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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1376/24329/MFordTA1585520-170411-14.2.pdf
0acf2c189aab6d3d793b1066ff56da7a
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Title
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Ford, Terry
Ford, T
Description
An account of the resource
135 items. The collection concerns Terry Ford. He flew operations as a pilot with 75 Squadron. It contains photographs, his log book, operational maps, letters home during training, and documents including emergency drills. There are two albums of photographs, one of navigation logs, and another of target photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Julia Burke and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-03-13
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Ford, T
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[Drawing of an aircraft flying over a single gravestone]
The Flying Gopher
SEPTEMBER 1942
[Page break]
[Advert for the Dickson Hotel and Café]
[Advert for Rialto Billiards]
[Page break]
Officers’ Mess
Gossip
CENSORED
Space donated by …
WARREN’S DRUG STORE
1
[Page break]
[Advert for Commercial Café]
[Advert for Walker Fruit]
[Page break]
[Drawing of an aircraft flying over a single gravestone]
The Flying Gopher
The Journal of The Royal Air Force, No,41, Service Flying Training School,
Weyburn, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Published by the Kind Permission of Group Captain E.C. Emmett, M.C., D.F.C.
VOL. 1. SEPTEMBER, 1942 No. 4
Editorial
[Drawing of a thoughtful gopher with writing quill at a desk]
There are some changes this month – as doubtless you have noticed. Changes both apparent and inward have affected the production of the fourth edition of your Flying Gopher. Note the cover, for instance, which we hope will have more appeal to the casual eye. It’s a plain cover, we admit, but it has caused almost as much headache as all the inside pages put together. We were loath to part with the vastness, and yet our title required more punch. There you have it, and if anyone has any further ideas, bring them along.
Turning to the first page, the reader will notice that the seed catalogue which graced that prominent place is conspicuous by its absence. Names are boring at the best of times and we are sure that the contents page was merely a waste of space – you don’t pick your articles, you read the lot, don’t you, dear readers?
Further along it is to be noticed that more variety is embodied in the make-up of the pages. Like the idea? We do wish you would let us know. There must be a good deal of improvement which can be made if everyone’s minds were turned to it instead of just the few who edit the magazine.
Finally it was suggested that while we were making sweeping changes we might as well cut out the editorial. But no, a place to let off a little steam is a good thing to have here, and anyway, by omitting the editorial we would be forced to throw away the cut of our Editor-in-Chief, the Gopher and we think it’s such a lervely picture…!
THE EDITORS.
3
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[Advert for Duncan & Russell]
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Doc Vyse Forgets
[Drawing of a doctor with stethoscope and syringe]
The title may seem a strange departure from the reminiscences which have appeared opposite the rather compromising cartoons firmly incorporated in recent issues of The Flying Gopher, but don’t let the title mislead you.
Any man who sits at a service office desk knows that a small oversight may start a long chain of complaints descending upon his head by telephone and expedite signal until nearly every section at the station is involved. So forgetfulness doesn’t pay. My experience has been an exception. I recall with chagrin the occasion some two years ago when S.M.O. Group visited the Sick Quarters I was nursing. In the excitement of night calls to the Tarmac and ministering to an exceptionally sick padre, I forgot the approaching S.M.O’s. visit, and with the result that lamp shades, overhead office shelves and doorway ledges didn’t get the extra polish they had the right to expect. After what I thought was a pretty satisfactorily conducted inspection, the S.M.O. planted himself in front of the office fire and summarized, “Well, Vyse, I can’t congratulate you… ,” an anticipatory smile must have crept over my face as he continued, “Yes, I must congratulate you on having the Filthiest Sick Quarters I have ever seen.” Incidentally I did not forget this incident when I visited this S.M.O. twelve months later when he was a patient in hospital.
However it is generally accepted that one forgets unpleasant incidents in one’s life, which probably explains the delusion under which certain people labour when they assert that their school days were the happiest in their lives. My opinion is that the honest man who is interested in his job will admit that there is no time like the present. Maybe it is difficult to count our blessings until afterwards, but I have a shrewd idea that in years to come many of us will be talking as warmly of our visit to Canada, our stay in Weyburn and our weekend visits to Regina or the Lake and certainly our friend, the Gopher, as we now fondly recall the rain of Manchester, or the rumble of London. And I don’t think the apparent change of heart will be entirely due to the pint of “old and mild” that may accompany the reminiscing.
[Signature]
5
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The R.A.F. Comes to the Wild West
Let us consider Weyburn as it was before the blue of R.A.F. uniforms began dotting the streets of our illustrious city. The burg is bereft of its young men, its old men, its middle aged men,- in fact of almost anything given to wearing long trousers, excluding masculine-minded females. Our life is a mere existence, and a drab one at that – rising in the morning to do our small and dolorous daily tasks – wandering down to the Inevitable Club for a Coke – trying to lend an appreciative ear to some slapstick comedian on the radio or a jitterbug jive – listening with longing ears to a broadcast from our boys in the services.
Then came rumours, floating here and there through the district, carried on “I-don’t-know-whether-it’s-true, -but-that’s-what-I-heard” wings, and soon spreading thick and fast in the female-filled city, to the effect that the R.A.F. were soon to fill with their charm the inconspicuous city of Weyburn. Some disbelieved, some elaborated, others patiently waited, until one day all these surmisings were resolved with the arrival of --- (number censored) “blokes” to our then under-construction airport.
Weyburn took on a new appearance, and a very distinguished R.A.F. blue one at that.
At first the Old Country brogue was like a Babylonian jargon to us, but as acquaintances grew this obstacle was overcome in the face of their charming manner, their story-telling ability, and – a characteristic common to many of them – their wavy, sleekly oiled hair.
At dances, these boys’ popularity never wanes. The uniform perhaps, so scarce during the summer months, was a call to arms – the arms of girls, ladies, women, dames, hags, sacks, and what would you. Where such vast numbers of the fairer or not-so-fair sex came from will always remain for us a sixty-four dollar question still unanswered.
However, these jives and jitterbugs, or nervous wrecks set to music, began their task of dancing with gentlemen so cultured, so well taught in the art of ballroom dancing. We found ourselves two beats ahead of our partners in a slow fox-trot, two feet lagging in their slightly quicker style of waltzing, and generally falling over ourselves when our well-meaning assailants tried their feather steps and palais glides. As time wears on, our compromise in styles is markedly successful.
To us, too, the eagle-crested chaps have brought a station band, held in very high esteem, and appreciated especially by those who know that a waltz does have a definite tempo, while a quickened step has another.
A Hostess Club has come into existence to entertain the boys, and it is unnecessary to tell of the pleasure which we derive from providing this home-away-from-home. We have enjoyed many a quiet get-together in these home-like surroundings, helped on by the smiles of the hostesses.
The bowling alleys, the theatre (or cinema), the swimming pool, the football field, each has donned a new atmosphere of bustle, excitement, and a good-time-was-had-by-all air.
For this we can thank our winged service men. They have brought home to us something of how the other half of the world lives, they have given us their companionship, they have brought with them memories of their forefathers, and for all this we salute them.
And without them too, I know that I, as well as many others in category Female No. 1 Single would now be sitting at home, knitting sweaters for Cecil.
FEMALE CITIZEN.
[Page break]
Prairie Vista
[Photograph of a serviceman sitting on a block in a field, looking pensive]
We offered prizes for pictures illustrating Weyburn, and here you see what happened. We point out that Weyburn really is a quiet place at times and that those we have chosen for this issue merely tell one all about the undulations of the scenery round about.
If those fellows laying claim to these photographs will call on the editors, they will hear something to their advantage.
[Photograph of a railway line heading to the distance]
[Photograph of Weyburn Fire Station]
7
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Gremlinology
After a variety of reports from a highly skilled assortment of u/ts now flying with “D” Flight, we record this warning to all pilots and pupes on this station. We have long suspected this, and now it has been definitely established. We can wait no longer. We must give you the terrible news.
The Gremlins are operating here on the Prairie ! ! !
Wait, reader! Don’t dispose of this with an airy shrug and turn over the page. This is pukka gen. Both the long-experienced pilots on this station will already be familiar with the Gremlin, but for the benefit of the uninitiated we may explain that gremlins are the little folks of the air who are responsible for all those minor mishaps which occur while you are airborne. They sit quietly on the mainplane for a while, and then, when you are beginning to feel that you really can fly, they open up. What do you think it is makes for a heavy landing? Your flying? Never! It is the gremlins jumping on the deck, lifting the runway up about ten feet, and then dropping it back while you are holding-off. Decent types, in fact.
We believe this is the first appearance of gremlins in this country, and at first we thought we had discovered a new species, the Prairie Gremlin, but after careful investigation, we can state with certainty that they are of the British variety, Gremlin Mk II, a very unpleasant species, stowaways on the U.S.S… It may be that the gremlins are only operating on “D” Flight kites, but we give this warning in case they should migrate to lower forms of station life.
Our first experience of the Gremlins came soon after our course had started, when we were smitten with a plague of ground-looping. This was obviously no fault of the pupes, and we realize now that the Gremlins jumped from our kites on to the runway just as we were landing, and pulled down a wing on to the tarmac, then clambering back on to the kite and chuckling with glee at the efforts of the pilot to extricate himself. It is on record that one of our instructors, particularly popular with the Gremlins, booked himself out for “Exercises 8 and 9 ground-looping”.
Only yesterday a certain sergeant from the Nav Flight, distinguished for his frequent reversion to his habits of recent Tiger days in switching off Harvards in fine pitch, was emitting a sigh of relief and surprise at making a reasonable landing when a group of gremlins planted a large area of mud dead in the path of his aircraft …
Take heed to our warning, then you fliers, and profit by our experience.
A word to our instructors. If you have noticed some slight errors on our part, landings with the undercart up, or taking off full flap, don’t blame us. It’s those Gremlins at work again. And a last word to fellow pupes. Next time you write off an aircraft, don’t let it bother you, just tell your Flight Commander it was the Gremlins, and he will give you another kite straight away. After all, what’s a few aircraft at a time like this? Think of all the Gremlins you may have written off too.
H.W.F.
[Boxed] Wanted
In this edition appear several items of interest from people outside the camp. These missives were received by the staff at various times during the last month and, since they show a remarkable insight into the life and living of No. 41 S.F.T.S., the less libellous paragraphs are littered about our pages.
The Editorial staff makes this public appeal to the writers to come out into the open and reveal their identities. We should like to express our appreciation of these witticisms and establish a closer liaison …
The anonymous contributors were all ladies of Weyburn and its surrounds … [/boxed]
[Page break]
[Advert for Gold Seal beer]
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[Advert for Kempton’s Book Store]
[Advert for Lee Sing Laundry
[Advert for Bill’s Café]
[Page break]
Romance in Regina
(A tale of the wide open spaces)
By “Prairie Oyster”
[Drawing of an airman with his arm around a pretty girl] “She thrilled as she felt a hand on her shoulder.”
WHAT’S HAPPENED UP TILL NOW:
Mary Anne Svenson is still a slip of a girl; sweet sixteen and never been kissed. Her faithful chum is Penelope Picklove – a dusky young beauty. In spite of the vivacious zest for life, and all that goes with it, shared by the two girls, they are closeted in Saint Agatha’s Convent for Good Girls Only, in Regina, Queen-of-the-Prairies. This, of course, is the biggest, smartest and best Finishing School north of the American line.
Already Dan Cupid has struck deep at Mary Anne. She is going steady with a handsome Old Country aviator called Patrick Alexander. But, alas, the girls of the Convent are only allowed one late pass each month, and then only till 22.30 – so courtships are slow. But not with our heroine, Mary Anne Svenson.
However, nothing daunting, the dashing lovers keep secret trysts. Where there’s love there’s a way. But now both are in trouble – serious trouble. Patrick is about to be court-martialled for roaring low over the terrified convent-girls, and blowing kisses to his own true-love. And now, horror of horrors, Mary Anne has been summoned by the cruel matron, Sister Immaculata, who caught her behind a bush with her dearest Patrick.
“Tomorrow,” roared the dread matron, “you will be publicly expelled. They are in need of a practitioner at the Weyburn Mental.”
NOW READ ON IMMEDIATELY, DON’T WAIT A MOMENT:
Mary Anne, looking more than ever like a scented rose at dewy dawn, felt cold all over. Creeping from the presence of the terrifying ogre-matron, she sought the faithful Penelope. Finding her peeking thru the keyhole as she left the room, she staggered sobbing on her shoulder. “Worse than death,” she whispered hoarsely.
The faithful Penelope soon soothed our crestfallen heroine with a bag of liquorice all-sorts and a story from True Confessions. As there was no school that day owing to all the instructors being on a 48, she persuaded the damp-eyed Mary Anne to take a stroll towards Regina’s famed lake. There the pair sat on the grassy sward, gazing thoughtfully into the deep watery stillness.
Meanwhile Patrick had returned to camp, his hopes of being able to be an ace with the Canadian and British airmen overseas being dashed to the ground. One thought only saved him from immediate suicide – the thought that soon he might see his beloved prairie flower once more. As he fell to pondering over the blissful tryst of the previous nite, he became less browned off and the light shone in his steel-gray eyes once again. That night he was to play center-forward for his team in the Semi-Final of the South Sask. Soccer League. As he thought of the evening soccer game (Old Country fashion), he resolved that he would leave his mark as an ace footballer, even if he was not to be an ace-aviator.
Mary Anne stared wistfully into the lake; her impending public expulsion
11
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From Saint Agatha’s, and the consequent wrath of her stern Puritanical parents, steady farmers at Expanse, Saskatchewan, cast a somber cloud over her usually sunny disposition. Like a flash the one and only solution to her troubles crossed her turbulent mind. She must escape from the toils of the dreaded Immaculata. Escape she must; and escape at once.
By the time faithful class-chums had returned to the convent at near-dusk, Mary Anne had decided on a plan of action.
At the same time, Patrick had played his last game for his station. It was a ding-dong struggle, and the pent-up spectators held their breath as his station struggled with Medicine Jaw for the lead in the S. Sask. League. The score was 1-1 when the ball came to our hero. (Square 4.) Like a second Babe Ruth he dribbled it up to the field (Old Country style) and scored a magnificent goal a second before the whistle shrilled for the end of the thrilling match. In what had been the greatest game ever seen in the three Prairie Provinces, Patrick had lead [sic] his station team to victory; repeat, victory. Everyone was happy. Even the S.W.O. smiled. The C.O. personally congratulated Patrick, as he (Patrick) was held shoulder-high by his more-than-delighted team-mates.
That night as the team was celebrating in the Y with milk-shakes and bubble-gum supplied free by the Imperial Daughters of the Empire, a lone figure made its way through the shadows surrounding St. Agathas.
Patrick, as we already well know, was a man of action. It was only the work of a trice to corner the young sport-loving C.O. after the Celebration Dinner. With the aid of many “Big Chiefs” and the thought of his timid blondie, Mary Anne, he poured out his sorrows to the understanding Group Captain. At first he, the Group Captain, was unimpressed and dwelt at some length on the importance of discipline and Section 7, Para 3, of C.A.P. 100 and the Stockbrokers Gazette. But as the merrie evening wore on he loosened up and at dawn he left Patrick promising to make him acting Pilot Officer unpaid, and furthermore promising that he would instruct his lawyer in Watrous (Prairie Regional) to buy up all the evidence against Patrick.
Meanwhile Mary Anne tramped the streets of Regina, wondering what might befall her. She stopped in at the Dominion Hotel to spend her last nickel on a cup of ersatz coffee. Staring into her coffee cup in a deep reverie, she suddenly noticed out of the corner of her eye a small placard, “Good-looking assistant wanted.” Immediately applying to the manager, she was given the job at the same pay as an ACH G/D. (K.R. & A.C.I. para. 2295).
By this time the whole convent was in an uproar. Even the calm Immaculata was in a flat-spin. Even Penelope Picklove had no idea of the whereabouts of beauteous Mary Anne. All feared the worst.
All the following day Mary Anne toiled in the Drug Store, frying eggs and cutting sandwiches. Late that evening just as she was serving a David Harum to a Lance Corporal in the S.S.R. she felt a hand on her shoulder. Her heart leapt with girlish excitement. Could it be Patrick. She was scared to look round for fear it might be some forward stranger. But it was Patrick; as handsome as ever in sky-blue with glittering brass buttons. Soon he had persuaded her to slip away from her drudgery, and to go dancing with him in the Silver Dell.
The nite, as usual, sped by blissfully for both. Finally, as dawn broke over the golden wheat fields outside of the city, Patrick took her home to the Dominion Hotel. As the couple entered thru the swing doors, Mary Anne Swooned into her lover’s arms; for who should be standing in the foyer waiting for her, but her wrathful parents, Mr. and Mrs. Svenson.
* * * *
That’s all this issue. Buy the next issue to find out where on earth the faithful Penelope has gotten herself to, and what Mr. and Mrs. Svenson have to say about their daughter’s capers.
FILLUP
You’ve heard of the airmen’s canteen,
Where they say the language’s obscene,
You’ve heard of the Corporal’s place
Their dances they say, are “Disgrace”
You’ve heard of the Sergeant’s bar,
Where they drink too much by far.
…BUT! Have you heard of the Officers Ball
When it ended up in a “free for all.”
[Page break]
[Photograph of a man in uniform on the telephone]
Key Men No.1
The Adj.
No, this is not the Mental Hospital. You must have the wrong number. … What is it? The Royal Air Force, of course … No, not the R.C.A.F. That’s something different. This is the English one. We’re all English here … Yes, that’s why I talk with a frog in my throat … What do we do? Oh, teach people to fly … No, we can’t give you a joy ride. Certainly not … No, it’s the first I’ve heard of it. I must ask the Flight Sergeant … Dammit, what else do you want to know/ I’m a worried man … Do we wear spotted ties? Most certainly not.
Weyburn Newsfront
So many of our readers have written in asking us how The Flying Gopher manages to score its numerous newsbeats over its competitors that a word of explanation might be interesting.
Events move so quickly on the camp these days that every available means of communication must be utilized in order to give our readers “stop-press” news. Not trusting the telephone (the enemy has many ears), Flying Officer Rogers, in shorts, may frequently be seen rushing up the road with the latest watch tower reports, followed by a gust of censored weather.
Formerly, news from the remote reaches of the station require several weeks to reach the editors, coming by means of camel train (now discontinued since Flight Sergeant Tillman is unable to supply the beasts with retreads, sampan (requisitioned to ford the floods of last spring), dog team, and finally, pogo stick (to keep the carrier’s head above the mud on the main roads).
It is now suspected that Flying Officer Colchester will be using a carrier service to forward his news, since, whenever sports are mentioned, he invariably replies, “That’s my pigeon.”
Red-hot news is conveyed by AC. Rowing-Parker on the station fire-tender.
Corporal Rae, our postman, brings highly secretive news, but unfortunately we are unable to use any of it since all his letters are invariably addressed to someone other than the editors. He is apologetic about this, but when the hell is he going to bring something, even if it’s just a letter from the girl friend?
Finally, there is one method of transmission which is faster than Flying Officer Rogers in his shorts, Rowing-Parker on his fire-engine, AC. Harrison with his signals, faster than Aldis lamp. radio or television. The method has been perfected beyond any other system for getting news spread farthest to the mostest, and only one little kink needs to be ironed out – the method is utterly unreliable. We refer, gentlemen, to Rumour.
No, the Flying Gopher does not have to use Rumour to scoop the news-beats of the world!
13
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Society Page
Night Life on a Prairie Airport Can Be Fun
The well-sleeked hair of RAF airmen glistened brightly in the light of the photographer’s flash bulb as he took these pictures of dancers enjoying a quiet evening in the Airport “Nightclub.” Accounts Section as always appears to be well to the fore – notice “Stinker” Simmons and “Flash” Morgan – while closer scrutiny reveals that the Flights, Maintenance and Equipment Sections have all sent their representatives along.
[Photographs of a dance]
[Page break]
More Archaeology
In our last issue we deserted our serious research into the life and existence of the Men of Raf to enquire into their sports and pastimes. We now return to our examination of their Social Order, and perhaps it is time we paid a little attention to their monetary system.
It seems the Men of Raf had risen, if only a little, above the system of Barter, and each member of the community received reward for his labours. Again the characteristics of tribal life are evident and we find that the task of organizing and carrying through this complicated system of remuneration was the responsibility of the Klan of Akkownt, verily a learned Tribe.
That this was appreciated by the other Men of Raf is borne out by documents recently recovered, in particular a letter from a member of the Klan of Kwip to a brother Kwippite situate [sic] in the distant land of Ukay in which he states “verily, the Klan of Akkownt are wonderful men; strange and mystic are their ways. According to the High Chief of the House of Rek I did stand in favour with the God Kred to an amount of Fifteen Bob, but lo, and behold, now I am arrived at the Land of Wey, the High Chief Jaycee doth tell me that the God of Deb does frown on me to the extent of Two Bucks Two Bits!” Reference of this matter to the disciples of Einstein has confirmed that the problem, though abstruse, can be solved by the application of sufficient Relativity; hence the motto of the Klan of Akkownt, “relatively speaking – “.
Here is should be mentioned that the Klan of Akkownt was a divided tribe. Years and years ago the Klan of Akkownt did arrive at the strange Land which they found already in the possession of the Tribe of Kwip. Now both being learned Tribes and having great respect for each other’s qualities it was natural they should arrive at the conclusion that the life then lived by the Men of Raf was too, too simple to be continued. Hence the Heads of the two Tribes did sit in conclave for many moons, formulating mystic rites and customs to improve the social organization of the Men of Raf.
And that is where the trouble started. The Klan of Kwip were convinced that the system of Barter would prove the best. The greater part of the Klan of Akkownt were in favour of making use of a new element they had just found and which they had christened Munny. Munny’s the time they were to regret that decision.
Apparently the idea of the Klan of Kwip was to issue each man with the necessities of life in regular quantities on prescribed dates, thus: “Notice to the Men of Raf – Be it known that on the sixteenth day of the month of February, the amount of labour performed by the members of the community having at last reached that determined by the High Priest of the Klan of Kwip, there shall be issued to each man the following –
Quantity, one: Article, Paste, White, Dental, Effervescing, Airmen for the use of.
Quantity, enough: Article, Liquid Blue, Copper, Sulphate, Bath, Foot for the filling of, Airmen for the use of … - and so on.
Here the Munnyites in the Klan of Akkownt did object that the wants of each and every man did differ, and hence the system of barter would give much encouragement to the underground worshippers of the evil God Aakket, in whose honour Men would perform the rites of Swop and Swipe. But there were several of the Klan of Akkownt who were in favour and to their fellow tribesmen they became known as Kwip Akkownts, or, in times of stress, Twip Akkownts. This section it is which also imbibes vast quantities of the Dish of Vowcher. A nasty habit, and one apparently which stimulates queer dreams and ambitions.
Some members of the Klan have been known to aspire to membership of the Klan of Ayr, in the tribe of Wop, trade of Gunner, and have roamed through the mighty places of the Klan singing “Oh for the wings of … “ before being brought to account. Yet others of the Klan were taken with a strange sickness and did wander around in a dazed condition continually chanting in the manner of Kroon, which was indeed a bad thing for the men of Raf, but when these
[Page break]
15
[Advert for Burge’s Meat Market]
[Advert for Weyburn Hardwar Ltd.]
[Page break]
afflicted creatures did encounter the totem pole of the Men of Raf, known as Myke, in the presence of which their voices did acquire greater strength if not sweetness, then was it night unbearable!
May we ask our readers to avoid confusing the insignia Myke with the mystic drink Mikky. Both seem to have had an evil influence on certain sections of the Men of Raf, but I think it can be safely concluded, from the evidence we have, that Mikky had a far wider and much more general effect. (In this connection I refer you to Chapter XXXIXXVII, para 12345 in the “History and General Treatise on the Habits of the Klan of Sarj,” which informative volume I regret will not be found in the Station Library).
The crucial point in the history of this Section of the Men of Raf arises as a result of their migration from the Land of Ukay to the province of Wey in the Land of Kan. It was quite natural that they should bring with them their own Gods and Deities, one or two of whom we have mentioned above, and for quite a time they lived a peaceful and undisturbed life. Tribute was regularly paid to the Gods Kred and Deb, and many members of the various Klans had occasion to be honoured with the Noble Order of Ritoff. It was therefore a great shock to them to find that the Land of Klan was ruled by High Authority known as Cas, with its partners Afhq and Rcaf, often called the Terrible Three.
One never-to-be-forgotten day these Three did smite the Klan of Akkownt and shake them from head to foot, abolishing all their old Deities, in particular the Gods of Kred and Deb, and making it a law that all the Men of Raf, on each Festival of Pay should bow their heads to Sine; as a result of which many members of the Klans of Erk, Lak and Korp did discover with amazement that they still had knowledge of the Art of Riting, even if, in many cases, they were not fully conversant with the Art of Spelling. It is noted that rumour indicates that, consequent to the initiation of the tribute to Sine, many of the Klans had to unearth the old tribal records to discover hereby a true knowledge of the Names accorded to each member, in order that he might not commit offence in the eyes of the new Deity.
In closing it should be mentioned that the Klan of Akkownt was one of the few Klans to devote its whole energies to the task allotted to it in the social order of the Men of Raf. Each year they were allowed a period of absence wherein to recuperate from the strain of their labours, but if reports are to be believed they joyfully spurned this chance to rest, and did travel many hours to the West, to the East, to the North and to the South, only to continue the fascinating study of Figgers. There can be np doubt that Figgers are and will continue to be, the beginning and, in many cases, the end of the Klan of Akkownt.
Medical Meanderings
A man goes sick on M two five,
And feels he’s only just alive.
The M.O. looks, and hums, and he
Places the man on M. & D.
But some are not so fortunate,
Or so they think, at any rate.
Their troubles here have just begun,
They are put on forty-one.
They saunter through the office door,
And answer questions, one or more.
The twerp presiding gives a look,
And puts partics in a little book.
And then the fun begins, they say,
If M.O. looks the other way.
The orderly, with eyes agleam,
Makes him happy it may seem.
The patient, he is sore depressed,
His work on others now will rest.
They bring him coffee in a cup,
And send old Bliss to cheer him up.
So Bliss comes in with hook in hand,
When patient is in sleepy land.
He wakes him up, says “Hello mate,
What is your enlistment date?”
He then is placed on two four o,
And written in for a day or so.
But office twerp, he wants some gen,
So wakes the patient up again.
Once more he tries to go to sleep,
But office gen, it will not keep.
The office twerp comes in with mirth,
And wakes him for his date of birth.
And so he asks for his discharge,
He’d rather be with the boys at large.
He walks out of the dock with zest,
And goes to billet for a rest.
F.C.B.
17
[Page break]
Weyburn Has A Library
Certain very puzzling questions keep coming into the mind of the Librarian – questions which she can never answer. She will be most grateful for any assistance in the matter of solving these highly perplexing problems.
It might be only fair to state here that any resemblance to you or anyone else in any of the following remarks is highly coincidental.
Now, as to the questions.
Why do you airmen, or at least some of you, persist in thinking that the library is financed solely by the takings from the R.A.F.? There seems to be a common misapprehension that the librarian lurks behind the bookshelves waiting to pounce upon innocent airmen victims. If any of you, as yet uninitiated into the solemn rites of membership of the W.P.L., have heard that ugly rumour, please ignore it. It is true that certain of the fellows have been most generous in the extent of their contributions, but this is due only to the fact that they will insist on ignoring the Librarian’s grim warning that horrible penalties will be exacted from him who fails to return his books on the prescribed date.
Why, again, do some of you insist on making unpleasant insinuations as to the integrity of the staff? “Did you have a good time at the Fair with my fine money?” That sort of remark is calculated to make a more sensitive person quail.
Then why do you so consistently ignore the polite little reminder cards which are sent out? They should, of course, be regarded as a friendly gesture, for their sole purpose is to prevent the fines from mounting higher and higher. Still, there is always the fear lurking at the back of our minds that someone may try to abscond with a book, which of course would lead to serious repercussions, the extent of which is unpredictable. Certainly it would bring down the wrath of the Librarian on the heads of the offenders, and that wrath is indeed a great wrath.
And this brings us to the ultimate Why, the crux of all our Whying. Why don’t you bring your books back on the due date? Life would be so simple if only you would look at the date stamped on your card in the back of the book.
Last of all, why don’t more of you use the Weyburn Public Library? If anything you have read in the above tends to frighten you away, please ignore it. We really do like to do business with the R.A.F.
G.N.G.
Archimedes
look forsooth
see a youth
writing a letter to his love
can’t find a rime
spent lots of time
can’t find a rime
for amelia
goes to bed
with aching head
inspiration
light
see the officer of the law
rat-a-tat at the door
see the judge
we must stop these violations
of the blackout regulations
ten pounds
says the judge
pays the fine
pleasure’s mine
because i’ve found the rime
i wanted all the time
listen
or fair and beautiful amelia
i like you better than celia
eureka
eureka
wedding bells
F.R.S.
[Page break]
[Drawing of a beautiful girl on the telephone] “But mother, the Airman here says it’s not true about those gooseberry bushes.”
19
[Page break]
The Padre Ponders
[Photograph of a padre and two women sitting]
“Padre – you’re posted to Weyburn”
Weyburn! For was not Weyburn in the district in which I had ministered as a civilian priest of the Church of England some few years ago; a district with headquarters at Milestone?
I remember arriving in that town, which has shown some excellent hospitality to the men of this Station, and wondering how anyone could exist, let alone live, in such a desolate and flat district. But, as the months passed by, I realized that “man does not live by bread alone.” For the prairie, so drought stricken, taught me that common hardship and suffering can bring out the finest qualities in man. The people found great joy in that which is so necessary to-day, e.g., co-operation. Co-operation with God; and co-operation with our fellow-men.
I am once again the district and I am pleased to be here at such an interesting stage in the development of 41 S.F.T.S. Just as in civilian life, so in Service life there must be that oblation of self to God and to the welfare of our fellow-man if we are to possess a truly happy Station. Ways and means are daily discussed and are being put into operation to attain this end. The prairie will not look half so grim, especially in the winter, if we each give whatever talents we possess to the Station, both spiritual and social.
I leave you with a thought – “The people who make no roads are ruled out from intelligent participation on the world’s brotherhood.”
Sincerely,
THE PADRE.
The Padre Acts
A play which has enjoyed a long run at the Old Drury Theatre in London, must possess outstanding qualities of entertainment. Such a play is “French Leave,” to be produced in the near future by F/Lt. Clarke (Chaplain).
Casting is not yet completed for this hilarious three-act comedy, but we have a spot of news for you:
Inside information: The female parts will NOT Be taken by hairy-legged Airmen, but by members of the fairer sex from Weyburn. The cast will be announced later. It’s anyone’s guess.
“French Leave” is a good story, well written in the dramatic sense. Our director has had considerable experience, with the added advantage of having already produced this play at Carberry and Winnipeg.
Here is an opportunity to co-operate in a worth-while venture. The padre is looking for volunteers, for acting parts and to assist in the stage production. Let’s make a go of this!
20
[Page break]
[Advert for Fred Barber’s Man Shop]
[Advert for Anderson’s Café]
21
Bus Ride
I had just received my ticket from the conductor as the bus stopped at Marble Arch. The usual mixed crowd of London bus passengers jostled each other on. It was then I noticed her … she sat directly opposite, just inside the bus where the seats face each other. I couldn’t believe it – a glance told me she also recognised, but could no more understand than I. She was exactly the same, tall, fair, with that expression of determination which camouflaged a certain nervousness; the very same expression that had caused me to look twice on the night of March 8th, 1941, when I first met her in a little café in Old Compton Street. I had gone to the café to rest and regain control of my distressed mind for I had been dragging people out of the Café de Paris, … the aftermath of a direct hit.
It all came back to me, as clearly as if it had been yesterday. I had sat smoking in that little café, endeavouring to compose myself, for I was badly shaken; blood and dead bodies had no part in my life previously. It was then I saw her for the first time. She was just the same, tall and fair with that same expression which was so attractive and yet pathetic. She brought me a coffee and withdrew quickly behind the counter. I was fascinated, not so much by her beauty, for indeed she was beautiful, but by this unique expression; I was unable to take my eyes off her until forced by the counter which rose some six feet in the air, and I lost sight of her, the counter, and everything, as I sailed through a plywood window, which would have been glass but for a previous raid.
Slowly human life took shape again, and I realised someone was speaking to me in a strained, pathetic voice …no! it wasn’t to me for my name is not David. Then full realisation came to me, as at the same time a gas main ignited and the whole scene was made visibly clear. There she was, lying on a stretcher not two feet away from me, and as I saw her I was mentally aware that I was only shaken, but she was obviously badly injured. Almost inaudibly she commenced to speak, and then the words became clearer: “David, David, forgive me, kiss me and say you forgive.” Some kind of impulse made me, forced me to comply with her wishes …
As I drew my face away from her, I was touched on the shoulder by someone standing at my side, and a masculine voice said, “Your wife? I’m sorry.” “No,” I replied. “Fiancee?” “Yes,” I lied, for then I felt guilty of my actions. “Too bad,” he said, and then added, as if in consolation, “There’s no pain.” During this short conversation my eyes had not left her face, which was now beautiful in the full sense of the word; for her smile was one of supreme happiness. I took her hand in mine to comfort her and as I did so I knew she was no longer with me …
…And yet here she was in the seat opposite, reading the advertisements above my head.
P.D.C.
The New Arrival
Squadron Leader “A” was browned off. He had waited twenty minutes for a taxi, and he was particularly keen to get back to the mess … someone had had a baby or something, and he was licking his lips in anticipation. Eventually the taxi came, and, seated beneath three or four erks, he travelled back to camp. “Never again,” he muttered as he extricated himself from the taxi at the camp gates, and fumbled for his share of the dollar. “Never again,” he muttered when he hurried into the Mess to find the celebrations at an end. It might be a long time till someone else had a baby, and his throat was very dry. What with the R.C.A.F. accounting procedure, and the S.A.O. a bit peeved about the tire shortage, you had to go a bit carefully these days.
“And you really do recommend this one?” “Yes, sir, I am sure this specimen will give you every satisfaction.” “Right, I’ll take it. Wrap it up, will you?”
And lo and behold a beautiful yellow bus at the camp gates, straight from the Army and Navy Store at Regina, wherein we travel to and from the city at regular hours and in considerable comfort!
Thank you Squadron Leader “A”!
[Page break]
[Advert for McKinnons]
23
[Page break]
Legal Laugh
Maintains Our Resident Attorney
Everyone loves a legal story. The judge who innocently asks “What is nagging?” never fails to stimulate us. The smart-tongued witness, standing up to counsel, always gives us joy. The obstinate client, the advice of whose solicitor was taken much too late for it to have been any value, for ever brags about the futility of consulting lawyers on commercial matters. Yet lawyers flourish.
The layman, primed by his daily paper with full details of the latest murder, would feel disillusioned if he knew how little most solicitors know, or even care, about such matters. But the layman listens attentively to all that falls from any lawyer’s mouth concerning it, for all men love to see behind the scenes. The trappings of the law can thrill, and they who put them on command respect. So much for lawyers in real life. And when we turn to fiction we still find that, on the whole, a lawyer’s ways are stern.
Gray hairs, ill-fitting for a fool, all lawyers long for. Proudly, at thirty, bowler-hatted, I had mine. Man thought me forty-five; at least I hoped so. For the lawyer, forty-five seemed to me to be a very desirable age, for one is then old enough to have experienced everything, but not too old to like to do new things.
Law in the Services usually concerns punishment. But a solicitor in general practice spends his time dealing with problems and people, arising out of every conceivable combination of curious circumstances, and living in almost every class of society. It was only comparatively lately that I began to appreciate the never-ending interest which can, at any moment of the day, be found in simply carrying out one’s work as a solicitor.
I took up Law as a sedative, after War Flying. In the whole of my peace-time career, I never handled any case concerned with aviation. The nearest approach was when a lady consulted me about the arrangement for her approaching marriage. She believed that her intended husband had an ample fortune. Ought she to insist that substantial trust funds be settled upon her, prior to surrendering herself?
I promised to look into the matter. It was the Wednesday before Easter.
Late next afternoon I wired to her as follows: “Your fiancée ex-R.A.F. Officer. Exercise extreme caution.”
P.R.
Ich Dien
This is the tale of AC. Sprog, who sailed the mighty seas.
He slept in ancient blankets which scratched furrows in his knees;
His collar was as black as ink, he smelt like ancient cheese –
He was serving his country and his King.
Early in the morning you would find him at the rail,
A-feeding if the fishes, and at evening without fail
You would find him at the rail again, in sunshine, wind or hail,
Nobly serving his country and his King.
They set him peeling onions, they sent him up to guard
The upper deck, though the wind was blowing very hard,
And Sprog obeyed them gladly, and his chest stuck out a yard,
For he knew he was serving his country and his King.
Sometime Sprog would peep inside the Sergeant’s Mess, and there
He would contemplate the scene of ease, and sigh and tear his hair,
To think how distant was the date when he would take his share
In such noble, glorious service of his country and his King.
- SIGMA.
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[Page break]
True Yarn
As everyone knows, when the Royal Air Force began to expand in 1938 hundreds of ex-officers were given commissions and posted to ground jobs.
And so, in a burst of zeal, and confident that a large-sized war was in the offing, Peter Robinson, who had served in the 1914-1918 mess as a commissioned officer in the Royal Regiment of Artillery, and later in the Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force, offered his services, in September, 1938, to the Air Ministry.
In due course, our “hero” was summoned to Adastral House to appear before a Selection Board and about three weeks later he received a short note to the effect that he had “been found fit for employment.”
And so, Robinson, who was running quite a tidy business, handed over to his wife and prepared to get back into uniform.
After a lapse of some weeks, he was ordered to report to Cardington for a Balloon Course and so for ten very weary weeks, poor Robinson pulled balloons about, drove lorries and winches, climbed all over balloons, inside and out, and finally passed the examinations with flying colours. In his innocence, Robinson thought he would then be posted as a Balloon Officer, but oh no! He was sent to a brand new Station, not nearly completed, as Adjutant! At least, he did all the work of and Adjutant but was only graded and paid as an Assistant Adjutant, since in those far-off piping times of peace, on a Station which had a Squadron Leader Admin, the establishment allowed an Assistant Adjutant only.
His first office was a contractor’s hut and as the buildings were completed, the Station Headquarters successively occupied an N.C.O.’s bunk in a barrack hut, a portion of the Seregant’s [sic] Mess, the Station Sick Quarters and on a never-to-be-forgotten day in July 1939, moved into the Station Headquarters building with all his staff, i.e., three clerks, G.D., two civilians and a runner.
During his trekking period, Robinson had been sent to Rollestone to attend the Anti-Gas Course and duly completed a very pleasant three weeks. On his return to his Unit he became Station Anti-Gas Officer, and by the outbreak of war, he was Adjutant, Assistant Adjutant, Anti-Gas Officer, Officer i/c M.T., Officer i/c Sergeants’ Mess, Messing Officer, Fire Officer, and Code and Cypher Officer. Oh yes, he had done half an hour’s course on Codes and Cyphers. On the 3rd September, 1939, he shed most of his jobs and for months he did nothing but test respirators and bob in and out of a gas chamber.
Then, the practical joke department got busy, and he was posted to a Group Headquarters in Scotland as Armament Officer, his sole qualifications being the fact that he knew the difference between a Vickers and a Lewis gun. And so he spent many months in Bonnie Scotland, very happy since he was out of doors most of the time, but scared stiff that his A.O.C. would find out his total lack of knowledge of all the thousand and one gadgets which constitute “Armament”.
Our Robinson was then bold enough to apply for an Armament Course – after ten months in Scotland – and the practical joke department at the Air Ministry stirred themselves again and sent him on the Junior Administrative Course at Loughborough! Another happy three weeks followed with lots of golf and visits to that very nice hostelry at Quoon, and then another branch of the practical joke department woke up and made him a Squadron Leader in Command of a Training Wing not a hundred miles from Warrington.
And so we leave him. By this time I expect he is either an Accountant Officer, or perhaps an Equipment Wallah.
E.T.
MORE FILLUPS
A Squadron Leader we’ve christened chips,
Spends hours in workshops making bits,
He built himself a bedside table,
Then found he was so very able,
He started on a set of chairs,
When thro’ the window C.O. stares.
He quickly donned an airman’s tunic,
And looked just like the Station Eunuch.
25
[Page break]
[Advert for Forteath Cabins]
[Advert for Four Star Taxi]
[Advert for Weyburn Bottling Works]
[Advert for Lee Lang Laundry]
[Page break]
Wakee Wakee
The gentle click of a switch, then a scream of WAKEE! WAKEE! from an enraged Sergeant. Some of us fall out of bed in surprise, others with lower numbers hardly stir. GETOUTAVIT! and with a bellow of rage the Sergeant hurls someone out of bed, a top bunk. Then with a crash of the door which knocks off half of the clothes off their pegs and breaks two lamp bulbs, he is gone. Muttering curses of “He ought to be shot!” everyone scrambles back to bed, and within five minutes if soring peacefully …Another day is dawning.
Time sweeps by, and five minutes before the end of breakfast some early worm yells “EGGS.” With a mighty shout and a “Why didn’t some fool wake us?” we are up and charging at the door. The last but one slams it. It is anticipated that, on his discharge some months hence, the last one will be repatriated. With mugs flying, we dive into the Cookhouse and race up to the counter. Some little squirt a foot in front of us moves off to a table with the last egg. There is a muttered rumble of “Who said ‘EGGS’?” from the corporal i.c., and we followed him back to our stye, hungry, dirty and discontented, … ready for sleep.
[Drawing of a sign with Corporal Stripes on]
Corporals’ Club Comments
This month we cannot report the appropriation of animals by club members. The billiard table has not yet arrived and there is really a pronounced lull on the twin striped front. The “last on the right” is a very staid and stolid residence these days. Of course it is summer and apart from fellows going up there to visit the canteen section they appear to be preferring the great open spaces to the confines of a club room. But, in the words of George Formby “winter drawers on” and it is expected that great things will come of our club in the winter months.
There is one lecture which is outstanding in its popularity – the fortnightly dance. That is by now quite an institution both on the camp and down town – even though we do say it ourselves – and far from the cautious preparations which preceded initial functions they now more or less “run themselves.” – We have quite good numbers up there.
It is not the intention of the writer to name the comings and goings of members of the Corporals’ Club during the last month, suffice it that we wish departing members luck in their new abodes and extend a welcome to the several who have either been made up” [sic] or arrived on the Unit since the last publication.
Of Much Interest
The competition for a station motto has been won by the Padre for the following:
“Gopheres magnopere gopherimus.” (“We gopher the gophers in a big way”).
Who was the U-T pilot who thought that the so much talked about second front was something out of a Met. report?
Flight Sergeant Snooks, a member of the R.A.F. No. 41 Service Training School at Weyburn has been transferred to Ottawa. He was a most popular member of the station, and he will be missed by both his friends, who will also have missed their promotion. In anticipation of his posting he has recently been passing babies.
27
[Page break]
[Drawing of a sign with Sergeant stripes on]
Sergeants’ Mess Gen.
Farewell to W.O. (Columbus) Grundy and W.O. (Sebastian) Earp who having been posted left Navigation Flight after a short spell on “binding” Cross Countries. We shall miss these corpulent and genial pilots.
Surprise item of the month is the excellent piano playing of W.O. Campbell who distinguished himself by joining Sgt. Ryckman in Duets after the Officers v. Sergeants Soccer Match. As regards the latter, the least said the soonest mended. We are still wondering how the Officers managed to beat us the first time …
Sgt. Johnny Love has now settled down in Dauphin, and elsewhere in the “Gopher” you will read of the romance between ex-Sgt. “Jock” Leeming and Sgt. Love’s sister. Sort of Love is the sweetest thing.
Back from a hectic leave is Sgt. Hal Jones, who managed to take in New York and Chicago, whilst Sgt. Norman has also returned from a spell in Detroit.
They both say that it is swell to get back to the peaceful life on the prairies. I know that Sgt. Tom Riby definitely boobed in Toronto; opinion is, he thought that the parade was in honour of the select company present.
How are the queer people in Port Hope? We ask of W.O. Kavanagh.
Sgt. “Torchy” McCartney has resigned his post as frog trainer, and he is still looking for the infant that strayed in the Quarters the other day.
Will someone tell us why Sgt. “Johnnie” Johnson didn’t send last month’s issue of the “Gopher” home, and who was that Squadron Leader who wrote from Ontario asking awkward questions?
Sgt. Tom Collinson, a stalwart of the Soccer Team, has now passed his course and we lose yet another fine player. We wish Tom good luck.
F/Sgt. Ayres made a fine job of the drumming in the Station Orchestra recently when he walked into the show at the last moment and took over in his usual competent manner.
Surprise for lots of airmen when they saw the S.W.O., W.O. Mallinson, playing soccer. He played a straight-forward game and shook the troops with his speed.
Lost … Sgt. Richardson.
We would like to see Sgt. Mays dancing the Tango, and Sgt. Collick leading a Male Voice Choir …
That’s all…
Correspondence
Sir,
I have never been wont to complain, but more silence would drive me insane. I received my last wash looking all clean and posh, but I found to my sorrow when I came on the morrow to undo the package to dig from the wreckage, some odourless footwear, the good lady had put there some thick strands of cotton, which I thought was rotten.
Now, dear Mrs. Este, please do not get testy when I thus decry the way that you tie my gent’s natty half hose (with holes in the toes) with knottings divine in pieces of twine. I know all socks shrink when given a drink (a thing which your daughter blames on Weyburn water), and its quite comme il faut for only one toe to find room to arrive where there used to be five.
But although cogitation makes this explanation seem fairly near truth, I still hold, forsooth, that to spend hours just sitting and merely unknitting isn’t really much fun, and, in fact, Isn’t done.
That’s all there is to it. Mrs. E, please don’t do it.
In deepest distress,
Yours, etc.,
P.
[Page break]
Who’s Who?
WHO IS:
The fair corporal who “gives out” in a deep bass voice an accompaniment to a certain group of singers scheduled to meet at regular intervals on the corner of main street? He must have thought they needed some moral support to be so willing to join their throng.
WHO IS:
The party of four that awakened the neighbourhood from a very peaceful snore at the unoriginal hour of 1.30 a.m. by kicking cans down one of the main streets of the town. Of course, we don’t mind them having their fun but we hope that next time they pick a more respectable hour.
WHO IS:
The P.O. now becoming very interested in milking machines. Couldn’t be he’s taking up farming as a sideline. Oh, no!
WHO IS:
The airmen besides Stinky Miller who believe in sprinkling all the fair roses of the town with Ben Hur or Sweet Pea perfume.
WHO IS:
The airman who refused to pay the charges on the hair restorer that came C.O.D. Better try “Neet,” it works much better.
WHO IS:
The Corporal who instead of exiting a taxi via the door, tried “going out” the windshield? Thinks it’s not such a good idea after all.
WHO IS:
The LAC. “Bobbie” who for the love of – well not the camp, - goes on Jankers, not once but twice in the past three weeks.
WHO IS:
The R.A.F. chap who might like to submit an ad similar to the one below:
FOR SALE: Lines: - fish and otherwise, complete with tackle of pukka gen. Reason: Complications. Explanation given below.
After telling my friend of my prospective marriage to an out of town girl, date, Wed., Spet.2 this friend promptly sent a telegram of congratulations to the address and on date given, much to the surprise of the addressee who was still to be told of the event.
Moral: No more lines complete with gen to be sold, lent or given.
WHO IS:
The airman who asked a young lady at the dance if she had any spare tires. The fair femme now wonders if he had a car or if he just had a flat tire.
WHO IS:
The fellow who, at the corner of main street, tried to ride a borrowed bike but was unsuccessful. Reason: Only one pedal. We know!
THE EYES AND EARS OF WEYBURN
The above from a Weyburn Wag. – Ed.
Works and Bricks
If you want a gadget fixed
Just telephone to Works and Bricks.
You’ll hear a voice, so gentle fair,
But don’t forget what needs repair.
Just exercise your vocal organ,
And ask the girl for FO. Morgan.
Then if you’re lucky and he’s out,
To her your soul you may pour out.
29
[Page break]
[Drawing of a chequered flag] Flight Notes
B
Until now, “B” Flight has been inarticulate. The outstanding qualities associated with us have been strength and silence, coupled with an efficiency which has been reflected only in our football, the success of which, we hope, has produced apprehension in “H” Flight. Admittedly we share the personnel of the team with “A” Flight, but they can safely be left to shoot their own lines.
However, we have now swallowed our dislike of the effete practice of literature, and have decided that a certain amount of self-advertisement is necessary, as we have imported at no cost whatever a tame scribe from “C” Flight, who had endured him just as long as was humanly possible. So that until we too get tired of him, the evil chuckles of Sgt. James will echo through the pages of the “Gopher,” as well as striking terror into the instructors’ hearts, and Cpl. Westwood’s pipe will smell foully to a larger audience.
The activities of the permanent members of the flight have included latterly the absorption in a competitive spirit of a certain about of liquid in connection with the passing of No. 54 Course; a detailed account of proceedings would be revealing, if not edifying. We are, however, not prepared to go into the matter in detail, but we will add that the occasion was one of celebration too, for the promotion of “the Boss” to the exalted rank of Flight Lieutenant, and the rapid slide through the ranks of the warrant officers made by P.O. Dixon, and we pause for a moment to wonder if Tubby Dyson’s inactivity on the football field was occasioned by his saving himself for the “do.”
Life has been made more interesting by the pleasantly cosmopolitan character of No. 62 course, and by the vagaries of the new inter-com. We are looking forward to forced landings, too, for by the time we start teaching them, we should be able to tell the direction of the wind by means of the rippling of the grass in the garden. Unfortunately, Sgt. Dakeynes’ hair will not serve to usual purpose in that connection, as it was cut, according to schedule, at the end of the last course.
P.S. We train only Flight Commanders for the U.S. Army Air Corps.
D
Yes, shamefacedly we admit it, we were too lazy before to write in the “Flying Gopher.” But now pangs of remorse smite us in the breast, and we borrow a pen and set to work.
Suggestions are pouring in from all sides, but above all the tumultuous shouting, the voice of AC “Taffy” Tomlins bursts upon the ear drums, “Tell ‘em about our Soccer team.”
At this point a general argument starts, led as usual by “Taffy” and involving “Will” Harris, “Ted” Horrocks and “Sniffy,” Eventually we arrive at the conclusion that, up to the time of writing, we have a good and promising team, bolstered up by members of 58 Course (loud cheers from the end bed), and we are expecting some good results. To aid us in our fight we now go about our daily tasks wearing furious scowls and practicing blood curling oaths. We notice that, since his kick on the shin whilst playing against the cookhouse team, Ted Horrocks has acquired strong views on Soccer, and for the next few minutes we are treat-
30
[Page break]
ed to a general discourse on players, referees, football fields and spectators. The Greeks had no word for it, but Ted has, and we listen admiringly.
We take this opportunity of congratulating Cpl. Ward on his promotion and his wife on her safe crossing. We hope Mrs. Ward’s crossing was better than ours.
Since the arrival of the SE.s life has been fairly easy compared to the days of the old Annie and we have even had a bang at gardening. We planned a garden comprising a border of flowers surrounding a swimming pool, to be used as a safe retreat from the “skeeters” in the summer and converted to an ice rink in the winter. After reviewing the amount of ground to be dug to a depth of six feet we hastily amended the plans and substituted a goldfish pond. But when the first three spadefulls had been dug up, all ideas of pools were promptly forgotten.
So now we have just a plain garden with plenty of grass seed on it, and we hope, some flowers. The flowers have yet to make their debut and the lawn rather resembles Smiffy’s chin … but we live in hopes.
F
We welcome Flying Officer Whiteside who succeeds Ft.Lt. Henley as Flight Commander, and Flight Sergt Hudson who takes over from Flight Sergt. Brockington, who is sweating (and how!). We wonder whether Brock also handed over his address book together with “all relevant publications.”
We are now in the market for a large lawn mower as the lawn is becoming positively jungle-like. For a small fee we may even consider allowing personnel from other Sections to come and sunbathe.
We would like to ask Cpl. Lothario of the Other Flight on this side of the hangar to tell his lady friends his working hours. Of course, we are always willing to lend a helping hand in such a deserving cause, but it becomes rather difficult at times to explain that the Corporal isn’t in the hangar and really we don’t know WHERE he is.
We have discovered a new type of Gremlin. To the uninitiated we might explain that a Gremlin is a being which haunts the upper reached of the atmosphere and causes all the little troubles for which pilots are not responsible.
The new branch of the family amuses itself by breaking Harvard windows, and we never can nail the blighters for a report.
- F.T.R.
H
We must apologise for our failure to write any notes last month, but must plead pressure of work in trying to attain the elusive line and get 52 course out on time. The high pressure work necessary is best illustrated by a pupil’s remark to the Flight Commander when asked if he was on the night flying programme. “I am never on the ground long enough to read the notices.”
Another amusing episode occurred at dawn one morning when the kites were sent for just one more circuit, and the A.C.P. noticed one rush down to the Christmas tree, do a circuit of 800 ft. and come into land before anyone else had taken off. Deciding to teach him a lesson, he was given a red, which was followed by a circuit at 500 ft. so another red. Afterwards the conversation went something like this: “What was the big idea?” “I only had 10 gallons left.” “Well why didn’t you blind your rear lights?” “The battery was flat and the nav. lights weren’t on.” “Anything else wrong?” “The flaps would only come down 20 degrees and there was a mag. drop,” Wonderful crates the old Annies.
Having got them away to time, our instructors had to learn all the vices of the new “buzz- boxes” that were to replace our trusted (?) twins, during which time “G” flight undertook to get our pupils solo. Many thanks to you, as you probably saved us a few ground loops.
Don’t our pupils appreciate the sterling qualities of our Flight Commander? They make frequent efforts to blow him out of his office in a shower of dirt, and though the voluntary contribution is stepped up each week they still find it worthwhile.
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[Advert for Club Café]
[Advert for Weyburn Motors]
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One day when the “coke” flag was put up, a questionnaire elucidated the statements that extra speed was used on the approach on a windy day so that you got to the aerodrome more quickly, and in a glide approach so that the plane descended at a reasonable angle and didn’t just float around.
I wonder if “F” flight are still complacent on the success of their soccer team. They certainly are a lucky side, fancy getting three goals against us.
X
What a busy month it has been. Airmen, pupils – even instructors have de-digitised. “We MUST finish before the snow comes” … “The Flight will be a credit to the Station” … “Do you think HE will notice it?” are among the many remarks overheard in the crew room. The identity of “HE” can only be surmised from the hushed tones in which the word is uttered. The product of the proverbial bull has been widely sought after to hasten results. F-Lt. Goon gazed from his window between cups of tea and looks for people running up in front of “My Office,” his little-tin-box in his hand jiggling reminiscently. A certain “Middleton” has been discussed with great reverence, but perusal of nominal rolls has failed to reveal the Section honoured by his presence. You may be under the impression that we are striving to get the course out ahead of time – but have I mentioned flying? A mere detail. We MUST finish the garden first!
- L.W.
G.I.S. Jottings
Amongst one of the periodic showers of paper delivered to the G.I.S. the other day was a memo which commenced with those all too familiar words “Your contribution is now due.” This was duly passed to those who sit in judgement and authority and finally found its way back to me endorsed “Pass to Stooge for action.” Same old story – voluntary compulsion!
There is, of course, little to report. There never is. Pupils come and P-Os and Sergeants go. I may even make an odious comparison by saying that the G.I.S. may be likened to a sausage machine. True it is that mysterious ingredients are put in! The output in our case consists of a very fine line of Pilots duly burnished by Flying Wing! To a small cog in the machine it is all very inspiring.
Highlight of the month must be the sudden removal of our N.C.O. Discip. Unlike his Irish predecessor he did not return to the Emerald Isle although he is much nearer to it than he was. We regret that we are a little extravagant on Discips and will, in future try to make them last a little longer at least.
No. 56 Course are in the process of “Passing Out.” Many of them passed out quite early on and the remainder are wondering how “So few can repay so many.” The passing out celebration is to be held in the privacy of the telephone pay station in the Y.M.C.A. Our heartiest congratulations go to this course who may consider themselves the most select course we have yet had.
The phrase “What’s Cooking” really does mean something to us. One of our busy Navigators now does a little plotting on the Diet Sheet. It is extremely interesting to be right in the “gen” and to know what one HAD for dinner.
One of the Armament Instructors recently returned from an aircraft recognition course. He has since spent hours pinning up posters on the walls of the entire building, missing not even the most unusual places. We hope that these posters will be of great INSTRUCTIONAL value.
The Airframes and Engines instructor recently returned from Detroit. He said that he had had little sleep during his stay. Asked why this was so he replied in his broad Scots accent that he was afraid of missing something.
At the time of writing, Sgt. “Hal” Jones id still on his official visit over the border. Someone said that his visit was in connection with lion shooting. We THINK they said “lion.”
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[Advert for Charnell Studio]
[Advert for Expert Dry Cleaners]
[Advert for The Sun Café]
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Lease-Lend Dept.
Accts. Forwarded - - - Transition Period
One fine summer morning, as is not his wont, the writer awoke when the sun’s rays were at a slant, and finding the desire for slumber had mysteriously disappeared, he sought to occupy his mind usefully, with what success the read [sic] may judge thereafter.
In the August issue, brief reference was made to the far-reaching and paper-consuming changes recently made in Accounts procedure. For example, if AC. 1 Plonk’s wife in the far-off Motherland presents his father with a grandson, or LAC. Budd blossoms forth as P/O. Prairie Flower, extra shipping space is needed to convey the required forms so diligently prepared by our now so-bumff-hating stooges.
Prior to and during the transition stages the contents of Big Chief Two-and-a -half-ringer Culbertson’s in-tray assumed abnormal proportions. Thereafter it became at times almost the hourly channel of communication of fresh “gen” and amendments are still coming in. How familiar became the words, “Coming over! More Bumff! No Bumff!” accompanied by some expletives suited to the occasion. Little Chief Where’s-it-laid-down’s desk shuddered at the impact, ink splashing right and left as the tomes landed with a thud – a dull, resounding thud, somehow suggestive of impending overtime. The thud usually caused the lighting system to fail, heralded by weird and wonderful noises from the Telephone Exchange opposite.
While the Big Chief consumed these bulky products – perhaps indigestion resulted and might explain certain remarks on messing – the dupe and tripe copies were passed by the most direct manner as described above, to Little-Chief-Stooge. Then, unless they had already swiped a copy, to either Chiefie A.M.Os., who, like the mosquitoes, gets results. Uncrowned-Three-Striper Pass-the-Buckman, or Sergeant Acquaintance Roll(ey) for information, consumption, necessary action, and onward transmission to the Lesser Stooges who do the donkey-work.
The “New Order” requires that the Stooge A.O., now keeper of the moneybags, shall be referred to as the “Responsible A.O.” Any reflection on the character of previous holders of the money-bags in hereby refuted. The possibility of more time being available for Bridge at first appeared, but such fond hopes have long since been dismissed.
Odd Points
Little-Chief-Stooge Where’s-it-Laid-Down’s secret desire is to let all personnel on the station help themselves to the money-bags on pay-day. What’s his size in bowler hats? They never did suit him, anyway, and it is thought that he would lose his “responsibility,” so perhaps he must curb his altruistic desires after all.
After the loss of the Accounts Sections’ laundry, the idea of having a washing line of our own was mooted. It had, however, to be abandoned, because the AC1. Sergeant-Air-Gunner shot a line which was unsuitable for the purpose.
We hear of a certain Corporal who will insist on bursting forth with “Deep in the Heart of Texas” at the slightest provocation. Why don’t the Corporals, with their wealth of musical talent, teach him at least one other song? – or perhaps they would prefer him to forget the one he HAS learned? At the time of writing, we await the return of another Corporal from his trek down south. Gosh! Supposing HE returns with a “Deep in the Heart of” complex! ‘Orrid thought!
-v-
LOST – Ronson Lighter. Engraved. “Bill from Laura, 22-9-41.” Valued as a keepsake. Finder please return to Mrs. V.M. Tomlinson, Weyburn. Reward.
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Minor Bottlenecks
Having a few spare moments from the onerous task of keeping A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H and Navigation flight aircraft serviceable, (Why the ‘ell can’t they do it themselves or are they just too busy gardening?) we have decided to contribute a few notes to the Station Magazine.
We welcome Sergeant Haskell to our Section; he is being initiated into the skilful art of “Where can I get one” by our inimitable “Sandy.”
We have noticed that a certain Senior N.C.O. has been very busy the last few days – they say e has changed his name to “One Splice.”
Is it true that a certain red headed Fitter is going to move his kit into Weyburn?
A few of our personnel spend their weekends on farms in the district – are they getting the harvest in or do they just Mou-land?
Our F-Sgt. Has joined the happy band of the Pensioner brigade and, although he despises crutches, he is pretty good on stilts.
Upon reading the August issue of the Flying Gopher, it was noticed that the Minors football team had been omitted from the League table. Why, Ed? We are not as bad as that – or are we? Congratulations to LAC. Williams in making the Station Soccer team – nice work “Ginger.”
Ed. – Error regretted.
Maintenance Changes
In the Orderly Room, Sergt. Jack Lloyd has taken over the duties of F-Sgt. “Ginger” Ayres, the latter as Chief Clerk now occupying that worthy seat in the Holiest of Holies – Station Headquarters.
Providing there is an ample supply of “FLYded,” the new Sergeant is determined to see that no flies are observed in his Orderly Room.
He wants to know if it is true F-Sgt. Ayres shouted “Come in”, to a knocking on the door last winter, and a bear nosed its way into the office.
The roster for Duty Crash N.C.O. now includes the names of three new arrivals. Also one additional Flight Sergeant who will no longer chuckle gleefully when the list next appears in D.R.O’s. Allowing for leave and other contingencies, this duty should permit the lady friend to take a night off once in every three weeks.
More Accts. Sec.
Squadron Leader name of Cox
Keeps all our money in a box.
Credits he is loath to pay,
Even on our “Eagle” day.
What’s he do with all our dough?
That’s what we all want to know.
Says our credits go to blighty,
His girl’s got another new Nightie.
Postal Rates
The Flying Gopher can be sent to people in England under present postal rates for 2 cents if unsealed, or 7 cents if sealed.
Join!!
We know all these jolly little committees which have been springing up right and left during the past few weeks? Well, someone came down from the S.W.O’s. office the other day binding something awful because he had been told to warn someone he was on the Sewage committee or the Cat Welfare Committee or something, and he couldn’t find him anywhere. And he showed us a list, at the bottom of which was “LAC Artetta” …
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[Advert for Wilson Pharmacy]
[Advert for Service Hardware]
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[Drawing of two men dressed for gold and fishing]
Fort Qu’Appelle
Fort Qu’Appelle offers many attractions for week-ends or longer leaves. It is 75 miles north of Weyburn on a chain of lakes in which good fishing may be had. Boats may be hired at 25c per hour. There is an excellent swimming beach and a nine hole Golf Course with grass greens on the outskirts of the town.
The hotel is comfortable and cheap. Fort Qu’Appelle may be reached quite conveniently by train or ‘bus.
Small Ads
WANTED – By Service Police. One pair of thick rubber soled boots; one deer stalker’s cap, and a dog called Tinker.
WANTED – Retired Donkey to eat super-abundance of carrots. Box WEY. 5.
WANTED – By Cookhouse. Mincing Machine, to replace one written off by VERY fair wear.
WANTED – Secondhand lift. For use of tired airman occupying top bunk.
WANTED – By P.T.I. Officer. Two fitter Britains (or Rigor Mortis) to undergo short course.
EXCHANGE – Two permanent early dinner chits required. Would exchange for anything useful. Box WEY. 2.
LOST – Between Padgate and Weyburn, 7 days pay, a lot of kit, and ring (gold).
PERSONAL – S.M.O. “What price the stork?” C.N.I.
PERSONAL – S.A.I’s. “Are you Grand Arch-Cardinals yet?” L.T.I.
FINALLY WANTED – One seaworthy vessel. By one thousand airmen, must have room for at least one hundred. With stationary decks. Price to include delivery to Weyburn.
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[Advert for The Leader Store]
[Advert for National Musical Supply]
39
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[Advert for McDonald’s Show Store]
[Advert for Arnett Electric]
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Etter Plugs the Jive
The two already run off were surely great successes, weren’t they? The committee in charge of the dances is anxious to have you have a good time., fellows, so let’s have constructive ideas on the subject. These efforts are carried on each second Wednesday evening in the Recreation Hall. Tickets are on sale the Saturday previous in the Y.M.C.A. Because the capacity of the Recreation Hall is limited, the number of tickets available is now limited to 150. Come along early and get your tickets. Good prizes are given each time to the winners of novelty dances, the Swing Commanders play for dancing which starts at 9.00 and ends at 12.30. With the bus running regularly there is no reason why Airmen here can’t make these one of the outstanding events of life on 41 S.F.T.S.
Recreation Reviewed
With the Fall, outdoor activities will be curtailed for the personnel of No. 41 S.F.T.S. After an enthusiastic season, soccer is coming to a close, with only a few plaster casts around to remind us of many strongly contested matches. Cricket and swimming have not long to live, and already skating and hockey are waiting for the freeze-up.
Our Flying Gopher has been examining his burrow to see if he will be comfortable for the winter. Unlike his hibernating brothers of the prairie, he refuses to lie dormant – therefore he wants to know “What’s cooking?” So, sticking his nose into the lair of the Central Committee, he has unearthed a program of activities on the station which will keep him happy digging until spring.
The editors have sifted the mound of information piled up outside their den and here present an analysis of its contents.
Of interest to every man on the station, this program is designed to provide as much variety as possible. There will be no need for any man to be bored and this winter will be a very different affair from the last.
Certainly no town of similar size could have shown more hospitality than has Weyburn to the men of No.41. Weyburnites have taken many men into their homes and entertained them with typical western conviviality, and as for the home cooking, well – we know where we can get apple pie just like mother used to make. The Canadian Legion and the attractive Hostess Club along with other organizations, have made us feel right at home in Weyburn. We are very grateful for all this and wish we could repay some of the hospitality.
But where the number of men on a large military station almost equals half the population of the nearest town, as it does in this case, there will be many men who feel as Tootles when he goes to town, bored and a little disillusioned, unless the men themselves have an organization on the station for providing their own recreation.
We have the organization now, a complete program arranged by the Central Committee for the Fall and Winter. There are activities to satisfy the most varied interests. Through the P.S.I. funds all the necessary sports equipment ahs been provided and more will be forthcoming as the demand grows. Art Etter’s “Y” plays a valuable part in this program.
Romantic Spree
The latest news from the Officers’ jigs,
Where they stuff lemons in little pigs,
Is Flight Lieutenant D.F.C
Embarked upon a romantic spree,
He talked to a maiden fair and twenty,
Of loving cup he had drunk plenty.
He thrilled her with his hectic life,
Then found she was the Padre’s wife.
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Grand Impending Sports Meet at Weyburn
No. 41 S.F.T.S., August 30th. – Alarm is expressed in Service Police quarters here at the violent partizanship which is developing between different factions which will participate in the Giant Sports Day to be held in the Weyburn Stadium on Wednesday, September 23rd. Corporal Neathway, S.P., usually unmoved by anything short of invasions warns that delicate women and children should be chaperoned by husky airmen, since it is rumored on good authority that two factions intend to rub each other out with cream puffs at ten paces! The spectacle of members of the fairer sex cheering for their favourite airmen competitors is likewise not calculated to make this a dull affair. A promising feature is the hair-pulling contest between two girls each with an airman in the 440.
In spite of this, or perhaps because of this, we expect that hundreds of the people of Weyburn will attend. By permission of the Commanding Officer, the station will be shut down for the afternoon in order that the R.A.F. may be out en masse.
All Invited
This is an open invitation to the people of Weyburn and the surrounding district to attend.
Proceeds from the small admission charge will be devoted to the purchase of sports equipment for the men of this station.
Teams from other R.A.F. stations and from R.C.A.F. stations have been invited to compete in a program which will last about two hours. All preliminary heats will have been run off previously and only final events will be contested.
Dance At Night
To round out the Sports Day entertainment, a Station Dance will be held in the Drill Hall on the same evening. The hall has been specially decorated and the Station Dance Band will be augmented for the occasion. The Y.M.C.A. is catering for the evening, and this dance should be the highlight in a very full day.
Sports Officer Lets Cat Out of Bag
Browsing through sports equipment the other day, our reporter was startled to discover, framed between a festoon of boxing gloves and tennis racquets, George, The Moustache. Behind whom resided the genial features of Flying Officer Colchester, our Sports Officer.
“Ah, ha,” he exclaimed, “just the man I’m looking for. Take a look at that?”
“That” was the sports program for September 23rd, at the Weyburn Stadium. Here, at last, was the long awaited news. We give it to you now – the main events for Sports Day –
SPRINTS: 100 yards, 220 yards and 440 yards.
DISTANCE: 880 yards and one mile run.
FILED EVENTS: High jump, long jump, pole vault, discus, javelin and shotput, and hurdles (if priority can be obtained for lumber to build them).
OBSTACLE RACE.
LADIES RACE and comic events.
Well, there it is. The halt, the maimed, and even the binders are expected to turn out and practice for these events on order to turn back the invasion from outside stations. Let it never be said that No. 41 could not put up a good effort when its very reputation was at stake.
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At Your Service
Sports Department
[Photograph of a man with a magnificent moustache] ED COLCH. Now in Weyburn.
Hello, Fellows! Maybe that’s the snappiest way to greet youse all. It certainly is the dandiest thing to be allowed to write you a piece in the “Gopher” and to be able to tell you all what a swell bunch of chaps you are, and why I am here at all. Now, don’t forget to say “hello” to me on the streets of 41 when you see that browser mustache [sic] and line-shooting tea-cosy with a football badge on the front. As the great bard said, I guess “A kiss without a mustache [sic] is like a hamburger without dills.” You see I sure do wanna get together with all you great Old Country boys.
The sports department is for sports, don’t please ever forget that fact. Those of you who have been here some time will have some idea of where my office is. Just drop in for a coke with me any time you have some little personal sporting problem you want to thrash out. I’m usually there blowing up footballs in the morning – and always at your service. However tricky your problem don’t hesitate to step right in and have a talk with the Sports Supervisor. The name is right there on the door.
It is my aim to give you all a body like mine, and make the square the gathering-place for all you lads, on Wednesday mornings in particular. We are flat out to make the square a reely [sic] attractive spot; and I certainly am going to make sure that a first rate decorating job is done there. I guess I’m not speaking out of turn if I tell youse fellows the “Y” is going to lay down some really snappy carpets, and put flags up all around the joint.
Say, bo; let me be your father. I am here to jazz up cricket and drill you for you all. Just buy a tiger skin and drop in.
Your one and only,
ED. COLCH.
Tail Piece
From the Diary of an R.A.F. Hurricane Pilot in Malta, Aprl 6, 1942.
“There was a short service for readiness pilots outside the dispersal hut. The hymn was “Fight the Good Fight.” This struck a chord in my memory. When I was confirmed, the Bishop of Kingston gave as his text, “Fight the good fight of faith,” and that same evening when I opened a book sent to me by my aunt, the first words I read were identical with the text. And now they recurred again. I mentioned this to the Padre afterwards. The coincidence comforted.”
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[Advert for Standard Garage and Machine Shop]
[Advert for Co-op. Dairy Products]
[Advert for The Hi-Art Theatre]
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Ice
If a good many RAF chaps at this station are eating off the mantlepiece this winter it will not be from riding horseback but probably from taking the bumps at ice hockey. The enthusiasm with which fellows who had never skated took to the narrow blades last winter augers well for the sport this season.
A new rink is being built behind the recreation hall, largely for hockey, but another rink will also be constructed for straight and figure skating. Sonja Henie, look out! By the end of the winter No. 41 S.F.T.S. may be touring the country with the Weyburn Ice Follies. At any rate, a public address system will be installed to provide music for the skaters. There will no doubt be Visitors’ Nights when AC Tootles will be able to show his colourfully dressed girl friend how well he can waltz with only a few spills for punctuation marks.
As for organized hockey, we are fortunate to have a good coach in Lieut. Bigelow of the Dental Corps. It is hoped to organize a Service League but that depends on how well the players develop. We may not have any Wally Stanowski’s from the Maple Leafs, but it should be a good effort.
Basketball
We are sorry, but you are wrong. Neither soccer nor horse-racing draw the biggest total number of spectators in sports, but basketball. Started over thirty years ago by a Dr. Niran, who used peach baskets for the first hoops, the game now has the largest fan following of any game in the world. Hundreds of teams compete in national competitions in the States and many thousands of spectators attend games from the high school tournaments to the national finals.
Yes, the game has something. It is very fast – requiring the peak of physical condition in the players in order that they might stand the pace. But, it is a game which can be learned in easy stages. Already at No. 41 S.F.T.S. we have quite a few enthusiasts – it is expected that organized games will take place nearly every night in the Drill Hall. Want a new sport thrill? We can recommend basketball.
Boxing
“Come on now, keep them up, keep them up! That’s better. Don’t signal your punches.”
Sound of leather on hard chests, the shuffling of feet, quick gasps from straining lungs. It might be Cpl. Wheel or Cpl. Farley or AC Rowing-Parker coaching a lad in the art of self defense, but whoever is the coach or whoever the pupil, they are having a cracking good time, literally.
The boxing ring is completed in the Drill Hall, with mat and ropes. There are plenty of gloves available. Practises already reveal promise of future Dempseys to uphold the honor of No. 41 S.F.T.S.
Maybe you are a dark horse, already experienced in the ring, or maybe you have had no experience but would like to cuff AC. Tootle’s head up a peak (probably he feels the same about you). In any case, come out for boxing and have a good work-out.
Badminton
This sort of thing has got to stop. This chap Burkeman (F/Sgt. Burkeman, know him?) is getting to be too much of a good thing. The guy is getting too chesty. What I want to know, is there any game the bloke can’t play and play well? The other night we thought we had him – we would be able to smear him at badminton, anyway, but no, this Joe Burkeman wore us down to a grease spot and he was still smiling at the end as unruffled as you please.
For heaven’s sake, won’t someone come out and pin Joe’s ears back? He tells us he will take on all and sundry. (Joe’s a right nice guy really, but we have to make him the villain of this piece in order to have a story).
Anyway, Flying-Officer Colchester will be only too pleased to supply you with badminton rackets and “birds” whenever you want a go at this fast game. There are four courts in the Drill Hall – you can easily arrange a game, with any type of player.
A Wing Commander very fly,
Is sometimes called the C.F.I.
His Flight Commanders hover round,
With useless pupils they have found
He interviews them one by one,
A second glance he gives to some,
But see him at a graduation,
This really is a revelation.
45
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“A and B” Flights Win Armit Trophy
In Hard Fought Final
When the soccer team from “A and B” Flights met “H” Flight on Wednesday evening, it appeared that half the Station had turned out to watch the game – the other half learned of the score before the evening was out. The occasion was a momentous one in Station Soccer for it was the final of the League Championship, the winners being the first to hold the Armit trophy. Both teams have been hot contenders for the title and truly the game was a battle royal. It had all the ingredients of an English cup-tie game – the highly partisan crowd, grand football, with first class tackling and heading, an eventual penalty, a last minute goal, and, finally, the players being carried from the field shoulder high.
Excitement ran at high pitch throughout the whole game. It was clean and openly played. “A and B” truly deserving their victory of 2-0 by reason of a fine show put up by their forwards. Thompson at centre was a constant menace with his clever rushes down the centre of the field and his accurate distribution of the ball.
After a very even first half, in which neither side scored. “A and B” forwards, aided by their half-backs, dominated the play from the restart and it appeared obvious that a goal was soon forthcoming. “H” Flight made a quick reverse, however, and for a while it seemed that they would be the first to open the scoring. Charles, however, was unfortunate in shooting over an open goal.
First blood was drawn when, during pressure by “A and B” forwards, Corporal Wallace, “H”, handled the ball in the penalty area and gave Molloy a chance to score the opening goal of the match from the kick. This unexpected point caused excitement to rise to high pitch and fast and furious play ensued as “H” tried hard to wipe off the setback with an equalizer, but their forward line could not get going against the close play of their opponents and in the last quarter minute of play, LAC. Lord, a pupil, clinched the issue with a smashing goal from the inside right position.
The team was fully deserving of the applause it gained for a brilliant game. As for the losers, they were a plucky side, hindered by the injury, early in the game of LAC. Cook and this loss undoubtedly was responsible in some measure for their lack of smoothness. Their forwards were too often off side and it was unfortunate for them that they could not find the smooth team work which enthused their opponents from start to finish of the match.
Last Month’s Crossword
[Answers to the crossword clues]
The first correct solution opened was sent by Miss D. Bakstad, 405 Government Road, Weyburn, to whom a cheque for $5.00 will be forwarded as soon as the Editor returns from leave … or it may have to be deferred until the following pay day. Anyway, Mis Bakstad, you shall have your $5.00.
The Flying Gopher is published on the 15th of each month by and for the entertainment of the personnel of No. 41 S.F.T.S. (R.A.F.) at Weyburn, Saskatchewan, Canada. Printed for the Publishers by the Weyburn Review.
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[Advert for Pilsner beer]
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[Advert for Stinson-Powers Lts.]
[Advert for the Royal Hotel]
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[Advert for R.H. Williams & Sons]
[Advert for Snelgrove’s Sundaes]
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[Advert for The Lounge]
[Advert for Victory Cab]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Flying Gopher September 1942
Description
An account of the resource
This edition has adverts, an Editorial, reminisces by Dr Vyse, an appreciation of the arrival of the RAF at Weyburn, photographs of Weyburn, stories about Gremlins, a fictitious love story, photos of dances, Weyburn library, poems, love stories, a story about one man's postings, odd goings on around Weyburn, Notes by the different Flights on the base, light hearted station news and sporting news,
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
41 SFTS Weyburn
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-09
Format
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52 printed sheets
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MFordTA1585520-170411-14
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Saskatchewan--Weyburn
Saskatchewan
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-09
aircrew
entertainment
gremlin
Harvard
love and romance
sport
station headquarters
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1376/24330/MFordTA1585520-170411-15.1.pdf
8a624186f68dac2e4128dd6e39edf7e9
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Title
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Ford, Terry
Ford, T
Description
An account of the resource
135 items. The collection concerns Terry Ford. He flew operations as a pilot with 75 Squadron. It contains photographs, his log book, operational maps, letters home during training, and documents including emergency drills. There are two albums of photographs, one of navigation logs, and another of target photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Julia Burke and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-03-13
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Ford, T
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[Deleted] Garden Show [/deleted]
Grass Dance [deleted] Pubs [/deleted]
[Drawing of an aircraft flying over a single gravestone]
The Flying Gopher
JANUARY 1943
[Page break]
[Drawing of an aircraft flying over a single gravestone]
The Flying Gopher
The Journal of The Royal Air Force, No,41, Service Flying Training School,
Weyburn, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Published by the Kind Permission of Group Captain E.C. Emmett, M.C., D.F.C.
VOL.11. JANUARY, 1943 No. 2
Editorial
[Drawing of a thoughtful gopher with writing quill at a desk]
THE ad-less “Gopher” makes its bow. It is a thin creature, but you will find that appearances are deceptive. And that it contains almost the same amount of reading matter as its advertisement-padded predecessors. We hope you will find it no less interesting reading.
This is a memorable issue if only because every flight has rallied round and supplied us with the inside gen on its goings-on during the past month. This we think is a very good sign: we have been trying for some time to get a greater measure of contributions representative of you Maintenance and Flying Wing people, for it is you who really constitute the Unit; the rest of us are lesser, presumably necessary adjuncts.
We want your suggestions for improvement in your magazine. Tell us what you like and what you don’t like; if you know a chap who is a good cartoonist, or who has anything interesting to write about, persuade him to come out of his shell, and if he won’t come, let us know his name. We have our methods …
Deadline for copy will in future be the last day of the month. This means that everything topical will be at least two weeks old by the time it appears in print. We should, of course, prefer to serve it up warmer, but this is the best we can do with the production arrangements at our disposal. And by the way, when we fix that deadline, we shall be very glad to have as much copy as you can give us before that date, to save us any last-minute panic and excessive overtime.
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[Drawing of a Padre with wings, playing a harp]
BOMBS GONE
We’re sorry Flight Lieutenant Clarke
Prefers to leave you in the dark
Regarding his activities,
His likes, dislikes, proclivities,
His views regarding prohibition,
His most insistent inhibition …
We begged for something for the “Gopher,”
But this is all he’s written so far –
No Comments
[Signature]
We can but guess what his excuse
Can be for hiding thus the truth.
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SOLOSPROGGY
(With apologies to Lewis Carroll)
‘Twas flying, and the flaptious lac
Did tweek and puckle in his clogs.
The Gremlins lured, all ticipant,
And callous lurked instructor dogs.
Beware the Undercart my son,
The horn that blows, the lights that gleam.
Beware the Earlycheck, and shun
All aircraft on the starboard beam.
He took the gripple stick in hand,
He gave her boost, the waspie roared.
Fine was the pitch, the mixture rich.
He squeaked “I’m airborne! Praise the Lord!”
And so he reached the down-wind leg,
His throttle back, his wheels came down.
The cross-wind tension, pilot grim,
And crying “Gumptf,” came whiffling in.
“The circuit’s done, I haven’t spun”.
The gripple stick no longer slack,
He slipped it in, and with a grin
He came taxiffing back.
“And hast thou flown the Harvard bird?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Soloo! Solay!”
He chortled in his joy.
“MOONSHINE.”
THE PADRE PONDERS
The subject upon which to ponder is not difficult at this time of the year. For, by the time these words are read we shall have passed into another year with all its hopes.
The question which will come to the lips of many is “What has the new year in store for us?”
I think that one of the best mottoes to carry with us into and through the coming year is “Wise to resolve, and patient to perform.” Surely our past mistakes, our unwise choices, our impatience with places or people should convince us (if we are to transform obstacles into stepping stones) of the fruitfulness of both wisdom and patience.
What, then, of the future? Please God we shall experience times of happiness and joy, of peace and contentment, of encouragement and success. For. With these two weapons, wisdom and patience, in our hands, sorrow and loss, sickness and suffering, disappointment and disillusionment cannot destroy the inward peace.
When we look back on the failures of the past, let us remember that the present is ours, out of which a brighter future may be forged.
If any lesson has been learned from this little “pondering” let us practice it in our daily life; so that our own lives, the lives of others, and the welfare of our Station may be made sweeter by our presence. The will it be that which I wish you – “A Happy and Blessed New Year.”
Sincerely,
THE PADRE.
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[Underlined] OUR GRIPPING NEW SERIAL. [/underlined]
PRAIRIE PASSION
[Drawing of a girl sitting in a rocking chair, reading a book]
OUR red-head heroine, Gardenia Godlieb, intent in the pages of her book, was lounging in a rocking-chair in the home of her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Cyrus K. Godlieb, Fifty-seventh and Tortoise, Pemmican, Sask., famed co-organisers of the Pemmican Parents’ Guild.
Slim, saucy, cherry-lipped Gardenia, her gorgeous green eyes sparkling with excitement, chewed her pointed blood-red fingernails feverishly as she read the gripping tale of life in the Active Air Force, a book lent her by her latest beau, D’Arcy Dwindleberry, a real live LAC. who ran the flying side of the nearby R.A.F. No. 48 S.F.T.S.
The telephone rang. With a snort of disgust at the interruption and a muttered “Blast!” Gardenia laid aside her book, obligingly laying it with the cover uppermost so that we could see the title. Ah! Small wonder that she was so absorbed in her reading, for the book was none other than a copy of C.A.P. 100.
“Hul-lo,” she said languidly, casting as admiring glance at her dainty pointed shoes. “Oh, hi-ya, Moytle … Yeah, fine … Yeah, they’re both out … Aw, jest reading … My romance? Oh, jest fine. I had to tell him last nite I wasn’t That Sort of Goyl … What, he kissed you? … An officer? … A Pilot Officer? Not a real Pilot Officer? … What, me jealous? … Say, lookit here, Moytle, if you think I’d ever be jealous of a skinny little squoit like you … Aw shucks! And say, lookit, I’ll tell you sump’n. How many rings does a Pilot Officer have? … What, only one? Well, lookit here, I’ll get to grips with an officer with two rings on his arm, so there! … Yes, I betcha … Why, you skinny alley-cat, you tailless gopher you …” But Myrtle had evidently rung off.
Returned to her rocking-chair, our heroine again took up the Pilot’s Primer. But she could not concentrate, and even the visions conjured up by that gripping story could not hold her attention long. You, gentle reader, our astute observer concealed behind the chiffonier, could see her gorgeous green eyes gallivanting around, gazing unseeing at the cuspidor, tastefully inscribed “A Present from the Prairie,” which sat conveniently on top of the piano.
At last, with a determined snort she jumped to her feet, flinging the Book into a corner. (Mark this well, Reader! This is sacrilege, the first sign of the decadence of our Gardenia. There will be other signs, for sure, but do not despair – goodness will triumph over sinful impetuous youth. And don’t forget, folks, next time you pop in at the groceteria, buy a packet of Gobbo Gingers-up the Glottis. Sixty-five cents a large packet.)
If we could have but entered into the mind of Gardenia at this moment, settling behind those gorgeous glittering green eyes, we should have witnessed the successive conception and rejection
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of a score of plans. Gardenia is a girl of her word, and find that Flight Lieutenant she will, or perish in the attempt.
Cat-like she paced the floor, and every time she passed the window it was a full-time job for us to restrain you gentle Reader from jumping up and spoiling the whole effect by falling on your knees and declaring your love for the gorgeous Gardenia. For the rays of the setting sun limned her glorious coiffure, which seemed to leap into flaming life at its touch. (Is your hair becoming to you? If not, you had better be coming to Brer Rabbit’s Drug Store for a bottle of Hippo – Hippo Helps the Hair Grow Gorgeous.)
At long last our heroine hit upon a plan which seemed to satisfy her; she stopped, and with a self-satisfied smirk which suffused her satin cheek she cried “A-ha!” and hurried from the room. This exclamation was fortunate, coming when it did, for our Gardenia’s smirk revealed to us watchers behind the chiffonier so perfect a set of pearly molars that we whistled loudly in unison (Dentyne chewing gum, Dentyne chewing gum. If you want to keep fit, chew a bit of it. Chew Dentyne chewing gum.) But all is well. Gardenia was too preoccupied with her own plans to hear us.
Upstairs, propriety forbade us to follow the lovely Miss Godlieb, but we had not long to wait. A moment later she came racing down again, and we turned aside to conceal our blushes as, in the speed of her descent, an unduly great proportion of her exquisitely formed lower limbs was revealed to our innocent gaze. She made for the telephone, and asked for – the Legion Hall!
“Is there a dance on? … Are many Air Force Officers there? …” She slammed back the receiver and was out of the house like a flash of glamourous greased lightning.
Quickly, Reader, let us follow her, and pray that we may save her from the consequences of her rash act, as she enters the Den of Iniquity.
(To be continued.)
PRAIRIE MADNESS
There’s a majesty in space
That rivals mountain’s weight …
There’s a frankness to a place
That has no bars nor gate –
The prairie stretches out and yields
Full length and breadth of soil
Bearing swaying wheat in fields
Through which the giant combines toil.
