted flak we have ever seen.
Every one of the engines hit. So many holes in kite that we couldn’t count them. Me and bomb aimer in the nose when nose was hit. Piece of flack hit him and went in his shoulder he is now in hospital. Gee what a feeling when that lump hit us.
We now have some respect for Jerries gunners.
No fighters
Trip lasted 3-45
[page break]
70
3rd Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd
15th Operation
12th Oct 1944. Day.
Wanneikel (Rhur.)
Worst trip we have had.
Not much flak but deadly accurate and we seemed to be the target all the time.
We were it on the way to the target but no extensive damage was done then we were hit on the bombing run. After bombing we were hit and the port inner started to smoke after it was feathered the starboard inner packed up and we found we couldn’t feather it.
The starboard outer had a bad oil leak and the temp went up to 130. With only two engines running we lost height down to 4500 and coming back away from the target they let us have it again this time hitting
[page break]
the oxygen supply lines.
We tried to get a landing field in Belgium and France but it was no good and we knew we should have to get it back to England. So we went south down France and across where the channel was the narrowest and obtained permission to land at Manston their emergency run way. With a deadly cross wind we got the undercart down with emergency air and managed to feather the starb inner engine. Then to finish things off in a fine style we found the starb wheel was flat. Well, on landing we swung over to starboard and ripped off one of the wheels. Then the kite caught fire and boy I reckon no one ever got out of a kite so quick as us. So after all the trouble we had, we had the pleasure of seeing the kite burn after one of the tanks had exploded and I guess that was the end of Apple.
But it was pretty hot and we didnt [sic] feel safe until we had two feet firmly on the floor.
Well thats [sic] the third time we have been shot up over the happy valley and believe me the Rhur is no picnic at night so in daylight as can be guessed it’s pretty grim.
Gee it was a close one.
[page break]
75
[aerial photograph]
Confirmed not only biggest RAF daylight raid but the heaviest raid ever on any target in the war (up to now). We dropped more than 4500 tons in 25 minutes.
BBC reporter gave very good description of the target as he saw it.
4th Rhur Trips.
16 Operation: PFF 582 Sqd.
Oct 14 1944. Day (Morning).
Bombed at 0907.
Duisburg. (Happy Valley).
Another Rhur trip but much more pleasant.
Flak didn’t hinder us at all got quite a real good bombing run and the target was well ablaze before I bombed.
Was the biggest show put on by Bomber Command in daylight over 1,000 bombers took part.
This was why the flak didn’t bother us very much.
No enemy fighters. We had 16 squadrons of fighters escorting us.
Very good trip it lasted 3 hrs 35 mins.
We carried incendries.
[page break]
80
5th Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
17th Operation.
Duisburg. Night.
Attacked at approx 0320 on morning of 15th Oct 1944.
Saw blaze from fires started in last raid about 100 miles from target and when we were coming back they were still visible 150 miles away.
The target was one huge blazing inferno but the flak was still rather active.
Saw no fighters
Didn’t’ fly with my crew I went with a crew whose engineer was on leave.
Not a bad trip picture of Lanc. dropping incenderies over Duisburg.
[page break]
85
18th Operation. PFF 582 Sqd
15 Oct. Night.
Wilhelmshaven.
Attacked at 1535 sat night. Naval base. Was the target.
Not a great deal of flak but it was pretty accurate.
Had to bomb on DR as we were first on and no Tis were down when we were there.
We were attacked by a fighter but rear gunner saw it coming in and we did evasive action and lost it.
Quite a good trip it lasted 4 hrs 10 mins
Kite was “B”eer
[page break]
16 Day Oct 1944.
Daily Express reporters impressions of the two Duisburg.
[newspaper cutting]
[page break]
90
6th Rhur Trip
PFF. 582 Sqd.
19th Operation
25 Oct. 1944. Daylight.
Target Homberg. Rhur.
(Opposite side of river to Duisburg)
Flak rather intense mainly from Duisburg.
No Fighters
Quite a sight to see all the bombers going out to Essen and to our target.
Couldn’t see results of the attack because of the thick cloud.
Saw one kite or what was left of it burning might have been a scare-crow.
Trip lasted approx 4 hrs
Kite was “E”asy.
[page break]
93
[aerial photograph]
PFF 582 Sqd.
20th Operation. 28 Oct 1944.
Walcheren.
Dutch Island.
Target Defence Positions.
No flak.
No fighters.
Bang on attack
bombed at 4,700
Perfect run in and got an aiming point.
Wouldn’t mind rest of trips like this one.
It only lasted about 2 hrs.
First time we have had icing as bad as this.
[page break]
98
PFF 582 Sqd.
Night
21st Operation. 30 Oct 1944.
Cologne.
Bags of predicted flak. Quiet [sic] a few fighters around
No searchlights.
Almost a full moon. 10 cloud. Bombed on Wanganowi [sic] flares.
Flak was shooting them out of the sky.
Hit in both starboard fuel tanks lost a lot of fuel. Both generators went for a burton and the 1196 us.
It lasted about. 4-40.
This is another trip I’ve done with another crew.
900 aircraft on.
[page break]
103
BBC reporter Richard Dimbleby flew with our squadron on the way back they were calling up George and asking if Richard was alright I didnt [sic] hear them call up and as if we were okay in L London though
PFF 582 Sqd.
22nd Operation. 31st Oct 1944.
Cologne.
Night.
Not very much flak. Bags of fighters and quite a lot were the new jet propulsion type
No searchlights.
full moon made almost like a daylight operation.
Were not hit at all by flak
Saw one kite shot down by flak over the target.
500 aircraft took part.
Went with same crew as last time.
[page break]
108
[indecipherable word] aiming point.
[newspaper cutting]
PFF 582 Sqd
23rd Operation 16 Nov 1944.
Target “Julich”.
Daylight.
Medium flak
No fighters seen
Had to feather port outer just out of target area. But not through enemy action. Made two runs over target.
Over 2,000 aircraft on these targets today. Most important raids since D day. Said this was the beginning of end of the Third Reich as the Americans were to advance across Rhine. These raids were prelude to the advance.
No flak damage this time again.
Trip lasted 4 hrs.
[page break]
113
[aerial photograph]
Caught a packet.
Saw no kites shot down but the bombing seemed rather haphazard.
Trip took 3 3/4 Hrs.
7th Rhur. PFF 582 Sqd.
24th Operation 18th Nov 1944
Target “Munster”.
Daylight.
No fighters.
Medium Flak.
Biggest daylight penetration by RAF Bomber Command and fighter opposition was expected but none were met.
Pretty accurate flak at points into the target but nothing to worry about. As we approached Munster we saw a bit of flak coming up and then it stopped all together
Had some trouble with Gee at take off and just before the target a hatch blew off and with the noise it made we thought we had
[page break]
118
8th Rhur trip PFF582 Sqd
25 th Operation. 21 Nov 1944.
Night
Target Castrop Rauxiel [sic]
Synthetic oil plant.
Medium flak.
Few fighters.
Bags of searchlights.
Got hit last time we went there but didn’t this time. Although the flak seemed pretty accurate.
The searchlights coned us once but we soon got away and I wasn’t sorry either.
We had no trouble with the fighters.
Not a bad trip saw bags of activity as we passed over the front line.
trip lasted 4 1/2 hrs approx.
[page break]
123
9th Ruhr Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
26 Operation. 27 November.
Target. Neuss.
Slight heavy flak.
No fighters.
Few searchlights.
No trouble at all on this trip one of the quietest trips we have had.
Saw bags of activity on the front line and they were firing at us with light flak but it caused us no trouble.
Trip lasted approx. 4 1/2 hrs.
[page break]
128
10th Rhur Trip
PFF582 Sqd.
27 Operation. 30 Nov.
Target. Duisburg.
Night.
Medium heavy flak
Very few searchlights.
No fighters.
a real good trip no trouble at all and it seemed quite a decent prang.
Use ground and sky markers but cloud hid ground Tis quite effectively.
Trip lasted 4 1/4 hrs.
[page break]
133
PFF 582 Sqd.
28 Operation. 3 Dec 1944.
Target. Heimbach.
Daylight.
Dam Busting.
Flak Nil.
Fighters Few. (ME 262)
Tactical Target.
Unable to bomb covered with cloud which was 1000 ft base so had to cancel raid. Brought all bombs back
Very disappointing raid
Raid lasted 4 1/2 hrs.
[page break]
138
PFF 582 Sqd.
29th Operation. 6th Dec 1944
Target: Leipzig.
Oil Refiner.
Bags of heavy flak.
Bags fighters.
No Searchlights.
Being the second largest oil refinery in Germany it was very well defended.
Were attacked by fighter. But we evaded them okay. Thanks to gunners spotting him.
Saw a target which was pranged earlier on by Bomber Command and boy was it blazing. This trip tired us out more than any. Maybe because we are used to the Rhur.
Trip lasted. 6 3/4 hrs.
[page break]
143
11 Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
30th Operation. 13 Dec 1944
Night.
Target Essen.
Rail Centre.
Very heavy heavy flak.
Lot of fighters.
No searchlights.
Not a bad trip but the flak was pretty heavy and very accurate
Quiet [sic] a few jet fighters knocking around but we wern’t [sic] attacked.
saw two kites shot down over target.
Trip lasted approx 4 hrs.
[page break]
148
[aerial photograph]
PFF 582Sqd.
31st Operation 15 Dec
Target. Ludwigshaven
Chemical Industry.
Slight heavy flak.
No fighters.
Lots of searchlights.
Feathered engine going to target after it had caught fire. That was after I had feathered the wrong one. I sure had my finger jammed then. Had a little difficulty on landing with choosing the grass to land on instead of the runway. Finger trouble again. Looked a real good prang.
Trip lasted approx 5 hrs.
[page break]
152
12th Rhur Trip.
152.
PFF 582 Sqd.
32nd Operation. 18 Dec.
Target
Duisburg.
Slight heavy flak.
Few fighters.
Few searchlights.
Flak did cause us to alter course coming out of the target but other than that it caused us no trouble at all.
One fighter crossed just above us from starboard to port but he didnt [sic] see us.
Coming out of the target we were attacked. Rear Gunner let him have it. but he didnt [sic] return our fire and we lost him. Not a bad trip.
It lasted 4 3/4 hrs.
[page break]
End of Tour.
No of trips 32
German 26
French 5
Dutch 1.
No of Daylights. 14
No of Nights 18
No of Rhur Trips 12
Total No of Points 152.
Pilot. JE Brown (three engine Brown they call me)
Navigator. F Dockar
Bomb Aimer. M Reid
Wireless Operator.
Mid Upper Gunner. J. D. Smith
Rear Gunner. [signature]
Engineer. [signature]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
ER James War Diary
Description
An account of the resource
A detailed diary of ER James' operations. On the first pages are a photograph of his crew and their names. Included with the text are several aerial photographs and newspaper cuttings.
Format
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38 page handwritten diary
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Diary
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Stuttgart
France--Le Havre
France--Creil
France--Paris
France--Blaye
France--Caen
Poland--Szczecin
Russia (Federation)--Kaliningrad (Kaliningradskai︠a︡ oblastʹ)
Germany--Castrop-Rauxel
Germany--Saarbrücken
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Netherlands--Walcheren
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Jülich
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Essen
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
France
Germany
Poland
Netherlands
Russia (Federation)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Identifier
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YJamesER[Ser#-DoB]v1
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Jan Waller
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
E R James
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-28
1944-07-31
1944-08-03
1944-08-04
1944-08-05
1944-08-07
1944-08-29
1944-09-11
1944-09-13
1944-09-15
1944-10-05
1944-10-06
1944-10-12
1944-10-14
1944-10-17
1944-10-15
1944-10-16
1944-10-25
1944-10-28
1944-10-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-16
1944-11-18
1944-11-21
1944-11-30
1944-12-03
1944-12-06
1944-12-13
1944-12-15
1944-12-18
576 Squadron
582 Squadron
aerial photograph
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bomb struck
bombing
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
flight engineer
forced landing
Halifax
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Ju 88
Lancaster
Me 262
Mosquito
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Pathfinders
pilot
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Lindholme
RAF Little Staughton
RAF Manston
RAF Worksop
Spitfire
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
target photograph
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1918/45591/MCrawfordJ416818-170808-11.2.pdf
21e349bda35334992b54472f39ed9541
Dublin Core
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Title
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Crawford, Jack 416818
John Crawford
J Crawford
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-08
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Crawford, J
Description
An account of the resource
18 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer John "Jack" Crawford (416818 Royal New Zealand Air Force) and contains his diaries, documents, correspondence and photographs. He flew operations as a wireless operator/ air gunner with 189 Squadron and was killed 4 March 1945. <br /><br />The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by john Herbert and catalogued by Lynn Corrigan.<br /><br /><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW220471175 BCX0">Additional information on John "Jack" Crawford</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW220471175 BCX0"> is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/105207/">IBCC Losses Database.</a></span>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
So short a time
Description
An account of the resource
Jack's wife recollecting meeting Jack, their marriage and her later life. She describes meeting with Jack's surviving crew members, pilot Tom Dykins, Sergeant Bert Price, Sergeant Doug Looms and Stan Jones, who had been held as prisoners of war after baling out. She explains the circumstances of the deaths of her husband, wireless operator and air gunner Warrant Officer John 'Jack' Crawford, rear gunner Flight Sergeant D F 'Red' Cook and navigator Flight Lieutenant Paul E Thompson who died in the operation.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
Creator
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Edna Ruth Crawford-Harris
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1974-06-11
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-03-03
1943-03-04
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--London
England--Oxfordshire
Germany
Germany--Hörstel
New Zealand
New Zealand--Hamilton
Canada
Alberta
Alberta--Calgary
Québec
Québec--Montréal
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
11 printed sheets
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Identifier
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MCrawford J416818-170808-11
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
final resting place
ground personnel
killed in action
Lancaster
love and romance
missing in action
navigator
Operational Training Unit
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Barford St John
wireless operator / air gunner
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1742/34417/NHowellJ170423-01.1.jpg
75ce69a769c81db2a21779dc3537980c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1742/34417/NHowellJ170423-02.1.jpg
41eaa05f7350212406c084e794cbadad
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Howell, Jack
J Howell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-23
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Howell, J
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. The collection concerns sergeant Sergeant Jack Howell (55260 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs ans newspaper clippings. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 144 Squadron and was killed 10 April 1941. <br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Jeff Howell and catalogued by Barry Hunter. <br /><br />Additional information on Jack Howell is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/111358/">IBCC Losses Database.</a>
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Faversham [indecipherable word] and East Kent Journal
21st NOVEMBER, 1941
[non-war unrelated articles and advertisements]
NOTABLE RECORDS OF FAMILY SERVICE
Four Sons and a Son-in-law
Mr. Frank Ward, of Water Lane, Ospringe, has four sons and a son-in-law serving in H.M. Forces. All are in the Army.
Eldest of the sons is William Ward (42) a Private in The Buffs, whose home is at 65 Upper Brents. He was serving in the last war in the King’s Royal Rifles and was in France for two years. Before joining up for the present war about two years ago he was working in Messrs. Burley’s brickfield at Sittingbourne.
Frederick Ward (37) is a Private in the Pioneer Corps in which he has been serving since last May. He is a single man and makes his home with his father. Before joining up he was working in Messrs. Cremer and Whiting’s brickfield.
Edgar Ward (36) is also a single man, residing with his father. He volunteered soon after the war broke out and is a Signaller, at present serving in the Middle East. He, too, was working in Messrs. Burley’s brickfield before he joined up.
The other son, Timothy Ward (30), is a regular soldier. He has been in the Army for nine years and is a Sergeant in The Buffs. For five years he was in India and in the early part of the present war he was in France. He is married and his home is at Canterbury.
The son-in-law is A. Robson, a Canterbury man, who was called up just recently.
Another son, Frank Ward, of 4 Flood Lane, is serving in the Home Guard.
–
Y.M.C.A. CENTRES
To the Editor [missing word] “News”
appeals now being made to the generosity of the people of Faversham, may I, as the mother of two daughters, address one on behalf of the Y.M.C.A., especially to the parents.
Many of the young women of Faversham have gone into the W.R.N.S., A.T.S., W.A.A.F., Land Army and Industrial work, and for their benefit the Y.M.C.A. provides in its Club Canteens places where friendly contact may be made with other young women, away from the atmosphere of barrack-dormitories or village billets.
Mrs. Churchill commends this appeal to you and uses these words:- “I know that after two years of war everyone is already working hard in their various spheres – but the need of the Y.M.C.A. is essentially one of the moment. It is not only the girls now being called up who ask for our help but their parents, who – seeing their daughters leave home for the first time – are anxious that they shall find the comfort and friendship of the Y.M.C.A. Centre in the unfamiliar lives on which they are entering. I feel confident that the “Men of Kent” and “Kentish Men” will be well to the fore in giving the fullest support to this appeal, which I commend to you all from the bottom of my heart.”
Donations – please make them generous! – should be sent to me at Newton House. All will be acknowledged.
P.K. JOHNSON,
Mayoress.
3, Briton Road,
Faversham.
–
(Continued from Column 2)
that occasion when he bales out, he landed in the middle of a wood at three o’clock in the morning.
Writing to his parents at the time he was reported missing an officer said: “A long series of flights had been carried out by your son with marked success and gallantry. This, in fact, was his 53rd raid and the pride which you must feel in him and what he has done is shared by us.”
–
Charles Lewis Dorman
In June last we recorded that Charles Lewis Dorman, of the Royal Navy, had been killed in action. He was then described as a 1st class Stoker. On Friday last, however, his wife (who is a daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Urbane Beach, of 5 Front Brents, Faversham) received the information that on April 24th. only about thr[missing letters] weeks before he was killed, he had been promoted to Acting Leading Stoker [missing letters]
–
[missing letters]LED BY ENEMY ACTION
[missing letters]mer Faversham Resident
During enemy action over south-east England on Tuesday, Mrs. Rosetta Castle, formally of Faversham, was killed, and [missing words] Mr. A.G. Castle was [missing words] injured.
Mr. Castle [missing words] many years with the firm of Messrs. Henry S. Tett and Co., Faversham [missing words] years he had been [missing words] house.
Mrs. Castle [missing words] daughter of the late Mr. and [missing word] William Broad, of the Bull Inn, [missing word], and a sister of Mrs. H. Chittenden, of Faversham.
–
SERVING THEIR KING AND COUNTRY
DOWNS, Terry Alfred, 2nd Engineer H.M.S. Dominence (M.V.) (79 Upper Brents).
DOWNS, Ronald Arthur, Ordinary Seaman, H.M.S. Glendower (79 Upper Brents).
MARSH, Monica Rosa, A.C.W./2. W.A.A.F. (28 Forbes Road).
PARNELL, P.E., A.C.W./2, W.A.A.F. (23 Willlow [sic] Avenue, Lower Road).
SMITH, Percy, Fitter, R.A.O.C. (35 Stone Street).
–
[boxed] News
YOUNG AIRMAN’S DEATH
STORY OF HOW HE WON D.F.M.
ALLEGED ASSAULT IN POULTRY MARKET
LOCAL POPPY DAY RESULTS
EX-POLICE OFFICER’S WEDDING
KILLED BY ENEMY ACTION
DEATH OF RESIDENTS
FAVERSHAM YOUTH’S THEFTS
ANOTHER FAMILY SERVICE RECORD
THE TOWNSWOMEN’S GUILD
COUNCIL WORKERS’ WAGES [/boxed]
–
GALLANT YOUNG FAVERSHAM AIRMAN
STORY OF HOW SERGT. JACK HOWELL GAINED THE D.F.M.
SERGT. JACK HOWELL, D.F.M., the gallant young Faversham Airman, who some months ago was reported missing, is now, alas, reported killed.
Only a few days before he met his death he had been decorated by the King with the Distinguished Flying Medal. The story of the circumstances in which he gained that award reveals the resource, the courage and the bravery of our lads of the air and excites our pride in them.
Sergt. Howell was the son of Mr. Albert Howell (who is himself now serving in the Air Force as a Sergt. Instructor) and Mrs. Howell, of 70 Abbey Street. He was only 19 and was one of the youngest airmen to gain the D.F.M.
[photograph]
It was in the middle of April last that news was received that he had been posted as missing since the 10th of that month.
His parents have now had a notification from the Air Ministry that Sergt. Howell "was killed in action when engaged in air operations over enemy country."
They have also received the following letter from H.M. the King: "The Queen and I offer you our heartfelt sympathy in your great sorrow. We pray that your country's gratitude for a life so nobly given in its service may bring you some measure of consolation."
This young man made no boast of his achievement in gaining a decoration, indeed he had not even told his parents, who first learned of it through the Press!
And it was only just recently that his father saw the official record of the award. In few words it tells a stirring story and recalls how, when it became to baling out, Sergt. Howell succeeded in getting an unconscious comrade out of the plane.
Here is the official record:-
February, 1941. While returning from operations over the enemy countries, the aircraft in which Sergt. Howell was wireless operator and air-gunner was badly damaged from A.A. fire, the starboard engine being put out of action and the aerial masts shot away. Later, while crossing the North Sea, the observer collapsed and it was found he was badly wounded in the chest. As the aircraft was losing height the pilot gave orders to throw all heavy equipment overboard. Sergt. Howell fixed up an improvised trailing aerial and was successful in getting contact with a coastal station which guided them back by keeping close contact. Shortly after reaching the coast of England the port engine caught fire and failed. The order came quickly for the crew to bale out. Sergt. Howell, dragging with him the unconscious observer, baled out and was successful in pulling the observer's rip-cord before releasing his own. To use the words of his pilot (stated in his report) Sergt. Howell's coolness, courage and devotion in the face of grave danger was an example of heroism and comradeship."
Sergt. Jack Howell was educated at Faversham District Schools and afterwards went into the grocery trade as an assistant. But it had been his ambition to be an airman and in 1938 he joined the Royal Air Force.
As already indicated, he was a very unassuming lad. When he was last home on leave – only a few weeks before he met his death – it was noticed that he was wearing the gold caterpillar, a badge presented to airmen who are forced to bale out from their planes while on duty. He had said nothing about it, but it was gathered that on
(Continued at foot of column 5)
–
Mr. THERM ON ACTIVE SERVICE
FUELLING OUR PLANES . . .
[photograph]
AS BRITAIN’S FIGHTER PLANES streak across the sky at 300 and 400 miles an hour, a gas by-product is helping them to attain these high speeds. Benzole – distilled at the gas works – is the “anti-knock” component of thousands of gallons of high-performance aviation fuel.
FAVERSHAM GAS COMPANY
88-90 WEST STREET FAVERSHAM
“THE BLUE OF HEAVEN IS LARGER THAN THE CLOUD”
[page break]
Two FAVERSHAM [missing words] JOURNAL Friday, November 21st, 1941
[non-war unrelated articles and advertisement]
REMEMBRANCE AT THE BRENTS
British Legion and Home Guard Attend Service
Members of the Faversham Branch of the British Legion and the Women’s Section paid their annual visit to The Brents Church for a service of remembrance last Sunday afternoon. this year a considerable contingent of members of the Home Guard also attended. Among the British Legion representatives were the Mayor, Councillor Phil Johnson (Chairman of the Branch), Coun. C.E. Ely (one of the Vice-presidents) and Mrs. Cooper (Chairman of the Women’s Section).
The service was conducted by the Vicar, Rev. J.A. Osbourne, the lessens being read by the Mayor.
Before proceeding with his address the Vicar welcomed the Mayor and expressed appreciation of his visit again, also of the fact that he had taken on his important office for the fifth year in these strenuous times when there was a state of continual emergency.
He welcome [sic] also the British Legion, an organisation which for many years had been caring for those who fell by the way in the last war and was now taking up the additional task of helping those in trouble through the present war, and was exhibiting that social spirit which was so valuable in a time like this. Good work had indeed been done, and was being done by the local branch of the Legion. He had had experience (said the Vicar) of two or three branches and he could in all sincerity compliment the Faversham Branch on being the best among them.
He welcomed, too, the members of the Home Guard. It was the first time they had attended this church and he was pleased indeed to see them and hoped it might not be the last occasion. They represented a new and vigorous force of free men who had taken on the job of helping the country in its hour of need and had put themselves in a position to defend the hearths and homes of England. They were the symbol of the free men of England in this critical hour.
The Christian Religion And The War
Speaking of the connection between the Christian religion and the war, the Vicar said it might be asked what connection there could possibly be between the figure of Christ and all the horrors of this ghastly business of war. By way of answer he [missing word] General Smuts – one of the most [missing word] [missing letters]arkable statement of our time [missing words] said: “We are fighting for [missing word] compared with which the betterment of our earthly lot means nothing. I look upon this war as one of the great religious wars of the world; it is once more the historic fight which has had to be fought out from age to age – the fight between light and darkness.” And another great statement, President Roosevelt, in his appeal to his people, based that appeal upon the Christian claims and interests of humanity in this world.
