3
25
369
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/406/7051/PNortonSC1503.2.jpg
a8c1d86f53d1b586e6721cd3b13de6de
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Caterpillar badge
Description
An account of the resource
A Caterpillar Club brooch.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One gold metal brooch
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Artwork
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PNortonSC1503
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
bale out
Caterpillar Club
heirloom
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7916/LGodfreyCR1281391v10053.2.jpg
3edf4be2076177211afaa081250faa7a
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7916/LGodfreyCR1281391v10054.2.jpg
27ba9935bee2bfc31e5a9a08dfd97dfd
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7916/LGodfreyCR1281391v10055.2.jpg
727071403e65aeecf9434a4ff6936e57
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
RAF Lossiemouth S/L Ian Willoughby Bazalgette
33 [indecipherable text] DFC
Flight Commander
Deputy RAM Palmer
Left [indecipherable text] April 1944
F/O Scot Goddard Nav F/O [indecipherable text] Hibberd Bomb Aimer
37 on [indecipherable text] Church F/O Godfrey
F/O Cameron DFM ex F/Sgt Middleton’s VC rear Gunner
Joined at PFF Navigation Training met by
Sgt George Turner then on Sqdn by F/Lt Colonel Hewnell mid upper
6/5/4 first op as nav
During May 5 and June 7 night ops
In July Daylight and night ops 12
ND950’ ‘M’ Mother
Last week in July
23 Kiel
24 Shaltgent
25 Shaltgent
Pinch [indecipherable text] and Molinbihe
28 Hamburg
4 August 1944 Should have gone on leave
F/L Henson missing – Oxford to York
One crew required Sg volunteered – got one
more in before leave
Daylight to [indecipherable text]
Took T for Tommy mislead of M mother
Crew conference at dispersal - decided
to go in at 6000 feet main force up
at 12000 feet.
[page break]
F/Lt Beocridge (DMB) shot down by
flack going into target
Nearing target hears Ack-Ack
Shell penetrated starboard wing both
engines spluttered to standstill
Bomb aimer wounded
[page break]
Godfrey last to leave aircraft
G Goddard put a foot on him and out
he went. Landed in tree.
I landed in cornfield – stripped
[indecipherable text] hid parachute under corn
[indecipherable text] Lay under hedge – rather shocked
Lancaster hit deck two fields ahead
exploded on landing down.
Village of Senartes Maire of village
helped us – in [indecipherable text] with us a few
minutes of landing. Lay in potato
bed all afternoon while Germans
searched for survivors – waited till
darkness into house for meal. Slept at
gendarmes house - [indecipherable text] … … moved by horse and
cart to Foron near Chappelle aux Pots
No English – laying sunbathing alongside
Railway line – Thunderbolts beat up train
SS troops moved back. Moved to
forest for 10 days – [indecipherable text] to lay on
food from 3 farms. Heavy rain
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Godfrey's operations notes
Description
An account of the resource
Lists of crew and positions with some extra notes. First operation as crew 6 May 1944. Night operations May and June. July targets included Kiel, Stuttgart, Hamburg. Mentions crews missing. Daylight operationd to Trossy St Maximin and provides some description of operation. Mentions aircraft shot down and own aircraft hit by anti aircraft fire. Describes jumping last and landing in tree and escaping. Also evasion activities including sunbathing alongside railway when it was attacked by a P-47 Thunderbolt.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three page handwritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGodfreyCR1281391v10053, LGodfreyCR1281391v10054, LGodfreyCR1281391v10055
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Criel-sur-Mer
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Germany
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Hamburg
France--Creil
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-05-06
1944-06
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-28
1944-08-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Claire Monk
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
C R Godfrey
bale out
bombing
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
evading
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
P-47
shot down
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/83/7959/NStaffelP160412.1.jpg
2b197c0380715905d5a47d374433a961
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cochrane, Donald Harvin
Donald Harvin Cochrane
D H Cochrane
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Great Britain. Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
13 Items. The collections concerns Donald Harvin Cochrane DFM (1926 - 2010, 1395422, Royal Air Force) and consists of his log book, letters, service material, photographs and a memoir. Donald Cochrane completed 29 operations as a wireless operator with 460 Squadron <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Pamela Ann Staffel and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br />
<p>This collection also contains items concerning Colin Farrant. Additional information on Colin Farrant is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/107397/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.</p>
<p> </p>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cochrane, DH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Two boys, friends, flew to the war
[Photograph]
Sgt. Donald Cochrane, youngest airman to win the D.F.M., and (below) his friend, Colin Farrant, who is missing, believed killed
[Photograph]
News Chronicle Reporter
BARNET (Herts), Monday.
Two boys, only a few months out of school, met in this market town one afternoon in 1941. Together they went to London to join the R.A.F. They were both 15.
At Buckingham Palace tomorrow morning one will shake hands with the King when he is invested with the D.F.M. – youngest airman to win it. The other boy is missing, believed killed during a raid on Essen.
Sgt. Donald Cochrane, D.F.M., is 25, according to Air Ministry records. Tonight, at his home here, Cochrane, a veteran flier at 19, told me the story of two 15-year-olds who were determined to fly.
“Colin Farrant and I joined the Barnet Air Defence Corps together and later became cadets in the Barnet 189 Squadron, A.T.C.,” he said.
Said they were 18
“In 1941, when we were both 15 – Colin was eight days older than I was – we decided to try to get into the Air Force. At breakfast one morning I asked my parents what they thought about it. They didn’t take it very seriously.
“That afternoon Colin and I went into London, entered the R.A.F. recruiting office, stated that we were 18, and were accepted.”
The boys trained at different places and both became wireless operators. In 1944, when 17, still under age, they began operational flying in Lancasters.
“The news that Colin was missing on operations came to me before I made my first raid,” Sgt. Cochrane said. “It was a big blow.”
Hit over Frankfurt
When he was still 17 and on his fourth bombing raid, a night fighter sprayed his Lancaster over Frankfurt. His operations log for that night reads:
“March 22, 1944. Airborne 1900 hours. ‘Q’ for Queenie. Ops. 4. Frankfurt. Shot up by night fighter over target area. Mid-upper gunner baled out. Rear gunner wounded.”
That is the extent of his report for a night’s work which made him the youngest D.F.M. The plane was nearly uncontrollable: Cochrane saved two of the crew by parting with his own oxygen apparatus and helping the pilot to bring the plane home.
“I must have been scared the whole time,” he said, “but I didn’t realise it until we got home. Then I really was scared.”
His hands had been burned extinguishing flames, but a few nights later he was on ops again.
“Young rascals”
“They were young rascals and gave us a lot of worry,” said Mrs. Cochrane tonight. “I would sit at home, thinking of what they were doing and wanting to write to the Air Ministry so that they would be discharged.
“My husband and I talked it over many times. But we let things go. It was what Don wanted, and we decided that we could not interfere.”
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Two boys, friends flew to the war
Description
An account of the resource
The loss of Colin Farrant and the award of a Distinguished Flying Medal to Donald Cochrane are reported in a newspaper article. They were friends who joined up together at the age of 15. Colin Farrant went missing on an operation to Essen. Donald Cochrane assisted his crew when they were attacked, helping the pilot to get the aircraft back safely.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One newspaper cutting
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
NStaffelP160412
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
News Chronicle
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1944-03-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
Distinguished Flying Medal
fear
killed in action
Lancaster
missing in action
shot down
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/83/7962/BCochraneDHCochraneDHv1.1.pdf
c590ca2ff03c75171cd75ddcc2b2aea0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cochrane, Donald Harvin
Donald Harvin Cochrane
D H Cochrane
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Great Britain. Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
13 Items. The collections concerns Donald Harvin Cochrane DFM (1926 - 2010, 1395422, Royal Air Force) and consists of his log book, letters, service material, photographs and a memoir. Donald Cochrane completed 29 operations as a wireless operator with 460 Squadron <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Pamela Ann Staffel and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br />
<p>This collection also contains items concerning Colin Farrant. Additional information on Colin Farrant is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/107397/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.</p>
<p> </p>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cochrane, DH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[exercise book logo]
[page break]
(1)
Sgt Donald Harvin Cochrane
1395422
I am Wireless Operator on aircraft in “B” flight of 460 squadron RAAF. On the night of the 22/23nd [sic] of March 1944 while proceeding on operations in aircraft “Q” (ND392) to Frankfurt, we were attacked by an enemy fighter, and hit by both cannon and machine gun fire, which cut away the rudder controls, and trim controls, also 3 cannon shells going into the rear turret, injuring [sic] the rear gunner. The captain instructed me to go to the rear of the aircraft and investigate the welfare of the gunner. Having already called them
[page break]
(2)
up on the intercommunication and getting no reply.
When I got to the rear I found the mid-upper gunner half out of his turret in a semi-conscious condition and hanging by his oxygen tube, I released him from his hanging position and at the same time dropped my torch, having then to go foreward [sic] and get another torch. When I got back to the mid-upper gunner again, he was holding himself up with his parachute on. He had removed his helmet and after some trouble managed to replace it. I [deleted] could then s [/deleted] then realized that he was nearly passing out through
[page break]
(3)
lack of oxygen, so I immediately gave him my emergency oxygen bottle, after which I had to go forward again for oxygen for myself. As soon as I obtained another oxygen bottle I went aft [deleted] again [/deleted] to attend to the gunner again, only to find that the main entrance door was open and the mid-upper gunner missing. I then carried on to the rear gunner, but on the way discovered a fire smouldering on the port side of the fuselage, which I managed to put out with my hands. I then carried on to the rear gunner, who I found leaning back against the
[page break]
(4)
half of the turret doors [deleted] when [/deleted] that had not been blasted [deleted] again [/deleted] away when the cannon shells exploded. On a closer inspection of the rear gunner I thought I could see the place where a cannon shell had hit the base of his spine, and therefore presumed him dead, then as I could feel myself slipping away through lack of oxygen I made my way back up front as best I could, when I had partly recovered I reported the whole thing to the captain. The whole incedent had occurred over the target area. A little while
[page break]
(5)
latter [sic] the bomb aimer went back to the mid-upper turret to see if it was still serviceable about an hour and a half latter [sic] I went back to see if he was still okay and found him sitting on the rest bed, I took him up to my position and gave him my oxygen, and for the rest of the trip he remained in my seat. We the[sic] made the trip back to base as best we could, and after landing we discovered much to our relief that the rear gunner was still alive and able to speak. We learnt afterwards that if we had
[page break]
(6)
moved the rear gunner he would [deleted] have [/deleted] probably have died from loss of blood as it was the blood froze over the wound.
[page break]
(7)
30th, the trip where we had the greatest loses of the war, losing 96 aircraft. This trip for us though was quite a quiet one, although right across the continent, our whole course was lit up by the lights on the ground, and every now and again we saw [deleted] an [/deleted] aircraft going down, nothing came anywhere near us. I am perfectly certain that from the way our whole course had been lit up, that information had leaked through to the enemy as to where we were going that night and the route we were taking.
The day after returning from
[page break]
(8)
that op, we went on leave, a leave that I think we fully earned, and deserved.
during [sic] that leave I had a really good time, for I still had it fresh in my memory that ops were a very risky business, and as I always have done believed in having a good[deleted] experience [/deleted] time while I had the chance. When the time came to [deleted] come [/deleted] go back to camp, I felt very reluctant to do so. I was that “Browned Off” that at lunch time before I went back I refused to drink more than a pint of beer. When on the train to go back to camp, as it started to move out of the station I had a good look out of
[page break]
(9)
the window at home, for I was quite positive at the time that I should never see it again.
The next op we did was to Cologne, a trip that very little of importance happened, heavy defences at Koln itself, but other than that nothing to worry about.
The night after that we had a sqdn[sic] party, where everyone was invited, and best of all FREE BEER, well from 8 o-clock when I arrived with my own glass, pinch[sic] from the Sergeants Mess, as you had to bring your own glass, myself and the crowd of chaps I was usually with, were queing[sic] up, filling our glasses, [deleted] and [/deleted] walking round to the
[page break]
(10)
end of the queue drinking the beer on the way down and filling up again. That went on for about 2 to 2 1/2 hours, after which the beer ran out, but I think I had had enough to drink [deleted] At [/deleted] to last me the rest of the night. The next morning I woke up with a terrible hang over, only to find that ops were on again that night. At briefing time we found that it was again to the [deleted] m [/deleted] ruhr, a place where we had learnt [deleted] it [/deleted] to pray for cloud, for they had too many searchlights for our or anybody else’s liking. Well that night we went to Dusseldorf. It was one of the nights where there was no cloud. On the way across enemy territory we saw no signs of fighters [deleted] or [/deleted] flak or searchlights, but as we approach our target, we saw the [deleted] whole [/deleted]
[page break]
(11)
[deleted] st [/deleted] searchlights begin to spring up, one or two to begin with, then in their 10’s and before long the whole sky seemed to be one blasé of light. We carried no to the target and drop our bombs successfully, we then turned our nose for home and got out of the searchlight [deleted] over [/deleted] areas as quick as possible. It was not long then before we saw home sweet home again.
We arrived back at our drome at about 3-30 in the morning and as usual we were one of the first, but never the less there were still quite a few in at interrogation before us, so we had to wait about
[page break]
(12)
half an hour before our turn came, but as soon as we were seated, the interrogation officer started asking his usual questions, and we gave [deleted] a [/deleted] our usual answers, that we had neither seen nor heard anything for all we were thinking about at that time in the morning, was to get to bed, and we knew that the less we had to report, the quicker we should our thoughts fulfilled. [deleted] W [/deleted]
We eventually got to bed about 4-30 and slept until[sic] about 5 in the [deleted] fo [/deleted] afternoon. Then seeing as there were no ops on that night, we dressed up in [deleted] a [/deleted] our best togs, and went out to Grimsby to have our
[page break]
(13)
few drinks that we figured we were entitled to.
The following night, we were on ops once again, this time to Karlsruhe.
We took off at about 9-30 PM, and as we had been told at briefing we met dirty weather, although at briefing they told us that we might miss it with a bit of luck. It turned out a lot worse though than we had expected. We were somewhere just over the French coast when it hit us. Clouds, rain, snow, sleet and ice. At the time we were somewhere up at about 18 thousand feet, at first we tried to climb over it, but found that it was imposible[sic], as
[page break]
(14)
it was going up to somewhere between 30 & 35 thousand feet. So we started to decend[sic] below it, but we had not got down far before our port outer engine stopped because of the ice gathering round it, it was not much longer before three of them had stopped, when we were down at about 7 thousand our only remaining engine began to splutter, we were just about ready to bail out when we got below freezing level, and one of other engines picked up again, [deleted] before [/deleted] not long after that everything was going merrily again, and we were climbing like the clappers, to gain height
[page break]
(15)
again before [deleted] I [/deleted] reaching the target, having at last past through the bad weather and out in the open again. After that everything was plain sailing up to the target which we made quite a nice mess of. On the return journey we again ran into bad weather, but it was nothing like what we had experienced on the outward journey, and we passed through it without anything more than a few sparks running up and down our aerials, happening to us, [deleted] A [/deleted]and so on back safety to base again.
Just as a matter of interest, the bomb aimer told me later, that while we were passing through the storm going out, he
[page break]
(16)
was quite enjoying himself watching sparks flashing from the end of his fingers to the perspex in the nose, by [deleted] the [/deleted] him being able to do that, it will give you some idea of the intensity of the [deleted] of the [/deleted] electricity in the storm.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Donald Cochrane's memoir
Description
An account of the resource
A detailed account of when his Lancaster 'Q', ND392, was attacked by an enemy aircraft. He repeatedly travelled the length of the aircraft to assist the air gunners.
The second part describes an operation when a great number of aircraft were lost but his aircraft experienced little enemy activity.
After a spell of leave which he thoroughly enjoyed, his next operation was to Cologne. This was followed by a night of free beer in the Sergeant's Mess.
The next operation was to Dusseldorf and there were large numbers of searchlights but they suffered no damage.
The next operation was to Karlsruhe in terrible weather. Ice caused three engines to stop and they could only hold 7000 in the clouds. The warmer air allowed the engines to restart and they managed to bomb successfully and return home.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Donald Cochrane
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
16 handwritten pages
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BCochraneDHCochraneDHv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-03-22
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
Andy Hamilton
460 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
Lancaster
searchlight
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/8000/MGodfreyCR1281391-151118-08.2.jpg
0e4002ec544ca3a85162c0c172cb4d16
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Godfrey's Caterpillar Club membership card
Description
An account of the resource
Card with Irving Caterpillar Club certificate of membership for Flying Officer C R Godfrey signed by hon sec European division.
Format
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One printed card
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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MGodfreyCR1281391-151118-08
Coverage
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Civilian
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
bale out
Caterpillar Club
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/8022/PGodfreyCR1533.1.jpg
3edbd8dd03e47306e5b9702b369d87b6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Medal case with caterpillar badge
Description
An account of the resource
An empty medal case with caterpillar badge
Format
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Medal case and metal badge
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Physical object
Physical object. Decoration
Physical object
Identifier
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PGodfreyCR1533
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
bale out
Caterpillar Club
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/459/8034/BNorthGJNorthGJv1.1.pdf
e2ed89186df7c2effb65cb00cef77577
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
North, Geoffrey John
North, G J
North, Johnny
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Geoffrey John 'Johnny' North, DFC, (173836, Royal Air Force) who served as a rear gunner on 428, 76 and 35 Squadrons flying Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He was called up in 1940 from his job as a tailor in Saville Row where he returned after the war. He was shot down on an operation to Duisburg on 21 February 1945. The collection contains his logbook, an account of his shooting down, capture and time as a prisoner of war, including documentation, forced march to another camp in 1945, liberation and repatriation. The collection includes membership documents for Royal Air Force Association, Pathfinders Association and Caterpillar Club as well as personnel documentation, Pathfinder badge correspondence and photographs of crew and squadron as well as other memorabilia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Carole Bishopp and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-20
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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North, G
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PART I
I WANDERED
LONELY AS A
CLOUD !!
21/2/45. Baled out 23.05 landed
23.20. S/C 23.59 walked 12 miles.
22/2/45 Captured 10AM by Civil Police.
10/12 Police Station. 12/2 Jail, 2/6 Motorbike
to front line. Watch etc taken. Marched 8
miles via transit camp with 8 soldiers to
[undecipherable] village. Slept in stairs in
abandoned school.
23/2/45 First Food, Bread Marg. Tinned Meat
Tea. Marched 14 miles via Rhine Ferry to
Transit Camp. Lt Lindsey.
24/2/45 [undecipherable] Horse & Cart to Stalag
at Barchalt. 5 to a cell, radiator, [undecipherable]
& 1 blanket. Comfort!
[Page Break]
25/2/45 Barchalt. 26/2/45 Barchalt
27/2/45 Barchalt to Hansdorf Marched 8
miles through [cross out] Munster.
28/2/45 Left Hansdorf 1/3/45 Travelling
2/3/45 Travelling, Kassell, Legless Aussie
3/3/45 arrived Obereusel. 4/5/45 Obereusel.
5/3/45 Obereusel 6/3/45 Left Obereusel.
7/3/45 Arrived Dulay Luft. 1st Shower,
Food, Beds, Clothing. Soap, Hair Cut, etc.
8/3/45 Left Dulay,
9/3/45 Train Bombed at Niederhausen [inserted] By USA MARAUDERS [/inserted]
Walked 5 k’metre to Eppstein.
10/5/45 Eppstein. 11/5/45 Left Eppstein
at night. travell [crossed out]] 12/3/45 Travelling
13/3/45 Travelling 14/3/45 Travelling
15/3/45 Arrived Stunlayer Thank God!
[Page Break]
PARTII THE TREK
4/4/45 Left Kreigsgefangenenlager der Luft III
on the march. Slept in Pine Wood
5/4/45 Divebombed [inserted] BY USA THUNDER BOLTS [/inserted] Reached outskirts of
Neumarht @1500. Raining at 1800
[undecipherable] at 2300.
6/4/45 Fell in @ 02.00 marched in Rain
till 0600. Slept in pine wood in the
rain. S/C 10.00. Reached Barching Stadt
Ground Bread Honey Tinned Meat, Traded
for bottles & matches. Slept church.
7/4/45 Left column fort before [undecipherable]
Bathing Pond
8/4/45 Lift to top of hill. Walked on
alone caught up column, Frosty.
9/4/45, With column all day. Issued
[Page Break]
Parcel at Nieustadt. Bridge mined.
10/4/45 Stayed near Nieustadt all day with
sick. Wizard Farm, Lau Joe Darky Ben Eggs., all our aim.
11/4/45 French Parcel. Bullock Waggon
for 11 k’ometres. Break at midday, forts
bombing all round us.
12/4/45 Stayed in same village, Lau Green, Joe
Darley, Ben Chris & Me. Orchard.
13/4/54 Refined Mess Party on the
road Marched 5 K’metres
14/4/45 stayed put all day, old lady no trade
15/4/45 Stayed Put.
16/4/45 Marched 10 K’metres to Pfeffenhausen.
Kimi and myself. Large Spud issue
17/4/45 Marched 10 k’metres to Obermunchen
3 Eggs. 20 French Fags
18/4/45 Left Obermunchen 17.00 marched 7
K’metres to Naider Munchen
[Page Break]
PART II CONTD
19/4/45 Stayed Naider Munchen. Acquired
a new bottle.
20/4/45 Marched 8 k’metres. Arrived
Maasburg.
[Page Break]
PART III
KRIEGIE No MORE
29/4/45 Fighting heard @ 09.00. Stars
& Stripes raised in camp at 12.30. Tank
& Jeeps in compound @14.30.
1/5/45 Issue White Bread, Flour, Good
[undecipherable] Kiwi acquired Frying Pan.
Rhubarb
2/5/45 Rice + Rhubarb Pancakes.
3/5/45 Doughnuts
4/5/45[undecipherable] + Mirror Pictures Rhubarb
Potatoes, Killed Pig.
5/5/45 Wood from house. Celery Onions
& Parsnips acquired. Pork Chops & chips
for breakfast.
[deleted] 6/5/45 pork chop and chips [/deleted]
[Page Break]
6/5/45 Pork chops, Roast and Mashed spuds
Parsnips, Plum Pudding. Killed a
Rabbit. Announced 10,000 leaving
Tomorrow
7/5/45 Breakfast Pork chop and chips,
Deloused. Rabbit Stew. Corned Beef
Hash Prunes & Toothpaste blancmange
8/5/45 Kiwi & Tom left @ 05.30, Fried Eggs
Spam Spuds & bread, Cereal. Victory Fudge
Moved out @ 5minutes notice left camp at 13.15
Lorry to Landshut airfield. Back to Landshut &
in billet @1800. K Rations, Bouillon, corned
Pork Roll, Plum Pudding. German Beer!!!
9/5/45 Ham & Egg Toast & Marmalade. Airfield
All day, Landshut Bouillon, Canned Pork Loaf
& Spam and Tomatoes.
16/5/45 Shredded Wheat, Ham & Eggs, LT.
HARRINGTON DAKOTA B 09.35 2.25
[Page Break]
PART III Cont’d
To Rheim. Lorry to Camp. Meal Corned
Beef Peas and Potatoes Peaches Coffee, Lorry
To Juviencourt w/o BELIVEAU. Lancaster
18.25
W 01.35 to Westcolt.
11/5/45 00.30 Lorry to Leighton Buzzard. Train
to Cosford. Registration Telegram Bath [deleted] Bed [/deleted]
& Breakfast & bed. 14.00 – 17.00 Doc
Clothing etc.
12/5/45.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Geoffrey North account of being shot down and time as prisoner of war
Description
An account of the resource
A day by day account consisting of three parts. Part one covers his being shot down on 21 February 1945, his capture and journey to prisoner of war camp arriving 15 March 1945 including an mention that his train was bombed by Marauders. Part two covers forced march from prisoner of war camp 'Kreigsgefaninenlager der Luft 3' from 4 April 1945 to to Moosburg on 20 April 1945 and includes account of being strafed by Thunderbolts. Part three covers liberation by United States army on 29 April 1945 to his repatriation by C-47 and Lancaster on 10 May 1945. In part 3 he writes enthusiastically about the meals and food. The account is written on American red cross paper.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Geoffrey North
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Eight page handwritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BNorthGJNorthGJv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Bocholt
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Oberursel
Germany--Eppstein im Taunus
Germany--Neustadt an der Weinstrasse
Germany--Moosburg an der Isar
Germany--Landshut
France
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Aylesbury
England--Bedfordshire
England--Leighton Buzzard
England--Shropshire
England--Telford
France--Reims
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-02-21
1945-02
1945-03
1945-04-04
1945-04
1945-04-29
1945-05
1945-05-10
1945-05-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Claire Monk
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
bale out
C-47
Dulag Luft
Lancaster
military living conditions
Operation Exodus (1945)
prisoner of war
RAF Cosford
shot down
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/459/8035/BNorthGJNorthGJv2.2.pdf
e93160163154f39a8cee009159ed8663
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
North, Geoffrey John
North, G J
North, Johnny
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Geoffrey John 'Johnny' North, DFC, (173836, Royal Air Force) who served as a rear gunner on 428, 76 and 35 Squadrons flying Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He was called up in 1940 from his job as a tailor in Saville Row where he returned after the war. He was shot down on an operation to Duisburg on 21 February 1945. The collection contains his logbook, an account of his shooting down, capture and time as a prisoner of war, including documentation, forced march to another camp in 1945, liberation and repatriation. The collection includes membership documents for Royal Air Force Association, Pathfinders Association and Caterpillar Club as well as personnel documentation, Pathfinder badge correspondence and photographs of crew and squadron as well as other memorabilia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Carole Bishopp and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-20
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
North, G
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GEOFFREY JOHN NORTH. REAR GUNNER.
PART 1. “I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud”.
21/2/45 20.05 [inserted] R [/inserted] LANCASTER F/LT TROPMAN D.F.C. REAR GUNNER. OP.DUISBERG.
21.02.45. Bailed out at 23.05, landed 23.20 S/C 23.59.
Walked 12 miles.
22.02.45 Captured 10 am by civil police. 10.12 police station. 12.02 jail. 14.06 motorbike to front line. Watch etc. taken. Marched 8 miles via transit camp with 8 soldiers to burning village. Slept on straw in abandoned school.
23.02.45. First food – bread, marg, tinned meat, tea. Marched 14 miles via Rhine Ferry to transit camp. Lt. Lindsey - ? one of “Geoff’s” crew.
24.02.45. Soup! Horse and cart to Stalag at Bocholt. Five to a cell, radiator, pallias[?] & 1 blanket. Comfort!
25.02.45 – 26.02.45 Bocholt Stalag (POW camp).
27.02.45 Bocholt to Hansderf(?) marched 8 miles Munster.
28.02.45 Left Hansderf.
1.03.45 Travelling.
2.03.45 Arrived Kassell, “Legless” Aussie – as in “no legs”.
3.03.45 Arrived Oberursel [left to right arrow] 6/03.45.
7.03.45 Arrived Dulag Luft. Hot shower, food, beds, clothing, soap, hair cut etc.
8.3.45 Left Dulag.
9.03.45 Train bombed at Neidernhausen by U.S.A. marauders, walked 5k to Eppstein.
10.03.45. Eppstein. 11.03.45 Left Eppstein at night.
12.03.45 – 14.03.45 Travelling.
15.03.45 Arrived at Stanlayer? [?] Staumlager? [?] THANK GOD.
PART 2 The Trek.
[deleted] Lasted until [/deleted]
[page break]
04/04/45. Left kreigsgefanginenlager [sic] der Luft 3 POW camp, on the march, slept in pine woods.
5.04.45 Dive-bombed by USA Thunderbolts. Reached outskirts of Neumarket at 15.00 hrs. Raining at 18.00, soup at 23.00.
6.04.45 Fall in at 02.00, marched in rain until 06.00, slept in pine wood in rain. S/C 10.00. Reached Berching Stadt. Issued bread, honey, tinned meat. Traded for bottles and matches. Slept church.
7.04.45. Left column just after Beilingries [Beilngries] bathing pool.
8.04.45. Lift to top of hill, walked on alone, caught up with column. Frosty.
9.04.45. With column all day. Issued parcels at Neustadt. Bridge mined.
10.04.45. Stayed near Neustadt all day with sick Lou, Joe, Darky/Darby Ben. Wizard farm, barn, eggs, all our own.
11.04.45. French parcel. Bullock wagon for 11km. break at midday, forts? fortress bombing all round us.
12.04.45 Stayed in same village. Lou Green, Joe, Darky/Darby, Ben, Chris & pal. Orchard.
13.04.45 Rejoined main party on the road, marched 5km.
14.04.45 – 15.04.45 Stayed put. Old lady “no trade”.
16.04.45 Marched 10km to Pfeffenhousen.[sic] Kiwi and myself. Large spud issue.
17.04.45 Marched 10km. to Obermunchen. 3 eggs. 20 french fags.
18.04.45. left Obermunchen 17.00, marched 7km. to Neider Munchen.
19.04.45. Stayed at Neider Munchen. Acquired a new bottle.
20.04.45. Marched 8km, arrived Moosburg Stalag.
PART 3.
KRIEGIE NO MORE.
[page break]
29.04.45. Fighting heard at 09.00. Stars and Stripes raised in camp at 12.30. Tanks and jeeps in compound at 14.30.
01.05.45. Issue white bread, flour, good soup. Kiwi acquired frying pan, rhubarb.
02.05.45. Rice and rhubarb pancakes.
03.05.45. Doughnuts.
04.05.45. Into town. Mirror, pictures, rhubarb, potatoes. Killed pig.
05.05.45. Wood from house. Celery onions and parsnips acquired. Pork shop and chips for breakfast.
06.05.45. Pork chops, roast and mashed spuds, parsnips. Plum pudding. Killed a rabbit. Announced 10,000 leaving tomorrow (Moosburg – 80,000 detained).
07.05.45 Breakfast pork chop & chips. Deloused. Rabbit stew. Corned beef hash, prunes, [underlined] tooth-paste blancmange. [/underlined]
08.05.45. Kiwi and Tom left at 05.30. Fried eggs, spam, spuds, bread, cereal. Victory fudge. Moved out at 5 minutes notice; left camp at 13.15. Convoy to Landshut [deleted one letter] airfield Back to Landshut, in billet 18.00. Krations, bouillon, corned[?] pork roll, plum pudding. GERMAN BEER!!!
09.05.45. Ham and eggs, toast & marmalade. Airfield all day Landshut. Bouillon, corned pork load, spam and tomatoes.
10.05.45. Shredded wheat, ham and eggs. LT. HARRINGTON DAKOTA.B09.35 2.25 to Rheims. Lorry to camp. Meal, corned beef peas potatoes, peaches, coffee. Lorry to Jurincourt. W/O BELIVEAU, Lancaster 18.25/01.35 hrs. to Westcott.
11.05.45. 00.30 lorry to Leighton Buzzard. Train to Cosford. Registration, telegram. Bath, breakfast, bed. 14.00 – 17.00 Doctor, clothing etc.
[page break]
Footnotes.
Kassell – HQ for WEHRKREIS IX, & local sub-camp of Dachau concentration camp; provided forced labour for Henschel facilities. SEVERELY BOMBED.
Oberursel – North West of [deleted] Franf [/deleted] Frankfurt, east of Kronberg. U.S. & G B Airmen passed through, interrogated & “processed” into P.O.W. system. “Transit camp of Luftwaffe”, in town. Name shortened to Dulag Luft, or Dulag.
Neidernhausen – Allies advance in ’44 due to strategic rail importance. Heavily bombed especially on 22.02.45.
14/4/45. Old lady no trade – Geoff told me they had tried to barter with her in exchange for food, but she refused. Maybe terrified of recriminations?
Moosburg – Stalag (POW camp). Originally planned to hold 10,000 prisoners, by end of war some 80,000 detained.
[deleted] Keirgie [/deleted] Kriegie – slang for Allied POW in WWII German POW (internment) camp.
Jurincourt – abandoned (now) military airfield, in Aisne region of France. Built by French air force before WWII, grass runways. Taken over and expanded to become one of the main Luftwaffe air bases during German occupation – fighter and bomber planes. Seized by Allies in ’44, became major USAF base for fighter, bomber, & transport units, for remainder of war.
[page break]
Hasderf / Hansdorf )
Stamlayer /Staumlager ) no trace on internet for these spellings.
11/4/45 “forts bombing - ? Fortress planes?
[page break]
Three months after repatriation Geoff was flying again, 35 Squadron 8 Group, Grarely. [?] He flew three missions in Lancasters, 2 with F/Lt. Ashwell, one with Sq/Ld[?] Baldwin DFC, DFM, DSO.
In September 45, he flew twice as a passenger from Graveley – Tibbenham – Berlin, with F/Lt. England and returning Berlin – Tibbenham – Graveley.
His total Daylight flying time shows 289.40
His total Nightime [sic] flying time was 381.15
Total flying hours 670.55
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Geoffrey North rewritten account of being shot down and time as prisoner of war
Description
An account of the resource
A day by day account consisting of three parts. Part one covers his being shot down on 21 February 1945, his capture and journey to prisoner of war camp arriving 15 March 1945 including an mention that his train was bombed by Marauders. Part two covers forced march from prisoner of war camp 'Kreigsgefaninenlager der Luft 3' from 4 April 1945 to to Moosburg on 20 April 1945 and includes account of being strafed by Thunderbolts. Part three covers liberation by United States army on 29 April 1945 to his repatriation by C-47 and Lancaster on 10 May 1945. In part 3 he writes enthusiastically about the meals and food. The account is written lined paper. At the end footnotes concerning Kassel, Oberursel, Neidenhausen, Moosburg, Kriegie and Juvincourt. Followed by some research notes and descriptions of Geoffrey North's flying after his repatriation.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Six page handwritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BNorthGJNorthGJv2
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army
Royal Canadian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Bocholt
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Oberursel
Germany--Eppstein im Taunus
Germany--Neustadt an der Weinstrasse
Germany--Moosburg an der Isar
Germany--Landshut
France
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Bedfordshire
England--Shropshire
England--Cambridgeshire
France--Juvincourt-et-Damary
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-02-21
1945-02
1945-03
1945-04-04
1945-04
1945-05
1945-05-10
1945-05-11
1945-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
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Geoffrey North
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Sue Smith
David Bloomfield
Anne-Marie Watson
Emily Jennings
35 Squadron
bale out
C-47
Dulag Luft
Lancaster
military living conditions
Operation Exodus (1945)
prisoner of war
RAF Cosford
RAF Graveley
shot down
the long march
-
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Dublin Core
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Title
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North, Geoffrey John
North, G J
North, Johnny
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Geoffrey John 'Johnny' North, DFC, (173836, Royal Air Force) who served as a rear gunner on 428, 76 and 35 Squadrons flying Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He was called up in 1940 from his job as a tailor in Saville Row where he returned after the war. He was shot down on an operation to Duisburg on 21 February 1945. The collection contains his logbook, an account of his shooting down, capture and time as a prisoner of war, including documentation, forced march to another camp in 1945, liberation and repatriation. The collection includes membership documents for Royal Air Force Association, Pathfinders Association and Caterpillar Club as well as personnel documentation, Pathfinder badge correspondence and photographs of crew and squadron as well as other memorabilia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Carole Bishopp and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-20
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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North, G
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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Contents of Geoffrey “Johnny North’s box of Bomber Command memorabilia.
Five medals, mounted. Original box for D.F.C. plus Geoff’s comments.
Small set of 5 medals.
Box containing Bomber Command Clasp.
Box containing Caterpillar Badge, red-eyed, engraved.
2 x Insignia Air Ops 28-01-86 7-1392966 ① 8455-21-4794 ①8455-21-4795
Pathfinder Force Badge. – in sealed envelope.
Caterpillar Club Certificate of Membership.
RAF Observer’s and Air Gunners Flying Log Book.
1 Box containing 2 different R.A.F.A. badges.
2 Membership Cards for A.F.A. Association of Canada.
Named as “JOHN NORTH”, his preferred name while in RAF.
Several letters from Neil Bush, Geoff’s Navigator, one of the Canadian members of Bomber command. Mostly personal, but also includes up to date information of other Canadians they knew. ?428 Squadron.
Also references to navigation aids, which my
[Page break]
father was involved with; his log of a trip to Bochum; and a suggestion that I ask Geoff to tell me of their trip to Peenemϋnde “a real interesting one”. And a copy of a photograph of Dalton, 428 Squadron, lat [sic] 1942 with a covering letter.
There is also a letter to me from Geoff, about radar, and the Bochum trip which is [deleted] describled [/deleted] [inserted] described [/inserted] in detail regarding Flak and “Mandrel” – well worth a read! If you would like me to translate his writing, please ask! Also mentions “Rebecca”.
Photograph of 29 course Gaydon, plus see reverse for information on some of the men.
Path Finder Force Badge Award – permanently awarded to Geoff of 21/2/45
Photograph of Geoff – discovered behind one of his sister Elsie, after she died. He had no memory of it being taken at all, even the cap was not his, so it remains a mystery.
Award of Pathfinder Badge dated 4/12/44 – only valid while a member of Pathfinder Force.
Notification of death of Neil Bush on 03/6/10.
Sketch by Buster, of F/O “Johnny” North DFC.
Highly polished buttons & shoes! Transferred to Pathfinder Force, based at Gravely, Cambs.
[Page break]
Photograph of Lancaster, Gravely 35 Squadron. – details of crew on reverse. Sept 44 – Feb 45.
National Service Enlistment Notice dated 31/1/40.
Long Walk – original pages, plus my “interpretation”.
Letter from Solicitor showing my ownership.
Bomber Command clasp application.
R.A.F.A. Membership card.
Correspondence from Gravely to Geoff’s father
RAFA Membership card.
Pathfinder Assoc. Club. No. 1277.
RAF Officers Medical Record Card.
RAF service & release book.
Geoff’s provenance re. camp as POW on “Long March” ([deleted] 3 do [/deleted] 2 documents + 1 copy).
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Contents of Geoffrey 'Johnny' North's box of Bomber Command memorabilia
Format
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Three page handwritten document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Personal research
Identifier
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MNorthGJ173836-160523-02
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Anne-Marie Watson
Description
An account of the resource
List of contents of box including medals, badges, log book, insignia, membership cards, letters. photographs, memoir, service and other documents and a sketch.
bale out
Caterpillar Club
Pathfinders
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/459/8209/MNorthGJ173836-160523-10.2.jpg
5fd2a8d273371da198caca8e52f20cd0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
North, Geoffrey John
North, G J
North, Johnny
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Geoffrey John 'Johnny' North, DFC, (173836, Royal Air Force) who served as a rear gunner on 428, 76 and 35 Squadrons flying Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He was called up in 1940 from his job as a tailor in Saville Row where he returned after the war. He was shot down on an operation to Duisburg on 21 February 1945. The collection contains his logbook, an account of his shooting down, capture and time as a prisoner of war, including documentation, forced march to another camp in 1945, liberation and repatriation. The collection includes membership documents for Royal Air Force Association, Pathfinders Association and Caterpillar Club as well as personnel documentation, Pathfinder badge correspondence and photographs of crew and squadron as well as other memorabilia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Carole Bishopp and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-20
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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North, G
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[Caterpillar Club logo]
Caterpillar Club
Certificate of Membership
[Underlined] F/O G. J. NORTH [/underlined]
is a member of the CATERPILLAR CLUB,
having saved his life by parachute.
SIGNED [Signature]
HON. SEC. EUROPEAN DIVISON.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Geoffrey North Caterpillar club membership card
Description
An account of the resource
Catepillar clubcertificate of membership made out to 'F/O G J North'. Signed by hon sec European Division
Format
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Printed card
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Irving Air Chute Company
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNorthGJ173836-160523-10
bale out
Caterpillar Club
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/470/8353/PBarrJ1506.2.jpg
3d1db7db014345120fe9c55f1048e568
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/470/8353/ABarrJ150731.1.mp3
a995ab5803cf7ebba163570998ee0065
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barr, Jamie
James Barr
J Barr
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Barr, J
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant James Barr DFC (159928 Royal Air Force) and seven photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 61 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by James Barr and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: This is an interview with Flight Lieutenant Jim Barr DFC, a navigator on 61 Squadron. My name is Adam Sutch and the interview is being conducted at Ludlow on the 31st of July 2015 for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. Jim, thanks so much for agreeing to this interview. I’d like to set the scene by asking you to describe your life before joining the air force. A little bit about your home, parents, siblings, where you lived? That sort of thing.
JB: Yes. Well I left school when I was sixteen and went into engineering. Mechanical engineering. Went, and that, that was at the same place as I was living in Bellshill one word, Bellshill, Lanarkshire and I left and started to um get my mind to start working.
[pause]
JB: I went into an engineering factory which made switch gear and was doing, starting an apprenticeship in engineering and then the war came along and I decided to join the forces and became a, a, trained as a navigator in the er in engineering.
AS: What did your parents feel about you joining the forces?
JB: Um they were great. They were easy. If it was my choice - ok. They, they were happy for me to do that. Actually I was staying at home so of course. I wasn’t leaving so I was living at home and doing my apprenticeship and what happened then was of course that the, the war came along and I was busy doing an mechanical engineering apprenticeship and -
[pause].
AS: No worries.
JB: The apprenticeship was such that I um joined, um it’s difficult really to, to sort it out.
AS: Sometimes there’s a, there’s a word.
JB: Yes.
AS: Just out of reach isn’t there?
JB: Yes.
AS: Ok.
JB: Um.
AS: Shall we come at it another way?
JB: Right.
AS: What, what made you join the air force instead of the army or, or the navy?
JB: Mainly because it, it suited my apprenticeship to be an apprentice in engineering and it meant that I actually was learning engineering as well as doing something suitable for myself and they um when I came of age I then actually left the apprenticeship and actually er
[pause]
JB: Actually the apprenticeship brought me in to actually er -
AS: It started you on the path to the, to the air force. Yeah.
JB: To, yes more or less brought me along so I actually joined the air force which was suitable to my apprenticeship and then carried on doing an engineering apprenticeship as well as being in the air force and then from there I -
[pause]
AS: Can you, can you remember what happened when you actually joined the air force? Whereabouts was it?
JB: Yes I’m just trying to think actually.
[pause]
AS: Have a, have a pause.
[pause]
JB: Joined the air force I then, where did I go?
[pause]
AS: Did you -
JB: It’s amazing actually how -
AS: It’s a, it’s a long time ago. It’s -
JB: It is. Yes.
AS: It’s not unusual at all.
JB: I’m just trying to think where I
[pause]
AS: Did you go straight for air crew selection?
[pause]
AS: Jim, perhaps you could tell us a little bit about being selected for aircrew.
JB: Yes.
AS: And then your training as a navigator.
JB: Right.
[pause]
JB: When I joined, when I joined to, to um go in to the air force I decided to become a navigator in the air force and in order to I, I went to South Africa in order to learn navigation and I was stationed at a place called [Ootson] and we stayed there for, for a period of time. When my navigation was completed I then went to Port Alfred to be a, to learn gunnery and, which took place on the Indian Ocean and from there I then flew back to the UK um -
AS: You flew back to the UK. That would, that was unusual.
JB: [laughs] Yes.
AS: What was life like in, in South Africa when you were training? Compared to, to the UK that you left.
JB: Well it was, there was a, great, an anti-blacks and whites in South Africa where there was a line there. You had, you had, you really did, you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t step off the pavement for example. They actually, any time you were walking along if there was anybody who was not white then they, they had to move off to let me pass or let us pass and we worked, I stayed at a place called [Ootson] and then I went from [Ootson] I went to a place called Port Alfred which was the gunnery, the gunnery centre and we actually did the gunnery at the, on the Indian Ocean. When that was completed I then came back to the UK and I, from, from there we actually –
[pause]
AS: Whereabouts did you come back to in the UK? Can you, can you remember that?
JB: Is there a name there to, to give me a hand.
AS: That’s the, Port Alfred is, is there.
JB: That, Port Alfred, that’s South Africa.
AS: Yeah. And then -
JB: And then we went from there -
AS: To Dumfries.
JB: Dumfries.
AS: What, what were you doing there?
JB: And that was an intermediate station which only lasted for a month and the, the fact was that we were then from, we operated at Dumfries and then I was only there for a month and then I went to somewhere.
AS: North Luffenham.
JB: North Luffenham. North Luffenham. That was, that was a navigation school in North Luffenham which I was there for, I forget how long I was there, for some time actually at North Luffenham.
AS: So that was an OTU? Is that where you -
JB: An OTU yeah.
AS: Where you crewed up?
JB: Yes. So that I was there at the OTU, as a factor there I was there for some time.
[pause]
AS: You were there from October, is that ‘42? Yes it is. October ’42.
JB: Yeah ’42.
AS: Until it’s – no it’s got base in there so you were still flying Wellingtons so –
JB: Yeah.
AS: So you were there you were there until March, is that? March 1943.
JB: Yes.
AS: Gosh that is a long time at OTU isn’t it?
JB: Yes. Anyway I completed the OTU training there and then is there, is there a clue there?
AS: There’s, there’s a lot of fairly standard exercises.
JB: Right.
AS: And then there’s this little two words on the 20th of December.
JB: Yes.
AS: Bailed out.
JB: Bailed out.
AS: What was that all about?
JB: Yes. Well what happened there was that we, we actually it was the first night flight. We were actually doing our first night flying and there was my crew of five. The actual er the pilot and navigator of another crew and an instructor and we took off and climbed to ten thousand feet and I actually found the wind, gave the wind to the pilot and we then actually, the pilot then found that he was in difficulty with the plane so he, the instructor pilot actually run down the back, the plane to see if he could see what was wrong but couldn’t, found that a wire had broken so he then went back, took the pilot out of the flying position, took over the plane, flew it and then told us that we had to bail out and we actually we, we all bailed out which, but in actual fact the pilot in the meantime was fighting with the controls of the plane at ten thousand feet. And in actual fact we were all more or less out except the rear, the rear gunner and the rear gunner saw these people leaving the plane but there had been no intercom. It was all verbal, ‘get out’ and so forth so he actually ran up the plane to find out what was going on and the instructor pilot was flying the plane and told him to get out. Well, in the meantime we had lost so much height that when he did bail out he actually landed in the, in the WAAF quarters of an aerodrome and went to a hut, he didn’t know where he was but he had landed at Wyton aerodrome which was pathfinders I think.
AS: Yes.
JB: And he actually er he actually er -
AS: Gosh, he’s in the WAAF quarters.
JB: Yeah. That’s it. He went, he went to a hut, a door of a hut, opened the door and found they were all women. It was a WAAF, the WAAF quarters of RAF Wyton aerodrome and he actually made himself known and the, the pilot actually where the plane was unmanageable by a, a rookie but this instructor controlled, managed to control the plane and landed at parallel to the actual runway of this Wyton pathfinder ‘drome and we um -
AS: So everybody survived.
JB: Yes. We all, we all actually safely bailed out and, and all went to various quarters. I actually landed in a field of, a ploughed field which was lifting sugar beet and went on more or less came out of that field, on to the road, walked along the road until I came to a house, knocked on the door. A woman, actually I was carrying a parachute and had all the parachute on crumpled up under my arm, knocked on the door and a woman opened the door, slammed the door in my face and her husband then came to the door with a gun and by that time I realised that the thing was that they didn’t take me as being RAF. So I mentioned RAF and I showed them my hat cap and they then invited me in and gave me a cup of tea and went, the boy went in to the next door neighbour, their son came out and they, they then collected, these boys took the parachute and the harness and everything and they took me along to the local lord of the manor, to his house. And he then got his car out and took us around to the police station and the police by this time had been collecting as each member of the crew went to somewhere they then went to the police so that we actually all collected in the police station and the, the, a bus from the aerodrome which was in traveling distance we actually went to the, we were waiting till the bus came and took us back to the, back to the aerodrome. We, from there, we continued actually to do our training, learning and um -
AS: Did you, did you have any, any leave after such an experience or did you just?
JB: No. No.
AS: Did you just get on with it?
JB: No we actually well we did have leave but mainly because the pilot actually he actually somehow or other had damaged his head and he didn’t come with us, he actually went to a hospital and er, er we went on leave. The rest of the crew, we went on leave until the pilot was fit to come out and we actually then,
[pause]
JB: I’m just trying to think what we actually the wireless operator he, he, he didn’t actually take to the baling out part of it and he, his nerve went so he left the crew and we got a new wireless operator and we had then the pilot came out of hospital and we eventually, the rest of us had been on holiday during his period in hospital and we went back to the squadron when after, when he was fit and we then -
[pause]
JB: And I’m trying to think what happened then. We actually, we carried on as a crew. We did training. I forget actually what, what happened. Did we -
AS: A lot of navigation exercises and -
JB: Yes.
AS: And -
JB: So, well, we actually then formed a crew and continued training at this, I forget the name of the, the aerodrome.
AS: Oh at um North Luffenham.
JB: North Luffenham. That’s an OTU.
AS: Yeah.
JB: So we went to this North Luffenham OTU and continued training until we qualified as a crew.
AS: Yeah. What, do you know if there were any consequences for the wireless operator for deciding that he wouldn’t fly anymore.
JB: No. Actually he disappeared. We didn’t know what happened to him. He just left, he left the crew. We didn’t know what happened to him and we got a second tour wireless operator. A chappy who had got so many hours in and he then became our wireless operator and he made up the crew.
AS: So did, did you start the, the OTU course again or, or was it just a continuation with new crew members -
JB: We continued as a crew learning the job. I forget now which is, what’s the name of the, the place we’re at now?
AS: There’s Luffenham where you -
JB: North Luffenham yes.
AS: Bailed out.
JB: Yes.
AS: You’ve got your leave.
JB: Yes.
AS: Until the captain is well -
JB: Yes.
AS: And then you, you carry on with your -
JB: We carried on. Yes we carried on. Which place did we go to from there? From North er -
AS: Oh there’s an interesting one. Your last flight I think at the OTU. Almost.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Emergency landing at Colerne. What, what, can you remember what that was about? You’d done a nickel raid on, on Vichy.
JB: Oh yes that’s right. What happened was we did a, as a final test of a crew we actually did a, what they called, a nickel raid down into France and we actually then flew back up from France back and I don’t know where we actually landed. Did we land somewhere?
AS: Your log book says Colerne. RAF Colerne.
JB: Colerne. That’s right.
AS: Down in the West Country.
JB: We were more or less, we more or less I think we were called up an emergency call and we actually landed at Colerne which was, was an emergency landing and we then, but that actually meant that we had finished I think. We finished at Colerne and we -
AS: Yeah. Yes -
JB: Yes and went to somewhere else.
AS: When you, you called up with your emergency. Can you remember was it something like darkie that you called up or -
JB: Yes. We, no we more or less um mayday. Mayday.
AS: Ok mayday call.
JB: We called up mayday and were given permission to land. That’s right.
AS: Did you get any help with searchlights or anything like that from the ground?
JB: No. No. Well we could see actually that we were circling and they then put the lights up, put three lights up, up so that we actually landed in that triangle and more or less that, we then carried on training. I don’t know whether we, whether we went to a different, to a different -
AS: Ah. That’s, that’s it, that’s the, that’s the OTU -
JB: Yes.
AS: Finished.
JB: Finished. Yeah.
AS: Signed off the OC flight -
JB: Right. OK.
AS: And -
JB: Yes.
AS: Then to 1661 conversion unit at Winthorpe.
JB: Oh yes so actually we more or less progressed in our training to this Winthorpe which was the next stage of the training and we actually only stopped there for a short time at Winthorpe and then we went to somewhere else.
AS: Was this where you, oh it’s, you were flying in the Manchester there.
JB: Oh.
AS: Oh.
JB: So that was an intermediate stage. We actually flew in Manchesters at that particular place and then we went on to somewhere else.
AS: Ok. So, its April 1943 by then and you flew Manchesters and then you were introduced to
JB: Lancasters.
AS: The Lancaster.
JB: Yes.
AS: At the conversion unit.
JB: The conversion unit yes. We started flying Manchesters er Lancasters. So we started flying Lancasters which was what, what was the name of the place be?
AS: That was at, that was at Winthorpe.
JB: Winthorpe.
AS: On your conversion.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: Converting the crew to -
JB: Yes.
AS: To the Lancaster.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: And then I suppose you learnt operation procedures there.
JB: Yes.
AS: Did you?
JB: Yes.
AS: What, what was it like to navigate inside a, a bomber?
JB: Well as a navigator you, you actually you’re in a compartment more or less cut off from the rest of crew with curtains because you didn’t want the light from the navigator department to blinding the people outside so you were actually in a navigation area was a curtain cutting you off from the front of the plane and another curtain here. The wireless operator was sitting behind me more or less to my left. He’s sitting fore and aft and I’m sitting ninety degrees. So the wireless operator is sitting there facing front. There’s a curtain across and I’m sitting here in a compartment with two curtains, illuminated so that that was my actually all flying. The navigator was on his own with no contact with the, visual contact with the crew.
AS: Yeah. Ok thank you. So we leave the conversion unit.
JB: Yes.
AS: In, where are we? Oh there’s more. Oh a bullseye. What’s a, what’s a bullseye?
JB: A bullseye [pause] you have a target, I’m just trying to see
[pause].
JB: It’s a target actually that you more or less navigate the plane to a bullseye and then you actually instruct the bomb aimer to aim for the target.
AS: This is a training target.
JB: Training yes.
AS: In the UK. Ok. So that is May 1943.
JB: Yeah.
AS: You’re finishing at the OTU.
JB: You finished at the OTU so am I going to, which station did I go from there?
AS: To 61 squadron at Syerston.
JB: Yes that’s when training has finished. So I then go to 61 squadron as a member of a crew. The crew’s formed and that’s, that’s where, where the crew fly as a crew.
AS: Yeah. You’re leaving the conversion unit just about the time in May 1943 when 617 squadron -
JB: Ahuh.
AS: Did the dams. Can you remember hearing about that?
JB: Yes. I mean we actually, we, we knew all about it was spread in the actual area that the actual flight, the target was actually that that the crews are aware of this Ruhr navigated navigator and they were actually controlling the target to be aimed at.
AS: Ahum ok. Shall we have a, a pause?
JB: Yes.
[pause]
AS: Jim I’d just like to take you back a moment.
JB: Right.
AS: To something I’ve seen in your, your logbook here.
JB: Right.
AS: It’s in a Wellington and you’re saying, “Circuit and landing. Engine on fire. Landed at Swinderby.” That’s sounds like quite an exciting occurrence.
JB: Yes.
AS: What happened there?
JB: Well it was an unexpected occurrence where an engine went on fire. The, the engineer pointed out that one of the engines was on fire and we actually then had to take emergency action. So what happened was that we actually then called up to ask for permission to land at, at the nearest aerodrome.
AS: That’s Swinderby.
JB: Which was -
AS: Swinderby.
JB: Swinderby. Ahum. And we called up Swinderby and asked for permission to land as we were in an emergency position and we had to land for safety. Yes.
AS: And your pilot, Sergeant Graham Kemp brought it off and everybody, everybody survived.
JB: Yes. Yes survived because we, we,we we landed in a safe condition. No, no problem. Yes.
AS: Quite an exciting time in your training.
JB: Yes. Yes.
AS: Ok we’ll just, we’re just pause there for a moment.
JB: Right.
[pause]
AS: Jim we’re going through your logbook.
JB: Right.
AS: It’s May the 11th, 1943 and you’ve arrived at 61 squadron.
JB: Right.
AS: As an operational crew.
JB: Right.
AS: Can you describe to me the process of coming on to an operational station? What, what sort of things did you have to go through?
JB: Your, your station, you moved from where the, the training was completed. You’re then sent, posted to an operating base which is actually where you’re going to be operating from and you’re given permission, you’re given instruction where to go to operate and the, the, the crew are going to be operating as a trained navigation, a trained crew.
AS: Ok. Did you all live together? Were you all sergeants together? Or -
JB: No. No, well you were in the same block of, um -
[pause]
It’s you’re either you’re living in a, you’re living in an instruct, you’re not living in quarters. Either two of you or one but not three. Usually the pilot and the navigator lived together and the other members of the crew lived as a pair to keep the numbers down.
AS: Ok.
JB: So that we, I was flying, I was living with the pilot in the station that we were posted to -
AS: Ok.
JB: As a, as a group of, a group of um -
AS: As a qualified crew yeah.
JB: As a, yeah -
AS: Ok.
JB: Yes, crews, as actual members of the crew were broken up in to pairs and lived in a joint hut.
AS: Ok.
JB: Right.
AS: Did you see a lot of each other as a crew. As a unit? Or -
JB: You, usually what happened was that the pilot and the navigator usually were mates and the other members, the bomb aimer was with the wireless operator so that you actually broke up into groups of either two or three and operated like that and most lived separately.
AS: Ok.
JB: Yes.
AS: So your logbook here shows you arriving on the squadron.
JB: Yes.
AS: And some, some practice flying, low level bombing, air test.
JB: Yeah.
AS: And then your first operation.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: Can you remember what that was like?
JB: We’re at 61?
AS: Yeah. Syerston, yeah [pause].
JB: It’s um -
AS: It’s got ops Dusseldorf and then a boomerang.
JB: Ah, in actual fact what happened there was we were more or less instructed, all the actual, the squad, the group were actually broken, broken up into crews and the crew were actually instructed, were instructed to go to certain places.
AS: Ahum.
JB: But that, the actual, that was actually to form, where to, were instructed really to, to, to go on -
AS: A bombing trip, yeah. A bombing trip.
JB: Bombing trip, yeah. So that we actually then, as a crew, we went on a bombing trip.
AS: Ok.
JB: And –
AS: And this one was Dusseldorf.
JB: Dusseldorf.