But man must seek for priceless gems
And so must leave the highway,
Following a trail between the stems
Of wheat – past the stack of hay,
On to open prairie wild,
Where tumble-weeds bloom and die,
And crocuses are beguiled
To nestle the turf where they lie.
Past the farm, down to the slough,
Where wilds ducks cry and trouble
The rush-fringed water, through
Each small pool and sodden stubble.
Nor does the charm pass with the day
As sunset reeks across the sky,
With warrior reds and stormy grey
To paint a majesty of fury –
A storm of dust, a thunder clap,
A sudden flash, a fork of flame –
Then part the clouds, and through the gap
Shines down the moon as if in shame.
H.G.V.
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STOP! POLICE!
This is the result of being caught yarning one night by the Ed. He asked for it, and here it is.
I remember those early days well – I’m going back nine or ten years now, mind you – but I still remember them well. I have good reason to do so. The first few days in uniform on the streets of London you never forget. The particular yarn I‘m going to spin you is of something which happened in my first few weeks of beat duty. I was on late turn (i.e. 2 to 10 p.m.). The time was about 7.30 p.m., and it was dark.
Having not been long out of Peel House, I was pretty full of everything, and my craze at that particular time was for remembering the list of stolen cars. Things were quiet, and I was doing no more than watch the flow of traffic, catching as many numbers as possible. After a few minutes of this, it happened. I repeated a number to myself and suddenly leaped about three feet into the air, and had my car list out before touching ground again. Yes, it was there – a Stolen Car!
I saw a glorious future ahead - my Great Chance – capture the car and the thief – commendations – promotion – and without delay I jumped into the roadway and stopped the nearest car. Standing on the running board, I yelled to the driver ”There’s a car ahead I want to catch – go like hell!”
The driver looked at me astonished – a gleam came into his eye.
“You mean it?” he said. “Flat out? No lights to stop me – no limits?”
I had time to nod, and then the fun started. The driver shot up the street like a bat out of Hades. His car was a V8 and it certainly could move.
After thirty seconds I realized that I was for it. I had one foot on the running board, and one hand on the door handle – the rest of me was swinging in the wind. The rush of air had me speechless. I couldn’t signal the driver to stop before he had to. I think he had dreamed of such a chance as this all his driving life, and he certainly saw to it that all his dreams came true. He passed everything there was to pass on the road, ignored traffic signals, drove on either side of the road or the pavement when there wasn’t room, kept his horn going steadily, and just kept flat out.
I had just about reached the limit of my endurance – my fingers were beginning to lose their grip on the door handle – when he leaned over to ask for further instructions. I think from the look on my face he saw I rather wanted to stop, and he started slowing down. When we were still doing a good 20-30 m.p.h. I couldn’t hold on any longer, and I went flat in the road, rolling over and over, and finishing up in a not too clean gutter.
I was sitting on the kerb when he came up to me – apologising for not having been able to catch the car for me – and all I could do was mumble some thanks and get rid of him. He left me there, and I was a sorry sight – greatcoat torn, bruised, skinned and filthy.
It took me ten minutes to find my helmet again. It cost me 2/6 for a taxi back to my beat, and when I got there I found I had missed a “ring in.” It took me another half hour to provide an excuse for that, and I spent the rest of the time till 10 p.m. getting myself clean.
That night after booking-in I retired to bed, a wiser and sadder man, realizing that in future when I saw a stolen car it would be much easier and couldn’t be less successful to carry out the official instructions, simply telephone to the proper quarter at Scotland Yard, and leave the rest to the squad cars.
EX-COPPER.
An airman in distant Ontario
Applied for a shift to the prairio.
But oh! When at last he got thario
And found all the prairie barrio
He had a most horrible scario,
And ran all the way back to Ontario.
The moral, we think, should be clario:
Ontario’s better than prairio.
[Drawings of two single flowers]
[Page break]
[Photograph of a mountain valley] BOW VALLEY]
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TAIL-END CHARLIE
The warm clad flyer shifts uneasily in his narrow perch – these turrets are not built for comfort; their’s is a stern purpose and the lives of others rest on this man’s shoulders. The restless, searching eyes are never still and the trained hand is never far from the compact but deadly little gun.
He knows his responsibilities and bears them with the confidence of a man who has been in tight corners before and has won through by his skill and coolness.
The keen eyes pause and narrow in their questing sweep as a small dark speck resolves in the haze of distance and grows. The speck becomes a shape and the shape – an aircraft, but still the eyes maintain their vigil, scanning the seemingly innocent blue of space; long and costly experience has endowed an extra sense that now warns quietly but insistently that danger threatens from another quarter. Away to the right a second winged shape confirms this inner warning.
An impatient hand slides to the gun trigger with the ease borne of practice while the cold eyes choose the nearer of the two slim silhouettes as the first target. The plane is nearer now, and the pilot’s head is dimly visible in the streamlined cockpit, peering ahead, with deadly concentration gauging the distance. Nearer yet, and the longing finger tenses around the tiny steel projection speeding on its grim mission.
A convulsive jerk and the gun has fired – the explosion is drowned in the crescendo of the engine’s roar, an angry red glare illuminates the startled features of the young pilot in the approaching plane. He opens his throttle and breaks away, his previous intentions forgotten – he now has troubles of his own. The figure in the turret shivers …
“It’s a bit of a bind being Aerodrome Control Pilot in this weather!” mutters the pupil, thrusting a fresh signal cartridge into his Very pistol in the turret on the yellow van …
J.S.R.H.
PRAIRIE LAMENT
The friendly flag at Weyburn is waving in the breeze,
The hard-worked Duty Pilots are all down on their knees;
We love to see it waving, its message glad to tell, -
For do we want to fly, Sir? I’ll say we do – Like H - !
And when they haul it down, Sir, our tears we cannot hide;
We push the kites around, Sir, and it’s ten below outside;
We start the censored engines, and they make a censored roar,
But if we had our way, Sir, we wouldn’t fly no more.
We wave the chocks away, Sir, and we leave the drome behind.
The censored hood comes over (another censored bind!)
The gyro spins like fun, Sir, I’m feeling cold and sick,
And P/O Prune up forward keeps yanking on the stick.
At last we’re back to earth, Sir, another hour to book,
And all the P/O gives us is a should-be-censored look;
But now we’re past all caring, as anyone can see,
And the only thing worth living for is Ops in ’43.
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Key Men – No. 5
O.C. “SPARKS”
[Photograph of a man sitting talking on the telephone]
The C.O.? No, I’m sorry. The Adjutant? No, not today. Squadron Leader Johnson is decorating the Recreation Hall … Will I do? Yes, the Adjutant’s adjutant …
What’s this, Corporal? A signal to sign? Oh, it’s alright by me if it’s alright with you …
Oh, Taylor, ask Greer if he’s seen the shorts we had on last week … He can’t find them? I mean the celluloid ones – no, not cellophane, fathead!
You like my overshoes, Harrison? What’s that? Remind you of boats? Don’t mention that word to me!
What was that, Williams? You don’t know the meaning of the word. Why, when I was in Jericho …
&@lb @H GZ@lb @lb&& J… Oh, so sorry, I was speaking in cypher. Here’s an easy one for you, anyway:
LLOR NO EHT TOAB.
YOUR MONEY
Very often we hear people saying “What happens to the P.S.I. funds? I don’t see what good we get from them?”
Last month we told you a little of some of the things which have been done for you from the Service Institute Funds. We give below the chief expenditures made from the Funds during the first year of the Station. The figures are accurate to within a dollar or two either way.
Billiard Tables (4) and Equipment … $2,388.00
Dance Band Instruments … 1,241,00
Military Band Instruments … 1,316.00
Library books … 150.00
Pianos and Radios … 465.00
Gramophone Records … 317.00
P.A. Unit … 300.00
Stage Props and Scenery, etc. … 200.00
Skates … 1,000.00
Sports Gear … 2,500.00
Washing Machines and Electric Irons … 239.00
Extra Messing during year ended December, 1942 … 3,410.00
In addition to the above many lesser grants and expenditures appear in the P.S.I. accounts, which are open for inspection by anyone at any time at S.H.Q.
Figures cannot lie. We hope you ae satisfied now that your money is well spent.
If you have any constructive suggestions regarding the administration of the Institute funds, we look to you to hand them on to any member of the P.S.I. Committee.
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LOOKING BACK
Capt. Charles A. Greene
(Late Flight Lieut. R.F.C., R.A.F.)
“Maurice Farmans, B.E. 2 c’s, R.E 8’s, D.H. 4’s, D.H. 9’s, 10’s and 11’s, Avros, Snipes and Bristol Fighters – what the devil is this man talking about?” asks P.O. Prune.
Perhaps I had better explain. These were some of our training and fighter machines of the last war. If I had space to draw them, then Prune would indeed think he had a hectic night in the Mess the night before.
Pictures of the Wright Brothers’ early machines will convey the lines of most of them and such dazzling speeds as 40 to 100 miles an hour cover their propulsion through space. Three ply, doped linen and lots of wires endeavoured to keep body and soul together, and although surprising, did so in about 80 per cent of our fighting craft.
How were they to manipulate? Well, I can best describe them by a simile. Have you ever driven, say, a Morris Cowley?
To seat me in a modern kite reminds me of the Rolls Royce, and as explained by quite a number of instructors, providing one still retains a good memory, then flying is easier today.
To sit on one of the old buses – well, it was like the Cowley – one definitely had to drive it, and even at its best it called for 100 per cent effort of concentration and real physical exertion in order to get the best out of it.
Do not think for a moment that I am old fashioned to the extent of being prejudiced, as I realize only too fully that what was to us a long flight is now only a testing flip, but from my simile what I would convey to the modern pilot is that in the old buses one did not get any automatic assistance wither from the machine or its instruments, and that they were solely an engine that had the habit of developing all kinds of mannerisms unwanted in the air, combined with a fuselage usually of thin wooden slats, doped canvas and, as we called them, bits of string to hold everything together.
Open cockpits, of course, were the order of the day, and no flying helmet unless the weather was really atrocious.
Parachutes were then in their infancy and although we were equipped with them, one never really wanted to join “The Caterpillar Club,” as a good average for opening safely was about seven out of ten, and one always feared that he would be one of the three which proved the rule.
Training? – well, I think it would appeal to you guys. Usually, if you were lucky it took three months. One month was occupied in getting absolutely perfectly physically fit, both in body and mind – to realize that for the first time in your life you were alive. Don’t misunderstand or underestimate the time of training. It was called “intensive” in official circles and by many another name in other circles.
You were either made or broken and always faced with R.T.U. (Returned to Unit). It was a 5.30 a.m. to 8 p.m. day, during which you were equipped as an Infantryman, including rifle, and underwent square training and plenty of slow marching, whilst the C.S.M. fired general knowledge questions at you, such as: “Where are you facing?” and “What was the chief item of war news this morning?” Failure to register usually brought the retort: “Fancy, you are going to be an officer and a gentleman and yet your mind does not work above the drill you are at present performing>” You are supposed to be drilling automatically, leaving your mind clear for any emergency that may arise.
Interlaced with squad drill was a form of compass bearings on foot, which combined compass readings with a route march, inasmuch as, given a number of bearings, one tramped the countryside to the given intersection and reported. Failure to report on several occasions would bring the inevitable R.T.U.
Rigging, engines (theoretical and practical), cameras, bombs and general aeronautics all found their allotted place in the syllabus.
From there on to your Flying School, where from the first few flips on a Maurice Farman (a pusher type) one progressed to a dual control on Avros. What a sensation when, unknown to yourself, the plane was landed and your
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instructor told you that you had done it “all by your little self.” I believe it was from that proud moment that one developed a “wing” chest and strode forward with an exaggerated thrust of the left shoulder. Fifteen hours of dual, and then your first solo. The sensations of this, your first solo, need no description from me. You have all experienced them and Anno Domini has not changed.
From then onwards, fear of R.T.U. became more distant, especially as the call for more pilots at that period strained the R.A.F. to its utmost.
Fifteen hours of fairly good solo flights, comprising bombing, aerobatics, etc. and you were booked for “the other side” or perhaps more specialized training for “lighter than air” craft. Often when one had finished and had that urge for a first encounter, one had to be content and have another three to four weeks’ training to fit one for a “Blimp” or a semi-rigid ship which was used very often in the last show for convoy work.
However, looking back, this had its brighter side, as one was pretty sure of surviving if on the “lighter than air” side of flying, whereas flying a heavier than air machine during this period was always a risk, even in the Mother Country, owing to the lack of knowledge and exercise by our designers and also rushed and short training. Do not think I am belittling our designers as this would be an unforgivable crime, but only years of development and wars can bring to almost finality the type of craft which we use today.
Good machines and lengthy instruction can bring only one result, and that is air supremacy; so, when the training seems long and you are itching to take your place among our front line men, remember this and try to realize that when your training is complete, you are 100 per cent pilot and have every chance of coming out on top.
GROUND SCHOOL GOSSIP
I’d much rather write “X“ Flight Notes than set down the doings of those who pass their days in this academic pile. Why? Well, in the first place there is so little difference between one month and another and secondly, while the school still possesses many “good types” there is a tendency with every change in our staff, for the School’s personnel to become less colourful! However, full of remorse and Canadian hospitality (in the reverse order) I, faithful stooge that I am, bring you the highlights of the school’s new news as furnished by D.R.O’s., Pupils Standing Orders, etc.
Prior to the Christmas holiday, the C.G.I. gathered the staff together to wish them “All the Best.” A pupil peeking through the door of the lecture room during the proceedings was heard to remark “Oh Boy, if the Devil would only cast his net now”!
Returned from the festivities I decided that it might be of interest if I could find out how our GEN MEN passed their leisure during their five days break. Possibly I started a little too early in the day for, on interviewing the Chief Gun Man, I was greeted with a nasty scowl. “How did you enjoy Christmas?” I asked. “xx - // !! Oh my head – Get Out!” The Nav. instructors were next. “Bed at three in the morning and up again at twelve” was all I could get from this section. “That’s not news” I thought recalling that they had all been to Regina (Q. of the P.). Sgt. F.E. Carr was abrupt but civil. “I did nothing wrong,” was all he would say. WOPerational Sgt. Blacklock had little to say and the only statement he would make was “What with one thing and another, not to mention Command, I hardly noticed anything.” There was nothing being given away by Sgt. Jock. He said “They do the same in Moose Jaw as they do in most places.”
So now perhaps you see what I mean. These people are NOT NEWS and yet “The Gopher” cries for more.
ANSWERS TO PUPILS’ QUERIES
Q. I was playing cards with three sergeants and at one time there were five aces on the table at the same time. I did not say anything. But is this rare? – PUZZLED.
A. Yes and No. The ordinary civilian pack, except in race trains, etc., contains four aces only. But these things occur. You were quite right to make no comment.
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[Drawing of a Christmas Tree] CANADIAN CHRISTMAS
Canadian Christmas, 1942, now belongs to memory.
For a few days many of us escaped in some measure from the clutches of Service thought and routine, became warmly flesh and blood again, satiated the inner man, purged the spirit, and return invigorated to camp to work and grouse harder than before. How we behaved or misbehaved, what we did am what we should not have done, belongs not to these pages but to the pages of memory.
Those of us who stayed in Weyburn will not easily forget this Christmas. In the homes of our friends most of us spent at least a part of the Day, and we found there that cheerful friendship which has endeared you Canadians to us, only it now appeared in ever increased force. We became members of your families, and the Christmas we enjoyed with you proved a very good second best to those we remember in previous years on the other side of the Atlantic.
On the following Sunday our very good friends of the Hostess Club gave us a most enjoyable evening, and to them too, we are grateful.
Many of us left the camp, and in New York, Vancouver, Regina, Winnipeg, Chicago, Saskatoon, Calgary, Minneapolis, Toronto, Milestone, Lang, Ceylon, Minot, and many other places we found ourselves again. To all who helped in any measure, by a cheery greeting, a card, a gift, a smile, we say “Thank You!”
CHRISTMAS IN CAMP
Christmas or not, the war goes on, and many of us had to spend our Christmas in and around the camp. Our Christmas was none the less a festive season, however, and on later pages we reproduce some of the photographs taken by out photographer as he wandered around the camp.
The Christmas Spirit came really into evidence on December 22nd. True, for some time past we had been denied access to No. 2 Dining Hall, and coloured lights showing through its windows conspired with Christmas trees placed strategically around the camp to prove that the calendar wasn’t lying, and that it really was the eve of Christmas. But the Pantomime really brought this home to us, for to us from the Old Country the very word Pantomime has a Christmas ring.
If you saw the Panto, we think our photographs will remind you of it better than any write-up on these pages; if you missed it, the loss is yours, and nothing we can write will atone for it. But a word of thanks would not be out of place to Flight Lieutenant Whiteside, the producer, LAC. Wedd, writer of the lyrics, Len Churton, who attended to the musical side, and to all members of the cast and stage staff on a really splendid show.
Christmas Day brought the traditional Christmas Dinner, its production a triumph for the cookhouse staff, headed by F/Sgt. Towns, and its serving undertaken without major disaster by the Officers and Senior NC.Os. True, the Padre’s fingers looked milky, and we saw F/Lt. Whiteside with his hands literally full of pudding, but these were minor mishaps. We have it on reliable authority that Sister Johnson was issuing I.O.Us., there being a deplorable absence of mistletoe … A general issue of the latest of late passes brought a memorable day to a close.
On December 19th a special show had been organised in Weyburn for the local children, and a week later on Boxing Day a large number of children were entertained to a party in the camp, where fun and games were the order of the day.
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[Photograph of a man in uniform on a slide holding a child] Our younger visitors enjoy themselves on Boxing Day.
The handful of unfortunates who were compelled to spend their Christmas in Sick Quarters were not forgotten. On Christmas Eve, members of the concert party put on a show for their benefit, and Christmas Day itself was fully planned, from a visit by Father Christmas, suitably loaded, and a program of carols in the morning to a quiz and entertainment in the afternoon, and a film show in the evening.
We would rather have been at home, of course, but we think that our Christmas on the prairies could not easily be improved upon, and we offer our thanks to all those from C.O. and S/L. “A” to AC2 C and B who contributed in any way to our enjoyment.
[Photograph of men listening to music in the Sick Quarters] A Merry Christmas in the Sickery.
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OFFCIERS’ MESS (!)
Proposed New Club – Members to date: (in order of seniority): F/O Colchester, F/O Rutledge, F/Lt. Meyer, Lt. Brechin, P/O Jones (E.L.), F/Lt. Everett, P/O Hearn (Old Country member), P/O Butt.
Who are the Rats?
Which three girls were recently chosen “Miss Weyburn – 1943”?
Too good for words – F/O. Large
S-Kate-ing on thin ice – Fickle F/O. Frank.
Once upon a short time it was all BUTT – now we hear it is all but over.
We understand that F/O Wheeler retired early at the Mess Formal. Luckily F/O “Snake” St. John was standing by – and standing IN at the Pantomime a few evenings later.
We think F/O Hirsch gets wirsch and wirsch.
F/O Rutledge is seeing things from the ground – and singly for a few days.
Delightlful, d’lovely Delaney reappeared recently and was seen “flashing” at the Panto after a terrific reception.
After the last formal dance, F/O “Jonah” walked straight to his quarters. Surprising.
Heard at the “formal” – “No, the real one wears a moustache.”
S/Ldr. “Uppards” Greenwood was a recent winner at the Sergeants Draw.
They closed the Draw before P/O Coney could win the Bar Stools.
“Wingy” Johnson recently held a super-exclusive promotion party.
S/Ldr. Cox recently declared, quote: Everything matters now – including Victory.
Importers at the Formal Dance, P/O Gable-Pearce, F/O Dick Clancey and P/O (Brownjob) Bowering. P/O Jones contented himself with “Local Fare.”
The “formal” was a great success – many officers brought their ladies and pranced around to “Swinger” Churton and Company.
S/Ldr. Thomas was fortunately in town for the event. He departed for an unknown destination (by air, of course) at dawn the next morning.
Doc. Halson (Did you recognise him?) almost neglected F/Lt. Stealey’s and F/O Miller’s partners.
K.H. “Line-Shoot” Ledbrook left to entertain a new audience in New York.
Searchers for post-Formal entertainment rendezvoused at stately down-town McKinnon block. There seemed to be a shortage of taxis from Weyburn city that morning.
New Mess Motto: “Careless Talk Costs Wives.”
After a wet evening at the Sergeants’ Mess, P/O Riby is writing a new book – “Mein Dampf.”
P/O Carruthers’ recent stay in Station Hospital was brightened by a frequent charming visitor. Interviewed, F/Os. Wheeler and Reade and P/Os Webster and Parkin each said “What can I do about it?” Hart-less, we think.
Laidler-Whiteside scored a great success with his Station Panto. We understand he is working on a special Officers’ Panto, entitled “Doc and the Mess Talk.”
F/Lt. Morris wishes to thank all officers who recently presented him with a new best blue barathea.
1943 Saying – “Where there’s Hope, there’s Life.”
“Uncle Tom” Isaac is due back any day from a trip to “lil ol” New York. He just could not believe all those stories Dick Clancy, Doc Halson and Lionel Wheeler told him.
Heard at the Formal – “No, No, that one’s her husband.”
Decorating Dixon helped to make the Mess bright for the festivities.
He himself was well lit at the dance.
Which Medical Officer did NOT receive a greeting card from the local undertaker?
Which Officer – uninvited to Hawaiian party in McKinnon block – attempted to force-land on the doorstep during night flying? Sarong thing to do.
F/O Wheeler was found asleep in the Mess at midnight recently, (contrary to O.M. Regs. And C.O. No. 14). Dreaming of a White Christmas?
Incidentally C.O. No. 14 was to our surprise introduced the very day “Flash” Henley departed on Christmas leave for a date with the stork.
An Officer BELIEVED to be F/Lt. Collingwood was recently seen in the Mess.
(Continued at foot of page 15.)
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CORRESPNDENCE
To: O.C. Works and Bricks
From: L.A.C. F---.
Sir,
I beg to submit this report on a collision with one of your vehicles, together with my suggestions as to the way in which repetition of this accident may best be avoided, which latter are submitted in accordance with D.R.O. No. 310, dated 30th December, 1942.
2. At 4.49 p.m. B-U-L-O-V-A Bulova Watch Time on December 30th, whilst proceeding on my lawful way about the camo I was made the recipient of a large quantity of snow, blown into the air by a large moving object, yellow in color (colour), which was engaged in clearing the road running between the Drill Hall and Airmen’s Mess. This machine is, I gather, known as a Snow Blower, and in operation it attempts to remove hard caked snow from the camp roads by picking it up by means of a form of scoop and blowing it backward through a bent chimney.
3. But I do not wish, Sir, to question the efficacy of this device at the present time, so I will continue with my account of the collision. As I turned into the road on which the collision occurred, I walked into the cloud of snow blown back from the blower. I was, of course, totally unaware that it originated from a machine, and, believing myself caught in a blizzard, took appropriate action, lowering my head, placing my hands in the pockets of my greatcoat, and proceeding in small stumbling paces, cursing vehemently between clenched teeth.
4. As I proceeded in this manner, head well down, flaps down too (20 cents), my groundspeed evidently was greater than that of the blower, with the result that I came into collision with the rear of the said machine. Fortunately neither your machine nor myself sustained serious injury, and apart from the inconvenience of having a large quantity of snow deposited upon my person, I was to all intents and purposes able to continue on my way to my biller.
5. In order that further incidents of this sort, from which the airman concerned will not always of necessity escape unscathed, may be prevented, I beg to suggest that a signal hooter be affixed to the machine to indicate its presence to anyone traversing the same road as the machine. Failing this, I suggest that a suitably colored or coloured dye be injected into the snow before it is expelled from the machine, in order that personnel may be able readily to distinguish between a blizzard and the handiwork of the snow blower. (It is observed that even in Canada a maroon blizzard is something of a rarity).
6. I submit Sir, that until some precautionary measures are taken this aforesaid Snow Blower constitutes a serious hazard to the life and limb of many an innocent airman, and should be withdrawn from service.
I am, etc.,
R.W.F.,
We are pleased to record that S/Ldr. Cox has had no further Safe trouble.
Even P/O Ellis put up a new decoration for Christmas.
Does P/O Germain really like Station Orderly Officer Duties?
F/O Thomas’s car and a tractor recently made Weyburn city.
At the Formal, when someone asked F/Lt. Stealey for the loan of his partner for a dance, Stealey looked quite Stealey – if you know what we mean.
Showers – even when greatcoats are worn – are to be taken only in accordance with D.R.O. No. 303 dated 21/12/42.
Is P/O Whitfield Prim and Proper?
Heard after the Formal – Doc. Halson’s remark: “I feel like a million dollars – overdraft.”
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A SHORT HISTORY OF B FLIGHT
ON the occasion of our impending first anniversary as a flight, we are, without any apology, about to reminisce.
It is not generally remembered that “B” Flight was in existence even before the first course started flying, for the purpose of getting our five kites into the air, equipped with two parachutes, held together thanks to Mrs Hancocks’ foresight in providing the C.I. with equipment to overcome all eventualities, and also to “convert” our T.E. instructors. We boasted at that time three experiences S.E. pilots, F/O (now F/Lt.) Stealey, F/O Jones, and P/O Greenhalgh, all of whom had the glorious total of 30 hours on type, and three who were in need of conversion, having nil hours, to wit F/O Provenzano, ex Eagle Squadron, and our first graduate to the U.S. Army Air Corps, Sgt. De Roeck, now a P/O at Kingston, and Sgt. Easterman, now Flight Sergeant, and of course F/Sgt. Rowlands (now W.O.), who managed miracles of maintenance with approximately one screwdriver.
During the first three weeks of flying, which were probably the finest three weeks of flying weather we have yet experienced at Weyburn, some of us were duly converted, and others departed to commence instruction of the never-to-be-forgotten 36 Course. F/O (“When I was on ‘ops’”) Provenzano was still Flight Commander, F/O (now F/Lt. and the Boss) Bennett had joined us, and the remainder were F/O Steadley, P/O Greenhalgh, P/O Large (alias P/O Prune), and F/Sgt. “Tubby Sebastian” Earp (“I’m tired of flying”).
And with the beginning of No. 36 Course began also our efforts to find heat, and our curiously coincident movement from hangar to hangar to hangar. Thus every few days we were bundled into a new hangar, there to huddle together in the Flight Commander’s office, wearing greatcoats, flying clothing, and newly acquired winter hats, with flaps down, into, and across, and down wind.
In spite of it all, though, and in spite also of the fact that the chequered flag became more and more familiar, No. 36 Course began to go solo, and everyone started learning about our flying machine. “Chiefy” Rowlands began to acquire more tools, and in their spare time the ground crew – Molloy, Parker, Hardstaffe, Thompson and Allin, supervised by Corporals Tomes and Westwood, constructed chocks or just used blocks of wood. Bradford even went to sleep over his charts.
Then came the thaw - and Buttress. On the F. 17s appeared the magic words “From Buttress – to Buttress,” and Ansons took off with staggering loads of potential pilots. The most remarkable things were done at Weyburn and at Buttress to keep the aircraft serviceable, and words cannot describe the extraordinary way in which “Chiefy” Rowlands and “Robby” did their splendid jobs of work. The telephone worked overtime, the ground crew worked overtime, and the aircrew sometimes got stuck. But of Buttress more in the next issue. The whole episode deserves a magazine to itself.
EVERY DEBIT
Once more the festive season is past, together with its usual complement of full stomachs and hangovers, and regretfully the Accounts Wallahs realize that they must put their noses to the grindstone once more and keep their pencils well sharpened. It is with feelings of great trepidation that we look forward to the New Year, with Pay Accounts wondering how many more procedures are to be thrust upon them, and equipment living in dread of the Auditors’ forthcoming descent to disturb their somnolent calm.
At the time of writing, most of the staff have not returned from their Xmas leave and it occurs to us who are left to wonder what sort of a line our “Rush – this is for a soldier” A/G. has been shooting to his tootsie from Brooklyn, whether our resident of Berkley Square has really got himself married in Lethbridge, how many girls in Minneapolis now have broken hearts over those two gallant heroes of the skies Cpls. Luffman and Warren; whether Cpl. Longstaffe really did tell the folks in Chicago that his “A” only means Auxiliary, and whether Cp. Drewery has been “nipping around smartly” in spite of his “Blighty” feet. However all our questions and many more will be answered in a few days and so we sink back into our lethargy with the inevitable cry “Roll on the Boat.”
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SERGEANTS’ MESS NOTES
Many farewells this month. At last “Chiefy” Brockington is on the boat and he has taken with him Sgt. “Blondie” Evans. Brock had a great send off from the gang and no doubt he will remember the Mess-on-the-prairies for many years to come.
* * *
We shall miss Tom Riby. Tom has now received his commission and his departure from our Mess to the Officers’ coincided with our losing Ryck Ryckman on posting to Winnipeg and W.O. Doug Campbell who has been whisked across Canada to somewhere in New Brunswick. Thus most of the Sergeants’ Mess Concert Party left us in one day. It only eaves Hal Jones and Frank Hartnell, and rumour has it that Hal Jones in sweating on the boat and may be away shortly.
* * *
The Quiz programme on Saturday nights has “caught on” and the “Oscar” (now worth $6) has not yet been won.
* * *
Members who stayed in camp over Xmas were treated to a very unusual sight for someone shaved off half of Flight Sergeant Harrison’s moustache off. He was very proud of his half moustache until he woke up on Boxing Day morning and looked in the mirror.
Visitor to the Mess was W.O. Sowerby who paid us a call from Penhold; at the request of Lofty Rainey he did he celebrated settee act. A table of four sat up till the early hours binding about the past.
* * *
The Xmas Draw was a wow.
Over $200 in prizes were distributed during the evening and Mrs. Hancocks and Mrs. Ayres presided over the draw. Amongst the winners were the Group Captain, S/L. “A”, Wing Commander Hancocks, and the two gem prizes went to P/O. Coney who won a Bottle and a Cocktail Set.
A packet of ExLax was won by F/Lt. Ross.
* * *
And, in conclusion, we enquire whether “Tubby” Earp has built that road from Estevan to Froude? … If Flight Sergeant Holland ever reads D.R.O.’s …? If Bob Betts can do A.C.P. by remote control from Regina? … Who smacked the geranium at Ron Gee’s house? … Is Dick Richardson really posted to Servicing? … Was Sgt. Blacklock playing in an orchestra at Command …?
STORES GOSSIP
Amidst masses of inventories, vouchers, C.A.Ps., and all the other paraphernalia connected with our job, and faced with the pleasant prospect of five days absence from it all ahead of us, we are attempting to contribute our monthly effort to this month’s “Gopher.”
Our building has recently been caged in and put outside the camp gates. There have been several rumors floating around as to why this has been done, but we can assure you that it wasn’t done to keep you out – we can never hope to do that it seems! We are pleased to observe, however, that with the aid of Station Standing Orders, D.R.Os., our prominent notice board, and umpteen verbal instruction, people are generally getting to know our hours of business.
A year or so ago we were housed temporarily in No. 5 Hangar, trying to post vouchers with one gloved hand and tend a smoking stove with the other – and thinking of home. Today we are permanently settled within our cage, working in comparative comfort (if no one leaves the door open!) – and still thinking of home. Who knows, tomorrow may see our dreams coming true – and pigs might fly!
At the moment we are looking forward, like everyone else, to a well-earned rest, and – curse it! there goes that bell. “Yes, Sir, the Padre’s inventory is ready … No, Sir, there are no clothing parades today … Yes, Sir, the paper work’s almost up to date. … Er, can I have an early chit, Sir?”
Look out, Winnipeg, here I come!
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SPORTS
[Drawing of a man playing basketball]
BOXING
The major sporting event of the month was the first Station Boxing Tournament, held in the Drill Hall on December 15th. A very good evening’s entertainment was enjoyed by a large crowd. Several of the contestants seemed rather short of training, but the standard of boxing was generally high.
The results were as follows:
LAC. Thompson beat LAC. Jones (k.o.).
LAC. Walters beat Cpl. Tate on points.
LAC. Marshall beat AC. Howard on points.
Cpl. Farley beat LAC. Harris in the second round.
LAC. Willis beat AC. Annear on points.
Cpl. Roberts beat LAC. Adams on points.
LAC. Recile beat LAC. Taylor on points.
LAC. Stokes beat AC. Scott on points.
During the interval a mock “pro” bout was fought to a bitter and surprising end. It took the form of a challenge match between “Delayed Action” Hartnell and “Tornado” Robinson. The former, in spite of a flagrant disregard of the training rules regarding smoking (he entered the ring behind an outsize cigar) administered the k.o. with such paralyzing effect that it was not until the arrival of the stretcher that his opponent fell to the floor.
Another boxing tournament is planned for 17th February. There is plenty of time between now and that date for training. There must be many people on the camp who have sufficient knowledge of boxing at least to make a showing. We hope that they will come along, and thereby encourage others to take part. Pilot Officer Ryley, who organized the first tournament, has several assistants, all of whom are eager and willing to instruct and help you in any way they can. Take advantage of their knowledge, and turn up to the practices in the Drill Hall.
BASKETBALL
Most of us are very much beginners at this game, and in order to help us the Weyburn Collegiate team have offered to come up to the camp and show us how. We have already met them once in Weyburn, when the Station was beaten during extra time by 32 points to 26. This is a pretty good effort for our first game, but the result is not the important point. What mattered most was that those who played saw their mistakes, learned something about tactics, particularly the zone defence, which presents a very formidable barrier. The Collegiate team will be visiting the camp shortly to give us another game, and we hope that as many of you as possible will come along to take advantage of this opportunity of seeing the game.
[Drawings]
A drunk in Manitoba
Thought he sang like Tauba
His neighbors talked it oba,
And shot him dead – and soba.
The moral then, is woba
Tide him, drunk or soba,
Who sings like Richard Tauba
And lives in Manitoba.
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THAT CHRISTMAS DINNER
AT YOUR SERVICE
[Photograph of a group of people behind dining tables]
…BUT YOU SHOULD SEE IT AT CHRISTMAS!
[Photograph of rows of dining tables in a decorated canteen]
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[Drawing of a chequered flag] Around the Hangars
H
We wrote the most brilliant notes ever for the December issue, but like so many of our ace pupes on cross-countries, they got lost for no apparent reason. This month, however, we are rather at a loss, as there has been so little flying that the pupes have had little chance to do anything very Prune-like; no ground loops, no prangs, no nothing … Or can it be because we are so efficient?
First let us congratulate Flight Lieutenant Walker on his elevation to the Temple as Examining Officer. However, we also sympathise, as owing to the size of courses he will have to insinuate himself into the back seats of the despised buzz-boxes rather more often than he would wish.
We also extend a welcome to our new Skipper, F/O. Griffiths, who has already made his presence felt by subletting all the awkward jobs to each and every one of his stooges. We haven’t seen F/O. Miller out in the garden with his pick and spade.
Have any flights evolved new formulae for the “hours flown” charts? If so, please give us the gen, as the ever-increasing red sector is demoralising us, and the coffee flag is flying so regularly that our timekeeper hasn’t a chance to use his abundant supply of sharp pencils.
We cannot be accused of lack of keenness, as our skipper is always off to Lang before daylight to examine the weather from all angles – has the two hours I.F. per month anything to do with this? And what else but our enthusiasm can have caused the flare path party to ask for danger money?
G
Since we last wrote, some changes have taken place in the Flight, notably:
P/O. Stevenson’s carrying the whip around for Chief Ledbrook, who is visiting happier hunting grounds.
P/O. Nairn is growing a moustache to confuse his pupils.
P/O. Jones became of age!
And P/O. Gerdes has become a total abstainer since becoming a victim of a savage attack by hordes of pink elephants.
Sergeant Evans was suddenly snatched from us and posted far away, together with Taff Bevan and Snag Allen. Although he Backbone of the Flight has gone, we hide our tears as best we can and carry on. At least we have now two vacant chairs, and can sleep in comparative peace. We take this opportunity of welcoming Sgt. Patton and AC.s Meara and Bellamy, and would like them to know that if things ever become complicated poison can be obtained from Watts at a cost of two cents.
On behalf of the ground crew we wish to thank Mr. Stevenson and the other instructors for kindly remembering them at Christmas, and can assure them that from now on their engines will fire on all cylinders.
LAC. Staines was so good in the Pantomime that we have asked him to put on a floor show in the instructors’ room. Corporal Bryan, with the kind permission of the boys, is doing his part; he has promised to swallow broken glass, followed by two pints of liquid cement.
Doctor Watkinson, having enjoyed a White Christmas, is now ready to resume his advice to those contemplating marriage. All such advice is free, and satisfaction cannot be guaranteed.
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A
Christmas fills the mind of everyone, and those not in the process of being blackmailed are busy blackmailing.
Here are some gems we have picked up whilst passing through Pete’s hangar:
“In only five days I spent $1.50. Expensive places, these farms!”
“I’ll send you a mink coat, several diamond rings, and a box of Kleenex.” (The Kleenex has arrived.)
“Remember the wizard blonde and that brunette, like Lamarr, and that redhead – gosh, that redhead!” Heard three carriages away on the train: “I don’t worry, I’ll be home by April!”
Enough of that! Let’s switch on the microphone concealed in the pupils’ room …
One of our pupils seems very fortunate in his allocation of instructors: it seems he struck a prima donna. When asked what his first experience of a Harvard was like, he replied: “Well, I wouldn’t say they were quiet, but what shook me was their vocal ability. I looked up to ask my instructor where the music came from over the inter-comm. but I decided against it when all I could see in the rear vision mirror was a set of gleaming teeth and a quivering moustache.”
We seem to be blessed with a brilliant pair of financiers amongst the “A” Flight ground crew; rumour has it that Birch and Love can turn a five dollar bill into a hundred quarters. We envy them.
They say our Ledbury is flying high these days. Perhaps those pyjamas have gone to his head.
Our ex-boy, Blondie, seems to have the real Service spirit, always opens his eyes at Reveille, picks up a paper, lights a cigarette, and lies back to reap the benefits of his early morning work. He must enjoy listening to the Australian vernacular, or perhaps he’s only young and wants to learn to swear.
Heard a Certain Sergeant talking about a Kiwi from Aotearoa. Seems this Kiwi took an unholy delight in demonstrating advanced aerobatics to a certain pupil of his who had been partaking of the holiday spirit. But why the blazes turn around and ask with a cynical smile “Did you like that last one?” You have to be polite in war time, more’s the pity.
They tell me the Calgary air is very bracing these days, and is an ideal place for war-weary tourists to regain their lost vitality. But the tourists we saw there the other day, the vitality they discovered didn’t leave them with that Vitamin A look. But is might have been Vitamin E …
It seems a certain Squad Commander was once a Navy man. But we don’t think it’s quite the thing to whistle “Anchors Aweigh” when he calls at 6 a.m. These “wallabies” certainly have queer habits.
We, the “boys,” and the Boss himself would like to take this opportunity of wishing one and all the very best of New Years.
Back to the old grind now? Let’s do that, eh?
F
Amid a fanfare of gosports in harmony, “F” Flight, No. 64 Course, passes from grim reality to colourful memory. When jet-propelled stratocraft are landing at Weyburn airport, senile greasemonkeys will foregather to relate how, back in ’42, they helped to pull the chocks away for the Flight that set up the all-time flying record. U/t riggers of future autogyro limousines will listen in awe to an octogenarian propswinger telling of how they set the night flying record at 41 S.F.T.S. Nor will the tale of E. and F Flights’ joint night-flying figures lose anything in the telling.
Hark ye, pupes of 1943, the times set up by the last of the 1942 courses …. (Deleted by censor).
Such an achievement can only be celebrated in one manner. To the accompaniment of the whirling drone of props in fully fine, a virgin aircraft, unsullied by pupes, was wheeled forth from the immediate reserve. Threefold D.I.s were scrupulously and ceremoniously performed by airmen with not less than two G.C. stripes each. A brave and selfless pilot stood forth to perform the ceremony. Amid much wailing and lamentation he took the p lane forth to Lang and dashed it headlong into the ground. A fitting dedication. The pieces were gathered and used as gremlin charms. (N.B. Courses to follow please note that this ceremony can only be performed by a ginger-headed airman.)
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But though the letters of loved ones flowed into the officers’ mess some days before the Wings Parade, members of the Flight feel they have failed lamentably. Despite all their efforts, P/O. Hopeful still tries to land his kite as though it were fitted with skis. Sergeant Netherlands’ acquaintance with accommodating duty pilots has Improved faster than his flying. P/O. Sedge still insists upon practising aerobatics long after the chequered flag goes up.
Stoogepilots Twister and Deadly were of course beyond hope when they came here, and it would take more than a hurricane to drag W/O. Blessemall from his bed before noon.
We have done our best, but there was too much for one course to do. Training the C.I. to lower the undercart and not the flaps is a job for future courses. To them we hand over the controls, in the earnest hope that they in their turn will leave their instructors a little better than they find them.
And so, with a flourish of chequered flags, the last of the 1942 courses passes on.
X
Its me agane, Joe. They avnt found im yet (Willy Prangit I mene.) The F.C. (see larst munth for wot that menes) cuddent tell yew ware e wos (Willy) on akownt of no wun to releave Im (the F.C.) on the Arty. He opes to ave is tail reddy by nex munths gofer.
December was wot they call Instrukters Paradice they rushed into the krew room shouting Bagzerclamp and Werzertee evry day and after droring lots to se hoo ad to bind the pupes spent the mornin playing poker. Of corse we ad to clene the kites long after every wun ad gorn. It’s the same the ole world over as they say. Cor thares that sarjint agane he binds us rigid orl day. “Yor kite as bin down 2 minits … The egzaminin officer wonts is nashin in arfanour” … “Wossermrrer wiv 72” … “Pushumin pushumout pushumin. “26 mister Ross sez …”
Why didn’t I join the army?
Appy noo yer.
Joe.
C
It is now two months since “C” Flight last contributed to these columns, but in a general glow of benevolence engendered by the prospect of five days buckshee leave, we are prompted to ask a few questions:
Which u/t always takes an unopened packet of English Players with his to Link?
Which instructors will become of age next month? And will they then really be allowed to go up without a pupe as a safety pilot?
If a u/t drops his pencil on a Cross Country, Willie slow roll to recover it?
Who caught the clock on Christmas Eve?
Does No. – always fly with a side panel off?
Is there a future in O.O. or is it just for old times sake?
There are a lot more things we want to know, but the train is due in any time now, so here we go.
Happy New Year, fellows!
E
We must apologise for missing out on last month’s Flight Notes. We hope the “Gopher” sales didn’t drop too badly.
Once more another course of dashing aviators has come and gone. The best of luck and Happy Landings to all of No. 64 Course!
Calling Cpl. Cooper, “D” Flight! Please send over your chief gremlin catcher. Two of your pets are tying knots in our aileron control cables.
Welcome to Cpl. Cocks, who has joined us from Majors. They say he went away at Christmas and came back with a cute bride. Congratulations, Cpl. And Mrs. Cocks, and Best Wishes from the Flight.
Congratulations to P/O. Riby on obtaining his commission.
Before we leave our crew room and go off on our New Yea’s grant, we cast an eye on the Serviceability Board. We are most surprised to see that all our aircraft are serviceable! This would call for investigation at any other time, but we’ve got to run like mad for that train, although it’s bound to be late.
22
[Page break]
B
After having disposed of No. 62 Course in the usual manner, we turned, not without a twinge of uneasiness (or was it remorse?) to the purveying of gen to No. 70 Course, who eventually took to the air after waiting nearly a week for the notorious Canadian winter to demonstrate to what lengths it would go in order to keep them on the ground. (“Oh, yes, in Canada there are 360 flying days each year.”)
Meanwhile Sgt. Dakeyne went into retirement, recovering from the mumps, going on sick leave, filling up clearance certificates, pushing out the boat, buying a uniform, and eventually emerged a Pilot Officer, complete with a lofty winter cap. He is now hovering uncertainly between Minneapolis, Weyburn, and Calgary, and is the recipient of our most sincere congratulations for having at last vacated the position of “Joe,” the occupation of which is now undisputed.
“The Boss’s” time is now taken up with trying to think of things to tell Cpl. Lambeth to invent, and with murmuring “What a beautiful chart; not a mark on it!” whereas P/O. Dixon is always as busy as anything, drawing, writing peremptory instructions, and contributing greatly to the growth of grey hair on Sgt. Tomes’ head by putting unserviceable any aeroplane he lays eyes on. Flight Sergeant Plummer gets so disturbed about it that he sometimes puts the other leg up on the table.
We have lost two of the ground crew, LAC. Mark and AC. Huck, due to sudden activity on board the Boat. While we are sorry to see them go, we cannot commiserate with them. We are more than envious.
Hitler has no advantages over Flying Wing Headquarters when it comes to New Orders. They are so prolific that P/O. Knowles takes them up and down the tow-line with him. He says they take his mind off things.
D
Great news! LAC. Birkhead has at last caught The Boat, after sweating on the top line for several months past. When the news was broken to him he sighed and said he didn’t want to go, and they had to escort him round the camp to make sure he got his clearance certificate signed.
We welcome to the Flight Cpl. Thompson. He takes the place of Cpl. Fearon, now thoroughly organised at Moose Jaw, to judge from recent reports.
Since one of our pupes, LAC. Marshall, won his boxing bout in the recent Boxing Tournament LAC. Steele has been fancying his chances as a professional. Thanks to the excellent advice of LAC. Morley, he can now beat up his own shadow.
F/O. Rutledge is getting rather worried over one of his pupes, tall, dark and handsome Romeo Marriott, who is now wandering around with a far-away look in those “come-hither” eyes of his. We wonder who it can be this time …?
The whole Flight Was amazed the other day at the sight of “Flash” Harris, told to deliver a message to F/O. Stephen. As the weather was cold, “Flash” quickened his step almost to running pace. Amid great applause from the lads he charged down the tarmac, past F/Lt. Martin, who was so surprised that he dropped his parachute, and at last reached the brave Sir Galahad of the skies. “Dual only, Sir!” he panted, and then turned around and thundered back into the hangar.
LAC. Horrocks claims the entire credit for this amazing occurrence. And we must agree that his cocoa is a most dangerous brew.
B.J.C.
You know, getting out this magazine is no picnic. If we print light stuff, people say we are silly.
If we don’t, they say we are too serious.
If we clip things from other magazines, we are too lazy to write ourselves.
If we don’t, we are too fond of our own stuff.
If we don’t print contributions, we don’t appreciate real genius.
If we do print them, the magazine is full of junk.
What would you do, chum?
23
[Page break]
WOPPORTUNISM
I have discovered a secret weapon. No, not that sort of Secret Weapon the Ground School instructors tell you is a deadly secret, and no telling tales out of School, yet which every magazine you read makes a point of revealing I full detail. No, my Secret Weapon is the fully aerobatic gopher.
In this game of Commish. Last week my Flight Commander taxied into the kite I was trying to start up. He didn’t noticeably damage it. There I was. And there was he. I knew he couldn’t make it, but he wasn’t going to call out a joe to yank his tail wheel round with a pupe as an audience. I felt a sudden push, and he swung gaily into position. That, he thought, was that.
And it very nearly was. But, my dear Sir, not quite. For there comes a day when the editor of any station magazine goes into a flat spin. That day is known to the initiated as the day of going to press. Pat him on the back and hand him a manuscript right then, and he’ll grab the vilest piece of blackmail as “copy.”
Now, then … Is it Commish? Or do I … ?
So much for the preamble. Did it ever occur to you to apply the gen that drops from the lips of that clan of paragons, the Wireless Ops, to wider spheres of experience? For instance, that preamble text-ending business …? Can’t you just heat those ex-brats beginning “Now, when you’ve been in the Service as long as I have …” Preamble. Just plain preamble. Ultimately you find they’ve about as much service (and a fellow who can find nothing more to boast about than the length of time he has been in the R.A.F. is nearer the lunatic asylum than those fellows who put on skates and “crack the whip” there) – about a much service, I say, as the fellow I met at Grove Court. He had just learned to say “brassed” with the correct slant, and was complaining bitterly of life in the R.A.F. I asked him how long he had been in. “All day!” he replied.
The Walrus and the Carpenter were walking to and fro’;
They binded rigidly to see such quantities of snow.
“If seven erks with seven brooms should sweep for half a year,
Do you suppose,” the Walrus said,
“They’d then please Sergeant Cur?”
“How the heck would I know …
And anyway, who cares,” said Chips, who always was a cantankerous old codger.
THERE [underlined] IS [/underlined] A “FUTURE” IN IT
At the Christmas dinner the Commanding Officer congratulated the Unit on the way in which everyone on the Station had worked together to make the Unit a happy one.
Here at Weyburn we have probably as full a program of recreational, social and entertainment events as any R.A.F. Station, but in most cases all the work is done by a handful of enthusiasts, who give up much more of their time and energy than we should reasonably expect of them.
It is very easy to criticise destructively, but destructive criticism is generally valueless. The only person qualified to engage in constructive criticism is the fellow who is good at that very job himself, or who at least has ideas which would be much more valuable if they were presented before the show or whatever it is which is being put on. There is no place at this Unit for the back seat driver.
Shall we see to it that during this second year of No. 41 each of us finds a job to do in which he really can play his part in promoting the happiness of his fellows. The Bands, the Concert Party, the Dramatic Society, the Male Chorus, and – yes, you guessed it! – this magazine, will be especially glad of your assistance.
The Flying Gopher is published on the 15th of each month by and for the entertainment of the personnel of No. 41 S.F.T.S. (R.A.F.) at Weyburn, Saskatchewan, Canada. Printed for the Publishers by the Weyburn Review.
24
[Page break]
state it reflects the sky-waves of H/F & M/F
[Underlined] SKIP distance [/underlined]
[Diagram]
No reception between attenuation of ground wave & return to earth of sky wave.
[Deleted Night [/deleted] wave for D/F is ground. Reflection no good. [Diagram]
347. P/O WATSON SELF 1 hr
1 AB 2 3 3m 4567 10 20 22
[Page break]
[Underlined] Frequency Grouping [/underlined]
M/F 1000 K/Cs to 3000 K/Cs
H/F 3000 K/Cs to 30,000 K/Cs
V/HF 30,000 K/Cs + over.
MF long ground wave for Direct communications + DF. [Diagram] Sky wave absorbed by heaviside
HF Shorter ground wave suitable for short distance D.F.
Long Distance on reflected sky wave heaviside layer. [Diagram]
VHF. Short, easily attenuated ground waves.
Sky wave. Due to high frequency penetrates heaviside layer does not return to earth.
[Underlined] Height of aircraft [/underlined]
Min height for D/F is 2000 ft.
[Underlined] Heaviside Layer [/underlined]
A layer of ionised air about 200 miles above earth’s surface.
In the daytime Heavyside layer is not very dense, with the result that it can absorb the sky waves of M/F & H/F At night time the layer descends & contracts & becomes denser. In this
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Flying Gopher January 1943
Description
An account of the resource
This edition covers an Editorial, poems, the padres notes, romantic fiction, a car chase in London, a list of expenditure of the station's social funds, recollections of flying in the Great War, Christmas stories, Officers Mess gossip, a story about the snow blower, Sergeants Mess stories, sports news, stories from the station Flight groups.
Additionally there are two handwritten pages of radio notes.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
41 SFTS Weyburn
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-01
Format
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25 printed sheets and two pages of handwritten notes
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MFordTA1585520-170411-15
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Saskatchewan--Weyburn
Saskatchewan
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-01
aircrew
arts and crafts
entertainment
gremlin
Harvard
love and romance
sport
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1213/16100/ERoseACWEdwardsMH410403.1.jpg
8697b8111f86e442b5d3989c4862e06a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Donaldson, David
David Donaldson
D Donaldson
Description
An account of the resource
309 Items and a sub-collection of 51 items. Concerns Royal Air Force career of Wing Commander David Donaldson DSO and bar, DFC. A pilot, he joined the Royal Air Force Reserve in 1934. Mobilized in 1939. he undertook tours on 149, 57 and 156 and 192 Squadrons. He was photographed by Cecil Beaton at RAF Mildenhall in 1941. Collection contains a large number of letters to and from family members, friends as well as Royal Air Force personnel. Also included are personal and service documents, and his logbooks. In addition, there are photographs of family, service personnel and aircraft. After the war he became a solicitor. The collection also contains an oral history interview with Frances Grundy, his daughter.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Anna Frances Grundy and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-02
2022-10-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Donaldson, D
Grundy, AF
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
FROM
THE BISHOP OF DOVER
ST MARTINS PRIORY,
CANTERBURY.
3rd April, 1941.
Dear Edwards,
Of course I would be delighted to take the wedding. Tell your daughter so with my love. I know you will give me what notice you can, and I shall look forward to coming.
I have for years made a rule, whenever I marry a couple, that I see them beforehand, take them through the marriage service, and rub in the implications of Christian marriage and the solemnity of the promises. I find it well worth doing because, quite apart from satisfying one's own conscience [inserted] that [/inserted] one is not allowing them to marry with their eyes shut, it also means that they understand the service when they get to it. But in this case I am sure I can leave all that to you. You can probably do it better than I can.
Yours sincerely,
[underlined] Alfred Dover [/underlined]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to M H Edwards from A C Rose
Description
An account of the resource
Letter to Joyce Donaldson's father, M H Edwards, on headed paper from the Bishop of Dover agreeing to take his daughter's wedding. Goes on to describe his rules for marrying a couple but agrees that he can leave that to M H Edwards in this case.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
A C W Rose
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-04-03
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ERoseACWEdwardsMH410403
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Kent
England--Canterbury
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-04-03
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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One-page typewritten letter
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Frances Grundy
love and romance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/641/32465/BSmithJSmithJv1.1.pdf
06d252abf25757870b967f73da7e1fc8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Jack
John George Smith
J G Smith
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, JG
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with John 'Jack' Smith (1921 -2019) and his memoirs. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 189 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by John Smith and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sparks in the air - Jack Smith's wartime story
Description
An account of the resource
Second version. Covers life before the war and volunteering for the RAF in August 1940. Continues with account of training as a wireless operator. Includes radio school crest and photograph of a Battle aircraft. Describes voyage from Liverpool via Cape Town then escorted by HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales to Bombay (Mumbai) and then onward to Basrah in Iraq. Eventually arrived at RAF Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates and describes life and work on this station. Describes medical issues and subsequent posting to RAF Habbaniya in Iraq. Goes on to describe journey back to England overland via Gaza, Cairo and Alexandria thence by ship. Continues aircrew training at RAF Madley and Llandwrog in Wales. Includes photographs of Proctor, Dominie and Anson. Describes crewing up and starting operations on Wellington aircraft. He continues with postings to heavy conversion units and Lancaster finishing school before joining 189 Squadron at RAF Fulbeck. Describes in detail operations from December 1944 to April 1945. Mentions repatriating prisoners of war and Cook's tour to see damage to German cities. Describes life after the war including his marriage. Includes photographs of Wellington. Stirling, night bombing, wedding and page from log book.
Creator
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A Gaunt
J Smith
Format
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Twenty-eight page printed document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BSmithJSmithJv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Spalding
England--Cheshire
England--Lancashire
England--Blackpool
England--Wiltshire
England--Liverpool
South Africa
South Africa--Cape Town
South Africa--Durban
India
India--Mumbai
Iraq
Iraq--Baṣrah
United Arab Emirates
Iraq--Ḥabbānīyah
Gaza Strip--Gaza
Egypt--Cairo
Egypt--Alexandria
England--Herefordshire
England--Northamptonshire
Wales--Gwynedd
England--Nottinghamshire
Germany
Germany--Heilbronn
Germany--Giessen (Hesse)
Poland
Poland--Gdynia
Belgium
Belgium--Houffalize
Germany--Wolfsburg (Lower Saxony)
France
France--Royan
Czech Republic
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Dortmund
Atlantic Ocean--Oslofjorden
Germany--Würzburg
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Nordhausen (Thuringia)
Belgium--Brussels
Germany--Flensburg
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Scotland--Moray
Egypt
Gaza Strip
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Czech Republic--Most
United Arab Emirates--Shāriqah (Emirate)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1937
1940-09
1940-11-04
1941-03
1941-08-31
1943-02
1944-04
1944-06-12
1944-08-24
1944-11-09
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-19
1944-12
1944-12-30
1945-01-01
1945-01-04
1945-01-16
1945-01-13
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-07
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
1945-02-20
1945-02-23
1945-03-14
1945-03-16
1945-03-20
1945-03-23
1945-04-03
1945-04-23
1945-05-06
1945-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
1661 HCU
17 OTU
189 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
Battle
Blenheim
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
Cook’s tour
crewing up
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
love and romance
military living conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Bramcote
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Fulbeck
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Madley
RAF Milltown
RAF Padgate
RAF Silverstone
RAF Syerston
RAF Turweston
RAF Winthorpe
RAF Woodbridge
recruitment
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/548/18509/BLeedhamALeedhamAv10001.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/548/18509/BLeedhamALeedhamAv10002.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/548/18509/BLeedhamALeedhamAv10003.1.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leedham, Alma
Alma Lucy Muriel Leedham
A L M Leedham
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Leedham, A
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Alma Lucy Muriel Leedham (1922 - 2020, 455833 Royal Air Force), memoirs of herself and her husband Warrant Officer Terence Leedham an armourer who also served on a number of bomber command stations. She served as a driver in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force stationed at RAF Scampton and East Kirkby.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alma Leedham and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-14
2017-05-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Alma Leedham
I was born in Fulham, London on 26th June 1922. I am now 91 years old and trying to put into words some of the things that have happened during the years so far. I had no sisters and just one brother. Graham was two years younger than me and from the age of 6ys I was made responsible for his safety. London was a wonderful place in those days. We were allowed to wander off and visit Museums and anything that was ‘Free of charge’.
.We [sic] learnt to swim in the Thames and were constantly going over the bridge into Putney for the start of the Oxford & Cambridge boat race each year. When I was 11 years old the family moved to Kingston-on-Thames. Because I had been run over by a car when I was 9yrs old I did not go to school for several weeks (in those days it was not considered important for a girl to do well at school – she would grow up and get married). I was just 14yrs and 1 month when I left school and got a job as an apprentice dressmaker. I made tea, washed up and went out to buy buns for the ladies tea break during which time, I also had to take material to another shop where buttons and belt buckles were made to order. I was there for about 6 weeks, earning 5 shillings per week and I got the sack for sliding down the banisters.of [sic] the 3 storey workshop. Apart from getting another job on the way home, not a lot happened until War was declared in September 1939. By then I was 17yrs of age and working as a Progress Chaser at Hawker Aircraft where the Hurricanes were being built. I stayed with them until near the end of 1941 when I decided to join the RAF
Learning to drive at Blackpool was not easy. There were 3 girls to each car and, when 4 of our ”Teachers” were picked up on a smash-and-grab raid by the Police, we had to start from “scratch” in North Wales which, at that time of year, was really beautiful with all the many rhodedendrons [sic] in full bloom. Three weeks on cars followed by another 3 weeks on lorries found most of us having passed all tests. Our half days were spent on classroom work where we learnt all about what went on under the bonnet
Early in June 1942 I was posted to RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire where as WAAFs we were billeted in what had been originally, the married quarters. There were 3 of us to a room. Kath Williams (known as Bill), Vivian Winsome and myself. I think there were at least two more girls in the upstairs bedroom. (I little knew then that my second daughter would be born in the same house, No 18,. Some years later) Of course we only used the house for sleeping and our meals were served in the main cookhouse which also served as a cinema in the evenings. Driving all types of vehicles and meeting all sorts of people was soon part of the daily round. At that time Squadrons using the 4 hangers were 83 Sqdn who were in the process of changing from Wellingtons to Lancasters and 49 Sqdn who were flying Manchesters. Manchesters only had 2 engines and so, apparently, were not able to travel the required distances to Germany and were taken out of use. 83 Sqdn had been posted down south where I think they became part of the Pathfinders and, 57 Sqdn from Feltwell in Norfolk arrived as their replacement. It was then that I was transferred from a general driver in the MT Service area to 57 Sqdn as a tractor driver; taking the bombs from the Bomb Dump to the kites (as the planes were called in those days).. My house mate, Vivian, worked in the Bomb Dump and each morning she would have 6 bombed up trolleys (2 bomb loads) ready for me to take to the aircraft that would
[page break]
Be flying that night and I would leave for the dispersal points where the armourers would be waiting to take one 4,000 bomb and 2 loads of incendiaries for each aircraft. I soon got to know quite a few of the Ground Crews and to cut a long story short, among them was the man who was destined to become my future husband. Lofty Leedham (he was 6’2”) as he was known then was a Flight Sergeant in charge of the guns and turrets and the men who worked on them. Our boss was Warrant Officer Cook but, to tell you about him would make my story a great deal longer. It was quite a while before I discovered that Lofty’s Christian name was Terry. Our first date was on 6/06/43 and early in July Terry came down to Kingston-on-Thames to meet my Mum & Dad. In the August, only a month later 57 Sqdn was moved to East Kirkby where A Flight of 57 became part of the newly formed 630 Sqdn. We got married on 12th September from my parents home in Kingston-upon-Thames. Due to “rationing” and a shortage of everything, our wedding took place with me wearing a borrowed wedding dress but, we did manage with the help of neighbours, who gave us their food coupons, to have a small Wedding cake. Because the arrangements we had made for our honeymoon collapsed, we spent the next week living with my parents and going to London most evenings to see some of the shows. We did manage to see the Beverly Sisters and Danny Kaye before going back to East Kirkby where arrangements had been made for us to live “Off Camp”. the farm/pub where we slept was homely and was also very handy, as the bottom end of the farm was the boundary of the RAF perimeter and it was just a case of lifting our bikes over the railing and cycling round the Airfield to where we worked. It was then that I was put on night duty, so we were almost just passing each other, either to go to work or to come home each morning and evening. But that didn’t last for long when the discovery that I was !expecting! got me sent home to Mum & Dad. So I was no longer a member of the RAF. When in August of the following year our first daughter, Lesley, was born, we managed to find ‘Living Out’ accommodation in Lincoln which was some way from being ideal. Being back at RAF Scampton was like going home for us. We eventually were given the opportunity to taking over one of the Married Quarters with the provision that we clean it up and make it liveable. That was when we moved into No 18. and where our second daughter, Valerie was born, almost exactly 2 years after Lesley. (just 4 days difference). This was quite soon after we had found a nine month flatcoat (like a golden retriever only black). We called him “N*****” after Guy Gibson’s dog. He was a birthday present for Lesley. In those days we didn’t have much money so we were very pleased when the local butcher gave him to us. His history was that he had been bought by a couple for their son who had unfortunately been killed in Germany and they were unwilling to keep the dog. N***** spent many years with us but there were times when we had to leave him with my parents. For instance, when Terry was posted to the middle East and Singapore. I often had to wait a long time for a married quarter to become available but when I was able to take the girls to where ever Terry was serving I had to leave N***** with my family and go. . . N***** was always so pleased to see us each time we came home. The years passed and when we were living near Salisbury and the girls were starting to go to school there were no married quarters available, so we bought a caravan and got permission to live in the grounds of the nearby School of Chemical Warfare where Terry was in charge of “Working with Chemicals” . . Soon after we moved into the married quarter. I discovered that I was expecting another baby who arrived in the January and was our son, Richard. We now had three Children. . The next posting was Singapore and
[page break]
I waited 15months [sic] before getting a trip on the Asturius, (troopship) with the girls to join him. . The Suez Canal was not available for us in those years so, a trip round the bottom end of Africa lengthened our journey to Singapore. Terry met the ship on the harbour and took us to our new home in Serangoon Valley. (All this was written some time ago and I am now trying to make some sort of finish. (Terry died 25years [sic] ago and my memory is not quite what it was . . . . I am now 93 years old. .
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Alma Leedham's memoir
Description
An account of the resource
Tells of early life in London, joining the Woman's Auxiliary Air Force in 1941 and training as a driver. Relates experiences at RAF Scampton and then with 57 Squadron as a tractor driver pulling bomb trolleys. Subsequently went to East Kirkby. Married Terence Leedham who was an armourer on 57 Squadron in late 1943. Left the Woman's Auxiliary Air Force on expecting her first child. Continues with family history at RAF Scampton and postings to the middle east and Singapore.
Creator
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A Leedham
Format
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Three page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BLeedhamALeedhamAv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Lincolnshire
England--Kingston upon Thames
England--Surrey
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-06
1942-09-12
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
49 Squadron
57 Squadron
630 Squadron
83 Squadron
animal
bomb dump
bomb trolley
ground personnel
Lancaster
love and romance
Manchester
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Scampton
service vehicle
tractor
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1011/11355/EElyHMacdonaldA430513-0001.2.jpg
7c1d3ee9220bf287064f6de421e660ec
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1011/11355/EElyHMacdonaldA430513-0002.2.jpg
acf928c936fe5bbecce792ca30d07324
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Staves, Malcom Ely
M E Staves
Description
An account of the resource
77 items. The collection concerns Flying Officer Malcom Staves (1924 - 2012, 1591418, 203137 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, items, documents, photographs, and training notebooks. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 207 Squadron. <br /><br />There is also a sub collection concerning Flight Lieutenant <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/1020">D A MacArthur.</a><br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Christina Chatwin and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Staves, ME
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
To the Officer in Charge
‘B’ Squadron
[underlined] 13/5/43 [/underlined]
Dear Sir.
[underlined] Re 1591418 AC.2 Staves M.E. Flight 15/96/B. [/underlined]
The a/n man is the only brother of my fiancée and as his father is deceased it is his mother’s ardent wish that he may be present at our wedding on May 22th [sic] to fulfil the all important ceremony of ‘giving the bride away’
I am not [deleted] converse [/deleted] [inserted] fully [/inserted] [deleted] of [/deleted] [inserted[] conversant with the regulations [/inserted] governing the question of leave in the R.A.F. but I should regard it as a great personal favour if you could see your way clear to allow Malcolm to be present.
Thank you.
Yours sincerely
A Macdonald
Capt. A. D. [one indecipherable word]
[page break]
[wedding invitation]
Mrs. Staves
requests the pleasure of the company of
Mr & Mrs H. Ely
on the occasion of the Marriage of her daughter
Gwen to Capt. Archie MacDonald
at St. Mary’s Church, Cottingham,
on Saturday, 22nd May, 1943, at 2-30 p.m.
and afterwards at
The Berkeley Club, Cottingham.
5 Kingston Villas.
Northgate, Cottingham.
R.S.V.P.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Officer Commanding 'B' Squadron
Description
An account of the resource
A letter from Captain A Macdonald to Officer in Charge, 'B' Squadron, asking permission for Malcolm Staves to attend the wedding of the writer to Malcolm's sister. Also attached is the wedding invitation to Mr and Mrs Ely on the occasion of the marriage of their daughter, Gwen to Archie Mac Donald.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
A Macdonald
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-05-13
Format
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One handwritten letter
One printed invitation
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
EElyHMacdonaldA430513-0001,
EElyHMacdonaldA430513-0002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cottingham (East Riding of Yorkshire)
England--Yorkshire
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Alan Pinchbeck
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-05-22
aircrew
love and romance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/875/17105/BHollisANHollisANv1.2.pdf
a070b81c7aaffa390a66bba596e34d7c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hollis, Arthur
Arthur Norman Hollis
A N Hollis
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. The collection concerns Arthur Hollis (b. 1922) who joined the RAF in 1940 and after training completed a tour on 50 Squadron before becoming an instructor. At the end of the war he was deployed as part of Tiger Force. Collection contains a biography and memoir, his logbook, correspondence, training records, photographs of people, aircraft and places, his medals and flying jacket. It includes an oral history interview with his son, Richard Hollis.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Richard Hollis and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hollis, AN
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
A Memoir
By
Arthur Hollis
[page break]
[photograph of Arthur Hollis]
[page break]
A Memoir by Arthur Hollis
I was born in Highgate, North London, on 11th August 1922. My parents who had married a year earlier had an apartment there.
In 1924 they moved into a new bungalow near Hornchurch in Essex. It was all very rural then. We had gas for lighting and mainly coal for heating but no electricity. A special treat for me was to be taken down the lane to a forge to watch the horses being shod. At the age of four or thereabouts I was sent to a local "dames" school. It was mainly girls but there were a few boys. I didn't like it as the boys were not particularly favoured. I did have one little girl friend, Tina Branston. We were inseparable for years - in fact until my parents moved from the area around my eighth birthday. Tina was the penultimate child of a large family; the eldest was 22 years old and taught at the school. I was reproved by my mother for calling her "Christine" as, of course, all her family did. I was told very firmly "Miss Branston to you". Such were the manners of those days. Tina and I did have a favourite pastime which was to get into the long grass to explore in detail the differences between boys and girls. I thus had a very good early education between the ages of 6 and 7. I could also read, write and recite the multiplication tables up to number 12.
Events which took place during our stay in Hornchurch were the births of my brother Gerald and sister Rosemary. On each occasion I was sent off to Dover to stay with Grandpa Leigh (mother's father) and Aunt Mary who house kept for him. I loved my stays there in an old house in the lovely old town it was then and I was "spoilt rotten"
A great day at Hornchurch was when my mother was given a wireless - an old set which was operated by batteries. In the evenings we used to sit "listening in" with headphones over our ears.
As I have already recalled during the summer of 1930 my parents decided to move. The Ford motor factory had just come to Dagenham and the whole area was changing. They bought a house in Carshalton Surrey. The move took place during August. My parents chose a school for me to go to, more on the basis that I could walk there taking Gerald with me than for its academic attractions. It was an awful place and taught me very little. Anyway in the course of events I would have moved to a local secondary school at the age of 9 or 10.
My principal activity outside school was in the Cubs. By the time I left, when I went to Dulwich, I was a Sixer (platoon sergeant) with an arm full of badges indicating my ability to boil an egg or sew on a button or swim a length.
As mentioned later I was at the age of 8 in hospital for a mastoid operation. Shortly after discharge I was back in hospital again for a few days having gashed my leg very badly while riding another boy's bicycle. My parents thought things might be safer were I to have my own bicycle. For my 9th birthday I was taken to the then cycle manufacturer James and Co. in Holborn and bought a simple bicycle. This made a huge difference to my life. Apart from a few main roads which were taboo, I was free to cycle all over the district and beyond. It gave a great sense of freedom. Before my 12th birthday the bicycle was passed to Gerald and I was given a larger machine - a Raleigh with hub brakes and a three speed gear - a veritable Rolls Royce. For years thereafter Rodney Dove and I used to cycle frequently together all over Surrey and on some days would get to the south coast and back. When I was about 14½ years old I cycled alone down to Dover to stay with Grandpa Leigh. It was useful to have a bicycle there as another school friend (one "Clod" Jarvis) was in the Dover district at the same time
[page break]
and we were able to spend time together. I have used the word "Clod" as that was his nickname. He went to Rhodesia after leaving school and we wrote to each other rather infrequently. I found it difficult to write to an elderly gentleman as "My dear Clod" but I found out only from his widow that his name was Alan.
In 1932 my mother received a legacy from the estate of a widower uncle, Harry Webb, which amounted to about £2000. This gave my parents the background capital which was a financial protection for them. The plans for me were that I was to go to Dulwich College at the age of 11. Shortly after my 10th birthday I sat the Entrance Exam but was found to be weak in all subjects. I was immediately removed from the awful school mentioned above and sent to Wallington High School as I was now deemed old enough to cycle or take a bus. I flourished there under the headmaster who was an excellent teacher and determined that I should pass the Dulwich Entrance Exam next summer. I responded well and happily worked hard for and passed the exam.
In September 1933 I started in the 2nd form at Dulwich. It was hard going. Most of my contemporaries were there on scholarships from the London, Surrey or Kent County Councils and were therefore a pretty bright bunch. I was rather idle for the first few terms and content to coast along halfway up the form. When my time came to go into the Upper 3rd I was put into "Treddy's" form. Mr Treadgold is a legend to many Old Alleynians as a very strict task master. Personally, I respected and liked him. Whether through fear or dislike of failure I soon learned that by working hard I could be amongst the first few in the form. This stood me in very good stead later on.
I have jumped about slightly and could have mentioned that in the summer term of 1935 I was persuaded by my great school friend Rodney Dove, who was a very good swimmer, that we should try for a quarter mile standard medal (under 10 minutes for a bronze and under 7½ mins for silver). We both got a bronze, I in 9 min 7 seconds and he in under 9 mins. Not bad as we were both about 13 years of age. Rodney was an exceptionally strong swimmer. This may have contributed some years on in 1942 to his being picked, as an RNVR sub lieutenant, to carry out the horrendous task of riding a "human torpedo" and putting an explosive charge under an Italian troop ship. He did this and received a well earned DSO but was a prisoner of war until 1945. He was also a good boxer and we used to box together a lot when we were about 11 or 12. I later went on to become the Dulwich Middleweight Champion in 1939.
My mother spoke fluent French having spent some months at the age of 16 living with a French family. Between the two wars my mother's married brothers, Norman and Jack, lived and worked in Paris. Both had French wives. My parents visited them for Easter 1936 and took me with them. I had a tourist's view of Paris. During September 1937 I was kindly allowed to visit them for a fortnight on my own and spent many hours in the International Exhibition then on there as well as wandering on foot around Paris and Versailles.
I tend to be rather cynical when I hear someone say ''the best days of my life were at school." My reply is apt to be ''what a dull life." Nevertheless I did enjoy my years at Dulwich. I had many friends, some of them lifelong I was very sad when in the spring of 1939 my father said "I think that you have achieved most worthwhile things at Dulwich. I think that you should leave now and I will help you to become a Chartered Accountant." He was probably right and I was grateful. I had sat under some excellent mentors. I had obtained credits in all subjects in school certificate. I had obtained rugger and boxing colours. I was a corporal in the OTC with Cert "A". I was Form Captain and had been so on previous occasions. There was not much more that mattered to do. The Master (i.e. the Headmaster) was rather upset at my going but that was natural.
[page break]
So in early May I reported to the offices of Legg and Smith Chartered Accountants in the City of London. There were about five other Articled Clerks several years older than I was. My immediate senior Donald Draper became a life long friend. As junior I was given only rather menial jobs to do and I was rather bored but when war broke out four months later the managing clerk and myself were the only staff left, all the others being mobilized in various territorial units. My Principal, J.F. Legg said to me "You have rather quick promotion. I will give you any help you need." I had eighteen months very hard but rewarding work ahead of me.
One could not have had a more excellent man to work for than J.F. Legg. He was a friend of my father, they both having been soldiers in the 1 st battalion of the London Rifle Brigade when it went to France in 1914.
Unfortunately during the May of 1940 I suffered a burst appendix and was in the War Memorial Hospital at Carshalton for some weeks. This was a very serious condition at that time as there were no antibiotics although I think I did have penicillin when I had rather a relapse after three weeks.
I had had a four week stay in the same hospital when I was 8 years old having a mastoid operation, again very serious. During my stay there I was very sad to be told that Tina Branston had died of meningitis. That, together with scarlet fever and TB, were killers of children on quite a large scale. I mention these rather grisly facts to record how medical science has made great strides during my lifetime.
As soon as I was well enough after discharge from hospital I joined the LDV (Local Defence Volunteers) when invasion by the Germans looked a probability. A parade looked like the Peasants' Revolt - no uniforms, no arms (apart from the odd shotgun or pitch fork). Afterwards as arms became available from the USA the Home Guard replaced the LDV. Although we all enjoy a good laugh at Dad's Army it was generally more efficient than that. There was not much time between the two wars. Men who had fought in the trenches were still only in their early forties; they could shoot fast and straight. There would have been a lot of dead Germans had invasion been attempted. I was made a corporal probably on the strength of having Cert A from the OTC. About this time I embarked upon my life of crime. I was cycling on Home Guard Duty without front or rear lights when a special constable loomed out of the blackout and charged me. I had to go before the local magistrate. I made an impassioned plea and thought I had won when he said "Very dangerous, Mr Hollis, pay ten shillings." A severe punishment - it was a week's allowance.
After my 18th birthday in August 1940 I felt eligible to join one of he [sic] services. Not the Army or the Navy as I was too young to be considered for combat duty and I decided therefore to go for pilot training in the RAF. I mentioned this to JF (as Legg was known). He was very sympathetic having himself risen to the rank of Lt. Col. in the 1914-18 war but he asked if I would defer for a few months to allow others to catch up with me for work in the firm. I agreed and volunteered my services to the RAF early in 1941.
The RAF had rather a bottleneck of potential pilots at that time and for a start I was sent on a 6 month course at Manchester University to study such subjects as higher mathematics, mechanics, meteorology, air navigation etc. I arrived at Hulme Hall, Manchester in early April 1941 and found myself with about 20 other RAF cadets. We were a happy bunch who helped each other along. Some were more advanced than others in various subjects. I do remember our being always hungry. Although the food in Hulme Hall was well cooked and wholesome, the whole country was now severely rationed and we were very lacking in meat and fats. We used
[page break]
to meet in each others rooms of an evening and make toast; a small amount of butter and plenty of jam was produced.
After leave in September we were ranked as LACs with white flashes in our caps to indicate air crew in training and mustered for a sea trip to the USA to be taught to fly. We sailed from Avonmouth at the beginning of November in a 7000 ton ship which in previous days had done the New Zealand meat voyages. We were now the carcasses. The North Atlantic in November is a cruel place. We had an escort of naval corvettes for the first part of the voyage but one could seldom see them as the poor devils spent much of their time half under water. We were in hammocks close slung together and as most people were sick, the nights were very unpleasant. I volunteered to fetch food from the kitchen to mess table, partly because I was the only one interested in eating anything and the kitchen was warm and fairly close to the centre of the ship thus having the least movement. It was a great relief to reach Halifax, Nova Scotia. I shall always remember that first breakfast on shore. Plenty of eggs and bacon etc. etc.- things then unknown in the shortages of the UK. Life was not very comfortable in this staging station where we stayed for three weeks. It was December, the outside temperature was -20c., the huts were grossly overheated by primitive coal stoves and the latrines outside in the open air were very primitive.
After about three weeks we boarded the first of several trains on our journey to Florida. A most interesting journey. In three days we passed from the snow covered land of eastern Canada to the semi-tropical atmosphere of Florida.
The RAF station of modem comfortable huts around a parade ground and a swimming pool was just south of Lake Okeechobee (Fort Myers 70 miles west on the Gulf of Mexico, Miami 100 miles south east on the Atlantic). After the sun went down the insects on the screens to our living quarters had to be seen to be believed. Four engined mosquitoes. We slept under nets. The station was run by three RAF officers. The flying and ground instructors were American civilians. The flying instructors were good, the ground instructors were useless. If we were to pass the written wings exam we should need to study our manuals very resolutely.
After a day or so of settling in, we were paraded and inspected by the CO Wing Commander Kenneth Rampling. He appointed me as Course Commander. I was made an acting corporal (unpaid) and had general responsibility for the behaviour of the Flight (about 50 cadets). There were four Flights in the school at one time. As one passed out another one arrived. We trained on the PT 17 which was the primary trainer of the US Army Air Corps - like a Tiger Moth but rather more solid. After about eight hours in the air, most of us went solo. Thereafter the training continued until the mid-term ten days leave. People went various ways. Some adventurous chaps got as far north as New York. I preferred to stay with a couple of fellow cadets, Peter Cowell and "Flossie" Redman on the Gulf of Mexico coast. We ended up at the home of three elderly ladies who had befriended us. I have since renamed them "The Golden Girls". I have also since been told that one of them took "a particular shine to me". - the opportunities one misses in life!
After leave we went onto the Vultee BT13A - a monoplane, and after a further short leave, onto the Harvard, at that time the fighter aircraft of the Army Air Corps - just as well they didn't have to fight the Battle of Britain although the Harvard was a very nice aircraft to fly. At the end of that course we took the Wings exam and qualified. On the evening before the Wings Parade I, together with my two section leaders, was invited by the three officers to a celebration at the Clewiston Inn where they stayed. What a night. I arrived back at camp wearing the C.O.'s trousers, mine having got wet in a rainstorm. The next morning the Flight was drawn up on parade and I marched up to Kenneth Rampling to report "all present and
[page break]
correct. Sir." He said "Christ you look 'orrible" to which I replied "not 'alf as 'orrible as I feel". Just as well the doting onlookers could not hear these remarks. Dear Kenneth Rampling; he was killed two years later as Group Captain DSO DFC. CO of a Pathfinder Squadron.
We were at that time officially sergeants although a number of us were expecting to be commissioned officers once we got to Canada. We set off on an evening train. After three days of various stops and changes, including several hours in New York, we arrived at Moncton, New Brunswick, from where we had set off the previous winter.
Life was better. I was now a Pilot Officer. I met up again with other friends of the horrible voyage out. They were now fellow officers, some of them destined for distinction such as Bill Reid V.C.
After several weeks wait at Moncton, we boarded a train for New York where we went aboard the Aorangi, the ship which was to take us back to UK. This had a maximum speed of about 15 knots. I have since learned that it was the worst month of U Boat sinkings. We were nevertheless oblivious of this and had a happy voyage. As we neared UK shores the Americans on board, feeling that they were entering a war zone, mounted machine guns around the deck rails. After they had nearly shot down a Spitfire, which was foolish enough to come too close, we RAF officers were detailed to stand by the guns telling them when not to open fire.
We landed at Greenock, the port of Glasgow, and boarded a special train which took us all the way to Bournemouth where we spent two or three weeks getting uniforms, having medical and dental checks, several days leave etc.
I was then posted to Little Rissington in the Cotswolds to fly Oxfords, twin engined machines, so as to practice map reading (much more difficult than in USA) and to prepare for the larger machines of Bomber Command. After several weeks I was posted to a Wellington OTU at North Luffenham, Rutlandshire where I crewed up with FO Dick Palmer (navigator), Sgts Ted Kemp (bomb aimer), Tom Cheshire (wireless operator) and "Jock" Walker (rear gunner). We started working together on cross country flights, range bombing etc. It was all rather dangerous; a number did not finish the course. When we stepped out at night there was generally a blaze indicating that Cottesmore, our neighbouring station, was flying. As opposed to the Wellington Mark Ills which we had, they had only MKICs which I had later to discover by experience were underpowered. I had one or two near scrapes. I was a pupil one night with others when the aircraft flown by another pupil went out of control. It was righted by the instructor who then "bailed out" the remainder of the personnel. I had my parachute incorrectly fastened so that when I jumped the harness would have gone straight up over my head. Fortunately it caught on the edge of my flying jacket, giving me just enough time to grab hold of it so that I could come down holding it by hand and I slipped it off on landing. As I lay on the ground sweating somewhat, although it was a cold dark December evening, I heard a voice "Don't shoot Dad ! It may be one of ours". I yelled "Don't shoot I am one of yours!" Soon afterwards I was before the fire of a Fenland labourer's cottage being restored with cups of tea. I should have liked something somewhat stronger! Soon I was pleased to learn that all had landed safely. I still have the flying jacket with the small tear in it that saved my life.
The last exercise at the OTU was to fly over enemy territory. I set out with three other aircraft to drop leaflets over Nancy one night. There was a massive cold front over the English Channel with dangerous cumulonimbus clouds. Two older more experienced pilots turned back. I pressed on but as there are dramatic wind changes on the other side of a cold front, it is unlikely that our leaflets went anywhere near Nancy. After a rather eventful return I landed at base. The fourth aircraft was missing. I will just elaborate on the words "eventful return". The whole of our journey there and back over France was over cloud. When I judged on our return
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journey that we had reached the English Channel or the low lying land over northern France I ventured to break cloud. I was then able to see what I thought to be the Cherbourg Peninsular. It was in fact the English coast, probably near the Isle of Wight. Feeling now completely lost I called May Day (the SOS signal). Immediately what appeared to be every searchlight in England lit up and waved me towards North Luffenham. I was so impressed that I forgot to cancel "May Day". I duly landed to be met by a very irate Wing Commander (Chief Flying Instructor).
We next moved on to Swinderby, Lincolnshire to convert on to Lancasters. There I collected two more crew, Sgts Bob Yates (mid upper gunner) and Don Adshead (flight engineer). The only incident there was a fire in an engine on a night cross country flight. The curious thing was that there were no visible signs although the engine was burnt out. Another lucky escape.
On finishing the conversion course we were posted to 50 Squadron at Skellingthorpe, very close to Lincoln.
I have heard since the war from Tom Cheshire (wireless operator) and quite recently from Bob Yates (mid upper gunner). Both son with wife and grandson of Bob Yates have been to Westwell to see me. Letters are in my Log Book.
Our tour of operations was mainly spent in what was afterwards known as the Battle of the Ruhr.
The Ruhr area, although separate towns, constituted the German industrial area and was therefore very heavily defended. Its one consolation to us was that it was reasonably near (large bomb load, small fuel load). I hated the place. Late in our tour I was badly shot up over Essen, the main town. This is recorded in the citation for my DFC and written up in the Daily Telegraph. I'm told that it is also on the internet. Earlier in the tour I had about six feet of wing cut off over the Dutch coast and had to make my only early return. In order to achieve the maximum concentration of aircraft over the target, the practice was to congregate together over the Dutch coast and then move on to enemy territory. As it was very dangerous from the collision point of view to have so many aircraft circling around, the instruction was if one was early to do a "dog leg" so as to arrive at the rendezvous at exactly the right time but not before. One aircraft, I think flown by a Wing Commander no less, did not follow the instruction to "dog leg" but was circling with disastrous results for my wing and our morale. I could just about hold the aircraft in the air back to base.
We also carried out raids on the U boat pens at St Nazaire (rather useless as the concrete was too strong for the bombs then carried), Berlin, Pilzen, Hamburg etc. An interesting trip was with a special force chosen to bomb Friedrichshafen where special radar spare parts were stored. As it was then mid-summer, there was not enough darkness to return to the UK. We therefore went on over the Med to North Africa. The personal map which I marked up and tucked into my flying boot is in my log book.
The last trip of my tour was to Milan. Italian targets were regarded as fairly soft. My usual aircraft was pronounced unserviceable rather late in the day. Group Captain Elworthy. (later Marshal of the RAF Lord Elworthy) the then Base Commander was very anxious that I should finish on this trip. He therefore arranged for an aircraft at another Station to be available and took me personally in his staff car to that Station .. My crew were taken there by bus. There was at that time an accusation going around that crews were bombing short. I maintained that the aircraft cameras which were meant to record where the bombs landed were wrongly set. I therefore arranged with Ted Kemp that when the target came into his bomb sight he would give me a sign. I would count to ten and then call Bomb. We brought back an aiming point photograph. Many years later Bun and I were lunching with some Italian friends in Milan.
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After lunch we were taken for a walk and visited a rather ruined church which had been bombed in August 1943. An important feature which was being repaired consisted of a mural of The Last Supper by Leonardo da Vinci. As we were going home, I said to Bun "Guess who destroyed the Last Supper?" Shortly after August 1943, the Italians withdrew from the war. I think that the destruction of a religious artefact was too much for them! I recently told the story to an artist friend who remarked dryly that the bomb damage was not half as serious as the damage inflicted by the subsequent garish and overdone restoration.
I was then posted for instructor's duties to an OTU at Westcott, Bucks. I felt it was rather like leaving the Brigade of Guards for the Ordnance Corps but there was no choice. Most of the instructors were New Zealanders - a very jolly bunch of chaps. My immediate senior and Flight Commander was one Squadron Leader Fraser Barron DSO DFC DCM., a New Zealander.