The preacher referred also to two other outstanding figures, namely the Emperor of Ethiopia, who, it was reported, marked his return to his country and people by the holding of a Christian service, and Chiang-Kai-Shek, the leader of China, who in his long struggle was holding on to the truths of the Christian faith.
Later he said we were determined that the world which God had given to us should not be turned into a great concentration camp, but that human personality was preserved – in the Lord. He stressed those last words, remarking that we could not and would not succeed if we relied upon our own strength.
The service concluded with the recital by the Mayor of the British Legion’s act of remembrance, the Last Post and Reveille and the singing of “O Valiant Hearts” and the National Anthem.
The collection was for Mrs. Churchill’s fund for Red Cross aid to Russia.
–
[unrelated article and photograph]
–
THE BRITISH LEGION
Armistice Night Supper
The Faversham of the British Legion held its usual Armistice Night supper on Tuesday, November 11th. at the Recreation Club, and was well supported. They had as guests a number of soldiers stationed in the district, including their Commanding Officer.
In welcoming the guests, His Worship the Mayor, who is also Chairman of the Branch, stated that the Branch affairs were really being carried on by a few loyal members some of whom had been on the Committee practically since its inception. It was their desire to hand over at the end of this war to the younger ex-service men a flourishing organisation in good financial condition, when the ex-service men of the last war could take a well-earned rest.
Replying on behalf of the military to a toast to the Forces, the Officer present stressed the importance of not making the mistakes that were made after the last war. This country, he remarked should not disarm again until all other nations had done so. The only guarantee of world peace was a strong British Empire.
Home Guard Recruiting
Mayor E.H. Wix, speaking for the Home Guard, pointed out the seriousness of the threat of invasion, which must still be expected. The terrible treatment meted out by the Huns to womenfolk in the conquered countries could certainly be expected here if they got control of any part of this country. If invasion came the main job would be to kill Huns and this must be left to the armed forces, i.e. the Regular Army and the Home Guard. He was perturbed at the thinning of the Home Guard ranks as the younger men were called to the Colours. There was far too much complacency about, possibly due to the recent immunity from heavy bombing and the gallant resistance of our Russian Allies. He made a strong appeal to all ex-service men to do their utmost to get recruits for the Home Guard.
Capt. R.A. Darney in proposing the toast of the Chairman pointed out that this Branch was very fortunate in having as Chairman a man who was also Chief Magistrate of [missing word] town.
Colonel Hooper, [missing letters]wledging a toast to himself, [missing words] reminiscences of service [missing words] back one and said that in [missing words] [missing letters]anaged, since wondered how they [missing words] wireless, [missing words] been a real Gentleman’s War!
The musical part of the proceedings comprised piano-accordeon [sic] solos by Miss Fettes, a humourous monologue by the Mayor, songs by Mr. A.J. Hurn and community singing by the whole company. Mr. Jack Knowler was at the piano.
–
ENGLISH SAGA
By DOROTHY DEVEREUX
(née Dorothy Keech)
These were the best of us,
These were the ones who died for England’s sake,
For love and honour – thus they sped with glorious feet out into war.
To have, to give, we take
And, worshipping, adore.
These were the rising youth,
These were the ones who grew in England’s soil.
Who scorned to slight the truth,
To fill the world with babbling tales of wrong.
They had no heart to spoil
The beauty of life’s song.
These are the changeless ones,
These are our past, our future and our all –
Our fathers, brothers, sons –
They fell beside us, even as we fell.
But England will not fall
And she will live to tell.
–
German Gun Scrapped
New Romney Town Council have decided not to dispose of two 17th Century guns but a German machine gun received after the 1914-18 war is to go for scrap.
[advertisements]
KEEP TAPPING THE V . . . – THE SIGN OF THE FREE.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Gallant Young Faversham Airman
Description
An account of the resource
A newspaper cutting with a description of how Jack was awarded a DFM. This was awarded because he assisted an unconscious colleague to bale out of their damaged aircraft.
Creator
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Faversham News
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-11-21
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Faversham
England--Kent
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Format
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One double sided newspaper cutting
Identifier
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NHowellJ170423-01, NHowellJ170423-02
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-02
1941-04-10
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Steve Baldwin
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
Distinguished Flying Medal
killed in action
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1824/41972/NLuxtonJR170404.2.jpg
884ef9c0b9accc186eda2602a3fab551
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Luxton, J R
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Luxton, JR
Description
An account of the resource
Eighteen items. <br /><br />The collection concerns Sergeant John Russell Luxton (1086977 Royal Air Force) and contains documents, correspondence and photographs. He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 76 Squadron. He was killed 12 August 1943. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Wohlers and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.<br /><br /><span data-contrast="none" xml:lang="EN-GB" lang="EN-GB" class="TextRun SCXW118500121 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW118500121 BCX0">Additional information on John Russell Luxton</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW118500121 BCX0"> is available via the</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW118500121 BCX0" data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":0,"335559740":276}"> <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/217298/">IBCC Losses Database.</a></span>
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Title
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Newspaper cutting with article about Sergeant J R Luxton missing
Description
An account of the resource
Page has several articles including one reporting Sergeant J R Luxton missing after operational flight. Describes telegram to father informing him that his wireless operator/air gunner son was missing on his 15th operational flight. Gives some biographical details.
Creator
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Fleetwood Chronical
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-08-19
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lancashire
England--Fleetwood
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Format
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One newspaper cutting
Identifier
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NLuxtonJR170404
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-08-20
aircrew
missing in action
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2047/33328/ABiltonGHA960623-0001.1.pdf
68edbe099b5e26f2922404b2fb056c11
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2047/33328/ABiltonGHA960623.1.mp3
3f3f5cac621761fcd3088cee74a5d0fd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bilton, George Henry Albert
G H A Bilton
Description
An account of the resource
Nineteen items. The collection concerns George Henry Albert Bilton (b. 1923, 175723 Royal Air Force) and contains an oral history interview, his log book, correspondence and photographs. He flew operations as a flight engineer with 428 and 434 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Anthony Bilton and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-09-14
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Bilton, GHA
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[Music]
I: Were you born in Hull?
GB: Well, outside of Hull at Anlaby.
I: Which year were you born?
GB: 1923. October.
I: And what did your father do for a living?
GB: He was a coach builder for, well it’s now British Railway but first of all Hull and Barnsley. Then it was taken over by the London Northeastern and he built the coaches and the waggons. He was with them all his life.
I: Did you go to school in Anlaby?
GB: Anlaby Church of England School. And then the last two years I was at Hessle School when they closed the Church of England one down. I left school 1938.
I: So you were fourteen.
GB: Fourteen. Yeah.
I: Did you get a job?
GB: Yes. I went and got a job as an apprentice furniture salesman.
I: In Hull.
GB: In Hull. At Harry Jacobs Furniture.
I: Were you doing that when war broke out?
GB: Oh, I was still with them when war broke out. I was with them until I went into the Forces in 1942.
I: What was your reaction when you heard Chamberlain make the declaration that we were at war with Germany?
GB: Well, I think it was a bit too young and didn’t know anything about it but I volunteered for an ARP messenger boy and I was accepted and that kept us busy on a night time. Even with practices.
I: Where did you volunteer for it?
GB: Anlaby House which became the Central Headquarters for the ARP in Haltemprice. It is now the headquarters of Beverley Borough Council. The same house.
I: What kind of work did you have to do as an ARP messenger boy?
GB: Well, if any of the telephone lines were broken in a raid we had to go out and take messages from one post to another.
I: By foot?
GB: No. On our bikes.
I: Did you have a uniform?
GB: No. Just a steel helmet and an extra special gas mask. That’s all.
I: What was extra special about it?
GB: Well, it was more like the Services one. Not like the ordinary civilian gas mask.
I: What was the difference between the two?
GB: Well, it was heavier and, well and you just, you didn’t have the mask at the face. You had a small canister at the side.
I: So you didn’t have the protuberance.
GB: No. That’s right.
I: Did you have an arm band to show who you were?
GB: Yes. ARP messenger, that was all and the steel helmet with M on.
I: What did M mean? For messenger.
GB: For messenger.
I: Did you get paid for it?
GB: No. It was all voluntary. No. Nothing at all. You, you, when the sirens went you reported to Anlaby House and you stayed there until the siren all clear and then you went back home.
I: Whereabouts did you do this work?
GB: In Anlaby. The farthest we ever had to bring a message was from Anlaby to Cottingham when the lines were down.
I: Did you enjoy doing it?
GB: Oh yes. I did.
I: Could you have thrown it up any time you liked?
GB: Any time you wanted you could decide to finish and that was it.
I: Was there competition to get these jobs?
GB: Well, there was about four of us and that’s all they needed. They all went in the Forces and of the four there was one killed.
I: How did that happen?
[pause]
GB: It was a lad called John Harding. He was killed in Italy about a month after the war. He went all through the desert, all through Italy and he was killed about a month after the war moving shells from the artillery.
I: Were there any incidents that happened to you after you had done the messenger work?
GB: Not really.
I: That you can recount.
GB: No, there was, it was very very quiet in the area of Haltemprice. All the damage that was done was done in Hull. I think we had what five bombs dropped in the village of Anlaby and they were unexploded.
I: Whereabouts did they drop?
GB: At the, two or three hundred yards from Anlaby House down Woodlands Drive in a snicket.
I: A snicket being a cut through.
GB: A cut through. Yes. They did no damage. The Army came, found them and exploded them.
I: Was anybody injured?
GB: No. There was no injuries whatsoever.
I: When did the bombs drop on Anlaby? Which year would that have been?
GB: That was in the big raid of 1940. May the 8th 1941.
I: ’41. Any others that you remember that dropped in Anlaby?
GB: None at all. There was only the five.
I: Did you ever see the damage in Hull?
GB: Yes. I used to work in Hull. The place where I was employed in Jameson Street was completely gutted during the 1941 raid.
I: What was the name again?
GB: Harry Jacobs Furniture, Jameson Street.
I: What else did you see of the damage in Hull?
GB: All of Jameson Street were moved. Our offices were down Osbourne Street and that was severely damaged. You could see all of Paragon Square which was Hammonds at the time was gutted. There was a terrific amount of damage done and especially in the Stoneferry District where the oil mills were and the flour mills around it.
I: Did people come out of Hull to Anlaby to get away from the bombing?
GB: Yes, they did. They built a camp down Lowfield Road in Anlaby for displaced personnel from the raids and there was one built on Priory Road just outside Cottingham which was taken up by people who had been bombed out. Those two camps after the war housed the young couples who got married and they had no housing. When I got married in ’51 I finished up in one of those converted accommodations for a year before I got a house.
I: What were they like?
GB: Alright.
I: Just describe them.
GB: Well, they were two little bedroom. You had a small bedroom, small living room and there was a small like kitchen for cooking and doing your washing. In Priory Road where the camp is we spent a year in there didn’t we before we came to Cottingham. There were no housing at all and they were in use for about ten years before they were finally closed down.
I: What was the standard of accommodation like?
GB: Poor. Single bricks. Very damp. Corrugated roof.
I: Wasn’t it later used to house Poles?
GB: That’s correct. Yes.
I: Now, can you tell me how you came to be in the Air Force?
GB: I volunteered for air crew in, when I was eighteen in what we called a Selection Board. And I was accepted as a wireless operator air gunner.
I: When you, which year would this have been?
GB: That was 1941. I was eighteen in October ‘41 and I volunteered then and went down for an interview at Padgate. I went through the examinations. Then my medical and then the Aircrew Selection Board and I was accepted for training as a w/op a g.
I: Why did you volunteer for it?
GB: I was, I should have made a very very poor sailor and my father always said, ‘Don’t go in the Army.’ He’d had enough.
I: So you wanted to exercise a choice before you were directed.
GB: Before I was directed.
I: But you were. Did you become a w/op air gunner?
GB: No. There was, they had a tremendous influx of people wanting to be w/op a g’s and I think I’d been waiting about four months to go in and they were short of flight engineers for training so they asked me if I would like to take a test board and become a flight engineer for training. And I accepted that instead of waiting. So I was called up in August ’42. Went to Blackpool. Did my initial training footslogging and I stayed in Blackpool then for about ten months doing a flight mechanic and a fitter’s course. Passed out AC1 flight mechanic and AC1 fitter and I went down to St Athans for six weeks to do the Halifax course and I waited then in August ’43 and I was posted from St Athans up to Number 6 Group, a Heavy Conversion Unit 1664 which was then at Croft and I crewed up with a Canadian and English mixed crew on August 1943.
I: In that training did you run into any problems?
GB: None at all. The only time I got jankers was for failing to carry a bayonet whilst on duty [laughs] and I got seven days CB for it and I swore never again to do any punishment.
I: What happened to you on the CB?
GB: CB? Well, you reported at 6 o’clock after you’d done all your schoolwork for three hours of square bashing. Fifty five minutes square bashing, five minutes off with full kit. Saturday you scrubbed the NAAFI out at Squire’s Gate and it was a huge one. Sunday you reported after Church Parade on the hour every hour until 10 o’clock at night. That was enough. No more. So I kept my shoes clean after that.
I: Did you resent the punishment?
GB: Not really. It taught you to behave yourself.
I: What did you think of the quality of training that you got?
GB: Very good. The instructors were very good. I had no complaints whatsoever against any of the instructors. They were always fair and they helped you whenever. All the way through the course.
I: Were you taught what you had to know or did they miss any?
GB: Well, I think the original entries for flight engineers were given far too much training on engines. You didn’t have to become a fitter to become a flight engineer as they found out later. They shortened the course to about a twelve week course where it took me nearly a year. You didn’t have to be a qualified flight fitter engine to become a flight engineer.
I: What did a flight engineer have to do in a bomber?
GB: Look after chiefly the control of the engines, the petrol consumption, know the hydraulic systems and all the emergencies. Assist in take-off and landing.
I: If the pilot had been hit would you have been able to pilot it?
GB: It would have been a struggle. As a Halifax flight engineer you didn’t have any pilot training. You were never on the controls whereas in a Lancaster you were. You acted as a second pilot for take-off and landing but on a Halifax bomber the bomb aimer assisted in take-off and landing.
I: Now, you said that you were posted to 6 Group. Can you tell me about what 6 Group was?
GB: 6 Group was the Halifax group financed by the Royal Canadian Government. They provided all the aircraft and the crews were mixed. I had three English and four Canadians in the crew. The pilot was, pilot, navigator and the two gunners Canadians. The wireless operator, the bomb aimer and myself were the English members of the crew.
I: How was the crew formed?
GB: Well, I met the crew. They’d done their Operational Training Unit course and they were posted up to Croft and ten crews and ten flight engineers were told, ‘Sort yourselves out.’ And they picked me and I accepted them and I went with them. You weren’t allocated. You weren’t told, ‘You fly with that man.’ Or, ‘You fly with them.’ You were left to individually sort yourself out which crew you wanted to go with. So if you met a sergeant in the mess, you know you knew him and you had a drink or two before you crewed up you went to him.
I: How did you like serving with Canadians?
GB: Oh, they were very good. Very friendly. They didn’t have the bull. The discipline wasn’t as severe on the Canadian group as it was on the English groups.
I: Can you give an example?
GB: Well, I mean you mixed freely with the, when I was an NCO you mixed freely with the two officers. The Canadian officers. No trouble at all calling you by your Christian names.
I: Now, what was your first operational squadron?
GB: My first operational squadron? Well. I lost my first pilot. We went to 427 squadron and Sergeant Dresser went on his second second dickie trip and never came back.
I: 427 was your first.
GB: First squadron at Leeming. So we were a crew without a captain.
I: When did you join that squadron do you think?
GB: We joined 427 Squadron 4th of September and we left on the 23rd of September. We were posted back to 1659 Conversion Unit Topcliffe where there was another pilot waiting for us.
I: So did you do any operations —
GB: None at all.
I: At that base?
GB: No. None whatsoever there. As I say the pilot never came back from his second, second dickie to Frankfurt.
I: So you were posted to a new squadron.
GB: No. A new Conversion Unit for a new pilot. A new pilot by the name of Watkins, a flying officer who had been instructing in Canada for nearly two years. He’d been, come over and we crewed up with him on the 24th of September with Flying Officer Watkins at 1659 Conversion Unit Topcliffe and we went through our month training with him again until the 7th of October ’43 where we were posted to 428 Squadron, Middleton St George.
I: And it was then you started operations.
GB: Operations. Yes. The first operation we did was the 3rd of November.
I: Can you describe what you remember of it?
GB: Very very little. It was Dusseldorf and everything seemed to be on top of you at the first you know. You didn’t take it all in. All I seem to remember is a little bit of flak and the flares going down for target indicators for bombing. Everything happened so fast on your first two or three trips that you hadn’t adjusted to operational flying. I learned more on my second op. We went to Ludwigshafen on the 18th of November.
I: What happened then?
GB: Well, first of all we got coned over the target. We got the master searchlight on us which was a bluey colour and he followed us and we got out of him after a lot of evasive action and as soon as we got out a fighter opened up on us and we got a good hiding. The rear gunner was severely wounded. The IFF that we had was damaged. Monica, which we had was damaged. All the trimming wires for elevator and rudders were cut. We had petrol tank wires cut from one, two and four tanks. All hydraulic pipes were cut. We couldn’t close the bomb doors. They were fully opened. We were in a mess and we got hit about twenty one thousand feet and by the time the pilot got control we were down to fifteen thousand. We had no navigational aids and the navigator brought us back by straight navigation of the Pole Star. We were off track coming back when we crossed over Ostend at fifteen thousand feet and they hit us with everything.
I: They what?
GB: Hit us with everything. They opened up with everything they had and we couldn’t take any evasive action. We just had to go through it.
I: This was the flak.
GB: Yeah. There was flaming onions coming up in between the tail plane and the main plane. It was rough. And then we crossed the coast and we still didn’t know exactly where we were so the skipper called up. The emergency call sign then was Darkie and Woodbridge accepted the call and we did a full emergency landing there.
I: What was the emergency landing like?
GB: It was very rough. We couldn’t get the undercarriage, it came down but I couldn’t lock it down. We tried everything. Put in to a shallow dive, pulling out to see if we could just pulling into a shallow dive, pulling out to see if we could just jerk it that two or three inches to make it lock and we couldn’t do that. We were all in the emergency positions coming in to land and just as they pulled up to do a belly landing it just threw it that little bit forward, the wheels, and they locked. So we were alright. We came out. The rear gunner we, we’d patched him up. We’d pumped morphine into him and he went to Norwich Hospital. We never saw him again. He was very badly wounded in the head. And we spent the night there and then an aircraft flew us back the next morning to our base at Middleton St George.
I: What was the date of that?
GB: 18th of November.
I: And which Halifax was it? What was it called?
GB: NA O-Oboe. We were just off on a night operation at 16.45 on a trip which lasted seven hours and five minutes.
I: Did that put you off wanting to go on operations after that experience?
GB: Not really. We were in operations again on the 26th of November. We took two spare gunners and we went to Stuttgart and we had a reasonable trip. We had no fighter trouble but when we went to a diversionary raid being done on Frankfurt and the Germans had laid what they called you know the fighter flares, the path the Mosquitoes were taking oh and it looked rough. We bypassed it and Stuttgart was quite you know quite a normal trip. A bit of flak. No fighters. But I think that got the confidence of the crew back.
I: When you went on these trips to Stuttgart and Ludwigshafen could you see other planes being hit?
GB: Not on those two. No. I never saw anything anyone shot down over Ludwigshafen, Stuttgart or the first trip Dusseldorf.
I: How did your next operations go?
GB: Well, the next operation was January the 20th 1944, Berlin and that was a rough one.
I: Can you describe it?
GB: Well, at one part the Germans had laid a flare path for fighter flares and they were among the bomber stream and we were going down. You could see the fire from the German aircraft and a small amount coming from our aircraft. The Allied aircraft and then you’d just see a ball of fire and it would hold steady for a minute or two then it would just go in to a dive. That was quite an experience to see it. When we got to Berlin we were in the first wave and the target indicators were a few seconds late and we got caught in predictive flak because we were the first wave. We had no cover from the metal strips. The tin foil that we threw out. It didn’t affect, it didn’t help you it helped the people behind you and we were a little bit off. [pause]
I: Which was the worse? This Berlin one or the Ludwigshafen?
GB: Ludwigshaven. Ludwigshaven was the worst. I mean we got a lot of shell, a lot of holes, a lot of damage. This Berlin it was just that you were in the predicted flak. We didn’t get hit. We didn’t have any fighter trouble. Berlin, Ludwigshafen I’ll never forget it. Never.
I: Was Berlin a particularly dreaded place to go to?
GB: It was, yes. It was such a long, it was such a long stooge. It took us eight hours fifteen minutes. It was very tiring and it was overpowering on the target area because it was so heavily defended. There were so many searchlights. I think on the first one we lost about forty odd aircraft that night.
I: You said which particular Halifax you had. Did you always have the same one?
GB: No. That was Halifax NA U-Uncle on that Berlin trip.
I: Was there any competition to get the best aircraft?
GB: No. It was just what you were allocated. Our pilot later became a flight commander and he took any aircraft. I mean I think we were nearly always in a B flight when we flew aircraft.
I: What does that mean?
GB: Well, you had A flights and B flights.
I: As part of the squadron. To make up the squadron.
GB: The mark up the squadron. Yes. And the A flights were the first half of the alphabet and so the second B was the second half. We were either V-Victor, Q-Queenie, or O-Oboe later on that we flew in.
I: But was there any, ever any feeling that the more senior people were getting the best aircraft?
GB: No. No.
I: Or the best ground crews?
GB: No. The best ground crews were on operational squadrons. I thought so anyhow.
I: But was there any difference between the different ground crews that you had in your squadron?
GB: No. They were all first class. They all did a first-class job. The aircraft were always in good condition. We never turned back from thirty four trips from any trouble whatsoever.
I: What was the next operations that you had to do?
GB: Well, the next two I did were two mine laying stooges. One was to Kiel which was a quiet trip and the other one was down to la Rochelle which was a very long stooge. Eight hours ten minutes. That was the fourth of February ’44. Then we went to Berlin again on the 15th of February.
I: Was mine laying usually a quiet job?
GB: Yes. Well, it was a very hard job because you were by yourself. There would probably be about twenty aircraft you know to lay mines and you were on your own. You had no cover whatsoever. I mean the tin foil that you threw out didn’t help you. It more or less showed the Germans where you were because you were always ahead of the tin foil you were throwing out. There would be about twenty. Probably twenty two twenty three aircraft would go down to La Rochelle and lay two mines a piece. In between the island of la Rochelle and the mainland.
I: Did you ever call those gardening operations?
GB: They are gardening operations. I did the La Rochelle. I did two La Rochelles in February. One on the 4th and one on the 21st and then on the 25th I did a mine laying stooge to Copenhagen Sound.
I: Well, what was your next Berlin operation like? Was it any different from the first?
GB: It was the same as the first. A lot of flak. A lot of fighter activity but we never had an attack. That day, night we were diverted to Shipdham which was an American base and we were there for three days for bad weather. Our base was closed down and we stayed with the Americans. Had their hospitality.
I: What was the date of your second Berlin raid?
GB: 15th of February. We took off in NA Q-Queenie. We took off at 17.20. We were airborne for six hours fifty minutes.
I: What did you fear most over Berlin? Was it the night fighters or the flak?
GB: The night fighters. The flak no. It was the fighters. We were always looking out for fighters. You didn’t want, you didn’t want to battle with them you wanted to get out of their way because the armaments that we had was four 303s were just like peashooters to their cannons if you could see them and get out of their way. That was the main thing.
I: And then after Berlin? That second Berlin operation.
GB: After Berlin we did as I say two mine laying stooges to la Rochelle and Copenhagen Sound in February. Then March we started with another gardening operation mine laying to the mouth of the Gironde River which was seven hours fifty minutes. Then we started the pre-D-Day marshalling yards in the March of ’44 and it was the marshalling yard at Trappes. Now that one we had an absolute full bomb load, I’ll never forget it of eleven thousand five hundred pounders. We had eleven thousand five hundred and fourteen hundred gallons of petrol and it was made up of seven five hundred pounders and six one thousand pounders. That was the heaviest bomb load we’d ever taken and after the operation the marshalling yard at Trappes was never used again. It was, it was quite an easy trip. There was very very little flak. It was very light. No fighter trouble. We came, we did five hours forty minutes and there was bad weather at the aerodrome and we were diverted to Harwell. And we spent the night at Harwell and we left the next day back to base.
