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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/209/3348/ABellJR150727.2.mp3
9d02f41eac38212c78457bf9772c6f97
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Bell, John Richard
John Richard Bell
John R Bell
John Bell
J R Bell
J Bell
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Wing Commander John Richard Bell DFC (-2024). He was a bomb aimer with 619 and 617 Squadrons in Flying Officer Bob Knights’ crew.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Bell, JR-UK
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
The interview is taking place at Mr Bell’s home in Storrington on 27th July 2015. During this interview Mr Bell recounts his experiences as a bomb aimer in 617 Squadron.
JB: I and my crew begged Wing Commander Cheshire when we asked if we could join his squadron and he was sat in his office, very nice man to talk to, we were an experienced crew and he still wanted to know why we wanted to join his squadron, so we told him that we would like to be flying a little lower, nearer the ground, but he said ‘oh, but we’re not going to be doing that any more, we’re operating normally’ which of course they were but they were operating mainly over targets in northern France, practically to the build up to the invasion obviously and one installation that I remember on operation was against the [unclear] works at Limoges which was the first time that Leonard Cheshire had marked the target with his own flares and, er, having found that marking was essential he came over the factory at about two to three hundred feet and dropped twice, to drop flares on the target and to ensure that the French workers in the factory could get out and get into the shelter, the word being that we should try to avoid killing French workers during our bombing campaign. He was a very compassionate man and very easy to talk to and very good, very easy to get on with, he didn’t stand on ceremony and he didn’t order you to do things, he just asked you to follow him, whatever he was prepared to do, he was an exceptional man, an exceptional leader. Early in 1944 the Allies became aware of [unclear] reconnaissance of some large structures, concrete structures being built in the Pas de Calais area of France. They did not know what they were at that time although they suspected they were something to do with the V weapons programme which had been discovered after the attacks on Peenemunde. Following the attack on Peenemunde it was known that the Germans were developing two weapons, a rocket programme and also a pilot’s - aeroplane programme carrying, each carrying one tonne of explosive warheads. The V1 launch site was discovered in the Pas de Calais area early in 1944 and also at that time the two large concrete structures which the Allies were not sure of their purpose but felt they were probably connected to the rocket – V2 Rocket programme. The V1 sites were attacked by Bomber Command throughout the next three months of 1944 and the construction of the - what became known as the V2 programme, the two sites, one in the Eperlecques Forest and one near Saint-Omer at [unclear] were watched as the building progressed but they were large concrete structures and could not be attacked, although they were attacked with conventional weapons but not put out of action until the 617 Squadron was equipped with the Tallboy in June 1944. The site at [unclear] near Saint-Omer consisted of a chalk quarry with a cliff at the far end of the quarry and on the top of the cliff we saw the construction of a concrete dome, obviously built there to protect the workings within the cliff. 617 Squadron were assigned to attack it on – several times in June and July, I think about four times altogether, mainly because of cloud interfering on two occasions and Tallboys were used to destroy all the facilities of the site and in fact one landed close to this concrete dome which obviously destroyed the foundations of the structure. One of the operations I was on was the 17th July 1944 and it was a clear day and we approached the site from the north-west and from a long way away I could see quite clearly, from the bomb aimer’s position, the dome covering the installation in the quarry. We approached at the normal speed of close on one hundred and eighty to two hundred miles an hour and at a height of around eighteen thousand feet. I signed up er [pause]
AP: It’s OK John, just keep -
JB: I switched on the bomb sight and carried out all of the normal procedures for the bombing run and directed the pilot to - on the bombing run. This took some time, we were on the run for at least five minutes and the - I had the dome in my bomb sight for all of that time and at the appropriate moment the bomb was automatically released. It was a clear day and I saw the bomb – the Tallboy going down and I followed it all the way down to the target and it exploded just beside the dome, there was an enormous explosion, so that was recorded as an almost - a direct hit and in fact I did shout out ‘Bullseye’ to the crew to let them know that we’d had a pretty good hit.
AP: And the consequence of what happened, about what it did, can you talk a little bit about what – later on you discovered that -
JB: Later, much later, we discovered that the foundations of the dome - the supports of the dome had been severely disrupted and it had tilted to one side. Obviously the site was then unusable, other Tallboys had bombed the whole of the site and the whole facility was useless by then. On the 25th of July 1944 the squadron continued its attacks on the V weapons sites in the Pas de Calais, we bombed the first V2 site that we’d seen at the Eperlecques Forest and this was a large concrete structure which would have taken a great deal of destruction by Tallboys to put it out of action. It - there were several direct hits on the target on that particular day and eventually the installation was put out of action by our attacks and only the oxygen-producing facility was maintained there. Both sites were never able to launch V2s as they were programmed to do. A third construction site was discovered at a village called Mimoyecques, also in the Pas de Calais area, and it was noted that there were a number of concrete underground installations with a pattern of openings in the tops of the structures. The purpose was not known although it was thought that they were – it was going to be used for the launch of some sort of rocket projectile. The whole site was bombed by the main force of Bomber Command and also by 617 Squadron and their Tallboys were able to penetrate deep into the earth and destroy the foundations of these concrete structures, thereby putting it out of action. It was only discovered - the true purpose of the site was discovered after the Armies – the Allied Armies moved through following D-Day and found that it was a site designed to launch projectiles with a warhead of several kilograms towards London and the number of missiles that would have been launched could have been as high as three thousand a day. The intention of the site was to bombard London with projectiles from these - from this supergun, each carrying a warhead of around thirty kilos of explosive and the intention was from the number of projectiles that they could launch would result in some three thousand shells, so-called shells landing in London every hour and the destruction of the site obviously saved London from an enormous barrage of artillery from long range. This site at Mimoyecques was extremely difficult to bomb because it was all buried underground and there was very little to see on the surface except two concrete structures but er – and of course the whole of the site had been bombed pretty heavily by the normal weapons by aircraft from Bomber Command and the United States Airforce so the 617 crews had difficulty in seeing the site but nevertheless were accurate enough with their Tallboys. On July 6th 1944 617 Squadron aircraft, led by the CO, Wing Commander Leonard Cheshire, attacked the site at Mimoyecques with Tallboys and completely destroyed the site. This operation on the V3 site at Mimoyecques was Wing Commander Cheshire’s one hundredth bombing operation throughout his bombing career from 1941 onwards and he was stood down from bombing following that day, he was then awarded the Victoria Cross for completing all the operations and for his valour in doing so and his leadership and he was followed in command of the squadron by Wing Commander [unclear] Tate, Wing Commander Tate. In 1941 Barnes Wallis who had given great thought to the bombing of various targets in Germany, particularly those underground or buried installations, and he saw the need for a bomb other than a blast bomb, which was currently in use, a bomb to penetrate the earth and explode below causing some sort of an earthquake. His thought at that time was for a very large bomber flying at forty thousand feet and carrying a ten tonne bomb which of course was quite impractical at that time, but in 1943 the launch of the Air Ministry brought out his project again and asked him to design something that could be carried by perhaps the aircraft of the day, the Lancaster, and so he designed what became known as the Tallboy and he designed it in three sizes – four thousand pounds, twelve thousand pounds and twenty-two thousand pounds, all at that time called Tallboys. The four thousand pound was tested and was found not to be as stable as they thought it should be so the fins on the tail were turned to five degrees from the vertical and this helped to - the bomb to spin as it was dropped thereby giving it great stability and the twelve thousand pounder then became known as the Tallboy and the twenty-two thousand pounder was called the Grand Slam, the twelve thousand pounder was issued to 617 Squadron immediately after D-Day and the first operation was against the Saumur tunnel on I think the 9th of June 1944 and the – it was a complete success in destroying the tunnel and from then on the squadron operated almost solely with Tallboys and later with the Grand Slam, the weapons being central in the destruction of the V weapon sites and any other installation that had been buried below the ground. It had also of course - was later found very – found to be the ideal weapon for destroying bridges and canals so a great weapon by Barnes Wallis again used by the squadron. On the 5th August 1944 we carried out a daylight attack on the U-Boat pens at Brest. This was in bright daylight, sunny day, and I can remember dropping my Tallboy onto the area of the pens and I think it hit fairly close by. My memory of the day is that there was an enormous amount of flak, very heavy flak over the target area but we were, we were not hit, we escaped. My job in the crew in the Lancaster was as a bomb aimer and also as front gunner if need be and my job was to guide the pilot towards the target and then to concentrate on dropping the bombs on whatever the target was and dropping them as accurate as possible and my abiding picture of the whole of all the operations I did, particularly those over Germany at night, was of approaching the target area - the city that was under attack or was about to be attacked and to be met with a wall of anti-aircraft fire. The German gunners would fire their shells into a box at around twenty thousand feet, which was the height we were aiming at, aiming to be at, and we just had to fly through that. It was a pretty awesome sight to behold some miles before we reached the target but by concentrating on what we had to do we just had to ignore it, there was no way you could ig – you could dodge anti-aircraft shells, you just have to fly through them and hope that you’re not going to be hit even by a small amount of shrapnel which of course could damage a vital part of the aeroplane but we were very fortunate that all our operations – that we got through all of them unscathed. Following the raid on the German dams 617 Squadron later became, became used to operate on many other targets for which it was equipped with a bomb sight, a new bomb sight, the stabilising automatic bomb site, also known as SABS. This was a precision-built bomb sight and it was not, it was not used in any other – by any other squadron, mainly because it was difficult to build and very few were actually made. The invention and design of the Tallboy weapon by Barnes Wallis was the – a most important weapon that arrived at the right time in 1944. It was the only weapon that could have destroyed the targets against which it was used, conventional weapons at that time were blast weapons and would have had little or no effect on the structures that the Tallboy attacked and it was, it was essential of course to use it against targets which were buried underground and also, er, heavily armoured targets like battleships, the [targets ?] could never have been bombed by anything else other than a Tallboy so the Tallboy was really the crux of the whole bombing campaign from 1944 onwards to, to hasten the end of the war by destroying those targets which the Germans hoped to use to counter the invasion forces, it just was the [emphasis] weapon that was needed at the right time. The Tallboy was carried in the bomb bay and supported in there by a strap which had – the connection of the strap was electrically operated by the bomb sight at the critical moment. The top of the bomb had a hole drilled in it and in the roof of the bomb bay was a metal plug and the plug was – so when the bomb was hoisted into the bomb bay it married up with the plug and the strap was fitted underneath it and that secured it into the bomb bay. At a critical moment the bomb sight automatically triggered the release mechanism for the bomb, the strap separated and the bomb dropped out. The wireless operator’s job was to go back and wind in the two straps – two parts of the strap. The one thing about the Tallboy was that it was expensive to produce and they could not be produced very quickly so they were in limited supply and we were told that if you can’t drop the bomb, if you can’t see the target, don’t drop it, just don’t drop them all over France said Leonard Cheshire and we were instructed to bring them back which we did on several occasions when cloud obscured the target and – or smoke and if we couldn’t see it clearly then we would bring the Tallboy back and landing with a twelve thousand pounder was not funny and one had to be very careful – the pilot land very carefully which he did of course and there were never any accidents with them as there were never any accidents with the crews that brought back the twenty-two thousand pound Grand Slam when they couldn’t drop it so the aircraft was built to carry it and we never had any problem with it. Following the raid on Brest on the 5th August I completed – that completed my 50 missions constituting two tours of operations that I could retire from operating now and attend to further duties in training other crews in the training, training line. The squadron went on to other targets on U-Boat pens and military and, and naval targets throughout the rest of the war.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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ABellJR150727
Title
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Interview with John Richard Bell
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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00:21:47 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary. Allocated T Holmes
Creator
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Andrew Panton
Date
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2015-07-27
Description
An account of the resource
John Bell completed 50 operations as a bomb aimer with 617 Squadron before becoming an instructor.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
France--Mimoyecques
France--Saint-Omer (Pas-de-Calais)
France--Saumur
Germany--Peenemünde
France--Watten
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
Contributor
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Gill Kavanagh
617 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bombing
bombing of the Mimoyecques V-3 site (6 July 1944)
Bombing of the Saumur tunnel (8/9 June 1944)
bombing of the Watten V-2 site (19 June 1944)
bombing of the Wizernes V-2 site (20, 22, 24 June 1944)
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
Grand Slam
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
V-1
V-2
V-3
V-weapon
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/546/8787/PJohnsonKA1507.1.jpg
a4899a68c46a58711c699203c30b2867
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/546/8787/AJohnsonKA170403.2.mp3
eb18c023f71add18db542da2c8c7f140
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Johnson, Ken
K A Johnson
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Johnson, KA
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. Two oral history interviews with Ken Johnson (b. 1924, 1595311 Royal Air Force) and one photograph. He flew operations as an air gunner with 61 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-03
2017-04-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: We are now moving to another interview. My name is Chris Brockbank, and today is the 3rd of April 2017, and I’m in Doncaster with Ken Johnson who did two tours, and we’re going to talk about his life and times in the RAF. So, what’s your earliest recollection Ken? Of life.
KJ: In the RAF?
CB: No, in your family.
KJ: Oh, my family. Well, my father was a ironmonger, not an ironmonger, an iron moulder rather, by trade. So there was very little for that in Doncaster so he used to have to travel to Sheffield to work and he used to cycle there, do nine hours in the foundry and cycle home.
CB: Where were you living? In Doncaster?
KJ: Yeah. We lived, oh in that many parts of Doncaster it’s unbelievable. Hexthorpe, Doncaster, Balby, everywhere in Doncaster we’ve lived. I think he’d got a bit of gypsy in him, we never settled too far.
CB: Trying to be a moving target, was he?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Was he in the First World War?
KJ: No, no, he weren’t old enough.
CB: Right. And how many brothers and sisters did you have?
KJ: I had two brothers, no sisters. Both younger than myself and both have passed on.
CB: Right. Two brothers and two sisters.
KJ: No sisters.
CB: No sisters.
KJ: No.
CB: Just two brothers, yeah. And where did you go to school?
KJ: I started at Balby Infant’s School, I went to Hexthorpe, I went to Intake. I don’t think there’s many schools in Doncaster I haven’t been to.
CB: Why was that?
KJ: My dad, he’d got itchy feet. He could never settle at one place so we were always changing homes.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Aye. He’d brought a, he had it built, a bungalow at Finningley, a beautiful bungalow but my mother wouldn’t go to live there. She were a townie, she didn’t like countryside. Well we went, we lived there three days to be quite honest and that were it. She’d had enough.
CB: And what did you and your brothers think?
KJ: Pardon?
CB: What did you and your brothers think?
KJ: Well they were much younger than I. I was the eldest. There was one five years younger, and one ten years younger, so none of us really had any say in the matter. It was a bit unfortunate, keep having to change schools because you never got in to the ways of the school you were joining, but there you are. We had to knuckle under and put up with it.
CB: What did you do at school?
KJ: Just the ordinary schooling. No, er, I didn’t go to anything special you know, it was just the ordinary school.
CB: Yeah. And what did you do when you left school?
KJ: When I first left school we were living at Sheffield, which was just before the war, and I was a joiner’s apprentice, but when the war was, when the war started my dad said, ‘We’re going back to Doncaster. Sheffield will get bombed’, and he never said a truer word. It did. It got terribly bombed so we were back in Doncaster, and I was still in wood but it wasn’t a joiner’s apprentice, it were just a mundane. We were making clothes horses for people, for ladies to put their clothes to dry on. Clothes drier. And I stuck that for so long and then I went to work at British Ropes, down Carr Hill, in a reserved job which was making cables for barrage balloons. It was, it was a job that there were no joinings in the way. It had got to be a single wire and so it was classed as a reserved occupation. I only got in the RAF because I kept pestering them. I wanted to go and eventually they let me go. I always wanted to fly and I did plenty of that.
[pause]
CB: What type of flying did you want to do?
KJ: Anything. I were, I was prepared to do anything, and the quickest way — I mean a pilot and navigator and those sort of jobs, they were two or three years training and they had to go out to Canada and all like that. Well to be a gunner, it were only a matter of about eighteen months, so I chose the, oh at first it was like you said, wireless operator air gunner but that drove me mad that dit dit da dit dit da business, so I volunteered for a straight gunner and got away from it.
[pause]
CB: And what made you attracted to being a gunner particularly?
KJ: It was the easiest way of getting into aircrew. They needed two gunners to any other trade and I wouldn’t say my education were all that good anyway, so I chose the easy way, volunteered for a gunner.
CB: And when you started gunnery training, how did that go?
KJ: It went very well. I did that up at Dalcross in Scotland, so, yeah it went well. The flying part of it was exceptional ‘cause of the scenery, it was absolutely fantastic, the scenery we were flying over up in the north of Scotland. Aye. I never had any problems in that respect.
CB: What aircraft were you flying as training for that?
KJ: Originally Ansons, then we went on to Wellingtons and then finally Stirlings, and then finally Lancs, but I did all my operational flying on Lancs.
CB: So how did the gunnery course start? What did they do with you to begin with?
KJ: Well we used to go up in the aircraft. I think there were three, there might have been five, either three or five and your, your bullets that you would be firing had a different coloured paint on so they knew which, who had hit how many, and we flew up and then [pause], now I can’t remember the name of the aircraft. It was, it was originally supposed to be a fighter but it can’t have been fast enough so they used —
CB: And that was the Defiant.
KJ: Pardon?
CB: Defiant. With a turret on it.
KJ: No, these were the aircraft that towed the target.
CB: Oh right.
KJ: And I remember they were always Polish pilots, always Polish, which was a bit hectic at times.
CB: Did the tug ever get hit?
KJ: Oh yeah. It wasn’t as easy as you thought, but it, yeah, we, as I say these bullets had a different colour on so they could tell when the drogue came back who’d hit, how many times and so on.
CB: How well did you score?
KJ: Well I didn’t think it were very well. I usually averaged about .5, but there were some worse than me and some a heck of a lot better, so [pause], I mean when you got in a Lancaster and you were, you went into a corkscrew, it’s a wonder you hit anything because one minute you were upside down, the next minute you were stood on your toes. All over the place and you were supposed to — you’d sight. Gun sight was a coloured lit up small thing, and at certain points you were supposed to put the target, say a quarter of the way down or the other side of it, wherever you moved you were supposed to — well trying to remember that lot were impossible. All you could do were aim ahead of the enemy aircraft and just blaze away and let him come through your hail of bullets.
CB: But you had a means of targeting according to the type of aircraft. How did that work?
KJ: No, not really. No. You just had this —
CB: Based on wing span wasn’t it?
KJ: Pardon?
CB: Based on wing span.
KJ: Yeah, and as I say you just had this image, lit up image, and you were supposed, at any point where, same as if you saw the fighter coming from starboard, you’d, say, ‘Fighter starboard. Corkscrew starboard. Go’, and at that, he’d dive in toward the enemy fighter. Well you can imagine, the pilots used to really thrash the aircraft around to avoid being hit themselves and so it were very very difficult to go to the procedure that —
[banging noises]
Other: Sorry. I did that.
KJ: To go to the procedure that you were supposed to go through, but you just had to make, make the best of it as you went along.
CB: Yeah. So as you mentioned corkscrew.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: This was the way of evading an attacking fighter.
KJ: It’s what?
CB: So just talk us through. Who made the call for the corkscrew?
KJ: The gunner.
CB: Which one?
KJ: Which one? The one that saw the fighter coming first.
CB: Right.
KJ: He’d shout out, ‘Fighter starboard’, or port or upper or down, and you were supposed to wait ‘til they were two hundred yards away because if you did it too soon, they could follow you.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: So you were, you judged when it were the right distance, and the, ‘Corkscrew starboard. Go’, and then the pilot would go towards the fighter that was after you.
CB: So that he would overshoot. Right.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: So in the corkscrew, what exactly was the manoeuvre? He was pulling it round hard. Then what?
KJ: Well he dived.
CB: Right.
KJ: Then climbed.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Then climbed again, then down again, that’s where you got your corkscrew.
CB: Right.
KJ: It looked like a corkscrew going through the sky.
CB: Getting you back on track.
KJ: Yeah, and as soon as they broke away you stopped it and waited for them coming again and then started it all over again.
CB: How many times did you get attacked?
KJ: Oh quite a few times but we never, we got hit with bullets but we never got them in any vital places.
CB: Right. We’re ahead of ourselves in a way, but going back to training.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: In the first part of the training, you’re on the ground.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: So how did they carry out that training? With what sort of weapon?
KJ: Well you had, you had the usual 303 Brownings that you’d be using in the aircraft, but there was a turret mounted on a railway track and you just went round this circuit, and the aircraft had come over with a drogue and you’d try to get as many shots in as you could. But they frowned on, there was some got, tried to be a bit crafty and waited till it was a dead shot and then you couldn’t miss, but they frowned on that. They wanted you to do it the hard way like.
CB: So what sort of height are these target tugs coming in at?
KJ: They’d be at same height as yourself but coming in from all different directions.
CB: I meant when you were on ground. You were on the railway tracks.
KJ: Oh.
CB: So, what height are they coming in?
KJ: Well the drogue was on the same track but ahead of you, and that’s where they didn’t like you waiting till they come to a corner, because then you could just bang away and ever hit, everyone had hit.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: So they frowned on that, but it was tried to make it as realistic as possible, and then, on top of that, you’d got cameras in the ones that you were flying and you did the same thing with a camera.
CB: So how did they deal with deflection shooting training?
KJ: Well you were always in the, each position the plane was in, on your gun sight, there was a place you were supposed to put your, put your sight on this and then fire away there, but as you could imagine, when you were doing corkscrewing, you were up and down and one minute you was, your head was banging on the top of the turret. The next minute, you felt as though they’d put a tonne weight on your shoulders. It was very difficult to, to aim.
CB: Ok. Back at the training so after a certain amount of ground training, did you use shotguns for deflection training?
KJ: Yeah, yeah, did all that. Yeah.
CB: Right, and did you alternate between using the Browning 303?
KJ: Oh I did. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And the shotgun.
KJ: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So it was a clay pigeon.
KJ: Clay pigeon, yeah.
CB: Shot. Right. So then you come to the flying, so three of you in an Anson. Or five.
KJ: Aye. Yeah.
CB: How did that work?
KJ: And you took turns to climb in to the turret and do your, do your thing.
CB: Because it’s a mid-upper turret on the Anson.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Right.
KJ: Yeah, yeah, it was a twin engine. There were two very similar aircraft, Anson and Oxford, but I only ever heard of the Anson having the turret. Might have been Oxfords used for the same reason. There were no reason why not. They were almost alike aircraft [coughs] excuse me.
[pause]
CB: So in that aircraft, let’s say the Anson, you’ve got three or five students.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Who’s there guiding you?
KJ: Just the pilot.
CB: Was there another, an experienced air gunner?
KJ: Oh yeah, yeah, there would be, and he’d tell you when it was your turn to go in and come out.
CB: What sort of guidance did he give you?
KJ: Well he couldn’t do much at all except keep your eye on the target, and such tips as waiting while they were flying across you and getting ahead of them, and then really putting the bursts in. You were sure to hit something, but the thing that amused me — I thought these, when we got to that stage, I thought the people that were teaching us would have done operations but they hadn’t. They’d just, they’d been good in their training so they’d been held back as instructors.
CB: Was it actually a mix? Were there some people who were experienced?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Air gunners. Were there?
KJ: Well as I say there were, they’d done well in their training and they were held back.
CB: But there were people who’d been on operations there.
KJ: No. I thought there would be.
CB: But not at that time.
KJ: No.
CB: Ok. Right. And when you went up, how long was your go?
KJ: No more than half an hour. Yeah. From climbing in to climbing out of the turret. Yeah.
CB: Ok. And after Dalcross, then what happened?
KJ: After Dalcross, we were then went to OTU, our Operational Training Unit, and that was where you crewed up, but the normal thing was you’d get the same number of pilots, navigators etcetera, and they palled-up amongst themselves for a day or two, and then the pilot would say to one, navigators probably, ‘I want you as my navigator’. And that’s how it were crewed up, but I didn’t get that choice because when I went to OUT, there was so many crews ahead of us that hadn’t got gunners or they’d only got one gunner and needed another one, so we would, what would, what would you say, we were told which crew —
CB: Yeah.
KJ: We were going to be with.
CB: You didn’t get a choice.
KJ: I didn’t get a choice. I couldn’t have done better so. I remember we, we were, there’s Bruntinghorpe and Bitteswell. One was used for flying and the other was where you did your learning your other parts of the job, stripping guns down and all that sort of thing, and I remember I was told to go to the gatehouse where there was this navigator. He was going to be my navigator so he’d, I’d got to go see him and he would introduce me to the rest of the crew like. So we went, we went to the billets first the whole crew shared, well two crews shared a billet. There were fourteen beds in and he said, the navigator said, ‘Oh they’ll be going for lunch now to the sergeant’s mess so we’ll go meet the rest of the crew’. So we trooped off to the sergeant’s mess and there was a bit of a [pause] well I don’t know how to describe it, a bit of a hullaballoo going on. This pilot had gone in to the sergeant’s mess and he’d just picked out a gunner, a navigator and a wireless operator, ‘Come with me’, and he took them to a Wellington. They went off. He wanted to land at this aerodrome to meet a friend, but when they got there, they wouldn’t allow him, so he came back but he were in such a temper he tried to land without putting his wheels down. Made a mess of the undercarriage. Luckily, they all got away with it but he got put down in rank but lost about three ranks. And then we, we went into the mess and the navigator says, ‘Oh there’s the pilot’, and he were in a big armchair like this, with a sheet of newspaper over his face, away to the world, and this sheet of paper kept going up and down [laughs].
CB: As he puffed away.
KJ: As he were breathing. And he says, ‘There’s Harry’. His name was Harold really but he preferred being called Harry so, ‘There’s Harry there’, and I said, ‘Well don’t disturb him. He’s having a nice little nap there’. ‘Oh he’ll have to wake up for his lunch’, so he woke him up and introduced me. Shook hands with me, settled back down in his chair, pulled his paper down and went back to sleep [laughs], so that was my introduction to Harry Watkins.
CB: A flight sergeant.
KJ: Yeah. He’d, he was an amazing man he was. He was no bigger than me, no taller than me, maybe an inch but no more than that, but he’d got a chest on him like a barrel and he was strong as a bull. I’m sure he could have looped a Lancaster if he’d have wanted to, or if he’d been allowed to I should say, and he was a lot older than me. He’d gone to Finland to fight for the Fins against the Russians, and he were a fighter pilot and then when they signed a treaty, they sealed off the land borders so the only way they could get out, there was him and his friend, the only way they could get out was by sea, so they, they hired a trawler and they hit some very bad weather and almost drowned. A Russian gun boat picked them up, took them back to Russia and put them in a concentration camp. So he was ten, ten or eleven months in this concentration camp living on cabbage water. So by the time he got released, and the reason he’d got released was when the second front came, some of our soldiers that couldn’t get back to the beaches went to the Russians and they put them in this concentration camp, but the thing was, the British Consul had got a check on them. So they, as they were, they got them out, and these two other Britishers said, ‘When you get out, tell them there’s two more Englishmen in here wanting releasing’, and that’s how they got out. But he’d lost an amazing amount of weight, he’d, he had to go to Rhodesia to be built up before they’d let him sign up for the RAF. Aye. But he was an amazing man.
CB: But how did he come to go to Finland in the first place?
KJ: Well, you know, during the Spanish war.
CB: Ahh. The Spanish Civil War, yeah.
KJ: Some British were, well various —
CB: Yeah. The International Brigade.
KJ: That’s right.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Well, that’s how they did for Finland.
CB: Oh, did they?
KJ: Aye.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: So, aye, anyway they got out and built him up and then let him join up.
CB: So how did the crew get together after they were, get on when they got together?
KJ: Well, at first you, all the different navigator, pilots etcetera, etcetera, they were all went in this big room and allowed to mingle and talk among themselves, and they palled up. That’s what it amounted to but as I say, I never had that choice.
CB: No.
KJ: Because I, they’d got, they were crewed up except for another gunner and they just said right, oh they gave us a test on aircraft recognition and the first ten I think it was, were allotted to crews that hadn’t got a gunner.
CB: Ok.
KJ: And I stayed with him. We did a tour. Well a lot just did the tour and then took a rest and probably they never got called on again, but we all volunteered to keep going.
CB: Oh. You all did? You all volunteered to keep going as a crew, did you?
KJ: All but two. One was the navigator and he’d got a wife and two kiddies and he didn’t think it were fair on them to just volunteer to keep going, and the other one was the wireless operator. He had a sick mother and there again, he thought it weren’t fair to her to, so, and as far as I know, they never did call them up again.
[pause].
KJ: I don’t know where any of the crew are. I know the pilot died ‘cause I got — it’s in the Midlands, his grave, but as far as I know, he just died of, well it wouldn’t be old age because he wouldn’t be all that old, but perhaps had some sort of illness.
CB: So we talked about the OTU and you’re getting together there.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: How long were you at the OTU and what were you doing?
KJ: We used to go on flights, cross country’s they called them, and you had, you were given a course that you had to take, and on the way, there’d be some bomb practice places and you’d call there and drop, drop a bomb. A four pound practice bomb on it and you got marks for that and you got marks for being at certain points at certain times. So we did very well at that because we’d got an excellent navigator and an excellent bomb aimer and an excellent skipper. And that, we went on these cross country’s, which could take ten or even twelve hours, and as I say, you’d had to call at it’d perhaps be a power station or something. It were a great big power station that became common afterwards, but it was the only one at the time in the Midlands somewhere and that was a favourite place for you to. Of course, you didn’t actually drop a bomb on there, it were just a case of photographing it as though you had bombed.
CB: So the OTU lasted?
KJ: Three months.
CB: Three months.
KJ: Yeah, perhaps more.
CB: And then you went to the HCU. So your OTU was at Bruntingthorpe.
KJ: Operationally, yeah.
CB: Then the Heavy Conversion Unit. The HCU.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Where was that?
KJ: That was at either Bruntingthorpe or Bitteswell, I can’t remember. The two B’s so I can’t remember which was which.
CB: But they were the OTUs weren’t they?
KJ: Yeah. Oh well we did us [pause], I can’t remember.
CB: Ok, but you said you moved to Stirling.
KJ: Yeah, we went on Stirlings. I hated them.
CB: Why didn’t you like that?
KJ: They weren’t very easy to fly in. They were, if you, if you had to, with a Lancaster, you drove towards the landing strip and then eased up so as you’d got a three point landing, but if you did that with a Stirling, it’d break it’s back and you’d be —
CB: Oh.
KJ: Yeah, and there was always plenty to let you know about it. Wreckage on the, on the airfield.
CB: Oh really. Right.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: So how many, how long were you flying that before you changed to Lancaster?
KJ: Luckily it wasn’t too long. About six weeks that.
CB: And doing the same exercises or different?
KJ: Doing mostly the same things. Yeah.
CB: To what extent were you doing fighter affiliation?
KJ: Oh we were doing that. Every time we went up we’d have a bit of that in.
CB: Right.
KJ: You’d got to keep your eyes open in the gun turrets because they could come up on you anywhere, and you’d perhaps be like them cross country’s ten hours. Twelve hours in some cases.
CB: So that’s your HCU.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Then your first squadron you joined was?
KJ: 61.
CB: Where was that?
KJ: Skellingthorpe.
CB: Right.
KJ: Just outside Lincoln, and there were two squadrons shared the same airfield.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: So when there was a bombing raid on, you’d get them coming from both sides but you used to take it in turns, 50, 61s and so on, until you’d got the two squadrons airborne. Yeah.
CB: And how many bombers in a squadron?
KJ: Eighteen. They’d usually aimed to have eighteen in the air.
CB: Oh in the air. Right. So not all of them flew, so how many aircraft were there?
KJ: Well no I mean, if there was anything serious like an engine change or anything like that, then one squadron or the other would be one down, but usually they aim for getting eighteen from each squadron on a raid.
CB: Ok. So when you got to the squadron then, when you got to the HCU, then the flight engineer and the rear gunner joined.
KJ: Yeah. Well only the flight engineer.
CB: Or the upper gunner which was you.
KJ: It was the upper gunner was the one that joined so far through.
CB: So you didn’t go to the OTU, or you did?
KJ: Yeah. Yeah. I joined them at —
CB: At the OTU.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: And then —
CB: And at the HCU, then the flight engineer joined.
KJ: Joined us, yeah.
CB: Right.
KJ: And again, we didn’t have any choice, they just marched us on parade.
CB: Who was that?
KJ: They called him Fred Jowett.
CB: How did he gel? Bearing in mind you’d been together already?
KJ: It were, well he took up with the rear gunner, him and Fred were big friends, they used to go out.
CB: Carson Foy.
KJ: Yeah, used to go out drinking at night and all that sort of business, but he was married and I didn’t like the way he treated his wife, so I hadn’t got a lot of time for him.
CB: Oh.
KJ: He were good at this job but [pause] I always remember the parade when he was put in our crew, and he’d got a pair of trousers that he’d had widened like sailor’s trousers [laughs]. He got reprimanded for that and made to pay for them being put back to what they should be. And his, his cap, I think he must have cleaned engines with his cap, it were just one block of grease. He and his wife, whenever he got forty eight hour leave or anything like that, used to come home with me because his wife were in Army.
CB: Oh.
KJ: And she was stationed in Doncaster, she was a sergeant. And my mum and dad used to let them use their bedroom and I were kicked down to the sofa.
[long pause]
CB: So when you got to the squadron, what happened then?
KJ: Well not a lot of fuss made. All you, all you got at first, you did so many cross country’s to, with the aircraft affiliation also and bits thrown in to get used to what operational flying would be like. And then of course came the big day for the first op, and our first op was just after D-day and it was helping the Army. But they were so, the front lines were so close, we were given a signal to stop bombing, and I always remember it was “Billy Bunter” and we hadn’t bombed. We got to the target just ready to bomb, and this signal came. “Billy Bunter. Billy Bunter”, so we closed our bomb doors and changed back to go back home, but a lot of them kept bombing and the, the master bomber got fed up with them and he was really giving them a ticking off.
CB: For staying on.
KJ: For keep bombing.
CB: What was the target there?
KJ: Well, it were the enemy armoury. Tanks.
CB: Hitting Canadian troops were they?
KJ: Oh ours, yeah, a lot of ours were Canadian. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: No, I meant when the targets – they had, they had a friendly fire problem.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Was that why they stopped the bombing?
KJ: That’s right, yeah.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Yeah, ‘cause when the two lines got too close, you couldn’t decide one from the other so. Aye.
[pause]
CB: What other, so in your first tour what other, what significant things happened there?
KJ: Well first tour, we were with the crowd, you know, with the main force, but our second tour, we carried the twelve thousand pound Tallboy bomb and it was chosen targets. The last one being Hitler’s guest house at Berchtesgaden.
CB: Right.
KJ: But he wasn’t there anyway so.
CB: Why were they bombing it then?
KJ: Well they didn’t know he weren’t. They thought he was there but apparently, he wasn’t when it —
CB: Still in Berlin.
KJ: Aye. In a bunker, underground bunker where he died anyway.
CB: So what significant events happened to you during the bombing raids? During the ops.
KJ: In what way do you mean?
CB: Well did you have any excitements or dangers? You got shot at a few times.
KJ: Oh we had some. I mean we got that time when aircraft above dropped his bombs on us.
CB: What happened there?
KJ: Three bombs hit us. One chopped off the starboard fin and rudder, one chopped off about five foot off the starboard wing, up to the starboard outer motor, and the third one hit the rear turret and took the rear turret away.
CB: And that’s why you needed a new rear gunner.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Did he get out?
KJ: Oh no. No. I’ve, I’ve been to his grave in Normandy.
CB: So this was a daylight operation was it?
KJ: Yeah. Yeah. I warned him about this, but the pilot says, ‘They’ll see us and they won’t drop them’, but almost as he said it, they were coming down on us.
CB: He couldn’t accelerate away.
KJ: No. He said, ‘There’s nothing I can do about it. We’re hemmed in’, so he just had to sit tight.
CB: So at night raids, you were in a stream. When you were bombing in daylight, how did you do that? Was it formation or still a stream?
KJ: Still a stream.
CB: Right.
KJ: You might get in a formation going backwards and forwards, but once you got near the target, you’re independent. You did as you want then.
CB: So without its turret, how did the plane behave? Rear turret.
KJ: Well we didn’t find any difference. In fact, he made a perfect landing when we got back, but it must have been, must have made a difference but he were a fantastic pilot so he dealt with it. When he got, when he got out the plane, his shirt was absolutely wet through. He must have fought it every inch of the way back.
CB: Because it had damaged the fin.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: One of them.
KJ: Well he’d only have part, part of his controls.
CB: And the wing. Which fin was hit?
KJ: Starboard fin.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: And starboard wing.
CB: Oh it was, yeah.
KJ: So we were top heavy sort of thing.
CB: So you’re in the mid-upper turret.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: You’ve already warned the pilot about the plane above.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: What, what did you see when the bomb was coming down and the affect? How did this happen?
KJ: We’ll all I could see were these.
CB: A stick.
KJ: A full bomb bay full of bombs.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Coming down towards us and most of them slipping past on my left side.
CB: Right. You’re facing which way? Backwards?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Yeah. And I couldn’t help but see them because they were on top of me. It wasn’t a nice moment.
CB: So did some of them, they must have done, in a stick, some of them missed.
KJ: Yeah, quite a few of them went between the starboard wing.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: And the starboard fin and rudder.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: More or less alongside me. Too close for comfort.
CB: So how much higher was this other plane?
KJ: It wasn’t too far above us because we were all supposed to be at the same height, but some used to go higher to avoid that happening to them, but the trouble is they did it to somebody else.
[pause]
CB: So you saw the bombs coming down.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: What, what was it like? Some were missing then. How many hit the turret?
KJ: There were three hit the aircraft.
CB: Right. Oh, three hit the aircraft. Right.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: So one on the wing, one on the rudder.
KJ: And one on the rear turret.
CB: Yeah. So how did that come? That came straight down. Then how did you see it?
KJ: Well we got the, I’m getting mixed up with my starboard and, on the left hand side.
CB: On your left because you’re looking backwards.
KJ: They were all coming that side.
CB: Yes, the starboard side.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: And were you able to call out?
KJ: Well I did do, I warned him but he said, ‘Nothing I can do. We’re hemmed in’.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: So we just had to sit there and hope for the best.
CB: So where did the bomb, where did it hit the turret? The one that hit the turret, where?
KJ: Straight on top.
CB: Straight in the middle.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: And the effect of that?
KJ: Tore it away from –.
CB: The whole of the turret.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Right.
KJ: There was just a gaping hole where the rear turret should have been.
CB: So what chances of survival were there for the rear gunner?
KJ: Zero.
CB: Right.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: And they didn’t explode because the primer.
KJ: No you wouldn’t.
CB: Hadn’t gone into action then.
KJ: You’d got that little.
CB: The delay.
KJ: Propeller that unscrewed as it dropped down.
CB: Right.
KJ: But it wouldn’t be, it wouldn’t be live until it was, say, a thousand feet.
CB: Right.
KJ: Above the ground and then it would slowly become alive.
CB: Right. So how many other members of the crew saw that?
KJ: Nobody apart from me.
CB: What effect did that have on you afterwards?
KJ: Well I were very, very upset because he were a friend of mine, the rear gunner.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: But I didn’t realise ‘till it were very late on in the war. We were coming back from a raid and it were a daylight, and as we crossed the Rhine, I saw these Typhoons going up and down and releasing rockets, and I’d never seen anything like that. At the gun emplacements along the Rhine. And I suddenly realised I was sweating and it were cold. There were no reason to be sweating, but that must have been nerves I should imagine.
CB: Yeah.
[pause]
CB: So after the raid did you, that particular one, where you lost your friend, did you fly the next day? Or was there –
KJ: Yeah. We were on ops the very next night, yeah.
CB: So was that better than having a rest or worse?
KJ: Well they told you it was for your own benefit if you —
CB: Yeah. Get up again.
KJ: So yeah, we were on another raid the following night.
CB: And how did that work for you?
KJ: It went pretty well really. A bit strange with getting a new voice from the rear turret but — [pause]. He were a farmer, he’d no need to be in the forces at all but he’d got two brothers that had adjoining farms, and they were looking after it for him.
CB: Which part of the country was that?
KJ: It was in the Midlands somewhere that they came from.
CB: Ok [pause], so apart from that one on the Rhine crossing, did you have any reaction on any other sorties?
KJ: Well er the Rhine, I didn’t know just how close it had come to that, but we got hit by shrapnel and one piece had gone through about two inches above my head, the top of my head and buried in the fuselage at the other side. The, one of the ground crew dug it out but he wouldn’t, I wanted him to give it to me but he wouldn’t. He hung on to it so —
CB: He wanted it did he?
KJ: Aye.
CB: Was it a bullet or shrapnel from flak?
KJ: Shrapnel from flak.
CB: Right.
KJ: A jagged piece about that.
CB: Yeah. About two inches, three inches.
KJ: It would have done enough damage anyway.
CB: Yeah. So when it hit your canopy, did it go through or did it shatter it?
KJ: It went through and then through the other side. The hole was pretty neat but there was a few cracks from it, you know.
CB: That was after the turret experience was it?
KJ: Yeah. We did, we did a tour and then instead of having a rest, we carried on with another tour.
CB: So those were both in the first tour.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Right. What caused you to do another go?
KJ: The pilot. He were a keen type and I wouldn’t have flown with anybody else if I could avoid it.
CB: That was 9 Squadron.
KJ: Yeah. He used to have his own way of taking off ‘til they stopped him doing it. They said, ‘We know you’re capable but somebody might try it and not be as successful as you’. You’re still, as we took off, he’d only just got airborne and he’d tilt over. It looked very spectacular from the ground but, well it looked spectacular from the gunner’s point of view as well, but he was warned off not to do it again.
CB: What did he do then? Bring the undercarriage up quickly or what?
