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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/697/10100/ABassettFG180517.1.mp3
c76a4674418dcf52e322e714612bd4d8
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Title
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Bassett, Frank Gerald
F G Bassett
Description
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An oral history interview with Frank Bassett (b. 1924 1860826 Royal Air Force).
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-05-17
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Bassett, FG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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FB: It was bloody hard work humping bombs out for them.
AC: Right.
FB: Good job though. Good old blokes.
AC: So, I’ve got to, I’ve got to do an introduction. I’m, I’m Andrew Cowley. I’m from the International Bomber Command Centre. I’m interviewing Frank Bassett.
FB: Yeah.
AC: And also here are his son Gary Bassett and his granddaughter, Helen Howard.
FB: Right.
AC: It’s, we’re at his [redacted] It’s the 17th of May 2018 which is the seventy fifth anniversary of the Dambusters raid.
FB: Christ.
AC: And it’s 10.32. So Frank, I’m going to put some questions to you, but before we get on to the RAF just tell me about, a bit, a little bit about your childhood, your family, where you went to school, how you came to join up.
FB: I went to school at Wood Street School, Woolwich. When I left there, I went straight to a firm that I was going to learn a trade with. That would be [unclear] case making and all that. From there, I stayed there until I done a silly thing. Decided that I’d join the RAF [laughs] I don’t know why because I was already in the Home Guard and things like that and I was only about sixteen then. I was about eighteen when I went in the RAF, and where? I can’t even think where. I know it wasn’t too long before, where you are down in, I can’t even think of the names. I couldn’t even tell you the names of the ‘dromes there. But I was in the bomb dump there, or in the armoury and unfortunately that was another silly mistake. Apart from where we did the most work and it was bloody heaviest too. And where were we talking? I couldn’t even tell you most of the ‘dromes I’ve been on. But when you think we’re talking about when I was eighteen and I’m now forty five [laughs] ninety four. So that gives you an idea, you know, but I have to say that. Well, I don’t know. I suppose I was a bit silly at the time, but I thought well both my brothers were in the Army and I thought well, although I’ve got a trade here that’s alright. They, when I, when I told them they said, ‘Oh don’t worry about it. You won’t have to.’ I said, ‘But I want to stay.’ ‘What?’ I was learning a trade there. So, I said, ‘Well, I aint going to.’ Cor, Christ. So, they said, ‘Well, it’s up to you.’ And I left there and I went in the RAF and when I came out although I’d still about three years to do they said, ‘That’s alright. You can come straight in as what you’d been trained in.’ So that was alright as far as that go. But I can only remember I was doing fire watching and in the Home Guard and when I think you know, what’s the matter with me? And when I came out I went back to my old job again. And when I was in the RAF, apart from doing my training, where was that now? One of those coastal places. Anyway, most of the time I spent in, apart from going abroad I spent in where you are now in, I’m trying to think. Was there just one ‘drome there? But it was a Bomber Command one. You know. And as far as I’m concerned I don’t think I was always, well I would be if I was in aerodromes and that, that’s where you’re going to be isn’t it? Humping bombs about. And bloody hard work I have to say but so, but I don’t know why. I suppose I went in there as a kid and as you know there’s AC1 and AC2 and all that lot and I was a corporal when I came out. So, I was still only twenty four. So that’s not bad going really I don’t think. And I have to say that to be honest I think they were a good lot really, you know. I wasn’t keen on going in the Army although I’d been in the Home Guard and that. But yeah, they was quite nice and I think 617 was a really good squadron. The only thing is that as I say as far as I was concerned it, it meant getting bombs out the bomb dump, loading them up and then getting them out of there and of course the squadron blokes put them on but that’s the easy part, wasn’t it? And then we’d have to unload more when they came in and if they was a bit late at night we wouldn’t get no dinner until, I don’t know about 8 or 9 o’clock at night so, but I was only young so it didn’t really worry me. But I think that as I say I thought 617 was a really, that was one of the strong ones, weren’t it? They were really good them blokes, I reckon. Very nice fellas. So was, aircrews and that. But as I say, perhaps ‘cos I was a bit young. Perhaps I should have chosen something a little bit better but there you go. I chose the RAF and that’s it.
AC: Was there a reason you chose the RAF?
FB: It was strange really because I was, as I say I was in the Home Guard, which was Army and no I never thought about it but for some reason or other. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s because it’s a young lot wasn’t it? You know. And somehow or other I took to a fancy to it. And I soon learned better of course, but I, I really believe that they are, so was the Army I suppose and the Navy but I mean when you look at some of these kids nowadays, or these idiots as I call them no wonder the Germans said, ‘Christ [unclear] the only good was the Army.’ No. I think I quite liked it and what did I do? About four years I suppose. So, but I can’t say as I’ve got any complaints. I didn’t get into any trouble but I also didn’t do silly things which I think was quite good. And I liked Lincolnshire. That was quite good.
AC: Did you have any choice about the job in the RAF?
FB: Well, yeah actually we did but I don’t know. Well, of course I’d experienced the bombing at home, but when I went to the recruiting place they said, ‘What do I want to join the RAF for?’ and I thought as a young, a young, that’s sounds alright. So I said, ‘Yeah, I wouldn’t mind the RAF.’ And to be honest I haven’t got a bad word to say about them. Not like some blokes do, you know. I quite liked it even though I got in the wrong lot. Getting in the Army, by Christ. I should have, have gone in the office or something like that. Doing nothing [laughs] But no, I think they were a good lot of blokes, and I think 617 Squadron really were a fine lot. Well, they all were really. But they were a nice lot of blokes, I think.
AC: Did, did you get a choice of about whether you wanted to be an armourer or anything else in the RAF?
FB: I was in the RAF.
AC: No. Did you get a choice about what you wanted to do in the RAF?
FB: I couldn’t tell you now. For some reason or other I can remember roughly going to one of the ‘dromes and they said, ‘Well, we need blokes in the bomb dump.’ So [laughs] if they’d have said, ‘We need blokes in the café,’ I suppose I would have been in the café. No. So I got used and I had a few friends there and that’s it. So, I thought it was quite good. I don’t think that was a bad I say. Well, I would say that but I do think they were a good lot. There was none of this you know like some blokes they don’t want to be. As a matter of fact, there must be because when I had my photo taken they wouldn’t allow. ‘Your hat’s not on right.’ [laughs] but I was about twenty something then, I suppose.
AC: So, can you, can you describe to me a typical day for you in the armoury?
FB: A miserable day?
AC: A typical.
FB: A typical day. Oh. Well, we come out from the billet. We’d go down to the armoury. We’d be told what had to be done. If there’s anything going out that day there could well be a couple of lorries coming in with bombs on board which meant of course you had to do that. So therefore, you didn’t have a nice little job sitting somewhere. You’d do that. You’d have to make sure everything was as it was and it was hard work. I mean, you probably know yourself you get those long sodding bombs and you get one bloke on each end. It’s not easy. And then you get the hard ones where you’ve got a crane. And to be honest we never used that crane. You see you’ve got a crane there, a lift there. Nobody ever touched it. All done, done by hand. And when I think about well, I don’t know get four or five of you on it. That’s not bad. But you have to remember I was only twenty or so if I was about forty something I might have had a different view. But I thought they was, I thought they was quite good. I liked the places, and I suppose in a way just because you was in the Army didn’t mean you didn’t have anything else to do. Oh yes you did. When there was other things there you might be, I don’t know, route marches, or, whatever else had to be done. But like, as I say I was only young then so it didn’t worry me.
AC: Good.
FB: And where I worked wasn’t a piece of cake so it never worried me. So —
AC: Just going, you mentioned your billet. What was that like?
FB: Well, I had various billets but I have to say even about that for a billet it’s not bad. I don’t know what the Army’s like but this wasn’t bad. I mean it wasn’t like a hotel but [laughs] but the billets were alright. And you had to keep the place clean but I think that’s a good thing because I even say it to the kids sometimes if you’re, if you’re not organised you’re just a rabble and I don’t think the RAF was a rabble. Or any of the other services. And I found that most of the blokes, providing you were sensible you was fine. None of this old [moaning] None of that. As I told these I do have to have to have a bit of a laugh sometimes because I remember a bloke coming along the road and he said, ‘Oh, I want to get a paper.’ He said, ‘It does fold up I suppose.’ There’s all these blokes coming along and he said, ‘Ah, just a minute mate. Where do you get a paper?’ ‘Mate? Mate,’ he said, ‘What do you think they are? Report to the guardroom.’ But I mean, they weren’t all that bad really but I mean as I said before I do believe if you don’t have discipline it’s just a bloody rabble. And apart from, I don’t like to say that, apart from the German Army the British Army is the best in the world. That’s my one. I’m sure the RAF is also [laughs] alright. But no. I did my bit quietly really. I was glad to get home mind you but I went to Palestine and Egypt and that but I don’t know, you know.
AC: Did, did you have any contact with the aircrew?
FB: Not an awful lot because you have to remember the crews are out there. Me and my comrades were down in the bomb dump, and it wasn’t just a question of, ‘Oh, well that’s alright then. We haven’t got anything coming.’ It wasn’t like that as you probably know. There was bombs coming in all the time for you to unload apart from doing the rest of your work and it wasn’t easy but, I don’t know. I suppose I was, as I say I was only twenty or so. It didn’t worry me. I didn’t worry about cranes or anything like that. And I think it was, I can’t honestly say, I can’t remember it all, the difference when I was up but I can’t honestly say I was disappointed in the attitude or anything like that, and no, I think it wasn’t always, hey up, stand to attention. But when you was off duty it was quite good. So, I don’t think there’s, I think personally, I suppose I would say that but I really think they are a good force. I don’t know what they’re like now of course but, you know.
AC: Were you involved with loading bombs actually on to the planes?
FB: No. Actually, what we, what we did we got the bombs out the bomb dump and done what we had to do with them. Got them on the trucks. Pushed them out the trucks, and the aircrew had their own blokes so really in a way amongst the armourers they were the easiest. They had to unload them, load them on and that’s it finished. But not us. We might have loaded them on, got them out there. And then go and have your tea. When you come back there’s three trucks coming in. And it was bloody hard. But that’s another strange thing because I know I’d never done an easy job when I was in civvy street, but they was never what I would call [pause] it wasn’t easy, and you know yourself when you get one of these with a load of bombs on it, it’s not that simple but I’d find it a bit harder now I suppose, but no. I think they were a good lot and I think, well I think all the British forces are good. I would think that. But I’ve, I have no complaint about which is basically, I know there are some blokes in there in a nice office jobs, I suppose but that’s just one of these things. But other than that, I think they were a good lot of blokes. And the crews were good and all, I think. They weren’t [unclear] they was good blokes. So, and I really think that in a way they had a very hard job. I mean it’s not easy flying over somewhere and so —
AC: In your bomb dump can you remember any particular smells or anything about it?
FB: Not off hand, I can’t. The thing is as I say, because I didn’t choose any particular, what I wanted to do I suppose they’d go, oh good another bloke for the bomb dump, and that’s why you know I always worked in bomb dumps but it didn’t worry me.
AC: Was it, was it particularly hot. Cold. Can you remember?
FB: Sometimes it would be when the weather was a bit warm, you know and you’re humping bombs around. Remember you might have had a crane to do some things but like most blokes, ‘I don’t want a bloody crane. Get hold there,’ you know. But I’m, I’m saying that I don’t really, I suppose I’m biased really but when I say the RAF is the best one. There’s not one as good as that in the world. Never mind. You know. So, perhaps I’m biased.
AC: And can, can you remember any of the mates who you worked with? Any personalities?
FB: Well, I worked with a few blokes [unclear] I can’t remember. I can’t remember their names. Not even, look you can see one here [paper rustling] but I couldn’t remember his name either. Not him, I mean he worked in the bomb dump. He’s not [laughs] That’s me. I know you shouldn’t have your photo taken like that but I did. No, I’m trying to think of. As I say once I came out the RAF that was it. I went back to me work and —
HH: [unclear]
FB: It’s a long while ago. A long while ago. Trying to think. Probably might have been, might have a lot of jokes about different things but basically I think when you hear people talk about oh bloody this, and that I can understand it but they were a good lot of blokes and we knew what we had to do and that’s it. And if you wanted the war to end as quickly as possible you did that, didn’t you? You didn’t do silly things. I can’t think of any complaints. Even with the NCOs and that. They were quite good blokes. So, I think [unclear] we did but they were quite good.
AC: I’m going to read four placenames where 617 Squadron were just to see if it jogs your memory about where you served.
FB: Christ.
AC: There’s Coningsby.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Scampton.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Waddington
FB: Yeah.
AC: Woodhall Spa.
FB: Yeah. I’ve done all of them at different times. I remember them clear as anything but if you’d have said to me who was the captain of so and so, Christ, who would that be now? You know. But no, I really thought that and I still think they were the best aircraft in the world.
AC: So, did, did, did you have a favourite place out of all those?
FB: Well, I liked Lincolnshire. I don’t know why but I did. I was up there. Quite good there. Used to get out you know when we wanted to and the camp itself was quite good you know I thought and even the grub wasn’t bad really.
AC: But which —
FB: I know you hear these people moaning about everything but if you were honest it’s a bloody sight more worse than that so but no I can’t even remember what ‘dromes I was on. I’ve been on all them ‘dromes. I was at the one when the Lincolnshire blokes come in. You know, the Dam ones. But I can’t, I can’t remember. There were other ‘dromes I was at and of course I’d done certain courses at times and things like that but I can’t honestly say that oh, bloody awful you know. I think, and I might be wrong but I think a lot of young blokes they got it bloody easy in the forces. You know. The kids these days look at you they wouldn’t have that for five minutes. But you know I’m a bit scruffy myself now I suppose. Mind you I’ve got some better clothes but no. No, I have to say that although I don’t know why I really chose them. Perhaps it might have been glamour but if I was of that age again that would be who’d I’d prefer to join. The RAF.
AC: You said you did some courses. Can you remember what those courses were?
FB: Oh, Christ. Now you’re asking. It’s about ninety years ago. Oh Christ. They must have been armament courses some of them I suppose. Various other ones what you do, you know. I don’t know. They would all be to do with war. It wouldn’t be dancing or anything like that. But no. I can’t think. I can’t even think of the names of the blokes. But you wouldn’t, all that time ago, would you? I was only twenty or so. In fact, I was only, I think I was eighteen when, when I went to join the RAF and as I said I might have been about eighteen and a half by the time I got in there. But no. I met some nice fellas and I thought the, you know it was better than just marching all day or something. I understand, I suppose the Army has to do that probably amongst the other things but I was always, I’m even trying to even think of some of the names of the squadrons. 617 of course. You don’t forget them. And as far as I’m concerned they were without doubt, I’m not saying all the rest of the crews weren’t. They were. But 617, well, you know. But it was hard work but what do you expect? So —
AC: I think you may have loaded some Dambusters bombs. Is that right?
FB: Yeah. Oh yeah. But as I say, as you probably know first of all they come in from wherever they’re made. We unload them there. When they go out we load them again and the only difference was the aircrews had their own blokes for putting them on board. Bloody lucky. That’s all I can say. But no, I have to say that I’m not like some people, bloody war. I mean it was a war and that’s it. You could be in the Army which would have been worse. Both my brothers was in the Army and it wasn’t too great for them. No. I think [pause] Yes, I could have stayed out. In fact, the governor said to me, ‘You are doing a job where you won’t get called up.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’ve got no objections to being called up.’ [Unclear] But you wouldn’t ask that now. I know that. I suppose a bit silly at the time but I don’t regret it. Not really. You’ve got to do this and that’s it as far as I [pause] I wouldn’t do it now if I was, you know but I wouldn’t say no to anything like that and I realise you’ve got have to have a certain amount of discipline. I know that. But looking at it another way I think they was pretty good in lots of ways. So —
AC: Were, were any of your ‘dromes ever bombed while you were there?
FB: I think, vaguely, vaguely, I can’t remember, I suppose. I can’t even remember which ones it might have been. Why? I don’t think the damage if I can remember correct was too much. They were soon shushed up I think. But it must have been Lincolnshire, that’s where I was at, that’s where I spent most of my time before I went abroad, you know. And I can’t even think of the name until you mentioned the names of them ‘dromes. And I can’t even remember the commanding officers or anyone else. But as I say it’s ninety years ago. I’ve had nothing to do with the forces since then really, you know.
AC: Did you ever watch planes taking off or landing?
FB: Yeah. Yeah. I suppose I’m a bit biased but to me the RAF, there was no one like them. They couldn’t land like that and couldn’t take off and they couldn’t be like them but that’s how you’ve got to be I think. You’re not concerned with the enemy. Yes, I think there was some very good crews there. I was only looking in the paper the other day about their, what’s his name now. Apparently, he had short legs and he couldn’t get in to the RAF. But then he was a squadron leader with them. That just shows you. I met one or two blokes mind you but I suppose basically once you either go in to a trade or you gone in to whatever it was you stuck with that because as far as they was concerned that job was yours wasn’t it? And I think they were quite good blokes really. I don’t think there’s any real nastiness amongst them. They were quite all right. Maybe I was just lucky and most of the blokes were just good blokes. I never thought that sometimes you might go out to the ‘dromes but you never got any of these squadron leaders, ‘Oi you —’ and their weight you know and I thought that was bloody good really. They didn’t have to be like that but they were. Maybe I was just lucky and had lucky crews there.
AC: Did you know any aircrew? Did they tell you of any of their experiences at all?
FB: Christ, now I’m trying to think. I can’t think of any. I can’t even think of some of the raids they used to make. I know sometimes of course unfortunately they didn’t all come back. Sometimes they came back a bit, but I never, I never heard anyone saying, ‘Sod this,’ you know. Might have been one or two. I never heard anything like that and I thought they was all good blokes and certainly they never sort of laid the law down. As far as they were concerned they were aircrew and that’s it. And providing you was sensible it didn’t matter, you know. I thought they were good. Most of them crews. And yeah, there must have been something. A few of them shot up and that and various things. But as I said being in, it would be where you got Bomber Command. So of course most of my time was concerned with bomb dumps. I was getting bombs out, bringing them in, doing all this, doing all that so you didn’t get a lot of time really to, a bit of time off now and again and things like that but you worked. There’s no doubt about that. But I couldn’t think of any, I can’t think off hand that nobody liked. Obviously, I didn’t have so much to do with the aircrews but obviously when they weren’t training or anything they wouldn’t just stroll around the camp. But as I say if I had to join another force I know I’d, as I say I was in the Home Guard but they would be the ones that I would probably and it probably the same sort as I was with. I don’t know why. Perhaps it’s because I got used to it and there was some good blokes there, you know so, but no, sometimes the air raid would go off and but I can’t think of any real, real bad ones, you know. I can think of some being shot up a bit and things like that. Fortunately, when the crew weren’t in them [laughs] but I can’t really think of [pause] I suppose, in a way, thinking of it now working a lot of the time and you would be in the bomb dump wouldn’t you? Someone’s got to bring the bombs in. Someone’s got to arm them up, someone’s got to load them and get them out to, and the aircrew blokes, not them but their crew who had to do it for them. But they was a nice lot of fellas so, but no I can’t think off hand. If I was that young again and I wanted to join it would probably be the Air Force again. I don’t think it would be, perhaps I’m being biased but I’m being honest when I say I don’t [unclear] I didn’t find any of that providing you behaved yourself and dressed yourself properly. I think these blokes bellowing their heads off, a load of rubbish some of that is I think. But there you go.
AC: What did you get up to in your time off?
FB: Well, of course, being in London [laughs] you would be dodging bombs and things like that wouldn’t you because the raids was going on here just the same. And I don’t know. I suppose those blokes said, ‘Why the bloody hell did you want to join the Air Force when bombs come over here.’ But there you go. No. I didn’t do an awful lot. There wasn’t a lot you could do. And obviously I only had Air Force pay then. I wasn’t earning more than people on the outside. But I can remember, you know when I got demobbed as I told the kids once I went down to where I used to work, saw the manager, had a word and the bloke, I should have done a six, five or six year course. Actually, I’d done three of them when I went. I came in and one of the blokes said, ‘Hello.’ I said, ‘Hello.’ He said, ‘Are you coming back now?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘Oh, can I find you a job on the bench.’ No. He’s not going to find me a job. I’ll tell you what. He’s been doing the same job you were doing but I don’t care about that. While you were still here I was somewhere else. So other than that, fine. So I’ve never had push here, push there. All those. And I’ve always considered I’ve done a job well so —
AC: So, when you were on the ‘dromes —
FB: Yeah.
AC: On your time off did you go to pubs or, what did you do with your spare time?
FB: I’ve never smoked except a very little when I was young. Never drank. Did I [unclear] I don’t think so. No. I used to go out with the lads and might go in one of the cafes down there or things like that but we didn’t have a lot of money did we so we didn’t you know. But no, I might go to the pictures now and again. It was only about fourpence I suppose. No. It was all right. But nice enough blokes. We never had every day off of course. [unclear] sometimes but I can’t really have any moans about it. You know, I mean you don’t go to war and expect to have strong wine and [unclear] and got plenty of money do you? And I never had plenty of money so I accepted. No. I liked Lincoln as I say. I don’t think I’ve been there since but I did, perhaps it’s because the RAF was mainly a lot of young blokes weren’t they? I think, you I know. I think so. But no, it was alright.
AC: What about RAF songs? Have you got any of those for me? Songs.
FB: Songs?
AC: From the RAF.
FB: Yeah. I can’t remember them off hand. There were a few of course. Some were a bit more than the others but basically as I say I think as one German bloke put it there’s only two real armies. The British Army and the German. He’s probably right. But no, we had some good blokes there. Obviously, we must have had a few blokes who were a bit, you know but judging by today I don’t think so. I mean even your hair cut. I can remember them saying, ‘Get your hair cut.’ It was no good saying you had it cut yesterday. ‘Well, they didn’t cut it right.’ No. There must have been some things I didn’t like. I mean I have to say at times I’d think, ‘Oh Christ, there they go. They are on a day off. We’ve got to go back and unload another load of bombs.’ But it might have been a bit of a moan. But wouldn’t be now though so —
AC: Did you get sent stuff from home? You know, parcels from home.
FB: A few. Some blokes might have got a few more but that never worried me but as I say I didn’t used to drink and I smoked very little which I soon packed up when I came out the forces. I haven’t smoked for I don’t know how long. And no, sometimes I would get bored and have a kick about. If you were a lucky boy you’d get in a team, you know. But I’m trying to think. Obviously, someone must have had a moan. It doesn’t matter what it is and who it is. Someone is going to have a moan, aren’t they? But I can’t think and I have to say by that and large I think most of the officers and people like that were quite good. They didn’t go out of their way to be bloody nasty to you or anything like that. Certainly not in the bomb dump. They’d got no time for that. So, you know. No. No. No. I’m saying that if I had to join the forces again maybe I’d have a different view now but they would be who I would join. Well, if you look in that what’s the name you’ll see a 617 Squadron plane there. That’s how, just on the top there. But no, I think, I can’t think [pause] I wouldn’t want to do it now of course. A bit older now [laughs]
AC: Did you ever think where the bombs were going?
FB: Oh yeah. We had an idea where they was going. We weren’t told but we had an idea by the load so we knew roughly where they was going and I have to say we never thought poor sods or anything like that. They didn’t think that about us and obviously we didn’t them. To us they were the enemy, that’s it. Unfortunately, I suppose the civilians weren’t. But I don’t believe our blokes were so any old how. I don’t think they were like that. I think they would, did what they had to do. I don’t think they just went and dropped bombs any how. I don’t think that. Apart from the photos they brought back. But no, I suppose, I mean when you look at some of these young kids today. Christ. I suppose they could be smart enough. No. I think [laughs] I don’t know why. When I, when I got posted, first one, you know for joining I don’t know why I didn’t think, oh Christ, fancy getting Bomber Command. Letting me in. But there’s no doubt about it Bomber Command did do a lot of work in spite of all the others. I’m not saying they didn’t but Bomber Command was bloody hard work and certainly for the crews. I mean, some were very unfortunate, weren’t they? But I think they were nice sort of blokes. So —
AC: You, you mentioned that you went abroad.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Was that with Bomber Command?
FB: Yeah. I went to Palestine I think it was. Probably a photo there. Palestine and Egypt. But I think by that time it would be about nineteen, I’d been in the forces about two years then and there were rather funny things with that at times. Very funny.
AC: What sort of funny things?
FB: Well, on one camp I was at we used to have a place about two, two miles from the camp and you’d go out and I went out there and by that time I had four blokes and I would be in charge of them. And somebody rang up one day and they said, ‘How many men have you got there?’ And I went, ‘You what?’ ‘How many men you got?’ I said ‘Well, you just tell me the code.’ ‘I’m an officer.’ ‘I’m sorry what you are but — ’ ‘Well, you tell me.’ I said, ‘I’m sorry. I can’t.’ And he slammed the phone down. So, when we got back I told the blokes. They said, ‘Oh Christ,’ they said, ‘That’s one of the Stern Gang people.’ Them sort of people, ‘You were lucky.’ I said, ‘I know I was.’ Nobody would do it [unclear] And I think it was two months after that they done away with that. But so, considering we were bloody lucky really. So, I didn’t get too many of them, you know. We were —
AC: So, what was this place that was two miles away?
FB: Who I was with?
AC: No. You told me about a place that was two miles away from where you were.
FB: Oh, just a caravan. What it was for I don’t know but they used it for some reason or other. It was out there. Wasn’t out there much longer. I’m glad it wasn’t, you know. But obviously there must have been some nasty things going on at some places. We were lucky I suppose but there you go.
AC: And were you doing the same job in Egypt and Palestine?
FB: Mainly. But all to do with the armoury of course. Unless you wanted to do something else, I suppose. No point then. You were already in that sort of thing, weren’t you? But no. I was, I suppose from the time I finished my training basically that’s what I did. Armoury. I wasn’t asked [laughs] whether I wanted to of course. But, but as I say I don’t think it was all a bit of cake but I don’t think there’s a lot of people realise what they’ve got to thank these people. Particularly some of the air crew. There you go.
AC: So, after the war did anybody speak to you about what Bomber Command had done?
FB: I can’t think off hand, you know and I could have gone on. Strangely, I’d only been home about three weeks and I think I got a letter saying, perhaps you are fed up now being in civvy street and we, if you want to come back in to the Air Force you would get immediate upgrade, you know. Higher rank, you know. But I was home then. I’d got a couple of kids so I wasn’t interested in. I suppose I’m a little bit, you know. You never hear me making any complaint about what they were or even the ones that weren’t too good. If you was in the war you was in the war. And that’s it. Better than my brothers. They was in the Army. Well, I don’t know.
AC: Did, did you ever miss the RAF?
FB: I suppose I can’t really say yes because I was still only young. Back home, back in my job, I’d got two kids, earning good money and fairly, you know, no one saying what I got to do and if I wanted to go anywhere I’d go anywhere. But I still think that I know you get blokes saying you must have been bloody mad. But I really think that if you had to go, I didn’t have to I know but I think really by and large I think they were good lot of blokes really. There must have been some of the blokes that weren’t but by and large I think they were quite good and I can’t ever remember being in any real trouble, you know. I might have had my hat put on the wrong way but other than that I think they was quite good, you know and certainly the rest of the blokes and definitely the aircrew were. None of this, the aircrews that were in the station none of them [unclear] No. No. They’re all good blokes but perhaps we were just biased at the ones we chose.
AC: Did you stay in touch with any of your mates?
FB: No. Not now. I wouldn’t be. I did one or two. I saw one or two and then of course I went to visit one or two blokes who I was in civvy street with but that was a long while ago. I couldn’t even tell you their names now. So not, no as I say I married and got a couple of kids who have also got kids. So no, I don’t think and I stayed in the job I left right up until the firm closed down. And other than that, so I was still working when I was fifty eight so, you know.
[recording paused]
FB: To get to any reasonable rank you had four lots to get through there. AC1, AC2, AC1, LAC before you got to a corporal rank. So I, and I was, remember I was only young then but I did —
GB: You got promoted, didn’t you?
FB: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
GB: Was that a few things —
[recording paused]
FB: Really, what I told you. I don’t think I was deliberate. I’m just not that way. I’m not going to say I would like it. I might not like it but there you go. But for me you know but I’d like to think I did my best while I was in the force. I didn’t do anything really I might have done one, two or three silly little things but I didn’t do nothing that you shouldn’t do. So therefore, as far as I know I never had a bad word anywhere and I, as I say it takes you a while to get these promotions but when you think about it I was a boy in a sense but I don’t know if somebody said to me would you be proud to be in the forces? And I would say yes. The RAF. That’s what, I chose that. They didn’t put me in it. So, you know, and I’d sooner think I did the right thing even though I sometimes speak to people, ‘ Cor, Christ, I wouldn’t have liked to have been in that lot. Didn’t you have any time off?’ I said, ‘Time off? A bloody war on. What are you talking about? Time off.’ We did get a certain amount of time off but no I found most of the blokes and most of the officers and that, even the commanders I didn’t find them [unclear] I think if you behaved yourself they were alright. They don’t expect you to always, but they, they’re not nasty blokes like some of these people say. Bloody ridiculous. But there you go. But I’ve got a nice big one of those down at my daughter’s. That’s where that’s come from. But no —
AC: So, you came from quite a poor family.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Is that right?
FB: We were all poor in those days unless you were in work and had a job.
AC: And do you think you sort of built up your health and strength when you joined the RAF?
FB: Well, basically I must have done because I mean I had to leave school when leaving age was about fourteen, I suppose. Something like that. Because you needed to get out and get a job and I was fourteen and as far as I can remember to be honest now I don’t think I was, I’ve got a few things now but I was still doing things when I was eighty [unclear] And I think, I think the, I don’t know how bad the Army really is, or the Navy but I think the RAF was quite good and they were who we got the training from. They weren’t all mugs or anything like that but they were decent blokes. If you behaved yourself that was all they were asking for. So I’d already got, I don’t know perhaps I was just lucky. It might have been that.
AC: I’ve been told you did PT on Great Yarmouth beach. Is that right? Do you remember that?
FB: I don’t know whether I can. I must have done it. Must have done it. And route marches and things like that on a course like this, you know. Well, I mean I’d been in the Home Guard. I’d done a few. Not like that but it didn’t worry me. And I thought, by and large I still think if you’ve got to compare different countries I don’t think there’s one to [unclear] our country. Perhaps I’m just biased, you know.
AC: And when you were doing the Dambusters stuff.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Is that right you realised that there was something was going on? The bombs were a bit different.
FB: Oh yeah. I mean these were on a, weren’t like the ordinary bombs, you know. These were on a you know, on a [unclear] they looked like that but on a great big long what’s the name and you’d got up there. You’d got a crane but you’d no time for that. And so you’d dump them on as I say. Push the tray and then someone would take it over and take it out to the ‘drome and their blokes would put it on and they’d finish with it then. We weren’t of course because as soon as you got stuck down in would come a load more and you had a lot of work to do but so had lots of other blokes and some poor sods were in the front line so how can you, you know. I’ve never been that way. Just as now. I mean, lots of blokes now say, ‘Sod that,’ you know but I’ve never been like that and I like to think I behaved myself when I was in the forces. But yeah, I must have put some weight on. I think I must have been about, I don’t know eight or nine stone and a little while ago I weighed just on eleven stone. I don’t know. Twelve stone. Obviously, I don’t work now in that way. But no, I think when you talk about, we know it’s all rubbish about the grub‘s wrong but it’s not that bad and the cooks are not bad blokes either. So, I don’t think it was, it wasn’t like going to the Royal but I mean what do you expect? And I suppose we all had our little moans but I still think, I might be wrong but I think choosing the RAF was the wisest one. I think they were not so bad as maybe it’s different in the [pause] you know. I mean in the RAF you’re dealing with not only ground staff but you’re dealing with aircrew so I suppose perhaps don’t get so much, you certainly get some hard work but, you know. So —
AC: You mentioned the food there. I think sometimes you had to make do with sandwiches you weren’t keen on.
FB: Well, we did. Not the, all the camp didn’t. They were all right. 5 o’clock tea or whatever. We did because we had, as I say we got to get the loads out and you know talking about one lot, you’re talking about I don’t know could be ten or fifteen loads you got to get out and you’ve got to get them out and you’ve got to put them on there and you’ve got to send them out and the squadron armourer would take over then but their’s was not bad. They had a good job but I mean they didn’t have to get them out. They had to put them on. But that’s not, and that’s just them. You’ve got all the other bombs remember, even, you know for all kinds so you would be working all day a lot of the time and at times they’d say, ‘Well lads, we’ve got some nice grub for you coming out the line.’ [groan] Yeah. Because you’ll be working out here ‘til 8 o’clock. [laughs] So, but I don’t know. I suppose you must let them moan, isn’t it? I have a moan now sometimes. [unclear] I have to put him in his place. I don’t know. I don’t know how he’d have got on. I really don’t. Blimey, he’d been in the guardhouse and not come out for a long while I reckon. No. I think if you’re honest about it if you’re in the forces you’re in the forces and that’s that. There’s no good being [unclear] about it. You’ve got to [unclear] haven’t you up to a point so that’s it. I’ve never been in any trouble.
AC: Going, going back to your time in Palestine and Egypt I think there was some stuff going missing from your camp was there? Do you remember that?
FB: I can’t honestly say I do because we’re talking about ninety years ago nearly.
AC: In the latrines, was it?
FB: I thought basically where ever we were was not bad but I suppose I would say now, ‘Cor sod that. All that hard work,’ but like I say I was only twenty so, eighteen when I went in to the forces which I didn’t have to do but I did and so I don’t think, I still say that alright I’m biased I suppose but I still say the RAF is the best air force in the world. Whatever they say. Probably the other countries say the same but, you know.
AC: Is there anything I ‘ve not asked you about that you think might be of interest. Anything you can think of?
FB: Well, I can vaguely remember some. Vaguely, when there might have been some outside attack on the camp or something you know from outside. But I can’t even remember where they were or who they were. But they were nothing to them. Well, they were. They got in the way I suppose. But like as I said before there would probably be some things I wouldn’t know because like I said before if you was in the armoury that meant you had to work. There’s no doubt about that. Not like working in the office or some cushy little job. It wasn’t like that. You could be bleeding working hours all day. Grub brought out to you for your dinner. You know. Your dinner was, I don’t know 12 o’clock but about 8 o’clock at night. Get home by about often, where you was working at. You know. But no. I suppose in a way if I was one of these sort of persons that didn’t like [unclear] I’d probably say bloody [unclear] but I can’t say that. I’m not saying I would volunteer again. I’m a bit older now but you know. But no. I mean some of the times I went on was really good. Really good. But some weren’t so good of course. But there must have lots of things that went on that I can’t recall. I think I can vaguely, must have been something wrong with some, one or two aircraft got blown up somehow or other but I mean ninety years is a long while to think. I couldn’t even tell you the names of the camps I’ve been in. I couldn’t even tell you that and I liked that. We were there for a few years so I don’t know why. I don’t know and I don’t think [pause] I can’t say about today but I certainly don’t think it’s as bad as a lot of people would try and make out. If you’ve got to behave yourself you’ve got to behave yourself. So, I can’t say anything about simply because you know you think you’d go out when you liked and you can’t do that but I don’t think that’s myself. I’m not sure as I would do it again of course. I know better. But if we all thought that we’d all be marching along with the bloody Germans or something. You can’t do that. So, I don’t know.
AC: Well, that’s —
FB: Oh well. I’ll think. I could make it [unclear] When Gary’s, ‘What’s he on about. What’s he [unclear] I don’t know who they are?’ And I don’t know who you are of course, but I suppose I don’t know. I said, I don’t know [unclear] Bloody honour, I think. I don’t know but there you go, you know.
AC: Well, that’s, that’s been very interesting Frank and it will be very useful for our purposes so thank you.
FB: Well, as long as I’m only discussing things probably at one time I wouldn’t have bothered to answer it but I’ll try to be honest. I haven’t tried to pretend [unclear] several people or nothing like that. I haven’t done that. But what you really want it for I don’t know. But there you go, you know.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Frank Gerald Bassett
Creator
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Andrew Cowley
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-05-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABassettFG180517
Format
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01:00:02 audio recording
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Language
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eng
Description
An account of the resource
Frank was brought up in Woolwich. He joined the RAF at the age of 18 and became an armourer. Frank describes the difficult physical work, loading and unloading bombs. He served 617 Squadron and loaded bouncing bombs, which were different. He remembers RAF Coningsby, RAF Scampton, RAF Waddington and RAF Woodhall Spa. He also went with Bomber Command to Egypt and Palestine. Frank expresses his pride in the RAF.
Spatial Coverage
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Egypt
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Middle East--Palestine
North Africa
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Carolyn Emery
617 Squadron
bombing
bombing up
bouncing bomb
civil defence
ground personnel
Home Guard
military ethos
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1278/19539/BPilbeamAFParkerJJv20001.2.jpg
045c9054b68b128f34a509abfeb5e198
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Parker, John Joseph
J J Parker
Description
An account of the resource
14 items. The collection concerns Flying Officer John Joseph Parker (1062881, 121671 Royal Air Force) and contains documents, heirlooms and photographs. He served as ground personnel.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Ann Pilbeam and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-03-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Parker, JJ
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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Saturday 21st April 2001
I was talking to Dad this morning about the R.A.F.
I had realised that I did not know the number of his unit during the war. If future generations want to research this, then a number is invaluable.
So Flying Officer J.J. Parker was attached to
Number One Bomber Group / Grantham (Belton House)
He always reported in to other stations as well. He was attached to this group throughout the war but travelled anywhere wherever he was needed. 9I remember him arriving home on a motor bike!) He loaded up the bombs with his team – this was called ‘bombing up’, also incendiaries had to be loaded. He checked the guns and if there was any hitch or doubt about their efficiency he went with that particular flight. this would count in his night flights over Germany.
When the push was really on his men were exhausted and he would just have to rally them and urge them on.
They would welcome the planes home and check everything ready for the next flight. I asked him where he was on V.E. Day. He said he knew nothing about it as he was on a flight over Berlin. He admitted to me shear terror of those night flights.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
John Joseph Parker's service
Description
An account of the resource
A handwritten note by John Joseph Parker's daughter briefly outlining his service as a Flying Officer.
Creator
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B Pilbeam
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2001-04-21
Format
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Handwritten sheet
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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BPilbeamAFParkerJJv20001
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Bloomfield
1 Group
bombing up
incendiary device
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/909/11151/PKeyEG1701.2.jpg
446f2bc53516f423bbb73e042875614c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/909/11151/AKeyEG170904.1.mp3
71949a9e89b4c7baea15f165aa3da1e7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Key, Edward George
E G Key
Ted Key
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Sergeant Edward Key (1866522 Royal Air Force), his logbook, a newspaper cutting and two photographs of aircrew. After training as a flight engineer he joined 514 Squadron in February 1945 and flew 19 operations on Lancasters with 514 Squadron, as well as on operations Manna , Exodus and other humanitarian flights.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Edward Key and catalogued by Nigel Huckins..
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Key, EG
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is Monday the 3rd of September 2017 and I’m in Ruislip in what used to be called Middlesex with Ted Key, flight engineer. Ted what are your earliest recollections of life?
EK: Well, as I, as I, well I just said that I can remember my very large family in London. It’s like, you know there was so many of them but that was when we used to come down from Norfolk on holiday to see the rest of the family. But I was always pleased to get back and my father of course was not there because he was in the Navy all his life and of course, in those days they went away for two and three years minimal. My mother thought that having a sister in Norfolk would be a better place to go and to grow up and yes, I I loved the countryside. I got well involved in it too and I started at a junior school up there at about three or four years of age. Went through to the Church School which took me up to eleven and I was in the, associated with the church quite a bit. I was in the choir and as I’ve just said I joined the Cadets as ATC which was the Air Defence Cadet Corps in those days and it went on from there really. This went by and I left school with a school certificate and I just wandered in the Air Force more or less. Of course, they took me over at a fairly early age determined to go flying as it always did interest me. Unfortunately, the waiting list to become a pilot or navigator or bomb aimer was far too long so I said, ‘Well, what’s the next best thing?’ And they said, ‘Well, I think you’d make a good flight engineer.’ Which I pursued and passed out at St Athans and subsequent to that I joined the Royal Air Force. This was a most traumatic time in my life you know. Doing operations one after the other. Terrible things happened there on the station and to the people who flew from, out of the stations and I feel very very lucky to have survived all this trauma.
CB: Ok. We’ll come back to that. What were the most terrible things that you are talking about that happened on the station?
EK: On the station? Well, one of the things quite tied up with my village in Norfolk too which is old. We were on ops that night and I was up with my old station bike cycling around the perimeter and there was a fantastic explosion which blew me off my bike and bowled me up the road. I could see that one of the Lancasters was on fire and had been blown to pieces with two others, one each side. Apparently, they had been preparing the aircraft for our night’s operation and apparently a long delay fuse that they were fitting had got stuck and they tried to bring it out and they assume that it blew the bomb up. Eleven people were killed there and it wasn’t a pretty sight when I arrived. But it’s a small world. I, I was on leave about three or four weeks later and I went and saw one of my old ATC instructors who was there. So I said, ‘How is Geoffrey?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘He got killed in a flying accident.’ I said, ‘Oh, where’s that?’ So he said, ‘At Waterbeach.’ And it’s so extraordinary really. His father was, his father was putting it on a bit. It wasn’t a flying accident. It was a bombing up job, you know that they were doing. And he only lived a hundred metres from me in the village and yet, we almost, at Waterbeach we never came across one another. Primarily because I was a sergeant I suppose and he was a young rigger on radar. But what a close thing that was. Yeah. But terrible really. And there were several other accidents you know. People getting killed on operations. Yeah.
CB: What other things happened on the airfield?
EK: What?
CB: What other things happened on the airfield?
EK: Well, there was, we overshot one day. Hydraulics and pneumatics were badly knocked about on one of the, on one of the Lancasters and we overshot, went across the main Ely Road at great knots and into a potato field. It was quite funny really because all the escape hatches I had to discard and it dug it’s nose in and all these potatoes were whizzing around. It’s like [laughs] being picked up like a gigantic soup. Soup, you know [laughs] and in fact more dangerous than most of the flak that we had over there on the other side. But the farmer was very indignant. He was most upset about it all. I think one of our boys was going to put a right hand on him you know and all the rest of it but he calmed down and I think he got his compensation. But that was, that was quite a hairy moment [laughs]
CB: What happened to the crew members? Were they —
EK: Well, I don’t think they stopped running ‘til they got to Cambridge. No. That’s, that’s a joke. No. We just come, we all got out you know.
CB: I was thinking of the bomb aimer sticking in the nose.
EK: No. He was on the rest bay because we took up crash positions you know.
CB: Yeah. Right. So on landing he would be at the back.
EK: I think he was out of there.
CB: Yes.
EK: Oh yeah. It was full, the bomb aimers compartment with King Edwards [laughs] Yeah. And then of course you had collisions in the circuit. I remember those. Two or three of those collided with one another.
CB: What would be the result of that?
EK: Yeah.
CB: What would be the result of a collision in the circuit?
EK: What would be, well —
CB: The result.
EK: Mis-interpretation from flying control on different things where aircraft were.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And you were very tired and exhausted and, you know thought you were back. Back home. Yeah.
CB: But were they always fatal or sometimes were they, did they get the aircraft down?
EK: Most of them were fatal. Yeah. One or two got away with it but yeah. Yes.
CB: What would they be doing? They’d be, would they be in the circuit?
EK: In the circuit ready to land. Yeah.
CB: Or they’d be joining the circuit? Say again.
EK: Yeah. They’d be in the circuit to land.
CB: Yes.
EK: And sometimes you’d have, what? Fourteen, sixteen aeroplanes in the circuit.
CB: Coming back from an op.
EK: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And how was the ground communicating with the aircraft?
EK: Pretty good. It was. The Flying Control were pretty good. Yes. Alright. Yes, they used to have RT, you know.
CB: And they did use RT.
EK: Oh yeah. As well as aldis and that. Yes. Very good.
CB: So before take-off they would only use the aldis light.
EK: The green. Yeah. They’d give you the green.
CB: On landing they would be talking you down would they?
EK: They would. Yeah. Yeah. Not always. I mean I remember our satellite station at Downham Market which had FIDO.
CB: Yes.
EK: And I landed on FIDO once and they talked us down you know. It was very foggy. We got fogged off at Waterbeach but it was alright at Downham and you know he gave us a countdown. He said, ‘You’re lined up all right. Four miles.’ ‘Three miles.’ ‘Two miles.’ And then the next one, ‘Look ahead and land.’ And you still couldn’t see a bloody thing [laughs] But it did break at last when he went and you had to keep going straight because that was paraffin that was burning you know.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Under pressure. But we got down. Yes. Very hairy.
CB: This was the —
EK: Yeah.
CB: Origins of the airfield landing system.
EK: Oh yeah.
CB: Autumn.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Right. Going back to your earlier days what significant point was there with your family?
EK: Significant point?
CB: Your grandfather. What did he do?
EK: Well, my grandfather, well my other [laughs] my other grandfather on my father’s side was a school teacher at one time but instead of teaching he preferred to drink his wages away.
CB: Right.
EK: So he got the sack. And then, I thought it was rather funny he then joined the horse, he was a horse bus driver which I thought was rather funny having got the sack for drunkenness there they put him on the horses. And in the end he finished up as a porter on Waterloo Station. A lovely little man he was but you know the dreaded drink got to him I’m afraid as it did quite a lot of people.
CB: But the other grandfather? He was —
EK: Well, he was in Royal service.
CB: What did he do there?
EK: He was looking after the pictures, upholstery. A general factotum you know. If anything wanted polishing up and that kind of thing. Yeah. He was quite a —
CB: Was he there all his life or was he only there for a short time?
EK: As far as I know he was their apprentice. That’s a good question. I don’t know. He was a Huguenot, you know. We were French extraction that side —
CB: Yeah.
EK: Of the family.
CB: Right.
EK: And a very smart man. He used to go off to work I remember with his spats and pin stripe suit and his bowler hat you know. Yeah.
CB: And did he talk about what he did at the Palace? Or —
EK: No. I was only young really.
CB: He kept schtum. Yes.
EK: I was too young.
CB: Right.
EK: A very generous man. In fact, when we used to return to Norfolk from London he always used to give me two shillings you know which was an awful lot of money in those days and he hadn’t given it to me. And the train was about to go and I couldn’t stop myself. ‘Have you got my two shillings then?’ And I realised afterwards he was probably broke, you know. The poor old devil was probably down to his last couple of bob. Yeah. Yes. But my mother of course you know in retrospect after the war she had two of us. My father was sunk at the [unclear] , injured. There was me on operation. I used to tell her in lurid detail and I think afterwards, God that poor woman. She must have worried herself inside out. But you know she got through it all right. Yeah. Two of us away. Yeah.
CB: Your older brother or older brother?
EK: Pardon?
CB: Your brother?
EK: I had a —
CB: Just father.
EK: My father. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Did you —
EK: Well, when he was sunk and injured he went up to North Wales as an instructor on the new entry HMS Glendower. We got mentions in books. I’ve got pictures of him but that doesn’t interest —
CB: But he joined in 19 —
EK: ‘12.
CB: ‘12. Right.
EK: Yes. Saw both the Battle of Jutland and Heligoland, you know.
CB: So fast forward now into your schooldays. To what extent did you learn about what your father was doing when you were as young as that?
EK: Not very much. Not very much. I knew that he was in the Navy. I knew he was a chief petty officer and that he was away an awful a lot. Quite a hero to me.
CB: Yeah.
EK: I mean I wanted to join the Navy, of course. My father, and of course he wouldn’t have it.
CB: Oh.
EK: No. And he said, ‘No. If you join,’ he said, ‘You can join the Royal Air Force which —’ As a King’s Honorary Cadet by the way. Which sent me up to Cranwell.
CB: Oh.
EK: But I passed to go and then they changed the system, didn’t they? They trained all the pilots overseas so I missed out on that one. Yeah. I would probably have been an air marshal by now [laughs]
CB: So you joined the —
EK: Pardon?
CB: You joined the Air Defence Cadet Corps.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Because of father’s suggestion or did you decide yourself?
EK: No. My own. My friends were joining you know and we all sort of went together. I mean we really got stuck into it you know. We used to travel from Hull to Fakenham where our headquarters was. Twelve miles twice a week.
CB: Did you?
EK: There and back you know. Twice. And then they opened up in Holt so, yeah. But it was a good grounding. It was a very good grounding for the Air Force. Get a bit of discipline and you know, marching up and down etcetera etcetera. In fact, there was one funny episode that we used to do the summer camps and guess where we went to on that summer camp? I went to Waterbeach. Went there because I hadn’t been there. And of course all we, we had a real good time and two years later the young fellow there, Waterbeach. And of course, the Cadets used to come again and they used to come and knock on the flight commander’s door who was my skipper and, ‘Any chance of a flight, sir?’ ‘Of course, there is young man. Come in.’ You know, because I’d been through the, you know we used to take them up on the flight testing and that type of thing. I loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Used to tell us our jobs actually a lot of them.
CB: How many of the colleagues of yours in the Air Defence Cadet Corps joined the RAF?
EK: Yeah.
CB: Did all of them?
EK: No. No. Some actually went in the Navy. Some in the Army. But most of them went in to the Air Force.
CB: And what was the feeling that was motivating them to join the RAF? What did they want to do?
EK: I don’t know. Possibly uniform probably [laughs]
CB: What did you want to do?
EK: Well, I, I liked flying and so I did get motivated towards that. Yeah.
CB: Because you got flying as a Cadet.
EK: Yeah.
CB: As you just said. On air tests.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yes.
CB: So what was the first thing that happened when you joined the RAF? Where did you go?
EK: Well, as, well I went to Bridlington of course from that LCAC at St Johns Wood.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Up to Bridlington. That was where we did our square bashing and —
CB: What else did you do there other than square bashing?
EK: That was about all. That was about all.
CB: Morse Code?
EK: That. That and we were told that what we were going to do and then sent on leave. And then we were posted as I said back to Stradishall and Lakenheath. Yes.
CB: So you went in to [pause] they asked you did they what type of flying you wanted to do and what did you tell them?
EK: Oh yes. Yeah They did ask me. Of course everybody wanted to be a fighter pilot.
CB: Yeah.
EK: [unclear] and there you are.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Well, it was not for me. It was like the heavies as well. I mean I don’t think people wanted that but they grew to enjoy it I think. Well, not enjoy it but [pause] yeah.
CB: But they, what options did they give you? So, you said you wanted to be a pilot. Then what?
EK: Well, you’d have to come down. You’d have to be wireless operator, flight engineer or an air gunner. They were the cream, the pilots, navigators and bomb aimers.
CB: The PNBs.
EK: PNBs, yeah. Yeah. Very good.
CB: So how did you come to be an engineer?
EK: Well, that’s the only option there was open to me.
CB: Right.
EK: Because the waiting list was too long for a pilot. I thought Christ the war will be over and, but so I got in alright. Yeah. Yes.
CB: So —
EK: The skipper was a flight lieuie.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And the navigator was a flight lieutenant as well.
CB: Right.
EK: The bomb aimer was a flight sergeant.
CB: Right. So you’re, just going back to your speciality your decision was made for you because, is that what were you saying that flight engineer was the only one available at that time?
EK: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.
CB: So, where did you go from there?
EK: What? To school.
CB: Yes. So you went —
EK: 4 SFTT St Athans.
CB: Yes.
EK: South Wales.
CB: And before that you went to Locking.
EK: That’s right. Well, that was part of the same course.
CB: Oh, was it? Right.
EK: Because it was, they couldn’t cope with us all at one place so they had to open up Locking.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So what engineering experience, knowledge or interest did you have before that?
EK: Well, I used to like motor bikes quite a bit. A bit of speed you know. That seemed to go down quite well with them [laughs] Yeah. There you are. But that was it really.
CB: So you joined. You went to Locking and also St Athan.
EK: Yeah.
CB: What did you actually do in the training process? What did you have to do?
EK: Well, you had to know the aeroplane inside out. All the safety features and the operational standard of the bits and pieces. What you could do and what you couldn’t do, you know. That was about it really.
CB: But —
EK: Yeah.
CB: These were state of the art aircraft.
EK: Pardon?
CB: They were state of the art.
EK: They were.
CB: So hydraulics was a new idea.
EK: That’s right.
CB: The engines were pretty advanced.
EK: Yeah. They were very good. Yeah. The Rolls Royce. The integrity of the Rolls Royce engine even at the latter stage when the SU carbs on the Merlin 20s had the flow chambers and if you did anything untoward the floats would drop and cut the fuel off. But with the SU carbs, not the SU, the fuel injection carbs you didn’t have any problems like that and they kept going and all the years that I flew I had very little problems with engines, you know.
CB: So the training put a lot of emphasis did it on hydraulics and engines? How did they do that?
EK: Well, safety really. Yes. And all, all the systems. I mean the hydraulics. There was a backup system to the hydraulics and the pneumatics and things like that. You had to know where all the fuses were. Quite extensive. Yes.
CB: But all the training was there. You didn’t go out anywhere else. You didn’t go to Rolls Royce for training for instance.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Oh, you did.
EK: Yeah. We went up to AV Roe’s for a fortnight. A maintenance course and that was very good.
CB: The Lancasters in other words.
EK: Yes. Very good.
CB: And the hydraulics. What were they being used for in the aircraft principally?
EK: Flaps. Flaps mainly and undercarriage.
CB: Turrets?
EK: And the undercarriage.
CB: How were the turrets powered?
EK: And yeah, now they weren’t hydraulic. I think they were part electric, I think. Yes. I think so.
CB: Right. So during this time you were an LAC.
EK: Yeah. Halfway through the engineer’s course they made you an LAC.
CB: Yeah. And then what?
EK: Sergeant.
CB: When?
EK: At the end of the course you passed out as a sergeant.
CB: Ok. And how did you get your brevet?
EK: Oh, a big parade. Handed them out. Yeah. Very good.
CB: Marched to the front.
EK: Pardon?
CB: You had to march to the front.
EK: That’s right.
CB: And who would award the brevets?
EK: Well, it was the air commodore who was in charge of the technical chiefy there. He was the one who handed it all out. But they were so cruel the RAF I found. I mean I passed all right but I mean there was, oh say five or six of them in our hut failed the course and they watched us sewing our stripes on and our brevets and the next day they were off the case.
CB: And they didn’t get recoursed.
EK: Well, you could do if you were near the, near the margins but not very often. Failed, you know. Bang.
CB: So what would happen to them after the course? Where would they go?
EK: Join the Army or cooks or what I don’t know.
CB: Wouldn’t they go on to the flight line for the servicing of the aircraft?
EK: No. It was quite a long course you know if you’re a fitter and all the rest of it. Yeah.
CB: So after you finished at St Athan where did you go next?
EK: After St Athan. That was Stradishal.
CB: And what was that?
EK: That was Stirlings.
CB: Right. So that was the, what unit was that?
EK: That was a Heavy Conversion Unit.
CB: Ok.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So this is your first experience of flying is it?
EK: That’s right. The big boys. Yes. Very complicated fuel system too you know which I’d never been taught. But there you are.
CB: But you got instructed, you got taught on the airfield.
EK: Oh yes.
CB: Yeah. What was so complicated about the Stirling fuel system?
EK: The electrics. Anything that’s worked by electricity I try and stay clear off. But you see the undercarriage on a Stirling for instance if it didn’t come down you were in trouble because you had to manipulate it down with a handle. Each motor by hand. Seven hundred and fifty turns on each one. Yes.
CB: Did you practice that?
EK: No. No. We had to do it a couple of times because they weren’t down. We didn’t get the green light on somewhere. Shut them down and once I came in cross landing we nearly tore all the port undercarriage off completely. And we went about three circles.
CB: So was that because of the, why was it a cross wind landing?
EK: [unclear] yeah.
CB: Yeah, but why was that? Was there something wrong with it?
EK: No. There was something wrong with the airfield controller which, which the screened pilot made doubly sure. He said, ‘Unfortunately I’ve damaged the aircraft with regret and it’s your bloody fault,’ he said [laughs] Yeah.
CB: So they couldn’t repair it or that was just an exaggeration?
EK: No. Because the trouble with the Stirling was the wingspan was ninety feet and they cut it down from a hundred and two which the Lancaster was because it wouldn’t, the Stirling wouldn’t fit in a service hangar.
CB: The original size. Yeah.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So how long were you on the Stirlings?
EK: Pardon?
CB: How long were you on the Stirlings at the HCU?
EK: Oh, not [pause] Six weeks. Something like that.
CB: Then you went to —
EK: Oh, then I went on to the squadron.
CB: No. You went —
EK: No. LFS.
CB: Ok. What was that?
EK: Lancasters.
CB: Lancaster Finishing School.
EK: That’s right.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So, you were used to the Stirling. How different was the Lancaster?
EK: Well, it was desperately underpowered the Stirling. Nice aeroplane to fly. A nice aeroplane to work in. You’ve got plenty of room. I mean you’ve been in a Lancaster. You know —
CB: Yeah.
EK: You’re squashed in.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And quite different. But that was, that was the reason. Yeah. A lot of people thought they were very good.
CB: A number of people were very enthusiastic about Stirlings. The, when you got to the Lancaster though how different was it in terms of the engineering work you had to do?
EK: Well, the integrity of the whole thing, the bits and pieces, you know were ten times better than the Stirling. You always had mechanical problems you know. Yeah.
CB: And when you were on the Lancaster did, was it the same as the Stirling that you had to synchronise the engines?
EK: Yeah.
CB: And how did you do that?
EK: You just look along the blades.
CB: Yeah. And how did you —
EK: They come up.
CB: How would you adjust the location?
EK: On the throttle. RPM levers.
CB: Right.
EK: Right. You could look along the [pause] and we used to do that on the Lancasters the same. Yeah.
CB: So were you balancing the two engines on each wing or in the end did you balance all four?
EK: Balanced all four.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: And did you use a pitch change to do that as well?
EK: That’s right. Yeah.
CB: And why was it so important to balance the engines?
EK: Well, I suppose [pause] I don’t know. We just, not, the noise level went down of course as they got out of sync as well. But —
CB: And the vibration was reduced.
EK: Well, vibration. Yeah.
CB: So you got to the squadron. How did you feel about that?
EK: Very good. Yes. I was [pause] I always remember going on the first one or two ops which was Krefeld and they were [pause] the flak, we went into flak and I thought, I couldn’t believe it that they were trying to bloody kill me. I thought my this is a bit much, you know. This was for real and you know pretty hairy at times because we had to throw out the Window, the aluminium coated stuff which diverted the flak and I used to take, take a couple of slices with me and sit on them in case I got hit up the back side [laughs] yeah. Yeah.
CB: Where did you sit in the —
EK: Pardon?
CB: Where did you sit in the aircraft?
EK: Alongside the pilot.
CB: Right.
EK: The pilot.
CB: On a folding seat.
EK: Yeah. A folding seat which was, you could make permanent.
CB: So, thinking of take-off then what was your role during the take off?
EK: Well, my role was to see that all the temperatures and presses were ok. Then we’d do a mag drop. You’d have the right settings for the flaps and away you went. But that was one of the most hairiest things, you know. Sometimes if you were on a short runway at Waterbeach you could see Cambridge coming up to you very rapidly, you know. And you’ve got eight and a half tonnes of bombs underneath you. Quite exciting [laughs]
CB: Yeah. And you were helping with the throttles, were you?
EK: Yeah. What happened was of course as you know there’s a, there’s a [unclear] to the port with the propellers so what you want to do is get the ass end up so you can get rudder control and straighten it out on your rudders you see. And then when you’re halfway up the box he would say to me, ‘Full power.’ And then I’d take the throttles over and I push them right through the gate to go and that was it and then you draw the flaps in slightly. Not too much or you’d drop out the sky. Yes.
CB: Were they progressive adjustment? The flap, the flaps or were they in notches?
EK: They were progressive. There was no notches. No. You could, you could pull them and the rest [unclear]
CB: Just come out gently.
EK: That’s right.
CB: How long could you keep the throttles through the gate?
EK: Well, I don’t know. Some went quite some way because if you started to lose power on one of the engines you would have to keep the power on then. Yes. There was right hairy incidents in that respect. Yeah.
CB: So you’re heavily laden when you take off.
EK: Eight and a half tonnes. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And we’re in the Lancaster now.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. So how did the operations go? What were the difficult ones there?
EK: Well, there was, there was never an easy one. I’m afraid I don’t lose any sleep over Dresden or anything like that which I was on. Chemnitz. But weather was a big bugbear because I remember going to Chemnitz, I think. Something like that. We got the wrong winds and we popped up through cloud and there were mountains there and we’d come out over the middle of Switzerland instead of well to the left of it, you know. Yeah. And the rear gunner said, ‘There’s bloody mountains down there. What’s all the —’ ‘What are you talking about?’ He said. ‘Oh God.’ You know. Fortunately, the Alps were about seventeen thousand so we were alright. You could get well above. Yeah.
CB: So on your, on each op what after you’ve got airborne then you fold the seat and you’ve got other things to do.
EK: Yeah.
CB: What else do you have to do?
EK: Well, every twenty minutes —
CB: As a flight engineer.
EK: Yeah. Every twenty minutes you would monitor the pressures and temperatures of all the engines and various adjustments to different things you know. There was the oxygen system, nitrogen system and then the manipulation of the fuel. You had to take the fuel out in a certain pattern you know. You’d turn four tanks. You would empty the outboard ones in to Number 2 and then you’d go on the big one. Then you’d do an hour each or something like that, you know. It was, it was quite complicated and you’d keep your eye on it.
CB: So you’re draining from the outboard tanks into the tank that’s between the two engines are you?
EK: That’s right.
CB: First.
EK: That’s right.
CB: Yeah. Right.
EK: Yes.
CB: And then the main tank is the one inboard.
EK: That’s right.
CB: Of the inner engine.
EK: Five forty that was. The other was two eight something and the outboard ones were one one four. A hundred and fourteen gallons. Yeah. But we had some exciting times if you see one of those operations there we we had an aircraft blow up just to our starboard side and it tipped us upside down.
CB: Oh, it did.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Right. So —
EK: And we came down in a spin and we pulled out just under three thousand feet from that. We thought that was a good night you know. Fortunately, we managed to regain control and went out of it. One of the engines was packing up but we made it back home.
CB: So when you became inverted what was the state of the crew because you’re just standing at that moment aren’t you?
EK: Oh screaming. Well, some of them were screaming and, because the only thing that saved us in this particular instance was the skipper said to me, ‘Oh, Ted,’ He said, ‘Will you take my chute to be packed?’ So I had to sit on that type chute.
CB: Yeah.
EK: We had the clip-on observer type ‘chute. I said, ‘Yeah.’ And I took it in and of course when we got into this disaster he said, ‘Ted, we’ve got to bale out,’ because we were manipulating this. He said, ‘What can we do?’ He said, ‘We’ve got to bale out,’ he said. He said, ‘Hand me my ‘chute.’ I said, ‘I can’t get mine.’ And I said, ‘You have got the same type of ‘chute as I have at the back here.’ Because when we went upside down, you know everything fell everywhere you see as you could well imagine. And so he had to stick in his seat and fortunately you know opposite rudder stick fully forward it came out. Came out. Which we were very very lucky.
CB: To what extent would you be monitoring speed because you’d be cruising at what when that happened?
EK: About two thirty.
CB: Ok. And then when you were in the dive what speed were you doing then?
EK: Well, we wrote the aircraft off. The main spar was bent nine inches from the tip to the inside. The, the manufacturer’s boys came and saw it and they just winced. They said, ‘I don’t know how it stayed on.’ [laughs] Yeah. We lost one or two bits and pieces. There you are.
CB: But in your case were you standing at that moment? You weren’t strapped in were you?
EK: No.
CB: So —
EK: I fell into the roof.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So the plane’s upside down. What was the first thing he did to get it back because you’re effectively in a vacuum?
EK: Well, I couldn’t see much but we were struggling with our throttles.
CB: Yeah.
EK: All the time.
CB: You then moved forward to the throttles did you.
EK: That’s right. Then we, yeah.
CB: Right.
EK: And between us we sort of went, you know full fire he said, ‘Oh, bring in these,’ and, ‘Look at that.’ You know. Yeah. What happened was that that aircraft, it was one of ours too blew up. We came in and it must have got hit by something or other because when you go onto the target of course you all tend to go in.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And you’d got to watch the guy up top as well who was about.
CB: This chap was just underneath was he? That’s why it tipped you over when it exploded.
EK: Just to the right hand side underneath. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Right. So I’m just trying to get a grip of what actually was happening with the pilot and you because the aircraft is upside.
EK: [unclear]
CB: Yeah. The aircraft is upside down.
EK: Yeah.
CB: How did he, did he right it or did he simply pull back on the stick to go down?
EK: Yeah. It came out. The stick fully forward opposite rudder.
CB: Yeah. But did it —
EK: Yeah.
CB: You were upside down at that moment.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So he wouldn’t pull the stick forward would he?
EK: In a, I think it was a —
CB: Because he’s upside down so he’s got to pull it back.
EK: I can’t remember.
CB: Anyway, you got —
EK: Anyway, they —
CB: You went into a spin.
EK: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And how, how intense is the spin in a thing like that because it’s really big?
EK: Well, G forces. You couldn’t move.
CB: No.
EK: I mean, he says move, you know, ‘Bale out.’ You’re sort of clamped.
CB: You never moved. No.
EK: Around here you know. It’s, well more or less given up. My wireless operator said, I said, ‘What did you think of that, Ken.’[laughs] He said, he said, ‘I thought my poor old mum opening up that telegram in the morning to say that I’d gone.’ You know.’ We got away with it. Yeah.
CB: How many spins do you reckon you did before it came out?
EK: I don’t know. We were down to under three thousand feet.
CB: Yeah.
EK: We had bits of fir tree stuck on to his aerial. The wireless operator, ‘Look at this,’ he said. It was lower than bloody three thousand feet. He said, ‘What’s this?’ Because I remember looking out the window and I could see flames coming out of a high rise building so that must have been, we must have been very low.
CB: Yeah. What was the ground level at that time? Were you in high ground? Or —
EK: We were at pretty high ground.
CB: Yeah.
EK: But you know of course we came out and away we went.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Very very lucky to get back but —
CB: So was this, this was after you’d actually released the bombs was it?
EK: Yeah.
CB: Right.
EK: Thank God.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. And it was going to be an easy target. Gelsenkirchen. A small oil refinery business, you know.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. Some of the, some of the ports we did like Hamburg, Kiel, Bremen [Bremerhaven] were very very heavily defended. Yeah.
CB: How often did you collect flak?
EK: Every time. Every time. We always, I mean the most we had, we had thirty six holes in the aircraft. Yeah.
CB: So when you got back to your station at Waterbeach what was the reaction of the ground crew to all this flak?
EK: Oh yeah.
CB: Damage? What did they say about that?
EK: Well, they thought we were all crazy and they thought a lot of us. They thought we were you know good eggs. We used to take them out and buy them a couple of pints. Yeah. And I used to sort one or two of them out too which was good. I used to say, ‘You coming with me today?’ I said, ‘We’ll take you up on a trip.’ I thought well he’s put all the screws back in the right place if he did. Yeah. He was quite pleased.
CB: After a trip whose job was it to brief the ground crew about the state of the aircraft?
EK: Mine and the skipper. The pilot. He had to sign what they called was a form 700B I think it was and that would give clearance before he went and also when he came back he would write a little report and so would I.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: But you would actually be telling the crew on the, on the hard standing would you?
EK: Oh yeah.
CB: The ground crew.
EK: Once my navigator who was, who was six foot eight and a half. Can you imagine someone that big and he was a very tall man as I just said and he was leaning forward to get to some maps and he pulled his oxygen mask out. His clipped on tube. And we were going along there, you know minding our own business and all of a sudden the curtain opened and he was there with everything packed up. He said, ‘I’ve had enough of this,’ he said, ‘I’m packing up and going home.’ I said, ‘I hope we’re all going home.’ And it was a lack of oxygen to come through.
CB: Amazing.
EK: I saw what had happened and we plugged him in and he came around and he didn’t know what the hell he’d been doing. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: When you got back from the experience of the aircraft being inverted and then getting out you were lucky to get away with it.
EK: Absolutely.
CB: What was the reaction of the crew when everybody got to the ground?
EK: Well, you know I can’t remember really. Elation I think to a degree. But yeah, we all thought, I thought it had gone and we’re not going to control it. Yeah.
CB: I was wondering whether you were so exhausted you went straight to bed or you went to celebrate at the local pub.
EK: Well, you had to be debriefed.
CB: Yes.
EK: You had all the people in there asking you this and that. Which you wanted to do. You wanted to go to bed but there you are. Of course, we had a lot of Canadians and New Zealanders with us so some tough lads. Yeah. Good lads.
CB: But in your crew were they all British?
EK: All British. Yeah.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: What other experiences did you have? What about fighter [doorbell ringing] fighter attack? I’ll stop this for a mo.
EK: Yes. Oh yes. We had that.
[recording paused]
CB: So, what about fighter attack?
EK: Oh yes.
CB: What happened with that?
EK: We had one determined guy. A JU88 who gave us a couple of squirts but our boys fought him off. I assume we did the normal, you know.
CB: You did a corkscrew, did you?
EK: What do they call it now?
CB: The corkscrew?
EK: Corkscrew. That’s right. And we lost him but two or three others took an interest in us[laughs] you know. I mean if you’d got a daylight raid some of them would be sitting up there waiting with you. Watching it all, you know.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. They were pretty good too the Germans let me tell you.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yes. Very clever.
CB: So how many times did you actually get attacked by German fighters?
EK: Oh, only three or four which were sorting us out, you know.
CB: How often did they hit you?
EK: Not very often. Once or twice.
CB: What sort of damage?
EK: They had .5s on them too. If they did hit you it was fairly lethal.
CB: Yeah.
EK: That was a bone of contention with us. That the armament just wasn’t there.
CB: No.
EK: 303s I mean.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Were like peashooters.
CB: Of course.
EK: That were there.
CB: And they’d got twenty millimetre cannon.
EK: That’s right. That’s right. Yes. Very good.
CB: Yes.
EK: Yes. It was quite exciting and they had some very good radar you know that they could do with our H2S system. They could pick that up and come up. Come up the beams underneath and they always attacked underneath, you know. They were coming in and give you, they’d got their own and give you a squirt and they were gone.
CB: So they’d got their upward firing —
EK: That’s right.
CB: Cannon. Their Schrage musik
EK: Music. Yeah.
CB: Yes. You knew about that.
EK: Yeah. Oh yeah.
CB: Yeah. Were you briefed about before you set off on ops?
EK: No. Not very much. I think they didn’t want to tell you too much. Might pack it in [laughs]
CB: Yes.
EK: Yeah.
CB: And the plane next to you that exploded.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Was that caught with that do you think?
EK: That was [pause] we don’t know. We don’t know. We knew the crew of course. I knew the wireless op was a very good singer.
CB: Oh.
EK: Poor little bugger.
CB: So none of them survived that one.
EK: No. No. No. It’s like that one I was telling you earlier about. About the explosion on the airport. I mean they couldn’t find a piece bigger than a postage stamp. I mean you know when a four and a half thousand pounder goes off it spreads over. Dreadful.
CB: On that topic of the bomb load what combination of bombs would you carry?
EK: Well, they were all down there if you want to see. Normally [pause] normally you’d got a cookie.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Which was a four and a half thousand.
CB: And that’s just a barrel.
EK: Yeah. It is yeah.
CB: Yeah. Has no fins anything.
EK: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we’d got —
CB: And what about the other bombs? The [iron?] bombs.
EK: Yeah. Depending on what target you were going the incendiaries. A lot of incendiaries.
CB: Yeah. What size were incendiary bombs?
EK: Yeah. Oh —
CB: What size were they?
EK: Bigger than the German ones. I would say they were about, you know.
CB: I’ll get it. I’ll get it.
[pause]
EK: Yes.
CB: What sort of size?
EK: They were about that high and big. Oh, you know [unclear] basically, yes.
CB: But the bigger ones that were high explosive. What sort of size were they?
EK: Two fifty, five hundred and then there’s the cookie. Four, four and a half. And then the double cookie. The ones that were stacked together.
CB: Right.
EK: So, they were, they were quite big. Yes, and they had, some had some special fuses on. They had biometric fuses that if they contact the earth they go. And pretty lethal. The trouble is they were between my legs all the way out there [laughs]
CB: How did you feel about that?
EK: Yeah. Oh, we had a funny little incident there. Well, one of our jobs with the bomb aimer and myself you had to go down in the compartment, there’s a little one and you shone your torch right down through the bomb bay. [coughs] Tom [unclear] ‘Bombs all gone.’ So and so and put his down. There’s a two hundred and fifty pounder hanging there. I said, ‘Tom.’ Oh dear. He tried to wrestle it free but he couldn’t get it. He went down the back of there. So in the end we decided to land with it. Well, we couldn’t do much so we got, we got undercarriage down. We had a green, not two greens but a bloody red light shone there. It couldn’t be worse could it? Still there. So I said, ‘What are you going to do?’ You know. He said, ‘Well we’ve got to land with it on and hope it’s just a faulty electrical switch and not —’ so. So I said to the skipper [coughs] ‘When you taxi in don’t open the bomb doors bays.’ Because we always used to to take the pressure of the hydraulic system. Anyway, we got there [pause] psst and this bomb fell out. Right. Two hundred and fifty pounder. It wouldn’t detonate because they had to fall quite a few feet before they become fused. There’s a little spinner on the front and that spins and falls off and then it detonated. But they didn’t know that, you know and we didn’t really know. But to see this thing fall on the floor God [laughs] they dived everywhere. I said, ‘What did I bloody say?’ You know, ‘Don’t do it.’ ‘Oh yeah. Sorry.’ Yeah. So we got away with that one all right. Yeah.
CB: But when you load up with the bombs then they are normally secured without priming —
EK: That’s right.
CB: At what point are the fuses effectively primed? Is it when you cross the coast?
EK: By the point that. Eh?
CB: Is it when you cross the coast? Is it on the run in?
EK: No. No. No. No. No. They are primed all the time.
CB: And then. Right.
EK: So when you release them.
CB: Yeah.
EK: They become —
CB: The spinners.
EK: The spinners. Have to drop it.
CB: Right.
EK: The spinners drop off probably a thousand feet. Something like that. Yeah.
CB: This one that’s been found in Frankfurt.
EK: Oh yeah [laughs] Probably one of mine.
CB: Yeah. So what size was that? That was not a cookie ‘cause it’s not that big.
EK: No. No. No.
CB: They’re talking about one and a quarter tonnes. Well —
EK: Yeah.
CB: What size is that as an iron bomb?
EK: Yeah. About two hundred and fifty pounders, five hundred pounders. Yeah.
CB: They probably —
EK: Apparently, there are hundreds of them out there still.
CB: There are. Yes.
EK: Right. How are we doing? Are we nearly there?
CB: Right. So what we’ve done is to just talk about some of the highlights.
EK: Yeah.
CB: But what other highlights were there in the raids?
EK: Yeah.
CB: Did you get any other? What about collisions with other aircraft? Did you see any of those?
EK: No. No. Oh, I’ve seen collisions.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Oh yeah. Because it was a big bone of contention that there is what they called scarecrows.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Have you heard that?
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
EK: Well apparently the Germans were backing up there was no such thing.
CB: No.
EK: It was aircraft coming down.
CB: Yeah. It was Schrage music.
EK: That’s right. Oh and by the way that is the big fighter, Schrage musik or —
CB: The explosion. Yeah.
EK: Yeah. So that used to happen a lot and they used to say it’s only a scarecrow but it wasn’t.
CB: So you’d see big explosions sometimes would you?
EK: Oh yeah. Coming down like. That’s why I never want to see fireworks again. Turns me off. Yeah.
CB: What about actual collisions?
EK: Yeah.
CB: What sort of collisions did you see?
EK: I’ve seen two or three aircraft hit one another.
CB: How would that be? In the bomb run in or what?
EK: Yeah. Well, on the run in as I say you get this thing where you squeeze up you see.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. If I think of any more I’ll let you know.
CB: And then in the circuit. You talked about collisions there.
EK: Yeah. That was bad.
CB: Simply because of the numbers.
EK: That’s right. And take off as well which not so many but, you know that was always a hairy time. Take off. Yeah. Sometimes you’d do your mag check and you were allowed a four hundred drop on each engine and it would be [unclear] around it and you’d think should I abort? You know. No. We’ll have a go. But sometimes I think I did the wrong thing but —
CB: How often did you have engine failure when you were on ops?
EK: Twice.
CB: And what happened there?
EK: Well, feathered one. Had enough fuel to get back no problem. And the other one I don’t know what the problems were. Yeah. No, they just stopped you know.
CB: Damaged from flak?
EK: They were because the water cooled engine is very vulnerable to flak and yeah I remember one. One. It did get hit by something and the water came out and the vibration in a matter of seconds. It just seized solid at the back you know. That’s why you had to feather quickly. Yeah.
CB: You could always feather could you?
EK: Not always. It depends on where it hit the aircraft. It was, they were pretty good.
CB: So the aircraft is now unbalanced so does it fly slower or do you increase the revs on the other engines to keep going?
EK: You increase the revs but it does. You could trim it out. Yeah. Yeah. The stability, the stability of the Lancaster was very good. If you flew one you know when you operate it was very slow if you wanted to go left. And it would, you’d say, ‘Come on. Where are you going?’ [laughs] Yeah.
CB: Sort of delayed action was it?
EK: Yeah. A little bit.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah.
CB: And in the process of flying the aircraft was the pilot aware that, was the pilot using auto pilot or was that not very effective?
EK: Yeah. He used to use autopilot. He used to use me. I used to sit up there.
CB: You’d sit there occasionally.
EK: Yeah.
CB: While he went back.
EK: Yeah. Yeah. He’d go and have a talk to the navigator or anything like that. Yeah, because it was very much the Air Force in those days and it’s not like that now I’m glad to say. There was them and us you know. The officers and the NCOs they were poles apart. Now Waterbeach for instance the two officers there Bert Alderson and Alan Lacey. I’d never been in the officer’s mess all the time I was with them. Never went in there. Yes.
CB: But did they come in the Sergeant’s Mess?
EK: No.
CB: No.
EK: We invited them in at Christmas I think it was or if we had a game of soccer or something like that.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So but you would go out as a crew would you?
EK: Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Very very tight I would say.
CB: You were the family.
EK: Yeah. We were. We were.
CB: And to what extent did you keep in touch after the war?
EK: Quite tight because as I say the reunions came about but the first few years after the war we’d all got marriages and had kids and education to do so I don’t expect we did as much. We were [pause] And I think aircrew were very badly treated you know in lots of other —
CB: Why do you think that was?
EK: I don’t know. Well, a lot of this saturation bombing and bombing got through you know. Through the papers to the public. And murderers and all the rest of it. They forget they started it didn’t they?
CB: Absolutely. But to what extent did that come to the surface after the war or was it only in later years?
EK: Later years it was. Yeah. Yes.
CB: Now you, the war came before you’d finished your full tour, did it? The war end came.
EK: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Before the war, in other words VE Day.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Which was the 8th of May.
EK: Yeah.
CB: How did you all feel about that?
EK: Well, we were quite elated that it was all over but we didn’t know what they were going to do with us you know. But yeah it was good. Funnily on that day, VE day I went on a food dropping exercise to Holland. Operation Manna.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And on VE Day the skipper said to us, ‘We’ve got work to do. Sorry. No day off.’ ‘What are you talking about?’ And we had to go and drop this food in Amsterdam so we all had our best blues on. Everything on. Dropped the food, came back and I was on the first train out of Waterbeach to London and I opened the carriage door and it was full of Americans there [cheer] Good stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So you were on your way home.
EK: Yeah.
CB: For leave.
EK: Yeah.
CB: How soon did they recall you?
EK: I can’t remember now. A couple of weeks I think. Yeah. Not very long. It was never very long.
CB: Going back a bit your experiences were varied but horrendous.
EK: Yes.
CB: Some people took it better than others.
EK: Oh yeah.
CB: To what extent did you, were you aware of or did you know of people cracking up?
EK: Very few. I know one or two that cracked up. Very ill. But not many.
CB: What sort of circumstances would those be?
EK: Well, they would just have a breakdown. They couldn’t do it anymore. One, one chap I knew in particular, you know. In fact, it was so funny. This guy that packed it in, I admire him really. His skipper was Johnnie Parnell, a Flight lieuie. And I was in British Airways in the design office there and I’m sitting there. I see this figure go by and four gold bands on his arms and I rattled on the, ‘Come in here.’ I said, ‘I wouldn’t let you borrow my bloody bike let alone flying an aeroplane.’ ‘I’ve got this,’ he said, you know. He was a captain. Vanguards. Amazing. Yeah. Did very well.
CB: What circumstances caused people to get LMF in this case?
EK: Just scared. Just so. I think I admire a lot of them that did it because it must have taken a hell of a lot to do and in the initial stages it was pretty horrendous. They would take you out on the square and rip your brevets off and stuff. So I’ve heard, you know. I haven’t seen it myself. But yeah.
CB: So what happened to this chap? He was a pilot with Parnell’s?
EK: Pardon?
CB: You said this chap was a pilot with —
EK: Oh, that. That wasn’t the one that went LMF.
CB: Oh.
EK: He was the skipper.
CB: Ah.
EK: The bloke that went LMF was a flight engineer the same as I.
CB: Oh right.
EK: And he used to confide in me a bit you see. ‘I know I’m going to die,’ he’d say. ‘I know I’m going to die,’ and all this, you know. Yeah.
CB: What did they do with him?
EK: I don’t know.
CB: But they took him away did they?
EK: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: What’s the reaction of other crews to that sort of situation?
EK: I don’t know. I can’t say. I can’t say. I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess. I’d only be guessing as I said. Yeah.
CB: But interesting to know the guess because from our point of view we’ve no idea was it like.
EK: Know what?
CB: We’ve no idea what it was like so —
EK: No.
CB: I’d be interested to know what your guess was.
EK: I don’t know. But he was a very very frightened lad and you know he even lost a lot of weight. He was terribly scared. Yeah. Well, he was very scared.
CB: So that was the LMF one. The other one was the —
EK: Lack of moral fibre.
CB: Yeah. The other one you mentioned was, who was later an airline captain.
EK: Oh yes. I —
CB: What happened to him?
EK: Well, he was alright. He was alright.
CB: Later. But what happened to him that made him —
EK: Well, he came out of the Air Force.
CB: Yes.
EK: Joined British Airways.
CB: Yeah. But what happened when he was in the RAF to cause him to —
EK: No, he was alright.
CB: Oh, he was.
EK: He did his tour.
CB: Oh, I see. He wasn’t an LMF type.
EK: No. No.
CB: Ok. Right.
EK: No. No.
CB: No.
EK: No.
CB: Ok. Right.
EK: Well, I mean, losing, I’m losing my voice.
CB: Yeah. I was going to say we’ll pause there for a bit.
EK: Yeah. That’s alright.
[recording paused]
EK: From there.
CB: What, the flash?
EK: It went over anyway.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. It is a big aeroplane.
CB: Pardon?
EK: It is a big aeroplane.
CB: Yes.
EK: Now my mate, old Brian Hallow of 44 Squadron he was with Nettleton on the Augsburg.
CB: Oh, yes.
EK: Daylight one.
CB: Yes.
EK: He got a DFC. Mad as a hatter. He used to fly Manchesters and he wouldn’t have anything said about them. He said to me, ‘There’s nothing wrong with them,’ he said and he used to do an upward roll in a bloody Manchester. I said, ‘Alan, what was that like? ‘Well,’ he said, ‘It was alright.’ He said, ‘But all this shit on the floor came all around me.’ He said, ‘It was most uncomfortable.’ While he’d done an upward roll in a Manchester all he could talk about was the dirt that had accumulated on the floor all around him [laughs] Yeah. Yes, he was a character he was.
CB: Some people probably had to be mad to be able to do the tasks.
EK: Oh yeah. Yeah. And I saw [pause] I saw a picture of his medals the other day in one of my magazines.
CB: Nettleton.
EK: Not Nettleton. Nettleton was killed.
CB: Oh yeah.
EK: Shortly after the Augsburg one.
CB: Yeah.
EK: But no, Brian Hallow.
CB: Brian Hallows. Yes.
EK: Yeah. He [pause] I’ve forgotten what I’m bloody talking about now. Oh, his medals.
CB: Yes.
EK: They’re up for sale.
CB: Oh.
EK: Now God knows. I wouldn’t have thought he’d have sold them.
CB: No.
EK: But he got DFC, CBE and a whole, of course, he was promoted to wingco and was an air attaché in Washington somewhere.
CB: Oh right.
EK: And a lovely bloke. In fact, we used to meet on leave and I was only a flight sergeant then and he was a flight lieutenant and he’d say, ‘Come on Ted. We’ll go and have a drink. Go to the Feathers.’ I said, ‘I can’t go in the ruddy Feathers.’ He said, ‘Why?’ I said, ‘That’s officers only.’ ‘What a load of bullshit,’ he said. ‘Come with me.’ So in we went, I got behind him, he strode in and the manager was there. ‘Excuse me, sir,’ he said, ‘We can’t serve your friend.’ So and so. Oh, a tirade came out you know.’ He said, ‘You ‘f’ing pom. You’ve been sitting on your fat asses there doing bugger all —’ he said, ‘While we’ve been fighting the war,’ he said, ‘Us two.’ He said, ‘Now get the bloody beers in.’ Oh, he had them going around you know. It all went quiet and then it was alright. Cheers. Same again? All the best lad.’ [laughs]
CB: And the whole pub reacted well, did it?
EK: Yeah. It was alright. Well, they were all servicemen.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Mostly. Yeah. Old Brian. Grand fellow he was.
CB: What happened to him in the end?
EK: He just died of old age.
CB: Right.
EK: He got through it all. Had tonnes of money. His father had a stream of steam laundries you know so he wasn’t hard up. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I’ve got to do this.
[recording paused]
EK: You know, to bring them back.
CB: Oh, this was Operation Exodus was it?
EK: I think it might have been called that.
From [unclear]
EK: I know he said, he said to my skipper, he said, well he said to me, ‘Have you got a couple of people who can help me on with my luggage on to the aeroplane?’ My skipper was there. He said, ‘This is a crew member,’ and so and so. And he said he’s eight hours work to do on this aeroplane to take you home.’ He said, ‘I’m sure you can find someone to load your stuff on.’
CB: Who was this chap?
EK: He was, he was a colonel or something you know. Oh yes. He thought he should have pole position. So we stuck him right down at the back on a number painted on the floor and said, ‘Bloody well get on with it.’ There were some nice little jobs.
CB: He’d been holding —
EK: I always remember when we were bringing troops back from Brussels and all the, all these prisoners of war had been going around all over the place and one came up to the aircraft and he had a brand new Mercedes motorbike around there. He said, ‘It’s yours.’ He said, ‘I’ve finished with it now. I’m coming with you.’ I said, ‘You’re joking.’ I couldn’t get the bloody handle bars through the, through the back. It would have been worth a fortune.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Had to leave it there.
CB: Couldn’t stick it in the bomb bay.
EK: No. No. [laughs] No.
CB: There’s no strength in the bomb doors is there?
EK: Oh no. No. They’re purely cover up. Yes.
[recording paused]
EK: Right. But we had a little WAAF behind me.
CB: On the Cook’s Tours.