I: Now here you’ve given me a sheet headed “Target Token” relating to this Trappes raid on the 6th of March 1944. Can you tell me what this sheet signifies?
GB: Well, that is the marshalling yards there. Those are early flares, the photograph flares that we dropped to illuminate the target so we could take the photograph. Well, from that they could photograph from the headings that we were on. They could tell you exactly where those bombs straddled the target and the whole load went right across the marshalling yards.
I: So you’ve got the copy of the photograph.
GB: Of the photograph. Every crew member was presented with a copy of the photograph.
I: As a means of congratulating.
GB: Congratulating. More or less that you’d got the whole fifteen bombs right across the marshalling yard.
I: Any other marshalling yard operations that you did?
GB: Well, I know the next one we went to was, the next operation I did was another gardening trip to Kiel. We did the mining to the entrance to Kiel harbour. The next one was on the 25th of March. We went to Aulnoye. That was quite an easy trip. A marshalling yard. No trouble. Then on April our skipper had been promoted to squadron leader and we were posted 434 Squadron where he became B Flight commander.
I: Where was 434 Squadron?
GB: At Croft. It was a satellite aerodrome of Middleton St George. It was one that was built during the wartime use whereas Middleton St George was a peacetime aerodrome. The next marshalling yard we went to was Lisle. That was a quiet trip. That was on the 9th of April. We went on the 26th of April to Villeneuve St Georges. A French target. On the 29th we had a short gardening trip to the Frisian Islands. The mines we were laying were supposed to be for a convoy that was coming through. We laid the mines and the convoy was coming through. There was quite a bit of flak from the flak ships. That was then —
I: Were you hit?
GB: No. It was, we had no trouble. We seemed to be lucky again. There was a lot of flak from the flak ships but we had nothing. No holes whatsoever. Come to May, the 1st of May we went St Ghislian. And then on the 27th we went to Le Crepiet. They were quiet trips. Five hours and four and a half hours we did. On June the 15th we flew in J-Jig on a daylight to Boulogne and you could see the flak there. When we were going in there was one aircraft coming out with the whole of his starboard wing in flames. We never knew what happened to him.
I: Was that the first daylight raid?
GB: That was the first daylight I’d done. Yes.
I: How did you feel about that compared with the night raids?
GB: Well, you’re more confident because you could see what was happening and you knew you had fighter cover. It was just the flak but then flak you got used to. It never really bothered people unless you got hit with it badly.
I: What was the date of that bombing operation?
GB: 15th of June.
I: So this was after D-Day.
GB: After D-Day. I was on leave on D-Day. We were. And the next operation was to Disemont on the 21st of June.
I: What was the target in the Boulogne raid?
GB: On the Boulogne raid we were dropping bombs that exploded as soon as it hit the water to cause waves to go into the fence to destroy their MTB boats and that.
I: Do you think it worked?
GB: By all accounts yes. The reports we received afterwards it had been a successful raid and the docks got a good pasting as well. In July, we started off the 1st of July we went to a place called [Benayes or Beugnies] and when we got there there were no PFF markings so we bombed on Gee. There was quite a bit of flak and we lost all hydraulics and had to, we had to land using emergency undercarriage but I could never close the bomb doors. They were open all the way back and all the way for landing. And we had to use full emergency for getting the undercarriage down and the use of the flaps.
I: When was that?
GB: That was the 1st of June. We went in Q-Queenie that night.
I: 1st of July.
GB: 1st of July, sorry. They sent us back to the same target on the 6th of July. To [Benayes or Beugnies]. We went on G-George that time and it was a quiet trip.
I: Where is [Benayes or Beugnies]?
GB: It’s in France. All I can —
[recording paused]
GB: And after that I went to Caen on a daylight and on a night operation on the 18th of the 7th took off at 3.30 in the morning. That was when they started the big push and their breakthrough at Caen.
I: Was that a particularly big raid? A mass raid.
GB: Yes, it was a mass raid. They practically destroyed Caen that night and the Army moved forwards and they never stopped moving after that.
I: Do you have any memories of that raid?
GB: Yes, all I can remember was it was a dead easy raid. Flak not bothered. No fighters. No nothing. Just like a cross country.
I: Were you aware of all the other planes?
GB: Yes. They were all, they were all so close together. All bombing on one area. You could see them even though it was that time. Just two hours. It would be about 5.30. just dusk coming on.
I: So you didn’t have any opposition.
GB: Nothing at all. Nothing whatsoever. It was just like flying from here to Jersey on your holidays. No opposition whatsoever.
I: Do you think you hit your target?
GB: Well, we must have done because the Army never stopped moving. They took Caen. The next job after that it was a rough one. It was Hamburg. That was the 28th.
I: What happened then?
GB: Well, we were in the second wave and we were a bit late and we were at the scheduled height of bombing at seventeen thousand feet. There was somebody else above us and they dropped their bombs and we had, on our bombing run we just had to dive starboard to get out of the way of his bombs or we should have got the lot because they always had separate heights for bombing and we were late. Two minutes late. We were at seventeen and the next wave was at seventeen five. That was it. There was quite a bit of flak at Hamburg. That was the most terrifying thing. A full bomb load up there. And the skipper just dived starboard and we were on the bombing run. Where our bombs went we don’t know.
I: Was it common for planes to be hit by bombers above them?
GB: I don’t think so. I think it occasionally happened but this was too close.
I: What about collisions between bombers?
GB: I never saw any. Never saw any at all. I think they did happen but they were very few and far between.
I: And then —
GB: And then after that August was a very busy month. Our skipper had been promoted because our original wing commander, Wing Commander Bartlett had been lost. He’d been shot down and killed in action and our skipper was promoted and became wing commander of 434 Squadron. On the 1st of August we took J-Jig to Acquet in France. There was no PFF markings so the full bomb load was brought back. We brought the whole load back. On the 3rd of —
I: How dangerous was it to bring bombs back?
GB: Well, they weren’t fused. I mean they weren’t fused until you were bombing. Didn’t press the selector switches so they would be alright. It was just that we would have a heavy load for landing. After that on the 3rd we took J-Jig again to le Foret de Nieppe which was for fuel dumps. On the 4th of August again in J-Jig again we went to caves that were just outside Paris where the V-2 rockets were assembled and that was heavily defended with a daylight op and we were hit by flak. We got a few holes. We were caught in predictive flak. We were diverted on the 4th to Dalton.
I: Was this a V-2 place or a V-1 place?
GB: No. A V-2 place where they were assembling the, where they assembled where they assembled the rockets.
I: And where was it?
GB: Just outside Paris. Some from what we could understand from the briefing they were more or less mushroom caves and that. And then on the 5th we went to St Leu d’Esserent. On the 8th we went to a fuel dump just outside at Foret de Chantilly and that was hit and there was black smoke when we left up to fifteen thousand feet.
I: What do you think you hit there at Chantilly?
GB: It was a fuel dump. And on the 9th we went to Le Breteque. On the 12th of August we went to Brunswick. To Germany. On that raid according to recent record was a complete failure as everyone bombed on H2S as there were no markers went down so we bombed individually and there was no concentration.
I: Did you feel at the time that it was a failure?
GB: Well, it seemed to be a failure because there was no concentration of fires or anything. Then on the 14th we did the Army coop where the German divisions were trapped at Falaise. Now that was a very easy trip. There was no opposition whatsoever. The only thing wrong was that the Canadian group bombed their own troops. The Canadian Army had advanced past the markers and of course there was a few killed.
I: Was yours one of the bombers that dropped on the Canadians do you think?
GB: Hmmn.
I: Right.
GB: It wasn’t the Air Forces fault. It was the Army had advanced past the markers. And the last trip I did—
I: And that was what? That was the 14th was it?
GB: That was the 14th of August. We took off at 12.40. It was a five hour ten minute job. And the last trip I did was the 25th of August. We went to Brest to soften it up so the Yanks could take it. And that was quite easy. There was no trouble at all. I think they were more or less giving in. And that was on the 25th of August. There was bad weather back at base and we got diverted to Thorney Island. We spent the night at Thorney Island and then came back the next day and we were told that was it. We had finished our tour.
I: Had you done thirty?
GB: We’d done thirty four and one sea sweep. The skipper, the navigator and the bomb aimer were each awarded a DFC and myself, the wireless operator Jackie Bennett from Newcastle and Jimmy Silverman the rear gunner were granted a commission. That was our reward.
I: What happened to you then?
GB: Well, after that I was posted down to Bruntingthorpe which was 29 OTU and I was instructing on engine handling. I did very little flying. And a week at Blackpool on an Air Sea Rescue course which I thoroughly enjoyed. I only flew twice in the six months I was at OTU. I was never keen on Wellingtons.
I: Why not?
GB: Well, the Wellingtons were clapped out [laughs]
[pause]
GB: Then I went, I volunteered to go back on a second tour and I went in April ’45 with a Flight Lieutenant Kennedy. He made a crew up from 29 OTU and we went to 1651 Conversion Unit at Woolfox Lodge.
I: Why did you volunteer for a second tour?
GB: I didn’t like 29 OTU and I didn’t like what bit of flying I did do.
I: Why didn’t you like that OTU?
GB: Well, there was a little bit of too much bull. The group captain in charge was an ex-Cranwell boy and I think he thought it was still 1938 and not 1944.
I: So you preferred to risk your life.
GB: Yes.
I: Than have the bull?
GB: Have the bull. Yes.
I: Did you go back on ops in the end?
GB: Well, we did our conversion unit on to Lancasters and we were picked out unfortunately to go to Warboys for PFF training so by the time we’d finished the PFF training the war had finished. They had special training at Warboys and then we had to go through another course of automatic gun laying turret which was new to the gunners. By the time we’d finished those courses the war had finished. We finished up at 156 Squadron at Upwood and that was quite enjoyable because we did [pause] took ground crew on what was called a Cook’s Tour. We used to fly them over Germany up the Ruhr and show them all the damage that they’d helped to do in maintaining the aircraft. I did two of those Cook’s Tours in in June and we did a little bit of flying. I did an air test for the Royal Aeronautical Establishment. Another Cook’s Tour. We did a postmortem to Denmark where they did an actual like on operation to Denmark to see how the German radar system worked and that was on the 29th of June ’45. That was a five and a half hour.
I: Testing the radar defences.
GB: Yes. Of the, that the Germans had. Then we just did local flying and then for three days we were dumping. The 21st, the 24th and the 27th of July was dumping incendiaries in to the North Sea that were no good. And in the August of ’44 we, the 1st of August we did a passenger trip to Frankfurt and Nuremberg taking crew, ground crew in and bringing ground crew out. And we had a trip which made me want to go back to Italy when I got married but on the 15th of August ’45 we went to Bari in Italy and we had three days. Well, we crammed twenty of the 8th Army boys into a Lancaster fuselage, gave the a sick bag and put their kit in the bomb bays and flew them home. That was thoroughly enjoyable to see Italy.
I: Can I ask you about the difference between Lancasters and the Halifaxes. What did you feel about flying in the two?
GB: Well, on a Lancaster the flight engineer did the work of a second pilot. He did the throttles, looked after the undercarriage controls, flaps and everything. But as regards flying I still like the Halifax. Especially the Halifax Mark 3 with the Hercules Centaurus engines. It was a marvellous aircraft. There was more room in it. It could carry a bombload of twelve thousand pounds but it couldn’t carry the big bombs because they hadn’t the depth of the bomb bays. But I still liked the Halifax. I think it was because I did all my operations in them and I got through a tour with them.
I: Did the Halifax have any disadvantages?
GB: I don’t think so. Not the later ones. The one of the first lots, the first ones had a tendency to stall but they altered that by doing, altering the rudder system.
I: What did you learn in the Pathfinder course?
GB: I took a bomb aimer’s course and learned how to drop bombs [laughs] That’s the only difference.
I: How did you do that?
GB: Well, they give you a concentrated course on dropping practice bombs and that was the only difference.
I: Now, can I ask you some general questions about operations in the war. what was morale like amongst the bomber crews as far as you personally experienced it?
GB: Very good. Very high indeed. I only ever knew one person who went LMF and he was a member of our crew but everyone else that I knew enjoyed the life. It was a good life. I mean admittedly it was very very dangerous but it was a clean life. You came back to a clean bed and you came back to good food and you were treated well. You were given leave every six weeks. You were. You had extra rations when you came home. It was a dangerous job but they looked after you and discipline wasn’t severe on bomber squadrons. That was on the Canadian group anyhow. But aircrew was quite relaxed.
I: Could you see signs of LMF in this chap?
GB: No. No, we couldn’t. It was only the second trip after we got a good hiding and he never said anything on the night when we did the emergency landing at Woodbridge. When we came back the next day I met him in the Sergeant’s Mess in the afternoon and he said what had happened and I never saw him again. He was off the squadron as quick as that.
I: So you couldn’t think of any reason why he should have gone LMF.
GB: No. None at all. He was the mid-upper gunner and that was just it. He just threw the sponge in.
I: What did the rest of the crew think about him going LMF? Did you have sympathy or did you look down on him?
GB: I don’t think they looked down on him. They were just pleased that he’d gone so quick and nobody could dwell on the subject. And when we got two new gunners and as I say we were away within seven days of that operation on Stuttgart 18th to the 26th and we got two spare gunners. And after that we got two permanent gunners.
I: Were the aircrew superstitious? Did they have any lucky charms or anything like that?
GB: Yes, I’ve still got my little St Christopher cross and three us was always emptied our bladder on the starboard wheel before we took off. Myself, the rear gunner and the wireless operator.
I: This was a superstition was it?
GB: Always did it. Always, whether it was a daylight or a night op. Whether the groupie was there or anybody it was always emptied against the starboard wheel.
I: And did other crews do that?
GB: I think other crews always went in in certain order. Pilot first and like that.
I: What were the briefings like? Can you describe the scene when you got the briefings?
GB: Well, when it was the Berlin and you looked up and everyone said, ‘Berlin,’ everyone, ‘Oh.’ That was it. Then you just stepped back in silence and let them all give you the information. The German targets when you saw them when you saw the red lines leading you knew you were in for a warm night. The French targets everyone [clap] was happy.
I: They clapped.
GB: Well, there was that and a cheer when they said Caen or St Leu d’Esserent like that. I mean compared to the German targets they were easy. The only targets that we didn’t really like, the whole crew, was the mine laying duty because they, the majority of them were so long and there were so few of you you felt so exposed. I mean the Germans would probably leave you alone but then the next time they’d probably lose four five aircraft out of twenty odd. They would really come down on you like a tonne of bricks than leave you alone. When they hit you they hit you.
I: What do you feel about the criticism that has been lodged against Bomber Command since the war?
GB: I think its people who have got no idea about a war. They have no idea what the targets were like. Bombing had to be done. It was the only way of offensive against the Germans and I don’t think they take in to fact the amount of damage that we did do. The amount of people that were tied down. There was over a million people tied down in German defence. There was thirty thousand anti-aircraft guns and over, nearly ten thousand of those were eighty eight millimetre. Now if those eighty eight ten thousand millimetres had been used on the beaches of Normandy the Channel would have been blood red. They had, the German defences had all the ammunition they wanted up to within six weeks of the war. They were never short. They rationed the Army but they never rationed the local defence. And after all we did reduce production and if you reduced production by twelve and a half percent of the Tiger tanks it’s a heck of a lot because there was nothing could touch a Tiger. So I think the criticism has been very unfair because the boys went through hell.
I: When you were at these stations how and where did you spend your spare time?
GB: Well, at Middleton St George and Croft we used to go into Darlington and we all had one particular pub. The Fleece. And that’s where we spent our time. At the Fleece. But I was up there about eight or nine years ago and it’s been knocked down. The Old Fleece pub.
I: Did you put any kind of trophies or anything like that up in the bar?
GB: No. No, we just went there to drink and sing and other things.
I: Were there any breaches of security with people telling girlfriends about —
GB: Not to my knowledge.
I: Ops.
GB: No. No. If you were going up there for a night out you didn’t know anything because the station would be closed if there was a full ops on. There would only be probably only a few ground crew but the aircrew wouldn’t go, be allowed out. So most of the telephone lines were shut down. Were closed. You couldn’t make outside calls if there was ops on.
I: Did the German Air Force ever attack these airfields.
GB: No. Not to my knowledge. Not whilst ours.
Now, I think after the war had ended you went out to Burma.
Burma, yes. On 267 Squadron at Mingaladon. The squadron was keeping the airways open taking mail and passengers flying from Mingaladon in Burma up to Dum Dum at Calcutta. And then from, back again and then from Mingaladon to Bangkok. Bangkok, Saigon. Saigon to Kai Tak which is the aerodrome for Hong Kong on the mainland of Kowloon and they used to fly down to Singapore.
I: This is Dakotas.
GB: On Dakotas. Yes. And the flight engineers were all remustered as air quarter masters on those trips looking after the baggage and the passengers and I had about fifteen of the lads under me. We used to take them out on these trips which they thoroughly enjoyed going up to Calcutta. Spending a day in Calcutta and then coming back going down to Hong Kong. We had a thoroughly enjoyable time.
I: What kind of passengers were you moving?
GB: Well, RAF and Burmese and if you were coming from India you used to bring down the Indians who were coming down on business trips or anything like that. Used to bring our own people down to [unclear] and look after the stores. Generally taking mail across to Bangkok, Saigon.
I: So you were a bit like an airline.
GB: A bit like an airline. Yes. A bit rough and ready. I did one or two. I went to Saigon and worked with Saigon. Wanted to look around during the night time but we were informed that all personnel were on curfew and had to be in by 9 o’clock. And the biggest shock I ever had was walking into the hotel where we were billeted to be given a salute by a Jap prisoner of war with a rifle and fixed bayonets.
I: When was this that you were in Saigon?
GB: 12th of February ’46. Then from Saigon we’d go to Kai Tak which was the aerodrome for Hong Kong on the mainland and the people of the mainland which was a British colony I’ve never known people so friendly to see us. We were taken into cafes and restaurants and you could have everything you wanted.
I: In Hong Kong.
GB: In Hong Kong. But what I was surprised about Hong Kong is that they had everything on show and sale and the war had only been over for five months. You could go in and buy a Rolex Oyster watch. You couldn’t see them in Europe but they found them. They could. You could buy anything you wanted.
I: Were these Chinese who were —
GB: Yes. The —
I: You in Hong Kong.
GB: In Hong Kong where they were first class.
I: Coming back to Saigon did the Japanese soldiers do their job well?
GB: Yes, as far as I know they had no complaints. They guarded us well. But the trouble was just beginning to start then. There was just a bit of discontent amongst the Saigon people I think. It was just beginning to start with the Viet Cong. Just beginning to get unruly.
I: What did you see of disorder there?
GB: Nothing at the night time. That’s when it happened. During the day everything was normal. It was on a night time when they used to come and try and interfere on the aerodrome but we were in the town itself so we saw nothing.
I: So they were trying to attack the aerodrome.
GB: Trying to you know disrupt it more or less.
I: Did you see any French military presence there?
GB: Well, last I was there the only French presence was two Corvettes in the harbour. There was no French troops whatsoever. If the French had spent a little more time in French Indo China as it was then instead of parading around Europe they might have been in a bit better position out there.
I: Did you feel in much danger in Saigon?
GB: No. Not really. I wasn’t there long enough and the short time where the trouble was we were in the hotel out of the way.
I: You were telling me about 29 OTU at Bruntingthorpe was it called?
GB: Bruntingthorpe.
I: Where is that?
GB: Just outside Leicester.
I: And you were telling me about the excessive bull there that drove you to apply for a second tour. Can you give any examples of not —
GB: Well —
I: Without mentioning the group captain’s name any examples of the kind of bull that went on there?
GB: Well, we had once a month we had an officer’s dining in night where all the tables were put in the shape of a horseshoe with the group captain in the centre and then going left to right from squadron leader. From wing commander, squadron leader, flight lieutenant, flying officer down to pilot officer which was pre-war bull. Not wartime discipline. And then he would hold a full parade of the whole OTU and every officer and every airman would parade on the main runway and would march past the rostrum as though they were the guards which again goes back to pre-war. It should never have been done in wartime RAF. But the Australians didn’t like it because we had a lot of Australians go through there and they objected strongly. And in the Officer’s Mess we had a very big organ by a very well known organist. The organ, keyboard and the sound box system was flooded with beer. The Mess notice board all the Mess board notices were burned down by the Australians. The group captain had his own hook for his hat and coat with a bolt right through the wall. The peg was pulled out. Also, part of the wall [laughs] In fact they did so much damage the group captain closed the Officer’s Mess bar for a week. All because of bull.
I: Did you approve?
GB: No.
I: Of what the Aussies did?
GB: Yes. I did. But no one was allowed in the Officer’s Mess after 5.30 unless they were in full dress. No battle dress. I came back and I’ll tell you the exact day. We’d, I’d been out a cross country to check the pilot for engine handling on the 19th of February ‘45 and we took off at 12 o’clock and we’d been diverted to Husband Bosworth. And by the time we got back it was 16.35. I was pulled up for entering the Mess in battle dress and not allowed to have a meal, my evening meal until I had changed. And the evening meal finished at 19.00 hours which is 7 o’clock and I didn’t get in as I say until 16 —
I: Twenty five you said.
GB: That’s how bad, that’s how bad the bull was.
I: You also were telling me about another job you had I think in ’46 of having to deal with airmen’s possessions who had been killed.
GB: Yes.
I: In accidents.
GB: That was the, I did that at 29 OTU. The last job I had was on for in the July 1946 was Dakota KN585 was hit by lightning and crashed in to the Irrawaddy Delta at Bassein. The death roll was twenty two. By the time we got the bodies they were four days old and I had to [pause] another flight lieutenant and the local police identified the bodies and arranged burial which was a very distressing thing to do especially as five days later I was on my home.
I: How were the possessions dealt with?
GB: Well, most of the possessions that they had I had to burn because they’d been on the bodies and they had been five days in the swamp and they smelled terribly and there was very very little went home. And of the twenty two they had no identification. They were all just interred with no headstone. No one knew who they were. They were interred at the European Cemetery at that time in Bassein. They would later be moved to the War Graves.
I: But you were telling me about your special problem you had with the possessions of Australians.
GB: When I was at 29 OTU. Yes. With the letters I mean the Aussie boys would have two or three girlfriends and the trouble was sorting out the letters to make sure that the right ones went home and the other ones were destroyed. Of the, we had two crews killed whilst I was there. Eleven men died.
I: Would any of them leave wills?
GB: No. There was no wills. I never found a will in the, any of the airmen who I buried. I went through their personal effects.
[Music]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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War Memoir - George Bilton
Description
An account of the resource
Talks of early life at school and work in Hull. Volunteered as ARP messenger and described duties and air raid damage in Hull. Volunteered as aircrew and initially selected for wireless operator/air gunner but later asked to change to air engineer. Trained in Blackpool and RAF St Athan. Crewed up with mixed Canadian British crew on Halifax HCU before being posted to 6 Group 427 Squadron. His pilot did not return from a second dickie orientation sorties so crew went back to conversion unit to crew up and train with new pilot. Then posted to 428 Squadron. Subsequently transferred to 434 Squadron when pilot promoted. Completed tout of 34 operations on Halifax. Gives detailed description of individual operations, experiences and activities. Describes flying in Halifax and discusses moral, discipline issues, operating with Canadians and other general comments. Did instructional tour after completing operational tour, offered commission, did not enjoy it and volunteered for second tour but curtailed by end of war. Comments on tours after war including one in Burma including dealing with casualties in from a Dakota crash in Egypt.
Creator
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G H A Bilton
Format
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Oral history
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABiltonGHA960623
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending review
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--Hull
England--Lancashire
England--Blackpool
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
England--Durham (County)
England--Leicestershire
Burma
Germany
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Stuttgart
England--Berkshire
France
France--La Rochelle
France--Lille
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
France--Caen
Germany--Hamburg
France--Paris
France--Creil
France--Falaise
Germany--Braunschweig
France--Brest
England--Sussex
England--Huntingdonshire
Italy
Italy--Bari
Denmark
Denmark--Copenhagen
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Chantilly Forest
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Julie Williams
427 Squadron
428 Squadron
434 Squadron
6 Group
aerial photograph
Air Raid Precautions
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bombing
C-47
civil defence
Cook’s tour
crewing up
flight engineer
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
military discipline
military ethos
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Pathfinders
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Croft
RAF Harwell
RAF Middleton St George
RAF St Athan
RAF Thorney Island
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Warboys
RAF Woodbridge
target indicator
target photograph
training
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Window
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/500/8391/PCrossleyD1501.2.jpg
e5e18390904d426fab27f09c93ed261d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/500/8391/ACrossleyD150904.2.mp3
760021ffe0f8cb3b6d12186322512cde
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Crossley, Don
D Crossley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Crossley, D
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Don Crossley (1924 - 2017, 1592825 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He flew as a Lancaster wireless operator on 100 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Don Crossley and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GR. This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre, the interviewer is Gary Rushbrooke and the interviewee is Don Crossley. The interview is taking place at Don’s home in Upton West Yorkshire and the date is the 4th September 2015. Right Don, thank you. If you can just tell us a little bit about where you were born and your actual growing up.