KJ: Yeah. Quickly undercarriage up and he was already tilting his, er tilting the wing until it was, well it must have been pretty near the ground.
CB: He was turning his wing.
KJ: Anyway, he was ordered not to do it again.
CB: How did he feel about that?
KJ: Oh he took it all in good part. He were, he were a nice man was Harry Watkins.
CB: When you got your second rear gunner, because of the first one being lost, how did he get in with the crew or not?
KJ: Well he palled up straight. The engineer was a big drinker and so was this new gunner, so them two got on well together. I once counted that they had twenty two pints of beer.
CB: Each.
KJ: Each. They must have floated [laughs].
CB: Amazing. So how often did the crew go out together? These two clearly wanted to get ahead of the game.
KJ: When we were, if we were landing back at base very rare. If I wanted a drink, I’d have it in the sergeant’s mess but if you landed away from base, the officers could sub money from the officer’s funds so they’d sub so much money and treat us out for the night.
CB: How often did you find the pubs short of beer?
KJ: Did we find?
CB: The pubs short of beer. How often?
KJ: Oh, not very often, not very often [paused], but I used to like to stick to the sergeant’s mess.
CB: So how did you manage to keep in touch with Joan? Your future wife.
KJ: By mail, that were all, and get home as soon as soon, as often as possible. I used to, I were stationed quite close to Lincoln in both —
CB: In Bardney.
KJ: Both Bardney and Skellinghorpe.
CB: Skellingtorpe, yeah.
KJ: So it was an easy matter to get a train to Doncaster from them places. So if I’d got, if we weren’t flying that night, I’d take a chance on it and go home for the night. Only once did we nearly come adrift and that was, that was at Skellingthorpe, and from the bus stop to the camp was about a mile walk and all the way along, we could hear this tannoy saying myself and the engineer to report to the flights immediately. They’d come on an early morning raid they were going to do. Well they’d got reserves to go in our places, but the lad that were going to be the rear gunner, he said, ‘No. I’m not bothered. You go on’, so I got my raid in. But the engineer, this young man that were standing in for him had only got that one raid to finish his tour, so he said, ‘Oh no. I’m going on it’, so, but we both got the same punishment. Grounded for so many days and, not much like. A good telling off. It were a funny thing that, because the skipper always knew where we were, my home address, and he swore he’d sent a telegram but we never got it. So —
CB: That’s why you were late.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: So what did they do to you?
KJ: We got a reprimand and confined to barracks for so long.
CB: How did the leave system work? How often did you get leave?
KJ: Oh with aircrew we were very lucky. We got a week’s leave every six weeks and you got a week’s pay from —
CB: Nuffield Fund.
KJ: Nuffield, aye. He also, when we went on leave, he gave us a week’s pay as well so a very popular man.
[pause]
CB: So you finished with 50 Squadron and went to 9.
KJ: Finished with 61.
CB: Finished with 61 Squadron and went to 9.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: How was the process and operation different from your previous experience?
KJ: Not a lot different really but we’d done more ops than others. We were senior crew like, ‘cause we’d done more than all the others, but it didn’t take long for somebody to overtake us, so —
CB: So here, you’re doing precision bombing.
KJ: Oh yeah.
CB: Tallboy, twelve thousand pounder.
KJ: Yeah
CB: So how did you do your training for that?
KJ: Well they did, I know the bomb aimers did have, we used to take up the bomb aimers to do this practice bombing and there were certain regulations laid down how they should treat this Tallboy bomb. ‘Course the Tallboy, you had to have special bomb doors. Normal bomb doors wouldn’t close over a Tallboy.
CB: How were the, what were these like?
KJ: They’d, they were shaped. Instead of just going around, they come down so far and then bellied out a bit and then came back in, so you could tell there was something different about them, and then, when them that carried the twenty two thousand pounder, they didn’t have any bomb doors on at all.
CB: The Grand Slam.
KJ: The Grand Slam. They just had a chain holding it up but I never carried that. We were, we stuck to Tallboys.
CB: How often did you have to, how often did you fail to drop the Tallboys or did you always drop them?
KJ: Well if we couldn’t be sure of the target, we’d orders to bring it back. Sometimes they changed their mind if conditions weren’t good and that, but as a rule, we brought them back because they cost so much to produce.
CB: And how did you feel about landing with such a heavy load on?
KJ: Well at first very tedious, very timid, but you got used to it like everything else.
CB: Your pilot was a good one so —
KJ: Oh a fantastic man, yeah.
CB: What sort of targets were you going for then?
KJ: With the Tallboy, they were chosen targets like dams or them viaducts.
CB: The U-Boat. Oh right.
KJ: And that type of thing. Things that you could knock down.
CB: So the Bielefeld Viaduct was brought down by a Grand Slam. Did you drop that?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Did that, was 9 Squadron involved in that?
KJ: Yeah. Always two squadrons. At first 617, like on the dam raid, there were only them.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: But subsequent raids they were losing more and more men, so they decided to lighten the load by putting two squadrons on these special targets rather than one, and the other squadron was Number 9, so it meant that 617 didn’t have to take it all.
CB: And how many ops did you do on your second tour?
KJ: Fifteen.
CB: And what, why did those stop?
KJ: Well, the war ended.
CB: It was the end of the war.
KJ: Yeah, thirty was a tour.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Well we did a tour but then we carried, agreed to carry straight on and we just carried on till the end of the war then, and the very last raid was Hitler’s guest house at Berchtesgaden.
[pause]
CB: So the war is over, now what did you do?
KJ: Well, they, they were getting ready to go to the Far East to carry the war to Japan, so I thought, well, I’ve done forty five ops, I’ve done my share. It wouldn’t be fair to the wife to carry on so I dropped out the race. But they never got there anyway, the war ended before they, they got to that point, so that was it.
CB: So the end of the war in Europe was the 8th of May, August was VJ day, so you were still in the RAF after that.
KJ: Oh yeah.
CB: What was going on? What were you doing then?
KJ: Well we were doing more or less the same things for so long, for about a year, and then we were put on ground staff jobs, and I got put on, well it were my choice, on driving. They were cook or drivers and I didn’t fancy cooking. I might have poisoned them all.
CB: Very likely. No, no, no. And what was, what determined the date of your demob?
KJ: It went on how old you were mainly ‘cause, and there was, the RAF for some reason was being held back ‘til last. So the Army and the Navy were getting demobbed, demobbed ahead of us but eventually the day came. But in that time, I’d been sent to Egypt and I was in charge of a lorry place which had forty five lorries, and I had to find loads for them going backwards and forwards. So, but eventually the day came when we came home [pause], and it was just a case of landing in Liverpool, going into this big hangar, big hangar and throwing my RAF kit into that, and walking out in a new suit. We got rigged out with civilian clothes.
CB: Right. What did they give you in civilian clothes?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: What did they give you?
KJ: A suit, shirt, tie, hat - which I never wore. I never wore a hat. The only time I wore a hat were in the RAF. And socks and shoes, the whole bag of tricks.
CB: So you came out of the RAF. Then what did you do?
KJ: Well my father had a little foundry and I went to work for him, but I did join the Observer Corps and I did another couple of years, part time of course, in the Observer Corps. We used to have exercises, mostly at weekends and we had a place out at Brampton.
CB: At Brampton.
KJ: Aye.
CB: Near Huntingdon.
KJ: Pardon?
CB: Brampton near Huntingdon [pause]. Where?
KJ: I thought it were Brampton. It was near Finningley.
CB: Ah.
KJ: Back side of Finningley. Actually we were in some gardens.
CB: Right.
KJ: There were like a hut there with a all glass top.
CB: Right.
KJ: So as you could see aircraft, and for a while it were interesting, ‘cause we did, we’d go on a weekend and we’d have to spot and record every aircraft we saw flying over. But then it got to nuclear business and the idea was you’d go out if there were a nuclear warning. We’d have to go out to the shelter and stay there till you got the all clear, but you were leaving your family behind. I said, ‘No. No. That’s not for me. If I go, we all go’, so I packed it in.
CB: In the Observer Corps, you were being paid as an employee were you?
KJ: In the Observer Corps? No. No, it were voluntary.
CB: So what was your job at the time?
KJ: I was working at er mining.
CB: In your father’s foundry.
KJ: Mining supplies. Engineering.
CB: Right. So you joined father’s foundry company.
KJ: Aye but –
CB: Then you changed from that.
KJ: I went to work for International Harvesters.
CB: Right. Oh right.
KJ: And learned more about machines, so I stayed at the Harvesters some years then. Twelve years I think.
CB: Did you? Right.
KJ: Aye, ‘cause my dad’s place – my mother was taken seriously ill. She died of cancer and my dad’s place had really gone to ruins. There was nobody knew how to run it like he did and he was at home all the time nursing mum, so I worked for Harvesters then for twelve year.
CB: And then what did you do? Did you do something after that?
KJ: I finished up at mining supplies.
CB: Right.
[phone ringing]
CB: We’ll stop it a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: Where were the mining supplies? That was in Doncaster?
KJ: Carr Hill, yeah.
CB: In Carr Hill, yeah. And what were you doing there?
KJ: Engineering, running the machine.
CB: Oh right.
KJ: It was the, oh what did they call them?
CB: Milling.
KJ: Yeah. They were [pause]. Oh what did they call them? The machines that you put a programme in, and they —
CB: Yeah. CCN. Yeah
KJ: Yeah. So —
CB: CNC. CNC.
KJ: A lot of the young ones that were working there didn’t want to know, so I said I’d have a go at it, so I was taught how to run this machine and it fell in just natural, and that’s how I finished up working.
CB: How long were you with that one?
KJ: Oh a good, good, right to, after the war. I should say twelve, twelve years again.
CB: Right, and that brought you to retirement did it?
KJ: Yeah. Well I worked a long time after my retirement but eventually I had.
CB: Had to retire.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Right. I’m just going to pause.
[Recording paused]
CB: Right. So what would you say was the most memorable event in your time in the RAF?
KJ: I think obviously it would be I mean we’ve had some shaky dos as we used to call them, when we were being hit by flak and all that sort of thing, chased by fighters, but the worst experience was when we had the bombs dropped on us.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: And we lost our rear gunner.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: That was the most memorable thing.
CB: Traumatic.
KJ: Traumatic, that’s a better word yeah. Yeah.
CB: Out of interest, what did the Air Force do about a memorial service after that? Did they do anything?
KJ: No.
CB: No, because it was just run of the mill.
KJ: That’s it, yeah, it was a risk you took.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: That were their thinking, yeah. I’ve been to, you know, the Spire in Lincoln.
CB: Yes.
KJ: Well I’ve been to that, and all the names of those that got killed are all on brass plaques around the Memorial, and where we used to call him Jack Foy, ‘cause his name was Carson Jack Foy, and if I stand up again at this particular plaque, his name just appears above my head.
CB: Does it really.
KJ: Aye.
CB: ‘Cause he’s one of the ones of the twenty six thousand two hundred in the rolls of honour. The three.
KJ: That’s right. Yeah.
CB: The three volumes.
KJ: His mother lost two sons within [pause] within a month anyway.
CB: Really.
KJ: We lost Jack and then a few days after it was D-day and his brother was in the Canadian Army and he was killed on D-day.
CB: Right.
KJ: So she lost two sons.
CB: Heartbreaking.
KJ: I used to write to his sister but I know, but, one time I weren’t well and I left it, and I thought oh it’s, I’ll leave it now so I didn’t bother after that.
CB: We didn’t really talk about the number of times you were actually attacked by fighters and your response to that in defence of the aircraft.
KJ: I should say at least a half a dozen times, and it depended which gunner spotted them first, because he would take over as the [pause], tell the skipper to go into a corkscrew, so you’d shout, ‘Corkscrew left. Corkscrew left. Go’, and off you would go.
CB: And everybody then held on.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: How many did you shoot down between you?
KJ: We only, we only claimed one but —
CB: Was that yours?
KJ: We, there were a few we discouraged shall we say.
CB: Yes. Did the, did the one you shot down, was that yours or was it Carson’s?
KJ: Well I said it was the rear gunner’s because he got better shots at it. I were only getting it as it whizzed by. Just get in front and blaze away and hope for the best, but the rear gunner was watching it from the time it started to come at us.
CB: What was it?
KJ: An ME109.
CB: Right. In the dark?
KJ: Yeah, it was dark. Yeah. We got chased with a ME101.
CB: 110.
KJ: 110. 110. But it were cloudy that day and we kept dodging into the clouds and losing him.
CB: Right.
KJ: But he persevered for a hell of a time. Every time we come out of the cloud, he were there.
CB: Yeah, because he’d got radar hadn’t he?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Yeah. Course we didn’t know that at that time.
CB: Was it possible for the mid-upper and the rear gunner to engage the target at the same time?
KJ: Oh yeah, yeah, no problem there. The rear turret as you were, you went on a duckboard from the, well it was the toilet there.
CB: At the back.
KJ: At the back, and from there to the turret, you’d got like a runway, thick plywood, and you walked along that to get into the rear turret. Well from there, right up to under my turret, the rear gunners had got four, well two each side, four rows of cartridges going on a conveyer belt.
CB: Twenty seven feet of them.
KJ: Pardon?
CB: Nine yards. Twenty seven feet.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Yeah, and mine were just in canisters either side of the guns.
CB: Right.
CB: So —
KJ: On the wall or on the floor?
CB: On the [pause] up, up same height as myself.
KJ: Right.
CB: So how many? You had obviously many less rounds. How many rounds did you have?
KJ: There were just a minute’s firing. One thousand something on each gun.
CB: Oh right.
KJ: So, but I mean the rear turret could go on for ages.
CB: How many rounds did the, that’s a lot of rounds on there stretched on the floor.
KJ: Oh yeah.
CB: For the rear gunner.
KJ: Yeah, yeah, coming right back from the rear turret to my turret and back again. Yeah, it was [pause] well it was about half way up the aircraft from the rear turret. Yeah. He’d a hell of a lot of cartridges, and you had incendiary bullets so you could see where you were, where your bullets were going.
CB: Tracer.
KJ: Tracer bullets.
CB: They were, they weren’t all tracer.
KJ: No.
CB: So it was, was one in how many?
KJ: One in every five, I think.
CB: Right.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: You needed that in the dark.
KJ: Yeah. Yeah. Then later on some of the rear turrets got .5s.
CB: Right at the end.
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Just 2.5s. Yeah.
KJ: Two instead of four 303s, yeah.
CB: So how did you feel about your reduced fire power of only two guns in the mid-upper?
KJ: Well you’d have been happier with more, but you just had to make do. I mean the rear, rear gunner had got a lot more fire power than you.
CB: When you were zeroing in on the attacking fighter, which part of the fighter would you actually be aiming to hit?
KJ: Well the easiest way was get in front of him and fire and let him come through your hail of bullets.
CB: Right.
KJ: But they had a laid down plan. You’d got the gun sight which was about that big. A circle.
CB: Right.
KJ: With a dot in the middle.
CB: Three inches.
KJ: And you were supposed, at different points, when you were in the corkscrew, trying to escape, different points where you were supposed to put your gun, aim you gun, but it was impossible.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: I mean, one minute you were head were in the top.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: The next minute it felt as though somebody had put a tonne weight on your shoulders. So a lot of it was using your own judgement.
CB: The final question on this is, you and the rear gunner are in a section that is completely unheated.
KJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CB: So how did you feel during the flight?
KJ: Well we were issued with heated suits but the trouble was, nine times out of every ten, they weren’t tended for and one minute they were too hot and the next, when you turned them off they were too cold. So they weren’t a lot of good to be quite honest, but you had an electrically heated suit and then an overall suit over the top of that.
CB: There were two circuits were there in the heated suit? One each side.
KJ: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So did they always both work?
KJ: Oh some of them failed. Some of them had got, they were, they got that hot, within minutes you had to take them off. You couldn’t stand that. It were better to not get used to it.
CB: So what sort of lengths were the flights? They varied but, to the target but what length in hours was a typical flight.
KJ: I should say on an average about six, seven hours but I’ve done some up to twelve hours.
CB: What that would be? The longest ones.
KJ: Stettin.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Would be one of the longest ones. Right up in, well it were Russia at that time.
CB: Right out on the Baltic coast.
KJ: Yeah, that’s right.
CB: Did you, because you were getting to the end of the war, but you didn’t have, the Tallboy wasn’t used so you weren’t on the, some of the later raids to the cities.
KJ: No. Although I did Tallboy raids.
CB: Yes.
KJ: Some, some of my raids we carried the Tallboy.
CB: Yeah.
KJ: But a lot of it was, at the beginning in particular, you were going for German cities and you’d drop incendiaries and then the bangers after that, if you call them that. But you lit the target up with incendiaries first.
CB: But the four thousand pounder.
KJ: Yeah. Strangely enough, a lot of aircrew didn’t trust them. They were, they were very touchy if they got disturbed. They were likely to go off.
CB: Really.
KJ: After say, an hour, because they got an hour’s timing on them and probably when they’d been put up under, in to the bomb bays, somebody might catch them and that started the timing off.
CB: Oh.
KJ: But you didn’t know but you’d, after an hour, as you were crossing the channel, you’d see suddenly one in front of you blow up.
CB: And that was why was it?
KJ: That were why. Yeah. Yes very —
CB: What did they have in them then, that made them so sensitive?
KJ: Well it was the timer.
CB: I meant the explosives. It was a combination was it? Explosives and incendiary?
KJ: Yeah.
CB: Was it?
KJ: No. High explosive bombs. No, I don’t think the incendiaries were as much to worry about.
CB: So you’re dropping Tallboys, and how accurate would you say you were doing that?
KJ: Well you’d got to be accurate because anybody that got outside the aiming point would get a real telling off. The bomb aimer would get, and of course the pilot wouldn’t be very pleased, so he’d put his two penneth in as well.
CB: And how well could you see the effect of those?
KJ: Oh on some raids you could see every bomb that dropped. See it hit the ground and see the explosion and everything, but, ‘cause the, with the Tallboy, when it hit the ground you’d get like throwing a pebble in water. You’d get them rings come up but they were pressure rings instead of —
CB: Yeah.
KJ: And if you got, if you were below eight thousand feet, they’d throw you all over the place if you got in that.
CB: Oh really.
CB: Oh yeah.
KJ: Yeah. Aye, ‘cause if we were dropping them, the rest of the force were told not to drop less than, not to go below eight thousand feet.
CB: But they didn’t explode on impact because they were designed for penetration weren’t they?
KJ: That’s right.
CB: So there was a delay?
KJ: Yeah. They’d an armour plating nose which buried in to the ground and then depending on the delay fuse, would depend on that when they went off.
CB: Now one of the targets for some time was U-boat pens. How well did they work on those?
KJ: With, I know we did U-boat, U-boat pens at Bergen in Norway and we’d got one hour timers on and they went through the top of the pen and they were half in the pen and the Germans thought they were duds but —
CB: Right.
KJ: On the hour they found out they weren’t.
CB: Right, but the hour delay was designed to get maximum effect of casualty.
KJ: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I say, they thought they were duds and by the time they found out they weren’t, it were too late.
CB: Viaducts. So you talked about those.
KJ: Pardon?
CB: With viaducts, were they effective on those?
KJ: Yeah. Oh yeah, because they used to bury under the, underneath and that caused them to crumble over.
CB: So how did you feel about it after you’d been on a raid?
KJ: [Laughs] Thankful that we’d come back. Yeah.
CB: I was thinking about your reaction to the result of your bombing.
KJ: Oh well, we were always pleased to see we, we’d made a mess of where we were bombing.
CB: Because unlike a normal raid, there wouldn’t be lots of smoke.
KJ: No. No. No.
CB: It would be clear cut, wouldn’t it? What you’d done.
KJ: Yeah. Yeah. As soon as a Tallboy hit the ground, you got those —
CB: Yeah.
KJ: Rings coming up.
CB: Shockwaves, yeah. And what about Grand Slams? Did you drop those as well?
KJ: We didn’t, no, there were only six. I think only three aircraft on 617 that were altered to carry them.
CB: Right.
KJ: Because they had no bomb doors on them.
CB: No.
KJ: Just they just went up, ‘cause the first time I saw them, I couldn’t believe my eyes. This damned great thing slung under an aircraft and no bomb doors. Aye.
CB: Did you do joint raids with 617, or were they all done separately?
KJ: No, the second tour, we were always with them, but the first tour was with general.
CB: Yeah, general bombing.
KJ: Bombing, yeah.
CB: Right. Thank you very much.
KJ: It’s a pleasure.
[Recording paused]
CB: Just one other thing, on the Tirpitz raids then, what happened there?
KJ: Well, they took the mid-upper turrets out altogether to lighten the load they were carrying, and they had a, they had a bigger bomb on, the twelve thousand pound bomb. But they were, they were special made bomb doors, they weren’t completely round, they’d got a dimple in them to go around the shape of the bomb.
CB: Right.
KJ: And every one of them bombs was turned in either Sheffield or Scotland, there were only two lathes big enough to do them. That’s why if we weren’t certain of the target, we had to bring them back.
CB: Expensive and scarce.
KJ: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CB: Right.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Ken Johnson. Two
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-04-03
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AJohnsonKA170403
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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01:39:45 audio recording
Description
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Ken Johnson was born in Doncaster. At the start of the war the family was living in Sheffield but his father decided they should move back to Doncaster to avoid bombing. Ken started work as a joiner and later made cables for barrage balloons. Despite being in a reserved occupation, he volunteered to join the RAF and trained in Scotland as an air gunner. He describes gunnery practice against towed targets and corkscrewing the aircraft. He formed a crew in the Operational Training Unit at RAF Bruntingthorpe. He talks about his pilot, Flight Sergeant Harold “Harry” Watkins, who fought in the Finnish Army against the Russians at the start of the war. Ken joined 61 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe flying Lancasters. His first operation was just after D-Day to bomb German armour but as they were too close to allied troops, it was aborted. Ken’s most traumatic experience was during an operation in July 1944, when an aircraft above his dropped its bombs and three bombs hit the aircraft including the rear turret, carrying it away with the rear gunner. On another occasion, anti-aircraft shrapnel missed Ken’s head by two inches. After completing a tour of thirty operations, most of Ken’s crew volunteered for a second tour. Transferred to 9 Squadron, many of his fifteen operations involved dropping the 12,000 lb Tallboy bomb. Ken describes the differences between the rear and mid-upper turrets including their armament. After the war, he served as an RAF driver in Egypt before being demobilised and returning to civilian life. He volunteered with the Royal Observer Corps for a couple of years.
Contributor
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Nick Cornwell-Smith
Vivienne Tincombe
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Pending revision of OH transcription
61 Squadron
9 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bomb struck
Lancaster
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bardney
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Dalcross
RAF Skellingthorpe
service vehicle
Tallboy
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1026/11398/AMcVicarK151222.1.mp3
8dbe392451014b9a5358deb7dce3dd85
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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McVicar, Kenneth George
K G McVicar
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ken McVicar (1810515 Royal Air Force). He served as a 'spare bod' air gunner with 619 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-12-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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McVicar, KG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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PL: Ok. So my name’s Pam Locker and I’m in the home of Mr Kenneth George McVicar and the date is the 22nd of December 2015.
KM: Yes.
PL: And I’d just like to start, Ken, by saying an enormous thank you on behalf of the International Bomber Command Trust for talking to us.
KM: Right.
PL: So we’ll start our interview. So I guess the first question would be to just ask you how you became involved in the first place.
KM: Right. Well, up to — I was a young man at, living in my home in Llanelli, South Wales and I decided I’d join the RAF. And unfortunately for me, for things that went afterwards they took a long time to contact me and I joined the RAF in, I forget now when it was. Anyway, I joined up and was sent to ACRC, which is the Bomber Command course at St John’s Wood, London and I stayed there for about a month and eventually I was posted down to Neath in Wales, which was only twenty miles away from my home. Anyway, I stayed at that, I did the ACRC course of six months and then I got posted again. And I was posted to RAF Sealand where I did some flying on a Tiger Moth for a fortnight but the weather was not good and I didn’t solo or anything like that. I went on to Heaton Park, Manchester where I was supposed to be going abroad with the, to continue the flying experience you see. But they had too many gunners and too many pilots and not enough gunners. So I decided I’d be a gunner even though it wasn’t my intention to be a gunner, I was. And I left that school and went up to Dalcross near, well what is, the airport for up that way, you know, in Scotland. And six weeks later I was a fully qualified gunner. So then I —
PL: So what was your training like?
KM: The training. Well shooting from the back of an Anson, sat in the mid-upper turret and two guns. Firing at a drogue which was drawn by another plane, well. I shot away and eventually I shot the wire which connected the drogue.
PL: So there was another plane.
KM: Yeah.
PL: Flying with wires coming down.
KM: Yeah.
PL: Holding on to a door.
KM: A drogue. A drogue.
PL: A drogue.
KM: Yes.
PL: Right. And you - and that was your target?
KM: That was my target, yes. I shot at this and eventually I shot the wire which was pulling it, see, and the drogue flew off and not seen again. I finally passed out as a sergeant. I was posted to Barford St John in, near Banbury and commenced training with Wellingtons when I met my first crew. And that was the pilot — Flying Officer Adams. And the navigator, Flying Officer Eddie Preedy. Staff Sergeant Gunner was from Canada and he was a bomb aimer. Sergeant Teddy Knox was the wireless operator. And Sergeant Jock Milne — the mid-upper gunner. I first met my first wife and got married in 1945. I continued my training and first sent to Swinderby to train on Stirlings and Lancasters until 26th of March 1945. Then I went to Woodhall Spa, you see, and that’s when I joined 617 Squadron as rear gunner. But as they had plenty of spare gunners there and we were flung off the squadron and went to 619 Squadron. Well the war was coming to an end, I was posted to Anglesey where I was classified, re-classified as a sergeant and ground crew, and as I was a clerk in civvy life it wasn’t long before I became a clerk in the RAF. I returned - while in India I was sent to Yelahanka, an aerodrome near Bangalore and remained there until I was discharged on the 17th of the 3rd 1947. I returned home to Wales and lived there with my parents where I applied to join the Metropolitan Police — which I did. And on the 17th of the 2nd my warrant number was 130491, issued and I went to Hendon to train as a police officer. My first posting was at Stoke Newington and I stayed there for a while until I went to Edgware where I qualified as a driver until I was promoted to sergeant having passed the examination, stationed at Paddington Green. The old Paddington Green. Later promoted to station sergeant and posted to Golders Green. And from there I became an inspector and I stayed at Enfield most of the time until I retired after having completed about twenty eight years.
PL: Amazing.
KM: Yeah.
PL: Amazing.
KM: And then of course by that time I’d met Josie and we eventually started living together and got married in, I forget now —
PL: 1980 was it?
KM: 1980.
Other: It wasn’t. It was 1974.
PL: ’74.
KM: ’74. Yeah. So that’s about a brief description of my life, oh aye —
PL: That’s a wonderful start. Can I take you right back.
KM: Aye.
PL: To the beginning.
KM: Yeah.
PL: And was there, what attracted you to the, to the RAF? What did you, did you have history? Did you have family history?
KM: No. I don’t have any family history. It’s just that I wanted to be, join the RAF. I always wanted to join the RAF from way back.
PL: From being a boy.
KM: Yeah, right.
PL: Right. Fantastic. And when you, your first squadron that you were involved with.
KM: Yeah. 617.
PL: 617 Squadron. How did you all, how did you all meet? Were you —
KM: Well we were posted to the 617 and then we had a lot of — I wanted to stay on 617 but they wouldn’t have me because I was a good shot, see, in the air. And that’s when they decided to get rid of me and there we are.
PL: There you are. So what actual active service did you see? Would you like to tell me about some of your experiences actually as an air gunner?
KM: I was an air gunner but I didn’t go on any trips or anything. I just sat in the back.
PL: Right.
KM: And —
PL: When you say sat in the back.
KM: Yeah.
PL: What do you mean by sat in the back?
KM: Sat in the turret.
PL: Right.
KM: Turret swinging to the left. Swinging to the right and shoot up. Of course the big bomb came along and there wasn’t any room for us then.
PL: Right .
KM: And as there more pilots and gunners than they wanted, nobody wanted me. So I went as a spare bod to 619 Squadron and we did there for a while, until the war was finishing then.
PL: So you did all that training.
KM: Yeah.
PL: And then you never had the opportunity to —
KM: To go and fire. Never.
PL: What did you think about that?
KM: Well I was hurt, yeah. Did all that training to be a gunner and then never went up in the air. So there you are.
PL: So what sort of period of time was that in the war? So this coming towards the end of the war?
KM: The war.
PL: Right. Ok. Ok. Ok.
KM: Yeah.
PL: So, your first wife. How did you meet her? Was she in the WAAF?
KM: Well, when I went to Barford St John, I met her. She was one of the girls that, you know, go up to and dance and things like that.
PL: Amazing. So are there any other experiences? I mean I’m very curious to hear what it was like on, you know, being at the airfield. Were you based at the airfield?
KM: Yeah.
PL: When you were doing your — ?
KM: Training.
PL: Right. Yeah. So what was that like for you all?
KM: Well it was alright I suppose. Waiting, the training of course. Jump in a plane and go off flying somewhere. We all had — my logbook. Flying logbook. Here it is. There we are.
PL: Thank you. Wonderful. Gosh. So these are all the times that you —
KM: Flew.
PL: You flew. And so when you, when you actually flew, were you, did you have to be in the gunner’s turret?
KM: Yeah. Turret. Yeah. All the time.
PL: That was always your —
KM: Always my station.
PL: Right.
KM: Yeah. In the turret.
PL: Right.
KM: Oh aye.
PL: And what was it like? Did you, did you feel claustrophobic at all?
KM: No. Not at all. Not at all. I felt at home.
PL: Really.
KM: Really at home.
PL: So you had the whole world at your feet.
KM: Yeah. And a heated suit.
PL: Sorry.
KM: A heated suit.
PL: Oh right.
KM: It was cold, you know, in the back.
PL: Of course.
KM: I was covered me head to toe. It was heated by the plane’s — plane heating system. You know.
PL: So when you went on to the plane did you go in any sort of order? Was there any sort of way in which everybody went in?
KM: Yeah. Up through the bottom. And up, jump up a ladder you know, and then I would step over the elsan, which was situated at the back and climb in, over in to the backseat and there I was master of my own dominion. Yeah.
PL: And did you feel part of the team?
KM: Of course. I was part, part of the team and if it had been when we were attacked I would direct, I would say to the skipper corkscrew left or depending on where he was coming from the left I would go that way and this way and down and up and at the time I would try to shoot him down, you see.
PL: Goodness.
KM: Aye.
PL: So I guess you were the guy they didn’t want to hear from.
KM: Yeah [laughs]
PL: A good trip would be when you were quiet the whole time. Right. Ok. So there were no active ops.
KM: No.
PL: Right. Ok. Ok. So did that apply, then, to your whole crew? You stayed together as a crew did you?.
KM: No.
PL: What happened to the others?
KM: The others stayed on 617.
PL: Right.
KM: And went flying with them as far as I know.
PL: Right. Right.
KM: I lost contact with them.
PL: Right. Right. Right.
KM: And I went on to a spare bod to the other place you see.
PL: Very good.
KM: Aye.
PL: So, so what year did you join? Did you actually join up? Do you remember?
KM: 1944, I’ve got it here. [pause] when I went to Sealand it was [pause] I think it was ’44 I think.
PL: In the RAF.
KM: ‘44. Aye.
PL: ’44. Ok so it must have been very frustrating for you.
KM: It was. Very frustrating. Having trained all that time, you know and then not go to.
PL: So how old were you in 1944?
KM: Oh I was eighteen. Eighteen.
PL: Goodness. So did lots of your friends join up at the same sort of time?
KM: Yes. And they were all coming from Wales and Scotland and all over England, you know to join. Same time.
PL: Is there anything else that you’d like to tell me about your, your experiences in Bomber Command before we move on to anything else.
KM: No. I don’t think so. Nothing happened to me you see. I was lucky as some say. As I say — unlucky.
PL: Well it’s just as important part of the story.
KM: Yeah.
PL: As everybody else’s part.
KM: Aye.
PL: It wouldn’t be a complete story.
KM: Aye.
PL: Without your contribution.
KM: Aye.
PL: So I guess one of the other things I’d like to ask you is how you felt about Bomber Command and how they were treated historically.
KM: Well Bomber Command were always second best to the first of the few. The fighters. You know, when they got their reward it was well and truly deserved of course and, but we should have had a reward then for our contribution.
PL: So how do you feel about the recognition that has come now?
KM: Now it’s alright. Now it’s alright of course. They’ve put that right. Everybody agrees now the role that the bomber boys had has come true.
PL: Fantastic. Thank you very much indeed Ken for talking to me today.
KM: Oh it was nothing.
[recording paused]
PL: Ok. So we’ve resumed recording because I just wanted to ask you Ken about what happened when the big bomb came. You talked about the big bomb. What was that and what were the implications for you?
KM: Well it was the Tallboy bomb. It was the biggest bomb we ever had and that’s why it was necessary to take out the one turret. To minimise the weight you see and allow the bomb to be carried. So it was only from that day that they needed one gunner instead of two see.
PL: And so who made that decision? And did that vary between crews or was it just a blanket decision from on high?
KM: Blanket decision.
PL: Ok. Thank you.
KM: Thank you.
PL: We’ll pause.
[recording paused]
PL: So we’re back on now. We were just having a conversation, Ken, about the fact that everybody volunteered for the RAF.
KM: Yes. Yes.
PL: I was just interested to know how you felt as such a young man joining up.
KM: Well it was great. You know. Get in the RAF. Do a job that was worth doing and it was wonderful.
PL: Did you feel excited by it?
KM: Yes. I was excited.
PL: But did you feel afraid as well?
KM: No. I didn’t feel afraid.
PL: Really.
KM: No.
PL: Very interesting. And did you, I mean as a young man I often think it must have been very interesting being a teenager during that time. Did you sort of feel like you were working towards your time?
KM: Yeah. Working towards my time with the RAF and joining a crew you know. To go and bomb.
PL: That’s very interesting.
KM: Tough for the people underneath who were receiving it of course but that wasn’t my worry.
PL: So do you think people did think about that?
KM: Yes. They did think about it but they couldn’t do anything about it anyway. No.
[recording paused]
PL: Put this back on. So we’re recording again. So you were this young man full of vim and vigour.
KM: Aye.
PL: But you weren’t afraid.
KM: No.
PL: But you knew about the statistics.
KM: Yes. I had a cousin that were training and lost him on training you see. Yeah.
PL: But you still did it. You still went ahead and did it.
KM: Oh yes. You couldn’t go back you see. Well you didn’t think about that. Going back.
PL: Very good. Very good. Thank you.
[recording paused]
PL: So we’ve starting recording again. So we were just talking, Ken, about you know this young man who was there in your own world. Master of all you surveyed.
KM: Yeah.
PL: Waiting and checking the sky.
KM: Yeah.
PL: For, for other planes.
KM: Aye.
PL: And believing that you would be victorious.
KM: Aye.
PL: If there was a problem and the plane was hit in any way, what happened then?
KM: Well I would turn my turret to port, pull the doors open on the back and flip myself out, see. And go down then. I had a clear run.
PL: With your, with your parachute.
KM: Parachute. Aye. And all I had to do was put it to port and flip myself out you know.
PL: So did you do all of that during your training I guess? You had practice runs did you?
KM: Yeah. Yeah. We had practice runs but nobody jumps out of a perfectly good aircraft when its flying alright do they?
PL: So how? So you just literally, you did some, you had the experience of a parachute drop though did you? In your training.
KM: Yeah.
PL: But not from the turret.
KM: From — we done from a static point in the, jumped about, I don’t know, and then it was suspended and then you pull a certain thing and down you came you see.
PL: Goodness gracious. So you didn’t actually go up in an aeroplane.
KM: No. Had to do it.
PL: Goodness me. So, so if there had been an emergency that would have been the first time.
KM: The first time and the last time you would wave bye bye to them, to the crew.
PL: What, that was the deal.
KM: That was the deal.
PL: Is that what everybody used to say? You would have to wave bye bye to the crew.
KM: Aye.
PL: Goodness me. Wonderful. You see all of these things are just taken for granted by you.
KM: Yeah.
PL: But for the people who are listening to this recording they won’t know those sorts of details.
KM: No.
PL: It seems extraordinary in the twenty first century that you would be sent to war.
KM: Yeah.
PL: And never actually jumped out of an aircraft.
KM: No [laughs] It’s quite safe though to jump out, you see.
PL: What do you think about your generation?
KM: I don’t think, well my generation, if it happened again I would go, of course, even though I’m no good now. But it was the thing to do, see. Everybody did it. Everybody thought the same and it was just one of those things.
PL: Wonderful. Thank you very much Ken.
KM: Alright.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Kenneth George McVicar
Creator
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Pam Locker
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-12-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMcVicarKG151222
Format
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00:31:03 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Kenneth George McVicar was born in Llanelli, South Wales and joined the Royal Air Force at the age of 18, where he qualified as a Gunner. He Flew in Ansons as mid upper gunner turret, but also on Stirlings and Lancasters. He tells of how he went to serve in 617 Squadron but since they had a surplus of gunners, he was moved to 619 Squadron. He recollects the arrival of the Tallboy bomb and how the adaptation caused a gun turret to be removed. With the war coming to an end, Ken became a clerk in the Royal Air Force before being posted to India. On his return home to Wales, he joined the Metropolitan Police, rising to the rank of sergeant and he retired after about 28 years of service.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales
India
Contributor
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Vivienne Tincombe
617 Squadron
619 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Lancaster
Stirling
Tallboy
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/650/8920/ATrentKL160112.1.mp3
ad84d3cea1d3ea2508452abb41103142
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Trent, Kenneth
K L Trent
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Trent, KL
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Kenneth Lionel Trent DFC (1922 - 2018, 176283 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He flew operations as a pilot with 576, 625, 617 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
KT: Put your hand up when you –
CB: Yeah.
KT: Are fed up with what I’m saying.
CB: Right.
KT: Or if I’m saying too much of one particular subject. Is it running?
CB: So, my name is Chris Brockbank and we’re in St Helier and we’re just going to talk with Ken Trent about his experiences in the war as a bomber pilot and he did two tours. So if you’d like to start from your earliest recollections please Ken.
KT: Well my first [pause] I started — the first thing I can remember I should say is sitting in the back of a London taxi. I would be how old? Four? Three? Something like that. With my sister and my father. It was in the spring. It was a beautiful day and the pram hood was open on the taxi and we were — it was — but it wasn’t a happy journey. We were going to the [Will Abingdon?] Wing of the Middlesex Hospital to see my mum who was seriously ill. But God looked down on her and she got better and lived another nineteen years which was — but she still died at a very young age of fifty eight. Still, we survived this and then we come to the school. The first school I went to with my sister was St Peter’s, funnily enough. I go to a St Peter’s Church now. And it was across Goodmayes Park. We lived in Becontree and it was across Goodmayes Park and it was a little church school. My mum showed us the way there two or three times and of course in these days you could. Children were quite safe walking around and they used to play in the streets and all this sort of stuff whereas today you know it’s not quite so safe. Well, after we learned the way we used to, we walked to school and we did this for a few days and then we thought it would be a good idea — it was better to play in the park. We had to go cross Goodmayes Park and so we stayed in the park. The biggest problem was to find out the time so that, because we didn’t have clocks but we didn’t want to turn up at home at the wrong time. So as young as we were we weren’t completely stupid. But nevertheless it was only maybe ten or fifteen pupils that went out. Two didn’t turn up. They telephoned and my mum said, ‘Well, they were —’ and of course, so she goes in the park, she finds us and we were in a lot of trouble. She wouldn’t hit us or anything like that but we were in serious trouble. We never did it again. Well we got a little bit older. My mum and dad had a shop in 131 Becontree Avenue and they sold everything and it had a sub post office there. And you know [pause] I’m drying up for the moment.
CB: We can stop for a mo.
KT: Yeah. Just for a second.
[Recording paused]
KT: Ok. I’ve got it. We had a — my dad was a sub post master there. Now, the area was where they had cleared out the slums from East London. And basically I’m an East Londoner and I’m very happy about it. Very proud to be one. And a good Cockney as they say. Anyway, my dad sent me as we grew up and I became old enough he sent me to the local council school and after about a month or a couple of months I came home and the language was not too charming. I don’t think it was swearing but the accent, you know. It was pretty broad. Getting very broad and he didn’t fancy this. So he got me organised in a school in Loughton as a boarder. And the word Loughton School for boys. There weren’t many boarders there. The school would be something like two hundred pupils. There was, there were four boarders and we ate all our meals with the headmaster on the big table and he really eyed over our behaviour and table manners and etcetera etcetera. So at least I learned how to eat in company. Then he had a daughter. Cynthia. I can remember when we were having sausages for breakfast one morning and she said, ‘Daddy do they shoot sausages?’ and you know, it’s kind of funny we thought at the time. Anyway, Cynthia and I were good mates and of course we got caught in the rhododendrons. We thought we weren’t being seen. Finding out the differences between ourselves which I suppose is quite normal of kids at that age. All very innocent. Then following that I mean I was at the school for quite a few years but at one stage and it was at the end when I was ready to go. To to be moved on to another school that I had, we were playing I’m the king of castle, get down you dirty rascal and they pushed me off and I, my feet got caught. I fell down. A kid was running by and he kicked me on the head quite accidentally and so I’m laid out. And it developed into a haemorrhage. An internal haemorrhage in my head. And it showed itself. It was right at the end of term and it showed itself during the holidays. Anyway, they got over all that and or I did but I was in bed for about seven, eight weeks and I wasn’t allowed to get up and I had to keep as still as possible but it all got better. We then, the next thing that happened they entered me into Framlingham College in Suffolk. I think you could call it The Albert Memorial College and it’s in Framlingham and there’s a massive statue of Prince Albert there. But it was normally known as Framlingham College. Well, I went there and I was just on the edge from — I was just a little bit right at the end of junior school so they put me straightaway, this is in the Christmas term and they put me straightaway into the senior school. Now, to be — I completely and utterly wasted my parent’s money. I didn’t work. Apart from maths and arithmetic I, because mainly the headmaster used to take some of the lessons and I got on extremely well with him. Mr Whitworth was his name. And he sailed. And by this time I was very interested in sailing. I’ve been going on about the school but I haven’t talked about the holidays. And I’ll go on with them in a minute. So we go back to holidays. My parents had a little, you would call it a wooden shack on the beach at St Osyth which is known as Toosie St Osyth. There’s a priory there. Well if you go straight down onto the beach onto the, towards the sea, it was on the sea wall. It had about four rooms. It was a wooden shack and it was kind of built on stilts because the front of it was on the ground and the back of it was on stilts because the sea wall was underneath. It was wonderful for us children and there was my sister who was a couple of years older than me, myself and my cousin, Jean. And we, in Easter and summer we were there [noise on microphone] Ok? Yeah. We were there more or less all the time. And our parents would come down and to see us. Now, you imagine three kids and we were all very responsible as it turned out but you wouldn’t think we would be. But we had a ball. We learned how to be self sufficient. We did our own cooking at this very young age. We had a few shillings. We could go. I mean a few pounds I expect but I can’t remember, but there was a fish and chips, or a chippie as they say today, in a hut as you, as you drive over into the area. As you arrive. And we’d go there for fish and chips sometimes. But we, and my parents would come down. Only one of them because the other one would have to be in the shop. Fine. Now, we’ll go back to school. The school, when you get to Framlingham the majority of the pupils came from very wealthy families and some of them [pause] Barry Grant was a pal. He turned out to be a pal of mine. And right at the start he was a wonderful, wonderful musician who had, until he’d got to Framlingham had never had a lesson. But he was in demand. They lived in the Leigh area. You know in Southend and Leigh on the east coast. And he was in the area. He was in. He was required by the cinemas to play the organ in between the films. I think they were Compton organs that used to rise up out of the ground. So when I say he was a wonderful musician this was untrained natural ability. Of course he had his lessons also. You know, music lessons at Fram. So, you would, to give an example you would have a boy, a senior boy who’s got his driving licence or maybe with an L plate would drive to school at the beginning of term in a posh car. Little car. And then they’d take the trunk off the back, in. And the chauffeur would drive it back home. Well, I mean, you know I come out from the East End. My dad’s running an East End little shop and this was another world. Something I’d never ever come across and couldn’t believe but I wanted it. But I still didn’t work at school. I was in all sorts of trouble. Now, the boys. The majority of them, the parents, they were able to ring up the local town Framlingham, the grocer’s shop and get whatever they wanted delivered and they could put it in their tuck box. But we couldn’t do anything like this. We got a shilling a week. And you know their tuck boxes were full. Ours were empty after about a week. Anyway, I had to do something about this and I discussed it with Barry. And we decided that we would go in to the booze and fags business. And we [pause] first of all you’ve got to get out of the school. Well now the school locks up and when its locked they have to have provision for fire. And so by all exit doors there was a little box with a glass front and a key hanging in it and you smashed the glass front and opened the door. So I pinched the key before the end of term. I unscrewed the front of the box. Didn’t break the glass. Put any old key in there. Pinched their key. We put it all back as it was. And then when I’m home our next door, the shop next door was, I used to call him Uncle Dick. Dick Linnington. And Dick was, had been shipwright. Had been a sailor. Had been at sea all his life and I suppose he packed up around about fifty. And he’d started this shop. And amongst other things he cut keys. And it was all done with files. No machines. So he cut me a key. And when I got back I put the proper key back and my key fitted alright. And then we had a large bag that we could cart between us and so off we went to Framlingham Castle. And you’d walk around the back of the school. We came out at the back, go between the tuck shop and the chapel and then you went over a stile into a field and you could walk straight across a couple of fields and you were near Framlingham Castle. And right tucked under, just by the castle was a boozer. A pub. And we went in there and we bought as much as we could afford because I didn’t have much money. As much beer as we could, in bottles. It was just draught beer. The cheapest. In any, in any bottles that they had and they had screw tops so, you know, you could reuse them. And it might have stout. It might have light ale. Brown ale. Bitter. Or whatever. But it was all the same beer regardless. And we had a few packets of fags and we took them back and we found, gradually, carefully found a few customers. And they had to be warned to be very very careful of the cigarette butts. But the bottles — we wanted them back. Well, we actually, we were doing very well with this. We were getting something like between four and five shillings a week each. And in those days I mean our shilling a week, no we would get something like about five shillings a week between us. About two and six. Half a crown each. Which, when you consider that our weekly money, you know, pocket money was a shilling. We multiplied it. Anyway, we were doing alright. Well when we dragged this lot back and go down the corridor into the chapel and Barry of course. I was in the choir and when I was sitting in the choir I could see him pumping the organ and I had seen him take a sip out of the communion wine before now. Anyway, we stored the stuff in the organ and I mean at times Barry played the organ and then I was pumping it. We had quite a nice little business but nobody ever found out and we escaped. Now, I expect you know I’m writing a book and I wonder, I just wonder what they’re going to think when they, when they read this. Anyway, apart from that I was lazy. I was quite good at tennis, table tennis and squash. I mean there were everything was available there. From swimming, you know. There was rugby in the winter. In the Christmas term. Hockey. And cricket of course in the next two terms. And then there was riding. Tennis. All sorts of stuff on the side. Ok. Well we get to the end. The day before I left school I got the stick from prefects for smoking. I mean me. Getting caught smoking and I’d been so careful. Nobody had been rumbled with cigarettes. Well they may have been rumbled but they never — they didn’t leave butts around. We’d got them all, the smokers, pretty well trained who were our customers. But then I got caught. Stick off prefects is not a very pleasant thing. You, it’s at 9.30. After prayers. And you were in your pyjamas and you go down to the set room and it was four strokes. I think it says six in the book but that’s a bit of an exaggeration. It was four strokes and they, the prefects, there were two of them. One of them who I can remember distinctly. His name was Bellamy and he was in the first eleven as a fast bowler. Well, they would have a run up of about seven or eight, ten paces and run in and lay it on as hard as ever they could. And by the time you’d got four strokes — the biggest thing you mustn’t make a noise. I mean you’ve got to show, ‘Sod them. They’re not going to get me.’ And you’ve got to shut your mouth and keep it shut and just let them do it. As the thing that you just let them do it. Let’s do it. Just get there and just accept it. And of course when you’ve finished if you’re lucky you’ve just got massive bruising with welts on your bum. And if you’re unlucky you might have a little drop of blood. But you know I know this sounds in this day and age absolutely terrible but it did me no harm at all. And I realised that you know the rules. You break the rules you go for what you’ve got to get. But the people it may have damaged are the people that were dishing it out because they looked after their canes and they got anti-shock absorbers and stuff you know which I don’t think was very good training but nevertheless it happened. And that was the system as it was ninety, eighty years ago. Right. I left. And I left [pause] and for the winter term 1939 war was declared. I got myself a job. No. That’s really not true. I was lucky enough to get a job because my dad knew the chairman of John Knights. The soap company. And the job was really — I was obviously going in the services so it was a kind of semi, it was, it was a fill in and I must have been there for quite some time but all of a sudden all the men disappeared and the ladies, girls and ladies and women were taking over the running. It was a fantastic effort that they put in and they made a wonderful job. It wasn’t long before — and the other thing the company moved from Silvertown to Loughton. Strangely enough Loughton where I’d been at school. In a very large house with a lot of outbuildings and the office was all run from there and they’d fixed it all up. And I worked very very hard. I would stay the night in the big building all night. I camped in the big building and I had to keep — you know, things were different. There was a war on and everybody had to try and do their bit and I suddenly found although I didn’t do any work at school at all. Terribly lazy. I suddenly found there was an object in this and I could work until the job was done. And I did. And I worked. I worked all the hours and sometimes up to 10 o’clock at night and then I would camp down in this big house and there were — I mean I wasn’t the only one. There would be one or two others camping there as well. This was the spirit of England at that time. Anyway, it wasn’t very long before I found myself running the London forward section. The forward meaning arranging the invoicing and statements. No. I don’t think statements. Invoicing and organising deliveries to people in the London, to shops in the London area. Well at the time I was still there when the Channel Islands were taken over and although it didn’t affect me there was a big panic going on because of the money that was owing and orders to the various places. Nevertheless, I was also a member of the — what did they call it? Cadets. RAF cadets. Locally in Ilford. And we used to go there and you know I would be about eighteen and I thought I ought to join up and I would have only just been eighteen because it was December. And my eighteenth birthday would be in November. And so I applied to join the RAF. What as? I said pilot. And I really regretted not working at home, you know. At school I should say. I really regretted that because if I had I would have had no problems and I was thinking I’d never pass any of the exams. I’ll never pass the exams. Nevertheless, in just a few weeks I’m called to Uxbridge and I go down there and the exams were not that hard. And I did the exams. That was fine. Then we had to have an interview and I thought — well if they see my school record what chance have I got? It’s going to be absolutely dreadful. And you know this is something. Anyway, I’m worried. I wanted to be a pilot so much. I, eventually there was about seven or eight of us outside a room and you know, somebody had gone in and then he had come out and he said, ‘Trent. You’re next.’ So, I went in. Stood to attention and there was a bloke. Immaculately dressed. About ten years older than me. A bit older than me and he started off, ‘Where did you go to school?’ I said ‘Loughton School for Boys.’ And then I moved on as I got older. Oh I called it a prep school. It wasn’t a prep school but it sounded better, Loughton School, Prep School for Boys. Anyway, then — and the the next school? I said, ‘Framlingham College.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Which house?’ I said Garrett. ‘Oh’, he said, ‘I was in Garrett House as well.’ I got no problem. I’m in. and he said, you know, and all we talked about was school and Rupe and Pop and Colonel and all the other masters and stuff and those were their nicknames. Anyway, so I’m in. I go home and just a short time after that — maybe a month six weeks, I get a [pause] I, yes I think I went, no — I went to Uxbridge. And then from Uxbridge, there was a bunch of us, we were given railway warrants to Torquay. Number 9 RW. Receiving Wing. And we arrived down there and they kitted us out with all the stuff and were starting to march us up and down. Showing us how to make your bed for the daytime so that all the sheets are folded in a certain way and the blankets and all the, well for want of a better word the bull shit that they have in the services. And there they also I mean they started the marching and this, that and the other and also polishing your bloody boots. All the equipment that was issued including a thing called a hussif and the hussif was your needle and stuff like this for repairing your clothes and the word derives from housewife. Anyway, we also had loads of injections which made us feel a bit rough. But after, it was only about a week, seven or eight days we were posted to [pause] I can’t remember the number and I’ve got it in the book but it was an IT, Initial Training Wing at Stratford On Avon which is a beautiful lovely town. And we were in the Shakespeare Hotel right on the top of, you know, the top hotel in there. The only trouble is they’d taken out all the goodies but it was still a lovely place to be. We started the lectures. You know, there’s maths and navigation, theory of flight, instruments, map reading. You know, general things you would think you would need. And I worked hard. And, you know, just as an aside we used to church parade on a Sunday and I’m not sure if we got — I think we got a half a crown a day. That’s the seventeen and six a week and because I wanted to survive the war I thought it might be a good idea to give God a good donation every Sunday. So he got five bob of my seventeen and six every week. And I don’t know. Silly. But I did it, you know. That’s how you feel, and I’ve always attended church when possible and still do. Anyway, so, mind you with the behaviour things you wonder [laughs] you know. But there’s got to be some bad Christians as well as good ones. Anyway, so I went on from there. We had the exam. And all of sudden there was a massive panic. And before you could say, ‘Pack your bags. Pack your bags.’ Go to West Kirby. Or is it East Kirby? It’s by Liverpool. And we are — West Kirby isn’t it? Yes. And we are put aboard the Leopoldville which was a dirty old Polish tramp steamer. And we’re off. We’re off. We don’t know where we’re going. The boat’s going. But we wind up in Iceland. Now, on the way there was one big room with camps [pause] with what do you call them?
CB: Hammocks. Hammocks.
KT: Hammocks. That’s right. I couldn’t get the word. With hammocks. And underneath there were tables and underneath there’s the deck or the floor. And there were — guys were spread in the hammocks, on the tables, under the tables on the floor. And do you know I think being a bit on the selfish side I found a little corner for myself in a corridor and I slept. It was only a few days. Three, four or five days. And I slept — and in the corridor. Well one morning the old, you know, weather had gone a bit sour. The sea was getting up and the old tub was rolling all over the place and in the morning when I went into the big room there was about, I don’t know how much, a foot of water, a couple of feet of water and as the boat was rolling it was sloshing from one side to the other. Because they hadn’t secured the portholes properly and so every now and again until they got them secured they had like full steam hose. You know. And of course there was now a big dry out required and one thing or another. But I was happy in my little corner and I was very lucky. I must tell you the toilets. They were so absolutely abysmal. It was a plank. A big plank with several holes cut in it and it was on the port quarter. Secured. With hand holds. That’s where you performed in front of each other. But it was quite efficient because they just used to hose the deck off and it all used to go over the side so that, because the boat didn’t have sufficient toilet arrangements for the people, the number aboard. Anyway, we got to Iceland. We get unloaded and we go inland to a place called Helgafell. We were, we were sleeping in half built Nissen huts. We’d all got camp beds. Not camp beds. What do you call them? Sleeping bags and all this stuff and our kit bags and this and we slept in these Nissen huts. You know, one end, the end we were in, one end was open but there was lots of us and we were all started on the floor. And then when you woke up in the morning you weren’t cold and you’d all squash together in one big lump of human flesh and everybody was warm and it was ok. It wasn’t as bad as it sounds. We ate there. Well one of the things in Iceland they’ve got hot springs and of course we’d got to have a go at that. It mean it was not warm and it wasn’t the middle of winter. It would be spring. It would be but it was a bit of snow around but not — it wasn’t too bad. So we were in there. All of us. Oh about twenty. Twenty, thirty of us. All out of our hut swimming. Hot. Beautiful. Smashing. And then all of a sudden a whole load of young girls turned up and they all get in. They’re all swimming. And they’re in the nude as well. So we couldn’t get out of the water and it was tricky. Anyway, we get back into town and we are put aboard a large liner and I don’t know the name of it. It was not the QE, the Queen Elizabeth. We went to Halifax. We’re stuck on a train for five days going to Swift Current which was where our EFTS — Elementary Flying Training. The journey was long. The trains are enormous. They are over a mile long. The whole lot makes England’s train system look as if its Hornby. Anyway, when we got to Winnipeg [pause] no. It was Trenton. I beg your pardon. It definitely wasn’t Winnipeg. It was Trenton. They had laid on, the powers that be had laid on a dance and they’d got a load of local girls with finger, finger stuff to eat and this, that and the other. And it was all very kind and lovely but then the Canadians are lovely because basically my family are all Canadian bar my sister and myself. So, then we eventually get to Swift Current and then we start with the lessons and then you know, you work hard and the actual work, the whole thing was easy. We had an interesting character on our course called Jimmy Edwards who I expect most of you have heard of and know. He did, at the beginning of the lectures before the lecturer had turned up he would stand in the front with his cane and doing exactly the same thing as he did after the war on television and in the theatre for millions of pounds. Anyway, that was Jimmy. The interesting bit is the first time you fly. And you go around. I can’t remember the name of my instructor. He was not liked. The other two pupils. There were three. He had three pupils. The other two asked to be exchanged, to change. To change. I really got on with him. He was, for me, just the right guy and he takes you around. There’s a Pitot head and you check your Pitot tube. You have to make sure the Pito tube doesn’t have a sock over it to look after it. And you check the ailerons, rudder, elevators and general look around and you look in the cockpit. This is the first time I’d ever seen. You know, you can imagine the excitement. Got the flying gear on. All the business. And you look and he was explaining the bits and pieces. And needle, ball and air speed is the basic thing for a Tiger. Anyway, we get in and he takes the thing off. And he instructed me to hold the stick with — between my fingers and not with a grip. And I suppose this is in case you freeze on it. Anyway, at take off and he showed me how to fly straight and level. You know, you’ve got to get the needle and the ball and you’ve got to maintain the same airspeed. And you know, it was not difficult and it wasn’t very long. Maybe ten minutes, quarter of an hour before I got the hang of just flying straight and level. I hadn’t done any turns or anything like that. And he said, ‘Now ease the stick forward. Ease the stick forward. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.’ And he said, ‘Now you’re doing about a hundred and twenty. Now ease it back. Back. Back. Come on. Back. Back.’ Bingo. We did a loop. And I did it. So the first time I ever got in an aeroplane I did a loop. And that to me is something. Anyway, then he shows you how to, you know rate one turns and turning. To give you the whole description would take a long time. So we go on, come in and land and he shows me how to land and you know he does this three or four times and then he lets me have a go with the, with the stick and he’s kind of guiding me. But anyway, this is kind of normal. The way we trained. And this went on for a while. Over a few days, maybe a couple of weeks and I can’t remember the hours. I’ve got them written down. I can’t remember, I think they were just short of four hours. Three forty, three fifty hours I had done at the time and I’d just done a landing and I’d taxied to turn into wind again to take off and in my book I said, “God got out.” And he said, you know, he just got out. ‘See what you can do.’ And I took off. No problem. And I’m in the air going up and I’m screaming at the top of my voice, ‘Mummy, if you could see me now.’ And I came around and did the thing. Came in and did, as far as I remember a pretty good landing. I don’t know. Anyway, I got it on the ground so it must have been good. But I couldn’t leave it. I opened the taps again and did another circuit. And i thought, ‘God, I’m going to be in trouble for that.’ I came in and landed and I would have loved to have done another one but I turned and taxied up to him thinking I’m going to be in trouble. And he was so pleased. But I got on with him all the time. They moved from Swift Current. They moved the whole — oh I must tell you. While I was there we bought a car. Four of us. Two dollars fifty each. It was a Model T Ford. It was another thing to start a Model T Ford in cold. Thirty below, forty below because this is by the — now we’ve gone through the summer. We’re in the winter. Zero. I’ve got to tell you quickly. You jack up the back wheel. Of course there’s no water. That’s all out. You stick the handle in the front. You don’t switch on because there’s a magneto and you just wind the handle and it’ll start. I wonder if I’ve got this right. I think it is. Anyway, it starts and you leave it warming for a while. Now you want some hot water. Some hot water with you. And after you’ve got it running and it has warmed up a bit you stop it, pour the water in, restart and it should start no problem. No. Sorry. You don’t stop it. You just pour the water in the radiator but if it stops you’ve got to get the water out of the radiator straightaway because it’ll be frozen in no time. Anyway, and the tap will work because the tap will be hot. Anyway, as soon as you’ve got that and you get it running for a while then you have to stop it and put the fan belt on because the fan belt drives the water pump. But before you do that you’ve got to pour water on the water pump to thaw it out. And then you put the fan belt on. Start it. And now you want somebody to push you off the jack. And then you’re away. It’s quite a car to drive actually because the handbrake is part of the gearing mechanism. So if you’ve got the hand break is on now you take it half way off and you’ve got a pedal that you press and when you push that the car goes forward. And then you put the handbrake off and then take your foot off the pedal, off the pedal and you are in top gear. So if you are on the ground and — if you’re stationery I should say and you start it and then you take the handbrake all the way off it promptly stalls because you’re putting it in top gear. Anyway, there we are. That’s enough of that one. We moved to Innisfail. The whole outfit. And we weren’t allowed to drive the car. It was about four hundred miles. We flew the aircraft and we got two ground crew and we got them permission and they drove it the four hundred miles and they had a wonderful holiday apparently because by — anyway then we flew and there was, it was very easy. You know, it’s easy flying in Canada because everything is marked in squares and all the roads go north or south. North south or east west. And you can’t go wrong. All you’ve got to know is the latitude and it is so easy. Anyway, we get there and we had a Chinook wind. Now a Chinook — it’s a very hot. It’s very hot and it was over night and the whole place is white and covered in snow and the snow would have been on the ground unless there had been a previous Chinook wind. It would have been on the ground since about September-time as it fell and it would stay there if there was no Chinook wind right the way through until the spring. But we had, they do get, in Alberta they do get a few Chinook winds and the — when you wake up in the morning most of the snow has gone. All the snow on the ground but the stuff in the hilly or where there were big drifts, yes there would be snow there but basically it had gone. But the thing it did it thawed out the top of the lakes and so all of a sudden you’ve got water on top of lakes and then a couple of nights later it’s all frozen again and you’ve got ideal skating conditions. Anyway, we met a couple of, they were, you know the Canadians were very good and very nice to us and in the [pause] they were asking us to their homes for a meal and stuff and my pal Bob Sergeant and I got invited to a Mrs McGee for a meal. And when we got there she was, she was a widow. Her husband had died and she had two beautiful daughters. Just right. And they were around about, you know, our age or maybe just a little bit less but more or less our age. And of course it wasn’t very long before the rest of our stay in Innisfail. This is, I don’t know if I told you we went from Innisfail from Saskatoon er Swift Current. To Alberta. To Innisfail which is not far from Calgary. Anyway, so we had a great time with the girls and finishing the course, took the exams and then I was posted, along with the rest of the course to North Battleford in Saskatchewan. And then big disappointment — onto Airspeed Oxfords. So that meant I wasn’t going to be one of these lovely boys with the Battle of Britain guys who used to be at High Beach with all the best birds and a little car and stuff like this with their wings. And these were the Battle of Britain guys. And this was the thing that, I used to go to High Beach with my bicycle and this was really part of the reasons why I joined the air force. To see them. Well, so I’m going to be a bomber pilot. And we did the course. There was no problem with the course. One of the strange things, well, one of the things that happened — we were on a — of course there was a big thing about navigation and etcetera. So, navigation. I was up as the navigator and there was another pupil as a pilot and we had a route to take and I got utterly and completely lost. But there’s a bonus also in Canada because they have grain elevators and I came, we came down or he came down and we read the name of the grain elevator and it was Humboldt in Saskatchewan. I had an auntie who lives in Humboldt and actually she’s been to Jersey where I live now. This was years ago. Forty odd ago. And she’s been here with us when our children were very small. And she lived to a hundred and ten. And she died when she was a hundred and ten. Auntie Dorothy. Well, it was, it was her home town but having found that out and I found my way back to where we should have been but I made a complete imagination of the course I should have done. Filled in wind drifts and everything else and it was just a load of [pause] it wasn’t rubbish because it was as my guess for what would have, you know what it would have been like if we’d done the right thing and I put it in and with my fingers crossed it was going to be all right. And I got a passed. I can’t believe it but I did. Anyway, we eventually, we get to the wings exam and there were a hundred and forty of us. A hundred and forty passed it. I don’t know how many, how many failed. But Jimmy Edwards was twenty second and I was fifteenth. So I had worked hard. The first forty got commissions. But I, don’t forget I was out of the east end of London really and I was not considered to be officer material. Well I think really they’re right. Anyway, I didn’t, I didn’t get a commission. I was made a sergeant pilot and then the worst deal of all of course I’d sewn my wings on. That was about two minutes after. As soon as I got in. The first thing. We were all doing it. Anyway, I was posted to [pause] I can’t remember the number. It was a bombing and gunnery school at Mont-Joli on the banks of the St Lawrence in province Quebec. It was on the south bank facing north and it was literally just a few hundred yards away from the airfield. And we were flying Fairey Battles. And some of them had a gun at the back and they had UT pilots. Not pilots. Gunners under training. And then there would be two or three others that used to tow drogues. And the guys used to fire into the drogues. And so we were doing fifteen, twenty minute flights up and down up and down with different gunners all the time. I mean it might have been twenty five minutes — the flights. I can’t remember. But then you’ve got to taxi in, turn around, taxi out and take off and do another lot. And it was horrible. I [pause] I wanted, I joined the air force to get in the war and this wasn’t the war. And I just, I got back in to my very rebellious ways again and didn’t do everything right by a long way and of course the flying. It was so boring. I was really sticking my neck out. The first — what the hell was the first thing. There were three major things. One of them. Oh I know. The first one I was, I mean this was not like the western Canada. This is all hills and its beautiful beautiful countryside with hills, valleys and vales and its picturesque and a beautiful area. And absolutely great for fun with an aeroplane because the first thing that I did and never got known — it never became known but it nearly killed me. I’m flying up a valley as low as I can go and all of a sudden I’ve got a complete wall in front of me. The valleys ended and I don’t know what you call it. There would be a name for it. And I haven’t got enough room to turn around. And as soon as I saw it I got as much, I got a bit more height. As much as I could. I went as close to the port side as I possibly could. Stood the thing right on side and yanked the, you know got the stick right back and the bank at the end — must have missed that by about maybe a hundred feet. Maybe twenty. I don’t know but it was close. And then the bank the other side. But you live and I learn. But that’s if you live. And I learned. And the next thing I’m flying over — this is a period of quite a few months, I’m flying over a lake, and I’m going. Its ice and its winter and it’s and all of a sudden boom boom boom boom boom and it’s not much faster than that. I thought a propeller touching the ice would be brrrrrr but it’s not. It’s bang bang bang bang bang. Anyway, I eased the stick back and she came off. Now if you pull the stick back you hit your tail wheel on the ice and that would be curtains. So I was lucky. I didn’t really know but I eased the stick back, came off and the whole lot is like a big shaking machine because the propeller’s all out of balance and it was absolutely dreadful. So I went up to three thousand. I got up to something like three thousand feet and flew back to base and I thought well now the engine can’t stand this for long. It’s going to pack up and I’ll stick it on the ground on it’s, without the wheels and they won’t see anything about the propeller. And I flew. But you know the Merlin engine is a bit better than that. And I wound around in the end and I’ve got no fuel left. Well I had fuel but it was just a little fuel. I was running out of fuel so I came in and landed and I landed with the brakes on or I put them on straight away with the stick as far forward as I could get it thinking she’d stand up on her nose. But it didn’t happen. Went down and then the tail flopped down. Of course I hadn’t got any brakes. I’d burned them out. Well I taxied in and on Mont-Joli there was a big ditch both sides of the taxi strip. And so you’ve got to go faster and faster and faster to maintain your direction because [pause] and in the end I just cut the engines and she went on and she did a big circle to the left and she came up. I’ve got — she came up right outside the CFI’s, Chief Flying instructor’s office. Right bang outside with a bent prop. And he was out of that office before you could say knife. And he swallowed the story. I said I’d run into a snowdrift and that was right. But the station commander was a different cup of tea. He was older. He had grown up children and he said, ‘Come on. I’ll take you. Show me the marks on the runway,’ and there weren’t any marks of course. So, he said, ‘Now I know what you were doing. Now, tell me. I’m not going to do anything about it.’ And he wanted me to admit that I’d lied and I wouldn’t. So I carried the lie on. Rightly or wrongly I did. I said. I didn’t tell him. I stuck to my story. Well I know it was a big mistake because it had repercussions later. Oh months. A couple of months. Later on there was. Anyway, I was up but for the first time ever I was pulling a drogue. Now, I’d never, I was, you know I’d always had the fighter guys. You know the gunner guys. Anyway, so we’d done the exercising and one thing and another. And then you come over the dropping area. You drop the zone and then the drogue and then you circle around, land. And that’s that. Well, I thought before I do that I’ll do a few steep turns and watch the drogue go past me in the opposite direction. I thought well that would be a bit different. And I did that. Now, when you come out of a steep turn you take, a steep turn is you’ve got the kite almost on its side. Not quite. With the stick well back and the stick which is the elevators — those are the things that are doing the turn. And you do the turn. You do the hundred the hundred eighty degree turn. When you come out you take the bank off and you ease the stick forward a fraction. Obviously because you’ve had it back take the bank off ease the stick forward and I went to pull it back and it didn’t come back. So I pushed it forward and pulled it back and it went forward and never came back. And I couldn’t get it back. I pulled it. Did everything and told the crew to get out. I unhitched myself, opened the top and I’m standing in the cockpit looking back and the bloke hasn’t moved. So I got back in the cockpit and I wound the elevator trim fully tail heavy and I was put under open arrest for this lot and they had an enquiry. And the enquiry said that we didn’t come out of it until we were four hundred feet. Now, that is very very low when you’re coming straight down. Anyway, as I wound the elevator full tail heavy and then all of a sudden the stick came back all the way and I then grabbed the elevator controls. A little crank handle on the left side. On your left side. And I started winding it forward as fast as I could and the next thing I knew I passed out of course in the, with the G and we were two thousand feet going up but if I hadn’t taken the bank, wound the elevator trim forward the kite would have gone straight over in to a loop and straight in the ground. Anyway, we got away with it. Came in and landed and the guy in the back although he dropped, they went and dropped the drogue of course. He dropped the drogue but he crashed his head when the kite pulled out and he got a big bruise but and he went sick. But he was alright. He just, he’d just got a big bruise on his head. He hadn’t broken his head. You know. Cracked his skull or anything like that. Fortunately. The next day I did the test flight. They looked and they couldn’t find anything wrong. So [pause] and they put me under open arrest and this would have been because of the previous time that they were taking a strong view. And I hated where I was. I wanted to be in England. I wanted to get onto operations so, and it didn’t look as if I’d got any chance of this happening. So I cleared off and went skiing. And I left actually, with a chap called Doug Wiltshire, I don’t know whether he’s still alive. I’ve lost contact. But he was my Bridge partner and I knew him very well. Well, I left the, I’d arranged with Doug certain times when I could ring him so that I could find out the news. Find out. And the first day I’m away and I’m ringing up. No. No problem. So, the next day I ring up he says, ‘You’d better come back home. They’ve been up.’ The aircraft I was in was the lead of two more. So, there was three of them formation flying. They were up on formation flying exercise and they did a steep turn and exactly the same thing happened. And the bloke in the, who was leading the formation went straight in the ground head first and killed him. Well when I got back I’d broken the — I mean I was under open arrest and it wasn’t just absent without leave it was a much more serious crime but they, they ignored it and they just had me up for being AWOL for two days. And I know that because I’ve got my records and it’s in there. And they gave me a reprimand. But they posted me. It’s quite normal I think when you’ve got in this particular case it was very difficult for the station commander because they hadn’t listened to me and so therefore it had cost two lives. And they don’t know how I’m going to react. What I’m going to do. And I mean I could have, I knew the guy that killed himself. I can’t remember his name. He was a New Zealander and his birthday was the 18th of November. The day before mine. Mine’s the 19th of November. And that’s — but I knew him very well and I could just as well I mean I wouldn’t have done it but they thought I could have, I may have written to his parents and told his parents. So they posted me straight away back to England. Eureka. I’m on the way to get into the, what I joined up for. I crossed the Atlantic on the Queen Elizabeth. No. Not the QE. The Queen Elizabeth 1. I think she finished her days in Hong Kong burning out. She caught fire and burned to pieces. Anyway, before I boarded the boat I bought three Crown and Anchor boards. And it was another, you know, another thing about me or character. There was some money around and I needed some of it and I was, I was more or less broke. I bought the three Crown and Anchor boards for ten dollars to start playing with which is not enough. So I got a board and I start a little game. You know, with a nice cockney accent which I can, which I had and still have basically and I did this – a little friendly game, you know , sort of business. The Americans, there must have been, there were thousands of them. I don’t know. One, two, three. I don’t know how many the boat would hold. There were not many English but there were loads and loads of Americans and they’d never seen Crown and Anchor. And it was a gambling game. They’d got to have a go at this. Well, I built the most important thing with it is that you’ve got to keep all the squares equally. With equal amounts of money on. If you get one with a great pile of money and it comes up and it comes up and it can come out two or three times I would have been broke. So, you, just a little friendly game you know. Oh no. Just. And so — but the money accumulates and it wasn’t very long before I got fifty, sixty dollars. And then of course the limit went up and up and up and then I got another board game. Another bloke — I said, ‘Do you want to earn a bit of money?’ you know. ‘Yeah.’ ‘I’ve got a board. You can set it up.’ And eventually I had the three boards going. I don’t know what happened on the crossing over on the Atlantic. I have no idea. All I did know was I wearing myself out walking around the ship picking up money. And when I got off the ship, I mean the guys that were running the things would have had as much or maybe more, I don’t know, than me but I got off the ship with just over three thousand pounds. Well now three thousand pounds in those days you could have bought a street of houses. But you know we were now in the throes of getting onto operations so the most important thing was to enjoy it. And I did but it took a little while. About a year or something but it was — but I did everything. Anyway, so we get back. We went to West Kirkby and from there I went to Shawbury and actually Prince Harry did some of his training or he was certainly stationed there for a while. I read it in the paper. I didn’t even know Shawbury was still going. And it, again it was Oxfords. And so you get back, you get in the Oxford and off you go up in the air and have a look around. Not a bit like Canada. Canada, in its way had its own kind of grandeur but it didn’t have — I mean, alright, the eastern area yes was very beautiful but when you’re flying over England it was beautiful but there wasn’t a straight road to be seen. I mean, Canada you could, it was so easy, but here you had to be a bit more, you know, it was different careful. And the same applied to the trains. They were just like little Hornby things. Anyway, everything was fine. They went up for a night flight and just familiarisation. I think it was the first time I’d been up and it was just to familiarise yourself with the local area and I flew down to the Wrekin and, you know, I had a look around. And, you know, there was no light. The whole place is, you know, blackout. Anyway, then I flew back and I ran into cloud and there was not supposed to be any cloud. It was supposed to be a clear night. And anyway, so I came down and I kept down to about I don’t know seven or eight hundred feet and I couldn’t see the ground so I went back to the Wrekin and the Wrekin hadn’t been shrouded in cloud. It was clear. And I did a very careful course and with the wind as far as I knew laid off and of course you, you have, you were given the wind speed and direction before you take off so you’ve got an idea of the wind. I laid a course on a timed run to get back to base. I ran it out and there’s nothing. So I came down again to about eight hundred feet and nothing. So I called up and there were thousands of people, hundreds. I don’t know. But the radio was jammed with people in the same situation. So I called up on [pause] I’ve forgotten it — six hundred, eight, anyway it’s the emergency frequency. I do know it but it’s slipped out of my mind.
CB: 121.5.
KT: Sorry?
CB: 121.5.
KT: No. No. It was different. Yeah. Anyway, I called up on the radio frequency on, you know, the emergency frequency. And they came back immediately, ‘Stand by,’ and I started, I flew squares. I can’t remember how many minutes. There might have been three minutes each leg and it seemed like a half an hour but I expect it was five minutes. Ten minutes at the most. And they came back and I asked for QDM to Shawbury and the QDM was 272. So I knew that I was east of the Welsh hills for sure. So I got on to 272 and I put full flap on. Tightened up the strap and dropped the speed down to just above stalling and I can’t remember what it would be. It might have been sixty. Sixty five. Something. But as slow as you could but I haven’t flown an Oxford for such a long I’m not sure. I think the stalling speed was about sixty five miles an hour and with full flap on you would get away with it at sixty. Anyway, so if you did hit anything there was a chance that you might be alright. And coming down like this and down and down and down and down and all of a sudden I see a light on the ground so I immediately put a bit more throttle on and go down towards the, then I see another one and I’m in a funnel. And a funnel is a lighted path before you get to an aerodrome and it leads you on to a runway. So, immediately I’d opened up, got the taps on so there’s no chance of stalling. I’ve got full flap on anyway. I drop the wheels and start coming in and there’s another bloody kite and he’s about — very close on the starboard side. But that’s no problem but you know he just appeared out of the fog and he flashed the same letter as me which was W. And you know didn’t ‘cause you know you were supposed to flash and get the green light that we weren’t messing about or anything like that. I wasn’t messing about or anything like that. So I flew alongside him and I came in and landed. The hut at the end of the runway fired off red flares to stop us landing because there were two kites coming in to land together. But of course I didn’t take any notice of that. Don’t forget by this time I’d got about fifteen hundred hours in and I’d been in the bombing gunnery school. That’s because I was first out. First up in the morning last, last off and I spent as many hours as I possibly could flying. Anyway, came in. I landed on the grass looking across the cockpit. The bloke did a perfectly good landing and then he obeyed the red flare, opened his taps up. A few seconds later he was dead. Or maybe a minute later. He took off. He — and the next thing before I had cleared the runway he killed himself. He’d gone into the ground. I don’t know whether he stalled or what he did. But then I can’t find my way in because I’m, I’m not on our aerodrome and I turned off left which is what I would do at home and I went in to no man’s land. And eventually I rang up and they sent a vehicle and I followed the vehicle in. And when I get there of all the people, I went into the mess and of all the people I bumped into was my Dougie Wiltshire my old bridge partner who I knew in Canada. Who I did the rigging to. Anyway, we’re there. Then we get posted to Lindholme and Lindholme is where we picked up on to Wellingtons and the Wellingtons was a different thing. But we’ve got to get a crew on. We were in an assembly room and all the different trades, you know, gunners and navigators, wireless ops, flight engineers, bomb aimers and etcetera and you just — I found a navigator. His name was Brinley and he’d got, what? He’d passed matric and stuff and I thought I couldn’t pass a bus let along matric. But he must be better than me but he should be able to navigate and we built the crew together somehow. It just happened. They just came together. We had a little tiny chap with the accent. You know — accent. You know. Clarence Derby. He was the rear gunner. Then there we had a mid-upper gunner who at the end of the training and when we were getting ready to go on operations suddenly decided it wasn’t for him and he went. In those days we’d call it LMF. He disappeared. I can’t, can’t remember his name or anything. We had brilliant navigator. Bill Johnson as a flight engineer. Noel Bosworth was bomb aimer. Who have I missed out? Oh Les Skelton, Australian. Still in touch with him. He’s the last one alive. He, he lives in Australia. Lived in Western Australia. I think that’s the whole crew. And then of course we start flying together. One of the interesting things. I pulled the flap. Now in an Oxford they had a flap lever but the propellers were locked so that they weren’t variable but they had a flap lever to try and get us used to [pause] not flaps. What am I talking about? What do they call it? Constant speed. The propeller going to coarse pitch and fine pitch. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m sorry. And when you were in you normally you take off in fine pitch. And to get it in fine pitch you pulled the lever up and the same thing. Well I got all mixed up and I landed up with the Lanc and pulled the bloody wheels up. And I knew immediately what I’d done and pushed the lever down again and they didn’t collapse. They didn’t. They stayed down. Two of them stayed down and the third one came up. It was the tail wheel. And so I got the crew out. I got underneath the tail wheel, lifted up the wheel came down and nobody knew. Luck. Anyway, fortunately I put the, realised and pulled the handle down quick. Anyway, we got, you become if you can fly, I know the kite was much bigger and there was a lot more to learn and you know from the operational point of view but one of the things I remember that stands in my mind was I’m in my mess having my dinner in the evening and I hear a bunch of kites taking off. And then I’m having my breakfast the next morning and they’re bloody well landing. And I’m thinking God they’ve been up there in the dark all night while I’ve been asleep. And I thought, God that’s terrifying. You know. But the training was extremely good and as you progressed through the course it was absolutely no problem. You know it was just, but, you know, the difference between no knowledge and a little knowledge and a lot of knowledge is a big difference. Anyway the thing worked fine. We spent hours and hours and hours on the bombing range trying to do the impossible. Getting a ten pound bomb somewhere near it. But you know if you do it enough times you get a bit better but you never become perfect. We got a lot better and I have dropped one or two real perfect bombs when I was on 617 Squadron later. But with these, S, I think they were called SABS. Semi-Automatic Bomb Site. They’d brought out another thing that had another word. It was like, I think it was an ABS. An Automatic Bomb Sight. That was later. That’ll come in in a minute. Anyway, so the net result we become pretty proficient and towards the end of the, of the course they sent us out on a diversionary thing. So, there was a bombing raid and they sent a whole bunch of us out to try and divert the enemy defence set up and then of course we all came back and landed and that was that. And then we were posted [pause] I cannot remember where. And in my book I don’t think I’ve got it. But it was on to a Halifax. It might be in the book but it’s slipped out of my mind at the moment. But we were posted on to Halifaxes and this four engines and this lasted no more than a week to two weeks at the most. And then we went to, in Lincolnshire, this and I’ve stayed there. The officer’s mess is now a hotel. And the name I know and it’s in the book. And I can give it to, I’ll have a look and I can find, look it up. I will think about because as it happens I managed to get the room I had while I was there.
CB: That’s Woodhall Spa.
KT: No. Woodhall Spa. I did that as well. In Woodhall Spa I got my old room when I went to a 617 reunion. But no, this was, anyway at the time the squadrons had been there or they eventually were there but it was a Conversion Unit onto a Lancaster. And then I’m posted on to Elsham Wolds. 576 Squadron Elsham Wolds and at the same time I’ve gone from sergeant, because I was a sergeant pilot. You became a flight sergeant automatically after six months. But eighteen months later I was still a sergeant because I’d had one or two — well because of the problems I had at Mont-Joli. Anyway, I went from sergeant, flight sergeant to pilot officer in five minutes. You know, when I say five minutes — in a matter of about three or four months. And I was given a bit of leave. I’m not sure if the whole crew was given some leave but I went down to London to All Kits I think it was called. Was it Cambridge Circus? All Kits. Got myself the gear and its surprising. The money was so cheap in those days. I think the allowance and I’m not sure, was forty pounds. And out of that you got a great coat, a uniform, and a couple of shirts I suppose. I can’t remember. Oh, the a hat. Your forage cap would be ok. Anyway, there we were. So I’m now Pilot Officer Trent with my kit bag and I’m off to Woodhall Spa. Not Woodhall Spa.
CB: Elsham Wolds.
KT: Elsham Wolds. Incidentally I’ve hunted at Elsham Wolds. You know. With horses of course. Anyway, that’s a by the way. So I get as close as I can on the bus. Barnetby le Wold. And they dropped me off and I’ve got about three miles walk but it shows how green I was. All I should have done was to have gone into a hotel, got a pint of beer and rung up and said I’m at such and such a hotel and they’d have picked me up. But I walked with my kit bag on my shoulder and I’m walking along a pace at a time. And I get the frights. As I’m walking along and I’m thinking I wonder if I’m going to walk back. I just wonder. And I get on and on and walk on and on and I walk and walk. And eventually I get there and kind of shelve it but you know it’s a thought that’s gone in your mind. I go into the mess. No. Not the mess. Sorry. I went and reported in and a batman showed me my room. I got myself sorted out and then I went into the mess and there was a little bugger, for a better word, with a pint of beer. He’d got wings and he’d got a DFM. And he was my sort of bloke. And the first thing he said, you know, he spoke to me straight away — his name was John Stevens. And John Stevens he’s died years ago. One of his sons, it’s got me a little bit funny because I’m so involved with family. One of his sons is my godson. His daughter lives in Jersey. She lived with us and was married from our house years ago now. Forty years ago actually yesterday. Forty years ago Sunday. But there we are that’s one of those things. They hit you on the soft spots. Anyway, so old John he’d done a tour of operations. And he starts talking to me about, you know, it’s all going on but not at that moment but the information gradually came over. One of the things was where he was such a good friend was he had a car and I didn’t have. So I had to make sure he was a good friend but he was and he said, you know, talking about operating. He said, ‘Be aggressive.’ Now then. This is not everybody’s thought at all but, ‘Be aggressive. If you’ve got any idea you can see one get the boys to fire at it. Be absolutely aggressive. Don’t, whatever you do, go through a target before somebody else is coned. Let, let you know if you’re early, whatever you do do anything but don’t be early what ever,’ And this is something and this is something you’ve trained your own navigators. But there was several things like this you know. That was for getting coned. Avoiding predicted flak. He said that his system that you don’t, you can’t do anything about first bunch. The first lot of flak. That comes and it’s too close for comfort. But you know it’s predicted automatic because there’s nothing going and all of a sudden bang bang bang bang bang all around you. So if you alter your direction, drop your height a bit, say you altered to the right or to starboard and drop down a hundred feet. And then you tell the crew look up there and in twenty seconds you’ll see a load of shells go off and you’ll see and it is. And I got caught, very badly caught in that predicted flak much later on, and when I was on 625 Squadron and taking a new crew. And the thing is keep your head. Keep counting and keep altering your direction and your height up and down. And it’s, there is a lot of luck because there’s more than one gun. There’s a gun battery but if you get another battery starts up then the timing suddenly alters and it all goes a bit wrong. But nevertheless it was all good advice. And we became firm friends and then the squadron was moved to Elsham Wolds. And I got on very well with the Elsham Wold, all the guys at Elsham and including the station commander. Group Captain Duncan did about eight flights with me as flight engineer. And you know so I was I was a bit of a party boy. Not a party boy. What do you call it? I was, it was a nice happy relationship with everyone. And I had, you know, operations. I remember the first operation. It was, this was one you remember the details and it was in Holland. I think the place is called [unclear]. I’ve actually got it. Can you? I think it’s in here somewhere. No it’s not. No. That’s the other thing. Anyway, I remember coming home. It was absolutely a piece of cake. There was no problem. It was daylight. With tonnes of fighters kicking around because it wasn’t, and the only problem coming back between Brussels [pause] I’ve looked all this up. And anyway in the Brussels area we got into a load of flak but otherwise it was nothing. It was an absolutely piece of cake. Well then the operations started and strangely I’ve got I can go through all my operations. Do you want me to do that?
CB: Later.
KT: Well it would take a hell of a long time.
CB: Later. Later.
KT: Yeah. Ok. To just tell you some of the important operations or the ones that stand out in my mind. We were going to Cologne. No. Further in. Where the hell was it? It was, and this is documented everywhere. In the tele, on the computer and everywhere. This particular raid. And it wasn’t Munich. I don’t. No. It wasn’t Munich. It was quite a, a fairly deep penetration and we took off and the, there was a massive cumulonimbus set up and we had to climb up to get over the top of it. And my rear gunner Clarrie had a problem. And he asked if he asked if he could get out of his turret. And he forgot to lock the turret. And the turret turned and trapped his legs. And brother. It says in the official report he requested assistance. In fact he was screaming. God. It’s a bit nerving when somebody’s screaming like made down the — but he, I sent the bomb aimer back, who was his friend, to help him. And when he got there the screaming had stopped. I’d said to him, you know, ‘If you don’t stop screaming we’re not going to do anything about it.’ And I think it would have crushed his legs. I don’t know. But by the time Noel got back there his oxygen had become disconnected and he’d passed out. So, he wasn’t, he wasn’t making any noise but I stopped the starboard outer engine. With the starboard engine drives the rear turret so that to stop the pressure and then he goes back there. He gets Clarrie sorted out and he gets him on the bench. There’s a rest bed just forward of the main spar on the left hand side of the port side of the kite. Anyway, he gets him on there and then I’m faced with do I — which way do I go? Do I go back home? I’m losing height and I’m going into the top of this cumulonimbus lot. And I think just start the engine. When I started the engine it looked as if it was on fire. And I left it until it was on fire and then I stopped it and it went out. So, I started it again. Left it for ten minutes and started it again and it still caught fire. So I stopped it and operated the graviner and the fire went out but I can’t use the engine any more. So I have got no rear turret but I went on to the target. Dropped the bombs. And I couldn’t get over the top of the cu nim coming back because it was a massive big front. So I went underneath and I came down low and I went underneath. And because I was only a few feet above the sea. You know, maybe a hundred feet. Something like that when after we crossed the coast and as luck would have it we never had fighter interest although we were on our own. And so that was lucky. Anyway, coming across and what do we see? A life raft with seven blokes in it. A kite has come down and we managed, we stayed there until we were just about running out of petrol but we managed to get so many things to go towards them to pick them up. There was a [pause] what do you call it, a coaster. I think he was hauling coal backwards and forward. I think it was a collier. I’m not sure but it was certainly a vessel. There was, a destroyer was involved and they motored, you know, small boats they put over the side. But the net result was I flew back and sent their exact position. And we gave their position but we could take you could plot back and give them the exact position. Anyway, they saved the crew. They were all, they picked them up. And then of course I came back and I was well late. Came in and landed and that got the first DFC. You know we did quite a few. The — oh yeah I must tell you this. Whilst in 617 Squadron and I don’t know how many operations I did there. I can’t remember. But because it was anyway I flew three different Lancasters. Now, when I say I me and my crew flew three different Lancasters that all did over a hundred operations and it is the, it’s only a statistic but we were the only bomber crew throughout the whole of the war that did that. You now, this is a heavy bomber crew. And that is, just as I say, a statistic. Anyway, we got moved down to Kelstern. Kelstern is the coldest bloody place in Lincolnshire and it’s the furthest place from a pub and thank God for Steve because we were able to do our stuff. You know. Another interesting thing the first possible night in the week when we were stood down we, Steve and I used to go front row of the stalls in the theatre and eye up the chorus. And you could, you could, there was a bar and the bar was on the right hand side of the stage. So, you went up a few steps onto — and there was this blooming bar and we’d get the direct birds into there and so we got a girlfriend for the week, you know and actually some of them, one or two of them, one of them from my point of view who I got to know quite well. And she said you get “The Stage” and you can find out where I am every week. Which was quite nice. When it was close. Not too far away. But unfortunately I hadn’t got the services of Steve then because [laughs] But anyway, so it went on. But now, what happened then? Then I had finished my tour and none of my crew wanted to stay on. Oh I forgot to tell you. Most important. When we went on to [pause] converted on to Halifaxes I needed a mid-upper gunner and he was a flying officer. Flying Officer Riccomini. And Riccomini spent the rest of his working life in the air force and retired as a squadron leader and I have been up to see him several years but I’ve not seen him, I haven’t been in touch lately unfortunately. I haven’t. He must have moved. But he had a nice house and he lived and he had quite a nice life. So, now, Riccomini was on his second tour so he only had to do twenty operations and he disappeared. Well, when he disappeared I picked up a little bloke. He was Flight Sergeant Arthur and he had done a tour and he was a, he wanted to keep going. So I picked him up as a rear gunner and he became known as Gremlin. And a gremlin was always in the rear turret. And he was, he was an aggressive little sod. He was just the sort of bloke I wanted in the rear turret. Anyway, the tour is finished so I’ve got Gremlin and nobody else. Well, on one occasion I took all the leaders. You know the bombing leader, nav leader, engineer leader and the gunnery leader and, and there was absolute hullabaloo because if we’d been shot down. And so that never happened again. But I wound up taking new crews. Now, a second dickey normally comprises an experienced crew and just the pilot goes with the experienced crew. And he does, this was how my second dickey was. But this time we took the inexperienced crew and the pilot, the inexperienced pilot came with me and would act, along with the engineer, as a kind of second engineer between them. And Gremlin in the tail. But [pause] and we do you know thirty one, thirty two, thirty three thirty four and they’re going up doing these sort of things. And then I got a dead lot. A real, and I, this was to Munich and he lost him. The navigator had lost the plot completely and we were well in over Germany. And we had, I mean I didn’t know at that. I mean one of the things you can get some, you could start to make a bit of a pattern in your mind of searchlight patterns. Where you can see towns. You couldn’t. You know. But Munich is a long way in. Anyway, I dumped the bombs, turned around and I flew. I cannot think of the course but an estimated course of my own. My own [unclear] was going to get me over the North Sea and then I’d go over England and we’d spot — we’d get a pinpoint off the ground. And anyway of course, so what happens we got into really prolonged predictive flak and it went on because I must have been on an unfortunate sort of a heading because I was going from one load of guns onto another lot and it happened. I don’t know how long we were coned, we were predicted but it went on and on and on. To keep counting on following Steve’s advice proved to be quite something but we got through the end of it and at the end of it you’d be surprised how bloody hot you are. I was sweating like a pig. And I don’t know why but maybe it was fright. It’s a thing. I don’t know. But anyway we got back to England. When we crossed the coast the bloke had got the Gee box on and he’d got the, and he told me the course to steer so I never had to go and look for the airfield. He told me the course. We came in and landed and they were sent back for training. And a very strange thing. It’s about fifteen twenty years ago. We knew a hotelier here and he said we’ve got a bloke here that used to be a pilot in the, a navigator, a Lancaster pilot in the war. ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘I’ll come and have a chat with him then.’ So I went around there and it was him. Of all the people. He said, ‘Ken Trent. He said `You chucked me out. You sent us back.’ So, I said, ‘Yeah and you’re still alive.’ You know. But anyway, so where have we got to? Now this went on and I’d applied to transfer to 617. Eventually. It wasn’t too long. Oh something before this. We came back and it was thick fog. This is actually — the funny in my voice is nothing to do with the the fog. We were, we were diverted back. I think it was Ludford Magna. And when you got there you could see it because FIDO is hundreds of thousands of gallons of petrol being set alight through little pipes. There was some pipes with little holes in and it’s going out and it takes about a quarter of an hour I think to get the lift the fog sufficiently enough to bring the kites in. But you could see the brightness from quite a long way away. Anyway, so I went to Ludford Magna. The first thing they say is how much fuel have you got? Well if you’ve got three hundred gallons you would say two hundred because you, because you knew what was going to happen. They were going to get you to [pause] and all you wanted to do was get on to the ground. Anyway, so they’d send you on a cross country and then when you came back they would, at the time they would put you in the stack. And you would be on the top of the stack. And I can’t remember whether it was a hundred feet you came down but they would bring, give permission for somebody to land and they would go through the stack an bring everybody down to the next height lower. I don’t know whether it was a hundred feet, two hundred feet. I don’t think it could possibly five hundred feet. That would be too much. Anyway, they bring you all down until it was your turn to land and when I landed and went in there was a message. My mum was seriously ill in hospital and it’s is going to upset me a bit. Anyway, I took off as I was with my helmet in a bag and I just went. You know, flying gear, the whole bloody lot. And they had a railway warrant. I went down. I went to see the hospital and she seemed as bright and cheery as if there was nothing wrong with her. But she’d had, in those days they weren’t anywhere near as advanced with cancer and they’d had a look inside and discovered — and just sewed her up again. There was another lady there she’d palled up with there and she said, ‘She’s dying. She might last three months. The doctors say might last three months.’ And so if, you know, a little later I went back to camp and of course any opportunity I was home. And I got some leave to go home and what’s she doing? She’s cleaning the place. The shop, the house, from top to bottom while she still had the strength. Before she died. I was there when she died. Twenty one minutes past ten on the 29th of April 1944 and — 1945 sorry. The end of the war. Anyway, so of course I’m I get back to camp eventually and the transfer or the posting comes to 617. And when I got to 617 Squadron all of a sudden I thought that I might survive the war. This was January 1945 and we’d lived a pretty heavy life from the drinking and etcetera and, you know, because I suppose we were just having as good a time as we could possibly have whilst we were here. But it was accepted in a way and you didn’t, you weren’t lying in bed thinking, ‘Oh. Am I going to die?’ Nothing like that. Maybe you’d had so much to drink you’d been to sleep anyway. But I, the, it was the atmosphere at 617 was it was a special place and they were all special people. But I’m not that special. I felt that I wasn’t that special. And although it was a fantastic squadron and they did some fantastic things. Things that, you’ve got to admire everything about them but I went out for a walk, came out of the Petwood, turned right and a little way on the right hand side is a farm. And there was a long straight line right up to the little cottage where the farmer lived. And I went down there looking for eggs and he was milking. And he was, he’d got — his kids and his wife were milking. And he was carrying, with a yolk, I don’t know how many but maybe five gallon, six gallon buckets. I don’t know. Four gallon. They were big buckets of water from a pond and he was carrying them in to where the cows were to water the cows. So I said, ‘Oh I’d like to have a go at that.’ And I became very friendly with the family and all the drinking went out of the window. I wasn’t drinking. And he couldn’t read or write but he was a lovely, lovely man and his wife. And while they were there they were up to all the things the farmers were doing. I haven’t, you know this to me was more interesting than the than the operations. They killed a pig. Illegally of course and they knew exactly what to do. And I could go through the whole performance but its — and the whole thing goes. When I go home, I’ve got a car by now, when I go home I’ve got a sack of spuds you know. A chicken. A dozen eggs. And a lump, a lump of bacon because it wasn’t for pork. It was for bacon in the boot. Which today of course if you were stopped by the police you would wonder what the heck but it never occurred to me that that might happen. Anyway, they’d let you off because you’ve got wings and the DFC on you. Anyway, so 617 Squadron. I didn’t spend as much time in the mess and I never made a close buddy because I was involved more with the farm and I also wasn’t drinking much. I’d have an odd beer but I certainly I wasn’t getting pissed or anything like that at all. Well. Some of the operations. The first one I did was to Bielefeld Viaduct. I can remember that as a first. I can remember the last which was to Berchtesgaden. I’ll talk, there’s a bit more about Berchtesgaden in a minute. I think there’s one or two. I’m not sure which it is. One was a viaduct and the other was a bridge and it was the bridge and I can’t remember which one it is. Arnsburg comes in my mind. But I do know it and it’s in my book. But because we know. And I had a Tallboy which was a twelve thousand pounder and — Left. Left. Right. But I must tell you. I was talking about a bomb sight a lot earlier on. Now the bomb site now was an automatic bomb site. Not semi automatic. And the, the thing that happens is this. About ten minutes, a quarter of an hour before we get to the target you take a three drift wind and it’s quite a simple thing to do. You can either do it — the gunners can do it for you or you’ve got to get the land going down straight and it gives you the direction of the wind. And you can calculate the direction and strength of wind. Or you can do it with a hand bearing compass. Anyway, the navigator does that and that’s passed to the bomb aimer who enters it into the bomb sight. Now the bomb sight is a big box of tricks to the left of the actual thing of the sight. So he feeds that in. The air speed is automatically fed in. And the height is automatically fed in. Then there are corrections for air speed and corrections for height which the navigator works out and passes and they go in. And all this time you’re flying straight and level and you have, apart from you’ve taken your sixty degrees either side to get your wind and then you’ve got near enough a ten minute straight and level flight. You’ve got the, it’s all daylight because you’re doing, you’re dropping a bomb on a particular object. And the bombsite consists of a piece of glass about an inch and a half wide and I would think say five, six inches long. Now I’m only talking from memory but this is to give you the idea. Now, as you came, as you were approaching the target and the target would start to come on to the glass and then there’s a big cross with — it’s shorter on the [pause] and it’s longer on the direction into the cross. And the bomb aimer gets it on to the end of the leg of the cross. ‘Left. Left. Right. Steady, steady. Ok. Ok.’ And then he says, ‘Bomb site on.’ And when the, that means he’s switched on the bomb site and it should, the perfect thing is that the cross is there on the target and it stays there and as you travel forward the glass gradually depresses to keep, and it should stay there. And the bomb site releases the bomb. Not the bomb aimer. And this was a really accurate but for all that the idea of the bomb was to get as close to the target as you could and you made sure. The bombs were so big. I mean there was the Grand Slam or special store that was ten tonnes. Which was a massive, it was quite a bit bigger but for all that the twelve thousand pounder would make a big enough hole for most things nearby to fall into the hole. Or [unclear] into the hole. Well this particular one and I never saw this. Only from the pictures afterwards. ‘Left. Left. Right. Steady. Bomb sight on. Bomb gone.’ And then the bomb aimer, ‘We’ve hit the bloody thing.’ And he’d hit right in the centre sideways of the bridge and just maybe a twenty foot overshoot. I mean incredible fortunate bomb. And there were three pictures and these were posted up in the very special little officer’s mess in Petwood Hotel. And the first one was a hole in. The second one was water splashing up and the third one was the whole bloody lot up in the air. That was, you know, that was something. On another occasion and now this has been recorded officially as a twelve thousand pounder bomb but it wasn’t. I carried. I wasn’t the first one by any means but I kept the first ten tonner, the first Grand Slam. The first specialist bomb that I carried. I can’t remember where we were going. But on the way out when we started to climb our, my oxygen was out of step. Wasn’t working and the squadron commander at the time was Jonny Farquhar. I shouldn’t say this but he wasn’t the most popular. Leave it at that. And he [pause] when I shouldn’t have told him but he said, he was getting on at me because I wasn’t getting up to height and I told him that we were having problems with the oxygen. And he said, ‘Go back.’ And we discussed it amongst the crew. Shall we pretend we can’t hear him or shall we go on? But we went back. So I’ve got, I’ve got, although as I just said it says in the, in the records that it was a Tallboy but it wasn’t. It was the very first one that I took up. And I blooming well knew that. Anyway, we’d then got to land and I landed ok but I came in and I thought you know I’d better just give it a little bit more speed and I was aiming to touch down right at the very beginning of the runway. And I might have touched down a third of the way down. The bloody kite floated down and seemed to float forever. Anyway, I was frightened to overshoot in case it wouldn’t overshoot with a full flap wheels and the bomb. So it stuck on the ground and we were going fast because, I mean there’s a hell of a lot of weight. And if you put the brakes on like that then you’ll burn them out in no time so you snatch the brakes and it keeps snatching the brakes until you get right to the end and that gave it a little inclination to turn to port. To turn left and of course the bloody thing was going to whizz around and it was going to wipe the undercarriage as far as I can and everything off. And I put absolutely full bore, full power on the port outer right through the gate as I turned off and as it came around. I mean how the undercarriage stood it I don’t know. But all of a sudden I shut it. I’m doing four miles an hour on the taxi trip. And that was, that to me I reckon was one of the danger spots. Now, the war. We did the Berchtesgaden. Get all the way there. The bombing leader was my bomb aimer and we got hung up. And so we carried the Tallboy all the way back home. But we used to land with Tallboys all the time. This is why I can tell you that it was a thirty five. You know, it was a Grand Slam. And I can tell you because I mean Tallboy we were bringing them back. If you had a Tallboy and somebody hit the target you would bring them back home because they were so scarce and there were so few of them. And I mean landing with a Tallboy was absolutely no problem at all because nowhere near the weight. Anyway, the war’s over. We left the Petwood. We went to Waddington. Lovely mushrooms all over the airfield. We used to pick them in the morning and take them in. Then we are sent to Italy to pick up some army types. And the first time we went was to Parmigliano. There was a great, a great party when we got there and we discovered that you could buy — oh what was it? Not cherry brandy. A fancy, a fancy liqueur that we had’t seen. Never. None of us had ever tasted. It wasn’t Cherry Heering. It was something like. What now you buy. It’s a yellow creamy lot. Anyway, I can’t remember what it’s called at the moment. Tia Maria. And it came out. I can’t remember. But say it was a pound. It was cheap. A pound a bottle or something like that. So of course we all bought a load of this stuff. Put it in the kite to sell to the pubs when we get home in Lincoln. Anyway, so we eventually next morning we’re not really feeling very well. We’re gathering all the guys up and they — I think, I can’t remember how many. The place is stuffed with brown types and soldiers and we take off and come home no problem. But we’re a little bit worried about the contraband and so we told the authorities. We called up and told them we had some problem with the engine and so they — I can’t remember where it was but I can’t remember the name. It was another place where they’d got an elongated runway. Very wide and there were two of them. Was Ludford Magna one? And was one Woodford or somewhere?
CB: Woodbridge.
KT: Where?
CB: Woodbridge.
KT: Woodbridge. Yeah.
CB: Suffolk.
KT: Yeah. That’s right. Woodbridge. Well we landed at Woodbridge. And I couldn’t remember where it was. And so we got a corporal comes out. ‘No. No. Nothing to declare.’ So that was that. So the kite’s at Woodbridge. Somebody took a look at the engine. That was alright. We stayed the night so the next day we flew back to base and we didn’t have to go through customs. So we got the stuff home. I’m near the end but I just, there are just one or two more things to tell you. One of them was we did another trip. This time we went to Bari which is the other side. And when we took off for the guys coming back home we were given a weather forecast that there was cloud. And you break through the cloud about four to five thousand feet and the cloud base was about a thousand feet or something. So we took off and climbed and climbed and climbed and climbed and I got up to ten thousand feet and we weren’t out of the cloud. And I thought well I can’t go any higher because I’ve got all these guys in the back. So, and then we started to get violent turbulence. So I said to the nav, we want to get, ‘Let me know when we’ve crossed.’ When I say violent turbulence you can’t believe it. You suddenly find your climbing at about five thousand feet, ten thousand feet a minute. Something. I can’t remember. So you stick the engine, you stick the kite down and you start losing height like mad. And then all of a sudden you get a bloody great bang and you’re descending at the same sort of speed and I said to the nav, ‘Let me know as soon as we’re clear of Italy and I aint going to get underneath it.’ And I may or not have told him we were going underneath but I had the experience of this. We were clear and I came down and down and all of a sudden I came out of the bottom and about a hundred, two hundred yards from the starboard side was a bloody great whirl of water being sucked up out of the sea into it. But we were underneath. You could see several of these all around and it was so easy from there on to fly. And we would fly back to the Spanish coast as we did the first time and then due north to England. Well, when we got back a bloke — they’d lost I think one kite. They lost a bloke. A mid-upper turret had come out of a kite along with the guy sitting in it. And another kite landed with a broken back. And they got it back and landed it. And that was the end of those. Now, the one thing I must tell you. Before I took off for this particular trip I took off and was, we was on course and the nav comes up. He says, ‘The Gee box isn’t working.’ So I said, ‘Well, it doesn’t matter does it?’ You know. He said, ‘There’s a Kings Regulations just come out. You’ve got to replace it.’ You know, ‘The regulations says you’re not to fly with it.’ If you get that you’ve got to replace it. It’s an after the war job. So I came in and as I was approaching I could feel the kite did that. Do you notice? Nothing. You know. Landed. Taxied in. No problem. Shut down. They’d changed it so taxied out. Took off. As I’m going down the runway and I’ve got to something like eighty miles an hour. Eighty five. So, and you need at least ninety five to take off. All of a sudden the runway went flying that way and I’m flying across it. You know. Careering across the grass. I put on full rudder. Bloody difficult because you’ve got this engine feathered, got the things. Put in boards straight through the gate. Took a little out of the port outer to ease it on the rudder and I’ve got my hand here on the rim, trying to, on the rudder trim. Trying to turn the trim. And the wing, we left the airfield and we’re over a field and the starboard wing touched the ground. So the net result the next thing and I’m not strapped in. The war’s over and all that and I haven’t strapped myself in and it touched the ground. I knocked the box off which disconnects, you know turns off all eight ignition switches. And there’s a handle. Have you been in a Lanc? Well you know where the handle is. You pull yourself up to get into your seat when you fly. As the pilot. Well that handle. I put, I put my hand on that and I put my head on my hand because I could see myself being smashed in to the [pause] and then all of a sudden when the bang came the thing did a cartwheel. It took the nose off. And we and there’s mud flying everywhere. My head goes through and the artificial horizon went like that. Never touch it. Next moment I’m in the top of the canopy. And the crew had got all the escape hatches off so they must have been working bloody quick. They were very quick. And I’d always said to my crew you know if ever I say, ‘Emergency. Emergency. Jump. Jump. If you don’t get out I won’t be there. I’ll be the first off. Out of this kite.’ I jumped up out of my seat, put my head in someone’s bum. Some bugger’s got in front of me. And I got up and got, got through. Sat on top. The engines are cracking as they’re cooling down. A hundred yards behind there’s the rear gunner running towards us. And the other guys are running away in case it explodes. And it looked to me to be a long way down to the ground but as you know of course it isn’t that far. But I slid down. The gunner had turned his turret to try and help with the directions. You know, to put some rudder on. And when the tail came down he burst through the doors and was dumped in a ploughed field. Sliding along in the mud. And he’s covered from head to foot in mud. Not a scratch. You know, it was one of those things. Anyway, that was I flew a few times after that but not much more. But I must do the last bit and the last bit I was posted. I thought about staying in the air force. I mean we all wanted to stay in but obviously there wasn’t a future there. You could stay you could sign on for three years and I reckoned at the end of three years it was going to be a bloody sight harder to make a living. But at the moment there were going to be millions of people coming out of the services and there was going to be a bit of money around. I’d better get hold of some of that. That’s how, and I wanted out. So they, as soon as they knew I was posted to a station. I cannot remember where it is but I bet I could find it. And I think I found it and it’s in here. But when — they don’t know what to do with you. And A) I don’t know who he was but somebody, a squadron leader bloke. I was an acting flight lieutenant then and he comes in and he takes me into an office and it’s absolutely full of paper all over the place. And it was the signals office. He said, ‘I wonder. We want you. Your job is to file all this lot. Sort this lot out. Get it in to order and file it.’ Ok. So off he goes and I sit down. It was cold. I looked at it and I thought well this is just bloody stupid. It’s a completely impossible thing to do. I mean, what can you do with it. Where are you going to put it? And it was cold so I put the first bit in the file and burned it. And two weeks later I burned the lot. All Gone. The office was tidy. Clean. Looked lovely. And I’m thinking boy this is going to be some bloody background to this. Something’s going to happen. I wonder. It’s going to be interesting. So the bloke comes in. ‘Oh I see you’ve sorted it. Good show old boy.’ End of story. I mean I just burned the bloody signals. All of them. Anyway, that is me for now.
CB: That’s really good. Thanks very much Ken.
KT: That’s good.
CB: Let’s just recap if we may.
KT: Yeah.
CB: You’ve got one DFC. What was the timing and –
KT: Ok.
CB: Occasion of the second DFC.
KT: Well, now I thought the bar to the DFC came because possibly my record in 617. And that has been my whole thought over all my life until I started to write the book. And then I got in touch with the Air Ministry and records and all this, that and the other and I discovered it was recommended by 65 Squadron. And it was nothing to do with 617. And I’m just going to add something else. I mean we’re all very old men now. And Aces High, who I think some of you may have heard of and know about they had a signing session at [pause] where’s it?
CB: Wendover.
KT: Wendover.
CB: Yeah.
KT: And there was a bloke there who was a pilot in 625 er 617 and he did thirty operations including the Tirpitz. But he didn’t do the Dams raid.
CB: That was Iverson.
KT: Who?
CB: Tony Iverson.
KT: And he doesn’t have a gong.
CB: That’s right.
KT: This is a bloke without a gong. All he got. He hadn’t got a DFC or anything.
CB: No.
KT: And this, that is true is it?
CB: Yeah –
KT: Well now I felt like writing in because it was this was Farquhar. Jonny Farquhar. He was not. All he wanted was stuff for himself or his favourites. But that man. Tony.
CB: Iverson.
KT: Iverson.
CB: He died last year.
KT: Yeah. Now I met him two or three years ago at Aces High.
CB: Yeah.
KT: I didn’t know he’s dead. I’m sorry to hear that. He was on the squadron when I was on the squadron.
CB: He was originally a fighter man.
KT: Yeah. But I thought that that was awful because he had done, in my — as I look at it, more than I did and he I thought that was absolutely terrible because he deserved it. He deserved it more than I did and I got two. Anyway, there we are.
CB: Fantastic. Thank you very much. We’re going to take a break now ‘cause you deserve a cup of tea.
KT: Oh yeah. I’d love a cup of tea. How long have we been doing that?
CB: I can’t see now.
KT: Oh I’ll put the light on. I’ll go and see if I can find some- i’ve got to be careful when I first get up.
CB: Don’t worry.
KT: I’m alright now.
CB: Ok.
KT: I’ll give you some light.
CB: We’re now going to have a break and we’ve done two hours and twelve minutes.
[recording paused]
CB: We’ve stopped the interview because ken has been going for two hours and it’s got to the end of the war although some things we haven’t completed. What we aim to do is reconvene another time and pick up on a number of points that are really important in this.
[recording paused]
CB: This interview is about two hours twenty minutes continuous. The plan is to continue the conversation at a later stage. Probably at Wendover, in the spring, when Ken’s book is due to be launched.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Kenneth Trent
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-01-12
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ATrentKL160112
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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02:13:11 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Shropshire
England--Cheshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Lincolnshire
Canada
Québec
Queensland
Saskatchewan
Québec--Mont-Joli
Alberta--Innisfail
Saskatchewan--Swift Current
Germany
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Bielefeld
Italy
Temporal Coverage
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1945
Description
An account of the resource
Ken grew up in London and joined the Royal Air Force on his eighteenth birthday as a pilot. After exams and interview at RAF Uxbridge, he went to Number 9 Receiving Wing in Torquay and an Initial Training Wing in Stratford-upon-Avon. He then trained in Canada at an Elementary Flying Training School in Swift Current. This was followed by Innisfail and North Battleford where Ken flew Oxfords. After becoming a pilot, he went to a bombing and gunnery school at Mont-Joli and flew Battles before returning to the United Kingdom.
Ken went to RAF Shawbury, flying Oxfords. He was posted to RAF Lindholme on Wellingtons where he crewed up. He was posted for a very short time on Halifaxes, followed by a Conversion Unit onto Lancasters. He then went to RAF Elsham Wolds and 576 Squadron. From flight sergeant, he quickly became pilot officer.
Ken shares some good advice he received from a fellow pilot and describes some of his operations. Ken was awarded two Distinguished Flying Crosses. His first operation was to the Bielefeld viaduct and the last was to Berchtesgaden.
Ken flew three different Lancasters for 617 Squadron and they were the only heavy bomber crew to carry out over 100 operations. During his time at RAF Woodhall Spa, he fostered a good relationship with a local farmer.
When the war ended, he went to RAF Waddington and flew back army personnel from Italy.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sally Coulter
576 Squadron
617 Squadron
625 Squadron
Absent Without Leave
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
Battle
bombing
crash
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
faith
FIDO
Grand Slam
Halifax
Lancaster
military discipline
Operation Dodge (1945)
Oxford
pilot
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Kelstern
RAF Lindholme
RAF Woodbridge
RAF Woodhall Spa
recruitment
sanitation
take-off crash
Tallboy
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/601/8870/PLoosemoreLJ1501.2.jpg
711df538feec47125a25b5846c6510a0
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/601/8870/ALoosemoreLJ151116.1.mp3
8ef370350df4759aa45dc6ad864c2ddc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Loosemore, Lesley Joseph
L J Loosemore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Loosemore, LJ
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Les Loosemore (3033406, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a mid upper gunner with 61 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: My name is Adam Sutch and –
LL: Ah [emphasis], that’s a good idea.
AS: This is an interview with Mr. Les Loosemore, formally mid upper gunner in 61 Squadron, Bomber Command during the Second World War. My name is Adam Sutch, interviewer for the Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive, and the interview is being carried out at xxx Broughton Gifford on the 16th of November 2016. Les, thanks ever [emphasis] so much for agreeing for this interview.
LL: That’s alright.
AS: I’d like to set the scene by asking you to describe your life before joining the Air Force. Where you come from, your brothers and sisters, that sort of thing.
LL: Erm, well [emphasis]. I was born in Swansea, South Wales. Now, I can remember the address some. Left school, first job, first job I had was on a – well a scrap merchant, not [unclear]. This is all ship work [emphasis]. When the ships come in they’re bringing in shells and bombs and stuff, but they’d got to be packed in such a way that every one is above the other, and jammed on the side to stop them from swaying. And it was our job then to [unclear] all those ships and collect all that timber, then we used to store it in the dry [?] so the next ship that comes in, and takes its stuff over to [unclear] or over to Europe [?], you had all the stuff ready and you just put them all back [emphasis] in the same place. But you had to make sure that they stayed upright, so everything was right, a row of bombs, planks, but they had to touch the sides of the ships to stop them from going otherwise they’re all sinked [?] on the bottom. But by doing that, putting a layer of timber in between you kept them in the middle of the ship, yeah [coughs].
AS: How old were you when you started that job?
LL: [Coughs] that was the first job I had I think, yeah. I was only about fourteen, yeah, and – oh and I ended up in the, with the – oh hell, Old Barn Easton [?] was the old scrap yard. I got into somewhere, but I can’t remember where, but [coughs].
AS: Not to worry. But you left –
LL: Erm – I must have been fourteen when I left [inhales loudly]. I got a job [emphasis], sausage skin factory they called it. And you get all [emphasis] the sheep’s guts and get all the – it’s all frozen and it’s all dry and you got to rip all the fat off so you left with a skin which is used for sausages.
AS: Good lord.
LL: Yeah –
AS: That’s your first job.
LL: That’s the, the proper first job I ever had.
AS: Yeah. Were you living at home at that, at that time?
LL: Erm, I was, I was living at [emphasis] home then, yeah. And, where was that? Oh, that was at a place in Swansea, and, well, Treboeth they called it. It’s just on the edge [emphasis] of Swansea. And there was only about ten or fifteen minutes walk, so that want too bad there, yeah. That was an aunt, because I walked out of home, because too many arguments and all this and that. Conditions were better when I went and lived with an aunt.
AS: Oh okay.
LL: So, I haven’t had any, like a brother [?]. I did have that as my official address for many years, even when I was in the RAF, so you can say that was my second home really, yeah.
AS: Mm. Did you have, do you have many brothers and sisters?
LL: I got some, but they are too far away. I’ve only got some brothers. Oh [emphasis] sorry [coughs], I got a sister, she born 1936, that was about a, wrong again [?]. It must have been thirty-seven, mother died in 1937, how do I remember that? I used to play with two tins of World War One medals.
AS: Mm?
LL: Now, I usually, two tins laid right across the table. I never realised it until somebody mentioned it. ‘Why did you have two tins?’ One was is [?] some relative. I don’t think he had any brothers, he had sisters according to my sister. I lost my train of thought –
AS: The World War One medals.
LL: Yeah. I used to put all these medals across and – there were two tins. We discovered he had two tins. Why he had two I was asked by a certain person, and I said ‘I’ll find out.’ And it appears that he’d, he had a relative of some description, he didn’t have any brothers, but he [pause]. Yeah, he said that, well he asked if I had a brother who won a Victoria Cross, and ‘well sir I don’t know,’ and I said ‘next time I go down Swansea’ I said ‘I’ll ask about it.’ And apparently he had a relative as well that was staying with them. One tin was the old man’s and the other was the sister [?]. But he didn’t come back because I think he got wounded during the First World War and he passed away.
AS: Mm.
LL: So he left the old man with the two tins. In there was the square Victoria Cross.
AS: My gosh.
LL: I used to play with that all on the table, two tins of them.
AS: Good lord.
LL: ‘Cause when I asked the old man I said ‘what’s all this then,’ he said ‘well they were all different parts of World War One.’ He didn’t say what they actually were, but it was only later on that I discovered through somebody else that it was a Victoria Cross.
AS: Goodness.
LL: And that was a bloke Loosemore in the First World War.
AS: Good lord. When you were in Swansea during the war – when, what, what, what year were you born in? What year –
LL: 1925.
AS: 1925.
LL: 5th of the 8th 1925.
AS: So, so when the war started you were fourteen [emphasis].
LL: When the war started, erm – I’d left school. Oh [emphasis], that’s when I was working over with the scarp merchant, the one unloading the timber off the ships. That’s the first job I had –
AS: Do you –
LL: And I ended up – actually, oh, a yellow metal mill. It’s a bit like a steel works with all the rollers and a great big wheel and all that material used to come off all bent and we had a machine beside it that would flatten it dead straight. That would then go to the girls, what they called the stamping machine, and they’d stamp out bits of brass the size about, just a bit bigger than say a fifty p. piece. They turned that m, m, into money [emphasis].
AS: Wow, okay.
LL: It was an interesting job [coughs]. Peoples, peoples good, that’s the main thing.
AS: As the war started –
LL: Yeah.
AS: Did you see much of the war in Swansea? Was it –
LL: Did I –
AS: Was it bombed at all, Swansea? Did you see much of the war in Swansea?
LL: Well I joined the RAF in – it’s the book, 1940, 1940, February [emphasis] 1943.
AS: Mhm.
LL: That’s when I signed up with them. I had volunteered – you had to register I think a year before hand so that you could join the ATC and learn something about whatever service you going to go into, Territorials if you’re going in the army. And with the, for the RAF you had the ATC.
AS: Did, is that what you did?
LL: Yeah, and so, I didn’t require all that much because my old man being in the Home Guard, he had a rifle, a three-o-three, and that’s all we wanted to know when we got in the RAF. Who could handle a 303 rifle? But, I’ll tell you one thing, an incident there, I was lucky. I was sitting besides a table, just like that, hand was on [?] there, and I’d been up to the place where there these – oh they had an exercise on, the Home Guard, I had to go up to the barracks and get the rifle. I put it on the bloody table, and the old man started stripping it down to get a good clean overall. He put the blooming [emphasis] rifle down there [emphasis], with the end of it, and the bloody thing went off. It missed my ear by about an inch, yeah, pshh. And it cut a groove in the end of the table, and the old man, when he did go back up on duty, he give them a great big bollocking, ‘cause [coughs] I could have lost an arm easy enough.
AS: Mm.
LL: Yeah.
AS: What –
LL: You got to be, you got to be very careful [coughs]. I wish this cough would go away.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Yeah, yeah carry on.
AS: The – before you joined the Air Force, did you see much of the war in Swansea? Was there bombing, or anything like that?
LL: Well, they had a Blitz in there, I know that. Where were we living then? Most of the time I think we were in, what did they call it? District Road [?] Swansea, Plasmarl, it’s slightly north of the main town centre, and we had our own air raid shelter and that, and [coughs] a good – it was nice and warm [emphasis], it wasn’t cold like a lot of people you see shivering like mad in the middle. Ours was built against another big building, and you used that as one blanket [?], filled it up with earth and built all around it. And that was quite warm in there, yeah.
AS: Mhm.
LL: So we weren’t too bad really [coughs]. Oh bloody hell, I wish – they can’t find anything to get rid of this phlegm I got on my chest, they’re worried if I sit like this ain’t too bad, but I could be dead upright and I got to do it on that bloody bed there. But if I lay down flat it’s worse, but if I can sit upright, dead upright, then phlegm sinks to the bottom –
AS: Yeah.
LL: And then I’m clear for a while, yeah. Anyway carry on.
AS: When you were in Swansea under the bombing, what was it like? Was it night after night or?
LL: Well, we didn’t live there all the time, we were on the outskirts they call it, yeah. Yeah, we moved to an area called Plasmarl and that’s – I’d finished school I think, yeah. Because when I left home I was living with an aunt and I had to walk about two miles [unclear] but [unclear] the mills [emphasis]. Yellow metal mills.
AS: Mhm.
LL: You used to use them as the material brass to make bullet shells, and all that sort of thing. A good job, good pay, so I was alright like that.
AS: Mm. What made you decide to join the Air Force?
LL: Well I had erm, I had two brothers and a sister. The sister was in the WAFs. I think the eldest, no the eldest one was in the army [emphasis] but the second eldest was in the – I would say, erm, what do they call them now? [Pause] oh what do they call them, they were, they were classified as –
AS: Were they sort of soldier, or?
LL: Volunteers, yeah. I forget – they had a special name for them [coughs]. When did he [?] join the services anyway?
AS: Okay.
LL: So that was, one’s in the WAFs and one in the RAF, so I thought ‘I might as well make it a third.’ So I joined the Air Force. But I didn’t realise it when I – I went up to Penarth [emphasis] for an interview and they passed me as a fit for air crew duty. Well flying [emphasis], first of all, then I had to go somewhere else. Oh, we had to do some, go to a place, stay overnight I think, done some exercises to see if you’re fit [emphasis].
AS: Mhm.
LL: ‘Cause you had to be fit to be in the aircrew, if you’re going to fly anyway. And I passed alright. So from then on life carried on like normal, yeah.
AS: So you went up to Penarth, did they give you –
LL: Well, what they do there, they give you a lot of information, like about ranks and things like that, and all the usual ground, what I call the ground work for anybody any service, I mean Navy or Air Force. They still got to recognise you as a cornel or a captain or a corporal, and all the general information about the service you were joining. And that’s what the ground work was, but the flying [emphasis], you start going up for gunners, we went up to somewhere round [?] Scotland, Castle Kennedy, and that’s – we were flying on Anson aircraft then, the Avro Anson. And that only had a turret, a mid upper turret, but it was an Anson towing on the windbags, and you’d have about, what was it? About half a dozen chappies in there. Everybody had a different coloured bullet, so when that bullet went through the bag, the windbag, it would leave some paint. You could tell, tell how many hits you had. So, so when you got back –
AS: Were you any good at it?
LL: When you got back they counted how many little holes and the colour [coughs]. They got your score then, yeah.
AS: Were you any good?
LL: Yeah [emphasis] I thought I was very good. What did I do? Something special up there one day. We changed instructors, who was it? It was laughable really [pause]. It made me laugh at the time, it made me laugh. I was very good with the side-by-side shotgun.
AS: Mhm.
LL: I discovered I think, thanks to listening to the old man talking about in the Home Guard when he was on exercise, what they normally do. You get the gun side to you other [?] and you pass it through, and there’s a time when it stops [emphasis] and then it starts to fall. You fire when it’s on the top, on the apex and then you waited every time. But [coughs] I done this four times out of five, and the [unclear] said ‘oh, we’ll change instructor, instructors,’ and we had a good one in the first place. But, what was it this bloke said something? [Pause] ooh heck, it made me bloody laugh at the time I know that [AS laughs]. Oh Christ – I used to hit for some reason or another, you’d have five [emphasis] bullets to fire through this gun, the turbo [?].
AS: Mhm.
LL: And I hit the fourth one, and he said ‘I bet you a pound you can’t hit this one.’ I says ‘put the gun up [unclear].’ I turned round and it says ‘offices and NCOs should not gamble’ and [laughs] he said ‘you’re a bloody poacher mate’ [AS and LL laugh]. I never [coughs], I never handled a gun before.
AS: Wow.
LL: And yet I was able to do that, you know. Four times out of five, and he looked at him and he says ‘you’re a bloody poacher aren’t you?’ I said ‘I never handled a gun before in all my life.’ But I was watching the old man when he was in the Home Guard and listening to him talking, when they were on exercise and you learn quite a bit that way, yeah.
AS: Mm.
LL: Anyway, what else have you got to go onto? Checked – 20:43
AS: Let’s go back [emphasis] a little bit, before you went to air gunner training –
LL: Well, problem was, six months ground work, what I call ground work, that’s learning all the ranks and all the rules and regulations going into any service. And then six months there ground work, six months flying training. Start off with the Anson, then you went onto the Wellington, Avro Wellington, then up to Winthorpe, Stirlings [emphasis], then you go onto the, what they call the LFS, the Lanc Flying School. That’s where, the first time you sit in a Lancaster. You’re up at RAF Syerston, and you there for – well you’re supposed to be there for a given time, but somebody was, somebody took ill [emphasis] and then they remembered that one of them was the engineer. You didn’t fly – well, you’re not supposed to fly unless you had a full crew, but I, I can’t remember why we – oh, they didn’t need anybody on the Wellingtons, not a flight engineer, he came when we went onto the Stirlings, and then onto the Lancasters [coughs]. And we went into Syserston for that, from there onto the squadron.
AS: Okay.
LL: ‘Cause it was just up the road from Newham [?].
AS: Okay. How did you choose, how did you choose to be an air gunner? Did you do tests?
LL: Do what?
AS: Did you do – did they give you tests to decide if you would be an air gunner or a pilot or?
LL: Erm, no. I think what it was, it started, it started off where they decide [emphasis] you’re in brilliance, you’re intelligent, you’re general [emphasis] knowledge and stuff like that. And oh, you got to be fit. You had to be one hundred percent fit, and I suited everything and they, they said ‘well you qualify for flying duties.’ So that’s what I did. I said ‘oh,’ I didn’t know what aircraft you got to fly in, could have been a tiger moth or, I don’t know. But anyway, we were told we were going to fly Lancasters eventually, on a squadron.
AS: Okay.
LL: Yeah [coughs].
AS: So you were on forty-two course at Castle Kennedy.
LL: Pardon? Yeah [emphasis].
AS: To learn to be a gunner.
LL: Yeah –
AS: And –
LL: And they had – you do your training facing the side of this hangar and on there, there was, you had to chase the path [?] and you had to train the sites of the guns on that path without making the bell ring, because as soon as you hit the line – they had like a roadway, a pathway. These rung the bell as a fault [?] but if you go through straight through it, the two lines, without touching the lines, you got a clear run. I had many clear runs, because you kept on practicing all the time, yeah. But great big, behind the hangars, great big building started at one end, all the bloody way along there, yeah. Shake it mad hoping you didn’t touch the bloody line [AS laughs]. [Coughs] yeah, and that was up at the, now where was that? Oh that was up in Castle Kennedy, Scotland I think, yeah. Somewhere up there.
AS: Okay. And then you, you actually sat in an aeroplane for the first time in your life I guess.
LL: Yeah [emphasis], that was the first aircraft was an Anson, yeah. And that’s the first time I sat in the turret. Although they did have a turret during the training, the groundwork, so you could get used to where the bits and pieces are, how, which way the guns were going to be going, how you line them up and all that sort of thing. That sort of ground work consists of, learning all the basics, I think you could call them, yeah.
AS: And you have to strip the gun and clear stoppages and things?
LL: Oh yeah, you – and, and the thing was this. In case you were, had a failure at high altitude, you had all these flying clothes on, thick gloves like gauntlets [emphasis] and how had to fiddle about wearing them, and if you had a middle of winter now you’d have gloves on. And you just imagine trying to strip that thing down, it was a small parts inside the gun, the 303 [coughs] and you had to strip them down and put them back together again, wearing your gloves.
AS: Where do you put all the pieces when you’re in a turret [LL coughs] at twenty thousand feet?
LL: Oh, this is when you’re in the classroom.
AS: Oh.
LL: You do it all when you’re in the classroom. But [emphasis] you got to shout all the way around you in the turret so you’ve got bugs [?] everywhere. It’s like, it’s like drying, riding a motorbike. You don’t, don’t move your arms like that, you just run handle like that, up and down, that’s all, that’s all there is. It’s all under control, so you just, you don’t move [emphasis], you just move your hands like that. Course looking around all the time.
AS: Is the turret electric or hydraulic?
LL: I think oil [emphasis]. I think oil was the driving force behind it, yeah. It must have been, because they were very worried about any oil leaks when, if you’d been attacked, anything like that. Because you can easily slide on it and injure yourself, ‘cause it is a bit rough inside the aircraft because of all the ribs [?].
AS: Mhm.
LL: And you can easily break an arm, break a leg or something when you steady [?] yourself.
AS: Mm. Did you actually like [emphasis] the flying?
LL: Mm?
AS: When you got into the Anson did you actually like they flying and think ‘this is for me?’
LL: I liked the flying a lot, I really enjoyed that, and especially in the Lanc up there, it’s very comfortable, the seat itself was a strap of fabric, no wider than that but a bit longer, connected from one side to there. And you sat on that thing for anything, eight to nine hours.
AS: Good lord.
LL: Now you’d think, well your backside must have been sore but that strap forms the shape of your backside [unclear] end, and we used to be sitting there for eight or nine hours, longer. I forget what the – I supposed it’s somewhere in there, the longest one, eight and a half hours I think, over Germany, that’s the longest flight we had I think. But you don’t’ feel tired [emphasis] and it’s a lovely feeling, sitting in a lot of bloody clouds, yeah. ‘Cause you don’t know what’s coming the other bloody way.
AS: ‘Cause you faced nearly always the tail?
LL: Yeah.
AS: Yeah, mhm, yeah. When you’d finished on Ansons, was that when you –
LL: Oh –
AS: When you’d finished on Ansons, is that when you, when you were qualified and you got your wings?
LL: Oh, wait a minute [?]. No [coughs] you got your wings when you finished your ground training. The last lesson you get, I forget what it’s all about, but then the old chap says ‘right, you’re now classified as sergeants. You’re, you’ve jumped all those ranks just because you going into aircrew, and also your pay goes up as well.’ So it makes a vast difference when you – that’s going from Bridgnorth in Shropshire which is the last of the ground [emphasis] training. You then go up to Castle Kennedy in Scotland for the, to start your, no, to start your flying, proper gun training then, yeah [coughs].
AS: Mm. When you got your wings and your promotion –
LL: Yeah.
AS: Was there a big parade? Did any – did your relatives come or?
LL: Erm [pause] and where was it? We were in Bridgnorth, I know that [papers shuffle]. Oh, no I think we were in the classroom in Bridgnorth, that was RAF Bridgnorth, yeah. And when the, when the ground course finished, the instructor, he then informed you that you were then made sergeant, you jumped all the ranks and you were made a sergeant and your pay went up as well. [Papers shuffling] so that was a good thing, yeah.
AS: Yeah, [laughs] absolutely. So you went then I suppose on leave for a while, did you?
LL: Erm, I think we might have had a, a long weekend or something like that. Ah yeah [coughs] ‘cause I went home that weekend when we passed out. Now who did I meet? I met somebody – unimportant anyway.
AS: Mm.
LL: Walking through town, a pal a long time ago, a school kid, yeah. I’d gone – I had a bit of a long, a long weekend [emphasis] I think they called it when I went home. And then from there we went from, I went from Swansea all the way up by train to Scotland.
AS: To Castle Kennedy, yeah. Okay, and when you finished Castle Kennedy –
LL: Yeah.
AS: It was round about the time of D-Day. When –
LL: Well, I was never going to teach [?] [coughs] but if it’s in there, mm.
AS: Shall we have a pause for a minute?
[Tape paused and restarted.]
AS: Right Les, we pick up again. I’d like to talk about the OTU and the Wellingtons and –
LL: Yeah.
AS: And crewing up. When you got to the OTU how did you form a crew? How did the crew all [LL laughs] get together?
LL: It was brilliant [emphasis]. You never, you never seen such a process – you couldn’t invent such a thing. I [unclear] gunner, Bill Jenkinson. I suppose – oh, I was behind the door, that’s my favourite bit, behind the door. And Bill was on that side. I said to him, I said to Bill, I said ‘oh, have you got anybody else with you? Why not grab a wireless operator or something like that?’ ‘No,’ I said ‘let’s go and have a look, see what we can see,’ and walked into all these chaps of pilots and navigators, and when [unclear] barracks, and when they were in this long line I saw a pair of feet sticking right out. I said ‘let’s have a look and see what that is, he looks a big bloke.’ [AS laughs] and that was the skipper, a New Zealander.
AS: What’s his name?
LL: And we walked up to him and said ‘you got any crew members yet.’ ‘No.’ I said ‘well you got two gunners,’ ‘oh that’s a good start’ [AS laughs]. We picked up like that [emphasis]. It was long [?], if somebody fancied you, it was – if you didn’t like them then you just passed on. But ‘oh, he looks a friendly’ – ‘I know him, I had a couple of pints with him,’ like that. That’s how you picked up a crew.
AS: So when –
LL: You wouldn’t believe – it was so lackadaisical the way everybody come together as a crew, and yet it worked beautifully.
AS: So you chose your skipper because of the size of his feet?
LL: Yeah [AS laughs]. It’s rather strange how seven people like that, complete strangers, can come together and form a crew. And all more or less you work and play in, with one aircraft, it’s brilliant. And yet you just knitted together and formed a complete crew, yeah.
AS: And when you’d done this dating [?], did you go out and socialise to get to know each other?
LL: Oh, oh yeah. Oh, I’ll tell you a funny thing happened, it’ll make you laugh. When the course – now what was that called? Ah [pause] –
AS: At the OTU?
LL: Upper Heyford.
AS: At the OTU, yeah.
LL: Erm, OTU.
AS: Mhm.
LL: We’d finished the course and everybody passed and we had a party in the sergeants mess, and the – we had lots of drinking going on and all that. And old Bill the rear gunner, he said ‘that bird from the sergeants mess, the cook, she’s caught my eye. I’m going to chat her up’ he said ‘when we finish.’ Well, it was sometime later on I did catch a glimpse of him. Of course he had to see her the following night or something, so I said to him, I said ‘oh, how did you get on last night?’ He just lay on the bed fully clothed looking miserable as sin. I said ‘what did you do?’ I said ‘what did you get?’ [AS laughs]. And he fell silent for a while. I said ‘you must have had some – you must have done something’ or another, similar comment like that. I said ‘what did you get?’ ‘That’s it on the table’ he said, chunk of bread and a chunk of cheese [AS and LL laugh]. I said ‘all that fuss for nothing,’ he said ‘a chunk of cheese and’ – right in the middle of the table. We enjoyed it anyway, we had, I think we had a bottle of beer hidden away somewhere, but it was enjoyable, yeah.
AS: Mhm. Was the flying at the OTU, was it very intensive? Did you do a lot of flying?
LL: Operation – yeah [emphasis]. There is – you do all sorts of trips, daytime and at night time. Short ones, ops, what do you call them? Bumping and something or another –
AS: Circuits and bumps.
LL: Ah yeah that’s it, good, circuits and bumps. You do a lot of that, day and night so that the pilot can get used to flying the aircraft. That’s more than anything else, because there’s nothing you can do from the gunner’s point of view at night time, you can’t see nothing. Not a thing, it’s completely black. You can look down, you can see one light or anything. And the only lights you see is the runway lights, and you can see them quite a distance away. But that’s the only thing to guide [emphasis] you, and it’s up to the navigator to know exactly where you are, so you learn from them, and I should imagine they got some beacons [emphasis] dotted all over the country so, and each one is tuned differently, so you tune, the navigator tunes into them. That’s how they guide you down a narrow alleyway because you’ve got flying, aircraft flying in all directions during the war. You could have a collision anytime [emphasis], you never know it, but that’s it, that’s what it’s all about.
AS: Mm. When you were at the OTU you were – were you straight away confident straight away that you’d chosen a good pilot?
LL: Erm, I think we did. We had a couple of rough landings, bumps, but like everybody else the more you do your job, the more efficient you become. Like you learn – I kept on missing [emphasis] when I was flying over the target, and fair enough the pilot of the, I think it was the Anson, he was very patient because they tell you off in a, a personal way, not giving you a good bollocking but advising [emphasis] you is a proper phrase, what you’ve got to do so everything goes along smoothly like that, yeah. Good enjoyable, I enjoyed it, sitting in there.
AS: Mm, okay. When you moved onto the OTU as a crew, where there many accidents among the other crews at OTU?
LL: [Coughs] Well [pause]. We were at – nearly every [emphasis] station, RAF station we went, we went with an aircraft went missing. Up at [unclear] Castle Kennedy, an Anson went missing over the, not the North Sea, the West Coast.
AS: The Irish Sea?
LL: Yeah, ah that’s, Irish Sea, yeah.
AS: Mm.
LL: He went missing up there. Next station – oh, then we, there was a Wellington. Oh, the Wellington went and crashed somewhere in mid Wales and it must have gone somewhere into a bog [emphasis] because it, it sunk out of sight, nobody could find it. So wherever it is it’s down there rotting. And then we got to – nothing happened up at Newark, Winthorpe. Oh, the Lanc finishing school, that’s the first time you’re in a Lancaster. Joining the circuit I spotted a black shadow on the ground of an aircraft, and you could practically recognise it as a Lancaster. But the strange thing about it was, as if some yob [emphasis] had been there with a spray gun, blood red, and gone all the way around it, framed it just like that. This black shadow on the ground, in line with the perimeter track. And just a line of red all the way round it. They reckon that the black was a plane, the red was the remains of a crew, yeah, when it exploded. There’s nothing, there’s nothing left to show, it was a crew there, it’s just that red mark.
AS: Good lord. We’ll pause for a second.
[Tape paused and restarted.]
AS: Lesley, you were talking about lights, or not having any lights at night –
LL: Yeah.
AS: Could you see the exhausts from your own aircraft, from the Wellington or the Lancaster when you were flying?
LL: I don’t think – I wasn’t aware of it –
AS: Mhm.
LL: But I don’t think, I don’t think we, no I don’t think we did bother with it. We never saw anything because [coughs] I think that the flame from the engine would pass through the back end of it and disappear.
AS: Mhm.
LL: So you did – I don’t think, I can never remember seeing any light or flame or, coming from the engines.
AS: Okay.
LL: And I think they had an extended exhaust pipe [coughs] and it goes under the wing rather than over the top. So it’s out of sight [?] anyway, yeah [coughs].
AS: Yeah. There were two of you as gunners, there was you and Bill Jenkinson.
LL: Yeah.
AS: How did you decide who was gonna be the rear gunner and who was gonna be –
LL: Oh, well, well we were in a bedroom like this, a long hut. A peace [emphasis] time building, brickwork. Bill was on that side of the door, I was behind it.
AS: Mhm.
LL: And I had a look around and Bill was the nearest and I said ‘you got anybody to go up with you Bill?’
AS: Mm, mm.
LL: ‘No not yet’ he said, ‘but I want to be a rear gunner.’ ‘Oh that’s alright,’ I said, ‘I’ll take mid upper gunner position then’ –
AS: Oh so you decided between you?
LL: Yeah.
AS: Yeah, okay.
LL: He said ‘alright, that’s [coughs] that’s what I want to be, rear gunner.’ So that’s how we decided.
AS: Mm, okay. So you did a fair bit of flying at the OTU on Wellingtons.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Were they good, were they good aircraft, or were they pretty ropey at that time?
LL: No, oh [emphasis]. They must have been reliable because I think [emphasis] now you come to mention it, a lot of them were [coughs] exit [?] squadron.
AS: Mhm.
LL: And that had to be kept in a good condition, especially going on operations. The good maintenance on that aircraft was carried on I think through the training sessions. So you did have reliable aircraft – I can’t ever remember us having, if we ever – well you have a stimulated three engine landing for practice with a pilot [coughs], see how it handles landing and taking off.
AS: okay. So you were on forty-four course at –
LL: Sixty, sixty one.
AS: Okay. The, the course you were on at 16 OTU that was forty-four course. Did you, did you pass out from there, did you have a passing out parade when you finished at OTU?
LL: Erm [pause] Upper Heywood.
AS: Mm.
LL: OTU, operational training – no [emphasis] apart from having this, this party at the end of the course when Bill and all this cook from the sergeants mess catching his eye [AS laughs]. That’s the only incident I can remember [emphasis] in there.
AS: Okay.
LL: It was a very quiet sort of a station, yeah.
AS: Okay. And then you went on leave [emphasis], did you?
LL: I think we must have because I remember – I went on, possibly a long weekend because I went home to Swansea and I had to get on, what do you call the, they call the Coastal Train down there. It goes all the way round the outside of Wales until you get up into Scotland. You didn’t go across the midlands, I think they were kept clear for munitions [?] and all so you go on this track [coughs], going through small village all the way up to go up to Scotland.
AS: That must have taken forever [emphasis].
LL: Yeah, it does. But it’s surprising how quickly time goes when you’re moving, you know. And you tend to remember [emphasis] places like that. You, you seen it in your school days on a map where certain places are, so like ‘oh this is so and so,’ ‘that’s so and so.’ You go, time soon goes, yeah. Oh take my tea away, too much, too much of that.
AS: Mhm. Then after the OTU you went onto Stirlings at the Heavy Conversion Unit at Winthorpe.
LL: Er, yeah, Winthorpe, that’s where we were Stirlings.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Very, very quiet, not much happened on that station to my, to my knowledge anyway.
AS: Mhm.
LL: No I can’t think of any [coughs] –
AS: But at –
LL: Winthorpe –
AS: Mm.
LL: Stirlings, no I don’t think much happened on there. Very quiet station.
AS: Okay, mhm.
LL: At Winthorpe, yeah. Near Newark, yeah.
AS: Mhm.
LL: That’s it.
AS: But then, then did you start doing exercises with fighter aircraft in the sky, on the Stirlings?
LL: Erm –
AS: The fighter affiliation [?] –
LL: We didn’t do it on the Wellingtons because it’s got no mid upper turret, so the Stirling would have been the first aircraft. No hang on. The Wellington would have been a job for the rear gunner, there’s no mid upper gunner turret, so I used to stand at the astrodome and looking out possibly [unclear] one of the navigator might want it or somebody want some information. You can see everything but there’s nothing to see, it’s all black. So what they expect you to see in the darkness like that I don’t know. But I had a sometimes it was a longish journey and other times it was just bumps, bumps and whatever, yeah [coughs].
AS: Mhm. So that’s just over a month on Stirlings from mid October to mid November 1944. I suppose pulling you together as a crew still.
LL: Yeah, well you go from Wellingtons which has only got one active turret, you go onto a Stirling then which has got the two.
AS: Mm.
LL: It’s got three turrets actually – one in the doors, mid upper turret and a tail gunner, yeah.
AS: Mhm.
LL: But there’s only two gunners there anyway.
AS: And so does the bomb aimer use the front turret?
LL: Yeah, Well sometimes if necessary he can [emphasis] get up there if you got time [coughs].
AS: And then you went on, for a short time to the Lancaster Finishing School.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Right.
LL: Yeah, yeah we passed away [?] – yeah the Lanc Finishing School is the last time, oh the first time you sit in [emphasis] a Lancaster, ‘cause then that prepares you for your next station which for us was just up the road in Lincoln. That’s the only place, the first place you sit in a turret of a Lancaster, so the Lancaster Finishing School. That’s the whole idea of it, introduce you to the aircraft you’re going to fly, yeah, which is a good thing really, yeah.
AS: And how did that feel? Did that feel –
LL: I rather liked it myself, yeah, quite pleasant. It was a nice steady aircraft when you were flying, you know, it was rather stable, and often you see them bumping about but that one, it seems to hold itself dead level the whole time. It’s pretty well set up. I think that applies to a lot of them during the war.
AS: And that was a really modern aeroplane then.
LL: Yeah, yeah. And according to the book, it was a mark three I believe that we ended up with up on the squadron, ‘cause you had all the latest radar equipment and all that stuff in it.
AS: Mhm. But nothing special happened at Lanc Finishing School that you recall?
LL: Erm, apart from seeing that shadow with the red painted on, that was a very quiet station, yeah. You do, you do day and night flying in it. But you can’t see a blooming thing at night, anyway.
AS: Even though you’ve got the best view at the top of the aeroplane?
LL: Yeah you can’t see – well, people don’t realise what a blackout is. A blackout is every [emphasis] light [emphasis] is out [emphasis].
AS: Mhm.
LL: It’s complete darkness, and if you happen to show a light it’s so quiet that you can hear somebody shout out ‘put that bloody light out,’ or so ‘shut that doors, shut that window,’ something like that.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Because it’s so black [emphasis] that you spotted straight away – you go ‘well what the hell’s that then?’ Or ‘some buggar’s opened the window’ or something like that.
AS: But when you’re airborne with the stars and the moon, could you see horizontally or above you? [LL coughs] Could you see other aircraft in the sky, for instance?
LL: [Pause] You could see the horizon, the dark earth and if it’s a moonlit light you could see the curve of the earth and the difference – the horizon [emphasis], you could see the difference. Now, an interesting thing happened there. Talking about UFOs, now this is true this. There was a starlit night; you could see the horizon and the end of the darkness and all of the stars. And I thought ‘that’s funny, that star’s moving faster than the others.’ I kept on coming around to it [coughs]. That one star, that I believe could have been one of these foreign things, a UFO I believe. I tell you why, [talking in the background]. Yeah, it’s rather strange, nobody speaks [emphasis] when you’re in an aircraft, everybody’s concentrating on the job. You’re a navigator you’re concentrating, engineer, and all that you concentrate on – and I was looking and I thought ‘he’s moving.’ And I followed that. As it got overhead, I heard – nobody speaks [emphasis] when you’re flying, and this voice, I heard this voice as clear as you were talking. ‘We’re of no danger to you.’ So where did that voice come from? Nobody spoke, you never speak unless you’re telling the navigator tells the pilot ‘oh we’ve got to turn right here, and our starboard’ or something like that, or somebody passing a message, that’s the only time you speak. And you see somebody spoke just [emphasis] as clear as if it was in the aircraft with you. ‘We’re of no danger to you,’ so where did the voice come from?
AS: Wow. Did you discuss this with your crew later?
LL: No, well the thing is, you never mentioned – and this is strange. You never mentioned anything inusual [emphasis] because you then put everybody on nerves end –
AS: Mm.
LL: Thinking ‘now what’s he on about?’
AS: Yeah.
LL: But then the next thing you know, ‘what the hell’s he bloody on about, silly, he bloody drunk again,’ something like that. But, so you kept everything to yourself, and this is why it’s so quiet in the aircraft, the only time you’d speak if you’re passing instructions to anybody.
AS: It sounds like you were a very disciplined [emphasis] crew. Did your skipper keep tight discipline and make –
LL: Erm, well it seemed that we were completely at ease. I can’t remember the pilot or anybody for that sort of losing their temper. It’s rather strange, as if you’re entering another world. It’s very calm [emphasis] in there, when you’re flying, whether it’s the quietness, the only sound you can hear is the engines, but then you got your helmet on and you got your earphones, so you blocked out all the sound, the external sounds. So the only thing you can hear is when anybody speaks inside [emphasis] the aircraft. Otherwise it was dead quiet. It’s like this place now, yeah.
AS: Can you hear your own breathing?
LL: Hmm?
AS: Can you hear your own breathing on your mask? Checked – 59:41
LL: Ah now you come to mention, you did sometimes if you got excited, yeah. You’re bound to, yeah, and oh, another time was if your oxygen tube, pipe got disconnected, then you can hear all sorts of things then. Bad connection [?] from you to the turret, it’s complete, you can’t hear nothing else ‘cause it’s all coming through there, and what goes there comes from the person who’s either flying it or the crew, other members of the crew, yeah.
AS: So did you have this then, did your oxygen come disconnected?
LL: Yeah, it did. Now what happened there then? [Pause] oxygen lack at high altitude is very dangerous. A lot of things can go wrong, you’re maybe doing things that you would not normally do [coughs]. But, so you do take care of all your equipment at all times, to make sure everything is working right, and every switch is in the right position sort of thing.
AS: Mm.
LL: You got to be very careful when you’re flying.
AS: Did you check on each other to make sure you were all –
LL: Oh, oh, I’ll tell you what, I used to regular but you do it in a manner that you’re not scaring them, not upsetting them. ‘You alright down there Bill? You warm enough?’ Some remark like that.
AS: Yeah.
LL: You didn’t agitate any problem or anything like that, you kept quiet. Because anybody under tension could miss things. But when it’s all quiet like that and you’re concentrating you were quite safe I think, yeah.
AS: Mm. When you were on the ground as a crew, did you practice your drills? Your dingy drills, your evacuation drills?
LL: Well, Bridgnorth was some of the ground staff. Oh we did some dingy [emphasis] drill up at [unclear] at Castle Kennedy in Scotland. You cling onto an imitation, well a platform which represented the wing of the aircraft, and you want to jump [emphasis]. You’re in a pond, and then you had to get to the raft. Now, with all the flying clothes on, everything, you’re heavy, and you’ve got to get there as quickly as you can, otherwise – well it’s not all that deep anyway just sufficient to wet yourself or so, all your clothes. And you just go in and sort of change and put dry clothes on.
AS: Mhm, when you finished, or any time really, did you really think about ‘well, I’ll be going bombing soon?’ Did you think that you were about to go to war?
LL: No, not to my knowledge. I never – flying was just flying to me, and you look forward [emphasis] to it, it’s getting you off the ground. You join the Air Force to flying an air, to flying in aircraft, not to keep marching on the bloody square all the time.
AS: So even on operations you were keen to go flying?
LL: Oh, oh yeah. Never where you are – you wanted to get away from the, from the monotony of class, in the classes, because quite often you get different instructors but the subject is always the same. They drilling [emphasis] it into you, they, and they’ve got to succeed in getting that knowledge into you because it could save your life, and not only you but the aircraft and the rest of the crew.
AS: So going on operations was almost a relief [emphasis] to stop –
LL: It was in a way [pause]. There was a – I forget what happened, but we were on a very heavy raid. Loads of bloody shells everywhere, exploding all around you. I found that – now this is stupid [emphasis]. I was in an aircraft with five or six tonnes of high explosive bombs. I was trying to stand up in the mid upper turret, shaking like a leaf on a tree, shivering, frightened like hell, and it, well. It’s like the noise is like flying in a thunderstorm, a very heavy thunderstorm. And then the bumping [emphasis] about of bumps from the shells [?] is like when they go on these rapid waterfalls, you’re bumping all over the place – what was the other thing? Very calm sort of thing. I suddenly – I was shaking like mad, and then as quickly as it appeared, the condition disappeared completely. Instead of being frightened or scared stiff and god knows what, I just sat down there in amongst all this noise and what have you, I just sat and relaxed. And as if somebody had said ‘welcome to the club, you’re a survivor. You lost the fear of death.’ And there it was, in exactly the same conditions, shaking like mad and all that, I just sat down like we are now, and as if I was on a training flight. And all this going on outside, just outside the door [emphasis], and I just sat down there as if nothing was wrong. How your brain bloody works I don’t know, but I just sat down there, still the same conditions, but I wasn’t worried.
AS: Mm.
LL: It’s funny really, yeah, ‘cause – just normal training flight and I must be bloody mad or something [AS laughs].
AS: And you were fine from then on?
LL: Yeah.
AS: Yeah.
LL: We were going on a raid, I forget where it was, somewhere, somewhere heavy [emphasis] I know that. And I know one thing that – in the, oh, we got a 50, 61 Squadron newsletter that comes out once every three months I think. Somebody wrote an article about what happened over at Hamburg on this – it’s on there, the raid during the 61 Squadron I think [papers shuffling]. Oh, some bloke describing all the anti-aircraft shells everywhere. And these German [papers continue to shuffle] jets in amongst the aircraft. What did he – and someone else wrote it, that’s what drew my attention to it. It was completely wrong [emphasis]. He made it up, because the day in question, the 9th of the 4th, not one anti-aircraft shell was fired, and the only aircraft we saw was a German jet, the 262, and that flew head on, straight through the middle, plonk. Right through this group, turned round and knocked down three aircraft. We didn’t see the fourth go down but you’re in a group of six sevens, forty-two, six across and six behind them below, and that fighter knocked down three on one, on our side. You got the, I think the bombing leader on that end comes up to us and it’s a tail end Charlie sort of thing [coughs]. You there [?] to form the six in the front. That thing went down, but that thing [?] got shot on the following day with the Yanks. They damaged this aircraft, they had to find a place to land, and when they was looking and doing something with the controls of the aircraft, he didn’t see the crater in the middle of the runway. Straight in and up he went. That was the following day.
AS: That was the German pilot?
LL: Yeah.
AS: So, so with your six sevens of forty-two aircraft, that was both squadrons flying together, 50 and 61?
LL: Well, it was the son of the late rear gunner, he [pause] – did he phone or ring, write a letter? [Pause] I forget now.
AS: Okay, we’ll, we’ll come back to that later.
LL: [Unclear] no we’ll come back to it.
AS: Mm. So you were forty-two, in daylight, flying in formation.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Okay, so that must have been the two squadrons together.
LL: Ah, ah I know, I know. In that logbook, that’s all the operations and all the flying we did as a crew.
AS: Mhm.
LL: No other squadron is mentioned, but the son of the rear gunner, he must have something, telly or something, internet. He found that the Dambusters are not mentioned in there, but the Dambusters and us were on the same raids.
AS: Okay.
LL: And how I know that, we were on the one raid and I pointed out to the – it was Bill started it first. He said ‘look at that light down there’ he said ‘down on the port side.’ And he said something about ‘possibly turn back soon because it looks like the engines were not coping with the load.’ And we followed this progress, you didn’t focus on it you just casually glanced – it kept on coming nearer and nearer. But when that thing came near enough, we thought it was an extra fuel tank you know, to set fire to buildings, but that was the latest bomb that the RAF aircraft would, could carry. What was it, twenty-two thousand pounds?
AS: Is it the, the Tall Boy was it?
LL: Yeah.
AS: Yes.
LL: And that’s what they called it. But we followed that and gradually, so it came level with us, and you know when people bail out of an aircraft they travel at the same speed as the aircraft, and same applies to your bomb load, because when that plane gradually comes up dead level with us, wing tip to wing tip, the release of such a weight, that plane disappeared. I couldn’t see it, I couldn’t bend my head back to see if they were overhead, but it just disappeared. And I was left with a view of this great big bomb flying level with our [AS laughs] wingtip. If we had a camera, nobody would have believed it was a fake picture, but it was the – I’d heard of [?] the people travel the same speed as the aircraft when they bail out, so that bomb load does and gradually [emphasis] it sinks. But for what seemed like an eternity it just stood there level with the wing and then it dropped. The size of that thing there, my gosh [emphasis], long as this bloody room nearly.
AS: Well I think [emphasis] the biggest one was twenty-two thousand pounds was it?
LL: Yeah that’s it, that was, that was this Dambusters aircraft [coughs] because a raid is made up of possibly a dozen or more squadrons all different ones, all with different purposes and all with different buildings to go to, stores or oil depots or things like that.
AS: Yeah, could you remember, could you talk me through a typical raid, from getting up in the morning to going to briefing, what was it like? [LL coughs] say a daytime raid.
LL: Well you get up in the morning – well more often than not your day, your own [emphasis] day starts about dinner time, because you’d been out, say, the night before, so you’ve had your kip and you go down to the sergeants mess for lunch. And then you got your briefing [emphasis] in the afternoon, and then similar, if it’s a late takeoff it’s normally about tea time or something like that.
AS: What was the briefing like?
LL: Erm, well they give you all the details, the name of the target – well it’s more for navigation than anything else. Bu you’re also advised that there are certain airfields about with various fighters in there. And at that point of the war [?] it was mainly German jets, the 262. And that’s the only time we ever – I’ve actually been that close it’s practically this distance away from here to the other side of the passage. And I should imagine that pilot, he would have knocked down the three outside ours, and that was I think two 61 Squadron aircraft went down and a 50, and I could imagine now [emphasis], I didn’t think of it then, I could imagine the bloke swinging his aircraft around and lining it up, and he weren’t that far away, he couldn’t have bloody missed us, and I should imagine that as he was able to press the button, I told him, the pilot, to take aversive action, and the pilot caught up and eighty-one [?] straight through, yeah. Carried on, he knocked down that three besides us and that was it, yeah.
AS: Mm. The luck of the draw.
LL: Sometimes it gets exciting but otherwise it’s boring [emphasis].
AS: Mhm.
LL: You’re just sitting there doing nothing. Nothing you can do about it, no.
AS: When you were flying on daylights –
LL: Yeah.
AS: Did you have fighter escort?
LL: No, never saw any.
AS: Okay.
LL: They might have been out of range, some distance away not to distract your attention, but I could, could never ever, 1943, forty-four, no forty-five –
AS: Forty-five.
LL: February forty-five was the first raid we’d done. Never had I seen anything there to protect us, you had to protect yourselves.
AS: So you weren’t, you weren’t told at briefing that there’d be –
LL: Yeah.
AS: You weren’t told at the briefing that there would be fighter cover or anything?
LL: Yeah, that’s all you, that’s all you relied on, whatever the squadron leader tells you during your briefing.
AS: Mm.
LL: Nothing else, target and all this and that, and they tell you the airfields with various aircraft, but at that time of the war, it ended a couple of days later anyway [emphasis], and [coughs] I’ll tell you what, in the areas [?] sort of thing, give you some advice, but you never took too much notice of it, because you know in about two, three days the war’s gonna end.
AS: So when you, so when you went on ops you knew this was just about the finish did you?
LL: Yeah, for us it was a limited period of time from the beginning of February I think it was until what was it, May?
AS: May, yeah.
LL: Yeah, that’s my wartime experience, that, the last three months, yeah.
AS: So –
LL: It was bad enough then –
AS: Yeah.
LL: When you consider fifty-six, fifty-eight youngsters lost, thousand [emphasis] lost like that.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Great number of men, and all youngsters, yeah.
AS: And still being killed at the very end.
LL: Yeah, yeah.
AS: Like your three aircraft.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Yeah.
LL: Yeah, practically the last, last day but one, down they went. I did see one of those Lancs splitting off. Either the pilot, mid upper gunner was sound asleep or something, or the bomb aimer above wasn’t with it because that aircraft broke right in half [emphasis], with [unclear] where the mid upper turret, mid upper turret gunner must have been killed instantly because the aircraft broke in half and the tail end gone down there swinging like a pendulum.
AS: Mm.
LL: And the whole front of it just went straight down. I don’t think any of them, anybody got out of it alive, I think they lost. Another aircraft was shot down further down and out of that, what was that, twenty, twenty, only a few survived, all the rest gone. There aren’t any survivors – once they start going down you can’t get out of them, yeah. That’s a big problem.
AS: Hmm. So still really dangerous with the flak and the fighters.
LL: Yeah you, well you did worry about it I think internally, but I think it soon passes over once you get used to it I think. You get accustomed to all this noise and bumping that goes on, and you accept it as part of the job, simple as that, yeah.
AS: Okay. We were talking about a typical mission. After the briefing you’d have your meal and then what would happen?
LL: Well erm [pause] first thing out to the aircraft. What you do there from then on, you were double checking all what everybody else had done. You check all your equipment, navigator and wireless operator, everything, everyone checks everything is okay. And then you just hang about, have a chat with the ground crew, discuss something like that. You just spending time until a tank [?] would takeoff. Comes on usually has after a meal or sometime in the afternoon, yeah [zipping noise].
AS: How did you get out to the aircraft?
LL: Oh, well we had transport [zipping noise]. We had one of these little round Land Rover things, you never walked because moving about on foot you’re sweating, and that’s the last thing you want to get into an aircraft and you gonna fly high and you’re sweating, because then you really get cold [emphasis]. It’s like when you have a bath in the winter, it’s not so comfortable as having a bath in the summer. It’s still having a bath [coughs] and you’re still flying but if you’re sweating you’re much colder. [Coughs] it’s a bloody nuisance this is.
AS: Did your flying kit generally keep you warm?
LL: Yeah, yeah. It was electrically operated, like yeah – oh it was like a pair of overalls [emphasis] you put on completely. Under your – oh, it was outside your trousers but I think you had your jacket – oh you had all your flying clothes on, thick, thick like sheep’s wool uniform –
AS: Mhm.
LL: All over you to keep you warm. And you wore mittens or gloves, gauntlets, they were plugged in as well. It was like an electric seat and that kept you warm when you were flying.
AS: Okay.
LL: So it wasn’t too bad.
AS: And some of your trips were quite long weren’t they?
LL: Oh yeah. I done eight and a half hours I think, or was it nine? But they’re not as long as some of these people have done, they’ve gone further and flying for ten or twelve hours.
AS: Mhm. And Nuremburg, that’s a long one.
LL: Yeah. I think eight and a half or nine and a half was the longest I think we done. It’s recorded in there anyway, somewhere.
AS: Mm. A really basic question is how did you use the loo, or did you, in the aeroplane?
LL: How did you?
AS: Use the toilet in the aeroplane? With all this suit [emphasis] on.
LL: Ah, now that’s a big problem. I never can remember, I never did do anything. Because the last thing you do, usually after a meal, you dive into the toilet and you get rid of all your problems down there [AS laughs]. And then – you got to be relaxed before you get in the aircraft. Remember you don’t want any distractions of any description.
AS: Mhm.
LL: That’s the only way I can put that, yeah.
AS: Changing tack a little bit, your skipper was commissioned.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Did that make a difference to the way the crew operated?
LL: No, he was still a skipper to us.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Mm, number – I think – well no, don’t forget you’re flying together, you’re practically living together, you don’t necessarily use the same sergeants mess because you’re not supposed to fly, what was it? A four engine aircraft, say a Stirling, a pilot must have – I don’t think the pilot was allowed to fly one of them unless he was a pilot or flying officer [coughs]. And when you got onto the Lancasters as if there was an unwritten law. You can’t fly in these aircraft unless you’re a flight lieutenant.
AS: Really?
LL: Yeah. And straight away, you move from one station to another and you gain all those ranks, and it’s the same as when we passed out at a training centre. You go from the lowest rank in the RAF to a sergeant, with an increase in pay which is a good thing, yeah.
AS: Did you, did you – what did you feel about bombing at the time? Was it just a job or did you feel sympathy for the people underneath, or?
LL: Erm, bear in mind that at that time I was living in Swansea and we were going through a Blitz over there.
AS: Mm.
LL: And they say that you dump [?] the bomb that’s going to kill you, you don’t hear that coming down. But you can’t get any nearer than about a hundred yards and you can still hear it, because I think it was at, what I remember, this chap must have been a doctor, and his wife and a son, and they were in a bungalow and that disappeared, and that was only a hundred yards away. But you heard this noise like a whistling sound, and that was it on its way down, the bomb on its way down. There was nothing left, there was a great big hole there and that’s all that was left of that little bungalow.
AS: In Swansea?
LL: Yeah, and that was during the Blitz, yeah. A bit of a noisy place down there. And we weren’t even in the centre of the town, we were on the edge of it, only about a well, a mile, maybe a mile and half from the centre of the town. Otherwise it was just a distant banging that goes on [coughs].
AS: Mm. And then at the end of May, operations, well, operations stopped. You finished operational flying in May 1954.
LL: Yeah.
AS: What happened to you after that?
LL: Interesting. The squadron got rid of its Lancasters. It changed over to the Lincolns. Now you might know, the Lancaster had a mid upper turret, the Lincoln hadn’t. So all the mid upper gunners had to remuster, and you had a discussion ‘where you going to go to?’ Sometimes the officers required certain people at certain stations, but more often than not they remuster to go to Marsham [?] to learn to drive [coughs]. Because don’t forget we were only kids at the time, only eighteen, so the more you learnt the better, and this is how I come to end up in Marsham [?] learning to drive.
AS: Okay.
LL: And that was a – what was I then? I left the flying when I was well, eighteen, I was still eighteen then, yeah. Yeah that’s when I went over to Marsham [?] and I’ve been in the air ever since, yeah.
AS: When you remustered, you kept your rank –
LL: Yeah, yeah you kept your rank and your pay.
AS: And your badge?
LL: Yeah, and the badge [coughs]. I never know, never knew where my wing went, my air gunner’s wing, and the length of ribbons like I got on the photograph.
AS: Mhm.
LL: Somebody must have thrown them out, I don’t know where. I used to keep a lot of the stuff altogether like we did with this.
AS: Mhm.
LL: But where they’ve gone to – they’ve disappeared now, anyway.
AS: Mhm. So you remustered as a driver in the Air Force.
LL: Yeah.
AS: And then where did you get posted to after that?
LL: Ah, where, Marsham [?]. I remember being interviewed with a friendly officer. He said ‘right, now’ he said, ‘we got to get posted now. What about going down to St Athan’s? That’s in Wales.’ I said ‘no good going down there, pubs are closed on Sundays’ [AS laughs]. That’s all I could answer, then he looked through some books around. ‘Bristol’ he said.’ ‘Ooh that’s alright’ I said, ‘I got a niece or a relative still down there in Bristol,’ I said ‘we could go down there.’ ‘Pucklechurch’ he said, that was a transport maintenance station and we used to do a lot of this, taking the vehicle, RAF vehicles from Pucklechurch and I think it’s up to Quedgeley [emphasis], place near Gloucester?
AS: Mm.
LL: I used to do that run quite often, and this is funny. Now then, what was required by the mechanics, whatever was on that list, you had to bring that vehicle in. You take the vehicle out that had been repaired and restored, and you bring another back, so you didn’t have an idle journey. And I came back, all sorts of private cars, officers cars, and all. And you know what those Queen Mary’s are?
AS: Yes, mhm.
LL: The long aircraft carriers. I had to bring one of them back [coughs]. You had a building – on the station, Pucklechurch, you had a building, car park was this side, had this, I had this car, this Queen Mary, and I must have remembered what the driving instructor had said. ‘Pause briefly, have a look what sort of route you’re going to take, if you’re getting the vehicle out [emphasis] of the car park. And you’d get so far and close round [?] to the bend, and then you start turning,’ so you were lined up ready to go on. And I thought ‘well briefly I did that’ but in reverse, and I paused very slowly and I thought ‘I’ve gotta go there, there, there, there.’ I levelled [?] then lined myself up – I didn’t move the vehicle, just looked. ‘Right go on then, right God, I’ve worked the route out how to go out backwards with this Queen Mary,’ I went all the way around and went all the way in. Never touched the side [AS laughs] and all of a sudden I heard this voice. ‘Loosemore you’re a liar,’ well I thought ‘how’s that?’ I looked round, couldn’t see anybody, and I heard this voice again. And there was this, I think it was the transport officer and he said ‘you’re a bloody liar, you tell anybody who’s just done that they’ll call you a bloody liar mate.’ I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I’d never driven a Queen Mary before, and I just didn’t want to shut him down [?], go so far and backed up and that was dead [emphasis] in line. I could see the pillars of the windscreen, between the windscreen and it was all in, dead in line. And that’s what that transport officer was shouting.
AS: Mm.
LL: ‘You tell anybody you just done that,’ and I was dead [emphasis] in line. And he wouldn’t believe me, wouldn’t believe me.
AS: Brilliant.
LL: I didn’t have the heart to tell him I’d never driven one before [AS laughs], mm.
AS: When, just as you left the squadron –
LL: Yeah.
AS: What was it like leaving your crew? Did they go on without you?
LL: Ah, no. That was rather strange that. I don’t think, no. It was proper procedure, because you were guided towards an office and all this rubbish, what I call rubbish piled on the floor. The officer then said ‘dump all you want to get rid of, take what you want,’ just like that. And there was all sorts of stuff, but your uniform, you didn’t want that, a lot of stuff straight on the pile. But if there was anything you wanted you just grabbed. I grabbed a couple of towels, that’s about all I wanted. Nice brand new towels, and I forget [?] what I didn’t want, but I could have had anything off that pile, he just said ‘take all you want.’ But I couldn’t for the life of me, well there was nothing I wanted really.
AS: Mm.
LL: Everything. But I did grab a couple of towels.
AS: Mhm.
LL: And all the other, the wrong number on it but you could always cross that number off and put your own number next to it, and name, yeah.
AS: What about leaving your crew, what did that feel like?
LL: Well as I said, I didn’t know they’d gone [emphasis].
AS: Oh okay.
LL: No, because I was sent straight to the dumping ground, the office.
AS: Mhm.
LL: When they went, I hadn’t seen then since [coughs] ‘cause they went possibly to another, to get ready to go to another station.
AS: Mm.
LL: Because I think they left, they left Skellingthorpe and they might have gone somewhere onto another squadron [coughs].
AS: Okay, so you didn’t manage to keep in touch?
LL: Oh, the only – oh I did with, oh I make [pause], did I see him? I might have had a letter or a phone call to say that the rear gunner who travelled from Ormskirk in Lancashire [coughs].
AS: Mm.
LL: He was with a fellow officer. I think we were all warrant officers by then. Oh they were at Crewe Station, and he said, he had to answer a call of nature [coughs]. And he was with this other bloke, I think a warrant officer, with his two kitbags [coughs]. When he came out his mate was missing and his kitbag. All his kit was in there. His family didn’t know what he had done during the war. The bloke disappeared, so did his kitbag with all his stuff like that in there.
AS: All his logbook and –
LL: I thought, he was telling me about it [coughs]. And when I was – I had a letter from his son telling me, telling me what happened, I thought ‘well, it’s not fair really.’ He’d got all this – it wasn’t too long back. His family didn’t know anything about his service life, not a thing. So been in contact with him, I thought ‘well, it’s only fair.’ You can change my name to any member of the crew, it’s exactly the same. All the flying you do is as a crew [emphasis], and all, no stranger amongst them. So if I take my name off and put yours instead, nobody could be any wiser because you all fly together as a crew and not as an individual with somebody else. So the recording on there is exactly the same, right the way through.
AS: Mm.
LL: All seven of us got exactly the same written on there.
AS: So you made a copy and gave it to –
LL: Yeah –
AS: The son.
LL: I did, I copied it I think.
AS: Yeah.
LL: You can have that if you want it.
AS: Thank you.
LL: It’s entirely up to you.
AS: Thank you.
LL: I think – oh, when I did the copying for Bill I done an extra one, in case I came across somebody else who wanted one, so I’ve always had – it’s been spare so I’m alright that way [?].
AS: Thank you. That’s been absolutely [emphasis] – we’ve been talking for two hours. Shall we stop now, I think?
LL: What do you want to do now, anything?
AS: I think we’ve pretty well covered most [emphasis] of what I was going to say, maybe we could pause now.
LL: Well what we could do, we could open that door there and when – you can unlock it and have a bit of air come through, it’s getting a bit stale in here, yeah.
AS: That’s what we’ll do. Thank you very much.
LL: Yeah.
AS: Cheers.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Lesley Joseph Loosemoore
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Adam Sutch
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-11-16
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Sound
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ALoosemoreLJ151116
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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01:41:32 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Les Loosemore describes his upbringing and employment history in Swansea before joining the war in 1945. He describes the Blitz in Swansea before training to be a mid upper gunner for 61 Squadron. He describes his rather intensive training, including his time at the Lancaster Finishing School, the crewing up process, the importance of maintaining equipment and the various aircraft he flew, including Ansons, Wellingtons and Lancasters. He articulates the atmosphere onboard an aircraft during an operation, recalling the silence as everyone concentrated on their own duties and the fear he felt on his first few operations. He recalls watching the aircraft next to him dropping a Tallboy (or Grand Slam) bomb, before likening the noise of a operation to that of heavy thunder. He flew operations for three months before the war ended, at which point the mid upper gunners were no longer needed. He retrained as a driver although missed saying goodbye to his crew.
Contributor
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Katie Gilbert
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
Wales--Swansea
Temporal Coverage
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1943-02
1944
1945
61 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bombing
crewing up
fear
Grand Slam
ground personnel
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Me 262
military service conditions
Operational Training Unit
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Winthorpe
sanitation
service vehicle
Stirling
Tallboy
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1148/11705/AStopesRoeM150601.2.mp3
ef8f612b8ada6cba1003d1b6a12014ac
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Title
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Stopes-Roe, Mary
M Stopes-Roe
Dr Mary Stopes-Roe
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Mary Stopes-Roe ( 1927 - 2019), the daughter of the designer Barnes Wallis.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-01
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Stopes-Roe, M
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Andrew Panton. The interviewee is Mary Stopes Roe. The interview is taking place at Mrs Stopes Roe’s home in Birmingham on the 30th of May 2015. Mrs Stopes Roe is the daughter of Sir Barnes Wallis the English scientist, engineer and inventor.
MSR: All through the 30s we used to go on wonderful camping holidays down to Dorset. The Isle of Purbeck. And my father, they were lovely holidays, he was such fun on those holidays. And one of the games that we played there was skipping pebbles across the water, you know. As one does. Or some people do. Anyway, he used to skip pebbles across the water and he could get his to do eight or nine or something or other. I never could do it. It’s that flick of the, twist of the wrist which I never got and mine used to go plop and plop and down. But it was great fun, you know. That, I mean of course it isn’t exactly straightforwardly linked to the bouncing bomb but it was something that was in our background. And my father asked us four, well he told us four, to collect my mother’s old tin wash tub, to fill it with cold water which we brought out in cans and things from the kitchen and poured into the washtub. And it was placed on the garden table and then my father produced a catapult which he’d had made at the works and he borrowed my sisters’ marbles and he [laughs] he shot the marbles over the water in the water tub. And there were, there was a string spread across the water tub. And my brother who was the eldest and the most clever had to say whether the bobber went under or over the string and how many times it bounced going across the tub. And the rest of us stood and watched just thinking that daddy was playing a nice game. And then our job was to find the marbles when they’d dropped off the other side. The dear old family doctor who’d come up for reasons, I think my mother was worried about — I don’t know what she was worried about but anyway he was such a dear old friend he came a lot. And he stood in the background and there he is in the picture. My mother, who was very snap happy with her little Kodak thing, photographed everything that happened and she photographed that. And there we all are for time until eternity. Standing by the wash tub on the garden terrace. And my mother later reported that we children were all there of course and when, when the, when the raid was public knowledge my mother reported of course the children never said anything. Thinking that we were very virtuous. I mean she put about the idea that we were very virtuous and, you know, careful. Actually, of course, what really happened was we didn’t say anything was because we had no idea why he was playing this jolly game in the garden. And if you say to your friends when you’re sort of thirteen fourteen’ish, ‘Well my father bounced marbles on the water tub in the garden.’ I mean, you don’t do you because it sounds so stupid. So of course, we didn’t say anything. But the minute the raid was reported I realized what that was for. Roy Chadwick’s contribution, apart from designing the Lancaster, which is no mean feat anyway was absolutely critical to the whole raid. My father realized this and he wrote very warmly to Chadwick to thank him for the effort he made in altering the bomb bay of the Lancaster. Without which alteration the bomb couldn’t be carried and therefore no raid. That was never, I don’t think, I know he didn’t think that Chadwick had had enough honour and, and fame for, for what he did. And I certainly don’t think he did. I mean, when does he ever get mentioned? And yet without him there would not have been a raid, which my father knew and he, and he expressed his gratitude and admiration. The whole of that alteration was done on twenty Lancasters, I think in under three weeks or something. I mean, amazing. Well having altered the Lancaster, poor old Lancaster’s undercarriage to carry the upkeep. The bouncing bomb. Then of course my father designed the earthquake bombs — Tallboy and Grand Slam. A Tallboy is pretty big. A Grand Slam is even bigger and the Lancaster had to have her undercarriage altered again. Her bomb bays. In fact, in the Grand Slam, I think I’m right, that the bomb bay couldn’t actually be used. It had to be sort of tied up with rope. Not quite but when it came to Grand Slam, twenty two thousand pound of bomb underneath the Lancaster’s belly Roy Chadwick had to remove the bomb doors completely and attach the Grand Slam under her belly by means of chains. I mean, that was no mean alteration but it worked. And my father is remembered, mainly I suppose, for the bouncing bomb for the dams’ raid. For the engineer’s way of stopping the war which is wonderful. I don’t complain about that at all but he, it is not, he was not a man of war. He was a man of peace. He was brought up to believe very very firmly in the benefits of the society in which he lived. The culture in which he lived. The background against which he lived. And he thought it was his duty, indeed the duty of every man and woman to fight for, to protect this culture. That’s why he did it. Not because he was a man of war. He was not. Of course, you have big wars to fight and you fight them but in the mean, in between the wars he did develop the most beautiful airship, and successful, which I don’t, I don’t think people should forget. The R100. Not the R101. That’s a very interesting story that but not to be told here. But it was from the building of the R100 that he devised the geodetic structure for making curved and strong and lightweight bodies. Heavier than aircraft. That went straight into the Wellington, the Wellesley and would finally have been used in the Windsor which actually it was not used in the, in the war. I don’t think it every reached the bombing stage. So, it was really design that he was so interested in, I think. Apart from defending his family and country. Nation and belief. It was always the design. The best design that he was aiming at. After the war, in fact, before the war ended he’d moved on in his mind to civil aviation and the benefit for keeping together the Commonwealth as it, by then was. By the ability to fly all around the world without having to put down to take on whatever supplies were needed. Because the intervening lands might not be so welcoming. But this of course involved high speed which involves supersonic flight. Supersonic flight, to be achieved successfully as I have always understood it is it requires a different aeroplane. A different shape of the wings of the aeroplane. They should fold back so that it can dart through the, through the upper atmosphere without having these wings out at right angles. So, from that he started to design what was originally called the Wild Goose. In 1948 he started, well he was thinking of it before the war ended. And that is, he wrote some wonderful memoirs of that. That time. Writing actually in letters to my mother. He never wrote without having a purpose if you see what I mean. If somebody was going to read it. He never sent the letters but there they all are. First of all at Thurley old aerodrome in Bedfordshire and then down to Predannack in Cornwall. On the Lizard. And there Wild Goose turned into the Swallow which was a very beautiful aircraft with the swept back wings in high powered flight. But you have to have them in the normal position to take off in the ordinary atmosphere. So that’s the problem. He, the Swallow got to the point at which it could have had trial runs with a, with a test pilot. And his good old friend Mutt Summers and others would have been willing to try to fly the Swallow. But after the disaster, to my father’s mind, indeed quite true, of the deaths of so many brave young men in the dams’ raid he swore that never again would he put another man’s life in danger. He would not have a test pilot. So, and as everybody knows the government wouldn’t support the development any further and so as he sadly said, we sold it to America. What Boeing did with it I can’t remember. But anyway, my father sadly said as I also remember they spoiled it by putting a tail on it. There was a plan. He devised a design for a bridge to go, I think it was underwater. An underwater bridge over the Messina Straits between Italy and Sicily. I don’t quite know what happened to that design but I don’t think it ever got made. Which was a pity because it would have been, you know, rather interesting. He, he designed racing skiffs for boys clubs. That was his love. His love of the water and everything to do with the sea. So, when somebody asked him to do that he did it. He designed at Brooklands where he was working of course for, by this time it was BAC not Vickers Armstrong’s and the stratosphere chamber is absolutely huge. I have, in fact, I it was opened, it was redone by English heritage and opened again about a year ago. And it is there by the, by where he had his research and development department. And in it you could test anything that you wanted to have, wanted to be tested under extreme circumstances. For example, de-icing of trawlers and indeed de-icing of aeroplane structures too in very high altitudes. And there are wonderful photographs of trawlers with, in the stratosphere chamber, ice dripping off their rigging and all this and whatever. It’s amazing. That was his design and there it still is. So that, that was another thing that was quite important. While the Swallow was being developed and perfected in Predannack in Cornwall Leonard Cheshire joined Barnes Wallis again there. I think this is not very often remembered that that was a point at which the two worked together again and my father admired Cheshire very much indeed. I expect Cheshire admired him but that I don’t know because he was very interested in Cheshire’s work for the disabled, the sick and the needy and was a great supporter of the Cheshire homes. Always. And that’s not very often, I think, remembered. On that same line my father devised, he became the first president of the Bath Medical Engineering Institute and he, because he had designed lightweight calipers for children. You know, he had seen children hobbling about with great hefty things on, calipers on their legs and he designed lightweight calipers. And thus, he became the President of Bath Medical Engineering Institute which was a position which he held for quite some years. I’ve often wondered what it was that made him even think of, you know, sort of a bit far from bombs and flying at supersonic speeds. But looking back over his life his father, who was a doctor, got polio myelitis in 1893. And my father was then six and I mean, it was a pretty, it was a crisis for the family because of course at that stage there was no cure. He just was laid flat for six months. Money was scarce and so on. And in the end my grandfather had an enormous metal caliper down his leg. And I remember, as a child we used to wonder what on earth was under his trouser leg because it had this very sort of rigid angle at the knee and when he wanted to bend his leg he had to bend down and press the metal and it made a click and we were fascinated. But I suspect the trouble the family went through then stuck in Barnes’s mind for the rest of his life. One of the outcomes of the raid on the dams was that precision bombing became a possibility which it had not been before. You did not have to have carpet bombing once you had got a squadron with the skill and aptitude of 617. And they were amazing. You could actually precision bomb without damaging vast numbers of ordinary civilians. This was very important. My father had, had it in mind and the Tallboy and Grand Slam were on his drawing board but of course they couldn’t be used without the efficiency and skill and bravery of 617. So that the two were totally, totally linked. The development of the skill and competence of the squadron and the skill of the designer. One outcome of the dams’ raid, the success of the dams’ raid which is not often mentioned I think is the vital importance of precision bombing which 617 Squadron achieved. Previously, while of course there were many targets that would have benefited us greatly if we could have smashed couldn’t be broken by ordinary sized bombs and dropped from a great height. To do, to smash the really heavy armaments construction places in France and North Europe you needed things like the Tallboy and the Grand Slam. The earthquake bombs which my father had certainly begun to design. I don’t know how far he’d got by the time the dams’ raid was achieved but of course they, they were not any use without the capability for precision bombing which 617 had now achieved. Once the Air Ministry, War Ministry had realized this, that there was this ability to deliver a weapon. They did say to my father, you know, finish designing the earthquake which he then went and proceeded to do. And it was, I mean that the, the development of the precision bombing capability is not always, I think, given the merit that it should have been given. Those men were extremely skilled. Without their ability and of course the bomb. The tools to go to be used. The bombs. The earthquake bombs. The Tirpitz would not have been sunk. The first target to be hit by an earthquake bomb was the Saumur Tunnel. That was the Tallboy. Tallboy then went on to crack the V1 bomb launch sights. I remember those. They were famous. They came over. They made a droning noise. When you heard the droning noise you just were pretty near it, pretty careful to listen. If the droning noise stopped you were in trouble. Get under the kitchen table or something of the sort. But if the droning noise went on you were alright. It was somebody else. That was the V1s. All seen from a child’s point of view. And the other thing, the next, the next big, I think the most famous Tallboy success was where the V2 rocket was going to be. Rocket was going to be launched from. The V2 rocket was going to be launched from Northern France, a place called Wizernes, and it was from some sort of a launch. It was undercover. Under a great flat concrete surface of a depth which would be quite impossible for ordinary bombs to reach and which no amount of scatter bombing could possibly destroy. But we still have one of the 617 old boys. If I can call them that. John Bell. Who launched from, who launched a Tallboy. I don’t remember which plane. Which plane it was dropped from but —
AP: He dropped it from a Lancaster.
MSR: Oh, I know it was a Lancaster.
AP: Oh sorry.
MSR: I meant the, oh goodness me.
AP: I think it was KCA.
MSR: Was it? Oh, I’d better put that in it case it’s wrong.
AP: We’ll just say sorry about that. We’ll just keep talking. He was a bomb aimer.
MSR: Yeah.
AP: And he was the one who released that Tallboy.
MSR: Yes.
AP: On the dome.
MSR: Yes. The only way to destroy that dome was by an earthquake bomb. And John Bell, who is still with us who was the bomb aimer on the Lancaster that went over this Wizernes rocket pen and his bomb dropped on the, on this concrete dome. Lord knows how much concrete was piled in there but anyway the Tallboy destroyed it and the V2 rocket didn’t have a chance.
AP: So, they were never able to launch it.
MSR: No.
AP: Because it was in a chalk quarry, this is the interesting geology bit, it was in a chalk quarry and the dome was, there was a whole load of rockets underneath it. John’s bomb didn’t hit the dome. It just hit the outside of the dome and because it was chalk the earthquake shockwave crumbled the chalk.
MSR: Yeah. Yeah. This rocket, V2 rocket pen was actually constructed within a chalk quarry. A quarry for mining chalk and while my father had always said that if you could get a bomb into the, down into the earth deep enough it didn’t have to be actually on the spot because the earthquake effect would destroy the target that you were aiming at. I remember him saying that if it would, if water could increase the strength of an explosion at thirty feet then if you could only get a bomb down in the earth at sufficient depth the same sort of earthquake effect would, would work. And it did. And because it was in this chalk quarry the chalk all shook and crumbled and the whole thing collapsed. But it was the earthquake effect. Not having gone straight down through the concrete surface. But that was what my father had predicted would happen. He would get a bomb deep enough into the earth which the Tallboy did and the Grand Slam even more.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Mary Stopes-Roe
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Panton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-01
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AStopesRoeM150601
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Discusses her father’s designs work and remembers both skipping stones on a river during holidays with her father and catapulting marbles over a washtub in their garden. She goes on to discuss the Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation, the bouncing bomb and the Tall boy and Grand Slam bombs. She talks about the importance of Roy Chadwick and the Lancaster, and her father’s other designs that included the R100 airship, the geodetic structure of the Wellington, and designs for civil aircraft the Wild Goose and the Swallow.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Format
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00:23:12 audio recording
Contributor
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Julie Williams
617 Squadron
aircrew
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing of the Saumur tunnel (8/9 June 1944)
bouncing bomb
Chadwick, Roy (1893-1947)
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
childhood in wartime
Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation (16–17 May 1943)
Grand Slam
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Tallboy
Tirpitz
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1176/11745/AValentineM150724.2.mp3
a2356fb69fdfd997eb1f470214b096cb
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Valentine, Murray
M Valentine
Murray Vagnolini
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history with Murray Valentine. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 61 Squadron and 617 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Valentine, M
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Andrew Panton, the interviewee is Murray Valentine. The interview is taking place at The Office Bar in Seaford, and the date of the interview is the 31st of July 2015. What were your duties and responsibilities as the wireless op?
MV: Well, receiving more than transmitting because transmitting made you eligible to be fired at. You had headquarter main line broadcast made about every quarter of an hour which told you what you were doing, and gave you the exact conditions, the weather, and you got home. That broadcast, as I say, every quarter of an hour. Also, of course your main thing was if you were shot down and, in the water, you had all facilities for transmitting and making yourself available and position at sea in a dingy. Fortunately, I had no occasion for any of these things, but we did have one occasion when we had a fin shot off by a night fighter and we- There again did not have to make an emergency, emergency transmission. So, with all the weather reports and positionings sent to us from the mainland, you had to pick them up every quarter of an hour and pass them to the captain, so the rest of the crew knew where we were.
AP: Were there any other duties that you were expected to do as the wireless op? Anything else you did in the aircraft?
MV: Well, are you referring to the-
AP: The Lancaster.
MV: Yes, when we dropped the ten tonner or the twelve-thousand pounder, winding in the retaining arms. If we had the Lancaster that did not have a- bomb doors that closed, you just made sure the arms were retracted and the aircraft was ready to return home. Once I was standing above the bomb when- Just before the bomb was released and the next thing, I was raised up and my head touched the ceiling of the Lancaster [chuckles], the weight of the aircraft releasing the weight of the bomb, which caused some significant distress to most of the crew, but particularly myself because I was standing there, about to open the bomb doors above the bomb as it went.
AP: How did the aircraft feel on take-off? Was it any different with that huge bomb?
MV: No, it- The pilots used to- Mentioned the fact that it was quite a thing to get off the ground with a heavy weight on it. You could feel the air- The engine straining and the aircraft straining to get off the ground but, in actual fact in the air, as far as the aircraft's movements and its aptitude, was just about the same. Well, I would say it was just like the twelve-thousand pounder, you took post when the bomb aimer went forward, or he was already forward saying, ‘We’re coming up to the bombing run’, and he would say- Give the pilot orders, ‘Left, left, right, right, steady, bomb gone’, and as it went you suddenly found yourself in mid-air going up to the ceiling as you returned of course you made an effort to get the grab things in [unclear] so that you get back to your, get back to your radio set because time was- Show, you’ve- have a broadcast coming from home would be almost due because you’d been out of your seat for quarter of an hour almost. And then, eventually you went to operational training unit, Wellingtons, where one day a pilot came up to me and said, ‘Are you- Have you got a crew?’, I said, ‘No, sir’, ‘cause I was flight sergeant then, he said, ‘Would you like to join me?’, which I said, ‘Yes’, and then we went from there to a, continued flying there for about three months on Wellingtons and then we left there and went to Stirlings, then we finished up with Lancaster finishing school for a fortnight and then to a squadron.
AP: And that- Was that 61 Squadron? Was that 6-
MV: In those days it was. Skellingthorpe, just outside of Lincoln. I’ve been there and seen them, they’ve got some recollection of it all but not much, but it was a station that did heavy bombing, from Bomber Command. All those stations there, Skellingthorpe, and two others- three round there, just outside of Lincoln.
AP: Was the weather ever foggy? Did you ever have to land with FIDO or any of those DRAM systems?
MV: We’d be diverted back home, that’s why it was important to get your quarter of an hour message ‘cause you might be diverted. There might be clamping[?] at Woodhall Spa and, or Skellingthorpe, and you would land away, probably only for one night, two nights, for a dance in the town, jolly good.
AP: And- But was that when the weather was bad at Woodhall Spa, you’d land somewhere else?
MV: Oh yes. You were diverted. Yes, you were diverted and you came back to the pilot, ‘Pilot, sir we’ve just had a- radio operator to pilot, we’ve just had a diversion’, ‘Alright thank you, navigator to pilot, he’s aware you’ve got the steer[?], we’re going to land at so-and-so’. All very- Everything is that you’re all very trained.
AP: Very, very, very trained, and the last point I wanted to ask is joining 617 Squadron, could you say a little bit about that transfer from 61 Squadron to 617, how it happened?
MV: Well, my pilot decide he wasn’t going home ‘cause he’d had a Dear John from his fiancé of three years, and I had just been commissioned so things were altering very much for me, having become an officer, and I came- We diverted back home, that's why it was important to get your quarter of an hour message ‘cause you might be diverted. There might be clamping at Woodhall Spa and- Or Skellingthorpe and you would land away, probably only for one night, two nights, for a dance in the town, jolly good.
AP: Transfer from 61 Squadron to 617, how it happened?
MV: Well, my pilot decide he wasn’t going home ‘cause he’d had a Dear John from his fiancé of three years, and I had just been commissioned so things were altering very much for me, having become an officer, and I came- We came back off leave and reported to the, to the old Skellingthorpe and we were taken by coach to Woodhall Spa, which was quite amazing to me, all very different. However, the fact what we were going to do operationally was also going to be very very interesting.
AP: What were the briefings like? Can you remember anything about the briefings that you had with 617? Targets and-
MV: Well, any, any target you went into, you, you tried to find out from your ground crew what the bomb load was, what the petrol load was and when you went to the- You had your, your briefing on radio, then you went into general briefing and they had, they had a blackboard and the briefing officer would stand up and say, ‘Gentlemen, it’s going to be a long night. Hamburg.’ ‘Woah’, you’d hear. Or, ‘It’s just to the French coast’, but whatever happens anywhere in Germany was always a heavy task because, you had- You were fired at all the way from the French coast into Germany and then when you got to Germany you really got the firing.
AP: And once you’d had to briefing, what happened between then and getting on the aircraft?
MV: Well, you’re all thoroughly briefed and highly secure, so you were just taken to coaches outside or- I think they were coaches, and driven out to your aircraft and boarded the aircraft and the pilot would then taxi as ordered on intercom, from flight control.
AP: Was anybody at the caravan waving you off or?
MV: No, not till you came round. You were called forward, and this was done by bright aldis lamps.
AP: So, like green, green?
MV: Yes, and as you’d- You’d probably in line taxi round, came round, and the pilot would say nothing more than, ‘B Baker taking, coming forward now,’ [unclear].
AP: What’s it like when he put full throttle back and the thing went down the runway?
MV: Quite exciting really because the- you’ve got a bomb load on, it’s entirely different to going on a, a flying training trip, the pilot was like, ‘Right, wireless operator, gunner one, gunner two, navigator, bomb aimer, that’s it, right here we go then’. He always used to do that my pilot, ‘Here we go then’. You feel the brakes go on, power of the engines revving and then the brakes let off and forward you go. ‘Here we go’.
AP: Was that then, standard Merlin?
MV: Yes, oh yes, four of those, even with the brakes on and the pilot would put forward his own feeling that the engineer would hold his hands to feel and the pilot would then let the handbrake off and away we go, ‘Right gentlemen, say cheerio to everybody, here we go’, our pilot used to say. ‘Here we go’.
AP: How long did it used to take to get up to your operating?
MV: Oh, I don’t know, probably- we- to get- we used to get to operational height before we really set course. So, we’d be over the- Near the airfield for an hour, to get- Oh yes circling, to get at [unclear] to get [unclear] and this, then the navigator said, ‘Are you ready? Now set 020’, or whatever it was and he said, ‘Right, pilot to navigator, on course’.
AP: And, did you eat or drink anything on those trips? They were long trips, weren’t they?
MV: Not really, we did, we did have something, I can’t remember what it was [chuckles], but we did have a thermos flask, all this of course was in case you happened to ditch, bail out, you see. If it was- It was- If they said, the raid is five hours, six hours, the longest we did was to Königsberg, East Prussia, ten hours twenty-five. Long trip.
AP: And was it cold?
MV: Not really, no. The heating used to be down by the radio operator, the heating, although people used to wear a certain amount but you didn’t wear the- Towards the end of the war we weren’t wearing the flying clothing they showed in the old days. Reliable but not particularly comfortable, was the Wellington. It was a geodetic construction with a cloth over outside. But it’s interesting to see the bomber command memorial, I haven’t seen it, opposite the RAF club in Piccadilly. It’s got geodetic construction across the ceiling, and who invented the geodetic construction? Barnes Wallis. They said- Many people have flown in Wellington and Halifaxes and it twisted and- but it didn’t fall to pieces, the geodetic construction. But I met him when we were dropping the Grand Slam for some reason (I wasn’t all that younger than the others) I was brought forward and introduced to him, and he said, ‘Take it easy son’, I [chuckles] ‘We have to take it easy Mr Wallis’, and we had a bit of a chat and that’s it. Then I, about twenty years later, I was at Brampton- Yes, RAF Brampton, and he was there as a guest of honour for the squadron, squadron reunion, and I mentioned I had met him before and I'd like to meet him again, and I was brought forward and I said, ‘Hello Mr Wallis, you won’t remember me, I met you when we were dropping the Grand Slam.’ ‘Oh but I do remember you’, and I've told that to his daughter, and I told it to his son, and his daughter said, ‘Course dad would, he wouldn’t forget anything on- In principle’. If the Lancaster was suddenly- I went to see one at- After the war, at the Battle of Britain memorial flight and it- We went to see- They have a special place to show the Lancasters, just got one left now, where it landed, and I went there with my father-in-law and he said, ‘Murray you’ve got tears in your eyes’, and of course, yes, you spent a lot of time in- Yes it could be hot, it could be cold and I- On occasions I'd look back, I was going on operation in- Take my battle dress off and have a- Myself in shirt sleeves regardless of the outcome, if I had to leave the aircraft suddenly. One was there doing a job and that was it.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Murray Valentine
Creator
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Andrew Panton
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-24
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AValentineM150724
Conforms To
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Pending review
Format
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00:17:25 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Murray Valentine was a wireless operator with 61 Squadron and 617 Squadron. He describes his duties as well as his job on board the Lancasters on bombing operations. He recalls going to an operational training unit and flying Wellingtons for three months before going on to Stirlings. His longest operation was to Königsberg, East Prussia which took over ten hours. He recalls his pilot always said, ‘Here we go,’ as they embarked on their operations. Towards the end of the war, he met Barnes Wallis whilst dropping the Grand Slam. Twenty years later, he met Barnes Wallis again at RAF Brampton.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Tilly Foster
Steph Jackson
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
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1945
61 Squadron
617 Squadron
aircrew
Grand Slam
Lancaster
military service conditions
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
training
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/357/5519/PGrimesS1502.2.jpg
2f8c2b7688ba7d1fbece6737ceb4d3a8
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/357/5519/AGrimesS151121.2.mp3
3cd700983bd130668fad69444d64890e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Grimes, Syd
Syd Grimes
S V Grimes
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with Pilot Officer Sydney Grimes (173865, 1271597 Royal Air Force) a photograph, and his logbook. After training as a wireless operator/ air gunner he completed a tour on 106 Squadron at RAF Syerston. After a period as an instructor he joined 617 Squadron for his second tour where he took part in the attacks on the Tirpitz.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Syd Grimes and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-11-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Grimes, SV
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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SJ: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is myself Sue Johnstone and the interviewee is Sid Grimes. The interview is taking place at Mr Grimes’ home in Mildenhall in Suffolk on the 21st of November 2015.
AG: I was born in a little village called Great Wakering near Southend on Sea, five miles from Southend on Sea and I lived there until I joined the Air Force. I was educated at the village school and also for part of the time at Southend Municipal College. When war broke out I was seventeen and eh my father was a Thames bargeman. I didn’t particularly want to go in the Navy although he would have preferred me to. My my brother went in the Navy, I didn’t want to go in the Army and I thought if I go in the Air Force and volunteered as a wireless operator. At that time I was working for EK Cole Ltd,Echo Radio and I thought if I knew something about the technology of radio I would be doing a more interesting job than as a clerk. So I joined the Air Force. I wasn’t accepted for training immediately because there was a real backlog of training. But I volunteered for wireless operator aircrew and I was called up in 1940. I trained at Blackpool, Yatesbury, Eventon,Madeley and all sorts of places as wireless operator. Eventually I ended up as a sergeant wireless operator at Cottesmore in Rutland. ‘Is this alright?’
SJ: This is absolutely fine, this is fantastic.
AG: Eh, I then met my first pilot a man called Stevens, a Welshman always known as Steve eh and the four others of the crew, so. And eh we trained on Wellingtons until he was eh, he was,treated as a bomber pilot then. We then moved to a conversion unit where we flew Manchesters and Lancasters. Having passed out then we went to a place called Syerston near Newark. Now this 106 Squadron was Guy Gibsons’ Squadron, but he must have known that I was coming because he left the two days before. [laughs] No I don’t know if it was two days but a few days before. So I joined 617 Squadron [think he meant 106] and by that time we had picked up a mid upper gunner and a flight engineer, to the Wellington crew so we were now seven. And I did a tour with 106 Squadron until September 1943. Now that was almost entirely the Battle of the Ruhr. but it did include places like Hamburg and Berlin, one or two other places just outside the Ruhr. So having completed a tour of operations which was a real dodgy period. We had some very heavy losses in the Battle of the Ruhr. In fact my crew was only the second one to finish a tour while I was there. And a lot of people came and went fairly quickly so. I do not know how many losses 617, 106 Squadron had in that period. But we were only the second one to finish. I then went to a place called Balderton just outside Newark which was eh, the residue of the Five Lancaster Finishing School, Five Group Lancaster Finishing School. And eh an interesting thing happened to me there because we hadn’t got any pupils to train then, they were coming in a couple of weeks time and we were getting the place ready. A wing commander arrived, Wing Commander Leonard Cheshire and eh he had been operating in Four Group up in Yorkshire on Halifax’s. And when he came to take over 617 Squadron the AOC said, ‘you had better go and learn to fly a Lancaster.’ So he eh hummed and had and said. ‘Well I have been flying Halifaxs for two years.’ But he said ‘No you go and learn it.’ So he came, he hadn’t got a clue so I went with him and four others. And we became, and I am very proud to tell you, I have in my log book. Four times I flew with him while he learnt to fly a Lancaster. [laugh]. I then went from there to the permanent base for Five Lancaster School of eh, Lancaster Group, School at Syerston again. And I stayed there instructing until I done a foolish thing. I was engaged to be married and I saw in orders that there was a course for RT speech unit, at Stanmore. And I thought if I went to Stanmore, Iris was nursing at Leightonstone, Whipps Cross Hospital, Leightonstone. I would undoubtedly get a couple of days before I reported back. So I did this RT speech course, but I was quite good at it actually and of the six of us I got chosen to form this RT speech unit.
SJ: Brilliant.
AG: At Scampton, so I went there and very foolishly I had to do the same lecture four times a day seven days a week.
SJ: How’s that?
AG: And I met a man called Barney Gumbley, a New Zealander and we sat chat. Chatting in the mess one day and he said. ‘I am going back on ops, are you interested?’ I said. ‘Can we go tomorrow?’ [laugh]. So he said. ‘Well I have got an interview for Pathfinders and an interview for 617 have you any preference?’ I said was, Pathfinders was Eight Group and eh I quite like Five Group, I like the people in it. So I said ‘I’d rather go to 617.’ He said ‘It is a good job you said that, for the rest of us want to go there too.’ [laugh]. Anyway about ten days later I got a phone call to say. ‘There is a van picking you up at nine o’clock tomorrow morning.’ I said. ‘Where are we going?’ He said. ‘We are going to Woodhall Spa to joing 617 Squadron.’ So of I went in this van and eh the mess, the Officers Mess, was eh ‘oh dear, oh dear’ I can’t think of it.
SJ: What Woodhall Spa?
AG: At Woodhall Spa, it was the Officers Mess eh.
SJ: Was it the Petwood?
AG: Petwood.
SJ: Petwood Hotel.
AG: Petwood hotel and eh it dropped me there and I reported at the desk which had, [unclear] which had got a WAAF on it. And she said ‘Oh yes we’ve got a room for you.’ So of I went to this room, Barney Gumley was told I was here but he was up at the flight which was about a mile and a half away. He came down and introduced me to the rest of the crew, but no one thought about booking me in.[laugh]. And I did the two ops to the Tirpitz at Tromso before they suddenly realised I wasn’t on the squadron. [laugh] By that time I had done two trips.
SJ: Then they checked you in.
AG: They checked me in they thought I had better be legitimate. So I, I was with 617 from the September ’44 through ‘til April 1945. We had been flying the Barnes Wallis Tall Boy bomb which was 12000 pounds. And then he came up with a much bigger invention, the Grand Slam which was 22000 pounds. In order to accommodate the big bomb they had to take the bomb doors off, and they took the mid upper turret off, and they took all the armour plating out. They really did a modified Lancaster which only took a crew of five. Took all the wireless equipment out except for a VHF transmitter,RT. So I was surplus so I said to the flight commander. ‘ I have only got three more trips to do can I fly in the astrodome as a fighter observer or something like that?’ He said. ‘Under no circumstances, we are trying to find reasons for loosing weight.’ And he said. ‘You want to go and fly.’ He wouldn’t let me and the crew got shot down on the very next trip. So they got hit by and anti aircraft shell on the port wing and it shot it completely away. So they were on the bombing run at that time which was the dicey part of the trip. Because eh, the special bomb sight that we had, we had to fly straight and level. It was gyroscopically controlled, so you had to fly very accurately with height, speed and all the outside temperatures. And all that kind of thing which you fed in to this computer. So they was, the squadron flew in what was called a gaggle. A geese gaggle you know? The way that they fly in the sky.
SJ: A formation.
AG: A formation, and that gaggle when you were stepped sideways and up and down in a very large box. It was designed so that the whole squadron, twenty of us could bomb without impeding each other, all on the same bombing run. You were actually converging you see, so all the bombs had gone before you actually hit each other. It was a very clever little devise and this anti aircraft shell shot their port wing off so that it. It just spiralled in [unclear], and it was spiralling so quickly, if anybody was still alive in the aircraft eh they couldn’t have got out anyway. And of course the bomb went off as soon as it hit the ground. Because as they were on the bombing run the bomb aimer had already fused it.
SJ: Eh, you don’t remember which aircraft it was?
AG: Yes it is in, I flew with them. ‘Just sit down my dear.’ You can put it off for a bit.
SJ: I was going to pause it for a second.
AG: YZL, PD117 The number of the aircraft was PD117.[pause]
SJ: That looks like a well looked through log book.
AG: Just to prove Wing Commander Cheshire.
SJ: Yes that’s where he had gone to. That is local flying that was part of his training. [laugh]
AG: That’s right, I always say that he was my pupil.
SJ: [laugh] that’s brilliant. So what happened next, you were moved to 617 you were there for a six months.
AG: Yes and I done seventeen trips.
SJ: Seventeen trips.
AG: I got three more to do.[pause] ‘I will just have a cough sweet.’
SJ: That is no problem, that’s fine.
AG: [pause while uwrapping sweet] ‘Will you stay for some lunch?’
SJ: Oh, might do if that’s all right, yeah.
AG: I have got a beef casserole.
SJ: Lovely, that sounds fantastic.
AG: Right, I will heat it up in a minute.
SJ: [Laughs]
AG: ‘Sorry, I was, what was I saying —.
SJ: You were saying about 617 Squadron when you left.
AG: Yes I went to 9 Squadron who was the other squadron that had the tallboys, they didn’t have the grand slam, so that they still needed wireless operators. So I went over to 9 Squadron about three weeks before the end of the war. After we, I then had to make a decision, I was asked did I want to go to the far east against Japan. By that time I was married.
SJ: When did you get married?
AG: I got married the month before I joined 617, Iris never knew I had volunteered to go back.
SJ: Did you ever tell her.
AG: I have since, she was indignant. [laugh]. But I always said she was in a more dangerous situation as a nurse in Whipps Cross Hospital near the docks.
SJ: Was she always a nurse then?
AG: I didn’t say how I met her, did I?
SJ: You didn’t no.
AG: Can I digress?
SJ: Yes that will be fantastic to know.
AG: She was born in Woodford. But before the war they moved down to a little village called Rochford just outside Southend. And she wanted to be a nurse but they wouldn’t take her until she was seventeen. So she came to Echo as a copy typist. I was one of the senior, not senior clerks but I was, I was fairly well up. I had been there three years. And I met her and I liked the look of her and so after I went in the Air Force I kept in touch with her. And you know, I’d spent about no more than about ten days in her company, up to the time we got married. Because when I came on leave we always went to see a London show but that was about the only time we could get of. ’Forgive me sucking the sweet.’
SJ: Oh no it’s fine, not to worry.
AG: And that is how I met her. So I decided I didn’t want to go to the Far East I thought that having done about forty six trips, I didn’t , the neck had gone out too far. So I got posted to 50 Squadron at a place called Sturgate which was up near, in North Lincolnshire. And we were then flying; first of all we were flying prisoners of war from Brussels to England, in the Lancasters. We used to take, I think it was twenty or twenty four depending on what kit they got in the Lancaster fuselage sitting on the floor But they didn’t mind that as long as they were coming to England. After we got all the POWs back we then started bringing people back from leave from Italy. And we used to fly to Naples and pick up about twenty Air Force or Army people at a place call Pernicano, which is just outside Naples. Eh after a time they decided that was going to stop because shipping was available to bring them back in larger quantities anyway. And the Mediterranean was open so they stopped doing it. So I then got posted to do a code and cipher course down at a place called Compton Bassett near Calne in Wiltshire. And having passed that course I got posted to Germany ostensibly to be the CO of a small mobile signals unit. Which was one officer, one sergeant, one corporal and about ten men. When I got there I was told it was based at a place called Stade[?] between Cookshaven and Haverg. So I arrived at Stade[?] and the CO said. ‘Oh I am glad to see you’ he said. ‘I lost my adjutant about two weeks ago you are my new adjutant.’ I said. ‘No I have a mobile signals regiment.’ He said. ‘No I closed that down yesterday and you are my new adjutant.’ But I said. ‘I know something about flying but I know nothing about anything else.’ He said. ‘I’ll teach you.’[laugh] and he became a very good friend of mine. We did all sorts of things together, we got up very early in the morning sometimes at dawn and went and shoot deer. Quite unofficial we hadn’t got a license from the Military Government or anything and it ended up in a very humorous story. We had this, there weren’t very many of us, these base signals on your radar unit, refurbished these units to be sent round to the aerodromes and various places including Berlin. So there were only about fifteen of us I suppose. And we were having dinner or preparing to have dinner one night and we had got deer for dinner. This happened, Military Government people and ourselves we didn’t mingle sociably ‘cause there was nothing else. So they arrived about four o’clock and didn’t look like moving. So the CO said to me ‘What do we do?’ I said ‘Well as they are the guests of our mess this evening you had better invite them to dinner. And as they are our guests they won’t be able to do anything about it.’ So they sat down to dinner with us and ate deer. And they did let us know that they were aware of it. I think they had been told off, they had a [unclear] [laugh]. Well that, I ended up demobilised in August 1946 and I got reinstatement rights if I went back to Echo, but I was offered a short service commission of two years. But if I had taken that it would have meant in all probability the Air Force would have been reducing in size so much that I would have then been demobilised. And I wouldn’t have had reinstatement rights, having been in what was the regular Air Force for two years. So eh I went back to Echo. And so as I say I didn’t know anything about being an adjutant and certainly nothing about earning my living in civvy street. But I was fortunate, the man who interviewed me was the deputy chief accountant of EK Cole Ltd. And he knew because I had told him that I was keen on cricket because he was interviewing me in depth. He said ‘That’s a good thing I am a life member of Lancashire.’ So he took me on his staff and he taught me accountancy. I did take a correspondence course was meeker compared with what he told me. So I was never able to be a chartered accountant because I didn’t take articles. I was earning my living, by that time I was increasing my family.
SJ: How many children have you got?
AG: I’ve got three, two of them became nurses and one, the boy went into insurance.
SJ: You had two girls and a boy.
AG: I am proud of them all.
SJ: Oh yeah I don’t blame you.
AG: So I was in the deputy chief accountants department. Then he got promoted to be the chief accountant and then he became promoted to eh; financial secretary and accountant to a number of subsidiaries. So as he went up my situation went up with him.
SJ: You went up as well, did you enjoy that?
AG: I couldn’t have been an accountant in a professional office because that would have been dull. That would have been checking, checking, checking, checking. What I liked about being in industry, I was always in a place that was making things and you could go there and see it all happening. It was accountancy, it was very important accountancy, but eh —.
SJ: Very different from your RAF days though?
AG: Yes very much so. I was an active member of the 617 Squadron Association and we went to a number of reunions in Canada, Australia, New Zealand eh France as a unit, we’ve gone and made friends wherever we went. I haven’t been to the last couple number of places because Iris became, eh unreliable, she was unsteady. I couldn’t take her onto aircraft and coaches and things like that. She came to, she came to Australia and New Zealand and to Canada but the —, When we went to France and Germany and the Netherlands we went by coach and ferry, she hates flying.
SJ: [laughs]
AG: ‘Now where have I got to?’ Eventually we got taken over, first by Pye from Cambridge and then Phillips who are Dutch of course. But the British office was at Croydon and eh I became the financial accountant, financial director in a number of subsidiaries around the group. But I ended up, I always wanted to be somewhere near Southend because my parents were still alive. And I owed a lot to my parents, I didn’t want to move right out of their orbit. And I then went to Canvey Island to a components factory. First of all as the financial director and then as the managing director. And from there I went back to Southend as the eh; managing director of Echo Instruments which made instrumentation for industry. Then I retired.
SJ: How long have you been retired now?
AG: I retired when I was, I retired finally when I was sixty three. I first retired at sixty one when I left Canvey. And I only had been retired for about three months when my boss at Cambridge rang me up and said. ‘I am in trouble, can you help me?’ I said. ‘Well, help you in what sense?’ He said. ‘Can you come back and do a job looking after a subsidiary until I find a, a permanent managing director?’ So I did and I stayed two years.
SJ: [laugh] Why not?
AG: But it was a good period for me because I was drawing full pension and then I was drawing full salary so it made a nest egg for me when I did retire.
SJ: So it was worth it then?
AG: Yes; well I stayed in Shoeburyness just outside Southend until twelve years ago. But one of my daughters lived in West Row which is just to the West of Milden Hall and another one lived in Barton Mills.
SJ: I was going to ask why you moved up this way?
AG: Well my son was in Kent and the journey from Shoeburyness up to here was one hundred and ten miles. And when I got to eighty I decided that that was too far. So we moved up here to a place just the other side of Mildenhall, Brickcone Hall[?] and eh, it was too large but we loved it. And then Iris had trouble keeping her balance, damaged her hip. So I decided we had to be on the same floor so we moved here. Which was a retirement bungalow which suited us down to the ground.
SJ: And it is a lovely complex, it really is nice.
AG: It is, I sit here and we have mallard ducks and swans on the river and I watch them and they come and look at me and squawk.
SJ: [laugh] And you sit and look at them?
AG: I try, I do, if Iris was here with me I’d love it. But she is only two miles away.
SJ: That is not far. How long has she been in the care home?
AG: Since January, so eleven months. But she is happy there and she is safe. You see I had her home here at first after she came out of hospital eh, but I couldn’t look after her during the day and the night. And I was getting totally exhausted because every time she moved I woke up. So we decided that my savings would go to the wall and I would put her in the care home. And she is in a lovely little care home. She is well cared for and she is safe, so —.
SJ: Does she like it there?
AG: At first she missed us all because she saw the family every day. Well now I go in about five days out of the seven and the two girls go once. Because Rosalind is a practice nurse in Bury so ,
SJ: That is not far away?
AG: No. And she is married to a Canadian who eh and they go backwards and forwards. I think they have a permanent passage booked on aircraft [laugh]. And eh Jill has got four sons and five grandsons, my great grandsons, so we are largely together. And my son comes up —.
SJ: He is the link end.
AG: Yes. He comes up for a week about every six weeks, because he has retired now.
SJ: Has he got any family?
AG: No; he married a lady who was seven years older than him and it never happened, so —.
SJ: That is quite a big family you got then, grandkids and great grandkids.
AG: Yes, I am a very lucky man. Having survived the war I look round and think, ‘This family wouldn’t have survived if I had bought it.’
SJ: I know, yeah.
AG: Well they might have done, Iris might have married someone else, but.
SJ: It would have been different though.
AG: They wouldn’t have had my genes.
SJ: No exactly [laugh]
AG: I’ll heat the —.
SJ: I shall put this on pause shall I?
AG: Since I retired, lived in Shoeburyness, Mildenhall and here there has been a resurgent of interest in 617. And also strangely in Pye Cambridge. And I have been recruited, to say to do this kind of interview for Pye Cambridge. Because they are making a record of the activities of Pye in Cambridge, because it has been there ever since it was formed.
SJ: So they are getting a history together of that part of Pye?
AG: There is a historical museum which is bringing all these records together. So they are doing what you are doing and making recordings and eh —.
SJ: It is great it needs doing. I mean how do you feel about the project? How do you feel about the Bomber Command Archive project?
AG: Lets say this. After I have had a session like this or with John Nichol . Or with other things the squadron seems to send to me. Eh, like the Cambridge stamp centre and signing things happened. Undoubtedly I have a disturbed couple of nights. Because it has brought it all back. But then the family encourage me and I totally accept the fact, if people like me didn’t say what this was like. The written word is not necessarily understood. But I think if they hear peoples voice as you are doing now, it might stop wars happening. I thank my lucky stars, that my son didn’t ever have to go through the trauma of a six years war. It was, don’t get me wrong. I think it was necessary. Hitler wouldn’t have got stopped in any other way. And I think in a way Hitler getting stopped, Mussolini and Stalin also got stopped. Because the consequences of the nuclear bomb was so dreadful that it stopped. And I don’t think there would have been a nuclear bomb if it hadn’t have been for the war, ‘cause the money would not have been found.
SJ: Yeah.
AG: Do I sound too serious?
SJ: No. I completely agree with you. Lessons need to be learnt from the past, don’t they?
AG: I think those of us who went through it. Have kind of a duty to make sure these subsequent generations knew what it was like.
SJ: Do you feel this generation and future generations will understand how it was?
AG: It’s difficult to say. But John Nichol tells me his book had a huge print and he has sold a lot of copies. So that if it get put into houses and families and people must have been buying it to read at home. It didn’t all go to libraries.
SJ: No not at all.
AG: The younger people eh, might well have learnt from it. And the BBC have done a number of programmes about the Air Force and the war in general. The Navy, all those aspects have been fired[?] some of it must have sunk in.
SJ: Yes you would like to think so.
AG: Yeah. And I think we have a duty to make sure that it became available. But it is not something that I enjoy.
SJ: Yes I completely understand, yeah.
AG: Because, well my family were fortunate. My brother was in the Navy, he was on the Arctic Convoys on HMS London, and eh —.
SJ: What was your brothers’ name?
AG: Kenneth, Kenneth George. And he, he went in the Navy. Largely because of my father I think. My father was Thames Bargeman. There’s Thames barges on the wall.
SJ: Yeah, I noticed them when I came in, yeah.
AG: My father was a Freeman of the River Thames. And he was on Thames barges and then on Thames tugs.
SJ: Did your father have military background?
AG: No, in the First World War he was a barge captain. And he, he used to load ammunition at Woolwich Arsenal, and take it over to France to a place called St Valerie.
SJ: He had a very important job.
AG: He used to take it across the channel. Through all those minefields and what have you.
SJ: Very risky.
AG: Yes it was. And at the end of the war he was presented with the Maritime Medal.
SJ: Oh brilliant.
AG: But you know the chances that he took as a civilian. He should have got much more than that.
SJ: I know. What was you fathers name?
AG: George, George David. He lived until he was ninety four, the last six years with us at Shoebury.
SJ: You mentioned your brother. Did you have any more brothers or sisters?
AG: No just the brother. My mother had twins which were still born, my brother and I —. They really were, they were extremely poor in a sense. Because in the shipping slump of 1931, 32 the barges were laid up all over the East Coast. And he just got on care and maintenance pay which was hardly anything. And with that he was trying to run himself on the barge, tied up to a buoy and the family at home. So his savings gradually went. So he had to, he had a break down eventually about 1934. And he stayed on the water in a sense because he became the hand in an oyster dredger on the river Roch at Rochford. And he did that eh, about eight months in the year. Then he was unemployed for the rest of the year. So he dispersed his savings looking after his family really. So I did have a very big moral obligation to my parents who were the salt of the earth.
SJ: Yes they sound like they were, which was great. I think that generation they were, weren’t they?
AG: They were family minded.
SJ: They were mm.
AG: They, [pause] I don’t think they bought themselves a Christmas present. Where my brother and I always had one.
SJ: Yeah, what were your family Christmases like?
AG: The family, my father had one, two, three. Three daughters, three sisters and two brothers. And one of the aunts was a school teacher and she took a fatherly interest. So silly isn’t it, she was an aunt, she couldn’t take a fatherly interest [laugh]. An aunt interest in my brother and I. And he won an open scholarship, a total scholarship to Clarks College when he was thirteen.
SJ: Oh brilliant.
AG: It was the only one on offer in the whole of the area, and he won it. He went to Clarks College. By the time I got to and I was four years younger. By the time I got to the age when I was sitting exams. They couldn’t afford for me to be another drain on the family finances. So eh, I went to work at Ecko.
SJ: How old were you when you started there?
AG: I was fourteen.
SJ: Fourteen mmm. How did you feel about working, starting work so young?
AG: It was the common thing.
SJ: It was mmm.
AG: I was on the, I was at the village and I stayed at the village. I was only at the municipal college for a short time and I was working and doing it evenings. But the village, I was almost. Hardly any of us did further education but my family believed in it. So I did further education and my brother was good example to me that he had won an open scholarship.
SJ: That was brilliant.
AG: But the village had a tradition of going to work at fourteen.
SJ: Yeah. But they did didn’t they? I mean they is eighteen now when they leave school. It is a big difference these days.
AG: But I would say this about the great working school; it was first class. And they had dedicated people. We had two Welshmen who were school masters there and they gave up their Saturdays for sport. They never let us go to a fixture without one of them being there. You know it was —. After school they’d, we would go into the playground and get a matting wicket and play cricket. And they always did it in a —. I look at teachers these days and I think to myself. ‘You should have lived with those people, you would have learned an awful lot.’ They believed in the welfare of their students. Where as now they seem to want —. [Interruption]. ‘Come in.’ [shout]
SJ: Shall I put this on?
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Syd Grimes
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AGrimesS151121
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Sue Johnstone
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:54:01 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Sydney Grimes grew up near Southend and joined the RAF as a wireless operator in 1940. He flew a total of 41 operations - 24 operations with 106 Squadron and 17 operations with 617 Squadron. He then served on 9 Squadron at RAF Bardney for 2 months and 50 Squadron at RAF Sturgate for 3 months, where he assisted on the return of prisoners of war in Operation Dodge. After demobilisation he returned to his old company and retired as the managing director.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1943
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Hugh Donnelly
Richard James
106 Squadron
50 Squadron
617 Squadron
9 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
crewing up
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Manchester
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
RAF Balderton
RAF Bardney
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Scampton
RAF Sturgate
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
Tirpitz
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1898/35375/LPenswickJ[Ser -DoB]v1.pdf
a2b5f946091570f95e5cfc73e2e49f7f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Penswick, Jack
J Penswick
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Penswick, J
Description
An account of the resource
19 items. The collection concerns Jack Penswick (1497486 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 61 and 617 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by John Penswick and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jack Penswick’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LPenswickJ[Ser#-DoB]v1
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for J Penswick, air gunner, covering the period from 25 October 1942 to 19 May 1945. Detailing his flying training, operation flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Morpeth, RAF North Luffenham, RAF Swinderby, RAF Syerston, RAF Scampton, RAF Woodhall Spa and RAF Upper Heyford. Aircraft flown in were Botha, Wellington, Manchester, Lancaster, Oxford, and Martinet. He flew a total of 30 operations, 16 with 61 Squadron (surviving a bale out) and 14 with 617 Squadron. Targets were Dusseldorf, Bochum, Oberhausen, Cologne, Krefeld, Mulheim, Wuppertal, Gelsenkirchen, Milan, Munchengladbach, Berlin, Mannheim, Munich, Hannover, Flixecourt, Liege, Tromso, Urft Dam, Ijmuiden, Politz, Rotterdam, Oslo Fjord, Dortmund-Ems Canal, the Tirpitz, Bielefeld and Arnsberg viaducts. His pilots on operations were Sergeant Pearce, Pilot Officer Willsher and Flight Lieutenant Gumbley.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-13
1943-06-14
1943-06-15
1943-06-16
1943-06-17
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1943-06-23
1943-06-24
1943-06-25
1943-06-26
1943-08-14
1943-08-15
1943-08-30
1943-08-31
1943-09-01
1943-09-03
1943-09-04
1943-09-05
1943-09-06
1943-09-07
1943-09-23
1943-09-24
1943-12-16
1943-12-17
1943-12-20
1943-12-21
1944-11-11
1944-12-08
1944-12-11
1944-12-15
1944-12-21
1944-12-22
1944-12-29
1944-12-30
1944-12-31
1945-01-01
1945-02-24
1945-03-13
1945-03-14
1945-03-19
1944-11-12
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Netherlands
Norway
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Oslofjorden
Belgium--Liège
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northumberland
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
France--Abbeville Region
Germany--Arnsberg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bielefeld
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Euskirchen Region
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Mülheim an der Ruhr
Germany--Munich
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Schleswig-Holstein
Germany--Wuppertal
Italy--Milan
Netherlands--IJmuiden
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Norway--Tromsø
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Poland
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942
1943
1944
1945
16 OTU
1660 HCU
29 OTU
61 Squadron
617 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Botha
Grand Slam
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Manchester
Martinet
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Morpeth
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Scampton
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
Tirpitz
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1895/35931/SGillK1438901v40007.1.pdf
23a7b10d190492c9547f73b0dfb1562c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gill, Kenneth
K Gill
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Gill, K
Description
An account of the resource
One hundred and sixty-four items plus another one hundred and fifteen in two sub-ciollections. The collection concerns Flying Officer Kenneth Gill DFC (1922 - 1945, 1438901, 155097 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents, photographs and family and other correspondence. <br />He flew operations as a navigator with 9 Squadron before starting a second tour with 617 Squadron. He was killed 21 March 1945 having completed 45 operations.<br /><br />The collection also contains two albums. <br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2114">Kenneth Gill. Album One</a><br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2117">Kenneth Gill. Album Two</a><br /><br />Additional information on Kenneth Gill is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/108654/">IBCC Losses Database.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Derek Gill and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kenneth Gill - service history
Description
An account of the resource
Joined 18 June 1941. Trained as navigator in Canada. After operational and conversions training in England during which he flew two operations. He was posted to 9 Squadron at RAF Bardney where he flew 25 operations which are listed. After a tour as a navigator instructor, he went to 617 Squadron and flew 19 further operations and was killed along with his crew on the last. Operations on 617 listed.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-06-18
1943-02-25
1943-03
1943-04-18
1943-04-20
1943-05-04
1943-05-11
1943-05-23
1943-05-25
1943-05-29
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-14
1943-06-21
1943-06-25
1943-06-28
1943-07-07
1943-07-25
1943-08-07
1943-08-10
1943-08-27
1943-08-30
1943-09-03
1943-09-06
1943-10-03
1943-10-04
1943-10-20
1943-11-03
1943-11-18
1943-12-14
1944-09-27
1944-09-29
1944-10-29
1944-10-30
1944-11-04
1944-11-11
1944-11-12
1944-11-13
1944-12-08
1944-12-11
1944-12-15
1944-12-21
1944-12-29
1944-12-30
1944-12-31
1945-01-02
1945-01-30
1945-02-03
1945-02-06
1945-02-14
1945-02-22
1945-02-24
1945-03-13
1945-03-14
1945-03-19
1945-03-21
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Great Britain
England--Rutland
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Lincolnshire
Scotland--Moray
France
France--Clermont-Ferrand
Italy
Italy--La Spezia
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Essen
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Cologne
Italy--Milan
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Rheydt
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Munich
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Leipzig
Norway
Norway--Tromsø
Germany--Euskirchen (Kreis)
Netherlands
Netherlands--IJmuiden
Poland
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Atlantic Ocean--Oslofjorden
Norway--Horten
Netherlands--Hoek van Holland
Germany--Bielefeld
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Arnsberg
Germany--Bremen
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five page printed document
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription. Allocated
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SGillK1438901v40007
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
617 Squadron
9 Squadron
aircrew
crash
Grand Slam
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
killed in action
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
mine laying
navigator
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bardney
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
Tirpitz
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1895/35680/LGillK1438901v1.1.pdf
1fcaf9a0c545538c4700852b3da1bf4c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gill, Kenneth
K Gill
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Gill, K
Description
An account of the resource
One hundred and sixty-four items plus another one hundred and fifteen in two sub-ciollections. The collection concerns Flying Officer Kenneth Gill DFC (1922 - 1945, 1438901, 155097 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents, photographs and family and other correspondence. <br />He flew operations as a navigator with 9 Squadron before starting a second tour with 617 Squadron. He was killed 21 March 1945 having completed 45 operations.<br /><br />The collection also contains two albums. <br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2114">Kenneth Gill. Album One</a><br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2117">Kenneth Gill. Album Two</a><br /><br />Additional information on Kenneth Gill is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/108654/">IBCC Losses Database.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Derek Gill and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Kenneth Gill’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for K Gill, navigator, covering the period from 17 May 1942 to 21 March 1945 when he was missing on operations. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RCAF Chatham, RAF North Luffenham, RAF Swinderby, RAF Bardney, RAF Syerston and RAF Woodhall Spa. Aircraft flown in were Anson, Wellington, Halifax, Lancaster, Hudson, Tiger Moth and Stearman. He flew a total of 46 operations, one with 29 operational training unit, one with 1660 conversion unit, 26 with 9 squadron and 18 with 617 squadron. His pilots on operations were Flight Lieutenant Evans, Flight Lieutenant Derbyshire, and Fl;ight Lieutenant Gumbley. Targets were Clermont Ferrand, Spezia, Dortmund, Duisburg, Dusseldorf, Essen, Wuppertal, Bochum, Oberhausen, Krefeld, Gelsenkirchen, Cologne, Milan, Nurnberg, Rheydt, Berlin, Munich, Kassel, Frankfurt, Leipzig, Tromso - Tirpitz, Urft Dam, IJmuiden, Politz, Rotterdam, Horten, Pootershaven, Bielefeld, Ladbergen, Arnsberg and Arbergen.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943-02-25
1943-02-26
1943-04-18
1943-04-19
1943-05-04
1943-05-05
1943-05-11
1943-05-12
1943-05-23
1943-05-24
1943-05-25
1943-05-26
1943-05-27
1943-05-28
1943-05-29
1943-05-30
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-13
1943-06-14
1943-06-15
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1943-06-25
1943-06-26
1943-06-28
1943-06-29
1943-07-08
1943-07-09
1943-07-25
1943-07-26
1943-08-07
1943-08-08
1943-08-10
1943-08-11
1943-08-27
1943-08-28
1943-08-30
1943-08-31
1943-09-03
1943-09-04
1943-09-06
1943-09-07
1943-10-03
1943-10-04
1943-10-05
1943-10-20
1943-10-21
1943-11-03
1943-11-04
1943-11-18
1943-11-19
1944-10-29
1944-11-11
1944-12-11
1944-12-15
1944-12-21
1944-12-22
1944-12-29
1944-12-30
1944-12-31
1945-01-01
1945-02-03
1945-02-06
1945-02-14
1945-02-22
1945-02-24
1945-03-13
1945-03-14
1945-03-19
1945-03-21
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Netherlands
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
New Brunswick--Chatham
France--Clermont-Ferrand
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Arnsberg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bielefeld
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Euskirchen Region
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Rheydt
Germany--Wuppertal
Italy--La Spezia
Italy--Milan
Netherlands--Hoek van Holland
Netherlands--IJmuiden
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Norway--Horten
Norway--Tromsø
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Germany--Bielefeld
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Arnsberg
Germany--Bremen
New Brunswick
Norway
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGillK1438901v1
1660 HCU
29 OTU
617 Squadron
9 Squadron
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hudson
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
mine laying
missing in action
navigator
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bardney
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodhall Spa
Stearman
Tallboy
Tiger Moth
Tirpitz
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/759/17840/PCruickshankG1502-0005.1.jpg
63dcd9e942003cd0e4b21e8b47d8da80
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/759/17840/PCruickshankG1502-0006.1.jpg
4cf1fdbae22a1a52b8e8fb8a2abf90ec
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cruickshank, Gordon
G Cruickshank
Description
An account of the resource
76 items. Concerns the life and wartime career of Flight Lieutenant Gordon Cruickshank DFM who joined the Royal Air Force in 1938. After training as an air gunner he flew 52 operations on Manchester and Lancaster with 50, 560 and 44 Squadrons. Collection consists of a 1956 memoir with original photographs donated separately, a memoir of his life on squadron from December 1941, his logbooks. a further notebook with memoir, playing cards annotated with his operations, official documents, lucky mascots, medals and badges, dog tags, memorabilia, crew procedures, as well as photographs of aircraft, targets and people.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Linda Hinman and catalogued by Nigel Huckins
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-04-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cruickshank, G
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster gate guard with Vulcan overflight
Description
An account of the resource
A Vulcan flying over the Lancaster gate guard at the entrance of RAF Scampton with trees behind. Tallboy and Grand Slam bombs are also visible beneath the Lancaster. To the right the gate posts, people and a bus. On the reverse 'Lancaster at Scampton Main Gate'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCruickshankG1502-0005, PCruickshankG1502-0006
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Grand Slam
Lancaster
RAF Scampton
Tallboy
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1564/43465/MCurtisA1579599-161130-02.1.pdf
6ade64adf230bddeecdea07af9f1c55d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Curtis, A
Curtis, Len
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Curtis, A
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collection concerns "Len" Curtis (1579599 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents and a manuscript. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 106, 630 and 617 Squadrons.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Cary Curtis and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
LANCASTER J B 139
[drawing]
DARK VICTOR
[Page break]
[Photograph]
Don Cheney’s crew (photograph taken in London circa December 1943).
Back row (L-R): R. Pool, J. Rosher, W. N. Wait, McRostie. Front row (L-R): R. Welch, D. Cheney, A Curtis
L’équipage de Don cheney [sic] (photo prise à Londres vers décembre 1943).
Debout, de gauche à droite: R. Pool, J. Rosher, W. N. Wait, McRostie.
Assis, de gauche à droite: R. Welch, D. Cheney, A Curtis.
[Page break]
617 Squadron’s campaign against the V-Sites in the Pas de Calais had concluded with the final assault on the V-1 site at Siracourt on 1st August, 1944. The Pas de Calais had been over-run by various units of the Allied Armies, positively breaking out from the consolidated beach-head area, and sending the German forces into headlong retreat along the whole front, save for the various French coastal redoubts, which the Allies initially by-passed without making any strong effort to subdue them.
617 Squadron, in company with other squadrons of Bomber Command, had pulverised the enemy’s E-Boat flotillas in the French harbours of Le Havre and Boulogne, forcing the remnants to retreat to the comparatively safer harbours of Holland, notably Ijmuiden. These units now had a much longer voyage to oppose the invasion support convoys and this, together with the short summer nights, had rendered their efforts against these convoys almost innocuous and very costly in the casualties inflicted by the convoy escorts.
With the underlying threat of the V-Sites firmly removed, 617’s efforts were re-directed against the French Biscay ports of Brest, Lorient and La Pallice. The aim was to deny these ports and their facilities to the ocean-going U-Boats and to drive them to other, and more northerly lairs. There was an additional purpose in the matter of Brest. Strong American forces had broken out of their bridgehead area and were deploying rapidly and with great purpose through the “bocage” country of Normandy and Brittany. American units had isolated the German garrison in Cherbourg, one of the planned redoubts, whilst other motorised and armoured columns were making all speed towards Brest. The Allies needed to capture a large established
[Page break]
deep-water port as soon as possible. Thus, the German garrison in Brest, with their numbers greatly increased by the many other German units which had sought refuge from the American advance, needed to have demonstrated to them just exactly what the total Allied air supremacy would bring to them during any period they might resolve to hold out. “Drive out the U-Boats and intimidate the garrison” . . . these were the deadly purposes of the assaults about to be launched from the air on Brest.
Flying Officer Don Cheney eased Lancaster “KC – V“ (JB 139) into the air at 0949 hours on Saturday, 5th August, 1944, from RAF Woodhall Spa. The squadron effort was sixteen Lancasters, each armed with a Tallboy bomb, and “V – Victor” was the ninth aircraft to get airborne. Beside the pilot, Flight Sergeant Jim Rosher prepared to ease back the throttles and later set the “revs and boost” his captain would request for the climb to height, once the full take-off procedure had been fulfilled. Flight Sergeant Len Curtis prepared to take his Bomb Aimer’s position in the nose from his perch on the step immediately below the flight engineer’s position. At the navigation table Pilot Officer Roy Welch was busy “setting out his stall” . . as was the wireless operator Flight Sergeant Reg Pool at the W/T set. In the mid-upper turret Warrant Officer Ken Porter settled himself comfortably, whilst Pilot Officer William Noel Wait did likewise in the rear turret. Both gunners prepared to unlock and test their turrets when the engines were throttled back and it was safe to do so.
The aircraft circled the airfield until the navigator warned that it was almost time to set course. Don brought the Lancaster round on to the
[Page break]
required heading over the airfield and commenced the long, unhurried climb to the operational height of 18,000 feet.
It was a beautiful summer’s day . . . very warm with almost cloudless skies affording continuous sunshine. The mighty Merlins lifted the heavily-laden aircraft effortlessly and without one discordant note. Don checked with each member of the crew that all systems were operational and that there were no snags. He actioned the occasional slight course correction offered by the industrious navigator. When the aircraft had reached the operational height, Don called for the necessary cruising “revs and boost” to be set on the dials, checking the readings when he had Jim Rosher’s assertion that this had been carried out.
Don felt quite elated that another operational phase was beginning for the squadron against the U-Boat pens, with formidable Brest as the first target. He had found the tasks on 617 much more self-satisfying than those long, and very demanding, hauls in the enemy darkness, to bomb Target Indicators laid by other unknown crews. In the daylight raids of 617, captains were required to identify their aiming-points visually and to aim their bombs at this point . . often able to observe the success of the squadron’s effort before the confirming reconnaissance photos were available. Even on the 617 night operations, the Lancaster crews knew that the target had been identified and marked with meticulous accuracy by the squadron’s Mosquito marking force, so that the red spot fires could be bombed with the certain knowledge that they were on the aiming point. Don’s mind slipped back to the attack on the Watten V2 site in the Pas de Calais on July 25th, when the very accurate flak defences had knocked out one engine of his aircraft and so severely damaged the hydraulic system that all turrets became inoperable: the bomb doors hung limply open and the
[Page break]
availability of the undercarriage became a matter of conjecture and prayer. The fuselage was awash with hydraulic oil and filled with the acrid smell of cordite. Miraculously, the intercomm was working and Don had raised all the crew, save the mid-upper gunner, the Aussie “Mac” McRostie. Don instructed the wireless operator to investigate the silence, in case the gunner was in need of assistance. A shaken Reg Pool appeared beside him some moments later, puled Don’s right earpiece aside and yelled “Mac’s gone!”. Don banked the aircraft, to bring it round course back to the UK, at the same time surveying the area below. His eye picked up the white silk of a parachute against the background of green countryside. It was about four thousand feet below the Lancaster and drifting gently inland. Mac’s prisoner-of-war status had been reported to Allied sources within a few days by the Resistance network. Don had taken stock of the damage to the aircraft during the return flight, and was greatly relieved to discover that no fires had started and that no member of the crew was injured. Some desultory heavy flak was aimed at them as they neared the French coast, but it was inaccurate and did no damage. Jim Rosher called Don’s attention to something overhead and there, sitting some thirty feet above the Lancaster, and sliding gently across and back again, was a Spitfire. The Spit then perched just off the starboard wing, with he pilot giving “Thumbs Up”, until the English coast was reached and then, with a salute of farewell, it peeled off to starboard and was gone. There was a temptation to “drop in“ at one of the many ‘dromes en route, but dogged persistence drove them on to Woodhall Spa. Fortuitously, the emergency air bottles “blew down” and locked the undercarriage and “T for Tare” flopped in without ceremony or waste of time, on clearance from the Control Tower.
[Page break]
It was this series of events that had introduced Ken Porter into the crew. Ken had finished his first tour with 619 Squadron at Coningsby and had immediately opted to join 617. By coincidence, Don Cheney had been the pilot of the Lancaster which had flown the short distance from Woodhall Spa to Coningsby to pick him up and effect his transfer to his new squadron. Don was very pleased to have a fellow Canadian in his crew, for all the other members were from the United Kingdom and . . . Len Curtis’ voice broke in on his musings. “English coast coming up, navigator . . . we look to be OK on track and I’ll give you “crossing coast” when we’re overhead”. Roy Welch duly acknowledged the message and Don alerted himself for the passage across the Channel and into enemy territory. Once over the sea, both gunners performed the ritual test of the turret guns and reported all guns serviceable. ”V – Victor” crossed the enemy coast without any opposition manifesting itself, with the promised Spitfire escort ranged above and around the assembling 617, as they marshalled at the rendezvous point. Don took his allocated position in the “gaggle”, which proceeded on its stately and irrevocable purpose. The bomb-sight data passed between the navigator and the bomb-aimer, to be re-checked once it had been fed to the bomb-sight and before the aircraft was committed to the bombing run. Then the formation swung sharply to starboard, denying confirmation to the defenders of Brest that the port was really the objective of the operation until the last possible moment., The campaign against the U-Boat bases had begun in deadly earnest.
The run-up to the target was some twenty miles in length. As always, the Stabilised Automatic Bomb-Sight demanded the closest tolerances of height, course and airspeed from the pilot and Don Cheney’s total concentration was
[Page break]
on these three factors. He knew from Len Curtis’s calm voice and quiet, unhurried directions that the bomb-aimer had the target well and truly lined up in his bomb-sight. Sweat trickled into Don’s eyes and down the side of his face, soaking into the collar of his shirt . . . not much longer now, and the Tallboy would be on its lethal way and he would have the luxury of drying himself with his handkerchief . . . not much longer for that blessed relief . . . not much longer. Suddenly, the voice of the rear gunner broke into the intercomm. “Looks as if some quite heavy barrage fire is coming up, skip!”. Don did not answer, his whole being concentrated on the final crucial moments of the bombing run. Ken Porter swung his turret to check the rear gunner’s observation. A second string of black bursts appeared above the black cotton-wool of the initial salvo and his experienced eye could see that the salvos were creeping higher and nearer. Don heard the dulled explosions . . . under the nose and to each side, he surmised, but the bomb-aimer’s directions held him in thrall. Then came the memory-stirring clangs and thumps as direct hits struck the aircraft with giant hammer-blows. A gasping cry came over the intercomm but still the bomb-aimer continued his relentless commentary. The cockpit filled with cordite fumes and again fiery red bursts erupted around the aircraft. Another involuntary cry came over the intercomm, almost drowned by the triumphant cry of “Bomb Gone!” from the bomb-aimer. With the main duty now performed, Don began the task of extricating the crew from the serious situation in which they obviously were. He banked and dived the Lancaster to port to elude further predicted bursts. Jim Rosher folded his seat and moved towards the navigation table. Don was still holding the dive from the danger zone when Jim came on the intercom. “Roy and Reg are both hurt, Don” he reported. “I’m attending to Roy . . . Ken and Noel have come forward
[Page break]
[inserted] 7 [/inserted]
and are attending to Reg”. “Any idea of the damage, Jim?” asked Don. “All the gauges on the Engineer’s panel are wrecked, Don” replied Jim. Ken Porter came on the intercom. “I got down from my turret after the first strike, Don, to see what the score was . . and then the second shell struck home, just aft of the main spar, I figure. I almost choked on the fumes from the explosion of that shell! The damage seems to be confined to the starboard side of the kite, in the wing-root area”. “There’s a large hole in the nav table” interjected Jim “and the radio compartment is pretty badly smashed!”. “Thanks both” replied Don. “Could Roy give me a course for Base when he’s ready?”. Jim Rosher realised that Don did not quite know the extent of the navigatgor’s [sic] wounds. Shrapnel had struck him in the face, tearing away the oxygen mask and removing his upper teeth and gums. Jim had just applied a field dressing to the area . . . despite the pain he was suffering, Ron had managed to smile crookedly when the pad was put in place. When Don’s request came over the intercomm, and to Jim’s utter amazement, Roy sat up in his chair, pored over his log and wrote some figures on a clip-board pad. He then stood up with a great effort. Aware of movement on his right, Don turned quickly. Roy was standing by the pilot’s seat, one hand grasping the high, armour-plated back and the other carrying the clip-board. His face was covered from nose to chin with a large antiseptic pad. There were large spots of blood on his shirt collar and on the side of his head. He was unable to speak but relinquished his grip on the seat-back, to hold the clip-board where Don could read it, indicating with his pencil the message he had written. “Heading 060”. . Don gave him a grateful nod and set the course on his compass repeater. Roy tottered back to his seat for Jim Rosher to continue to minister to his wounds. Len
[Page break]
Curtis had switched off the SABS and all the bombing gear and brought the First Aid kit to assist the two wounded members.
Don continued the descending turn to port, aiming to bring the Lancaster on to the course so gallantly proffered by the navigator. He had noted that Ron was not on oxygen and assumed that Reg was in the same predicament, so he had increased the rate of descent in order to get down below oxygen height as quickly as possible. The compass needle was nearing a southerly heading in the continuing turn, when he felt a poke in the side. He looked to his right and saw Jim Rosher pointing to the starboard wing. Don looked along the raised wing and was appalled to see a large jagged hole between the two engines. It looked large enough for a man to crawl through! Beyond this chasm, was a number of smaller holes, from which were emerging small light blue flames and wisps of smoke. He continued the diving turn to port, to keep the possible fire hazard away from the fuselage. He mentally summed up the prospects and gave the order “Prepare to abandon aircraft! Prepare to abandon aircraft!”.
Jim Rosher checked that his ‘chute was readily to hand. He saw that Len Curtis was still busily engaged, ministering gently to the badly-wounded Wireless Operator, who had sustained wounds in the chest and legs from large jagged pieces of shrapnel. Jim lowered himself into the bombing well to prepare the escape hatch for abandonment, a duty which normally Len would have performed. He was lifting the hatch from its location when he noticed that Len Curtis’s ‘chute was lying loose on the floor. Fearing that the slipstream might suck it from the aircraft when the hatch was jettisoned, Jim let go of the hatch, which by this time was half-way out of the aircraft. The impact of the slipstream jammed the hatch across the
[Page break]
escape exit. Jim crawled carefully around the partially-blocked exit and secured the rogue ‘chute in its proper stowage. He then endeavoured to deal with the recalcitrant hatch cover. He managed to budge it a few inches but that was all. He gave up and returned to his post beside the pilot.
On receipt of the captain’s order, Ken Porter and Noel Wait immediately went back to their ‘chute stowages to clamp their parachutes on their chests, leaving Len Curtis still ministering to the wireless operator. Noel Wait was having some trouble with his ‘chute pack and Ken Porter went to help him. Noel must have thought that Ken was on his way to the rear door, for he called urgently “Wait for me!” . . . which Don heard on the intercom and he sought to reassure the rear gunner that the order was only preparatory at that time. Suddenly the starboard inner engine failed and began to belch flames and black smoke. Jim Rosher quickly feathered the engine and threw the appropriate graviner switch to quell the flames in that engine. This seemed to deal effectively with the situation. “Both wings are holed, Don” reported Jim “and the fuselage is badly holed and torn in many places!”. Don could see a blue flame burning ominously in the No 2 fuel tank. It seemed to be growing even as he watched. He could feel heat building up from the starboard side of the cockpit. There was not a moment to Lose! . . “ABANDON AIRCRAFT! ABANDON AIRCRAFT!” he ordered.
At the rear of the aircraft, Noel Wait had plugged into the intercomm socket whilst Ken Porter had secured the rear door open. Ken saw that flames were streaming back from the starboard wing, almost the length of the fuselage. The flames and smoke dispersed suddenly, but hard on the heels of this Ken received a visual signal from Noel that the order to
[Page break]
abandon aircraft had been given. He signed for Noel to go first, but Noel indicated for Ken to lead the way. Ken sat on the door sill with his legs dangling in the slip-stream. He leaned back and then tried to roll himself forward, as had been so easy in the practice drills. But due to the aircraft’s “starboard wing up” attitude, the roll forward took a great deal of effort and Ken found himself leaving the aircraft much closer to the fuselage than he might have expected. However, that seemed to ensure he was well clear of the tail assembly. He had no doubt that Noel would quickly follow him.
Jim Rosher slid forward into the bombing well and tried desperately to free the jammed hatch. Suddenly he was aware that Roy Welch was beside him, ‘chute clipped on and a large dressing still strapped across his face. In spite of his injuries, Roy assisted Jim to such effect that, although their efforts failed to free the hatch cover, it was moved sufficiently to allow a somewhat cramped escape route. Roy waved his hand in farewell to Jim and, with some difficulty, launched himself from the aircraft. Jim turned to see that Len Curtis was now in the bombing well. He put his mouth close to Len’s ear and said “How’s Reg?” “He’s right behind me!” replied Len “You leave now and I’ll follow you!” Immediately Jim manoeuvred himself through the restricted escape exit and was gone. Len edged his way around to his ‘chute stowage, clamped the ‘chute on to his harness and returned to the jammed hatch cover. He could see that he was not going to be able to negotiate the exit as he constituted at the moment, being, in his own words, “somewhat portly”. He tried without success to budge the jammed cover. Reg Pool was sitting dazedly on the fuselage floor, above the step leading into the bombing well. Len signalled Reg to retreat a bit, to give Len more
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room, but it was obvious that Reg just did not understand what Len was indicating. Len released the ‘chute straps from his main harness, whilst keeping the ‘chute secured in the clamps. He used both hands to raise the pack above his head and sat down at the escape exit with his feet through the narrowed opening. Gripping the pack above his head as tightly as his fingers would allow, he uttered a silent prayer and thrust himself into space. His stratagem worked and he cleared the aircraft without difficulty.
Don Cheney had ceased turning the aircraft to port on issuing the order to abandon and held it at height on a southerly course whilst his crew got out. He could see that the aircraft was just out to sea and felt that his crew would have a better chance of escaping capture in the area south of Brest, if the surge of the German retreat had been pell-mell northwards towards Brest once Wehrmacht units had been appraised of the American “break-out in great strength” some days previously. One of Jim Rosher’s last acts before leaving the aircraft had been to lay a ‘chute pack under Don’s seat, to expedite Don’s own departure from the Lancaster. Don had been fully informed of the situation with the jammed hatch cover. He was aware of the departure of the navigator, flight engineer and then his bomb-aimer. He knew that the two gunners had left by the rear door and appreciated that the badly-wounded wireless operator and himself were the sole remaining aircrew. He climbed down from his seat and, holding the aircraft as steady as possible by keeping his left hand on the control column, he strove with his right arm to help Reg to his feet. Slowly he managed to raise Reg and used both hands to steady the weakened aircrew. As soon as he had taken his hand from the control column, the aircraft began to wallow ominously from side to
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side. Don was forced to regain his seat and settle the aircraft again. Reg clung precariously to the side of the seat whilst this was happening. When he was satisfied that the aircraft was on even keel again, Don left his seat and clipped his wireless operator’s ‘chute on to Reg’s harness. Reg had been holding the pack, but was obviously too weak to do this task for himself. The Lancaster insisted on nosing into a steep dive each time Don took his hand from the controls and repeatedly Don had to regain his seat to bring the aircraft out of the dive. Eventually, Reg had been prepared for abandoning the aircraft. In one of the Lancaster’s “behaviour lulls”, Don was able to lead him down to the escape exit. Reg dangled his feet through the escape exit and, with Don’s help and guidance, was able to grasp the silver D-ring. Again, Don had to leave him to “recover” the aircraft from a dive. As soon as he could, he returned to Reg’s side. Don had some misgivings about Reg’s capacity to act correctly once he had left the aircraft and sought to reassure himself, although there really was no alternative to what had to happen. Don removed Reg’s helmet and, putting his mouth close to Reg’s ear, he said urgently “You will be OK, Reg, won’t you? . . . once you’ve left the aircraft?” The injured man nodded a couple of times. Somewhat reassured, Don continued “Keep hold of the ring, Reg and don’t pull it until you are well clear . . . understand?” Again he was answered with nods of the head. Don put his hands under Reg’s armpits, lifted him and eased him gently through the exit. Suddenly, Reg was gone without any further hurt or hindrance. Don peered through the exit but failed to pick up any sign of a parachute. He became aware that the aircraft was diving again and hurried back to regain control and to prepare for his own departure.
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Don had scarcely retrieved the situation when there was a surge of heat from the starboard side of the fuselage. Instinctively he turned to the engineer’s panel and was aghast to see bubbles appearing in the yellow paint of the panel. He climbed down from his seat and stooped to retrieve his ‘chute pack and clipped it to his chest. He had to remove his hand from the controls to effect this and immediately the Lancaster went into a steep dive. A noise like a roaring tornado developed as the slipstream tore in through the escape hatch and ravaged through the battered fuselage to escape at the open rear door. The engine noise was rising to a crescendo! . . . he fought his way back into his seat and with a superhuman effort, brought the nose up . . up . . up . . and then pushed the column forward until a semblance of “straight and level” flight was assumed. His mind had been racing ahead . . . no way was he going to be able to get down into the bombing-well and launch himself into space before the stricken Lancaster went into its final death-dive . . . no way could he reach the rear door exit, either! No, it HAD to be through the ditching hatch above his head! He turned in his seat, so that he was able to kneel on the seat cushion and jam his rump against the control column. He gave the release handle a firm twist and the hatch cover windmilled off into the slip-stream. The wind-noise increased ten-fold! Don removed his helmet and sun-glasses and tossed them towards the floor, but they were immediately whisked off down the fuselage. With his feet now on the seat, he forced his head and shoulders through the hatch opening but found he was unable to clear it. Urgently, he sought to get first one foot and then the other on the seat armrests . . . and then was shattered to find that the ‘chute pack prevented him from getting through the hatch! He crouched back again inside the cockpit. The
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aircraft was in a steep dive and his best efforts could only bring the nose up slightly. He knew he HAD to get out NOW! He resumed his attempt to get through the dinghy hatch, but this time was able to flip the pack upwards and clear of the hatch before beginning to wrestle the rest of his body through the opening. He stood on the armrests again and managed to get his right knee on the edge of the hatch. His left foot groped frantically for additional purchase below. Miraculously, he made contact with the back of the seat . . . felt his way upwards until his foot was at the top of his seat which provided a promise of firm leverage. He paused to gather all his reserves of strength and then gave a tremendous push on his left foot. He bulleted out into a roaring cacophony of sound. The blurred hump of the mid-upper turret flashed past and, with that peculiar human sense that allows one to observe the innocuous in moments of great personal stress, he gave mental thanks that Ken had remembered to depress the turret guns. The two large tail fins loomed and went safely by and with them the W/T aerials that could have cut through him like a wire through cheese . . . and then he was tumbling in space, with his knees drawn up to his chest. In his gyrations he saw blue sky and white clouds framed between his flying boots . . . then water . . . then land . . . then the sky and clouds again to complete the cycle. His consciousness was no longer dominated by the roar of the aircraft. Instead, there was a rushing of air past his ears. He felt around the pack for the release handle and seized it thankfully. He waited a further five seconds and gave it a very firm pull. It gave with incredible ease and he was conscious of holding the D-ring in his hand, with a two-feet length of wire attached to it and not the slightest slackening of his speed of fall! “Hell!” he thought “I’ve pulled it too
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hard and the “chute just isn’t going to work! What an ending after all I’ve escaped!”. A definite “whumpf” halted these thoughts in their tracks . . . his headlong fall was arrested . . . he assumed an upright position . . . no more rushing air in his ears. He was floating gently aloft, with only the gentle flapping of the beautiful white canopy above him to break the silence of that lovely summer afternoon. He heard the drone of an aircraft and looked around to see “V for Victor” in its death throes. It had reared from its downward plunge, with its nose rising until the Lancaster toppled over. For one frightening moment Don felt that there was a distinct possibility of the aircraft banking round and perhaps striking him, but then it went into a gentle spin towards the sea. An eternity seemed to pass before it finally struck the surface with one final roar. A great burst of red flames and thick black smoke was followed by a boiling circle of churning sea. The Don saw a series of smaller splashes as lesser debris hit the water, but finally nothing remained to mark the grave of “V for Victor” but a column of spiralling smoke which the sea breeze quickly dispersed.
A dull, muted droning of aircraft engines became faintly audible. Peering into the distance, Don could make out the specks of other 617 aircraft which, having delivered their bomb-loads, were now haring back to Woodhall Spa. Soon they were gone and an unbroken silence descended. Don could see no other ‘chutes in the sky around him. To all intents and purposes he was completely alone.
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Len Curtis was greatly relieved when the billowing silk canopy of his parachute arrested his headlong fall through space. He became aware that, whilst he had been wrestling his way through the narrowed escape hatch, the racing slip-stream had torn off his right flying boot, and for a few moments he was non-plussed . . . why hadn’t his left flying boots joined its companion? But he was swiftly dragged back to reality when he saw the Lancaster turning towards him in a shallow dive. For a few agonising moments, he was sure that it would hit him, but suddenly it resumed straight and level flight and the danger passed, but too close for real comfort. Len examined the area around and below him but failed to pick up the ‘chutes of Roy Welch and Jim Rosher. He began to assess his own situation and estimated that he would enter the waters of the bay some two miles from land. The sensation of rapid descent increased as he neared the water. He prepared himself for the plunge by unlocking the quick-release unit of the ‘chute. When he judged himself to be about fifteen feet above the surface of the sea, he struck the unit with his clenched fist, at the same time operating the automatic inflation lever on his Mae West. He fell out of his ‘chute and harness, which drifted away, clear of the spot where Len eventually hit the water. He went down only a few feet before rising buoyantly to the surface. He surveyed the geography of the bay and found himself in the broad base of its sweep. Undaunted, he commenced to swim towards the shore, deflating his Mae West slightly to allow himself to assume a comfortable swimming posture. He was glad to find that the water was quite warm and felt that, under less intimidating circumstances, it would have been quite a pleasant way to spend a summer afternoon. He glanced at his watch . . it had stopped at 1220 pm.
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He made steady progress towards an outcrop of rock and estimated that he had been in the sea for about two hours, when a burst of automatic fire split the silence. He heard the hiss of the bullets as they passed overhead and he turned to face the direction from which they had come. He made out a knot of German troops on the beach. About half-dozen had their weapons trained threateningly on him, whilst one beckoned him imperiously to change his direction towards them, making it plain what would happen if he refused. Cursing his luck, Len swam towards them and soon he was standing on the beach, dripping wet, surrounded by Germans. They expertly removed all his valuables and possessions, which they pocketed with great satisfaction, but the reception was generally cordial. Obviously, they remarked between themselves on his missing boot. Len discarded his Mae West, and it was immediately examined by the interested troops. Len was disgusted to find that they were armed with Sten guns . . . the guns that the supply squadrons regularly dropped to the Resistance! His captors were obviously a platoon under the command of a Corporal, but quite soon a car appeared from which emerged a Wehrmacht officer. He strode across to Len, who stood to attention, as military etiquette demanded. The German studies Len for a few moments. “Ah, Feldwebel” he said and motioned Len into the car. With Len flanked in the rear by two “Sten-armed” soldiers, and the officer in the front passenger seat, the car moved off. It sped through a town which Len was to learn later was Douarnenez and on for some way until it reached a small military camp. Len was escorted to a cell and a meal of German field rations and hot black erzatz coffee was provided, again with the same cordiality that had reigned on the beach. He rested for an hour or so, when the door was unlocked and a Feldwebel beckoned him out. He was taken to an office block and escorted into a room where a different
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Wehrmacht officer sat at a table. Len saluted as he entered and the officer indicated the chair which faced him across the table. Len sat down and prepared himself for the interrogation. “Number . . . rank and name” he was asked, in quite reasonable English and Len provided this information, which was entered on the form in front of his interrogator. “Unit?”, came the next question. Len shook his head “I am afraid I cannot give you that, sir” he replied. The officer looked at him quizzically and after a few moments, pushed himself back from the table and left the room through a door behind his desk . . . Len heard a muffled conversation between perhaps three or four voices and then the officer returned. “Sergeant, you will be taken to Quimper airport tomorrow and handed over to the Luftwaffe. The information you have given us will be forwarded, as required, but we have more important things to do at this moment than to interrogate RAF prisoners.” He called for the Feldwebel and soon Len found himself back in his cell. Relief allowed him to sleep quite soundly that night.
In the morning he was given a meal and transported under guard to Quimper airfield. Before he left the camp, he was handed a pair of German Army issue boots. Len took a grip on the leg and boot of his flying boot with a few swift jerks, separated them by breaking the stitching, as provided by their design. He tore out the silk linings of the legging, folded them into small packs, and put them in the back pockets of his battle-dress trousers. He managed to have some conversation with his guards on the drive to Quimper and discovered that the majority of the troops holding this part of France were Austrian and Czech formations. There was an awareness of the American break-out from the invasion beaches and Len was left with the distinct impression that his guards wanted nothing more
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than to be captured in one piece and get out of this war! This cheered him no end, and went a long way in explaining the cordiality with which he had been received.
At Quimper airfield, he was placed in the custody of a Luftwaffe corporal, who seemed to be the only Luftwaffe representative left. His Wehrmacht guards and driver insisted on shaking hands with him before they left, and Len was becoming more and more at ease with his situation. The Luftwaffe corporal turned out to be a conscripted Czech who had a few similar Czech troopers under his command. He was quite amenable and spoke some English. Len gathered that the corporal was hourly expecting orders to evacuate the airfield and this would mean moving a band of about two hundred French Algerian prisoners-of-war . . and Len! He spent a not unpleasant day at Quimper and could see that morale amongst the German “mercenaries” was plunging.
The following day, Monday 7th August, the Luftwaffe corporal informed Len that orders had come through to evacuate the airfield and move all prisoners into the Crozon Peninsular. It was estimated that a march of some 45 kilometres lay ahead, which Len interpolated as around 28 miles. The corporal added that the march would be accomplished at night, since the Allied Air Forces had made the roads in Brittany very dangerous for the movement of large formations in daylight hours. Len rested most of the day in preparation for what lay ahead. At about 1700 hrs, the corporal and his troop began the thankless task of assembling their French-Algerian prisoners, many of whom had so many large packages draped about them that they looked like pack-mules! Just before 1800 hrs the party, in some fifty
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files of four abreast, trudged out of the camp, en route for the Crozon Peninsular, with the corporal pushing his beloved bike. It was a warm clear evening, with the guards anxiously scanning the skies and straining their ears for the first possible warning of an air attack. Fortune favoured the column in this respect and dusk fell with no interference from marauding Allied fighters. Dusk turned to night, with bright moonlight effectively lighting the road. The party, which had had a degree of compactness at the outset, was now strung out over a distance of some four hundred yards. Consequently, the escort became ever more thinly spread along the length of the column. They passed through what appeared to be sleeping French villages, although Len was certain that curtains were raised in darkened upstairs windows to observe their progress. He wondered if “underground” radios were passing the information on to Maquis squads and fervently hoped that no clandestine ambush would be laid against the party before its identity had been checked.
Occasionally a halt was called for a short break, generally in the area of a village pump, or public water supply. The dispersal of the marchers had one advantage, in that it made for less crowding around the drinking area. It also allowed the mass to coagulate somewhat, although the more lightly-weighted elements were soon ahead of the “beasts of burden” once the march was resumed. Len’s feet became blistered, and so he sat down on a grassy bank, removed his German field boots and put his feet in the cool water of the brook that ran past. He soaked some of the linings from his flying-boot and carefully bound up his blistered feet, revelling in the relief that the silk pads immediately afforded. He became aware that many of the Algerians now passing him were limping badly. Ignoring the guards, Len called to them, indicating for them to sit on the bank and bathe their feet as he had
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done. They did this gratefully. Len set to work to minister to as many as he could until his lining stock was exhausted, but he still signalled to others to bathe their feet. The guards shrugged their shoulders . . . some even joined their charges in their ministrations.
Still the trek dragged on its weary way. Fruit trees and occasional root crops gave sustenance to the prisoners, for no ration provision had been made for them when the march was ordered. Len quite understood when he saw them stuffing items into their baggage after each “windfall” . . . they were providing against what might lie beyond their next camp.
Len was padding along beside the bike-pushing corporal, who was becoming quite concerned about the spread of the column, now that their destination was about two hours walk ahead. The corporal called a halt for the prisoners at the head of his party and indicated to Len that he would be going back to “chivvy along” the stragglers. He left his bike in Len’s charge and strode back down the road. When he was out of sight, Len mounted the cycle and pedalled off towards the squad of prisoners ahead. Some of the Algerians thought he was escaping and gave him encouraging cheers, but Len felt his best bet in the obvious chaotic battle situation was to accept his present captivity until a genuine opportunity presented itself to make contact with Allied troops. In the meantime, using the corporal’s bike would take the weight off his blistered feet! When he was almost upon the leading batch, he dismounted and rested by the roadside. When the first file of the laggards hove into hearing and view, he remounted the bike and caught up with the leaders once more. He continued this routine of “riding and resting” for an hour or so before actually riding through the ranks of the pace-setters and finally making the guards understand that their batch should wait for the remainder of the prisoners
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to catch up, so that the party could arrive as a whole unit at their destination, which could not be all that far ahead. The prospect of a break appealed to the guards and the prisoners and they were quite content to rest for the hour it took the whole of the rear party to catch up. The corporal was pleased with Len’s arrangements but took the precaution of reclaiming his bike, so that Len finished the trek on his own two well-rested feet.
It was just after 1100 hours on Tuesday, 8th August that the whole party arrived at their destination in the Crozon Peninsular, some eighteen hours after leaving Quimper airfield. The Algerians were marched on to a makeshift camp, but Len was taken by the Czech corporal to a house that had been commandeered by the Wehrmacht. Len was accommodated in a bedroom converted into a cell and was asleep almost as soon as his head touched the rough pillow.
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Len was kept in this location for two days, with very little restriction on his movements. His corporal “friend” accompanied him on exercise walks in the immediate areas and Len was “on the ration strength” of the guard-room staff, eating the same food as they did. Len observed that the Wehrmacht were just as opportunist at supplementing rations as any other army in the field and included him in the share of the “extras”.
On the evening of the third day, a small Wehrmacht lorry stopped outside the guard-room. The driver produced orders for Len’s transfer to Brest and Len was duly handed over, after hand-shakes all round, much to the amazement of the lorry driver who proved to be a genuine ”German” German! Two Wehrmacht soldiers with fixed bayonets watched over him in the body of the truck, but they also showed great concern about the almost-continuous aircraft engine noise that accompanied that nocturnal journey to what proved to be Brest, but, to the great relief of all, they made the journey without incident. Len was initially kept in a small school, barricaded with barbed wire, along with mainly American Army prisoners, although he did come across two more RAF aircrew during his stay.
Yet again the Germans decided to move him and he was transplanted within the Brest boundaries to a castle which housed some one hundred and fifty American soldiers. He was occasionally included in the fatigue parties that were roughly assembled and marched down into the dock area to help clear the rubble-strewn streets, the legacy of the many bombing raids that the port was enduring. Low-flying and dive-bombing American fighter-bombers strafed and bombed the port’s defences continually throughout the daylight hours, with great effect. Len was crossing a street when he heard a bomb coming down that he knew was going to be very close. He dived into the
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gutter, with his face turned in towards the kerb and his hands clasped behind his neck. He sensed more than heard the explosion but felt the blast on his hands. He leapt to his feet and headed for a shelter like a scalded cat. He literally dived into the shelter which was mainly filled with German personnel but they made room for him and no-one objected to his presence.
On another occasion in the dock area he took shelter when the Air Raid sirens screamed their warning and an ominous silence descended on the port for a few minutes, until the heavy flak began to spit in anger. Instinct told Len this was a “heavies job” but he didn’t stand in the open to decide whether it was the RAF or the Eighth Army Air Force. A few minutes later the walls of the shelter trembled as salvos of bombs plummeted into the harbour area, although Len was pretty sure they were not Tallboys!
The Germans decided to move the prisoners from Brest. The military situation was becoming extreme for them and they could no longer spare the considerable number of front-line personnel needed to maintain the prisoner-of-war organisation. These guards were now needed as replacements for the defenders killed by the Allied Air Forces. The column of prisoners was moved out at night and marched, via the town of Le Fret, to the small seaside resort of Rostellec, in the Crozon Peninsular.
The days passed, with the food stocks dwindling. All French civilians had long been cleared out of Rostellec and Len and his immediate companions began to scavenge for food to supplement their meagre fare. It was a great find to discover onions in the overgrown wilderness of what had once been a lovingly tended vegetable garden of one of the village houses. The military population of the Crozon Peninsular grew each day, as the German troops
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retreated before the American mobile forces. Rostellec provided Len and the other Allied prisoners with a grand-stand view of the bombing of Brest by RAF and American aircraft. Soon the concentrations on the Peninsular were bombed heavily and regularly by light bombers and fighters, inevitably causing casualties among the American prisoners and some of the members of the French Resistance confined with them. Over fifty were wiped out in one raid alone.
Eventually, on Monday, 18th September, six weeks after he had been shot down, liberating forces of the American Army rolled into the Crozon Peninsular. The bottled-up Germans had had enough and the surrender was swift and unanimous. With magnificent perception, among the early arrivals with the US Army were large lorries liberally laden with “PX supplies” and soon field-kitchens were providing almost “peace-time” meals for the hungry hordes of prisoners. Len ate and drank his fill before slipping off to find a comfortable billet for the night. He found himself in a house that had been an impromptu Mess for Wehrmacht officers. The beds were clean and comfortable. He lowered himself thankfully into the depths of the most inviting of them and was soon sleeping that sound and deeply refreshing sleep which was known in the Air Force as “a short course of Death”.
The sun was well up when he surfaced again. He lay luxuriating in the bed, gathering his thoughts and making plans for the day. He would have to make contact with some US officer who could arrange transport . . or offer help . . to get him back to England and Woodhall Spa. Eventually he sat up and began to dress, when suddenly he became curious to know what might be contained in the furniture with which the room was furnished. The chest of drawers
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revealed nothing of interest but the wardrobe yielded a pair of German officer’s field boots! The leather was beautifully soft and shiny. Len drew them on, scarcely daring to breathe, and he almost shouted with delight at their perfect fit. He drew his battledress trouser-legs down over them which served to make it appear that he was wearing normal shoes. He finished dressing and made his way to the nearest field-kitchen where he was supplied with food by the American cooks without demur. When he was finished, he approached a huge sergeant-cook and asked where he could find a US officer. The sergeant stared at him for a moment “A god-dammed Limey!” he said “Jeez, they had one of everything in this place!” “Officers? Boy, they’re as thick as flies around here” he continued “Just walk around and you’re sure to find one!”. Len took his advice and soon saw a jeep with an American officer and two sergeants aboard. He approached the jeep, threw up a smart salute and said “Excuse me, sir!”. The dust-covered American looked quite startled but Len pressed on. “I am a bomb-aimer in the RAF. I was shot down six weeks ago and am anxious to get back to my unit in England. Can you help me?”. “Not personally, sergeant” replied the officer. “You see, there’s this war on and we’ve got to gather in all the Kraut prisoners and ship out all our own captured personnel for assessment and re-allocation . . and that’s quite a job in any man’s army!” He paused for a moment and then went on “Just down there, on the right, they’ve established an MT compound and Mess. Your best bet is to speak to one of the quartermasters. The lorries are running supplies from the dump at Rennes and the boys from up in the wild blue yonder have a makeshift airfield at Rennes . . chances are you can thumb an aerial lift there”. “Thank you, sir . . very helpful” replied Len, saluted and turned away. He heard one
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of the sergeants say “These Limeys! Always correct and military, even when they’ve been six weeks adrift!”.
Len found the compound and watch [sic] the activity for a while. He saw that the drivers of lorries arriving with stores vacated their seats to the Camp personnel and hurried off to the large marquee which was obviously a temporary Mess. German prisoners-of-wat supplemented the American Army personnel in the unloading of the vehicles. Once a vehicle was unloaded, it was driven off the site and parked in a lager where it was refuelled and checked. After some ten minutes or so, drivers came to reclaim their vehicles which were driven off westwards at a fair rate of knots. Len wandered over to where the top-sergeant was standing and occasionally bawling. “Excuse me, sergeant . . . how can I get a lift to Rennes?” The sergeant wheeled at the sound of Len’s voice and in a voice heavy with amazement said “A god-damn Limey! I heard you were all still stuck on the beaches!” “No, I’ve been here six weeks, sergeant” replied Len innocently. “Six weeks, eh?” rejoined the sergeant “Guess you want to get back to Limeyland real quick. Best you can do is go over to the chow tent and ask around . . . most of the trucks are running from Rennes”. Len thanked him and turned towards the marquee. “Limey” called the sergeant “Make sure you take some of the hard-tack for the journey. There are no roadside cafes along that road now!”.
Len sauntered into the marquee and marvelled at the quality of the food that was being offered to the drivers. He approached one driver who seemed to be almost finished eating. “Excuse me . . any chance of a lift back to Rennes?”. The American surveyed him for a few moments and said “Who are you?”. “RAF aircrew, shot down over Brest six weeks ago. I want to get back
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to England and an officer out there said the best way was to hitch a lift back to Rennes, with a chance of getting an air trip from the airfield there”. “Your luck’s in, fellah” smiled the American “My orders take me to Rennes airfield, to load up and return to this Base. I’ll be glad of the company!”. Len waited until the driver had finished his coffee and followed him out of the marquee. From a table close to the entrance, the American grabbed two bags and tossed one to Len. “Hard tack for the journey” he explained, at the same time lifting a large Thermos flask from the side of the table. The lorry was quickly located and soon they were heading westwards, on the 150 miles journey to Rennes. The driver was most anxious to hear about Len’s previous six weeks in France and that conversation, together with the “chow break”, made the five hours journey pass reasonably quickly. It was getting quite dark when they pulled into Rennes airfield. “No night-flying from this field, Limey” said the American. “Best plan is to find yourself somewhere to sleep for the night and try your luck in the morning”. Len thanked his for his help and descended from the truck near a group of airfield buildings. He found a camp bed and a blanket in one of the rooms and settled down for the night.
Len awoke around 7 am on what promised to be another fine day. There was no sound of flying activity from the airfield as he dressed. He found a stand-pipe tap between the buildings and had a refreshing cold-water wash which revived him no end. He looked across the airfield and saw what appeared to be Dakota aircraft on the farther side and began to walk around the grass perimeter towards this dispersal. Suddenly a wonderful small of cooking assailed his nostrils and reminded him that he was quite hungry. He followed his nose, somewhat like the kids in the “Bisto” advert, and came
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upon an underground air-raid shelter from which the aroma was issuing. He called down “Anyone there?” which immediately struck his as trite, since obviously some-one had to be cooking the food! His call brought the head and shoulders of an American sergeant into view. He looked questioningly at Len, without saying a word. “Any chance of some grub, sarge?” queried Len hopefully. “What’s a Limey doing here at this time of the morning?” countered the American. Len gave him a rapid potted history of the past six weeks, which seemed to satisfy the soldier. “Anything to trade?” queried the sergeant. Len offered him the choice of the few German badges and insignia he had gathered during his sojourn in France and the satisfied sergeant withdrew into the shelter. He appeared some minutes later with a huge sandwich, which Len found to contain a large portion of beautifully cooked Texas longhorn steak, topped with two eggs, to be washed down with as much coffee as he wished. Len did not rush this meal . . . such a feast needed to be savoured and appreciated to the last crumb! Finally he took his leave of his benefactor and made his way to the dispersals, which were now a hive of activity.
A study of the area revealed to Len what appeared to be the Administrative centre. He made his way over to this hut and explained his position to the top-sergeant seated in a smaller office inside. “Yeah” said the sergeant “Plenty of flights to England! Where are you heading?”. Len explained that he needed to get to London. “Fine!” came the rejoinder “Got one flight for London due to leave in about thirty minutes! Come with me, Limey”. He escorted Len across the tarmac and introduced him to two fur-jacketed American officers. “One returning Limey prisoner-of-war to be added to your manifest, sir” said the sergeant to one of the officers and sauntered off. Len found himself outlining the last six weeks to the two very interested
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Americans. Before long, the Dakota was taxying to the take-off point with Len comfortably settled in the fuselage.
The flight took a little over three hours and the aircraft landed at what is now Heath Row [sic]. Len thanked his hosts for the lift and made his way to a cluster of huts, to locate some RAF authority to report to and from whom to obtain instructions. He explained his circumstances to a sergeant who said “Follow me, Chiefie! There’s been quite a trickle of aircrew through here this past fortnight. I’ll take you to the officer who has the “drill” off pat now!”. Soon Len was on his way to the Central Hotel in London, where returning former P.O.W. aircrew were required to report for debriefing. He arrives at the nearest station to this Central Hotel and was walking the final stage when he heard behind him “Excuse me, Flight Sergeant”. He turned round, to find himself confronted by two Service MPs, beautifully turned out and burnished. He had time to note that one was of Warrant Officer rank, while the other, a flight sergeant, began to berate him for his appearance and threatening a charge for being improperly dressed. Mentally, Len could only agree with him, for his wardrobe consisted simply of his battledress blouse and trousers, the legs of the trousers still covering the German officer field boots . . . no socks, shirt, tie, pants or vest. However, his resentment welled up within him and he explained forcefully, with many epithets thrown in, just how he had come to this pass, and advised the SPs to allow him to continue on his journey to report his return to Higher Authority. Speechless, and suitably chastened, the SPs stood mute as Len turned his back on them and arrived at his destination.
[Page break]
Once his identity had been checked and proved, Len was allowed to have a bath and provided with a shaving kit to make himself presentable for the programme which followed. First, he was given the full stringent aircrew medical, which he passed without any trouble. He was then given the items of clothing he needed to assume a “smart, airmanlike appearance”, although he retained the field boots as a souvenir of his exploits. He was given a meal and then subjected to a thorough debriefing, covering the period from the moment the Lancaster was hit until his arrival at “Heath Row”. He was required to stretch and search his mind for any detail that he had observed that might prove of value to Intelligence sources. Special interest was shown in his report that the Czech and Austrian elements he had encountered appeared to be looking for the opportunity to surrender and get out of the war whole. Eventually, when he had run the full course of the Central Hotel, he was again fed, given six weeks leave, with free warrant home and the appropriate ration cards, and two pounds in cash for subsistence on the journey home . . . most of which disappeared “down the hatch” by the time his train left London.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster JB139 Dark Victor
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Le Havre
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Netherlands
Netherlands--Ijmuiden
France--Brest
France--Lorient
France--La Pallice
France--Brittany
France--Normandy
France--Cherbourg
France--Watten
France--Douarnenez
France--Quimper
France--Crozon Peninsula
France--Rennes
Great Britain
Heathrow Airport (London, England)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Wehrmacht
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
33 printed sheets
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCurtisA1579599-161130-02
Description
An account of the resource
A memoir of an operation involving Len Curtis and his crew members. During the operation his aircraft was shot down and Len was captured. However, he was liberated by American soldiers and returned to London six weeks later.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1944-08-05
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
617 Squadron
619 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing of the Boulogne E-boats (15/16 June 1944)
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
C-47
flight engineer
Lancaster
mess
Mosquito
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Coningsby
RAF Woodhall Spa
Resistance
Spitfire
Tallboy
target indicator
target photograph
V-1
wireless operator
-
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05741a85384d842f783459ade63bf6e4
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16545/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020017.2.jpg
14aa30754ea1c64913be8ff16586be3b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing harbour area on the left side with two bright marks centre and bottom left. Caption '126, WS 14/15.6.44, NT 8, Le Havre RD, F, 1 x 14000, F/O Stanford, F, 617'. On the reverse '1700, from Pens'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020016, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020017
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16547/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020018.1.jpg
68e4f9e362d35d9a3ff8618905550b77
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16547/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020019.1.jpg
818fe9df6fc6c9de9c604314e547b477
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing harbour area on the left with bright spots top left quadrant and centre left. Caption '128, WS 14/15.6.44, NT 82, Le Havre RD, F, 1 x 14000, F/O Stanford, F, 617'. On the reverse '51:93/9'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020018, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020019
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16548/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020020.2.jpg
0de3ee91dadb0eb4a60f95c217403702
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16548/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020021.2.jpg
56d625ce8d4c0f82c86d43848d80983a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing harbour area on the left with bright spots top left quadrant and just below centre left. Caption '146, WS 14/15.6.44, NT8", Le Havre RD, J, 1 x 14000, P/O Gingles, L, 617'. On the reverse 53:93/10'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020020, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020021
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16549/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020022.1.jpg
1d916e15cccce45f8472e1ee77038d52
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16549/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020023.1.jpg
ee10403d16722e6fe34710bc3463c713
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing built up area on the left and harbour area on the right. Bright spot centre one third way up. Caption '130, WS 14/15.6.44, NT 82, Le Havre RD, K1, 1 x 14000, F/L Wilson N, 617'. On the reverse 53:93/11'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020022, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020023
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16551/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020024.1.jpg
bec83984786df445bf304a8915dfa06a
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16551/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020025.1.jpg
1c6e95b136b5d7a108a2e9e12e2964fc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing coastline on the left. Caption '138, W.S 14/15.6.44, Le Havre RD, S, 1 x 14000, F/Lt Reid, S, 617'. On the reverse '53:93/12 Photo 159'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020024, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020025
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16553/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020026.1.jpg
26c9a3e0d9b917bac85e3f67f9237d37
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16553/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020027.1.jpg
056be507ad6489c8f8f0874600900b4e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing bright spots bottom left and bottom centre. Caption '172, W.s. 14/15.6.44, NT 8", Le Havre, T, 1 x 14000, F/O Willsher, T, 617'. On the reverse '51:93/13'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020026, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020027
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16554/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020028.1.jpg
e224f82b0fb5b0274938c7fdb4556b92
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16554/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020029.1.jpg
d792908f5c161a760dee34adbfc0fc58
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing two bright spots on left side. Caption '148, ,W.S. 14/15.6.44, NT 8", Le Havre RD, V, 1 x 14000, F/O Cheney, V, 617'. On the reverse '51/93/14'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020028, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020029
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16555/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020030.1.jpg
f7bb86a5470d389666d600a79335241f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16555/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020031.1.jpg
08ed4c09fd3a7739c4fe8d420291a7ea
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing bright spots bottom left and just right of centre. Caption '141, WS 14/15.6.44, NT 8", Le Havre RD, V, 1 x 14000, F/O Cheney, V, 617'. On the reverse '51:93/15'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020030, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020031
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16557/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020032.1.jpg
88507ee511eb4a7bfd1a2bbd96401694
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16557/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020033.1.jpg
c63f4510c5602950aed0a5342bdccdc0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph blurred with built up area on left. Caption '137, WS 14/15.6.44, NT 8, 16700, 108 degree, 2234, Le Havre RD, Z, 1 x 14000, 15 secs, F/O Ross, Z, 617', On the reverse '500 yards 190 degrees'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020032, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020033
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16558/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020034.2.jpg
208da780a206121d85a884f5939d5d3c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16558/MCheshireGL72021-181210-020035.2.jpg
a2234334faa5a4dfd4ab8be0375529dc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing land at the top and sea at the bottom with town and harbour centre. There are two bomb explosions visible left centre and a bright spot below them to the right.. Caption '6 90, KLS, 14/6/44, 8" 20000, H, H625'. On the reverse 'Shows bomb flash on 617 Sqdn target, 51:83/17'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-14
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCheshireGL72021-181210-020034, MCheshireGL72021-181210-020035
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-14
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cheshire, Leonard. Bombing of the Le Havre submarine pens (14/15 June 1944)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
License
A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource.
Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
617 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Tallboy
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1564/43462/LCurtisA1579599v1.2.pdf
c5064b0ec6a041bfe12c4be8fcc84cff
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Curtis, A
Curtis, Len
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Curtis, A
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collection concerns "Len" Curtis (1579599 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents and a manuscript. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 106, 630 and 617 Squadrons.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Cary Curtis and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Len Curtis' Flying Log Book
Description
An account of the resource
Len Curtis' Flying Log Book as Air Bomber from July 1942 until 5 August 1944 when he was reported as missing in action. Started at 15 EFTS then 10 AFU. 29 OTU, 1660 CU. Posted to 106, 630 and 617 Squadrons for operations.
Served at RAF Dumfries, RAF North Luffenham, RAF Swinderby, RAF Syerston, RAF East Kirkby, RAF Woodhall Spa. Aircraft flown were Tiger Moth, Anson, Botha, Wellington, Lancaster. Carried out a total of 39 operations. One night propaganda leaflet drop with 29 OTU, 11 night operations with 106 Squadron, 11 night operations with 630 Squadron, 9 day and 7 night operations with 617 Squadron. Targets included Paris, Berlin, Nuremberg, München Gladbach, Munich, Kassel, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Hannover, Dusseldorf, Toulouse, Saumur Tunnel, Le Havre, Boulogne, Watten, St Omer, Wizernes, Rilly la Montagne, Siracourt, Etaples, Brest. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Cheney.
This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Stuttgart
France
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
France--Brest
France--Etaples
France--Le Havre
France--Marne
France--Paris
France--Saumur
France--Saint-Omer (Pas-de-Calais)
France--Siracourt
France--Toulouse
France--Watten
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LCurtisA1579599v1
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-07-01
1943-07-02
1943-08-23
1943-08-24
1943-08-27
1943-08-28
1943-08-30
1943-08-31
1943-09-03
1943-09-04
1943-09-06
1943-09-07
1943-10-03
1943-10-04
1943-10-05
1943-10-07
1943-10-08
1943-10-18
1943-10-19
1943-10-22
1943-10-23
1943-11-04
1943-11-05
1943-11-23
1943-11-24
1943-11-26
1943-11-27
1943-12-02
1943-12-03
1943-12-16
1943-12-17
1943-12-20
1943-12-21
1943-12-24
1943-12-25
1943-12-29
1943-12-30
1944-01-01
1944-01-02
1944-01-03
1944-01-20
1944-01-21
1944-01-28
1944-01-29
1944-04-05
1944-04-06
1944-04-10
1944-04-11
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-19
1944-06-22
1944-06-24
1944-07-17
1944-07-20
1944-07-21
1944-07-25
1944-07-31
1944-08-01
1944-08-04
1944-08-05
1944-08-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Nick Cornwell-Smith
106 Squadron
1660 HCU
29 OTU
617 Squadron
630 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bomb aimer
bombing of Kassel (22/23 October 1943)
bombing of the Boulogne E-boats (15/16 June 1944)
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Bombing of the Saumur tunnel (8/9 June 1944)
bombing of the Watten V-2 site (19 June 1944)
bombing of the Wizernes V-2 site (20, 22, 24 June 1944)
bombing of Toulouse (5/6 April 1944)
Botha
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Manchester
missing in action
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Normandy deception operations (5/6 June 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Dumfries
RAF East Kirkby
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16911/SCheshireGL72021v10079-0001.1.jpg
ba2f975dcaf2bfe1d5ea390393c867ac
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16911/SCheshireGL72021v10079-0002.1.jpg
12d9bb532e552e81157a293c94d72b2d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1252/16911/SCheshireGL72021v10079-0003.1.jpg
d4a51983a97f61bade5e22ace4894d2f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cheshire, Leonard
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard
Baron Cheshire
Description
An account of the resource
374 items concerning Group Captain Leonard Cheshire VC, OM, DSO & Two Bars, DFC. Collection consists of photographs of people, vehicles, places, aircraft, weapons and targets; documents including, private and service letters, signals, telegrams, intelligence reports, crew lists and official documents. Cheshire served on 102 and 35 Squadrons and commanded 76 and 617 Squadrons. The collection includes details of 617 Squadron's precision bombing operations. Also included are two sub-collections: one containing 21 photographs of Tinian and Saipan, the other consisting of 37 audio tapes of speeches given by Cheshire after the war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by The Leonard Cheshire Archive and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[Crest]
Vickers-Armstrongs Limited.
(AIRCRAFT SECTION)
WEYBRIDGE WORKS,
WEYBRIDGE, SURREY.
OUR REF. CA
YOUR REF. GLC/DO. 17th April 1944
Wing Commander G.L. Cheshire, D.S.O., R.A.F., R.A.F.
No. 617 Squadron,
Royal Air Force Station,
[underlined] Woodhall Spa, Lincs. [/underlined] [underlined] MOST SECRET [/underlined]
My dear Cheshire,
Firstly, very warmest congratulations from all here on the award to you of the second bar to your D.S.O. which I see announced today. You may well believe that everybody at these Works who knows what happened a year ago takes a most lively interest in the doings of 617 Squadron.
Secondly, many thanks for your letter of the 13th enclosing two further bomb plots. I will have these analysed and send you copies in a few days' time.
It is an interesting point about the first plot of 500 bombs that it does not fall in with the normal or Gaussian distribution, as on the whole your probability curve appears substantially better than would be given by theoretical standards. We shall be interested to see what sort of results the nest two plots give.
You will by this time, I hope, have heard of the great success which has attended the dropping of one inert and two live Tallboy M's.
P.T.O.
[page break]
The live stores gave depths of penetration between 60 and 80 feet in gravel, sand and clay with excellent detonation. The films show that they are perfectly stable throughout their flight, and I hope that we have therefore provided you with a new and effective weapon.
With kindest regards,
Yours very sincerely,
[underlined] B.N. Wallis. [underlined]
51:100/79 Boyle Papers
[page break]
[business card]
Mr H.G. Conway,
Chief Engineer.
Messier Aircraft Equipment Ltd.,
Warrington.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Letter to Leonard Cheshire from Barnes Wallis
Description
An account of the resource
On Vickers-Armstrong headed paper classified most secret. Congratulates Cheshire on award of bar to Distinguished Service Order. Goes on to discuss bomb plots sent to Wallis. Concludes with statement on penetration depths of the new Tallboy bomb. Includes a card for Mr H G Conway, Chief Engineer, Messier Aircraft Equipment Company.
Creator
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B N Wallis
Date
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1944-04-17
Format
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Two page typewritten letter and business card
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
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SCheshireGL72021v10079
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Civilian
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Surrey
England--Weybridge
Temporal Coverage
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1944-04-17
Is Part Of
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Cheshire, Leonard. Correspondence
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
License
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Royalty-free permission to publish
Rights
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This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Frances Grundy
617 Squadron
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
Distinguished Service Order
RAF Woodhall Spa
Tallboy
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)