AS: Yeah. But it says got boomerang. What, what is that?
JB: What happened was, some operation, some problem occurred -
AS: Ahum.
JB: With the navigation which indicated that we were not capable of carrying on and we actually, we couldn’t actually, you couldn’t carry on as you were planning to do. It was, what’s the word that, that we didn’t actually, we couldn’t carry on.
AS: Yes. So it was an early return.
JB: An early return yes.
AS: An early return. Yeah. Ok.
JB: Yes that’s right.
AS: And then a successful operation to, to Essen.
JB: Essen so.
AS: Yeah.
JB: Now, now we were actually operating as a crew and each trip was different to the previous one so that we were actually as a crew we were going to different targets in, in Europe as crews.
AS: These are, they’re Ruhr targets aren’t they? These were heavily defended.
JB: Yes.
AS: What, what was the experience like? Can you remember when you first started operational flying? With the flak and the searchlights? What -
JB: Yes. Well in actual fact it was mainly there wasn’t actually any actual er target. There was um -
[pause]
JB: Each crew were not being, they were being fired at as a crew, and we were actually being careful and looking out for what we were doing. So we actually, each crew went to the target or navigated to the target as an operating crew and we were actually taking photographs of the target to indicate the accuracy of the navigation. That’s right, yes.
AS: Looking at your, your logbook for your first few operations it’s, it’s all heavily defended targets isn’t it?
JB: Yes.
AS: Dusseldorf, [Borkhum], Cologne.
JB: Yes.
AS: And -
JB: Yes we went to these actual, these were targets that we were instructed to go to as, as, as individual crews.
AS: Ahum.
JB: The crew was, each crew was going to these targets independently. Not, not combined.
AS: And I see your, your skipper had been commissioned by the end of May.
JB: What, what happened in crews, usually the pilot sometimes decides he is going to apply for a commission. Sometimes the navigator decides as well. Quite often, actually, what happens sometimes is the pilot and navigator applied for commission as a, as a pair and usually the other, the bomb aimer and gunners don’t, don’t go with them. Stay as non-commissioned officers.
AS: Is that happened with, is that what happened with you two?
JB: Yes.
AS: So you were commissioned at the same time?
JB: Yes, and the bomb aimer and the others didn’t -
AS: Ok.
JB: So we split up and went to different messes actually. Yes.
[pause]
JB: Yes.
AS: Are there things that, that stand out in your mind from, from your bombing raids particularly?
JB: This, this actually after this number of years actually I’m just trying to remember [laughs]. What. If we had any problems. Is there any problems?
AS: Um you’ve got a long operation to Turin.
JB: Oh yes.
AS: Followed by an emergency landing at Colerne again. You must have liked Colerne.
JB: [laughs]
AS: Did you have a girl down there?
JB: Yes well in actual fact the thing was really that we actually decided when we were coming back from, from Turin that was, that was somewhere we knew so we decided to, to go to [Turin] in preference to an unknown target or destination.
AS: Ok.
JB: Yes.
AS: Ok. So you said emergency landing. Was that short of fuel after all that time?
JB: It would be actually. We were running short of fuel so we decided that we would make an emergency landing while we knew where we were. Yes.
AS: Now we’re on, talking about your operations. It’s, it’s the middle of 1943 what did you have to help you to navigate. Did you have Gee?
JB: The only thing that I had was we had um its um we’ve got, I’m just trying to remember what you would call it. There’s a picture that showed we more or less had [pause] it shows, it shows, a dot to tell us where we were so what happened was that we, the navigator really from starting off from base the navigator then tells the pilot what, what course to, to fly. So the pilot then flies on, on a particular course and the navigator tells him the duration of the, the time that they are on this course so as, as they’re flying along and more or less the bomb aimer is giving target pinpoints and we actually know from the bomb aimers instructions that we are on course or we are off course or we actually make arrangements. We know from navigation, we know that we are actually running off course so what we do then is that we extend the course that we are flying on by say six minutes so that you’ve got time then to more or less assume where you going to be and then you actually give a new course to tell them a certain direction. You give the pilot the new direction to fly so that they come down on to the new, new target.
AS: So you’re working out wind vectors -
JB: Wind –
AS: And new track, yeah?
JB: Yeah.
AS: OK. So you were busy all the time.
JB: All the time. The navigator’s always the only one who is really working and he’s working all, he works all the time.
AS: So back, back to this box was it Gee or H2S.
JB: Gee.
AS: It’s Gee. Yes.
JB: Well yes it could be either. Actually, the Gee was more basic whereas the H2S was a more accurate point so that you’re, you’re more or less you tell the pilot that in five minutes at so and so time you will actually will turn to X direction so that when you get to this point you say, ‘Turn now,’ and the pilot then has already put it on his
[pause]
AS: The, the compass.
JB: Compass.
AS: Yeah.
JB: He has already put a compass needle on the course to that you’re going to turn on to so what happens is at the time you say, ‘now,’ the pilot then turns over on to the new course and you fly along this particular course and as, as you’re going along you actually ask the bomb aimer to give pin points so that you have assistance from the bomb aimer who tells you that you’re on course or you’re off course and if you’re off course you’ve got, he’s got to say you’re off course and to give you an indication and you’d then more or less extend so many minutes to a new course, to a point where you turn on to a new course to get, to put, to put the plane on to the course that’s going to bring him to the right point at a certain time.
AS: So you and the bomb aimer were really a bit of a navigational team.
JB: A pair yes.
AS: Yes.
JB: Yeah.
AS: So did, sometimes I guess the bomb aimer couldn’t see the ground?
JB: Quite often. You don’t always but in actual fact what usually happens is they then assumes. They do an exercise er you turn the plane onto an assumed course so that you actually hope that when you actually get to the next ETA, estimated target, you actually will be able to see where the plane is from, from the bomb aimer. He tells you that we’re actually, in five minutes you should see so and so and usually if your navigation is good you do see the target that you are waiting for.
AS: When you’re giving course corrections to the, to the captain did you do it by voice or did you always pass him a note?
JB: No. Usually voice.
AS: Ahum.
JB: Usually you tell him that at a certain time, a certain time you, I want you turn on to X Y Z and he then when he turns on he says, ‘on new course’ and he tells you that he’s done what you told him to do and then of course the bomb aimer is more or less going to be the one who’s looking where, where you’re going and the bomb aimer then says X Y Z so that he’s checked that what you told the bomb aimer to do the bomb aimer actually then sees that the pilot’s done it and you then actually carry on and tell the bomb aimer that you should be able to see X Y Z soon because that’s where I planned that you’re going.
AS: So the bomb aimer is your spy in the front of the aeroplane.
JB: Yes. Yes.
AS: Yeah.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Ok.
JB: Yeah.
AS: So you worked very closely together.
JB: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
[pause]
AS: Another, another engine failure um -
JB: Ahum.
AS: On your air sea firing. Port inner u/s. Were the, were the aeroplanes generally reliable? Did you have confidence in them?
JB: Oh yes. Usually you always assume that the plane is doing what you tell it to do. And the bomb aimer is more or less, he’s, he’s got his own map which is a visual map so when you actually tell the pilot what to do he then actually does it and says, he’ll say, ‘On to course A B C,’ and then er, ‘On course.’ And then he’ll say in so many minutes we should come to so and so. So that each one, the pilot, the navigator tells the pilot and the pilot is then is telling the crew that the plane is now on so and so and he tells the, the bomb aimer that you should be able to see so and so in a five minutes or so many minutes to help you to correct what you’re doing.
AS: And when, when you’re correcting course, adding the wind vectors and what not did you use broadcast winds or did you calculate your own?
JB: You usually, you’ll calculate if you’re at A and when you arrive at A you should have told the pilot that when you get to A I want you to turn on to so and so and then you more or less give him a primer that says you’ll be coming to that point in a minute or two minutes. And then when you get there the pilot will say, ‘Altered course now,’ and you change on to a new course and then he says, ‘On course,’ once he’s turned, he’s on course and you also say that you will stay on that course until so and so. So many minutes. And you then tell them that you’re, you should now have turned and the pilot will then say, ‘I have turned on to the new course.’ So the three of them, the pilot, the bomb aimer and the navigator are more or less playing as a team.
AS: Yeah.
JB: And each one is checking the other and expecting and the other one is actually telling the other so it’s a team of three.
AS: Did you have, ever have to take real emergency action as a crew? Corkscrew or anything like that? And what, what effect does that have on your navigation?
JB: Do you mean the one um worry that you have sometimes as a crew is when, for example, the um the wind changes. You actually, you’re doing, the pilot is doing what the navigator told him to do and when the pilot is on the course that the navigator told him, when he’s on the course he then actually, it says on course if the wind changes and you’re actually, unknown to you or anyone else, you’re actually blown off course and you’re actually, you’ve, for example the pilot will be told by the navigator you should be in five minutes you should be coming to a railway crossing or something, a railway bridge or something. Once you actually, you tell him that the pilot will say he’s turned on to that course you say well in five minutes you should actually come to so and so then of course if he says if the five minutes come up and that hasn’t appeared the bomb aimer then says, ‘I can’t see where you instructed me,’ So you’ve then got to ask them to then look and see about - what can you see? Is there a river there, is there a railway or is there a road? Something. You can ask the bomb aimer to pick out to more or less assist you.
AS: And then reverse it back it to find -
JB: Reverse it.
AS: What the wind.
JB: Yeah.
AS: And then after the middle of August you, you get a new pilot.
[laughs]
AS: A Flying Officer Turner. What, what happened there?
JB: That’s it. Jimmy Graham. Jimmy Graham actually was grounded. His, his, he, Graham was actually damaged in this bailout and up to this point he had assumed he would try and carry on and in actual fact he decided that he was not capable of carrying on so what happened was that we were then transferred to a new pilot and he, this pilot took over from Graham and he then started. He was a second tour pilot who, he was more experienced than we had been used to, yes.
AS: And he takes you on a long cross country to get used to a new crew.
JB: New. Yes. Yes.
AS: But no break from operations. You’re still -
JB: Still carrying on.
AS: Now you’ve, you’ve flown in several different aeroplanes. Did you get your own aeroplane?
JB: Usually yes. You had your own plane.
AS: Ok and did, what aircraft did you have? Did you decorate the aircraft?
JB: You don’t usually er you didn’t actually you didn’t put anything. I think, I think we had actually. We put, yes we had a, I think we had a scantily clad woman lying on a bomb on the side of the plane. Sometimes once you got a plane you could do something like that and the pilot would maybe get a ground staff artist, you know, to do something to mark it to say it’s your plane.
AS: And this, this was Just Jane was it?
JB: That was, yes.
AS: And there’s one at, a Lancaster at East Kirkby.
JB: Yes.
AS: Marked up as Just Jane. Have you seen her?
JB: Jane. Yes. Yes.
AS: That’s your aircraft.
JB: [laughs] Yes.
AS: Were you a very well-disciplined crew in terms of communications in the aeroplane and -
JB: Oh yes. I mean, we, I was always lucky we actually had a good, well-disciplined crew where there was never any nonsense you know. We never had any bomb aimer or gunner more or less telling jokes and stuff. We never had anything like that. We always were on the job. So we actually told, the navigator told the pilot what course to go on and the bomb aimer would say he would, he’d noted that so that it was always very prompt and correct.
AS: Shall we have a pause?
JB: Right yes.
[pause]
AS: Jim, we were just talking. Everyone has their, their specialist crew positions. Did you ever change over? Change places with other crew members?
JB: Yes actually on occasion I did do a swap with a rear gunner. I actually called up the rear gunner and told him that I would like to switch with him so that I’m sitting in his rear turret and he will sit up here in my navigational position and so that when it’s convenient I’ll say, ‘Ready to change,’ or ‘Change now.’ So what happened was that I actually put all my pencils and so forth, made them safe on my drawing board and then left it. So I went back down to the rear turret where the rear gunner moved up and sat in my position and I went back into the turret, the rear turret and all you can do in the rear turret is slew from left to right. You can raise the gun and drop it but you are limited to do what you are actually trying to do. You can only move to the right to a point, to a stop and come back and swing around to a stop and you can actually vary it according to where you want to, to move and it’s a case of your position is purely controlled by yourself and nobody else can actually move whereas in actual fact other positions people are doing it from their own satisfaction and the pilot will more or less tell the rear gunner to change over with the bomb aimer and they’ll both say, ‘Well I’m disconnecting now,’ and tell the pilot what he’s doing. Both of them will do the same so that they tell the pilot and the pilot actually assumes that what is being done is correct and does it.
AS: What did you feel like, sitting there in space, going backwards in the rear turret?
JB: Not, not, not nice at all. I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t do it very often. In fact I doubt if I did it five times all the times we were actually flying.
AS: And this was all in training flights in, in England?
JB: Yes.
AS: Yeah. What did the rear gunner feel like?
JB: He also didn’t like it. He, he preferred to be there looking back and only, didn’t like it when he was up in the front of the plane.
AS: Was there anyone else on the aircraft who could make some attempt at flying the aeroplane apart from the pilot?
JB: Yes oddly enough actually we never in, in, in any crews that I flew in and I flew in quite a number we never really did a switch so I never actually went out on a training flight and changed over with somebody else. I never did that with our planes.
AS: Ok. That’s great. That’s great. We’ll have a pause there.
JB: Yeah.
[pause]
JB: The fact um that we did, I, I um on one trip we went to Berlin. We actually took off and went up and crossed Denmark. We went up, more or less flew up to Denmark then flew across the north of Europe until we came to a point where I would turn from my navigation. I would say that we were now about at a point where we were going to turn starboard and go and fly down to, to Berlin and on one occasion it happened that we decided, the reason we decided to do this particular exercise was on a foggy, cloudy night so we actually didn’t see anything and we were above cloud all the time so I was more or less, I, I before we actually er set off I decided I would navigate using um [pause] to do it by dead reckoning. So what happened was that we actually take off and we actually climbed up north east and but I flew at, got up below cloud base and decided to find the wind at that point so that I actually knew that I was starting off knowing what was happening and then we carried on and climbed up above the clouds and we navigated then across to the east and then when I estimated that we were north of Berlin I told the pilot to turn to starboard and we would fly down and when I estimated that we should be over Berlin I then told the pilot to start descending and we found out, of course. Then the problem then was to find out where we were which was quite an exercise because it was, it’s amazing really what happens when you’ve got, you’ve got a wind that is estimated from the Met Office. You estimate the wind at a certain directness, at a certain speed and you actually, what navigators, you think you know where you are and then when you actually turn south to go and come through to Berlin it’s amazing actually how far you’re off. It’s extremely difficult.
AS: Does there come a point where you can see the target on fire that tells you where the target is? Or -
JB: We, we, we never did any where we were actually bombing you know and I didn’t do any where we were actually going to bomb a target. Actually we never did that. So on training we never had the pleasure of seeing it. Yeah.
AS: When you’re, you’re tracking towards the target, following your course towards the target you’re in a stream with lots of other aeroplanes. Lots of other bombers.
JB: Yeah. We actually, we never, I actually um it was odd that we didn’t find that we could see, after we climbed up to operational height and so forth, you never find another plane. Although I mean the thing is you’re at an unknown height, and they’re at an unknown height I don’t know so of course you don’t really know where they are you know and you don’t see them so you never, we never actually saw other planes. It’s amazing.
AS: The gunners never saw any German planes?
JB: No. No, it was amazing. Yeah.
AS: Was it cold in the aeroplane at night?
JB: We never, we were warm, so we were plugged in. We had an electrically heated flying outfit so we never had the pleasure or the opposite but we didn’t have the cold. We always flew in heated suits so we never got the cold.
AS: Jim, looking at your logbook it seems most of your excitement was in training, with -
JB: Yes.
AS: Baling out and what not but I think you had an engine problem on take-off.
JB: Yes. On one occasion actually where quite unexpectedly we were taking off and we were, the tail, we were going at such a speed that we actually had the tail off the ground which meant that we were getting to the touch point where we were going to be airborne in a matter of seconds actually when we actually had the pilot then had the experience that two engines on the port side cut and he then managed to control the plane and bring, bring it to, to a halt after a lot of er well he was controlling the, the actual moving plane which was slewing to the left and he managed to prevent any danger where a wing could possibly have dipped and hit the ground and cause a lot of trouble. Nothing like that happened to us. We managed to slow down carefully and quickly and stopped the plane before it hit anything.
AS: So you were full of fuel.
JB: Full of fuel. Yes.
AS: Full of bombs.
JB: Yes.
AS: On your way to Magdeburg.
JB: Yes and, and we, we managed to, the pilot managed to hold things and, and prevented any, and dips of wings or, or damage, prevented which could have caused a terrific accident.
AS: Do you know if he got any commendations for that?
JB: Actually they were very, very loath to, to give commendations. You don’t, I can’t think of any occasions really where something like that happened and somebody took a pilot say aside and said, ‘Well done.’ That, that didn’t actually, I suppose when you think about it he was expected to do what he did. To, to have dipped and have the wing touch the ground and have a horrible accident really the pilots were capable of preventing that which really, thank God for, for the pilots really. I don’t know of any. I knew, I can think of one occasion where a chappy, it happened to, where he landed, where he actually came in and hit an air pocket and the wing tipped and touched the ground and caused the plane to well, really bounced badly and come to a stop safely without any, any great amount of damage happening to the plane. We know, I know of another one who, we landed. Syerston was a place which actually crossed the River Trent, came to the, came to the land inside and bounced the plane down. We actually did have one which actually did come down too low and skimmed on the water and fortunately the River Trent wasn’t actually too high and the banks so he did actually skim along the off side of the, of the river and without doing any -
AS: He got away with it.
JB: Yeah. But it was er quite easily done actually if somebody’s not really on the ball. Yes. Yeah.
AS: But as you say you were all grateful to your pilot for -
JB: Ahum.
AS: For pulling it off.
JB: Yes. Yes.
AS: I know it’s an awful long time ago but could we try and go through what happened on a, a mission from start to finish. I know they were all different.
JB: Yes.
AS: You’re called for ops and then what happens? Did you get a navigation briefing or -
JB: Yes what happens is that it depends whether, whether the actual um the weather whether it’s winter or summer or so forth. Assuming it’s like this time, the end of the summer, so that what happens is that we would always take off late. If you were actually going to bomb Germany you would take off late so that you were actually going to be getting across the North Sea, getting dark so that you’re, you’re not going to be going terribly far in to Germany otherwise I mean you would be in danger of having the Germans seeing you. So what happened was that you would take off, take off say half past ten so that you were getting close to the European coast by dark. Quite, quite, quite often you would actually, you be climbing then, hard as you could to get as high as you could without more or less um going into Germany, making it safe, making it easier for them. So you’d take off and get as high as possible before you were actually over Holland. And you would, quite often you would actually be getting up to your ceiling by the time you get over Germany and you’re more or less at a reasonably safe height if you could call any height safe but you would actually climb up and then you would get to the target pretty quickly before you actually start to come back because you don’t want to be over there. When you are coming home you want to be in a safe position so you would actually make sure that you were actually doing everything in the danger area as, which means you’re as high as you actually can be.
AS: Ok.
JB: We actually, I mean quite often you would actually, If you had any mechanical problems then that’s the time it’s dangerous really if you actually were to be in Germany and then start having mechanical trouble which means that you’ve got to lose height than you’re in, you’re in trouble. We never really had a situation like that because I mean usually you don’t get back.
AS: So did, I know squadrons were different. Did your squadron brief everybody together? Or did you have a pilots and navigators briefing? What, what happened at a briefing?
JB: At a briefing you’ve got all the, usually the pilot, the navigator and the bomb aimer are usually, they have a briefing before the rest of the crews come in so that you’re actually getting all the detail and you’re getting it so that you can ask questions and so on and so forth and make sure that you’ve got all the knowledge that you need before they open the door and let the other crew members in because there was no point in them sitting listening to what you get so usually the actual briefing is two parts and the final part is with everybody there and the crews have asked all, the navigator and bomber aimer and pilot have all asked the questions that they want and the answers too. Yeah
AS: And how long did you get to do all your calculations and do your [frack]?
JB: Sometimes, for example at this time of the year in actual fact it’s usually the briefing is quite often er very close to final briefing because you’ve, you’ve, you’ve got very little time between the briefing and then the take-off. It’s usually at this time of year it’s all very, very sort of crammed whereas in the winter time you’ll more or less have briefing by day so that you’ve got plenty of time to ask questions and so forth and without any danger really of running into or running out of time. Yeah.
AS: So are you, are you wearing you, your flying gear at the briefing time?
JB: No.
AS: So it’s -
JB: No. You go in more or less in you’re going out, your working, your working kit because usually it’s a case of you’ve got your going out kit which is posh, reasonably posh whereas the, the, the one that’s not so posh is the one that’s possibly if you’re briefed and you’re actually going to bomb tonight and then at the last minute they decide they’re not going well then quite often the, the crews would be given permission to go back and drop all your equipment back in the shed and then you can go into town but, and have a drink without actually being too smart that you’re allowed to go in and just go to the local rather than to be the, the, the final one.
AS: When you got kitted up um were you also issued with things like escape kits?
JB: Yeah. You got, you got there’s, there’s, there’s usually a kit that you actually take any time you’re going out where there’s a danger of not coming back. You go out later bombing usually if there’s any danger of you going out usually you’re not allowed to get ready because you, you, you wouldn’t be properly kitted out to go. I mean, I would say that in a, in a in a tour of crew for example we were on a squadron we were there for about nearly a year on a squadron but in actual fact in it’s in the summertime if you were on this time of the year you would, you would do your thirty trips. You know, you would do them in in three months whereas we, we, we quite often we were, we did, we were on our second tour so that we were getting messed around for quite a while where usually in the summertime and people were actually bombing in June, July, August you did it in three months.
AS: Were you the, the old men of the squadron then or were there other crews in the same position as you?
JB: Yeah. We were actually the old men because my, my, the pilot Jimmy Graham you’ve seen there changed over to Turner.
AS: Yes.
Well Turner was already on his second tour and he actually, Turner was more or less friendly with the squadron commander and he picked his, picked his targets meaning he would say if it was an easy one. I mean, he’d always go on easy target rather than going on a difficult one.
AS: This was your pilot?
JB: Yeah. He was friendly with the boss and sometimes we, we didn’t -
AS: When, when you kitted up. You go out, I suppose in a lorry or a bus to the aeroplane.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Did you have lots of checks or lots of time sitting about?
JB: No. We, we, we usually knew you would actually quite often it was a matter in the summer, I remember in the summertime when we were briefed we were, we were out sitting on the grass outside the er, the, the, where all the kit was. We would get our kit and more or less walk out and just sit on the grass for quite a long while before we’d get ready and go out to the plane. So you didn’t stay long outside the plane. You stayed quite a long time outside the briefing and that but you would actually, I mean, quite often it was a case quite often we would be sitting there and you would have WAAFs that were sort of there not going anywhere and their boyfriends were going to be flying they would, they would be down outside the shed talking to us you know where and we would then go and fly. They would more or less go back in to the mess and have a drink. They didn’t actually go out because they didn’t want to because you were the one that was going to be away and they didn’t want to go out without you.
AS: And so at this stage you all knew where you were going but they didn’t know where you were going.
JB: No. Well, yes that’s right. Oh yeah. Nobody knew. You kept it. Yes. I mean that was the one thing actually that they knew not to ask. You know, I mean it was a case of we knew, they didn’t but they knew not to bother asking us. We wouldn’t tell them.
AS: So you’re, you’re in the aeroplane. You’re, you’re fired up. You’re on the taxi-way waiting to go and you get the green light. You were talking earlier about climbing to height. Did you generally climb on course or did you go to Mablethorpe or something like that and climb before you set course.
JB: No, now you mention Mablethorpe but what happened often was that you would actually, because most of Bomber Command were actually on the east side of the country so what happened was that we would take off and we would climb up towards sort of [ ? ] if you like and then call it that and do it in such a way that by the time we get to the English coast and you’re almost at height if it’s, if it’s going to be a Ruhr, a Ruhr target you actually get to the actual height before, before the, you get to the English coast especially if the North Sea is a bit narrow you know and you, you more or less climb up like that you know. On one occasion we caught, when you get experienced you then take a new, a pilot who joins a squadron quite often if you’re on a raid they would ask you to take this pilot as an experience for him. Well in actual fact what happened actually is that the pilot actually we had a pilot sitting next to the flight engineer was actually standing where the second pilot is in his seat up next to the front, next to the pilot. The pilot is on the left and the other pilot, other passenger, is sitting there. We’ve actually had it one night we were, I’ll always remember, it was we were going down, it must have been to North Italy or somewhere. We were flying down through England and this rookie was sitting beside the pilot and he didn’t have his intercom on and he saw a plane coming to hit us and he, he actually, it was almost a collision and the pilot actually saw it himself and threw the plane out er and prevented an accident but it was a very, very close thing where the pilot, after that he actually then more or less told any passenger that, ‘When you’re, when you’re sitting beside me never actually, have your mic on, no, ‘Have your mic on so that if you see something you can speak.’ And so after that near, near miss which was early on in our tour, we um he nearly caused an accident. We very seldom, I don’t think we ever saw any collisions but there must have been quite a number which were near, near the mark. Yeah.
AS: Gosh.
JB: Yeah.
AS: On the, on the homeward trip um did you use Gee to navigate back to base?
JB: We usually, we, we, er, we, we never actually, we never, we never used Gee unless we were coming from north of Scotland down to maybe, to Norway or something like that, you know. We would possibly do it then but going across into Holland or France I mean we never actually left it to chance. We always more or less made sure that we were actually defending if you like. Flying in a defensive way. Yeah.
AS: On, on the way back what was your skipper’s habit? Did he want to be the first one home? Did he, did he pour on the petrol? Or, or -
JB: He did, we actually always tried to be first back [laughs] and I mean, I mean he was, I mean it was a case of, it was a case of being safe you know and it’s safer if you’re up front than you are at the back. You’re way worse at the back.
AS: What was it like when you were back near the airfield in the circuit?
JB: Yeah.
AS: Does it get very busy? Very –
JB: Yeah.
AS: Very scary?
JB: Yeah. It was actually because usually there’s two squadrons at each aerodrome you know. So it’s a matter of, you know, it’s dodgy, you know and you’ve got to be, you’ve got to be very alert because when you’re circling around, you know, it’s quite easy to be on the same sort of level as somebody else. I don’t think I, we never heard of anybody being in a collision but I mean there must have been a lot of near misses.
AS: In, in the circuit was it just the pilot that could hear air traffic control or could you hear it to keep a check on it as well?
JB: Everybody can hear, yeah. Yeah.
AS: So when he’s given a height to fly in the circuit -
JB: Ahum.
AS: You’re all listening in.
JB: Yeah. Yeah ahum.
AS: So that’s it. You’re in a circuit.
JB: Ahum.
AS: On the runway, finished with engines. What, what happened then?
JB: Ahum.
AS: You were taken off to a debrief? What happened in the debrief?
JB: Usually, usually you go in and there’s some WAAFs there dishing up coffee or tea. So you would actually, there was if you were first to get there, and then there’s a bit of a queue forms as the sort of bulk of them come in and they get, have a drink and then you go and they usually had quite a number of debriefings going on so that we weren’t held up too badly and usually the, the actual reporting back you, anybody who was really, had been in, in some sort of mix-ups or something you know they have to get all the time they need to report back so that it’s, it’s of advantage to any other crews as to what happens. Gets the, you know, that everybody’s sort of wanting to know how he got on or he, what happened to him and so on.
AS: So you were keen to know that your friends in other crews had, had got back.
JB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AS: That, that can’t have always been the case.
JB: Oh no. In the Ruhr, I mean when we did bombing the Ruhr I mean we, we lost six one night you know. There would be a, sort of, sixteen crews and we would have, we’d lose six in a night. No. It got pretty nasty and it was a matter of luck really. Yeah.
AS: Luck and -
JB: Yeah.
AS: Crew training and discipline. Yeah.
JB: Yeah. Yeah.
AS: In the, in the debrief did you, did they interrogate your, your navigation log? Did you need to -
JB: Usually it’s um we’re all, the three, we’re all, the pilot, the navigator the bomb aimer and the flight engineer they’re more or less the ones who’re the ones who were up in the front and the gunners and the bomb aimers they actually are not so that you’re, there’s some of them who were back leaving it to the pilot and the rest to do, do any reporting so that they they’re the ones who would usually have unless the rear gunner who had been attacked you wouldn’t actually have any assistance from a rear gunner. No. I mean it’s quite often, quite often that they do nothing actually because it may be a quiet night. Yeah.
AS: Well that’s a good trip isn’t it?
JB: Yeah. Yeah.
AS: I think we’ll pause there, Jim. Thank you.
JB: Right. Yeah.
[pause]
AS: Jim, we’ve talked quite a lot about navigation. The black art –
JB: Yeah.
AS: Of navigation and your, your first tour.
JB: Ahum.
AS: And some of the incidents that happened.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Can we, can we now move on to after April.
JB: Right.
AS: In 1944. When you’d finished your first tour.
JB: Ok.
AS: What happened then? It must have been a massive party. Was there?
JB: [laughs] Oddly enough you know it sort of, it fizzled. Yes, it’s amazing really. Yeah.
AS: Well relief rather than -
JB: Yeah.
AS: Very low key was it?
JB: Ahum.
AS: Ok. ‘Cause you must have been the senior crew on the squadron then.
JB: Oh yes. We were. Yes.
AS: What happened then? After your end of tour had fizzled. What, where did you, what happened next? Did you have leave?
JB: Well we, we, we, we moved out. We actually went various places. I, what, what have you got there? Um -
AS: 14 OTU.
JB: 14 OTU yes. That was, that was an instructing at 14 OTU and the next one along as well was um 12 or something. The next OTU.
AS: Ok. So the crew had, had broken up by then?
JB: Ahum.
AS: And you all went your separate ways.
JB: Separate ways yeah.
AS: Ok. Did you keep in touch afterwards?
JB: We didn’t actually. We, we um well in actual fact I did with one chappy but none of the rest of them. No.
AS: Ok. Who was that? Which one?
JB: Yeah. He was the bomb aimer. Freeth I think his name.
AS: Ok. Did, did you know him from before -
JB: No.
AS: Before you were in -
JB: No. No.
AS: Ok. But the others, the others just went their separate ways.
JB: Yeah. Fizzled off, yes.
AS: Ok.
JB: Ahum.
AS: Did you choose to be a nav instructor or did you just get posted?
JB: Well actually it was a case of you had, it was a case of um being posted because I was a navigator. You know it was sort of automatic.
AS: Did they teach you how to instruct or just -
JB: No.
AS: Throw you into the -
JB: No.
AS: Deep end.
JB: Just, that’s right. That’s the deep end. Swim [laughs]
AS: Um what, what were your duties? Did you, did you teach navigation from beginning to end or did you do the airborne piece? What, what were your duties?
JB: Well it was really what we, what we had, what was offered to us if you like with that than choosing. It sort of happened, if you like.
AS: A posting. So this, you were at an operational training unit so, so you’d have crews or navigators who knew how to navigate.
JB: Yes.
AS: And you were teaching them the operational stuff were you?
JB: That’s right, yeah. Yes. Yes.
AS: Did you feel safe flying with other crews?
JB: I suppose you did. Yes. You know, No, I never felt, I was never worried if you like. No. No. Yes.
AS: And then to, to 12 OTU. The same thing I guess.
JB: Yes, that was the same thing. Which one is 12? What’s the name of it?
AS: Chipping Warden.
JB: Chipping warden ah huh.
AS: Where’s that?
JB: Isn’t it, it’s down in that neck of the woods, same as, same as, as this one here. That one there is Market Harborough, was it? Market Har. Yes. Quite close, quite close to Market Harborough.
AS: Ok.
JB: Ahum.
AS: And on, on Wellingtons again.
JB: Yes. Right. Yes.
AS: And did the, by this time did the training aircraft have, the Wellingtons, did they have Gee as well?
JB: They were all Wellingtons. So, Wellingtons yeah.
AS: So that was a step backwards from the, from the Lancaster.
JB: Yeah.
AS: So you’re, you’re flying with a lot of different crews.
JB: Yes ahum.
AS: Do, do you remember what these mean 92/4, 92/1? It’s a long time ago.
JB: Now, I’m just trying to think now. [pause] No.
AS: No. It doesn’t matter.
JB: No.
AS: It could be anything couldn’t it?
JB: Yes.
AS: It could be anything. But no, no incidents so -
JB: No.
AS: You haven’t had to jump out of any more Wellingtons
JB: No [laughs] [Phone ringing in background] Gwen will take it.
AS: A lot of instructional flying and these
JB: Yes.
AS: Same exercises going on. When did you receive your DFC? Because you got a DFC. Was that -
JB: That was at the end of um, um [pause] it was because these ones 12 and 14 they were at the end and it was more or less about that time. Yes.
AS: So you got your, your DFC for your tour of operational flight.
JB: Tour of, yes.
AS: Yeah. Can you remember anything about the citation? What the citation said?
JB: I don’t.
AS: No. Ok. It’s a long, a long time ago.
JB: Yes. Yes.
AS: But that is, that is recognition isn’t it?
JB: Oh yes. Oh yes.
AS: Of, of good service. Yes.
JB: Yes.
AS: And your, your pilot had the, the DFM did he get the DFC as well?
JB: Well the DFM, he was that chap, he was a Scotsman which, his name, his name was -
AS: Turner.
JB: Turner.
AS: Yeah, I think it was Turner. Yeah. Flying Officer Turner.
JB: Turner
AS: Yeah.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Did he get a DFC as well?
JB: I don’t remember actually because if I, if I, if, I would have to put him in again but I don’t think he’s shown as a DFC DFM.
AS: No.
JB: No ahum.
AS: So, more instructional flying.
JB: Yes.
AS: Into December of, of ’44.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: And then I believe you joined an incredibly famous squadron.
[laughs]
AS: What was that all about? What happened there? You went back on ops.
JB: I, I actually that was um I think I was there. I think I was there.
AS: Ahum.
JB: You know and it was a case of push him, push him in there rather than somebody else.
AS: Ok ‘cause I thought you’d have been done with operational flying but did you volunteer for a second tour or, or you were pushed a bit were you?
JB: It was, it was a case of just of being there.
AS: Ahum.
JB: You know where, you know [laughs] yes
AS: So this by April, by April 1945 you were doing formation flying and bombing practice with 617 squadron.
JB: Yes.
AS: At Woodhall Spa.
JB: Woodhall Spa. Yes.
AS: With Flying Officer Frost DFC.
JB: Frost. Yes
AS: As your, as your pilot.
JB: Yes.
AS: Did you choose him? Did he choose you? Or –
JB: I think, I think I flew with him before actually so he was, it was a bit of um being there.
AS: Ok. So you flew with him when you were um at the, at the OTU.
JB: OTU yeah.
AS: Ok.
JB: Ahum.
AS: Ok. And so that’s April 1945.
JB: 1945 yes.
AS: And that was 617 squadron at Woodhall Spa.
JB: Woodhall Spa.
AS: And another operation almost at the very end of the war.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: Where’s that one to? What was that one all about?
JB: I’m just trying to remember actually.
AS: I think it was Berchtesgaden was it? That’s -
JB: Berchtesgaden. Yeah.
AS: And that was Hitler’s -
JB: That was, that was actually um right down south of Berlin, South Germany.
AS: South of Munich. Yeah.
JB: Yes.
AS: Yes. Was that, that was daylight was it?
JB: Yes. I mean it was, yeah, very late on. That was late on, yeah ahum.
AS: And did, did you come out from behind your curtain on that one to see all the aeroplanes in the air?
[laughs]
AS: Or did you just stay in your, in your little navigator’s hutch -
JB: I think actually I usually stayed in, stayed in the [laughs] the hut [laughs] as you call it. Yes.
AS: Sensible I think.
JB: Ahum yes.
AS: And that very late on -
JB: Ahum
AS: Was the, the end of your, your operational flying?
JB: Operational flying yes. Yeah.
AS: Can you remember when you heard that the war was over and what happened? I’ll be surprised if you could because it’s so long ago but -
JB: Yes.
AS: It’s, perhaps was there something that, that made a real impression.
JB: Yes. I don’t think so. I don’t think anything really sort of stood out.
AS: Ahum.
JB: No. It, it was, yes, it happened.
AS: Yeah.
JB: But ahum.
AS: But the, the flying continued.
JB: Yes.
AS: On, on the squadron.
JB: Ahum.
AS: But non-operational.
JB: No. No. Yeah. Yes
AS: But, but formation flying, fighter affiliation, high level bombing. So this is all keeping the skills -
JB: Ahum.
AS: For the crew isn’t it?
JB: Yes. Yes. That’s right.
AS: And onwards through to the end of May and still, still -
JB: Ahum.
AS: A lot of training flying.
JB: Ahum.
AS: And then incendiary dropping. Now was this the getting rid of the stocks of bombs?
JB: Yeah. Actually I don’t actually know why, as you say. [pause]
AS: Was this, was this dropping them in the sea?
JB: I don’t think so.
AS: Ok.
JB: No. No.
AS: It’s a, it’s a very, very long time ago.
JB: Yeah.
AS: Stornoway. That was, that’s back up to Scotland that is.
JB: Ahum?
AS: That’s a long, long way to fly. Back up to Stornoway from Woodhall Spa. And then your logbook showing for June at Waddington.
JB: Yes.
AS: Oh and a cook’s tour.
JB: Ah.
AS: Tell me all about cook’s tour. Please.
JB: Er -
AS: June the 26th 1945. Cook’s tour.
[pause]
JB: Gosh, er no it’s not.
JB: That says Gladbach, Cologne, Koblenz, Frankfurt, Darmstadt, Mannheim, Saarbrucken.
JB: Ahum
AS: That’s a real -
JB: Yes.
AS: Round, round robin.
JB: It is isn’t it?
AS: Was that to, to see all the damage?
JB: It looks like it really because as you say by the scatter of it. Yes. Yeah
AS: But nothing particularly sticks in your mind?
JB: No.
AS: From that.
JB: No.
AS: Ok. So -
[pause]
JB: Which one is that?
AS: This is still, this is the middle of July now.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: Loran cross country sticks out on that one.
JB: Ahum.
AS: So by that time do you recall the loran system being put in your, in your aircraft?
JB: Um.
AS: Long range navigation.
JB: Oh gosh. [pause]. What other ones are there there?
AS: There’s a bullseye.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: H2S cross country.
JB: Yeah
AS: Good lord. Formation flying and quick landings. Nine aircraft in three minutes.
[laughs]
AS: Now that is dangerous.
JB: Yes. That was going one.
AS: That is dangerous. Yeah.
JB: Yes. Yes. By Jove.
AS: One every twenty seconds.
JB: That took some doing you know. Now you mention it. Obviously, it was done.
AS: Ahum.
JB: You know. Yes. What’s this one here?
AS: High level bombing.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: It’s practice I think.
JB: Yes. That’s, that, that’s the only time that happened isn’t it? There.
AS: I think so. I certainly wouldn’t like to do it too often.
JB: No. Yeah but that’s, yeah.
AS: Maybe best not to look back on that one.
JB: It is. Yeah.
AS: Circuits and bumps with a Squadron Leader [Sawley]
JB: Ahum.
AS: The thing that, that stands out, is, is how much flying you did after the war-
JB: After the war.
AS: Was over. Just keeping current.
JB: Yes. Yeah. Yes. It is.
AS: So it seems the -
JB: Yes.
AS: The squadron very much wanted to be on top line even though it was peacetime.
JB: Yes. Yes. Yes.
AS: And did you, can you remember, you stay together as a crew over this period or did people start to drift away?
JB: Exactly. I can’t remember.
AS: Ok.
JB: No. [pause] Yes. No.
AS: And then a trip to, in September, still on 617. A trip to Gatow. Can you remember, can you remember flying to Berlin?
JB: Gatow.
AS: Ahum.
JB: Yeah [pause] No. No.
AS: Not to worry. Ok.
JB: ‘Cause that’s East Germany.
AS: It is now yes, well it was then, yes. It, yeah, it was one of the airfields, that was one of the airfields, that’s one of the airfields for the Berlin airlift wasn’t it? Gatow.
JB: Yes.
AS: I think.
JB: Gosh. Yes.
AS: No worries. So lots and lots of keeping -
JB: Ahum yes.
AS: Keeping current.
JB: Keeping. Yes. Same again.
AS: Ok.
JB: Yeah.
AS: All on 617.
JB: Ahum.
AS: B flight.
JB: Ahum.
AS: So, who was, who was the OC of 617 at that stage?
JB: I should have him down here on the signature, signatures.
AS: Ok. I can read your signature. I can’t read that one.
JB: Ahum.
AS: It doesn’t matter. It’s just - ah there we go. Operation Dodge to Bari. Can you tell me -
JB: Ahum.
AS: A little about Operation Dodge?
JB: Dodge.
AS: Yeah. This is down to Italy to um -
JB: To Bari in Italy.
AS: Yeah. And what were you doing there?
JB: There’s only Bari, I think it still is, Bari is only one that we ever went to um and the odd thing is that sometimes you went down to Bari and of course it’s on the east side.
AS: Ahum.
JB: So the thing is there that if we actually got there then the weather closed down. The, the mountains down the centre of Italy, you had to get to ten thousand feet above. You had to be able to fly at ten thousand feet or you couldn’t go.
AS: Ahum.
JB: And what happened was that on many occasions we got down there and then we landed in Bari and then to come home we couldn’t because of the ten thousand feet mountains. We couldn’t. We couldn’t actually, there was no means unless on the way and anyway we never did it. We used to go down and around because obviously that was quite a long way so of course we couldn’t do it.
AS: So you were, so you were flying down there on Operation Dodge.
JB: Yes.
AS: And was this to bring the prisoners of war back?
JB: To, yes, or to take our chappies home.
AS: Ahum.
JB: Who, who were actually had been down there on duty and to get them home quickly.
AS: The eighth army?
JB: Yeah, well no, more the, more the RAF personnel. Not so much the army. Yes, yeah.
AS: So how many people could you take at a time or did you take at a time?
JB: I think it would be about thirty in a Lanc. It meant that, the thing was that you were only taking some down this side and some on that side, feet inwards you see so that it was actually a very poor idea really but it was a means to an end. You know. You could do it.
AS: A bit like Ryanair nowadays.
JB: [laughs] Yeah, yes. These are, that’s the same is it?
AS: Yeah, I think so. And then we see some, some flights as a, as a passenger and a couple of flights as an engineer.
JB: Oh.
AS: On duty.
JB: [laughs] That was, that’s, they’re all the same sort of mixture are they?
AS: Yeah [local flying?] and we’re now up to, to January ’46.
JB: Oh.
AS: When -
JB: Ahum.
AS: I think. Do you, you’re down there as SHQ RAF station Waddington so, so had you come off the squadron by then?
JB: By then, well I’m at a squadron at Waddington.
AS: Ok.
JB: So I must have been involved in some way. Yes.
AS: And then in January ’46 you were posted away from Bomber Command to 1333.
JB: Transport.
AS: Transport TSCU. What’s, what’s that?
JB: TS.
AS: CU. Something. Conversion unit I suppose?
JB: Ahum.
JB: At Syerston again. Back to Syerston.
JB: Back to Syerston oh. Oh.
AS: So that was a conversion unit.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: And you were then crewed on Dakotas.
JB: Oh that’s also Syerston.
AS: Yeah.
JB: Yes. Yeah.
AS: For, for local flying.
JB: Yeah. That was, that was at the very end actually. That’s -
AS: Ahum.
JB: That was in, yeah.
AS: And so by, by the end of May -
JB: Ahum.
AS: You’d finished flying with the, the Royal Air Force.
JB: Ah huh.
AS: Or so you thought.
JB: I was Transport Command. Was it?
AS: Yeah.
JB: Yeah.
AS: So you thought you’d finished flying with the Royal Air Force but sometime later -
JB: Oh.
AS: In, was it 1999? I think -
[laughs]
AS: You flew again with the air force. What was all that about? Can you tell me about that?
JB: Now that there actually is, was that the Battle of Britain?
AS: Yeah. Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.
JB: Yes.
AS: RAF Coningsby. And in your logbook.
JB: Yes.
AS: Is probably the most famous Lancaster of them all.
JB: Yes it was.
AS: So, so you’ve flown in the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Lancaster.
JB: Yes. Yes.
AS: Gosh.
JB: Yeah. That’s right [laughs] Yes. That was the last time. Yeah
AS: That must have brought some memories back.
JB: Oh yeah. Yes, I mean it er that, that was the, I mean I think actually I had come out to Syerston especially for this. Yes. Gosh.
AS: How long did you stay in the air force after you’d finished flying and what did you do?
JB: I left. I left, I left the air force and I went back, I went back to the company that I worked for when I joined and I wasn’t, I was annoyed with them because I went back to the same job as I was doing before I joined up and I, I never really got on with the manager. He and I just didn’t, didn’t, didn’t mix and I actually, I left the company and I went back to a previous company that I had been associated with and I only stayed there only for a short time because I then, I always remember ‘cause I was, I was married then and I, I, I started going to the other side of Glasgow. I was travelling, leaving home at seven o’clock in the morning and not getting home till about seven o’clock at night because that was the only job that seemed to be available and I, and in the end actually I -
[pause]
And I’m just trying to remember what happened.
AS: Ahum.
JB: Because I always remember I was working down by the Clyde, is the river Clyde and I can remember, the one thing that I remember is something that that happened and I missed it and I missed it really annoyingly because what happened was that this factory that I worked for there was another shipyard adjoining and this shipyard adjoining was launching a ship. Well, all the time I’d worked on the Clyde I had never seen a launching of a ship and I remember that that particular company was launching a ship this particular day and I told the people that I was associated working for that I must, I must see that and you know, what happened and I’ve been baffled by it ever since and I’m still baffled today is that I never knew why I missed it and it was launched and I actually was, I was there, I was there and for some reason somebody diverted to me which must have been something important to, to miss it because obviously everything was lined up for me to see it and I, and I missed it. I’m still, and so I never saw a launch.
AS: But you got the navigation right.
JB: [laughs]
AS: You were in the right place at the right time.
JB: [laughs]
JB: It was amazing.
AS: Was it - I know, I know operation flying was a dangerous business and non-operational flying too but was it difficult to adjust? Did you miss it? Did you miss the air force life and particularly the flying or did you just file it away and get on with the next stage of your life?
JB: That second.
AS: The second one
JB: The second one yeah. It, it actually, you could say it was the same that happened with that launch. For some reason I mean I actually I missed the launch and I also missed other things as well afterwards and they never, it never, it never happened, you know. Something in life that didn’t happen and never will.
AS: You’ve never seen a ship launch.
JB: That’s right. Yeah.
AS: We talked earlier about the crew dispersing.
JB: Yeah.
AS: And you losing contact with most except for -
JB: Ahum.
AS: Your bomb aimer, yet you, I think you’ve come to the 50/61 Squadron Association and that has become quite important to you. When -
JB: Yes.
AS: When did you start coming in the, in to that reunion if you like? That memories -
JB: Yes.
AS: Side of life?
[pause]
JB: I went, I went back actually. I went back to the position I was in to work for a manager that I didn’t like.
AS: Ahum.
JB: That manager that I didn’t like and he didn’t have a very good opinion of me. So that was where things sort of didn’t happen. That’s right it didn’t go that way it went that way and that’s what happened and I went back to, right back to the sort of beginning.
AS: And just and parked the air force side of your life for-
JB: Yes.
AS: For a long time.
JB: Yeah. Yeah.
AS: But then, then at some stage you got involved with the squadron association didn’t you?
JB: Yes.
AS: Your tie there. And has that been fun? Has that been good? To meet other Bomber Command veterans and talk to them?
JB: I’m just, I’m just trying to think actually um I must have, I must have met some.
AS: Ahum.
JB: Yes I must have met some but I don’t. There seems to be a sort of a bit of a, well there wasn’t a join it was more something that should have happened and didn’t happen.
AS: Yeah.
JB: If you like, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
AS: Right. Well we’ll pause the tape there and then perhaps we can -
JB: Yes.
AS: Have a look at some of your navigation log.
JB: Right. Yes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jamie Barr
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adam Sutch
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Format
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02:26:09 audio recording
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABarrJ150731, PBarrJ1506
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending OH summary
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Barr grew up in Scotland and worked as an apprentice engineer before volunteering for the Royal Air Force. He trained as a navigator in South Africa and flew operations with 61 Squadron. He describes what it was like to be a navigator with Bomber Command and what it was like to re-enter civilian life after the war.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
South Africa
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
12 OTU
1661 HCU
61 Squadron
617 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Cook’s tour
crash
Distinguished Flying Cross
Gee
H2S
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Manchester
military service conditions
navigator
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Winthorpe
RAF Woodhall Spa
RAF Wyton
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/475/8357/PBoyntonS1512.1.jpg
b8f48f9aeb2acc9b01ed571e88e5da23
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/475/8357/ABoyntonS150624.1.mp3
0ed41bfbe8c8db1cab395ef730cc5b81
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Boynton, Stuart
Thomas Stuart Boynton
T S Boynton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Boynton, S
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Stuart Boynton (1622415 Royal Air Force), He served as an air gunner with 103 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Stuart Boynton and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
TSB. 1923,19,1939 I left Bridlington Grammar School eh, then, which I didn’t join the RAF straight away I joined the Air Training Corps, I was in there for about a year and a half. The war had already started after about a year and a half I thought well I’ll volunteer for Aircrew, which I went down to London, passed with flying colours, as I think and after that I was eh. I am trying to think where I went after various placed in the RAF in England. I was in Harrogate, I was in, up at South Shields. Then, I am trying to think of it, dates. That’s 1939 so, in after I had been in the RAF a few months I was posted to South Africa and my first wife and I then decided, ‘shall we get married and save the money until the war’s finished?’ Which, I got married when I was only twenty it was in the February ’43. And eh, the next within a week of being married I was transferred to South Africa where I, where I was on the Ansons, flying in the Ansons. On returning from South Africa about a year afterwards I as posted to LLandwrog in Wales. While in Wales there was quite a lot of flying the Anson again and eh just before my birthday which was 21st of March 1924, 1924 yes my first birthday my I was, my was transferred, I was transferred and posted to Finningley which is now Doncaster Airfield. So, so in February 1923, I was born in ’23, 1943 I was flying to South Africa which I say after South Africa I went to LLandwrog. Getting to Finningley which is on 21st birthday which was 1944 I was travelling from LLandwrog to Finningley with a kit bag over my shoulder, that was my 21st birthday. So consequently I flew from Finningley, I was on the Wellingtons for a short time. Eh, a leaflet trip to Holland dropping leaflets then from Finningley I went to Lindholme just down the road onto Halifax’s. While there I had a leaflet trip again to Holland and then from Lindholme I was posted to Hemswell onto the Lancasters. From Hemswell I was posted to Elsham, that’s where I did my first operation. I am only guessing now, Elsham I should say get to Elsham some time in September which was ’44. Our first operational trip was early I should say early November and I you ask me what that was like I can only answer [unclear] It was absolutely horrendous. The flak and everything else was shocking we were caught in the eh, eh the searchlights. Anyway with a bit of luck we got home safely. I just said to skipper ‘I am pleased were back from that,’ I said ‘ thirty trips like this we will double grave before we get to thirty trips.’ Anyway that was all right, we went into land, as we landed we flew straight off the airfield. The plane went up on its side we were straight off, all flat tyres. so that was the first one. After that most of our trips was over what we call the Happy Valley which was the German Steel places, Essen, most of mine was to Essen. Anyway we flew to Essen, we was very pleased to get back. Anyway we did about another ten trips after that ten or eleven trips after that. A couple of pretty bad ones after that but the biggest majority were what you call very easy. The last one we never made as we were coming on our way back, we had a very easy trip, a very quiet trip. The Rear Gunner said ‘We got a; fighter on our port side Skipper.’ Anyway he tried to do the evasive did a bit of a mm a mm, tried to get rid of him anyway. Consequently after about ten minutes, half an hour. Oh I thought we were on our way home. The next thing I knew was the Pilot saying ‘Abandon aircraft were on fire.’ I said, I was I went off in rotation. Just as I was going I saw, three [unclear] last thing I remember saying to my Skipper ‘I’ll see you down stairs Phil.’ With that I was pulling me ‘chute, just as I was pulling me ‘chute, I just heard on intercom the Rear Gunner say ‘Christ I’ve pulled me ‘chute.’ With that I’d gone, I didn’t know what happened after that. But what happened after that I was, only left on the plane was the Pilot, the Rear Gunner and the Mid Upper both the Gunners were Canadians. The young lad I thought I was the ablest, the youngest twenty one. Eddie was only just turned eight, nineteen for all I know he panicked and wouldn’t jump with the Mid Upper, Canadian, wanted him to jump with him, but he refused to jump. ‘No I’m not jumping.’ So all the Pilot said to Mid Upper ‘Get yourself off I’ll try to land the plane.’ The Mid Upper said, he jumped, as his ‘chute opened, all he saw was the wing dropped off with that the plane went straight into the ground, both killed. I have always said, I have always tried to find out to find out why this time, he was a bit older than me but had got two daughters. His wife had left Jersey, she was living in a hotel. Where ever he went she was living in hotels. So what she was left with was two daughters, no home to go to. I said I’ll, I always said he should have got decorated but he never did. So that is about all that I can say about that. So anyway when we was, when we were shot down we were taken to just a little village near from where we was shot down. They had seen us coming down so we had no chance of escaping. So they put me into a billet a Nissan hut with about thirty young Germans in. As I went in I was the only one of the crew that at the time, they found. I thought ‘well I am going to get knocked about here with all these lads.’ I had been in there about half an hour, one of them sidled up to me ‘there you are,’ gave me a bit of their ersatz bread. I thought it was awful, I put it in me pocket. Anyway about another half hour went by another young lad came, German lad, could speak, he could speak a bit of English. He just said ‘ me was a prisoner of Americans me look after you.’ With that he gave me a couple of blankets for the night. That is about all I could say about them, they were very good. But even today I still think now that would be December 1944 we were shot down. Even today he said, ah that is what he did say to me, ‘We have,’ when I was in this Nissan hut, ‘you have broken our lines we are now going to push you back.’ I never thought anything more about that at all until after the war. It must have been what you called ‘The Battle of the Bulge.’ So automatically now I often think ‘ I wonder if there are any of these young lads still living today?’ That’s all, that’s all I can say about that one. So after that we, we I was posted to eh, I can’t remember the name where was it, posted into Poland and one night, one morning woke up, right evacuating the camp. The Russians were coming very close to where, to where we were, so we had to, as the Russians were advancing we had to march away from them. So we were on, in the middle of winter, we were marching until about one or two in the morning carried on might have been one or two weeks, I don’t know. But there again I was one of the lucky ones, the last morning we were on the walk we’d get into farm, I’d went into the farm I were in the barn. I was one of the last in the barn and this would be one o’clock in the morning. When I woke up, whatever time it was, I don’t know all I can say it was light, it could have been five o’clock in the morning. There I was laid outside where it was twenty degrees below. I went, I couldn’t, me hands were, I couldn’t get me hands together, me feet was frozen, I said ‘ the only thing if the lads lit a fire.’ Got warmed up within two or three hours we were back on the wa,march again. So consequently we marched and again for another week, how long I don’t know. Once again I was very lucky one day they just piled all our section, our section were piled into rail trucks and how many were in the trucks I don’t know how we got on for weeing or whatever I don’t know how we got on about that. All I know before it took us about a day a day and a half on this truck, finished up somewhere near Berlin. That is when the Russians liberated us which was what I gather, I don’t know. I don’t know [unclear] prisoners. Once again I would be guessing but it was sometime in April time, May. I don’t know when the war finished. But once they, I always remember the Russians coming through our camp knocking all the fences down. There were men and women on the tanks, just the same and I must admit at the time I thought ‘well they are just like a pack a bandit these lot.’ We got on well with them, they didn’t bother with us, we didn’t bother with them. They would not, we were there two or three weeks at least, the Americans sent a couple of Troops to move us and they said ‘ you are going when it is out turn, we will let you know when you are going.’ So we got fed up of waiting, one day we set off from the camp ‘we will make our way to the Elbe to get across ourselves.’ So we [unclear] a mile down the road next thing we got, the Russians were in front of us back to the camp ‘ you go when we tell you.’ Consequently eh why I know a bit about the time there eh when they did allow us to go we got to Brussels, we got a bit of money, we got showered and everything, money we had a night out in, in Brussels. Consequently when I got back home my second birthday was May the 23rd 1945, So but, so consequently I didn’t get back for me twenty first, I didn’t get back until after me birthday which would be after the 23rd 1945. Consequently I was one of the last prisoners back so I got indefinite leave. So indefinite leave I was posted, well I was in Bridlington, got posted to Scarborough so I was backwards and forwards from Brid to Scarborough for about three or four months. Finally when the war finished they decided aircrew you could [unclear] aircrew but you could only go as ground crew. I just had to come out, I came out of the forces. So that’s about all I can tell you, that’s about it in a nutshell. That’s about all I could say. My Pilot was one of the last to leave Jersey before the Germans occupied Jersey. He was on the last boat to leave, his wife went with him, a young girl, went with him. They got married before they [unclear] over to England and where ever he was posted, Phil, she was in the hotel somewhere. She followed him around so there she was when he got shot down she was stood there on her own with two kids and that’s why I think he should have got married. The main thing of all so consequently I knew Phil only five months of my life and for seventy odd years I have never forgotten him [appears upset].
MJ. You shouldn’t you don’t have to worry, that’s part of it you see.
TSB. Yeah and all that I can say is that a marvellous lad, man, fellow.
MJ. Do you remember his full name, do you remember his full name, do you remember his name?