DC. Yes, well I was born in South Emsall, and all these villages around here are very much alike in that they were based on the coal board, all private enterprise in those days and I was born in 1924.
GR. Right, and did you go to school locally?
DC. Never anything else other than the local school which at 14, you finished at 14 years old, and the first job I had was down Upton Colliery on a very mundane, dark murky job and that was coupling empty tubs coming off the chair. You know what a chair is – it’s the lift.
GR. It’s the lift.
DC. That lifts coal up and down, and that was the very first job which I hated. There was a man who took the tubs off the, off the cage and he was a brute, because he did nothing but swear at me and fetch this fetch that, not a kind word, I had no training I just went on.
GR. How old would you have been then Don?
DC. 14.
GR. 14.
DC. Yes very like that.
GR. And was that actually underground?
DC. Yes, in the pit bottom.
GR. Yes.
DC. Coupling empty tubs as they came off the chair, they went in different districts of the pit.
GR. Yes.
DC. And we were coupling them up going directly to each part of the pit they were needed if that makes sense.
GR. It does, and how many years or...
DC. Oh I was on there I can’t remember how long but I was on there a short time before I saw the lack of wisdom in going down the pit in the first place because I hated it.
GR. Right.
DC. So I got a job at local brick yard and that were fine, but I was only there a year when, when war broke out really or getting in that direction.
GR. And so you would have been about 16, 17, 16 when war broke out?
DC. I think I was a bit younger than that.
GR. Bit younger yes.
DC. About 15 maybe, yes.
GR. And so did you carry on working, in the first few years?
DC. I was at this brick yard, and then I went to have a little job where they made tarmac of all things for the runways they were putting down for the airfields.
GR. Oh right.
DC. Making tarmac, a stone quarry [pause]
GR. And that would have carried on?
DC. That carried on until I knew I was going in the Air Force, at least I was going to go in the services because the war had broken out by then.
GR. Yes.
DC. So.
GR. So am I right.
DC. Just went on in the quarry until I was old enough to go in the Air Force.
GR. I’m right that obviously when conscription you would have been conscripted if you didn’t volunteer.
DC. That’s right, as you probably are aware all aircrew were volunteers, there were no pressed men.
GR. No.
DC. Everybody was a volunteer so I was waiting my turn, but I never thought I’d get in, education requirements were relaxed rather alarmingly to get the numbers they wanted.
GR. Right, so did you, I know everybody aircrew were volunteers, so did you, was there literally an RAF recruiting office, did you, how did you volunteer for the Royal Air Force?
DC. They notified you, Ministry of whatever.
GR. Yes.
DC. When you became a certain age, and the interviewing panel consisted of all the three services and it was held where the Sheffield United ground, football ground, they took those premises over and confiscated them for interviewing different service personnel who were coming in for service, in the, in whatever service they chose.
GR. Right.
DC. Lets see now, so they asked me, there was a panel and they asked me to say why I wanted to join the Air Force., I said well, my brothers been at Dunkirk, he didn’t like the Army too much, I am frightened to death of water so I wouldn’t have gone in the Navy. I can’t swim yet, now, it used to be a requirement for aircrew that they had to be able to swim, I can’t put one foot in the water without being frightened to death of it.
GR. Right.
DC. They didn’t like it, but they said then why have you volunteered for aircrew then, why don’t you, and if you’ve volunteered for aircrew why haven’t you gone for a pilot. Oh, I said, that’s simple, I’m just not clever enough. I didn’t have the education, I left school at 14 I didn’t start till I was 6 so that’s not much of a recommendation.
GR. Right. And so was there any specific role?
DC. Yes.
GR. On the aircrew that you wanted to do or did they tell you...
DC. There was yes, naturally anybody would want to be a pilot but, I were living in cloud cuckoo land that I even got in the Air Force with my lack of education really, so they said well if you’re that keen why don’t you become a gunner. Well in those days gunners, the gunners were getting knocked out of the sky quicker than you could shake a stick at.
GR. Yes.
DC. So I told them that, I said well I want to volunteer but I don’t want to kill myself, not yet I’m still only 18 so if you don’t mind, they said well what would you like to be. I said I’d like to be a flight engineer or a wireless operator. A gunner is too quick, the waiting lists for gunnery, for gunnery recruiters were very quickly used up.
GR. Yes.
DC. And I was amazed when I got a letter this was in 1943, June 1943, to join the Air Force but first you had to have an attestation, go before the attestation board. I couldn’t even spell it never mind know what it was, I didn’t know what attestation was, but it was for three days at Doncaster where they had requisitioned the new Court building again for this attestation. They tested you on maths and English and things like that, and health gave you a very thorough health check.
GR. Check up, yes.
DC. So they said well the fact that you are still breathing shows you might have something, so...
GR. Oh good.
DC. So I was accepted, as a potential cadet and that required being sent to ACRC, that’s imprinted on anybody’s documents ,who went for aircrew, which stands for Aircrew Receiving Centre and the first one was at Doncaster where they did all these checks. Next thing I got was a letter saying go to Lord’s Cricket Ground you are posted as a potential wireless operator so I thought well this is good, there’s me on hallowed ground of the cricket match, cricket pitch, on which people like Don Bradman had put foot on.
GR. Yes.
DC. I thought I was very privileged just to have been on there.
GR. And they used Lord’s at St John’s Wood for most of the war didn’t they as...
DC. That’s right.
GR. For RAF.
DC. Yes. Everybody, when I, when I was called up, I went from Doncaster Station and it was funny you could tell people were going like I was. There were two lads stood talking to each other and I went up to them and I said “ Are you going to ACRC” and they both said yes and they were from Mexborough, it is about 10 miles from here, so at least I had got somebody to travel with and speak to, all the way to London where I’d never been out of my own bed before and there I was on my way to London.
GR. I was going to say that’s the first time you’ve travelled away from
DC. Yes.
GR. This area.
DC. Right, right I had never been away any days holiday or anything, just, just on my way to London, there’s me this loan miner, been a miner travelling all the way to the biggest city in the world.
GR. Yes and what happened after Lord’s? Did you come home or...
DC. After Lord’s Cricket Ground, training and swimming and doing there to my horror, you were posted to an ITW, Initial Training Wing, and these were where you’re training and your basic training for whatever trade you chose, we had been selected to serve in. It was... Getting back to the interview for going into the Air Force in the first place they were all cut glass people, we call them cut glass because they talked as though they had got mouthful of cut glass.
GR. Right.
DC. And that how I found the officers, but on reflection they were the right kind of people.
GR. Yes, yes. So what, what, what did training mean?
GR. Mean to you, where did you go?
DC. That was the first initial things was the ITW we were there for about 18 week, in which they taught you the basics about guns, Browning 303’s. I can remember one corporal teaching us and he said “you need Kings Norton Nickel Silver”, I said oh that’s a funny name I wonder what this is, and it was Brasso. He came from the Midlands and they must have called it a different title, Kings Norton Nickel Silver, that’s what you ask for in the shops.
GR. Right.
DC. Aye, I thought it was part of the course learning this word.
GR. [laughter]
DC. And it was the description, yes. Another one, why should this stick in my head, teaching you how a bullet leaves a gun. They said the bullet leaves, the bullet nips smartly up the barrel hotly pursued by the hot gasses which work with reflex to re-coil the mechanism first fired in the gun, and I had to learn that off by heart, and I thought well when I’m sat up there in a turret, if I’m going to be a gunner, that’s the last thing I want to be having to learn, at the end of a gun.
GR. Yes.
DC. It was a Browning, and it was a Browning 303, which is the same as a soldier’s rifle, the size of ammunition, and that was a bit of a handicap compared to the Germans cannon, and that’s a different story.
GR. It is. So you’ve done your initial training and...
DC. Initial training, and I failed on my passing out tests, I failed my, I didn’t quite get the speed which was 18 words a minute in plain language and 22 words on cord, and the officer had me in and said well you’ve failed, what are you going to do, are you going to go on the ground crew. I says no if I can’t be in the Air Force to fly, I’m not in the Air Force, I said I’ll go back down the pits I think. Anyway he gave me another test that afternoon and I passed it so.
GR. Oh well done.
DC. I did get in one way or another.
GR. Yes, so that’s training as a wireless operator/air gunner?
DC. Yes, let me just explain, on the original war, on the ex war, pre war aeroplanes, the gunner was the main man as regards all auxiliary duties.
GR. Yes.
DC. Wireless was part of his training so he was a duel role person; he was a wireless operator/air gunner.
GR. Air gunner yes?
DC. But, with the advent of four engine airplanes, the signaller as they re-named him, took on a different role, a bit more specialised, so they made him a straight signaller and its funny walking around a town with an S on. Everybody is acquainted with an N for navigator and B for bomb aimer, to a wing for a pilot they saw this S on my half brevet and said well what’s that for, I said you mustn’t touch that, that’s secret, that’s what the S’s meant, its secret. [laughter]
GR. And then later on they learnt it meant signaller?
DC. Yes, Signaller, it was a long training really for a signaller, and that was basically because you can’t rush learning the Morse code, it could only go at a certain speed, and you gradually built up and one problem I had, I didn’t realise at the time, you’re all sitting at different desks hammering away on a key with a pair of headphones on trying to increase your speed up to the required speed for passing out, [pause] where am I?
GR. Yes, well yes you were just talking about your Morse code training.
DC. Yes and the corporal instructor passed me and said “What do you think you are doing?” I said I’m doing about 10 words a minute, he said “Well not in this Mans Air Force you’re not, lad” he said “in this Air Force you’re sending with your left hand” he said “And you can’t do that”. The technique of sending Morse is the wrist action and you can’t get it with the left hand because you’ve got to, the Morse key is on the right hand side in an aeroplane and you’ve got to send with your right hand.
GR. Yes.
DC. So I says “Well I can’t I’m left handed” he said “Well by the time you’ve got a parachute on and a Maewest and different clothing thickness you won’t be able to reach the key never mind send Morse with it”, he says “you either send with your right hand or you’re off the course”. So I had to learn, forget my left hand and go up to speed with my right hand which took some doing.
GR. Yes
DC. And that is why you know me now as being ambidextrous.
GR. Yes
DC. Because I thought if I can send with my left hand, right hand, I can write with my left hand as well, so I wouldn’t have to write with my left hand and that served me in good stead later on.
GR. So you could do Morse, left hand, right hand.
DC. Yes
GR. And you can sign your name, left hand, right hand.
DC. That’s right.
GR. Very, very good, when...
DC. Go on.
GR. When did you actually meet your crew? How did all that come about, what happens?
DC. Well, just in between the radio school where you’re passed out from with three stripes, there was an AFU an Advanced Flying Unit, for wireless operators and that was on Anson’s, where you went up with a pilot and a navigator and that was what they called advanced training. We then went to OTU, which you were touching on, where serious flying started really and we did our crew assembly there, and you are probably familiar with every detail that tells you, that your not, your not selected you just go and mix with each other.
GR. Yes.
DC. You become a crew by consent.
GR. Yes.
DC. Talking to each other and saying yes, will you be my wireless operator, will you be my pilot?
GR. Yes, so did you ask the pilot, or did the pilot come and ask you?
DC. I was on an all Canadian crew my first, weren’t my choice it’s just that I think I was the only one left and we went flying on a night flying trip and I got some severe pains in my groin and so when we landed I went down to the hospital on the quarters of the airfield, and they said it looks like appendicitis, they took me to Doncaster infirmary to have my appendix out. So that meant that crew was without a wireless operator, because I was in there about a week and their training was ongoing, and when I come out they’d gone, and nobody ever to this day has told me where they went they just disappeared. I don’t know what happened to them, they were all Canadian apart from me.
GR. Right.
DC. And so how my crew came about, they’d already selected themselves they were just waiting for a signaller, a wireless operator and that turned out to be me and the adjutant had me in and said well there’s only two, two captains without wireless operators, and there’s a picture of either one, so you pick which one you want. So one was a Scotsman with a scarf round his neck a typical flying, fighter pilot, he liked the image, the other one was more like a vicar on the photograph and I thought well, there’s old pilots as you know and there’s bold pilots, and I said there’s no old bold pilots, so I picked the vicar looking one he looked a bit more steady and he had been flying Dragon Rapide’s, training navigators at Cranwell before he came to pick a crew up. Eygot they called him, he lived in Plymouth. [pause] What else can I tell you about him?
GR. So you’ve got your, you’ve got a crew.
DC. A crew of two Canadians, one Australian, one man from Cornwall, that’s the navigator, the pilot from Plymouth, and myself from Yorkshire.
GR. Yorkshire.
DC. A right motley bunch.
GR. Yep, and then did you then move on to Heavy Conversion Unit? or...
DC. Yes.
GR. Yes.
DC. After that flying that’s where we went, that was at Sandtoft, I don’t know whether you’ve heard of Sandtoft?
GR. I’ve heard of Sandtoft, yes.
DC. That’s a Heavy Con Unit, it was named Prangtoft, you know what a prang is?
GR. Yes.
DC. That’s a crash for an aircraft because there were a lot of accidents and they put it down to them being knackered crew, knackered aeroplanes so old, beyond fit for use on operations.
GR. Yes, because I, I must admit I heard somewhere that yes, the four engine aircraft they used at Heavy Conversion Unit was a lot of aircraft that had finished on ops or weren’t up to scratch for ops.
DC. That’s right, they were used.
GR. Yes and they were expecting you people to, to train on them.
DC. That’s right, yes that’s true, and it was a rough old place was Sandtoft.
GR. Did you have a prang free?
DC. Life?
GR. Conversion?
DC. A what?
GR. Did you have a prang free conversion?
DC. Oh yes we didn’t have any accidents.
GR. You and your pilot were alright?
DC. Yes we were ok, yes; you didn’t pick an engineer up until you got onto Sandtoft.
GR. Yes.
DC. Because there is no position in a twin engine aircraft for an Engineer, so that’s when we picked the seventh member of the crew up and he came from Birmingham.
GR. Right.
DC. He worked at the Austin factories in Birmingham before he came in the Air Force . [pause] what else can we tell you Gary?
GR. And then, so how, so from that very first day when you set off to Lord’s to finally finishing at Heavy Conversion Unit, how long did your training take? Roughly, six months, nine months?
DC. Oh about a year.
GR. About a year.
DC. I came, yes I went to Operational Training Unit in August ’44, joined the Air Force in June ‘43, so it would be about a year.
GR. Yes, So that’s a year of training?
DC. Yes.
GR. And then you were allocated a squadron, were you? Your crew?
DC. Yes.
GR. Your plane.
DC. We flew together at the Heavy Con Unit in that monster and then we were posted to 100 Squadron which is in 1 Group if you know the grouping numbers.
GR. Yes.
DC. Of aircraft, and we went to 1 group and we went to Grimsby, which was 100 Squadron.
GR. Yes. So not too bad that’s about, Grimsby is probably 50, 60 mile away from where we are so...
DC. Yes, and we used to get home whenever I could but you didn’t get a lot of time off.
GR. Yes
DC. And at Grimsby, [pause] it was a nice lovely run station it was great, there was a lot more freedom, a lot more tolerance.
GR. Yes, right.
DC. I did, in total I did 12 operations but, we did about 8 of those mixed with daylight and night bombing.
GR. Can you remember what the first operation was and what it was like?
DC. Yes, it was a bit rough. I don’t remember a lot of action though because I was listening to the wireless; my job was listening to the wireless, I just sat down.
GR. Yes.
DC. I can get my book and determine that.
GR. No, no, so what, what was it like though on that day, you obviously had been at the Squadron, I don’t know a week, two weeks and then you were obviously told you were going on operations. What did the crew feel like? Or what did you feel like?
DC. I would think somewhat apprehensive,
GR. Yes.
DC. To put it mildly, yes.
GR. Because by then there would have been, yes, the war was going into its fifth year.
DC. That’s right, it was getting close to the end of the war, but nobody knew that at the time.
GR. No .
DC. There were still enemy aircraft about and they were still, there was one funny thing at the briefing, they said that Jerry is sending up spoofs. I don’t know if you’ve heard of spoofs, but these are supposed to be Germany firing shells which gave the impression an aircraft had been hit, a big black cloud.
GR. Yes.
DC. Well I didn’t believe that, I thought they were real aeroplanes because why would he waste putting a gun together and putting a dummy bullet up the spout. I think they were aircraft blowing up.
GR. Right, I mean, perhaps, perhaps the Germans thought if they...
DC. Get the morale.
GR. Yes the morale if you saw lots of planes exploding around you.
DC. Yes.
GR. Yes, and morale.
DC. I just can’t see them wasting...
GR. Yes.
DC. Useless shells, well of course when its dark you don’t see them anyway because their black clouds, you just see the flashes.
GR. You see the, you see the flame inside that.
DC. Yes the internal, yes.
GR. But as you said earlier being in the, in the radio section you...
DC. Yes.
GR. You were enclosed, weren’t you?
DC. That’s right the one redeeming feature about it really was the astrodome, which was right alongside my seat, so I could stand on a step, put my head outside, virtually under the astrodome, because that’s where the Navigator took star shots and navigated.
GR. That’s right, yes.
DC. Yes.
GR. An incredible view
DC. All round, yes.
GR. Yes.
DC. In fact I’m deaf now, and I put it down to the effect of the engines because there is two either side of you, at eardrum level.
GR. Where the radio operator...
DC. Where the radio operator’s seat is.
GR. I have heard that, I have heard that before so yes, yes.
DC. Oh right, In that case I ought to get a pension for that [laughter]
GR. [laughter]
DC. We’ll ask the prime minister for a pension.
GR. Seventy years later.
DC. Actually its a bit more than that because, I was, just in passing I did twelve years, I had four war years, 1947 I came out, but then when the Korean trouble started, and the Berlin airlift, there were adverts for ex-aircrew to go back in the Air Force, because they wanted to staff it up again.
GR. Yes.
DC. There looked like there were going to be some problems so I went back in and the minimum I could sign for was eight years so that’s what I did, I went back into the Air Force in 1949.
GR. As a?
DC. As a Wireless Operator.
GR. As a Wireless Operator.
DC. On what is laughingly called Bomber Command with Lincoln’s.
GR. Right.
DC. Yes, I flew after the war; I flew with Lincolns in Lincolns, York’s, Hastings, [unclear] I mentioned Lincolns didn’t I?
GR. Did you fly the Washington?
DC. Oh yes three years flying the Washington, B29.
GR. That was the American bomber that [unclear] the end of the war, but then came back, came across here?
DC. Yes.
GR. And the RAF used it?
DC. The RAF used it and it was also the one which dropped the two atom bombs.
GR. That’s right.
DC. Which I thank, was most thankful for. It killed a lot of people did those two things but, what they did we were, it wasn’t decided quite what we were going to do at the end of the war, but there was rumour on all the Squadrons I think and certainly on ours, that we were going to go on Tiger Force which was Bomber Command going out and doing low level attacks on Japanese targets. That didn’t materialise because the Americans dropped the...
GR. Dropped the bomb.
DC. The V bomber, the...
GR. And can you remember was your Squadron down as Tiger Force?
DC. There was rumour on the station, but there was nothing proved, but the station [unclear] is that we only did about eight operations, and then the whole squadron was posted away from Waltham to Elsham Wolds.
GR. Right.
DC. Where 103 Squadron were domiciled.
GR. Yes.
DC. And we went there, and we only did four there so I did twelve in total.
GR. Twelve in total.
DC. But at the end of that number, 8 , 12 in total, our crew was picked to go on Pathfinders and we went down to Warboys and did a bit of a course on the 8 Group, 582 Squadron. 582 squadron saw the last Victoria Cross of the war in Bomber Command. He was shot down, a Captain Swales was shot, I can remember his voice quite clearly.
GR. Right.
DC. Directing them in force onto the target area, and he went very low and couldn’t get his height back and he bailed his crew out as I read.
GR. But he stayed in?
DC. Yes.
GR. Yes.
DC. And he killed himself.
GR. So then you, as you’ve just said you were going to do Pathfinder training but the war came to a close.
DC. That’s right.
GR. Then you came back into the RAF .
DC. In between that.
GR. Yes.
DC. I did, it was quite impressive numbers of prisoners of war we flew back from France.
GR. Yes.
DC. And Italy what they called Exodus, exercise Exodus.
GR. That’s right yes.
DC. And that was flying them from [unclear] France, and then we went on to what they called Exercise Dodge, flying the troops back from Italy, by along the south coast on the Adriatic, still with the Lancaster, with 24 passengers.
GR. Nice job that one.
DC. It was a good job yes.
DC. We’d get hooch from one of the local shops, hooch very cheap at that time the official changing rate of Lira for Pound was three thousand we could get 18 thousand [unclear] pound note on the exchange rate on the street.
GR. [laughter]
DC. So did a bit of lubricating of the back passages as it were. [unclear]
GR. [laughter] And you finally left the RAF in…
DC, January the 1st 1947,
GR. 1947 but then you went back in?
DC. Went back in March ‘49.
GR. Right.
DC. For the?
GR. Berlin airlift and Korea .
DC. Yes.
GR. When did you finally come out of the RAF?
DC. 1956.
GR. 1956.
DC. And I got two hundred and fifty six pound, for the eight years.
GR. For the eight years, as a thank you.
DC. That’s right, yes.
GR. [laughter] What did you do then Don, what did you do with the rest of your life?
DC. Goodness me, I had a variety of jobs, one unpaid was 25 years as a parish councillor.
GR. Right.
DC. That was a waste of time with the politics as they are. I had a variety of jobs making houses, building houses, all labouring jobs with me you see.
GR. Ah I see.
DC. I’d no trade, and there aren’t any wireless operators down a pit.
GR. No.
DC. So, and I ended up back down the pit twice like I’ve, like I’ve put in my little memory book, I can mesmerise bung [?] fly really, wasting time going down those jobs, because I ultimately ended up I had a very good job, I went mending televisions for one thing and putting aerials up. But a very good job I ended up with was with the Central Electricity Generating Board. Subsequently became a supervisor in the technical department in the instrumentation areas and it was a very good job.
GR. Good.
DC. Lovely.
GR. Yeah, Well I’ll bring the interview to a close and this has been recorded and hopefully in four weeks time today you’ll be attending the International Bomber Command Centre memorial at Lincoln for the unveiling.
DC. That’s my intention.
GR. So I’m sure we’ll see you there.
DC. Good, all the best.