He ranked at the age of 21 as a Pathfinder ace and was killed next year as a Group Captain, the immediate successor to Kenneth Rampling mentioned earlier in this narrative.
I also mentioned earlier the underpowered Wellington Ic. Westcott and its satellite station Oakley had Ics. I was sitting one night in the instructor's seat next to an Australian pupil pilot who was doing a cross country exercise. On returning he made rather a mess of the landing approach and I said "Go round again." Immediately ahead of the main runway at Oakley was Brill Hill. Good pilots could clear it easily but my pupil was not in that category. After looking up at the trees as we went over Brill Hill I let him have another attempt at landing. He did the same thing again, after which I said "Up to 3000 ft and we will change seats". The aircraft used for cross country flying at Oakley had no duel controls.
The autumn and winter continued. During March 1944 I had a message that my dear mother needed a surgical operation for kidney disease. I got compassionate leave and spent a week visiting her and we had nice talks. Alas, the other kidney, which had been expected to pick up and do the work of two, did not do so. She died within a few days. It was a severe blow to the family and her many friends as she was much respected and loved.
In the late spring of that year I had the great good fortune to meet Betty Edmunds, one of the staff in the watch tower at Oakley. I was OC night flying at the time. We soon discovered that we both came from Carshalton and had many mutual friends. Our friendship developed. We used to play tennis together. She always won. Partly because she was a much better player than I but also because whenever she bent over to pick up a ball I was completely unnerved and my mind was not on tennis. On her days off, if I was on leave, we met for a day in London. We also visited Cambridge on one or two occasions to see my brother Gerald who was spending two terms at Jesus College prior to National Service. In early September we got engaged. I said at the time " I suppose we ought to wait until the end of the war to get married.". She said" Oh do you? I was thinking about this coming 2nd December". And thus it was. We had a very quiet wedding as most young people were away on active service and anyway catering was very difficult to arrange. But it was a very happy day and we set off by train for honeymoon in Torquay.
We already knew that we both wanted children. Betty wanted four. I thought this might be rather too many to educate properly. Thinking about things over the years and knowing my darling Betty's quiet way of getting what she wanted, I think she had made up her mind to start our family on her honeymoon. I had no hesitation in helping.
After returning to duty, we used to cycle into Thame to spend the night at a hotel. This is rather an exaggeration; they were mainly rooms over bars in pubs. The beds were generally
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rather primitive and rattled terribly. I often wondered why the bar conversation would suddenly cease. We spent Christmas with Betty's parents at The Bull in Aylesbury.
At New Year there was an officers' dance at Oakley. As Betty was only a Sergeant she had to get her CO's permission to attend. This was refused. My fellow officers were most indignant that the Oxford ''tarts" were likely to be there but an officer's wife was refused. I didn't particularly mind as the signs were that Betty was pregnant and would therefore automatically leave the WAAF.
I have raced ahead and not mentioned that throughout our engagement we frequently spent nights with our friends Steve and Sylvia Hogben in their caravan. Betty slept on one of the narrow beds and I slept beside her on the floor. She had a firm intention, which I respected, of going to her wedding a virgin. I mention this as most young people these days would consider such conduct rather strange.
About two days into New Year I was telephoned by Group that I was promoted to Squadron Leader and was to command an instructor's flight at Turweston (Northants) satellite of Silverstone (now a racing track). I had 2 months earlier been categorised A2 by a visiting examiner from Central Flying School. An A2 instructor's category was rare and the highest one could obtain in wartime. At about the same time Betty was posted to Upper Heyford. Still in the same Group but quite far apart. Anyway news reached me that Betty was in hospital at Stoke Mandeville. She was suffering from the family weakness of cystitis which combined with the pregnancy and being generally run down made her quite unfit for RAF duty. After about a fortnight she returned to Upper Heyford to be discharged from service. I had previously phoned up the senior medical officer at Upper Heyford, explained the situation and told him rather emphatically that I didn't want her having to wander round the Station getting clearance chits which was the usual procedure. She told me afterwards that she got out remarkably quickly. She went to stay with her parents. Meanwhile I was searching for somewhere near Turweston for us to live together. A hard task. Any sort of accommodation was very difficult to find. Fortunately a Flight Lieutenant was posted and offered me his billet which consisted of 2 rooms with facilities in a council house in Brackley.
The tenants of the council house, Mr and Mrs Blackwell, made us very welcome and were pleased to accept some rent. I had at that time Sue, a miniature bull terrier bitch, a 21st birthday present from cousins Harold and Vi Fuller-Clark. When I was posted overseas as I later record, I was in some quandary as to what to do with Sue. Betty and I decided that we would give her to the Blackwells. They were delighted to have her and gave her a very happy life. Nearly every Christmas thereafter we were sent a photograph of Mrs. Blackwell with Sue. There was a strong resemblance but Mrs Blackwell was always the one wearing the hat.
After only four happy months at Turweston I was telephoned by Group to say that that I was posted as a staff officer to the advance party of Tiger Force then being formed to set up a Bomber Command on Okinawa. I was to proceed as quickly as possible to the assembly point which was a dreary RAF equipment storage station in Staffordshire. Having said a profoundly sad farewell to my beloved pregnant wife I proceeded there on VE day. The saddest day of my life as there was a strong risk that we would not see each other again. Events changed that somewhat as it became apparent that British Forces were not wanted in the Pacific by the Americans although Winston C was determined that we should go. I had a series of embarkation leaves and I finally sailed during early July.
During our stay at Turweston I was sent for a month to the Advanced Administration Course at Hereford. Betty came to visit me over a long week-end. We attended the Easter Sunday service
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at Hereford Cathedral. I was informed during the service that "the Widger'' (later named Jennifer) had quickened. I don't whether anything is to be read into that.
The ship that was to take me to Okinawa was the "Empress of Australia", a 25000 ton ship with four funnels. It had been the Kaiser's yacht (quite a yacht) until it was taken over by the British in 1919. Apparently our route was to be across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal across the Pacific and then on to Okinawa. We set forth from Liverpool.
The weather got warmer and warmer. As we neared the West indies we were amused by dolphins playing alongside in the bow wave. A wait for a day or so in the mouth of the canal and we then had the wonderful experience of passing through it. Fabulous locks and tropical birds of many colours flying alongside. For about two weeks we crossed the Pacific to Hawaii where we docked and were allowed shore visits over two or three days. Wonderful swimming and we were well entertained by the local residents. I was flirted with and mildly seduced by a beautiful young woman in the presence of her husband and boyfriend. I should put it the other way round as the boyfriend was clearly the favoured one. How one envied him.
While we were in Hawaii the atom bomb was dropped. I remember the mixed feelings with which I discussed the situation with my fellow officers. We were horrified that science had reached this far but grateful that our lives and probably about two million others had been saved.
What was to be done with us? There was a shipful [sic] of about 3000 craftsmen, builders, medical units, air sea rescue units etc. Surely we must be useful somewhere. After a certain amount of cruising around with a shore stop at the Admiralty Islands we went through a formidable storm to Hong Kong.
At Hawaii something must have got into the ship's drinking water. The whole ship's company was smitten with sickness and nausea. I went round to see the senior medical officer and said "Can't you do something?" He replied "Hollis, old boy, you'd better have some of my pink stuff-this is what I am giving out today but it won't do you any good."
We docked in Hong Kong a day or so after the British Pacific Fleet. They were very pleased to see us. They had declared martial law and were trying to stop the Chinese from looting the place. Headquarters had been set up in the Peninsular Hotel on the mainland side of Hong Kong. The original colony is on Victoria Island reached by Ferry. I had an office on the ground floor of the Peninsular Hotel. It was a cross between an information centre and a command post. I had a constant queue of ex civilian internees wanting a passage back to UK, Australia etc. , Japanese officers fully armed who with their discipline were being sent for guard duties etc etc. I scarcely slept for several days and was somewhat hungry as we had given up our rations to the ex occupants of the internment camps. The Japanese were later used for hard work in repairing the colony. They lived in POW camps and were not overfed.
After about a fortnight things became rather more normal. Marine Commandos arrived from Burma as did elderly colonial administrators from UK, the latter dressed in Colonel's uniform straight from Moss Bros. And I moved over to a newly formed RAF Headquarters on Victoria Island which at that time had a small provincial town atmosphere. There was Government House, the Cathedral, the cricket pitch and, of course, the statue of Queen Victoria and, about two miles away, the race course. At about this time I had word from the UK that I had a baby daughter and that Betty and she were both well. I think that a signal had been most kindly arranged by my father-in-law, Chase Edmunds, who had important contacts in maritime circles.
The air journey Hong Kong/UK was six days. One went by Dakota. The route leaving Hong Kong was Kung Ming then "over the hump" to Karachi -Aden-Cyprus-Rome-UK.
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Although distressed to be deprived of my loved ones, one could not have been in a better place than Hong Kong at that time. The weather was perfect between the great heat of summer and the murkier weather of winter. In winter it does not get very cold.
Although we wore normal blue as opposed to tropical kit, I swam in the sea on New Year's day. I was alone. There were few non Chinese apart from the forces. We had all the transport. A jeep was always available to me. We virtually owned Hong Kong. As Org1 (as I was in RAF language) I was involved in accommodation for growing numbers of RAF personnel. This involved a small amount of requisitioning but I did this distasteful task with great sympathy towards the Chinese population , a number of whom became good friends. I was invited to dine on several occasions with one H.S. Mok who was a fellow Old Alleynian . I was also involved in conducting Courts of Enquiry on various matters. A difficult job as the Chinese coolie always gave as evidence any story that came into his head. I also sat on a number of Courts Martial, being sometimes president, During my stay in Hong Kong both brother Gerald and cousin Dan Hollis arrived at different times on HM ships. We were able to see quite a lot of each other.
I had earlier put my name down for a permanent commission in the RAF. After my marriage Bun and I decided that this was not a good idea and the intention was that I would revert to the original plan of being a Chartered Accountant. Bun sent me out some books and I started to study - not very hard as the social life was too good.
In July 1946 my turn came to be demobilised. I set course for home first by taking a passage in one of HM ships to Singapore. After a pleasant three weeks there I got a place on the Empress of Australia (by a strange coincidence) and set course for the UK. I arrived in Liverpool one wet afternoon. The ship's tannoy went requiring the presence of Squadron Leader Hollis in cabin X. I proceeded thence and was greeted by an Air Marshal who was there for the purpose of offering me a permanent commission. I have always been pleased that I didn't accept. There were severe service cuts a few years later and I have had an interesting life.
I arrived home to Carshalton Beeches where Betty and Jennifer were. My first memories of Jennifer were of a nappied bottom hastily disappearing under the bed - no doubt to avoid the strange man who had suddenly appeared ..
After a short holiday period I had to get down to work. The final exam to become a Chartered Accountant was a formidable hurdle. We had no home but were offered a flat in Dover. Betty and Jennifer lived there and I went there at week-ends. I spent the week getting more practical experience with Legg London (as my original firm had become) or staying with my father to study. I had the right atmosphere for this as my father liked silence. All very well but for poor Betty it was a lonely life. After some months we received an offer to share a house with some cousins of Betty in Westcliff-on-Sea in Essex. At least we could be together although we disliked the area.
In summer 1948 three events almost coincided: we moved into a flat in the Paragon Blackheath where we spent fifteen happy years, I passed the final exam and became a Chartered Accountant and Sylvia was conceived. Our joy at the last happening was tempered by the fact that Betty had five months of very intense pregnancy sickness. At about the end of this time she contracted measles. As a result Sylvia was born very prematurely and her life was only saved by being put into neat oxygen. It was discovered a short while later that neat oxygen destroyed the retinas of premature babies. Thereafter the oxygen was mixed with air but too late to avoid Sylvia's blindness.
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After some months I joined the firm of Hugh Limebeer as an assistant with partnership prospects. It was an interesting firm. After some weeks I was engaged on an audit in Paris and in the summer of 1950 I was asked to spend some months with a client in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. The British had been a powerful force in the Middle East until about that time; shortly after my visit it was to change. I flew first to Paris, thence to Cairo where I was well entertained by representatives of the client. Lunch at Shepherds, a visit to the Pyramids, then tea and dinner before I boarded an Aden Airways Dakota to Jeddah.
Jeddah was then a very primitive town. I felt myself back in the Old Testament. Through the initiative of the client I was visiting, ducts had been built to take water from mountains about 100 miles away into Jeddah. Prior to that the water supply had been by donkey cart. Non Saudis were allowed to have alcohol provided that this was kept strictly private. I arrived on a Thursday; there was a party that evening which was normal. It was a place for parties but one met always the same people. The next day, Friday, was the Sabbath and therefore a holiday.
The custom was for small parties to meet at lunchtime on the Sabbath and drink beer. I was taken to a party and amongst the guests was St John Philby, the famous Arabist and Muslim. This didn't stop him drinking a large quantity of beer before going off to say his prayers. During my three months there I attended a few Arab parties; one in the desert given by a prince who I think was Foreign Minister. They were deadly dull affairs. Refreshments normally tea and sweet cakes, no alcohol, no women.
When my time came to go back to UK I decided to travel by sea and land. I first flew across the Red Sea to Port Sudan and waited there for the British India ship which was expected to arrive that week. It did arrive on the Saturday and after I had returned on board hospitality to my friends there, we sailed. This B.I. line started in Mombasa and called at all the African ports up to the Suez Canal. Thence Marseille and the U.K. I intended to disembark at Marseille, take the Blue Train to Paris thence to U.K. This I did. The Med can be very unpleasant in February.
During my absence in Jeddah Betty had some gynaecological pains. She consulted the local expert Keith Vartan. He advised that all would be well if she had another child. So on my return we bore this in mind. After a few months she was again pregnant but had a miscarriage. We put things on the back burner for a few months. After starting again Richard was conceived. Betty had some hormone injection to prevent any miscarrying. Shortly after that she was smitten with polio in July 1952.
During the period after my return from Jeddah in February 1951 and July 1952 Betty and I were very occupied with the girls' education. Jennifer was doing very well amongst the juniors at Blackheath High School - that was normal - she was always a self starter. Our problem was helping Sylvia with her blindness. A very harrowing experience. How does one teach one who has never seen about colours? How does one answer the question "Shall I be able to see when I am ten?"
I had a very full Autumn 1952. Apart from daily visits to Betty in the Brook Hospital, Jennifer also had a spell in hospital. Sylvia was living with her Edmunds grandparents. A cheering note was when in November I was offered a partnership with Limebeer and Co. starting next 1st April.
Becoming a partner did not immediately change the work I was doing. One is for at least a year or so doing work and services for clients provided by others. I inherited from others work in Belgium and Germany. In doing some work for an Italian client I met William Middleton who was a Solicitor. He had an Italian mother and English father. He had been brought up in
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Rome and had law degrees from both Rome and London Universities. His English and Italian were impeccable. Many leading Italian companies were putting a toe into U.K waters at that time. The first thing they did was to go and see Middleton and he invariably involved me. He must have been very impressed by our first working together. Also during the 1950s Limebeer and Co. took over a small practice through the death of a sole practitioner. He had rather specialised in musical clients but when we took over, some famous names had either died or disappeared. However one of those left was Yehudi Menuhin. We soon became good friends. I was able to help him become resident here without his being made bankrupt by our tax laws.
He expanded his activities and always involved me. I soon got to know his leading Swiss lawyers and they produced some work for me. I was well away. I also got involved with some stage clients - Dinah Sheridan and her daughter Jenny Hanley. All these people were not only clients but became good friends.
Soon after Yehudi had taken up residence in Highgate he set about his long held ambition of founding a school. For the first year or so it had few pupils, shared premises and no money. A management committee, of which I was one, was formed. Things changed shortly with the appointment of an excellent secretary, one Monica Langford. I well remember visiting with her and a fellow committee member (an old friend), F.R. (Bobby) Furber the premises which are now the Y.M. School. They were discovered by Monica They were then much simpler and on sale for around £25,000. We decided to persuade our fellow committee members that the premises must be bought and the money raised. What a task. I was looked to as the person to go about this together with a newly appointed Governor, Major General Sir John Kennedy. We gradually enlisted help from corporations and individuals, Lord Rayne being prominent. Sir John unfortunately died after a short while. Bobby Furber and I were joined by Lord Redesdale (Clem) and Sir Maurice Fiennes (Maurice). We got things well underway and had a lot of fun in doing so. I well remember some rather noisy and lengthy lunches at the City of London Club of which I was a member. I have been Vice President of the school since 1989 and from 1977-90 I was a governor of Live Music Now.
One of the Governors of the Y.M School was Ruth, Lady Fennoy (a Lady in Waiting to the Queen Mother and grandmother of Princess Diana.) She was a fine musician and very close to the Royal Family. Following her death the Prince of Wales organised a concert at Buckingham Palace in her memory. Betty and I were invited and when we were seated the whole royal family from the Queen downwards entered to sit in the front row.
During the late 1950s Bun and I had the idea of leaving the Paragon flat as our main home but buying a country house with some land for mainly summer use. A silly idea but whilst we were looking around we suddenly came upon Court Lodge. I immediately said "That is where we are going to live. Sell the Paragon flat and go for it." So in 1963 I bought Court Lodge. It was terribly run down and needed a lot spent on it. We bought from a most charming person, Mrs Harvey Moore. She was a niece of Lord Baden Powell and therefore keener on camping than creature comforts.
We moved in January 1964. It was rather cold and cheerless. There were open :fireplaces in every room but keeping them stoked was a full time task. We virtually camped from one room to the next while a team of artisans did their work. Anyway, we were able to put things back as they should have been and being a house of at least three periods of history we set out gradually to acquire furniture etc. to suit the rooms. I am forever grateful to my son-in-law Maurice Fitz Gerald for guiding me in the realms of books and paintings in which he has considerable knowledge. We attended many sales at Sotheby's and Christies where we had a lot of fun.
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Betty and I became very active once we were settled into Court Lodge. I particularly so during the late 70s and early 80s. I was Chairman of Westwell Parish Council from 1976-9 and in 1980 became Chairman of Ashford Constituency Conservative Association and in 1991 Vice President. Ashford Constituency extends from Chilham near Canterbury in the north and southwards almost to the sea on the Sussex border. During May 1982 I was installed as Master of the Worshipful Company of Woolmen for the coming year. I later wrote a full account of my year which was typed and bound. Copies are amongst my mementos. I was delighted when Richard later became Master in 2008.
During the 1970s/80s Betty and I enjoyed a considerable amount of social entertaining at Court Lodge. One highlight of our year was the occasion that came to be known as Jesus Night. This took place when our friends Peter and Belinda Gadsden (Sir Peter ex Jesus Cambridge and about that time Lord Mayor of London) stayed with us for the weekend so that Peter could shoot with me. We had a number of friends in the vicinity who were also Jesuans. We were joined by my brother Gerald (two classical firsts at Jesus) and his wife Audrey. I, although without the benefit of a Cambridge education, represented my grandfather Hollis who was at Jesus where he obtained two mathematical firsts in about 1880. Later as the older Jesuans tended to pass into higher service it opened into a Cambridge occasion and we were joined by a number of younger Cambridge friends including my nephew Adam, Gerald's son, and his wife Sarah, and of course Jennifer and Maurice.
Betty and I were very lucky with our continental travels during the 1970s and 1980s as apart from my fairly frequent visits to Italy, Maurice was in the Diplomatic Service and he and Jenny were during the 1970s resident first in Paris then in Strasbourg and finally in The Hague. We had most enjoyable stays with them. At least once a year when I went to Florence I took Betty with me and we used to manage about ten days holiday either in Florence or Venice where we were lent an apartment on the Canale Grande by friends Manfredo and Veronica Moretti degli Adimare. We also used to go annually in July to Geneva where I had some work to do over a few days. We stayed at the Hotel du Lac in the charming little village of Coppet.
One year in December I had various continental visits to make so we booked a rail journey starting in Amsterdam and ending in Rome, leaving the train at Mannheim, Milan and Florence en route. The whole of the journey was in snow. Rome was free of snow but very cold.
Whilst writing about travel I must not fail to mention a very good friend at Westwell, Simon Jervis Read C.B.E., M.C., scion of a distinguished family, Wykehamist, Chindit, Lt. Col., Diplomat and very knowledgeable naturalist and ornithologist. He quickly invited me to join in shooting activities, not only on shooting days but also for rearing and keeping. He was about to become UK representative of the EEC Field Sports Association when he suffered severe heart problems and was unable to travel. I was invited to stand in for him where travel was involved. This entailed travel to various places in Europe - Brussels, the Ardennes, Nuremburg, Paris, Zurich. Later Betty and I were invited as private guests on visits to Copenhagen and Senegal. The last was especially interesting. Senegal has great virtues in climate and people. The only disturbing thing was the poverty. On one occasion I was particularly moved to be asked by a young girl for "un stylo pour aller a l'ecole." Alas I didn't have any; I would like to have given her a boxful.
I have now lived in Court Lodge for more than four decades. During this time the house from many sources has acquired great character and beauty. When my darling Bun was in hospital for the penultimate time, just after our 65th wedding anniversary, she complained "I shall never see my lovely house again". I was warmed by the thought that she viewed it thus and she did see it again but, alas, not for long.
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Title
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Memoir by Arthur Hollis
Description
An account of the resource
Second page has colour photograph of Arthur Hollis, wearing blazer with medals, standing in a field at an event. Narrative covers early life in Hornchurch and Carshalton including schooling and hospital admissions. Writes of Dulwich College studies and sport. Mentions visit to Paris. Career as chartered accountant. Joined local defence volunteers in 1940. On 18th birthday decided to apply for pilot training. Covers training in Manchester and the United States. Life in the States and training on PT-17, Vultee BT 13-A and Harvard. Describes subsequent training in Canada, journey back to United Kingdom and training on Oxfords and Wellington. Goes on with conversion to Lancaster, posting to 50 Squadron and describes life and operations. Instructor tour follows and goes on to describe meeting future wife and subsequent career in RAF including posting to Tiger Force and trip to Hong Kong and subsequent activities. Finishes with post war career and activities.
Creator
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A N Hollis
Format
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Fifteen page printed document with one colour photograph
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Photograph
Identifier
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BHollisANHollisANv1
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The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
France
France--Paris
England--Lancashire
England--Manchester
Canada
Nova Scotia--Halifax
United States
Florida
New Brunswick
New Brunswick--Moncton
England--Gloucestershire
England--Rutland
England--Lincolnshire
England--Buckinghamshire
France
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Hamburg
Czech Republic
Czech Republic--Plzeň
Italy
Italy--Milan
Germany--Friedrichshafen
England--Oxfordshire
England--Northamptonshire
China
China--Hong Kong
Nova Scotia
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
5 BFTS
50 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
British Flying Training School Program
civil defence
Distinguished Flying Cross
Harvard
Home Guard
Lancaster
love and romance
military living conditions
military service conditions
Oxford
pilot
RAF Little Rissington
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Turweston
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Westcott
Stearman
Tiger force
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1406/36681/ERosserARosserLV411025.2.pdf
8e090c00c0a603b8eafbab8f18dacb87
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rosser, Lewis Victor
L V Rosser
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-05-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Rosser, LV
Description
An account of the resource
154 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Lewis Victor Rosser (b. 1919, 745193 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, a diary of his operations, notebooks, documents, correspondence and an album. He flew operations as a pilot with 35, 58, 51 and 115 Squadrons. <br /><br />The collection includes a <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2133">Photograph album</a> with photographs of people and aircraft, artwork cards, newspaper cuttings and documents. <br /><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ann Godard and Joy Shirley and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[postmark]
745193
Sgt. Rosser L.V.
Sgts. Mess.
R.A.F. Station
Dishforth.
Yorks.
[inserted] Art [/inserted]
[page break]
1.
139. Marlborough Rd.
Oxford.
Oct. 25th 1941.
Dear Lew.
How the hell do you think I can obtain petrol coupons. I know I hold an executive position, but as you are aware the mis-use of coupons is against the law and although I am [indecipherable word] I havent found a fire proof way of obtaining them. However, if at all
[page break]
2.
possible I shall wangle some and forward on to you at the earliest opportunity.
About this girl Pamela, has there been any intercourse between you and something gone wrong? By the strain of your last letter you seem to have fallen completely for her, and in order to give me some conclusive proof of the looks and figure of this irresistible concubine, why not send a photograph and see if she meets with my approval.
[page break]
3.
Regards this question of leave, I hope you are saving up a few pounds in order to carry both of us over those 12 days, yes and I mean both of us, as at the present moment I am £2 in debt and practically no hope of being able to pay it back for at least 3 weeks. You see I happen to be the only one of a fine old gang left, and I am called upon to go out on the booze every
[page break]
4.
time one of the boys come home, and for the past 5 weeks one or the other has been here, they have all gone, Stan Samaworth, Albert Price, Harry Cooke, and Maurice Gaisford etc. and I am getting completely cheesed hanging around Oxford by myself, so hurry up and get some leave and we'll proceed to paint the Town red, probably with all your recent practice, you are getting somewhere near my drinking capacity.
[page break]
5.
By the way, if you bring Pamela here, you had better look out, I'm a pretty smart guy.
Cherio [sic]
All the Best.
Art
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Lewis Rosser from A Rosser
Description
An account of the resource
Writes that it was not possible or legal for him to get petrol coupons. Comments on Lewis's latest love life and plans for his next leave. Continues with information on his activities.
Creator
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A Rosser
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-10-25
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-10-25
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Oxford
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
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Text
Text. Correspondence
Format
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Five page handwritten letter and envelope
Identifier
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ERosserARosserLV411025
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Jayne L Bailey
love and romance
RAF Dishforth
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/327/3486/AShuttleworthHJ151021.1.mp3
1e229b0a918cfe3b6d74219097f584c4
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/327/3486/PShuttleworthJ1501.1.jpg
59a7d9a38c1dae94a5276abcaff86f0f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Shuttleworth, Joe
Hugh Joseph Shuttleworth
Hugh J Shuttleworth
Hugh Shuttleworth
H J Shuttleworth
H Shuttleworth
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Hugh Joseph "Joe" Shuttleworth.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Shuttleworth, J
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive is with Joe Shuttleworth. A 50 Squadron rear gunner. The interview is taking place in Surrey Hills which is a suburb of Melbourne. It is the 21st of October 2015. My name’s Adam Purcell. So, I think we’ll start, if you don’t mind Joe with can you tell me something of your early life, growing up? What you did before the war.
JS: Well I grew up and born in Brisbane and had a pretty charmed life. Went to a state school. Wasn’t much but was good at ball games and I enjoyed life with my mother and father. Father had a job whereas, you know in the Depression years in the 1930s times were pretty rough really. I remember kids taking food out of rubbish bins at school. That didn’t ever happen to me. My mother and father came from Victoria and they moved up to Queensland at some point about 1920/21. And they came. Big families. And I had the opportunity of being sent down to, to Melbourne when I was ten and again when I was fourteen and caught up with my, my relatives on both my mother’s side and father’s side. And after a long time my mother and father agreed to, that I join the air force. So I went to the air force place and I was accepted to air crew. And that was February 1941. That was before the Japanese war but I wasn’t called in for a uniform until May of 1942. By that time the Japanese were well advanced in the, in Northern Australia. I was at 3 ITS. The Initial Training School that was based at Sandgate and the waterfront was just outside, you know. Do you know? You know Brisbane I suppose?
AP: I don’t. I don’t know it very well but —
JS: Do you know Sandgate then?
AP: No. I don’t actually.
JS: The water was just outside the area there. There I was told I wasn’t accepted to go in aircrew because I had an eye deficiency. I wasn’t smart enough to be accepted as a navigator. They were the boys with all the brains. So I enlisted as a wireless operator/ gunner and went to Maryborough where I was there for about seven months. Whilst there I got the mumps and I was in the, in the hospital at the camp for a few days and then I went down to a convalescent place nearby. Spent a couple of very enjoyable weeks there. Life in Maryborough was, was pretty good and we stayed in huts of about forty blokes in there. Food was pretty good. I palled up with a particular bloke who came from Bundaberg. He had a brother that was killed in the early stages of the war. And we saw a bit of Bundaberg, went down to the various beaches on the back of his motorbike. Then after Maryborough went down to Evans Head to a, to a gunnery school and did a bit of flying there. We had Fairey Battles aircraft pulling a drogue and we’d have a pretty, what do they call it, a go gun to shoot at the drogue. About 5 o’clock everybody was saying to me go down to the, to the beach. Occasionally I went to Lismore for the weekend and I stayed at a hotel there. Was presented with the, with the wings and went back to, to Brisbane. Stayed around on, on leave there for a few weeks. The air force then sent us down to Melbourne. We, I was able to get caught up, caught up with my relatives. Uncles and aunts on both side. Saw my grandmother who died when I was overseas. And then, surprisingly the air force decided to send us back to Brisbane. We sailed from Brisbane in about May of ’42. Went down to the wharf and got on to a ship. A Dutch ship. The [pause] What was its name? Anyways, under, under American command. We had bunks down in the holds of the ship. It was, the air was pretty putrid there. I elected to sleep out most nights on the, on the deck. Sometimes I got a bit wet but just a light shower. Life was pretty good. There was lots of good reading material there. Particularly a publication, a Saturday Morning Post, err Saturday Evening Post. But it ceased publication but I read a lot about American life. We had nineteen days on the, on the Pacific. Didn’t see another ship. Didn’t see any land at all. But it was a very enjoyable nineteen days. The weather was pretty good the last couple of days going into San Francisco. In San Francisco it got a bit rough but not too bad. Went in under the Golden Gate Bridge and the ship docked just in the bayside outside Alcatraz at the, the big prison there. After about a day and a half we went across to, to Oakland. Got on a, sent on a train and we went on the train — spent about four and a half days on the train going across America. Went up through Sacramento and that’s where I saw my first snow. I hadn’t seen snow in my life because my previous trips to Melbourne were in the summertime. It was. There was no, no snow up there [unclear]. And we went to, we sat up during the daylight hours and there’d be an American negro putting down the beds that we could sleep on at night. But it was very interesting going across America, seeing. I recall going across on the boat — we didn’t have any ice cream and I think I had the best ice cream in my life at Salt Lake City early one morning. Bought a, bought a packet. It was great. We continued on the train across the, across the Mississippi which the negro, the negro fellow pointed out to us and went outside to a place called Taunton which was outside Boston and there we had some leave. Got down to New York. Saw The Rockets. They were a dancing team. Also, the Rockefeller Centre which is an ice rink there. Lots of American people skating around on, on ice. Went down to Philadelphia to see a, the father, I previously worked in Brisbane at the SKF Bearing Company and an American GI, I believe went in there to enjoy himself about his father being employed at the SKF Bearing Company in Philadelphia. So, I went down there, introduced myself and they looked after me very well. Went back to Boston. We used to get leave in the, during the day. Went down to, to Rhode Island. And life was, was pretty good really. Then we went down to New York. Got aboard the, the Queen Elizabeth and at that time in the next berth was the Queen Mary and alongside again on an adjoining wharf was the Normandie, the French ship which was sunk there — caught fire and they pumped so much water I think it was always suspected it was a, as a ploy really because the Normandie would have been a great asset to the allies ferrying troops to and from Europe. There was only about two hundred Australians there. We were selected to do anti-craft, anti-aircraft watch on the, on the ship. And that was a bit, a bit of a thrill for a twenty year lad on the QE. Was it just the Queen Elizabeth? The QE1 it was subsequently called. Spent about four and a half days getting across the Atlantic. Went in to Scotland to, to Greenock. Stayed there on the ship for about a day and a half and then got on a train and sent down to Brighton. And one, one evening I was out on the, doing the anti-aircraft watch and a Sunderland circled around and it was pretty atrocious weather and I thought not Coastal Command. It’s not for me. I’ll take my risk on Bomber Command. So, after a few weeks in, in Brighton I was sent to 29 OTU at Bruntingthorpe which is now still an operating airfield. The equivalent of something like Moorabbin. It’s not, not an RAF station. But Bruntingthorpe initially was pretty much lectures and the operation of turrets and I did reasonably well on that. I was selected by a flight lieutenant, a Scotsman from Dunoon in Scotland and he, he thought I had potential evidently. There was another chap, Bill Bottrell. He was an Irishman and he had an Irish wireless operator and they were very keen for me to join their crew but I didn’t do so. But fortunately, or unfortunately they were all subsequently killed. At the OTU we lost two aircraft. One disappeared off the Wales Coast and another coming back from dropping pamphlets over France crashed. There was an Australian air gunner, rear gunner, he died. And the only person who got out of it, a chap named Terry Wilder who I subsequently met and I’ll refer to him later. The flying was at an subsidiary airfield Cresswell. And on OT, on Wellingtons, which were pretty well clapped out, one night we were doing circuits and bumps as I used to call them. Just circling around. Mainly to get the pilot practising in flying the Wellington. Circuits and landings and take offs. But one night when we were just about on air speed of about a hundred, a hundred kilometers an hour got a tyre burst and the aircraft crashed and slewed around. We all walked out of it unscathed but the risk was that sometimes in those circumstances if it caught fire because the Wellington was only fabric covered. Then whilst at Bruntingthorpe the adjoining village was at Lutterworth and there was a bit of a fair there one night and I was walking around and girls, two girls came up and one girl, Joyce Barry asked me did I have any change which I was able to oblige but I palled up with the other girl Freda who I subsequently married. We, we spent a lot of, a bit of time together. I was, after leaving Bruntingthorpe, I went up to Bitteswell and converted there to four-engined aircraft. Particularly the Lancaster. What’s so interesting in my father’s era pretty well they were all smokers but in our crew, there was only two smokers — the wireless operator and the top gunner. And that was pretty representative of the situation, I think, everywhere really. So, it’s the attitude to smoking has changed so much over the years. At, at Bitteswell we could, I was sent up to Skellingthorpe to do fighter affiliation work. We had Australians flying Tomahawks and, you know they were just making a simulated attacks on the aircraft and there would be a camera so that it would record what you did and the circumstances. We also changed the wireless operators at Bitteswell but I was up at Skellingthorpe so I don’t know really what happened. I wasn’t there to. Then we went to Morton Hall. To a commando school really. Jumping over fences and getting through wires etcetera. Unfortunately, I sprained my ankle on the second day so I was, did very little. I often thought subsequently that Morton Hall could have been the Command Centre for 5 Group but I, I don’t know whether that was right or not. Also, when we were at Bruntingthorpe we could hear engines running and just talked about, you know a place down the road running engines. We subsequently found that it was Frank Whittle, subsequently Sir Frank Whittle developing the jet engine. What happened then? I think we went to, posted to Skellingthorpe. Now, one thing about Bitteswell, that was a permanent RAF station and the accommodation was in brick buildings whereas at Skellingthorpe it was a wartime aerodrome. Lived in what we called Nissen huts — accommodation for about ten crew. And there would be a stove in the centre of the hut where we burned coke to keep us warm in the, in the cooler times. Also, before we went to Skellingthorpe went to Syerston. That was another permanent RAF station where the accommodation was in brick buildings. Actually, I saw my first snow drop at Syerston. That was the first I’d seen in England. Life on the, on the squadron, 50 Squadron and the flight insignia on the aircraft was VN and I’ve got a plate inside where that, the N is showing. We tended to go up to the flight office about 9 o’clock in the morning to see whether there was a war on. If there wasn’t we’d go out to the aircraft and have a mess around. Have practice of getting out of an aircraft into a dinghy. The food was pretty, pretty reasonable. It was certainly the best available in England. Sausages were mainly a lot of bread. I often thought I wouldn’t eat baked beans again but I quite like them now and again. But certainly, food at the squadron was the best available in England on the operations. If the war was on we were given an evening meal and briefed as to where the aircraft, where the target would be. The wing commander would say where, where the target was that night. We’d see the target. The flights into Europe, we did a lot of trips to Berlin and they were generally about ten hours. Sometimes you went in, flew over France. Other times it would be over north, over Denmark and into Berlin that way.
Other: Do you want a drink of water, dad?
JS: Pardon?
Other: Would you like a drink of water?
JS: No thanks. No. Yeah, perhaps so.
[pause]
JS: The great losses of aircraft at that time — we would be sending out about seven hundred and fifty aircraft and we’d generally lose about fifty. So, on a tour of thirty, statistically it’s impossible to get through a tour but some, some did.
AP: What time was this?
JS: Pardon?
AP: What time was it? What? Or when was it?
JS: We tended to, to go off just before dark. About an hour, this is English time. I suppose it would be about 8 o’clock really because there was double daylight saving over there then. So it was, you know normally light till about ten and we’d probably take off about eight and get back about ten, ten hours later. That was coming back after a flight. The, all the, the squadron leader and the wing commander and sometimes the air commodore would be there to greet you. Hot, hot chocolate drink to drink. It was a bit hard at times, you know. It would come back to you, you had to go to bed but sometimes representatives of other crews didn’t survive. On one occasion we did three, three flights in and, then in four days we did two daylights. Take off at daylight. Another one we turned, turned up about midnight. Came back in the light and flew over England. And I recall one particular occasion coming back over the south coast of England, seeing the white cliffs of Dover and up through England. I often thought that, you know life was pretty great really. What else? When I was at Skellingthorpe I used to go down and see Freda, my wife and often hitch-hiked back and often stood outside the Trent Bridge Cricket Ground waiting for a lift back to Skellingthorpe which is just outside Lincoln. Eventually, one night coming back there was a flash about 11 o’clock high and I felt immediate pain in this eye. I think one of the crew dragged me out of the turret. We got back to, to England and went to, to hospital at Rauceby which was outside Grantham. And there they gave me the decision that they couldn’t do anything about the eye. It would have to come out because the piece of metal there was, was too big. And then after about, oh about a month in hospital there I went up to Hoylake which is outside Liverpool. The RAF had taken it over as a convalescent. It was a public school and they’d taken it over as a reception recuperation place for aircrew personnel and I had a few months there. Quite, you know, life was good. Used to have various exercises to keep us, keep us young and fit. One particular bloke that I met at Rauceby, an RAAF bloke, an RAAF bloke he came from Barcaldine in Queensland. He’d married one of the, the nurses at the hospital. A bloke named Templeton. I guess he came, eventually came back to Australia. The, after Hoylake I went back to, to Brighton and they asked me did I, they told me I was declared unfit for further flying. They asked me did I want to go up to Kodak House and stay in a clerical position or come back to Australia. And I said, ‘No. I’m going back to Australia,’ but I went up to Kodak House and did clerical duties there for a couple of months. That was, that was alright. Eventually they sent, took me back to Brighton and I waited then a decision on, on going home to Australia. Whilst in London I had the husband of a cousin of mine on my mother’s side who had been in the Royal Navy since about fourteen or fifteen years of age. He was a lieutenant there and I saw quite a bit of Keith. Also, Australia House they had a Boomerang Club where they used to serve luncheons there. It was all done in a voluntary capacity. A lot of Australians would go there and meet fellows that we’d met at various times at our training. Eventually the word came. Get on a train. Went back to Greenock. Back on the Queen Elizabeth. Back to New York. By that time there were very few Australians there. Only, only about a hundred of us and there was no, a few Americans going back after being injured in various parts of the UK. Well, whilst at Hoylake we went down to the luncheon. The BBC news came on and announced D-day. That was a great thrill. It was eventually on. My brother in law, Fred is my sister’s husband, he was in the, in the army and you know he got out at Dunkirk. Went around to North Africa. Involved in the, in to Sicily and in to Italy. Back to England and then went into Europe about two, about two days after D-day. So, they certainly had a tough, tough life. One of the things at the RAF stations we used to have sheets on our beds. That’s something that we didn’t ever have in Australia but we had lovely blankets and the idea was to hang onto your Australian blankets because they were real wool and warm whereas the English blankets tended to be a bit feltish. At [pause] New York we, we had constant leave. Went down to one of the United Services Club and they invited me to go down and meet a couple of girls there, you know. Palled up with one girl. Went out with her and she took me home to a place on Great Neck and introduced me to her sister and her father who was involved in the forestry business and, yes they looked after me very well. Took me to a nightclub. Café society. And I got a signature of Joe, Joe Lewis — the American world champion boxer. Had quite a number of other signatures in that, in that RAAF diary but it’s disappeared like a lot of other things. Back on the train to San Francisco. This time we went on a more southerly route in those rather poorer areas of America. Whereas the country up north around Denver, you know was lovely and prosperous but the southern parts looked, looked pretty tough. Went to a staging camp, Petersburg. Was there for about a fortnight. American people often took us for drives around the country. Eventually we went on to a ship, the Monterey. One of the American liners. Went to, sailed it across. The ship was full of Americans going out to the Pacific war, warfare. Sailed into Finschhafen, saw my first American Duck in the water there. Spent a couple of days there. Then went up to Hollandia, changed ship there on the Swansea and that came down to Oro Bay and Milne Bay and back to Brisbane. That’s about it.
AP: That was pretty well your story. Well, we may as well go, have a look at some of the things in a bit more detail if you don’t mind.
JS: Yeah.
AP: I love it. I ask one question and thirty minutes later we, we’re just about finished. We’re not really. Where were you when you heard that war was declared? And how old were you and what did you think at the time?
JS: I was [pause] When the Japanese invaded or are you talking —
AP: Well, right back at the beginning. 1939.
JS: Oh yes. Yes. I remember. I was working then at the SKF Bearing Company in Brisbane and a couple of months after the war started it was obvious we wouldn’t be able to get ball bearings and roller bearings from Europe where most of it was coming from. Not a lot from Sweden. So, the boss said to me, ‘Well Joe. Sorry.’ But I was a stock clerk there and quite an interesting job. Enjoyed it. So, I was able to get a job at a warehouse in Brisbane — Hoffman’s and Company who sold supplies to, to the small shops in those days. Of course, there was small shops over the Brisbane area and over the Queensland area. And I was there until I was, went into the air force then in, in May of ’42. One thing too that I may, should have mentioned. At Sandgate we were, just before lunch, there was an American Airacobra who flew around the station. But he got too low. Dipped his wing in the water and crashed. And in those days I was pretty, pretty fit so I and a few others swam out but he was dead unfortunately. Whilst I didn’t see it that same afternoon another one crashed out, out into the sea.
AP: You were on the Reserve. The Air Force Reserve for a fair time, I think. You said it was.
JS: Yeah.
AP: It was almost a year.
JS: From February. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. What, did the air force give you anything to do in that time?
JS: Yes.
AP: Or did you just carry on?
JS: We attended educational classes in airmanship and particularly Morse code which I never really ever mastered well. Formed quite a few friendships of fellows there. In Brisbane a number of fellows who, who went to, to England there was a very high casualty list amongst them. Fellows that I went to school with, who knew in various parts, you know, didn’t come back. But I, when I was discharged at the [pause] just after the world war, the Japanese capitulated, I joined Veterans Affairs and worked at Veterans Affairs for a couple off months off forty years. First in their administrative offices in Brisbane. In Perry House. I was there for a few years. Then I went out to the Greenslopes Hospital. Was there until 1959 when they, for the last six months I went to Kenmore which was a TB sanitorium out [pause] out Lone Pine way. Out that direction. And then in 1960 I applied for positions. The blokes ahead of me weren’t going to move from Brisbane. My father had died. My mother was living with us and we were in a, built a home in Corinda in Brisbane and we’d only two bedrooms. My mother was in the lounge and she had relatives in Melbourne of course so I applied for a job in Melbourne. Eventually went to, to Heidelberg and I was there most of the time in Heidelberg. My last job there was director of administration which was an exceedingly interesting job. You know, in charge of the domestic services, food services, ordinary stores and administrative people. And I had a lot of liaising with the, the medical people and specialist departments like occupational therapy, physiotherapy. Yeah.
AP: So that’s the repatriation hospital at Heidelberg.
JS: Heidelberg. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Ok.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Just for context because this is going to the UK.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Why did you pick the air force?
JS: I had a fear of fighting in the trenches of France.
AP: Did you have any —
JS: And I was always interested. We lived in, in Sherwood in Corinda and it wasn’t so many miles across to the Archerfield Aerodrome. And I often used to cycle out or being taken out by somebody to see visiting aircraft. Had a few joy flights out that way. My father, airlines had prospered, it meant that caught an aircraft, a Stinson to Townsville and then changed aircraft. He was going to Cairns and he got into a Dragon Rapide. Only a little two-engined aircraft. And going out the weather closed in. They landed on the beach. Stayed there for a couple of hours. The pilot said, ‘We’ve got to get out the tide’s coming in too quickly.’ So, they went on to Cairns. Now, fancy that happening that way.
AP: Now [laughs] yeah. It’s a bit different. I was going to ask you something about that. Alright. The first time you went in an aeroplane. Apart from those joy flights. When you were in the air force tell me about your first flight if you can remember it.
JS: At Maryborough. That was my first flight.
AP: What, what did you think of it?
JS: They were pretty basic aircraft but they were pretty good in those days.
AP: That was a Battle?
JS: They had wireless sets and you’d practice your Morse code and verbal communication. Yeah.
AP: Very good. You’ve told me how you got to the UK. That’s very good. When, what [pause] that was the first time you went overseas?
JS: Pardon?
AP: That was the first time you went overseas?
JS: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. What did you think of wartime England? First. First thoughts on arrival.
JS: Oh, lovely country. Lots of beautiful girls. Lots of warm beer. It was pretty hard to get cold beer in those days. The countryside was absolutely beautiful.
AP: Alright. That leads on to the next question, I guess. The beer question. What did you do to relax when you weren’t on duty?
JS: Where?
AP: What did you do to relax when you were not on duty?
JS: Where?
AP: Ah, well anywhere. On the squadron. On OTU. That sort of thing. When you were on leave. Or not even on leave.
JS: Very often I was going to and from Lutterworth to see my wife.
AP: And you actually got married in England.
JS: Yes.
AP: Yeah. That’s —
JS: Got married on the 30th of December 1943.
AP: Tell me about a wartime wedding.
JS: It was at Bardon Hill just outside Coalville. We toasted with a bottle of Australian wine. How it happened to be there I’m not quite sure but it was there. I realised, you know, that people in England had it pretty tough in comparison to, to life in the Australian household. You know they didn’t have a bathroom. They’d have a tub which, which you’d have a wash in that. Whereas of course in Australia, you know I grew up in a house, a timber house on stilts. Had a copper down, down under the house where you washed your clothes. But if you wanted a hot bath you had to bucket water up in to the bathroom. I remember a chip heater being installed to heat the water in the bath. That was a great advantage. Subsequently of course before the war it was put in an electrical system [pause] And domestic appliances. In those days there was no dishwashers, vacuum cleaners or anything like that. Cleaning the floors was done by a broom or down with a cloth. Hand and knees. I remember my mother, you know washing the floor and polishing the floor which was in those days was linoleum. Whereas these days we’ve got all these modern cons and every, and of course, you know people get fairly gigantic loans to get into houses but you know they, they want and expect everything at the same time. All of those modern cons. Two cars in the family which is pretty well a necessity these days.
AP: Different, different times I think, Joe. Different times.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Alright. We might, might talk a bit about, well ok the aircraft. The Lancaster. What did you think the first time you saw a Lancaster?
JS: Yeah. Well it was, was built to carry bombs. Pretty light construction really. I saw the one earlier this year. Went up to the War Memorial in Canberra. And whilst we, we thought it was huge back in 1943 you know, they’re pretty tiny now. And one of the, one of the things that the RAF didn’t miss on. You know, you often thought that the aircraft would be attacking you in to the, in to the turret but what was happening would be German aircraft perhaps a thousand feet down below you and what they didn’t know — the Germans had a gun pointing up like that and of course the aircraft was sending out a certain amount of exhaust fumes so we were sitting ducks to the German fighter pilots. And the RAF didn’t ever wake up to the fact that this was what was happening.
AP: Did, did the crews themselves have some sort of an idea of that? Or —
JS: No.
AP: There was just no, no one had, they just disappeared.
JS: It didn’t seem to get through to anybody.
AP: No one worked it out. What’s a turret look like when you’re in it? You’re sitting in your turret. What’s in front of you? What’s beside you?
JS: There was, in a Wellington it was two guns — 303s. And in the Lancasters four. Four guns. The ammunition. Every, about every tenth shell would be a tracer so that you could see it in the sky. I didn’t ever fire a gun at a fighter pilot. A fighter. I didn’t see one. And of course, our gunnery was 303s whereas the English, the German fighter pilots certainly .5 or 20mm.
AP: Yeah. There was a bit of an unfair fight, I think.
JS: Yes. Yeah. The, the Halifax, I didn’t ever have a flight on it. I was very impressed with the turret in the Halifax. A Boulton Paul whereas it was a Fraser Nash in the Lancaster. And I’ve been told that they were easier to get out of if there was an emergency.
AP: I’ve heard of that sort of thing. That kind of declares my next question null and void. But I suppose you did fighter affiliation. What’s, what’s the drill when you, if you were to spot a night fighter somewhere —
JS: Yes.
AP: What happens next? What’s the drill?
JS: You’d do a corkscrew. Down. Down to port or to starboard. So, go down and up, down and up again to get out. That was a case of being attacked from the rear by an aircraft. Now that didn’t ever happen to me and I don’t think it happened to too many.
AP: What was a corkscrew like in a turret?
JS: It was up and down, you know. That wasn’t, that wasn’t too bad you know. In the turret of course, we had heated, heated suits on. One night coming back across Denmark mine petered out and I had a fairly cold trip back. But I survived alright [laughs] the temperature outside me would be down. Down to about fifty degrees centigrade. Centigrade.
AP: What, what was your evacuation drill if you had to leave an aircraft in a hurry? What would you have done as the rear gunner in a Lancaster?
JS: Well, you had to get around, open the doors, grab your parachute. The parachute wasn’t in the turret. It was inside the aircraft. Grab the turret and either get it back and jump out of the, from the turret or get out through the main door. And the idea was to roll over so that you didn’t get hit by the tail fin.
AP: It sounds like it would take a fair bit of time that you probably might not have had.
JS: Yeah. And if you were doing it at say eighteen thousand, you know we would be bombing at about twenty one thousand. You know. You know, coming down all of a sudden. Pretty hard getting out I’d imagine.
AP: How many, how many trips did you actually do?
JS: Twenty five.
AP: Twenty five. And it was the twenty fifth trip which you were injured.
JS: Twenty fifth I met my Waterloo.
AP: Do you know what it actually was that hit you? You said you never saw a fighter.
JS: No. I suspect it was — of course the Germans were sending out anti-aircraft fire from the ground. But I strongly suspect it was one of these, these fighters that were down below, below me and sent up a shell hoping to knock out the aircraft. Perhaps his shot wasn’t all that good and hit the turret.
AP: Was that the only damage to the aircraft that you know of?
JS: Yes.
AP: Yeah. So, and you were the only one injured.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Luck of the draw isn’t it?
JS: Yeah. Luck of the draw.
AP: Yeah. Very much so. Do any of your other operations stand out in your memory at all? Any, any other interesting ones?
JS: There was one particular night there was a bit of a disagreement between the navigator and the pilot as the track which we should go back on and we wandered over, over France and got coned by about a half a dozen searchlights. We thought we were a bit lucky to get out of that and didn’t deserve to get out of it really. Another night, taking off, the aircraft swung across to starboard and pretty much out of the control of the pilot really. Scooped off the runway. Got up alright but was a bit dicey there for a few minutes. You know there was a tremendous amount of people killed over there as a result of sheer accidents really. You know there was six hundred and fifty two thousand killed in Bomber Command and a very high percentage of those were due to accidents and not involving operations.
AP: Yeah. It was a large, it was, was a certainly a large —
JS: Yeah.
AP: Before they even got on to a squadron let alone —
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah.
JS: There was about four hundred plus or minus a few Australians killed over in, in Europe.
AP: Yeah. There were quite a few.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Oh, Morton Hall. I was going to ask you about that. My great, this is the personal bit for the tape. My great uncle, so my Bomber Command connection spent some time at Morton Hall as well.
JS: Yes.
AP: It’s written in the back of his logbook. I don’t know what he did there.
JS: No.
AP: So, if you could expand a little bit on that that would be really cool.
JS: Just a commando school to make us physically fit. It was, you know, it was important to be fit for flying. It was also if you happened to parachute down into Europe to try and escape. You know. It was good fun and I enjoyed it very much until the second day I sprained my ankle.
AP: That was the end of that.
JS: Harris, the, in charge of Bomber Command. We didn’t ever see him at the airfields. We used to refer to him as Butcher Harris.
AP: London is, is something that comes up often in these interviews. Aircrew sort of seemed to gravitate to London on leave or as they were passing through on the way to other things. Obviously, you spent a little bit more time there than most at Kodak House.
JS: Yes.
AP: But I’m interested in perhaps in what, what sort of things you did in London. What did you see? What did you do? When you weren’t, when you weren’t necessarily at work.
JS: Well I used to see my cousin a fair amount. We’d often go out for a few drinks. He knew the London area pretty well. He’d been there since well before the war. Knew a place down near Victoria, Victoria Street station where we could get some steak. That was a pretty important factor over there. We weren’t great drinkers. I was never a great drinker, and I wasn’t a smoker.
AP: That’s, yeah that’s it’s something that a lot of people seemed to meet friends in London as well.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: The Boomerang Club for example.
JS: Yeah.
AP: There was a signing in book or something. You’d look through and go, ‘Oh, I know him.’
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Very good. I guess we’re getting pretty close to the end of my list of questions. You said you weren’t a great drinker. Did you spend any time in the local pub near Skellingthorpe? What was it called? And what happened?
JS: No. We spent more, more time in the local pub at Lutterworth drinking some of the warm beer. Looking at the fire. There was always a fireplace so, and there was always somebody who could play a piano, have a sing song and very enjoyable nights.
AP: Excellent. Piano is something you don’t get very often these days either.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Alright. I guess we’ll jump down towards the end now. You’ve told me what you did in civilian life. How is, how do you think Bomber Command is remembered and what sort of legacy do you think?
JS: Well, unfortunately, of course they got a bad name on the, on that last raid to Dresden. A lot of people think that that was unnecessary. I think it was probably at the request, to some degree by the Russians and of course not only did the RAF operate at Dresden the Americans sent daylight aircraft over there. And that seems to be, seemed to be forgotten. You know, Harris after the war he didn’t get any, any knighthood. He went back to South Africa, I think. I’ve got an idea he went to Kenya where he’d come from originally.
AP: So, for, how do you remember your time in Bomber Command. What did you get out of it, I suppose?
JS: A great experience. Great experience. I had a world’s trip.
AP: I guess that’s —
JS: A selfish, selfish attitude but that’s what it was.
AP: That’s —
JS: I, you know, saw places. I’ve never been back to England. I haven’t been outside of Australia at all.
AP: That was, that was your one opportunity and you grabbed it.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Very much so. Well, I guess that’s, that’s really all I’ve got for you.
JS: Yeah.
AP: So, thank you very much Joe.
JS: That’s alright.
AP: It’s been a pleasure.
JS: How much do I owe you?
AP: [laughs] Not at all.
[recording paused]
JS: Control at the aerodromes were girls.
AP: Ah yes.
JS: Talk you in. Sometimes you’d come back after operation — you might be ten or fifteen thousand feet and you’d come down on five hundred feet levels.
AP: Someone would have to control that.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Do you, do you remember much about the process of arriving back at the base?
JS: Well I was, you know we were treated like heroes when you came back. As I’ve said before the station commander and the wing commander if he, sometimes he’d be on operations but generally he wasn’t. They were there to, to greet you. And sometimes the commodore within 5 Group was 54 base and that covered Skellingthorpe, Bardney, number 9 Squadron. And 463 and 467 at Waddington. It was 54 base and there would be an air commodore in charge of that and sometimes he’d be there to, to greet you.
AP: That’s pretty [pause] yeah. Excellent so , ok why not keep going? When you, when you arrived back you come back to dispersal, the engines shut down. What do you feel? What do you think?
JS: Relief. It was nice to get out. Out of that aircraft. Get some of that flying gear off. You know these Taylor suite. These great huge yellow heated suits. Get that off and out of uniform would have underclothing. Cotton. Warm underclothing. Long strides and singlets. So, you liked to get that out of the aircraft. Outer garment off. It was a relief of that’s another one towards the twenty five, from the thirty. They didn’t, we’d hoped to, our aim was to complete the thirty and then go to Pathfinders. Kind of liked an eagle on my uniform but I didn’t.
AP: Did the rest of your crew go on?
JS: No. No. They were all, all killed.
AP: Oh really?
JS: They went on flying and were killed.
AP: So you, I guess you got away with it didn’t you?
JS: Yes. Yes, I was one of the lucky ones.
AP: Yeah very much so. What was, what actually was the target that night and when, what night was it. Can you remember?
JS: No.
AP: No. Sorry. That you were. That you were — sorry.
JS: Yeah. Well I was in hospital.
AP: Sorry.
JS: Yeah.
AP: The night that you were injured what was that?
JS: Berlin.
AP: Berlin. On which trip? What night? Do you know what the date was?
JS: 25th .
AP: Of?
JS: ’43. No. No ’44. ’44.
AP: ’44. So, March. Was that March?
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Ok.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Ok. My great uncle was on that trip as well.
JS: Yeah. Of course, as you know they had some disastrous trips. Leipzig, they lost seventy nine and about ninety six, ninety seven at Nuremberg.
AP: Yeah. They were all in, in that area.
JS: Yeah.
AP: And there was a Munich trip in there as well.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: And there was a whole bunch. Yeah. That was a particularly bad time to be operating actually.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Wow. That’s, you were very lucky then.
JS: Yeah.
AP: To be taken off ops then.
JS: Of course, the Americans saved us really with their capacity. The manpower and their capacity to build ships and provide aircraft. I don’t think England would have been able to survive without American help. If the Japanese hadn’t have come in I think ultimately Hitler would have been, invaded England.
AP: It could have been a very, very different war.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yes, that —
JS: You know, the American capacity. I know was probably a stunt but they, they built one of those Liberty ships, about ten thousand tonnes in three and half days. Working twenty four hours, seven days.
AP: Craziness. Shows what wartime economies can, can achieve.
JS: Yeah.
AP: To a certain extent for unlimited. Very good. Ok. Anything else you have to add?
JS: No.
AP: Just before I turn it off again.
JS: No. That’s about it, I think.
AP: That’s about it. That’s, that’s very good actually.
JS: Yeah.
AP: That’s some very good stuff there.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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AShuttleworthHJ151021, PShuttleworthJ1501
Title
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Interview with Joe Shuttleworth
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:03:05 audio recording
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2015-10-21
Description
An account of the resource
Joe Shuttleworth was born and raised in Brisbane but also spent a lot of time with family in the Melbourne area. He volunteered for aircrew and soon began training as a gunner. After initial training he sailed to the United States and on to the UK. While at operational training unit at RAF Bruntingthorpe he went to the local village where a chance encounter led to meeting his future wife who he married in 1943. He was posted to 50 Squadron as an air gunner and was based at RAF Skellingthorpe. On his twenty fifth operation which was to Berlin he experienced a sudden flash and a searing pain. One of the crew managed to pull him out of the turret. He was taken to hospital at RAF Rauceby where he lost his eye. The rest of his crew continued to fly but they were all killed in a later operation. Joe returned to Australia where his wife joined him a year later. He remembers his time with Bomber Command as a wonderful experience which led him to see the world. After the war Joe never left Australia again.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
New York (State)--New York
Queensland--Brisbane
Victoria--Melbourne
Germany
Germany--Heidelberg
Victoria
New York (State)
Queensland
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1943
29 OTU
50 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
crash
Lancaster
love and romance
mess
military living conditions
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bitteswell
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF hospital Rauceby
RAF Morton Hall
RAF Skellingthorpe
take-off crash
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/328/3488/PSmithJ1601.2.jpg
0fe7e11ac29997643bdadaafb0ca7c4b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/328/3488/ASmithJ160312.1.mp3
6c84a152556073ed657df032c82e6d84
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Jean
J Smith
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Jean Smith (2105009 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. She worked as a clerk in the aircraft manufacturing industry before the war and later served as a secretary in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force. She served at 27 Operational Training Unit at RAF Lichfield.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, J
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre is with Jean Smith, who was a WAAF at Lichfield among other places during World War Two, she in fact I met her husband who was a Stirling flight engineer, so this is gonna be a good one. My name is Adam Purcell, the interview is taking place at Jean’s home in McCrae, south of Melbourne and it is the 12th of March 2016. So, Jean, I thought we might start from the beginning, it’s probably a good spot. Uhm, can you tell me something of your early life, what, where and how you grew up, uhm, education, first job, that sort of thing.
JS: Oh, well, I was born on the 1st of January 1922 and born in [unclear] 6, moved to, uhm, Welwyn Garden City and that’s where I spent my school life. I went not to the local primary school and I went to Hitchin Grammar School, was the nearest secondary school to Welwyn Garden City and then I went to Pitman’s College in London and at the same time the family moved to Amersham in Buckinghamshire. I was always very keen on horse riding and show jumping so that’ s where I spent most of my spare time in my youth. I did a secretarial course at Pitman’s College and also studied for my civil service exams, which I passed very well and went in, I chose the Air Ministry, my father told me I was very silly to do that. He was a civil servant, he knew better than me but I wanted to go into the Air Ministry. And then the Air Ministry split and was the Ministry of Aircraft Production which I went into. We spent our time typing out and preparing all these contracts for small firms to make Wellington bombers and Spitfires and Hurricanes a year at least before the war started. Then the war started and by that time I had met a very nice young man at Halton number 1 school of Aircraft Apprentices and he was passing out that year and he was sergeant apprentice and he, when the war occurred, he went straight over to France with the British Expeditionary Force, he was a fitter of course, and then managed to escape back from a French fishing village, on a French small fishing boat back to Folkestone and as soon as he got back to Britain, he, then we were, the Battle of Britain had started and we were very short of pilots for all our new aircraft, fighter aircraft and he trained as a Hurricane pilot and sadly he was shot down in the Battle of Britain. I wanted to go into the Air Force straight away, into the WAAF, but my father wouldn’t let me, he said, no, not until you are twenty one, why that magical number? I got in at twenty in the beginning of 1942 and I wanted to be a flight mechanic or a radio operator but of course they conned me and they said that you’re already trained and you’ll save your country such a lot of money [laughs] and so I went in as a secretary and all I did was my two months training at Innsworth Camp with thousands of other girls, usual routine, learning to march, to salute and hygiene and air force laundry, marches. And there were no mirrors on our training station so we had to learn to do our hair, put our make-up on and put our caps on and tie our ties without anything other than your little compact mirror and that was a bit of a thing. Anyway, I was posted to number 27 OTU Lichfield and I wanted to be in Fighter Command, now I was going to Bomber Command. Anyway, I arrived at 27 OTU and I found out what a lovely station it was, friendly and happy. And, [sighs] I became secretary to the Chief Flying Instructor Wing Commander Jackson, he was a South African and he’d done his first tour on Hampdens and I, my office was part of the orderly room, training wing orderly room down in flying control on the edge of the air field and I was stunned when I used to see all these young officers and flight sergeants and warrant officers coming in, all the instructors coming into our office, I was strapped dumb and they were all decorated and they’d all done their ops on Wellingtons and Hams, not Wellingtons, Hampdens and another aircraft, we used to call them coffin boxes, Hampdens, can’t think of the other one, uhm, and I was so naive and young, all these young heroes coming in, breezing in, and of course I quickly learned all the slang, you know, di digitate and you’re in the fertilizer business and [laughs] so on and so on, the prangs and they really did say jolly good show when they came in up to doing something [laughs], well, uhm, so, the Waafery was two miles down the road, uhm, I think it was a place, a little village called Streethay, it was on the main road and it was two miles away and it was surrounded by high barb wire fencing and sentries at the gate and I remember, some of the aircrew boys saying: ‘Why do they, why do they surround your place as if it’s like a prison?’ and I used to tell all the Aussies: ‘To keep you randy Aussies out’. We had a little pub called the Anchor, a tiny little pub that had been a coaching inn and it was just, all about a quarter of a mile down the road from our camp and, of course we were all armed [?], we were all given service bikes, we could all ride a bike because we had to ride to and fro to camp and coming down on summer evenings, especially when I was first there, lot of the girls used to stop and go in for half a pint of beer before they went in for their tea [laughs]. Oh, I was so pure and innocent, it took me six months before I set my first footstep, I’d never been in a pub in my life, [laughs]. Anyway we used to go into the Anchor a lot for a quick drink and also of course on the nights in the winter, when night flying was cancelled, when it was thick pea souper fog or rain streaming down, you couldn’t see an inch before you, we all used to wait around in our hut after we’d had our tea at night and suddenly over the tannoy the message would come: all night flying cancelled, all night flying scrubbed, over and out. And we’d all say whoopee and get the curlers out and put all the glamour on, those were the days of big pink rouge cheeks and thick horrible makeup called powder cream, we used to plaster all over our spotty faces and big cupids bow lips bright red and mascara [?], which came in little black blocks and you spat on it and rubbed it with a little brush, and thickly coated your eyelashes. The trouble was it wasn’t waterproof so if you went to the pictures and it was a sad film you, also all the girls came out with streaks of black down their cheeks [laughs], we’d all be trying to wipe of our black tears. Uh, we had a lot of fun in the Hut 2 and, as I say, we used to put all our makeup on and then best blue and dash down to the pub and then we’d wait there, we’d order our drinks, just half a pint of beer and you’d hear all the boys coming down and all the bikes going bang, bang, bang on the pub wall and they’d all come streaming in and in half an hour the whole place would be a thick fug, you could hardly see across the room, cigarette smoke and I always remember cigarette smoke and all the wet wall, there was always a big fire on in the lounge bar and the piano, oh, piano would be going like mad with all the songs getting naughtier and naughtier as the night went on [laughs]. And it was good because these boys were doing their, they were doing their operational training, they were, they’d come from all their various schools, pilots from their flying school, wireless school, gunnery and they’d come together and they’d been put in big room and told to make up a crew of five which would be pilot, navigator, wireless operator, he was also a gunner, uh, a gunner and a bomb-aimer and they would then convert onto Wellington, twin-engine bombers, the good old Wellingtons which were nicknamed Wimpies, they were, they were going up doing circuits and bumps all day and all night and it’s all very well, I was shattered actually when I got there, because the number of accidents in training was shocking during the war and I don’t think a lot of civilians, I didn’t think there were going to be all these terrible accidents and my first job, as soon as I settled into my, into my office, my first job was to type out a form 765C, I think five copies I had to do, you had to do five copies, one went to Bomber Command, one went to Group Headquarters, one went somewhere else and this particular form 765C, which was an accident report form for Bomber Command, it was a Cat E, and Cat E was total wreck all crew killed, it started with Cat E which was just nothing, you know, somebody knocked a, knocked a whole in a [unclear] or something like that, but the Cat Es were all full and of course when I’d done that and send that off and I was appalled cause I said to the sergeant in charge of the orderly room: ‘Does this happen often?’. ‘Oh, yes’ he said turning to me, he said, ‘Oh, we’ve had one accident, we should have another two in the next week’. Sure enough we did and next day I, and next morning I, after I’d done the general correspondence with the Chief Flying Instructor, the CFI, I had to go and sit down and we did letters of condolence to the various parents and wives and I know there were two Australian families and I thought how dreadful, all those miles away and I suppose no air mail, so I suppose in five weeks, will take five weeks for the letters to get to the parents somewhere in the outback of Australia and it just hit home, the war really came home to me in those first few days at my new station. And I was to see a lot of very nasty accidents and I think you know there’s always, it always makes me shudder now when I hear of a bad accident to a large airliner, you think of the horrible noise and the smell and that sort of vile cloud of black, black grey smoke and then the dark red flames going up and I’d seen dead bodies being carried out of planes and it’s so terrible and it did happen so often and of course we were very near the Peak District, Staffordshire, Derbyshire was the next door county and of course the Peak District and the boys did their night flying training in all weathers, terrible weather in full blackout and there they were flying around with all the peaks not very far distant and all the, all the Welsh mountains not very far away so, we had quite a lot of accidents hitting mountains. There used to be a comical character, in a magazine which was circulated to the air crew every so often and there was a little pilot called PO Prune and he was always saying: ‘Do not come down to sea!’ and he always held his finger in the air and that was called the irremovable digit [laughs] and he was always telling people all the things they, all the aircrew telling them what they must look out for and what they mustn’t do and constantly it was: ‘Do not come down to sea!’ Never come down lower than a certain height. And life went on very smoothly at 27 OTU. I remember, uhm, I turned twenty one of course at the end of that year, on New Year’s Day 1943 and there was, on Saint Valentine’s Eve there was a WAAF dance. Morale had been bad among the WAAF at that time because we’d had an awful lot of accidents, one girl had lost her young husband only a few months married, several girls had had bad news from their boyfriends in Africa because at that time our tanks, it was the first time when our tanks were being pushed back by Rommel and there was bad news from all our various fronts and the U-boats were having a feast downing our convoys, rations were being tightened for civilians, it was a very bad time, so, all the officers, and our WAAF officers decided, have a dance, I think it was the, our WAAF, the WAAF was formed in 1938 or ’39 just before the war and it was an anniversary for the WAAF and of course we couldn’t be allowed to wear civilian clothes, you weren’t allowed to wear civilian clothes, you had to be in uniform all the time. So, they got round that by saying, we’ll have a fancy dress dance for the WAAF, not for the airmen, the airmen have to come in uniform for the girls. So, we all rushed home, if we had a 36 hour or 48 hour leave, we all rushed home and said to our mothers, what have we got, got all the bits out, my mother dyed some spare cloth, she dyed one lot red and made me a very full skirt and then she found a bit of blackout curtain and made a little bodies and the boys in the dope shop painted a sickle and hammer on it, cause they were, the Russians were our gallant allies in those days and I’d also I got a little [unclear] in civilian life, a little, pretty little embroidered blouse, Hungarian blouse. So I went as a Russian peasant and my aunt had given me a beautiful silk Japanese kimono which she had before the war, it was a really beautiful thing. And my best friend, Hibbie, Brenda was her real name, Hibbie was dark-haired and very petite and I lent this kimono to Hibbie and she did her hair up with a comb in it and went as a Japanese girl, a horrible [unclear] [laughs] and so we all got it, we were told to get in the transport, we could go in our fancy dress and we were all glamourized that, we’d had all our hair set, we’ve had to get in the transport in order to go up to main camp but we had to take our uniforms with us to, to camp, so that we came home, back to camp in uniform. Anyway, we got up to the big NAAFI on the main camp and the station band which was very good started to play and the boys came in and we were dancing and a couple of young men came in and they, they were just in working gear, with scarves round their neck. They walked over to the bar, meanwhile ten of us had coloured a huge table near the bar, so, we were all there, sitting and chatting and these two young airmen came along and the older said; ‘Hello, girls, can we sit with you?’ And I said: ‘Oh, yes’. And they dragged out the young man along, she seemed very shy, blushing about being among with all us girls, anyway this was to be, this was my husband-to-be and he didn’t ask me to dance and I was getting up and dancing with all these other boys and then I said: ‘Don’t you like me or don’t you think I can dance very well?’ He said: ‘I can’t dance, he said, I’ve never danced in my life, he said, there’s a boy in our hut being trying to teach some of us to dance but, he said, I come from the isle of Lewis, and we are free Presbyterians, we are Calvinists, and we believe dancing is very sinful’. But he said: ‘I don’t’. And he said: ‘I’d like to learn to dance’. He said: ‘Will you dance with me now?’ So, he danced with me and trod all over my feet, he was such a, oh, he had lovely blue eyes and he was a very nice boy with that beautiful Highland accent, very soft and of course I really fell for him and he said, so after the last waltz we, he said to me: ‘May I see you at to transport?’ I said, ‘Oh yes’, I said, ‘You have to wait outside because we’ve all got to change back into our uniforms’. So we go into another room, change back and I found that I got all my uniform there except that I hadn’t got my, we didn’t have suspender belts in those days, we had corsets and [laughs] large, pink corsets with suspenders on the end and I found I left my back at camp. So, I put my stockings on, I went out to transport, I was holding my skirt with my stockings up and there is this nice boy waiting for me and eventually, you know, after we all chit chatting and talking, the driver said: ‘Get in girls!’. So, he said: ‘May I kiss you goodnight?’ and I said: ‘Oh, yes!’ and I put my arms up around his neck and my stockings fell down [laughs] and so obviously it must, it must have been ordained that this would be my future husband. Oh, we only had five dates before he went off, he was a fitter on our camp, and we had five dates and he went off for his aircrew training and the young man and the older man who’d introduced him to us girls was Norman Jackson, who went on, he went off on the flight engineers course too, he was a fitter. And he went on to win the VC, he climbed out on the wing of his burning plane, he stuck a fire extinguisher into his tunic and climbed out and the other men were sort of holding onto his parachute pack and then a flame [unclear], he managed to put most of the fire out but the flames blew back all across his face and hands and unfortunately in all the shemozzle, well the fire extinguisher of course went, fell off the plane and but his parachute started to open so he had to go off, they couldn’t drag him back and he was a POW. The Germans cared for him pretty well but years later, apparently he worked, somebody told us that he worked in a high class Rolls Royce showroom selling Rolls Royce, he probably would be helped after the war, but he was a prisoner of war for a long time. Uhm, no, from about 1943 to 5 and uh, unfortunately we tried to get in touch but it was very difficult after the war, everything was in such a muddle and we never got the chance to meet him again. And, so, Jock wanted me to be his steady girlfriend but most of us WAAF didn’t like, didn’t like to be, it was the boys who wanted to be serious but we didn’t like to be serious with any of them or getting, most of us didn’t want to get engaged or married because we all felt with aircrew that once they got married or they were engaged, they were, they became very serious and much more careful and it was, we all felt talking to aircrew boys that it was the worst thing to be very careful, it was far better to be gung-ho and able to take risks than, and not have to think about a wife or a serious girlfriend. But I wrote to him the whole time he was on ops, I didn’t see him for eighteen months, I wrote him the whole time he was on ops, and I’ve got most of his letters and unfortunately he hasn’t, he didn’t, he couldn’t keep many of mine because most of them threw letters away, personal letters were thrown away. Uhm, aircrew on ops, it wasn’t a wise thing to keep anything from love life or anything like because if you were killed or taken prisoner, the RAF police went in and put everything into, uhm, boxes and all that was sent to the parents and sometimes, or wives, and sometimes it was far better that certain things weren’t known. So, I mean, you know, even things like condoms, they were told not to keep in their lockers and things like that because of the attitude in those days. So, uhm, eventually in 1945, I was posted to 3 and 5 Group at Grantham, the top groups which commanded the operational squadrons and we were working in a large country house on the edge of Grantham and we were billeted in a lovely old Edwardian house right in the middle of Grantham, not far from the Great North Road which ran through Grantham at that time. And it turns out, when I was reading the biography of Bomber Harris, when he was a young air commodore at the beginning of the war, that was his living quarters, his house with his wife and young daughter and they, eventually it was withdrawn as living quarters for RAF officers and became the living quarters for mainly the clerical and secretarial staff and actually discipline was very easy in the house, this was the place where we were living, uhm, because we were all very trustworthy women who’d worked as personal secretaries all the war and so were trusted to go and come without having to book in or book out. So, I knew I’d been keeping in touch with Jock and I knew by then he’d finished his tour of ops and he was a fighter engineer instructor at Woolfox Lodge, just down the Main North Road and he’d got a motorbike and so I said, you know, I said, he said, you know, did I feel like taking up the friendship again, and I said if he was interested, yes, fine. So, he came up on his motorbike to Grantham and we renewed our friendship, which of course brought something to our romance and we married at the end of 1945, once all the, when the war was over. But, to go back to Lichfield, I would have gone on Lichfield, unfortunately my very nice Chief Flying Instructor boss went back to do a second tour of ops so I was getting some, I was going to work for someone else. But sadly he went back on ops and he lost his life, his plane crashed over Germany and he lost his life and it was very sad because he’d married an English girl and he had two lovely children because I used to, when there were officers mess dances, I used to go and babysit for him, cause I always felt, I always used to sit next to him in his car when I was taken out to his house. [unclear] for the night and I used to feel like a queen sitting next to a senior officer [laughs] going past the guards [laughs] and they were all saluting [laughs] and so I used to look after the children and then he, and I’d have breakfast with them and he’d go, we’d go back to camp next morning. But very sadly, we were moved from our nice wooden house, we were moved into new Nissen huts, this was when conscription came in for women at the end of 1942 or the beginning of 1943 and we really suddenly became inundated with all these conscripted women, they hated us, we hated them, we were volunteers, they were conscripts, and they didn’t want to be in the services and we made it clear that we wanted to win the war and we were going to win the war [laughs] and so on. Anyway, we were moved to new Nissen huts, which had been built in the winter and were still, the concrete floors were still very damp and it was terribly, terribly cold, I know, we discarded our sheets and used to sleep between blankets and we put on our pullovers and our slacks over our WAAF pyjamas, which were nice and warm and thick but still not thick enough and we heat bricks up and wrap them in newspaper or old bits of cloth to put in the bed and even so in the morning your breath used to be frozen, right down the blanket, a little icicle. Anyway it was so cold, and I got flu and I didn’t do any, I got a cold and then it went into flu and I didn’t do anything about it and didn’t go sick, that went into bronchitis and the bronchitis very quickly turned into pneumonia and I was at work and I went all funny and they had to get an ambulance to take me to sick quarters and I must have been very ill because they put me in a private room which was normally kept for officers and I was wrapped in the officers white blanket because if I’d been, other ranks blankets would have been grey [laughs] and they gave me the new miracle drug, MB363 or some, it was a new sulphanilamide drug and it worked wonders on pneumonia and I was sick for, very sick for a few days and then eventually I lost my voice and I was sent down to Waafsey quarters to convalesce and in Waafsey quarters they had a dreadful sergeant, a woman sergeant, a WAAF sergeant in charge and she used to have all us patients up every morning, we had to get on our hands and knees in our pyjamas and polish the floors [laughs]. I couldn’t speak [laughs]. We had a little wind-up gramophone in sick quarters and the only record we had was some well-known singer of the day singing, we’re having a heatwave, a tropical heatwave, it isn’t surprising, the temperature’s rising, she certainly can, can, can [singing] [laughs]. We played it and played it and played it. So then I went back to work but by then my boss had gone and the senior medical officer decided that I’d been so sick and I’d also had a lot of very nasty boils and said really you should have a series of injections for vitamin B but unfortunately vitamin B is kept for aircrew only so I can’t give it to you, and he said, I’m going to do the very next best thing, he said, I’m going to arrange a posting to group headquarters and he said you’ll have much better food, you’ll get fruit and he said you will be in much better quarters, but of course when I went to group headquarters it was all very nice but no aircrew, no any young men. The only thing was, we had a big Canadian Bomber Command station not far from us and a huge American camp so we used to go to the American camp and that was the first time we saw, for several years that we saw oranges and ice cream, they gave us ice cream [unclear]. But to go back to Lichfield, before I leave Lichfield to go to 93 Group Headquarters in Derbyshire, I must tell of the most exciting thing that happened to all of us and that was our station taking part in the first thousand bomber raid on Cologne, I think it was the 30th, 31st of May 1942 and that was very exciting, I mean, we didn’t know where, that the target would be Cologne but we all knew something big was on. Apparently, I’ve read all about the thousand plan but at first poor old Bomber Harris thought [unclear] make the bombers because the Coastal Command was going to be in it and their bombers were going to take part and the navy bombers, but at the last minute the navy and coastal or they say so, Coastal Command withdrew so we were left with less than a thousand bombers and Bomber Harris said they must: ‘Churchill had said it must be’, and Bomber Harris said it must be a thousand bombers so they racked in all the training stations and every screen was allotted a crew and so cause always at the end of OTU training the aircrews always went on things called bulls eyes [?] or light tight raids just over the coast of France either to straf, shipping or to drop leaflets and just over the coast and then back again, to give the young aircrew a taste of what it would be like but now we were going to have everything, uhm, every crew we could put, even if they were going with an instructor, the screen instructors and so, of course our poor old Wimpies, I mean, all those operational training units, all the heavy conversion units, the aircraft were already second hand, they’d all been used on operational flying, they’d all been used and abused I mean, you, when you talked to a flight engineer as my husband was, they were running those engines very often at revs never put down in the makers note and they came to the instructional units, and they were pretty knocked about a lot of them, a lot of them been hit and repaired and they weren’t very good and that’s probably what caused a lot of the training accidents. And so of course my husband, cause I didn’t know him in those days but than I knew, but I knew all the mechanics, all flight mechanics and fitters were working all around the clock to get service for aircraft and aircraft were taking up on their tests and then repaired again and again, the, don’t you want to stop [whispers]?
AP: No, no, you’re alright.
JS: And then they, then the uhm.
AP: But I will get you to move the microphone if you can, slip down [laughs] it was fine as long as you put your hands on [laughs]. There.