EK: On the Cook’s Tours and the thing is we used to be in formation and some of the boys [unclear] with some really pertinent remarks they’d make to one another and of course some of these girls could read Morse. I mean we didn’t used to swear in those days and all the rest of it. I thought oh God here we go. But anyway, we went on and this girl was progressively looking very ill. Innocent this and she had and she threw up in this bag as well right behind me. So I said and she tapped me on the shoulder. I said, ‘Oh Christ.’ So I thought I’ll take it and then she went back and I’m standing there. I said, ‘What do I do with this?’ You know the old sliding window on the Lanc? I got that [pause] and it came back like a bloody rocket and my skipper who just had a wonderful moustache and it hit him sideways on and it was all hanging there you know. All those tomato skins and peas and all the rest of it and he went quiet for a little while you know. And I couldn’t stop laughing. I couldn’t stop laughing. ‘You bastard,’ he said. Nothing about this poor little girl on the floor passed out. Yeah. And then, and that was that you know. I said, ‘Unclean.’ I said, ‘You go and get a wash or something.’ Oh dear. It was so funny. Yeah.
CB: Amazing.
EK: It was something I didn’t suffer with but the bomb aimer funnily enough the bomb aimer was put off a pilot’s course, Tom Burns, he was continually air sick. Every time we went up. He’d go to the boundary fence and away. Away he goes. Amazing isn’t it?
CB: How extraordinary.
EK: He persevered. He went on and on you know. Yeah.
CB: It didn’t affect him when he was doing the bomb aiming.
EK: No.
CB: Because he was concentrating.
EK: Oh yeah. Well, I hope to think he was. I said, ‘Tom, why don’t you sort this throwing up?’ ‘It’s a piece of cake.’ He said, ‘You just look up,’ and he said, ‘That’s high level,’ he said, ‘And that’s low level.’ [laughs] I think it’s true you know. [unclear] yeah.
CB: What height would you be flying for on the Cook’s Tours? On Cook’s Tours.
EK: Oh, pretty low. Pretty low. Five or six thousand. That’s right. Something.
CB: Oh, as high as that. I say as high as that.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Because I was thinking of you being —
EK: Yeah. Yeah. They could see all the devastation.
CB: That was the idea.
EK: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
CB: So what was the mix of Air Force people and others on the Cook’s Tours?
EK: Oh, all erks, you know.
CB: All erks.
EK: All LACs and, yeah.
CB: So —
EK: All just ordinary people.
CB: Did all your ground crew go on a Cook’s Tour?
EK: Yeah. Oh yeah. We took quite a lot. Yeah. Yes. I always remember that schloss.
CB: Yes.
EK: Yeah. Yes. It’s funny we’ve got this building here. Along my corridor is an ex-RAF guy and his granddaughter believe it or not she comes to see him quite a bit. Air commodore. What about that?
CB: Really?
EK: Yeah. In fact, Ken down on the gate where you came in and he said, ‘You’re not to let anybody in here. It’s for the security.’ This is to an air commodore. And my wife comes around you know and she said, ‘I live here.’ [laughs] And that’s it. Fortunately, Ken came in and she opened the door, you know and she said, ‘My grandfather said I’m not to let anybody in.’ That’s right. ‘Oh, very well.’ And she slipped her jacket on as she went out. The old big ring. She’s in the headquarters here. She’s head of, she’s a barrister.
CB: Oh.
EK: But she’s head of security and a lovely girl.
CB: And what did he do?
EK: Pardon?
CB: What did her grandfather do?
EK: He was, he was some clerical function, I think. He was, yeah.
CB: In the war?
EK: Yeah. Oh yeah. He’s an ex-brat. He was a Halton boy.
CB: Oh right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So we need to talk to him.
EK: Very good. Very good training that, wasn’t it? Very good training. Yeah. Yeah. So I met her two or three times now and I’ve been doing the mornings up down the British Legion. I said, ‘I bet you never kissed an air commodore.’ [laughs] ‘Or a station warrant officer.’ [laughs]
CB: Not with their uniforms on.
EK: Yeah. That’s a lovely rank isn’t it? Air commodore. Her husband has just retired. He was a captain in the Army and so don’t quite [coughs] In fact, my nephew worked for her.
CB: Oh.
EK: He’s a lawyer and he joined the RAF. Got so fed up with Civvy Street, you know. The mundane —
CB: Yeah.
EK: Life of a lawyer, you know. And he loved it and I met her and I was told, ‘Oh,’ she said, ‘I know him well. He’s a very good athlete. I said, ‘He is. Yes.’ And of course, he skis for the RAF and this, that and the other and of course Tracey said, ‘I’ll tell him I met you.’ To me you know. So he went in his office and he said, ‘Who’s that.’ And it says, ‘Air commodore.’ ‘Jeez. What have I done?’ [laughs] He said he nearly dropped the phone. And it was her just saying that she’d met the day previously. He came on the phone, ‘You bastard,’ [laughs] he said. He said, ‘I thought I was in for the bloody high jump,’ he said. You know. A flight lieutenant against an air commodore. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Good laugh.
EK: Yeah. A nice rank. I mean these officers of air rank they tell me that when they retire they retire on full pay.
CB: No. They don’t.
EK: No.
CB: No.
EK: They don’t. Ah well, you’re probably right there.
CB: They get their RAF pension.
EK: What?
CB: Commission pension assuming they’re on a PC. Then they get forty eight points. Forty eight point five percent of the salary they were on when they retire and a lump sum of three times their pension tax free. It’s not bad is it?
EK: How do you know all this? Do you know someone?
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah
CB: My job.
EK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: What celebrations did you have with the end of the war?
EK: Well, as I said I went to, I had a couple of days in London drinking too much. We then came back to Waterbeach. Yeah. Yeah. Long while ago now, isn’t it?
CB: Yeah. Then you, then you got on to the Exodus thing.
EK: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: How many people could you put in the plane at the same time?
EK: About [pause] about fourteen.
CB: You know that —
EK: All they had was a number on the floor and a bit of a rug to sit on or a blanket.
CB: Yeah.
EK: I remember that. That was a nasty one as well. That, that was on Exodus. That was at Brussels. We were just lining up to go forward. The one in front of me went, the next one went, then the next one. He went down the runway as we were and he went up. He went straight in. Bang. And the whole lot they were blown apart.
CB: Right.
EK: I don’t know what it was. I reckon that someone had moved about in the aircraft or got CnG wrong and were fat assing around. I don’t know.
CB: It’s interesting you say that because I had another person tell me —
EK: Pardon?
CB: I had another person tell me about that.
EK: Did you?
CB: And the theory was that the people moved to the back and that leads to the question as you were in there on the task.
EK: Yeah.
CB: What briefing did you give to the people who came into the aircraft? Were they told they must stay where their number was?
EK: Yeah. I think they —
CB: Or were they allowed to move about?
EK: Oh yeah. We were alright once we were airborne. Up and away, you know and everything was there but —
CB: No.
EK: On take-off, you know.
CB: Yeah. That’s what I mean.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So you’re fully laden and somebody moves back. They wouldn’t understand the CnGs. C of G shift.
EK: Yeah. I wonder if they’re going to get this Lanc repaired. This one that’s in dire straits.
CB: I’m sure they will.
EK: Eh?
CB: I’m sure they will.
EK: I hope so.
CB: Yeah. But yeah. To Coningsby. The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.
EK: That’s right. That’s right.
CB: So after you’ve done those things then the squadron, what happened after that?
EK: Well, they just all went and I then, as I said I then went out to the Middle East to, to Egypt and as a spare bod more or less you know flying there, flying there. And then —
CB: What were you flying in then?
EK: Well, we had —
CB: Still in Lancasters?
EK: Yeah. Lancasters still there, I think.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. But then you know everything just went down the pan. And as I was very good at cricket they had me playing cricket most of the while.
CB: Brilliant.
EK: Yeah. That was them and us again. There was nine officers, myself as a warrant officer and the opening bat for Cambridgeshire who was an OAC and better than anybody. Amazing it was. And I did, there was a Lanc there because I had the misfortune of flying with the, he was an air commodore. He was the AOC. Grey his name was and he used to come and watch us play occasionally and if I scored a run he wouldn’t come up at all but any officers, ‘Well down old boy.’ You know. I thought. Put me off the RAF. Yeah. I did sign on for three years.
CB: Yeah.
EK: But I got so, waited around for this to go through. I had a row with the wing commander flying and, ‘Don’t be impertinent, Key. Get out of my office.’ I said, ‘Yes. It’s the last time you’ll see me, you know.’ And I just came out then. But I would have stayed on as long as —
CB: What was the bone of contention then?
EK: Pardon?
CB: What was the bone of contention that caused the argument?
EK: I don’t know.
CB: Oh.
EK: They just seemed to put me in a corner and didn’t bring me out and dust me down with a commission you know.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And I ticked all the right boxes I think, you know. But today it’s so funny because you go to Northolt and you get the officers and the men you know sort of like talking to one another. Yeah. That’s the bits I find very good. Yeah.
CB: So you got to the end of your service —
EK: Yeah.
CB: And this is still 1945, is it?
EK: Yeah. I think so.
CB: And you go into ’46. You’re still in the RAF.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Because you then went to Nairobi. Why did you go there?
EK: Well, primarily to play cricket mercifully and a little bit of flying I used to do. I waited around to get this commission.
CB: Which never came.
EK: No.
CB: So —
EK: Were you commissioned, were you?
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So the question really is why you were flying all these other aeroplanes because you were in the Liberator, Dakota.
EK: Oh that. Yeah. That was.
CB: Baltimore.
EK: They were mates of mine they were.
CB: Oh.
EK: Yes. We had a wheel around.
CB: So you weren’t there in your professional capacity.
EK: No. No. But a lovely posting. Yeah.
CB: And then Mogadishu.
EK: Yeah.
CB: So, in theory what were you supposed to be doing?
EK: Well, they put me in to MT at one time. Doing a bit of you know. But there were so many others sort of floating around. Redundant aircrew.
CB: Yeah.
EK: You know. So that was that. So I ended up —
CB: Because if you flew in a Lancaster then you flew as an engineer.
EK: Yeah.
CB: But if you flew in anything else.
EK: Yeah, No. I wasn’t.
CB: No.
EK: So this went right on. Then you went to Upwood to 148 Squadron.
CB: Yeah.
EK: So what was that then?
CB: That was when I was at college.
EK: Right.
CB: That would be —
EK: So you’d come out of the RAF.
CB: Yeah.
EK: In the end of ’46 was it?
CB: Yeah.
EK: Middle of ’46?
CB: Yeah.
EK: And that was it.
CB: What made you decide to go to college?
EK: Well, because I more or less straight from, straight from flying and I didn’t know anything about the nuts and bolts of the aeroplane you see so I thought I had to go and take a course.
CB: And what was the course you did?
EK: Eh?
CB: What was the course that you did?
EK: Aeronautical engineering.
CB: Right.
EK: Per se.
CB: Right. At where?
EK: Yeah.
CB: Where was that?
EK: The College of Aeronautical Engineering at Chelsea.
CB: How did you support yourself financially during that time?
EK: Came with a grant.
CB: Right.
EK: Yeah. Quite generous. Quite good.
CB: Was it?
EK: All ex-RAF people there. Good fun. Yeah.
CB: And they’d all been engineers had they?
EK: No. Pilots and everything.
CB: Oh.
EK: Some of them got some very good jobs [unclear] there were some very bright boys, you know. Yeah.
CB: Meanwhile you joined the Reserve.
EK: Yeah.
CB: And what did that do for you?
EK: Well, as I said it gave me thirty pounds a year plus, plus a fortnight away. Yeah. Flying.
CB: And you, and what, you converted to a different aircraft. What was that?
EK: Yeah. Converted to Lincolns.
CB: Right.
EK: And I went on one or two. I went out to Gib on a Lincoln.
CB: Oh.
EK: Yeah. Flying out there. Yeah.
CB: So how would you describe the Lincoln in relation to the Lancaster?
EK: Well, I mean the Lancaster was the Rolls Royce of the heavy bombers. The Lincoln, now they prostituted the aircraft by doing all kinds of things but, you know, serviceable.
CB: It was bigger wasn’t it?
EK: Oh yeah.
CB: How else was it different?
EK: Yeah. Yes. It was bigger. It had all this armament on of course. 3.5s. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Was the fuselage bigger?
EK: Eh?
CB: Was the fuselage bigger?
EK: Yes. Slightly.
CB: So what did that do to your position as the flight engineer?
EK: No. The same position. Exactly the same. Stirling was totally different.
CB: Yeah.
EK: Yeah. How long were you in the RAF?
CB: Oh, less than two years.
EK: How much?
CB: Less than two years.
EK: Oh, it was. Oh. National Service.
CB: No. No. Volunteer.
EK: Pardon?
CB: Volunteer.
EK: Oh, and what happened?
CB: I’ll tell you later.
EK: Oh, you’ve got a story to tell have you? Yeah.
CB: So was there a second pilot’s seat in the Lincoln or did they still have only one pilot?
EK: Only one pilot. Yeah.
CB: Right.
EK: And in those days it was amazing really that year when they were all non-commissioned. Not many officers. They were all flight sergeants, sergeants you know. And then of course they had this terrible mix up when they regraded all the crew Master Aircrew, Aircrew 1, 2, 3 and 4. Yeah.
CB: The master aircrew being the warrant officers.
EK: Yeah. But you had to have all that goes with it. As a master aircrew you had to do thousands of bloody hours and flown on [unclear] you know. Yeah.
CB: Did they downgrade any of the aircrew then from warrant officer to flight sergeant?
EK: Oh yeah. They, they —
CB: When the war ended.
EK: Oh yeah. Fortunately, I was, I was going to go on commissioned flying so they didn’t touch me. But that was bad you see. You’d got blokes there with DFMs and warrant officers. All of a sudden they were knocked down to bloody sergeants. Dreadful. Why couldn’t they wait just a few months and let them all go home?
CB: Strange. When you, how long did your degree course last?
EK: Three and a half years.
CB: And then what?
EK: I went to British Airways.
CB: Did you know that before you finished the course or did you have to look after you’d finished it?
EK: No. I had an interview there and went straight in. They wanted me to bloody fly again.
CB: Oh, did they?
EK: Yeah. As an EO. But I did quite lot of flying funnily enough here and there giving extensive modifications to different aeroplanes and let us go and so it wasn’t bad.
CB: Then after a bit?
EK: After a bit I took the money and ran and retired.
CB: What age did you retire?
EK: Forty eight. Not bad is it?
CB: Then what did you do?
EK: Nothing [laughs] Oh yes. I did. I went, a friend of mine said, ‘Why don’t you come and join us in the Transport for London?’ So I went and I quite enjoyed counting motor cars and cars and all these different things that they used to do in the city. Yeah.
CB: What did that involve?
EK: Eh?
CB: What did that involve?
EK: Well, it involved up getting very early in the morning and then going out and counting cars on different routes and what was using who and what they could do. Yeah. It was alright [pause] Well, how are we doing? Are we nearly there?
CB: No, we’ve done well. Just nearly finished now.
EK: Oh good.
CB: So when did you finish altogether in work?
EK: What? Work?
CB: Yeah.
EK: Oh, about [pause] about forty years ago. Yeah.
CB: Well, Ted Key, thank you for a most interesting conversation.
EK: Well, I hope it has been. It seems a bit disjointed and some of it is a bit faded and I could think of a bit more.
CB: Ok.
EK: Yeah.
CB: You need a rest.
EK: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: The bomb.
EK: Yeah.
CB: They were disgorged as well.
EK: The photo flare?
CB: The photo flare.
EK: Yeah.
CB: And they dropped away and at a certain time they would pull them up and the whole line would light up and they would take pictures.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
EK: So that was on a programmed arrangement before the plane, before the sortie was it?
CB: Yeah. And sometimes they used to stick.
EK: In the ‘chute.
CB: And if you weren’t careful they went off in the aircraft and blow the bloody ass end off.
EK: Right.
CB: Yeah. In the ’chute. Yeah.
EK: They were quite —
CB: Who operated the camera? Was it done automatically on a timer or after the bombs went?
EK: That was done automatically but the wireless operator was in charge of the photo flares.
CB: Oh, was he? Right.
EK: Yeah.
CB: You mentioned earlier about trying to dislodge this large bomb. A two fifty pounder was it? So was there access to the bomb bay from the floor of the aircraft?
EK: That’s right.
CB: Every so often was it? Or —
EK: A little plate. Pick it up like a hook. You pulled it.
CB: Yeah.
EK: And it dropped it out.
CB: Right.
EK: If you were lucky.
CB: Right.
EK: This didn’t drop out.
CB: But there were several bits in the floor.
EK: Yeah.
CB: Hatches were there.
EK: Yeah.
CB: That you could use inter bombing.
EK: Where each bomb was.
CB: Yeah.
EK: I mean.
CB: Right.
EK: Dependant on what configuration you had.
CB: Yeah
EK: Yes.
CB: But having hang ups must have been quite a —
EK: Yeah. Yes.
CB: Worrisome.
EK: That’s it —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Edward George Key
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AKeyEG170904, PKeyEG1701
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:35:14 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Ted Key was a flight engineer. He was born to a large family in London which he remembers coming down from Norfolk to visit. His father was in the Navy as a chief petty officer and away a lot. Ted was in the air defence cadet corps before he joined the Royal Air Force. He had hoped to become a pilot but settle for flight engineer due to the waiting list being too long. He trained in South Wales during which his previous fascination with motorbikes helped. While training to be flight engineer, he had to know the aircraft inside out, its safety features and capabilities. He was on Stirlings at the heavy conversion unit for six weeks and then went to a Lancaster finishing school.
After training he was posted to RAF Waterbeach. One day prior to an operation Ted was cycling are the perimeter track when a huge explosion threw him from his bike. A Lancaster had exploded while being bombed up. Among those killed was someone from his village who he didn’t know was on the same station. On another occasion the hydraulics and pneumatics failed and they crashed into a potato field scattering potatoes inside the aircraft. On one operation the plane flying next to them exploded turning their own aircraft upside down and into a steep spin. They managed to right the plane and although they were so low there were tree branches stuck on the aerial they did survive. On one operation the navigator accidentally pulled out his oxygen pipe. He packed away his gear and announced he was going home. Ted realised what had happened and managed to reconnect him to the oxygen and he was fine with no memory of the incident.
He recalls that Stirlings were less powerful but more comfortable to work in. He also claims that Lancasters had much better integrity in terms of engineering. He sat alongside the pilot and his role during take off was to make sure the temperatures and compressors were up to standard. He remembers that he got attacked by German fighters three times and only hit once or twice. Ted discusses how frequent collisions with other planes are due to the large amount. The war ended before he finished his full tour, he took part in Operation Manna, immediately going to London to celebrate after. After this, Ted later when to the Middle East where he continued flying.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
William Evans
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Wales--Glamorgan
514 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing up
crash
flight engineer
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
military service conditions
navigator
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF St Athan
RAF Waterbeach
Scarecrow
Stirling
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/129/1329/PFlowersHJ1622.1.jpg
1d13b92e4dacc9c791a05fd3a10123db
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/129/1329/PFlowersHJ1623.1.jpg
08f1860202fcc77cc4b97896f1cebc28
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Flowers, James
H J Flowers
Horrace James Flowers
Harry James Flowers
Description
An account of the resource
15 items. The collection concerns the wartime experiences of Flight Sergeant Horace James Flowers, a rear gunner with 50 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe. The collection consists of one oral history interview, a propaganda leaflet and nine photographs. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by James Flowers and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Flowers, HJ
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster VN-F at RAF Skellingthorpe
Description
An account of the resource
In the foreground a large number of bombs on the ground with tails removed and placed alongside. Five armourers dressed in overalls and side caps surround the bombs; two crouching working on bombs and three carrying tails towards the bombs. Above the bombs is part of the starboard wing of a Lancaster and behind the armourers is the starboard tailplane. In the background another Lancaster with men on top of the wings, one above each of the inner engines. On the reverse 'Lanc VNF, James Flowers a/c Skellingthorpe'.
Additional information about this item has been kindly provided by the donor.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PFlowersHJ1622, PFlowersHJ1623
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Daily Sketch
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
bombing up
ground personnel
Lancaster
RAF Skellingthorpe
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1544/28346/EHoadNEGarnerKM701207-0003.2.jpg
f53b27f4353257c575c7dfcccbdaa4cb
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1544/28346/EHoadNEGarnerKM701207-0004.2.jpg
c5650d86794336b6029d1f5714860d1a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Scrimshaw, Christopher Charles
C C Scrimshaw
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Scrimshaw, CC
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. The collection concerns Pilot Officer Christopher Scrimshaw (1905 - 1944, 957856, 182431<a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/120871/">I</a>Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs and documents. He flew operations as an air gunner with 61 Squadron. <br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Kathleen Garner and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br /><br />More information on Charles Scrimshaw can be found via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/120871/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster Bombing Up
Description
An account of the resource
Nine ground crew and six aircrew under the nose of Lancaster 'N'. The ground crew are working on bombs on bomb trolleys. The aircrew are dressed in flying kit. On the reverse stamped 'Daily Sketch Copyright', 'Graphic Photo Union' and handwritten 'Specimen No. 4/M4245.L'
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Daily Sketch
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
EHoadNEGarnerKM701207-0003,
EHoadNEGarnerKM701207-0004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
aircrew
bomb trolley
bombing up
dispersal
ground crew
ground personnel
Lancaster
service vehicle
tractor
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/295/3615/AWallerT151027.2.mp3
fabda2f9ca0e4a33deecf28b4415ef22
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Waller, Tom
Tom Waller
T Waller
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Corporal Thomas Waller (- 2018, 1096366 Royal Air Force) a memoir and photographs. Tom Waller was a fitter/armourer with 138, 109 and 156 Squadrons and served at RAF Stradisall, RAF Wyton, RAF Warboys, and RAF Upward.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Thomas Waller and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-27
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Waller, T
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DE: So this is an interview with Thomas Waller. It’s at his house in Swanland. It’s the 27th of the 10th 2015. Approximately 10 past 10. My name is Dan Ellin and this is an interview for the International Bomber Command Digital Archive. So Mr Waller could you please tell me what you did before the war and before you joined the RAF?
TW: I left school when I was fourteen. Worked on the fish docks. I left there when we came to Swanland in 1936. I went to work at the Blackburn’s which is now British Aerospace at Brough. I couldn’t stand being penned in there so I came and worked in the local village grocery shop. Wednesday was our half day so when I was in town one Wednesday I went in to the recruiting office and joined the RAF. I came home. Mother said, ‘Why did you do that for? You’ll not pass your medical.’ So I said, ‘Ah. Let’s see.’ So I went for my medical and passed A1. And she said, ‘Well you couldn’t have done.’ But I never found out why. So I joined up. Went in for MT driver but I’d joined up just at Dunkirk and they’d lost a lot of armourers in Fairey Battles so I became an armourer. Hadn’t the vaguest idea what it was – came home on leave, home and my brother he was a flight engineer. Ground crew. I said, ‘What’s an armourer?’ He said, ‘Oh guns and bombs.’ ‘Oh I don’t want to do that. I’m not doing that.’ He said, ‘It’s good pay. Good promotion.’ I said, ‘Money’s not everything.’ Anyhow, I went. Got on the course. And the lad next to me said, ‘Well, I don’t want to do this.’ So we filed up and down. Up and down. The tutor came around and said, ‘You two can stop messing about. Get on with it because we know you can do it.’ So we did. So we passed out flying colours so went out there in the armoury after it had finished. An officer come along and says, ‘Those whose names I call out please step forward.’ My name was called out. Go for fitter armourer to Credenhill in Hereford. So my mate said, ‘We didn’t want to do that, did we?’ I said, ‘No. But we’ll have to go won’t we?’ So we went and we enjoyed it and we got through that course alright and then I was posted to Stradishall. 138 Squadron. SOE Squadron. I wasn’t there very long because Tempsford was its main base and they decided to put all the SOE section together. So they transferred me to Wyton. But instead of Stradishall sending me to Wyton they sent me to Upper Heyford. So, when I got there they said, ‘Where have you come from?’ I said, ‘Stradishall.’ ‘Well you’re not supposed to be here mate.’ I said, ‘Well I have a railway warrant for here.’ ‘Well, we’ll fetch you up a bed for the night and feed you and see.’ I was there for a week and then they said, ‘We’ve found out where you should have been. You should be at Wyton.’ So they said, ‘Get your kit ready and come down to the orderly room tomorrow morning. Half past eight. We’re flying you over in an Anson.’ Oh, I thought lovely. My first flight. Here I go. I got to the orderly room. ‘You’re going by train.’ It’s got a snag. They took me to the station. Stood there. Thought got to get rid of him and make sure he gets on the train. So when I got to Wyton they said, ‘Where have you been?’ I said, ‘I’ve been at Upper Heyford.’ ‘Well what did you go there for?’ I said, ‘Well that’s my railway warrant.’ You know. So he said, ‘Well have you come through King’s Cross?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said. ‘Have you been stopped by the police?’ I said, ‘No.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘We’ve got them at your house looking for you.’ So I said, ‘No wonder my mother was agitated.’ So I settled down there and then, you know [pause] I eventually got to Wyton and the lads said, ‘Oh you’re our new armourer are you?’ So, I said, ‘Yes sir.’ They said, ‘Right.’ So we got settled in. Got working on the aircraft and then came home on leave. Got back off leave. Just got to the guard room and there was a terrific explosion. All the people came out the guardroom, the guard chaps. There’d been an explosion there, hadn’t there. Now had I been, not been on leave I wouldn’t be here now. So I’m one of the lucky ones and the billets at night with all the empty beds. It was really horrible to see it, you know. So we plodded on. Carried on. And then I was transferred from Wyton to [pause] from Stradishall. I went to Wyton and from Wyton I went to Warboys. To 156 Squadron. Start of Pathfinder force. And then they transferred over to Upwood and I went over to Upwood. And then I was there till 1946 and I was sent to a satellite drome near Stratford on Avon. With a dummy four pounder in the bomb dump, fifty rifles in the armoury. I was a corporal and there was me and another lad there with nothing to do. So when demob come I was glad to get out. But if I’d been on a proper station I would have stopped in because I really enjoyed the life. So I came home. Went back to my job in the village. And then at that time I was engaged to a WAAF in London so I got a job with Barclays Baking Machines. Went down to their factory in London and trained to be a mechanic. Service mechanic for the area. So we came back home again. But my lady friend said, ‘I’m not going to Swanland to live.’ So that brought that up. So I did it but I had to give it up because I didn’t have the money to buy a car or a motorbike and doing all the villages. And I walked from Holme on Spalding Moor to Easingwould carrying a wooden box with all my kit in. And I were going, and I went to one place, Newbold. And you’re allowed an hour and a half to service a machine and when I got there I had a new blade to put on. There were only a bus in the morning and one at night [laughs] so I panicked. I got it on. So I gave the manager my address. I said, ‘If anything happens send me a telegram and,’ I said, ‘I’ll come over,’ you know. Anyhow, everything was alright, thank goodness. So, but it was having walking from one village to another and buses it was that awkward so I gave it up. And I came back to the local shop again. Met a local girl and got married. And then I went to work for a local multiple store. Cousins. Down in Ferriby. And I used to go into the shop on the corner, a big shop on the corner where, down where we lived on a Sunday morning to do the bale machine for him and sort his yard out for him. So one day he said, ‘Would you like to come and work for me? I’ll give you a pound more than what you’d do down there.’ A pound in them days was a lot of money. And I had four children then. So I said, ‘Oh yes. Yeah.’ So I came and I was there for nineteen years. And then he brought his nephew into the business and of course he fell out with everybody. Fell out with me. It was horrible to work in. I was fifty five then and I thought where I go from here. Anyhow, Everthorpe Prison was advertising for a canteen manager’s assistant storeman. So I applied for the job. Went for the interview and then I got a letter saying no. The other man was there. He’d been a manager but I’d never been a manager. Anyhow, on the Monday they rang me up. Was I still interested in the job? I said why. Well the manager walked into the canteen on the Friday dinnertime and walked out. He said, ‘I’m not doing this.’ So he said, ‘The job is yours if you want.’ So I did nine and a half years there and took early retirement. So then my hobby was decorating. So I had a little business decorating.
DE: Right. I see. So you, going back to when you were working in, in the grocer’s shop and you had your early day off on Wednesday afternoon.
TW: Yeah.
DE: Why did you decide to join the RAF?
TW: I just did it on impulse. No real reason. I just, I just thought I’d go, you know. My brother was in the RAF so maybe that was one of the things as well, like, you know.
DE: Did you consider any of the other services?
TW: No. Never. If anything it was always going to be the RAF. So I got what I wanted but I didn’t get the job wanted.
DE: No. Because you wanted to drive.
TW: I wanted to drive. Yeah.
DE: Why. Why did you want to drive?
TW: I was always interested in driving and I learned to drive when I was at the village shop so. But I never passed a driving test. Because when the war came in 1939 just, just as I was taking mine and I’d only done driving down country roads and I did my test in the town. And I’d never been in front of a policeman before. And in Hull, there was a street in Hull where it was just a snake of people because when we had the ferry you’d see people going down , down the outside to the ferry. The policeman was waving me on you see and saying, ‘You’ve got to go hadn’t you?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, They’ve got to move for you,’ you know. He said, ‘Well, your driving’s alright but you need more experience in the town.’ Well the war came so I kept my licence going and it became a full licence after the war so –
DE: I see.
TW: So me being a clever man, I taught my eldest son to drive. So I said to him, ‘Well we’ll finish you off at a driving school because I’ve never passed a driving test.’ So I got these people to come. So I said, ‘No. I’ve never passed a driving test. But,’ I said, ‘I’ve done my best so will you take him and finish him off.’ So they went and they came back and they both got out the car and folded their arms. He said, ‘You taught him to drive.’ I thought – here it comes. He says, ‘We can’t fault him anywhere. We don’t know how he didn’t pass the test. He said, ‘We’re putting him for his test straight away because he’s brilliant.’
DE: Wonderful.
TW: I always say to him now, ‘Now you didn’t listen to what I said to you? Did you?’ He borrowed my car once. He said he wanted to follow the RAC rally. I said yes. It was in November and it was snowy and icy. I said, ‘Go to Harrogate and Howard House but whatever you do do no go on the moors.’ ‘Ok dad.’ 3 o’clock in the morning a neighbour came down, ‘They’ve had an accident.’ ‘I’ll kill him,’ I said, ‘I’ll kill him when he gets home.’ Looked out the window when I heard this wagon outside a few hours later. Looked out. I said, ‘Look at my car. I’ll kill him. I’ll kill him.’ ‘Calm down. Calm down. Calm down.’ I said, ‘What did I tell you?’ ‘Well.’ ‘Yeah,’ I said, ‘But when you was driving the car you were in charge of the car. You should have done what I told you.’ So every time we go up on to the moors there’s an archway. ‘That’s where I had my crash dad.’ I said, ‘Don’t keep reminding me.’
DE: Oh dear. So the RAF didn’t want you to be a driver. They sent you on the armourer’s course.
TW: Sent me on the armoury course because at that time – Dunkirk and we’d lost a lot of armourers on Fairey Battles apparently. So, and they were short of armourers so that was it.
DE: So what did the course entail?
TW: Well, it entailed making little parts for guns and that and then you sort of went on to turrets and how to look after guns and how to sort the turrets out and that, then finished that armourers course, called out outside. Then this officer calls through, ‘These names please come forward.’ So we stepped forward. We all went to be fitter armourers. I went to be fitter armourer. Should have been general if I wanted to go on bombs but I was just fitter armourer but I ended up doing everything. You know. Bombing up and everything. So [pause]
DE: And what was it like on an, on an operational station?
TW: Oh it was fantastic. The spirit amongst the lads and that. Yeah. They were brilliant. And the aircrew were brilliant as well. Especially if they’d been in a hangar for a service. You saw the pilot, ‘Are you going up for a flight? Can I come with you?’ ‘Yeah.’ So, the first time I went up it was in a Wellington. Well that was by mistake because it had been in the hangar for a service and they took it out on to the airfield and revved the engines up and then they usually took the crew down to the dispersal points. So I thought well I can go down. Get a lift back. So I went and I thought he’s revving his engines up. Well it was running up. ‘I haven’t got a parachute.’ ‘Don’t worry. None of us,’ there were two other bods there, ‘None of us have parachutes. Don’t worry.’ So any chance after that I got. So the Lancaster was next. So I said to the pilot, ‘Are you going up?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So I went with him. So I was felt real happy and light headed. I thought oh this is lovely you know. I got a tug on my leg and this chap said, ‘How long have you been up there mate?’ I said to ten. ‘My God,’ he said, ‘Plug this into the intercom. Plug this in to the oxygen because if we come down quickly it’ll blow your ears out.’ Got on to the pilot, this, told him I was up there. So, anyway and then we got out over The Wash. I thought – panic. Only one engine. I thought, what’s happening? What’s happening? So when we got back I said, I said to the pilot, ‘How did you manage to fly on one engine?’ ‘Oh don’t worry.’ He said, ‘That Lancaster can fly on one engine.’ He said, ‘Guy Gibson’s done it.’ I thought, I said, ‘Thank God for that.’ I said. But he said, ‘I’d forgotten you was up there mate. It’s a good job the chappie saw. Saw your legs hanging down. Because,’ he said, ‘It put me in a spin because I could have damaged your ears if I’d come down too quick.’
DE: Where were you? In the mid-upper turret?
TW: In the mid-upper turret. Yeah. Lovely. Lovely sight from out there. And then when D-day started we was called out because previous to D-day – well about six months before we took all the front turrets out of the Lancasters because it gave them twenty five miles an hour more speed. So when D- day started we was all called out of the aerodrome to put these turrets back in again. Drizzling with rain. Just getting, it was just getting light. So I was out of the nose of the Lancaster guiding this turret in and the sky turned black. And all these aircraft come over with the white markings on and I shouted, ‘D-day’s started, D-day’s started.’ The most fantastic sight. So, we got, we got all the turrets put back in again. We had to – the time I was in the pilot’s cockpit. No scaffolding. Health and safety today would go up the wall because the only scaffolding they had was for the engine people. So you had to climb out over the and crawl along a little but to the turret to guide it in and check if you wanted. If anything had happened inside. Check nothing loose. It was moving slow. Check that there were no oil leaks. So you had to take the cover off and check the oil pipes and that and put it back on. They’d grab you by your collar and turn you around and you’d go back in head first.
DE: That sounds like a really interesting job that.
TW: It was. It was really good. I really enjoyed it. As I say had I been on a proper ‘drome when the war finished I would have stopped in. I did really enjoy it.
DE: What other sort of things did they have you doing then?
TW: Being a gunner armourer I should never have been on bombs. But I was put on to a bombing up crew. I mean I didn’t know anything about the fuses or anything but I was putting fuses in and then we got – when we got Mosquitoes they couldn’t get four target indicator bombs on. So I had to shorten the tails till we could get four target indicator bombs on. So we got that sorted out.
DE: What were target indicator bombs like then?
TW: They were, well I think they were about two hundred and fifty pounds and that and they had about a hundred candles in. So when it dropped all the candles came out and should have burned but they didn’t. But we’d be, we got pressed for – Professor Cox came down and we helped him to perfect this so that when they dropped if they snapped everything burned. So we used to go to Thetford Forest. Got it on to a Lancaster. Go to Thetford Forest. Wait for it to be dropped. Go and see. Our fourth attempt was a successful attempt so we achieved something.
DE: So did you have four different prototypes then? Is that how it, how it worked?
TW: Yeah. You did one and put it to one side. Then marked it number one. Then number two, number three, number four. And of course when number four dropped it cracked but with having the metal rods down the cap it didn’t – it didn’t snap the rods. So it all burned when it fell.
DE: I see.
TW: Yeah. So, so we was coming back from Thetford when the war finished, one time, we said, ‘What’s everybody cheering for?’ You know. We stopped and asked somebody. ‘Well the war’s over.’ So that was nice surprise for us coming back again.
DE: So what were the conditions like on the stations that you were working on?
TW: The worst one was Stradishall because it wasn’t a proper ablutions. It was more open than that. Very basic. But the rest of them were fantastic. Beautiful toilets and showers and everything. And the barracks were good as well. There was, you used to get each station I’d been on after that there were the parade ground and then there was four blocks at each corner of the parade ground. Four blocks of houses. For people, for the crews. The airmen to be in. So then you went off to your, on to the ‘drome and then you went on to your armoury and did your business.
DE: Right. So could you describe a typical working day then for me?
TW: We’d have breakfast and then start about 8 o’clock and you’d sort of check your turrets over and then go and have your dinner and then come back. And if there ops on you would, I would be bombing up which I shouldn’t have been and then you stood there for them to go off and if you was conscientious you were there for when they came back again. But that was the worst part. Waiting for them to come back again. ‘Cause you would think if yours was the last one in and it hadn’t arrived. You’d say, well there was another one to come in yet? Another one to come in yet? And he’d come limping in. Probably be shot up a bit and a bit of damage on the wings and that. Our aircrew were good. They never made any bones or anything if they were hurt or anything. Because one day we had the Americans come in. The fighters shot the ‘drome up right down the runway. Then the B17 came in. Got out, ‘Where’s the blood wagon? Where’s the blood wagon?’ Kissing the ground. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. My brother, my brother was all for, all for the Americans. I said, ‘Well, you can have them. You can go over there and live with them.’ I said, ‘From what I’ve seen of them I think they’re pathetic.’ Then we used to go to the pictures in Huntingdon. We was coming out one day and Clark Gable, the film star, was walking in. Oh there’s Clark Gable there. With it being Americans there you see. Huntingdon was the nearest with a cinema so they used to come there.
DE: So what other things did you do when you had an evening off then?
TW: Well, when I had an evening off we, sometimes my mate and I would go right around the villages and then we got to this little village of Benwick. So we stopped and went in to the pub and got a drink and went outside at the back because they had a lovely bowling green at the back. And we sat and there was a couple sat next to us. So they asked, ‘Are you from the local ‘drome?’ So I said, ‘Yes.’ They said, ‘Would you like a game of bowls?’ So I said, ‘Oh I’ve never played bowls.’ My mate said, ‘Oh come.’ We won them [laughs] and so they said, ‘Are you sure you’ve never played before?’ So I said, ‘No.’ I said. ‘Well,’ he said, ‘You’ve managed to get the right bias on the bowls because you managed to get them through, you know.’ So, anyhow they invited us over to, for supper. And we used to go over regular and they had two boys and a girl. Now, the girl she’s what, she’ll be in her seventies now. We’re still in contact with one another. I made her a doll’s bed. She had two boys. Her boys had boys but she’s still got the bed. She said, ‘I might get a great granddaughter one day so I’ll pass it on to her.’ So we were regularly in contact with her because the family were fantastic to go to. You come home on leave, ‘Are you going on leave?’ He said. ‘I’ll come around night before and we’ll give you some eggs.’ Come home with some eggs. And sometimes you’d come home with a chicken. My mother didn’t know she were born. When I was going with a WAAF in the telephone exchange and they used to cook for themselves so if they got kidneys and I was coming home on leave they‘d give me the kidneys because they never ate them.
DE: Right.
TW: So mother would have my kidneys which was a luxury in them days. Couldn’t get them from the butcher and that. So she did well did my mother with eggs and that. But my brother was a rogue. I came, on the first leave I came home on leave he was home on leave. So, I gave my mother my ration card and the money. She said, ‘What’s this?’ I said, ‘Well, my ration money.’ So she said, ‘Well Maurice never give me it.’ Give it me back. And do you know what he said? ‘It’s something that’s just started.’
DE: Oh. I see.
TW: I said, ‘No. It’s been going on since you’ve been in the forces so don’t talk daft.’ But her blue eyed boy could do no wrong could my eldest brother.
DE: And what was – what was he? Did you say he was –?
TW: He was an engineer but he had a painting and decorating business before the war.
DE: Right.
TW: But he was stupid. Get a lad to. Employed a lad to work when he should be working himself. And of course when the war started his business flopped because he had a load of credit. So after the war my mother said, ‘If anybody asks where Maurice is you don’t know.’ He went into partnership with a chap and I used to work with a chap at the bottom of the road here and his partner used to come to me for a box of matches and look at me because before the war I didn’t wear glasses. After the war I were wearing glasses. He’d look at me and he’d go outside and he’d be pondering. And he came every week. I thought well I know who you are mate but I’m not going to make myself known to you [laughs] Oh dear. So those were the days.
DE: You, you mentioned a bit earlier on about an, about an explosion.
TW: Yeah. That must, must have been when they were bombing up. Because I was coming back off leave so it had to be an evening one. And I just got through the gate and there was this terrific explosion. And the chap said, ‘By. Something’s gone up there.’ You know. So the next day we had to go out on to the drome. Looking in the crater. See if we could find anything. And three Lancasters looked like they’d been made of corrugated iron. All, every bit of them but I don’t know, as far as I can remember I don’t think the tyres had gone down. In the crater you couldn’t find a thing. And the only funeral from there was a WAAF driver. And she was stood at one of the Lancasters with a crew wagon and she was the only one that was killed. She was buried in Bransby churchyard.
DE: I see. And what had happened? Did you ever find out?
TW: All I can think of – it was a barometric fuse. ‘Cause they were very delicate and if they got knocked they could have gone off. And we had a lad from London and I don’t know how he became an armourer because he was thick. And he wasn’t in the billet at night so two of us said, ‘I wonder if it’s him.’ Tried to tighten it up and hit it with a hammer. ‘Cause if he had have done it would have gone off, you know. Because it was the only explanation we could think of ‘cause it couldn’t have gone up otherwise. But never did find out really. There was nothing to piece together to sort things out.
DE: Right. How did that make you feel when you were loading up the bombs?
TW: It didn’t bother me. You don’t. You don’t feel fear. I mean when you’re sat on top of the Lancaster you don’t think about falling off. In them days you didn’t have any fear in you. You was, you was bravado, you know. Fearless. No. It was a good job. I enjoyed it.
DE: How many people worked in the team that were bombing up these aircraft?
TW: It would be about four. It would be one upstairs winding the winch. Two or three downstairs. Especially if it’s putting the four thousand pounder on. To guide it so that it didn’t swing. Otherwise three could have done it because one upstairs doing the and the other two just guiding the bomb up till it got in to, as far as it could get. Until it go into its – I forget what they call it now. It’s anchorage.
DE: Right.
TW: Yeah. But Mosquitoes were the worst ones to do. Mosquitoes were the worst ones to do because you had to get in the back and wind the winch. Nearly crippled you.
DE: This was, this was by hand.
TW: All by hand. Yeah.
DE: Right.
TW: Everything was done by hand. Even the winches in the, winching them up in to the Lancasters. All hand winches. We weren’t modernised technically in them days.
DE: So it was quite hard physical work as well.
TW: It was. Yeah. But it didn’t bother you. You just took it as part of your – what you had to do and you just, you didn’t think about it. It was a job to do and you did it and enjoyed it. I enjoyed it anyhow so.
DE: Did you have any particular friends on any of the stations?
TW: One friend. But we lost contact after the war but we used to go out when we had time off on night time. We used to go out and cycle around the villages and as I say, going to Benwick. This couple. But that was the only one I had. But, I mean, in the group, the armourers, we were all friends and that. But you see you all go your separate ways and your lives change when you go into Civvy Street.
DE: Sure. Yeah.
TW: So you’ve got to adapt.
DE: What about the WAAF? Did you have anything to do with, with them?
TW: Well we’re still, we got engaged. We were still engaged when the war finished. And she came down for a holiday and she said [pause] I’d arranged for take her to see Richard Tauber in Old Chelsea. At the theatre. So we went there and when we came back there used to be an old man sat outside the Station Hotel. And I used to always give him a coin when I passed through. He was a really nice fella. And when, getting off the bus I wanted a halfpenny change but she wouldn’t get off the bus until the conductor come downstairs and give me a halfpenny. Then when we got home she said, ‘What did you waste money for? Going to the theatre.’ I said, ‘Hang on a minute,’ I said, ‘I didn’t waste money.’ I said, ‘I treated you.’ I said, ‘I haven’t seen you for months,’ you know. I said, ‘Well what about you? I didn’t complain about you when you said you’d been here, there and everywhere.’ I said, ‘I’ve sat at home knitting a rug. I haven’t been wasting my time. But you’ve been gallivanting. You blamed me because you lost a pen because you had to write to me.’ I said, I’ve stood in – the girl’s on the phone, ‘Ringing you and you weren’t there.’ ‘I was.’ I said, ‘No you weren’t,’ I said. On Edmonton Green apparently there were four telephones and the girls on the exchange used to know me. ‘I’m sorry Mr Waller but there’s nobody there. We’re trying them all.’
DE: Oh dear.
TW: So I said I’m wasting my time. So it fell through. So we had a friend who’d been engaged and she’d packed in so she had, when you got engaged you could get dockets and units if you were going to get married. So we got our dockets and units so I managed to get a bedroom suite and two fireside chairs. I bought them. So it’s just before I went down to Edmonton. So I went down to Edmonton. She stood outside the gates of the factory, followed me home to my lodgings and then knocked on my door. And then they said, ‘There’s a lady at the door for you.’ I said, ‘There can’t be.’ She said, ‘Well she’s asking for you.’ ‘What the devil do you want?’ ‘I wondered if you’d like to take me to the pictures tonight.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘Clear off.’ I said, ‘I’m not taking you anywhere.’ She sent a great big Pickford’s van down to my, our house to pick some stuff up. I mean the fool. She must have been a fool because I mean, she didn’t know what she was going to send for. And my mother didn’t know anything about it. When this chap got to the front door. ‘What do you mean you –?’ He said, ‘You mean to tell me I’ve come all this way for nothing.’ ‘Well,’ she said, ‘I don’t know what you’re supposed to be collecting like.’ Anyhow, I wrote to her and said, “Why did you send a Pickford’s van down to our house for?” I said, “You didn’t want a Pickford van. A little pickup would have been done.” So she wrote back, “What do you mean?” I said, “Well, don’t forget I paid for the bedroom suite. I paid for two fireside chairs. I paid for the tea set we had.” I said the rest of the stuff will just go in a cardboard box.” I said, ‘Just send for a little pickup.’ But you see her father was a police inspector and she thought it might frighten me a bit but it didn’t. So the Pickford van come. He said, ‘This is all I’ve got to pick up is it?’ She said, ‘Yeah.’ It was the same man that came before.
DE: Right.
TW: So he said my God. I thought I was coming to fetch a great big mansion box but a little portmanteau thing, you know. But she was [pause] I don’t think I’d have ever married her if it had gone on. She was a bit a one for herself. You know. Yeah.
DE: Sounds like it.
TW: And I was always wrong. And there was me. I had sore fingers from knitting. ‘Cause you couldn’t get canvas in them days so you used to wrap wool around a wooden ruler. Cut it. And then you got the right set. So you knit, put it in, knit a stitch and turn it around. Made some lovely rugs. I was very good at knitting. I knitted my first son’s christening shawl when he was born. Yeah. My sister was useless but I’ve got, I’ve got my mother’s genes because she was court dressmaker was my mother. But she would never help me because when I was growing up I wanted to be a dress designer. Oh no. No. No. No. I’ve dressed dolls as brides and they’re all over the world. I can make them ever week. People wanting them but my mother wouldn’t help me one little bit.
DE: Oh.
TW: And my sister couldn’t even, couldn’t even knit. It took her all her time to sew a button on. I could do the lot. In fact up until my children starting school I made all their clothes for them.
DE: Ok.
TW: Yeah. I was an industrious little lad. Used to have a nice decorating business. Go out at night decorating. And then when I retired I was with the prison service. They said, ‘Are you going down to London for a retirement course? They’ll explain all the things to do for getting a job and that.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘No. No. I’m not going.’ I said, ‘I know what I’m doing.’ ‘What do you mean?’ they said. ‘Well I’m going to do my decorating.’ ‘Oh, you’re going on this course.’ I said, ‘I’m not going on a course.’ I went on the course and I made twenty seven quid. I said, ‘What?’ Because I went to the cashiers. They said, ‘How did you get the tools?’ So I said, ‘I went on the bus.’ They said, ‘No. You went by taxi.’ ‘I didn’t,’ I said, ‘I went on the bus.’ ‘No. Taxi. You got a taxi back as well. When you go to London where do you get a taxi to?’ I said, ‘I didn’t. I walked.’ ‘No you didn’t.’ I said, ‘I walked.’ He said, ‘What hotel did you stay at?’ I said, ‘I didn’t stay at a hotel.’ I said, ‘My brother lived at Hatfield so,’ I said, ‘I commuted each day from there.’ ‘Oh no. You stayed at a hotel. Now that looks a good one. You stayed there’ And I thought, afterwards I thought well that’s all over the country happening. It’s an eye opener sometimes. And that was in the prison service. No. I don’t know.
DE: Strange.
[pause]
DE: I’m just having a look at my notes.
[pause]
DE: Was the, did the different stations feel particularly different? I mean you say you worked with an SOE squadron and you worked for Pathfinders.
TW: No. They’re all types sort of thing, you know. There was no sort of difference in it. The only difference was Wyton. The bomb dump was at the other side the main road.
DE: Right.
TW: But the rest of them were all on the ‘dromes.
DE: I see.
TW: No. But they were all the same, there was no difference in them. Just because they were different squadrons. There were no, the routine was more or less the same all the way through.
DE: Ok. And the target indicator bombs that you were experimenting with in Thetford. Were these the sky markers? Or the –
TW: The sky markers. Yeah.
DE: Yeah.
TW: Some some used to drop them in the cloud. A break in the clouds. And others used to drop down on the ground. And they were in different colours so there was a Master Bomber up above directing so if Jerry lit a decoy they’d change the colour. ‘Don’t bomb on red. Bomb on green.’ ‘Don’t bomb on green. Bomb on yellow.’ I wouldn’t like the Master Bombers job. To be up there all the time when the raid was on. Circling around.
DE: Yeah.
TW: No. I enjoyed it though.
[pause]
DE: And you say you, you chose to be demobbed because –
TW: I chose demob because I was on a satellite ‘drome. I had nothing to do and you just got bored. There was nothing you could do about it so you were glad to get out of it in the end. But that’s to say if I’d been on a proper ‘drome I would have stopped in.
DE: Right. I see.
TW: But I wasn’t so –
DE: What was the demob process like?
TW: Dead easy. Mind you I’ve always had a query with it. My demob. Because the medical officer examined me. Went and fetched another doctor. And I wondered why. So I’ve now developed an irregular heart beat so whether that was coming on then I don’t know but I’ve had this sepsis into regular rhythm.
DE: Right.
TW: When I was ninety two. Put me in the cubicle. ‘My God. We’re sorry. We shouldn’t have done that to you at your age.’ The cut off point’s ninety. I said, ‘Well it’s too late now isn’t it?’ He said, ‘Well you won’t get it done again. It’s back to normal. Its back to its regular beat again.’ Yeah. So they can’t do anything about it.
DE: Did you have much to do with the RAF medical services?
TW: No. Never.
DE: No.
TW: I’ve never bothered anybody. British Legion or anybody. I’ve bought my own wheelchair. Bought my own mobility scooter. I’ve a step son won’t part with a thing. He had a leg off. We’ve a wheelchair in there. We’ve a zimmer outside. We’ve two stools. I said, ‘You want to send those back.’ ‘Oh I might need them.’ I said, ‘You won’t need them.’ He won’t part with a thing.
DE: I see.
TW: They’re stood there. Brand new.
DE: Some people are like that though aren’t they?
TW: Yeah.
DE: Yeah. You were showing me before we started the interview this research that you’ve been doing.
TW: Yeah.
DE: About the Halifax bomber crash. Could you tell me a little about that?
TW: Well it happened. We lived in Swanland. We came to Swanland in 1936. My parents left in March 1944. So I came back and knew nothing about it and then and a guy in the village wrote a book and there was a bit about it in there. And we were out one day with the church on an outing and yon side of Gilberdyke there was this model of where Halifaxes had crashed and there was two sort of intertwined. So I said, ‘Something should have been done about those two chaps who were killed in our village. Anyhow, a week or two went by and nothing happened so I thought I’ll take it on myself you see. So I thought he’s buried in Bury so he’s got to be a local lad. Got on to the paper and that. No. Couldn’t find anything about him. There was nothing about him at the cemetery and nothing about him at the War Graves Commission. No address or anything. So I got on to the records office and they rang me up and said, ‘He comes from Nottingham.’ I said, ‘Well, its seventy years since it happened. Can you tell me where?’ ‘Oh no. He came from Nottingham.’ So I wrote to tourist the board in Nottingham and they gave me the address of the radio station and the paper. The local paper were like the Daily Mail in Hull. They were useless. Two little pieces at the bottom. One, the modern Nottingham paper was in the Bygones letters in back of the paper. Two lines at the bottom. And the radio station at Nottingham were brilliant. They did a magnificent programme. But they rang me up to say would I go on the station but I was away on holiday and my son took the call. They said, ‘Well, tell your dad we’ll read out his letter out he sent us. We’d have liked to have him on it but we can’t change a programme now.’ So they wrote to me to tell me what they’d done and then [pause] I’ve got a blockage [pause] So, I got on to the tourist board and they said he’d come from Nottingham. So Radio Nottingham put a programme out and I heard nothing. Now, the other pilot, he came from Tottenham and he’s buried and I knew he was buried near his parents. Now, the War Graves just had the address of the church where he was buried so London University took it over from me but they couldn’t trace any relatives at all then. And then about four months after I started investigating I got a telephone call one night. ‘When are you having the service? I said, ‘What service?’ ‘For the airmen you found.’ I said, ‘I’m not because I haven’t found anybody.’ ‘He said, ‘I’m a nephew.’ He said, ‘We’ve just found out from Australia.’ I said, ‘Australia?’ He said, ‘Yeah. Eastern Australia.’ So how it got over there. Whether he’d been on the internet and that I don’t know. So he said can you arrange it. So I arranged a new service and about fifteen came down. They said, ‘Oh we owe everything to you. We thought he’d been killed over Germany.’ And they said, ‘But we’re grateful to you for what you’ve done. We’ll keep in contact.’ So Christmas come. I got a Christmas card. I’ve written letters. I’ve never heard a thing from them. Now, on the Monday night after it was on television a cousin who knew him – she rang me up. She said, ‘Oh I wish I’d known. I would have been there. Can I come over and see you?’ So she came over and we took her over to show where it crashed and the plaque in the church. And we took her to the cemetery to his grave. And then she said, ‘When was you born? And we found out we were born on the same day so it seems as though fate decreed that I should find him you know. His relatives. And we were keeping in regular contact with her. And we found out that he was with the 1160 Heavy Conversion Unit from Blyton near Gainsborough where he was killed. And so he was killed just up the road from where we live now.
DE: I see. And what, what was it that made you think it was important to tell this story?
TW: Well I think everybody who was in the air force should be recognised if it can be. And being out on this car ride and seeing that I thought well something ought to be done so that’s when I set about doing it. But I didn’t think I’d come against so many brick walls. But you do but you get through in the end you know. But the point I can never understand why his wife had him buried in Beverley. Why she told his family he’d been killed over Germany. There’s something funny there.
DE: Yeah.
TW: And you see all those there was about fifteen came. None of them knew him. There was his sister in law and his brother. Well not his brother because his brother had been killed. But his sister in law there and his nephews and that. But none of them knew him. Even his sister in law didn’t know him. But this cousin she’s brilliant. She keeps in, there’s a photograph in there of her and she always readily comes. What I want now when this gets seed I don’t know how they’re going to work it at the spire. In the plaques. But he’s Cumberworth and so whether they’ll put 1160 Conversion Unit in or not or whether it will just be a plaque with C’s on. Names of C’s.
DE: It’s alphabetical. Yes. I mean –
TW: Yeah. Cause I know a lady in the village she’s been down and she’s found her father’s name. And hers is J so I thought C must be up if J’s. J’s there.
DE: What’s there at the moment is 1 Group and 5 Group.
TW: Oh he must have been in one of them. She’s got – they gave me their memory card to put on the computer and there’s a picture of her pointing to her dad’s name.
DE: Yeah.
TW: Yeah.
DE: Yeah. So I think this gentleman will be on –
TW: Cumberworth.
DE: Cumberworth will be on the next lot of names that go up. Yeah. Yeah. Leslie Cumberworth.
TW: So if I can manage to get a photograph sometime I’ll get one.
DE: Yeah.
TW: I can get and get a photograph and send it to his cousin. She’d be really grateful.
DE: Yeah. I’m sure we can arrange that when the names are up.
TW: Yeah.
DE: Yeah. So you said earlier you’ve never joined any squadron associations or any, any groups.
TW: I’ve joined the RAF Association.
DE: Right.
TW: Yeah. But Hull’s useless. Right from the very start, useless. They said they were short of money. So I did a mini market for them and I raised five hundred pound. And the lady who did the catering she did everything. Paid all her expenses like I do. Pay all expenses so everything you get is profits. I handed that money over to a flight lieutenant in cash and I’ve got a letter of thanks for a receipt. Where did that money go? I’m sure they’d have sent me a receipt if they’d got the money –
DE: Yeah.
TW: But I didn’t realise it at the time. It was afterwards I thought about it you know. And then I went down and I said I’d organise a competition. They said, ‘Oh you can’t do it because you’re not on the committee.’ I said, ‘I’m not joining the committee because I know what would happen. I’d end up doing everything.’ I said I like to everything. So, I said so I was working at Everthorpe then so I got a thousand copies done. So I said if you give every member ten copies you get a pound from every member. That’s a tenner each. If I give you a prize for the winner. So I gave them a lovely Parker, Parker pen and pencil set. That got pinched. ‘Cause they said I said to them when I went down I said, ‘Well you’ve got a prize to go with it so,’ I said, ‘Parker pen and pencil set.’ But it wasn’t there upstairs in the office.
DE: Oh dear.
TW: So I said, ‘Well have you started yet?’ So they said, ‘No. No. They said, so I started, ‘Oh you can’t start it. You’re not on the committee.’ So I said, ‘Have you started that?’ So she said, ‘No, not yet but,’ she said, ‘We’ll buy a prize out of what we make.’ I said, ‘No. I’ll give you another prize.’ When I do a thing I stand the expenses myself. I always have done. So I saw her a fortnight after. Four pound. I said, ‘You what? Four pound?’ I said, ‘I’ve done it twice and I’ve made over fifty pound each time.’ Then in 19 what 60s 70s fifty pound was a lot of money in them days. So I stopped going then ‘cause my son has joined as associate members.
DE: Yeah.
TW: And my daughter in law. Well the third time I went my daughter in law won the jackpot. You should have heard them. ‘You’ve only been here three weeks.’ I said, I went to the bar, I said, ‘Is this the way they go on?’ He said, ‘What do you mean?’ I said, ‘Well, I said we’re supposed to be an air force group,’ I said esprit de corps, where is it?’
DE: Yeah.
TW: I said we’ve joined and paid our money. So I went in one night and I sat in this chair and this woman tapped me on the shoulder and said, ‘Excuse me, she said, ‘That’s my chair.’ I said, ‘I beg your pardon?’ She said, ‘That’s my chair.’ So I got up. ‘Well it hasn’t got your name on it.’ So I said, ‘I’m not moving.’ And this was how good our club was. We had a trip to [pause] the memorial down in London. Castleford invited us back for supper. And they did a fantastic spread. Absolutely brilliant. So we invited them down to our club. I went down on the Wednesday night when it was due. There was only me and another fella in the club. The chap behind the bar, he said ‘We don’t usually see you here on a Wednesday night Tom.’ So I said, ‘Well, where is everybody?’ ‘Why?’ he said. ‘Castleford are coming tonight.’ ‘No they’re not.’ ‘Yes they are.’ With that the door opened. They all walked in. So I said, ‘I do apologise but I said, ‘You’ve picked the wrong club to come to because this is useless. This club.’
DE: Oh dear.
TW: I said, ‘I’ve just come in,’ I said, ‘And it’s obvious they’ve forgotten.’ So they had to dash out and buy pie, pea and chips. No. I wouldn’t join no committee. I used to run a coffee morning every Wings week. We raised quite a lot of money. Got some good, one prize we had was a Hornby Double O train set. Folks said, ‘We like your coffee mornings because you always have a good raffle.’ I said it’s the people that you know they can get something from me. Where you go to you know.
DE: Yes.
TW: Very generous. You know.
DE: So apart from that Association what do you think about the way Bomber Command’s been remembered over the last.
TW: Very poor. Very poor. I mean the spire when it was opened. Did BBC do anything about it?
DE: I think –
TW: No. Only local stations. But BBC, I mean there’s all the people around the country in bomber command. BBC should have been doing that as well. I think their biased.
DE: Why do you think that is?
TW: Well, why weren’t they there? I mean you don’t seem to get much about the RAF or anything like that on the BBC.
[pause]
TW: I’m an old man. I do things differently. If I get a letter I answer it straight away. Anything that I’ve done I do it straight away but today it’s so lackadaisical. I mean this cousin of the airman. I sent some things about the Association and some photographs. A month ago. I’ve never had, I rang her up and said I’m sending you this parcel. I’ve never had a telephone call, an email or anything to say she’s got it. I just can’t understand folks.
[pause]
DE: Hello. I’ll just pause it there a moment.
[recording paused]
DE: That’s fine I’ve just started it recording again. Sorry about the interruption. Is there anything else? Any other stories that you think you’d like to tell us?
TW: I don’t think so because we covered it pretty well cause my memory is not as good as it was and I get, I’m talking and I go blank.
DE: I think you’ve done very very well.
TW: Yeah. So but I think no I think we’ve covered it really well.
DE: Just one other thing I think you covered it in the phone conversation when we were arranging this. What do you think about the stories of people like yourself and ground personnel have to tell?
TW: Pardon?
DE: What do you think about the stories of ground personnel? How well do you think they’ve been remembered?
TW: They haven’t. Because somebody was saying if it wasn’t for ground crew the bombs wouldn’t have gone off. But we haven’t been remembered. You never hear anybody talk about us. We’re just a forgotten crew. But I’m not worried because I did my best so. They rewarded me with a mention in dispatches so I can’t complain.
DE: Oh. How. What was the story behind that?
TW: I’ve no idea.
DE: No.
TW: All I can think it was because we helped Professor Cox design his target indicator bomb and alter the tail fins for [pause] to get the bombs on to Mosquitoes. I can’t think of anything else that I’ve done that’s deserving of it. Because getting out on D-day I mean that was just part of the job I think.
DE: Yeah.
TW: So [pause] and my grandson has my medals and my certificate because he’s a keen, very keen on what his granddad’s done. So he said, ‘Can I have your medals granddad.’ So I said, ‘Yeah. You can have that as well.’
DE: That’s wonderful.
TW: Because I know you’ll look after them.
DE: Yeah.
TW: So this is I’ll be able to tell my son. Show his photograph of his granddad and what he’s done. And he’s got my war memoir so he’s got that so. So I’ve got something to show him when he grows up.
DE: Wonderful. Right. So I’ll press pause there and thank you very very much.
TW: Pleasure.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Thomas Waller
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-25
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AWallerT151027
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
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Dan Ellin
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.hh:mm:ss
Format
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00:56:09 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Waller volunteered for the Royal Air Force and hoped to be a driver. However, he undertook training as an armourer and was based initially at the Special Operations Executive 138 Squadron. He was posted to RAF Stradishall, RAF Wyton and RAF Warboys. He returned from leave on one occasion and had just arrived back on the station when a massive explosion occured. He helped to develop and test target indicators with Professor Cox. He recently undertook research into the details of a Halifax crash to make sure the airmen were remembered.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Suffolk
England--Cambridgeshire
Contributor
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Julie Williams
138 Squadron
156 Squadron
bombing
bombing up
crash
final resting place
ground crew
ground personnel
Halifax
Lancaster
memorial
military living conditions
Mosquito
Pathfinders
RAF Stradishall
RAF Upwood
RAF Warboys
RAF Wyton
sanitation
Special Operations Executive
target indicator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2059/33805/PJordanT2101.1.jpg
09dc6a2488b7ac7e723e9f142c075dd6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2059/33805/AJordanT210922.2.mp3
678f99e1e9fc2e1dd5cdd1e36d1c8060
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jordan, Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Thomas Jordan (b. 1916, 635545 Royal Air Force). He served as an armourer at RAF Cosford, RAF Scampton, and the Middle East.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-09-22
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Jordan, T
Requires
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Thomas Jordan was born and raised up in Hornsea, East Yorkshire, learning to fly privately at Hedon aerodrome, near Hull and joined the RAF wanting to be a pilot. However, after failing the eyesight requirements, he trained as an armourer, dealing with transporting, arming them and loading the bombs on to the aircraft. On one occasion, moving several bombs through Lincoln, one fell of the transport, rolling down the hill, scattering people, although there were no injuries and of course it was not live. Thomas also undertook bomb disposal, travelling to crashed aircraft and making the bombload safe. Working from RAF Cosford in Shropshire, RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire and also spending time in Aden, now a part of Yemen, Thomas worked on several different aircraft, including Lancaster, Halifax and Mosquito bombers. While he stated that working closely with explosives was safe, mostly, he did lose several friends to accidents.
Andrew St.Denis
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DJ: Do you want me to sit around that side?
DE: No. You’re fine. So, this is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. My name is Dan Ellin. I’m here to interview Thomas Jordan. Also present is his son, David Jordan. It is the 22nd of September 2021 and we are in Hornsea. Mr Jordan, thank you for agreeing to see me.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: I wondered if we could start, if you could tell a little about your early life and where you grew up.
TJ: Where I grew up?
DE: Yes. Please.
TJ: Hornsea, I think.
DE: What was it like there?
TJ: Eh?
DE: What was it like as a child?
TJ: I think it was quite good actually. I think it was better than [unclear] No. I had a good childhood. I was very lucky. Swimming in the sea and, you know.
DE: What did, what did your parents do?
TJ: Dad was a tailor. Mum was just a housewife.
DE: Where, and whereabouts did you live in Hornsea?
TJ: Well, we lived up Atwick Road but the shop was in Southgate, Hornsea. A tailor’s shop. Dad and his brother were in business together.
DE: Right. And how, why, why did you end up in the RAF, rather than becoming a tailor and following the family?
TJ: Why did — ?
DE: Why did you end up in the RAF? How did you join the RAF?
TJ: I didn’t want to go in the tailor’s business. That was the main thing. They had it all laid for me on a plate but I didn’t want it so that’s why I went in the RAF.
DE: When, when did you join?
TJ: Oh God, now [pause] I haven’t a clue. During the war. I think it was during the war. I can’t remember whether the war had started. I’m not sure. I, I, I, think I joined before. Before the war started. In the Air Force. I feel as though I did. How would I know?
DE: It’s, we’ve, we’ve got your record. That’s fine.
DJ: You worked after school dad didn’t you on a chicken farm? Did you work on a chicken farm after school?
TJ: Sorry?
DJ: Did you work on a chicken farm after school?
TJ: In Hornsea. Yes.
DJ: And then you left that to go in the RAF.
TJ: No. And then I went down the road. I think I joined the Air Force from there.
DJ: Yeah. That’s, yeah that’s what—
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: That’s what I thought. Yeah.
DE: What was it like on the chicken farm?
TJ: Eh?
DE: What was the chicken farm like?
TJ: It was alright. It was a good life. But it was a bit, if anything a bit, not quite a farm. It was, it was, it was interesting and a good outdoor life.
DE: But you fancied the, you fancied a change and you joined the RAF.
TJ: That was it. Right. Yeah.
DE: Did you want, did you want to fly?
TJ: Yes. Well, I could fly like private but my eyes weren’t good enough for the RAF. I wanted to fly. That’s why I went in. Yeah. But I had an air licence. I could go and borrow a plane now.
DE: Oh ok.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: When did learn to fly?
TJ: Hedon. Hedon Aerodrome just outside Hull.
DE: Right.
DJ: Hedon. Near here.
DE: Yeah.
DJ: You know that.
DE: Yeah. Was that expensive?
TJ: I don’t know really. I think it would have done it if I’d stayed there a long while but it, it wasn’t, wasn’t too bad for a start. If you [unclear] and just wanted to go for an hour’s flight it was pricey.
DE: So, you, you always felt, you were always drawn to the RAF then.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: You wouldn’t have joined the Army or the Navy.
TJ: Well, you know I liked flying, you know. I think I had an air licence. I’m not sure. At one stage I could have gone and borrowed a plane if I’d wanted. For me I couldn’t have taken you. I think I could have borrowed one for me.
DE: So, were you a bit disappointed when they wouldn’t let you be a pilot in the RAF?
TJ: Well, my eyes weren’t good enough. No, I wanted to fly. Yeah.
DE: So, what was, what was your trade?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: What was your trade? Instead of being a pilot what happened?
TJ: I went as a, well somebody told me if you go as an armourer later on when you’ve passed your test you can have another test and sometimes your eyes improve enough to get pilot. So, I went as an armourer in the RAF but it didn’t work. No. I was still a bit potty.
DE: So, what was, what was the training like for that?
TJ: Very good. Very, very good. Yes. [pause] I had a good time in the RAF. I was alright.
DE: So, were you working with bombs or bullets or both?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: Were you, were you working with bombs or bullets or both?
TJ: I was in as an armourer. I was on bomb disposal. That’s what I used to work on. You know, if a plane had come down and crashed I used to go and make the bombs safe before they took them away and that sort of thing. Cushy job.
DE: Really? Unexploded bombs a cushy job.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: Did you, did you ever have to dispose of any, any German bombs?
TJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At Cosford. Yeah. They were alright. They weren’t, they weren’t dangerous. Well, if you did the wrong thing they would have been but no, they weren’t.
DE: So, how did —
TJ: One rolled down the hill in Lincoln. Right to the bottom of the hill in Lincoln. If you’d seen people scatter. But there was, there’s no detonator in. It couldn’t have gone off. It couldn’t have gone off but there were people getting out of wheelchairs and everything.
DE: Was that, was that one of theirs or one of ours?
TJ: No. We’d just been to fetch them from the station and one happened to roll off. It rolled off. One of the, it was my fault really. We were in such a bloody hurry. It rolled down the hill. People leaping out of wheelchairs and all sorts to get out of the way. It wouldn’t have gone off.
DE: So, they’re safe unless they’re fused then basically.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: Yeah. So, you mentioned you were stationed at Cosford.
TJ: Sorry?
DE: You were at Cosford.
TJ: Yes. Yeah.
DE: What was that like there?
TJ: Well, it was quite good you see, but we were needed at Birmingham where, a bomb disposal there because Birmingham was always getting quite a lot of bombing. So, I was on there, and then I was at [unclear]. No discipline much. It was very good. You did your own thing within reason as long you did your job.
DE: So as long as you stopped the bombs going bang you were —
TJ: Sorry?
DE: As long as you stopped the bombs exploding you could do what you wanted.
TJ: It was alright. A good life.
DE: Was there, was there many of you there?
TJ: When, when I first went to Cosford I think there was, there was an NCO, another one, myself, and then there was an armament officer just used to come and not, not do anything. Just sign the thing and see you were doing things properly.
DE: So, did you, did you do any of the, of the digging the bombs out or did somebody else do that?
TJ: Did what?
DE: Did you have to dig bombs out where they’d landed or did —
TJ: Oh yeah.
DE: Yeah.
TJ: Yeah. Well, planes were always crashing anyhow. In orchards and all sorts of things. Somebody had to make them safe but it was no big deal.
DE: But later on in the war some of these bombs were, you know huge. Really heavy to —
TJ: I can’t quite remember. I think I went in to Lincolnshire. I’m not sure. I’m sure I did. There was a bomb disposal place at Cosford. I think I was there for a bit. I’m trying to think.
DJ: When Steve was over.
TJ: Sorry?
DJ: When Steve was over here, when Steve was over he took you around didn’t he? And one of the places you —
TJ: I can’t hear what David’s saying.
DJ: One place you went to was Scampton.
TJ: When I went to Scampton.
DJ: You were based at Scampton, weren’t you for part —
TJ: Yeah. I was at Scampton. I’m just trying to think. No. I think I was in charge of the bomb dump at Scampton on Bomber Command. I was with 5 Group then at Scampton. But Scampton itself then was a little satellite, and they used to send us out to these to bomb them up rather than do them in Scampton itself. Satellite places. I think it was in case we got bombed, you see they weren’t all together at Scampton area. Happy days.
DE: So, what, what was a typical day like working at the bomb dump at Scampton?
TJ: It varied you see. If you was, if you was in charge and just dishing stuff out that was not so bad but if you were pushed for men and doing the jobs yourself it was hard work. You never had a minute to spare and you know, things had to be right. You couldn’t just leave them. That was at Cosford. And there was a big dump outside Lincoln itself. I’m just trying to think where that was. Something to do with 5 Group but I can’t remember what the 5 was.
DE: I’m trying to think where it was as well. It’s, I think it was, I think it was up near Brigg wasn’t it? Or there was one up there and they moved. They used to move the bombs by train, didn’t they?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: They used to move the bombs by train.
TJ: Oh, not always. Some were taken from the station just on trailers, you know. A trailer with about probably a dozen bombs on. You go trundling through the town and [laughs] and one rolled off in Lincoln down the hill. If you’d seen people bloody scatter. It wouldn’t have gone off.
DE: No.
TJ: It rolled off a lorry at Lincoln station. Do you know Lincoln?
DE: I’m from, I’m from Lincoln.
TJ: Well, you know the hill outside there.
DE: Yeah.
TJ: It rolled all the way down that hill.
DE: It’s a big hill.
TJ: I know people [laughs] people scattered. They wouldn’t have gone off. They were alright.
DE: So, when, when you were working at the bomb dump was it, did, who did, who did the fusing and putting the fins on the bombs?
TJ: I’m sorry I’m just a bit deaf.
DE: Who, who, who put the fuses in and who put the fins on the bombs?
TJ: Was what?
DE: Who, whose job was it to put the fuses in the bombs?
TJ: Well, whoever was in charge at the bomb dump at the time, you see. If it was me, my time I mean, I would do it. I’d do the fusing. Whoever was in charge. Then you had to sign, you know. But against all the bombs you’d made ok.
DE: You see quite a lot. You see films of WAAFs driving the tractors with the trailers with all the bombs on.
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
DE: Yeah.
TJ: Well, men. There was no, no spare men to be driving tractors. Nearly always WAAFs.
DE: So, did, when, when you were loading the aircraft up —
TJ: Sorry?
DE: When you were loading the aircraft with bombs —
TJ: Yeah.
DE: Did you send out all the high explosive bombs and then the incendiaries or did you send one load to one aircraft?
TJ: You get to know what your bomb load was. Generally, incendiaries were on their own. Odd times you’d get incendiaries and others, but in general incendiaries, they were different lighter bombs. They were just sent on their own.
DE: Did you have to, did you have to pack those in the cases?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: Did you have to pack those in the cases? In the bomb cases?
TJ: The incendiaries? Well, that was most of them were like hexagonal and they fit rotated together in like a box. There was probably about ten incendiaries. They weren’t shaped like bombs. They were hexagonal. The long ones. The bigger incendiary bombs, there was probably one or two 250s, but generally incendiary bombs were hexagonal. No tails on them or anything.
DE: No.
TJ: And they just flopped about all over when they went down.
DE: What, what were the biggest ones? The biggest bombs that you, you had to work with?
TJ: I’m just trying to think. I know there was a few 250s but I think odd one 500 but not many. Nearly. They were 250s.
DE: You didn’t get —
TJ: But they weren’t incendiaries. They were HE.
DE: Yeah.
TJ: Incendiaries were only about that big and they weren’t like bombs. They were, hexagonal. They were a funny shape. Most of them anyway.
DE: So, did you not, did you not work with the cookies? The really big bombs.
TJ: Did what?
DE: Did you work with the cookies?
TJ: With?
DE: With the cookies. The, the big four thousand pounders, and eight thousand pounders.
TJ: I was once. Once. They were big bloody things with them as well. Yeah. No. I was on once. It was just how I were telling your fella it was nothing special. You just went two armourers out the bombs and there was half a dozen bombs to load up, and whatever the way you do it. With the [pause] the really big cookies, they were, I think they were more frightening than what they did damage.
DE: Were there ever, were there ever any accidents?
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah. Not that often but at, on Lincolnshire, on the main road just outside the camp there was a field. It was almost devastated. About three or four bombs had gone off and killed everybody there. The bomb dump at [pause] outside Lincoln. It was about five miles from Lincoln, and the one field it just cleared everything that was on the field. Yeah. HEs and stuff to play about with.
DE: So, did you, did you have to deal with, with any hang ups?
TJ: Any?
DE: Hang ups.
TJ: Hang ups? What do you mean? What? Taking them off the plane again?
DE: Yeah.
TJ: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Used to have to change the load half way through before they got off the ground sometimes. Yeah. You were always taking them on and off. You’d get all bombed up, and then you’d have to take them all off and put something else on.
DE: How did that make you feel?
TJ: Eh?
DE: How did you feel about doing the same job twice?
TJ: How did I feel?
DE: Yeah.
TJ: Not happy at all. When they used to go there was probably about twenty bombs which I’d put the detonators in and I knew it was made for killing probably hundreds of people maybe but that was part of it but I wasn’t happy at all. It was your job. You did it, didn’t you? Oh dear. Because you know, the bomb dropping wasn’t that accurate. You know, they dropped on civvies as well as. The main thing was to drop the bombs and get the hell out of it [pause] No future in war is there? Whatever side you’re on.
[pause]
DE: What was it, what was it like then living on, on a station? Did you have good close friendships with people?
TJ: Well, you get that, where there’s a bit of danger friendships form, you know. They do automatically, I think. Worst job were when planes didn’t get off. Probably crashed on going off and you had probably half a dozen bombs on board. And they were bloody dangerous, you know. If they hadn’t gone off them was the worst thing because anything could happen. Loads of people got killed like that.
DE: Was that people you knew that happened to?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: Was that people you knew that that happened to?
TJ: I can’t, I’m a bit potty and deaf.
DE: I say, you know when planes didn’t get off and they’d got a load of bombs on did any, did any of your friends get hurt trying to take them off the trolley?
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah. A few got killed. Yeah. Well, sometimes four of you working on a plane and somebody hands a spanner to somebody and they shouldn’t have done. They were magnetic and blew the lot of them up, you know. Four or five. Working against the clock as well you do daft things.
DE: So, it was, it was hard work. It was dangerous work.
TJ: No. It wasn’t particularly hard work but we, you had to watch what you were doing and as long as your mate knew what you were doing it was all right. But when you were working against the clock that’s when accidents happened. Yeah. A few of them, you know went off in Lincolnshire at the bomb dump. It would be all over the world I would imagine.
DE: But you, you worked quite well as a team and you trusted each other.
TJ: Sorry?
DE: You worked as a team and you trusted each other.
TJ: In general, but there would be the armourer who was in charge I mean of putting the last detonator in or put the switch over to make it live. Anybody could mess about and shove the things in within reason. But there was only one who signed their death warrant who was responsible for, you know, just connecting the detonators up. Until they were in there was no, you could, you could kick them along the ground. The bombs.
DJ: I remember a photograph you used to have, dad. You had a photograph of you sitting on a bomb. On a —
TJ: Sorry?
DJ: We had a photograph of you sitting on a bomb on a trolley.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: With a load of other people. It looked like a big bomb to me.
TJ: Oh, they were.
DJ: And what was that? Did they, did they load them with chains and things?
TJ: I could imagine it being a whatsit. Was it a big bomb? A big bulky one.
DJ: Yeah. Very.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: Very bulky. Yeah.
TJ: Maybe a long load. Maybe a long load. Only one bomb on the plane maybe.
DJ: Looked like it.
TJ: Going a long way.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: Was that in Lincolnshire?
DJ: I don’t know.
TJ: I would imagine so. Yeah.
DJ: No. It was a photograph. I just remember it as a kid. Seeing it. Yeah.
TJ: They were, in an old bomb they were like —
DJ: Landmines.
TJ: On the phone we used to call them veg. So, we used to say what we’d need. So many veg. So many sprouts and that thing. You didn’t talk bombs. It was all veg for secrecy but —
DE: Well, the vegetables, were mines weren’t they? For shipping.
TJ: It was all, most men had the name of veg. You said, ‘What’s the veg situation today?’ And you’d tell them, you know.
DJ: Oh right.
TJ: You just, you didn’t talk about bombs, you know.
DE: So —
TJ: Happy days.
DE: Aye. What, what aircraft were there that you were — ?
TJ: Lancies and Halifaxes. Then a few [pause] them fast little planes.
DE: Mosquitoes?
TJ: No. One like the Mosquito. They’re very I wouldn’t say light planes but they used to go just across the Channel.
DE: Oh.
TJ: Yeah. [pause] Happy days.
DE: Did you have, did you, did you have to load them by hand or did you have powered winches?
TJ: What was that?
DE: Did you have to load them by hand or did you have powered winches?
TJ: Well, there was both. You had, you had trollies which you could yank them up but if it was a light plane just taking a few you could do it by hand. But a Lancie like a big plane they were too heavy for, to manhandle.
DE: And they’re quite high up as well, aren’t they?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: They’re quite high up as well, aren’t they?
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
DE: Yeah.
TJ: But they had winches. It was, it wasn’t particularly heavy. Where there were winches you could winch them up.
DE: Did you, did you ever get to associate with the aircrew?
TJ: Well, at night time you’d share the mess you see. You know them all by, like I shared a bedroom with one sergeant [bang noise] Sorry.
DJ: Don’t worry about that.
TJ: That’s how close we were. Yeah. Happy days.
DJ: Did you socialise much with the —
TJ: Eh?
DJ: Did you socialise much with the aircrew?
TJ: Well, you see there was four bunks and there was two of us in each bunk. Most of them were aircrew but I happened to be the armourer on that section, you see. No. You didn’t. When you were done you feel too bloody tired. There wasn’t much socialising. There was a bit but not a lot. You’d have to get to bed.
DE: What, what about the WAAFs?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: What about the WAAFs?
TJ: What? Did they liked to get to bed [laughs] Same as everywhere throughout the world. There were saucy beggars and there were those that weren’t. No. But they were good workers were the WAAFs. They were really. I’d have rather have done a plane with WAAFs than blokes, because blokes were always messing about with the girls. They don’t concentrate on what they’re doing. No. I had a good life. It’s funny. Odd stations. One station the food and everything would be marvellous, and on another absolute rubbish, you know. If you got one with good food you could put up with anything. We used to do silly things, you know. Not blow the mess up, you know. Ever so careless. You see, if you were working with armaments all the time it gets ordinary. You know, it’s dangerous but it doesn’t seem to you because you were working with it all the time.
DE: What sort of things did you get up to when you went on leave?
TJ: Eh?
DE: What did you do when you went on leave?
TJ: Well, I was married. I mean some of the blokes were a bit wild and had some wild nights out. If you were going on a bombing raid on Friday night and you had a chance of a bit of high jinks you had it didn’t you, you know. But I wasn’t aircrew. I flew. I wasn’t, I wasn’t aircrew. I used to go on odd raids because I had to report on what had happened but I never went on a raid as such. It must have been hairy.
[pause]
DJ: Did you know where the, did you know where they were going? If you loaded a plane —
TJ: Sorry?
DJ: If you loaded a plane did you know where it was going?
TJ: Not always.
DJ: Sometimes you did.
TJ: Sometimes you’d go into the room and he’d take three of you into a room and he’d tell those three but the rest of the people didn’t know.
DJ: Didn’t know.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: Was that out of secrecy?
TJ: Well, it could have frightened them a bit [laughs] No. It was a good life. It really was.
DJ: All of it?
TJ: Most of it. Got some sloppy runs but no. I’ve nothing to grumble about. More to grumble about at home. Yeah.
DJ: What do you mean?
TJ: Well, the discipline, and you know. You’ll be working all night maybe ‘til three in the morning, and then he’d come you’d got a bloody button undone and the SP would do you. That sort of thing.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: Yeah. Oh, it was a good life.
DJ: So, you’d get into trouble for that.
TJ: Sorry?
DJ: Did you get into trouble then?
TJ: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because half the time people had been working overnight, an SP would spot him and he’d get thumped, you know.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: But when you’d been working all night and somebody in the, SP in the guard room you’ve got a button undone or something. But generally it was alright.
[pause]
DE: There’s a couple of times, I’ve seen on your record there’s a couple of times you were in hospital.
TJ: Sorry?
DE: There’s a couple of times on your record you were in hospital.
TJ: I’m not hearing very good.
DE: There’s a couple of times on your record that you were in hospital.
DJ: Hospital dad. You were in hospital.
TJ: Was I?
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: What had I done?
DJ: I was hoping you’d tell us.
DE: Yeah.
DJ: Just a minute [unclear] he did say.
TJ: No. I don’t think it was anything exciting. Well, when I was on bomb disposal[unclear] it probably was a bit exciting but as such —
DJ: You used to get nose bleeds, didn’t you?
TJ: Eh?
DJ: You used to get really bad nose bleeds when you were younger.
TJ: Well, bombing up you see you bend down. You bend down while you were working and by the time you finished and then you stand up and then your nose starts to bleed but it wasn’t, it didn’t bother me. It’s messy but —
DJ: Yeah. Cosford you were in hospital dad. A couple of times.
TJ: I think I was on bomb disposal at Cosford wasn’t I?
DJ: I don’t know dad, from this.
TJ: No.
DJ: I’m not used to reading.
TJ: Yeah. I was there for about a year.
DJ: Reading this stuff.
TJ: Yeah. Get all sorts of perks.
DE: Ok. Tell me some.
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
DJ: Go on.
DE: Tell us. Tell us what the perks were?
TJ: Eh?
DE: What were the perks?
TJ: No. I can’t go in to any details.
DJ: It might be interesting. I’ll leave the room if you want, dad. Do you want me to leave the room if you want, if you want to tell the —
TJ: What was that?
DE: He’s saying if you don’t want to tell him you can just tell me.
TJ: Is he? No. I’m just trying to think [pause] On bomb disposal I used to get about ten times the leave other people got. Yeah. That was one thing. You’d probably do two weeks of bomb disposal and get three weeks leave. No. It was ever so good was that.
DJ: What, what about unofficial leave?
TJ: Eh?
DJ: What about unofficial leave?
TJ: What was that?
DE: Was there any unofficial leave?
TJ: Was there what?
DE: Unofficial leave. Did you —
TJ: Oh no. Well, people would work it so that [pause] I think we got three months leave, but on top of that if you were on bomb disposal and that sort of thing they could work out all sorts of leave for you. Yeah. I bet I, I bet I got three months leave a year. It was nice. It was a good life. I’ve got no complaints.
DE: And you were married so you used to go home.
TJ: Eh?
DE: You were married so you used to go home.
TJ: I got married during the war, didn’t I?
DJ: Yeah. I think you did, dad.
TJ: I wasn’t married when I went in the RAF.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: But I got married during the war.
DJ: You did.
TJ: I think.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: Or when I came back. I don’t know.
DJ: It was during the war. I think you went to, you lived in Wolverhampton, didn’t you?
TJ: Very possibly. Yeah.
DJ: Mum moved.
TJ: Yeah. A good life in the RAF. It was a good life. Good food. Plenty. More leave than most people.
DE: And when did, when did you come out?
TJ: After the war, I think. Did I? After the war I believe. I can’t remember. I had a good little number somewhere. I don’t remember where it was. Like on bomb disposal. I got all sorts of perks and leave. I mean the bomb disposal, if a bomb had dropped on your place well, they’re ever so easy to handle. No danger. Well, not much danger anyway. Every bomb disposer had about a weeks leave, you know. There was no danger.