GR. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Don Crossley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gary Rushbrooke
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-04
Format
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00:34:29 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACrossleyD150904, PCrossleyD1501
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Don Crossley was born in South Emsall in 1924. He tells of his time before the war working at Upton Colliery before joining the Royal Air Force. He volunteered and trained initially as a wireless operator / air gunner. He tells of his experience at the aircrew receiving centre and his training at the initial training wing before his assignment to an operational training unit for crewing up. After serving in a heavy conversion unit, he was posted to 100 Squadron. He flew on Ansons, Lancasters, Lincolns, Yorks and Hastings. He was in Pathfinders force with 8 Group, 582 Squadron, and took part in operations Exodus and Dodge. Don was demobilised in 1947 but returned to take part in the Berlin airlift and also in Korea. He finally left the Royal Air Force in 1956. Don tells about his post war life doing manual labour and then a job with the Central Electricity Generating Board.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Germany
Germany--Berlin
Korea
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1947
1956
100 Squadron
582 Squadron
8 Group
aircrew
Anson
B-29
bombing
crewing up
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lincoln
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
RAF Grimsby
RAF Sandtoft
recruitment
Tiger force
training
wireless operator / air gunner
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/502/8396/ACuthbertJ160507.1.mp3
85f4b9114692e4eb7f754f12301f44e0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cuthbert, John
J Cuthbert
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cuthbert, J
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with John Cuthbert (3006396 Royal Air Force) and two photographs. He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 189 Squadron from RAF Fulbeck.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GC: This interview is being conducted on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archives. My name’s Gemma Clapton. The interviewee today is John Cuthbert and the interview is taking place at Ramsey in Harwich on the 7th May 2016. Also present is Sandra. I’d like to say thank you very much for talking to me today and could we start. Just tell me a little bit about life before the war and how you joined up
JC: Before the war. Yes. Well, I, I’d left school for some time and in fact had had a couple of jobs when I went with a friend of mine to Chelmsford, joined a radio course, a government sponsored radio course at the Chelmsford Technical College which I found a bit difficult at times although the radio side was ok. The idea was to train people up to take the place of technicians who had gone into the air force so it was a crammed four month course. In fact I came eleventh out of forty so I was quite pleased with that and some stayed on at Marconi’s at Chelmsford and others went on to Murphy Radio at Welwyn Garden City which I did. I went on to Welwyn Garden City where there was a very large ATC squadron. I was going to join the navy because it’s a naval port here and my friends were in the navy but I joined the ATC and we heard there was some flying going on at a little airfield called Panshanger, about five miles away and we used to hurtle off on our bikes and get a flight in a Tiger Moth. So that was the very first bit of flying I did in a Tiger Moth but I got ticked off for moving the wrong bit because you were sitting behind the pilot and he was a bit grumpy that day I think and subsequently I attended a summer camp with the ATC at RAF Westcott which was an Operational Training Unit with Wellingtons and we had the chance of flying on a cross country in one of those so I flew a four hour cross country in a, in a Wellington, which was great. Shared the crews flying rations. Chewing gum and barley sugar which we never had of course and I thoroughly enjoyed it and I volunteered for air crew at that time and you could go up for Cardington. You know it was RAF Cardington you attended for two or three days for medicals and all sorts of things and I didn’t think I’d pass to be honest. I didn’t think I’d pass the medical. On the train going to Cardington there were chaps sitting opposite me, rugby players and all this sort of thing and I felt about that size and I thought hmmn but in the event I did get accepted and some of the big chaps didn’t. Strange isn’t it? Yes, I got, I saw later on a document later on which said PNB material which is pilot/navigator/bomb aimer but I wanted to go in as a wireless operator because it was my trade and it was my hobby and so I duly got called up for training as a wireless operator/air gunner and completed all the initial training which incidentally didn’t get off to a very good start because the first Monday of the new course you were put on fatigues. Not a very good start for the course but, and there were various jobs from sweeping the NAAFI. The worst one was delivering coke to all the huts because there was hundreds of huts. Guess which one I got? I got the coke delivery with some other lads so we had to load up this flat truck lorry with sacks of coke and deliver them to the huts around the camp and half way through the afternoon it started to rain so you can imagine what state we were in and part of the route took us past station sick quarters and at the end, it was a lot of huts put together and at the end of one of the huts was a conservatory type affair and inside were two or three chaps in beds, white sheets, sitting up, reading books. I was wet, dirty and I said, ‘You lucky blighters.’ The next minute a lorry went around a corner, a sharpish corner and a load of sacks came over and propelled me on to the road and the medico came dashing out from sick quarters ‘cause they saw it happen and I wanted to get back on the lorry but they wouldn’t let me do that. They dragged me into sick quarters and laid me out on one of their nice clean beds, examined me, couldn’t find anything broken. They said, ‘Well you’ve got to be kept in in case you’ve got concussion,’ so I finished up in sick quarters, in a bed, in a room on my own feeling rather sorry for myself but I thought never wish anything on yourself. [laughs]. I thought that was very funny afterwards but of course I had to start a new course then because I’d missed, I was in there a week. Nothing wrong with me and they let me go. No, I didn’t get any sick leave. I was just discharged into the, into the course. So, anyway the rest of it went all ok. I got fatigues again of course the next Monday and I thought this is like Groundhog Day you know but it wasn’t. It was, I did some sweeping somewhere or other which was quite mild. I enjoyed the course though. We had to work hard. At the end of it we were to go on leave and then return or be posted to a radio school which was the bit I was looking forward to but instead of that we were called to the NAAFI for a meeting with a lot of top brass who came down and said, ‘Well, you chaps, you’ve finished this course,’ he said, ‘But I’m afraid that the radio schools are pretty full and you’ll be kicking about for some while,’ he said, ‘But what we do want is some air gunners. They’re fitting new turrets to the underside of the aircraft.’ This, well they did experiment with this but it wasn’t continued with. That was a lot of eyewash. There were no such thing during the war of mid under turrets. Not on British aircraft. They were just short of air gunners and they wanted the whole course to remuster. We would have been sent on leave, returned to Bridgenorth where we’d done our training. There was an elementary air gunner school there and on completion of that we would go to air gunners school and if we passed we’d be sergeant air gunners and the next move would be Operational Training Unit and then a squadron and this appealed to most of them. I didn’t particularly want to be an air gunner. I was good on the old keys you see and a friend of mine, I’d better not give his name but came from Brightlingsea said, ‘You’ll be the only one left here, John if you don’t remuster. You’ll be all on your tod,’ he said. So, in the end I agreed and remustered with the rest of the course and my friend Jack he later came in to the hut where we were getting ready to go on leave and he was a big chap, rugby player and he was crying. His eyes weren’t good enough for straight air gunner so he had to stay. Isn’t that strange? I met him after the war when I was on Transport Command down at Holmsley South. I met him in the sergeant’s mess and he’d got his signals brevvy up. I said, ‘Oh you made your signals course then Jack.’ He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘What did you do? Did you get on ops?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘I was instructor on the Isle of Man.’ I said, ‘You got me flying over hunland,’ I said, ‘Getting shot at left, right and centre and you’re enjoying the fleshpots of Douglas.’ ‘That’s right, John,’ he said. [laughs]. I said, ‘Well if I’d got the chop I’d have come back and haunted you.’ [laughs] But anyway he did, he did do the course and, but he never got on a squadron. So there we are but the rest of it was quite exactly as the top brass said. We went on leave, we came back and did Elementary Air Gunner School at Bridgenorth. Went on leave, came back and we were posted, I was posted to number 3 Air Gunner’s School at Castle Kennedy near Stranraer in Scotland. We used to fly up and down Luce Bay shooting at a drogue towed by a Martinet with a very frightened pilot, [laughs] I imagine he was anyway. Although there was a long, a long cable between the towing aircraft and the drogue that we fired at but that was all good fun. The only trouble was that we that were on Ansons, flew Ansons there. There was the pilot, the instructor and three UT air gunners so you each took it in turn to go in to the turret and fire and the ammunition was tipped with different coloured paint so that you knew which gunner had made which holes in it or none whatever the case may be and it was a strange little, it was a Bristol turret. As you elevated the guns up you went down and vice versa so it wasn’t, it wasn’t a lot of room in it so if you did anything wrong you got, it wasn’t easy. There would be the instructor yelling at you from the astrodome further up telling you to get the seagull out of your turret and all this sort of thing but it was very enjoyable and I passed out third in the course which I was quite pleased with at that considering I didn’t want to be an air gunner to start with. There was one unfortunate, well one unfortunate incident while we were there. The pilots were all Polish and they all wanted to be Spitfire pilots so when we’d finished the exercise, whatever it was, it was a lot of very low flying which was all great fun but this particular day this one went into a farmhouse and they were all killed and the three UT gunners in it were the only Scottish lads on the course and they were the ones in Scotland. They were the ones that were killed. I had to attend the boarding ceremony on the station. So, so that was that. We duly went on leave as sergeant air gunners or most of us did anyway and I think we went, we went, yes we went to Operational Training Unit then at Upper Heyford but that was where the ground schooling was done there which was quite a lot of that as you can imagine. Then we went over to the satellite airfield at Barford St John near Banbury of Banbury Cross fame, for the flying in Wellingtons so I was back in the Wellingtons. That was good fun. We crewed up there of course. That was quite remarkable, the crewing up. It’s, I think we were the only country who did it. You were just all put in to a hangar and said get on with it. Gunners, pilots, navigators. Well, I was in, I had an air gunner mate so we were together so there were two air gunners and the skipper was looking for two air gunners and we sort of collided with him and that was that. He was a big tall chap. I’ll have to show you a photograph. Wore a moustache. In fact he was known as The Count on the squadron because he could have been a Count. He was a public schoolboy but he was one of the lads, you know. He wasn’t, he wasn’t at all snooty with it and we found a bomb aimer and a wireless operator, Bill. And we hadn’t got a navigator. There was one who we eventually had but he’d been on a previous course and the aircraft had crashed and he’d walked out of it. We thought that might have been a bit of an omen [laughs]. Some funny things you think of. Anyway, Frank Johnson was the navigator and he was a damned good navigator. Anyway, we were crewed up and the first flying was circuits and bumps, of course with an instructor. First time we’d all flown together and I always remember the first, after the first hour of circuits and bumps the instructor got up to get out down the old ladder and we all pretended to follow him [laughs] because the skipper would be taking us but he turned out to be a very very good pilot of course and we did our day circuits and bumps and then our night circuits and bumps which was a bit more difficult ‘cause you got in to a Wellington in the front, under the nose and the propellers were very close to the fuselage and you had to go dead straight to the aeroplane otherwise you’d rather lose your head. In more ways than one. But that was fun and then we went back to Upper Heyford for ground school. It had a very complicated fuel system the Wellington and more than one crew were lost because they’d thought to have run out of petrol and in fact there was another tankful somewhere but they’d opened the wrong cocks, you know. So this, I forget, I think his name was Fry, Flight Lieutenant Fry, he was a genius. He’d fixed up a ground replica of this petrol system with pipes and levers and everything and fans and we all had to learn it. We all had to learn the fuel system by doing this, you know, this model. If you did anything wrong the fans would stop. So we got quite good at that but we didn’t have any trouble with the Wellington. The only thing that concerned me a little bit about them was at night when you did a night cross country or any night flying. They’ve got fabric covered wings, the Wellingtons. They were made of a geodetic construction but it was all fabric covered and they filled the tanks up in the wing and invariably some got spilled all over this fabric and as you took off sparks would be flying past from the engine and if you were in the astrodome looking out you wondered why you didn’t catch fire but they never did of course. It was flitting past too quickly but that was, that was an interesting point about the Wellington but we used to have some good cross countries in those. Four hours as a rule and a nice meal when you, before you took off and another one when you got back so that was good. From there, we all passed out there with flying colours and the next thing, I think we went to a, kicked our heals for a week or two at a, some place waiting for, but the next move was to a Heavy Bomber Conversion Unit on Stirlings, big four engine things but we couldn’t go directly. We had to wait out turn and eventually we were posted to RAF Swinderby on these confounded Stirlings which were very, very fine aircraft but the ones we had were well past their sell by date and I don’t think we ever flew without something going wrong and we were jolly glad to see the back of Swinderby I can tell you. All sorts of things happened. I mean, one of the worst ones I was in the rear turret, we were doing night circuits and bumps, two hour detail and we’d done about half of it and we were doing a landing and I thought, hello the old runway is still whizzing past fast. The brakes had failed. There was a yell from the skipper, ‘Brace, brace.’ Well, I was in the rear turret. I couldn’t do much but just hang on. The runway finished, the grass started, we went through a hedge, across a field and finished up with the bombing hatch over the Newark Lincoln Road so we were out of there a bit smartish because they had a habit of catching fire, these Stirlings. We plodded back to the peritrack and the transport came around to pick us up and we thought we were back to the mess for a meal now. No. No. Around the peritrack to another Stirling to finish the detail so we did another hour of night circuits and bumps so that didn’t, didn’t encourage me at all with those things. On another occasion the, it had an electric undercarriage, not an hydraulic one and if there was any failure at all with it you had to wind it up by hand or the flight engineer did. Well, no we hadn’t got a flight engineer there. Or did we? Yes, we picked him up, that’s right, we picked a flight engineer up at Con Unit. We didn’t, we didn’t have a flight engineer at the Operational Training Unit. They were still learning about engines somewhere. But yeah this damned thing wouldn’t wind down so we were pealing around for half an hour trying to get the undercarriage down so that was interesting. But the worst things that happened to us in a Stirling was on a cross country. This was October, November time and it was over Scotland and we were on our way home, on the homeward leg and the starboard outer engine overheated. Apparently they get, the oil gets super cool and thick and doesn’t circulate so the engine gets, and it’s called coring apparently. Anyway, they had to switch the engine down but that was alright but what wasn’t right was the propellers wouldn’t feather. It wouldn’t feather and stop so it was windmilling so not only had we lost an engine it was still being driven by windmilling causing a terrific lot of drag. Fortunately, we’d got the screen flight engineer with us instructing our flight engineer and he assisted on the way back. We called up. It was a system during the war called Darkie. They wouldn’t allow it now but the posters was of a little black boy. ‘If you’re in trouble call Darkie.’ Well we called Darkie but he wasn’t in unfortunately so we called Group or got on the radio and called Group and they said that we should try and zigzag home going near airfields which we did. We eventually got back to Swinderby and came in to land and the skipper, he’d learned or heard in the mess that you took the trim off if you lost, you know, were in really serious trouble with an engine and it would, it would straighten, help to straighten it up but it didn’t. It had the opposite effect and we swung towards a group of trees and there was a, ‘Brace. Brace,’ from the skipper again and the navigator, one of his jobs when you were landing and taking off was give the airspeed and a Stirling stalled at ninety miles an hour and I can hear Frank’s voice now saying, ‘Ninety. Ninety. Ninety,’ and I was just waiting to crash and then suddenly it was, ‘ninety five,’ and apparently the screen engineer and the skipper were pushing on the rudder to keep it straight and we overshot, went around again and came in safely and landed and when we got back to the control room they said, ‘We didn’t expect to see you lot again.’ So, [laughs] so that was the dark humour I’m afraid but that put me right off Stirlings that did. We were very glad to see the back of them. We did finish the course and I think we lost about five crews while we were there. All crashing. Not altogether the crew’s faults. You know, just and that invariably happened on a Saturday night and that was a Saturday night when we did our little performance so perhaps we were intended to go in. I don’t know. But the next posting was to RAF Syerston. Number 5 Lancaster Finishing School and it was like going from a clapped out old banger to a Rolls Royce, flying Lancasters. Yeah, that was really good. We had some very enjoyable times there. We had to do quite a lot of flying. Practice high level bombing and fighter affiliation where you have a camera instead of a gun and a Spitfire makes attacks on you and that’s all good fun. It is for the gunners and the pilot but not for the rest of the crew. They’re being chucked about all over the place. There was one amusing little incident while we were at Lancaster Finishing School. We came across, one afternoon coming back from somewhere or other, we came across a Flying Fortress flying back to its base somewhere I suppose and we came up to it and we had to slow down to keep, not keep up with it but to keep station with it and to exaggerate this and to show off a bit we dropped the undercarriage and put some flap down to slow the Lancaster down and we did the usual thumbs up and all this sort of thing and then up with the wheels, in with the flaps and zoomed off. I reckon they thought, ‘Show offs,’ but there we are. I’m afraid the skipper did do that a bit. The one I didn’t like him doing though was, which he did quite a bit on the squadron if we had to do any air sea firing we used to chuck a flame float in the water and then we’d fire at it as we went around but if he spotted any ships he generally introduced himself, you know, by going very low but what I didn’t, what I was scared of, he was going to do this with Royal Naval ships ‘cause I know from my experience at home that anything that flew was fired at. I don’t think they’d heard of aircraft recognition. They just fired at everything that flew. In fact they did bring a Fortress down in the river here during the war. It was out, stuck in the mud for ages wasn’t it? So, I had visions of the skipper doing a show off beat up on a destroyer or something and getting a few rounds up our backsides but on one occasion there was a whole line of, it was a very nice sight, of destroyers in line of stern and we got down the same level as level as them and flew along and so I think they flashed good luck to him on the aldis lamp but I had visions of them opening fire on us. I thought, I hope they know what a Lancaster looks like but there we are. So we passed out there ok and then, yes the skipper was anxious to get on a Pathfinder squadron. They did one tour of forty ops if they survived that long and you had to learn each other’s jobs and all about marking and all that sort of thing which we did. We swotted it all up and we duly went for our interview. It was a wing commander, I think, took it and we were all gathered in front of him answering questions and the skipper, his name was Clem Atting, by the way, his name. He had a scarf on. Weren’t supposed to wear scarves like that and the wing commander said, ‘Are you warm enough, Atting?’ ‘Yes, thank you sir. Yes. Very well.’ ‘Well take that bloody scarf off,’ he said [laughs]. So our interview went downhill from then on and needless to say we did not get to a Pathfinder squadron. We were posted to 189 at Fulbeck-in-the-mud we called it. Well when we got there we were issued with gumboots and I’d never, never heard of that before. We were issued with gumboots. So there we were and we were in wooden huts there though. They weren’t nissen huts. They were wooden huts and I remember, you know, that’s right we went there with four other crews because we went in convoy with another truck. There were four crews ‘cause they’d lost four aircraft and when we piled out of the aircraft er out of the trucks waiting to go to some billet somewhere I was hailed by a resident air gunner from the other side of the road, ‘Hello John.’ He said, ‘You’re a chop replacement.’ [laughs] I thought, ‘Good afternoon to you too.’ Well, we know we were obviously or else we wouldn’t have been sent there but I thought what a greeting, you know. We eventually got in our huts and I can very clearly see it now. The beds weren’t made up obviously, it was just, I just laid the biscuits out, flopped on it ‘cause we were a bit weary by that time and I looked back and on the wall there were twenty eight ticks. Was it thirty or, thirty well I think I’ve got in my notes somewhere that it was reduced to thirty three but I don’t think it was thirty three when we were there. I think it was thirty. Anyway, I thought crikey if this crew who were in this hut had done twenty eight, they were on their twenty ninth and they were shot down what hope have we got, you know? We don’t know anything ‘cause it is, it’s luck though really. Its luck. Absolute luck. I know you’ve got to know all your stuff but it is really luck whether you go down on your first or your last. I mean there were very experienced crews who were shot down when we were on the squadron. On one, on our first raid to Horten Fjord in Norway the master bomber was shot down who was in charge of the raid but there we are. Yes, there was another crew in the hut and they were just finishing theirs. They were just finishing. In fact they did finish their tour while we were there but they left behind their flight engineer who was slightly bad I think. Leo Doyle, I think his name was. He had a revolver in his flying boot and he didn’t want to go on leave and have a rest like you did after a tour. He wanted to join 617 squadron, you know and carry on which he eventually did and I met him after he’d been on it for a while and he said, ‘They’re mad,’ he said, ‘They’re quite mad.’ He said, I think he said they were doing a raid on Flushing and they were in line of stern in daylight and they were just getting shot up as they went in, you know. They didn’t take any evasive action. They were just making sure they hit the target so I mean he was, he was a bit flak happy but that was almost too much for him I think [laughs]. Dear of dear. I always remember him. But yeah, we, we’d, as I say our first, first raid was to Horten Fjord. It was a U-Boat base for the North Atlantic and we duly did our stuff there. It was a long sea trip and the Pathfinders marked the coast where we crossed, where we should cross in case you got off course over the sea, made sure you crossed at the right place but we avoided that like the plague because there was a night fighter station just around the corner at Kristiansand and we thought they could well be buzzing around there so we crossed a bit further east but I think we sighted a ME109. I think that was the occasion I sighted an ME109 astern of us but it didn’t attack us and we kept quiet as well. The second one was not quite so clever. That was at Ladburgen on the Dortmund Ems canal. It was at a place where the water was higher than the surrounding countryside and so the banks were very important and 5 Group’s job was to go there periodically and knock them down and we were, fortunately or unfortunately, that was our second raid. That wasn’t the first time they’d been there but obviously that was our first one there and there was a terrific lot of flak. Naturally they wanted to stop us. They got a bit grumpy about us knocking all this stuff down but we got, we got back ok. I can’t remember. I’ve got some notes here about them but the next one was to Bohlen and that was an oil refinery. Most of our raids were on oil refineries because at that time the Germans were very short of oil towards the end of the war and no we didn’t do much of this flattening of cities and things. We only did a couple of those I suppose. But Bohlen, that was a long trip but uneventful. The next one was to Harburg which was eventful. It was a great big oil refinery on the River Ems. It was both sides. it was a huge, huge place and we were routed in past the Frisian Islands who all had a go at us as we went past which I thought it was a bit uncharitable and then we turned right smartly, right over the middle of Hamburg which again, I thought was a bit silly because they all thought we were going to bomb Hamburg and of course everything went off there and I could see from the turret that the whole place was well alight. It was like day. Flames and flares and everything. It was, it was like hell. You know. Like flying into hell and as we came in I noticed that there was a JU88 poking about. It was so bright I could see the markings on the wings. I warned the skipper. I said, ‘A JU88 starboard quarter up. Prepare to corkscrew starboard,’ and at the same time Eddie Jordan the bomb aimer was giving his, ‘Left. Left. Steady. Right a bit’ and at the same time as he said, ‘Bombs gone.’ I said, ‘Corkscrew starboard. Go,’ as this blooming thing came in and I opened fire and it broke away. I don’t know whether I, I think I must have hit it but he didn’t hit us. That was the main thing. The purpose was to evade it, avoid it. Not to shoot down German aeroplanes but to not get shot down yourself but obviously if you could hit him you would. But we dived out of there at a terrific speed and into the darkness and comparative quiet and the skipper got his, got the heading for home, you know, or first leg of going home and off we went . I think the rest of the, when we got back to Fulbeck we found that there were four, there were four missing. Four of our lads were shot down including some very good friends of ours who arrived on the squadron with us you know, when we arrived. Flying Officer Smith. I can’t remember his Christian name. It was D. It might have been David but I’m not sure now but he did a remarkable thing. He, whilst doing this fighter affiliation at Lancaster, at er when we first got to the squadron you think you’re all ready to go into ops but you don’t. You do quite a lot of training and the drill was when you’d finished the exercise was to take the Spitfire back to Metheringham where it came from because he wouldn’t know where he was and then you know, a guy would go down and well on this occasion a Spitfire formated a bit too close and took about seven foot off the wing off the Lanc and Smithy baled the crew out, one of whom always said he’d have time to do his bottom straps up on his parachute. Well he didn’t. He went straight through his parachute harness and was killed when he hit the ground of course and the Spitfire wasn’t damaged and followed the parachute out to see but there was nothing on the end of it. And Smithy landed the Lancaster safely and it had, you know he was on the Harburg raid with us and he got shot down.
GC: You talk about your crew. Tell us a bit about what they were like. What kind of characters they were.
JC: Well, the other gunner, he was a good friend of mine. Much the same sort of type. Bit shorter than me. The flight engineer was quite old. Bert Shaw. He, he must have been nearly thirty. We were, I mean, I was nineteen, eighteen or nineteen. Skipper was twenty two. The others were about that age. I think I was the youngest but Bert, he was very nice. He was married and he was, he drove a fire engine in civvy life but he was very domesticated and he ironed our collars and things for us. He loved doing them. It was just as well because we couldn’t do it and the bomb aimer, he was Eddie Jordan. He was a nice chap. Very well spoken and educated. Like the skipper. Not that we weren’t but you know, he, they were a little bit, I think, better than ourselves. The wireless op Bill Mobley he was a good mate of mine. Got into a few scrapes. They borrowed the, him and a mate of his borrowed the flight commander’s motorbike one night and pranged it. Finished up in Wroughton Hospital and the next day the skipper said, ‘I think we aught to give Bill a look,’ and I said, ‘Well are we going over in the car?’ ‘Oh no,’ he said, ‘We’ll fly over and so we did a low level attack on Wroughton Hospital. How we didn’t get, well he did get caught eventually. He, he, when you take off in a Lancaster you climb steadily until you get a good height before you bank. The skipper thought he was in a Spitfire and used to go off like, unfortunately one day the station commander was in the control tower when this Lancaster flew just overhead and he said, ‘Who’s that?’ ‘Flying officer Atting, sir.’ So Flying Officer Atting was sent to the naughty aircrew school at Sheffield for a week or was it a fort, a week I think. Flight lieutenants and above, flying officers and above went there to the naughty boys school and they had great fun there apparently. The first night he was there they, it was in a famous old hall and they took the fish down from the cabinets, set fire to some furniture and were toasting them apparently [laughs] But we went on leave so we thought it was a jolly good idea this Sheffield business but when we got back off leave and Clem came back and he said, ‘I’ll show you where we were.’ So we hopped aboard our aeroplane and duly went over to Sheffield and he showed us at very close quarters [laughs] the school.[laughs] It’s funny we didn’t all finish up there to be honest but you know, we should get into bits of bother but some things we got away with and it will probably catch up with me when they hear all this but some of it, when we were on ops we dropped stuff called Window. You’ve probably heard all about it. Strips, well it was in packs, packages and they were put down the flare chutes, down the chutes and when they got in the slipstream they burst open and scattered. Well, the skipper and the bomb aimer had girlfriends in this village not too far from Fulbeck and one afternoon we were stooging around flying and they thought they’d give them a look and I mean a look. Dear oh dear. We, I remember looking up at the church tower as we came past and we Windowed the village and they must have known who it was because at that time, or hitherto the markings, we were CA 189 squadron, our squadron letters were CA in big red letters on the aircraft followed by the letter L or E or whatever and they decided to outline it in orange which I thought was a bit unfair really but anyway they were done and of course they stuck out like a sore thumb. I don’t know which raid it was.