TSB. Phillip.
MJ. Do you remember his surname?
TSB. Picot that all it was and consequently I mentioned the two daughters and his three aunties all the rest of the family have all died. But the daughters have married very well they are very happy. Two lovely families two and two and eh three aunties I think they have all lost their husbands. But they are all lovely people, lovely people.
MJ. Went to London for your medical ?. [?].[unclear]
TSB. Yeah I can’t think [unclear] I know I went from Kings Cross [unclear] I walked from Kings Cross I can’t remember where it was now but I nineteen, as I say about eighteen to nineteen I was twenty three ‘40 to 1942 I should think would be when I came in forces, long time [laugh]. But eh no at least I have often said eh you have got your memories haven’t you, they are worth a lot your memories. That is why I get so sentimental with Phil my Pilot because as I say I only knew him five months. We were very friendly, we were very very friendly. Not many days gone bye without I think something about him.
MJ. What made you so friendly, what what ?
TSB. I don’t know, just the crew, I think during the war you you, fact, you you made up as a crew, seven of you and I think they tried to keep that crew as separate as they could. So in other words eh anybody lost they weren’t missed as much, they look after themselves because each crew was more or less, they look after themselves. So whenever we went down to the pub the seven of us went out together eh at least most nights of the week, five or six but we always stuck together all the time we were flying. Your mates, you were what you call mates as simple as that. In other words at the end of the day unless you were lucky, you died together. But eh I say I have these thoughts many a time but I am very happy and [unclear] I have had a marvellous life, marvellous life. As I say one of my old aunties I used to see her ninety five or so, she fell down stairs, I have not forgot she turned round to us and she said ‘Stuart I don’t want anybody to live as long as I have lived,’ she said ‘ I am not ready for going yet’ she lived till ninety seven well I got to ninety two now and she was definitely the eldest of all of my family. If I could get to ninety eight whither I do or not, grace of Gods is that. Eh but if I get to ninety eight I shall finish up as the eldest one in the family that’s it.[laugh]. But she was a right battle axe was my auntie, she taught me a lot and I still think of her at ninety seven anyway I’ve got to ninety two whither I get to ninety five by the grace of God, you don’t know, you don’t know. One thing certain and a betting man and I used to like betting on the horses and that as a betting man one certainty is we all know we have to die sometime. It’s a good job we don’t know when. We do we all know we have got to go sometime. And I say when I talk about luck if I get to a hundred very good but whither I do or not you don’t know. There is a lot of luck in life as well you know some people are born lucky and some are [unclear]. And I don’t know about you, you had an accident didn’t you. Was it motor accident you had then?
MJ. Em I’ll make sure this is on, go on.
TSB. After the war my mother, well during the war my mother got a telegram eh, just missing. So she went berserk, demented, crackers then of course shortly after that, presumed killed. So that she is worse than ever then about a month after that somebody came dashing into mums shop at Hilderthorpe Road End Bridlington saying ‘Nellie, Nellie, Stuarts alive, Stuarts alive.’And how they got to know that, not from the Air Ministry it was given over the news by Lord Haw Haw that Flight Sergeant Boynton is now a prison of war in Germany. That’s the first time my Mother new I was living. And it wasn’t, she didn’t get it from the RAF or the Ministry, Lord Haw Haw made it over the news one night, one day that’s first thing, first time she knew I was living. [laugh] killed presumed dead, it was a totally different thing when she knew I was still living you see.
MJ. On behalf of the International Bomber Command I would like to thank Warrant Officer Stuart Boynton on the date of the 24th of June 2014. Thank you very much my name is Michael Jeffery.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stuart Boynton Interview
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mick Jeffery
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-24
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABoyntonS150624, PBoyntonS1512
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
During 1939 Stuart left grammar school and joined the Air Training Corps. After about half a year he volunteered for air crew and was accepted. He and his girlfriend were married in February 1943. Stuart was posted to South Africa working on Ansons and about a year later was posted to Llandwrog in Wales. His next postings were to RAF Finningley, flying in Wellingtons and to Holland dropping leaflets from a Halifax. From RAF Finningley he went to RAF Lindholme, RAF Hemswell and RAF Elsham Wolds. Stuart described his first operational trip as absolutely horrendous. Most of the crew’s trips were then to the Ruhr and the German steel works in Essen. After that they did another ten or eleven trips. During the last trip the crew had to abandon the aircraft when it was shot down and burst into flames. All but two of the crew (one being the pilot, Phil Picot) baled out before the aircraft hit the ground. Stuart was captured and taken to a hut which housed about 30 Germans, but he was treated well. Stuart was detained in Poland. Their camp had to evacuate during a winter night as the Russians were advancing. They were marching for two or three weeks before being taken to a camp in Berlin by rail. They were liberated and eventually Stuart was posted to RAF Scarborough. He came out of the at the end of the war and said he had had a marvellous life.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
South Africa
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Essen
Wales--Carmarthen
Netherlands
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1943-02
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:23:24 audio recording
aircrew
Anson
bale out
bombing
Halifax
Lancaster
love and romance
military ethos
pilot
prisoner of war
propaganda
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Finningley
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Llandwrog
the long march
training
Wellington
-
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/492/8378/PClarkRR1602.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/492/8378/AClarkRR160331.2.mp3
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Clark, Royston
R Clark
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Clark, RR
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Royston Clark (b. 1922). He flew operations as wireless operator with 101 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Diana and Royston Clarke and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
(DC) My husband’s name is Robert Royston Clarke and he joined the war in 1940 –
(RC) Yeah
(DC) - and he did all the training and took up flying on Lancasters, eventually he was shot down over Germany. So you can carry on, yeah?
(MJ) Yep.
(RC) I was shot down over, over Germany. What, what else did I do?
(DC) You erm, you were shot down over Berlin, weren’t you?
(RC) I was shot down over Berlin –
(DC) And er, you came down by parachute.
(RC) Yes, yes –
(DC) You thought you were, you thought, you thought you were too light to come down by parachute –
(RC) I did.
(DC) You thought you were going up –
(RC) That’s exactly –
(DC) And you looked up and it was just like going up to heaven. And –
(RC) Yeah
(DC) And you eventually came down to the ground, alright?
(RC) Yes.
(DC) Can you carry on from there?
(RC) When I, when I bailed out of the parachute and after being shot up by the Germans. When I I was parachuting out, I looked up and it looked as if I was coming down -
(DC) [Unclear]
(RC) Coming out the parachute coming down it wasn’t very happy –
(DC) And what happened when you got down?
(RC) What did?
(DC) That the – all these people grabbed you and took you down an air raid shelter, didn’t they?
(RC) Oh yeah. Hmm, they did.
(DC) And they going to cut your limbs, they wanted your clothes. They were arguing who was going to have your clothes.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And they were going to cut all your limbs off and throw you in the fire.
(RC) They was going to cut me fingers, me feet off, me toes. Silly bastards.
(DC) [Unclear]
(RC) Silly blighters.
(DC) You got your Mae West on, hadn’t you?
(RC) Yes.
(DC) And it had a light on it that flashed.
(RC) Yes
(DC) And as it flashed it, it flashed all of a sudden for no reason and the, the Germans thought it was a pistol, didn’t they?
(RC) Yes they did.
(DC) And they shouted in the language, ‘Pistol. Pistol’ and they all shot back, and you ran out up the steps as fast as you could and you got under a train in the railway station.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Alright?
(RC) Yeah, this er, when they were trying –and what was it? Shouting ‘Pistol, pistol’.
(AC) The people in the air raid shelter that had got you and they were going to throw you in the fire. Didn’t - weren’t they?
(RC) Yes, because the - yeah.
(DC) You got out, under the train, and as you, you got underneath the train, and as you were going along, you were getting cold and wet from the steam and all that sort of thing, and you got up and gradually they pulled in at a station and you sneaked in and you got on top of a carriage, didn’t you?
(RC) That’s right.
(DC) A freight carriage.
(RC) Yes.
(DC) And then as you started off, you were going along and along, and you didn’t realise at the time that you were laying on top of poles, weren’t you? Metal poles.
(RC) That’s right.
(DC) And it was trudging along, you were gradually going down and down in these tru -poles. So you had to get out of that and lay across them the other way. And then, eventually, you, you were on the run a little bit, weren’t you? But eventually you were captured.
(RC) Yeah. The Germans didn’t like me.
(MJ) Why didn’t they like you?
(RC) [Chuckle]. The Germans and I were not very good friends during the war.
(DC) What he did – he er, he got a bicycle and –
(RC) I did.
(DC) Was [unclear] before he was captured, and he was going along and then he saw the troops coming towards him, and he went round the island the wrong way and obviously, they stopped him and found out – he said he was French. And the chap he spoke to him in French and it was the Vichy, Vichy French.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And it was the Vichy French uniforms, and they captured him then and you were put in prison after that, weren’t you?
(RC) They didn’t like me.
(DC) You were interviewed by a German officer. Wanted to know all the details of his camp –
(RC) Yes.
(DC) His crew and different things and you wouldn’t tell them anything. And they was - they got guards who come marching in and he said, ‘You will be shot’, and er, and he wouldn’t tell them anything. He said, ‘I should tell you nothing’, he said, ‘If you shoot me now -‘
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) He kept trying to get information out of you, didn’t he?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) But you wouldn’t give any of the information and –
(RC) They kept asking me questions about this, and I said, ‘Actually I can’t say anything about it’. He - they said, ‘So we’ll shoot ya’. He said, ’If you don’t –‘
(DC) You said, you said, ‘If you were in my place, would you say anything?’ He said, ‘I’m not in your place’. And he says, ‘So we are going to shoot ya’. And then -
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And then he marched the guards out. He shook his hand, and he says, ‘You are a good solider’. And gave you a cigarette and a drink.
(RC) He did indeed, yes.
(DC) That was one little bit, wasn’t it?
(RC) Yeah. To, to have a cigarette off a bloody German, and the German didn’t like me at all.
(DC) Another incident he was – he, he escaped once or twice but he got a friend. He was on his own most of the time, but he’d got a friend at this point and they were in Poland –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And he joined up with the Polish Resistance.
(RC) That’s right.
(DC) And he, he lived at a farm with family and there was a young girl there. I can’t think of her name now – and he – and they were in love, and they were a couple at the time, and then the Germans – something happened. They’d done something and the Germans came round looking for the Polish Resistance, and this girl, they got her and he was shouting, ‘No, No, she’s on the farm, working’, ‘cause they made out they were out working on the farm. And they just shot her in front of him. Lynkska was her name, wasn’t it?
(RC) Yeah, Lynkska.
(DC) And they just shot her in front of him, and the lady from the farm she came out and slapped him round the face and said, ‘Come on, get on with this work. We’ve got so much to do’.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And he got, he got away from that, but then you were escaping again and this particular time it was up through Lithuania, Latvia was it?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And –
(RC) Lithuania, Latvia yeah.
(DC) And he – there was some people hanging. They were hanging them. I don’t know whether you know this story? With the Latvians, Lithuanians – have you followed it a bit? He, he saw all these people and they were just hanging from poles and trees in the street where the Germans had, had hung them ‘cause they wouldn’t go over to the German side. That was that and before he went into Latvia and Lithuania, you were in with Poland there was all the people on the streets just little kids starving and dying on the streets and all that.
(RC) It was awful. Awful.
(DC) And then the – around about the same time he was going along, escaping, and there was this cattle wagon train and – no, it wasn’t, it was a building this particular time – a building.
(RC) Yep.
(DC) And there were loads of people in it and they were shouting, ‘Mia water, mia water’ or something like that. I don’t know how they say it. ‘Mia sand’.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And they wanted water to drink and sand to put on the floor where they’d have to go to the toilet to cover all that up. And they were people that they were taking by train to the, the concentration camps. It was terrible. Then -
(RC) To the concentration camps.
(DC) Then you got so far up – I’m going, I’m getting mixed up with the different stories actually, but they are all stories. He was in Poland and with the Polish Resistance, they wanted to – they heard that [sigh] Hitler was coming along on the train, so he went underneath the bridge and set a explosive to blow his train up. And as it happened, the troop train came along first and they blew the troop train, train up and Hitler got away with it, otherwise you probably wouldn’t be here now if they had known it was you? [laugh].
(RC) No, I had, I had a bloody rough time, but the fact is that I could speak a good language and I –
(DC) Actually he could speak fluent German.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) That’ll do for now, won’t it?
[Restart of recording]
(RC) I had a - I didn’t have a very good war, but I did – I –
(DC) What made you go into the RAF? You wanted to fly was because you were in Coventry the night it was bombed, weren’t you?
(RC) That’s right,yes.
(DC) With a friend.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And straight away you said, ‘I’m not going in the Navy, I’m going in Bomber Command’.
(RC) Yes.
(DC) And you and your friend, you got a little baby out. You thought it was alive, but by the time you got it out it was dead, wasn’t it?
(RC) Yes.
(DC) And that really upset you, and from then on that’s what you said you would do, go in Bomber Command. All right?
(RC) I didn’t have – I mean wars are bad but I didn’t have a very good bloody war. I had a bastard of a war against – the Germans didn’t like me and I certainly didn’t like them and –
(DC) Another incident, you were escaping with your friend at this time, weren’t you? And the, they, the Gestapo were onto you with the dogs.
(RC) Yes.
(DC) So you went into the –
(RC) Bloody Gestapo.
(DC) the river. And you went into the river, didn’t you?
(RC) Yes, I did.
(DC) To hide. And you went in and then you went, kept under water, went up the bank so the dogs couldn’t scent - do your scent. And they never did find you, did they?
(RC) No.
(DC) They kept shooting in the water, but you were up the river more because you’d got up further and under the bank, and the dogs couldn’t scent you ‘cause -
(RC) That’s right
(DC) ‘cause you lost your scent in the water.
(RC) It was awful bloody water.
(DC) And then eventually you, you swam the Rhine, didn’t you?
(RC) Swam the Rhine, yeah.
(DC) With your friend –
(RC) Swam the Rhine, yeah.
(DC) And he said, this friend came from Poland, he said, ‘I can’t swim. I can’t swim –‘ so Roy said, ‘You can’t swim?’ And you come from Hull?’ So he had to have him on his chest, didn’t you?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And you swam on your back -
(RC) On me back.
(DC) To get him across.
(RC) On me back.
(DC) And he said, ‘Look, I can’t cope any more’. He said, ‘I can’t get you across’. He did so bad swimming, so hard swimming, and he said, ‘Oh, don’t leave me. Don’t leave me’. So he had another go, and they finally got across, and got the other side of the river and it was the wide part of the river.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) So, that was a good thing. The only thing is you saw him after the war, didn’t you?
(RC) Yes.
(DC) Then you lost touch. When we went to find him, he’d passed away, hadn’t he? Syd.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Yeah.
(RC) I had a –
(DC) It’s sad.
(RC) I didn’t have –
(DC) Another time there was a – this is towards the end of the - he, he, they escaped off of a forced march, and I don’t know whether it was the main one, I really don’t know, but they escaped off a forced march. And then they went into this farm to stay for the night, ‘cause they were so cold, and there was three Germans there and they got the two of you, didn’t they?
(RC) Hmm.
(DC) And they were tie – they were going to tie them against a cartwheels and bayonet them –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And so you, you let them get close to you, didn’t you? And when you shouted to Syd, he said, ‘Now!’ And Roy knocked his chap out and Pete – Syd knocked his person out and then you got the third one, didn’t you, and you bayoneted them all.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Syd had got dysentery so he had one of the pair of trousers off them.
(MJ) [Chuckles].
(RC) [Chuckles].
(DC) Then you carried on, didn’t you? And you were so cold and you didn’t know what to do, ‘cause Syd was almost dying, wasn’t he?
(RC) He was.
(DC) And –
(RC) Syd Caldwell.
(DC) So –
(RC) He was - he almost died. Sad.
(DC) You were some vehicles, didn’t you?
(RC) Yes.
(DC) And you stopped, you left Syd for a while to recover a bit, he couldn’t get anywhere, could he really? And you went off to see if you could see who it was and it was the 11th Army Division was there.
(RC) Yeah, 11th Army.
(DC) From Lincoln.
(RC) Yeah. The Lincoln -
(DC) And you went up and put your hands up and they – you know – a bit dubious of you, weren’t they? But once they realised you were an escaped prisoner –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) They made such a fuss. Got you warmed up, hot drink, got – they went and got Syd in –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And you travelled with them for so long, didn’t you?
(RC) Yes, I did.
(DC) And he was actually fighting with them as they were travelling. Roy, but they wouldn’t let Syd, would they ‘cause he wasn’t too well and you, he was shooting at them and then all of a sudden a bullet came straight past his ear and just missed ya, didn’t it? And it - oh it got the officer, didn’t it?
(RC) It did.
(DC) Yes.
(RC) It went whizzing by me.
(DC) [Unclear]
(RC) The bullet went right by my ear, which I –
(DC) And you sort of fell on him to make out it got you as well, didn’t ya?
(RC) Yeah, it killed the officer, [indistinct].
(DC) And he’s going round, going to the houses, ‘cause it was a village and there were trying to clear it out. And he went to this one vill – house and an old lady came and she was crying, and she said, ‘My husband is tort’, meaning dead –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And Roy went got her some corned beef and bread that they’d made –
(RC) Yes.
(DC) Off the army lads and she was so grateful, wasn’t she? So it wasn’t all wicked. Were you? [Chuckle]
(RC) [Unclear] My mother’s tort is died. Got killed.
(DC) Yeah.
(RC) [Unclear]
(DC) And then you got back to Belgium –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And you were flown home in a Lancaster, weren’t you? Yeah.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) From there. But so much else happened in between, didn’t it?
(RC) Everything –
(DC) It was –
(RC) Everything happens in war, doesn’t it.
(DC) He was, Syd was a little bit impatient, I think, at times.
(RC) Yes he was.
(DC) And you couldn’t be impatient. And he, you were going and he said, ‘No, come on. Let’s go’ They’d come in to all these soldiers and they were all resting. I think they, were they Hitler Youth?
(RC) Was they what?
(DC) Hitler Youth?
(RC) Hitler Youth. Yes, they were.
(DC) When they put the guns up –
(RC) Hitler Youth. That’s what they were.
(DC) They were all resting and in the middle, they’d stacked all the guns up, like this. And Roy went in and talked in Germany, telling them off saying they shouldn’t be messing about like that and all this, and he said, ‘What about these guns here?’ You weren’t sure how to use them, were you?
(RC) No.
(DC) So he got one of them to show him how to use it and he went round the lot and shot the lot.
(RC) Yeah, they showed me how to use the gun, which I could use the gun. And I said, ‘Well, stay still. Stay still’, and I shot the bloody –
(DC) And another incident, they were on a forced march and there was chickens about the yard, so this lad come up to you, didn’t he and you said, ‘There’s some eggs under there’. And you said, ‘No, don’t touch them. They’ll have you if you take those’.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And the lad went away and, they, him and Syd grabbed them both. Oh, didn’t ya? But you gave this lad one and you had all the rest with your mates.
(RC) Of course.
(DC) [Laugh].
(RC) What’d ya expect?
(DC) Another one was, they were still on the march and they grabbed a pig, him and Syd.
(RC) [Chuckle]
(DC) And you squealed like anything, and you hit it on the head and all sorts. Couldn’t kill it could you? A little pig. A baby pig.
(RC) Yeah. A little pig.
(DC) And it squealed and you shut it up in the finish anyway. And the farmer had told the Gestapo about this, and they’d got this pig all sorted out and under the potatoes. They’d got potatoes on top of it. And the Gestapo were going round smelling the pots to see if they could smell it, but they never did. Did they?
(RC) No.
(DC) [Laugh]
(RC) No, no I had, I had a awful war. No wars are good.
(DC) [Chuckle]
(RC) But I had a bloody hard war.
(DC) Another time you spoke, Syd was with you, wasn’t he, yes and you were, you went by this, I think it was a farmhouse, I can’t quite remember now, but these Germans were laying asleep very early morning, and one was a officer, and you put your foot on his chest, didn’t you? And he says : ‘Photo, photo’, to try and get a photo out to show you and it was a gun he got, hadn’t he, so you shot him.
(RC) Well I had to.
(DC) He would have been shot.
(RC) He made out he just taking – he said, ‘Photo’, making out to taking the photo and he took a gun out. I mean I gotta shoot him. I mean it’s war, it’s war. War is war and you couldn’t have a photograph to shoot a bloke with you had a proper gun and I shot him which I had to do, but it was, it was just one of those things, and it was war, wasn’t it?
(DC) Hmm.
(RC) My last [indistinct] bloody shot down.
(DC) But that didn’t grieve you so much, did it? It was the 50 pound you’d left at the pub at Ludford Magna for your celebration. [Chuckle] He’s never got over that, have you?
(RC) I haven’t.
(DC) [Chuckle]
(RC) I had 50 pound when I was escaping –
(DC) Well it was all the crew put towards it, didn’t they?
(RC) And left it at the pub. And 50, and that was a lot of money then. It bloody is now. We lost it didn’t we?
(DC) Eh, hmm.
(RC) We had problems.
(MJ) How’d you lose that then?
(RC) Some thieving blighter.
(DC) Sshh.
[Both chuckle]
(DC) You got shot down, so you lost it.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Yeah
(RC) The Germans were using real bullets and they shot us down. Rotten sods.
[All laugh]
(DC) Arh dear.
(RC) It was – for me, the war was a bit – wars are not good very good, are they?
(MJ) No, they’re not very good.
(DC) We –
(RC) Eh?
(DC) He suffered terribly with Post, Post Traumatic Stress and after the war he worked on the railways as an accounts clerk, and he would sit at the desk and he’d face the wall – bare, a sort of a wall and all of a sudden a Lancaster came through, straight at him, through this wall. And he went to the doctors and the doctor said, ‘Oh, take a couple of aspirin’. Well, you know, he said just had to put up with it from then on and –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Then you had problems, didn’t you? He fell out of bed while trying to bail out of a plane a couple of times, didn’t you? And you were always restless, so the doctor sent you to see Mr Horner, the psychiatrist and he went through everything with him and he said, ‘You know, you shouldn’t be going through this’. He said, ‘You know, what about compensation.’ And, he got, Miss Drawner got him compensation for his stress. Well, well it’s a war, war thing -
(RC) War –
(DC) Monthly you get it. And through Mr Horner, he went into it seriously, ‘cause I - when we were first together he – when we first met - we were going – we – there was nothing to do when we were young, was there? So we sat in this pub and we went in there from work at six, half-past five and we sat in there all night, just the two of us. I had a drink, he had a drink. We never drank our drank, drink at all. We sat there all night, he just opened up and told me everything – more of less everything about the war. And he was saying how he suffered from this stress. Well throughout, you know, we got five children and I was saying, you know, to Miss Drawner, and I said, ‘The thing is –‘ I said : ‘There’s no way that a person can go through what he went through and not suffer stress’. And Mr Horner was writing it, all this down, and it’s since that incident that all this Post Traumatic Stress has come out through Mr Horner bringing it to light, isn’t it?
(RC) Hmm.
(DC) That’s how it’s all come about. Post-Traumatic Stress -
(RC) Yes
(DC) ‘Cause you never heard of it before, did you?
(RC) Never heard of it, no.
(DC) You know and he did a good job. And that was in the, about the mid-80s I think. Mid 80s it would have been.
(RC) Hmm
(DC) Yeah
(RC) What was that Post Traum- [indistinct] –
(DC) When you couldn’t sleep and used to shout out at night, ‘The Germans are coming’. And –
(RC) Oh yeah.
(DC) And things like that and you bailed out of bed to get out of your plane and that sort of thing.
(RC) Post Traumatic –
(DC) You used to do it often.
(RC) Hmm.
(DC) That was a bad time, wasn’t it?
(DC) Hmm.
(RC) Dreaming about the Germans and jumping out of bed, making out – thinking I was shot down when I was in bed. And I was thinking I was shot down and I bail out of bed, and I had a horrible life through that flying. Still here I is.
(DC) [Chuckle]
(RC) And there is – oh – and we love each other, don’t we?
(DC) Course we do.
(RC) And we got a good friend here.
[Indistinct]
(DC) There were coming round ready to land at Ludford Magna, and all of a sudden, they had a German that had followed them back and was shooting. You’d managed to get your wheels didn’t it, and you swivelled round on the on the runway and as they was shooting at the plane. They - a bullet went into the wall of, is it the White Hart opposite?
(RC) Oh yes.
(DC) Opposite it, isn’t it? And they, they recently patched it up in the last few years. But the hole was in the wall the wall for ages. And then the, was it - were they WAAFs that shot it down? WAAFs? They shot the plane down at the –
(RC) The WAAFs. The WAAFs did.
(DC) Yeah and they shot it down, and they were buried in Ludford Cemetery, but I think it’s been – they’ve been moved because we looked, didn’t we? A few years ago and there was nothing there, was there? So, that was another thing. You got away light there, didn’t you?
(RC) I always got – I always got away bloody light.
(DC) [Chuckle]
(RC) The Germans didn’t like me. I didn’t like them and whatever I did, I always got away lightly.
(DC) What when – when you were escaping that time and they said you were the person they were looking for.
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) Yeah, you could speak your German, couldn’t ya? What did- what did they say to ya?
(RC) They said [chuckle], he said [indistinct], what’d he say to me?
(DC) ‘You dis Englander?’
(RC) [Indistinct] ‘Englander’ I said, ‘Englander? Nien. Ich bein Deutsche. Ich bein Deutsche’. I had to make out I was bloody German.
(DC) You said you were an officer, didn’t you?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) But you’d been wounded.
(RC) Yeah. And I had a bloody hard life. Yeah. I had to speak English and German at the same bloody time –
(DC) And previously you’d had a crash in a Wellington bomber in training and you had a - not through the crash, you’d had also been shot up and you’d had a piece of shrapnel go in your leg –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) and left a bad scar. So you showed them that where you’d been injured, didn’t you?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) And they believed you then, didn’t they?
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) They you were a off – a German officer had been injured.
(RC) I had a - I had a very, very hard war. And I had, had to make out I was a bloody German officer when I was killing as many Germans as I could. ‘Ich bien Officer. Yah. Deutschlander’. And then they [chuckle] I had to make so much – bloody hard –making out I was a German officer. It was a hard world, wasn’t it Chook?
(DC) It was. Yes.
(RC) Yeah, but here I is. Here is oh [indistinct] [chuckle].
(MJ) How did you learn German?
(RC) Eh?
(MJ) How did you learn German?
(RC) I learnt German –I learnt German quite easy because when I knew what I was going to go through, I practiced German and I learnt German quite easy. I could speak it quite well, could I?
(DC) You could talk it perfect.
(RC) Eh?
(DC) When we went on holiday in Morocco, a good few years ago, and he was talking to this Moroccan in German, and the Moroccan said to him, ‘You can talk good German but rubbish English’. [Laughter]
(RC) Yeah, yeah. He said, he said, ‘Ich bien Englander’. And they said, ‘Englander?’ I said, ‘Englander. Deutschlander’. So he said, ‘Oh yeah, Deutschlander. Deutschlander is you. Englander is not you. You speak Duetschlander because that’s your life. Englander, you don’t speak it very well’. [Laughter] I – he had a bloody job to – he says –
(DC) Funny.
(RC) He was a German and I could speak fluent German, and I I can always speak [indistinct] fluent English, but he said, ‘Do not, you do not speak English. Nein’. He said, ‘You be Englander. Nien. You be Deutschlander’. And I had to be English, German and I had to be every bugger. I had a bloody hard life, but I enjoyed it. I got over the war. Just about.
(DC) [Chuckle]
(RC) I got about – I got about mark here. Have I got a face - mark on my face?
(DC) No, people don’t notice it now darling.
(RC) No, they don’t. I do they -
(DC) He had all his face smashed up in the – what the – can’t think of the plane now. When you had your plane crash in this country –
(RC) Yeah.
(DC) and your face was smashed, wasn’t it?
(RC) We had a plane crash and my face got all smashed up. And I couldn’t –
(DC) In the Wellington.
(RC) In the Wellington, that’s right. And I could only see out one eye. One bloody eye, but I got over it, didn’t I?
(DC) Hmm.
(RC) I had a very, very hard war but nobody has an easy war, do they?
(DC) No.
(RC) But I did have a hard war ‘cause the Germans didn’t like me. I didn’t like them. And [indistinct] had a hard war, but I’m still alive. And I still got a nice wife, haven’t I?
(DC) I don’t know, am I? Only you can decide that. [chuckle].
(RC) I had a hard war, but no war really is easy.
(DC) No, there shouldn’t be such things as wars. It’s a terrible thing.
(RC) No. They shouldn’t –
(DC) You just make you wonder why there has to be wars. The way people think it’s – it’s just you know. Just impossible really. Everybody’s at war at the moment, aren’t they?
(RC) Picture. You want a picture, don’t ya?
(DC) [Unclear]
(MJ) Yeah.
(DC) I was only 5 when the war started, and I always remember my father standing at the front door watching what was going on, and we used to sometimes, we used to go down in the cellar for protection or under the strong kitchen table or in the air raid shelter. We lived in the country on the Tamworth Road, just outside Sutton Coldfield, and we didn’t see a lot of the war at all really. When the, when the aeroplanes used to go over, my mother never did know, but I was absolutely petrified of the planes, and I’d either run in the house or into the farm buildings. It wasn’t until later I, I remembered things going on and my father said to my mother, ‘Mother, these Coventry’s getting it tonight’. And he said, ‘They’re really getting it badly’, and then a bit later we had a big bomb drop, we had a big garden so it was way away a bit, but we had a big bomb drop at the top of our garden in the field and they came to get it out. They tried pumping it out with water, and all sorts and to my knowledge, that bomb is still there. They couldn’t get it out. Then, the next thing I remember going in to Birmingham and seeing all the houses bombed and all up Aston and all through Birmingham, and all bombed out. It was a terrible sight.
(MJ) On behalf of the International Bomber Command, I would like to thank Warrant Office Royston Clarke and Mrs Diane Clarke for their recording at their home near Lincolnshire on the date of the 31st March 2016 at 4 o clock.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Royston Clarke and Diane Clarke
Creator
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Mick Jeffery
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-03-31
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Sound
Identifier
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AClarkRR160331, PClarkRR1601, PClarkRR1602
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Format
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00:33:37 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Warrant Officer Robert Royston Clarke joined the Royal Air Force in 1940 and flew in Lancasters.
He joined Bomber Command after seeing the bombing of Coventry.
Robert tells about bailing out and being manhandled by the local inhabitants before escaping and hiding under a train.
He was arrested by the Vichy French and tells of how he was then interviewed by a German Officer.
He escaped on a couple of occasions, linking up with the Polish Resistance on one occasion and hiding from the Gestapo who were searching for him with dogs. He tells of his experiences ‘on the run’.
He then found himself with the 11th Army Division and was flown home from Belguim after the war.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
animal
bale out
bombing
childhood in wartime
crash
escaping
evading
Lancaster
lynching
Resistance
shelter
shot down
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/497/8386/BCopusPJCopusPJv10009.2.jpg
a36f63034734e4e0f29c51ba59c98074
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/497/8386/ACopusJ150928.1.mp3
51fd30062c962d0e425f7b640183c74e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Copus, Jim
P J Copus
Copus, James
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Copus, PJ
Description
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Nine items. Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Percy James Copus (1922 - 2016, 1430308 Royal Air Force) who flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 97 Squadron. The collection also includes photographs of himself and family, and account and maps of his last operation of the 27 March 1943 on Frankfurt, when his Lancaster was shot down and he became a prisoner of war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by James Copus and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
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2016-02-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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NM: By saying this is Nigel Moore. I’m with Mr James Copus.
JC: Yes.
NM: I’m at his house in Boxmoor in Hemel Hempstead xxxx. It’s Monday the 28th of September.
JC: Yes.
NM: And it’s 2 o’clock in the afternoon.
JC: Yes.
NM: So can I just start by asking?
JC: Carry on.
NM: By asking you -
JC: Carry on. Get my breath back.
NM: Yes. Ok. Can you tell me something?
JC: I haven’t had lunch long and I’ve been sitting, just sat down.
NM: Right. Ok.
JC: And I got up with a bit of a rush I suppose.
NM: Take it easy and take your time.
JC: Fine.
NM: Take your time.
JC: You can see up there.
NM: What was, what was your life like before you joined the RAF? About your upbringing and childhood. Where did you grow up?
JC: Where did I grow up?
NM: Yeah.
JC: Well I was born in Watlington which is Oxfordshire. I don’t know if you know it.
NM: Yeah. I do.
JC: Watlington. Yes. And I joined the RAF in nineteen -
NM: What was, what were you doing before you joined the RAF?
JC: I was working in Stokenchurch at a chair factory ‘cause really there wasn’t a great deal of work about so you had to go where you could work and I lived at Stoke, I worked at Stokenchurch. That was seven mile away. Aston on a Hill, quite a hill. Anyway, it were interesting and I enjoyed myself. I always like what I do and I do what I like. I think that’s a good story anyway, don’t you? Anything else you would like to know?
NM: So, so, how did you, how did you come to join the RAF and when did you join the RAF?
JC: Well that’s a good question. I didn’t, I didn’t say, I didn’t tell anybody. I didn’t tell my parents. I just went up to, up to Reading one Saturday morning and I came home and said I had joined the RAF. Well, I thought that was the best way to do it because I didn’t want to upset anybody and as I say my, I had a brother and a sister but they’re all dead now unfortunately, parents as well. And I went up to Reading and just went up there and I came home and said I was joined the RAF and they didn’t, well they were taken aback a little bit but I think they appreciated the fact that I volunteered so that made me happy as well. Yeah. Alright?
NM: So tell me something then about your training. How did you -
JC: Pardon?
NM: About your training.
JC: Training.
NM: Once you -
JC: For the RAF?
NM: Yes. Once you joined, what happened to you when you joined up?
JC: Well the first thing, first thing I’d do as soon as I got my call up I went up to Blackpool to go and do the square bashing. That’s what they called it in those days. I don’t know what they call it today but it was all marching up and down through Blackpool. Quite a nice place to go actually in, it was the, I’m just trying to think, it wasn’t summer and it wasn’t winter. It was somewhere in between anyway. I know that because it was mostly dry which was good and so I enjoyed it. It was very good. We were all stationed in separate billets. We weren’t in a block of flats that were, we were sent out to people, residents, you know so you got, you might be in one bedroom, house and two doors down the road was another one, another recruit. It was good. I enjoyed it as I say. Things changed to what it is today. Anything else?
NM: So, and what sort of, what form did the training take?
JC: First, most of it was square bashing, learning how to as you’d appreciate as good twenty four of us at a time maybe even more square bashing and we did that for two or three solid weeks and then then we moved on from there and it wasn’t until, oh I forget how long it was afterwards that I volunteered for aircrew. Well, I went up to Reading actually and I went and didn’t tell anybody, I just went up to Reading and I said, ‘Can I join the air force?’ and I went from there so.
NM: So, so in Blackpool you volunteered for, for air crew.
JC: Yeah.
NM: And you became a mid-upper gunner.
JC: I mean I did end up as a mid-upper gunner, yes.
NM: Did you volunteer for that or was -
JC: Oh yeah. I volunteered for it. Yeah. Yeah. Well I wanted to, once I got there I wanted to do something and I thought the only thing I could do is to, I don’t mind being an air gunner. It makes no difference. I can’t fly the plane so I’d got to do something else and -
NM: So, what was the training like for a gunner?
JC: It was very good and the training was very good. I went over to the Isle of Man and places like that doing different training, doing, and that so we did, we did most of the training from the Isle of Man in, well aircraft in those days were a little bit different to what they are today and enjoyable. I enjoyed what I did. The most important.
NM: And from your air gunning training –
JC: Hmmn?
NM: From your training -
JC: I was training as an air gunner. Yeah.
NM: Yes.
JC: Yeah.
NM: How did you then move on towards operations?
JC: Well I don’t know how that we did move around from there. It was, I was flying you know just going from the Isle of Wight, no the Isle of Man, we were flying from the Isle of Man. Going out there, flying around and training and then from there I went up to Cambridge and from there went on to more training and more flying and we did a lot of night flying getting used to flying at night. Used to go for sometimes we were out for eight hours flying. It was a long time up there. No, but as I say I enjoyed it. It was something I wanted to do and the war was on. I enjoyed it.
NM: So when did you meet the rest of your crew?
JC: Now, I didn’t meet the crew until oh I suppose the Isle of Man and I met up with most of them. Didn’t meet them all at once. I met them all separately. They were different training you see. There was the pilot and the navigator, they were all training and different and then we all got together and then we used to go out on training flights. Everybody. Each crew went out individually as a lot with the crew and we went on night flying, mostly night flying in those days. Yeah. It was alright. It was a long time ago. I can’t remember everything.
NM: You were straight on Lancasters were you?
JC: Not on Lancasters at the time, no. No. No. No. We were, no they weren’t Lancasters. They weren’t Lancasters until we got into the squadron?
NM: Ok.
JC: No.
NM: So, so your training flying was done on other aircraft, yes?
JC: Other aircraft yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
NM: As a complete crew.
JC: There was, no when you say a complete crew. There was a pilot and then yourself in the turret. Maybe three of you in there, in it but certainly it wasn’t seven. So, no as I say it was all interesting and I was, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed what I did.
NM: So when you met up with the full crew, when you -
JC: Yes. Once we met the crew you all trained together and once we trained together went on operations.
NM: Tell me something about the crew members.
JC: Crew members.
NM: Yeah.
JC: It’s trying to remember everybody now. It was such a long ago, as you know. Let me think. Cooper. Cooper was the pilot. I remember him. Yeah. Mac. Always called him Mac anyway. He was the navigator and the rear gunner was, the rear gunner was called Slick [laughs]. We had nicknames for everybody and I was the mid upper. I remember lots of things but as I say again it’s such a long ago now, as you appreciate. I’ve enjoyed myself but I’ve always try and do that. Even now. Yeah.
NM: And you were posted down to, you were posted to 97 squadron.
JC: Yeah we got eventually down to 97 squadron. Yeah. Yeah.
NM: Tell me about life on 97 squadron.
JC: Well 97 squadron, we were the Cambridge, just up, up not very far away from here to that extent. Cambridge. And it was a fully operational station and we had problems. Wherever you went you had problems ‘cause I remember going out one night we were all , all ready to go, all on a plane and it was, I mean there was no lighting to that extent and we were going down the perimeter track. The next thing you know we were up one side. It had gone down a trench, in the trench. We got stuck so we couldn’t go out that night. That was funny. The things were happening. You never realised what can go on but flying was alright. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed flying. Have you flown? Have you ever flown?
NM: I have yes but -
JC: Pardon?
NM: Yes, I have.
JC: Oh good.
NM: But -
JC: Yes. It’s something you can take to or you can’t isn’t it?
NM: What was, what was life like on the squadron when you weren’t flying?
JC: Well it was good. Good. We never had to worry because depending on the weather you got up in the morning you went on parade, well on parade, you went into the hut, you went in to the hut and you met everybody else in there and they just came in and said, ‘Right. No flying today,’ and that was the end of it. We’d go our own way. But then if there was flying then we’d go and get the crew together and we’d go out and dress up and go out. Yeah. It was, well in those days, I don’t know what it’s like today but in those days it was, it was one for all and all for one if you know what I mean. [laughs] No, I enjoyed it.
NM: So when you weren’t flying what did you get up to?
JC: Er what did I get up to? Mostly I’d go into London. I’d get out of the camp and go on the A1 and, and come down and pick up my girl, meet my girlfriend. So we all had things like that happening. As long as you got back in time the next morning it didn’t matter ‘cause you went on, you’d go on parade in the morning and they’d say, well depending on the weather of course and they’d say, ‘Well there’s nothing happening today. See you tomorrow morning.’ If not we’d go out with the crew and go out on a cross country. Take a, we’d do a cross country flying. Sometimes we’d go on dog legs well anywhere from Cambridge. Dog legging here all the way to Scotland and back. Boring but [laughs]. Other than that it was alright. I enjoyed it.
NM: And you were in the turret the whole time.
JC: Hmmn?
NM: You were in the turret the whole time.
JC: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Once you were up there you can’t, you don’t move around. No. Nobody, nobody moved once you got in the aircraft. You were there and that was it till you landed. Oh it was interesting.
NM: Tell me about your operations.
JC: Operations. We didn’t do many. Only went on, I think I got shot down on the sixth, it was the sixth operation. Sixth one. And I remember that quite clearly because we were flying across France. We’d gone across there, we’d crossed over into France ‘cause we were down to, up rather about eighteen thousand feet I suppose by the time we got there and it was like daylight. It really was. You could see everything, you could see all around you and I was amazed at what we could see up there at that time of night and I didn’t see the fighter because he’d come up behind us. He came up underneath and I was lucky because I was in the mid upper, I was a mid upper gunner just slightly to one side of the aircraft and the aircraft, the fighter came up underneath and behind but he never hit me at all. I was sitting in the turret and the bullet, obviously he hit other crew and that was it. I got out of there. They didn’t, they never said anything but I got out the turret, went back to the rear door, put my parachute on and that was the end of that because I couldn’t get out of the door. I had to get, couldn’t open the door so I had to go back through the aircraft and go down the nose. That was the worrying because as I say it’s, if you’ve been in an aircraft and your stuck in the tail of the air craft and you’ve got to walk back through the fuselage and find the hole to go through and I went through it and that was it and I suppose I came down and got somebody’s back garden, landed there and they all came out to look and took me inside the house, sat me inside the kitchen in the house and everybody in the village came around to have a look but I wasn’t bothered. It didn’t affect me. I mean I was never attacked in any shape or form so I can’t go into that. There was nothing. Nothing happened and then I suppose after a couple of hours the local police arrived and they took me to a police station and that was it. Well, apart from staying all those fifteen months. Yeah. Anything else?
NM: Well, yes.
JC: Go on then. I don’t know what you’re wanting to ask.
NM: Did you, did you manage see any of the crew again after you bailed out?
JC: I’m just trying to think about that. Have I seen the crew? I think I have, periodically, yeah because that was such a long time ago isn’t it when I think about it. So no I don’t think I saw many after that, once the war broke out because they all went in different directions. I did meet the skipper once. Yes.
NM: So they all survived did they?
JC: Hmmn?
NM: They all survived the shooting down.
JC: Oh yeah. Yeah. Did we? No. No. No. No. No we got shot down. The rear gunner was killed. He was, he was the only one I think that was, that was lost on the flight. He was in the tail and I looked out and I couldn’t find anybody. How long, I had to go back, back up the fuselage. I had to get back out of my turret, get my parachute on, I tried the back door, couldn’t get out of the back door so I had to up to the front again and there was nobody there. I just went through the hatch. Yeah. That was, that was yeah that was maybe a bit worrying and scary.
NM: When there was nobody there. Yeah
JC: Yeah.
NM: Yeah.
JC: [?] but there again I’m alive and that’s the most important.
NM: So you were taken to a police station.
JC: Oh yes. Yes.
NM: Tell me about your, the next fifteen months then as a prisoner of war.
JC: Well yes we went from various places to, from one place to another on a railway trip from one part of a town to another you know and once they got that we went into we were confined to places where we had to be, didn’t have to talk to anybody so, no, I mean a bit scary but got over it. No. No.
NM: So you were in a prisoner of war camp.
JC: Yes Stalag Luft 1. I don’t know if you know the Stalags. Up in the Baltic. Overlooking the sea there. The Russians were on the other side, the other side of the water. So -
NM: So describe life in Stalag Luft 1 for me.
JC: Pardon?
NM: What was life like as a prisoner of war in Stalag Luft 1?
JC: Well it’s what you made it really. Either, you either got on with it or you moped around and did nothing. No, I went out and I used to play football when I could and things like that and walk around the camp, but you had to do something. You just couldn’t just sit around. I mean some people, some of them did but I couldn’t do that. I used to walk around if I could, go from one compound to another. There’s not much you could do because they had, well I don’t know who they were, they were foreigners at the camp and they did all the dirty work so we were fortunate in that respect. Yeah.
NM: So how many of you were in your -
JC: Pardon?
NM: How many of you were there in -
JC: In the camp?
NM: In the camp, yes.
JC: Oh now that’s a good question.
NM: How many in your hut?
JC: Oh in a hut. Twelve. About twelve to a hut and there were, must have been, let me think one, two, three, four, five, about six, six, seven huts. Yeah. Maybe more.
NM: All RAF? Were they?
JC: Yeah all RAF, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
NM: So did you make many friends in the camp?
JC: Well, I must have done, must have done but I never kept up with anybody special really. Not once I left and moved around from one place to another. You make friends obviously but then you go on and make further friends. Like anything else.
NM: Were there any other incidents of note? Did people try and escape or were there -
JC: Well it wasn’t a very good place to try and escape because on one side of it was all you were out at the sea so there was no way you could go from there unless you had, well as I say we were out on the Baltic so, no. There was no there was no way. Some people tried to escape and they got out, they got out of the camp but they were never out for long so there you go. There again there were other things you could do. I went, there was three, three prisoners there used to go into the village, local, well, the [?] village doing repairs to various things that wanted repaired and I asked them if it was possible to go with them one day and I went down. I had to go and find somebody with a hat, different clothes that I could go and find and be different to the others and I went down to this family. They introduced me to this family and when I was there the daughter arrived and she was crying her eyes out and I thought, ‘Oh God, what have I done now?’ It wasn’t nothing to do with me apparently. She was, she’d just been ordered to the Russian front. That was the reason. So it was a bit scary you know. I didn’t like to see that but I had to put up with it. No.
NM: So you had a chance now and again to go out of the camp but -
JC: Well yeah if you could, you could go out if there was two or three used to go bookbinding and sometimes you know you’d say to them, ‘Is it, is it possible to come with you?’ and they’d go and find out. I didn’t go out, I think it was two or three times about, that was all I went and otherwise you just sat around doing nothing and I didn’t like that. Doing bookbinding. But they had to do it because they kept the books up to date for the camp you know. Ok.
NM: Were you in communication at all with your parents?
JC: Pardon?
NM: Were you in communication at all with your parents? Were you able to write to your parents?
JC: Well, yes, you were allowed. Yeah but not, I think it was once a month I think you could do it. You could write a letter once a month and then it had to be censored so other than that prisoners of war like everything else you’re confined to barracks, wire and that’s it. No. I, we used to have fields, you know quite decent fields to play around in. We had, you could play football and things like that. And no we didn’t, there was always something going on. We had an officer, a German officer he he was at the old type of German and he used to come up, walk through the compounds and one day he came in and he found a couple of Americans there fencing. Well not with, not with swords or anything like that so he stopped and watched it, watched them for a while and then he said, he just took his belt off and showed them how it should be done. That was interesting. Yeah. But nothing else happened. No. We had a lot of foreigners there, foreign men doing the, all the dirty work. We didn’t have to do any work at all. Couldn’t grumble.
NM: So you weren’t -
JC: No.
NM: You weren’t treated roughly at all by the Germans. Or -
JC: No. No, not really. We were never, never hassled by them at all whatsoever. No.
NM: Even when you were shot down did they question you, interrogate you?
JC: Oh well yes yes we got interrogated, got isolated for that but we wouldn’t tell them anything anyway. Not what they wanted. [?] said, ‘No I don’t know anything about that.’ Whatever. And no, as long as you as long as you told them some story or whatever it didn’t matter. It didn’t, didn’t have to be the truth and they couldn’t find out anyway. So, no, that’s going back a long time now isn’t it?
NM: So they wanted to know what squadron you were with did they? And -
JC: Pardon?
NM: They wanted to know which squadron you were with. What sort of questions -
JC: 97 squadron.
NM: Yeah. Which squadron, I mean what sort of questions did they ask you when you were shot down?
JC: What, what on the -
NM: The night you were shot down and you went to, you were interrogated -
JC: Oh.
NM: What did they want to know from you that you wouldn’t tell them?
JC: Well they wanted to know the names of the crew. I wasn’t saying, I said, ‘I don’t know them,’ I said, ‘I only joined them, I only went with them tonight.’ So, I wouldn’t tell them anything. I couldn’t do, well I could but I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t say anything. I said, ‘I’m sorry but I’ve only, this is my first night with that crew,’ so I couldn’t tell them any information and they accepted it in the end so, good.
NM: So you were in a prisoner of war camp for quite a long time.
JC: Fifteen months.
NM: And how did that come to an end? How were you liberated?
JC: We were liberated by the Russians.
NM: Tell, tell me about that. How did that happen?
JC: Well they came, we were out, you could see the front of the camp and across the water and the next thing we know the Russians came in and liberated. We got confined to camp though for a while. They didn’t want us to mix for some reason or other but eventually we all got out together, marched out the camp and we had to march quite a way too. To the nearest aerodrome to get picked up. Flew us home. Flew down to the south coast. Yeah.
NM: So you were flown home.
JC: Yeah.
NM: In -
JC: We were all flown home.
NM: In what? Lancasters or Dakotas or -
JC: Well, they were in all sorts of aircraft they were. Whatever aircraft was available. That was what it was all about. No. I mean, no we never came back in a Lancaster. I’m sure I didn’t because there’s not a lot of room in a Lancaster. I don’t know if you knew that. No. Not a lot of room. So -
NM: So what was the feeling like when you knew you were coming home again?
JC: Wondering I suppose, we were curious what it was like at home. What we’d missed or we hadn’t missed and how people were going to react and things like that but on the whole it turned out ok. Yeah. I’ve no complaints.
NM: So had the war finished by then or was the, had the war actually finished by the time you were flown home?
JC: Had the?
NM: Had the war actually finished by the time you flew home.
JC: Well yeah you couldn’t fly anymore. That was the start. Once you were home. I was in the air force not long. I didn’t stay there long after that once I got home but we got moved around a bit and so I thought I’ll leave. So I got out. Came out the RAF. I didn’t stay. No. People, well some stayed on but no I’d got out, got out of the system I suppose. Didn’t go -
NM: So what have you done since you were demobbed from the RAF?
JC: What have I done? Well I’ve done sorts, many sorts of things really I suppose. I’m just trying to think what I did. I finished up as a driving instructor. That was because it gave me more freedom. I had my own driving school and so I enjoyed that.
NM: Do you keep in touch with anybody from the RAF? Did you keep, did you go to reunions? The squadron -
JC: Did I?
NM: Do you ever go to squadron reunions?
JC: No. No. I were never keen on things like that.
NM: Oh right.
JC: No. Well I haven’t been to any of them and as I say I don’t go now and I don’t suppose there’s any now.
NM: You were contacted last year to go up to Coningsby though were you?
JC: Yes I’m going up there. I’ve got the book there. You saw that.
NM: Yeah. How did you get that invite?
JC: Pardon?
NM: How did you get that invite? Did someone write to you to invite you to -
JC: Well yes you get you always get these things happening and you just go. There’s lots of places you, these things happening. I’ve got the book as I say. I’ve got it booked to go. That’s not long and far away anyway.
NM: So when you look back on your time -
JC: Hmmn?
NM: When you look back on your time with Bomber Command what do you, what do you think about, how do you feel about your time in Bomber Command when you look back?
JC: Well all, I mean what I do I look on it as something I did and I wanted to do and it was a hell of an experience. That’s all. It’s not everybody can go out and say I’ve been, done this, I’ve done that so I’m quite pleased with what I’ve done and I’ve got not no regrets at all in my life at all in that respect. I’ve done what I wanted to do. Plus extra. But no I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve enjoyed my [lived through?] that.
NM: How do you think –
JC: Anything you want to ask me?
NM: How do you think bomber command had been treated by history?
JC: Eh?
NM: How do you think Bomber Command had been treated in terms of recognised for its contribution during the war?
JC: Well I don’t know whether Bomber Command has ever recognised it. Not that I do really I mean I’ve got things like that but they never come, never come directly so I don’t think they ever kept up. Not really. You surprise me in a sense they didn’t.
NM: Ok.
JC: Not everybody would ever go through that again, I hope anyway but you can’t, you can’t help it, you can’t miss anything out. You’ve got to relive now and again and hope and as I say I got through it and I’m lucky and I’m happy about it so that’s all I can say.
[Machine pause]
Next thing I know the rest of the crew disappeared. I looked up and there was nobody there so I went back to, I went back to the rear door to open the rear door. Couldn’t open it so had to walk back through the fuselage and drop down to the nose. That was a little bit scary.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Jim Copus. One
Creator
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Nigel Moore
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-28
Format
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00:37:59 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACopusJ150928
Conforms To
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Pending review
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Language
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eng
Description
An account of the resource
James Copus grew up in Oxfordshire. He volunteered for aircrew and after training, became a mid-upper gunner and flew operations with 97 Squadron. He remembers a crash while taxiing to take-off, baling out of his empty Lancaster and how he kept himself occupied while a prisoner of war at Stalag Luft 1.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany--Barth
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
bombing
crash
Lancaster
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
RAF Bourn
shot down
Stalag Luft 1
take-off crash
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/497/8387/BCopusPJCopusPJv10009.2.jpg
a36f63034734e4e0f29c51ba59c98074
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/497/8387/ACopusJ160224.2.mp3
4dd66318692be3905e8d8468af131774
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Copus, Jim
P J Copus
Copus, James
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Copus, PJ
Description
An account of the resource
Nine items. Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Percy James Copus (1922 - 2016, 1430308 Royal Air Force) who flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 97 Squadron. The collection also includes photographs of himself and family, and account and maps of his last operation of the 27 March 1943 on Frankfurt, when his Lancaster was shot down and he became a prisoner of war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by James Copus and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
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2016-02-24
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and we’re in Hemel Hempstead with Jim Copus and with his daughter Andrea and son in law John and we’re going to talk about, the date today is the 24th of February 2016 and we are going to talk about Jim’s career and how he was shot down and what he did in prisoner of war camp and so Jim what’s the earliest recollection you have from a family point of view?
JC: From the family. Well I always remember being at school and I went to, as you got a little older you had to -
JH: Andrea can we stop it because I think -
AH: Oh.
CB: I think we’re just stopping a mo because -
AH: Yeah.
CB: Because the washing machine is probably going to drown this as a background?
AH: And then it goes on to spin.
CB: Well that’s a point as well isn’t it?
AH: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
CB: Your clothes -
AH: Yeah.
CB: Will be very well washed Jim.
JH: [?] Three times now.
CB: Well, yes, exactly. Yes.
AH: Oh I know how to do it now.
JC: I always remember school because as you got a little older you, we used to send out two, two boys out of school just before closing time or lunch time to make sure that the children got across the road because it was a main road outside the school and I always remember that. That was a long time ago too. Yeah.
CB: So what did your parents do?
JC: My parents? My parents, my father was a wood, wood machinist in Princes Risborough.
CB: And when did you leave school?
JC: When did I leave school? When I was fourteen.
CB: And what did you do?
JC: I went into a shop. We worked, went as an errand boy at a shop in Watlington for a year. Then I moved up to Stokenchurch where I got a full time job in a carpentry place.
CB: Was that doing an apprenticeship?
JC: No that wasn’t an apprenticeship. No. No.
CB: And then what?
JC: Well, after that the war broke out and I joined the RAF. [laughs]
CB: Why did you choose the RAF?
JC: [Laughs] That’s a very good question. I wouldn’t like to say why. Well, I didn’t fancy the army put it that way. I didn’t like the idea of having to go on road marches and God knows what and I thought well I’d join the RAF to see what goes on and I enjoyed it. I must admit. I enjoyed what I did. And er no.
CB: So you were a volunteer for air crew. How did that occur?
JC: I volunteered for that. They were asking for air crew and I put my name down and I was accepted. There were four of us went together. All went down in to London and three of them were rejected. I was the only one who got through.
CB: So that was at Lords Cricket Ground was it?
JC: Yes. That’s right. Lords. I always remember that. Lords Cricket Ground.
CB: And when you were there what did you do?
JC: We stayed there for, stayed at Lords Cricket Ground for just over a week and then we went back to our stations until we got called back again.
CB: So where did you, where did you go from Lords then?
JC: From Lords I think I went up to er just outside Cambridge if I remember rightly. Yeah. I can’t exactly say the name of the place but it was near Cambridge if it wasn’t in Cambridge. I was there and -
CB: What did you do there?
JC: I volunteered for aircrew and there again I got accepted. I went into London and got interviewed and everything else and got interviewed to go, go and join the aircrew and I did that and that’s more or less what is all that’s on here.
CB: What were, what were the options that they gave you for aircrew?
JC: They didn’t give me any options. They just asked you, ‘Do you want to join the aircrew,’ I said, ‘Yeah. It didn’t make any difference to me. Aircrew was aircrew and I thought, at the time anyway.
CB: Yeah.
JC: And I just said well fair enough. I wanted to go in the air force, join the air crew.
CB: Which year was this?
JC: Pardon?
CB: Which year was this? 1940?
JC: Nineteen yeah 1940, ‘40 yeah, ’40, ‘41 that’s right because I went in I actually got called up in the beginning of 1942.
AH: You signed -
JC: Pardon?
AH: You signed up early didn’t you? You went down yourself to sign up. I remember you telling me because you didn’t want to be told where to go.
JC: Well. Yeah. You remember maybe more than me.
AH: Yes.
CB: That’s ok. So what I understand we’re talking about is that you, like a number of people wanted to get in on the act.
JC: Yeah well -
CB: So you volunteered when you were underage.
JC: I mean the war, the war was on and youngsters wanted to, they didn’t want to stay at home when there was a war on. You can understand that -
CB: Yeah.
JC: I suppose.
CB: Yeah. So you were born in 1922.
JC: Yes.
CB: So the war started when you were seventeen.
JC: Yes.
CB: And you couldn’t join then.
JC: And it had to wait till I was eight -
CB: Exactly. You waited till you were eighteen.
JC: I waited until I was eighteen.
CB: 1940.
JC: Yeah and I took myself to, I took myself to Reading and volunteered.
CB: Did you?
JC: Yeah. Yeah, because I wasn’t twenty I was eighteen.
JC: Yeah. Now you became an air gunner but did you train as a wireless operator/air gunner?
JC: No, I was trained as -
CB: Only as an air gunner.
JC: As an air gunner. Yeah.
CB: Ok. So where did you go for that?
JC: Oh dear. Just let me think where I went for that. Air Gunnery School. I think it was in, down the south if I remember rightly. Yeah. Down south halfway down in the half of England but I can’t remember exactly the name.
CB: Right.
JC: I wish I could.
CB: The reason I ask you is because some people did wireless operator training as well.
JC: Yes.
CB: And that was south of Bristol.
JC: Ah no I didn’t go into the wireless operating.
CB: At all.
JC: I didn’t like, I wasn’t interested in the wireless operating.
CB: Right.
JC: No.
CB: So what attracted you to being an air gunner?
JC: Being a young, young man, wanting to do something you know what I mean and that’s about all I think. It wasn’t any particular reason that I -
CB: Had you done any shooting beforehand?
JC: No.
CB: But you liked the idea of -
JC: I liked the idea of the, yes, I suppose to but I hadn’t done any shooting.
CB: Right. And how did the training go? What did they do first of all when you learned to be an air gunner?
JC: Well -
CB: Was it shotguns or what?
JC: Pardon?
CB: Did they train you on shotguns?
JC: No they didn’t. We never used shotguns. We just went in and the next thing I knew I was, the aeroplane was there and the turret was there and they showed me. They had turrets there that you could get in and use to show you how to -
CB: On the ground.
JC: On the ground. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
JC: And that, that was it.
CB: And they gave you targets to shoot at.
JC: Well no they didn’t even give targets in those days. Not enough space I don’t think [laughs]. No. I don’t remember having to target shoot on the ground.
CB: So you did the ground training.
JC: Oh yes we did trained, yeah.
CB: Then you put them into, they put you into planes where there was a turret in the aeroplane.
JC: Yes. Yeah.
CB: Where was that?
JC: Let me think now, where that was. Somewhere in the Midlands somewhere. I’m not quite certain.
CB: Ok.
JC: Exactly. It’s such a long time ago.
CB: I know. I know.
JC: To remember.
CB: So then there was there were planes that didn’t have an upper gun but had forward or rear turrets and then when you got onto the heavies they had a mid-upper gunner
JC: Some aircraft, don’t forget some of the aircraft never had rear turrets. Not like the ones on the Lancaster for instance. We had a built in turret and also we had a mid-upper turret which I had. I was a mid-upper gunner.
CB: Right.
JC: On the turret.
CB: Did you have a choice and you decided that was the one you wanted or -
No. I don’t think we had a, we went as gunners and that was the one that they gave me and I was quite happy with it because it was a, when I say, when you, if you look at the aircraft and see the turret you’ll find it’s in a wonderful position to see everything and I was quite happy with that.
CB: It’s the one position where you can see everything going on.
JC: Yeah.
CB: ‘Cause the turret would go right around would it?
JC: Oh yes.
CB: Three sixty degrees.
JC: And you could see everything so there was nothing to stop -
CB: Right.
JC: You seeing it so it was good.
CB: And from that position unless there was a mechanism to stop it you could end up shooting off the tail. How did that come about? How -
JC: Oh yes well you had -
CB: Was that avoided?
JC: You had two handles -
CB: Right.
JC: And if you let go you’d stop.
CB: Oh.
JC: You wouldn’t just keep going around and around.
CB: No.
JC: You’d go as far as you wanted to go.
CB: So how was the turret controlled then? You just said two handles.
JC: Yeah.
CB: What did the handles do?
JC: Well, the two handles -
CB: Each did something different.
JC: It was one was for firing the guns and the other one was just to keep moving whatever you wanted on the turret.
CB: The traverse of the turret.
JC: Yes.
CB: Which, which ones did you use for raising or lowering the guns?
JC: Oh God, I wouldn’t know. It’s such a long time ago.
CB: Was that by twisting?
JC: Yes.
CB: Twisting them.
JC: Just twist them -
CB: The handles and the guns -
JC: The guns would go up or down. Whichever way you wanted it but it’s such a long time ago.
CB: Sure.
JC: To remember little things.
CB: But some of these things really, the system was similar to riding a bike in that you had two handles.
JC: Well yeah.
CB: Is that right?
JC: You had two and you’d know exactly what you were doing.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Yeah.
CB: What about the sight. What kind of -
JC: The sight -
CB: Aiming site did you have?
JC: We had a, like a spotlight sort of thing. Yeah. With a -
CB: Was it a circle with a cross in it?
JC: Yes.
CB: Ahum.
JC: Yes.
CB: And did it have some calibration so that -
JC: No. No calibration.
CB: How did you work the range out?
JC: I don’t remember any calibrations on it.
CB: OK.
JC: But er -
CB: I wondered if you had to adjust it to -
JC: Adjust it.
CB: Depending on the type of aircraft you thought -
JC: Yeah.
CB: Was coming at you.
JC: That’s right.
CB: So if it was a 109.
JC: Well -
CB: It’s a smaller aeroplane than if it was a JU88.
JC: That’s right. It was faster anyway. Yeah. Yes.
CB: So how did you adjust the sights for that?
JC: You couldn’t. Not really.
CB: Right.
JC: No. Not to my, not to my knowledge. I can’t remember that. Adjusting it. It was there and you used it. Used it.
CB: So here you are in the mid upper turret.
JC: Pardon?
CB: Here you are in the mid upper turret.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And in flying in the aeroplane what are you doing as the plane is flying along?
JC: Well just looking around. Keeping an eye on everything. Making sure that you see what’s going on. Keeping in touch, you keep in touch with the crew and, not that you say much to the crew because if they’re talking and you want to butt in you, you wouldn’t do that but you could always sit in the turret and look around and see everything that was going on.
CB: Ahum.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And was one of your responsibilities to call up evasive action to the pilot if necessary. So if something, if a fighter is attacking -
JC: Oh yeah.
CB: What do you do? What do you do then?
JC: You just call it. You tell him exactly what’s going on. Yeah.
CB: So are you giving him a commentary?
JC: Oh yeah you’d always make sure that you knew exactly where the aircraft was coming from and what position it was in, obviously but again it’s such a long time ago now to remember.
CB: How many times was your plane attacked?
JC: How many times did -
CB: Was -
JC: We get attacked?
CB: Yes.
JC: Let me think. No, I don’t think we got attacked more than twice. Not actual attacked itself. No. All that I, the last thing I remember is in the aircraft we were up in the aircraft and a fighter plane came up behind us and hit, attacked and I was sitting in the turret and I thought, ‘That’s funny. It’s so quiet.’ So, I looked down the fuselage and I couldn’t see anything so I got out of the turret, went down into the fuselage and looked along. There was nobody there and I walked along and I saw the open hatch so I put my parachute on and dropped. Just like that. [laughs]
CB: So the normal -
JC: Not an easy thing to do.
CB: No.
JC: I can assure you.
CB: What? Trying to, you mean getting out?
JC: Yeah. Well, I mean -
CB: Why wasn’t it easy?
JC: They’re only small holes.
CB: Right.
JC: And you got a parachute on your front and -
CB: How do you do it? Do you sit on the edge or what do you do to get out?
JC: Well yes, you do, the best thing to do is to sit down on the edge of the turret and then drop. Drop in.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And the parachute is on your front rather than on your back. Is it?
JC: It’s on the front.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So what’s the procedure? You sit on the edge of the door -
JC: Just go in.
CB: The hatch.
JC: Sit on the the hatch.
CB: And then what?
JC: Sit on the floor and just drop through the hole.
CB: Ok. So you’ve dropped through the hole. Then what?
JC: You drop through the hole and you see the plane go above you.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
JH: [and you say, ‘Oh shit]
AH: Yeah.
JC: And you think to yourself, ‘Oh.’
CB: Ok.
JC: Then then again it doesn’t take long because when you’re dropping at that height and speed you, it soon seems a long way away so I pulled my cord and my parachute opened straight away.
CB: Right.
JC: And I went down. Yeah. I had no problems with the parachute. Except landing. I landed up against some, somebody’s back door with a metal fence. I didn’t hit, I didn’t hit the fence but I was very close to it I can assure you but they came out and picked me up and sat me down on a seat outside and then the local gendarmes came.
CB: Then what?
JC: I was taken away. As a prisoner of war.
CB: What was their reaction in the house to your arrival?
JC: Oh no problems. They didn’t, they had no reaction whatsoever. No.
CB: These were Germans?
JC: They were Germans, yeah.
CB: Whereabouts?
JC: Pardon?
CB: Whereabouts was this?
JC: Oh I’m just trying to think of where it was. Southern, Southern Germany. Yeah. No. I can’t say I exactly know exactly where it was. I think I’ve got a record of that have I?
AH: I have yeah. I’ve got all that information.
CB: Ok we’ll look that up.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
AH: I can tell you. I’ve got it all here. On the way to [?]
CB: We’ll pick up various bits on the way but when you’re coming down by parachute are you able to see the ground because it’s the middle of the night isn’t it?
JC: Oh yes. You couldn’t, I didn’t see anything. The next thing I know I was on the ground and I picked myself up and sat down on the ground and when I did look I was just about from this chair from that settee there -
CB: Five, six feet yeah.
JC: To an iron fence and I was very close but I didn’t touch it. And then people came out of the house and stood around and just watched me. Looked at me. And then the Germans arrived. Picked me up. Took me away but no, no there were no hard, you know, there was no, no, no hurt, nobody got hurt anyway, put it that way. I didn’t get hurt.
CB: No.
JC: I was lucky.
AH: You had a bar of chocolate you offered to -
JC: Pardon?
AH: You said you had a bar of chocolate that you went to take out -
JC: Oh yeah.
AH: And they all recoiled as though you were going for a gun.
JC: Oh yeah.
AH: But then you took the chocolate out.
JC: I gave, I offered it to them but they wouldn’t take it.
AH: No.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Your chocolate bar.
JC: Pardon?
CB: Your chocolate bar.
JC: Yeah, it was -
CB: Was in your breast pocket was it?
JC: Yeah, used to have it in -
CB: Right.
JC: I offered it to the children.
CB: Oh the children were there were they?
JC: Yeah they came out as well. I wanted to give it but they wouldn’t take it so -
CB: What sort of age were they? What age were the children?
JC: Oh I don’t know. About nine, ten I suppose. Something like that. Oh it was -
CB: So the policeman came, it was a policeman was it who came or a soldier who came?
JC: No they were -
CB: To take you away.
JC: What do you mean?To make out, it was, it was soldiers that came out to pick me up.
CB: Right.
JC: Oh yes. Yeah. And there were no problems. There was no ill treatment whatsoever and the language, well I can’t remember anything going, extraordinary going on. They just picked me up, took me out and put me on transport and then in to town and that was it.
CB: Then what?
JC: It was there that I got, well, put away in a cell and then I was just taken from there to interrogation but that was ok. No problems.
CB: What was the interrogation like? What did they say?
JC: Well nothing, there was no problem. They just wanted to know where I was from, what I was doing and they knew I was a flier because I had my flying kit with me and flying boots and so there was no ill treatment whatsoever. I didn’t expect, I suppose I did in my own mind I expected some trouble but didn’t get any trouble whatsoever.
CB: So what did you tell them?
JC: Didn’t tell them anything. I just said I’m from there and they saw and -
CB: But you were, you were supposed to give them your number and rank were you?
JC: Well yes I suppose they say that you give them the number, rank and name but from there onwards it’s up to them and I waited until a vehicle came along and I got inside this vehicle and they took me into town where I was transferred to a local prison. Yeah.
CB: How many people in the prison?
JC: Pardon?
CB: How many other people in the prison?
JC: Oh I didn’t see anybody, oh there was one other person there. That’s all. But I didn’t speak to him.
CB: Was he also RAF?
JC: Yeah, he was RAF.
CB: But not your crew.
JC: Not my crew. No. No. I hadn’t seen him before.
CB: Right. So from this prison that was just a holding point.
JC: Yeah it was just a holding -
CB: What happened next?
JC: Well you were there for a few days and then you got, they came along and, ‘Raus,’ picked you up, put you in a van and away you went to a, to a big camp.
CB: And where was that?
JC: Oh God knows.
CB: What was it, what was the Stalag Luft?
JC: Stalag Luft something but I couldn’t tell you exactly -
AH: One.
JC: What it was.
CB: Stalag Luft 1.
JC: Stalag Luft well no Stalag Luft 1, was, that was in the north. That’s where I finished up.
CB: Ah.
JC: Stalag Luft 1.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Eventually.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. So how long were you in the camp that they took you to?
JC: Fifteen months.
CB: Oh were you?
JC: Yeah.
CB: So the time you were shot down, when was that, we’re talking about when, 1943 are we? Or -
AH: March ’44.
CB: March ’44.
JC: March ‘44. That’s right. Yeah.
CB: Right ok.
AH: I can give you all the dates.
CB: And then from there you were held in the prison. Were they all air force people in the prison or was it a mixture?
JC: They were mixtures. They were mixtures. There were a lot of Polish, Polish prisoners of war there.
CB: Army.
JC: Because we were up in the Baltic.
CB: Oh.
JC: On the Baltic side and they were the ones that was doing all the work. The Poles from Poland. We didn’t have to do any work but they, they did. They were the ones that were doing all the -
CB: Because you were NCOs, senior NCOs.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So what rank were you at that stage?
JC: I was a warrant officer.
CB: Oh you were then.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Right. So what did you do when you were in the prison camp?
JC: Well there wasn’t much to do I can assure you. You just walked around from place to place. We tried to get into, into a, whatever you could get yourself into if you know what I mean. You had to keep yourself occupied.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Or busy otherwise you’d have gone crazy but I managed.
CB: So the camps were normally split between commissioned officers, NCOs and other ranks.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So -
JC: Well, I had, I had NCOs and sometimes you had ordinary ranks there.
CB: Yeah.
JC: But lower ranks went to another camp.
CB: Yeah.
CB: So who ran your camp?
JC: Who ran?
CB: Who ran it? The Germans obviously but who ran it from an allied point of view.
JC: Oh yeah.
CB: The senior who? The warrant officer was it?
JC: Yeah, they were, I forget what his name was. Now. He was responsible for our actions to them if you know what I mean.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
JC: So he was answerable to them. Anything that was going on he would come to us to explain what was necessary or what new orders had been brought out. Have you got that, yeah?
CB: What rank was he?
JC: He was, let me think what he was, he was only a second lieutenant
CB: Oh he was an officer.
JC: Oh he was an officer. Yeah. Oh yeah.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And what were the activities that you were given to do?
JC: We, as prisoners of war we, and being air crew, we didn’t have to do anything.
CB: No, but they kept you occupied.
JC: Well -
CB: And that’s why I asked about the senior person there.
JC: Yes.
CB: ‘Cause he had a responsibility to keep you busy.
JC: He, they did, I suppose, in a sense but you went, walked around from one camp er one billet to another billet to communicate. That’s about all. Yeah.
CB: So were there people running language classes and -
JC: Pardon?
CB: Were there people running language classes and things like that?
JC: You didn’t, no there wasn’t very very I mean nearly everybody could speak English.
CB: No. I’m talking about the British and Commonwealth prisoners. What were they, what activities did they have because some camps -
JC: Well they either –
CB: Had languages, some did plays, acting and -
JC: Well the Polish, there were a lot of Polish prisoners of war there.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Where I was and they were all, but some of them were working. Some of them worked, some of them had to work, some as didn’t. It depended. No. It’s I know it’s a long time ago and I can’t always remember everything that took place but I remember the Polish.
CB: Yeah.
JC: They were there.
CB: What was the food like?
JC: Well, the Germans were very, well they didn’t have a great deal themselves. Put it that way. We had a bowl of soup or whatever. Whatever they called it, more or less bread. Bread in a bowl of soup and that’s what you got for the day. We didn’t get a great deal.
CB: Ok. When? What time of day were you fed?
JC: Fed? Usually around about 1 o’clock in the daytime. Sometimes it was after, later in the day because they were waiting for food to come in.
CB: Oh.
JC: Yeah. You couldn’t, we couldn’t, you couldn’t say you would be the same day, the same times. One day to the next sometimes.
CB: And what was the soup?
JC: Pardon?
CB: Was it potato soup, vegetable soup? What was it?
JC: Well, you could call it vegetable soup yes but there wasn’t a lot of vegetables in it but it was more liquid than, than anything else but they, don’t forget the Germans were very short of food. I don’t know whether you knew that. God, yes the Germans were very short of food but they were very good. They always made sure that we had our ration so I had no complaints in that respect.
CB: So when you were shot down what was your weight roughly? Body weight. What was your body weight roughly when you were shot down?
JC: My body weight. I wouldn’t like to say. No more than eight stone. Eight stone. Something like that.
CB: What was your height? What was your height?
JC: I was 5, 5’4, 5’5.
CB: Right.
JC: Something like that.
CB: Ok. Yeah.
JC: I’m not quite certain.
CB: And then when you finished at the prisoner of war camp what was your body weight?
JC: My body weight even then because the food that they had was coming from Poland. Russia. So there was no actual added, separate, you know, food. That was once you got that and then we got away from the, the Americans came and then we went home. Yeah.
CB: But what do you think happened to your body weight during that time?
JC: Oh my body weight must have dropped considerably but I suppose I didn’t notice it at the time.
CB: Right. No, so -
JC: I’m not, I’m not what I’d call a big, big man now.
CB: No.
JC: I never have been. I’ve always kept a reasonable weight.
CB: But what was fitness like? Were people reasonably fit?
JC: Yes. Yes I think reasonably were reasonably fit for prisoners of war. Yes. I’d say they were
CB: And was that because there were regular PTI classes? Did they have people out on parade and doing exercises?
JC: Well we, no, we didn’t always have to parade. No. Sometimes you paraded. Other times you didn’t.
CB: But did they get people running around the camp to keep fit?
JC: No. We never got running around the camp, I don’t remember running around the camp.
CB: Football?
JC: Pardon?
CB: Football?
JC: Well yes we used to play sport. Oh yes, yes we had a ball but we didn’t run around unnecessarily if you know what I mean.
CB: So you’re in big long buildings are you? What was the accommodation?
JC: The accommodation. Well they were like billets. Long huts separated like that. There must have been quite a few of those. I wouldn’t like to say how many.
CB: How many in, how many in a hut?
JC: Four to a room.
CB: Four to a room.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Right.
JC: Four to a room.
CB: So they were proper beds. Not bunk beds.
JC: Pardon?
CB: Were they bunk beds or were they ordinary beds?
JC: Well not bunk beds. They were separated. You could move them around, put them where, but there weren’t many you know, the springs weren’t all that wonderful [laughs] but it’s such a long time ago now. Trying to remember everything. Gosh.
CB: Now the continental winters are very cold. The continental winters can be very cold. So -
JC: Oh yes. Yes.
CB: What was it like from that point of view?
JC: Yes and as I say we were up on the Baltic and although the weather up there was better there than lower down because they were getting snow and God knows what whereas we were fortunate up there. So but you just tried to keep warm and running and doing exercises and trying to keep yourself warm. That’s all you could do.
CB: So each day when you were fed where would you be fed? In your room? Was there a communal -
JC: They would come around, the troops would come out with it in buckets.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And how did you get the food then? How did you receive the food?
JC: Each one was dished out into like a -
[Noise of something falling down in the room]
CB: Sorry. It’s ok.
AH: Leave it.
CB: Into a tin?
JC: Pardon?
CB: What was the soup put into?
JC: Yeah it just went into a tin and you helped yourself. Dished up to you. Yeah. Like a billy can. Yeah.
CB: Right. Ok. And what happened on Sundays?
JC: Sunday. I don’t think it made any difference.
CB: Church parade?
JC: I don’t think so. No. I think every day was the same.
CB: Right. And what about people who became unwell. What were the facilities for that?
JC: The facilities were very good in that respect I think. They were looked after. They went into confinement into billets so yes they was confined.
CB: They had a sort of sick quarters did they?
JC: Yeah.
CB: The equivalent of sick quarters.
JC: Yeah. I suppose that’s what you’d call it. Yes.
CB: And was it a German doctor or a British one?
JC: No, it was always German doctors. Yeah.
CB: And nurses?
JC: Americans.
CB: No. Nurses? German nurses?
JC: No. No there was no nurses. They was all men. No. No, they wouldn’t have females.
CB: No.
JC: No.
CB: And what about clerics. Were there padres on, in the camp? Were there padres in the camp?
JC: Graves?
CB: Padres. Clerics.
JC: Clerics.
CB: Yes.
JC: Well yes I suppose there was. A couple I suppose but you’d never notice much.
CB: No. So you were eighteen months in this camp.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Where was the second camp?
JC: Where was the second?
CB: Where was the second camp?
JC: No. I was in that one camp and nothing. I was in that one camp all the time. I don’t remember going into a second camp.
CB: Ok. So at the end of the war then who came to the camp or were you moved out?
JC: Oh the Germans pulled out. It was strange because when we woke up in the morning all the, all the Germans had pulled out so we were left with our own officers and that on the, on the camp and that was it.
CB: So then what?
JC: You just had to wait until we got ordered out, marched out.
CB: So you’re on the Baltic. You’re on your own -
JC: Yeah.
CB: Because there are no guards. Where did you march to?
JC: Where did we march too? We were marched into Germany. We couldn’t go anywhere. We didn’t go out. We stayed in Germany.
AH: The Russians -
CB: The Russians must have been there because the Americans -
AH: Liberated you.
CB: The Americans weren’t in that part of Poland and Germany so who were the people, who were the troops who came to liberate the camp?
JC: Just trying to think who they were. I’ve got an idea it was the Americans that came.
AH: No.
CB: I don’t think so.
AH: No.
CB: Because this was far too far east -
AH: No.
JC: No.
CB: For Americans.
AH: Russians.
JC: Well you’ve got -
AH: Yeah. I’ve got it here. It was the Russians.
CB: They must have been Russian.
AH: It was definitely the Russians.
JC: Well yes there were a lot of Russians obviously. I’m not going to say there wasn’t but -
AH: He’s forgotten.
CB: Ok.
AH: I’ve got it all here.
CB: That’s ok.
JC: You’ve got it all down there.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Good.
CB: So then after you were in that camp they then marched you somewhere else or did they put you in a ship or trucks or what did they do?
JC: Yes, they, after the war, trying to, trying to think back -
CB: Yeah.
JC: To what happened. It’s very difficult. Obviously there was quite a few prisoners of war there and they had to shift them somehow and I don’t know how they shifted them. I’ve got an idea they had troop, troop trains.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah, trains up there. Yeah.
CB: And do you remember how you got back to England?
JC: No, not really. I don’t know. I can’t remember how I got back -
CB: Ok.
JC: To England.
AH: I’ve got it here.
JC: Have you got anything there?
CB: So how did they come back?
AH: Well they were marched to airfields and then he returned in an US aircraft.
JC: Yeah.
AH: A B17. Taken to Biggin Hill.
JC: Went to Biggin Hill.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So you were brought in a B17.
JC: Yeah.
AH: But that was
JC: To Biggin Hill.
AH: There was quite a gap between -
JC: Yeah.
AH: You know -
JC: Yeah.
AH: The liberation of the camp and getting back.
JC: It were.
AH: It doesn’t give dates but -
CB: Well it was a major operation.
AH: Yeah.
JC: Well yes it would be.
AH: They were in -
JC: Because they could carry more -
AH: They were in camp for two weeks anyway.
CB: Yeah.
AH: After it was liberated.
JC: The American aircraft could carry more troops, passengers, than the others.
CB: So you get flown back to Britain.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Then what? So it’s Biggin Hill that they’ve landed you.
JC: Yeah. We landed at Biggin Hill and then we just went and made sure that we went for a medical and the next thing we went down to make sure that we were, went to camp for food. So they did look after us when we got back here. There was no problem about that. Yeah.
AH: It says you were given two weeks leave to make up your mind whether to stay in the RAF or not.
JC: No.
AH: That’s what, that’s what it, you know -
CB: Ok. So you get back. They give you some leave.
JC: Yes.
CB: And then you decide whether you want to stay or whether you want to come out of the RAF.
JC: Come out of the RAF.
CB: So what did you do?
JC: I think I came out. Did I?
AH: Yeah.
JC: Yeah. I enjoyed it.
CB: And then what did you do?
JC: Er -
CB: Because before the war you had been doing wood working.
JC: That’s right.
CB: Carpentry.
JC: Yeah, carpentry.
CB: So what did you do when you returned ‘cause you’re now a warrant officer -
JC: Yeah.
CB: In the RAF.
JC: Oh God. I’m trying, trying to remember now. I think it was, wasn’t it Stokenchurch I was working?
AH: You went into the police.
CB: Oh did you join the police.
AH: Joined the police.
JC: Pardon?
CB: Did you join the police force?
JC: I did join the Met, Met police yes but I’m just trying to think when it was. I was in London and I volunteered into the Met police. No, I’ve had a, I’ve loved, I mean I’ve enjoyed myself.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Whatever I’ve, whatever I’ve been doing.
CB: Yeah.
JH: Didn’t he become an insurance company clerk?
JC: I enjoyed it.
AH: Sorry.
JH: He trained to be an insurance clerk.
AH: Oh, yes, that’s true. Yes.
JH: I think he’d done something before.
CB: So when you came back you had -
AH: Oh wait a second.
CB: Did you have a choice of things you could have done. I’m going to stop briefly now.
[Machine pause]
CB: So we’re restarting now because you’ve got back to Biggin Hill and what did the air force offer you to do? What options?
JC: No. I don’t think -
CB: You could stay or leave. So what -
JC: Stay or leave. Yeah.
CB: Did you decide to do?
JC: No. I can’t, do you know -
CB: You decided to stay.
JC: Yeah. But -
CB: And they offered you something to do.
JC: Yes. What it was now I can’t remember. Driving. That’s what I was –
CB: So you learned to drive did you?
JC: Yeah, I did.
CB: What sort of vehicles?
JC: You know. Big, you know, big ones, not just a car but a van -
CB: Trucks.
JC: Sort of thing. But again once we did that we had to drive the smaller ones as well. No. I got a licence on it. I got my driving licence as well so that made me happy.
CB: So did you then stay on and drive in the RAF or did you decide to leave?
JC: No. I decided to leave.
CB: And then what did you do?
JC: I went into insurance.
CB: Ok.
JC: Again. Didn’t I?
CB: And what was the company?
JC: Hearts of Oak.
CB: And how was that?
JC: In some, that was good. That was right on the, down near Kings Cross. Yeah. Hearts of Oak. No, I did that for a while and then I decided I wanted to do something else and that was it.
CB: So what was your choice after Hearts of Oak? What did you decide to do?
JC: What, after I decided to leave –
CB: Hearts of Oak.
JC: What did I do now?
CB: Was that when you became a policeman was it?
JC: Yes. Obviously that was it. That’s right. I left. I had to, yes. Yes. Then I joined the Metropolitan Police.
CB: How long did you work for them?
JC: Fourteen years. Yeah, it must have been. It must have been at least fourteen years. Then I came out.
CB: Then what? You’re still a relatively young man so what did you do then?
JC: What did I do? I’m just trying to think what I did after that.
AH: Partnership. And you then had the kennels.
JC: Oh I went in, I went in to insurance.
AH: No.
JC: Pardon?
AH: You went in to -
CB: You’ve done that.
JC: Oh I’ve done that. Did I?
AH: You went in to partnership with [Rex?] and had the kennels.
JC: Pardon?
AH: You went in to partnership with [Rex?] and you had the kennels.
JC: Ah the kennels.
AH: Yeah.
JC: That’s right. We, we had boarding kennels. That’s right. I remember now. [With Rex?]
CB: Where were they?
JC: That was in, off the er -
AH: Bushey.
JC: Pardon?
AH: Bushey.
JC: Bushey.
AH: Yeah.
JC: Yeah.
AH: Near –
JC: Not Bushey, no.
AH: Yeah, it was down in Bushey.
JC: Well we ran in part of Bushey, yes.
AH: Yeah. King’s -
CB: So that ran for a while.
JC: Pardon?
CB: That was boarding kennels for dogs.
JC: Yeah. Boarding dogs and, yeah boarding dogs and we used to board people’s animals. Yeah. That was good. I enjoyed that. Noisy but it was good. Yeah. We got plenty of things because you had plenty of dogs every so often and they’d only come in for maybe a couple of weeks and then they’d go and another lot would come in. So –
CB: How long did you do that for?
JC: Two years.
AH: No.
JC: Two or three years, I suppose.
AH: At least ten.
JC: Pardon?
AH: At least ten.
CB: More than ten. More than ten years.
AH: At least ten years.
JC: Did I?
AH: Yeah.
JC: Oh alright. You know more than me.
CB: Ok. So we’re going to stop there just for a mo.
JC: Ok. Sorry about -
[machine pause]
CB: Who do you remember as members of your crew? Who was the skipper?
JC: Cooper.
CB: Ok.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Sergeant pilot or, what was he?
JC: He was an officer. He’d just got his commission.
CB: Right.
JC: Cooper.
CB: Nav?
JC: Married.
AH: No. Navigation.
CB: Navigator.
AH: Navigator.
JC: Oh.
AH: I’ve got it actually.
JC: I forgot what he was called. I remember him.
AH: I’ve got it all here.
JC: Navigator. He was a little short stocky man from the north. In the midlands. [laughs] I can’t remember his name.
CB: Ok then. Wireless operator.
JC: Smith. Smith. Smith. Would be Smithy. Yeah.
AH: Sergeant Whicher. Who was Whicher?
JC: Whicher. Yeah. He was the, now what was he?
CB: Engineer was he?
JC: Engineer. That’s right he was an engineer.
AH: MacFadden.
JC: Pardon? No.
AH: You’ve got another one. He’s Flight Sergeant MacFadden.
JC: Yes, flight sergeant.
CB: Was he the rear gunner or what was he?
AH: No, Hind. R Hind was the rear gunner and he was the only one that was killed on the, he didn’t survive.
CB: Right. So it sounds as though it was a rear attack -
JC: Yeah.
CB: On the aircraft doesn’t it?
AH: Well no he was alive. He went down with the plane.
CB: Oh.
JC: No he -
AH: He didn’t get out did he? We don’t know ever what happened. I mean we know he’s buried out in –
JC: Yeah well I don’t remember. I mean as I said to you, said that he was the only one to die.
AH: Yeah.
CB: Yes.
JC: But I wouldn’t, I don’t remember that because -
AH: No. You’ve told me -
JC: When I left the -
AH: Yeah.
JC: When I got out the plane and looked in the fuselage I couldn’t see anybody and I went down the, walked down to the front and the hatch was open so I put my parachute on and jumped. I didn’t see anything or anybody else.
AH: No but he would have been right at the back -
JC: He could have been.
AH: Of the plane, so -
JC: Yeah. Could have been.
CB: So you jumped out. There was nobody at the front.
JC: No.
CB: Why was the plane going down? Why had everybody got out?
JC: Why?
CB: Was it on fire or what was it?
JC: Well the machine, the aircraft had been hit from the behind.
CB: Right.
JC: The night fighter had come up behind us and fired right through the cabin.
CB: Oh had it?
JC: Yeah.
CB: But nobody in the, was hit. The other people -
JC: Well not to my knowledge. I don’t know. I mean I would –
CB: It went under your feet.
JC: Nothing underneath. I was fine. I was up in the mid upper turret.
CB: Yes.
JC: And obviously the pilot came up to the tail -
CB: Yeah.
JC: And fired down, went down the fuselage and they all disappeared so, and the hatch was open.
CB: Yes. I just wondered whether you knew why the plane had come down.
JC: Well –
CB: I mean was it because the engines had been hit? What was the matter?
JC: Our plane.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Ah.
CB: What was the matter with it?
JC: Well I knew we’d been hit because the way the aircraft was flying.
CB: Oh.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Go on. How was it flying?
JC: Well it was, it was going down and we should have been flying along.
CB: Yeah.
JC: And, but it wasn’t sharp, if you know what I mean
AH: Yeah [?]
JC: It gave me a chance to get out of the aircraft and down and of course when I looked –
AH: [?]
JC: When I got down into the aircraft there was nobody in the -
AH: Haven’t seen it for a long time.
CB: At the front
JC: Cockpit whatsoever.
CB: No.
JC: Completely empty. I was the last one to leave.
AH: Yeah.
CB: And did you ever meet up with the rest of the crew?
JC: No.
CB: Do you know what happened to them?
JC: Not really. No. No. I don’t know what happened to the crew.
CB: So you were captured, taken prisoner, you got back to Britain. Did you ever try to make contact with the crew? Find out what had happened to them?
JC: Well obviously I did. Yes.
CB: And what happened?
JC: I tried but -
CB: Yeah.
JC: Didn’t have much success.
CB: Right. So you don’t know whether they survived or not.
JC: No. I don’t know whether, have you heard anything Andrea?
AH: MacFadden’s family did get in touch with me. He died many years ago.
JC: Did he?
AH: They came to see you and you told them a lot and gave them a lot of information. This is quite a few years ago but he died and he never talked about it.
CB: No.
JC: No.
AH: So they couldn’t find anything so they found out more from my dad about their flying days but the crew seemed to, no they didn’t seem to socialise after, or meet up, contact after the war.
JC: No.
AH: At all. They all seemed to go their own way.
CB: Why do you think that was?
AH: No idea. I never really got that out of, it just never seemed to be -
JC: Well. I suppose it was the end of the war and they just wanted to get away from it all.
CB: Yes. I think it’s an interesting question. Why is it -
JC: I don’t know.
CB: People didn’t talk.
JC: Don’t know. Don’t know.
CB: When did you meet your wife? When did you meet your wife, Jim?
JC: When did I leave?
CB: When did you meet?
AH: When did you meet mummy?
CB: Sheila.
AH: Yeah.
CB: When did you meet her?
JC: When did I meet Sheila?
AH: Yeah. You were training weren’t you? In London.
JC: Oh I was staying in London. Yeah. That’s where I met my wife. Yeah.
CB: What, was she a WAAF?
JC: Sheila.
CB: Was she a WAAF?
JC: She wasn’t in, no, she wasn’t, she was -
AH: No.
JC: She was working in a big company down in London. Camden Town wasn’t it?
AH: Yeah she was quite a bit, she was younger, quite a bit younger so she wouldn’t have been working probably.
JC: Yeah she would.
AH: To begin with, she was never, in fact she was evacuated at the beginning of the war. Hated it. Said to her mother, ‘If you don’t come and collect me I’m leaving. I’m walking home,’ sort of thing. Came back, lived in London all through the bombings and the air raids and everything.
JC: Yeah.
AH: So she was too, she wouldn’t have been working.
CB: What was her date of birth?
AH: Oh ‘32 that would have been -
JH: She used to keep it secret.
AH: Yeah. There’s about ten years difference -
JH: I have got it.
AH: Isn’t there?
CB: Right.
JH: [from my clearance forms?]
CB: So -
AH: Probably ten year’s difference.
JC: Northwest, in London.
AH: Yeah, mummy’s date of birth. Can you remember that? Mummy’s date of birth.
JC: Whose?
AH: Mummy.
JC: When was she born?
AH: Sheila.
JC: Oh Sheila.
AH: Yeah. When, what’s her date of birth?
JC: I can’t remember.
AH: Well maybe -
JC: It’s so many years ago now sorry.
AH: Yeah its, probably -
CB: Ok. Different question.
AH: Yeah.
CB: When were you married?
JC: A good question. Been married about twenty six years, twenty six, twenty seven. No. More than that because -
AH: No. When you got married.
JH: [?]
AH: I know when you -
CB: I’m going to stop just for a moment.
JC: Yeah.
[Machine pause]
CB: So we’re out of sequence now but we’re talking about the point when the aircraft was lost so the engagement, the aircraft. You were shot down were you? By a fighter.
JC: Yes.
CB: And what type of fighter was it. It was in the dark.
JC: It was in the dark. I don’t think we would have seen it. I’ve got an idea it was a single engine fighter.
CB: Oh.
JC: But nobody, nobody could say one way or the other.
CB: Ok so when did you know that the plane was crippled.
JC: What my plane?
CB: Yes.
JC: When I looked down to the fuselage and found that I was the only one left in it.
CB: Yes. What made you do that?
JC: I don’t know.
CB: Had you called up?
JC: I looked down and I just saw and I couldn’t get no replies from any of the –
CB: Oh I see.
JC: From the, you see.
CB: Right.
JC: And I looked down and there was nothing there so I thought I’d get down and when I walked along the corridor to the front entrance it was all open.
CB: There was nobody there.
JC: So I just went with it.
CB: It sounds like the intercom wasn’t working, and what what did you know about the plane that shot you down?
JC: Nothing.
CB: Did you see it?
JC: No.
CB: Right.
JC: No.
CB: But did anybody shoot at it?
JC: Nobody. There was nobody else there to my knowledge.
CB: No, but before then.
JC: Before? No, nobody. No we never heard any machine gun fire or saw anything, tracers or anything. I would have seen it because I was in the mid upper.
CB: Yes.
JC: And that was in the best position to see anything.
CB: Yes.
JC: But there was nothing in the air.
CB: Right.
JC: Nothing at all.
CB: So is it possible that the plane was underneath and so nobody could see?
JC: Well, there is, there is that possibility that he came up behind us and then he, yes. I imagine that was what happened. I don’t know. I can’t say for sure but that would be the obvious position for him to come up behind and then shoot.
CB: What did you know, what did you understand about the word scarecrow?
JC: Scarecrow?
CB: Ahum.
JC: No. Don’t know anything about scarecrow.
CB: Ok. Because, but also what do you know about the upward firing guns of the night fighters. Did you know about those?
JC: No.
CB: Right.
JC: No. No.
CB: The reason I ask the question is because you didn’t see anything and it sounds as though the rear gunner didn’t. Is that right?
JC: Well as far as I know he didn’t see anything.
CB: But the aircraft was crippled.
JC: Yeah.
CB: That would suggest the possibility that it was hit by one of the bigger night fighters with upward firing cannon.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Which they called Schrage Musik.
JC: Yeah. Oh -
CB: And that was aimed at the port inner.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Tank.
JC: That could have happened, that could have happened but as I say that’s nothing I can say about that.
CB: No.
JC: I can’t guarantee that.
CB: But was there any fire on the aircraft?
JC: No fire. No, because when I looked in, down the fuselage there was no fire at all.
CB: Right. And what about the bombs? Were they still in the aircraft or had they been dropped?
JC: Oh they’d all been jettisoned. Jettisoned.
CB: You hadn’t reached the target.
JC: Oh we hadn’t reached the target. No.
CB: No.
JC: Oh no.
CB: How far away were you from the target? Roughly.
JC: We were flying up towards, yeah oh about fifteen miles I suppose.
CB: And what sort of height were you flying?
JC: We were up at twenty, nineteen to twenty one, eighteen, no between eighteen and twenty one thousand. I couldn’t give you anything closer than that.
CB: No. Did you, did the pilot tend to change the height -
JC: No.
CB: Regularly or always keep the same?
JC: No. It stayed the same.
CB: Right. And could you see any other bombers?
JC: No.
CB: Even in your, even from your position -
JC: No.
CB: You couldn’t see anything?
JC: Couldn’t see anything. No.
CB: Oh.
JC: No.
CB: And you, could you –
JC: It was pitch black
CB: Yeah, and was at fifteen miles would you be able to see the target -
JC: Fifteen miles.
CB: At that point?
JC: No. You wouldn’t have been able to see the target at fifteen miles away.
CB: No.
JC: Not at that height.
CB: So were you a standard bomber or were you Pathfinder?
JC: I was a Pathfinder.
CB: You were Pathfinders.
JC: We were Pathfinders.
CB: So you were out front. You were ahead of -
JC: Yes we were -
CB: The stream.
JC: In the front.
CB: Yes.
JC: We were leading, you know. Actually Pathfinders, just because they were the Pathfinders you didn’t have to be in front. You could be backing up. You get what I mean.
CB: I do. So -
JC: I don’t know if we were backing up or whether we were in the front.
CB: So backing up would mean what?
JC: Back up. You’d have a gap between you and the other aircraft.
CB: With the purpose of doing what?
JC: Pardon?
CB: What was the purpose of that?
JC: Well to make sure that there was nothing in between you and the fighters couldn’t come in between you.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Yeah.
CB: But as a Pathfinder there was one at the front so the backup was to do another marking job. Was it?
JC: Yeah. Yes. Yes.
CB: So you were to re-mark the target. Is that the idea?
JC: That’s what the idea was. Yeah.
CB: Right. So you would go in slightly ahead of the rest of the stream.
JC: Yes slightly ahead of the rest and the others would follow and then you’d have a backup.
CB: Yeah.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So when the bombs went, were dropped, your bombs, how long did you have to fly straight and level before you could turn?
JC: Well once they’ve gone the aircraft would lift.
CB: Oh yeah.
JC: And then you could just go.
CB: But you had to take the picture first.
JC: We didn’t take pictures.
CB: No. There was a camera just under the pilot.
JC: Yes but whether he could have taken -
CB: So –
JC: Them or not I don’t know.
CB: No.
JC: No.
CB: But the purpose of that was to show where the bombs had dropped.
JC: Yeah.
CB: And that was -
JC: Well I can imagine all that but -
CB: Just a single camera but a single shot based on -
JC: Yeah.
CB: The flare ‘cause you, when did you, when did the flare get dropped after the bombs?
JC: The flare was dropped after the bombing. Well, I never saw any flares.
CB: Right. Because you were on the top so you couldn’t see that.
JC: Couldn’t see any. We never saw any –
CB: No.
JC: Flares. No.
CB: So what I was getting at was that my understanding is that you had the pilot had to run the plane for anther period. At twenty thousand feet it would be longer than if it was ten thousand feet.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So that the flare could be dropped to illuminate the target to show what was happening.
JC: Oh well it would do but like I say -
CB: Which was about twenty to forty seconds.
JC: Yes. These things, don’t forget they when they happened they happened very quickly.
CB: Yes quite. That’s why I’m asking you.
JC: [?]
CB: Yeah.
JC: You must know that.
CB: Yes.
JC: And you take your eye off, if you take your eye off it you lose something. So -
CB: The gunners were the key people to get the pilot to take evasive action.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Did you ever instruct the pilot on evasive action and what was it?
JC: No. No. No, the only time we’d mention anything was if we saw something.
CB: Yeah.
JC: But other than that the pilot would be doing his own job.
CB: And a final question. The gunners are on the aeroplane looking backwards but you’re looking all the way around. Under what circumstances would you fire the guns?
JC: Under what circumstances? Well I wouldn’t be, you wouldn’t fire the guns unless you were certain that the target was in front, whatever you were facing. You wouldn’t just fire anywhere. You’d wait until you saw exactly what you were firing at.
CB: Right. When you were being attacked.
JC: Yeah. If we were being attacked.
CB: Yeah. Ok.
JC: Yeah because I mean if you could do that you could even shoot somebody else down.
CB: Yeah.
JC: And you wouldn’t like that. God.
CB: What was the attitude of the crew towards these raids?
JC: What? What -
CB: Going on operations, what was the attitude of the crew? How did they feel about it?
JC: Well they felt, they felt they were happy with it. There were no problems. They didn’t, they never complained. No. I think they were all pleased to get back.
CB: Right.
JC: Imagine. No.
CB: And in the squadron or on other squadrons what did you know about LMF?
JC: LMF. Well it was lack of moral fibre wasn’t it? Yeah. Well, I never came across any of it ‘cause everybody, everybody I ever met and was on with there was never any mention of LMF. The plane was there and they’d go and that was it. All come back. No. Know what it was. Lack of moral fibre but I don’t think any of them, I never, I never heard of any one being treated that way.
CB: What did they do to them after, if they were -
JC: I don’t know.
CB: Branded that way? Do you know?
JC: No. I never did find out because I never saw one.
CB: No.
JC: Do you know whatever happened to them?
CB: Well there is a story about it.
JC: Oh is there.
CB: Yeah. Which is that they were paraded in front of the rest of the station -
JC: Oh.
CB: And had their stripes removed and their brevets.
JC: Well -
CB: Publically.
JC: Well, I don’t know. I’ve never seen it and I’ve never heard of it -
CB: No.
JC: So I didn’t take any notice of things like that.
CB: No. Well –
JC: No.
CB: Clearly there wasn’t a problem there.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Where were you billeted?
JC: Where were I billeted? Where the hell was it? No. Just up in the, we were billeted up in, wait a minute, where were we, we were in Northern France, Northern France up towards Poland.
CB: Ok. Yeah but when you were stationed at Bourn, RAF Bourn near Cambridge.
JC: Yeah.
CB: What was the billet arrangements?
JC: What was the arrangement?
CB: Yeah. So were you all in one nissen hut?
JC: Not necessarily no. Not all in one. No, because usually you find four in one and three maybe in another.
CB: Oh.
JC: No, we never stayed actually all in -
CB: You never had everybody together.
JC: No. I don’t think we -
CB: Was the captain, the pilot a commissioned, was he a -
JC: Most, yeah they got, most they did eventually get commissioned.
CB: Yes.
JC: Yes.
CB: Right.
JC: They weren’t all, not when they first started.
CB: But when you were flying with your crew what was the rank -
JC: He got commissioned. He got commissioned while he was -
CB: Did he?
JC: When we started, just after we started.
CB: Right.
JC: Yeah.
CB: So he wasn’t billeted with you.
JC: No. No. No.
CB: No. Right. And for social, when they were on socials did, what did the crew do?
JC: Well they never mixed much put it that way.
CB: Oh really.
JC: No.
AH: Oh really.
JC: No. They just went in their own ways and that was it.
CB: So was that, do you think, because you weren’t all in one nissen hut or because of the -
JC: Well I don’t really know -
CB: Temperament of the people.
JC: What it was all about. Don’t forget everybody had their own ways of living and displaying things. I don’t know. It’s very difficult, a very difficult question to answer. You’ve got people, you’ve got to read people’s minds and it’s not always possible to do that under those circumstances because if things happen they happen quickly as you appreciate.
CB: So you’ve got a crew of seven. Did, were you closer to -
JC: Well -
CB: Some of the members than others?
JC: Crew of seven.
CB: There was seven in the aircraft.
JC: Oh yes seven in the aircraft.
CB: Yeah.
JC: But they were all in different positions.
CB: I know. Sorry what I meant was, socially did you tend to get together?
JC: Oh once we were stationed [and ok?] either, if we were there for a couple of nights or somewhere then we’d get together. Yes.
CB: Yeah.
JC: But other than that no.
CB: Were you more friendly with some of the crew members than others or –
JC: No. I mean -
CB: Just with everybody.
JC: Everybody, everybody got on fine.
CB: Yeah.
JC: I never found any animosity.
CB: No.
JC: Amongst the crews. You know.
CB: ‘Cause some crews would only go out together.
JC: No.
CB: And everybody at the same time.
JC: Yeah, well you don’t know, I mean -
CB: But not with yours.
JC: Yeah.
CB: Right. Finally what was the most memorable thing -
JC: What was the -
CB: About, what would you say was the most memorable experience of your time in the RAF?
JC: My most memorable. Well I don’t think I had anything, you know. We just took it in our stride. We knew what we were doing we used to go in the afternoon and get briefed and then we’d go for a meal and then we’d go, stay together, we’d, once you, once you got briefed you stayed together as members of the crew.
CB: Right.
JC: You didn’t leave and then you’d go and have your meal, go out, go to your locker room, get all your kit.
CB: Right.
JC: Put it on, go together back to the aircraft and that was it so there was no chance of anybody going from one to another. They stayed together.
CB: What sort of rituals did people have before they went on ops?
JC: Well yes a ritual but nothing that you could say anything there was no nothing back behind it put it that way. I know people might think there was but why would they do that because they wouldn’t know whether they were going to get killed or not?
CB: So were people, how did people feel about the flight, the operation before they left?
JC: Well I suppose like anything else mostly because as I say most of our flights were at night so it was always dark when you went, well most of the time anyway by the time you got into top of Germany it, nervous maybe but but I never heard any complaints regarding that at all so I wouldn’t like to say one way or the other.
CB: How many ops did you do in total?
JC: I’m just trying to think myself. Do you remember?
AH: I think it was about six or seven.
JC: Either six or seven yeah six or seven operations.
AH: Yeah.
JC: Until we got shot down. Yeah. I know that.
CB: What do you think being a Pathfinder did for your likelihood of survival?
JC: Being a Pathfinder? No. I don’t think being a Pathfinder made any difference whatsoever. Not really.
CB: On the basis of whether the Germans could identify who you were -
JC: No.
CB: In the air.
JC: No. I don’t think so. There was nothing, no way, no way the Germans could identify one aircraft from another. To my knowledge anyway. Because there was no signals given. Once you were airborne, once you’d left the ground, field there was no communications between aircraft. Not to my knowledge anyway as an air gunner.
CB: Ok good. Final. I keep saying final but this is the final one.
JC: What’s that?
CB: What do you, what sticks in your mind most about your, what sticks in your mind most about the time when you were a prisoner of war.
JC: That’s a good question because I think the most, thing that was in everybody’s mind was how long we were going to be here because nobody knew how long you were going to be a prisoner of war and prisoners, don’t forget, prisoners were coming in regularly. Daily. Five or six would turn up one night. Two or three the next day. You’d never know how many was going to turn up and how long you were going to be there but it wasn’t until the Germans pulled out completely that we knew we were coming home eventually. Then we had to wait for aircraft to bring us home.
CB: Jim Copus in Hemel Hempstead thank you very much.
[machine pause]
CB: Right. Andrea’s just going to tell us the extra bit about the prison camp and the end of the time. What was that?
AH: Yes I think my father’s sort of forgotten towards the end when the Germans realised that they were losing the war and the, sort of, Germans, you know, were getting rather, sort of, jittery and you know, and they knew that, you know, they weren’t going to, sort of, be in power for much longer and they sort of then just left the camp and it was the Russians that were coming through. Although my father’s sort of spoken they were pretty awful to the villages and the treatment of the locals. They weren’t very nice people let’s put it that way although they liberated the prisoner of war camp and in fact one of the Russians, they gave my father some money, you know, sort of exchanged a note which we had for many years and now we can’t find it but it was in somewhere you know that we had at home and so but as you say they liberated them and then they sort of made their own way back sort of, eventually to, I’m not really sure of the actual details of, you know, how they got our physically from the camp, apart from just walking out. Who oversaw it because the Russians just sort of you know left them to it. They didn’t sort of aid them or help them in that respect apart from liberating.
CB: Ok.
AH: And that’s it really.
CB: And this is Stalag Luft 1.
AH: Stalag Luft 1.
CB: Yeah.
AH: Right in the north.
CB: Right. Thank you.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Jim Copus. Two
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-02-24
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Sound
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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ACopusJ160224
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Copus was born in Watlington and volunteered for the Royal Air Force when he was eighteen. After training, he flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 97 Squadron from RAF Bourn. On one operation he realised that it was very quiet. He could not get a response on his intercom so left the turret to investigate. He found that he was alone in the aircraft and seeing the escape hatch was open he grabbed his parachute and made his escape from the stricken aircraft. He landed near a farmhouse and following his arrest he was sent to Stalag Luft 1. He was a prisoner of war for fifteen months before the camp was liberated by the Russians and he was repatriated. Following his demobilisation, he worked in insurance, the Metropolitan Police and as manager of kennels.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany--Barth
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1942
1943
Format
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01:16:28 audio recording
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
bombing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
RAF Bourn
shot down
Stalag Luft 1
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/499/8389/PCranstonJ1501.1.jpg
689cbf838a7b29eeead356840b413cdf
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/499/8389/ACranstonJ151019.1.mp3
44dac10d3900334cb13d19833ed7e6c5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cranston, Jack
J Cranston
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Cranston, J
Date
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2015-10-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flying Officer Jack Cranston (185331, 1457551 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 207 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Marion Cranston and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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My name is Jack Edward Cranston, and I worked, nah, I don't want to say I worked, and I joined the Air Force in Leeds. I was sent to, oh dear, I've forgotten where it was. (Noises off) I joined the Air Force in Leeds, and was sent to Southern Rhodesia to train, We first trained on Tiger Moths, and having passed out after training, we were then sent to train on Oxfords. Having passed out on Oxfords and received my Pilot's wings we were then put on ships and sent back to England. When we got to England we had a few weeks back on Oxfords, and then we went, I'll leave the name open, 'cause I'm not sure now, (muffled noises). Following a few weeks on Tiger Moths, we then went on to Oxfords, Airspeed Oxfords, and did training on – what do you call it when you go on a-? We were posted on to a Wellingtons RAF station and did more training.
Woman's voice: Do you want a cup of tea?
JC: From the Wellington we then went on to four engined Stirlings to do a bit more training (pause) Stirlings, on Stirlings, we were then posted to a squadron of Lancasters, which we did one or two flights, and then went on to operations, and the first operation that I did was (pause) Canal, and that was-
Woman's voice: It doesn't really matter.
(recorder noises)
JC: (unclear) I served in the Royal Air Force, and finished as a flying officer. I trained in Southern Rhodesia, and became a pilot on twin engined Oxfords. On returning to England (pause) (recorder noises) (unclear) although I was in a reserved occupation in York, if you went to Leeds it didn't matter, and so my brother first, and then me, we went to Leeds and joined the Air Force, and that was in nineteen forty two. Having joined the Air Force you were sent home to wait to be called up, which in my instance was about six or seven weeks, and then I had a railway warrant to go to St John's Wood in London, and that was the Air Force recruiting place. And I went down to St John's Wood and joined the Air Force. From there I was sent by boat to South Africa, and then up to Southern Rhodesia, where I did all my training on Tiger Moths, and then on Oxfords. Having passed out as a pilot on multi engines we came, came home via South America, I don't know why, but, we went from Durban to Uruguay, Montevideo. When we got to Montevideo, oh crikes it was marvellous, welcomed with open arms. In fact they provided coaches so we could have a trip all round Uruguay. And so we had a trip, couple of days, travelling all round Uruguay, stopping in little villages and towns, and then back, back to Montevideo, and we waited for a boat home. Well, the boat, when it came, was similar to the one we went out in, but where we had hung hammocks on hooks, this time it was full of meat, so we were lucky, we were in cabins. Just, not many of us really, but anyway we got on the boat and sailed, sailed home, and docked at Bristol. And from there we were given rail warrants to get back to Lincoln. And so on the train we were all, (unclear) there wasn't that many of then, like, there was about a dozen, so we all went to Lincoln, and from Lincoln it was more or less, you did more or less what you wanted. I thought, 'well, I've come to Lincoln, I might as well go home'. And so I got the train to York and went home, and had a couple of weeks at home, and I thought, 'well I better go and find out what's happening', being in the Air Force. So I went back, and I was sent to the squadron, 249 Squadron, and they were stationed at a little place, near Skegness, actually, the aerodrome, and it was ideal for travelling across the North Sea into Germany. I had a nice time there, but eventually you had to go on to a squadron, a proper squadron, and I joined the 207 Squadron, and they were stationed in Lincolnshire nearer the coast, so that it was easy for us to take off, and the coast was just about twenty miles away, and we just see- sailed over the coast and across the North Sea and ready for Germany. And this we did mostly at night, I think there was only a couple of daylight raids we went on, but most were at night, and I got, I done twenty two, but the tour was thirty, so on my twenty second I got shot down, and baled out. And I was captured and taken to an interrogation centre where I met up with my navigator. But he was just ready, he'd been there a few days, and he was just ready to go out, so I had a word with the German officer in charge and asked whether I could go with him, but the answer was,'no'. So they wouldn't let me go with him. So I stayed for another, about a week actually, before we started to move out. I must say by this time, like, it was getting on into nineteen forty five. And we marched out, a hundred, and there was this American private which I'd met, and he was limping a bit so he was hanging on to me, and we dropped to the end of the column, and as we were ten miles away from the coast, we had a German guard with a fixed bayonet with us, so it weren't easy to get away, you know? And that went on most of the day, and I suppose it must have been around four o clock when this American I was with, he started limping very badly, and we dropped back and back with one German guard. And the column was four or five hundred yards ahead, and then suddenly there was a shell whistled, whistled over the top of us, and this German guard we had, he went, he disappeared, so there was just the two of us. So this American private says, 'come on, full field off the road, otherwise we'll get shot'. So I went with him, as he was the more experienced at this sort of-. And after the column had gone I came out and he says, 'well, the only thing that we can do really is to follow them', but to keep a good distance so as they didn't know we were there. And so we followed the column which was going to a prison camp, but we dropped away from them before we got there, and set off on our own, heading West. That was all we knew, we wanted West. And so it was only by watching the sun go down that we knew where West was. (chuckles) Anyway, we started heading off, and we, we'd gone a fair way when a shell whistled over the top, top of us. The column was in front, they'd gone about, oh, fifty yards in front of us, and this shell came across, and this German guard that we had with us, he disappeared straight away. And this American, he says, 'come on', he says, 'off the road at full field, and get your head down'. And so I thought, 'well, he knows what he's doing', so that's what we did, we ran across the field, and get your head down. Wait. And then of course shells started flying all over, and the American column, tanks in the front of it, started firing all around, and once they got past there was a bit of a lull, and he shouted out, 'Ah mates!' And this burly American, 'come out with your hands up'. (in American accent) So we went out with our hands up, and him being a yank, we were immediately taken on board one of the tanks. And we told them about the column, and so the tank commander that we were with got on to the scout tank in the front and told him that there was a column of a hundred prisoners being guarded by guards either side, and we were on the tank. So obviously, the scout tanks in front released all the prisoners. They were stood at the side of the road, and I thought, 'well here we are then'. But it wasn't here we are because they just went straight past them, with us still on the tank. And there were all our mates, like, stood at the side of the road. And so we went with the tank, firing and firing. And then we stopped for the night, and the tank commander went to a house, and he gave the people in it ten minutes to pack up and leave, and took the house over for the night. Just chucked them out, you know. They could take a few clothes with them, obviously, but we slept the night there, and in the morning we had breakfast there, and then we joined the column again, and went off. And at the end, the following night, he says, 'well, you're alright because tomorrow there'll be lorries coming up with supplies for us, and you can join them when they go back.' And so this is what happened. (Unclear) They dumped off all the supplies. We gone on the back of the tank, two of us, then set off back. And they got back to where it was all in our hands, at least, American hands, and we got off the tank and we had a real lovely meal, somewhere, like, with the yanks. They didn't do anything that was half-hearted, you know, there was everything, you know, if you wanted a meal you got a meal. And then, we stayed with them on the back of a tank for a full day, and then that night the tank commander said, 'well, you can stay here tonight, because in the morning we'll be having supplies coming up, and when they've dropped them off, they can take you back.' And that's just what happened. These lorries came up, dumped all the supplies and the yank and me got on one of the lorries, and they took us to Paris. And that's where he dropped us off, in the middle of Paris, which was a bit awkward because neither of us had any money. So I says, ' oh come on then, we'll - '. 'No', he says, 'come to our place, the yanks, we have more than you have', So I said, 'aye, that's right', so we went to the American consulate in Paris. And he, he got a taxi for us, paid for it, and took us to the American camp, in Paris. When I say camp, it weren't a camp, it was buildings, cos they liked their comfort, did the yanks. Anyway, he took us there and dropped us off, and I says, 'what now?' He says, 'well, I'm alright', he says, cos these are all Americans. He says 'I'll, wait a minute', he says, 'I'll go and see what I can do for you'. Any way, the upshot was he got a car. He says, 'there you are, you've got a driver. He'll take you where you want'. I says, 'Right', I says, 'where's the nearest British camp?' And he took me there. It took about a couple of hours, but when I got off there it was all English, English speaking people, you know, not yanks. And I was welcomed there, I had to tell the CO where'd I'd been, what I'd done, and how I'd come to be where I was. And then, 'well', he says, 'you're with us today and tomorrow, but probably on the next day-', I can't remember the days they were, they were just days, you know, I couldn't say whether it was Wednesday, Thursday, or what. But he says, ' the next day we'll be sending our trucks back to pick up supplies, you can go back with them'. Which was what happened. I was dumped in Paris. they went off, the American went off, I went to the British consulate, like, they gave me some money to get food. They said, 'well, there's nothing much we can do to you until we get some planes coming from England, so one could take you back, so I was stuck in Paris for a couple of days with nothing to do, just hang around really because I had no money, no French money. I had some English money, but no French money, so, but all meals were provided anyway in British service, and then the lorry (unclear), so I got a lift back. And it dumped me in London. And so I thought, 'right'. So the WAAF came over, she says, 'What's the nearest railway station to your aerodrome?' So I lived in York, so I said, 'York'. (chuckles) And so they gave me a railway warrant to York. So I went to York , and I went home. Well, you know, my mother didn't know I was back even, so it was a bit of a tearful reunion (chuckles). Because my father had been killed, oh a while before that, years before. He was a conductor on a tram, and he was pulling the trolley down, and another tram came along and crushed him between the two trams. In fact, I never saw him, but my mother said they hadn't even removed his clothes. He was still in his old, well uniform, with blood all over it because he'd been crushed between two trams. And she got nothing. Not a thing did she get from the council. So it was hard work, I know, I mean she went out cleaning in a morning, she went out cleaning offices at night, and we, well I got into the Air Force, like, and was told to report to Lincoln, and join the squadron again. And that's how it happened. Me brother, he went to Canada, and we had relations in Canada, so he was alright, he did very well. Well, just as well, like, cos he was eventually killed in the war, The plane he was on was shot down and they were all killed. Because he was a navigator, and, but I was still in France, was it France, or had I got to the-, no it was France because I was sat in Paris, looking miserable, and this fellow came up, he says, 'what the hell's the matter with you?,' he says, 'you like as if you've lost a couple of hundred pounds and found a penny'. I said, 'well, it's not quite as bad as that, but it's pretty bad. I'm stuck in Paris, and I want back to England. I say,' I said, 'what do you do?'. 'Oh', he said, 'I fly supplies from Paris to England.' 'Oo', I says, 'you're just the man I want to see. You can take me back'. He says, 'well yes I can', he says, 'but you'll have to be up at half past five in the morning. I'll pick you up at a quarter to six.' And he says, 'if you're not there, I'll just go'. I was there. I made sure of it. He took me, and he was flying supplies from Paris to Croydon, so I landed up in Croydon. And I, I can remember Croydon. And I went to the local Air Force place, and they said, 'well, what can we do for you?. And I said, 'well, first off, ' I said, 'I want some money to buy a new uniform', and told them who I was, I was a Flying Officer by then, Flying Officer Cranston. I says, 'I've got to get a uniform', I says, 'all this rubbish that I'm wearing'. 'Yeah okay'. So, she didn't give me money, she gave me a token, think it was about ten pound, something like that anyway, so I could go and buy a new uniform. So I bought a new uniform, and I went back, and I said, 'well, now what?' And she says, 'well, what's the nearest railway station to your aerodrome?' So I said, 'York'. It wasn't, York was where I lived, now I wasn't going to go back to the Air Force just yet. (chuckles) So she gave me a rail warrant to York. I went to York, and got a tram, trams were running then, got a tram up to Brighouses, where we lived. And I'm walking down the hill towards the railway, the bridge over the railway, then we were further on, and there's me mother walking up, so we had a sort of tearful reunion. And then she turned round and I went back home with her, had a meal, and made a cup of tea, no tea in it, just hot water and milk (chuckles). But then she says, 'well, what you going to do?' I says, 'I staying here for a while. If they want me they can come and find me'. So I had a week, and then I thought, 'oh, I'd better go and do something, like'. So I went to the RAF office and told them who I was, and what squadron, and they said, 'oh, right, then you want a rail warrant to Lincoln.' And he gave me one, and I got the train to Lincoln, well, actually, it was to a little, a little railway station near where we were, near Skegness it was. And I got the train there, walked up the road to the aerodrome, and everybody asked, 'where the hell have you been?' They didn't know I'd been shot down, they just knew I was missing. And when I got to the railway, to the aerodrome I went to see the CO, and I had to tell him the whole story of what had happened. 'Ah well, ' he says, ' everything's for the best'.(chuckles) 'Go back to your billet'. And that was it. So that was me finished. So that was it, I just went back and I was in the Air Force again. Yes it was alright. I never felt wholly at home in the Air Force, but I enjoyed me time there. Definite. Mind you, I was an officer, so I was better off than some ordinary airmen. I was a Flying Officer at the time. So I went back and stayed where I am. Can't remember what happened then.
MJ: Did you fly again?
JC: No, I didn't. Our crew, see, all of us had baled out, well I hope they had. I know the bomb aimer, engineer, navigator all went out the front, then I went out. The wireless operator and the mid upper gunner and the rear gunner went out the back door. So I don't know, really, what happened to them. They'd all baled out, I mean, they had time to bale out. They all has parachutes, but once you bale out of an aircraft you're at the mercy of the winds, You don't know where you're going to land up. So that was it then. I was back home. So when I saw the WAAF, like, she said, 'where's your nearest railway station?' Well, it was Lincoln, but I said York, because I lived in York. And I went home to York, and had a week, well, ten days actually, but anyway I thought I'd better be getting back or I'll be being arrested by military police. So I went back, and went walking up the road to the aerodrome, and the lads that I knew said, 'where the hell have you been?' I says, 'oh, I've been in Germany'. And they gave me a funny look, 'what’s up with him?' Anyway when I got back I went to see the CO, and had to tell him my story, and then he says, 'I would like you, tomorrow, around about eleven 'o' clock, to tell this story to the aircrews. We'll get them all together in one of the hangers, and you can tell them exactly what happened'. So I had to hurriedly write a few notes down, amd bits and pieces, and then the following day I gave my talk, and everybody gave me a big clap at the end of it, so I thought, 'well, that's alright, I haven't done too bad'. (chuckles) And then I just went back to the squadron. It was very good, I enjoyed it. (noises off)(unclear) back on leave from Paris. It was good really because, I mean there was nothing for English troops in Paris. They all wanted to get home, and I was on Lancasters and we took about ten in a Lancaster. Because I had to have the engineer and the wireless operator of me own crew. Where the two gunners had been, and the bomb aimer, they were taken up by troops coming home on leave, all their places, and a few down the corridor, the corridor down the middle of the Lancaster, Used to take about eight, eight troops back to Croyden, from Paris, on leave, going on leave, they were. It was quite fun, I enjoyed it , because there was no danger. We just took off from Croyden, sailed over to Paris, dropped them off, then came back again. Brought some back if they'd finished their leave.
MJ: What was the atmosphere in Paris then?
JC: It was quite alright, by then it was, yeah. The Germans had all been moved out, and it was, it was the end of the war, you see, because although I was still flying, in the Air Force, there was no bombing missions, or anything like that, it was all just taking troops home on leave and then bringing them back again. Quite pleasant, I mean, I didn't mind (chuckles) it was very good. Was to go back to my squadron, and I thought oh, when the WAAF said, 'what's your nearest railway station?' I said York, where I lived. I lived near York, so I went back to York, to my mother. She was , I met her on the railway bridge, on the way home, she was come over to go into York, so I went home with her, like. She was pleased as punch, you know, to see I was alright, and she made a cup of tea, but when she poured it out it was just hot water, she hadn't put any tea leaves in (laughs) I'll always remember that. She was alright.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command I'd like to thank Flight Officer Jack Cranston for his interview at his home in Southampton on the date of nineteenth of October two thousand and fifteen. Once again, I thank you.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Jack Cranston
Creator
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Mick Jeffery
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-10-19
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Sound
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ACranstonJ151019, PCranstonJ1501
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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eng
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Royal Air Force
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00:30:50 audio recording
Description
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Jack joined the Royal Air Force in Leeds. After going to St. John’s Wood in London, he trained in Rhodesia where he passed out as a pilot. His training was on Tiger Moths and Oxfords before he was posted to a Wellington RAF station. Jack went on to fly Stirlings and was posted to a squadron of Lancasters. After 249 Squadron, he joined 207 Squadron.
Jack carried out 22 operations before his plane was shot down towards the end of the war. They baled out and Jack was captured. He escaped with an American private. They were rescued by some Americans and taken to Paris. He eventually returned to his squadron. Jack flew some troops to and from Paris from Croydon but carried out no further operations.
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Great Britain
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
England--London
France
France--Paris
Zimbabwe
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
207 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
escaping
Lancaster
Oxford
pilot
shot down
Stirling
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/501/8392/PCurnockRM1602.2.jpg
643656b7e6ec193f16a6c4727abb34ce
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/501/8392/ACurnockRM160418.2.mp3
b80f69b98b79e3838478986eed3fab73
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Curnock, Richard
Richard Murdock Curnock
R M Curnock
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Curnock, RM
Date
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2016-04-18
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
92 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Richard Curnock (1924, 1915605 Royal Air Force), his log book, letters, photographs and prisoner of war magazines. He flew operations with 425 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Richard Curnock and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GR. This is Gary Rushbrook for the International Bomber Command Centre, Bomber Command Association. I am with Warrant Officer Richard Curnock, 425 Squadron and we are at Dicks’ home near Leicester in a village called Syston on the 18th of April 2016. Dick, just tell me a little about yourself, I know we are in Leicester, were you born in Leicester?
RC. No, I was born in Grantham [inaudible].
GR. So born in Grantham. Brothers, sisters?
RC. Three brothers I had Sam, Bob and myself, all three of us, well they went to higher school I went to elementary school myself and when the war came we all joined up together, well two joined up together in sequence with our age.
GR. Were you the youngest, oldest?
RC. Yes. I’m the youngest, and there was four years between us and Sam was the oldest and unfortunately he got killed and he went.
GR. Did you all join the RAF?
RC. He joined the RAF first and he passed out on, well he went over to Canada on training. I have got cousins and all sorts over in Canada. He had a great time over there and so when he came back he was in the [sic], where did he go into first. Oh I think he was in some training unit, but the next thing we knew he’d been seconded to the British Overseas Airways which is a civil airline and he was flying [inaudible] Whitley aircraft which is one of the worst things in the world. The Air Force sold fifteen of them, I think it was, to British Overseas Airways ‘cos they wanted to start a line up taking spare parts and that down to Gibraltar then onto the Middle East and he was, he was the pilot for one of these aircraft, fifteen of them sold to the Air Force.
GR. Had he, obviously we are going to talk about yourself in a bit, had he already done a tour with Bomber Command or anything?
RC. No he was straight over from training into BOAC and he got doing trips down to Gibraltar but on the fourth trip I think it was, he went on down [inaudible] there they had some aircraft, they wouldn’t fly properly. One time it was tail heavy, next time it was nose heavy, there was always something wrong with it and told him to have it [inaudible] from BOAC and give it some repairs on the tail unit and so they did that, gave him the parts to sort it out, so they thought would sort it out and they took off from Gibraltar and they went flying over the sea there, the bay, and all of a sudden it just dived into the sea. That was in 1943 [voice fades away].
GR. Just dived into the sea.
RC. No reason at all [inaudible]. That was in 1943.
GR. Was you in the Air Force by then?
RC. No I was at home then.
GR. Well we will backtrack a bit, so your elder brother did obviously volunteer for the RAF, middle brother?
RC. He volunteered as well.
GR. For the RAF?
RC. For the RAF yeah. He was accepted in the normal training and he finished up in Canada as well and he came back and he was on training Airspeed Oxfords. This is where I first met him, I didn’t know he was anywhere near me. We’d been up in Dalcross and saw him and I was on a gunnery course up there, air gunnery and flying in those things, Ansons.
GR. Ansons. Looking at a model of an Anson, looking at a lot of models actually but yes, the Anson training aircraft.
RC. Little did I know but he was on flying Airspeed Oxfords on night, night vision courses, sorry for night vision and I happened to be walking out one night with the lads. In front of me was some other airmen and I thought I know that walk [laugh] no it can’t be, it was, it was my brother, I didn’t know he was there. The last I knew he was in Canada. He’d come back [inaudible] in the Mediterranean doing, he was doing a bit of training up there, doing night flying. So we had three weeks together up there and he got posted away somewhere and he posted out of the Air Force I didn’t know what happened to him. But for some reason he was post, transferred from the Air Force into the Royal Signals but why he was taken I have no idea.
GR. And he doesn’t know.
RC. He wouldn’t know now because he is dead now.
GR. Yes, yes.
RC. He was supposed to be on a night vision flying course but I never knew, the next thing I knew was that [inaudible] he was a year later he was, it was over a year later he was in [inaudible] sorry.
GR. No, no, no, it’s absolutely fine.
RC. He got transferred to the Royal Signals then went over to D-Day over on the continent for the rest of the war.
GR. So the younger brother, yourself when did you join up, you obviously volunteered?
RC. That’s me, volunteered in 19 [Pause].
GR. Well am just looking through the memoirs and I can see a photograph of you in uniform in 1941 is that the three of you. You must have joined up in about 1941.
RC. Yeah oh I was in the ATC for ages, about four years and then the [pause].
GR. You obviously followed your two brothers.
RC. Yes I followed them and [pause]
GR. Where did you do your training?
RC. We went to start, first of all down in London and went to a oh a big hotel somewhere.
GR. Would that be St Johns’ Wood, Lords Cricket Ground?
RC. Lords Cricket Ground and we were stationed down there [inaudible] for lessons and that, marching, used to march like mad up the streets of London and my feet have worn out [laugh]. We got quite a lot of that down there for a few inoculations and that when we first went there and boy they were stiff.
GR. Yes your arms were too many, too many injections.
RC. Every time you moved your arms ,oh, ah, somebody hit you, oh, oh. Anyway we got over it and from there I went onto Bridlington, Bridgnorth for a start for training as as air gunner and from Brignorth we went up to Bridlington and we did a lot of work on the Aldis lamp, signalling. We were sending on the beach to somebody up on the pier, letters and figures, and reading this back and we were there for, oh, probably there, how long I was there, I can’t remember. From Bridlington where did we go after Bridlington, oh, to Scotland.
GR. Dalcross.
RC. Dalcross and at Dalcross we were flying Ansons.
GR. I think from Dalcross you moved onto Wellsbourne?
RC. That’s right that was the Conversion Unit and I went on to Wellingtons.
GR. Is that where you met your crew?
RC. That’s where we met crew first one that I met was those three there, the bottom three.
GR. Right I am looking at a photograph and those three gentlemen are?
RC. Bob Friskey, Eugene Fulham and the Skipper Chuck John were the three I met there and [inaudible] next one up.
GR. I think the other member of the crew was Gordon Dimswell.
RC. Oh Gordon that’s right, he was the bomb aimer.
GR. He was the bomb aimer.
RC. Yes that was the crew of the Wellington [inaudible]
GR. Which was the Wellington.
RC. Yeah we flew from Rosebourne in Yeadon.
GR. And then I presume you would have moved onto Heavy Conversion Unit where you would have picked up two other crew members.
RC. That’s right we picked up Gene
GR. Gene Fulham
RC. No
GR. Ginger Wheadon.
RC. Ginger yeah, Ginger was the [interrupted]
GR. And Wes Carrick, you normally picked up a flight engineer and another air gunner.
RC. Yes a flight engineer.
GR. Just looking at another photograph, yeah.
RC. And the other one was, eh.
GR. Another air gunner.
RC. Another air gunner [inaudible].
GR. That’s Wes Carrick.
RC. Yes.
GR. Just looking at a reunion photo with Wes on.
RC. [inaudible] we picked him up and then we went to a Conversion Unit.
GR. Then you spent about four to six weeks at a Heavy Conversion Unit getting used to flying four engined.
RC. [Dick speaking quietly in the background under Gary]
GR. What aircraft were you flying at the Heavy Conversion Unit.
RC. Halifaxes.
GR. I know some people used Stirling’s, you went straight onto Halifax.
RC. [inaudible] Halifax three.
GR. Halifax III’s yeah, what did you think of the Halifax?
RC. Fantastic, yeah it was a good aircraft [inaudible] yeah chucked about a bit being the rear gunner, skipper was good at landing most times, sometimes I was bounced, head to toe, boom, boom, boom, boom.
GR. This was during the Heavy Conversion Unit, and when did you find out what squadron you would be going to?
RC. I think we moved on from there, [inaudible] Conversion Unit then onto the squadron and eh.
GR. That’s 425
RC. That’s 425 Squadron yes and.
GR. Was that French or Canadian?
RC. French Canadian
GR. French Canadian squadron.
RC. Yes French Canadian squadron on eh
GR. I think they flew from Tolthorpe and then Dishforth wasn’t it.
RC. No Dishforth first Tolthorpe second, yes it was only our second trip was in fact. Did one trip and got half way there and turned around engine failure.
GR. That was your first trip?
RC. First trip, engine failure, I think we only did about three or four hours in the air and had to turn back, over France, had a port engine failure.
GR. How did the crew feel about that, you know, your first operation, was it daylight or night time?
RC. Night time.
GR. Night time.
RC. Yeah well you just worked it out, starting on our first trip this sort of thing happens and of course we had [interrupted] to turn around.
GR. And that’s the pilots decision to, eh.
RC. Yes, turn about, drop the bombs in the sea and come back home. Our next trip was, where was that.
GR. Your first mission was the 24th/ 25th.
RC. Yeah that’s right.
GR. Then according to your records you flew the following night.
RC. We did yeah.
GR. Augsburg.
RC. Augsburg yes.
GR. What happened then?
RC. We didn’t get there [laughs].
GR. So after your first trip which was aborted, your second trip.
RC. We got within I think we were about eighty odd miles away from where we were going, which was down at Augsburg. I think we were probably an hours flying from the target. The skipper said he could see the target, I couldn’t in the back, but they could see the target and everything. Target so and so, so and so the next thing I knew ‘Woom’ the anti aircraft.
GR. Anti aircraft fire.
RC. Anti aircraft fire hit the port wing in between the two engines the right place and set them both on fire and so I was in [inaudible] nothing but flames coming past my turret and it eh.
GR. And I can’t presume to think how you felt.
RC. You can’t no. Eh it was such a bang, just like dustbins, bang and so the skipper came on and said we have been hit, I think we will have to abort [inaudible]. I think we all said ‘do you want us to bale out?’ We all said our names, we got the message [inaudible]. The mid upper gunner and myself got out the back end [inaudible] he came down [inaudible].
GR. When you say the back end was that out through the rear turret.
RC. No I didn’t go out through the.
GR. There was a door, wasn’t there?
RC. Yeah, on the right hand side and so the mid upper and myself went out from the rear part. But the thing was we said ‘all right Skipper we are going now, happy landings’ or some stupid thing and as I was getting out of the turret the parachute was in the fuselage anyway [inaudible] so put that on and I said ‘remember what you got to do.’ ‘Cause you have all sorts of things plugged in there, you got to take these things out. So I thought alright, I was getting the things on before I took me helmet off, took everything else off before I put my helmet back on again, it’s going to be cold out there. And the sort of things that went through your mind you know so I spoke to Wes who came down and shook hands and said ‘see you later’ the stupid things you did so we both went out the back, there were flames dashing by us. And I went out, I think I, yes, I went out first, he said you [inaudible] and went out in front and he followed me behind and the things you think of when you are floating down. The first thing was count to ten before you pull your rip cord, then I felt my parachute was clipped on, I thought [inaudible] floating down I thought one, two, oh bugger it [laugh] and I pulled it [inaudible]. Floating down, do nothing [inaudible] coming down, no idea where we were, there were towns and everything but apparently we were coming down over a town. Of course towns have got buildings and when I started coming down I thought what am I going to come down on [inaudible]. Things coming up I thought ‘God, I am going to land on a Church’ and then I thought they are trees and I landed in between two big poplar trees. There was a little tree down below and apple tree, I shot through this apple tree.
GR. You went into the apple tree which was lower down.
RC. It was lower down and I frightened the squirrels a bit [laugh]. Anyway [inaudible] this could take time. I sat there and thought, oh, there is an air raid siren going. Oh [inaudible] taking my outer clothing of, get me flying suit, it was definitely colder, as it was winter time oh I tried, I climbed over the wall in the garden onto the road, I thought, how am I going to get out of this place? I walked round to see where I am, [inaudible] every time I walked out to go somewhere there was an all clear, so they had two, two all clears in [inaudible]. So one of those is gone, saw me walking round and I heard the siren go again so I thought quick turn around, I thought I had better get back into the place [inaudible] So I went back into the garden. I went in, put my flying clothes back on and went to sleep. Thought the best thing I could do. I couldn’t see myself going to walk out through a town with flying clothes, wouldn’t have got very far and, eh.
GR. And did the thought, because by 1944 obviously the German civilian population didn’t take kindly to Bomber Command going over.
RC. They didn’t.
GR. And we have heard some stories.
RC. Well I could tell you when we were taken from the police station.
GR. So what happened to you in the morning, was you?
RC. In the morning, sorry, I was still asleep and there was a squirrel came over me, that woke me up and two old ladies walked out of the house next door to me.
GR. Saw you.
RC. Well they saw the parachute stuck up the tree [inaudible]. I thought I will get somebody round in a minute. Anyway I waited a minute and a policeman came round. He was shorter than me, I have never seen anything like it, he’d got a hat, black, it was a big black helmet, nearly as big as he was. I nearly laughed my head off but thought I had better not, so anyway he told me to take my flying suit off, so I took those off and he had a bicycle there and made me put the stuff on the bicycle and we rode to the police station and he had a gun pointed at me [inaudible]. Took me round the police station and from there they, what did he do? He took us round to the Gestapo headquarters and, eh.
GR. When you said they had.
RC. The police had contacted the Air Force.
GR. Was you on your own or were there any more of your crew.
RC. I was on my own then but they picked up the mid upper gunner and the bomb aimer, three of us and they took us back to the Gestapo Headquarters but on the way down they decided they would take us in a tram. Of course there are Civilians in a tram [inaudible] I didn’t know whether we were going to get out of there after that because on the lamp posts on the way bodies were hung up. American airmen.
GR. American airmen were hanging from the lamp posts.
RC. Yeah hanging from the lamp posts which didn’t go down very well with us and we got lots of black looks from people around about us and we had to get off it. So then to Gestapo headquarters, I got all my flying kit on over me arms and that and the wireless operator, he done a stupid thing he landed in a tree and instead of finding a way to get down from the tree he decided to release himself, ‘woom’ dropped how [inaudible] fractured his spine. So we gets in this Gestapo headquarters and he was there and he said his back hurts and that. And this Gestapo chap comes in from the other room, picked up a chair and went to hit him with it. So it just happened I had got my clothes over my arm, my flying clothes, I put it up and stopped him hitting him, he was bashing him on the head with a chair. So anyway from then on I think we stayed one night in three cells and then they took us, we had three nights in a room, single room, as big as this. You was put in there and kept in there, I think it was for three nights they kept us in this room and kept coming in asking questions, switching the light off, keeping you in the dark and that went on for about three days.
GR. You yourself were physically?
RC. Oh no and then they took us in and put us all together in the interrogation. Taken in one at a time, the officer in the room first thing he said to me ‘did you like flying your Halifax’. ‘Yes it was very nice’. Oh dear, so he was going on about this and he said ‘let’s see, Canadian’, ‘no, not Canadian’, [inaudible] ‘no, French Canadian’. He didn’t like that much. [inaudible] This commander, commander so and so, could be. We know his daughter and he gave us the name of his daughter. He said ‘didn’t you go out with his daughter?’ I said ‘no, not me’ [laugh]. Yeah, that sort of thing, he didn’t say much about the Aircraft. He got sheets and sheets of stuff on the Halifax [inaudible]. And from there they took us to, where did they take us to, they took us to interrogation centre.
GR. Was that Dulagluft.
RC. Dulagluft from there [inaudible] what was going to happen from there on [inaudible]. We had the Americans [inaudible] I can’t think.
GR. A bag, looked like a suitcase. Little suitcase to put all your.
RC. Which had everything from a pipe.
GR. Did you get any Red Cross parcels then, I know you got them later?
RC. Yeah did later but for a start [inaudible] anyway we, we got this parcel with all the bits in it, beautiful shirts, underwear, ties, cigarettes, tobacco, pipes
GR. Everything you could.
RC. Everything you wanted.
GR. Just backtracking, did all the crew get out?
RC. Yes we all got out.
GR. You all got out.
RC. [inaudible] The wireless operator, he finished up in hospital but the rest of us finished up in the same camp.
GR. So you all got out of the aircraft.
RC Yeah we all got out all right yeah.
GR. So you were at Dulagluft feeling a bit sorry for yourselves.
RC. Yes we all were, anyway we weren’t treated too bad you know. They decided they had to move us out of the camp somewhere and I think from there we went to [interrupted].
GR. You ended up at Stalagluft VI Hydegrug.
RC. Hydekrug which was up in, eh.
GR. Lithuania.
RC. Lithuania which was miles away from where we were shot down or the interrogation centre [interrupted]
GR. What did you think of the Prisoner of War camp?
RC. Well it took us about seven or eight days in cattle trucks to get there for a start. That was a strain for a start, especially if you wanted to go to the toilet and where do you go to the toilet in a, in a cattle truck? Which is, the cattle truck is divided into three portions, one end aircrew, other end aircrew ,the German guards in the middle. If you wanted a wee or anything we made a hole in the corner of the carriage it was all you could do and that was seven days, you thought you would never get off that train. It wasn’t our last trip, oh dear our longest and from then on we [inaudible] to Poland we started off, I think we.
GR. You will have been in the prison camp about nine months.
RC. We had been there in the war, yeah.
GR. And then what was well known as the long march, that is when they started moving all the prisoners from the East to the West because the Russians were advancing.
RC. Well we were [interrupted].
GR. What was life like in the camp, you were there nine months?
RC. It wasn’t too bad in the camps, but it was a well used camp so people who were in there got used to it, to life in there. I wasn’t too bad, we used to get, we had the parties and people doing stage, eh/
GR. Shows.
RC. And that sort of thing.
GR. And did you get your Red Cross food parcels through alright or did they start to dwindle off.
RC. Dwindled off. They were not too bad for a start and then they went sour on us, they brought one food parcel between fourteen men which wasn’t very much and it was a job for anybody that was in charge of the of the camp, the rations.
GR. To determine what you got.
RC. Ah, how many men to a parcel, you get about seven or eight men to a parcel, some were to ten to one parcel.
GR. And was you a smoker or did you use your cigarettes as currency.
RC. We used them for both. I had a pipe, I used to fill my pipe up and light it up, couple of puffs on it, somebody would come [inaudible] have a puff [inaudible] seven or eight men queuing up for it [inaudible] just before, it wasn’t long [slightly mumbled]
GR. How many of the crew ended up on the same camp?
RC. Six of us.
GR. Oh right so you all ended up in the same camp.
RC. Yeah two, me and the engineer we were in the same room and four Canadians were in another one. Yeah but we [inaudible] the easiest way because the Canadians went with the Canadians and we went with the English. And the room I was in was called D9 and it was for general use. The people that read the news, the news readers and the chap who took the news off the radio, were in our room and the camp Commandant, no all the people who had jobs in the camp were in that room, yeah.
GR. Did you have any specific job or eh?
RC. No, no I was just general dogs body [laugh].
GR. And then round about Christmas 1944 or very early ‘45 they moved you out the camps didn’t they?
RC. Yep and [inaudible]
GR. And obviously it was known as the long march because I know some of the men were literally on the road for four to five months, how long?
RC. I was about three weeks.
GR. About three weeks yeah.
RC. That was long enough.
RC. But, eh.
GR. Then I think you all ended up in a place called Fallingbostel.
RC. Fallingbostel yes.
GR. Which was like a transit prisoner of war camp, wasn’t it.
RC. There were Americans there as well, a unit of the Americans. Then from that place they shipped us out in April I think it was. They said you have got to go for a walk now. We said ‘all right do we need anything?’ [inaudible] the more people took with them [inaudible]. The Canadians apparently were the worst, their folks used to send them over ski, skates and all sorts of things, and places to skate in [inaudible].
GR. We are just looking through a very famous book called ‘Handle With Care’ which is what a prisoner did of all the different cartoons and drawings. And is there a picture here of the Canadians going out.
RC. A few cartoons.
GR. Yes, because you all had your own little log book that all your colleagues did drawings in, yeah.
RC. That’s another book.
GR. That’s another book, yeah. So when you started off on the march had the weather deteriorated or was it?
RC. April time.
GR. Not too bad then?
RC. Not too bad.
GR. Not too bad, and did you know the War was coming to an end.
RC. Well we knew more or less everybody was being pushed back [inaudible] It shouldn’t be too long, we just wondered how long, but I forget [inaudible]
GR. I will go back to the other one.
RC. Yeah, We crossed over the River Elbe and that [inaudible] a lone Spitfire cruising round this bridge, and machine gunners, New Zealanders on each end, trying to shoot at it [inaudible] we could watch it from where we were we were sitting , by the bridge, we could watch this aircraft, it was one of the single aircraft around. The machine guns belting away at it like hell, four machine guns belting away like hell, they didn’t get near it [inaudible] plastic eyes [laugh].
GR. And obviously you didn’t want the attention from the Spitfire because you didn’t want it to come down.
RC. No.
GR. No. So you are on the March, I must admit I am just looking through your memoirs and you have highlighted the 19th of April. Was that when you were attacked by the Typhoons?
RC. That’s when we got hit by the Typhoons, yeah, yeah.
GR. Which I know was obviously an incident that has been well documented.
RC. It has, yes.
GR. Can you just tell me a little about what happened that day?
RC. We had just gone through or been dished out with Red Cross parcels, we got initially Red Cross parcels and we had come through the main forest and we had come out where it was a bit clearer and we saw these aircraft flying away from us. I thought, oh they are probably some of ours and didn’t think any more about it. The next thing we know the four Typhoons came belting [inaudible] firing like mad. I flung, well flung myself on the floor, I was in a ditch, if you could call it a ditch. It would probably be a bit wider than this room and it would probably be about that deep.
GR. Dick is saying about twelve inches deep, so not very deep at all.
RC. I had been in this ditch [inaudible] I thought was a tree or something, it should have been a tree but it wasn’t, it must have been weed and it was about fourteen inches high [inaudible]
GR. You were trying to hide behind it.
RC. Didn’t do any good. The chap next to me, he got one through his shoulder, a bullet and the chap that was behind me in his heel, took it in his heel.
GR. So both men next to you were wounded. So not a very nice experience and they obviously didn’t know they mistook you for German soldiers or a column moving up so.
JC. And apparently one of the, what you may call it, never flew again.
GR. I bel, I believe the actual squadron leader who was the, once he found out what had happened he, he, he couldn’t live with it so.
JC. That’s right.
GR. I am just looking in your memoirs and Gordon Wheadon, Ginger, was he killed?
JC. He was our engineer.
GR. So your actual engineer was one of the ones killed.
JC. Yeah he was, he was behind me, I never knew he was in the column behind me somewhere, he must have run out across this field and got killed by bullets. I had to go and find him, I couldn’t find him anywhere [inaudible]
GR. And I think, again, there was about thirty five POWs killed that day and six German guards.
JC. Yeah.
GR. So obviously you carried on, tell me about the end of the war, how did the war finish for you?
JC. Eh well I finished in a very nice place [inaudible] when I came back from Germany.
GR. Sorry, so you are on the long march, you are marching and marching and marching, no, no my fault, did you walk into Americans or did you walk into a British Column or?
JC. We were we’d been marching [inaudible] to a little village and we stopped the night there and we woke up in the morning there were no guards about. I thought that’s funny there is no guards about, and then we looked out and said ‘there are no guards anywhere’ and then a lone American, was it American, I think he was American on a motorbike came along oh [inaudible] Oh he said ‘you are free now’, we said ‘you what.’ Then there was all hell bent trying to find transport to take us back to Luneburg which was about twenty, thirty miles away and some of our boys disappeared and came back. When they came back they brought a bus, a fire engine, horses, motor bikes, anything that was on wheels, anything we commandeered and so we then we had to make our way back down to Luneburg and the roads were in terrible condition or [inaudible] There was hardly room for one vehicle to go through but we just kept going and came down to the River Elbe, over the Elbe pontoon bridge and can’t think of the name of the place.
GR. So at Luneburg were you then flown home or.
JC. Yeah we stayed there, I think, for one night or two nights in Luneburg while they took our particulars down and then we got to, I forgot the sort of aircraft, there were Halifaxes and Lancasters.
GR. What did you fly back in?
JC. I flew back in a Lancaster.
GR. So you flew out over Germany in a Halifax and came back in a Lancaster [laugh]
JC. Yeah and treated [inaudible] when we got back on the airfield WAAFs and airmen everywhere, greeting, not that we wanted anything straight away [inaudible] [laugh].
GR. And I think by the end of the war there was something like ten and a half thousand RAF Bomber Command veterans exactly like yourself being flown back home.
GR. Did you stay in the RAF long or were you demobbed.
RC. I still had about ten months to go and I went to, I went to see a squadron leader, he said [inaudible] I said ‘yeah, I fancy a ground job now’, ‘oh’ he said ‘there is plenty of ground jobs. First three, pigeon keeper, clerk, what was the other one, there was three of them [inaudible] ‘five or six months to do, I don’t want to do that’. He said ‘what do you want to do?’, I said ‘well the best thing I can do is be a driver’. ‘Ha, everybody wants to be a driver’ so I said ‘ I tell you what put me down for MT driver or nothing’. It didn’t take long for the MT course to come through, I started me holidays initially. The first place I went to, oh I had a, I think I had a month or two months at an MTU, Maintenance Unit, we used to go round various airfields dismantling Spitfires. I was the driver and I had six mechanics came round with me and a corporal, we dismantled aircraft, to scrap and empty petrol out of them.
GR. Had a nice time in Italy.
RC. [inaudible] In a camp in tents for a start, when we went over there and it was beautiful weather and that and a job came up. They wanted three vehicles to go down to Southern Italy to pick up an officers’ equipment whose station was closing down and the equipment clearing out from it. Three, three tonners to go down, our MT Officer at the time was an ex aircrew man and so he said to me do you want a job, there’s you and there’s ‘em, there’s I have forgotten what his name was, two of us ex aircrew, he was ex aircrew the MT Officer, really good chap, ex aircrew. The corporal driver and the corporal knew the way down, knew the way down through Italy, stopping at Rome and [inaudible] Naples and all sorts of places, you name it. So we had three, three tonners and we had three guards in the back and went down there and stopped in Naples and everywhere we could on the way down.
GR. Very good.
JC. And the same on the way back, brilliant time, anyway.
GR. I am sure you deserved it after being in the prison camp for so long.
JC. Yeah.
GR. Did you want to stay in or did you have a choice?
JC. No I wanted to get out, Anyway, yes, came back from the trip down Italy and there wasn’t much else to do so they decided to send us home and they did and I got demobbed at the same time.
GR. I think that was early, early 1947.
JC. Yeah.
GR. And that was the war finished. Right so I am going to switch everything off, that was absolutely wonderful.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Richard Curnock
Creator
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Gary Rushbrooke
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-04-18
Format
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00:53:16 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACurnockRM160418, PCurnockRM1602
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Royal Canadian Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Richard Curnock was born in Grantham and joined the Royal Air Force in 1941. He achieved the rank of warrant officer and served in 425 Squadron. Richard tells of how he followed his two older brothers into the services, and his time serving in the Air Training Corp and in the Heavy Conversion Unit. Richard was in a Canadian crew and baled out after his aircraft was hit. He talks about his capture including details of United States Army Air Force aircrew being hanged from lamp posts and interrogation at the hands of the Gestapo. Talks about his time as a prisoner of war in Stalag Luft 6. Richard took also part in the long march, when prisoners were moved west ahead of the Russian advance. Recollects when they were strafed by mistake by Typhoons, being flown back home, and his post war service in Italy dismantling Spitfires.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--London
Germany
Germany--Lüneburg
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Bad Fallingbostel
Lithuania
Lithuania--Šilutė
Italy
425 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bale out
bombing
demobilisation
Dulag Luft
ground personnel
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
lynching
Operation Exodus (1945)
Oxford
prisoner of war
RAF Bridlington
RAF Dishforth
RAF Tholthorpe
Red Cross
sanitation
shot down
Spitfire
Stalag Luft 6
strafing
the long march
training
Typhoon
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/516/8748/PHatchM1501.2.jpg
d8ea507c92b2911874f3a4250ee60fa2
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/516/8748/AHatchM150730.1.mp3
22d3ce0e673b6b1303951b257282fcc8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Hatch, Maurice
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Hatch
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Squadron Leader Maurice Hatch (137372 Royal Air Force). He served with 97 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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MJ: It's on now.
MH: My name is Hatch, Maurice Edward Hatch. My rank in the RAF at the end of the war was a squadron leader. [background noise] I was seventeen when war broke out and I volunteered for air service with the RAF and when I went before the committee who considered these things, I was asked what was my position in civil life and I said that I was an article clerk training to be a chartered accountant, whereupon I was immediately designated potentially as a navigator. I never had the chance as being trained as a pilot. On the whole, I think probably in the long run I didn't regret it. I actually went into the air force in about October of 1941 and after initial period of square bashing in some of the delightful holiday resorts of this country like Torquay, Brighton and Eastbourne I went on my flying training in South Africa. I sailed from Liverpool and I sailed in great luxury in a converted Dutch meat ship, from which the covers over the holds had been removed and down which a rickety wooden staircase had been mounted down which we all came. Then, of course, having the exalted rank lowest form of animal life and ordinary airmen and with a pack on my chest, a steel helmet on the back and the big pack on the on the back and you went down until my steel helmet was touching the back of the man in front until effectively the hold of that meat was a mash of human beings. Having got to the point where you couldn't get another mouse in, they said that was enough. They then tried to sort out the sleeping accommodation which was hammocks from the ceiling, so close together that they were touching and I never did get one. The trip took six and a half weeks, I spent that six and a half weeks sleeping on a straw palliasse under the mess table, and life was hard to say the least of it. We were three days stationary, moored outside Freetown in the hot season which was almost unbearable and we eventually landed in Durban. I won't tell you all the details of the journey because they are sordid in the extreme, suffice to say that I hope I never get nearer to hell than that! For two or three days we were under canvas on Durban racecourse and then we went to East London on the east coast of South Africa, south of Durban. And I was there for almost a year doing my initial navigational training. We were very lucky, myself and two other people with, with whom I'd joined up, we were, if you like, befriended by a family of Scottish origin who lived in East London and the husband was in fact the Union Castle representative in East London, Union Castle being the most powerful body in South Africa at that time, they ran the weekly ship to Cape Town before the war and owned most of the principal hotels including, of course, the famous Mount Nelson in Cape Town. The training period in South Africa from a flying viewpoint was not really particularly noteworthy, what was more noteworthy was the ability to live on fruit and food which we hadn't seen in this country for a long time, and also, not quite so fortunately, the rather strong but extremely cheap South African brandy. I eventually finished the training after about a year and went to Cape Town to board a ship home. In the interim whilst I was there, the husband of the family who had befriended us had been promoted and had become the Union Castle's principal agent [background noise] in Cape Town and was therefore in Cape Town finding a house to which he could move his family. He was staying at the Mount Nelson Hotel and therefore my last night before going home, I went to dinner in the famous Mount Nelson Hotel which was a fairly unforgettable experience, particularly at that time going back as I was to wartime rationing. I was lucky in that on the return I was on an American trooper which was not in convoy and so went very much faster and we we got home in about two and a half weeks, and the only misfortune was that for some administrative reason which I have never understood, the fact that I had been commissioned had not reached South Africa and I therefore went home as a sergeant and regretted the fact that I didn't have the officer's quarters. However, that was rectified when I got home and I went to Harrogate which was the usual place where aircrew were accommodated on their return from Canada, South Africa, Rhodesia, as it then was, and the very few from the United States, where effectively all of this flying training had been carried out. After some leave, I started on the further long process in the training channel which included, of course, the crewing up and we formed into a crew. Strangely enough, that was done largely by us ourselves rather than by any officials. We sort of went around and tried to decide people with whom we thought we might get on and in effect established a crew ourselves, and this we did. I was in fact the only commissioned officer in the crew; all the others were sergeants or flight sergeants. We went through the various stages, going from Wellingtons after a short period, we were onto Stirlings and then eventually onto Lancasters, and my first posting to a squadron, an operating squadron, was to 630 Squadron which was at East Kirby in Lincolnshire, and it was a very sudden and very marked experience of the reality of war after the joy of South Africa, where, frankly, the war seemed a long way away. And we finished up playing tennis and swimming rather than worrying too much about flying. On arrival at 630 Squadron, it was at the time when the raids in Berlin were going on almost nightly, and at that time, and maybe at all times I don't know but certainly at that time, it had become the practise that when a new crew, a sprog crew arrived on the squadron with no experience, the captain of the crew, the pilot, went first as a second dicky with an experienced crew, and we had arrived on the squadron at about ten-thirty in the morning, by mid-afternoon ops had been announced and we subsequently discovered it was on Berlin. My pilot was assigned as a second dicky to an experienced crew and off he went and did not return. He must have had the shortest tour of operations of anybody, one take off and one landing, the landing being by parachute. I'm delighted to say he survived the war and came through but he was of course a prisoner of war in that intermediate period. I was therefore left with the remainder of my crew within twenty-four hours of having arrived on the squadron of going away again with a delightful RAF expressions being the head of a headless crew which always struck me as an oddish [?] phrase. We went back to conversion unit, and this I suppose was one of my lucky periods during my life, I always find it slightly guilty or referring to another man's misfortune as being one of my luckies, but we linked up on our return to conversion unit to an experienced New Zealand pilot. If my memory's right, he was then a flight lieutenant, he had done a tour earlier in the war and had been instructing and had now come back for a second tour and we had no captain, he had no crew, and so the obvious thing was to put us together, and this was very lucky. The strange part about this was that he was a tough, back-woods, New Zealander whose language was frequently fairly colourful, but he had a strangely sentimental streak because his first tour had been on 97 Squadron, he was desperately anxious that this second tour should also be on 97 Squadron. The only problem was that in between the two dates, the Pathfinder Force had been formed and 97 Squadron had become one of the Pathfinder squadrons. Generally speaking, people, in quotes, volunteered to go on the Pathfinder Force, although I think frequently it was a form of volunteering which usually involved the twisting of an arm or two. But it was after seven or eight operations had been successfully completed and the crew had broadly shown itself as being competent. This, of course, was not the case; my New Zealand captain’s name was Smith, and he was always called Smithy by us, and he, of course, was an experienced pilot, but he had a crew who had never done an operation in their lives, and particularly a navigator, i.e. me, who had never been on an operation in his life. Somehow, he succeeded in getting us onto 97 Squadron; how he did it, whose arm he twisted, I have never known, but the fact remains that we did. Accordingly, I started once again by going then for, I think it was four or five weeks’ intensive Pathfinder navigation training at the PFF headquarters, PFF had become 8 Group, and the headquarters were outside Huntingdon, and for the moment I’ve forgotten its name.
MJ: Wyton.
MH: Wyton. And, well, I, I obviously successfully dealt with the specialist training because, at the end of the period, we were appointed, we were posted to 97 Squadron, which had just about turned up at Coningsby, having previously been somewhere else which I’ve moment forgotten, and I suppose the good fortune of that alignment with Smithy very quickly showed itself, because our very first operational trip as a new crew, we were attacked by two ME-109s, and I hate to think what, with an entirely inexperienced pilot and crew, might have happened. As it was, Smithy put us into a power dive and we successfully escaped, and I always remember, as we, nose went down and, of course, everything, the charts, the protractors, the dividers, the pencils, everything went all over the place, and all I remember was Smithy shouting ‘Never mind about the bloody charts, tell me if there are any hills around here!’ I don’t know how he thought I was going to do that, because of course the, the map showing such things as hills had gone with all the rest. However, eventually I did find it and told him that there were no hills, but by then it was too late, because fortunately there was none, and we were on our way home, fairly low, waking up a few French along the way. Well, after that, we had a comparatively inexperienced and exciting time, fortunately, the usual little problems of sometimes getting splattered by shrapnel from bombs exploding around one, but nothing really terrible except, I suppose, we, one, one, one night, a hydraulic pipeline was severed, and it wasn’t quite known whether or not the undercarriage was going to lock down, and so we were diverted to the diversionary airport at Manston in Kent, which, strangely enough, was a place to which I became quite attached and very accustomed later after the war. Smith finished his tour, his second tour, after twenty ops, and we were still there. The usual arrangement in the Pathfinder Force was that, instead of doing the normal stint of thirty ops in a first tour, then a period off and twenty on a second tour, one was encouraged to do forty-five ops through immediately, one, ah, all in one go, on Pathfinder Force, presumably because of the additional training and experience which one had gained in Pathfinder operations. I had by then become reasonably accustomed to my duties with H2S as it was then, the early form of radar, I suppose the predecessor of many of the systems with which we are accustomed now in our motorcars or boats or anything like that. By today’s standards, it was fairly primitive, but on the whole, it worked, and I effectively did forty-four operations, finishing my forty-fourth just about at the end of the war, and I think I’m right in saying that I failed to find the target first time only once in those forty-four operations. Again, we had one or two bits of excitement; by then, I was flying with the squadron commander because, when Smithy had finished his second tour, once again, we found ourselves as a crew without a pilot, and the squadron commander had just completed a tour and had gone, and he, his successor, a group captain, Group Captain Peter Johnson, the Pathfinder Force generally had ranks which were one up from the general Bomber Command so that, whereas most bomber squadrons were commanded by wing commander, Pathfinder squadrons generally commanded by a group captain, the flight commanders were wing commanders whereas usually they were squadron leaders, and leaders (wireless, navigation, gunnery and so on) were usually squadron leaders instead of flight lieutenants. And, of course, with the passage of time and people finishing their tours and, sadly, finishing their tours in other ways, meant that promotion was fairly quick and eventually found myself as a squadron leader, acting squadron leader, anyway. And I suppose at the age of twenty-three, briefing Pathfinder squadrons, it was good experience which has stood one good in civil life after the war. Only one thing, well, I suppose two things, really, stick in my mind: one is that we were coming back one evening from very long flight, somewhere way over in, I, Stet – somewhere in Poland, we’d been airborne for about nine hours and were running really rather short of fuel, and it was foggy, good old Lincolnshire fog, and we couldn’t get in at Coningsby. At Metheringham, which was close by, there had been installed a system which was called FIDO, which took the form of a, a channel being put alongside the runway and filled with aircraft spirit of some sort, and which I, in foggy conditions, it was lit, the idea being that the heat generated would disperse the fog. Unfortunately, the people who did it forgot the fact that the, the fire itself would have created more smoke, and we had problems. We went ‘round twice and couldn’t find the, the, the ‘drome, the –
MJ: Flare path?
MH: [background noises] I was saying that my captain had considerable experience in finding the flight path, we went ‘round twice and by then the fuel was running dangerously slow, ah, short, and fortunately, we turned on a third time and both the pilot and the flight engineer, more or less at the same time, just got a glimpsed, glimpse of the flight path and Peter Johnson very cleverly (not easy on a Lancaster) effectively side-slipped onto the air, airfield. We had a very bumpy landing but at any rate, we did get down in one piece. We subsequently discovered that part of the difficulty was not only the smoke created by FIDO itself but the plane that had come in immediately before us, or had tried to come in, had failed and had crashed right through the woodland alongside the, the aerodrome and all members of the crew were killed. So that was not a – it wasn’t the best of evenings when we got back in, in the mess that evening. My, my skipper, my pilot, Group Captain Peter Johnson, with typical sort of British stiff upper lip, when I think one member of my crew said to him as we were getting out, ‘Well, that was a bit dicey,’ and he said [blustering received-pronunciation] ‘Oh, it was alright, you know,’ and, but in fact, subsequently back in the mess, he did tell me, tell me that he was pretty worried and that, had we not seen the runway on that particular moment, he was seriously considering turning out to sea and trying to land in the shallows of the sea, so I’m, I’m glad the smoke cleared enough for us to get by. Apart from that, there were very few moments of great excitement. One memorable moment, not really a moment of excitement is that, in the Pathfinder operations, the Lancasters, the Lancaster Pathfinders were equipped with RT and WT; the main force was equipped only with WT. The master bombers, who were in Mosquitoes, they had only RT, and they were people like Cheshire and Tate and Gibson and names such as that, and on this particular night, we – one of the Lancaster Pathfinders was doing the job as link aircraft (this was passing on WT the RT instructions received from the master bomber), and the Pathfinder Lancasters used to take it in turn to be the link aircraft, in effect flying ‘round and ‘round the target passing the messages from the master bomber. Not the most popular of tasks, needless to say, but on this particular night, we were, well, my skipper was, in effect, the, the second string, which was the man who was the link, was very often, or very often at any rate, the senior officer in the Lancasters who was on the raid was the deputy commander, just in case the master bomber had mechanical trouble and had to turn back or had been shot down en route, and we were the, the second string, if you like, and, and we had a message from the master bomber saying that the raid was successful, radio home and go home, and go home we did, only to find out later that the master bomber had not got home, and the master bomber was no less than Guy Gibson. So it’s not exactly a claim to fame, it’s the most inappropriate form of words, but I suppose it is true to say that I and the other six members of the crew were the last seven people to hear Guy Gibson speak. I’ve never really, I don’t think most people have ever really fully satisfied themselves as to what happened to him; various rumours, most of them silly, but I’m, I’ve always been told (I can’t prove this), I’ve always been told that it was a complete wreck, the aircraft was on fire and everything was burned, and that the only recognition was that a sock was found with a laundry mark on it and this was Gibson’s. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know, but that was the story I’d always been told. So, that more or less finished my flying career. I, I went on a couple of daylight raids which I didn’t much enjoy; somehow, I didn’t think the Lancaster was, was fitted for formation flying as were the Americans. And I, I don’t, I don’t think they were terribly successful and they weren’t particularly enjoyable. At the, the days immediately on the end of the war, most of us were, to some extent, occupied in bringing back prisoners of war from airfields in Belgium and Holland, poor devils had been up to several years in prisoner of war camps and had been brought out to the coast and were being picked up. Two things remind me of that always: my good skipper, the group captain, who I may say was a first class man (he finished the war DSO, DFC, AFC and thoroughly deserved it all), we didn’t see each other after the war for almost forty years, and then by pure accident, I was, I’d been a member of the MCC for a great many years, and was one night at home looking through the annual accounts of the MCC, and there was a list of people who had been members of the MCC for fifty years and who were now called life members and no longer had a subscription to pay, and about the third in the list was Group Captain P.W. Johnson, DSO, DFC, AFC, and I said to my wife, ‘Well, there can only be one member like that!’ And at that time, my firm, I was of course by then a, a qualified chartered accountant and a partner in my firm, and we were then acting auditors of the MCC, so I said to my partner, who dealt with the MCC problems, would he let me know next time he went to Lords [?] for anything, would he go into the office and see if he could find the address of Group Captain Johnson, which he did, and a week or two later, I found out and got back in touch with Peter Johnson and we thereafter saw each other roughly every six or seven weeks. He was a good deal older, he was fourteen years older than me, and by then he was therefore he was eighty or eighty-ish, and we used to take him out. He was, he was on his own, he’d lost his wife, he was a rather lonely old man in many ways. My wife, I had met during the war, she was a WAF, a Scots girl, and we met, strangely, I think immediate, immediately after the war in Europe finished, because very quickly, the operational squadrons were being disbanded, people were being sent away and all sorts of things. Peter Johnson was sent almost immediately to join a party which was being put together by Bomber Harris to go to Germany and inspect at first hand the damage which Bomber Command had done, and so he left the squadron very quickly, and I didn’t then see anything of him for forty years. I greatly regret it, actually, the loss of that forty years ‘cause he was such a first-class chap, and we had many a happy meeting in the years between our meeting up again and when he, he died. He died in a way which suited him well, because he was then living in an old people’s home not very far from where we live, and so we, we were able to see him fairly frequently. He had always had a, an eye for the girls; it was well known in Coningsby that he had a girlfriend in Newark and another one in Boston, and his son had been married about five times, and I remember him telling me once that, after the fifth marriage, that if he, if he got rid of that wife, Peter Johnson was going to marry her himself ‘cause she was jolly nice, and she had actually come to visit him in the old people’s home. He was still driving, he’d taken her back to the station to catch the train back to where they were living, he parked his car outside the, the place where he was living, he had a long-ish walk into the front door, he collapsed halfway on that walk, and before anybody could really do anything about it, he was dead. So it was a suitable and fitting end, I don’t think he would have regretted it. But that ended, substantially ended, my air force career, because I still had a fairly high demob number and because I was fairly experienced with forty-four ops behind me with Pathfinder Force, I was allocated to a thing called Tiger Force, which some bright spark at the Air Ministry had decided that we should go to assist our brave allies, the Americans, in the Far East, and that we should try to operate the successful Pathfinder technique which had been operated in Europe. I mean, it was a crazy idea ‘cause it was quite impossible doing the thing; it one thing being on a, a pre-war, tarmacadamed airfield with permanent buildings and every sort of electronic communication then available. It was a little different being stuck in Okinawa or somewhere like that. However, that was, I was to be so-called wing navigation officer and was actually on leave when the Japanese war ended, and so I phoned the Air Ministry and said, ‘Well, you don’t really, seriously mean to go ahead with this, do you?’ And there was a bit of umming and ahing at the other end, but I did eventually – I was told that they would be in touch with me and a couple of days later, there was a telephone call to say that the thing was off but I was to report back to Coningsby, and I spent the rest of my time as station navigation officer at Coningsby, and I left the, the squadrons left Coningsby about a fortnight before I was demobbed, they’ve were moved to Hemswell in order that the runways at Coningsby could be lengthened for the V Bombers which were then coming on stream. I got in touch and said, ‘Look, I’ve been in Coningsby two and a half years, you’re surely not gonna send me away to Hemswell, I have another fortnight to go,’ so again, there was umming and ahing and said ‘No,’ but I had to stay at Coningsby the other fortnight, they didn’t let me go a fortnight early, but that ended my work, wartime career, if ‘career’ is the right word. Terrible, war’s a terrible thing, awful, awful times one remembers. One remembers times of great strain, times of danger, but equally times when, very often before leaving for a flight, the, the, the whole feeling oneself was flowing, there was a, there was a, a scare, I suppose a scare, a fright; on the other hand, there was a feeling of something quite exciting was going to happen. It was a strange feeling and it was very different when you came back, I think feelings there differed very much from person to person, and I think I’d – probably as good a note to end on, end on as any is that I think that it’s amply demonstrated why the men who did the sculpture in the Bomber Command memorial in Green Park, where he has the sculpture of a crew of Lancasters coming in after the end of an operation, and, whilst my eyesight, I’m afraid, these days is far from good, and I, I really was not able to recognise it, my wife always tells me that the expressions on the face of the seven people were quite remarkable and that the, the sculptor had really done a marvellous job. And it is a marvellous, marvellous memorial; I was lucky to be one of those still alive and able to attend its opening by the Queen, and those of us who were there and who had actually operated during the war were asked to line up at the end along the, effectively, the edge of the Green Park parallel with Piccadilly, and the Prince of Wales and his wife came along and shook hands with all of us individually, one by one. I think he missed his lunch in consequence, but I imagine he didn’t mind. I think that hopefully is, in brief, my story. I hope it may be of use and interest to somebody in the future.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command, I’d like to thank Squadron Leader Hatch, at his home in Croydon, for his recording on the date of the 30th July 2015. I thank you very much. Bye-bye.
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Title
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Interview with Maurice Hatch
Creator
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Mick Jeffery
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-30
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Sound
Identifier
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AHatchM150730
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:38:07 audio recording
Description
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Maurice Hatch was training as a chartered accountant when volunteered for pilot but was instead enlisted as a navigator. After initial training at Torquay, Brighton and Eastbourne he went to South Africa for a year. Upon returning he crewed up at Harrogate followed to a post at RAF East Kirby (630 Squadron) flying Wellingtons, Stirlings and Lancasters, mainly on operations to Berlin. Then he went on a five-week intensive Pathfinder navigation training at 8 Group headquarters, followed by a post with 97 Squadron at RAF Coningsby where he flew 44 operations. After the end of the war in Europe he was sent to the Far East with the Tiger Force as wing navigation officer, but the war ended before he started operational duties. Maurice returned at RAF Coningsby as station navigation officer until demobbed. He then became a qualified chartered accountant and a partner of his firm. Maurice talks about military ethos, prisoner of war, bailing out, operations, anti-aircraft fire, evasive manoeuvres, Guy Gibson, reunions, the Bomber Command memorial in Green Park, meeting the Queen and other dignitaries.
Spatial Coverage
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South Africa
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Devon
England--Sussex
England--Torquay
England--Brighton
England--Harrogate
Germany
Germany--Berlin
England--Eastbourne (East Sussex)
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
630 Squadron
8 Group
97 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bombing
crewing up
demobilisation
Elizabeth II, Queen of Great Britain (1926 - 2022)
FIDO
Gibson, Guy Penrose (1918-1944)
Lancaster
Me 109
memorial
navigator
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
promotion
RAF Coningsby
Stirling
Tiger force
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/176/8779/PFrostB1501.1.jpg
421cb1de4770c3cda2c64d9ccdc2e35c
Dublin Core
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Title
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Frost, Bob
R Frost
Identifier
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Frost, B
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-07
Description
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Four items. Two oral history interviews with Robert Frost (1383682 Royal Air Force), and two photographs. Sergeant Bob frost flew as a rear gunner with 150 Squadron from RAF Snaith. Shot down on an operation to Essen, he was helped by the Resistance and evaded through the Netherlands and France to Spain. The story of his evasion is available in video form.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Bob Frost and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Bob Frost. Two
Description
An account of the resource
Bob Frost flew on a night operation on 16/17 September 1942 as a rear gunner on Wellington BJ877, 150 Squadron, from RAF Snaith. Before reaching the target at Essen, the aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire and the port engine was damaged. He describes how, during the flight home, the aircraft was completely disabled and all the crew bailed out, landing in Belgium. He narrates the experience of being helped by the resistance, from his first encounter with a Flemish family through to Gibraltar, via Kapellen bij Glabbeeck, Tillemont, Brussels, Paris, St Jean De Luz, San Sebastián, and Madrid. He praises the resistance for the support they gave him.
<p>This content is available as embedded video:</p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LWv-48NHlUM?rel=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe></p>
Spatial Coverage
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Belgium
France
Germany
Spain
Belgium--Brussels
France--Saint-Jean-de-Luz
Gibraltar
Germany--Essen
Spain--Madrid
Spain--San Sebastián
France--Paris
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1942-09-16
1942-09-17
Creator
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Heather Hughes
Date
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2015-11-05
Format
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00:17:55 video recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Moving image
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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PFrostB1501
150 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bombing
crash
evading
RAF Snaith
Resistance
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/541/8781/PPeadonAH1605.2.jpg
45f2870eed54e9ee5c5b11c25cf0a675
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/541/8781/AGreenS160622.2.mp3
8fa994928ccf717b9911831fa705c2d4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Peadon, Alec Henry
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Peadon, AH
Description
An account of the resource
21 items. An oral history interview with Sybil Green (b. 1929), photographs and documents. Her Brother, Sergeant Alec Henry Peadon was killed 31 August 1943 when his 78 Squadron Halifax was shot down over Belgium. <br /><br /><span>The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Sybil Green and catalogued</span> by Barry Hunter. <br /><br />Additional information on <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/221937/">Alec Henry Peadon</a> is available via the IBCC Losses Database.
Date
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2016-05-04
2016-06-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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HD: This is Helen Durham on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre on the 22nd of June 2016 and the time is 11.25. I’m here to interview Mrs Sybil Green, who was a child, teenager during the Second World War and lived and grew up in Lincoln. Good morning Sybil. Thank you very much for giving us this interview. First of all could you tell me a bit about Lincoln and what it was like before the war when you were growing up?
SG: Yes, um, nobody had any money much but we did all mix together and I went to an infants school. We lived down Bracebridge. I went to an infants school until I was seven and then went to the older one. But mum used to just put me across the road and I walked on my own and then, as I say, we grew up, and I was about five or six when I was woke up one morning and I ran to into my mum’s bedroom. Mind, and she’d had a baby, a sister, who was Molly and then after that we used to go out to play. We used to go on the common, everywhere, we didn’t have to worry about getting molested or anything and I stayed there, I went to Bracebridge School until I was eleven and then I went up to Central Bank but this was during the war, yes, and we had a shelter at the school and it was under ‒ there was a bridge, we used to call it Bainbridges [?] Bridge and they built a shelter, a brick shelter for us at the school and it was underneath, near a railway. But after that once or twice we had to come out and ‒, but then they started doing school dinners then and we had ‒, ‘cause I still used to walk home, how I did it I don’t know, used to walk, not so much when I had the dinner, before, I used to walk all the way home, which was quite a treck and have my dinner then and I ran all the way back to school again [laughs] and after that I left school when I was fourteen and that’s when I went home one day and they’d had the telegram about Alec and that up-skittled everybody and ‒
HD: Who was Alec?
SG: Alec, that was me brother, yes, he was Alec and he used to tease my mum terrible [laughs]. He used to tie her laces to the back of the chairs. But he was the only one of us [unclear] went to the school, it’s, yes on Monk’s Road, he went to the City School, on Monk’s Road, and he stayed there until he was fifteen or sixteen and he went in an office but he didn’t like being in the office so he used to go and drive the lorry, and then he went in the Air Force. I can’t quite remember how old he was, he might have been nineteen or twenty one, I’m not quite sure what his age was but just before he got killed he’d come home on leave. I went to fetch mum to tell her and that was the last time we saw him. He went back, and he was ‒, I’m not sure where he was stationed, and they went out and this particular navigator, one of them couldn’t go, and he stopped off, and I think they had to bail out over Belgum and they shot him coming down. He ‒, terrible. And that was it, more or less, but mum never never got over it no, no.
HD: What was Alec’s full name?
SG: Alec Henry, yeah, like Henry Peadon, my maiden name, yeah, but no, in them days though, as I says, we had no money but we could go anywhere, not like you know. We used to go on the common and all over the place, yeah. And then later on in the war I think, I can’t remember whether ‒ , ‘cause my dad, we used to live down Lake View then, and he went round to tell a neighbour and as he went round there was some bullets flying about and then they dropped a bomb on Boultham Park, which was ‒, and Westwick Drive. There was quite a few killed and then Highfield Avenue two school girls, they got killed as well.
HD: Can you remember what year?
SG: What was?
HD: What year, these bombs came down?
SG: I didn’t quite hear what you said love.
HD: Can you remember what year the bombs came down?
SG: Um, I’m just trying to think. It would be, let me see, 1929, about ’33, or something like that, yes, the war started in ’39 didn’t it? Yeah, yeah, so I’d be about twelve I should think, about twelve, and then there was quite a few bombs dropped at that time and, as I say, um, bullets and all sorts of things you know, but I think, I told your colleague, one time, the only time I got a clout we went into the park and we lit a bonfire there, [unclear] was doing some potatoes, and that was the only time I got a good hiding ‘cause it was in the war you know and as I say, I can’t remember a great deal, as I say, I know there was restrictions and there again we had no lights or anything on, not like now ,they’re out and all that palaver, there was no lights, where we lived we used to go down Bracebridge, Russell Street, we used to walk down there but we never used to give it a thought.
HD: So how did you feel as a twelve year old and there was all this destruction going on?
SG: Well, I think we didn’t take a lot of notice really, just got on with it, when the sirens went you went into the shelter and just got on with it you know, and all the rationing came in and we couldn’t get certain things and ‒, but I can’t remember a great deal really. I can remember us going out and about but there was a lot of bombing around Lincoln, of course we had a lot of aerodromes around here as well, yeah, not a lot of army. My husband, he went in at the end of the war and there weren’t a lot of ‒ , and there was restricted and when the lights did come on, it was absolutely smashing.
HD: So how did Lincoln change during the war?
SG: Um, well I think people was more ‒, looked after each other, yes, I think, you know, ‘cause my dad had an allotment and if he had spare it was spread about you know, things like that, you know, he just shared everything. There was more of a community than there is now. People used to talk to one another and it was, you know, more friendly, yes, I think now people don’t, are not as open are they?
HD: And did you go to school?
SG: Oh yes, yes, I went to school and I left school when I was fourteen and started work on the Monday [laughs] at the Co-op, selling wallpaper [unclear].
Other: What did you do on your first day? At work?
SG: Well I just ‒, well actually it was when rationing was on and so there wasn’t a lot of wallpaper but they used to, what they called stippling. They used to use distemper or something and then do it with a sponge to make it look pretty.
HD: Right.
SG: And then I worked in the ‒, there was an electric shop across the road and I worked there and we used to ‒, the old wirelesses, we used to have to take the batteries out and have them wound up or something to get the electric to go, no not electric ‒, I can’t remember having electric, later on in the war, I think, I can’t quite remember now when we had electric, but we did move to Lake View Road, we lived on Newark Road and then we went to another one but mum didn’t like it, it wasn’t ‒, so we moved into Lake View and we was there up ‘til me getting married, yeah.
HD: And did you meet any of the RAF personnel?
SG: Oh yes, oh yes, I was getting older like, yes.
HD: Can you describe what it was like in Lincoln?
SG: Oh yes, in the barracks, of course, because after the war me and my husband used to go to these meetings yeah, at the barracks they had all the army on Burton Road there, that was when the soldiers were all over. In fact one of my neighbours next door but one, he’s Polish and he was telling my gardener yesterday he was brought up in a concentration camp and he was telling my gardener, you know, how bad it was, and he come to Lincoln, he stayed in Lincoln, yeah, but we didn’t go without food but we just had the basics, you know. I think we wasn’t used to anything really fancy but there was a little bit of black market [laughs] that went on. We used to get it from various ‘cause my sister probably went out with soldier or two and she came back with some bits and pieces, yes, [laughs] we did. We never went hungry but we only had the basics, yeah.
Other: When you got a clout for the bonfire was that for wasting the potatoes or for the blackout?
SG: It was for lighting the fire, yeah, I did get a clout.
Other: Who chided you for doing that?
SG: Um, my dad did it, dad, mum very rare, occasionally. Even dad didn’t normally. I mean that was an exception. We was a family, a quiet family, there was eight, nine of us, five sisters and three brothers, eight of us, mum lost one between me and the other one, me sister, yeah.
HD: So, going back to the war years, and Lincoln, is there anything special that stands out for you? Any experiences that you can really remember? And how you felt?
SG: Well I think when we ‒, on Boultham Park, we used to go and look at all the craters, and we used to say how lucky we were, because we only lived a few yards from where, you know, they dropped and they did onto Westwick Drive, one or two got killed from Westwick Drive, the bombs dropped. We didn’t get a lot of ‒, not that really, in Lincoln. We did have a lot of Air Force round about, they was all stationed round here. You see Alec, I try to think, Alec was seven years, yeah, seven years older than me, yeah, so as I say when I was fourteen, he was just twenty one, that’s when he went in, yeah, thats when he went in, yeah, Air Force, yeah.
HD: And so did they, can you tell me a little bit about the RAF personnel coming into Lincoln, what happened and where did you meet?
SG: We didn’t used to see many RAF, more soldiers, didn’t see many RAF at all, no, very few really. We had one or two around Lincoln but it was more the barracks and round there we had soldiers, we didn’t have many ‒, there was one or two aerodromes, Skellingthorpe Road, and one or two up Crosscliff Hill, there was one or two up there, yeah, but the Air Force, yeah.
HD: But did you ever see the bombs, bullets or planes?
SG; Oh yes.
HD: Can you tell me about the planes when they used to leave the RAF stations?
SG: No, not really, no, no, I can’t remember much about that no, ‘cause most of the aerodromes was just outside Lincoln but you could hear them when they was coming over ‘cause then the sirens used to go and also we had a lot of people come from Sheffield to Lincoln because it was safer and we had two, two people staying with us and they stayed with me brother across the road. He had one or two and a lot of them, and one of them ‒ , I go to the club, they stayed in Lincoln, they stopped here. They came from Sheffield ‘cause it was a bit safer and they’re still here, one or two of them stayed here.
Other: Do they know the war’s over now?
SG: Mmm?
Other: Do they know the war’s over? [laughs]
HD: So, can you tell me a little bit about when the alarms went off, how did you feel?
SG: Oh yes, well we had one of these what we called Andersen shelters in the living room, you were supposed to go under there and I think we did but not for long, but mum and dad, they’d just started going out when the war started but after that they stopped going out, you know, we was growing up and they just used to go out Saturday night but then of course when the war started we were supposed to under there but if you was at school or anywhere out you used to look for the nearest shelter.
HD: And whereabouts was that nearest shelter? Can you remember?
SG: Well, apart from when I went to school I can’t remember any other, ‘cause I mean, them days at fourteen I didn’t go out anywhere much. It’s, as I say, the nearest one ‒ I think there was one or two round about and there was a lot of ‒, put up specially made, made so you could go under ground and they had some ‒ ‘cause on the common I think they had like ‒, they built under ground on the common, but I can’t remember going there myself, no.
HD: You don’t remember going underneath into the shelter?
SG: No, no, no, really no.
HD: So the one you went into ‒
SG: When I was at the school, yes.
HD: What was it like when you went under, when the siren went off and went ‒ ?
SG: Well, we all had to walk out, we had girls in one section, and the lads in the other, but we used to walk, as I say, we used to laugh about it ‘cause it was next door to the railway line and it was just a brick shelter and we went in there when the war started, yeah, yeah. Then you waited when the sirens went and then you came out again.
HD: Did you do anything while you were waiting? Did you play cards?
SG: I can’t remember, I can’t really, ‘cause ‒, I do [emphasis] remember, yeah, I think we used to carry on with the lessons, the teachers came with us, I’m sure they did, and we had to just carry on with what lessons we was doing.
HD: So at the end of the war what was it like in Lincoln then?
SG: OK. I was about sixteen I think, and went up near Broadgate. There was a lot of NAAFIs and things and everybody was around the [uncear] round there and yeah everyone was quiet but we still didn’t have a lot of money them days and just had to carry on with what we’d got.
Other: When you started work at the Co-op when you was fourteen did the Co-op tell you where the shelter was? Where you worked?
SG: I can’t remember that, Malcolm no, I was, I’m just tryng to think, they probably did. There was one or two when I worked at the Co-op, do you know? I can’t think that far back. I know we did have a lot of shelters but I can’t remember being at work when they went off, I think we just used to ‒, well I can’t remember.
Other: What did your brothers do during the war? Alan and ‒
SG: Oh, Ted, he went abroad. He worked for Foster Quinns and went abroad but Alan, he had what they called flat feet so he had to go ‒ , he was just in the NAAFI and things like that distributing army things yeah, but Ted, he worked for Foster Quinns and he went all over the place, but this was after the war, he went to Italy and one or two places.
HD: Was he in the RAF?
SG: No, he didn’t go in any, no, he just worked for Foster Quinns that made the tanks, he wasn’t in any of the Forces, no, as I say, apart from Alan, he did, Ted didn’t, no. But I think he did war work, that sort of thing, for Foster Quinns that did all the tanks and he did go away to different places.
Other: And it was Alex that joined the RAF?
SG: Yeah, Alec joined the RAF, yeah, yeah.
HD: When your brother was working on the tanks do you know what sort of work he did?
SG: Oh yes, helped to build them I think, yes, he helped to build Foster Quinns. In fact, they put one down somewhere in Rookery Lane, they got a tank, a model of a tank or something, yeah, yeah, Foster Quinns, yeah, he did work there. Well, we all had decent jobs really.
Other: What about your sisters, what did they do in the war, can you remember?
SG: Norah worked for ‒, oh that’s another thing, why we never went out, Norah worked for somebody who had a storehouse for meats and things and she got some things like that, there was a little bit of black market going I think [laughs], at that time yes [laughs], if you could get anything you got it.
Other: What about Joan, what did Joan do in the war?
SG: I think Joan was married I think. Her husband was in the war I think, no, I can’t quite remember Malc what Joan did, yeah, I think she just went to work like all of us did.
Other: Did you listen to the news much during the war?
SG: Oh yes, yes, we had a little wireless just on the side and we used to listen to that and I can remember the day it was declared, as I say, I wasn’t very old when it came over, and I can’t quite remember the man’s name who declared it on the radio.
HD: Winston Churchill?
SG: It might have been. It was II o’clock the war was started, yeah, as I say it seems a long, long time ago now.
HD: So what happened after the war then, when it finished, what did you do then?
SG: Well, I think people just carried on what they were doing really but there was still a lot of poverty about. Well, there wasn’t a lot of money going about. My dad, he worked for Austins and ‒, but until, I say, even mum used to go out to work, ‘cause when I was eleven a lot of women went potato picking but I couldn’t go because I had to stop at home to look after Molly. Mum worked for Smith’s Crisps. I couldn’t go potato picking, so she said I was terribe with [unclear], blame her [laughs]. Molly as I say, Molly was a lot younger than me, yeah. We had really a decent home really, ups and downs, but I mean we justed mucked in together. We didn’t have much money. ‘Cause mum bought a pram for Molly. She had to send it back ‘cause she hadn’t made the payments and she wouldn’t let them take it back while it was dark [laughs], yeah. Really it was hard days I think but yeah, you just got on with life really. As I say I stayed ‒, I changed my job when I was about nineteen I think. I was fed up working on a Saturday so I went to Hudsons [?]. I’d never done any office work in me life. I just went and filled a form in and I was in the foreman’s office and no experience. I was just there until I got married.
HD: And when did you get married?
SG: 19 ‒, I can’t remember, I can’t remember. When was you born Malc?
Other: 1952.
SG: Well yes, so we’d been married eleven months before I had Malcolm because the men I worked with said ‘I’ll give you nine months’ but it was eleven months with Malcolm. ’51, yeah.
HD: Is there anything else you’d like to add about your experiences as a teenager?
SG: Yeah, well there used to be army cadets and we used to like going there ‘cause they had one at South Park and then there was one on ‒, oh, I belonged to the Girls’ Brigade. I got a photograph somewhere. We used to wear all the things and we used to go up and that was on [unclear] Mill. It was the old high school and I was in the Girls’ Brigade, I got a photograph somewhere.
HD: Being in the Girls’ Brigade can you tell me if you helped in any way during the war?
SG: Well no,it wouldn’t be during the war. It would be after I think. I would have been about seventeen before I went in there, yeah. No, I never went out much before then, not really. I think I went to the Girl Guides and we were brought up by a Methodist chap. Mum used to clean the chapel next door and Methodists went there and ‒
Other: Your mother was quite into politics.
SG: Oh, mum was, very much into politics, Labour Party, and one of my daughters, my sisters, had a baby before she was married so mum won’t put up [unclear], she would still go to the Labour Party but wouldn’t put up with any of the [unclear] or anything ‘cause [unclear] had this baby before she was married. Little bit different now.
Other: Were you able to put the wireless on yourself when you got in from work?
SG: Oh yes, yes, that’s all we used to listen to and I used to read a lot but the wireless yeah, we used to listen to Joseph Locke and all the real ‒, radio was all we had. We did get a telly when I got married. My brother bought a little black and white one but there was no adverts, they used to play music between, between the stations yeah. We got our first one when we got married. We won five pound so we ‒, it was a Radio Rental, we had a little black and white one and then we got colour.
HD: Well, thank you very much for giving some of your reminiscinces here. It has been most interesting.
SG: Well, when I look back it [unclear] but it was more content than nowadays, definitely, definitely, not only that we could walk about and not worry but you can’t let children walk about now, which is sad.
Other: Your dad carried on working throughout the war.
SG: Oh until he was seventy.
Other: And what did he do?
SG: Oh he was on the ‒, with the oil. ‘Cause he used to be as clean as anything. And my brother used to work there and he used to get oil all over [unclear] yeah. He couldn’t see very well, he’d had rheumatic fever when he was a boy and he wouldn’t give me away ‘cause he had no hair so my brother gave me away when I got married, but he had an allotment and he used to get all [unclear] and if we did go away for a week ‘cause later on it used to be on the Friday night he used to bring all the beans and things and we used to get them ready and we used to stay in some little room at Mablethorpe and had one of them chalets on the top. We just started when [unclear] but mum died, when she was about sixty four I think, she died when she was about sixty four, she was just getting that she could go out and about and had a little money to go on holiday, and go into Mablethorpe in her house or something and then have a chalet on the top. She just got going.
Other: Did grandad, your dad did he ever, I can’t remember if he said he joined the Home Guard or go out fire watching?
SG: No, no. Oh, he might have gone firewatching and Alan did as well ‘cause Alan didn’t go in the army. Yeah, dad went firewatching. His eyes were very bad, my dad had rheumatic fever when he was a boy.
Other: But he did see you lighting the fire though.
SG: Yes, yes, [laughs]. That was the only time I got a good hiding. Mum used to, now and again, and she wouldn’t swear, she used to say ‘darn it’, she never used to swear, it was ‘darn it’, no nothing. That was when we lived in Ledbury[?] before we got married. But there was looking back, a lot of bombs did drop round Lincoln because we had a lot of Air Force and, as I say, the army. I think a lot of army were around but not a lot of Air Force, I don’t think there was a great deal, they was just outside Lincoln, most of them.
Other: Did you go to church very much during the war?
SG: Pardon?
Other: Did you go to church?
SG: Oh we went to chapel, chapel. That’s where I want to go when anything happens to me. I want to be buried Methodist. I do go to er ‒, we have luncheon clubs in the church hall but no, I’ve just told you that ‒.
Other: Did you go to chapel every week then?
SG: What love?
Other: Did you go to chapel?
SG: Church? Sunday school, oh yes, well we only lived next door so we couldn’t get away from it, mum used to clean it so we used to go there. I can remember sitting there on these little chairs but I don’t think kids go to Sunday School much now do they? And then we used to have the ‒, in the arboretum we used to have a special service there. We used to walk up in the arboretum and they had all the Sunday Schools used to walk up there.
Other: I remember your dad, our dad, your husband, telling me about the Robin Hood march.
SG: Oh that was the pub. It was the drill hall. They used to do a special dinner but we weren’t allowed to go. Mother was so ‒, ‘No, you’re not going’ ‒
Other: So proud.
SG: She was proud
Other: But dad, he had a different upbringing of course, he went didn’t he, to the dinners?
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Sybil Green
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Helen Durham
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-22
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Sound
Identifier
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AGreenS160622, PPeadonAH1605
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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00:34:20 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Sybil was born in Bracebridge near Lincoln, she went to Bracebridge School then left at fourteen to work first at a Co-op store and then at and electric shop. Sybil talks about civilian life in wartime, her family working at Foster Quinns, fire watches, shelters, and people moving to Lincoln from Sheffield. She recollects meeting her husband, then moving to office work at Hudsons after the end of the war. She married in 1951. Reminisces receiving a telegram about the loss of her brother Alec Henry Peadon, killed after he bailed out over Belgium.
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Lincoln
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Pending revision of OH transcription
bale out
childhood in wartime
civil defence
evacuation
firefighting
home front
killed in action
love and romance
shelter
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/544/8785/AHookerFJ160525.2.mp3
03e38dd3495780227f67637e5adb86f4
Dublin Core
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Hooker, Fred
Fred J Hooker
F J Hooker
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Hooker, FJ
Description
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31 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Fred Hooker (b. 1924, 1850487 Royal Air Force) and his scrapbook containing photographs and documents. He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 102 Squadron and became a prisoner of war on 12 September 1944.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-05-25
2017-08-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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DM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Meanwell. The interviewee is Fred Hooker. The interview is taking place at Mr Hooker’s home in -
FH: Church Crookham.
DM: And the date today is the twenty -
FH: 25th
DM: Fifth of May 2016. Ok Fred. Well if you could perhaps start off by telling me a little bit about your childhood, growing up and your family.
FH: I was born in a little hamlet called Dipley under the control of Hartley Wintney Rural District Council in 1924 which makes me ninety two now and I’m one of nine children born to my parents Minnie and William Hooker. I’m the last one living now. The rest have all passed on. My elder brother was a prisoner in Japan when Hong, captured when Hong Kong fell in 1941. Unfortunately, he died on the same day as I was released from the German prisoner of war camp. I done all my schooling in Hartley Wintney walking about three and a half mile each day to school. I only had a secondary education and joined the Boy Scouts at the age of eleven and then in 1941 when the Air Training Corps was first formed we heard, a friend of mine and myself heard of a squadron being formed in Basingstoke which we made, we found out where the squadron was meeting and we visited each week to their meetings until the flight of the same squadron four four, 444 squadron was developed in Hartley Wintney.
FH: So, when, when were, when were you old enough to be called up? I mean did you get called up or did you volunteer first?
DM: Yeah. I was just coming to that one.
FH: Right.
DM: In 1941 I made an application to the air ministry to volunteer for air crew duties in which I went to Oxford for an assessment test which unfortunately I failed on the first attempt but the following December, 1942 I once again applied and was successful in passing out and was put on the waiting list to be called up to train as a wireless operator/air gunner. In March 1943 I received my calling up papers and I had to report to Lord’s Cricket Ground in London along with a load of other chaps the same day and there we were, had our usual injections, issued with our full RAF uniform which I was very proud to, to receive and from there I was in London about a fortnight and then posted to Shropshire. A place called Bridgnorth where I done my ITW training which consisted of a lot of square bashing as we called it and school classroom work. From there we were sent on leave and had instructions while on leave to report to Yatesbury in Wiltshire for the wireless training which was all new to me although I had done Morse, a certain amount of Morse sending and receiving while in the Air Training Corps. Unfortunately, when we got on to technical side of the wireless I’m afraid I come unstuck and I had to leave the course and then sent to Sheerness on the Isle of Sheppey, re-mustered and became, was put on the list to train as a straight air gunner. Once again I had to go through the, an ITW which was at Bridlington and we done all our square bashing and PT exercises along the front on the promenade which was rather draughty being that it was in the January February time. Having passed out there we were sent on leave once again and on the 28th of December 1943 I left home and travelled overnight to [Carn?] in, sorry it wasn’t [Carn?]. It was Stormy Down in South Wales. Number 7 AGS. Air Gunner School. From there, very disappointingly we’d done nothing for three days until the 1st of January when we was all called on parade and was instructed that we would be training as straight gunners. I was in a section of chaps who was posted to the satellite station at Rhoose which is now Cardiff Airport. Greatly changed these days. There we was in, put in classes of about ten or twelve chaps. My instructor was a Sergeant Walmsley who I, we had a photograph taken of the group in our little classroom. When we finally passed out as air gunners which was somewhere about April the same year, 1944.
[Recording paused]
I passed out as a sergeant air gunner in April if I remember right and from there we were sent on leave not knowing what initial training wing we were going to which turned out to be Moreton in the Marsh, Gloucestershire where we met up, or where I met up with some old pals I had been training with right throughout the, my service life and while waiting on Reading Station to travel to Moreton in the Marsh I spoke with a warrant officer who was going to the same station and apparently he was a pilot who had been flying high service ranking officer’s about the country and wanted a change and fly something much larger. So when we were at Moreton in the Marsh we were instructed to mix amongst all the other lads that had arrived there at the same time. Navigators, bomb aimers, wireless operators, pilots and Phil, this chap from Devonshire, the warrant officer, we palled up together straight away and I introduced Leslie, a lad I’d been with since leaving Sheerness to go, to start my training as a straight air gunner and introduced him to Phillip who eventually introduced us to a bomb aimer by the name of Yon Davies from Wales and Jock Munroe from Aberdeen who was a navigator. We had a nice long chat together and decided that we would form a crew together but we was minus a wireless operator which on the following day we had to parade again and while we was in the assembly hall Phillip notified the officer in charge that we, he was short of a wireless operator who then introduced us to Dougie, a chap from Yorkshire who was looking for a crew and we all shook hands and we were then classed as a crew which was the only all British crew on the course at the time. The remainders had New Zealand, Australian and South African pilots. From there we done a lot of landing, circuits and bumps. That’s the word. Circuits and bumps. Giving the pilot a chance to get used to the twin engine aircraft which was a Wellington and we done quite a lot of cross country running while we was there to keep fit and of course cross country flying where we done our, the gunners done their firing, air to air firing over the Irish Sea. We, we then moved on, having passed out as a crew from the Moreton in the Marsh we were posted to a place called Dishforth in Yorkshire near the city of Ripon. There we converted to four engine Halifax bombers which was rather exciting in a way because there was the first time I had my own turret. During our training at Stormy Down Les and myself used to take it in turns firing from the tail turret as there was only the one turret on the Wellington air craft. The turret was a Boulton Paul manufactured and being in the mid-upper I could see all the way around which was a marvellous experience for the first few times seeing that I could look in all directions, scanning the skies for other aircraft that were sent up for training purposes to help us identify various aircraft which was, we’d done a lot of of course at Stormy Down but it increased as we got into Moreton in the Marsh where we crewed. From there we finally passed out but not before we lost our wireless operator. Unfortunately, Dougie got into trouble while visiting Harrogate one night and we, before we left we contacted or we was introduced to a Canadian wireless operator/air gunner and we all agreed that we’d welcome him in to the crew which we did but in the conversation that took place while we was being introduced he told us that he’d operated on Marauders from Blackbushe Airport and I looked, I said nothing and after a while he enquired where we’d all come from so when he got around to me asking where I lived I asked him if he knew much about the area that he’d been stationed at at Blackpool er Blackbushe Airport and he mentioned that he’d used to go to the village of Hartley Wintney and drink in the Lamb Hotel and the Swan Hotel which made me smile and from then on he realised that I knew something about Hartley Wintney.
[Recording paused]
Our new member. His name, we called him Pacqi, Pacqie Pacquette but he was known as Pacqi. I can’t pronounce his proper name but not to worry. He turned out a good pal of all of us and he was very good at his job. And at times we, during training we changed positions and done each other’s jobs just for a few short while, time. Sometimes you’d, I’d go in the bomb aimer’s position just to get used to using the sight just in case of an accident while we was on operations and at one stage I actually took the controls of the Halifax which was a dual aircraft at the time and of course the skipper was there in readiness in case of rather sharp dives or anything but we, as a crew we melled together and it was quite a, good companions. Les, the gunner that I trained with right throughout and myself were, became very good pals and one weekend when we had a weekend pass we travelled down to Hartley Wintney together and Les met my parents and the family that was home at the time and we had quite a nice weekend together there but finally of course we was posted, had a posting come through for South Africa after we passed out as a full crew on conversion unit which was a Canadian unit at Dishforth. We were in, actually in line at the headquarters to get our passes to go to South, leave in Africa and we heard the voice on the tannoy to say that Pilot Officer Groves’ crew and two others that were there. I can’t remember the pilot’s names, to report back to the flight office as leave had been cancelled. Very disappointingly we walked back to the flight office and we were informed that we, that our posting had been changed and we were going to 102 squadron at a place called Pocklington, twelve miles from York, that same day. We would be replacing three crews that had experience that were being posted to South Africa where we were originally going to be posted to. Well, no leave so off we went. We got everything packed ready to go and the three crews were instructed to be ready to leave the squadron at 2 o’clock, if I remember right, on that same afternoon which was the 18th of August 1944 and on our journey by coach to Pocklington we arrived along the road, I can’t tell you the actual number of the road but as we were about to turn into the ‘drome we saw a Halifax bomber that had crashed in the field right opposite the ‘drome and we learned later that it had failed to take off but they were lucky nothing exploded and the bombs were still in the aircraft as we landed on, arrived at the aerodrome which wasn’t a very good sight for us. We weren’t very pleased about it. But I did fail to say that when we got to the, when we first got to the squadron my pilot, Warrant Officer Groves was, got his commission, was then Pilot Officer Groves who, for the first time had to go to his quarters and the, us NCOs to our quarters and the first time we’d been parted from that angle but everything turned out right and we settled into out billets taking over the beds of a crew that had failed to return the previous day.
[Recording paused]
DM: Ok.
FH: On the, as I said we arrived at the squadron on the 18th of August. Unfortunately our stay wasn’t too long but we’d done a few flights from there. I think we started on the 16th of August, just local flights landing and taking off and we done, was called, or we noticed our name on standing orders on the 3rd of September to go on our first bombing operation which turned out to be an airfield in Holland named Venlo. Venlo Airfield. Of course everything was new to us with regards the information we gained from the camp commander, the bomber, bomb aimer officer, navigation officer, the gunnery officer giving us instructions where the different gun emplacements were on our route but fortunately for us they were few and far between and our flight was quite straightforward although there was just a few puffs of flak exploding as we got near to the airfield but the bombing went straight and good. The pilot, not the pilot, the bomb aimer I should say, took photographs of the bombs exploding and on our return journey our wireless operator called up to get permission to land and we were diverted to an aerodrome in the Midlands, just close to Cambridge if I remember right. The name I’m afraid I forgot there, the actual aerodrome but it turned out to be an American ‘drome and when we arrived there the weather was as bad as it was at Pocklington but after three attempts the pilot said, ‘Well I must go in this time,’ he says, ‘We’re very short of fuel,’ and the Americans switched on the ground lights to give us assistance but unfortunately the weather was so bad we only got glimpses of the flare path and as the pilot went in so we realised there was a hangar coming towards us. I was sitting in the top turret and I could see this hangar coming towards us but fortunately the engines were cut and the aircraft came to a standstill rather abruptly but lucky enough everybody was safe and wasn’t hurt in anyway but once we got out of the aircraft and taken to the debriefing room of the American forces that were stationed there we were swore at by the Americans for making such a bad landing but it turned out they hadn’t given us any warning of the ground wind and as Phil went in so he was blown off the runway on to the grass and the Americans weren’t very happy and neither were we actually. Anyhow, we had a debrief, a short debriefing and then shown to our billets and from there we were taken to the dining room. We were all starving hungry by this time. Unfortunately for myself I didn’t enjoy the meal so much as the others. It was a whole partridge and vegetables. Having been instructed not to fly with dentures by the medical officer at 102 squadron I’d taken my dentures out and which gummed me and of course where the other lads were gnawing the bones I had a job to gnaw them. I cut some of the meat off and was able to eat that but with regards gnawing the bones which I could see my pals really enjoying I was absent from that part. But our stay there was, lasted a week which we were rather surprised about but one of the reasons why we weren’t allowed to land at Pocklington there was a hill, I understand, about eight hundred feet high, where we had to fly in over to make our approach and it just wasn’t safe to do so and apparently the weather was bad for a whole week there. We finally got back and again we had a severe debriefing, wanting to know exactly everything that happened from the time we took off ‘til we landed. We mentioned at the time during the debriefing of witnessing an American aircraft while we was at the American unit being flown by an officer, a Lightning aircraft, a twin boom one and he was doing a shoot up of the ‘drome as he’d finished his tour of duties apparently and was going to be posted home the following day but unfortunately he went too low, hit some cables and shot up in the air, ejected his seat and out he come but the plane crashed and we understand that he would have been promoted to a major on his return and would have to pay for the aircraft. How true that was we don’t know but knowing the Americans we took it along with us like you know. Anyhow, the following day, the, that was the 10th of September we returned to Pocklington. On the 11th of September our names were again on the list to go on the bombing trip that was scheduled to take place the following evening. When we arrived at the briefing rooms we sat down waiting for the senior officers to arrive and of course with one movement everybody stood up as the CO come in and we were told of our target and shown it on the map which had been covered by a sheet until the officers arrived, turned about, turned out to be Gelsenkirchen in the Ruhr and there was a load of, ‘Ahh’ because a number of the lads apparently had been there before and were very lucky to return. Anyhow, we each had our listen to the briefing and then we had our own section officer, like with Leslie and myself we had the chief gunnery officer of the squadron talking and warning us to be on lookout from the time we took off until we returned to the aerodrome as a lot of fighters used to return following the aircraft back to the stations especially if there was one crippled and as it goes in to land so they would attack and fly off again. Well the experience I had on that 11th of, on the 12th I should say, no, I beg your pardon, on the 11th of September was one I shall never never forget. We was miles away from the target and we could see this smoke in the, in the distance and as we got closer so the shells were bursting all around us and of course we was in formation going in to the target and it was just, the sky was full of black specks where the shells were exploding. The way I often explain it to people the sight was, visualising the modern day fireworks that’s, explodes with coloured lights and flares imagine that as being shells exploding all around you and that’s exactly how it was and while we was on the bombing run, the actual bombing run in the Pathfinders were telling, or giving instructions what to bomb. The red targets or the red flares and then a voice came over. ‘Number two take over. Number two take over. I’m going in. I’m going in.’ And everything went silent on the wireless and at the same time there’s planes at the side of us exploding, mass of flames. Oh it was horrible. We eventually got on course to come home which was a very pleasing one and the journey home was reasonable. We got rid of the flak and on our landing we taxied around to where our parking area was. The ground staff was there waiting for us and as we climbed out the aircraft they greeted us and we, as a crew, wandered around the aircraft and was amazed at the amount of holes we had in our fuselage. We, we wondered how lucky we’d been and as we got, looked up under the nose of the aircraft right where Taffy had been laying, his legs spread out, there was a hole in the bottom of the, where he’d been laying right up through the top and had gone right through between his two legs and out the top and he fell to the ground, Taffy did, and hands together and we all did the same and it was very quiet for a few minutes. We was all in prayer I assumed and we continued with looking around the aircraft with the ground staff and saying how lucky we’d been to return. And -
[Recording paused]
DM: Ok.
FH: We finally arrived at the tail of the aircraft and the transport was waiting for us to take us back for debriefing which, as a crew as we arrived we received our little tot of rum which went down really well. Apparently it’s a thing that happened each time a crew came back from a bombing raid, was given a tot of rum and debriefed which lasted quite a while and we explained to them as a, as a crew that we’d inspected our aircraft and it had quite a few holes and that in it and thought we were very lucky to arrive back on English soil. Anyhow, after that we had a nice evening meal and went to bed. I think we slept but it was a while before we went off if I remember right. Now, the next morning arrived and had our breakfast, had a look at the standing orders and there we were again down for the next bombing raid, which was our third. Two within two days and we all prayed, hoped and prayed that we wouldn’t be going back to the Ruhr which it turned out our target was a town called Munster in Germany and we were due to bomb the marshalling yards and if my memory is correct there was two hundred aircraft every half hour on the target, on numerous targets as well throughout Germany that day. Well our flight over Germany, the North Sea and Germany was quite usual with aircraft either side of us and we flew on and got close to the target when we got a few shells exploding quite close but, all these raids incidentally were done in daylight which I hadn’t mentioned before. So we could see what was happening in the skies to other aircraft but this particular day we didn’t see any damage to any aircraft. This was the 12th of September when all of a sudden I realised I was sitting in mid-air. There was no Perspex around me and I could just see my guns hanging over the tail turret and the ammunition across the, from the turret across to the tail of the aircraft. I guess I shook my head. I don’t know. And I realised that I was sitting in fresh air and had no guns to fire if I had to so I decided best to go up to, along with the pilot and sit with him which I got out of the aircraft seeing a big hole on the port side of the aircraft and the whole plane was full of flames and I saw one chap diving through the hole in the front so I picked up my ‘chute which was burning all across one corner of it. So by this time I guess I was losing oxygen and didn’t realise what I was doing and I can remember throwing it back on the floor, just standing there wondering what to do. With that, my saviour, Charlie the engineer, flight engineer saw me. He came running back, pulled me forward, picked up my ‘chute, I remember seeing his arm going across the ‘chute like this. He clipped it on and pushed me out but as I was going out I could see the pilot, white, his face was absolutely white and he was holding the stick back into his stomach trying to keep the plane on course I guess but that was the last I saw of him. As I went down in the parachute I don’t remember pulling the cord and I guess it was because the parachute was blown, blown to bits, or blown, the small auxiliary ‘chute was blown out and pulled out the main ‘chute which I think I went down rather quickly. I can’t honestly say how long it took me to come down but it didn’t appear to be in the air long but I do remember seeing a Spitfire circling around us who had been escorting, we had the Spitfire escort that day and that was the first I’d seen of them in actual fact but it must have come down within three hundred feet of the ground, flipped his wings and flew off again and I guess he was, he’d been circling to see how many parachutes had jumped out. I also witnessed this aircraft which I assume was ours make a belly landing in just one mass of flames. Make a belly, belly landing on the ground as though he was, he was just making a normal landing but it was just one mass of flames. With that I hit the ground and witnessed that there was a whole load of civilians and troops emerging on the area where I was about to land which turned out to be a field of sugar beet and away from buildings it was but there was a load of civilians but seeing a couple of soldiers I had no chance of escape I merely put up my hands and just stood there. With, with that they came and stripped off my parachute harness and was searched. Can you -
[Recording paused]
These Germans brushed their arms all over me. Made sure I didn’t have a pistol or anything with me and indicated that I had to pick up my parachute and being the size it was it was rather a armful to carry and I indicated to walk across the field and these two chaps was following me. Well we come to a barbed wire fence so one of the Germans put his foot on the barbed wire and held it down, indicated for me to crawl under and believe me that was quite a task with the silk parachute all rolled up and trying to get through which actually brought a smile to my face for just a moment. Being an English gentleman as I thought I stopped the other side to give them a chance to get through but that was the last time I stopped until I had to climb aboard a coach out on the road because one of the guards put his jackboot right where it hurts and believe me that did hurt and it lasted for several days. I just kept walking. Put into this coach which was parked alongside the side of the road and there I had a strip search, naked, everything, put on and then I was told to dress or indicated to put my clothes back on but of course my flying suit and all that kind of thing was pushed to the back of the coach somewhere. I didn’t see that again. It was only a few minutes before I saw Charlie, the one that had pushed me out the aircraft coming towards us and he was come in to the coach and we went, went -
[Phone ringing. Recording paused]
Yeah Charlie went to get on the coach we went to shake hands with each other but that didn’t last and we didn’t really shake hands because my guard, one of my guards hit me across the wrist with his, with the butt of his rifle and Charlie just looked at me. He had scratches on his face which were bleeding a bit. Nothing too severe and he had the same treatment as I did. A strip search and we weren’t allowed to talk to each other. He sat in the middle of the bus and we was about to move off when Taffy turned up, the bomb aimer, with his two, couple of guards. We didn’t shake hands knowing that we’d get another hit across the wrist and he was searched and put in the back of the bus and we were then driven to some army quarters which we assumed was a local barracks. There we were put into a big dining hall or assembly hall and facing a door. Charlie was on the left hand side of Taffy, Taffy in the middle and I was on his right and we stood there for a number of minutes. We couldn’t talk because being warned that microphones or things might have ears, and they’d listen to what we were saying. All of a sudden the door opened and a big tall German officer stood in the doorway. Taffy started falling, falling forwards and we grabbed him, both of us so that he wouldn’t fall and the voice said, ‘It’s alright Taffy,’ and he raised his hand. He said, ‘It’s alright Taffy. The war for you is over.’ And nobody said anything and Taffy was by this time standing upright again and the chap disappeared and we never saw him again. We were eventually marched out from the building all along the canal bank or at least it was a towpath. I assumed it was the canal or a river and to our left the houses were all burning and people shouting and screaming. We were being hit with pitchforks and broom handles all across the backs and the two guards were trying to protect us from them which they did and we were very grateful actually to them for that and we finally got to these, some more barracks. We assumed they were barracks and -
[Phone ringing. Recording paused]
FH: Yeah. We eventually arrived in some army barracks and were put in to a cell, the three of us together and there was only one bench along one wall which we sat on looking at each other and not saying anything, the fear of perhaps a microphone being placed and we just sat there. We eventually had a cup of very black coffee brought in to us and the following morning, oh we spent the night sitting on this bench trying to sleep but I don’t think we got much. Anyhow, the following morning we were brought in a slice of black bread which was horrible but later on we got used to eating it and it wasn’t bad but the first bite was ugh we didn’t like it at all.
DM: I have to just ask did you have your teeth with you? Did you have your -?
FH: No.
DM: You didn’t. No.
FH: No. No teeth and during that day or later in the day we had another cup of coffee brought in and one of the guards, the chap that came in spoke English and we had a conversation and he said, ‘We, we shouldn’t be fighting each other. We should be fighting the Russians together.’ Anyhow, we didn’t see any more of him and the following day, the following morning we were, we started our journey to Dulag Luft which is the main interrogation centre for air crew. It was quite a long train journey. I can’t remember the exact days it took us but it was, as we got on the way one guard that Taffy was sitting with went to sleep and the other one soon nodded off and Charlie was close to the guard, saying nothing to anybody just fiddled about and took the revolver or Luger out from the holster of the German’s strap he had around his waist, looked at the Luger and there was no bullets in it. A little relief but nothing, no words were spoken and we, I don’t know to this day what made Charlie do it or why. He, nothing was ever said about it afterwards. Anyhow, we arrived at Dulag Luft and that was the first time that we’d been separated and we were actually on our own. How close we were to each other in the cells I don’t know but it was a very strange feeling being alone in a foreign country not knowing anybody or be able to speak to anybody. After a while a Yankee voice was, I heard as though he was coming from the next building, next room and he said he had a gangrene foot and was calling the Germans all names but I didn’t answer because it could have been a stooge you know. We’d been warned so many times about these things that took place but anyhow finally after, I don’t know, I think I was in Dulag Luft about a fortnight but most of the time spent on my own in this cell being tortured as I put it because right next door was the loos and if one wanted to use them they had to drop an arm, pull a little cord and the arm would drop down outside and warn the guards that was up and down the passageway that they, they were needed. Now arriving in the loo the tap was dripping and I went to get a drink and wash my hands, sent away. You weren’t allowed to wash your hands after using the toilets or have a drink and believe me that was real torture that tap dripping day and night, day and night. It was horrible. Anyhow, eventually I was called out and taken outside of the building along what I call a, it was a pathway along the edge of a parade ground and then they took me down, down some stairs and in this room which was quite a large one underground and it had doors all the way along which I assumed was individual cells and I had to stand in the doorway of one of these that was open and in front of me there was a clock and two German officers come through, stood in front of me, one with a Luger and the other started asking questions and asking where, what happened on the squadron before I left and about the briefing and how many aircraft was taking off. All that kind of thing. I didn’t answer. Just my rank and name which annoyed them and they kept pressing this lever on the Luger, the chap did, which I assumed was the safety, safety lever and I was three quarters of an hour I was standing there thinking, ‘Well, why don’t you pull it?’ At the same time thinking in my own mind nobody knows whether you’re alive or dead. So what. And I remember that even now I can see, see myself in that room. But eventually they said, ‘You’re too young to die now Sergeant Hooker. Go back to your cell.’ And it was quite a relief actually to walk back in to a cell and be on my own. Funny thing to say and think no doubt but that’s what it was. Anyhow, the following morning the door opened and I was marched out again. This time to an office a few doors along. ‘Oh good morning Sergeant Hooker. Have a cigarette.’ ‘No thank you.’ ‘Take a seat.’ ‘No thank you. I’ll stand.’ ‘Please yourself.’ We had been warned that this kind of thing again took place and he started asking questions again eventually ringing a bell and another chap came in with a book and he started flicking through the pages of this book and in the end he’d flicked through the pages and named every place I’d been to from the squadron backwards to when I joined up. Even naming Dipley as the place I was born which I was absolutely flabbergasted with and I thought well none of my crew knew I was born in Dipley. They knew I’d lived in Hartley Wintney but didn’t actually know I was born in the hamlet of Dipley so I thought well they can’t have spoken and told the Germans. Anyhow, he said, ‘You see sergeant we know all about you so what’s the point in killing you? You’d better go back to your cell and we’ll send you with others to a main prison camp.’ Can you for a minute.
[Recording paused]
FH: Yeah. We was, I was sent back to my cell a little relieved. Still not knowing how long I was going to be in this cell on my own. Was brought in some food. Another slice of this dark bread and coffee. The following morning the door opened, ‘Come out. You’re moving.’ And as I walked down the passageway so I could see the rest of my crew and several other chaps.
DM: When you say the rest of your crew -
FH: Well when I, yeah -
DM: How many survived? How many?
FH: I say and the rest of my crew that survived the aircraft. Unfortunately my pilot and my very good friend Leslie, the tail gunner didn’t survive the aircraft when it crashed but it was a pleasure to see then the rest of the crew and these two strangers who seemed to be on their own. They palled up together and stood together and Charlie and myself spoke with them. One was a flight engineer and the other one was a sergeant and we was all put on a train to go to a camp called Bankau in Poland which at the time we didn’t realise was in Poland. We was told we was going to Luft 7 and, which took several days train journey with no food but Charlie and myself spoke with Frank Meade the engineer and the tail gunner Tommy Beech and we stayed pals right throughout our prison life actually and when we finally arrived at Bankau we were walked from the station to the camp and there was this barbed wire fence right the way around. We could see, it seemed to be for miles but inside all we could see at first was a load of garden sheds. Rows and rows of them. And after being photographed and I think we had a couple of photographs taken which was, turned out to be for identity cards we were informed afterwards and then waiting outside for I’d say about a half hour we were eventually allowed into these, amongst these huts which held about six or eight people and no, no windows in the huts if I remember right but we was, had to sleep on the floor in these huts or sheds as we called them, garden sheds but fortunately Charlie and myself managed to stay together and Frank and Tommy they were in the same shed which, we didn’t get much sleep at night because first one wanted to use the loo which was the old drop of the arm again. Sometimes the guards would take notice of it and sometimes they’d make you wait and anyhow eventually a number of weeks after we were put in to proper billets as we called them. They were huts similar to the English military huts with, divided in to rooms and each room catered for eight, eight chaps. We lost touch, Charlie and I lost touch with our bomb aimer, navigator and wireless operator in this time and, but Frank and Tommy stayed with us and we had two tiered bunks so Charlie and I was on one bunk and the rest of them, there was a New Zealand pilot, two Canadians. What was the other one? Two Canadians, a New Zealand pilot, I forget who the, what the other one was and the four of us but anyway we, we got on very very well together and after a day or so we decided to, that whatever rations we got from the Germans we’d put, would pool into one bowl ‘cause we each had a, been given a small bowl and a knife and fork, or fork and spoon I think it was so that we could eat our soup which was rather a mixture. Sometimes it would be what we called whispering grass. It looked like grass been boiled up. Another time it was cheese which tasted of fish and as you bit it it was like chewing gum as you pulled it out your mouth to break it along with a slice of their dark bread but anyway we decided share it and the Red Cross parcels which we had very few of but sometimes we had a whole parcel for oneself which was very rare. Normally one parcel between four and it was all pooled and shared out evenly and we made quite decent little meals from the tins of meat and mashed potato but had we had our own parcel we felt that we’d open a tin of meat, everybody would open a tin of meat and just eat that whereas if we shared it we’d have a slice or two of meat, a bit of potato or dried egg mixed up. We thought it would work out better, the rations. Which in our opinion it did and we was quite pleased and we, the eight of us got on very well together. The times, day time there was a mass of people marching or walking all the way around the perimeter track for exercise. It was quite a sight. Some in clothing that had been issued, I forgot to say that we went to a transit camp first before going on to the main camp where we were, had a good shower and a good meal and issue of a Red Cross case which contained clothes. Fresh new underwear, pullovers, socks etcetera cigarettes and we shared this food all together when we was in Bankau but the, pardon me. During the daytime we used to walk all the way around the perimeter track for exercise and perhaps meet up with strangers and have a chat and because we were free to speak there although there were guards patrolling around the inside of the camp but you kept your eye open you could talk freely and it was during this time that we discovered from Charlie, no, not Charlie, from Taffy our bomb aimer how he knew this chap that stood in the doorway and spoke and apparently in 1938 he was working with, in a factory in South Wales with Taffy and they got on well together apparently and not knowing that he was a German, in early part of ‘39 he left to take up a job in Cambridge which they thought nothing more about you know. One moved on in their life. He had no idea he was a German until he saw him standing in that doorway which you know absolutely shocked him and he couldn’t explain any more about it, you know. But that was one big shock to all three of us actually that day. Walking around as I say for entertainment and exercise was something we done each day besides perhaps playing a game of cards which we did manage to get hold of a packet of cards, playing cards, when we was in the room but failing that life was quite boring until in the early part of, well until the Christmas time, I suppose, 1944 being our first Christmas in the camp we all thought of Christmas at home, Christmas puddings etcetera so we decided to have our own Christmas pudding which what we done we saved the crusts off the bread each day for several days so we just ate the bread. We saved the stones from the prunes that was in the Red Cross parcels. We cracked them open and cut up the kernels, we cut up the dried fruit that was in the parcel as well and the prunes, a few prunes, mixed it with the dried milk powder and margarine. A little bit of cheese was put in to it and margarine and it was all mixed up together and we had a what we called a blower stove which was made up out of empty tins and another tin with a little bit of fuel in which, wood shavings or whatever we could find and we turned the handle and turned a fan, make a fan, blow the flames and we cooked this concoction up for quite a while and it turned out to be very solid so when it was emptied out the tin it was just a solid lump of mixture but the taste was beautiful. We each had a couple of slices, each of the eight of us and we had a cream which we made out of the klim, klim milk, dried milk, mixed it all up and it was delicious and we celebrated our first Christmas away from home as you might say, with this pudding. It was delicious. It really was.
[Recording paused]
FH: After that of course or during that time we could hear gunfire in the distance which we assumed was the Russians advancing on the German line because we, there was a radio in the camp unbeknown to Germans of course and we were kept up to date with what was going on with the war and a chap used to come around and everybody was on guard, you know, different schemes each day to, so the Germans didn’t know anything about it you know and little messages were read out to groups of people of what was happening in the war but eventually we were informed that we were being moved out from the camp so the Russians wouldn’t, wouldn’t kills us and the Germans would look after us, with a smile from everybody. But the first time we was ordered out on parade I think it was, I’m not sure if it was the 17th or 18th of January but we stood on the parade from 3 o’clock in the morning for several hours in the snow and blizzard just with the, we had two blankets which we had in the hut which were wrapped around us trying to keep us warm and we had our little Red Cross cases with a little bit of food in that we’d shared out when we knew we were on the move and the clothing we, we had on, you know. A couple of pullovers and a couple of pairs of socks and that kind of thing. But anyhow on the 19th of January we were called out again early in the morning and I think it was about 8 o’clock, I’m not too sure, we were started out on this forced march. The Germans not even knowing where they were taking us. Just told to march in a certain direction. Then of course the march didn’t last long. It was just an amble of walking both by the German guards and ourselves and we was put in to an old brickyard to have a rest later in the day and we managed to find somewhere to sleep, the four of us, that’s Charlie, myself, Frank and Tommy and we covered ourselves with the blankets to keep warm. 8 o’clock in the evening we were ordered to get up, go on a night march which wasn’t very pleasing and we sort of hung about in the brickyard and most of the chaps had gone by this time out on the road and something made one of us move some pallets that were stacked up. We don’t know why. Nobody said anything but we all crept in behind these pallets and pulled them back in position thinking we wouldn’t be found but unfortunately a sniffer dog with a guard just saw the pallets move, apparently. We learned this afterwards and so the guard pulled them out and out we had to go. Fortunately the dog was kept away from us and we were just ordered out whereas he could have shot us there and then but at that time the hundred and, what was there, twelve hundred chaps that had left the previous camp were out, all lined up and we were marched to the front of the queue or almost to the front of the queue where the leaders of the Germans and the leaders of the camp were all standing ready to move off which was, turned out to be a very terrible night for us. We marched and marched and the snow seemed to get deeper and deeper. Eventually we were actually up to our waist in snow trying to get through it and of course the marching had ceased by that time, we, it was just an amble and people was passing and others were trying to get in, you know in to the walkway that the leaders were making. Had a photograph been taken I would have loved to have had one of it but no and during the night we were informed through the, and seemed to go right through the whole column of men that if we didn’t get over the river Oder by 8 o’clock in the morning we’d be left to the mercy of the Russians and how this came about I don’t know but we, we got the message and by this time loads of people were in front of us and we, all of a sudden the four of us woke up sitting on our cases. Nobody else in sight. What happened I don’t know but we must have sat down for a rest and everybody else had passed by and of course by this time the snow was flat as a pancake where twelve hundred people had gone over it, you know and who came around first or who moved first I don’t know. I don’t think either of us did but we eventually I remember all four of us standing there. I can see them now or see us now there. Standing. Looking. And we just took over, we, while we was in the brickyard we’d broken up a ladder and made a little sledge several, which several other chaps had a part of and put our cases on and we was pulling it along which helped us as we all linked arms, the four of us walking along you might say like kids linking arms and we had this sledge pulling our four cases on. Anyway, eventually, how many hours after I don’t know but eventually we caught up with the tail end of the -
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Fred Hooker. One
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Meanwell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-25
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AHookerFJ160525
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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02:18:06 audio recording
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
South Africa
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Oberursel
Poland
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944-09-11
1944-09-12
1945-01-19
Description
An account of the resource
The interview begins with some details of Fred’s life before being called up for service, including that his brother became a prisoner of the Japanese captured Hong Kong. Fred joined the Boy Scouts aged 11 years, and then the Air Training Corp when it was formed in 1941.
He volunteered as aircrew, in 1941 but failed the assessment test on his first attempt. He passed on his second try and went to Bridgenorth for his Initial Wing Training. After progressing through Yatesbury, Sheerness, and Bridlington he was posted to No. 7 Air Gunnery School and was successful at becoming an air gunner.
After ‘crewing up’, and further training which took them to various bases in the UK, they took part in operations to bomb Holland, were diverted to an American Airbase in extremely bad weather, bombed the Ruhr valley, and on 11 September 1944 they were hit by flak.
Fred goes on to describe having to bale out of his aircraft. He was picked up by the Germans and made to board a coach together with his flight engineer and bomb aimer. Fred was taken to a prisoner of war camp in Poland and describes life there together with the value of Red Cross food and clothing parcels. A hidden radio kept the prisoners current with the progress of the war.
The Germans moved the POWs out of the camp before the Russians could advance too close and they were marched through heavy snow and sometimes at night. Fred’s small group of friends tried to escape but were caught and made to continue the march.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Claire Campbell
102 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
animal
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
briefing
crewing up
debriefing
Dulag Luft
faith
Halifax
Initial Training Wing
perimeter track
prisoner of war
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bridlington
RAF Dishforth
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Pocklington
RAF Stormy Down
Red Cross
shot down
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/168/8803/PRutherfordRL1501.2.jpg
17763d820255b635d062100fd6e3ecdc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rutherford, Les
R L Rutherford
Robert Leslie Rutherford
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. The collection contains four oral history interviews with bomb aimer Robert Leslie "Les" Rutherford (1918 - 2019, 146263 Royal Air Force), his prisoner of war diary, material about entertainment in the Stalag Luft 3 Belaria compound and a photograph. Les Rutherford served as a despatch rider in the army, he was evacuated from Dunkirk and volunteered to transfer to the RAF. He became a bomb aimer with 50 Squadron and completed 24 operations. He was shot down over Germany on 20th December 1943 and became a prisoner of war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Les Rutherford and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-09
2015-10-05
2015-06-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Rutherford, RL
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Les Rutherford. Four
Description
An account of the resource
Les Rutherford talks about the prisoner of war diary he compiled while an inmate of Belaria compound at Stalag Luft 3. Two months after arriving, he exchanged three chocolate bars for the notebook which became this personal memoir. He recollects memories of daily life, people he met and why he started his diary. Some pictures have been drawn by him, others by fellow inmates. Drawings and descriptions cover various aircraft, camp catering and entertainment, including a hut used for concerts, shows and band practice sessions. Various incidents are mentioned, notably the Great Escape, which took place at the Sagan compound of Stalag Luft 3 in March 1944. He comments on pieces of text copied into the diary, including Noel Coward’s ‘Lie In the Dark and Listen’ and Winston Churchill’s reflections on being imprisoned during the South African (Anglo-Boer) War. He describes the bartering system between the Germans and inmates and reminisces about the Long March to a new camp and the arrival of the Russian Army. Conditions were extremely poor and promises of food were not kept, although they did receive two radios. He explains that some photographs that had been part of the journal have since gone missing.
<p>This content is available as embedded video:</p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oY5CQIvtrao?rel=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe></p>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dan Ellin
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:37:32 video recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Moving image
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Poland
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PRutherfordRL1501
aircrew
arts and crafts
bale out
bomb aimer
entertainment
prisoner of war
shot down
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/553/8817/AMellorG151006.2.mp3
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Title
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Mellor, Gordon
Gordon Herbert Mellor
G H Mellor
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Mellor, G
Description
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Four oral history interviews with Gordon Mellor (1919 -2018, 929433, 172802 Royal Air Force). He trained in Canada as an observer and served as a navigator with 103 Squadron. He was shot down over Holland in 1942 but evaded capture.
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2015-10-06
2016-06-07
2016-08-17
2016-08-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Transcription
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AS: This is Andrew Sadler interviewing Gordon Mellor in his home in Wembley on Tuesday the 6th of October 2015 for the Bomber Command Centre.
GM: Yes.
AS: Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to interview you, Gordon. Can I start off by asking you where and when you were born?
GM: Oh yes. I was born in Wembley. The other side of Wembley. A place called Alperton. And this was in 1919. November. November the 1st actually. And I lived there with my parents. I went to school locally until I was thirteen. Then I went to the Acton Technical College so that I had an education which was a little different to the ordinary standard county school level. I stayed there. My father died in 1939, in the beginning of the year and I stayed there until my calling up papers came. The reason why I waited until then was that I applied in 1938 to join the Volunteer Reserve. I’d been doing four and five nights a week at evening school during the preceding months and I was a bit below standard as far as health was concerned. Anyhow, during the period in which I was improving my level of health which was during Christmas ‘38 up until the war was declared in September I used to go out for a run early morning, half past six or thereabouts and do about three, three and a half miles and come back. Have breakfast. Dress appropriately and go off to central London to work. On the commencement of hostilities between Germany in September ‘39 the Air Ministry sent back all the, I suppose it was all of them, certainly my papers came back with a general advice to make another application. Well, it wasn’t long before my call up number came so I applied in the appropriate form and I was accepted to go into the air force as a navigator. I don’t know why I particularly chose that from being a pilot but it held a fascination for me. This happened early 1940 and from thence on, after initial working during the day as a, as an ordinary airman. AC2 as we were called. Aircraftsman second class. I improved my health no doubt and no end and eventually we were taken off just what was ground defence. There being such a rush of people joining the air force that they had to farm us out onto other duties for the first few months. We then entered the regular course to become navigators. The first amount of work was common to all trades, flying trades, in the air force, to get us all up to a general standard of education. And after that we then became part of the Empire Air Scheme I suppose you would call it and I was posted to an ITW which was an Initial Training Wing for basic education on navigation. It wasn’t very detailed at all but it got us into the right sort of preparation level. And after some twelve — twelve to fourteen weeks, I suppose it would be. We were all told to pack up and we were then en-trained and taken up to Scotland, put onto a boat and we went to Iceland. And from there we got on to an armed merchant cruiser, I think it was and we were taken over to Canada where we were trained for the particular trades that we’d been allocated. Mine being the navigation and associated items. We trained at various stations around Canada. The planes we flew there of course was the Avro Anson and the training crew were the captain of the aircraft. He had a wireless operator as his regular crewman and had two trainee navigators — which I became, with another man. And we went through the whole course of navigation training which I think was something like three months. And we then had a certain amount of leave and we were then taken on for another four weeks on training particularly with reference to the stars and sites and the like. And then we were posted to another aerodrome entirely which was, in this case, run by the Canadian Air Force and had a bombing and gunnery course thrown in of some weeks so that by the time we came out we were known as observers rather than just navigators. And, as such, having completed the bomb aiming course and the like we then were en-trained back to the east coast of Canada and brought back to the UK. I’m not sure whether it was called UK in those days but we came back and landed at Liverpool and were immediately transferred down to the south coast where we were at a reception centre. Now, do you want me to further on that line?
AS: Yes, please but can I ask you first why did you join the RAF?
GM: Ah. Well, I suppose we had Hendon Aerodrome which was only a few miles away from us as I live in Wembley. The other side it would be from now but there was a little group of us all living in the same road and we all went to the same school. And aeroplanes were buzzing around the Hendon area a fair bit of the time and I suppose we recognised the various makes and patterns and we became interested in the flying and we used to, on a Saturday morning quite often we used to cycle over to Hendon. And there was also another aerodrome called Stag Lane I think it was and we used to stand around the edge of the airfield. Behind a hedge I expect. Not on the actual field itself. And used to watch the planes taking off with the owner pilots there. For an entertaining day I suppose. But certainly, we enjoyed watching the planes and we did gain a fair bit of knowledge about them. Even as youngsters. From, yes, eleven twelve onwards.
AS: Was your father in the First World War?
GM: Not as such. He was in the building trade. He used to be in charge of the whole site and all the work that was going on. I suppose you would call him a foreman or a general foreman. But certainly, it was one which required considerable skill. He had to familiar with all the various trades and I, perhaps got my interest in surveying from him. I can’t say. It just happened.
AS: So, you’d been trained in, mostly in Canada, and you’re now back on the south coast at a reception centre and you’ve trained to be an observer.
GM: Yes.
AS: So, you can do the job of map —
GM: As a navigator.
AS: Navigator.
GM: Yeah. And bomb aimer and also, we had some experience on using firearms. Also, in the form of the turret in the aircraft. They were rather primitive in the beginning but they did improve no end during the war.
AS: Ok. Please carry on.
GM: Well, having got back from Canada I was then posted to an aerodrome in the Midlands and I’m trying to think of the name. Lichfield. That was it. and we were then, we were there to become experienced in flying in the weather conditions which we could expect in this country and in Europe. In Canada we were much further south and the weather was much warmer and more pleasant. But we had to get used to flying in winter. And at the OTU the Operational Training Unit was there purely to bring us up to speed in the conditions in which we would be expected to fly in over Europe. After quite some weeks. It could be six. Six to eight weeks. Perhaps a little bit more. One was then posted to a squadron. And during that training period in this country then of course you met pilots, air gunners, bomb aimers and the like and you formed up in crews so that as we were flying Wellingtons at that time then the number in the crew was five. Or if you had two pilots — one a second pilot then of course it would be six. And I was posted to 103 Squadron with the rest of my crew which was in Lincolnshire. Rather north. And after a fortnight or so of familiarisation with the area and the conditions in, we started as a crew on our operations. First of all, with an experienced operational pilot and our own captain, as we referred to him, played second fiddle to a certain extent. He was the one who was getting the most instruction. And the navigator as well. The gunners had a certain amount of additional training but there was nothing other than the targets being towed by other aircraft as their object of firing at. Anyhow, we got through the early days and started operating against some targets in Germany. That went on until, let’s see, wait a minute [pause] I must have gone to the squadron somewhere around about April or May and strangely enough we were flying Wellingtons there as well as we had done on the, at the training. And then there was a change in the aircraft. The Wellington 1Cs were withdrawn and we were fitted up with Halifax which were Halifax 2s. I think they were. They were four-engined aircraft. More sophisticated in the equipment which we had to learn about. We started coming across the Gee box and all other bits and pieces which were more modern than we had been experiencing. Then we continued after a brief period of training to operate on the, with the new aircraft. Four-engined aircraft. And this did not last very long. About two or three months. Perhaps. Let’s see. It would be [pause] about four months. And we were on the first thousand bomber raids which took place in the middle of 1942. And we survived those ok and went on operating and when I got to somewhere about ten or eleven we were then transferred, as I say, on to the four-engined aircraft. They were, they were ok for flying. They probably weren’t quite the standard of the Lancaster in performance but they certainly were very effective. And that was Ok for a while until we were sent out on one particular raid. This would be the [pause] about the 4th of October 1942 and we hit trouble having bombed the target and making our way from it. A JU110 latched onto our tail and we had a little conversation as a crew. Shall we open fire on him? He seemed to be just following us rather closely at the back and I imagine he was waiting for us to get away from the town and when we got to open country he would probably let us have it. Anyhow, we opened fire on him. Whether we did any damage or not I’ve no idea but certainly we had ammunition flying all around us and we were set on fire in the two inboard engines of the aircraft. And the pilot had done his best to manoeuvre out of the stream of fire but the chap who was firing at us in the German plane obviously was well experienced and he just sank down out of the sight of the mid upper gunner. The rear gunner had a view of him but he was hurt in the initial opening fire from the German plane and it rather put him out of action. And as I say we, we had three or four attempts at shooting at us by the German plane. The fires in the two engines just, just got worse. There was nothing that could be done about it so it was a just a question of baling out which we had a procedure for which we followed and one after the other, I was one of the first so I don’t know exactly what happened to all the others but from visits and talks with the three survivors other than myself I rather gather that it was a disastrous period. The plane was going down fast and it was for everybody to get out of their particular position. More or less following the order in which we’d had dummy runs on. So, having got out of the target area the plane was going down towards the ground at a fair speed and we crossed the target just over ten thousand feet which had been quite low but it was suitable for the occasion. We were under two thousand feet I think when we started to bale out and I was fortunate. I came out of the hole in the floor of the plane, in the nose, because I was sitting on top of it and having lifted the seat there was just this hole there so I went out of there straight away. I didn’t want to hold anybody else up. And I pulled the cord on the parachute and I was one of the lucky ones. It opened and I soon found myself heading towards the ground at a very modest pace with the parachute up above me and swinging about a bit. But the strange thing was that having been in the noise of the four engines of the aircraft for some hours previously and then get the noise of the enemy fire coming through the fuselage around us it was amazing that nobody other than the rear gunner had been hit. But anyhow, as I say, having jumped then I lost contact with all the other members of the crew. The plane carried on going down. Losing height quite quickly . In quite a short time I saw the trees sort of rushing towards me. Which really was an exaggeration because the parachute was open. And I crashed in to the top of trees and I sort of went down through the branches and the canopy of the parachute of course got caught up amongst on all the tops of the tree. It turned out that I had landed in an orchard of some considerable size. The trees must have been fairly old because they were tall. And I came to a sudden halt in the harness. The canopy of the parachute spread over the tops of the trees and we were swinging and in the darkness, I had no idea how high I was above the ground. It could be inches. It could be feet. Anyhow, I sort of gathered my thoughts and I thought — I tried feeling about with my feet, swinging a bit but it did no good. The only thing to do is just to press the lock on the parachute harness and see what happens. So, I did and I fell. About twelve inches fortunately. It could have been several feet but certainly I was very lucky and as I say I fell about twelve inches and landed on my feet quite comfortably. The harness was left swinging in the breeze there and the instructions are to pull the parachute and its accoutrements to the ground and bury it if you can. Well, there were dogs barking close by so I thought — I tried and pulled it and of course the noise of the branches breaking and crackling and what have you set them off barking so I thought well this is no good. So, I stopped that and they stopped barking. Anyhow, I tried again a moment or two later to do it rather quietly but it was no good. They heard it and they barked again. So, I thought I’d leave it. So, I gathered myself together and thought, ‘Right. Let’s get away from here.’ So, do you want me to go on in the same vein? Ok. I was in what appeared to be an orchard hence some of the trees and I saw that I was next to a hedge at the edge of the orchard so I went through it into a field which ran down hill to a degree. Yeah. It was a comfortable slope down and I got out of the orchard and the adjoining field and I became aware, with dogs barking, there was a farmhouse close by. So, I thought, well I’d keep away from there, for some reason or other. I didn’t know where I was even though I was the navigator we had made so many change in course in the battle with the German fighter that I couldn’t be sure to within ten miles where we were. Perhaps even more. And down the slope and through a hedge and there was a road which also ran further on downhill so that’s what I took naturally rather than climbing. And having sort of gone past a building, a house of some sort on my left as I was going down the road with five or six people standing there looking towards the target area which was a bright light in the sky. I just walked past them and nobody said anything and I then realised, having gone another hundred yards or so that I was walking north. I thought, is this a good thing? And I was resolved that if I was going to go north I’d got a coastline up there and how the hell was I going to get over that? All I could go to would be Denmark which I could walk around to I suppose — which wasn’t going to be any help. And I couldn’t get to a neutral country that way so it was, the alternative was to go to either Switzerland or Spain. They were both south of me and I didn’t think that it was going to be much good going to Switzerland because you would then be interned. And so I set off on my walk and crossed country largely and that night I suppose the shooting down had taken place somewhere around about half past ten, 11 o’clock at night and so I was in the early hours of the morning and I had time to get away from the place where the parachute would eventually be found and also, with the plane going down it was going to hit the ground before long. And I got myself on to a track which rose slightly and when I got to the top I could see a fire about a mile and a half or two miles away from me which was obviously was our plane which had hit the ground and already being alight it set the whole thing on fire. So, I couldn’t guess what had happened to the other people in the crew. I had no means of contact. So, I thought, ‘Right. This is it.’ And fortunately, the sky was clear less and I could pick out the North Star. From the North Star I could get myself an angle of somewhat south westerly direction and I thought, ‘Right. This is the way to go.’ So, I picked up my marks and started walking. Strangely enough I hadn’t gone very far when I heard somebody else rustling around in the field. They’d got some sort of crop. I don’t know what the crop was but it certainly had shrubbery about knee level so it could have been cabbages. It could have been anything else. Anyhow, having heard somebody else moving in amongst it I stopped and knelt down so that I wouldn’t have a, anybody wouldn’t, sort of looking up wouldn’t see me so I knelt down and the other person walking, they stopped too. And I thought, ‘That’s strange.’ Anyhow, it was all quiet for a minute or two so I thought, ‘Right. Try again.’ So I started my walk again which was in a general south westerly direction across country and I heard the other person start walking again. I thought well, I don’t know. I wonder if it’s a border guard or something like that that’s on a lookout. Anyhow, I just knelt down again and I stood out and the other person got fed up and I heard him walk away through the shrubbery or whatever the crop was. I never did find out for sure that it was another member of the crew. It could have been. But I didn’t think from the way the plane had been heading at the time that it was likely to be so but perhaps it was. I never did find out. And I continued walking and eventually I came to a roads. So I started to walk along the roads rather than stay on fields and what have you. It was easier walking and you got along much quickly. More quickly. At that time of the night there was nobody else about so I walked down the road. Always taking the direction of sort of south westerly. I had just the one thought in mind. Get to Spain. So, whatever came in between was just luck and we’d deal with it as we came. Got along. So, I continued in that. Walking along roads and what have you the rest of that night and then it started to get light. This is, I have to do something about this. I was on a road and there were some houses intermittently along the plots in between which were built on. Anyhow, I thought, well the thing is not to be out in the open view when it gets light. I was very fortunate. I went between two houses to the fields behind and I found several hedges and the like and there in one of them was a copse of trees on a bank sort of arrangement. And so, I thought, ‘Yeah that looks alright.’ So, I got in to the, under the trees. There was a lot of shrubbery at ground level so I found that if I sort of sat down on the ground then I was well hidden and what else was around me I didn’t know. All I knew I was out of sight to a degree. It was getting just that little bit lighter so I sort of sat down and I must have gone off to sleep. This was October and I suppose it was getting light around about 7 o’clock or thereabouts or perhaps a little bit earlier. Anyhow, I went off to sleep and I came to life again and I could hear traffic, to a degree. And I sort of poked my head up from my hideaway there and I could see that just beyond me there was what apparently was a farm road and it was being used by the workers to get to the farm or come away and go into the various fields. I was fortunate that I had this cover. I stayed there all the hours of daylight. I saw the goings on of the farm and it’s, I suppose somewhere around about sixish or a bit later it got dark and I thought, ‘Oh well, now’s the time to move,’ so I set off on my second night of travel. And this became the rule of thumb, so to speak, for the next two or three days. I did have some emergency rations with me and they were sort of supplied in an escape tin I think they used to call them. They had concentrated foods like chocolates and the like in there. There was a nothing that was superfluous. It was all good stuff and so I carried on walking at night for probably four nights after the initial one by which time I had got a fair way. I don’t know how much or how far I travelled at night. I wasn’t a rapid walker. I used a fairly steady pace but I kept out of sight during the daylight hours. It was always a problem just before dawn to find somewhere to hide for the next twelve or fourteen hours. And I was lucky. In one place I found a cave I suppose you’d call it. A digging anyhow in a bank. It was a cut-out area I could sort of get into and sit there and it was also protected by shrubs and bushes and what have you. So that was a lucky find and I did manage to keep going as far as the food was concerned by having the odd biscuit or what have you. Because I had additional items like that in my pocket. I had anticipated, I don’t know why or anything like that that this sort of event would happen. So I tended when we were on ops to put extra bits and pieces in my pockets and the like. Such as a few biscuits and what have you but it certainly was nowhere near enough. Anyhow, this went on until my last stay over daylight hours. After that initial part of my movements was in a town or certainly a large village centre and I’d spotted a house which had been bombed. It looked as if it had got fire bomb damage. The windows were blown out and the like. And I saw that as I was passing through this village. And then I hadn’t got too far, having got beyond that point and it started to rain and I found myself getting fairly wet so I thought right. I’ll go back to this bombed house. I went in there and it seemed to me it smelled rather as if it was dry and went upstairs and it certainly was. There was no windows in there but the roof was sufficient to keep the inside of the house dry. So again, as had been my practice then I did get a bit of sleep and when I woke up I found the village had come to life as other places had come to life and I sort of looked out of the, one of the window openings and I could see that I was what was obviously the centre road of a small town. There were shops and people going shopping there. And I thought to myself, ‘My goodness me. I wonder where I am.’ Anyhow, I made sure that I didn’t display myself at all but I stayed up on the first floor of that bombed house during the day. At lunchtime it got a bit dodgy because children came out of school and a couple of boys were having a little game down below on the ground floor. Anyhow, they got tired of that and they went off. Much to my relief. They didn’t, as far as I could tell, attempt to come up the stairs where I was on the first floor. As happened nobody else came in. It dried up during the day having rained during the previous night and when it got dark I went off. Most people had, the shops had closed by then, it was fairly dark. There was no lights or anything on display of course and I managed to get out of the small town without being picked up or noticed particularly because I was still in uniform and the only difference were that I had taken the badges of rank. I was a flight sergeant at the time and there was nothing else except my battle dress which I flew in. I had discarded the harness and what have you of the parachute as I previously mentioned and I went on out of town. Anyhow, I sort of ran in to the rain problem again and this time I got wet so, considerably so. This is no good. I’m short of food. I’m not performing too well and I’m wet and cold and dispirited. Anyhow, I turned around and I thought, ‘Well I’ll go back to the bombed-out house and dry off. And tomorrow is another day.’ Well, it didn’t work out like that. On the way back it dried up to a certain extent. I don’t suppose I’d actually gone much more than a mile. Two miles away from my hiding place and so I was heading back there. I went through another small village and I saw a house. It was houses on both sides of the road and I saw a house and I saw a chink of light up on the first floor which would obviously, would be a bedroom. And I thought, ‘Well there are people there. I wonder —’ I pondered the pros and cons of knocking and see if I could get some help and I didn’t know at all whether they were hostile or whether they would be friendly.
AS: At this stage you were in France.
GM: No. I was still in Belgium.
AS: In Belgium.
GM: Yes. And so, I was just on the right side of the Belgian Holland border so I didn’t have to get, get across the border there. So, I was still in Belgium. And –
AS: Did you have a compass?
GM: Oh yeah. Oh yes. Yeah, I had one. Yes. I had a button as a compass.
AS: They had — didn’t you have two buttons that were compasses?
GM: Well, I had one.
AS: One.
GM: Certainly, I had one but it was — no. it couldn’t have been a shirt button. It must have been the battledress button. Anyhow, I had one. It was part of a general sort of hand-outs of escape gear that we were issued with and I largely used the stars to make an initial assessment of where I was going. Certainly, where one gets sufficient light then the compass was a help and I got a feeling I might have had two. One was a fluorescent. I’m a bit hazy on that but there we are. So — oh yes. I was pondering as to whether to knock on this house or not. Anyhow, I came to a decision. It was still fairly early in the evening. It was dark. Blackout was being imposed and, in any case, so I went across the road and I banged on the door with the knocker. What have you. And this was completely unexpected by the people because the window above swung open and a man’s head poked out, ‘Qui est la?’ So I responded as best I could. My French never was very good. And I heard him grunt and the window closed with a slam and I heard him coming down stairs [knocking noise] like that with footsteps. The door swung open and there was this rather short man, pretty much the height that I am now I suppose [laughs] and he looked at me and I showed him my battledress and I showed him my wings and he didn’t say anything he just beckoned me in. And I followed him and he took me into their sitting room or whatever it was, where there was a fire in the room. It was a grate sort of arrangement. You know, a slow burning one which is on all the time and he spoke to me in French. I had sufficient to tell him that I was RAF and I could show him my wings and badges of rank and he seemed to be quite delighted. He pointed to a chair. And his wife came down and she sort of grasped the situation pretty quickly and they immediately fed me which after a fun five days was very acceptable. And I must admit with the warmth of the room and the food I dropped off to sleep. I don’t think it was very long but it was just enough to take the edge off of the tiredness. Probably half an hour or so. In the meantime, they had been busy and they got in touch with the local priest and I’d woken up and made myself as presentable as I could and there was a knock on the door. And they obviously were expecting him because the local priest did come in and he came up, beaming all over his face, put his hand out and said, ‘Goodbye.’ So I thought, ‘Crikey I’ve had my chips this time.’ Anyhow, he was very pleasant and we did get on. He had a fair bit of English and I had a certain amount French and we sat there and he sort of found out who I was and what I was which he was entitled to do of course and he said, ‘Tonight you come with me.’ I said, ‘Ok.’ I was in their hands. I had sort of appealed for help from them and he was the help. So we said goodbye to the man and his wife and I understood they had a boy, a son, who was about, somewhere around about the age of ten asleep upstairs and he was already in bed and asleep by the time I called on them. So, he wasn’t a complication. I don’t know what they would have done if he’d woken up and come down and seen me there. It would have been a very difficult situation for them. So, anyhow, it didn’t happen but I was aware that it could have done. And the priest and I went off and he came from another village so we set off at 11 o’clock, 11:30 at night during the hours when you’re not supposed to be about. Except that he, being the local priest, he had permission to attend his parishioners at any time when other people were supposed to be off the road. And we went out of the village, along some lanes and then came into another village and lo and behold there was the church. And he said, ‘This way,’ or words to that effect and we crossed over from the front of the church, about fifty sixty yards perhaps. I’m not sure. I wasn’t very good at guessing distances. And he took me into his home and despite the late hour his housekeeper was still up and she came and welcomed me there. I thought, ‘Crikey. They’re taking a chance.’ But it was alright and I’d already had something to eat and I’d had a drink and they now made sure I had some sleep. They took me upstairs. There was the bed. One of these typical continental beds which were all sort of like, ballooned. Puffed up. Anyhow, it was very comfortable and I got rid of most of my clothes and there we are. I slept on a bed for the rest of that night which was probably midnight or thereabouts when it started. And I was, I was awake moderately early but when I sort of got up the priest was already out on his rounds so I must have overslept a fair bit. And the housekeeper had me downstairs and gave me some breakfast which was nectar. There was nothing, nothing I could do other at that time. I just couldn’t go on out in broad daylight. I was in battledress. And eventually he came back, the priest came back and he had done his round. Whatever it was and he said, ‘You’ll be moving on tonight.’ Or words to that effect. And I said, ‘Oh that’s great.’ And we, yes, we spent a bit of time getting to know each other. He was a very pleasant man and we had some lunch. He said, ‘I’ve got other duties to perform so, ‘I’ll leave you but we have a visitor to come and see you,’ and he went off out. Where he went to or what he did I’ve no idea but shortly after he left then there was a bang on the door and a lady walked in. About forty I would say she was. Very attractive and her English was excellent. It really was. And so, the housekeeper brought, I think she brought us some tea in, I think. Something like that. We had a drink in anyhow. She then chatted to me for an hour, an hour and a half and it wasn’t just a chat just to pass the time. It certainly was, the intention was to find out I was on the level and not a plant of any sort. So I learned a certain amount about them and she certainly found out more about me. Anyhow, she said, ‘Well, nice to have met you. I’ll be off now to my family.’ And by 4 o’clock or so she was gone. She hadn’t been gone long and the priest turned up again. And I thought, ‘Ah they’ve passed me. They think I’m on the level. That I’m not a plant of any sort.’ And he said, ‘I’ve got a man coming to pick you up to take you into town.’ Or words to that effect. And so, we passed the time of day getting to know each other a bit more. [unclear] I seem to remember the name was. And sure, enough a man came in carrying a coat and he said, ‘The coat is for you.’ I thought, ‘Yeah that’ll cover my uniform up.’ And so we made our, said our goodbyes and we didn’t know when we would ever see each other again if ever but it was very amicable and I went off with this stranger. A little man. He was insignificant in attracting public attention and I hoped I was the same. And we went down. The bus came. We got on. And we’d arranged that he would get on on the front. I would then get on and stand at the back and he would be in the front and when we got to our destination he would get off and I would then follow him but getting off the bus on my own it didn’t — so nobody realised that we were together. So, yes, I was on the back of the bus standing up and we went about half a mile and we stopped outside some barracks and there was a group of, a small group of officers and there was, obviously one was the senior. I don’t know what rank he was. He looked as if he might be a captain or a major or something like that. Equivalent to that but the others all sort of stood to attention and saluted as he got on the bus which I thought was rather amusing. Anyhow, there was one or two other people got on the bus as well of ordinary soldier rank because they had moved away when the officer got on. And we started off. We stopped a few times. The bus got more crowded and we got more crushed up between each other in the back, top end of the bus. Back end of the bus. And there was I. I was surrounded by German soldiers and there was several officers amongst them. Anyhow, eventually we kept going into town and which was obviously a much bigger place than I’d been staying in that night. That was only a bit of a suburb. And I saw my guide, companion, get up. He didn’t look in my direction or anything like that. He just got up at the stop and got off so I did the same. I had to push my way through the Germans to get to the front of the bus, get off and he was waiting for me. And we just sort of nodded and we started walking off together and the bus went on its way with all of its people in it. We walked up a road which was adjoining the bus stop. You know, it went up. It was hilly but it wasn’t particularly steep and we stopped at the front of a house. There was, both sides of the road had houses down them and they were in — they were what we would call terraces. A terraced road. Terraced road. Perhaps dozens all in one continuous building — and rang the bell. The door swung open. There was a lady there and she looked at us and I’m certain she knew the guide. He’d done it before. Nothing was said. We just went in and she pointed us to go down the corridor and the man went away having collected the coat that I was wearing. They’d obviously got a use for it again sometime. So I was then back down to battledress. The ordinary grey one. And the lady said, ‘Come with me.’ She was quite good on English and she led me upstairs and pointed me to go into a room and there was a bloke standing in there in civvies. I looked at him. He looked at me and he said, ‘My God. Another one.’ And I then sussed from that that he was ex-RAF too which so it proved. Except that he was, he’d been a prisoner of war and he’d got away when he was sent out to a farm and apparently, he’d made no promises about not trying to get away or anything like that. They just sent him out and he went and he saw the opportunity and left. And I was now meeting him in somebody’s upstairs bedroom in a family house. And in actual fact the village which, the town which I was now in was Liege in Belgium. And it was quite busy. A lot of people. A lot of houses and what have you. And so, I stayed with this lady and it turned out she had a sister and the two, two ladies were part of an escape route operation and I’d struck oil. I really had. The man’s name. He was a sergeant or a flight sergeant. I’m not sure. He should have been a flight sergeant but he was already in civilian clothes so I didn’t find out for sure. Michael Joyce. And he was Irish and he was a regular in the RAF and he had done a runner from a prisoner of war situation and he’d got as far as this particular house and he was on the same jaunt as I was. Trying to get back to the UK. We travelled together right back to the UK. How much further do you want me to go?
AS: Carry on. It’s fascinating. Do you want to have a break for a minute?
GM: Just for a minute. Yeah. Yeah.
[recording paused]
AS: I’ve started so we’re now re-starting after a break.
GM: Yes.
AS: Ok. This is part — part two.
GM: Two.
AS: Yeah.
GM: Yes.
AS: Ok. Do, do carry on, Gordon.
GM: Yeah. I was saying it’s difficult to remember some names but perhaps they’ll come to mind. Anyhow, the two ladies, the sisters, lived in this house where I met Michael Joyce and we stayed there two or three days at the most. I have a vision of, on the first of the three days that I had there of going somewhere. I’m not sure whether I went somewhere or whether somebody came to me. Anyhow [pause] no, they came. They came to me and we went out in to the back, sort of a, you couldn’t call it a garden. It was a yard, I suppose, at the back of a house and he took some photographs of me and I understood that these were to be for the, an identity card which was necessary to have if you were travelling. And it didn’t take many minutes but he obviously did it as prescribed and I stayed there at that particular house two and a half days or thereabouts and in the meantime they prepared an identity card of sorts with my photographs on it. Ausweis or something like that I seem to remember they called it. And they had up to date pictures of me and I had, yes, another, something on. I wasn’t in the standard battledress uniform at the time. I must have put a coat of some sort on. This man went off and he said the photos would be ready shortly and so, it proved. They produced a document. An identity card, to my mind and sure enough there was my photograph like this, on this particular card. And so that was given to me so that if we were investigated at any time it would be there to support me. And we stayed on and we didn’t go out. We stayed in the house. Except perhaps we went out in the garden at the back. I say garden. It was little more than a yard but it was open air and then suddenly one of the ladies said, ‘You’re off today.’ And, ‘Oh. Right.’ She said, ‘After lunch.’ And that was it. This is what happened. We hadn’t got any accessories to carry. We just were there. I had, in the meanwhile, been fitted up with a suit which I kept for many years after that and eventually it was then passed on to somebody in the family. One of the youngsters who was growing up fast and he would be able to wear it for a short while and then he’d be too big for it but — which was rather strange because I was standing nearly six foot two at that time. Anyhow, it fitted well enough. And so, we came lunchtime on this day of departure from the safe house and we had some lunch and then there was a bang on the door and a youngish lady turned up. A mature lady to some extent. Forties I would say. It seemed to be about the working age of many of the helpers that we saw eventually. And we got our bits and pieces together. Michael — Michael Joyce and myself, we went downstairs and out in to the street and we had this lady with us and we just, in our borrowed clothes, ambled down as if we had got not a care in the world which, in actual fact, I don’t think we really did have. If we got picked up then we would be POWs. Prisoners of war. If a guide was with us the most likely thing that would happen would be — shot. So the danger really rested on the shoulders of the person that we were accompanying. Anyhow, we went down and to the bus stop. Waited for a bus. And we went off and eventually we came to a railway station. I used to be able to put a name to it. It’s gone at the moment. Anyhow, we found that when we got there that the train that we were expecting to catch had already gone. So, we went into the waiting room, sat down and we waited for the next train which was some little time. During that time then other people, passengers came and caught whatever trains they were expecting to catch. And then we started to fill up with soldiers. German soldiers of course. A couple of officers came into the waiting room where we were sitting and they were being a bit officious I thought. Perhaps they were on duty with the other ranks that had also arrived so that when the train came in then there was quite a large number of German soldiers waiting for it. We had a few moments in which we weren’t over happy with the closeness of the opposition so to speak but we acted like some, just ordinary civilians waiting for a train. And as I say, it pulled in and we went up and walked up along the platform a bit and got away from the military reserved section and got into the carriage and there was already some people in the compartment. And Mike and I got in and sat down and the lady sat between us and the other people in the compartment and the train pulled off and away we went. And it was to be, yeah, a period of some speculation in which we sort of had periods in our own, each of us in our own minds we thought well, are we going to make it on here or aren’t we? Because this was our first venture of travelling any space or any length of time with other passengers. There was, I was sitting next to the — on the side of the compartment and opposite me was a lady. My vision of her now is very slim but she was well, she was probably in her late forties, fifties and she had a basket or bag with her and after the train had been going for some short time she then started to unpack her bag and she produced a meal for herself. Bread and cheese and sort of stuff like that that she offered around. And I just refused with signs more or less. ‘Non. Merci.’ Mike did the same and I’m not sure what the other passengers did but I don’t think she had any takers. Anyhow, she sat there and enjoyed her meal and there was no conversation between us and them or between themselves — the Belgian people, at all. Eventually some of them got off and some of them stayed on and we started to run into Brussels. And [pause] now, I’m getting a bit hazy about that. I think we ran straight in. Yes, that’s right, it was and slowed down and made one or two stops until we came to the terminus and obviously that was — which was in Brussels. And we then, of course, had to get out. We just followed the lady to the pedestrian precinct which adjoined the station itself and we had to wait.
[pause]
GM: Now, I haven’t thought about this for a long time.
[pause]
GM: I’m sorry about this. Yes, we came out. Eventually we came out of the station. The lady and Mike and me. So where did we go? Can you switch off for a minute?
AS: Yes. I will. And I’ll, I’d like to change the battery on the machine as well.
GM: Yes, whatever you –
[recording paused]
GM: Let’s make a start then.
AS: Ok. So, part — part three then.
GM: Yeah.
AS: Yeah. Ok. Do carry on.
GM: Right. And so, we arrived in Brussels but having got off the train we found that there was nobody waiting for we had missed the earlier train when we started the day’s journey. And we were now in Brussels and we had to take alternative action with nobody at the station. Our lady, who was conducting us said, ‘Wait here and I will telephone through,’ which she did and she said, ‘It’s alright. We now have got a short journey to make,’ which meant that we — Mike and I and the lady in question got ourselves to the right stop to pick up a bus. Which we did. Outside the station in Brussels. We didn’t go very far but certainly it could well have been as much as a mile and we — the bus pulled up and the lady conducting us got off and we followed distantly so that we didn’t implicate her more than necessary. We crossed the road and she said, ‘It’s alright. We are now on our way.’ And sure enough, within quite a after a short walk we came to one of the roads with houses on both sides again as they were, most of them were in the town and she knocked on the front door of what was a flat or a type of accommodation. As is in most cases there the sleeping compartments were on the floor above. Like in a mini house. And the, having rung the bell, the door swung open and a young girl came and looked out and she looked somewhat as if she’d got no idea who we were which was quite right. She didn’t. But she spotted the lady with us and she said, ‘Oh hello auntie. Here you are.’ And we were then ushered into this house and we met the girl’s, she was practically a young lady by then, met the parents and we were well and truly welcomed. There was other members of the family there as well. We gathered that we were expected to stay there just as a temporary measure for the rest of the afternoon and early evening and that we would be moving on before it was bedtime. So, we settled down to a very pleasant sort of social event. And eventually we were told that it was time for us to move on and somebody else came and picked us, picked us up. I can’t remember for sure who it was but certainly we had a guide accompanying us. And we left the family regretfully because they had been good company to have us at such short notice. We get on a bus again and we turned towards the centre of the city and having reached what was obviously going to be our destination we got off and a short step away from the bus stop we turned sharply into an apartment block. And we had a lift to take us up. I’m not sure what floor we were on but I’ve a feeling it was the second floor up rather than the first. It wasn’t right down on the ground, certainly. But yes, I think it was that one. And we didn’t know what we were coming to but the gentleman who was with us — was it a man? Yes, now I’ve got a feeling we’d had an exchange. We reached a door. He put the key in and let us and sure enough this was a letted property and we were on an upper floor. And as we walked in to the flat he said, ‘Please don’t make any noise. We do have Gestapo people living just on the same floor here.’ Whether that was true or just to warn us not to not make much noise I’ve no idea but it certainly had the effect. And he said, ‘Right. Well you’re here for the night,’ and what have you. Breakfast and the like and I’ll see you then and with that he left us and Mike and I had the flat to ourselves. And yes we made use of it as directed and we, we spent the night there. At a reasonable hour then the following day then we got up and washed and shaved and dressed and by that time our guide who’d been with us the previous evening again arrived and he said, ‘Well, we have a little way to go.’ So, we hadn’t got any luggage with us as far as I can recall except for just necessary pieces of equipment for a shave and a wash and those sort of early morning preparations. And we went down and again we were on a bus. Just the three of us. That’s Mike and myself and the guide and we did get across a fair bit of Brussels towards a railway station and when we got there we found that we had plenty of time so we had a little while to, sort of, look around us and try and behave in the manner as the other people who were travelling and not to stand out. Eventually we were [pause] that’s right, when we got off the bus we then had a walk up a hill in a road which was divided to get one or two lanes. Wide lanes in each case and with a series of plants and trees down between them. So, it was like a two separate roads in the event as indeed it was because they were going in opposite directions to each other. And we went to a particular house. It was one in a whole row and going uphill so it was quite a pleasant road of changing levels. And we didn’t go very far before he, again we found ourselves knocking on the front door of a property. Here we were welcomed in and within a short time we were being introduced to the lady of the property. The name escapes me entirely at the moment but certainly it was a well to do establishment and we were taken upstairs and right to the top where there was almost an individual flat in which we could — certainly was set up for us. For two or three people to stay for a short period. And so we were then in quarters which certainly were very pleasant. We didn’t get out whilst we were there. We were in the premises all the time and the meals came and we found it very pleasant indeed despite the fact that we were in Belgium and it was occupied and it was a danger to the other people to have us there. But when the evening came we were very pleased to be invited downstairs to the lady that owned the property and lived in the property and we found that a meal had been prepared and we were having, what you might say, dinner. But it certainly was straightforward food such as was available for everybody there and we had a very pleasant evening. We even, in the latter part of the evening, had the radio on with the British tuned in, British radio tuned in and we heard the 9 o’clock news. What the news was I really can’t tell you. But certainly, we sat and listened to that just as if we were sitting at home and listening to it on the radio. We then had a very comfortable bed facing us and we were much pleased and appreciative of the owner’s entertainment. Not only food but radio and yeah, we swapped news and opinions for quite some little time. It was — it was in actual fact quite an enjoyable evening and undoubtedly we should at some time find the opposite but it was much appreciated. The next, the next day we were within the premises and I seem to think it wasn’t until the second day that we had the news that we were again moving on and in this case it was another train journey and we — our destination would be Paris which was quite a distance for us to take on in one hop, so to speak. Anyhow, they arrived and we had a very early breakfast and we left the house quite early morning and walked down to the international station. And we were accompanied by men we’d already met and we went on time. I seem to recall that it was still, it was still subdued light. I don’t think it was particularly dark but it certainly was not a bright, bright daylight. It was in between. Anyhow, so we got down to the departure station and took the train. There appeared to be — yes, an arrangement. The tickets were all organised for us and all we had to do was just be there. So we got on the train and whatever the time was, it probably was about 8 o’clock in the morning I would imagine or thereabouts the train pulled out of Brussels station and we headed with the end of that particular part of the journey was to be in Paris. This obviously was going to involve us in getting across the border between the two countries. The train was pretty well full and we did keep ourselves fairly quiet. There was a few undertone comments between Mike and myself and the time passed. And eventually the train slowed down and came to a halt and we did what everybody else did. We got off the train and it was — until it was empty. You got your baggage such as it was and we then followed the general flow of people down the length of the platform into a controlled area where we had to pass through the normal customs and border procedure. Mike and I were split up. He went through. And our guide, he went through. He more or less showed us to behave and what was necessary by example. Not by being particularly close to us but we kept an — I kept an eye on Mike and this bloke and Mike kept an eye on him for his own purpose. I was rather, sort of taken aback by having got through the first stage and turned in to a large room in which there was a number of customs officers. I think they were seated. And that was alright because I could see what other people were doing and I sort of followed the same procedures and I was taken aback by the presence of the German army with machine guns held at a ready — ready position. Not just slung over their shoulder or anything like that. But it was, they certainly were there for a purpose. Anyhow, I took my turn with the customs officer sitting down. He asked me a couple of questions. I’m not sure what they are now. In fact, I don’t remember for sure at all. And I must have been satisfactory. I nodded when it was appropriate and he sort of looked me up and down. He did his part of the job. I got my papers back and passed on. And I was asked if I’d got anything to declare and well, I hadn’t got anything other than what I was dressed up in really and with a, ‘No,’ they waved me on. And with a sigh of relief I walked out of that part of the building into the open air where there more soldiers but they were not interested in me and certainly I was fast wanting to get away from them. So we, Mike was up ahead of me and we were following and he was following the guide so I followed them and when we got back to the right carriage on the train which had pulled through from Belgium into France we then found our seats and sat there waiting until everybody had got reloaded onto the train and we set off. It was a little bit of conversation on the train but I sort of, I don’t think Mike expressed any sort of interest in what was being said and so we had a comparatively easy trip through France to Paris and which, we sort of pulled in and, of course, everybody wanted to move out at the same time so it was no good wanting to get on your way or get out and be unnoticed but just behave normally like everybody else was and take your time going through the station. All we had to do was sort of carry what little luggage or coats or anything like that that we had which was minimal as far as I was concerned. I got quite a reasonable suit on. And our guide eventually went up to a group of people and we just ambled along, one behind the other so to speak and joined, joined the group. There was the usual sort of semblance of greetings and the like. It was here that we were split up. Mike was associated with another person to me and I was to be the guest of a very pleasant man. Was it Monsieur — Monsieur [unclear]? Anyhow, we immediately struck up a sort of accord and he was a typical Parisian and before long Mike had gone off with his particular new partner and I with mine. We went down into the Underground and he did the necessary purchasing of the tickets and what have you and I think we were [pause] we got off the, the Metro at a place known as Sevres Babylone and eventually got up to ground level and we then were in one of the main parts of Paris and we went through a number of streets and he said, ‘Here we are.’ The gentleman I was with had good English really and certainly better than my French which was handy and we came to an open sort of window. Near the front door and sitting at the window which was open, it being quite a nice day anyhow, was a lady and she recognising my companion and nodded. Looked at me. ‘Bonjour.’ We passed through the front door into the block of flats and there was a lift close by and we were way off up to the top very quickly where, having got out, and just a short step and we were in one of the flats at the top of the house and I was being introduced to Madame [unclear] and who was the wife of my leader, so to speak. And I stayed there with them for a couple of nights. Perhaps it was three. I’m not sure off-hand at the moment. I would have to perhaps see if I’d got a record of the days spent there. They were a charming Parisienne couple and I was [pause] the only thing was that they didn’t have two bedrooms so that I spent the one or two evenings I had with them I slept on a long sort of chaise longue piece of furniture in the sitting room. So that, they’d got quite decent accommodation but certainly not a second bedroom because they didn’t normally use one but certainly, during the war, they had quite a number of people who stayed there like me. They slept on the couch and it was very, very pleasant indeed. And I seemed to remember that the gentleman was an insurance agent as a means of being a family and earning a living because there was quite a number of callers who came. Obviously, they were all known to Monsieur [unclear]. And they didn’t hide the fact that I was there and with, one or two of them spoke with me during the, during the short business visit. So it wasn’t kept a secret. And on one particular day Monsieur [unclear] and I went out after breakfast and we were going to a circular walk I suppose you would call it. Whatever. Anyhow, we left the house and we did visit various places in Paris. Even some of the well-known high spots or historical spots. And the churches as well. On the way around we had to cross the Seine and we got nearly half way across when we met, coming towards us, a priest and it so happened that Monsieur [unclear] had some connection with this priest in the work of the church and so, we stood on the bridge over the river and chatted to him for a few minutes. And the priest was left in no doubt as to my identity and we finally shook hands and he went on to the south and we went on across the river up to the Arc de Triomphe and we went down the main road from there for quite some way. The Champs Elysee. And when we got to the appropriate point we turned off to the left, back over the river and back to what I can now, would now call lodgings and it was a half day, sort of outing which was most unexpected and most, most interesting. Whilst I was staying with them I did meet a number of other people and on a couple of occasions on different days then I was taken around the corner in the road there and into another block of flats and there up on to one of the upper floors and was introduced to the lady of the house and she had Mike as her guest and so that we did maintain contact. Mostly when we were in Paris. It was very pleasant meeting these people and they seemed to enjoy bucking the German presence there by really taking on quite a risky job of having escaped RAF people pass through their premises and through their lives.
AS: Can I, can I suggest that —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Gordon Mellor. One
Creator
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Andrew Sadler
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-06
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMellorG151006
Conforms To
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Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Gordon Mellor grew up in London and was interested in aviation. He volunteered for the Air Force and trained as a navigator in Canada. On his return to the UK he and his crew were posted to 103 Squadron. Returning from an operation they were attacked by a night fighter and shot down. Gordon baled out and landed in a tree. When he freed himself and landed on the ground, he set off to walk and by tracking the North Star, set off towards the general direction of Spain. He hid in a number of places during the daylight until after a few days he was inspired to knock on a door. He found he was in Belgium with friendly people who started the process that would lead to him being escorted through an escape line from Belgium to Paris and eventually home.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Belgium
Canada
Great Britain
Spain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1942-10-04
Format
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01:54:50 audio recording
103 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
crash
de Jongh, Andree (1916 - 2007)
evading
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
navigator
observer
Operational Training Unit
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Lichfield
Resistance
shot down
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/553/8818/PMellorG1501.2.jpg
ec53d3c84b8db787d307d49e498fe698
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/553/8818/AMellorG160627.2.mp3
ef968aa3b9b455b4792ca4b2012f76c9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mellor, Gordon
Gordon Herbert Mellor
G H Mellor
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mellor, G
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with Gordon Mellor (1919 -2018, 929433, 172802 Royal Air Force). He trained in Canada as an observer and served as a navigator with 103 Squadron. He was shot down over Holland in 1942 but evaded capture.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-06
2016-06-07
2016-08-17
2016-08-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GR: This is Gary Rushbrooke for the International Bomber Command Centre and today, the 27th of June 2016 I am with Flight Lieutenant Gordon Mellor at his home in Wembley, London. Thank you, Gordon. We’re in Wembley, London. Was you born in London? Are you a —
GM: Oh yes. I —my place of birth was about, I should say, two miles away from here. Also, in Wembley but on the southern borders of the town. Whereas I’m living here in the northwest.
GR: Right. And what year was that Gordon? What year?
GM: Oh that was —
GR: Roughly.
GM: Well there’s nothing rough about it. I can tell you the moment almost. It was 1919. 1st of November being the actual date. And I don’t remember the situation but —
GR: No. [unclear]
GM: My memory does go back to about my second birthday or thereabouts.
GR: That’s incredible. Do you have brothers and sisters?
GM: Oh yes. I had a brother. He, strangely enough, was seventeen years older than me so he was born round about 1920, no, not 1920. 19 —
GR: 01 or 02.
GM: 02 or 03.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: Or thereabouts. Yes. But at the same time of the year in actual fact except that he was a few days later than me on the actual date.
GR: In November.
GM: Yes.
GR: So, you grew up in Wembley. Went to school in Wembley.
GM: I did go to school in Wembley until I was about thirteen. My interests were more practical perhaps than other people so I went to a technical college over at Acton at that age and I stayed there virtually three years. And my school friend I found was living within a half a mile of where I lived at that time and we chummed up and carried our relationship forward into the war years and eventually then his sister and I decided to make it a go and we were married during the war years.
GR: Oh right. So, after college, if you was at college in Acton for, what was it, three years?
GM: Well it wasn’t quite, it was a senior school.
GR: Senior school. Yeah.
GM: It wasn’t a college as such. No.
GR: No. And you left there to go and work.
GM: Oh, I had several jobs. Mainly connected with, I suppose, the building industry. My father and brother and other members of the family were all connected with that industry. And what was I going to say? Oh yes, my early experience was in offices of estate agent’s and people who were on the, I can’t say senior side because I was only a youngster then but the prospects were good.
GR: Yeah.
GM: As a surveyor. So, I eventually started work with of firm quantity surveyors in central London. And after the war I returned to that profession and qualified with the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors.
GR: Very good. But obviously you’d started work and war was on the horizon.
GM: Indeed.
GR: I presume in September ‘39 you were still at the chartered surveyors were you? Were you?
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. I was working for a private organisation. It’s only in the post-war period that I went into the public service.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And certainly in the last, what —thirty five odd years or so I worked with the Greater London Council.
GR: Right. When war broke out did you sort of decide there and then to join up or —?
GM: Well, I was interested in aircraft from a young person.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was the ‘in’ interest shall I put it of the boys who lived and went in the same road as I did and also went to the same schools.
GR: Right.
GM: And we did get a strong interest into flying and the RAF in particular.
GR: Right. Was that an interest? Was it, was it Cobham’s Flying Circus or —?
GM: No. No.
GR: No.
HM: It was RAF Hendon.
GR: Which was obviously nearby isn’t it? Yeah.
GM: Yeah. And also there was a private ‘drome as well. My goodness me.
GR: Did you used to go up to Hendon then and watch the aircraft?
GM: Yes. We used, yes, we used to go over to Hendon and get to a position round where you could see what was going on. Although we weren’t on their ground but we were as near as we could get.
GR: To watch it.
GM: To watch what was going on.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And there was also another aerodrome close by where [pause] the name of it escapes me at the moment.
GR: It doesn’t matter. [unclear] So, it was —
GM: De Havilland’s I think had got a factory there, in that area and their aerodrome was also used.
GR: Not London — not London Colney.
GM: No.
GR: There was something there. I think that was the test place. So, it was an easy decision to volunteer for the Royal Air Force.
GM: Oh yes. Yes. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a main point of interest as far as us lads were concerned in that part of Wembley. Yeah.
GR: And did your friends join up as well?
GM: Yes. They either joined up or called up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: In the early days of war. But they went to army or navy.
GR: Navy yeah. So, so can you remember where you joined up? Were you one of the ones who went to St John’s Wood and —?
GM: Where did —?
GR: Did you mention earlier you did some training at Uxbridge. No?
GM: Yes I, yes, my first real connection was when I was called up in 1940.
GR: Right.
GM: Early in ‘40 and I reported to RAF Hendon as many other youngsters did and that’s where we started.
GR: Yeah. Which was quite fitting considering you lived nearby.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: That’s quite good isn’t it? So, yeah.
GM: Riding on the train and then out to where Hendon Aerodrome was. Yeah.
GR: Yeah. Did you do your training in this country? Or was you sent abroad?
GM: Yes. In actual fact there was a bit of a blockage in the training period and we were drafted out to various places. When I say we, there was about forty of us who were all called up together. And we were then posted out to various places and I was sent to [pause] Yeah. I haven’t thought about this for a long time.
GR: No. It doesn’t matter. ‘Cause what did you decide to train as? It wasn’t a pilot was it? It was a —
GM: No. I —
GR: Navigator.
GM: I was keen on the navigation. So I, yes, I volunteered for that and I was accepted for that purpose. Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And —oh dear. Oh dear.
GR: It doesn’t matter. Obviously training. You know, I’ve spoken to a lot of veterans and I think training followed the same —
GM: Pattern.
GR: Pattern all the way through.
GM: Yes. Yeah. We had as I say, several months on general duties.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Because there was, seemed to be a bit of a blockage. More volunteers than they could cope with.
GR: Cope with.
GM: So we joined up and we did general duties in many ways.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And in my case then I was posted up to Norfolk and I was on ground defence for quite a time.
GR: Oh right.
GM: And during that time, of course, you did pick up a lot of general knowledge about living in the air force and it was all good useful stuff.
GR: Yeah. Good. So, training, yeah ran its usual pattern when you started. And then —
GM: Yes. I suppose so.
GR: Where did you get posted to?
GM: The first real training as far as flying was concerned was at Aberystwyth which was an ITW.
GR: Yeah.
GR: And we did the course there and a bit more because there was still something of a blockage.
GR: Yeah. Right.
GM: And from there we then were posted to the Midlands as a short stopping off place and then by boat.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We went via [pause] where did we go? Reykjavik in Iceland and then through to the east coast of Canada.
GR: Right.
GM: Once there then things got moving and we finished up at Port Albert which was a training aerodrome in Ontario. About a hundred and forty miles to the west of the main cities.
GR: Yes.
GM: In that area.
GR: Yeah. Yeah. So, I presume life in Canada was slightly different to life in Britain.
GM: Well. Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. It was. It was somewhat freer I think.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And of course, not having to cope with the blackout. That was quite an interesting period.
GR: How long did you spend in Canada, Gordon?
GM: About seven months I think.
GR: Seven months. Yeah.
GM: There was the basic navigation course which was twelve weeks. We then had a week’s leave and then we did a four weeks course [pause] to follow on the navigation.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And having completed that successfully as a group, we’d all been together since we arrived in Canada, we then went to bombing and gunnery school.
GR: Right.
GM: In another part of Ontario. By the Lakes. And we spent at least six weeks there. I have a feeling we overran a little bit.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But then it was time which you received your promotion as a sergeant and we had parade and this happened. There were a number of, a group of, I think it was about forty of us all together in two main, sort of, groups. And some of the [pause] in each group were granted immediate commissions and the others became NCOs.
GR: Right.
GM: Having got the passing out parade done then we were given tickets and travel paraphernalia and told to arrive in the east coast of Canada. We arrived close by and embarked to come back to the UK.
GR: Right.
GM: So, yes, I thought that we were treated very adequately. Being — having jumped from, what rank was I [pause] oh dear. Oh dear. Something below corporal up to sergeant.
GR: Leading aircraft — LAC1?
GM: Leading aircraftsman. How right you are. This is dragging me into the part that I —
GR: Seventy five years of, yeah, remembering.
GM: Yeah. Yes.
GR: LAC2. LAC1 and then you probably went to sergeant.
GM: I did. Yeah.
GR: And then flight sergeant.
GM: Then flight sergeant.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And then yes. Warrant officer.
GR: Yeah.
GM: By that time, it was a couple of years. Three years on.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And from warrant officer I was commissioned.
GR: Yeah. So, before you got to the rank of warrant officer you were back in the UK.
GM: Oh yeah.
GR: Did you get posted direct to a squadron or was it a Heavy Conversion Unit?
GM: No. It was an extension of our flying experience. Mainly to get experience in flying in blackout conditions.
GR: Oh yeah.
GM: Because in Canada all the lights were on.
GR: Yes.
GM: So, as you soon as you got into the UK air then it was black.
GR: And of course navigation would be quite reasonable with all the lights on and if you knew where cities and towns were.
GM: Well yes. Indeed. There was no problem at all.
GR: Yeah. So, pitch black England.
GM: It was. Yeah. Well, of course you were young and adventurous so you attacked the problem with vigour and got used to it.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Which is what one had to. So, Lichfield was the place that I went to to get the flying experience in the dark.
GR: And was you with a crew then? Did you have your own pilot or —? Was it —?
GM: Shortly after that then we did crew up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And there seemed to be quite a number of Australian pilots running parallel with us. Most of the navigators, I think, were British. May have been one —oh yes there was an odd one or two Australians as well I think. And just a way of processing us for making up the numbers from other groups of navigators at the same stage as we were. And so, we went to Lichfield and whilst we were climatizing ourselves to blackouts in general then of course we were gaining experience as a crew because we were given the opportunity to arrange, sort of, the membership of the crew during social hours.
GR: So, this was on Wellingtons. So —
GM: It was on Wellingtons.
GR: Was there about —was there five of you? I think it is on a Wellington. Yeah.
GM: Yes. I think it was five at that time.
GR: Yeah. Yeah. Because you would have had your air gunners with you as well. With you at that time.
GM: Oh yes. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah. It was largely done by meeting each other in the mess or during working hours. They had a flight headquarters and also during flying. You got to know who the people you got on well with and it didn’t take very long to get a crew together.
GR: To get together. Yeah. So where did things move on from training? I believe you were —I wouldn’t say rushed but you —
GM: No. We weren’t rushed. We did well.
GR: Yeah.
GM: In actual fact that post-training period abroad, we did broaden our skills quite considerably with the experience we were getting flying around. And we did eventually do a first raid on enemy territory. It was sort of a single effort in which we flew as a crew on our first operation.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And it was a comparatively easy operation.
GR: Yeah. Did they give you something like leaflet dropping or mine laying? Or something like that as a —?
GM: Oh yes. We dropped leaflets on this particular occasion.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: It wasn’t — they weren’t a great deal on this occasion but at least we felt we were doing something towards the war effort.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: And that’s while you was at the Operational Training Unit.
GM: That’s right. Yes. Having done that single initial trip.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Within days it was postings were announced. And I think we all were all sent home on leave for a week or something like that. When we came back then the postings took effect. We went to the squadron.
GR: Yeah. And that was 103. Yeah. 103 at Elsham Wolds.
GM: Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: And I believe, was your first operation then the thousand bomber raid?
GM: Oh yes. The first thousand bomber raid. As far as I can recall.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I think it was the very first one.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Where did we go to?
GR: I’m trying to remember. Would that be Cologne?
GM: Yes. It would be.
GR: Essen.
GM: It would have been.
GR: Cologne or Essen.
GM: I think it was Cologne.
GR: Cologne.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: And I think that was in a Wellington wasn’t it so —?
GM: Yes. That was in a Wellington.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We had converted from flying Ansons in the early days at IT. ITW. Yes.
GR: Yeah. Initial training. Yeah.
GM: Whatever it was.
GR: Yeah.
GM: When we got back from Canada that we then converted on to.
GR: Yeah. And obviously, I mean, I know you then converted from the Wellington on to the Halifax.
GM: Yes. Indeed.
GR: Heavy bomber.
GM: That was in the summer of 1942.
GR: Yeah. So, and then leading on to what obviously was an eventful night. How many operations did you actually fly Gordon? Can you remember? Roughly.
GM: I think I was on my eighteenth.
GR: Eighteenth.
GM: Yes
GR: Yeah.
GM: I was looking forward to getting, going towards the end. We had thirty to do.
GR: Thirty. Yes. Yeah.
GM: And it wasn’t to be.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Which was a great pity.
GR: And those eighteen were with the same crew? Were you —
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Yes.
GR: So, I don’t know whether you can tell us a little about yeah, obviously I know you were attacked by a German night fighter.
GM: Well what it really boils down to — the raid followed the usual pattern and except that when we came out of the target run and dropped the bombs and we were turned away for the return trip back home and we were jumped by this German fighter.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And he just hung around in the background so — I didn’t see him. I was in the front of the aircraft so, but from the rear gunner and the other people who could look backwards he stayed probably something like five hundred yards behind us. He didn’t do anything that was aggressive or anything like. He just sort of sat there. And we did, with the captain making up his mind then, we did talk about what we should do and eventually we said, ‘Well let’s try and scare him off.’ Bad decision. Because we opened up on him from the four gun turret in the, at the rear and also there was a turret —
GR: Mid-upper.
GM: Mid-upper turret. Yes. And that amounted to six machine guns in all. Four with the rear gunner and two mid-upper. And that annoyed the [laughs] chap who was following us I’ve no doubt because having received a blast from our gunners he then opened up and he must have been very good because he really gave us, I think it was —I think four bursts I think we experienced and in that time he set the two inboard engines on fire. He also hit the rear gunner and he missed the rest of us by very small margins because you could see the tracers going past.
GR: And through —
GM: And through.
GR: The machine. Yeah.
GM: Yeah. Yeah. And it set the two engines so named so, we were burned and the pilot put us into a dive to get to a lower level and we were flying at about twelve thousand feet I suppose. Certainly, no more. We found that to be a relatively good level to make an attack and, on this occasion, it didn’t pay off out, pay off in our favour as it had done in the past. So, we were shot down, in plain English. And got down to quite low levels before the order was given to abandon aircraft. And I, in the front of the aircraft was standing on the escape hatch. So all we had to do really was to move ourselves. That’s the radio operator, the front gunner and myself. And just behind and above us was the pilot and his —
GR: Flight engineer.
GM: Flight engineer.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah
GR: Was you the first out?
GM: Yes. I was standing on the escape hatch. And they were, having made the decision, the general impression was get out. Don’t hold anybody up.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, I got the trap door up and I dropped to sitting on the side of the aperture with my legs dangling and I knew the others were anxious to get into that position so I slid my rear end off the edge of the opening and I was sucked out by the slipstream. And I didn’t pull my cord of the parachute until I was well away from the aircraft. And probably somebody else would have got out in the same time. And I eventually did do so but I wasn’t in the air very long. Just time to look around and there was the light and somehow or other it seemed to be yellowy to me. I don’t know what colour the night was there but I’ve got this yellow feeling in my memory so perhaps it was from the flares or something like that burning as the aircraft got closer to the ground and the fire took greater hold. Anyhow, I pulled the rip cord and came to a jarring stop almost, I suppose. And within a very short period — seconds it seemed, so it probably was that I found myself crashing through the branches of a tree. And I was left swinging with the parachute and the harness stretched out above me spread over the foliage of the branches of the tree.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, I couldn’t touch the ground so I thought well I’ve got to do something. So I twisted the knob on the release on the parachute harness and the straps sort of sprang apart and I was free to drop — which I did. To my surprise I fell about a foot. No more. I mean, if you can imagine.
GR: Yeah.
GM: You pulled the cord and as soon as you were in motion then you stopped.
GR: You were bracing yourself for a bad fall.
GM: Indeed.
GR: And you dropped twelve inches.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Good.
GM: It couldn’t have been more. It was so quick. And so, I got myself out of the tree and dogs were barking around and I could see there was a building close by which I thought, well, sounds like this might be bit of a farm. In that style. I dumped my harness and what have you there. It was largely still attached to the silk of the parachute which was stuck up in the tree and I left it there. It was no good. I wasn’t going to be able to pull it down. It would make too much row in any case. I did try but I gave up when I heard the creaking and the crashing and the scratching on the branches. So, I walked my way down to the, what I thought might be a road and having got through the hedge it proved to be a road going, yes, downhill. Not very steep. So, naturally, I took the road down. I didn’t go up and I found that I was walking, from the observation of the North Star, I found that I was walking more or less in a northerly direction and as I felt then at the moment then that was the wrong way to go ‘cause I would only be walking to a coast.
GR: Was you in France Gordon? Or in Belgium? You know, when you landed.
GM: When I landed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I was in, on the border of Belgium and Holland.
GR: Belgium and Holland. Right. Yeah.
GM: So, it was about as far as where you could get without being in Germany I suppose.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, anyhow, I thought well it’s no good staying here. You’ve got to find somewhere to hide for daylight and it was still before midnight. So, I walked off and having made the discovery that I was heading to the north I turned on the first immediate turning and went up a road to the west and I did see where the aircraft had crashed. Having been left. So, I thought —right, well south is going to be over that way so I went that way and continued to do so for the rest of the night.
GR: So, you walked through the night.
GM: Yeah. I don’t know how many miles I travelled.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I walked through the odd village certainly.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the odd dog did bark.
GR: So, in the morning as the light’s coming up did you meet anybody or decide you had to get some sleep?
GM: Yeah, well I was still on the road. I was going, from my observations, then I realised I was no longer travelling to the south. I was travelling to the, what’s, south, east, west —
GR: West.
GM: I was travelling to the west along the road and I thought well there’s houses there. I wonder what is around the back somewhere. It was beginning to get light so, I turned off the road into a field path. And eventually I found a copse on the farm and I got myself in and got in to the undergrowth so that I was hidden although there was a road close by. Or a path of some sort close by. And went to sleep. I woke up mid-morning or thereabouts and I could hear people moving about in the field and I found I was in this copse on the side of a rise and there was men working above me in the field there and there was people passing along the road which was in front of this copse in which I was hiding. So, I just kept out of sight as best I could for the morning. The same in the afternoon. I examined what I’d got in my pockets which was edible. There wasn’t much. A few little bits of chocolate and what have you and I stayed there until the farm began to close down for the night and the light was well on its way to disappearing. Leaving it dark. So I just got up and I’d seen the traffic in the roads close by so I went, turned around, turned across the grass that wasn’t very long. Yes, it was grass of the field. Went through the hedge and down the road. Heading more or less in a southerly direction. And I proceeded where the road was going west and south and I took a variety of roads passing through whatever built up areas there were. And there were a few villages. Not big. That one could walk through.
GR: So, did you walk through the night again?
GM: Oh yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. I walked through the night. In the early part of the night when I went past a group of houses very often there was a coffee shop or a beer place or whatever it was where people had gathered for their evening’s entertainment. I was being tempted to go and find out whether there was any help there but I resisted that and carried on until I had to find another hiding place on the following morning. And this was repeated. Staying hidden as best as possible in the hiding place which I’d chosen in the dark actually. And as soon as it got anywhere near dark I was on my way.
GR: How long did you do this for before you came into contact with anybody?
GM: Well I saw people. People came.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Did come fairly close to me without seeing me.
GR: Yeah.
GM: When I was hidden in the bushes and things like that. I think it was about the fifth day.
GR: Fifth day.
GM: Fourth or fifth day and I —
GR: And did somebody approach you or did you approach them?
GM: No. No. What happened was I’d been staying in the middle of a village. In the bombed house. Or an empty house anyhow. It wasn’t in very good nick. I imagined from what I could see that it was a bombed-like. During the daytime there in this particular place the shops across the road and on either side and what have you was, were mixed. In some cases, there were shops and there was living quarters there as well. Houses and flats. And people were going about their normal daily business.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I, up on the first floor occasionally poked my head up and looked out of the windows and I could see these people dressed normally and carrying shopping bags and things like that and they went. They went. The scariest part of it was at lunchtime the kids were out of school and I don’t know whether they had their lunches at school or whether they had them at home but there was a number of them about and two or three of them came into the house in which I was on the first floor. And they messed around a bit as kids do in an empty place and they started coming up the stairs and then something happened. I don’t know what happened but it took their attention. Perhaps their playtime had gone and they didn’t get right up to the top of the stairs so, I was left on the first floor there unmolested. And I just stayed on there until it started to get dark. I can’t tell you what time it was that it got dark but this was October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: So, evenings were getting dark fairly early and the number of people out on the street of course diminished as soon as it came what would have been, in the old days, lighting up time.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the streets became largely vacant so I took a chance. Went downstairs and got the general direction in my own mind to go south and west and I got out of the old bombed house on to the main road. I just walked through. Eventually I got out of the town and I took where my fancy took me. In actual fact, I was aware of what the countryside was like and whether I was on open ground or whether I was passing through places where there was copses of trees and what have you but I stayed on the road as much as possible. It was easy walking.
GR: Yeah.
GM: That’s what I did. And I had to find, at the beginning of the next day before it got light I had to find a hiding place each time. And the countryside was quite interesting. It was quite hilly and I did come to a river. Wait a minute. No [pause] I’m not too sure where that was. I certainly came to the odd railway so I had to walk along the ordinary road and went across the railway bridge to get to the other side. There were people about. A bit. But it was as good as being, walking on your own.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah. It was, it was quite good. So, I walked overnight for the first four or five nights and got away with it.
GR: Got away with it. So again, when did you meet somebody or how did you meet somebody —
GM: Yeah.
GR: Who was involved with either the resistance or helpers?
GM: Well, I stayed in one town as I say.
GR: Yeah.
GM: I think that was probably the last one. Anyhow, I walked from that last town and eventually having sort of just taken the general south-westerly direction I found myself in fairly open country and of course it had started to rain. It had been dry all the time previously. And I got pretty wet. Ok. What do I do now? And it was no good sort of getting under a tree or anything like that.
GR: No.
GM: ‘Cause the summer foliage was disappearing fast and the branches were fairly clear of leaves. So, I thought well I’ll have to go back to the old place where I’d stayed the previous night which was a bit of a problem because it was some miles. Anyhow, I did go back and I came into a village and you needed a map because it affects the story to a certain extent. Anyhow, I got, I passed one of the villages which I’d come through and I saw a house on the other side of the road. There were houses around.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
GM: And I was walking down the main street. There was nobody about and looking across the road I could see there was a light in this house. It was surprising because most of the lighting was so subdued that you really couldn’t make any use of it. In any case it would have given one’s position away quite easily. Anyhow, I was in the middle of this village and I was quite amazed to see so much light from it. Anyhow, that was only for a short while but the house was still there and I thought there’s somebody obviously living there. And it took me some time to make up my mind but I thought I’m soaking wet.
GR: Wet, tired and hungry.
GM: Indeed. Indeed. Greater pusher to making up your mind.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And so, I went and knocked on the front door and there was no response from the door but the window flung out from the first floor. And just one question, ‘qui est la?’ Who is there? So, I tried to explain my position to this face up at the window. And I don’t know what he said but obviously sort of —wait. So, I just stood there and I heard him thundering downstairs so he’d still got his shoes on and this was about 8 o’clock in the evening I suppose. From my general recollection. And the door was flung open. And I think I said something rather crass like, ‘Je suis Anglais,’ or something like that. And he looked me up and down. Didn’t say anything. Just beckoned me in.
GR: Just beckoned you in.
GM: And I then followed him into a back room and he put the lights on. He gave me a good looking over and his wife then came downstairs. Whether they’d been going to bed or whether they’d got an upstairs room I don’t know. And so there we were. They sort of, I think they started to dry me off to a certain extent and they also had a, what we call a boiler, a solid fuel fire of sorts.
GR: Yeah. Fire.
GM: And so I’m sort of sat close by to that and his wife, as I say, came down and I tried to explain who I was. I showed them my uniform and the flying and the badge and they were very friendly. Anyhow, it wasn’t long before there was a knock on the door and in came a local priest. So, they’d got a message through to him pretty smartish. Mind you it was — the timing was such that it was now in time which nobody should be about except those who were in authority.
GR: Yeah. Curfew.
GM: There was a curfew.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And this man was the local priest. He’d got some English. He’d got a good lot of English. Anyhow, he understood what was what and his main words that he said was, ‘You come with me.’ So, I thought, well, ‘Great. And by that time the rain had finished and it was dry outside. Well I say dry. It wasn’t raining.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And having thanked the man and his wife for the help I came away with the priest and went and stayed at his establishment which was some walk away. And he was living there with his housekeeper and she was still up so it couldn’t have been so very late. So, she just sort of said hello, so to speak, and accepted that I was one of the opposition to the Germans. They had me in there and I don’t know — they gave me a drink I think. I don’t know whether it was hot or cold now. And a bed. That was the first bed I’d been in for some time. it was typical continental.
GR: Yeah.
GM: One of these great puffed up ones.
GR: It was a bed.
GM: It was a bed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And it was in the warm. In the dry. And they were friends.
GR: And did you find out later were they part of the resistance or were they just somebody — did they put you in —?
GM: Oh, they were in the know.
GR: They were in the know.
GM: They were in the know. How active they were I don’t know but they certainly —
GR: You wouldn’t have known at the time but obviously you were at the beginning of the Comete line.
GM: Yes.
GR: To be passed all the way down.
GM: It may not have been actual Comete people but people who were associated with them.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And yes, I was then [pause] I made the contacts and went on and eventually with the result that I got in with Comete but it was no joyride having found them.
GR: No. No.
GM: As a matter of fact it was downright dangerous in places.
GR: Yeah. Because at the time I presume the Germans knew that something was, they knew airmen were getting down.
GM: Oh yes.
GR: They would have known of an existence of some sort of resistance movement moving them. How, can you remember how long you were actually from being shot down to getting through the Pyrenees how long were you —?
GM: Oh, three weeks or thereabouts.
GR: Three weeks.
GM: Yeah. Yes.
GR: And obviously you and your helpers would have been living on your wits all the time. Like you said it was dangerous.
GM: Yes, well I eventually —
GR: Probably more dangerous for the helpers.
GM: Oh certainly.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Certainly. Yes.
GR: As long as you still had your RAF dog tags you had some sort of security.
GM: Yes. Yes indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I did take other badges and things off so there was nothing to show for it. And then of course, the priest lent me one of his overall coats. I don’t know whether — he wasn’t as big as me but, so where he got the coat I don’t know but it certainly fitted really well. And I eventually got through to Brussels. From Brussels I got through to Paris. I got from Paris down to St Jean de Luz and from there through the Pyrenees. That was a long run. I don’t know how many miles. Thirty odd. And the —
GR: And this would have been the end of October. Probably the beginning of November.
GM: Yes.
GR: So winter was on its way.
GM: It was the end of October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was —I got down to the Pyrenees. I think it was the 19th of October. And got across and I then went down. Yes. Yes I eventually got down to — what’s the capital of Spain?
GR: Madrid.
GM: Madrid.
GR: Madrid.
GM: Yes. Eventually they, on the grapevine, they were told in Madrid that I was up there on their side of the border and so they sent a car up to take me down to the British embassy.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And arrangements were then made and we went from the embassy two or three days later and we then finished up in Gibraltar and they sort of were pretty careful about finding out you were on the level.
GR: Yes.
GM: And so, I then went down to the Rock of Gibraltar and eventually, a couple of days later I flew to the UK.
GR: So, you flew back. You didn’t — yeah.
GM: Yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And that was [pause] how many days are there in October? Thirty one.
GR: Thirty one.
GM: Well that was the night of the 31st of October and we landed down in Cornwall to book in and do whatever official things had to be done and then we were flown up to, now, an aerodrome near London.
GR: Croydon.
GM: No.
GR: Not Hendon.
GM: No. No.
GR: Uxbridge.
GM: No. Further out.
GR: Northolt.
GM: Further out. Anyhow —
GR: Yeah.
GM: We got a train in.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And reported in to whatever place it was. Up in town. Yes.
GR: And then I presume —
GM: I’m sorry. This is getting a bit —
GR: No. Gordon it isn’t and your memory’s very very good. And I presume you were then debriefed.
GM: We came up. We landed in the UK and then we, then came in to, towards central London.
GR: Yeah.
GM: We then, I was with other people. Then there was three, I think, of us. We hadn’t been in our escapes with each other at all. It was just whoever was [pause] happened to be, due to come, return back to the UK.
GR: Yes.
GM: On that particular day. Anyhow, as I say we landed on the first of November and we got, we then, with several hiccups we got up to London and Baker Street. It was a hotel which is still there.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And went in. And it had been taken over by the air force, and booked in and in the next couple of minutes we were asked a question. The question is, ‘Where do you live?’ And I said, ‘Well, my family live in Wembley’. He said, ‘That’s just down the road by train.’ So he said, ‘Right. You can go home tonight.’ So, I don’t know what — oh they gave me a pass, I think. Travel. Yeah. Anyhow, I got on the train in Baker Street along through to Wembley Central and I walked down the old road. The estate. Sort of. Which had been there for quite some time and I turned down the road, our road —Douglas Avenue after travelling down the Ealing Road which does lead one to Ealing still and I banged on the front door. Gave my mother nearly a heart attack I think. She already knew I was ok.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And so, I went in and I was home. And the 1st of November is my birthday.
GR: So, you was home for your birthday.
GM: Indeed. Well, the last couple of hours of it.
GR: So from taking off you spent what, four weeks. Got back four weeks later.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. About the 4th or the 5th of October.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I walked into home. Thousands of miles away I suppose you could say.
GR: Round trip.
GM: Round trip.
GR: A wonderful birthday present.
GM: Indeed.
GR: Going back to the crew, Gordon.
GM: Yes.
GR: If you don’t mind. I know your rear gunner didn’t make it.
GM: No. He didn’t.
GR: The other five members. Did they evade or were they taken prisoner of war?
GM: No. They were — those that were injured —
GR: Yeah.
GM: Were taken to hospital and they then became POWs.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And the others who were just banged about a bit the same as myself —
GR: Yeah.
GM: They were taken prisoner.
GR: They were taken prisoner as well. Yeah. So out of the crew you were the only one who managed to get back.
GM: Indeed. Indeed.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a great pity but —
GR: And the rest of them had to wait until 1945.
GM: I’m afraid so.
GR: Yeah. So what happened to you Gordon? After you were back and you’d had your leave and obviously the end of the war would have been still two years away.
GM: Oh yes this was, what, ‘42 .
GR: ’42. Yeah. So —
GM: Running into ‘43. Yeah. I had Christmas at home.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yeah.
GR: ‘Cause I know they had a rule about not letting you fly again or fly over.
GM: It depended on your experience I think.
GR: Yeah.
GM: But I had, in actual fact, in that four weeks and I’d got to know the identity of a lot of people.
GR: Yeah. Which was good.
GM: So, there was no question of going back on ops again.
GR: No. So did you, what did you actually do for those two years. Did you —
GM: Oh. Well, yes, after the interrogation, the next day.
GR: Yeah.
GM: After I’d been home I had to go back to this old hotel at Baker Street and went through the debriefing and they said, ‘What do you want to do?’ So, I said, ‘Well I would like to do SN course in navigation.’ Staff navigator. And so they said, ‘Well, that’s alright. We can fix that.’ And sure enough they did. I was posted away from London to Cheltenham. The aerodrome at Cheltenham. Or nearby. And I was on the staff there as an instructor until July ‘43. That’s right. July ‘43 and in that time, I was an instructor in —
GR: Navigation.
GM: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And I then took the advanced course which was very interesting.
GR: Yeah.
GM: It was a good course. And I then was posted, after that, to [pause] now where did I go to?
GR: Again, as an instructor or —
GM: Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Yes. Yes. I was posted up to Scotland. That’s right. And strangely the place where I got posted to was Wigtown.
GR: Wigtown. Yeah. I know Wigtown.
GM: And the chap I was working, that I was sent up to work with was Len [unclear] he was a flight [unclear] officer. Flight lieutenant.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Was he? Yeah. He was flight lieutenant. He was, certainly he was a regular officer and navigation specialist so I worked with him to start with and, well it all turned out very well.
GR: Yeah.
GM: Finishing up, as you say, as a flight lieutenant.
GR: Yeah. And so, I’ll pull to a close. Where was you on VE day? So 8th of May 1945. Was you still up in Scotland instructing? Where was you when you were told the war had finished?
GM: 8th of May.
GR: 1945.
GM: ‘45. I was at Wigtown.
GR: You were still up in Wigtown in Scotland. Yeah.
GM: Yes. I stayed on with the flying training. Still continued.
GR: Yeah.
GM: The air force didn’t suddenly sort of pack it all in and go home. It carried on very much as it had before. And eventually they were closing down the advanced, was it the Advanced Navigation School?
GR: Yeah.
GM: Something. Anyhow, the camp was going to be decommissioned by the sounds of things until something else was found for it to be used for and we came down south and I [pause] There was somebody who was the nav senior instructor who I’d known and met and he put a request in, I think. For me to go to where he was.
GR: Yeah. And obviously by the time you finished your service in the Royal Air Force.
GM: Yeah.
GR: You came back to Wembley.
GM: Yes. Indeed.
GR: And this house we’re sat in. How long have you lived here now Gordon?
GM: Oh, about forty five, forty six years.
GR: Forty five. Yeah. Yeah.
GM: And we had another house before this for twelve years.
GR: Yeah.
GM: The other side of Wembley.
GR: Yeah.
GM: And on the same road as where my parents lived and where I grew up.
GR: So apart from a six year sojourn in the Royal Air Force.
GM: I’ve lived in Wembley.
GR: You’re here in Wembley and we’re still in Wembley.
GM: Yeah.
GR: And I have to say, Gordon. I really appreciate what you’ve just talked about. It was absolutely wonderful. Thank you.
GM: I’m sorry to not be —
GR: Do not say sorry.
GM: More.
GR: No. I mean I —
GM: I haven’t thought about some parts of this at all.
GR: Yeah. I mean I knew your story obviously from past experiences and some of the books you’ve appeared in. And I know you’ve got your book coming out in September which is going to be eagerly awaited. But no —that was wonderful. Thank you.
GM: Oh well, you’re very kind.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Gordon Mellor. Two
Creator
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Gary Rushbrooke
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-27
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMellorG160627
Conforms To
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Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Gordon Mellor grew up in London and was interested in aviation. He volunteered for the Air Force and trained as a navigator in Canada. On his return to the UK he and his crew were posted to 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds and his first operation was the thousand bomber operation against Cologne. On his eighteenth operation they were attacked by a night fighter. Gordon baled out and landed in a tree. When he had freed himself and landed on the ground, he set off to walk, by tracking the North Star, towards the general direction of Spain. He hid in a number of places during the daylight until after a few days he was inspired to knock on a door. He found he was in Belgium with people who started the process that would lead to him being escorted through an escape line from Belgium to Paris and then through the Pyrenees to Spain. He was taken to Gibraltar and flown home. After debriefing he was told he could go home and he knocked on his own home door on his birthday four weeks after his escape and evasion began.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Canada
Gibraltar
Great Britain
Spain
England--Lincolnshire
France--Paris
France
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1942-10-04
1942-11-01
1945
Format
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01:09:16 audio recording
103 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
briefing
de Jongh, Andree (1916 - 2007)
debriefing
evading
Halifax
navigator
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Wigtown
Resistance
shot down
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/553/8819/PMellorG1501.2.jpg
ec53d3c84b8db787d307d49e498fe698
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/553/8819/AMellorGH160817.1.mp3
35ebeb2be6c6e7e0510e47aa5e5abf1d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mellor, Gordon
Gordon Herbert Mellor
G H Mellor
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mellor, G
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with Gordon Mellor (1919 -2018, 929433, 172802 Royal Air Force). He trained in Canada as an observer and served as a navigator with 103 Squadron. He was shot down over Holland in 1942 but evaded capture.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-06
2016-06-07
2016-08-17
2016-08-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: Let me just start off with the introduction.
GM: Sort of introduce the -
CB: I’ll start you off.
GM: Order.
CB: Yeah. I’ll start you off.
GM: Yeah. Yes.
CB: Ok. My name is Chris Brock bank and today is the 17th of August 2016. I’m with Gordon Mellor in Wembley and we’re going to talk about his life and times in the RAF and afterwards. So, Gordon, in practical terms, what do you remember about your earliest days?
GM: My earliest days were, shall we say, from birth to five years old and I do still have a firm memory at the, at the age of two, two years of falling down in some land behind our house and breaking a leg so I was sort of done up with plaster and what have you for some little time at that early age. The rest of the youth was, I should say, ordinary. I went to a local council school and stayed there for quite some years. This was a convenient house, convenient to our house of about seven or eight minutes’ walk so that I have in actual fact spent most of my lifetime in this area which is known worldwide as Wembley. Following the days at the council school that I first mentioned I was not a success on what was commonly known as the eleven plus but I seemed to pick up speed and I successfully entered the excellent technical college where the main subject matter was related to engineering and I must have stayed there nearly three years at that particular place. Then I made great friends with a man, well he wasn’t a man he was a boy like myself but his name was Kenneth Clarke. I mention him because he was, has always been until recent years quite a prominent member of my friends. When I was close to seventeen then I got itchy feet I suppose and I wanted to get out to work rather than spend the last three or four months in school so I looked around and obviously I needed to have some strong ideas about employment and also on subject matter. I decided that I didn’t want to just be a clerk in an office or an engineer of the varying quality so I decided that I would take a job to start with and for the first couple of years of being at work then I was connected with the estate agents and property subject matter and after that I then became a little more concentrated on surveying and I changed direction away from property valuation and the like and became the chartered quantity surveyor. The charter didn’t come until after the national service which will come to light in due course. For this purpose I scouted around and took one or two approaches to surveyors and eventually I picked up what I thought was a suitable proposition and by that time I suppose I was getting near to eighteen, nineteen and I found this particular work to be of interest so I then took classes in, at evening time and I was in this situation taking the class at London Polytechnic. Oh goodness me I’ve forgotten the name of the place. It’s top of Regent Street, near Charing Cross, not Charing Cross.
CB: New Oxford Street.
GM: Oxford Street. Yes. Just north of Oxford Street. So and I I found it interesting and there was a wide range of matter to become familiar with so this then certainly brought me to the period I would say was 1937/38 and the international situation indicated that there was going to be quite a conflict. The only question to my mind and a lot of other people was when? How soon would it be? Well we did find out. 1939, and the entry in to the armed forces as a, shall we say, can’t call it a pastime but it became of interest and we tried to get into the volunteer reserve. Well as I was looking for quite a high qualification in, I was doing anything from four to five evening classes a week at Regent Street Polytechnic. Anyhow, time passed and we found in September 1939 that war was forced upon us and I hadn’t been successful in getting into the volunteer reserve. I’d been doing a day’s job and most of my spare time was in study and the like. So it wasn’t until calling up papers came in the beginning of 1940 that I was brought into the services. The air force had a strong representation in aerodromes around North London. Northwest London. Hendon obviously was one of them and I had tried to extend my knowledge of the air force as, just as a matter of relaxation so when the calling up papers came and I had volunteered for the RAF and in view of my familiar approach to maps and charts and things like that I applied for service in the RAF. Much to my delight we were going to have to do something we might as well l do something that was a principal interest so I joined the RAF as an AC2 as I think most people did unless you were a university graduate or the like and this was in the early days of 1940. Well, I, how far do you want me to go on?
CB: Keep going. That’s fine.
GM: We’re alright are we?
CB: Yeah. Very good.
GM: Ok. I was, oh my goodness me, where were we going, oh yes I was called up to Uxbridge depot and I spent the first week there, joined with about forty, I would say, about forty other youngsters. I wouldn’t say that everyone was a youngster. There was quite some mature men who were also being called up and having gone through the initiation and the approaches to a service life we were then posted up to a discipline, sorry -
CB: Initial Training Wing.
GM: Indeed. Initial Training Wing. That is the correct name of course and we found that it all, it went well on the whole and we came through the first three months and there was still no sign of being posted elsewhere so we had the traditional seven days leave until we came back and all in all we saved an extra few weeks before there was a vacancy for another training course and we were posted. This was an initial training wing and we survived the entrance and the doings and also we were useful in doing odd jobs when we were given the opportunity to train for a post as navigators in Canada. So having had an introduction to navigation in this way we were posted up north to a depot on the coast and from there in Scotland we got onto a boat which was not much more than a cross channel ferry and we went up to Iceland, stayed on the boat and then transferred immediately to a much larger vessel. I used to be able to quote the name of the boat, maybe it will come to mind in a minute but we put, went from Reykjavik in Iceland across to Canada and on the way there we were accompanied by a number of other boats and although we were going quite fast then certainly it wasn’t for the slower vessel at all. It was quite a quick trip. We landed on the east coast of Canada and in no time we were being marshalled off of the ferry boat and I used to be able to -
[Machine stopped]
CB: No. No. That’s fine. It’s my way of just covering it then. So we’re restarting now and we’re in Canada.
GM: Yes.
CB: Just going back a step.
GM: Yes.
CB: So the intriguing thing is the number of places that were training and some were slightly different but you went to Port Albert.
GM: That’s right.
CB: Which is on the Lakes.
GM: Yes. Yes.
CB: So what did you actually do when you were there? How did the course go?
GM: Well it was a mixture of navigation instruction and as that progressed so we did flying exercises which followed the increased knowledge that you gained in the classroom.
CB: Right.
GM: So we were still having lectures on navigation problems and requirements at the end of the first three months much in the same method of training as we were at the beginning of that period. It was the subject matter that improved.
CB: Right.
GM: Then we had the period after that of several weeks and then we were posted to the bombing and gunnery school.
CB: So when you were doing the navigation training, you’re at Port Albert.
GM: Yes.
CB: What’s, what’s the geography like there? Are we in the prairies or are we in a built up sort of area.
GM: We were in Ontario.
CB: Yes.
GM: Which is a major farming area I would have said. It was, we were about twelve miles out of the town of, I think it was Goderich.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And there we learned the techniques and what have you and flying from the, that aerodrome we put what we had learned in the classroom, so to speak, into practice.
CB: Yeah.
GM: In the Ansons which were -
CB: You were in Ansons. Ok
GM: Available. The class was split into groups of twos and I think there was somewhere around about twenty four of us in groups of two all flying in the, at the same time so it looks, rather looks as though we had something like twelve aircraft allocated to half days so to speak. There was a course flew in the mornings and one in the afternoons. And later on of course then we had night time flying as well.
CB: Ok. And when you went to gunnery what were you flying there? How did they run that?
GM: Yes. We had Fairey Battles and still two people in the gunnery position. One chap at the back with the, sort of, fire power and the back towards the back of the plane towards the tail and the second pupil, if I can call us that, the second pupil was stuck on the seat in the fuselage so he didn’t get much to see during that exercise except down below and it was mainly map reading and exercises such as that.
CB: Because this is a three crew aeroplane.
GM: Yes.
CB: And you could change over could you? The roles in the air.
GM: Oh the navigator and, the two navigator’s, yes they could swap over. There wasn’t a lot of room in the plane but certainly the gunnery position as you remember it was the back of the compartment which the navigators occupied was sealed, it wasn’t exactly sealed but it was shut off from the pilot’s position. You couldn’t pass from one, from the front to the back of the aircraft. The pilot had sole use of the front half of the aircraft and the two trainees were in the back half and I thought there was a radio operator on there as part of the permanent crew. Same as the pilot was.
CB: Ok. And what did the gunnery training comprise?
GM: Oh mostly machine gun fire on a target being towed by another aircraft and there was, yes, there was that and this is so long ago and I haven’t really talked about it for a long time. Yes. Certainly the two trainees they each got a spell on each flight so that the time wasn’t wasted at all. You were either doing the exercises which were laid out to be done from the rear gunner’s position or you were map reading or other sort of interesting exercises looking down through the bomb, sort of window, I don’t know, hatch I suppose you would call it which was patent glazed, not patent glazing it was a glazed opening and I think in normal times it was, you could lift it and get into the aircraft in that position.
CB: Ok. So you’ve got two people who are learning gunnery in the plane.
GM: Yes.
CB: They hit the target. How do you know who has shot what?
GM: That’s a good question. They, they must have had a means of telling either the first or the second amount of gunnery which was being tested so -
CB: Was it coloured ammunition?
GM: Well that was hovering in the back of my mind but I’m not oversure.
CB: Ok.
GM: I thought, I seem to remember on occasions we did have coloured ammunition but I can’t be sure that it was at the early part of your gunnery training at all.
CB: Because the plane was only towing one target.
GM: Exactly, no the plane, the other plane was -
CB: Yes.
GM: Tow, perhaps there was a non-identifiable and perhaps there was also another half which was indicated in some way. I should imagine it was sort of a paint arrangement that –
CB: So the course you were on is the observer course in those days.
GM: Yes, yes.
CB: The third aspect of what you were doing was bomb aiming so how was that done and in what aircraft?
GM: To my mind it was a bombing and gunnery course so that one was sort of mentally passed over to the people who specialised in bomb aiming and there was a certain amount of exercising and also [jockeying?] the targets. How they separated it out is a good question because I can’t, I haven’t got the, I shall have to look it up.
CB: Well we can come back to that.
GM: Yes.
CB: So –
GM: I’m sorry but there are now a number of details which have now -
CB: Yeah.
GM: Slipped my memory.
CB: That’s ok. So we’re in 1941.
GM: Yeah.
CB: You went out there in April.
GM: Thereabouts.
CB: You were there during the summer. How many months were you doing that training?
GM: April. So including the toing and froing?
CB: Yeah.
GM: So April. April, May, June, July, August, September, October. That’s about it yeah. Seven months.
CB: Ok. And at the end of -
GM: We had a visit by the New Zealand premier. Not that that’s of any particular significance other than the fact that we did get a visit.
CB: Because they were training New Zealanders as well.
GM: Well he was on a diplomatic tour of something and it was just one day that he came to Port Albert and for whatever it was and he, yes he chatted with us and what have you, it was quite interesting.
CB: At what stage were you presented with your observer’s brevvy? Flying badge.
GM: Oh what a good question. I can remember that. Now the question is what stage? [pause] I should have done some homework on this.
CB: This was before you returned to Britain was it?
GM: Oh yes. Oh yes. Yes. That was immediately before we left. We had the parade and we all got our wings. Most of us had the second uniform suitably fitted out with the, with the badges and we left the same afternoon so it was right at the end of the visit. Of course we left that evening, went to, started on our way back and as long, they didn’t want to know where we were going or anything like that except that they gave us a date to be at the port on the Atlantic coast so that we were travelling at any old time that suited us and we -
CB: Right.
GM: We were given, let’s see yes I think we were probably given five days or something like that.
CB: Yeah.
GM: To get ourselves from the station where we were got our wings and overnight I think we got ourselves to Toronto. It was a hundred and forty miles. It didn’t take long on the, on the train and of course we were all packed up and ready to go and probably another two or three days calling in at Montreal and returning to the Canadian port.
CB: Halifax, Nova Scotia.
GM: Halifax. Was it?
CB: Was it?
GM: I should have got myself a map out.
CB: Don’t worry. So you then take the boat via Iceland.
GM: No. No.
CB: You returned.
GM: We came -
CB: No.
GM: Straight back.
CB: Straight back.
GM: Yes.
CB: Ok.
GM: It was only on the outward journey we went to Iceland.
CB: Ok.
GM: So we came back and -
CB: Then what?
GM: Having landed in the UK we then transferred from the boat to a train and we were taken down to Bournemouth. There was a reception centre there and we then started the familiarisation of being with the RAF and not with the Canadian Air Force. There were differences.
CB: Because you’d been fair weather flyers in Canada. Now you were -
GM: Indeed.
CB: Coming to be foul weather flyers in the UK.
GM: Well certainly the weather was more, shall we say, a part of our daily life in Canada the weather was consistently good. There’s no doubt about that and, it wasn’t all that bad in this country but certainly it was, had to be watched and of course it got colder. It was much further north in Ontario which was south of us yes. And that was a different feeling about the whole thing. It was, you were getting near to being or realising that there was a war going on. In Canada it was like peacetime and back home then of course as soon as you were given leave then you returned home and many of us came from London area and of course we experienced the air raids. That was just part of it. From that reception centre and the familiarisation with English service we were posted to the Operational Training Units and as far as I was concerned that was at Lichfield and I won’t say everyone who had been with us in Canada was on that posting but certainly a fair number of us were so we were maintaining the same contacts as we had for quite some time which was very useful. The visit, as I say, to Lichfield was interesting. The familiarisation with the weather conditions was certainly on our minds far more than it had been under the rather stable conditions of Canada and of course when you did get leave you could go home, be with the family which was a great asset. The training at Lichfield lasted a fair time. Some, some months. It got extended. Now it’s here it was all much more serious in our, in our minds. I mean the next stage was to be as a squadron so it was essential that you got as much experience as you could while you were still in a training situation.
CB: What was the first thing you did when you got to Lichfield?
[pause]
GM: I think it was normal reception procedure. We had quite a pleasant reception on returning to this country and to go down to Bournemouth but you went up to this place and we were on for a fortnight or maybe for three weeks we were not on the main station but we were in the familiarisation situation and as the accommodation became available in the, training establishment which we would occupy for a month or two at OTU. The weather was a bit of shock I admit. It certainly was a lot cooler and flying in the blackout was an entirely new venture as far as we were concerned. We certainly had to get used to that through the winter of course. Then it doesn’t get light until what half past seven getting towards 8 o’clock and certainly it got dark in late afternoon. Five, 6 o’clock at the most so it rather altered our lifestyle but it was good to get into the area where things were beginning to happen and we recovered our enthusiasm I think. After that first two or three weeks we were then posted on to the main station at Lichfield and we then started flying.
CB: Ok let me just interrupt a mo. So you arrive on your own but to fly you have to be in a crew so how did that work?
GM: Ah. This is the point we were, came from various places and we had a period, some of this period was on the earlier three weeks and you just lived with the other youngsters, they were, and we sorted ourselves out into crews so that you’d found some likeness in your thinking and in your, the type of youngster that was there and the crews came together sort of voluntarily. It didn’t always work and you had to make changes providing the instructors there had decided that it was better if you worked with somebody else. So it was mostly a voluntary crewing up I would say and where there was a need for, to get a move on so to speak if you didn’t crew up voluntarily which started usually with the pilots. There were two pilots if I remember rightly and a navigator and then of course, as it was Wellingtons then, we had a couple of gunners and the bomb expert. So that was a rather peculiar setting as we had a bomb aimer as well. There were two of us who were capable of carrying on with that role but we sorted ourselves out and the course progressed and as a crew then you started taking some of your spare time together and, or all of it just depending on how you hit it off and the crews gradually gelled into a working unit. I don’t recall in my particular connection whether there was anybody who couldn’t work with their opposite number.
CB: So when you were on the OTU what were the main tasks preparing you for the next stage?
GM: Well there was the conversion of course from the aircraft that we’d used in the States, not the States, in Canada and pilots were having to do what was necessary and instead of flying Ansons then they were having to change onto Wellingtons which was quite a difference I understand but as far as the navigators were concerned whilst the pilots were doing their conversion then we were flying. I suppose it took about a fortnight, three weeks we were flying Ansons and doing navigation exercises. Of course the British countryside and the British weather and the like whilst the pilots were converting on to the bigger and heavier aircraft.
CB: So you’re all in the Wellington. You finished the OTU. Then what?
GM: We had a bit of trouble with a crash. Whilst we were at Lichfield yes we took off for a morning exercise, the power units started giving the pilots trouble so we converted er completed the approach to the circuit and we were on the way towards the aerodrome on this first, I’d better just start that again. This was a particular period after the training and we took off and the idea was to fly around and go over the aerodrome. That was your start of the exercise so you noticed the time and the details and you went off to do the exercise but in this case we got half way around on the first circuit and we started to get in to trouble with the engines and we couldn’t maintain height so before completing that circuit where you note the time and set off on the exercise as we approached that part of the flight then we lost height rather drastically and we made a wheeled up on approach, crossed over the railway line and a station and lobbed down into the fields on the east side of the railway and buckled the plane up and the pilot was injured so we he was carted off to hospital and the rest of us, who were in the crash positions when we hit the ground, got a few bruises and a shake up and we’d lost our pilot. So we then had a short period and a new chap, Australian, as all those particular pilots were. Another Australian to be the first pilot. So we changed crew a bit and that was that. We survived, survived the crash. Two or three day’s leave. Probably it was a week. I don’t really remember now but we had a short period off and when we came back then we were then reintroduced to the training and we continued until we got to the end. At the end of that particular training then we did a first flight to Germany and back as an introduction I suppose to what it was going to be like. We had a, yes a satisfactory introduction ourselves with the new pilot and we were quite happy as it went. The other chap, who was the Australian, Don Jennings, he was off, I think he had a broken leg. I wasn’t sure but because he got out of the plane and he got a few yards from the nose of the aircraft and he collapsed. I think he’d got a broken leg but I can’t swear to that. Then we were posted having satisfactorily done our first visit over enemy territory and went on leave and we didn’t get our actual place of posting to, at that time. I think it came by letter. I can’t be sure. It’s a detail that doesn’t matter but we were posted as a crew. I’m not even sure whether anybody else was posted with us. We were posted to Elsham Wolds.
CB: Didn’t you go to the Heavy Conversion Unit first?
GM: No. Not, not to my knowledge and this was, this was in early ’42.
CB: There weren’t any.
GM: There weren’t any.
CB: No.
GM: As such.
CB: Right. Ok. So straight to the squadron. What was the squadron?
GM: 103.
CB: And what were you flying?
GM: Wellingtons. 1Cs.
CB: Ok. Yeah.
GM: We were, as a crew given, so to speak, to an experienced pilot there who was already there and got a number of trips under his belt and we then started flying together and getting used to each other’s abilities and moods I suppose. The, we did a bit of flying for a short period and then we were put on our first trip which was a thousand raid on Cologne. We went on all the thousand raids.
CB: Ok. So what was that like?
GM: Spectacular. On sort of a, I mean a thousand aircraft and they got everybody over in about ninety minutes. I think that was, I can’t quote you for sure about this. That’s the general impression that I received. We did two. Was it? And then there was, there was a break and then we did, I think there was a third one but that’s just a detail that doesn’t really matter. And then it was time to be posted and we said, ‘It starts now.’ Yeah. So, and the -
CB: So how many raids, how many operations did you do from, with that, with 103 from Elsham Wolds?
GM: Seventeen but after we’d done ten then we changed aircraft to Halifax. Four engines. I didn’t fly Lancasters at all.
[pause]
CB: Let’s stop.
GM: We went -
CB: No carry on, go on.
GM: We were allocated to an experience pilot of course when we got there and so we had two pilots. Like us the trainee who we hoped we were beyond that stage by now and also a chap who’d been with the squadron for some time so that your early flights were all done with somebody who knew the score so to speak. Essential. Anyhow, the period we started flying seriously of course was, as I say, with the first thousand bomber raids which were oh about a third of the year away in 1942 and we converted on to Wellingtons. No. The -
CB: On to the Halifax.
GM: Halifax.
CB: When was that?
GM: That was roundabout July. We were there in time to do the thousand raids and our score trips was around about ten I would imagine when we changed over and we started operating the four-engined aircraft. That took us through September and in to October and on our seventeenth which was in to the Ruhr. Anyhow, that was a disastrous raid as far as we were concerned. We bombed the target, came away from it, we were only about ten thousand feet. We found at that time between ten and twelve was moderately safe for our purposes anyhow and on the way out from the target we were found by an ME110 and he just sort of hung on to the back of us about four hundred yards back and so it raises the question well what do you do about it. And so we did. We opened fire with the rear gunner and the mid upper and that didn’t please him at all so he then opened up and his accuracy from his point of view was pretty good. Anyhow, he hit the rear gunner, the bulk of the crew of course were up towards the nose end and the ammunition was zinging around. You could see it, some of it inside the fuselage. How I didn’t get hit I don’t know. Anyhow, we caught fire in the two inboard engines. The outside engines in both cases seemed to survive but we weren’t going to be able to get the fires out. There was no way about that. It was too fierce so the skipper said, ‘Bale out.’ I was in the nose of the aircraft in the navigator’s position and I was sitting on top of the front escape or entry position and skipper said, ‘Everybody out,’ and so I got up from my seat, folded it back, picked up the door or the flap whatever you’d like to call it, the hatch and turned it over and dropped it out of the bottom of the aircraft. Nobody was going to want it so and then with the parachute on I did what they said. Get out. So I sat down with my legs dangling out of the hole and gave myself a push and I slid out. I don’t know what height we were. This all happened very quickly and I fell some distance. Pulled the chute. That was the decision and it seemed a very short time, having just got my legs down that I was crashing through branches of a tree from top downwards and came to a rather ragged halt and swinging there I could hear a dog barking and I was just swinging in the harness. I couldn’t feel how high I was. It was pretty dark. So in the end I turned the parachute harness to the on position if that’s the right way and/or the off perhaps and banged the harness catch, the harness flew away and stayed up in the branches of the tree and I dropped. Fully twelve inches I would say and I was hanging there and in then the next second I got my feet on the ground. Wonderful. Started the dogs barking a bit more. I thought well there’s a farmhouse down there, I’d better get out of the way so I left the parachute and the harness up in the tree. It was probably, what, fifty sixty feet high, seemed to be a very high tree and so somebody got the parachute silk if they managed to get it down. I felt, made my way out of the foliage of the hedge in to the next field and made my way down a slope. A hundred or so yards or so of passing down a field and then I went through a hedge and dropped down on to a road and it fell away to the right so I had a quick look up at the sky and I could see where north was so that told me that’s where the North Sea is and I hadn’t got much of a clue where we were because we’d travelled quite a bit and in the plane as it burned. I went a short distance down the lane there and went past three or four people standing outside of a house and I ignored them. They were watching the raid which was going on in the distance away to the east so I hadn’t travelled very far even though it seemed a long time for us to still be within sight of where the raid was being, taking place. Complete muck up of timing as far as I was concerned but there we are so I continued walking. I was going north and decided that wasn’t a good thing and there was a lane turning off to the left and sort of a rise and so I thought well the only thing to do was to get oneself down south. It’s not going to be any easy to get across the sea around Northern Belgium and, or Denmark or anything like that so I decided that I’d make for Gib. It seemed an incredibly long distance but it seemed the best thing to do so I went up this side road, it rose and when I got to the top of the rather meagre rise I could see that the plane had crashed about a mile, a mile and a half away and it was burning away merrily. I had no idea what had happened to any of the other crew having jumped and been, ’cause I was told to get out of the way so everybody else could get out and I obliged. So anyhow I then decided that I’d have to go to the general area of Spain so I turned south taking my bearings from the stars and set off. I walked all that night. This was only about half past ten in the evening, it was quite an early raid and so I travelled a good few miles. I didn’t meet anybody at all. I travelled on the roads and in some cases I crossed fields and the like and just with the general aim of going in a south-westerly direction. I’d got a compass in my gear and that was it. I walked until the light began to show. In that time I’d done quite a lot of road walking and there was one part of it which went due west so I followed that through and then as it was beginning to show signs of getting light I thought, now to do, what do I do now? Anyhow I was approaching a village and there were field on the right, just ahead of me was village buildings started so I thought well I’d better go around the back so I turned right, went past the property there onto a footpath, followed that around and the light was getting a bit stronger so I thought well I’ve got to had to hide somewhere. So I was dead lucky. I found a farm road and I could tell that there was buildings down the end of it and I thought perhaps that was the farm itself and anyhow the clump of trees with some undergrowth and the road towards what I thought would probably be the farm went past it so I got myself into the clump of trees with the yes with a few thickets growing there and so I was out of sight and I went to sleep. When I woke up I could hear people talking and it was daylight and I carefully sort of took stock of my surroundings and workmen were going, of some sort, were going along the, that approach road that I had spotted and they obviously were farm workers because they seemed to go down to the farm and then they started their working day and there was a, the whole, there was a hillock. Couldn’t have been much more than that as part of where the trees where I was sheltering under was part of that so, and I could hear people working at the top of this rise sort of. I’d say that was it. Then I sort of got here into the trees and there was a rise with the trees in a clump and up on the top there where the actual farmable roads were, farmable fields were then there seemed to be a number of men doing whatever men do on fields in the autumn but I could hear them chatting away and talking and fortunately none of them came into the copse where I was trying to keep myself out of sight and that, so the days lasted and sometime just before it was getting, beginning to get dark then they all knocked off and they went past and went to the farm. Presumably at the end of their working day. So I thought well there’s nothing here for me and I didn’t have much in the way of, I had a bit of chocolate and a couple of toffees or something like that in my pocket so I sort of started off as soon as it was dark and went, followed my general trend in a south westerly direction and this went on for something like four days. Maybe it was five. I don’t know. I lost count somehow or another. I certainly covered some fair old ground in amount and each time as it began to get light then I had to find a hiding place and the most exotic one I suppose was I finished up in the middle of a village. It had got a High Street and had a bombed house there. It was beginning to get light so I took a chance on it and I assumed it was a bombed house. The windows had gone and it looked as if it had suffered some sort of damage. It may well be that it was just bad housekeeping and it had got deteriorated in the normal course of events. Anyhow, I sort of went around to the side entrance of the house and I saw there was a water butt with water coming into it, rain water. So I got my first drink for some time there and whilst I was standing there drinking the water in this tank I heard some footsteps crunch and just down about fifteen, sixteen feet away on the front of the, this house there was a road and somebody in uniform stopped and I could see them looking around and then they started looking up the alleyway where I was standing by the water butt and I froze. And after a couple of minutes he went off. So I thought that’s, that’s not much good. Anyhow, I went into the house and it was dry. I went upstairs and there was no furniture in the house. It was empty and it had been, considering that it was, I thought it might be a bombed house but I didn’t see any other bomb damage perhaps it was just general degrading of the property. Anyhow, I bedded myself down on the first floor in the front bedroom and I’d been up all night walking and what have you so I lay myself down and had a sleep and when I came too I could hear people chatting so I just stayed still where I was. I heard somebody, some boys down below and one of them started coming up the stairs and fortunately he gave it a second thought and went back so he didn’t see me and as it was the school lunchtime period they all disappeared and I was left. I could look out of the window and see people doing their shopping and what have you in the shops close by. I kept myself well down so that I wasn’t spotted at all and eventually lights of some sort began to show and then they had the blackout going of course and once the people had got off the street there didn’t seem to be many people occupying the pavements during the blackout period and I thought, time to go. So I did. I got downstairs, out of the house, there was nobody about much so I just made my way out of the property in the general southwest direction and away we went. Well eventually, I, one of these midnight walks and what have you I got soaking wet in rain and I’d been walking about an hour or so I suppose and so I thought, oh well the best thing I could do is go back to my last place and dry out. I didn’t want to get through anything. I hadn’t got any food so I was rather low mentally on that. Anyhow, I did turn around and started walking back and went through in the return direction, a road that I’d already been along and I saw the property which was showing a light. It shouldn’t have been but it was so I stood on the opposite side of the road and watched the house. There was no movement or anything like that at all so I thought well the rain had stopped and I was beginning to dry off, feeling in a better mood and so I went across, banged on the door and obviously I startled the family and a man put his head out, ‘Qui es la?’ So I thought well my French is no good so I said, ‘RAF. Air force.’ And then I had to repeat that and he got it because he didn’t say anymore just slammed the window, I heard him running, coming downstairs, he opened the door, he looked at me and I showed him a couple of my badges on my uniform. I mean I struck oil. That was the beginning of making contact with the resistance.
CB: I’m going to suggest we stop there for a mo.
[machine paused]
CB: So we’ve got to the stage where the man has left you, let you into his house.
GM: Oh yes. Yes. And his wife came thundering down the stairs to see what was happening. And they were very kind. They were very kind. My language was not very good but we managed to make ourselves understood with each other and they produced some food for which I was infinitely grateful. I’d gone through quite a few days without. And then there was a bang on the door and in walked a local padre and he’d obviously been made well aware of my nationality because he started to speak to me with a few questions in English. I don’t think he got a great deal but enough for us to settle with each other that we were both on the same side and he said, ‘You’re coming with me.’ So I thought, that’s, you know, that’s good and we left the couple who had fed me and watered me and we set off and we walked to the next village and we went into the manse. I suppose that’s the proper name for it. Anyhow, it’s where he lived and worked and I was introduced to his housekeeper. She obviously was used to seeing strange people and she gave me a grin and shook my hand and that was it so I was then sent to bed so to speak and waited. Yes. We come, oh wait a minute. Have we got away from the first house I called in?
CB: The house where they, you called in and he was upstairs and came down and opened -
GM: Yes.
CB: And let you in.
GM: Yes. Let me in and they -
CB: Fed you.
GM: Fed me. That’s right. And the local priest then came and he collected me and we went to his home.
CB: Right.
GM: That’s right. Yes. Well that was temporary. I don’t, I must have stayed there overnight. I think they were, they were a little bit perturbed because they had a young son so they sort of kept me out of sight whilst, before he went to school otherwise it would have been all around and during that period on the following day I had a visit from a lady who was in the business of getting people away under these sort of circumstances and so I was taken to another village and I stayed there for a short while. Subsequently men came and we chatted a bit and I went with him on a train journey. [pause] And where did we get? I’ve lost my thread a bit.
CB: We can stop.
GM: Sorry.
CB: We can stop a mo.
[machine paused]
GM: But I banged on the door.
CB: Yeah.
GM: And they let me in and they fed me and I then went with the local priest.
CB: So you went to his house, you said.
GM: Yes.
CB: And then -
GM: And then, having stayed two nights. Yes. I think we can, stayed two nights.
CB: Ok.
GM: I was taken by, to be honest I don’t know who the bloke was there. No.
[pause]
CB: Well it doesn’t matter -
GM: Anyway.
CB: What his name is. If we can just -
GM: No.
CB: Yeah
GM: After the second night sleep there I was collected and escorted into -
[pause]
GM: I’m getting muddled up now. This is ridiculous.
CB: Let’s just have another break.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Gordon Mellor. Three
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-17
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMellorGH160817
Conforms To
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Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Gordon Mellor grew up in London and hoped to become a quantity surveyor when he was called up. He volunteered for the Air Force and trained as a navigator in Canada. On his return to the UK he and his crew were posted to 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds. Returning from an operation to the Ruhr, they were shot down by a night fighter. When Gordon baled out he landed initially in a tree and then managed to find a hiding place and then began his experience of being on the run. Finally he managed to make contact with the Belgian resistance and the Comete line who began the process of guiding him home.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Belgium
Canada
Gibraltar
Germany
Great Britain
Spain
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1941
1942
Format
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01:28:00 audio recording
103 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
crash
crewing up
de Jongh, Andree (1916 - 2007)
evading
Halifax
Me 110
navigator
Operational Training Unit
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Lichfield
Resistance
training
Wellington