DE: Did you experience any of the, any of the bombing then?
TJ: Did what?
DE: Were you, were bombed at all?
TJ: Did what?
DE: Were you bombed?
TJ: No. I was on bomb disposal.
DE: Did the Germans drop bombs on you? Were you —
TJ: Odd times, yeah. But, nothing very near. They did sometimes at night when you were in bed. You’d go to sleep, and, I don’t say there’d be a bomb next to you in bed. In the building next door maybe. You didn’t know where it had come down. It was whistling until you couldn’t put lights on you see. Pitch dark. And then you’d find a bomb not next to your bed, but in the cookhouse and that sort of thing that hadn’t gone off. Thems the worst ones. You didn’t know about. Oh dear.
DJ: You went to Aden, dad. At the end.
TJ: Eh?
DJ: You, had, you were in Aden for a while.
TJ: What was that?
DJ: Aden. Do you remember? You went to Aden.
TJ: Aden.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
DJ: What was that about?
TJ: I’m just trying to think. It was dangerous down there but it was dangerous with the Arabs coming in and sneaking in to the camp and blowing your stuff up. The Arabs were the trouble when I was at Aden. Yeah. That was the biggest problem. They were all getting blown up in the bomb dump. Sneak in, or even throw something in the bomb dump. They didn’t like us very much. That was, but they didn’t treat them very well. When you’d been bombing up you’d give them a sandwich and then tell them it was meat, you know and they’d go and try to be sick.
DJ: Oh.
TJ: Happy days.
DJ: So, were you loading bombs then in Aden, was —
TJ: What?
DJ: Were you on an air base?
TJ: Was I?
DJ: Was it an air base in Aden or were you doing bomb disposal?
TJ: Oh no. It was an air base. It was operational was Aden.
DJ: It was what?
TJ: Yeah.
DE: Operational.
DJ: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
TJ: They used to fly over, and on rainy days they would drop a bomb with a detonator in which hadn’t gone off and let them sort it out, you know. They would always blow themselves up. That was the tribesmen. Just ordinary bomb with a detonator in. Then you’d hear a bloody great bang. Probably killed about twenty people. We, we weren’t very popular when I were at Aden.
DE: And then I guess you came back to England.
TJ: Sorry?
DE: Then you came back to England and I suppose you were demobbed.
TJ: Yeah.
DE: What was, what was that like?
TJ: Have I been demobbed?
DJ: Yeah. You’ve been demobbed dad. Yeah.
TJ: Have I?
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: I don’t know. I had some good friends in, in the RAF. You know, you make good friends. Lifetime friends really. Probably don’t see somebody for about eight month, nine month and then everybody was so pleased to see each other. No. It was a good life but I was with Bomber Command most of the time. In Lincolnshire. Happy times.
DE: What did you do after the war?
TJ: Sorry?
DE: What did you do after the war?
TJ: I’m damned if I know. I can’t remember.
DJ: Well, mum was at Hornsea. Weren’t you living in Hornsea when I was little?
TJ: Where was I?
DJ: Well, at the farm.
TJ: The poultry farm.
DJ: For a while.
TJ: I seem to remember something about a poultry job.
DE: No. No.
TJ: Up at, up [unclear]
DE: But that, that was before the war dad. After the war you were living at Desmond Avenue.
TJ: Where?
DE: Desmond Avenue in Hornsea.
TJ: Yes.
DE: You got your own flat there or something with mum, and then you bought the house in Withernsea.
TJ: Yeah. I’m trying to think about Desmond Avenue. Was I in the RAF then?
DJ: I think it was after you’d been demobbed. Mum was living on the farm because she was from a farming family, my mum, in Hornsea and you came back from the RAF so you’d been demobbed and things.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: And then you, you did you went and learned to be a bricklayer.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: Didn’t you? You went to train.
TJ: Oh, I did that training course, didn’t I?
DJ: I don’t, I know it was a course in —
TJ: I think so. I’m not sure where I went. Where I went after that.
DJ: Kettlewell’s.
TJ: Eh?
DJ: Kettlewells. Kettle. A company called Kettlewell’s, a big builders.
TJ: Pardon?
DJ: That’s where you were worked for many years.
TJ: Yes. Yes. I worked, I worked for them in Hull.
DJ: Yeah. That’s right.
TJ: Yeah. Kettlewells.
DJ: That’s right.
TJ: I know something about them as well.
DJ: Weren’t they involved in building the RAF —
TJ: Eh?
DJ: Weren’t they involved in building the RAF radar facility at Holmpton.
TJ: Maybe. I know something about it. About the radar place.
DJ: It was —
TJ: Weren’t I in Catfoss a bit?
DJ: You were in Catfoss during the war.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: I’m getting mixed up.
DE: So, do I.
DJ: Well, when you went to Withernsea.
TJ: Eh?
DJ: You lived at Withernsea quite a while.
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: You were working with the building trade, weren’t you?
TJ: Yeah. Yeah.
DJ: And then you bought a house.
TJ: Weren’t there an RAF camp at Patrington wasn’t there?
DJ: Yes. There was but you, yeah there was. It was nearby.
TJ: I knew something about that. I knew something about the bombs, you know. But that was at the aerodrome.
DJ: But the Patrington wasn’t an operational —
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: It wasn’t flying, was it? It was like an administrative base and they serviced this radar station at Holmpton I think.
TJ: I’m getting mixed up a bit.
DJ: That’s all right.
TJ: But being on bomb disposal they often used to fetch us out to Patrington if there were, didn’t know about the bombs. I used to know about the old ones. Happy days. [pause] Where would Patrington come in to it?
DJ: Well, you lived, when we left —
TJ: We’ve been there, I suppose.
DJ: No. You bought a house at Winestead, an old semi derelict —
TJ: Oh yes. Yeah.
DJ: House and rebuilt it didn’t you? That was his life work at one point.
DE: Right. Ok.
TJ: But we had some bombs at Catfoss which nobody knew anything about. They weren’t German. They weren’t. They just had codes on them and nobody knew what they were. I remember blowing them up.
DE: So that’s how, that’s how you used to make some bombs safe then. You’d take them away and then blow them up.
TJ: Sorry?
DE: You’d make some bombs safe by taking them away and blowing them up.
TJ: No. We just used to take the detonator out. You didn’t blow them up.
DE: Oh ok.
TJ: You took the detonators out. It was easy enough. Just pin and pick them up. It was when you couldn’t get at them and you had to roll them over. Most you could, you know get the detonators out and then kick them like a football.
DE: So, what, how did you treat the ones that you couldn’t get the detonator out of?
TJ: Well, just outside the aerodrome. We used to take them out and there would be a gunnery range and some big pits of sand. We used to put it in the sand and then blow them up. Some were too dangerous. You daren’t take them to the beach. You had to blow them up but if you could, in the sand and that they were alright from the range. From the firing range. Happy days. And I don’t know why but the range at Catfoss, the back of it got blown out altogether. I don’t know whether I was responsible. Somebody had done something wrong and it blew the back of the range out. It was probably me. I don’t know. Happy days.
DJ: During the war did you go into Lincoln? Did you go into Lincoln much?
TJ: Did what?
DJ: During the war —
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: Did you go in to Lincoln much? Did you visit Lincoln?
TJ: No. Did I do what during the war, Dave?
DJ: Go to Lincoln.
TJ: Yes.
DJ: In to Lincoln on a night or —
TJ: Oh yeah.
DJ: On your days off.
TJ: Yeah. No. Not a good night but there were nice pubs in Lincoln. They were all good. And if you were in uniform it wasn’t often you paid for beer, you know.
DJ: Oh right.
TJ: We had bomb disposal badges on, you see. Show them. It was —
DJ: Oh, that was worthwhile was it?
TJ: Free booze.
DE: Ok.
TJ: Happy days.
DE: I think, I think I will stop the interview unless have you got, have you got any other stories you’d like to tell me?
TJ: Offhand? [pause] Maybe. I was trying to think of some [pause] I think we had a bomb dump outside of camp at, in Lincolnshire. Just outside Lincoln. And there was six of us got blown up there. I was lucky. I’d just got out, but on bomb disposal there and I’d been. I’d done mine, and I went and let Fred, he had six to do. This was in Lincoln itself. He got blown up and killed. So, you get a second chance, you know. But most, most bombs were quite safe really. You’d go to the station and you’d bring about twenty, five hundred pounders back on the lorry. They’d sometimes roll off on the street. People in the street galloped for miles. But they wouldn’t go off on their own. That was from the station and they’d rolled down the hill in Lincoln. People galloping for bloody miles.
DJ: Who, who trained you?
TJ: Eh?
DJ: Who, what training did you get to start bomb disposal?
TJ: I was an armourer, you see. If you were an armourer, you did the lot.
DJ: And was that part of your armoury training then? How to dismantle bombs.
TJ: Yeah. Yeah.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: You did guns and bombs but if, when you went on something special you had to go on a special course.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: Because there were so many different machine guns and bombs and that.
DJ: Right.
TJ: You got your basic bomb training.
DJ: And that was it.
TJ: It covered most things but not everything. Bombs aren’t very nice things.
DJ: No.
TJ: You don’t get a second warning.
DJ: Did people ever refuse?
TJ: Eh?
DJ: Did people ever refuse to load bombs?
TJ: No. No.
DE: No.
TJ: No. A part of the job, you know. You did it. There might have been something dodgy. They would have been sort of, not gone off but semi, semi detonated.
DJ: So —
TJ: And people were scared.
DJ: So —
TJ: Yeah.
DJ: For safety reasons. Yeah.
TJ: You never sent anybody into that. You’d do it remote, you know. Blow it up. Because you couldn’t see how dangerous a detonator was. It was there, but you know. You didn’t take any chances. Blew it up away from the camp and away from the bombs. Explosives aren’t very nice.
DE: I think I’m going to, going to press pause now and we’ll stop. Ok. Are there any questions?
DJ: Not really. No. Not really.
DE: Ok. I’ll just say thank you very much for, for talking to me.
TJ: Sorry I’ve not much to tell you. I’ll probably remember something when you’ve gone.
DE: Oh, of course you will. Yeah.
DJ: Did you have a skirmish with the law? Did you have a skirmish with the law when you —
TJ: A what?
DJ: In Lincoln, did you have problems with the law? The police or the —
DE: Not really.
DJ: Authorities. There’s something in your record that I thought oh.
TJ: No. No, I had a good war down in Lincoln, you know.
DJ: Yeah.
TJ: I mean the bomb disposal we did it was like every day work after one day.
DJ: Yeah. Right. Ok.
DJ: Happy times.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Thomas Jordan
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dan Ellin
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-09-22
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Yemen (Republic)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Shropshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Lincoln
England--Hornsea
Yemen (Republic)--Aden
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Format
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00:52:55 Audio Recording
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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AJordanT210922
PJordanT2101
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Jordan was born and raised up in Hornsea, East Yorkshire, learning to fly privately at Hedon aerodrome, near Hull and joined the RAF wanting to be a pilot. However, after failing the eyesight requirements, he trained as an armourer, dealing with transporting, arming them and loading the bombs on to the aircraft. On one occasion, moving several not live bombs through Lincoln, one fell of the transport, rolling down the hill, scattering people, although there were no injuries. Thomas also undertook bomb disposal, travelling to crashed aircraft and making the bombload safe. Working from RAF Cosford in Shropshire, RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire and also spending time in Aden. Thomas worked on several different aircraft, including Lancaster, Halifax and Mosquito bombers. While he stated that working closely with explosives was safe, mostly, he did lose several friends to accidents.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Andy St. Denis
bomb disposal
bombing
bombing up
ground personnel
incendiary device
military living conditions
mine laying
RAF Cosford
RAF Scampton
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1113/11603/PSaunstonFR1701.1.jpg
ca99bc450ba7136ba5c937a1abc3cc8f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1113/11603/ASaunstonFR170522.2.mp3
a4ce3e36837e8676e9a26f29cb7f3ed4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Saunston, Frank
Frank R Saunston
F R Saunston
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Frank Stanston (b. 1925). He helped to pack supplies for Operation Manna.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Saunston, FR
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: So, this is David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre talking to Frank Staunton at his home on the 22nd of May. That’s ok.
US: I’ll show you these afterwards.
DK: Yeah, I can have a look now, that’s ok. I’ve got the recording going so, I’ll just leave that there. Alright, oh, ok. So, that’s from the Dutch, isn’t it?
US: Yeah.
DK: That’s the Ambassador of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
US: Yes
DK: That’s a contribution to Manna and then Operation Manna there. So, that’s the Manna Association, isn’t it?
US: Yes. It has something to do with Lincoln?
DK: Yes, oh yes, yes, all aspects of Bomber Command, the groundcrews,
US: Yes
DK: The bombing campaign and the Operation Manna and that sort of thing
US: Oh, just I didn’t realise the date was on it till just now.
DK: Yeah
US: The 20th of April to the 8th of May 1945.
DK: [unclear], isn’t it?
US: Yeah, yeah and that came with
DK: The medal as well. Ok.
US: Yes, and he got the medal and he had to wear that one [unclear] on parade
DK: Right, ok.
US: Yeah, yeah.
FS: Fifty years afterwards
DK: Better, better late than never
FS: Pardon?
DK: Better late than never.
US: Yes was quite [unclear] in that case
DK: Lovely, lovely [unclear] medal, isn’t it?
US: Yeah, that is lovely.
DK: Yeah
US: [unclear]
FS: [unclear] now, that’s the only one in 149 Squadron and 662 cause anybody’s got one
DK: Really?
FS: Yeah, cause I’ve been on the Mildenhall register
DK: Right
FS: And the man at the Mildenhall register didn’t know anything about it and I told him what it was for and he said, well, nobody else has got one
DK: Ah, right. Can I just ask, to start with, what were you doing immediately before the war?
FS: Sorry?
DK: What were you doing immediately before the war?
FS: I’ll start from the beginning.
DK: Yes, sure, please, yes
FS: When I left school, I left school in August 1939 and I had various jobs before I got a job as a garden assistant at [unclear] and while I was there the local ATC started on the 14th of May 1941 I joined the local squadron 1406 [unclear] Holbeach when it was formed I was interested in going into the Air Force and so I volunteered to join the RAF in 1942 and I went and had a medical and passed the medical and they said they would call me when they needed me and so I had to wait until I think it was about November 1943 when they said, we’ll call you up on and sent me a date of the 12th of January 1944 and so I joined the RAF and I went down to ACRC in London and did all the kitting and all the main and drilling and that sort of thing but because I was a local boy and I didn’t go to grammar school, my education wasn’t quite the standard that was required, so they sent me on a training course at Liverpool to 19, number 19 PACT it was called, Pre Air Crew Training Course where we spent six months in the Liverpool College of Commerce and at Liverpool [unclear] Street Technical College and together with the training, initial training, drilling and all that sort of thing, that lasted six months. After six months we went back down to St John’s Wood where we was reassessed, well, I was down to pilot, navigator, bomb aimer but they, the actual medical side to do with the pilot side of it was that my legs weren’t long enough. So, because, they said my legs weren’t long enough and they didn’t want any navigators and they got no call for bomb aimers, would I take a second job and as and because I had a very good aptitude I was selected to become an air gunner but they didn’t want any air gunners, so they sent us on a course, training course down at Babbacombe, Paignton and Torquay and after we’ve been down there for three months they said, well, they couldn’t really feed, they couldn’t really afford to feed us, they needed people in other jobs, would we take another job? So, we said, yeah, well, what are they? And they said, well, you can go clerk GD, general duties or you can become a transport driver because we are short of vehicle drivers so I said, I wanna go for that one , cause I thought, I might as well ride the [unclear] [laughs]. Anyway we went on the course down at Melksham in Wiltshire and it lasted eight weeks and in eight weeks’ time, you had to learn to drive all the vehicles that the RAF had and my last job was to drive the Queen Mary which was sixty some odd foot long. I left there and was posted to Peplow in Shropshire where we used to start the tractors for the WAAFs in the morning cause Peplow at that time was training glider pilots for Arnhem and D-Day and because we were doing this course, we stayed with them until that course ended and when it ended they transferred me down to Methwold in Norfolk and that was on Bomber Command where 149 and 622 Squadron were based and it was while I was there, I had the job of forklift driver in the bomb dump and we used to load the bombs onto the trolleys and we used to load the trolleys in a train to take round to the aircraft to bomb up and a Lancaster bomber squadron [unclear] when it comes to feeding them [unclear] about twenty two bombs of some kind or canisters of some kind or one big bomb which was one odd thing but anyway we were doing that and one day we had a senior officer coming down to the squadron and a fortnight later we had this thing come through that we, apparently we’re going to send food to people who were starving in Holland called Operation Manna and it was on that job that I did actually did load and did suggest some ways of the stuff landing on the ground because you wrap a sack of flour in its own right, you drop a sack of flour and it hits the ground, it bursts, it throws it out [unclear] fan shape and it’s no more good to anybody so that was decided how was we going to drop it and so we had this talk about it and we said, well, if you put that bag in a bigger bag, a clothing woven one, the bigger bag would catch the contents and so we put this ordinary sack of flour, a standard sack of flour, it’s about sixteen stone I think or fourteen stone into a railway sack as we call them which were big and used to carry corn on the railway and stick them up and that and we dropped, at the second drop we did with that it did burst open but the contents inside was all in, you know, thrown about and they found that it would be difficult to salvage all the contents without losing all [unclear] in the fabric material so we said, what else can we do? So, I said, well, the best thing I can think of is if you get that bag of flour in a railway sack which is about twice its size and then you put it in the bigger one which is bigger still which the farmers locally called [unclear] bags because [unclear] from the local factory was sent out to the farms in these huge sacks so if you put it in that one and you stitch it up in that one and you roll it up in that one when it came down the weight of the flour at the front would cause the thing to open up and the back end would flap and because it’s flapping, it retarded the fall and we tried that and it worked.
DK: It worked.
FS: Yeah.
DK: And these were being dropped out the Lancasters, were they?
FS: Pardon?
DK: They were being dropped out of Lancasters.
FS: Lancasters, Stirlings as well.
DK: Stirlings as well.
FS: Yeah
DK: Right.
FS: But they dropped them out the Lancasters and then the other thing was they always [unclear] get them in the Lancaster so someone came up on this big thing, I don’t know who made them but they came to us in a lorry load and they called them panniers
DK: Yeah
FS: A pannier would fix into the bomb bay, either side, yeah, and then you could shut the doors and that was all enclosed and so that was decided on, so we did two drops for panniers and that was quite successful. What I wouldn’t say is to drop things at two hundred and plus miles an hour you don’t get the results you think you gonna get, because a large can of corned beef dropped at two hundred miles an hour on the airfield [unclear], it would go in the ground as a big can of corned beef and go down about two foot in the ground because it was [unclear], it would come up on top and when it come on [unclear], it was fat as your book. Absolutely but it [unclear] burst the can
DK: Alright.
FS: No, so they decided it wouldn’t matter which way it dropped, it would still be usable.
DK: The contents were still ok?
FS: Yes, inside, yes. And that what I had and then when I came out the RAF, I mean, finished me course as an air gunner, I mean, done the jobs at Methwold and at the [unclear] base, I went to, went to the, finalized me course and I finished up as an air gunner on Sunderland flying boats.
DK: Alright.
FS: Yeah. So that’s my life story.
DK: Do you know which squadron you were with, with the Sunderlands?
FS: Pardon?
DK: Do you know which squadron it was with the Sunderlands?
FS: Scotland?
DK: The Sunderlands.
FS: Yes
DK: At which squadron?
FS: I wasn’t with the squadron.
DK: Ah, right, ok.
FS: I was with a ferry unit
DK: Ferry unit, right, ok.
FS: Yeah. I was, I went to, squadron, [unclear] RAF [unclear] in Scotland
DK: Right
FS: Or [unclear] if you like and we were based on a distillery
DK: Oh right [laughs]
FS: Yes. Very nice,
DK: Very nice
FS: Anyway, I did, I joined the course a crew and there was ten of us in a crew and we did [unclear] because by that time the war had finished and
DK: The war had ended, right. So you
FS: There was still [unclear] submarines still out there even then but we used to do patrol out over the Atlantic at places like Rockpool, I went to Iceland, went to [unclear] in the Shetlands, places like that, while I was there and then when we came back we were going to go to Singapore and the crew had slept in our billet with us two days before they took off and went and we were due to go the next day down to [unclear] to get equipped for the temperature, you know, shorts and all that sort of thing and we were going off in to Singapore but the crew that went down the day before were taking off and we were taking off at about quarter past two in the morning and the crew that went down the day before they took off and on the takeoff they lost an engine and they were fully loaded and you got two thousand four hundred and forty eight gallons of fuel on board and they lost an engine and so they told them to climb up as well as they could and on the way up they lost another engine and they got up to about four to five thousand feet and they told him to jettison this fuel and turn in a certain direction but unfortunately the people who were telling them about what to do didn’t realize that there was a two way wind, at the height that they were the wind was blowing in one direction and at a lower level it was blowing in the other direction and so what happened? They told them they had to turn and when they turned they came back in and they came back in to the vapor cloud and it blew up in mid-air completely, nothing left of it, yeah and so our trip, we were going down the [unclear] and we were on the fly path taking off when it was withdrawn.
DK: Alright.
FS: And it was withdrawn,
US: [unclear] thirsty.
FS: And it was
DK: I can stop there for a minute. Yep, there we go,
FS: Anyway, we got our, our trip was aborted and on the station for just over two weeks and they came up with to report they caught us that morning and I went along and they said, now, you aren’t going to Singapore, he said, because you have knowledge of agriculture, of food growing, that job is more important than you becoming an air gunner on a course in Singapore so he said, because it’s paying so much money to America for the food we need to grow our own where we can, so you can go back into agriculture to provide food so they sent me as on class B2 as a reserve and I stayed on that until it was abandoned and I came back home and the family had moved from where we used to live to Sutton St James, father had got us from [unclear] at Sutton St James and so at that point I got a job working for my father on his four acre holding and that was my life.
DK: You had a story about a V1. Yeah, there was a story about a V1?
FS: Oh yeah
DK: Yeah, so could you tell us that story?
FS: When I was back in August having finished a course at Liverpool, we were stationed or billeted in Viceroy Court which is just off the edge of Regent’s Park, very [unclear] block of flats but we did only use the bottom two floors to sleep and it was [unclear] of us in one room with an opening of eighteen inches by nine as the only means of air in the room, there were no doors on, all the doors had been taken out and we’d been having our usual daily exercises in the park, Regent’s Park across the way and we came back in from there and get to change back from PT gear into ordinary dress and we did that on the top floor and cause at that time the air raid warning went all clear at eight o’clock in the morning and at one minute past it went warning again and the doodlebugs started coming over after eight o’clock and we were there getting changed from PT gear into ordinary dress and we heard one coming so we went down on the balcony outside and funnily enough after a few seconds its engine stopped and we knew that when the engine stopped it was about to come down somewhere and there it was, coming through the clouds, straight through our block of flats.
DK: Did you actually see it, coming down?
FS: Oh yeah
DK: Yes, yes
FS: Coming straight for us, ah, well, we all went mad, we, I got down two flights of stairs in the toilet, there’s no doors on the toilet and it was no water in the toilet but I got flat on me chest in the toilet and got one he had covered up but I didn’t get me right here covered and then it went off and then I really funny things cause you got two thousand pounds of TNT going off, makes quite a bang and that was that, anyway we finally got down and they went, now what happened and so apparently this doodlebug coming down instead of coming directly at us as it was, it turned and it ran into the Canal Bank, where the Grand Union Canal is at that point and it ran into the bank outside [unclear] which he lived and it exploded but all the blast went upwards into the air and so the damage to our block of flats wasn’t all that bad, you could put your arms through the wall and shake with the people in the next room but that was apparently because it was a single frame building and it’s only the solid part
DK: [unclear], yeah
FS: That was fractured, yeah and then they sent us down, they sent us up the road to check on the people because mainly all the people in those flats were either relatives of or families of people, forces people working in London
DK: Right, ok.
FS: And so they sent us down to the one that was nearest to where the thing fell and to go and have a look at it was unusual really because we went inside and there was, we met a man in the hall way and he said where did they go? And I said, where did who go? He said, them gang, that gang of blokes, I said, what gang of blokes? He said, well, they come in here and then they [unclear] a big bang, he said, it was, he said, and somebody’s been pinched our wardrobe, I said, what? He said, somebody’s pinched our wardrobe, I said, no, I don’t think so, anyway we arrived, he took us up to where it was and he said, it stood there, against the wall and it’s not here anymore, that gang of blokes took it, I said, I didn’t see any gang of blokes, anyway he was quite, quite confused, quite think about it when a knock came on the door and a woman from two, not the next flat to his but the next flat, she came and she said, I don’t want that! I said, you don’t want what? She said, I don’t want that wardrobe in my house, it’s not my kind of furniture and I said what wardrobe? She said, well, them blokes came and they put a wardrobe against my wall. So, what he meant was the [unclear] of the building must have opened up and the wardrobe went through two rooms and rested against the wall.
DK: Yeah, so it crashed down.
FS: Yeah
DK: So, no men never actually stole it then?
FS: Pardon?
DK: No men actually stole it.
FS: There wasn’t anybody there.
DK: No, it’d gone through the
FS: It’d gone through
DK: Floors. Yeah, strange.
FS: Yeah. So, the whole of the building must have opened up and shut up again. Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Strange.
FS: Yeah.
DK: And can I just confirm, whereabouts in London was this?
FS: It’s on the edge of Regent’s Park
DK: On the edge of Regent’s Park, ok.
FS: I’m not sure what road, not sure what road is in. If I got a map
DK: That’s ok, in Regent’s Park it’s ok. Know roughly where it was
FS: Pardon?
DK: That’s ok, Regent’s Park, I know where that is.
FS: Yeah, I can show you exactly where it is. I got a map of London.
DK: Yeah. That’s ok. I got an idea in my head where the canal is.
FS: Yeah
DK: Yeah. Can I just ask, just going back to your time working in the bomb dumps
FS: Yeah
DK: Did you used to actually load the bombs into the aircraft?
FS: I only loaded them onto the trolley.
DK: Onto the trolleys.
FS: But I loaded out to load the food into the aircraft.
DK: The food into the aircraft
FS: Yeah
DK: So, you had a tractor then, was it?
FS: A forklift
DK: Forklift, and you loaded them down
FS: It was electric
DK: Right
FS: Forklift
DK: Yeah
FS: Didn’t have an engine, is an electric one
DK: Right
FS: He used to plug it in, charge it up overnight if you weren’t using it or when between times, when you got so long between before you load in more stuff
DK: And then, the trollies then went out to the aircraft
FS: As a bomb train, we called it,
DK: Bomb train, yeah
FS: Yeah, cause one lady took my bomb train one night and she had a John Brown, a, yeah John
DK: A tractor, a John Brown tractor
FS: Yeah, she had a John Brown tractor and they were quite big things, quite powerful and they were quite fast if they wanted and she decided to take my bomb train in a hurry and she overturned it and she overturned it on the runway and the bombs came off the trolleys
DK: Right
FS: And then there was a big discussion as to what they were going to do with them and they said, well, the only thing you can do with them is go drop them in the sea and the disposal ground
DK: Right. So, they couldn’t be reused again.
FS: There’s delayed action
DK: Right, ok.
FS: Delayed action bombs and because they had fell off the trolleys, they started the action working, which cut the time down as to about three to four hours
DK: So you had three to four hours to dispose of them.
FS: Yeah
DK: Yeah
FS: Anyway, they had to call the crews out of bed, they were gonna take them on a trip the next day and load them all up on the aircraft which I did several of them on the aircraft and they flew them off to the dropping zone in the North Sea, it’s just off Dogger Bank somewhere and as the aircraft came back and landed, you could hear the bombs who went off in land and there a thousand pound bombs and they’re quite [unclear] yeah
DK: So, were quite a few of the tractor drivers women then?
FS: Pardon?
DK: Were quite a few of the tractor drivers women?
FS: OH, Quite a lot of them were
DK: Yeah
FS: Quite a lot of them
DK: She wasn’t hurt then, was she, when she rolled it?
FS: Pardon?
DK: Was she hurt when they rolled it? Was she hurt?
FS: She had trapped [unclear] it turned over.
DK: Just the bomb trolley?
FS: Just the bomb trolley.
DK: Right, ok. She was ok then?
FS: Started from the back and the [unclear] went up, yeah.
DK: So she was ok.
FS: Pardon? She was ok
DK: She was ok.
FS: She was ok.
DK: Can you recall what types of bombs you used to pick up?
FS: Pardon?
DK: Can you recall which types of bombs, the types of bombs that you, you picked up with the trolley?
FS: Types?
DK: Types, yeah.
FS: Well, you see, the means of dropping bombs is [unclear] for years and the types of bombs we were dropping were thousand pounders, the American one was the [unclear] on with the top, keep some of them cause they were known to explode and they contained Torpex which is the same stuff as they put in torpedoes and it makes a big bang and it does a lot of damage, we load probably twenty two, twenty one or twenty two of them on an aircraft and that was allowed, they used to take a thousand pound bombs
DK: So, it’s about twenty-one, twenty-two thousand pound bombs
FS: Yeah
DK: Yeah. And were there any bigger bombs you
FS: Bigger ones? Oh, we had four thousand pounders which were [unclear] three section, two section canister at the front end is like a big barrel and the back end was empty and it was nose and tail fuse and three fuses in the nose and three in the tail which unwound when they left the aircraft the safety pin pulled out the fusing thing unwound and fell away and that let the fuse ignite and go to the front and when it hit the ground it went off [unclear] you had the two section one with the tail and you had the three section one
DK: So, they would have been eight thousand pounds and twelve thousand pounds
FS: That’s right, yeah
DK: Right, yeah
FS: And they had these special ones which had dropped on the submarine pens at Brest, but we never handled them, they were done by a couple of chaps with a huge forklift thing that could carry them cause we couldn’t carry them, they were too heavy for us
DK: And were many of the loads incendiary bombs as well?
FS: Incendiary?
DK: Yeah
FS: OH, yeah, yeah [laughs]. You wouldn’t believe it, seven thousand or eight, would ye? The [unclear] the ordinary stick incendiary bombs, there was ninety of those in a canister
DK: Right
FS: They came to us in boxes, right, and we had a canister carrier which took four of those
DK: Right, so that’s four times ninety
FS: Four times ninety
DK: Right
FS: And you only did with those, got a crowbar very carefully took the lid off the box and then you put the fuse in back over and you did all that with them upright and then they took them out [unclear] over come in the aircraft, you could have twenty of those or twenty four, twenty one of those at a time, we reckoned about seven thousand at that time of Dresden and Cologne where we sent a lot of fire bombs and the next after they come up with a load of high explosive and so on and that turned the course of that two weeks we unloaded or offloaded a T3 hangar which is about probably four hundred foot long or twenty seven line, we emptied it in a fortnight
DK: All full of incendiaries?
FS: All incendiaries. Yeah. And the bigger canisters of incendiaries was worked a different way, they were shaped like a bomb and had a copper nose to them and the copper nose had four nozzles facing outwards and when it hit the ground, it exploded but it didn’t explode and blow itself to pieces, but it started off as a fire from these nozzles, sort of high pressured gas burning and they would drop on the ground unless they lay flat on the ground they would turn themselves upright and set fire to everything around them but this was like [unclear] settling well flame sort of thing and there were some which [unclear] and they did quite [unclear] canisters and fused them up yeah.
DK: So, how long would it take to load up a whole squadron of aircraft?
FS: Pardon?
DK: How long would it take
FS: About a day
DK: About a day.
FS: Yeah
DK: So, you’d be out there early morning right through the day
FS: After [unclear]
DK: Yeah [unclear], they took off
FS: Yeah
DK: Yeah
FS: Yeah.
DK: So, it’s a day’s work to load up a whole squadron.
FS: Pardon?
DK: A day’s work to load up a whole squadron.
FS: It [unclear] just a day, you do it again tomorrow
DK: Yeah
FS: Every day the same.
DK: Yeah, yeah.
FS: I think in some cases I only had about three hours sleep at night, probably only about three hours sleep at night.
DK: So, I think that’s very interesting information there, thanks very much for your time. I was just going to ask, what do you think now about your time in the RAF?
FS: What do I think about it?
DK: What do you think about it now.
FS: I wish I’d stayed there. I wish I’d stayed there actually, but I didn’t have that choice more or less, I always say they thought that my job as food production was better serving the country than my career in the RAF was
DK: Yeah. So, you had no choice, you had to come out
FS: I had to, yeah, yeah, I had to come out because I had knowledge of food production, that was the answer
DK: Very, food is very important though, food is very important
FS: Oh yeah, well, when you work out how much they were paying for a boat load of food for America, you can understand why they wanted to stop him [unclear] it and reround it when they could and as I say, I think they most probably, most probably it was a good thing for the country and they wouldn’t be feeding me, would they? I was feeding them.
DK: OK then, I will stop there but thanks very much for that, that’s more or less, that’s, thanks very much for your time. I’ll stop there.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Frank Saunston
Creator
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David Kavanagh
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-05-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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ASaunstonFR170522, PSaunstonFR1701
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Pending review
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00:40:17 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Saunston joined the ATC in 1941 and then the RAF in 1942. He worked as a transport driver at RAF Peplow and then as a forklift driver at RAF Methwold on the bomb dump. Describes his role and his duties and gives details regarding the bombs used. He took part in Operation Manna and tells of how the food was packed and dropped over Holland. Finished up as an air gunner on Sunderland flying boats. Witnessed a V1 dropping on the block of flats where he was stationed near Regent’s Park in London and gives a detailed account of the event. Remembers an aircraft accident when he was posted to Scotland. Tells of how he wanted to stay longer in the RAF but was told to go back to work in food production, where his knowledge of agriculture would have been more useful.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Netherlands
England--Norfolk
England--Shropshire
Temporal Coverage
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1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
149 Squadron
622 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing up
ground personnel
incendiary device
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Methwold
RAF Peplow
service vehicle
Sunderland
tractor
training
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1254/36048/PBakerWB16040008.2.jpg
8ed61e853f69b1f90eb7cf8dc316bbe4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Baker, William Benjamin
Biff Baker
W B Baker
Description
An account of the resource
45 items. The collection concerns William Benjamin "Biff" Baker DFC (Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents art work and and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 115 and 626 Squadrons.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Pamela Baker and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Peter Adams.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-11-28
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Baker, WB
Dublin Core
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Title
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Aircraft
Description
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Top - painting of a Lancaster being bombed up. Captioned 'Winter of 43 somewhere in England. by David Shepherd'.
Bottom - photograph - view from above of a Lancaster with Spitfire and Hurricane on either wing over sea. Captioned 'Memorial in Flight, from original photograph by Arthur Gibson'.
Creator
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David Shepherd
Arthur Gibson
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Type
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Artwork
Photograph
Format
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One colour painting and one colour photograph mounted on an album page
Identifier
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PBakerWB16040008
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
aircrew
arts and crafts
bomb trolley
bombing up
dispersal
ground crew
Hurricane
Lancaster
petrol bowser
service vehicle
Spitfire
tractor
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/106/1011/BBriggsDWNealeWv1.1.pdf
517c696d7b7ef0bf110c35395391be88
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Briggs, Donald
Donald W Briggs
D W Briggs
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Date
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2017-03-27
Identifier
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Briggs, DW
Description
An account of the resource
21 items. The collection consists of one oral history interview with flight engineer Donald Ward Briggs (1924 - 2018), his logbook, memoirs and 16 wartime and post war photographs. He completed 62 operations with 156 Squadron Pathfinders flying from RAF Upwood. Post war, Donald Briggs retrained as a pilot flying Meteors and Canberras. He eventually joined the V-Force on Valiants and was the co-pilot for the third British hydrogen bomb test at Malden Island in 1957.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Donald Briggs and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[underlined]Tribute to a Pathfinder Captain [/underlined]
Squadron Leader William G. Neale DSO DFC Croix de Guerre
1912-2001
It was April 1944, and I had just completed the Flight Engineer training course at R.A.F. St Athan S. Wales. Shortly after arriving at R.A.F. Lindholme near Doncaster to commence training on the Halifax bomber, about twenty or so of us new Flt Engineers attended a “crewing up parade”. The crews were lined up in sixes awaiting the additional member to make a full crew of seven. The pilot in each crew broke away and approached our group. I was asked for by name and stepped forward to meet Flying Officer Bill Neal. He know from my training records that I had some limited flying experience through accompanying pilots on air tests following engine changes etc. Bill explained that his crew had all completed one tour of ops and they had been selected to go to a Pathfinder Squadron directly after four engine bomber conversion. He explained what it all meant and what the duties of a Pathfinder crew would be. Bill asked me if I would like to join his crew and I accepted without hesitation. And so it was that fate decided that I should sit alongside this outstanding pilot for the next twelve months!! All the crew were commissioned officers but Bill promised that he would do his utmost [?] to get me commissioned after completing a tour of ops. That evening I received my “initiation” into the crew at one of the local “watering holes”!! I was not allowed to buy any beer!!
As our training on Halifaxes proceeded I quickly realized my extremely good fortune in becoming part of this very experienced bomber crew. In fact on our first night navigation exercise, an engine suffered a burst coolant header tank, quickly overheated and had to be to[sic] shut down and the propeller feathered. Bill calmly and skilfully carried out his first night landing on three engines! Of course he must have done numerous single engine landings as a flying instructor on Wellingtons.
[underlined]William G. Neal (Bill to all the crew) First impressions [/underlined]
I was approaching my twentieth birthday and Bill was almost twelve years my senior. His mature friendly nature and jovial personality transmitted a feeling of well being in all who came into contact with him. I personally regarded Bill as my mentor and felt that he was the one who would get us safely through the war.
His leadership qualities were of the highest calibre, namely: great courage, example, coolness under fire, tenacity, professionalism, and the ability to maintain high morale in his crew. Above all, Bill was a superb pilot!! We were all encouraged to stay fit and healthy and our skipper set a good example by playing squash regularly!
[underlined] Operations and Training [/underlined]
[page break]
Having completed training on the Halifax, the next stage was our introduction to the magnificent Lancaster. This was accomplished at the Lancaster Finishing School RAF Hemswell nr. Lincoln. It was only a short familiarisation course, both day and night flying, and Bill was immediately “at home” with this superb aircraft! So now we were all set to join The Pathfinder Force and proceeded to the PFF Navigation Training Unit at RAF Warboys nr. St. Ives Cambs. (only five miles from RAF Upwood). It was a very short course lasting only four days. We flew a training sortie each day consisting of navigation and practice bombing. During this course I was taught how to use the bombsight, how to give corrections to our pilot, and after practice in a synthetic trainer, dropped smoke/flash bombs on a nearby bombing range. The reason for the flight engineer having to become the visual bomb aimer in a Pathfinder crew, was due to the normal bomb aimer or observer being fully pre-occupied on his radar (H2s). He would probably have to mark the target indicators (Ti’s) if the “Master Bomber” called for them.
On the 25th May 1944 we arrived at Royal Air Force Upwood to join No. 156 (PFF) Squadron.
[underlined] Our First Crew on PFF [/underlined]
[underlined] Flying Officer W.G. (Bill) Neal [/underlined]PILOT and CAPTAIN (one tour of ops on Wellingtons and recent flying instructor at RAF Harwell, Oxon)
Sergeant D.W. (Don) Briggs FLIGHT ENGINEER (ex NCO aero engine fitter)
Pilot Officer Alan Lewis NAVIGATOR (one previous tour of ops)
Flying Officer George Hodges 2nd NAVIGATOR and H2S RADAR OPERATOR (one previous tour of ops on Wellingtons)
Flying Officer John Carrad WIRELESS OPERATOR (one previous tour of ops on Wellingtons)
Flying Officer “Jock” McViele [?] MID UPPER GUNNER (one previous tour of ops)
Flying Officer “Paddy” Kirk REAR GUNNER (one previous tour of ops)
The settling in period for the crew before commencing operations, was about two weeks of intensive training flights. These involved mostly radar navigation, practice bombing, fighter evasion which gave Bill some “corkscrewing” practice (we had a Spitfire making simulated fighter attacks from astern). Needless to say the gunners had their guns safe!! They were able to get live firing practice later on a sleeve being towed by special aircraft – even I had a go after being shown how to operate the guns in the front turret!!
During our training on the Halifax at Lindholme, Bill had very kindly given me an introductory flying lesson (I had never handled an aircraft in flight before!) After taking my place in the pilot’s seat, he showed me how to maintain the correct nose altitude for level flight and how to use the roll control to level the wings also make gentle turns. Once we were established on the Squadron we had a training commitment in navigation and bombing to fulfil. This was necessary in order to “hone” our skills and maintain the very high standards demanded of PATHFINDER crews. During most of these flights Bill and I would change places and under his close supervision, I would take control of the big Lancaster – what a fantastic feeling! By
[page break]
giving me plenty of handling practice, Bill, being a very responsible captain was ensuring that someone was capable of flying the aircraft in emergency. Thus I can take pride in saying that my first flying lessons were given by the excellent Bill Neal!! It’s worth noting that no Lancaster on the squadron was equipped with dual controls, which is why it was necessary for the pilot to vacate his seat to allow me to fly the aircraft.
We were now declared “fully operational” and on 11th July 1944 Bill called us together and said “we’re on the Battle Order for tonight chaps”! We lost no time in getting our flying kit on, then carry out a thorough check of our aircraft that we would be flying on the raid and by a short air test. The aircraft would then be prepared for the operational sortie by our ground crew (they were a dedicated band of men and took great pride in their own Lancaster). The fuel load was usually maximum. Then last of all would come the bomb load on special trolleys quite often towed by a W.A.A.F. The bombing up team would then winch the bombs/flares/Target Indicators into the bomb bay.
After a few hours rest in the afternoon it was time to attend a mass briefing. The target for our Op No. 1 was to be the marshalling yard at TOURS in Southern France. With all the flight planning completed we sat down to a good pre flight meal then made our way to the locker room. The air gunners had to wear plenty of warm clothing, as the outside air temperature at twenty thousand feet could be -10oC[?] and very little heat from the aircraft system reached the turrets. Both gunners were issued with electrically heated thermal suits and gauntlets. The rest of the crew wore thick rollneck pullovers under the battledress jacket and of course everyone wore fleece lined suede flying boots. Each crew member had his own parachute harness and chest[?] type parachutes were issued separately. We then boarded coaches and were dropped off at our own aircraft. The ground crew were already at the aircraft and the Form 700 (servicing record) was presented to Bill for signature. After the obligatory external inspection including an inspection of the bomb load and removal of safety pins, each crew member took up his position in the aircraft. It was my job to start all the engines when our skipper gave the order, and we had a precise time to start taxying. To see twenty or so Lancasters in a stream round the perimeter track was a thrilling sight!! There was always a crowd of station personnel by the side of the runway to see us off (lots of W.A.A.F.’s!!) It was vital that each bomber took off precisely on its allocated time. When it was our turn, Bill entered the runway lining up the heavily loaded Lancaster as close to the end as he could. At the end of the navigator’s countdown, Bill used to say “OK chaps as the earwig said – EARWIGO”!! as he advanced the throttles to full power accelerating down the runway for a perfect take off. Ask my ex Lancaster crew member and he will tell you what a wonderful sound those four Merlins made at full power!! I suspect the “earwig” saying was not only routine but superstition also, but it was part of every operational take off for our crew.
Once we had set course and were climbing to operational height the “butterflies” disappeared as we all had plenty to do. The flight engineer’s log had to be completed every half hour, recording all engine gauge readings and that fuel usage was according to plan. It was vital not to show any light in the cockpit. Bill’s flight instruments were dimly lit by u/v lights directed on to the luminous dials, and I had to use a torch with a very small hole in the blacked out glass when filling in my log.
[page break]
Both navigators worked under black out curtains. We had a very strict microphone discipline in a bomber crew. If a mic. Was left ON after saying something there was a hissing noise caused by oxygen flowing into the mask[?]. It was essential to keep the intercom quiet in case the gunners reported a night fighter and called “corkscrew (port or starboard) GO”. Our skipper Bill was a strong chap and could certainly throw a Lancaster around!! On my very first op with the crew I had my “baptism” in the form of two fighter attacks. Paddy our rear gunner saw the fighter before he could get in close and during the violent corkscrewing the four brownings in the rear turret made a noisy “clatter”. This was exciting stuff for the new crew member!!! In both attacks the fighter’s shots went wide and he broke away.
On this sortie and several more night ops to follow we were part of the “illuminating force”. This meant that we were one of the first to arrive at the target and would drop a stick of very bright parachute flares to enable the Master Bomber to visually identify the aiming point. He would be either a Lancaster or a Mosquito at a low altitude and would then drop cascading target indicators (mixed reds and greens). Further pathfinder aircraft were required to “back up” the marking by dropping more TI’s. Later in our tour we took on this role. Although anti aircraft fire (flak) on our first series of French targets was not intense, German targets were very heavily defended. Our first German target was Hamburg (op no. 13!!) and as we prepared for our bombing run the barrage of flak looked terrifying. Just as I was having doubts whether we could get through it, Bill said “don’t worry it always looks worse than it really is and the puffs of flak you see are the ones that can’t do any harm”. I felt slightly better!! The flak guns were radar predicted and the Germans had developed accurate height finding equipment. To make their job more difficult we used to fly a “weaving” course initially until the actual bombing run when the aircraft had to be held steady apart from small left and right corrections from bomb aimer to pilot. This is when we were most vulnerable to predicted flak and being "coned" by searchlights. Even after bomb release we still had to maintain heading until over the target and the photograph taken. This was a great relief to all the crew as it meant that Bill would usually dive for a few hundred feet then climb again and so on, until well clear of the target area. Our route away from the target was always planted to keep us clear of heavily defended areas, however, the threat from night fighters was ever present. Some ME110 fighters were fitted with upward firing canon. The pilot would fly formation below the bomber (in a blind spot to the gunners) and fire upwards with devastating results. In our Lancasters at the bomb aimer’s position there was a rearward facing perspex scoop through which we used to drop bundles of “window” (each containing millions of thin strips of silver foil to fog the enemy radar screens). I used to spend as much time as possible with my head down looking through this perspex in case a fighter was underneath.
One of the most sickening and demoralising sights was to witness a bomber aircraft being shot down. The bomber would be spinning down in a mass of flames and when it impacted (possibly with a full bomb load) there would be a massive explosion and fireball. Our navigator would make a note of the time and position, then we tried to put it out of our minds. Throughout our operational tours this experience was to be repeated many many times. We felt great sadness at the loss of our comrades, but thankful that we were spared.
It was a relief to be back over friendly territory on the way home and once we were
[page break]
crossing the North Sea the gunners could relax slightly. The aerodrome lights of Upwood were a most welcome sight and the controller had his work cut out fitting all the returning Lancasters into the circuit. Bill invariably brought our machine in for a well judged landing, tired though he must have been! Our ground crew were there on the dispersal to greet us climbing out of our trusty Lancaster and were always keen to know which target we had bombed. WAAFs with mugs of hot coffee laced with rum and the Padre having a chat as he handed out American cigarettes!! Then followed a debriefing by the intelligence officer and other specialists. Many times I remember walking back to the Mess for breakfast as dawn was breaking!
Some ops were very long flights (see record of operations following) and one might well ask “how did you stay awake and fully alert the whole time”? Well we had the option of taking “wakey wakey” pills as we used to call them. They were actually Benzodrine tablets (a stimulant) and most of us took them.
The remainder of our operation followed the general pattern previously described, however, we flew many daylight ops particularly in support of our ground forces on the Normandy Battle Front. We also attacked flying bomb sites in the Pas de Calais area using a special method. Six Lancasters flew close formation on a Mosquito equipped with “Oboe” (an extremely accurate blind bombing device). At the same split second the bomb left the Mosquito every Lancaster released its full load of bombs. Thus the V1(buzz bomb) site was totally obliterated possibly saving the lives of many Londoners. Ops 2, 3 and 4 were carried out on successive nights but were all fairly short trips to targets in France. On 14th October 1944 we flew a daylight raid on Duisburg in the morning, and with hardly any rest, attacked the same target that night! The target was an armaments factory in the Rhur and was heavily defended.
After completing my first tour (40 ops) having already had my commissioning interviews, sure enough exactly as Bill had promised, my commission came through. I was now able to join Bill and the rest of the crew in the Officers Mess.
At this Bill had completed[underlined] two tours [/underlined] of ops and decided to keep going as did Johnie Carrod, George Hodges, and of course myself (I wanted to complete two tours also). However, Alan Lewis (nav), Paddy Kirk and Jock McVitie (the two gunners) decided to “call it a day”. Thus our crew became:-
Flight Lieutenant (later Sqn. Ldr.) Bill Neal DFC Captain
Pilot Officer Don Briggs Flight Engineer
Flight Lieutenant George Hodges DFC H2S Radar Operator
Sergeant …..? Archer RCAF Navigator
Flight Lieutenant John Carrod DFC Wireless Operator
Flight Sergeant (later Warrant Officer) …..? Patterson (Mid Upper Gunner)
Flight Sergeant Eric Chamberlain Rear Gunner
And so we pressed on! From then on every op except one was a German target. We flew some very long trips (two of them were over [underlined] (eight hours)[underlined] Our longest flight was to Stettin
[page break]
On the Baltic coast – almost to Russia – eight and a half hours! That was stretching a Lancaster endurance to its limits I seem to remember.
We bombed Chemnitz and Dessau in Eastern Germany and of course on 13th Feb.1945, we were sent to Dresden. The firestorm was an awesome sight.
On the 24th March 1945 I flew my last operational sortie with Bill – it was a daylight raid on a Rhur target!
No words can do justice to the piloting skill, leadership, and fearless tenacity, coupled with the ability to maintain high morale, of our Captain, Comrade in Battle, and good friend, William G. Neal – Bill to all of us in his Lancaster bomber crew.
It was an honour to be part of his team, and I shall be eternally thankful that he got me through the most dangerous era of my life. Sadly, Bill Neal died on the 22nd November 2001. I shall miss him enormously.
[underlined] RECORD OF OPERATIONS [/underlined]
OPS 1 11th June 1944 Lanc III “J” (NE120) TOURS (M/Yards) 5hrs 55min.
OPS 2 15th June “ Lanc III “B” LENS 2hrs 20min.
OPS 3 16th June “ Lanc III “A” RENESCURE 2hrs 05min.
OPS 4 17th June “ Lanc III “H” MONTDIDIER 3hrs 30min.
OPS 5 24th June “ Lanc III “K” MIDDEL STRAETE 2hrs 15min.
OPS 6 27th June “ Lanc III “J” OISEMONT 2hrs 30 min.
OPS 7 2nd July “ Lanc III “J” OISEMONT 2hrs 50min.
OPS 8 7th July “ Lanc III “J” VAIRES (M/Yards nr PARIS) 4hrs 25min.
OPS 9 10th July “ Lanc III “J” NUCOURT 3hrs 00
OPS 10 12th July “ Lanc III “J” TOURS 5hrs 05min.
OPS 11 14th July “ Lanc III “J” PHILIBERT 3hrs 05
OPS 12 18th July “ Lanc III “J” CAGNY (Battle Front)
Wg.Cdr.Bingham-Hall Sqn. 2hrs. 50
OPS 13 28th July “ Lanc III “F” HAMBURG 4hrs 55
OPS 14 30th July “ Lanc III “K” BATTLE FRONT (Low level) 3hrd 05
OPS 15 3rd Aug. “ Lanc III “J” BOIS De CASSAN 3HRS 35
OPS 16 5th Aug. “ Lanc III “F” FORET De NIEPPE 2hrs 05
OPS 17 7th Aug. “ Lanc III “J” BATTLE FRONT A/P 5 2hrs 45
OPS 18 9th Aug. “ Lanc III “F” FORT D’ENGLOS 2hrs 20
OPS 19 12th Aug. “ Lanc III “D” RUSSELSHEIM (nr FRANKFURT) 4hrs 20
OPS 20 15th Aug. “ Lanc III “J” EINDHOVEN Airfield (Holland) 2 hrs 55
OPS 21 16th Aug. “ Lanc III “H” KIEL 5hrs 25
OPS 22 18th Aug. “ Lanc III “E” CONNANTRE (M/Yards) 5hrs 20
OPS 23 25th Aug. “ Lanc III “J” RUSSELSHEIM 7hrs 20
OPS 24 29th Aug. “ Lanc III “J” STETTIN (Our longest flight) 8hrs 30
OPS 25 31st Aug. “ Lanc III “D” LUMBRES 2hrs 35
OPS 26 15th Sept. “ Lanc III “J” KIEL 5hrs 05
[page break]
OPS 27 16th Sept. “ Lanc III “J” MOERDUK Bridges (Holland) 2hrs 55
OPS 28 20th Sept. “ Lanc III “J” CALAIS Area A/P 6B 2hrs 10
OPS 29 23rd Sept. “ Lanc III “J” NEUSS (DUSSELDORF) 3hrs 30
OPS 30 25th Sept. “ Lanc III ”A” CALAIS Area A/P IC 2hr 55
OPS 31 26th Sept. “ Lanc III ”A” CAP GRIS NEZ (CALAIS) 2hrs 30
OPS 32 27th Sept. “ Lanc III “A” CALAIS A/P 11 1hr 50
(Our shortest Operational Sortie!)
OPS 33 5th Oct. “ Lanc III “K” SAARBRUCKEN 5hrs 00
OPS 34 7th Oct. “ Lanc III “J” KLEVE (Flak damage to port wing) 3hrs 20
OPS 35 14th Oct. “ Lanc III “J” DUISBURG (RHUR) 3hrs 30
OPS 36 14th Oct. “ Lanc III “A” DUISBURG 4hrs 10
(Twice in one day!!!)
OPS 37 18th Nov. “ Lanc III “J” MUNSTER (Plt. Off. Don!!) 3hrs 50
OPS 38 28th Nov. “ Lanc III “J” ESSEN (RHUR) 4hrs 30
OPS 39 30th Nov. “ Lanc III “B” DUISBURG (RHUR) 4hrs 25
OPS 40 5th Dec. “ Lanc III “J” SOEST M/Yards (End of my
First tour of ops!) 5hrs 40
OPS 41 6th Dec. “ Lanc III “J” OSNABRUCK 5hrs 15
OPS 42 29th Dec. “ Lanc III “J” COBLENZ 4hrs 15
OPS 43 2nd January 1945 Lanc III “J” NURNBURG 7hrs 40
OPS 44 4th Jan. “ Lanc III “J” ROYAN (Nr. Bordeaux) 5hrs 05
OPS 45 5th Jan. “ Lanc III “J” HANOVER 4hrs
OPS 46 14th Jan. “ Lanc III “J” LEUNA (Morsburg) Oil Plant
(Diverted Tangmere – fog at Upwood) 8hrs 05
OPS 47 16th Jan. “ Lanc III “J” ZEITZ (Oil Plant Nr. Leipzig) 6hrs 30
OPS 48 28th Jan. “ Lanc III “0” STUTTGART
(Flew with Flt. Lt. Williams) 6hrs 00
OPS 49 7th Feb. “ Lanc III “J” GOCH (Bombed from 4500ft) 4hrs 40
OPS 50 8th Feb. “ Lanc III “B” POLLITZ (STETTIN) 8hrs 05
OPS 51 13th Feb. “ Lanc III “J” [underlined] DRESDEN [/underlined] 7hrs 45
OPS 52 1st March “ Lanc III “J” MANNHIEM 5hrs 05
OPS 53 5th March “ Lanc III “J” CHEMNITZ 7hrs 40
OPS 54 7th March “ Lanc III “J” DESSAU 7hrs 50
OPS 55 8th March “ Lanc III “J” HAMBURG 5hrs 15
OPS 56 12th March “ Lanc III “J” DORTMUND 4hrs 25
OPS 57 15TH March “ Lanc III “J” MISBURG Oil Refinery 6hrs 20
(Nr. Hanover)
OPS 58 16th March “ Lanc III “J” NURNBURG (3 fighter attacks) 6hrs 50
OPS 59 19th March “ Lanc III “J” HANAU Nr. Frankfurt 5hrs 45
OPS 60 20th March “ Lanc III “H” HEMMINGSTADT (Nr. Heide
30 miles South of Danish border) 4hrs 35
OPS 61 22nd March “ Lanc III “J” HILDESHIEM (Nr. Hanover) 4hrs 25
OPS 62 24TH March “ Lanc III “J” HARPENERWEG (RHUR) 4hrs 25
[page break]
[underlined] NOTES [/underlined]
Operations printed in RED were flown at night. Those printed in GREEN were daylight operations.
[underlined] Forty one [/underlined] operations were flown in Lancaster “J - Johnnie” (that would be “Juliet” in present day international phonetic alphabet).
The most concentrated months were August 1944 (eleven sorties), and March 1945 (eleven sorties)
Author: Flight Lieutenant Donald Ward Briggs, DFC RAF (Retd.)
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Title
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Tribute to a Pathfinder captain
Description
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Tribute to Squadron Leader William G Neal Distinguished Service Order, Distinguished Flying Cross, Croix de Guerre, 1912-2001. Describes how Don Briggs met and was crewed with Bill Neal’s crew who having completed one tour had been selected for a second on Pathfinders. Describes training as well as Bill Neal’s piloting and leadership qualities. Notes that Bill Neal gave Don Briggs the opportunity to learn to fly. Describes first operation on 156 Squadron Pathfinders to Tours in France in great detail including being engaged by night fighters. Describes various Pathfinder techniques and attacking V-1 bomb sites formation on Oboe-equipped Mosquito. Describes operations over Germany with reference to ant-aircraft fire and night fighters. Explains that some of the crew including Neal and Briggs volunteered for a further tour completing a total of 62 operations. Ends with a list of all 62 operations.
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Donald Briggs
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Eight typewritten pages
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eng
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Text
Text. Memoir
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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BBriggsDWNealeWv1
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
France--Tours
Germany
France
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1944-06
1944-07
1944-07-18
1944-07-30
1944-08
1944-08-07
1944-08-08
1944-08-15
1945
Contributor
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Sue Smith
David Bloomfield
156 Squadron
aerial photograph
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
bombing of Luftwaffe night-fighter airfields (15 August 1944)
bombing up
crewing up
debriefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Service Order
fear
flight engineer
ground personnel
H2S
Halifax
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Master Bomber
Me 110
military service conditions
Mosquito
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Oboe
Pathfinders
perimeter track
pilot
promotion
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Upwood
RAF Warboys
searchlight
superstition
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
target photograph
training
V-1
V-weapon
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/571/10320/BFraserDKFraserDKv1.2.pdf
7f9c985222c9f4a3d6bbf63c19e5c8d7
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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Fraser, Donald Keith
D K Fraser
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Fraser, DK
Description
An account of the resource
12 items. Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Donald Keith Fraser DFM (1924 - 2022, 1566621 Royal Air Force), a memoir, his log book, photographs and service material. The collection also contains an interview with Sylvia Fraser, his wife. He flew a tour of operations as a flight engineer with 101 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Donald Keith Fraser and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
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2016-11-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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WO DONALD KEITH FRASER
DFM 1566621
101 SQUADRON
JULY 1943 – MARCH 1944
CREW NAME: WL EVANS
[photograph of Donald Fraser]
[page break]
[photograph of Bomber Command Memorial]
[page break]
Contents
Page
Chapter A Introduction. 1
Chapter B Prior to World War II. 3
Chapter C Joined RAF 23rd July 1942. 7
Chapter D 101 Squadron Base Ludford Magna. 11
Chapter E 101 Squadron Operation Dates and Targets. 15
Chapter F 101 Squadron Notes on Various Operations. 17
Log Book and Battle Orders. 34
Chapter G Christmas 1943 and Christmas Dinner Menu. 41
Chapter H After Operations posted to Heavy Conversion Units. 45
Lindholme. 45
Bottesford. 47
Cottesmore. 51
North Luffenham. 52
Chapter I Advances in Technology. 55
What if? . 57
Chapter J Aircrew Bomber Command. 59
Wartime Bomber Squadrons. 60
Bombing of Berlin. 60
A Day in the Life of a Squadron. 61
Clothing Worn on Operations by our Crew. 62
Contact made with Two Crew Members plus information on others. 63
Chapter K The Lancaster Story. 67
Further notes relating to Black Thursday including information given by Len Brooks our Rear Gunner. 73
[page break]
[four photographs of author and Avro Lancaster]
[page break]
INTRODUCTION
Over the past 50 to 60 years I have enjoyed reading many books about bomber crews who flew with Bomber Command during World War II especially during the period from mid July 1943 until the end of the war. These books contained many accounts of true grit and heroism carried out by crew members. There are, however, a few experiences recalled which appear doubtful, a number of reported instances which are far-fetched or quite ridiculous to have suggested could have occurred.
Crews of the heavy bombers normally consisted of seven crew members all of whom were well trained to carry out specific tasks and as a team made up a competent crew capable of carrying out the various operations asked of them.
Operations were normally carried out over Europe (mainly to Germany) targets being the main industrial areas, factories, railway junctions and yards and eventually towns and cities, such as Berlin, Hanover, Hamburg, Leipzig, Frankfurt to name a few, all of which by 1943 the inhabitants were heavily involved in production for the German war effort.
The Bomber crews objectives were to carry out the operations they flew on to reach the target, drop their bombs and return home safely with their aircraft undamaged. Remember all these young men were volunteers, highly trained with the Pilot usually the “Skipper” and Captain, this was not to say that he gave all the orders and that no crew member acted until he gave that order. The Flight Engineer and Wireless Operator were the most mobile within the aircraft, therefore, if a situation occurred within the fuselage either or both could intervene by giving a quick call to the “Skipper”, or should a fault occur with the engine, the Flight Engineer would usually be the first to notice and carry out the essential remedy while informing the Pilot of the situation with procedure carried out. For a crew to be efficient and confident they had to be alert at all times, watching, listening and acting immediately. Survival required a highly trained crew team with loads of confidence in one’s self and in the other crew members and in the aircraft, so giving them a very strong attitude to press on.
A dedicated, loyal and skilful ground crew, a strong reliance in the Almighty (or what faith one had) and with very importantly more than normal, good luck, having lady luck on your side.
I have therefore put on paper a few experiences which happened to our crew while flying over Germany during mid 1943 to mid 1944. The following are not from diaries – they are what I recall after a long time. The experiences are genuine, the timing may be a little out, but to the reader it will still show the excitement, the pressure, sometimes fear, but above all the confidence and determination the crew had to carry out the task involved and return back to base with a full crew still intact.
A question I have been asked many times “why did you enjoy flying and with such odds against staying alive?” My answer, I loved flying, I enjoyed the excitement and I volunteered. I also liked the thought of coming back to base to a good meal and I felt safe and secure in my sometimes cold bed with its nice white sheets, compared to the Army personnel who
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worked under much more difficult conditions not knowing when they would eat or sleep and under conditions just as dangerous as ours, in fact, in many, more so.
By the end of writing I hope that I provide you with some idea of what these then young crew members of Bomber Command endured when flying over Germany for 6 to 7 1/2 hours at a time in a Lancaster bomber with around 2,000 gallons of fuel stored in tanks in the wings and with up to five tons of bombs slung under their feet along the fuselage, travelling at 250 miles an hour in the dark at 20-21,000 feet in height with temperatures of from -10 to 20oC below zero and with German fighters trying to shoot them down and with anti-aircraft guns (which could be very accurate) also trying to blow them up, just to make our journey a little more scary at times to find that on returning when we reached the English coastline that it was covered in thick cloud and dense fog making it almost impossible to find somewhere to land. Some of the words most suited to express the emotions of the crew in certain situations could be excited, interesting, scary, fear, relief, apprehensive and difficult.
I think, however, that the Brylcream boys done a very good job all these years ago.
Happy days!
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[page break]
CHAPTER B
PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II
1919-1939
The First World War ended in 1919 after four years of fighting and with a very heavy loss of life on both sides. Those who were lucky enough to survive and return home found it extremely difficult to find employment.
The Government had created some opportunities by forming the Forestry Commission with the role to establish over the coming fifty years a supply of timber sufficient to make the UK self sufficient in wood requirements. This was to be created by the purchase of large areas of land, mainly in Scotland and North England (cheap less productive land) then cultivating and planting this land with conifer species. To achieve this management had to be trained and forestry workers had to be recruited.
Forestry schools were established throughout England and Scotland to educate and train management staff. One such school was opened at Dunkeld in Central Scotland where a Mr Simpson received his training and he afterwards took up the post of Nursery Manager at Tulliallan Nursery, Kincardine on the Forth.
During the war the larger estates had suffered from the lack of gamekeepers and staff to carry out the maintenance and control of vermin etc, therefore there were many vacancies for people interested to fill these posts. My father and two of his brothers did just that, they became keepers on some of the very large estates in Scotland.
My father and mother were married shortly after the war and he took up an appointment as a game keeper on a large estate near Stirling, where my sister Jean and elder brother Sandy were born. In 1923 he moved to take up Keepering on Tulliallan Estate near Kincardine. The family lived in the East Lodge which was situated adjacent to the main road from Kincardine to Dunfermline and next to the land belonging to the Forestry Commission nursery. This is where I was born on 24th August 1923. Two years later the family again moved, this time to take on the position of head keeper on Donibristle Estate and lived in the small village of Auchtertool, Fifeshire where my two younger sisters, Betty and Mary were born. These were from what little I can recall, were happy times, the family did not have much spare cash but had sufficient to satisfy the family needs.
Mr Simpson lost part of his right arm during the first War and had an artificial part fitted. In 1949 I joined the Forestry Commission Research Branch and guess where I was stationed, at Tulliallan Nursery and Mr Simpson was still there. He told me that when my father left the East Lodge in 1925 he bought his hens and chickens from him. In 1950 the Forestry Commission built around 20 houses for its staff some 400 yards west of the East Lodge and Sylvia and myself were lucky enough to have one of them. Mr Simpson played an important role in our lives over the next 30 years, however this is another story.
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Moray estate during the winter months arranged a number of pheasant shoots to which a number of friends and associates of the Lairds (The Earl of Moray) were invited to attend.
The 29th January 1929 was one of those days and the shoot covered the area which my father was responsible for. The morning started with rain, however the shoot commenced and the guns and beaters started with good success. A good number of birds were raised and shot, as the day continued the weather became worse and by lunchtime, thunder and lightning had started so it was decided to call the shoot off. During the morning a few birds had been shot, but had not been collected by the dogs so my father with his two spaniels decided he would retrace the morning route and see if he could collect lost birds. The weather continued to deteriorate, while he was crossing a fence he was hit by lightning. As the day went on and he had not returned the other two keepers decided they would go and look for him. They found him where he lay by the fence with his two dogs nearby. This was a terrible and tragic day for all concerned, my mother with five children all under the age of 11, no house and little money coming in to support the family. My mother did have two sisters who stayed in Edinburgh and who visited fairly regularly and helped all they could with the family. The estate owner, the Earl of Moray and the Estate Factor were very helpful and within a week or two, arranged for the family to move to Aberdour where they gave us a house with a fairly large garden (this became quite a good asset especially when the War came).
I was told when I was much older that at the time there was much talk about what should happen to the family the suggestion being that the family should be split up with the three girls staying with mum and the two boys (Sandy and myself) being placed with other people possibly with a relative or with other people. Our mother strongly disagreed and said none of the family would leave they would stay together. I believe that my mother made the right decision, had the family been split up, our lives would have been totally different and not for the better in my opinion.
These were hard times for our mother (in those days there was not the same support or financial assistance available to call on as there is today) however somehow our mum managed to sort things out and keep all the family together. Unfortunately we as children were too young to contribute in the way of bringing in money to the home, our mum was a very likeable person and soon made friends and was extremely capable of working to earn money, she turned her hand to doing housework and helping people in their homes and for two days each week helping in Donibristle Estate house, which meant a fairly long walk to get there (one mile each way).
She and her sisters were always very happy smiling people always ready for a joke, this helped to make life much better for everyone. She still had friends on the estate and the whole family occasionally in an evening would take a walk of around three miles to visit Mr and Mrs Linton, he also was a gamekeeper on the estate.
Our mum was also a good Christian and attended church fairly regularly and also enjoyed attending some of the concerts and meetings held in the village hall, she also was a member of the WI.
The estate was very good to the family we received twice a year a load of fire wood, which myself and Sandy would chop up into suitable sizes to use on the fire. In the Spring the estate workers would come to dig over the garden and planted potatoes which helped greatly, this meant that all we (Sandy and I) had to do was keep the garden free from weeds and hill up the potatoes and plant some vegetables.
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As time moved on and we the children grew older all by the age of eight or nine years managed to find jobs. Sandy and myself delivering milk before going to school and then delivering groceries after school and at weekends Jean our oldest sister assisted in the Cooperative grocery shop. This of course all helped to bring in some money.
The school leaving age at that time was 15. We all attended Aberdour school initially. At the age of 11 the choice was either moving to Burtisland school which was a technical college or go to Dunfermline high school, both schools were a distance away from Aberdour and required travelling by bus. All the girls, Jean, Betty and Mary enjoyed Dunfermline High, while Sandy and myself went to the technical school. We all got excellent grades in the exams. I left school in 1938 at a time when the job situation was very limited with little choice. I had two interests, first to be a forester, my dream being to see all the high elevation land covered with trees as it was during much earlier times and take part in that operation. Secondly to become an Engineer.
I applied for two jobs, one on the Moray Estates to become a trainee forester, the other to become an apprentice mechanic with a garage company in Kirkcaldy.
Both replied and I decided to take up the forestry appointment. This proved very enjoyable and I loved the variety of jobs and gained volumes of experience working with two brothers, Bob and Will Ewan. Will Ewan was foreman and took a liking to me and gave me all the encouragement and opportunities to carry out everything which was available. The Second World War commenced on the 3rd September 1939 and when I was 17 1/2 years old I volunteered to join the RAF on flying duties and became a flight engineer. So in the end I got both my dreams to come true. After the war being demobbed in 1946, I took up an appointment to become a probationer at the Royal Botanic Gardens, Edinburgh. In 1948 I joined the Forestry Commission Research Branch.
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[page break]
6
[page break]
CHAPTER C
JOINED RAF 23RD JULY 1942
The Second World War started on 3rd September 1939. I’m not going into details regarding the reasons why Britain thought it necessary to do so as I believe most people know the reasons.
Prior to the war during the summers of 1937 and 1938 the Territorial Army held their camps on the outskirts of Aberdour on grass fields owned by Mill Farm, which was situated adjacent to the Sheriff Road. To us as youngsters it was exciting and interesting to see double rows of horses tethered along a single rope and the troops living under canvas in large tents. To see the different tartans depending on which regiment was resident in camp at the time, such as The Black Watch, The Camerons or The Gordons.
They were the first troops to be called up for service followed by people from certain professions and the general public of different age classes, one had to be 18 years old before being recruited.
All three services required recruits and there was a certain agreement of allowing people to join the service of their choice, however, if one service was short of personnel then recruits had no choice but to go where sent.
I was sixteen years old when the war started and when my time came to be called up I wished to join the RAF and, if possible, to fly on reaching my 17th birthday. I decided I would volunteer for the RAF on flying duties. Volunteers usually were given the opportunity to serve in the service of their choice.
I recall discussing the war with a few of my colleagues and suggesting that this war would change the face of Europe, and would also change all our lives completely if we survived.
I was called up on 23rd July 1942; my orders were to report to Warrington Recruitment Centre. My stay there was for two days where I, along with many more of my own age were fitted out with uniform and all other necessities. We then travelled to Blackpool to commence our training and embark on a flight mechanics course.
Blackpool like many other seaside resorts had many private residences available (usually used as holiday accommodation or bed and breakfast), these were now being used to accommodate RAF recruits.
I with others was billeted in Montague Street, South Shore near to the South Shore beach. This turned out to be excellent, the landlady treated us extremely well, and we each had our own bedroom and facilities. She had to supply us with breakfast and evening meal, and normal washing facilities. In fact for all the time I was in Blackpool, which was just under a year I stayed there, the RAF supplied our towels etc. In fact two evenings a week we had what was called ‘shower parades’. In total there was near 10,000 RAF personnel billeted in
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the town, so through the town certain buildings such as baths or swimming pool areas were converted into showers, rows and rows of showers with dressing accommodation alongside.
The recruits such as ourselves were divided into groups of between 40 and 50 and each group had a corporal in charge, he was in charge of all our activities such as the shower parade. We had to assemble at a point near to our billet on certain evenings each week. The corporal would march us to the showers then afterwards march us back, he was also responsible for us on all other activities.
The course of flight mechanic was a very intensive course covering both theory and practical work. This was carried out at Squires Gate near St Anne’s, three miles east of Blackpool and was originally a small airport. The hangers were converted to workshops for training purposes.
We were transported in bus convoys daily, morning and evening to and from the base with our same corporal, Lofty Clark, in charge. We also carried out the usual training and skills necessary to be a good soldier including physical training, assault course, rifle drill and route marches. Most of these were carried out on the area around the South Shore pleasure ground. The mechanics course lasted for five months. At the end of each fortnight we had verbal exams and after six weeks written exams, each exam had to be passed before one could move on. If I remember all our group passed their exams.
After the mechanics course we were given two weeks leave and on return commenced on a fitters course, which lasted a further five months, the same routine as previously. What I forgot to say, we had a break in the morning and afternoon when the NAAFI vans arrived serving a bun and a cup of tea.
By the end of the further course we were capable of dismantling an aircraft engine and reassembling it with success. We also had a basic knowledge of the aircraft workings at this stage before moving onto the next stage of our training, the flight engineer course.
We were divided into those who would be flying on Halifaxs [sic] and those who would fly on Lancasters, fortunately I was selected to fly on Lancasters.
Blackpool was a fairly good place to be stationed at, as with its many parks there was always plenty of opportunity to play sport, which was very much encouraged by the RAF. I spent most weekends playing either football or rugby; in fact for the 1942‑3 season I played rugby for Blackpool’s third team. There was little time in evenings for anything, as I said two nights were taken up with shower parade, then most weeks a further two nights for other activities. Every Sunday there was a church parade, one had to attend the parade but not the service if it was not your religion. Most places in Blackpool were closed, however, the lower levels of the tower were still open and I remember the organ was still being played and the ballroom was open at certain times.
For the flight engineers course those of us that were to fly on Lancasters were transferred to St Athans, South Wales. The course was originally intended to last eight weeks however, on arrival we were told that flight engineers were in such short supply that the course was being crammed into two weeks. To enable this to happen we worked a 12‑hour day, seven days each week, however, the course was a success and we all knew the basics about the Lancaster workings, although we still had not flown in a Lancaster.
At the end of the course we were split up into groups of six and told to report to a certain Air Training Unit. I had to report to Lindholme near Doncaster, where other members of crew which included pilot, navigator, bomb aimer, mid upper gunner and rear gunner were already
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at Lindholme operating as a crew for a period of four weeks awaiting for flight engineers to become available.
On arrival we were introduced to our crews and the following day we were flying as a complete crew, however, not on Lancasters (Lancasters were too scarce to be used on training duties). We flew on Halifax, this was a heavy bomber and gave the pilot the opportunity and experience of flying heavy aircraft. We continued training and flying at Lindholme for a further week.
As a complete crew and along with one other crew from the same course at Lindholme we were posted to 101 Squadron which was based at Ludford Magna seven miles west of Louth Lincolnshire. This was a recently built airfield; the runways and perimeter roads were complete along with the aircraft stand pods. Accommodation was nissen huts as were the messes. Roads and paths around the areas were still not laid; Wellington boots were the order of the day.
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CHAPTER D
LUDFORD 101 SQUADRON
Ludford Magna
Ludford Magna, a small village situated on the main road between Louth and Market Rasen, was to change dramatically as the area was chosen to be the site for one of the new warfare RAF bomber airfields. Work commenced in spring 1943 and by May the airfield was ready for occupation however, as with many other war built sites, many buildings were far from being useable.
The airfield had three runways with the main runway, which was two thousand yards long from north to south. The other two runways were 14 hundred yards, one of which ran east to west. They were all connected by a narrow perimeter track of which there were 36 standing pods. All personnel accommodation was nissen hut type buildings and erected on the north side of the main road running through the village, some distance from the main airfield.
101 Squadron took over occupation of the airfield in late June but even then there were no hardcore paths leading to the billets or the ablution blocks. This meant that travelling to and from billets or airfield, the only serviceable footwear was rubber boots. We as a crew arrived in late July and I remember squelching in the mud around the base and when it rained circumstances were even worse, and it did rain quite a bit during the autumn and winter hence the airfield got the nickname of Mudford (instead of Ludford) and was well deserved.
On days when operations were planned the routine was briefing which was held at a certain time when all crew members met in the briefing room where the CO (Comanding [sic] Officer) addressed the crews stating which crews were flying and which if any were on standby in case any crew members were unable to fly.
The CO would then open the curtains on the wall covering the maps and the target, after which the various heads of section gave details of weather expected on route over target and on return, also bomb load, fuel load and any other relative information such as height levels expected to be flown at by the different aircraft. Lancasters usually flew at one or two thousand feet higher than the Halifax, which would be flying at around 19,000 feet.
It was most important for 101 Squadron to keep strictly to the timing and height levels as with ABC (Airborne Cigar equipment) on board, 101 Squadron crews task was to cover the rest of the bombers flying on the operation, along the route to the target, through the target and on the return route. Example, if the target time was 20 minutes for all aircraft to pass through the target and if 101 Squadron had 22 aircraft flying, each aircraft would be allocated a time through the target of one minute apart.
This put considerable pressure on the navigator and pilot, the route was always discussed among the crew members such as pilot, bomb aimer and engineer in order to help and assist the navigator to stay on course such as any landmarks, heavy barrage of ack ack or search
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lights, as these would usually mean certain industrial areas, towns or cities. Also if weather conditions were good possibly a certain bend on a river or railway, or road crosses, these markers were always very helpful to the navigator to keep him on course and on time.
All crew members had different personalities we all, however, accepted that we were professionals and some of the best in our trades, and that belief and the fact that we worked extremely well as a crew. We trusted each other’s judgement and carried out the requirements without question.
The crew (our crew) was organised similar to a football team we had a captain in our pilot Wally and with a few key team players who had the ability to carry out other members’ duties. They were Navigator, Jimmy, could act as bomb aimer, Eric our bomb aimer had sufficient knowledge of navigation to bring the aircraft home, and myself as engineer could in an emergency takeover and fly and land the aircraft. The gunners were the crewmembers most out of touch with the others. In my position I could watch their turrets for movement and could keep in touch with them, and if for any reason their turrets were not moving I could give them a call. I could easily see the mid upper gunner Bill and see the rear gunner guns Len when they turned to port.
Eric our bomb aimer lounged in the front compartment of the aircraft on lookout for other aircraft and to aid the navigator, his map reading was spot on, and he liked to give a commentary of what was happening leading up to the target – such sayings as men it’s bloody marvellous, we are bang on time over the target, then this was his time he was in control, he was very precise with his left slightly, right a little, hold it there, left a little. I would be watching for other aircraft and for fighters, and as he said on this occasion that it was over Berlin I said hold it Eric another Lanc is just passing immediately beneath us. He said: “I have missed the target we will have to go round again”. In this situation Eric was in control and Wally our pilot even with a few strong words said to Jimmy our navigator “give us a new course to bring us round again”. There were the occasional shouts from the gunners such as “fighter on port, eleven o’clock” or “watch that searchlight” or “collision between Lanc and Halifax – no parachutes, poor bastards”. The wireless operator Norman (Nobby) was good at his job he never panicked. Nobby could obtain bearings when others couldn’t. I think he did naughty things on the frequencies to get priority. He had the warmest place on the aircraft.
Jimmy our navigator was superb, conscientious, every course had to be accurate and everything he did he gave a reason for his decision. Wally our pilot would discuss with him the situation for the change of course and automatically changed course. Wally was an excellent pilot, steady and a good captain and we worked well together, we the crew called him our taxi driver. Taking off with a full bomb load and possibly two thousand gallons of fuel was the most nervous part of the trip, after receiving the green light he would taxi onto the runway, line up, test the engines remembering we had probably some waiting for five to ten minutes, with slow engine revolutions which could overheat the engines. We together would open up the four throttles when the engines were screaming he would release the brakes and the aircraft would start rolling along the runway. When we reached the 90+ speed he would require both his hands on the controls and I would push the throttle controls fully forward, keeping the port engines throttles slightly ahead of the starboard engines throttles, as I found that the Lancaster tended to veer to the port on take off or nearing the end of the runway. If we were still on the ground I would push all four throttles through the barrier, this gave the extra power we only used this in extreme cases, as it was hard on the engines and used extra fuel. Once in the air Wally would say “undercarriage up” then “flaps up” and we would start climbing on a spiral course until we reached the height of around ten thousand
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feet before setting course on our operation. I would adjust engines to obtain speed required with minimum revs.
As I previously said 101 Squadron operated ABC, which meant we carried an eighth member of crew. A specialist, his job was to jam German radio transmissions to the night fighters’ ground based controllers, his operating place was just behind the main part of the port side about 6 ft square with no external vision. It was said that these members had no one crew to fly with and were allocated a crew on an operation base, this maybe true however we were a very organised crew and this arrangement did not apply. We therefore were allocated Ken as a crewmember and he flew with us during the remainder of our tour.
101 Squadron radio call was for aircraft ‘Bookworm’, control tower ‘Bookshop’.
Returning to after briefing was completed we returned to the mess where a meal was always arranged which consisted of a main course of egg, bacon and chips. We then dressed into our flying kit, collected our parachute and made our way to the crew room where we collected our flying rations, these consisted of sandwiches, Horlicks tablets chewing gum and a flask of coffee or tea. If you wished wakey wakey pills to help keep you awake while flying (none of our crew ever indulged in these) we also collected a package containing money and maps of the countries over which we would be flying on the chance that we may be shot down.
After a few operations, the crew was allocated our own aircraft, for us X² the dispersal point was quite a way round the perimeter track and close to the road. The aircraft was parked facing away from the road and perimeter fence so when Mac our ground crew sergeant in charge of X² and his colleagues required to clean their dirty, oily boilersuits they would wash them in a can of fuel and hang them on the fence behind the aircraft, then when the engines were tested the slipstream would blow dry their clothes.
There was usually four or five technicians allocated to each aircraft with either a corporal or sergeant in charge. They were a grand bunch of lads, dedicated and had to work in the open under all various weather conditions from high summer temperatures to severe cold and winter weather conditions. They also had a remarkable collection of spare parts hidden away in their crew hut, which they built up over time from broken Lancasters. This enabled them to carry out repairs and patch up any enemy damage that had been inflicted on the aircraft. This meant that the aircraft could be kept serviceable and ready for action without delay and not having to ground the aircraft while waiting for spares from the stores.
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CHAPTER E
OPERATION DATES AND TARGETS
[photograph of author]
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Operations 101 Squadron 1943-44
Operation – Date - Place
1 - 20th August 1943 - Leverkusen.
2 - 30th-31st August 1943 - Munchen Gladbach.
0 - 31st Aug-1st Sept 1943 - (Abortive) Berlin. Starboard outer feathered, landed on three engines.
3 - 3rd-4th September 1943 - Berlin. Held in searchlights for five minutes.
4 - 23rd-24th September 1943 - Mannheim.
5 - 29th-30th September 1943 - Bochum.
6 - 2nd-3rd October 1943 - Munich. Shot up over Amiens landed Tangmere.
7 - 5th-6th October 1943 - Hanover.
8 - 20th-21st October 1943 - Leipzig. Electrical problems.
9 - 3rd-4th November 1943 - Düsseldorf.
10 - 10th-11th November 1943 - Modane. Fuel shortage, landed Tangmere.
11 - 18th-19th November 1943 - Berlin.
12 - 22nd-23rd November 1943 - Berlin. Rear turret frozen up.
13 - 26th-27th November 1943 - Berlin.
14 - 16th-17th December 1943 - Berlin. Heavy losses fog on return. Many fighter flares around target area.
15 - 20th-21st December 1943 - Frankfurt.
16 - 24-25th December 1943 - Berlin. Rear turret u/s starboard outer feathered.
17 - 29th-30th December 1943 - Berlin.
18 - 1st-2nd January 1944 - Berlin.
19 - 2nd-3rd January 1944 - Berlin. Mug passed out through lack of oxygen.
20 - 5th-6th January 1944 - Stettin. Best photo in bomber command.
21 - 15th-16th January 1944 - Brunswick.
22 - 27th-28th January 1944 - Berlin.
23 - 28th-29th January 1944 - Berlin.
24 - 15th-16th February 1944 - Berlin.
25 - 19th-20th February 1944 - Leipzig. Heaviest losses in group.
26 - 20th-21st February 1944 - Stuttgart.
27 - 24th-25th February 1944 - Schweinfurt. Best photo in group.
28 - 25th-26th February 1944 - Augsburg.
29 - 1st-2nd March 1944 - Stuttgart.
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CHAPTER F
101 SQUADRON
NOTES ON VARIOUS OPERATIONS
In late July 1943 after completing my flight engineer course and joining the other crew members at conversion unit Lindholme near Doncaster, with two other crews we arrived at 101 Squadron based at Ludford Magna. The crews were always known by the name of the pilot and out of the three crews that arrived, two crews had the name of Evans; W L Evans and A H Evans. I was the flight engineer assigned to W L Evans’s crew and had flown with them at conversion unit, however, the records had been mixed up and showed me as flight engineer to A H Evans’s crew. The simplest method of resolving the problem would have been for me to join A H Evans’s crew and the other flight engineer to join W L Evans’s crew. W L Evans, however, said definitely not, I was his engineer and in no way was I not flying in his crew, the records were therefore corrected.
For the next three weeks we worked as a crew getting to know each other and familiarising
ourselves with the aircraft. When we were told that we were to be on operations we had
flown 33 hours in total, 12 of which was night flying.
Both crews flew, our first operation was on 22nd-23rd August 1943, the target was Leverkusen. There was of course much excitement among us and especially when at briefing the curtains covering the maps on the wall were opened and we saw the target, we were the new bods not knowing what to expect. We listened carefully to what was being said by the various Heads of Section regarding the weather, hot spots to miss along the route, where fighters could be expected and where flak would be very heavy.
Leverkusen was a German town situated in the near proximity of the Ruhr Germany’s main industrial centre, where a high percentage of their heavy equipment was made. The Ruhr had been visited many times and considerable damage carried out which helped delay their war equipment this was an operation to attack specific targets, which would further upset and delay their war effort.
After briefing we returned to the mess for a meal, which usually consisted of egg, bacon and chips. Takeoff was scheduled for around 21:30 hours so before that we had to collect our parachutes rations and packet containing money, maps etc to cover the countries over which we would be flying in case we had to bail out.
We then changed into flying kit before catching the crew bus out to our aircraft. The next task was to carry out the pre-flying checks on the aircraft, then start the engines.
Wally then taxied the aircraft along the perimeter track towards the takeoff runway, waiting in the queue for the aircraft in front to obtain the green light to takeoff. Then our turn, green light given, we turn onto the runway, line up at the end, carry out the formal checks between pilot and engineer. Wally our pilot and skipper then holds on the brake as I open up the four
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throttles, pushing the port two slightly ahead of the starboard two, let brake off and feel the aircraft rush along the runway increasing speed rapidly (this was the most exciting part of the operation as far as I was concerned).
As the throttles are fully opened and as the end of the runway is nearing, the heavy aircraft laden with fuel and bombs leaves the tarmac behind. Relief. Pilot: “undercarriage up” engineer “undercarriage up, brakes on off”. Pilot “flaps up”, engineer “flaps up”. As the undercarriage and flaps are raised you could feel the plane sink a little before starting to climb. Pilot to navigator: “course and speed, and height”. I would then reduce throttle to minimum revs to produce power sufficient to keep climbing at the speed asked for, then as far as possible synchronise the four engines to cut out unnecessary noise. The noise from four Merlin engines was a noise that you never forget.
Taking off and managing to get this large aircraft off the ground safely while possibly carrying two thousand gallons of fuel stored in the wings and a full bomb load under your feet, as I said previous, was always the most exciting part of the operation as far as I was concerned and I always marvelled at Wally’s skills in achieving this without any mishaps. I was always relieved, happy and knew that everything would be all right until we had to do it all again on the next operation.
We had no troubles with our landing at base on return from Leverkusen, taxied to our parking space, caught a crew bus which took us to the debriefing room where we received a nice hot cup of tea or coffee with a spot of rum in if wanted. The debriefing consisted of an Intelligence Officer asking a number of questions about what we saw on route, anything unusual, searchlight positions around built up areas, flak, fighter activity. Did we see any planes being shot down and did we see any parachutes appearing and anything else, which may be of interest.
We were then able to return to the mess for breakfast. While having breakfast, A H Evans and crew arrived, we had a few words regarding the operation and made our way back to our billet for a few hours sleep, luckily it was coming up to high moon period so for the next ten days there were no operations.
The second operation, which both crews were on, was to Munchen Gladbach on 30th and 31st August, we had another fairly quiet trip without any problems and landed safely on time at Base. We heard that two planes were late, one of which was A H Evans, we held on at breakfast hoping to hear some news. News came through that a SR Lancaster had landed further south due to fuel shortage, it turned out not to be A H Evans and crew. The following day we heard the dreaded news that A H Evans’s crew was reported missing and presumably shot down. This was later confirmed.
This was a new experience for us to know that seven young men who we had been friendly with, even for a short time, were no longer around. The engineer had come through the same training as myself – mechanic course fitters course at Blackpool – followed by flight engineers course at St Athans, then crewing up at Lindholme. He was slightly older than myself therefore not in my squad although I did know him on the course to say hello, and as you know both crews joined 101 Squadron on the same day and I almost changed places with him.
The same routine was followed each time we took off and continued to be the most anxious time and possibly the most scary and nervous moments of each operation. We soon realised that each operation was different with its own hazards and that flying over Europe for however short or long a period, it was a very dangerous and frightening place to be.
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The normal procedure for all aircraft after takeoff was to start to gain height, circling the area until reaching a height of around 10,000 ft before setting course for the target. Around the Lincoln area there were at least 20 airfields, each with at least 20 aircraft flying on each operation, that was why the residents living in the area knew when operations were on by the noise of 400 planes all circling to gain height. Once a course was set we tried to reach a height of at least 15,000 ft before crossing the enemy coast.
There were certain things that we had no control over such as the weather, the conditions on route could be quite different from that forecasted. Increased wind speeds, a tail wind instead of a nose wind, these affected the navigator greatly who was trying to stay on route and be at a certain point within the time space of the operation. More so with 101 Squadron, responsible to give protection by using ABC over the full length of the operation. Thunderstorms and heavy clouds could also cause icing up of the engine air intakes and front edge of the wings (remember temperatures could be as low as -20°) and if not dealt with could cause engine failure.
Fog, however, was the most serious problem, thick fog in the UK on return. Blanket fog so thick it was impossible to see anything from the air or the ground, this caused heavy losses of aircraft as returning from flying with low fuel levels, trying to find a landing ground was impossible, for many resulting in heavy losses in aircraft and crews. Conditions improved slightly when FIDO was installed on some runways.
There were hazards from conditions which crews did not expect as the Met weather forecasts had given much more favourable conditions, otherwise we should not have been flying. As soon as we flew over the Dutch coastline we expected to be greeted by flak and if ground conditions were good by enemy fighters, depending on the operations route, flak could be very heavy and accurate especially round the towns and cities. Searchlights then also came into play especially those with the strong blue coloured lights. If caught by one of these it was almost impossible to lose them they were also radar controlled by anti-aircraft guns, which were especially accurate and many aircraft became casualties.
There was also a fair risk of collision bearing in mind that on the route to the target there were possibly between 400 and 600 large aircraft (100 ft wingspan) all travelling in the same direction at the same time, making for the same point and expected to be over the target all within the space of 20 minutes or less (granted there would be a range of heights between some, possibly within a band of 2,000 ft). Think of it as 600 cars travelling along a motorway all doing 70 miles per hour, all expecting to pass point ‘A’ at between 01:00 and 01:20 hours. If congestion occurred the car driver would see and would slow down, there was no way of changing lane or slowing in an aircraft. It was therefore very clear to us as a crew early on that flying over Europe was a very dangerous and frightening place to be and if we were to succeed we had to work as a team, be alert all the time whether for two hours or eight hours. This we managed fairly well, we recognised that the safest place to be was in the middle of the concentration along the route. It was usually those who had strayed off course that were picked off by fighters or became casualties by flak.
Our navigator Jimmy was therefore a very important member of the crew (he was an exceptionally good navigator) the rest of the crew could also help him which we did if conditions were clear telling him of certain markers, such as there is heavy flak ahead to 11 o’clock, or we are just passing over a river with a railway line and road alongside or such like information.
He could then take action if necessary and give a change of course to Wally our pilot, or if we had a strong tail wind ask me to reduce speed slightly. So we had two-way conversation
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between key members such as navigator, bomb aimer, pilot and engineer but only with reference to the operation in hand.
The rear and mid upper gunners role was to continually scour the sky by rotating from side to side in their turrets, with one turning to starboard the other turning to port, the bomb aimer controlled the front myself had the only view to watch the gunners and watch ahead and to the sides, while the bomb aimer carried out his other work such as dropping window or preparing for his bombing run, therefore we were fairly well covered. If another aircraft came close or overhead, or below us on our bombing run a crewmember could give the alarm. If a fighter was seen and showing interest then mostly the gunners gave the alarm “fighter starboard, 2 o’clock, dive now!”. Wally would dive immediately and carry out a corkscrew manoeuvre then return on to normal course, this usually worked. If for any reason I could see the gunner’s turrets not moving I would give them a call, only once was it necessary to take further action (this is recorded later) usually they were just having a short rest or such like.
Fuel was also a concern, petrol was rationed throughout the UK as most of the supplies had to be imported, therefore fuel for aircraft was also closely regulated on Lancasters to 200 gallons per hour flying time. Therefore if the estimated time for an operation was seven hours, fuel allocated was 1,400 gallons plus 200 extra, a total of 1,600 gallons.
The flight engineer therefore did have some control; it was dependent on how efficient he was in regulating the engines (similar to driving, there are good drivers and not so good drivers). The Lancaster had six fuel tanks, three in each wing with the small tank on the outside of the wing which could only be pumped into the middle tank, the other two on each wing could be used in tandem or individually to feed the engines.
It was the engineer’s responsibility to use the fuel distribution the most successful way so that whatever happened the maximum fuel was available to keep the engines running. To such ends I fully used the centre tanks each fuelling the two engines on port and starboard when sufficient was used pump tank fuel into tank two, then using fuel evenly from the other two tanks to supply the port and starboard engines.
If anything unforeseen happened such as a tank being damaged from enemy flak or fighter guns, the minimum fuel loss would occur and I could re-adjust my method of usage by opening and closing valves.
All engines could be run from one of the four tanks, this meant keeping a log and recording every ten or fifteen minutes. It was also necessary to record engine temperatures and oil pressure and with experience listening to the noise of the engines could give a good indication of how efficient they were running. Fuel could be saved by making sure that, when possible, the engine revs could be reduced and that other control on the aircraft such as flaps, etc were being used at optimum levels. This saving in fuel could be the difference between touching down safely or not, on the odd occasion when fuel loss occurred from a leaking tank or when on reaching the base area it was under thick fog and extra flying was necessary to find a suitable landing site.
Life on the base was very mixed, flying on operations was usually carried out during the dark nights of the moon and these two weeks could be hectic, operations could be on two consecutive nights resulting in our crew getting to bed at around 05:00 hours and then having to be ready for pre-briefing and head of section meetings, followed by main briefing at 15:00 to 16:00 hours and once again ready for takeoff by 21:30 hours. Other times operations could be scheduled and then cancelled because of possibly extreme weather
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conditions over the UK or over the target area. The dark nights were therefore a continual case of being ready to fly when called upon.
The period of high moon was more relaxing. Training and practice still had to be carried out such as bombing practice for Eric; this was carried out on targets set in the North Sea a few miles off shore. Gun practice for Len and Bill carried out on a moving target towed behind a small plane off the coastline.
The station had an excellent gym where one could keep fit which was essential and a very good library of general reading material and technical information. I also spent a considerable amount of time on the simulator improving my flying skills and landing procedures, also the period when crews could have some leave. I always travelled home on these occasions.
We were on base during the autumn (harvest time) as a crew we decided to help the local farmer with stocking and collecting his grain crops as our accommodation Nissen huts were situated near to the farmstead, in return he offered us a pile of fire wood to keep our stove lit during the colder nights as the coke ration was rather limited.
Ludford Magna was a small village supporting two pubs, a post office and a small but very nice church during the 11 months, which I spent at the base. I had never been in either of the pubs. I had attended the church service on a number of occasions.
The Women’s Institute also ran a small unit situated on the main street where one could obtain a nice cup of tea and a cake, also within a mile radius there were two small cafes which crew members frequently visited during the day for a tea and a bun.
During off flying periods we as a crew fairly regularly visited the Kings Head Hotel in Louth where we had a meal. Crewmembers also received generous leave, seven days approximately every 6‑8 weeks depending on weather and operation timing. We had extra rations of chocolate, vitamin tablets and cigarettes. On leave from Ludford I always travelled home to Aberdour in Fife, Scotland. It was a long, slow journey, going on leave we usually managed to go by transport from the base then catch a train at Louth to Grantham where we could catch the train on the main line travelling between London and Edinburgh. This was usually an overnight train and usually very packed by other military personnel doing the same. The train usually reached Edinburgh during the night or very early morning then another wait to catch a train to Aberdour. The conditions occurred on the return journey unfortunately the train reached Louth early in the morning when no such transport was
available; it was then a seven mile walk back to base.
Leave was a time to catch up with family and friends and especially to catch up with sleep and to chill out and rest. I said earlier that we did have good rations of sweets, chocolates and cigarettes which I usually was able to take some home.
During the winter 1943/44 we had several days of heavy snow and naturally this added to the mud when it melted, it also meant that to keep operational the runways and perimeter tracks had to be cleared of snow, every available person, air crews and ground crews, armed with spades and shovels turned out to clear the snow. We were treated with the odd drop of rum to keep the cold out and our spirits up, and to keep us digging.
Our billet nissen huts had snowdrifts around them, these Nissen huts were unlined and in bad weather there was considerable condensation inside and this used to run in the corrugations of the sheeting and if the temperature was cold enough, it would freeze. We did have heating in the form of a round pot stove with chimney from top of the stove up through
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the roof. Coal or anthracite was the main fuel, it was of course rationed and in short supply. There were raids between huts to obtain extra supplies. The odd chair went missing along with any spare pieces of wood to help out. If you were lucky and had sufficient supply to completely fill up the stove and get it and part of the chimney extremely hot then it would keep the hut warm until the next morning.
During the summer the problems were different, it was earwigs that would climb up the inside of the huts and occasionally drop into beds. I remember one of our crew members, I can’t remember who, while sleeping an earwig crawled into his ear and he had to pay a visit to the MO to have it removed. Field mice could also cause annoyance.
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NOTES ON VARIOUS OPERATIONS
Operation 3
3rd/4th September 1943
Target: Berlin
We had a reasonably quiet trip keeping clear of the various hot spots on route and staying well on course, searchlights were many on the approach to the target with some very powerful blue lights. As we prepared for our bombing run we got caught by one of these powerful lights and no matter what we did we could not lose it, and if we did a further light caught on to us. We were flying at 22,000 ft; Wally decided the best manoeuvre was to put the aircraft into a power dive and loose [sic] height quickly.
After four minutes we were down to 18,000 ft and still dazzled by its glare just then a Halifax, which was flying at a much lower altitude, drifted across under us and the light caught on to it, then the Halifax completely exploded. It had received the full blast possibly intended for us. These blue searchlights and guns were radar controlled and worked together.
We reached the target and bombed at the lower level then set for home and had a quiet trip back to base. We were a bit shaken up by what had happened to the Halifax and in future made a mental note to keep well clear of blue searchlights. The navigator noted in his log the position of this light so if possible it could be targeted for special attention.
Operation 6 (705 hours)
2nd-3rd October 1943
Target: Munich
Takeoff time for the operation was 18:45 hours. For us as a crew this was a quiet trip, we had no problems with enemy fighters, searchlights were few and by keeping strictly on course found no problems with ack-ack. We reached the target on time, bombed and started on our way home still without any troubles, then as we thought we were doing well without warning we were shot up by anti aircraft guns near the town of Amiens which caught the underside of the body of the aircraft and along the wings. From this we developed a fuel leak. In trying to evade further damage from the anti aircraft guns Wally put the aircraft into a power dive at around 21,000 ft, trying to pull it out took Wally and myself great strength pulling on the control column, we were down to 5,000 ft when we finally levelled out. On inspecting the aircraft at Tangmere we found that many of the rivets on the lower side of the wings had been stripped open owing to the strain on the wings caused by the speed in diving, and counted over 80 holes of various sizes along the body and wings however after refuelling the following day we decided the aircraft was airworthy and safe enough to fly back to base where we could have repairs carried out quickly. Mac was not amused when he saw the Lanc X not X² but was pleased that we had brought it back safely for his team to repair it.
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Operation 8
19th/20th October
Target: Berlin
During the week previously I had been told that more new Lancasters would be arriving at base and the one with X² as its recognition number would be allocated to our crew and from then on for our use on operations. Up until that date we operated on whichever aircraft was available. Mac, a ground engineer (Sergeant) had arrived on the station in July, until now he was a spare engineer, X² became his charge for all servicing and repairs. We struck up a great relationship between us and after each operation, as soon as possible I would contact Mac and tell him of any problems which we had experienced during the flight. I was thrilled to think I would be the only person operating these engines and I could nurse then [sic] whenever possible and be reasonably sure that they had not been misused for no good reason. Mac had warned me that because of the lack of time, the aircraft had been checked and was serviceable, however, he and his team had not yet had the time to check all electrical and hydraulic circuits.
Takeoff was 17:30 hours and all went well until I retracted the undercarriage, it appeared to lift ok but the warning lights indicated that it had not fully locked. We proceeded to circle and climb and as we reached the Dutch coastline Nobby, our wireless operator, was having problems with his equipment, I then had a temperature gauge on one of the engines reading an excessively high temperature. The engine appeared to be working satisfactorily, however, we were still only a short time into our operation. I was concerned what may continue to happen and without radio contact we could have a problem.
We still had a full bomb load on board and high levels of fuel, under these conditions we could not return to base and land without losing our bombs. Wally was in agreement with Jimmy our navigator, they decided that they would set course for Texel and drop our bombs on the installation there. This we did then returned to base. As we had no contact with ground control we landed without permission.
On return before landing, however, we dropped our undercarriage and as the lights were not showing we did do a shallow dive with a quick pull up, this jerked the undercarriage down and all was well. The problems were resolved, the pressure gauge was faulty, meaning the undercarriage was not fully engaging because of limited pressure on the hydraulics.
Operation 10
11th/12th November 1943
Target: Modane
Normally as we have said previously operations were usually carried out during the nights when there was no moon. This was full moon; a beautiful bright night with clear skies which meant that aircraft flying could be seen for great distances. We had no trouble in reaching the target with little or no opposition from enemy fighters, searchlights or flak. Even on the way home it was trouble free and we could see and watch the marvellous sights of the high mountains as we passed over them and then without notice flying over Amiens a blue searchlight ‘coned’ us, immediately followed by heavy and accurate ack-ack fire which burst very close to us, causing some damage to the underside of the aircraft and to one of the fuel tanks, luckily no crew member was injured.
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This was not a great problem it only meant isolating the tank involved, eventually causing a fuel shortage. I said we would not have sufficient fuel to reach base, so Jimmy (our navigator) gave Wally a course for Tangmere in South England where we landed. On checking we found that the aircraft was not too badly damaged around 50 holes of various sizes along the underside of the fuselage and two holes in the side and front window where a piece of shrapnel entered in and out again, as well as cutting a hole in the sleeve of my flying jacket. This I did not know until I was removing my jacket.
The following morning we refuelled and returned to base.
Operation 14 (Black Thursday)
16th-17th December 1943
Target: Berlin
This was supposed to be a very quiet trip as reported at briefing in the late afternoon. The weather was so bad over Europe that no fighters would be able to fly therefore the route would be straight to the capital Berlin, and straight back out – should be a very easy journey, unfortunately things did not turn out this way.
As we crossed over the Dutch coast the weather took a dramatic change and instead of cloud and thick fog, conditions were good for flying and the fighters which were supposed to be sitting on the ground were flying on strength and interrupting the bomber stream, and we noted a few running battles and a number of aircraft being shot down. Within a short time it was clear that this was going to be a night to remember. The attacks continued all the way to the target, fortunately we remained clear of any trouble except for seeing the odd fighter going in the opposite direction.
There was the usual heavy concentration of searchlights and heavy activity of ack ack over the target creating a heavy barrage. We bombed on target and set on our route for home, this proved uneventful for us although we did see a few fighter battles being continued.
The weather by this time was beginning to close in with much more low cloud as a result Wally decided to carry out a gentle decent, reaching the coastline at around 2,000 ft and by this time we knew that there would be trouble with low cloud and fog. We were alerted by base that Ludford was fog-bound and that we should proceed to Driffield, this was when it became very difficult. By now all the crewmembers were active in trying to find any ground markers all with little success, Eric who was still in his front position shouted “pull up Wally – I’ve just seen a barrage balloon”. Jimmy quietly informed us we must be over Hull, I’ll use this as a reference check.
By now we had been in the air for 7 1/2 hours and from my calculations our fuel was becoming in short supply. Nobby (wireless operator): “I’m picking up a signal” RT messages from Dishforth and Catfoss but they could see no lights through the fog.
Then Catfoss offered to put a light on for us, they, however, realised that we were very low and put the beam aimed parallel to the ground.
Presumably, because of the light what Wally and I saw was a farmhouse and buildings, we both acted simultaneously, Wally pulled the control unit full back, I slammed the throttle fully open, luckily I had been flying with the engine booster pumps on so there was no delay in the engines producing full power. As the power emerged we somehow managed to lift the aircraft over the buildings we must have been only feet away from the ground because as the
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aircraft pulled up the tail wheel clipped the farm entrance gate, I think that it must be true to say that the beam of light from Catfoss saved our lives.
Wally: “How much fuel have we left?” My reply, ”Very little, what should we do?” Jimmy: “Take course for base and try to land there”. We decided to return to base and as luck would have it Eric caught a brief glimpse of something he recognised followed by a few sodium lights of the outer ring lights and as we circled round Wally said “I think I will go round again as I will then have a better chance of landing”. “No” I said, “we do not have the fuel for that”. So with some quick manoeuvring he managed to bring the aircraft back on course. Unfortunately, as I have said previously there are so many airfields in Lincolnshire that the outer perimeter lights cross over each other and this is what happened to us because we were flying so low we managed to pick up the occasional light expecting it still to be the lights for Ludford. Unfortunately we had crossed over and unbeknown to us were travelling on the lights for Wickenby. On having a glimpse of the runway lights Wally turned in and asked for permission to land thinking it was Ludford, Ludford control said yes but we can’t see you. We landed safely part way down the runway the fog was still very thick. Wally to control: “We have landed but fog too thick to see”. Control: “You have not landed where are you?”. Wally and I looked at each other “Wally we have haven’t we?” Then a further voice came on, this is control Wickenby we think you have landed here “who are you?” Wally told them and asked them to give directions. Leave the aircraft where it is, we think it is still on the runway, we will send transport to collect you when we find you. After 20 minutes a crew bus collected us and eventually dropped us off at the mess where we had a meal and it was Wickenby.
Wickenby was a wartime base similar to Ludford and with similar living accommodation. We were given a nissen hut where we had a cold bed. As we were extremely tired after our ordeal we had a good sleep.
We woke up to a much better day and there on the runway was Lancaster X² just where we abandoned it. I arranged for fuel and a starter trolley to be delivered, prior to refuelling Wally and I started the engines, carried out the pre-flying checks.
The engines fired up and ran for 2 to 3 minutes then began spluttering and then stopped. We had run out of fuel, the decision not to go round again was the correct decision.
Mac our ground engineer and his staff were there to meet us on our return and gave hand signals in order to park up on our parking point. Mac said: “where have you been” and gave me a big hug. “I think I heard the old girl last night and we came running out hoping to see her, I’m sure it was her she has a noise all of her own, a sweeter, quieter noise”. However, when we checked the time we thought that we must have been mistaken because we were sure that she did not have the fuel to last that time. Then we heard that a Lancaster had crashed on the rising ground hear [sic] Louth so we then went to bed – none of our aircraft landed last night, apparently they are scattered across the east side of England as they are from all the other bases round about.
“Is she ok?” Mac asked. “Yes” I say. “You might however check over the engine booster pumps as they were used a lot last night”. Mac: “What’s happened to the cowlings around the tail wheel?” Me: “Oh, give the tail wheel mounting a good inspection Mac”. Mac “Why, what happened, surely Wally didn’t do this on landing, he usually lands on the main wheel first”. Me “No, we hit a gate”. Mac “You what? You hit a gate, why didn’t you open it first!” Mac: “Yes, will check her over and make her ready for tonight if required”. Fortunately the fog again returned with poor visibility, it was 4 days before we flew again and then the operation was Frankfurt.
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We found out later that out of the 483 Lancasters that flew that night 25 were lost over Europe from a combination of attack from night fighters, flak and collisions. Another 29 Lancasters from crashes, which occurred due to the thick fog conditions experienced around the airfield on returning home and trying to land.
Mac also confessed that he and his engineers were completely fed up with the time they had spent working on the carburetting on the engines, ensuring that the fuel taken up by the engines was the least possible and me insisting that they check the volume over and over again until no more could be done.
He now agreed that all the effort made now paid off as if not there was no way that she could have kept flying for that period of time (8 hours 30 minutes) and he said thank you.
Each aircraft carried seven crewmembers, 101 Squadron aircraft carried eight crewmembers. On the attached page there is a paragraph which Len Brooks, our rear gunner told his recollection of the night’s events due to the fog.
Considering the events of that night in a rational way it is difficult to believe what happened could have happened with a satisfactory ending.
We had travelled across Europe direct to Berlin and back escaping enemy fighters, flash lights and enemy ack ack fire without mishaps, only to arrive back in Lincolnshire to find all the eastern side of the UK that the cloud base had almost reached ground level. Base diverted us to Driffield and we found ourselves over Hull and among barrage balloons. We were flying low to try to find some marker which we could relate to such as outer ring lighting or runway lighting, as there were a number of airfields in that area.
Nobby our wireless operator said I’m picking up RT messages from Driffield, Dishforth and Catfoss but they could not see us because of the fog. Catfoss offered to put a light up for us realising we were so low, their beam was almost parallel to the ground. How was it that the beam came on at that precise moment? How was it that we acted so quickly with the control column and obtained such a quick response from the engines? The aircraft must have climbed at 40‑45% because as the power took over the tail wheel caught the gate leading into the farmhouse, meaning that the aircraft was at most four feet from ground (travelling at 150 miles per hour), this meant covering the ground at 88 ft per second. The time we had to clear the farmhouse and building was less than one second, how could that happen?
We know what Len Brooks said, he felt the power from the engines and looked down and saw the chickens in the farmyard scampering away from their coupes denoting that the aircraft had climbed exceptionally quickly. How did the aircraft pull itself up and over a two storey building in such a short distance? What would the consequences of been had the aircraft not made it? How many people were in the house; farmer’s wife and family? How many children? In fact what was their experience of it, did they sleep through it or were they very scared? We don’t know. How many animals were in the steading, was there a milking herd of 20 to 30 cows? The destruction could have been tremendous, as it was no one was injured as far as we know.
We gained some height; Jimmy gave Wally a course back to base. Why was it just at that precise moment that the fog thinned to allow Eric to recognise an object followed by the sodium lights of the base outer circle? Wally saying that he thought he should go round again, I say no we haven’t the fuel, Wally doing an unconventional manoeuvre to bring the aircraft back on course and immediately picking out further lights of the outer ring. However, by this time we had left Ludford outer ring and crossed over onto Wickenby outer ring. We kept on circling round very low to keep lights in sight and luckily spotted the runway lights
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and landing part way along the runway thinking we had landed at base surprised to find it was Wickenby we had landed at, then being told to abandon the plane where it was on the runway. Had we been directed to taxi off the runway and round the perimeter track to a conventional parking area I think the engines would have cut out on the way giving all the crew a complete shock. As it was it was only myself and Wally who realised the seriousness of the situation when we started the engines the following morning.
As I said earlier this was supposed to be a very uneventful operation, in and out of Europe. The average trip to Berlin was around 7 1/2 hours flying time, fuel 1,750 gallons, this I consider could have been estimated at around 7 hours maximum flying time, 1,700 gallons.
I realise that I was always considered better at conserving fuel than most engineers however, how did our aircraft manage to stay airborne for 8 1/2 hours and give out as soon as we touched down. This turned out to be a very exciting but frightening night, how was it that we managed to avoid the various objects we encountered and still managed to bring X² back safely. This was an episode that as a crew we never talked about.
Operation 16
24th/25th December
Target: Berlin
Takeoff time if I remember correctly was early evening in order that we should reach the target before midnight. On board each aircraft was a mix of various bombs, high explosive, incendiaries and delayed timed bombs triggered to explode on Christmas Day.
It was an uneventful night for us, keeping our place on route, seeing some ack-ack activity
aimed at those aircraft, which strayed off route and seeing the occasional night fighter gun tracers streak across the dark sky.
We reached the target on time and Eric was preparing for his bombing run when I noticed that the oil temperature gauge on the outer starboard engine was reading very high. I had to decide the best action, normally on the bombing run I would be on lookout watching for other aircraft approaching us from above or below us and was all the other spare members of crew, it was critical to have maximum look out because of the concentration of aircraft all making for the same point. Many collisions occurred in these situations; damage could also take place by aircraft flying above by dropping their bombs without watching what was below.
I said “Wally, feathering starboard outer”. Wally to Eric: “Cancel bombing run, engine feathered, have adjusted revs on other engine”. Jimmy: “Wally take course so-and-so and go round again”. This was a very difficult and dangerous decision to take as our aircraft would be on an entirely different direction from all other aircraft and exposed to enemy fighters.
We as a crew had previously discussed what we should do in the event of something like this happening, the conclusion was that after flying all this way to the target our first priority was to put our bombs on the target, so any distraction must be remedied first before the bombing run was made. Hitting the target was the only reason for being there. Eric carried out his bombing and the result was that the bombs scored a direct hit, this was confirmed from a self-operating camera situated in the bomb bay and rolled when the bomb doors were opened.
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Afterwards we set off on our return run on three engines but because of limited power instead of holding our 20,000 ft altitude Wally and I decided to make a gradual descent, passing over the enemy coast at 5,000 ft and making our way direct to base on the instruction given by Jimmy our navigator.
The engine proved to be suffering from a faulty gauge, this, however, we had no way of knowing and had it been an engine seize up and possibly resulted in an engine fire, we could have been in serious problems being an easy target for enemy fighters. Wally made a very professional landing on three engines, of course he always did make a good landing in the dark, it was during daylight that he always had a few Kangaroo jumps before rolling along the runway.
Operation 19
2nd/3rd January 1944
Target: Berlin
I would expect that everyone would experience fear on a number of times during their lifetime being frightened is nothing to be ashamed of. Fear can be brought on instantly by such things as an explosion, a fire or such like, then fear can turn to panic. Controlled fear can be felt when one expects that they are likely to die, on the motorway getting caught up in an accident when cars are travelling at speed.
Our crew experienced such emotions once when on operations over Berlin when our Lancaster was hit by ack-ack fire, which exploded very close to us and caused severe damage to the fuselage from shrapnel, also causing loss of all communication. After checking all engines and fuel supplies, and assessing for any further damage I realised that Bill’s (our mid-upper gunner) turret was stationary with no signs of movement from him. I knew that something must be wrong so I touched Wally gave the thumbs up and pointed towards the rear. I collected a portable oxygen bottle and on the way through the aircraft I touched Nobby on the arm and signalled him to follow me. True enough Bill was not in his turret, with the light from my torch we found him trying to open the fuselage rear door and in his panic he had no parachute with him. He seemed very strong and determined to leave the aircraft. The only way to prevent this happening was to hit him with the oxygen bottle. We were able to man handle him back to the rest bed. When giving him the oxygen bottle he began sucking
it like a baby, we made him comfortable with a blanket then returned to our positions.
This episode had taken over 30 minutes at probably the most dangerous period of any operation over the target with lights being shone from the torch and loss of lookout crewmembers (mid-gunner and myself). Luckily the aircraft was not too badly damaged between 40 to 50 holes along the fuselage.
In early January Bill reported sick, which meant that we required a mid upper gunner, Dave who had lost his crew was looking to join a new crew, so he joined our crew and flew with us until we completed our tour of operations.
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Operation 28
25th-26th February 1944
Target: Augsburg
I have little recognition of what happened on this trip, it however was of great importance because this was the first time on any operation that Lancasters had been fitted with 2 x 0.5 guns in the rear turret instead of the 4 x 0.303 guns. Furthermore it was only 101 Squadron who had them.
These turrets were made by a small local company from Gainsborough and designed in conjunction with 101 Squadron’s technicians; this gave the Lancaster a much greater firepower.
At briefing it was announced that six aircraft, which included our X², were fitted with 0.5 guns and that crews should take the initiative and attack fighters rather than take evasive action.
All I remember of what must have been relatively quiet was that the 101 Lancasters that were carrying the new turrets and firing at the fighters, it was the fighters that were taking evasive action and as the fighters were unaware that only a few aircraft were fitted with these much more effective guns. Over the next few operations there was much less fighter activity which was much less effective.
On a number of operations as well as dropping window we also dropped leaflets, the leaflets were typed in German and gave information as to how the war was progressing (propaganda information).
All operations were usually carried out at twenty thousand feet plus for Lancasters, other types of aircraft would bomb at slightly lower heights because of the thin air at above 10,000 ft. Oxygen had to be taken through masks and also because of the altitude temperatures could drop to as low as -20o, so much so if you touched any metal part of the fuselage with your bare hand it could stick to the metal and because of condensation one had to free the ice from your mask frequently.
Operation 29
1st-2nd March 1944
Target: Stuttgart (8 hours 10 minutes)
During the 1930s and 40s the winters could be very severe with long periods of frost and snow. March 1944 commenced with heavy and prolonged snowfall resulting in Ludford runway being covered in over 8 ft of snow which had to be cleared before flying could continue. At that time there was no heavy snow clearing equipment available, only the normal tractors that were on site, therefore to move the snow every person on the station not on duty was put on snow clearing. The aircraft standing points were cleared first so that ground crews could operate then the task of clearing the main runway commenced spades and shovels were the tools of the day. Generally I think everyone enjoyed it with plenty of high jinks and laughing, many snowmen being made along the runway edges.
Operations were ordered for that night 1st March therefore the runway had to be ready for takeoff by 16:00 hours. It was crucial that 101 Squadron was available because we were the only Squadron operating CIGAR a jamming device which prevented German radar from
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contacting their fighters to give them instructions. Bomber Command refused to fly without 101 Squadron’s aircraft.
It was determined that the runway would not be fully cleared, however, if four hundred yards were ready aircraft could take off with a light fuel load, fly to the neighbouring airfield Wickenby, fully fuel and bomb up there.
Briefing took place mid afternoon; flying was laid on for 16:00 hours. We were the first plane off without trouble, a further two followed, the fourth didn’t make it on the cleared runway part, ploughed into the snow and skidded off the runway closing it. This meant that four of 101 Squadron’s aircraft carrying CIGAR were available. On the operation the aircraft were spread out along the route covering the period of the raid. (ie approximately five minutes apart)
Our aircraft was fuelled and bombed-up at Wickenby and took off among the planes from Wickenby. The operation as far as we were concerned was quiet, with few fighters, no troubles. We bombed on time and returned for home crossing the Dutch coast at around 10,000 ft, then continued to base Wickenby, then de-briefed, had breakfast and then to bed. We stayed at Wickenby for two more days before we could return to Ludford.
On our return our Squadron Commander told us that we had completed our tour of operations and since the squadron moved to Ludford we were the only crew that had achieved that, so he didn’t want to test our luck any further.
The following two days were spent testing the new rear turret with the 2 x .5 guns under various flying conditions, including high level flying at 25,000+ ft and it proved to be equally good under all conditions.
Five days later we all went on leave, this was the break up of the crew after which none of us met again, during the war that’s how things happened.
Before going on leave I went to see Mac to tell him the situation. “Can’t you stay?” he asked “where are you being posted to?”. “I think I may be posted to Lindholme as an instructor”. “Why can’t you stay here then and instruct here? I will miss you, you’ve taught me more about carburettors and how they work. I know I told you you were a pain in the neck to my chaps, you demanding that they check and monitor the engines performance to obtain maximum fuel savings. I will continue to carry out your instructions and to see if I can help save other crew’s lives as we have just recently experienced on X²”.
“If you do a further operation tour, come back here and I will try to look after your aircraft again for you, all the best, good flying”.
Operation Highlights
I have highlighted only a few of our more exciting operations, many of which have been written about and described by other aircrew presumably because these were the operations which for some reason caught the headlines and probably they were the crew members which survived.
It must be remembered, however, that every operation had its dangers. The fact that the aircraft flew over enemy territory was a dangerous place to be, with it being usually in darkness and with anywhere up to 600 aircraft plus on many occasions, all making for the
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same target within a time limit of between 30 to 60 minutes alone had its dangers and problems.
When I say that we had a quiet trip this usually meant that our crew had no major problems and every member carried out his duties as an individual and as a team member. This did not mean that minor problems did not occur such as the rear turret freezing up causing problems for Len (rear gunner) from severe cold and lack of visibility or wireless operator loosing [sic] contact with base or even Wally and myself with ice forming on the wing edges from travelling through cloud. On one occasion the whole crew suffering because of being caught up in a thunderstorm, the aircraft being thrown about like a toy, falling immediately to 1,000 ft and back up again, something that no one had any control over.
Cold was a further concern; the temperature could fall as low as -20 to 30oC below zero. The metal of the aircraft if you touched it with your bare hand, the skin could stick to it therefore gloves had always to be worn. There was warm air circulated throughout the aircraft this was controlled from a duct situated near to the wireless operator’s station and at times should he become very warm would turn it down.
Oxygen masks were also worn as above ten thousand feet oxygen was necessary and it was a continual task to have to remove the ice from your mask, as it built up due to the moisture created from breathing. As you can imagine the gunner being isolated from the main cabin area suffered even more.
The enemy could also cause a few problems on route. Fighters had an advantage over the heavier, slower bombers and the fact that bombers had four engines creating a fair amount of exhaust flame and light made it easy for the fighters to see us. Generally if a fighter was spotted by the gunners in time it was safest to take evasive action.
The action would come say from the rear gunner ‘fighter 3 o’clock approaching’ following ‘dive, dive to port’. The skipper would immediately throw the aircraft into a dive and do a corkscrew manoeuvre, regaining back on his normal course. This generally worked; it was the fighter which was not spotted by the lookouts which caused the problem as they would normally attack from below the rear of the aircraft strafing the fuselage with bullets.
Search lights. The normal searchlight could be a problem for aircraft at lower levels and were situated around most towns, cities and industrial sites, however, there was another much more dangerous blue searchlight, much brighter which could penetrate to much higher altitudes and operated in conjunction with anti aircraft guns. Being caught by one of these was an unfortunate experience and usually resulted in severe damage or the loss of the aircraft. We on one occasion suffered this experience, the blue light locked on to us and no matter whatever we did it was impossible, after about three minutes Wally decided to put the aircraft into a controlled dive to loose [sic] height, as we did so a Halifax aircraft which was operating at a much lower height came across our track. The anti aircraft guns operating in conjunction with the searchlight opened up and the Halifax just blew up. We had a lucky escape.
As I said some anti aircraft guns operated in conjunction with searchlights, however, the bulk of them were situated around towns and cities and created a heavy barrack in order to keep the bombers from bombing at low levels, the result could be seen and occasionally heard, and on one occasion over Amiens felt.
Returning from Modane on a bright moonlit night without warning this small unit of guns opened up and a shell exploded very close to us, fortunately not causing any injuries to the crew. Shrapnel caused damage to the fuel lines causing a leak in the pipe and holes appeared
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in the fuselage, and along the wings and side windscreen of the aircraft. We made an emergency landing at Tangmere in South England and on inspection found over 100 various size holes along the length of the fuselage and wings.
The piece of shrapnel that hit the windscreen had entered through the starboard side unbeknown to me had ripped through my flying jacket sleeve and gone out through the front window, again, lady luck was with us.
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Log Book and
Operations Record Book
(Battle Orders)
Every crew member kept a log book showing every date, time and flying details carried out.
I have copied some pages which correspond to copies of the Squadron’s battle orders, referring to operations 14, 15, 16 and 17 as detailed in my log book.
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[page from authors logbook]
[underlined] TOTAL FLYING HOURS NOVEMBER 101 SDN [/underlined]
[underlined] DAY [/underlined] 3 hrs 30 mins
[underlined] NIGHT [/underlined] 39 hrs 45 mins
[underlined] TOTAL 43 hrs 15 mins [/underlined]
DECEMBER
16 – Lanc III X2 – WO EVANS – FE – 14 OPS – [underlined] BERLIN [/underlined] QUIET TRIP – HEAVY LOSSES – FOG ON RETURN LANDED AT WICKENBY – 8 hrs 30 mins.
20 – Lanc III X2 – WO EVANS – FE– 15 OPS – [underlined] FRANKFURT [/underlined] MANY FIGHTER FLARES AROUND TARGET AREA – 5 hrs 50 mins.
24 – Lanc III X2 – WO EVANS – FE– 16 OPS – [underlined] BERLIN [/underlined] REAR TURRET U/S STRB OUTER FEATHERED – 7 hrs 10 mins.
28 – Lanc III X2 – WO EVANS – FE– 17 OPS – [underlined] BERLIN [/underlined] 6 hrs 40 mins.
[underlined] TOTAL FLYING HOURS [/underlined]
[underlined] DAY [/underlined] 0 hrs 0 mins
[underlined] NIGHT [/underlined] 28 hrs 10 mins
[underlined] TOTAL 28 hrs 10 mins [/underlined]
[underlined] DECEMBER 101 SDN [/underlined]
[signature] OC ‘C’ FLT.
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[indecipherable page]
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[indecipherable page]
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[indecipherable page]
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[indecipherable page]
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CHAPTER G
CHRISTMAS 1943
I always thought of Christmas as a time for giving and receiving, a time of joy and happiness, a time for families to come and meet and join in the happiness of the event. It was of course a time to remember, to consider ones relationship with family, friends and others and how relationships could be improved. Christmas 1943 was different; it was a time of anxiety and many other emotions, anxiety not only for the crewmembers but more so for the folks at home.
Before joining the RAF we lived in a small village where everyone knew each other. There was three of us in the forces, my older sister Jean, my brother Sandy and myself, living at home with my mother our two younger sisters Betty and Mary. So quite often my mother would be stopped in the street and asked how one of us was getting along, furthermore she had received a telegram stating that I had not returned from an operation and that further information would be forwarded when received (one must remember that at that time (1943) telephones were a luxury so the only method of communication was by the Post Office. Christmas 1943 was also the first Christmas that we had not all been at home).
The ground crews also had similar feelings when waiting for their aircraft to return from an operation and then the relief when they saw the aircraft landing and taxiing in.
There was also a period of what today would be known as pressure, then it was just part of the job although some individuals did suffer from depression and for some this ended their flying career. All crew members had to be physically and mentally fit to survive.
It was early morning on Christmas Day 1943, we as a crew had just returned from an operation, the target Berlin. After debriefing we arrived for breakfast at around 6:30 hours, the atmosphere in the dining room was best described as noisy as you would expect from 150 young men aged between 19 and 23 years old, until you really looked around and saw one, two even three empty tables then the atmosphere changed to a more sober one.
Christmas dinner was being served at 13:00 hours, this gave us time for a few hours sleep before arriving back at the mess around 12:50 hours. The meal was good and all seemed in high spirits. We finished eating and were enjoying a cigarette when the duty officer arrived, he slowly walked up to the bar and turned the Toby Jug sitting there towards the wall, this was our first indication that operations may be on, slowly the mess began to empty as the air crew members began to leave.
It was a cold but pleasant afternoon as I hurried along the perimeter road thinking of past Christmases and remembering the simple things, the pink or white sugar mice, an apple and orange possibly a few sweets, we never had many presents, hand knitted socks or gloves, then my thoughts were interrupted by seeing coming towards me a tractor pulling a bomb trolley with a mixed load of bombs on board, and further to my left I could see a fuel bowser topping up a Lancaster. Normally the aircraft were filled with 1,200 to 1,400 gallons of fuel
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sufficient for a five or six hour trip, if the trip was going to be longer then the aircraft were topped up.
On arrival at our Lancaster X² Mac, our ground engineer, was there standing in front looking at the aircraft, I said ‘”what are you doing?” Thinking he answered “isn’t she beautiful, I don’t want her to fly tonight. I am the happiest sergeant on the Squadron. Before I arrived at Ludford I had been with 101 Squadron for 18 months and during that time I had lost seven aircraft under my control. Since being here and in charge of X² and you as the flight engineer after five months I still have the same aircraft. Do you know how many operations you have flown in X²?” “No I don’t “, I replied. “Eleven and six of which was to the big city Berlin and we are still going strong.” “Let’s go and carry out ourground checks”, I said.
We had just finished when Wally our pilot arrived. “I thought I would find you here” he said. “I thought we could carry out a test flight and check out the hydraulics on the undercarriage?” “Yes I have fixed them” said Mac. “Let’s go” said Wally, “coming” I said to Mac. He hesitated then said “I haven’t got a parachute”. “Neither have we” I said.
We fired up the engines, taxied out, got the green light from control and were airborne. I then vacated my seat and let Mac have it. As I checked all the fuel and engine gauges etc we climbed to around 300 hundred feet, flew in a south west direction and as we banked to starboard there standing on the ridge was the magnificent building Lincoln Cathedral with the city spread out below it. We were privileged to see it yet also very humbled and it seemed than that what we were doing was right and that this was a ‘just war’ and had to be won. I touched Mac on the shoulder and pointed down. I’m sure he was brushing a tear away.
Ten minutes later we had landed with everything ok including the hydraulics as we closed the rear door of the Lancaster X² we hugged each other and I’m sure we all said a short prayer, at least I did.
[inserted] [Christmas dinner menu RAF Ludford Magna Sergeants Mess 1943 [/inserted]
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Briefing was scheduled for 19:00 hours. All two hundred of us where [sic] there on time and the Group Captain arrived and slipped up onto the platform, the wing commander brought us all to attention. I noticed that the curtains covering the map on the wall stayed closed “I’ll be brief” said the Group Captain, “all flying has been cancelled for tonight because of severe weather conditions over Europe. I also wish to thank you all for the maximum effort and success, which has been put in during the past five months. Good show and good flying from now on. I will let you go to continue your Christmas celebrations, have a good time, good night and god bless”. Mac got his way and X² did not fly on Christmas night.
Briefing was scheduled for 19.00 hours and as I said all flying was cancelled, this only lasted for 15 minutes, after which all the members of the 25 crews that would have flown, along with all the other necessary ground staff support teams necessary to service such an operation (all in 350‑400 young people) were now free to do as they wished, however as by now it was around 19.30 the choice was limited, retire to the mess or the local pubs.
As we the crew were now making our way back from the briefing room, Norman (our wireless operator) announced that he was visiting the pub to see if they had any beer “Are you coming?” “No” I said “I’ll make my way back to the mess”. Bill (our mid upper gunner) said “I’ll join you for a beer”.
The technical section of the squadron was situated on the south side of the main road which ran from west to east through the village from Market Rasen to Louth. The living accommodation and messes were located on the north of the road.
On reaching the main road instead of crossing and carrying on up the lane to the mess for some reason I turned right and continued along the main road, as it was extremely dark walking in the centre of the road as this was the safest place. As I continued I heard music and singing coming from the pub on the right everyone seemed to be happy and enjoying themselves, further on and on the left was the other pub ‘The Black Bull’. I could hear footsteps coming and going, but could not recognise the people, here also was the sounds of people enjoying themselves.
A little further along the road on the left stood the small church, as I approached I could hear the organ music and the congregation singing carols. I remember thinking if I was thinking of attending church I should have dressed. I was in battle dress and should be in uniform, however to return to the billet and change it would make me too late for the service.
I found myself at the church entrance I looked through the entrance hall, I could see a chink of light coming from under the heavy door. I pushed the door open and heard the creaking noise, on entering I stood for a few seconds to allow my eyes to become accustomed to the light, a few members of the congregation hearing the door turned to see who entered, as I moved across to take a place in the pews an elderly gentlemen from the other side came across squeezed me on the shoulder gave me his hymn book “we are on verse three god bless” and returned to his place. The church was fairly full mostly of elderly people man and female with a few children, all were singing and appeared to be enjoying it, the service was not a format which I knew, however I felt good to be involved and somehow very pleased to be there. All those in church appeared to believe in what they were singing and doing and further more believed that all the service people on the base were doing what was right and that they all had their full support that the war was a righteous war and a war that had to be won.
At the end of the service I quickly left the church and made my way back along the main road. I was somehow excited so much so that I remember running all the way and turning
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right until I reached the mess. There were a number of people sitting around having a drink and/or reading. A colleague was reading the picture post magazine which had an article covering 101 Squadron. When I asked him if I could have a look, he said “I’ll keep it for you”. On the centre two pages was a photo of a Lancaster with staff standing around and on the wings etc, inspecting the photo closely I noticed that it was not a 101 Squadron Lancaster as it did not show the special aerials to work ABC. (The programme had been arranged unfortunately while we (our crew) were on leave and a Lancaster from Wickenby had been used).
I checked to see if the rations had come in and found a good selection of cigarettes were available Woodbine, Captain, Players and Gold Flake and there was also some chocolate.
The dining room was closed, on a trestle table at the end was a collection of bread, cheese and butter. I took a few rounds of bread and a chunk of cheese and made my way back to the billet, on arrival I found Wally, Eric, and Jimmy were there and they had a good fire going, making the chimney almost red hot. They were sitting reading and asked “where did you get to?” “Church” I said “you should have said I would have come with you” said Eric, “I didn’t know, I brought some bread and cheese for toast if you want it”. “Thank you” said Wally “have a mug of tea, the teapot will still be hot on the stove”. “I called in at the mess they have cigarettes and chocolate in. Only a letter for Bill which I have brought back. He and Norman were going to the pub. Where is Len (our rear gunner)?” “Oh, he has gone to try to hitch a lift home to Grimsby, remember if opps are on tomorrow give him a ring to let him know so that he can return, I have his telephone number” said Wally. “Do you want something to read?” asked Eric. “No” I said, “I think I will turn in and catch up with some sleep”.
This 1943 Christmas was at least different from all previous ones and part of my life which I will never forget.
The next time we flew was on 30th December and then again the following night on 31st December both operations were to Berlin. Mac continued to service X² and over the next 3 1/2 months we completed a further 13 operations to complete our first tour.
We didn’t always bring the aircraft home in the same condition as we started, however, we always brought it back and Mac and his crew always managed to repair it and have it serviced ready for the next trip.
We completed our tour in late April 1944 and the crew were all split up and we went our separate ways all as instructors. I joined the staff at Lindholme as a flight engineer instructor. In June D‑Day arrived, we were again temporarily called up as reserved in case the invasion went wrong, fortunately all went well. I was later transferred to Bottesford then Cottesmore and ended up at North Luffenham where by now VE Day had arrived in June 1945. We were again crewed up to join the Tiger Force to operate against Japan. Luckily for us VJ Day came much sooner than expected with the use of the hydrogen bomb being used on Japan, which stopped us from being posted to the Far East.
I stayed at North Luffenham until demobbed. Lincoln Cathedral played an important role in our lives as we used to use it as a landmark when returning early in the morning from operations and provided weather conditions were good, when we saw the cathedral we knew we were safely home again. Sadly Lancaster X² only flew two more operations after we finished and was lost over Mailly le Camp, France on the 3rd/4th May 1944.
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CHAPTER H
HEAVY CONVERSION UNITS INSTRUCTOR
LINDHOLME
BOTTESFORD
COTTESMORE
NORTH LUFFENHAM
After Operations
After completing our tour of operations with 101 Squadron in April 1944 the crew went on leave for around ten days and while on leave I received information informing me to report to Lindholme on such a date.
Lindholme was 1656HCU the conversion unit, which I had reported to prior to being crewed up and joining 101 Squadron. Ludford Magna as I had said previously was an airfield specially constructed as a utility base to carry on the war against Germany. All buildings, temporary constructions accommodation nissen huts were situated in small groups situated around the unit site.
Nissen hut accommodation for up to eight persons situated in the wilds half a mile from mess, flight units ablution block 20 yards away with washing and shower facilities, no heating (as you can imagine it was very cold in winter). The accommodation had a stove in the centre of the hut with a chimney, which went up through the roof, used coal or anthracite as fuel and required lighting daily. These huts were extremely hot in summer with regular visitors such as field mice, ants and earwigs. In winter they were extremely cold and damp with condensation running down interior sides and dripping on beds etc.
Lindholme was a peacetime permanent station which had all the niceties available, good roads comfortable, centrally heated one-person accommodation with all mod cons including dining room with waitress service. This to me was the biggest difference between Ludford and Lindholme.
Lindholme then was a conversion unit where pilots and crews had completed their initial training on smaller aircraft then upgraded to the heavy, four engine bombers such as Halifax and Lancaster. Lindholme trained Lancaster crews; it was here where additional crewmembers such as gunners and flight engineers joined in.
Having completed a successful tour of operations my role now was to introduce flight engineers who had completed their year long course, at possibly Blackpool and St Annes’s as up to this time these trainees had only briefly seen the interior of a Lancaster, far less done any flying.
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Unfortunately because of the shortage of Lancaster bombers arriving to the squadron, the conversion units such as Lindholme were still using Halifaxs [sic], this did not cause too much of a problem for the other six members of the crew (except the engineers) as it was a heavy bomber and the handling regarding flying and landing was similar to the Lancaster giving the pilot the experience of flying a large, heavy plane.
The engineer’s role was the same on all heavy bombers so the experience gained was still valid and it still gave him the necessary confidence. The difference being some of the instruments and dials on the Halifax were in different positions to that of a Lancaster. The crews would have a period of familiarisation on reaching the squadron before finally carrying out operations.
Life was so much more comfortable working on a base with all mod cons as expected for the 1940s.
My role along with others was to aid the trainee engineers to familiarise themselves with the aircraft inside and out, and when flying with their new crew, introduce the engineer to his role such as to the large number of switches and dials on the main panel and also the instruments on the engineer’s panel.
One of the main tasks was how to change flying on the various fuel tanks safely, the other how to feather an engine if required without causing any problems, how they as a person fitted in with the other crew members. Therefore while the pilot was under instruction with a pilot instructor mainly on what we called circuits and bumps, which was taking off, flying around and landing again. I would also fly and show the engineer and make sure he was confident and safe in his execution of his duties.
The time varied depending on how quickly the pilot took to prove himself capable and the instructor pilot was satisfied that he could safely fly and land such a plane, this could take anything from a few hours to many hours.
I used the experience, which I had gained over the past year of flying many hours in different conditions to make sure that these young operators had a better chance of completing a successful tour than I had. I tried to emphasise on them the need to be fully committed to their job of making sure they knew their role and capable of carrying out all the safety checks which should be carried out by themselves even although someone has said that they have done so, that they used the engines efficiently and monitored the fuel available as economically as possible. I had prepared a schedule, which if used in conjunction with the gauges and filled in every fifteen minutes in flight or so gave instant information if any problem had or were occurring to the fuel position, when action could be taken.
Lindholme being a permanent station was well equipped and had space available for each crew members to have their own section huts which proved most usual [sic] and I spent a good part of my time being available to talk with these trainee engineers, discussing any problems or whatever.
In any month I spent on average around 50 hours in actual flying time either day or night flying. This was made up of flying with possibly 10 different pilots on 26 to 30 different flights. The flights were generally around the airfield at fairly low altitude, up to two hundred feet carrying out circuits and landings with pilot, instructor and conversion crews. We therefore did not carry parachutes; this also gave the trainee crews a little more confidence to think that we had confidence in them.
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In June 1944 two days after D-Day I attended an instructors course at St Albans, South Wales lasting for four weeks, which proved most instructive, enjoyable and created confidence with ample time for self expression. After that I took the opportunity to attend any other courses, which became available such as a course on jet engines – something for the future, update course on the improved Merlin engines coming into service and a short course on Stromberg carburettors. The RAF at this time was looking to the future and on the levels and quality of staff they were likely to require once the war ended, but with the peace still to be kept for years on. At present most if not all of their engineers and a station or base engineer were all from senior ground staff, so when I was asked if I would wish to embark on such a course (the course was quite complex covering all aspects of engineering ground and in flight) I said I would.
After quite a lot of time on reading (time which I had) I eventually sat the paper and was very happy with the results 89% success, this was of course only part of the paper an oral examination was also required which up until I was released from the RAF I had not taken, however, these showed on my records.
1668 Heavy Conversion Unit,
Bottesford
After leaving 101 Squadron I spent a short period at Lindholme as a Flight Engineer Instructor before moving to Bottesford. Bottesford was another war time base similar to Ludford Magna and from where Lancasters also flew, however, in early 1944 it had become surplus to requirements.
The living accommodation instead of being Nissen huts were constructed of fabricated wooden framed units. Being available it was used as a holding base for American troops waiting for D Day resulting in the accommodation being left in a dreadful state.
During August 1944 1668 Heavy Conversion Unit took the base over and myself and few others were in the advance party. On arrival we found it difficult to find accommodation suitable to live in however, after a few days of hard work managed to make progress with repairs. Among the early arrivals were two air gunners both of whom had completed their tour of operations. Jock on Wellingtons and Jack on Lancasters. The three of us became really good friends for all the time we were on the base. In fact, Jack is still a good friend, he now lives in North Cirney Nr Cirencester and we have a card from him each Christmas.
The base was situated midway between Newark and Grantham on the left, half a mile off the main A1 road, walking or cycling were the only methods of transport for getting around the base or for travelling further afield.
We had been at Bottesford for just over a week when this night the three of us decided to have a ride around, on reaching the main road instead of turning left for Long Bennington and Newark we turned right towards Grantham. After cycling along the A1 road for about three miles we came across a signpost, which read Marston and Dry Doddington so we decided to go left and see where the lane would take us. After a mile we came upon a nice looking pub on the corner of the crossroads called the Thorold Arms where we decided to call and have a beer this being Friday evening. The pub was open, furthermore this was the first time that I had entered a pub since I joined 101 Squadron, as I had promised myself that so long as I was flying on operations I would not have a drink.
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Training at Bottesford got under way relatively soon and by early September crews for conversion to Lancasters were arriving in number. The routine was very similar to that at Lindholme.
Crews arrived without any experience of the Lancaster and it was our role as instructors to train the flight engineers to a standard where he was competent and safe to act on his own, and to pass on my experience which would make him feel more confident, while other staff members were doing the same for the pilots and the other members of the crew.
Bottesford as I said previously was a base built around 1942 to a standard sufficient to allow Bomber Command to carry the war to the enemy, where heavy bombers such as the Lancaster could operate from. Carrying a bomb load to most destinations necessary and to cause severe damage to their war effort.
From the staff viewpoint it was a complete change from the comfort offered by a peacetime base with all the mod cons, even including waitress service in the dining halls.
Bottesford was however a very happy unit where, so long as the training and flying was carried out on time to a very high standard, all was well.
It was becoming clear that with D Day over with the Allied Troops now moving across Europe as expected and on course, that victory in Europe was only a matter of time with the need for heavy bomber operations becoming limited. This meant that the training for crews could be relaxed and extended, therefore to ensure the trainee flight engineers interest and enthusiasm was kept alive. Two other instructors and myself introduced a short course on engine maintenance, this course lasted three weeks, the purpose of which was to strip down an engine completely, then reassemble it so that it would fire up and run. We had available to us a Lancaster, which had recently run off the runway on landing and was declared not airworthy. The four Merlin engines were still in good condition; this meant that with four engines and four trainees working on each we could entertain sixteen students.
The course proved a great success and it was felt that all those involved had afterwards a better understanding of the engines, which could possibly save their lives in the future.
As the weeks passed three of us, Jock, Jack and myself, had more free time and when on an evening we decided to leave camp we usually ended up at the Thorold Arms. By now we knew many of the locals as well as the family and were being brought into the evening events, such as playing darts. There were a number of really good dart players and eventually we, along with Sylvia, also became an excellent partnership.
Five months on. Christmas 1944 was a completely different Christmas to that of 1943, by now Sylvia and myself were seeing quite a lot of each other and I was still on duty over Christmas, I was asked to spend Christmas day with the family, we had a lovely time. A few days later I was on leave and travelled north to spend New Year with my family in Aberdour.
Our friendship blossomed and we were spending more and more time together and with Sylvia’s family and friends. Sylvia had a brother and three sisters; Roy was the oldest followed by Eileen then Sylvia, with Gert and Brenda the two younger sisters. Roy was also in the RAF on air-sea rescue and spent most of his time overseas.
Eileen was on munitions working in Grantham; Sylvia also worked in Grantham in ladies hosiery. Gert worked in a bakery with Brenda still at school.
In the evenings when the pub was open Sylvia helped serve in the bar with her father and mother Gert usually at weekends. During early 1945 flying at the base continued smoothly
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and generally without incident. We had one scary incident during night flying practise, an enemy light bomber managed to evade the radar controls and came in along the runway following one of the Lancasters and dropped cluster bombs along the length of the runway. This did cause some excitement as these bombs could explode from the vibration of the landing aircraft. Fortunately the runway was cleared without any injuries.
The other excitement was when one of the Lancasters, which we had just received from squadron required an air test to check its airworthiness before being put to use as a training aircraft. One of the staff pilots and myself as engineer was asked to carry out the test which we did, doing all the usual flying and checking the various instruments and controls. We decided to put it in a downward power dive, at first all was fine and the controls responded perfectly then it happened the port outer propeller began speeding up. No matter what we tried it continued to increase then it disappeared, the two on the inner engines seemed all right, the propeller in the starboard reached well above the normal speed but stayed in place. We quickly reduced our speed and dive, and made a quick return to base and landed on two engines, the aircraft did not pass its airworthy test. We found out later that it was a fault with the balance plates on the, then, new four paddle bladed propellers.
I, by now, had spent eight months as an instructor resting from the pressures of flying on operations and I knew that in the near future it may be necessary to do a further thirty operations, either across Europe or possibly against Japan. A few of us were thinking along the same lines and discussing the possibilities with others of forming crews.
There were two staff pilots on the base who were seriously thinking to the future, with whom I would have been happy to fly with and to this end we took every opportunity of carrying out test flights and then engaging in some low flying, which we expected would be necessary for the future especially if the enemy were the Japanese.
I increased my link training and spent considerable amounts of time keeping fit and up-to-date on all aspects of flying which could be beneficial to our survival. There was suggestion floating around that a new Tiger Force was being formed, which was likely to operate against Japan.
The river Trent gave an excellent corridor to practise low flying as there was at that time no obstacles such as power lines, telephone lines or high buildings to restrict flying. The river banks were relatively high with a river width in excess of 130 ft where the Lancaster wingspan was 101 ft and could easily be tucked in below the level of the banks, great flying, great excitement and very satisfying.
The war in Europe was progressing well, the need for heavy bombers was becoming less and with now limited targets. In mid April a few of us were informed that it was almost 12 months since we last flew on operations and it would now be necessary to do a further tour, more information would be available shortly.
On 8th May 1945 the Prime Minister, Sir Winston Churchill, announced the termination of the war in Europe to the whole country and his speech was broadcast over the station Tannoy system at 3pm. The afternoon was then devoted to sports activities and there were parties in all messes during the evening.
I was not on base, this was the date selected on which I was to be presented with my DFM at Buckingham Palace by King George VI. My mum and Aunty Kate travelled down from Edinburgh on the overnight train in the early hours of the morning; I joined the train at Grantham. As usual it was standing room only so I met up with my mum and Aunty on the platform at Kings Cross station. If I remember correctly the investitures commenced at
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11am so we had time for breakfast then made our way to the palace. There were many RAF personnel there as well as family members to watch the ceremony and see their relatives presented with their medals. We were all greeted on arrival and then informed of the procedure.
The King seemed very thin and poorly, dressed in an Admiral’s Naval uniform. After shaking hands with him and him pinning the medal on my uniform he asked me which squadron I flew with. I told him 101 Squadron, he replied “One of the elite I believe, good flying”.
We were out of the palace by 1:30pm, by this time the news that the war in Europe was over was known and London was beginning to fill up with people. Everyone was in party mood, singing and dancing or just walking around. London had been under blackout conditions since the start of the war in September 1939. Today things were different all the dark days were over; the people of London were showing their joy. Every light possible, which could be lit, was lit and the streets looked most inviting, it was an amazing sight. My mother and Aunt Kate were booked to stay the night in London so I saw them to their hotel then I made my way back through the crowds to Kings Cross and caught the train back to Grantham. What a day to be in London, VE Day the 8th May 1945 celebrating the end of the war in Europe. There was a real sense of relief and everyone was there to have a good time and to party.
The train was again packed, mainly with service personnel making their way home on leave. I arrived at Grantham around 5pm and from the station phoned the Thorold Arms expecting to speak to Sylvia. She and Eileen had gone to the church service and not yet returned so it was Sylvia’s dad that answered, he said he would tell Sylvia on their return that I had arrived in Grantham. It was agreed that Sylvia would come and meet me cycling on one bicycle and pushing the second for me to ride back to Marston, however, on her travelling along the A1 road towards Grantham she met a person she knew cycling from Grantham. She stopped and asked him if he had seen an airman walking and he said no. Previously to this an RAF vehicle had passed Sylvia with RAF personnel on board, thinking that I had thumbed a lift and that I would be dropped off at the road end leading to Marston she decided to turn back. As I was not waiting at the road end she then thought that I must have decided to go back to Bottesford, collect my own bicycle and return to Marston later.
Sometime later Gert happened to look out of the window at the Thorold Arms and shouted to Sylvia “Jock is coming down the road”. Sylvia, thinking she was having her on didn’t believe her until she herself looked out the window. My other pals Jock and Jack had already arrived and all including the locals were having a great time. As the evening progressed and the drink continued to flow a game started where the aim was to collect as many possible pieces of other peoples [sic] ties by cutting off the ends, this was all taken in good fun until one person who had just been given a new tie for his birthday, that day, by his wife and she was not amused at seeing it being cut to pieces.
The end of the war in Europe sealed the fate of most of the war time built heavy bomber bases, they had completed their usefulness for which they were built, that in giving Bomber Command the opportunity required to take the war to the enemy, which they had accomplished very successfully.
Food on the stations was very good with a real selection most of the time. Sundays was the time when the menu suffered as most of the catering staff had time off and tea was usually laid out to help yourself, mostly cheese, bread and butter, and possibly a few cakes. This possibly was the reason why on Mondays the sweet was often bread and butter pudding, something I didn’t like then and even now when on a menu I still shy away from.
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This was the time that Petula Clarke was often on the radio, in fact every lunch time she recorded a song especially for RAF Conversion Unit 1668.
Bottesford was no exception for within six weeks the complete Conversion Unit was closed down and I, along with others, moved to new surroundings to the peacetime base of Cottesmore where all the staff enjoyed the luxuries of a permanent built unit. Working conditions within the base were very relaxed, with all enjoying a five day week when most weekends were free unless on duty. Flying hours, however, as far as I was concerned still reached between 33 to 44 hours each month.
During June onwards, now that the war was over in Europe, it was still most important that the peoples of Europe, friends as well as enemy, that Britain controlled the airspace and continued to show this by having continued aircraft flying in the skies around.
Certain trips were carried out in order to show ground staff, who had carried out such an excellent job in sometimes terrible conditions to keep the bases and aircraft serviceable along the last five years the opportunity to see for themselves what conditions across Europe looked like now. These trips were given various names: the Ruhr Express, Cooks Tour, Happy Valley Express, each lasted five to six hours flying time where up to 12 to 15 personnel were on board plus the crew of four.
I, as Flight Engineer, was on a good number of such trips. They were enjoyed by most and showed the devastation which had occurred to many of the towns and cities across Europe, in vast areas which had received attention from bombing by the RAF followed by the destruction caused by the Armies fighting their way to Berlin since D Day.
The destruction was terrible with many large areas just a pile of rubble or shells of buildings still standing. The thing which impressed me most was the number of churches and round towers such as commercial chimneys which still stood.
Such a trip would cover from a base to Ijmunden, Amsterdam, Arnhem, Nijmegen, Wesell Dortmund, Essen, Duisburg, Düsseldorf then back to base. Or base to Cologne, Bonn, Aachem Rotterdam then home.
Cottesmore
Cottesmore was situated between Grantham and Stamford, four miles west of the A1 road near the village of Ashwell and six miles north west of Oakham, so our move was only a few minutes flying time. There was much movement between stations, which gave the opportunity of visiting different locations which we heard about but not visited, such as Drem in East Lothian, Ternhill and Shawbury in Shropshire, and many others which helped to make life more enjoyable.
Being stationed close to Stamford and the main road north it wasn’t difficult to hitch a ride or at worst catch a bus or train to Grantham.
Our stay at Cottesmore was fairly short lived; we then moved on to North Luffenham another of the pre war built stations with all the usual mod cons. North Luffenham is situated south west of Stamford, one mile off the A6121 road. Before leaving Cottesmore I had confirmation that we were crewed up and to expect instructions shortly regarding a further tour of operations in the Far East but before that certain procedures would have to be carried out, such as doctors reports and certain jabs given. However, six weeks on and we were still waiting.
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The war against Japan was expected to last for some considerable time, however, the introduction of the Atom Bomb by the Americans and the use of them by the American Air Force brought the Japanese war to a very quick end. We had at the time just received our preliminary dates and instructions for flying out to the Far East. This announcement that the Japanese had surrendered cancelled this and we missed the opportunity of joining the Tiger Force. The use of the Atomic Bomb on two Japanese cities seemed, and was, a terrible thing to do and caused terrible casualties among the Japanese citizens in these two cities.
However, if it had been necessary for US troops to land and fight their way through all the various islands the casualty list was estimated that it could have been one million plus service people.
North Luffenham
The war in both Europe and Japan was over which meant that working conditions at North Luffenham changed as from now. There was less requirement for further training of Lancaster crews. There were a large number of service men and women in all three services hoping and wanting to get back to Civvie Street as soon as possible. The government also had a problem in that across the country there were not the organisations or jobs available to employ all those excess to requirements service personnel. Therefore a delaying action was in place to slow down the release. Lancasters were of course used for various operations such as dropping food supplies to the people of Belgium and Germany and for bringing home prisoners of war from Germany and elsewhere and from bringing to the UK survivors from the torture camps.
The top chiefs of all three services were of course now considering the future of the armed forces. The Air Force was no different, we had won the war but not the peace, the peace may be a lot more difficult and to that end the Air Force was trying to assess and ensure whatever happened they had sufficient of high quality personnel to carry out this purpose. Therefore as personnel were being demobbed, if they should have certain qualities they were being given the opportunity to stay on by being offered certain incentives.
While at Luffenham I took the opportunity of attending as many courses as possible, improving my knowledge and information regarding the services and of course continuing to add to my flying hours, something I enjoyed doing.
Our job on the unit was similar to any other staff member, flying still took priority, other duties such as Duty Officer and such like was also now part of our programme.
I recall an interview which I had with the Group Captain Section Leader arrived at the flight office and said “Jock, the Wing Commander wants to see you”. “What have I done?” “Nothing, it’s good news, make your way to his office for 11am.” “I’m flying at 10 o’clock”. “Ok, after that will do”. I arrived at his office next day around 9.55 am, his secretary showed me into his office. I saluted, he said “Good, come and sit down” then the interview went something like this: “I have been looking over your record and I see that you have carried out a lot of flying, almost 2000 hours. There are not many people who can live up to that, you must enjoy flying?” “Yes I do”.
“I also see that you have attained a pass, in fact an extremely high pass on the Chief Ground Engineer course, unusual for aircrew even although you are a Flight Engineer”.
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“Your flight commander also told me you were highly respected and thought of at Cottesmore because of your work with Engine Service course. You would seem to be going back to Civvie Street?” “Yes sir”. “Do you want that?” “Possibly”.
“Even with all your exceptional work the war is over so I can’t recommend you for a medal however, what I can offer you – you know that the Air Force is looking for people like yourself for its future success – therefore the offer I am prepared to put to you is stay on in the Air Force as a Chief Ground Engineer with Flying Officer on entry (permanent) with good promotional opportunities to at least Flight Lieutenant or even Squadron Leader. Think carefully about it, don’t make your mind up now, come and see me in one week’s time.”
The unit continued flying and with training. The war being over the RAF was keen to show off their aircraft such as the Spitfire and the Lancaster, which had been so brilliant during the war, to the general public so a number of open days throughout the UK were arranged whereby the public could come along and see over all these war time aircraft. These days proved very popular.
To show off the Lancaster we landed at the base involved, stayed for four to five hours opening the Lancasters up and allowing people to enter by the rear door, make their way up through the fuselage past the pilots positions and exit through the flaps in the bomb aimers compartment, at the front of the aircraft reaching the ground by ladder. Two of the open days I remember going to were Finningly [sic] and Haverford West.
During my time in the RAF I only met up with my sister Jean on one occasion and that was when I was at St Athans in South Wales, she was stationed at Bridge End and we managed to meet for an hour or two, where we met I cannot recall. My brother Sandy was stationed at Swinderby for most of his time in the RAF as a fitter servicing Lancasters, and even although we were relatively closely stationed to each other we never once met up and even when I occasionally landed at Swinderby we never managed to get together. Of course these plans were always last minute arrangements and we might only be there for an hour or so before taking off again.
After two weeks I made a further appointment to meet the Group Captain and told him that after serious consideration that I had decided to leave the RAF and return to Civvie Street. I believe that he was disappointed, he wished me success in whatever I decided to do, we shook hands and I left his office.
I was demobbed on 10th September 1946 at Uxbridge then travelled north to Stamford, Sylvia had earlier moved to Stamford to further her career as a shop buyer, by working in a much larger ladies fashion store, travelling to Stamford on a Sunday evening, returning home in the Saturday evening. This meant that we saw more of each other on my time off.
The other opportunity that was open to me on my demob, as I had over a 1000 flying hours, was to join BOAC. Unfortunately the base was Australia and the airline travelled between Australia and Ceylon. Also available because I had A‑level passes on RAF teaching courses gave me the opportunity to train as a technical course teacher.
Both of which I declined and decided to return to Civvie Street and continue in forestry, which was always my first choice and as my future notes will show.
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CHAPTER I
ADVANCES IN TECHNOLOGY
WHAT IF?
Advances in Technology
Most of the technology was designed to combat the increasingly efficient enemy night fighter’s control system, in July 1943 window was used for the first time. Window was made up of thin strips of aluminium foil (approximately 9" long) packed in bundles of approx 100. It was the bomb aimer’s responsibility to drop these down a small chute filled in the front compartment every 15 minutes along route. With all other aircraft doing the same, the concentration played havoc with the enemy’s ground and air radar sets, however, it could not deter the enemy fighter threat for a long period of time, as the Germans managed to overcome this problem.
During D-Day window was used with great success in fooling the Germans that a second landing area further east along the coast was to happen. 101 Squadron completely serviced this operation by dropping window, continually moving across the channel for 48 hours, which meant that German defence forces were stretched along the French coastline rather than being able to concentrate on the D-Day landing site. By the time they realised their mistake the landing had a strong hold.
Other new aids such as RDF (Radar Direction Finding) known as Monica was trialled by 101 Squadron, but was short lived simply because the enemy night fighter crews became efficient at tuning into the signals omitted by Monica.
In July 1943 another new system known as Ground Cigar was operating twenty-four hours a day from a site on the Suffolk coast, jamming the whole of the 38‑42 MHZ band known to be used by the German fighters.
It became obvious to the boffins that to be really efficient the system needed to be airborne, it was envisaged that a single Bomber Command squadron should be allocated the new RLM role and would operate within the main part of the bomber stream. This highly responsible task was given to 101 Squadron, the new system was known as ABC or Airborne Cigar. The ABC required an additional crewmember known as a Special Duties Operator; the area behind the main spar normally occupied by the aircraft emergency couch was converted to accommodate the new equipment. Externally, 7 ft long aerials were fitted to the aircraft, two along the spine and the third under the forward fuselage. The special duty operators were German speaking and became the eighth crewmember in 101 Squadron crews.
The role was to jam the radio transmissions made by the German night fighters ground based controllers. ABC equipment consisted of a panoramic receiver and three transmitters; the receiver could pick up all 24 different frequencies being used by the crystal controlled VHF sets. Its eight crystals each covered three wavebands used by the Germans’ night fighter
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crews to receive the necessary information about the bomber stream location. Once the operators were able to use their German language skills to find the active controller frequency he put down a key connected to one of his transmitters, which broadcast engine noise on that frequency effectively jamming it over a range of around 50 miles. He repeated the process until he had his three transmitters effectively jamming three German frequencies.
In theory, eight of the 101 Squadron Lancasters could cover all 24 frequencies in use during the night.
This equipment was quite weighty therefore so-called unnecessary equipment such as the steel plates behind the pilot’s head and the steel door behind the front compartment were removed to counter the weight increase.
ABC was very effective in jamming the German night fighter’s ability to connect quickly with the main bomber stream. The other downside was when the 101 Lancasters specials were operating their equipment these aircraft could be readily picked up by German night fighters and searchlights. With the squadron suffering much heavier losses than any other squadron in Bomber Command. There was a plaque in the middle of Ludford Magna remembering the 101 sacrifice, it read:
[border] 101 Squadron Lancasters based at Ludford Magna
from June 1943 with highly secret ABC radio and 8 man
crews flew on every major Bomber Command mission
suffering the highest losses of any squadron in World War II [/border]
Ludford Magna was also selected as one of the first airfields in the group to have FIDO fitted. FIDO (Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation) this was justified because of 101 Squadron’s key role within Bomber Command.
The equipment consisted of two pipelines running along the edge of each side of the main runway with perforated holes in the pipes. In extremely foggy conditions when aircraft were due to land petrol was forced along the pipes which was then set alight, this helped clear the fog sufficiently to allow aircraft to land safely. One of the disadvantages being should an aircraft with fuel leaking or swerving off the runway an explosion could occur causing loss of aircraft.
This equipment came into us in January 1944. The standard rear turret fitted to the Lancaster was the Fraser Nash with four 0.303" (rifle calibre) machine guns, which were always thought to be of poor quality in terms of armament. A new turret was built by Rose Brothers of Gainsborough after much discussion with personnel from 101 Squadron. The new turret was easy to control, had more room for the gunner and better vision. Six aircraft from 101 Squadron were the first to receive the new turret. Our aircraft X² was one of the six (2 x 0.5 calibre).
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On 25th/26th February 1944 when we visited Augsburg, operation 28, Len our rear gunner was excited about the possibility of using them against a German fighter and witnessing what effect it would have.
1943‑44 was an excellent period to join 101 Squadron. The squadron had just moved to a new base at Ludford Magna near Louth, Lincolnshire and was well placed to carry the war to the enemy. A highly rated squadron within 1 group, a squadron which was given every opportunity to prove itself as one of the best and we were so lucky to be part of it.
The squadron was involved in all that was happening. New equipment was becoming on stream such as ‘Window’, ABC, upgraded Lancasters, FIDO and the introduction of the more superior rear turret. As days and weeks passed our crew was becoming the most experienced so as a crew were very much involved, we flew on the operation when Window was first used. We were also on the operation ABC was first introduced into Bomber Command and our aircraft X² was one of the six aircraft fitted with the new turrets.
These were exciting times, sometimes frightening, anxious and tiring, however, as a crew we worked as a team. We were loyal to each other, dedicated in what we were doing and hence very satisfied with the results we achieved. On completing our tour of operations we were the only crew that had completed a tour of operations since the squadron moved to Ludford Magna. Statistics showed that if Lancasters lasted more than five operations they were exceptional.
All who served in the forces have memories, some good, some not so good. My memories of being in the RAF are of being good and exciting times not to be missed.
My memories of being part of 101 Squadron are also of exciting times, with plenty of different experiences, most when flying. Some exciting, some frightening, one or two horrific, others best forgotten, however, a part of life which I am proud to have been part of and on the whole really enjoyed.
On 12th June 1944 I received confirmation that I had been awarded the DFM.
What if?
The situation seemed very strange, here was seven or eight young men from various backgrounds and from different areas of the United Kingdom, who had for the best part of a year lived and dined together. Worked as a close team under very difficult and dangerous conditions and after completing a tour of operations went on leave a few days later, moved from base on to other jobs and from then until the end of the war had no further contact with each other. In fact until recent years I still had no contact. It was 2001 when I met up with Norman our wireless operator and then years after that out special operator Ken.
What if when I joined 101 Squadron Wally Evans, our pilot, had not insisted that I was his engineer and I had joined A H Evans’ crew as their engineer? A H Evans’ crew were lost on their third operation.
What if when our Lancaster was caught by the blue searchlights over Germany, if the Halifax which drifted a few thousand feet below us into the path of the searchlight at that split second and received the full impact of the guns had not done so? We would be just another statistic.
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What if when over Amiens we received only comparatively slight damage from exploding shrapnel which passed through the window, just caught my flying jacket sleeve and then went out through the windscreen? Had I been standing three inches to the right the result could have been very different.
What if on returning to base from operations over Berlin on 16th December 1943, when caught up in thick fog and was diverted, if the beam light put up by Catfoss had not been at that precise moment when we were flying at zero feet from the ground we would have ploughed into the farm house. Another aircraft lost on operations. Or when on reaching base Wally had not accepted my advice and decided to go round again on another circuit before landing, we would have crashed due to shortage of fuel.
What if I had decided to accept my commission and stay in the RAF as a Station Engineer probably reaching rank of Squadron Leader or had joined BOAC as a flight engineer possibly based in Sidney Australia, or had taken up the opportunity to become a teacher teaching technical subjects? Life would have been so different, however, I believe I made the correct decision, in fact I know I did. This however is for another time to discuss.
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CHAPTER J
AIRCREW BOMBER COMMAND
WARTIME BOMBER SQUADRONS
BOMBING OF BERLIN
A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A SQUADRON
CLOTHING WORN ON OPERATIONS BY OUR CREW
CONTACT MADE WITH TWO CREW MEMBERS PLUS INFORMATION ON OTHERS
Aircrew Bomber Command
A typical description of a bomber crew at the time was provided by the ministry publication entitled Bomber Command. The men of Bomber Command are appointed to fulfil a special mission. Their life is not that of other men, not even those in the other branches of the service. It’s very physical conditions are different for them now; a day is much of the night, as much of the day is a time for sleep and repose. Discipline is constant yet flexible. Triumph and disaster are met with and vanquished together.
Air Marshall Arthur Harris, Air Officer Commanding in Chief Bomber Command 20th February 1992. He was known as Butch, the opinion of him varied in accordance with our losses, if they were heavy then his popularity (if that was the right word) suffered. You must remember that most aircrews never saw him when he visited Ludford, I thought he was stone faced, severe and even cynical over our effort. I disagree with those who dubbed him arrogant – he certainly was not. Nevertheless, if his crews did not see enough of him to love him they certainly appreciated what he was doing for them, he gave his command a much-needed sense of purpose. Up to the end of 1941 many people tended to regard strategic bombing as little more than a wasteful sideshow. It was Harris who proclaimed loud and long
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that Bomber Command was vital to the war effort and that his crews should be given the best of everything, because their efforts would be decisive in the final outcome.
After a successful raid the C‑in‑C would send a signal to the squadron saying good show keep it up this meant a great deal to men who knew that they stood a less than even chance of surviving a tour of operations.
Harris was also a great innovator, he called for better navigation and bombing aids, better lit flare paths and increased safety conditions on take offs and landings.
GEC was one of the aids which he had pressured for which enabled the navigator to plot his position relative to a ground station, this turned navigator from an art into a science.
Wartime Bomber Squadrons
People of the younger generation can get the impression that Bomber Command was one big, happy family. This was not so, squadrons were very much individual entities, we didn’t mix much with other squadrons and they assumed the character and charisma of the people who were on the squadron at the time.
As a result, few outsiders will ever appreciate what it was really like to serve on a bomber squadron unit. Not wishing to dwell on the dark side of squadron life I was twenty years old at the time, life was for living, we got on with the job. The higher direction of the war was for the older types – 25 years old and above. They were enjoyable days and of course we always expected to come back, suffice to say therefore that at least 277 aircraft were lost or went missing from 101 Squadron between July 1943 and 1945 and that the squadron lost 1094 crew members killed in action and 178 taken prisoner of war.
This was the highest casualty rate of any RAF squadron in World War 2.
Bombing of Berlin
It is difficult for ordinary citizens to visualise the effect of concentrated aerial bombardment.
Un Sangro front in Italy, often spoken of as the biggest land bombardment of the war, 1400 tons of shells came down in eight hours. Remember the front was many miles in length and mostly open country yet they smashed the German defence and prisoners spoke of the astounding paralysing effect of these heavy bombardments. Now compare the figures of the air assault, take as an instance only one raid in January 1944, 7300 tons of bombs went down on Berlin in 30 minutes. Remember too that the bombs fell into built up areas on a shorter front than a land attack. Remember too that tonnage for tonnage a bomb contains a much higher explosive charge than a shell. No city, no defence system could stand up to such attack for long delivered as Bomber Command was doing.
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War time Bomber Station – a normal day’s work load
The total number of personnel on the stations was around 2,500 including officers, male and
female personnel.
The station was equipped to perform as an individual unit like a small town with runways of sufficient length so that the aircraft could take off and land from where to attack the enemy.
It carried sufficient supplies of food, stocks of all the necessary maintenance supplies such as aircraft parts, tyres, turrets, engines and down to all the other small items like rivets screws everything necessary to keep the aircraft flying.
In every hour of the day people were working and with 2,500 staff on board the station could exist from the rest of the country for weeks. Time meant very little to staff and many would not know which day in the week it was or which date in the month it was. Sundays were just another working day.
The work was continuous, outside interests were possibly intentionally forgotten, all friends and family had to remain outside the airfield boundaries.
The best way of describing a normal working day is by eight am the bomb handling crews would already be hard at work sorting out the various bombs, such as the 4,000 lb (cookies) mounting them onto low engine driven trolleys, others would be packing the incendiaries into special cases, similarly all the other bombs likely to be used on operations. All these would be loaded onto special transports and dispatched around the airfield to the Lancasters which would be flying later that day if operations were on.
This operation would carry on well into the afternoon. Other staff would be doing the same with cartridges, feeding thousands of them into their ammunition belts and distributing them to the guns in the aircraft.
Other airfield staff would be filling the fuel bowsers which held 2,500 gallons of petrol and filling up the Lancaster fuel tanks which held 2,140 gallons. The fill up amount would depend on the time of the operation (Lancaster used an average of 200 gallons per hour). At the dispersal points ground crews would be carrying out their inspections on the aircraft under their control, engine fitters would be carrying checks on engine’s plugs and instruments, turrets and undercarriages and tyres, while others would be doing other pre-checks on the airframe wings, intercom and oxygen bottles etc., should any faults be found then an air test would be necessary to be carried out by the Pilot and Flight Engineer to make sure all was well. If a fault was still found and was connected with the flying ability of the aircraft further work would have to be carried out, a further air test would be required. Occasionally a complete engine may have to be replaced putting great strain on the ground crews.
While all this was happening other special staff would be working against time. The Intelligent Officer checking maps and up to date information regarding the target and route. The weather people checking the last minute weather conditions.
In messes the kitchen staff would have to prepare breakfast, lunch, tea and supper for around 200 people on top of that when operations were on a meal consisting of chips and egg had to be prepared and served approximately two hours before take-off time for the aircrews. In the locker rooms each flying crew had to have a parachute, flying helmet, safety aids, maps and money of the countries over which they would be flying, in case of being
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shot down. Sandwiches, extra rations prepared by the WAAFS and parcelled up to include chocolate, fruit, chewing gum and other items of refreshment.
The Station Officer and Flight Commander would be selecting the crew and working out the technical data for the journey.
Up until now the aircrews who may have been flying the evening before would be, during the morning, catching up on sleep (having got to bed around 4 to 5am), and in the early afternoon catching up with information etc. from their own Flight Officer or be visiting the aircraft to discuss with the ground crew, Sergeant-in-charge, any problems from the previous operation. Then probably the Pilot and Flight Engineer would have to carry out a test flight.
Once it was announced that operations were on, the aircrews had to attend briefing, have their meal then collect all necessary equipment from the locker room ready for being transported to the aircraft, to carry out the pre-flight checks ready for take-off. Only then after this could the ground crew relax, have a meal, a wash and have some time to themselves, if there was any time left, then be ready for the aircraft returning home anytime from five to eight hours later depending on the distance of the target.
Crews on return were interviewed by the Interrogation Officer, then have their meal and then to bed for hopefully a good sleep, to be ready for what were to happen the next day.
The Clothes Normally Worn on Operations by our Crew
In Bomber Command there was no laid down dress code for air crew to wear when flying on operations, every Squadron in fact every person had his own preference, all had to wear the RAF uniform, however what they wore under or over was entirely up to individuals (the RAF uniform had to be worn for safety reasons in case they landed in enemy territory, in uniform they became prisoners of war, in ‘civies’ they were most likely to be called spies and possibly shot).
Most of the operations carried out on Lancasters (in fact from all heavy bombers) were from heights of 20,000 ft or over where temperatures could drop to as low as -35 or -40oC below zero.
There was a certain amount of heating within the aircraft, this was heat which originated from the engines through ducts and entered the fuselage in the wireless operators compartment, therefore while the wireless operator and the navigator were roasting a little of the heat could be felt by the pilot and engineer, the bomb aimer who was in the front and the gunners in their turrets received no benefit, they had to source heat from other means.
As I indicated earlier it was an individual choice what clothing they wore, however I can tell you what our crew would normally wear, starting with the most comfortable.
Wireless operator: Normal RAF battle dress, heavy white jersey up to the neck, Mae West, parachute harness, flying boots and silk gloves.
Navigator: Normal RAF battle dress over silk underwear, heavy jersey, Mae West, parachute harness, flying boots, leather shoe foot with lamb’s wool tops (easily cut off), silk gloves plus leather gloves.
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Pilot and Flight engineer: There was much less heat reached the front of the aircraft therefore we wore silk underwear, long johns under RAF battle dress, heavy white woollen jersey up to neck, leather gloves over silk gloves. No Mae West, parachute harness, flying boots leather shoe base and leather flying jacket.