[pause]
Ah yes I think it was a place called Lutzkendorf, another oil refinery job and we were diverted to Manston because of fog everywhere and the next morning we took off to go fly back to Fulbeck and again this Window stuff, dropped by somebody else before it had burst open hit all our aerials and took them away so we couldn’t contact anyone on RT and another one of the other squadrons said, ‘Well follow us, you know. We’ll take you back.’ So we did. What we did we didn’t know was that this other character was going to visit his auntie on the way back [laughs] which was down in a valley so we duly followed him down and saw his auntie and flew back to Fulbeck and later on in the day there was a complaint. The adjutant received a complaint from a wing commander who was having his breakfast looking down on two, two Lancasters. Reported us. And the adjutant thought it was great fun and tore the complaint up into the wpb. So that was that. He was really good at that. He looked after us very well, did our adj. I got caught at home on leave cycling without my hat by a snotty provo flight lieutenant who didn’t know the front, the back of an aeroplane and I had to show him my pass of course, 189 Squadron, Fulbeck. The next day when I got back from leave the skipper said, ‘By the way,’ he said, ‘The adj has had a complaint from the provo marshall about you.’ I said, ‘Oh?’ ‘Cycling without a hat.’ He said, ‘Don’t worry,’ he said, ‘It was duly filed.’ Considering most, a lot of his time was taken up writing letters to the families you know so to get one about someone not wearing a hat I can only just imagine what he thought. Well there we are.
GC: Sounds like you had more fun than serious stuff.
JC: Well we did have a lot of fun. We, the skipper was always, I mean you’d be wondering what to do one afternoon and the door would burst open. ‘Let us leap into the air,’ he would say. I don’t know what sort of excuse he gave to anybody to get and so off we’d go. Mind you there were official high level bombing practices and fighter affiliation with a Spitfire. One afternoon we were coming back from a high level bombing exercise which we couldn’t do because there was cloud everywhere and this Spitfire came up, went like that. And I went like that. And I said to the skipper, ‘I think he wants to play games,’ so we sort of meant to play around a bit and he went off and started making attacks on us and for half an hour we chucked that Lanc around the fire, around the sky and it was great fun. Well, it was for the gunners as I say and for the pilot. The rest of the crew were groaning and moaning. Hanging on tight. And I think Eddie Jordan had a bit of tooth trouble so that as we dived down that started making his tooth ache. So they didn’t think it was very funny but at the end of it he got in right close and went like that as much to say, you did alright. So that was good fun. But it wasn’t all like that you know. There was some dodgy bits. Really dodgy bits. Yeah. One of the other daylights we did was to Essen. That was a thousand bomber raid and that was quite a sight and we never did see the ground. It was covered in cloud and we had to bomb on a sky marker. Can’t remember the name of it. Wanganui flare I think they called them but you had to bomb on a certain heading otherwise you’d be all over the place and when we left, I always remember this, when we left the cloud which had been all flat there was a big bump in, over Essen and we never even saw the ground. So that was one occasion where we did what you might call open bombing, didn’t have a specific thing to hit. After that came Wurzburg. Now this was the, we didn’t, we didn’t go to Dresden. I’ve got a note in my diary that the boys have gone to Dresden. We didn’t. We were obviously stood down for some reason. Probably been the night before because you didn’t get to do two consecutive nights ‘cause you couldn’t really ‘cause you didn’t get up till lunchtime. You’d have to get up, have lunch and go straight into briefing so there was generally a night free but we went to Wurzburg which was a big open city and I don’t know why we went there but after the war I read it was troop concentrations. The Russians wanted us to sort it out and that was the only time we carried incendiaries, carried a cookie which was a four thousand pounder like a huge big dustbin and incendiaries and when we left the place the place was alight but on the way back we got into a bit of a spot of bother we were diverted, well we were routed home between Karlsruhe and Stuttgart. Two places to avoid like the plague. And we were poodling along in the dark minding our own business, halfway home and suddenly bump, the radar searchlight went straight onto us. The blue one. So I thought, ‘Hello. We’re in trouble here.’ That’s hastily followed by five ordinary ones so we are immediately floodlit and that was smartly followed by all the ackack guns in what we found out later was Karlsruhe. We’d gone right slam bang over Karlsruhe. We’d been flying straight and level for ages so they must have had us tuned up a treat so how they didn’t knock us out of the sky I’ll never know. It felt as though someone was banging the aircraft with a fourteen pound sledgehammer all over it. You couldn’t hear the engines, you know. I thought they’d all stopped you know one of those funny sort of things that happen you see and the skipper did everything with that Lancaster that, things you would do in a Spitfire short of rolling it and eventually we emerged into the darkness. The lights went out, the guns stopped and it felt awfully silent and the skipper called us all up in turn to see if we were alright and then he sent the flight engineer around with a torch to see if there was anything, damage anywhere. He couldn’t see anything obviously bad and we continued home rather silently but at lunchtime the next day we went down to the aeroplane to do our daily inspections and things and it was like a pepper pot. It had got shiny new squares of aluminium all over it where the lads had filled up, covered the holes up and I thought, ‘Blimey,’ I looked up at the mid upper turret and there were two or three right, right under that. They went in one side, straight across the aircraft and out the other side. It’s only aluminium and these were red hot bits of steel and they were, well why we weren’t seriously hit, or the engines, none of the engines were damaged.
GC: Was there a, or what was the main difference between day and night? Was there, was there did you prefer to do day or do night? Was one more dangerous than the other?
JC: Well, daylight was dangerous in that you could be seen. On the other hand you could see. You could see fighters but the daylight, I don’t think we had a fighter escort over Essen because there was too many of us. There was another one over Nordhausen which I’ll mention next but on that we had a fighter escorts, Typhoons, and they went in front of us strafing all the airfields, keeping them on the ground and then escorting us but we didn’t have [pause], later on we went to Flensburg. We didn’t have a fighter escorts then so I don’t know. Sometimes we did. But it could be very dodgy. A friend of mine, Basil Martin, unfortunately he’s dead now but he was on a squadron in 3 Group and they did a lot of daylights over France leading up to D-Day and after D-Day and they had quite a lot of fighter trouble. In fact, they had, I remember him telling me once there were three of them flying to the target in broad daylight and an ME109 came after them and shot the back one down, then the next one down and his gunner shot that one, shot the ME109 down. They didn’t get a medal for it though. They just got to the target and back again but there were a lot of very short, obviously into France, so very short operations and at one time they, you had to do, or so I heard after the war, that you had to do two of those to count as one ‘cause most of our trips were pretty long you know, sort of ten hours, ten and a half hours. Quite a long while. Yes. Yeah, that was the incident at Karlsruhe. Strangely, the earlier time that 189 lost four aeroplanes was when they went to Karlsruhe. Lost four. We were replacements for the ones that were shot down over Karlsruhe so they were trying to have a go at us as well you see. It’s strange isn’t it?
GC: Did you get superstitious about things like that?
JC: Well, I don’t know. You do get a bit that way. I always put my right flying boot on first and if I didn’t I took them both off and put them on again and people had lots of silly things that you did [pause]. But then nobody queried it.
GC: You also, you also talked about quote ‘hijinks’ in this Lancaster. What was it really like because a Lancaster is a big plane to be throwing around quite so willy nilly.
JC: Yes. Indeed. Well, I’ll tell you something we did one day which, nobody believed us anyway, so I might as well tell you and I couldn’t put it in my logbook otherwise we would have all been court martialled but it’s in my diary. We’d been up for some high level bombing practice over Wainfleet range which is in the Wash. There was an area there where you dropped [prunes?] as we called them. They were smoke ones in the day and at night they were flash and a chap, or I think there were two of them, sat in concrete bunkers taking a bearing on your hits so they could tell you what you’d missed or hit. Well, we got over Wainfleet range and you couldn’t see a thing. We were up at about eighteen thousand feet so the skipper said, ‘Well we’ll do a bit of three engine flying,’ so feathered the starboard outer and that meant, I was in the rear turret that meant I couldn’t use my turret. Then he did the port outer which, I mean the Lancaster will fly quite happily on two engines and then he did the starboard inner and I thought, ‘Oh hang on.’ I wound my turret by hand on the beam so that if necessary I could open the back doors and go out because we had, we had a pilot type chute then for the rear turret. You didn’t have to get out the turret but in the mid upper turret you had to get out, go a few of yards down the fuselage, get your parachute out of a housing, clip it on and then go to the door and, you know it was a bit of a palaver which a lot of people never made of course but anyway we’re flying on one engine. That was the port inner left. And he said, ‘Feather port inner.’ And the poor old Bert Shaw, his voice was getting drier and drier you know, he said, ‘Feathering port inner, skipper,’ faithfully doing as he was told and that meant shutting the engine down and then feathering it so they wouldn’t windmill. So there were four fans stopped. Poor old Bill Mobley, the wireless op, he’d got all this gear on. He thought, ‘That’s gone a bit quiet.’ He looked out the astrodome and saw four propellers stopped. He said, ‘You bloody fool,’ he said, ‘I’ve got all my electric gear on here.’ Well they wouldn’t have had enough on the batteries to unfeather so he shut everything off in a hurry and then came the dramatic words, ‘Unfeather starboard outer,’ and fortunately there was enough power to turn the props and it windmilled and fired. There was a puff of smoke came past the turret and I thought, ‘We’re alright now,’ and all four were running but we weren’t diving down very fast but apparently the skipper had seen a photograph of a Lancaster with all four engines feathered allegedly beating up the control tower but of course that was a trick photograph but the engines were all feathered. They were all stopped and feathered so it must have been done. So he, being a very, if someone could do it he’ll do it, you know. He’ll have a go.
GC: I must admit I’d heard that and you’ve just confirmed ‘cause everybody went, ‘No it can’t be done.’ I had heard it so. You just, you just proved it.
JC: Oh yes. We didn’t have, we weren’t engineless for very long because as I say the wireless op exploded. He should have told him what he was going to go ‘cause he’d got his radio gear on and all the nav equipment and everything.
GC: Yeah.
JC: All draining from the batteries which we wanted for that initial restart but I did quietly tell the fitter engines once ‘cause we used to have a beer with them, you know and he didn’t believe us and I thought, well that’s fair enough. I know it was true, the rest of the crew knew it was true but no one dare breathe a word officially about it or we would all have been, well the skipper would have been court martialled. That’s for sure. So that was, I suppose, the silliest thing we did. Although, I did something very silly once. In the mid upper turret there was, they were electrically fired and there was cut out gear so that you couldn’t’ shoot your fins off or kill the rear gunner or people up in the front you know and there was taboogie which lifted them clear as you went around. Well, we were up one day. We put a, put a smoke float out to shoot at and the blooming things wouldn’t work and I thought, ‘Oh hell.’ So I thought, well I can still fire them ‘cause I can fire them manually by pushing the [sear in] underneath the screw with my toggle and I waited until we were clear and did it and I thought, ‘What the hell am I doing?’ And your mind plays tricks then. Everything went silent and I thought, ‘I’ve shot the blooming aeroplane down,’ and I hastily looked around at all the wing tips and everything and everything was all quiet and I never said a word. I reported that the guns wouldn’t fire and they were all put right but a few rounds had been fired and they would know that but nothing ever happened. I was lucky there. I could have done some damage to the aeroplane just because I wanted to fire the guns. Well, you know all the trouble you go to go out there and do everything and then you can’t do it but the bomb aimer had a slight accident once too because he, he was in charge of the front turret although I don’t think he ever went in it but you had to go out and do a DI on your guns every day and I was in the mid upper turret and I heard a single shot and that was from the front turret and that was Eddie had done it. He’d, because you cock and fire but you have to have the the fire on safety not on safe of course but to get around that you’ve got fire to put a breechblock forward and pull it back and take a round out. Anyway, this single shot went across the airfield, I don’t know where it finished up. We looked anxiously ahead of the aeroplane because out in dispersal but it must have passed over the airfield somewhere but we never heard of anyone being shot so we, we didn’t say too much about that.
GC: There was probably a cow lying in a field somewhere shot by a Lancaster.
JC: That was a bit funny that but there we are.
GC: What was it, I mean you, you’re a upper gunner which was quite a unique place? What was that like?
JC: Well it was, you were very exposed of course. You got a very good view of everything. I mean you could look all around three hundred and sixty degrees whereas in the rear turret your vision was limited to dead astern and each side although there was bits of equipment and stuff in the way. You couldn’t really see properly. The only proper way to see was straight ahead and there the, it was a clear vision channel, clear vision panel where the Perspex had been removed so you could see out better but your visibility wasn’t as good as in the mid upper which was just all Perspex so you had to make sure that was really clean. It was, it was quite a good, quite a good position I suppose but as I say very exposed I suppose but you could see what was going on. Wasn’t altogether a good idea. One of the scariest things was, that I found and no doubt other people thought so too was they never seemed to notice them but you could be flying along at night, pitch dark and suddenly on the beam there’d be a sudden big flare like a full moon, a new moon hanging in the sky. It was a German night fighter. You knew it was, you knew it was a fighter there, it was a great temptation to stare at the damned thing but you didn’t know because he was going to fly across and see who was silhouetted against these flares so you had to look into the dark part of the sky to see what he was up to and in the meantime your aeroplane seemed to be illuminated. Although it was all matt paint it used to shine and I thought you know he must see us and you’d stare and stare and look around and try and, but that was the scariest thing because you knew that a German night fighter had just done that and just dropped that flare with the very intention of seeing who he could see silhouetted against the light because it was a brilliant like a new full moon and it seemed to hang there for hours but in fact it was only a few minutes but it seemed ages before it fizzled out and then you’d get back to darkness.
[pause]
Yes, Nordhausen, that was another daylight. That was, in actual fact it was the place where they were making these rockets underground so we weren’t, obviously couldn’t do anything about that but there was lots of barracks there. A lot of troops and we, apparently the SS was supposed to have moved in and had made their headquarters there and so it was decided to give them a visit for breakfast and there was about two hundred and fifty of us from 5 Group with fighter escort who’d gone in front, spraying the airfield and when we left the whole place was alight. Blew the whole place up, the railway system you know which blew it up but there was an unfortunate incident. This is something you’d see from an upper turret. I was watching an aircraft from 49 squadron who were with us at Bardney. There were always two squadrons on RAF stations. We were with 49 squadron and their letters were EA and I was watching this. It was EA F-Freddie and I saw its bomb doors open. It was behind us and down like that, saw its bomb doors open and the cookie just came out and then the whole lot blew up. It had been hit by, hit by flak and it just, I could feel the heat from it. Or I fancied I could. You know, it was, it just fell away you know. No one got out of it of course. They would have all been killed instantly and I looked it up, I’ve got a book showing all the losses, 5 Group, Bomber Command losses and that was set in there of course, Nordhausen EA F. All black cross against all of them. I looked up the one of Smithy’s crew that was shot down at Harburg and I think, I can’t remember exactly, some of them were killed. Smithy and another one of the crew were very badly injured and they were taken to a prisoner of war camp. Why they weren’t taken to hospital I don’t know. Perhaps it was easier to take them to a prisoner of war camp where they died a few hours later. So they must have been in a bad way. So they, they were killed. But I was really sad about that because they, we knew them so well. You know they’d been with us. They’d joined the squadron with us and he’d done that jolly good landing with a damaged Lancaster and then well I imagine that was their fourth trip. That was our fourth but but that was the only one I actually saw blow up in daylight but at night you see rumours abounded that the Germans were firing up a shell called a scarecrow which burst with a lot of flame and smoke. The idea being to put the wind up the aircrew that it was an aircraft going down but after the war the Germans said, ‘We never had any such thing.’
GC: You didn’t see one.
JC: So what we thought, what we thought was a scarecrow was an aircraft. They said, ‘We never had any such thing.’ It was a rumour that was very strong. Oh that’s a scarecrow gone off. Look. But it was, in a way I suppose it was a bit of comfort because you’d think that wasn’t an aeroplane that was a scarecrow but I’m afraid it wasn’t. We had to mark, I had to tell the navigator of any aircraft going down because he marked them on his chart for use after the war to track down the, which they did, of course, they tracked down all these people. And they even tracked down some aircrew who were unfortunately handed over to the gestapo and the SS and some of them were shot and I mean that’s completely against the Geneva Convention but wherever they knew who it was who did it they caught them and they were brought to trial at Nuremberg.
GC: What else can you remember about serving during World War 2? What was life like on and off the base as well?
JC: Oh, well it was strange really because on the squadron you were living a perfectly normal, peaceful life. You’d go to the pictures, go to the mess, have a few beers or if you were stood down you could go in to Nottingham or somewhere, stay the night, have a few beers and it was a perfectly normal life and then someone would stick their head around the door and say there’s a war and you’d have to go down to the mess or somewhere to have a look at the battle order to see if you were on and if you were well that’s, you went to briefing and had your flying meal. The last supper as it was irreverently referred to and away you went and so suddenly you were transported from a peaceful English village to the middle of a war and back again. If you were lucky.
GC: How did you, when, when you came back like from an op what was the plane like? Was it quiet? Were people chatting or -
JC: We didn’t chat. That’s the remarkable thing when you see these films of, especially American ones they’re all yacketing away. There wasn’t a word over the intercom unless it was necessary. There were certain navigation beacons and things during the war which flashed letters and I’d report those to the nav to help his navigation and in the rear turret you could take a drift so he could check the wind. That was a big trouble, not knowing the direction of the wind because Group would give you a wind but it wasn’t always, it wasn’t always terribly accurate and you only wanted to be a few degrees off and you’d be miles out. So that was the navigation was, I think we did remarkably well but you could see, I could see the target from miles away. You know, there was a glow in the sky for a start because everyone’s been there before you. The Pathfinders have been there, been down and had a look, dropped what they called primary blind markers, there’d would be flares dropped all over the place. Light the whole place up. There’d be searchlights on looking for the aeroplanes and the whole place would be full of activity so a good quarter of an hour before you got there you’d hear all this chatter over the VHF about putting the target indicators down and the master bomber would be controlling all this as though it was a picnic you know. It was quite remarkable and you were still a quarter of an hour away. So by the time you got there you knew everybody [laughs] everyone would be well awake but you could see it quite clearly and you’d think to yourself you’ve got to go through all that lot and hopefully out the other side and if you were early you had to drop your bombs between two very specified times and if you were early you had to do an orbit and come in again which was not a terribly good idea but you had to do it. We did that once. We did that over Komotau. We got there a bit early and I remember thinking I’ll have to have a, keep a sharp look out here going around for a meander around first but of course in daylight it’s nothing like that. There’s just smoke and fire. That’s all you see. There’s not the, I don’t know it’s not the darkness there. Strange. But, as I say, life on the, you know, it’s strange, you just carried on normally. You’d go down to the section in the morning see if any, see what was doing. Do the aircraft, do your DI on the aircraft and have your meals in the mess. You wouldn’t know where the boys were going if you weren’t on, you know. You wouldn’t know that till they got back. You’d say, I remember watching when I got, first got on the squadron I wanted to see. I stood down by the flights one evening as they took off and two squadrons of Lancasters so that was about what thirty odd aircraft all in line around the peritrack going slowly past, then turning onto the runway where there was a black and white chequered caravan and there would be a group of people there waving goodbye to their friends or whatever and you’d get a green from the caravan and the brakes would be on, the engines would be revved up and then the brakes would come off and you’d surge forward to give you an initial kick down the runway. There would be a wave from these people. I don’t know whether they were pleased to see us go or what I don’t know but there was always a crowd there. WAAFs and all sorts giving you a wave and away you’d go down the runway hoping you get off ‘cause they were heavy. You’d got ten tonnes of petrol and six tons of high explosive and if there wasn’t much wind and you were on a short runway it was a bit iffy. It was a bit iffy. You wouldn’t miss the village by much.
GC: Do you remember anything else from serving?
JC: About life on the -
GC: Just life or ops or the crew.
JC: Well, there was another. The next raid we went to was Komotau in Czechoslovakia. That was an awfully long way to go. That was another oil refinery and when we got back over the coast there was thick fog everywhere and we were diverted to Gaydon. We’d never heard of it and the nav said to the wireless op, ‘Are you sure it’s Gaydon?’ [laughs]. And we were getting a bit short of petrol and everywhere over the countryside was just grey and another advantage of being in the mid upper turret I saw in the distance on the port side they looked like bees around a honey pot. I said, ‘There’s some aircraft over on the port side, skipper,’ and we flew over and there they were. There was our squadron and another one all milling around. That was still thick fog and it was a Canadian Operational Training Unit with Wellingtons and the poor chap on the caravan at the end all he could do was fire white very lights to show where the runway started and you knew the heading ‘cause you could see that from your paperwork and we came in, descended through this murk and fortunately there was a runway at the other end of it and we landed safely but we left two or three of the squadron in the fields around. We brought the crew back. We were stuck there for ages and didn’t even get a cup of tea. We were just stuck with our aeroplanes and I thought I don’t think much of this and eventually we, the fog cleared and we took off and got back to, got back to base but that was a bit, a bit naughty that. There were no facilities there at all for a safe landing. It was a case of dropping down through the fog and hoping you were over the runway and in, pointing in the right direction and as I say a lot of them didn’t. The other daylight we did was a place called Flensburg which was on the Danish German border on the bit of land that sticks up and I think we were after some shipping there in the harbour. When we got there there was a hospital ship in the harbour too and when we got there it was ten tenths of cloud so we had to bring them back or we should have brought them back. There was an area in the North Sea for dropping bombs safe you know which shipping were advised of and kept clear of but unfortunately some of the idiots with us were just dropping them as soon as they got over the sea and our aircraft, I mean I looked up and said, ‘Starboard skipper,’ and he was on the, and there were these blooming bombs dropping down. We could have easily been hit, hit with a bomb and shot, you know, knocked from the sky. We religiously went to this area in the North Sea where you should jettison your bombs and even then that was ten tenths of cloud and skipper went down through the cloud in case there were some ships there, there wasn’t and there was splashes going on all over the place from people dropping bombs through the cloud but that was, it’s disappointing when that happened. You go there, done everything and then you bring them back or come back. Quite often, well reading my diary it happened three or four times, we got out to dispersal and the raid would be cancelled for some reason and you’d be all psyched up for it and it was disappointing not to go, you know. You had to unwind then and go back to being in a village again. I mean it was strange. It was, being out at dispersal was the worst time, I think. You didn’t know what to say, what to do and then a verey cartridge would go off. In we go. As soon as you got on board the engine started. You were alright. You were, you were there and you knew what you were going, you knew where you were going and you knew what you had to do and you’re perfectly, perfectly happy.
GC: Can you remember the moment you found out the war was over? Can you remember what that felt like?
JC: Yes. I could remember that fairly well because we went out to a pub and there was no beer and we cycled around for all afternoon and there was no beer anywhere. It was an anti-climax really. You were so used to doing that, that way of life that when it stopped you felt you’d missed it in some ghoulish sort of way. I can’t quite explain it but, I don’t know, it’s like anything that you’re doing regularly and then it suddenly stops. However horrible it was you still miss it and I did miss it, I must say but we were kept busy. We had to, well one of the nicest jobs we did was bringing back prisoners of war. We flew in a field near Brussels and twenty [emotional]. Excuse me.
GC: Do you want to stop?
JC: There was twenty four of them at a time with their little bags of stuff and one of them crashed unfortunately. I don’t know why. Whether they got, ‘cause you had to be careful where they, where they were put because of the balance of the aircraft and one of them took off and crashed almost immediately and killed everybody on board. There was twenty four POW’s and the crew which wasn’t a good sign. But that was the only action that I know of. We brought them back. I can’t remember where we brought them back to. [pause] It was a little airfield. Dunsfold. Dunsfold. And there were ladies there to see to, you know I thought there would be flags flying and all this but there was a tent and some ladies, you know Women’s Voluntary Services or something making them some tea and supposedly dishing out railway warrants and one thing and another. I thought what a homecoming. I thought they’d be all, it was strange really I, ‘cause the ones we had were all ex-aircrew, well air crew. I mean, I don’t know what they’d been through of course individually but they didn’t look at all happy about going into an aeroplane. Perhaps their memories of the last time they were in it weren’t very good and they’d left on fire or something. They didn’t look at all happy really. Tried to chat to them and then as I say when we landed they all trooped out into this tent. All very well, you know, I know I didn’t expect the band to be playing but you know, I thought there’d be -
GC: Yeah.