JS: Then, uhm, the uhm, so, they were very, very busy and we knew, because our, the control tower was next to K2 Hangar where my future husband worked and we knew where they were working cause we very often worked very late at night and you could hear all the noise and claying in the hangars and so we didn’t know the actual date until the actual date occurred the 30th of May and suddenly all, everybody was called on deck, everyone, you were just told to do all sorts of jobs, I know I was giving out sealed maps to the navigators and the pilots and we were getting all sorts of things together, all the Red Cross, the Australian Red Cross used to send wonderful parcels across, and the Aussie boys used to share, all the RAAF boys always shared their Red Cross parcels which were marvellous, full of all sorts of goodies and we were getting all those things ready and there were planes obviously being air tested and the whole station was busy with people, all with very definite looks in their eyes, all going about our business, sort of, with a lot of extra jobs to do and wherever you walked on the station normally when planes were bombed up, you wouldn’t see any bombs because they’d just be out of dispersals, but there were bomb trolleys everywhere, you were weaving your bikes all among all the different things, keeping a wary eye on the incendiary bomb boxes, which were painted red because if incendiaries fell off and the box broke open, the incendiaries could, they were very touchy and could often go off and you know, they were very dangerous. So, then of course the boys went for briefing and we were all hanging about, we had, I remember we had our tea and everyone, everyone was very quiet, very serious, the whole station. Of course, when there’s any big operations on the station is closed down and there is no leave and there’s no out coming or incoming personal phone calls or anything like that. So, we were all very busy, doing our various jobs and then I remember after briefing, they all came into the, into our big room in training wing and we were giving out the various, you know, chewing gum, barley sugars, cake, all sort of, parcels and things, cigarettes and off they went. We all had our quick tea and a whole host of us went down to wave them off, and I always remember that night, quite a mass of people were all standing underneath the balcony of flying control and all the top brass of the station, all the senior officers who weren’t flying men were above us, they were all out on the balcony and all the flying men, they were all in the planes, they were all been allotted to [unclear] crews and the three Padres all went, [unclear] and other denominations, Padres, they all went off choice and quite a few of our senior officers, who were ground staff chose to go with the crews, they said they backed them up and they wanted to go, you know, to give them heart as someone was there with them and we heard the first, to see a station, I’d never been on an operational station but my husband’s told me a lot about it but to see these planes or to hear them going, you know, we were standing there and of course always bombers during the war were around in dispersals, all dispersed around the airfield and you’d hear that coughing and choking sound of each engine starting up and revving up and then slowly, slowly. It was a rule that they mustn’t taxi fast because during the war all our rubber came from, well, what’s Malaysia and Indonesia now and of course rubber was very difficult to get and actually it hit the Germans more because of, you know, we were downing any German ships trying to get rubber, they couldn’t know they couldn’t get rubber because it was still British and but all aircraft, all aircrew were told to taxi slowly, because if you taxied fast it wore the rubber out more quickly. We were told that with our bikes, that we must only put our bikes into the bike racks with the rear wheel because if we put the front wheel in, it wobbled about and wore the rubber out [laughs]. All these silly things that happened during the war [laughs]. Uhm, so, then the, the first aircraft came weaving down past the control tower and I always remember the pilots window open and seeing the pilots face, each pilots face white in and his helmet faming [?] his face and he waved to all of us and, as they went slowly past, and we all gave thumbs up and he gave thumbs up and then slammed the window too and they went along to the runway, the end of the runway which wasn’t far away from us and of course they revved up each engine, one must be like a four-engine bomber station where they ramped each engine up to shrieking and you could see, you could see in the dusk, you could see all the dust and leaves and twigs flying and then of course they’d get a green from the airfield control and the caravan down at the end of the airfield and each one revved up and they took all the whole of the runway to get off to clear the hedge at the far end and almost before they were over the hedge, the next one was going down the runway, you know, heavily loaden with bombs and oxygen and high octane fuel, a living bomb themselves and we were all waving and we stood there long after the ground crew had put out the flarepath and long after the dim lights on the balcony had gone out off and all the officers had gone in, we all stood there, sort of not speaking, you know. And next morning of course lying in beds, you know, when the dawn was breaking, we were lying in bed, a lot of us hadn’t slept much that night, hearing the first faint roar of the aircraft coming back and counting back, we only lost one aircraft and they were actually, they had gone to another station, we were lucky but several of our aircraft had to turn back, cause that was the trouble on the training stations, Harris did get his, he got just over a thousand but actually before they got to the enemy coast some were turning back and I mean, once one engine goes in a Wimpey, you know you can’t go on. And of course, you know, we were lucky as I say, we, I and my friend who worked in training, when we dashed down on our bikes before breakfast to go and have a look, I think we run up to Flying Control, up the stairs to Flying Control to have a look at the big board to see who was back and that was quite an exciting night and so, and of course later on Jock told me all about, you know, his operational life and he had some exciting times. But, I went on to, Group Headquarters and of course you were working for senior officers, uhm, there were just one or two flight lieutenants, most of them were squadron leaders, ah, and of course you had air vice-marshals, all the people with the mess of scrambled egg on their caps and you were doing some, we were doing very secret stuff actually at that time and because of course, when I was at, yes, it was, 1945, yes, that was when I, that was when D-Day occurred and we all knew, because they cancelled long before D-Day, they cancelled all long leaves, all seven, fourteen day leaves and even forty eight hours weren’t very, weren’t given out very much. I was lucky, I wasn’t very far from my home and my home was by then in Buxton in Derbyshire because my father was in the civil service and he was in the customs & excise on the Board of Trade, and they were evacuated out to Buxton in Derbyshire. A lot of places, Ministry of Aircraft Production, were evacuated to Harrogate, all the non-military, there only be the Air Ministry, Admiralty, War Office, the Home Office, Colonial Office and, well, the Foreign Office, they were the only ones that stayed in London. All the other departments went out in case of being bombed, so, my dad’s office was in the big Palace Hotel, the biggest hotel in, uhm, in Buxton in Derbyshire and which is a beautiful place and so I wasn’t, when I was at Group Headquarters I wasn’t very far away. I could hitchhike to Derby and get a train to Buxton, so I was lucky I could get home for thirty six hours, but, I, uhm, for D-Day we all knew something was afoot but nobody, I don’t know why none of us put two and two together that it would be D-Day and we were doing all sorts of things so we used to, when you are on duty at night you know we’d be sitting the, only two or three of us on duty and we’d be having to take lots of coded messages and stick them onto paper and they’d go to various officers and the tele printers would be chattering all night with stuff from Bomber Command mainly and of course, then of course we, I came down to early lunch on, actually on D-Day and I went into the airmen’s mess and there was this little huddle around a tiny little radio that they got in the corner of the mess and I said: ‘What’s going on?’ and they said: [makes a shushing sound] ‘it’s on!’ So we all got our ears together listening. And I, cause I was very interested actually and had been interested for a long time because, of course I’d moved up with my parents, I’d left the Ministry of Aircraft Production and I moved up to Buxton when they moved to Buxton in 1940 and, I’d worked for the, I’d had a job as a secretary, as a town clerk in the town hall and the junior clerk who was a year younger than me, he had to wait till he was called up, he was in the home guard, he had to wait till he was called up because his mother was a widow and he was sort of contributing to the family so he waited until he was called up and the non, the local government offices were like the civil service and some big firms. When men were called up, their service pay was made up to their civilian pay, what they were earning in their civilian pay by the civil service and they were very, that was very good, so he had good money all the time. And we used to go out together, I was doing, everybody did voluntary work during the war, my mother rolled bandages and made up, she rolled bandages and made up, she old dressing kits for the army in her spare time, my dad used to fire watch and I used to go and work in the services canteen at the town hall in, about three evenings a week, pouring cups of tea or stirring backed beans for all the troops, cause we had troops everywhere, every town was full of troops, and, this, my boyfriend Morris, he was in the home guard, so he used to come and pick me up after his guard duties on reservoirs and oil damps and so on and, walk me home and I was, he was called up and went into the West Yorkshire Regiment and for years, I mean, Jock knew all about my romance with Morris, and the West Yorks were one of the first, they were one of the first to go on D-Day onto the beaches for the British crowd and I always wondered how he’d got on and my friend across the road, my neighbour across the road, she does genealogy and she’s looked up a lot of my family for me and she looked up Morris for me and if he’s alright and he got through obviously and he married two years after me and they had a daughter. And, so that was nice to know. So, that was our D-Day excitement and then of course I went, I was posted on to 3 and 5 Group Headquarters at Grantham, where of course I met Jock again. And our romance took off but nothing was, I mean, it was very easy living and very easy working conditions at Grantham compared to what I’d had and the war was almost winding down then so we had a very easy time of it and eventually of course once D-Day came, oh yes, D-Day, not D-Day, once VE-Day came, oh, we’ve all danced in the streets, there were civilian women dancing in their nighties in the streets and the street lamps were put on, and of course they’d obviously been preparing for VE-Day because all the street lamps went on and Jock and I, we used to go to a little park in Grantham and we had a special seat and that was our Snogging Seat and [laughs] we used to kiss and cuddle and on our Snogging Seat and we were very put out, after we’ve been down singing, drinking and you know, all the boys, he and all the boys climbed up, they put, they climbed up on the town, Grantham town hall roof and one of the boys tied a pair of WAAF blackouts, twilights, pair of WAAF knickers on the flag staff, certainly weren’t mine and Jock and I went round to our little park and our Snogging seat was no good anymore because there was a big lamp above it and it was lit up [laughs]. So, that was that but, he of course, he did his ops on Stirlings, so, I don’t know if whether you’ve heard, the losses on Stirlings were terrible and whenever we met people after the war and he said he was on a Stirling Squadron, they said; ‘Well, you are one of the few to get through!’ And half way through his ops, they took them off quite a lot of bombing ops and they put onto dropping, uhm, sea mines mainly in the Baltic, up the Gironde Estuary and so on, and then, that was quite tricky stuff, the only two or three would go out, it was quite tricky stuff because those sea mines going down on parachutes of course they were very touchy and they have to be, you have to fly at a certain level so that they would drop into the sea and then they come up to a certain level in the sea and lie there under the sea. And of course, while he was doing that, while he was dropping all these mines in the Baltic and so on, his father, who had been in the Royal Navy during World War I and then he went back into the Royal navy in World War Two and he was on minesweepers off our coast, off the western of [unclear] and the Minch, he was minesweeping for the British convoys coming and going. So, he was sweeping them up and his son was sowing them, they were called gardening operations and so he, they were doing well and also they were dropping a lot of stuff to the Maquis, the French Maquis in the Alps and he said, that was a very leery thing because he remembers, you know, cause Stirlings hadn’t go the height, they couldn’t get the ceiling like the Lancaster could so you often had to fly through gorges, these alpine gorges and he said, very often wingtip to wingtip you’d see this black icy glassy rock each sideof the wingtips and quite a lot of aircraft of course got smashed up in those gorges. And they also dropped to the Maquis, he had a quite an exciting experience, once they were quite high up in the Alps and they had just signalled and they received a torch signal back from the Maquis and they were coming to drop their, they had a lot of stuff including a Gee, of course it was always a flight engineer and a bomb aimer who were pushing it out in a big hatch, they had a special hatch who pushed all the stuff out and they were coming down in a steep curve and suddenly the floodlights, the searchlights went on and guns started, obviously the Germans were waiting for them and because they just went straight up, they took off and went off but he said he always wondered how the poor devils on the ground got on. And they did quite a lot of that sort of thing and they had, they were, they had a nasty time when they took off one night and the plane had been going, they’d been up all day, they’d headed up and down on air test and as they took off, one engine failed as they were taking off and they carried on, I mean three engines were, the Stirling was a tough plane, even though it couldn’t get the height, but second engine failed as they went over the end of the runway, and then the third engine started coughing and it was wintertime and there was a ploughed field next to the airfield, I mean they got a full bombload and the pilot said to Jock the engineer, he said; ‘I’ll have to go in’ and shouted out crash, you know, crash positions and they went in and he, Jock was up with the pilot, he was up in the cock pit and he said, all the earth, we went nose, he said, all the earth came over the cockpit but, he said, fortunately, he said, the little escape hatch so, he said, the pilot went out there and I went out the back and got out and we all got out and he’d expected the bombs to go off but nothing happened. So they were very fortunate and one [unclear] them was, see they’d had problems with this particular aircraft several other times and they had actually come back, they didn’t, I think they’d only returned twice with a bum aircraft and then this crash, and one the engineers, warrant officers came up to them and said: ‘Uh, yellow aye!’ and apparently he got roasted because they found out this aircraft was in a bad condition but it still went on flying and we were very interested because I think the Bomber Command War Diaries gives a detail of every aircraft that flew. And Jock was really through one day and he said, Jean, he said, this is so interesting, apparently it was sent off to a Heavy Conversion Unit and it only did two flights and then it disappeared somewhere over the coast of Ireland, the west coast of Ireland out to the Atlantic it disappeared with the crew, the [unclear] crew and never seen or heard of again, so obviously it was still playing out. He said there were always bum aircraft, lemons, like cars and but they were very lucky to get out of that. And then another time they were on their way to target and they were hit by cannon shell and an Me 109 went underneath them, obviously aiming for the engine, hit the starboard side, blew his flight engineer’s panel out and, cause all the lights, everything went out, and shrapnel flying around and this great big jagged hole and you could see the starboard engine and he was a bit stunned and he said: ‘I couldn’t breathe’ and he said: ‘I could feel this something warm dripping down my back’ and but he said, ‘it didn’t hurt, he said, my knee hurt’, he had got shrapnel, small shrapnel splinters in his knee and but he said, the navigator was groaning and he said, as soon as I sort of pulled myself together, the pilot was checking the crew round, fortunately the intercom was still working and he said, ‘engineer, are you ok?’ and Jock said; ‘I think so, I can’t breathe’. He said: ‘I’ll check’. Well, he found, he got a hydraulic pipe blown around his neck and that was what was dripping hot oil down his back, not blood [laughs] and his, a big lump of shrapnel had hit his parachute, bent his parachute buckle, harness buckle, perhaps bent it and set his Mae West off, that’s why he couldn’t breathe [laughs]. And it had wicker shade and gone, made a real mess, gone right into the groin of the navigator, I mean, the navigator sitting right behind the black curtain, you know, quite nice and all, nice and protected from anything nasty and he was the one who was the worst hit, well, he, Jock grabbed the first aid kit and he went straight up over and he, the navigator was in a really bad way and Jock gave him, cause they all had whole series of small morphines, he gave him morphine and cut and sliced his trousers and put a big shell dressing on his wound, he was and sort of dragged him to a lying down position and then he went to the wireless operator whose poor right hand was pouring blood and he said to him, he said to, don’t give me morphine, he said, cause he practiced Morse with his left hand, he said I’m carrying you on, he said, I don’t want to have morphine and go out to the wood, just shove a shell dressing on this and actually it was worse than it looked actually when they got back but they were still on their way to target so they were among a whole stream of bombers, it was very difficult turning round in a stream of bombers and the pilot said to Jock, he said, engineer, how is our fuel situation? Of course by that time Jock was checking with the torch what was left of his dials and switches and he said, can we get to target and back? As long as we have enough to get back home. And Jock said, that was the time I turned from a boy into a man [laughs] and he said, yes, so they went on and bombed and came back and they landed with very little fuel and the navigator of course went straight to hospital. The wireless op only had a week or two off, his wounds healed and, oh, Jock had only dressings put on his knee. But the others were ok, but, you know, see, they had no officer in their crew and actually that would have warranted in many crews that would have got a DFC or DFM for the [unclear] but DFM was not given out in great numbers and having no officer to sign it all because, yes, that’s it, the navigator was the only officer and of course he was in hospital so he wouldn’t be, he was unconscious by the time, so he wouldn’t have been able to write anything else, that sort of put the kibosh on any medal for the crew but I mean that was quite something I thought to go on to target and then come back. But that went on, as they all, oh you talked to a lot of the aircrew and I mean, that went on, there were so many crews that went west, that should have got medals, you know, for what they did. And, so he was very pleased and actually if he hadn’t died when he did, he would have, he did qualify for the French [unclear] again because he was flying, they did their last two ops just before, just on D-Day, they came, their last operation was on D-Day and that was another well-kept, that was a such a well-kept secret, I mean, the aircrew didn’t know, it went out that night, and they were given targets north of Normandy and they were dropping all these funny little sacking parachuters, which had firecrackers on them, so when they landed, it sounded as if they were firing shots and they dropped them, there a quite a lot of planes dropped them in various parts of Northern France and a lot of Germans did think that that was where the invasion was taking place and of course they went out, I think it was after midnight, cause it was only just into France, and they came back just as dawn was breaking and Jock was busy at his dials and only the pilot, the pilot must have looked down and he said: ‘Oh, boy, it is on!’ and he said, we all rushed and had a look and he said; ‘What a wall of ships!’ he said it the most amazing sight, he said, it send cold shivers down their backs and they’d also gone out and been minelaying a couple of nights before in the Gironde Estuary and he said, that was a terrible place for being armed, and he said, only three Stirlings went and he said their’s was the first to go in and of course they dropped these sea mines which are touchy even in the aircraft, you know, can go off and he said he looked round and his great friend was in the next aircraft, and was hit, went up and then the third bomb went up, so, they’d been given a route to come home across the South of France and then across the Channel, but the pilot had him put the nose down and went out in the [unclear], into the Atlantic and they came in through, came back through Cornwall [laughs], they didn’t want to know any more having lost their team mates [laughs].
AP: Ah yeah.
JS: But they often used to come, cause they laughed after they hit the target, they loved finding trains to shot up and any roadways and shot up any convoys and anything and they’ve would come back with bits of haystack and leaves of trees and [unclear] but the Stirling was, he used to say cause eventually he went on and became a flight engineer instructor on Lancasters and he said, yes, they were, they were wonderful aircraft cause they could do the distance, they could carry the arms but he said, he said, our Lancaster wouldn’t have survived that first crash with a full bombload, he said, they were beautifully built, he said, they were a lovely, comfortable aircraft and he said, they were so sturdy, and then they could fly very low, but how stupid of the Air Ministry to cut their wings of ten feet to get into the normal hangar, I mean why not build the odd hangar to conform to the wing? Say, were some funny things in the, there were some weird, weird things went on, you know, people with all sorts of suggestions and as I say, this front wheel of your bike, I was put on a charge cause I put the front wheel of my bike in, I was late on duty and I flung my front wheel of my bike in and the service police came round and of course you had a number on and tracked it to me and I was put on a charge! And I remember being marched in without my cap and of course was one of the officers I knew and worked for and he [unclear] said: ‘Now, what have you been up to?’ And the WAAF officer looked [unclear] [laughs]. There was a WAAF officer and someone along this sort of thing and he gave me three days jankers and I went down to the cookhouse cause normally you got all these filthy, big greasy ben maries [unclear], huge things, this big cooking greasy stuff, you’ve got them to clean out, but they said: ‘Oh, we’ve got nothing for you to do’ and they gave me some tea and cake [laughs]. It was a good laugh and it’s funny when we’re all, of course now I go into the Air Force Association and of course, we always go, my daughter and I always go to the Odd Bods November dinner and we meet up together and we, it’s, I mean, even for years all those old chaps and they were facing hell and you wondered how they had the nerve to do it and yet they all said: ‘Best years of our lives. Best years of our’, Jock said it, I said it, and I mean our living [unclear], I I’ve seen the ranks, living conditions and food was terrible and the living conditions were often awful and what you had to do. Cause we had, when we were at Lichfield we had to, at one period, probably be ’42, ’42 more than ’43, there was a lot of business, Germans were dropping odd parachutes, two or three parachuters and of course we had a fifth column of people who were Pro-Nazi, Fascists, some even before the war, Royal Family, you know, old Edward the 8th and his bird, you know, they were all quite Pro Hitler and, we, we were, that was when there had been attacks on planes, that was when they used to keep the planes all in a line or on tarmac and they started to put them down in dispersals, the ones that were in use, any spare ones would be dragged out and put on a farmers’, in farmers’ fields under the trees and we had a couple of Wellingtons near our Waafery, near the Waafery and we were asked, we were told to do guard duty and you’d, there’d be two or three of us and, I mean, it was so absurd, was at wintertime and we’d wear our gas capes which came neck to floor and airmen’s wellies so you had to ware about three pairs of socks, because you were in these great big wellies and our tin hats of course and gas mask respirators at the ready and we were armed because see, the WAAF, the Women’s Auxiliary Airforce, the auxiliary women, we couldn’t be forced to carry arms so we were armed with truncheons, there were three girls with truncheons and we’d be out in the rain and mud, parading round these Wimpeys, we opened the hatch, we used to open the hatch and get in and sit up in the pilot’s seat and, oh, I loved the smell of aircraft, so aircraft [laughs] and not long ago the RAF went to the museum at Moorabbin, you know it was so lovely to smell a real aircraft inside, those oils and petrol and everything and sometimes we’d have an airman with a rifle. And at the same time they also had, we had a mock invasion and all they, they didn’t know what to do with the WAAF because all the airmen had arms with, with blank, you know, ammunition, and they had thunder flashes and they were, there were two, there were the enemy and all the ones [unclear] and all the aircrew weren’t armed and they didn’t know what to do with the WAAF so they told us we had to go and sit in the toilets [laughs]. And I remember cause there were thunder flashes, being blasted out against the wall, just outside, cause they knew we were in the toilets and the others were chucking thunder flashes [laughs]. And we, we said, why can’t we be out among it all. Anyway, they, you know, we had all those sorts of funny things and at the same, around the same period, when there was a threat, a real threat of airfields being invaded and they said, if there’s a last minute stand [unclear] on parade one morning last minute stand, would any of you girls volunteer to learn to load Lee-Enfield rifles? And you would be at the back and the men would be throwing their rifles to you to reload, you’d be throwing back loaded rifles and so on and so on. Then we all stepped forward, everyone, we all wanted to carry arms, it was funny because some, quite a lot of men, especially the aircrew said, oh, they didn’t want women to carry arms, we were nice, gentle girls, women, we didn’t need to, what we wouldn’t have done to a German with a bayonet! We, I mean, my dad was in the army in World War I, and I always, you know, used to talk about bayonet charges and things. Anyway, we all learned, we learned to dismantle a Lee-Enfield rifle and to clean it and then we learned to arm it and so on, and then they said, the sergeant down the rifle range said: ‘Would any of you girls like to volunteer to fire a rifle?’ and we all stepped forward and he said: ‘Oh, there’s too many of you’, he said, ‘we only have five rounds each’ [laughs] at least we got to fire a Lee-Enfield rifle [laughs] and I came back with a big [unclear] [laughs]. But, I mean, we very always said that we couldn’t carry arms, it seemed ridiculous they had a whole army there of women who were dying to carry arms. The ATS, my sister in law, Jock’s young sister, she went into the ATS towards the end, she was called up and she went into the ATS and, but she was put in as a cook, they didn’t, as a conscript, they were just, you’ll be a cook, and they had a horrible time but a lot, some of the ATS girls they were our viewfinders on the keg guns but they didn’t fire the guns but they were, they were very good on the viewfinders and but we, we actually in WAAF actually had the best of the women services in the war, I think we worked alongside our main army, you known we were always there and among the aircrew and helping to do things and I mean, we had, you know, there were flying mechs and battery charges and girls they are all among working among the aircraft and we all ate together, we didn’t eat in separate messes, we ate in the airmen’s mess and, I mean, we did everything except sleep together. And some of the girls did [laughs] but, you know, I think we were much closer because the air forces is a nice service, you know, it's a sort of much more specialised and you get different type of person in the air force, I think. And I now belong to the Royal Naval Association, I’m only an associate member, a lot of us RAF people go to the Royal Naval Association which is only a [unclear], [unclear] or [unclear]. They were lucky, the naval people, cause like our RAF Squadrons and the RAAF were all on our squadrons so there was a great closeness between the RAF and the RAAF and the same with the navy, quite a lot our RNAF were in on British ships and there’s quite a closeness and cause they, they obviously got into, they got in with the ones down here, the naval people got down here, got in the British navy got in ex-services associations with the Cerberus crowd, and they bought a block of land and it’s a lovely big block and the Cerberus as a sort of war memorial put up this memorial building and it’s, it’s not huge but it’s got a large hall and big kitchen, toilets, and a bar and outside a big barbecue and it’s really nice and once a month they have a meal and they get together and of course there is always a Trafalgar Day in October, you go and we always have a big Nelson thing, and drink our toast and rum, tot of rum and apparently they British Navy send out every year, they send out this small keg of naval full strength rum which is, cause in the navy it was always, when everybody used to have rum everyday but it was always watered down, it’s very, very strong and they are still saying this Cerberus, this ex-service crowd, still send out, I don’t know how much longer they will do it, this rum and of course the air force crowd, we sit at one table and the navy crowd are so different to us, we are very prim and proper lot, we are behaved, cause they always make fun of us, sailors are very rough and the funny thing, their wives and so on, they all sit at tables on their own and the men all sit at tables whereas we’ve always air force have always been men and women together and they, they told us the first time on when we were invited first for Trafalgar Day and they said, you air force types, don’t stand when the royal toast and the toast to Nelson is said, because apparently in the old sailing ships not very much headroom, do you know, those sailing ships, tiny old sailing ships like Nelson was in and they had a complement of eight hundred, fourteen inches for a hammock, that’s where you slept, fourteen inches, you’ve [unclear] and I noticed that a lot of those ex-servicemen, the old chaps, they, there’s a lot of them missing fingers and arms and hands, quite and I mean, you don’t see this among air force crowd. Quite a lot of them have, you know, half an arm or several fingers off and obviously, you know, I suppose with their big guns and things, I suppose stuff and I don’t know anything much about the navy cause it’s only my, up in Lewis of course most of them go into the navy, there were only four men from the Isle of Lewis who went into the air force during the war, Jock had always wanted to fly since he was a little boy, he’d always wanted to fly, and I mean as a crafters son he got back his chance because there is not work up there and you know, money was small but most of the men went into the navy or the merchant navy and the only ones that went into the army would go into the Highland regiment, the Seaforth Highlanders in [unclear] cause he had two uncles who were pipers and his sister, one sister was called up into the ATS, his, other sister, his older sister, unfortunately she couldn’t pass the medical for the ATS cause she volunteered, and she went into the NAAFI, cause the NAAFI was a good backup, you know, they had those little vans and they had, ran the canteens and they were very, very good and you’d find each station would have its specialised, you know, cakes and things cause I knew at Lichfield they made beautiful [unclear] cakes and we always used to go out to the NAAFI event who did outside about 11, or 10, or 10.30, or 11, everyone used to go, everyone, officers and everyone used to go out with their mugs and you’d always say; ‘Tea and a wad!’ [?] [laughs] [unclear], pig lardy, heavy things, we were always hungry [laughs].
AP: Pretty good. Let’s have a look. You have spoken for an hour and twenty minutes without a break, that’s pretty impressive [laughs].
JS: [laughs] Well, I’ve got no one else to talk to!
AP:
JS: I’ve got the cat.
AP: You’ve got the cat.
JS: He’s lying on my bed in the bedroom.
AP: I’m more than happy to assist. You’re absolutely fascinating so far. Uhm,
JS: I talk too much.
AP: We love this sort of stuff, this is really, really good.
JS: But then, then my cousin, there was my cousin, now I’m talking about the Isle of Lewis and as I say, my husband he once he went to primary school and he won a scholarship which, living in the village where he lived, fifteen miles away from Stornoway, where the only secondary school on the island. He won a scholarship but there was no bus you had to board in town and his parents, this was during the Depression, his parents couldn’t afford the books because, sometimes scholarships had a living allowance for books, uniform and living out but there was nothing like that during that particular year, so he couldn’t go to secondary school and he, I mean, there was me, I had a grammar school education and I was a hopeless scholar, absolutely hopeless, the only thing I was ever good at was English and history, and I never got anywhere with anything until I went to Pitman’s College and then I come out here and I saw one of my daughters teachers, when she was at primary school, said to me, oh, you ought to study and become a teacher, because we were desperate for teachers, so I investigated and I did, I went through, did my GCSE and so on went up the exhibition building and did my HSC and did very well, it was totally different doing it as an adult. Well, I hadn’t got horses or boys, that’s a thing, the two loves of my, oh, I was a terrible flirt in the Air Force. I was a student, I’ve been a quiet, studious girl as I say horse mad and I got in the Air Force and I suddenly discovered men and I didn’t read a book, I had boyfriends galore, I found a little address book and all these addresses are Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, cause they all wanted you to write to them and we wrote letters to all, we’d sit on our beds and write letters to all these different boys you never saw again. But, I mean, love affairs were no sex, I mean to start with, VD, we were shown all these film of VD when we [unclear] training stations and that would put you off sex forever and if you were pregnant you were chucked out of the WAAF and you were never allowed, you could go back into the ATS if you’d had an illegitimate baby but you weren’t ever allowed back into the WAAF. Oh, we were very pure and high [?] but, uhm, cause Jock was shocked when I said, Oh, I said, the only thing that kept me a virgin was VD, the thought of VD and getting pregnant. And he said, oh, he said, I’m very disappointed in you, because I thought you had higher morals [laughs]. Well, I said, I didn’t want to get pregnant and I didn’t want to get VD.
AP: Oh dear.
JS: And when you’ve done the VD report for the station, for all the Czechs and the Poles, they were the worst. They used to have to go to Cosford once in a week to have these horrible, I won’t, well, you probably know what they used to, used to inject them with mercury and where but it was very painful apparently and we used to see the bus going and they all used to have their heads down and we used to see the bus going to Cosford once a week and we all used to go [laughs ironically], they all used to have their heads down [laughs]. And, as I say, I used to do the VD report and Lichfield had two satellite stations, Tatenhill and Church Broughton and they of course used to, uhm, they had Czechs and Poles. Now I mean, the Czechs and the Poles they were, they were so brave, oh, they hated, they loathed the Germans, they absolutely, as long as they could kill a German their happiest time but they were dreadful and of course in this VD report they had to say when they went to the MO and it was discovered, they had to fill in a form, they had to, legally didn’t have to give the name of the woman but they had to give where they, whereabouts they thought they contacted it, usually under a tree or in a field [laughs]. Contracted it, I should say. Or, and roughly the age, and the age could be anything, of the woman, I mean, they wouldn’t know, but the ages could be anything from fifteen to about seventy [laughs]. And of course, all the girls used when I was typing the VD report, all the girls used to come and look through the papers, weren’t supposed to [unclear] and titter and make very [unclear] remarks and, but they were the worst cause I and after the war I met several Polish, ex Polish airmen and I always used to say to Jock, oh, I don’t think I’d better shake hands with him [laughs]. And they were very nice people [laughs] so you know but we had men of every nationality you could think of at the service, you know, of the Commonwealth and so on you. We had lots of South Africans, New Zealanders. Now, the New Zealanders, they never had the funny accent they have nowadays, it’s funny, they spoke much more like Australian men. They didn’t have that funny twisted accent. I don’t’ know where they got that from, cause it’s really weird. And of course New Zealand, when we were going to emigrate, I wanted to go to Australia because I wanted to, we were living in Scotland and I wanted sunshine and of course all the.
AP: So you went to Melbourne [unclear]
JS: Of course, all the Aussies had told me what a wonderful country it was. Jock wanted to go to New Zealand because full of Highland, Gaelic-speaking Highland people and of course their Scottish country dancing is impeccable, similarly if you couldn’t go and of course they were only taking building, tradesmen or farm workers. So he, cause he’d gone back to his basic trade by then, he was maintenance engineer with British overseas, no, British European Airways. And he came out here, the old Australian National Airlines brought him out here cause they were so short of maintenance engineers so he saw it advertised, applied, they took him, brought him out six months ahead of me, cause they had hostels for me and, uh, so, when New Zealand was no good, he went down to London and applied to Canada house [?], he phoned me up and he said, we can be in Canada within three months and it was winter and I’d got flu and I, you know, I get, my nose was streaming, my eyes were streaming, I said, you’ll kill me if you take me to a country with all that snow and so he didn’t and so that’s why we applied for Australia and of course we’d read all these books about Australia and we decided, oh, the best place would be West Australia, the climate there was beautiful, Albany, and you know, the climate was supposed to be absolutely wonderful and cause ANA brought him out to Essendon aerodrome, so, he was Melbourne [laughs]. I remember when the first time we took the caravan up to Darwin and I’d only been in Darwin a couple of hours, and I said to Jock, Gee, how [unclear] would cost to move house and the furniture up here? Oh, I’d loved to have lived in Darwin. Cause Darwin years ago was lovely but the last time we went to Darwin it was, it had grown in population, it was very commercial but the first few years, when we used to take the caravan up North, it was lovely. This, and, people, all the young people used to stop, you know, older people and say: ‘Oh, hope you are going to stay up here, cause we, it was too many young people, we need some grandparent type people’. Have you always been in Melbourne?
AP: No, I’m from Sydney.
JS: Oh, your [laughs]
AP: Yeah, I came down from Sydney about five years ago for work. So.
JS: I’ve, you know, I’ve been through Sydney on the bridge, to go on the car, wiht the caravan, we’d been there over the, on the bridge and we’ve also been underneath.
AP: Oh yeah?
JS: And I’ve been to Sydney to change planes. I’ve never been to Sydney as a town.
AP: A lovely spot sometimes. Anyway, uhm, you were telling me before we started the tape, uhm, about something that was going on, one day when you were doing the, I think it was the group VD report about a certain squadron.
JS: Oh yeas, about that, about the.
AP: Yeah, so, can you tell us that story again for the benefit of the tape?
JS: Yes. God, what was it called the,
AP: Fauld.
JS: Oh yes, the Fauld, the day the Dam went up, yes it was in 1944 and it was the Fauld explosion and uhm, oh yes and I’d gone upstairs and was typing away at this huge, great big long-carriage and those long-carriage typewriters you never see them now, great big thing, very, very heavy and so I was typing away and it was this funny rumble that went through my feet, I have felt this funny and heard, we all stopped because it sounded like air raids and, we, it was only, must have been seconds, barely minutes and suddenly this rumble got bigger and my typewriter really big jammed, it went [makes a repeated booming noise] and I sort of set back and I looked at the dirty, green wall in front of me and there was this little crack and it started to open and it came down in a big curve and I just, I just watched it, cause funny it’s like when you’re in an air raid when you bombs and you tend to watch them, you’re sort of rooted to the spot. I mean I remember once was a terribly bad crash on our airfield at Lichfield and we were all in our office, we heard this terrible thud, screech, metal, you knew it was a crash, that metal noise and we looked out of the window, the side window and there’s this flame and it was sliding across the airfield, right out on the airfield, on the runway and it was beginning to slide straight towards training wing and we just stood there, we were just stood rooted to the spot. That was the time when, it was horrible. The operators see the girls at the radio while the radio operators took the planes up, and now the girls, they rushed to the window when this thing happened and they left us with the intercom switched on and of course, see, those Wellingtons you know were geodetic and they had axes along the body but obviously the boys were burning, the thing was a degrees of heat and they were screaming and you could hear it from above, you‘d hear the screams, it was horrible and we were rooted to the, I, everybody, nobody said a word, I mean, I, nobody passed out or anything like that, but it was really horrible and of course then the fire, cause naturally the blood wagon, the ambulance and the fire engine were always right beside flying control, they went straight out cause they got foam and it had stopped but it was a fact that it could actually, I mean if nothing had been done, it could have banged into our building. We were so struck with that and it was like that in that Fauld thing, and we were sitting, as I say, immediately somebody said, oh, there must be a bad air raid somewhere, funny we haven’t heard the sirens because often we did have [unclear] and I mean once our airfield was very lightly attacked by one aircraft and I mean, you’d simply, you’d, over the tannoy they’d simply say even before the sirens died you’d hear: ‘red alert, red alert’ and we’d always have our respirators with tin hats on our chairs and all you do is [unclear] your respirator on your shoulder, put your tin hat on and all fire alert, slip trenches outside, you’d run like hell once you got outside because you were scared and you’d, the slit trenches were so nasty because they’ve been used as toilets [laughs] by people going to a frat night they were very smelly and I know, a friend of ours, poor men, they jumped, he was the first one to jump into the slit trench and someone had obviously been doing the other business in there and when he got out, all the others came on top of him and he noticed and he was sitting there a nasty smell and when he got out, he found his knee, he’d gone straight into someone’s poo and he said he got a knife and cut his, he said, he couldn’t bare it [laughs]. Like poor Jock, one time on an air test and he was moving about the aircraft and they hit an air pocket cause they were low and [unclear] went up and he and the mid upper gunner were both, and they couldn’t move because of the way you are rooted you know in the planes and he said, he saw in slow motion [unclear] came over. They’re supposed to be emptied every trip and it all come over the two of them, [unclear], he said, we, he said I took my flying without equipment on a stick [laughs]. Oh God, he said, I went straight up to the showers, he said, I just showered in my uniform and then he said, I took that off and he said I was in the shower spitting it [laughs]. But and the mid upper gunner was the same, but poor old Charlie [unclear] but there was, it was always very pooey, very smelly in the, in the trenches because you’d sit there with your tin hats and things do fall on you, you’d hope no bomb would fall on you but, I mean, we weren’t like the fighter stations, they had it regularly, they were bombed regularly, down more on the coast down south we were, we were lucky we were in the Midlands but I mean along it was all Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, cause Jock’s Squadron he was 90 Squadron and they were in Suffolk. Cause they always used to rendezvous at Cromer Pier when they were went off, the you know when the whole gaggle of paints [?] were going out, they’d fly from their station and go up round and round to get height and then go straight out and they’d have some to rendezvous, Cromer Pier was a great place for a lot of them and others would, they’d get into formation and then they’d pick the other formations up, all up from all up the coast and we went to Cromer when we, one trip we had overseas in the 1970s I think, we went to Cromer and it was beautiful day because I know he was swimming in the North Sea and I, he said: ‘Oh, I’m lying here, look at me up!’ Thinking about me circling around over here before we went out, we’d stay off and went in from their area, they went in to France over the Frisian Islands. Cause he always said, I always put, as soon as the pilot said enemy coast ahead, he said that’s when I always pull my, he was always scared of his eyes being burned, you know, injured, and he said, I always pull my googles down cause some of them didn’t and got their eyes burned. He said, I was always terrified of getting my eyes burned. But he never, he still, you know, they had three pairs of gloves, silk and wool and then leather, but he nearly always worked with his silk gloves cause he was using bars and things and [pauses] but as I say, I still think, you know, but we probably don’t remember the nasty parts, you only think of the fun parts. When you say it was, it was the best years of our lives. I tell you why, because after the war it was so horrible. After the war we went back into Civvy Street and you had this awful feeling you weren’t wanted. See, people had, who’d been in fact prison officers [?], they’d all got jobs and they were looking after, this is my job and we don’t want you people coming in and move, you know, with all, you’ve got medals and we haven’t and so on and so on. And then the idea was that we should all forget the war, get on with the peace and everything was so grey and actually we were then more severely rationed, that was when bread was rationed and onions and potatoes. I cued for hours for all those things, because we were feeding Europe and particularly because we had to feed poor old Holland, cause they were starving but we were feeding the bloody Germans, that’s what got up our noses and we should have done what Joe Stalin said, Joe Stalin said at one big conference, he wanted Germany totally disarmed and made into the food bowl of Europe, got rid of those bloody Germans. I still hate them and I’ve got German blood in me, I’ve got Prussian, great grandfather. I still hate them like mad, I can’t forgive but then I was going to tell you about my cousin. Can I tell you about my cousin?
AP: You certainly can. [unclear]
JS: My cousin, there was another boy like my husband, he, now, his was a very sad story. His father, like my father and my father’s two sisters both married men during the war that were in the trenches. My sister Nora married this soldier and he ended up the war, after the Great War, in a lunatic asylum, he’d, he was shell shocked, absolutely shell shocked. And Nora always told her little boy Bill, who was born, she was married I think in 1916 and had him in 1917 and she told Bill, growing up, that his father was dead. And because in those days to be in a lunatic asylum, you know, was like having a baby illegitimately, it was one of these, you didn’t talk about those sort of things, Gee, woman had a Hysterectomy, that was women’s [unclear] and you didn’t mention that, everything was so, [makes a shushing sound] proper, and anyway poor Bill, he grew up. Uhm, Nora went and when my grandfather was widowed, he went up to Lancashire or Derbyshire, where he’d come from and he opened a little corner shop and Nora went up and lived with him and worked in the shop and Bill grew up and went to the local primary school but then Grandad died during those years and the shop apparently wasn’t making much money so, Nora came down and stayed with us and Bill, they stayed in our house for a little while until, and aunt Nora’s a widow of a service man, was supposedly a widow of a service man, she got a council house, we were living in Welwyn Garden City at that time, I was going to the local Handside Primary School and Bill came along too. Now Bill would have been about three or four years older, three or four years older than me, and I’ve got his photo somewhere, and I couldn’t find it today and he was a nice looking boy and of course you know, I was only a little girl about eight or something like that and, eight or nine, and, oh, I was in love with Bill, I used to tell my parents and everybody I was going to marry Bill and I remember, cause Bill loved, he had a Meccano set and Bill loved his Meccano and cause with my little itchy [unclear] fingers, I remember, could I have put that, no! He hated me, I was always around his Mecco, trying to or reading his comics, and I remember at school, we were changing classes one day and the big boys came out of whatever they’ve been and he’s, and of course I’m saying to all my other friends, that’s my cousin, that’s my cousin Bill and you know, Bill’s looking everywhere except, we were twelve or thirteen. So, you know, that’s my cousin and so they went and lived in their house and eventually they moved to Luton in Beds, and Luton was the centre of the hat-making industry, of course in those days I mean everyone made more hats, felt hats, women wore hats all the time, straw hats and felt hats in the winter and my aunt was pretty good at her job and Bill got a job as a young, he had, when he left Handside Primary School, during Depression there were so few jobs he got a job as an errand boy. They would take boys as errand boys on delivery bicycles, like you used to see in that funny comic series Open All Times [sic], it how you would have seen it on TV, and always had errand boys. I mean, when my mother went shopping, she would carry a little shopping basket but she would only get the perishables like the meat or eggs, a bit of cheese or fish, she would carry that home, everything else was delivered either sometimes by delivery man, mainly by errand boys on funny big arm bikes with a huge thing. And errand boys were all everywhere, of course they got a pittens [?], I mean, there was no real big dole or anything in those days, so, they only got a little bit above of what the dole would be and as soon as they, all these errand boys turned eighteen, see, they had to go on to adult wages, so they were all sacked. So that was when Nora moved to Luton and Bill got a job in a factory, you know, he was just a general factotum sweeping up and so on and he could see, like a lot of boys of that era, that it was much better in the forces, so he joined the Royal Air Force in those days when they used to wear the breeches and the grey patties and tunics up to your neck and the peak caps and he was stationed at Cardington where the balloons were, all the big balloons. And RAF Cardington and of course he saved up and bought a motorbike and so on and my dad had had a motorbike and they were motorbike crazy, he used to come over and see us a lot. And then of course, uhm, he, that’s it, he went in, he hadn’t got the educational qualifications to go to Halton, to the School of Aircraft Apprentices to be a fitter because you had to have secondary education for that, with maths and so on. He went into the trade of, is not a trade now, machine tool oiler and setter, next, really, a machine, he would end up as a machine setter which was a very good trade. So, that was what he was doing when war started, and about the same time it was, it was beginning in 1943 when all the four-engine bombers were starting to come in and we were really doing something over Germany, we were the only service other than the navy, the only service really doing anything in the war. And Bill wanted to go as aircrew, I don’t know why he never said why, and he, he applied to be aircrew and they turned him down, saying, you know you are a school tradesman, someone will have to be trained in your place, stay as you are. So he said, right, I’ll go on strike. Well of course he was marched up to the commanding officer who said: ‘I could court martial you and that would be the end of your air force career’. But he said: ‘I’ll tell you what, boy, he said, you can go in as aircrew and can go in as a bloody bomb aimer’. So, he went in, he was trained as a bomb aimer, he was at Skellingthorpe. Now he was on Lancasters. Now, the Air Force in 19, 1943, ’44, I think it was October 1944, the Air Force had been trying to decimate Brunswick because it was full of factories, war factories and they’d been, they’d had raid after raid, there was going to be a really big raid, a huge raid on Brunswick and that night the huge [unclear] went out including Bill’s Lancaster and they were all so even other, this shows you how our Air Force had grown from 1942 when we were couldn’t make, could barely make a thousand, there were other small diversionary raids on that would draw fighters away and it was a highly successful raid. It was, the town was absolutely decimated. They only had three or four minor raids on it afterwards, just to clean up and only one of our aircraft was missing that night. That was my cousin’s aircraft. I managed to find this out. I found out from the Bomber Command War Diaries and then I was in the library only a month or two ago, and there’s was a wonderful book which I had written down somewhere which has all, it’s a big book about all our prisoners of war, it has all our prisoners of war and of course Bill’s name was in. And apparently they were badly hit and their navigator, funnily their navigator, navigators always seem to get hit, their navigator was badly injured and they, I mean, it must have been hell in the plane because apparently, you know, it was going round and how, how on earth you can move about in a plane that is going down like that I don’t know. They, he said, he told us afterwards, he said, two of them, he and another, the engineer apparently, had to drag the poor old navigator to the biggest exit and his parachute came open, started to open in the plane because they just had to bundle everything out but he seemed to go down alright but they, they never, then he jumped and the other man jumped, that must have been the gunner I think. When they got down, when they landed in Germany, cause it wasn’t far from the target, they, cause he’d forgotten all of the correct things to do, he didn’t take his helmet, and all the hoo-ha getting them out, didn’t take his helmet off, and he was nearly strangled, all the cords went round his neck, he was [mimics a strangling noise and laughs] and then his big flying boots he had they were unzipped, they came off, [laughs]. So there he was in his socked feet and they couldn’t find any of the other crew in the dark of the night and they started to down this long road and you know on the continent they very often they put all this plane trees along the sides of the road and there were all these sapling trees with thick sacking wrapped round them, so to keep them up to sporting post cause they were, so he and the other bloke they cut all this sacking off to wrap around Bill’s feet and they looked around and there were all these plane sacking across the road, all these [unclear]. And he said the next thing is a couple of nights, he said, it was very cold, he said, a couple of nights we just got water, rain water, where we could find it in the fields and he said, we got turnips from the fields and ate them turnips and carrots and he said, we got to this little township and he said, in the dark we could see this building with all these bikes outside. We thought if we can get a bike how much easier and cause they knew the direction they were going, you know, towards the west trying to get to our troops. Anyway, they both grabbed the bikes and cause they must have made a noise, next thing all these German troops come out and they take them prisoners and apparently it was outside the SS headquarters [laughs]. Then, the next thing, he was an officer, now, that what I always think about my cousin Bill, his bomber aimer training, he’d been send over on the ATS scheme to Canada and he’d obviously the smart lad, been commissioned, you know, I mean, drop us off a commissioned, who wouldn’t take it, but Bill took it, and he was, he came out as a flight Louie. So, he went to Stalag, the officers camp, Stalag Luft III, the great escape camp and cause he talked, I mean, he didn’t tell us an awful lot but they were all helping, you know, that were these, they made bags to wear inside their trousers to take the earth and they’d sort of sprinkled the earth if they were walking about or playing games and he said, oh, he said, I could have been in the last group, he said, to go, he said, all us tail enders, he said, of course by that time they’d been captured and but he told us quite a bit about that terrible march that the Germans did, not just from Stalag Luft III, but from several of the prisoner of war camps. They were going to massacre the prisoners but why they started, they started to march them to the east and it was the middle of winter and of course a lot of them had thin shoes and uniform thin and they didn’t have any, they had a bad couple of holes of thin potato, growl potatoey water and they were all being marched along with all these German guards and if any of them fell by the way and didn’t pick themselves up, they’d either shoot them or bash them with a rifle butt. And I mean, Bill didn’t say anything much, just told us about this and he said, fortunately, he said, I, and he wasn’t a very strong chap and he said, you know, he said, it was pretty sickening, he said, we were helping the ones that were really, couldn’t walk but, he said, it was pretty sickening and fortunately we ran into, oh, we were spending, we’d been put into an empty prisoner of war camp for overnight and he said, fortunately or unfortunately the Russians came along. But, he said, there was a lot of problems with the Russian soldiers. They were trigger-happy and he said, we were warned that if we tried to sort of get out of the camp to start going to the east again, to try and join up with the British who weren’t far away, that we would, you know, that these trigger-happy Russians and he said, they came into our prisoner of camp and they treated us as if we were the enemy. He said, they just took wrist watches and all the money, anything of any value. They took even cat badges and things like that. And he, so they were told to play it very cool, and be very quiet, and just, they stayed in this prisoner of war camp for a few days and behind the barbwire and the Russians were circling around outside and suddenly the Americans appeared full force, tanks and guns and things and they immediately, the Russians sort of, they ushered the Russians, there were only a few Russians by then, they ushered them off and took the aircrew to an American camp, to a British camp but he said it was a pretty nasty situation. He said, when you’ve been a prisoner of war and then suddenly your allies come and treat you almost as badly.
AP: Said one of my interview subjects a few weeks ago, he said: ‘Then we were liberated by the Russians’, he said.
JS: There.
AP: Actually, we were recaptured by the Russians [laughs]
JS: Yes, that’s what he said, that’s what it was like, and he said, you didn’t feel comfortable, you didn’t feel safe,
AP: Very, very similar.
JS: Weird.
AP: Strange stuff. So, Bill came home [unclear]?
JS: Bill came home but it was all very sad. Now, we came out here in 1952 and Bill had, he’d had a job and he’d got a very nice girlfriend, they were going to get engaged and then his mother, apparently, I mean, we weren’t near him at the time cause my father said, if only I’d known, you know, but his mother then said, you can’t get married Bill, there’s mental problems in our family, in your father’s family and he and I think Nora was very possessive and I think Nora wanted him to be there for her life. And she, I mean, had, we don’t know how she brought it to him but she more or less said, you know, if I, in the end she told him, you’re father’s a raving lunatic in a padded cell and Bill said, I want to go, I didn’t know I had a living father, he said, you should have told me years ago, I want to go and see him and of course there was a real breakup between them and in the end she gave him the address of this place. He went to this mental home and he saw his father, more or less a slobbering lunatic, you know, and in a padded cell. And he came back, broke his engagement, I think he had a complete breakdown and he was having a treatment, he went in as a sort of outpatient and apparently he was getting on very well and he got a job as a gardener and he was still having light treatment but of course he got to know a young nurse there and of course the authorities would never let the nursing staff make boyfriends of the patients. So she was immediately posted somewhere else and I suppose he saw another friendship gone. I mean, the poor boy was probably craving for love and I just, look, I go around, I’m sure these years since Jock died, if I were religious, I mean, I’m an atheist, if I were religious, and if I were a catholic, I’d say I’d be going through a sort of Purgatory because I’ve been looking at all the things I should have done, I should have been a better daughter, I should have done better at school, I should have been a nicer wife, I mean, I wasn’t nasty but I was, you know, things I shouldn’t. And I think of Bill, and torture myself, if only you had kept, you know, written to him more often, if only you’d asked him to come out, we were living in a caravan over on the north side of town on our block of land, building our house out of pocket more or less, building where [unclear} house our first home and I couldn’t sponsor him. And the next thing, he was living in digs and working as a gardener and I suppose he just had this complete, what’s the use, because I know the feeling myself. And I had a letter from his landlady, apparently he put his head, and when she was out one day he put his head in the gas oven and I mean, my lovely cousin Bill, and I, a year I was so fond of him and it broke my heart. And nobody else in the family took more. Jock didn’t know him well and dad and mum didn’t take much notice. And my dad was very hard, he was very hardened by World War I, and what he went through, and you know, I, it haunts me all the time, that nice boy and I mean, you know, flying and so on and then, every sort of romance, every bit of love broken up and I, blame my, well, look as I always think of mental hospitals, because that’s what happened when Jock fractured his skull, and, oh, he was, I mean, I could, it was a huge and I mean nowadays he probably would have had a brain operation, fortunately he had very strong bones but you could feel this huge jagged bone underneath his skin, huge scar and he said to me, he wasn’t going to ask me to marry him cause he said, he said, I in the end he did and he said, look, he said, I lay it on the line, he said, if you marry you are not going to get the man you would have got had I not had this accident, he said, and I know what it’s done to my brain, he said, I know you won’t get the man that you deserve. And, I mean, I was madly in love, I didn’t care and, but, I know he did, he wasn’t nasty or anything, but he had a nose operation, uhm, oh, in the 1980s, ‘70s, had a nose operation and when the, he had a, like me, he had a deviated sept, to my [unclear] had it done, my nose was twisted and his nose was badly twisted and he couldn’t breathe well and he had this [unclear] surgeon, she said his bones were all overgrown and pressing on nerves and he used to have these occasional days, a couple of days when he would have a terrible headache and he would wake up in the morning, he’d still go to work but he would, he wouldn’t talk to me, he’d just look at me, glassy-eyed, his eyes would just sort of glare at me and he wouldn’t say a word, he wouldn’t answer me and it would all clear over, I mean, I didn’t mind that, it didn’t worry me, he wasn’t cruel or anything to me. But, I mean, I put it down to what he had on his head. But, he was taken from the local hospital to the big service hospital at Rauceby out in Lincolnshire, very big hospital which had been a mental home, a mental hospital. And I used to go, I used to walk about five miles, my bosses used to let me off early, they were very good and I used to walk about five, used to walk down the old roman road, the old way and right out in the middle country this big, huge building and all these corridors and every so often they’d be huge, heavy doors with double locks on because they were all pushed back with great big long corridors and then every now and again there’d be a little passage and that led to the padded cells. And I heard groaning one day and I tiptoed, I was on my way to see Jock, I tiptoed down and there was this poor young aircrew boy, I mean, he didn’t see me, he was bandaged over his eyes, he obviously burned top to bottom and he was hung on straps and he just got holes for his nose and mouth and all bandaged up with his arms up like this and he was groaning away and he was and I actually saw all this sort of pale blue padding, all ceiling, walls, floor, everything, they put the very worst burns cases in there, I suppose peace and quiet and, cause a lot of them were screaming you know, would disturb the other patients. But I know Jock must have been very ill because when I first came to visit him, the RAF nursing sister, she said: ‘Are you his fiancé?’, I said: ‘Well, we’re not engaged but we are going to get married when the war ends or when the war’s over’ and she said, you know, you know your boyfriend is very seriously ill, she said, I want to warn you, he is very seriously ill. And I mean, all they did with him there, he had his head sort of wedged in a wooden frame and he lay there for a couple of weeks in a wooden frame and they fed him stuff like [sighs] you don’t see it now, it’s sort of made from bones and, bones and brain and stuff that we used to be called, it was called something in old-fashion, it was like a sort of jelly, carsford [?] jelly, that’s it, it was made by bones and I think brains and it was the most tasteless stuff, cause I had to taste if his, cause it was supposed to help remake bones [unclear].
AP: Ok.
JS: So, that was, he obviously was very ill but they never cleared, they never gave him an x-ray to after, he was x-rayed when he had the accident, never gave him an x-ray to clear him and he managed to get back onto flying because he went for his aircrew board to see if he was fit for flying. And there was, there were two doctors and the old chap more or less told the other bloke he could go, the other doctor he could go, he said, oh, I’ll deal with this case and he was an old doctor and he came from one of the Hebridean Islands and he spoke Gaelic and of course he saw from Jocks docs where he came from and they spoke for about an hour or so in Gaelic and the doctor apparently said: ‘Ah, you are fit for flying!’
AP: So this, I think we were talking about that before we turned the tape on. This was the motorbike accident for Jock.
JS: Mh, yes.
AP: Wasn’t it?
JS: That he, he had scars, I mean, you know, cause his googles were broken and his nose was damaged and the size of his mouth was split, his eyes were all split at the side, he had slight scars, but it didn’t damage his beauty, I think he was quite nice looking [laughs]. But he was the love of my life, he was a lovely man. We laughed our way through time and it was all giggle, giggle, giggle, all the time.
AP: Very good. Uhm, what else do I have. Can you, well, we might back up a little bit. Can you tell me where you were and what your thoughts were, obviously you’ve already told me that you expected war to come but when you actually heard that Britain is at war. What were your thoughts and feelings and what were you doing at that point?
JS: Well, that’s rather dreadful because I told you I was in the Ministry of Aircraft Production and obviously war was coming, well war was coming very close because that, you know, what’s his name, had been over, Chamberlain had been over and come back with a piece of paper and then of course Germany had walked into Czechoslovakia and in that interim period we were working twenty-four hours, they’d got camp beds in a big room and we were and it was a Sunday and I was on duty, I’d, cause I was living at Amersham at the time, I’d come up, I’d think I’d slept the night an hour in the bed there which was in the Ministry of Aircraft Production was, the offices were in Berkeley Square and we, in the West End of London just walked up and Piccadilly was just and the Green Park was just up the road and I, we were called, they said to, we were working and they said to us girls we are all going down to the big hall because there is going to be a speech by the Prime Minister, because we all knew Germany had [unclear] and everyone was cock-a-hoop, oh, we’re going to be at war, oh whack-o!, sort of thing and of course, see [unclear], I mean, in 1939 I was seventeen, young and silly. We all were, a big typing pool of girls, all silly girls and we sat in the hall and the speech came on and he said we are now at war and we all said whoopee! And the air raid siren went and we were told to go to the shelters, or go down the corridor and we all rushed to the big windows and there wasn’t a soul to be seen in Berkeley Square. The Queen Mothers, the Queen’s dressmaker William Hartnell [sic] had room, had his big shop and rooms just opposite, not a soul to be seen anywhere, only a big red big fat barrage balloon going slowly up. And we were all, where are the Germans? And we all thought it was wonderful, then we all sang, Pack Up Your Troubles and It’s a Long Way to Tipperary and we were all throwing paper around and thought it was wonderful. And then of course I went home and my father said: ‘Bloody little fool!’ [laughs] He said, you wait, you don’t know what war was like, he said, now, and I remember when Dunkirk happened because I had an aunt, my mother’s sister married my uncle and they lived on an island at Thames Ditton, which isn’t far from Surbiton in Surrey, an island in the river Thames, that’s where the Thames widens and Richmond Park, beautiful royal park, is on the other side. And my uncle had a little cabin cruiser I think and they were given orders, everyone was given orders to take, the navy came round to, all those people on the island had boats and they were given orders at Dunkirk time to take their boats, they had to take their boat down to some part in the Thames estuary and the navy would deal with them and they were all hitched up to a, I don’t know whether it be onto a torpedo boat or a destroyer, I don’t think a destroyer would be too big, they were hitched up on lines and they were taken over to pick men up and brought them back. He only went over the once, cause I think he had engine trouble coming home and you know, all this sort of thing was happening and I and dad said, after Dunkirk I mean it was only then the Battle of Britain started almost and I remember we, dad and mum and I went for a walk and dad, we were talking about the war and he said, I don’t know, he said, what have we got? He said, we’ve only got these young men and a few young men with planes and he said, they are going to be overwhelmed by the German Air Force, who’d been practicing in Spain in the Spanish war, he said, they are going to be just shot down and he said, I just wish I’d kept my World War I revolver with three [unclear], one for you, one for mum and one for me. And that was dad, he said, it’s going to be a bloodbath if they come over. But then again quite a lot of us in years later in the ex-service things, we were talking, there were all, I mean, there was the man in the street who could do what he’s told and he couldn’t care less, as long as he’s got a warm bed and three meals a day and I mean, Hitler had obviously impressed the German people, I mean, obviously, well, I mean, they had been in a bad, in a terrible way in the Depression and we were, and we’d come through that terrible Depression and I mean, if you had someone who started to tell you, oh, we are going to do this and we are going to do that and we, you know, we are all going to live in a united Europe and do very well, and a lot of the, a lot of the upper crust, a lot of the aristocracy were very Pro-Hitler and, but there was in recent years, there have been things discovered, there’s been an underground headquarters found which, they’ve got no records of anywhere in the War Office or, anyway and apparently it has come out that there was a big, like resistance movement already being organised by Churchill and the patriotic people, very patriotic leaders of the country. Now there would have been civil war I think, I think it would have turned into civil war. You know, lot of us ex-service people have been talking, cause I’ll tell you this. In recent years, with the way life is, with the permissive life and it’s all me, me, me now and the way things are going politically, I mean everywhere not just our [unclear], our politicians are bloody twits, all of them and everywhere seems to be the same and all these do-gooders and letting all these people into Europe and a lot of us ex-service people are saying, perhaps it would have been better, saying, was it worth it? Was it worth all those lives lost? Would we have been better under Hitler? If you’d kept your nose clean and done what you were told you’d probably be just as well off. Cause the German people were. The only thing is of course, you’ve got things like the, those concentration camps, I mean, you’d think of that. The concentration camps, I mean, would we want concentration camps? This is the thing. You’ve got. And I mean, I was only reading the other day about the Japanese, if we hadn’t atom bombed them, they had, form the Emperor down, they had been given orders that every prisoner of war, civilian as well as service, which would have been a hell of a lot of civilians cause they had a lot of Dutch people and so on were to be massacred, it didn’t matter how you do it, squashed them, hanged them up, knifed them, staked them, all the most horrible of things, that every non-Japanese was to be got rid of, so, I was just as well we get the atom bomb off, cause we saved a lot of innocent people’s lives. But I mean, you know, there’s quite a lot of us, especially you know like in the navy get-togethers and things, and everyone says, was it really worth it, when you think of all your mates. And I think more or less one of the reasons that we say it was the best time of our lives, it was a wonderful time in the majority of people, civilians and service, we were all pulling together, we all had one ideal, and it was a very legitimate war. We had one ideal and there was the mateship, the companionship. I mean, I never came across anything nasty, I never came across rape or anything in the services, in the women’s services and everyone was so, you know, working together and the great comradeship and friendship and helping each other, cause life was difficult and harsh at times and we all helped each other. And, you know, you would put your friends before anything else, you know, to help your friends and support them and perhaps I’d think it’s more that when we say it was the best years of our lives, that terrific comradeship. And it really to me and of course to me all the time and then it’s something we all say in the RAF association, you know, those young men who sacrificed their lives and the way they were treated after the war, the way the bomber boys were treated and they must never be forgotten. My daughter gets on my nerves cause she said, oh, one day will come and everyone will forget them, I said, no, they won’t after all they don’t forget Nelson and the sailors that fought at Trafalgar, they don’t forget the soldiers that fought at Waterloo, that saved Britain and there was, both of those were narrow squeaks, [laughs], I mean Waterloo was very near the knuckle, they were and so was Trafalgar, cause Nelson was, cause right from a little girl I always Nelson was my big one time hero and we’ve had a film of his life, we also, one year we had a film of a sort of mock-up thing that they did in Britain of these battleships and they had an actual broadside, cause Nelson, Nelson did it, instead of fighting each ship broadside on and opening the cannons, he got, he laid his flotilla, all the enemy battleships were like front and back, you know, all in lines and then he came along with his flotilla like that and they simply opened up, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, broadsides and split the ships right through and he brought that manoeuvre into being, I mean, he was a real, I read a lot about naval battles, I read, my reading, I read occasionally a biography or a travel book but my reading is all war books.
AP: [laughs]
JS: Oh yeah, I’m on the [unclear] and up there.
AP: I can see in the collection of books [unclear].
JS: I’m, I’ve been getting out of the library, I’ve been reading about [unclear], or I think submariners that’s even worse than bombers. I once met a submarine man and he was such a nice, gentle, little chap and I used to think, how can you go down under the sea, all those thousands of feet, oh, with depth charges?
AP: [unclear] a lot of fun.
JS: But I, I do, I read a lot and I’m reading a lot at the moment about World War I cause there have been a lot of programs, Tony, oh, he’s Sir Tony now, the man who does the walks through Britain, he’s done a very three or four weeks running on a Sat, Sunday afternoon about going through World War I. My dad in World War I, he was in the trenches and then they were sent to Mesopotamia and that’s of course Iraq and then they were sent to Salonica, but they were sent through Palestine cause I know he had a bathe in the Black, in the Dead Sea, and said, oh, you just float on the top of the salt water but he saw Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence of Arabia, he and another man, they came on their camels and he said, we’d just come out of the lines, we were fighting the Turks and he said, we’re all filthy and dirty and he said, we were having our rest and he said, cause dad started as a private and went up to, he went right through the ranks and was commissioned in the field and went up to captain and he said, I was in the headquarters and he said, this man in all his silk, was only a short man, in all his silk Arab robes came in and they wanted maps to getting from somewhere to somewhere and they were going to take a place, they were going to take the surrender of a place and the Aussies got there first [laughs] and took the surrender, and all these [unclear], all these two [unclear] men [unclear] Arabs they got there after us but then before that dad had seen the Australian light horse going up not very far away cause I think it was Damascus and the Australian light horse came through going up to Beer Sheba and he said, again we were all filthy, our poor old infantry, cause he was in the rifle brigade, he said, oh, the poor dirty old infantry and he said, we were all lying around and he said, suddenly, he said, in the middle of all this filth and dust, he said, these, like a vison, he said, these tall, they all seemed to be tall according to them, these tall bronzed young men and he said, everything, he said, their horses were gleaming, their saddlery was glowing and he said they got these, whatever, they got, I don’t know what they’re called in their hands and just, and they were all laughing and the Aussies were all laughing and joking and you know, the rifle brigade gave them a cheer and saluted them and they were all happy and I mean that was a real fluke, that the Turks had their machineguns set for them there, they’d had mown the horses down if they’d been able to and they got them locked all in a mess and apparently, cause you, I mean, if you’re on a galloping horse you know what’s it’s like on a full gallop, it must be pretty deadly to see all these waving their swords and shouting and, you know, shrieking and shouting and horses neighing and the thud of hooves, just imagine it. And it was a complete triumph but that means at some poor devils [unclear] worst of course and horses. Yes.
AP: So, oh yes, I have, we’ve covered a fair bit. [unclear] We’re still going.
JS: I shouldn’t have kept you.
AP: No problem at all.
JS: Four hours.
AP: I’ve loved it, it was really good. However, uhm, I do have one last question. It may well be the most important one all my interviewees is this. Uhm, in your opinion, how is Bomber Command remembered and what legacy has it left?
JS: How is it remembered? Well, I suppose all of us who’ve had anything to do with them will remember them for the, they were the, they were our little white hope in all those long years when we were waiting and waiting to try and get into enemy, try and do an invasion, they were our only white hope and they were, I mean, if it hadn’t been for Bomber Command, bombing the factories, roads, every, keeping them on their toes, and keeping them short of things, it might have been terrible on D-Day if we hadn’t done something, I mean, why isn’t Bomber Command universally, why is it always this bloody Dresden thing comes up? All the time it comes up! And it seems to me, Canada and Britain seemed to have fostered this, I don’t know why and I would like to see Bomber Command remembered for the fact that they were our one big bastion against Germany for those interim years before D-Day and I would, well, I hope that, I would like to see them remembered more as a special thing, as we remember the Battle of Britain, I would love to see a sort of Bomber Command Day or something but the way they are still remembered I don’t like this attitude, it always comes up Dresden. And I mean why, you’ve got a German [unclear] who agrees that Dresden was hiding a lot of things and still there’s these people, so, well, I’m glad that there’s this big memorial in Britain because I think that it’ll be there and it’ll be like that wonderful memorial in Green Park, so at least you’ve got something always there in front of people, but I mean, you know, I still think there should have been a Bomber Command Day and a Bomber Command Medal, I mean, I mixed with these old chaps and it’s so sad, I don’t know, it’s so sad and remembering what they did, I remember you see the crews and their average age was between eighteen and twenty two, I mean, I think Jock’s crew they had their, I think their navigator was, he was grandad he was thirty, no, no, it was their, I’m sorry, it was their rear gunner, he was thirty, he was ex-metropolitan mounted police, cause the only way the police could get in the services was volunteer for aircrew, so he went in and yes, Ron, he was thirty two and married with children and they called him grandad but I mean, they were young men and I look at young men now and think my God, they were either in charge of a bomber and seven men’s lives or they were in a motor torpedo boat, interestingly, I never thought much of Jack, John Kennedy when he was president, I didn’t like the Kennedy family at all but I’ve read a very interesting book about him and he was a very brave young man too in that motor torpedo boat, a very brave young man but you when, and talking to them and of course you’d say how did you feel, what was, when you knew you could be going to your death? And a lot of them have said, well, you couldn’t let your mates down, you didn’t want to go but you couldn’t let your mates down, cause Jock said the first, oh, he said, I looked forward to my first op but he said, after that I didn’t look forward cause he said, oh, he said, when we went over the target and I looked down and he said it was a vision of hell and he said I still, he said, I still wasn’t that scared until I got back. But I remember, see some people, they were, you know they were terribly superstitious, I mean, Jock always, he had a [unclear] bit, those tiny [unclear] bits with a hole through it that one of his relatives gave him and he had a tiny little silver thimble which he got the leaves that he, when he went into the air force, he had a Christmas pudding at his aunt’s place and he got this silver thimble on a chain, teeny tiny little thing, the size of his little nail and he had one of my suspenders and he’d always have them pinned on his flying suit and, when he was cremated and I put, they were always kept in our bedside cabinet and I took them out and I tucked them under his pocket, you know, so that when he was dressed and being put in his coffin, they would go with him on his last flight but I mean, they had, the pilot had a teddy bear and he always had to rub its stomach when you got in so that was always stuck behind the pilots seat and some of them, he always told he’d get through he always said to me, don’t worry, he said, I might get injured but he said I have a feeling I’ll get through, now, other boys didn’t and I remember when I was giving out some of the Red Cross comforts one night when they were going on one of these small ops and from Lichfield, there was a lovely young navigator, he, blue eyed and very fair curly hair and always a lovely smile and you know, he’d been one of the boys, we’d all been in the pub together, singing, we all knew each other quite well and I remember him coming up and he leaned across the table and he was a big tall boy and he picked me up, just picked me up under the arms and gave me a big kiss and he said, bye bye Jean, he said, I won’t see you again, I mean, a great big smile, and I said, I can’t remember his name and I said, oh come off, he said, no, he said, I know, he said, I know I’m on it tonight and he didn’t come back and he was quite jovial about it but quite a lot of them and Jock had friends that he knew and he said some crews, he said, some crews, when you were on your operational station he said you knew as soon as they walked into the mess as a new crew, he said, they had the look and the smell of death on them, he said, you knew that they wouldn’t last long, cause on his squadron, 90 Squadron, theirs was the first crew for ten months to do, to get through full operational tour and actually they did thirty two and they were asked to go on a last one and his mechanics said to him oh, one of his mechanics said, oh god, I wish you weren’t going on this one, but he said, It’ll be alright and it was, thank God, that was the one where the two friends got blown up. But I don’t know ways remembering Bomber Command, how do you make people remember? I just hope that they’re never, well, I just hope they’re never forgotten for what they did because that was a horrible job. And I, you know, you, as I say, we used to see them and they were twitchy, you could see a lot of them were twitchy when they were going down to dispersals and they’d laugh, they’d be like little boys, ah, and they’d light a cigarette and then they’d take two puffs and then put it out and then light another one, I mean, and in transports the WAAF drivers taking them down, they liked the WAAF to take them down to their planes, they much preferred a WAAF than a man driver and it was the same with the wireless operators, the radio operators in flying control, they, oh, Jock used to say, oh, he said, when you are tired out and he said, you know you’re being told, a force comes on telling you, you’re going in a stack and he said, all you want to do is get your feet on the ground and he said to hear that quiet woman’s voice, he said, a man’s voice never did anything to me, he said, you hear that quiet woman’s voice talking you down, almost sympathising with you, and he said, you know, it did something for you and I think, you know I think, they were full of nerves. Jock said, you were, he said, you were always very quiet in the transport, he said, some would joke with the driver, the WAAF driver about her boyfriends or things like that but he said you’d, he said, the worst part was the waiting, he said, the waiting for the word off, cause sometimes when they were down by the aircraft all bombed up, it was cancelled and that was horrible cause he said, if it was cancelled you think oh god, I’ve got to go through all this again tomorrow night and every time they got back it’s one off towards the end of your tour and he said, once you got into your aircraft, he said, cause, engineers, the bomb aimer very often did the second pilot’s job during a trip but always take off and landing, the engineer was always with the pilot cause he helped the throttles and so on and switches and he said, you sat down, you did your cockpit check, you did your crew check, he said, you forgot everything, you had so much to do before take up, off and once you were up you had so much thing cause the engineers were checking labour entring every fifteen minutes, fuel thing and of course any lights going out or oxygen not coming through or things like that, they were always, he said, we are, he said, I was always busy, I didn’t have much time to sit down at all, but he said, you were always so busy, you never thought it was only, he said, we always used to be so glad, we always used to give a cheer when we saw the Channel coming back, he said, when you saw the sea [unclear] those usually be or everything going up from the coast, or defences, he said, you saw the sea, he said, you just prayed you got across the sea cause so many of them didn’t. And the awful thing was that of course some poor sods that landed on beaches and then the beaches were mined or the aircraft went into mined areas and blew up, just as they thought they were there. They did one time come, they were short of fuel and they had to use Woodbridge, you know, Woodbridge was a huge, right just over the coast, gigantic, but he said, they said, and the next one most wonderful thing was when he said you saw your beacon, cause that’s another thing that caused crashes coming home, the, all the, on the east coast all these huge airfields and their satellites all the circuits were intercepting so you got planes twiddling around everywhere, all the time during the war the sky was never free of aircraft, it seemed to be, always aircraft doing something cause they’d all the train, people training and then there were people going here and there to other stations and going off out. One of the most wonderful things was when I was down in London on leave, I was walking near Buckingham Palace I think, it was with my mother and aunt and walking near Buckingham Palace and a huge squadron, cause it was right near the end of the war and I mean they were just it wasn’t easy in those days, they were going over and it was, the war was almost into Germany and all these Flying Fortresses went out, hundreds of them went right over Buckingham Palace flying out, quarter of an hour later [makes a whooshing sound] along comes a little fighter squadron, cause they had to, they picked their fighter umbrella up cause the fighters were much faster, all these Hurricanes and Spitfires all riffing a long, making a lovely noise and it was quite inspiring because I’d only seen aircraft going out at night one by one and circling round and listening to the [unclear] in the clouds and that was, that was not as exciting as seeing a whole squadron, of cause they did a big box formation, they were quite classy, and once they, once their jolly old formations were broken they were really limping and we were better with our open formations and once they had, it was nearly, it wasn’t before the end of the European war but it was not far off, we had a conference at, oh no it must, no, no, this was at Lichfield so it must have been, no, must have been, I left, I left late 1943, I went to Group Headquarters so it must have been 1943, we had a Stirling bomber coming to this conference, a Lancaster bomber and a Flying Fortress, now you could see the three of them, a Stirling just towered, the Lancaster was fair and the Flying Fortress, which everyone said oh [unclear] big planes, it was so small and the Yanks took us, our boys took us over there [unclear] and the Yanks planes, I mean I wouldn’t like to be a gunner on an American fortress and you know with this wide open bitterly cold I mean they wore a lot of warm things must have been terribly cold and they were more or less each side gunner, they were more or less bashing buttons and there were all the machine guns, all strings of ammunition everywhere, you had to pick your way through these strings of ammunition and it wouldn’t have been very nice at all, wouldn’t have been nice at all, so and cause, you know, the Lancaster of course you’ve got the big bulkhead but you’ve got a bigger one in the Stirling cause Jock said there was always the trouble you know when you had to get down to the rear gunner and you got an awful long way to go and it was, and you’ve only got a catwalk, is bitterly cold [coughs] if you hadn’t got, even through your silk glove you could feel the cold if you put your hand on the side of the aircraft [coughs] then you get that bloody great bulkhead, climbing over there with all that flying kit [coughs] horrible.
AP: Quite, quite amazing. Well, I think you’ve covered all the questions I had.
JS: [coughs] [unclear]
AP: I only had to ask three of them. [laughs]
JS: I apologize.
AP: No, no problems at all, there is some fantastic stuff in there. [unclear] I love these sorts of interviews I love the best, cause I come in, I ask one question and I just sit back and listen.
JS: Oh, as long as you don’t mind, I do apologize.
AP: Ah, I loved it.
JS; [unclear]
AP: yeah, yeah.
JS: I’ll make another cup of tea.
AP: Thank you very much. I’ll turn this off.
Dublin Core
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ASmithJ160312, PSmithJ1601
Title
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Interview with Jean Smith
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Sound
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eng
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02:40:04 audio recording
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Pending review
Pending OH summary. Allocated S Coulter
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2016-03-12
Description
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Jean Smith worked as a clerk in the aircraft manufacturing industry before the war and later served as a secretary in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force. She served at 27 Operational Training Unit at RAF Lichfield.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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Great Britain
England--Staffordshire
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1943
1945
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Peter Schulze
27 OTU
aircrew
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
control caravan
control tower
crash
flight engineer
ground personnel
love and romance
memorial
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Nissen hut
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Lichfield
runway
service vehicle
Stirling
superstition
training
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1041/11414/AMunroKW160522.2.mp3
b281050359604d4fa350d7a3b662ec59
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Munro, Kenneth William
K W Munro
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Kenneth Munro (Royal Air Force) and seven photographs. He flew operations as a night fighter navigator with 456 Squadron flying Mosquitos.
The collection was catalogued by Barry Hunter IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-23
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Munro, KW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
KM: I was not in Bomber Command. You know that of course.
AP: Well, you were, you were Mosquitoes.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: That’s close enough.
KM: Night fighters, is it? As Bob, he wasn’t, wasn’t the CO. He was next door to him. And the fellow Baz Howard, he came from Queensland and he, we were down at Bradwell Bay. Down Essex. Down there, and he said one day, we were all sitting down in the mess down there [coughs] and he said, I’m going up to see a friend up in Yorkshire.’ And Peter said, ‘Well, I’ll go with you in a Mosquito,’ and he said, ‘No. I’ll do it on my own.’ And he went up there and saw his mate and came back and he got just about back to Bradwell Bay and one of the motors conked out. And so just coming in and just landing it because they were putting all the things that went into the North Sea and taking them home and putting them in there and he, he went down and he said he couldn’t get in in a tight turn because one motor was gone. So he went around again and about just as he got over the, what’s it called, the Black Sea I think it is, and all of a sudden the other one went as well and he just sailed along. We could see him. He hit the water bumped his head on his forehead here and sank in about five feet of water. And we tried to get out because there was probably about sixty of us, probably a hundred guys from the [unclear] walk out to find him. But it was quite a big current was going like that and we couldn’t get out ourselves. Even if we turned the clocks off and walked and went out there but so he drowned in a Mosquito and just sank there. So it was a great shame but he was a very nice fellow too. But it just shows you. If you didn’t have to do the right thing and you didn’t get in the first landing, went around again. He should have just put it down.
AP: Regardless. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I’ll ask you about accidents and things later on I think. So, we may as well if you’re, we may as well kick off the proper interview.
KM: Yeah.
AP: And it’s recording now. I can see it jumping away there. So what I normally do I start with a little, a little spiel at the beginning. Just to sort of set the time and place.
KM: Yeah.
AP: And then I dive in. Ask a couple of questions. We’ll just have a chat.
KM: Yeah.
AP: For an hour, two hours. However long it takes.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Until you run out of stories.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Or one or the other of us begs for mercy. Right. So this interview for the International Bomber Command Centre is with Ken Munro who was a 456 Squadron Mosquito navigator during the Second World War. The interview is taking place at Ken’s place in Doncaster in Melbourne.
KM: Yeah. Applewood it’s called.
AP: Applewood it is called.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: That’s right. It is the 22nd of April err I’ll try again it’s the 22nd of May.
KM: Yeah.
AP: 2016. My name’s Adam Purcell. So Don, you’re not Don. You’re Ken. Sorry.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Ken, tell me something of your early life and what you were doing before the war.
KM: I got a job in nineteen, on the 24th of January 1938 in a chartered accountant’s called Wright and Roberts. Mr Wright died and it became MG Roberts. A well-known chartered accountant. And I stayed there until I got half way through the exams. Sort of half of the heart of it done and I was going to join the air force then. And he, Mr Roberts said why don’t you do your intermediate exam and then go? So I said ok. And by that time they didn’t want any more in the air force at that stage up in Russell Street and so I joined the Victorian Scottish. You know, you’ve probably seen my photograph over there. But I’ll show it to you later on but — so I was down there. Mount Martha was a beautiful spot down there in summertime. And after a while when the Yanks came in we had to go down to Back Beach at Ryde Down there. So we packed up. Went down there and we were there until about February I think it was. And then the word came around we were going to Fremantle and join the general who got out of Malaya. You know, when the Japs came. He got back to Australia. They didn’t like him doing that but he got there and we were to join up with him over there in the army at a place called Bushmead just out of Midland Junction there in Perth. They came around and there was a big van said, “Would you like to join the air force?” So I said, ‘Yes. I’d like to join the air force.’ So anyrate had to go, had to stay with the army. Went to Moura which is halfway to Geraldton. And at, finally they got in touch with me at Geraldton and said you can come down now to Busselton which is down near Bunbury. Down there. And so I was in the air force down there. And I was there probably for about probably about four or five weeks. I did a course down there.
AP: So that was your Initial Training School was it?
KM: Yeah. Then —
AP: Yeah.
KM: We went up to Pearce. You know, north of Perth. And we were there on guard you know. Still doing a job there. And there was Ralph White of course. Ralph White was the same thing. He was in the Victorian Scottish and so we got out. I came back to Somers in about [pause] September I think and then I did a course down there. Then Hubert Opperman, you know was our flight commander. He was, he was a teacher really. He was very good and he had another man called Ginger Markham, you know. And he came on top of the exercise we had to do and I was about second I think and he said. ‘We’re going to make you navigators.’ Which we didn’t want to be but [laughs] we sort of did well at arithmetic and that sort of thing. So anyrate, he said ‘Would you like to go to Canada?’ We both looked at one another. He said, ‘Well, if you’re not quite sure go to bed and sleep on it and come and tell me tomorrow.’ So we came back and said we’d like to go. So away we went and I went up to Bradwell, was it Bradwell Bay? Brad Park? Up there.
AP: Bradfield Park in Sydney.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Yeah.
KM: In to Sydney. And we were there. There for probably about three weeks and we were going on the Queen Elizabeth. And then somebody said there’s submarines outside there so they cancelled that and we had to stay back. Went across on the [pause] starting to forget things now. On an American very old steamer. What was it called? I’ve forgotten now. Anyway, we started from Sydney on, in March I think and it took us twenty eight days to get across the Pacific to — we were going to go to Vancouver but halfway across all of a sudden they could hear the throbbing of the motors going. Deathly quiet and the engines wouldn’t go and we were stuck there [laughs] about halfway across there. And anyway, they got them fixed up in about a day and we carried on. It took us twenty eight days to get us across the Pacific and they decided to go to San Francisco which, we had a day there. Bought a lot of chocolate and that sort of thing. People were very good there. The Yanks met us with cars and drove us all around ‘Frisco. And then we were only about a day and a half and then we got a train up to Vancouver which was marvellous. Beautiful scenery. And went to Vancouver and I think we stayed there a day or so and went out to Edmonton. That’s where I did my course there. So that was about all I think.
AP: Alright. Why did you want to be in the air force?
KM: Well, my father was in the barracks at St Kilda Road there and he knew the man who was the civil aviator. Sort of pilot you know. And he got this German three engine one with one there, one in the front sort of thing and he said, ‘Would any of your sons like to have a flight?’ I was about thirteen or fourteen and I said, ‘Yeah. I’d like to have a go at that.’ So a friend of mine who was, who was finally joined, [unclear] actually, he was a very clever bloke so he couldn’t join the forces because he was needed elsewhere. So, anyway we had all around Melbourne and he came back and he said to my father, he offered me to go down to Cerberus down there in the Mornington Peninsula as a cadet. I was about thirteen. I said, ‘No thanks. I don’t want to go to the Navy,’ so, ‘I want to go to the air force.’ So that was about how I got in the air force. And I did a course at Edmonton. I think it was about six months I think. And I was made an officer off course. And we went up to Halifax and got on the Aquitania and went to, to what’s that in the Clyde? What’s the name of it again? In the Clyde. That’s where we landed in there. I forget the name of the place but, and then had a train down to Brighton and that’s where we decided, want me to carry on?
AP: Yeah. Keep going.
KM: Yeah. Well —
AP: Keep going. I’ll come back and fill in the gaps later on.
KM: Yeah. Well. We got there. We got on the train. A little, little kid by the train line as you went to slide out to get out and he said in his Scots, ‘Have you got any gum mister?’ [laughs] And we said, ‘No. We haven’t got anything.’ So, anyway we went down to Brighton which was, we had a very nice hotel there. Just on the corner where the boulevard goes all along. Just around the corner down there. Near the Grand. You know, where Mrs Thatcher and they got — just away to the east from there. But it was very nice. We had a nice room there. And Focke Wulfs used to come across and shoot them up a bit occasionally. And at any raids that came we had to get down in to the, in to the bowels of the, of the hotel. And one day I I couldn’t be bothered. I thought I’d just stay in my room. And this Wing Commander Swan I think his name was, a bit of a nasty sort of fellow he came around, found me and he said, ‘I’ll let you off this time but you’ll be on a charge next time.’ Yeah. Anyway I went in to, in the, in the lounge one day and I sat down at a table like this. A man was reading a paper next door and he said, ‘Have you just arrived?’ and I said, ‘Yes. I just came in yesterday.’ And he said, in another two days he came and said, ‘I don’t know whether you know but I’m the posting officer from Brighton.’ And I said, ‘Oh. I think I’m going to Bomber Command.’ He said, ‘Well, they’ll probably take about three weeks before you can do that. But,’ he said, ‘There’s a new course.’ And I said, ‘Well, what is it?’ And he said, ‘Radar.’ I said, ‘I’ve never heard of it.’ He said, ‘Well, you have to do an exam.’ With another friend who came across so three other fellows came with me and we got, did the exam and got passed and so he said, ‘Well, you’re going up to Ouston which is up near Newcastle on Tyne.’ In there. ‘You’re going to learn all about radar.’ So, so anyway we waited about a week and away we went. And that’s when we, we — it was quite a nice station too. It was about October then I think and there was snow all around up there. And we started flying in Ansons you know. They had all the gubbins in there. And that’s how we learned how to operate radar and later on in [pause] first of all what did they call it? Radial engines. Oh God. Bomber. I’ll think of it later on. But it wasn’t a Mosquito, it was in. It was easier to sit back. The pilot’s up the front and I used to sit back there. Bomber —
AP: Beaufighter perhaps.
KM: Beaufighters. Beaufighters. I liked them. What did they call them? The creeping death, I think. You know.
AP: Whispering. Whispering death.
KM: Whispering death. Yeah.
AP: It took all the [unclear] sort of thing.
KM: They had plenty of power down below. I used to just sit back. There was a swivel chair. I used to face the back like that and then they put the power on and away it goes, and whirr like that. They were a very good aircraft. And down low they were very good indeed. But I did that for a while. And, I can’t remember. We had fellows that was going to do a camera thing, sort of thing and he got in one and went up and I was down the back and he, he did all sorts of things. Turned this and turned this and went over and back again. And I said, ‘How long are you going to be on this?’ And he said, ‘I won’t be that long.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’m going to be sick in a moment.’ [laughs] and, which I was. And when I got down a WAAF came out and said, with a bucket and said, ‘You can clean it up yourself.’ [laughs] But so that was my and from then on we did mostly all sorts of things. It came behind an aircraft and it dropped down below them so they looked up and fired a bullet sort of thing. And then, then they had to do one, one coming straight to you and you had to go. You could see them coming. You had to do that left hand turn to come below. And if you could go, catch him again and again shoot him down sort of thing. So we learned all about that there. As a matter of fact Keith Miller was up there.
AP: Ah.
KM: Yeah. He was flying ones you know. Doing what we were. Trying to get behind him sort of thing but [pause] So, I think I was there ‘til about the beginning of February I think. And then we went down to Bedfordshire. At Cranfield. And that’s where I met my wife down there. And we did a lot of more work on, we used to get behind the [pause] I’m forgetting aircraft. Wellington. Yeah. We used to get behind them and do the same thing, sort of thing. And that went on for about in February ‘til late April I think. And then I was going to go to Bomber Command as an escort. And I had packed everything up and I was going to get the train down to London and go out to Coltishall. Out in Norfolk. And the signal came through from the air vice marshall from Australia — all people are going as night fighters. Going to 456 down in, in Arundel. Down south, And Arundel’s just near little, little Hampshire I think it was. Near Worthing. Down there. And so here we had to come back and finally get a train down there and that’s how I arrived at Ford which was a marvellous station.
AP: Sorry. Ford, did you say?
KM: Ford. F O R D.
AP: Yeah.
KM: But from Arundel we used to come down the road and over the railway line and a winding road down into the, into Ford which was a very good ‘drome, you know. And I think I finished up in B flight. B flight I think. There were two in the squadron And, and that was about it I think then. Do you want me to carry on?
AP: Please carry on. A whole story we want.
KM: Well, I met a wing commander. God, I forget things now. Big fellow and of course I think I’ve got, no I lent Bob Cowper book to a friend. Any rate the wing commander said, How do you do,’ and he told me what pilot I was going to be on and everything like that. And he, he was a good pilot but wasn’t very popular because he thought everybody, thought, he thought everybody was not up to his standard you know. So, but any rate I went down in the [unclear] I think it was and we had to do quite a few exercises at night, you know. And, and it was beautiful weather down at Ford down there because the summer was from, from June onwards. Right all the way to Christmas time. It was good weather down there so, so my first thing was to go up and shoot down the buzz bombs you know. And one day we had to go to — there were searchlights. S for Sugar and T for something else. T for Tear or something like that. And the ground control said to the wing commander, he said you need to go to — is it, what’s the name? Tearing or something like that. And he said to the wing commander you’ve got to go to tear west or something. He said, ‘I’m tearing west,’ he said. Which was a great big joke and he got the wrong thing altogether. But we went to S for Sugar and stayed there. And he could, he used to get up about, say about eight thousand feet you know. Angels height you know and look towards the French coast and you could see them coming because the fire out the back of them used to light up. And he said, ‘There’s one coming towards you.’ So up at eight thousand feet he said, ‘When it gets close enough you start to go down behind him.’ Like that. ‘Get right behind him and just press the trigger you know.’ And we were just about to do it on one thing and a Canadian fellow in a, in a single engine aircraft got in front of us and shot it down himself and he was put on a bad books. And the fellow was very cross about that but, but anyrate so we didn’t get any more from then. But, but one fellow in 85 Squadron, they were on Ford with us as well and Cat’s Eyes Cunningham was in 85, and his name was Mellish. And strangely enough I read in the paper one day and it had a thing about things in Great Britain. Quite a size. About that size in the paper and said he finished up a wing commander. He was, I think he was flight lieutenant then but he shot down eight when he was up for three hours. Eight of them. God. But he died probably about, oh about five years ago I think. But —
AP: Sorry. When you were shooting down, when you were chasing the buzz bombs.
KM: Yeah.
AP: You were in a Mosquito at this point?
KM: Yeah. In Mosquitoes. Yeah.
AP: And you were obviously talking to ground control.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: So they would, they would tell you that they could see one coming on the radar.
KM: Coming. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
AP: And just sort of, did they give you like vectors towards it? Or did they say it’s over —
KM: Yeah. Yeah. We — I think [pause] my memory’s going but yeah it’s one’s coming. Go to vector say to the right hand. Like that usually. So they, they would come down like that behind. Yeah. They go to a vector but it’s just forgotten. It was to the right. Usually to the right so we could do the left hand turn and come down. So we enjoyed all that. It was great so, and then what happened after that? [pause] Oh, we went down to B Flight and we used to get — they had a — what did they call it? On a slate or something. And they would be first say about 8 o’clock at night for three hours. And we’d go into France. Go into Le Touquet. There was a little inlet in there. There’s as I say Beachy Head about there. About here. Le Touquet’s across there. Used to go across and then go up to Lisle. Again, a man on the ground used to tell you what to do sort of thing. But did you know Fred Stevens at all? He, funny he’s got a friend down here I was talking to last night. He was one of the best pilots on 456 and the just natural to fly and, but my pilot was Karl McLennan. He was a very experienced pilot who [pause] he was 3 Course out of Australia and he did a lot of, as a to teach pupils you know. And finally came to, to Cranfield. I remember I was reading the paper one day and he came in. The bar was across there and he said, he looked around and he saw me with an Australian uniform on. He said, ‘Oh g’day. ‘G’day.’ He said, ‘Want to have a beer?’ I said, ‘I don’t drink.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, and after a while I was reading this and I thought I should do something and he said, ‘Are you sure you don’t want a drink?’ I said, ‘Oh ok. I’ll come over and have one.’ So that was my first beer.
AP: [unclear]
KM: So anyway, he said, ‘Are you going to crew up with anybody?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘What about me?’ and I said, ‘That’ll do me.’ He told me all about 3 Course. And I said, ‘You’re much more experienced then I am,’ you know but at any rate he said, ‘No. We’ll go together.’ So we did and he said, he talked to me, he said, he said, ‘Look, I’m what you’d call a live coward,’ he said, ‘So no fancy stuff. I’ll do exactly what I’m supposed to do,’ you know. Any rate he was a very good pilot you know. So we did, we did some cross countrys’ over as I say, over to Wales and back to High Wycombe. Up to Lincoln. Up there. And then back to, to Cranfield. And then there when we went down to Ford just before D-Day we were — I had, they had to show me as a navigator on Mark 10 radar which was a different sort of thing. So I had to go to Twinwood Farm which was a satellite of Cranfield for a month. So I missed out on Normandy. And [pause] but I learned all on how to work all the gubbins in a Mosquito. The pilot got in first across there. Quite small you know. He was rather chubby because he drank a lot [laughs] Mac. But, and I, I had the set there on a sort of a pulled out sort of thing and he sat there and I sat here. I used to pull it out when he got in. Pulled it out here and have it on the radio sort of thing which is with a dividing line down like that. That’s left or right sort of thing. And one for height sort of thing. Across like that. So it had a range of a hundred miles so if you, say you were coming back to England you just, and every aerodrome had a code you know. Say BA and AB or something like. And you wanted to go to that destination you knew what their code was and he just turned the aircraft around so it was dead in front of you like that. Whatever height you wanted to do. You either go up or down. And just sit there. And when you come to almost there you just knew exactly where you were and, and so when you got to say, Ford it was going beep beep beep and down you go. And that was great you know. Coming from say Germany there you just, just set it for where you want to go and a range a hundred miles so, you know —
AP: So this is Gee?
KM: Eh?
AP: Is this the Gee system?
KM: No. We had the Gee later on.
AP: Oh ok.
KM: Yeah. When we went for longer trips in Germany and you need that to — you had two. Two maps as a matter of fact. You had one that was going to certain distance about there. Then you’d get the other one would go further on. In fact one of our senior navigators he kept on using the first one and he [laughs] his pilot, Smithy said, ‘I don’t think we’re going the right way.’ And he said, ‘I’m in charge. I’ll tell you where you’re going.’ Anyway, he was going to Germany and, Smithy we called him, he was a pilot, he said, ‘I can see lights down there,’ he said, ‘It looks like Switzerland.’ Oh he got a black mark for that [laughs] But but he had to use his second one but they were very good.
AP: So the — sorry the first radar you were telling me about. That’s a navigational radar or an airborne like interception radar?
KM: In the aircraft yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. It’s in the aircraft but —
KM: Yeah.
AP: Sorry. Was that for navigation or for finding fighters or something?
KM: Yes. Yes. Yes, a blip would come up.
AP: Yeah.
KM: A blip. Yeah. We were one, not that far from Berlin. We used to go over there until the petrol. Had to watch out that we had enough petrol to get back again. We used to circle the aerodrome. And it was a bright moonlight night. I remember that. And we were going around like that and I said to Mac, ‘I think we’d better go home in a moment because, you know the petrol is getting down a bit.’ So, you know, I just spoke to him. I just, like that, and I saw an aircraft about a hundred yards away sort of thing. I said, ‘There’s a German right there,’ and I said, I said, ‘Lose height. Left hand turn,’ which we used to do. Lose height. Went down like that. Ok. And then of course all of sudden they had the lights on the fellow. All the lights went out you know. And it came back and we couldn’t see too well then but we could see the runway and that sort of thing and it had all the, you know the, what do they call them? Sort of the pens where the aircraft went into and we went up and down the runway shooting all those things that we could see. We’re not quite sure whether we hit this aircraft. But at any rate the next one to start firing back at us so we did another run too and did all what we could about what we could see on the ground. And then we decided to go home after that because we were getting short on the petrol. So that was a bit of an unfortunate thing but just seeing that bloke but he just appeared. I can see him now just out there. But anyrate we went home again and we used to do that sort of thing, you know. Quite often. Circle the aerodrome and see what’s coming.
AP: So —
KM: They were getting short on their for petrol. The Germans. You know. And, but I’ll tell you about the last thing that we did. Bob Cowper picked us to go with him down to a place call Linz on the Danube. Way down. Almost to Budapest sort of thing. Down there. And the river came down like that and it went down like that down south a bit. About twelve miles down was an aerodrome and we were going to go. And we had a squadron leader from the, the, what are they called? It was all the big wigs down at Ford. And it was going to drop a napalm bomb on the aerodrome down there. Anyrate, he, it was a bright moonlight night and we went all the way. We went to Juvencourt, just out of Paris and we got more petrol and carried on down to, to Linz down there. And we had just arrived and I could see it in the moonlight. We got there right on ETA. I could see them in front of us. And then we had to go to the right hand side, down south and go to the aerodrome. Drop these bombs sort of thing. And anyrate this squadron said, ‘I’ll lead down,’ you know. And he went down then. About half way down he put a flare out and we said, ‘Oh, you’ve put it in the wrong place.’ You know. And all he could see was a farm, cows and everything else. And we said, you’re only halfway down there so he went on down there and he said, he went round an aerodrome and he said, ‘I’ll take the in charge. I’ll do the first run in now.’ And he went down then. He went down because they were ready for him I think. He said, ‘I’ve been hit already,’ he said, ‘I’m going home.’ So that was all he did all night. So, we said we, we were going down so we went down once. Did a left hand turn over the river there and came back again like that. And just as we got around to go down again on the aerodrome some tracer bullets came right past my ear. My hair went up like that. And it just missed us actually. And anyrate we, I mean say that that’s the river down there. We went down like that we came back like that. Came down. Did another run in again and that’s when the tracer bullets came across there. But we did it again and again they were ready for us again because somebody — I don’t know who did it, it must have been on the other side of the river there. It’s quite high up there because I can remember it seemed to be coming down like that you know. But anyrate, we did the same thing again you know, circled. They were ready for us again. But anyway came back and Bob Cowper said, ‘What a mess up that was,’ you know. Bob Cowper was going to do everything and did nothing you know [laughs] But strangely enough Bob Cowper went down to Ford one day and he went down to the intelligence and saw what this fella said. Said it was a great success. Which was [laughs] we were very upset about that but so that was about it and then back to Bradwell Bay and on May the 8th, you know, the Germans decided they’d had enough. And, and then on — Mac had been getting into the liquor all the time and he got, what do you call it? Like jaundice. Sort of thing. Had to go to hospital. And then they asked 456 and another Mosquito squadron to go to the Channel Islands where the Germans were going to fight on. And so they went. Three — two, two lots went down. Went down to quite low and first said if you don’t we’ll give you, we’ll shoot the whole lot of you, you know. So they finally decided. So the war finally finished on the 9th of May. So you know that was about it I think. But so we went, we were supposed to come — the rumours said we were probably going up to Burma, you know, when we get back. But we went back to Brighton again and stayed about a week I think. We had a little car. I’ve got a photograph of it over there as a matter of fact. And we had to drive up to post this out in the east end of London and we had to go across — was it Dartmoor or something? Where there’s a ferry used to go across and you go up the hill like that to this place where they had all, they got a whole new or old cars He came from nowhere. He was a [unclear] actually. We saw it. We went up there and he said well go back to that fella and see what he’ll give us for the car, you know. We bought it for thirty seven pound and went up there. He came around and he went all through it like this looking. And said, he said, ‘Eighty pound.’ So he said ok. We said, ‘Can we have for it about a week because we’re going to Brighton.’ He said ok. We came up here in a week’s time. He came up and John Darling who was a great mate of mine he was, he was driving and he came across this thing. This ferry or something. And as he came up the hill that. It was hard to get. I think I said, ‘Put your foot down.’ He said, ‘I am,’ he said. Going up the hill he said to me, ‘It’s just about gone. The engine.’ So anywhere we got that, this [unclear] came around. He went all over it. He looked up, he said, ‘Well, there’s a mark on the ceiling.’ And he said, ‘No. I won’t give you eighty. I’ll give you seventy five.’ So we said ok. We got our seventy five. Rushed like mad and got on a bus and went back and went to the very posh hotel. I can’t remember the name again. I was trying to remember it this morning. And we had a night there and spent the whole seventy five [laughs] Oh dear. But so that was the end of our story really but —
AP: So, I might go back and fill in a few gaps. You mentioned a few little bits and pieces that I’ve sort of —
KM: Yeah.
AP: I’ve grabbed hold of there.
KM: Yeah.
AP: You said you met your wife at Cranfield. Can you tell me that story?
KM: Well, I went to Cranfield and that’s as I said where I met Margaret. My wife. And well, no we just, we just carried on with that was Cranfield. I’m forgetting things now but [pause] it was, is it the second one that was at Ouston. Number one. It was, what would you call it? The EFTS or something like that. There was a name for it and then you did all that and then you went to the squadron.
AP: Operational Training Unit perhaps.
KM: Yeah.
AP: OTU.
KM: The word. That’s right.
AP: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. But Cranfield was a lovely station. A peacetime station. And, and we had a beautiful cricket ground there and we had married quarters, you know. You used to go out two story ones and that’s how I met Margaret actually.
AP: Did you get married in the UK?
KM: No. No. She was still in the air force down in Benson near Oxford. And she was still in the air force but we’d gone then from Liverpool back home again. And no, she came out in September 1946. Yeah. And we were married on the 15th of, of November. So we’ll be seventy years married in November.
AP: Wow. Wow. So was she, she was in the WAAF?
KM: Yeah.
AP: What was she doing in the WAAF?
KM: She was one of the managers of the, of the officer’s mess.
AP: Ok. Cool.
KM: Margaret. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Margaret. Cool.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Lovely. You also mentioned something about when you, when you were young. When you were thirteen, I think.
KM: Yeah.
AP: That triplane.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Or the tri motor thing.
KM: Yeah.
AP: Tell me about that.
KM: Well, I don’t know why it came out here but this man was a very experienced pilot. He was a civilian sort of chief sort of thing but, no I always sort of wanted to go into the air force but but that flight it was a lovely day. Went all around the bay and that sort of thing, you know. That’ll do me, you know so, but at that stage was in Russell Street they had the air force sort of recruitment place. But they had enough at that stage and couldn’t take any more you know. In fact another thing. When I went on leave in England I think every six weeks you used to get a leave and that Lady Ryder’s Scheme that said do you want to go to the country or a town? Do you want to play golf or, you know. I said, ‘I want to go to Scotland and I want to play golf,’ and everything else. So anyrate I got up to Aberdeen and I got a train out to a place called Stewartville and I think I’ve got a map there. And I got out and we were with another fellow. This one from Somers, you know who was a navigator with me and there was a horse and cart there and where we were going. He took all the bags and he said, ‘I’ll drive you to the general’s place.’ He was the number one general in the UK at the beginning of the war. A very nice old man he was. And, anyrate, he had, I got it in my photographs in my album there. So, we went there and he welcomed us in. His wife and so forth. At about 5 o’clock or about half past five, it was summertime and he said, ‘Come down and we’ll have something to eat.’ So we had some cookies as they do. And we had to get them out of the cupboard sort of thing and I said to [unclear] ‘Is that all we get for dinner?’ You know [laughs] Never had — what do you call it? High tea. That’s right. High tea. I went upstairs and I wrote a letter to my mother, “This is a very nice place and I’ve got to know a leading general but we don’t have much of a dinner here.” [laughs] And all of a sudden there was a gong went and down we went down. We had jugged hare. I can remember it to this day. But he was a very nice bloke and he understood. He said, ‘Look I’m old and you’re young.’ He said, ‘You want to play golf go to Peterhead.’ He said, ‘You can have a game there.’ So we got on our bikes. And the wind we could hardly get past it. It was just blowing like one thing and we got there and then we were allowed most of the golf clubs that people from abroad would be allowed to play you know. So we got there and he came around and he said, ‘Yes. Well, you can go around here. he said this way we can go out here and I said, ‘I’m a left hand.’ ‘We haven’t got any left handed.’ Oh God [laughs] they’re like that, particularly in Scotland. They didn’t like left handers so we went all the way there and did nothing. So [laughs] but no, there was, in fact he had a brother I think it was. Sir Charles Burnett, I think. Down at Crathes Castle just on the way to Ballater out of Aberdeen. You know, along the river there. And a beautiful castle. We had a lot of pleasure whilst we were there. And he was the chief of the Gordon clan, you know. And in fact part of the castle that he had was used as a hospital for people in from the war. And we went down there. We had lunch down there. And he came [laughs] he had a, he bought a great big bulldog in one day and we were fooling around like this, ‘Come on here,’ and doing this. And he could see the dog wasn’t too pleased about it and Bob like, it bit him on his wrist. He wasn’t too pleased about that either but, but it was a lovely place. They had gardens. There was. They had like a purple one. A yellow one. Green one. Red one. One, two, three, four going down the hill sort of thing. It’s a lovely place. We’ve been back there quite a few times. Crathes Castle. I’ll show you where it is. Have you got a minute?
AP: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I’ll give you a hand if you want.
KM: Yeah. [unclear]
AP: Oh where am I going? Ok. I can go and get it if you want.
KM: In the bottom drawer. On the right hand side there. No. No. No. Back here. Over here. Right hand side on the bottom one. There’s a map there.
AP: “Road Atlas of Great Britain.”
KM: It’s, yeah, that’s right. That’s it. That’s it. Yeah [pause] probably need my bloody glasses.
AP: Where are they?
KM: There. Right on [ pause ]
AP: Here. These ones?
KM: No. That’ll do. Yeah.
AP: That’ll do.
KM: I’ve got one. Another one. When I’m here it’s always over there so I’ve got two of them. That story. There’s Aberdeen. We went up here to — I’d better get this one but there’s Peterhead there. That’s about there this. The [unclear] yeah. Going out from there but what’s that? ’83.
[Pause. Pages turning]
KM: It’s been a marvellous book this one. I’ve kept it all those years.
[pause]
KM: There.
AP: Ah yes.
KM: Aberdeen. Went up in a train. Up here I guess. Stewartville. There we are. We went from there in a horse and cart. About there. That’s where he lived. About there. So, and then we got on our bike. Went to Peterhead there but no, there isn’t a station there but no I know quite a bit about Scotland. I’ve been about seven times now.
AP: Lovely.
KM: I’ll show you where Ford is.
[pause]
AP: Oh yeah. There’s Beachy Head there. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. Beachy Head. There’s a marvellous spot there. And living about here I think [pages turning] [unclear] See there’s Brighton and, and you see that’s a lady down there. She was at, she lived at Carshalton which is up towards London and she was, we used to stay with her. She had two hundred and fifty seven colonials. Australian, Canadians and that sort of thing at her house during the war. She was a marvellous lady, and anyrate at Carshalton Beeches two storey place. And the buzz bombs used to come over and she was out putting clothes on the line, and had a big fig tree there near the clothes line and she could hear the buzz bomb brrrrrr like this and didn’t worry to peg the things out. All of a sudden the sound finished. So she went for her life towards her dugout down there with steps on it and just got to the top and bang it landed in the back yard and blew all the leaves off the tree. And blew her down to her dugout down there. And she was bruised and that sort of thing. But it moved the house about a foot you know. So they had to move out of that and went down to Seaford. Down here. But she was a marvellous woman because she took it all in her stride. I would say [pause] Littlehampton. [Pause. Pages turning] Here’s Brighton. Came down to Worthing. Little Hampton. Now there’s Arundel. That’s where the big castle is. Played the first game of cricket there. Inside that thing is a cricket ground in there. And we used to have dances in his dining room once every a month you know. Because he knew, he knew the queen as a matter of fact. He was a cousin or something. But, but we used to ride down here. We used to have a swim down there. And but there were barbed wire along there as well but and our ground station was at Angmering, that’s right Angmering, that’s it. About there. That’s our ground station there and Ford was just, you just crossed the railway line there and just about there. That’s where the aerodrome was. There. That’s it.
AP: Oh yeah. I can see it says Ford there. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. But, and then, and then we had [laughs] used to play cricket down at Middleton Sports Club. There’s a cricket ground down there and 456 had a — I’ve got something about that over there. I’ll show you my book later on but we beat them down there. You probably don’t know about Charlie Kunz. A marvellous pianist. He was a Yank who came to Britain before the war and stayed on. He used to have a programme on the BBC. Playing the piano. It was called, “The Hot and the Cold.” He used to play softly and then louder. Softly and louder. Very nice. But he had a son who played in a team against us. He was only about seventeen I think and the fellow that opened the bowling was the captain of the other side. His name was, I’ve got it over there. He played for England actually and a medium fast bowler and I opened up with another fellow and he got three wickets or something straightaway but I stayed on. I made fifty. And I dropped one a bit short note went bang. Was almost six. This young kid stuck his hand out and caught it. He came in after the, after the match. Very nice clubhouse there. Two storey place with two squash courts there. And he said, he came and he said, ‘Would you boys,’ Don Darling and myself, ‘Would you like to go and see my father?’ And I said, ‘Who’s your father?’ He said, ‘He’s a pianist. He’s at the Hippodrome at Brighton.’ So he said, and he gave us the tickets and everything. So we went to see and that’s the first time I heard beautiful piece. Fairly old, you know. It was getting a bit grey. And at any rate the lead at the Hippodrome with Arthur Askey. Do you remember Arthur Askey? He was a comedian, you know. Little fellow. And he had a, he had on a stage. He was in front of it. Behind it I think a ladies toilet like that and he came on and he said, ‘I’ll now play for you, “By the waterfall,” you know [laughs] Oh dear. That was a good night. So anyrate we had we got quite friendly with his son and I went over there one day and I wrote a letter to him and he was back in London by that time. But he got an OBE because he — I think he might be dead now I think because he wasn’t too well the last time I got a card from him, you know. But yeah so that’s about the end of my story I think.
AP: I’m sure there’s more in it. What, what other things did you get up to while you were on leave in England?
KM: Well, it all came back and said, ‘If you want to go to this places. This is a beautiful spot,’ kind of thing. So this fellow by the name Luke. Luke I think. He came from Tasmania. He went, ‘Oh you ought to go. He’s got four cars. He’d got two squash courts, he said he’s got a cricket ground and he’s got a three storey house.’ I said, ‘Well we’ll go to that.’ I got one of my brothers to go there. Mr [unclear] — he had a brewery in the east of London. Mr — God, I’m forgetting names. Old fellow with a moustache, you know. And Mr [pause] he had a younger wife and he had gout and I said to him one day, ‘Do you mind if my brother,’ who was in the navy, ‘Comes up to see me?’ ‘Oh no. that’s ok. He can come up.’ So anyrate he came over and he stayed the night. And he had a butler as well. He used to come and say , ‘Your bath is ready, sir.’ You know [laughs] I forget his name. This was very posh this place. His wife was very nice. And one night we were having dinner one night and he used to sit at the top of the table there, I was here and she was over there and she said, ‘I’ll bring the grandchild in now to say goodnight to him. He came and said goodnight to him and when she went out of the room he went down and he had a whicker sort of thing. Almost to the table. Opened it up and he had a gin or something with like this [ laughs] pushed it back before his wife came in. But it was a lovely place. I stayed there about a week, you know. I don’t know whether you know about Bill Edrich . He was the opening bat for the English Test Team. Came out to Australia in 1946 I think. And he was a flight lieutenant in the air force and his father was the manager of the estate where this Mr what was his name? I can’t think of his name but anyway when he stayed at his estate he he had an aerodrome on one part of his estate. A Yank aerodrome. And across the road was a place called [unclear] I think it was. And the fella in there was, came from Lancashire and he was a sir something. Sir Humphrey. Sir Humphrey his name was and he owned quite a bit of Lancashire up there. I think the, the Yorkshire ground was one, was on his land as a matter of fact and [laughs] we had, we had a pheasant shoot down at the one I was staying at. And they had all the men in the estate going beating to the, to get the pheasant out you know. Going around like that. He had to get in turn. He said, shoot when I, when you want them to fly. Bang. Knock one down. At any rate we both knocked one down and Humphrey, you know, Sir Humphrey [unclear] and this this fella from Tasmania, ‘Come on Humphrey. Come on. Get one,’ you know. Took him about five shots to get one. We didn’t know he was Sir Humphrey. Whatever. And he was the one we stayed with. His wife said, ‘I’d like to introduce Sir Humphrey.’ So we found out he was Sir Humphrey. So, but yeah but that lady, Lady Ryder used to do it for everybody. You could go down to to Devon or, I went down to to Predannack. Right down at the end of England. Right down. Right down there. In fact 456 were going to go down there but they didn’t go. Somebody else took our place I think. So that’s how they came to Ford actually. From there. That’s about all I think.
AP: A couple more questions. A couple more questions. So you, we haven’t spoken that much about your operational side of things. What you actually did as a navigator and a radar operator. Did you have, in the — well first of all what sort of trips were you actually doing in the Mosquitoes?
KM: Intruder trips. We used to go usually quite often on a bright moonlight night you know and yeah, you’d go up and down their, what do you call their roads again. Not the freeways. Anyrate you could see them to go like that. Two or three of our fellas used to see a train, you know. You could see that when they opened it with the coke or something in there. And they were sitting ducks. They used to go down and knock them off. We didn’t see any of those but Ron Lytton who lives, used to live out near Essendon and — how long have you been out there Adam?
AP: Three years now.
KM: Oh no. He’s probably dead about ten. He was a, he was a plumber out there. And his, his and he’s still alive actually Geoff Reeves was his pilot. A very good pilot and he knocked over about two trains I think, you know. But we used to do those things. Anything we could see. And the Arnhem. You know the one bridge too far. We were on that day. It was foul night. God it was blowing like mad, you know. And we got on to there was one in front of us. I could see one and I said to Mac, ‘Turn left,’ you know,’ And drop height,’ and everything like that. And then as he went around and around and we were behind him going there there and there and he, Mac my pilot, he said, ‘I think he must be one of ours,’ he said because we could turn inside a JU88. You know, get in beside him. He said, what about it? He said what was our call sign [pause] oh God I’ve forgotten that but he called out, ‘Is that one of our crowd?’ He said, ‘Yeah B,’ he said [laughs] and he said, ‘I’ve been chasing you,’ he said. ‘No. You’ve got the wrong one.’ So, but, but on Arnhem the [pause] oh yeah. We had a fellow called Woodhouse or we called him Woody as a matter of fact who was a leading ground controller. And they ,they took him over and they were going to parachute him down and then and he had some, a glider or something there put down what he needed to contact us in the air. So anyway he got down there but the Germans were waiting for him. Grabbed him, you know. So, so we never got any call about the Germans at all in the air. But, but we went up to, to Arnhem. Now, what happened there? Oh that’s right. As I say terrible weather. So we were going along and got St Elmo’s Fire. Have you heard about that? All along the wings. What’s going on here? You know. Anyway, we got out of that. But anyroad we got off course and everything else. We didn’t do much about that but after doing that chasing that bloke and this thing I didn’t know exactly where I was. And going home to England Mac said, ‘Well, where are we now?’ I said, ‘Well, about the time we went home now I think.’ I said, ‘Just go to the west. We’ll get to England someway.’ So in fact we got up to The Wash, you know. And we were down at Ford you know. In fact we started our flight at Manston which is down, down in Kent. Down there. It’s a very big aerodrome. Three runways you know. So big aircraft down that one. The middle one was ok. Anyone in trouble be on the right hand one. But we got, when I got back we were at The Wash which was probably about a hundred miles up to the north. And we turned down. I said to Mac, ‘Turn down south again.’ We got down there and then the, the, what was it? He couldn’t get the wheels down or something. The hydraulics didn’t work. So I had to get down and I had to pump it myself. I finally got them out after about half an hour but so we landed back there. So, but that was quite a night actually. But I’ve seen that. We’ve seen that film about one bridge too far.
AP: I haven’t seen it but I am aware of it.
KM: It’s very good.
AP: [unclear] Yeah.
KM: How did I get it? I don’t know where I’ve got it. It was over there. It had all the well-known actors in that one. Sean Connery’s in it and a lot of them. It’s a very good film actually. But I went to see it too as a matter of fact. There’s a bridge over the, where the they stopped the Germans actually there. But I went over to Normandy with a friend of mine. A cousin of Margaret’s actually. And they’ve got a sort of a museum there as well but there’s— have you ever been to Normandy?
AP: I have.
KM: Yeah.
AP: I have yeah. I spent a few years over there so —
KM: We went together and was over. And that was good too.
AP: But you said you missed Normandy because you were in a training programme.
KM: Yeah [unclear] on that but —
AP: What did, what did you think of the Mosquito?
KM: Beautiful. Nothing wrong with it at all, you know. I said that Don McLennan said the Halifax went, loaded up went to the left and then the right, you know. This went straight down. A very good pilot Mac. Once we were going down I used to go, he would drop it down. H would just go [unclear] very good. He was a good pilot Mac. Poor old Mac. He died probably about twenty years ago. He had Parkinsons Disease you know. I think it might have been all the beer he drank.
AP: How did you find adjusting to civilian life after the war?
KM: Eh?
AP: How did you find adjusting to civilian life after the war?
KM: I didn’t mind it. I I went into work. I was still in uniform. I didn’t have a suit. And Malcolm Roberts said to me, ‘Do you want to come back to work?’ And I said, ‘Oh yes,’ you know. And he gave me five pounds worth of salary [laughs] per week. And so I went to a place in, in Flinders Lane. He was one of our clients and I went in there and strangely enough he was the son of the chief there. Wade. You know. Evan Wade. And Terry Wade is over here in Doncaster. He’s still alive as a matter of fact. His wife’s dead unfortunately. But anyway so I did work there and I went back and forth until about 1948. Then I became a chartered accountant then. I went to RMIT to finish my course and so after a while he said to me, ‘Do you want to come over and be the secretary up here?’ So I went home and said to my wife what about — I’m not quite sure about it but anyway decided to give it a go and I was there for twenty one years. So, well worth it. So was that about it?
AP: Any, any final thoughts on your air force service?
KM: Eh?
AP: Any final thoughts on your air force service?
KM: No. No.
AP: What you got out of it.
KM: No. I got the, I got the Legion of Honour over there.
AP: Oh excellent.
KM: Yeah. But that was, that came later on, you know.
AP: Of course.
KM: But it was mostly the intruder trips that are as I say we’ve got the lady up in Canberra and had them all put down where I went to and that sort of thing. And then I was surprised to get it but I’ve got it over there as a matter of fact. You see the one, the blue one there on the [unclear]
AP: This one here.
KM: Pop it on there. My sister did that for me. Take the top one. That one. Yeah.
AP: Oh yeah.
KM: That’s it.
[pause]
KM: Is that? Is that —
AP: Oh this is the presentation is it?
KM: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Ok.
KM: That’s [unclear]
AP: Yeah. I see that.
KM: That’s the man who put them on. He gave you a big hug [laughs]
AP: Of course because he’s French. I see Gerald there as well.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. Gerald. Funny. He came in the same day as I. His son came out of Norway for it.
AP: Fantastic.
KM: But yeah. But — yeah.
AP: Alright. Well —
KM: Well —
AP: Well, I think we’re done. Thank you very much.
KM: Thanks Adam. It’s very good of you to come all this way.
AP: Oh it’s alright. I love it.
KM: [unclear]
AP: I really do. I’ll just turn the recording off.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Kenneth William Munro
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adam Purcell
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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AMunroKW160522
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:25:28 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Austria
Austria--Linz
Canada
England--Bedfordshire
England--Northumberland
England--Sussex
France
Great Britain
Great Britain Miscellaneous Island Dependencies--Channel Islands
Netherlands
Netherlands--Arnhem
Victoria
Victoria--Mornington Peninsula
Victoria--Mount Martha
Western Australia
Western Australia--Bunbury
Western Australia--Busselton
Western Australia--Geraldton
Western Australia--Moora
Description
An account of the resource
Ken was a 456 Squadron Mosquito navigator. He initially joined the Army’s Victorian Scottish regiment but changed to the Royal Air force. He was selected to be a navigator and sailed to Canada. Ken did a course at Edmonton and was made an officer. He then sailed back to Scotland and went down to Brighton. After undertaking a new course on radar, he went to RAF Ouston to learn how to operate it. He flew in Ansons and Beaufighters before going to Cranfield to fly Wellingtons. Ken met his wife there, a Women's Auxiliary Air Force who managed the officers’ mess. He was due to join Bomber Command but eventually became night fighters aircrew and joined 456 Squadron. Ken was stationed at RAF Ford.
Ken describes how he met his pilot. They initially shot down V-1s flying Mosquitoes. They went to northern France and did cross countries. Ken missed D-Day as he was training on Mark 10 radar at RAF Twinwood Farm. They did intruder raids. He describes going to Linz and Linz and their encounters with fighters. His squadron, along with another Mosquito squadron, were sent to the Channel Islands and was instrumental in the surrender German forces stationed there on 9th May 1945.
Ken was a recipient of Lady Ryder’s Dominion and Allied Services Hospitality Scheme and describes some of the hospitality and leisure pursuits he experienced.
After the war, Ken received the Legion of Honour.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
456 Squadron
85 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
Beaufighter
love and romance
Mosquito
navigator
Pippo
radar
RAF Cranfield
RAF Ford
RAF Ouston
RAF Twinwood Farm
training
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/558/8825/PStempJ1502.1.jpg
cfe10a514ff45b328abec6f3cbbb1c5e
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/558/8825/AStempJE151016.2.mp3
732c55fd46196ec43670b0ef9903c0ee
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stemp, Joe
Joseph Ethelbert Stemp
J E Stemp
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stemp, JE
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Joe Stemp (1602809 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 578 and 77 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: This is an interview with Joe Stemp, a navigator on 578 Squadron and later on 77 Squadron. My name is Adam Sutch and the interview is being conducted at Upton St Leonards, Gloucestershire for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. Joe, thank’s so much for agreeing to the interview. I’d like to set the scene by asking you to describe your life before joining the Air Force. A little bit about your home, your parents and brothers and sisters, that sort of thing.
JS: I had a very happy boyhood really. I had one brother and one sister and I’ve always been a very independent guy. I’d always earnt money and done jobs on the side. I was actually working full time in an advertising, not an advertising, a housing agency at sixteen and doing quite well. And I suddenly realised, a friend and I, that we’d like to join the Air Force. So, we went to Oxford University and did that exam over a weekend there. And out of the thirty people who were there, ten straight away were cancelled, scrubbed, because they were colour-blind. That left twenty of us and we had this serious examination. When we finished they called us in, one by one. My friend went in before me and he came out nearly in tears. I said ‘Why?’, ‘He wasn’t the type of pilot we need, he hadn’t got the right attitude’. I said, ‘Why?’, ‘They asked me what I was doing when Mr Churchill said “Every man, woman and child should do something”’, ‘What did you do?’ Well he couldn’t do anything ‘cause he didn’t want to give his age away. So that was it, well I followed him in and they asked me the same question. But being this cocky bugger I used to be I had an answer for. ‘Well Sir, you can see I did pass the exam but I’ve had to study a lot at home in the evenings to make sure’. ‘Good lad, that’s the spirit.’ I’m in the Air Force, I’m in the RAF Association [laughs] and I never saw him after I joined. He was shot down actually eventually in Burma flying Spitfire, Hurricane. But I never saw him again, we were great mates but it was just one of those things. And so I joined straight away then.
AS: What did your parents feel about you joining?
JS: They didn’t say a word, I was most surprised. Now my father, who would have had a go, didn’t even complain. My brother was sixteen years old. He was doing an ITW course at sixteen years old and he did a dinghy drill course down into Torbay harbour. A bloody dinghy fell over, he went in, and in the water it was all the oil from the boats around, got into his ear and caused trouble in his ear. Eventually he had to have it operated on and he lost the hearing of his right ear. They gave him the option. You can stay in the Air Force and everything will be alright but you’ll never fly again, or you can leave on a pension. No answer to that. He left on a pension, got a great degree, ‘cause he was a clever bugger anyway. But, all those, he died last week, ninety years old.
AS: Oh, I’m sorry.
JS: But I was always surprised my father allowed us to go and do this.
AS: And you were under age as well?
JS: I was seventeen.
AS: And when did you leave school? Did you get matric?
JS: No, I didn’t stop on for it, I left the school at sixteen. I should have stayed on ‘cause I went to Ealing Grammar School and I was doing alright but I just suddenly thought ‘I must get on’. I wanted to get on and do something and there didn’t seem to be. We moved the school, the younger children went, were evacuated. We went to a school in Ealing which was girls as well as boys and it was a waste of time, we spent most of our time mucking about with the girls. [inaudible] it was ridiculous, I left and I’ve worked hard ever since and I’ve always been very independent.
AS: What year was this we’re talking about when you joined the Air Force?
JS: Oh, ’40, ’41.
AS: So, you’d been in Ealing, or London, when the Battle of Britain was going on?
JS: Oh yes, yeah.
AS: What was that like, the?
JS: It wasn’t so bad in Ealing but London was awful. I remember going to confession one Saturday night with some friends of mine, we were in Ealing, in South Ealing, and we looked up towards London ‘cause there were bright lights in the sky and it was the time when the Germans came over and had those terrible raids they did on the East End London, they really did. But because it was bad for morale they never talked too much about it did they, they kept it a bit quiet. They mentioned there was a bit of, a bit of bombing. They did terrible things the Germans. You didn’t have to be a navigator you got yourself on the end of the River Thames came up and you’re there!
AS: Glinting in the moonlight?
JS: Absolutely, yeah. [laughs]
AS: So, in those days I suppose Ealing was separated from London?
JS: Well Ealing’s always been a, always a very private sort of borough, queen of the suburbs style of thing you know? They’ve always fancied their chances and it was a very nice place to live really. I went to work for this Barrett and he was as drunk as a lord and his sons had gone in the Army and he couldn’t run the business so. I know this sounds silly but I was sixteen and I was running his business for a year. Then after that I asked for a rise and he gave me about half a crown or something, so I told him to stuff his job and I joined the Air Force.
AS: That was how you came to join the Air Force?
JS: Yeah. [laughs]
AS: Why the Air Force?
JS: I always fancied being a pilot. Because when I was a lad I used to go to Heston and, Heston airport in those days, and I used to love, and I always wanted to be able to fly. It was one of those things that I wanted to do, it was something that really I took on. But do you know why I wasn’t a pilot?
AS: No.
JS: I did the whole course, and they cancelled and blew me out. This is the honest truth, we did during the final course, and we took off and he told me what to do. And he said ‘Do you know where you are, son?’ And I said ‘Yes’, ‘OK.’, and we carried on and he said ‘Do you know?’ And I suddenly realised, I hadn’t a bloody clue where I was and I wasn’t really worried. But I was enjoying being up there. And at the end of the course he said to me ‘You’ve done very well’. he said, ‘but there’s only one thing wrong, you haven’t known where you’ve been from the moment we took off’. And he was right. And they scrubbed me and what did they make me? A navigator. Isn’t that typical of the Air Force?
AS: That’s a wonderful story and it doesn’t surprise me.
JS: No.
AS: A bit. Can you rewind a little? You, where did you sign on?
JS: Um, good question. I think it was Regents’ Park, I think. It was up at Regents’ Park area I know.
AS: OK.
JS: Because those hotels up there, aircrew were all based up there, trainee aircrew.
AS: Oh, this is Arty Tarty is it? This is the aircrew reception centre?
JS: Yes, that’s it. Yes.
AS: And everybody went there?
JS: They all went there regardless at one time and from then on, we just followed on. I finished up actually leaving there and going to South Africa, you mentioned South Africa, and I actually got my wings in South Africa. I enjoyed my South African trip I was out there for some months and thoroughly enjoyed it. Flying every day of course ‘cause the weather was suitable. I was looking through my logbook last night, ‘cause I haven’t looked at the logbook for years, at the amount of flying we did out there.
AS: So, you signed on and they sent you to Regents’ Park?
JS: Um.
AS: And then what happened between then and going to Oxford for this exam? Could you tell me about the exam that you took?
JS: Oh, the exam was before then.
AS: Ah, OK.
JS: Oh, that was the exam that we had the weekend. Thirty people turned up at Oxford University, the object being they were going to check us out ‘cause they were looking for pilots. Well, as I told you the first ten straight away were colour-blind, so they scrubbed them, leaving twenty of us. And it was quite a severe examination afterwards you know, mental examination. I managed to finish all right, I wasn’t that special. My friend was brilliant and he came top. So, he went in first of all for what they called the commanding officer’s interview or something. And the officers sat round this table and asked questions of the guy. And it was a shame really ‘cause they caught him on the hop really, and then they finally said to him ‘You’re not the type of person we want as a pilot, you haven’t got the right spirit at all’. And he was in tears, he came out and sat beside me and said ‘What do I, what do I do Joe?’ I said ‘I can’t believe.’ [inaudible] So I thought ‘Christ’. So I went in about two hours later and they asked me the same questions but I was a bit quicker on the mark than he was. I said ‘As a matter of fact sir’, I said ‘if you noticed I have passed the exam? Not desperately well but I passed because I studied a lot each evening to make sure I did pass your’. ‘Good lad, that’s the spirit.’ I’m in. [laughter]
AS: Excellent. So, you passed at Oxford?
JS: Um.
AS: Did you then go home and await some sort of call up or?
JS: I went home and waited and I was called up within about two or three weeks.
AS: As at that stage, PNB? Volunteer reserve?
JS: Yeah. Volunteer reserve.
AS: As a pilot navigator bomber? Bomb aimer?
JS: Yeah. A PNB yeah.
AS: Front of the aeroplane, executive office?
JS: [laughter]. Yes.
AS: OK, you’re called up and then presumably they had to try and make an airman of you, did they?
JS: Well they did. I enjoyed it really except that when I was first flying, I was OK and even the instructor that took me on the final check, he said ‘You fly well, son’. He said ‘but what’s the bloody good of having you up there if you don’t know where the hell you are?’ Which is true. When you’re seventeen years old you’re so excited you don’t care about where you are. [laughs] And it was as easy as that.
AS: Picking up on the excitement.
JS: Um.
AS: Do you think that the RAF knew you’d lied about your age and didn’t worry about it?
JS: Oh yes, I’m sure they did. I was seventeen, and I’m sure they, my brother was sixteen. When he left the Air Force with this pension, he was seventeen years old when he left, and he went straight to university, got a good degree, eventually finished up in Australia. He died last week, he was ninety, but he’d had a pension since he was seventeen years old. Isn’t that amazing?
AS: Turned out nice then didn’t it?
JS: Um.
AS: OK, so you were, you were in the Air Force starting pilot training, in this country was it?
JS: Yes.
AS: Whereabouts was that, and what were you flying?
JS: Tiger Moths. Reading. There was an airfield at Reading, we used to pass it on the motorway going down, can’t think what it’s called. Theale is it?
AS: Yeah.
JS: Theale I think it was, and we would train there, it was a pilot training school.
AS: And this was 1941?
JS: ’41. Um, yeah, long time ago.
AS: So still this was before the great move, the move to take pilot training abroad I suppose?
JS: Yes, yes and no it was, they were picking up people they wanted, particular people. Even the guy who, instructor, who interviewed me at the end on the final flight, even he said ‘You fly very well, I’m very pleased the training has been good, you fly very well, but what’s the bloody good of having you up here if you don’t know where you are?’ Which is absolutely true and when you’re seventeen it’s all exciting, you don’t, you don’t even worry whether you’re going to get down again or not you know? Yeah.
AS: You wanted to be a pilot, what sort of pilot? Fighter pilot?
JS: I wanted to be a fighter pilot, I didn’t want to get anything to do with bombers. I was a little disappointed. I ended up, as you know, I did a tour with 77 Squadron but, it wasn’t what I wanted but then that’s the way life works.
AS: So, you did, you soloed, did you solo?
JS: Yes, oh yeah.
AS: Marvellous, how many hours roughly did you do?
JS: I don’t know, I don’t honestly remember now. I quite enjoyed flying, it was, it was much easier than I thought it would be. The thing, it’s exciting really. You’re seventeen years old and you’re flying. And honestly, it’s nothing to, you can’t get over it really. It’s amazing.
AS: Superb. So, when you were told that your pilot training was going no further, what did you feel like, what?
JS: Heartbroken. I used to say that’s the day I started drinking. But anyway, I waited around a lot and I did all sorts of odds and ends, waiting for another course, and the other course was in South Africa. So, I went to South Africa to do my navigator course.
Unknown: Interruption.
JS: Went to this hotel at Harrogate. All the groups, gunners, wireless operators, pilots, navigators, all in this big room, talking to each other, and we meet each other and if we fancy somebody and start talking, the way like I’ve met you today, they’d say ‘We could be alright together’. Then they met somebody else, so I met the rear, the mid-upper gunner was a Scot, nice guy, and the flight engineer was a Welsh guy, that’s the chap who had to become into aircrew or else. Now the three of us got on so well. They, in turn, had friends, before I knew where I was I’m one of six. The next thing is we’ve got Henley, this is the skipper, wandering around looking for. And he picks, out of the blue, you know. [inaudible] I thought perhaps, I’d heard about crews in the past, how they all get on. They don’t. But of course, you can get a group, I mean it’s very difficult to say seven blokes getting on together, isn’t it?
AS: Um.
JS: But we did, three of us did very well. And we managed with the others, we didn’t fight or anything. But I told you I wasn’t a friend of the skipper’s and I never was going to be.
AS: But in the air you were a disciplined –
JS: In the air, we were good, in fact in the air only two of us carried on talking. We had no conversation in the air unless it was necessary. The only person to converse with him, me, because I’d have to, the others only if they had too. There was no common chat amongst us. I’ve been listening to other people and they said they talked all the time. They didn’t in my crew, my crew only spoke when they had to. I think possibly it was a good idea, I don’t know. I know that, put it this way, I never felt afraid. It wasn’t, or upset, it wasn’t until old Charlie Whatsisname blew up in front of me that I suddenly thought ‘Christ Almighty, it’s dangerous up here’. And it was a bomber, do you know it was a Lancaster dropped the bombs?
AS: Um.
JS: And after that I was a bit wary, a bit wary.
AS: And the Lancasters were flying higher than you obviously, yeah?
JS: Um. Do you know something? Think about it there were, there were seven of us obviously in the crew, and you could often get such difference in seven people.
AS: Did you see this on, on other crews that?
JS: Yes, I did. Some crews I remained friendly with until the end, and when we retired they were coming up for their finish. You had to do thirty, you had to do thirty ops. Well I done eighteen with 77, 578 and I had twelve to do and I signed up with 77 and everything went fine from then onwards. They liked us. I never forget going to the first meeting and the navigation leader said ‘Now look here’. he said ‘I’ll tell you new lads what’s happening’. So I said ‘Well we might be new lads but we do know’. He said ‘I’ve done twelve ops already’, I said ‘Oh, aren’t you clever?’ I said. ‘I’ve done twelve, I’ve done eighteen’. I said. ‘Oh.’ So in other words don’t give us any bullshit ‘cause we know what it’s all about. [chuckles]
AS: Can I wind you back a bit and cover the period from leaving OTU to joining the squadron? What happened when you joined the squadron? What was that process like?
JS: That’s a good question. It was very good because there were about five squadrons in this billet and I didn’t realise it, but they all knew each other and they’d all been flying together. But after we joined them everything, not because of us, but everything seemed to go wrong and we ended up with just two. They lost three.
AS: Three crews?
JS: Just didn’t come back, you know?
AS: Wow.
JS: But when we first went there everybody was, I mean, give you for example. Oh, I must tell you this, the first night I’m there I go to bed and I was a Catholic.
AS: Um.
JS: And you had to put your name on the back, it told you what religion you were, on the back of my bed. Well I went to bed about eleven o’clock time, going off to sleep. I was woken very severely about an hour later by a chap who’d obviously been drinking and said to me ‘That’s the other man’. He said to me, ‘You a Catholic?’ I said ‘For Christ’s sake man’, I said ‘It’s gone twelve o’clock, what are you worried about?’ ‘Are you a Catholic?’ So, I said ‘Yes’. So with that, he opens his pocket and he throws a little, you know, brown leather wallet, that big. He threw it to me and he said ‘Here are, you better have it. My old lady gave me this, what a lot of bullshit’. I said ‘For God’s sake, what is it?’ So I opened it up and inside was a Sacred Heart and one or two medals that his mother had given to him. I said ‘You can’t give that away’. ‘Why not?’ he said. He was a bit pissed anyway, I said ‘Because frankly your mother gave you that, it’s for you to keep’. ‘I don’t want to know about it’. So I said ‘Look’. He said ‘I’ll chuck it on the fire’. ‘Don’t chuck it’. Those fires in the middle of the room.
AS: Um.
JS: I said ‘Don’t chuck it, leave it, we’ll talk about it tomorrow’. So in the morning, when I woke up, he was fast asleep of course, I waited until he got round, came round, and I went up to him and I said ‘Look, this was silly last night, you must be sober now. You were pissed out of your mind last night, you didn’t know what you were talking about. Talking about your mother that way, and throwing that and giving this’. ‘I told you, I didn’t want the bloody thing. I don’t know why she give it to me. It’s an embarrassment’. I said, ‘What are you saying?’ I said. He said ‘Do you want it?’ ‘Well rather than do what you said’, I said ‘yes’. So I kept it. That night, he and his crew disappeared and were never, ever seen again. Isn’t that amazing?
AS: It’s, it’s amazing, but not unexpected. Do you, did you see other examples of that, of crews that knew they weren’t going to come?
JS: No.
AS: Back?
JS: I have seen people say that to me, they had a feeling. ‘Cause I’ve heard people say ‘Our leave is due Friday, let’s hope to Christ we don’t have anything between Wednesday and Friday to stop us going’. And they say, and that was always a bit of a dangerous time because it happened so often, that your leave was going to be on Friday, Wednesday night you don’t come back. The times I’ve seen it happen. You’re always glad when it’s done and when you’ve been and then you’ve got some more to come. Just waiting for one day off, very tricky. But I never forget him and the next day I took it to him and I said ‘Look, I still feel you should have this’, I said ‘ because I don’t feel right to have it. I know what it means to lots of people, apparently it doesn’t mean anything to you’, I said ‘but the fact is your mother gave it to you, would have made you change your mind and seriously’. ‘Don’t talk a lot of bleeding nonsense’, he said. I said ‘You’re sure now?’ He said ‘I’ve told you, that’s it. I don’t want to hear about it’. So, OK. And that night they went out and they were never, ever seen again. We don’t know whether they were kept, well we know they weren’t prisoners of war. They were blown out of the sky, it’s as easy as that. And so, I thought ‘Christ Almighty, I wonder if it’ll be better for me’. So it got that way and when I told my crew about this, before we took off, every time before we took off, they all went. And once, on one occasion, ‘Oh Christ, I left it in my best blue’. ‘We can’t have that’ they said. So, I had to get a WAAF quickly to bring a jeep round, rush round to my place to pick it up otherwise they weren’t gonna go, they said. It’s amazing, isn’t it, how these things happen? I think people do have such things as lucky charms and they rely on them you know? [inaudible] insist that everything is alright.
AS: Yeah, I think, I know you’re absolutely right. Did you as an individual, and you as a crew, always feel that you were going to come back?
JS: I did, yeah. I did. I never gave it a thought, I always thought I would come back. Even on a Friday night when I’m due to go on leave. I always felt it’s a bit tricky but I’m going to make it. Because the only thing was that I had a dread of being shot down in the water. Because I was the only swimmer in my crew, and we did a couple of tests, and it was absolutely ridiculous. As I was the only swimmer, I was the main person. I had to get up on the diving board, suit on and boots off, jump in the water, find the dinghy, turn it upside down to the proper way, then try and pick the others up who were hanging around the edge of the bath. Well I did this and got one or two of them but the skipper, he would not get off the wall. And the instructor who was doing the swimming said, he said ‘Get in there’, and he pushed and he went in the water. He went like mad, my skipper, nearly bloody drowned me, and in the end the instructor realised that I was in trouble. So the instructor jumped in beside me, between the two of us we managed to get the bugger out, and I thought if ever anything happens and it’s in the sea we’re finished. We’re finished. No case of, can you swim? We’ll be finished.
AS: So, this was dinghy drills in a swimming pool?
JS: In a swimming baths, yeah.
AS: Yeah, OK. What about drills on the aeroplane? Did you, as a crew, really practice those things, evacuating the aeroplane things like that?
JS: No, no, never. No, never. I, that’s a good question. But when you think back, I was never, I don’t recall, we ever worked on how we would get out should there be an incident. I don’t think we thought there would be an incident. I think we were going to be lucky. They always said as long as they got him with us, meaning me, we’re going to be alright. But the only time I never flew with that crew, the doctor said I mustn’t fly for twenty-four hours, nothing’s going to happen I thought, but something did. And that meant to say that they had to go with a spare and they went mad, they got shot to pieces. Honestly, I’m not exaggerating. I waited until the last aircraft had come back in the early hours of the morning and I thought ‘Christ’. We hadn’t even heard a message then suddenly, in a very dim way over the line, came a call to say they are coming but they’ve been badly damaged and they might have trouble, but they were hoping to make it, and they did. They made it and the next thing I was worried about was would the bloody thing turn over when they landed, like it often does. So the WAAF and I waited, and they landed, and everybody stood by, and it landed and it stopped. And we all rushed out there, and the crew, apart from the skipper who was panic stricken. He couldn’t move, he was panic stricken. But the crew come out, lit the old fags up. ‘If he don’t come, we’re not going.’ [laughs] And we had a terrible problem. I was the lucky charm, without me they said they wouldn’t have managed. Silly of course but that’s –
AS: Well it isn’t is it? It’s a really good insight to the crew as an organism. The fact that you didn’t necessarily get on, that you were the charm of the crew.
JS: Another thing, the fact that I was a Catholic. I said ‘That’s got nothing to do it with it, the fact that I’m a Catholic’. ‘Well you don’t fuck about the way we do’, they said, which I didn’t. I drank with them but they were shagging all over the place, my crew, they were terrible. And the skipper was the world’s worst. I told you they thought I was queer. That’s why they called these awful women, and they’d introduce those awful women to me. Why I never forget one girl, it was a shame. She was as thick as two planks and they introduced her to me and said ‘Joe’s alright, he’ll look after you’. She said ‘He’s a nice bloke, you’ll like him’. I didn’t want to know her, and she insisted I go home and meet her parents, and I thought ‘That’s the last thing you want to do’. And I kept. [laughs] As I say my, my crew were awful in that respect.
AS: How about the local population? ‘Cause Burn is, is in the part of Yorkshire where my family come from.
JS: Yeah.
AS: So, you have Goole, Selby, all around there.
JS: Burn.
AS: Yeah, what were the local population like to the aircrew?
JS: Very good, very good. The only thing that used to upset me was they had a lot of Italian workers in the fields.
AS: Prisoners?
JS: Um.
AS: OK.
JS: And I remember standing one night, finishing a fag and watching these Italians working, and they were watching us taking off, and you can imagine what they were thinking. ‘Where the hell are they going, who are they going to bomb?’ you know? And I had to go into hospital for a couple of days and while I was in there they, this Italian guy came in and he was in a very, very bad way, and his mates used to come and visit him and he said to me, one of his mates, his English wasn’t bad. ‘Are you a Catholic?’ And I said ‘Yes, I am’. ‘You couldn’t have words with him, would you?’ So I said ‘Surely’, I said. He said ‘He’s not going to go home you know, he’ll never go home again. We don’t know what to say to him, perhaps if you talk kindly to him, he might take it from you’. So I said ‘I’ll try’. So I did when the chap passed, before he passed out, I said to him ‘Look I’m sorry you’re like this, it’s such a shame because you look like a nice guy and you could make quite a world of it’. But so, I said ‘The best thing to do is do what they say and carry on because the war won’t last forever and then you can go home’. But he died about a week later.
AS: Wow.
JS: He just died and I felt bad about it. In fact, I even went to the funeral. I know I shouldn’t have done but I felt bad about it ‘cause he seemed such a nice guy. When you think about it, it’s very serious really.
AS: They’re people. Under the uniform we’re all people aren’t we?
JS: Um.
AS: So, whereabouts locally would you go from Burn as a crew, you know, for drinking or socialising?
JS: Oh, in York.
AS: In York, Betty’s Bar?
JS: Um. There was a, there was a pub in Burn but it was packed. We had our own pub in York which we used to attend and we used to keep, it was very wrong of us really, we used to keep the Yanks out. ‘Cause the Yanks tried to get in our pubs and we said ‘It’s not on, this is for British staff only.’
AS: Which pub was this in York?
JS: I can’t think which one it was but I know that, ‘cause the girls used to follow us rotten you know? In York ‘cause most girls wouldn’t have a lot to do with aircrew. Most regular girls as I call it, because they couldn’t guarantee, as they said, that you’d be here tomorrow, so we used to get all the tarts really. Well the lads didn’t mind, but I did. [aughs]
AS: Yeah, it’s an interesting slant on wartime. So, when you finished OUT, did you get a big notice up on the wall posting you to a squadron? What happened, what was the process?
JS: I cannot remember.
AS: OK.
JS: I think there was a group of us that had started at the same time, but we didn’t all go to the same squadron. I think, if I recall, we were posted to different squadrons. One here, two there and so on and so forth. ‘Cause in Yorkshire, Yorkshire was the home of the Halifax.
AS: 4 Group, yeah.
JS: And all the crews in it, that was Yorkshire, the Lancasters were lower down. So, what we did was, we all knew each other as crews, we used to meet and have a chat. There was quite a bit of rivalry between them and quite good humour too, between some of the crews. When I look back now it was a very difficult situation, because if somebody was killed or whatever, what did you do? We had this big joke, you’ve probably heard it, ‘Can I have your breakfast if you don’t come back?’ And that’s the way they were looking at it, ‘cause there was no other way of doing it. You couldn’t cry your eyes out about it ‘cause it could be you the next time. So, you had to get on with it, that was the way it was. ‘Could I have your breakfast tomorrow if you don’t come back?’ Um.
AS: Was, I know you talked about leave. Was there much contact, did you go home on leave? Did you have contact with family or?
JS: I was lucky I always went home on leave. I had money in my pocket, a good family who were dying to see me and I enjoyed it. But one of my crew, it was really silly, he’d been shagging around and leave came up and he got a dose. And I said, I went to hospital with him, and we sorted it out. And they reckon, he had a week in hospital and then he had to take it easy for a month or something and that was the way it was. And in the middle of all this he got involved with this girl again and I said ‘Look, Tom, you mustn’t do this’. I said, ‘What’s going to happen when leave comes round, you’re surely not going to go home and start on your own missus are you?’ He said ‘What else can I?’ I said ‘Well can’t you tell her some yarn about the fact that you’ve had trouble and that you can’t use it, but it’ll be alright in the future?’ ‘Um, I’ll try’, he says. So he did. So off we go on leave, when I got back after the weeks holiday he had my motorbike and he was waiting at the station for us. I said ‘When did you get back?’ He said ‘Oh, don’t tell me Joe, I’ve been home a week’. I said ‘Why?’ He said ‘I realised straight away when I got home that she knew there was something wrong. I had a terrible conscience, I didn’t tell her, and we just didn’t get on, and I sent myself a telegram to say “Return immediately”’. ‘Oh Christ’, I said. He said ‘What else could I do?’ I said ‘Well, I suppose you’re right, it’s a fact because you didn’t want to give it to your wife.’ Yeah.
AS: So, when you turn up on the, on 578, what happened then? You’re allocated to a flight? Or do you go on ops straight away or?
JS: Yes, more or less. When we realised the squadron was breaking down and we were going to be posted, we weren’t all posted to the same squadron. We were posted to 77 Squadron and when I got there, there were only two other crews came with us. So I should think the rest of the crews were split around the group ‘cause it was 4 Group. And I remember going in, I think I said a moment ago, when they had their first check up and the navigator was telling us new ones what to do and what it was like up there. And we said to him ‘How many ops have you done?’ He said, ‘I’ve done twelve’. And we said ‘That’s nothing’. [laughs]
AS: Get some in.
JS: ‘We’ve done eighteen’. But no, it was, it was difficult. I feel that on reflection it made one very hard. You had to be hard, it’s no good crying your eyes out is it about it? ‘Cause it could happen to you any time or anyone you were with.
AS: Doing the job when you’re, whether it’s 578 or 77 Squadron. Could you take me through a typical operation from waking up in the morning until it’s all finished?
JS: Well sometimes we’d wake up in the morning like today. And the navigators and the pilots would be called down, and we’d go to a meeting and they’d say ‘There’s going to be ops tonight, we haven’t got conditions at the moment but we’ll be calling an order about four o’clock.’ So we thought ‘Right that’s it, we’re on ops tonight’. And about four o’clock we used to go, and initially only the pilot and the navigator went and we listened to the place where we bombing, what we were trying to achieve, and so on and so forth. And with that we then opened the door and let the rest of the crew in and told them where we were going and what we were going to do and that’s how it was.
AS: So how did?
JS: It could only be hours before we took off.
AS: So, when did you do your flight planning?
JS: Well, flight planning. On the spot really.
AS: So was that after your pilot, nav briefing. Or after everybody had had the briefing?
JS: Well after the pilot, nav briefing we had an idea what we were going to do and where we were going to go, but how we were going to get there wasn’t ever discussed. It was never discussed. In fact, it wasn’t until just prior to going that we would talk about it. They used to discuss which way we would mostly take off and get to Reading, and at Reading it turned on to our target. I know it sounds silly but we were going anywhere until we got to Reading then we made for the target through Reading. That was our group you know?
AS: So 4 Group would fly across England, presumably avoiding London?
JS: Yes.
AS: And you’d have worked out your flight plan by then?
JS: Oh yeah. I tell you what did happen to me one night. We’d had a very long trip and we were very tired and coming back across France, I started to fall asleep. And I did just for a second or so and when I woke up, I looked around the aircraft, the gunners had undone their guns, everybody had heads down, including the skipper who was fast asleep. And we were over the, we were over England, but nobody knew where, ‘cause they were all asleep and didn’t care and I looked around and thought ‘Christ Almighty’. So I woke Ken up, he was the skipper, I said ‘Look, Ken, I don’t know how long you’ve been like this’. I said. He said ‘Oh it’s alright, it’s been on automatic pilot’. I said ‘I know it’s been on automatic, but how long is it supposed to be on for? Where are we, do you know?’ So he said ‘No, I haven’t a clue’. I said ‘That’s marvellous isn’t it?’ So I looked around, we woke the crew up and I thought ‘This is terrible, we could be anywhere, I know we’re heading north’ and then the Wash suddenly came into view. I could not believe my luck,. ‘cause as soon as I saw the Wash we knew where we were. But if we hadn’t have seen the Wash and it had gone on we could have been Scotland, run out of fuel and all had to bail out. That’s happened before as well.
AS: To you?
JS: No, no.
AS: To others on the squadron?
JS: I’ve had friends that it’s happened to, they just run out. Twice or three times – [knocking]
AS: So, Joe, back to a discussion on a typical mission if there is such a thing. You’d get briefed, did you air test the aeroplanes in the morning?
JS: I was only thinking that the other day when I looked at my book. We did very few air tests, very few air tests. I looked in here the other day. It’s amazing really, you’d have thought we’d have done more wouldn’t you? Because things were wrong with the aircraft and the ground staff, used to, when we got back, immediately jump on them to put it right. Nothing worse than an aircraft going wrong in the sky, you can’t do a thing about it you see, it’s got to be right when it leaves.
AS: Was that always the case with you, did you have issues in the air?
JS: Not really. I think I told you about, in there. [rustling of paper]
AS: But not mechanical issues? You didn’t have mechanical issues?
JS: Look at some of these. Silly things. Have you read this?
AS: No, not yet.
JS: Just have a quick look at it.
AS: OK. So, Joe, we’ll pick it up again, we’ve just had our tea. We were, we were talking about air tests. The fact that the aircraft, you didn’t test the aircraft very much so you had complete faith in the men?
JS: In the maintenance crew.
AS: Did you, did you used to socialise with them as well?
JS: Yes and no. Difficult. They all lived on the site which was miles from anywhere, outside and they used to live out there, virtually the maintenance crew.
AS: With the aircraft?
JS: Yeah. Awful. I’ve been out there sometimes in the winter, when they’ve asked us to come out, where we’ve had to sweep the snow off the aircraft to get it to go off and up, you know? The Halifax was a nice aircraft, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I’ve only ever once been in a Lancaster, I didn’t like it particularly, you had to climb over lots of beams and things to get to where you fly. But with the Halifax there was plenty of room inside. And we had also, on a couple of occasions, Ken said to me ‘You better check that bugger’, meaning the American that we’d got, or Canadian that was the mid-upper gunner, the turret under the aircraft, little turret.
AS: OK.
JS: And they used to fly on there, but they didn’t. I mean I never said anything, I didn’t drop them in it. But I’ve been back and they’ve been lying there half asleep having a smoke. They never went out of the turret.
AS: So, the Halifax’s were fitted, your Halifax’s were fitted with?
JS: Some of them were yeah.
AS: OK, yeah. Did you mostly do navigation or was bomb aiming your speciality?
JS: Bomb aiming was my speciality with 77. Actually, I was going to get an award. Well I got the award but because of a silly incident at Scarborough, I lost it. I didn’t realise it but they took away my DFM and they took away his DFC, very unhappy he was. My fault.
AS: So, you’d been recommended for?
JS: Oh, before then I was, on one occasion, I forget which one it was ‘cause I never made a fuss in my logbook. Some people wrote things in the logbooks but I never did. On one occasion I went in and I was a bomb aimer and I dropped the bombs so badly to the ground that it started one end of the rail centre, right down the line, through the station, out the other side, and ruined. I cut the whole bloody railway out of the business. No, I had a letter from them to express, to express you know what a good job I’d done. The next thing I know is, I’m recommended for the DFM. Oh, OK. But after the incident at Scarborough it wasn’t quite the same, um. I’ve seen some funny things happen to other people. They didn’t talk about it very much but you obviously know about LMF?
AS: Yeah.
JS: And we had, at one period, quite a lot of LMF. Except for one guy and he was, he came from New Zealand and his skipper came from New Zealand and he used to be a nice guy, bomb aimer. And I got friendly with him but he was very religious, and he’d done about sixteen ops and he turned to me one night and said ‘I can’t do this anymore, Joe’. I said ‘What’s up?’ ‘I can’t do this bombing business anymore’. I said ‘Well what can you do about it, you can’t say I don’t want to do it’. ‘Oh, I can’. I said ‘But’. He said ‘Well what am I going to do?’ I said ‘I don’t know. Think about it, think about it’. Well he did. He complained that he didn’t want to, and he explained that he didn’t want to fly anymore, and I thought they would go for him but they didn’t. They said ‘Look sunshine, you’ve done over eighteen ops so far, what are you worried about?’ And they stopped and took him off and they sent him home. So he was a very lucky guy.
AS: This was on 578 or 77?
JS: On 578.
AS: So, what happened to some of the other guys who, as you say, went LMF?
JS: Oh God, terrible. When I first joined 77 I was walking down towards the Sergeants’ Mess and I saw a gang of airmen that did all the dirty work, clearing up. And in charge was a bloke who’d obviously been a sergeant ‘cause they’d ripped the sergeants stripes and you could see where they’d been, in charge of this dirty gang. And as I got up close to him I realised it was a friend of mine called Sandy Mount, and I said ‘Hello Sandy, what’s?’ ‘I don’t know you Joe’, he said. Funny thing to say, ‘I don’t know you Joe’. And off he went with his gang. I went into the Mess, I’d only just joined the squadron, and I said, I mentioned it. ‘Oh, don’t talk about him’. I said ‘What is he doing?’ ‘He’s waiting to be sent away to the LMF place down on the coast where they really give you a bad time’. I said ‘Why?’ Apparently the first time he said there was something wrong with the aircraft so they cancelled it. The second time something else went wrong and he returned early, the third time, on the fourth time they realised that he didn’t want to do what he was doing, and they said he’d got to come off flying.
AS: And punished?
JS: And they took him off, called him LMF and put him in charge of all the blokes doing the shit [inaudible]. There was this New Zealand guy that I knew he done about sixteen ops and he turned to me, he was very religious, and he turned to me one night and said ‘Joe I can’t do this anymore. I don’t know why we’ve got into our states with this war, it’s not on’. I said ‘Well you can’t do much about it now, you’ve got to wait until you finish your tour’. ‘Oh, I don’t think I could’, he said. Well his pilot, who was also a New Zealander, went up to the CO and they explained the situation and the CO was very good. He said ‘I can’t say LMF, I can’t blame him ‘cause he’s an extremely good navigator’, he says. ‘but we can’t have this sort of thing ‘cause if anybody else starts doing what he does, what do we do?’ So, they sacked him but they sent him home.
AS: Lucky man.
JS: Which was the best thing they could have done. He wasn’t a coward, it wasn’t that, he just said ‘I can’t do this anymore. What are we doing, all this dropping bombs on people and killing them?’ He said ‘It’s not on, this isn’t warfare is it?’ His skipper actually, terrible part about [unclear} it was, I must tell you this, hell of a nice guy, they only had one or two ops left to do, the crew, not him ‘cause he’d gone. And they went missing. Never seen. So the skipper was killed, obviously the aircraft disappeared, isn’t that amazing? But he didn’t go with them ‘cause he’d gone home to New Zealand.
AS: Premonition or something.
JS: Isn’t it strange, this world how it works isn’t it?
AS: Absolutely. You mentioned he, the navigator, bomb aimer couldn’t go on bombing. What was the feeling in the country, say in 1944/45 about the bombing, what?
JS: We were heroes ‘cause we were doing a great job, we were knocking them about something awful. This is what it said about Bomber Command, there’s a big article coming out soon. 1944 we were heroes, marvellous, good lads, 1945 we were villains, bombing these poor Germans. That’s true, mind you we were bombing them. God forbid we gave them quite a hounding. I remember going to Essen twice, I remember Hagen twice and each occasion it was a write off. Because when the war was over we took some of our ground crew and the WAAF’s on a visit to see what we’d done and I was absolutely flabbergasted at some of the damage we did out there. God, terrible.
AS: And most of the time you’d been the bomb aimer?
JS: Yeah.
AS: And somebody else was doing the navigating?
JS: Um.
AS: Yeah.
JS: I worked, I, navigation’s a funny thing. It got easier as the time went on because we had a lot of equipment to help us. It was much easier than when we first started.
AS: What did navigation involve when you first started, when you were navigating a trip?
JS: They used to call it, there’s a name for it. Well, it means pencil and paper and get down to it, you know?
AS: Dead reckoning?
JS: Yeah, dead reckoning. Didn’t always work out either, had a lot of trouble with it. When I look back on some of the guys that I flew with and lost, it was very difficult really. You never knew, well I knew I was going to come back, which is the most important thing, but a lot of them began to lose confidence. When you find that you had not one awful trip but two awful trips and then you lose the bloody way and everything goes wrong. So you realise what can happen, and does happen, but it never happened to me. I was very, very fortunate.
AS: And, generally, were the ones you saw losing confidence, were they the ones that didn’t come back?
JS: Oh yes, yeah. Yes, it was a shame because, don’t know how to explain it. I used to like to dance and I used to go to dances as lot and one or two of the lads I was with came. Most of the crew didn’t go for the dancing they went for the booze and the girls and they never turned up until the last knockings to find a bird to take home with them. But some of them I met, and we lost them. It seemed sad to think we wouldn’t see them again but it was just the way it was. My crew were funny really in that respect. When I look back on old Henley, he was a terrible man, a terrible man, I didn’t treat him as an officer above me in any way whatsoever, ‘cause I hadn’t got that much confidence in him and I hadn’t got that much respect for him either. If I had I would have shown it but I couldn’t show him ‘cause I didn’t think he was that sort of a guy.
AS: In, did you used to go to the cinema and watch the news reels?
JS: Um.
AS: What did they say about Bomber Command?
JS: Well they maintained the fact that we were doing a very good job and that it was necessary. I don’t think it was towards the end of the war as necessary as they made it ‘cause we did some terrible things you know? We really did towards the end of the war. We really did tear the place apart.
AS: And did?
JS: I went to Hamburg one night and we made a terrible mess of it. Bugger me, two nights later, they sent us back again to finish it off. And we did, burnt it down. It was a, you get to a stage where you don’t care, it was as easy as that.
AS: It’s just a job?
JS: Um.
AS: But the excitement of flying that you talked about before, did that stay with you?
JS: Oh yeah, yeah. [chuckling]. I’ve had some good times in the air. When we first, when I first went onto Dakotas I loved it. Oh God we had some fun.
AS: So how did that, you were in 77 Squadron?
JS: Um.
AS: You finished your tour did you, you did thirty trips?
JS: Um.
AS: And this would be after the war, or just?
JS: No, it’s in there.
AS: Just as the war was finishing. So –
JS: Chevrolets. We were going to the Far East you see? So, we all trained, were trained to fly these twin-engine things, Chevers.
AS: OK. So, this is in May, end of May 1945?
JS: Yes.
AS: So –
JS: The war was over here.
AS: Yeah, so ops to Nuremberg in April, ops to Heligoland. Your last op was Heligoland in April?
JS: It was an island in the middle and it was the last. And I’ll tell you a strange thing, you mention that, only a few of us were there, about twenty, and I watched this happen. I watched a ‘plane above drop his bombs on the ‘plane below and blow two others out of the sky with him. Five aircraft - ‘Bang’. Honest truth. And I looked there with my skipper and I said ‘Has anybody got out?’ and he said ‘I can’t see a sign’.
AS: No ‘chutes?
JS: I don’t think anybody survived. This is bloody night, the last day of the war you know, isn’t that awful?
AS: And that’s what you see in daylight. The same thing must have happened at night time?
JS: Um.
AS: And 5 Group used to fly higher than you?
JS: Oh, they did yes. I, I’ve, we’d been extremely lucky with the aircraft that we had ‘cause some of them were beginning to get very worn out. In fact, I told you the one I was flying had done it’s hundredth op. This was its hundredth op when these Germans came. We’d been warned for weeks, ‘Watch out’. What was the word they called?
AS: Intruders?
JS: Intruders, yeah, yeah, intruders. What happened was, as soon as we crossed the coast this side the gunners undid their guns. The, everybody sat down, even the skipper. Set the target on automatic and went to sleep. Out of the blue, these bloody aircraft were with us and we never saw them. And they shot down twenty over where I was. One of my mates he was, he was in a terrible state. They tried to land but nobody would take them on, ‘cause as soon as they went into land the Germans would come and they would shoot the place up. But they did bail out and he landed in a tree in a churchyard and it was a big tree right up high, and his ‘chute got caught in the top so he was hanging there swinging. And he gets his fags out and he puts his fag in his mouth, and he gets his lighter out and drops it. [laughter], and he sat there, hour after hour, waiting for someone to come in the early hours of the morning. Nobody turned up until about ten o’clock to see him stuck up a tree. He was alive at least anyway. He got away with it.
AS: Yeah. As your tour progressed and we, you got H2S and G, was there a feeling that it was becoming more professional with a bigger bomber stream and more aeroplanes?
JS: I think so. I think it was the numbers that were telling, it was big. They couldn’t hit us back, we were too big. In fact, they couldn’t touch us with all their guns used together. The only thing they used to have were these intruders. They used to have jets and they used to come up from nowhere when the jets first started, but they were going so fast they used to fly past us and couldn’t hit us. By the time they turned round, we’d gone. But I’ve seen some very bad incidents, very bad incidents. When I look back on it now we used to joke and we used to laugh about things but it was a very serious business you know? When I think of all the chaps I’ve known that used to be mates of mine that have gone. We used to come home on leave and my brother Tony was there at the time of course, and he used to say ‘Why the hell you went into Bomber Command I’ll never know’. I said ‘Well, you must remember Tony, you didn’t intend to go the way you went. Life has its own way of going and there’s nothing you can do to stop it’. He ended up, as I say, deaf in one ear with a pension. Amazing isn’t it? Last week he died, ninety years old, ‘cause he put his age up about three years. He um, I could never understand why my Dad gave me such a bollocking for what I did.
AS: Tell us about that. This was when you went home in? He knew you were in Bomber Command?
JS: Um.
AS: And you were welcomed when you went home on leave?
JS: I finished my tour and I went home to finish. I told him I’d finished and Mum I wouldn’t be bombing anymore and Dad said ‘You shouldn’t have done it in the first place. What the devil you’re up to in there’. I said ‘This is what war is all about’. I said ‘You seem to forget Dad, that they bombed us first you know’. ‘I don’t recall that’. I said ‘I know you don’t ‘cause you weren’t here, you were in London, you were in the north of England’. I said ‘But they dropped bombs on us, it was just, we didn’t drop the bombs first, they did’. He said ‘Joe, all I can say to you is if you close your eyes and think back on all the people you must have killed you must have a terrible conscience’. I said ‘Well to be honest Dad, I’ve never given it a thought, but now you’ve put it into my mind I probably won’t forget’. Which I didn’t, and [inaudible] But what can you do about it?
AS: But he’d known you were in Bomber Command when you went home on leave?
JS: Yeah, I didn’t talk about it at all.
AS: OK.
JS: I never talked about flying when I was home. Never said a word. Never said I was flying ops or anything. Never said what I was doing. I just said that, they asked why do I get leave so regular. I said ‘Because that’s the way it goes’, you know. When I look back on it now it was regular then. But then you might as well take it ‘cause you didn’t know when the next one was going to be.
AS: And as crews disappear you go up the leave ladder?
JS: When I look back you know, God I lost some guys. I was thinking about you, I’m glad you came today, and I’m sorry that I carry on so, because I don’t ever talk about the Air Force, I certainly couldn’t do it at home. And my Dad, or even now at home with people. My girls don’t seem to realise and they don’t take any notice. I’m not bragging to be some sort of hero but I don’t really get involved in talks about it. Have a bit of a laugh sometimes with some of the funny things that happened, some of the songs we used to sing and some of the things we used to do.
AS: Can you still remember any of those songs?
JS: All of ‘em, yeah.
AS: OK.
JS: 77 has their own one.
AS: Yeah.
JS Then 578 was, started off – ‘We’re the pilot, otherwise Joe, we take him wherever we go. Berlin or [inaudible] wherever they send ‘em, it’s all the same to him. We’re the gunners, Dawson and Rear,[inaudible] with the flight engineer. It appalled us when they called us, we’d rather go on the beer. Navigations what I do, at least that’s what I tell the crew.’ [laughter] And things like this you know? The other one was, ‘77, 77 though we say it with a sigh. We’d rather work for Mr Bevan then we’d never have to fly’. And we had all these songs, and it was cheerful, it took your mind off what you were doing. We drank a lot and they knew we drank a lot and nobody corrected us. Because they used to say ‘The poor buggers they can’t guarantee they’re going to get any more drink’, you know? Whether they’d come back. We did lose so many guys.
AS: Yeah.
JE: We did lose so many guys.
AS: Yeah.
JE: And it wasn’t until after the war on my own I sat down and thought about it. And I’m not going to argue with my Dad, I’m not going to talk about it, I’m not even going to mention it to anybody. So, I didn’t say I was in the Air Force. I thought if I don’t say it I won’t have to talk about it or worry about it. Because some people thought I was a hero but some people thought we were villains.
AS: And this was quite quickly after the end of the war that things changed?
JE: Um. When I look back on it now, what a time to live eh?
AS: Well, it’s an experience. I mean did you ever think you’re getting airborne with two thousand gallons of fuel and twelve thousand pounds of bombs it was a bit dangerous?
JS: No, I didn’t, yeah.
AS: Did you?
JS: I tell you on one occasion, odd occasion this, we had a two-thousand-pound bomb hung up in the bombing rack, and the bloody thing wouldn’t go. Well, I was the smallest member of the crew, so I went, they hung me by my legs into the bomb bay with a hammer. And I had to ‘bang, bang, bang’ at the group until the bloody thing went. And it went, and after it went, didn’t it go with a bang? Christ Almighty! And the other time, of course, was definitely was my fault. Where we dropped the bombs on Scarborough. We should never have done them really, but we wanted, we were getting so close to the sea and yet we didn’t seem to be getting there. I thought if we don’t get there in a minute we’re going in. So, I pressed the wrong tit at the wrong time.
AS: I think dropping them live was what probably upset them, Joe.
JS: Oh my God, the rear gunner said, ‘Christ Almighty, what’s going on Joe?’ He said. There was a terrible bang and then another one and of course they were all going off. Actually, I, we were lucky we didn’t blow ourselves out of the sky really.
AS: Yeah.
JS: Crazy thing to do.
AS: There’s a minimum height for.
JS: Um.
AS: You also dropped lots of bombs safe didn’t you after the war? Tell me about that.
JS: We used to load the aircraft with bombs. Fly outside of Hull and drop them in the sea. Just unload the whole bloody lot downward, go back and get another load. There were so many bombs in the bomb dump and we said ‘They won’t be used again. We want them out of the way’. So, on the floor outside of Hull are literally hundreds of bombs that were dropped there during the war. The next job after that was the aircraft. We had to fly them up to Newcastle. We took anything that was necessary off, flew them up there and they burnt them and broke them up. This was after the war.
AS: Soon after the war?
JS: Yes, not many weeks after the war, ‘cause by that time I’d then gone onto Dakotas you see? And Ken and I had to learn to fly Dakotas, I enjoyed that, they were good fun.
AS: Did you surprise Ken with how well you could fly? Did he know about your previous experience?
JS: Oh yeah, he knew initially that I could fly, because rare occasions, very rare occasions, he’d let me fly the Halifax. Only when he wanted to have a slash or have a break, then I would take over you see?
AS: On ops?
JS: Um.
AS: Gosh.
JS: When I look back on it now I was glad I wasn’t a pilot. I wouldn’t have wanted to be a pilot anymore. Different if you were a Spitfire pilot or a Hurricane pilot, which is what I originally went in to do. That’s alright but not sitting at the [inaudible] of the bloody thing.
AS: Bus driving.
JS: Bus driving yeah.
AS: Well they call them don’t they? Driver air frame mark one?[chuckling].
JS: Yeah.
AS: So, you stayed on 77, and the idea was they’d re-role 77 to be a transport squadron?
JS: Um.
AS: And you became a second pilot sharing the flying with Ken?
JS: With Ken.
AS: So, you didn’t stay in the UK, what happened?
JS: Went straight out to the Far East.
AS: Did you take any sort of test as a pilot? Qualification as a pilot?
JS: We both had a test before we left. I spent a bit of time, we both were capable of flying and it was known, but he was the pilot obviously and I was the second pilot. But the aircraft, some of them were quite good, some of them were rubbish. They had them too long and they should have been scrapped but we used them occasionally. Um.
AS: In training or?
JS: Um.
AS: And then you went with Dakotas overseas?
JS: Um.
AS: What was that all about, ‘cause the war in the Far East was still going on was it?
JS: Yes, we went out for the invasion of Japan. We were going to act as the taxis for the people who were going to invade Japan, but they dropped the bombs on Japan completely, well it was fantastic bombs they dropped on Japan. And the war finished immediately. So after that we did every job that could be, was necessary for an aircraft to do. We brought the prisoners of war back home, we did all sorts of interesting things.
AS: You set off the 27th of September to Sardinia? That’s one leg, Libya, Karachi this took you?
JS: Took about ten days.
AS: Amazing. Delhi via the Taj Mahal.
JS: Um.
AS: Carried VIP’s. What was that all about?
JS: We took some. You see we had all sorts of jobs. Oftentimes somebody’s generals and admirals that had to go and we took them. We had a special aircraft which had seats, ‘cause a lot of the aircraft hadn’t got seats, had to sit on the floor. But we had lots of aircraft fitted for important people, and we took them to various places. I did a tour once, oh that was it, I did a tour once with them, with a concert party, and we had the concert party with all the extras in the Dak. And we used to fly every night we’d fly to a different place, and then they’d do their trip. Well then they finished, towards the end they said to us ‘What do you think of the show, Joe?’ I said, and I felt embarrassed, I said ‘Actually’, ‘Oh, go on’. ‘We’ve never seen the show’. ‘Good God man’ they said. I said ‘Well, there’s always’. ‘We’ll give you a performance tonight’. So some of them did. There were two brothers, they dressed up as young females. They were so good.
AS: You’ve been out East too long. [laughter]
JS: And I finished up with the tour at Bombay and we realised that we had a couple of days over, so I said to Ken ‘Can’t we get hold of some money and stop here for a couple of days?’ So he said he would see what he could do, and he got some cash out of somewhere. And we stopped on for a couple of days extra. And I liked Bombay, I learned to swim underwater in Bombay, ‘cause they had a beautiful pool there.
AS: And that’s where in November 1945, at Palam, you set off on your last flight with 77 Squadron?
JS: That’s right yeah.
AS: Tell me about finishing flying, was that planned or?
JS: No. I didn’t think he was going home that quickly, ‘cause he wanted to get home anyway. And his number came up long before mine, and I could have carried on with somebody else, but I suddenly thought ‘I’ve been flying for four years, I’m the luckiest bloke I know, perhaps I can even get an early journey home’. Well I went to see the CO and he said he realised that I had had a good innings but he couldn’t let me go yet, it wasn’t down. He said ‘There’s a nice little job coming up in the post office’. I said ‘oh’. He said ‘I think you’d like it you know, you’re in charge’. So I said ‘OK’ so I took it on until such time as it was due to come home. When I look back on it now, India was going through terrible internal problems. I was bloody glad to get out of India. They were killing each other wholesale. One against the other. Just before the break up, because that’s, if you look at the time, dates, that’s when they finally broke up, India and Pakistan.
AS: I think also there was some trouble in the Air Force wasn’t there? What they called the 1946 RAF Mutiny?
JS: Oh yeah.
AS: What was that about?
JS: That arrived it was the first time I went out there. It wasn’t ’46, it was ’45 I think, could have been ’46. What had happened was, all the guys, the ground staff guys, had been out in the Far East, some of them for four years, never been home. And here was the war over in England and all their mates were leaving and getting good jobs and there’s them stuck out there in India. And it got worse and worse until eventually there was a desertion and then a –
AS: A mutiny?
JS: Yeah, it really went mad. I thought there might even be a bit of violence but there wasn’t. But some of the chaps who were actually in charge, and they were officers, they were in trouble, they were jailed. But, and I can see their point, lots of them had been out there for four years. All their mates had gone home in England and finished the war and were getting jobs, nothing for them.
AS: So, what happened to Joe Stemp then? You’re running a post office?
JS: Yeah.
AS: You told me earlier you taught yourself to drive on a big truck.
JS: Yeah.
AS: How did you end up from India?
JS: My time came up to leave.
AS: OK.
JS: And I went up, I flew home. [inaudible] what I’m going to do and my father said to me ‘I’ve saved you a position in the works’. He said ‘You can start next Monday’. I said ‘Hang on, I’ve been away. I wasn’t going to start work straight away, I thought I’d have a break’. ‘Why?’ I said, ‘Because I’ve been away and I want a break’. ‘I don’t know about that’ he says, ‘I’ve kept a job for you here’. So I said ‘OK’. So I started and I hated it. And after a few weeks a mate of mine got in touch with me and we went and had a drink together. And he worked on the paper that the, Times no?
AS: Financial Times?
JS: Financial Times.
AS: The pink one.
JS: And he said ‘How would you like a job on the Financial Times?’ ‘Oh, not half’. I said. ‘I’ll see what I can do’. And the next thing I know is I’m offered a job by them. I went up, saw them, they liked me, I liked them and I went to work for them, and it was up and up from then onwards. I went out on the road eventually, had a good job as a rep and eventually went out on the road and did very well. Maxwell.
AS: Yeah.
JS: My first client, I’ve told you haven’t I? Three months I gave him his work. Did lots of [inaudible] for him, never got a penny. When I went to get money from him he was rude to me and told me to get stuffed and all sort of things. So I said ‘That’s it, we’re finished with you’. And we did but I carried on and I had some very good clients in the end and they liked me and also the women liked me, so I had lots of women clients. And they all liked Joe and I was getting more money. Before I knew where I was I was doing very well and over the years I’ve done very well.
AS: How did you meet and marry Pat?
JS: On a train. I was flying, it was just before I went to the Far East when I was still flying Dakotas, and I went, I took a couple of days off. And a mate said to me ‘Let’s go down the coast for a couple of days and have a break’. So I said ‘What a good idea’. And my Dad didn’t want me to because he knew that I’d go boozing. I said ‘So?’ Anyway, I went. We get to the station, we get to the train, there isn’t room to spare. We walked right the length of the train [inaudible] and in the last carriage, eight women were in there, but nobody moved. So, we stood outside all the way to Plymouth and at Plymouth two got out, and we went in and used their seats. And I took one look at this woman opposite me and I fell in love with her, now I did. I know I’m a romantic but there and then. So, the next day I looked and saw she had a wedding ring and an engagement ring. I thought ‘Bloody marvellous, every time I fancy some girl someone else has got there first’. So the next day we were talking casually and she said she was a widow. Oh, lost her husband shot down over Poland flying the aircraft [inaudible]. So on the third day I asked her to marry me. She thought I was crazy. ‘Good God man’. She said. ‘I don’t even know your name, never mind marry you’. I said ‘Would you marry me?’ She thought about and she said ‘Put it this way, I’ll think about it’. I said ’Look, I’m going away any moment now, like tomorrow or the day after, to the Far East. I don’t know how long I’m going to be going but I’ll be gone probably about a year. And I’d like to know’. She said ‘I’m not going to say anything. I’ll think about it’. So she wrote to me during the first year and when I came home I asked her again, and we got married. So, I did well didn’t I? [laughs]
AS: Absolutely.
JS: She said something to me about two years ago. She’d wet herself in the home down the road there, and I went to change her knickers for her and I changed her knickers in the toilet and I whispered in her ear ‘What a good job I love you to death’. Do you know what she said to me? ‘Joe, I’ve loved you from the moment I first saw you’. Christ I was nearly in tears.
AS: On the train?
JS: Um. So I said ‘You’re a funny girl’. I knew see, and of course we got on very well over the years but she used to write me nice letters. Even when the Queen sends us a card. There’s a certain period of the year when the Queen sends us a card. Because we’ve got some connection with them. And she usually writes in the Queen’s letter or card a nice letter to me. Always a nice letter saying how much she loves being married to me and what a marvellous life she’s had. And that was how it went.
AS: And did you ever talk about the war and the flying between you?
JS: No.
AS: Because she’d lost her husband?
JS: We never did. Only time she said something was when I did say at one time, ‘I should have stayed in you know Pat?’ ‘What do you mean you should have stayed in?’ I said ‘All my mates who stayed in did a great job, doing, working for Europe, buying stuff in Europe and coming over after the war you know? They were making a fortune on the side.
AS: It’s called smuggling Joe. [laughter]
JS: It is just that. So I said, she said ‘Joe, I’ve told you I lost one husband and I’m not going to take another one, it’s up to you’. I said [inaudible] So we were married. Sixty-five years we were married.
AS: Good lord.
JS: Never had a cross word with her hardly in all that time. My girls could never understand it. ‘You and Mum’ they said ‘You get on so well’. I said ‘Well, that’s what life’s supposed to be like, getting on well.’ Well now you know a lot about that book.
AS: I’d like to photograph the book in a minute Joe. Just one final set of thoughts really, perhaps? That we talked about your father’s attitude to the bombing.
JS: Oh yeah.
AS: The public’s attitude through the fifties and sixties and the seventies, I think was, in many ways, was much against the bombing although you didn’t talk about it.
JS: No.
AS: Did you feel it was unfair? Did you shout internally about it or?
JS: They felt that we were taking advantage of the fact that the Germans were in trouble with Russia and when they were in their worst state we were taking advantage and bombing them badly. Which we did. I never discussed that, it never gave me a thought. When you fly you’re told what you told, you go where you’re told to go, and do what you’ve got to do. And that’s all I can say. I couldn’t say to them ‘Oh I’m not going to bomb there, I’m not going to go there’. You do what you’re told. I didn’t even want to belong to Bomber Command but once you’re are, you’re there aren’t you?
AS: And you had no choice about where you went?
JS: No.
AS: When you were flying, this has just occurred to me, did you have a lot of, I mean the enemies were the flak, the fighters and the weather. Did you have a lot of trouble with the weather?
JS: No. If the weather was bad we didn’t go. [inaudible] Our raid were also worked on how the weather was going to be on the way and on the way back,. ‘cause we had to get back from Germany, it wasn’t like round the corner it was a six hour trip sometimes. And basically we did well. Occasionally we did come unstuck. In which case we had to find somewhere to land as soon as we hit this coast. Which we did, we went to a smaller ‘drome in south of England.
AS: OK.
JS: Went in there on two or three occasions. I’ve been down there and found the place full of Halifax’s, and bombers and all sorts that had run out of fuel.
AS: So, is it fair to say that the weather reports you were given, or forecasts were pretty good most of the time?
JS: They were very good.
AS: OK.
JS: I think I mentioned this. Just before I joined the squadron, I met some mates of mine who were in a similar squadron but they were flying Whitley’s and Wellingtons, and they hated the flying so what they did was, and this is an absolute truth, there used to be a song. ‘Bomb holes in the roof tops, instead of craters in the sea’. What had happened was, they’d be having a drink and the skipper would come in. ‘Don’t have any more drink lads, we’re on tonight’. ‘Oh, sod it, have we got to go?’ ‘Yes’. ‘Oh, alright.’ They’d take off, get half way across the coast then they’d say to each other ‘Let’s have a go’. So they’d all have a go at the skipper. ‘Have we got to go? This is bloody silly, really isn’t it? Why can’t we dump our bombs here and go back home? The navigator can cook the log’. Which he could, so they did. And it went on and on. At that period there were more bombs dropped in the bloody sea than ever dropped over there. And then they found out what they were doing, ‘cause the next morning they’d go down and they’d say ‘That’s funny, they reckon they dropped all the bombs, where did they drop them? We can’t find any bomb holes anywhere’. Spitfire would go over. They decided they must do something about it so they fitted a new attachment like that, to a camera, to the bomb tit. So when you pressed the bomb tit it showed you where the bombs were going. So you couldn’t get away with it anymore. [laughs]
AS: So, this was automatic, so many seconds after the bombs went?
JS: Um. But there was an awful lot of it. And when you think of the aircraft, they were pathetic aircraft, you know? You didn’t stand a chance really with them. At least with our aircraft we had good aircraft. I mean the Lancaster and Halifax were both fantastic bombers. And well looked after, well good.
AS: Can you remember still, and I don’t expect this, but can you remember the drills you had to do as the bomb aimer as you’re approaching the target?
JS: Any?
AS: The drills. Did you have to set the wind up or? Too long ago?
JS: No, as I recall, I did most of it, I didn’t do them all. But we had to get, as I recall. We used to lay on our stomach and we got our bomb sight lined up with where we had to drop the bombs. And generally speaking I was either very lucky, not always so clever, but very lucky. Consequently, I had some very, very good results and we got a big reputation. I told you, on the bombs on that railway, I blew the station from one end to the other. Right down the line, blew everything out of the way. And so I got congratulated on it. And on a number of occasions I was, I personally was congratulated, which was such a shame when I hit the Scarborough bit. [laughter]
AS: OK. I think we’ve had a really good go at this Joe, I’m –
JS: Haven’t we, I’m sorry.
AS: No, I’m so grateful for you. And perhaps we could resume another day?
JS: Yes.
AS: When maybe some more memories will come back.
JS: Next time I’ll take you out to have something to eat. It’s been nice, I’m not giving you bullshit now. It’s been nice to meet you, you’re exactly as I thought you would be and I’ve enjoyed your company. And if you ever want to come again, not necessarily to chat even, you’re always welcome here with me.
AS: That’s very kind and I will.
JS: Sorry.
AS: This is the second reel of interview with Joe Stemp. Joe, I think we paused at the point when we were talking about your disappointment at –
JS: At losing. Yes. Scrubbing my pilot’s skills.
AS: Did they. What happened next? Did they give you the choice of being a navigator or?
JS: Not really, I don’t know. All I know is that for some months I did odds and ends around and the next thing I know is I’m at Blackpool, going out to South Africa to do this navigation course.
AS: What sort of odds and ends did they have you doing?
JS: Oh, I did all sorts of things for them, I was most surprised they let me do it really. I quite enjoyed it, it was quite enjoyable. I was up at Blackpool for some time and, you know, I quite enjoyed the Air Force. I had intended to go for a pilot’s course, another one, and try again but I realised that they’d got all the records and I would never have got away with it.
AS: So, you’d come out then and enlist under a different name or something?
JS: Yeah.
AS: OK. So, after they’d had you doing odds and ends, you’re in Liverpool, presumably going to South Africa by ship?
JS: Yes, we did.
AS: What was that like?
JS: Marvellous. I found a lot of good friends out there. East London was where I trained and the people of East London were very good to us. Families would adopt us so at the weekend we always had somewhere to go. And I was adopted by a family and they liked me and we had good times together, the Carter family. I had a very good time in South Africa, I thoroughly enjoyed it. The only thing that ever got me was she had a lot of other children, they weren’t hers. She had seven people working for her. She had people working for her, a family of seven and they lived in a rough old shack down the bottom of her garden. Well if I treated her children to sweets I treated their children. And she found out and I got a real bollocking. I mustn’t, she said ‘You don’t seem to realise, Joe, there’s more of them then us’. I said ‘It’s got nothing to do with it’. But, and I’ve always had this thing about it, the way they treated them.
AS: Was there any, did you encounter any anti-British feeling in South Africa?
JS: No, not really no. Not really. ‘Cause funny enough the Air Force weren’t very popular in South Africa, they weren’t very popular at all. I don’t know why, amongst the South African’s this is, I wasn’t unhappy to leave on that score. The course was very good, very interesting and we flew nearly every day. The weather was so good you could, you see We flew nearly every day.
AS: So, you were there doing a specific navigators course or an observers course?
JS: An observers course really. I was doing navigators and bomb aiming too. I did bombing as well. In fact, it was a brilliant – by the time I joined my crew on the Halifax I was the most experienced member of the crew really, although I was the youngest. It’s amazing isn’t it?
AS: So, you’d had training on navigation and bomb aiming? What else did you manage to pick up?
JS: Pilot training as well, you see, when I started, you see.
AS: Of course.
JS: I always remember when the war was over, I came home, and my skipper arranged to meet me in Ealing and we’d have a drink together. And we got terribly drunk and then got into trouble because we really let go. And I swore, I said ‘I’m not going to argue with you anymore. We’ll leave it to another time and finish this conversation’. And I walked out and left him. And I never did see him again, and I never did see him again because a couple of years later, out of the blue I found out he died early, so I never did get to see him.
AS: Can you discuss what the argument was about?
JS: Well first of all, I said the crew came to me at one period during our tour and said ‘You’re the best person to talk to him. Can you tell him that we are not here for the ride? We are part of this crew and we all have our jobs to do. Every time we say anything he completely ignores us’. So I said ‘In what –‘ So one of the gunners said ‘I told him, dive starboard’. I said. ‘How we got missed, I never know’. And all this sort of thing, he said ‘He never, ever listens to what we’re saying’. So I said ‘OK, I’ll have a word with him’. Because only the pilot and the navigator went into the main briefing. When the main briefing was over then the whole crew came in, and they all came in and after the briefing he went outside and he said ‘I believe you’re all upset with me?’ ‘Oh no’. And I stood there and I thought here I am, eighteen years old, I’ve learnt a lesson for life. Don’t talk up for other people, let them do it themselves. And I never. [laughs] And they all virtually. [inaudible] He said ‘Ha’. And I said ‘I don’t give a [inaudible], you either don’t want to know or you do, and I don’t care now’. We carried on, and in fairness he was a good pilot. And we had incidents as one does when one’s flying but basically I was very happy and we did a good job. I don’t think, I never wanted to go into bombers anyway. But as I say he was a funny guy. We went from there, as I told you, onto Dakotas, and the two of us were flying, learning to fly Dakotas at the same time. And then we flew out to the Far East with the object of the invasion of Japan, but they dropped the bomb and fortunately for us we didn’t have to invade Japan. So we ended up by doing anything out there that they needed. For example, we picked up most of the prisoners of war, our prisoners of war, and brought them back to India. Anywhere to get, you know? And we did all sorts of jobs with the Dakota. I always remember getting a whole group of these ex-prisoners. They were like, oh God it was awful, six stone some of them aAnd they didn’t want to get on the aircraft. They said ‘No, we’re going to get killed’. I said ‘We’ll be flying the bloody thing’. Anyway they got on, no seats, we just sat them on the floor. ‘Anyway, it’s only a couple of hours or so and then you’ll be out of here and on your way home’. But we did some very good jobs out there, I enjoyed it, but when he finally went home I didn’t want to fly with anybody else so they put me in charge of the post office in Karachi of all things.
AS: But it sounds like a fascinating marriage almost.
JS: Um.
AS: One hears of crewing up and how the crew is terribly tight knit.
JS: Um.
AS: Doesn’t seem really –
JS: It’s not true.
AS: To have been the case for you.
JS It’s not true. I know so many crews that were good and they were crews. They mixed together, they went out together, they worked together, they were part of a team. But my crew lasted, there were three of us, were good friends. The flight engineer and one of the gunners and I. The three of us were great friends. The flight engineer was a regular airman and he was coming, and he didn’t ever want to be in aircrew, and he was coming out with a load of stuff on his bike one day and just for a joke the guy on the desk said ‘What have you got there?’ And he’d got half a joint. He said ‘Where are you going with that?’ He was taking it to the Officers’ Mess. He’d nicked it from somewhere. It got into a big battle between him and the CO and they virtually said ‘We’ll give you an option. You can join aircrew and we’ll drop the charges or else’. And he didn’t want, he was scared. I’d been with him when poor old Tom. And I’d seen him gripping hold of the thing and I said ‘Don’t worry, we’ll be alright’. But he never did like flying. He was a good, he was a good flight engineer, but he hated flying, he was petrified.
AS: But still did his job?
JS: He did his job. When we finished the tour for some unknown reason, we all disappeared. Even he did you know? But he turned up again to say to me that he was going on Dakotas and he wanted me to come with him. So I did. As a pilot he was good, he knew what he was doing. As a man I wasn’t happy with him at all.
AS: Was he an officer? Was he an officer?
JS: He was a flight lieutenant.
AS: Do you think this was part of the issue with the crew?
JE: No, no. He was, he always fancied his chances. I had a feeling that he thought he was a bit cleverer and brighter than the others but actually, when it came down to it, he lived just round the corner from where I lived at home. Alright, I lived in a council estate and he didn’t, but he was nothing special and he had a very nice wife who he, I thought, treated abominably. Because there had been times when I was with him when we’d have awful rows. Because we’d be out, well I didn’t mind the other boys shagging around all over the place, but I did object to him doing it. And we’ve had so many rows over this over the years. When he, I, so for years went by and I was down in Guildford and I was sitting there and I got hold of the directory. And I looked there and there was his name in the directory. And I said ‘Good God, I’ll ring him up’. So I rang him up and a voice said, a very posh voice said ‘Hello, who’s that?’ I said, ‘It’s Joe Stemp’. ‘My God man, that’s’s going back a bit, my God’ she said ‘Fancy that’. And she kept going on and on but she didn’t mention him. I thought ‘She kicked him out, she must have done’. But she didn’t, he died a couple of years after, after I’d separated from him. With a heart attack.
AS: Lot of strain, lot of stress in operational life.
JS: It was yes, yeah.
AS: You raise an interesting issue actually about sex in wartime.
JS: Um.
AS: I think, yeah, my generation thought they invented sex. Every generation thinks they invented sex. [laughter] It’s not something one hears a great deal about.
JS: You know why don’t you? They didn’t like aircrew. The girls would not, did not, like going out with aircrew ‘cause they said you could never guarantee he was going to be there on Friday, which happens. They’d fall for one and then the chap just wouldn’t appear again. We lost so many men that women were very careful about who they went with, especially flying men. So I’m told. I never had a girlfriend, I didn’t really worry. I found a girlfriend at the right time when it was all over.
AS: But amongst your crew mates there was a lot of?
JS: Oh God, they used to take me with them. It was, I was embarrassed. And they used to, they started off first of all thinking I was queer because I didn’t want to know, then to stir things up they always got somebody for me. Some awful woman that they’d dump, and I’d get left with this. Oh God, yes they were always after me. The thing was I wasn’t very old either when you think about it was I? Only about eighteen.
AS: I won’t ask you who you were more terrified of, the flak or the ladies?
JS: [laughter] We had lots of incidents when I was flying but I’ll tell you a story. I didn’t do many daylight trips, mostly night trips, long night trips. I was on this day trip and the rear gunner said to me, called over, and we didn’t have a lot of chat when we were flying. And he called over the tannoy, ‘Joe, look ahead of you. See that Lanc, that Halifax on the right, that’s old Charlie Whatisname’. So I looked and I thought ‘Dunno’. I thought ‘Perhaps he’s right, yeah’. I said, ‘I think it’, and before I could say another word he disappeared into little bits. A Lancaster above dropped his bloody bombs on the. Honestly, and it blew him out of the sky. And I turned round to the crew and I said ‘I’d never really got worried about flying, but this has done me in, I can’t believe what I’ve just seen.. Terrible.
AS: And not unique?
JS: No,it wasn’t, it happened a lot. Crashing into each other, bombs on each other. I mean, in some of these big raids where we had hundreds of bombers there was terrible mess ups all the way through you know?
AS: What sort of things?
JS: I’m a strange guy. People used to say ‘You’re an amazing guy. You don’t seem to realise it’s a dangerous job you’re doing’. I said ‘Well it’s quite exciting really’. And that’s the way I saw it you see? It wasn’t until I watched him go and I suddenly thought ‘Christ, it’s dangerous up here’. But I was never nervous and I was never scared, honestly, because we had a job to do. I was quite happy. But he was, we’ve had, I had lots of problems with him, the skipper. When we flew together out in India different story entirely. I did a lot of flying with him.
AS: As a second pilot were you responsible for the navigational duties as well or did you carry a navigator?
JS: We had a navigator.
AS: So, you were sharing take offs, landings and the flying?
JS: In fact, the guy who was our navigator at that time with the Dakotas, I have to tell you this story. We were flying out to the Far East, we’d done two legs when suddenly the aircraft got into trouble. So we put it in at Tel Aviv in Israel and they said they’d examine the aircraft. While we were there two days we met a couple of girls. Just chatted normally, we took them out and had drinks and enjoyed their company and that was it. Thoroughly enjoyed it, ‘Bye, bye, see you some time’. Years later, I went to see this navigator, and I had a feeling that it wasn’t right ‘cause when I rang him his wife used to give him the information what to say, and I had a feeling he didn’t know. I think he had Alzheimer’s, I think he didn’t know what he was saying. So anyway, I went down to see him and we had quite an interesting visit. And I did a silly thing, I said to him ‘Do you remember the crash in the Wellington?’ And he looked at me all surprised, and his wife was standing behind him going. So, I thought ‘OK, stop it, that’s it’. He obviously had forgotten, one doesn’t forget crashes. So, I said ‘That’s it’. So when I left I get into my car, he had a posh house in Torbay, he came rushing down the thing and banged on the window. ‘Here, Joe’ he said, ‘Do you remember those two girls we met in Tel Aviv?’ and I said, ‘For Christ’s sake’. We had a terrible crash and I don’t know how we ever got away with it and he says, he’d forgotten that and he was talking about two girls that we met just casually. Isn’t that amazing?
AS: The memory is a funny thing. What was the crash as a matter of interest?
JS: I tell you what it was. And it was, my skipper wasn’t at the helm. We’d done a navigation course at which I was working and we ended up somewhere outside, that island, between England and Ireland.
AS: Isle of Man?
JS: Isle of Man. We parked in there and we were taking off to go back home, and we’d only been in the air about ten minutes when the operator came up and said ‘I’ve got a message, Joe, to be passed through’. The message was ‘Return to the Isle of Man because the weather in the North, in Scotland, is so bad they won’t take us in’. So I gave this to my pilot who gave it to the other man who was flying, the flight lieutenant we don’t know him. ‘Sod that’ he said. ‘I told my wife we’re going home tonight and I’m going home tonight’. Well we had no answer to this, he was in charge, he was the skipper, so off we went. When we get there it is foul. Lossiemouth, Kinloss, none of them would take us in. So we went to a little place called Elgin and he decided he’d go in there. Instead of going into wind he went downwind, took the bloody barbed wire fence with him. I watched it pull all the skin off the aircraft as I sat there, and eventually it ended on, there’s a, they used to raise dumps and put the grass round, you know, and it was a bomb dump. And as soon as we managed eventually to stop, there was nobody rushing to our aid, they’d all buggered off, running away ‘cause they thought. [laughter] I’ll never forget it. So I caught them up and we finished there and he wasn’t a mid-upper gunner because we hadn’t got a mid-upper turret. But we were keeping him for when we went onto heavies. And he went up to this officer and he walloped him. And of course everybody grabbed him. And I thought, said to my gunner ‘Joe it’s [inaudible]’’. Anyway, they didn’t. I think he lost his commission. I think he was charged ‘cause he was definitely told he mustn’t return. How the hell we got away with it I’ll never know.
AS: So, this is when you were back in England?
JS: Yeah.
AS: Crewed up?
JS: I’d crewed up but we were crewed up on Wellingtons you see?
AS: OK, whereabouts was that?
JS: I can’t think now.
AS: Doesn’t matter. This was what OTU?
JS: Like an OTU yes. This is where I first met my pilot and the other crew got together. We were crewed up as a crew. We had a strange crew. Lots of crews I’ve met over the years have been ideal. But there were some strange crews.
AS: Strange in what sense? How did you, how did you meet and fall in love as it were? How did you crew up the?
JS: They put us all together in this big hangar with drinks to follow, and you had the chance, people would come up and say, if they fancied you ‘Are you crewed up?’ ‘No’. ‘You’re not looking for an engineer?’ ‘Yeah, yeah’. It was all, you know, we ended up with, they were quite a mixed crowd really. Some of the crews were great, they got on so well together. They were a real team. But we couldn’t say that with Henley, ‘cause Ken Henley was an arrogant bastard really. I –
AS: Who was, can you remember, who was in charge of the crewing up? Did he take the lead? Did you take the lead?
JS: No, I did meet, I met two chaps who were talking together and I said to them, I liked the look of them you know? And I said to them ‘Are you crewed up?’ ‘No, not yet’.[inaudible]. He and I had just met, his gunner and his engineer had just met, and I said, ‘You haven’t got a crew?’ ‘No’. I said ‘Oh, could I join you?’ They said ‘Yeah, sure. Who are you flying with?’ And I said ‘Well I’ve got a skipper but I don’t know whether you’d like him or not?’ But they said ‘Oh sod him, we’ll have you’. And that’s how we got together. There were funny things happen with crews during the war. Very funny things used to happen.
AS: What sort of things?
JS: Well, my skipper for example was, he was a terrible womaniser in every possible way. And also he, what he said the crew agreed. In other words the crew used to say ‘He thinks he’s the only one on board. I don’t know why we all go with him ‘cause he doesn’t bother, you’d think he was the only one. He forgets there should be seven of us’. He did, and he did do this and I used to say to him ‘You must be more careful, Ken, with their feelings’. ‘I mean’ I said ‘When the other night’. One of the operators did something and he virtually turned him down. ‘He was absolutely right and you know it was’, I said, ‘Through him and through you ignoring him, we were five minutes late’ I said ‘We ended up that we would have reached the target five minutes after the other buggers had left’. I said ‘It wouldn’t have been a lot of fun’. And it got worse and worse and the nearer we got to the target, they kept coming up to me and saying ‘Joe, for Christ’s sake, tell him’. So I did. I mentioned ‘This is stupid. There’s no point on going on like this, we’re going to get shot to pieces in a minute, ‘cause we’re going to be the only ones up here’. And he at last agrees so we dropped all the bombs and we came home on our own. But it would have been awful.
AS: Going back to your accident up in Elgin. Were you ever aware of an organisation called the Training Flying Control Centre on the Isle of Man? That -
JS: No.
AS: That sent all these signals?
JS: No.
AS: My mother worked for them.
JS: Really? Good Lord.
AS: Yep. ‘Cause you and lots and lots of aircrews were training over the Irish Sea and they used to fly into mountains and fly into the sea. So they started this Training Flight Control Centre and they would be the people probably who sent you the recall message.
JS: Yeah.
AS: So, you were crewing up and learning the art of operational flying on Wellingtons? What were they like as kites? Were they new or old and clapped out? What were they like?
JS: Wellingtons?
AS: Yeah.
JE: Loved it. Loved ‘em. Oh, I was very keen on the Wellington. I liked the Wimpey, we all did. In fact, I was sorry when we started first of all on the Halifax. My, I must tell you this chap, one of my crew, the engineer he hated flying, he was absolutely scared stiff. But he had to, I think I told you because of an incident. But there were so many things. He was a professional airman too. He’d been in the Air Force before the war, the last thing he wanted to do was fly. But he was threatened so he had to start flying. And I used to try to comfort him because he I found he used to get so, so upset. I can see him standing there, holding onto things. He hated it, he hated ops. But he didn’t like upsetting us so he came with us. It wasn’t an easy job you know at times. We went out in some awful weather and did some awful trips, long trips. We were coming back from that big one, where we should never have dropped the bombs, we did because of the Russians.
AS: Dresden?
JS: Yes. And I said to my crew, ‘Now look’ I said. ‘Don’t for Christ’s sake put this in your logbook, ‘cause the time will come when you’ll be most embarrassed to know, or anybody else know, that you actually bombed here, like we’ve done’. ‘Well’ they said ‘All we’ve done is drop’. We didn’t drop explosive bombs. So, I said, I said ‘The best thing to do is forget all about it’. Because, I mean, fifty yards from the target, I looked back and the Americans had come in and they decided to bomb, and there was a lot of bombing going on. It was awful.
AS: So even, even as, you were carrying incendiaries? Even as you were over the target what made you think not to put it in your logbook? Just the?
JS: The fact that we realised we shouldn’t have been there anyway. I didn’t feel we should have bombed there. They said, they said ‘It’s the Russians, we’re doing it to please Russia’. Perhaps we are, but nobody seemed happy about it. None of the crews that I flew with that day said to me anything. They all had a bit of an indiscretion, they all felt a bit bad about that one.
AS: This was after the briefing?
JS: Um.
AS: What did they say then, just that it was to help the Russians, at the briefing?
JS: Well they said it would help the trouble on that front, you know? The following day the Americans went in but they didn’t have incendiaries, they had high explosives, they blew the place apart.
AS: Before we got to your operational missions, you were, how long did it take on the Wellingtons, on the OTU? What sort –
JS: A long time.
AS: What sort of things were you doing?
JS: A lot of training on the Wellington. I loved that on the Wellingtons. Apart from the crash we had a great time. I thought it was a lovely aircraft, always did. This guy who was flying it he was, he’d had a flat near the ‘drome, and he promised his missus he was going home, regardless of us. Regardless of [inaudible] that the weather was bad or that they weren’t going to take us into Kinloss or Lossiemouth. And he still carried on. Well, he was in charge, we weren’t. So, you just do what you’re told don’t you?
AS: So he was a staff pilot from the OTU?
JS: Oh yeah, yeah. I think he lost his rank, I think he lost his job. I don’t remember afterwards anything happening. All I know is that we were. We didn’t realise why people were running away from us, not coming to our aid. Because we were on the bloody bomb dump that’s why.
AS: So, I imagine that it wasn’t quite the same then nowadays. Did you get leave and counselling or anything like that?
JS: Well, when we were flying on ops we had leave about every month. We had a week off and not only did we have a week off but Lord, was it Nuffield?
AS: Nuffield yeah.
JS: Used to give us extra money. Did you know that?
AS: Yes.
JS: For aircrew, most unusual. And I used to always have a white fiver to give to my Mum. And when I used to go home I used to give my Mum the white fiver, she used to rush up the stairs and hide it. And years later, couple of years, she gave it all back to me to put in the Crusader Rescue. I said ‘I’m not going to do it. It isn’t for the Crusader Rescue, it’s for you’. But no we had a, we did quite well, we had leave quite regularly.
AS: After your accident did they give you leave? Or just put you in another aeroplane?
JS: No. After our accident we were flying a different ‘plane the next day to make sure we were all alright, ‘cause they thought perhaps you know we’d not want to fly again.
AS: At this time when you’re flying over England, over Europe, I’m told it was very different from flying in South Africa. How did you find it, did you pick up the navigation in Europe very quickly?
JS: Yes. Lots of room. Lovely weather, lots of room. The pilots actually that were training with us were South African Air Force pilots. And one in particular he’d got a couple of girlfriends. And he used to bugger me up because I’d be on a navigation trip and he’d say ‘I won’t be long, Joe, I’m just going to pull off for a bit’. And off he’d go off to up where his girlfriend lived. Then we, then I wouldn’t bloody know where we were, and I’ve got to find out. No, it was a bit of a headache with him. He was a nice enough guy but he was mad.
AS: During your training, it was all. What sort of navigation did you learn?
JS: I don’t know, it’s hard to say now.
AS: Astro and?
JS: Yes, yeah we did the lot you know.
AS: Astro Course
JS: It was a very good course. Navigator. And of course in the end we had H2S and these things on the aircraft too.
AS: In South Africa?
JS: Oh no. When we came home.
AS: Yes.
JS: Um.
AS: So, you’d done your training. Did you come back by ship?
JS: Yes, I did.
AS: What was that like on the ship?
JS: Hated it. I was taken ill actually and I spent most of the way home in the sick bay. And I was put in a hospital when we first arrived home. I forget what was the matter with me but I know I wasn’t right. I always remember we came home on one of those famous liners we used before the war, you know?
AS: Queen Elizabeth or Queen Mary?
JS: Yeah, that sort of thing, yeah.
AS: Wow.
JS: Amazing.
AS: And can you, can you remember the trip? Were you in convoy or?
JS: Yes, that was the trouble. When we were going out we had huge convoys. It took ages, it took about three weeks to get to South Africa. And also, another time, I remember flying alongside in North Africa. There were tremendous problems out there. It was, you always made a convoy around you to keep you safe, you know? So many of these things I’ve forgot but it was quite an interesting time.
AS: Yeah. It’s a long time ago, forgetting is not surprising. But when we talk it’s surprising how much comes back I think. You came back, did you come back into Liverpool from South Africa?
JS: Yes.
AS: OK.
JS: And we stopped also, I always remember. We went to a very posh place and stopped there. All aircrew and we were crewed up, we crewed up there. I have met some really nice guys in aircrew during the war. I was unhappy about my bloke but the thing was you couldn’t afford to be. When you’re flying with someone you’ve got to get on and do what’s going. So we did the best we could. He was a good pilot, he was a bit nervous. On one occasion only did he panic. We had an explosion underneath us and he called out to me ‘Joe, Joe, they’ve shot my arse away’. So I said ‘What are you talking about?’ So I went up to him and he said ‘Look, blood, blood!’ And I said ‘For Christ’s sake’. So we got a torch out of the engine, they hadn’t shot his arse away, they had shot underneath, and in doing so they he had, it wasn’t blood it was oil! And he was panic stricken ‘cause he had a handful of oil and he thought it was blood. But he was alright generally but I wasn’t happy with him. I would never have anything to do with him in private life ever.
AS: But you were an extremely effective crew?
JS: Yes. We were a good crew. We were a good crew. The only thing that we did wrong was the end of my tour and I bombed Scarborough.
AS: I was born in Scarborough.
JS: Were you really?
AS: Yes. I take great exception to that Joe, tell me about it.
JS: We took off, aircraft was a deadbeat aircraft, full load of bombs. Got in the sky and he said to me ‘Christ, Joe, we’re in trouble’. And the next thing is, one of the engines packed up. I said ‘For God’s sake, Ken, let’s get out of here’. We had a load of bombs, let’s. I said ‘Make for Scarborough and we’ll get to the beach and we’ll drop the bombs in the sea there’. So he said ‘OK’. So we got to Scarborough and got lower and lower and lower, and then suddenly he said ‘Look we’ve got to get.’ So I pressed the tit. I pressed the tit that would send them down ‘live’ instead of ‘safe’, and they nearly blew us out of the sky. The poor old rear gunner was nearly. And there was a terrible incident there. ‘Joe Stemp bombs Scarborough’. Christ. So when we got back we explained what had happened and they, he didn’t exactly help me. So I had to go on a switch drill campaign, just to embarrass me really you know. I thought perhaps they’d stop us but we carried on just the same afterwards, but I always remember that. We didn’t do much damage, it wasn’t too bad. But they always joked about Joe Stemp the bloke that bombed Scarborough.
AS: So what were you, as a nav, doing with the bombs?
JS: I don’t know. I don’t know how it happened, it was panic stations that day.
AS: You just don’t like Yorkshiremen do you?
JS: [laughter] Lots of things I don’t remember. But we had, the crew weren’t too bad as a crew I suppose but I wasn’t terribly happy.
AS: Well, I’m, I’m interested actually about the ropey kite. Did you have your own aircraft as a crew mostly for the tour?
JS: Yes, well we had an aircraft. And it had done a hundred ops..
AS: What was her letter?
JS: I can’t think.
AS: Doesn’t matter.
JS: Anyway, the night of the hundred ops. The big arrangement there were lots of people turned up, we were going to have a big celebration, but something went wrong. Unbeknown to us, in the group coming back, was about thirty German fighters. And they didn’t make themselves known until they got over here. And when we got to Yorkshire they opened up and shot twenty of us down.
AS: Oh, this is Operation Gisela is it? Yes.
JS: Um.
AS: Were you attacked?
JS: Um. So my skipper said. I said ‘Well we better get down’. So he went to land and they tried to put him off landing, but he said ‘Sod it, we’re going in’. Well as we did and as we went there was an aircraft chasing us, shooting at us as we went down. We dived under the aircraft. Stupid our aircraft [inaudible] but of course the incidents, all the festivities forgotten. So the hundredth op just passed by. But it was a bad night, we lost a lot of aircraft. Lost a lot of aircraft that night and then the squadron broke up. And I had to join 77 ‘cos I think I’d done eighteen ops and I needed twelve more and so we joined 77 and finished the twelve with 77.
AS: As a complete crew?
JS: Yeah.
AS: Why did they break the squadron up, because of the losses?
JS: Yes, I think so. It was 578 the squadron was. It broke, they just closed it down.
AS: Good Lord. So, a very, very short existence?
JS: Um. I can’t imagine now why. I’ve often sat there when I’ve been on my own trying to think, ‘cause we had lots of fun on the station. Aircrew were always jolly chaps and we had singing and drinking and driving. And I had a motorbike and sidecar you see, I used to take them into York.
AS: The whole crew?
JS: Yeah. Well not him, not the skipper, but we’d get the rest on there. And the Police used to think, we used to think ‘They’re gonna nick us’. But I think the Police used to say ‘Poor buggers, might as well enjoy it, might not be here tomorrow’. So they let us get away with it. Oh, I drove yeah.
AS: Were there generally a lot of losses on 578? Not just that one night?
JS: No, there were a lot of losses. Um.
AS: Yeah. I know it’s a long time ago but can you remember how you felt at the time about that, about people?
JS: No, I can’t, honestly. I’ve thought about, ‘cause Emily is the journalist who was involved in their magazine and she went into it in a big way. But I can’t, I was too young and too excited to worry about what was happening. I was very excited about what we were doing. I never minded going on ops. I never worried. I said the only time I really got upset was when old Charlie Whatisname blew up out of the sky in front of me. And that really did upset me. I thought ‘For Christ’s sake. That’s in the middle of nowhere, here he is ‘Bang’. but no.
AS: Shall we pause and go and have a spot of lunch?
JS: Yes. I’d like that. I do go on a bit.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Joe Stemp
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adam Sutch
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-16
Type
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Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AStempJE151016, PStempJ1502
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
02:12:37 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Joe was a navigator with 578 Squadron and later with 77 Squadron, flying Halifaxes and later Dakotas. Joe has a sister and a brother. His brother ended his service with the Royal Air Force after an accident on a dinghy drill course left him deaf in one ear. Before joining up, Joe was working full time in a housing agency and he was just 17 when he signed up for the Royal Air Force, wanting to be a fighter pilot. Joe tells about his training in South Africa, and how he crewed up, as well as his uncomfortable relationship with his pilot. He also tells of how he did his planning – on the spot. Joe remembers seeing the lights in the sky at Ealing from the bombs falling during the battle of Britain. He also tells of his encounter with a man who gave away his sacred heart that his mother had given him, and how that man’s crew failed to return after. Joe talks about how he was always sure he was going to return after an operation. Joe also tells the story of seeing another Bomber Command aircraft blowing up in front of him and also of watching as Lancaster aircraft dropping its bombs onto other aircraft below. He also tells of the effect that lack of moral fibre had on the unit he was with. Joe was a bomb aimer with 77 Squadron, and was due to be presented with a Distinguished Flying Medal, however it was taken away from him after he dropped live bombs on Scarborough instead of safe ones into the sea. Joe talks about the heavy losses suffered by Bomber Command, his feelings on the bombings later on in the war including the bombing of Dresden. He was also involved in Operation Gisela, which led to 30 German fighters shooting down 20 Bomber Command Aircraft. Joe finished the war after completing 30 operations. He met Pat after meeting her on a train and they were married for 65 years. He asked her to marry him before he headed off to the Far East. Joe ran a post office in India and took a job with the Financial Times newspaper.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Yorkshire
England--Scarborough
South Africa
Germany
Germany--Dresden
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
578 Squadron
77 Squadron
aircrew
bomb aimer
bomb struck
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
C-47
coping mechanism
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Medal
entertainment
faith
fear
Halifax
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
love and romance
navigator
recruitment
rivalry
superstition
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1838/32950/EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0001.1.jpg
faef84ad4f807ada3556054126b6d339
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1838/32950/EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0002.1.jpg
3be8451ea233543c4aafa210c67d6bf9
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1838/32950/EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0003.1.jpg
ef6732be593fafec5b538661590c0a52
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Evans, Albert
A Evans
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Evans, A
Description
An account of the resource
39 items. The collection concerns Flying Officer Albert Evans (1922 - 1944, 157299 Royal Air Force) and contains documents, correspondence and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 44 Squadron and was killed 25 March 1944. <br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by S Smith and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br /><span data-contrast="none" xml:lang="EN-GB" lang="EN-GB" class="TextRun SCXW61255494 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW61255494 BCX0">Additional information on<span> Albert Evans </span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW61255494 BCX0">is available via the</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW61255494 BCX0" data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":200,"335559740":276}"> IBCC </span><a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/107170/">Losses Database.</a>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Telegram from Albert Evans to PLT Edwards
Description
An account of the resource
The telegram congratulates his sister, PLT Edwards on her first wedding anniversary.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Albert Evans
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-04-13
Format
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Three printed sheets with typed annotations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0001, EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0002, EEvansAEdwardsM420413-0003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Staffordshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-04-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
love and romance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/747/40648/BBarffAColingEFv1.1.pdf
ca6ec78a0413aa7061aef552e3fc1f62
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Coling, Eric
E Coling
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. The collection concerns Eric Frederick Coling (1921 - 2018 1481171 Royal Air Force) and contains his memoir, photographs, log book, service documents, letters and an oral history interview. Eric flew operations as a bomb aimer with 50 Squadron before ditching, drifting for several days and time and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by Lynn Corrigan.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Coling, E
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Eric Coling memoir
"Just a lad with a hole in his jersey"
Description
An account of the resource
Time in the RAF including selection as an observer, enrolment at Lord's Cricket Ground, navigational dead reckoning and meteorology training in Eastbourne and Paignton. Time spent on navigational sorties in Grahamstown, South Africa in Ansons and bombing training in Oxfords. Meeting Winifred Scott after she had been dancing at the MECCA ballroom whilst he was at an Operational Training Unit at RAF Upper Heyford. Training as a bomb aimer, crewing up with navigator Bunny Ridsdale, wireless operator Alex Noble, Canadian pilot Ron Code and rear gunner Ray Moad, flying Vickers Wellingtons, including a leaflet drop over Nantes. Move to 1660 Conversion Unit at RAF Swinderby and joining mid-upper gunner Johnny Boyton and flight engineer Spike Langford and flying Manchesters followed by the four-engined Avro Lancaster. Move to No.5 Group, 50 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe, serving under Wing Commander Robert McFarlane. Operations to Hamburg, where window was used for the first time, Mannheim, Nuremberg, Milan, operation Hydra at Peenemünde and the ‘Battle of Berlin’. Best man at sister, Muriel's wedding, who worked for the Ministry of Information at the Government Code and Cypher school at Bletchley Park. Further training in formation and low-level flying. Aircraft 'L-Love' hit by flak and landing at RAF Kirmington. Mine laying outside Gdynia harbour, Poland. Attack by JU88's and ditching in the sea. loss of Bunny Ridsdale, rescue by Danish fishermen, detention by German naval officer and transfer to Dulag Luft, the Luftwaffe Interrogation Centre, and transfer to Stalag 4b, as prisoner of war. Meeting American forces, transfer to Brussels in a DC-3 and repatriation to Great Britain in a sterling. Marriage to Winifred Scott, in St. Peter's Church, Harrogate, with Johnny Boyton as best man. Work with London, Midlands & Scottish railway and later move to Tanzania to work for East African Railways.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andy Barff
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-10
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
South Africa
Great Britain
England
England--Lincolnshire
France
France--Nantes
Germany
Germany--Peenemünde
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Nuremberg
Italy
Italy--Milan
Poland
Poland--Gdynia
Tanzania
South Africa--Makhanda
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Format
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Fourteen page printed document with photographs
Conforms To
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Pending text-based transcription
Identifier
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BBarffAColingEFv1
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
16 OTU
1660 HCU
50 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bomb aimer
bombing
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
crewing up
ditching
Dulag Luft
Gee
H2S
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Lancaster
love and romance
Manchester
Master Bomber
mine laying
observer
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
RAF Kirmington
RAF Padgate
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Swinderby
RAF Upper Heyford
recruitment
training
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Window
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/471/8354/ABirkbyB150729.1.mp3
40d49652d36d4a48be5610dad7fe0f43
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Birkby, Bessie
B Birkby
Tess Birkby
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Birkby, B
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with Leading Aircraftswoman Bessie Birkby (1924 - 2019) and two photographs. She was a Women's Auxilliary Air Force driver stationed at RAF Binbrook, RAF Kelstern and RAF Scampton.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Bessie Birkby and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM. Ok so this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre, the interviewer is Annie Moody and the Interviewee is Bessie?
BB. Birkby.
AM. Birkby, and the interview is taking place at Bessie’s home Wath on Dearne on the 30th of July 2015. So if perhaps Bessie just to start with tell me a little about your background, about your parents and school and stuff like that.
BB. Shall I tell you my age first?
AM. Go on tell me how old you are.
BB. I am ninety one going into ninety two. I was married to my husband Walter Birkby he always got called Wally I got called Tess that was my nick name and eh we had been married sixty three years when Walter died. And eh anyhow I was eighteen when I joined, had to join, because eh my sisters were nurses but I worked in a shop. So it was either going in munitions or going in the forces.
AM. How old were you when you left school Bessie?
BB. I was fourteen.
AM. So what did you do straight from leaving school?
BB. Mostly working in shops, you know [cough] like grocery shops and eh I loved it but then of course I was working in a shop when both my sisters were nurses. So I had to choose, either going in the forces or going in factories where you make bombs and things.
AM. Ok, you could have stayed in the shop, but you wanted to do something?
BB. But I fancied going in, in the forces so I joined and eh my mum put me on the train in Doncaster and I was crying and she was crying but I still wanted to go. But I’d never been, I never left home or, my father worked in the pit and my mum she had five children. I was next to the eldest and eh so we were both upset at me going but I still wanted to go. I was going as far as Bridgenorth anyhow I got on this train and off I went. When I got there, it was a long journey and when I got there, on the last train. I remember where I had to change but I don’t remember where or anything. So I met up with the girls that were going in to join to be a WAAF.
AM. What year was this Bessie?
BB. What year was it it was 1942.
AM. ’42.
BB. Yeah and so [cough] eh when we got there to Bridgenorth, ‘course you had to have a medical and all sorts of thing like that.
AM. What was that like.
BB. Well I had never really been away from home, I never sort of got undressed in front of anybody and it, it was an ordeal. And eh but anyhow I carried on and I made friends and I was very popular because I could do make up, I could do hair and all sorts, I used to love it you know, beautifying. I got lots of friends because they used to come to me.’Oh Bessie will you do my hair or will you do this, pluck my eyebrows?’ And I really enjoyed it but anyhow we had to get up early to get your knife, fork and spoon and what have you. You had to go outside for to wash yourself and eh and anyhow we started marching, we used to have to go on parade. And eh so anyhow I don’t know how long I was marching and what and then of course I put in to be a driver but of course I had to go along to be em trained [?]. So I had to go with girls I go to me MT Sections and em got sort of well anything you know [a little confused].
AM. When you put in to be a driver did you have to have an interview or anything or did they say yes you can be a driver then?
BB. No I had to, in fact they sent me to a place where there were balloons you know and I had to practice putting a balloon up which was like driving a car.
AM. Tell me more about that, how do you put a balloon up.
BB. I was posted to Scotland and so and there we didn’t have we had to go in digs in peoples houses. This lady I went into she were a lovely lady and she took to me. In fact for years I wrote to her but we lived in Borough Muir West and and I were really I loved it sending the balloon up.
AM. What do you mean ‘sending the balloon up.’?
BB. You had to fly it.
AM. How big was it?
BB. Huge, didn’t you remember them balloons, well they were huge weren’t they?
Unknown Male. Like a Zeppelin.
AM. Oh like a Zeppelin? Oh eh I have got you.
BB. They were like as big as a caravan.
AM. Like a barrage balloon?
BB. Yeah.
Unknown Male. So that planes would fly into wires that were holding them.
BB. ‘course it got me going to change gear and one thing and another to learn.
AM. So where were you, were you on the ground.
BB. I were in a cage and balloon were over top of me, I used to have to send them up and Germans were coming over, you know it were queer. But anyhow I think I was there about six months and eh there must have been a place for me to start up for me driving and I was posted to Pwllheli in North Wales then again.
AM. So down, up to Scotland and then across to Wales.
BB. Yeah, down in Pwllheli oh that were, I was six months there but you had to do eh, besides learning to drive you had to do, learn how to eh maintain your vehicle in the morning you put and inspection for your water, your battery what have you and then [cough] you go out driving on the roads. I used to go in all these eh country lanes it were in Pwllheli.
AM. Who was it that were doing the instructing.
BB. We had men instructed.
AM. What were they like?
BB. Well I don’t recall.
AM. What were they like with you I mean, were they ok, women learning to drive?
BB. I were a ‘right with learning this balloon business I knew how to change gear, do the footwork because you had to do it like driving a car and so I was very lucky because I soon learned to drive but I was there six months so I had a thorough training but when you passed out you had to pass out on three vehicles.
AM. Different ones?
BB. Yeah a little one, small and then a fifteen hundred and then a thirty hundred weight and then of course later on it in the time I got to drive a two ton, were it, what were it, crew bus. I used to drive the crew bus. I was first posted to Binbrook when I passed out driving but there were lots of girls who failed and they couldn’t go back driving they had to remuster to another job. But I was very fortunate I passed it all and then I was posted to Binbrook and they were just forming our Squadron 625 Squadron and it was Bomber Command. I forgotten what Group was it One Group? Bomber Command, 625.
Unknown male. You were stationed, no you would have been in Five Group.
BB. Can’t remember.
AM.Anyway 625.
BB. 625 Squadron.
Unknown male. It would be in Five Group.
BB. Yeah and so they were forming this Squadron and then from Binbrook I was posted to Kelstern which was a few mile away because there was a lot of aerodromes in Lincoln at that time, weren’t there and so this were all new but we all had eh to sleep in these eh tin things, what did you call them?
AM. Nissan huts.
BB. Nissan huts and there were ten beds, you just had your bed and what have you. You didn’t have sheets, aircrew had sheets but not.
Unknown male. Aircrew had sheets.
BB. But not.
AM. The girls didn’t .
BB. And we were in these, fireplace in the middle and it were a little round thing and and I don’t know what it, I think it was coal or coke and that were only heating you had. You had to go outside for toilets and what have you, ablutions, it were you know. But, oh it were marvellous and at Kelstern I got very friendly eh and I were post, I were given a job on the ambulance. So I lived in sick quarters and eh with being at Kelstern when that snow came, nobody could get anywhere could they. It were terrible but I [cough] used to take the MO, the Doctor down into Lincoln and I used to drive him about on the small ambulance. There were bigger ambulances for a crew and eh this particular day we were going down into Lincoln and the MO he were a marvellous fellow and he had flying boots on, big coat but then eh, now he says ‘ I shall be about two hours so you go market, have a look round and meet me so and so, and we will come back to camp, to Kelstern.’ So anyhow I did that and I thought while I’m in, ‘cause where I lived down at the old mill at home we had apple trees, pear trees and all sorts. So I thought ‘ I will buy me self some apples.’ And I am [unclear] eating me apple and I went to pick the MO up like and I said ‘would you like and apple sir?’ he said ‘yes I would,’ he said ‘now don’t be getting tummy ache.’ You know before tea time I started reeling, the nurses were saying ‘we are going to fetch the MO to you.’ Because I were crying with pain and of course they fetched him from Officers Mess. When he came he said ‘my dear I will have to take you down to Louth Infirmary.’ They operated on me with appendicitis before midnight. Do you know he stayed with me because I was crying, I wanted me mum, Oh I were in a state. Me mum managed to come and see me I were in a farm house.
AM. So it weren’t the apple. [laugh]
BB. [laugh] No, well I don’t know what it were, anyhow he were brilliant and he stuck with me until next morning when I come round. In them days putting you to sleep it were horrible, dreaming and what not. Anyway he gave me some leave and I were at home about a month I think. Anyhow it was when that snow was on of course there were no flying. So of course I went back to Kelstern and then a month after we got a message to say we were all moving to Scampton.
AM. Just before you moved to Scampton what did you do then when you got back to Kelstern?
BB. I went back on the ambulance
AM. Still the ambulance, so you were driving the MO around who, what else were they using the ambulances for, the crew or.
BB. Well they used the ambulances to follow them back didn’t they? They used to be many a time crashes ‘cause they used to shoot at them didn’t they? It were horrible. Anyhow eh I carried on then and then of course we all went to Scampton, I can’t remember the date at all. So anyhow I know for a fact that all Lancaster bombers from Kelstern, they all got toilet rolls where bombs used to go and they let them all go over the fields and there were white toilet rolls when we moved, when we moved.
AM. Why was that then.
BB. It was just a bit of fun for the farmers, these were aircraft doing this. Anyhow we got to, to and of course with me this one job I did eh I didn’t always be on ambulance. I remember eh there were er er an Officer in command of our MT and he came to Kelstern and he said to whoever were in charge of our MT at that particular time ‘I want one of your best drivers, because I am going visiting eh we shall be away about three weeks.’ He says ‘ I want somebody I can trust.’ And and I was a good driver so they picked me. So he were brilliant now he says, we had a good car, it were really good and we set off and we were going all up North to go to Topcliffe and all them aerodromes and we had to visit all MT departments. He says as we were setting of he says ‘now then I want you to relax and I want you just to think of me as your father. Whatever you want you must tell me and if you are ever in trouble or whatever you do when we get to different Stations I’ll get you sleeping quarters. And I’ll see that you are put, well looked after and you will not have to be frightened and you will have to get in touch with me if, if you are frightened.’
AM. What did he think you would be frightened of?
BB. I don’t know.
AM. All them men.
BB. I didn’t think of it then. You know I weren’t frightened because we lived out, when, when we were girls we lived down on our own in countryside we used to go to school and we couldn’t go home for dinner because it were too far away. We lived down at old mill didn’t we?
Unknown male. Aye [unclear]I remember being down there.
BB. In fact when I used to go home on leave I used to arrange, I used to hitch hike home to as far as Doncaster when I had the leave and eh what I did I used to catch the double decker bus from Doncaster and it always used to go to Brampton Church where I had to get of me last call, you know and it always used to get there about ten o’clock. And where we lived at the old mill I got off the bus and then I come on some steps and to go down these steps and down the road and what I used to do. Me mum used to be watching out for that double decker bus, she could see it from where we lived. And I used to whistle we had two dogs and me mum used to say ‘go on she’s come our Bessie, go and meet her.’ And they used to come as far as bottom of green them dogs and come and meet me home. And we had a big long orchard going down another way didn’t we?
Unknown male. Yeah.
BB. He knows where old mill were ‘cause it were a lovely, lovely cottage where we lived.
AM. Sounds it.
BB. Aye me mum always used to, always she used to always save me a little bit of steak and give me a cuddle. She used to spoil me, anyhow that were, I’m cutting me tale aren’t I. Anyhow I did that for three weeks and I got leave again given and it were wonderful, I enjoyed it and he were a gentleman and we had a burst, we had a burst tyre, I think we were near Topcliffe and and he said I’ll do it and he changed wheel. I said ‘I can do it I am capable.’ He said ‘I’ll do it. ’Because I had been driving. It were marvellous that and, and I were right proud to think they had chosen me, oh it were lovely. Anyhow, and then when we were posted to Scampton that’s when I met me husband but he already got a girl, lady friend. One of me first jobs there was sick quarters again on the ambulance, well I had small ambulance but they had quite a few big ins. Because in fact they had another Squadron there besides our Squadron. In fact there were they had just done eh where they dropped them bombs?
AM. Oh Dambusters.
BB. Yeah we must have been at Kelstern when that was on, it was soon after that when we were posted to Scampton.
AM. So it was 617 Squadron the other one then?
BB. Yeah so anyhow.
AM. What was it like being there with, how many women and how many men ‘ish a lot more men than women?
BB. Oh yeah.
AM. So what was it like.
BB. Well it, I don’t know it well you just did a job you were twenty four hours on and twenty four hours off weren’t we. I really, I had a wonderful life. I met me husband I’d been there quite a bit before I met him.
AM. Tell me a bit more about what you did, you drove the small ambulances.
BB. Yes.
AM. And then what or were you just driving the ambulance right through because I’ve got a picture of you here with the.
BB. That was at Binbrook.
AM. Oh was that at Binbrook.
BB. That was me first.
AM. Right
BB. Yeah that was at Binbrook.
AM. So you were an ambulance driver at Scampton.
BB. And I have another one a lovely one it’s in a it’s in a, in fact somebody came knocking at door one day and said we’ve seen your picture in a pub in Cleethorpes. It was me stood agin a van an RAF vehicle and it’s a lovely picture and it was in this on this, and then above there were all women marching, another two pictures. I am on this picture but I can’t remember myself being on it because I couldn’t see properly, but anyhow.
AM. Tell me about meeting your husband then? [unclear]
BB. Well he already got a girl friend.
AM. On the Base.
BB. On the Base and she was a parsons daughter but nurses used to kid me on and they used to say Bessie ‘you can’t have him because.’ But they used to call me Tess, I didn’t get called Bessie ‘you can’t have him because he has got a girl friend.’ I said ‘I’m not bothered but I’ll keep trying.’ Anyhow he went on leave didn’t he and when he was on leave she went out with a Pilot. Well I didn’t tell him but somebody did so I go me, I don’t know how it came about but I got talking to him and eh, and eh he took me to the pictures and it were Pinocchio, they were a picture on camp and we started going out together then and he had to go to Italy ‘cause they went, what did they go for.
AM. Were they dropping propaganda leaflets and stuff like that.
BB. Aye and he came back with a big thing of fruit and he gave it me and then we went home and I met his mum and dad in Bradford. He lived in Bradford.
AM. What was Wally, he was an Air Gunner.
BB. Yeah he got to be Warrant Officer before he, ‘cause there is his warrant up there, aye but when I met him he was a Sergeant. Then he got to be Flight Sergeant then he were. He ended up looking after prisoners of war eh after war finished. I mean he stayed in a bit longer than I did but eh I came out because I were pregnant.
AM. You were married by then?
BB. I loved him and, and so well we had been married all them years.
AM. You had been married sixty five years.
BB. We had a lovely life in RAF because girls used to come and Bessie pluck me eyebrows, Bessie do me hair, they used to say Tess to me like
AM. Tess
BB. I used to have some gloves on and I used to have Tess written on them. I used to be, I used to drive crew buses at Scampton and it [unclear] ambulance job.
AM. So what was driving the crew bus like, what, what was that?
BB. Well, I mean many a time within two minutes, they’d one go off and two minutes after another one, they were two minutes
AM. Oh eh the planes?
BB. Hundreds, loads, fifty, sixty oh and we used to wait at the end of the runway eh no flying control weren’t it. We used to stop against flying, and then we used to sort of go, go and dodge about or what have you and be there when they came back. Used to be watching them but once when I were driving the ambulance and there were planes came back and Germans were following them because they used to have to put runway lights on. If you were driving a crew bus and you were going to pick lads up that were coming back and they used to say ‘be early for me.’ You know didn’t they, used to breathing down your neck and eh [cough] and there would be no lights on. And you would be driving on and you would see this black brrr and you would go on grass. Oh it were mad and I mean, and but it was sad and all weren’t it especially and there used to be seven coffins go out and you know. They used to follow them back did Germans. It were terrible, they were nearly ready for landing.
Unknown male. Yeah when you were in circuit.
AM. The German fighters, fighter planes.
BB. Yeah but I had a lovely life, I enjoyed every bit of it and I loved him all me life.
AM. Good.
BB. I did really.
AM. What did you do after the war, did you come out more or less straight away.
BB. Well I were quite well on with having me baby but eh I’d been in four years and eh and he come out [cough] eh, [pause] mm, I know I had two children, pity me husband was still in he were looking after Italians and and they were brilliant eh they didn’t make no bother for me husband he was in charge of them, in fact they made him a cabinet.
AM. Where was that Bessie?
BB. It was where Terries are, is it Ipswich where we used to go picking because we got into married quarters, I had me baby she was nine month old, he was still in RAF. And eh, and eh and we were in married quarters and we used to be picking these cherries and eh ‘cherries, excuse me.’ Eh but I had lots of jobs really, I didn’t only drive the ambulance and crew bus I had lots of jobs you, you, you were detailed you know they would leave you so long in the ambulance and then you would be so long on this crew bus and then you would probably eh. I used to have different vehicles, vehicles where I could pop in home going through to Sheffield, yeah I did. My mum used to say ‘Oh goodness me there’s our Bessie, look what she’s got that big thing.’ And I used to be in this two, three ton lorry and and you had to jump over wheels. They couldn’t believe it and eh [laugh] she used to, oh it were lovely. I did used to drive lots of different vehicles and of course I got to be LACW that were leading aircraft woman. But I could have been a corporal but you had to go inside and I didn’t want that job, so I never.
AM. You enjoyed the driving?
BB. I did, I loved it and of course me husband he didn’t drive then Wally but eh he had a, he had a motor bike and we used to go up on leave and I used to ride on the back of his motor bike, but when he got out of the forces he went to the School of Motoring and he got a job British School of Motoring. Because he went to Blackpool, Lytham St Annes with RAF. He had to remuster because eh when flying had finished you know. So; but they were happy days.
AM. Lovely, did you drive after the war?
BB. Oh yes it stood me in good stead that because there weren’t many women drivers. Yeah, I got a job as soon as I got me two little ones to school. Me mum used to live nearby because she moved from where we lived and she got near to where I lived an she used to have two children for me.
AM. So what did you do?
BB. I used to drive for eh, eh war veterans and I used to go out selling bread and cakes and what have you and I had a real good job there.
AM. It must have been, so this was in the 1950’s.
BB. Our eh yeah 1947 Jeff were born and Nigel were born in 1946. I didn’t come out while I think. She were born in March and I didn’t come out until the middle of February because I weren’t showing, couldn’t tell.
AM. As long as you weren’t changing wheels.
BB. I’ve still got me pay book and I’ve still got me husbands pay book.
AM. Oh I might have a photograph of them as well.
BB. I know.
AM. That was excellent, thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Bessie Birkby
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-29
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABirkbyB150729
Conforms To
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Bessie Birkby grew up in Sheffield and volunteered for the Women’s Auxilliary Air Force in 1942. She first worked in Balloon Command in Scotland and then trained to be a driver in North Wales. She was then posted to 625 Squadron at RAF Binbrook but later transferred to RAF Kelstern and worked driving ambulances. She discusses driving the station Medical Officer into Lincoln in the snow and driving crew buses. She developed appendicitis, and had an emergency operation at Louth. Transferred to RAF Scampton, she again drove ambulances and crew buses, she met her husband Wally an air gunner and they were married for sixty five years. She talks about how the station was attacked by night fighters. While in the RAF she managed frequent visits home, sometimes in RAF vehicles. On leaving the Air Force she had three children and worked as a driver selling bakery items.
Contributor
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Hugh Donnelly
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Balloon Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Shropshire
Wales--Pwllheli
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
Format
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00:31:39 audio recording
625 Squadron
entertainment
ground personnel
love and romance
medical officer
military living conditions
Nissen hut
RAF Binbrook
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Kelstern
RAF Scampton
service vehicle
training
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/528/8762/ARayWBJ161126.1.mp3
29b9bbf1c7e6e524e9b6ba51ed3c1f8e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ray, Joan
W B J Ray
Winifred Beatrice Joan Ray
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Ray, WBJ
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Joan Ray. She worked in a factory producing panels for Lancasters.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: So, for the second time, my name’s Annie Moody, and I’m here on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre and Lincoln University. I’m in Wheatley Hills near Doncaster at the minute, with a lady called Joan, and Joan’s son’s here and some friends as well, and we’re going to talk about Joan’s experiences in the war, if that’s alright. And your full name Joan is?
JR: Winifred Beatrice Joan.
AM: Winifred Beatrice.
JR: Me single name was McGuire.
AM: McGuire. What was your date of birth Joan?
JR: 11th March ‘25.
AM: 1925. Where were you born?
JR: In the hospital that used to be in Wood Street but it’s not there no more. Do you know Doncaster at all?
AM: No. So, in Doncaster?
JR: You know where Wood Street is, don’t you?
Other: No.
JR: Well you know where you go down to Waterdale, if you’re going on the bus you come down Moorgate, turn round and it’s just up there, Wood Street, there’s a nice café and that in there, where we go.
AM: Right. So?
JR: So if you come from Gaumont, well there used to be a Gaumont there, didn’t there? And cross over and you come past that theatre that they pulled down as well, and it’s just across from there, that’s Wood Street.
AM: But you’re a Doncaster girl then, and you said that you’re a twin?
JR: Yeah.
AM: Yeah, so what about brothers, any other brothers and sisters?
JR: Yes, I had two more brothers and a sister.
AM: Younger or older than you? What were the age ranges?
JR: Well I were oldest, then me brother that lived at Banbury, he’s died, he was next, then there was me sister, then me other brother.
AM: Right. So they were all younger than you. What did your, what did your Dad do, what?
JR: He was a bus driver and a lorry driver, carried bricks around for builders.
AM: Right. And what about your Mum, was your Mum at home looking after you lot?
JR: Aye, and she used to work in a hairdressers and we used to wash all towels. I used to go and help her, and we used to have to wash all, fetch all towels and things home, wash ‘em, get ‘em dry, and we’d got no driers and take ‘em back [laughter] and then tidy hairdressers up.
AM: Right. Tell me a little bit about your childhood then, what sort of schools you went to and -
JR: Well I didn’t go to -
AM: And what you got up to.
JR: I didn’t go to school a lot because of me eyes, I were walking round with a pad round a lot of time.
AM: Tell me a little bit about this, about your eyes then, about what, what happened.
JR: Well it sounds as though when my brother died, I had a fit and when I come round, me sight had gone and they brought it back a bit in this eye, I’ve had loads of operations, but they couldn’t bring any more back.
AM: Right, and your brother died when he was four, I think you said, from meningitis?
JR: I can remember him ‘cause they had coaches and horses them days for funeral, can remember it.
AM: Right, and then you just completely lost your eyesight in both eyes at first?
JR: Yes, but me Mum paid for a specialist to sort me out, paid for me, and I had all these operations, and he lived on Thorne Road, you know near church, lived in one of them big houses, and used to climb all steps to go to top, and he was a coloured man and he was a specialist and he did a lot for me but they couldn’t, couldn’t come back.
AM: So what was your childhood like then if you, effectively, were blind?
JR: Well I were at ‘ome a lot and I couldn’t go out and play a lot ‘cause I’d got this pad round me, had to wear it most of the day, and I couldn’t have a bike and I couldn’t go to pictures on a Saturday morning with all others ‘cause it’s no good for your eyes.
AM: So you literally had to wear a pad right round your eyes?
JR: Yeah, it was like a thick pad, cotton wool pad. I had to walk around with that, I can remember that.
AM: So when did, what happened then, how you said you got some sight back in one eye, so what sort of age are we talking about there?
JR: I can’t remember.
AM: Ish, were you still little or would you have been a teenager by then?
JR: I was little. I was four I know when I started wearing glasses. When I went to school, I were only kid in school with glasses.
AM: Oh crikey, and this is in?
JR: It’s different now they tell me.
AM: In the twenties, so it was before National Health as well?
JR: Oh yeah.
AM: So your parents were able to pay for you to see someone?
JR: Yeah, they were very good really doing that.
AM: So what did you do if you weren’t at school?
JR: Help me mother, do washing, all sorts.
AM: Even though -
JR: ‘Cause she’d got bronchitis me Mum, I used to do washing and clean up and all sorts of things, and it were washing them days with a dolly tub, not just putting in a machine.
AM: And a mangle?
JR: Yeah, a wooden one.
AM: Pulling it through, pulling the sheets through the mangle?
JR: Yeah, yeah, that’s what I used to do.
AM: So what age were you when you did finally get to school then, ish?
JR: I’d be in juniors.
AM: Right.
JR: So it’d be about seven or eight wouldn’t it?
AM: Seven or eight. So how did that work then given that you hadn’t been to school so the other kids would be able to do things that -
JR: I couldn’t do.
AM: That you couldn’t, so what was that like?
JR: Well I can’t really remember but I didn’t do a lot of writing or anything like that. And I didn’t read, I couldn’t read much, can’t read much now.
AM: Can’t imagine.
JR: I can’t sew, I can knit, spend money [laughter].
AM: So then -
JR: I do voluntary work and that.
AM: Right.
JR: Been in voluntary work a long time.
AM: Oh, I’ll ask you about that in a bit. So how old were you when you left, when you finally left school then?
JR: Fourteen.
AM: And then what? What?
JR: I got a case packed and put on a bus and sent into service.
AM: Tell us about -
JR: I worked in kitchen.
AM: Yeah, tell us a bit more about, where to?
JR: Hesley Hall, that’s in Doncaster, I don’t know if you know. There were thirteen servants and this was a lady and her companion, and I were in kitchen. I used to have to go and wring chickens’ necks, bring ‘em in, let ‘em cool off, clean ‘em, pull feathers out of ‘em and then cook ‘em, and now I don’t eat ‘em.
AM: I’m not surprised. How did, you said you got your case packed and off you went, so how did your, did your parents find that job for you? Well they must have done mustn’t they?
JR: They probably took me to Employment Centre and that.
AM: Right.
JR: And when I could talk to me Mum, ‘cause you didn’t talk to your parents much them days did ya? It’s all different now, and I asked her and she said, ‘we thought it were best for you because of your eyes’. Anyway, war was on then, weren’t it?
AM: Well when you were fourteen, what year were you born again?
JR: ‘25.
AM: ’25, so yeah so the war would be just starting when you were fourteen.
JR: Yeah, we had, it’s a big house, Hesley Hall, and it’s got its own church, we had to go to church every morning with a clean cap and apron on, and if you hadn’t got a clean cap and apron on you got told off, and we had to go to church on a Sunday and all, they let you put your own clothes on them days for Sunday. Yeah they let you put your own clothes, go in your own.
AM: What hours did you work?
JR: I got up at five o’clock to black-lead a fireplace and put kettle on, ‘cause we didn’t have electric cookers or anything, we just had one of these big fireplaces with two ovens.
AM: A range, a big range? Black-leading the whole thing then?
JR: Then I had to go and get myself cleaned up and start doing breakfasts and stuff. Anyway, when I was there, the war was on and a lot of soldiers come to live at Hesley Hall, they had all the tents and everything, the officers lived in Hesley Hall and we had to look after them an’ all.
AM: Where did you, where did you sleep?
JR: In Hesley Hall, right up top.
AM: Up in the - shared rooms?
JR: No, I had me own.
AM: Shared beds, shared beds I bet?
JR: No, I had me own room, me own bed.
AM: You did have your own, oh right.
JR: Yeah, I were on me own.
AM: Did you enjoy it?
JR: Well I didn’t, to think going back looking at it, I don’t know how I did, but you didn’t know any different did ya?
AM: Yeah.
JR: But there were thirteen servants and we used to do these long meals at night, seven or eight courses, some of courses were only like a slice, two fingers of toast with sardines on and things, asparagus on a bit of toast, but there used to be six or seven courses.
AM: Um, right.
JR: But we didn’t have to wash up, butler did that.
AM: You got away with that? So what was your title, kitchen maid?
JR: Yeah.
AM: Did you get -
JR: I used to make butter, I used to go and help milk cows, come back and make butter, then I made two stone of bread.
AM: Tell me about making butter.
JR: Oh it’s good making, well it’s hard, it was in a machine not like now, you had to turn it all the time, but it were good patting it up in ‘cause all the people that worked at Hesley Hall, we had their ration cards so we had to make butter and take it round to all these houses, the gardeners and all them sort of people, ‘cause we had the ration book. It’s good knocking it out into pounds.
AM: It was in a big square, weren’t it?
JR: Yeah, but you used to have to knock it down into rations, you only had so much, about six ounces, two ounces a person.
AM: Did they not get a bit more because you were there making it rather than having to go to the shop?
JR: I had to weigh it out, didn’t I?
AM: Oh right, into greaseproof paper.
JR: Um.
AM: So when they sold.
JR: And this kitchen I worked in, it were bigger than my downstairs, and I used to have to scrub floor.
AM: Right, were you good?
JR: And I had to scrub all floor as well, what led to other rooms.
AM: And when you say scrub?
JR: I meant scrub with a brush [emphasis].
AM: On your knees?
JR: Yes.
AM: So you’re up at five?
JR: And then I worked in the scullery, in the scullery a lot as well, doing vegetables and all that, then I’d come with cook in kitchen.
AM: So you’re up at five, black-leading the grate, clean yourself.
JR: And I wanted to go to bed.
AM: So what time did you go to bed?
JR: It were late, about, ten, half past ten something like that, ‘cause we had to clean kitchen up and everything.
AM: So you’re working literally the whole way through?
JR: I got one day off a week to take me money home to me Mum.
AM: I was going to ask how much did you get paid?
JR: Eight shillings a week.
AM: Eight shillings, that sounds quite a lot actually for then, but you divvyed it up to your Mum, the whole lot. Were you allowed to keep any?
JR: Yes she gave me a bit back, I remember buying me first pair of shoes, nineteen and eleven.
AM: Did you get your uniforms, so you got your uniforms off, you didn’t have to buy?
JR: No you had to buy your own.
AM: You had to buy your own uniform?
JR: Um, we used to go to a shop in Doncaster that sold all uniforms and that.
AM: Right.
JR: Um.
AM: Crikey.
JR: And they were long dresses and these aprons right down to the.
AM: What about on your head?
JR: A hat on.
AM: Like a mop cap thing? Crikey. So we’re at the beginning of the war, there’s soldiers there, are they actually, so they’re in the house?
JR: The officers were, the soldiers were in the tents and things outside.
AM: What were they doing? Were they square bashing and stuff or-
JR: Well they used to go off and do different things so I don’t exactly know what they did. I had a boyfriend, he were called Les, a soldier.
AM: Where did you meet him?
JR: Hesley Hall.
AM: You actually met him there?
JR: Um. Used to have to take these dogs for a walk that belonged to lady and sort of started talking, he were called Les.
AM: What was the, the relationship, if there was any, between the upstairs and the downstairs?
JR: Well I hardly ever saw the lady, only when we went to church, and her companion. They never came to kitchen or anything, the housekeeper did all the ordering and stuff.
AM: Right.
JR: Um.
AM: And did you all have your own pews in the church?
JR: Yes, we were right at the top.
AM: Right [laughter]. So you’d been doing this for, so how many years were you doing that?
JR: Well the lady died, I must have been about sixteen. So, her son offered me a job to go and work at his house but I wouldn’t go. So then I went to employment place and they sent me to work at ‘ospital and then that’s where they called me up, from ‘ospital. I were a ward maid there.
AM: You were a ward maid at the hospital? So when you say they called you up, how did that actually happen?
JR: Well everybody was called up at seventeen and a half, you just got your papers didn’t you?
AM: Yeah, girls, if they weren’t married got, were called up weren’t they? So you got your papers calling you and where did you have to go with them?
JR: To employment place.
AM: Right, and what were your choices, were you given any choice of what you did?
JR: Not really.
AM: So what, what did they do, interview you, talk to you, ask you or just -
JR: No they didn’t interview you, ask you what you wanted to do or anything, they just give you a job, and that were it.
AM: And that was it?
JR: Probably got that sort of a job to go to ‘ospital because I’d been in service you see. But we used to, in war, we used to help make beds and all sorts, clean them wards, move all beds, they don’t move beds now.
AM: Did you get paid for it, Joan?
JR: At ‘ospital, yeah.
AM: Yeah, so it’s war work.
JR: Yeah, yeah I got paid for that. I can’t remember what I got paid, but I got paid.
AM: Yeah. So, you’re seventeen and half now, so how long were you at the hospital for?
JR: Oh not so long.
AM: No.
JR: ‘Cause they called me up and they sent me to Brigg’s. No choice then.
AM: They called you?
JR: They called me up and sent me to Brigg’s to do Lancasters.
AM: Right, Briggs did you say?
JR: Brigg’s that’s what the place was called.
AM: Right, where was that?
JR: Bottom of Carr Hill.
AM: In Doncaster again?
JR: Well it’s just outside a few miles, in’t it?
AM: Yeah, so tell me about what you did then. When you first got there and they said, ‘Joan, this is what you’re doing’ .
JR: Um. I were a riveter.
AM: You were a riveter?
JR: On the side panels, you know, the side panels?
AM: Yeah.
JR. We used to have to lift them up, put all these metal strips across and put rivets through ‘em all.
AM: How did you learn how to do it?
JR: Well you just got on with it, just told you what to do, and you got on with it, and I did a bit of welding, but not a lot ‘cause of me glasses.
AM: Right.
JR: But these panels were heavy to lift up to put on a stand and long [giggles].
AM: And did you know what, I’m just trying to think of phrasing me question, so it’s a side panel on the Lancaster?
JR: Yes.
AM: What’s there at that point, has it got wings or anything like that?
JR: Oh no.
AM: So it’s the body of it?
JR: It was just blank.
AM: Right.
JR: And we’d put all these metal strips and riveted them on, it strengthens them don’t it sort of thing?
AM: Yeah. So when you say ‘riveted them on’ describe, describe that to me.
JR: Well there was two of you working together, one had to hold a block to hold this rivet in then the lady on the other side, or whoever it was, hammered it in.
AM: Right. So it’s not with like electric machines like we’ve got now, it was just sheer hard work. What were you dressed in, what did you look like?
JR: We used to have an overall and that’s where I started wearing trousers. Yeah we had an overall and very often had to wear a turban ‘cause of your hair.
AM: Yeah, tied up.
JR: ‘Cause I used to use the drill as well you see, to drill all these home and one day the drill fell off, it fell, it dropped, and it stuck in me foot.
AM: Oh, tell me a bit more about that.
JR: I had to pull it out, and all this blood.
AM: So you pulled it out, no health and safety in them days then, you just got on with it?
JR: Yeah. There was a nurse there I had to go and see her and she said, ‘You’d better go home’.
AM: Crikey, you know when you say you wore a turban, what was your hair like then?
JR: Curly like it is now.
AM: Yeah. How did you wear it though, was it?
JR: Well you had to tuck it up didn’t you?
AM: So it was long, all pushed up into the scarf?
JR: It’s always been curly.
AM: Yeah. So tell me a bit more about the Lancasters then, what you got up to.
JR: What do you mean, what we got up to?
AM: Well, anything [laughter]. Were there any -
JR: Didn’t have time to get up to a lot, we were working all the time. We used to have a, the only good thing was, you used to be able to get a good dinner and things and used to be able to buy cakes and things to take home for your Mother, and that which was good, and we used to have an ENSA concert every dinner time.
AM: Right.
JR: Um yeah.
AM: How many of you were working there was it?
JR: Hundreds.
AM: Hundreds, it was big then?
JR: Yes, it’s a big place isn’t it? Hundreds, thousands, men and women, ‘cause they made the engines there as well you know.
AM: Right.
JR: And they sent them to Hatfield in London. Yeah, we were at this side riveting and the men were doing engines and that on the other side, but it’s quite a big place.
AM: Um. Would you, were you aware, kind of thinking back, were you aware of just what it was you were making?
JR: No not really, not ‘til I got older, no.
AM: No.
JR: And when I saw a Lancaster, I was surprised how big they were.
AM: When did you actually get to see one, full-fledged with its wings and everything?
JR: Er, I saw, Tony took me didn’t he, where did he take me down South somewhere?
AM: Oh so much, much later than?
JR: Yeah.
John: She didn’t see one in the war, that’s what the lady’s asking you.
JR: No, no.
AM: Did you see any of them actually flying, were you bombed, were you?
JR: Yes, but Doncaster was bombed, yes.
AM: So what was that like?
JR: Bentley was worst.
AM: Right, which is, yes so we’ve just come up through Bentley to get here, off pass.
JR: Yeah that was worst ‘cause a lot of houses were bombed and me husband had a friend called Josh, and he went to pictures and when he come home his house weren’t there, they’d all gone, and Balby got bombed a lot.
AM: What was it like?
JR: Awful, it were terrible.
AM: Where you ever outside or, so where did you go, did the air raid sirens go off and you had to -
JR: Well you had to go in your shelter, we used to go in coal house. It was, well I were in a council house, there was a house there and a passage, in the passage there was a coal house, and a coal house on the other lady’s side, we used to have to go in there.
AM: Right I think we’ve jumped a bit now haven’t we, is this when you were married?
JR: No.
AM: Oh right, hang on, ‘cause you mentioned your husband.
JR: Yeah, well that was after, when I were at home, that’s what we did we went in the coal house.
AM: Right, got you, got you.
JR: I weren’t married when Josh got bombed in Bentley, I weren’t married then.
AM: Right, so when you say in the coal house, was it, that’s not underground though is it?
JR: No, no, it were just through the kitchen, you went through the kitchen and the door there, and they used to have like a shutter that pulled out, the coal used to be delivered through it.
AM: Through a chute into it, yeah. So how was that going to save you then, when being in the house wouldn’t?
JR: That’s what we used to do.
AM: Did you sleep in there?
JR: Yeah, sometimes.
AM: And the coal was still in there?
JR: Aye, coal were at that end and we were all at this end where we’d put some seats and things.
AM: And how many of you were there then, ‘cause you’ve got your younger sisters and brothers?
JR: There were six of us when I -
AM: And the whole lot of you, there in the coal house?
JR: When I were fourteen and the war was still on when I went to Hesley.
AM: How long, going back to the Lancaster factory, how long did you work there for?
JR: From seventeen and a half to twenty-one.
AM: So four years. Riveting, always riveting?
JR: Welding a bit.
AM: What were your fingers like? I can’t -
JR: You didn’t have gloves or anything. These rivets are not very big [laughs].
AM: Did you ever whack your fingers?
JR: Oh aye, yeah.
AM: What other sort of people worked there, was it all girls or were there any?
JR: There were lads, older men and older ladies but with ‘usbands in the army and things.
AM: Yeah.
JR: They used to come, they worked there as well.
AM: And the older men were the ones who were too old?
JR: For the army and that.
AM: Okay, so what did you do for entertainment?
JR: Well I used to go dancing a bit and then I joined a youth club and went there. A lot of us, a few of us from the factory went to this youth club, it was down off Hallgate, it’s a church, there used to be a youth club in it.
AM: Right.
JR: The church is still there, it’s called Free something, yes went to this youth club, and we used to have to walk home at night ‘cause all buses finished at nine o’clock, you could walk home them days. Couldn’t do that now can you?
AM: Well not, no, I wouldn’t want to. Where did you go dancing?
JR: Schools in Balby.
AM: And who were you dancing with?
JR: Anybody who asked me to dance.
AM: But if all the young men were in the army?
JR: Well Jack wasn’t in the army. He was, I met Jack at this youth club, he used to go dancing.
AM: Right, so was Jack, did Jack become your husband?
JR: Yes. He was a Bevin boy, they called him up because his Mum had a, didn’t have an husband, she had a lot of young children, they let Jack go into be a Bevin boy instead of going into the army.
AM: Where did you meet Jack?
JR: In this youth club.
AM: You met him at the youth club?
JR: He took me thru’pence off me to get in [laughs].
AM: So he was a Bevin boy, how old was he, was he the same age as you or younger?
JR: A couple of years older weren’t he?
AM: A couple of years older and what?
JR: An he were secretary, take your money off you and all that.
AM: Right, so you gave him the eye, or he gave you the eye?
JR: Well me friend, Irene, well we went, they asked, Jack and this friend of his Josh, asked us to go to pictures with ‘em. And we went to pictures at Bentley, and I went with Jack, and Irene went with Josh, yeah. Went to pictures in Bentley, that picture place is still there now and it’s awful, right up in Bentley.
AM: And how long were you going out with each other then, before you got married?
JR: Oh that’s a sore point, innit?
John: Um.
AM: Oh.
JR: I wanted to get married at nineteen, and me Dad says, ‘There’s no weddings here’, oh dear, and then when I got to twenty one he said, ‘You’re not getting married’. I said ‘Well I’m twenty one’, he said, ‘Well we’re not having you getting married’, anyway he wouldn’t let me get married, so I went off and got married.
AM: So you just did it anyway?
JR: I lived with Jack’s Mum for a couple of years and Tony was born about a year after, and Jack’s Mum lived in this terraced house and there were no bathroom, no hot water, just a copper in the corner where you had to boil hot water, toilet right down road, garden, and when I had Tony, me son, the doctor come to the ‘ouse, they used to them days and he says, ‘You can’t stop here with a young baby’ so he got me a prefab in [indistinct] and I was the last prefab in that street. I saw all these others go up, yeah, he says, ‘You can’t live here’, and I’ve been up here over sixty odd, seventy years.
AM: Seventy years. So he was a Bevin boy, what was that like then?
JR: Awful. He had been in the pit because you, a lot of the boys went in pit straight from school especially if their fathers and that worked there, and then he trained as a decorator and then he was, when the war finished and that he went back to his decorating and that, and then he run his own business.
AM: Right. ‘Cause they didn’t really get any recognition either did they, the Bevin boys, ‘cause they weren’t in the army or the RAF or in the forces.
JR: No, well they did get some recognition later on didn’t they?
John: Um.
JR: But me, Jack had died and they wouldn’t give it him would they?
John: No.
AM: So they wouldn’t do it posthumously? Had to be younger, crikey.
JR: And it’s ten years last weekend that he died.
AM: Yeah. Were you happy though?
JR: Yeah.
AM: Good, and you got your two.
JR: It were brilliant. Going from Jack’s Mum to this prefab, ‘cause with having no bathroom, going down garden for toilet and everything, I come to that prefab, it’d got a lovely bathroom, central heating, own toilet.
AM: I was just going to say I know what a prefab is but for anybody coming along, describe what a prefab is.
JR: It were them double-deckers not the single ones it were.
AM: And they were literally made out of prefabricated?
JR: Yeah, yeah. Paper stuff, the walls were paper, with Jack being a decorator, he couldn’t strip them or anything that’s why we moved here, ‘cause he couldn’t strip the walls or anything.
AM: But they were?
JR: They’ve altered them all now.
AM: But they were built directly after the war weren’t they, when there was a big housing shortage?
JR: They were ever so warm with central heating and everything, it were brilliant.
AM: And that was a long time before most houses had central heating?
JR: Yeah.
AM: Kitchen?
JR: Yeah, nice kitchen.
AM: Well everything, inside loo?
JR: Yeah.
AM: How long did you live in the prefab for then?
JR: About eight year. Eight or nine years.
AM: Right, ‘cause initially they were supposed to be temporary weren’t they? For maybe I don’t know.
JR: Ten years. They are pulling some down now aren’t they?
AM: A lot, a lot, funnily enough, there was a big prefab estate where I lived and we all called it Tin Town, everybody lived in Tin Town.
JR: There was a lot at Balby, a lot of prefabs the single ones, but these were all double-decker but they were lovely.
AM: Yeah.
JR: I got the key on Christmas Eve, we couldn’t move in though ‘cause there were no electric.
AM: Right.
JR: So we had to wait ‘til after Christmas.
AM: Bet you loved it though, didn’t you?
JR: Yeah. It was brilliant.
AM: Have you guys got any questions?
Other: Did you ever see your Mum and Dad again?
JR: Yes, when Tony, well I kept in touch with me Mum, but when Tony were born, I thought he ought to see his Grandma so I took him.
Other: Ah.
AM: Why did your Dad -
JR: And I went, I went, when I were there and me Dad turn up with his lorry, ‘cause he used to go all over, he’d drop in for a cup of tea, there’s me in back kitchen, him in lounge ‘cause he didn’t want to see me.
Other: Oh dear.
AM: Forgive me for asking but why, why did he not want you to get married, why?
JR: I don’t know but he’d stopped it. I’d booked it at a church and he went to stop it, we had to go somewhere else, but when he died he said to Jack ‘You’d took me little’, we were sat with him ages before he died and when he died he said ‘You took me little girl off me’, just before he died. He’d had it on his mind all that time.
AM: All those years.
JR: And I’d had, me Mum died and we used to go and look after me Dad, didn’t we? Take him baking, his dinners and everything for years, um yeah, and me Dad were lovely when I were a kid, he used to take us shopping and buy stocks and things for us but -
AM: We’ll never know.
JR: Yeah so I went back home and I used to have ‘em here, didn’t I, for Christmas and everything?
AM: And have you, you just got your two boys, Tony and John. Grandchildren?
JR: Yeah, I’ve got four grandchildren and five great grandchildren.
AM: Five great grandchildren, crikey.
JR: [Laughs] That’s where Tony is this weekend.
AM: Right. Oh of course you said.
JR: ‘Cause Rose is two tomorrow.
AM: Have I, have I missed anything, John?
John: She’s not two is she? I thought she were one, but she’s probably two.
JR: Eh?
John: I thought she were one today or tomorrow.
JR: Two, she’s two tomorrow.
John: Two by -
AM: Time flies.
John: It does.
AM: Have I missed anything John, that you know that your Mum’s should be telling?
John: Well she’s told me lots of things over the years, most of which she’s sort of told you but there’s various bits and pieces that she hasn’t.
JR: [Laughs].
AM: Oh, come on.
JR: What haven’t I told ‘em?
John: You what?
JR: What haven’t I told ‘em?
John: Well you told me you wanted to go in the navy.
JR: Yeah.
John: And they wouldn’t let you go in the navy.
JR: No and then they wouldn’t let me go into ATS.
John: Well there you are, you didn’t tell this lady that.
AM: When you say they wouldn’t, who’s they?
JR: The, who interviews you and the medical and all that.
AM: At the Labour Exchange?
JR: And you have a medical when you go in army or navy, ‘cause there were no dressing gowns, and I used to be walking round with no clothes on most of the flipping day, when you went out to different people, no dressing gowns!
AM: All girls I hope?
JR: Aye [laughter].
AM: No boys. Was that because of your eyes?
JR: And you had to go to Sheffield for that. Pardon?
AM: Was that because of your eyes that they wouldn’t let you do that?
JR: Yes, I could have made tea in ATS, worked in kitchens.
AM: Did you resent it then, having to go doing the riveting, or were you happy there once you were, once you were doing it?
JR: Well you didn’t think about it did you, you were just [indistinct].
AM: Did as you were told?
JR: You just had to go.
AM: Yeah.
JR: Um.
John: You told me that you used to do overtime and finish about ten o’clock at night and there were no buses.
JR: Yeah.
John: So you had to walk ‘ome.
AM: Yeah you said you had to walk home, yeah.
JR: I didn’t walk on me own, there used to be a few of us going the same way.
AM: Yeah.
John: And who did you see in these concerts then at dinnertime?
AM: Oh at the -
JR: Betty Driver and all them sort of people.
AM: Yeah, what did Betty Driver do, was she a, she was a singer?
JR: A singer um.
AM: Anybody else who became famous?
JR: I just can’t remember now, but Betty Driver, I can remember her, and there used to be a couple, a man and a lady who used to come, and I can’t think of their name.
AM: Was it Workers’ Playtime or did that come afterwards?
JR: Well we called it ENSA concerts, so I don’t know about Workers’ Playtime.
John: You weren’t on the radio?
JR: What?
John: The concerts were never on the radio?
JR: No.
AM: No, ‘cause I think some of the ENSA ones were the Workers’ Playtime ones weren’t they?
JR: Um, yeah.
AM: Kept you all entertained then?
JR: Sometimes we worked seven days a week, sometimes we got a weekend off.
AM: Going back to the big house, this is just things jumping into my mind now, if you were all, if all the servants, were all the servants called up? And if so who then looked after the -
JR: No they were all different ages, the butler and that was older and the chief cook was older, yeah, you know.
AM: Right.
JR: Yeah.
AM: Right so it was just you.
JR: And a lot of the servants had their houses round them, they had a house. Housekeeper and top servants had houses.
AM: ‘Cause life in houses like that pretty much changed completely after the war didn’t they, when once you’d all been out working and doing other things people didn’t want to, go back to domestic service.
JR: No, no.
AM: It’s fascinating.
John: You used to tell me about cockroaches in the ‘ospital.
AM: Oh go on.
JR: I used to help in wards and that, and I used to clean nurses’ bedrooms and I worked in kitchen. Before you could go in kitchen to start cooking, you had to sweep cockroaches up and that.
Other: Ugh.
AM: Live ones?
JR: Yeah and I lived in nurses’ home when I worked there and we had to walk from nurses’ home, right across to old ‘ospital and yeah, we used to have to pick, sweep cockroaches up and all that and get in kitchen to see what any bats flying about.
AM: Bats?
JR: These cockroaches were awful though, ‘cause they’re that flipping quick.
Other: [Laughter].
AM: It doesn’t, I’m lost for words [laughter]. I can’t imagine that now.
John: So what did you do, how did you find out that you weren’t going to work at Briggs anymore. Was that after the war finished?
JR: When I got married, I finished.
AM: Yeah, once women got married then that, that war work could come to an end then, but for -
JR: That were ’46 when I got married.
AM: Yeah, ‘cause yeah you were called up for war work whatever form that took, and that could be anything from scrubbing floors, riveting, you know, depending where you were sent. Did you ever think about, oh you did think about joining the forces and they wouldn’t let you would they? Well.
JR: Me brother was in the navy, he went in the navy, me older brother, the other two were too young.
AM: Yeah. Did he come through it alright?
JR: Yeah, he’d had a nasty time, he were in sea for hours sometimes and that, but he come through it.
AM: It is a completely different way of life, and then to move and then to get your house and be married and - did you ever work again after that, did you go back to work after you’d had your children?
JR: Jack used to go and decorate, they built all these new houses ,all round at Hedlington and all over, he’s built all these new houses. He worked for a Mr Moisey who was a, had a building business, didn’t he? And Jack were decorator for him and he used to say, ‘Joan’ll clean ‘ouse up when I’ve finished!’ [laughter].
AM: And did you?
JR: ‘Course [emphasis].
AM: You did?
JR: Got Tony in a pushchair and when he went, after it all got, that is he started on his own, you’d be about five when he started on his own, wouldn’t you? And he used to tell ladies, ‘Joan’ll come and clean up for ya’, so I used to go and clean houses [laughs].
John: You’d clean Moisy’s office.
JR: Yeah.
John: Used to take me there Mum, used to play in the sandpit.
JR: Yes in the pushchair.
AM: So your memories then were going round all the houses? Gosh.
JR: Yeah, started on his own, ‘Joan’ll come and clean up after me’.
John: What did you do at Evening Post?
JR: Worked in kitchens, in canteen rather, not kitchens, where they all came for their meals.
AM: So back to cooking again?
JR: And that closed didn’t it?
John: Um.
JR: I lost me job.
John: Then you went to the hotel.
JR: And then I went to work at a hotel on Thorne Road. That were [indistinct]. I were in kitchen there doing breakfasts.
AM: So that domestic service has got a lot to answer for. Apart from -
John: Then you went to prison, Mum.
AM: Oh come on, to prison? [laughter].
JR: I didn’t have handcuffs on! [emphasis]
AM: Come on, you have to tell me now [laughter].
JR: I went as a volunteer.
AM: Oh you said you’d done a lot volunteer work, yeah. Tell me about that.
JR: Well I was working at ‘ospital as a volunteer and it come through that they wanted volunteers at prison, that new prison that opened. So me and me friend, I had a friend called Eleanor, we used to go out and what, and she said, ‘We’ll go there’, and then we went voluntary in this prison, new prison in Doncaster.
AM: When you say volunteering, what did you do then?
JR: Made tea and made sandwiches, and served bacon sandwiches and all sorts we made in prison, served prisoners, seen loads of tea being thrown at people. They used to, prisoners, they used to, family used to go and buy a tray of tea and go back to table to prisoners and if they didn’t want it they just chucked it at ‘em, and another thing that was bad in prison as well was drugs. Used to put in babies nappies and anywhere they could put ‘em.
AM: How long ago are we talking here? What, what, round about when would this be?
JR: I’ve got a plaque, it’s got a date on [laughter]..
John: Can you manage?
JR: Go and fetch my plaque?
John: Where is it?
JR: It’s in kitchen.
AM: So how many years did you do volunteer work for?
JR: I done it.
John: She’s just finished.
AM: A long time.
JR: When John went to university, I started at, I started at Oxfam first.
AM: Right.
JR: Then that closed, then I went to Shelter and that closed.
AM: There’s a pattern here isn’t there?
John: Yeah [laughter].
JR: I went to, I was still at Shelter when I worked, the ‘ospital had just opened a coffee shop and I went when it were brand new, and that’s when I went there, and I’ve just retired from there.
AM: You’ve just retired from there, how long ago?
John: I can’t find your prison one.
JR: It’s on the shelf.
John: Have a look.
JR: It’s silver.
AM: So the, what I’m looking at now, is a certificate of appreciation awarded to Joan Ray, in recognition of her valuable contributions to Doncaster and Bassetlaw Hospitals, NHS Foundation Trusts and that is 2013, so that is only three years ago. So, you were still volunteering there up until your late eighties?
JR: Yeah. That’s right I was there twenty eight year.
AM: Blimey. Oh here we are here’s the prison one. So Joan worked at HM & YOI Youth Offenders Institute at Doncaster from June 1994 to June 1999, in recognition of your five years valuable service as a volunteer.
JR: Yes, I retired from there when Jack was ill.
AM: Yeah, and then went to the hospital? I’ll tell you a story about Doncaster and Bassetlaw when I’ve switched my thing off. In fact, I’m going to switch off now, but that was so interesting and useful.
JR: Interesting.
Other: That was hard. That was so -
AM: It is.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Joan Ray
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-11-26
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Sound
Identifier
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ARayWBJ161126
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Civilian
Format
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00:42:30 audio recording
Description
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Joan Ray was born in Doncaster on the 11th March 1925.
Joan suffered problems with her eyes in her early life and tells of the impact it had on her life, including problems with reading and writing.
She spent time in domestic service, working at Hesley Hall in Doncaster, which became a temporary home for soldiers, and she tells of her daily tasks, both for looking after the lady of the house and when the soldiers arrived.
Joan then went to work for Brigg’s and became a riveter, working on side panels of the Avro Lancaster, doing some welding as well.
After the war, Joan married and spent time working with her husband who was a decorator. She also used her skills she learnt in domestic service to help out various charities, the local hospital and also in a prison kitchen.
Contributor
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Vivienne Tincombe
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--Doncaster
entertainment
home front
Lancaster
love and romance
sanitation
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/595/8864/PLashamB1501.2.jpg
da6d480d6a799fe46724652cc35229e9
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/595/8864/ALashamB150716.1.mp3
8a9d33f42649006ef03208c246e5f74a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lasham, Bob
R L C Lasham
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Lasham, RLC
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Flying Officer R L C Lasham DFC and bar (1921 - 2017, 161609 Royal Air Force)and a photograph. After training in the United States and Canada he flew 53 operations as a pilot on 9 and 97 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Bob Lasham and catalogued by Nigel Huckins..
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: Okay, so this interview’s being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Annie Moody and the interviewee is Bob Lasham, and the interview’s taking place at Bob’s home in Wilmslow on today, the 16th of July 2015. So, thanks for agreeing, Bob, and if perhaps if we can start off and just tell me a little bit about early life, schooldays, et cetera?
BL: I’ll start at the beginning. I’m a Cockney; I came to be a Cockney because they say a Cockney’s someone who is, was born within the sound of Bow Bells, and I was born within two hundred yards of the Whittington Stone, where Dick is supposed to have heard the Bow Bells. Well, we had the Underground running underneath, tram running outside, I might not have done. But Laura and I [?] were on holiday to the Isle of Wight and the [unclear] Centre’s there, and I submitted their claim to them, they came to me [?] and they said ‘You’re trying to cheat, aren’t you?’ [slight laugh] So that was that. Elementary school, passed what they called a trade scholarship, so I went to a junior technical school in Kentish Town, travelling to and from on the Underground, penny return, yeah. [clock chimes]And – got my hearing aid in and it sounds so loud!
AM: And, as you can hear, it’s now eleven o’clock and the bells are chiming.
BL: Looking around for an apprenticeship, my parents said, ‘Look for a company which has a pension scheme.’ Went to three companies: Smiths, who used to make motorcars and instruments; a tool-making company in the middle of London, I would have liked to have gone there but they only had employed just over a hundred people, no pension scheme, so I went to British Thomson-Houston, very well-known company making heavy switchgear, electrical engineering. I realised later on I should have gone for mechanical engineering, but I wanted a reserved occupation. And, of course, the air raids started, and I realised ‘There’s a lot of work in this’. Whenever it was –
AM: [whispers] Sorry, carry on.
BL: Air raid one night, we all overlooked some playing fields, it was, like, a girls’ high school there, I used to look out of a window and watch them playing hockey, you know, dirty old, dirty old man, I was a young lad! [slight laugh] And the house directly opposite was bombed, we suffered some damage. If the bomb was at least a couple of seconds later, if it were coming from the east, it would probably hit our house. My parents were there, were in the Anderson shelter, I was asleep in the back bedroom, and I woke up covered with the ceiling. I think about that time I thought maybe it was safe to get out of London, and I think it was in about January or February ’41, signs were going up: people in reserved occupations can volunteer for flying duties in the Royal Air Force, the Fleet Air Arm, as part of [unclear]. So, couple of weeks later, I went down and volunteered, at somewhere near Euston it was, had an interview, very quick medical, and that was that. And three weeks later, had a letter from somebody or other saying would I go and report there again to register? I went in and saw the same people, said ‘Haven’t we seen you before?’ I said ‘Yes, you saw me about three weeks ago.’ ‘Oh, we’ve got all your details, you’d better go home.’ And I went home and waited, and finally called up in July, just after my twentieth birthday.
AM: So July 1940?
BL: 1941.
AM: ’41, sorry.
BL: ’41. By that time, well, production of air crew was like a Ford production line, it was running so smoothly. And [unclear] an Air Crew Reception Centre, AR – ACRC, known to everybody as Arsy Tarsy. Still to this days, you meet people, ‘Oh, were you at Arsy Tarsy?’ Yes. And er, there for, we were there for about ten days where we were kitted out, inoculations, FFI - Free From Infection. Look at the curly bits, make sure you’re not carrying livestock around. That continued as long I was an airman or an NCO, but once you were commissioned, they didn’t do it anymore; yeah, officers wouldn’t have to take their time with people [?], I suppose. While we were there – I can remember our first corporal – oh, we reported to Lord’s cricket ground, and there must have been an intake of, every week, about, I would say, three or four hundred, divided into flights of fifty, and the person in charge of our flight was Corporal Schubert. Whenever I hear a piece of grotty music, I always say ‘That sounds like Schubert’, and someone said ‘How’s that?’ I said ‘You’ve never met Corporal Schubert!’ But he was a good-hearted soul. A lot of the corporals had a grudge on their shoulder; they’d been in the Air Force for ten or fifteen years just being corporal, they knew we would be sergeants, you know, within no time at all. [Pause] Catering: we used to queue up in flights of fifty, eat in the London Zoo, and before we had a catering shed [?], knives and forks, as you walked out, you swirled about in a bucket of water and put them to dry; [stage whisper] I think the bucket of water was used for soup later on! But I seem to remember, we seemed to live mainly on kippers and sausages. Not many animals left in the zoo, but those that were, I’m sure, were fed a lot better than us. Still trying to think of the people I know; amongst the people I did know, a fellow called Harry Wilson, I’ll tell you about him later on. And we finally got our uniforms, and we used to have a little white flash in our caps to say you were a training air crew, and we all trooped off to, I think it was the Odeon in Leicester Square, to see “Target for Tonight”. I think we saw that and, when we came out, having made a big mistake. Anyway, next stop, Babbacombe Initial Training Wing: basic navigation, lots of keep-fit exercises, we had our own section on the beach, we could go swimming, were there for, I think it was about six weeks. Now, night train, next stop, Wilmslow [comical sotto voce] in the wild, woolly north, you know, and I can remember getting out of the station and walking through what is now Wilmslow Park – probably Wilmslow Park then– to the RAF camp, with carrying a kit bag very heavily loaded, and we were there for, again, for about couple of weeks. The second week there, we were all issued with civilian clothing, so we knew we were probably going to America. Two days later, they took them back again. I can - the only thing I can remember about it – the little belts children used to use with a sort of snake buckle on it, that was to keep the trousers up, yeah! Anyway, the Americans were not in the war, but they changed their laws so we could go into America in uniform – more of that later. And, once again, we travelled by night up to Gruddock /Grenock[?], all got on board the Louis Pasteur-it was a French cruise liner, French cruise liner. Some of us were sleeping on the floor, some on – stretching out on the tables with their heads up. I was a lucky one, I managed to get a hammock. We were there for about twenty-four hours, the boat was – in Gruddock [?], the boat was rocking up and down, and got up the next morning, there was a north westerly gale blowing, and a very small convoy, only about six, six vessels, and I was sick, practically everybody was sick, I should think. And then, that night, we left the convoy and sailed straight for Halifax. It was a fast boat like the Queen Mary, and we were there in eight, was it eight days, I think. Greeted at Halifax, a sort of [unclear] WVS, and they arranged to send telegrams to our folks in England saying that we’d arrived safely in Canada. Was a place called Malton in [pause] I’m not quite sure what the state was, except that it was a dry state, no alcohol for sale, and we were there not very long and, again, got on the train – four days. I couldn’t realise, no country could be that big, no! We had one stop in [pause] we stopped in Washington on the way down, that’s right, and we had some hours to spare, so some of us got hired a taxi, went to see the Washington Memorial and – Lincoln, sorry, the Lincoln Memorial –
AM: Lincoln Memorial.
BL: And then we arrived at Jacksonville in northern part of Florida. Again, we got off and we were taken out for dinner by the people of Jacksonville, I suppose, fifty of us by then. Was another night train and we arrived in Clewiston. I don’t know the geography of Clewi- Florida; at the bottom, there’s a very big lake-
AM: Yeah, I’m just working my way down.
BL: Lake Okeechobee, and we were just on the edge of Lake Okeechobee, in the middle of nowhere. Clewiston was a one-street town; they had a cinema, the Dixie Crystal – it’s funny how you remember these things – a bowling arrow – a bowling alley with a black boy to put the, ah, the skittles up afterwards, we did that. And they were surprised to see us in uniform because they had not been using it, and on the way down, someone enquired if we were an American football team ‘cause we were in uniform! [laughs] That’s beside the point. And we arrived overnight – seemed to have lost clothing overnight [?] – into breakfast, and there was this jug of light brown liquid to drink, it was cold tea! I never drink cold tea, but it was a great thirst-quencher. And we started flying on – it was called a Stearman, Stearman PT-17, and instructor was a chap called Tom Carpenter, and I was having trouble going solo – talk about luck! Half the course had gone solo and he hadn’t really told me what I was supposed to do, but on our desk – we had a big desk we used to use for swotting [?] – there was a book on flying training, and looked up landing. You – as you level out, you let the speed decay and finally your paces [?] down on three points; he didn’t tell me that I had to do that! Following day, I did three landings, he got out of the aeroplane and said ‘You can go solo’. [Unclear] he said ‘Look, Lasham, I was a bit bothered about seeing you doing that, sending you solo, but I’ve seen you recover from so many bad landings, I knew you’d recover from that.’ [laughs] And training proceeded. They had what they called a basic aeroplane then, a BT-13. My instructor was a Mr Dirigibus [?] - I think he had [unclear] – and he sent me solo very quickly; he didn’t like flying himself, I didn’t do much instruction with him. And then on to the Harvard afterwards, which was a nice aeroplane, and – remember the name of the – Charlie Miller was my instructor, he was a very nice fellow. Finally passed out, got my – we got our wings, I think it was in May.
AM: So how long had that taken?
BL: It took us about six months and quite a lot of the course failed. At that time, we were going out to America never, never having sat in an aeroplane at all, and usually about a dozen of the fifty would fail because they had no depth perception. And suddenly, someone in the UK realised we wasted a lot of money doing this, so they started getting people to start going solo in Tiger Moths over here before the sending them abroad, and the people in Canada, people in America, people in South Africa, people in Rhodesia, all over the world. And I finished me training, back to Canada, came back in a slower convoy, arrived in Liverpool. Liverpool was packed! [pause] I think that was the post, another charity appeal, I expect [sound of mail coming through the letterbox]. I’m sure you could have walked from Liverpool to Birkenhead just jumping from boat to boat. What a relief it was to get back in the UK! And down to Bournemouth, just two or three days in Bournemouth, we were sent on disembarkation leave, so I went home and saw my parents, saw my grandparents – they can bring you down – saw me granny, you know, sergeant’s, wing sergeant’s stripes, walked in, first thing she said: ‘Have you been up in an aeroplane by yourself yet?’ [laughs] Had no idea what was going on. Anyway, there’d be [unclear] an Advanced Flying Use, AFU, at Shorebury – you try saying ‘Shorebury, Shrewsbury, Shropshire’, which was the address, when you’ve had a couple of beers, you’re spitting over everybody! – and converted to Oxfords. And by that time, they’d ask you what you wanted to do, and, having been bombed in London, I thought ‘Oh, I’d like to be a night fighter pilot!’ So, came from there to RA – what was RAF Usworth, now, I think that’s the North East Air Museum now, just outside Sunderland. [Telephone rings] Forget it.
AM: You ignore the telephone, Bob?
BL: I, I do, yes; I can always pick it up later, see if there’s been a message. Err…Sunderland, near Sunderland. The, what they called the [unclear] side, the one hangar, was north of the Sunderland-Newcastle road. The southern part, which was the airfield, is now buried under the Nissan car factory.
AM: Right.
BL: Yes, yes. Anyway, they always had a medical when you arrived there, medical [?] inspection. I was in this chair, there was this beautiful, blue-eyed, young assistant, Joyce Farleigh [?] [pause, sounds of someone moving around the room]. Anyway, I saw her a couple of days later, we started going out together, and we were flying Avro Ansons, training radio observers. It was the airborne radar, preparation for going on to night fighters and, ah, [pause] were there for three or four months, so I got in quite a few more hours, which was useful later on, and then to Cranfield, for night fighter OTU, and enjoyed that, because we flew Blenheim 1’s, Blenheim 4’s, Blenheim 5’s, and then went on to Beaufighters. And taxied in one night, I put one beer on my Beaufighter whilst I was taxied [?] away onto the mud, put off the course [?] They were picky choosy, as my, as my grandchildren would say, and over half the course were failed. So I then went down to Brighton for what they called reselection, and [unclear] selection mark [?] ‘What would you like to go? Would you like to go to Air Transport Auxilliary, ATA?’ I said ‘No, I’d like to go to Bomber Command.’ So, finished up on Lancasters. Went to [pause] I – did I? No, I had to do another AFU on Oxfords, another few hours, and then finally to a place called Brigsley in Lincolnshire (that was really out in the sticks) and did my Lancaster conversion. One hour – two hours on Halifaxes and the rest on Lancasters, I’m glad I didn’t fly Halifaxes, I can’t remember the name of my instructor. Station commander there was a Group Captain Bonham-Carter. But basic radio receiver in the air force before that was called a TI-9 transmitter reception set, and he had a microphone in his battledress pocket ‘cause he was hard of hearing, and – I’m going aside a bit now – there was a museum at Winthorpe, just outside Newark; he founded it after the war.
AM: Oh, right.
BL: Back to where we were. He always made a point of [unclear] all the navigators, bomb aimers and pilots before they left. And I mentioned a chap called Harry, met up at ITW, he went to South Africa for his training, failed his pilot’s course, moved to old [?] Rhodesia and did his bomb aimer course. And we met up at Cottesmore when we were growing up; he said the first word he said to me was ‘Aren’t [?] you looking for a good pilot?’ and I said, you could [slight laugh] I said ‘Yes.’ He went in for an interview, Bonham-Carter, and got around that he’d failed his flying test, and Bonham-Carter said ‘What were you flying?’ He said ‘I was flying a Hawker Hart’ and that was the end of the conversation: Bonham-Carter deaf and a bloke who can’t fly a Hart. Switched off and Harry walked out! [laughs] What else happened there? Had a flight engineer - again, no flying experience. Waltzed through [?] his flight engineer’s course, airborne, and he was airsick every time he went up, so he had to be taken off-line. Now, a chap on the course with me was Mike Beetham [?].
AM: Oh, yes, yeah.
BL: Now, he’d gone off on a short course, I pinched his flight engineer, chap called Bill Gates [?], and he flew with me the rest of my operations. And then, from there to 9 Squadron, got there just before the Battle of Berlin. Not much happened there, oh, yeah, well, I suppose things did happen. Second, second dicky flight with a second pilot to fly it with – we didn’t, see, you just stood behind the chap who was flying – and it was the opening of the Berlin, Berlin and back, then, two or three nights later, going with my own crew, Berlin again, not, not a good start. And coming back – mind you, I was away [?] and new my first operation – Rear Gunner Eddie Clarke, now, he was an old man, he was in his thirties.
AM: Very old.
BL: Oh, ancient, yes, he’d been a driving instructor, and his oxygen had failed, and heating, obviously [?] had failed, and the net result was, he lost all the toes on his right foot, was taken off-line and we never communicated again, I think he pa – later on, when I was more experienced, I’d have come down to a lower altitude, but then they said ‘Stay with the stream’ and stay with the stream I did! [laughs] Great shame. I imagine, then, he probably had a job in the air force, he’d have kept his gunner’s badge, kept his sergeant’s stripes, possibly as a driving instructor. Incidentally, my wife did her driving at Liverpool – no, I’m sorry, Blackpool, yes, and passed her test there. [Pause] Anyway, 9 Squadron, again, luck. We used to do what was called bagging searches, so that I could look out my side and the flight engineer could look out his side, and we’d just started to roll and we were fired at, I don’t know, a [unclear], probably, so went into a corkscrew, and as we came up, I got another couple of bursts. If I’d have started that hanging search one second later, we’d have been shot out of the sky. My voice is going, isn’t it? [laughs] Anyway, we survived that. Again, rear gunner – from then on, we were getting any spare rear gunners – chap called Jack Swindlehurst, known as Jack Singleburst because he was a gunner, and a cannon shell hit the fire extinguisher behind his head and it peppered his shoulder with what was like gunshot wounds, but wasn’t seriously hurt, he was back flying again within a week. So, we carried on, and don’t think there were any other major, major instances there, and then Pathfinders.
AM: So this was 97 Squadron?
BL: 97 Squadron, yes, it was 9 Squadron before at Bardney. I wanted to go to Pathfinders, wireless operator said he’d be quite happy, so was my bomb aimer. Well, by that time, I’d collected another gunner, and a chap called Casson [?] (more on him later), and so off we went to Pathfinders. Now, a story goes around – I’m not sure this was my crew, which I suspect it was – three of them went to see Bennett and said ‘We don’t want to come to Pathfinders, we want to go back to your own squadron.’ He said ‘Well, I could post you back, but I’ll post every one of you to a different squadron.’ So they just decided to stick together. I made a promise, because people fell by the wayside, they’d be off flying, that I would carry on until everyone had finished his forty-five, which, that’s what took me up to fifty-three. So, off we went to Pathfinders. [Pause] Ah, luck again! I’ll come back to 9 Squadron: we were going to Leipzig, and I had a black navigator (my [unclear] chap was off with an appendix), Jamaican, the only black aircrew I ever met, very new, and they didn’t know anything about jet streams and so everyone arrived at the target early, apart from us, ‘cause he took us so far off track, we arrived there just as the raid was starting and came home, said there’ll be [unclear] there tonight, found out they’d lost sixty or seventy bombers that night. People were arriving early and circling, waiting for the Pathfinders to mark on time. They couldn’t mark early even if they arrived early, so again, luck came into it, yeah. Anyway, off to [pause] Warboys, that’s where we did three weeks’ Pathfinder training, including cross countries with an instructor, using the ground-marking equipment, H2S, and then to 97 Squadron at Bourn, and we were only at Bourn for three weeks, less than that, two weeks, didn’t operate from there, and we were posted back to 5 Group to do the marking for 5 Group, and Cochrane was CO, was Air Officer Commanding; it became known as Cochrane’s Private Air Force. Going back to Casson, my rear gunner. Just before leaving 9, I was allocated Casson, I think his crew had been killed, and he was unfortunate individual; he’d been a corporal physical training instructor, and I think he was rather keen to get the money of becoming a sergeant air gunner, but the only chap I’ve ever had had to have put on a charge. I felt he was – the crew used to go out to the aircraft every day, and the wireless operator was – wireless operator, rear gunner, [unclear] my upper gunner, and he never arrived on time and they had to clean his guns for him, so he was put on a charge that was modest and told not to do it again. But when we got to [pause] Warboys, doing our Pathfinder training, I was called to see Bennett himself, and my rear gunner had said he wasn’t going to – he was refusing to fly anymore, so Bennett said to me, ‘Well, when you get to squadron, don’t mention it to CO, because I think I’ve talked him out of it,’ but he hadn’t; when he got to Coningsby, he refused to fly, but I think he had more psychological problems. I gathered from my crew, amongst other things, he was incontinent, you know, he used to wet the bed, things like that, and he was taken off-line, what happened to him, I don’t know. Anyone who went – used to call it lack of moral fibre, anyone who had that disappeared quickly, because, in case it was catchy! Anyway, I was called in to see my CO, Wing Commander Carter, think it was, yes, and he told me what had happened, I said ‘Yes, I know.’ He said ‘Why didn’t you tell me?’ I said ‘Well, Bennett told me not to,’ and I said ‘AOC tells you not to, you don’t,’ he understood that. And then I picked up a fellow called Edward Coke – Edward Cope, known as Joe to everybody, he was one of the fellows [?] before – he’d been on Sterlings, and he’d done with the [unclear] on Sterlings, and we flew together for the rest of the war. Not much happened at 97; we were very badly shot up over Bordeaux on one occasion in daylight, finished up diverting to Manston. Crew said they found over eighty holes in the aeroplane, mid upper gunner suffered some facial injuries; I think the Perspex surrounding us was shattered, bit went into his face, but even in later life, on certain days, you could just see the scars ‘round here, but he was very lucky, you know, all the rest of us got away with, without any problem at all. [Pause] Was that during the –
AM: How many operations did you do with –
BL: Fifty-three.
AM: Fifty-three.
BL: That was Bordeaux. [Pause] Collateral damage, we were bombing Munich, and I always used to make a point of going into the briefing room to find out where the latest searchlight belts were, used to do this at 9 Squadron. There was three of us used to be there: myself, Pilot Officer Blow and a chap called Bill Reid, we were the only three who ever did this and we all three survived our operations. So, we were over Munich, and we were coned by searchlights, you could see people weaving all over the sky to avoid it. I knew that it was clear to the near [?] south-east: full power, downhill as fast as we could go, and suddenly there was the most almighty clatter [coughs] we didn’t know what it was, and had to put one engine out of action, came back on three. We’d been hit by the small incendiary bombs, and they hadn’t burned; they made some holes in the wings, they knocked an engine out, and we came back –
AM: Came back on three engines.
BL: On three engines, they flew wonderfully well on three engines, and then [pause] I’m getting towards the end of my tour then. [Pause] D-Day; I remember D-Day very well. Wing Commander Carter, this target-if you can call it a target-we were over the French coast for about ten minutes, that was all, and we also had a Norwegian crew on board, chap called Jespersen. Lost two crews that night: Carter the CO and Jespersen. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, there was a Ju 88 patrolling there, got both of them. Everyone else thought it was a bit of a doddle, but on the way back, Harry was calling the H2S, he was, he’d become [?] my bomb aimer, there’s a set operator. Actually, because crews haven’t as a good a H2S, they just kind of scanned the channels; of course, it was full of ships, when we got back, we found it was D-Day.
AM: So you didn’t know it was D-Day, going to be D-Day?
BL: No, we were not told, we were – obviously, it was very important, because we always used to test our engines before we went to mix the magnesium – mag – magnetos were working, but the first time, there was a problem with two of the plugs, and the whole squadron, the squadron commander stationed and engineer were there, but – ground crew again: when the engine skipper ran the engine, switched it off, they knew which plugs it was, and we were on our way within five minutes and caught them up, so that was Operation D-Day. Operated again D-Day that night, I was rather pleased about that, and I think it went all fairly smoothly from there. I was off sick for a time, can’t remember what it was, and going back to a chap, Bill Reid, who’d driven across country, I said ‘Bill, do you think you could go up to Millfield, RAF Millfield?” That was where Joyce was stationed as an MT driver. I should say – go back again, when we – Joyce and I got engaged in 1941, and by nineteen-forty [pause] nineteen-forty – 1942, 1942, and then, when I went to Bomber Command, we decided to put it on hold – I mean, chances of surviving – so it was on hold. And we could [?] going up to Millfield, ‘Could you fly me up to Millfield?’ He said, ‘We could do that,’ he got the details there, he said ‘Well, I can get it, get it in, I think I can get it out’ – it was the middle of the, middle of the Cotswolds – not the Cotswolds, the, ah –
AM: Chilterns?
BL: No, meant up on Northumberland, the – ah, the Cotswolds, that’ll do, is it near Northumberland? No, the Cotswolds are lower.
AM: No, the –
BL: It’s the, ah [pause]
AM: Can’t remember.
BL: Should do it.
AM: It’s up above the Pennine Way.
BL: Oh, yes!
AM: It’s the – anyway, near Northumberland.
BL: And we arrived there. It was a fighter leaders’ school and they were training fighter leaders, and there was this great big aeroplane came in, and they were looking around at the great big bomb bay, and, sheer luck, Joyce was going on leave, so I waited for her. Went down to Newcastle, I spent the night in the YMCA, met her next day, went back to see her parents, and got [unclear] re-engaged. I only had two more to do, did the two ops, and then I finished. From the day going up to Millfield to see her to getting married, about three weeks went by. People now, saving up to get married, five thousand pounds, ten thousand. It cost me two pounds, three shillings and sixpence. And way I remember that, we had to – I went up with Joyce’s mother to arrange the wedding, saw the vicar, and he says, ‘That will be two pounds, three shillings and sixpence’, and two-three-six was also the phone box number of RAF Millfield where I used to talk to Joyce occasionally, and we spent the night in the same house; I slept with her father and Joyce slept with her mother.
AM: [laughs] This is the night before the wedding?
BL: The night before the wedding. We didn’t have a best man, but there was a, a relative who had a shoe shop, he was called in as best man; Joyce had an aunt, Aunt [pause] oh, I’ve forgotten her name now, her husband was in the air force but he was motor transport driver, he was a North hatter [?], she was Matron of Noffon [?], Matron of, ah, Honour. So, we walked down to the church, no taxis available – well, it was only just down the road, RAF Wooler – is it Wooler, in – what are those hills called, what would they be?
AM: Cheviots, it’s not the Cheviots?
BL: It is the Cheviots.
AM: Cheviots.
BL: Cheviots, of course, those are the big ones called the Cheviots.
AM: We got there between us!
BL: Yes! [slight laugh] And we walked back again and – where did we stay? It was an old lady we stayed with: something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue, and she’d had Joyce a piece of lace done, and she wanted it back before we left, and we had our breakfast, caught the bus to Morpeth, stopped off and had tea, caught another bus to Newcastle, went to the cinema, the night train down to London packed like sardines. London – we, well, we were going to have our honeymoon in Exeter, the hotels were full, but Joyce’s parents knew someone who had a guest house down there, so booked us in there. So we had some – so I went up to see my mother, and she had met Joyce, and then down to Paddington Station, finally arrived in Torquay and met by somebody who took us to the house, absolutely shattered. Went to bed, we both fell fast asleep. [laughs] Anyway, I still remember the next day, I said to Joyce, ‘Well, what do you want to do now?’ She said ‘I’d like to buy a shopping basket, I won’t feel properly married ‘til I’ve got a shopping basket,’ and that was it, our honeymoon! Then back to the squadron, and they discovered I had a large spleen, so they were doing all sorts of investigations, I was at Coningsby for quite a long time; I thought I was on squadron strength and evidently I wasn’t, I was on station strength, so I finished [?] in October but I didn’t leave the squadron until beginning of January. They took me into Rawsby [?] Hospital. It had been what they used to call lunatic asylums, it was, yes, no privacy, all the doors opened both ways and the WCs, it was like the doors going into a Western saloon, know, they open both ways, so you – anyway, I had a, I still had a large spleen, so they gave me a temperate climate only better, ah, better category, which was just as well because it was about time they were thinking of going out to Japan and you would have had to go through tropical climates. Anyway, I was at Coningsby just doing nothing, you know, and eventually – oh, the commanding officer was a chap called Evans Evans, Tiny Evans, a Jimmy Edwards character - I’m going back, I’m going into reverse now. He decided he wanted to do some operations, so they said he could take my crew, and they did a couple of cross countries with him, so the first time, he put the aeroplane down and bounced over the [unclear] onto the aeroplane; the other time, he visited his brother, almost a twin, who was RAF commanding an American station, and he, he went down there with the crew and had a very liquid lunch, so he came back by taxi and the RAF took me down by transport to pick them up, and I met my crew outside the aeroplane, and the Americans were looking up at our bomb bay, their bomb bay was not as big as a sofa there, they could carry four thousand pounds, of course, we could carry eighteen thousand pounds, and to thrill them back [?]. One or two of them, they’d spent the night there, I think, had got these American woolly sheepskin hats on, one or two were smoking American cigars. Incidentally, people say that everybody smokes here, my crew didn’t smoke, I didn’t smoke.
AM: You didn’t smoke either?
BL: No, nope. And that was about the – oh [pause] Evans Evans, I got to know him quite well, very, very pleasant chap, and he wanted to sponsor me to go to Cranwell, he knew my background in engineering, to do an engineering course, and I said no, I wanted to carry on flying, so there was this vacancy going, Fighter [Unclear] Flight, flying Hurricanes. That was really good fun! Our CO was Les Munro –
AM: Oh, yes.
BL: Yes, he was New Zealander, wonderful character, and I remember when we were there, one night, we had a few drinks at the bar, and we knew we were operating, so we wouldn’t – the squadron was operating, we wouldn’t be working the next day, and I said ‘Would you mind if I took a Hurricane up to Millfield, to see my wife?’ and he said ‘Not at all.’ So, off, went off the next day, he’d forgotten: ‘Where have you been?’ ‘I’ve been to Millfield, you said I could go there!’ [disgruntled mutter-nonverbal]. One funny incident – well, funny for people who were watching it - at Metheringham was a FIDO station, you know, where they used to burn petrol and [pause] if you could imagine a triangle about so big with a metal pipe across, they used to pump petrol into it and that would clear the fog. I was waiting to take off in my little Hurricane, some other man [?] had a Spitfire: ‘Proceed to the end of the runway and use the taxiway.’ He started to turn off. ‘Proceed to the end of the runway and use the taxiway!’ Too late: there was the Spitfire standing on its tails [?]. Poor fellow, he spent the rest of his life trying to get, trying to explain why he did this, and everyone has heard that ‘cause he couldn’t say he couldn’t have heard the instruction. And then, about that time, maybe a bit earlier, an Air Ministry Order came out, an AMO: people who’d completed two operational tours and two non-operational tours could apply for secondment to BOAC or go to the Empire Test Pilots.
AM: So this is 1945.
BL: I’m in 1945 now, yes.
AM: Yeah.
BL: So, I applied for BOAC and got it and that was it, yeah. And I enjoyed it, I [pause] we did our training on Lanc – on Lancasters because we were going to fly Lancastrians, never came to anything-I had a Lancastrian on my pilot’s licence-and then we went down to Whitchurch, was a little aerodrome, it was the airport for Bristol in those days before they moved, and converted to Dakotas, and there was a couple of flights out as a second pilot to Cairo and back again and then they were, they were on a – just, what a lot of [unclear] – let’s say, anyway, I went to Northolt, where BEA – it was on land [?] BOAC, which was going to become-
AM: So they were just setting BOAC up at the time?
BL: Yes, but I was still in the air force on secondment and offered a contract with BOAC, and then BEA was formed, so I applied to fly for BEA and they offered me a contract, and they said, ‘You will never be worse off if you come to us instead of going to BOAC,’ flying out of Northolt. It was, it wasn’t no break going back to civvy life, it was like being on a squadron again, I knew half the people there, all second-tour people, and eventually, I got my command – Captain – and six hundred pounds a year. Six hundred pounds a year in 1946 was a lot of money; I remember when I was an apprentice, I was looking forward to the day when I’d be a rich man and earning five pounds a week! Six hundred pounds a year makes –
AM: In 1946!
BL: And, and then went into work one day and told I was going to Jersey. No choice in the matter, British Airways had nationalised Channel Island Airways and they wanted three Dakota crews out there, so myself, chap called Bill Hen, an ex-Battle of Britain pilot, and I can’t remember the third went out there with the three first officers, flying Dakotas and then flying de Havilland Rapid – de Havilland Rapide: [unclear] biplane, made of wood.
AM: Where were you flying to and who were the passengers? Were –
BL: Oh, this was civilians.
AM: So it’s a commercial airline by this time?
BL: Oh yeah, yeah, and became BEA, you see.
AM: But still on Dakotas, which had been flying in the war.
BL: Yes. Initially, BOAC would be carrying fifteen passengers and BEA were flying with eighteen passengers, and eventually they were modified, took the radio officer away, air officer away, and they called them Pioneers. We had thirty-two passengers, really squeezing them in in a Dakota.
AM: Thirty-two! So what was it like inside, then, for the passengers?
BL: Packed solid, yeah! The seats were about so wide –
AM: Bit like now, then, Ryanair.
BL: Yes, and flying Rapides, that was a – initially a seven-seater with a radio officer, and then a, and an eight-seater when you got rid of the radio officers. I must be one of the few people still living who flew Rapides into Croydon and into Gatwick, which was an, ah, a grass airfield.
AM: Oh, right! [laughs]
BL: A lot of grass airfields around at that time; Madrid, masses of runway, now, that used to be a grass airfield. And I carried on flying Dakotas in Jersey and –
AM: Did your - had your wife come over to live in Jersey?
BL: Oh, we’d all moved to Jersey.
AM: Okay.
BL: No NHS there; BEA paid my medical fees, I had to pay for Joyce and my son, quite expensive, ‘specially when you – antibiotics were a frightful price. We moved – we never bought anywhere in Jersey, we moved around in rented accommodation, and I quite enjoyed it there: come off a day’s flying, you know, and Joyce would meet me, have a swim before going home, and see so much more, know, you could swim from April through to September. I remember once, we come over on leave and up and gone to Druridge Bay in Northumberland, lovely summer’s day, I said ‘I’m gonna have a swim.’ I went off, I came back: ‘I thought you were gonna have a swim?’ I said ‘Yes, I got enough up to here, that was it!’
AM: So not cold up in Jersey?
BL: Well, yes. So, I think, in around Jersey, the tide doesn’t move in and out, it stays in the Gulf of Saint Malo, slowly, slowly warms up. My only accident occurred there; I stood a Rapide on its nose. No passengers on board, I put the brakes on too hard, it landed on its nose, bent propellers, and needless to say, there was a court of enquiry. But BEA was divided into two divisions then: British and Continental, and chief pilot of the British division was an old group captain I’d known in the air force, it was the old pals’ network.
AM: Old boys’ club.
BL: Yeah, he said ‘You can do’ – I spent the whole month doing [unclear], it was twelve flights a day, fifteen and twenty minutes, and nobody liked them because, it doesn’t sound very much, but twelve take-offs and landings, it was very tiring. [Pause] He was the chap – no, no, I was thinking of somebody else, at Northolt. There was one day, it had been snowing – this was nothing to do with me – and there was a Dakota took off and covered with snow and they’d had to clear the wings, and landed on top of a school and – sorry, landed on top of a house, just missed a school, and nobody was hurt, there was nobody in the house, all the crew got out. Needless to say, for the rest of his life, he was known as Rooftop Johnson, yeah, and he rose to great height and became a flight manager eventually. Viscounts, enjoyed flying those, and I – leaving Jersey, where did I want to go to? Well, my parents were living in London; Joyce’s mother, she was already by then in [unclear], so I chose Manchester, in the middle of nowhere, and –
AM: And that was Ringway Airport?
BL: Ringway Airport, yes, yes, little runways then, yes, passenger accommodation was in one of the hangars, and Smallman’s – was it Smallman’s – had the, had the restaurant there, the old RAF control tower, it was all very friendly. The crew hut was made of wood, you know.
AM: What year would – what year would that have been on now? Fifty -
BL: That would be 1953, yeah. And they booked me in at the Deanwater, Deanwater, just, just a room with a washbasin, no mod cons in those days, party on nearly every night, so getting to sleep was a bit difficult, and I was flying the next day, said to Joyce, ‘Go out and look for a house.’ Well, Joyce almost got lost, she picked me up, but we saw an advert, houses being built just the other side of Wilmslow, went to see one, saw the plot we liked and booked the house and [pause] by that time, I’d, was living in Baton [?] Road, Manchester, sharing a room with a wireless operator, he moved out and Joyce moved in with me, and we got the extra room, Michael was away at school, and we lived there ‘til we moved into the house, I quite enjoyed that. And then charge [?] came to convert to Tridents, which I did, yeah, lovely aeroplane, the Trident, and –
AM: How big is that, then? How big is the Trident?
BL: It was initially a ninety-seater with the –
AM: Ninety?
BL: Ninety.
AM: So much bigger.
BL: Much bigger, but the Viscount was about seventy or eighty, I think, I had the ninety-seater, and then there was the Trident 2 and the Trident 3, and the Trident 3 was – I think they’d gone up to about a hundred seats by then. They didn’t – it wasn’t really a commercial – they built a lot of them, though there’re many variants, I don’t think anybody made any money out of them, and [pause] back to Viscounts. Landing at Geneva, and, whilst I was with [unclear], and I was doing what we call a flapless landing ‘cause the [unclear] had been damaged, and landed, and as the nose wheel touched the runway, the whole back bit of the strut broke off, so we started to turn to the left and clear the runway, and there was a lot of smoke coming with the hot hydraulic oil. Passengers were evacuated, they didn’t use the chute, they got them out on the steps, and the fire was put out immediately. I’ve still got the headlines, was it ‘Bomber hero lands blazing aircraft [slight laugh] at Geneva’? And the reporters came ‘round to see Joyce, she knew nothing about it; well, she’d just had an airport – phone call from the airport saying ‘Bob, your husband, will be late coming home.’ The way they exaggerate these things!
AM: ‘Bomber Command hero’!
BL: Yeah, Bomber Command, oh, yes.
AM: Did they have air hostesses on the planes at this point? Did they have air hostesses and things like that on the planes at this point?
BL: No – oh yes, they did!
AM: Yeah.
BL: Yes, in Jersey, they were called flight clerks because they did all the paperwork as well.
AM: Okay.
BL: And all they did was hand out sick bags and barley, barley sugars, yes. [Pause] I’m trying to think of the funny incidents. When I was First Officer at Northolt, and I’d been flying – it was an unfurnished Dakota, the seats were there but nothing on the floor, and those days, the pilot had to brief the passengers, and chap called Panda Watson, he had a great big moustache, he was the skipper, and he went up to them all and said, ‘Ladies and gentlemen,’ and at that time, he slipped and fell on his –
AM: Oh, no!
BL: So, from then on, I – he kind of got me to do it. I remember doing briefing one day, just telling them where the escape exits were, where the life jackets were, I had one passenger say, ‘If I’d known it was so dangerous, I wouldn’t have, wouldn’t have flown!’ My parents used to come and see me in Jersey, but they wouldn’t fly; I would pay for their tickets, no, no, they came by boat, but Joyce’s mother came over several times and she was quite happy to fly. And, living in Jersey, we had a dear old neighbour, Mrs Brett, one of the old school, she lived next door, she was a widower for the second time, and she had some friends, and she used to go out, and going down to see her friends: hat on, folded umbrella or walking stick, upright, and she’d come back, hat on one side and a bit shaky on the stick. She liked – was it tonic red wine? I’ve forgotten what it was.
AM: Not, erm –
BL: It was – it wasn’t Sanatogen, it’s [pause] anyway, she was rather fond of it, and she was a dear old lady, she would knock on the door and say, ‘Are you at home?’ And we invited her in one day, we’d just got television in Jersey, and the Queen’s, Queen’s confrontation –
AM: Coronation, 1953.
BL: Queen’s coronation, not confrontation, she has many of those with her husband, I think! And she enjoyed that, and she used to talk about a wine she’d had in Italy called [stage whisper] Asti Spumante, a sparkling, sparkling, sweet, Italian wine, so we got a bottle of it and we had some sandwiches and she thoroughly enjoyed it. And when we moved from that house to another one, she gave Joyce a little silver napkin ring, and outside, this replica of sugar cane; her first husband was in trade, he was in sugar, yeah, and they lived in the Bahamas for many years, no children, but her second husband was a barrister, Mr Reginald Brett, so she always called herself Mrs Reginald Brett, never found out what her Christian name was, yeah. She died shortly before we left Jersey. Anyway, I wanted to get onto another type of aeroplane and we decided, like I tell you [?] to move to Manchester; people say ‘Why did you move?’ so I said ‘Well, we kept falling off the edge, so it was time to go.’ And that was almost the end, now: up to Manchester, converted to Tridents, and then on New Year’s Eve nineteen [pause] 1968, it must have been, Joyce had a – we were going out to a party, Joyce had a massive heart attack, went to Macclesfield. No – there was nothing there for heart attacks then, she was in a side room just receiving normal medical treatment, no, no resus units, no – what do they call them now?
AM: The – ah, the heart -
BL: Yes. Anyway, she survived, and that time, Manchester was converting to the Bac 1-11, the twin engine jet, and they were going to do a lot of, a lot of German internal flights, so I was going to be away for five or six days, or probably more than that, a month, five or six day tours in Germany, didn’t want to do that, so I stayed with the Trident and that did – I finished up going down to Heathrow for my last four years. [Pause] Nice little house in Windsor, it was a terraced house –
AM: In Windsor?
BL: In Windsor.
AM: Oh, very nice – oh well, so, sorry [?]
BL: Yes, it was, was nice, yes, we enjoyed it, Joy – but [unclear] Joyce never, apart from my working colleagues, she never got to know anybody there, they don’t speak to you there, we were living in Datchet initially, until we found somewhere to live. In Datchet, we were living in a 17th Century cottage, lovely old cottage, and it was run by two old dears next door, two ex-WAF who I think were both living together, if you know what I mean, yeah.
AM: I do.
BL: And then we got our own, own property, we saw a house in Datchet but decided against it; occasionally, the river would [?] slowly come into Datchet, then go out again, and we didn’t want a house that was going to be flooded.
AM: No.
BL: Whole thing, insurance premium would be very high, stayed in Windsor until I retired.
AM: So you flew all your working life?
BL: All my working life, yes, I retired in nineteen – retired from BEA in nineteen [pause] 1973, and moved back here, living in a very, very big house at Disley, almost a mansion, as someone called it, we were in, I think, four bedrooms, and, over the course of the year, made me bother [?] that they were used four, five times, so we cut our losses and moved here.
AM: And moved here. And it’s lovely, isn’t it?
BL: And got the Golden Wing [?], and then in nineteen-seventy – ’79 – through the old boy network, there was a job going, flying Viscounts up at Teesside, so I thought –
AM: So, after you’d retired –
BL: After I’d retired, the old boy network again, I knew the chap – it was a strange organisation, it was called Airbridge Carriers, so I was flying for Airbridge Carriers, being paid by Fields Aviation, and flying BenAir Viscounts, it was quite a mix-up. And so, we were flying out of Teesside, took the caravan up there, and that was it, we were quite enjoying that, ‘cause the people were friendly, Joyce wasn’t far from her mother, and then they decided we would have to go to Bristol. So, I decided I’d – I could have moved to Bristol, I couldn’t maintain my base where I was initially [?] at at Teesside, so I went down to Bristol, I was always accommodated in a hotel there, used to get [unclear] allowance, used to get so much an hour for being away from home, and flying the Viscount down to Bristol. Finally gave it all up and retired.
AM: And that’s it, you retired.
BL: I finally retired in nineteen – 1981, I finished flying, same year my father died, 1981, and that was it, end of flying career.
AM: Yeah. Blimey. The one thing I didn’t ask, go whizzing right back to the war years, was you’ve got the DFC?
BL: DFC and bar.
AM: And bar?
BL: Yes.
AM: So what did you get the DFC for?
BL: It was just end of, end of, end of tour.
AM: Okay, so doing a full tour.
BL: And the bar was end of second tour.
AM: And the bar was the second tour. Right.
BL: Yeah.
AM: Crikey.
BL: Yeah.
AM: There we are. I’m going to switch off now.
BL: Right, switch off now.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bob Lasham
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-16
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALashamB150716
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:57:50 audio recording
Contributor
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Richard Bracknall
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Bob Lasham began an electrical engineering apprenticeship with British Thomson-Houston before volunteering for the RAF in 1941, aged 20. He trained at Babbacombe and Wilmslow before continuing to Clewiston, Florida, to complete his training as a pilot. On return to the United Kingdom, he underwent further training before being transferred to Bomber Command where he converted to flying Lancasters. He joined 9 Squadron at RAF Bardney and participated in operations to Berlin and Leipzig. His aircraft was heavily attacked and his rear gunner lost the toes on one foot because of oxygen and heating problems. He transferred to 97 Squadron Pathfinders; his aircraft was badly damaged over Bordeaux, returning from an operation to Munich. He flew on D-Day and later joined a Bomber Defence Training Flight. After two tours, he became a civil pilot and flew with BOAC and BEA. He also relates his engagement and marriage; the role of luck in his survival; and the support of a veterans’ network after the war.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
Florida--Lake Okeechobee
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Munich
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
Florida
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1942
1944
5 BFTS
5 Group
9 Squadron
97 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
African heritage
aircrew
Beaufighter
Blenheim
bomb struck
bombing
British Flying Training School Program
C-47
Distinguished Flying Cross
Flying Training School
Harvard
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
love and romance
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
pilot
RAF Bardney
RAF Cranfield
recruitment
searchlight
Stearman
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/613/8882/PMotterheadN1501.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/613/8882/PMottersheadN1504.1.jpg
b581a06e8e60fa9f61b82d95c8c5526d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/613/8882/AMotterheadN150719.2.mp3
ee7de033ffb55e3132da3953f9123f73
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mottershead, Bluey
Nevil Mottershead
N Mottershead
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mottershead, N
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Squadron Leader 'Bluey' Mottershead DFC (b. 1922, Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He flew operations as a pilot with 158 Squadron.
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Date
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2015-07-19
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Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AM: Ok. So this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is me, Annie Moody and the interviewee is Bluey Mottershead. And the interview is taking place at Mr Mottershead’s home in Brailsford on the 19th of July 2015. So, off you go. Tell me a little bit about your, your childhood.
NM: Yes.
AM: And leading up to why you decided to join the RAF, Bluey?
NM: Well, I was born on a farm in Shropshire. I was the sixth child of my parents but they had lost two previous to me arriving on the scene and therefore, when I arrived I was treated something special. And that special has been with me all my life. And my best friend from my youth, in my youth, was also, had joined the Royal Air Force for aircrew duties and he was in a place called Honington. On a live station in Suffolk. And while they were taking a NAAFI break a bomber came over, dropped a bomb, hit the NAAFI and killed four of them. And then thereafter I was stood in the churchyard of my village while they were burying him. There went the past and so —
AM: What age would you be then Bluey?
NM: Eighteen.
AM: You were eighteen.
NM: And so, when it came around to the January after Christmas I thought I have got to go and revenge for my friend. And so, on the 18th — on the 8th of January 1942 I went to Shrewsbury and signed up for aircrew duties and I became nineteen at the end of that particular week. And so I was sent home on what they called deferred service following the medicals that I had at Shrewsbury and going to Cardington for forty eight hours to have the medicals there. And when I returned I received this letter from the Air Ministry, shall we say, saying, ‘You are now going home on deferred service and we will call you when we’re ready.’ Well, I thought that date would never come but anyway, eventually I received information from them which said report to Lord’s Cricket Ground on the 7th July 1941. No. That would be wrong. No. 1941 it was.
AM: ‘41.
NM: And there was hundreds of us there. All from over the country. The same men who had been on deferred service and they were all called together to the, to Lords Cricket Ground. And then were allocated sleeping accommodation in St Johns Wood. In a lovely place called Viceroy Court. And we were lying on palliases on the floor and there was no furniture but quite obviously the flats would be luxury flats. And having done that they decided right we can’t keep all these men here. It would be rather dangerous. There were thousands of us in a very small area and if the Germans had got to know, then bombed the area they’d have killed thousands of us. And they decided to send parties of us out and I was sent to Scampton. Just the job. And of course Scampton was a live station and we were all very interested to watch these Hampdens and things taking off. The Hampdens I didn’t care two hoots for. In fact, I did go to one of the satellites of Scampton and had a ride in one which I didn’t think was fit for purpose. And so when that was over came back to St Johns Wood which was called ACRC.
AM: What did you actually do at Scampton? Did you just —
NM: Oh just normal.
AM: Square bashing.
NM: Square bashing and all sort of things connected with the air [pause] I’m sorry. My –
AM: Oh don’t worry.
NM: Identification of aircraft and all that sort of thing, you see.
AM: Right.
NM: But anyway we were shipped back, back to ACRC at St John’s Wood and from there I was sent to Newquay in Cornwall for my ITW. Now, having completed all that we then were sent to a little airfield by High Wycombe called Booker and there we were introduced to the Tiger Moth. And I had a very senior flight lieutenant, old flight lieutenant as my teacher sort of thing. And he and I got on very well and in the end I discovered afterwards that having been sent on for the next stage I’d never gone solo in this Tiger Moth. I’d flown it time enough again with him in there. So, then the time came they said, ‘Right. Off you go home. Take a bit of leave at Christmas and report to —' a place at Manchester. A park. Something.
AM: Heaton. Heaton Park.
NM: Heaton Park. Heaton Park. There once again there was thousands of us and we were billeted out and I was billeted with a family — together with a friend of mine, Ron Champion and we were there. And funny things happened which don’t, have nothing to do with my life’s —
AM: Oh no. Tell us. Tell us.
NM: We [pause] there was a small area within the park itself was RAF property. And outside that, outside that we were ourselves again and of course we were staying with these people. Well, one young lad was seen walking around outside the RAF area after midnight. And so of course they called him in and said, ‘What’s the problem?’ He said, ‘Well, my landlady keeps getting in bed with me.’ And [laughs] do you know there must, must have been fifty or so had been there before and they never said a word and he had to go and let the cat out of the bag. After completing all that of course it was decided because we had not got the facilities in this country to train two thousand pilots and so it was decided to send us overseas and I was very fortunate in as much as in the January 1942 we sailed out of Liverpool for Halifax, Nova Scotia. And I do not recommend being in a smaller boat crossing the Atlantic at that time of the year. There was a little, a Polish destroyer with us and he kept disappearing out of sight and coming up the other side. How the hell they kept stuff in their whatever they call them. Where they keep — do all the food for them. I can’t remember.
AM: The galley.
NM: The galley. And anyway one or two of them the first morning out — the boat we were [pause] I think it was lunchtime. No. It had got to be morning and the boat did this. Twice.
AM: Rocking about in the sea.
NM: And everything on the table went whoosh in to a ruck on the floor. Well half of them looked at it and since they were little bit of somehow or other being affected by being at sea half of them went [laughs] went missing the next, the next day and boy could I eat, and I ate everything that came in front of me.
AM: You were not seasick then.
NM: No. No. It didn’t trouble me one little bit and then having landed we got on the train and went to Moncton. The PDSI. Personnel department of the –whatever it is. I can’t remember. And there we stayed. And one of the lads on the boat —I said, I said to him, ‘Shall we go to St George’s Church tonight? To the service.’ And he said, ‘Yes.’ So we went to the service and there we made friends with a family and I’ve been in touch with that family right after the war and they came and stayed with me. How wonderful things are. And then it was decided then we were ready and we were going to be shipped down to the United States. So, we got on a train and we were on that train for two days and three nights. It stopped at Toronto and I managed to get somebody on the train to contact my cousin in Toronto and he was, he came to the train to see me. Well I didn’t know him because he was in uniform and the last time I’d seen him he was in civvies. And he didn’t know me because I was in uniform. But nevertheless it went ok and on we went down into, into Georgia. Turner Field, Georgia. After a short time there they divided us up and I was sent in to, in to Lakeland in Florida.
AM: Yeah. We’re ok.
NM: Yeah. Lakeland in Florida.
AM: Actually. [pause] Ok. I think we’re ok.
NM: And then we were flying Stearmans and having completed what was necessary we were then shipped to Macon in Georgia to fly in the second stage. They called it Advanced Flying School. And we were flying multi —whatever the plane was called. I ought to have my logbook here. That would have helped a great deal. But nevertheless we were flying. And I was very lucky that the instructor that I got was, had been a pupil himself in class 42a and I was in class 42i. We had reached that stage there were so many classes. And we did all the necessary and then we were passed on to Valdosta which was Advanced Flying School. And there we were flying twin engines. Three types of twin engine as well as the A6 which we called [pause] we called the Harvard. And my instructor was an American lieutenant and so he said, ‘Come on Mottershead. We’re going in the Harvard today.’ So off we go and get in this Harvard. And he said, ‘Right. Do the checks.’ So, I did the check. ‘Ok. Taxi around and take off.’ Everything alright, but my right wing was down, and my left wing was up there and I couldn’t get the damned thing right. I thought what have I not done? And I realised the lock that was in the joystick — I hadn’t pulled it out [laughs] so then the wing came up and everything was nice. He said, ‘I shouldn’t do that again if I was you. Watch it in future.’ [laughs] And got back and landed and he said, ‘Right. Off you go and fly it yourself.’ So I did do. And it was a beautiful aircraft to fly. It touched down on all three wheels. No trouble at all. So, having completed there we then on the, in the October, came up for our papers of authority as being a pilot under the United States Army Air Force and I’ve got my silver type wings. The American wings. Then it was a case of I went before a board of four senior American officers and they looked at all my paperwork and said, ‘Would you like to stay behind and teach future classes of UK,’ and because of something that had happened while I was at Macon, Georgia I had to say, ‘I’m very sorry, but I can’t.’ I’ll tell you that separately. And so, on the train back to Macon —back to Moncton in New Brunswick of course I’d already made contact with the family, so I re-made the contact with this family and got on so wonderfully well but the main thing about being here in Britain and being over there was the fact that we were limited by ration books to XYZ whereas they —it was there for you to buy and eat etcetera. Marvellous. And of course, I could eat. There’s no argument about it. So, after a while they said, ‘Right,’ — get your knapsack, not your knapsack, the bag with all your bits and pieces in. ‘There’s a boat in for you.’ So, right, we got on the train, landed in Halifax and walked off on to the quay. You can say that again. A boat. It was the original Queen Elizabeth. Oh dear. And we got on board that feeling millionaires. But there was that many on from different countries and different regiments and all the rest of it. All coming across with one purpose in mind and that was to kill Nazism. And so, we crossed the Atlantic unescorted. Our liner was doing twenty six knots during the day and through the night she was doing thirty two ‘cause that gave it that little bit extra to get out where the Germans might well have figured out where we might be on such and such a time and so, one morning we woke up and we were in the Clyde.
AM: Just like that.
NM: Just like that. We’d gone through the boom and we were in the Clyde. So we had to then gather our things together and come down stairs after stairs ‘til we came to water level. And then we got on tugs which took us over to dry land and there was a train waiting for us to take us to [pause] well you’re asking me now [pause] well-known place up in Yorkshire anyway. And of course they said, ‘Right. Well you’re here now. Right. Take a bit of leave. You’ve been away three —six months.. Go and see your parents,’ etcetera which I did do and then I got notice, right —'Report to Little Rissington in Gloucestershire.’ And that’s where I was flying Oxfords. I had a little student tuition on the Oxford and then the instructor said, ‘Right. Mottershead go and get yourself some practice.’ Now –
AM: So how big was an Oxford? What?
NM: Oxford aircraft.
AM: Yeah. How big? How big was that?
NM: Twin engine.
AM: Right. Ok.
NM: The American when they open the throttles get hold of the throttles get hold of them and pull them back. We do this. Get behind the throttles and press them forward. So I was more or less getting the American system out of, out of use and back in. So he said, ‘Right Mottershead. Take that one and go and get a bit of flying yourself.’ So me — I flew at about two ninety. Something like that. And flew until I picked up the River Severn and I flew up the River Severn until I got to within a mile to where I lived and I flew around and around and around. And after a while I thought, right, well I’d better get back. In the meantime a front had moved in and I was above cloud. And I was flying down towards back in the general direction of Little Rissington and I did not know where I was. And I’ve got, I came up with —I shall either A) I can jump out with my parachute and let my aircraft go and crash in to something. Or B) I can go down through and hit something that I wouldn’t wish to hit like a church tower or something like that. And as I was pondering over it I looked on my port beam and there was an aircraft coming towards me and he passed in front of me and I said to myself, ‘If you know where you’re going I’m going with you.’ And I followed him and he, it was a, it was a radar station where —not radar. Signals and all the rest of it. At a place called Madeley near Hereford. And he landed and I landed after him. And so they just picked up the phone and rang Little Rissington, ‘One of your boys has touched down here.’ So he came over and I took off and followed him home. Went the day well. Having done all that I was then posted to Harwell where we had clapped out Wellingtons who’d done all the necessary they wanted to or at least they were wanted for and were in a clapped-out situation. And as we stood there we crewed up. I did not choose anybody. I just stood there.
AM: I was going to ask you about crewing up. How that went.
NM: I stood there, and they came and joined me. It was as easy as that.
AM: Yeah.
NM: Right.
AM: Together or in ones and twos?
NM: Well, I don’t whether they’d been talking with one lot over there and they looked at me and thought well I like the look of him and so they came over and joined me. So, I’d got everything except the flight engineer and the second gunner at that stage. Well, I didn’t stay at Harwell but I went to one of their satellites. A place we called Hampstead Norreys near Newbury and we were flying out of there. Well, we had been warned, ‘Don’t over shoot.’ Come in and land properly because there was a big pit, gravel pit at the end of the runway and people had gone in. Oh dear. The trouble. Anyway, we flew that and did all the necessaries and then having finished they said, ‘Right off you go home and get some leave and report to a place called Riccall,’ near –
AM: York.
NM: Yes. Selby. There we go, there we were introduced to the Halifax. Four engine bombers.
AM: So, you finish your training, you’ve got your crew and you’ve gone to Riccall. Have you been assigned to a squadron at this point?
NM: No. Not yet.
AM: Right. Ok.
NM: And there at Riccall I picked up a flight engineer and another gunner. And once again in latter years I said to the flight engineer, ‘How did you come to join me?’ He said ‘Well, I saw you standing there and I walked over and stood with you. It’s as easy as that.’ And so the same with the gunner. He came and joined me. And then of course on completion of that but before then the chief flying instructor at Riccall was called Harry Drummond. So, I got used, just used to flying the Halifax. He said, ‘Right, Mottershead take your crew and there’s, one of the planes over there. One of the Halibags. Take that and get a bit of flying hours in with them.’ Fair enough. Thank you very much and off we went. We got in this aircraft. Taxied around to the runway. Ok. Right. Open the throttle. I was belting down the runway and looked at my speedometer. I hadn’t got any. No speed. And it was too late to stop so I took off without it. And I flew without a speedometer around a time or two. And we tried to, what had happened we’d left the cover on the pitot head. Once again checking beforehand. We tried — first of all we opened the hatch in the front and tried to push it off and we couldn’t do anything like that. We couldn’t reach it. And so I switched on the heater and the heater wouldn’t burn it off. I thought, ‘Well, righto. Well, I’ve got you up here. You lads. I’d better get you down again.’ So, I said, ‘Right, we’re going in now.’ And I approached a little too fast because I didn’t want to stall and go in before I reached the runway. And so, I sort of hit the runway and bounced a little bit which wasn’t good for old Halifax bombers and whipped around and parked up where I’d taken it from and the crew got out. The wireless operator stood on the shoulders of the flight engineer, reached up and took the pitot head cover off just before Harry Drummond arrived around the corner. And he gave me a rollicking for landing the way I did but I didn’t tell him what had gone wrong. Went the day well again.
AM: Yeah.
NM: And so the day came that we had to go to Lissett. We were transferred to Lissett. Now, I think I’d probably heard of Lissett but we all went. There was Doug Cameron and his crew and myself and my crew. And of course, we had to get a bit of flying in together before we went on operations. I arrived there. Can you switch off a second, I’ll go and fetch —
[recording paused]
NM: Are you on?
AM: Ok. We’re back on.
NM: Right. I arrived at Lissett on the 15th of June 1943. And after a familiarisation on the 16th and the 17th — on the 21st was my first operation. To Krefeld. Now, all targets, as Bomber Command will tell you, have got searchlights and flak as well as fighters waiting to get hold of you. So, we went, went through the — etcetera. And poor Doug Cameron — a different story. I must tell you about him. Not on my record. And as a result, when we got back — you see a rear gunner never sees what’s ahead of him. He can only see what’s behind and he could see the fires in Krefeld burning thirty miles away. So when we arrived back at Lissett we went to the debriefing room and he said to me, ‘I’m not bloody going again.’ I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘I am not bloody going again.’ And he was taken out and stripped straightaway of his brevet, sergeants and all the rest of it. What happened to him I don’t know but in, in hindsight he did me a very good turn. For they took my other gunner, mid-upper gunner from me and a couple of gunners had just completed a tour — a Canadian pilot’s tour of operations. But they needed another five runs themselves so, one of them related, the Groupie, said to — ‘Go around and see Mottershead. He’s looking for some gunners.’ And they came around to see me and we were discussing one thing or another. And I said, ‘Right. This is the position. My job is to fly that thing. And if you tell me to dive to port I shall dive to port. Don’t you worry about it. Everything you tell me I shall do.’ They said, ‘We’re in.’ And so they stayed with me for their five ops which cleared them. Then I got my original gunner back. Mid-upper gunner back.
AM: Mid-upper.
NM: Having lost the rear gunner. And then I had nineteen different gunners on my tour of operation which was must be a flaming record with the exception of perhaps a wing commander and that who had to grab a crew where he could get one.
AM: Why did they keep changing, Bluey?
NM: Well, I had to have gunners and they [pause] Smith and Edwards were the names of the two gunners were and we got on a like a mountain on fire and so it went on one after another. I went to Berlin on three occasions. I went to [pause] oh hell. Where’s the cathedral?
AM: Oh.
NM: We went —
AM: Dresden. Not Dresden.
NM: No. Cologne.
AM: Oh Cologne. Yeah.
NM: I went to Cologne on three occasions. I went to Mannheim on three occasions and in between all the other nights that we were bombing etcetera. On the second visit to Mannheim we were, people do not realise this, we were flying in complete darkness and other than the fact we saw markers ahead so the bomb aimer led us, led me to it, and he said, ‘Right. Bombs gone.’ Two or three seconds later there was such a hell of a bang. I said, ‘What the bloody hell was that?’ And what had happened an aircraft above us had dropped his load and hit my port inner engine. It sheared the blades off the engine. Off the propellers. And of course, the engine ran away and with it going like that it shook the plane as though it was really in trouble. Anyway, fortunately I’d got a very good flight engineer. He shut the engine down. Closed it down. Then he pumped all the fuel out of the tank nearest to the port inner across the wing to the tanks on the other side you see. Now, my reaction was, when that happened — stick the nose down let’s get out of here which I did do. Because the explosion had hit the Perspex around me on the port, especially on the port side and did other damage etcetera and so it was, we were down to five thousand feet before we could make headway. Now, everyone in Bomber Command will tell you if you are on your own flying at five thousand feet by heck you’ll soon have somebody on your tail. So, we were crossing and as we flew cross country in the dark I could see the lights of this town or city, whatever it was, I could see all the street lights because being under Nazi control they didn’t have to have a blackout. And so I said, ‘Right, get some Window ready in case the searchlights come up,’ etcetera. And we gave a dose of Window and they didn’t come on and we kept flying and I crossed —
AM: What’s Window?
NM: Window.
AM: What’s that mean?
NM: Slips of paper, silver backed paper.
AM: Oh yes.
NM: And that dropping by the millions fill their, their —
AM: The radar.
NM: The radar.
AM: The signal.
NM: What we call Grass.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
NM: They couldn’t pick out what was what and [pause] where’d I got to —
AM: So, you’re on your way back.
NM: On our way back –
AM: You’ve seen all the lights.
NM: We crossed the coast and I said to the flight engineer, ‘What’s the fuel like?’ He said, ‘We’ve got enough to get back to Lissett.’ And so, we went back to Lissett. Now, the hydraulics on the Halifax is controlled by the port inner engine. The hydraulic. And I didn’t know whether my undercarriage was locked. So I called in and they said, ‘Right. Fly down the runway as low as you can, and we’ll put the searchlight on you and have a look at you.’ So, having done that they said, ‘Right. We think you’re locked in alright.’ I said, ‘Right.’ So I went around again and landed. Went the day well.
AM: Again.
NM: We were back home. And it went on until the last. My last trip was to Berlin on the 22nd of November 1943 and the Wing Commander Jock Calder was on that night. I feel sure he was on. So when we came, you know, came from our aircraft in to debriefing Jock said to me, ‘That’s it Bluey. No more.’ And that was the end of my tour. The end of my flying altogether. I never did fly anything else.
AM: Ever.
NM: Ever.
AM: DFC.
NM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I then, they decided they needed controllers for operating Oboe. Now, Oboe was controlling aircraft over Germany from, from either — the main station was in Norfolk. Winterton. Did you happen to see the programme last night on — it was all about the lighthouses turned into houses etcetera. And Winterton was the Cat station. Now there was another station down in Deal in Kent and that was called the Mouse station. And the Cat station was controlled — the Cat station controlled the pilot. The Mouse station was talking to the navigator, bomb aimer. We’re talking about Mosquitos. And so, he would, when he reached the area he wanted to he’d pick up our signal. If he was too near he had dots. If he was too far out he had dashes. He had to have a steady signal and kept flying at a distance from the station in Norfolk at a distance of say two hundred and fifty miles away. And if he kept flying he would complete a two hundred and fifty mile circuit all around us, you see. But [pause] so, I had to go down to Swanage to learn all about this Oboe business at a little place called Tilly Whim. Down there. They seemed to have a station of the same thing. So when we’d finished. Right. I had no say on where I was going and I was sent to Winterton in Norfolk. Not to the one in Kent. The next morning after I arrived there I walked into the signals office and there was a young lady on the teleprinter talking to headquarters for 8 Group. Headquarters at — I forget the name for the moment. On the tele — on the teleprinter. And when she’d finished she looked at me and I said, ‘You’re wearing too much makeup.’ I’d found my wife. So —
AM: What did she say back?
NM: She didn’t. She [laughs] she was, she was a WAAF, you see. Oh dear. Oh dear and then of course that went on until the war had finished and then they didn’t want anybody there then.
AM: So what exactly were you doing there, Bluey?
NM: I was watching the younger part of the air force. That they’d got everything set up alright. The distance and all that sort of thing. What was going on. And I was even taken from there and posted down in to Deal. The Cat station. For a while.
AM: The Cat one.
NM: Anyway, when the war was over we didn’t need either of them. And so of course I had met Kay and there we are, by hangs another tale. So, I was still in the air force and they decided well you’ve done a lot of link trainer flying. The link trainer aircraft in the dark. It’s a statutory thing but you’re all closed in. You can’t see what was going on. You had to fly by instruments. And so, I learned, I learned how to do that and they posted me first of all to Prestwick in Norfolk.
AM: In –
NM: In Ayrshire. To the airfield there well that was then being taken over to become the airfield for Glasgow.
AM: Yes.
NM: The main airfield. So, I was on there a very short time and they said, ‘Right. Well we’ll post you to Marham in Norfolk.’ And I was on the same thing but when I got there and set up everything and ready for pilots they said well the war’s over we don’t need to do this anymore. And so, the rest of my time I was doing all sorts of jobs. Particularly, orderly officer and all that sort of thing and then I reached the stage where I thought, ‘Right. Look. We’ve got to go ahead now. We’ve got civilian life ahead,’ and so my dear wife and I decided —
AM: So, you were married by this time.
NM: We were getting married then.
AM: Ok. Yeah. Sorry.
NM: The war had finished up. We had already arranged the marriage up in Lanarkshire because she was a Lanarkshire girl, for the 18th of August 1945. The war finished in the Far East the 15th of August 1945. And so, we went up there and got married and thereafter settled down and I didn’t quite know what to do. Like a lot of people who had been in the services it was difficult to know exactly what to do. Anyway, there was a company in Liverpool called Silcocks Animal Foods that supplied to farming communities and I’d been a farmer’s son. And the position I was in and a decent sort of looking fellow the Silcocks agent who used to, who went to Shropshire, covered Shropshire said, ‘Well why don’t you join us?’ And so, I made enquiries and I joined Silcocks. I was sent to Nuneaton under an agent who had been there years to help him and I did all the necessary. And then came a vacancy of an area in Derbyshire and so I was sent from there to Derbyshire and landed in Brailsford on the, in August 1952. Something like that. And settled down and I was going around the farms and of course they knew I was a flying type and at that time Brooke Bond had a certain types of cigarette. Not cigarettes but cards in the thing.
AM: Yes.
NM: And that helped me to get familiar with the families etcetera. Swapping and one thing and another. And I reached the stage where one Remembrance Sunday morning at Brailsford, after that Mr Cecil Dalton who ran Silkolene Lubricants at Belper said, ‘Neville, will you come and work for me?’ And I said, ‘Mr Cecil, I will come and work for you.’ And I went and worked for Silkolene Lubricants until I retired.
AM: Right.
NM: Good.
AM: Neville. It sounds funny to hear you called Neville. I always think of you as Bluey.
NM: Yeah. Well I’m still known as Bluey of course. As you know.
AM: Just tell me why you became called Bluey.
NM: Because of my hair. I had ginger red hair. Now, the Australians — those big kangaroos in Australia which have reddy brown hair were called Blues. And so, when the first Australian saw me he said, ‘Well you’re a Bluey.’ And that’s it.
AM: It stuck.
NM: And it’s been with me ever since.
AM: Can I ask you a little bit about the 158 Squadron Association.
NM: Yes.
AM: And you became chairman I think. Tell me a little about that.
NM: Yes. Well I started looking, I started when I came [pause] when I’d finished. Well as soon as I could, I can’t remember exactly, I decided to draw up a register of all those who had been with 158 Squadron and [pause] now I’m looking for something in particular. I think I left it next door. But it’s the book with all the names in. The complete crews. And I kept getting these names of these, of these people and inviting them. And so in 1989 I think it was I got the freedom of entry into this town of Bridlington for the squadron and that’s how it developed from there. And I’m still now president of the squadron until such time as I kick my boots and somebody else will take over.
AM: So, every year you go up to Lissett.
NM: Every time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now I’ll —
AM: And what about the memorial? Tell me a little bit more about the memorial at Lissett.
NM: Yes.
AM: How did that come about?
NM: Well. After Lissett the old airfield became a farm. Belonged to a farmer. And the powers that be decided it would be the ideal site to put up wind generators. So they put up twelve wind generators on the old airfield. In the meantime, 158 — if you reverse those figure you’ve got 851 and that was the number of young people who were killed on that squadron alone. Eight hundred and fifty one. Eight hundred and fifty males and one female. The one female was a sergeant WAAF in the Met office and she’d never been in an aeroplane and she went on a flight with someone unscheduled just to show her what went on. The damned thing crashed on [pause] that Head that comes out north of Bridlington. Crashed there and killed the lot of them. And she was one of them. So there was eight hundred and fifty airmen, men, who were killed and one WAAF. And so, it was decided by the people who were going to put these generators up that they needed a memorial and of course we were behind it and said yes. And that memorial is still drawing people. Just as the Angel of the North drew people to see it so the one at Lissett. Is that still on? In fact, the other day, one of our members who lives up in the Wakefield area had been up there and gone to have a look at it. He said, ‘It looks awful,’ he said, ‘All we’ve got is stalks left.’ What happened is there are flowers which bloom.
AM: Yeah. There’s poppies there.
NM: And then it’s all left so that the seeds from that drop down to the ground and re –
AM: Yeah.
NM: Come alive again. And he went at the bad time of the year. So, when he rang again I said, ‘Look there’s nothing I can do about it. As much as I appreciate you ringing me and telling me. I know what its like. But,’ I said, ‘We have nobody in that area at all to do anything.’ But the locals do it. Anyway, I understood that they’d even called in the East Midlands, East Yorkshire organisation had called in people to go and have a clean up there.
AM: People.
NM: I hadn’t ordered it. They just went and did it.
AM: Excellent because it’s a lovely memorial isn’t it.
NM: It’s a lovely memorial. A friend of mine from Derbyshire whose funeral I attended this year — he always talked about me and us and I said, ‘Well take a run up there and have a look at the memorial yourself.’ So he, along with another couple and he and his wife went to see it and then I saw him a few days afterwards. I said, ‘What do you think of the memorial?’ And he said, ‘It’s a very very wonderful thing.’ He said, ‘I read every name on that memorial and yours wasn’t on it.’ [laughs] So, I said, ‘Well it won’t be will it? I’m still here.’
AM: Still here. They’re the ones that are not.
NM: He didn’t realise that you see. But it really is. Oh, and let me go and fetch something first.
[recording paused]
AM: So I’m looking at a picture of the first meeting of the Squadron Association.
NM: In 1947.
AM: Ok. Were you there? Are you on it?
NM: Yes. Yes. I’m on the back row. You’ll see me.
AM: Point. Point yourself out to me.
NM: This little chap here, look.
AM: Oh of course you are.
NM: And that was arranged by Scruffy Dale at — I forget the name of the place now. And we all turned up for this and that photograph was taken. And there’s all sorts of people on that photograph and I can — there’s no one left on that photograph as far as I’m concerned. Only me. All the rest are gone. Now, I want to show you this because this is what I’m working on.
AM: Bluey’s showing me the most beautiful tapestry. Is it tapestry or cross stitch?
NM: No. It’s tapestry.
AM: Tapestry of the Halifax and —
NM: The crew.
AM: The crew and it’s beautiful and we’ll take a photograph of it.
NM: It’s not finished yet ‘cause I’ll go and fetch the other bit if I haven’t got it here. This is the other bit.
AM: How long have you been doing this for Bluey?
NM: [laughs] Oh heaven knows.
AM: It’s lovely. I’m going to end the interview now but we’ll take a photograph of this — of the tapestry that Bluey’s been doing.
NM: Now that fits. That will be fitted in there.
AM: Right.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bluey Mottershead
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-19
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMotterheadN150719
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:45:34 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Born on a farm in Shropshire, his best friend from his youth joined the Royal Air Force as aircrew and was killed at RAF Honington when a German aircraft bombed the station. A desire for revenge made him enlist for flying duties in January 1941. He was sent to RAF Scampton for basic training where he had a flight in a Hampden which he rated as "not fit for purpose".
Flying training commenced at RAF Booker on Tiger Moths and he was then sent out of England as part of the Empire Training Scheme. Flying training on Stearman aircraft recommenced at Lakeland in Florida followed by multi-engined training at Macon in Georgia and Valdosta for advanced training. In October 1942 he became a pilot under the American Army Air Force System and declined an offer to stay and become an instructor.
Returning to Britain on an unescorted Queen Elizabeth liner, he trained on Oxfords at RAF Little Rissington. Posted to RAF Harwell to fly, in Bluey's terms "clapped out Wellingtons" he describes the system for forming a crew. They were posted to RAF Riccall to fly the Halifax.
The next posting was to an operational squadron at RAF Lissett where he did his first operational flight to Krefeld in June 1943 and trips to Berlin, Cologne and Mannheim. After his trip to Krefeld, his rear gunner refused to fly and was removed. On his second trip to Mannheim, Bluey's aircraft was struck by a bomb from an aircraft flying above. They had to reduce height and so used Window to disguise their location. The final trip was to Berlin in November 1943 and, having completed his tour, was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. Bluey never flew again. Sent to Tilly Whim, Bluey was trained to operate Oboe and explains the device. Posted to an Oboe station at RAF Winterton to monitor junior operatives, he met his future wife.
After the war had finished he became an instructor on the Link Trainer and sent to various RAF stations and finally to RAF Marham from where he was demobilised and returned to civilian life. In civilian life, employment in the farm feed industry was followed by time in the lubricant industry until retirement. Bluey compiled a register of all crews that flew with 158 Squadron and formed a Squadron association in 1947, of which he became president, and organised a memorial to the squadron at former RAF Lissett.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-06
1943-11
Spatial Coverage
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England--Gloucestershire
England--Norfolk
England--Oxfordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
Canada
United States
Florida
Florida--Lakeland
Georgia
Georgia--Macon
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Mannheim
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
158 Squadron
aircrew
bomb struck
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Flying Training School
Halifax
Hampden
Harvard
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
love and romance
memorial
military ethos
Oboe
Oxford
pilot
RAF Hampstead Norris
RAF Harwell
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Honington
RAF Lissett
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Marham
RAF Riccall
RAF Scampton
recruitment
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Window
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/846/10841/PGreenwoodBE1502.2.jpg
ff17c42ebef7a5b84f373dcca56d73cb
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/846/10841/AGreenwoodB151123.1.mp3
eae2676ba92c1d4ffebda91c844f7c7e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Greenwood, Betty
Betty Elenor Greenwood
B E Greenwood
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Betty Greenwood (b.1926) a pair of gloves and two photographs. She was a plotter in the Royal Observer Corps.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Betty Greenwood and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Greenwood, BE
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: Right. So, this is Annie Moody on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre and Lincoln University and today I’m with Betty Greenwood in Eskwith, near York and it’s Monday 23rd November 2015. So, thank you for agreeing to take part Betty. I’m going to take my bangle off ‘cause it makes a noise.
BG: You’re very welcome.
AM: Betty, can you tell me just a little about where you were born, what your parents did and your childhood?
BG: Yes. I was born in Belton in Lancashire and my father was in catering at that time. He was then given a job as a coffee buyer but he had to go and live in the Isle of Man and he was paid in the Isle of Man. Now regrettably when I was eight he died so that had all gone by the board and I came to live with my grandmother who brought me up and I lived in Leeds. But prior to living in Leeds I’d had a couple of years in Halifax at Princess Mary High School which was very pleasant actually. It was very nice.
AM: Um. So, you lived in Leeds and how old were you when you left school, or?
BG: Sixteen.
AM: OK. And then what? Then where?
BG: Well this is where it starts.
AM: Um.
BG: This was towards the end of the War and I was at Notre Dame in Leeds. And at the moment seven per cent of the population is privately educated. So, sixty years ago probably it would be five per cent and I reckon they’re all there on that photograph.
AM: Wow.
BG: Right.
AM: And I’m looking at an amazing photograph of the whole?
BG: It’s the Observer, that’s the Observer Corps.
AM: Right. I was going to ask what about the three gentlemen at the front there?
BG: Yes, because they would not be called up, because there was obviously something wrong with them.
AM: Right.
BG: An ailment or something like that. But they gave their services for free to the Observer Corps.
AM: OK.
BG: Now when I left school the War was coming to a close but you couldn’t go out and get a job, you were directable.
AM: Can I just wheel back again?
BG: Yes.
AM: Val said that you were at school in Paris at one point?
BG: No, only for three weeks.
AM: Why Paris though and what?
BG: Notre Dame, Notre Dame in Paris, because my grandmother thought it would be very good if I had French and things like that. And my friend and went on a very battered boat to France, but the nuns there obviously knew that the War was imminent.
AM: So this was in 1939?
BG: Yes, this was the beginning of the War, and we were shipped back within three weeks. But when you had your meals there you had to ask for them in French so I only really got pomme de terre and water. That was all and I came back as lot thinner. [laughter]
AM: Pomme de terre and l’eau. [laughter]
BG: Then when I went out.
AM: Right.
BG: But getting back.
AM: OK.
BG: To leaving school at sixteen, seventeen. The War was nearly over but we were directable. And within a fortnight we had letters from the Government saying what we could do and what we couldn’t do. I had three letters, one from Barnbow, they were the tank manufacturers in Leeds, I could go and rivet nails there. I could go to Bilborough Hostel, which was like, where do they send the naughty boys?
AM: Like a borstal?
BG: Like a borstal. I could go and scrub floors there. Or, it was, what was it? It was Barnbow, Bilborough Hostel and another one. I can’t remember the other one. But the other one, oh it was the Askham Bryan Prison.
AM: Equally attractive then?
BG: Yes. So, they were all three jobs and none of us could understand the Barnbow and prison. Not the Barnbow, the prison and the Bilborough Hospital, why the inmates couldn’t scrub the floors.
AM: Quite.
BG: Unless it was giving them too much freedom to escape I don’t know. But we couldn’t. So, my grandmother and my friend who is on that photograph next to me. Where am I? That’s me and that’s my friend.
AM: OK.
BG: She’s not next to me, she’s one away.
AM: Next but one.
BG: That’s me and that’s Win. Now we all look alike. All the hair-do’s are alike, it’s incredible isn’t it?
AM: I’ll scan this photograph and you’re absolutely right.
BG: Um.
AM: You’ve more or less got the same colour of hair.
BG: Yes. Now this had to be voluntary work so my grandmother said ‘Right you’re not going to do any of those things when they have inmates in these places that should be doing that work.’ So, I went, joined the Observer Corps with my friend from school and that was it really. And we were in headquarters which was in Kite Park in Leeds.
AM: In Leeds.
BG: And you approached this by going up, it was either Grove Road or Grosvenor Road, and I can’t just remember but it was a house, a detached house, stone built with about six or seven bedrooms, they were large houses.
AM: And did you and your friend just go on your own or with your grandmother?
BG: No, no, you had to do things on your own in those days, you weren’t mollycoddled. [laughter] And we were accepted obviously and –
AM: Well you say obviously, what, was there an interview, what?
BG: Well –
AM: Or did they just say ‘Yes please you can come?’
BG: You didn’t really have CV’s in those days. You just saw a man in charge in air force uniform and that was it. I mean obviously you had to be with it I suppose in some ways because there was a big table, a plotting table, with seats all around, and you had headphones and a ‘pusher’ and you pushed the aeroplanes onto the, this table and you could talk to guns. It was talking to guns, or talking to headquarters or talking to them in the aeroplanes. And then there was a big board, oh as big as that on the wall. And that was called a long-distance plotting. And that was when they sent over the hundred bomber raids and they appeared on this big thing.
AM: What training did you do?
BG: None at all.
AM: None? So how did they show you, who showed you what you had to do?
BG: Well, you just observed. You were stood behind, ah I remember now. There was a plotter on a chair with a pusher, and you just stood behind and listened and watched. So, it was observation really. And I suppose if you hadn’t been any good you would have been thrown out, I don’t really know, but it was very hit and miss.
AM: So, so tell me again what exactly you would. On a normal evening? Day?
BG: Oh, nights.
AM: Nights.
BG: Every night. We only worked nights. And we worked nights and I had to go through Leeds but I met up with my friend Win and we went through Leeds and there was a dance hall called the Mecca.
VT: There was.
BG: And it was all red plush, it was all red plush. And we used to sneak in and we were not allowed to go into this dance hall because there were Americans there, and you might get pregnant! [laughter]
AM: Would you have known what that meant at sixteen? Yes, you would.
BG: Yes, I suppose.
AM: What were you dressed in then when you sneaked into the dance hall?
BG: Oh, in the uniform.
AM: You had your?
BG: With a forage cap.
AM: OK.
BG: It was an air force, like the air force, what do they call the air force ladies?
AM: The WAAF’s?
BG: WAAF’s yes. It was a skirt, an air force skirt, stockings, black brogues, lace up’s and a bomber jacket with a matching tunic thing underneath and a forage cap. And we went into this Mecca dance hall dressed like that. Then, because we’d spent our money getting into the Mecca we used to walk from Leeds. Instead of taking, we had trams in those days, instead of taking the tram we walked. It was about three miles, so it wouldn’t do us any harm to walk.
AM: You’d spent your tram fare though getting into the Mecca?
BG: Yes.
AM: Did you dance with the Americans?
BG: Oh yes. [emphatic] Yes, yes we did. A lot of them. [laughter]
AM: Wonderful.
BG: And actually, this is one thing I never fathomed. There were Russians here as well and I couldn’t understand that.
AM: This is right towards the end? What year are we, will we be in now, early ’45?
BG: Yes. To the end.
AM: So.
BG: I mean I’m no good at –
AM: Early ’45.
BG: Yes. It must have been. But I couldn’t remember, understand why there were Russians there. They were all big and bear like.
AM: If you were born in ’26 what age were you? Sixteen did you say?
BG: Yes, sixteen, seventeen.
AM: Seventeen. Actually, it might have been ’44 then.
BG: Could have been, yes.
AM: So after D-Day, but still quite a chunk of the War, well they’ve still got to get up through France and Belgium and all the rest.
BG: Yes. But then when the War in Europe was over there’s still the War in Japan.
AM: There’s still, absolutely yeah. So, wheeling back to when you did your first day then, on the table.
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: Can you remember it, what did it feel like? And what did you actually have to do?
BG: I was really, actually people were quite scathing about doing things like that, but, because they thought you ought to be doing munition work. But I was quite proud to do that, you know, quite enjoyed it.
AM: Tell me about what you actually did.
BG: Well you had a long pusher, like a rake.
AM: Um.
BG: And you pushed little aeroplanes into sections.
AM: Right, when you say pushed them into sections. How did you know where to push them?
BG: Because you were through on the intercom.
AM: OK.
BG: On the earphones.
AM: You you’d got an earphone and you’d take?
BG: Yes. And you were just told where to put them. ‘Aircraft at twelve something and –
AM: How did you know which aircraft? They might sound like daft questions but I can, I’ve seen the pictures, but I can’t imagine how you knew what to move.
BG: Because the pilot or whoever said. Or whoever was telling you.
AM: Right.
BG: And one pilot sent me a parachute, pure silk parachute. And I had some underwear made, it was lovely.
AM: I bet. So, it was actually, so coming through on the intercom, you’ve actually got the pilots who are telling you about their own aircraft? Or about the enemy aircraft?
BG: Well, it was so that headquarters got an overall plan of how many aircraft and where they were heading.
AM: Right.
BG: Because you see when Coventry was bombed that was dreadful. But they would know by the people, there’s headquarters where we did plotting and then there were people dotted all over the country in little outlets. Like farmers who were in like a bunker and they were out with their binoculars.
AM: Observing?
BG: Yes. And they used to come back.
AM: So you’re getting messages from a variety of people really?
BG: Oh yes, yes.
AM: To say x number of aircraft in that section now?
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: So you girls –
BG: And they could say whether they were Heinkels or whatever. And they would say the Halifax’s when they were ours, Wellingtons and the different things.
AM: And you’re moving them. How many girls would there have been around the table?
BG: There were about ten.
AM: So there was about ten of you?
BG: Um.
AM: All getting the various messages, getting the aircraft?
BG: Yes, yes, yes. But it was over quite a large area of the country.
AM: What area of the country did you cover?
BG: You know I can’t, I was trying to think about this. It was as far down to Lincoln I know. And West Yorkshire, East Yorkshire, it was quite a big area.
AM: Um. So, it was the bombers going out by that time rather than the German bombers coming in? Although there would still be some.
BG: They did mass raids.
AM: Um.
BG: It’s the mass raids that I seem to –
AM: You said you remembered the hundred bombers?
BG: Um. That was when they did a hundred bombers. The Germans sent them over in block.
AM: Um.
BG: But it was quite fun. You’ve got to remember we had little food, very little food. And no transport, or very little transport. Now, I don’t know whether I ought to say, there was really a big black market in food. And all these farmers that were spread around in the villages. I’m saying farmers, they weren’t all farmers. There were different people but the farmers had access to food obviously and we used to be invited by the people, the observers, to parties. Well we’d never known a, we’d never known food like it. It was wonderful. [laughter]
AM: Fresh eggs.
BG: Yes, fresh eggs and ham. Ham, I remember that.
AM: And that was the observers out in the fields?
BG: Yes.
AM: Sending the messages into you?
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: Who did you actually work for? Were you part of the RAF or part of the?
BG: I don’t, I really don’t. [laughter]
AM: It was the Observer Corps.
BG: It was attached to the RAF yes.
AM: Yeah.
BG: I don’t know who started the Observer Corps at all.
AM: We can find out. We’ll Google it Betty.
BG: Yes. I don’t know I’ve never given it a thought. Because I only have that photo. I have got [rustling noise]. That’s my badge.
AM: Oh gosh.
BG: I mean you’re welcome to that if you –
AM: Oh no, we’ll take a photograph of it. Where would you have worn that on your lapel or on your forage cap?
BG: On my tie.
AM: On your tie.
BG: I mean it’s not very good metal but it is nice. But we all got a Defence Medal at the end.
AM: Right.
BG: And we had burglars and mine went which was a shame because I think it was rather nice that we got a Defence Medal. [Rustling of paper] That’s my husband who was a medic.
AM: I’ll ask you about him in a minute, I can see his wings. Um, going back, I want to go back to this plotting table. So, you were all there, pushing your?
BG: Yes, and on the long distance as well.
AM: Aha.
BG: So it was like duplicated. There were all the squares cut up into sections as far as I remember. And there was an observer for one section out on the field.
AM: Aha. And did you have the big board with the lights on, on the wall?
BG: Yes. And they had a special metallic stick that you used to push. You know how that handbag that Val bought me had a metallic fastening and it?
AM: Like a?
BG: Goes zing.
AM: Like a magnetic thing on the end?
BG: Yes, um, yes.
AM: How long did you do that for? How long did you work there?
BG: You know I can’t remember. Because as soon as I could, I was fed up. Not with the Observer Corps, I enjoyed that bit, but I was fed up, being told what to do. At that age, to me I was suffocating. And what I did, my Father had left me a little annuity, so I had money, where other people, where a lot of the girls didn’t have. And I knew a friend who was a physiotherapist and she was Danish. And she used to say ‘Come and see me, come and see me.’ And actually I went to Denmark on –
AM: After the War? It must have been mustn’t it?
BG: Yes, just as the War in Japan had finished. I went to Denmark on a broken down, they’ll probably hate me for saying this there were two vessels in Goole harbour. The Don and The Durn. And I went on The Don to Copenhagen to see Elsa.
AM: You see you just say that so matter of factly but we’re right, just at the end of the War.
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: We’re not talking package holidays and things here.
BG: Oh no, no. [emphatic]
AM: How did you manage to get a ticket and all?
BG: Well, it was the Ellerman Wilson line and they were just beginning to start again. I think Elsa my friend in Denmark, I think she did the booking or whatever it was.
AM: How did you come to have a friend in Denmark?
BG: Well she was a physiotherapist and they get around quite a bit. And she knew a Miss Ebner, Ebner. And I suppose it was because of Miss Ebner that she came to England, and Miss Ebner was the head of the physiotherapists in Leeds. She was a lovely –
AM: So how did you know physiotherapists in Leeds?
BG: How did I know? I haven’t a clue. [laughter]
AM: It just all sounds quite exotic.
BG: I suppose it is. Well, how do I know Val? Because she’s my neighbour. But I can’t remember how I met Elsa, probably it was at the Mecca.
AM: Anyway with the Americans. So, you went off on the boat, 1945 or ’46?
BG: Something like that.
AM: To Denmark?
BG: Yes.
AM: As you do.
BG: And then I, it was so different, and so laid back. And the children, I can remember wakening at Elsa’s in the early morning and hearing all these voices, all these children. And they were at school for eight o’clock, but they finished earlier. And then I thought ‘I’d probably like to stay here.’ And I went backwards and forwards on the Don from Grimsby, from Copenhagen to Grimsby quite a bit. And then I thought ‘I think I shall like a job here.’ So, I went into, they were all English speaking so you didn’t have to worry about the Danish or anything like that, they were very bright. And I went into Magasin du Nord, which was one of the largest store, the largest store, and probably still is in Denmark, I don’t know. And I got a job, but they put me on the boat department and I hadn’t a clue. [chuckles] But I knew every ships chandler in, down the Skagerrat? and the Kattegat?, but not in England. [laughter]
AM: Tell me how long did you stay in Denmark for?
BG: Oh, I can’t remember. Until I was, oh, I came back when I was twenty-eight.
AM: Right, OK.
BG: So it wasn’t that long but it was very memorable.
AM: it sounds it. Well, it sounds just completely different.
BG: Yes.
AM: To what most girls would be doing.
BG: Yes.
AM: At that age just after the end of the War.
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: You escaped loads of the rationing years and –
BG: Yes, but England was getting back.
AM: Yes.
BG: I mean I think we did a very good job getting back to normal. [Rustling noise] I’m just trying to get this little thing out because , oh, now then I’ve dropped the thing.
AM: We’ll find it in a minute. You showed me a picture of your husband.
BG: He’s very handsome.
AM: He is very handsome.
BG: Just going to put this light on.
AM: And ask you, so I’m holding this picture of very handsome gentleman in RAF uniform?
BG: Yes.
AM: Yeah. So, tell me about him then. When did you, where did you meet him and when?
BG: Well, he was just a medic, and went to Canada. Felt very, what is the word I want? Very guilty about being in Canada because he was well fed.
AM: Whilst the War was on?
BG: Yes. You know, training people. He felt very aggrieved that he’s been seconded there.
AM: So he was in one of the operational training units, but training medics?
BG: Yes, yes.
AM: For the RAF?
BG: I would think so. I didn’t know him them.
AM: Well no, where did you meet him then Betty? [laughter] How old were you when you met him? Dare I ask?
BG: In Halifax.
AM: Right.
BG: In Halifax at a friend’s.
AM: He’s very handsome.
BG: Brylcreem boy. [laughter]
AM: He looks it.
BG: That’s what I called him.
AM: Just whizzing back to the War years for the minute. When you were at school, so in the early part of the War. Do you remember being bombed?
BG: Yes.
AM: Do you remember the bombing raids? What was that like?
BG: Yes. Well, Leeds was very lucky. It was bombed but infrequently. It was mostly in the Burmantofts, York Road area. And why that happened, I suppose it was because it was the main junction of the railroad there.
AM: Yeah.
BG: That was probably it.
AM: So railway marshalling yards were quite often a target.
BG: Yes. We were very lucky in Leeds. Very lucky.
AM: It’s. See you think this is just an ordinary story. And I suppose it is an ordinary story isn’t it? But it’s not because we can’t envisage what it would be like.
BG: it is very ordinary. But we didn’t eat much. If you think, the butter ration. I think, I’m thinking in grammes now and it was ounces then. If I recall the butter ration was about two ounces a week. [emphasis on week] Yes, yes.
AM: So you’re talking a little, like the little pats of butter we get now almost?
BG: Yes, but because we had some relatives in Iowa in America they used to send us food parcels. And there was tinned butter in, and oh that was lovely to have tinned butter. [laughter]
AM: It’s amazing isn’t it? Val, have you got any questions? You know Betty more than me, what have I missed?
VD: Well mostly post-War I know, not your pre-War experiences or your wartime experiences.
BG: Well, you see.
VD: Mainly post War that I know about.
AM: Tell me a little bit about what you ended up doing. I know what you ended up doing.
BG: I was only buying for a group of stores that’s all.
VD: A bit more exotic than that.
AM: It was a bit more exotic than just buying. What were you buying?
BG: Furs.
AM: Furs.
BG: Oh, did you see the programme about the fake furs on the television this morning?
AM: No.
BG: It was very, very interesting. About all the furs that are coming in now, trimmed for the coats and things that are trimmed.
AM: Um, right.
BG: And how they’re putting real fur on and saying it’s fake. It was quite an interesting programme.
AM: Where did you go then fur buying?
BG: Um?
AM: Where did you go fur buying?
BG: London, Glasgow, Russia.
AM: Russia?
BG: Later on that was.
AM: I wondered about Russia.
BG: Um.
AM: I’ve got a beautiful black fox hat from Russia. I’m going to switch this off.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Betty Greenwood
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-11-23
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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00:28:53 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AGreenwoodB151123, PGreenwoodBE1502
Language
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eng
Description
An account of the resource
Betty Greenwood was born in 1926 in Belton, Lancashire; she attended Princess Mary high school was and privately educated in Paris but returned due to the threat of war. At sixteen she was offered various jobs but decided to join the Royal Observer Corps. She was recruited with training on the job as a long-distance plotter, being connected to the intercom and relaying information to the plotting table displaying radar sightings in the area. Betty discusses social and service life, the Women's Auxiliary Air Force uniform, meeting her husband in Halifax who had served in Canada as a trained medic for the Royal Air Force on operational training units. Concludes discussing a photograph of men who served in the Royal Observer Corps due to disabilities.
Spatial Coverage
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England--Leeds
England--Yorkshire
France
France--Paris
Canada
Nova Scotia
Nova Scotia--Halifax
Great Britain
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
ground personnel
love and romance
military living conditions
Operational Training Unit
radar
recruitment
Royal Observer Corps
training
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1111/11601/ASaundersJ170609.1.mp3
9eb6de7875d7e6d31dad307ae215e888
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Simon, Francis William
Frank Simon
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. An oral history interview with Jillian Saunders about her father, Francis William Simon (b. 1917, 2211910 Royal Air Force), his log book and photographs. He flew operations as a flight engineer with 153 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jillian Saunders and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
In accordance with the conditions stipulated by the donor, some items are available only at the International Bomber Command Centre / University of Lincoln.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-06-02
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Simon, FW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AM: Right. I’m just going to pop that there but just ignore it. So, today it’s Friday the 9th of June. The day after the election 2017. And this is Annie Moody for the International Bomber Command Centre. I’m with Jill Saunders today and we’re at Jill’s home at [ buzz ] Whiston, in Rotherham. And Jill’s going to talk to me about her mum and dad and their experiences during the bomber war. But then we’ll also come on and talk a little bit about Jill’s experiences since with regards 153 Squadron and also with regards to research into a specific plane. So I’m going to start off, if that’s ok Jill just to ask you a little bit about what you know and what you can remember about your mum and dad’s childhood. Perhaps we’ll start with your dad first. How old would he, can, can you remember what year he was born?
JS: He was born, he’d have been, he’ll be a hundred in, next month.
AM: Ok.
JS: So he was born in 1917.
AM: Right. Ok. So just towards the end of the First World War then.
JS: Yes. Yeah.
AM: Where was he born?
JS: He was born in Salford. His mother died when he was twelve. And his father died about eighteen months later.
AM: Right.
JS: Of a heart, of, well no. His mother died, she’d had an operation for, to have her tonsils out and they left a swab in and she got septicaemia and she died. Which he never got over. And his father I’m not supposed to know it but he was found hanging in the outside loo about eighteen months later.
AM: Right.
JS: So my father was actually brought up by his much older sister, Margaret who he idolised. She was his mum virtually.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And he lived with her until after the war. Until he got married.
AM: Did he have brothers and sisters?
JS: No. No. No, he didn’t.
AM: No. So did Margaret.
JS: Well he had his sister. Margaret was his sister who brought him up.
AM: Of course.
JS: Yeah.
AM: But you said she was considerably older than him.
JS: Yes.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That’s alright.
AM: I’m thinking aunt rather than sister there.
JS: Her son, Les died last year, in fact. He was eighty. He was my cousin obviously and he thought the world of his Uncle Frank and Auntie Peggy. And told me once how, I think it would be in November ’44 he’d be about ten or eleven, something like that. He went to school one day. They were preparing for the Christmas concert and they needed some gold paint for something so the teacher said, ‘Anybody got any gold paint?’ So he said, ‘I’ve got some at home, sir.’ ‘Go home and get it then.’ And when he got home his mum, that’s my dad’s sister Margaret was there making tea and toast for a full seven aircrew who were all sitting around on the living room floor. So, young Les walked in and sort of wow. And they made a fuss of him and he had some tea and toast. And it was the naughtiest thing Les ever did in his life. He didn’t go back to school. They took him to Bellevue for the afternoon.
AM: The zoo.
JS: Yeah. And funfare as it was in those days. And he thought that was great fun. And you know they all made much of him and he remembered my dad and all his crew until the day he died which was last year.
AM: Yeah. It just shows you doesn’t it? So did your dad go to school in Salford?
JS: Dad went to school in Salford. Yes. He was Salford born and bred. Proud to be a Salfordian. And started work. He got an apprenticeship as a fitter.
AM: So, did he leave school at fourteen or —
JS: I don’t know what age he would be.
AM: No. Because it was usually the fourteen for school certificate.
JS: Something like that. He was bright though. Totally wasted. And he was a brilliant engineer. And I think he served his time at Reynold’s. Reynold Chain. That was in Trafford Park, I think in those days. In fact, he worked at the time with Harold Goodwin the actor who was in a lot of war films including, ‘Bridge over the River Kwai.” Little man. He was in quite a lot of war films. And every time one of these films came on TV my dad would go off. ‘There he is the little so and so.’ He was a conshy. He wouldn’t go in the war.
AM: Ok.
JS: But he made all these films afterwards which really wound my father up.
AM: I can imagine.
JS: So, yeah. So he, as I say he served his time as a fitter. In his latter years he was such a good engineer his nickname was Two Thou Frank because everything had to be done to two thousandth of an inch or less. He was just meticulous with everything. The paperwork. You know. He drove me mad with my homework. You know. I had to underline my answers and it had to be neat. He was just that sort of guy really.
AM: So what, so if he started work and apprenticeship.
JS: Yeah.
AM: As a fitter.
JS: Yeah.
AM: What year would that be then? ‘Ish?
JS: I don’t know.
AM: Or am I, obviously pre-war.
JS: It’s pre-war. Yeah. And I know he was a Volunteer Reserve.
AM: Right. So, so this is when?
JS: Because I’ve got his little VR badge. And I think he moved onto AV Roe’s working there and was classed as Reserved Occupation.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So, he was actually older and later joining the fray.
AM: Right.
JS: Than most his contemporaries —
AM: So he actually worked at AV Roe as an, as and engine, a fitter.
JS: Which is where, where he met my mum.
AM: An engineer. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. And he finally got his call up papers and kept for years his one way ticket. His rail ticket. Which —
AM: Yeah.
JS: I threw it out of course. He called it his one way ticket. So, yeah. So then he, he trained for the, they wanted him, they were short of engineers in the RAF and it was the obvious place for him to go really. He trained at St Athan as most of them did. Then he, I’ve got his logbook there. He went through various places but ended up in 166 Squadron at Kirmington.
AM: Ok.
JS: And then in October ’44 he’d crewed up with six Australians at Kirmington.
AM: Right.
JS: Formed a crew, and they were sent down to Scampton to form 153 Squadron with a number of other crews.
AM: Did he tell you anything about the crewing up process? And how they, how that particular —
JS: Yeah. He didn’t, he didn’t but the two guys in his crew that I spoke to and that I met in 2006 did in that they were all just more or less shut in to a room and said form yourselves into a crew. Now, I don’t know whether my dad picked them or they picked him but he ended up in an all Australian crew apart from himself.
AM: I think that was what was in my mind. How did he end up with six Australians then?
JS: Whether the six of them had got together and we need an engineer he’s the only one left. I have no idea. I don’t know who would. Whether the skipper picked them all or who knows.
AM: We’ll never know.
JS: No. No.
AM: But from there they would have gone on to —
JS: So they started ops, I think late October ’44.
AM: They would have gone to Heavy Conversion Unit.
JS: They did that before. He did that before.
AM: Ok. So then the crew.
JS: If you, if you can stop that I’ll go and get his logbook and —
AM: We’ll have a look at that afterwards.
JS: Yeah. Alright.
AM: Oh, well hang on. So what I’ve got here in my hand is a copy of Jill’s dad’s logbook. Jill’s got the actual logbook. And once they’d crewed up and were actually ready to start operations they moved from 166 Squadron to 153 Squadron. Jill, have you any idea why? Why did they move squadrons?
JS: They were just for, as far as I’m aware they were just actually forming a new squadron, 153.
AM: Right.
JS: And I, I don’t know that it was only 166 that was sent there or whether there was others sent there as well to make up the squadron. I could find that out for you. I only need a phone call to Bill Thomas and he would tell me.
AM: Yeah. No. It’s just interesting.
JS: Yeah.
AM: To wonder. Because obviously I’m looking. I’m looking at [pause] I saw the training and the familiarisation. The circuits and landings. All the rest of it. The night bomber. Fighter affiliation. Diversion and bullseye. Almost all with Pilot Officer Mettam.
JS: Yeah.
AM: As the pilot. But for some of them, and we’re in Halifaxes at this point as well. So, Pilot Officer Mettam. Was he one of the Australians then that became the —
JS: Yes.
AM: The final crew.
JS: He was his pilot.
AM: Right. Ok.
JS: Right the way through.
AM: Yeah.
[pause]
AM: So what we’re looking at now is that in —
JS: Also had to do dual and solo. The flight engineer had to be able to fly.
AM: Right. Yeah.
JS: Himself.
AM: Yeah.
JS: In case anything happened to the skipper, of course.
AM: So then in September 1944 when the training had finished that was when they moved the following month in October ’44 to 153 Squadron. So he was based —
JS: At Scampton.
AM: At Scampton. And did he, what did he tell you, if anything, did he tell you anything about the operations? Any stories. Any — or just what it was like.
JS: He — no. He only told me about coming back with the full load on. But I subsequently found out a couple of stories from the skipper and tail gunner when I met them. The tail gunner was a real comedian. Apparently, when they all got back and went for their bacon and eggs Ned didn’t. He went straight to the parachute shed to chat the girl’s up who were folding up parachutes. But that was what Ned was like. He said they were coming back, I don’t know whether dad was with them or not at the time, from one op and he said they were on fire. He was in the rear turret and there were sparks and all sorts flying and they were coming down and he could hear them jettisoning fuel, and you know and preparing for a nasty. And he got on his mic and said, ‘Are we baling out, skip?’ And Mettam, in his voice, ‘No. That won’t be necessary,’ And brought it down sweet as a nut. He also, then Mett himself did tell me once they were diverted to Manston. I don’t think it was the one that dad was on because I’m sure he would have told me but he overshot at Manston which is very, not like Mett but the problem being that as he overshot he hit a ploughed field and the furrows instead of going the way he was going went the opposite way. So I said, ‘Well, what happened?’ He said, ‘Well, the nose dug in,’ he said, ‘And it flipped over.’ Completely flipped over from the back end over the front end. I said, ‘What the hell did you do?’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘We all got out and scratched our heads, looked at it, laughed and hitched a lift back to Scampton.’
AM: What happened to the plane though upside down in the ploughed field?
JS: That’s right. It wasn’t their problem was it? So, yeah, I mean I did found out a little bit from them two. Dad didn’t speak a great deal apart from he did tell me a few times about the time he came back with a full load on and I think that must have really frightened him. Having to land with a full load that they had been trying to get rid of for a few hours.
AM: Did, did he ever say anything about what he saw as the differences between, because looking at it most of the training was done on Halifaxes and then right towards the end of the training in September they went on to Lancasters.
JS: That’s right.
AM: Did he ever talk about the difference between the two?
JS: No. He only ever spoke about Lancasters.
AM: Right.
JS: He never mentioned Halifaxes at all to me. I think like most of them he was in love with the Lancaster and still are.
AM: And that was the one he did all his operations on.
JS: Yeah.
AM: So. So, I’m looking at the logbook and the first operation was to Essen. And then a couple of Colognes. Nights. A fair mix actually. Mainly, mainly night. Mainly night operations. Cologne. Dortmund. Düren. [unclear] Freiburg. And did he ever say anything about the operations. How he felt about them or —
JS: The only thing he did tell me about was having his bacon and egg and them saying, ‘Flying tonight, sir?’ Which when I watched the “Dambusters” film and having eaten in the mess at Scampton I found it very difficult to actually eat in there. To even go through the doorway. It was just, yeah it sent shivers down my spine.
AM: I think you said, so I’m looking at the operations and we’ve, let me just find the right page. I think in total he did —
JS: I think it was nineteen. I think.
AM: Nineteen.
JS: I think it was nineteen.
AM: Yeah.
JS: I’m trying to find out because they were, they were transferred as a crew down to 582 Pathfinders at Little Staughton in January ’45. Dad was admitted to hospital in Ely in February ’45 and mum did tell me that he, he had done an operation in Pathfinders.
AM: Right.
JS: But there’s no record of it anywhere.
AM: No.
JS: And I think that’s perhaps because he was, didn’t get his logbook filled in and was whipped in to hospital quickly.
AM: Right.
JS: I don’t know.
AM: Because, yeah because on the logbook as you say it shows the last one as number eighteen in January ’45 over the Bay of Biscay. And then you said he was ill.
JS: Yeah.
AM: What, what was, what was wrong? What happened?
JS: He took bad with stomach ulcers and in those days if you had a stomach ulcer they cut you vertically from top to bottom and removed all sorts of things. And he suffered for the rest of his life.
AM: Right.
JS: With duodenal ulcers. I mean today you take a course of antibiotics. I did myself only a few months ago.
AM: How long was he in the hospital? You say he was in the hospital in Ely.
JS: Ely.
AM: Yeah.
JS: In Cambridgeshire. Yeah. Because he was taken from — he was taken from Little Staughton which is Cambridgeshire way isn’t it? And I presume Ely was the biggest hospital.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Looking at the photographs of him just after the war and on honeymoon painfully thin and gaunt. It had obviously, the war and the operation had really taken it out of him.
AM: Well, you know it’s a huge operation.
JS: Yes. Yeah.
AM: And he wasn’t tall to start with. Five foot seven and a half I’ve read on his, on his commencement papers.
JS: Yeah.
AM: So, obviously then he was that was it he didn’t fly again.
JS: He was. Yes. He then went into, he was made to, made to go in the Home Guard.
AM: Because he left. He was actually discharged in May ’45. So then he went in the Home Guard. Any stories about that?
JS: No. He just found it all very amusing and like little boys playing with sticks over their shoulders. Just like Dad’s Army, in fact.
AM: And he would be quite a bit older than them.
JS: Yes.
AM: Well, older than the young ones.
JS: Of course.
AM: Obviously then there’s old.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Old ones as well.
JS: Yeah. And I think he was one of the few that had actually seen action.
AM: Yeah. He would have been twenty eight by then. Which was actually quite old for a flyer.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: So, tell me a bit about your mum and then let’s come back to your mum and dad together. Tell me a little bit about your mum’s early background and where she was born.
JS: Mum was born in Kendal in the Lake District. A country girl. She was one of nine in a small house up there. Left school reasonably early. She was born in 1920.
AM: If she was one of nine did she ever describe to you, talk to you about what sort of house they lived in?
JS: Oh, my God. Yeah.
AM: Go on. Tell us about that.
JS: I’ve been in there.
AM: Oh, you have.
JS: I have.
AM: Describe it for me then.
JS: Just an ordinary [pause] well they were all grey stone built.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Got to be in grey stone in Kendal. Just an ordinary semi with three bedrooms and a downstairs toilet. They did have an indoor toilet and a little bit of a bathroom downstairs off the kitchen. But very small and there was five boys and four girls. And they all had crazy senses of humour. She’s often told me about how they were all tops and tails in bed and many a night the boys would sneak in when they had just gone to sleep, crawl under their bed and just lift the bed up. Frightened them to death. They, they were all she had one brother who she came in one day, she ran in from the garden because she could hear her sister screaming. And her brother had a roped down on to the kitchen table with a carving knife dangling on a rope wrapped around the light fitting swinging. Lowering it like a [laughs]
AM: As you do.
JS: Yeah. And those were the sort of things. They had to make their own fun.
AM: Well, yeah.
JS: And they sort of tortured each other.
AM: The television. Sitting in front of the television.
JS: That’s right.
AM: Where was she in the age range? Somewhere in the middle? Top or bottom?
JS: She was right in the middle, I think.
AM: In the middle. Right.
JS: In fact, the youngest of them mum always said our Lenny was born, she was on the change when she had him. He was the first to die in actual fact. My mum was the last one to die. She died three years ago. She was ninety four.
AM: So she left school at fourteen.
JS: Yeah. And as you do in Kendal you go to work at the K Shoe Factory which later became Clarks. And she was there with all the girls doing piecework. She did piecework all her life and quite happy.
AM: Describe for the tape what piecework is.
JS: Piecework is, you get paid for, per item. So the more items you do per day the more money you get. So it had a great impact on her life because her idea of doing something well was doing it as fast as she possibly could. She went to the gym which she did in her fifties and sixties it was, ‘I’ve finished,’ in ten minutes flat because she’d just tear around like a lunatic. Everything she did was at break neck pace because she was used to being on piecework. She later went on, she carried on for the rest of her life as a machinist. And worked for a number of years making nurses uniforms.
AM: It’s just piecework’s not a phrase you would hear now.
JS: No. No.
AM: And of course —
JS: I don’t know what they’d call it now.
AM: When you said she did piecework.
JS: Yeah. Yeah. It was the only thing.
AM: So, so back to she worked at —
JS: Yeah.
AM: The K Factory.
JS: She worked at Ks. And then the war broke out so she would be about nineteen. Nineteen and a bit. They were obviously stopped from making shoes into more useful footwear and she ended up on flying boots for the RAF. And she told me how as the flying boots went along the production line and they all did their little bit to them and all the girls to relieve the boredom and because they felt they had to, no. They wanted to. Slipped little notes in the boots as they went along in front of them. Little slips of paper. You know, “God bless the RAF.” “Good luck.” “Stay safe.” All that sort of thing.
AM: Nowadays it would be have my mobile number.
JS: Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So then after a while there she was all her brothers and sisters were doing their bit in various places, she was sent down to Manchester to work in the munitions factory in Trafford Park. And while she —
AM: Did she have a choice of what war work she did?
JS: No. No. She was just —
AM: Quite the opposite. That’s where she was sent.
JS: She got a notice that’s where she was going and that’s where she went. And then once she was sent there of course there was a little bit of room left in the home where she was brought up so her mother, my grandma then had to take in evacuee children. She had two little boys. One didn’t last too long. And then the second one was from the North East. A pale sickly child and of course nice fresh air and good food as far as, well to what he’d been used to his parents came to visit him and didn’t recognise him. So, yeah mum’s now in, I think it was AV Roe she was in. It was, she was making parts for Lancaster bombers and she was doing something with a bit of metal. I don’t know what it was and in came a load of airmen and dad was amongst them. They were obviously all engineers. As part of the training learning how it was all put together and their eyes met over, I don’t know whether it was a lathe or something like that and that was that. they started going out together. And they got engaged. He sent her money to go and get a second hand ring somewhere. He wouldn’t get married until after the war. She used to go home at weekends, I think. Now and again. And her sister, my auntie did tell me that whenever she saw dad by this time was on ops and whenever she got up in the morning and read the newspaper and it said a thousand bomber raid over so and so again last night. Apparently, the colour just drained from her face and she wouldn’t eat her breakfast and couldn’t do anything. And they all left her alone until she got a telegram because dad always sent her a telegram when he, as soon as he got back. After he’d his bacon and eggs I suspect. And as soon as she got the telegram she was alright. But he wouldn’t get married ‘til the war was over. And his war was over when he got [pause] well when he came back of the Home Guard I suppose after he’d been discharged from the RAF.
AM: You were telling me some stories about your mum. So when she’d moved to Trafford and was working at the AV Roe factory obviously she would end up in digs.
JS: Oh yes. That was the only thing she would ever spoke about. I mean she never spoke about the work or the girls or anything. It was just the horrible digs she was put in and there and it was bed bugs and fleas and it was filthy dirty and icy cold. And she couldn’t wait to go home at weekends. She hated it and she was lonely and she was a very timid soul. A very nervous person. You know to be taken from her nice comfortable country existence like that to be sent to a big city to have to do that and put up with all the bombing and everything else. I remember when it was D-Day she said, she said they knew it was brewing and that morning she said all through the night they’d heard aircraft going over. She said it was just a constant drone all night long and they knew that something was, was happening. And that morning the hooter went in the factory, Everybody to the canteen,’ and they all lined up in the canteen and the guy said to them, ‘Let’s just say a prayer for the lads. This is it. This is D-Day,’ and she said they all just you know had a few minutes for the, for the boys.
AM: Sorry that gulp was me sipping water. So then obviously you said he sent this telegram every time he got back.
JS: Every time. Yeah.
AM: From ops. I’m just trying to piece together in my mind so she’s still there working when he was in hospital in Ely as well.
JS: Yes. She must have been.
AM: She must have been, mustn’t she?
JS: She must have been. Yeah.
AM: And then come the end of the war he’s in the Home Guard.
JS: Yes.
AM: Well, not the end. From his discharge which was in May ’45.
JS: Yes. He went into the Home Guard.
AM: He’s in the Home Guard.
JS: In the Manchester area again, I presume. I don’t know for sure but I presume it was in his home town. I think it was in Salford.
AM: And she would still be in Trafford Park or would she have moved back up to Kendal.
JS: I have no idea when she moved back. I’ve no idea.
AM: But obviously they’d got engaged by then so —
JS: It was all go then. Yeah.
AM: So when did they get married? ‘ish?
JS: Well, I was born in ’49 and I think they’d been married two to three years before they had me. 18th of April err 27th of April.
AM: Where did they end up living?
JS: She moved down to Salford to be with him. They moved in a, oh it was an awful house. I can remember it even as a kid. It was four back to backs next door to the school. And when it rained we had buckets everywhere. It was cold. It was damp. The toilet was a hundred yards away in a block with three others to go with the other three houses that were back to back with.
AM: Just explain what back to back, what you mean by back to back.
JS: Well, these were, it was two semis and then attached to them at the back of them was another two semis. So it was a square block of four properties.
AM: And that means that the windows were only on the front because the —
JS: That’s right.
AM: Back wall is the dividing wall.
JS: Two walls.
AM: Between the two properties.
JS: Two walls.
AM: Which is why we call them back to back.
JS: That’s right.
AM: It’s like four in a square as you say, isn’t it?
JS: Yeah. Yeah. And torn up newspaper for loo roll. I can remember my mum always going mad that, ‘Mrs Garforth, next door has been using our toilet again. I can tell.’ [laughs]
AM: So the toilet was at the end of the —
JS: The toilets were along the side. So [pause] let me see. You’ve got the four houses there.
AM: You’ve got your four houses in a square.
JS: Back to back.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And there’s a bit of a garden here and the road there.
AM: Right. So in the front of each house.
JS: And there.
AM: There was a garden but then at the side of them —
JS: No, there wasn’t. No.
AM: No.
JS: The front of that house and this one were on the, on the road.
AM: Oh right. Ok.
JS: Right. This was ours. This one here. And the front door was here.
AM: Right.
JS: So it was on the corner and was that one. And the toilets were there.
AM: Right.
JS: Difficult to explain.
AM: And were there four separate toilets then?
JS: And so we had to go from, yeah.
AM: Ok.
JS: In a row. So we had to run from here.
AM: But you were further away.
JS: The furthest away.
AM: Because you were furthest away house from there really.
JS: Yes. That’s right.
AM: From the toilets.
JS: And that was Mrs Garforth’s. And our toilet was quite handy for her [laughs] And my primary school was here.
AM: Right.
JS: The school yard gate was there.
AM: Right.
JS: So whenever they couldn’t find me as a two year old I was in the school yard playing with the kids. And the teachers knew me and they’d take me in to class with them at two and three years old.
AM: I’m trying to think. 1949. Would rationing still be on?
JS: Yes.
AM: It would, wouldn’t it, then. So no sweets or anything like that.
JS: Oh no. No. No. You were lucky if you had clothes on your back. Times were really hard. Tin bath in front of the fire.
AM: Yeah. Once a week.
JS: By this time my dad was working at the power station. At Agecroft Power Station. And he used to go off on his bike. I don’t know whether you’ve heard of Agecroft Brew, but it’s about one in one. Cycle down there to do his stint at the power station and then have to cycle all the way home and many a time we didn’t see him. I didn’t see him for days on end because he’d go to work and then it was can you do some overtime? So he’d go straight into overtime and then during the overtime there’d be a breakdown so he could be there for forty eight hours. And there was no phones or anything.
AM: No.
JS: He’d go off to work and we really didn’t know when he was coming back.
AM: Did your mum work? Or was your mum at home.
JS: Mum was working full time as a machinist. Yeah.
AM: Oh, you said she worked her whole life [unclear] Yeah.
JS: Yeah. So the next door neighbour was the caretaker of the primary school that I’ve just described and they became great friends. And she was the grandma that I never had was Auntie Nellie. She babysat so that they could both go to work. She was a wise old soul. She virtually brought me up.
AM: So how long did you live in in those houses?
JS: We lived there until I was about seven.
AM: Right.
JS: And then we thought we’d hit the big time because we were granted a council house a couple of miles away. And I mean it was the business, you know. We’d made the big time.
AM: Indoor bathroom. Indoor loo.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Nice big garden. It was in a state and dad set to and he made it lovely. It was his pride and joy. But in those days the rent man came on a Friday or whatever it was. You had to pay him in cash. No pets. You did as you were told else you were out. No benefits. No nothing in those days.
AM: No. Well yeah. Its, I’m just trying to think what year National Health came in. ’50. I can’t think.
JS: I think there was national health but there was no benefits as such.
AM: No.
JS: I mean you were privileged if you got a council house and you made sure you paid your rent. And you had to be, you had to be a good upstanding family with a full time job and able to afford the rent. There was no housing benefit or anything. If you couldn’t afford the rent you couldn’t have a council house. Times are different now.
AM: So then you grew up.
JS: I grew up.
AM: Got married. Moved away.
JS: Yeah.
AM: Your dad carried on working. I think you said your dad died.
JS: He carried on working. He worked hard all his life. Yeah. And then he had a heart attack in ’73. Died in ’73. He was only fifty five. It should never have happened.
AM: So quite young.
JS: Never have happened.
AM: Relatively speaking.
JS: I mean in this day and age they’d have put a stent in and he’d have been alright.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Again. And the care was dreadful. Within ten days his back was covered in bed sores. I didn’t believe him. I thought he was joking. Then he leaned over and I saw his back. It was raw. Absolutely blistered from top to bottom.
AM: It’s just how things have changed. When you do look back at something like that it makes you realise how much things have changed.
JS: I saw him the night before he died and he was fine. He’d watched the Cup Final. Manchester United. He was made up, buzzing. ‘Look at, they’ve moved me up here.’ ‘Well, that shows you’re getting better. Look. Your charts back.’ ‘Yeah. Ok.’ And then I got home and I got a phone call 6 o’clock the next morning, ‘It’s the hospital here.’ I said, ‘Is it my dad?’ ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘Is he dead?’ She said, ‘Yeah. There’s nothing you can do. We’ve told your mum on the phone to get down there as soon as you can and then come here at 9 o’clock for his things.’ Well, by the time we got to my mum’s house she was running up and down the stairs just completely hysterical. They just told her over the phone and she was on her own. And we got there and he was still in his bed with the curtains around. Oh, there’s a bag with his things in. Sign for it. Sign for a post mortem. Come back tomorrow.’ And my husband said, ‘No. You’re not doing a post mortem.’ ‘But we’re — ’ He said, ' No. He’s dead. Peggy, don’t sign.’ I’ve never seen my husband be like that before. It was quite barbaric really. He didn’t deserve it. He worked long and hard all his life. He had a really tough life.
AM: So, tell me a little bit now about you and afterwards and 153 Squadron and and your relationship and what you do.
JS: Yeah. Well, because of dad’s discharge from the RAF Mett, his skipper was his hero and dad was all set for going back to Australia with him after the war. But of course because he was hospitalised and everything he lost touch with them all. And he tried ‘til the day he died to find them all but they were all Australian and there was no internet and phones or anything in those days. And he spent hours in the library but he wasn’t able to come up with anything. And on and off from thereafter I kept having a dabble myself and then the internet struck up and in 2006 I got hold of a guy who was on the internet, down as a representative for 153 squadron. And his phone number was there so I rang him and I said, ‘Is that Bill Thomas?’ He said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘153 Squadron.’ He said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘My dad was with 153 Squadron.’ And he said, ‘Just a minute. What was his name?’ And I told him and he said, ‘That’s right. Came down from Kirmington. 166.’ I said, ‘Yeah, that’s right.’ He said, ‘Yeah. His skipper was Hal Mettam.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ ‘Hang on a minute,’ he said, ‘I’ve got Mett’s phone number here. Do you want it?’ Well, I couldn’t believe it. I really couldn’t believe it. I sat on it for two or three hours before I rang him and he, he was quite curt with me when I, when I rang. He was a bit off guard. He was moving house. He was about to eat his dinner and that was that and I put the phone down. Well, he put the phone down. And I thought well at least I’ve spoken to the guy and I set to and I wrote him a letter. Enclosed a few photographs and my contact details and I stuck it in the post. I got home from the work the following night and this Bill Thomas called me again. He said, ‘How did you get on speaking to Mett?’ So I said, ‘Well, it was a bit of a weird conversation really.’ He said, ‘Yeah. He was a bit aloof.’ He said, ‘I’ve got another one for you.’ I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘Another member of his crew.’ I said, ‘Oh, go on then.’ ‘Ned Kennedy, his tail gunner.’ I said, ‘Yeah. That’s right.’ He said, ‘He lives in Scarborough.’ I said, ‘Oh wow.’ And he gave me the phone number. I said, ‘Scarborough?’ He said, ‘Yeah. Scarborough, New South Wales.’ I said, ‘Oh right. Ok.’ So I waited ‘til the early hours of the morning and I thought right I shall ring now, because of the time difference. A little lady answered the phone and she put me on to Ned and he said, ‘Hello.’ I said, ‘Is that Ned Kennedy, 153 Squadron?’ ‘Yes. ‘I said, ‘Do you remember your flight engineer?’ He said, ‘Frank. Yes.’ I said, ‘Well, I’m Frank’s daughter.’ ‘Well, bugger me,’ he said in a broad Australian accent. He said, ‘You sound just like your dad. I can hear him now saying “Want a cup of tea, skip?”’ So, cutting a long story short I got home again the next night and lo and behold there was an email from Mett, the skipper which took me by surprise. Apologising and saying yes he did remember and everything. And, and we kept in touch. And in May ‘07 Mett came to the reunion. I went to the first reunion. And Ned, very sick, in a wheelchair got on a plane and came over from Australia and we all met up at the reunion and there wasn’t a dry house in the house.
AM: Where was it? Where was the reunion?
JS: It was at the Holiday Inn in Lincoln. Prior to that they had them at another hotel in Lincoln and we had it then at that hotel for three or four years and I started to get involved. And now we have it at the Bentley.
AM: So, how did you get involved in doing more?
JS: I got involved, particularly. There was one year we went and one of our vets was taken poorly the day before as happens because they’re all getting elderly and said he couldn’t make it and the staff at the hotel were insisting we paid for his room. And the secretary at the time was, ‘Oh. Ok then. Yes.’ And started to write a cheque. And they were also insisting that in future years all these veterans must be insured in case they couldn’t come. And being the rubber gob that I am stuck my two penneth in and said, ‘No. You are not being paid. You can’t tell me you did not sell that room last night.’ ‘Well um —' I said, ‘No,’ I said, ‘There’s no way you’re having money out of us,’ I said, ‘These guys are veterans. They’re OAPs,’ you know, ‘Stop taking the mick,’ I said, ‘And regards insurance you can stick it.’ And they were sort of oooh. And then one or two people said, ‘Good on you, Jill.’ De de de de de de. Bill Thomas, in those days used to write a newsletter three times a year handscript and send it out to people. I said, ‘I’ll type that out for you Bill if you like.’ ‘Oh, will you?’ And it just sort of snowballed from there. I was elected to take over from madam who was saying yes to everything. And I started typing the newsletters for him and adding a little bit and then it got to the stage where I was actually doing them. And then arranging they decided after that particular incident to move hotels for the reunions. And we moved and I took over the bookings of that and then, you know as the vets have sort of either died or not been able to, to keep up Bill Thomas who was the secretary decided we should have an honorary secretary, an honorary treasurer and what have you. The next generation down. So that was how I got the post of an hon sec.
AM: That was you. So do you still have an annual reunion?
JS: Yes. We had it last month.
AM: How many Second World War veterans have you still got?
JS: Well, on the books we’ve got [pause] about half a dozen or so. Maybe more.
AM: Yeah.
JS: But we only had three show up this year. In fact one of them with his family came over from Majorca. He lives in Majorca now and he comes quite often. He’s a case is Jack, er the year before we went to the BBMF and we were having a look around and he got in the Lanc and he was sat in the pilot’s seat. He was a pilot. He’s the only pilot we’ve got left. He sat in the pilot’s seat and as we were walking away he was walking with his two sticks. I said, ‘Did you enjoy that, Jack?’ He said, ‘Aye. But I couldn’t remember where the undercarriage switch was.’ He’s got a wicked sense of humour. A very nice chap. The other one is Taf Owen. He did a Manna drop.
AM: Aneurin.
JS: Hmm?
AM: He’s called Aneurin.
JS: Yeah. We all call him Taf. Yeah. He did Manna drops. He’s our president. And Les Jenkin. Les [pause] Oh God. I forget his surname now.
AM: I’ll find out off you after if they’ve all been interviewed.
JS: Yes. Yes. He has. Les. Oh. my goodness. Well, his daughter’s treasurer anyway.
AM: Yeah.
JS: So —
AM: Tell me a little bit about the research you’ve been doing into a specific Lancaster.
JS: This specific Lancaster.
[recording paused]
AM: Well, tell me. So go on. So tell me about the plane.
JS: Right. Right. As part of my role as hon sec I decided one year a few years ago that we should get a bit more high tech and develop a webpage and a Facebook page. So I started them off and we’ve had all sorts of contacts come in via both. We’ve picked up a lot of new members. Particularly this last year. I think it’s because a lot of people going into their genealogy and stuff now. And things are beginning to tie up. Coincidences are happening. And, you know we had a couple meet up at the reunions whose fathers were, flew together and that sort of thing and it’s been, it’s almost spooky at times. Anyway, sometime last year via our webpage I got an enquiry. I was contacted by a guy in Germany called Roland. ‘I have some pieces of an aircraft. One of your aircraft from 153 Squadron. Would you like them? I found them in the forest.’ And he gave me the number of the aircraft. He’d done a little bit of research himself so, ‘Yes please.’ So arrived a box full of pieces.
AM: And I’m looking at —
JS: Yeah.
AM: Exactly that.
JS: Yeah.
AM: A box full of pieces.
JS: Yeah.
AM: From, blimey.
JS: They smell weird.
AM: I will take a photograph.
JS: Yeah. Well, I’ve got. I did take some photographs. Somebody reckoned that that particular, we thought that was leather but he was thinking it was part of the self-sealing liner for a fuel tank.
AM: Ok.
JS: Anyway, after a bit of research I discovered that this particular aircraft, it went down in March ’45. It was on a raid to Nuremburg with a crew and it was their first operation. And it was fully loaded with a four thousand pounder and fourteen hundred and seventy incendiaries and it was hit by a night fighter. It was virtually vapourised. But this gentleman in Germany has done a lot of research. He’s been and found their graves. He’s sent me all the information he’s got plus photographs of the crash site plus a report from the local mayor about the incident which I’ve had translated. And I’ve managed to find relatives of [pause] how many members of the crew now? I think it’s, well it’s four lots of relatives I think I’ve managed to contact who’ve become members. Yes. There we are. One. Two. Three. Four lots. So, that is still ongoing. We, at our AGM discussed it, wondering what to do with it all and seeing as the pieces are so small first refusal on the pieces has been to relatives or descendants of any of that crew. And the rest we thought we would take the most convenient bits and put them in a little presentation box. A glass fronted thing with a document which I’m trying to pull together of what exactly happened to it and give it to them at the Scampton Heritage Centre to put with the other 153 stuff that they’ve got there. That’s as it is at the moment. I’ve made lots of notes but we’ve not put a document together and we’ve not had a presentation.
AM: And did, did you say your dad had flown in that plane?
JS: Yeah. Yeah. And part of my research shows that my father flew in that, in that particular aircraft on one occasion. I think it, did I say it was October ’44 and it went down in March ’45. There’s also Tom Tobin who you have on your records. It was his, his favourite aircraft. He did about fourteen ops in it before it went down.
AM: But not that one.
JS: I’m in touch, regular contact with his daughter in Australia. A Douglas McCourt also flew in it on March the 2nd. I’m in contact with his son in South Africa. And Doug is ninety five and still going strong. And there is another. You have Peter Baxter’s memoirs on record. His son, Mike Baxter is in our Association because his father was the engineering officer for 153 and he actually flew in it as well. And he says in his memoirs, “We flew in Lancaster W-William. Appropriately numbered with my initials PB642 Peter Baxter.” So yes. It’s quite incredible really tying it all together. We’ve got a couple of photographs of members of the crew. We’re still trying to find more. As I say I’m still pulling it all together.
AM: Those pictures of the graves at the back.
JS: These are pictures of the graves.
AM: Where are the graves?
JS: At —
AM: Durnbach.
JS: Durnbach War Cemetery. And this is where he found the pieces. These are photographs of where he actually found the pieces of the aircraft.
AM: Given that there were that many, I mean you describe it as virtually vapourised.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Given that there were that many incendiaries on them.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: It sort of makes you wonder.
JS: Yeah. Tiny little pieces.
AM: What went in the graves.
JS: According to, according to the mayor in his report he says [pause] where is it? [unclear] Yeah. That, that’s what Tom [pause] Tom Tobin was in it. Flew fourteen ops in it or something. I’m just —
[pause – pages turning]
AM: Yeah. it’s, it, it is absolutely fascinating to look at the, to look at the photographs of where he dug the pieces up from.
JS: Yeah.
AM: It actually looks like wood smell.
JS: It is.
AM: It’s come down in woods.
JS: I’ve got the actual crash site and a map with it plotted on it. As I say, I’ve really got to bring all this together.
AM: Yeah.
JS: That’s my ongoing project at the moment.
AM: Yeah. but although you describe them as quite small pieces, which they are there’s quite a lot of it.
JS: Yeah.
AM: There’s a whole box of it.
JS: Well, there’s two boxes arrived. I mean one box arrived within days. And another one a few weeks later.
AM: How did he know?
JS: I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean most of that information in there in the graves and everything all tallies up and he, there’s a lot of Germans now doing this.
AM: Oh yeah.
JS: With metal detectors.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And then following it up and researching it.
AM: Yeah.
JS: And that’s what he does a s a hobby etcetera. But I found it particular spooky when I opened the box. It was just a cardboard box. It had leaves and mud and twigs and things in it as well. And the smell as I opened the box and as I touched a piece and thinking dad’s flown in that.
AM: Yeah.
JS: We just, we both just stood there and we actually shivered.
AM: A little shiver.
JS: There’s one place. Is it that page?
AM: Your dad could have probably told you.
JS: Yeah.
AM: What they were and where they were from.
JS: Like this one we worked out that this piece we worked out at the AGM that that’s got to be part of the one of the seats because they’re screws rather than rivets. Right. So it would have been screwed into the wood.
AM: So I’m looking at a piece of metal that’s maybe eight inches long.
JS: Yeah. And you see that’s the interior colour paint.
AM: And maybe about, yeah, about three quarters of an inch wide. You can see the green paint on it and the one, two, three, four, five, six screws with the screw heads. And on the other side of the metal where the screws have gone through it, the whatever it was and it looks like some sort of leather seat cover.
JS: That would have been a washer of some sort on the other side with it being screwed you see.
AM: It’s, I will take some photographs of this. It’s fascinating.
JS: As I say we decided in our infinite wisdom that that would be part of a seat.
AM: Yeah.
JS: Because it will have been screwed to something wooden which would be a frame for a seat.
AM: Yeah.
JS: As opposed to rivets in, in other bits, you see.
AM: Crikey. So we’re looking at a Lancaster with rivets through it here and I wish I could bring Rosie the riveter in. I’ll tell Jill about Rosie the riveter later.
JS: That would be interesting. You know they’re quite heavy.
AM: It is absolutely fascinating.
JS: Yeah.
AM: To look at and think what, what they are and what they were
JS: We’ve scoured them all to try and find numbers on them but you can, you can feel the different metals. [unclear] probably a bit of shrapnel judging by the weight of that.
AM: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s absolutely fascinating looking at all these. I’m going to switch the tape off now and then take some photographs.
JS: When it first arrived —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jill Saunders
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASaundersJ170609
Format
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00:53:45 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Second generation
Description
An account of the resource
Jill Saunders’s father Frank Simon was born in Salford in 1917. He served an apprenticeship as a fitter before joining A.V. Roe. He had joined the RAF volunteer reserve but as he was in a reserved occupation, he was only called up in 1944. He trained at St Athan as a flight engineer and was subsequently posted to 166 Squadron, based at RAF Kirmington, in October 1944. The remainder of his crew were all Australians. They were one of the crews sent to RAF Scampton to form 153 Squadron. Altogether, Frank flew 19 operations before his crew were transferred to the Pathfinders at RAF Little Straughton in January 1945. However, he became ill and was hospitalised in February 1945. It was while working at A.V. Roe that Frank met his future wife, Peggy. She was born in Kendal in 1920 and had worked at a shoe factory before being conscripted to a munitions factory in Manchester. They married after the war. Frank worked at a power station until his death at the age of 55 in 1973. Peggy lived into her 90s.
In about 2006, Jill made contact with the 153 Squadron Association and through it, with two of Frank’s former crew. She became involved in the running of the Association and remains Honorary Secretary.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Manchester
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
Contributor
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Ian Whapplington
Julie Williams
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
153 Squadron
166 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
civil defence
final resting place
flight engineer
Home Guard
Lancaster
love and romance
RAF Kirmington
RAF Scampton
RAF St Athan
shot down
training
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Trapp, Sylvia
Sylvia Vera Trapp
S V Trapp
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Sylvia Trapp (nee Needham) (b. 1922, 488420 Royal Air Force) and four photographs. She served as a wireless operator in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force at RAF Waddington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sylvia Trapp and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Trapp, SV
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: Ok, so today is Tuesday the 5th of April and this is Annie Moody for the International Bomber Command Centre and today I am with Sylvia Trapp and we are at Sylvia’s home in Mansfield. And Sylvia was a WAAF so we are going to get Sylvia’s story now. And just to start, no, go.
ST: I wasn’t Trapp until the end of the war.
AM: Right, I’ll get your maiden, well, right, you tell me then if we start off with your maiden name.
ST: Needham.
AM: Leedham.
ST: Needham.
AM: Needham. Needham. Ok. And we’ve already got your date of birth so we know that you are ninety four.
ST: Ninety four.
AM: Ninety four and can you tell me where you were born, Sylvia?
ST: I was born in Mansfield, 216 Victoria Street. Mansfield.
AM: Right, there we are. What did your parents do?
ST: My dad was a miner. My mum, before she was married, worked at the Lawn Mills.
AM: Right. And what, did you have brothers or sisters?
ST: I’ve got, I had two brothers and two sisters. My brother, John Thomas was the oldest, and he worked at Hermitage Hosiery factory, on Hermitage Lane. And my next brother Fred, he worked, he was a butcher, [unclear] the butcher on Regents Street and my sister Eirene she worked at the Hermitage Hosiery factory and me, I worked, oh, I went, Hosiery Mills, I was in the sales office [unclear]. But before, the war started, I worked at the Quartex, up Sutton Road, a big hosiery mills that was owned by Germans. And when the war started, they turned it into a munition place.
AM: Right.
ST: And that’s where I worked, yeah.
Am: Where did you go to school?
ST: I went to Moor Lane School and then up to High Oakham School.
AM: And how old would you be when you left?
ST: How old, fifteen when I left.
AM: Fifteen?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Right.
ST: Then I went to work at the hosiery mills.
AM: Yeah. What did you do there?
ST: I was in the quality control.
AM: Right. Checking the stockings.
ST: No, jumpers.
AM: Oh, it was jumpers. Alright.
ST: And I didn’t tell you, the Germans, when the munition came to the Quartex, the Germans were taken away, the boss was taken away and they were on the way to being deported to Canada and the boat was sunk by a U-boat. So after that
AM: But you were there from being fifteen?
ST: I’m trying to think, I
AM: Cause
ST: Yes, I worked at the Quartex from being fifteen. Then when I grew up to twenty I, my brothers had been called up, Tom went first, then Fred, then my sister went and she went into the Air Force and I asked if I could go into the Air Force and they wouldn’t let me. But I did. They wouldn’t let me join my sister where she was, they kept us apart and I went into the Air Force and we had to meet, we had to meet this officer on Nottingham Station and there was about ten of us, all met on the station and they took us down to Innsworth in Gloucester and then we did the basic training and we had to sit these written exams, and everybody was being allocated and then he told me to stand on one side and there was about six of us had to stand on one side, and we kept wandering, what on earth are we going to do? Anyway he came to us and he says, I’ve chosen you because I think I can rely on you. As you know, we are losing men and they are getting very short, and I’m going to put you onto a man’s job, he says, and I put my faith in you, that you will be able to do it. Then we were allocated to, I was sent to Bottesford, was sent to Bottesford and we, no, no, that’s wrong, I was, we were sent to Compton Bassett and we learned all about radio, how to send messages and code words and things like that and we did about five weeks there and then went up to Blackpool to learn the Morse code and I was there from, I can’t remember how long I was there but we learned the Morse code and how to print, you know, the messages and what have ye and after that I was sent to Bottesford and from Bottesford I stayed there for a while and then I was moved to Waddington.
US: You know Bottesford, was that the Bomber Command base? Were you actually on a base?
ST: Yeah. Isn’t it a base now?
US: Bottesford, no, it’s just fields. So, you were actually sent to Bottesford?
ST: Yes.
US: As a wireless
ST: Wireless operator.
US: Operator.
ST: Yeah. You know, Bottesford is not on the map now, then?
US: Well, Bottesford is on the map, but it’s not a Bomber Command base, it’s not an RAF base anymore.
ST: Oh, ok.
US: So, what happened when you got to Bottesford, obviously there were Lancasters or Stirling bombers flying from there.
ST: Ah, there were Stirling, yeah.
US: Stirling. Yeah.
ST: There weren’t Lancasters and then we were sent to Waddington and I think that was, was that an Australian base? I can’t remember. There were Australians.
US: 44 Squadron. Yeah. There could have been Australians there.
ST: Anyway I was there and
AM: Can I ask you about the training. You know when you said you did the training, and first on the radios and the Morse code, what was it like doing that?
ST: Oh, you know, I was a bit, I was really scared going into the Air Force. I’ve never been away from home before in my life and anyway, it was, no, I thought I was determined to prove to him that I could do it so I
AM: I’m on this job.
ST: Yeah. Yeah, I thought, if they can do it, we can do it, sort of thing.
AM: So, what was it like, how did you start to learn how to, the wireless?
ST: Wait, that was down in Compton Bassett.
AM: Compton Bassett, yeah.
ST: Yeah, no, we had classes, we had to march to classes, used to play these [unclear] marches, you know, we marched to class and but they were mixed classes, mixed, and yeah, we, they taught us how to sort radios out and
AM: What do you mean by sort them out? You mean, built them into bits and put them back together?
ST: Yeah, if there was any wires lose to solder them on, you know, we were taught all that and then, I think I can’t remember how long we were there but it must have been weeks. And then once we were able to do that, they sent us up to Blackpool and
AM: Where did you stay in Blackpool? In digs?
ST: Private digs, you know, like boarding houses and she was very strict, we had to be in at ten o’clock at night. Well, you know the ballroom where we used to go dancing and what [unclear] and there was every nationality in the world, out of Europe and everywhere and so
AM: What did you get up to then?
ST: So, we used to take it in turns to, if anybody didn’t go they would unlatch the window down, one of the windows so we would get into the window [laughs] and, yeah, she was very strict she was. But I guess she had to be, you know
AM: Were you all girls in your boarding house?
ST: Yeah, we were all girls. Yes.
AM: What was it, what was the ball dancing like then?
ST: Oh, it was marvellous, you had that many partners when you were dancing, you know. You never did a dance with one person, you were excused and then next one.
AM: They cut in all the time.
ST: Oh, we had a lovely time there, yeah.
AM: What did you, did you have to go in uniform or could you put a dress on?
ST: No, I went in uniform.
AM: In uniform. Smart girls in uniform.
ST: Yeah. I don’t think, I don’t think we were allowed to go in
AM: I don’t know
ST: I can’t remember that. Or perhaps I didn’t have any [layghs]
AM: Maybe not. Did you have to do marching up and down the front? I know the men did.
ST: Yeah, that’s right, yeah. [unclear] uniform. Yeah, we had a great time there.
AM: And you said this was the first time you had been away from home as well.
ST: Yeah. When I was down in Gloucester, I wasn’t the only one who cried all time [laughs] but you could hear everybody crying. You know, cause I suppose we all lived in the same boat and. But then, after Blackpool, I really enjoyed that and I, when we passed our, we had to sit these exams and pass them and
AM: Was it, when you said sitting the exams, was it a written exam or did you have to literally put a radio together and
ST: Oh, we did that, yes. After we’d been taught, we did that, yes. We had to do that. It sort of got into me then, you know, I knew I’d got to do this sort of thing though. That was great.
AM: Did anybody not manage it? Could you not
ST: Yeah, yeah, quite a lot, yeah.
AM: So what happened to them?
ST: They were put to other jobs. Maybe in the cook house or driving or something like that. Yeah, they [unclear] dropped down, yeah. After we, when we got to Blackpool, we learned the Morse, you know, it was, we were there way to go at eight o’clock in the morning, we’d have Morse all day, it was headphones on and in fact when we used to go home on the train, every time I passed a station, I’d been doing it in Morse. I must admit, I began to enjoy life after that, yeah. And then, after, Bottesford, I guess, then Waddington, and then, oh, I know, then I was in the air traffic control, you know, in the air traffic [unclear]
AM: At Waddington.
ST: And there was Canadians, they were all Canadians and the sergeant Canadian in charge said to me one day, I’d like you to come with me, as you are going to learn something new today so we went into this great, this hangar, you know how big hangars are, and they’d fixed up, there was sort of a line, oh, on the floor was a big map of Newark and Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire and the rivers were all in like silver foil and the bush, the trees, they’d made like little trees, so that you looked at the land from up there sort of thing and they’d got this wire going along and this machine, supposed to be the aircraft I should think
AM: In the air.
ST: And as it went over the, they were able to see what they were bombing, if you know, you could [unclear]
AM: Like a bird’s-eye view.
ST: Yes. That’s right, yeah. And that was interesting but there were all aircrew and me and this sergeant, I was, I think I was scared, you know, petrified, cause he asked me to switch something on and I couldn’t move, where is it? I forgot. And, because he’d showed me but I forgot and then this nice young Scottish man came and he did it for me.
AM: I’ll see about the Scottish man in a minute. Just, let’s go back to the beginning of Waddington. How did, so you’ve done your radio training, you’ve done your Morse training, how did they then decide where they were going to send you? Did you just, were you just told where you were going?
ST: We were just told, yeah.
AM: So you were told Waddington.
ST: Yeah.
AM: How did you get to Waddington then?
ST: Do you know, I can’t remember.
AM: No?
ST: I guess they took as there, yeah.
AM: Yeah? And what was it like when you got there? What did you think when you saw it? How did it look like?
ST: Strange. We had to go up a spiral staircase to, you know, up into the air traffic control [unclear].
US: So you operated out of the control tower?
ST: Yeah.
US: Were you actually talking to the bomber crews?
ST: No, no, no. They, as I say, they are all Canadians and
AM: Yeah, describe what you actually did in the tower.
ST: What we did, I just sat at this table with earphones on and received messages and sent messages.
AM: Received them from where? From whom?
ST: From the aircraft.
AM: From the aircraft.
US: So you didn’t [unclear] Morse code?
AM: So you’re receiving the message in Morse
ST: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And you’re translating it and
ST: I didn’t translate it, I just passed it on.
AM: No. You just passed it on. By radio.
ST: Well, to the sergeant in the room. The sergeant and officers in the room. Mostly it was the sergeant that dealt with us and
US: So the aircraft would send a message back to Waddington in Morse
ST: I would take it down
US: So and the radio operator in the plane is tapping out a message in Morse, which you receive and then it’s passed on to be deciphered. So [unclear] plane
AM: So, did you know what the messages were saying or did you not have time to even think about that?
ST: Not a clue
AM: How long were your shifts? What were the shifts like?
ST: Eight till four. Four till midnight. Midnight till eight.
AM: And what were your digs like?
ST: Oh, we were in a hut, there was about, I don’t’ know, about ten of us I think in this hut, yeah.
AM: All girls.
ST: We had our own bed space and our little cabinet, you know. Yeah.
AM: And what about eating. Where did you eat? Did you eat with the men or were you kept separate?
ST: We were quite good, we were separate, you know when all the ground crew went in, we went separate and we seemed to get nicer meals [laughs].
AM: How many of you would there be in comparison to the men? Ish.
ST: Gosh, well, up in the air traffic control there were just two of us and about six men.
AM: Right.
ST: And I never met anybody else after that, you know, we just, unless you went to the dance at night, when I was on the right shift, we would go to the dance.
AM: Right. Where was the dance?
ST: In the
AM: On the base.
ST: On the base. Yes.
AM: On the base. So, I imagine there were a lot more men than women at the dance.
ST: Oh, hundreds more, yeah.
AM: What was that like?
ST: [unclear] Four of us to the whole base sort of thing.
AM: What was that?
ST: There was the cooks [unclear] everybody.
AM: Yeah. I bet you danced off your feet, weren’t you?
ST: Well, it was lovely, yeah.
AM: It was lovely [laughs].
ST: I had never been to a dancing. [laughs]
AM: And you mentioned to me that you’d actually been in an aircraft, what
ST: We used to climb in to see if, when they came back, if we had to go and check the radio, see that it was [unclear]
AM: When you say we, you girls from the control tower.
ST: Yes. We went, yeah.
AM: So, what was that like then, climbing into a plane [unclear]?
ST: There were no steps, you know, we had, I don’t how I got in, I used to hang onto things that somebody had thrown in [laughs]. I was only about seven stone seven when, you know, I was only little and I could never manage up there. Anyway it was fun and we had fun.
AM: You had fun. So tell me about this Scottish person then.
ST: Oh well, yeah.
AM: From the beginning.
ST: Oh well, we were, oh I told you, we watched this thing work and take pictures
AM: Ok, the bird’s-eye view of the map
ST: And then we were dismissed and we went to the naffy and the sergeant went into the naffy and then this nice young airman came in and said, come and sit with me, would you like a coffee? And I said yes please and he says, come and sit over here with me and that was the beginning of romance [laughs], yeah. We went on the bus into Lincoln and he proposed to me and I bought a ring there and everything. We went to the jewellers and there were no rings there for me, only about three earrings in the whole shop [laughs] but there were a lot
AM: How long did this romance last before you were married? Because he would be going on operations all this time.
ST: Oh yeah.
US: What was his name, Sylvia?
ST: I only knew him six months before
AM: What was his name?
ST: But we were married [unclear] for our fiftieth wedding anniversary. We went to New Zealand and
AM: What was his name?
ST: Harold
AM: Harold
ST: Harold James Trapp. Yeah.
AM: So what was it like then, when you first met him and he got you a coffee and then you went straight to the jewellers, but it must have been a bit in between when you went to dances and stuff like that? What was it like when he was going off on operations?
ST: Ah, not very good.
AM: No?
ST: You used to pray that they came back.
US: Can you remember what squadron he flew with?
ST: [unclear]
US: What did he do on the plane? Was he?
ST: He was a bomb aimer.
US: Bomb aimer.
AM: Was the bomb aimer. But he obviously came through it. If you were married for fifty years.
ST: Yeah. Thank goodness, yeah.
AM: Watched him go out and watched him come back.
ST: Yeah. We used to wait, [unclear] we used to wait for him coming back, yeah [unclear]
AM: So, when did you get married? Did you get married during the war or?
ST: December the 4th 1945.
AM: Alright, so just after the end.
ST: Yeah. 1945, yeah.
AM: How long did you stay in the WAAFs for?
ST: Well, the year after we got married I was expecting [laughs] so I came home. Our daughter was born.
AM: You must have lots of other stories, things that have happened. Come on, let’s hear some of them.
ST: [laughs] well, another thing. They used to, there was a firm from Mansfield that repaired the runways, kept the runways in track. Well, Mansfield was my hometown, so, I got talking to and, I can’t remember, it must be when they went at four o’clock at night, when I was eight till four and I used to get a lift home and then come back with him next morning and [laughs]
AM: Were you allowed to do that or was that a secret?
ST: I don’t think so, no, they didn’t know [laughs]. No, they didn’t know. But it was handy, you know, it was quite handy, I knew they [unclear] went straight to Mansfield, came back the next day and my friend, oh, I had a friend in the hut named Pearl and she used to look after my, you know, if come round
AM: She just [unclear]
ST: She was just standing in for me [laughs]
AM: [laughs] Did you do, another WAAF I talked to, Bassie, she talked to me about everybody about the WAAFs doing each other’s hair and makeup and stuff. Did you do that or were you not into?
ST: I didn’t do it, I didn’t use, you know, we just rolled our hair up and we had to roll it up
AM: Yeah, and [unclear]
ST: Grips [unclear] cause [unclear] straight, you know,
AM: Roll [unclear]
ST: I think [unclear] a lot of makeup in those days. No, I wasn’t into that.
AM: No, Bassie definitely [unclear]
ST: Pearl and I, we used to, perhaps go for a walk, she came from Coalville in Leicester and we were really good friends straight away, you know, and
AM: Was she a radio operator as well?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
ST: Yeah. But she was sent to a different place after a while, she was sent to
AM: Were you ad Waddington the whole time?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. You stayed at Waddington. So you get to know lots of the men and obviously you had [unclear] you get to know lots of the different.
ST: Yeah, yeah, but, you know.
AM: Did you go out with him and his crew?
ST: No, no.
AM: Did you not?
ST: No, I didn’t, no. Cause I say, I kept nipping home to my mum [laughs]
AM: What did your mum and dad thing about having two dancers in one?
ST: My dad died, [unclear] he died, that’s why I kept going home.
AM: Ok.
ST: She liked it when [unclear] but she used to do my washing [unclear] the next time I did [laughs]
US: What happened to your two brothers? You said you had two brothers. Did they?
ST: Oh Gosh, the oldest brother was stationed, he went to India, he went to India, but my
US: In the Royal Air Force.
ST: No, in the army.
US: He was in the army.
ST: He wasn’t fighting, he was
AM: Engineers?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Royal engineers?
ST: And then my younger brother, we never saw him for five years. He just got married because like the dough and he went into the army, he was put into the Essex regiment and he was sent abroad and we never saw him again for five years, never came home, he was in the Eight Army.
US: Right.
ST: And never saw him, he was so different when he came back. Nobody waving [unclear], when he came back he was bald and spoke a different, you know, sort of a different accent.
AM: A different accent. They both did come home, though.
ST: They came back, yeah and she had a baby while he was away. He’d never seen his dad for five years. Never didn’t even
AM: When you said he was away for five years I thought you were going to say he was a prisoner of war. But he wasn’t. He was just far away in the army.
ST: He was in the Eight Army. They just moved them place to place.
US: In the desert, probably in the western desert and then Italy and [unclear]
ST: Yeah. You see
AM: Too far to come back.
ST: Professionals you know, they wouldn’t let them come back, they kept using them until
AM: Yeah.
US: Your sister, was your sister?
ST: My sister? She went near Sheffield and she was a parachute packer [laughs], she was ok, yeah. When she got married, her husband [unclear] and he was sent to Norway fighting, they were fighting in Norway, their regiment, yeah.
AM: Crickey!
ST: So, I don’t know how my mum, I don’t know how she [unclear]
AM: [unclear] especially If your dad had died, early in the war did your dad die? Or did he die before that?
ST: ’36 he died.
AM: So before the war
ST: 1942
AM: But you said he was a miner.
ST: Kidney, kidney trouble.
AM: Yeah.
US: So it was good that your mum had you in Waddington
ST: Yeah,
US: [unclear]
ST: [unclear] that’s why I kept going home
AM: Well to [unclear] four children away,
ST: Yeah.
AM: This was unheard of before the war
ST: Yes it was and she tried to get me to stay at home, she tried to get me out of it and I wouldn’t listen to her.
AM: No.
ST: And then I tried to go with my sister and they wouldn’t let me [unclear]
AM: They wouldn’t let you do that. But all in all you sound like you enjoyed most of it.
ST: Oh, I did, I did. [unclear] different, if I hadn’t gone I was really very shy and never mixed much but that did me good going in the Air Force, it really did, yeah. And I spread my wings, you know, I’ve been everywhere now, so.
AM: Tell me a little bit about what, you met Harold and Harold was in the, a bomb aimer and obviously you got married in 1945 and then you had your [unclear] by having your daughter and what did Harold do at the end? Cause how long was it before he was demobbed?
ST: What was it, he was before he demobbed [unclear]
AM: Yeah, how long, because quite a lot of them went for another [unclear], weren’t they, before demobbing.
ST: He didn’t come out till ’47 because they were bringing VIPs back from Far East, you know. Yeah, they were bringing
AM: Where did you live then, if he was still in the RAF? While he was still there in ’46 and ’47?
ST: Where?
US: Did you go back to your mum’s or?
ST: I went to my mum’s.
AM: You went back to your mum’s.
ST: And then I went up to Scotland to live cause he worked for the electricity board and they were building a big hydroelectric scheme on Loch Lomond and so we moved round to, lived on Loch Lomond side for about three years. And then it was very lonely [unclear] so I wanted to come home to my mum so we got a transfer down to Mansfield, yeah. So
AM: Right. And then, because you were telling me you’ve lived all over the world, how did you end up?
ST: Yeah, the same crew as Harold was Joe Bradshaw, he was a flight engineer, and he was an Irishman, my husband was Scottish and they were buddies, you know, friends, and in fact he was my daughters godfather when she was born but he went back to Ireland, then he went to Canada, he emigrated to Canada and he met a lady there and got married in Canada. And then he worked for a car industry or something and he got a chance for a job down in San Diego in America so he was always saying, why don’t you come over here, this is the land of opportunity, so we did [Laughs]. We, first of all, my daughter went over for a holiday and she met a young man while she was there and she was a schoolteacher she had got [unclear] and she wrote and said, mum, I’m getting married and she came back, gave a notice and went back. So, then we went over to see her in San Diego and a younger daughter and her husband went as well so he liked it in San Diego, so he got, Joe got him a job in San Diego so they went over to San Diego, so I was living, we were living in a little [unclear] there and [unclear] my husband retired, he was sixty five and he said, we may as well go, so we packed up and went. So we were all in San Diego which is, have you ever been there?
AM: No.
ST: Paradise there. I don’t know why I left. And daughter and husband lost his job in San Diego and his mum lived in Burbank near Los Angeles so they went back and then my youngest daughter, he wasn’t getting very much money and he was offered a better job in New Jersey so they went over to New Jersey and we were left in San Diego so then we moved up further up California to Simi Valley, where that’s where my oldest daughter was, up at Simi Valley and we bought a house there and we live there and I’m twenty six years there.
AM: Wonderful. In retirement.
ST: In retirement. It was wonderful.
AM: You sound like you’ve had a lovely life.
ST: Yes, I have.
AM: You have a lovely life.
ST: And it’s while we were in San Diego that it was our fiftieth wedding anniversary and I said to my daughter, we don’t want any, we don’t want a party because all the family is in England. I said, we are going away, we are going by ourselves and we are going on a tour around New Zealand, cause we are doing bus tours, you know. So, we went and booked and we went, well, on December the fourth, that was our wedding anniversary. We got on, this coach, we were on the same bus and there were people from all over, you know, South Africa, Holland, everywhere, on this coach and we got on and everybody started singing happy anniversary to us [laughs]. So I said to the bus driver, how did you know? Cause we never said anything. And he says, a little bird told me that. So I think we went to see those hot things
AM: Springs.
ST: Yeah, hot springs and we went to see them and when we got back and went into the hotel and dinner, dinner was late that night he said, so went down for dinner. When we got into the dining room, it was decorated [unclear] happy anniversary.
AM: Wonderful.
ST: My daughter, my oldest daughter had sent a fax over, cause there were faxes then
AM: Yeah. The emails now, but faxes then.
ST: Sent a fax to the hotel. I don’t know if she sent money but there was the biggest wedding cake, three tier wedding cake and you just couldn’t believe it, [unclear] I just wanted a quiet
AM: A quite wedding
ST: We didn’t want to, no. [file missing] And I hadn’t asked for leave and I got two weeks at the same time and married December the fourth and we travelled, my mum and my sister and me, we travelled up to Glasgow by train which was full of troops, all, you know. It took as about eleven hours to get to Glasgow but when we got to Glasgow we’ve got to get to Gourock to get the ferry over, so we got to Gourock, it was dark, pitch black, not a thing and ferries had stopped running because it was gale, the gale blowing and I thought, what do we do now? So we stood there in the dark and I just didn’t know what to do and this American came over and he said, where are you heading for? I said, Dunoon. He says, I’ll take you. And there was in the Clyde of Dunoon there was a big submarine base, you know, American submarines and some of the crews had gone into Glasgow for a night out and he was, got the liberty boat waiting to take him home [laughs]. He says, I’ll take you across, well, there’s my mum, me and my sister and the gale blowing and we are going up and down, my mother was ever so sick, she says, I’ll never come here again, never again, she said. Anyway, got to Dunoon, and he got a car, they were allowed petrol, you know, and he came and met me, I phoned him and he came and met me. And then I got into trouble for not going to look for a hotel but we couldn’t see, it was pitch black, you know and anyway. Got married on the Tuesday and on the, on the Tuesday, maybe next day, Harold had booked a sleeper down to London, cause Harold’s sister had married a sailor and was living in Portsmouth. So we got on this sleeper and we went down to London but we had two bunks, one on top and then [unclear] me, if two army officers, they come in and [laughs]
AM: So that was your honeymoon.
ST: That was my honeymoon night. I got two army officers, my husband up there and me down here. Anyway we got to his sister’s and my leave was off so I sit down, I’m not going back, I’m not going back, I said. So he says, you’ll have to go back, I said, no, I’m not, you know. Anyway, we got a phone call from his mum and then [unclear] police had gone up to Dunoon for me [laughs]. So, I thought, well, I better go back, I said, I’ll get my husband in trouble, you know, you’ll get worse trouble [unclear]
AM: You were still in at this point.
ST: So, he took me back, he took me, we went back and I thought, oh God, I’m going to go to prison or something [laughs]. Anyway, I went in and it was, commanding officer was a woman and she came round and she put an arm round my shoulder and she says, you know, my dear, I would have done exactly the same [laughs].
AM: Brilliant.
ST: So, apart from having military police after me, I really [unclear] [laughs].
AM: [laughs], so, but all the way up to Dunoon?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Which is a long way [unclear] west coast of Scotland. And all the way back to Portsmouth.
ST: Yeah.
AM: Crickey! I knew there were stories in you.
ST: [laughs] you didn’t care in those days, did you? It could have been his last leave.
AM: He’d gone through the war, yeah, and he was still flying.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Sylvia Trapp
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-05
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ATrappSV160405
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:38:17 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Sylvia was born in Mansfield where her father was a miner and her mother had worked at Lawns Mills. She had two brothers and a sister. Sylvia was 15 when she left school to work at the hosiery mills and recalls the German manager being deported. She joined the WAAF and completed basic training at RAF Innesworth. Away from home for the first time, she cried a lot.
She was selected for wireless training and trained at RAF Compton Bassett and Blackpool, where she used to go dancing. As a wireless operator Sylvia was posted to RAF Bottesford and then RAF Waddington, working shifts in the Air Traffic Control tower. She also had to check the aircraft radios.
Sylvia's accommodation hut had ten beds and on many evenings, she was able to get a lift home to Mansfield and back with a contractor. At RAF Waddington, she met and fell in love with Harold, a bomb aimer and says it was hard to watch him depart on operations. But he survived and they married when the war ended and they had two daughters.
In 1947 the family moved to Scotland for three years but Sylvia found it very lonely so Harold transferred to Mansfield.
Harold's flight engineer emigrated to North America after the war and was always suggesting they do the same. Sylvia's daughters both went first and then, when Harold retired, he and Sylvia went to California
Sylvia says they celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in New Zealand and then recalls how she had spent her honeymoon on a train to Glasgow with two army men, before travelling all the way down to Portsmouth, where she became absent without leave. Worried that she might be imprisoned, she returned to RAF Waddington where her WAAF commanding officer took sympathy on her.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Peter Schulze
Andy Fitter
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Mansfield
Scotland
Scotland--Loch Lomond
United States
California
California--San Diego
California--Simi Valley
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1945-12-04
1946
1947
Absent Without Leave
aircrew
ground personnel
love and romance
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Bottesford
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Innesworth
RAF Waddington
training
wireless operator
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
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2d9a0b1955ec61cf83919743f7647356
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Boldy, David
Dave Boldy
D A Boldy
Description
An account of the resource
334 items. The collection concerns Flight Sergeant David Adrian Boldy (1918 – 1942, 923995 Royal Air Force) and consists of his school reports, letters from school and photographs of family and locations in India, letters from training and service, and photographs from his social life and time training. It also includes newspaper cuttings and letters about him being missing in action. David Boldy was born and attended school in India and studied law at Kings College London. He volunteered for the Royal Air Force and trained as an air gunner in South Africa. He flew operations in Manchesters and Lancasters with 207 Squadron from RAF Bottesford. His aircraft failed to return from an operation to Gdańsk 11 July 1942. <br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by David Boldy and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.<br /><br />Additional information on David Boldy is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/102182/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Boldy, DA
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marriage certificate for Amerkhan Boldy and Lily Moses
Description
An account of the resource
Extract from register of marriage for Amerkhan Boldy and Lily Moses at the Armenian Holy Church of Nazarethin Calcutta on 18 December 1917.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Armenian Church Calcutta
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1957-08-13
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One page form document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MBoldyDA923995-151130-30
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
India
India--Kolkata
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1917-12-18
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
love and romance
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Green, Alan William
A W Green
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Green, AW
Description
An account of the resource
58 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Alan William Green (b. 1920, 104402, 1150518 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, diary and correspondence. He flew operation as a navigator with 218 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Stuart Green and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
“Hey Tor”
Birches Lane,
Kenilworth
6th
My Dear Alan,
I'm so glad you rang me up to-night, I was feeling rather depressed, and had almost got to the stage of self-pity and that'll never do. I thought somehow you might phone me and as you said, it must have been intuition.
Sorry to hear your journey wasn't so good, you evidently don't get the fun out of travelling as I do, one of these days I shall have to show you, how to tackle it.
I hope you'll excuse the writing if its not very good, but I'm doing my best to
[page break]
balance my writing case on my knee and write at the same time, its much too cold to move from the fire, its the kind of cold that creeps in everywhere, and unless you sit on top of the fire you don't get warm, - oh damn I'm starting about the weather again, and that subject is taboo, so don't you dare forget.
I'm missing you already Alan, so heaven only knows what I'm going to do for the next six weeks, so don't forget to write me some really nice letters, my only compensation at the moment.
I hope the party will go down alright, and mind its two legs you stagger to bed on. I envy you all these parties you are able to have.
[page break]
Work just didn't go down with me to-day, I was bored stiff because I'd finished everything I had to do in two hours, and nobody could find me anything to do, that's the war effort.
I know there was something I wanted to ask you, can a woman take up Dispensing, and how long is it before you are qualified?
I should love to have brought the car up to Norfolk. I only wish my driving was good enough for me to do so, how will you get it back up there anyway?
By the way I took you at your word about your socks. I can easily sit and do them and anything else you want,
[page break]
whilst I sit and hug the fire in the evenings, I can sew you know, so don't be scared that they won't be alright. I can make myself useful at times, - in case you didn't know.
I have actually been able to write about something, but if it doesn't make sense just feel sorry for me and forgive me.
Take care of yourself, I'm afraid I can't tell you that too many times.
All my Love,
Averil.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Alan Green from Averil
Description
An account of the resource
Averil expresses delight about Alan phoning her. She asks for more letters and tells him to take care.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Averil
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Four handwritten pages
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX06-0001,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX06-0002,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX06-0003,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX06-0004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Kenilworth
England--Warwickshire
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jan Waller
love and romance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1541/28139/E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0001.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1541/28139/E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0003.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Green, Alan William
A W Green
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Green, AW
Description
An account of the resource
58 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Alan William Green (b. 1920, 104402, 1150518 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, diary and correspondence. He flew operation as a navigator with 218 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Stuart Green and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
“Hey Tor”
Birches Lane,
Kenilworth
Friday 13th
Darling Alan,
After having recovered from shock, I can now reply to yours letters, hope you note its in the plural. How nice for you to have been able to look Basil up, and from all reports he's fighting fit, I can guess what kind of time you two had to-gether.
If and when you do fly over Kenilworth, don't scare us too much, and please leave our chimney pots alone.
I haven't seen anything of Don at all, I was quite surprised to hear he was going over to India. Basil is very keen to go there, isn't he? I had a card from
[page break]
Don at Xmas, plus his address, and I have been meaning to write to him, but it takes all my time supporting the Air – Force these days without starting on the Army.
I haven't been able to get seats for the Hippodrome, but as its next week and you won't be home, it won't be very much use, still the week you come on leave (big hopes) there's quite a good show on , I believe, Flanagan & Allen, in a skit on “1066 and all that” which I think might be more enjoyable than the other show. I seem to be taking it for granted that you'll go, don't I? Still I hope you will.
By the way I have at last had my photo taken, but It will be about three to four weeks, before
[page break]
anything comes of it, so you won't have anything to frighten you for the next month, go on heave a sigh of relief.
I haven't been to work for the last two days. I came home Wednesday absolutely frozen, a thick head and my throat ached like nothing on earth, I thought I'd got flu or something, anyway I feel a lot better to-day, so what ever it was, I think I must have caught it in time.
Nothing very exciting has happened just lately, except a dog-fight the other evening, fifteen were having a grand scrap and I believe one was killed, and from what I can make out the owner going to make a case of it, - damn silly, but I suppose
[page break]
asked me for a photo of myself. But you've only mentioned once about sending me one of yourself so don't forget will you.
Do you think that Basil might be on leave about the same time as you, I believe I mentioned that Doreen was anxious to meet him, and if he was I thought it would be a splendid opportunity for them to meet, poor Basil if he only knew of my plotting and planning behind his back, he'd bless me, still perhaps its as well that he doesn't.
I knew there was something I wanted to tell you. I heard the other day that the Greswold is being taken over by the Army on Monday, and am I mad, the only decent place for dancing and the so and so
[page break]
army has to take it.
Well I think that is about all for now, and I'm still two up on you, - so sorry.
Take care of yourself.
Love,
Averil
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Alan Green from Averil
Description
An account of the resource
Averil expresses surprise at receiving several letters from Alan. She has had a photograph taken but it will be three or four weeks before it arrives. Then she has been off work because she has had a severe cold.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Averil
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0001,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0002,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0003,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0004,
E[Author]AGreenAWXXXX13-0005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Kenilworth
England--Warwickshire
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jan Waller
love and romance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1549/35524/PHansonJE1601.2.jpg
4cdf4e416c33659a4882e67035e128e0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hanson, Joseph Edward
J E Hanson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-18
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hanson, JE
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collection concerns Flying Officer Joseph Edward Hanson DFM (<span>46968 </span>Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, remembrance and photograph. He flew operations as an air gunner with 50, 44 and 61 Squadrons. He was killed 1 October 1942. <br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Colin Thompson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br /><br /><span data-contrast="none" xml:lang="EN-GB" lang="EN-GB" class="TextRun SCXW134679673 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW134679673 BCX0">Additional information on<span> Joseph Edwar Hanson Joseph Edward Hanson</span></span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW134679673 BCX0"><span> </span>is available via the</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW134679673 BCX0" data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":200,"335559740":276}"> <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/109837/">IBCC Losses Database.</a></span>
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
JE Hanson's Wedding
Description
An account of the resource
A wedding photograph with JE Hanson and his bride, Mary Alice. The bridal party includes parents, bridesmaid and best man.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
B Sandford Taylor Bradford
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PHansonJE1601
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
love and romance