Bomb aimer: He usually flew in the nose of the aircraft which could be very cold, he wore silk underwear, long johns, RAF battle dress usually two heavy woollen jerseys and heavy over suit, Mae West, parachute harness, silk gloves, woollen gloves and a pair of leather gloves on top plus the normal flying boots.
The two crew members who suffered most from the cold were the gunners.
Mid upper gunner: he was still within the aircraft which gave some comfort. He wore two complete suits of silk underwear, two woollen jerseys, RAF battle dress, unheated over suit, heated over suit, Mae West, parachute harness, woollen scarf, woollen head cover under his helmet, three pairs of gloves, silk, woollen and leather, heated flying boots.
Rear gunner: This was the coldest place in the aircraft in fact he was actually outside the rear of the plane, so if it was expected that the temperatures would be around -20oC he would wear that similar to the mid upper gunner however if the temperatures were expected to drop to say -40oC he would add on extra layers of clothing and wear five pairs of gloves.
The gunners flying suits were electrically heated from a plug-in switch as were their helmet and gloves, their flying boots were also electrically heated, therefore if everything worked properly they were reasonably comfortable, this was however not always the case, a fault in the electrical system, possibly caused by enemy action, then they had problems and could receive severe frost bite, resulting in loss of fingers, toes or even more.
When the gunners were dressed up to ready to fly, it was difficult for them to walk and reach their position in the aircraft. The rear gunners especially looked like the advert for Dunlop tyres!
One of the main reasons for all crew members wearing silk gloves was if you caught the metal part of the aircraft with your bare hand it was so cold that the moisture from your skin would stick to the metal and leave you with severe injuries.
In the aircraft flying at over 10,000 ft oxygen had to be used which meant using masks attached to the helmets, which every few minutes you had to break the ice which had formed around the mask from just breathing.
The oxygen was also distributed through the aircraft from a single supply at each crew position there was a supply tap, there was also emergency bottles at each position, these would last for around 10 minutes.
We all also carried a whistle which was attached to the top left hand buttonhole of our tunic. The sound from a whistle carries much further than the human voice. It could be used to attract attention to one’s self in a dangerous situation or for making contact with others.
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Contact made with Two Crew Members after 60 Years plus information on others
Living in Scotland during the 1950’s and 60’s we had little choice of attending any of the activities which took place such as Airfield Open Days, Squadron reunions, or fly pasts, and it wasn’t until the early 1970s when we moved down to Shropshire that we began attending the occasional ‘open days’ (by this time Brian was old enough to be interested), Sylvia’s mum and sister’s home was in North Hykeham, Lincoln, only a short drive from Waddington RAF station, so this was our first visit of many which proved interesting and a good days entertainment.
We then in 1998 decided to revisit Ludford Magna (101 Squadron airfield) and the small church in the village where a Book of Remembrance was, the Book of Remembrance was of interest to me as it contained all the names of the aircrew that had been lost during the period which 101 Squadron had been there, as I said in my earlier notes that when we arrived at Ludford in July 1943 there was four crews two of which had the name of Evans, WL Evans and AH Evans, at Lindholme Heavy Conversion Unit. I was crewed up with WL Evans’ crew, and carried out my training with them, however when we arrived at Ludford somehow the paperwork was wrong and I was crewed up with AH Evans’ crew. It was suggested that as neither crews had been on operations the obvious thing was just to leave the paperwork as it was and for me to change over to the AH Evans crew, and the other Flight Engineer to take my place, Wally Evans would not agree, I was his Flight Engineer and that was how it had to be. All four crews flew on the same operations, on our first two, all returned, on our third AH Evans crew did not return, and by our fifth operation only our crew WL Evans were still operating. Checking in the Remembrance book sadly, I was able to read and realise how lucky I was that Wally had faith in me all those years ago.
While in the church we met a lady who looked after the church and was in fact decorating it with flowers, as she said this weekend coming was the 101 Squadron Association Reunion, when a service was held in the church followed by the laying of wreaths at the small memorial and afterwards the Women’s Institute laid on in the village hall tea and cakes for all, and if the weather was kind the Lancaster bomber would give a flying display.
In the year 2000 I joined the 101 Squadron Association and have attended the reunion every year since in early September, and in recent years Brian and Pauline have also joined us, joining the Association has proved very good as we have met many veterans who were flying during our time in the Squadron and other very interested people. It was through the Association Newsletter that I made contact with some of our crew members whom I had not heard from for nearly 70 years. They are Norman Ellison, our Wireless Operator and Len Brooks, our rear gunner.
In the summer of 2002 after writing a short article for the 101 Squadron Association Newsletter I was contacted by Chris, the son of our Wireless Operator (Norman Ellison) asking if I was the Donald Fraser who flew with his dad in 1943‑44 with 101 Squadron. After the telephone call Chris arranged for Sylvia and I to go to his home to meet his wife Christine and James his son, he lives in Exeter, his dad’s home was in Dawlish only a few miles apart. Chris then took us to meet his mum and dad, it was great to see him after 63 years and as such was quite emotional for both of us. It was so good to meet his wife Pauline. We stayed for around two hours before travelling on our way to Woolacombe. We met up again over the next two years, unfortunately Norman’s health deteriorated and he passed away on 13th February 2005. We attended his funeral, since then we exchange Christmas cards and the odd telephone call each year with his wife and Chris and his family.
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Norman also kept in touch with Wally Evans (our Pilot). After the war he emigrated to Australia where he lived for a number of years before returning to the UK in the mid eighties when he again contacted Norman, they then tried to contact all the other crew members, unfortunately the only member that made contact was Len Brooks, our rear gunner, Norman understood that Wally died in the late eighties.
Len Brooks, our rear gunner, we all knew that he lived in Grimsby for most of his life. During our time at Ludford whenever there was no flying on, he would take the opportunity to visit home which only took him over an hour to hitch a lift. If there was any change on flying one member of the crew would give him a telephone call and he would return to the Squadron very quickly.
During the 1980s and 90s there was a large number of books written covering the war and Bomber Command, I enjoyed reading many of them, even although as you know I did not believe all that was written, many of the books covered the time we were flying, as a result many of the operations we flew on were mentioned in them. There was a series of books written by Patrick M Otter on Bomber Command One Group, the group which 101 Squadron was in and operated throughout Lincolnshire. On reading one of Otter’s books called “Maximum Effort” I came across a picture of a number of air gunners while they were stationed at Lindholme as Instructors during their rest period. On a closer look I recognised one as Len our rear gunner. On contacting Mr Patrick Otter in 2004, he said it was 16 years since he spoke with Len at his home in Cleethorpes. However he could find no trace of him in the local telephone directories, he said he had left a message at the RAFA club in Cleethorpes to see if anyone knew what became of him, and if he had any response he would drop me a line. We thought that he had passed away around 2001‑2002.
I also made contact with Ken Lewis our Special Operator through the Newsletter, Ken also wasn’t in the best of health, however he arranged for his son in law to drive him from Reading (his home) to Lincoln. We had a great time at the Reunion lunch catching up with the past in September 2006, Ken’s profession was in Insurance which he spent all his working life in. Unfortunately he was unable to attend any more reunion meetings.
At the end of the war Norman had been in touch with Bill Blaynay, our Midupper gunner, who part way through our tour of operations after an unfortunate incident was released from flying. He told Norman that he had been reassessed and had his Sargents [sic] rank reinstated, other than that we have no other information about him.
There was still two more crew members still unaccounted for, Jimmy, our Navigator and Eric, our Bomb Aimer.
Shropshire during the war had a number of Heavy Bomber Airfields, Ternhill, Shawbury and Cosford which are still in service today. Prees, and Sleap, were both wartime bases flying Lancasters, at Prees the hangers are being used as storage units for commercial companies. Sleap is now the home of Shropshire Flying Club using part of the runway, a few buildings and the Control Tower. It is open to the public, where you watch the small aircraft flying and one can enjoy and a good cup of tea and a cake and have a good chat with people who are still interested in flying.
There is also a small Museum covering plane parts from World War II. In the last three years Sylvia, myself and friends occasionally drop in for a cup of tea, by now we know a few of the staff who are all Volunteers and very interested people.
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Jimmy Grant, Navigator
On one of our visits in 2012 I had taken with me the 1943 Christmas Dinner menu for 101 Squadron, all the crew members had signed it in the inside, most people looking at the menu thought that we had had an excellent meal considering there was a war on.
Mike Grant one of the longer serving volunteers at Sleap Museum, who aids in researching the items that are given to the Museum before they go on display to the public.
Meantime he is also tracing the history of the oil pipeline which carried the millions of gallons of oil from the ports, across the UK down to the Channel ports and on to the D Day landing sites and beyond. This will be a very interesting book to read when it is published, soon.
On seeing the menu Mike said “I know this signature, he is one of my family, see how he writes the ‘G’ and the ‘r’ in Grant, we all write our signature the same way, and we were all told off at school for not writing properly”. We worked out that Jimmy our Navigator was his uncle. After the war he said the family had gone their separate ways, as many families did, so he had no idea where Jimmy would be now – it’s a small world.
We still have no idea of what happened to Eric our Bomb aimer.
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CHAPTER K
THE LANCASTER STORY
It became clear reasonably early in the Second World War that if Britain had any chance of winning, Bomber Command had to take the war to Germany, deep into its industrial heart, which was not possible with the short range light Bombers.
It was decided by the War Council that a much larger aircraft which could travel further, with a much heavier bomb load into Germany was needed, hence the introduction of the four engined heavy bomber, the Halifax and the Lancaster.
1942 marked the turning point for Bomber Command, Marshal Travis Harris (later known as Bomber Harris) was appointed Leader of Bomber Command. He believed that Bomber Command given the necessary aircraft and equipment, could play an important role in winning the war by strategic bombing of Germany’s industrial towns and cities.
Harris ordered a 1000 aircraft raid on Cologne be carried out. Fortunately the operation was credited as a success, this persuaded the Government to allocate Bomber Command high priority for aircraft and more importantly navigation aids and radar which were vital for accurate delivery of bombs on targets.
The development of the Lancaster continued with a few prototypes being produced, the production of Lancasters increased slowly at first and gradually stepped up reaching their peak by the end of 1944.
The earlier two engine bomber had a second pilot to aid the captain with a crew number of five, however on the four engined heavies where crew members could move around the fuselage, a change was necessary. The heavies had a mid upper gun fitted requiring a mid upper gunner; because of pilot shortages owing to the increase in numbers of new squadrons coming on stream and the increased complexity of the four engine bomber, this called for a specialist engineer to replace the second pilot, so the flight engineer was created, the standard crew of the Lancaster comprised of seven specialists, Pilot, Navigator, Flight Engineer, Wireless operator, Bomb Aimer, Mid Upper Gunner and Rear Gunner. Each was an expert in his own field and each a vital cog in the overall crew, rank played no part in the airborne life of the crew.
The Lancaster was involved on most of the important operations, such as the Dambuster Raid on 16/17th May 1943, The Battle of the Ruhr, Battle of Berlin, (Overlord, the name given to the Invasion of Europe 6th May 1944) and Operation Thunder Clap, mass raids against supply and communication targets such as road and railyards continued, and against German naval shipping at Le Havre.
In late July a bombing campaign against the V-weapon sites commenced as there was fear that Germany had a new secret weapon, raids were carried out on launching and storage sites, these operations took much of Bomber Commands efforts throughout the autumn of 1944 as did the attacks against the French railway in support of Overland. In September the
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Navy believed that Tirpitz (the German Battleship) which was anchored in the Kaa Fjord in Norway was about to put to sea. Bomber Command was again given the task of destroying her. On the third attempt on 12th November 31 Lancasters attacked the Battleship. This time on arrival the weather was clear over the ship, no smokescreen obscured the target, during the attack several hits were seen by the Lancaster crews, followed by a heavy explosion, one of its magazines blew up, then the mighty Battleship rolled over and capsized.
By the end of 1944 the Allied Armies were approaching the Rhine, come the end of March 1945, they had crossed the river in strength and were advancing on Berlin.
Bomber Command’s role assisted by the United States Eighth Airforce was to support the Allies by bombing Military targets, and in supporting the Russian Army on their advance from the east on Berlin.
The last major attack of the war took place on 25th April 1945 by the bombing of the Bergholf (Hitler’s Eagles nest) and the SS barracks nearby.
The war in Europe ended on 8th May 1945 (VE Day), however just previous to that operation Manna was put into action, which was dropping vital food supplies to the starving civilian population of the Netherlands (the Germans agreed to the dropping areas) a similar operation dropped food parcels to the Dutch population. A large number of Lancasters were involved, these operations stopped on VE Day.
With the war in Europe over, plans were made for the repatriation of British and Commonwealth prisoners of war under the code name Operation Exodus, many Lancasters were converted to carry 25 passengers for this purpose. Flights continued bringing prisoners home from across France and Germany. Receiving camps were set up in the United Kingdom for the thousands of men returning home from Europe.
Although the war was over in Europe, many Lancasters were preparing for war in the Far East, known as the Tiger Force, it was agreed that 10 Squadrons of Lancasters would be used until the New Lincoln Bomber came on stream which had much longer fuel ranges. Fortunately the Japanese war ended sooner than expected (because of the use of the Atom bomb) resulting in Tiger Force not being required. Myself along with many other crew members were very relieved, because flying over Japan would have been very difficult and dangerous.
After the war the Lancaster continued flying carrying out various roles until the new aircraft came into service, of the approximately eight thousand Lancasters that were built only a few are left with only two airworthy aircraft, one in Britain and the other in Canada.
During World War II Lincolnshire was known as Lancaster County, because of the large number of squadrons scattered across the County (28 in total). Today most of the land then used is now returned to agriculture. It is still difficult to travel around without driving past the site of a famous airfield.
The airworthy Lancaster belongs to the Lincolnshire’s Lancaster Association, based at RAF Coningsby and is part of the Battle of Britain memorial Flight. Each year this flight performs at many air-displays entertaining thousands of people and serves as a living memorial to those air crew who gave their lives in the defence of their Country.
There is a second Lancaster which has its home also in Lincolnshire at East Kirby and belongs to two brothers, Fred and Harold Panton, the aircraft is maintained to a very high standard,
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where the public can have a taxi ride in the Lancaster, and enjoy the sound of the four Merlin engines.
The people of Lincolnshire were the first to know when the RAF were on operations, as with 28 squadrons based throughout the county and each squadron with at least 20 aircraft serviceable, the sound made from over 2000 Merlin engines, as they circled and climbed to reach a height of 10,000 ft before setting out across Europe was tremendous. People from the Netherlands told me (after the war) that during the war they lay in bed at night hoping to hear the special sound made by the British bombers, and as they passed over, they wished them success in their operation and prayed that the young men who flew in them returned home safely.
During operations I listened to the four Merlin engines purring away for five or six hours, the sound was magic and something I will never forget.
I am one of the thousands who have been entertained over the years by attending many of the fly pasts and open days, where the Lancaster has been carrying out the flypast, firstly to hear the sound of the Merlin engines which is music to my ears, then to see this superb aircraft flying towards you at around 200 feet nearly always brings a tear to my eyes for memories past.
Date: 30 Aug 1943
This picture was taken from the camera operated in conjunction with the opening of the bomb doors and Bomb Aimer releasing his bombs on our 2nd Operation to Munchen Gladbach. The picture plotted the bombs hitting the target.
[photograph of bombs hitting target]
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Lancaster Bomber
Specification
Length: 69ft 4ins (21.08m)
Wingspan: 102ft 6ins (31.00m)
Height: 20ft 6ins (6.23m)
Maximum Speed: 300+ mph
Range loaded: 2,600 miles app
Ceiling loaded: 24,000 ft
Internal payload: up to 7 tons
Full fuel load: 2,140 gallon
4 Merlin engines 1390 hp
(The latest Lancasters could be better in all specifications)
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[photograph of Avro Lancaster bomber]
[photograph of Avro Lancaster cockpit]
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[inserted] 16th December 1943 14th op. [deleted] Page 3 [/deleted] [/inserted]
Black Thursday
[inserted] Further notes on our 14th operation on 16th December 1943 [/inserted]
[crest]
AT A minute before midnight on the night of December 16. 1943 Lancaster LM395 emerged briefly from low cloud just north of Caistor. There was barely time for the pilot, Sgt Stan Miller of Scarborough to register what was happening before the Lancaster struck high ground near the town. When rescuers arrived they found no survivors among the crew of seven.
Crashes amongst Lancasters returning from ops or on night exercises had become an almost regular occurrence in Lincolnshire by the winter of 1943. But that night something awful was happening as the 1 Group aircraft returned from a round trip of eight hours to Berlin.
The raid that night had been specifically planned to catch the defenders fog bound on their nightfighter bases across Northern Europe. Instead, the mist came down and shrouded many of the airfields in Eastern England as the bombers were returning.
That night 483 Lancasters and 15 Mosquitos raided Berlin. Twenty-five aircraft were lost to a combination of night-fighters, flak and collisions over the German capital. At least another 29 Lancasters were lost in crashes when the bombers returned to airfields blanketed in fog.
1 Group suffered more than most with 13 aircraft being lost and 56 men killed in crashes on or around their bases. 100 Squadron was hit hardest of all, losing four aircraft, including two which collided right over the airfield at Waltham. 460 at Binbrook lost two as did 166 at Kirmington. And single aircraft were lost from 625 Squadron at Kelstern, 101 at Ludford and 12 and 626 lost a Lancaster each at Wickenby.
During briefings that afternoon, crews had been told that Bomber Command had been waiting to mount a raid on Berlin when the weather was so bad that the fighters would be grounded and they would have an easy trip. This was to be it.
The planned route was straight in and out again over Denmark. But the fighters, which were supposed to be sitting on fog-shrouded airfields across Holland, Belgium, Northern France and Germany, were airborne, and the first intercepted the stream of Lancasters over the Dutch coast and there were running battles, until the bomber stream turned for home across Denmark. Twenty one aircraft were shot down and four lost in collisions over Berlin itself.
The weather became progressively worse as the aircraft returned and by the time the 1 Group Lancasters began arriving they found the cloud base had almost reached ground level.
Crashes began to be reported from almost every airfield. Tired crews were unable to pick up the circle of lights which by then had been fitted around most of the dromes. Some came down in open fields, some, like LM395, simply flew into the Wolds. At Waltham, two Lancasters from 100 Squadron, O-Oboe and F-Freddie, collided as they circled looking for the funnel of lights that could guide them to safety.
One man who remembers that night vividly is Wing Commander Jimmy Bennett, who had arrived at Waltham three weeks earlier to form the new 550 Squadron which was due to move to North Killingholme in the new year.
Bennett. with two tours behind him already, chose to fly that with 'Bluey’ Graham and his crew.
"Our take-off was early, about 4.30 in the afternoon, and even then visibility wasn't very good and it was plain we were not going to be in for a very pleasant journey,” he said.
The bombers emerged from the cloud cover which was supposed to protect them over the North Sea. “There was no high cloud and at times we could see dozens of aircraft around us," Bennett recalled. "The clouds below cleared slightly over the city, we dropped our bombs and got away again. There was some fighter activity but we were not bothered.
"Coming back the cloud started to increase again and it was clear that by the time we reached England it would be almost right down to the deck. Bluey decided to come down through the cloud over the North Sea. In conditions like that it was always wise practice. Lincolnshire may have been fairly flat, but other places weren’t and there were always a few of what we called "stuffed clouds" around, clouds which contained something hard, like a hill.
"We dropped down into the mist but Bluey picked up the outer circle of sodium lights at Waltham, stuck his port wing on them and followed them round until he found the funnel and put her down.
“We rolled along the runway to the far hedge and we were already aware that planes were coming down all around us, landing at the first opportunity, so we decided it would be a lot safer to leave the aircraft where it was and walk the rest of the way.”
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Black Thursday
[picture of aircraft]
100 Squadron had suffered terribly that night. So had 97 Squadron at Bourn in Cambridgeshire. It lost no fewer than seven aircraft in crashes.
The 1 Group Summary, which was circulated to all squadrons at the end of December, recorded: “No opportunity for striking at our objectives must be lost. This being the case, it is obvious that, in addition to the enemy on the far side, the elements of this side still have to be mastered.
“As an illustration, after the raid on Berlin on December 16/17, a widespread and unpredicted deterioration in the weather at our home bases occurred.
"No diversion areas were available and many deplorable accidents resulted while our aircraft were endeavouring to break cloud and land."
The Summary continued: "An investigation has now been completed which shows the accidents cannot be attributed to a common factor. Some aircraft broke cloud too quickly, some broke cloud too slowly and continued to sink, whilst others ''slipped in” on a turn while endeavouring to keep the airfield lights in view."
It added: "Conditions were vile and unexpected yet 136 aircraft landed safely. We must continue to strive for better airmanship and more effective ground control.
But no number of investigations and changes to procedure could erase the memory of that wooden hut near Louth for Wing Commander Bennett.
One crew which narrowly escaped joining the casualties that night was one from 101 Squadron at Ludford. [inserted] X2 [/inserted]
Len Brooks, who was the rear gunner in a Lancaster flown by Sgt Walter Evans, remembers that they were diverted to Driffield because of the bad weather. Over East Yorkshire they were picking up RT messages from Driffield, Dishforth and Catfoss but could see no lights through the murk.
Then Catfoss offered to put a light up for them. " They realised we were very low and put the beam almost parallel to the ground right on us. I remember feeling the power go on. the nose lift and suddenly I saw under the turret chicken huts, a garden shed and finally chimney pots flashing by. That Iight had saved us.”
[inserted] This refers to the aircraft being suddenly given full power to lift itself over the farm buildings [/inserted]
Mr Brooks also remembers the first time Ludford's new FIDO fog dispersal system came into use. This consisted of a system of petrol burners the length of the runway, the theory being that the heat generated would drive the fog away. It worked, too, the only problem being that the hot air caused a great deal of turbulence over the runway.
He recalls that two aircraft ahead of them declined to land, despite the exhortations of the station commander, Group Captain Bobby Blucke. When it came to their turn they were so low on fuel they had no option and Evans virtually forced the Lancaster down onto the runway.
[inserted] [symbol] Len Brooks our Rear Gunner He was looking backwards from the aircraft therefore had a completely different view from the others of the crew [/inserted]
[photograph of the rear gunner, Len Brooks]
102. An unknown gunner standing by his turret. 12 Squadron, Wickenby, May 1944.
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Training the Crews
[crest]
BEFORE BOMBER Command could launch its projected expansion in late 1943 and 1944 it had to have a ready supply of crews. And that meant an increase in training establishments.
Changes in the training system meant that each Group became responsible for turning out its own heavy bomber crews. With Lindholme in South Yorkshire as the Base station, Heavy
Conversion Units were set up at Faldingworth, Blyton and Sandtoft with other training units being based at various times at Hemswell, Ingham and Sturgate.
Most of the1I Group crews were to go through these training bases and many felt that flying with operation squadrons was considerably safer than in the HCUs.
Until more Lancasters became available, their conversion to four-engined heavies was largely on Halifaxes, and in particular on the early Mark I and lls. They were underpowered aircraft which had already been discarded by operational squadrons in favour of either Lancasters or the much superior later marques of the Halifax. They also had some nasty habits, particularly when inexperienced crews tried one particular manoeuvre which effectively blocked the airflow over the tail and was responsible for the destruction of a number of these aircraft.
One ex-12 Squadron crew remember starting six cross-country exercises from Sandtoft and failing to complete one of them. There was little wonder that Sandtoft became known throughout 1 Group as Prangtoft.
Sandtoft itself was, like the other training airfields, originally intended as an operational station.
The site. which is alongside what is now the M180 between Scunthorpe and Thorne, was selected by Air Ministry surveyors in January 1942 as suitable for use by heavy aircraft and work started that October on the construction of the airfield. It was intended that it would come into use as a bomber airfield in January 1944 but in the meantime, it was decided to earmark the new station for a Heavy Conversion Unit.
It officially opened in December 1943 (although it was by no means complete, not unusual with newly-opened airfields in 1 Group at the time). The first unit to operate from there was A Flight of 1667 HCU which moved in from Faldingworth, followed by its other two flights. Later in the year a fourth Flight was formed and this became the Flying Instructors’ Flight which in turn provided the training for instructors within 11 Base which also included Lindholme and Blyton.
[photograph of gunnery instructors]
133. Gunnery instructor at Lindholme in 1944. On the extreme left is Bob Dunston, an Australian who had lost a leg while serving with the 8th Army at Tobruk and later volunteered for the RAF as an air gunner. The picture comes from Len Brooks of Cleethorpes, pictured second from the left.
[inserted] Second from left is Len Brooks our Rear Gunner [/inserted]
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[blank page]
Dublin Core
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Title
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WO Donald Keith Fraser
Donald Keith Fraser's memoir
Description
An account of the resource
Memoir describing his life and service career in the RAF. He also gives a list of 29 operations he participated in with notes on specific operations, and recounts a brief history of the Lancaster.
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Donald Fraser
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80 typewritten pages
Language
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eng
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BFraserDKFraserDKv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Lincolnshire
France--Modane
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Munich
Germany--Schweinfurt
Germany--Stuttgart
Poland--Szczecin
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1943
1944
1 Group
101 Squadron
1667 HCU
aircrew
bomb trolley
bombing
bombing up
briefing
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
Cook’s tour
dispersal
Distinguished Flying Medal
fear
FIDO
fitter engine
flight engineer
flight mechanic
fuelling
Gee
George VI, King of Great Britain (1895-1952)
ground crew
Halifax
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
memorial
military ethos
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
perimeter track
petrol bowser
radar
RAF Bottesford
RAF Catfoss
RAF Coningsby
RAF Cottesmore
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Lindholme
RAF Ludford Magna
RAF North Luffenham
RAF St Athan
RAF Waddington
RAF Wickenby
runway
searchlight
service vehicle
Tiger force
Tirpitz
tractor
training
Window
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1441/29093/BPerkinsFWJPerkinsFWJv1.1.pdf
399a52b273385620102351e9d4c96d5e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Perkins, Frederick William James
F W J Perkins
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Perkins, FWJ
Description
An account of the resource
23 items. The collection concerns Frederick William James Perkins (1143173 Royal Air Force) who served as an engineer on radar research and as an armourer in the middle east. Collection and contains a memoir, propaganda leaflets and photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by F Perkins and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined]The Memories of LAC Fred Perkins[/underlined]
Frederick William James Perkins
Leading AirCraftman (LAC) 1143173
Main Service: Fitter Armourer General, Liberator Bombers, Middle East Theatre.
Joined Full Time Service 23 May 1941
Began Overseas Service 13 August 1943
Ended Service 26 May 1946
Transcribed from the dictated 2015 memories of Fred Perkins, aged 94.
[underlined]Joining and Basic Training[/underlined]
I volunteered to join the Royal Air Force in February 1941. I went to Worcester to volunteer and I wanted to be an aircrewman. I was enrolled and sent up to Padgate, in Lancashire, to be tested for an aircrew roll. Straight off, I could see what I was up against for a place in aircrew training. Everyone else was from a university at a time when being a student meant you were the cream at the top, and I knew I didn’t stand a chance. They accepted me into the RAF but put me on deferred service for aircrew. I got sent back into civi-street and I had a card that said I was in deferred service so I couldn't be put into another branch of the military, but could get called up at any time to the RAF. Eventually I was called up and sent to a different airbase for training as an engineer, instead.
[underlined]First Posting[/underlined]
I had my first proper posting down in RAF Christchurch, by Bournemouth (the airfield no longer exists). It was a radar research place, then, and they were experimenting on improving the radar system that had just been invented. I was assigned as general ground crew to part of the Telecommunications Flying Unit (Later the Radar Flying Unit). It was civilian billets at that point, a couple of us in each house: one airman and one technician. They were quite big houses and they looked out over the sea. Being on the south coast, the beach and the bottom of the gardens were strung with thick barbed-wire in case of invasion by boat. On a Friday, I went to the Paymaster General, to collect the rent, twentyfour and sixpence for the week, bed and breakfast. Often, in the morning, we would have to go out and round up the New Forest ponies that would wander onto the airstrip in the night. We had to get the tractor and move them off before the planes could take off. One day, I was walking past the Flight Officer’s office, an old cricket pavilion, and he said to me “You wanted to be aircrew, didn’t you?” I said I did. He said “I’ve got just the job for you. Go down to the flight office and pick up a parachute, then go up to the end of the
[page break]
runway”. When I got to the end of the runway, not much more than a grass strip, there was an aircraft called a FaireyBattle. It was a lovely aircraft with a Rolls-Royce engine, and it was all metal. They were supposed to be a fighter-bomber but weren’t very good, so they were being used for training radar. It was perfect for radar testing as the metal body was great for screwing all these little di-pole reflectors into. So I got in this thing, in the back as an observer and lookout, and off it took, the wingtips wobbling as it went over the grass. We went out over the Channel and I was to look out for German fighters. In those days, the Germans were there, only twenty nine miles away in France. We flew out over the Channel, then came back in and they would test the radar detection zones with the aircraft to determine the distance and direction that the early warning system would work. We would go out into the Channel, come back in, then down towards the west coast and over Torquay, then come back to Christchurch. As we came back in, the pilot said “How do you feel, you look a bit green?” I told him “I feel a bit green!” He told me to come back the next day, and sure enough we went up again, almost in the same area, then off towards Southampton to test that coverage. Southampton was an important area with all the docks. I felt a bit ill, then, with all the ducking and diving there, what with having to avoid all the barrage air balloons and the like. I went up a number of times, as a look-out. When I wasn’t in the back of the FaireyBattle, I would work on the petrol bowsers. They carried a thousand gallons of highoctane petrol, with a fifty gallon oil tank dragged behind. I would fill up the aircraft fuel and make sure the engines and controls were well oiled. I had a few days leave, then. When I came back, I asked if there was any chance of going up again in the ‘Battle. The Flight Officer said “You’ll be lucky, the aircraft was shot down over the Channel!” No-one knew what had happened, it had disappeared over the Channel, and that was it. They carried on the effort with several other planes, but I didn’t get to go up again. We weren’t at Christchurch for that long. We built some dome huts to live in, moving out of civilian billets, and I remember one night playing cards in one of these huts. The Germans came along and dropped some bombs right down the back of us and I thought they’d hit us directly. The explosions blew out the candles and plunged us into darkness and I thought for a moment that I was dead. We had a lot of aircraft there: Beaufighters, Mosquitoes, FaireyBattles, others, all fitted up with radar and camouflaged with trees and nets. Parts of the airfield were hit, but the bombs missed all the planes, they didn’t touch any of them. I nearly got hit several times. One night I went to the cinema and there was a raid. The Lyon's Cafe, on the corner, got hit and when we came out of the shelter, the cafe wasn't there anymore. Another time, I was cycling from Christchurch to the nearby airfield of Hurn. I heard the sirens go off, so I was peddling like mad, and all of a sudden I heard a swissssh. A line of bombs was dropped in front of me, in between Christchurch and Bournemouth. Of course, now the Germans knew where we were. They knew we were developing radar in such a way, and that it was such an important technology. They knew where we were, and seeing as we were just the other side of the Channel to them, it was too dangerous to stay. We had to move.
[page break]
We spent three days getting everything into the back of lorries, three dozen of them, and we moved up to Salisbury Plains. From there, we used the cover of darkness to go north. The lads in the back had no idea where we were going. We just piled into the back of some jeeps and followed the lead truck. Eventually, we arrived at Defford, in Worcestershire, just east of Malvern. It was just fields of tall grass and broad beans, when we got there, and the sweet smell hit us as we got out of the jeeps. We had to get the farmer out to plough the fields before we could use them. After the planes had arrived, we built a better runway and we stayed there for some time. RAF Defford was born and we carried on with radar work. You can still see some of the radar dishes there, today. One day, I was helping the top engineer with one of the fighters. He was having problems getting the oil pressure up in the engine and was revving the engine very high. The plane was jumping up and down with the vibrations until it jumped right over the chocks holding it in place. It started off down the runway with the engineer inside. It took him to the bottom of the runway to put the breaks on and get it stopped. We had to tow it back up the field with a truck, eventually, when everybody had finished laughing!
[underlined]Full Time Fitter Training[/underlined]
After that, I was called up to Kirkham, in Lancashire (what is now HM Prison Kirkham) for a training course for fitters and armourers. The course would normally have run for several years, but was condensed down into about fourteen months for us. (Between 1939 and 1945 RAF Kirkham trained 72,000 British and allied service men and women. In November 1941 Kirkham became the main armament training centre for the RAF, with 21 different trades and 86 different courses on equipment and weapons varying from 22 riffles to 75mm guns.) We were trained by Rolls Royce civilian trainers. There were about five hundred of us in a big hangar, twenty-five in a row, each section with an instructor. The training was great, there was no better training than the RAF. I used to enjoy it, I was quite keen on the job. We were trained in a number of different trades including blacksmithing, tin smithing, copper smithing, hydraulics, the lot. They took you from scratch. We had weeks of filing and grinding six-inch blocks of steel. You would file it flat, by hand, or make dove-joints, splits, rivets. Then you would start over on a new piece. The raw material would come on a tip-up truck and would be dumped in a pile for you to grab a piece when you needed it. It was easy to take a bit more of the metal off, but if you made a mistake and took too much off, you couldn't put it back on, you'd have to start again! We had the best tools, too. We had some lovely sets of tools, especially later when I was working on the Liberators. I had a big leather wallet with about twenty files in it: flat, smooth, round, square. We had to work with very fine tolerances, when we made or filed the work, because these things would end up as crucial parts of an airplane and if they failed, or didn't fit properly, the plane could crash and the crew could die. Right from the start, the trainer came over and said “That’s not the first time holding a hammer, is it? You seem to know what you’re doing.” I told him that I had come straight
[page break]
from making ceramic and steel fireplaces, on civi-street, so this was something I had been taught before. We had lots of planes to train on, too. There were six big hangars at Kirkham. Six big hangars with full sized bombers, spitfires, hurricanes, and a night-fighter called a Boulton-Paul Defiant with a turret at the back and painted black. About half-way through, the Adjutant called me into his office and said “You volunteered for aircrew when you joined.” I said “Yes, but they didn’t seem to be too eager at the time, there was no place for me on the aircrew course so they sent me to another squadron to be ground-crew.” The adjutant said “Well, there’s a place for you now.” I told him I wasn’t very interested now, I was training to be a fitter and was halfway through the course. He said “It’s not what you want, Perkins, it’s what the air force wants!” This was fair enough. They were keen, at that time, to get people onto the aircrew section because by that point, the Germans were shooting people out of the sky faster than we could train new men. However, because I had spent so long training to be an armourer, already, they had me finish my course. By the end of the fourteen weeks training, I was a Special Armourer, as opposed to the basic Armourer I was to begin with, which meant that I could work on just about anything and put me into the top group. As soon as I was finished, I was put on the list to be called up for posting overseas.
[underlined]Leaving Liverpool for the Middle East [/underlined]
As soon as my training was finished, I was to report to Liverpool, which was close to where I already was. On Sunday afternoon, we set off for Liverpool. When we got there the docks were full of all these big ships. We were headed for the Empress of Australia, a former cruise liner converted to a troop carrier. There were lots of men getting on her, very few were air force, most were army, marines and commandos. There were, I think, four thousand of us. We set off at around 8pm in the evening, three or four tugs pulling us into the Mersey. By 9pm, the Navy dropped two depth charges because they thought there was a German submarine in the vicinity. We didn’t know what was happening. They dropped these depth charges and I thought we’d been hit by a torpedo! I thought “Oh well, we won’t be going any further.” But instead, the Captain throttled up to full power and we shot out of the area as quick as the ship could go. Everyone was vaccinated, before we got onto the ship, and a few days later my elbow and arm swelled right up with vaccine fever. It took two days for the doctors to get to me, there were only a few on board and if you missed them on their round you had to wait until the next day. When they found me, they put me straight into the hospital quarters where I was waited on for a couple of days, which was lovely. Of course, when there were so many of us on the ship, finding a space for a hammock was very difficult. They were strung up everywhere with no space in between. If you weren’t there to keep a claim on your slot, like if you spend several days in the hospital, you lost your place.
[page break]
We left British waters and went out into the Atlantic, where we sailed around for about a month. We had some ships on the left of us, some on the right, but we were waiting to make up a big convoy. I think we joined a Canadian convoy to make up the numbers. We eventually went down towards Gibraltar. There were, I think, two aircraft carriers, three destroyers, us, some others. About forty odd ships in the convoy as we went through the mouth into the Mediterranean. I think we were the first allied convoy to go through the Mediterranean. Before that, to get to Egypt, the ships had to go all the way round Africa. We could see Gibraltar in the mist, with the Germans on the left, and we knew they had fast boats with torpedoes on them. We went through the strait on the North African side, down passed Benghazi. We spent about a week sailing along there because it was quite a way. I constantly thought we were going to get hammered as soon as the Germans realised we were there but we never saw more than a few German planes in the distance. It was a miracle, really. I heard the ships behind us, in later convoys, got hit, and I remember seeing a tanker in flames, on the horizon. The thing that I remember the most, about going though the Med, was the heat and smell when we hit North Africa. From spending a month in the cold Atlantic, the heat that hit us, coming of Morocco, was like an oven. The smell was strong, too, like spices. Every country I have been in has its own smell. We were so close to the coast, following it all the way around, that you could see people walking on the beach.
[underlined]Palestine and Egypt [/underlined]
We pulled into Port Said, at the mouth of the Suez Canal, on Sunday morning. We had to use pontoons to disembark and walk across to the land because the ship was so big it couldn’t get close enough to let us off. We all had two kit-bags and a Sten gun each. Of course, when we went across the pontoons it was a bit wobbly as there were so many troops getting off. Most of the troops got off first and went along the Suez Canal. Thousands and thousands of them, marching twenty miles down the side of the Suez. We didn’t go that way, there were maybe fifty or sixty of us from the RAF and we went straight to Cairo. It was a Sunday afternoon, but for the people over there it was like a weekday. We drove up to Cairo airport and there was a transit camp for RAF personnel. We were posted, from there, all over the Middle East. It was just tents on sand and we were posted off individually as needed. I was there for two or three weeks. I got to see the Pyramids, at that point. I went right inside with just a little wick candle to light the way. If you blew out the flame it was pitch black. Right inside, as far as you could go, I got. Right into the King's Chamber. I also saw the small hole that went up to the sky and lined up with a certain star at a particular time of the year. I was able to go back, as well, in 1943. About twenty of us were eventually sent off, by train, through the Sinai to Palestine. I was stationed at RAF Lydda (now Ben Gurion International Airport) in Tel Aviv. We stopped there in a small camp, just a tent village. It was a small airstrip to begin with, only small aircraft could use it, so the RAF built it up. We stripped out all of the orange trees,
[page break]
levelled the land and built a proper runway for the bombers. It was probably one of the first parts of the Middle East Bomber Command. We were attached to the Special Airborne division for a couple of months. At that point, we were sending off the bombers on bombing runs to attack the Germans. I broke my leg in Palestine. It had been raining and the ground was very slippery, but we were playing football. I played a lot of football in the RAF, and a lot before too. We had some big games when I was overseas: it was something to entertain the men so it was very popular. I always played Inside Right for the RAF teams and on that day we were playing the Army. They were all tough as hell and just as rough. I got the ball and played it down the wing. I went to kick the ball across the pitch and these two army guys both tackled me and fell across my leg. I broke both the leg and the ligament. They just moved me to the side line and didn't take me off anywhere else until the match had finished! There weren’t any ambulances over there, so I was put in the back of a pick-up wagon. It felt like part of my leg was going in one direction, and the rest in another. They drove me to Nazareth to the make-shift hospital. It was a convent, converted for military use for injured servicemen in the Mediterranean. They fixed me up and plastered my leg. The next day, I thought my leg was itching. The hospital was riddled with bugs and they had gotten into my cast. I had to push them out with sticks and flush them out with water because they were eating my leg. A day later, they took us all out of the hospital, because of the infestation, and put us on a first-aid train. It was like a cattle-wagon full of stretchers. It was open-sided and I thought it would be chilly but as it was Palestine it was nice and warm. They brought us all cups of tea, bread, cheese and a pickle. The train took us to a huge hospital in the middle of Palestine, a huge place, full of all the wounded troops from all over the Middle East. I had my leg in plaster for quite some time, so I was in a wheelchair for a bit. There was this one guy who said they had a cinema, so he took me off to see it. We had to go down a steep hill to get to the cinema. He was pushing me in the wheelchair and fell over as we were going down the hill. Off I went, bouncing down the hill and there was a ditch at the bottom of the hill. I hit the ditch, the chair went over and the wheel was spinning in the air – I can still see it now. All the others did was stand there, laughing their heads off! After that, I joined the 5th Bomber Conversion Unit, working on Liberators. This eventually changed to the 1675 Heavy Conversion Unit and moved back down to RAF Abu Sueir, in Egypt, near to the Suez Canal. I was there for two and a half years. From that airfield, you could see ships going through the main canal. Most of the time it was the tops of the ships in the distance. We couldn’t see the water, just the dunes between us and them, so it looked like the ships were going through the sand. I went swimming in the Suez, on more than one occasion. The last time I did was when I nearly drowned. My mate and I watched a big ship go by and waited for about five minutes before we went in, but it wasn't long enough. I went in and the undercurrent from the ship's wake dragged me under and pushed me down. I fought it but didn't get anywhere and I didn't think I would ever come back up. Luckily, I eventually got out of the current and made it back to the surface, but my lungs were burning like mad.
[page break]
[underlined]The Planes[/underlined]
For most of my overseas time, I worked on Liberators (American B-24s). We had nine Liberators and six fighters: three spitfires and three hurricanes. Liberators were my favourite. They had a good payload and were easy to get inside when you were ‘bombing up’ with the bomb trolley. They weren’t too far up in the air, so you could almost walk in and you pushed the bomb trolley right into the bay. You would put the swan-hook of the winch through the eye of the bomb and you would roll the winch up until the bomb sat in between the two saddles, one on each side. Then you would tighten the saddles on the bottom to keep the bombs steady when the plane was flying. After that, you would put in the detonators into what we called the pistol, at the back of the bomb. You’d put the arming vane into the pistol, followed by the safety pin. The vanes and pins would be kept in a box, fifty yards away from the plane, in case anything happened, and you‘d put the arming vanes into the bombs, to make them live, before the planes took off. I remember one time, we had just finished ‘bombing up’ one side of a Liberator. Everything was in place, all ready to go, and a flight technician went into the aircraft to go through the checklist. He accidentally pulled the wrong lever and all the bombs suddenly fell out onto the ground. Of course, we ran in every direction to get away from the bombs. Not only could they have gone off if the safety pins came out, but they were damn heavy chunks of metal that would roll, as well. You could either get crushed or blown up. Or both. We shot off in every direction and didn’t stop until we were hundreds of meters away. Finally, the technician came out with a red face. I’ve never run so fast in my life! We were more angry, though, about having to sort it all out afterwards. It took us hours to check the bombs, make sure they were safe and then re-fit them. There was lots of sweating, swearing and blinding. We kept the planes and bombs separate, most of the time. The planes were spaced out a long way apart, sometimes it was a fifteen mile round trip to fit all the planes, a mile or so there and back for each separate plane. They needed to be spaced in case there was a bombing raid on the airfield. You didn’t want all the planes and all the ammunition to go up in one lucky hit. We had a big building, in Abu Sueir, that was just for the armoury. We had guns and ammunition and other such things stored there. A big brick place. I was in charge of the munitions and there were three or four guards posted there at all times. There was thick netting and wire, all the usual things, and the guards were supposed to patrol around the outside. I went there, early one mourning, with an officer to inspect the building. When we got there, there was this big hole in the wall, at the back, where all the guns and ammunition were kept. The guards were there, and I asked what was going on, but they just mumbled. Someone’d stolen it all! They left about two or three camels and donkeys there. They had loaded all the guns and ammo they could carry on donkeys and stole off into the night. They must have been disturbed because they left a couple of animals. They’d broken through a double brick wall! They probably waited for an aircraft to come and then hammered like wild on the brick wall under cover of the noise of the aircraft engine.
[page break]
The Liberators were very loud when they took off, they had four engines, and would go on lots of bombing runs over the Mediterranean countries. Sometimes they would drop saboteurs into Italy and Albania. The Liberators would go over in the middle of the night and drop these guys, they were SAS or similar, that type of person. When they did raids in Turkey, we would fit them up to drop leaflets over the enemy territory informing them we would be bombing there in twenty-four hours, giving the civilians time to clear out of the area. For fun, sometimes we would add old crates of waste from the naafi. The crates would be wooden and would whistle when they were dropped, like bombs, and the enemy wouldn’t know if it was a bomb that hadn’t exploded. We dropped supplies, too, all kinds of supplies. Medicines, ammunition and supplies for allied troops. We dropped a lot of medicine in all the areas. They had yellow parachutes on then so you could see them. Of course, the people would gather these parachutes and keep them. The local blankets and beds were rough as hell, so people would take the parachutes as they were nice smooth silk. As a Special Armourer, I also worked on the guns. They were mainly .5’s (0.5 calibre, 12.7mm Browning Gun) which were a good gun. On the Liberator, you’d have probably about 6 stations where you had at least two .5 guns. They did away with the rearturret’s upper guns because when they fired, the crew would have two guns firing each side of their ears, and they didn’t like that very much. But, as I said, the Liberators were easy to work on. You had two side gunners, two .5’s in a side slot. The swivel range of these was limited with a cable. If the gunners were new or got a bit panicky, they could swing the gun round hard and break the cable or stretch it. We would have to reset the cable after each run. We’d get a guy with a long rod, stuck in the end of the barrel, to simulate where the bullets would go. The guy outside would walk around and we would clamp up the new cable inside to where we wanted the range of movement to be. You’d have to stop the range about six feet from something you didn’t want to hit because when you fire the guns, you get a cone of fire and had to build in some leeway. You also had to make sure that if the cable stretched again on the next flight, the gunner couldn’t shoot off the plan’s wing or tail if the cable allowed the gun to turn further than it should. The Spitfire was another one we had to change the guns on. They had .303 guns, there were eight of them. A lot of the British planes had the 303’s, which were no good at all, they had no firepower, they were like pea-shooters. The Americans used all .5s, they were definitely a better firepower. With the fighters, you would put the plane on a trestle, in the flying position, and you had a target about five hundred and fifty feet in front. You had a periscope on the gun and you lined it up to the target so that all the bullets converged in the same place. On occasion, we fitted a 20mm canon, one on each wing, but you had to have a little bit more of an anchorage if you did that on a Spitfire, because of the extra recoil. The 20mm had a special recoil-spring, a square spring. You had to have a special clamp to squash and compress it, as it was so strong to deal with the extra force of the canon when it fired. You’ve probably seen the canons in the old war films where the 20mm would strafe enemy trains.
[page break]
There were different types of ammunition, too. You’d have armour piecing shells, but we never liked them because they would wear out the barrel on the canon. You’d have incendiary ones, normal shells, they were both fine. But we used the canons more on the Hurricanes because those planes were more substantial. So we used to like to put them there. The Hurricanes also had a bit more room to move about with. The Spitfires were cramped to mount the guns. You had to be careful on the Spitfires, more than the Hurricanes, because the Spitfires used to catch fire. There was excess oil, sometimes, in the Spitfire exhaust cylinders, that could be left behind. So the flight mechanics would stand by with fire extinguishers in case the thing caught fire when it was started. The mechanic who was testing the plane would keep the engine going to blow out the flames because it was too late by that point to do anything else. We had a lot of problems with the Spitfires, out in the desert, because they were so light and flimsy, compared to the Hurricanes. You’d see them land at the end of the runway and not come any further. When you got down to the end of the strip, the thing would be tipped up on its nose! The front end would be dug into the ground. It was too front heavy and easily caught gusts of wind. It caused no end of trouble for us and the pilots. All sorts of things would happen, or go wrong, when I was out there in the Middle East. One bomber came back late, from a run over Greece. It finally came into view, coming from the Sinai towards us in Abu Sueir, over the Suez Canal. As it was nearing the end of the runway, there was this tremendous bang and the plane just blew up! We never found out what had happened. When we got to the site of the wreckage, it was all just burning fragments, too little to find anything else. It wasn’t like now with forensic teams to check every last millimetre. On another occasion, a plane came in without the undercarriage down. It scrapped along the ground and everyone was okay, but the plane was a write-off. We had to winch it up, put it on a large lorry and take it off for spares. We often had to clean out the planes, once they had returned from a bombing run. The aircrew would be trapped in these things for many hours and there was often waste that needed cleaning out. Some of the crew would get airsick and there would be vomit. Sometimes the Germans would attack the planes and shoot at them and if the plane was hit, there may be blood as well. What ever it was, we sluiced it all down with paraffin. One time, a Liberator came back with fewer crew than it left with. The plane didn't get into combat, but the rear gunner was missing. The hatch was open and the guy was gone. We thought he must have had enough and jumped out. It happened, sometimes, if someone decided they couldn't take it anymore. Being an aircrewman could be very stressful and sometimes someone would just snap.
[underlined]Local Wildlife[/underlined]
The difficulties of living out there were not limited to the aircraft. I went to a lot of places, but they all taught you to get used to varied, tough conditions. In one place there were four of us sleeping on a concrete hangar floor. Out in the desert, it was just sand and
[page break]
dust and tents. You had to check your bed, or hammock or what ever, for snakes before you got in for the night. Every morning, you‘d have to turn your boots upside down and hit them with a stick to get any scorpions out! You’d get bedbugs and things, the way we got rid of those was to thrown paraffin over the bed and blankets, then watch all these things come scurrying out. The paraffin evaporated off quickly in the desert. I slept in the armoury, quite often. I remember having to turn the light on, at night, because the scorpions would come in under cover of darkness and run across the floor. The light would dazzle them and you could hit them with a stick. I remember, as well, one night I was lying in a bed and a snake fell onto the mosquito net. I was in Palestine at the time and thought a terrorist had lobbed a grenade into the room. But I thought “If it is going to go off, it goes off, I’m not getting out of bed!” The next morning, the Palestinian guard came round, whilst I went off for breakfast, and he found the snake coiled up in the warmth of my blankets. When I came back, he’d already hit it with the butt of his rifle and laid this four foot snake out on the floor. We’d get eaten alive by mosquitoes, too, quite often, especially in Abu Sueir. We would work at night, as often as not, refitting the bombers for an early morning raid. We’d work under arclight, the Sweetwater Canal ran right along the side of the aerodrome and the light would draw the mosquitos right to us. There were bigger animal pests, too. There were a lot of stray dogs there, and they had a lot of diseases. Every Tuesday morning, early, I had to go around with a rifle and shoot any strays. On one particular day, I was doing my rounds and some wild dogs were running across the field. So I got my rifle and shot all three of them. When I got closer, to collect the bodies and burn them, I saw that one of the dogs was an alsatian. It was only then that I realised that only two of the dogs were wild, and they were chasing the alsatian. The alsatian was the pet of the Chief Engineer, and I had shot it, too. The Chief was okay about it, the dog should have been locked up and had gotten loose, but I still felt bad. What ever the problems you dealt with them because you were all in it together. You had comrades. You didn’t fight amongst yourselves, the comradeship was so unique, you stuck together as a unit, you had a great temperament and it all blends in to those harsh conditions. You put your life in everyone else’s hands, so you trust them, you look after each other. It’s hard to understand when you are in another walk of life.
[underlined]Iraq [/underlined]
When the European war ended, there was nothing left for us to do in Egypt, so I was allocated to another post and taken into the Navy Fleet Air Arm. I was sent to Basra, in Iraq: RAF Shaibah. There wasn’t much of anything there, before the RAF got there. It was built for the war. They were short on fitter-armourer generals. There were only five of us there. When you were a fitter general it meant that you could do everything. The work ranged right from the cameras that were fitted along side the guns for reconnaissance and records, to the fluid for the hydraulic systems that operated the turrets. You had to bleed and feed that fluid at different times of the day because it would expand and contract with the big temperature ranges you got in the desert.
[page break]
I taught some of the local Iraqi army how to shoot. They had guns but they didn't have any proper training on how to shoot correctly. Every Friday afternoon I would take these guys to the range and teach them how to sight up a gun, how to adjust the fore- and back-sights to correct the bias. The foresights would often take a bashing, being on the tip of the barrel, and the men would be rough with the guns and knock the irons. Teaching the Iraqis to keep the gun sights lined up meant the difference between being able to hit their targets and missing by miles. One day, one of the recruits shot wide at something. The round ricocheted and hit a tractor in the fuel tank. There was a hell of a bang, a lot of shouting in different languages, and a tractor on its side, blown over by the explosion. The Iraqis were friendly, but the Sudanese were a problem. We had an open-air cinema and we were all sitting round watching a film. There was a lot of banging going on and we thought it was the film. That was until someone shouted "Duck!" It was the Sudanese, driving around in the desert nearby, shooting off their rifles! Everyone was more annoyed with the disruption than with the threat of being shot! Then the Japanese war ended and there was no more use for us at all.
[underlined] Coming Home [/underlined]
I was in the RAF until my last posting in Iraq in 1946. I remember leaving Shaibah in a Dakota transport plane, heading back to towards Egypt. We took off and the plane was overloaded with troops and gear. After a short while into the flight, there was a huge sandstorm right in front of us, thousands of feet high and tens of miles wide. We couldn’t get over the top as we were already overloaded, so the pilot tried to go through. I felt the pressure of the sand hit the plane, then there was a huge gust of wind and the plane went over on its side and scythed through the air, dropping like a stone. We were lucky we didn’t hit the deck and all get killed. I thought I’d been out there for four, five years, survived the whole war and nearly been wiped out on my way home! Once I got to Egypt, I came back across the Mediterranean on a ship from Alexandria. It took a week to cross the sea to France, Toulon. I remember the harbour was absolutely packed with ships that had been sunk. (The French had scuttled their own fleet to prevent the Germans from getting their hands on them). The locals had very little to eat, at that point, and almost no bread. On our ship we had so much bread that it had gone stale by the time we arrived in Toulon and it was all thrown overboard into the sea. I don't know why it wasn't saved, but I remember loads of loaves of bread floating in the sea. When we got into port, you couldn't buy even a biscuit! We stayed in what was left of the German’s camp, there, for a week or so before heading to Calais. It was several days across France, by train, mostly at night. I remember it was a moon-lit night as we passed Paris and I could see the Eiffel Tower in the moonlight. I also remember taking a walk out into the fields, when we stopped for an hour at one point, just walking through the crops.
[page break]
We finally crossed the Channel, back into Dover, at about ten at night. The next morning, I was de-mobbed in Stratford. I got my de-mob suit, a quick medical, my money and was out of the gate. As quick as that I was out of the Air force. Done. When you come out of the service, you do feel a bit lost. You had a regimented life in the service, and they looked after you. The RAF looked after you really well, but when you leave, it’s all down to you. You have to completely adjust yourself. It’s probably harder to come out than it ever was going in. You had to work all times of the day. In the service, you are paid to work 24 hours a day and you work for 23 hours 59 minutes. I wasn't relieved to be out of the air force, to be honest. We travelled so much, spent so long in different countries, that I felt immune to much of the feelings of 'home'. No matter where you went, you were the same person, you weren't excited, you weren't depressed, you just went with it. I never thought "Thank God I survived that" or "I made it through". You had to be immune to all of that, if you wanted to keep your sanity. So much happens to you, and you are pushed and pulled in all directions that you just had to go with the flow. It was almost like brain-washing, in a good way. "Do as you are told, go where we tell you and you will be taken care of" was the feeling you got in the RAF. They looked after you, as much as they could. You never knew what the enemy was going to do, but you knew those around you had your back. If you didn't keep that in mind, you would have gone mad. I had about six weeks of leave stored up, when I was de-mobbed, at the end of which they called me and asked if I wanted to go back into the air force. I would have been sent back to Iraq but I’d already done several months over my time. Twice they asked me back, but by then I’d had enough. We all had.
Dublin Core
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Title
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The memories of LAC Fred Perkins
Description
An account of the resource
Covers joining the RAF, training as an engineer and first posting to RAF Christchurch which undertook radar research. Writes of life and flying as observer in Fairey Battle on radar measurement flights. The unit then moved to RAF Defford. Goes on to describe his training as a fitter and armourer and his journey to the Middle East before arriving in RAF Lydda Palestine. Provides details of life and activities in middle east bomber command working on B-24. He then moved back to RAF Abu Sueir in Egypt. Gives account of working on B-24 as well as Spitfire and Hurricane aircraft. Gives account of armourers work on all three aircraft. Provides a paragraph on local wildlife. After the war was sent to RAF Shaibah in Iraq and he describes life and activities there. Concludes with description of journey home.
Creator
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F W J Perkins
Format
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Twelve page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BPerkinsFWJPerkinsFWJv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Worcestershire
England--Pershore
England--Dorset
England--Bournemouth
Egypt
Middle East--Palestine
Israel
Israel--Tel Aviv
England--Hampshire
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
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1941-05-23
1943-08-13
1946-05-26
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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David Bloomfield
aircrew
animal
B-24
Battle
bomb trolley
bombing up
Defiant
demobilisation
fitter airframe
fuelling
ground crew
Hurricane
military living conditions
military service conditions
observer
petrol bowser
RAF Abu Sueir
RAF Defford
RAF Kirkham
RAF Padgate
recruitment
service vehicle
Spitfire
sport
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/154/6672/PWatsonD1511.2.jpg
2a2a1a3209001c85760d14253b393a16
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/154/6672/AWatsonD150811.1.mp3
62a0548539a8a65ad8ee4a134302b2d5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Watson, Don
D Watson
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Don Watson (1448934 Royal Air Force) and four photographs relating to Don Watson's wartime service with 61 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Don Watson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
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2015-08-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Watson, D
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GC: Ok. It’s 11th of August. I’m here, my name is Gemma Clapton, I’m here with Don Watson who served in 61 Squadron and we’re going to do a recording for the oral histories for the International Bomber Command. So if we start at the beginning just tell me how you got in to the RAF and your position within it please.
DW: I was called up in 1941 at the age of nineteen and went to Cardington to be fitted out. And from there to Yarmouth for square bashing. Square bashing took part up and down the promenade. From then on I was posted to Melksham in Wiltshire for my armourer’s course. A seven week course. And from there, after passing out as AC1 was posted to Wheaton in Lincolnshire. Just near Blackpool for the fitter armourer’s course which was a nice station to be on. Close to Blackpool for the gay lights of nights out etcetera. Blackpool Tower and Winter Gardens etcetera. But that finished when I was posted to 61 Squadron. We were then at North Luffenham and on to Woolfox Lodge where the squadron was being kitted out then with Lancasters and transferring from Manchesters. We weren’t there long. And went, were then we were posted to Syerston. A complete contrast to the satellite ‘drome that we’d had at Woolfox Lodge. This was a built barrack block buildings, hangars, workshops. Complete. Everything there for everybody’s convenience and help. And there we were for several months from ‘42 into ’43 during the time of the first thousand bomber raids where everything was put up. Training crews were used and all sorts. And during that period we had one or two incidents. The station commander at that time was very keen on his physical training and unfortunately during that period he passed away. The funeral took place in the funeral procession was passed down from the station to the main road and the crews — the aircrew and the ground crew were lined up on the side of the road to let this cortege passed. And there we were. The ground crew, aircrew, ground crew, air crew. On a humorous note the aircrew lad at the side of me, he said, ‘He’ll have the angels on PT in the morning,’ to much laughter. Here we are. It was his way of saying goodbye. He had the aircrew on PT in the mornings and all that stopped when he finished. And by this time Group Captain Gus Walker took over the station command. And he was a different type of man. Took a great interest in what the armourers and the fitters and everything were doing. Particularly on these big occasions when there was big ops on. He’d be around and looking see that everything was fine. And then on one particular occasion planes were taking off and there was a panic, bombing up again. And Group Captain Walker was in the control tower. At this time 106 Squadron was the other squadron with us at that time. Guy Gibson was the CO of that particular squadron at that time. During this operation on that particular afternoon there was a terrific bang. Group Captain Walker saw it and saw what was going on. Flames. Got in his car and crossed the ‘drome and they realised then that the bomb load had dropped. Four thousand pounder. Twelve cans of incendiaries burning under it and the thing, the whole thing dropped. Group Captain Walker was very concerned and ordered the ground crew to hitch up and pull the plane away. It was all too late. In the meantime the armourers whoever — ground crew, air crew, whoever had gone and ran for the Trent Valley. The plane blew up. Group Captain Walker lost his arm. And the ground crew chap lost his foot. And nobody could tell us then for some time why and how it had all happened and there was all sorts of stories of why it could have happened. Other planes passing by and this and that and the other. But of course the fact was that the controls at the front of the plane where the bomb aimer would control his plane. The bombs that he would drop have got little switches down and he would select each at the back of each of those switches were what we called jettison bars and obviously these jettison, they used these jettison bars if they wanted to chuck everything out quick. The bombs, bars went across so you didn’t have to do it manually. On this occasion, when we’d bombed up, the flight switch which was the main electrical switch would be put on. They’d call out, ‘Stand by. Flight switch going on.’ A chap put it on. Bang. Down it went. It was obvious that jettison bars had been left across. When the switch went down everything went. And so that went on for a time and nobody seemed to know quite what was happening but then we were instructed then, fitters, to make a bracket. A spring loaded bracket that was fitted to the bomb aimers panel so that those bars were always kept in a safe position. The way to push it then would be over a manual spring loaded situation. So it was obvious then that it was the jettison bars that had created the problem. Fortunately there was no loss of life. And for that everybody was very thankful. We, the armourers and everybody else were fitted out with a cycle each in those days. And of course a lot of us had left his bikes by the plane. The bikes went up with the plane and were never replaced. That was another incident that happened during my time at Syerston. Another little incident that happened when we was bombing up again. Flight switches that were bombed up, the corporal in charge said, ‘Stand clear. I’m going to put the flight switch down.’ I was standing just in front of the bomb and I said, ‘Hang on Bob I’ll check the nose fusing.’ So, I was standing on a position where there was no bomb. I heard a click in the circuit. The bomb dropped at my feet. A four thousand pounder. Obviously a short in the circuit and a narrow squeak. Another two inches in and I’d have been under it. Here we go. So, there were several incidents that happened during the time we were at Syerston. We went on then to move to Skellingthorpe. And by that time we joined up with 50 Squadron. Again, another satellite ‘drome. Fitted with accommodation in Nissen huts etcetera. But we got used to the situation very quickly and during the mornings we would be, the fitters would be maintaining the bomb gear. Carriers etcetera and the trolleys etcetera. Ready for operations. As soon as operations came on everybody put their hands to the deck. Fitters, armourers, all the lot got together to, in little groups to do the bombing up of two or three of these particular planes which was quite an experience. And hard work I might add. It was a hard winter. Sometimes it would be night and day. Bomb up. The planes would be then off and back again. Sometimes we would have to do duty to see the planes in. Watch for hang ups etcetera. Guns left unloaded and so on. On one particular occasion the planes came back and apparently the operation had been scrubbed because of high flying, cloud over the target. They came back early and had the delay bombs left on. And unfortunately one of the planes that the aircrew had left. The electricians were in the plane taking out the connections and at that time. Delay. Blew up and caused a load of damage. Again, apart from these particular three or four that were in the plane at the time there was no other life lost. So these are things that happened. To all intents and purposes my war was an easy war. When I compare what other people had to do. My brother went to Burma. Fought with the Japanese. People think VE. Back in to Europe hundreds of people killed, maimed and so on. Aircrew lost every few days. But we, hard work as it was we had an easy war. So I have so much to be thankful for. I was never posted overseas. I was posted overseas on one occasion. It turned out to be a reserve draught. Sent back to the unit and was then screened from overseas posting because the Bomber Command was then the only force that was taking the war to the enemy. And so I stayed with 61 Squadron for the whole of the war. There were different times when we had to move. Skellingthorpe. Had to leave for a few months and we were sent to Coningsby while there was being refittment done at the Skellingthorpe Station. I was there quite a few months and then back again. And on another occasion where I was posted to Waddington for base maintenance again at another few months. So some of these incidents I didn’t view personally. One particular occasion though that I remember bombing up one afternoon. The tractor was bringing three trollies of thousand pound bombs. Unfortunately, they hadn’t been put in their normal cradles but spread out across the bars of the carrier and unfortunately one of them slipped down. The tractor driver wasn’t aware of it and trundled along until the heat from the friction set the bombs off. And fortunately it was a time which was just towards the end of the runway so dispersals were quite far away. Otherwise it could have been an awful lot worse. And so all those bombs went off. The tractor driver and several people passing on the perimeter obviously lost their lives. These incidents were far and few between so most of our time was just hard work. And keeping our eye making sure everything was in place for the bombs to be loaded in a proper manner so that they could do whatever they’d got to do with that. With the bombs. I had a very interesting time in the airforce and then when 1946 came I was quite happy to be released. And five years of service. I don’t think I can tell you anything more detailed about all that.
GC: Well I was just going to ask did you have an engineering background? Is that why you became an armourer? Did you then carry it over?
DW: No.
GC: After the war as well? Or —
DW: No. I was a printer. An apprentice printer. And I went back to printing after the war.
GC: So there was no engineering.
DW: No.
GC: Nothing at all.
DW: No. No. It was a very intensive course. You had to make all sorts of bits and pieces that had to fit one another. You just got through. I got AC1 on the armourer’s course and fortunately it turned out I was top of the entry there but I only finished up AC2 on the fitter’s course. Fortunately, after I got on the squadron one of the armourer, one of the armourer sergeants suggested that I should go for a trade examination with the station armour officer which he did. And although I was being asked to go to AC1 he gave me LAC. And a few months after that my corporal tapes came through from records. Much to the dismay of several of my colleagues. In fact one of the fitters on the plane said one day when I was out doing a fitting job, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I see you’ve got your corporal’s stripes. Do you come out, do the come out on clothing parade no then.’ No. A little bit of humour. So that was my luck really. So [unclear]
GC: What was it like? Would you mind, sort of, just describing what the camaraderie, for want of a better description, was like.
DW: Marvellous. You couldn’t wish for better. No. Everybody was more than happy to work together. And I don’t remember of any incidents of real fall out. I could tell a story of one of the lads that came back after his, after he’d had his night out and he’d been away for some time. He came back and he was a little bit worse for wear. And he was causing a lot of trouble in the billet and he had a broken bottle and he had that in front of me and I was trying to settle it down because I was in charge, NCO in charge. With great difficulty but managed to settle it all down. But apart from incidents like that nothing. Nothing. Other than just got on with the job and everybody’s company was important.
GC: Were you although you was based in this country were you aware of the bigger picture? Were you aware of — what kind of information — what stories were you getting about the war going on elsewhere?
DW: Not an awful lot to be honest. It only come through in drips and drabs about when we, when the invasion was starting. We didn’t know until that particular night that the operations had started. And I was on duty that particular night and the planes came back and the aircrews came back with their stories. And the actual invasion had started then but until then we wouldn’t have known.
GC: So although that’s obviously relating to D-day — on a normal ops how much information were you given relating to an op? I mean besides obviously what you were arming the planes up for. Did you know where the planes were going? Did you know?
DW: No.
GC: You didn’t.
DW: No. We never knew. We didn’t know where they were going. We knew when they came back where they’d been. But we didn’t know where they were going.
GC: What about after the war. Did you just —
DW: After the war Skellingthorpe was sort of disbanded to a large degree. We was posted off to different places. I went, I didn’t go far. I went to Bardney in Lincolnshire which was just up the road really. And I was posted there to a care and maintenance situation. They was just getting rid of all the bomb gear and what have you and so on. Put away really. Carted away. So I was there for some time and during that period the Japanese war was still on and I was then posted to what they called the Tiger Force. Ready for moving out to Japan. And I had the inoculations and leave and all that ready for it. And then the Hiroshima bomb. Hiroshima bomb arrived and that was the finish and it was all cancelled so I never got out the country.
GC: So you served your entire –
DW: My entire time was spent in England. Yeah.
GC: I know this is probably going to be a delicate subject, but the planes are held with affection. Were they your planes? How did you relate to the planes rather than the aircrew?
DW: Well. Being a fitter armourer I wasn’t part of each flight if you know what I mean. B flight, A flight all had their own armourers to deal with each flight. Did their DIs — daily inspections. Etcetera. So they’d been more intimate with their particular planes than we were as fitter armourers who moved about. All around the squadron to all the different planes for different reasons. To deal with our bomb equipment etcetera. So I didn’t have a close relationship to any one plane, but we were pretty close to each one as we got used to bombing each one of these planes up. And terribly sad when they went missing but then we just got on with the job and bombed the next one up.
GC: You say you was a bomb armourer.
DW: Yeah.
GC: Did you not get a little bit nervous?
DW: No. No. There was — no, because you realised the potential of the things. They’d all got their safety pins and what have you in place as it were until the last minute as it were and then you took the pins out and that was it and that was fine. On that particular — when that bomb dropped at my feet I was a bit worried then I suppose. A chap came out. He thought I was squashed under it. I wasn’t and he said hang on a minute I’ll put the pins back in because by that time I’d pulled the safety pins out and he said I’ll get the pins back in. And of course I was all of a shake. The flight sergeant came along, he said, ‘Oh well. Let’s get on with the next plane then.’ And you think, ‘Thank you very much.’ So lucky again.
GC: Well luck was obviously on your side.
DW: It was.
GC: See, that’s the thing. The attitude seems to be that’s what we did.
DW: That’s right.
GC: That’s what we were trained to do.
DW: That’s all. Yeah.
GC: We did our job.
DW: That’s all it was. Yeah.
GC: Yeah.
DW: I mean I think if it had been otherwise you wouldn’t have done it would you?
GC: So what was, I mean obviously you were based in Lincolnshire. What was life like in 1940s Lincolnshire? Was it rural?
DW: Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, course it was. And Lincoln was a [pause] we were fortunate Skellingthorpe was just two miles from Lincoln. We could, we could walk to Lincoln. We used to get the buses of course but we’d go there when ever chance and it was an overall NAAFI that catered for everybody. So there was a big meeting place for people to run into and chat to and people that you met on other squadrons and different associations. Different courses and what have you. Yes. Yes, we enjoyed it.
GC: Was it how we imagine it? Was it a big social?
DW: Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely.
GC: Is that how you met?
DW: No. Not in — ten years after. I think. 1951 before I met Margaret before we were married. Yes, it was a long while after. The war, the war had gone a long while by the time I met Mel. 1941. I came out in ’46. I was twenty four then. I thought right I’ve been in the air force five years. I’ll have five years without now. And so I got married in 1951. Yeah.
GC: Still married.
DW: Yeah. I went back to print. Didn’t enjoy print a lot but I was very involved in the music industry. Playing with the Salvation Army Band. And got to know enough about it to go and do some instruction and worked in Essex County and Southend Music Services for twenty five years. Teaching the kids. And when that finished the kids came to me. For the last four or five years I’ve been having pupils come to me on a Saturday morning and we progressed from there. But I’ve just had to give it up this term because my eyesight’s not good enough to do it anymore. But I’ve had a good go.
GC: Good.
DW: Ninety three now so it’s time to give up.
GC: Oh we never give up.
DW: Well I’m not going to give up.
GC: No.
DW: But I had to give that bit up because it just wasn’t possible anymore.
GC: I mean is there anything [pause] I mean I wouldn’t say would you do it again because it was service but —
DW: To be honest I wish I’d stayed in the service. And I would have liked to have been re-mustered to musician. But then the war ended. Everybody was going home. I’d got a band that my dad was bandmaster of. He wanted me back, so I came back. But I really should have stayed and done my time as a musician. That’s something I’ve regretted doing but other things take their place don’t they?
GC: Would you — well you say you would have liked to have stayed. What was it like coming back? Coming back from a regimented existence to normal life.
DW: I didn’t think too much about it because squadron life wasn’t quite the same as it would be in barrack life somehow or other. We were quite dispersed. We weren’t quite so regimented in those times as the army would be etcetera. We did our parades and all that sort of thing but it was a freer atmosphere than it would have been in a closed barrack situation.
GC: How do you feel now that the memorials are being made? Because the Bomber Command were technically the forgotten boys.
DW: Well its more than time isn’t it? And it’s sad that with all the effort that went in to those years of continual bombing on Mr Churchill’s instructions. Mr Harris, Bomber Harris never got the recognition that he deserved. Bomber Command never got the recognition it deserved. It’s taken all this time for people to come to terms with it and got it together. And thankfully now we’ve got two memorials now which will be there forever won’t they?
GC: Yeah.
DW: Because there was no, there was no Bomber Command medal or anything like that. There was an aircrew medal and the the medals for different campaigns. The European one was — the aircrew boys would get that, but we wouldn’t get any of that. We only just got the defence medal. The defence medal was green with two black lines on it and one of the wags who obviously hadn’t been away so much as me, he said, ‘You know what those two black lines represent?’ ‘No’. He said, ‘That’s are the railway lines you go home on every weekend you get the chance.’ So that, yeah. I was home pretty often. We used to have twenty four hour pass. We could be there one night and stay overnight and back the next day. And we could write our own pass out and sign it ourselves. All very useful.
GC: Ok. I think we’ll take a break. Let’s take a breather.
DW: A cup of tea
GC: A cup of tea.
DW: I don’t know whether –
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Don Watson
Identifier
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AWatsonD150811
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
Creator
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Gemma Clapton
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-08-11
Format
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00:31:43 audio recording
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Donald Watson was working in the print industry before he joined the Royal Air Force in 1941. After training he served as an armourer with 61 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
61 Squadron
bomb trolley
bombing
bombing up
dispersal
ground personnel
incendiary device
Lancaster
Manchester
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Syerston
RAF Woolfox Lodge
service vehicle
tractor
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/109/2425/LGreenLC1318527v.1.pdf
b5e686d98ddbb0320085b55c6d541553
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Green, Leonard
Len Green
L C Green
Description
An account of the resource
Twelve items. The collection relates to the service of Warrant Officer Leonard C Green (1318527 Royal Air Force) and consists of his log book, correspondence, a newspaper cuttings, four photographs and a foreign languages phrase book. Leonard Green flew Lancasters with 50 and 61 Squadrons from RAF Skellingthorpe and completed 19 daylight and night time operations.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Mark Boother and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-01
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Green, LC
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leonard Green’s navigator’s, air bomber’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGreenLC1318527v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Description
An account of the resource
Navigator's air bomber’s and air gunner’s flying log book for Flight Sergeant Leonard Green, wireless operator, covering the period from 15 December 1942 to 20 January 1946. He was stationed at RAF Manby, RAF Wigtown, RAF Bitteswell, RAF Bruntingthorpe, RAF Swinderby, RAF Syerston, RAF Skellingthorpe and RAF Coningsby. Aircraft flown in were, Dominie, Proctor, Anson, Wellington, Manchester and Lancaster. He flew a total of 23 operations, 13 night with 50 Squadron and 3 day and 7 night with 61 Squadron. He also flew operations Exodus with 61 Squadron and Dodge to Bari, Italy with 83 Squadron. Targets were, Hannover, Dusseldorf, Modane, Berlin, Leipzig, Frankfurt, Brunswick, Magdeburg, Bohlen, Gravenhorst, Dortmund-Emms Canal, Lutzkendorf, Wurzburg, Bremen, Wesel, Nordhausen and Molbis. His pilots on operations were Pilot Officer Lundy and Flight Lieutenant Phillips. The log book also contains many newspaper clippings relating to the targets attacked, aircraft flown in and events of the war and post war. It also contains pictures of the crew positions of Navigator, Bomb Aimer and Wireless Operator.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Scotland
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
France--Modane
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Würzburg
Italy--Bari
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
Germany--Böhlen
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Nordhausen (Thuringia)
France
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1943-10-18
1943-11-03
1943-11-10
1943-11-11
1943-11-18
1943-11-19
1943-11-22
1943-11-26
1943-11-27
1943-12-02
1943-12-03
1943-12-20
1943-12-21
1943-12-29
1943-12-30
1944-01-02
1944-01-03
1944-01-14
1944-01-15
1944-01-20
1944-01-21
1944-01-21
1944-01-22
1945-02-19
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-02-24
1945-03-14
1945-03-15
1945-03-16
1945-03-17
1945-03-22
1945-03-23
1945-04-04
1945-04-05
1945-04-06
1945-04-08
1945-04-09
1945-04-26
1945-05-06
1945-05-12
1945-05-14
1945-07-17
1945-09-09
1945-10-16
1945-10-20
1945-12-14
1945-12-20
1660 HCU
29 OTU
50 Squadron
61 Squadron
83 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing up
Cook’s tour
Dominie
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Manchester
military service conditions
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
Proctor
RAF Bitteswell
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Coningsby
RAF Manby
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Wigtown
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/548/8809/PLeedhamA1601.1.jpg
a1fcd561dc38bb5f13c7c11bb63b26d3
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/548/8809/ALeedhamA160514.2.mp3
fcfd2bdafa3b86d6a03bfa38ab6d6a42
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leedham, Alma
Alma Lucy Muriel Leedham
A L M Leedham
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Leedham, A
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Alma Lucy Muriel Leedham (1922 - 2020, 455833 Royal Air Force), memoirs of herself and her husband Warrant Officer Terence Leedham an armourer who also served on a number of bomber command stations. She served as a driver in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force stationed at RAF Scampton and East Kirkby.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alma Leedham and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-14
2017-05-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HH: Ok, it’s Saturday the fourteenth of May 2016 and I am Heather Hughes and I am conducting an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre with Alma Leedham and also present at the interview are Alma’s son, Richard and daughter in law, Jane. Thank you, Alma, very much for agreeing to talk to us today. We are in Richard and Jane’s home in Holbury, Southampton. Alma, I wonder if we could start off this interview with you talking a little bit about your very early life and where you were born and grew up and went to school.
AL: I [unclear], well, I was born in Fulham, which is just outside London, actually South Wessex, and of course I stayed there, I was more or less still there when the war started and when I joined up all I wanted to do was drive. I loved driving and I still do. But I was sent up to Blackpool and we had civilian teachers which turned out to be a bit of a mistake because three or four of them got picked up on a smash-and-grab raid one night [laughs], well, we didn’t know anything about it, us girls that were lonely we were being put up in local houses up there and that was the first time I saw a ballet, there was a ballet on at the theatre up there and a couple of lads took me to see it, so that was the first time, but I’m digressing now, but
HH: Not at all.
AL: You know, being there and thinking about it now, it’s way back in my past really see, so if I jump about you’ll have to excuse me.
HH: Not a problem.
AL: So, the thing is, I did have a boyfriend who was in the RAF and when he disappeared I joined up so I’m trying to remember how old I was then, I was think of I was probably eighteen, possibly nineteen but I think it was more like eighteen, and they send me up to Blackpool and that’s where the drivers were, learning to drive. I had a father who was mad about motor and always had been, he’s always been in the business so he told me how to double declutch, which some people these days have never heard of, but in those days we did, anyway, now where have I got to? This is it, my memory’s sort of, it collapses from time to time and I go from one bit to another. The thing is when the war was starting I was already working for Hawker aircraft on the Hurricane. So, I was already slightly involved with the war but when, I’m just thinking, when I decided to join up, they sent me up to Blackpool to learn to drive properly and that was absolutely beautiful because it was the springtime and we were doing most of our training in the upper areas of North Wales and it was really wonderful up there, Rhododendrons all the way, you know, because it was sort of, really, this time of the year, May, and then of course we had a bit of collapse because the trainers, the drivers that we had, who were civilians, several of them got picked up on a smash-and-grab raid, so the whole thing started to collapse and then, there’s a famous comedian who was a sergeant and he used to take us in the basement.
US: Max Wall.
AL: Max Wall, that was him and he was our sergeant at the time and he wasn’t always funny, I’ll tell you that, but you see, the thing is there were breaks and us girls when we had a break, we used to pop into Woolworth and buy music and sit at the back we’d all [unclear], you know, going like this [unclear], not listening to him at all, but, anyway, that’s beside the point and so eventually of course we all got posted off to different places because there was a break when they decided that because of the disruptive learner, teacher drivers that we had, we would have to start again so we all gone, there were more than fifty of us and we went south somewhere and I can’t quite remember but it was sort of somewhere, sort of [unclear] with northern Wales that we went and they put us through psychology test, so we were sort of listening for noises and we had pieces of paper in front of us with a pencil on one hand and a pen in the other one and so, you had to do all the movements that you were doing if you were driving, so for instance if you were, if the instructor at the front sitting on the [unclear] left hand turn, because he was facing you, it was a right-hand turn for you, so [laughs], so we had pieces, it must have taken about three or four days when we were going through this business of the paperwork and to test what you, how good your sight was and how good your hearing was cause you had to listen for a horn and well, things like that and if he suddenly put his hand out, you put a right hand turn because he was doing a left hand turn, but it was alright for us. It was quite interesting but we were only there four days and then we got sent off again and so I went to, where did I go to? I went to Blackpool. We were, yeah, that was, I think I got a bit mixed up somewhere there but anyway when we finished our training I was sent with three, four other ladies, we were all new to the RAF and we went up to somewhere on the east coast of Scotland where we were collecting new lorries, there were new lorries who were just going into use so when we got up there, the first thing we had to do was to clean the lorries cause you couldn’t see through the windows or anything so we had to clean them up and when all these lorries were ready, they were about, I think they were about six, seven or maybe even eight and we had the business of keeping the right distance outside town from each other and the right distance, when you, you could close up when you, and I can’t remember what the distances were, so you could close up when you were in town but all this time we were normally driving just lorries, small lorries, what you call a thirty-hundred-weight, and then of course the news eventually came through that the postings were coming, when everything went wrong, they were going to send us down to London but before we could go, they stopped us and said, we are sending you to somewhere else and I can’t remember where that is now, but when we finished our training there and they decided we were ok, that’s when I got sent to Scampton but there were only two of us went to Scampton and I can’t even remember the other girls name and of course it was when I got there 83 Squadron were in the process of moving south cause they’d been at Scampton and they were with 39 Squadron. 39 Squadron were flying Manchesters which only had the two engines, they weren’t as good as the Lancasters, so they went out of action fairly soon and I never really had anything to do with those but when we were posted to Scampton there were the empty, that’s the motor place where the, all the girls and the men who were drivers went down there and you would only do half a day because you’d be, you’d have two, at least two other drivers, learners, same as yourself, and we’d have one teacher each, they were civilians and we had one teacher each and you, he decided when you got out and come, somebody got out the backseat and came in and did the driving, so he decided all that sort of stuff and because at that time we were living in what you would call holiday houses, you know, the people went to stay on a holiday at Blackpool and there’s all these land ladies with all their open doors and of course the RAF and the army, they just overtook all the places over and I remember the first time we went, we were right up in the loft area so when I woke up in the morning, I’m trying to stand, trying to sit up, and I hit my head on the [unclear] ceiling but I mean there were seven of us in that attic and so we did get a big post. And then there was the night when we got, I can’t remember her name, one of the other girls, at night we had to be in by ten, but there was a fish and chip shop down the road and we could get lemonade there as well, so we used to get the stuff and take it back but the lady who was in charge of the house, it was her house, she had very, very strict rules about being back by ten and we were only about one minute past ten and she wouldn’t let us in, so the girls who were in the top floor so [unclear] stream down we passed fish and chips and bottles of lemonade up to them but we couldn’t get in ourselves and there was a corporal who was supposed to be in charge of us and she was very weak, she, when they, the owner of the house sort of told her, you can do this and you can do that and can do the other but not this, you know, and so she laid the law down and of course we got to this point where we couldn’t get in one night cause we arrived back one minute after eleven so we had to go three streets away to one of the houses where we had a WAAF office there with officers and sergeants and all that sort of thing, tell them what had happened to us and so they said, well, we will get that sorted out so, they sent for a lorry, it was an RAF lorry to come and pick us up and take us back [unclear] that they let us in [laughs] and that’s what they did, they did [unclear] but as I say, that was just the early days and then once we got posted, we all went different ways so, some of the girls that I knew then I never ever met again. So, you just sort of accepted what came, there was nothing else you could do anyway but I think when you are young, that doesn’t matter, does it? And you know, we more or less behaved ourselves and as I say, that was the first time I saw a ballet, there was a ballet in Blackpool on at the theatre and two of the lads decided to take me and I don’t remember much about it, it was Swan Lake, that’s all I know but from then on you know, you saw, you just waited to see what was gonna happen and when I got sent to Scampton the first thing I had to do was not driving a car anymore, you’re driving a tractor, so that’s when I started taking the bombs out to the Lancasters, so.
HH: And you used a tractor for that?
AL: Yeah. So, I’d have, the maximum number of trailers on the back was six, you weren’t allowed to have more, with six could do you two bombloads, see so when you went up to the bomb dump my mate she worked in, Vivian, she worked in the bomb dump, she knew where we were going, we weren’t told, we were just told which aircraft to take the loads to and you could pick up two loads on six trolleys, so you had a four thousand pound bomb on the trailer behind you and the other two trailers would have incendiary bombs on them, crossways on the trolleys. And so you took out six and you delivered them to the two aircraft that they told you to do and then you went back again, collected another lot and that sort of thing. But I suppose really if you jumped far ahead there was a night when we, you know, we had a fog, and we blew up one of our Lancasters, it was fully bombed from the night before [laughs].
HH: What happened?
AL: Well nobody was hurt or anything, in fact it was rather funny because when this aircraft, you see the aircraft had been lined up on the sort of semicircle ready to take off the night before and of course the rule was that if the Germans got [unclear] that we were coming, it would be cancelled. At this particular night it was cancelled and when we went out the next morning, fog everywhere, you couldn’t see a hand in front of your face. And so there were people doing [unclear] and what we didn’t know at the time, we found out about later was that one of the lads and armourer, he got into the aircraft because when the aircraft was taking off and it was fully loaded, it also had a flash, now the flash came from a chute near the back end of the aircraft and when, I don’t know about the timing and all that sort of thing but that flash, when it went, gave them the light to take a photograph of what they had hit, so it was all very complicated really, but anyway that’s who I was. Oh dear, I’m running out of breath I think. It’s, you know I’m trying to go back to those days cause it’s a long time ago.
HH: It is a long time ago.
AL: And now I’m trying to remember.
HH: So, how, were you just at Scampton or did you serve at any other base? You were just at Scampton?
AL: I was just at Scampton because
HH: So you got to know it very well.
AL: I did. That was, we used to have a dance, it was generally on a Sunday night, this was the non-officers, they had their own particular areas, the same as they had their own officer’s mess, we wouldn’t expect to go up to any of those places, and so we sort of all bumped in together and it seemed to work out quite well. It was.
HH: What were your living quarters like in Scampton?
AL: Oh wait a minute, what was that like? I’m just trying to think where I slept in, oh, yes, it was nearly two miles down the road off Scampton, coming out of Lincoln it would be on the right, I’ve forgotten the name of the village but a lot of us slept down there in sort of Nissen huts and that was a bit awkward because if you wanted to go to the loo you’ll had to, put your shoes on of course, you had to get out of the Nissen hut that you were in, you had to walk across a ditch which had a white plank on it, so you walked across the ditch [unclear] on and though that was sort of loosely put up, you know, for the first to use and that sort of thing, so no problems there expect the girl in the bed next to me had [unclear], I mean, she was a fat girl and she came from Bradford, and I remember she used to call it Bratford, I said it’s not Bratford it’s Bradford, there’s a d in there, anyway she had a [unclear] and they cartered her off but I never knew what happened there but you see, she was a tubby girl and most of us and so most of us didn’t even realise she was expecting, things like that do happen, you know.
HH: And what was the food like?
AL: Mh?
HH: What was the food like?
AL: As far as I remember, it was acceptable. We had a sort of, there was a general, in the main building there was a cooking, really, not cooking, ah, what’s the word?
HH: Canteen.
AL: Yes, they turned it into a canteen up there, so that we could use it and of course in the evening it was used as a theatre, so we had a big screen put up in one corner and my friend Vivian, the one who did the bomb dump, I remember one night, she was sitting there, she was sat on the window sill and there was this cowboy thing on, there was this white horse and somebody was shouting something about the horse and Vivian stood there and she said, come on [unclear]! [unclear] this white horse. And so everybody started laughing so, they said, do you want us to start again? We said, no, carry on from where you are [laughs].
HH: And how much, how much did you have to do with the ground crew and the air crew?
AL: The only relationship, oh, we can’t call it a relationship, but the only people I really knew were, I didn’t know any of the air crew but we all thought that was a good idea because they didn’t always come back but the ground crew, we got to know those that especially the armourers that worked on the stuff because we used to take the bombs out on the trolleys and but you should hear their language if you hadn’t got the trolleys straight when you had to load them out, right under the bomb bay, see, so you took the tractor right the way round and you came in from the side towards the front end cause you couldn’t get out the back way anyway. And so that was my [unclear].
HH: And you said that you’d met your husband as a result of being in Bomber Command.
AL: Oh yes, now, I did know him because he was a flight sergeant and he had sixty men working for him and he was in the armoury department, you see, because I was on the bombs and that sort of thing so I didn’t get to know him and it was so sad one morning, we were, the girls were in the hangar, some waiting to go out on different jobs and he came in and there were tears, I said, what’s the matter? Cause I didn’t even know that he was, that his name was Terry then, I called him the same as everybody else cause he, he was this big lad, he was six foot two, and I sad, what on earth’s the matter? He said, I have just been round to one of the planes that was out last night, he said, the rear gunner was shot up, he said, and I went round the back and there’s just bits of him. He said, I couldn’t bear to look at it and there were tears and he was a flight sergeant but there you are [unclear] sort of thing but over the years, you know, we sort of got to know each other, especially if I was on night duty and he was on night duty too. So, out on the airfield there were three huts, hut number one, two and three, and you could always go to one of these huts because they had these stoves and the stoves there were on the top and I used to go down the cook house and get some bread and we made toast up there, you see, so we were never short of something [unclear] and they used to say when I got, when I used to get down the cook house, you didn’t come for more bread? I said, yes [laughs]. And I don’t remember whether we ever managed to get any marge to go with it, certainly wasn’t any butter. [unclear] got some marge sometimes. But, you know, it’s, I’ve gone off my track again, haven’t I?
HH: You were talking about getting to know your husband.
AL: Oh yes, he, well, mainly I suppose it was because he was working on the, he was, you see, there were four hangars but it was hangar number three and hangar number four were where the armourers worked, he was a flight sergeant at the time and so the only time he ever had to bring his lads in, he would sit in the front with me, in the front, that’s the lorry I was driving and [laughs], one night he came back with the lorry and while I had been out on the airfield, they’d taken one of the Lancasters and they towed it by the tail, put it in the hangar and the doors, the hangar gates or doors, which were, they were normally open when I left, when I came back they were like this and I got, I got probably about twelve armourers in the back of the lorry with all their gear, you know, the winding and bits, so I got them and when I had got round to the hangar and the hangar which had been wide open there was a [unclear] one so I didn’t realise that what they’d done was to tow a Lancaster in there by the tail, so when I drove in [unclear] my lads that were in the back of the lorry got the propeller piece that was in the downward bit, it went over the roof and where I was driving but the covered bit where the lads were [laughs], it went back and it bent all the way [unclear] shouting at me [unclear] [laughs]. But things like that happened.
HH: I’m sure. Well, things were not as well-lit in those days apart from everything else, weren’t they?
AL: Most of the time you couldn’t see where you were going.
HH: Exactly.
US: You were going to tell the story of flash?
AL: Flash? Oh yeah.
US: Who [unclear]
AL: When we the, when we blew him up?
US: Yeah. When you blew the Lancaster up.
AL: Oh, well, this, on this particular night there was going to be a raid on Germany and the aircraft, we got them all loaded up and everything and whether the news, cause sometimes the news of what we were doing would get through to the Germans and if they found out, I mean, we never knew any details or anything but if that happened, the whole thing was off and everything like that, so on this one particular night, everything was ready but there was a very thick fog the next morning and when we got to work, there was, it was a bit difficult, we had to go out onto the aircraft, we had armourers and I mean, I didn’t even know about it at the time but in the aircraff where the bombs are, they are in sort of the middle of the aircraft but behind that towards the tail, inside there’s a chute and the chute had, I suppose you could call it a bomb, it’s like a small one
US: It’s a flash [unclear]
AL: But it was the flash really and it went, it went into a chute so that what happened, when the aircraft were in the air and they got the place that they were gonna bomb land, this flash, I mean I don’t know any of the details, but the flash was what gave them the light to take a photograph of what they’d hit.
HH: That’s it.
AL: So, as I say, I don’t know any of the details there.
HH: What happened to it in the fog?
AL: Eh?
HH: What happened to it in the fog?
AL: Well, this was the problem, the whole thing was cancelled the night before, when we got to work the next morning, Cookie, who was the warrant officer in charge of the armourers and the, what we called the downstairs people [laughs], in charge of me as well, he had got very drunk the night before, which wasn’t unusual [laughs] and he sent, which he should never have done, he sent some blokes out to defuse the flashes, see, so, there was a case, they, so they had to get into the aircraft and the flash was, long thing about that, and it was about that wide and it went, and that was what took a photograph of what they hit and what he did, Cookie sent one of the blokes out to defuse one of these things or more than one but he ignored the fact that no one below the rank of corporal was allowed to do that and this bloke, he was just a leading aircraftsman, he was no rank at all and he put the switch the wrong way and he fired it so we had, he shouted as soon as he’d done it, now we had at that time because it was the next morning there was fog everywhere and there were the lads who had all the instruments and stuff and they were, had trolleys and when I was driving the lorry, I was seeing somebody running across the ground towards the hangar, two blokes and they hadn’t got the sense to leave the trolley and go [laughs], they were still pushing the trolley along [laughs], running across the grass towards the hangar with this trolley, I thought that was really funny [laughs]. But I’ve lost myself again.
US: The flash went off at the Lancaster, set it on fire.
AL: Oh yes, this was when
HH: Set the aircraft on fire.
AL: The switch, this switch that was supposed to switch the flash off, he turned it the wrong way apparently. But he knew what he’d done as soon as it happened because the flash dropped out of the bottom of the aircraft, it was at the tail end, and you shouted, jump everybody, the flash is gone! You see, we had the instrument people working up in the, where the pilot and the navigator, where those people would be, and the mid upper gunner, he would be up there and there was another one, there was the front gunner, he would be up there and these men were up there, you see, and the aircraft was on fire down the bottom with this thing, see, so, they jumped out where they were and people got away from the aircraft and of course in no time at all, not only was this Lancaster on fire but because overall wing to wing, the Lancs on either side were on fire.
HH: And were they are still fully bombed up?
AL: Oh yeah. And but you see, the thing was, because we couldn’t see properly because the fog was so thick and the airfield at Scampton is like this so that if you are on the far side, you can’t even see the hangars. So, it was more than a little difficult but when people realised what was happening, they sent a message out to the pilots to come and move their aircraft, so we did get most of them moved but the middle five, the three of them didn’t belong to us, they belonged to 120 Squadron [laughs], which is a bit of a laugh to start with if it did belong to us and you know, so it was sort of case of blowing up and all this sort of thing and of course in those days Perspex in the [unclear] windows was absolutely marvellous stuff and the lads used to make all sorts of things [unclear], cigarette lighters and stuff like that, and cigarette cases, they used to use this stuff like as I saw any, you know, there was a smash, they pick up the bits and take them home and use them. So, I mean, not everything went to waste, but they were exciting days.
HH: So there a lot of aircraft, lot of aircraft got lost in that incident.
AL: Oh yes,
US: Three, wasn’t it?
AL: Mh?
US: You lost three.
AL: Yeah, we did, we lost three, because, you see, the thing is when the first thing went down the chute and the bloke said, bombs away, clear it everybody, everybody was jumping and running but we were in thick fog and so because the aircraft from wingtip to wingtip, once the centre one which didn’t belong to us, was on fire, the ones on either side were in no time at all were on fire as well and what we had to do, we had to send for the pilots, to come and take the aircraft on the edges away, so we were left with, I wonder if three or five, I think it was five aircraft there, they wouldn’t, they couldn’t get on the, sort of the end of the [unclear] because they were too near the ones that were burning, so I had taken the four thousand pound bombs out the night before and what happened, we had the three centre ones blew up but the ones that were burning on the outside, we’d got the fire hoses putting them out and Vivian, she was out there with me on her tractor and we were waiting for the bombs to cool down so we could take them back to the bomb dump afterwards.
HH: Quite a dangerous job.
AL: We didn’t think so at the time [laughs].
HH: What was it like, Alma, on operation’s nights, when there was an operation?
AL: Well, was no different to any other night, really.
HH: Did you tend to be more tense, to wait for planes to come back?
AL: No. No, the thing is, we had to get used to the way things were, that was it, uhm, I mean, most of the girls like me, we had an unwritten law, you don’t get involved with the pilots or the navigators, people like that, cause they may not come back and a lot of them didn’t. And you see, as I say, there was this one night when Terry or morning when Terry turned up and there was only bits of this bloke because the Germans had got, you know, a really good bomb and, but you see, the aircraft itself was so near landing that it managed to land but of course the back end of it was in bits and so was this bloke. So we never got involved with the aircrew, safest not to, the same as when, you see, you had different jobs, sometimes I’ll be driving the tractor and taking the bombs out, sometimes I’ll be driving a lorry and taking the men out or bring them back. I just did what I was told.
HH: And you said that you also did the post run between Lincoln and Waddington.
AL: Oh that was, yes, I did, there was, I’ve got some idea that Scampton was a sort of, not exactly a headquarters but it was a bit sort of more up than some of the others so a lot of the secret mail that used to come in it would, I don’t know how it came, whether it was a bloke on a motorbike or something but this mail that came in could not go through the normal post and it had to be taken, see, so, there were occasions when it was my job to take the stuff over to Waddington and sort of drive through Lincoln to do it and then all the way back with fish and chips and they were all waiting in the empty room when we got back [laughs], all waiting for their fish and chips [laughs].
HH: What was, what rank did you obtain, Alma, what was your rank?
AL: [unclear], leading aircraftswoman, that was all. I never even got to corporal.
HH: And your, can you remember your service number?
AL: 455833 [laughs].
HH: Everyone can do that, it’s quite extraordinary. Yeah, it’s wonderful. And how much, what did you do when you had leave duty?
AL: Uhm, leave, I’m just trying to think, I don’t really remember doing anything.
US: Did you go and visit your mum?
AL: Eh?
HH: Did you go home
US: Did you go [unclear] and visit your mum?
AL: Oh I did go home, there was an uncle, actually he was an uncle and aunt of my mum, they lived in Lincoln and I used to go down and have a meal with them sometimes and because of where he was he got some placards which advertised the local theatre in Lincoln, sometimes he would say to me, would you like a couple of tickets? And I’d take on of the girls with me, we’d go down and see a show down there.
HH: It’s lovely.
AL: So that happened several times and do you know, I can’t even remember his name, nor his wife’s name or what they looked like. It’s a long time ago.
HH: Long time ago.
AL: I can’t. No, I don’t.
US: Your great uncle.
AL: Eh?
Us: That would have been your great uncle.
AL: Yes, yeah. But, they were my mum’s uncle and aunt and because when she heard where I was, she sent me out their address and so I went round to see them so when I was going out in the evening going into Lincoln to get fish and chips, oh, actually, I wasn’t going for the fish and chips, I was going to Waddington to deliver their mail and there was a fish and chips on the way back, but you see, all the girls in the empty, they all used to give me a list of what they wanted, now I used to come back with loads of fish and chips [laughs].
HH: Now, you stayed in Scampton till the end of the war, did you?
US: No.
AL: No, no, I didn’t. Cause I got married and had my first baby, in 1944.
HH: Ok, so you got married in, so you, when, after you were married you left Scampton, is that right?
AL: Uhm,
US: No, no, hang on, [unclear] If you want to get things in chronological order
AL: What?
US: If you want to get things in chronological order, you were sort of telling us that, although you’d worked with dad, he was very shy and you didn’t really sort of make that much contact with him although you’d been out, you know the WAAFs and the lads used to go to Lincoln together
AL: Yeah, we did.
US: But you’d always been a bit shy and you never really approached him and then one night there was that incident with the, [unclear] where the undercarriage collapsed and you had to go out, the night with the torch, that story.
AL: I don’t remember an awful lot about it. He was, he and another bloke, were digging underneath
US: The Lancaster, the undercarriage collapsed from take off
AL: The Lancaster, collapsed, the wheels had collapsed and there was, there were loaded bombs in there and so he and a couple of lads, I remember I was driving a lorry that night because somebody was shouting for a torch and there was an officer sitting with me and I said, there’s a torch there and I drove to and he, do you know, this officer got out of the lorry, round the front of it and disappeared and these blokes were down there so I got out of the lorry, picked up the torch and went over to the lads that were working there trying to dig the, you know, the bottom of the aircraft where the bombs were and they did do it, they defused the four thousand pound, but you see, the others
US: They were on time [unclear] the [unclear] had gone off even though
AL: See so, he did that but you see the incendiaries that were all around, I mean, the, [unclear], eleven, eleven boxes of incendiaries right round the main bomb, and of course they weren’t timed or anything, it was just a big bang on the earth that opened them up and that was it. Long time ago.
HH: Indeed.
US: That was the first you really had any real sort of contact with that, wasn’t it? And after that, you got talking or something.
AL: Yeah. And then I discovered he was jealous. And when we went to, we had a dance in the corporal’s mess and one of the blokes that I knew on a flight came across and asked me for a dance, so I went to dance with him, when I came back there was no sign of Terry. And I thought, that’s funny. And I said to one of the blokes, where did Terry go? Don’t know, he said. So I said, oh, never mind. And he turned up about twenty minutes later and I said to him, where have you been? He said, I couldn’t bear to see you with him, he said, I’ve been for a walk. That was it. He was very jealous. So, that was it. But he was lovely.
HH: Good.
AL: yeah.
HH: And you got married in ’43?
AL: Yeah. Twelfth of September.
HH: And where were you after that?
AL: Do you know, you’ve asked me, I don’t really know. I mean, as soon as I started to expect Leslie I had to leave anyway. But
HH: And where did you live when you left the WAAFs?
AL: I must have gone back to Kingston, to mum’s.
US: You did eventually, but after, you talked about living in Nissen huts of the base, at one stage you moved into married quarters at Scampton, didn’t you?
AL: Oh yes,
US: Was it number 18?
AL: Number 18, yes,
HH: So you stayed in married quarters at Scampton for a while
AL: [unclear]
US: And you were back in the same house that you
AL: Yeah, they gave me same house after the war.
HH: Gosh!
US: Oh yeah, that was after the war, that was the same house where you’ve been billeted with all your mates. Yeah, so Leslie was born
AL: Yeah, Leslie was born in a hospital in Birmingham,
US: Oh, ok.
AL: And it was dreadful. They were awful people.
US: So after you were married then, before Leslie was born you then moved to East Kirkby, didn’t you?
AL: The name is familiar, I can’t put a, I can’t remember what it looked like. East Kirkby, the name is very familiar. Was it round the back of the aerodrome?
US: No. No, it’s South Lincolnshire.
AL: South
HH: It’s near Spilsby.
AL: Yeah, I know.
US: Woodhall Spa.
HH: And Woodhall Spa.
AL: I just can’t remember that bit
US: After Scampton, I can’t remember whether you were married at Scampton or not.
AL: No, we were married at my mum’s place.
US: Alright, ok.
AL: [unclear].
US: Yeah, but I can’t remember whether you were still living at Scampton at the time when you were married or not. But at some stage, 57 Squadron transferred from Scampton to East Kirkby.
AL: Ah yes.
US: And you would, If you would remember you were driving the lead lorry that was coming [unclear]
AL: We had no road signs in those days.
HH: They’d all been taken down.
AL: [unclear] didn’t know where you were going and I was driving the lead lorry, I think there was anything up to fifty vehicles and we’d go down all these country lanes with no road names or anything and every so often I’d stop and there’d be a lot of shouting going on behind and they’d say, let us know when you want to turn because we can’t oversee you when you slip off or something and was something about it and I can’t remember that. But
HH: You got there safely, did you?
AL: Yes, yeah. I don’t even remember, I know I was driving lorries then not, I wasn’t driving in fact the only time I ever drove the CO’s car was to turn it round in the CT garage [laughs]. Yeah, I turned it round that’s all. But I did take two officers down to, they had to go to a meeting somewhere and it was south of Lincoln and I remember there was a river nearby but there was a, where you came round there’s a very steep road and then you turned in and I had to stay there, they gave me the money to go to the pictures, and I don’t know where they went for the afternoon and when I got back to the car, they were both waiting for me so I just took them back to camp. Just one of those odd things that happened.
HH: Yeah.
US: When you got to East Kirkby, you were living off the base there, weren’t you? You remember you were living at that pub called The Vanguard?
HH: The Vanguard pub?
US: Across the far side of the airfield.
AL: Yeah. I don’t remember too much about that.
HH: And then after the war, where were you, where did you?
AL: Went home.
HH: Also to London.
AL: Yeah. Or more or less Kingston-on-Thames.
HH: Kingston-on-Thames. Is that where you were living?
AL: Yeah.
HH: Ok.
AL: Yeah, my mum and dad were there, you see, they moved from Fulham up to Kingston.
US: Well, mum had to leave when sort of, I don’t know whether she declared or whether it became apparent that she was expecting, so she had to leave the WAAFs.
HH: Yeah. And then you had a family after the war. And did you stay in Kingston?
AL: Don’t know [unclear]
US: I don’t know what you did, I think you moved back up to Scampton after the war.
AL: Oh probably we did go back to Scampton.
US: Because wasn’t Valerie born at Scampton?
AL: Mh?
US: Wasn’t Valerie born at Scampton or in Lincoln?
HH: Did your husband stay in the armed forces after the war?
AL: Well, he was a permanent man, he joined, he joined when he was sixteen.
HH: So, he stayed on, ok.
AL: Oh yeah. So, wherever he went, I went, so I’ve been to Iraq and
HH: My goodness. Interesting life.
AL: And Singapore, we’ve lived in Singapore and Iraq. And several different places. [unclear] we just moved from one place to another. And if the people who just moved out didn’t wash the pottery and everything properly, you sat [unclear] and did it yourself.
HH: Amazing, yeah.
US: I think, after going back to Scampton, I think your next move was to Iraq in about 1950.
HH: Gosh!
AL: Yes, sounds about right.
US: To a Place called Habbaniya.
HH: Habbaniya. Ok.
US: Which is just outside, which is actually Bagdad. It’s now Bagdad international airport for two years I think.
HH: And did you have your family with you? You took your children with you to Iraq?
AL: Yeah.
US: The girls. I wasn’t born then.
AL: The girls. I had Leslie and Valerie, and Valerie was a little devil. Used to tell her off for swearing. And she would drop something deliberately and then she would look at me and she would say, shit! [makes a spitting sound] [laughs]
HH: [laughs] So you would, a couple of years in Iraq, so you would seen the world, have you?
AL: Yeah, and Singapore, we lived in Singapore for a couple of years.
HH: And then mostly back in this country.
AL: Yeah, but. I’ve had a good time really.
HH: You’ve had such an interesting life.
AL: Yeah.
HH: Well thank you very much, shall we stop the interview now and we thank you, you worked very hard, I’m sorry that you worked so very hard but thank you for all your wonderful stories.
AL: Well, the thing is, I mean it’s, there were probably others that, you know, if I was nudged I would probably remember them.
HH: Well, if you do we can talk some more. Thank you so much. Thank you.
AL: But, such a long time ago, I remember [file missing]
HH: So you dared to walk on the wing of a Lancaster.
AL: Yeah.
HH: And?
AL: Not while it was flying [laughs]
HH: And did you?
AL: Eh?
HH: Did you?
AL: Yeah. I walked out to I suppose within about two foot of the end of the wing.
HH: Quite a long way out.
AL: I was young and daring then. They said to me, you won’t do it, I said, oh yes, I will [laughs].
US2: Did you tell them about the night when the planes flew off to bomb the dams?
AL: The what?
US2: Did you tell Heather about the night when the planes went off on their mission to bomb the dams?
AL: Oh when they did the Dam busters, yeah [laughs]
US2: [unclear] your friend Vivian.
AL: No, when you say my friend Vivian, she worked in the bomb dump, she knew where aircraft were going. We never did. We would just, we just took the tractor and we would pick up the trailers and Vivian would say, well, you take this to F for Freddy, or G for George or whatever, and you took it to that aircraft and just left, left it there and after they had bombed up the aircraft after the, the lads that did the, oh, the armourers. After the armourers had finished doing their bit, I forgot what I was going to say now,
HH: This is about the Dam busters and your friend Vivian.
AL: Yeah.
HH: The dams raid.
AL: Yeah, because I said to Vivian, when the Dam busters went off that night, there were nineteen of them and only eleven came back and I can remember, I got a photograph of, I don’t know where it is of Vivian stood there, somebody took a photograph, wasn’t me cause I didn’t have the camera, yeah, she, cause I said to her, she was out there the next morning and when we heard that nine hadn’t come back and I remember saying to Vivian, you didn’t tell me it was the real thing! She said, well, I wasn’t supposed to. That was it. I’m sorry really that I’ve didn’t keep up with her cause I’d like to, you know, I’ve liked to keep in touch after the war but we didn’t, we just went our own separate ways, very well. But, very well.
HH: Can you remember what was Vivian’s surname in those days?
AL: Winsome. Yeah. She’s very tall, she’s much taller than me. And she was the one who found out what bit of the tractor engine you had to tie a string on if you wanted to go faster than five miles an hour. And so she [unclear] my mind up, so that I could do it but you, you could only get up to, it was only two or three miles faster than we could normally do. And
HH: I also asked you what your maiden name was and what were you known as in the WAAF.
AL: Turner.
HH: Because some people had then, you know, were known by nicknames, weren’t they?
AL: Yes, they were. I don’t think I was.
US: Well, Dad had a nickname, didn’t he?
AL: Ey?
US: Dad had a nickname, he was Lofty, wasn’t he?
AL: Yeah, dad was Lofty, because he was so tall.
HH: Because of his height, yeah, yeah.
AL: But I don’t think I had that. Oh, you got some of the pictures in there?
US: Remind you of something, these aren’t in order.
AL: Well, that’s me when I was young [laughs].
US: It’s true, just about the right time.
AL: That’s me when I was fifteen. And that’s me with Gladys. She was our lodger, she came from somewhere on the east coast and that’s Terry.
US: That was the wedding. Yeah.
HH: 1943.
AL: Oh yeah, there’s Terry and there’s me. And that’s his brother, who now unfortunately has died. That was Leslie as well and that’s my dad and that was my friend Norma. And that was next door’s little girl. There’s my dad and my mum and that was Auntie Madge and Uncle Tom, Auntie Eva, don’t know her name, that was me. That, I think that was Terry’s dad.
US: Looks like him.
AL: Yeah, I think that one was Terry’s dad, because that one is Terry’s brother, that’s Terry. Auntie somebody but she wasn’t a real auntie and there is Graham, my brother.
US: [unclear] So, what was, say a little bit about that.
AL: [laughs] we had a [unclear] and we were in the concert
HH: This is in Scampton.
US: I think so.
AL: I think it was, yeah. But I don’t remember the other two girl’s names. There’s [unclear] was, I did remember it the other day, but it’s gone again and it wasn’t spring is in the air but it was something like that, no. No, we put on a concert.
US: I remember you still had that jumper years later.
AL: I did [laughs]. Yeah, that’s when Leslie was born.
US: Scampton, was it?
AL: No, was Auntie Eva’s place.
US: Ok.
AL: Auntie Eva’s place that was.
US: And then there is a reference here to RAF Cardington.
HH: Gosh!
US: Were you there?
AL: No, I wasn’t there, Terry got posted there.
US: Maybe you were in London.
AL: No, I don’t think, that was 1945. So it was two years after we got married. He probably, he was probably posted.
US: Looked like you were in Scampton in ’47, with your dog.
AL: That’s N*****, not allowed to call them N***** now, are you? That was our N*****, he was lovely. And that’s Leslie, that’s Leslie with N***** when he was, we really got the dog for Leslie because I was shopping down in Lincoln and I went into the butcher’s and I was, you know, just getting something, was it the butcher’s? No, it wasn’t the butcher’s, it was another shop because Leslie was sat in the front seat and I had her, that’s right, and this fellow came out and he said something about a dog, he said, we found a dog in a field, that was it, it wasn’t very far away from Lincoln, his son was in the army and they bought him this puppy and his son was in the army, went to Germany and was killed and they couldn’t bear to look at the dog. So I said, I’ll take him home and so I did, so I had N***** for, how many years?
US: You must have had him from, well, I don’t know when you first got him but you probably had him to about 1950, ’51, ’52?
AL: He was quite young when I got him.
US: What happened to N***** when you were in Iraq?
AL: Mum looked after him.
US: So he was, he was still there when you got back?
AL: Yes.
US: Was he?
AL: And he went mad when he saw Terry. He suddenly realised it was Terry at the bottom of the garden.
US: And did you have him at Winterbourne Gunner as well?
AL: Yes, yeah, we did.
US: Ok. You must have had him at least ten years then.
AL: We did, he was, I think he was about ten or eleven when he died. It was a shame really, cause he was a gorgeous dog.
US: What else we got here.
AL: We got some more pictures. Do you know, I was looking at that and I was thinking, oh, I ought to know.
US: Ok.
AL: I don’t know him but I should know her.
US: Ok. [unclear] written on the back, what we got here, oh, we got Newark there.
HH: Oh yeah.
AL: Oh yeah. It’s me and Terry with Leslie, our first baby.
HH: Lovely.
AL: That’s me and that’s Terry. And that was our first one. And this is N***** as well with Leslie.
US: Scampton in ’46.
AL: Yes, Scampton 1946. It was an awful cold winter then, it really was. That’s a nice photograph of Terry.
US: Still 1948.
AL: Yeah. We were there quite a long time, weren’t we?
US: Mh.
AL: Oh, that’s when the [unclear] was in London.
US: 1951 then.
AL: We took the kids down.
US: Might go back, these are not in chronological order. Just family photographs.
AL: That’s N*****. He’s gorgeous.
HH: Lovely dog.
US: That must have been when we were at Winterbourne Gunner, old Sarum.
AL: Winterbourne Gunner.
US: Well, it must have been
AL: Ruins, Old Sarum, yes, it is.
US: Oh, tell them about the caravan.
HH: You’ve got a caravan story, have you?
AL: Well, the thing is, we went back to Winterbourne Gunner, when we were stationed there and there were no married quarters available so we bought this caravan [laughs]. And we lived in the caravan on the hill, about half way up from where the, what was the name of the unit where we were staying then?
US: Well, Boscombe Down.
AL: Boscombe Down. And she remembers more than I do.
HH: So what was it like living in a caravan?
AL: Oh, it’s quite ok.
US: See the size of it.
AL: We watched the big, when they were electing the mayor, not mayors, the
HH: General election?
AL: MH?
HH: General election?
AL: Yes. We went to a general election while we were there because we sat up at night with the television on and everything you know. And that’s when we went down to Cheddar Gorge. Weren’t you with us then?
US: No. Wasn’t born then.
AL: Mh?
US: Wasn’t born then.
AL: Oh, it must have been a later time. That’s Winterbourne, Janet, Janet and Susan they were [unclear] children not mine, who’s with Janet?
US: That’s your niece. Graham’s daughter.
AL: Who?
US: Graham’s daughter.
AL: Oh, is it?
US: yeah.
AL: Well, I’ve forgotten. That’s Cheddar Gorge. 1952, that’s the girls, Leslie and Valerie and that’s them again with the dogs.
HH: I want to take a picture [unclear].
AL: I think that’s it, is it?
US: That’s it for that album.
HH: I’m just going to take a nice picture. I’m going to say thank you again and turn this. So tell me about flying in a Lancaster.
AL: [unclear] after the war, wasn’t it?
US: No, it wasn’t. I don’t think so.
US2: Your mum’s [unclear] taxi right now. Rich is thinking about the time
US: The time when, do you remember the one about the pilot who had to do his retaining because he had a problem with landings?
AL: Oh, yes [laughs]
US: There you are, in your own words.
AL: That’s right, uhm, now, we were on night duty and what had happened? This particular pilot was having problems landing at the right place at the right time. And when the aircraft came back from the raid that night, the officer that was in charge of that group, he said, you need some more basic training, he says, so it’s ok of [unclear]
HH: Circuits and bumps.
AL: Circuits and bumps, I was trying to think of, was a case of circuits and bumps for him and of course I was on night duty then and, O for Orange he drove, he was in O for Orange because the funny thing was when he came down, my friend Vivian, she was running the flight path from her tractor, some sort of car tow, thing that was out on the aerodrome, and she was working on that, I was down, I was down the front, oh dear, a very difficult time for me, he came, that’s right, the night before there’d been a bomb raid on and when he came back, he made a bad landing and I remember that the rear gunner, he was so worried about it that as the plane hit the ground, he spun it round and jumped out. He did
US: Spun the turret round
AL: And, yeah, he spun it round, he jumped out [laughs]. Mind you that the aircraft was practically at the standstill by then so he didn’t come to any harm but he said I’m not going with that [unclear] any more [laughs].
US: So you were gonna say what the CO did to him? He made him do circuits and bumps and how did you end up being in the aeroplane?
AL: [unclear], yeah, I was just on duty that night, I can’t remember, I think I was driving a lorry. Trying to think what his name was but I can’t remember it. No, it’s gone, I can’t remember it.
US2: I think you and your girls were off at a ride, weren’t you?
AL: Mh?
US2: You and some of the other girls were off at a ride.
US: Yeah, how did you come to be off at the
AL: What?
US: How did you come to off at the chance to go up in the Lancaster when you were [unclear]?
AL: Well, that actually was a deliberate thing, the CO was very good, several of the girls asked could they go up on one of the Lancasters and on this particular occasion he said, yes, six of you can go. And six of us went, and we didn’t realise until after we took off that it was the bloke who was not doing his landings very well the night before [laughs], the first time he came down, we bounced nine times [laughs], and we were all in there and one of the girls was sick, I know, I was sat in the wireless operator’s seat and when we hit the ground the first time I left the seat [unclear], my head was practically on the ceiling [laughs], but you know we all had a good laugh out of it [laughs]. That is the sort of things that happened.
US: And do you remember anything else about the flight in the Lancaster?
AL: Which one?
US: How many times did you go round and land?
HH: Did you have to do lots of circuits and bumps with him?
AL: Yeah, I think we went round four or five times. But, you know, we were more or less prepared [coughs]. I know I stayed by the bomb aimer’s table [laughs] but I think two of the girls were sick [laughs] when we hit the ground but
HH: Dear, dear.
AL: It’s a long time ago.
HH: I’m gonna take another pickie. That’s a nice picture of you in your uniform.
AL: Oh yeah.
HH: I’ll send you these in an email. No.
AL: I mean, I’m gonna be ninety four next month.
HH: Which is wonderful, yeah.
US2: I’m not sure if I heard you say at the beginning about when you were having your driver training.
AL: Mh?
US2: I’m not sure whether I heard you say at the beginning when you were having your driver training, that you used to have, you were telling me the other day about the lectures that you were going to and you and your friends used to get [unclear] music [unclear]
AL: That was when Max
US2: Wall
AL: Max Wall, he was our sergeant in those days, and because we, half way through, I mean, he was really keeping us occupied cause he didn’t know what else to do with us, because some of our group were, who said they were willing to do desk work, they got send down to London so the group got a bit smaller, I’m trying to think what happened to the rest of us. I know the group did get smaller, we had to go, we had to go on this test to see where, it was a weird test, we had, there was a woman there and she had a, she had [unclear] in each hand and we had sheets of paper in front of us with a pen in one hand and a pencil in the other and every time she went sort of like that, we’d do a sort of a round and we had to listen for a horn so if the horn went, there was a little circle in the middle and you had to squiggle in there so and then well afterwards they would check all these pieces of paper to see how close to the truth you were, we were.
HH: So that sounds like today the equivalent of today’s theory test.
AL: Would it?
HH: I don’t know.
AL: I don’t know.
US2: [unclear] wasn’t it, called [unclear]?
AL: [unclear] was lovely, uhm, because that’s sort of round the curve and they were just round the, we were round the top a bit round the curve and at tea time [coughs] we saw the, [unclear] the fish, they’re not fish, the well-known, well, I suppose they are fish really.
HH: Dolphins.
AL: Yes, and it was beautiful sort of spring evening with low sunshine and they used to come around [coughs].
HH: Lovely.
AL: Some of the girls took photographs, I didn’t have a camera. And, a long time ago now.
HH: It is. Thank you Alma. [file missing] Ok, tell us the story of how you got bullets in your tractor.
AL: Well, what had actually happened was I had the tractor out in the daytime, doing the usual jobs, you know, [unclear] bombs about and that sort of stuff and that, was it that evening? I put the tractor away, when I got back down the next morning, I discovered that the armoury, what’s it, I’m trying to think of his rank, I can’t think of it anyway, eh?
US2: The rifle sergeant or something?
AL: No. No, he wasn’t as high up as that, [laughs], no, what happened, he, I don’t know why he had my tractor but he did, now, earlier on we had a raid over Germany, and I mean, at this time of night, I was either in the pub or gone to bed. So, it was quite late. And apparently what happened was that our blokes went over to Germany, did their bombing and everything but while they were there a German fighter plane tapped on the back end of them when they were coming home and it was when they got back to the airfield, the corporal who had borrowed my tractor for whatever reason I don’t know, cause I wasn’t even on duty then, but he borrowed my tractor and started off to get it back to the, you know, sort of empty headquarters but he didn’t have enough sense to turn the lights off, you see, so the German aircraft came down and started firing at him and he just got off the tractor [laughs], he just ran away but the tractor was there with the lights on, see so, the fellow who was bombing the tractor, there was only a tractor, see so he didn’t bomb and he finally disappeared. That was it. It was hardly worth mentioning really [laughs].
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Alma Leedham
Creator
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Heather Hughes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-14
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Sound
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ALeedhamA160514
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Description
An account of the resource
Alma Leedham grew up in London and worked for Hawker aircraft on the Hurricane at the start of the war . She later trained as a driver in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force. She served at RAF Scampton driving tractors taking bombs to the aircraft. Mentions various episodes of her service life: a flash accidentally blowing up a fully bombed Lancaster and setting fire to other nearby aircraft; delivering post from Scampton to Waddington; meeting her husband, a flight sergeant; her tractor being targeted by a German fighter plane. Describes the relationships between the WAAFs and the ground and aircrews at the base. Remembers the night the Dam Busters went on their operation. Tells of her family life after the war.
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
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1943
Format
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01:24:34 audio recording
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
57 Squadron
617 Squadron
animal
bomb dump
bomb trolley
bombing up
Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation (16–17 May 1943)
ground personnel
hangar
Lancaster
love and romance
Manchester
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Scampton
service vehicle
tractor
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/537/8810/Vera Willis.1.jpg
8d1fedc2c1660f17d81c02f7d9ea19c7
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/537/8810/AWillisV150828.1.mp3
9ca81b42329c5c948cbf05d5c5c84248
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Willis, Vera
V Willis
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Willis, V
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Vera Willis (2136822 Women's Auxiliary Air Force).
Date
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2015-08-15
2015-08-28
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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VW: When you get to my age and you’re stuck in one place all the time you get rather sort of ugh don’t you and I love doing things.
HH: Well, Vera, thank you very much for agreeing to talk today to the Bomber Command project.
VW: Not at all. Anything. Anything to do with the air force I’m absolutely willing to do.
HH: So let’s just — thank you. Well that’s just completely wonderful. It’s lovely to meet you and for the purposes of the recording I’m just going to say that it’s the 28th of August 2015 and we’re sitting in Vera Willis’ lounge in Holton Holegate near Spilsby in Lincolnshire.
VW: Yes.
HH: Great. Ok.
VW: That’s super.
HH: And Vera, thank you again for chatting to us today.
VW: Well I’m here.
HH: Because you have so many stories to tell.
VW: Once upon a time.
HH: About your experiences as a WAAF with Bomber Command.
VW: I’ve got so many funny ones.
HH: Before we start off telling about the war itself.
VW: Yes.
HH: Would you like just to tell us a little bit about your younger years?
VW: Yes.
HH: Where you were born and brought up.
VW: Oh yes.
HH: And how come it was that you joined the WAAFs.
VW: Yes.
HH: So, carry on and tell us that.
VW: Right. When do you want me to start? Now?
HH: Yeah.
VW: Well I’ll go, I’ll start from when I went to school. I was born in Alford and then we moved to Thorp St Peter, to the rectory. Father isn’t a parson. He wasn’t a parson or anything. It was just, you know, a normal house. And I have to start from when I left school I suppose, won’t I? So, I left school when I was, I think I was nearly sixteen because I didn’t, I wasn’t, I was a country girl. Father taught me to shoot and I had a horse and I had that sort of beginning.
HH: Wonderful.
VW: It was lovely. But I didn’t want a job as such because I can’t be enclosed. I had to be somewhere where I was being out. Now, funnily enough I went for six months to be a nurse. To Louth Hospital. And that was a dead loss. To me that was hopeless. I mean, it was all wrong, anyway. So, I decided that I’d love to, I loved aeroplanes and I’d like to be in the air force. Well, mother said, ‘Oh darling, you’ll be leaving home,’ blah blah blah and daddy said, ‘What will I do?’ So, I said, ‘Well, never mind. I’m definitely going to be, I’m going in to the air force.’ So I made up my mind. I wrote and I went to Lincoln and I joined up. I said, and the only reason I’ll be in the air force is I’ll drive and I don’t want any indoor sort of — I don’t want a job indoor or anything like that. I want, I want to drive and I love driving. So that’s what they did. I went to Lincoln and I stayed there for quite a long time. I loved every moment of it. The food was marvellous. I loved all the people and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. And then I moved from Lincoln to Dunholme and Fiskerton. That’s a bit. I did, when I was at Dunholme, we used to have to go over the river in a boat that went regularly. It was so that we could go to Lincoln by a train and the station was the other side of the river. And I got there and I never wore a great coat because I hate heavy clothes. And we got half way across and the people that got on were so many and they were all stood one side of the ferry and we went in. Straight in. And having clothes on, I mean I can swim, like, well but I couldn’t and I yelled, ‘Help,’ and I saw somebody dive in from the bridge at the top and I thought, ‘Whizzo, I’m alright.’ But we lost, lost two airmen and it wasn’t very funny. And anyway, they got me out and they got back to the [pause] to my thingy, put me in bed and gave me a bath and rang mum. And not being very far away mother comes hot foot. ‘Trust you,’ she said, ‘Trust you.’ Anyway, that was only one thing that happened. All sorts of strange things happened to me but the — I don’t know. There’s something about the air force that — I’m sure there was something in my last life that was a lot like it because I had a wonderful time and I worked ever so hard and I drove all night and I did all sorts of rescue things but I’ll tell you about those when I, yeah.
HH: So, you started off in Lincoln and then Dunholme.
VW: And then, oh yes, then I went to Dunholme. And Fiskerton comes into it somewhere which is not very far from Dunholme but I was in that area. And in —when I was in Dunholme they had a lovely village and a village shop and the man who had the baker’s shop, you know, the food shop, he had a horse in the field not far away and I said to him one day, I said, ‘Somebody said that was your horse,’ I said, ‘Do you ride it very often?’ And he said, ‘No. I can’t,’ he said, ‘The poor thing,’ he said, ‘He never gets out.’ I said, ‘Well I’ll ride him if you give me the tie. I’ll deal with it and I’ll ride him.’ And I got permission to and I went down to the field and did him up and off we went and that was quite nice. And I stayed at Dunholme for quite a long time. But let me get myself straight. Now where did I go from there? Fiskerton. Where does Fiskerton come in? But I finished off [pause] yes. I can go from there because they had to, they moved you around to sort of get you in a place where you were doing the best. You know. And I loved driving and I didn’t mind driving a long distance and I didn’t mind driving through the night or anything, you know. And then I moved from there to, I think my best bet actually is to East Kirkby.
HH: So then you were stationed at East Kirkby.
VW: Yeah. And from there everything happened.
HH: Tell us about it.
VW: Yes. We [pause] how must — I’ve been going through it so much that I’m getting myself — I’ve got to get it right because it’s a hell of a long time ago.
HH: It is. And it’s fantastic that you remember so much.
VW: Oh, I’ve remembered lots more. From East Kirkby I did an awful lot. We had one or two rather nasty — excuse me, German thingies. They went all down one of the runways and that caused rather a lot of, you know, bother. But what did I do from there?
HH: So is it, is it at East Kirkby that the Germans actually bombed the runway?
VW: Yes. I think so because I remember. I knew the skipper who was — I think he’d just come from somewhere. They’d all come in and I think the Germans followed them in or something because they got out of the way. I don’t think they were any real, sort of — nobody was terribly hurt. I think it was just one of those sort of quick whizzes. But East Kirkby was really very busy and [pause] but I wanted to start from the beginning. You’ll have to come again.
HH: I can. With pleasure.
VW: Let me give you something that’s really sort of [pause] oh yes. Here at Spilsby.
Other 2: Alright. Just keep going.
VW: At Spilsby everything was going beautifully and I was whizzing along. I’d got something in the back of the, of the garry for the sergeant because they have, they are in the caravan at the end of the runway and don’t — and I’d got his tea or his dinner or something or whatever I had. It was for him. And I was tootling along nicely and all of a sudden there was a [whoo] and a sort of wind whizzed through my open windows and skitted by my ear and I got out. A bit like this, out of the van — but I waited. I thought well if anything’s happened and any of the men are hurt I’ll wait here and pick them up and take them back, you see. So anyway, Duncan Lawson, Squadron Leader Lawson who we knew very well — he used to go shooting with daddy. He came around. He said, ‘Vera, what are you doing here?’ So, I said, ‘I’m going to the — taking the food to the sergeant in the — ’ He said, ‘Go back to the — you shouldn’t be here.’ So, I said, ‘Well, what are you doing here then?’ I said, ‘I got here first.’ And he said, ‘Do as I say.’ I said, ‘I will. I’ll see you later.’ ‘Cause I knew him ever so well and he was very bossy on thingy and he went and picked them up and he got all the — you know.
HH: The credit.
VW: Oh yes.
HH: So, had there been an explosion?
VW: Oh yeah. They had one of the [pause] they were doing one of the thingies up, you know, and getting them ready.
HH: Yes.
VW: And turned the thing around the wrong way and the bloody thing went up in the air. it was terrific. I mean, I wondered what had hit us. I sort of sat there and I was quite ready and I thought, ‘Oh the poor boys,’ and I was all ready to pick them up but no. I didn’t get a chance so I went straight to the hospital and I was there and I said, ‘I’ve come to help you because I know there will be one of the boys, or some of the boys will be badly hurt,’ because, you know, they were quite close. And, so I stayed there and I said, anything I can do? I’ll be with you in the operating theatre. Anything you like. And I stayed there and helped them and quite a few people came in. Some of the girls came, sat in the van, the garage and just sat there. I said, ‘What the hell are you doing sitting there. Come in and help.’ ‘Oh no. We’re not going in there.’ Honestly. We did come across some funnies. Honestly. And I had, I don’t know what father thought because we only lived a little way away and our rectory at Little Steeping was just like from here to the bottom of the drive and poor daddy, ‘I hope Vera’s alright.’ But they might have known I was alright. I mean I always managed to scrape out of all sorts of funny —
HH: Yeah.
VW: Position.
HH: Yeah. And was it, Vera, when you were at East Kirkby that you got to drive some quite remarkable people around?
VW: Oh yes. And I did and I would have loved to done more about it but I had to pick up this bloke and I picked him up and I can remember going through East Kirkby and I said, ‘Who are you?’ You know, ‘Would you tell me who you are?’ And he said, ‘Yes, I’m Mussolini’s son.’ Now, I’ve got really worried about that. How could he possibly be but he looked sort of, he did, he just —
HH: Extraordinary.
VW: But I can’t even remember where I dropped him off but I picked him up on the airfield so he must have been somebody that somebody knew something about. And he was only — he wasn’t very old. But how could he have been Mussolini’s son?
HH: What a puzzle. And was it also at East Kirkby when you took a rather important person to Gibraltar Point?
VW: Oh yes. Yes.
HH: Tell us about it.
VW: Yes. We took him up to — it was for the bomb. You know the [pause] to see how, when they dropped the thingy if that —
HH: It was the bouncing bomb wasn’t it?
VW: Yes.
HH: Yes.
VW: And they went up there to sort of do some try outs and thingies.
HH: And how did you discover who it was that you were driving?
VW: Oh, because they, they told me. Yeah.
HH: And it was Barnes Wallis.
VW: Yes. And I’m sure it was Barnes Wallis but [pause] because there was everybody there doing the thing. All of the talk of the — everybody was —
HH: So, you also would have then witnessed those tests wouldn’t you?
VW: Yes. I did all sorts of things. I just kept my mouth shut. I mean they knew whatever they wanted me to do I’d do which I did and I didn’t ask questions.
HH: And you had a bit more to do with the squadron which was finally involved with the Dambusters raid because you knew Guy Gibson.
VW: Yes.
HH: So, tell us about that.
VW: Well, how did I know Guy Gibson? It just happened. And I drove them. I took them into Lincoln. And — I don’t know. I just, I was always around. I was there when I was needed because I just loved doing things that, you know. And I, and I loved that dog.
HH: So, you knew the dog as well.
VW: Ahum. Yeah. And somebody let him out and he was killed on the road and everybody cried. Poor old boy.
HH: Yeah.
VW: Silly me.
HH: Well it was a big thing wasn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
VW: I’ve got loads of things to tell you. I really have. And I can’t. Where am I now? I’m at East Kirkby now aren’t I?
HH: Yes. Yes.
VW: Sorry. Forgive me.
Other: Oh you silly sausage.
HH: Well these memories are very strong.
Other: They [pause] you still remember them going off, don’t you? In the evenings.
VW: Oh, I met —
Other: And other things. And you always used to say some of them — they knew that they weren’t coming back didn’t they?
VW: Oh yes. I used to drive them to the kites at night. You know. To go on. That really —
Other: To their sorties.
VW: I didn’t enjoy that.
Other: No.
VW: And they would give me letters and things to post and tell me about their wives and their children. And you’d wait. One night, somebody I liked very much and we had, we had a place where we could iron our trousers and I ironed mine every night. I liked to be smart and there were lace curtains in this room and the window was open and I was thinking about him and I thought, ‘Oh gosh I do hope he’s ok and he’ll come back,’ and all of a sudden, the curtains went [whoo]. Like that. And I knew he wouldn’t come back. And the sort of [pause] things were felt very deeply in those days. You didn’t sort of brush things off and I didn’t have anyone that I was really sort of, I wasn’t silly enough to fall in love with anyone that was flying because that was sheer and utter misery but I knew this person because I knew he was married and he was very fond of his wife and his children. You were involved in so much, how can I say — ?
HH: Heartache.
VW: You took on a lot of people’s worries. Especially when you were driving because they would talk to you and tell you all sorts of things that really meant an awful lot. They knew that you would never sort of, you know. They talked to you and it would never come back. But it was a very emotional time because you took on an awful lot of private stories and worries. Anyway, let me tell you about the fun things. Now, let me think.
Other: You used to have parties down — because mum lived with her mum and dad at Little Steeping rectory.
VW: Oh. Yes. I used to come. Well we had tennis courts you see and father put a notice in the officer’s mess and said that if any of them wanted to come down and play tennis. And some of the boys used to come down because we had a lovely pub and they used to come down to the pub and they used to pop in and mum would make them a cup of tea and it was, it was a very happy place and they could come from [pause] from —
Other: Spilsby.
VW: No. Down the river to come from [pause] oh crikey the next village to us. And come down the river to us at Little Steeping.
Other: Yeah. Great Steeping.
VW: Yeah.
Other: Yeah.
HH: Is that rectory still there?
Other: Yeah.
HH: Is the house still there?
Other: Yes.
VW: Oh Yes. Yes. Oh we had some lovely times. And mummy used to play the violin in the garden and the cows and the sheep used to come and there was a big hedge and you’d see a row of cow’s heads and mummy was there sort of playing the violin. Honestly. And they never took a photograph and we should have done because it was hilarious. And the boys used to say, ‘Elizabeth,’ mum, ‘Come and play the violin. See if the cows will come up,’ and they did. Stupid, silly things.
Other: But mum used to bike didn’t you? From home to the —
VW: I cycled because mummy was very ill and I was stationed at East Kirkby and I cycled form East Kirkby to Little Steeping every morning and every night until one day the little man who collected the letters and things — he had a, oh what do you call it? A three-wheeler. Oh.
HH: Sort of tricycle.
Other: Motorbike.
VW: Yes. A motorbike.
HH: Oh motorbike.
VW: Yes and he’d stop and he’s say, ‘Come on Vera. We’ll get your bike on here somehow,’ he said, ‘I’ll take you. I can’t see you going up that hill again.’
Other: Motorbike and sidecar.
VW: That’s right.
Other: Yeah.
VW: Yes. Yeah. And so we tootled and he was ever so good and mum used to have something already hot and ready for him. Coming to do it for me. But I did it for a week. It nearly killed me ‘cause I had to come up the hill.
Other: And then you —
VW: And I took the short cut.
Other: Yeah. And then you were transferred to Spilsby weren’t you?
VW: Then I came to — I had a whale of a time at Spilsby because I lived at home.
Other: So —
HH: Fantastic.
Other: Have you said anything about the bomb dump going up in Spilsby?
VW: Yes. Yes.
HH: That was Spilsby. Yeah.
VW: Gosh. It was a bit of a shock though. It was a hell of a bang.
Other: They lost eleven ground crew didn’t they?
VW: Yes. They did.
Other: Yeah.
VW: No. There were only three killed. There was three killed.
Other: I thought they lost eleven.
VW: No. No. I don’t think so.
HH: Yes. It’s a terrible thing though isn’t it?
VW: Well it was something that was ready and waiting to happen ‘cause all they did was to turn the fuse the wrong way on and it just sort of —
HH: Yeah.
VW: One bloke went into little pieces.
HH: Exploded. Yeah.
VW: Not funny. But anyway, we got through all sorts of things at Steeping. At East Kirkby. All sorts of odd things happened. You know. But —
HH: So, you, can I just go back and ask. You were, it sounds like you spent quite a lot of your time in the WAAFs at East Kirkby and then Spilsby. Is that right?
VW: Yes. East Kirkby was first because I was quite a long time at Lincoln and I —
HH: Before that. Ok.
VW: And I was posted. I can’t remember. I’ve been trying to remember if I was posted to Dunholme and Fiskerton. The only thing that I remembered was that I was nearly drowned in the [laughs]
HH: Trent.
Other: Yeah. Going over Dunham Bridge.
VW: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: What? So, what was the incident you had to get under the truck. You were having, cooking sausages.
VW: Oh yes. Well this was, this was when I was, now let me think now because there was one or two times when I —
Other: Well it was down the bottom of the —
VW: It was at the bottom of the runway. There was a caravan at the bottom of the runway and I was tootling along. Oh, this was, yes, I had to go back again because Duncan made me go back from what I was doing and I went down there and then I went back and picked up some food for the sergeant on the runway. And he came out and it just happened he turned around and he was standing in the, in the doorway with a frying pan in his hand. He’d been cooking some sausages [laughs] and then, oh this was when the aircraft was bombing the runway.
Other: Yeah.
VW: That’s right. Oh, that’s a different time. That’s right. Yes. We both finished off underneath the caravan.
Other: He was still holding his frying pan with those sausages wasn’t he?
VW: Yeah.
Other: But yeah. Mum just pulled up and he was at the door and —
VW: Yeah.
Other: The aircraft came over and machine gun fire and mum and him were underneath the caravan.
VW: We were. Yes. We were. Those sorts of things went by and you didn’t worry. It was part of the way of living. You know. There were lots and lots of silly, silly things. What else was there?
Other: Well they used to ring you up and you used to end up going on long drives didn’t you? With the —
VW: Yes. I used to have to go down south. I used to have to go. Probably, oh I’d start out at midnight to take somebody down south. I can’t remember the places but a heck of a long way away it was. In the dark and you got to know the places so well that you didn’t really worry. I mean it didn’t bother me. Night driving.
HH: And how did you find your way Vera because a lot of places.
VW: Oh we did.
HH: The places of villages and things were all removed weren’t they?
HH: Yeah. But there were a lot of signs. They were very good. And you had — they did their best to give you a sort of, a help. If we had the marvellous things we have today to get us to places we would have been fine wouldn’t we? But we had to sort of just hope we were on the right road. We managed it. And the people we took were very good because they knew we were tired when we got to where we were going and they found — because there were also places for the WAAF’s and the army. For the women to go if they were, you know, what do they call them?
Other: When you were on to stay.
Yes. And —
Other: Billets.
VW: And we were always sort of given the help. They gave you what they could. They helped you to get to where you were going but you managed it. It’s surprising what you did manage actually but you had to come back alone which wasn’t very funny because there’d be all sorts of upheavals and things and planes coming over but you took everything as a matter of course. I mean if anything funny happened you just crossed your fingers and hoped for the best and said, ‘Please God get me home.’ And that was it. But you didn’t think about it because the boys were killing themselves, weren’t they? Doing the best they could. So we had to do the best we could, didn’t we?
HH: Indeed.
VW: And I’d go back and do it tomorrow. I would.
Other: But you used to drive the tractors with the bombs on, didn’t you? And go and —
VW: Oh. Yes. Yes. Well they used to get the aircraft from the, from the —
Other: Hangars.
VW: Out of the —where they keep them.
Other: Hangars.
VW: Yeah. Now, this [pause] I was, I was driving the tractor and I was pulling this aircraft. There was an awful lot of whatsit between us. And Violet was yelling at me from the top, saying, ‘Don’t go that way Tommy. Go the other way.’ ‘Not that way.’ ‘Go to the left not to the right.’ And there was a taut thing and if it had, I mean if it had gone it would have whipped my neck off. We did all sorts of amazing things. I mean we bombed up. Put, this we nearly finished up nearly in a dyke. I stopped and the aircraft kept coming but managed to stop in time but that was rather sort of hmmn. But yes, where was I? Now then.
Other: You were going to say about when you bombed up.
VW: Oh yes.
Other: The bombs.
VW: Yes. Cookies. You would take a whole load of cookies and incendiaries and things. I mean if you’d gone over a bump and one had fallen off it, well it would have been curtains wouldn’t it? But we used to take those around as if they were bits of nothing. It was amazing. Honestly. And when I look back and what we did do. But a lot of the girls didn’t like driving and I was pleased because I got all of the nice tricky jobs I did.
Other: You enjoyed driving.
VW: Yeah. I did. And the more difficult they were the better I liked them.
Other: Just a little ditty if I could.
VW: Yeah. And honestly I’d still love to go back. If I could take, get some of my life back — if I could get another fifty years back and there was a war on I’d go tomorrow.
Other: When I took mum to the Spilsby aircraft —
VW: Oh, it was marvellous.
Other: Commemoration of the new memorial a couple of years ago mum was asked to put a wreath on and I was sitting in the stands and I was sat next to an elderly gentleman and he said to me, he said, ‘I know that lady,’ he said, ‘That’s Tommy Tomlinson.’ And I looked at him and I said, ‘It is Tommy Tomlinson.’ ‘My God,’ he said, ‘I would know her anywhere. She hasn’t changed a bit.’ Bearing in mind it’s seventy years.
VW: Oh no.
Other: And it turned out that he was the little lad that used to live at the local shop a little way up from where mum lived.
HH: Gosh.
Other: And he told me he could still remember her cycling every morning to go to the camp in her uniform. And, yeah, Tommy Tomlinson. And they all remember her as Tommy.
VW: And then the lovely man in the wheelchair. We had a little —
Other: Yeah. We went to —
VW: That was lovely wasn’t it?
Other: We went to the three Lancs get together at East Kirkby.
VW: Yeah.
Other: And mum was invited as a VIP because of her veteran status.
VW: Yeah.
Other: And we were walking along and a lady had heard me saying that mum was in 207 Squadron and a gentleman in a wheelchair that she was pushing, he said, ‘Oh. Oh,’ he said, ‘My God,’ he said, ‘It’s Tommy. It’s Tommy.’
VW: I had a big hug.
Other: They hugged in wheelchairs a
VW: Yeah.
Other: And they reminisced and he, he’s ninety six and he hasn’t seen her since she was stationed here.
HH: Amazing.
Other: And he still recognised her. And I think that’s pretty marvellous.
HH: It is indeed.
VW: Oh I’d love.
Other: What other things can you remember? What —
VW: Oh, I can remember so many things. I lay in bed at night and go back.
Other: You met, you met dad on Spilsby didn’t you?
VW: Yes. Yeah.
HH: Tell us about that.
Other: Tell us how you met dad.
VW: I wasn’t particularly enamoured with him at first because he was a bit sort of — you know — I didn’t.
Other: The first time you saw him he came to get some petrol one night, didn’t he?
VW: Oh, this was — no. This was at another aerodrome. Ages ago. Where was I? I must have been at Dunholme and he was in his private car and he wanted some petrol and it was midnight and I remember, I remember doing my hair that day differently and I was ever so pleased with myself and it was, it was midnight almost. I was on night duty but I had to look smart, you know, and he came in to the, he came in to the office and he said could he have some petrol. So I had to ask the sergeant if it was ok if he had some petrol. And he said, ‘Take him Tommy and see that he does,’ you know. Gets what he wants.
Other: Yeah.
VW: And, oh, we just said, ‘Hello,’ and ‘How are you?’ and how’s your father and we said goodbye, good night and I didn’t see him any more for ages. And then I saw him again one day and he said, ‘I know you don’t I?’ I said, ‘I don’t know. Do you? ‘Cause I wasn’t particularly bothered about men. I was enjoying myself doing things, you know. And I didn’t like to get interest in any of the flying types because it was asking for trouble that was. But I had some nice boyfriends.
Other: So, what, what happened then? When he, when he met you again?
VW: Oh, when he met me again, yes. I think we sat in the big, sat in the garry with me and we talked. But the time I really met him properly was at the Revesby Show. And I’d been up to London and I’d been to this place and ordered a load of super stuff. Shooting stuff and from one of these big shops.
Other: Shows.
VW: For the show. And poor daddy had to deal with it. Anyway, and some friends came up and they were with Bill. And he said, ‘Hello Vera.’ I said, ‘Hello dear.’ He said, ‘Would you like to walk around the reservoir.’ And I said, ‘Not particularly but I will if you want to.’ So we walked around the reservoir and talked.
Other: ‘Cause was that the time that he said that he was going to marry you?
VW: Probably. One or two of them said that and I wasn’t interested thank you.
Other: So, what —
VW: And then, then, oh he came to Steeping. We got together and we found we liked one another and, you know.
Other: It was just funny that you happened to be stationed at the same aerodrome.
VW: Yeah. Yeah.
HH: So were you married during the war? Or —
VW: No.
HH: Or after the war.
VW: After the war. No. That’s asking for trouble. No. No, I filled in my time doing really interesting things. I got nearly killed two or three times but I mean that was ok. They didn’t manage it quite. But —
HH: And so, Vera tell us how you got to fly over Germany.
VW: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. One day I walked into the MT office and the officer said, ‘Tommy I’ve got some news for you.’ So I said, ‘What’s that?’ And he said, ‘Would you like to fly over Germany?’ I said, ‘Yes please. When?’ So, he said, ‘Well the CO has had notice to say that any of the drivers who have been really super,’ because we worked really hard, and would they like a trip over Germany? It was over [pause] not right in to Germany. What was name of the place? Anyway, and I said, ‘Yes please. I’d love to.’ So they rang up and said would I go down two or three days later and get my [pause] –
Other: Flying gear.
HH: Flying gear.
VW: Yeah.
HH: Parachute.
VW: Parachute. Yeah.
Other: Parachute.
VW: So, I sat outside the thingy waiting and they brought it for me and I went off the same day and nobody else wanted to go. ‘No. No. No. We don’t want to go flying thank you very much. No.’ Lily livered lot. Oh no. Nobody else wanted to go and I thought what a marvellous thing to do. But I’d done lots of trips. I flew quite a lot because I used to take them in the garry and they’d say, ‘Come on Tommy. We’re only going across to do a survey for about two hours just to test everything for the night.’ And a lot of the girls used to go. Nobody knew of course. We used to hide. Hide in the garry. Wherever we could. And one day we went and we were doing a lovely, a super, it was a really lovely ride and the weather was marvellous and I was in the front turret and it was really nice. And suddenly the skipper said, ‘Bloody hell,’ he said the — whatsits won’t come down.
Other: Flaps.
VW: ‘The flaps won’t come down,’ and we couldn’t —
Other: Land.
HH: Land. Yeah.
VW: So we were circling away and everything. And I thought oh bully for us. How do I get get down? I haven’t got a parachute. Yeah. I didn’t bother. I mean I wasn’t really that bothered. It got a bit, sort of — anyway, eventually they did and there’s a photograph somewhere of me coming down out of the aircraft and sitting on the grass like that. I was so pleased to be on terra firma that I didn’t realise that we got down alright. And that’s the only time. But I used to, I did quite a lot of flying that way but we always managed to come down alright. And what else? What else? There’s something else on the back of my mind.
HH: You mentioned earlier that you had met Ian Smith.
VW: Yes. Mr Smith.
HH: Was that through driving as well? Was that through your work as driving.
VW: Yes. I was driving it. Yeah. Yes. He was in my garry. Yes. I picked him up. I can remember where I picked him up with somebody else. Yes. Oh yes. That is definite. Because I didn’t know who he was until later on. He was ever so nice. But you got all sorts of jobs that you don’t remember because they happened quickly and you had to sort of get cracking and do they wanted to do and it didn’t really register until later. But oh, I’d go back tomorrow. I would. Honestly. I really would. I won’t be able to now will I?
Other: So what —
HH: Well you can do it in your —
VW: In the next life I can.
HH: You can do it in your thoughts.
VW: Oh, I do. All sorts of things.
Other: What [pause] what other special things happened at — when they had special sorties that they had to d? There was a lot of the Lancs, a lot of the squadrons went out on the big shouts didn’t they?
VW: Oh yes. You’d get, you’d get quite a lot of them but they didn’t do it too often because you lost too many kites doing it that way. If you, if you sort of sent out, they used to have big raids but they found that it wasn’t really very clever because the —
Other: Losses were too high.
VW: The Germans would send out their — yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They had some really ropey dos. The really did.
Other: Did you often get the Germans come here to bomb?
VW: Oh yes. Oh, they used to have a lovely time. They never did any good though.
Other: And at Spilsby and East Kirkby.
VW: Yeah. I remember East Kirkby because I had a great friend. He was absolutely super. Now, he came from South Africa and he’d lived there for a long time. He was white. He wasn’t a South African and he had a terrific sense of humour and I remember he was on duty that night when they came over and he said, ‘I’ll pay them back.’ I forget what he did but he bombed somewhere. They bombed somewhere and gave it a hell of a do, you know, with that feeling behind it. Oh, he came to Steeping to see me. I think he brought his son and I remember seeing him walking up the drive. Now that’s — I haven’t thought about that for ages. And I can’t even remember his name but he was ever so jolly and ever such a nice person but he came to England to see some relatives or something and he came to see us.
Other: How lovely.
VW: Yeah. Bill was ever so pleased to see him. Yeah. Yeah.
HH: So, after the war when you returned to civilian life did you continue living in Steeping then?
VW: What did I — I didn’t really do a lot. I was at home.
HH: But was it in Steeping?
Other: Yeah. You still lived with your mum and dad at Steeping. At the rectory. Didn’t you?
VW: Oh yes.
Other: After you’d left the air force.
VW: Oh mum and I did all sorts of things. I played tennis a lot.
Other: But you also went to London to do some modelling didn’t you?
VW: Oh yes. Yes, I did.
Other: With your sister. After the war.
VW: Yes. I did. I did. Yes.
Other: And then you trained as a hairdresser didn’t you?
VW: Yes. Oh. Yes. I did. I did. And mummy had three hairdressing salons and I just had a natural sort of something for it and I used to go down occasionally and do a bit here and there and then I bought a business. I had a big double fronted shop. And —
Other: It’s on Roman Bank in Skegness.
VW: And a successful business it was too.
HH: In Skegness.
Other: Yeah. Yeah. Called du Barry wasn’t it?
VW: Du Barry. Yeah. Double fronted. And I had a peacock in the window. And a lady came in one day in the summer and she said, ‘That’s my Henry.’
Other: This woman remembered her peacock.
VW: And she remembered her peacock. There was something about him that she remembered. So I said, ‘Well I’m taking care of it.’ I think it finished up at the 30 Club. They bought it when I sold the business. But I did, I did very very well. I don’t know if it’s —
Other: But you always remember your war years don’t you? You, always, with great, great happiness and great sadness. Mixed feelings really.
VW: Yeah. I’m really, really — I was thrilled to bits when I knew you were coming.
HH: Well it’s such a, it’s just so lovely to be able to sit here and hear all these memories.
VW: Anything I can do now, if there is anything I can do.
HH: Well I’ve —
VW: Wherever you want me I’ll go.
HH: Well Vera what I would suggest to you is that we can, we can pause the interview now because one of the things that tends to happen actually is that when people start remembering they don’t, they can’t stop.
Other: No.
HH: So —
VW: They can’t stop what?
Other: Remembering.
HH: Remembering.
VW: Oh no. No.
HH: And so, I think that one of the things that might happen is that you will start remembering a lot more than you ever thought you could. Having had this conversation.
VW: Yes. I probably will. Only I’ve been worried.
HH: And we can come back and do another one.
VW: I’ve been really worried because I’ve known — I don’t know —
HH: Well what —
VW: I remember bits and I remember ever so much more than I’ve told you today because it just hasn’t come back.
HH: It will though and so we can come back and talk some more.
VW: Yes.
HH: So, shall I say thank you very much for the moment.
VW: Yeah.
HH: And we’ll switch the tape off.
VW: Yeah.
HH: But we’ll carry on where we’ve left off.
VW: Yes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Vera Willis
Description
An account of the resource
Vera Willis nee Tomlinson volunteered for the Women's Auxiliary Air Force because she wanted to be a driver. Her driving career in the RAF involved driving long distances as well as driving aircrew to dispersal. Some crew gave her letters for safekeeping or to post.
Creator
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Heather Hughes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-08-28
Contributor
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Julie Williams
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:44:14 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AWillisV150828
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending review
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Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
207 Squadron
animal
bomb dump
bombing up
Gibson, Guy Penrose (1918-1944)
ground personnel
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Spilsby
service vehicle
tractor
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/855/10860/PHanksJ1602.1.jpg
ca4d3cdabbea75088e11175107102fce
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/855/10860/AHanksJ160622.2.mp3
dca6ce82ecad9a869f7eadfd2dd1907c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Hanks, John
J Hanks
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with John Hanks (b.1922, 1453357 Royal Air Force). He served as an armourer and was posted to the Shetlands.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Hanks, J
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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IB: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Digital Archive. The interviewer is Ian Boole and the interviewee is Mr John Hanks. Thank you for telling your story today John. Also present is Rita May, Mr Hanks’ daughter. And the interview is taking place at Mr. Hanks’s home in Potterhanworth in Lincoln on the 22nd of June 2016, at approximately 2.20 pm. Over to you, John.
JH: Yeah. Well, I can also answer any questions you like to ask me. Be the best way. Or do you want me to go through the whole?
IB: If you’d like to start with you preservice and your early days.
JH: Yeah, what before this.
IB: before the war.
JH: Well just, yeah, my father, biological father is not here now, he served in the First World War in India. I was born in 1922, poor family obviously and grew up in Battersea, London, left school at fourteen, ordinary elementary school, went to work, 1936 I started work, I was fourteen then and time presses on, 1937 comes round, ‘38 and the signs of war, Mr, what’s his name, went across with a piece of paper?
IB: Chamberlain.
JH: Chamberlain, Mr Chamberlain comes up with a bit of paper, peace in our time, [unclear] when you think about it, we weren’t ready, so 1938 passes, breathe a sigh of relief, thank God for that, no war but 1939, what happens? It happens, Hitler walks into Czechoslovakia we start war, so [unclear] onwards I’m still living in Battersea, London, my mates join the LDV, which became the Home Guard, we guarded bridges, Battersea bridges, things like that and then we had the Blitz start, but I lived through the whole of the Blitz, from beginning to the very end, night after night after night, it’s unbelievable, youngsters said, I can’t imagine what it would be like to live and try to sleep under noise of aircraft, guns and bombs coming down, unbelievable, I can hardly believe it myself today now but we survived. 1941 I decide I’ve got to go up, I’m gonna be called up anyway and I want to go into the Royal Air Force, I like mechanical, I liked things like that so I joined the Royal Air Force, go down to Croydon, there are offices there to join up, asked a few questions, no, I‘m not very good at maths, and when the officer asked me how often, add a half and a third together, I just [unclear] together [unclear] so he said to me, well, he said, I’ll put you down for ACAGD but I didn’t know what it was, aircraft and general duty so that’s it and waited to get called up, sent to [unclear], sent down to Penrhos in South Wales, got down there, kitted out, you know, [unclear] then sent over to Weston-super-Mare and that’s where we started the basic training, marching up and down, sleuthing to the front and the right and all this, anyway, put on guard at the, you know, new pier down there, given a rifle, no ammunition, no, might have hurt somebody [laughs] but we got a rifle anyway and we put down there we were told, you know [unclear] anybody, it goes there and that you know, anyway and from there passed out the end of the training, sent up to Edinburgh, which was [unclear] at the time, I forget what squadron was there, I think it was, I’m not sure, a fighter squadrons up there because the Germans were coming in sometimes up the, you know, the, I forget the river now, what’s the river, where Edinburgh runs, I forget the river now, anyway, they would come up there and attack, you know, go back and I’m put on, looking after the air crew, cause some of the air crew, French pilots learning to take off and landing on aircraft carriers, you know, and on air the best [unclear] in case is a crash and the pilots burning so it [unclear] and it worries me and I’ll tell this I was and I don’t think I gotta tell you and [unclear] and so he says, oh, so [unclear] to get me posted so I get posted up to Shetland islands where I am up at Sullom Voe on PBY Catalinas which is American aircraft and that’s where we, you know, doing their work from there, and I get interested in armoury so I’m put in the armoury section, helping armourers doing fiddly jobs and interesting, so I decide I’ll remuster, see if I can remuster to armourer I [unclear] for, you know, remustering, I’m accepted and I sit down to create a new letter for on an armourer’s course and there I was down there knowing all about every armour under the sun, weapons, all kind of weapons, hydraulics, turrets, the lot, I passed out as AC1 so I’ve covered AC2 now to AC1, that’s not bad, and I was posted to Swinderby in Lincoln here with 1660, HBCU which is heavy Bomber Command unit, so I’m posted there, what we’re doing there, we are training crews in [unclear] to work in Lancasters or Halifaxes so if we got Halifaxes there and we got, so when I get there we got Halifaxes, we only got the Lancasters so on there armourer I’m shown me jobs, another armourer tells me what I have to do each day so I learn that, so every day I will have to go out in the morning to make aircraft dedicated to me and I will have to check every armour, that’s the ammunition, the 303 Brownings, the turret system, the hydraulics, the power technics, everything, any can [unclear], the carrier, the bomb carriers, the lot, so I have to do that every day and then I’d have to sign form seven hundred, I will sign a form seven hundred in my trade, all the other trades are, you know, you will be a mechanic, you would have to sign, electrician they also signed it, the last one to sign would be the captain the aircraft, he is satisfied, he signed it, now that aircraft is fit to fly, that’s the last what I would do and that would be, and that would have left us there to the next job, next aircraft or in between flights inspection just to check everything is going ok and that’s what I would have to do as an armourer and then of course, I think, after being there for a while, they sent me down to Waddington here and I got a feeling, they at the beginning of the war, they were trying to, they were using armourers as air gunners because you had no better gunner than an armourer who knew all about, if a [unclear] dropped a gun, you knew how to clear it, an ordinary gunner who wasn’t an armourer might be, what I do now? So I think it was trying to do the same with me, when we went to Waddington, they would put us on a, into a sort of an imitation turret where you would fire at imitation aircraft flying but that’s all that and there and it came up when I was sent to East Kirkby, where I was attached to 57 and 630 Squadron and there we were bombing up, you know, proper because Swinderby, the only bombing I have done at Swinderby was putting practice bombs up, dynamite bombing would be a bomb which would just be smoked when it came up, if you were bombing at night, it would be a flash bomb, a flash grenade and eight pounders it was all putting up but when we went to, when I went to East Kirkby, we was bombing up for real, we was bombing up on the cookies, that’s the four thousand pounder, o might be an eight thousand pounder and I haven’t put up a twelve thousand pounder, I think I put up an eight thousand pounder but I most certainly put up plenty of four thousand pounders, they called them cookie, and of course you put a cookie up and you put rows of five hundred or two fifty pound bombs except at one day we was putting up a cookie and canisters of incendiaries [unclear] and the incendiaries is a big can, inside the can is about, I think about fourteen incendiaries, they all fit in place, they are octagonal put together but each one keeps the [unclear] out, you in and then there’s a cross by that comes across now when they drop them, the bomb aimer selects the drop bars, the drop bars fall away and all the incendiaries come out, when they go out, they’re alive and I’m up in front position and I, we put these canisters up and I’m up at the very top so I’ve got to come all down to the bomb armourer below, ok, is on? Wind it up, very slowly up cause the can of incendiaries to top position, now it’s clear so I released but the thing was the cable wasn’t in and all canisters went straight away down, right across the bomb trolley and bent it all up but not one drop bar fell out so luckily saved the situation [laughs] but I sweat a bit [laughs] but that’s about the only incident I can ever remember that happened to me. It’s, we use to have a bit of a fun when we used to have to, when we bombed up it seemed to be, the bombs would come up, fill up with petrol or whatever, the bomb, we would come out, bomber, I guarantee you every time we finished, change loads, change loads and he comes down, petrol [unclear] comes up, for several reasons I can understand is the enemy couldn’t work out the distance when we were going or the amount of fuel it was carrying, if the, you know, found out, he was put in so many gallons of fuel in, it would give some idea of where that plane, they would gonna go. And I think that was the idea, why they changed loads the last minute to, you know, and that’s what we but coming back to Swinderby we were there, they were training, training crew, they were trained in take-off and landing so circuits and bumps we called them, diversions, now the diversions as far as I know, HBCU, 166 HBCU would form up with other HBCU [unclear], 54 and they would form up in a big [unclear] of aircraft and they would take-off and away, the point was the enemy would get the guess, they’re gonna make a raid over there but they won’t, they might as well go over there, so we were diverted, it was diversion so once again, the enemy was getting [unclear] and that’s part of the job of 1660, so that’s about all as much I can tell you of 1660 anyway [laughs] but is there anything else, you know, can I tell you?
IB: How was your relationship with the aircrew, you come in contact with them [unclear]?
JH: Yeah, very, well, sometimes I’d have to go out there and I want, I can’t check the turrets cause hydraulic system, I can’t check the turrets without the engines running, the engines are gonna work to get the pumps pushing the fuel for you through, you know, so the hydraulics worked, then once I run the engines, certain engines for the front or rear or mid upper, run the engines up and get in, and check them, make sure the guns were elevate and depressed and the turret would go around cause we are using a Frazer-Nash turret, it was the best turret I’ve ever come across, two grips like this, you go like that and when you are on the turret, [unclear] you know, it was a very good turret, but all oil, oil you know, and that was the best, the other turret I worked on was the in the Halifax, I forget the name of it but it had a central control like this and it wasn’t very good, you know, wasn’t so good as, you know, it was so easy and but yes alright, I get the aircrew to run the engine, they were all good lads, we were all lads together, you know, there was no quibbling, I mean, I’ve been down in Lincoln and one of the officers sitting in the bus, pat me on the back, oh God, he said, now the drink we get in town, it was just like that, you know, and I’m a young lad, he’s an officer and he’s talking to me, I’m so [unclear] [laughs] but yeah, the comradeship, that was [unclear] about the services and the army the same I suppose, but in the Royal Air Force the comradeship was unbelievable, I mean, I went down to Metheringham in, I think it was number 9 Squadron, used to be down, I’m not sure now and al goes in it and the curator in this museum he’s in it and he says, you know, this be about, he showed this bit about a DVD about armourer, you know, yeah, I’m talking to him so, you know, as I said, you know, what rank were you? Oh yeah, I thought, he would say, you know, I was sergeant, flight sergeant, oh, he says, I was group captain, I said, you know what? I said, it’s the first time in my life without standing attention to salute you, of course, he says, sir [laughs] I said, I was in the [unclear], he said, you do a good job, he said, it was stranger when he said that, you know, and he said, group captain, [unclear] [laughs], you know yourself, ay? Group captain, oh dear, oh dear, that’s what I liked about the Christmas time, during New Years’ time down at Swinderby, in the Christmas time all yerks, we all sit down and the officers are coming round, I suppose you know it, and they serve you and you know, and he’s great, you can chat but you know it’s still officers and I remember on New Year’s Eve, be [unclear] on the naffy, we were all in there and the CO comes in as well and the adjutant and all you know, all the big nobs, they are all joining hands, you know, the Auld Lang Syne, is good fun, yeah, is all, great it was, anyway so we all go back to the bed that night, yeah, so we are getting in bed and while we are in bed, we are asleep, and the signal starts, action stations parachute, action stations parachute, bloody hell, out of bed! We had to get out of bed quick, dressed, downstairs, grab a rifle, get outside, on parade, get in the truck, taken out to the airfield, they take us out the airfield, good God, got standing, gotta guard the aircraft I’m standing there, get captured by the army, it’s a trial, the army come in they captured us [laughs] but it was just to show you right if it was, you know, but the army took part in it and it was good though but at the time you didn’t know when you heard this tannoy system going action stations parachute, oh dear, oh dear, [unclear] but oh yeah, lovely, we’ll [unclear]
IB: When you arming the aircraft, what sort of conditions were you working under, as regards thinks the weather conditions and the time that you had to turn round [unclear] to get [unclear] and back?
JH: Well, you see, I spent a lot of time at Swinderby, which was a training centre really for aircrew, so, it wasn’t as operational, so we, we weren’t supposed tied down so much, I mean, if the gunner ops is got to be, they happened really time, no doubt, [unclear] go out every morning doing a DI and every tradesman go and do their part of the job, it sometimes it was a job to get the aircrew to run the engines for you, it was just one of those things but if the weather is bad, course you still had to do it, I mean, I had to go in aircraft and it’s really freezing cold and snowing and you had to get onto the tail end of the aircraft because the RSJ on the rear turret has got a leak, I had to go out and check it, of course that’s not my job so I report it to the fitters, you know, so the fitters come and do their job but you know, you still have to go out and do your job not matter what the weather was like, you know, even [unclear], you know, it just had to be done, clear, might have to go out and clear the [unclear], clear the snow off them another thing, get snowed up you gotta clear the snow off cause, I mean, even flying at night just the same, you were still training at night, day or night, flying, I mean, some of the nights I will be awake all night flying duties, I‘ll have to go out at six and go out there, wait there, wait till the aircraft took off, then I could lay down fall and get some sleep till they come back or come back for a leak or something, you know, which we had to go out and check and let’s see, I all day, the aircrew, luckily night flying duties I’d go to the mess and get a good supper you know normally you wouldn’t laugh but I mean when we had an ordinary and supper at the mess I mean you wouldn’t get eggs and things like that but if it is a night flying duty the crew, they would get eggs, we get them as well, yeah, luckily. Weren’t supposed to be, go them, anyway. What else got there then?
IB: We talked a little bit earlier of how your thoughts and feelings about the fact that you were loading bombs onto an airplane so that it could potentially go and kill people
JH: Yeah.
IB: What were your thoughts and feelings about that at the time?
JH: At the time, I thought it was a good thing, I thought, well, we are doing a good job here, you know, East Kirkby, we are putting the bombs up, they are gonna go out, get killed, thousands of Germans, good, [unclear] dead Germans, good, I can’t feel that way now, I just can’t, if I people that see Germany now, same age as me, in the war just the same, [unclear] and we are all good friends, you know, and that’s how it should have been, how it should be, as I said, I went to the museum for the Holocaust, yeah, I’ve been to Norwich, Norfolk, no sorry it’s, Nottinghamshire, I went there talking to the chap who was lecturing that, I said, people don’t seem to remember that we were fighting the Nazis, not fighting the German people, we weren’t fighting the German people although that’s what he was, it was getting over to so when I was young during the war I we are fighting the German people but we weren’t, we were fighting the Nazi regime not the people and that’s, that is what I feel now but then it was good, I think, we’re killing them, let’s kill some more, kill them all, is nothing bad like the dead Germans yeah, so, you know, to look at life like that, but I was nineteen, twenty then but I’m ninety four now, I can’t feel that way, you know, as I say, you to think that I put a bomb up to think now that bomb I put up there young children, babies maybe, completely innocent, I’ve helped to kill them, I’ve helped, not killed, I’ve helped to do it, the aircrew not their fault, not even the aircrew, they were ordered to do it, they’ve got to do it, they’ve got no choice about it, I’ve got no choice about it, it’s the war, I’ve been told I’ve got to do it this thing, you see, during the war years when you was in the service, I was in the Royal Air Force, yeah, and the army, navy, your life is not yours anymore, it belongs to the, the country that you live in, it’s your life belongs to them now, not you, you’re just a tool, you’re absolute tool, someone pulling the strings, [unclear] I’m told, that’s terrible, four years terrible, God, go ley, [unclear] I don’t know,
IB: At the end of your time in the RAF, were you demobbed at the end of the war, you stayed [unclear]?
JH: No, no, I didn’t want to stay, no, I actually I was sent to Birmingham after I was, you know, that’s it, don’t want armourers no more so I sent down to [unclear] in London they sent me back up to Birmingham, when I get there I’m told, go to the police and I, [unclear] and I went to the police so I went to the police, can you see, yeah, ok.
US: He’s coming.
JH: Yeah, I went to the police and of course
[tape stopped]
JH: My demobbed number was number 42 and I was up at Birmingham at the time and as a recruiting officer, I wasn’t officer but that’s why they called a recruiting officer, you know, the people want to come in and join the Royal Air Force I would interview them, ask them questions, if they failed, turned down the army, and you picked the best Royal Air Force you sent them in to see the officer and why, my number’s coming up next, I’ll be out, when the DROs come up next month be deferred, put back and I was dying to get out and I went in the office and I told him, I feel like deserting, he said, get me victory House in London, get me, he did mention a name at [unclear], I said I wasn’t quite sure of that so I had to ring up Victory House, you got to find Victory House, they called me back in the office, get your kit packed tonight, he said, I got you posted down to [unclear] so I got posted to Hall line Acton where I was, you know, recruiting now, it was great, was [unclear] every night lovely so it was like being home but I finally got demobbed from there but then, can I go to bed Rita? But it was there, when I was at Swinderby and used to come down to Lincoln, we got into the castle, look at the old Victorian prison they opened, we would go in there, so me and my mate goes in there, there’s two girls in there, we chat [unclear] very young men, naturally, talked to them and this girl spoke to them, her name is Rita so I went [unclear] took me to her so can I see you again? She says, yeah, so we arranged to see her again and what I should do when I was back in camp, I’ll bring her up cause she can I speak to Ms. Rita Chapman, please? Yeah, so she put me through, she come on phone and I am off duty, can I come down and see you? Yeah, come then, so go down there and we used to come down and we had a good friendship, it was platonic, it was a true, honest friendship, nothing more and nothing less and we used to go out cycling in the country [unclear] we enjoyed that companionship and eventually I got posted away so back down to [unclear] from there I got demobbed and when I was, I [unclear] uniform so I took it out, put this photo in a letter, wrote on it to this girl Rita Chapman, put the letter, this is my photograph and I want you to look after it for me, so I posted it to her, war’s over, I’m out. Fifty seven years later, I might be, my daughter’s mother died, Gladys she died, and we used to go out and [unclear] and I come up once for me and I went down to the Brayford Pool in a pub, William the Fourth, and talked to the lady who was chef here, she was clearing when I was outside, I said, you’re wasted, you’re alright, I said, used to be with the Royal Air Force during and told about this young girl I met Rita Chapman, she said, what a lovely story, she said, why not tell it to the Lincolnshire Echo and read it, she said, promise you, I promise so I went over there, I saw this report apparently he is well known, [unclear] and I forget his name now, his real name, name Pete something, and I went to see him, I said, I don’t know why and that’s it so that weekend I go back home and on a Monday on that weekend when I get back home, the phone rings, I picked the phone up, so a voice said, is that Mr. Hanks? I said, yes, speaking. So she said, this is Rita and I know it wasn’t my daughter Rita, is there any other Rita I knew? And it was this Rita Chapman and we met then after that, I came up here and we were married in 2010, won’t we? We got married. And I’ve been here ever since but I lost her unfortunately in ’13, bloody cancer again, but we had ten, eleven years, wonderful, and you see, my daughter’s name when I got back home we had a son, my son was born in 1947 and he was named Raymond, his photo’s up there now, he’s dead now, anyway and we had a girl, and my wife said, what shall we name her, baby girl? So I thought, I said, name her Rita and I say, let’s call her Rita, don’t ask me why and I said the reason I gave her the name is I didn’t know of anybody else so honest and true and trustworthy as this girl Rita Chapman because there nothing ever went wrong between us, nothing, she was a good companion and I must admit she was a good companion to me cause when you’re living with blokes all the time it’s nice to speak to a female and that’s how I named my daughter Rita, that’s how she got her name when she rang up she says it’s Rita [unclear] and that’s the part, you know, great but you know I thought she did listen and she said, cause everywhere we went, Rita would tell everybody, I think Rita in fact she was on the TV, they took us down to the studio, I forget where it is now, it was on the news, and they interviewed us down on the TV so Lincoln, all Lincoln knows about, I think so, must do, she tells, everybody she met, she would tell her this story about how we met no matter who it was she’d tell, now I’m telling you, she would have told you right [laughs].
IB: Tells us a little bit about your life after demob, and how they treated you and how you [unclear] about it?
JH: I was demobbed, at the time I was pleased to get out, I was pleased to get out, naturally. I went back to work in me old job, I was a metal polisher, and I was polishing for chrome plating, you know anything to do with chrome plating, if it was a bumper bar for a car or car handles, anything that was chrome plated, we were polishing the metal ready for plating and I for quite a number of years dropped and changed but in them days I could pack up me job and say to the manager, I’m going at twelve o’clock, it’s elven o’clock, hour, one hour, [unclear] walked down the road, go and get another job, not like it’s today, I mean, I ‘ve been in and out jobs, packing up here, go down the road, go in there, go somewhere else, all the time, all the time, [unclear] I mean, once I was working away, I just come back and it was the worst ever, you come back, you gotta go to work, and this chap, [unclear] at me, he said, oh, you’ll have to work till half past seven tonight, so I’m not, said, you’re after, I’m not, so I’m packing up, that was it, so I packed up, I wouldn’t gonna work, I was, I must admit, I wasn’t workaholic, I worked till six o’clock, that’s it, I finished, I’d do no more, enough, so anybody says me you work, you know, I’m not, you don’t tell me how I’m gonna work, I tell you when I’m gonna work, so that’s it, I worked till six o’clock and I finished, go home then, that’s alright, I’ve always been, and of course later on in the years, me and my mate we joined together, we made a little company of our own, we were self-employed and we were known as T&H metal polishers in London and we’d done quite well, we done good work and we done very well, earning good money, no problem at all, never had any problems, until time came to retire I said, I’ve had enough so I pack and I gave it up, I could have gone on big business, but I wasn’t workaholic, I’m afraid not, our life is more important than money, you know, you got to have money to live earn enough but that’s it, then enjoy yourself, enjoy life, not there forever, but I think life treated me pretty well, actually I mean, I’ve been quite satisfied by my life, I mean, I did have cancer in the bowels, bowel cancer once but it was in the colon so I was did chop it out and that was it but I mean , I was lucky [unclear] I’ve met, I felt I’ve been lucky all me life, I can’t think of any bad luck, only, sometimes things are going wrong, then they go right, no stay wrong, gone right, I fell as if I’ve been very, very, very lucky, I went through the whole war and never even cut me finger, so I mean, look at some of the things that some people have to go through, illnesses, you know, or [unclear] or trouble galore. But never, I can’t grable, satisfies with me life, don’t ask for any more, health, happiness, nothing more, nothing less.
IB: What do you feel is now about your service days and?
JH: Looking back over the years of me service days, I enjoyed me service days not the reason for me service days, the war, not that but being in service, I, the service days were enjoyable, comradeship, friendship, you know, you couldn’t ask for more, you live in a barrack room full of fellows, you don’t argue, you know, you talk to each other, you know, you grab in the naffy your cup of tea, buy a beer or go out with them and, you know, you just, that was a part, that was a good part about, I enjoyed that part very much, that was the sad part when you had to leave it behind, really, it was only after I got out, that I began to feel sorry, I was dying to get out but then when the time came, I came out [unclear] I could have gone, could have stayed on obviously but I didn’t want to stay on, they were offering it to you, you could stay on to give you so much money, I forget what it was now, but I didn’t want to stay on but then after I got back, you know, got back into reality, you are working for a living, and you had to work hard, all my life as a polisher, I’ve always been, you got a price for a job, you got a job, you gotta polish it, you get payed for the price that job, you gotta use, you know, your brain, you gotta find the quickest way to do the job, and do it the right way, quality, it’s quality first, obviously, but you gotta give them the quality and you gotta give it to them as quick as you possibly can, the quicker you do it, the more money you can earn. So that was peaceful, I’ve done it all my life peaceful and that was tight, sometimes you get a job for polishing and it was tricky, very tricky and some of the jobs could have been dangerous, trying to polish it where you could get caught up in the tool and you cut your fingers off or God knows what, you know, that sometimes could be a bit dodgy, sometimes you get a job really easy when I first went back to it after the war, I went down, back to me old job, and we was doing [unclear] lighters at the time, and we was in them days when I was gonna back to work and I’d [unclear] the RAF and said to the people in the recruiting centre, I earned eight pound a week, eight pound, they laughed at me, eight pound a week cause in them days I a lot of money, I did a lot of money, but when I started work back on Ronson lighters twenty one pound a week for a while but then of course Ronson decided, you know, I’m not gonna pay this much money so my governors said, we not gonna pay that money to get the [unclear] down and so me and me mates said, right that’s it, we’re gonna go on strike, so we did, we didn’t go to work, what happened? We got sacked [laughs]. Got sacked, but there you are, there it goes, I mean, we should have said, well, yeah, I mean, if a good wage was eight pounds a week, to earn twenty one is a bad [laughs] yeah I excepted it but we didn’t wanna except that so he said, right, you’re out, that was it, out, and then, in them days they could do that, you know, they wanted to sack you, they could sack you, they can’t now, can’t they? Isn’t it? Some good jobs. [file missing]
IB: Ok.
JH: When do we start off again?
IB: Any thoughts about the things that you saw, any experience that has left? Lasting impression?
JH: Yes, Swinderby, I forget how many crashes I saw there actually but there was one I remember that came down just off the airfield in front of a cottage and I had to go out there after the rest of the had cleared the stuff away to get and check on the armour equipment that need to come out and inside the aircraft, what were the remains of the aircraft, there seemed to be the scalp of the pilot hanging on the control column, you know, his scalp and shoes on the ground that had come off the aircrew’s feet obviously so they must have taken the bodies away and left the bits and pieces, I checked things out that you know and [unclear] alright to do except I had to go to the burial of at least one of the crew, I’m not sure, but I had to go to a burial at a church at and, I forget where it is now, just outside of Swinderby, Bassingham or Disney, I’m not sure, there’s a church there, and I’ve the escort, part of the escort the coffin in for burial in the ground, it’s still up there and very often I go up there and I do walk up and down and pay my respects, you know, read and make sure that the there’s some there that occurred after I’d gone or before I arrived but there are some there that when I was there so will be the crew that I probably escorted into the burial ground and I do often go up there and pay my respects, you know, I think it’s best, you know nice to do, I think it’s nice, it takes you back in the years and you can relive the old times and you think about the old times and the comradeship, that’s the point the comradeship, you see, and it was, actually is a photo up there, up the top there, on the left is, one of the, can you see it? Is one up there which the guard room and next is [unclear] down the tab and the one on the right hand side is the SHQ headquarters at Swinderby, they’re not there now, they’ve taken away, it’s all gone now but that’s, but it’s nice, to, I often drive up there, just for the sake of reliving memories, go up there and I told you about and I stood there, I parked the car, sitting there and in the park on the runway and I the airfield would be the dispersal and this is where I’m sitting in the car and I remember bringing the aircrew, the aircraft through here, cross this road [alarm goes off]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with John Hanks
Creator
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Ian Boole
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHanksJ160622, PHanksJ1602
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Pending review
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00:42:58 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Scotland--Shetland
Description
An account of the resource
John Hanks joined the RAF and served as an armourer. Describes his role and his duties. Tells of his posting at Swinderby and East Kirkby. Gives a graphic and vivid account of an aircraft crash at RAF Swinderby. Describes comradeship between ground crew and aircrew. Expresses personal views regarding the bombing campaign.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
1660 HCU
bombing up
Catalina
crash
ground personnel
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
military ethos
military service conditions
perception of bombing war
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Swinderby
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/979/11390/AMarshallKW160208.2.mp3
b4c875c317b085602882d78793863efa
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Marshall, Ken
Kenneth Wilfred Marshall
K W Marshall
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ken Marshall (3041150, Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 103 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-02-08
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Marshall, KW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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IL: It’s the 8th of, 8th of February 2016. Ian Locker. And I’m interviewing Ken Marshall in his home in Hornsea. So, Ken tell us about your early life and how you developed a love of flying.
KM: In 1937 I was already at the grammar school and I went with one of the thousand —
IL: So whereabouts were you born Ken?
KM: Barton on Humber.
IL: You were born in Barton.
KM: My grandfather was the vicar of Barton on Humber.
IL: Right.
KM: Reverend HGC North-Cox. And I also knew the man that started the Samaritans. Chad Varah. Reverend. I knew him as a boy. And I kept in touch with him all my life because I was connected with aspects of family law and about suicides etcetera. In 1937 I went to what they called the Empire Air Display at Hemswell. And it’s very important in my thinking because the planes there were called Hampdens and Heyfords and Blenheims. The interesting thing about the Heyfords and the Hampdens they had an under gun turret. They could look downwards. And the Lancaster never, afterwards never had one. But pre-war they designed the planes to have a gunner looking downwards. Which could have saved a great lots of lives if they’d had one connected to the Lancaster. So that was the Empire Air Display and of course by 1938 across the river at Hull, at Brough they were making aeroplanes and fantastic numbers of trainer planes, were being trained as pilots there. So I saw a lot of aircraft. Then there was a special plane or two came to Barton with a man called Sir Alan Cobham. He was a famous flyer pre-war and when they would hire a field bring their planes and people could, could fly to — have flips for the first time. And I didn’t go. I asked my father but never mind. But that was that.
IL: It’s recording. It’s recording, Ken. Don’t worry.
KM: I went to grammar school and the grammar school headmaster was an ex-wartime stretcher bearer. Great. Great man was this headmaster. We loved him. Oh by the way in 1938 at the grammar school we all turned out because the Germans, the Nazis got permission to fly the Hindenburg up the River Humber. And we all turned out to watch this huge cigar thing fly across the river. Come across England. Of course it was the Hindenburg and of course it was a disastrous end for it because it caught fire when it was there in America. But we all saw that. That was 1938.
IL: Gosh.
KM: A year before the job started in that sense. But then September the 3rd was, was in 1939 the war started and, and we were all amongst filling sandbags and digging trenches and hearing air raid sirens.
IL: So how old were you when the war started?
KM: Pardon?
IL: How old were you when the war started?
KM: Well. I was born 1926.
IL: Right.
KM: So, that gives you some indication. And my brother was a naval officer and he went right through the war. He was torpedoed mid-Atlantic and saved by a Canadian Corvette. He was a Marconi man. Chief radio officer. Always going from ship to ship. Interesting that my brother was away. I always wanted to fly Catalinas if I got trained on those because my brother would be below on the sea and I could look after him from up in the air. That was the feeling. That was the feeling. But anyway the headmaster one morning he said that there was a concern called the Air Training Corps started. And I would be fourteen or fifteen at the time. And dad and I went down to Cobb Hall and there was a man there with his wings. Looked about three feet across them. He was the manager, RAF VR, of Eastwood Cement Works in South Ferriby. But he was the CO and it was there that I got my first introduction to any flying at all. In the Air Training Corps apart from doing all these studies to get to university and the war time, all that sort of thing nevertheless we had trips to, to camps. Air Training Corps camps. There was, Digby was one in Lincolnshire. Kirton Lindsey was another one. And an organised one that took us up to Elsham. I flew in a Wellington bomber there. And I’ve never forgotten the pilot. He was called Sergeant Spooner. He was an Australian. He did twelve trips. A marvellous chap. He really was. That was the first time I’d ever left the ground in anything at all. And his name, he was lost and his name is recorded in the Memorial Book in the RAF 103 Squadron, Elsham. Whatever. In that sense. So the grammar school was another thing that introduced me. A great day when I — I never got a scholarship. I was paid for. Four guineas a term to go and followed my brother. And anyway I joined the Air Training Corps and I passed all the, very quickly passed all the proficiency badges and was chosen to go down to Lincoln to stay with a family on a Friday night and a Saturday night and where we assembled gliders on, on Lincoln Common. And I was being taught to fly gliders at the age of sixteen, seventeen. Interesting isn’t it? How exciting it was.
IL: So how did they get the —
KM: I went down by bus.
IL: Were they, were they towed gliders then?
KM: No. No.
IL: They weren’t winched.
KM: They had a balloon winch.
IL: Right.
KM: They had been altered so they could do ground slides and then six feet up and so forth.
IL: Ok.
KM: Until finally if you were, they cast off. But it was only a short, short flight. That was all. But to be doing that. It was exciting as a boy wasn’t it?
IL: Absolutely.
KM: It wasn’t the, and for — so there we are. So that was my introduction to flying in one way or another. Going to ATC and I would frequently go on my bicycle up to Elsham. I’d pass the guardroom. They waved me in. I’d go to the crew room and say, ‘Sir, are you flying today? Is there anybody?’ And I frequently flew in Lancasters thereafter. And I must tell you about one of the trips. We were out on the North Sea at about ten thousand feet coming in. It wasn’t operational. Air test. And I said to the gunner, the rear gunner, ‘May I sit in the rear?’ And he said yes. Which I did. And then suddenly somebody said, ‘Ah there’s Treetops Bathing Pool down there. That’s where we do our dinghy drill,’ If they got ditched in the sea. And the skipper put it into a nose dive and that, that Lancaster shook from side to side as we went down. I was going down backwards of course. And I never forgot that. But two weeks later I was at a local dance, this is before I went away. I saw this rear gunner and he recognised me. I was in Air Training Corps uniform still. Not having yet gone to the University Air Squadron. And he was, he was a sergeant once but he didn’t have any sergeant’s stripes but he had his air brevet and he used to tell me he was stood down with flu and he didn’t fly because they didn’t and he lost his crew that night. And he refused to fly with anybody else. So he was on the ground and he was kept where he was. And I don’t want to talk any more about that. He was kept there. They took his sergeant’s stripes but they couldn’t take his air brevet from him but he didn’t I think he said he’d done ten or twelve trips. Whatever. And as I say it’s not easy. You see, I can’t [pause] First flight in a Wellington bomber, yes. What’s the next one? The Air Training Corps. What? What? Can you switch it on and off?
IL: Oh yes.
KM: [unclear]
[recording paused]
KM: In a similar way I went to Kirmington and rode in there. And I managed to get a flight in an Airspeed Oxford which I was later to learn to fly on. Stop.
[recording paused]
KM: Start it again.
IL: Ok.
KM: At Elsham there was, there was originally a Halifax flight there. And I once saw a Halifax coming in on fire on one of my trips. Wheels up. And the fire tender was alongside it by the time it skidded to a stop. Covered it with foam and they all got out. But it’s a dodgy job even to see that.
IL: Oh absolutely.
[recording paused]
KM: I was junior champ.
IL: Two seconds. Go on. Sorry Ken.
KM: I was junior champ and then later I was [victor] of Durham twice as senior in the sports. I was always in to everything active like that. But at the grammar school a group captain came down from Elsham called Constantine. And I received books because I’d matriculated to go to Cambridge University at the age of sixteen and eight months. And I’m very proud of that because of what kids don’t do today. But, but it was that qualification that I chose to use to go to Durham because I already had two friends. One older than I in my own class who eventually became a wing commander. Wing commander John Cannon flying jets and things later on in life. But, but and later in life Constantine became an air vice marshal and I have pictures of him with what was to be another university man later in my life of course from Manchester University. So, so at seventeen and a quarter I volunteered to be RAF VR. Three days at Doncaster doing all the exams and etcetera. And so that was the idea. And then eventually came a letter telling me, as I say I was still doing these gliders at weekends but eventually I got the call to arms. I called it that because that was, ‘”Dear sir,” from the Air Ministry. “Report to Durham University Air Squadron. Your obedient servant, sir.” Its rather a laugh really when you —
IL: So —
KM: That was 1943.
IL: Did they — were you, was — did you actually get paid at university then?
KM: No.
IL: Or was it —
KM: No.
IL: It was just —
KM: Pocket money came from my parents.
IL: Right. It wasn’t, it wasn’t like the sort of scholarships that you get now at university.
KM: Are you still —? Oh. Yeah. No. And I’ll talk about that. Whilst I was at, on a half term out of the university I was invited to go to Goxhill which was the United States Air Force to fly in a Lightning but, a two seater but it was unserviceable. So they said, ‘There’s a new pilot here. Could you, could you navigate him. Map read him to Burtonwood in Lancashire.’ Or Cheshire. I said, ‘Certainly.’ So I did the trip in the front of a Boston bomber with a pilot and the crew chief. Just the three of us. And I was eighteen and a half then. When I look at boys today of eighteen and a half and what we were doing or could do or willing to do in those days. So, so University Air Squadron was marvellous. Marvellous. I lived in the castle. I was at University College. My two friends who were lifelong friends. One was from Spain. He’d come from Spain. His mother was Spanish and he went to Barnard Castle Public School, public school and then came and Durham, and then came on to the university. That’s where I met him. And his roommate was George Malcolm Brown who eventually was classified to be a navigator and trained as a navigator in Canada and who later in life became the vice chancellor back at Durham. In the time I recall I lost them both. But marvellous to think of those friends. I kept them all my life. And when I got my, a degree and would go back to university in ’75 to ’78 and got my law degree Johnnie came all the way from Scotland. I’ve got photographs of us all together, staying at Durham with the vice chancellor. Fantastic story isn’t it? The things that have gone on. But it was a wonderful time. There was sixty of us from all, all backgrounds and throughout the country and half were arts and half were science. I did science, physics and maths and got in to BSc. I got my first recommendation for a commission at the end of the course and which would have then taken me I don’t doubt into Cranwell because I was offered it. But the first, the next move was into the Royal Air Force proper. And that was down at, down at Torquay.
IL: So in the, in the University Air Squadron did you actually fly? Or was — were you still doing navigating?
KM: No. No. No. We took, the whole ITW they called it when it wasn’t at the university. It was all the same subject. The armaments, the signals, some flying we did we did because we had, we wore battle dress and we were being taught to fly Airspeed Oxfords.
IL: Right.
KM: Those twin engine jobs. So we did some flying as well. And my pilot was a Sikh. A flight lieutenant. Very unusual. I’ve got photographs of him with his Sikh whatever on. He used to get in the plane first because you never saw him without his [ pause ] and the reverse thing when he landed. I would have to get out first and by the time he reappeared then he would have his whatever. But there were people from all over. And we used to go down to the swimming baths at 7 o’clock in the morning for an hour. Everybody had to learn to swim and there were only two out the sixty that couldn’t which gave an indication of the sort of young fellows we were that we all made big efforts in all because the numbers of swimming pools there were in the country were very — but we were all very active in that sense.
[recording paused]
IL: Go on again.
KM: We left Durham and we all had to report down at Torquay. The Germans got to know we were there because the Torquay people had never had a bomb. Americans had been there in the hotels before. And destroyed the hotel next to where we were. Fortunately there was nobody in it. But the Germans certainly knew. They were trying to kill aircrew. There’s no question about it because that’s where everybody went at that particular time. Of our ilk anyway.
[recording paused]
KM: Torquay was an ACRC. Air Crew Reception Centre. We did three months there. Discipline. Marching backwards and forwards. Learning other subjects. Getting medical tests as well to see we hadn’t been naughty with girls and things like that which [laughs] we never knew anything about them anyway. And we were, so three months there discip and learning air ministry, learning the air force law. Air force law. What’s it called? Anyway there were two books that we had to get to know about air force law. So, well if you’re going to be an officer and you had to hand out law and a time for misdemeanours whatever they might be they were still all part of it. From there I went to Bridgnorth and that was just another holding place. And from Bridgnorth we went to, some of us were distributed to RAF stations to pass the time. I went up to Full Sutton. I was there in that bad winter at the beginning of ’45 and it was a Halifax station. And I do recall loading. I worked in the bomb dump preparing five hundred pound bombs and putting them on trolleys. And the armourers, they, they armed them. But I do recall that one, one particular day it was nothing but incendiaries and the incendiaries went, went to Dresden. And I don’t give a damn about that because they weren’t making cuckoo clocks. They were making bits for Heinkels and Messerschmitts. So no matter what the historians try and say, oh we should never have done this but against the background of what the Nazis were doing that we learned later they got their whatever we called it. But I remember because one of the containers broke open and Peter Greenwood who I remained with, he was at Oxford and I was with him then. He remembered an armourer knocking one a brick. They were only about eighteen inches long. We just stood in the snow. Eighteen inches of snow on that particular time. But that was RAF Full Sutton. Interestingly, my doctor friend had a plane in Full Sutton in September of 2015. I went flying with him there at Full Sutton. After all those years. At Full Sutton. There’s a, there’s a prison there now with the most heinous criminals left in there. But to go back after all those years and start flying again. But I’d flown at other places in between. But anyway, on return away from Full Sutton went to flying school which was up at Carlisle. On Tiger Moths. And I, and I went solo at eight and a half hours in Tiger Moths. The instructor said I’d done two perfect circuits and he said, ‘Righto. She’s yours. Just go.’ And you had, you had to do well. I wanted to do. But there was a very good initiation thing going on there. When we arrived in our billets that first night there were some guys being tossed in blankets. And that was an initiation. Get on the blanket and three times because they’d soloed that day. But what I didn’t know at the time there was one of, one of our chaps. He went at six hours. I was to find out that the instructors there both commissioned and non-commissioned they were like bookies. They were acting like bookies with horses. The odds on horses. And they were having bets on us as to who could go first. They were risking our necks to make money out of us. We didn’t know that actually happened. We did learn that. It was fourteen hours whether you went solo or not. It didn’t make any difference if you, if you graduated out of there to be further trained that was where it happened. And that was at Carlisle. Kingstown Carlisle. But then where I actually did my flying was from a place in Scotland called Patrick, Kirkpatrick Fleming. It’s just over the border from Gretna Green. I always remember this place. And when I landed the first thing I did, I didn’t kiss the instructor I kissed the ground of Scotland naturally.
[recording paused]
KM: We were in and out of this place called Heaton Park at Manchester and I loved being at Manchester because it was always between being sent somewhere or other. You were always on your way. And it was at Heaton Park that I and Johnnie and several of us were offered a place at Cranwell. But we decided no we’ll hang on and go abroad. We didn’t. I don’t, we weren’t thinking about getting the chop but we thought if we can fit it in and go travelling so we will. That was the thoughts of boys of, us at nineteen.
IL: It doesn’t seem unreasonable.
KM: But the next posting was to RAF Driffield. We were there for a month. We’d do any job at all. And then one morning called up on seven of us and they called upon several of us and we found ourselves carrying seven coffins. Canadians. All under twenty two. Little brass plates. They’d returned with a bomb on board and they’d been told to fly the plane out to the North Sea and let it go and bale out. But they decided as a little family because that’s how they chose themselves when they assembled a crew in hangars, they decided to land. And as soon as they touched down at Driffield that was it. It’s a terrible thought. And we took them down and put them in railway trucks and I don’t know where they went then. But it was, it was a thought at the time. We didn’t really express it but we did later. Were we reinforcements or were we replacements? But they were a long way from home those lads. But that was the point. The thing about Driffield. And another thing about this we went down into Driffield one night and the only whatever they called the pub but nearby was the town hall. There was a dance going on there. And it was announced during this dance, night time of course that there was going to be some ballroom exhibition dancing. And everybody kept to the walls and this couple came on. Him in coat tails and the girl, woman in a dancing dress and the music struck up and immediately ha’pennies and pennies started flying through the air to shove them off. Life was too short. We didn’t want to know about ballroom dancing. And so that was an illustration of how the minds — the mindset of people. Let’s see where I’ve got to. Solo at eight and a half hours. I’ve done that. Because that was — so what’s happening next? One month at Driffield look. I’ve got them in chronological order. But anyway, we [pause] we can talk about this now. Ok?
IL: Ok.
KM: Switched on?
IL: It is.
KM: The next thing was back to Heaton Park. And we were getting kitted out by — for all our own flying clothing. We were given a whistle to put on by the neck. That was in case you were shot down. You could communicate with one another. And I remember we were on a, on a draft in that sense and somebody blew a whistle and the sergeant discip and he said, ‘I’ll take, I’ll take a number of you off draft.’ And we, and four hundred, four hundred whistles blew back at him. That was the sort of spirit there was. But this was following the fact that, that VE day had come up. And we didn’t know what was going to happen but we were, we were tipped, we never knew where we were going to go. So we were put on a train, found ourselves up on the Clyde to board a ship called the Aquitania which was a sister ship of the Titanic. I never want to see that Titanic film ever because we went across dodging U-boats even then then. Even though it was war — [pause] But I was home during this period. Just before that my eldest brother was back on the convoys and I celebrated VE day with my brother, with Bert Cowton who’d been at Durham with me and he’d come back with his wings from Canada err from America and his brother who was a flight lieutenant bomb aimer who had been on the Peenemunde raid. The Peenemunde raid was where they went after the rockets and these flying bombs and that sort of — but there were two brothers with two brothers celebrating and I never knew much about that night. I do remember that we were going to the local dance after I’d climbed out through a window in the pub and going to this place and they wouldn’t let us in because it was a floor upstairs and they shouted through the door, ‘There’s too many people in here.’ And I remember the two elder brothers saying, ‘We won the bloody war for you lot. Let us in.’ And I don’t remember anything after that except waking up on the carpet just down the street at my parent’s home with a bucket beside me and a woman who I didn’t know holding a cup of coffee handy for me. Yeah.
IL: Great.
KM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
IL: Back on again.
KM: So I went across dodging. The ship was changing course every twenty minutes. We slept on the outer deck and I was going down the main staircase and I saw three ladies in uniform. And I didn’t know the uniform so I said, ‘Are you, are you ladies British?’ One said, ‘Yes, we are. And you’re from Barton on Humber.’ I couldn’t believe it. Somebody from Barton on Humber in the middle of the Atlantic. She said, ‘I’m a stewardess.’ She said, ‘I’m a career girl with Cunard.’ She said, ‘I want you to come to my cabin now every afternoon at 4 o’clock.’ So, I told the lads, the other lads she was a Miss. And I said, ‘Look, gee, I’ve got a woman on board.’ So I used to go along there for cakes and tea etcetera and she was forty two. I didn’t tell these lads, my own colleagues that she was forty two. But there was nothing like that. But it was just a joke. Yeah, ‘I’ve got a woman on board.’ But and I remember on board was the royal family, the Dutch royal family. Princess Julianna and all their children. What was happening they were going to America because she used to take me walking. Not the princess. Up on the decks and introduce me to certain people. You know. Everybody was always pleased to shake hands. Whatever.
[recording paused]
IL: Ok.
KM: So we arrived in New York in a fog. We ran aground on Staten Island. Or Coney Island rather. I was later to visit that with my brother and did a parachute jump in a restrained parachute. But eventually the fog cleared. We went up river and alongside of us came all these, these boats. The fire, the fire boats with all their hoses going. And boats with bands on playing the American music. And American girls because there were a lot of wounded coming. Coming back on the Aquitania. And we were met there by a lot of volunteers on the dock side. We were given chocolates and goodness knows what else. And, and then went to a camp called Camp Kilmer. Camp Kilmer held thirty, it could accommodate thirty thousand. It was the main exit point for the, for the army people coming over into Europe. And we were given a weeks’, weeks’ leave. Go and please yourselves in New York. And that was when I went to meet my brother’s wife. She was American. And, and because it was very exciting to be in New York and we were invited to all sort of places on Park Avenue and Park Lane. Millionaire’s places. All these invitations and free tickets to go in to theatres and cinemas. And I remember going to one place called the Diamond Club. We were told not to take our hats off if we wanted anything. And this is where some, two American officers came in and recognised us as British and said, ‘You guys don’t have to pay for anything. We’ve got loads of dough. We’re going to treat you.’ So I never forgot that in the sense of the generosity of all the Americans. It was there all the time. The way they looked after the service people and whatever. And there’s a bit of a story to come about that later. But eventually now we were put on a train. On a steam train. An enormous locomotive. We were put in Pullman coaches that turned into beds at night. With little electric fans on them. And we were three days going down to, we didn’t know where we were going but we were told it was Florida and we were turned out at a place called Clewiston. Well, as we arrived there the guys that were already down there they came low flying over the aircraft err over the train to let us know. Zoom, zoom, zoom. You know, it excited us. So then we started training there and in the huts there with a swimming pool. There were invitations to go down in to Miami and stay with whatever. They organised that. But the planes in there were Boeings PT-17 days trainers. Radial engine job. Much more advanced then the Tiger Moth. And the other plane was the AT6. Well, of course the planes were flying day and night. It was happening all the time. There was a dread. We used to practice on a Saturday morning. There was no flying Saturday morning. It was practice Wings Parade. It was the practice Wings Parade presentation. But that was putting up the RAF flag on the yardarm of the station and then everybody paraded and we were wet through. Absolutely wet through. The heat and the moisture there. Brand new uniform always for that. And then, then the weekend was ours free. And I used to go, take a boat onto Lake Okeechobee. The place was full of crocodiles and snakes and of course we saw the Seminole Indians there. These are the indigenous people who lived in the Florida swamps and things. They hunted. They hunted with bows and arrows. And if you were caught low flying over there and came back with an arrow in your aeroplane you were dismissed. That’s well understood isn’t it? So, and so the days went by but eventually of course the bombs were dropped on Hiroshima. We always said that saved our lives and we know it saved a lot of other lives as well. And, and the next thing within a week we were on the, we were on the train back up to New York and then sent across back to, to England.
IL: So, in America were your, were your instructors RAF instructors or were they American instructors?
KM: No. There was a minimum staff of, who lived the life of Riley we believe. Mainly off camp. Well, it’s an obvious thing for them but the instructors were civilians. They were all civilians.
IL: Oh right. So they were American civilians.
KM: They were American civilians.
IL: Ok.
KM: And mine was number 5 British Flying Training School. So BFTS. There were six altogether. The original scheme was called the Arnold Scheme but then it was really when, when that was before the Americans came into the war because the guys went over to America as civilians with America being neutral.
IL: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: But when, when the Americans came in after Pearl Harbour they formed this and they had, they had six places. Six places. They were always separating us. Whenever there was a move in the training we were split up because they didn’t want us to form any emotional contact between us. And Johnnie, who was from the, who was Spanish, I met him at Durham he went to Miami in Oklahoma state. You know.
IL: Right.
KM: He did his training there. But there were six of them. Arizona was another one. But there were six. So that explains that about the instructors.
IL: Right. So there were just, so but, and was it just RAF people who were being trained there?
KM: Yeah. Yeah. Just RAF. They weren’t training American ones. No. There were thousands of guys that were trained. When we were in Florida nobody knew the war was going to finish like it was and there was rumours that we would go on to other types of American aircraft out there and then finally go out to the Pacific. But I’m glad it never happened. It’s an obvious one, isn’t it? But on returning to England there was loads of operational people. They didn’t want people. But some of, some of our guys they were connected with military families and wanted to make a career. And I remember one of them was called Neame. He was at Durham. I knew him at Durham. And his father was a general. His father was the only general ever to be captured by the Germans in North Africa. So he went on. He would go to Cranwell then because of being a military aspect. I remember Neame in particular. And later in life, many years afterwards, twenty or thirty years afterwards there was some pictures of Mount Everest in the Daily Express. And he’d been out in India with his Spitfire and he’d flown over Mount Everest and just to prove it because you weren’t supposed to do it. Just a story. And it was a question of waiting to be demobbed and I I decided that when I went that I would make a life in Civilian Street which I did of course. But in between times I got shunted from one station to another and the last one which I was at and I worked in headquarters at RAF Binbrook. They had 9. Four squadrons there 9, 12, 101 and that very famous 617 Squadron. But I didn’t do any flying there. They had Lincoln bombers and it was from there I was demobbed.
[recording paused]
KM: Ok. One, one of the things that I was in charge of I had two German prisoners of war. One was, one was fifty two. All he could think of was getting back to Germany and being a farm labourer. The other one was sixteen and every morning when he reported to me at 9 o’clock in the morning he saluted me in the proper sense of de da de da but he spoke American. He’d been captured when he was fifteen, taken to America and picked up the Americanisms. But every morning he shook his fist at them, ‘We’ll be back. We’re going to be back.’ There was a hundred army guys on RAF Binbrook in that sense. But working in the headquarters I would eventually be in charge of air publications and diagrams and all the stationery and all the forms. A lot of forms. And it was all to do with the squadrons and that. The engines. All aspects. But of course there was a lot of information that would come through which was connected with intelligence. Material that was being distributed into the squadrons to let them know this and that. And eventually I I was to read quite a lot of stuff that I never, never repeated. Of course, you never did. But from an intelligence point of view you just saw stuff but it didn’t mean anything. It was all gone. You weren’t going to keep it or photograph it. We weren’t, we were never allowed to have cameras in any case. So that’s that.
[recording paused]
IL: We’re back on.
KM: In post war then 5 BFTS used to have reunions and I would go away to those. And it was always to take over a hotel so that, at a weekend a Friday, Saturday and Sunday so that all the men that were there were nothing but RAF pilots of once upon a time. There was no people that hadn’t gone there. They were excited to go and there was a book where all the courses were numbered. We were on the very last course out of, the very last course to take was because, as I say the war had finished in Europe but nevertheless we were sent. They always said they’d spent a lot of money on us. And that was because we were University Air Squadron people. Actually I think they got us cheap. But in that sense. And there was a directory with the names of people in that were known of. And the last one that was printed was in 2005. It’s been disbanded since along the way. But then, but my name and there’s only nine of us on that one that were still around and known about. That doesn’t mean to say everybody did get killed. Whatever happened. And Peter Greenwood is one of those who was at Oxford where he used to know this Welsh chap who eventually became Richard Burton. And he said, ‘Richard Burton,’ he said, ‘He only did three things.’ He said, ‘He drank, read poetry,’ because he was doing arts, ‘And he chased skirts.’ Girls. And eventually of course he went to Canada to train as a navigator did this Welsh chap. But later in life he changed his name to Richard Burton and he married Elizabeth Taylor and became very famous. And if ever I got the opportunity to see him in uniform in a film he’d always taken the part of an officer because he was always dressed an officer and he’d been trained as an officer and it was just natural to see him as Richard Burton. But, and I met him once or twice at Heaton Park because he was always retained there to play, play rugby. But that’s Richard Burton. Whatever. But Peter Greenwood, we’ve kept in touch all these years. And we talk to, normally every week, every week we talk for half an hour or an hour. We’re always reminiscing. We’ve always got things to talk about. He lives in Halifax. And of course we have met occasionally as well. So, it’s marvellous in fact to have such a friend. And his birthday is on the 2nd of February. Mine is on the 1st which is very recent. According to this it’s now the 8th of February. And I always pull his leg and say we’re the senior man.
[recording paused]
KM: We were really, it was snowed in. It was a terrible wet winter.
IL: Was this at Full Sutton?
KM: Full Sutton. Up there near York. East of York. And we were told the whole place was frozen up. There was no running water except at the camp cookhouse. And we enjoyed going in there to keep warm occasionally. But the WAAFs, they were putting on more cream and powder because they weren’t allowed to wash either. We were told not to, not to melt ice or snow because they said you could get possibly meningitis through this. So I remember going into York and going to the public baths there. I’d never heard of public baths at that point in time. But, but the Nissen huts were very cold. They were cold. Nobody complained but one has to imagine twenty beds in there. And one night one of the chaps started coughing and sneezing and nineteen other voices said, ‘Die, you bugger’ [laughs]
[recording paused]
KM: And then at lunchtime we were only too pleased to have food, I remember we could buy newspapers. Well, some of us would buy The Express. The Express Record and The Express crossword but some of the guys they used to buy The Times. And they could do them in half an hour. That was the sort of standard. That was the standard of education and culturalisation that we’d all been through. At that time they were chosen to do this particular job and be selected to go into University Air Squadrons. Yeah.
[recording paused]
IL: So after the war.
KM: Well, father was in horticulture and agriculture and for a short time I helped him but eventually I decided that I didn’t want to be connected with the land in that sense at all. I always felt academic. And so I applied to go back to university and I was accepted. And what’s interesting about this as I say I got in to BSc when I was there and, but I’d actually left. Left and I’d achieved all I wanted and went to help my father in his business in whatever before going on to the, to the university. I was still not quite at the age of, to go in. I’d been accepted of course and got, seventeen I’ve mentioned that. And then when I, when I applied I was accepted straight away I’ve still got the letters. Professor Wager and the master. Lieutenant Colonel MacFarland Greave was the master of University College at the time. And they said, ‘Yeah, start in October.’ Now this is addressed to me in the air force by which time I was a corporal. And isn’t it bloody marvellous? To be, to take the rank of corporal. Anyway, and when I applied for the grant because people got grants. My other two pals had. Johnnie who became a doctor later and Malcolm who became vice chancellor they’d stayed on. They’d stayed on at school and left, left grammar school to go straight to Durham. I hadn’t done. And I still have the letter. I still have the letter to say I didn’t qualify because it said my education had not been interrupted by the war. Well, that, that just about killed me. To say I couldn’t get a grant. And I asked my father. I said they want me and when I think about them I would be there with Malcolm doing exactly what I wanted because I wanted to do geology. And I said, to think I had done all of that. I qualified to go to Cambridge. They said my education hadn’t been interrupted by the war and I couldn’t have a grant. And I tried through my MP to try to get this alteration changed and I still retain that letter to me and I’ll show the interviewer that to show the, to prove that point. So I didn’t go back there. So what I decided to do was to join the [pause] I saw the most successful local man I knew. He was in all sorts of businesses. And he said other than three daughters if he’d had a son he would have put him in the petroleum world. The oil world. We’re going back quite a long time now. So he said, ‘I suggest that.’ He said, ‘There’s a company starting up called Petrofina. They’re a Belgian company because,’ he said, ‘I’m taking all my money out of coal and other things and,’ he said, ‘I’m putting it into oil.’ He said, he left it up to me to get in touch with Petrofina. I rang Petrofina in London. I said, ‘I’d like to come and work for you. Join you. You’re starting up,’ because at that time there were no brands. There was no brands of Shell, Esso, Mobil gas — any of them. It was still all pooled petrol. The government was still running the job etcetera. So I, and they said, ‘When can you come to see us?’ I said, ‘Well. Tomorrow.’ So the next day I was down in London and within an hour they said, ‘Right. You can be with us. Six months’ probation. You’ll be up north. And your place will be at a place called Gunness. That’s the regional office that’s been chosen. And you join them up there.’ Which I did. Bought a brand new car to travel from Barton on Humber to travel the twenty miles to work every day. And within, I did my six month probation and I was to be in marketing etcetera and learning all about transport. All aspects of at that level. And by the time I was thirty four I was a senior staff manager in the company and even today, even today — I left them. I stayed with them until my daughter was going of age to go to university. She went to a place in Leeds for a start. She was doing a pre, a pre-university thing and then she went and did three years down at Cheltenham. And she got a degree in fashion design and art. And that’s what my Sue did. I used to go and see her programmes of the materials that she made on the catwalks in London. Doing all of this. Susan was eventually to marry. Her father in law was a wing commander and a fighter pilot in the Battle of Britain. A sergeant. But any way that’s by the way and then went to live in a Cayman Islands. But when my Sue decided to go I thought I’ll go back to university. So I asked the company could I take a three year sabbatical? They agreed. They said, ‘Good idea. Do a law degree and it’ll help us as well.’ But when I’d done the law degree and it was the easiest thing I ever did, at Hull and in fact I did two degrees at once. I did, I did anthropology and law. I did two and I got a 2:2 in both. And, and that’s what, and my daughter and I passed out at the same time. Her elsewhere of course and whatever. So I didn’t go back there. I got in touch with the Law Society and what with my experience of life I said could I, could I practice as a consultant in family law because that’s what I wanted to particularly major in. And they said yes, carry on which is what I’ve always done ever since. And today they’re even they’re still paying me at Petrofina because I was a superannuated person. I made them a great deal of money. I made them millions. I built up a chain of service stations. Buying land and choosing managers and tenants for them. Oh yes I was right there. I was right there with them and so they’re still paying me.
[recording paused]
IL: I can turn it back on.
KM: It was whilst I must pay tribute to all the men that I ever met in the Royal Air Force. Whether they were ground staff or aircrew. And all, all the guys my colleague with which I flew and I was so proud to be with them. So I I I can pay great tribute to them. But I do wish to mention about my two friends. Johnnie Boyd who came from Spain and Barnard Castle and then came on and eventually became a doctor in psychology. A marvellous man out there. Starting something out there for them. And in particular Malcolm Brown who came from Redcar Grammar. I met him at Durham and eventually he became the number one geologist really of this country. And he was knighted so that his full title was Professor Sir George Malcolm Brown. Right from being, knowing him at eighteen and he was employed well not employed but when, when Buzz Aldrin and Armstrong were going to go to the moon NASA was [pause] had Malcolm to lecture them on what they were to look for in moon rocks. And he was the only one, considering that Malcolm went from being eighteen and knowing him he was the one, the only scientist, British scientist given moondust or moon rocks. And of course he distributed them amongst other places to examine. But he found amongst his own materials a mineral that was not known on earth. And it could have been called Brownite because that was after his name but he didn’t. He called it Tranquilite because that was where these guys landed. And they called it Tranquilite. That’s how modest he was. But, but to look him up on the computers and look him up to see all about him there’s pages and pages and pages. He’s a fellow of everything throughout the world. Marvellous to have known him. And he was such a modest man. Always was. They said he was a bit diffident but I understand that because I knew him. We used to go drinking in The Three Tuns at Durham. My goodness on a Saturday night it was the only time after dinner at night that we ever got out really. Well, we used, and it had seven bars down there in The Three Tuns and we went through all seven having a half or whatever it was. And the dance hall at the end of it by which time I was useless for anything. But that was Malcolm who became Professor Sir George Malcolm Brown.
IL: And he became Chancellor of Durham University.
KM: Chancellor of Durham University.
IL: Vice Chancellor sorry.
KM: Yeah. Vice Chancellor.
IL: Vice Chancellor of Durham. That’s fantastic.
KM: And another thing, may I have this?
IL: It’s still going.
KM: One of the things that we did at Durham. They were full days. Completely full days. We thoroughly enjoyed it. The guy that used to take us for parades and was a DLI man. Durham Light Infantry. A warrant officer. We never forgot Gray. And he prepared us for these rough guys that we, the [unclear] guys eventually down at Torquay. But one of the things that would happen we were allocated that when the air raid sirens went I was one of those that went to do fire watching on the cathedral in the dark. I mean the buzzers gone and no matter what time of day it was up there in the north transept amongst the pigeons trying to save my country’s cathedrals. So we did all sorts of things apart from that. The day, and the night before we left Durham, this is very interesting, Durham, Durham Council invited us to the little town hall in the centre of Durham which is like a museum in itself because the Durham Light Infantry in its army days went back years and years. With all sorts of uniforms. And they gave us a party. They invited all the local belles, all the belles, all the belles of Durham to be there. It was, it was like, it was like a party. A going away party for us to join the air force. You know. Seeing us off to war literally. We felt like it. But never mind. I could talk. I love Durham and I’ve often been back there. And more recently I went with my, a girl friend and we stayed in the castle. It was all arranged and I slept in the Bishop’s Suite which, which in fact was an old fashioned, fashioned four poster and it was that four poster where, it was an original one where all the judges of England used to sleep in that one because they went there for safety when they were visiting the assizes. But then later after I was at top table at Durham with all the other students and whatever. I went top table with all the profs and that and then later I went into the senior common room where after in the ordinary way when we were there I used to dash in there to play classical records for half an hour. If you could get there first you could have their own choice.
[recording paused]
KM: When I, when I was married and went to Scarborough on holiday being married it was then that I discovered that north of Bridlington there was a plane there flying people for passenger. Little trips around the lighthouse at Flamborough. So I went and I took my wife Phyllis and we went flying. And I remember I took over as well. I remember the pilot. He’d escaped from the Nazis. He was a Norwegian and he’d trained as a navy pilot but here he was staying in England. I never forgot him. When my Sue fourteen years later, fourteen years later I decided that my Susan should fly for the very first time. I drove down to Skegness and, and the office said, it was opposite Butlins and they said, ‘There are three Auster planes out there. Just pick the one you want and one of the pilots will come out to you.’ And when he came it was the same man from fourteen years previous. What a fantastic coincidence because, I said, ‘I know you.’ He said, ‘Where do you know me from?’ I said, ‘I flew with you at Speeton, north of Bridlington.’ He said, ‘I was only there a week.’ It’s absolutely fantastic. Fourteen years between the two. And once again we flew and I was up front and I flew that Auster as well. But from a flying point of view when I went to the university they had in that first week a new intake. People joining all sorts of societies. Whatever they called it. And I found there was a stall there that they were connected with a gliding club at Pocklington on the way to York. So I joined that immediately and eventually was taken because that enabled me to fly again and I’ve been, and I’ve been a member of that gliding club and I still am. From 1975 to now. But whilst I was there at weekends I would take six in the car. With no safety belts I could cram two in the front and two in the back. So I did help out with these kids. I was like a dad to some of them. But along the way we had a flying club at, on, on Humberside and, but they had to close it down because Bristows, the helicopter people they wanted the property. But that was a very interesting time flying Cessnas and goodness knows what there as a member of a private flying club there. I also used to fly with a man called Croskill and pre-war he’d trained as a pilot. Got his wings in 1935. His father was a wing commander. When the war started he was made a captain in the army. An army captain. And he, and he joined the secret service. And what he did was fly Lysanders into France during the, to take people to the Resistance backwards and forwards. But afterwards Roy and I became, that’s how I came to know him. I often used to fly with him because he was a chief flying instructor at Paull which gave me an opportunity once again when I was at the university. This is how I met him. And again at Humberside. So I’ve always had a big connection with, with Humberside. There was also at Humberside an ex-Wellington bomber pilot who I came to know and he passed on but I’d done, over the years I just paid to take a plane up. Always with one of their people because I’d not passed out on some of those planes. But that, but what that has led to is that I was invited on to be, I was collected by taxi from Hornsea to to spend the day when the Canadian Lancaster came. It had flown into Coningsby from Canada. That’s an RAF station. But on this day it was coming into Kirmington. Or Humberside Airport. And I met the crew. I didn’t fly in it but I had lunch with the crew and it was just marvellous to climb back inside that Lancaster. And of recent times I’ve had sent to me a CVD, it’s a record.
IL: Yeah.
KM: That can be put on a piece of equipment and I only received it and I’m on it. It’s showing various things from the start in Canada and then back in Humberside and elsewhere. And Coningsby. And it’s just marvellous. And it lasts eighty minutes and I’ve only seen it this last fortnight. It was sent to me. And very kind of them. I think it was sent because of my birthday. Whatever. By the way on the 18th at Humberside there was a girl, a lady from the Royal Mint and she was interviewing other veterans down there to what they would like to see on the back of a new 50p coin. And eventually I was sent one from the Mint. That came from wherever it came. Wales I think. And it shows on the reverse side what looked like what represents German aeroplanes coming. Spitfires on the ground waiting and the backs of three fighter pilots dashing off. And that’s a, that’s a memorial of the seventy fifth, seventy fifth anniversary of the Battle of Britain. When I was invited once again to go to Humberside on the 13th of August in 2015. The year following the Canadian one to meet up with the pilots and sit in on the briefing. I just felt like nineteen and twenty and twenty one again. It was so wonderful and marvellous. And I’ve got quite a number of momentoes from that. So and that, then on my birthday recently I had two cards from there. One from the lady, the personal assistant who I only saw twice. On the first occasion, second occasion when she sent me a card with love and kisses on the bottom. But the other one, was another card was “From all your friends at Humberside International Airport.” And I met, and I met on both occasions they called him Richard. Richard Lake. He’s the boss down there of Eastern Airways and he saw me on every occasion etcetera and he owns two Spitfires and they’re worth a couple of million quid. Very interesting. I do know a few people in the flying world. As far as flying’s concerned and before the terrorist position came in whenever I flew abroad I’d always hand the letter in which would have to be handed to the captain. And they would always send for me to sit up at the front with them because of them being, they could be RAF themselves as well.
IL: Yeah.
KM: And on one occasion, here’s an interesting thing I went to Rome and on a, on a flip flight just to transfer an aircraft I can make another trip to Sardinia, which was my destination. I was going there on business and I sat up there with the Italian pilots. What’s interesting about that I speak Italian so I was able to talk. It was marvellous really. To be able to get up to the front of aircraft. That was out of, out of Heathrow. A letter went in there and I sat at the rear. An American sat next to me. Got flying. And at the appointed time on the threshold the chief steward came and said, ‘You’re wanted on the flight deck, sir’ and so I went up the front, and the American and I was up there for four hours. At that time there were two pilots, a flight engineer and I sat behind and did all the take off with them and they said they would send for me when they were going to do, land in Seattle. But before that I got back this American had been drinking. He said, ‘That was a rotten take off.’ I said, ‘I’ve got news for you. I’m going to do the landing.’ Because I knew I was going to be, I was going to be up the front. And it came to that point in time we’d flown over Greenland and Northern Canada and the captain came on, ‘Everybody fasten their safety belts,’ and at the same moment in time as I say I was at the rear the chief steward, the man came and said, ‘There’s an emergency, sir. You’re wanted on the flight deck.’ I couldn’t believe this. So I went up the front, ‘Where the hell’s he going?’ Everybody fastened all their seatbelts. To find out they were running short of fuel. At that time they were only buying enough fuel with a margin but they’d met a, met this S shaped sign shaped current of air and what — it has a name. At such a speed that it reduced the speed over the ground so they were using more fuel than necessary. So they decided to land in Calgary. And so that’s what happened. And I went through all the methods of what they were doing up the front and finally landed. And I remember this big circle and as we came in on the threshold the second said to the captain who was an ex-squadron leader, originally from the air force, he said, ‘I bet there’s a change of wind direction on the threshold.’ He said, ‘I’m ready for it.’ And at two hundred feet the plane crabbed because the change in wind direction. And he just, he just moved it over to the port side and we were down. And that was after what? Five or six hours flying. They’re right on the ball these guys. But when I wanted to continue to Seattle they had a new crew in but, because the hours had been taken up. So, but the new crew they were youngish. They didn’t want to know me. So I went back to this American and he still believes I did the bloody landing.
[recording paused]
IL: Interview with Ken Marshall. Just a little bit of extra.
KM: Talk now?
IL: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. Before I went away from home there was a Canadian pilot called Screwball Beurling who learned to fly in Canada when he was very young and the Canadian Air Force wouldn’t have him. So he came to England on a convoy. Got trained. Sent back to Canada to train as a pilot. Returned to England and became a Spitfire pilot. And he was my hero. I have a photograph of him. But later in life I was flying Alitalia to Rome and there was a woman next to me. She was a lady jeweless and when we were circling over Rome she said did I know Screwball Beurling? I said, ‘Screwball Beurling,’ I said, ‘He was my hero.’ ‘Not bloody likely with me,’ she said, ‘He killed my husband.’ I said, ‘How do you mean?’ Well, she said, ‘Well down there at Rome,’ she said, ‘He was, he was flying planes to Israel and he crashed on the take off.’ And I couldn’t believe it. That up there at fifteen thousand feet she should bring up this name of a person that I’d known about. But in actual fact it was always said that his plane was sabotaged. This was after the war of course. But quite an interesting little story.
IL: Absolutely.
KM: But he was the highest scoring. He wouldn’t obey orders back in England so they sent him to Malta to fly and he was in the fiercest battles in Malta and he shot down almost more planes than anybody else. But that was Screwball Beurling and he was my hero.
IL: Absolutely.
KM: Flying over and she said did I know and I said, ‘Yes, he’s my —'
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Ken Marshall
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Ian Locker
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-02-08
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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AMarshallKW160208
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Pending review
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00:57:42 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Ken Marshall, grew up in Barton on Humber and enrolled with the ATC before joining the University Air Squadron at Durham University. On one occasion he saw an aircraft on fire at RAF Elsham Wolds and although the crew was rescued it was a reminder of the risks involved in operational flying. He completed his flying training at 5 BFTS in Florida.
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
Florida
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1943
5 BFTS
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
bombing up
British Flying Training School Program
crash
Halifax
memorial
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Full Sutton
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Torquay
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1068/11524/APeelE161018.2.mp3
eacf4f2401a4e09fb664da5db414fdf1
Dublin Core
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Title
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Peel, Eric
E Peel
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Eric Peel (b. 1916, 1495430 Royal Air Force). He served as ground personnel during the war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-18
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Peel, E
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Julian Maslin. The interviewee is Mr Eric Peel and the interview is taking place in Mr Peel’s home near Chester on the 18th of October 2016. Eric, could I ask you please to tell us a little bit about your life when you were at school, your family background and so forth.
EP: I went to a school in Liverpool called Granby Street School which was a council school. I left school at fourteen. My family, my father was self-employed. He was a tailor. During his time he ran three shops. I’d, as I say left school at fourteen. My father had paid a sum of money for me to be trained on the Liverpool Cotton Exchange. And it was on the Liverpool Cotton Exchange that I worked until — in the meantime the war had been declared. 1939. Which I would have been then seventeen. And I was always interested in aircraft because my grandparents lived not very far from Mildenhall where the England to Australia Air Race started from. And I had been taken there where we could speak to the Meteorological people about the weather which was quite an experience for a boy. And then at Liverpool Speke Airport was founded. And as a twelve year old I can remember walking there to see the opening of Speke Airport when the RAF came in with their flights of Hawker Hinds and all those aircraft. Then of course the war was going on and things were happening in the Cotton Exchange which wouldn’t have happened in peacetime. And one of the partners there was an officer of the Territorial Army and certainly wanted me to join the Liverpool Regiment which was a tank regiment. My father said, ‘Oh no you’re not. You’re not going in tanks.’ And of course I had this interest in aircraft and I was walking through and I saw an advertisement, a recruitment office actually, saying how about joining the RAF. Well that was, oh great. And so I went inside and came out having joined up in the RAF VR — the Voluntary Reserve. And they told me I’d just have to wait until the right time came. And I was actually nineteen when the, I actually got called up in to the RAF. And from there, the day I was called up I was, I went to Padgate and there at Padgate they gave me a number and a uniform. And after a few days off I went to Blackpool. And in Blackpool I had all the injections and those sort of things. But when I first enlisted I thought I was going to be an air gunner. And that’s what I wanted to be. I didn’t. Actually I was glad I was never an air gunner [laughs] but there we are. But I was told that because I wore glasses that I couldn’t be aircrew. And so they said, ‘But you’d do plenty of flying if you became an armourer.’ And so that was what I became. An armourer in the RAF.
JM: Could we just go back a bit because from what you’ve said you must have been growing up in Liverpool during the Liverpool Blitz.
EP: The beginning of the Liverpool Blitz.
JM: Do you have any memories of those Blitz days?
EP: Yes. I can remember as, I can remember I had to do a couple of nights a week on fire watch duty in the office on the Liverpool Exchange. And also I can remember going home and in the back of the shop where we lived there was an air raid shelter. One of the brick built air raid shelters which covered not only our family but members of the other shops around about. And we all went in there and I can hear the bomb, we could hear the bombs going off. I saw the big Customs House in Liverpool burned out and we’d hear shrapnel coming down from the anti-aircraft fire. And most of the damage that I saw in those early days was around the dock area. Although we had a stray bomb in a street not very far from us. It must have been a small one because it completely took out one house out of a row. You see, and that’s —
JM: Were there casualties?
EP: There weren’t in that house. No. But there were many casualties on Merseyside in those first —
JM: Yes.
EP: But I was in the RAF when they had their major raids.
JM: Right. Right. And would you say that those memories of the Liverpool Blitz did they affect your view as to the assistance that you gave to damaging German cities? Was it in your mind?
EP: They probably did at the time but my thoughts have changed a great, great deal since then.
JM: Well, we’ll come to that later on but I’m just interested to know how you felt at the time.
EP: Well, I can’t really recollect how I did. I mean I, I was eager to do my part that everybody else was doing. Which meant that I must have had a feeling against the enemy you see but I don’t really feel that I had any what I’d say bitterness. I thought I was doing what everybody else was doing.
JM: I think that’s quite a common reaction from the gentlemen that I’ve, I’ve met. I do, Yes. Tell us, can you tell us any more about Padgate? This was a major centre wasn’t it?
EP: Yes. No. No. I can’t — Padgate, yes was a major centre. I know I got off the, the train at Warrington. Not Warrington. Padgate Station, the first station out of Warrington and there, there was a lorry waiting because there was a whole group of people like me with a case and all in our civvies you know. I don’t think I’d been out of shorts very long [laughs] But and then we got corralled into the back of this truck you see and we were all taken there. And when we got there we got the first of the sergeant major. Somebody bawling at us to do this, that and the other, you know, and that.
JM: I was going to ask how you adapted to the rigours of service life.
EP: Well, I grew up in just a very, very short time. I’d been very much protected. I had a loving mother and father and very caring. And I think that, well I really I think I was like any schoolboy really that had just starting up in life. I wasn’t used to people swearing. In fact in the RAF was the first, I can remember this quite clearly the first place I ever heard a woman use a swear word. A swear word. You see. And yes within two or three days I was a different person. But we didn’t stay in Padgate many, only two or three days as I can remember it and we were off to Blackpool, you see.
JM: Which was a major centre for RAF training throughout the war.
EP: That’s right. And I went in there and was there not a long time and I was off to Morecambe.
JM: Right.
EP: And in Morecambe I did my square bashing.
JM: Where did you stay when you were in Morecambe?
EP: In digs. A landlady had about four or five of us in her house. And I can remember she, she was a sergeant major [laughs] Kept us in our place and wasn’t going to have us do this that and the other. And we had to be in by a certain time. And —
JM: And what was the food like?
EP: I suppose it must have been acceptable [laughs] I can’t remember much about that you see. But I can remember in the, I was tall, six foot one. That’s what they listed me as and I was always called out in the square bashing as the marker because of my height.
JM: Yes.
EP: My height you see.
JM: Yes.
EP: And then from the right size you know. And they’d go right —
JM: And the marker was the person who stood at one end of a line or one corner —
EP: That’s right.
JM: Of a square.
EP: Yes. That’s right. And so I always got that you know. I wished I hadn’t, you know. It was always nice, particularly a bit later on when I did my armourer’s training.
JM: Did you find the drill easy to learn?
EP: I think so. I mean I always did what I was told and I don’t think I had much difficulty. I wasn’t very athletic and some of the, the tougher stuff I wasn’t very keen on.
JM: I was going to ask you about that. Did you have to do assault courses and —
EP: Not at there.
JM: No.
EP: I did an assault course later on in the RAF which was on the station defence.
JM: Right.
EP: Yeah.
JM: Right.
EP: But that wasn’t in Bomber Command.
JM: Well, let’s, let’s move on then because at the moment you’re at Morecambe and you’re doing what is really basic training I guess.
EP: That’s right. And that was six weeks. I can remember it being six weeks. And in that, you know we did all the drill movements and elementary rifle drill rather than what I think a soldier might have done. And from there then I went to Weeton which was near Blackpool.
JM: Right.
EP: And there I did armourer guns course.
JM: Right. So by that time you’d already been selected for an armourer.
EP: Yes.
JM: Yes.
EP: What I’d signed up for in those early days in Liverpool.
JM: Right.
EP: yeah. And I did the armourer’s gun course.
JM: This is most interesting. Could you tell us please how that course, how that training took place?
EP: Well, it started by a little bit of engineering work in that we were given a piece of metal and tools and we had to make an adjustable spanner. And I mean I’d never done a thing like that in my life. I was only just learning how to use a pen you see and, and we had to make this tool. And I think that took us about a week. And we were instructed in that. And then we came then to actual guns themselves, in taking them to pieces. But we were started with the old Lewis gun.
JM: Right. Yes.
EP: You see, and, and the Lee Enfield rifles. And I can’t remember the name of the, the revolvers and things like that.
JM: Perhaps a Smith and Wesson.
EP: They could, yes, the good names.
JM: Yes.
EP: Smith and Wesson. That’s it.
JM: Yes. Yeah. Yeah .
EP: Yes. Things like that. And taking them to pieces and cleaning them and putting them together again. Looking for faults in them and all that sort of business. We also learned then things like grenade discharges which went on the end of your rifle, you know and all that sort of business. And there you had to get forty percent to pass out. Sixty percent to become a fitter armourer which was one grade up from an ordinary armourer. But that meant that you had to be in training for another ten weeks after that and I didn’t want that so I turned down the opportunity. Which in later life I regretted because that was the only way you get good promotion. You see. But no and I then having done that course I was then posted to 56 OTU. Operational Training Unit at Sutton Bridge which is in Lincolnshire.
JM: It is.
EP: Yeah. And that was an Operational OTU in Hurricanes. And there I actually worked on the Hurricane aircraft. Loading and reloading both ammunition and the guns you see. And, and having been at Sutton Bridge and then moving about with them a little bit I was sent on a completion course as they called it which was the bombing side of the armourers course where we dealt with bombs and all that goes, that makes up a bomb. And the loading of them in to aircraft and all that sort. And also the, what we called fireworks. The —
JM: Pyrotechnics.
EP: That’s it. That and with things like gun carting and all those things. And I went to Kirkham for that.
JM: Right.
EP: And at Kirkham I was then, I had my first bomber station and that was at 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds.
JM: I wonder, before we go on to that could we just go back to your, your time at Sutton Bridge because I’m interested to know were the Hurricanes and their guns were they easy to maintain? Did you have any regular problems with them?
EP: No. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I mean the guns came out regularly because it was an OTU.
JM: Yes.
EP: On operational charge.
JM: Yes.
EP: But so guns were firing every day so they were coming out every day and being cleaned every day. We were getting, we were mounting, the gun mounts were wearing. Of course that brought riggers in and working on that sort of thing. So guns were jumping the mounts and firing through their own wings.
JM: Yeah.
EP: You see and —
JM: I wondered because I associate Sutton Bridge with armament school. I wondered whether the guns were using incendiary rounds for marking and whether they actually affected the barrels of the guns.
EP: They were. Yes. There were incendiary bullets used in them because of — but we, we did fire on drogues.
JM: Right.
EP: And we did have a flight of Lysanders there that towed the drogues.
JM: Right. And I believe they painted the bullets so that when they went in —
EP: The bullets were dipped.
JM: Dipped.
EP: Yeah. They had a tray of paint and they coiled them and just —
JM: Oh I see —
EP: Dipped them in like that but —
JM: I often wondered about that. I imagined armourers painting the tip of each bullet but they just dipped it in.
EP: No. No. No. No. No. They just had a tray with usually red paint as I can remember it.
JM: Yes.
EP: Like that.
JM: Yeah.
EP: And as I say they drove all these up and just home, and you know, like that.
JM: And did you ever discuss it with the pilots there? Did they —
EP: No. No. No.
JM: You never saw them.
EP: No. With the Hurricane, in the Hurricane it was better because they were men who were coming to the end of their training. They were going straight from there to operational squadrons. And also we had the pilots who had been in the Battle of Britain and I actually flew with one that wore a leather mask his face had been so badly damaged. But he was flying again. And I can remember his name was Flight Lieutenant Gray and he, I was working on a, or had just worked on a Hurricane along with, I mean there were lots of us doing it. Don’t think it’s me. It’s a gang of us doing all this. And he just happened, said, ‘Do you want a flight boy?’ And he took me up in a Miles Master Mark 1 which had a Kestrel engine in it. Not the American engine. And that was my first aerial flight.
JM: To fly with a pilot with that background that must have stayed with you.
EP: Yes. And I never saw him again.
JM: Really.
EP: Never saw him again. He just, just, why he just put his hand on my shoulder, you know and I went in the back seat with him. I flew with Tiger Moths again but always in the front seat of a Tiger Moth.
JM: Right. Right. But fascinating. Now, can we go on now to the bombing aspect? Tell us please about the training you received in bombs and munitions.
EP: Well, we were, we first of all we were told the, what the bomb was made up of. I can’t remember now all the chemical names that went into it. And then we were told what exploded the bomb. Where we had the [pause] oh my mind’s gone. The thing that ignites it which was a tube of — well it was rather like a little pillbox and it had a tube and in the tube was the —
JM: Be an acid?
EP: The word would come to me. No. I can’t remember now. But yeah, the fulminated mercury. This was the, the, would be, go inside the bomb. Could either go in the nose or the tail. And we were trained on all that sort of business you see. We didn’t, didn’t actually handle it there. But what we did have was an all brass tool which was exactly the same as this thing that you ignited the bomb with. And every bomb, every bomb you had to put that in first because where they’d been manufactured they’d be greased and they could build up what was like very coarse Vaseline. And this was to protect them. But you had to get that out because if I mean you would get it so as it needed cleaning but if it hadn’t this fulminated mercury would have exploded in there. But if you put pressure on it.
JM: Right.
EP: You see and, and so that had to be done, and they’d, they’d teach, taught us how to do that. Then how to actually load it and then how to fix the tail. And then how that was attached the bomb carrier. The bomb carrier went in to the aircraft. And the only aircraft I ever worked on there was a Hampden. They never had a Wellington or a Lancaster in that course. And there, having trained with all that and a little bit on the pyrotechnics you went out to the squadron. And my first squadron was 103 Elsham Wolds.
JM: And when was it you arrived there?
EP: It must have been the winter of ’42 ’43. Yeah. But I wasn’t at Elsham Wolds very long before 3 flights — there weren’t many squadrons had three flights but 103 Squadron had three flights and we were moved to Kirmington. And Kirmington, when they moved they formed 166 Squadron of — 166 Squadron had been Wellingtons and the Lancasters of 3 Flight of C flight of 103 went there to form 166 Squadron then. And I went with it. But didn’t go with the aircraft. When I got there I was put in the bomb dump. And it was in the bomb dump I spent all my days after that. We’d sneak a go at the aircraft if we could but I mean we were always then — and all this business you see of what I didn’t say about the training we also there did the incendiary bombs.
JM: I was going to ask.
EP: And there, how they were packed and how we would pack them into containers and how they’d go into the bomb carriers as the bombs had done. And so we, we did incendiaries there.
JM: Could you just describe the incendiary bombs?
EP: If I [pause] yes. I would say they were eighteen inches long or something like that. Twelve — eighteen inches long. If my memory’s right they were eight and a half pounds in weight. And I think we had forty in a container.
JM: So they were like gigantic candles.
EP: That’s right. Is that, is that is that about eighteen inches? They were about like that. And like this but they weren’t round. They were — eights. Eights.
JM: Hexagonal.
EP: Is that, is that eight? [laughs] I don’t know. They were like that so one would pack against the other close up, you see, like that. And I think, I might be wrong here but I think there were forty in a container and I know that during my time working with them they were increased to a bigger size and a half. If they were that deep they went up and the container, we got bigger containers. So we were dropping more of them. And I spent a lot, I would say I spent two thirds of my time in bomb dumps on incendiaries. Loading and getting them ready for the aircraft.
JM: How were the incendiaries detonated?
EP: On impact.
JM: Right.
EP: Yeah. Because I have seen them go off where we are but they were also and these were introduced more I think in my time explosive incendiaries which did have an explosion in them but the explosion was ignited by the primitive compact. You see. Like that. That’s as I remember them now. I mean you’re drawing on things I’ve forgotten years ago.
JM: You’re doing well.
EP: Wanted. Wanted to forget as well.
JM: I’m sure.
EP: And, but as I say about, I would think three quarters of my Bomber Command bomb dump work was with the incendiaries. Packing and getting those. And as you said how did they go off? The bomb carriers we had weren’t always in perfect condition and if you turned them over you get one of those open on the floor. But fortunately that coming from eighteen thousand feet is a bit different from coming from five feet you see. Or bits like that. They were, [pause] they — I never knew one to go off having a container like that. I did know one go off to blow a man’s arm off but that was his own fault.
JM: Why do you say that?
EP: Because they were, the explosive part would break and they were, we were sitting out there in the — operations had either finished or weren’t on and there was one of these broken ones and he put the end of his cigarette light and it just went up. And I can remember I hadn’t been there very long. That was at Elsham Wolds. I hadn’t been there very long and it made me feel I had to go outside and be sick, and. Yeah. And like that. So they were very destructive.
JM: You sometimes see photographs of weapons, bombs being taken out to an aircraft and somebody has written something in chalk. Did that actually happen?
EP: Oh yes. Probably done it myself because other people were doing it.
JM: And what sort of things were written on the bomb?
EP: Nasty things. You know. And people would write a sort of from their girlfriends or something like that, you see. This is what you’d get in a, you know, on a —
JM: So there was a sense of revenge.
EP: Oh yes. There was there. Oh yes. That was quite common. I mean as I say the, the big, the thousand pounders and the five hundred pounders I had a, I’d say a third of my bombing was with them. And on those you that’s where you’d get them. Some of them had been written on them where they had been manufactured. I mean they’d come with it on. You see most of it that was done in the squadron was done with chalk. But you would get it done with paint. And that would be some that had come in, you see. And you’d also get messages on the tails done with some sort of pen or something of that sort. You know. But there we are.
JM: So, you, you were at Kirmington with 166.
EP: At Kirmington. Yes.
JM: And tell us a little bit about life at Kirmington. What was your accommodation like and when you were off duty what did you do?
EP: Don’t know. I don’t know. I know we drove out on our bikes if we got a standoff. Go out on our bikes to Grimsby. I can remember going like that. Of course that was another thing, the bike. We had bikes to go from our digs because we weren’t on the airfield. We didn’t live on the airfield. We lived in Nissen huts. Well, I would say quite a mile or so away from the airfield. But you’d go out on your bike and when you went to get your bike again it had been pinched.
JM: So you pinched somebody else’s then.
EP: Well that’s what went on.
JM: Yes. Yes.
EP: That’s what went on.
JM: ‘Cause Lincolnshire had quite a reputation for being a bleak place to serve. Was that your experience?
EP: It was bleak. Oh yes. And it were a place where the east wind and the snow could come down. And I mean they could be very, very hard and very, very cold. Yeah. And I spent quite a long time there. Yes.
JM: And what contact did you have, again with the Lancasters and the crews?
EP: There we didn’t have very much contact at all with the crews. We’d go along to see them taking off and in [pause] I think it would be Kirmington the entrance to the bomb dump, we had a big wooden hut and in there we had a fire and things there. And that’s where if we had a sergeant that’s where he’d spend his time. He’d walk around and see we were doing our stuff or if we were in a muddle he’d come and sort things out. Some of them were very good. Excellent. But we’d have in the, the fusing sheds we’d have, well I can only remember one corporal but a senior LAC would be there you see. And particularly in the fusing the time I spent in fusing you know you always had somebody there to see that you weren’t, you couldn’t be careless.
JM: No. You had to be very strict I imagine.
EP: Yes. We were. Very strict. And the detonators. Not fuses. The detonators. It’s just come to me. That’s right. And, and there they came. That was another job we had in the bomb dump was to examine all these things. They were, when the stocks came in you — that was set at a little building set apart which was for things like the detonators and those sort of things. And those detonators had to be handled very, very carefully. And we had a pair of tweezers but instead of the points going the other way because on the rim of this pill box which was in the detonator you put them in. They were made of brass. You couldn’t have anything that could had a spark in it. And your screwdrivers and everything else were brass. But you would put them in and that’s the way you would hold your detonator. Put it like that and you’d hold the thing, that would be and that’s how you put it into the back of the bomb you see. And then you had your pistol. I don’t know whether — yeah. They had the pistol, and amongst the pistols we had the straightforward ones but we had the time delay and we had the anti-handling pistols. There’s a story of an anti-handling pistol. Shall I tell you that?
JM: We ought to make it clear that a pistol isn’t a gun.
EP: No.
JM: It’s a component of the fuse.
EP: No. The pistol. The pistol is what fires the bomb. And it screws, and can screw in the nose of the bomb although very very seldom. In 1 Group and 3 Group it was nearly always in the back of the bomb. And that screws in the back. You’ve, you’ve put your detonator in. Then you screw that in. Then the tail goes in the end and in the tail there’s a pair of fingers which join up with the fingers which are in the back of the — and the wind, going down spins the firing needle right out. So when it hits the ground it goes forward and that hits the cap on the back of the detonator which fires the, the fulminated mercury which fires the bomb.
JM: That’s very clear. Thank you.
EP: Yeah.
JM: So tell us the story that you were going to.
EP: Yes. Well, you would get what were known as hang-ups and I was called one time by the sergeant, ‘Peel, come with me.’ And there’d been a hang up come back with an anti-handling device on it. So an anti-handling device you’d never touch. It was the only one I ever had any real sort of, real knowledge of. Anyway, we went out to this aircraft where this anti-handling, where this bomb was. A five hundred pounder. And it had been hung up in the aircraft. When the bomb doors opened it fell and it was on the ground you see. The aircraft was moved away from it and he said, ‘Come on. We’ve got to get rid of this,’ and he’d already got a hole, rather like a saucer. Not very big you see. And he said I want you to pack this — ’ and he had a, these days it would be a plastic bag but we had a sack if you like of gun cotton in it. And he had a discharger and a coil of cable. And anyway he’d arranged for this tractor and a trailer and between us we got, the three of us, we got this on the back of the bomb carrier. A bomb carrier. Not a trailer. And took it up to this hole that they had dug which was in the extreme part of the airfield. And we then rolled it off the carrier, rolled it down in to the pit. He sent me to pack it around with this gun cotton. And packed it all around the tail area you see where this anti-handling pistol was. Oh and the bomb and which it was there. And when we packed that around he then came and when he — I’d never done it before. I mean he said he couldn’t do it. He didn’t know how to do it. Nor did I. But he made this, and said, ‘Well, you do it.’ So I did it in the way we’d been told in training. Or as I remembered it being told in training. And he came and gave me the ends of the cable to put on the detonator. And then both of us went back and got down on the ground quite a long, long way from where it was. And he had the discharger and blew the thing up.
JM: I bet it went with a very big bang.
EP: It went with a very big bang [laughs] even though it was a five hundred pounder we could feel a tremble. Yeah. But that was my experience of an anti-handling device.
JM: Fascinating story.
EP: Yeah.
JM: Let’s have a pause there.
[recording paused]
JM: Eric, I must ask you were you ever scared?
EP: Yes. I was scared many times. I don’t think I was scared with the job I was doing. But I can remember laying, lying at night in bed when we’d finished duty and a Lancaster coming over and crashing on some other hut quite near to us. And I can remember being terrified that night. And I remember praying, ‘Oh Lord, get me out of this.’ I really was frightened that night because I could hear the screaming of the people. Not only the aircraft crew but the people in the hut. And if I remember rightly there were women involved as well. But that was nasty. And yes [pause] scared. It’s hard to say. I don’t know whether frightened and scared are the same. I was sometimes frightened of the orders that came and the people that gave them. Frightened that I might be on jankers for something or other. But I think yes I was scared. Many times. We’d get, we’d get incidents happen and I can’t really put my finger on them and say they were. I can tell you something which is in the RAF. Just a little while after this I’m talking about three of us in the bomb dump. We didn’t know at the time but three of us were called in to the armament office which was in headquarters on the station. Told to pack up and go. And we had to. We had to go, and we didn’t know what it meant. And anyway we had to just go back to the billet, get our kit, go to the station headquarters, get our pass and I went to RAF Locking. A hospital in, well Weston Super Mare. As I got to the station I met another one. One of my buddies. He’d been done the same. Going to RAF Hospital Ely. And why I can remember, I wanted to go to Ely because that was near my grandmother’s house in Suffolk you see. But he was there. And he told me that the third one had got, he hadn’t seen the third one had got a similar thing. And he, I don’t think he knew where he’d been sent to. And I went to Locking. When we got there they weren’t very pleased to have us there. It was the hospital and the officer commanding that station wasn’t very happy with us, with people like me being sent which was a rehabilitation. And there I was put in the station armoury who had a virtually retired flight sergeant. Lovely old man. Could well have been my grandfather. And a lady armament assistant. And I went as the armourer there. And on the station they had three sandbagged gun emplacement. And that was all I did for three months. Walked around these three sandbagged emplacements. Looked after this flight sergeant. Half a dozen or maybe more than that sten guns which were on the station. And that was all. And why I did that I don’t know. But while I was there a Stirling carrying a glider had to cast off the glider and the glider smashed in to the ground and it had twenty odd troops on board. Royal Engineers. And they were all killed. And on this Sunday afternoon it was going to the bridge over —
JM: Arnhem.
EP: Arnhem. Going to Arnhem. And on this Sunday afternoon I was called out. They brought all the bodies into Locking. And it was an old store. An old Nissen store and they were all laid out in that. And a RAF regiment had just started and the RAF regiment was, a RAF regiment officer, flight lieutenant. Hotel owner of the Isle of Man was there. And he, he called me and I was in the, in the billet. And he called me and he said that, ‘They’ve got a job for you.’ And he went with me and he’d got somebody, he’d got another sergeant from, I think a medic sergeant. And we had to go through because they were carrying all ammunition of various sorts. Hand grenades, stuff for blowing up bridges and they were Royal Engineers and had to go through all these bodies and there were bits of bodies and bodies with no heads. And I don’t want to go on really but it’s, that’s something that stuck with me all these years. And, but we had to get that before the people who were going to put the bodies in coffins could do it you see because there were all these explosives and they had to come out. And I will say that this flight lieutenant, he was lovely. He was like a father figure. And the sergeant was. And I can’t remember much about him but, but that was one of the worst incidents in my RAF career.
JM: You’ve told it with great sensitivity and respect. If something like that happened today people doing your job would have been offered counselling. Were you offered anything of that sort?
EP: No [laughs] No. And not long afterwards I was sent back to Bomber Command. This, this time to Scampton. And about four days in Scampton and they didn’t know what to do with me and sent me to Hemswell.
JM: Just up the road.
EP: Yes. Well, yes it was the satellite to Scampton in those days. Yeah. And there I was back in the bomb dump again. Yeah.
JM: But it is interesting that you saw such terrible things. And I want to ask you how did you get over that? How did you come to terms with what you’d seen?
EP: I don’t know. I don’t know. Joan would tell you that my first two or three years in the RAF she’d hear me talking and shouting in the night. But I don’t know whether it was that or just the whole of the other but even now occasionally I’ll get a smell. A smell of burnt flesh and that. Because I’d already seen the damage that, seen a tail gunner shot up. And you know the guns going out there. But I did, the few months that I was with 103 Squadron when I first went there I was with the aircraft there you see. With the Lancasters. And you would see, you know a plane like that come in with the tail shot up and a man just slumped there and then have to get him out you know. Then us have to get the guns and clean it all up.
JM: I’ve heard about that. It’s a grim story and you were involved in that.
EP: For the, yeah. And as I say when we, that was in C Flight of 103 Squadron. When we went to Kirmington I was pushed in to the bomb dump. Yes.
JM: Yes.
EP: Yeah.
JM: The other question that I would like to ask you, also a difficult one, did you think much about the effect of the bombs you were preparing on the enemy?
EP: I don’t think I did then. I’ve done many times since. In fact I still do. If, if I’ve got a, probably after this for several nights now I will think. But I, I think in the way, almost the way we almost rejoiced if it was a good raid. If we heard that all our planes returned or I mean we knew the planes of our own squadron stations didn’t return because I mean some of the stations had two and three. I don’t know if they had three squadrons but they’d have two squadrons on them. Yeah. But I don’t, I don’t think we gave it much thought really.
JM: It was a job you had to do.
EP: A job we did. And I mean when Alex told me you were coming all that went through my mind, ‘Well all I can tell this gentleman is that I did as I was told.’ And that I think is what we did really. We did as we were told. Did as we were commanded. Yeah. We met all sorts of people. Very nice people. Very nasty people.
JM: Tell us a bit more about that.
EP: Well, I don’t really know what to say. I mean — anyway.
JM: Would you like to stop for a moment?
EP: Well, yes. If you don’t mind. And then —
[recording paused]
EP: Great chaps that I worked with. The chaps that would help you. There were other chaps that — I don’t, I don’t think it came anybody that would be nasty in that way. I mean we held our own to one another. You’d make very good friends and you did miss them when you were posted to another place. What I haven’t mentioned and I think I ought to mention this, I went on another course as an armourer and I don’t think many armourers ever went on this course. I went on a course preparing to store chemical weapons. And I have on my arm here though it’s very, very pale now the mark of a gas burn which I went to a, on a course where there were about no more than about ten or a dozen of us on this course. In a little place near from Boscombe Down. In between Salisbury and Boscombe Down. I can’t tell you the name of the place. I can’t think I ever wanted to remember it. I don’t think it was anything that stuck because I went on this course and when I got back to the station and that would have been the last station I was on, that would have been on Hemswell we never had any facility for storing chemical weapons. Particularly mustard gas which were just in a, like a biscuit tin. A sealed biscuit tin. And the, to drop them they went in these containers. The same as what the incendiary bomb would go into. Go into that. And just impact on the ground would have burst the biscuit tin open. It was only just light, very light metal. And this was because it was believed that as the war was drawing towards an end the enemy could have used chemical weapons. And it was chlorine and mustard. And on this course which as I say was near, somewhere near Boscombe Down because they took us down to Boscombe Down RAF station which was an experimental station. And we went there and I think we just about sat in the truck all the time we were there waiting for something to happen which never did. But we used to go each day to this place there and have lectures on these bombs and how to handle them in there.
JM: Did you actually see the gas at all?
EP: I, we saw the mustard gas. That’s how I come to have.
JM: Right.
EP: This here. Because they showed us the effects of it and we were each supposed to put this on and then show the whatever the anti-gas was to be able to wipe it up. If in handling them you know you had one burst open and how to protect yourself from them, and we had to wear the actual suits that you had to wear which we’d say were like a plastic raincoat these day. You know, you’d have to wear one of those. But as I say when I went back to the station they didn’t know anything about it although they’d sent me on it.
JM: Yeah. Did you wear respirators when you were working with these?
EP: Not with the mustard gas we didn’t. But we did wear the chlorine but the chlorine were in like you’d see in a hospital with oxygen.
JM: Yes.
EP: Like that.
JM: Yes.
EP: And, but they never, they never released any of that. I mean when we, when we wore gas masks there only in gas mask training and we went through one of these places where you lifted the back up and took a whiff of it and that sort of business. Yes. But —
JM: Quite a frightening experience.
EP: That was all Bomber Command.
JM: Yes.
EP: And that was because, as I say it was thought that it might have to be used.
JM: So you went back to Hemswell where you saw out your war service.
EP: No. I was in, no sooner, I can’t remember VE day in the RAF. I think it was just an ordinary day. But not many days after that I went on two parades where squadrons were being disbanded. The two squadrons on. I think one of them was 150 Squadron. I can’t remember the other one. And they were disbanded. And then I was sent off to [pause] where did they send, was sent to dear? You do out here. Oh they were recruiting, recruiting RAF and WAAFs and I was made an acting sergeant to march these people around. And all I was doing was marching them to the square for the drill sergeants to take over and drill them. And do town patrols when people went out at night you had to — like Redcaps really but we weren’t Redcaps. We were acting. Acting unpaid. And there we did and also there I took WAAFs to Gaskell Street’s baths in Manchester. What’s the name of the place that’s just out here? Footballers buy their houses out there.
Other: Alderley Edge.
EP: No. No. No.
JM: Prestwich.
EP: No. Oh dear.
JM: So tell us please Eric about your demob from the Royal Air Force.
EP: My demob from the Royal Air Force. I went to Cardington. I went to RAF Cardington where the airships had been built and there they gave me a suit and a raincoat and sent me on my way. But I came home and I had my battle, I didn’t have my number one, I had my battle dress on as we were, just went as we were working. Came home. Went straight up to my girlfriend’s house. Came home you see and that was that. And when I look back on it well I made some good friends there but they weren’t friends that kept on. Perhaps that’s me. I, I’m not one for sort of joining old comrade’s associations and things like that. I was always a member of the Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund. And I think when I got back my job at the Cotton Exchange had closed. All that had gone like the wind. And I did go to the RAF VR place in Liverpool when I got back and they weren’t very helpful. They didn’t really want to know. I think that the top of the matter was that there were too many of us that were just coming out and got no work to go to and were looking for help. And anyway, I just went the once and I felt that I was given the cold shoulder. You know, I said to you know to myself I wasn’t the right rank or all these sort of things you know. But there are times I feel that if I hadn’t had to go through those five and a half years in the RAF, six years, that life would have been somewhat different. I mean I’d have probably have gone straight through the cotton market. But as cotton went out to India perhaps I wouldn’t. You see. But as I look back now it’s given me a lot to think about over the years and a lot to, I think my own conscience. I couldn’t have been a conscientious objector. I know between right and wrong. And I think I would have had to. I don’t regret what I did. No. I don’t regret what I did and I think it helped me grow up. And I think it also made me so as I couldn’t just depend on other people all the time. I had to make decisions myself. And at ninety four I think it’s worked out all right and — yeah.
JM: Do you have any views on the way that Bomber Command was treated politically after the war?
EP: I did do. Oh, I still do now. I mean I, I told you we had our hut at the entrance of the, to the bomb dump. Right beside it we had a stand with a Lancaster in it and I mean I saw that change crews many times. Change aircraft many times where it would be our turn. He was one that didn’t come back. And people who, I mean some would just ignore you. Others would put their hand up to you or, or even shout a word to you and you’d that was perhaps the last word they ever shouted to an airman, you know. To another airman. So, I mean when I think of those sort of people I still do sometimes. Especially as my daughter, and daughter’s father in law is a man who did a couple of tours. You see, so I think of those as the heroes. And this is why when Alex said you know about coming to this. I thought I’ve got nothing to say, you see. They, they to me were the heroes and I mean for those people I shall always have the greatest admiration. I know there were some rogues amongst them but generally speaking, particularly after they’d done their first couple. And I think that, I think when they first came they were a little bit happy you know. You know. Thought it was going to be marvellous until they’d done one. Two. Yeah. But there we are.
JM: I’ve tried to take you through your service career. Are there any incidents or stories that I haven’t touched on that you’d like to record?
EP: I don’t think so. No. I don’t think so. I enjoyed the bit of flying that I had with them. But —
JM: Did you ever get to fly in a Lancaster?
EP: Yes. I did a trip in a Lancaster once. That was, and I worked on that as well. Not with bombs. With food. Err, oh hanna.
JM: Manna.
EP: Manna. Operation Manna. Hemswell didn’t fly from there but we were taken out from there to another, and I can’t remember the name of that station. In that area right close nearby. And we used to go there and bomb up with food. And one or two of us got the opportunity to go with them and we went on that. And —
JM: So you were sitting in the fuselage of a Lancaster —
EP: Sitting there. Sitting on an ammunition box by the wireless operator but was able to go back and stand under the astro and hold on to the, there. I’m sure the pilots did it on purpose to get us so that we’d fall down [laughs] They’d scoot. Yeah.
JM: What did you think of a Lancaster to fly in?
EP: Oh marvellous. Yeah. Marvellous. Yeah. Yeah. I always stand in awe if I see one go across.
JM: Yeah.
EP: You know. Yeah.
JM: Lovely.
EP: Yeah. Wonderful things.
JM: Were you offered the opportunity to go on what were called Cook’s Tours after the war?
EP: No.
JM: To see the bombed cities. I know some ground crews did that.
EP: No.
JM: I wondered whether you’d had that chance.
EP: No. No. I don’t know. Well, I think Hemswell, I don’t think any squadrons ever went back there.
JM: Right.
EP: I know, I mean I told you I was on the two that were disbanded from there.
JM: Yes. Yes.
EP: We did a big parade. A big military parade for that. But I don’t think because the last I heard of it was many years ago and it was a, they had these rockets there. Yeah.
JM: Eric, I think we’re bringing this interview to a close now. I want to thank you for giving me such a very detailed, balanced and very, very important interview. You’ve shown us a lot of the life of armourers and ground crew. Thank you very much indeed.
EP: Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Eric Peel
Creator
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Julian Maslin
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-18
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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APeelE161018
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:08:06 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Eric Peel worked in the Cotton Exchange in Liverpool before he volunteered for the RAF. He trained as an armourer and was initially posted to 56 Squadron at RAF Sutton Bridge where he worked on Hurricanes. He then was posted to 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds and accompanied the squadron when it moved to RAF Kirmington. Eric witnessed a number of cases of loss of life including a glider accident and recalled the sight of a Lancaster coming back with the rear gunner slumped in his turret. Eric loaded Lancasters with food for Operation Manna.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Wiltshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
103 Squadron
166 Squadron
bomb trolley
bombing
bombing up
fear
ground personnel
Hurricane
incendiary device
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Boscombe Down
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Kirmington
RAF Padgate
RAF Sutton Bridge
service vehicle
tractor
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1420/36156/BHiltonVTHiltonVTv1.2.pdf
055085e3ea7ec031474816930fe89f6d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hilton, Vaughn Thomas
V T Hilton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hilton, VT
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collection concerns Pilot Officer Vaughn Thomas Hilton (430281 Royal Australian Air Force) and contains his log book, his biography and his identity card.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by John Lawrence
Hilton and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dare to Discover: World War II experiences of V T Hilton
Memoir of Vaughn Thomas Hilton
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BHiltonVTHiltonVTv1
Description
An account of the resource
describes V T Hilton's life in Australia, his training and service with 192 Squadron
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mark Hilton
Vaugh Thomas Hilton
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2009
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944-10-07
1944-10-09
1944-10-26
1944-11-02
1944-11-04
1944-11-10
1944-11-21
1944-11-26
1944-12-01
1944-12-02
1944-12-05
1944-12-17
1944-12-06
1944-12-18
1944-12-28
1944-12-30
1945-01-02
1945-01-14
1945-01-16
1945-01-22
1945-02-03
1945-02-05
1945-02-07
1945-02-08
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
1942-02-20
1945-03-03
1945-03-07
1945-03-20
1945-04-02
1945-04-04
1945-04-08
1945-04-10
1945-04-13
1946
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Belgium
Germany
Poland
Great Britain
England--Norfolk
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Bonn
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dessau (Dessau)
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Ladbergen
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Plauen
Germany--Stade (Lower Saxony)
Germany--Ulm
Poland--Szczecin
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
56 printed pages
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription. Allocated
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
192 Squadron
aircrew
arts and crafts
bomb trolley
bombing up
crewing up
FIDO
fuelling
H2S
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operational Training Unit
petrol bowser
RAF Foulsham
RAF Rufforth
service vehicle
training
Wellington
Window
wireless operator
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/527/8761/PParkerWC1505.1.jpg
c3505c05e9a355683dcca5b157840db9
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/527/8761/AParkerC150717.2.mp3
d97fcfc78e20daf5ccec6adcaced305a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Parker, Charles
W Charles Parker
W C Parker
C Parker
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Parker, C
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flying Officer Charles Parker (195483 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 128 and 163 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CP: W Charles Parker, Fast Night Striking Force of number 8 Group Pathfinders, Bomber Command. Ready?
Er, this paragraph is called “Crewing Up”. We, pilots and navigators, were interred in a rather large drill hall and told we had two hours to crew up. Now with Mosquitos, the crewing up, there’s only two of us and it’d be easier one would think than it is for a Lancaster with seven or maybe eight people. Er, at this particular time, it was in September ’43, and I was a very green twenty-one year old, not really knowing what was going to happen next, because I didn’t feel I could approach ‒, some of the pilots who were way over a thousand hours flying, complete with gongs, and I felt I had to wait for them to approach me. Some had already crewed up in their minds and were ready to say ‘yes.’ As far as I was concerned, I was a bit shy but I was quite surprised when somebody came up behind me and said, ‘I wonder whether you would risk your life with me, Sergeant?’ I turned round and it was Flight Lieutenant Patrick Duncan who, in fact, had an Air Force Cross already. I looked at his medal ribbon and thought, ‘this is the man for me’, and I never regretted that.
Er, I call this “De-Oxyenisation”. It happened on my twenty-first birthday and I spent the best part of that day, all morning and into the afternoon, trying to let the powers that be decide whether I could be fit to fly at high level in a Mosquito. The unfortunate part about it was that I knocked the oxygen tap off, and whether promptly or shortly, I passed out and they had to deoxyenise me, decompression chamber, to allow it to get down to normal level, and then we had to go through the whole episode again because of my stupidity. I think, for the uninitiated, I should say that whilst we were in the decompression chamber that the oxygen was withdrawn, and we were asked to write our full names and address. The point is that one never got to the last line of the address without looking as though you were drunk. Then comes my first episode with 1409 flight, which was the Met flight that went ahead of the main force and relayed the weather over the target. We happened to take off one evening, and when we were airborne which, and we always in a Mosquito, climbed on track, unlike the American Flying Fortress, which spent the best part of an hour and a half to get up to height before setting course. Anyway, there we were, listening, as we were getting near the coast, near Cromer, to the 6 o’clock news and suddenly, I saw another Mosquito heading straight for me, at the same level, and all I had time was to bang Pat on the shoulder and point, and this Mosquito of 1409 Met flight was within ten foot of colliding with us. Fortunately, we went down and the Met flight went up, but we found out afterwards which aircraft of 1409 it was, and we had a few words to say. My first operational flight would have been one of the German Ruhr targets, but because of weather being bad, we were cancelled for that night, and on our second night in the squadron, we were targeted for the big city, Berlin. Naturally, as you can understand, that as it was our first operational flight it was somewhat difficult to class our experience, and although there was quite a bit of flak around, we didn’t see any night fighters at all and we got back quite reasonably, and on the immediate briefing with the intelligence officer on the ground, we were de-briefed reasonably well with the exception of his query. ‘What was the flak like?’ Being completely honest fighters, we told him that it was the first flight and that therefore we didn’t know what we had to expect, and he said, ‘I see your point. I’ll tell you now that most of the crews have said the flak was medium’. So I said, ‘well, we’ll take their word for it. The flak was medium and we’ll know what to expect next time’.
The next episode is our thirteenth trip. I think all aircrew are somewhat superstitious and we weren’t really looking forward to flight number thirteen, which was also to the big city, Berlin, and whilst we were waiting for the aircraft to be bombed up with a four thousand pound cookie, it has to be wound up, as it were, on cables into the bomb bay of the Mosquito, and it was just about to bomb bay height when there was a clunk, and the four thousand pounder plonked down, nose first, on the ground. I stopped running after a hundred yards before I realised that it wasn’t any good running, because the cookie wasn’t actually armed at that particular moment. That comes after it’s fully loaded in the bomb bay. When I got back to the aircraft, it was decided that we would use the spare kite for the night, which was in the hangar. We got there and the officer IC night flights told me take a table in the shed and work out a new flight plan. At that particular moment, I didn’t think I was going to be asked to fly that night, but they were quite serious so away into the shed I had to go to work out a new flight plan, and the crux of the matter was, that even if I increased our cruising speed by five miles an hour, I still wouldn’t arrive over Berlin until at least ten minutes after all the others had left. This didn’t appeal to me at all, but within another five minutes the aircraft was ready. Pat turned round to me and said, ‘come on Charles, we’ll go’. I said, ‘not me’, so he said, ‘what do you mean?’ I said, ‘I don’t fancy being over the big city by myself for ten minutes’, so he said, ‘no, come on, we’ll go’. So I said, ‘not if I can help it’ [laugh]. ‘This is our thirteenth trip’. So I turned round to the night flying IC and said, ‘does this make sense? All by ourselves and the others all coming back. We’re just going out’. So he says, ‘no, I think we’d better scrub it for tonight’, so I said, ‘thank you, Sir’. Pat said to me, ‘come on Charles, we’re going’. I said, ‘no we’re not, the officer IC night flying said we don’t have to’, so I didn’t go that night. Whilst we talk about being over the big city, I think I might just as well say here and now that the flak over Berlin was heavier than most of the targets, mainly because it was bigger, but it was particularly brought to my notice that the way the searchlights operated over Berlin and, in this particular case, we noticed that parallel to us was a bright bluish white searchlight, which was tracking us about a mile away, and then all of a sudden, with a, like a swish, that one searchlight came over and it had us, radar controlled, as it were. And with that, all the other searchlights anywhere near landed on us as well, just following the this whitish searchlight. It was a good three to four minutes before we were able to escape.
The next episode is one I call “Our May Day or SOS Flight”. We were returning from one of the German targets, I can’t remember which one it was now, but we’d had quite a bit of engine trouble and it meant using one of the engines and closing down, feathering the other one, and when the first engine got a bit overheated we swapped them over. And this went on for quite a time, by which time we’d crossed over the Dutch coast, and I seemed to have the idea that we were over Grimsby Docks. God knows why, all I could see was what I thought was fisherwomen gutting the fish, which made me think of Grimsby, but I think I was suffering from lack of oxygen as well because it turned out that we were nowhere near Grimsby, we were a hundred miles south of track, over France. Having discovered approximately where we were, Pat then decided that we just didn’t have enough petrol, and he said, ‘I’m going to have to send out a May Day call, Charles, and you want to get ready, because I think you’ll be bailing out within the next five minutes’. Within that next five minutes, he called out, ‘May Day, May Day, May Day’ and we got an answer back, saying ‘we are putting searchlights up showing you where to head’, and with that, searchlights came up to the north and seemed to indicate the direction we should go, but by that time we were almost out of petrol and Pat called out, said, ‘we need immediate landing instructions because gravy is low, gravy is low’. This means, of course, that our petrol was spread out over all the tanks with very little left in any of them. These searchlights then meant that we were able to go straight in without doing an audit or anything, and it was just over Beachy Head and the aerodrome was no further than a mile to the north. It was a grass aerodrome we landed in, thank God. It turned out afterwards that there was about twelve gallons of petrol, spread over fifteen tanks, which meant there was, as far as aircraft are concerned, there was nothing in any of them. We went into flight control to see the chaps, give them details in there, and he said, ‘Oh well, if it’s just a question of loading up, we’ll give you sufficient to get back to, to Wyton and you’ll be able to go back there tonight’. So I said to Pat, ‘not if I know it, now I’ve got my feet on terra firma and that’s where they’re going to stay’, and it was a naval air station at the time and he was the equivalent of an Air Force squadron leader in charge, and he looked at me completely aghast, to think that a mere sergeant was arguing with a flight lieutenant, but we didn’t go back to ‒, even though Pat said that we had the day off tomorrow. I said, ‘Well I can’t help it, by the time we get back there in the morning, we’ll have the half a day off anyway’. He still couldn’t believe it, this naval officer [laugh]. This covered a light drinking session in the mess, er, having a few beers with fellow squadron people, and also with Tommy Broom, who was our navigation officer, Tommy Broom DFC and two bars, and we were just talking about things in general and Tommy said to me, ‘I suppose you think it’s about time you had a gong?’ To which I said, ‘well, no, I don’t think I’m due for a gong but I think Pat is.’ I said, ‘If it hadn’t been for him, I wouldn’t be here now.’ So he said, ‘so you think he should get a decoration?’ So I said, ‘Yes, I think so.’ To which he said, ‘well, I have to tell you that he has already been recommended for the DFC, but you’re not to tell him that yet. It’s just that I was taken unawares by your decoration’. So I said, ‘yeah’, and he said, ‘I suppose you don’t think you haven’t earned one either’. So I said, ‘well no, I’m only worried about Pat at the moment’. So he said, ‘well so long as you don’t tell anyone but’, he said, ‘you’ve also been recommended for the DFM and it will be possibly a couple of months before it actually is gazetted’. So I said, ‘well, thanks very much, I won’t say a word’.
This is a story which I never thought would happen but it refers to the time when we were orbiting Wyton Aerodrome before being called to land, and I noticed that Pat was having quite a struggle with the controls and things weren’t exactly smooth. He asked me if I could see anything untoward at the tail of the aircraft, and I noticed then what I thought was the tail ident light had come somewhat loose, and was whirling around as though it was a firework display. With that, Pat was struggling with the controls but he was determined to get the thing down in one piece, and when we hit the runway, the next thing I knew was we were off the concrete and onto the grass, and heading straight for the flying control tower. With that, we finally stopped no more than ten foot from the flying control building, and with that, all hell broke loose on the ground. There were people outside trying to undo the Mosquito to let us out, and as I was the first one to drop to the ground. I was grabbed by one of the ground control people, who seemed to think that I was panicking, but anyway I didn’t go any further. The inquest afterwards of course, was Ivor Broom saying that the episode was the second that he knew of and the first one, the crew didn’t survive. It turned out in the end that, sorry, it turned out in the end that it was the dinghy which was kept in the top aircraft, immediately behind the cabin had broken loose and blown up and wrapped itself round the tail plane, er, and it was wedged between that and the rudder horn. Nevertheless we were on the ground and it was safe.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command Archives, I’d like to thank Charles Parker at his home at Willow Hill in Hoveton, for his recording on the 17th of the 7th 2015. Thank you very much.
CP: It was on another trip to the big city that the following occurred. We were just turned on to the final leg to the target, which was Berlin, when I realised that I could no longer hear Pat talking to me, and the realisation that I was no longer getting any oxygen through my mask, and then Pat came to the conclusion that the oxygen meter was reading “Nil”. I must have caught the oxygen meter tap with my Mae West as I struggled through to the nose. I then crawled out of the nose, gulping great mouthfuls of oxygen, and when Pat said, ‘are you going down there again?’ I answered, ‘that’s what we came here for’, and then we successfully completed the bombing run, with the cookie leaving the aircraft with an almighty clunk. One more escapade we were involved in was after we left Munich one night, I was rebuilding my folding navigation table to find my flight plan suddenly sucked off, and before I realised it, it had disappeared down the window chute into the wide blue yonder, complete with details of the various stages back to base. The only direction I could give Pat was to fly two hundred and ninety degrees until we hit the English coast, and in the meantime, I could only wonder what I should tell Tommy Broom, the squadron navigation officer, to explain the lack of my flight plan. I could only tell him the truth. The strange thing was that he fortunately believed me.
MJ: [unclear]
CP: It’s on now, is it?
MJ: Yeah, so what did you do?
CP: Well, first of all, I think it’s best to explain, the meaning of the word, “Window” was a code name for bundles of aluminium strips er, approximately a foot long by three or four inches in diameter, and they were covered with brown manila paper with a piece of string through the centre of the bundle back. on the outside of the brown paper and, when they were thrown out through the window chute in the floor of the aircraft, the brown paper was torn by the string and the thing fluttered down with a whole load of strips of aluminium, which were done ‒. The whole idea was to confuse the enemy radar. The Mosquito bomber was completely unarmed.
MJ: Yeah?
CP: In fact, I always used to joke, saying that the only method of armament was the pen knife that I had in the flying boots, which we intended to be used to split the top of the flying boot from the bottom to really facilitate the fact that they could be looking like a pair of shoes if one had to try and escape on the ground.
MJ: Yeah.
CP: We would be told to make feint attacks on various cities within Germany, just to wake them up and cause an hour’s bomber alarm. And then also there were occasions as well, with this window chute, you could carry a small empty beer bottle and drop that through, and it made a whistling sound like an extra bomb but it’s only a bottle.
MJ: Yeah, that’s clever.
CP: Yeah, it took a bit of time before I tried that because I was always frightened it might damage the Mosquito as it was going out, but that never happened. But plenty of empty beer bottles used to be slung out as well.
MJ: Recycling?
CP: Yeah. Well I was only a twenty-one year old, you know, so I mean, anything like that was appreciated. There was another occasion, you just reminded me on that. The Mosquito always used to carry a signal pistol in the roof of the plane and part of the ‒, when we did a night flying test, was to check the Very pistol was empty, and one particular occasion, in order make certain it was empty I found that the thing was actually armed, and rather than going through the task of finding out it was empty or not, and I stress that this was on the ground at dispersal, I pulled the trigger of the Very pistol and it went off with a bang and there was in fact a cartridge in there and er ‒. I was more worried because it pooped out, up in the air, did an arc, came down to the ground and landed on the wing of another Mosquito in a dispersal and luckily it sort of hit the wing and bounced off and petered out on the ground, but if it hadn’t been for the fact that my pilot was in fact the flight commander, I think I would have had a few more stories about pistols going off, so I got away with that one easily enough. Yes.
MJ: This is the end of the second part of the recording with Charles Parker. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Charles Parker
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mick Jeffery
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-17
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AParkerC150717
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:34:50 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Charles Parker was part of the Fast Night Striking Force of Number 8 Group, Pathfinder Squadron in Bomber Command, flying in Mosquitos.
He tells of ‘crewing up’ in September 1943 as a 21 year old, his near miss with a Mosquito from 1409 Met Flight, and an emergency landing near Beachy Head when his Mosquito nearly ran out of fuel when returning from Germany. Charles flew several operations to Berlin from RAF Wyton in Mosquitos and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
8 Group
anti-aircraft fire
bombing up
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Flying Medal
Mosquito
RAF Wyton
searchlight
superstition
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/515/8747/AGreenKS150713.1.mp3
c8ff4633227b104e9027ea6a3b4661cb
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Green, Kenneth Shelton
K S Green
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Green, KS
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Leading Aircraftsman Kenneth Green.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MC: This interview is being conducted for, on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Mike Connock, the interviewee is Kenneth Shelton Green and the interview is taking place at Skellingthorpe Community Centre on the 13th of July 2015.
KG: As I say -
MC: OK, Kenneth, what we’ll do is, I’ll just ask you to tell me a bit about when and where you were born.
KG: Yes
MC: and err, your early days, school and the, the area you lived in
KG: Yes, right. I was born at Pleasley near Mansfield, on the 17th of January 1922, I lived variously, as a small person with my parents and partially with my grandparents, at a place called Pleasley, and it doesn’t matter what the name of the street is, it was Burghley House, B-U-R-G-H-L-E-Y House, Pleasley, near Mansfield, that’s where my parents lived and my [pause] lived with my mother’s parents when they were first married and where I was born. That’s [unclear], then moved to a small agricultural setup, called Dales Torth D-A-L-E-S T-O-R-T-H, two separate words, Danish background origin, and then we moved to a place called Skegby, S-K-E-G-B-Y, where I started school as a five year old, [pause] err, [pause]. We later moved to Nottingham where my father took up a post with the Nottinghamshire County Council in 1920, [pause] something, six, eight, thereabouts
MC: When were, when were you born?
KG: Oh, I was born 17th January 1922
MC: ‘22
KG: Err, I ‘ve gotten down out as 17, [unclear] move into Nottingham, where we had a house whilst a new house was built for my parents where we occup, which we entered into occupation in 1930 I think, at Mapperley, Gedling, Nottingham, Westdale Lane, that’s it, err, [pause]. I was then transferred to a school at Mapperley, Nottingham and was there until I, from there obtained a scholarship at Nottingham High school where I went in 1933, I think, yeh, [pause]. I had a scholarship for the same year also to Henry Mellish modern school, which I didn’t take up because I went to the high school, err, we lived at Nottingham, well Gedling it was called the address, until I was err, err, I went into business and then into the RAF, and then the Navy, and then came out.
MC: How old were you when you left school?
KG: I left school at the age of 18, 17, 17.
MC: So, did you have any employment from then?
KG: Yes, I worked for a, an insurance company at the office in Nottingham until, I went in the Air Force and I came out of the Navy, er, out of the Air Force
MC: Before you joined the Air Force, did you do anything else?
KG: I was in, oh yes, I was in the, air, auxiliary fire service, the local Carlton AFS where I was part of the team, and ultimately was an engineer with the fire engines and so forth, that’s where I first drove a Rolls Royce, which had a fire pump trailer behind it. That would be 1930, correction, 1941, two.
MC: So, what age were you when you joined the Air Force?
KG: I went into the Air Force, er, in 1942, at the age of - [pause]
MC: Yes, you would be about 19, 20 if you were born in ’22.
KG: I wouldn’t, yes, I get, I’m sorry about this.
MC: That’s ok
KG: I’m so, er, [pause] 1939 was the beginning of the war, 1940, ‘41, ah ‘42 [emphasis], I joined the Air Force, that’s it.
MC: What made you choose the Air Force?
KG: Because I wanted to fly, er, I became an engineer in the Air Force
MC: So, what was the reaction when you asked to fly, what was the action, reaction, from the Air Force when you asked to fly, said you wanted to fly?
KG: Well, I wanted to fly but unknown to me, I had astigmatism, an eye condition which prevented me being accepted for aircrew, yes,
MC: So -
KG: So, I joined the Air Force and then went to my first technical school in South Wales.
MC: Did you do any basic training?
KG: Oh, oh yes, I did my paddy, Padgate, Blackpool, square bashing, then I went into the technical college, technical, er, section of the Air Force in South Wales, erm, name. St Athan
MC: RAF St Athans
KG: Yes, I went and did my first technical course there, and became I, I, merged head of course as a flight mechanic and joined, 61 Squadron RAF, Bomber Command, 5 Group, Lancasters, as an erk, SAC, as LAC, give or take, yes LAC, 1942, yes that’s it, ’42. I stayed with squadron, until, moved to, oh, oh, wait a minute, I didn’t, I went off on a conversion course to, number 1 school of technical training, Halton, RAF, in 1943.
MC: That was conversion too?
KG: I was, I was, then became a fitter to E, engines, LAC, I joined the servicing flight of 61 Squadron, which was a new type of arrangement for dealing with [pause] periodic inspections, a separate team
MC: [unclear]
KG: A separate team, a separate team, we were an upstage from the, from the squadron, but we were still on the squadron, but we were the servicing flight, er
MC: Where was that, that was at?
KG: That was at RAF Syerston, first of all, 61 Squadron,
MC: Not far from here
KG: The squadron then moved to Skellingthorpe
MC: So, what was the -
KG: And then from Skellingthorpe to [pause] bom, bom, bom, [pause] er, Coningsby, then back to Skellingthorpe, where they have been doing some runway work in the meantime, still on 61 Squadron, er, I was then posted to a new par unit, production unit, at RAF Bottesford
MC: Can I go back to Syerston, when you -
KG: Yes
MC: First went back to Syerston, what, err, you worked, what mark of Lancaster did you work on?
KG: I worked on both Mk 2’s and Mk 1’s and Mk 3’s, the Mk 2’s then left the squadron, down to, went down to Cambridge where they shifted the whole lot, but we were the, we were a rare beast there were very few Mk 2’s made, they were, [pause] Bristol Hercules engines in a Lancaster, so I am one of the relatively small number of people who worked on those.
MC: That was all part of your training?
KG: Well no, it was part of service, I was at the squadron with them
MC: Yes, but I mean you, your training on the engines
KG: Oh well, you did, you did all engines
MC: Oh, you did?
KG: And expected, I, I took a, a works course at Rolls Royce, Derby on Rolls Royce engines in 1943 [pause], yes
MC: So, then you went on to Skellingthorpe from Syerston?
KG: But, but well I, no, whilst I was at Skellingthorpe, I went off to Derby and did a course then came back, then, I left Skellingthorpe to this, to Bottesford
MC: Can I ask you what’s, what were your reactions to the accommodation and stuff at Skellingthorpe, what was it like?
KG: At Skellingthorpe you were, you were, a Nissan hut in a field [pause] oh, over the hedge and so forth, away from the main er, sites at er, Skellingthorpe. We had a proper civilised brick establishment at er, Syerston of course, [laugh] it was not, it was not highly regarded the basic sort of Nissan huts that we ended up with at Skellingthorpe [laugh] but anyway, I use, I used not to go preferably to, well the guard room was too far away, I lived over fields so it was nearer to go over the next field over across the farm and down to erm, the station at Hykeham, where it was very convenient to catch a train to Nottingham where I lived and I er, it saved time and other things. Not to go as far as Nottingham but to get off at Carlton, which is the station before Nottingham so you didn’t meet people like SP’s who wanted to know how, why, when and where.
MC: I’d like to cover some of the experiences at Skellingthorpe if I can, erm, you know
KG: Yeah
MC: Mishaps or whatever
KG: Well, life was what it was, one worked hard, I was proud to be there, we, we went off to do all sorts of things occasionally. I went down to, I went down to [unclear] erm, Silverstone [emphasis] I went down to Peterborough, servicing was to pick up a Lancaster, it had landed down there after ops and it wasn’t working properly but in actual fact, it was that the pilot was friendly with a WAAF in the stores there [laughs]. When he was doing his OTU training [laughs], however, Chiefy and I went down by Hillman Minx sort of garry, and, er, sorted the aeroplane out which was not in dire straits, there were a few sparks out of the exhaust pipe that was it, that was the argument, err, yes
MC: So, you, you say you went down to Peterborough and it was er, -
KG: Well, yeah, I went to Peterborough to swap an engine on Mickey the Moocher as it was at er, later, 61 Squadron’s M, Mike, and the flight mechanic who was on the flights with it, he painted the first Mickey the Moocher and the Mickey, and then the trolley and the bomb and all the rest of it er, yeah and I spoke to him after the war, he lived in South Wales then er, [pause]
MC: So, you got quite friendly with the crew of Mickey the Moocher then?
KG: Oh, oh we went down to her because the third crew on Mickey the Moocher, yes, I think they were the third crew, they’d had an engine blow, starboard outer, blew up on an op and they landed at Peterborough, so, er, a colleague of mine from the squadron went down with an engine and swapped it and managed to get it all put together and back again the next day
MC: How long would it take you to change an engine?
KG: Well, it, [laughs] not long because we wanted to catch the train from Nottingham [laughs], at five thirty [laughs] from Hykeham, so we flew back by Lancaster [laughs] yeah, up to the Nissan hut in the field and then out of the back door to the Hykeham station [laughs]
MC: I gather you experienced quite a bit of an explosion at Skellingthorpe?
KG: Oh, Skellingthorpe, yes in the course of ordinary work, we did our periodic, periodic inspections which were a stage up from what, what the squadron could do and I, I was stuck on a B flight aircraft, I can’t remember which one it was now, erm, with err, another chap. I’d finished my port outer, I’d done no snags and engine ready, and it was four o’clock thereabouts and my colleague John, was in the record for the getting killed, he was doing the port inner
MC: Who with?
KG: He said, ‘look, I’ll do the run up with Chiefy, you, you scarper,’ he knew where I was going, so off I went with my bike, he stayed and shortly after I left, before I got, be, beyond sort of two hundred yards from the back over the fence on my bike going down to the station, there was a hell of a bang, and err, something had gone up. I didn’t know what it was, but of course couldn’t do anything about it, preceded on my way, get back at midnight at Hykeham and people said, ‘Oh we’ve been sweeping the deck looking for your fingernails,’ and so forth and it was er, my friend who’d kindly stayed to do the run up and this whole tractor and trailer, train of thousand pound, yellows, yankee, DA, delayed actions for daylight were tur, turning round to bomb up and servicing aircraft when you are doing bombing up was not [emphasis] a good thing to do. Anyway, my friend was blown, blown apart because the back spring on the trailer, row of trailers which was being driven by a chap, I think he was an electrician, anyway he’d broken his collar bone and he was fed up with doing nothing and he accepted the job as driving the tractor for armourers with a whole string of bombs and he was with his arm in, in plaster, he was driving one handed and the, the back spring on the back trailer which you can, you know was far off and you couldn’t see it and it broke and the back bomb [three loud taps] kept hitting the ground and it pulled the safety pin out and so forth, and, er, as he got to the aircraft where my friend was still doing his port inner engine, it went bang and the lot went from here to there and back again, so he’s, he was killed and is in the er, killed list that would be I think, October, September, October ’40, ’44.
MC: Squadron [unclear]
KG: Hmm
MC: Any other, any other -
KG: It was, it was a B Flight aircraft
MC: Any other issues like that?
KG: Well, no, I mean, whilst going, whilst, for, for a time we were going all the way down at Bottesford, a mate and I we used to go by train, from erm, from Carlton to Newark, in the mornings, and cycle, down the A1 to Bottesford, over the, over the hedge and so forth, because we had got a permanent living out chit, both of us, and both of us came from Nottingham, and we cycled, used to cycle down. I can remember this Sunday morning, winter, it would be ‘44, seeing these, these, contrails going vertically up from the ground down to the south east, and they were the German V2’s being fired from Holland into England, we didn’t know at the time but er, that’s exactly what it was, that was an interesting, you know when, when you it was sort of 5am, 6am, that sort of thing but in the early light of dawn, to see these things going up and not knowing what they were
MC: So, when did you leave 61 Squadron?
KG: Came then, on, and er, I left 61 to go down to Bottesford, for doing, doing these, we used to make, make up brand new engines for
MC: Oh, engine assembly
KG: Into power plants, we were, we were instead of a factory somewhere doing it, we were RAF people doing it, we could do it alright, we knew what we were about, we were all qualified people and, er, yes, it, it was interesting
MC: Had you got any promotions from then?
KG: No, no, it was no such thing then, out of the blue, we were slung in the, slung in the Navy
MC: So, there’s no [unclear]
KG: Which was not, [emphasis] not to our liking
MC: So, you finished up in the [unclear]
KG: So, I went off back to Padgate, Warrington, to go into the Navy, from the Air Force and there we were issued with all our naval gear. I was dressed as a taxi driver, because I was a fitter, other people were dressed as sailors, of course that suited them with the young ladies around, that suited them very much for a time, but they soon got fed up with it, all the year, and, err, we were not best pleased, we were definitely dis-chuffed, and the excuse, and they put us under armed guard, with the old barbed wire, and so forth, and that, that, really did knock people who were, you know, we didn’t like that and the politicians from London running around like scared rabbits, didn’t know what, what they were doing and they didn’t [laughs] but then they claimed they, they were propaganda game was who. The Army guard were pleased because we had got cheap cigarettes [laughs] anyways, it, it was a, talk about a hairs breath from really blowing up out there and really, we were dis-chuffed, we were very fed up indeed, [laughs]
KG: Yes, that was a, a not a very unhappy experience, then in the Navy. I was sent off to a squadron in Northern Ireland, with a, oh, [laughs] a, a low grade of training aircraft and we, one didn’t have, and I had very little regard for them and then
MC: [unclear] Can you remember what aircraft it was?
KG: Err, [pause] I could have done when I walked in [laughs], what was it
MC: [unclear]
KG: It was a single engined, target towing aircraft, and they used to tow a glider, tin, little tin gliders, fifteen-foot span, for, to be shot at by, RAF fighters in training, or Navy fighters in training. Then we left, they were building a ship at Belfast, which was, instead, they said you are going to be on our ship, for going out to Russia or Timbukthree, oh yes, before, by then, we had got Tiger force, who were going to have Lancasters to Siberia, would bomb, outbound, bomb Japan, land in the islands, re bomb and back into Russia. We were, we were quite, we could put up with that, we were, we thought that was quite interesting, and that’s where we were going to go you see, in the RAF, and then they bunged us in the Navy [laughs], all part of the story.
MC: What about flying yourself when you was, when you was
KG: I, I,
MC: When you was doing the servicing
KG: Right
MC: Did you do any test flights?
KG: In flying, I once went to the trouble, first time, a new boy, to get a parachute from stores, to go on a test flight, after doing an ordinary inspection, that’s an L plate, number one, new boy. By the time I got back, they were nearly fed up with waiting for me ‘cos I’d taken so long, to cycle across the airfield, find the stores, argue the toss with the store masters. Anyway, got back, and that’s the only time I ever got a parachute [laughs] and flew, from that time onwards, if I, if I mended it, I’ll fly it, I don’t want to know about parachutes [laughs], never again did I wear a parachute, [laughs] flying in the Air Force, that’s, that’s true [laughs]
MC: So, what was your role on the test flight, what did you do?
KG: Well I, sat on the, I looked around, sat in, lay on the rash bed or [laughs] what have you, err, you just hung around, just another, just another jolly [laughs]. I remember, from, Skellingthorpe, a young chap was a pilot, we’d done all the inspections and I, I as usual, I would always grab a flight if I could, after we’d done the inspection, and we, I can remember, I was standing in the astrodome, which was near the mid upper, and we were doing fighter affiliation as a, argy bargy with a Spitfire or Hurricane, or something and I remember looking up in the astrodome, and there was Newark [laughs] church spire looking up at me [laughs], I thought how come that, I’m upside down in a Lancaster [laughs] looking down [laughs] at the church tower [laughs]. Interesting experience
MC: How did that happen?
KG: Well, it was, we were [laughs] doing aerobatics in a Lancaster to avoid the fighter, and, and they went on ops that night, this would be late afternoon, they went on ops, that night and got the chop, never came back [laughs] probably the wings fell off [laughs] overstrained or something. Oh dear.
MC: What about socialising within the Air Force when you was off duty and -
KG: Well, we, we never had much socialising, curiously enough, as least I, I would nip off home if I could, you see, it was, that was the easiest way, and I could er, use my time personally, privately, rather better than, and RAF events, we had all the usual, booze up sort of parties and so on, but I, I didn’t drink then, [laughs] when you are younger you don’t, anyway, I used to go off home when I could, and, err, that was a case of bike, Skellingthorpe, took it in and away, err
MC: So, you had experience of the Packard Merlin?
KG: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, I -
MC: Was there much difference?
KG: Packard, oh, very different, but Stromberg carburettors, are, a, a, it’s a whole chapter on its own, SU’s, yes, I know, I know about SU’s, but Stromberg’s, they were a challenge, they were a very involved pieces of machinery, but jolly good, first class, Merlin 24’s, they were fitted to, yeh, anyway, I went into the Navy, after all, all that
MC: So, what aircraft did you work on in the Navy?
KG: Oh, these useless single engine, target towing things, and, er, and that [unclear] in Northern Ireland, oh dear, Northern Ireland, far side, you were there -
Other: Dublin?
KG: No, far side
Other: Far side of Ireland?
KG: Northern Ireland
Other: Northern Ireland? Why you come to er-
MC: Ballykelly
Other: Strabane
KG: No, no, bigger city
Other: A city?
KG: Yes, ah, [emphasis] the capital of Northern Ireland
Other: Belfast?
KG: No, opposite side, opposite side, far, far side
Other: Well, the capital is at this side
KG: Yes, yes, I know
Other: Belfast
KG: It’s the next, er, no, it’s, er, big city, beyond side of Ireland
Other: Well, there’s Limavady
KG: Northern Ireland, no, next to Limavady, and it’s quite a small place, next door to Limavady, further over, the big city, where all the, the, erm -
Other: Cork?
KG: No, no, north
Other: Yeah
MC: So, you were at Derry
KG: Yeah
MC: With the Navy?
KG: Yes, yeah
MC: So, what, where did you go from there?
KG: Then we were moved to, Cornwall, which was er, [laughs] not the brightest idea, especially as they got off the train somewhere at Crewe, then the train went, and then we found that we shouldn’t have got off, that was a genius [emphasis] naval officer, [laughs]
MC: Oh, was that still with the Navy to Cornwall?
KG: Yes, [laughs] and then I was at there, down there at Cornwall, Padstow was the end of the line, the buffers, and you couldn’t go any further, and that was then, you got off there, and you got on a garry and went to the airfield, an RAF airfield, modern built, big runways, and they served us in the Fleet Air Arm, not just in the Navy, but what was it called, north shore of Cornwall [pause] oh, dear oh dear, big airfield
MC: St Mawgan
KG: No, it’s next to there,
Other: You’ve got Wellington down there haven’t you
KG: No but, we had, in fact, they, 61 Squadron put some Lancasters to fly down to Spain from there, we lost them, Mk 2’s, from 61 Squadron, you know where I mean, I, I, it just goes blank on me, you haven’t got an atlas with you? No, [pause]
MC: So, this was a holiday estate on the north shore of Cornwall, was it?
KG: Yeh, and that was where, where, near Padstow, and then you go inland and there was the airfield, but, and on the coast, going the opposite way, there was this er, holiday resort
MC: So, were you there until you finished in the Air, in the Navy, or finished it during the end of the war
KG: No, no, they, they explained that I wouldn’t usually get out, and I would say when, when do I get my ticket, oh no you can’t, with the Navy you have to wait until your replacements come, it’ll take two or three years, and so I said words to the effect of stuff that, and so I had a word with higher up, I didn’t tell my theoretical seniors, I went over their head and said there’s a way of me getting a broken educational continuity course, civilianisation, and so forth, where, where, do I get the course for that, and suddenly out of the blue, I was posted to this naval college, which was, oh yeah, Salisbury part of the world, I mean, it’s just gone blank on me
MC: When was that?
KG:’45, I, I went then and my lot who were saying you can’t go, they couldn’t do anything about it, I said, ‘you can’t argue with head office, I’ve gone,’ so off I went, and I spent, er, er, five or six weeks becoming a civilian, we were all ranks, commissioned and non-commissioned, it was very, [laughs] and we went round visiting companies to see how companies run in civvy street, and so forth, [laughs] it was a good five or six weeks, and then when I got back, they’d, they’d found a replacement for me, and I, very shortly, I went down to Plymouth, and, and got my civilian establishment, papers, and so forth, and left them.
MC: So, post war what was your reaction to the job you did and the work you did?
KG: Well, I went back into the office and then, picked up where I’d been
MC: I’m thinking about your thoughts, on, you know, on the war itself
KG: Well
MC: And what you did and -
KG: I just worked in an office, that’s all I could -
MC: As a flight engineer
KG: No, as a clerk
MC: No, I meant during the war, what did you think of the work you’d done during the war
KG: Well, I thought I was not doing a bad job, I’d, I’d done technically, I’d learnt everything I could, I was interested, [emphasis] I learnt everything I could about Rolls Royce, I considered myself a cut, er, you know, I knew what I was doing, the other lot, not necessarily, and when we were building up power plants, you felt that you were part of the, it is, it’s a strange thing because to find yourself in effect being rather like Rolls Royce works and building their power plants which is what we were doing and we were turning out a lot of power plants, and er, they were going out on ops and being broken [laughs] etc. and we were turning out
MC: So, obviously post war then, you said you went in an office
KG: I went back into the office, and er, ultimately, I became an outside rep, and then I came up to Scunthorpe and opened a new office, the first, first North Lincolnshire office, I was running the whole caboodle
MC: I gather you ultimately achieved your ambition to fly
KG: Well, no, that went on, I then left the insurance company and went as, I joined the chairman of my commercial group, as his PA, and, and, ultimately, became the director of all the companies at Scunthorpe, and we, and anyway, there was a lot of business things I was running new lines in business in Cornwall, and Chester etc. etc., we were, we were, tied up with the sewer works, I went to, I did a tour of America and so forth, with the, with the, tying up with business people as, as I say I became a director of eight or nine companies and in the meantime -
MC: So, where did the flying come in?
KG: Oh, oh, then, but I started, I stayed in [unclear] in motor sport, car rallying, and so forth, navigating and so forth, I was in things like, all the Daily Express rallies. I was driving and co-driving and navigating on those etc. it was a pretty busy sort of existence er, I forget, one forgets about and then I, heard about flying and I thought oh I’ll try this, and started with the local Lincoln flying club, and went on and on and on ultimately flying, involved with more exotic sort of flying, and through twin engines, and night flying and airways and all sorts of things, and, er, in business I was using it of course as well because it was convenient sometimes to fly here, there and everywhere and I was a qualified, qualified pilot in night airways etc. and radio etc. etc. etc., oh well, and so it went on
MC: Er, do you, do you keep in touch with many of your colleagues from the RAF days?
KG: Er, I’m afraid there aren’t many of us left [laughs]. I’ve gone to the squadron association, and that’s, I’ve regarded that as my main link and people who I used to know have passed away or gone on, I, don’t know, these links decay and fall but Skellingthorpes the only one really that is, is my active one
MC: Well, thank you very much Kenneth
KG: Not very natural, but, er, I’m sorry, I’m, iffing and butting, but
MC: No
KG: Er, one forgets and time goes on you see, and then I retired in my sixties, but, er, I, I, then, I was the founder, and Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, new Chamber of Commerce, North Lincolnshire and so forth, North Lindsey as we call it, erm, etc., it, it just happens, and suddenly you realise, you’re eighty not sixty, [laughs]
MC: And how old are you now?
KG: Ninety-three
MC: But, it’s been lovely talking to you Kenneth
KG: Anyway, I’m sorry I’m, I’ve, been -
MC: No, it’s
KG: Wandering and I can’t remember, and anyway, you’ve helped to remind me of -
MC: Thank you
KG: And names and -
MC: Tell me about this trip up to er, Yorkshire then, what, what -
KG: What was the name of the airfield inland from -
Other: From where?
KG: From Bridlington
Other: From Bridlington, it would be Driffield
KG: Driffield
MC: Yes, so you finished
KG: I had this aircraft, 61 Squadron aircraft, and landed at Driffield, been shot up, MU crowd had rebuilt it there, we went up to spent 2 or 3 days sorting it out, weather went clampers, so we were stuck with no gear, no nothing [laughs] I know we went down to, Bridlington, and, and, shall I say extracted some free money out of the penny in the slot machines, by devious means [laughs] oh dear, anyway, then the weather improved, and that’s when we separated, everybody went off but I was left with the aircraft and the incoming CO from 61 Squadron, and the signals leader, so it was a three man crew for a Lancaster [laughs]
MC: You flew as flight engineer, did you?
KG: I flew as flight engineer, I was, I was the crew [emphasis] flight engineer, everything [laughs] you don’t argue with a CO, I mean, I had probably been in as many Lancasters as him, running up and one thing and another, but it was all part of fun and games, that would be ‘44, can’t remember when, it was before, oh, before I went to Bottesford, so it would be ‘44, summer, yeah, [laughs] you forget these things, I do.
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Title
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Interview with Kenneth Shelton Green
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Mike Connock
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-13
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Sound
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AGreenKS150713
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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eng
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Royal Air Force
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00:41:21 audio recording
Description
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Kenneth Green was born on the 17th January 1922 at Pleasley, near Mansfield and worked with the Carlton Auxillary Fire Service before joining the Royal Air Force at the age of 20.
He trained as an engineer after he was unable to fly due to eye problems, and worked on a variety of engines, including the Bristol Hercules, Packard Merlin and the Rolls Royce Merlin engines.
He tells of his time on base, the explosion that took the life of his friend, and the work he completed on the Avro Lancasters and worked on the Mark 1, 2 and 3’s.
Kenneth joined 61 Squadron, and served at Skellingthorpe and Bottesford, before working with the Royal Navy where he worked on single engine aircraft.
Contributor
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Vivienne Tincombe
61 Squadron
bombing up
fitter engine
ground crew
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 2
Lancaster Mk 3
military living conditions
Nissen hut
RAF Bottesford
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF St Athan
RAF Syerston
service vehicle
tractor
V-2
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1038/11410/PMorrisPG1701.1.jpg
dbe8fd14d0cec7f62ab5484ff8161149
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1038/11410/AMorrisPG171010.2.mp3
2abe2291828666848d77cd6c852668b9
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Morris, Peter
P G Morris
Description
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An oral history interview with Peter Morris (b.1925, 1813258 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 90, 42 and 120 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-10-10
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Morris, PG
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RP: This interview is being conducted on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Rod Pickles. The interviewee is Peter Morris. The interview is taking place at Mr Morris’ home in Collompton, Devon on the 10th of October 2017. Francis Platt is also present. Good morning, Peter. Could you start by telling us when and where you were born and what led you to joining the RAF, please?
PM: Well, I was born in East Ham in East London in the June of 1925. I lived in London throughout the Blitz and I suppose was full of bravado when the ATC started in 1941. I joined. And I decided to train as air crew. And after a couple of years in the Air Training Corps at seventeen I joined the Royal Air Force and I was accepted to train as either a pilot bomb aimer or navigator. I was called up just two weeks before my eighteenth birthday and I went initially on an education course because I left school at fourteen and I was keen to get my education better. And after that I went through the normal basic training for the RAF which was just the normal square bashing and so on. And I spent twelve hours flying on Tiger Moths to see whether I’d got the application to be a pilot. But I wasn’t too keen. And then after a lot more [pause] I then did more aptitude tests in London and it was decided that I should train as a navigator. And then I was sent to Heaton Park in Manchester which was a holding unit for air crew and I was there for nearly six months waiting for a navigation course. At the time they told us that the losses in Bomber Command were less than they were expecting. Well, as one in two got killed I wondered just how many they were expecting.
RP: Well, yes.
PM: And whilst I was there they called for volunteers to go to Hornchurch, just outside London to help repair houses damaged by the V-1 Doodlebugs and I went down there. Spent about a month repairing houses just killing time. And then we were called back to Heaton Park and then they decided they would send us, a group of us went to RAF Waterbeach to work on the bomb dump. The armourers just couldn’t cope at the time as there were twenty aircraft on the station and there were some that were doing two raids a day. And when you had to prepare all the bombs for it. So, we arrived at Waterbeach and the next day we were sent to the bomb dump and there we were shown the bombs that we had to prepare. There were four thousand pound bombs which needed a nose ring fitted because they had pressure fuses in them to help build the pressure up in the noses and the tail fin had to be fitted. And also the lugs which held the bomb on to the aircraft had to be screwed on. Then we had the thousand pounders and there you had to fit the tail units and also you had to fit, fit the fuses in the nose. The only thing we weren’t allowed to do, we weren’t allowed to put the detonators in because the detonators were very very touchy and they could go off with the warmth of your hand and so the armourers would fit the detonators. They would screw in the pistols so that was all ready. Another job we weren’t allowed to do were the long delay fuses because they had, not like the Germans, apparently they had a clockwork system. Our long defused, long delay fuses had acid and various forms of plastic rings and as the acid burned through the rings and then it let the firing pin go forward and set the bomb off. But they had an anti-handling device. You only had to turn it half a turn and it would release the trigger and the bomb went off. So we weren’t allowed to do that. The armourers had to do that. And of course the armourers put them on the aircraft. It was quite a job to think that everyone had to be hand winched up in to the aircraft. And we were there for about a month. The first day I was there we got there about 9 o’clock in the morning and I, still there 9 o’clock the following morning. We had spent all night. They brought food out to us at the bomb dump and we were just getting these bombs ready for them to get on the aircraft. And I remember sitting on a thousand pounder and I fell asleep sitting on it until someone woke me up. And then another job we had doing were packing incendiary bombs. As incendiary bombs they came originally a hundred and fifty in a canister and then they extended the canister so they could get another fifty in each side. So there were three sets of bombs in them and we had to fit another hundred and fifty incendiary bombs in these canisters. And these were small bombs. They were hexagonal shape and there was a small fire, a small pin which you had to fit so that it was kept shut by the can, by the hexagonal shape. And I remember one of the chaps, he happened to accidentally drop one and it went off. We were doing this in a hangar and he had the presence of mind to throw it out the door of the hangar. And the next thing we knew the fire brigade had arrived. They’d seen all the smoke going up —
RP: Yeah.
PM: From this incendiary bomb. But they were very touchy. We were, as I say we were there for about a month doing this and then they, we were called back to Heaton Park because they said that I’d got a navigation course and I was fortunate in many ways because the course was on the Isle of Man. At Jurby. And so I went across to the Isle of Man and qualified as a navigator there and finally qualified in May 1945 just as the VE Day had been declared. And then I went on to train on Wellingtons in preparation to go out to the Far East. And again they dropped the bomb and that stopped that. And from the Wellingtons we went on to Lancasters and I finally went, finished up on a squadron in Bomber Command. Number 90 Squadron at RAF Tuddenham in February 1946.
RP: So most of your war then was dealing with waiting for a course and then —
PM: Yes. Yes. I was, I was a good six months waiting for a navigation course.
RP: And then its VE Day and you don’t see any action.
PM: VE day. They didn’t know what to do with us when we finally qualified and we were sent home on indefinite leave and I had about six weeks at home. And then I got a telegram telling me to report to Number 26 Operational Training Unit at RAF Wing near Leighton Buzzard. And then that was on Wellingtons. And from there, as I say, through to Lancasters.
RP: So when, when you sort of realised that, you know, after the VJ day.
PM: Yeah.
RP: Were you, were you feeling relieved or disappointed? Can you remember?
PM: A bit of both. You obviously at that time you didn’t really know what it was like to go on ops and you always thought that’s what you joined for but at the same time you were relieved that you hadn’t have to go.
RP: Yeah. But did you, when you were at Waterbeach did you meet any of the air crew? Did you get to know any?
PM: No.
RP: You weren’t —
PM: No.
RP: In touch with any of them.
PM: No. No. I think they deliberately kept us out of the way of air crew because they knew what was happening and we didn’t.
RP: So, so only a month. You didn’t feel inclined to become an armourer then.
PM: Oh, no. No.
RP: Seen what they were doing.
PM: No. I wanted to be a navigator.
RP: So you qualified as a navigator. It’s now 1946.
PM: Yeah.
RP: So what happens then?
PM: Then in 1946 they brought out a scheme where you could sign on for three years in the RAF and four years Reserve and they’d give you a hundred pounds for doing it which was a lot of money in those days. And I decided I would sign on and so I signed on for the three years and four Reserve and I remained on the squadron. And then there was trouble out in Yugoslavia and we were sent as an advance party out to Malta to be prepared for going bombing Yugoslavia as they’d attacked one of our ships and also attacked an aircraft I believe. And we spent ten days there and then the whole thing fizzled out and we flew back home again. Then the squadron moved to RAF Wyton which was a permanent station whereas Tuddenham was a wartime base and we re-equipped with Lincoln aircraft. And whilst on Lincolns we had the job of testing the new auto pilot. And one of the jobs that we had was to test it to see how it went and operated under bumpy conditions and low level. At that time everybody’s gradually getting demobbed and there were only two navigators on the squadron at one time, myself and the nav leader. And so anything that happened one of us had to go along. And the navi didn’t want to go on this particular trip so I went along and they said, well we went to the Met Office and, ‘Where can we find bumpy conditions at low level?’ They said, ’How about the Nile Valley?’ And sort of tongue in cheek we said, ‘Great. We’ll apply for it,’ and they accepted. And so we then, we flew out to the Canal Zone in the Middle East and to start with we used the autopilot as the bomb aimer had a control in the bomb aimer’s position for doing bombing runs. We did some bombing runs in the desert there. And then we flew low level along the Nile up to Khartoum. So around about fifty to a hundred feet mostly, up along the Nile with the autopilot in all the way. And then from Khartoum we flew to Nairobi and again at low level. Not quite so low because it was mainly jungle we were flying over. Whilst at Nairobi it was Battle of Britain Day and they asked us if we would do an air display for them which we were quite happy to do. We did that and then again flew back the way we came out and back to RAF Wyton. I remained on the squadron then until, it must have been about the end of 1948. ’47. And one of the other navigators on the squadron had been posted to RAF Coningsby as an instructor on Mosquitoes. And they wanted another instructor there because I had done an instructor’s course when I signed on. They wanted people to be instructors and he volunteered me against my will to go on to Coningsby to fly on Mosquitoes. And I turned up at Coningsby and our job there was to train the navigators in using GH which was a blind bombing radar device. Of course, we couldn’t show them in the aircraft because it only, only held two people. So we had an Anson Mark 19 fitted out with all the gear on it and we trained them on that. But I wasn’t too happy flying in Mosquitoes. You didn’t have a navigation table. You had a piece of board on your knees. Your chart was pinned on it with drawing pins and all your instruments were on pieces of string all around because if you dropped it you’d never find it again. I preferred the heavies. And the nav leader there said, ‘Well, you’re not happy on these are you?’ I said, ‘No. I’d rather go back to heavies.’ They then posted me to RAF Lindholme to do a course to go back on to them again. And when they found out I was a qualified instructor they were one short and they said, ‘Will you remain as an instructor on navigation?’ Which I was quite happy to do. And so there I was training people to use H2S which was a radar which showed a picture of the ground underneath you. It was very primitive compared with what there is now but we were doing that. And [pause] and I remained there until nearly 1950. And towards the end of that time the wing commander flying called me in and said was I interested in taking a commission? And I said, well yes I was. I’d got nothing to lost. And I filled all my papers in and waited and waited. Nothing happened. The wing commander called me into his office. He said, ‘Very sorry. Your application’s been lost.’
RP: Dear me.
PM: ‘Will you fill them in again?’ Which I did. I filled them in and waited, and waited and waited. Nothing happened. And again he said, ‘We’re awfully sorry,’ he said, ‘But they’ve been lost again.’ So I filled in a third lot and again I waited and waited. I was getting a bit upset now because to start with I had now finished my three years and I was on no contract whatsoever with the Air Force to remain in.
RP: And what rank were you at this time?
PM: At that time we were, our ranks had changed. We had air crew ranks.
RP: Yeah.
PM: And we were called navigator 2 which was the equivalent of a sergeant.
RP: Oh right. So here you are. It’s your third application. Does it go through?
PM: It was the third application. And at the same time I’d applied to sign on to do twenty two years in the RAF.
RP: Right.
PM: And again, I went and he said, ‘It’s been lost again.’ Well, I was getting a bit cross now and I said, ‘Sir, you can stick your commission. I will sign on ‘til I, to do twenty two.’ And he more or less agreed with it. We left it at that. And I then applied to do an advanced navigation course and I was accepted. And I went to RAF Shawbury and did the advanced navigation course. It was the most concentrated course I’ve ever done in my life, I think. In six weeks we went from basic algebra to spherical trigonometry and your head was absolutely buzzing. You had to learn about every piece of equipment you had in the aircraft. Not how to use it but how it was made and how it operated. And that took us about three months and then I was posted to RAF Swinderby as an instructor at an Advanced Flying Unit and then back on to Wellingtons again. And while I was in Lincoln I met my old nav leader who was at Scampton and he said, ‘They found your applications. They were all in the station commander’s office when it was the station commander’s home amongst newspapers when he was posted. And they found they were all there.’ Which made me a bit upset.
RP: Yeah. So they couldn’t, couldn’t initiate it from there then?
PM: No. No. So, I remained at Swinderby for, was it two, two years because that was the average time you stayed at any unit. And from there I was posted on to a ground course. Ground crew out in Germany to be at a fighter plotting unit. And when I got there the first thing they said to me, you know, ‘Well, have you trained on this?’ I said, ‘I haven’t.’ They said, ‘Well, you’re no good to us.’ So they sent me to RAF Oldenburg where they had a small mobile radar unit with a mobile plotting table and quite honestly it was a doddle because as a navigator you knew all the maps and so on. It was just a case of sitting at a table watching airmen pushing little arrows around. Much as you see on the Battle of Britain things. And I did that for two and a half years. And at the end of that I was posted back to England and I had to go to Air Ministry for them to decide where I wanted to go from there. By now I’d gone up a rank. I was now a flight sergeant as they’d brought back the old ranks again. And initially I said, ‘Well, can I go on helicopters?’ as my friend had gone on helicopters. They said, ‘Oh no. Not with your experience. How about Coastal Command?’ So, that will do me. And so I was posted then to RAF St Mawgan to train in Coastal Command and I did my basic training there and then was posted to Kinloss up in Scotland to train on the Shackleton Mark 1. And from there I was, when I finished the course I was posted to RAF St Eval where we had Shackleton Mark 2s. So I arrived on 42 Squadron in September of 1946. I went in to the orderly room to book in and the first thing they said to me, ‘Can you go overseas at a moment’s notice? Otherwise,’ he said, ‘We’ll send you to another squadron.’
RP: You said 46.
PM: Fifty.
RP: ’56. Yeah.
PM: ’56.
RP: I think Shackletons weren’t around then.
PM: No. They Weren’t. No. 1956.
RP: ‘56 yeah.
PM: And so, apparently the squadron had just been made the colonial policing squadron and this involved us going out to Aden for short terms. Well, my wife was heavily pregnant at the time but I didn’t tell them and I said, ‘No, it’s alright. I can go.’ And we then had to train from using the low level bombsight which the Shackleton was fitted with to using a high level bombsight which was the Bomber Command bombsight. And we spent several months dropping bombs on a practice range. And then the squadron was moving out there at four aircraft at a time. Four would go out to Aden and then as they were relieved by the other four that were back in St Eval. And it was in July of 1956, ’57 now that our crew was posted, was sent out to Aden. And we were not allowed to fly across the Arab countries because they refused us permission because they said we were going on a warlike mission against other Arab nations. And so we had to stow the guns inside the aircraft because we had two cannon in the nose of the Shackleton and we flew out first to Cyprus. From Cyprus we flew along the borders between Turkey and Syria, down through Iraq, down to Bahrain and from Bahrain we flew down across the desert over Muscat Omans area. Right down until we reached Aden. And [pause] and when we arrived in Aden the temperature was terribly hot. Forty degree plus. At times it was fifty degrees there. First several flights that we did were getting used to the area. We flew with one of the crews from one of the other aircraft because the maps were so poor there. There wasn’t any satellite navigation then and so you more or less had to make the maps up as you flew. And so we got to know the area we flew over. It was mainly along the Yemen border with Aden. And the idea was to, to look out for people that were coming across the borders and causing trouble. This was a sort of a pastime for them. They would come across the border, fire a few rounds off and go back home again. And we did this. I suppose [pause] living up in that area was an RAF intelligence officer. In fact, he lived just like an Arab. Dressed like an Arab. He even looked like an Arab. And he would, we would contact him and he would give us directions to fly to check on at certain areas. A couple of times we had to do some bombing runs. We had fourteen one thousand pound bombs and we had to drop these in areas where the RAF Venoms, they couldn’t reach because they would normally go with rockets. But the mountain, it was so mountainous there because most of it was six thousand feet. And down in the valleys the Venoms couldn’t get in so we would go and drop bombs where these intruders had gone in. A couple of occasions where they’d misbehaved they would go and warn them and drop leaflets and say at such and such a day at such and such a time we’re going to come and bomb your fields. And so they kept clear and then we’d go and we’d drop a stick of bombs across their fields to make them, to bring them back into line again. Then one Saturday morning we were called in and they said, ‘Right. You’ve got to go Bahrain immediately. Don’t know what for but get your kit and off you go.’ And so we got our kit and we flew up to Bahrain. Sunday morning they said, ‘Right, you’re going to fly over Muscat Oman. And you’re to go with a Pembroke pilot from here that will show you around the area.’ So we took off and we flew over to, near a place called Nizwa which was a large sort of town almost and in the centre of it was a very large circular fort. And there’d been an uprising. The Sultan’s brother had rebelled against him and we had an agreement with the Sultan that if he was in danger then the RAF or the British forces would go and, go and help him. So that’s what we were there for. The pilot of the Pembroke was showing us around and he took us up one valley. He said, ‘Well, you can turn around when you get to end and come back again.’ Well, you could in a Pembroke. But in a Shackleton no way. And when we got to the end there was this great cliff in front of us and with full power on we just managed to scrape over the top of it. So we decided we wouldn’t go up that valley again. And then our role then was to fly out every day and we were given certain villages to fly over. Some were friendly. Some weren’t. And we had to observe what they were doing. And this went on for about seven or eight days and in that time nothing seemed to be happening very much but we’d been building up. The army had flown in. The paratroopers had arrived at Bahrain and they were going to be flown out to an airfield which was on an oil well out in Muscat and they would march across the desert to attack from that side. And we were dropping leaflets all the time. We had different colour leaflets. I think it was white ones to drop to friendly areas and pink ones to drop to enemy areas. More or less telling them you know one was saying the Sultan was a good man. The other one was saying you’ve got to stop what you’re doing and come and join the Sultan. All that sort of thing. Anyway, on one of the trips we carried a group captain who was the senior air staff officer for Middle East Command. He wanted to see what was going on and again we had the leaflets to drop. And on one particular village, a place called Firq, which was just south of Nizwa it was a very small fort there and they said, ‘Right, you’ve got to drop these leaflets. They’ve got to go in the fort but they mustn’t go outside it.’ Well it’s not very easy when you’re dropping leaflets like that and so we decided we’d go in at about five hundred feet and drop these leaflets. And we were in the middle of dropping them and we felt like a ripple go through the aircraft. We realised we’d been hit by small arms fire. We were very lucky really because in the nose of the aircraft there were three of us. There was the bomb aimer, that was the other navigator in the nose, there was one of the sergeant signallers who was putting the leaflets down the flare chute and the group captain and a bullet came up. It hit the switch right underneath them, split it in half. Missed them all. One half went in and hit the co-pilot’s intercom box so it knocked it out completely. He didn’t know what was going on. And the other half later we dug out of a tin of sweets in the emergency rations. In the tail there was a tail lookout and the chap laid in the tail look out had a bullet go in by his shoulder and go out above his head. And we decided it was time to clear the area. And I remember our captain, he called up the two Venoms that were attacking another village up the road and said, ‘Watch this place. They’re sharpshooters.’ And one of them said, ‘Oh, I’ll save a rocket for them on the way back.’ And this group captain was on immediately, ‘No. No. No. No. They’ve got to be told first.’ As we were dropping leaflets telling them that they would be attacked the following day. And when we landed back at Bahrain we found there were other holes in the wings where again we were so lucky. Your wings are full of petrol and full of wires and it missed everything. Gone right through the wings in out through the top and nothing was damaged at all. And I remember they, they repaired the holes. They hadn’t have anything to repair them with so they used aluminium beer cans and riveted them over the holes. They were, the following day we took off again and we were told there we’d got to be there before eight in the morning and again go in low level, dropping leaflets telling them they would be attacked within half an hour. They weren’t too pleased about that. Anyway, we got there and we thought that we’d wake them up so we flew across firing our twenty mil cannon to make them keep their heads down. Then came back, dropped our leaflets and came home. We had to allow for the loss of ammunition and so we said we’d done some air sea firing on the way home to account for the ammunition and got admonished for wasting ammunition in that way. Anyway, the, the army did attack that day and the Venoms went in first with the rockets and attacked the fort and then the paratroopers moved in and they gradually drove them up. At Nizwa they’d got a tanker, a lorry which was the, been going from one of the oil wells. They had captured the crew of the tanker and had got them in this large fort and they had said if we attacked the fort they would hang them over the balconies. And we could actually see them there over because it was a big circular fort and we could see the chaps there so obviously we didn’t attack it. Eventually they did get in and they drove the rebels up in to Jabal Akhdar which was an eight thousand foot high mountain nearby and it finished up with the SAS going up the mountain and sorting them out. And that was the end of the sorties there. Before it actually finished the CinC Bomber Comm, the CinC Middle East Command ordered that we be sent back to Bahrain. He said, ‘Go back there and cool off.’ But if you can imagine cooling off in Bahrain. Anyway, we decided, well we didn’t decide we were sent back to Bahrain to have a so-called rest. And the next day we were told we’d got to go on a bombing raid and two aircraft were involved. One of the flight commander’s and our aircraft. And we loaded up with fourteen one thousand pound bombs and as the flight commander was taking off white smoke started pouring out of all four engines and he just managed to pull it to a halt at the end of the runway, and they cancelled the bombing raid. And they found that in the heat in Aden we used a thing called water metholated, water meth which gave increased power to the engines and this was injected in to the engines. And in the heat it had distilled out and it just put straight water into the engines and so it didn’t do them any good. And the following day we again, having found this out they changed all the water meth and we’d loaded. Loaded up again with the bombs and took off and we did the raid up in the hills. And a couple of days later we were sent back to Bahrain to assist because now they were carrying out bombing raids using, using small anti-personnel bombs. These were nasty little things. They went off above the ground. They had got loads of sprung steel in them and you got this spring steel going around which did a lot of damage to whoever they were dropped on. We didn’t like them particularly because they had a pressure fuse in them and occasionally, there was one occasion in fact where the bombs started going off and they set the bombs going off behind them and they almost went back up to the aircraft again. So we weren’t too happy about using them. I think they’ve now been banned from use because they’re considered not the right thing to use [pause] Then the length of time of time we stayed in Bahrain or in Aden depended on the number of hours the aircraft had flown. We were supposed to be up there for three months but we’d done so much flying over Bahrain from Bahrain that we had reached our target in about six weeks. And so again we had to fly home and [pause] and two aircraft were coming back to the UK. One was a flight commander and he took off just about twenty minutes in front of us and this time we were allowed to fly over the Arab countries because we weren’t going on a warlike mission. And so we flew down the Red Sea across the border of Abyssinia and then right across the Libyan desert, the Sahara Desert to a place called Castel Benito, which was an ex-Italian airfield. It took us about twelve hours I suppose to fly across there and we landed there and there was no sign of the flight commander who had gone in front of us. And about an hour later I bumped into the navigator from that aircraft. I said, ‘What happened to you?’ Oh, the flight commander was there as well. He said, ‘How did you get here before of us?’ And jokingly I said, ‘Stayed on track all the way, sir.’ Which didn’t go down too well because his navigator apparently, just after take-off, the flight commander came back to see, look at the charts, dropped a cup of water over his chart completely soaking it. And he’d picked it up and screwed it up and throwed it away when he realised he hadn’t have another chart. There wasn’t another one for that area. So he’d had to get it out, unscrew it, stretch it out and of course now it was all out of shape and apparently they got quite lost going across the desert and they landed about an hour after us.
RP: Not the right thing to say then. Yeah. He was still speaking to you afterwards.
PM: Oh yes. He did after. He was normally quite a decent chap but he blew his top a bit. Anyway, the following day we took off and came back to UK. While we were in Aden we were being relieved by 35 Squadron which had been based in Malta and that was going to go to Aden permanently and remain there. And so that was the end of the squadron’s flying out in Aden. We then returned to our normal Coastal Command duties. One of them of course was air sea rescue and quite often we got a call out to go after, to go over the Atlantic Ocean to assist [pause] Constellation aircraft. They had a habit of losing engines coming across the Atlantic and we would fly out at a thousand feet and they would be up at twenty thousand feet and we would call them up and they would say, you know, ‘Assist us,’ and so we would turn around and fly back again, and usually they had landed at Heathrow before we got back to St Eval because they were going a lot faster than us on three engines than we were doing on four. The end of my tour there the squadron commander called me in. He said, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I’m afraid that NCO navigators aren’t going to be employed on RAF operational squadrons anymore. So,’ he said, ‘Your time in Coastal is finished now.’ And he said, ‘What I have got here is, I’ve got a piece of paper that’s just come to me that says that they want volunteers to go and serve on Thor missiles as this is going to be the new Bomber Command. I suggest, I suggest you do that. At least you’re guaranteed a job then.’ So I thought about that. So I applied for this and I had to go to Air Ministry to be interviewed and the interviewer was a wing commander who I’d known as a flight lieutenant on 90 Squadron. So that was the end of the interview really. We just chatted and I was accepted and we then sailed across to, well we were busy. We were going to New York but we went on a Canadian Pacific ship. We went across to Montreal and our first stop was Quebec and then we sailed up the St Lawrence to Montreal. Beautiful river. Lovely day. And it was marvellous sailing along there. It’s a huge river because if you imagine there you’ve got these large ocean going liners and two of them could pass quite easily along the river. From there we got the train to New York where we were given a couple of days off and we managed to go up the Empire State Building while I was there. And then we got an aircraft to take us to Tucson in Arizona and it was a DC4. And it was supposed to land at Tucson Municipal Airport. Well. the pilot thinking as we were all RAF and we were all going to go eventually to [pause] we were going to be stationed at Davis-Monthan, which was a SAC base in Arizona. And so for some reason the pilot decided to land at Davis-Monthan. Well, SAC bases are very very security tight and an aircraft suddenly coming in which they’re not expecting they don’t go much on and they sent us over to the far side of the airfield. We were ringed with machine guns and first of all they wouldn’t let us out of the aeroplane. Well, it’s very hot in Tucson at the end of August, the beginning of September. And eventually they let us out but they surrounded us with the guards with machine guns. And eventually they sorted it out. Apparently, they’d been waiting for us at the municipal airport with a group of local dignitaries to greet us there.
RP: Right.
PM: And when they managed to sort it out it was only a case of driving through the gate because we were billeted just outside the main airfield in Davis-Monthan. We spent a month there learning about the missile. It was so new then they hadn’t actually fired one successfully. The instructor we had was on the previous course and that’s his knowledge was what he’d been told on the previous course there. But we, see we spent a month there and then we got sent on a Constellation to fly out to Los Angeles. And from there we went to [pause] from there we went to Vandenberg which was the main missile base in the States at that time and we carried on with the course there. We actually saw the missile for the first time but again they hadn’t fired one successfully. We saw various films of them taking off and then crash landing and exploding and so on but not one that actually worked. And when we’d finished the course there it was now December and they decided they would fly us back to New York and normally what happened you caught one of the Queens and they flew you, brought you back to UK. And when we got to New York it was freezing cold. When we’d left California we were in shorts. Eighty degrees. There was snow on the ground in New York and the temperature was minus goodness knows what. And it was like walking into a brick wall as you walked out of the aircraft with the change in the temperature. Anyway, they, they said, ‘Well, at the moment we can’t find any way to get you home so we’ll leave you in New York.’ We were abandoned there for ten days which was great. We were given ten dollars a day expenses to live in New York and we were billeted initially in the Governor Clinton Hotel. But they were expensive in there. They charged you four dollars a night just for the bed and then you had to pay for your breakfast and everything on top of that. And we found that the YM, you could do it for a dollar a night and so a number of us moved into the YM and stayed there. Of those who stayed at the Governor Clinton would tell us if anything had happened and they wanted us for going home. The beauty, while we were there is that we had American ID cards and so we could go into their [pause] they had a very good United Services Organisation there and you could go in there, show them your ID card and you’d get free tickets to any theatre in Broadway, any cinema in Broadway and through the day you could go on various tours. And I managed to go through the United Nations building on one tour. Another one they took us up inside the Statue of Liberty where you could climb right up to the top and the band around the Statue of Liberty’s head they are actually windows that you can look out. We were there for, as I say about ten days and then they managed to get Douglas DC6 to fly us home to the UK on Christmas Eve. And so we flew home. I managed to get a taxi home from London Airport as it was then. And so that was the end of my tour there. And from there I was posted to RAF Hemswell in Lincolnshire. That was the main base for the missiles. But there were a number of squadrons and each squadron was based at a different base. These were mainly the old wartime bases and I was sent to number 106 Squadron which was stationed at Bardney. Which again was a wartime airfield. But we still hadn’t got the missiles then. In fact, they were still building the site. The missile goes into a covered shelter and they hadn’t even got the shelters there. They were still putting in the rails for them to work on and it must have been six months or more before it was completed. And then the missiles started to arrive. They were flown over from the States in the large American aircraft. Then sent through the streets to the various sites. And when we’ve actually got them then we had to start the proper shift system because they had to be manned twenty four hours a day as the oil in the guidance system was so touchy that if the temperature changed the oil would solidify and would ruin the gyros which cost thousands of pounds to replace. And so we had to be there all the time with them. This meant manning twenty four hours a day as I say. And then we were put on a shift system where we’d do four days mornings, four days afternoons, four days nights. Four days off. This went on for ever and ever and ever. It was the most boring job in the world because you couldn’t do anything with a missile other than just watch it. Anyway, after a few months they asked me if I’d like to go to Hemswell, the main base to work in the main office there. The training office. And I said, ‘Yeah. I’m quite happy to do that,’ because it was nearer to where I was living. I was living on a caravan at the site at the time because we couldn’t get married quarters there. And so I went there and the role there was to doing, checking on the missiles because every now and again one of them would be selected and the crew would do a practice firing. This involved pumping liquid oxygen into the tank on the missile itself. It carried eighty six thousand gallons of liquid oxygen. And then it also had an eighty err seventy five gallons of fuel. And this was pumped in to a tanker because they didn’t want to get the two together to risk any chance that they might fire. The igniters were taken out so they couldn’t possibly fire. And we’d go through a practice countdown and our role was to go out and just check to see that they’d pressed the right switches and so on. This was much better. It was a more interesting job than I was doing before. Shortly after that I was promoted to master navigator which was warrant officer rank. And I did, I carried on doing that for two or three months. And then I applied to sign on ‘til I was fifty five. And again the letter that came back from Air Ministry did I want to take a commission? So I spoke to my wife and we thought about it and I said, ‘Well, what can I lose?’ I get a higher pension as a commissioned officer than I would as a warrant officer. But I get more respect as a warrant officer than I get as a commissioned. So we decided I’d try and go for the commission. And I went, I had to go to see the AOC, the air officer commanding the area to be interviewed by him. And the day before a corporal in our orderly room had gone up to see him so I said, ‘What did he ask you then?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘He wanted to know, because we’d been to America he wanted to know the American system of parliament. Or the equivalent of our parliament. He also, apparently he’d been the air officer in Pakistan and so he asked him about Pakistan. And so he said he also wanted to know who the various Commonwealth prime ministers were. So that night I did a quick check up on all those. I went and sat down in his office and he said, ‘Oh, yes,’ he said. Tell me, what’s the system in the States for their parliament sort of system.’ And I was able to explain it to him, you know. He said, ‘What’s the set up in Pakistan now?’ I said, ‘I think there’s been a coup recently and the army had taken over.’ ‘Who’s the prime minister of Canada? Who’s the prime minster of — ’ He said, ‘You seem to be very well read.’ He said, ‘That’s ok.’ That was the end of the interview. And then I went to Jurby again on the Isle of Man for three months to train as an officer. And at the end of that I qualified as a flying officer rather than a pilot officer the way most of them did because if you were a warrant officer you went up a rank. And the beauty of it was that you had to be paid more than a warrant officer got. And a warrant officer got more than a normal flying officer got. So I was on a higher rate of pay and the commission I had was called a branch commission which was especially for NCO aircrew and it, after three years you were automatically promoted to flight lieutenant. So at the end of the course I was then posted back to Coastal Command and I went up to Kinloss and there we now had Mark 3 Shackletons. And I had to do the course again. And the thing that did annoy me was that they insisted that I did a basic navigation training course again. And so I waited at Kinloss for a while. I was attached to 120 Squadron until I’d done this navigation course. They were doing several trips there and on one of them going to Gibraltar for the weekend. I said, ‘Well, can I come along with you?’ And they said, ‘Yeah, great,’ you know,’ you can. You’re welcome.’ And I said to one of the navigators, ‘Can I have a go on the table? Give me a chance to get my hand back in.’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure.’ And when I went to go the captain of the aircraft said, ‘Definitely not.’ He said, ‘You’ve haven’t done your refresher course yet.’ He said, ‘You can’t, obviously you can’t go on.’ So I thought fair enough. I went down the back of the aircraft. Got my head down. This was a night flight out there. And after about an hour someone woke me up and they said, ‘Would you come forward?’ So I said, ‘Yeah.’ And when I got forward both the navigators were sick. Would I take over? Which pleased me no end. And we’d only now were just sort of going down the Irish Sea. And so I managed to take over and sort of, sort out where I thought we were. And then that engine packed in and so we diverted into RAF St Mawgan. And while we were on the ground there the other two other navigators recovered themselves and so they took over and they flew it down to Gibraltar so I was a passenger then there and back. But it did amuse me a little bit. And anyway, I did the navigation course at Topcliffe and then back to Kinloss. Did the basic Coastal Command course all over again and then back on to 120 Squadron and there I became, we had first and second navigators. The senior navigator was the first navigator and the junior one was second navigator. I became the second navigator on a crew. The first navigator, he had already done a tour in Gibraltar and he, we were back on, under our normal coastal work which was surveillance of, the Russian fleet was always floating around somewhere in the North Atlantic and we kept surveillance on them. Russian submarines were continually turning up close to our shores and we would do surveillance on them. And also they had fishing boats which were absolutely covered with aerials. We called them ELINTS — Electronic Intelligence vessels and we would have to go out and try and locate them and when you’ve got somewhere three or four hundred Russian fishing vessels and the Russians they used the same type of fishing vessels for everything and so they were all exactly the same. But one of them would have all these aerials on them. You would have to find that one in amongst all this lot. And once you’d located it of course then you could keep track of it and see what it was doing. Once they were located they realised they’d been caught and they would sort of clear off. On one of the occasions we used to fly out quite often to Iceland and we’d do a patrol going up to Iceland. Then from Iceland we would patrol across to Bodo in Norway and have a couple of days on the ground in Norway and then another patrol back to Kinloss again. And on this occasion we were flying up to Iceland and we came across a Russian submarine support vessel which we reported back and when we landed in Iceland there was a great fuss on there because they hadn’t, didn’t realise it was in the area. Normally the Americans had sort of passed on the information but they didn’t even know it was there and our AOC in Scotland ordered us to take off as soon as we could to relocate it. Well, the following day there was a seventy five knot gale blowing at Iceland. The station commander had closed the station. He said it wasn’t safe to take off because it wasn’t down the runway. And our AOC ordered him to open the station up, to open up the disused runway which luckily was straight into wind and we were to take off. And so we did this and we couldn’t locate the aircraft err the ship on the way back. We went back to Kinloss. The following day we had another panic on. A Russian submarine had been located in the training grounds just off Northern Ireland where the navy did all their training with us and often they would join in the exercises. Anyway, they located this submarine right in the middle of it and four of us were ordered off that night to try and locate it and try to force it out of the area. And we’d been airborne about twenty minutes and the aircraft behind us we had a call, a mayday call, he’d got an engine fire and he was returning to Kinloss and the engine, they couldn’t put the fire out and it spread along the wing and set the second engine on fire. And he was, managed to get across over Inverness and he crashed it on Culloden Moor. In fact he crashed he said by the light from the flames from the engines he could see where he was going. And all the crew luckily got out. Now, that aircraft was the one that we’d flown in on the day before. It had only done twenty minutes flying from when we took off from Iceland. If it had happened the day before we wouldn’t have had a hope in hell because of the winds blowing like that. As I say there wouldn’t have been a hope in hell of us getting back anywhere. Anyway, we, one of our aircraft did locate the submarine and it was forced to the surface and it was escorted out of the area. We then had what was considered a jolly. We were going down to South Africa, to Cape Town and we were going to join because the South Africans also had Mark 3 Shackletons and we were going to do exercises with them. The British Navy was down there with their Navy and the American Navy and the American Naval aircraft were there as well. And we flew, this time we flew down to El Adem in North Africa, in Libya. From there we flew across the desert at night to Nairobi. From Nairobi we flew down to Salisbury or Harare as it’s called now. From Harare we flew to Ysterplaat which is the airfield just outside Cape Town where we were going to be based. And we did one exercise with the Navy and then we were going to do another one that night and our CO took one look at the weather, he said, ‘No. We’re not going. It’s a waste of time because the sea state would be so great that you wouldn’t be able to do anything anyway.’ And he decided to cancel the exercise but the South Africans, with their Mark 3s they decided no. They were going to go ahead and do it. Anyway, the next morning we’d had a tremendous gale in the night. In fact, it was hurricane that had gone through and we were immediately, we were called in immediately after breakfast and were told that the aircraft that had taken off was missing. They reckoned that the winds at six odd thousand feet were a hundred and fifty knots and they hadn’t heard from take-off. Anyway, we were the first aircraft to go and we were ordered to go and fly the route that he was supposed to have taken. And we flew out over the, the sea. I was getting winds of seventy five and eighty knots as we sort of went out. The sea was absolutely mountainous. There wasn’t a hope in hell of anybody surviving if it had gone down there sand we flew out and were airborne for about thirteen hours and found absolutely nothing and so we came back. And the following day they said there was a slight chance he might have gone down in the bay outside Cape Town. And two of our, two aircraft were ordered out to go and do a close search of the bay. Whilst there in fact we noticed what we thought might be some wreckage and the thing was if you saw anything like that you’d immediately divert the nearest merchant ship to go and pick it up. And we came across a large Japanese bulk carrier and we did the normal fly across the bows and put the engines up and down to attract his attention. He didn’t take the blindest bit of notice so we came back again and we fired green verey cartridges across the bow. No notice. We came back again with red cartridges this time. Took no notice whatsoever so it obviously wasn’t, I suppose there probably wasn’t anybody on the bridge. And when we landed back apparently he had been called in to Cape Town and they were heavily fined for not following the rules of the sea. Anyway, our CO as we were more conversant with air sea rescue we were given the sort of the control of what was going on and he got the tapes from the tower and listened to them and very very faint, “Mayday. Mayday,” shortly after take-off and they decided they would use a helicopter and go and look in the mountains just off Cape Town. And as they flew over the mountain they could see, they found the aircraft at the bottom of one of the valleys upside down. And the sonar buoys that we carried were bright dayglo orange and it was upside down. The bomb doors had burst open and so they could see these sonar buoys there so they knew immediately what it was. And of course all the crew had been killed. And they must have got into huge turbulence and it flipped the aircraft upside down and that was the end of that. Anyway, the South Africans decided to call the exercise off. And so we stayed there for a little bit longer. They managed to fly us down to Durban for the weekend. We went down there on one of the South African Dakotas. And then we flew home again.
RP: So what year was that?
PM: That was in 1963. Then we went back to our normal sort of surveillance work we were doing and I applied to do the weapons instructor’s course that was actually at Kinloss. And before I could go on that they sent me to RAF Uxbridge which is the RAF School of Education to do an instructor’s course. And I went there and I managed to qualify with an A2 instructor’s category and I went back to Kinloss, did the course as a weapons instructor and back on the squadron where I was made squadron weapons officer. I was then promoted flight lieutenant. And I then got a message through saying I was going to be posted to Malta. Shortly after that I got another message saying I was going to the Maritime Operational Training Unit as a weapon’s instructor. Apparently they had, when I completed the course they had called for me to join them. And so I went to the weapons course at St Mawgan, St Eval, no. Sorry, at Kinloss. And whilst on, on the Operational Training Unit they decided to move the two squadrons that were at St Mawgan up to Kinloss and the Training Unit down to St Mawgan. And so the whole lot had to be moved down to St Mawgan. And before we moved I was called in, they said, ‘Well, would you take over as chief weapons instructor when we move to St Mawgan?’ So I said, ‘Yeah, I don’t mind.’ So I took over and I went down to St Mawgan and we had to set the whole thing up again. All the training classrooms and so on. And I remained there until 1967 when I was posted to Singapore. Now, my wife said she didn’t want to go to Singapore because we’d recently bought a bungalow, the children were both settled in school for the first time because they’d been moved from school to school. So she decided she would remain at home and I didn’t fancy spending two and a half years on my own in Singapore. So they had a scheme whereby if you volunteered to go do, on an unaccompanied tour anywhere in the world it lasted for a year. So I volunteered for that. And they said right, they’d got a post at as ops officer in Labuan in Borneo. So I said that would do fine. And I got all my kit together and just about to go and the signal came through Labuan closed six months ago. And they didn’t know about it apparently. And so they stopped that one. So they said, ‘Well, how about Bahrain?’ So I said, ‘Yes. That would do me.’ Go to Bahrain. And that time they brought out a redundancy scheme for the Air Force had got what they thought were too many older officers. They wanted to get rid of them to make room for the younger ones coming up and so they brought this scheme in which really it was too good to turn down. I think I was, I was given a five thousand pound to leave plus full pension. So I decided I’ll leave. So I volunteered to go out on that and was accepted to leave and I spent another six months or so floating around at St Mawgan doing all sorts of odd jobs. One of them while I was there we wanted, they wanted an aircraft to go out to locate Sir Francis Chichester on his return from his round the world sailing. Because then there was no sat navs and so they had no contact with him. They knew roughly where he was. An aircraft from 42 Squadron was there and an aircraft from the MOTU. We took off to search for him and we were fortunate that we found him and we were able to direct the other aircraft to us because we had reporters on board and the reporters were not allowed to take any photographs until both aircraft were there so neither got the advantage over the other. But it gave me the advantage. I was able to take some photographs before they got the chance for them to do it. Anyway, as we say we located him but he was most upset at being located. Normally, you know, if you found people they would give you a wave when you flew past. But he just didn’t stand up. He didn’t wave. We dropped a message to him in a container welcoming him back and thanking, you know and saying what a good job he’d done. He watched it go past his boat. He didn’t even bother to pick it up. So I think he was most upset. He wanted to sneak in I think without having being seen. And so that was the end of that one and I think one of the last flights I did was on the Torrey Canyon. We were checking the oil that was coming out of that when it crashed at just off the Scilly Isles. And I didn’t know what to do when I came out of the Air Force. I did a computer course at Camborne in Cornwall and it was to train to programme computers but then I realised that there were only two computers in the whole of Cornwall at that time. One, the one we were using was at County Hall and the other was at John Keay House in the China clay industry. So the chances of getting a job there were nil and I didn’t want to leave Cornwall. Cornwall. And so one of the other chaps who was leaving with me, he said he’d applied to train as a teacher at St Luke’s in Exeter. He said, ‘Why don’t you come and, you know try that?’ So, I said, ‘Well, I left school at fourteen. They won’t want to know me there.’ Anyway, he said, ‘Well try it.’ And I went and the principal there was an ex-wing commander navigator.
RP: So you were made. So, I think we finished your RAF career so we might need to bring it to an end there. But did you, just to round it off did you finish your sort of working career as a teacher then?
PM: As a —?
RP: As a teacher.
PM: Yes.
RP: You stayed then.
PM: Well, I’m saying I taught for ten years.
RP: Yeah.
PM: And then I decided I’d had enough again at fifty five they said you could retire. So I took early retirement from that.
RP: Very nice.
PM: And bought a small holding.
RP: Well, that’s, I mean that’s a fascinating, a fascinating career and I say thank you very much for that. I’m just amazed they were still training you as VE day approached but I suppose you were lucky in a way that you didn’t have to go on ops and you could —
PM: No
RP: You looked forward to a full career in the RAF.
PM: Yeah. It was, because you don’t know how you would react to going on ops. The chap that you should have interviewed, that is a chap called Ted Frost. A friend of mine. He did fifty seven ops. DFC. And I said to him, ‘Have they been in touch with you?’ ‘No he said. They haven’t asked me about it.
RP: Oh, well I’ll take the details if you like.
PM: So I can give you Ted’s telephone number.
RP: Absolutely. No. That’s the sort of people I, I would just like to, we’ll just finish this and I’ll say thank you very much, Peter. It’s been fascinating.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Peter Morris
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Rod Pickles
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-10
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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AMorrisPG171010, PMorrisPG1701
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:07:03 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Description
An account of the resource
Peter Morris lived through the East End blitz. He joined the ATC as soon as it was established and applied to join the RAF as aircrew. He was accepted for training as a navigator. While waiting for a course he was part of a group that was sent to repair bomb damage from the V-1 attacks and was then sent to support the armourers at RAF Waterbeach by working on the bomb dump. Peter finished his training just as VE day was celebrated and then was sent to prepare for the Far East just before VJ Day. Peter became an instructor and was also posted on to Coastal Command where he took part in air sea rescue operations.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Bahrain
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
United States
California
California--Vandenberg Air Force Base
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
1946
106 Squadron
120 Squadron
42 Squadron
90 Squadron
air sea rescue
aircrew
bombing
bombing up
ground personnel
incendiary device
Lancaster
Lincoln
navigator
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Kinloss
RAF St Eval
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Wyton
Shackleton
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/99/931/PArcherSW1602.1.jpg
87a3177e6df6f787827dfda1d3ac8608
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/99/931/PArcherSW1603.1.jpg
e269558e45ca0ae88452aef3287c743d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Archer, Stanley
S Archer
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Description
An account of the resource
18 items. The collection concerns the career of Flight Sergeant Stanley Archer. He originally trained as a fitter and served in Fighter Command before re-mustering as a flight engineer and flying operations with 97 Squadron from RAF Woodhall Spa. The collection includes a memoir, a joke medal, an engine test report, a diagram of constant speed units, three operation honours cards and 11 photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemarie Da Costa and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Archer, S
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-29
Access Rights
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bombing up Lancaster S-Sugar
Description
An account of the resource
Side view of Lancaster R5868, being bombed up. In the foreground three trolleys full of bombs. Aircraft is under maintenance with two airmen on the wings and one in the pilot’s seat. Symbols indicating numerous operations on nose of aircraft. Four other airmen are preparing the aircraft for the bomb loading operations. On the reverse ‘S. Sugar now at Hendon'.
Format
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One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PArcherSW1602, PArcherSW1603
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
467 Squadron
bomb trolley
bombing up
ground crew
ground personnel
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
nose art
service vehicle
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/154/1947/PWatsonD1508.2.jpg
7b8def1879937aabc11801f6b214057d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Watson, Don
D Watson
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Don Watson (1448934 Royal Air Force) and four photographs relating to Don Watson's wartime service with 61 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Don Watson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Watson, D
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster and its bomb load
Description
An account of the resource
Lancaster 'N' with pilot at the controls looking out of the open cockpit window. At the nose are trolleys with bombs being prepared by seven armourers. Six aircrew wearing Mae Wests are standing behind the bomb trolley. A tractor and buildings are in the background.
Format
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One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWatsonD1508
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
aircrew
bomb trolley
bombing up
ground personnel
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 3
pilot
service vehicle
tractor