JC: Some officers there or something to welcome them back. Perhaps that had already been done at Brussels. I don’t know. I don’t think they’d been hanging about long. I think they, you know as soon as they were released I think they were sent to this airfield. There were a lot of them. I mean there were eighteen thousand aircrew injured or POW’s. There was about ten thousand prisoners. We were told that they had a file on us all over there. Well, a lot of us you know. We weren’t allowed to take, we had to empty our pockets completely. Not a bus ticket or a cinema ticket or anything and we had emergency pack with barley sugar and chewing gum and fishing gear. I don’t know if anyone ever did catch anything with that. Silk maps of the countryside you were going to try and get out of. A whole load of stuff in a plastic case and that’s all you had. You had to hand everything else in. That was put in a bag and you collected it when you got back. Well, people were, I mean we had lectures on all this and when you were interrogated they’d say, ‘What’s on at,’ and they’d mention your local cinema, you know, ‘What’s on at the Regal this week,’ and all this sort of thing and you’d think well if he knows that he must know this you know and it was just a way of getting information out of you but as I say we weren’t allowed to have a bus ticket or a cinema ticket or anything in your pocket. There was money in this thing as well by the way and a compass of course so you could attempt to evade. Oh that’s another thing we did on the squadron. There was escape and evasion exercises. You’d be taken out, this happened two or three times, we were taken out in lorries, there were no signposts anywhere, taken out in lorries and dropped and you had to make your way back to camp. Unfortunately, we were dropped quite close to Newark and Nottingham and places like that and a lot of people bombed off into the town [laughs] so they weren’t a hundred percent successful but I did my own evasion, escape and evasion one night. I was on the old pits not thinking of anything in particular and the skipper put his head around the door and said, ‘Anyone want to go into Newark for a pint? He said, ‘I’ve got to go in on the motorbike. I’ll bring you back.’ So no one else said, I said, ‘Yeah. Ok,’ ‘cause they had lovely fish and chips in Newark and the beer wasn’t bad either so I went on the back of the motorbike with the skipper into Newark. We arranged a rendezvous for the return, 11 o’clock I think it was or half eleven which I attended but no one else did unfortunately. He didn’t turn up. So, I’ve got a heck of a walk here, back to Fulbeck. About twelve miles I think from Newark and I didn’t know the way either. It was a network of little roads all around that part of Lincoln you know. There’s no big main road as such. Anyway, I struck off due east I think and I thought well I must eventually come across it and walked and walked and walked and eventually saw a familiar looking nissen hut and, which was the washrooms and things on the outskirts of the airfield so I knew that I was, I was home. So, I went and had a drink. I remember putting my, cupping my hands under the tap and I had a go at him the next day. He apologised. He said, ‘I’m sorry, John,’ he said, ‘Things got a bit out of hand,’ he said, ‘I couldn’t get back until later,’ So whether he did ever turned up at the rendezvous I don’t know but I walked home back to Fulbeck. That wasn’t our only walk. We walked from Nottingham to Syerston Lancaster Finishing School. That was a whole crew of us. We’d overstayed our leave a bit at, in Nottingham, missed the last train, ‘cause we used to cycled into a place, leave your bike against the wall, get on the train and I mean your bike was there the next day. Nobody pinched bikes in those days but on this occasion we had to walk all the way back to Syerston and when we got back to camp we were on the early morning flying detail. Couldn’t have been worse really. We got some breakfast and then got into the air and that was that. Oh dear oh dear. So that was, life had its ups and downs you see, Gemma. It had its up and downs. In more ways than one of course. The last raid, believe it or not, was the same place we went on the first one. We went to Norway again to a place called Tonsberg but this was another oil refinery and as we got closer, I mean we’d normally bomb at about eighteen thousand feet. Something like that. The master bomber told the force to reduce height to, I think it was fifteen and then down to ten and I thought this is silly this is and then to eight. Eight thousand feet which put you in range of all the light flak that they hose up at you and I thought, and I mean it was like, literally flying into a, you think well we’ll never get out the other side without being hit by something and as we went in a searchlight came on us and the skipper said, ‘Shoot that out, John,’ because we were so low, you see and he banked the aircraft and I fired and it went out so that was that. One searchlight less. But we went in and bombed and we came out alright but I don’t think we lost any but there were aircraft lost due to this flak but during briefing the thing came up about this searchlight and the interrogating officer said, ‘Fired at, what eight thousand feet?’ And I said, ‘Well it went out.’ I didn’t say well the skipper instructed me to fire at it but he didn’t say anything, the skipper. He should have said, ‘Well I instructed him to fire,’ but he didn’t and I thought oh well. It did go out. I thought to myself the range of these bullets is quite, quite a long way and there’s no, gravity’s going to help them on their way and if they just hear a few bullets scattering around they’ll probably put it out and they did you see. I don’t suppose I hit the light. I probably scared the living daylights out of the crew.
GC: I was going to say how aware of other squadrons were you or what else was going on in the war?
JC: Well of course you’d read the papers. You see, we were in 5 Group and people said there’s 5 Group and there’s Bomber Command and it’s true we did have our own sort of little things. We had our own corkscrew procedure which was different to Bomber Command and a lot of the raids were 5 Group squadrons like the one at Nordhausen. That was just 5 Group squadrons. But having said that I mean a lot of the raids were from everybody, you know and we all used 100 Group. They had Lancasters and Flying Fortresses and all sorts and they did all these trick things with radio to fool the Germans, you know. For two or three weeks the German night fighter force was controlled by a flying officer in Uxbridge. German speaking flying officer in Uxbridge before they twigged that, you know, they knew it was being done. There were all sorts of tricks there was, with strange names, strange code names and some aircraft had different equipment to others. 49 squadron who we were, we were with at Fulbeck had Village Inn which was a radar equipment fixed to the rear turret which showed when a fighter was coming after you which was quite handy but we never had it. But they didn’t lose any aircraft well apart from the one that I saw blow up. That was from flak. That wasn’t from fighters. They didn’t lose aircraft like we did. I saw the flight engineer from one of the crews who was shot down over Harburg and he met the German night fighter pilot who shot them down and he’d made, it was a head on attack and that’s something you don’t read in the books because you’d never get a head on attack at night cause you’d never see them quickly enough but there was so much, it was so light from all the fires and flares they were doing head on attacks. That’s remarkable isn’t it? Well the one that came after us wasn’t. It was a normal sort of attack but the sneaky thing they did they was they had a gun, an upward firing gun the JU88s musicschragge or something they called it and they used to creep under the, under you and then just fire a few rounds into your wing where your petrol tanks were. So we used to do banking searches quite frequently so you could look down and see if there was anything going on but even that they knew about of course and they’d follow you around so that wasn’t foolproof but at least they knew you were alert and you know we were having a go. Having a look. I think that helps. If there’s one that’s going straight and level and not doing anything he’d going to be an easier target than the one who’s manoeuvring about the sky. There was one, well it wasn’t amusing for the poor WAAF but we got back. I don’t know which, I can’t remember what raid it was but anyway we got back to dispersal, we’d got out of the aeroplane and we were waiting for the truck to turn up and pick us up and it duly arrived and just as she got out a JU88 came over the airfield strafing the runway and everybody and everything and we just sort of looked lazily, you know. It was just part of the night for us but she dashed in to the arms of the skipper and we gave him a cheer of course. Poor girl. She was scared out of her wits. Well it was a bit scary I suppose for her. It’s not something that usually happens and this chap was firing and doing all sorts of things and they used to drop these anti-personnel butterfly bombs all over the place which was a bit, a bit naughty I thought because they used to come in and shoot aircraft down when they were coming in to land which I thought was very uncharitable. On the coast at night there were two searchlights like that that guided you back in over Lincolnshire and we avoided them like the plague and you were supposed to put your nav lights on to avoid collisions which we never did. Never put our nav lights on so perhaps that’s the sort of reason you get away with it, you know. But collisions, there were a lot of aircraft lost through collisions. When you think of it, in the night, no lights. I remember in the mid upper turret, well I don’t know whether if we were going out or coming home but I think we were coming home and I looked up and there was another Lancaster just slowly crossing us, ever so close, I reckon if I could put our hand out I could have touched his blister, you know his H2S blister and I daren’t say anything to the skipper ‘cause if he’d have dived his tail would have come up and hit him and I thought if we just keep going we’re going to miss and so we went like that and I, just afterwards, when it had cleared, I said, ‘We just had a near miss skipper.’ Nobody else saw it. It was really really close. We were just on a slightly different course and nearly at the same height within a foot or two. So that’s another you know a bit near. If he’d been a bit lower or we’d have been a bit higher we’d have collided. Surprising how many there were when you read of the crews that were lost due to accident. A lot of them over this country. Not over there. Over this country which is a bit remarkable. You said what did we do? One thing I did do after the war we did this Exodus, Operation Exodus, bringing prisoners of war back and on another occasion the crew had to go to Italy, to Bari to bring people back from there but the gunners, for some reason, didn’t go because they wanted to get more people on board I suppose but they brought us back some cherry brandy and stuff so we didn’t mind but what I did while I got the hut free was something I wanted to do. I’d got, in the Mae West’s, you know the inflatable thing the thing that inflated them was a little CO2 bottle. It was a cast iron bottle with a little neck on and when you pulled a lever down it broke the neck off and filled the thing up with air or carbon dioxide or something. Anyway, I thought if I filled the thing up with cordite that would be an ideal jet. So I wanted to make a jet propelled glider you see because the Australians were letting stuff off. They’d got hold of something, fireworks and things and I got a, got a cartridge and emptied it and carefully fed the, because the cordite was a little, little tiny rods, put it through the hole until it filled up and then left a little trail to a safe distance of the hut, the nissen hut and this was on the concrete step aimed out into space you see. I’d made a glider out of a cornflake packet that I’d scrounged and I got this all fixed up, lit it and it sort of worked. It fizzed across the floor, lit the thing, zoomed off, the glider fluttered down a few yards away and the CO2 thing headed off towards the officers mess the other side of the airfield and so I thought it was time to pack up and go. I got on my bike and went down to the mess and read the paper.
GC: Has he always been this much of a rogue?
SP: Yes. Yes.
JC: And that was a bit of fun.
SP: Yes. You used to wave your handkerchiefs at the air you told me.
JC: The other thing we did what we found out was to if you want to evacuate a nissen hut is to get a verey cartridge and take one of the shells out of the stars and drop it down the chimney when their bogie stove was alight and that shoots the bottom out, most of the contents of the bogie stove and everybody goes flying out. It was great fun. Oh dear of dear.
GC: It’s nice to know you was taking yourselves so seriously.
JC: Pardon?
GC: It’s nice to know you was taking it all so seriously. [laughs]
JC: Well, you know you’ve got too really. Frank Johnson, we had some reunion, crew reunions after. Three or four. And Frank, the navigator said to me that he’d been approached by from some quite high authority in government with a big questionnaire about morale of air crew during the war and I and I thought about that I thought well no one was sad or anything like that. In fact we were generally up to hijinks and then Frank said, ‘I put down that, practical jokes mainly from air gunners,’ he said. [laughs]. I think we kept ourselves alive really by laughing down and of course we had quite a, beer was quite plentiful then. Not very strong unfortunately but that was a favourite pastime either in the mess or down at the local, you know the local pub in the village and we didn’t have a cinema at Fulbeck. We didn’t have very much there at all. That was a bit dead really apart from the odd pub but Bardney did. They had a cinema there and we used to see things, films there. I went back to, well a summer camp with the ATC and of course visited some of the old airfields and we were at Binbrook one year and one of the other officers wanted to go to a place that he was in during the war. Forget the name of it now. He said, ‘You were up this way John, weren’t you? I said, ‘Yeah. Bardney.’ He said, ‘That’s not all that far away.’ So we duly went to Bardney. There wasn’t much left of it then. There was the old hangars were still there and a control tower and a sad looking windsock and I said, ‘Well the pub down the hill,’ I said, ‘Was called the Jolly Sailor,’ which was known as the Hilarious Matlow when we were there and we went down and went in for a pint and it was, instead of being little rooms as it was it was one big bar which killed it really but anyway, I ordered a couple of pints up and an old boy sidled up and he said, ‘You’ve just been up at the airfield haven’t you?’ I said, ‘Yes,’ I said, ‘Do you want,’ I thought he was on the [earhole] for a pint you see so, ‘No. No. No,’ he said, ‘I don’t want a drink.’ He said, ‘I can always tell,’ he said, ‘When you come [that thing there?] he said. So I said, he said, ‘What flight were you in?’ I said, ‘A flight. Squadron Leader Stevens. Yes that’s right,’ he said, ‘I knew him,’ and he knew the wing commander. He knew. We used to rattle the stuff off his mantelpiece apparently when we took off. But he was, you know, he was a nice old boy. He was obviously one of the locals who was there during the war. He must have put up with us when we went in the pub. But it was different and I don’t even know if it’s still there now because I’ve had it up on google and I can’t even see the pub anymore. I think it’s been knocked down or something. Isn’t that dreadful?
GC: Dreadful.
JC: I don’t know. All the memories of these places. If they could tell a story.
GC: Ah but that’s what you’re doing at the moment.
JC: Yes. We, after the war we had to start on Tiger Force training for the Far East which I wasn’t looking forward to to be honest. Fighting the Japanese. They didn’t play fair did they? And it consisted of long cross countries as a squadron in a gaggle. We didn’t fly in formation. We flew in a gaggle right over France and Germany and around and home and to do that, to prepare for long flights we shared our poor old flight engineer Bert Shaw. He was due for retirement anyway I think and we got a pilot flight engineer. There were lots of spare pilots about at the time. Young lad. Never done much. They put them through a quick flight engineer’s course at St Athan and sent them to the squadrons and we had one. He was such a nice chap. I can’t think of his name. Isn’t that awful? I have a photograph of him in one of the books, war books I’ve got. Anyway, he flew with us as a flight engineer. Well on one occasion and I was now the official rear gunner by the way. I was in the rear turret. We were coming back over France and I was awake because I noticed smoke whizzing past the turret you see. So I thought, hello, something’s going wrong up front you see so I called up the skipper and said, ‘One of your engines is on fire, skipper,’ and he relayed the message to the flight engineer who was down in the bombing hatch cooking his logbook for four engine flying so when the skipper said, ‘One of your engine’s is on fire,’ he thought he was pulling his leg. He said, ‘Well you’d better put the kettle on.’ [laughs] I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘It’s getting thick here.’ And anyway he came up and shut it down and feathered the propeller and the smoke abated. Bits and pieces came past and that was that. Went home the rest of the way on three engines but that, that was funny that was. Very funny.
GC: I’m just going to stop it for a moment because I’ve just spotted -
[machine pause]
GC: Just looking at the battery. But go on.
JC: Right [pause] ok. Yes. Well we eventually poor old squadron was sent to RAF Metheringham to disband which was all very sad. We had to take our aeroplanes with us. The ground staff got there in about a quarter of an hour I suppose. We got over Metheringham and there was ten tenths of fog. Absolute thick fog and we poodled around for about half an hour. We got all our stuff on board. Bikes and things in the bomb bay and they eventually decided to light up half the Fido for us. You know the old fog intensive dispersal or something. They lit up one side and it really did work. It just burnt the fog off. We came in, landed and we were there till November kicking our heels. I only flew, I was the only one of the crew who flew again, who flew from Metheringham and I was the Squadron Leader Stevens’s rear gunner when he wanted to go somewhere and my services were called upon but that was the only time I flew from Metheringham and the crew dispersed. The skipper went flying somewhere, the bomb aimer was commissioned and went off somewhere in charge of a radar unit and we were sent to a place ‘cause I wanted to go on to Transport Command and we were sent to the MT section of a little OTU at Whitchurch. I forget the name of the RAF station but I couldn’t drive. I had to drive, I suddenly had to learn to drive because I was, I was up at the station and the billets were about a mile down the road in a disperse place and it was bitterly cold and I wanted to get some blankets for the bed so I took, I pinched a [fifteen underweight?] truck, went down to the domestic site, picked up my blankets and as I did some of the other lads came out and said, ‘Are you going back to the station?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ I said, I said, ‘I haven’t driven before.’ He said, ‘Oh it doesn’t matter.’ He said and they all piled in and I got in the front bit and drove them back. That was quite, quite a bit of a laugh there. Anyway, eventually I got on to Transport Command. I was posted to Holmsley. RAF Holmsley South, near Bournemouth. Had some fun down there. Some friends of mine took a boat out at night off the beach and got out quite a way and they realised that the people had taken the plugs out so people wouldn’t pinch the boats and they just [laughs] they had to dry out in the boiler room when they got back. And then I got posted to, we flew to Lyneham. You’ve all heard of Lyneham. That was the big transport place. We were there about a week and then I was posted to Waterbeach. RAF Waterbeach which was the nearest I ever got to home, as an air quartermaster flying with different crews. There were two flights we did there. There was United Kingdom - Changi in a York. That was in Singapore. And to Delhi with the freight. Freight run. And that, that was great fun. I did quite a few trips. It took five days to get to Singapore and a days there and five days back but we never did it in eleven days. There was always something went wrong. We had more trouble with Yorks than we ever had on Lancasters. I mean we only had that just one engine fire but with the Yorks we had to fly from the passenger run was from Lyneham because we’d go, we went from Waterbeach to Lyneham, picked up the passengers and went through customs and everything and the first leg was down to Luqa, RAF Luqa in Malta and from there to Habbaniya in Iraq and then to Maripur in India, down to Ceylon as it was and then across to Changi in Singapore. That was five legs. Getting up earlier and earlier every morning because you were losing time you see and then you had a day off and then you reversed it coming back but as I say we never did it. We had various problems. One of the engines seized up over the Med coming across to Malta. So we stuck at Malta for a week which was great fun of course. The only thing else, oh I was often the only NCO in the crew. The rest were all commissioned you know and they’d be in the mess and I’d be in the sergeant’s mess but apart from that it was alright. We all used to meet up during the day. The first trip I ever did we went, we got to Malta and they said, ‘You’re coming with us, John.’ So changed in to civvies. They took me down to Valetta, sat me outside a café place, table and chairs and they brought out something I hadn’t seen, of course, since the beginning of the war which was a plate of fancy cakes, ‘There you are, John,’ they said, ‘Tuck in.’ So it was all things like that. Things we hadn’t seen let alone eaten. That was good fun though flying like that but they, it was a bit dodgy especially the last leg from Ceylon to Changi. It was around Malaya there was terrific cumulous clouds. I mean these days they just fly over the top but we couldn’t get up there so you had, you couldn’t go through it because they was too dangerous. They could just pick you up and chuck you all over the place and so you had to go underneath and that wasn’t always very practical so there were some dodgy bits. The other time we had a bit of trouble it was a freighting run and we were coming back across the Mediterranean to Lyneham from where was it? Castel Benito. That’s right, in Libya and I noticed, just freighting run this was and I noticed the port inner engine, the exhaust which I could see very plainly from the window didn’t look right to me. It was, it was the wrong sort of colour you know and as the flight progressed so it got brighter and brighter and I got the skipper to come down and have a look. Ivor Lupton. I’ll always remember his name and he had a look. He said, ‘Keep an eye on it, John and if it gets any worse tell me.’ Well it did get worse. Flames started coming out of it so the flight engineer shut it down, feathered it and we made an emergency landing at an airfield called Estree in France where they hadn’t got any Merlin engines and we were stuck there for a week and had great fun there. We were in the transit mess but it wasn’t too bad. The food was alright and I paid a flying visit to Marseilles with, I can’t remember, was it the navigator or the wireless op? Anyway, he’d obviously got some business going on in, where’s the name of the place. Oh dear isn’t that awful? I’ve forgotten the name of the place on the coast of France further east. I said, ‘How are we going to get there?’ He said, ‘We’ll hitch.’ So we got on the road and we hitched and an old French car stopped, got in the back and the driver complete with, he hadn’t got any onions but that was the only thing he hadn’t got. And we went hurtling off in this old car through little villages, chickens scattering, you know. It was like something out of a film and, Marseilles that’s where we went and we eventually got there and he did his, what he had to do, got some nefarious thing going on. I had a wander around just and then we came back by the same method, getting a hitch. The French were delighted to give us a lift but they were very old cars and very dangerous and they’d be talking to you with their head, and we thought yeah, have an occasional look [laughs]. So that was a very adventurous time we had on the, on the Yorks. There was one or two incidents where we had a bit of bother but you know it was exciting part. Nice. I was rather sad to leave it all really but I thought well they won’t want air quartermasters forever. They’re called dolly birds now aren’t they but I had to work out, even on the passenger run, I had to work out the weight and balance clearance and all that sort of stuff so that the centre of gravity of the aircraft fell between two points so I had to find the water, weight of water, petrol and everything and passengers and you know it was quite an important job but I enjoyed it so I was rather sad when the last, the last thing came which involved, not for me personally but involved a rather dramatic encounter with HM customs but I can’t go in to that now. We haven’t got enough battery left [laughs]
GC: [?]
JC: So there we are. My RAF career in a nutshell.
GC: Well can I just say it has been an absolute pleasure and a great honour. That has been beautiful. Thank you very much.
JC: Pleasure.
GC: Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with John Cuthbert
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Gemma Clapton
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-07
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Sound
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ACuthbertJ160507
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
John Cuthbert joined the RAF and initially trained as a wireless operator / air gunner but re-mustered as an air gunner. After training he was posted to 189 Squadron at RAF Fulbeck and flew operations as a mid-upper gunner. He talks about his light-hearted experiences with his crew as well as some of the tragedies he saw.
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Julie Williams
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Germany
Norway
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Karlsruhe
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
Format
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02:06:23 audio recording
189 Squadron
49 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bombing
crewing up
fear
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
military living conditions
military service conditions
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
radar
RAF Bardney
RAF Fulbeck
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Wainfleet
Scarecrow
searchlight
Stirling
superstition
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/259/10573/BWhittleGGWhittleGGv1.2.pdf
4366a07d114b2ea1d93d31fa5bb69f5a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Whittle, Geoffrey
G G Whittle
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-26
2016-08-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Whittle, G
Description
An account of the resource
12 items. An oral history interview with Squadron Leader Geoffrey Gordon Whittle DFM (1923 – 2016, 1397166 Royal Air Force), as well as his log books, photographs and memoirs.
Geoffrey Whittle flew operations as a navigator with 101 Squadron from RAF Ludford Magna.
There is a sub-collection of 25 Air Charts, mostly of Great Britain.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Denise Field and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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Sqn. Ldr. Geoffrey Whittle, DFM RAF (Ret’d)
On reaching the age of 18 in September 1941I volunteered for aircrew duties and was accepted for training as an Observer. Called up in March 1942 I undertook all of my training, which was brief to say the least, in the United Kingdom. Flying training was undertaken in Scotland during the months of November 1942/February1943, not in the best weather conditions but a very good introduction to things to come.
Passing out at a wings parade on 1st March 1943 I left that evening for 27 OTU Litchfield which started the following day. There I crewed up with my Pilot and W/AG and converted to the Wellington aircraft. That was followed by conversion to the Lancaster at Lindholm in Yorkshire. It was at Lindholm that the full crew complement was made up.
At the end of training in June we were posted to 101 Squadron based at Ludford Magna, a wartime airfield near Louth. At that time I had completed 200 flying hours one third of which was at night. Our first first operation,two nights after joining the Squadron, was a mine laying sortie to La Rochelle and our first raid on Germany was to Cologne.
As part of Bomber Command we took part in operations against Berlin, Nuremberg, Turin and Peenemunde, the German Flying Bomb Research Establishment which put back the German Flying Bomb attacks on the UK by several months.
On our 15th operation against Hannover, near to the target the aircraft was caught by searchlights attacked by a night fighter and ground AA fire all within seconds which resulted in severe damage that included an engine fire and also one within the fuselage. We managed to evade our attackers attack the target and get home. As a result all the crew were decorated with immediate awards of 2 Conspicuous Gallantry Medals, 1 DFC and 4 DFMs.
Unfortunately, on our 16th operation I suffered a perforated eardrum and was hospitalised. On their 19th trip flying with a replacement navigator the crew was shot down and 5 of the crew were killed, The Pilot and WAG survived and became POWs.
Whilst in hospital my Commission was Gazetted back dated 27th September.
After six months ground duty I returned to flying with a height restriction of 8000 feet to became part of the Air Sea Rescue Service before being earmarked for the Tiger Force scheduled to go to the Far East (which never materialised due to the war ending). In the years after the war (with a full flying category restored) I served in Aden, Egypt and Germany in a variety of roles.
I attended the RAF Staff College at Bracknell in 1959 and was then posted to Fighter Command HQ at Bentley Priory from where I took early retirement in the rank of Squadron Leader in December 1961
I initially went into banking but decided the life was not to my liking so joined NAAFI as a Trainee District Manager. During my 26 years with the Corporation I spent 18 years overseas serving in Cyprus, Libya, Singapore, Berlin and Gan and visiting several other countries like Nepal, India and Bangladesh. My final appointment was as a Departmental Manager at NAAFI Headquarters in London from where I retired in1988.
Settled in Hampshire I became a District Councillor in 1989 for East Hampshire, and after moving to Lincolnshire in January 2007, I became a District Councillor for North Kesteven Distrct Council.
Now living at Ruskington where both my son and daughter also reside I have been very lucky to have had a varied and interesting career, seen many parts of the world and now live in a lovely village with my family nearby.
Reflecting on my time in Bomber Command I had the upmost admiration for those older aircrew who had families (my pilot was 33 years old with a family). I was young ---and if not flying just enjoyed life.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Sqn. Ldr Geoffrey Whittle, DFM RAF (Ret'd)
Description
An account of the resource
A brief memoir of Geoffrey Whittle's wartime service. His training started in March 1942 in Scotland. One year later he converted to Wellingtons, then Lancasters at RAF Lindholme. He was then posted to RAF Ludford Magna. On his 15th operation over Hanover they were attacked by a night fighter and anti-aircraft fire but they managed to return. After the war he served in Germany and the Middle East. He left the RAF in 1961 and worked for the Navy, Army and Air Force Institute overseas until he retired in 1988.
Creator
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Geoffrey Whittle
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BWhittleGGWhittleGGv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Hannover
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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Two typewritten pages
101 Squadron
27 OTU
air sea rescue
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
Conspicuous Gallantry Medal
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Flying Medal
Lancaster
navigator
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Operational Training Unit
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Lichfield
RAF Lindholme
RAF Ludford Magna
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/792/10773/ADavisAW180116.2.mp3
6f54de70999539d29257311a60350c69
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Davis, Alan William
A W Davis
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan William Davis (1922 - 2021, 425834 Royal New Zealand Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-01-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Davis, AW
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: This is Tuesday the 16th of January 2018, and I am at the home of Alan William Davis, born 25 July 1922, in Rangiora, New Zealand, RNZAF wireless operator/air gunner, NZ 425834, Warrant Officer, near Amberley, Christchurch, in New Zealand. Alan joined the RNZAF in 1942. He trained in Canada and joined 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mepal, in March 1945. He completed nine operations, three Manna drops, three Exodus and several Baedeker trips, then moving to Spilsby in July for Tiger Force training. Alan returned after war’s cessation and, to New Zealand, in December of 1945. Alan thank you for welcoming me into your home. Can you give me a little bit of your memories of why you wanted to join the Air Force and where you did your training?
AD: Well mainly I think I had the choice of either the Army or the Air Force, I decided to go in the Air Force, but I also did three months in the Army, beforehand.
GT: Where did you join up and where did you do your training in New Zealand?
AD: Went up to Ohakea for a start, in the Air Force Defence Unit, and then we went to Rotorua, to learn wireless, Morse Code and so forth. Then unfortunately I had to have my tonsils out and I didn’t go with the group that I was supposed to, to Canada, I didn’t go till three months later. So I only ever saw one of the original group I was with, in England.
GT: Whereabouts did you do your training in Canada?
AD: Calgary and then we went to Mossbank, for gunnery.
GT: So you did a mixture of the wireless operator and gunnery training, and effectively you -
AD: Yes. The Bolingbrokes and such like.
GT: Became a wireless operator. What was the Bolingbroke like?
AD: Oh, they weren’t bad, course everything was covered in snow then. It was quite interesting, I was quite good at shooting.
GT: Excellent. Did you get excellent?
AD: Well I come third out of about four hundred with competition with all different weapons, machine guns and revolvers and some others.
GT: And then once you’d completed your training, you sailed across the Atlantic to England. Eventful? Did you, any German submarines around?
AD: No, the boat went on its own, it wasn’t in a convoy and I was on the rocket guns. What I was supposed to do I don’t know, [chuckle] but they got me on those and we arrived. It was Isle de France, the boat we went on. Don’t know what happened to it later on, I think it burnt, caught fire in the harbour somewhere.
GT: And that was a luxurious cruise ship, wasn’t it. When you arrived in England they put you on to training units and you crewed up, that was -
AD: No, they didn’t, we went down to Brighton, and was there for a while and then they shipped us up to the North East coast of England, I can’t just remember the place, because D-Day was, getting ready for that. When we come back, everyone, and we crewed up and went to Westcott and Oakley and Bottesford for conversion.
GT: Yep. Your log book here has you at 11 OTU in the July and August, September of 1944. Can you remember when you crewed up? How did you meet up with your skipper and your other?
AD: Oh, we were just lining up there and the captain was sort of, the skipper was more or less picking the chaps he wanted. We had about one, two, three, four; started from the original one, the other three, the flight engineer, the bomb aimer - we were a bit hard on bomb aimers - ended up four of ‘em, and the mid upper gunner, he was changed.
GT: I see you did all your training on Wellington aircraft here, and your final tally and summary at Oakley, Westcott and 11 OTU all together, a total of eighty seven hours there. So from there you moved on to your Heavy Conversion Unit, so can you tell us a little bit about your movement to Lancasters from there?
AD: Yes. The first time we went up in Lancaster with the instructor, I looked out the left hand side and I saw two engines stopped. I looked out the other side and there was another one stopped: was flying on one engine! Saying don’t be worried, it was, still fly on one engine! Bit nervous for a start. [Chuckle]
GT: The pilot was stopping an engine for?
AD: Yes, just more or less showing our pilot that the plane was quite safe on one engine.
GT: And that was at Bottesford, 1668 HCW, HCU RAF Bottesford. And you were there from the beginning of December ’44 until the end of February ’45.
AD: Yeah. About six weeks longer than we should have been because bomb aimer trouble, one didn’t return.
GT: He went away on leave and didn’t come back.
AD: No. Waited round for weeks, they gave us a chap who’d already done a tour and he absolutely had the DT’s. He was shaking and hard to understand so after a while they took him off, gave us another one, he was quite good and then he got wounded on our fifth bombing trip, had to replace him.
GT: Gosh. From your HCU did you have a choice of where you were going to go? What squadron?
AD: No, they just, I can’t remember, I think we just went to 75.
GT: And your first flight, and first indeed operation, was on the 6th of March,1945.
AD: Wing Commander [indecipherable].
GT: Wing Commander [indecipherable] was your skipper, as wireless op, you finished and did there all the trips as a wireless op I see. So your first war op was the oil refineries at Salzbergen. Any trips of yours eventful were they?
AD: Yes. The fifth one where the bomb aimer was wounded, we lost, we had a bit of problems with the engine, wouldn’t hold, the inside left engine wouldn’t hold its revs. We went to briefing and the flight engineer said we’d take the, the engineer in charge or something said we’d take the spare aircraft. And when they finished briefing they said well they changed all the plugs on the original plane on the offending engine, so we took it. After we got over the English Channel a bit it started to misbehave, I thought was going to jump off the wing it was jumping around that much. Was misfiring so we had to feather it and then we had a discussion amongst the crew whether we’d drop our bombs and go back home or carry on, so we all agreed to carry on, but of course had to find our own way to the target, cause we couldn’t keep up with the others.
GT: It was successful in the end?
AD: [Indecipherable] Of course we got shot up, we saw three of our own planes shot down, we didn’t realise they were our squadron, till after we got home. One of the crews shared our hut. Some of them parachuted, pilot and the flight engineer they were down, watched it go all the way. Wasn’t on fire, it wasn’t smoking, it was just going like that, all the way down.
GT: Weaving from side to side.
AD: Went down. Splash of flame. Counted them as they jumped, there was five of them got out. There was one of them got there ready to jump and realised he had his parachute.
GT: What was the normal procedure if the crew was lost or missing? Did someone come in and collect all their belongings?
AD: Yes, it happened to us twice. The other crew, they crashed in training at Bottesford, and we heard them talking on the intercom, you know, like the what’you call it? The?
GT: Control tower?
AD: Control Tower, yeah. Evidently he wasn’t, the pilot wasn’t too good at night vision; he was trying to land too high. They told him to go round again. We got in and landed and were standing out on the runway waiting for the truck, saw this, saw this great flash of flame about three mile away, then the boom! When we got back to our hut the service police were there getting all their belongings.
GT: Just a training flight, too. So you completed nine war ops in total. Was any one of them outstanding in your mind?
AD: Just that one where we got shot up.
GT: What were you shot up by?
AD: Anti aircraft. Crack! Crack! Boy!
GT: You remember it.
AD: I remember it, getting closer and closer, you could hear them. When we went there we didn’t think we’d get through there were that many puffs of smoke about our height, there’d be be an odd one or two, all wee bit higher and off a bit, but boy, they were, they were thick.
GT: So you also carried out, and were part of, Operation Manna and were you briefed on what that was all about and what was to happen when you got there?
AD: The food dropping? We probably were but I can’t remember anything about it, really. Just except the flying there.
GT: And you were told that the Germans wouldn’t be shooting at you at all?
AD: Well, you don’t want take any risk, we’re supposed to come in at certain heights and get out soon as we dropped it, no buggering around, but we went down to Italy, I’ll tell you about that. Lucky we’re here!
GT: Oh well tell us about this trip, the trip to Italy, which one was that?
AD: [Laugh] No. That was after the war!
GT: Okay, so the Operation Manna stuff, you were told later on that it was to save the starving Dutch people.
AD Yes, we probably knew from the beginning, yes. Of course a lot of the country was flooded: the Germans opened the dykes and that. We’d see these dykes going along and just dirty water covering all over, see people walking along the banks.
GT: You predominantly did day sorties and I see you did one night.
AD: We did a pre run of it.
GT: What was the difference for you? As a wireless operator, no difference between day and night, did it matter?
AD: Well night was a bit creepy, see a few things going past your window. Night time, cause day time have a good look.
GT: Time to get out the way. Did you have any aircraft above you, that could have dropped a bomb through you or anything?
AD: No, the strange thing about those two planes just out from us, cause what happened, the, when we couldn’t keep up with the squadron, we just went, because DH bombing we just went straight to the target and evidently the others, they were a bit ahead of their time, so they did a dog leg and they come in like that, we were here and couldn’t actually see their letters, see what was going on, one just dropped his bombs, beautiful line! How the hell he got them in line, you know, just the little one, big cookie on top, and the next thing they disappeared and the plane just completely blew to pieces, just like confetti. And then just a short while afterwards, another one, the engine dropped out of. The engineer was [indecipherable] I remember calling out the rest of them and saying the propeller was still going round, suppose they hadn’t used up the fuel yet, then the wing come off and down he went, and then shortly afterwards that other one started going like that and they were jumping out of it.
GT: And you said they were all 75 Squadron.
AD: Yeah. Three of them. That book I’ve got there shows that the planes above dropped [indecipherable] there dropped the bombs must of went off when got hit by a shell or what, cause bombs, they’ll explode just dropped out of a bomb bay on the ground! Real disaster one place there, three people, blew the plane to pieces and about nine others were destroyed.
GT: Was this at Mepal?
AD: No, no another aerodrome.
GT: You’d been told about it?
AD: No, read about it recent.
GT: It certainly happened. Now, you also managed to do some prisoner repatriation.
AD: Yes, we did four of those.
GT: Guys were pretty pleased to see you, weren’t they.
AD: Yeah, Juvencourt I thought, I actually bought a map in Paris when we were there this last time, so I could find out where Juvencourt was, I just thought it was not far inland, but it’s quite a far way, but I can’t find the map.
GT: Short way by aircraft, isn’t it. Just a point of note, the supply dropping sorties, your aircraft did, your crew did: one was Rotterdam and two was The Hague. And then from there you did a mixture of Juvencourt to Tangmere, and also the Baedekers, the post mortems, and that bit of Army co-op bit of variation. What was the Baedekers about?
AD: Oh, they used to go up the Ruhr valley, take the Air Ministry staff and that, most of them looked out the window to start then a bit seasick [chuckle] and then flight engineer used to carry a tin, treacle tin and he called it the tin-rin-tin-shitin. Remember, I don’t know whether you remember just about the wartime there was a thing on the radio about Rintin this wonder dog, that’s how he got the name and he was busy passing that between the different people. [laugh]
GT: Crazy, well your last time on 75 New Zealand Squadron was pretty much the end of July. Your total hours by day were over twenty two hours there, so you did a fair bit towards the end there, especially when there were so many crews vying for flying wasn’t there, must have had so many there, and obviously the war in Europe had finished so you were then shifted to Spilsby.
AD: Well we had to volunteer, an all New Zealand Squadron.
GT: British, Australians and Canadians left.
AD: Yep. Mac MacDonald, Flight Lieutenant.
GT: So you volunteered for that; you were asked directly?
AD: Yes, volunteered for it.
GT: Okay, so your first flight, Lancaster-wise, from Spilsby, 3rd of August, mixture of cross country and formation flying and you also managed a couple of flights here, three at least, in the new Lincolns, the white Lincolns, 75 New Zealand Squadron had three delivered to them by the time VJ Day came around so, they were taking them out to the Asian theatre. What was the Lincolns like compared to the Lancasters?
AD: Well, it was quite longer wingspan, wings, when it was flying about like that, when it was [indecipherable] it was the Lancaster that stayed [indecipherable].
GT: Was the wireless equipment upgraded for the Lincoln?
AD: Nah, I think it was much the same.
GT: Didn’t affect you much between the two types of aircraft.
AD: I think we were the last ones to fly, 75 Squadron in England. [Indecipherable] and us, we went down to farewell the Troop ship.
GT: The Andes?
AD: Andes. Actually it’s in one of those things there: we’re the bottom one.
GT: You’re the second plane in that picture?
AD: If I hadn’t have gone with our crew I would have gone with [indecipherable] because he asked me to be his wireless operator, but unfortunately we went to Berlin and the same thing happened: our crews went. So I went with our crew.
GT: So that was your last flight was 23rd September 1945 in the Lincoln, and it was AA-A, based Southampton, that was for the Andes overflight. But I see further up here just before that, on the 19th of September you talked about the base to Bari in Italy trip.
AD: Nearly ended up in disaster!
GT: So what was that about?
AD: Well, we saw this [indecipherable] farmer ploughing with two horses, so dived on them, I can see the old farmer now, shaking his fist, and he was hanging on to the reins, and the horses went faster and faster and finally they bolted. He went along low flying in the countryside, big high tension lines there and he was having a discussion with the flight engineer and he saying well we’ll go over these or will we go under and last moment he pulled up and hit one of the wires. Didn’t believe us for a start, I saw it, cause I saw the inflight and the rear gunner said yes, you’ve cut them. But, so then they started wondering what the hell they were going to tell the engineering staff because the propeller would have a mark on it. Sure enough, when we landed there was quite a gouge out of one propeller blade it the long bit. Lucky it wasn’t the big heavy cables, was the lighter ones we hit.
GT: Brought you down.
AD: It would have brought us down.
GT: Well, so that pretty much is, was the end of your flying of World War Two there.
AD: I think that was the last flight of 75 Squadron in England.
GT: It would have been.
AD: Almost certain it was.
GT: 23rd of September 1945.
AD: We left the next day I think. We broke up the next day or something.
GT: You left everything sitting at Spilsby.
AD: Pardon?
GT: Left all the aircraft sitting around at Spilsby.
AD: Yes, well, shame, specially all those herring gutted Lancasters they used to carry those twenty two thousand pound bombs. One place, I think it was Spilsby, there was quite a few of them there.
GT: Grand Slams.
AD: Yeah. All they were real odd looking cause they had no bomb doors, they just sort of come up and went along and down.
GT: You guys weren’t flying those.
AD: No.
GT: They were just sitting there.
AD: Yep.
GT: 100 Squadron, 207 Squadron were flying from there. The Spilsby Monument, Memorial, has a mention of an armament crew that were blown up at the bomb dump there. Did that happen when you were there? But, so how did you get back to New Zealand then if the Andes had already gone? Did they put you on another ship?
AD: Yeah, Montcalm, there’s a photo down the bedroom of it. It did a sort of odd course, it brought quite a few British soldiers out to Suez and then it went back to Taranto in Italy, I thought it unloaded them there, or did something, pick some others up and then come back to Suez and then went through the canal, you know, picked up quite a few New Zealand soldiers on the other side.
GT: And when you got back to New Zealand did you demob straight away or you on the Reserve?
AD: Yes, we just went off, well I went on leave. Reserve for several years.
GT: You weren’t called up then?
AD: No, didn’t get called up.
GT: And you’ve been a farmer all your life, is that right?
AD: Actually I declined any assistance and filled in the form on the ship there, and then one of my, brother-in-law said you bloody fool fella, so I applied and I went to about four or five farms and finally found this place.
GT: How many acres did you have in the end?
AD: Five, it was five hundred and forty five. Another chap on, he went away on the ship and came back on the same ship as I did, Harry Denton, I didn’t know him then, he got the other half.
GT: So how many sheep and cattle were you grazing on a that kind of size?
AD: Oh, I had over a thousand sheep. I had up to two and a half thousand at one stage and then we had quite a lot of cattle and calves. Interesting reading through my old diaries, see I used to keep diaries.
GT: How old will you be next birthday?
AD: I’ll be ninety six.
GT: Ninety six, ninety seven, ninety six?
AD: Or more, I don’t know, it’s a bugger since my legs have started going on me, I started wearing that, up there, oh there, that riding helmet, save my head a bit [indecipherable] you feel a bit of a flash sometimes, just lasts a moment or two.
GT: So at your grand age now, you’re still mucking about on the farm and here we are in Amberley, New Zealand in mid January and the temperatures are rising to close to thirty degrees Celsius, which is pretty wicked here this time of year in New Zealand.
AD: Yes, I know.
GT: Alan, it’s a pleasure again catching up with you and thanks very much for talking to me and this will, an interview going to the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archives and you’re certainly a part of Bomber Command and you having completed operations, Baedekers, Mannas and Exoduses, you did the whole bunch really, that was pretty awesome.
AD: I had quite a good career, lucky with, we did crash a Wellington, went off the runway into a ditch, petrol running everywhere and got out at t a hell of ate and I got into trouble because I didn’t grab the secret code books, well I couldn’t see, was pitch dark and the poor erk that was riding a bike round the perimeter, he was the only person I’ve ever seen who was incoherent, he was babbling away and couldn’t hear a word, didn’t know what he was saying, we damn near run over him! [Laughter] Poor Bugger! Horse galloping round in the paddock next to him.
GT: No regrets, you served your King and your country and you were happy in the end to, with your achievements.
AD: I had a great experience. I’ve been back and visited two of the crew; last time I went back I couldn’t find any of them, rear gunner, Scott, and the navigator. Harry Denton, up here, when he was up here, with some of his crew; I think one of his crew got the VC! And also the, some of the Germans that shot him down, they come out here too and visit him. I’m not too sure whether I met them or not. I met some of the, his crew. Come out here twice I think.
GT: You’re former enemies and you’ve become friends, and that’s the case through most of time.
AD: I’ve been to Germany and had a look at the, some of the wartime graves there. Actually the chap who was supposed to inherit this farm, Lawrence Croft, he was in the Air Force too. I think he got blown out of the bomb aimer’s, I think it was him. I think also one of the wife’s cousins, Albert Chipping, I think he got blown out too.
GT: That was the thing, many of these folk came back to New Zealand and went straight back into working and many of the folk that were still here didn’t know anything of what you guys went through. Did you find that a big problem?
AD: Not really, no.
GT: The folk that you dealt with, worked with.
AD: I suppose it was still a job we had to do. Used to go down at night, have our pints.
GT: What were the, sorry, I meant to ask, what were the pubs around Mepal that you liked?
AD: Oh yeah. We stopped at one there.
GT: Chequers?
AD: Oh Chequers, we used to go to that one, Sutton, and then there used to be, one old Percy had it, at Haddenham, cause there was Haddenham up here, then Sutton here and Mepal over here and there was there used to be a road connecting them, course they closed it when the aerodrome, when the runway went across it.
GT: And you had Witchford.
AD: Quite a bit different now, bit hard to find the landmarks.
GT: Well Mepal Gardens have a Memorial for 75 New Zealand Squadron there.
AD: Yeah, they shifted it from where they actually put it, when, in 1978 when they dedicated it, shifted to another.
GT: Well cared for little garden, that’s for sure.
AD: Pardon?
GT: It’s a well cared for little garden. And 75 Squadron Association in the UK, friends, they hold a reunion twice a year right there, so all your colleagues are well remembered. Okay Alan, let’s sign off. I thank you very much for your interview, your thoughts, your memories and thank you for your service for your King and your country, and your sacrifice. Thank you very much.
AD: One of the lucky ones and it was an experience.
GT: Definitely lucky. Thank you, Alan.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alan William Davis
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Glen Turner
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ADavisAW180116
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:31:14 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Alan Davis joined the RNZAF towards the end of the war, training in Canada as a wireless operator and air gunner. He returned to the UK and after conversion to Lancasters was posted to 75 New Zealand Squadron. Alan tells of his training, crew changes and loss of colleagues as well as different operation and experiences. After the war he returned home and settled as a farmer, sometimes returning overseas and seeing old friends.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
France--Île-de-France
France--Reims Region
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
11 OTU
1668 HCU
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bottesford
RAF Mepal
RAF Oakley
RAF Spilsby
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/319/8294/MRaettigDW1136657-160623-22.1.pdf
ed55a12d87a11c37fabdd52edcf65b3a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Raettig, Dennis
Dennis William Raettig
Dennis W Raettig
D W Raettig
D Raettig
Description
An account of the resource
72 items. The collection concerns the wartime service of Leading Aircraftman Dennis William Raettig (b. 1920, 1136657 Royal Air Force). Joining the Royal Air Force reserve in 1941 he trained as a flight mechanic (Engines) before being posted to 104 Squadron (Wellingtons) at RAF Driffield. This squadron number was later changed to 158 Squadron flying Halifax at RAF East Moor, followed by moves to RAF Rufford and Lisset. The collection consists of a memoir, correspondence with family and acquaintances, family history, service and personal documentation, lucky charms,personal items, cap, boots, squadron tie, research on bombing in Hull as well as photographs of air and ground crew and aircraft. It also includes an oral history interview with Joan Raettig (Dennis Raettig's wife).
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sue Burn and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-23
2016-07-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Raettig, DW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
RAF volunteer reserve (wireless operator/air gunner section) notes for the information of candidates
Description
An account of the resource
Information for candidates including age limits, nationality, education, classes ineligible, residence in UK, serving in other branches, selection and medical, period of engagement, rank, liabilities, service with foreign power, discharge, training, discipline, financial, travelling, uniform, pension, disabilities, insurance, applications and entry to regular Air Force.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1939-01
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Eight page printed booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MRaettigDW1136657-160623-22
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Air Ministry
aircrew
military service conditions
recruitment
training
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2245/42043/EBrownREMarshallG750901 copy.2.2.jpg
b4be90d1a46613e4daf525714482cd53
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pexman, Kenneth Richard
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. The collection concerns Sergeant Kenneth Richard Pexman (1920-<span>1942</span>, 1202557 Royal Air Force) and contains documents, correspondence and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 9 Squadron and was killed 31 May 1942. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jill Crowther and catalogued by Lynn Corrigan.<br /><br /><span data-contrast="none" xml:lang="EN-GB" lang="EN-GB" class="TextRun SCXW73459688 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW73459688 BCX0">Additional information on Kenneth Richard Pexman</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW73459688 BCX0"> is available via the</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW73459688 BCX0" data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":200,"335559740":276}"> <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/222243/">IBCC Losses Database.</a></span>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-11
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Pexman, KR
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter from Ministry of Defence to G Marshall
Description
An account of the resource
To Kenneth's brother in law regarding aircraft crash. Provides details of his grave and surviving crew members; Sergeant S A Langton, pilot; Sergeant T G Welsh, observer; Sergeant J Haworth, wireless operator and air gunner and Sergeant J Johnson, rear gunner.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Ministry of Defence
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1975-09-19
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-05-31
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Belgium--Retie
Belgium--Antwerp
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One-page typewritten letter with annotations
Identifier
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EBrownREMarshallG750901
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
9 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
crash
final resting place
killed in action
observer
pilot
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner