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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1181/11752/AWagnerH160504.1.mp3
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Title
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Wagner, Henry Wolfe
H W Wagner
Description
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15 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Henry Wolfe Wagner (1923 - 2020, 1604744 Royal Air Force), his memoirs, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 51 Squadron from RAF Snaith and became a prisoner of war. He was demobbed in 1946 and returned to education where he remained until his retirement.
The collection was catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-04
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Wagner, HW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JH: This is Judy Hodgson and I’m interviewing Henry Wagner today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We are at Mr Wagner’s home and it is the 4th of May 2016. Thank you Henry for agreeing to talk to me today. Also present at the interview are Steve Drawbridge and Tony Hiddle. Friends of Henry. Ok. So, if you’d like to tell us a little bit about yourself. When and where you were born and your early years.
HW: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was born in 1923 in Ireland but, and for a long time retained Irish citizenship because my mother and father were both Irish. But we came over to England when I was three years old. What the reason for coming over here was I don’t know. My father, my father was a clerk in the Holy Orders. He took a Theology degree at Dublin University. And my mother came from a well-established old Irish family. In fact, she played, played country golf when she was in Ireland. And I and my brothers took up golf, in our, when we were about ten years old. And it’s always been one of my great interests in life. We came over to England and settled down near a little village near Reading where my father set up a dentistry practice and he was always interested in shooting. In game shooting. And he used to gather friends round and with their twelve bores and they would do clay pigeon shooting. And that was one of his great interests. So, he was a dentist and, and a fairly well known game shot because he used to write articles for a magazine at the time called, “The Shooting Times” and “British Sportsman.” Anyway, he deserted the family and again I don’t know the reasons behind it all. I was too small to have any interest in that sort of thing. And left my mother with four boys to look after and no real, not much source of income. My father stumped up a bit from time to time but then packed it in and he had to be chased to carry on. How she did it I don’t know. One mother looking after four boys and a house. Doing all the housework as well. I’ve got to take my hat off to people like that. And we moved to Henley after a time, where they have the regatta and the going wasn’t all that easy financially then. We lived in a council house in not a very salubrious sort of a neighbourhood. But my next brother, there were three brother you see. I was the second one. The third one down, Richard was only a year younger and he and I used to play golf together. In fact, he became quite a good golfer. Handicap down to six eventually and my handicap never came down to lower than twelve. But we played, well certainly twice a week. I went to, was successful in passing the examination to go to Henley Grammar School which was a long established Grammar School. A great tradition behind it. And about a third of children could get Grammar School education. The rest stayed at the, what were called Secondary Modern schools in those days. But at Henley Grammar School I found my main interests were in languages, geography, mathematics. Though I was never any good or much good at. But more about that later. I took school certificate there. Played rugby there. They didn’t play association football it was, Grammar Schools always played rugby and I became a captain of one of the houses. The school was divided into three sections. Three houses which used to compete with each other on the sports fields. And I was captain of Periam House. He rugby team on the rugby fields. We used to play other Grammar Schools around about. So that became my other favourite sport. So we had golf, rugby. By the time I left school — I took the school certificate and then stayed on for the higher school certificate or A level I believe it’s called now and was accepted to go to Reading University. And I would have gone there when I’d be, let’s see, fifteen years, when I was sixteen or seventeen years old. By the time, by the time I went to University the war had already started and it wasn’t going very well. We weren’t prepared for war where the Germans had been preparing for war for years and years. So things were, things were hard. Rationing was hard. Food was scarce. You got — bread was rationed. Jam was rationed. Cooking fats. Butter. Well pretty well everything in fact. Tinned food. Sardines. Pilchards and that sort of thing. They were all in short supply and we used to, in fact our four boys rather we all had our own one jam pot. One pound jam pot a month. And we sort of used to look at this at tea time. Look at the other, the other lad, the other chap’s pots of jam to see how they were getting on with theirs. It was very, things were very, in short supply. There was, soap was rationed. Sweets were rationed. You had to buy sweets which would, you were sure would last for a long time in your mouth. You ate them slowly. You didn’t have chocolate which would be gone in no time. You had the toffees and that sort of thing that would last. So, Reading University now. We were, lived seven miles from Reading University and I didn’t live at the University. I lived at home but we used to go in to Reading every day. I used to go into Reading every day by bicycle. I had to bike into Reading and at the end of the day bike home again. So that was, that was fourteen miles of exercise every day anyway. Sometimes I’d go in on Saturdays because I, for some reason I didn’t play rugby at University. What took my fancy, because this always happened at Henley Grammar School as well, cross-country running was another favourite other sport, other activity at Henley Grammar School. I joined the cross-country club at Reading University and we used to hold triangular matches against other Universities such as Bristol or Southampton or wherever and I mean you didn’t get, you didn’t get, anybody could take part in it. You didn’t get selected. There was, a cross-country team doesn’t have sort of four or six or eight members or whatever there might be. Anybody who’s interested can have a go and of course the better ones were always encouraged. Well, everybody’s encouraged for that matter. So it was mostly cross-country running at University. And also the, so they had the war having started I went to the University in, let’s see 1940. You could, men at the University could either, could join the Cadet Force. They only had an Army Cadet Force. So we, it’s alright, I don’t want to go into the army but every, all the others seemed to be joining the army cadets. I suppose I’d better do the same. No interest in it whatever but after a time, after about a year, the University opened, started Air Training Corps. A Cadet Force. University Air Squadron. That’s what I was trying to think of. And where you could train, anybody from the Army Cadet Force could transfer to the University Air Squadron and so I welcomed that change there. We, it was run as, the squadron commander was appointed. He was the one of the University staff in fact. Professor Miller who was head of geography and also he was Dean of the Faculty of Science. He hadn’t got any Air Force training you understand but he was the, he was in charge. To bring real Air Force personnel into it the Air Force supplied us with a Flight Lieutenant Jordan who was a fighter pilot. Had been a fighter pilot. His flight, he’d been in, his aircraft had caught fire and he was shot down. The aircraft caught fire and he was badly burned about the face. But he was, you looked up to him as one who had been there. He’d been there before you. And also a Sergeant Linton who was an ex-air gunner who’d been shot down in the, in North Africa and he had walked back through the desert back to our own lines. And he was, so he was put in charge of weapons training and that sort of thing in the University Air Squadron. And there were lectures on meteorology which, which Squadron Leader Miller was well trained to do of course being a geographer. And outside lecturers used to come along to talk about Air Force law and organisation and all that sort of the thing and we used to go flying at weekends. Flight Lieutenant Jordan could take us over to Woodley Aerodrome which was about three or four miles away where Miles aircraft were built and he used to take us for a, well we looked on them as joy rides. They were classified as air experiences. So, all in all it was good. The time came for, when I was of an age to be called up and which was at the end of two years at University and I went up to London and, for an interview board and, ‘Why do you want to go into aircrew?’ and so on. I had always been interested in flying. When my brother and I were about ten, what would we be? Ten. Eleven. Twelve. That sort of age. We used to have those, buy those model gliders that you shoot. You had like, they were on a catapult and we used to go to a field near our house. We used to do a lot of kite flying and that sort of thing and always had an interest in flying. Yes. And the, the Air Force accepted me for aircrew training. And as a pilot. I was accepted for pilot training. The system was that some lads being interviewed just chose, well I’d like to be a navigator, or I’d like to be bomb aimer or I’d like to be a gunner or whatever but most put down pilot first of all. And those that failed could either choose one of the other categories. So, it was called the PNB scheme. Pilot, navigator, bomb aimer. And, and those three trades you were trained abroad in those because you needed flying experience. The gunners, air gunners they’d be mostly recruited from, from the ground staff at the various airfields and squadrons and they could be trained there and then because they, it didn’t take an awful lot of training to be a gunner. You had to know how to operate the equipment and services and cure stoppages and how to aim off or deflection shots according to the speed of the other aircraft and so on. They didn’t need very extensive training. They could, that could be carried out by their own squadrons. So, alright. Well, I’m in the PNB scheme then. I’ve been accepted to train abroad as a pilot. But before, before all that I was you got so those who were going to be who were selected to be trained as pilots were sent to different aerodromes around the country where, where flying clubs had been before the war mostly. There were some aircraft manufacturers who had their own aerodromes of course to, you got to fly the stock off when it’s built after all. But the, these were called grading schools and you were, you were taken in charge by a, by a proper Air Force instructor. A very experienced Air Force instructor. And he would teach you the how to fly the, a Tiger Moth. There’s a picture of a Tiger Moth in there in fact and the two seater bi-plane. Not all that easy to fly really but the aim was, or the standard was that you had to have, you had to have gone solo by your ten hours instruction. If you hadn’t gone solo in less than ten hours then you were automatically rejected and put on to your next choice you see. So we used to fly when I was at Brough up near Hull on the, on the Humber Estuary and we used to take off, used to take off and fly over the circuit. Went along beside the Humber then up across the river. Along the south side and back north again across, across the River Humber and a circuit took about a quarter of an hour. So, well it was enjoyable. After, I went solo after a month or so after nine and three quarter hours so I was home and dry there. And I thought, right, that’s all set up now. I’m going to be a pilot. So back on leave after that. And the next call up was for a posting abroad to carry on the, carry on the pilot training. Some people went to Canada where they had the Empire Air Training Scheme. Some went to Rhodesia which is now Tanzania isn’t it? And some went to South Africa and the chap that went solo before me on this particular day he went, he happened, Ron Waters who was at the University Air Squadron with me he went to Canada and completed his training out there. I went to South Africa and did my training down there. So you never knew where you were going to get sent to. Hold on a minute.
[recording paused]
HW: So, after grading school I was posted. I went on leave and then was posted to Liverpool for embarkation for South Africa. We, nobody told us we were going to South Africa but we’d been provided with, with khaki shorts and a pith helmet. A sun helmet and khaki gear so we knew it was going to be somewhere hot. So we embarked on the steamship Strathmore. We set sail from Liverpool around the north of Ireland. We were crowded down below. The accommodation was, there was no room to move about down below. You had a table. Table. Tables for about a dozen people where the food was served up to and that’s where you were fed. You had to sling hammocks for sleeping purposes but they were uncomfortable and most people settled for sleeping just on the floor or on the tables. And we set sail around the north of, of Ireland and the sea was really rough. It was. The boat was swooping. Not just up and down but sideways as well. And most people could be seen hanging over, up on the deck, hanging over the rails and depositing the contents of what they’d had for their last meal. It was uncomfortable until you got your sea legs after a few days. And the weather turned warmer the further you went south. So we went out, out, far out into the Atlantic. We were, the Strathmore was a fast steamship. It wasn’t escorted at all by destroyers to keep away German U-Boats. It just relied on speed. And the first port of call was Freetown in Sierra Leone. As we, as we entered the harbour we heard, we observed destroyers depth charging not far off so the Germans were around about. After a couple of days there we went out into the Atlantic again. Down south, round the south of South Africa and in to the port of Durban. This was, for us this was a real holiday. We’d come away from hard up England and we were, the weather was lovely and warm. We had the access to as much as sweets, chocolates, that sort of thing, as we wanted. And my first purchase was a can of sweetened condensed milk which I consumed in no time flat. Also, being Durban there was, Durban I should say was a transit camp because from there everybody came into Durban but then they were allocated from there to different, different training airfields. So there wasn’t much. It was just, you were it was just a place where you waited for your next posting. We could go down to the down to, down to the sea at Durban and Durban beach. And it was good swimming down there. The Indian ocean. The water was warm. The weather was warm. There was, the food was good. So it was real relaxation until, well I stayed there about what about two or three weeks I should say and then a posting came through to a training aerodrome in the Orange Free State, called Kroonstad. Here the training I should say wasn’t carried out by, by RAF officers or staff. It was carried out by members of the South African Air Force. So, I had a Lieutenant Goddard as my, my tutor. Not one of the easiest of men to get on with but maybe, maybe trainee pilots do get on their instructor’s nerves sometimes. And they’re always quite outspoken. They never, they never console you. They never mince their words. If they mean one thing they say it unmistakably. And so, so after, it didn’t take long before Lieutenant Goddard and Mr [unclear] said, ‘This bloke’s alright for a solo. We can let him get on with it.’ From Kroonstad] we used to fly north for about seven or eight miles. Still in Tiger Moths. They still used Tiger Moths in South Africa. Fly north to an auxiliary airfield called Rietgat which was not much more than the highveld with a barbed wire fence around it and a hut where you could, you could shelter or food. Have your food and, or have a rest. So, after I’d done by the sense of a bit of solo in England and the solos that I went on at Rietgat and Kroonstad I’d done, I’d done ten hours solo on Tiger Moths and it was no, no great hassle at all. It was very enjoyable in fact. The, the Lieutenant Goddard got out one day, oh I should say Kroonstad was a very small area. You could get a Tiger Moth off alright provided, but it was, you had to make sure you only just cleared the fence one end and since the Tiger Moth had no brakes it just ran on and on and on and you would stop not far before you got to the fence the other end. Just enough space to rev the engine up and put full rudder on and turn around and taxi back to where the instructor was. Right. Back to Lieutenant Goddard. He got out, he said, ‘Bring it back down,’ he said, ‘Do your one solo. One solo circuit,’ he said, ‘Don’t hang about. Don’t mess about now,’ he said, ‘I want to get back to Kroonstad because I’ve got another student waiting for me.’ So he got, strapped up his control column so that it couldn’t move and I was, I was in total control. He got out. Oh he took his, no he took he took his control column out with him. You could just unscrew it and he took it out so it didn’t catch on anything, you see. So turned around. Taxied back to the take off point, opened up and off we go. Nice take off. Yes. Up, up, up and away. Around. Around. Around. Cross wind leg. Downwind leg. Cross wind leg. And turn in for the finals. And I thought to myself I’m not going to get over that bloody fence. I said, I’m too low down. So I opened up and took off and went around again. Did another circuit. Coming around the second time I thought to myself I’m going to clear that fence this time alright. And I did clear it by far too great a distance so the aircraft ran on and on and on and on and I thought this isn’t going to stop before it gets to that barbed wire fence. But fortunately it did stop. Just. The propeller still turning. Not enough space in front of me to open up the engine and put full rudder on and turn. So only one thing to do here. I undid my harness, got out, walked around to the back of the Tiger Moth. Caught hold of the, the tail skid. Pulled it backwards by main force until I thought there was enough space to take off. To open up again. Got back in. Strapped in. Back to lieutenant, and as I’d come in the last time I noticed him down in the corner of the field and he’d got his joystick in his hand and he was waving it. I thought I’ve got to get in this time. And when I got back he said, barked like that, he says, ‘Bring it back to Kroonstad,’ he said, ‘Make a good job of it because this is the last time you’re ever going to be at the controls.’ So back I went. The chief flying, I was given the chief flying instructor’s test and he agreed. Well yeah maybe he’s not the man for the job. Of course I was terribly disappointed because, well I’d failed. And I was going to have to do some other sort of job that didn’t really interest me. So, I got posted back to Pretoria which was another sort of a holding unit and they, from there they dispersed people onto navigator’s courses or bomb aimer’s courses. And after a few weeks I got posted to Port Elizabeth for elementary navigational training because navigation was in its infancy in those days. There was no electronics or anything of that sort. It was all done with charts and dividers and rulers and compasses of various sorts. And bearings and radio bearings and you had to learn about all that sort of thing and you got a test at the end. After, oh sort of meteorology that came into it as well and after about what, a month maybe there was a test. Just a theory test of course and, and I passed that all right. And the next step was to go to a South African Air Force aerodrome where you would put it all into practice and show that you could navigate an aircraft. I got posted to Port Alfred. Quite a small place down on the coast. Well as the name suggests of course, down on the coast. Pretty primitive sort of a place. Still, you were still on holiday from the hardships of life in England in wartime conditions and from there they did the training on Ansons. Avro Ansons. A sort of a workhorse of Air Forces all over the world. All over the world in fact. Avro Anson. A very, very stable reliable sort of aircraft. Never heard of any, any one of them suffering from engine failure or, or anything of that sort. You could rely on that. The pilots were South African Air Force pilots. And they took off at a time maybe two navigators and you. One would be for that particular trip the first navigator who would do all the work on the charts with the, with dividers and lines and calculations and time of arrival. And the other one obtained radio bearings for the first navigator to plot. Or with the, or visual bearings by looking out of the window and see, seeing what was down below and checking with a map that he’d got in front of him. He could see what township that was, you were over, for instance. Or using another thing called the astro compass which wasn’t a magnetic compass at all. It was more of a bearing place. He would take bearings on railway junctions and anything that would appear on his map he would keep constant check and pass the bearings to the first navigator to put on to his, on to his chart. And of course everything the first navigator did was in, in his, he had to enter up in his logbook. Without going in to much detail for instance the navigator had to work out the difference between the true airspeed, the airspeed that the pilot had got in front of him on his instrument panel but that was, that’s the higher you go, the lower you go so the air pressure’s different and it registered different. It doesn’t register the speed that you’re were actually going at. It records the speed that you’re going at through the air but not over the ground necessarily so you had to carry out an adjustment to that and tell the pilot what height, what speed you wanted to, him to put to fly at on his, on his air speed indicator. It was, it was a complicated business. It was solid, unremitting brain work. Anyway, there was nothing much to report of the, of the flying training. It was, it was all proceeding. I could cope with all that alright. Didn’t have any great difficulty and passed the, passed the practical tests and log keeping and all that sort of thing and was, by the time you’d done that you were considered qualified. And all the aircrew were guaranteed then to wear a brevet. The one wing brevet with an N in the middle for navigators. So, the picture in there. And the brevets were pinned on to a passing out parade with all due ceremony and you were given sergeant’s stripes. Yeah. That’s a bit of a sore point. Some, some were, some were given sergeant’s stripes and some were granted commissions which I thought, you know, that’s a bit, ‘How? Why didn’t I get a commission? Why do I get a sergeant’s stripes? Why did Walker, get a, why is he a pilot officer and I’m a sergeant?’ And I must have had some sort of a flaw as far as the Air Force was concerned and evidently not considered to be officer material. So it was off to the sergeant’s mess for me and so on. Sew sergeant’s stripes on, and, and sew the brevet on and wait for the next move to take place which would be back to, back to England again. Being, being qualified now and so as a navigator. Of course, back in England things had changed a bit because they were moving into the electronic age then with, with computers and a lot of the work being done by, by means such as that rather than the, rather than taking radio bearings. So it was going to need, further training was going to be needed. But the last, the last few times in the last few weeks at the, at Kroonstad while nobody was, nobody wants to make life awkward for you. You could do more or less as you pleased provided you behaved yourself. So used to go, used to go swimming and used to go to the pubs and the, the various service clubs and always welcomed. Got on very well with the South Africans. There was always a welcome from them. So my time in South Africa was, as far as relations with other people went, except for, except for Lieutenant Goddard of course, were always very cordial. So it was back to England again then on the troopship [pause] oh dear. Athlone. I think I’ve got that right. No. It was the Union Castle boat. Anyway, never mind about that. It was, it went from Durban and it was, by this time the Mediterranean had been opened up a bit. Tunisia had been, the desert had been more or less cleared and we, the ship was going to go up the east coast of Africa and up through the Red Sea and into, up through the Suez Canal. That’s right. What the, oh I was thinking of Panama, yes the Suez Canal and out in to the Mediterranean and we crossed. Went through the Mediterranean. Called in at, after leaving Durban we called in at [pause] at Kenya. What’s the city? What’s the sea port? Mombasa. Yeah. Called in at Mombasa and let off some, some South African Air Force people. Then went on. The next stop was in Tunisia. No. I’m wrong again. The next stop was in Sicily at Syracuse to let South African troops off there. Then through the Mediterranean. Through the straights of Gibraltar. Out into the Atlantic. Up round, up the coast of Portugal. Through, across the Bay of Biscay. Along the English Channel and in to the Thames Estuary and tied up at Tilbury. Yeah. So all very interesting. All very easy going. Nobody making life difficult. And you had to do a bit of duty now and again. For instance sometimes keeping you would be going up on watch and keeping watch for submarine periscopes for instance. That sort of thing. Or, or down in the, in the place where we, oh we had, sergeants had bunks. I think they were four high. Yeah. Yeah. I got the, I was unfortunate in getting the top bunk in a series of four. Which meant clambering up there. But well I didn’t mind that so much but there was a deck head light just above where my head was so the light was on all night long. But just one of those things you might say. And so back to England and on leave. No. Where did we go from England? To [pause] on leave. And I was posted up to oh yes, West Freugh which was up in Scotland. For, to complete, to carry on training in, because while navigating in South Africa being more or less open country with the odd town and village dotted about here and there in England navigating over big industrial area called for a different, different approach to the whole business. So up to West Freugh [pause] which is near the Mull of Kintyre over on the western side of the country. So most of our training flights went out westwards or, or north westwards. Out over the Irish Sea or Northern Ireland but you couldn’t go over southern Ireland of course. They were sort of a neutral country, and if you came down there you’d get interned. So you had to go up over the north of, north of Scotland and over the Ailsa Craig. Isle of Arran and places like that. And used to come back usually to the Isle of Man. And then back up back up to West Freugh again. Still in Ansons so there were still no electronics. It was still basic navigation. But as I said where the basic navigation in South Africa was very easy basic navigation in England in thick cloud or rain storms or the fact that you couldn’t see the ground or industrial areas it took more getting used to. It wasn’t an easy job. You couldn’t just look out of the window and say. ‘Oh yes. I know where we are.’ So, but not bad conditions. Air Force people I always found were inclined to treat you as, as a fellow. They, they weren’t so keen to boss you about. As long as you were carrying on doing your job and they, you let them get on and do their job and as far as training went then they were they were quite happy to accept you on a friendly basis. I lived in the sergeant’s mess and as I say everything went quite, quite nicely. A lot of the navigation was carried out by night time because, because the bomber force, proper bomber force operated mainly by night. So you had to get used to the, in the dark and not being able to see the ground. No lights. No, no street lights or anything of that sort down below. It was become, becoming acclimatised to flying in a different sort of, under different sort of conditions. So this went on ‘til, in the end after this training went on for about [pause] about three months I suppose. Yeah. Somewhere about that and you were qualified to, to proceed to the next stage of training which would be converting to heavier aircraft. The Air Force at the time was, wasn’t very well equipped with heavy aircraft. It’s the, the most reliable of all the bombers, of the bombers was the Wellington. There was, there was another one about the same size. The Armstrong Whitworth Whitley which I was unfortunate enough to draw a place where they trained on Whitleys. The Hampden wasn’t really a heavy bomber as such. They couldn’t carry a very big bomb load or go very far for that matter. The Fairey Battle was a light bomber which would only be used for dropping bombs on concentrations of enemy troops or bridges or railway junctions. That sort of thing. So from West Freugh I went on leave and, with the, with the instruction that when my leave was up I was to report to Abingdon near Oxford which was an old established Air Force aerodrome. And it, from there, well in fact there was no flying at all from there when I got there because they were just having runways made but their satellite was called Stanton Harcourt about ten miles away. And the flying took place from Stanton Harcourt in these Whitleys. Dreadful old machines. Ugly to look at. You could, they didn’t inspire you to take any pride. You could imagine men taking a pride in their Spitfires. The appearance of them gave you confidence. The Whitley didn’t give you any confidence at all. It just made you depressed to think what an ugly looking creature it was. No electronics in it of course. You got, you had to climb up but you climbed into the fuselage up a little ladder and then you made your way up a long fuselage. Then you came to the wing route, passed through the fuselage which was about two feet thick I suppose. You had to clamber over that. Work your way through a sort of a tunnel in the, in the structure, wing route structure, to get to the navigation table. And when you got there that was no great shakes because there wasn’t very much room there anyway. And you checked the escape hatches because there was, apart from the door you came in by there was only one other way out and that was a hole in, a trap door in the floor down in the nose. And to get down there you had to clamber down there. It was an awkward journey but you checked, always checked that the escape hatches, everything moved fairly freely and made sure that — no good in an emergency arriving there and you think, I can’t get this so and so handle open. Where do I go from here? So, well in particular it was the slow moving aircraft. It cruised at I suppose maybe a hundred and forty, a hundred and sixty as far as I can remember. I can’t remember exactly. Oh, I’ve missed out one thing. I can’t remember where it comes in. The formation of the crew. It must be when I came back from South Africa. Oh I’ve got to backtrack. Backtrack a little bit and go back to when I arrived at Abingdon in the first place. And there were, at any one time way a new posting when all the last lot were being cleared out all the new intake would consist of twenty pilots, twenty navigators, twenty bomb aimers, twenty radio operators, forty gunners and that was it. So, everybody was put in to one big hangar. All this lot. And the instruction was, ‘Right. We’ve got enough people here to form twenty crews for a heavy bomber.’ Twenty crews. A heavy bomber has a crew of seven, so ‘But you’ll find that you won’t have, be able to form a crew of seven because there will be no flight engineers here yet.’ Because, I’ll come back to that later. So the instruction was right the door was shut. Ok. Get busy. Sort yourselves out into crews. Into a crew. Pilot, navigator, bomb aimer, radio operator and two gunners. That’s six of you. So you sort of looked around and think oh, ‘Yeah well, what do we, where do we go from here?’ And I still can’t explain how it worked. Pilots, and you’d sort of look up and no I don’t like the look of him. Well, I’ll try that, no he’s got already fixed up. He’s got a navigator. Others were bomb aimers and so on were looking around for a likely. And then a pilot and a bomb aimer came over to me and said, ‘Are you fixed up?’ I said, ‘No. In fact, I’m not. They said, ‘Well would you like to join us?’ I said, ‘ Well yes, yes please.’ And so, so that had got one two three of us. Then he looked, or they looked or mainly the pilot doing it of course because it was his responsibility to form his own crew, to fill in the other vacancies. And so we got six of us. There was no flight engineer to make the seventh member for a heavy bomber because we were only training on Whitleys and twin-engined aircraft didn’t need a flight engineer. Four engined did but a twin-engined the pilot could look after the sort of engines himself as well as flying the aircraft. So the flight engineer would join us later. So we started off on these Whitleys. One particular flight I can remember in a Whitley. We set off from — what was the name of the place? Not [pause] what name did I say for the — not Abingdon. Anyway, we set off south westwards. You always flew away from Germany really because there was, the air space was less crowded. Set off down towards, we were routed to go down to Falmouth and over to the Scilly Islands and out into the Atlantic at some latitude and longitude point. Nothing there but just a point on the map and that was where you turned and started coming back again. So we were on our way out into the Atlantic and the weather was getting worse and worse. There was low pressure coming in which meant there was, it was coming from the southwest. Therefore the, the winds would be anti-clockwise and, and the low pressure would mean that the clouds were being forced downwards all the time. It was getting lower and lower. We couldn’t see anything down below and over the land you wouldn’t have been able to see anything else and in a Whitley that was no joke. So the pilot said, ‘I’m not going on in this,’ he says. By the way, about, I’ll come back to where I stopped in a minute. About names. The pilot was a warrant officer who had done some instructional training himself but nothing operational. The rest of us were all sergeants and, but there was never any, warrant officers they were always addressed as sir. The only non-commissioned officers were addressed as sir but he, we never addressed him as sir. Name. Our names fell into place and they were used without any hesitation. So he was, being Wilfred Bates, he wasn’t known as Wilfred. He was. We referred to when we were speaking to him as Wilf. Now, I was for some reason they balked at the Henry. They never called me Henry at all. I was known, always known as Wag. The bomb aimer, Lesley Roberts was known as Robbie. The, the mid-upper gunner was Thomas Worthington but known as Tommy. The rear gunner, Robert Thomas was known as Bob. So, and the flight engineer, when we got him, Eric Berry he was known as Berry but I was always Wag. And I didn’t, and even after that, all through the Air Force career even in, even in Germany I was always known as Waggy or Waggy. Anyway, yes the pilot said, ‘I’m not going along with this Wag,’ he said, this is absolutely pointless.’ He said, ‘I’m turning around. Give me a course back over Cornwall and back to, back to base. We got over Cornwall and the cloud cleared, lifted a little bit and there was a hole in the cloud. And I said to, I said, ‘Wilf, there’s a hole in the cloud down below. If we go down we get underneath I’ll be able to see the ground and establish my position.’ So we went down through the hole in the cloud. I established the position as Falmouth. And he said, he said, ‘Right,’ he said, ‘Now, give me a course to the nearest aerodrome. I’ve had enough of this.’ He said, ‘Where, where can we put down?’ I said, ‘Well, St Eval is the nearest.’ So the bad weather had closed in again and he said, well he said, ‘Are we going to be able to land at St Eval?’ So the radio operator got the ok and, and he got a radio bearing of the St Eval and we homed on the St Eval beam and put down there. And so that was the end of that particular flight. Stayed there and had our dinner there and by the time the afternoon wore on we could get back to, back to Abingdon again. So that was the sort of difficulties you experienced on Whitleys. No other particular Whitley flight stays in my memory. They were all humdrum sort of things but ranging far afield. Ranging far up into the, out in to the northwest. Out in to the Atlantic. Down Cornwall direction. But mostly lasting about, about five, five or six hours and it was a bit of a strain in that I was working for, with solid brain work for five or six hours. Checking temperatures, wind velocities, radio bearings. Working out the distance to the next point or turning point. Time of arrival. It’s, six hours solid brain work is pretty wearing. While the rest of the crew of course having a pretty easy time. The bomb aimer, you’d think to yourself he’d have a particularly easy time because there weren’t any. Anyway, he was, the bomb aimer at all times even operational was an assistant navigator. He could be given pieces of apparatus to work. For instance I could, on Halifaxes I could ask him to take a bearing on the, on the Gee set while I took a bearing on the air position indicator. Or the other way around because the two things needed to be done at the same time. And so while he did, I put him on to the air position indicator mostly because that was, that was the easier thing to operate and I didn’t want to overstress him let’s say [laughs]. But we worked well together. There was never any, any hassle at all. But when the time came for, I forget what took place at the end of the [pause] Abingdon was an OTU or Operational Training Unit. In the early days by the time you’d finished on Whitleys and Wellingtons you were considered to be ready to sent, be sent on operations. But with the advent of heavy bombers and the advent of new radar and radio equipment and techniques and so on it was realised that you needed a further stage to get you ready to operate heavy bombers such as the Stirling, the Halifax and Lancaster. Stirling was a disappointment. It was too heavy. It hadn’t got the weight lifting capacity. It couldn’t get up as high as the Halifaxes and Lancasters. So it didn’t do an awful lot of bombing but it had other uses such as, they could do glider towing, jamming enemy radar and that sort of thing. But you needed, but for operational bombing, bombing just meant dropping bombs and causing as much damage as you could to the German war effort the, the crews needed a further training. So other units, new units were set up called Heavy Conversion Units. HCU. And the one I went to. Oh, I went to was at Snaith up in Yorkshire. Not far from, not far from Doncaster. And [pause] have I got this right? No. No, the squadron was, sorry, the one I went to was at Swanton Morley. No. That’s not correct. That’s down by Abingdon isn’t it? Oh dear. Oh dear. Could you turn it off?
[recording paused]
The Heavy Conversion I went to was at Marston Moor near York. This was in 4 Group and they would be flying Halifaxes from there because 4 Group flew only Halifaxes. And Lancasters went to 3 Group which was further South Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire. So we were converting on to, on to the four-engined Halifax and of course we would need a flight engineer. And that’s where Eric Berry joined us to make up the seven man crew. So the aircraft themselves were, well they were what the Americans referred to as war weary. They’d done their whack. They’d been damaged possibly. Repaired. They’d served their time and they weren’t in the most reliable condition but the ground staff did a wonderful job keeping them flyable and usable anyway. So we got our seven crew now and we’re ready to start genuine bombing, Bomber Command training. This incorporated the use of new equipment as well, because by this time Gee, the Gee set had been fitted into all bomber aircraft. I should explain that the Gee set was, relied on transmissions from the ground from three stations. A slave station, an A station and a B station and these were transmitted and they could be picked up by the Gee set receiver in a bomber and the, which the navigator worked of course and by taking, he could get his bearings off there. He could get his position off there and plot these bearings as he got the information that he got on the Gee set on to a special map that he’d got on his navigation table. And he could establish your position to within a quarter of a mile. Later on, over the Ruhr to within a quarter of a mile. In my estimation, over England it was even better than that. It was spot on to, to within a hundred yards or so. So it was amazing. Night time, thick cloud, no view of the ground, no view of the stars. No view of anything at all in fact. And you could establish your position to within a hundred yards. Marvellous. So I could get my position off the, off the Gee set. At the same time I’d get the air position from the bomb aimer, plot the two of them, join those two up and I’d got the wind direction and speed. So I could look ahead. I could plan my course to the next turning point knowing that the wind velocity would be different because of course as you fly through a weather system whether a cyclone or an anti-cyclone the wind direction and, no not the velocity the wind direction is certainly going to change and you’ve, you can, you need to constantly update your knowledge of what the wind velocity is and maybe even look ahead and in your own brain build in a few degrees extra to compensate for the change that you know is going to carry on happening. It was all, it all sounds a bit vague but it became second nature in time. If I got the bearing that I wanted, that I wanted the aircraft to fly to to get to the next turning point or the target or whatever I’d work out, work it out on the chart and then add on or take off a few degrees as to whether I thought the wind was veering or backing. So a little bit of brain work had to come in extra off the cuff. And there were other things to think of too. When you were approaching a turning point if there was, if it was a sharp, suppose you were coming up and then turning on to making a sort of a sharp turn to the next turning point it was no good telling the pilot there, ‘Turn on to that next course,’ because he would be, he would do that. You had to tell him half a minute before so that he could get the aircraft onto a turn ready to come onto that correct line that you’d got on your chart. So even with all the aids and so on it was still not nothing that you could sit back and leave it to, leave it to the machinery to do. But no. In later days I used to, this is not all that long, well yes it is. It’s maybe ten, maybe twenty years ago now I used to teach navigation at the Wisbech Air Training Corps and we used to go over to get, you used to go over to Marham at times where they had, what was the — ?
Other: Chipmunks or something.
HW: Hmmn?
Other: Chipmunks were they there, Henry. There.
HW: The large aircraft that they had. A Victor.
Other: Oh the Victor or the [unclear]
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: Oh yes the V days.
HW: And to show the lads what the navigational equipment’s like and we had the station navigation officer would conduct us round and show us around the aircraft and then show us the navigation system and he’ll say, he’ll say, ‘You see, you’ve got, in a Victor you’ve got two navigators. One is the navigator radar who takes all the bearings and the other is the navigator plotter who plots it all on the charts and works out the new courses.’ So, you see the equipment changing like that in techniques and tactics have to change to keep up with it. It was, they were always very supportive. I said to the navigator, a plotter and then the navigator radar, I said, How often do you need to take bearings?’ He said, ‘Well about every, about every ten minutes or so. I said, ‘Well what do you do in the meantime then?’ He said, ‘Well. Read a book.’ [laughs] And they, the navigator, these two navigators at their combined navigation table they were facing back into the, towards the tail of the aircraft and right by the side — suppose this is, suppose you are sitting at the navigation table and the door, the entry door is in the fuselage was just to the right of the navigation table. So what happened in an emergency was that the pilot would do whatever’s necessary to get that door open or, or ejected. I don’t know what they did. Whether they, but anyway the two navigators were standing or siting handy and all they had to do was stand up, take a couple of steps to the right and they were out of the door because they were on parachute seats you see. Or they had parachute packs on. But yes. Tactics changed. Now where had we got to? Back to, back to Marston Moor I think. Yes. Well, there’s not much more to say about Marston Moor. Oh well, yeah. The favourite pub. I used to go out for some reason with the mid-upper gunner. I don’t know why I used to go with him in particular. Perhaps he was a good drinker [laughs] perhaps he was the best drinker. We took, got station bikes and we used to bike up to Tockwith. Up near Selby anyway. And I might be — anyway we got the station bicycles and we used to go up to this pub which was in a little village and it wasn’t near an operational Air Force station but used to get quite a few ground staff. It seemed to be a favourite one for ground staff. There was no electricity laid on. The stone flagged floor, the deal tables and the two landladies both, both pretty old, wore clothes entirely of black. Long black dresses and hair done up in buns and so on. They’d bring out, when it got dark bring out Aladdin lamps which worked like primus stoves. You could pump them up and they would provide the illumination. They’d bring those out and put them on the table and a singsong would develop. And the, one of the favourite one I can remember was, “Knees Up Mother Brown.” And one of the landladies, when prompted would always get up on the table and we would all sing, “Knees Up Mother Brown,” and she would caper about on the table. And she must have been in her eighties anyway. So, and but everybody got on well. I mean there were a lot of WAAFs there. There must have been a station where they needed, perhaps a clerical station of some sort. I don’t know but there were a lot of WAAFs there. But there was no standing on ceremony. No ranking or anything of that sort. We were all in there for a booze up so that was it. And then chucking out time. Chucking out time in those days was very rigid.
Other: 10 o’clock.
HW: Yeah. Chucking out time was at 11 o’clock. No. Chucking out time. If you stayed after chucking out time the landlady or landlord could be prosecuted for allowing drinking out of hours. So a quarter of an hour before chucking out time they’d give you, give you a warning. They’d ring a bell like a ships bell. And you knew if you wanted another pint to get one now and drink it in a quarter of an hour. And the police used to hover around outside pubs to check that there wasn’t any drinking after hours. They’d come in and have a look. So anyway.
[recording paused]
HW: So, after Heavy Conversion Unit at Marston Moor we were now a fully qualified operational aircrew. Fit to be set loose against the Germans. So posting took place then to, to individual bomber squadrons. From Marston Moor of course being in 4 Group we knew we were going to be on Halifaxes and our crew under Warrant Officer Bates was posted to Snaith which was near Doncaster. This was only a wartime aerodrome. It wasn’t it, wasn’t a pre-war one like with the, with the big buildings, comfortable buildings. It only had Nissen huts, wartime hangars, runways had been laid of course because heavy bombers heavily loaded needed, they needed a hard surface. They didn’t want, no good having them sinking in to soft mud in the winter time. Heavy Lancaster and a Halifax were almost exactly the same from the performance point of view. So I won’t differentiate between them. The weight of a heavy bomber fully loaded was sort of the aircraft itself, bombs, petrol, the crew and all that. The whole, the whole lot weighed some thirty tons. The take-off weight was about thirty tons so obviously you don’t need you need you don’t need soft earth underneath a thirty tonne weight so Snaith did at least have runways. The buildings themselves were sergeant’s mess, comfortable enough and nobody hassled you at all. Nobody bothered you. If operations weren’t on you were, the navigators used to head for the navigation section really and you could read over there or you could, you could talk to other people over there. You could look up info. Get any new information. You could make yourself a cup of coffee over there. It was it was easy going. You were accepted by the station navigation officer as a fully qualified navigator and from that point of view you were on the same footing as he. Sorry. On the same footing as he was. He was running the place, yes but from the navigational point of view you were on the same level and he accepted you as such. Right. So, to start with we did a few cross-country’s on the, on the Halifaxes at Snaith. You didn’t have our own particular aircraft. You used what aircraft was, that aircraft was available. Some pilots did have their own aircraft but we never got around to that. So we did cross-countrys of about some, about eight hours each. Long, long cross-countrys using new navigational equipment. One, I still used Gee but there had been a new one developed called [pause] oh dear, my memory’s getting something dreadful. Sorry. Maybe it’ll come back to me in a minute or two. Yeah. It’s come back to me now. H2S. H2S. You’ll say well that’s that’s the chemical formula for sulferated hydrogen isn’t it? That smells like, well politeness. Anyway, there you go. And with the people, the person who created, christened it H2S said yes, sulferated hydrogen. This H2S, like the sulferated hydrogen it stinks. So he hadn’t thought much of it. But it worked on a different system. The Germans could jam Gee because it depended on signals being sent out. Being sent out from Britain. H2S depended on signals being sent out by each aircraft itself. It had a revolving scanner underneath which as it went around it projected electronic beams and the Germans could pick those up so if you put the H2S on, if everybody had the H2S on then the Germans would have plenty of bearing. Oh, there’s an aircraft there. Look there’s another. There’s another. And so I preferred to switch, not to use H2S if possible. It was very useful over the coast but because beams projected by the H2S if they, if they came down from the aircraft and hit a building they were reflected back up to the aircraft itself which was acceptable. If they, if they went over and hit the sea they were reflected off that. They just went up and on their way so you could see what was sea clearly and you could see what was buildings clearly. So near coastlines or in estuaries or near big rivers it was useful but another reason why I didn’t leave it on for very long was that the German fighters realising that H2S were, transmissions were being made by bombers they developed a radar for their own fighters. Developed a radar where if you switched on your H2S he could, the German fighter pilot looking at his, looking at his radar would say, ‘There’s one over there. Right,’ And home in on him and creep on him gradually without him being aware of the fact. So, so that’s why I preferred to not to. Anyway, Gee was a better bet. It was a safer bet. But, but so the German pilots started, they started using their, their radar. They’d take a quick look. See an H2S transmission and then head in that direction and switch off. And then they’d take another quick peep. And so they kept, they kept just taking a peep so they knew they were going in the right general direction. So Bomber Command developed a piece of apparatus which overrode the German pilot switch and switched on his radar and left it switched on. He couldn’t switch it off. So, so it was a constant battle back and forth, back and forth. Something was developed, a counter was found. Something else. And so everything that was developed something was developed to, to neutralise it. So, right. The first two, the first two operations I went on. The first one, they were both daylight in fact and the first one was extremely easy. It was to a small town just just over the German border which the Germans at that time, the German border with France that is, the Germans had just been moved back out of France to a town called Soest, S O E — no. I’ve got it wrong. Julich. J U L I C H. And that was, they were using that as a garrison town and a reinforcement town and they were bringing their, back their rear troops up and to that town. That was their focal point and they were dispersing them along to wherever was necessary. So it only meant that we were over German held territory for about ten minutes or so which was, well it was a bonus. And of course the Germans hadn’t got their heavy anti-aircraft fire properly organised because it was too near the battlefront. The heavy anti-aircraft armament was near the big cities. So there was very little flak and we were able to fly in at a low, a low height of twelve thousand feet. We dropped our bombs at twelve thousand feet. The bomb load was normally the same. Normally about, about five tons. Something like that. A mixture. And maybe a two thousand pounder. A couple of thousand pounders, a few five hundred pounders, incendiaries if it was a target that would burn. So we dropped our bombs in. Dropped our bombs in Dropped our bombs, turned around, back home again and it was all over in no time. No hassle. Just across country in effect. Although Lancasters were attacking a town further south called Düren and looking out at the time when we were over our target I saw a Lancaster blow up over there. Just a big explosion. Anyway, the next one was, the next operation was at Munster which is in the north of, well it’s north of the Ruhr anyway. It’s not in a big industrial area. It’s, I don’t know what reason it was being attacked for but also a daylight and the opposition — very little in the way of opposition. Not very much flak. Not very — no fighters seen. It was it was a piece of cake again. I should say for anti-aircraft fire, light anti-aircraft fire was, was something to be reckoned with up to ten thousand feet. From there onwards it went on to 88 millimetre flak where the, with the cells bursting from there. Bursting at whatever height they’d been fused for. At any height up to over twenty thousand feet. So there were those two sorts of flak. They could and the opposition from German fighters, they were armed with cannon which shot, which fired a sort of a pattern. Their, their machine, their cannon belts were made up the same as their machine guns and the same as ours I think. In groups of five. We had in our machine gun bullets belts. We had two ball ammunition. Ordinary bullets. Two ball. One armour piercing, one incendiary and one tracer. So, so those, those groups of five as the gunner was operating his machine guns these, these were passing through in blocks of five. Tracers so as you could see where they were going. Red incendiaries so that they would set the, set the, perforate the petrol tanks, set the aircraft on fire. On fire. Also armour piercing and the two ball for general havoc. Anyway, that was Munster. And as I say then after that the remaining six that I did, I did eight altogether, the remaining six were all on heavy industrial targets. All, all in the Ruhr. Yeah. That vast German industrial complex. And they were at the, it was, it was a complex of so many cities that the whole thing merged together into one sort of a general area. They were cities like Duisburg, Essen, Cologne and so on. They were so much joined together. They were separate cities as well. So the, so much built joined together that bombs could safely be dropped there and they were going to do some damage. We were targeted on factories. Steelworks. Coking plants. Electricity supply places. Aircraft factories. Transport factories. Railway junctions and marshalling yards. That sort of thing. But as I say we were given that. That point. And that’s what we’d set the bomb, the bomb aimer would set his bombsights up according to that information. But even if you missed your target you were still going to, you were still going to bomb out some workers or were going to cause damage, houses. And really the amount of labour that was needed, was caused, with the amount of workers that Germany had to keep in Germany because of the depredations of Bomber Command. That gets entirely overlooked. Because when you come to think of it you’ve got to keep the firemen at home haven’t you? Fire brigades. You’ve got to keep the gunners, the anti-aircraft gunners there. You’ve got to keep the hospitals staffed and working. You’ve got to keep the population fed. You’ve got to, you’ve got to clear all bomb damage. All the rubble and so on. You’ve got to keep the lorries available for doing that. You’ve got, it’s just the amount of labour that Bomber Command caused to be held at home instead of being used in the actual ground fighting. And also, of course their fighters. They needed fighters to attack Bomber Command and so many fighters that could be used on the front line had to be held at home. And it’s generally overlooked what an enormous contribution, apart from the damage to the German factories and so on occasionally the sidelining damage that was done, caused by Bomber Command is, well you just, you see pictures of cities that have been bombed and you don’t realise then the amount of work that has gone to clearing that lot. Of course, as far as bomber crews were concerned the greatest fear was coming down in a parachute over a city that you were in the process and in fact you could get, well, down, well land in the city and be killed by bombs dropping from your own lot. So that was the greatest fear. Bomb. The large cities were covered by mainly by a ring, not a complete ring, by a belt of anti-aircraft fire. They knew that the bombers would be coming from the west so they got there. They had a ring of heavy anti-aircraft guns and, and then if over the target itself they didn’t, not so much heavy anti-aircraft guns the fighters would roam in that area. So they had the bombers had to contend with the anti-aircraft fire, collision with other aircraft because there were so many coming in at any one time. The risk of collision was very great. Bombs dropping from other aircraft flying a bit higher up than you were. The chances of trouble were only all too present. So back to, so you could you got the, you were on the final leg. Imagine now we’re on a final leg to the target of the Krupps Steel Works at Essen. The biggest industrial, the most concentrated industrial area in Germany and obviously of prime importance. So we’re on the run up. About ten minutes before we get there the bomb aimer says to me, ‘I’ll get my bombsights set up and all ready,’ because he guided the pilot in over markers laid by Pathfinder Force just previously. If they were visible. If not he’d have to use his bombsight. The information as he’d already keyed in to his bombsights as to where to drop the bombs. But of course it wouldn’t be so accurate but as I say any damage was beneficial to us, so we’re on the money. So about, so he lies down in front of his bombsight and he’s got, he’ll say to the pilot about a minute before, ‘Bomb doors open.’ And then he’ll guide the pilot up and he’ll be saying to him, ‘Left. Left. Left. Steady. Steady. Steady. Right. Right. Steady. Steady. Steady. Steady. Bombs gone.’ And then he’d have to fly on. We’d have to fly on, on that same course for a half a minute because it took that long for the bombs to get, to get down to the ground because in that half minute, when that half minute was up the cameras in the aircraft would photograph the point of impact. And so when we got back home, I mean you might not be able to see very much, just, just a lot of fires and just a lot of rubble but anyway that was a draw. Fly on half a minute and then after that turn for home. And the route home could be a bit more direct. On the way out it had to be a bit, not straightforward with a good sort of different legs in it so the Germans wouldn’t know, wouldn’t say oh yes he’s heading for Osnabruck. They’d say, well he’s heading towards the Ruhr. Yeah. And then in fact it looks as if it goes to be a bit the northern section of the Ruhr. So they get their fighters up there waiting and then the bomber force would turn and go down. Everything was done to try and confuse them. To catch their forces often by some sort of offbeat move. Army Co-operation Command used to fly Mosquitoes. What was it? Who’s flying Mosquitoes. Bomber Support Group. They used to patrol in Mosquitoes over German airfields, fighter airfields and catch any coming in to land or prevent any taking off and just, just make life impossible for them so they’d hang about. Bomber Support Group they were a great help in that. As I say various, many moves were made to try to, to try to reduce losses as much as possible. Anyway, so we did eight. As I say the eighth trip, all the others had been on the industrial areas of the Ruhr except for one Osnabruck which was nothing special to say about that. The, the eighth trip we were down for, marked down for an attack on Duisburg. Yes. Well ok we’d been there before. No big deal. So all the flight planning was taking place at briefing by the station commander of why we were going there in the first place. The navigation officer, the, the meteorological officer, the bombing leader, and they would all give information as their, the people they were talking to needed to know. So, so and then the station commander comes on, ‘Well, there you are lads. Off you go. Give them a good pasting won’t you?’ Or sometimes he said, ‘Well I shall be coming with you tonight lads so watch out. I’ve got my eye on you.’ That sort of thing. It was all done in a good humoured sort of way. And many a commanding officer failed to return from this. You know, it just, it was the luck of the gods. An anti-aircraft shell could hit him as well as somebody who was on their first trip. So, it was, it was so much was a matter of luck. Some hundred thousand men flew with Bomber Command and of those figures vary a little bit from here and there but some fifty seven thousand were killed. So over half were killed. So the chances of — you had to do thirty trips. That was called a tour. And if you did your thirty trips you got rested for six months and sent to Heavy Conversion Units or something like that to carry on. To give training. And then you come back for another twenty trips. So with fifty trips to do and the loss rate being on average four percent fifty trips tells me that in twenty five you’ve had your lot. If you survived any beyond the twenty five you were lucky. If you, if you get caught in less than twenty five you can’t complain. And of course some figures vary again. Some, I think, I think it was some, no I’m not, I have the figure of four thousand in mind but it must be higher than that were shot down and taken prisoner survived and came down by parachute or crash landed and got taken prisoner. I’m not sure about the figure there. Anyway, to come back to the last trip to Duisburg the weather forecast was supposed to be, oh the meteorological officer said it was reasonable. The forecast wasn’t all that bad. ‘You should be fairly, there will be rain storms at times but it should have cleared over the target by the time you get there. You may have a bit of difficulty with the weather but it’s not enough to, to cancel the operation. So be prepared for a bit of rough weather.’ But the weather, as I said it was part of the navigator’s job to calculate wind velocity and direction and the first, as soon as we were airborne and set course and we were, got up to a reasonable height and I checked the wind velocity I thought this is nowhere near. This is far stronger than, than was forecast. We were forecast for twenty thousand feet somewhere about forty knots. You know the difference between a knot and a [laughs] about forty knots and the further, the one that I calculated at twenty thousand feet was a hundred and two knots. Which would be about a hundred and ten statute miles an hour and so the force became widely scattered. Nobody, I think some navigators thought to themselves, ‘No. A hundred and two? A hundred and two? No. I’ve made a mistake somewhere. Go back. Use the Met forecast.’ Where others would think — ‘Yeah, I made a bit of a mistake. Let’s say, let’s say eight knots.’ So it just caused widespread confusion. So, and by the time we arrived over the target there was no sign of any target marking at all. So the, as we were, as we approached I gave the bomb aimer the aiming point position to put on his bombsight and he dropped his bombs according to that. And, and we turned away and headed, well we did the extra half minute which we were supposed to do and took a photograph of nothing at all in fact. And then turned for home and so we were heading it’s not all that far from the Ruhr to the German border in fact. But that was where the Germans fighters were. They caught on to the fact that the target had been, most aircraft had seemed to drop their bombs over in the Duisburg area and now they’ll be heading roughly north west back for England again. So, and, and one caught us. We turned away and were going quite nicely. Everything seemed to be in order for an orderly return to England. It was the only worry would be with the wind at a hundred and two knots are we going to have the fuel to get there? But anyway you keep going as long as you can. Just bear that one in mind. But so everything seemed to be going alright. Everything was in working order and then a call came through on the intercom, on the intercom [pause] Yeah. Yeah. ‘Corkscrew left. Corkscrew left.’ And you were familiar with the corkscrew of course and it would be going, it would be going and so it meant that one of the gunners. Mid-upper probably. I don’t know. You can’t tell. Had seen a, had spotted a German fighter and he knew he was positioning for an attack. So there was a spiral and, and then and then as the German fighter was manoeuvred further that turned into a diving turn. Diving turn left. Did I say corkscrew right?
Other: No. Corkscrew left.
HW: Corkscrew left. Oh, well there would be a diving turn to the right and so on and the other way round depending which side the German fighter was attacking from. There were two types of German fighter. There was the Junkers 88, a twin-engined one which had a pilot, upward firing cannon which, which of course cannon fired explosive shells. It could. We had no downward looking radar because our downward looking radar was called Monica. The German fighters were homing on to that so that wasn’t used any more. Then he could come along underneath undetected, match his speed with the speed of the bomber fix his, sight his cannon on the precise spot he was going to fire at. And then, as I said the wing tanks were the favourites. Yeah. The other method was by and there were more of these than Junkers 88 was a Messerschmitt 110 which had a crew of three. Which had a crew of two, err a crew of three. The pilot, a radar operator and a gunner. And so the, his method of attack was that he would stand up high up and to one side or another. Usually to the right, to the bomber’s going that way he would be to the bomber’s right hand side and behind because his speed was going to be greater than the one and he was, he could pick his point. If the bomber, if the bomber the bomber was flying sort of straight and level he would come down and aim at the spot that he wanted to set on fire. He could open fire with his cannons and the machine gunner in the turret could use the, could use the machine guns and the, the radar operator of course was carrying out his order. I have in my possession the, the fighter pilot’s report of the aircraft, of three aircraft who, which shot down bombers at that, around about that area and that time. And I’ve got the full report of each pilot and his gunner and his radar operators as well in German and of course I’ve had those, I’ve got photocopies of those and so I know the name of the blighter that shot us down. And I thought, I’ve had them translated into English of course but, but I thought to myself at the time, or well I hope they get those [pause ] and then I thought — no. No. Not fair. They’re only doing their duty the same as we are. You couldn’t, the only thing I’ve got against them is that they succeeded [laughs] So, so, ok our wing tanks were on fire. The engineer standing just behind the pilot says, ‘Wilf, we’re on fire.’ And I looked back up, up the stair from my position down in the nose and I could see a roaring mass of flame just behind the, where the, where the wing root was because burning petrol came swilling into the fuselage. Through the, through the wing root and of course also that was where the oxygen bottles were stored and they got, they’d have gone off like bombs themselves. A nearly the empty petrol tank was going to explode like a bomb and the, oh the burning petrol coming into the fuselage would have so weakened the main spar that it would have just melted. So it was obvious that nothing could be done. The pilot had no hesitation in giving the order and every member of the crew immediately he gave the order, ‘Jump. Jump.’ it was — I was the first one to answer, ‘Navigator jumping.’ And, and then I could get off. Each person had to acknowledge in turn that they’ve heard. That they had heard. If anybody was too, was badly injured and couldn’t move he would say on his intercom and the pilot would, if possible but what can you do if a chap can’t? It was as much as a man could do to look after himself without dealing with other people as well. So, ‘Navigator jumping.’ Off with the helmet and oxygen mask and intercom microphone and kick a leg away, the legs of the navigation table which was on the, on the port wall and it just flopped down against the wall. When I stood up my seat which was attached to the starboard wall was on springs and it just folded itself up when I stood up. So I left a big open space. There was a trap door on the floor. About, about what shall we say? Three feet by two possibly. All I had to do was bend down, turn a handle in that trap door, raise it, when you’ve got it about the vertical you can lift it off its hinges. So I lifted that, lifted it off its hinges, turned it diagonally and dropped it through. Dropped it through the hole and there was a big open space with me [knocking sound] ready to go. So all I had to do was just slip through. And the others, the bomb aimer should have been, why he didn’t come next I just don’t know. But then the radio operator would have been the third out through that hatch. The other crew members would get out where ever they could in fact. So as I stood on the front, on the, on the edge of this hole, the front edge of this hole facing backwards. Not facing into the slipstream you understand. Facing backwards. As I dropped through so my parachute pack which was on my chest caught on the front of the, the exit hatchway. Caught on the front and lifted it up. Up above my head. So I had to reach up behind my back. Try and pull it down. Pull it down a bit. The escape, the handle on the parachute pack was facing backwards of course, it had flopped up. Facing back. Pulled that big metal ring and it, it released the little pilot chute inside. A little parachute which was on springs so that little parachute sprang open and as the air got in it it got into the slipstream so it took, pulled out the main canopy of the parachute and so and then once the, once the air got into that main canopy then, then that was ok. It was opened and you were on the safe side. But, but I thought after, after falling for, well not very long, a few seconds I saw the flashes of lightning, thunder. You don’t get thunderstorms in December. I thought — no. That’s not, it’s not thunderstorms. It’s anti-aircraft shells bursting [laughs] I dropped through that lot fairly quickly. So, but it was an easy enough descent by that time but my main worry was that I knew that the when the air, when I jumped out of the aircraft it was behind British lines in, in Holland. The Germans had just been pushed back across the River Maas and they, the British forces were up to one bank of the Maas and the Germans, well they’d moved back a few miles from the river into, into safe territory. We were going to have to cross the River Maas somehow too if we were ever going to get into Germany. So that was the Germans. So we moved back till so we got a good gunnery range in front of us and if they tried to cross we got them. But I knew quite well that on the average if the wind was a hundred and two knots or a hundred and two miles an hour or down to a hundred and ten miles an hour on the way down —suppose at ground level it’s forty miles an hour so that means, that means sort of, that means that the average wind speeds from my descent is going to take, I’m going to, it’s going to take me from fourteen thousand feet. It’s going to take me about a quarter of an hour to get down. And in a quarter of an hour I’m going to drift fifteen miles anyway. So if I drift fifteen miles I’m going to cross the River Maas and drift about twelve miles into German territory. So if the wind had been an east wind of course, the other way around that would have been me home and dry. But the west northwest wind, it was taking me over fifteen miles on my parachute. I thought that’s a bit much really and, but as I said well I could say to myself this is what’s going to happen. There’s no good whingeing about it so, but I’ve got to be ready. And getting near the ground I couldn’t see because it was raining at the time as well and it’s, there were no lights of any sort. This was about 6 o’clock in the morning and so it wasn’t really light. It was, it was just beginning to get light. And I came down through the branches of an apple tree or it might have been a plum tree for all I know. I wasn’t in any position to assess the fruiting capabilities of the tree. Came down through this tree and hit the ground. Now the instructions were when you hit the ground, when you, when you come down by parachute in enemy territory you’ve got to, the first thing you do is roll your parachute and hide it. Well mine was draped over the top and tangled up in the branches of the tree so I thought well that one’s not on. I couldn’t roll my parachute up and hide it. Furthermore, on looking up at the, it was in the back garden of a house this tree. And looking up at the bedroom windows I saw a curtain apart and a face looked out like that. There was no good hanging around here. I took my Mae West life jacket off and threw that, yeah I still had it on coming down. And threw that down and headed down the side of the house out through the front gate. Realised I was in a little village but with houses well scattered. It wasn’t, it wasn’t packed together. I turned left. Why I turned left. One way’s as good as the other I suppose. And I heard marching feet so I turned the other way [laughs] walked about, oh about a quarter of a mile through the village and out into the open fields. A German soldier was walking down the road towards me and I thought, I just said to him as I went past, ‘Morgen,’ [laughs] and he said, ‘Morgen,’ and he went on his way. He, he was on the same bit as me. If I don’t cause him any trouble he won’t cause me any. So I went on my way and by this time it was almost broad daylight. I kept clear of roads as far as possible and walking across country my plan was to walk. Walk southwards in to occupied France, no France wasn’t occupied then. Walk north westwards, get up behind, because our forces were in Holland. This was about the time of Arnhem. Walk around. If I’m clear around that corner and hide up in, in Holland. Wait till the German advance over, overtook the British sorry the British advance overtakes me and I’ll be free again. So that was the general intention. Walk northwest. Right. So I’ve got his far. Almost broad daylight. It was cold. I was wet. Still suffering I suppose a bit of shock about the turn that events had taken. But in this barn I noticed that there was a ladder leading up to the loft. And I went up. I thought that’s a good place to hide. Walked up the ladder, went up the ladder, found it was full of hay. Oh yes. Comfortable as well. Took off the wet flying suit which was no point in doing really. I thought I’ll stuff that with hay but that wasn’t, looking back I was, that was futile. But anyway I’ll get a bit of sleep. So I managed to drift off. Oh I examined what I had to assist me. I’d got, I’d got what we called a Pandora’s Box. It was a little, a little plastic box. Fairly thin. Maybe, maybe about six inches wide and four inches tall and, and bent around like that so that it would fit nicely inside the, the flying, the thigh pocket on your flying suit. So I had that. I had, and in it there were Horlicks tablets, barley sugars, chewing gum. I don’t know why chewing gum. Energy tablets. Water for your purifying tablets, rubber water bottle like a, like a football bladder in fact. A compass. I don’t remember anything else — oh money. I must admit I can’t remember the other thing. Oh a map. Yeah. A map, printed on silk of the area that we were flying over. And so, so I rationed myself to two barley sugars a day and four Horlicks tablets and I thought that I’d got to make that last a week. If by the end of the week if there’s no hope of anything else I’ll have to chuck it in. So, so, so after that there was, there was nothing else. I had no — oh yes. Yes I did. I had a, always carried inside my flying suit a 38 Webley revolver. Aircrew were allowed to draw revolvers if they wanted them. You didn’t have to but if you wanted one because there were stories about what had happened. I don’t know whether they’re authentic or not but stories about aircrew coming down in areas that had been bombed and getting strung up on lamp posts and shot and beaten with iron bars and so on. I thought to myself if I get a crowd converging on me there’s one in this six shot. One for myself but five of them are coming with me. So, you know, I had that as well. So I used to, I’d walk by night time then to avoid detection and find somewhere to hide up for the day. Sleep for the day. Once I’d dug out the — some straw out of a, like a haystack but it was straw stacks so it was fairly loose. I dug out a hole. Burrowed in there and I was hidden. Well hidden for the day and fairly warm as well. Another time I was approaching a farm house. Well it was open country but as I said I always stuck to open country if possible. In open country, but it looked a bit dilapidated. I thought I don’t know. I thought surely nobody lives there. I thought if there’s nobody lives there it would be a good place to hide up. So I walked up the bit of a path to the door, front door and as I as I got almost to the door the door opened. An old German lady looked out with a little girl standing, standing beside her. The little girl about three years old I suppose. I should think she was the, her husband was probably called up. This was their, their — she would be this child’s grandmother. That’s what I’m trying to, I’m trying to say. And she was white haired and wore glasses and so on. And she looked at me and there’s me standing there with a six shot revolver. I thought [laughs] I thought, poor old soul. I thought put it away again. I felt a real heel threatening an old German lady with a revolver. Anyway, she, sorry, sorry she beckoned me inside and she gave me a slice of bread and an apple and a drink of milk. And so, so then I left her. I went out. She, she said, ‘Herr Paulsen come. Herr Paulsen come.’ I didn’t know who Herr Paulsen was but I thought well I don’t want to know anybody who’s got H E R R in front of their name so I left her to it and, but it was broad daylight then. I walked about. I hid up as soon as I could in a copse full of wet brambles and so on, and blackberry bushes and that sort of thing. And so that’s how I spent the rest of that day. On we walks. Nothing else much too report really. Another time, getting, about four or five days [pause] yeah, yeah about, about four, about five days I was getting lightheaded by that time with nothing. Nothing to eat except these few tablets. There were no crops in the fields. No fruit in the fields or anything of that sort. I was getting lightheaded. Not thinking clearly. I came to a railway embankment and I thought, oh yeah, there was no, no level crossing or anything of that sort but I’ve got to climb over that thing. Up and over and down the other side. I thought — no. No. What am I doing? All I’ve got to do is climb up on to the track, walk along the track until I come to a station, buy a ticket and get back home again. So after about a quarter of a mile or so I must have come to myself. No. What the hell am I doing? Then I got down off the track. I went on my way. So then the night after that, still hungry and not thinking very clearly instead of sticking to the fields, this was night time of course, I always walked at night. Walking I walked down the main road of the village intending to sort of be through and out the other side. But unfortunately as I walked, stumbling along by this time I heard, ‘Halt verdacht.’ Oh blimey. And a click of a rifle bolt. And I thought oh well there you go. I said, I know little bit of German. I don’t know how I come by it but the odd word or two. I got this, ‘Halt,’ and the click of the rifle bolt and I said ‘Ich binn, ich binn ein Englisher flieger’ and that’s, that was enough German. He said, he said, he’d got the rifle bolt, he said, ‘Hände hoch.’ I got that, ‘Put your hands up.’ And then he said, he said get the order right oh yeah he had a dugout nearby with, with a little a fire. A stove, inside. That was his sentry post in fact. He said, ‘Komm.’ And he walked along behind me and he, he said ‘Ein, ein’ I thought or something which obviously meant in. Get inside. So I went inside and there was a bunk in there and floor boards and this sort of wood burning stove. And that was where he, that was his sentry post and, and he didn’t quite know what, sort of, what to do next. I said, I don’t know if my German was correct or not. I said with, one hand like that said, ‘Ich habe hier eine pistole.’ I don’t know what the German is for pistol. Do you?
Other: No [laughs]
HW: Anyway, but he got the meaning meant something. He said, ‘Ah,’ I put my hand back up a bit. He said, ‘Ah,’ he said and he mimed it [pause] and said, ‘Langsam. Langsam,’ which I gathered meant ‘slowly.’ He said, what he was meaning was take it out and put it on the table but slowly. No sudden movement like that or else you get, that’s your lot. So after that was done he gave me some of his bread, some of his rations and some bread and some pate that also went with it and a drink of coffee out of his, acorn coffee it would have been of course, out of his, out of a flask and I had to wait until he said, he motioned that I should take off my wet flying suit and lay it down over in front of the, in front of his heater and that I should lie on the floor and if, he made the sign that people that make when they’re going to sleep. His hand beside the side of his head inviting me to go to sleep in the warmth and that. So I thought what a decent old bloke. He doesn’t want any trouble. I’m in shape to give him any trouble so let’s take it from there. So I went to sleep. Proper sleep I’d had for a long time. And then the next morning his relief arrived from a nearby German aerodrome. There was a German aerodrome I found out later at a town called Alpen. It was a fighter aerodrome. Yeah. A fighter aerodrome. And it was about, poss about three miles. Something like that away. And I was going to get taken by the, by my old, my old friend, he was by that time. I was going to get taken over back to Alpen Aerodrome and handed over in to official German custody. So I was lucky really in because I’ve heard of people since the war. People who’d been handed over to the police, the ordinary civilian police who usually worked hand in glove with the Gestapo. I got, I was going to be handed over to the Service. And not just army but my own type of Service — the Air Service, as well. So I struck it lucky. So when we got [pause]
[recording paused]
HW: Ok. So I walked with this, with this German guard I suppose. He was an old chap really. Like an English home guard. And he took me to Alpen, this German fighter aerodrome. I was taken into the officer’s mess there and was obviously a sort of a curio to them in there for them to see one of the individuals that they had been fighting against. They were interested in my flying clothing in particular. Particular flying boots. A lambswool flying, lined flying boots. And the, well all the flying equipment really. None of them could speak English and I couldn’t speak German but one of them could speak French. And I could. He asked me questions in French. I answered him in French and then he translated it into German for all his mates. So one of the questions he, he said. ‘How many times have you been over Germany?’ I said this was the eighth time. He said, ‘Only eight times?’ He said, ‘I have been over London sixty six times.’ Anyway, they gave me what meal they were having. It was only a sort of spaghetti bolognaise in fact. And then I got shunted off into where I was, the side room where I ate that and then taken down to a cellar and kept there all night with a German just outside the door, well a locked door, with a rifle. And yeah, that was next day I was taken by one of their, one of their police to the railway station and taken to down, down, down Germany to Frankfurt. We went to the Ruhr first. Went to Dusseldorf Railway Station where we had to change trains and, and then we went on down south to Frankfurt. And I was taken, handed over to the reception camp I suppose, well not a camp. It was a sort of a proper building. A reception centre where all crew, air crew went. Were taken for interrogation. Put in a single, taken up, put into a single cell with a little barred window high up and a wooden bunk. And that was it really. There was a blanket. A couple of blankets sort of thing. And my boots, shoes, boots, flying boots were taken away and put outside the door. I wasn’t allowed to keep those. I hadn’t anything else that was of any use. Oh they took my navigationers, navigator’s watch. And the next day I was taken up for interrogation. All aircrew were interrogated separately. Well, pilots, navigators and bomb aimers and radio operators. It’s not much good interrogating gunners because they didn’t know much. Navigators, he wanted, the officer interrogating me wanted to know what height we were flying, what bomb load did you have, what was your exact route into the target and so on and so on. And but there wasn’t much I could, well there wasn’t much I was prepared to. I said, ‘You know sir I’m only obliged to tell you my name, rank and, and’ —
Other: Number.
HW: Name, rank and [pause] Oh well never mind. I was only, with regards information I was only obliged to obey the Geneva Convention. He said, he says, ‘There’s one or two questions about you sergeant, he said, ‘You have been wondering about in Germany you say for six days.’ He said, ‘But we have no aeroplane that you flew in. What aeroplane? Where is your aeroplane that crashed? Where are the other?’ He said, ‘And you have no identity tag.’ He said. I said, ‘No. The string back home broke before I came out that last trip. I was going to put some fresh string on when I got back.’ He said, ‘No disk. No identification. You will not say what squadron you came from. You will not say what your target,’ he said, ‘That was the night of Duisburg raid.’ I said, ‘Well yes it was.’ So, so anyway, he, I got taken back to my cell again. The next day I was called for another. He gave me, he gave me another go and he said, ‘Yes sergeant,’ he said, ‘We have had another crew in from 51 Squadron and they say, they confirm that your aircraft did not come back from Duisburg.’ He said, ‘So I can see how why you cannot identify yourself,’ And he said he accepted the fact that I was telling him the truth. I told him as much as I was going to and he, and he said now about, ‘We have settled that. Now, about your route into the, what other targets have you attacked? What other targets has 51 Squadron?’ I thought well I’ve said quite enough now and I thought, ‘I can’t say any more sir.’ He thought ok. He gave up on that but it was a comfortable office he had with nicely carpeted. A big, big desk, smelling richly of cigar smoke and, oh well. Anyway, went down to this holding unit down at Oberursel where all prisoners are sent. All prisoners. Air Force prisoners went. And I went, I met there a chap called John Trumble who I did training with, navigator as well, training as South Africa and when he saw me he said, ‘Waggy,’ and we stayed together for all the rest of the time. Got sent over by train in cattle trucks. You know, forty men to a truck. That sort of a thing. Six horses or forty men. From there right over to the far side of Germany bordering Poland. Near the Polish border at, near Dresden err Chemnitz no. I’m not sure. Right over the very far corner, southwestern corner of Germany you might say, to a prison camp, Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau. B A N K A U. And this was for air force, Royal Air Force non-commissioned officers. I’d only been there three days, no, four days when, and it was quite established camp. They were the proper bunks and there wasn’t a lot of rubbish about. The food, the food was nicely organised and so on but then the Russians were moving close and the Germans said, ‘We’re going to move you out of here.’ So they marched us out one night. One night the, in fact Russian aircraft were bombing not very far away so we knew the Russians were getting close. But the Germans weren’t going to hand us over to the Russians. They were going to keep us because prisoners were good bargaining counters for them. They wanted to hang on to prisoners because they knew, really they knew how the war was going to finish. So we marched out. They’d given us a little time to get our few possessions together. Our few Red Cross items that we’d acquired. For instance a blanket and pyjamas and shaving kit and a few, a toothbrush and a few, a knife, fork and spoon. A few things like that. And off we went and oh it was hard marching. We used to march. They used to put us up in farmyards. In, in barns. In farmyards where you just lay on the ground in, or on straw if you were lucky. Feeding was by, they had a what sort of a thing, a boiler on wheels that they used to take used to drag round. It was, they used to do soup in it mainly. Cabbage soup or swede soup or something of that sort. Dreadful stuff. Used to issue a bit of bread each day and a bit of margarine. That’s about it I think. Oh a few potatoes. Yeah. Yeah. And so we walked through this bitter winter weather. We were stumbling along. Through thick snow quite often. One particular night there was a blizzard. You could rake your fingernails down your face and you wouldn’t feel anything. It was just numb. So anyway, this marching, well it wasn’t marching it was just staggering along really. And they used to put us up as I say in these barns and the next day we’d be off again. And this went on about six days through terrible winter weather. Until we came to a town called Goldberg where they put us on to, they got rail transport organised to take us to a camp called, to Stalag 3A called Luckenwalde. Near Berlin. Southwest of Berlin. And so we were, things took a turn for the better there. Mind this when we got to Luckenwalde it was an old established camp but proper brick built. It was built as a prison camp but it was, being a proper huts with wooden floors you didn’t have to sleep the earth floors or anything of that sort. And grossly overcrowded because there were other nationalities there. There were, there were Poles, there were Russians, there were Norwegians. Oh, there were all sorts there. And we, there was only room for us. The Germans put straw on the floor and wood. Wood straw. And we used to let, each person had a little area sort of as wide as he was and as long as he was and stretched out on the floor. The barrack blocks were each barrack block used to send up each day well twice, twice a day yeah to the cookhouse. And cookhouse well it was in the morning it was, there was nothing to eat. It was just water. Now, they, they brought they said the man in charge of each hut said, ‘How many men want their coffee made up as coffee, their tea made up as tea and how many want it left dry to smoke?’ [laughs] So through the rest of the day there was nothing to do really but lie on the floor. It was dirty. There was no, you had hang your blankets out on the wire, barbed wire each day to air to get the smell out of them. The wash place was dirty. Later in the day the main meal would consist of potatoes and soup again. A bit of bread. Sometimes a little bit of pate. But, but we made do with the Red Cross parcels. If we hadn’t had the Red Cross parcels I don’t know where we’d have been. The Geneva Convention says that the prisoners must be given the same rations as the home service back area troops. If the back area troops in Germany were living on what we got they must have been pretty hard up. Anyway, there was nothing to do all day. We used to go out, walk around the compound and well that was it. And oh we got the news read every day because, because our, our somebody had got and made a little radio set with bribing the German guards to bring in the odd valve and the battery. Bribing them with cigarettes. That was the general currency. Cigarettes out of Red Cross parcels. So they used to pick up the man who had this little radio set used to pick up the BBC news every day and come around to the huts and read it out loud to each one. So we knew what was happening. That was one thing to look forward to. Otherwise just snooze, slept, talked. There was nothing else to do until the Russians got close and we, the Germans were talking about moving us to some other place to, so they could keep their control of prisoners. But they never, they never made that. The Russians arrived one day and Russian tanks were knocking down the barbed wire. And we were, we were, or our senior British officer said that we were to stay put. We weren’t to go out roaming around the country. We were to stay put because things would get disorganised. Anyway, he said there’s safety in numbers. So we stayed there and after a time the Russians provided us with food of a sort but nothing much. But anyway when we had stayed there I was with this John Trumble. By this time firm friends with him. And we, I said to him, ‘Look John, these Russians aren’t going to let us go. They’ve held on to us. There’s no reason why we can’t go, link up, is there? They’ve linked up with the British. There’s no reason why we can’t go.’ I said, ‘I don’t like the look of it John.’ He said, ‘No,’ he said, ‘Waggy,’ he said, ‘Let’s go.’ So we put the news around amongst sort of a couple of dozen of us around about. ‘Yes. Ok mate. Ok. We got the message. We see what you mean. Yeah. We’re coming with you.’ So we slipped out against the orders of the senior British officer and after we’d walked about four miles or so I suppose we saw a convoy of lorries coming towards us. British lorries. So one of them stopped. We got aboard. He said, ‘I’ll take you lads back,’ he said, ‘The other lorries are going down to the camp to collect the rest of the lads.’ So we got into this lorry and went back. Crossed the River Elbe into British held territory and we were free. So, but those that stayed, those lorries that went to collect the rest of the RAF prisoners, the Russians wouldn’t let them go and they never did. They were never heard of again. I think the Russians thought hello, navigators, engineer, flight engineers, pilots if we got some, a bit top up here we’ll keep them. It’s all, it’s all in it’s all in there. So we stayed at this British Air Force aerodrome. Shönebeck it was called. And after two days the Dakotas came and picked us up, took us back to Brussels. There we were handed over to the, oh they were American Dakotas by the way. Taken back to Brussels. We were handed over and British Dakotas came and took us back to England. We landed at Wing near Aylesbury and we were back. Welcomed back into, into Air Force, Air Force ways again. Given uniforms and sent on leave and so on. So that was that. So that’s Air Force career pretty well finished. We used to get called back now and again for just a couple of weeks. I went back to one, what’s one down there [pause] near Stamford? What’s the?
Other: Wittering? Wyton? Wittering?
HW: Yeah. Went down to Wittering. Yes. And they called us back. Not that they wanted us back but they just wanted to let us know that they, we were still under their control. So after those stages the war finished of course and I went back to University and I’d done two years at University before being called up. So I went back in the January and did two terms to get back into the way of things. Then I had two more years to do my degree. And then I had a year to do for a diploma in education because I was going to be a teacher, you see. So, so and that all went through satisfactorily. The University were very good. The Air Force was very generous. They paid my University fees. All that sort of thing. And it all went nicely. I got a job in, after my teaching training was and so forth I got a job in an independent school. St Johns School in Leatherhead which was a minor public school, teaching French and Latin. Those were my two degree subjects. And I was in charge of rugby there which, and had a jolly good time there in fact. The head master was a very liberal minded man. Prefects were allowed to smoke in their studies. They, they were allowed to have, to brew coffee and to so on in their studies. And they had radio sets in their studies. He treated, he treated them as gentlemen and the one thing that annoyed him more than anything else was if a boy could be accused of ungentlemanly behaviour. Anything else he’d accept. But ungentlemanly behaviour oh. But as I say liberal minded you know. I said to him once about, we used to the crew rugby team used to some of us used to get together now and again. Talk over next Saturdays run and thinking about the captain I said, ‘Would it be alright, sir if I took Warrington down in to, down to the Globe down in Leatherhead. We’ll have a dinner and a couple of pints. A couple of pints.’ He said, ‘Yes. Yes, that would be alright Mr Wagner. Don’t bring him back completely drunk will you?’ So they were happy times. But I moved from there eventually after four years because I wanted to get back into the state system. I was also paying in to the state retirement. The pension system. So I applied for a job in the, at a Grammar. Dear me. Someone gave me a hollow tooth.
[pause]
HW: Yes. A Grammar School near Reading and where I was second in command of the French Department and I taught Latin as well. Taught French and Latin and took a great interest in their rugby and joined Marlow Rugby Club which played all. All my remaining rugby was played at Marlow Rugby Club. They made me an honorary life member for the rest of my days for services to the club. So well, anyway I’d be in this Grammar School I taught at in Reading. I was standing at the window of my classroom one day looking out over the playing fields and it was raining. It had been raining for quite a few days. I thought in another twenty years I’m going to be standing at the same window at this same blasted rain. I’ve got to have a complete change. So I looked in the “Times Education Supplement” for postings abroad. I was married by this time by the way. Yeah. And we were buying our own house. So I thought do a complete change and found one advertised in Kenya. So, for French and Latin. I thought, well there you go. I thought well they were the wrong sort to be learning Latin for, but anyway [laughs] Because at the station at the Delamere High School there were a third Africans, a third Asians and a third Europeans so there was a good mix. And of course they all had to pay. There was no such thing as free schooling out there. They all had to pay school fees so parents made sure that they didn’t waste their, waste their time in school. You got a child a bad report, a word to their parents and that soon brought about a change. We had a daughter by this time. Helen. She went to Kenya High School which was a girl’s boarding school and she only came home once every other weekend. They were allowed home. Otherwise apart from holidays that was the only time we saw her. Phillip was five years old went to, went to Nairobi Cathedral School which was a sort of an infant school you might say. He wasn’t five years old yet. So, but the wife of the canon at the Nairobi Cathedral, she taught. She ran the little school that they had. As an aside, it’s difficult to know, I don’t want to waste your time on this really, but it was run on traditional lines. She was there to teach. You were there to get taught and you were going to get taught. In the old traditional way. No play way. Anyway, it came around to the time of the Christmas pantomime. Traditional. And the usual Mary in the manger and all the, so Phillip was selected as Joseph. Right. So parents were invited of course into this performance and Joan and I were sitting there knowing that Phillip was a good big part and on he came. On to the stage with, with the usual sort of dishcloth around his head and a nightdress, a white nightdress on. All that sort of thing. And the head mistress had said, told the children, ‘We’ll try a new way this year. We’re not going to have the usual talk. You’ve got to do it like it happens at your house. Like when your mummy — when your daddy comes home what does your mummy say to him? And what does he say to her. And you’ve got to carry on like that.’ So Phillip arrives on. Mary’s there holding a big, a big doll and Phillip says, Mary says, ‘Welcome home Jesus. Nice to see you again.’ And Jesus says, Jesus says, ‘Oh yes, I’m glad to be home again Mary.’ And how’s this no, I’m getting it wrong aren’t I? Joseph. And how’s, Joseph says, ‘How’s little Phillip?’ I’m making a pigs ear of this. ‘How’s little Jesus been?’ And Mary says, ‘He hasn’t been a good boy at all. Yeah. In fact he’s been a right little bugger all day.’ And I can imagine Mary’s face. She’s told them to say things that happen just at home. And all the parents are sitting there [ laughs ] . Anyway, I became deputy head at this Queen’s Girl’s School. The head, when the head mistress was on leave I was a head teacher, principal for a whole term and then it got taken over. The Africans took it back they, we knew they were going to take it back. They took it back. Put their own staff in. Most of the Europeans had gone by then. From the whole country in fact. And so it was time for us to go and we went back to our, the house that we had started buying in Reading and settled down there and things went on from there quite normally. I joined, went back to Marlow Rugby Club. I took up, oh no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Went back to my old job that I had before and the headmaster said, ‘Yes. We’ll take you back Mr Wagner but would you guarantee to stay for two years? I don’t want somebody coming in and then he’ll settle down for a term and then he’ll start looking for a head of department’s job.’ ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘I’ll stay for two years.’ And after two years, when the two years were nearly up I got this job at the Queen’s Girl’s School in Wisbech. Teaching just, of course they don’t do Latin there. And carried on there. I worked there for, until I did nine years there. And when I was eighty, eighty one yeah [pause] Eighty one? Fifty eight. It was 1981 [laughs] when I was fifty eight. My wife had died. Helen had married and left home. Phillip was still at school on, doing A levels. And the house was all paid for and I thought well it was a job I didn’t really like. I was more of a warder than a teacher I thought well if I take it easy I can make do on my on the what I’ve got saved up and the teacher’s pension until I get the old age pension. So it worked. And I took up, I played golf a lot with Steven’s father. With one of the teachers who was at the Queen’s Girl’s School. Norman Davis. Used to go on holiday with them. I took up, I was down on Dartmoor. I used to do a lot of long distance walking on Dartmoor. And down there once I saw a chap, a couple of chaps driving up in a Land Rover and they, I was sitting in my car at the time and they took down from the roof a hang glider, unfurled it, rigged it, took it up one of the tors and I watched them. One of them launched off. I thought, ‘Cor. I’ll have a go at that.’ So when I got back, back home again I got a look, searched around and found that over near [pause] not Thetford. It was near Downham Market there’s a hang gliding school and I thought well, so I went over and enquired and they said, ‘Well yes. If you want to.’ It was a school not a club. You see it was a training school. So I went over there and did my first year I got an elementary certificate. The second year I got club pilot’s certificate so I could join, I was regarded as being a fully trained hang glider and I could fly. I could join a club and fly hang gliders. Which I did and I carried on. I can go back to the same place. They were quite happy for me to go back and fly their gliders but I wasn’t on any training course because I’d, so they thought, knew it all. So I did a lot of hang gliding there. They’re plenty of pictures in there. It was good. And then Phillip who had taken his own private pilot’s licence in powered aircraft and powered gliders and ordinary gliders. He came over. I said I’ll stay, he said, ‘Can I go on one of these hand glider courses if I don’t have a birthday present?’ I said, ‘Never mind about that Phillip I’ll come with you and pay for it.’ And so he got his own hang glider club pilot’s certificate as well. And there we are. That takes me up to the present. Oh went I over when they did the bungee jumping. Yeah. That was one thing I’d always wanted to do. And the, you know when I put the, I signed the you know the.
JH: That happened when you were, when you were ninety. Was that when you were ninety?
HW: Yes. That’s right. Signed the, what is it, what is the permit to fly?
Other: Disclaimer. Disclaimer form.
HW: Just the word.
JH: Disclaimer.
Other: Yeah.
JH: Disclaimer form.
Other: Yeah. It admonishes them from any responsibility.
HW: Yeah. It’s just word has gone. The word when you sign something saying it’s all —
JH: The waiver. Waiver.
HW: Yeah. Disclaimer.
Other: That’s the word.
JH: Yeah. Yeah.
HW: Yeah so and that’s taken me out of the thing. I’ve given up the long distance walking because I get back pain. And that’s why Steven is doing so much work in the garden. But up to that everything’s going nicely and I’ve been extraordinarily lucky with health.
JH: Ok. Well, thank you Henry for your time to record this interview today. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Henry Wolfe Wagner. One
Creator
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Judy Hodgson
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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03:13:51 Audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AWagnerHW160504, PWagnerHW1701
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Henry Wolfe Wagner was born in Ireland. The family moved to England when he was young and settled near Reading. Henry attended Reading University for two years joining the University Air Squadron. He then volunteered for the RAF and began training as a pilot. He went to South Africa for his training. He was put forward to begin training as a navigator when his pilot training was interrupted. After returning to Great Britain and completing his training he was posted to 51 Squadron at RAF Snaith. On their eighth operation his crew were attacked by a night fighter over Duisberg. Henry managed to walk for several days before he was caught and became a prisoner of war. He was sent to Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau before undertaking the Long March.
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
Poland
South Africa
Germany--Duisburg
England--Yorkshire
Poland--Tychowo
Alps
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Requires
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Henry was born in Ireland and held Irish citizenship. He talks of his family and schooling, but the Second World War had begun before he began attending Reading University in 1940. He joined the University Air Squadron which lead to him choosing the RAF and aircrew training when ‘called up.’ Sent of South Africa to begin learning to become a pilot Henry found himself transferred to the navigator training path when he failed to become a pilot. He gained his Navigator’s brevet and the rank of Sergeant on his graduation.
Henry returned to the UK and was posted to RAF West Freugh, Scotland, then RAF Abingdon to learn about the differences in flying in European weather. He crewed up at Abingdon before moving to the HCU RAF Stanton Harcourt. On being posted to 4 Group HCU RAF Marston Moor he learnt that he would be flying Halifax aircraft and the final member of his crew joined them. Here they learnt about the Gee navigation system. Once the left this base, they were classed as an operational aircrew.
Henry’s crew was posted to RAF Snaith near Doncaster. He explains how it was a constant race to keep ahead technologically ahead of the German. Henry tells of the operations he went on to Julich, Munster, and six in the Ruhr area (Duisburg etc.). He details the types of target, and the kinds of defences the targets have.
After talking of the losses sustained by Bomber Command during the Second World War, Henry describes his final flight during which the aircraft bombed the target successfully but on it’s return journey was shot down. Henry was the only member of the crew to successfully bail out. He describes the small survival kit that the RAF had issued him with and his evasion the any Germans until he was caught and initially placed in the Luftwaffe’s care. He was sent via Frankfurt to Stalag Luft 7 which was for RAF NCOs at Bankau. After the Russian front drew near to the camp, the POWs were sent to the already overcrowded prison camp of Stalag 3A Luckenwalde. The prisoners were only able to take a few items from Red Cross parcels like blankets, shaving kits, toothbrushes, etc. While they were marching in the bitter winter 1944/45, they often had to stay in farm building, were mainly given soup to eat.
Henry describes life in Stalag 3A, and how he came to be liberated. He was flown to RAF Wing and returned to Reading University to complete his education and become a teacher.
Henry details his post-war life in teaching and with his family.
Claire Campbell
51 Squadron
aircrew
crewing up
Dulag Luft
evading
fear
Gee
H2S
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
navigator
prisoner of war
RAF Abingdon
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Snaith
RAF West Freugh
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
Tiger Moth
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1181/11753/PWagnerHW1701.2.jpg
6a7763552d25d2c08c9178b97a3f8dee
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1181/11753/AWagnerHW170719.1.mp3
7846d95153b605a6327ce0831d9d70b6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wagner, Henry Wolfe
H W Wagner
Description
An account of the resource
15 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Henry Wolfe Wagner (1923 - 2020, 1604744 Royal Air Force), his memoirs, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 51 Squadron from RAF Snaith and became a prisoner of war. He was demobbed in 1946 and returned to education where he remained until his retirement.
The collection was catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wagner, HW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 19th of July 2017. Through a misunderstanding I’ve come along to help with an int — to do another interview. But today the original interview from May last year has arrived. So what we’re going to do now is to just put in some extra items for Henry Wagner and let’s hope that that will be useful. We were talking about being in Stalag Luft 7 and the German reaction to glider pilots. So, what was that?
HW: Yeah. Anyway, the chap in charge of our hut was, his surname was Nettle. So, you can guess what his nickname was. Stinger he was called. Anyway, one morning we, towards the end we didn’t know what the Germans were going to do with prisoners. We were worried about how they were going to, would they be all exterminated? Knowing the German record in that sort we just didn’t know. Anyway, when Stinger came back from a meeting one morning he came into the hut and he said, he had a funny way of speaking by the way. He put in the letter H where it shouldn’t be and left it out where it should be. Anyway, he says, ‘Right,’ he says, ‘Silence.’ So, everybody was quiet, ‘Right,’ he says, ‘Everybody in this hut is to parade outside in ten minutes time to march down to the stores to draw picks and shovels to dig their own graves.’ Well, there was, ‘Oh,’ we thought, ‘Oh. It’s come to that has it?’ So, he let it go for about ten seconds and then a smile spread over his face. Oh, it’s only old Stinger and his jokes again [laughs] And they talk about the Long March from, from Bankau to Lukenwalde. It wasn’t a march at all. We were there. There was no military precision. We just dragged ourselves along through the snow. Bitterly cold. You could rake your fingernails down the side of your face and you wouldn’t feel a thing. So, you had your shoulders hunched and you just shuffled along through the snow like that with the German guards with Alsatians beside you of course. And there was no marching. I’ve got a video tape, that’s right, which I can’t play now but that’s beside the point, of a reconstruction of the, what they call the Long March. But it’s all, it’s all people that are young, healthy, clean. They’re not dragging themselves along through the snow. They’re walking at a fairly brisk pace. It’s all, it’s all [pause] it’s all Pantomime really. I’ve never bothered looking at the thing again, I never will because it was no portrayal of what they call the Long March. There was no marching about it. And in the barns at night. I mean these people had dormitories. They knew where they were going to stop. They knew how far they were going to walk. We never knew how far we were going to walk until we stopped for the night. They were mostly in barns. There might be food available. There probably would be a sort of a soup made on their field kitchens. And you just laid down on the floor. So, that was, the Long March was, well it’s all described in the, in there. If you read through you’ll —
CB: Sure.
HW: You’ll see what I thought of it.
CB: And what was the menu normally?
HW: Pardon?
CB: What was the menu? What did they serve you to eat?
HW: Oh. What? On the march?
CB: Yes.
HW: The so-called march. You got a bit of bread in the morning. In the evening a bit, a little bit of margarine quite often. And a brew of the stuff that they called tea. You got nothing through the day until the evening. It was usually, well a soup made with some sort of a herb. I think they were mostly swede tops and bits of swede and things like that. The lads called it after a popular tune at the time. The lads nicknamed it Whispering Grass. And that was it. Otherwise you drank water. So, there was a thin time.
CB: What happened to those prisoners who failed to keep up?
HW: I think the Germans gave continual warning, ‘Anybody falling out will be shot.’ But I don’t think that ever happened. They were just left lying in the snow and they would have died from over exposure and just given up.
CB: What about your, on your feet. What shoes or boots did you have?
HW: I had my flying boots which were bad to walk in because they were lambswool lined. They were loose fitting. I tied them. I tore a bit of wire off of a, off a fence as we were passing by and wound those around just to keep them on my feet.
CB: And what was your destination?
HW: Our destination. Oh, actual walking was a town called Goldberg. And we were promised that when we got there train transport would be provided to Luckenwalde, near Berlin. Which was duly how it turned out. They got that right.
CB: And what sort of transport was it?
HW: What sort of what?
CB: Was it trucks? Rail? Just cattle trucks was it?
HW: Oh yeah. Cattle trucks. Forty men to a truck. It said, they were, they’d been looted from the French railways and it said on the, painted on the side of each one, “Quarant homme. Huit chevaux.” Forty men. Eight horses. So they put us in. Probably more than forty men. You couldn’t all lie down at the same time. There was straw on the floor. A big bucket in one corner which if you needed a pee that’s where you went. Of course, lying down and trying to get a bit of sleep anywhere near that bucket it wasn’t, it wasn’t a favourite place [laughs] One German guard in the, in the truck with us with a rifle of course. But the German guards you see at this stage they were all the fighting men had been moved to the Russian Front and so on and the combat areas all around Europe. They were like our Home Guard really. They were oldish chaps. They didn’t want any hassle and we, we played along. They didn’t give us any hassle. We didn’t give them any hassle.
CB: So, how many days were you walking?
HW: Well, occasionally we stopped for a whole day in some farmyard. It’s all in, I can’t remember off hand. Somewhere about three weeks, I think.
CB: Oh. Right. And then on the train.
HW: That was only — maybe two. Maybe two days.
CB: Going back to your earlier comment. In the prison camp, the reason you were all concerned about being shot, the joke wasn’t very helpful, was because with Stalag Luft 3 and the Great Escape.
HW: Yes.
CB: Then the Germans shot fifty, didn’t they? So, but the other point was you mentioned about glider pilots. So, the reaction of the Germans to glider pilots. What was that? A confusion.
HW: Oh, they accepted them the same as they accepted them as airmen. They didn’t accept them as fighting men. Although of course when they landed their glider they didn’t just sit there and do nothing. They were fighting men from then on.
CB: Yeah. So, these pilots had been captured where? Where would they have been captured?
HW: What? The glider pilots? Arnhem. Arnhem, and around about there.
CB: Right. Ok.
HW: Crete, some of them had been captured at.
CB: Ok. I’ll stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: So you were shot down and there was a sequence that occurred.
HW: Yes. Yes.
CB: So, what was the first you knew about there being an attack?
HW: A warning from the, from the mid-upper gunner. Corkscrew port. Err corkscrew starboard go.’ Now, are you familiar with the corkscrew movement?
CB: Yes.
HW: When an aircraft is coming down on you like that and you’re — he’s coming, you’re both going the same direction he can sit tight and take good steady aim where he was. So, the thing to do when you came under attack from a fighter was not to turn away from him and go in the same direction but turn towards him so you were closing. The two aircraft were closing at some five hundred miles an hour. So he had no time whatever to take careful aim. In fact, if there was a corkscrew and you were moving upwards it was forcing him to go upwards as well. And he couldn’t get at the bomber flying down below. So it was this corkscrew manoeuvre that was the good one. If a Messerschmitt 110 pilot had time to take aim then he was nicely placed. But if he’d been detected and a corkscrew movement by the bar was immediately started he was on a loser. So, that was their favourite method of attack. The other method of attack if it was by a Junkers 88 which had a cannon sticking upwards in the roof was to come along underneath the bomber, point his cannon upwards at the fuselage or petrol tanks or wherever and just let rip. Because he was flying at the same speed as the bomber so he could take careful aim.
CB: That’s using schrage music.
HW: Yeah. We, we had, there was a downward looking radar that we had to detect this but unfortunately the Germans were homing on to that, transmissions of that radar. It was helping find a target, in fact. So, this downward looking radar called Fishpond was, was soon, was soon given up.
CB: So, on this, on this occasion how did the attack proceed?
HW: The first attack he was sitting in a nice — he should have known. He should have been able to take our plane. He came down, opened fire but missed. There were no hits. So, he carried on downwards. Came along underneath and up to his original position for a similar attack from a similar sort of position. This time our gunners knew what was going on and started the corkscrew manoeuvre as soon as he started to dive. But he was able to get in sufficient shots with his cannons and machine guns to perforate one of the petrol tanks in the, in the starboard wing. That was all, if they had time they preferred to attack from the starboard side because any pilot learning to fly always sits in the right hand err left hand seat. So pilots had the war, even in modern times they find it easier to look out to their left hand side rather than look right across the fuselage to the other side. So, the [pause] well that’s about it. As I said the petrol tanks were set on fire. One petrol tank anyway was set on fire and it was, oh the pilot, the engineer said, ‘Wilf, we’re on fire.’ And I looked up from down in the nose and I could see a roaring mass of flame where burning petrol was coming flooding in through the wing roots into the fuselage. And that was also where the oxygen bottles were stored. And if they’d got really, when they got really hot they would have gone off like bombs anyway. The pilot just took one look and gave the order to evacuate the aircraft. There was obviously nothing, there was no way that fire was going to be put out so he had no hesitation. On the first attack I’d kept my parachute pack on. On to the parachute harness. So I didn’t have to scrabble around to try and find that and then clip it on. It was on there and ready for when the second attack came. So, that’s it.
CB: So, the parachute you wore on the front or behind you?
HW: Oh, on the front. Two. Two clips on the front.
CB: Right.
HW: On the chest parachute.
CB: So, on the fighter’s second run he was successful and punctured tanks on which side?
HW: On the, on the starboard. Or right hand side if you want. In the wing root.
CB: And when the pilot realised what was going on what did he then do? He called —
HW: Oh, he just said, oh, he looked up, ‘Abandon aircraft.’ There was no hesitation. Not, ‘Well, I wonder if we can get that put out.’ No. There was, as I said there was no way that fire was going to be put out. So, that’s how it went.
CB: So, when you get the order to abandon aircraft what was the sequence that you went through?
HW: I, I was already standing up so my seat had folded over on springs. Folded itself against the wall. Kicked away the legs of the navigation table and that collapsed leaving an open space about, about four feet by three feet I should say. It’s a big trapdoor on the floor. I bent down, turned the handle of the trap door, raised the trap door and when I got above the vertical you could lift it off its hinges. Turn it diagonally, drop it through the hole and then follow it. Facing backwards of course out of the slipstream.
CB: Right. So, that’s straight through the floor and then the idea — what did the rest, what were the rest of the crew supposed to do?
HW: The bomb aimer should have been next. He was, it was all sort of — we’d been well trained at abandoning aircraft. There was no — they were all our drills. There was no pushing and shoving, ‘Get out of my way.’ ‘Let me go first.’ ‘Hurry up.’ ‘Get a move on.’ No. There was none of that sort of. It all fell in to place like that. So, the bomb aimer would have been next. The wireless operator would have been third. The, the mid-upper gunner he would have had to extract himself from his turret which he was very closely held in, hemmed in by machine guns, ammunition belts and heaven knows what. He would have had a job to. It would have taken him time to get out of there, locate his parachute, put it on to his, on the hooks on his chest. The same applied to the rear gunner. He couldn’t keep his parachute in the turret because there wasn’t room for it. He kept it in the fuselage just outside the turret. So, he had to open the turret doors, extricate himself from all the equipment inside the turret, reach for his parachute, put it on, make his way to the main exit door on the port side, open the door. You see, it all took time. Time was getting. They hadn’t the time to do it.
CB: Right. So, in the practicality, the actuality I should say of this you got out as soon as you were told to do so.
HW: Yes.
CB: What happened to the rest of the crew?
HW: Well, presumably trying to extricate themselves but I hadn’t been long out of there, only a few seconds before there was an explosion. And I think a petrol tank with just vapour inside exploded when the flames got to it. Or else the main spar had been so weakened by the fire that under the weight of the engines the wing just fell off and the aircraft would have gone in to a spiral like that. Trapping those inside. They’d never have made their way to an escape hatch then.
CB: So, you didn’t see any other parachutes?
HW: No. There weren’t any other. So, they must have, they must have gone down. Nobody was injured I don’t think. But they must have gone down in this knowing quite well they’d no chance of getting out and that they were going to be killed when it hit the ground.
CB: What height were you flying that day?
HW: When we were attacked we were flying at fifteen thousand.
CB: Did you normally fly within a band or what was the —
HW: Well, on the way to the target, oh and on the way home again you never flew at the same height like that. It was always slightly on the climb, a little bit level, down a bit, up a bit. Down. Down. Down. Down. Up. And like that so that the Germans couldn’t, if they knew we were going to be flying at fifteen thousand they’d have had all their anti-aircraft shells fused for fifteen thousand.
CB: Was there a popular height that you would fly?
HW: Pardon?
CB: Was there a certain height that was more popular that you would fly?
HW: No. No. They were graduated from, bombing height was normally eighteen thousand to twenty thousand. Lancasters could get a little bit higher. Lancasters could probably get up to twenty one. But Halifaxes, well they could struggle up to twenty one but usually not above twenty.
CB: So, at the time you had already dropped. What was your target? You’d already dropped your bombs.
HW: What was that?
CB: What was your target that day? Duisburg.
HW: The armament works at Duisburg.
CB: Right.
HW: I mean, and quite often if you didn’t hit the actual armament works, a lot of bombs did no doubt but if if they were falling in around about within say four or five hundred yards they were going to be destroying railway lines, power stations, the worker’s, the worker’s hospitals, the worker’s homes. They were going to spread chaos around about setting the whole thing on fire. Letting the fire carry on and do the explosives. Scatter them and the flammable material about and the incendiaries we carried set it on fire. So —
CB: So, what was the combination of ordnance that you carried?
HW: Oh, it varied. Once, once we had a two or probably more than once, you’ll see what our bomb load was on, on the report of the operations that our aircraft carried out. You’ll see the bomb load. A mixture of the two thousand pounder. Maybe two one thousand pounders and some incendiaries. Or maybe eight five hundred pounders and some incendiaries. Sometimes a thirty kilogram incendiary device. Phosphorous bomb. Sometimes it was the ordinary five pound incendiary. Just ones that burst in to flames when they hit the ground. It varied from time to time. But you could see by the —
CB: Yeah. Now, the Cookie was a four thousand pound drum. What was in it?
HW: A Cookie?
CB: Yeah. What was in a Cookie?
HW: Just, just explosive.
CB: One single blast bomb was it?
HW: Hmmn?
CB: One single explosive.
HW: Yes. Yeah.
CB: Not combination of things.
HW: No. No. No.
CB: Ok. Just stop there a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: So, in, in how did the crew gel? In the air and socially.
HW: Oh, absolutely. There was no suspicion of anybody not being quite up to the mark. Everybody performed their job perfectly as far as I’m aware. On the ground sometimes we went [unclear] to go together, to hire a bicycle go off to a village pub and have quite a few beers there and sometimes I’d be with one. Sometimes two or three of us would go together. Sometimes the whole crew will go. We had got station bicycles and headed for the nearest pub.
CB: In some cases people got a bit nervous about what they were doing. How did you see the reaction of your crew before take-off?
HW: What? You mean about dropping bombs and killing civilians? Well, their attitude was, well they asked for it and they got it. I remember hearing Air Marshal Harris on the radio once when, when he’d got Bomber Command built up the way he wanted. The strength that he wanted. He had said originally, ‘Give me four thousand aircraft and I can finish the war.’ Well, that wasn’t on. They couldn’t. There were too many other demands for equipment. But he soldiered on until, there came a time when you remember the thousand bomber raids on Cologne for instance? When he’d got enough he’d got enough. And he said on the, on the radio, and he had a very Churchillian way of talking. He said, ‘People say that you can never win a war by bombing alone. Well, my answer to that is that it has never been tried before. And we shall see. I have the men. I have the aircraft. I have the equipment for the navigators to get the aircraft to the right space. The Germans started this business of area bombing in London. Now, they are going to get a taste of their own medicine. Hot and strong. And they won’t like it.’ So it gave new heart to Bomber Command. Right. We finished dropping bombs on open countryside. Now, each bomb is going to do some damage. We’ve got the equipment. We’ve got the gear. We’ve got the organisation. From now on we’re all going forward. And as I say the Germans asked for — they started the business of area bombing so they hadn’t really got any grounds for complaints.
CB: It was a dangerous task going on operations.
HW: Yes.
CB: How did the crew react to that?
HW: Some, some hundred thousand men flew with Bomber Command. And I’ll give you it in very round figures there and fifty six thousand were killed. So, your chances of coming through were less than, less than fifty fifty. And moreover when you’d done your thirty, thirty trips was a tour, when you’d done your thirty you were as they said rested. But in fact you weren’t rested at all. You went to Operational Training Units and to assist with the training of other pilots who were just getting ready to go on operations. So quite a lot were killed in that sort of —
CB: Yeah.
HW: In that sort of activity as well. And then to go back for another. Another twenty. A second tour was twenty. When you’d done that lot, if you’d, very few done it — when you’d done it then they couldn’t make you do any more. You’d fulfilled your obligations.
CB: What knowledge, experience or hearsay did you have about people lacking moral fibre. LMF?
HW: I never came across any of it at all. I can understand that maybe for some people the mental stress was just too much and they couldn’t take any more. I don’t believe they chickened out of their own free will. They just felt that they could not do it anymore. And so I don’t look upon those as cowards. I look upon those who were prepared to give it their best shot but they couldn’t cope with it.
CB: Now, the RAF took a pretty stern line on that.
HW: Pardon?
CB: The RAF took a very stern line.
HW: Oh yes. They didn’t take the same point of view as I’ve just been explaining. They were sent to ordinary Air Force camps. Not necessarily operational. And they were put on the dirtiest jobs of cleaning latrines and wash houses. All that sort of thing. The Air Force regrettably looked upon them as cowards. I don’t think there were all that many of them.
CB: Right. What would you say was the most memorable experience you had in the war?
HW: Well, just getting shot down I think. They were all memorable. The getting shot down, the aircraft on fire, the parachute jump. All these sort of things. The Long March. They all added up to a pretty unpleasant time.
CB: As you said just now you were the sole survivor of the seven crew in the aircraft because the others just didn’t get out. How did you feel about that?
HW: That’s the way the cookie crumbles.
CB: And after that, in Prisoner of War camp to what extent did people discuss their experiences?
HW: Most people told you as much as I’ve been telling you. They seemed to, seemed to be the same sort of thing in most crews. They tell you what happened. Not complaining mostly but tell you what happened. And that was the way it was.
CB: In Stalag Luft 7, did the Germans come and interrogate you after you arrived ever?
HW: No. That was all done at Frankfurt. At Oberursel. They got all the information and that was it. You were just sent to a prison camp. You were just a prisoner.
CB: And what was the procedure they followed in interrogating?
HW: The procedure?
CB: When you were being interrogated what were, how did they do it? What was the procedure?
HW: Oh, when I arrived at Oberursel I was put in a solitary cell. All, all arrivals there were placed in solitary cells. A very narrow cell where the windows were barred. You couldn’t see out. They were frosted glass. There was a bed with a bit of a mattress on it. Not very well stuffed. A blanket. And that was, when you wanted to go to the toilet you had to pull a handle near the door and like a signal arm outside in the corridor fell down with a clang. And the German guards in the corridor came along. And you’d say, ‘Toilet.’ And he’d take you along to the toilet which was at the end of the corridor. Outside that toilet there was a box on the wall with sheets of paper which you had to have to take with you as you went in. I thought — I took two, they were a bit on the small side. I took two sheets of paper. And the German said, ‘Nein. Nein, he says, ‘Ein. Ein.’ So, I had to put one back. And you got escorted back to your cell. And you got your tea in the morning. And a bit of bread. The soup at mid-day and that was very much it.
CB: So, what was the first bit of interrogation they did?
HW: Oh, yeah. I got taken, after about, I’d say two days maybe it was absolutely solitary. It was to break you down a bit, I think. Got taken. A guard took me along to another part of the prison and where the interrogation took place. I was put in an office where there was a German. A major I think he probably was. Wearing a black uniform anyway. It smelt richly of cigar smoke in there. A very comfortable office. I was sat in a chair in front of his desk. And he could speak, of course perfect English. Obviously he had to do that, didn’t he? And he said, ‘There are some things I would like to know about you, Sergeant Wagner,’ he says. ‘Firstly,’ he says, ‘You have no identity tags.’ I said, ‘No. Before we came last evening I had to wear them around my neck on a piece of string but the string broke. So I left them behind me and I thought I’ll put new string on when I get back home.’ ‘Ah,’ he says, ‘Yes’ He says, ‘What squadron were you?’ ‘You know, sir, I can’t tell you things like that. The Geneva Conventions says that I must tell you my name, rank and service number.’ So, ‘Ah,’ he says, ‘It would be a big help to me,’ he said, ‘ If I could believe you, you see,’ he said. ‘We have a man here who has no identity tags and he will not say, he will not say what squadron he belongs to. He says he has been wandering about in Germany for six days. Six days without any food?’ He says, ‘I must think more about this.’ And I was sent back to the cell again. Left for another two days and got called up to his office. And he says, ‘Ah, sergeant. Sergeant Wagner,’ he says, ‘I have had some information. Some more information has reached me,’ he said. ‘I have had a crew in from 51 Squadron who say, I asked them, have any member — and they tell me their squadron,’ he said, ‘They tell me what squadron. You did not tell me what squadron,’ he said, ‘They tell me what. I say has any other crew been missing from your squadron lately? And they gave me the name. They say, ‘Yes. The crew of Warrant Officer Bates.’ ‘Ah,’ he says, ‘And a sergeant was, sergeant, the navigator was Sergeant Wagner.’ He says, ‘Things are beginning to fall into place now,’ he says. He said, ‘You were wandering about for six days without food? What did you drink?’ I said, ‘Well, water out of cattle troughs mostly.’ And he said, ‘What was your bomb load on the night you were —?’ I said, ‘Firstly, sir, you know I can’t tell you that. Secondly, I didn’t know what the bomb load because it was of no interest to me.’ And thirdly he says, ‘What height were you flying?’ I said, ‘We were never on the same level. Sometimes we were going up. Sometimes we were going down. Sometimes we’d be level a bit,’ I said, ‘I can’t remember all the different.’ So, that seemed to satisfy him. He realised that I couldn’t really be expected to remember all that. So, in the end he was still smoking a cigar by the way and it was, he realised I think, well, I’ve got all I can get out of this chap. He’s not being deliberately obstructive. I can’t expect him to remember these things. There’s no point making things more difficult for him. Because getting towards the end of the war they realised they wanted, they didn’t want to raise their heads above the parapet. They wanted to keep a low profile. If he’d been guilty of any, I should say illegal activities then he would have been made to pay the penalty afterwards. So, we parted on reasonable terms shall we say. I went back to my cell. Left there for another three or four days and then got moved by train to, to [pause] moved by this to Wetzlar, that’s right. It was a transit camp. Everybody went there and they were sorted in to batches according to which prison camp in Germany they went to. And when my batch came up after about after three or four days then off I went by train over to, over to Bankau.
CB: So the plane landed where?
HW: The plane?
CB: Where did your plane land?
HW: It crashed in Holland. Just close, just the British had been occupying that area for just a few days. The Germans had just been kicked out. The, so the crew were all buried by, by the Dutch people and, but on my parachute I drifted back across the River Maas and landed behind German lines. In the back garden of a house in a village.
CB: Did you?
HW: It’s all in there.
CB: Yeah. Did you have any detail of where the plane actually crashed?
HW: No. No. It wasn’t until after the war that I went back there because I was in a Dutch twinning club. And I went over there one year and got in touch with the Dutch farmer whose land it had crashed on. And he gave me a big piece of — a big piece of the fuselage of our aircraft. A big piece of metal sheeting which I brought back to England and which is now in our aircraft museum over here at Wisbech.
CB: Did the Germans recover the aircraft or did they just leave them in the field?
HW: Well, the Germans weren’t there when it crashed.
CB: No. No. I just wondered if in general —
HW: Oh. In general.
CB: You knew whether they had left.
HW: No. They wouldn’t. They couldn’t be bothered. If it skated along on the surface.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Came down and was in reasonable condition of course they salvaged it and examined it and tested it and all that sort of thing. But it had gone in. It had gone in deep.
CB: Yes. If it was vertical.
HW: Some that we’ve dug up in this vicinity they, well one over near Downham Market it had crashed between, between two water courses. And we got in touch with the Water Board and they said, ‘You can go down to sixteen feet and no further or you’ll upset the water table.’ So, you have to get permission from the Ministry first that there’s no explosives on board.
CB: Yeah.
HW: So, then you have to get the landowners permission. And if he says no of course you can’t go on his land and dig it up if he says, ‘No. You can’t come on here.’
CB: No.
HW: So, quite often it’s been a matter of just waiting.
[recording paused]
CB: So, after the war did people have interest in you being a POW?
HW: No. No. No. Not really. No interest whatever. In fact, it’s the same with a lot of people. My daughter has three sons and none of them ever showed the slightest interest in war time or my flying career or war time or anything of that sort. They’ve never seen any of these documents I’ve got here. They just show, haven’t shown any interest. My son, on the other hand, he was always interested in flying. He was, he joined the Air Training Corps. Wanted to go into the Air Force as a pilot. He was accepted for officer training. But for aircrew training he failed the medical. They said, ‘No. You’ve got a weak right eye,’ So they said, ‘We can give you other careers.’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘Pilot. I’m not interested in anything else.’ So, he resigned from the Air Force and took on, went into Air Traffic Control. And that’s where he worked all his life. Down at Air Traffic Control down at Southampton.
CB: Yeah.
HW: But he retired last about two months ago now and he’s, he’ll finish off his, the contract that he got, house that he’s got that he rents down at, down at Bishops Waltham. He’ll finish off that contract and then he’s going to buy a house up at Thetford. So —
CB: Right.
HW: And my daughter has just, she’s sold her house at Milton Keynes. They’ve moved up to Dersingham so they won’t be far away. So, but my son took up — he was interested. When I took up the hang gliding of course.
CB: At ninety.
HW: He perked his ears up.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
HW: And I said, ‘Well,’ I said, ‘If you’re interested,’ I said, ‘I’ll pay for your training. You can come over with me when I go over hang gliding. You can take your elementary certificate and then your club pilot certificate,’ he said. I said. So that’s what he did. So, he’s got as well as his he took his own private pilot’s licence just to, just to prove to himself he could do it. And then he’s, so he’s a qualified hang glider pilot. Same as I. But of course I don’t carry on. They won’t let me go hang gliding now.
CB: No. For your ninetieth birthday what did you do?
HW: I gathered my daughter and her children, sons and my son and his wife and we had an evening over at the Rising Sun pub. No. Not the Rising Sun. The Locomotive pub in Wisbech. And drinks were on me and we had a very happy evening all gathered together there. And we — I’ve forgot what I was going to say now.
CB: Didn’t you go on — did you do a parachute drop?
HW: Pardon?
CB: Did you do a parachute drop?
HW: No. I wanted to do. A friend of mine whose wife has MS, he said, ‘Would you do a standard parachute jump for MS funds?’ I said, ‘Well,’ I said, ‘I’m not very keen, Dick because, well quite honestly I can’t stand this business of going around asking people for money and asking people to sponsor.’ He said, ‘I’ll take of all that,’ he said. ‘Leave all that to me.’ He said, ‘Would you do it?’ I said, ‘Oh, I’ll do it alright.’ So, I got in touch with the appropriate, appropriate Association and they said, ‘Well, yes, they said, you’re going to have to have a doctor’s certificate of fitness.’ I said, ‘I’ll get that alright.’ So, when I went to my doctor he said, ‘Oh,’ he says, ‘I don’t know about that,’ he said, ‘You know you have a slight heart murmur.’ I said, ‘Yes. I’ve had that for years and years.’ He said, he said, ‘I’m not sure about this,’ he said. ‘I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I’ll consult with a colleague of mine who is a heart surgeon and I will ask his advice. See what he thinks. So, and I will let you know.’ So, I went back a week later. ‘My colleague said he does not advise this.’ Mind they were just watching their own backs. I mean if they’d said yes and if there had been trouble, then they would have been in trouble. So, and I don’t blame them for watching their backs in these compensation days. So, I said to Dick, ‘Well, no. I can’t do it, Dick. They won’t let me. I’ll tell you what I will do though. I’ll do a bunjee jump.’ So, he said — ‘And you can, if you can get people to sponsor me for that, ok. You carry on.’ So, I got in touch with the bunjee people, ‘Do I need a medical?’ They said, ‘No. How old are you?’ I said, ‘Ninety.’ ‘Do you take any drugs?’ ‘No.’ ‘Have you had any heart trouble?’ ‘No. Not really. No.’ ‘That’ll be ok then.’ So, so I went. So, I did the bunjee jump and I’d do another one if I had a chance. I enjoyed that.’
CB: What was it, what was it, what did you feel when you did it?
HW: What? While I was going on? Oh, enjoying it. They don’t let you go down like that which would be a bit tame. They swing the jib from side to side. They swing you back and forth like that. So, it’s not a just a straight drop. Yeah. I enjoyed that. I’d like another one of those. But if another, if another, if they come back to Wisbech again and I see, I see, I get the chance I’ll give it another go.
CB: There’s a notion amongst flight —
HW: Hmmn?
CB: There’s a notion amongst flying people that they don’t want to jump out of an aeroplane if they can help it. Do you think having had to get out when the plane was going down that gave you a different perspective?
HW: No. No. It was a case of stay here and die or go. So the obvious answer was go.
CB: But doing it again you would have a choice?
HW: If I had. Yeah. I’d be quite happy knowing what the drill is. Know I’ve got to drop a certain distance before pulling the, before pulling the cord. And, yeah I’d be quite happy to do an ordinary solo jump but of course they won’t let me now.
CB: No. No. Henry Wagner thank you very much for the rematch.
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Interview with Henry Wolfe Wagner. Two
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-07-19
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Sound
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AWagenrHW170719, PWagnerHW1701
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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00:53:56 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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Henry’s aircraft was shot down when the fuel tank exploded on the starboard wing and came down in Holland. Henry was the only member of the crew to bail out. Their target had been the armament works in Duisburg. Henry drifted across the River Maas behind German lines and was taken prisoner. He was interrogated at Oberursel, near Frankfurt, and moved to a transit camp at Wetzlar before being sent by train to Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau.
Henry describes The Long March from Bankau to Luckenwalde, the cold, the guards and lack of food. They walked for some three weeks to Goldberg and then spent two days in cattle trucks going to Luckenwalde. Anyone who fell was left at the roadside to die of exposure.
Henry refers to the large number of aircrew who lost their lives in Bomber Command and one of Air Marshal Harris’s speeches on the radio.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Spatial Coverage
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Netherlands
Europe--Meuse River
Poland
Poland--Tychowo
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany
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1945
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Henry explains the high attrition rate of Bomber Command and the RAF’s concept of men with a ‘lack of moral fibre’ which he disagrees with. Henry describes the ‘corkscrew movement’, ‘schrage music’ and why the ‘Fishpond’ radar had to be discontinued. He talks of the range of different ordinance they may be required to carry.
Evacuation was never easy from the aircraft, particularly when there was damage to its infrastructure, and there were difficulties removing some of the crew safely. However, due to many drills to this procedure they left the plane in an orderly and pre-arranged fashion. There was also the added complication of any parachute malfunction, fire from other plane enemy/friendly, and anti-aircraft fire from the ground on top of any problems arising from the landing. Landing in an area already ablaze with the very bombs that you were there to drop was also a real concern.
When Henry had to bail out of his Halifax, they aircraft landed in Holland and was buried too deeply to be salvaged.
He describes his journey though Oberursel, Frankfurt to Stalag 7 Bankau, and the march they had to make because the Germans wanted to keep the POWs away from the oncoming Russians. He explains how the POWs survived their time in captivity, particularly after the ‘Great Escape’ from Stalag Luft 3 where fifty were killed. Towards the conclusion of the war, the POWs worried that they too were going to be killed like those of Stalag Luft 3.
The march from Bankau to Luckenwalde took place in the winter of 1944/45. The POWs never knew how far they would be marching each day, what they would be given to eat or where they would sleep. Henry calls modern reconstructions of the march ‘pantomimes’ as they bear little resemblance to the truth. The German guards would threaten to shoot anyone who failed to keep pace with the group, but Henry cannot recall this occurring. Rather those men who fell behind were left to die from exposure to the cold.
The interview concludes with Henry’s post-war life in teaching, his family and what he became involved with once he retired.
Claire Campbell
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Dulag Luft
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
lack of moral fibre
navigator
perception of bombing war
prisoner of war
sanitation
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1123/11614/PSimmondsJE1701.2.jpg
618f3494008f7e19b194a907f9ca6882
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1123/11614/ASimmondsJE171114.1.mp3
75368cc2130c56e3cb7dcd43cae774fc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Simmonds, Jack Edward
J E Simmonds
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Squadron Leader Jack Simmonds (1920 - 2020, 67595 Royl Air Force). He flew operations as pilot with 77 Squadron until he was shot down and became a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Simmonds, JE
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CJ: This is Chris Johnson and I’m interviewing Jack Simmonds today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We are at Jack’s home and it is Tuesday the 14th of November 2017. Thank you, Jack for agreeing to talk to me today. Also present at the interview is Jack’s son, Paul. So, Jack, first of all perhaps could you tell us where and when you were born please and what your family background was?
JS: Yes. Yes. Firstly, I was born on the 8th of December 1920 and I was born in Gillingham in Kent and my father was a serving officer in the Royal Air Force. We, he had moved around a great deal and at that particular stage my mother had bought a house in Gillingham and that’s why I was born there. Otherwise we have no connection at all with that particular area. Fairly early on, when I was about five or six my father was posted to Egypt, and we moved out there and I stayed there for six years. I went to school in Victoria College in Alexandria and came back to the UK. As I said I was about six years, and we came back to Gillingham in Kent. I went for a short period to King’s, sorry to the Mathematical School at Rochester and when my father was posted again as also as people do we wondered around the UK following, following the parent. And my father was posted to Halton near Aylesbury and I spent about a year at Aylesbury Grammar School. Subsequently he was posted down to Worthy Down in Hampshire and we moved down to Winchester. I spent really the rest of my schooling at Peter Symonds School in Winchester, and I boarded there for a while when my father was posted away from Winchester to Brize Norton in Oxfordshire. I left school at the age of eighteen from, from Winchester and at that time was 1939 and the war was just about to start. After some discussion with my parents, I didn’t want to get conscripted into the Army or the Navy so I went to Oxford and volunteered to become a pilot. Now, it was difficult at that stage to select what category of aircrew you wanted to join but I was fortunate that, presumably because of my connection with the Air Force, they agreed that I should be nominated for pilot. Now, after that very little happened. I spent nearly six months at Selwyn College in Cambridge where they, I suppose tried to indoctrinate us in what the Air Force was about and doing some odd things like stripping down a machine gun and that sort of thing. And after that I was posted to — I can’t remember my number. I think it was 11 Elementary, Elementary Flying Training School at Coventry, and I obviously learned to fly and was taught flying on Tiger Moths. Now, at that stage of the war where the air force was extremely short of pilots, they were being shot down and killed all over the place, and for some reason or other I was not sent from Elementary Flying Training School to Flying Training School. They for some reason decided that they would try and see if they could avoid the elementary, the Flying Training School stage. So we were sent, about six of us from, from Coventry — or not. No. We weren’t all from Coventry. They were from, I think around the country, down to Abingdon. To the, I think it was number 11 Operational Training Unit. I’m not quite sure of the number. And we were taught, we were then presented with the fact that we were going to go straight on to the operational aircraft. the Whitley. From the Tiger Moth straight to Whitley. And we spent, in fact really we were quite an embarrassment because we were just airmen. We weren’t NCOs. We weren’t officers. We couldn’t use the sergeants’ mess, couldn’t use the officers’ mess. So, eventually they cleared a couple of married quarters and gave us those and allocated us a corner of the sergeant’s mess to eat and so on. I stayed there until I was qualified and in that same time I got my wings. And I stayed at Abingdon for probably about four months, I can’t remember exactly until I was qualified as a, as a Whitley pilot and then posted to 51 Squadron in Dishforth. I did my first couple of operations. My first operations were from Dishforth, and after about, I don’t know how many months — probably two or three months, I was commissioned. I was — by the way when I left Abingdon I was then made a sergeant. So I was a sergeant at Dishforth and then suddenly I was commissioned and moved, posted to Topcliffe, 77 Squadron. They also, of course had Whitleys. There was two squadrons there. 77 and 102 I think. The — I started my operational flying there obviously and on about my seventh or eighth one, I can’t remember, operation I was shot down over the Ruhr and we had a little bit of a problems maintaining our — by the way my navigator was wounded when we were caught by anti-aircraft fire. He got a lump of flak through his chest and so we obviously couldn’t bale out because he was flat out on the floor. And we went on for about half an hour or so on one, on one engine and eventually we, that failed and we crash landed in a sort of a swamp, about, I don’t know how many miles, about, about twenty miles short of Eindhoven I think. The, the swamp itself was not quite deep enough to sink but nearly, and I remember getting out and going around the back, getting the back door open and trying to smash the IFF thing that we were told to try and destroy if we had a chance. And during this period we got the navigator out and sat him on the top of the fuselage. He was still alive, and by that time there were Germans who apparently, we subsequently found had been following us by radar, Germans coming up the road which was about, probably about a couple of hundred metres from where we landed. And they took us to a radar station and then I went off to jail in Rotterdam. And I was there for — I don’t know really, probably three, two or three weeks. And the interesting thing about that was we were, I was interviewed by a so-called Red Cross person who offered me cigarettes and things and then tried to, to find out where I came from and me and my squadron who — you know. Trying to interrogate, and then after about three weeks in jail I was sent down to Frankfurt to the — I think it was a reception camp. And I remember being quite, I suppose shocked by the fact that some of the inmates there had settled into the, to the arrangements in the camp and were apparently cooperating I suppose with the locals. The only chance, the only time they tried then to, to interrogate me was at, for some reason they removed all my clothes and I was in this room and this, this Hauptman, a major [pause] He was a Luftwaffe major, immaculately dressed in white and boots and all that and tried to investigate where I came from and who I was and where, you know what the names of my crew were, and what my, my target for that night was and so on. Just generally tried to, to find out information. The next thing that happened about six or eight of us were shoved on a train and sent down to Salzburg. We were in — I can’t remember the name of the — I think it was Oflag something 6. I don’t know. So, it was army. It was army officers there and they were again a bit settled in their ways. They were a little bit resentful of, of half a dozen young and feisty aircrew coming in. We stayed there for, I can’t remember, say three months. I don’t know. And then we were sent to Leipzig. Now, Salzburg to Leipzig was a long way [laughs] and we went unfortunately by cattle truck, and I think we took seven days, and it wasn’t a very pleasant time as you imagine. When we got to, to the camp at Leipzig it had just been evacuated by Russian prisoners of war and was really derelict. There was nothing there. Virtually. And I know one thing that I had obtained when I was down at Salzburg was that I met a friend of mine who was an army officer who I had known some couple of years before. And he managed to obtain for me a nice blanket. A pale blue blanket which, I enjoyed mine. And I got to Leipzig. The first thing they did, one goon said, ‘That’s mine.’ and whipped it. The only thing that really strikes me about Lubeck was that it was bare. You know, it was very, very austere. We, we were very, very badly treated there. Very poor food. In fact we managed to catch the camp cat and cooked that. We went from there to Warburg to another army camp. That was about, Warburg was about the centre of Germany somewhere. I’m not quite sure. I know a lot of army, army people there. They were all, of course they were all officers and most had been, been there since, since 1939/40. That sort of time. We were there for, I don’t know probably six months at least when we upped again and were sent off to Poland. We went to a place called Posen (Poznan?) I think it was in Poland. Which was not very far from Danzig. About forty miles south of Danzig. The, the terrain there was very, very soft and sandy, and I know that particularly because digging tunnels was very, very difficult. You, you were going through the ground and you had behind you had [unclear] and that was very scary. We stayed there for perhaps [pause] perhaps a year. I don’t know. But we were posted or were posted, sent off to Stalag Luft, Stalag Luft 3. Now, people first, everybody says to me, ‘Did you go to Stalag Luft 3?’, and I said, ‘Yes’, and they said, ‘Were you in the big escape?’ And people didn’t understand that in Stalag Luft 3 there were two camps. The North Camp and the East Camp, and I was in the East Camp, and the big escape took place from the North Camp. The only escape of significant importance I think from our place was the two that got away in the horse. The — we used to take it out every day and pop it in the middle of a field and little did they realise that when we carried it out we had two people in them, and we put it down in the same place and they were digging a tunnel out and —
CJ: This was the wooden exercise horse if I remember.
JS: The wooden horse. Yes. And we were fairly, it was fairly easy to dispose of all the tunnels there because when we carried the, the wooden horse out to the playing field the, there were big paths through sort of sacks we’d made of our bed blankets and we could walk around the perimeter track and sort of let this go. So all the rubbish that they had dug from that tunnel was disposed around the camp. These two were successful. They got out and I think both of them made, made it to Sweden, I think. I think, and I think one was Swedish at any rate. We stayed there. I was in Stalag Luft 3 for about two years, and one night they, because by that time the movement of the war the Russians were, were approaching from the east. And incidentally in where I was in the, in Stalag Luft 3 we had what we called JH which stands for Jimmy Higgins. Anybody who’s been in Stalag Luft 3 East camp would know who that is because we’d arranged — we had a boffin who had got, bribed the guard to bring him bits of wireless equipment and we’d built alongside a table a radio. And so we knew exactly what was going on from UK, and every night, at whatever time it was we used to close down the place. Make certain there were no, no ferrets underneath there. People. Ferrets who wandered around looking for tunnels, and they used to give us an update of the UK news. So, although the Germans were, were propagating all the news over the biggest tunnels we actually knew what was really going on. We left there one, I think Friday night in, in February I think it was when the Russians were approaching, and the Germans decided to walk us out and we walked from there to [pause] I’m trying to remember the name of the place. A place called Luckenwalde which was about, I suppose about thirty kilometres south of Berlin. And we hadn’t been there very long and again I don’t know how long that was before a Russian small tank group probably consisting of six Soviet tanks arrived, and we fortunately had a Russian speaker. Somebody within, within our group. No matter what you wanted. Could speak Swahili or whatever. There was always somebody there because you know they gathered the aircrew from quite a wide range of, of population, and he was dealing with the, with the young I suppose. He was a lieutenant and I can remember being very amazed that all the tanks, these six or so tanks covered with people, Russians, and he said half of them were females and you couldn’t tell. And he said, one of the things he said was that he had great trouble in in communicating with his troop because they didn’t all speak the same language. Some came from Uzbekistan or somewhere. They spoke, didn’t speak Russian, and so he had great trouble. I know we had great difficulty with one of their, the Russians who decided he wanted to take watches, and he went around some of the officers and sort of said, ‘Your watch’, and we complained to this young lad, this young officer, and he said [unclear] and so he called this fellow. This fellow had a whole heap of watches at the time. And they took him out and shot him. Bang. One of the things that was extraordinary that happened that one of the tanks decided to go around the camp taking down all the barbed wire. Just tore the lights and the communications, everything with them. The lot. So, we really were, we were really a bit concerned whether the locals were going to be friendly or not, and I can remember one morning when we were sort of, we were free really. We could have gone anywhere. We went off to a building we could see about a half a mile away and it turned out to be one of these army stores and I could have picked up all sorts of gorgeous things there. Like, do you know the lovely, those lovely red flags they had in Germany with the big swastika on the bottom? But they were much too heavy to carry. But I did pick up a few, a few German — not medals but they were, they were campaign things, and I’ve still got those somewhere. We, we stayed there sort of really in limbo for a while. And I was down on the gate. We tried to maintain a semblance of, of a gate when some Americans arrived in a, in a, I think it’s a scout car, you know. One of the things that you drove. You drive one way or the other. And so two of us got on that one and they took us back to their base and then took us up to Brussels, and I flew from Brussels back to the UK. And that was sort of my war.
CJ: Very interesting. Thank you. So, what happened to you when you got home then and what did you do following on from that?
JS: Well, the end of the war I was sent up somewhere. I can’t remember where. Up in the Midlands. Really, I suppose to rehabilitate myself. And they put us all around the place like down a coal mine and up a and up a steel mill and those sorts of things. And eventually I decided that I would attempt to stay in the air force. And they sent me to, to Cairo. And I was at the headquarters in Cairo for about six months and that started to fold up and then I was sent to, to Lydda which is now Lod, in Palestine as the station adjutant. And I stayed there for about — oh I don’t know. Six months. Until they decided, the Air Force decided to give me a permanent commission in the Air Force. And I went from there to the army really. I was sent as the adjutant of an army cooperation squadron, air squadron which was flying Oxfords. And so I spent about three — oh more than that I think. Probably a year or more with the army. Flying officers all over Palestine and it was very fortunate really in a way because you had your own private aeroplane really. I used to fly off to Oman for the weekend and down to the Canal Zone for the weekend. You know, that’s as if I had a taxi of my own. Then I was very, very sports minded at the time and I was playing hockey for the squadron against another army unit and the Irish Fusiliers I think it was, and the goalkeeper smashed me across the face and knocked my front teeth out. And they decided to send me home to try and get that fixed up. And so that ended my, my time in the Middle East. And when I got back to the UK having been fixed up with some teeth, they sent me up to somewhere. Wyton or somewhere, to fly Wellington, Wellingtons, Wellingtons. Well, I converted on to Wellingtons then. Having done that they sent me to up, further up to Yorkshire to convert onto the replacement for the Lancaster which was the Lincoln, and of course the Lincoln was never introduced into the Air Force. Although I did about a hundred hours or a hundred and fifty hours on Lincoln. That’s really, they withdrew it for some reason or other. And I was sent down to, to Calshot to convert to flying boats and I flew Sunderlands. I converted on to Sunderlands there. Then after conversion was posted to Pembroke Dock. 201 Squadron. And I stayed there for a couple of years I suppose when we, we did a Cook’s Tour of, of America in the flying boat. We went to Newfoundland and Iceland and Newfoundland and Virginia and Jamaica and so on just going really on a jolly. Whilst I was at Pembroke Dock I was flight commander of the squadron because our squadron commander had had gone a bit — he, taking off one night he hit a, hit something with, with his throat and knocked that off and he went a bit queer so I was flight commander of the squadron and they one day they came in about, about Battle of Britain time asking for an aeroplane to go up to the Thames. So being flight commander I said, ‘That’s mine.’ So, I went up there and met the Port of London Authority and they drove me up and down the Thames awhile on one of their boats and I selected somewhere to land down near Greenwich. And I landed for Battle of Britain weekend at Greenwich and this [unclear] from the Port of London Authority met me and led me all the way up to Tower Bridge and they opened Tower Bridge for me [laughs] And they’d already put a buoy just outside Queen’s Gate and I moored up there and stayed in the Tower of London with the, the commander. I can’t remember what they were. The Scots Guards, I think. I can’t remember. Stayed there for six months. Sorry, six days, and then we, then all we did was return I think. We just about turned and drove back down to Greenwich and took off and straight over Buckingham Palace. Right down the Mall. And then I went back to, to Pembroke Dock. And after Pembroke Dock I was promoted there, and sent to St Mawgan as the chief ground instructor of the Maritime School there. And I stayed there for [pause] I don’t know, six months, a year, and then I was posted to the Navy in Portland. They had what they called an Access B tactical teacher. Which our job, our job was to work out the, the destroyers for the Navy. And we had a large building in which we laid on games and I had a — my colleagues were a submariner and task officer torpedo anti-submarine and myself as the airman. And we used to play games for them and had a great screen and projected all the activities while they were closed up back somewhere in the, in the back of beyond. And then having run games for them we would then give them what’s up, what they should have been doing and that was — I spent again a year, two years at, at Portland doing that job. Then I went to Saffron Walden which was part of the Royal Air Force Technical School. I spent a year there doing a signals course, and the object of the exercise was to, to produce a band of officer who could act as, as a liaison between the technician and the aircrew. And so we went for a year. We wandered all around the country and halfway around the world too looking at radars and communications systems and all that rubbish. And then, then I was posted to, to a job at Northwood in Middlesex, and I stayed there for probably about four months or more. Maybe six months. How long were you, were we at Northwood?
PS: We missed, we missed out Cyprus dad.
JS: Oh God. I went from — no went from —
PS: We went from Medmenham to Cyprus.
JS: Medmenham. We went — just a minute. We went from Portland to, no we went we went from Debden the school, Technical College, to Medmenham and then Medmenham we went to, to Northwood.
PS: Cyprus. Medmenham to Cyprus.
JS: Cyprus. Cyprus. We stayed there for what, two years?
PS: Two and a half years. Yeah.
JS: Yeah. And I came back from there, and —
PS: Did six months in West Malling.
JS: Yeah. Well, I wasn’t posted there.
PS: No. It was just a stopover.
JS: I was only there for accommodation because we got a married quarter there. And then from there I went to, to Northwood. Stayed in Northwood for a while.
PS: That was two years.
JS: Was it two years? Yeah. And then I was posted to the Air Ministry to, to be sort of a PA to the, he was an army general who was head of the Joint Services Communications.
PS: We went from Northwood to Lindholme.
JS: No. I didn’t. No. I didn’t. I went to this job in the, in the, in the Air Ministry which was, really it was a [unclear] I didn’t like at all and I got, I got on to the, to the Air Ministry, the people in the in P staff in the Air Ministry and said, ‘I want out’, and they said, ‘You can, if you wish to, retire.’ So, I said, ‘Right. I’m going.’ And I retired from my job in the Air Ministry and I came, we bought this house. I came down here. I got a job. Incidentally, before I decided to leave the Air Force I decided to find out a little bit about business and, you know trying to get a job. And so I went to, I think it was the South West College to do an HNC in Business Studies and just after that the, I think it was Wilson started the Open University and I joined that as well and got a Bachelor of Arts and that in Sociology and Economics. And later on when I was again working down in Maidstone I joined Kent University and got a Masters in Management. But I jump from leaving the Air Force to getting a job. I joined a management consultancy in London and spent probably nearly six months or more than that. More like three years wandering around the country doing jobs for them. All sorts of investigatory things like, for instance I went to, to a, an architect in London and they said to me we want to set up a new salary scheme. And so I spend my time, you know interviewing all the locals and deciding what I think [unclear] I did some work in local authorities. I worked in a number of, of — I worked down in Brecon. I worked in many of the London boroughs and after I’d been there for a while I was getting a bit fed up with moving around again like I’d done in the Air Force and I found a job in Maidstone as the personnel manager of the Borough Council down there. I stayed there for five years I think and I retired completely from there.
CJ: Very good.
JS: Then I played golf for a while.
PS: For a long time.
JS: For a few years. And then I became too old to play golf.
CJ: One question about aircraft. Coming back to your RAF times, given the experience you had on the later types, how did they compare with the Whitley that you were flying during the war?
JS: Oh. The Whitley was antediluvian. I mean it was so slow. It had no, no navigation device at all. No Gee. No H2S. Nothing like that. So, you were relying on DR really. Dropping a flare out and taking a drift and trying to calculate where you were on your course and speed calculator. You could carry a four thousand pound bomb. With that on board you could get to probably ten thousand feet. Twelve thousand feet perhaps if you were lucky. You could get about a hundred knots out of it [pause] downwind. No. It was, it was a terrible aeroplane. Awful. And it was so vulnerable you had a, you had a rear gunner, you had an upper gunner but night-time you couldn’t see a night fighter, you know. The, the defence. You were absolutely defenceless really and the attrition rate was very high.
CJ: And after the war were you able to keep in touch with people you knew from your squadron?
JS: No.
CJ: Or from the prisoner of war camps?
JS: No. No. I tried once to go to a Prisoner of War dinner in London. And it was really a failure because they’d all dispersed to other things and you had nothing in common anymore.
CJ: Was there a Squadron Association?
JS: I didn’t follow it up at all.
CJ: And how do you think Bomber Command were treated after the war for those — ?
JS: I never had a problem personally but I think that one of the things that one understood about Bomber Command was that they felt that they were sort of aggressive rather than, rather than defensive. But I mean Fighter Command are completely different or Bomber Command were. Well they’re not — I don’t think they appreciated what we were trying to do. Anybody. I never had any trouble personally.
CJ: Well, thank you very much for speaking to us today.
JS: That’s alright.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack Edward Simmonds
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Johnson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-14
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASimmondsJE171114, PSimmondsJE1701
Format
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00:49:41 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Poland
England--Yorkshire
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Simmonds was the son of an RAF serviceman. As a result his childhood was spent moving around a great deal including a few years in Egypt. He joined the RAF and began training as a pilot. He joined 51 Squadron as a Whitley pilot at RAF Dishforth before transferring to 77 Squadron at RAF Topcliffe. Coming under attack the navigator was injured and so was unable to bale out forcing Jack to crash land. The surviving crew became Prisoners of War. He was sent to Stalag Luft 3 where he took an active part in the Wooden Horse escape.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Chris Johnson
51 Squadron
77 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Dulag Luft
Lincoln
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Abingdon
RAF Dishforth
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Topcliffe
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 3
Sunderland
the long march
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1039/11411/AMulhallJE160823.1.mp3
673bbe19930c11fe8fca198bcc140a3e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mulhall, James
James Edward Mulhall
J E Mulhall
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with James Mulhall (b. 1924, 224223 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 75 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-23
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mulhall, JE
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JM1: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Julian Maslin. The interviewee is James Mulhall. The interview is taking place at Mr Mulhall’s home in Heaton Chapel, Stockport on the 25th of August 2016. Jim, could you tell us a little bit about your life before you joined the RAF and what it was that motivated you to enlist?
JM2: The main thing I should imagine, I was born in Gorton, at 151 Hyde Road, which was my grandmother’s house and subsequent schooling was at Catholic schools, the last one being St Roberts in Longsight. I, er, was tending towards mechanical things at a fairly early age but I was apprenticed as a plumber to a man called Frank Butler for some years before the Blitz became something of a nuisance in Manchester. So, it was while I was in — my sister and mother used to nip down to the Anderson shelter in the garden but I was too lazy to do this and used to stay in bed, until a bomb dropped nearby which decapitated a man in the next street and forced me under the bed, and I didn’t like this idea at all, so I decided when the time was ripe I’d join the Air Force and get a little bit of my own back. So, er, this is how it transpired I became an Air Force [slight cough] member. The — I was inaugurated at Dover Street in Manchester, went to Padgate for initial training, was sent to Skegness for the usual square bashing and then on from there to St Athan to train as a mechanic, and from there back to Henlow to assemble hurricanes as a mechanic. They came over from Canada in boxes and we put them together, put the wings on and flew them off to squadrons. From there on I decided — well, I was able to go into aircrew and I went back to St Athan to train as a flight engineer and that began the system that we’re talking about now.
JM1: Thank you and what year was that please?
JM2: 1942. In November I joined up and I left in February 1946.
JM1: Right. From St Athan did you go straight to an Operational Training Unit?
JM2: We went to, er, RAF Stradishall to con on Stirlings because I was trained on Stirlings. Spent thirteen weeks, believe it or not, in learning every nook and cranny of this aircraft which was a horrible, awful airplane from my point of view, all electrical and a real nuisance to get about because of this. It had four radial engines, twin row, fourteen cylinder, sleeve-valve, air-cooled engines which are a nightmare to maintain. However, while, whilst doing Con Unit we got the opportunity or were offered to change to Lancasters which we did to a place called Feltwell. And while everybody else’s job was the same, mine was totally different. I had four liquid cooled, twelve cylinder, in line engines to cope with as well as completely diff— different systems of doughty and pressure volumes for the various systems in the aircraft. I got a fortnight to do this and I didn’t enjoy it at all I must admit so presumably I learnt as I went along in Con Unit more or less and got away with it fortunately.
JM1: When you were operating Lancasters did you work closely with the ground engineers?
JM2: That was my job entirely [emphasis]. The rest of the crew weren’t interested in the aeroplane as a mechanical object. All they were interested in really was in flying in it. But my liaison with the ground crew was uppermost in this system because I had to go to every morning, well at least after every operation, after I had a sleep to go and run the engines and get the aircraft ready for flight either that afternoon or evening and sign the 700, which I might point out was always the pilot’s duty in the years before, but when it came to four-engine aircraft and the flight engineer being trained to look after these systems he [emphasis] had to sign the 700, which for a nineteen-year-old was quite a, a thing to do because it hands the aircraft over to me, away from the ground crew. They then relinquish all [slight cough] responsibility for it so, yes, I had a great deal to do with the ground crew.
JM1: And when you were posted to 75 Squadron — I’ll go back a bit. When you crewed up with your crew how was that done please?
JM2: [laugh] In the most ambiguous way you can imagine. The crew had been working together as a crew, six members, flying Wimpys, Vickers Wellingtons, and so were well acquainted with one another over a period of two or three months I would imagine. Then one evening, when we’d passed out as engineers, they assembled all these crews that they intended to crew up with the engineers into the theatre at St Athan, which was quite a massive affair, and when they were all seated nattering to themselves us crews were ushered in and said, ‘Go and find yourself a crew.’ [laugh] We were flabbergasted there’s no doubt about it. Literally we were faced with all these pancake faces who we didn’t know from Adam and had to sort ourselves out and I finished up by going up to one chap I fancied the look of and I said, ‘Do you fancy me as an engineer?’ And he turned out to be Hugh Rees and he said, ‘Certainly. What’s your name?’ I said, ‘James Mul—’ ‘No.’ He said, ‘What’s your name?’ ‘Oh.’ I said, ‘Jim’. He said, ‘Well, I’m Hugh, this is Westie and this is Rees [?].’ And that’s how we went from there on in and it worked.
JM1: That’s remarkable isn’t it?
JM2: It surprised me I must admit.
JM1: It must have been difficult for you in that, in that atmosphere. It must have been very stressful.
JM2: I was very much the new boy with the cloak of fear, as you might say, surrounding the whole thing, yeah.
JM1: And were you then posted to 75 Squadron?
JM2: No. We had to con from there on in. We went to Stradashall to start flying Stirlings. All of us being strangers to that aeroplane and it was whilst we were there that the offer came. Well, more or less it came nearly as an order to tra— because of the losses in Bomber Command on Lancasters, which had a, a height minimum of five foot six before and I was five foot five and a half and others were small, as small as me, particularly the gunners, and, er, from there on in we transferred to Lancasters at a place called Feltwell and, as I’ve already said, that was the initial inauguration with the aeroplane and we had to come to terms with it from there on in.
JM1: But the posting to the squadron was something that you didn’t have any choice about. You, you were posted to 75?
JM2: No. We didn’t have any choice from that, no. We were posted as a crew to 75 Squadron.
JM1: And of course 75 was unusual because it was a New Zealand Squadron.
JM2: It was but there was a pretty scarcity of New Zealanders on the base, whether from losses or otherwise, I wouldn’t know. We had one New Zealander, New Zealander in our crew, and that was Westie, the bomb aimer. Westie his name was. A pretty ferocious character in his way and he wouldn’t mind me saying this but, er, he was always looking for trouble [laugh]. I never got on with him really because as he was on Stirlings he was second pilot on the Stirling where I was posted way, halfway, down the fuselage with all my gear as the flight engineer, but when we conned on Lancasters I [emphasis] became the second pilot and, unfortunately, Westie was dismissed into the bomb pit and he never got over this, so if he could drop me in the fertiliser he would do [laugh] and on some occasions did.
JM1: In what way?
JM2: Well, we came home one night and it was nearly dark and I was always last out the aeroplane. I had a lot of breakers and stuff to do and gather things up and I was always last out the aeroplane. As everybody else got out as quickly as they could, you know, to breathe the fresh air from the confines of the aeroplane and, er, when I came to get out of the rear door there’s no ladder. There used to be a little short ladder there and it’s about five, six foot to the ground and I said, ‘Where’s the ladder? Well, I don’t know. It must have fell out.’ Colloquial language to that effect and I didn’t get any reply from the darkness and I thought, ‘Somebody’s playing up or what. Come on.’ Anyway, I thought, ‘Oh, never mind.’ And I threw my bag out to one side so I wouldn’t drop on it when I jumped out. Decided to make the jump in the darkness, completely black, and I did so and landed in the largest puddle you’d ever seen in your life, to roars of laughter from everybody roundabout. So that’s one of the instances where Westie set me up and there were others of course along the way.
JM1: Did you get your own back?
JM2: Eventually. Unhappily [laugh] but anyway that’s another story.
JM1: OK. So once you were posted to 75 Squadron. That was at Mepal?
JM2: Meth— Mepal.
JM1: Mepal. Mepal. Could you tell us what it was like serving at Mepal in Cambridgeshire? What sort of a, a base was it?
JM2: It was a bit rough and ready. It’s, er, it was a satellite drome. Witchford was next door and Waterbeach was about ten or fifteen miles away. It was the parent aerodrome at that time. It was a bit uncomfortable in its way. The food was alright but the Nissan huts we were put, billeted in had no heating. We had a little potbellied stove which we used to steal coke to try and get warm and we used to steal it from the cookhouse, which we weren’t very popular with, er, but warmth was always at a premium on the base particularly in the later months, October and November, but the villagers were very good and fortunately I struck up an acquaintance with one of a girls in the village, so that made life a lot more pleasant [laugh] at 75.
JM1: Was it one crew per Nissan hut or more than one crew per Nissan hut?
JM2: We had two and sometimes spare bodies but there was no more than two full crews in a Nissan hut.
JM1: And did you ever have occasions where you had returned but the other crew were lost?
JM2: Unfortunately, yes, on many occasions when they came round, the SPs, Special Police, came round bundling up the kit into bags and emptying the lockers, and we knew then that, er, not only were they missing but they weren’t expected to come back.
JM1: How did you cope with that as a crew and as an individual?
JM2: We were all very young, you see, and you, you tend to adapt. I was only nineteen and I don’t think anybody was older than about twenty-two or twenty-three. In fact, the skipper was a month younger than I was. Fancy being in command of a Lancaster at nineteen years of age. Hugh Rees was his name. In fact, my son-in-law is in contact with his son at this particular time, yeah. So, er, you cope with it. Its empty tables around the mess for, for meals. Empty seats was another thing you learnt to cope with, so — but as I say being young you just adapted. You were thankful to survive.
JM1: Can we turn now to your operations? Could you tell us a bit about your first operation? How you felt and what happened?
JM2: [slight laugh] It was, er, a daylight raid to the U-Boat pens at St Nazaire and as we were under radar, flying at under two thousand feet, and only climbing to the operational height of ten thousand as we approached the target. As we were the third wave in we were startled to see the sky literally black with ak-ak puff smokes and as a green crew this, er, didn’t look very pleasant to us at all but we were to learn of course that these weren’t the things which we were to worry about. It was the ones that we didn’t see that we had to worry about. However, we got through the, the business of dropping the load on the U-Boat pens, notwithstanding seeing a flamer on the left and a flamer on the right, going down both the port and starboard sides, which wasn’t encouraging. However, we got through it and the frightening period [unclear]. We were never ever that frightened again, I don’t think, in targets unless we were coned over search— over on the run in to Rüsselsheim we were coned by searchlights and that was a pretty scary time because we were blinded by the searchlights. We couldn’t see a thing, ducking and weaving and we managed to outfly them with little damage. That was another scary raid but most of them were just enduring the cold and getting through the operation as safely as possible.
JM1: So, when you came back from that first trip to St Nazaire, how long did you have before you had your second operation?
JM2: Oh, I can’t remember that. I think it was about three or four days. The battle order used to be posted up on the, on the mess door, and that was always the thing we looked at first when we got up in the morning before breakfast. Check the battle order, see if you were on it and, er, that’s four or five days I think. Let us settle down before they flung us in again.
JM1: If you, if you were flying that night, if you were on operations, your day would start quite early as the flight engineer presumably, helping getting everything ready?
JM2: Yeah, yeah. Even if I weren’t on battle order I’d still be going up to flights to check the aircraft and see if anything needed rectifying in, in the meantime even if we weren’t. I can only remember two occasions when we weren’t on the battle order, to be quite candid. So, er, we pulled our weight I think.
JM1: I’m sure you did. How many of your operations were daylight operations?
JM2: Oh, I can’t remember that now.
JM1: Roughly.
JM2: I’d say about ten. Nine or ten operations were in daylight, yeah.
JM1: And when you first started to operate at night did that give you as an engineer extra problems in terms of reading the gauges and controlling the engines and the fuel?
JM2: Well, I had to make a log out every twenty minutes and so I had to use a shaded torch to do this. I might have taken my gloves off incidentally which was a dangerous practice. We all had three sets off gloves, silk, cotton and leather and these we kept on all the time until I had to make log out when I had to take the gauntlet and the, er, cotton gloves off so that I could write my log out easily with a pencil and the shaded light. But there was a danger in this, in-as-much-as, the outside temperature of the aircraft round about twenty-two thousand, twenty-four thousand feet was often minus forty degrees, and this meant that the skin of the aircraft and metal things inside it was a similar thing, and if you happened to not use our gloves — and Tee Emm used to report this often enough — and reach for the tank cocks in a rush realising you should have changed cocks before. If you got hold of those with your bare hands that’s where you stayed because the sweat on your hands froze, your fingers, to any metal you touched near the skin of the aircraft. So, I was always careful to keep my gloves on obvious. But some engineers wouldn’t write with cotton gloves on and there were a number of occasions when this happened and was reported in the aircrew magazine of Tee Emm, pointing out the dangers of not doing this.
JM1: So, Tee Emm was an official document or an unofficial?
JM2: It was an official document, a magazine, circulated to aircrew. [laugh] The editor being Pilot Officer Prune who was always subject to these kind of things, yeah.
JM1: And for the record I think it was TEE EMM, wasn’t it? TEE EMM.
JM2: Yes, TEE EMM.
JM1: Thank you. And, in order to do your duties when the aircraft was flying, you wouldn’t be keeping still, you’d be walking up and down the side of the cockpit to the various controls?
JM2: I had a little collapsible seat, which I used I could, but most of the time because I had to reach behind for tank cocks and checking gauges the engineer’s panel was behind the seat on the star— on the starboard side of the aircraft. So it was a nuisance to keep getting up out of the seat. I used to stand most of the time and just lean down with my shaded torch, and flash it slightly, and the luminosity from the gauges would tell me what was going on.
JM1: Did you have any occasions where your aircraft had to return because of mechanical problems so you didn’t complete a sortie?
JM2: No. But we had one occasion I once lost an engine entirely in a Stirling but that’s a different story. The — I once had a CSU go geodetic, which meant that I couldn’t change the pitch, the revs, of the engine concerned, which was the starboard outer, and I reported this. We would take-off roughly at three thousand thousand RPM plus four boost, and we can maintain that for up to nine minutes, but then we have to reduce the revs to take the wear out of the engine, and this was my job to reduce it to climbing power once we’d reached the required height, but I couldn’t shut down the rev counter. I said, ‘This is going to make the engine overtired in its way and become a danger to the aeroplane and I suggest that we return.’ So the pilot said, ‘What can you do about this?’ And I said, ‘Nothing really. I can’t. It’s gone geodetic at the engine end and I can’t pull the lever back so I can’t reduce the revs.’ I said, ‘All I can do is try to keep it cool with a little bit of boost now and then and just hope it doesn’t exceed the limits of heat that it can stand. Because if it does it will cease and the prop will fly off and it will probably come in our direction if this occurs. It might even shake itself out of the bearings. I don’t know. I’ve never had a ceased up engine. I’ve never had a runaway before.’ So he said, ‘Well do the best you can. We’ll press on.’ I thought, ‘This was a rash decision in my opinion but there’s nothing I can do. He’s the captain of the aircraft.’ Fortunately, within half an hour we had an abort. The raid was called off, so we were able to run back to the aerodrome with an emergency and land with the aircraft running at full revs. That engine run for an hour and half at full revs and never missed a beat. Congratulations Rolls Royce. It was changed of course but, er, incredible really for an engine of that size.
JM1: Jim, Jim could I ask you to explain what you mean the word “boost” for those listening?
JM2: Oh, this is a question of pumping more fuel into the cylinders to improve the volume metric efficiency of the engine at that time. Plus four gives us the best we can do. Plus two is what we usually fly at. Our normal air speed is a hundred and eighty, hundred and ninety knots and it depends on height really how much you can boost but plus two is normal at two thousand two hundred revs.
JM1: Your memory, your memory for operating the Lancaster is remarkable.
JM2: Sometimes, in the dark hours [slight laugh], it seems like yesterday.
JM1: Jim, could you tell us a little bit about the atmosphere in the aeroplane when you were operating at night over Germany or enemy occupied Europe. What was it like there?
JM2: Its — you have to remember that there’s literally hundreds of aircraft converging on one target and the risk of collision at night is very, very high and this is one of the things that I think we feared most. In fact, on one occasion, we had on the bomb run, we had six incendiaries from another aeroplane hit our aeroplane because they were above us at a height they shouldn’t have been at, presumably to escape the — most of the flak, which was at operational height, and those incendiaries only failed to ignite because the pins were frozen in. They have a — it’s, about two foot long but hexagonal in shape and the igniter pin sticks out at the side but they’re held in by straps when they’re carried in the canisters that were in the aeroplane, but when they‘re released this little pin springs out so that when they hit the ground the detonator will go off and the magnesium will flare, but because they were frozen in they didn’t ignite when they hit our aircraft. So that was — we, I fished one out from underneath the navigator’s table. One of them knocked my engineer’s pile [?] down on the starboard side and one finished up on the platform of the mid upper gunner’s position. None of them ignited but three others were found by the ground crew piercing each wing and where the tail — the rudder stands up and the tail plane is horizontal — right in that nick there was another incendiary buried in that nick. Why, why the rudder didn’t come off I don’t know [laugh] but that, that was a case of being very close to another aeroplane at night. It was a fear most of us carried I think, collision at night. In fact, er, there’s one instance of we actually saw another plane below us because of the fires on the target. What he was doing down there I don’t know but he was below us. Fortunately he was to one side. But we could see him he was silhouetted against the flare of the fires and we were on the bomb run. What he was doing there I don’t know. I hope he got away with it. Most of it was radio silence because you had to keep intercom clear for emergencies.
JM1: I was just going to ask about that and how did you address one another? Was it pilot to flight engineer or was it first names?
JM2: No, it was always by the designation: pilot, engineer, bomb aimer, mid upper, wireless op, whatever, to make it clear who you were talking to and who was talking to you.
JM1: Yes. Did you have any, um, attacks from night fighters during your operational tour?
JM2: Curiously enough we were flying — when we went to Stettin, we overflew Denmark and Norway and our mid upper who was forty-two years old and well above the age for flying — he should — flying’s limited to people of thirty-five years. How he got away with that I don’t know. He must have been [unclear] somewhere. He had the finest eyesight I ever came across and while we were going over Norway he happened to see a flare path and we what? We were round about ten thousand feet I think. We weren’t too high. And these neutral countries used to fire flak up towards us but always well away from us, never with any no intention of shooting us down, but a token resistance as it were. And he happened to see a flare path at that distance and an aircraft with its nav lights on, going along that flare path, and he warned the skipper of this and he actually, he kept its nav lights on for quite some while, in fact until it was about a thousand feet below us when it switched off. It was obviously being vectored onto us and we watched it rise up along the side of us until our mid upper said to the rear gunner, Charlie, not rear gunner, but Charlie, ‘Let me have the first squirt at it.’ [slight laugh] And it actually rose alongside us about a hundred yards away with the pilot obviously looking upwards to look for our exhaust flames. We’d got eight blue exhaust flames going underneath the aircraft wing which were easily seen at night, particularly from underneath, and he must have been looking for those and not either side of himself. And both gunners had a, what they called, a squirt at it and it fell away but they didn’t, they only claimed a probable. We didn’t know what happen to it but it certainly fell away.
JM1: Had you ever discuss as a crew whether you would [emphasis] open fire because I know some gunners decided not to because they were afraid of drawing attention to themselves?
JM2: Well, funnily enough, we got some tracer coming towards us when we were getting close to the target and we didn’t know what, where it was coming from, but it passed underneath us. But the following day the ground crew dug a 303 bullet out of the tail wheel rims, so it was obviously a friendly aircraft. And the tail wheel had the double rims on it to stop it shimmying and it was that thickness of rubber that caught the, the bullet and they were able to dig it out and prove that it was a 303. So it was a friendly aircraft that had a go at us for some reason.
JM1: How about the weather that you experienced on operations?
JM2: This was always a problem. You’ll get ten tenths cloud over the target. Yeah, tell that to the marines. It was obviously ten tenths all the way, you know. There’s another thing flying in cloud that used to be unnerving to say the least, even in daylight, because you never know — people — we had a direction compass on but you never know when there’s a fault and an aircraft will drift in your path, yeah. In fact, often enough, you would hit the slip stream of an aircraft in front of you and you’d would drop easily four, six hundred feet like a brick because you’ve got no airflow over your wings with the turbulent air that you met in the slip stream, and that used to pin me against the roof of the canopy in no uncertain terms so, er, apart from the cursing [?] we got used to it.
JM1: [slight laugh] Did you ever have to land in very bad conditions?
JM2: Only once. We were diverted by fog to a fighter aerodrome. I forget what — North Weald I think it was — however, the short runway meant that it was a bit of a hairy do to get, to get it down on a short runway which our skipper was pretty good at and made a good job of it. Unfortunately, their ground crew did not know anything about Lancasters, so it fell to me to climb up the following morning, up into the cells. In each cell there’s a little calor gas pump which you have to prime the engine with before you try and start it, and in full flying gear I had to climb up on the main wheel and operate these things, using the bomb aimer as communication between me and the cockpit, and the ground crew with a starter [unclear] and that was a real sweaty job believe me. Up in the confines pumping this calor gas until we got the engines started. I think that was another time when Westie dropped me in it, maybe did it twice. So I had to do that in both the cells and I was sweating like a pig when I got back into the aircraft. But that was the only problem with landing in a different aerodrome, the short runway and having to do the mechanics myself, yeah.
JM1: As, as the tour progressed did, did you feel that you were more or less likely to complete the tour?
JM2: I don’t think we, I don’t think we thought about it really until the last four. When, when we’d done the thirty we thought, what shall I say? We, we were testing fate there a bit. We were pushing the boat out a bit but we were determined to finish as a crew so we, we carried on with the odd four but as I say which turned out to be a fatal decision.
JM1: Because members of the crew had not been able to do all the flights in sequence. One or two were injured or sick?
JM2: That’s right. As I said before our bomb — our, er, wireless operator picked up some shrapnel over the Walcheren Islands and he was in hospital at the time and we had the signals leader with us. It was his one hundredth operation and you can imagine his mind, mind when he had to bail out at that time, [slight cough] notwithstanding the fact we all had to do.
Jm1: Will you tell us about that last operation please?
Jm2: It’s, er — we were due to pick up which was known as a yellow tail, which had special Oboe equipment for, er, target finding, and this was supposed to be done over Lincoln. We were supposed to be number two in a vic of three with any loose aeroplanes fitting the box afterwards. The box formation was for fighter defence [slight cough] primarily but unfortunately we didn’t pick up a yellow tail over Lincoln and we had to settle for going in the box, which was unpleasant place to be really, and we continued to target in this way until on the run in to target we got [slight cough] caught by what was known as predictive flak. This is four guns controlled by radar, which fired a burst of four shells, and if we’d been able to manoeuvre it was fairly easy to avoid but because we weren’t able to manoeuvre — it’s usually about seven to nine seconds between bursts so if the first burst missed you you’ve got this moment in time to change the aircraft latitude, speed or location so that the next burst doesn’t find you where you should be. So, you get used to this system and its fairly easy to devoid, to avoid predictive flak, but we were stuck in the box and not able to move and it slowly crept up, as reported by the rear gunner, getting close and closer, until one shell went through the back of the aircraft, without exploding, fortunately enough, but took away the bunch of controls that lead to the rudders and elevators and part of the tail plane and made the aircraft virtually uncontrollable. At this point they were — it was decided with the damage so obvious that to turn away out of the stream and, er, as the bomb doors were still closed, the bomb aimer did — went through his jettison programme but it doesn’t matter because until the bomb doors are fully open the bomb aimer’s gear will not work for obvious reasons. If he dropped them with the doors closed it would tear the bottom of the aircraft out [slight cough]. So, it was my job to open the bomb doors and jettison the bomb because Westie already gone. He didn’t hang about. He’d gone.
Jm1: Went out through the front hatch?
JM2: Yes. He jettisoned the hatch and went out there and I went behind the pilot’s seat where my parachute was. We had clip-on parachutes. The, the skipper had a sit on parachute. He had a base parachute and he sits on his. So, as I went to get it out of the rack the, er, the navigator and the wireless operator went past me and out through the hatch and I [unclear] harness pin and I went through the hatch as well. And the skipper had apparently had — I met him later on in Dulag Luft, near Frankfurt, in — his fingernails were all torn where he was — the aircraft went into a vicious spin as soon as he let out the ailerons. That was the only control he had, was ailerons, and he went out through the top hatch but he had quite a struggle against the slip stream because it was pinning him to the fuselage with the increased speed. He must have been doing well over two hundred miles an hour, two-fifty miles an hour when he was trying to get out the hatch, which we didn’t have because we went out through the bottom hatch.
JM1: And the gunners went through the rear door didn’t they?
Jm2: Indeed. In fact, I heard them both say, ‘Rear gunner leaving.’ And, ‘Mid upper leaving.’ But funnily enough the mid upper, the, the rear gunner has no memory of leaving and wasn’t completely conscious until about 5 o’clock that night and yet I clearly heard him say, ‘Rear gunner leaving.’
JM1: And what height were you when you bailed out?
Jm2: We were twenty-two thousand [unclear] and I’d say we were between eighteen and twenty thousand or something like. It didn’t take very long.
JM1: No. When you came down tell us what happened when you landed please.
Jm2: I got my rigging lines a little bit crossed and I was trying to untangle the rigging lines and did so, managed to do so, and then I blacked out through lack of oxygen, lack of oxygen. I’d been without the oxygen for quite some time in the manoeuvring inside the aeroplane and I just blacked out through lack of oxygen and I didn’t come to until, oh, about four thousand, three thousand feet or so from the ground and I hit rather hard on a bunch of rubble and the Wehrmacht was waiting for me as a reception committee and I was a bit knocked about a bit and I came too really being frog-marched into a police station in Niebruch [?] and stuffed into an underground cell there.
JM1: Were the other members of your crew there?
JM2: No, on my own. We were widely separated because of the difference in bailing out.
Jm1: Right.
Jm2: [clears throat] I don’t know where the others landed although I must have been told when we met at up Dulag Luft. I can’t remember now.
JM1: How were you treated by the Wehrmacht?
JM2: The, er, the ordinary soldiers I think, I think they were a blessing in disguise because they kept the civilians away from us who were naturally a bit unchuffed about all this business. And, er, but I was put in a cell. They took my flying boots off me and put me in this bare board cell which was underground and, er, I didn’t have anything to eat for, er, quite some while. The following day the, er, sergeant of the police elected to interrogate me, by the simple means of sitting me in front of him at his desk, un-holstering his luger, sliding the [clears throat] breech back, pushing the safety catch off and pointing the barrel at me as he laid it on his desk, which felt a bit uncomfortable because I’ve fired a luger and know how hair trigger they are. So with him speaking German and me speaking English we didn’t get very far I must admit so we gave it up as a bad job and I went back in the cell. But, er, the following night I was moved from there to a Luftwaffe aerodrome on the back of a lorry and in the darkness [laugh] a voice said, ‘Have you got a fag, mate.’ Which I didn’t. The soldiers that picked me up took my wristwatch off me and pinched my cigarettes. I had a pack of cigarettes. They took the cigarettes out and put the cigarette case back in my pocket, surprisingly, but they pinched my cigarettes. I said, ‘No, I haven’t mate, sorry.’ But it turned out to be a Canadian gunner who’d gone down presumably nearby in the same raid. I said, ‘No I haven’t mate. I’m sorry.’ Anyway after a short journey through the all the rubble in the city. [unclear] used to clear a road through cities just to get transport through and they put me in this Luftwaffe transport base in a cell in, er, this ready room and whilst I was in there — I hadn’t had anything to eat for two days by then or drink — and one of the, er, Luftwaffe members, one of the ground crew saw me eyeing up his meal, er, two slices of bread and butter with molasses in. He saw me eyeing this up and he came over and give me [clears throat] half of it and this turned me really. It was the only kindness I ever saw off a German throughout me — in fact, it made me quite emotional, as I am now. He gave half his lunch to an enemy you might say, mm.
JM1: That’s quite something isn’t it?
JM2: It was for me, mm.
JM1: Yes and from there you went to Dulag Luft?
JM2: Yes. Frankfurt am Main for interrogation, er, ten days isolation, solitary confinement, in a ten by eight foot cell, which had a little window barred up, high up, and the only communication was a lever you had inside the inside wall which, when you turned it, dropped a signal out on the outside in the corridor to let the guard know that you wanted to come out for some reason or other. That’s the only communication you had with the outside world for ten days, apart from meals that were brought to you.
JM1: And you were interrogated again at Dulag Luft?
Jm2: Yeah. [slight laugh] The — I think there was a bit of smartness there because the — while I was being interrogated, the usual rank, name and number, and trying invoke information off you which I didn’t have much of any way. I didn’t have much to tell but what there was wasn’t worth telling so I didn’t bother. But during this, imagine I’m quite scruffy and dirty and unshaven and they brought in a young woman, a stenographer of some kind, to jot down the answers, all glammed up to the eyebrows, to make me feel as uncomfortable as possible, which it certainly did. [laugh] I felt a real scruffy object in front of this glamorous female. Yeah, a bit of psychological warfare there.
JM1: I, I’ve read that sometimes the interviewers, the interrogators, knew more about the squadron than you did. Did you get that?
JM2: They did. They told me who my flight was and who my flight commander was. Another psychological trick I would imagine but I was aware enough by then. I’d had a few meals and I didn’t respond to it. There’s no point. If you respond to it they pump you harder. You were told about this. The more you give away, the more they pump you, so you keep your mouth shut.
JM1: And where did you go from Dulag Luft please?
JM2: Stalag Luft VII in Upper Silesia, Poland. Quite chilly and that. It was December by then.
JM1: This was December 1944?
JM2: Yes.
JM1: Yes and what was it like in that camp?
JM2: A bit rough and ready. Food was the real problem. Food was always the main topic t of conversation in captivity because you never got enough of it and what the Germans doled out was pretty rough. Their sauerkraut was — I wouldn’t have give it to a dog but we’d have it. We ate it in most cases. We had what was known as pea soup and we used to separate the peas, and inside each pea there used to be a little tiny beetle, and we used to split the pea open and open the people [?] and get a little row of tiny beetles and we would save them while we scoffed the peas. Believe me this is quite true.
JM1: I believe you.
JM2: It’s hardly credible from a civilian point of view but beetle soup it became known as, yeah. Hunger was always the problem.
JM1: And Red Cross parcels?
JM2: Infrequent and, er, often we had to share one parcel between four or two and not, not, not — very few of them. In fact, there’s a record of them in here that, er, of the people who kept diaries. David’s done a log of the times that we’d done but it’s hardly worth bothering with now.
JM1: David is your son-in-law?
JM2: Yes. He is indeed. He’s the instigator of all this stuff except for the models. I brought the models in.
JM1: Were you concerned that your family should know that you were still alive?
JM2: That was another thing. They were allowed to write one letter, for the Red Cross gave us one air mail letter to write to our families, which I understand my mother never got for some reason or other, and from the telegram she got when I was posted missing she heard nothing from, for six months, almost the entire captivity period, except for a couple in Scotland, who had a, a fairly powerful short wave radio and they used to listen to the prisoners recorded by the Red Cross as being prisoners of war and my name was mentioned on one of these broadcasts, and they took the trouble to find out from the Air Force where my mother lived and informed her I was alive and well at that time, but for all that period she didn’t know whether I was alive or dead.
JM1: And what about camp entertainment? How did you spend your time?
JM2: [Laugh] Oh, er, we rigged up what was known as a, a pantomime for Christmas and called it “Pantomania” because we were all blokes in it and one amusing incident came out of that. We had a pirate scene and we organised a cannon, er, that was all papier-mâché and tubes of all sorts of things and at the back an elastic flap, which would propel a, a black ball of paper out the muzzle and this was coordinated with a flash of, um, magnesium. I don’t know where the hell they got the magnesium from. I’ve no idea. But they had it anyway. We used to get people working out. They used to pinch things all over the place. However, during the pantomime we turned this, the — they allowed us to run this pantomime provided a number of German officers could watch what was going on and, er, not allow anything what they didn’t like. [slight cough] However, we managed to turn this cannon in this scene, fire the ball of — black ball towards the audience with the flash, and this made the German officers jump up and quickly snatch their lugers out and start waving them about, wondering what the heck was going on. And it was only a black ball of paper but they stopped the show and it as quite some time until we persuaded them to let us get on with it. So that was an amusing incident that came out of it [slight laugh].
JM1: Was there any talk of escape at this stage in the war?
JM2: Well, they found a tunnel under the, er, under the stage where we were. It wasn’t much of a tunnel but they found it under the stage and there was a number of organisations in the camp, which I was never part of, that leant themselves towards this idea but nobody — it was too near the end of the war to chance anything particularly dangerous. I admired one chap, one particular at Colditz. They used to — they organised a playing field away from the castle, down below the castle heights. They managed to persuade the Germans to let them have a game of football because the quadrangle was too small at Colditz and they did this a number of times until somebody had the bright idea of pole vaulting over the wire fence that they surrounded this playing field with. And he took the sections of the pole vault down his trousers, assembled it on the playing field, and pole vaulted over the wire and made a home run home from that daring escape so late in the war, yeah. Incredible that, weren’t it? That was a record by the way.
JM1: Incredible. I get the impression the morale of RAF personnel was quite high in the camp?
Jm2: Yes, yes it was pretty good, yeah, I would, I would say so. The [laugh] one amusing incident came when we first went there, at Stalag Luft VII, we were on the same level as the sentries patrolling outside the wire but the various tunnels or starting tunnels that they did, we used to have to drop the soil out through our trouser legs on the walk around the edge of the camp, the periphery we had to, used to, walk round for exercise. They used to allow us so far away from the goon boxes, about fifty yards or so away, and the number — they, they took so much earth and we dropped so much earth through the bags in our trousers, walking round, that we found ourselves above the level of the sentries outside the wire. [laugh] Would you believe? [slight laugh]
JM1: Incredible.
JM2: Incredible. We didn’t realise this at first until we found ourselves looking down on the sentries walking round the wire.
JM1: Just before we move on, you’ve, you’ve mention a couple of phrases I think need clarifying. Goon boxes?
JM2: Ah, these were stationed every, I would say hundred yards or so, round the perimeter wire of the yard [?] and they stood up on stilts, about roughly fifteen feet or so above ground level, on a, on a narrowing tower. Each contained a searchlight and a machine gun and two serving officers, Wehrmacht officers, er, Wehrmacht personnel. So that, er, if you — there was a, a trip wire about fifty yards inside the main wire which you must not [emphasis] step over on fear of being shot at, night or day, and this searchlight was used at night to patrol this area at night, and you certainly would be shot at. In fact one person was shot at while I was there and he was killed. I think he went a bit mental and went scrambling up the wire and they shot him.
JM1: Now that’s different from the box that you were describing when you flew to the target. That’s a formation? An aircraft formation?
JM2: Yes. A vic, a three vic, an aircraft of three in a vic and the box at the back that we were in for the fighter protection.
JM1: So it’s an aircraft formation?
JM2: Yes.
JM1: And the yellow tail I think. Can you just explain that for the record please?
JM2: It was known as G-H bars [?]. Why? I have no idea. I don’t know what the latter stands for but the aircraft that carried yellow stripes on the rudder had this Oboe equipment which guided them to the target more accurately than anything up to that day.
JM1: So we’re dealing with navigation and target finding electronic equipment?
JM2: Yes.
JM1: So, can we turn now to the fact that you were one of those who was released and were on the Long March?
JM2: Yes. That was — we warned about this for some while, er, when we were doing the pantomime which was just before Christmas, but the Russians were, er, getting fairly close to the camp at this stage. By close I mean about fifty miles or so and the Germans were getting a bit edgy and it came out later that Hitler was pulling all POWs back towards Berlin, presumably to use them as some kind of hostages. But however, we were turned out once and then sent back into the billets, er, in January but then on, I think it was the 19th of January, at half past three in the morning, to start the march which was, turned out to be two hundred and ninety-seven kilometres in a snow bound country in Upper Silesia in Poland when Poland was experiencing the worst winter it had ever known. It was just a wasteland wherever you looked. The only indication of road that we were on was the telegraph wires that were on poles alongside the road to indicate where the road was that we were supposed to be on, often trudging through quite deep snow, which was trodden down by — I think there was about two thousand-odd of us on the march — but two thousand, two hundred and ninety-seven kilometres in twenty-one days, a hundred and eighty miles, which was quite a feat by people who were half-starved. In fact a lot of men died on that particular march.
Jm1: And where did you end up at?
Jm2: A place called Luckenwalde about fifteen kilometres south of Berlin and, er, we, we became in the middle of a shell swap between the Germans and the Russians at one time. In fact one, one Russian shell, presumably it was Russian, landed in our compound and exploded harmlessly, as it happened, but by this time the German guards had gone away from the camp and left the camp to us. They had retreated to their own lines, or whatever, and we were running the camp ourselves at that particular time. And, er, eventually these Russians came and mowed down the wire and said, ‘You’re free now.’ And liberated us and the following day put the wire up again and contained us, which was a bit of a [unclear] at the time as we had no contract, transport and we had nowhere to go so we just had to stay in camp until eventually the Americans stopped the Russians from crossing the Elbe back into their territory until the Russians allowed us [emphasis] to cross the Elbe back into American territory. Then the Americans sent lorries and picked us up and took us back to their territory.
JM1: And how did you get home from Germany?
JM2: We were flown from, er, Leipzig. They took us by lorry to Leipzig, to a German wireless school at the time, and then they flew us to Brussels in the courses [?] and then from there flew us home in Lancasters, eight at a time, back to England.
JM1: And that was your last flight in a Lancaster was it?
JM2: It was indeed, yes [slight laugh]. Not a very comfortable one on my side because I knew there was a little — we were strung along the aircraft, nose to tail, eight of us, to try a keep the centre of gravity in the aircraft, and I got myself near the wireless ops’ window because I knew there was a little window there I could look out. I was a crafty arse. And I was looking through this, timing the crossing and more or less from anybody who had a watch and I thought we should be seeing — and I saw the Seven Sisters in the distance and I said, a pal [?] said, ‘Pass it along. We can see Seven Sisters. We’re almost there.’ With that everyone had to have a look [slight laugh] and then about five minutes later the pilot sent the wireless operator back and said, ‘Tell the lads we can see Seven Sisters.’ [laugh] Oh, dear. This isn’t the end of the tale. When we came to Cosford we realised from the engine, well, all of us realised from the engine notes that we were in finals and the silence from the engine cooked, not knowing we were near touchdown, and we bounced along the runway like a ping pong ball. Oh lordie me, I forgot what — g-doing, g-doing, g-doing. I thought, ‘When are we going to finish this lot.’ You know. I don’t know how long but it seemed forever to me and finally we were rolling along comfortably [laugh] and the wireless op said, ‘I’ve come to tell you we’ve landed lads.’ Dear, oh dear. I don’t know who the pilot was, bless him.
Jm1: [laugh] So, once you got back you had some survivor’s leave?
JM2: Yes. Well, we had to go through all the uniform delousing and stuff like this that was going on and, er, what were we doing? We got a fortnights’ leave, yeah, and sent home. [laugh] I remember coming home with the kit on my back, a kit bag full of gear, all brand new gear, and it was night and I got home, knocked on my front door and my sister, pardon the — my sister came to the door and it was completely dark. It was still black at that time. It was about 9 o’clock at night. I said, ‘Have you got anything for the Red Cross?’ And she shouted back to my mother, ‘Have you anything?’ And my mother rushed out, pushed her to one side and grabbed hold of me [laugh]. She’d heard my voice. That was enough.
JM1: Did you stay in the RAF?
JM2: I was in till the following February. I was posted to the Isle of Man because I got married whilst I was in the Air Force and it was a compassionate posting, to, to Calvary at first and then finally to Jurby on the Isle of Man.
JM1: And did, did you maintain contact with your crew members in peacetime?
JM2: No. The only one I — well, two actually I saw. I was — we went from Calvary to Newcastle. They were changing the, er, position of the squadron, turning it into a teaching squadron, up at on the other side Newcastle and whilst we were up there they said to, to complete the complement they needed a fire engine for the aerodrome up at Newcastle and it was to be collected from a place called Witchord, Witchford. ‘Does anyone know where Witchford was?’ I said, ‘I know it. It was the next aerodrome to me in Mepal when I was operating there.’ And the flight said, ‘It would be you. Clever arse again.’ He said, ‘Well you’d better collect it.’ So I got the job of collecting it and it was a six wheel Fordson, painted in drab colours, and a water tank on the back and various things. Not a red fire engine but a Fordson and I went down and collected this thing and stayed with the family of the girl in Mepal overnight and ferried it up to Newcastle. But while I was on the way I somehow remembered the address of the navigator and I said —while I was on the way I stopped in Darlington and asked directions to this address. Unfortunately I didn’t know the number. I knew the road but I didn’t know the number and I knocked on a house and asked if anybody knew the Air Force officer and they did and gave me the number. I knocked at the door and Ray came to the door [laugh]. Oh, that was a good reunion, yeah. That was the first I’d seen him since Dulag Luft in Frankfurt and we had a good natter there and I carried on up to Newcastle. The other time was when I was working for Cravens in Civvy Street and I went back to Mepal. I hired a car and I wanted to, er, see if the rear gunner still lived in Thatchford, so I went to Thatchford with this hired car and called in the local pub and asked, ‘Does anyone know Charlie Anderton. He was my rear?’ He said, ‘If you’re lucky you might catch him. He’s just left.’ And I saw the back of him disappearing on a bike over a field so that’s all I saw of Charlie Anderton, yeah. I did see him but I didn’t meet him, no.
JM1: When you look back on those times how, how do you feel about what you went through and how Bomber Command was treated politically?
JM2: I think you tend to forget the nasty times. You seem to get a mental block at them. As I say, sometimes during the dark hours it seems like yesterday and then it gets a bit hairy. But, um, you tend to block this out I think during normal life. We were only very young, as I say, and the young are adaptable and, er, it’s over seventy years ago. It’s a long while ago.
JM1: Jim, thank you so much. You’ve given a marvellous interview. Thank you for your detail and clarity and information and emotion.
JM2: Thank you for listening. It’s a very ordinary tale I feel.
JM1: Not at all.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with James Mulhall. One
Creator
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Julian Maslin
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-23
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMulhallJE160823
Format
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01:04:05 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
James was born in Gorton, attended Catholic schools, and became an apprentice plumber. In November 1942 he joined the Royal Air Force. He then trained as a mechanic at RAF St Athan before being posted to RAF Henlow to assemble Hurricanes. He then went back to RAF St Athan to re-muster as a flight engineer. His next postings where at RAF Stradishall on Stirlings, which he thought were awful aircraft, and at RAF Feltwell on Lancasters. His crew was posted to 75 Squadron, serving at RAF Mepal where there were sometimes two full crews in a single Nissen hut. The crew’s first operation was a daylight operation to the U-Boat pens at St. Nazaire. On a run to Russelsheim they were coned and blinded by searchlights but managed to escape them with little damage. James said most of the flights were just enduring the cold and getting back as safely as possible. He elaborates on service conditions on board, recollecting instances of incendiaries hitting their aircraft. After completing the thirty operations (among them nine or ten daylight ones) the crew decided to do a final four together which proved to be a fatal decision. Those who bailed out ended up at Dulag Luft for interrogation. James was then moved to Stalag Luft VII in Poland in December 1944. He describes the conditions, food and treatment in the camps. James was in the long march which ended at Luckenwalde when they escaped. Prisoners were taken to Leipzig before being flown to Brussels and then home. James left the RAF in February 1946.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Norfolk
England--Suffolk
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
France
Germany
Poland
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Oberursel
Germany--Rüsselsheim
Poland--Tychowo
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1942-10
1943
1944
1944-12
1945
1946
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
75 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bomb struck
bombing
crewing up
Dulag Luft
entertainment
escaping
fear
flight engineer
Hurricane
Lancaster
military living conditions
military service conditions
Nissen hut
Oboe
prisoner of war
RAF Feltwell
RAF Henlow
RAF Mepal
RAF St Athan
RAF Stradishall
searchlight
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
Stirling
submarine
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1039/11412/AMulhallJE180703.2.mp3
85d2a28ea5d8fdd9060e2bf78191b491
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mulhall, James
James Edward Mulhall
J E Mulhall
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with James Mulhall (b. 1924, 224223 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 75 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mulhall, JE
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: This is Tuesday the 3rd of July 2018 and I am at the home of Mr James Edward Mulhall, known as Jim. Born 8th July 1924 in Gorton, Manchester, England. Jim joined the RAF at the age of eighteen as an ACHGD mechanic. Later qualifying as a flight engineer serving on 75 New Zealand Squadron Lancasters from Mepal, Cambridgeshire. Jim, thank you for letting me interview you for the IBCC archives. So, please tell me why you joined the RAF and where you did your training.
JM: Yeah. The reason I joined the RAF was I got fed up of being bombed by the Germans. Being blown out of bed on a regular basis. So I decided to get a little bit of my own back and I joined up at Dover Street in Manchester and did my initial training at Padgate.
GT: And you joined up to, to be a pilot or gunner or what was it?
JM: I originally intended to qualify as a pilot and I joined the PNB course. Pilot/navigator/bomb aimer. But my maths weren’t good enough to qualify as a pilot so I was offered the alternative as becoming a flight engineer. And this I accepted and trained at St Athans, in South Wales.
GT: How long was your training for, Jim?
JM: About three months.
GT: And what aircraft did you train on for that?
JM: I trained on Stirlings to begin with which I didn’t like. I thought it was underpowered and overweight. And then I got re-mustered because of the losses to Lancasters which I enjoyed very much. But as I’ve mentioned previously going from a four cylinder, fourteen cylinder radial air cooled engines to twelve cylinder liquid cooled engines, the Merlins, was a bit of a leap for me considering I only had a fortnight to qualify in this direction. And I was a bit peeved because I was genning up on night on the various different systems while my mates were out boozing. So, I didn’t take kindly to this. However we got along eventually.
GT: So, from, from your training at St Athan did you move to satellite airfields before you joined a crew?
JM: Yes. Satellite. Stradishall was one. And Feltwell was the other one. And we did the various training at these two stages on Lancasters.
GT: So, how long did that take? Months? A year?
JM: Oh no. As I said before it only took a fortnight to qualify as Lancaster crew. That’s the only time we had.
GT: No. But let’s, let’s go back to before you joined your crews though, Jim because you were still doing your training by yourself or with other flight engineers were you?
JM: Oh, they were trained, all flight engineers at St Athan.
GT: Yeah.
JM: And when it came to crewing up they pushed all the previous aircrew, who had been together on Wellingtons I might add. Five of them knew each other very well through training on Wellingtons and this, but they all sat down and they shoved, I don’t know, about eighty. Oh not quite that number. Let’s get this nearer to the fact. About twenty. Twenty or thirty flight engineers in to the big cinema with them and said quite briefly, ‘Go and find yourself a crew.’ And that was a bit disconcerting because we’d got all these pudding faces looking at us wondering whether, what kind of a bloke is this that’s going to hoist himself on to us?
GT: Yeah.
JM: So, I went up to one of them, Hugh Rees and I said, ‘Do you fancy an engineer?’ He said, ‘What’s your name?’ I said, ‘James.’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘What’s your name?’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘Jim. He said, ‘I’m Hugh. This is Westie. This is Ray. So that was it. We joined up as a crew. Yeah. Most haphazard in its way.
GT: Yeah.
JM: But none the less it worked. Yeah.
GT: So, so from the time you joined to that time you joined a crew how long was that? A couple of years? A year?
JM: About a year. Yeah. About a year. I did the Padgate training at Skegness. The square bashing as they called it and we did about a fortnight in Blackpool. In November would you believe. No place Blackpool in November believe me. Its, particularly doing PT at 6 o’clock in the morning in shorts and pumps. Not very kindly to the torso at all. So, that, that was briefly the square bashing bit.
GT: So, when you trained as a flight engineer on Stirlings did they have a flight engineer position initially?
JM: Yes. Halfway down the aircraft was the flight engineer’s position. But as I said that’s why I lost, when I lost an engine. For the first, for the first six circuits and bumps we had screens. A screened navigator, a screened pilot and a screened engineer. But they left us and the first flight we did circuits and bumps I lost an engine would you believe. I could see the cylinder head’s temperatures going down. And the oil pressure disappearing so I knew the engine was u/s. I called up the pilot. I said, ‘Feather number two,’ and he said, ‘Feathering two. Why?’ I said, ‘The CHT’s going down. I’ve no oil pressure. The engines u/s.’ So, he said, ‘Right. Nobby, call up base. We want an emergency landing on three.’ He greased it and he made a beautiful landing on three and said to me afterwards, ‘I always wanted to do that.’ [laughs]
GT: What station was that on?
JM: Stradishall.
GT: And that’s where you were doing your —
JM: Circuits and bumps.
GT: The whole crew converted there.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Into four engines.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Wow.
JM: That’s in Feltwell. We got a fortnight at Feltwell to convert to Merlins and different energy systems for the undercarriage and flaps. And so for flying controls. Aye.
GT: So, had you done any operations on Stirlings before that?
JM: No.
GT: No.
JM: No. I never did any.
GT: So, the Lancaster finishing school at Feltwell was your first touch of a, of a Lancaster.
JM: Yes. We then, we were sent to Mepal to start our operational debut as you might say.
GT: On 75 New Zealand Squadron. RAF.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So, what, when you got to Mepal was, was the squadron known by any nicknames or was there —
JM: No. We learned later that we got all the mucky jobs that’s for sure. We were known as a chop squadron. But I expect that identification was made among many other squadrons for the same reason.
GT: 75 New Zealand certainly had a reputation of, of being assigned a lot of tricky and dangerous targets.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And the chop squadron was certainly well known back in to 1943 with Stirlings. So, so for you to hear that nickname, carry on and you joined the squadron. Well, for that matter, yes — when did you join the squadron? What month? Date?
JM: May. May in 1944. But we didn’t start operating until August. Incidentally, it might be worthwhile recording that we did fly in different aircraft. And we had one aircraft, I think it was the captain’s aircraft of D flight and it had a caption on the front of a scantily clad young maiden astride a bomb. And underneath it said, “She drops them at night,” [laughs] Make your own conclusions.
GT: I’ve seen some fabulous nose art and that sounds like another one to add to that list.
JM: The ground crew did the nose arts of course.
GT: Fabulous. So, your crew. You’ve, you’ve mentioned to me that your mid-upper gunner Ray Alderson he was quite old and had quite an attribute. What —
JM: He, he was thirty err he was forty two years old when he should have been at the limit — thirty five. And once we were routed over Denmark at night and he said — ‘Will you bank,’ left, ‘Bank right,’ rather, ‘Right and left. I can see something moving down on the ground.’ And we were around about eight thousand feet.
[recording paused]
JM: The mid-upper asked the pilot to bank to the right because he’d seen something down below. And bear in mind we’re at about eight thousand feet now but he says he saw some lights travelling along a runway and he’s not sure what it was. But as it happened he followed this, managed to follow this aircraft because it had its nav lights on. It was rising up beside us and he said to the rear gunner, ‘Let me have the first squirt Charlie because it’s my, my thing to see here.’ He said, ‘I’ll open up first and you open up next.’ So, this was done and we imagine that the pilot was looking for our exhaust flames. He’d be looking upwards looking for the blue exhaust flames while he was being vectored on to us. So, he didn’t see us only a hundred yards or so at the side of him. Fifty, a hundred yards or so and so they both had a good squirt at him and he fell away but we don’t know what happened to him. We could only claim it as a probable. But that was how good the mid-upper’s eyesight was.
GT: And he was never contested as to being over forty years of age.
JM: No. He always said he was thirty five. The lying swine [laughs] he was the best spiv I ever saw as well. He’d start off with a pair of dirty socks on a Monday. He’d finish up with a bike on a Saturday that he sold to a farmer for four pound ten. That’s not bad spivving is it? He never, he never ate in the canteen. He always ate, ate in the guardhouse because he was always bringing in bacon and eggs from the farms around about that he knew so well. So, he always had a fry up in the guardhouse. He never ate with us in the cookhouse. Or I can’t remember it. Oh at breakfast. Yeah. After flight breakfast. Pre-flight breakfast he had with us because he was, he had to because we were silence from the aerodrome. All outward communication ceased.
GT: Right.
JM: Before an op.
GT: So, your, your skipper, Hubert Rees. He did a dicky trip for you.
JM: He did.
GT: As it were.
JM: To Havre. No. Nazaire. I got it wrong. I said Le Havre at first. The sub, U-boat pens at Nazaire. Yeah. That’s when the bomb aimer got a bit excited. Yeah.
GT: So, was he always one up for the whole crew. Doing a dicky trip? Did he have always —
JM: He must have been, yeah. Must have been one up on his log book. Yeah. But for some reason or other because he did that he was never entered in our logbooks. So, although we did — Mepal have us down as I’d done thirty four but there’s only thirty three logged. As you found out for yourself.
GT: That’s right. So, you, you completed thirty three.
JM: And a half.
GT: Yeah. We’ll get to that. Right. So, now one of the things you’re talking about was your bomb, nicknamed Westie. And on your first op something happened when you were coming in to the run that you’ve told me. Can you tell me what Westie didn’t see it?
JM: You want me to repeat that?
GT: I do.
JM: It’s a bit dodgy.
GT: I do. Go on [laughs]
JM: It’s as I say we were down under radar for flying close to the sea until we climbed for bombing height for penetration on the pens. And being the third wave in the sky was black with previous ack-ack puffs. Even the birds were flying. They were so close together they frightened the life out of us. And Westie was equally concerned. And when he climbed up to bombing height we had a burst fairly close to the nose but the fragments whip upwards so that’s not really dangerous to the aeroplane. But looking in to the bomb pit I could see Westie crouched over his bomb pit, bombsight and I saw him leap back and shout, ‘F’ing hell, we’ll get killed doing this.’ So [laughs] and we looked at each other over our oxygen masks. The pilot and I could see we were laughing. We had a bit of light relief over the run. So, that took place. That’s really true that is. Yeah.
GT: But you finished the op ok.
JM: Oh yeah. But we could see flames going down either side of us and oh, it was a tricky business really because they were well defended these U-boat pens as you can well imagine. The eighty eight millimetre guns could catch you up to forty thousand feet.
GT: What was your normal bombing height that you would —
JM: Around about twenty two thousand. Yeah. Because we carried and eighteen thousand pound bomb load and a four thousand pound Cookie needs six thousand clearance to get out of the blast. So, we were usually between eighteen and twenty two thousand we’d bomb. On normal targets.
GT: Was your four thousand pound HC Cookie, was that your largest bomb that the squadron used?
JM: Yes. Yeah. We used to use a four thousand pound Cookie, twelve thousand pounders and four cannisters of incendiaries. That was a normal bomb load for a short trip. If we went to Stettin or somewhere like that we’d have to carry more fuel because that was a nine and a half hour trip. So we’d have to reduce the bomb load, the stores as they called it to allow for more fuel.
GT: So, as a crew did you go and check the bomb load before you flew? Or you —
JM: I did. I checked it to make sure all the pins were in the right position for fusing when we crossed the enemy coast.
GT: So, that was the flight engineer’s role. Not the bomb aimers.
JM: Well, he did it as well but it was one of my checks as well. He did it to make sure the Mickey Mouse was clean. Clued up.
GT: So, who —
JM: That was the selector box. The Mickey Mouse.
GT: Ah. So, the selector box was on your panel.
JM: No. It was on his panel in the bomb pit. I had a jettison button on my combing and the pilots. In case he didn’t make it for any reason. I could open the bomb doors and jettison the bomb.
GT: Could you see your bomb load?
JM: No.
GT: From the cockpit.
JM: He could. He had a peep hole in the bulk head because we had a hang up once and I had to get rid of the hang up. Get rid of the carrier as well as the bomb. So that was a bit of a job trying to chisel that out of the way but we got rid of it eventually.
GT: So, you moved down through the fuselage and could —
JM: Yeah. To get rid of the carrier. Yeah. It was in the forward edge of the bomb bay. I didn’t have far to go and I was on an oxygen bottle.
GT: Now, for those that are listening that don’t understand what a carrier is it is the British call them carriers the Americans call them racks.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And they are what is bolted to the air frame that the bomb is then latched to and in this case most World War One err World War Two bombs had a single lug.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Lugged. And they were single hooked.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And they were electro, electro-magnetic or electro magnetically —
JM: Fused.
GT: Armed or fused.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So —
JM: A fusing pin came forward and it was selected in the Mickey Mouse.
GT: So, can you describe then the way the bombs were fused?
JM: There’s a little wire ring piece in the front of the bomb and a needle when it’s selected on the Mickey Mouse in the bomb bay a needle comes forward and fits inside that loop on the wire on the bomb. So that when the bomb falls away that wire is pulled out by that pin. So then the bomb is fused.
GT: And the bomb is only fused once it falls from the aircraft and that wire’s pulled out.
JM: Correct.
GT: So, can the bomb be dropped without the wire being pulled through? In other words can it be dropped safe? Can the, the flight engineer or the bomb aimer drop his load?
JM: The bomb aimer can pre, can re-select to pull the needle back but there would be no guarantee that it didn’t get tangled up in the loop. So you wouldn’t know really whether they were fused or not. Sometimes we had to, if we had an abortive trip we’d have to drop the stores as they called them, the bombs, in the North Sea. And they tried to make sure they weren’t fused but there was no guarantee of this.
GT: So, the Lancaster could not land back at base with a full stores load.
JM: That’s right. We could take off at sixty eight thousand pound. That’s about thirty four tonne. But we had to get down to fifty six thousand pound to land. Otherwise we’d stress the undercarriage too greatly. It would bottom out and probably destroy the aircraft.
GT: Was there any cases where aircraft came back in with a heavy load at all?
JM: No. No. We never landed with a heavy load. No. The — when we were hit by the incendiaries I had to make a decision as to whether the undercarriage was locked down. And I came to the conclusion by listening to the reservoir tank that the same amount of fluid was going back in the reservoir tank just behind the pilot as was being taken out to lower the undercarriage. And after several occasions of this I came to the conclusion although I had no undercarriage lights, red or green and I decided that we could land at base with a reasonable chance of success. Which we did. And we did succeed.
GT: That’s without the undercarriage collapsing once you hit the ground.
JM: That’s right.
GT: That’s what you were trying to avoid.
JM: It didn’t collapse.
GT: Yeah.
JM: I made the right decision fortunately.
GT: Fabulous. Well, let’s go back to the reason why you made that decision. And you said incendiaries. So, you’re saying that the incendiaries were dropped from an aircraft above and went and hit your aircraft.
JM: It did.
GT: Can you tell me a bit about that please?
JM: The aircraft was shook about a bit and my instrument panel on the side of the aircraft, on the starboard side was knocked off its hinges and off its retainers. And the bottom plug down on the floor that carried all the communications that was hit and slid back. But fortunately I was able to get, to find the threads on that and screw it back in to complete the communication so we had intercom and instrument recordings as well. And the incendiaries were only, saved us because they were pinned in by being frozen at the height we were at. So, they didn’t trigger the incendiaries when they hit us. One, in fact hit us in the joint between the rudder and tail plane. Right in that joint there. Which was a bit dodgy really because any severe manoeuvres might have lost the tail, lost the rudder there.
GT: So, the incendiaries would have, would have exploded normally within the aircraft if it hit the aircraft or only if it had hit the ground?
JM: Yeah. They would have exploded in the aircraft if the pins hadn’t been frozen in. So, we were very lucky in that respect.
GT: And when you got back to Mepal did they come and take the flare, the incendiaries out of the aircraft gingerly or —
JM: Very very gingerly. We handed them through the door to the ground crew and told them that the pins were open, ‘Don’t drop them or they’ll go off. They’re magnesium flares.’ Yeah.
GT: Well, the armourers would have loaded them so the armourers would have taken them away I’m sure.
JM: Well, no. Only the ground crew. The armourers kept well away. They knew what might happen. They triggered off. No, no messing.
GT: I can’t believe, Jim the armourers would scarper [laughs]
JM: Well, you, [laughs] you were in charge of them weren’t you? But they stayed well away I can assure you. They knew it was far more dangerous than the ground crew did.
GT: Classic. Now, was there any time that your gunners, other that what you briefly mentioned did they have a chance to shoot at anything other than that one other time they claimed half each? Was there any other?
JM: No. The 109 we shot at was the only time the gunners opened up as I can remember. They did open up sometimes on the ground targets if we were going low over the, over France. And they could open, they could open up over convoys that they knew were enemy because of where they were located.
GT: Did they ever use the front guns?
JM: No.
GT: On the Lancaster.
JM: No. Westie never used the front guns.
GT: So the bomb aimer’s —
JM: Not to my knowledge.
GT: The bomb aimer’s role was also to mix in as an air gunner.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And he was trained as such.
JM: He was, well I assume he was anyway. He knew what he was doing. Yeah. My skipper wanted to play with them but the back ones. When I was playing with the aircraft he was playing with Ray’s gun err Alan’s guns. Enjoying himself I understand.
GT: Jim, did you ever do any flying of your own? On the squadron or in the aircraft?
JM: No. No. Never. The first flying I ever did was in a Stirling.
GT: But Hubert’s, did Hubert let you take the controls at all when you were in the crew?
JM: Oh yes. On several occasions. He would. Particularly if he’d had damage and was on an air test. We were supposed to do an air test two and a half hours and always climb to height to test the oxygen. But we never did climb to height. We could test it at low level just as well as at upper level. So he would then dump me in the seat. On his parachute I might add. I’m sat on his ‘chute and harness. If that isn’t confidence I don’t know what is. While he wandered around the aircraft trying other people’s jobs. Aye. And I’m stuck with it. Sat up front with thirty two ton of aeroplane to play with.
GT: Did you write up your hours?
JM: No [laughs] did I heck. No. I don’t. I don’t. I think it was frowned upon by CM. That was the publication that was issued to all aircrew as you’re well aware. So, no I did [pause] I must have totalled perhaps two or [pause] two or three hours at the controls I would say overall. Yeah. At half hour intervals or perhaps an hour at one time. But it got to the stage where the navigator used to say, ‘Whoever’s in the pilot’s seat will you turn on to,’ such and such a course. And I’d say, ‘Turning now,’ and watch the DR read off and say, ‘On course now. Thank you.’
GT: So, did you do any link trainer stuff?
JM: I did ninety hours link would you believe? The pilot had only done five hours. That’s when it came about. When the pilot said, ‘You’re going to earn your corn from here on in. You can fly the damned thing while I have a wander about.’ Which I did on several occasions amounting to perhaps two or three hours total in flight. Possibly about four altogether. So, I was in charge of the aircraft for that particular time on those particular days. Never on ops I might add. Only when we had an air test to do or testing new equipment. That was the only time I flew it. But I enjoyed it I must admit. It was a bit slow in input and recovery but very stable. A very stable aeroplane. Yeah.
GT: So, did you record your link hours in your logbook?
JM: No. No. I don’t know why but [pause] I’m not quite sure about that. I might have done. I might have done.
GT: So —
JM: I can’t remember now whether I did or I didn’t. I probably did.
GT: So, tell me about your logbook then.
JM: I probably did. Yeah.
GT: Tell me about your logbook then because that’s something of interest that I’ve heard from different stories that, from different folk that have said that they were destroyed. So how about your logbook?
JM: Well, as I said before that I was at Fenchurch. We landed at Cosford from Germany. Well, from Bristol actually. We flew from Leipzig to Brussels and Brussels to Cosford. To land at Cosford. And what was your original question? I’ve forgotten in my —
GT: Ok. So, let’s, let’s go back one because your, your flights. You managed to do how many ops?
JM: Thirty three and a half. We didn’t finish the thirty fourth.
GT: And what —
JM: We only got half way in.
GT: Please tell me about your thirty fourth op.
JM: That was George Howe work we were doing. We were supposed to pick up a yellow tailed, a Lancaster who had the Oboe equipment on to do this so called George Howe carpet bombing. But we didn’t manage to do this and we were told that we had to get in to the box at the back for fighter protection if we didn’t manage to pick up a yellow tailed aircraft. So we finished up in the box. And we were finally nailed by predicted flak on the run in for the bomb run. As I said before it’s fairly easy to dodge it. If the first burst doesn’t get you you’ve got between five and seven seconds according to your height to dodge it and be privileged to see where it would burst where you should have been but you’ve moved the aircraft so you’re not there any longer. And it’s quite a privilege to see it burst somewhere else. But unfortunately we didn’t outfly it and eventually it caught up with us and blew half the tail away.
GT: And the skipper couldn’t control it. You had to abandon ship.
JM: No. The navigator said, ‘Turn on to 270.’ But in turning he only had aileron control because he had no elevator or rudder control due to half the tail plane being shot away. But when you turn on ailerons the nose begins to drop off. You’re supposed to ease the stick back because one wing loses lift more than the other. And as it started to dive he said, ‘You’ll have,’ [laughs] We did a lot of parachute bailout, bailout business but Hugh just said, ‘You’ll have to get out lads.’ And so we did. I was the last out by the skipper. I had to watch the wireless op, Nesbitt, the hundredth operation man go past me and Ray. And the two gunners went out the back door. So I was the last out by the skipper. And I just reached for my, my parachute was in a rack behind his seat so I had to undo the bungees, put it on the clips, kneel on the hatch, take my helmet and oxygen mask and everything else off my head so that it didn’t strangle me when I went out. Get hold of the D ring and dive out. And that was goodbye. Cheers. Thirty four tons of junk swept away.
GT: And the aircraft was flat and level or was it sunk in a spin?
JM: No. It was in a shallow dive which made the skipper very difficult to get out because he went out the top hatch. And he told me later on at Dulag Luft all his fingernails were bloodied where he was trying to pull himself out against the slipstream which must have been about three hundred miles an hour by then because the aircraft is in a more or less vertical dive by that time. Yeah. So —
GT: And you all had good ‘chutes.
JM: Yes. Aye. All the ‘chutes opened, fortunately. I blacked out in fact. I’d been off oxygen so long that I was twisted and I got hold of the shrouds to untwist and blacked out through lack of oxygen. Anoxia. And I didn’t come to until I was a few feet above a pile of rubble in the centre of Hom with the Wehrmacht waiting for me to unzip all my clothing, pinch me watch and pinch me cigarettes. They didn’t pinch the cigarette case. They put that back in me battledress pocket but pinched my fags. And my watch. The swines. So, somebody got a good watch. My mother bought that as well for me when I started flying. Out of very meagre funds. Yeah.
GT: So when you were captured then did they, all your crew landed about the same area. Did you join up together?
JM: I understood later on at Dulag Luft we were all picked up within twenty four hours of each other. So, they knew where we were coming down. Don’t forget this is daylight and there would, there would be a Wehrmacht reception committee for everybody that came down. They’d have no chance at all of escaping. Or even do anything for themselves. They took these two. They were in a way they were they were a good thing to happen because civilians weren’t very pleased with us for obvious reasons. They used to call us terror flyers. Overlooking the fact that their flyers did the same thing to us years before. So, however that’s that was by the way. They took me to a police station and locked me in an underground cell. Took me boots off me and all. I were, I’m in bare feet. Well, just socks on. Took me boots off. They were flying boots that you could cut the top off you know and put it around you to keep warm. Yeah. They took those off me. I had to sleep in bare feet on bare boards in a prison cell in a place called Hom. So I understand. Yeah. The next morning the — I didn’t get, didn’t get anything to eat or drink either. I was pretty parched. The next morning they took me upstairs to be interviewed by the sergeant of police there. I forget what his title was but he started the proceedings by unholstering his luger, pointedly pushing the safety catch off — and I’ve fired a luger, I know what a hare trigger it is. And he placed the pistol down with the barrel pointing at me and then started to interrogate me. But between his German and my English we didn’t get very far so he gave it up as a bad job. Put the damned thing back where it belonged. But it was a bit unnerving for a lad of nineteen or so. Twenty. Yeah. To be faced with this. Yeah. I didn’t enjoy it I must admit.
GT: But he was Wehrmacht or SS?
JM: Oh, he was Wehrmacht. We only had one brief brush with the SS when they were fleeing from the — when we were on the march the Russians were only about five or six miles behind us all the way. And the SS were trying to escape them in ordinary saloon staff cars and one got stuck near us. And the two of them came out waving lugers, ‘Help get us out of the ditch.’ You know. We just walked past them. Bugger them. Let them get themselves out. They did eventually and drove on. But that’s the only brush — oh. They mounted a machine gun on one of the goon towers at Stalag, at Luckenwalde. And a Spandau machine gun on one of the goon towers and aimed it at the compound. But for some reason or other they didn’t open fire or else they’d have nailed a lot of us with that thing before we could get in to the huts or get behind anything. But they didn’t open fire. They packed up again and left. So that was a strange brush with the SS. But we saw them quite clearly. And the Spandau.
GT: So what prison camps were you taken to? Put in.
JM: The Stalag Luft 7B in Upper Silesia. Bankau, Poland. And then after the march we finished up at Luckenwalde. Thirty kilometres, kilometres south of Berlin. In fact at one stage the Russians and the Germans were swapping shells over the camp. Because we were only a couple of miles apart. One landed in the compound but it didn’t explode funnily enough. We had to roll it to the edge of [laughs] where the tripwire was. Up against the wire. We managed to get out of the, get it out of the gate.
GT: So how many of you —
JM: It was a five hundred pounder.
GT: How many of you were in the camp? How many were in the camp?
JM: Two thousand.
GT: And were you all RAF? USAF?
JM: Yes. I think there was a dotting of Americans and Naval personnel. But very few in number. Only perhaps fifty or so amongst our odd two thousand.
GT: So, most of you were RAF Bomber Command.
JM: Yes.
GT: Or Fighter Command.
JM: Or Fighter Command. Yeah. But aircrew anyway. The officers went to an Oflag so we didn’t see three of them after Dulag Luft. After interrogation camp at Dulag Luft. We didn’t see them anymore. They went to an Oflag. I don’t know where. Because they were commissioned officers.
GT: What was the conditions like?
JM: A bit rough. The food was the main topic of conversation. It’s usually sex or, sex or religion. But at prison camp it was food. All we thought about was food, food, food. We used to get something called sauerkraut which was some kind of cabbage in red vinegar. Disgusting stuff but it was edible. Just. And we had another thing called beetle soup which was supposed to be pea soup but inside every pea was a little beetle and we used to split open a pea and get the beetle out and put them down on the table. And we’d perhaps have a dozen or so little tiny beetles and then we’d eat the peas in the pea soup. Yeah. It’s true that. You couldn’t write that in fiction and get away with it but It’s true. Yeah. So, bread. We had to have a small like a Hovis loaf. Like a small Hovis and you had to divide it between eight men and you used to take turns at doing this in the hut between the eight of us because you got the last slice. And it would obviously be the smallest one so we had to take turns cutting the bread [laughs] How about that?
GT: No Red Cross parcels?
JM: Oh, we did get — what did we get? One. We got, in fact the SBO the Senior British Officer was in touch with one of the Red Cross officials. He had freedom to move about in Germany this fella. He had his own car. And he would advise the Senior British Officer, SBO that there was two wagons of Red Cross parcels in the sidings down outside the camp. But we only ever got one. The Germans used to pinch them and you couldn’t blame them. They were starving as much as were.
GT: Yeah.
JM: But we only got one Red Cross, Red Cross parcel between two of us. The only time I ever got a Red Cross parcel I must admit. It was very welcome. Klim milk and all sorts of things. Cigarettes. And dates would you believe. I got used to eating dates because they were very nutritious and they used to get the saliva going in your mouth. And I used to get used to eating dates. Ridiculous isn’t it? Yeah. I wouldn’t touch them in Civvy Street with a bargepole, with a sanitary inspector on the end.
GT: Was there any attempts at escaping from the Stalag that you were in?
JM: The [pause] we managed to get permission to have a sports field outside the camp. Down a little, on a little lower place so we could play football. We couldn’t do it inside the camp because of the trip wire near the goon boxes. You couldn’t get near that or else you’d get shot. That was about twenty yards inside the main wire. So we got this privilege. I think it was twice a week. And somebody managed to get a pole vault. Vault equipment in several different pieces and secreted it down on to this field. Unbeknown to the rest of us I might add. Only those in the know around about him that helped him to carry these different sections of the pole vault. And when he got down on the field the sentries patrolled outside the field to give us freedom to play football and so forth. And he put this thing together, took a run at the fence that surrounded the field, pole vaulted over the fence and I understand later on — to freedom. In to Switzerland. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction and get away with it, could you? But he pole vaulted over the wire. And I understand later on he got to Sweden. Yeah. Incredible isn’t it?
GT: Outstanding. So —
JM: I don’t even know what happened to the pole vault. Must have left it there.
GT: So, it was nothing like Hogan’s Heroes on television then. Yeah?
JM: Oh dear. He was, he was a real hero he was. Take my hat off to him. Yeah.
GT: Yes. Certainly.
JM: He made it.
GT: Now, one thing that before you were shot down on one of your ops you mentioned to me earlier that you might have had, you might have been shot at yourself. Your aircraft.
JM: Oh yes. We saw tracer one night. And we didn’t reply to it because we didn’t see anything to shoot at. Our gunners didn’t. We just saw the tracer coming towards us. But the following morning the ground crew showed us in the, the tail wheel has deeper slots on it on either side to stop it shimmying. And these slots were about three inches wide and about an inch deep and they showed us they’d dug out a 303 slug from this ridge. So, we were under friendly fire unbeknown to us because this was quite definitely a 303 slug out of a Browning machine gun.
GT: From above or below?
JM: Above.
GT: Better than the tail.
JM: It was firing down. Missed us completely. Must have been a rotten gunner.
GT: Day or night?
JM: Fortunately.
GT: Day or night?
JM: Oh, it was night time because we could see, saw the tracer. At night. Yeah. Very unfriendly fire. Yeah. It didn’t hit anything else fortunately. Or we didn’t see anything.
GT: So, prisoner of war and you knew that the allies were coming from one side and —
JM: And the Russians from another.
GT: So, what did the Germans —
JM: The borderline was the River Elbe.
GT: Ok. So what did the Germans do when they knew that their time was come and they — there’s much been talked of the forced march. Can you tell us a bit about that?
JM: They, well as I said before it was two hundred and ninety seven kilometres in twenty one days in the worst winter Poland had on record at that time. It really — you couldn’t see anything but snow. The only indication of the road were the telephone wires running alongside the wire. And that’s the only difference between the fields and the road. We were trudging along in snow all the time. We did the last fifty kilometres in a cattle truck. It was for six horses or forty men so you can imagine the crowding in that. The — we were bombed incidentally while in a siding. The Germans used to use a system of stacking. Wherever an engine was going if trucks were going the same they used to attach it to that engine and it would continue its journey with the various trucks it was supposed to take to different camps. And we were in a siding once when the Yanks bombed us. We knew it was the Yanks because of the size of the explosives. And it lifted our truck off the rails and we had to get [laughs] the Germans and all of us to hook it back on to the rails using a sleeper to get it back on to the rails so we could get attached to a train to pull us out of there later on. Imagine German guards and POW trying to get this cattle truck back on the rail. It was so crowded that we used to, half of us used to stand while the others stretched out a bit. You know. And take a twenty minute interval. They’d get up and we’d stretch out a bit because otherwise standing was a bit too much for us, you know on starvation diets. Yeah. They had one little trick. We had a can for urinating in. And there was a breather opening high up on the top side of the cattle truck and we used to fill this thing up between us and wait until we thought one of the guards was going past outside and hurtle this fluid out through the gap. We got one once. He started banging on the side with his butt of his rifle, you know. Cursing us. So we got one of them once. Yeah. You couldn’t write that in fiction could you and get away with it? But it’s true. Yeah.
GT: What, what was the reasoning for the Germans to do the forced march?
JM: The, Hitler was, we learned later that Hitler was going to use them as hostages to gather them around Berlin as far as he could to determine, to deter the allies from bombing close to Berlin. Because he’d be hitting his own POWs and particularly the tanks that were guarding the bunker itself in Berlin. So we learned that later. That we were going to be used as hostages. There was quite a number of us by then. We queued up with Lamsdorf on the march and there was two and a half thousand of those joined us on the march. So, when we got to Luckenwalde there we were joined by refugees would you believe. They, they were on the road for the same reason as us. They were fleeing in front of the Russians because the Russians never asked questions. If anything was moving in front they just mowed it down. In fact, when we were at Luckenwalde, this is another one you won’t believe but mothers were coming up with their daughters. We stayed in camp when the Germans left. They disappeared one night, overnight and there was no Germans guarding the camp anymore so, we took over guard ourselves. And there were women coming up to the wire with their daughters offering themselves and their daughters to live with them in their houses just to get a British uniform in the house because they knew the Russians had been told not to offend an allied uniform. So, it was their protection to get us to live with them. With an allied uniform in the house. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction could you? Some of the blokes did actually go but most of us didn’t. We, we were waiting to get out of the camp altogether in a way. In fact, there’s a, they had, the Yanks were allowing the Russians to cross the Elbe ad lib as they wanted to get back into their own country. But the Russians were stopping allied prisoners from crossing the Elbe in to the American territory until the Americans got wise to this and stopped the Russians. And then the Russians allowed the Americans to bring lorries up to the camp and ferry us by lorry back in to the American zone. Yeah. Leipzig they took us too. You see, it was a wireless school for the Germans. I was looking through the window one day in Leipzig and I saw a boot outside the window. I thought that’s an odd — there must be a one legged man walking about. A boot. Just one boot. And when I looked closely there’s a foot inside it. Would you believe that? I thought oh that’s enough for me. Do you know the Yanks had pineapple chunks and cream. Ordinary cream. On the tables at their camp. Right close to the front line. Pineapple chunks and cream on the tables in their mess. In their cook house. Aye. I couldn’t believe my eyes. We couldn’t touch it because our stomachs were so tender that we were told not to touch it otherwise we’d be violently sick. So it was very tempting but we had to leave it alone [laughs]
GT: So are you pretty positive that the Russians moving from one side and the Americans from the other pretty much prevented all you POWs ending up being —
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Yeah.
JM: In fact the Russians made a great show of mowing the wire down, the outside wire of the camp with a tank. And the following day they put it up again. Put the wire up. We were just pretty much prisoners of the Russians as we’d been of the Germans because they wouldn’t allow us out of the camp. They started, they said it was because there were a lot of Germans loose in amongst us and they wanted to ferret them out. And they started taking all our particulars you know. Writing them down like the Germans had done before at Dulag Luft. But we gave them all sorts of silly answers. I think some of us were circus performers. Somebody rode unicycles [laughs] Things like that. All daft things that they were writing down.
GT: So, how many of the RAF Bomber Command chaps would you think were dropped by the wayside and did not survive the forced march? And therefore, what happened to their bodies?
JM: I couldn’t even say. I couldn’t know that really. We did see several bodies by the side of the road but you couldn’t tell with the snow covering them who they were. We could see the spread-eagled shapes but, and the bunched-up shapes but we didn’t know who they were or what they were. So quite a lot of them didn’t survive.
GT: And the Germans were given orders to shoot?
JM: To shoot any prisoners that dropped by the wayside but we were to learn later on that they just fired in the air. As I said it’s an easy death. You just go to sleep with hypothermia.
GT: What kept you going, Jim?
JM: I really don’t know but I was young. I was only twenty and some of these prisoners had been since Dunkirk. They were very weak and on severe dietery all those years. They just couldn’t survive. You know. They just dropped out ad lib. In fact, some of the blokes that were fitter even than I was had a handcart and they were, they were picking up blokes that had fallen. And they had about six or seven in this handcart. And they knew that the sentries had only fired in the air because they saw them do it. And they were put in this handcart with survivors. How they did that I don’t know. It took me all my time to stay on my feet. Yeah. I had, I had my escape boots had a wrap around of nylon and you could, you had a little pen knife in a slot and you could cut this off leaving you just with the shoes. And I used to use this wrap on the front and the back of my battledress to try and keep me warm. I had a greatcoat on and all as well which the Red Cross issued me at Dulag Luft. In fact, there’s a photograph of me somewhere with my original documents with this greatcoat on. I think Pat’s got it now. I think she’s filched it I think [laughs] I haven’t seen it for years so she must have pinched it.
GT: So once you got to pretty much the end of that, of your march you were put into another POW camp and it was from there that the allies rescued you or took you back to what was it? Juvencourt?
JM: The lorries took us to a place called Leipzig. This wireless school as I’ve just mentioned. And from there they flew us in Dakotas to Brussels. And then from Brussels in Lancasters, eight at a time back to Cosford in England to be based at Fenchurch. That’s how we arrived back in England.
GT: So, was there much time between or was that pretty immediate?
JM: I think there was a couple of days. We spent a couple of days in Brussels. We got deloused by the Americans because we were in filthy uniforms and that you know. And they issued us with new uniforms at Brussels and we were able to go into Brussels. Gave us some money and have a haircut. They didn’t half rook us and all, the barbers. They knew we were coming and they knew we had money. Money you know. They rooked us. We had a ride on a tram while we were there for free. They didn’t, we had a ride around Brussels on trams. I think there was three of us. Three or four of us. So that was, that was a bit of an adventure in Brussels because everything was open. You know. Everything were pre-war as it were then.
GT: So what were they feeding you then? Because you’d pretty much been starved. So how were they feeding you? Gradually, with good food.
JM: Yeah. The —
GT: Was it up to you or did they supply it?
JM: We had what was known as a progressive diet. It came in a box. And it usually had a pork pie and some bread and butter. And a cake of some kind. As I vaguely remember. And we were allowed to eat this, I think twice a day until our stomachs got used to expanding enough to take better food. And then we got on to corned beef hash and things like that. You know. That our stomachs could manage. That’s why.
GT: So, was that sent over to Belgium from England?
JM: Yes. Yeah.
GT: Oh. I see.
JM: The, when we were on at Cosford just normal cookhouse food after that. Yeah. I remember sausages in mash. Oh, Shangri la [ laughs] I personally enjoyed. Yeah.
GT: When you left the camps and even after the march did many of your chaps have a chance to grab souvenirs like medals?
JM: Well, funnily enough we, I managed to bag a little small Beretta. The German officers used to wear them in a little leather pouch in their dress uniform. Quite a small Italian six shot Beretta. And I can’t remember where I got this from but I got it at Leipzig. From somewhere or other. I got one of the ober feldwebels caps at the same time which I brought home. And when we went to get deloused some swine pinched it. Funnily enough Jack Bagshaw at work, when I was at work at Avro’s he was a motor torpedo mechanic. He had six Packards between decks roaring away in his ear. He was deaf in one lughole. He used to get away with that. That’s another story. And he came, I was telling him this story and he came to work one day and handed me an oily rag and there was this little Beretta. Exactly the same model. He said, ‘You can keep it if you want.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘I’m not carrying a firearm in the house. You’re responsible. You get it back.’ You know. So I gave it back to Jack Bagshaw. Yeah. But it was exactly the same little six shot Beretta. Italian make. Yeah. It was a lovely little thing. Yeah.
GT: The reason I ask you that, Jim is because what one of the chaps on 75 Squadron, Randall Springer — he showed me several years ago a handful of medals that one of the prisoners of war had thrust into his hand as they pulled him on to the Lancasters. And one of them was an Iron Cross. So, that particular chap, POW managed to grab a bunch of medals from someone and they ended up in New Zealand. And I’ve heard of others talk of on the ship that arrived into Wellington or Auckland harbours taking all of the airmen back. A lot of them had firearms or daggers or bayonets and they, they got cold feet and threw them overboard before they, before they landed. So that’s the reason I asked you that question.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Brilliant. So, once you were back in England you arrived in Cosford you said?
JM: Yes.
GT: Yes. And they repatriated you pretty much so that —
JM: To Fenchurch. Fairly close by. In fact, I rang up directory. My Uncle Tom was a chief electrician of, was head of the Electricity Board in Leeds and I got directory to give me his phone number and I phoned him up. He said, ‘Where are you, Jim?’ I said, ‘I’m on Fenchurch station.’ He said, ‘Well, there’s a clock there. You stand under that clock until I come for you.’ And he took me back to his home and I slept there for, I had a sleeping out pass obviously carrying [unclear] and I slept there a couple of nights while we got acquainted. He took [laughs] he took me to his club that night among a few of his cronies. One of their private clubs, you know. In the city. And they plying me with ale and loosening my tongue you know and about halfway through this Tom said to me, ‘I want to speak to you Jim for a minute. I want to tell you a story. And it’s about a sparrow that got evacuated from London in to the countryside. And he was lost. He didn’t know where to eat or anything,’ he said, ‘And a bull came into the field and asked him what the problem was. So the sparrow told him his tale of woe and this bull said, ‘Oh, I’m fed on the best of stuff. I’ll drop you patch here. You get stuck in to that,’ he said, ‘I’m fed on the finest food there is.’ So, this was agreed. And day by day the sparrow used to climb up the tree singing his heart out ‘til he got right to the top. And he’s singing away his heart out on this rich diet. And a little boy with a new airgun came in and [pop noise] and down came the sparrow.’ He said, ‘There’s a moral to this story, Jim. When you get to the top on bullshit don’t make a song and dance about it.’ To my eternal grief and shame it was two days before I realised who the sparrow was. Me. [laughs] That was my uncle Tom. Yeah. He was, he was instrumental when I had the fire engine I told about. Seeing Walter. He, he, I pulled up one day outside his house in this fire engine and he said, ‘Good God. You can’t leave that.’ It was a [Banjo?] Avenue, you know. ‘You can’t leave that. Nobody can get past.’ ‘Hang on,’ he said, ‘I think I know where that’ll go.’ He came back about ten minutes later. ‘Follow me,’ he said, ‘But be prepared to back up when I tell you to.’ So I backed up. He stopped me about between the vicarage and the church. There was just room for this fire engine to get off the road you know and out of the way of other cars. That’s by the way that but that’s my Uncle Tom. He was instrumental in electrifying many of the Indian railways.
GT: Right. Well —
JM: Years before.
GT: So, from Cosford and the satellite that you were repatriated to did you end up back at Mepal?
JM: Only once. For the fire engine. That’s all. Well, funnily enough —
GT: No. But you were telling me about your logbooks. So, so what happened about your logbooks?
JM: Well, when I was at Fenchurch as I said a fifteen hundred weight opened the double doors at the back end of the cookhouse, backed in and tipped up. It must have been a thousand or more logbooks on to the floor and said, ‘Yours is in that lot. Try and find it.’
GT: So, were these just 75 Squadron logbooks or from all stations?
JM: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know that. I went to the number that must have been from a number of stations. There wouldn’t have been all from Mepal. No. I had attempted to look through and I thought oh well, I wasn’t interested in a logbook. I’d survived. That’s all I was interested in.
GT: And therefore you do not have your logbook today.
JM: No. I don’t know where it is or even if it exists.
GT: It’s a lot of history. A lot of history to go. Now, the Aircrew Europe Star. We know that the Aircrew Europe Star was stopped at D-Day.
JM: A point. Yeah.
GT: At a point. And from there on all of those that flew ops in Bomber Command were only eligible for the France Germany Star.
JM: Yeah.
GT: What’s your thoughts as a person who went on ops across that time?
JM: Well, I singled it out as if somebody did one op during the qualifying period they would get the Aircrew Star. I did thirty four. Or thirty three and a half. A fortnight outside the qualifying period and I didn’t get it. And I was a bit peeved about that I must admit. Yeah. But it didn’t come through so that was it. They wrote to me and said that I was a fortnight outside. I’ve got the letter somewhere. Outside the qualifying period so therefore I didn’t qualify for the Aircrew Star.
GT: And to continue on from that there was no actual Bomber Command campaign medal although the clasp was introduced as a, an add on.
JM: Yeah.
GT: An attempted fix.
JM: Yeah. I’ve got that. It’s shown up on that photograph there.
GT: Brilliant. But what’s your thoughts then on the fact — pretty much I’m guessing it’s the same as what the France Germany versus the Aircrew Europe isn’t it? Bomber Command chaps like yourself never was showing the grace and the sacrifice you guys made by having your own campaign medal. You’ve had a lot of time to think of this, Jim. What’s your thoughts on that?
JM: I just dismissed it as the way the cookie crumbles. I wasn’t there when they wanted me to be so that’s the end of it. As I say I was a bit peeved I must admit. For obvious reason.
GT: Well, the Bomber Command medal or campaign medal it was decided that there would not be one and that was decided some years after the war.
JM: Yeah.
GT: So the fact that you guys did not get a campaign medal is, was they made a decision then and we’re stuck with. And there are still some folk still trying to make sure that you do get more recognition than just a clasp.
JM: Nice to know.
GT: Yeah. And the last piece therefore of medals is that you are eligible for the Legion of Honour from the French.
JM: I didn’t know that.
GT: And therefore I’m going to make enquiries to ensure that the application is put forward of your, of your service to the French. I have done six gentlemen in New Zealand in the last three or four years. So therefore, noting that at least some of your operations were against Le Havre and other French targets you are eligible. So, we will do something about that, Jim. Now, Jim when you finished obviously with recuperating did you stay in the RAF or did you, or were you demobbed come VJ day?
JM: As I said before I went in to MT. Motor Transport. Because I didn’t want to fly a plate washing machine. So, carrying tapes and a crown made me eligible to drive the buses. The thirty two seater Fordsons. And the Thornycroft crane. That was nine and a half ton. I took my wife over to the island when I was in Jurby because we were only married in the July and this was in September. So she had a few months there before I was demobbed the following year in January. I came back to Liverpool to get demobbed and get issued my civvy togs you know. The, there was quite a few things happened there as well. What was the first one? I know I was, I was driving an arctic with furniture. Taking to — from Jurby to Athol, further up the road. And I thought, oh no the wife’s shopping in Ramsey today. I know she said she was going shopping. I’ll go and do a bit of showing off in Ramsey with this Arctic, you know. So I drove off my proper route and went into Ramsey and I got it jack-knifed on one of the corners. A policeman came over and said, ‘What are you trying to do, son?’ I said, ‘Well, I was only married in July and I know the wife’s shopping here. I came, I came down to do a bit of showing off actually and I’ve got jack-knifed here.’ So, he sat back on his heels laughing. He said, ‘In thirty odd years I’ve never heard an excuse like that.’ He said, ‘We’ll get you out of here. I know who these drivers are.’ So they came out and had a good laugh at my expense, shifted their cars and I got this un-jack-knifed and drove out of Ramsey. It wasn’t until about a month later my wife said she’d witnessed all this from one of the shop doorways and kept out of the way [laughs] How about that? Oh dear. I never lived that down.
GT: Well, tell me, Jim about your lovely wife then. Where did you meet? And you married in the July of 194 –
JM: ’45.
GT: ’45.
JM: ‘45
GT: Please tell me about your dear wife.
JM: We — I was a, I was, I did a lot of roller skating and I had one partner called Jean. She was, I was only, what was I? Thirteen. I think she was twelve. And her mother told me off once because we were, as a gang we were messing about in air raid shelters you know. Lads and girl. And her mother told me off one day. Singled me out and said, ‘You’ve been messing about with my daughter in an air raid shelter. Now, I’m telling you now you’ve got to stop it.’ I said, ‘Alright. Ok. Can I take her skating on Saturday night?’ She said, ‘You’ve got guts lad. I’ll tell you that.’ She said, ‘You’ll have to ask her dad when he comes home.’ So, I said, ‘When’ll he be home?’ She said, ‘About 5 o’clock.’ So, I went and asked him. Got on my bike. I rode back up to [unclear] Drive from Levenshulme and I said, ‘Can I take your daughter?’ He said, ‘Well, she’s got to be home for 10 o’clock at night.’ I said, well he’d got piles very badly, he couldn’t move. He was locked in an armchair. He said, ‘You’d better have her home by 10 o’clock.’ I said, ‘Well, skating doesn’t end, finish ‘til ten and it’ll take us about half an hour to walk home from there. Can we make it half past?’ ‘Not a second later,’ he said, ‘Not a second later.’ And by the skin of our teeth we made it, you know. But after that Mrs Mac used to send him to bed to give us a bit of leeway coming home. So he never knew what time we got home after that. They always gave me a cup of cocoa before I rode home on my bike. I used to take my bike to the rink and walk Jean home and then get on my bike and ride home from their house in Burnage back to Levenshulme. Yeah. She was a brilliant partner too. We had some fun. Len Lee and the, Jack Woodford used to run a skate room at Levenshulme Skating Rink. And they used to, they had two elderly people taught Jean and I how to dance on skates and we taught Len and Jack how to dance on skates. So they picked up partners and liked to copy me and Jean and they learned to dance on skates. And one time we were doing a tango. Well, the skate was rectangular. The rink. And we used to do a figure of eight so that we could have more room on the wood then we would normally just following the rectangle you see. And we used to time it so that we’d pass one another, Len Lee and me in the centre of this eight. And one, the girls used to thump us. We were getting close. We couldn’t see each other. We were going by the standards on the side of the rink. The bar rails, you know. Where we were for the centre of the rink. We couldn’t see each other. And the girls used to thump us. ‘You’re too close. You’re too — ’ We couldn’t see each other. And one night our shirts actually touched. They were billowing out with the speed you know, so the bodies didn’t touch but our shirts actually touched. And I can hear him now, Len Lee ‘Jesus Jim,’ right across the rink, ‘How close is that?’ You know. Because of a closing speed of about twenty miles an hour. Dear. Dear. How we got away with that I’ll never know but that’s by the way.
GT: And you had children.
JM: Oh yes. Lynn is actually shown with my wife in that small picture there. She was first born. She contracted cancer when she was thirty eight. They gave her six weeks to live and she lasted ‘til she was forty two and then she died. So that was it. But she, she said, ‘When I’m going dad I’m going kicking and screaming,’ [laughs] and I bet she did as well. She once went hiking around the world with her mate Brenda and she’s only five foot two. She was only tiny. And Brenda was only small. And they asked me to drop her outside Altrincham so they could pick up a wagon to get a boat to Holland. And when I looked in my mirror and saw these two tiny figures the kit bags were taller than they were. And the next we heard was five days later with a postcard and a cross on it outside the Blue Mosque. She said later on, ‘The first thing we saw when we got to Baghdad was a van going past — Manchester University Student’s Union.’ Going past them down the street. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction could you and get away with it? She got very poorly Brenda. Eating fruit that she hadn’t washed and she was, Lynn was trying to bring her around on the pavement propped against the wall. A bloke stopped and said, ‘What’s the matter?’ So she told him. He said, ‘I’m a medical student. I think I can get her out of this.’ And he did. He laid her down in the prone position and started massaging her and got her, made her sick and got her right. So she was able to stand up again and walk. How about that for coincidence? A medical student.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Coming across the pair of them in extremis like that. Yeah. That’s another thing you couldn’t write in fiction but it’s true.
GT: So when you were MT driving you were given some jobs and one of them was Witchford.
JM: Yeah. Oh with the fire engine. Oh, I’ve told you this one already. Yeah.
GT: But Witchford is 115 Squadron’s airfield. Right next to Mepal which was 75 Squadron’s airfield. So —
JM: Yeah. Their drem systems were five, our drem systems were five miles apart. Yeah. The — I had some food. I collected a fire engine. Then I went for some grub to the canteen and one of the women serving me started crying. One of the WAAFs serving on the other side of the cookhouse bar. And she started crying. She said, ‘I know you. You’re supposed to be dead.’ I said, ‘How do you —’ She said, ‘You were from, you were from Rees’s crew. We were told you were dead.’ I said, ‘Well, I can assure I’m very much alive and I’m hungry.’ But she, how about that? She had tears coming down her face and she’s serving me breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a unique occasion. Yeah.
GT: So, why did they think you were dead?
JM: Say again.
GT: So, why did they think you were dead then?
JM: Well, because of this blown up business with the two aircraft that collided over the target. They thought our aircraft was one of them and that’s how the tale got back to squadron. Through the rear gunner surviving out of one of them. And that’s when I came with Walter and his ghost story.
GT: Oh, that was on an operation before you were shot down.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Ah. Now, what about —
JM: Oh no. It was on the same operation.
GT: That was that operation.
JM: Yeah. Three.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Three aircraft were lost that day.
GT: Oh right.
JM: From our squadron.
GT: So —
JM: Out of eighteen.
GT: So, now who —
JM: High attrition rate.
GT: Who was Walter?
JM: Walter was the father of the girl I was friendly with in the village.
GT: And what happened when you walked up to him?
JM: I’ll repeat this. I’ll repeat this for what it’s worth. There was some slightly rising ground on a hot summer afternoon when even the silence is noisy. You know what I mean. I parked this tender. The camouflaged tender in grey and green under the tree and walked up the slight rise towards Walter. And about twenty yards off I shouted, ‘Hi Walter,’ and Walter turned, looked at me, ‘No. No. No. Jim. No.’ And his son tugged at his leg, he said, It’s alright, dad. He’s real.’ ‘Jesus, don’t ever do that again,’ he said. He came feeling me to make sure I was real. You know. That was Walter. Aye. I was a ghost for three seconds. How about that? Yeah.
GT: He thought you were shot down as well.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And lost.
JM: As I say I wasn’t aware of this at the time but Walter was. He was aware of the tale and I wasn’t.
GT: And that, you walked up after you’d been repatriated.
JM: Yeah.
GT: From your POW time.
JM: Yeah.
GT: So, being taken POW were your family notified immediately or did it take some time?
JM: No. They gave us — that was a curious thing. They gave us a letter to write to be forwarded through the Red Cross to say that I was safe and well and a prisoner of war. And the Red Cross was supposed to deliver this to my mother. Which she didn’t get until six months later. But curiously enough a couple up in Scotland had a very powerful shortwave receiver and they used to listen to the Red Cross broadcast of prisoners of war and other items of interest to families. And they found out that I was a prisoner of war through this receiver and contacted the Air Ministry with this information. And the Air Ministry gave them my mother’s address. And six months after I’d been shot down this couple contacted her and told her that I was alive and well. How about that? Through the shortwave receiver they had in operation up in Scotland. In Lossiemouth in Scotland. Yeah. So my mother didn’t know whether I was alive or dead for over six months. That was a bit hard on her. Yeah.
GT: And how long were you a POW for?
JM: From November in ’44 ‘til April, ‘til May in ’45.
GT: Which was practically the whole six months. Yeah. The starvation thing that you endured did that have any lasting effect on you in later life?
JM: Only making my stomach small so that it was difficult to get back to eating solid food later on in Leipzig where the Yanks took us. They were aware. We weren’t the first prisoners of war obviously to stay there and they were aware of what was needed to get our stomachs to expand and gave us these feed boxes twice a day as I remember. That contained the necessary things that would make our stomachs bigger and bigger ‘til we could take solid food.
GT: So, after the disbanding from the RAF, the demobbing, what did you do as a career for the rest of your days? Your [unclear] days.
JM: Well, I was able to get what was called a green card from the AEU because of my service in the RAF. What I did then. And that allowed me to get an engineering job anywhere with the blessing of the AEU with this green card. And the first, first job I had was at Crossley’s in Crossley Road in Levenshulme building buses. I only stopped there for about a month and then I went up to Mirrlees where they made diesel engines and I got into their experimental department and worked there for about eleven years. And after that I was going by bicycle up from here in Ashford Road up to Mirrlees on a bike which wasn’t bad going but was pretty bad coming back up the hill when I was tired. So I got a job at Craven’s making machine tools and I became a machine tool fitter. I was eleven years at Craven’s. I were five years at Mirrlees and eleven years at Craven’s. So I became a machine tool fitter and began travelling up and down the country after a while putting machinery in for Craven’s. I put a fourteen foot borer once at Peter Brotherhood’s at Peterborough. That’s like a big turntable. It was in eight pieces that. Fourteen feet across. Two uprights and a cross slide. And I put that together myself and trimmed it off and that would probably last about a hundred and fifty, two hundred years that because of the way it was made. Yeah. Other things are [unclear] in, down in in Kent. Different places. And Falkirk. The funny thing happened in Falkirk. I was, I was putting a machine in there and I felt very uncomfortable and I thought, I went to the boss of where I was working, I said, ‘I’ve got to go home. I’m sorry. I feel very uncomfortable. There’s something happening at home and I don’t know what it is.’ And I got home later that day and my wife was teetering in the front room trying to hang a piece of wallpaper up and she was just about over balancing on the steps when I grabbed hold of her. I went in silently because I looked through the window first. Saw her as she was teetering and we both finished up on the side of the wall and in a heap on the floor. And she brought me home from Falkirk and I don’t know how or why. If that isn’t mental telepathy I don’t know what is. But she did that and I wasn’t aware of it. That’s true that is. Yeah. We all finished up on a heap on the floor and she had the two bits of wallpaper on the floor [laughs] ‘You made me jump,’ she said. I said, ‘You’d have jumped if you’d have fell over. You were overbalancing then.’ And she was as well. I cut the ropes on the ladder so that she wouldn’t use it again. Chucked it outside. So I went back up to Falkirk and finished my job.
GT: You had many lovely years with your wife.
JM: Sixty six years we were married. Yeah. As I said before I only, I only signed up for a fortnight. But anyway it was very enjoyable. She was a wonderful wife. She really was. I remember my mother saying, ‘She’s not the girl for you, Jim.’ But she was wrong. She was. She, I learned later I was in the rink, she first spotted me at Birchfield Skating Rink. And she said to a mutual friend of hers, she saw me come in the rink and she said to this friend, this friend told me years later as soon as she saw me walk in the rink she said, ‘I’m having him,’ [laughs] to this friend. And I didn’t even know the woman then, you know.
GT: How old was she?
JM: She’d be twenty. Twenty two. Yeah. Same age as me. Well, she’s the older one. She’s a month older than me. Her birthday’s in May and mine’s in July but she said to this mutual friend who told me years later, ‘I’m having him.’ And she did and all. I don’t know how but she did. Yeah. Yeah. She, as I say she was a wonderful wife. Wonderful mother. A wonderful person.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
GT: [unclear] Jim.
JM: I get a bit emotional.
GT: Well, it’s understandable and I’m very sad to hear of her loss from dementia. That’s understandable. Jim, the engineering stuff that you learned from the RAF. Did that help you once you’d become a civilian again?
JM: Oh yes. Yeah. What I learned engineering on aircraft before I volunteered that served me in very good stead indeed because they had a little training school there for mechanics and they taught you the rudiments of engineering. How to file things, you know. How to fettle things. How to scrape things using a scraper. And that, and that lasted, I think about a month and it stood me in good stead in Civvy Street. Particularly as, oh that was the thing we used, they used to send Hurricanes over from Canada that had been made in Canada and the fuselage was in a big long box with the wings lay alongside it and the tail unit already in place. And we used to get these out, assemble them together and fly them off. And we used to work dinner times because they used to get a lot of fluff in the radiator and that used to seize up and get the engines too warm. So one day we were, we used to work dinner times if we could because we could get a couple of hours off later on you know and eat what we liked. And one day we were changing a radiator on a Hurricane and an Oxford landed. And my mate who was senior to me, he said, ‘Go and wave that in.’ So I went over on to the field and waved this Oxford in and shut it down. And I walked back again and got underneath, got on with this thing, and then we saw three figures walking along in American uniform and the middle one was in civilian dark clothes. And the other American was in American uniform. And he said, ‘Who’s that?’ ‘It’s Bob Hope.’ We’d heard rumours about this. It was Bob Hope. And he came over to us and he bent down underneath and he said, ‘What are you doing, lads?’ So, we said, ‘Well, we’re changing this radiator.’ And he shook hands, I said, dirty hands. And he shook hands with us. Dirty oily hands you know. And he gave us chewing gum. They used to be in little squares in the packet. You didn’t have it in layers. It was in little peppermint coated squares you know. All these tiny squares and a big packet of these. I gave it to the WAAFs later on because I didn’t eat chewing gum. But he did a show I understand in the hangar. He came to bury his grandfather who lived in Hitchin because he, he was British born, Bob Hope. And his grandfather died and that’s why he was up here. He was over with Frances Langford and one or two other. Bing Crosby. Entertaining the troops. In the USO in London, you know. That’s why they were over here.
GT: What was that? 1943 or something?
JM: Yeah. It was forty — no. It would be ’45 wouldn’t it? Oh no. Forty. No. You’re right. ’43. Yeah. And he gave quite a show in the hangar to everybody and signed a lot of autographs you know. On toilet paper would you believe. And I got one of them. I brought it home. Yeah. Signing autographs on toilet paper. You had to double it over to make sure. He was, he was a great bloke. Yeah. He came to bury his grandfather who died in Hitchin. That was about five miles away from Henlow where we were at the time. It was a peacetime aerodrome. Brick buildings, barrack room jobs. You know. Not Nissen huts.
GT: So, when did you retire? What age were you when you retired? Or year I suppose.
JM: I retired from Avro’s. I went to work at AV Roe’s because Cincinnati started buying out machines tool people and closing them down so that they could take the orders. Cincinnati in America were closing, closed Richard’s down. And then we knew they were going to close Craven’s down so one of my mates went up to Woodford. And he phoned me about a week later, he said, ‘Get your arse up here a bit quick. It’s money for old rope.’ So, I went up and because of my earlier training in the RAF I got in to experimental at Woodford. So I got in amongst the flying aircraft there and that was quite an enjoyable time to stay there. And I retired from Woodford when I was sixty five. Yeah.
GT: So you saw the introduction of the Vulcan.
JM: Oh yes. Aye. I’ve worked on the Vulcan. Would you believe a Vulcan is held, the engines in a Vulcan are held by one bolt? It’s about three and a half inches thick and it’s about a foot long and you have to feed it through a, through the engine and through a hangar in the roof of the engine bay. And apart from tags at the front and back to stop it from swivelling that’s the only thing that holds the engine in a Vulcan. Would you believe? One great big bolt. And they’re thirty three thousand horsepower each those engines. Olympus engines. Thirty three thousand horsepower each.
GT: Same as the Concorde.
JM: And one bolt holds them in. That’s unbelievable isn’t it?
GT: So what makes the howl?
JM: What makes —?
GT: The Vulcan howl.
JM: Oh. The — we had diffusers on the drum and they started by air pressure. We have what’s known as a Palouste with a little rover engine at the back and it builds up air pressure. You put this into the aeroplane and it drives the turbines around until they’re fast enough for the fuel to be ignited and then they open up themselves so that they shut it down, did that one by one. AV Roe’s do that. They’d run the engines. Not us. The [pause] I’ve nothing to add to that I don’t think. But these diffusers made the howl go upwards. They were L shaped. Big metal things. And they put out. They could hear us in Bramhall but we couldn’t hear an awful lot here because the sound went up. But they could hear us in Bramhall you know. Yeah.
GT: That must have been exciting times with the V force bomber aircraft coming on line and all the experimental little small delta wing aircraft.
JM: Yeah. I did the right thing going to Woodford although I went for a few months until I could get back in to the machine tool industry but I was there thirty years in all. And I’ve got a watch to commemorate it. It’s upstairs.
GT: Yeah.
JM: What did I want to say?
GT: What about the Saunders Roe? Did you have anything to do with — which had one of the first ejection seats from Martin-Baker?
JM: No. No. I had nothing to do with that at all.
GT: That was a Navy one.
JM: No. Funnily enough, Poggy the engineer on the Vulcan, he, they had to — there was a quite a reoccurring fault with the buzz bars at the back of the Vulcan and sometimes they used to go off line which left them with an aircraft with no power. They had a RAT an air rotating power unit that they used to drop down out of the wing into the air flow to give them enough time to check instruments and so forth. But he had to bale out as well. Bob Pogson. Anyway, we were able to compare Caterpillars together, you know. We both had the same card.
GT: [unclear]
JM: Bob Pogson. He baled out of a Vulcan. There was one did and all. They lost another Vulcan with Edwards and he qualified for a Caterpillar. We had three of us in Vulcan qualifying. Showing cards to one another you know and everybody looking and wondering what the hell we were doing. Yeah. The — one of the blokes at that I worked with on the benches, he said, I showed him some photographs some time and he said, ‘You’re my hero.’ I said, ‘Don’t talk shit. Heroes didn’t come back.’ And apparently he showed them around. I got quite a reputation at Woodford because he told other people like the twins and so forth like that. And they did very well really. You must be running out of time on that.
GT: One thing that always interested me was the V force bombers always had four — well the pilot and co-pilot always had the ejection seats and the men in the back were facing rearwards without ejection seats.
JM: That’s right.
GT: And I believe it became an issue that even went to your parliament. Do you recall anything that along that was talked of at the time and they —
JM: Well, Poggy told me that they had to drop the aircrew entrance door. That the RAT enabled them to do that because that was the supplying a bit of power. Random Air Turbine. And they dropped that and they dropped the ladder and they climbed down a ladder, turned. Oh, they’d got to turn the seats around obviously to face the gap and they take it in turn, the middle one first and then the other two in progress. Climb down the ladder, turn and face the undercarriage which they dropped down, get a hold of the leg and slide down the leg and roll off the nose wheel and pull the D ring. That’s how they baled out of the Vulcan. The pilots ejected after they had gone. The pilots made sure that they, the three were out before they ejected. So I understand.
GT: As long as you had height.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And good weather. There were quite a few Vulcans that went in.
JM: Yeah.
GT: That took everyone.
JM: That’s the only insurance you’ve got with an aeroplane is height.
GT: Yeah.
JM: You’ve got time to do things with height. You don’t have any height — oh dear. No insurance. Oh dear.
GT: And at that time with still Bomber Command.
JM: Yeah. It was. Yeah.
GT: The irony of you being in Bomber Command for —
JM: Yeah. We were towing an aircraft, a Shackleton across the short runway when a Vulcan was taking off and we had to wait on the short runway and the long runway was going past us like that and we were towing this Shackleton on to the compass point to swing the compass on the other side the aerodrome. And the Vulcan took off and the shockwave with it bent us over. And it’s about fifty yards in front of us. The runway. And yet the shockwave that followed it bent us all over and we stood by the side of the tow truck. How about that. The enormous force that that aircraft generated when it took off. Unbelievable. You wouldn’t believe that but we didn’t grab hold of anything but we were bent over. It was enough to bend us over with the shockwave. Yeah.
GT: Did you have anything more to do with Lancasters then once you’d finished? I mean were they —
JM: The — when we were at Coningsby. Coningsby. The photograph up there shows us at Coningsby. They invited us up there for the seventy fifth. See there. And put us up at the Petwood Hotel where the Dambusters stayed. There’s all photographs of that as well. And while we were there the — there was a hundred and fifty veterans there with their families in the hangar and the hangar was open wide. And eleven of us were up for gongs and when they read the, quote the citation out they read a bit of your war record. And we went through all these motions and had the clasp that went with it and the gong. And a little while later I was walking underneath the Lancaster. Our Lancaster. The Canadian one was there as well. They flew seven and a half hours over water in a seventy two year old aeroplane. That’s guts for you isn’t it? And they did it on the way back as well. The Canadian crew. Anyway, I’m walking about underneath this Lanc and the crew chief must have been listening and he came to the edge and he said. ‘Do you want to come aboard?’ Do I want to come up? Seventy five years since I’d been aboard a Lanc. Pat has a story. My daughter. She said, ‘You’re creeping about with your walking stick and as soon as he said come aboard you’re like a rat up a drainpipe,’ she said, ‘You couldn’t get in quick enough,’ [laughs] Funnily enough I had a feeling of claustrophobia when I got in. I didn’t realise how close it was inside the Lanc. And I used to get in there in full gear with my bag of tools, my parachute, my clipboard. In full altitude gear, helmet, oxygen mask on and climb over the main spar. And there was only about two feet between the top of the main spar and I used to get over that like a monkey. And I’m holding on to things here trying to get over the fuselage. A one in three slope. I didn’t get over the main spar. I never got on. My son in law did. Later on at Coningsby. He got over the main spar and into the front. He took some photographs of it inside. But I never got over it. Yeah. Silly isn’t it? But Pat’ll tell you that story. Like a rat up a drainpipe. I couldn’t get in at first because there was a step there that carries a dinghy — not a dinghy. Oh, I forget what but you’ve got to reach over this step to get into the Lanc and you’ve got to hang on to the bullet rails, you know. Bullet carrier rails to get in over this step. And I got in. I got over that and I got half up and there’s two two of the crew there watching people don’t do anything you know while they’re in the aircraft. There was two of us in at the time. The other fellow was in the rear looking in the rear turret. He was a rear gunner. I said, ‘Do you show the girl’s the golden rivet?’ He said, ‘Oh aye.’ We used to sneak the girls in at our squadron. Different popsies. You know, girlfriends. With the torchlight. The rest bed is half way down. Just behind the main spar. And the golden rivet is supposed to be over the other end of the rest bed. You know. Down below, underneath. And you get the girls to bend over and you bend over them. It’s Shangri la. You know. Showing them [laughs] He said, ‘We didn’t know about that. We’d have used that.’ But you’d have got done for that and all. We’d have got court martialled if we’d been caught doing that. Getting the girls inside the aircraft. I got Jean in. Yeah. I think, I think Ray got his girl in as well. Yeah. He did. Yeah. ‘What are you doing?’ ‘I’ve got to get over the back of you to show you where the rivet is.’ [laughs] Shangri la. Oh dear.
GT: Jim, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you. And your birthday’s coming up soon. Coming up Saturday.
JM: Sunday it is.
GT: Sunday. And you will be?
JM: Ninety four.
GT: Fabulous. And I know that.
JM: If I get there.
GT: It’s only a few days away.
JM: Oh, don’t you start. Pat’s like that.
GT: It’s only a few days away. You’ll make it.
JM: Many a slip between cup and lip.
GT: You’ll make it. Thank you very much for, for telling me some amazing information about your time with Bomber Command. Your time with Bomber Command number two afterwards. And I know the International Bomber Command Centre would be, will be very very pleased to receive your recording here.
JM: My pleasure.
GT: And its and you know we’ve, we’ve been chatting for one and three quarter hours so it’s a fabulous piece of history that you have, you have displayed with me.
JM: I must have happened to thousands of other Bomber Command people. There’s nothing unique about me. Thousands of others have been through the same experiences I’m sure. Or some closely near to it. Yeah.
GT: I I would suggest that many haven’t had the opportunity to tell their story. There’s many that do not want to tell their story. You are a gentleman that has been very easy with your story and been very willing to tell it and it’s fabulous. It’s a fabulous piece of history.
JM: I suppose its, it’s a matter of boasting I suppose. I survived.
GT: No. You —
JM: I didn’t intend to boast in any way. It’s all true.
GT: You survived by the four letter word that you all taught.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Luck.
JM: That’s it. I was once told that flying was ninety percent boredom and ten percent luck. And that’s how you survive. Not far from the truth in some degree.
GT: Yes. It is. It is indeed, Jim. Well, happy birthday for Sunday.
JM: Thank you. But the, the youngsters Pat and David are organising a do on Saturday at our local steakhouse and there’s quite a few of us going to be there. The granddaughter, my great granddaughter Alia she’s going to Belgium on the same day, Sunday that my birthday is so to celebrate it we’re having the do on Saturday. We’re doing it then. There’s going to be his mother, Alia’s mother, Alia, David, Pat and myself and Pat’s mother, Mary. Which is quite a few of us.
GT: Well, I know your family very much love you and obviously are looking out for you. Caring for you. And you’re a very valuable person to us and the 75 Squadron Associations of New Zealand and UK and I very much have been impressed and thankful for your discussion with me today.
JM: I’ve enjoyed your company, Glen. Very much so. You’re a very understanding person and you’ve put me dry dead easy. You must have had some experience of this. One of the interviews I did for the Command people, Pat was listening outside and she came in. She said, ‘I haven’t heard half of this that your telling this fellow. Why don’t you tell me?’ I said, ‘You don’t want to know.’ She said, ‘I do want to know. Alia wants to know. Amy wants to know. Katy wants to know.’ Yeah.
GT: Excellent. Yeah. Well, see even your family can give you a right bollocking. Now, one last thing. Could you drive a car when you —
JM: I could do. Yes.
GT: During, during the time that you were serving on Bomber Command during World War Two.
JM: No. I didn’t drive a car then although I had a licence to drive because you were issued with a licence during the wartime years to drive any vehicle without, a provisional licence but without supervision. You could drive. So I did drive a car on several occasions then. Before I entered the RAF.
GT: The reason I asked you is because I interviewed a gentleman in New Zealand. A English man who was shot down on his third operation. Not on 75. Another squadron. And survived the POW time, and when the gates were thrown open five of his fellow POWs raced into the local town heading towards the Americans as opposed to away from the Russians and they came across a German driving a Mercedes car. And they hooked him out and he ran away. And then they looked at each other and said, ‘Right who’s going to drive us?’ And there was two pilots of Lancasters, there was a rear gunner, a bomb aimer and a flight engineer. None of those five or six chaps had ever driven a car before and they, they just all had to laugh at each other thinking gosh we’ve just survived all this and now we can’t even drive a car.
JM: It’s funny. You’ve triggered one there because I had a, as I say I pinched an ober feldwebels hat and I used to have this on at Leipzig. When we were at Leipzig. I used to carry this on. And I saw four people get out of a pre-war Ford. What the small Ford they had with the pointed nose and I said, ‘Whose is that?’ They said, ‘We’ve had it for a bit but you can have it if you want it. But,’ he said, ‘You’ll have to join up the clips at the back. They’d taken a battery out of a Focke Wulf 190 and put it on the back seat and hot-wired the ignition so as they could use this Ford. So he could start it and stop it. You stopped it by putting it in gear you know and holding the brake on and start it with a starter. So I drove this about for a bit. I quite enjoyed this with this f’ing great, it was about that long on the back seat out of a Focke Wulf 190. So I coupled it up. Got it driving and the Yanks were still bringing prisoners of war off the road on to the camp. And one of them saw me driving up the outside of this column that was going down and I was driving up the outside and he looked up and he saluted. He saw this car. Thought it was an RAF car. I got a Yankee soldier — a salute of a Yankee soldier would you believe. Aye. Yeah. It did happen that. Yeah. Surprising. And I handed it over to another group as I signalled some people out of a back column. Said, ‘Come over here a bit.’ I said, ‘This is what you do.’ ‘Right,’ they said. ‘Leave them off. We’ll do it.’ So, they took it over from me. To fill it up with petrol we just drove up to the Yankee filling station. ‘How much do you want?’ ‘Fill it up.’ He filled it up till it dripped out the side. Put the cap back on. Yeah.
GT: Recently I’ve interviewed two chaps. One — both in New Zealand Arthur Askew and Bruce Cunningham and both were POWs. Both with extensive stories to tell as obviously you have too. Recently you also flew with Project Propeller.
JM: Yes.
GT: By Graham Cowie. A very very worthwhile —
JM: That’s where I met Dee. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And in this case, this last Project Propeller you were on two weeks ago.
JM: Yeah.
GT: You met up with some other fellow POWs I understand.
JM: Yeah. I showed you the picture there. They were at Bankau in Upper Silesia in Poland at the same time I was. There was another Caterpillar wearer there. There’s only two of us. And apart from, as far as we know we’re the only survivors that are available at this time of the year. If the others had survived then they can’t make the journey. But the Propeller Club are very good. Mind you we picked the worst day of the whole fortnight. The weather was terrible. Both going and coming back.
GT: Yeah.
JM: The pilot offered it to me. I said, ‘Not bloody likely. It’s too lively for me that is.’ He’s working hard at it all the time, you know. Shuddering and bumping. And it was the same coming up. We only just made it with the visibility coming back. Somebody going up north said, ‘You’d better get going pretty soon,’ from Halfpenny Green at Wolverhampton, ‘Because it’s closing in up there,’ and it did. I could see the rain streaming back off and you couldn’t see more than about a mile ahead it was so closed in. The weather. But it did begin to get a little bit clearer as we got to Barton and it was clear enough to land there.
GT: This was not your first project propeller though. Right?
JM: No. We went. We were — we’d gone three years before with a bloke called Duncan Edwards who lives in Bramhall and actually knows David and he had a share in a 72.
GT: And David’s your son in law.
JM: Yeah. David. And he knew him and but for two years we were stopped by bad weather from flying into the reunion.
GT: Yeah.
JM: So, it was the third year running.
GT: [unclear]
JM: That we’d try to get into this reunion. And we got this horrible bad weather to go with it. Bad weather. Aye. It was.
GT: So have you been to the International Bomber Command Centre yet?
JM: Oh yes. We went there when it first opened. We were invited there. Dee came as well. She gave me a wreath to put on the 75 Squadron gravestone.
GT: Brilliant. Dee Boneham’s the treasurer of the 75 Squadron Association in the UK.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Brilliant.
JM: Yeah. She’s a nice person, Dee.
GT: So, what’s your impressions of the IBCC Memorial?
JM: It’s very impressive isn’t it? Particularly the ring of stones around it. And it’s as high as the Lancaster wing is broad isn’t it? So they say. Yeah. It’s the same height as the width of a Lancaster wing.
GT: Did you see the displays inside?
JM: Yes I did. Yes. I did. They had a Blenheim come over and what was the other aircraft? Another. Oh, a Vulcan came over. And a Blenheim, whilst we were there. The Vulcan went over to Lincoln and flew over there, I think the Blenheim did as well. So they came and paid their respects as it were. When it was first opened. Yeah. It was very impressive. Particularly inside. Yeah. I can’t remember half the things I saw but it was very impressive I must admit. They’ve done a wonderful job. All volunteers as well isn’t it? Yeah. Not a paid hand amongst them. Incredible.
GT: They wish to keep your stories and your experiences alive for those of us in the future and it’s —
JM: The kids now don’t want to know do they? They don’t want to know. It’s outside their, it’s on another planet as far as they’re concerned. I think so anyway. Except for Pat and the local family of course. They’re interested. Yeah. Alia brought me back that stick in the hall from Poland. She smuggled it through the guards by putting it up inside her coat. I’ll show you when you go out. It’s all the way from Poland that walking stick. Yeah.
GT: Jim, I’ve often asked veterans that — what Bomber Command did and what Churchill and Bomber Harris achieved. Could they have done it any other way?
JM: I don’t think so. No. I think Butch Harris was right in as much as he said and I quote, ‘They sowed the wind. They’ll reap the whirlwind,’ unquote. And I think that’s what happened. Yeah. A lot of civilians obviously died. That was unavoidable. A lot of our civilians died. I got blown out of bed a couple of times ‘til I got fed up with it and joined up. A bloke in the next street got decapitated because he stayed. He stayed in bed instead of going down in his shelter. His mother and he used to go down in his shelter, ‘Come on.’ ‘Not I. I’m not going.’ but finished up underneath the bed. He didn’t half get, phew. When the Yanks bombed us in that siding it was terrifying. They were 500s. We were dropping four thousand pound blasters and thousand pounders. Dear oh dear.
GT: And your losses.
JM: Yeah. Sixty eight thousand operational aircrew. Fifty six thousand died. The highest attrition rate, attrition rate of any force in the world and no record of those who were wounded. Lost arms, or legs or eyes. No record of that. Must be many thousands more. Fifty six thousand. It’s incredible isn’t it? It works out into one in three isn’t it? Oh. No. One in two. One in two. Yeah. Rather less than one in two. We’d had, we’d have a crew move in to our Nissen hut and share handshakes all around. Show them how to operate the lock and particularly how to operate the stove to get the best heat out of it and the next day they’d gone. We’ve got the SPs coming to collect their kit and remove any offensive material, you know that might be in the lockers. Yeah. Gone. And we only had a handshake and they’d gone. That was a bit sobering at times. Yeah. The average life of a crew on squadron was five weeks. Not a lot is it out of a young man’s life? How the hell I survived I’ll never know. Somebody up there wanted me to carry on. I don’t know who but thank you very much. I’ve had a family since then and that’s been a bit of a bonus. Yeah.
GT: A great survivor. Thanks Jim.
JM: Dee said that once to me. She said, ‘You’re a survivor aren’t you, Jim?’ I said, ‘I hope you’re right.’ She’s a wonderful woman, isn’t she? Dee.
GT: Ninety plus, Jim.
JM: Aye.
GT: That’s awesome.
JM: She’s wonderful.
GT: Well, there are a bunch of us that are wanting to ensure that you realise and know and feel that we both love you and we also appreciate the service you did for both the king, the country and us.
JM: With the many thousands of others don’t forget. You know, there’s nothing unique about me as I repeat. Many thousands of others. And the real heroes are the ones that didn’t come back. They’re the real heroes. They made the sacrifice. We didn’t.
GT: Well, your sacrifice was your POW time.
JM: Yeah. That was a bit nasty.
GT: Yeah.
JM: I didn’t like that at all. I thought that was a bit unfair. Making me walk all those miles. Yeah. A bit unfair that [laughs] Trudging through snow. As far as your eye could see was snow. Just the telephone lines to tell you where they road because they were on the right hand side of the road. The only difference between the road and the field as far as the eye could see. Snow. And then the blizzards would start. Your eyelids would freeze. Close an eyelid and it would freeze. Oh dear. Glasses. I didn’t wear glasses then. Oh dear. It’s all [pause] it all seems to have happened to another person. Didn’t seem to have happened to me but it did. It did. Yeah. I showed you that mug, didn’t I?
GT: Yes.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Very good. Jim, let’s, let’s complete our interview now and thank you very much for, for your time and I will make sure your record is posted again with the IBCC and they will send you details of today’s visit and interview with you. So, thank you.
JM: I’ve enjoyed our time together, Glen. You’re a wonderful person yourself. Come on. Come on. No false modesty. You’ve done the armaments course. You know everybody that needs to be known and you’ve pumped me dry that’s for sure. With a great deal of skill I might add. Yeah.
GT: My special cause is you great gentlemen. So thank you. Righto. Ok.
JM: Thanks a lot, Glen.
GT: Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Ok. We’ll sign off now.
Dublin Core
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Creator
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Glen Turner
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-07-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMulhallJE180703
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending OH summary
Format
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01:57:40 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
James Mulhall trained as a flight engineer and was posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. On one operation the crew were surprised to be presented by the ground crew with a .303 bullet which proved that they had been the recipient of friendly fire. On their thirty fourth operation their Lancaster was shot down and the crew became prisoners of war. James undertook the long march from Stalag Luft 7 to Luckenwalde. After the war James returned to engineering work and eventually worked on V force aircraft.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
Belgium--Brussels
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany--Homberg (Kassel)
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Oberursel
Poland--Tychowo
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944-05
1945-07
Title
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Interview with James Mulhall. Two
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Caterpillar Club
displaced person
Dulag Luft
fear
flight engineer
Fw 190
incendiary device
Lancaster
memorial
perception of bombing war
prisoner of war
RAF Mepal
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/356/5771/AFirthJB160706.2.mp3
5b178253d70f57f1c2b6516ac6eff4bd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Firth, John
John Firth
J B Firth
Description
An account of the resource
11 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer John Bernard Firth (1924-2016, 1850441 Royal Air Force), his logbook, a home-made prisoner of war Christmas card, and seven photographs. John Firth was a flight engineer with 50 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe June to August 1944. He was shot down in August 1944 on his 20th operation and became a prisoner of war at Stalag Luft 7.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Firth and catalogued by and Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-06
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Firth, JB
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB. My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 6th of July 2016 I am in Slough with John Firth who was a Flight Engineer on 50 Squadron and he is going to talk about his life and particularly his RAF Experiences. John what are the first things that you remember?
JB. Well, well after leaving School?
CB. No the first things you remember in life with your Parents where were you born and what did you do?
JB. Oh, I was born, I was born in Yorkshire in a little village called Thurnscoe and, and we moved down when I was five years old to, to Slough. Em, and we moved down because my Father got a bit of a chest problem with the dust and that and so we moved down here. He did quite well then afterwards em, in the building trade. I personally left school at, at fourteen and eh I got a little job for the Co-op as an errand boy and I, I had that for about eighteen months. After which I went into a factory em it’s called Sweeties and eh I, I stayed in there until I was called up at eighteen. And so when I went into the RAF I went to Padgate where, where we got introduced to all the rights and wrongs and legal side of things and I done about three months there. Then I went to, “where was it?”
CB. You went to Locking.
JB. Locking it was Locking, I em which was a Flight Mechanics course, that took about three months and then “what did I do then” I have lost my bit of paper.
CB. What were you learning at Locking?
JB. Engineer, Engines mostly other, other, other fellows were aircraft, that’s the aircraft em [pause].
CB. That was all types of aero engine was it?
JB. Any type whatever was fitted to the aeroplanes. So we took that, that didn’t last very long and I, I was, I went to “where was it?”
CB. To Colerne.
JB. To Colerne.
CB. To the MU at Bath at Colerne, yeah.
JB. And from Colerne I went to. I went to, I was posted to.
CB. To St Athan.
JB. To St Athans, St Athans.
CB. What did you do there?
JB. I took on the Flight Engineers course.
CB. What did that involve, what was involved in the Flight Engineers course?
JB. That involved more Engineering knowledge, more then for Airframes as well but that, that, that’s took about three months.
CB. And how broad was that, what other things Airframes, Engines what else?
JB. Airframes and Engines.
CB. What else, hydraulics?
JB. Hydraulics and whatever is going to be in the near future for me. Em from there I got, I went to Scampton waiting for me Crew and was there a few weeks when I got posted again to Wigsley where I picked me Crew up and then, which they had been flying on Blenheims for a number of weeks and months and eh, and so with a four engined bomber they had to have an Engineer.
CB. They’d been on Wellingtons.
JB. Sorry.
CB. They had been on Wellingtons.
JB. They had been on Wellingtons, yes. Where were we?
CB. So from Wigsley, what were you flying at Wigsley?
JB. Flying Stirling’s at Wigsley and had a very short course there to contradict what we had already learned on the Lancaster, every thing was electric on Stirling’s, electric undercarriage, flaps and that sort of thing.
CB. And this was and HCU?
JB. Yeah at Wigsley.
CB. Then what?
JB. And once we done that we, we, we moved Crew then, we were all satisfied with the Crew, they seemed to be satisfied with me.
CB. How did you Crew up in the first place?
JB. Well we met, well I met the NC, the NCOs in the Sergeants Mess and they introduced me to the two Officers who were the Pilot and the Bomb Aimer so from there we went to Syerston didn’t we?
CB. From Wigsley you went to Syerston.
JB. To Syerston, where we did a short course on sort of Affiliation sort of thing.
CB. That was the Lancaster again, that was the Lancaster Finishing School.
JB. Yes that’s right and then.
CB. So when you were at the Finishing School what did you do then at the Finishing School in the Lancaster?
JB. Well we got, we immediately went to 50 Squadron and early June was our first Op.
CB. Which year are we now, which year 1944 and the first op?
JB. It was Stuttgart, woof, we didn’t get there, it got cancelled so we turned so we missed a little bit of something. Em and from there on we, as a Crew we gelled very well together and eh.
CB. So you went to Stuttgart on your first Op why was that abortred.
JB. That I never found out but it just got aborted by radio.
CB. How far were you on the trip?
JB. It was well over the North Sea so we turned back, we turned back and from then on like I said the Crew gelled very well and then [background microphone noise]
CB. Keep going.
JB. Until the last OP.
CB. So what other trips did you do?
JB. Stuttgart, Keil, Gelsenkirchen and a lot, a lot of them were in France helping the, the Soldiers that were on the ground because we just invaded we just went into France that was what we were doing.
CB. They were daylight raids,
JB. Pardon.
CB. They were daylight raids was they over France.
JB. No some was night time, most of them was in night time in Germany and there was a, one trip we went to was the [hesitant] Les Desaurant[?] I think it was a Marshalling Yard south of, south of Paris we went for two days running there because we didn’t do the first job and the second job, the second time we were on went. We got shot up there, there was a big hole underneath the [unclear] turret, the Skipper couldn’t hold the kite, hold the aircraft steady because it was too, he had no help. The trimmer, one of the trimmers had gone. So my job, I had to go and repair it, which I did.
CB. So this is on the tail plane, the trimmer on the tail plane?
JB. That’s right.
CB. So how did you repair that?
JB. Well with the eh dinghy, there is a certain amount of eh space when I pulled the wires together which had been cut. So I doubled them back and, and tied them up with the tail plane and every time I moved, like this, it moved the trimmer. And the Skipper kept moaning at me [laugh] but it worked, it worked anyway. So when we landed, we crashed because one of the, one of the tyres were flat and dug in and shot over and we. I think it was a right off but we all got out.
CB. Can you just us through that, so you come in, did you know the tyre was punctured when you were on approach.
JB. No I didn’t ‘cause it only looked exactly the same as a good wheel, well it, it had a slice in it.
CB. The Pilot had no idea he was going to experience this inbalance?
JB. No he didn’t.
CB. Ok, so what happened, as soon as he touched down?
JB. As soon as he touched down it, it swung, dug in like.
CB. On the runway, on the concrete runway.
JB. It shot us off the runway and but em.
CB. Which way?
JB. Port side, Port side and that was it, well the Ground Crew told me the following morning we was very, very lucky because after the trimmers and all that, they had these rods that worked the elevators and the, and the rudders one of those was split almost in half. So it was very lucky that didn’t bend otherwise we would have been in trouble.
CB. So the under, the tyre, the wheel dug into the runway did the undercarriage collapse, what happened?
JB. No not really it just dug in, the damage the shells hit it with damaged all the tailplane so we was very lucky on that one.
CB. So on these circumstances what did they do, take the tail of and change it?
JB. I don’t know, I don’t really know, we didn’t fly in it again [unclear] it was a right off.
CB. So you had to have a new aeroplane?
JB. Well I suppose, yes.
CB. Was it new or did they just give you another one?
JB. I don’t know, don’t know.
CB. So which flight, how many raids was this. How many trips had you done at that stage?
JB. At that stage?
CB. Just roughly.
JB. Let me look in me book. [pages turning]
CB. We are just looking at the list,I’ll hang on.
JB. Something after that was an NFT.
CB. Right.
CB. So this seems to have been the sixth Op that you went on, and eh so what happened after that?
JB. Eh, everything went well we did a few [unclear] and another Stuttgart and so forth. I say we gelled very well until August the 8th, 7th and 8th.
CB. What happened then?
JB. We got shot down.
CB. Ok can you take us through that. So was it a Fighter or flak?
JB. It was a Fighter.
CB. What was your target that day?
JB. It was a raid on Sepperaville [?] and when we got there [unclear] we had a wireless confirmation to stop bombing, or they stopped bombing. So we carried the bombs and we were going to sort of drop in the South of England, not on England [laugh] and we got the Navigator to give us a route between Le Havre and Lauren it would take us where we wanted to be and it was about midnight and we was, we was, the Gunners decided, warned us we had, had a visitor which was a Fighter and they. It was round about eight or nine hundred yards, or feet I don’t know. Then he started getting closer, and closer until the Rear Gunner said do a Corks, Corkscrew Skip put down to port ‘cause he is on the port side and down we went quickly, I had, I was standing then and eh [laugh] I had nothing to hold onto and so gravity through me to the ceiling of the canopy and when he pulled out I dropped down onto me knees. I got up and this Fighter had opened fire and strafed us right across the wing tip, or wings from wing tip to wing tip. One shell went through in between the Skipper and I and broke the front, front glass and that and a fire started, fire. The Skipper said we will try and put this fire out, I pressed all the buttons that were required. Then he said “abandon aircraft.”
CB. Where was the fire?
JB. The fire, right along the wings, wings. I was coming out of petrol which was spread out obviously and wings well on fire he said “is that it” I say, [unclear] he said “abandon aircraft.” I stayed there with him, because it was my duty to look after him as well as me. I found his parachute, gave it to him, but he took it off, he hardly put it on. He put it alongside himself because he was trying to hold, hold the aircraft in a steady position for people.
CB. So people could get out?
JB. Yeah, so some got out the back, I, and then he said to me, “go on get out John.” And I went down into the Bomb Aimers place where the trap door was and I couldn’t believe, this is true, but the hole you get out of was halved because the cover had been drawn back by the slip stream and jammed in this hole. I kicked it, I pushed it [laugh] I couldn’t move it. So I started to be a bit concerned. I didn’t quite know what to do at that time but well I thought half of that is not too little for me because I can get through that. So I had my ‘chute on of course, had me back to this thing that stuck up inside and em, I slid down, well I couldn’t get out because me ‘chute had trapped because I didn’t allow that in sorts. But there I was, the plane was going along and I am out, with me legs outside and you want to know what I feel like. I felt I was going to loose me legs, frightened me to death, this is true. And I, and I pushed and I kicked me legs and me boots went and, and I panicked but suddenly me brain stopped, started working and the straps on the parachute harness is only held on by a thin cord so that it gives you the height, the height when the ‘chute opens. So I gave it a good clout and I went out and I held this parachute with one hand and pulled the cord with the other, pulled the ring with the other and it opened but it took me a little while no sooner had it opened and I suppose about a hundred feet and I touched down. It took me a little while, that’s why I, I was out I was landed pretty near the aircraft. I say that it was within a mile or two, it got in very fast. I got down stuffed my ‘chute around as best I could, got out round to this road or lane, like a country lane and then I was caught because three Germans were in, came along with their guns and all that and picked me up. They took me back, took me back to the Headquarters in this em, in this bike and sidecar. They gave me a seat in the car and one was on the front of the, the car and the other one was on the pillion and the other was the driver. The one on the pillion had a gun at me head all the way back just in case I suppose he thought I might, and that was it for that night.
CB. So were you the last out of the aircraft or?
JB. I think I must have been.
CB. What happened to the Pilot?
JB. He got killed.
CB. He didn’t get out?
JB. He didn’t get out, the Navigator didn’t get out and the Wireless Operator I don’t know what happened to him because after the war I met my Mid Upper Gunner and he filled me with a bit of things that I missed, He said he spoke to Don Mellish at the back door and he walked back, he went back in.
CB. Mellish went back in?
JB. Yeah
CB. To do what?
JB. He probably didn’t want to.
CB. To get out?
JB. It’s a I don’t know.
CB. So Don Mellish was the Wireless Operator.
JB. Yes that’s right and as I say the Mid Upper Gunner spoke to him and he said “I don’t know what he went back for” he went back and of course he went out himself.
CB. How did Arthur Meredith the Rear Gunner get out?
JB. That I don’t know, I was too busy up the front.
CB. I wondered if you found out afterwards.
JB. No, no they just went.
CB. But the only person killed, there were three killed were there?
JB. There were three killned.
CB. What about the Navigator what stopped him getting out?
JB. I don’t know, because, I don’t know.
CB. Wither he tried the back or not I don’t know, I don’t know because routine was Bomb Aimer, Me, Navigator or other way round, he didn’t pass me so I don’t know what happened to him. Is this, all this going down.
CB. We are all right. These are the realities of those things aren’t they.
JB. It’s, it’s.
CB. It is an emotional experience.
JB. Yes it is I am the luckiest man in the round, I should have been there with my mate.
CB. I know what you mean.
JB. Now they have gone.
CB. You done a brilliant job getting out just holding, you held the parachute. It wasn’t attached to you, you just held it?
JB. No it was attached.
CB. It still was attached.
JB. Yeah, attached, it’s like a board it’s, the whole ‘chute is planted on this board.
CB. Because it is a front parachute.
JB. Yeah.
CB. Chest parachute.
JB. That’s right.
CB. And what, what type of parachute does the Pilot have does he have a chest parachute or he normally?
JB. Yes he has a chest parachute he preferred instead of the sitting on one ‘cause he is a tall man.
CB. Ok
JB. So that is probably the reason, that’s why I had to find his ‘chute for him or look after him.
CB. So on the Lancaster there are three escape hatches are there? One at the front where the Bomb Aimers position is, the other through the lid where the Pilot is, is that right?
JB. He think he got out the top, yes but.
CB. And the other is the door at the back.
JB. There is a door at the back.
CB. Is there any other.
JB. No [unclear]
CB. And the Rear Turret pivots so the idea is the.
JB. Sometimes they could.
CB. Roll out backwards.
JB. Yeah, go out backwards. Wither that is true or not I don’t know.
CB. So when the aircraft was hit, what happened to the controls, the Pilot was struggling by the sound of it to keep control, why was that.
JB. He was struggling, yes, because we was well on fire, when I got out. I looked up the flames was the, the width of the aircraft or the wingspan and it was amazing, amazing.
CB. The Lancaster had self sealing fuel tanks but with the level of damage presumably that wasn’t going to work.
JB. Yeah, they had all that but they must have had a leak somewhere.
CB. Did the Rear Gunner get a shot at this Fighter or not?
JB. Apparently from what I was told by the Mid Upper Gunner, they, they had it confirmed that they shot it down.
CB. Oh did they.
JB. Yeah but that I wouldn’t know.
CB. But the Squadron record perhaps confirms that?
JB. Yeah.
CB. So now you have landed, the German Soldiers have taken you in the side car to the Head Quarters, then what?
JB. Yeah, the Head Quarters Em, oh there, em.
CB. That’s the picture of.
JB. That’s me and my wife when we went back to France.
CB. Right, that’s a sort of Chateau.
JB. That’s it, that’s where they held me but not in there, there is a little shed next to it. They said put me there and they put a Guard sort of thing. And in the morning, they kept, all these soldiers kept coming in and having a look and all that and I “what they looking for” you know and eh when I got out and had a look ‘cause they let me, I had to have a bit of fresh air. What that was, was a urinal was there just by this window [laugh] and they was having a gaze at me while I was having one, it wasn’t funny but.
CB. No, so what did they do, they gave you food and water?
JB. Yeah they gave me, they gave me some gruel or something for lunch, for breakfast.
CB. What is gruel?
JB.Something like porridge, something like that. Em, they gave me a pair of clogs suffice, they did suffice ‘cause I couldn’t get on with them and I took em off and eh.
CB. Because your flying boots came off before you jumped.
JB. Yeah they came off because I was kicking them away, trying to sort of get out eh it frightened me to death.
CB. What sort of height do you think you were at before you actually got out.
JB. I don’t, I should think when I went out which would be about fifteen hundred or two thousand feet. Not very high enough to have a good swing, you know? We was flying at ten thousand feet anyway.
CB. Oh were you, that’s quite low.
JB. Then we had this dive and a cork screw, down one way, down the other and so forth.
CB. And then pull up again.
JB. Yeah, yeah.
CB. So after they have given you the gruel and something and water and then what.
JB. Oh they took me to Luanne em I was interviewed by a eh an Officer of some description he told me off for not saluting him. I said we don’t salute people with no head dress. I can remember that actually he got onto me about the Bombing doing Bombing and hospitals and all about that sort of thing. Told me off and then he took me back through em Luanne into this it looked like a, I don’t know I was on the [unclear] covered in wire netting it was a building but several shelters, sheds a brick building, this wire netting at front. I could look across and there was dormitories and that’s where these soldiers was in this dormitory. It looked as though it was in something like a Church business that church eh eh College or something like that, I don’t know quite what it was. I was there for a few days and they put me on a train to sort of don’t know this place where I got interviewed again by the, by the people there.
CB. Were they Air Force people or were they?
JB. This one that they took me to at first, there were a lot of soldiers there and eh I walked through this, this marquee where these soldiers were lying on that, you know, looking for bed space and somebody shouts “Johnnie Firth” and it was one of my class mates at school. He had been in the, what do you call it Troopers.
CB. Paratroopers.
JB. Paratroopers, yeah but they had been caught and they took me then from there on the train, it took a little while to eh Stalag Luft 7.
CB. Where is that?
JB. Where I ended up.
CB. Yes where is Stalag Luft 7?
JB. Its in [unclear].
CB. Czechoslovakia.
JB. I’ve got the name of the eh here the village there, but I don’t know where it is now.
CB. Ok just going back a bit what was the questioning that the Captors did so you, at the first em interrogation, what did they ask you?
JB. All sorts of thing you know but all I could answer was number, rank, name they didn’t threaten me with anything much. I was taught, or some bloke said they threatened to shoot them if they didn’t tell us. I didn’t go through any of that.
CB. And the second interview, interrogation further along, what was that?
JB. That was that sort of thing, sort of where he started mouthing on about being a you know criminals or something like that, but that didn’t last either [unclear] I got to sort of Silesia or Stalag Luft 7 A friend, a friend of mine was there, that I had done an Engineers course, but he had failed the course and I got on a bit further you know than he and he was shot down on his first trip, another Yorkshire man you know [laugh].
CB. Had he been recoursed to something other than Flight Engineer or did they put him through the course again?
JB. No he did the course eventually he passed yes.
CB. OK. So what did you find out what happened to the rest of your Crew.
JB. No, I the Mid Upper Gunner who eh told me, filled me in about what was happening.
CB. Bill Johnstone.
JB. He died the year Christmas the year I saw him, I didn’t know he was going to die. Because somebody organised this, this eh trip back to France for me and my wife and we went back to see the eh the graves, it’s one grave with three people in it.
CB. Oh they did have the Pilot, Bomb Aimer and Navigator they had.
JB. Yes they did.
CB. Sorry Wireless Operator not the Navigator who got out, it was the Bomb Aimer was it?
JB. The Bomb Aimer yes Eddie Earnest.
CB. So the Pilot, Navigator
JB. Eddie Earnest made up our Crew that night, the Bombing Leader actually. He ended up, oh he ended up in India in charge of the eh Squadron out there. I met him afterwards of course at a reunion only once. I went to Lafrenaise twice you know to pay my respects. The people, the French people were very nice, very good.
CB. What, did the aircraft disintegrate or did it land in tact and burn out on the ground.
JB. No it blew up.
CB. So the Pilot was never found, was he, was he in the plane.
JB. No the three, they had three bodies that what it.
CB. And they did, right.
JB. [Unclear] so the Navigator didn’t get out either.
CB. No.
JB. We had a time bomb on that went off at seven o’clock in the morning and I was that close. Well I heard it eh you know. The thing, it landed in some sort of a wood.
CB. You are talking about the main bomb. The Cookie went of.
JB. Yeah it might have been the cookie, I don’t know about that, don’t know. I thought it was timed, I thought it was timed.
CB. So that would be a free fall.
JB. I don’t think we had a Cookie on at that time, about a thousand pounder because we were so close to our Troops we were.
CB. Of course, you wouldn’t want the bombs to spread out.
JB.The German Troops were so close, [hesitates] there is a map of it as well, now just recently, I don’t if it was on line is it Peter?
Peter. Yeah there was a local paper did a story about it didn’t they when you came back.
JB. On.on line there is what I have just been through again.
CB. If we could call that up that could be really useful.
Peter. Pretty sure it was to do.
JB. After that on line there is a map which shows you Shepeville [?] and, and the Forces that were there.
CB. It would be useful to sort of pick that up, so can we just go now to Silesia to Stalag Luft 7 so how big was that, how many people?
JB. About eight thousand I think something of a rough guess.
CB. And what Nationalities were there?
JB. Mostly British, mostly British.
CB. ‘cause with the title Stalag Luft in theory they were all Aircrew but were they.
JB. Yeah well yes.
CB. Were they all Aircrew?
JB. Yes in my experience and we knew about the audacity thing where they shot all those Aircrew.
CB. Stalag Luft 3.
JB. We got a bit of news about that.
CB. You did? And what was the mix of Prisoners there, was it the whole range of ranks?
JB. Em NCOs
CB. Only NCOs was it.
JB. More or less, yes. There were one or two that were eh, the Camp Commander for instance.
CB. What was he?
JB. He was eh, eh Second Lieutenant something like that.
CB. He was an Army man was he?
JB. Yeah we did have one Army bloke there, I think anyway, can’t remember now.
CB. How were you housed in what sort of buildings.
JB. In the first instance, there’s pictures somewhere, never mind, eh little huts, there was all these little huts with about ten blokes in each hut something like that but then they was building the, built this one outside, outside, outside the Camp.
CB. The wire.
JB. Along side of it and they were like dormitories, they had rooms in there and there was about thirteen to a room that sort of thing; just thinking back now. Got a picture of the em the, the sort of bedding is on bunks it is, it is twelve bunks in one block. They got three on the floor, three in the middle and three on the top and then you have the same thing alongside of it, they had sort of twelve to a block. You could get farted on from up there and farted on from down [laugh]. It wasn’t very pleasant.
CB. And what were you lying on was it planks, bare wood or what?
JB. Bedding.
CB. Oh there was bedding, what was the bedding made of?
JB. Hard stuff just like packed straw, something like that and blankets that’s all we had.
CB. What about heating?
JB. Heating, for heating we had, what heating or eating?
CB. Yes the heating as well as the eating but for heating in the rooms was there any heating?
JB. Either really we in the, in the rooms there was these little stoves but it was getting the fuel for them you know, that was difficult but the big, where the big eh other was no heating because it was getting, when I was there anyway, that, of the picture I have, I think was taken at eh Stalag 3a because that is where we ended up after the long march at Stalag 3a. It was an Army Camp and the weather was picking up then, it was getting warmer, it em.
CB. Where em, what about the food was there a big Mess Hall or how did you get the food dispensed?
JB. I have got a picture of that as well actually, it em eh, they used to fetch it round and it was soup in big bowels you know and that one bowl would have to feed two hundred men and you would have bread sometimes. They gave you bread or something like that. The meat was, was in these soups what, what meat there was. We used to look at these in a strand, it was stranded, “I’ve got a bit” [laugh].
CB. What did you eat in, because you didn’t have mess tins of your own, so what did they give you to eat from.
JB. Oh they gave us something, I can’t remem. You would pick up a tin or something you know? And things like that, but, but I made a cup out of mine, created a thing you know, sort of little handle made a thing of and you tightened a piece of string. Made it out of a little eh.
CB. Ingenuity.
JB. Yeah ingenuity. [laugh].
CB. Now what about Red Cross parcels?
JB. They were, they few and far between one another yeah eh but when we did get one sometimes in the beginning it was shared by sort of that half a dozen blokes what is shared with what is in there. Which was tinned, tinned stuff what em, cigarettes, I suppose meat and that sort of thing. A bit of cheese a tin with a bit of cheese in or something like that. But you would have to cut it up into bits to share it out.
CB. Did you get tinned milk?
JB. Tinned milk, can’t remember actually to tell the truth I can’t remember much about it.
CB. What was the date on which you were shot down.
JB. Eh seventh or eighth of August Midnight.
CB. Nineteen forty four.
JB. Nineteen forty four.
CB. So you were in Stalag Luft 7 for more that six months.
JB. Oh yeah, yeah.
CB. And as the end of the War came, what happened to you then?
JB. Em well we was at, we was at Stalag 3a.
CB. How did you come to move from Seven?
JB. First of all the, the em, the American Army released us or wanted to release us and we all run out, a lot of us got on their lorries and all that, they come to fetch us and they, then the Germans managed to a Machine Gunner and said “better get down otherwise you will get that.” So we all went in and they wouldn’t let us come. They didn’t agree with what the Americans was doing.
CB. The Russians wouldn’t let them do it would they?
JB. Yeah.
CB. Who was it/
JB. The Russians was there.
CB. So who was it who came?
JB. They just crossed the rivers there eh, they just crossed this river.
CB. The Oder was it?
JB. Sorry.
CB. The Oder.
JB. The Oder yeah, the Americans had got down as far as the Oder and they hadn’t crossed it, or they had crossed it ‘cause they came with their lorries to take us, but they went of without us. Because they was going to shoot us anyway.
CB. So who was going to shoot you, why didn’t they, if it was Germans, why didn’t they deal with the Germans?
JB. Well I don’t know, I think maybe it’s.
CB. Or was it the Russians who wouldn’t let you go?
JB. They still held us as Prisoners and told us all to get back in and we all went back to where we inhabited. The Russians did “Thank you Bert I am glad you came.” But the Americans came first, then the Russians took over, they came and with them coming all the Guards disappeared. They didn’t want to get hurt did they? Yes the Russians released us and they took us down to this river and we crossed by foot into the sort of the American Section if you like. The River Oder was that [unclear] but the Americans were that side of it and the Russians were this side of it. And that’s I suppose, but the Germans were still in there with us, you know, holding us at one time.
CB. So how did you come to leave then?
JB. The Russians took us to the river and we got of there, crossed the river and got on with the Yanks who took us from there up to, I don’t know what it was then just another sort of camp which was taken over now by the Allies.
CB. So you don’t, I was just trying to establish the sequence because you were in Stalag Luft 7, you then got to Stalag 3.
JB. Yeah.
CB. 3a so how did you get between those two?
JB. Walked.
CB. How far and how long?
JB. Three weeks walk.
CB. And what effect did that have on most of the Prisoners?
JB. Starvation, worst, snow and it was terrible, yeah, dead horses on the side of the road and what have you yeah [pause] I had forgotten all this.
CB. Was it one long column of prisoners or was it several columns doing different routes?
JB. It was one long column of us from Stalag Luft 7, there are, there were other columns like Stalag Luft 3 they were the closest to what we were apparently. They crossed, they were going one way we were going another way but eh this was and we were still with the Germans, the Germans was making us do this, they had dogs as well.
CB. They were forcing you to go towards the west. So how did you get food and water?
JB. How did we get food?
CB. How did you get food and water?
JB. How did you get food.
CB. How did you get food and water?
JB. Oh well they gave you at night, they would probably find you in a stable or something like that and they, they thery would have a field kitchen with like I said food or soup or that sort of thing. If you wanted to go to the toilet there was always one place where you could go sort of thing. That is in the yard and it was piles of this all over the place.[laugh] It was not very hygienic.
CB. So when you got to Stalag Luft, sorry Stalag 3 then what?
JB. Well we got put up, the soldiers put us up we was in, we was on the floor, sleeping on the floor to start with and eh, they moved us into another building that had these, these bunks and that, and eh one of the, one of the buildings was made out as temple by the Russians because we had some Russians in that Stalag, there were some Russians as well yeah. They got, what we heard was when they got released or we got released, they were straight back to the front where they were going to soldier on again. So many days, so many things, I can’t remember.
CB. So in the, in the March from Stalag Luft 7 to Stalag 3 what happened to peoples health and strength?
JB. Eh er there were three of us Jack Sidebottom and Bill Steiner and me self knitted together oh [unclear] Jack got a touch of the runs and he went right down the, right down the drain sort of, they had a sort of Hospital eh building but that was on the floor. I remember I sort of I washed off Bill eh Jacks’ trousers for him, he couldn’t do it.
CB. This was dysentery was it?
JB. Yes it was there was a lot of that.
CB. And what prompts dysentery, what makes it happen?
JB. Well there was little food and eh and if you eat anything that was rotten it was there. They had toilets there where you could have a chat with the next bloke ‘cause it was only a building. There was all these eh trenches covered with seats, toilet seats and you could have a fair old chat with people, I think that’s. I am ranting on, on.
CB. You are not, no it is the reality isn’t it?
JB. Yeah I suppose it could be.
CB. So you reached Stalag 3 and the Americans are looking after you there. What did they do about food because you do not want to eat too much as soon as you get in.
JB. When the Americans, they, they transported us to Brussels and we got flown home from there, from Brussels.
CB. Mm by whom, who flew you.
JB. RAF
CB. And you flew from there, Melsbroek was it and then into where?
JB.Eh; around Crewe around that area and then all we had on was burnt and the dressed us in that hospital blue, do you remember that? Just a blue flannel trouser and a blue flannel cover at the top[laugh] Then it blue, typical sickness thing.
CB. So for the people who had dysentery and other things how did they treat those?
JB. Well it,it just had to put up with it until it went away it was yeah.
CB. You come, when you land back here, what, what plane did you fly back in?
JB. Lancaster.
CB.Right, how many people in a Lancaster.
JB. Oh there was quite a lot, I would say , I don’t know, down the fuselage from, from the main spar down to the back, I would say about sixty peole, fifty or sixty people and then we would [unclear].
CB. And so you got back, what did they do as soon as you landed.
JB. Well they fed us and we was inspected for diseases and that sort of thing in a hanger, obviously if you got a lot of food, a bit difficult to eat, drink, stomachs went like that so you couldn’t eat much anyway.
CB. It is not good to have too much food when you haven’t been having it. So they kitted you out and then what?
JB. Once we got kitted out we went on leave, about six weeks I should think.
CB. And then after the leave where did they sent you because you were still technically in the Squadron.
JB. [Unclear] Eh I, I got posted to 71MU, “thank you, that’s all right” 71MU Slough,[unclear] and or the RAF had taken over the premier garage on the Bath road as a Camp, during the war and they, and they and I got posted there. I was obviously in the Sergeants Mess so I didn’t do a lot of work.[laugh] But eventually they decided to move. They moved from Slough up to the other side of Aylesbury.
CB. To Westcott.
JB. Westcott, yeah probably yeah that was one thing to the other side of, yeah.
CB. Or Bicester.
JB. Yeah.
CB. It was an MU was it?
JB. It was an MU.
CB. It went to Bicester 71.
JB. 71 and I went there as a, I was in charge of a gang [unclear] we went for dismantling aircraft and I wasn’t doing a lot of work, I was just making sure the lads got the eh themselves with a bed and that sort of thing. And then and that was at; Brize Norton they did a lot of work there.
CB. Was that an MU or was that an OTU?
JB. No that was, there was a Squadron there wasn’t there but as the MU people taking all these jobs.
CB. Yeah.
JB. They take the wings off and that sort of thing and then load it onto a Queen Mary and said good bye to it you know.
CB.The Queen Mary being the very big lorry.
JB. Yes that’s right [unclear]
CB. So now we are in 1946 aren’t we.
JB. Yes I haven’t come over then [?]
CB. When did you get demobbed?
JB. Eh; I’ve got it here, demobbed 1946.
CB. What time of year?
JB. What month, I don’t know.
CB. Summer, Winter, Ok then what did you do?
JB. Well what everybody does, have a good time. [laugh] I went back to Lincoln.
CB. What did you do there?
JB. I got a job with an aircraft factory just outside, Ah Woodford was it, Woodford.
CB. No at Lincoln it was Bracebridge Heath.
JB. Bracebridge Heath, that’s it. I got a job there working on aircraft that were still flying, not the big heavy bomber stuff but the[stops] Then I decided to come home again so I left and I come home and got a job at Hawker Aircraft at Langley and eh.
CB. You had been there before the war.
JB. No,no.
CB. You hadn’t?
JB. No before the war wa, I was at a factory called [unclear] engineering factory. The firm had another outlet at “what was that”
CB. White Waltham.
JB. White Waltham yeah but I wasn’t working there but that firm had another factory there.
CB. So how long did you work Hawker?
JB. At Hawkers, a couple of years and they moved over to London way from Combrook, it was Combrook they moved over from Combrook.
CB. They went to Kingston.
JB. And then I went to a firm, I forgot the name of it, sorry, I was there nineteen years. I went to British Airways, I was there seven years.
CB. At British Airways, at British Airways?
JB. British Airways, yeah and then I retired, I think. This is hard work.[laugh].
CB. Well we are resting now, thank you very much.
JB. Is that it?
CB. How did you come to meet Catherine, your wife, your future wife?
JB. The pub.
CB. Where was that?
JB. Good Companions, Slough.
CB. Slough ok and when were you married?
JB. 1961, 1961 I don’t know.
Unknown. When you got married must be 1951 was it?
JB and Unknown. [discussion as to when married]
CB. How old are your children?
JB. I have got no children.
CB. So that saved you a lot of money didn’t it?
JB. [laugh] a lot of heartache.
CB. Right ok so that is really good, thank you very much indeed.
CB. So we are just restarting to recover after the Bomber crash, then you had some links with the area, so what did you discover.
JB. Well there was a; this Gentleman that I met there, this Frenchman he, he had a little brother a brother younger than himself and that em when, in the explosion on the morning at seven o’clock his brother was sorting out something on the aircraft or something on what was left of the aircraft and the bomb went of and this man, “what’s his name” I was looking at it, [pause] he carried his lad or his brother from em from La Frenaise where we were to the nearest town which was Le Havre which had the Hospitals, but he died and carried him that far.
CB. So what had happened, the Bomb went of and what had happened to the boy?
JB. He died.
CB. Yes but what happened to him, did it blow him a long way away or what did it do. Do you know, what caused him to die in other words?
JB. No like I say he, he, within, with the explosion and then his brother which was this Gentleman that said or suggested at this time that I am taking the place of his brother friendly wise, but somebody else had told me he had carried his Brother to Le Havre.
CB. Le Havre, Hospital.
JB. Yeah, I’ve got a picture of him and he is sitting amongst the, a bit of, a bit of the engine, it’s all, none left of it, bits all over.
CB. They are all very distressing things these, because the aftermath of a crash, the unexpected.
JB. Yeah, but he is quite, and we; up to this year, last year, last Christmas we, we both swapped cards at Christmas from this fellow, Gentleman, fellow, I can’t think of his name.
CB. How did you come to meet him in the first place?
JB. Well I went to a, I went to a, not a reunion, I went when I went to Le Frenaise to pay my respects to the grave.
CB. At the cemetery?
JB. I met him there ‘cause they had made this ‘cause going there the had this little party sort of thing, plenty of people there, just as well. They were very nice to us.
CB. John how many times did you bale out?
JB. Well we baled out twice.
CB. Did you?
JB. Yes.
CB. What was the first reason?
JB. The first reason was everything stopped on the, on the Stirling and what was put to me before one of these things was because the, the oil filter on the Stirling was on the outside and just below the engines outside and they could easily freeze up and with all the engines stopping at the same time that is what happened and the Skipper said bale out but eventually he got it back going again. So I baled out, the two Gunners baled out and the Navigator didn’t go because I was, in the Stirling my position was in the middle of the aircraft not next to the Skipper and so I went out the back and we landed on the, then I heard this whistling and it was the Wireless Operator that was whistled me. He said “what do we do now” I said “go and see if we can get a telephone to get help.”
CB. Where were you?
JB. Sorry?
CB. Where was this?
JB. Lincolnshire, em and so we did walk to someone’s house and we got on the phone [unclear] through to the Police and I had no boots, so this Gentleman loaned me his slippers and having got to go back to Camp, they were nice slippers and I never sent them back. But I was brought up in front of the CO and he gave me a right nasty bollocking and he said.
CB. For having the slippers on, or for getting out of the aeroplane?
JB. No, for not sending the slippers back and “now” he said “you will go and pack them and you will write a letter of apology and you will fetch it to me and I will read it.” So I had to do it and took it back and he said “be careful in future you.” He said.
CB. So you did send back the slippers?
JB. I did send them back yeah, but that under threat wasn’t it.
CB. Right, so the aircraft returned?
JB. Yeah, so the aircraft returned and when he returned he returned with,with a Senior Pilot and I heard no more after that. I suggested that and the Skipper took it disgusted with his seniors.
CB. You are talking about the fault being the seizing up of the oil cooler?
JB. Yeah Unlicky wasn’t we, I was lucky, we was all lucky that one but I, I say I am the luckiest man in the World that was it twice.
CB. While we were on the Stirling just talk us through what your role was as Flight Engineer, first on the Stirling then on the Lancaster.
JB. Oh the Engineers job was to assist the Pilot every way you can, is to, you have to write a log, or keep a log of petrol, oil pressure, oil temperature, it all had to go down on the log. Do it every half hour or so or every hour and whatever else. You might get a fellow who can go back and eh join two bits of wire together[laugh] and cause lots of trouble for the Skipper then it is just not quite right, oh well.
CB. So here you are, your position in the Stirling was further back but on take off where would you be?
JB. In the Stirling on take off, I would be in the middle of the aircraft I’d be putting back the priming ‘cause when you start the engines the prime, the Engineer used to prime the engines from inside the aircraft where as in the Lanc they do it from the outside, don’t they? That’s what I would be doing, tidying up again.
CB. And how were the engines started with a trolley acc or cartridges?
JB. No trolley acc, the same as eh, the same as the Lanc.
CB. And then on take off the Pilot is controlling the throttles not the Engineer.
JB. He is not?
CB. In the Stirling on take of who is controlling the throttles, the Pilot or the Engineer?
JB. Em on the Stirling I don’t know but on.
CB. You weren’t anyway.
JB. I wasn’t but on a Lancaster I was. The Skipper would get it so far, he had four levers and, and until he got it running straight and then he would ask for full power and I did the business then because when you are on full power he can’t twiddle;
CB. And you are sitting on a, next to the Pilot on a Lancaster?
JB. Yeah it is a moveable seat and a lot of the time I would be standing, but the seat felt as a strap, it wasn’t a very comfortable seat.
CB. So you stood a lot?
JB. Yeah.
CB. The reason you got caught out on the corkscrew was because you was standing at the time, was it?
JB. Yes that right yeah.
CB.Talking about engines again, so to clarify on both aircraft all the throttle levers, all four of them were next to each other. When you run up the aircraft engines before take off how do you synchronise the engines and who does it?
JB. Well the Pilot does it.
CB. Ok so how does he do that?
JB. He does it for steering, steering purposes and so if he wants to sort of go this way he will give it a little bit of power on this engine and so forth and then when he comes up to the point where he’s got it ready for take off, two thirds of the way down the runway then it is up to the Pilot or the Engineer to sort of put it onto full power.
CB. You put your hand on it, left hand on the throttle and push them through the gate?
JB. No he used to have his hand on that and I had it underneath, likewise.
CB. Right,your left hand pushing it?
JB. Yeah I put ‘em up and tightened the what’s its name down, you loosen it off for him when he wants to come back and get the flying side, getting his flying in, so it is synchronise.
CB. So he is synchronising the engines in the air not on the ground is he.
JB. Not on the ground, no that’s for steering.
CB. Right and what about the pitch how did you deal with that?
JB. The pitch of the aircraft.
CB. No the pitch of the propellors?
JB. Eh I think you could only do, I don’t think.
CB. You would take of in fine pitch wouldn’t you?
JB. Fine pitch, going back now [pause] You take of in flying pitch, you leave it in flying pitch if you could possible get it there. Well you could do once you got on flying. On course stuff, they don’t go so well on course, do they?
CB. So in the cruise you are not going to be in fine pitch are you. You have got fine pitch for take off, so when do you change for cruise and what pitch do you put it in.
JB. [pause] I don’t know, I wouldn’t know that, I’ve forgotten what that sort.
CB. Ok it just comes out of the use of the throttles.
CB. Thanks
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with John Firth
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-07-06
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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01:30:01 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
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AFirthJB160706
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending review
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Description
An account of the resource
John Firth was a flight engineer with 50 Squadron at RAF Skellingthorpe June to August 1944. He was shot down in August 1944 on his 20th operation and became a prisoner of war at Stalag Luft 7.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Poland
England--Lincolnshire
Poland--Tychowo
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
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Hugh Donnelly
50 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
fear
final resting place
flight engineer
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
prisoner of war
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF St Athan
RAF Syerston
RAF Wigsley
sanitation
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
Stirling
the long march
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3362/PCampbellKWP1601.2.jpg
46f4ce48d53bda56bbcf7a7e51feba7b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3362/ACampbellK160518.1.mp3
90a0845fe49fb6c55e3cebd57026cb8d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Campbell, Keith William
Keith William Campbell
Keith W Campbell
Keith Campbell
K W Campbell
K Campbell
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Keith William Campbell (1923 - 2019, 423220 Royal Australian Air Force) and a diary he kept as a prisoner of war.<br /><br /> A further collection about Keith Campbell <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2083">here.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Keith William Campbell and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-04
2016-05-18
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Campbell, KW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DG: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. My name is Donald Gould and I am interviewing Keith Campbell of the Pacific Highway in Sydney. And you just speak from there and that’s fine. What is your name Keith?
KC: Keith Campbell.
DG: And how old are you Keith?
KC: Ninety two years, Don.
DG: Where were you born?
KC: Oh, in the city of Bathurst.
DG: That’s in the country of New South Wales. What, what did you parents do there?
KC: My father was an engineer in the railways.
DG: Right.
KC: Course in those days Bathurst was quite a large depot.
DG: It would have been.
KC: For steam trains.
DG: The railways.
KC: Yes.
DG: Yes. Yes, certainly. And where did you go to school?
KC: After a couple of years in Bathurst my father was transferred to the West Tamworth branch of the New South Wales Government Railways to take charge of the depot there and after, well, being about two at this stage I think aged five or thereabouts, it might have been a bit before I went to kindergarten. Preschool as it’s called now and subsequently went to junior school at the Tamworth School complex and subsequently went to high school where I spent five years and ended up with my leaving, leaving certificate.
DG: And that was in Tamworth.
KC: That was in Tamworth High School.
DG: Yes. Another country town of New South Wales.
KC: Well yes that was [?]
DG: Where were you when the war broke out?
KC: At school.
DG: In Tamworth.
KC: In Tamworth.
DG: And how, how old would you have been then? Around eight, er no about-
KC: Oh war broke out on -
DG: Sixteen. Something.
KC: 3rd of September.
DG: ‘39.
KC: ‘39. I was, what was I? My birthday was on the 18th of September so I would have been about seventeen, sixteen.
DG: Sixteen.
KC: Ahum.
DG: And at, and at that stage what, just as the war broke out and you were still at school did you have any thoughts that you might end up going, going to war? Or were you thinking that it might all be over in a couple of years or what was happening?
KC: I’m sure most of us thought we would be going to the war one way or another.
DG: Right.
KC: My father had been in the Australian Flying Corps during the first war so I immediately said, ‘If I go I’m going in the air force.’
DG: And you, you, you went into the air force because your father had been in the air force.
KC: Well that was one -
DG: And that was one of the -
KC: One of the main incentives and the air force appealed rather than the other services.
DG: Why was that?
KC: Flying.
DG: Oh right. Did you have, did you want to fly? Was it something you wanted to do?
KC: Well, ever since the mid ‘30s when Kingsford Smith was doing his barnstorming tours I had, my father gave me five shillings to do a circuit with Kingsford Smith in the Southern Cross and ever since then I’d been hooked on flying.
DG: And had you, although the war broke out had you or when you were at school had you any thoughts about what you might do? Apart from going to the war of course. Before that happened did you have any thoughts of what you might do when you left school?
KC: Oh. I wanted to be an analytical chemist.
DG: Right. Did you ever follow that up in the future?
KC: I followed that up, had an interview and I was told that if I took the position it was a reserved occupation so I abandoned it.
DG: Oh right. Ok. And how did you, how did you come to join the air force? When you decided you’d join and you went along to one of the recruitment centres I presume and -
KC: Well, I was eighteen in, whatever -
DG: Oh that’s alright. At eighteen you went along -
KC: And then I went. The nearest recruiting centre was at Newcastle.
DG: Right.
KC: So the 31st of December 1941 I was accepted into the reserve of the RAAF and duly received my Reserve badge.
DG: And what did they, what did they do with you then? Where did they, send you somewhere for training or -
KC: No. When you are on the reserve you just had to -
DG: Oh I see. Yeah.
KC: There was such a -
DG: Right.
KC: Oversupply of potential aircrew -
DG: Yes.
KC: That you just had to wait your turn.
DG: Right. Right. And then when you, when you were called up, where, where did you go?
KC: Well during the, about four or five months before I was called up a group of five of us who were also on the reserve in Tamworth and we used to do Morse code and aircraft recognition and similar things to that to prepare us for the possible future.
DG: Right.
KC: And in May I was called up to QITS at Bradfield Park in Sydney.
DG: Oh that, oh that seems to be a very popular spot.
KC: Well that was, all the New South Wales people started there.
DG: Oh did they? Oh I see. Right.
KC: They were put there as AC2s.
DG: And what, what did they do, what did you do there?
KC: You did some basic exercises. Training and indoctrination in to the air force. Discipline, laws and conduct and various assessment interviews to see what you would, to see what they would assess you as. Where you would go.
DG: And what did they assess you for?
KC: Initially they said I was going to be a pilot.
DG: Right. And that, did that eventuate?
KC: No.
DG: Oh right [laughs]. What happened?
KC: I was ready to go to be posted to a training centre but one morning on parade they announced that there was a shortage of observers in the schools in Canada and anyone that volunteered would go within the week.
DG: Right.
KC: Well the temptation for overseas trip was too great so -
DG: Oh right.
KC: I was one of the twenty or thirty that volunteered and we did go within the week or two.
DG: Oh right. So you weren’t at Bradfield for very long?
KC: Only a couple or three months.
DG: Right. And what happened when you got to Canada? Whereabouts, whereabouts did you go in Canada?
KC: Well we could be shipped from Hobart.
DG: Right.
KC: To San Francisco.
DG: Right.
KC: And we called in to Pearl Harbour on the way and saw the devastation.
DG: Oh right.
KC: The Japanese raid had made on the American navy.
DG: Yes.
KC: And then disembarked at San Francisco. Caught the train to Vancouver. Had a wonderful trip across the Rockies.
DG: Yes.
KC: To Edmonton.
DG: Right.
KC: And then we were put in the camp there for further assessment.
DG: And what, and what did they, how did they assess you there?
KC: I was, most days an observer. An observer consisted of navigation and bombing.
DG: Oh right.
KC: And by the time we got to Canada it had been re-categorised as a bomb aimer or a navigator.
DG: Right.
KC: And I was one of the ones categorised as a bomb aimer.
DG: Ok.
KC: And I went to the Bombing and Gunnery School at Lethbridge in Alberta.
DG: Do you know what they, you said they assessed you to be a bomb aimer. What did they, what did they do to judge your abilities or whatever to decide that that sort of thing would suit you?
KC: I think they -
DG: Do you have any idea?
KC: A to N were bomb aimers M to Z were navigators [laughs].
DG: Oh right. So -
KC: I don’t know.
DG: It was, no. No. Ok.
KC: I’m sure they just checked your records.
DG: Right. Yes. Not terribly scientific perhaps.
KC: I don’t think, not at that stage.
DG: And, and when did, have you, can you remember when you finished your training there and went to, to England?
KC: Well, spent about three months at Lethbridge Bombing and Gunnery School and then went to Edmonton to Navigation School and spent, I suppose, another three or four months there.
DG: I should, I should ask you that yes. The training there. I’d skipped over that. The training you, so you did some training in bomb aiming and some in navigation.
KC: Navigation. Yes.
DG: And how did you, what were your, what were your feelings? What? Regardless of what they asked you to do. What would, what did you like the idea of being? A bomb aimer or a navigator?
KC: I just wanted to fly [laughs].
DG: Oh right [laughs] and so how, how did they, they train you in bomb aiming. What did they, how did they do it, did they take you up and show you how to use the sights and all of this sort of thing I assume.
KC: Well, firstly, you had to learn how to use the bomb sight.
DG: Right.
KC: Which was the, the early bomb sight. Not the mark 14 and we went up, about four of us went up in an Anson and dropped nine pound practice bombs on the target and did that for oh however long it took and after about fifty or so bombs I suppose over that period and interspersed, interspersed with that was gunnery as well. We used to fly up in a Fairey Battle and -
DG: Right.
KC: Or something similar.
DG: So you did drop a few bombs.
KC: Oh well nine pound practice bombs.
DG: Oh that’s right. Yes, I missed, yes. Yes, that’s right. And what about the navigation? What sort of, what sort of training did you get with the navigation?
KC: Oh you had to do your star shots. Use of a sextant.
DG: Oh right.
KC: And how to operate the navigation instruments.
DG: Right.
KC: Sorry. Now, I’ve forgotten most of it.
DG: Yes. Yes.
KC: In the -
DG: Sorry.
KC: In the meantime we enjoyed the wonderful hospitality of the Canadian people.
DG: And how did you find that? They looked after you well, did they?
KC: Superbly.
DG: Excellent. And then when, when did you go to the UK?
KC: We -
DG: Any idea of what -
KC: We received our wings in, I think it was the end of May or June 1943.
DG: Right.
KC: We thought we knew everything.
DG: I bet you did.
KC: And after, I think it was two weeks leave, we ended up in Halifax waiting for a ship to go to UK.
DG: And where did they send you when you arrived?
KC: We arrived at Liverpool and after the bright lights and no restrictions in Canada it was a very different country we arrived at. It was blackout.
DG: Oh yeah.
KC: Everything was rationed.
DG: Right.
KC: And it was a country at war.
DG: Totally different.
KC: Totally different.
DG: And where did they, what base or centre?
KC: Well from there we all went to the RAAF centre at Brighton -
DG: Right.
KC: Which was a holding centre for air crew until they found space for them at the training stations.
DG: Right. Were you there very long?
KC: I was there for about two to three weeks I think.
DG: Right. And where did they send you after that?
KC: After that we went to, what was called AFU Advanced Training Unit at Pwllheli in North Wales where we just, we were acclimatised to the conditions in England.
DG: Right.
KC: For crowded skies, fog and -
DG: Ok.
KC: Aircraft everywhere you could see.
DG: Yes.
KC: And we thought we were, we were trained. We very soon found out we, what we didn’t know.
DG: And they gave you more thorough then in er, and were you doing that in bomb aiming or any navigation there?
KC: Well as a, mainly in bomb aiming.
DG: Right.
KC: And some navigation.
DG: And were you there very long?
KC: A couple of months I think.
DG: Right. And what happened after that?
KC: After that we were sent to Operational Training Unit.
DG: Right.
KC: Which was really the start of serious training.
DG: Yes.
KC: We all, I forget how many. it was probably about twenty of each category.
DG: Right.
KC: Pilots, navigators, bomb aimers, gunners and wireless -
DG: Ah.
KC: Operators.
DG: Yeah
KC: Put them all together in a hangar and said, ‘Right. Sort yourselves out as a crew.’
DG: I’ve heard that. And how did you go about finding a crew?
KC: It seemed a very haphazard way of doing things.
DG: Yes.
KC: But it turned out remarkably well. You just talked to people and if they seemed compatible –
DG: Yes.
KC: Said, ‘Well I’m looking for a pilot.’ And he said, ‘Well I’m looking for a bomb aimer. Let’s team up.’
DG: Right.
KC: And then you’d go and talk to someone else who might be a navigator.
DG: And did you did you pick up your whole crew at that stage?
KC: The five crew.
DG: What did that, while you were talking. Right, yeah.
KC: The five crew of a Wellington.
DG: Oh yes, of course. Right ok.
KC: A training station.
DG: Did the Wellington have a flight engineer?
KC: No.
DG: Right. Just had a, what crew did a Wellington have?
KC: Pilot, navigator, bomb aimer, signaller and gunner.
DG: Ah right ok. Were you all Australians?
KC: As it happened we were.
DG: Right.
KC: Lichfield seemed to be an Australian centre.
DG: Oh I see. Yes. Yes.
KC: There were other RAF people there and Canadians and -
DG: And did -
KC: New Zealanders.
DG: And then did you, did you, did you do your further training there at Lichfield with your newly found crew?
KC: Yes, you flew as a crew from then on.
DG: Right.
KC: And learned the responsibilities to each other -
DG: Yes.
KC: You soon learned that you had to be completely compatible and er because each one’s life depended on the other ones.
DG: Yes. Yes. And how long were you at Lichfield?
KC: From memory about three months.
DG: Right. And then did you go to a squadron? [or whatever?]
KC: No.
DG: Or whatever?
KC: We went from there to an advanced, to a conversion unit where we transferred from Wellingtons to the four engine aircraft which we’d be flying on a squadron.
DG: And what, and what plane was that?
KC: That was the Halifax. The Halifax mark ii at that stage we were flying at con unit.
DG: And you -
KC: There we picked up another engineer, another gunner and an engineer. Both were RAF.
DG: Right. And then after that did you go to a squadron?
KC: When we finished our conversion unit and passed out.
DG: Yes.
KC: We went to 466 squadron based at Leconfield.
DG: Where is that? What county.
KC: In Yorkshire.
DG: And did you stay at that, with that squadron all the way through the war? 466.
KC: I stayed with 466 but early June 466 transferred from Leconfield to Driffield. Also in Yorkshire.
DG: And then for the rest of the war? Was it from Driffield?
KC: For the rest of my war it was.
DG: From your, yes. Yes. From your - Ok. And did you only fly the Halifax?
KC: Yes. Driffield, 466 squadron had very recently traded in, for want of a better word, their Wellingtons on to the new mark iii Halifax.
DG: Right.
KC: Which was a superb aircraft. Was -
DG: Did you prefer to the Halifax to the other -
KC: Well you didn’t have a choice.
DG: I know but I mean just, did you, did you have any, did you, you felt, did you enjoy flying in that more than -
KC: Having flown in a -
DG: Halifax.
KC: Halifax it it, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have wanted a better aeroplane.
DG: Oh right. Oh well that, that’s good to fly in something that, that you enjoy doing.
KC: Complete confidence.
DG: A plane that you enjoy.
KC: It performed well. Had, with the new radial engines their performance was outstanding.
DG: What sort of engine did the Halifax have? A radial?
KC: Four radial engines um oh Hercules.
DG: Are they, were they Rolls Royce?
KC: No.
DG: Oh, no. Do you know who made those?
KC: No.
DG: I had, oh well I -
KC: Rolls Royce made Merlins.
DG: Yes. Yes, no, ok. What was the daily life like on, on the base?
KC: Well the -
DG: Daily routines.
KC: Very relaxed. As much as you did what you needed to do. Attended every lecture, parade or things like that. Turned up at the bombing section every morning and compared notes from the people that’d flown previously on raids and generally acquainted yourself with the other crews.
DG: Did you, did you have any sort of roster in so far as did you have, were there times when you’d be on flying duty and then times when you’d have a little bit of leave for a few days or something like that?
KC: Generally after you flew for six weeks and then got a week’s leave.
DG: What did you do on your week’s leave? What sort of activities did you get up to?
KC: The whole of England to explore.
DG: And did you?
KC: As far as possible. Yes.
DG: And you enjoyed that?
KC: Oh very much.
DG: How did you get around?
KC: You had, we were given a rail pass to wherever we wanted to go. So I used to get a rail pass as far north in Scotland as I could which gave me unlimited scope.
DG: You enjoyed Scotland?
KC: Very much.
DG: And when you’ve, after leave, when if you were on flying, six weeks that you were on flying duty what was the sort of routine then?
KC: Well, you’d wake up in the morning and have a look, see whether you were on flying duty and if you were on, on that night you prepared yourself for going to briefing, getting your gear ready and going out to the aircraft.
DG: So, how much, how much of your day was taken up in that preparation from the time that you first started.
KC: Oh.
DG: Getting things to -
KC: Generally the raids were at night so the briefing was afternoon and by the time you got your charts in order and time for dinner and from there you just were taken out to the aircraft by the girls in the transport section and waited until take-off.
DG: Did you have to do any checking out in the aircraft earlier in the day or were you just pretty much just did those final checks when you got out to the aircraft then?
KC: Well, from my point of view there wasn’t much to check.
DG: No. No, we’ve, no, I see. Yeah. Yeah
KG: The pilot used to go out and make sure that everything was oh according to him it was ok.
DG: Yeah. What, how did you, how did you feel? What were your nerves like? What were you, what did you think about when you were going out on a mission?
KC: Oh.
DG: Did you, were you nervous? Were you worried or -
KC: No. No. I don’t think so. You knew what, you knew what you were doing. You knew the odds and, well, I accepted them.
DG: Yeah. And what, now, that was when you were getting ready to go. Did that, did you still feel the same way as during the mission. Did things change or did you just feel pretty much the same all the way through?
KC: I did.
DG: Yes.
KC: Didn’t have time to do myself. By the time I’d done map reading and one of my other jobs was operate the H2S which was a navigation instrument and I had a fairly full time job there.
DG: There was, there was a navigator on the Halifax isn’t there?
KC: Oh yes.
DG: But the bomb aimer operated the H2S did he?
KC: It was up to each individual crew.
DG: Oh right.
KC: The -
DG: I’d understood the H2S was a navigation aid -
KC: It was.
DG: So I presumed the navigator had done it.
KC: Oh it’s a navigation, Gee and H2S -
DG: Yes.
KC: Were navigation. We worked it out between them that I’d done navigation training in Canada.
DG: Right.
KC: So he would operate the Gee and the charts and do all the setting courses and I would operate the H2S.
DG: How many missions did you fly Keith?
KC: Thirty three.
DG: Crikey. So you did your, you did your tour.
KC: Well the tour in those days was flexible.
DG: Oh was it?
KC: Up to, probably up to forty.
DG: Oh I see.
KC: We started off, I arrived on the squadron at, I think it was just after Christmas ‘43 and we spent the next six weeks on the squadron doing training on the Halifax and becoming proficient as a crew.
DG: And did you have any, did you have any memorable experiences from your, from your missions or were they all pretty routine?
KC: No. Well, they were routine in as much as you had, you flew there, changed course to there and somewhere else and changed course on your run up to the target and -
DG: Did you have any interesting situations -
KC: Oh many.
DG: Arise? Could you just tell me about a couple of them? Some of the interesting ones.
KC: Well, going over the coast there was, first there was a belt of searchlights from Denmark to Spain and you had to fly across those.
DG: Right.
KC: And as far as possible avoid the concentrations where you knew there were flak guns and from the time you got over the coast which was the coast of the bombers be very aware that there were potential enemy fighters around.
DG: And did you have, did you, can recall any, any attacks by night fighters on your plane?
KC: Oh yes.
DG: Yes. You get -
KC: Fortunately most of them we, the gunners saw the plane.
DG: Right.
KC: And they gave it, well the gunners tracked the fighter in and then gave the pilot the order to corkscrew port or starboard as the case may be and hopefully discourage the fighter.
DG: And you obviously survived those.
KC: We survived those, yes.
DG: And what about flak? Did you get hit by flak at all?
KC: Every target was infested with flak.
DG: Yes. And not enough to bring you down.
KC: Oh yes. If you got coned over the target you were -
DG: Yeah.
KC: Hopeless.
DG: Well did you, did you come back from all missions ok? Or did you -
KC: From thirty three missions, yes.
DG: Right.
KC: The thirty fourth was a disaster.
DG: You didn’t ever have to bale out or anything exciting like that?
KC: Yes, on our last raid on Stuttgart in July ‘44 we were coming home and another aircraft ran, ran up our rear.
DG: Crikey.
KC: Which upset the whole scheme of things.
DG: And what, and what happened? Obviously the plane came down but what were you aware of. What, what was happening what were you aware of while this was happening?
KC: I was at the front of the Halifax, had just finished dropping the bombs and doing the check on the bomb panel and during the bombing run I used to lean on my parachute and sometimes it would [roll way out of it] the clips on the harness used to, clips on the harness used to connect with the ones on the parachute. On this occasion I was fortunate that the parachute was connected ‘cause I heard an explosion. I heard someone say, ‘Bloody hell.’ The next thing I knew I was about ten thousand feet underneath a parachute in the night skies outside of Stuttgart
DG: So you, you, you were out without really recognising it. You weren’t consciously trying -
KC: No.
DG: To find your way, working out how to get out. You were just out.
KC: I didn’t have a choice. I just went straight through the front.
DG: Right. And how high did you say you were?
KC: Oh about twenty thousand.
DG: Twenty? Oh golly. And it took you a little while to reach the ground.
KC: Well I came to at, I think, at about ten thousand where the oxygen level was sufficient.
DG: Oh yes. Yes.
KC: The force of the, I can only assume the force of the explosion opened my parachute because I have no recollection whatsoever of opening it.
DG: Heaven’s above. And did you, were you very cold? At that altitude you would have been cold. You’d have your flying suit I suppose.
KC: Yes.
DG: But you’d have been pretty
KC: I wasn’t
DG: Pretty chilly.
KC: I wasn’t conscious of being cold.
DG: Right. Yes.
KC: That’s, where I was and what I was doing there.
DG: Yeah, and you landed. Did you injure yourself or were you -
KC: Fortunately, no.
DG: Right.
KC: I landed in a field and rolled over a few times and took my parachute off and found a tree and hid it, hid it under that and assessed my situation.
DG: Did you see anybody else come out of the plane? Did you -
KC: No.
DG: Did you ever find out what happened to the others?
KC: They were all killed.
DG: Were, and, dear oh dear. That was tremendous luck for you.
KC: It was.
DG: Unbelievable. And you didn’t have a reception committee there when you landed.
KC: No. I took off for, at about 3, 2 o’clock in the morning and I looked up and saw in the sky aircraft heading for home [laughs].
DG: Oh golly. Yeah.
KC: Good luck to them.
DG: Yes.
KC: I could see them up there.
DG: Oh golly. What a lucky fellow.
KC: And I spent about three days sort of wandering around Germany with the ultimate aim of trying to get to the Swiss border but in Germany proper it was fairly hopeless.
DG: So you weren’t able to evade being captured.
KC: Well, eventually, I used to hide up of a day and walk at night with the aid of the compass we had.
DG: Right.
KC: And I think it was the third night I was starting out to walk at dusk and a truck came down the road. It was too late to hide.
DG: Yes.
KC: So I just kept on walking and he stopped to give me a lift and I tried to make out I was a French worker but he knew far more French than I did.
DG: Oh dear.
KC: At that stage I was, had very little to eat and wasn’t in particularly good shape.
DG: I was going to ask you, what did you do for food?
KC: Well you had your emergency rations.
DG: Oh right.
KC: Which were very basic but -
DG: Yes.
KC: Very necessary and if you saw a fruit tree you picked some fruit.
DG: Did you get any meat? Did you -
KC: No.
DG: Right. And what was this fellow that picked you up? Who was, who was he? Was he -
KC: He was a farmer.
DG: Oh right. And this, this was in Germany.
KC: In Germany. Yes.
DG: Yes. Yes. Of course. Yes.
KC: Three days walk out on the west side of Stuttgart.
DG: Yeah. And so, yeah, and so of course he had, well what did he do?
KC: He had his little daughter with him.
DG: Right.
KC: And they were going to market and at that stage I still had a few squares of chocolate left from the rations so I gave the little kid some chocolate.
DG: Right.
KC: And when she found out what to do with it she wanted more but I didn’t have any more and when we got past through the nearest village he stopped and went into the local hotel and brought back two bottles of beer and he gave me one of them.
DG: That was a very nice fellow.
KC: He was. And -
[Phone ringing]
KC: Excuse me.
DG: Just pausing the interview for a moment.
[Pause]
DG: We’re continuing again now. So, he bought you a bottle of beer and what did, what did he do with you then?
KC: He took me to the local police station.
DG: Oh right.
KC: And from then on I was a POW.
DG: And how did the police treat you?
KC: Reasonably well.
DG: Yes.
KC: I was taken over then by some army people who took me to the nearest, I think it was a RAF station, and there I met with about eight or nine other air crew who had been picked up. Presumably from the same raid.
DG: Yes.
KC: And from there we were taken to Stuttgart and put on a train to the interrogation centre at Frankfurt.
DG: Right.
KC: That was an experience too of course. The RAF were still raiding Stuttgart and we were on the platform waiting for a train and an air raid siren went and there was a raid and I think there was about four or five German guards looking after us and the civilian population were very, very hostile.
DG: Ah.
KC: The ones that were at the railway station.
DG: Yes.
KC: And the guards turned their bayonets outwards.
DG: Right.
KC: To, we were valuable property.
DG: Yes. Yes.
KC: And we were subsequently taken down to the, one of the cells of the station until the train came in.
DG: Right.
KC: And then we went by train from there to the interrogation centre at Frankfurt.
DG: How long did they interrogate you?
KC: I was there for about a week.
DG: Right. Was it pretty routine sort of questioning?
KC: Fairly routine. Yes
DG: Yes.
KC: Who you are. Yes. Can I have your name, rank and number? What squadron? I can’t answer that. And all these questions I can’t answer. He was a very, well I say, decent German.
DG: Yes.
KC: He’d spent four or five years in England pre-war and he knew, he knew very well we weren’t supposed to answer the questions.
DG: Yes.
KC: And he said well don’t worry about it. Pressed the button. A girl came in. He spoke to her in German. She came back with a file and he said your squadron is 466. You’re stationed at Leconfield. Your CO is so and so. Your flight commanders are, whoever they were and your local village is Beverley. The barmaid’s number in the Beverley Arms is so and so.
DG: Right.
KC: And there’s nothing you can really tell us.
DG: Yeah. Yes I suppose you couldn’t.
KC: I think a more, a more senior person would have been, had a much more severe interrogation.
DG: Yes. Yes. And you went to a POW camp after that?
KC: Yes.
DG: And how long, from, can you remember how long you were in the POW camp till the end of the war?
KC: We started off in the interrogation centre to go to the POW camp at a place called Bankauer in Poland. Near, quite near Breslau. The Red Cross were marvellous to us. They, what clothing we didn’t have they made up for us. They gave us food parcels.
DG: Right.
KC: Looked after us.
DG: And these were obviously getting through to you.
KC: Well, in those days -
DG: Of course.
KC: They were yeah. And they gave us a parcel between two of us for the train trip.
DG: Right.
KC: And subsequently after about three or four days travelling on a very slow train and we arrived at the POW camp.
DG: And how, how long were you there until the war ended?
KC: I arrived in the camp probably about, shot down on the 25th of July and by the time I got to the camp it would be about the middle of August.
DG: What year was that?
KC: ‘44 ’45.
DG: ’45.
KC: Yeah. No ’44.
DG: 44 Yeah ’44.
KC: 1944.
DG: July ‘44.
KC: Yeah.
DG: So you weren’t there for very long.
KC: I was there till after Christmas.
DG: Right.
KC: And the Russians were making their advance and we were right in the path of it.
DG: Oh right.
KC: So the German Command informed us we were going to be marched across Germany in front of the Russians.
DG: Right.
KC: Because we were apparently valuable personnel.
DG: When people were, there were some people who did have very bad nerves and they would perhaps refuse to fly or something and they’d perhaps be put out for LMF.
KC: Yes.
DG: How did you guys feel about that?
KC: It was a disgusting thing. A man had flown twenty missions and he lost his nerve and he was denigrated.
DG: So you had sympathy for them.
KC: More than sympathy.
DG: Yes. Yes.
KC: It was, I suppose using that as an example to the others, don’t do it.
DG: Yes.
KC: But you were stripped of rank and given the very minor duties to perform.
DG: And when the, how did you, how did you come to be released from the POW camp. What happened?
KC: Well we had to march across Germany from our camp at Breslau across to oh I forget the name of the town -
DG: You were freed by the Russians were you?
KC: No.
DG: I thought they were. Sorry I’m -
KC: We were kept ahead of the Russians.
DG: Oh, I see. Right, yeah. Ok.
KC: ‘Cause they wanted us. The Germans wanted us
DG: Oh yes, sorry. Yes.
KC: And subsequently after a march through the coldest winter in twenty years -
DG: Yeah.
KC: We arrived, I think it was about two or three weeks on the march and then they put us on a train and after spending three nights on a train with seventy people in a cattle truck with no amenities we would have rather been marching.
DG: Yes. Yes.
KC: We eventually arrived at another POW camp at Luckenwalde which was about fifty miles south of Berlin.
DG: That was in Germany now.
KC: In, yeah, Germany proper.
DG: Yes. Yes.
KC: Where we spent the next that would have been probably, March, April.
DG: Right.
KC: And we stayed there and the Russians eventually overran the camp and after considerable problems we were repatriated to, taken by American trucks to the American lines and flown back to England.
DG: And what happened to you after that? In England. When did you, how long were you there before you came back to Australia?
KC: Well there we were taken, taken to Brighton to the RAAF centre. Given medicals and re-equipped with our uniforms and given back the personal belongings that had been kept for us. Or -
DG: Oh right.
KC: Kept to send to, either if we came back, if not they were taken, sent to the relatives.
DG: How was your health when you arrived?
KC: I was reasonably good health.
DG: So you -
KC: Very, lost a lot of weight.
DG: Yes.
KC: And fortunately I was one of the ones that were healthy.
DG: Right. And when did you come back to Australia? Can you -
KC: We spent, we were given a months’ leave.
DG: Right.
KC: With a years’ pay.
DG: Oh right.
KC: And an open rail pass.
DG: Oh good.
KC: I went to stay with various people that I’d known in the UK.
DG: Yes.
KC: And eventually went back to Brighton and was transferred to Liverpool.
DG: Right.
KC: And caught the Orion back to Australia.
DG: And how, when you got back to Australia how, how were you treated? How was Bomber Command or veterans from Bomber Command treated in Australia at that time?
KC: We were taken off the ship, taken to Bradfield Park, checked in and all the administration things done and sent off on leave.
DG: Right.
KC: No tickertape parades. No walk down George Street. Just, off you go.
DG: Were they, they, were they trying to sort of keep it quiet or was it just, that just the way it was?
KC: Just the way it was I suppose.
DG: Right. Yeah.
KC: Being Australia they mainly concentrated on the Japanese war.
DG: Yes at that. Yes.
KC: In many cases Bomber Command weren’t highly regarded.
DG: I gather. Yeah, I gather they weren’t terribly well and did you, were there, were you was you conscious of any ill feeling or -
KC: Oh no.
DG: Was it just not, not terribly, just perhaps not quite as well regarded as much as others perhaps.
KC: Well why you weren’t here fighting for Australia?
DG: Oh I see. Oh. Oh golly.
KC: We didn’t have a choice where we were going.
DG: No, of course you didn’t. Oh, crikey.
KC: Actually, at one stage, I think it was ’44, a lot of, well some air crew received white feathers from people in Australia saying why are you enjoying yourself over in England, lots of leave and occasional exhilarating trips over Germany and that appeared in the Australian papers.
DG: I’ve never heard that. That would have been terribly hurtful to you. What you went through to, yes.
KC: Well the flying conditions over Germany compared to New Guinea and the Isles had very little comparison.
DG: Oh yeah. Totally different.
KC: The living conditions were infinitely worse.
DG: Yes.
KC: ‘Cause we did have reasonably good accommodation.
DG: Yes. Well, how, how long before you were discharged?
KC: Oh I think I got out just before Christmas ’45.
DG: And what did you, what did you do then about, what did you think about doing as your job after that?
KC: Well the first thing I thought of I’ve got all this deferred pay and gratuity. Let’s spend it.
DG: Right.
KC: So the three of us went up to Coolangatta and had a, spent our next two weeks in riotous living as far as riotous living could be -
DG: Yeah. Yeah.
KC: In the village of Coolangatta.
DG: Yeah. Yeah.
KC: It was a very pleasant seaside resort in those days.
DG: And what, and what happened when you got back to reality?
KC: Well, I went back to work.
DG: And what were you doing?
KC: Pre-war I had joined the Department of Main Roads as a cadet draughtsman and I came back and started off with them again. They transferred, transferred me from Tamworth to Sydney. To one of the offices in Sydney.
DG: Oh I see. Yeah.
KC: And I started off civilian life there.
DG: As a draughtsman?
KC: Ahum.
DG: And did you continue that?
KC: No. I had problems with my eyesight.
DG: Oh.
KC: And another position came up and I decided to go there.
DG: And what sort of work was that? In the same department?
KC: No. No, I resigned from there and -
DG: Right.
KC: We had been staying at a private hotel for about seventy to eighty people and my wife and I were offered a chance of buying into the freehold in [Romega?].
DG: Oh right.
KC: I always said if I got out of Germany I would never be hungry again.
DG: Yes.
KC: So the idea of a career in the food industry appealed.
DG: Where, when did you meet your wife?
KC: On our -
DG: Was this before the war?
KC: No. No.
DG: It was after the war. Yeah.
KC: Time in Coolangatta.
DG: Oh I see.
KC: She had been in the women’s air force there as a radio operator.
DG: Right.
KC: And she and a few friends had the same idea of -
DG: Oh right.
KC: Spending deferred pay in Coolangatta.
DG: So you obviously got on well there.
KC: Three years later we were married.
DG: And where were you were living? Oh sorry, in the hotel. Yes.
KC: We were in the accommodation.
DG: No. Of course. Where was that?
KC: At Neutral Bay.
DG: Oh right. And then how long were you there?
KC: Ten years.
DG: Right. And what did you do after that?
KC: Well, at that time we had our family. A boy and a girl and um we went out to, oh what’s the name? My wife’s sister had a, they were living at, oh I can’t remember the suburb.
DG: Oh it doesn’t matter.
KC: Around about the [?]
DG: Yeah.
KC: And we decided to go out there to be with them –
DG: Right.
KC: For a while to - We were having medical problems with one of our children and we needed her family to help my wife to cope with things.
DG: Yes.
KC: And I had been offered a job as a manager of a catering division of a company so I accepted that and spent the rest of my career in catering.
DG: Oh right. Good. Do you, do you keep in touch with any of your old comrades from your –
KC: Well –
DG: From your time in Bomber Command?
KC: In half an hour one is going to be here.
DG: Oh right. Oh good.
KC: That’s who I was on the phone to.
DG: Oh I see. Right. So yeah. Oh that’s very good.
KC: Every June, every first weekend in June the Bomber Command Commemoration Day Foundation hold a weekend in June. A formal commemoration of the Australian Bomber Command Memorial in the sculpture gardens at the memorial and that’s officially done by the Australian War Memorial.
DG: And that is in Canberra.
KC: That’s in Canberra.
DG: Yes.
KC: And the previous Saturday night we have what we call a meet and greet at the ANZAC hall of the war memorial where G George is and we’ve got about two or three hundred people there.
DG: That’s good.
KC: Veterans and friends.
DG: Yes.
KC: And family.
DG: Yes.
KC: And after the Sunday ceremony we have a lunch at the, one of the hotels.
DG: Right.
KC: That’s a very important occasion each year.
DG: Yes. I’m sure you look forward to that to see your old friends.
KC: Ahum.
DG: Yes.
KC: We’re in the middle of organising it now.
DG: Oh good. Good. Well thank you, Keith. I do appreciate the time you’ve taken to talk to me this afternoon.
KC: Well that’s -
DG: And I know there will be many other people in the future that will, will get a lot of pleasure out of being able to hear what you had to say.
KC: There’s a lot more to it but -
DG: I’m sure there is.
KC: You could waffle on indefinitely.
DG: Yes. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
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ACampbellK160518
PCampbellKW1601
Title
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Interview with Keith Campbell. One
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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00:56:45 audio recording
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Pending review
Creator
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Donald Gould
Date
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2016-05-18
Description
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Keith Campbell grew up in New South Wales and joined the Royal Australian Air Force when he was old enough. He flew 35 operations as a bomb aimer with 466 Squadron from RAF Leconfield and RAF Driffield before being shot down. He became a prisoner of war and took part in the long march.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
United States
Contributor
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Julie Williams
466 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
crewing up
Dulag Luft
Gee
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
lack of moral fibre
memorial
mid-air collision
prisoner of war
RAF Driffield
RAF Leconfield
RAF Lichfield
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3363/PCampbellKWP1601.1.jpg
46f4ce48d53bda56bbcf7a7e51feba7b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3363/ACampbellKW160604.2.mp3
4ec1a402c3e766446124357837dccd8a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Campbell, Keith William
Keith William Campbell
Keith W Campbell
Keith Campbell
K W Campbell
K Campbell
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Keith William Campbell (1923 - 2019, 423220 Royal Australian Air Force) and a diary he kept as a prisoner of war.<br /><br /> A further collection about Keith Campbell <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2083">here.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Keith William Campbell and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-04
2016-05-18
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Campbell, KW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive is with Keith Campbell, a 466 Squadron Halifax bomb aimer during World War Two. The interview is taking place at the War Memorial’s theatre in Canberra. We’re here at the War Memorial for a Bomber Command Commemoration that will take place tomorrow. It is the 4th of June 2016. My name’s Adam Purcell. Keith, we’ll start from the beginning if you don’t mind. Can you tell me something of your early life and what you were doing before the war?
KC: Before the war I went to school [laughs] Silly question. I finished my leaving certificate at school. And in 1939 the war had just broken out and like all youngsters of sixteen I couldn’t get in the Air Force soon enough. I wanted to get in the Air Force because my father had been in the Australian Flying Corps in the First War. So obviously I had to follow his footsteps. And when I became seventeen [pause while coughing] Excuse me. Sorry about that. At seventeen I applied to join the Air Force Reserve, which I did and for the next, oh six or eight months myself and [coughing] excuse me, got a sore throat. Six or eight others learned aircraft recognition, basic trigonometry which was all done at school anyway. And Morse. Somehow or other, we had to get up to ten words a minute in Morse. Initially it seemed an impossible task. The lines seemed to be a collection of dots and dashes. Every sign you saw you reduced it to Morse. However, in due course we obtained proficiency in Morse and the other things like the aircraft recognition. In May 1942 I was duly called up for service at Number 2 ITS at Bradfield Park, Sydney. ITS was an Initial Training School where all raw recruits came to be sorted out and hopefully made into something resembling an Air Force type. There’s also [pause] also the categorisation as to what you were going to be. Pilot, navigator, bomb aimer or whatever. I was selected to be a pilot and was looking forward to going to initial, Elementary Training School. And one morning in the end of, I think it was July or August [coughing] Oh dear. I’m sorry about that.
AP: That’s alright. Have another drink if you like.
KC: On parade the CO came out and said, ‘There’s a shortage of observers in the Canadian schools. Anyone that likes to volunteer will be off to Canada within a week.’ The temptation was too great so I volunteered and we were off to Canada in a couple of weeks. Went down to Hobart where we went aboard the French liner Ile de France which had been converted to a troop ship and sailed across the Pacific to New Zealand where we picked up some more Air Force people. And then our next stop was at Pearl Harbour where we stopped for a day. We weren’t allowed off the ship but we could see the devastation that the Japanese raid had caused to the American fleet. Things had recovered to a great extent but we could imagine just how great the attack was. There was one battleship upside down and it wasn’t a happy sight. Our next call was at San Francisco where [coughing] Oh dear.
[pause]
Where we caught the train from ‘Frisco to Vancouver. As it happened the train we took up was on Thanksgiving Day and on the buffet in the train we were entertained to a turkey dinner. Thanksgiving dinner. Which was a major occasion after the food in the, on the ship which was adequate but quite basic. Arrived in Vancouver and had three or four days to have a look around that beautiful city. Then off to Edmonton, over the Rockies. Caught the train and about four of us got on the back carriage where there was an observation platform. I think we spent most of the thirty six hours going to Edmonton just watching the magnificence of the Canadian Rockies.
AP: I’m just going to stop there for a minute.
[pause]
AP: Now. We were in San Francisco, I think. Catching a train.
KC: Going over the Rockies was a magnificent experience. Bright moonlight night and to see all that snow which we’d never, most of us had never seen before. It was a wonderful introduction to Canada. We arrived at the RCAF station at Edmonton where we spent another week being sorted out and see just where we were going. Who was going to be a navigator and who was going to be a bomb aimer? And subsequently I was categorised as a bomb aimer. And there were others, along with myself caught a train to Lethbridge in southern Alberta where the RCAF training station was situated. Lethbridge was quite a small Canadian town. Very pleasant. And we spent about five or six months there, I think it was, flying Ansons, and Battles, and whatever, bomb aiming and doing a bit of gunnery to fit us for the trials of squadron life. Having spent, finished the course at Lethbridge we were posted back. Back to Edmonton where the navigation school was. We spent another couple of months there flying over the vast expanse of Canadian prairies. If you got lost you just went down and the nearest railway station you read the sign and you knew where you were. We had a wonderful experience at Edmonton. It was a big Canadian city and the Canadian people were wonderful to us. The hospitality was outstanding and we made a lot of friends in Edmonton. After the, finishing our course we went to a Wings Parade. Apparently, this particular Wings Parade was quite an occasion publicity wise. An American colonel had been brought in to present our wings and we all duly lined up at the, in the sports centre. And after much ceremony we were all, each called out and given an Observer’s wing which we subsequently sewed on our uniform. Or if you had a girlfriend, she got the task. The next port of call was to be Halifax in eastern Canada. We had two weeks to get there and what we did in those two weeks was entirely up to ourselves. We had a leave pass, a pocketful of money, comparatively and myself and two or three others decided to go to New York. And we had a ball there. In Australian uniform it was impossible to buy a drink. If you went to a night club you were entertained by the top brass and it was a quite weary [laughs] After a week in New York we thought we’d better start going to Halifax. And on the way, we went to Niagara Falls and had the opportunity to see the Falls and go on the ride on the, oh, Lady of the Lake or whatever the steamer was called. And subsequently arrived at Halifax. Halifax was a very major port for Atlantic convoys and we had to wait there until a ship came that could take us to England. Spent about two weeks in Halifax and the people were very good to us but it was very much a service town. After a couple of weeks we were put on the French liner the Louis Pasteur which had been converted from a luxury liner to a troop ship and set sail for England. Having got out of the harbour I think they just pointed the ship at England, full speed ahead and off we went. Supposedly, and I’m sure it was, too fast for the submarines and we did a very rapid trip and arrived at Liverpool where we got off the ship and onto a train. It was evening. The contrast was dramatic. After the bright lights and plenty of everything in Canada here we were in England. It was dark, wet, foggy and crowded. And dark. Blackout was on. And we subsequently boarded a train and after many hours arrived at Brighton on the south coast where the RAAF had their accommodation for aircrew. Spent a couple of weeks in [pause] at Brighton waiting for a posting to the Advanced Flying Unit which gave us an opportunity to explore the countryside that’s around Brighton which was a very, very pleasant spot. And we availed ourselves of the opportunities to enjoy ourselves. And after a couple of weeks we ended up in a place called Pwhelli in North Wales where we did an advanced training course. Another pleasant spot. Quite a small town. And I think we were flying Ansons there. In due course we finished our training there and went to an OTU at Lichfield which was more, mainly an Australian OTU. They had a satellite station at Church Broughton which was quite nearby. And our course was posted to Church Broughton where we were to do our Operational Training Unit on Wellingtons. As a Wellington crew was five people and we were all bomb aimers a course of bomb aimers, roughly the equivalent number of pilots, navigators, wireless operators and gunners were put in this huge hangar and told go to it. Crew yourselves up. And fortunately, I happened to know one person there so we became a two, two part crew and within half an hour of talking to the other people we subsequently formed a crew. Seems a very haphazard way of selecting a crew for operations but oddly enough it worked out very well. Very few crews proved to be incompatible. We were very fortunate that we were all Australians and we had similar interests so we didn’t have problems. Spent some months at OTU and in our spare time we used to go to, the nearest city was Derby and patronized the local hostelries there. In due course we graduated and posted to the Conversion Unit where we converted from twin-engined Wellingtons to four-engined Halifax Mark 2s. And we spent about six weeks there and did a lot of flying around England which we found a very great difference to flying in Canada. There was fog. There was hundreds of other aircraft. There were, all over the countryside were aerodromes. And we just had to make sure we dodged the aircraft, found where we were and got back to base. Subsequently we did duly finish our training there and were posted to Number 466 Australian Squadron at Leconfield. Well, while we were at Conversion Unit the Halifax, being a four engine bomber, required an engineer and another gunner. The one, the engineer was a twenty four year old English chap and the gunner was a thirty three year old chap from Birmingham. He was the real grandfather of the crew. However, we all got on very well and went to Leconfield where we were allocated accommodation. We were very fortunate, Leconfield being a peacetime squadron and all the amenities that went with it. After living in Nissen huts for a considerable time it was pleasant to be in regular barracks. New Year in, at that stage it was New Year 1944 and we were the new ones on the squadron. We were flying, at that stage, the new Halifax Mark 3 with the radial motors and the rear designed tail plan which had eliminated a lot of the problems which the Mark 2 Halifax had. And after flying in the Mark 3s they were a magnificent aircraft from all points of view. From the pilot and the rest of the crew was very, well, not exactly comfortable but a lot, a lot less crowded than the previous ones we had.
AP: What was your position in the aircraft like? What did it look like? Can you, can you describe the bomb aimers area?
KC: Coming in the entrance to the aircraft near the tail you walked through the fuselage. There was a rest area. Bunks on both sides and two or three stairs up to the pilot’s deck where the pilot sat and there was a second dickie seat which we folded up and allowed us to go down four or five steps where the navigator sat, you know. Compartment. The, rather the wireless operator sat in a compartment just under the pilot. Next to him was the navigator and the bomb aimer was next to him. All the bombsights and everything else, the bomb panel was right at the front and that was my domain. The Mark 2 Halifaxes had a front turret which had been considered superfluous and in place of that there was a plastic front which gave a much better vision and also a Vickers guns which was really only a pop gun. On the squadron the navigational aids were the Gee and we also had H2S and between the navigator and myself he worked, had the Gee and did the navigation and I did the H2S. Which was a very compatible way of doing things. After a lot of local flying and getting used to operational conditions we finally did our first operation. I think it was the end of February, on a, on the first of what were called the French targets in France. This one happened to be at Trappes which was the rail junction outside of Paris. Subsequent operations consisted of quite a lot of trips like that to disable the communications such as bridges, rail junctions, road junctions and any other ways that would impede the ability of the German armies to get supplies both before and after D-Day. My first trip to Germany was to Stuttgart in southern Germany and we went, duly went to briefing and navigators and bomb aimers went off to a separate briefing to do their navigation. Draw up their charts and get things like that underway. And operational meal. Bacon and eggs. Then up with the rest of the crew and waited for the, drew our parachutes and waited for the trucks to take us out to the aircraft. Going to Germany for the first time was quite an adventure. We managed to keep on track and on time and in due course the target was a quarter of an hour away and I went down to the bombsight and set it up with the height, speed and did the bomb drop panel and got ready to direct the pilot. PFF had laid flares which we saw and I directed the aircraft through the bombsight to the flares. And a little to the left, a little to the right and we finally got on course, dropped our bombs and spent the next ten seconds, the longest ten seconds you’ll ever spend flying straight and level and waiting for the camera. As soon as that happened set course for home. And we had a fighter come in to say hello to us. Fortunately, the rear gunner saw him and we went off in a corkscrew and that discouraged him. He had easier ones to find. And we subsequently set course for England and the engineer said that we’d been using too much petrol. So we had to decide just what we were going to do. And when we got over the channel we decided it was much safer to land at one of the coastal aerodromes. So, we landed at, I think it was Ford, where we spent the night. Between us I think we had seven shillings so we went off for one round of drinks at the local pub. We went there and found everyone drinking cider at sixpence a pint. So that was wonderful. We had two or three drinks of cider decided to go home and we found out cider was a very powerful drink. However, we finally made it. We got, went back to the squadron and started on our trips together. I think there were two or three, without my logbook I don’t know who or what, just where we went but we did some more French targets. I think we did a trip to Happy Valley. Another one up to Kiel. And by that time it was the, in March and we were briefed for Nuremberg. And this was our first really major target. Well, Stuttgart was but Nuremberg was further. Further east. And it was, the briefing there was it was cloudy but the target would be clear and we were flying straight to the target from our crossing the coast which was most unusual and a lot of the navigators queried it because we were being too close to the German fighter ‘dromes. However, that was it and on. We pressed on and shortly over France we had a fighter attack and escaped from it but we found we were losing petrol at a very rapid rate. So, we had a conference and decided to turn back which we did and subsequently landed back at base with not a lot of petrol. Waited four or five hours until the rest of the aircraft came back and found what a disaster the night had been. The cloud cover that we were promised hadn’t eventuated. It was a bright moonlight night and all the fighters were up waiting. Flak was just aimed at us and subsequently it was a loss. I think it was ninety seven aircraft over Germany. Plus, the ones that were damaged and managed to stagger home. Fortunately, we did survive that one and I think the next one was to Happy Valley and more French trips and then where was it? Without my log book I don’t remember. But went to a Berlin trip but got to within ten or fifteen miles to Berlin and we were hit by a fighter and got badly damaged. So, we decided to, we decided to go home and, on the way back we lost an engine from fighter attack and we staggered back to base and lived to tell another day. That was another disaster raid. I think we lost seventy one aircraft on that one. That was [pause] but between there and June I did two or three trips a week. And with our six week, we got leave every six weeks which we enjoyed very much. And eventually came the big day. We didn’t, at the time we didn’t know it was D-Day but we were programmed to bomb a target fairly close inside the French coast. Coming back there was an armada of ships on the Channel. You could have jumped out of the aircraft in a parachute and not got your feet wet. There were battleships, row boats, destroyers, paddle steamers. Anything that could float was on its way to the beaches of Normandy. It was a [pause] we did fly over the same place again a few days later when the beach head had been established but it was a very major effort. After that we just continued on our tour. We had about twenty five trips up by then and looking forward to finishing. And on the 25th of July, 24th of July we were booked for a return trip to Stuttgart. So, all the usual briefings and instructions. Had a very uneventful trip into Stuttgart and did our bombing run successfully and kept our ten seconds to get the camera and set course for home. After about ten minutes we were happily flying on, anticipating a, an uneventful trip home when suddenly there was an explosion. At the time I thought it was a flak shell. Subsequently I found out that an aircraft had run into the back of us and the aircraft just exploded. I was in the front, in the bomb aimers position still. Doing the bombing check and as it happened, I had my parachute on. I always used to lean on my parachute but this night I was leaning on it and had inadvertently clicked on with the wriggling around. The next thing I knew I was flying, descending at about ten thousand feet with a parachute above me. And I have no recollection whatsoever of opening the parachute. I didn’t have the handle so somehow the explosion must have opened it and I landed in a field about twenty miles west of Stuttgart [pause] And took off my parachute harness and hid it under a tree with a parachute and took stock of things. I had all my usual escape kit and similar things and waited around to see if I could hear any, any of the other crew. But there was no sign of them at all. Seeing the way I got out I doubt very much if there would be any survivors. As it happened there weren’t [pause] It was about 3 o’clock in the morning. I could hear the other, the rest of the aircraft flying home and to a nice warm bed and a bacon and egg meal. Here was I stuck in a wheat field in, in the west of Stuttgart. Far from home. I spent the night in a forest and the next morning I checked up where I was on the map, or as near as I could. And the only nearest frontier was the Swiss border which was seventy or eighty mile away. So, I made for that. So, I spent the day in the forest and when the evening came I started walking and went through a village and there was a village pump. So I filled up my water bag and had a wash which was very acceptable and had a few Horlicks tablets from my escape kit. I walked. Walked all night and at dawn I found another wood and subsequently spent the day there having a sleep and working out what I was going to do next. I was fortunate in having the new flying boots that had been issued which were detachable leggings on a shoe which was much easier to walk with than the old flying boot. So, I removed all badges of rank and brevet and set off again. I think I covered about 20K that day. Not a long way but I wasn’t hurrying. Trying to keep out of everyone’s way. Even, even though it was night there was, there was still a few people around and the villages which I tried to walk around but sometimes it was much easier to walk through them. The next day I spent hiding up and set off again at nightfall and passed through a village. And a mile past the village a truck came along and passed me and stopped. And he came back and said, obviously he was going to give me a ride. Asked what I was doing there. Anyway, I tried to make out that I was, I was a French worker but he could speak far better French than I could. At that stage I was feeling well down on very little to eat and water bag was empty so I wasn’t too unhappy to be taken into custody. I had three or four bits of chocolate over from the, that I hadn’t eaten and in the truck was his, another man and his little daughter. So I gave this kid a couple of bits of, pieces of chocolate and he was most impressed. When we came through the village he stopped, went to the local pub and bought us all a bottle of beer. So, it was a very good investment with two or three blocks of chocolate. Subsequently I was handed over to the local police and they called in the army and I was officially a POW.
AP: Alright. That’s, we got up to that stage. Can we maybe backtrack a little bit? You were talking about an escape kit. You were talking about an escape kit that you had.
KC: Yes.
AP: Obviously when you found yourself ejected from the aeroplane it was with you. Whereabouts did you actually have it?
KC: Oh you just carried it in your battle dress pocket.
AP: Oh ok. So, it was only a little thing.
KC: Little.
AP: Yeah.
KC: Well, a box about five by seven inches and about an inch deep and, which fitted inside your battle dress.
AP: And what sort of things were in it?
KC: Horlicks tablets [pause] very basic food stuffs. Some chocolate, not to enjoy but to [laughs] to survive on. And [pause] I’ve forgotten now. It’s so long ago.
AP: Maps and things like that as well.
KC: Oh, maps and a compass.
AP: Yeah. Did you have one of those special compasses that were hidden in a button or hidden somewhere or — ?
KC: Had a button compass.
AP: Yeah.
KC: I also had a little hand compass which I always carried.
AP: Very cool. You were saying as well you, about fifteen minutes before the target you’d go down into where the bombsight was and set it up.
KC: Set it up.
AP: And all that sort of thing. What did you do for the rest of the flight?
KC: I worked the H2S machine.
AP: Where was that physically?
KC: That was next to the navigator.
AP: Ah.
KC: And as I had not a lot to do it was a lot more practical that I did the H2S and he did the navigation. Getting all the fixes. It worked out very well.
AP: What did you, what did you think? Can you remember much about the H2S and what it looked like? And —
KC: All the H2S was, it was a machine, a dial about eight or nine inches diameter and it gave a profile of what was underneath. It had a long range and a short range and once you learned how to read it, it was a very desirable navigation tool. Especially on coastal areas, of course. It had a very sharp delineation between the sea and the land. Flying over land such as southern Germany it could pick up any lakes. It also picked up cities and towns as a darker green on the lighter green of the screen. Once you learned how to interpret it, it was a very useful tool.
AP: You also mentioned a couple, or there was at least three times there you mentioned being attacked by fighters. What does a corkscrew feel like for a bomb aimer?
KC: A corkscrew, in a four engine bomber you’re thinking of a Spitfire. It just goes high, right or left as the case might be, nose straight down, and round and round and pull out and go the other way and hope you’ve lost him. And if you haven’t lost him keep on doing it.
AP: Keep doing it [laughs] It would be quite, quite strenuous for the pilot I imagine.
KC: Oh, it was. The [pause] where they was over the target area if you, if you saw the fighter and went into a corkscrew he’d go and find someone who hadn’t, or hopefully hadn’t seen him.
AP: They were looking for, for easier prey. How did you cope with the stress of flying on operations? What did you do to relax?
KC: It was stressful. I think I coped very well.
AP: What sort of things did you do to, to handle that, or to deal with the pressure? If anything.
KC: Went to the local. And the local dances. The theatre. The pictures. And any entertainment that was on at the squadron when we weren’t flying.
AP: Alright. You’ve mentioned pubs and the local a few times. What, for Leconfield let’s just say, or any other pub that you can remember what did the pub look like and what was in there? What sort of things went on?
KC: Well, the nearest town was Beverley which was a market town and it was quite a big town. We got to know a few of the locals and we used to go to the, the Beverley Arms. Found ourselves a corner and some compatible people. Had a few drinks. Sang a few squadron songs and enjoyed ourselves. At that stage most of us had bikes so it was quite an adventure getting from the local back to the squadron. Fortunately, we made it.
AP: Very good.
KC: A few spills here and there.
AP: Very nice. Were there any superstitions or hoodoos amongst your crew or amongst your squadron that you knew about?
KC: We had a thing about our little, one of us had a little fluffy rabbit. About six or eight inches high and every operation we took the rabbit. And every operation we marked it on the, on the rabbit. And our ambition was to cover the rabbit. We didn’t, [pause] Stuttgart was our thirty third operation so we were looking forward to finishing but unfortunately, we didn’t.
AP: What, how many operations did you need to do for a tour at that period?
KC: Well normally it was thirty.
AP: Yeah.
KC: But with the French targets being shorter and supposedly easier they increased it to up to forty. The first two or three French targets were quite easy. But as soon as the Luftwaffe found out what we were doing they moved their fighter squadrons in.
AP: They did. Yes. I think at one point I think a French target counted as one third of a trip.
KC: Initially it did.
AP: Yeah.
KC: But subsequently they scrubbed it .
AP: There was a 467 Squadron man who said you can’t go for one third of a burton. That’s the way he put it. What sort of things happened in the, in the mess at the airfield?
KC: We were fed. And again had a few drinks and played cards or sat around and talked and had a sing song. There was no shortage of suitable songs [pause] I’m just wondering where Fiona was.
AP: Behind you.
KC: Oh, she’s there is she.
AP: She’s been there for about forty minutes, I think. She’s crept in nice and quietly. Alright. Can we, can we talk a bit about your prisoner of war experience? What — where were you taken after you were, were captured?
KC: Well from the army camp where we were assembled with about another ten people from a Lancaster crew, or two Lancasters that had been shot down in the area and there were about ten survivors. And we were taken from there to Stuttgart and subsequently to be taken to the interrogation centre at Frankfurt. We got to Stuttgart under heavy army guard and put on the platform waiting for a train. It was about midnight and the RAF came over again in force. Sirens went and people started running for shelters, saw us there and [laughs] we were, we were not popular. But the German army protected us, fortunately, and we were taken down to the cells until the train came which was Stuttgart to Frankfurt where the interrogation centre was at Oberursel. Spent the first three or four days there in solitary and then was taken to an interrogation room where the German officer started off with cigarettes and, ‘How are you?’ And all the welcoming. ‘Welcome to the Third Reich,’ He could speak perfect English. He’d apparently spent four or five years in the early thirties in England. And he said, ‘What’s your name?’ So, I gave it to him. ‘Your rank?’ So I gave it to him. ‘Your number?’ I gave it to him. ‘What aircraft were you flying?’ ‘You know I can’t answer that.’ Five or six more questions and he said, ‘Well I know you’re going to say no but we know it anyway.’ So he pressed the button and a girl came in. He spoke some German to her. She came back with a file. A file on 466 Squadron. And he told us the CO’s name, the flight commander’s name, most of the other people. The group captain. What the, how the aircraft, or how many aircraft there were. The fact that we’d transferred from Wellington’s to Halifaxes in 1943. And he knew the name of the barmaid at the local pub. There was nothing I could tell him. So, he gave me permission to have a shave and a shower which was very acceptable. Then back to solitary again and after that three or four days there were enough POWs to make a contingent to go to a POW camp which we subsequently caught a train and three or four, about three days later we arrived at a place called Bankau which was near Breslau in Poland. A very uncomfortable train trip but we finally made it. We were taken in to the camp and searched, interrogated again and duly given our quarters. All the people in the camp welcomed us, wanting us, wanting to know the latest situation on, on the second front. And being new people gave us a welcome dinner. The camp at that stage was very very basic. It was just huts on a dirt floor and bunks. There was a new camp being built just next door and we were looking forward to moving into that which we did after about four or five weeks. They finished the, enough of the camp to move us in which was a very pleasant change and there were rooms rather than huts. A big, big, a big area converted into about eight rooms with a toilet block at the end which was a much more pleasant life than going on, getting in the huts which were very crowded. The Red Cross there were marvellous to us. Before we left the interrogation centre, they fitted us out with warm clothing, boots and any other supplies that we needed. At the camp we were getting, at that stage we were getting a Red Cross parcel every fortnight which was the difference between existing and surviving. The Red Cross did a fantastic job in Germany for the POW’s. And [pause] and when were we there? That was about the end of August, I think. September. October. We used to fill in our time there with games which the Red Cross supplied. And they supplied us with a good library. And we walked around the compound for our exercise. We had to discuss trying to escape but at that stage of the war we were advised not to because they thought it would be over by Christmas. How wrong they were. In due course there was a Russian advance to the westward and the Germans wanted to keep us so we were told we were going to move camp and in January ’45 we were turfed out of our comfortable quarters into the coldest winter that, in Germany for about forty years. Four or five feet of snow on the ground. Cold. About five or six hundred people heading eastwards. We were supposedly to be marching but it soon very, very soon developed into a straggle. Everyone had found they were carrying far too much kit so the non-essentials were abandoned and whatever you could carry was what you had. We marched all day and stopped for a cup of lukewarm soup about mid-day and came to a suitable village at night and found a farm and were billeted in the farm buildings and hopefully had something to eat, which was problematical. We did have a Red Cross parcel each before we started which we tried to ration. We didn’t know how long we’d be marching so we tried to keep as much as possible of that intact. That went on for about two or three weeks. Marching by day and hopefully finding a barn or somewhere covered at night. Fortunately, on most occasions we slept in the farmers barn and threw out his livestock. Food was a very basic problem then and with, with the German army rations and what we had from the Red Cross parcels we managed to survive. And after how long? Three weeks? We were told we were going to be put on a train to our next destination. We were put on a train, about sixty five people to a four wheel cattle truck and there was room to stand up. You had to take it in turns to lie down. We spent three days in that. It was not a happy trip. After about a day we decided we would have been far better, far happier, marching. We eventually arrived at a place called Luckenwalde, about fifty miles south of Berlin and were taken to some barracks there which had originally been barracks for the German army in the Franco-Prussian war. They were in a very decrepit condition. It was a very large camp. All, a lot of POWs had been transferred there and many other, other nationalities. Thousands of Russian prisoners. And conditions were very basic. We used to sit there with nothing, nothing to do. Watched the Americans come over Berlin in the daytime and at night Mosquitoes came over Berlin at night. Subsequently the Russian army overran the camp and we were under the control of the Russians. Initially they were very good. The army people. A couple of thousand Russian prisoners were given a rifle, they said, ‘Come with us which they did. They were very keen to get their own back on the Germans for the appalling treatment that the Russians had had. We stayed in the camp there and the Russian army moved on and the administration took over. And it was a very different story. We were under Russian control and we were so close to the American lines and couldn’t do anything about it. Subsequently an American war correspondent and about six trucks came along and, to take the American survivors out but they wouldn’t, a few got away but the Russians wouldn’t let us go. But the, we were told that if we could possibly get out the trucks would be at a certain position until about 4 o’clock that afternoon. Another four or five of us managed to escape from the Russians, literally, through a hole in the wire and we found our way to the American trucks where two or three trucks had already filled. And at about 4 o’clock in the afternoon they said, ‘Well we can’t wait any further,’ and off we went. And after about an hour or so crossing an emergency bridge over the Elbe to the American army camp which was the front lines. They gave us accommodation and apologised profusely because the ice cream machine hadn’t caught up. From there we made our way to [pause] well the Americans gave us any kit we needed and fed us well and we went to an aerodrome where we were subsequently flown back to England.
AP: And that was the end of it.
KC: So, taken back to Brighton. Re-kitted. Met all our, well a lot of the people that we’d known before but also had been in Germany and given a leave pass for two weeks, a year’s pay, said, ‘Come back when you’re ready.’ So, I was a survivor fortunately. I subsequently found out years later that what had happened was another aircraft, also from our squadron had collided with us and it must have been a collision in our tail because the, our rear gunner, mid-upper gunner and the engineer were never found. The front of the aircraft, the bodies were found. And all the other aircraft were lost. So that was it. And I endured a mid-air collision and I happened to be the lucky one.
AP: How did you find readjusting to civilian life after going through all of that?
KC: Oh, coming back to Australia we were, came through The Heads which was a magnificent sight. Taken off the ship, put on a bus, taken to Bradfield Park. Not interrogated but put on record again and given a leave pass and, ‘Come back in two weeks.’ No ticker tape parade. No marching through, through George Street. Back home and out which suited us fine. It was quite a readjustment getting back to civilian life after the discipline of service life but I went back to my old job and started off life again.
AP: My final question for you. What is Bomber Command’s legacy and how do you want to see it remembered?
KC: Seventy one years later. Well sixty eight years later in Canberra it was decided to build a Bomber Command Memorial which was subsequently unveiled. I think in 2007 or eight, something like that. And it was the first Bomber Command Memorial, as far as we know, that was ever made. And it still stands in the sculpture garden of the Australian War Memorial. We were going to have our ceremony there tomorrow but unfortunately due to the inclement weather we have to have our ceremony inside. But subsequent to that, in England there was a movement to have a Bomber Command Memorial constructed and it was taken up officially and very enthusiastically supported and in 2009 I was one of the fortunate official members of the Air Force, RAAF delegation that went to the opening of the Air Force Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park in London. That is a magnificent Memorial. It took seventy one years but it was worth it. We were one of the fortunate thirty people in the official delegation that were at the dedication.
AP: Any final words? Any last thoughts for the, for the tape?
KC: Well here we are today on what was the 4th of July.
AP: 4th of June. 4th of June.
KC: June rather.
AP: Yeah.
KC: For our annual Bomber Command Commemoration Day Foundation. Remembrance of Bomber Command. It’s a very major event.
AP: It certainly is.
KC: The War Memorial have done a lot of the organisation for us. Made the, made the ANZAC Hall available and the Hall of Remembrance for our ceremony tomorrow and we’re quite looking forward to that.
AP: Here’s to that. Well, thank you very much Keith. It’s been an absolute pleasure hearing your story properly for the first time.
KC: Sorry I was so —
AP: I very much enjoyed it.
KC: The coughing
AP: No. That’s gone, that’s gone really well I think. It’s good.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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ACampbellKW160604
PCampbellKW1601
Title
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Interview with Keith Campbell. Two
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:11:55 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2016-06-04
Description
An account of the resource
Keith Campbell grew up in New South Wales and joined the Royal Australian Air Force when he was old enough. He flew 35 operations as a bomb aimer with 466 Squadron from RAF Leconfield and RAF Driffield when, on their thirty first operation another aircraft from their squadron collided with them. All other crew were killed but Keith was thrown from the aircraft and parachuted in to a wheat field. He began to walk towards the Swiss border but was caught and became a poisoner of war.He was first sent to Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau but then was ordered on to the Long March and ended up at Stalag 3A at Luckenwalde from where he escaped the Russians and joined up with the Americans who sent him home.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Yorkshire
Poland--Opole (Voivodeship)
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1942-05
1943
1944-01
Contributor
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Julie Williams
466 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
coping mechanism
crewing up
Gee
H2S
Halifax
memorial
mid-air collision
military living conditions
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Church Broughton
RAF Driffield
RAF Leconfield
Red Cross
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
superstition
the long march
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/292/3447/PMacdonaldK1703.1.pdf
c95d205c4198d82d8852fe9584466cac
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/292/3447/AMacdonaldK170222.1.mp3
c455719386ed5595e6ad4b299a1473ab
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Macdonald, Ken
Ken Macdonald
K Macdonald
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Ken Macdonald (b. 1924, 432233 Royal Australian Air Force) and a photograph.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ken Macdonald and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Macdonald, K
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Jean McCartney. The interviewee is Ken MacDonald. The interview is taking place at Mr MacDonald’s home in Banora Point, New South Wales on the 22nd of February 2017. Ken, let’s just start right back in June 1924. You were born in Dee Why.
KM: Dee Why. That’s right. Yes.
JM: Yes. And does that mean that you and your family lived around Dee Why and stayed around Dee Why?
KM: No.
JM: Or —
KM: My parents came out from Scotland six weeks before.
JM: Right.
KM: With five children and me on the way.
JM: Gosh. Yes.
KM: And I was born in Dee Why. Yes. Dad was a farmer in, just out of Glasgow and that’s his farm up there.
JM: Oh my goodness. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. Which is — I think it was knocked down during the war.
JM: Right. Which part? Which side of Glasgow was it?
KM: Dalmuir.
JM: Dalmuir. Which is —
KM: Yeah. Don’t ask me, you know.
JM: Oh ok. Right. Right.
KM: You’ve got the river. The river and then Dalmuir would be out somewhere.
JM: Yes. Yes.
KM: In farmland in those days. Yes. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So you never had the opportunity to go to back and see where it was?
KM: I went back to Scotland when we, during the war I went there. I never got to Dalmuir. I met my uncle. You know.
JM: Uncle.
KM: Relatives. Relatives who lived around the place.
JM: Yeah.
KM: They were farmer’s as well. Yes.
JM: Right. Ok. Well that’s all very interesting. So then did your family live at Dee Why? Or —
KM: They had a, yes we lived at Dee Why for about five or six years. They had a corner store. Something different for mum and dad, you know. It was a twenty four seven job, you know. Every day of the week and so forth. They worked very hard. From there we went to Cessnock.
JM: Right.
KM: They bought into a fish and chip shop. They’d never done that either.
JM: That’s even harder work. Yes.
KM: Yeah. In Cessnock. And the MacDonald’s Fish Shop was in the town up until about ten years ago.
JM: Gosh.
KM: It passed down through the family and then one of my nephew’s had it and he retired from it.
JM: Gosh.
KM: From there we went to Victoria Street, Potts Point. One side of the road was Woolloomooloo. The other side was Pott, was Potts Point. They had a private hotel.
JM: Right.
KM: And do you want the others? Where we went after that?
JM: Well, where, where so how long were you in —? So you would have finished your, so if it was five years you would not have actually not have started your school in Dee Why, I assume.
KM: No. I started my school at Cessnock.
JM: In Cessnock.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So did you — how long were your parents running the shop?
KM: We were there ‘til about 1934.
JM: 1934. So —
KM: Yeah. Then I went —
JM: So —
KM: To Manley for a year.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Manley. And then Darlinghurst Public.
JM: Public, yeah.
KM: Then in 1937 I went to Sydney Boy’s High.
JM: Boy’s High.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok. Right. Yes. So at Sydney Boy’s High did you do both your intermediate and your leaving?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Right. So you finished your leaving.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: I didn’t excel but still I passed them.
JM: Well, that’s, that’s —
KM: I left school in 19 — when did the Japanese come into the war? ‘42 it would be.
JM: Well presumably —
KM: ‘37 ’38 ‘40
JM: Yeah. So you would have, you would have left —
KM: No. Forty —
JM: ’42 you would, probably you would have finished up school in ‘42.
KM: ’41.
JM: ’41.
KM: I finished school. Yes.
JM: Yeah.
KM: ’41. And then I turned eighteen on the 16th of June.
JM: June in ’42.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And that’s when you enlisted I presume.
KM: Yeah. I did my medical on the 29th of June.
JM: Right. Ok.
KM: But I wasn’t called up until the 5th of December.
JM: Right. Ok.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And —
KM: Bradfield Park.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Then to Maryborough.
JM: Yeah. Well, so you did you ITS at Bradfield Park.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Right. Ok. And —
KM: I was in 35 course at Maryborough but I had to repeat the last month.
JM: Right. Ok. I’ll come back to that. I will just backtrack for a second. When you were doing — in your youth did you help mum and dad in the chip shop? The fish and chip shop at Cessnock?.
KM: No.
JM: Or you were too young.
KM: I was too young. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: I was too young. Yeah.
JM: Because you were under ten.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Up to ten so yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: I guess that would be. Then what about the private hotel. Did you do any? Help out at all?
KM: Yeah. I learned how to iron and different things like that. Yes.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: Helped as much as I could.
JM: Could. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right.
KM: And then —
JM: Because they had, so they would have had that all the time that you were at school then.
KM: Yeah.
JM: I would assume.
KM: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Ok. So and what —
KM: And after school I went to, I ended up going, in the last few months I was at teacher’s college.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: That was just, just to make —
JM: Between. Just between that that six months between you finished your leaving certificate and before you were old enough to enlist.
KM: Well I had, I had a job with a real estate man who was going to train me. He didn’t have any children and I think he was going to train me to sort of take over but he was killed in a car accident so that put the kibosh on that.
JM: Right.
KM: So then I went to teacher’s college.
JM: Right.
KM: Just to make sure if I was lucky enough to come home from the war I had a job to come back to.
JM: Back to.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So what sort of teacher training were you doing? Were you doing primary school?
KM: Primary school.
JM: Yeah. Right.
KM: At Sydney’s Teaching College.
JM: College. Right.
KM: I did six months there.
JM: Right. Ok.
KM: Then I went in to the Air Force. Yeah.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Did you do anything else? Did you play a lot of sport? Did you join the Air Training Corps?
KM: Oh yeah. I used to sport. I was never a champion but I got involved in everything.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Lots of team sports or —
KM: Yeah. Rugby. Rugby mainly.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Cricket. Yes. Anything that was going.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Did you ever join the Air Training Corps or anything like that?
KM: Yes. I was in the Air Training Corps.
JM: When did you join that?
KM: Oh, I was [pause] I was still at school when I joined that. That would be about 1939 or something. Yeah.
JM: Right.
KM: I was in the Air Training Corps.
JM: Right. And did you stay in the ATC through.
KM: ‘Til I joined up.
JM: ‘Til you joined up?
KM: Practically, yeah.
JM: Which means that you basically just transferred over.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Once you were eighteen I presume. So did you do any flying or anything or just theory when you were in the —?
KM: It was just theory. I learned how to send Morse, so when I went into the air force I had a background in Morse code.
JM: Morse code. Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok so —
KM: So when I was at ITS, you know, they said, ‘Have you got any desires what you want to be?’ And I said, ‘Wireless, air gunner.’
JM: Yeah.
KM: Because I had that basic training.
JM: Training. Yeah.
KM: I didn’t think I’d be good enough to be a pilot. Yeah.
JM: Right. Ok. So you did you medical. And so then you say you did, you went to Maryborough and then did you follow straight on from Maryborough with a gunnery course at Evans Head?
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Ok. And then from there you went to, you had some leave before —
KM: I think I had a week’s leave and went to Melbourne. We left on a Saturday and arrived there on a Sunday. Straight on to a ship and sailed out on a Monday.
JM: Out of Melbourne.
KM: Out of Melbourne. Yes. On the Nieuw Amsterdam. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So that was in December.
KM: No. That was the 26th, I think, of September.
JM: September.
KM: Yeah. When we sailed.
JM: Ok. Yeah. Yeah. Ok. Yeah. Ok. And so that was September ’43 wasn’t it?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Just pause while a little gentleman flies overhead. Mr Virgin or Mr Jetstar.
KM: Yeah. Or Tiger.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Or could be Air Asia.
JM: Yeah. Could be anyone. That’s right.
KM: We went to New Zealand from there. Then to San Francisco. We had leave in San Francisco for a few days and then went by train which was great. Got the train across to New York where we had porters on board and everything. They were great troop trains. Better than we had here in Australia. And then from New York we went —
JM: Just — you went straight through but I presume —
KM: We used to stop off at various places.
JM: Places yeah —
KM: And that. Yeah. Give you a bit of a march and — yeah.
JM: Yeah. You didn’t have a chance to look around as such.
KM: No.
JM: But if you did a bit of a march.
KM: Yeah.
JM: I guess you were out in the streets a little bit to take in the different —
KM: A bit of exercise for us.
JM: Yeah.
KM: To keep us going. Yeah.
JM: Going.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And did you form any impressions? Were you able to see different contrasts between the various places that you stopped off or you were just not really looking around that much at that stage.
KM; No. No.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. Because five days was a long time to be cooped up on the train.
KM: That’s right. Yes.
JM: Because you had probably — what? Several bunks in one area.
KM: Well we had little, we had —
JM: Cubical type things I suppose.
KM: Yes. It was like a [pause] it was just like a passenger train really.
JM: Train. Yes.
KM: And had the bunks. Tiered bunks. You know —
JM: Yeah.
KM: Which were the, they weren’t made especially for the troops. They were just —
JM: Yeah. Normal.
KM: What the passengers used to use and had the porters there to look after you. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And so you get to New York.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And you get a few days leave in New York.
KM: Yes. Yes. Yes. And we had about a week in New York.
JM: What sort of things did you get up to in New York?
KM: Oh. Normal things.
JM: Normal things. Yeah.
KM: You’re not — you couldn’t drink in a lot of places because you had to be twenty one.
JM: Yeah.
KM: That was the first thing we struck when we got off the ship in San Francisco. The first place we went to was a bar. He wasn’t going to serve us at first because he said, ‘How old are you?’ And we all — we told him.
JM: Honest.
KM: He said, ‘You’ve got to be twenty one.’ We said, ‘Oh we’ve all just turned twenty one.’ Of course we were in uniform and everything like that, you know. We were sergeants. You’d think that they would have given it to us which they did. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And people were very good. Very kind. Americans were beautiful people I thought.
JM: Yeah. So, so you had a bit of a wander around New York. Saw some — as well as going to a few bars.
KM: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
JM: And saw some of the main sights there.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: The Empire State Building. Rockefeller Centre. That’s what I can remember now.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: Had a ride in a Hansom cab. Cab around, you know, horse drawn. Around Central Park with a young lady I met. And it was nice. Yeah. Course you fall in love quick quite easily You fall out twice as quick [laughs]
JM: Yeah.
KM: That’s where I first saw Danny Kaye. Do you remember Danny Kaye the actor?
JM: I do indeed remember Danny Kaye.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yes.
KM: I went to the theatre and he was on. There was a film on as well which I can’t remember what that it was. But he was on as a just doing a few acts and I thought he was tremendous. As a matter of fact I’ve sat through the film again to see him. Yes. He was a great comedian. Got lots of people. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: And from then we went across to England on the Queen Elizabeth where there was about eighteen thousand troops I think on there as well.
JM: Yes.
KM: No, no escort or anything like that. Just flat out. The way to go.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And I must tell you that there was one of our, one of my mates Mick Jordan and another chap called Douglas McCartney — they ran the Crown and Anchor.
JM: Yes.
KM: Which is a gambling thing.
JM: Yes.
KM: Yeah. And took my money.
JM: Did they now?
KM: Yes. Yes [laughs]
JM: I see.
KM: You can’t win at that.
JM: You can’t win at that.
KM: No.
JM: No. Now, I don’t know whether it was this trip or not with the QE2 but I haven’t got the dates with me unfortunately. But one, one of the QE2 voyages they had to deviate via Greenland because they were being pursued by a —
KM: No. It wasn’t us.
JM: It wasn’t you.
KM: No.
JM: Right. Ok. So you went in to Scotland.
KM: Yes. And from there on to a troop train and down to Brighton.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And so you were in Brighton for your —
KM: At the Grand or, Grand or Metropole hotels.
JM: Hotels yeah. Yeah.
KM: Yes. And we were there for two or three weeks I suppose. Then we went to Whitley Bay for the commando course. Gee, you’re stretching my memory.
JM: Yeah. That’s alright. So then from that commando course —
KM: I must tell you while we were at the Grand there there was a chap. There was, around the corner from the Grand Hotel there was a bar that used to, you had a dance there as well. It was like, you know, a bit like a nightclub. And one of the boys who I didn’t know but he, when he was coming back one night he was half full. And there was a keg outside the, outside the place which was full and he rolled it back around to the hotel and we all carried it up to about the fifth floor and proceeded to drink it [laughs]
JM: So you actually got it up to the fifth floor.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Well that’s interesting because one of the other chaps I’ve talked to said they tried to do something similar and they’d covered it with a coat etcetera but they got, while they were covering it, while they were carrying it one of them slipped or something slightly and they lost their grip on it so the coat slipped and suddenly revealed that it was a keg and so they were sprung and they were told to — they didn’t get into trouble per se but they just got told to put it back down again and that was it.
KM: That might have been the end of war.
JM: Was it?
KM: ‘Cause I did hear that this same chap.
JM: Yeah.
KM: He tried it later on.
JM: Later on.
KM: Yeah. After the end of the war and he was caught. But the police let him off.
JM: Off.
KM: Because of the fact it was the end of the war.
JM: The war.
KM: Yes. But this keg we got it up. Whether it might have been the fourth floor or the fifth floor but I know it was up high enough. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And it required a bit of effort to get it up there.
KM: Yeah. And it was terrible beer as well. It was. The beer was shocking over there when we first arrived. The first, the first drink we had we walked in to the pub and I think we all had about one mouthful and that was it. We left the rest and walked out and said we’re going to have a very sober time here in England. But it’s surprising how your tastes change. Yeah. [laughs]
JM: Tastes change.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So roughly how long was the commando training? Roughly.
KM: I think it might have been a couple of weeks.
JM: And where were you off to after that?
KM: We went on leave then.
JM: Where did you go for your leave? Do you —
KM: To Edinburgh. Yeah. For a few days. I’m a bit lost after that [pause] and then I went to, I was posted to Milham after that. I don’t think Dougie went there did he?
JM: No.
KM: No. That’s, that’s when we sort of broke up. Milham was a place on the west coast of [pause] west coast of Cumberland. In Cumberland. Not that far from Blackpool. But it was cold and wet and it was a bugger of a place. It really was.
JM: Was.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And so was that some —
KM: That was —
JM: It wouldn’t have been an OTU it would have been a —
KM: No. It wasn’t an OTU.
JM: It was a —
KM: It was an AFU more or less. Yes.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Advanced Flying School.
JM: That’s right. So what were you flying there?
KM: Avro Ansons.
JM: Right. OK.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So would that have been your first sort of full flying experience?
KM: No. We did a fair bit of flying at Maryborough.
JM: Maryborough.
KM: Yes.
JM: Oh yes that’s right. But they were —
KM: They were Wacketts.
JM: Wacketts. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah so that would have been —
KM: And at the air gunnery school they were Fairey Battles.
JM: Yes. Yes.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So — but the Avros are slightly different to both of those.
KM: That’s right they were two engine kites.
JM: Kites. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And fully enclosed.
KM: That’s right yeah.
JM: Yeah. So —
KM: That’s where that [pause] you know the chap that appears in the other side there Stan Jacobs.
JM: Yeah.
KM: He’s on the right hand side.
JM: Yeah.
KM: He was in a plane. They crashed into a mountain. They weren’t killed, you know. He broke a leg and so he was off for a little while.
JM: Right. Right.
KM: Then unfortunately later on he was on a Halifax still training and they iced up over Oxford and crashed and they were all killed. Yeah.
JM: Gosh.
KM: He was a lovely man. Yeah.
JM: Yes. And so roughly how long were you at Milham?
KM: I think about five or six weeks.
JM: Yeah. And so where —
KM: I didn’t shine there.
JM: You didn’t shine there.
KM: No. I got am [pause] it’s in my logbook saying my discipline was poor.
JM: Oh?
KM: Because I had a couple of run-ins with some of the, you know the —
JM: Officers.
KM: Well not officers. No. The drill sergeant.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: And officers. Different people like that.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
KM: Objected to being told what to do.
JM: I see. Right.
KM: The thing, you know, it was just one of those things there. Nothing serious.
JM: No.
KM: No.
JM: Just the usual Australian.
KM: Well that’s all it was. Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Vernacular batmanship.
KM: Yeah.
JM: That’s right. So they didn’t formally discipline you or anything I presume.
KM: No.
JM: No. Just a word about calm it down MacDonald.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But it was reported.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah. And there was, I’ll tell you about one occasion that happened at Milham.
JM: Yeah.
KM: I was in the bar this night having a drink with another chap and he’d had quite a few drinks and then we were going back to our hut and another Australian and he wanted to go to the tut and I said, ‘Well, we’re almost there. Or go behind that hut.’ He said, ‘I’ve got a better idea.’ There was a ladder outside one of the huts. The workmen had been doing something. So he climbed up the ladder. He got to the top there and there was a bit of a chimney coming out because every hut used to have a coke burner inside or a coal burner inside there and he pee’d down the chimney. And all the blokes [laughs] were sitting down inside and all of a sudden there was steam and you know you could hear the yells. Of course we went for our lives, you know [laughs] He managed to get down and we got into our hut and the next thing the door burst open and they said, ‘Has anybody just come in here?’ ‘No. Of course not.’ And the other boys said, ‘No.’ And they said, ‘Well why have you two got, these two got their great coats on?’ I said, ‘Well because we want to go. We were just about to go to the toilet.’ If they’d have caught us they would have killed us. As I said before that was my first occasion of being close to death [laughs] At the time there we thought it was a great joke.
JM: Joke. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: I presume you didn’t have any of those sort of hijinks when you were at Whitley Bay?
KM: No. No.
JM: No. That was —
KM: I wouldn’t tell you if your father was involved.
JM: That’s maybe why you should tell me but anyway, ok, so from Milham?
KM: To Finningley.
JM: Yeah.
KM: That was OTU.
JM: OTU.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And whereabouts is Finningley?
KM: Out of Doncaster.
JM: Oh ok. Down. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Down south right.
KM: There I crewed up.
IJM: I was going to say you would have probably crewed up there. Yeah.
KM: Yes. With three Canadians.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And two Englishmen at the time. That made six of us.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Then they, from there we —
JM: What were you flying at —?
KM: Wellingtons.
JM: Wellingtons. Yeah.
KM: They were doing, they were building a new runway there. Or improving the runway so we went to a satellite ‘drome called Worksop.
JM: Right.
KM: And we were on Wellingtons there.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah. That, well, you know that skipper was going very well except one time he tried to land the plane thirty feet up in the air and we just dropped like a stone. Luckily we had the undercarriage down but it pushed all the undercarriage back up. He had a screened pilot with him who immediately pushed the throttles forward and we took off again. We had to fly around for quite a while. They had the ambulances and the fire brigade and God knows what there because they thought we’d have to belly land.
JM: Land yeah.
KM: But fortunately they were able to, we were able to hand winch them down.
JM: Hand winch them down.
KM: That went down. Yeah. It didn’t go against the skipper. It was just one of those things, you know.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. He wasn’t as close to the ground as he thought he was.
JM: Thought he was. Yeah. Right. So that was a bit of a —
KM: It was another one of those things.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. And I might just pause for a minute because of that noise outside.
[voices outside. recording paused]
JM: Ok. That group of people have passed by now. So we won’t have the voices just drifting in and that.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: So ok so was that the only sort of a bit of a hairy moment for you?
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: in the flying at OTU.
KM: We did a lot of flying there. And night flying.
JM: Flying.
KM: Day flying. Yes. Yeah.
JM: So what was your pilot? Was your pilot one of the Canadians?
KM: Yeah. Canadian. The pilot was a Canadian.
JM: Yeah.
KM: The navigator was Canadian and the bomb aimer was Canadian.
JM: Right.
KM: The mid-upper gunner was English and the rear gunner was English.
JM: Right. Ok. Ok. So you finished your OTU and did all fair number of hours doing your day and night flying all around there. And —
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And then —
KM: And then we went to [pause] it was a Heavy Conversion Unit.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Just have to get my logbook and see.
JM: Yes, certainly. We’ll just pause. [pause] Have you got a summary at the back there of your [pause] sometimes they put, they put a little summary at the back of the various bases or something.
KM: Yeah. No, I’ve just got the name of the aircraft.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Right.
KM: I know it was 1667 Heavy Conversion Unit.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Gee.
JM: That’s alright.
KM: I should know.
JM: Yeah. That’s alright. We’ll — it may well come back to you shortly. We’ll continue on and we’ll, as I say, see how — if it comes back that’s good.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Otherwise it’s not a problem. It’s not a problem.
KM: Here’s Lindsey.
JM: Lindsey coming in is he?
KM: I think he’s bringing his logbook. You want to scan it or something don’t you?
JM: Yeah but not, not at the moment.
KM: No.
JM: I want to finish chatting to you first.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe he didn’t realise. So we’ll pause while Lindsey comes in.
[recording paused]
JM: And so we’re resuming after a brief interruption. Lindsey Hibbard, whom I have interviewed a previous day happens to live just a couple of doors away from Ken and he just popped in to see us for a moment. So Lindsey’s now gone. Returned to his home. So we’re now resuming and we were covering Heavy Conversion. You were doing Heavy Conversion on Halifaxes.
KM: Halifaxes. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And that would have what? A few weeks of flying you think. And then, any particular, do you remember any particular incidents?
KM: No. There was no particular incidents there. No.
JM: No.
KM: No.
JM: Ok. And after you finished your Heavy Conversion is that when you were posted to 12 Squadron.
KM: No. From there we went to —
JM: Oh you had to do a, a Lancaster, yeah.
KM: Lanc Finishing School. Yes.
JM: And where did you do, where did you do your —
KM: At Hemswell.
JM: Hemswell. Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok. And —
KM: About a fortnight we were there.
JM: About a fortnight there.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. And from there we went to [pause ] that’s where we picked, we picked up the —
JM: Engineer.
KM: At the Heavy Conversion Unit that’s where we picked up our engineer.
JM: Engineer. Yeah.
KM: He was a, he was a Welshman.
JM: He was a Welshman was he?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok.
KM: Yeah. So we were a variety of nations of crew.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: I was the only Australian.
JM: Yes.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yes. Indeed. As was the case with quite a few crews.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So, so then it was off to Wickenby to 12 Squadron.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: You’re getting —
KM: Before that we’d lost our rear gunner. I’m sorry, mid-upper gunner was — he went missing.
JM: Did he?
KM: Yeah. I think that he might have — it was too much for him.
JM: Too much.
KM: Yes. Yeah.
JM: So —
KM: Whether he went — we just don’t know.
JM: No.
KM: He never came back to us.
JM: Came back.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok. So who came in and replaced him?
KM: Oh another English bloke.
JM: Another English bloke. Right. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok. And was that during the Heavy Conversion or the Lancaster Finishing?
KM: The Heavy Conversion.
JM: Conversion. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Okey dokes. And so nothing else. You would have had a little bit of leave and that between these courses.
KM: I had leave. Yes.
JM: What sort of things did you do?
KM: I went up to — I never, I very rarely went to London because I thought it was too big and, you know, very impersonal. Used to go to Nottingham where there was ten females to every man. So [laughs] so it was a good place to go to. Yes. You were never lonely.
JM: You were never lonely.
KM: Never lonely. Yeah.
JM: No. That’s right. You had a wide choice.
KM: That’s right. Yes. Yeah.
JM: Yes.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And did the whole crew go when you were on leave or did you go your separate ways generally.
KM: Well. Yes. Mainly. Mainly I went on my own because the others, you know, they used to go home or something like that.
JM: Yeah. Well, presumably the Englishmen.
KM: Yeah.
JM: May have been a bit harder for the Welshman to go home but certainly.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Probably the English chaps went home. The Canadians probably stuck together then I suppose.
KM: Yeah. Well there were two officers among the Canadians and then the skipper he became an officer as well. So —
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So did you feel that created a bit of —?
KM: No. No. No.
JM: No. Right.
KM: The skipper was great. He was, he was —
JM: What was his name?
KM: Johnny Murray.
JM: Right.
KM: John Grimler Murray.
JM: And —
KM: When we were on the squadron you know when we weren’t flying we used to — you see you talk about pubs a lot.
JM: That’s alright.
KM: It’s probably one of the things but we would ride our bikes down to the local pub there and he’d come up with us and play darts and you know, other things and then drive back home again. A bit hairy coming back. Especially during the snowy weather when the roads were very icy and everything. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Any tumbles?
KM: You tumbled on occasion. Yes. And then when we, when we got back to the squadron there we were very friendly with the service police or military police whichever you want to call them and we’d call in their headquarters and they used to be able to purloin bacon and eggs and different things like that so we’d have a little bit of a feed with them. Yeah.
JM: That’s good.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Good to have these cordial relationships.
KM: That’s right. Yes. Yeah.
JM: Yes. That’s right. So any other particular incident? Well, that stand out at this stage or you really, this is when the hard work starts. When the op starts.
KM: That’s when the hard work starts when we got to the squadron. Yeah.
JM: The squadron. Yeah. And what sort of — where were you going and what sort of things were you doing?
KM: What raids were we on?
JM: Yeah. What raids were you on?
KM: The first two we did Essen. Essen. Cologne. Cologne.
JM: Right.
KM: Two nights and two days.
JM: Days.
KM: It was a little bit of shock to the system to start off with. But the, you know especially when you’re on the tail of the target. And on the way to the target as well. If you’re off course at all well you could run into problems there.
JM: And any difficult — any real difficulties I mean?
KM: Not in those four. No.
JM: Not in those four.
KM: No. We got shot up on one occasion. We had to — we had no [pause] no brakes, no flaps or anything like that. We had to land at one of the emergency ‘dromes which they had.
JM: Right. No hydraulics in other words.
KM: No. That’s right.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And they’re about two miles long the runways. With an overshoot, you know, of about a half a mile. When we landed we took the whole length. Just rolled to the end. We were lucky. Yeah.
JM: But was it a belly landing or —?
KM: No.
JM: No. You were —
KM: Got on the, manually wound the —
JM: That’s right.
KM: The undercarriage down.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And then the blokes. They were great there. Manston I think it was. The chaps there. The mechanics worked all night and got us back flying the next day.
JM: Right. Gosh.
And we got back to our ‘drome. Yeah.
JM: And what [pause] which raid was that raid during that you got that flak? You’re not sure.
KM: I’m not certain.
JM: Yeah. That’s ok.
KM: I’d be guessing.
JM: No.
KM: Doesn’t make a great deal of difference.
JM: No. That’s right. So that’s, they were the first few raids.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And then what? What — where did you go next?
KM: We went to Nuremberg. Munich. Bochum. Didn’t get to Berlin. Nuremberg was a very dicey one.
JM: Yeah.
KM: We lost quite a few planes there. Then towards the end we went to a place called Royan in France which was still an enclave that hadn’t been captured by the French or the allies, you know. And we bombed it but apparently, we found out since then, I only found out recently that we should never have bombed it. It was an agreement between an American officer and, you know some of the French and there was a bit of — they’d been drinking and there was a misinterpretation and there was a hell of a lot of civilians in the town which we — I don’t think they came out if too well. Yeah. We should never have bombed it. Yeah.
JM: Bombed it. But you were not to know.
KM: Oh we didn’t know. We were just told. Every target we went to it was ostensibly a military target. It was either oil wells or different things. Factories. But never civilian targets. Actually civilians would be killed because everybody is not that accurate with their bombing. Yeah. So we were never, we were never told to bomb civilian targets.
JM: That’s right.
KM: Even though people thought that we did but we didn’t. Yeah. And then on the 14th of June — 14th of January.
JM: 14th of January.
KM: Yeah.
JM: ‘45.
KM: Yeah. We were on our way to Merseburg. It was 11 o’clock at night and a German fighter got us. It was —
JM: How far out were you? Were you right over Germany?
KM: Yes. We were well and truly into Germany.
JM: Germany.
KM: We still had our bombs on board.
JM: Right.
KM: Hit us with cannons and so forth. Set us on fire and we took evasive action and actually got the fire out. Then we dropped our bombs. We jettisoned our bombs there. And the fighter came in again and hit us again and set us on fire again.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Skipper said we had to bale out and were waiting to bale out. We were on fire at the back. Couldn’t get to the gunners. I tried to get to them but, you know it was all fire. Couldn’t get through. The front was jammed a bit. The front escape was jammed a bit. Finally got it open and then we blew up.
JM: You still had fuel on board I suppose.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: None of us went out through that. We were just all blown out.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And the skipper, engineer and myself were the only ones that came out of it. The others were all — well the gunners had both been wounded.
JM: Wounded.
KM: And the others were killed in the explosion.
JM: Explosion.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And so you had your chutes on at this stage?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So you —
KM: It was the first time I had done up my harness. I never used to do up a parachute harness you know. I’ve never had, never put a parachute on. But I soon put it on that night.
JM: Yes. Yes I can imagine.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So —
KM: And so we landed in the snow. It was a beautiful feeling. I went out — I was unconscious. I came to in the air. It was a beautiful feeling falling, you know. And I thought will I pull rip cord or not? But then I think self-preservation came in. I pulled it. And went out to it again and landed on the ground. But I lost my flying boots on the way down. And I met up with my engineer. We decided to escape. Go to Switzerland which was three hundred miles away.
JM: Yeah.
KM: We were in the snow and I didn’t have any flying boots. Yeah.
JM: What, how were your boots sort of damaged is why they came off?
KM: The rush of air used to get them. That was the trouble. They had a fault with them. And then they brought in a new type of flying boot which was an escape boot.
JM: Boot. Yeah.
KM: Which you took part of the flying boot off and you end up with a shoe.
JM: Shoe.
KM: Yeah. But I hadn’t been issued with those.
JM: Issued with those.
KM: The engineer had.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: So what we did we took the top part of his flying boot off and wrapped it around my feet, you know. But we only, we went two or three hours and my feet were absolutely frozen.
JM: Frozen.
KM: So I said to him, ‘Well I’m going to give myself up.’ So we came to this few houses and knocked on the door. It was about 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning. And knocked on the windows and called out, ‘Australians.’ You know [laughs] But there was women in there. They wouldn’t open the door. I think they were frightened of us.
JM: Yeah.
KM: We got to another place and a bit of a farmhouse and just went in to the farmyard and let them know. A bloke came out and put us in a barn and we spent the night there. And then the police arrived the next day. The farmer by the way gave me a pair of old boots to put on.
JM: Oh that’s good.
KM: They weren’t the right size.
JM: Size.
KM: But still they were something.
JM: They were something. Yeah. Gave a bit of protection.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Did they give you any food or —?
KM: I think he might have given us a cup of tea. Yeah. They, the farmer, they wouldn’t be too badly off. But the Germans were you know [pause] their place, you know, was in a mess. From there we went in to this town called Wetzlar and it was and — there wasn’t a thing standing. They put us in the local jail and we got kicked around a little bit but still —
JM: So this was just the normal German police at this stage.
KM: No. That’s where they handed us over to the army there. Yeah.
JM: Oh right.
KM: Yeah. Admittedly they did get a doctor to come and have a look at me because I’d done my shoulder in as well. I lost the sleeve off my battle jacket. You know, it was torn off. My shoulder was injured and they got, the doctor did come which was good I thought. Yeah.
JM: And did he, was he able to do anything? Or did he just strap it up or what?
KM: No. He just looked at it and he put a couple of dressings on the leg and feet. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Because it was eating right in to the ball of my feet, you know eating away. Yeah. From there we went to Dulag Luft which was the interrogation centre. Had a week there in solitary confinement which, we were in a room where you can’t see out and you didn’t know if it was day or night and they’d turn the lights off. On and off. And the heating. They’d turn that on and off as well. On the wall there were, you could see where blokes had scratched the number of days. I don’t know whether the Germans had put it there to upset us or not but [laughs] you’d look at and you’d say, ‘Oh God.’ Yeah — but the Germans —
JM: But did they try to —
KM: Well they tried —
JM: Torture you in any other way. I mean obviously this was mental sort of torture.
KM: Yeah that was mental torture. The interrogation. Interrogation part was, they were very good to you. They tried to be nice to you. They’d offer you cigarettes and everything like that, you know. But they knew what squadron we came from.
JM: From —
KM: Yeah.
JM: And their English was reasonable?
KM: Oh his English. There was a chap that I had he was, he had an American accent. And he said he’d spent all his childhood in America.
JM: Right.
KM: And he’d just came back with the war. Yeah. And we were, we were carrying a new piece of equipment which I didn’t know what it was. I, you know, I wasn’t properly aware of it. What it, what it, how to work it or anything like that so they couldn’t get anything out of me about it. They, they were very interested in that. Yeah.
JM: And was your engineer with you? Still with you at the station or had they separated with you at this stage?
KM: Oh we were in separate. Yeah. Never saw him.
JM: You were in separate cells but —
KM: Yeah. Never saw him. Not during that period. No.
JM: No. Well yes obviously in solitary confinement. No.
KM: Yeah.
JM: But you were both, but you were both in the same station.
KM: Yeah. So was the skipper.
JM: Oh was he?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Oh he’d been pulled in as well. Right.
KM: Yeah. He’d been brought in as well. Yeah.
JM: Right. Ok. Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So at least you knew the three of them ultimately you knew there was three.
KM: I knew there was three. There was three of us still alive.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. And then they let us go. We went to a transit place where they gave me a new top. Some American flak jacket or some bloody thing. I don’t know. No collars or anything like that. And then put us on a train to Luckenwalde, which was south of Berlin. We spent about seven or eight days on that train. One of those where forty men or eight horses. You know. We were supposed to go up to a camp on the north of Germany but I think because of the bombing I think we were being diverted all the time and switched and everything. It wasn’t the, wasn’t the greatest of trips. It wasn’t as good as the trip across America [laughs]
JM: No porters in other words.
KM: Yeah. And it was very awkward. There was no toilets or anything. If you wanted to go and do a wee, you know, you’d have to, you could open the doors but the cold, you know. It was freezing cold.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And I had, I could only stand on one leg.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And standing there and you’re swaying.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And getting abused by everybody because the doors were open.
JM: Abused by everyone else because the doors. That’s right. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And trying to, you know, make sure the wind was blowing in the right direction apart from everything else.
KM: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Because this was, what? This is January. This was what? Towards the end of January I suppose by this stage if you were in —
KM: It was. Yeah. That would be it would be yeah. Would be the end of January.
JM: Because you’d had seven days in solitary confinement so —
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So you’re getting towards the end of January.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So yeah. So I mean gosh. It’s just so cold. That’s just peak midwinter.
KM: Yeah.
JM: It’s freezing.
KM: Then we got, we finally got to Luckenwalde and it was a camp. It was a very big camp. It was about thirty miles south of Berlin.
JM: Yeah.
KM: It had a multitude of different prisoners there. Russians, Italians, French, Poles, Americans. You name it. The hut that I went into — Hitler at one time had tried to form an International Brigade. He wanted people to fight for Germany against the Russians. Not to fight against England. And he, what he concentrated on were the Irish because the Irish were only in the war because they like fighting. So anybody with an Irish name they went to this camp and they were offered, you know fight to, to join the army and fight for Germany. Very few did it but I ended up in this Irish hut. And it was north of Ireland one end and south of Ireland the other. They didn’t talk. Some of them, they’d had been prisoners for four of five years you know and there was still that division between them. Yeah. When I was there [pause]I was going to say something but a different type, you know. Coming from Australia and being very young you’re not going to be aware of this sort of thing. I couldn’t understand it. Actually, I still shake my head in bloody amazement. The fact that people could be like that you know.
JM: So stubborn.
KM: Yeah.
JM: In the circumstances.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yes.
KM: It was religion as well you know. But still.
JM: So you didn’t. So —
KM: And I was lucky while I was there. There was an American. He’d been captured. He was in the airborne division and was captured at Arnhem and they’d marched them all the way across. He still had some Sulfanilamide powder which he put on my feet because the, there was, you know holes about that far in to my feet you know. I couldn’t walk. And he put the Sulfanilamide powder on and that brought them back to life. Yeah. Eventually. Yeah.
JM: And were the pilot and the engineer also brought into this same camp?
KM: Yes. The engineer was. The pilot — he was over in the officer’s compound.
JM: Compound yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So did you see, and then see the engineer from time to time?
KM: Yeah. Saw him a lot. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And then eventually the Russians liberated us. Didn’t want, didn’t want to let the — we were in the, you know where the Americans had stopped at the River Elbe and we were, I suppose about forty or fifty miles from there. They wouldn’t let the Americans come through or anybody else. What they wanted to do was to bring us back, take us back through Germany and then claim the money. You know. And we weren’t supposed to leave the camp.
JM: What were conditions like in the camp? Generally speaking.
KM: They weren’t —
JM: I mean obviously it’s a prisoner of war camp so it’s not going to be great.
KM: Yeah.
JM: But I mean, you know — any particular things stand out for you?
KM: Food was very light on, yeah. Conditions weren’t the best but —
JM: How many people in each sort of hut type thing?
KM: I suppose could be about a hundred I suppose. Yes. Yes. It’s a bit hard to remember now. Yeah.
JM: No. That’s alright. Just an impression.
KM: Yeah.
JM: That, you know. I mean —
KM: There would have been about [pause] in the camp itself — it was a big camp. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there was fifteen to twenty thousand there. You know. The Russians were treated atrociously because they didn’t have the Geneva Convention. Yeah. And luckily we did get some, on occasion we got a Red Cross parcel and through that we could buy bread with cigarettes or, yeah, chocolate. Yeah.
JM: So how long were — how long before the Russians came in? When did the Russians come in?
KM: They came in the end of April or beginning of May. Beginning of May, round about. We were forbidden to leave the camp. Which is like a red rag to a bull [pause] and the chap that, the English chap — I used to muck in with him, you know. We used to share things like food and everything like that. And he’d gone in to, in to the town and he’d met up with two frauleins or fraus they were and he sent a message back for me to come in. So, I went in to the town and when I was in the town there, there was two bloody British officers and I said, ‘Hello,’ to them and they handed me over to the Russians and that was the first time I was really scared. There was, you know, they couldn’t speak English and there was this big Russian officer and a Mongolian offsider and they had me in the room there interrogating me and I thought [laughs] I thought — you know.
JM: This is not good.
KM: Not good. They said, ‘Stop here.’ And they left the room. I did a bunk. Thank God.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Then I went around.
JM: Why? Do you know why the British officers would have just handed you over to the Russians?
KM: Because we’d disobeyed the rules.
JM: Oh. Ok.
KM: Yeah. They were Air Force blokes, you know.
JM: That’s ridiculous.
KM: It’s amazing. Yeah.
JM: But had they been prisoner of war as well?
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: They were out of the camp.
JM: They were from the camp as well.
KM: They were out of the camp. Yeah.
JM: So why were they out of the camp? Were the officers allowed?
KM: Well they were, they were allowed. They were on duty to make sure that the —
JM: There were none of the underlings running around the town.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Ok. Right. Cushy job to get that then wasn’t it?
KM: Yeah. I went and caught up with my mate and I had a bath there and he said, ‘Stop the night,’ and I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘I’d rather wait to get back to England.’ Yeah. So I went back to the camp. That night, after I’d left there he said there were two Russian soldiers came to the door and came in and he said, he met her put their arm around him and he said, you know, and the he was looking in the barrel of a shotgun and one of them raped one of the women. And then they came back and the other one raped the other one. My mate said to me, he said, ‘Jeez I wish you’d been there Aussie,’ he said, ‘We would have done something about it.’ I said, ‘Thank God I wasn’t there because I wouldn’t be here now.’ Yeah. Then two days after —
JM: Did he, did he then come back to camp as well did he or —?
KM: He came back to camp the next day. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But then he went back to town.
JM: Ok.
KM: And then two other chaps and myself we purloined a couple of bikes each. A bike each. There were three bikes. And we set off on our own towards the River Elbe and we got to a town and there was an American truck there that had come in to do some liaison with the Germans. With the Russians and he picked us up and took us back to the American line. And on the way there we passed two other chaps. They were officers. RAF officers riding their bikes and we said to the Yank to stop the car, the truck. He stopped and we told these blokes to throw the bikes away and get on board. They said, ‘No.’ They were enjoying the ride. Fair dinkum, you know. So we told the driver to, bugger them and he and we drove on. When I think about it now they could have even been Germans dressed up as — yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. When you think about it. Because I don’t think anybody could be that stupid.
JM: Stupid. No.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. So then I got —
JM: So back to the American base on the Elbe.
KM: Yeah. We were there for a day and then we went on to another place and then the surrender came through while we were there. While I was there. Yeah. And then the next couple of days, you know, went to [pause] flown to Calais, then caught a tank landing ship —
JM: How did you get flown?
KM: British.
JM: British?
KM: Transport. Yeah. We were taken to an aerodrome.
JM: Yeah. So that was —
KM: Some place in Germany.
JM: Near Berlin then I presume.
KM: No we were in the American lines. We were well from the, well away Germany —
JM: Oh ok.
KM: From Berlin.
JM: Berlin.
KM: Because Berlin was well inside. They had to stop at the River Elbe you see.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
KM: British and American.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Had to stop there.
JM: So it was on the other side of the Elbe.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah so —
KM: Back towards France.
JM: Yeah. Ok.
KM: And they were picked up by a small plane there and flown to Calais
JM: Yeah.
KM: Put on a tank landing ship and went across to Portsmouth. Portsmouth —
JM: Did the engineer go with you? So were you —
KM: No. I was on my own then.
JM: You were on your own then.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: And the pilot was obviously being —
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Handled differently again.
KM: Yeah. They were still in the camp.
JM: Oh ok. Right. Oh that’s right. You’d gone on your bikes and —
KM: Yeah. We escaped.
JM: You were a couple of Irishmen were they?
KM: No. English.
JM: Oh a couple of English.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok. You say you got back to Portsmouth.
KM: Portsmouth and then they put me on the train. Sent me down to Brighton.
JM: Right.
KM: And that was good because I had my battle pants on. Had an American jacket without sleeves.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Without collar.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Then one of those brown knitted caps that the Americans wore.
JM: And you didn’t have any sort of coat. You must have been freezing just about all the time just because you were still —
KM: Yeah. When I say coat it did have sleeves on it.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: It did have a sleeve yeah.
JM: Oh of course but this time it’s May isn’t it?
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Do you know roughly, do you have a date that you got to Portsmouth in mind or you don’t remember exactly?
KM: I think it was about the 11th of May.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So then you went —
KM: And I know I was having a feed in the mess at Brighton and I broke all the rules because I still had the cap on. I hadn’t taken it off yet. You’re not allowed to wear a cap in —
JM: In the mess.
KM: At the mess. Yeah. Yeah. And from there had a week’s leave, a week or two leave and then I had six weeks at a rehabilitation place. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Where was that?
KM: Hoylake.
JM: Hoylake. Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Whereabouts it that?
KM: Hoylake is near Liverpool.
JM: Yeah.
KM: In an old home that was right on the golf course. They play the British Open at Hoylake. Yeah.
JM: Open there. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
KM: Beautiful old home.
JM: So you were able, you said you had, before you went to Hoylake that you went to — had a couple of weeks leave.
KM: Yeah.
JM: What did you — were you able to enjoy that?
KM: Oh yeah.
JM: Or were you still banged up a bit from — well your feet and your leg would have been still giving you problems still I presume.
KM: No. My leg was alright then.
JM: Oh right. Ok.
KM: I had a couple of medical appointments in London as well.
JM: Yeah.
KM: For my arm. That was the reason they sent me to Hoylake.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Because I’d damaged all the nerves in my arm. It’s still not right, you know. It’s permanently damaged.
JM: Damaged. Yeah. So did you have leave in around London then?
KM: Around London yeah. Of course there was —
JM: Yeah. So did you go to any shows or anything like that?
KM: No. There were some people that I knew, that I had known here in Australia. They’d gone over to London in some sort of capacity. You know. Repatriation capacity. I saw them a couple of times. Yeah. Then I went to Hoylake. We were allowed to get out. Go to the pictures. I met a girl there. Fell madly in love or that’s what you think [laughs] She was going to come back to Australia but it never eventuated. You know, I can’t think of her surname. Isn’t it terrible? I can think of her Christian name and no surname. Yeah. She was a lovely girl but still. One of those things. And then in the end they said, because I got in to trouble with the doctors there as well because I used to be late home from a night. You had to be home at 11 o’clock and I used to in about twelve. Yeah. In the end they said they thought the best thing they could do for me was to send me back to Australia. And I said, ‘For once I agree with you.’ Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. But I can always remember in the place there, there was, you know. You think you’re badly off but there was a young bloke about my age. He had lost both arms. I went past his room this time and you could hear him crying, you know. I thought what sort of a life has he got to look forward to? Yeah.
JM: Was he English or Australian?
KM: English.
JM: English. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. I don’t know how he lost them but yeah I did. I did speak to him.
JM: Perhaps he was army. Possibly army perhaps he was army because I mean —
KM: No. He was Air Force.
JM: He was Air Force ok.
KM: It was an Air Force convalescent home.
JM: Oh this was specifically Air Force. Right. Ok. I thought —
KM: Yeah.
JM: Sometimes they were multi service ones.
KM: Yeah.
JM: But that was — right ok.
KM: So then we got on the Orion and came home via the Panama Canal. And halfway home the Japanese surrendered. So I missed the bloody victory in Europe and I missed victory over Japan. Yeah. So —
JM: On the other hand you were safely on board a boat.
KM: I was safe. Well, yeah. Yeah.
JM: On a, the Orion would have been reasonably comfortable was it?
KM: It wasn’t bad. Yeah. Yeah. Not — it was still, still a troop ship.
JM: A troop ship yeah. How many? Was it?
KM: I can’t remember.
JM: Can’t remember.
KM: I know that there was a lot of English sailors on it who were coming out to join the, you know, the fleet they had out here in Australia. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Then home here. I had two or three weeks leave and then I went to a convalescent home at Sussex Inlet. The air force had it. Had it down there.
JM: Right.
KM: And then I was finally discharged in February ’46.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. That’s my story.
JM: Yes. So then that’s —
KM: It went on for a while.
JM: No. That’s — so February ‘46 you were discharged.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And so what, what, did you feel that you were fully recovered then from — after you’d had that time you had at Sussex Inlet? I mean the time were the physical injuries more or less —?
KM: Well they couldn’t do anything with me down there. They couldn’t get this repaired so that was it. It was just —
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. And so then I went straight to university and did dentistry which I failed my exams which was understandable. I didn’t go back to teacher’s college because after the life I’d led in the air force I felt that teaching was too mundane, you know. It just, it didn’t appeal to me then. So then I had a couple of other jobs and I ended up going to the Commonwealth Bank in 1949. Got married in 1949 as well.
JM: So you’re back in Sydney at this point.
KM: Yes.
JM: And you’d been living with your parents?
KM: At Kirribilli.
JM: So they’d moved to Kirribilli.
KM: Yeah.
JM: By this stage.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ok so they had sold — had they sold —
KM: Sold. Yeah.
JM: Potts Point.
KM: They had another business after that.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: They had a business in Margaret Street in, next door to the Scotch Church at [unclear]
JM: Oh yeah.
KM: Yeah. Lammington Hall was — yeah. They sold that and then went to Kirribilli.
JM: Right.
KM: And —
JM: And what did they have at Kirribilli?
KM: Same sort of thing. Private hotel. Yeah.
JM: Private Hotel. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were staying with them?
KM: Yeah.
JM: While you were in those other couple of jobs.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: And then —
KM: And when I got married we just had a small unit at Mossman before we went to Mona Vale.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah. And then we lived at Mona Vale for about forty years until I retired and then moved. Went to Nambucca Heads for a year, ten years. Then to Cabarita Beach down here. And Helen developed Alzheimers and I’d looked after her for about ten years and it got to the stage I knew that she’d eventually have to go, she would have to go into care so that was the reason I came to this place here, because they had the nursing home. It was easy for me because I could go over every day and see her. Bring her home if I wanted to. But she was only for about three months when she died suddenly. Yeah. So that was six years ago.
JM: Six years ago.
KM: On the 20th of February. Yeah. But I’ve got three kids, seven grandchildren and three great grandchildren.
JM: And are the children around the area at all or —?
KM: The two girls are.
JM: Yeah.
KM: My two daughters are.
JM: And where are they?
KM: One’s at Kingscliff and the other one’s at Tanglewood.
JM: Right.
KM: Which is out at Cabarita beach.
JM: Beach. Right ok.
KM: And my son’s at Dee Why in Sydney.
JM: Sydney. Ok. So back in Sydney still. Right. So from basically ’49 to when you retired in — when did you say you retired?
KM: I retired in ’82.
JM: ’82. So you did all that time in the Commonwealth Bank. Did you stay in Sydney all that time in Sydney all that time, or did you do any country postings?
KM: No. I was a relieving manager. I used to relieve all over New South Wales. But —
JM: Right.
KM: But I didn’t [pause], they wanted me to, wanted to know if I was mobile which meant I’d go to any country town and I said no. Because we had a nice, we were living in Mona Vale. The kids were just going to school. We, you know, so they, you know, they had continuity. It cost me promotions and things like that but that’s not everything.
JM: No.
KM: No. And the Commonwealth Bank was never my kettle of fish. It really, you know, it was a job which I did to the best of my ability but I wouldn’t say that I was overly enjoyed working there.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: But it gave you the security that you needed.
KM: Well it gave me security. That’s right. Yeah. Well in those days that’s what you looked for.
JM: Yeah.
KM: They don’t seem to worry about that these days. Security doesn’t mean, seem to mean very much.
JM: No. That’s right.
KM: In those days everybody took a job in public service or Commonwealth Bank or something like that, you know where you were going to have a job for life. Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. That’s right. So, and of course obviously that was while it was still part of the government before. I’m just trying to think when did the government sell it off. Before or after you retired?
KM: No. They sold it off before I retired yeah.
JM: Retired. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. And that’s when it —
JM: Started to change.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Wait a moment. No. I had retired. I’m Sorry. I had retired. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. That was probably a good thing you were out before. Yeah. It was ok for the first few years but then it became a dog eat dog job. I had mates who were in there.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And they said you’ve got no idea what it was like.
JM: Like. Yeah. Yeah.
KM: So all they were after was the mighty profits.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And it was it was functioning well before that. We were the leading. When I joined the bank we were tenth. There was ten banks and we were tenth. And of course there was an amalgamation and everything like that. When I left we were first.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But we hadn’t, we were still a government bank.
JM: Bank. Yeah.
KM: Yeah. And then it all they want to do now is to make big profits.
JM: Profits. That’s right.
KM: And I think the banks are terrible. You know the — [unclear] set up here. One of my mates was telling me. Went in there the other day. There’s no tellers.
JM: No. That’s the new style. That’s right.
KM: You’ve got to go to an ATM.
JM: ATM. Yeah.
KM: And what they forget is that old people are frightened of ATMs. Well they’re not frightened of them. They just don’t trust them.
JM: They just don’t. They prefer not to use them that’s right.
KM: They don’t trust them and you know that’s one of the things. You like to go in to a bank and speak to a teller.
JM: That’s right.
KM: But yeah and —
JM: And just going back to post-war as such. Were, have, did you maintain any contacts in the post-war with the pilot?
KM: I did —
JM: And the engineer?
KM: I did for the engineer for a little while and then like all things that you drop off. And then with the pilot I had contacted him for a while as well and that dropped off.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But then a mate of mine, he was with 460 Squadron.
JM: Yeah.
KM: They had an Association and he told me that 12 Squadron had one which was called the Wickenby Register. And he managed to get me an application form to join it so I joined it. They sent me a booklet and there was my pilot’s name in there. So I wrote to him and then we went over to see him.
JM: Yeah. What year was that roughly? Seventies. Eighties.
KM: Eighties.
JM: Eighties. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: That was after you retired.
KM: After I retired yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And then they came out here. Then we went over again. And they came out again and then she died and then he died after that. Yeah. Yeah. But we had [pause] we met one time. We met them and we met them in, we went to a squadron reunion. It was at Nottingham and from there we went to France. We had a, got a car which we arranged. It was a left hand drive car. It was manual. It was a brand new car. A manual sedan, and he wouldn’t let me drive because it was on the wrong side of the road. But the trouble was after we’d been driving for a while I had to tell him when the lights were changing because he’d had to have an eye operation beforehand and he hadn’t had it [laughs] Then we had a little bit of a prang and that’s when he let me drive. So I drove up all the way after that you know, to Belgium.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Holland.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Germany.
JM: Germany. Yeah.
KM: France, Spain everywhere.
JM: Gosh. A fabulous trip.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But it was difficult because you were on the left hand drive and a manual car as well.
JM: Yeah. I know.
KM: The gears are on the wrong side.
JM: You’re on the wrong side of the road. I know.
KM: Every time you put your indicator on it was your windscreen wipers came on.
JM: Windscreen wipers [laughs]
KM: It was a good trip. A real good trip.
JM: Yeah. You covered, you must have covered a lot of territory.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So you didn’t go back to Germany at all.
KM: Yeah. We went through Germany. Oh yeah.
JM: Didn’t do go anywhere near where you —
KM: No
JM: Didn’t go far enough up to —
KM: To the camp
JM: To the camp. Yeah.
KM: No. No. No.
JM: Did you go to any of the places where you —
KM: The rest of the crew were, they’re buried in Hamburg.
JM: Yeah.
KM: In a joint grave. They were at Wetzlar and were taken over there which I think was a joint grave because I think they had trouble identifying them. Yeah.
JM: So did you go to Hamburg at all?
KM: No.
JM: No.
KM: No.
JM: Right.
KM: That was too far over.
JM: Over. Also, yeah.
KM: As a matter of fact I just discovered this the other day [pause]
JM: And did you go to any of the places that you bombed?
KM: What happened after the war he went back into the Air Force.
JM: Oh ok.
KM: Went to university and then went back to the Air Force and he was stationed in Germany for, for quite a number of years so he got to know a lot of people. So we went to places where he knew.
JM: That you’d been over during the war.
KM: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s with the mayor and the council of some town.
JM: Town. Yeah.
KM: They made a presentation to us. It’s all in German.
JM: German yes.
KM: So don’t ask me what the name of the place is now. I’ve just discovered that the other day.
JM: Gosh, amazing. And they gave you a little presentation.
KM: Yeah.
JM: How did they know you were coming?
KM: He, he’d been in touch with friends.
JM: With friends. Right.
KM: And his friends over there got in touch with the council. Yeah.
JM: In touch with the council.
KM: And I didn’t know we were going there.
JM: Going there.
KM: The pilot. That’s him on the — over there I think. Yeah. Johnny.
JM: Right.
KM: This chap’s [pause] yeah that’s my pilot and that’s his wife.
JM: Right.
KM: And that’s Helen there.
JM: Right. Yeah.
KM: That was Helen.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And that was me.
JM: Yeah.
KM: I know that they’d taken a small gift over. Did that just go off?
JM: No. That’s all right.
KM: A small gift. I didn’t know we were going there. It was a bit embarrassing because we didn’t have anything to give them, but still.
JM: But if you didn’t know you couldn’t —
KM: That’s right. I could do anything about it. No.
JM: No. That’s right.
KM: Yeah. But they were great.
JM: Yeah.
KM: But do you know it’s an amazing thing. I had not yet met a German, and we met a hell of a lot of them while we were there, and not one of them was a Nazi.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. Not one of them was a Nazi.
KM: Not one of them was a Nazi [laughs] you know. None of them liked Hitler.
JM: No. That’s right.
KM: And I can tell you as a prisoner of war we were fed with this propaganda of how terrible the Germans were and what they did and everything like that. They’re exactly the same as you and I.
JM: Yeah. There’s some nice people and some not so nice people.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. [pause] Goodness me. And just going back to your flying. So how many —
KM: Fifteen and a half.
JM: Fifteen and a half.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Ops, you did. And in those —
KM: Yeah. That’s what I say. Lindsey did thirty and he got a DFC.
JM: Yeah.
KM: I did fifteen and a half and I got a prisoner of war badge.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. That right.
KM: An ex-prisoner of war badge.
JM: That’s right. And the crew did any of the crew members have any good luck charms or superstitions or anything like that?
KM: No. No.
JM: No. They were just —
KM: Yeah.
JM: Straight up and down.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Just happy chappies.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. What [pause] what is your overall feeling about having been a prisoner of war? Was it —
KM: It was an experience.
JM: Experience.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. You feel that —
KM: Air force life I loved.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. I often feel I should have stopped in the air force. But if I had I wouldn’t have met Helen and I wouldn’t have had the kids I’ve got.
JM: No.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Where did you meet Helen?
KM: At Narrabeen in Sydney.
JM: Yeah.
KM: My parents were in between businesses. We took a house on Narrabeen Lake and she was living next door with her sister. Her sister was married and they had a couple of kids there and Helen was sort of helping out as well, you know, with the kids although she was working. And my brother, he told me, he said, ‘Gee,’ he said, my brother was married. He said, ‘There isn’t a bad looking girl living there.’ I said, ‘is that right.’ And I came home from uni one night and I was walking down and she was putting out the garbage so I just spoke to her and, you know, we were talking. I said, ‘Would you like to go to the pictures?’ She said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘On Saturday night.’ We went to see “The Jolson Story.” And my mother came along as well. And I [laughs] I still don’t know if she was there to protect Helen or me. But I said, when I said we were going to “The Jolson Story,” she said, ‘Oh gee, I’d like to see that as well.’ Yeah. So yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: So then yeah just things developed from there on and we were engaged for about eighteen months, and, yeah.
JM: Married and —
KM: Six years later she had our first child. Yeah. Yeah. We had, we had no money when we came from honeymoon. I think we had twenty pounds between us.
JM: Yeah. Where did you go for your honeymoon?
KM: Came up the inland highway through the floods. There were big floods in those days.
JM: Yeah. So this would have been, when would this, these weren’t the ’54 floods was it?
KM: No. The ’49.
JM: Oh the ’49. Yes. Right. Yes. ’49 yes.
KM: Came up to the gold coast and just stopped off at different places.
JM: So just a little touring the rounds.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Well, that’s an incredible experience that you’ve had. And it’s [pause] like many, very different. I mean every one, every one’s story is different.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Because they’ve had different experiences. Different circumstances they found themselves in. But yet, you know, everyone has contributed in such a way that —
KM: Yeah.
JM: You know, hasn’t been recognised up until now and that’s why it’s so good that it’s finally happening even if it is just so late.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Just so late.
KM: What do you do is you remember the good times. You don’t remember the bad. There probably were occasions when things weren’t going right with the flying and everything like that but I can’t remember them now.
JM: Yeah. So strongest memories are all the good times.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: Well, yeah, with the exception of course one particular, you know.
KM: Well even that has [pause] just an experience. You know. When we were shot down and it doesn’t. I don’t think it was a momentous occasion or anything like that. It was just something that happened unexpected. Yeah. You follow?
JM: Yes. Yes.
KM: Yeah.
JM: But yet you had some training, so you had some skills to call on.
KM: Yeah.
JM: To know how to handle it.
KM: Well you knew it could happen but yeah.
JM: Could happen. Yeah.
KM: But you always had to go on it wasn’t going to happen to you.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And when it did well —
KM: It did. Well, it happened. Yeah.
JM: You can’t change it. You had to go with it.
KM: And I must say I wasn’t scared.
JM: Right.
KM: I can honestly say that I was never scared. The first time I was really scared was with the Russians.
JM: With the Russians.
KM: Yes, in the town. And of course the war was over as far as I was concerned, you know.
JM: Yeah.
KM: It was to end and then what’s going to happen now?
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And even when, you know, you were on earlier raids and you got some flak and all the rest of I. Oh it sounds like we just have to have another little pause while we wait.
[recording paused while plane passes]
JM: Yes.
KM: Had nine months off work.
JM: When was that?
KM: Just before I retired.
JM: Retired. Oh goodness.
KM: It showed that I could retire without problems.
JM: Right.
KM: Yeah.
JM: So where were you knocked down?
KM: At Taylor Square.
JM: Taylor Square. Ok.
KM: Yeah. I was doing some relief out there and I was outside. We had a thing of a morning that we had keys in combinations. You didn’t go to the bank first. You had to wait and send, you know, of the younger ones in because they used to break in to the ceiling and hide in the ceilings and then get in you know in the bank and wait for someone to come with the keys and take them hostage sort of thing and get them to open up the safe. So — and this morning this girl was, she never late. She was late. Running late. And the car came around the corner, mounted the footpath and put me through the window of a funeral parlour. [laughs]
JM: I guess you would have had a bit of damage then out of that.
KM: Yeah. I had my leg all smashed up.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Pelvis as well. But — yeah.
JM: And what about the glass? Did the glass not sort of shatter?
KM: No. No.
JM: Not lacerate you?
KM: Actually behind the plate glass there was a brick wall. So it just sort of shattered, you know. I was lucky.
JM: Lucky. Gosh.
KM: A piece of glass went down and cut my pants. Brand new pair of pants I had on [laughs] That was the only time I ever wore them. [laughs]
JM: And before we just paused there for that aeroplane we were just saying —you were saying you were never scared, and I was just going to come back to sort of, couple of the early raids. You did have a fair bit of flak around and had a few holes in the plane.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: That, that, you weren’t scared then.
KM: No. No. Not really. No. Apprehensive but not scared. You were still flying alright though.
JM: Yeah.
KM: You know. Yeah.
JM: And you managed to deal with all the cold and all the rest of it when you were flying.
KM: Yeah. Yeah.
JM: So you didn’t have any real ongoing sort of issues.
KM: No. When I was flying there when I was cold I used to control the heating.
JM: Yes. So you were always comfortable. And was the gunner always freezing?
KM: Well the heating didn’t get back to them. They had —
JM: That’s right. They had —
KM: They had electric flying suits on them.
JM: Suits. Yeah.
KM: No, that would be terrible. Being a gunner.
JM: Yeah.
KM: They were out on their own. Got nobody to talk to, you know.
JM: To talk to. Very hard.
KM: Yeah.
JM: At least you could —
KM: Well I was right next to the navigator.
JM: The navigator. That’s right.
KM: He was, I could see what he was doing. There was a bod there near you. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Well I guess at this point unless there’s something that we haven’t covered that you’d particularly would like to mention as I say that we haven’t covered through then we might wrap it up at this point.
KM: Yeah. That would be fine.
JM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
JM: Right. We’re just talking with Ken again a little bit. I got a map out with the various raids over Europe that — and Ken’s just looking at the map. In the first instance you remembered where you did your —
KM: Conversion Unit.
JM: Your conversion. Your Heavy —
KM: Conversion Unit.
JM: Your Heavy Conversion Unit was where?
KM: Lindholme.
JM: Lindholme. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: And now were just also looking at the map of various raids and looking and you were pointing out where you were headed when you on the raid that you were shot down and you were —
KM: Yeah. Near Leipzig.
JM: Leipzig and what else?
KM: The prisoner of war camp was just south of Berlin there.
JM: Yeah.
KM: And we were shot down near, not that far from Wiesbaden.
JM: Wiesbaden. Yeah.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. So that’s a reasonable distance. So you were on trains weren’t you.
KM: Yeah. We were on trains yeah. Yes. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. And so your raids basically were.
KM: We went to the Ruhr a few times. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: Yeah. I shall have to have a look at my logbook now to see where most of them were. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
KM: We were all over the place.
JM: Place. Yes.
KM: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Something here. Something there.
KM: That’s right. Yeah.
JM: Ok. Thank you.
KM: And before we finish as a personal disclaimer I should say at this point that a couple of times Ken has mentioned a Doug McCartney. And in the course of setting up this interview, because of Ken’s extraordinary memory he remembered that there was a Doug McCartney on his wireless operator training at Maryborough. And in about the second phone call he raised this with me and I looked up my records of my father’s service and indeed they were together there and it turns out for about the following six months. And so it has been an amazing experience as never did I think I would meet someone who knew my father after all these years. So I thank you very much Ken.
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AMacdonaldK170222, PMacdonaldK1703
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Interview with Ken Macdonald
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Sound
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eng
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01:33:10 audio recording
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Jean Macartney
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2017-02-22
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Ken Macdonald grew up in Australia and volunteered for the Royal Australian Air Force. He flew operations with Bomber Command.
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
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Australia
Germany
Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Luckenwalde
New York (State)--New York
New York (State)
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Julie Williams
12 Squadron
1667 HCU
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
Dulag Luft
entertainment
fear
final resting place
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
military living conditions
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Hemswell
RAF Wickenby
RAF Worksop
sanitation
Stalag 3A
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/577/8846/AGregoryN150724.1.mp3
68369faff1465dab9c9367181bffe473
Dublin Core
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Title
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Gregory, Norman
Norman Ellis Gregory
N E Gregory
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Gregory, N
Description
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Two items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Norman Gregory (-2022, 1473815) and his medals. He served as a bomb aimer on 101 Squadron. He flew five operations before his aircraft was shot down on 22 May 1944 over Dortmund.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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NG: Good afternoon my name is Norman Ellis Gregory, I served with Bomber Command during the war and my service number is 1473815. I finished my service in February 1946 with the rank of Warrant Officer. I joined the Air Force in 194unclear). I came on active service in the Air Force in 1942, going first of all to Regent’s Park. But at the time I joined up I had volunteered about a year before for air crew in York where I was at St John’s College, York. So the Air Force took a group of us who had volunteered and, er, spent all the available weekends and some evenings training us, er, through the course what would have been ITW, so that when we went to Regent’s Park we were all, all of us were LAC’s and that meant, you know, an increase in pay from half a crown up to seven and six a day, which was very nice thank you. But anyway, from Regent’s Park we went down to, erm, Brighton for what reason I can’t remember. But anyway from Brighton we, some reason we were dispersed all over the country and I was sent to Anstey which was just on the north side of Leicester. It was, erm, a flying school and I did twelve hours in Tiger Moths at, Anstey and at that place I was recommended for multi-engined aircraft. From there (pause) I eventually gravitated to Heaton Park at Manchester and from Heaton Park at Manchester in the latter part of 1942 I was sent to Greenwich on the Clyde, and I sailed to New York on the Queen Elizabeth the first time and we sailed into New York. And, er, from New York we went up to Halifax, Nova Scotia and from there me in particular, erm, I was handed over to the Canadian Air Force and I served for the next six months doing flying training, navigation courses and so on with the Canadian Air Force, not the Royal Air Force which had stations all over the place in North America. Anyway, six months later, er, the back end of June beginning of July 1943, by a strange quirk of fate I came back in reverse order, went back from Canada down to New York and I went back across the Atlantic onto Queen Elizabeth again. This time when I went up the gangway struggling with my kitbags, the officer at the top said brutally to me, I was by myself I wasn’t with a troop or whatever, he said “can you sleep in a hammock” I said “yes sir” he said “well you go far into the focus of the crew” and that’s how I crossed the Atlantic the second time swaying in a hammock with the crew. I came back to the United Kingdom, erm, I was then in posted to, erm, (pause) to Harrogate and from Harrogate we were dispersed to the various OUT’s over the country and, erm, I ended up at 28 OUT. But before that, I can’t remember the name off hand, erm, it was just outside Shepshed in Leicestershire and that’s where we crewed up. Having crewed up we went to Castle Donnington and for the next four or five months we were flying Wellingtons day and night and on one occasion we’d hardly taken off when the skipper called down to me in the nose and said “Greg Greg come up here I’m crook” he said and he was slumped over the controls. Now fortunately this went and we dual controlled and so I had to jump up into the co-pilot’s seat and I flew that Lancaster all night and we eventually came back to Castle Donnington and I had made my first run in to land the aircraft at night. I hastily add that I had landed a Wellington during daylight but not at night and I was going round for another circuit on to attempt to land the aircraft when the skipper came out of his coma and said “what are you doing”, “where are we” and I explained that we were on the circuit and he says “I’ll take over” and he landed it. And, erm, I expect everyone was very happy (laughs) to get their feet back on the ground again that night. Well from Castle Donnington we went to Hemswell, er, that was a heavy conversion unit and we were going to change or go up the ladder from two engines to four and they sent us from Hemswell to a brand new satellite and there were, I don’t know how many, possibly about twenty, very antique Halifax’s and in the first fortnight there we lost six aircraft and all the crews due to, erm, the Halifax mark. It had some sort of fault in the tail unit and all the aircraft after those six losses, all the craft were grounded and men came out of the Halifax factory and put the mark II tail unit on. From there we went to, erm, squadron. There was a time where you went to Lancaster flying school flying training school, but by then the squadrons preferred to run their own flying training school so it was, erm, end of March early April. We went to 101 squadron and for the next six weeks we were just learning to fly the Lancaster and I am proud to say that, erm, the skipper allowed me to sit in the pilot seat and fly the Lancaster and when we had completed night time, day time flying we would go on, the fighters would come along side and we’d shoot at the droves. You know from the Lancaster and we’d do daytime bombing with practice bombs and night time bombings with practice bombs and so on and when they were satisfied that we could fly the Lancaster then we were put on the rota for bombing operations and the night of the 3rd 4th of May 1944, erm, we went on our first op to a place called Milaca, it’s about a hundred miles east of Paris. And the aircraft, all Lancaster’s, came from One group and Six group, all in the Lincolnshire area, and goodness knows what happened that night. There’s all sorts of stories, but we were circling the (pause) turning point for twenty minutes and unfortunately there was a German night fighter station a matter of a few minutes away from where we are and so there was a Turkey shoot. There were out of the 350 Lancs on that target and incidentally it was a low level attack on a pre-war French barracks which was supposed to have an (unclear) edition there and so we were bombing at seven thousand feet instead of the normal twenty thousand feet. I’ve got photographs there, that, er, possible to see, there was not two bricks on top of each other, it was literally flattened without doing any damage to the local French community. Unfortunately we lost over forty aircraft and they scattered over say a ten mile radius from there. They’re all buried in church yards in that vicinity and I’ve been back at least five times over the last you know thirty years or so to visit the different burial places of these crews. Two years ago I went there with my daughter and we went to a village that I had never been to before and we were told that there was a crew buried in the church yard at this village and when I got there we had a service in the church yard in memory of this particular crew. Then the local people said that the aircraft in question came down in the forest, you know, over there sort of thing, and they were going to take us up into the forest to the exact spot, because in the previous year the local community had got a big lump of rock at to mark the exact place where this aircraft came down. It was all chiselled with the name of the aircraft and the names of the crew and everything, and when we went up in the forest I was the only man there who had actually been on that raid. I was literally gobsmacked because, erm, I’d known all these years that there were 350 Lancs on the target and what a loss there was, not only from my own squadron, but from many other squadrons. The local people told me that the aircraft in the forest was a Halifax and I’d never heard of this it’s (unclear), now this links up with the fact that during the time of circling the marker point before turning into bombing, I heard the master bomber over the RT say “this is your master bomber going down take over number two” and that was the Halifax that you know I visited in the woods. It turns out that this Halifax had belonged to the PFF and it had been vastly modified. It carried a crew of eight, they had removed all the Bombay’s and put long range tanks in, but he was shot down along with the other forty aircraft and they were all killed, very sad. When the local Mayoress unveiled this, er, memorial up in the forest, er, a little boy with a velvet cushion and a special pair of scissors went up to the Lady Mayoress and bowed to her, she took these pair of scissors and she cut the tricolour tape that went round. It’s customary apparently in those places that they chop up this ribbon and give it to all the important people. The first piece that was chopped off was presented to me, which I still have. Well unfortunately for me and for my crew I suppose, and a lot of other people too, we only completed five raids when we were shot down over Dortmand in the Ruhr on the night of the 22nd of May 1944. We were shot down from underneath and we were on our way literally within minutes of dropping the bomb load on Dortmund, and so the, er, shells of the enemy aircraft set the insentry load on the Bombay on fire and of course I was in the nose and there was the wireless operator, the navigator, the flight engineer and the skipper on the flight deck and none knew that the aircraft was on fire until something alerted the er the radio man that there was something wrong. He opened the door, and from there to the after the aircraft and the whole thing was a raging inferno, I mean it was a case of if the shells had been ten feet forward they’d have shot everyone in the flight deck you see. So the tail gunner was killed, the special wireless operator was killed and the mid upper gunner was killed there and then in this raging inferno in the aircraft, so the skipper decided in the next few minutes I had dropped the bomb load on (unclear) and the skipper said that we’ll have to abandon the aircraft. But of course I’m lying on the escape hatch and so I, I removed the hatch and you have to disconnect your (unclear) you have to disconnect your power supply to your, I had a power, erm, (unclear) heated chute and you have to, and your intercom, so it’s quite a, and then you’ve got to get your parachute and clip it on. And then you literally dive into the open shoot as if you’re diving into the water and captain and pull the ripcord, and in my case, and I’m afraid in lots of other cases, when I’ve compared notes years afterwards, that when this, erm, pack on my chest was pulled upwards when the parachute was displayed it caught me under the chin and knocked me out. Mind you in twenty three thousand feet there’s a remarkable lack of oxygen so, erm, that may or may not have played part, but anyway it knocked me out. And when I came to there was a deathly hush, there wasn’t an aircraft in the sky, they’d all gone home and I’m floating in this parachute, but I’m combed by a searchlight that I’ve never heard of anybody else, but obviously it could have happened many times, and the searchlight followed me all the way down to the ground. I thought that I would get a belly full of lead but I didn’t, my boots had fallen off and when I landed I was exceptionally lucky, I just happened to land in a small clearing in an area of forest or a lot of trees anyway, but unfortunately I didn’t see the land, the ground coming up, and I damaged my right knee. I could stand on my left leg but I couldn’t walk and so I crawled and crawled and crawled and crawled until I came to a little row of, er, small houses and just the nearest one I knocked on the door and a young woman a woman of about twenty came to the door she took me and in. Unfortunately for me that night in my navigation bag I had left my cigarette case, er, it was just something I’d never done before I usually kept the cigarette case about my person and so I said, I tried to, I couldn’t speak German at that time and I said to the made signs to this young lady that I would like a, had she got a cigarette and she disappeared out into the night. She came back ten or fifteen minutes later and handed me two gold flake (laughs) where she got them from I have no idea and she was accompanied by the village policeman and he started to speak to me in German. When I implied I couldn’t understand what was going on he started to speak to me in French and so my schoolboy French came into good use and, er, he was a POW for the French in World War I so there was a certain amount of empathy between the two of us. I still have a little giggle all these years later, that because I couldn’t walk he put me on the cross bar of his bicycle and I was wheeled into captivity (laughs). Well from there in the local lock up sort of a place, like a large village, I was picked up the next morning by a young under officer, a corporal I suppose in the Luftwaffe and he had come from the airfield at Dortmund and so I don’t know how far out of Dortmund I was, but a mile or two. He took me on the local train into Dortmund and of course that is what I’d had been bombing the night before so all these people milling about the railway station in Dortmund thought it would be a good idea to get hold of me. And so this corporal pulled his revolver and told me to get behind him and he threatened and he said “if you lay hands or try to lay hands on me” that he would fire his revolver so that was a good plus mark for me. So for the next few days I was in the sails of this airfield just outside Dortmund, the only aircraft I could see was a single engine (unclear) so there weren’t any night fighters or day fighters anything there. To my great surprise my skipper and navigator were already prisoners there and it turns out the information they gave me that after I’d bailed out seconds later the controls were within a shot away or burnt away and the aircraft went over. The skipper and navigator were literally thrown up through the canopy and the others, the wireless operator and the flight engineer, they didn’t manage to get out, you can’t if you’ve got that amount of negative to you you’re just pinned down. And so unfortunately that added two more deaths to the three already and the skipper and navigator. When we came back to Blighty a year later, they went their different ways. But they both died about thirty years ago of cancer, I presume from smoking, but they were literally in their sort of, well the navigator would only be about fifty-five when he died of liver cancer and the skipper died about ten years later exactly, it was cancer I know. Getting back to Germany the three of us went back down to Frankfurt to the interrogation centre and from there we went to, erm, a little village, a little town called Wetzler which is the home of Zeiss. They were in a newly made little camp and it was tents, bell tents, that they’d captured I suppose at Dunkirk. Every time it rained, the water ran through the tent and we got very wet at night, and subsequent to that we were sent down the skipper was commissioned by that time. He went to Luft 8 where they had that famous escape and the navigator and myself went to Luft 7, which was a new camp alleged in Silesia and (pause) it’s a change from the tents. This, this camp in Bancow was, erm, I don’t know how many hundred, but an awful lot of chicken huts, and we were six to a chicken hut instead of a tent and this was an improvement. But it was summer time and by late September early October, erm, nearby presumably Russian labour was used to build a permanent camp because the Germans were fed up of the RAF escaping or attempting to escape. They built all the barracks on stilts and at nine 0 clock each night, not only were we locked in, but they set all these Alsatian dogs out in the compounds. So trundling because you were on stilts was out of the question but (pause) we were only in that permanent camp for a matter of months, four months at the most I would think. Because it was towards the end of January 1945 that the Germans were being attacked, er, by the Russians on their own border. The Russians were breaking through in our direction from Warsaw and the Germans decided to evacuate us, as they did all the other POW camps you know. Some up on the (unclear) some in the South of Germany and so on and we were on the march for three weeks. There was a metre of snow on the ground and (pause) mostly in the first week we were only marching at night, turning if the roads opened from the German troop movements and tank movements during the day. Eventually after three weeks we got to a place called Luckenwalde about twenty or so miles or so south of Berlin and that was a huge er camp. I I, I couldn’t even dream of a POW camp of between twenty and twenty-five thousand men in it. And this camp, it wasn’t initially anything to do with the Airforce. Normally in the POW camps the German Luftwaffe made prison camps for Airforce people and the German (unclear) made their prison camps for the army and the Luftmarine. No, no not the Luftmarine but the German navy looked after their own kind, but in this place at, erm, camp in Luckenwalde they had separate compounds for the French, the Dutch the Norwegians, every nationality that they’d conquered had compounds there. But the predominant ones were the French because they were using the French, not only the French army and Airforce no doubt, but the French civilian males as forced labour in Germany. And anyway, I was part of a troop of RAF lads on this march, there were seven of us, and initially on march the first night we all slept by ourselves. The next night we slept in twos for warmth and eventually the seven of us, if there was any chance of kipping down in barns or whatever, we were seven in the bed, and bitter were the complaints “I was on the outside last night” (laughs). Incidentally the first month that I was in Germany I never had my clothes off or had a shower and it was a repeat run on this so called death march, nobody had their clothes off and so you know it was just do as best you could. But I had, I was exceptionally lucky, I don’t know where I got them from but I had four pairs of socks and on that death march I wore two pairs of socks by day and I had a strong pair of boots and the other two pairs were tucked inside my shirt next to my skin so that they were warm and dry. And so each night or day if the case was that we were going to stop marching for twelve hours or so, that the first thing I could do was to take my boots off, take my socks off put warm dry socks onto my cold feet and put the two pairs of socks that I’d taken off back to get warm and dry next to my skin. Well it seems curious to say this, but it’s perfectly true that when we got back to Luckenwalde, the barracks that were given were simply large empty sheds with a roof and windows that were closed and a concrete floor and we were just, you know, assumed to find a patch on the concrete floor where we could lie down, but it was actually wonderful to have (laughs) somewhere out of the weather, out of the rain and out of the snow just to lie on a bit of concrete. But there it was, it, we were only there oh two or three weeks when we managed to get into a different block where we had probably a room no more than fifteen foot square with bunks in it so the seven of us were in that room. And on one occasion, and the next compound was a Russian compound, and we managed to smuggle a Russian out of the Russian compound into our room, I don’t know how this, this was organised, but this man was allegedly a tailor to trade and he was doing all our mending. Whilst he was sitting there with his needle and thread and doing his mending for us, a Russian, a German officer came in and he would have been shot just where he was sitting if he’d known he was a Russian, but fortunately he wasn’t dressed like a Russian and so he just carried on doing sewing and, er, the German officer cleared off and what not. But anyway subsequent to that, we were all very hungry and short of rations, at that particular place one of the daily rounds was a German with a paler full of potatoes who came round and HE put his hand in the bucket and gave YOU a potato, if you were jolly lucky it might be a as big as a tennis ball, but believe me they were a lot smaller than that. So, erm, because I could speak French and nobody in that group of seven could, two or three of us including me were smuggled into the French compound so we could do barter to get some food for them because they were going out of the camp every day and could get access to food that we obviously couldn’t and it is a bit of a matter of some amusement that I changed my RAF uniform for a French uniform so it gave me freedom of movement about in that camp and the Germans didn’t, weren’t aware that I was anything other than what I looked like and, er, so I could you know move freely about trading for food on our behalf. Well in the latter part of our stay in Luckenwalde, the Russians were getting closer and closer to their attack on Berlin and it is still is a matter of amazement that the Russian guns were powerful enough to send shells ten or fifteen miles and so we didn’t hear the artillery firing, but we did hear the shells screaming overhead and we didn’t hear the shell exploding in Berlin but it was going on, you know day after day. Eventually we woke up one morning and all the German guards had disappeared and the same day the Russians arrived and the Russians were very keen to re-patriate us back to the UK via Odessa and the Black Sea, but we weren’t very keen on that idea so, erm, we heard on our secret radio, got in touch with the Yankee forces on the other side of the (pause) I can’t remember the name, but anyway we got in touch with these Americans and when they tried to reach the camp the Russians turned them back. However, they didn’t go all the way back where the Russians hoped they would go, they retreated about three miles the other side of a forest and we were left a note that if we could get back to these lorries by a certain time that we would be taken to the American lines. And so it was we escaped from Luckenwalde and we got, we drove for a long long time and we got to Hildesheim in Germany and we were in a pre-war German barracks and to this day I am gobsmacked that it was completely untouched, it hadn’t been shelled or bombed or anything like that, it was lovely accommodation and the British Red Cross were waiting for us and gave us, er, you know, fresh underwear, socks, toothbrushes, shaving kit and that sort of thing. We were only there the one night as far as I can remember and we were flown out by Dakota down to La Halle in France. We flew over La Ruhr and it was an eye opener to see the havoc that the RAF had made for the German cities in La Ruhr. We got to La Halle, and as I say I was in a French uniform and I traded that for a Yankee uniform and within twenty-four hours the Royal Navy had shipped us across to Southampton and back to the United Kingdom. Incidentally, VE Day we spent in Ludkenwalde, we didn’t get away from Luckenwalde until three or four days after the Russians arrived so we missed all the joy and fun of VE Day. We were all posted up to RAF Cosford near Wolverhampton and given fresh kit and given excellent food and sent on six weeks leave. After that, before and after, we had medicals and the following August the Japanese gave up and we thought all these thousands and thousands of air crew were redundant and we said please can we go home, can we finish, “no you can’t leave here the Air Force until you put back the weight that you were when you joined up” (laughs), well I was only about seven and half stone when I came back from Germany so it wasn’t until you know six months later that I recovered my previous weight and I was discharged. So there we are in a nutshell this is my experiences. When we got to La Halle it was a matter of amazement to me, I mean it was a tented camp, we all had a shower and a change of clothing if we wanted it and I did, and of course there was plenty of food and I had never been in an American Mess before, in the Sergeant’s Mess in the UK for that matter. You sat down at a table to, for your food, you know, for your breakfast, your midday meal and your evening meal and in this Yankee thing, I can see, it’s a tented encampment. The tables were about a foot higher than normal tables so you had to stand at the tables, there was no sitting down, you queued up and you were given a big metal tray and they put the food on your metal tray with you know a knife, fork and spoon and you went to these very high tables and you stood there and you ate what was on your tray, handed your stuff in, so there was an endless trail of people, instead of sitting down and talking you see, they were getting rid of you as quickly as possible so that was an eye opener. I could go back to Luckenwalde, the time between that elapsed between the Russians arriving and us escaping, we went into the local village and I can remember I saw a que of women outside a bakers and so I joined the que and I got a loaf of bread you know. I was highly delighted, ver, very delighted that I’d got a loaf of bread and a day or two later, erm, one of my friends who was called by the unusual name of Robert Burns, but unfortunately he was nothing to do with the Scottish poet, he was a regular in the Air Force and he was a Sergeant fitter, an engine fitter, and he was sent out on the empire training school system to South Africa. Now he was what do you call it, he was at Holten, and these Holten Bratts, it was, er, I don’t know whether it was actually written into the contract or not, but it was a clearly understood thing what a Holten Bratt was, whether you was an earphone fitter, an engine fitter or an instrument basher or whatever trade it was that he had the right to be re-mastered to air crew. I don’t know what he got fed up about, but I mean he was a Sergeant fitter in South Africa and I suppose living like a lord, but something upset him, I never knew what, and he remastered and became air crew and he became a pilot. .He was flying out of North Africa in Wellingtons and mostly he was flying across the Mediterranean and sewing mines in the, the airports of the Northern side of the Mediterranean, and this particular night he was sewing mines in a Greek port called Milos and they were shot at, sewing mines flying low over the water and he was shot out of the water and he was the only one to get out of the aircraft alive. He was fished out of the drink by a German launch or boat of some sort. It was the middle of winter in Europe and he was flying out of North Africa with shorts and a shirt, nothing else, I mean boots, but nothing else, and he was thrown by the Germans into a barbwire compound, no hat, no tent just a nice layer of snow on the ground and that really was incarcerated. And he, for some reason I’ve never found out, nobody else could find out I suppose, that he was never directly sent to a German POW camp, he was sent for several months from one civilian jail to another all through the Southern part of Europe. Eventually he was in the same POW camp as me, and getting back to Luckenwalde when you know a lot of POWs start scowering round the countryside looking for food, the food quickly disappears, and I said to him one day, look there’s no good us going looking for food in this locality lets go for a long walk and of course being me we went for five or six miles and we came to this German farm. That area, the German farm were always built in a square, one side was the farmhouse, two sides were barns one side the wall with a big double gate and we walked round this farmhouse and everything was shuttered, you couldn’t hear any cattle, couldn’t hear any human beings and we banged on the shutters and walked round like Joshua going round the walls of Jericho. Suddenly we just turned the corner and this corner was the front of the house part of the farm, the farmhouse, and a shutter opened towards us like that and from behind the shutter there came a fist with a big knife dripping blood, and his arm came out, then the shutter was moved a bit further then the head came out, and this Robert Burns looked at this head with the man with the blood dripping knife and he said “Milanovich” and then this man, with the bloody knife, said “Robert Burns”, and they’d both been down in Bulgaria (laughs) in a civilian prison, how this Milanovich got there, goodness knows, but anyway we got a little bit of a peak out of it. That was a wonderful day for us. That’ll do.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command, I would like to thank Norman Gregory, erm, bomb aimer, warrant officer for his interview at his home address on the 24th July 2015. Thank you.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Norman Gregory
Creator
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Mick Jeffery
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-24
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AGregoryN150724
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:45:23 audio recording
Description
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Having volunteered for aircrew in 1941 in York, Norman came into active service in 1942. He flew Tiger Moths at RAF Ansty and was recommended for multi-engine aircraft. After RAF Heaton Park, he went to Halifax, Nova Scotia. He spent six months training with the Canadian Air Force before being posted to RAF Harrogate and sent to No. 28 Operational Training Unit. Before that, he flew Wellingtons at RAF Castle Donington. Norman went to a Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Hemswell and a new satellite with Halifax Mark I aircraft, grounded after six aircraft were lost.
Norman went to 101 Squadron and learnt to fly Lancasters, serving as a bomb aimer. He describes his first operation to Mailly-Le-Camp where over 40 Lancasters, out of 350, were lost.
Norman’s aircraft was shot down over Dortmund with the death of five crew members. He was captured, as were the pilot and navigator. After the Frankfurt Interrogation Centre, they went to a camp in Wetzlar. Norman then went to Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau in Silesia, followed by four months in another camp. The Germans evacuated prisoner of war camps in January 1945 following Russian attacks. Norman marched on a “death march” for three weeks in snow to Luckenwalde, a camp with 20-25,000 men.
Norman escaped with the Americans via Hildesheim and Le Havre before returning to Britain. He was posted to RAF Cosford but could only leave when he had regained weight, which took six months. He finished in February 1946 with the rank of warrant officer.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Leicestershire
England--Yorkshire
Canada
Nova Scotia
Nova Scotia--Halifax
France
France--Mailly-le-Camp
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Luckenwalde
Temporal Coverage
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1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1945-01
1946
1946-02
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
101 Squadron
28 OTU
aircrew
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
Dulag Luft
final resting place
Halifax
Halifax Mk 1
Lancaster
Master Bomber
memorial
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Ansty
RAF Castle Donington
RAF Cosford
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hemswell
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
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8213b677a3a8a29b8cd4e7df5f880021
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/680/9228/AAustinRA160616.2.mp3
5ca69c712820bfa28a2c9cecd063ff60
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Austin, Rex Alan
R A Austin
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Group Captain Rex Austin (b. 1924, 419453, 034271 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator with 207 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Austin, RA
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JH: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre in Lincolnshire. A part of the Oral History Project. The interview is John Horsburgh and today I’m interviewing Rex Austin who was a wireless operator with 207 Squadron. RAF. We are at [unclear] in Faulconbridge, New South Wales and it’s the 16th June 2016. Good morning Rex. Perhaps we can start by, with your birth date and where you were born.
RA: 4th of January 1924 at Werribee, Victoria.
JH: Thank you. Maybe we can talk about your early life and I’m interested to see if there is any family history in the First World War.
RA: Yes. My father was, served with the 8th Light Horse in the Middle East. I don’t know too much about it because he very rarely discussed anything about the First World War. However, following on from that my father transferred from the army to the Australian Flying Corps which subsequently became the Royal Australian Air Force on, I think from the date of about the 1st of April 1921.
JH: That’s interesting. So he would be one of the originals in that. In the RAAF.
RA: Yes.
JH: So your father, did he have a country, he grew up in the country. On the land. How come he ended up in the light horse?
RA: I’ve no idea why he ended up in the Light Horse. He was not a country boy. The best I know is that after leaving school he studied accountancy. Became an accountant but he was, when he joined the army he was living at East Kilda in Melbourne.
JH: So you grew up in Victoria. Tell me a bit about your early life and your schooling for example.
RA: Well, I did my primary school at Werribee. I started high school at Williamstown in Victoria but after three months I was taken to England as a school boy. My father was appointed in the staff of Australia House in London. He was at that time a squadron leader. And I did two and a half years to three years as a [unclear] at Frays College, Uxbridge. Whilst we were living at a place called Ruislip in Middlesex. Father took ill over whilst we were over there and we came home in 1938. Yes. ’38. Thereafter, I attended Brighton Grammar School in Melbourne and finished my schooling there.
JH: So, Rex, did you, did you join up from school or did you leave school?
RA: No.
JH: And had a job somewhere.
RA: I left school in 1941. Joined the Commercial Bank of Australia as a bank clerk. On my 18th birthday I filled in an application form to join aircrew in the RAAF, and on the 17th of July 1942 I was called up for full time duty.
JH: So the fact that your father was, was in the RAAF may have influenced your, your decision to go for the air force rather than the army say.
RA: Yes, certainly. That was very true. I, as a small child used to see my father on parade at Point Cook and Laverton where he was officer in charge of field troops and I used to think to myself one of these days I would like to be in the same position. So I had a long term, long standing desire to be in the air force, and my father supported that thought.
JH: He would have been very proud I should imagine when you, when you did sign up. So, Rex tell us a little bit about the training you went through in Australia before you set sail for the UK.
RA: I went to number 1 ITS. Initial Training School at Somers in Victoria. When I graduated from there I was advised my co-ordination was such that I couldn’t be a pilot, and I was given the opportunity of being a wireless operator, air gunner or a navigator or an air gunner. I chose wireless. My father was very disappointed when I advised him that I could not be a pilot. Extremely disappointed. Anyway, he no doubt organised that I would go to Parkes to do my wireless training. Turn it off.
JH: Well that’s ok. We’ll carry on. But I think everybody, from what I hear, and my father was no exception, wanted to be a pilot. Dad ended up being a navigator. So that’s, that’s what, what he did. So, so Parkes was wireless operating training plus gunnery combined.
RA: No. No. Gunnery was at Port Pirie in South Australia. We did nine months as I recall. Nine months training as wireless operators. Then six weeks at Port Pirie to do gunnery training.
JH: And it’s interesting combination of wireless operator and gunnery. Did you actually get involved in any gunnery in operations?
RA: No. No. I followed through as wireless operator both in Australia and in the UK purely on wireless as a wireless operator. After I was shot down I was re-mustered to signaller and awarded the S-Wing rather than having a wireless badge on my, on my sleeve, and a AG brevet.
JH: Ok. So let’s, so you passed, passed out and where did you set sail for the UK? Was it from Sydney or from Melbourne?
RA: From Sydney. From Sydney. We were transported by train from Melbourne to Sydney. Stayed at Sydney for about three weeks before we embarked on a ship for North America.
JH: Was this like a parade down George Street to the ship? How did it happen?
RA: Yes. Yes. It was a parade. A formal parade down to the ship. We embarked on a ship which was an American ship called the [pause] that I can’t remember.
JH: Was it a passenger ship?
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: It was a troop ship which had brought Americans out. American soldiers out to Australia. We travelled to St Francis Cove. Crossed America by rail. And ended up at a camp called Camp Myles Standish. Myles Standish in Taunton, Massachusetts. And we stayed there for about a month before we loaded on another troop ship. I think, I think it was the Queen Elizabeth, to travel across the Atlantic. Six days as I recall and landed at Greenock in the UK and travelled by train from there down to Brighton, UK. And I stayed there for about a month.
JH: What sort of training was involved in Brighton for that month?
RA: Nothing. Nothing. No training at all.
JH: Square bashing.
RA: Square.
JH: Yeah.
RA: I suppose it was square bashing but [laughs] like all good things they started off with a large numbers of uniformed people marching down the road and as the march kept going more and more people disappeared off the road, back of the troop. So that it ended up with a few blokes marching down all, all with a drill instructor looking at them. The others had disappeared to the local pubs.
JH: Not to the pub. Yes. What was the, one of the favourite pubs you remember there?
RA: I don’t remember.
JH: Yes.
RA: I don’t remember.
JH: Yeah. Yes. So then at some stage you got assigned to further training unit.
RA: Yes. I was posted to —
JH: Was it West Freugh?
RA: West Freugh.
JH: West Freugh. Yes.
RA: To do pre-OTU. I think, I think by memory we were there about a month and we were then posted to Market Harborough to do OTU on Wellington aircraft, Wellington 1C. I crewed up at OTU. My pilot was an Australian. The rest of the crew were English men.
JH: Can you remember much about your crew? Did you crew up very quickly?
RA: Quite quickly.
JH: Or did it take some days?
RA: Oh some days but it was relatively quickly.
JH: Yes. Did you know your pilot beforehand?
RA: No. No. I did not. He was on Number 26 Pilot’s Course in the Royal Australian Air Force. He was a sergeant.
JH: What was his name?
RA: Kevin McSweeney.
JH: Kevin McSweeney. Yes.
RA: We also crewed up with a rear gunner by the name of Reg Tice. T I C E.
JH: Rear gunner.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes. A rear gunner. And the navigator was Fred Holmwood. H O L M W O O D. Who was —
JH: Reg Holmwood. Yeah.
RA: He was a pilot officer. McSweeney was a sergeant. I don’t think there’s much to say about the training at the —
JH: Yes.
RA: At the OTU. There was one incident we, McSweeney, on one of the early solo trips he overshot and we ended up in a turnip field off the aerodrome. And I was virtually unhurt except that I caught a boot in the teeth when I went forwards. McSweeney was alright and he was climbing up through the pilot’s escape hatch and he happened to accidently kick me in the teeth.
JH: Any damage to the props?
RA: The aircraft, I believe was a right off.
JH: Really. Yes. So, so from there you went to do a conversion course.
RA: Went to Wigsley to do —
JH: Yes.
RA: A conversion course.
JH: Wigsley.
RA: Wigsley. RAF station at Wigsley.
JH: Yes.
RA: Where it was on Stirlings.
JH: Yes.
RA: Then to, to Lanc Finishing School.
JH: Where was that? The Lanc Finishing School.
RA: I don’t know. I can’t remember that.
JH: Doesn’t matter.
RA: Syerston. Syerston.
JH: Oh yes. Did you, did you do any nickel raids part of that?
RA: I didn’t. The pilot did. Pardon me. By nickel raids you probably refer to —
JH: Dropping leaflets. Yes.
RA: No
JH: Yes. Part of the training.
RA: No.
JH: Yes. Yeah. I’m interested to see how you were assigned to a squadron. In your case it was 207 Squadron.
RA: I’ve no idea.
JH: You just come, just the assignment came and —
RA: Posting.
JH: The posting. Yeah.
RA: On the conclusion of the Lanc Finishing School.
JH: Yes.
RA: We were posted to —
JH: East Spilsby was it?
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yeah.
JH: Yes. So what was it like? So this was ’44.
RA: Three.
JH: 1943.
RA: Yeah. About ‘43/44.
JH: Yes ok. So tell me a little about what it was like arriving at East Spilsby. Your first days on the squadron as a new crew.
RA: I don’t remember anything special about it.
JH: Yeah.
RA: I think we were one of a couple of crews that arrived. By that time McSweeney had been commissioned as a pilot officer. And as far as I was personally concerned I fitted in to the signals empire if you can call it. And that was that.
JH: Yes. And how long after was your first operation, real operation after you arrived at East Spilsby?
RA: Well our first operation was the last of the Berlin trips in March ’44. Yes. March ’44.
JH: So your first operation was Berlin.
RA: Yes.
JH: That, that’s being thrown in to the deep end to me.
RA: It was.
JH: Tell me, tell me can you remember much about that operation?
RA: No. No. No. I can remember that the old bomb aimer called, ‘Go around again. We’ve missed the aiming point.’ And we turned around and flew against the —
JH: The stream.
RA: The stream.
JH: Yes.
RA: And turned back and bombed from, from the aiming point. The crew were very annoyed with McSweeney for doing this, however good. We fortunately got away with it.
JH: Yes. Talking before, you, I think you did thirteen operations before you were shot down and you mentioned one operation. One raid to Nuremberg.
RA: That was —
JH: I —
RA: Berlin was the first trip.
JH: Yes.
RA: Essen was the second trip. I think, if I remember rightly Berlin, we the Command suffered something like seventy odd losses.
JH: On the second Berlin raid. Yeah.
RA: On the Berlin raid we were on.
JH: Oh yes.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
RA: The second trip was Essen and I think if I remember rightly it was only about forty, something like that, aircraft lost on that raid, which I felt was improving. The third trip was to Nuremberg and of course it’s well known that there was about a hundred aircraft lost on that raid. At that stage I felt to myself well Berlin, Essen, Nuremberg — you can’t find three worse targets than that to go to, so I was very confident. And I think that the crew, that we were very confident. We were success.
JH: Successful. Yes.
RA: In completing our tour.
JH: Yes. One thing I was going to ask was on a raid like that as a wireless operator were you able to hear other crews talking?
RA: No. No. You should stuck, stuck purely and only to your own messages.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yeah.
JH: Yes. Were you able to see that, you know, the raid, it wasn’t a good raid. Things were going. Going badly. Did you get a feel for that on an operation?
RA: The Nuremberg trip?
JH: Yes.
RA: Yes. We did. We were aware that other aircraft were being shot down but I think we were so — [pause]
JH: So, what? Busy on your —
RA: Yes.
JH: On your —
RA: Looking after ourselves.
JH: Yes. Yeah. Were you in the mid-stream? Towards the front of the stream?
RA: Towards the front as I remember.
JH: Yes. Yes.
RA: But we certainly saw a lot of what we thought at that stage were German Scarecrows. We’d been told about them and I don’t think it sank in ‘til we got back to base that the raid had been so costly in those, the thought of losing so many aircraft.
JH: Rex, I’ve heard about these Scarecrows. What was that?
RA: I have an idea, knowing what I know now, that there was no such thing as Scarecrows. The briefing was that there was no mention of them other than the fact that when we came back the intelligence people sort of pooh-poohed the idea that they were aircraft going down all the time but it was. We were led to believe that they were Scarecrows. The Germans had some way or other of making it look as though —
JH: I see. Kind of simulating a Lancaster exploding in mid-air.
RA: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: Ok yes, yes. Are there any other operations? I’m going to ask you about the operation when you were shot down in a minute. But apart from Nuremberg are there any other operations that —?
RA: No.
JH: You’d like to mention.
RA: No. No. No.
JH: Ok. Well, that’s amazing that your survived a raid like that. Tell me, tell me what happened on your thirteenth operation.
RA: The operation was completely normal until we got hit. We were attacked by a fighter in the starboard wing which sounded to me as though it was [pause] if it rained on a tin roof. That was the sound of it. It turned out to have been a German fighter. Came up from underneath. He was not sighted by anybody in the crew.
JH: Was this the upward firing?
RA: Yes.
JH: Jazz music.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes. Yes.
RA: But we didn’t know that at the time of course.
JH: Of course. You can’t see it.
RA: No.
JH: Yes, yes that’s right.
RA: But near the rear gunner, Norman, the mid-upper gunner gave no warning at all. And it was only a few seconds later that the captain of the aircraft realised that we were fatally hit and called on the crew to get out.
RA: Were you over the target or on the way?
JH: On the way in.
RA: Yes. What was the target that night?
JH: I think it was Brunswick.
RA: Brunswick. Yes. Brunswick.
JH: Anyway, the navigator — I was busily operating the wireless set at the time and the navigator told me get out and get out quick. So I proceeded to, in accordance with the normal evacuation drill, get out. I got out of the aircraft.
RA: You had your chute on you or did you have to find.
JH: I used to fly with my parachute by hand. At hand.
RA: Yes.
JH: So I strapped it on.
RA: Yes.
JH: Ran down the back over the main spar and ran down to the back. Saw the mid-upper gunner and the rear gunner were both exiting the aircraft. So I locked the back door and the aircraft opened and persuaded [laughs] persuaded, prepared to evacuate. And that’s what I did.
RA: Something you probably didn’t actually practice was jumping out of a Lancaster.
JH: Oh we used to I’ll say this, McSweeney used to make us practice evacuating the aircraft.
RA: Yes.
RA: When, whilst we were on the ground.
JH: Yes.
RA: But I would think it was that part of the training — I can’t recall how, how many seconds it took to get out but it was very short and sharp.
JH: Yes. Did you, all the crew manage to get out of the aircraft?
RA: No. The engineer and the bomb aimer were both killed. I identified the bodies the following morning and it appeared to me that they were both in the nose of the aircraft when they hit the ground.
JH: Yes. So, so you landed. This is at night.
RA: Yes.
JH: Were you picked up straight away?
RA: No. I was picked up. I broke my ankle when I landed. I didn’t realise it at the time but it didn’t take long for the pain to get heavy. I stayed where I was in a ploughed field and it was a misty night I think. I do recall light rain. I pulled the parachute over the top of my head and said I knew I couldn’t do anything. I tried to walk. I couldn’t. All I could do was hop. I disposed of my escape kit by burying it as much as I could in the furrows of a field. When I accepted I would not be able to escape. I pulled the parachute overhead to keep as dry as I could.
JH: It was raining that night.
RA: Raining gently.
JH: Yes.
RA: You know, that misty sort of rain.
JH: Yes. Had you seen any of the other chaps?
RA: No. No.
JH: You were on your own.
RA: On my own.
JH: Yes. So what — what did you think to do? Obviously you couldn’t get away.
RA: Yeah.
JH: Were you going to walk into the nearest village?
RA: I couldn’t walk.
JH: Yeah.
RA: I couldn’t walk.
JH: Yeah.
RA: All I could do was hop.
JH: Yes.
RA: Which I found out pretty quickly.
JH: Yes.
RA: At dawn the following morning three adults arrived. They were armed with rifles or shotguns of some sort. Two with a youth who also had a gun.
JH: Did you carry a revolver yourself?
RA: No.
JH: Yeah.
RA: Completely unarmed.
JH: Yes.
RA: The adults treated me such that they told me to get up and I got up on my right leg. Then they motioned me to go with them which I did. I hopped across this ploughed field and at the side of the field was a pathway, a dirt pathway. And there was a bicycle there. And so they told me to use the bicycle. So I hopped along with them with me and they took me to a house that was a collection of three or four, four or five houses adjoining the field I’d landed in and then they took me in to a house there. They knocked up the owners and they put me in to the house. The lady of the house was kindness personified. She, she asked me how old I was and I said I was twenty. She chatted a bit but in a language I didn’t understand. Took me to the kitchen. Stoked the fire up. The kitchen fire up. Put a chair, my leg on a chair and I sat there until such time as the police arrived.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
RA: Subject to the viewing of every bloody interplay near and far I think. The farmer had avoided the girl who was fourteen or fifteen and they chatted around me a bit too.
JH: Yes.
RA: I I had so many American dollars on me in my money belt. So I gave them American money. They were thrilled to bits.
JH: Yes.
RA: I gather that they had a uncle somebody or other, somebody or other who was an American.
JH: Yes. Yes.
[Telephone ringing]
JH: I’ll just pause it here.
[Recording paused]
JH: Ok. Back again. Rex, we were talking about your being captured and was in a village. What, what happened next?
RA: After some time the police arrived. They took over proceedings. Screaming out. In particular one fellow in a very smart uniform screamed at me and the people around me who were [unclear] me and I was then put into a to a VW type vehicle. The two men guarding me — one drove and the other one sat facing me. He was in the front seat. Sat facing me with a large revolver pointed straight at my head. I pushed the revolver out of the way on one occasion. All I gained out of that was a large number of words which I again couldn’t understand that I was led to believe that if I did it again he’d pull the trigger. So I didn’t do it again. I was taken back to the sight of the major part of the aircraft and motioned to look at the two bodies and say who they were, which I did. Then I was taken to what I understand was the Meppen night fighter base. Taken by car and put me in to the local jail. The air force base. I remained there for two or three days. They treated me. It was quite ok. Wasn’t quite up to the standard of the Savoy or [unclear] but at least they, whilst I didn’t get my leg treated in any form at least I was able to have something to eat and I think I probably slept a bit. I then stayed there and they gathered up aircrew from both the American and the Brits.
JH: Including some of your crew.
RA: Including my rear back gunner. Rear gunner. Navigator. That’s all.
JH: So four of you.
RA: Four of us.
JH: Yes.
RA: And we were taken to the railway station and under guard put on the train to what turned out to be Dulag Luft. The interrogation centre.
JH: This is in Frankfurt is it?
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yeah.
JH: Tell me a little bit about what it was like to [pause] to suffer the interrogation.
RA: The interrogator was a well-dressed German. He spoke perfect.
JH: Was he Luftwaffe or Gestapo?
RA: No. Military uniform. So I guess Luftwaffe. And initially started in solitary confinement and you stay there for four or five days but the person who interrogated me [pause] claimed, when I said, I admitted I was an Australian. [unclear]. But I said I was a student but he claimed that he had lived in Melbourne and knew where I lived because he’d been a wool buyer at some stage or other in his life. And believe it or not he actually mentioned the school I went to and told me where it was.
JH: My goodness.
RA: And he was quite friendly. Gave me a cigarette. To every question he asked I said, ‘I’m sorry sir. I’m not permitted to say.’ ‘ I’m sorry sir. I’m not permitted to say,’ and he told me that, obviously my ankle was pretty badly swollen at this stage. He looked at it and said, ‘Oh we’ll treat that. You tell us something. We’ll swap some knowledge,’ and I said, ‘Sir, I’m sorry. I’m not permitted to say.’ In the end he turned around and said, ‘For a so-called educated man,’ — boy, he’d called me, ‘For a so called educated boy you don’t know very much, Austin.’ Piss off, attitude. I never did get my ankle treated or my leg treated by them at all and I spent about seven or eight days in solitary. Then all of a sudden together with the two other — no. One other member of the crew. We were taken out and moved on to billets subsequently to Balaria.
JH: So that was the next trip. To Sagan.
RA: Yes.
JH: In what is now in Poland or Silesia.
RA: Yeah.
JH: Did you know where you were going? Did they tell you where you were going?
RA: No. I had no idea. No idea.
JH: Yes. So, so you ended up in the railway station at Sagan.
RA: Yes.
JH: And Stalag Luft iii and you went to the Balaria compound.
RA: Yes.
JH: Which is the other side of the town.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: That’s the story.
JH: Yes. Well as an aside my father was, was there at the same time as you. At Balaria.
RA: Yes.
JH: So, so, this was — what? What date was that, going, going into Balaria?
RA: Well, I was shot down on the 22nd of May.
JH: Yes.
RA: And I think.
JH: In ’44.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: I think it was about the 1st of June.
JH: Yes.
RA: That I ended up in there.
JH: Yes.
RA: In Balaria.
JH: What did you think of the camp when you got there?
RA: I think my, my reaction was thank God I’m safe.
JH: Yes. And I believe it was extended at some point.
RA: Yes.
JH: Was it full up when you got there?
RA: I don’t know. I honestly don’t know.
JH: Yes.
RA: We were six blokes in a room to start. That became eight very soon after. And remained at eight until we marched out in January ’45.
JH: Yes. So your hut-mates. Were, were they English or were a mixture?
RA: No.
JH: Of Aussies, Canadians.
RA: No. No. They were all Englishmen.
JH: I think this was after the Great Escape.
RA: Yes.
JH: Would that be correct?
RA: Yes.
JH: So. And we all know what happened there so I’m guessing but you can tell me there weren’t that many escape activities going on at Balaria.
RA: I don’t think so.
JH: Yes. The reading I’ve done I haven’t heard of any.
RA: No.
JH: Yeah. So you were, you were there for what, about a year?
RA: Yeah.
JH: And —
RA: Well, we marched out of Balaria on the 28th of May err 28th of January.
JH: Yes. So the Russian front. You could probably hear the guns. Would that be correct? The Russian front.
RA: Yes.
JH: Advancing from the east. And so you just got like a few hours notice to pack up and —
RA: Got off to all false starts. Word went out, I think I’m right, when I say word went out we would be leaving at 8 o’clock at night. Finally we left at 2 in the morning. Something like that.
JH: During one of the worst winters they’ve experienced. So what sort of things did you put together for the Long March at such short notice?
RA: My rear gunner and I got a bench type seat about six feet. Yeah, six feet long. Turned it upside down. Said, ‘Right we’ll use that.’
JH: As a sledge.
RA: As a sledge. And we did that. What we did in fact, put what clothing we could keep on the sledge and off we went. We tore up some of my old shirts that I had. Cancel that comment. We tore up some of my shirts, they weren’t old, and to use as a pulling rope and we found that quite satisfactory. We got rid of that sledge when the thaw set in on the snow.
JH: Yes. So you, you had a stash of food you could put into the sledge.
RA: Each man was given one Red Cross parcel when we marched out.
JH: Yes.
RA: So we had two Red Cross parcels put on this. Reg Tice, who was our rear gunner. I made out was thirty five years of age, ex-royal navy seaman and he said that on the march I would probably get angry at him so he would look after our food. He would ration.
JH: Rationed it. Yeah.
RA: He would ration the food and that’s what we did. So he took over responsibility for that.
JH: Rex, did the whole camp at Balaria march out as one long column?
RA: Yeah.
JH: Or they split it up in to batches.
RA: One long column. As far as I know, one long column. Group Captain MacDonald moved up and down the length. There was a vehicle there. A cart which the Germans had their belongings on. And I understand that a view with, in their view beyond endurance you would be able to pack your stuff on the cart.
JH: So they did. The POWs that were suffering. Not keeping up.
RA: Yeah.
JH: They did look after them and put them in the support vehicle.
RA: I think so.
JH: Yes. Yeah. So, so I believe you stayed at various villages along the way towards Spremberg across the border.
RA: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: And sleeping in barns. Would that be correct?
RA: Yes. Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yes.
JH: Was, was there a famous story about a goose belonging to a German officer?
RA: Yes. I I only heard it second hand.
JH: Yes.
RA: I can’t. I wouldn’t like to comment on it.
JH: Ok. Yes.
RA: I heard that the German officer had this goose and they purloined it and cooked it.
JH: Within minutes I gather.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
RA: And the march was before we went on the march I was asked by the doctor if I thought I could stand it and I said, ‘Yeah.’ Because they were weeding out the people who were so sick that they were couldn’t stand the march. I reckoned on it, at the time I was but fair enough. I could stand it. And it turned out I could.
JH: Yes.
RA: In fact, to be honest with you I think I did better than the older blokes in terms of being able to look after myself.
JH: Yes. What other memories have you got of that march?
RA: Bloody cold.
JH: It was one of the worst winters wasn’t it, yeah?
RA: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: What was the feeling amongst you and your comrades. Was it you felt that you were heading home or you were a bit apprehensive with the Russians breathing down your neck.
RA: I think, I think the general, general consensus would be, ‘Come on Joe. Catch up with us.’
JH: Yes. Yes. So you ended up in Spremberg, which is a rail centre.
RA: Head.
JH: Rail head. And I think you were destined for Luckenwald camp.
RA: Yeah.
JH: But I gather you — that was delayed. Your departure to Luckenwald. What happened in Spremberg?
RA: I think we were just delayed being put in the cattle trucks. And then we ended up by arriving at Luckenwald at bloody 2 in the morning, it was raining. And then we were kept outside the camp. We weren’t allowed to go in for a couple of hours. Which is very uncomfortable, you know. Buggered.
JH: I gathered from my father Luckenwald was not exactly the Hilton. Would that be right?
RA: Yeah [laughs] that’s an understatement. The place was filthy. Absolutely filthy. The three tiered beds were not too good and the food was very far between. Very few and far between. Yes.
JH: What about, tell me what happened when you were liberated at Luckenwald. What happened?
RA: Nothing. The Russians arrived. And they drove, drove their tanks through the wire. Barbed wire. And everything was all quiet.
JH: Had, had the Germans —
RA: Taken off.
JH: Taken off.
RA: Yeah.
JH: The day before or that morning?
RA: No. The night before.
JH: The night before.
RA: Yeah. Yeah. During the night before.
JH: Yes.
RA: There was one occasion when the camp was strafed by a German aircraft. I don’t know that anyone was hurt. Again, I didn’t see anything but anyway we were — what should I say? In limbo.
JH: Yes. So, so how long did it take before you finally crossed the American lines and heading for home?
RA: I’m not certain. Your memory plays tricks on these. I think, I think it would be ten days.
JH: Yes.
RA: The Americans put through a convoy of vehicles to take us out and the Russians refused to let us go. So that a lot of the blokes took off on their own. We weren’t supposed to do that. In any case they ended the war. I was in hospital. In one of the beds that was called a hospital. I had yellow jaundice. And I was feeling pretty sick so my rear gunner took off. And he was one of the ones that took off on his own.
JH: Yes. You stayed put.
RA: I stayed.
JH: In the hospital. Yes. Yeah. So eventually you were repatriated in — I think they called it Operation Exodus.
RA: Yeah.
JH: With the, with the Lancasters coming over.
RA: Yes, yes, yes.
JH: And where did you end up in the UK from that? Brighton. Was it Brighton?
RA: Yes.
JH: Yes.
RA: Back at Brighton.
JH: Yes.
RA: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
RA: I don’t even know the name of the field we landed in.
JH: Yes.
RA: I can’t. I don’t think I ever did know. But I went out to Brussels from the American. The Americans took us by Dakota to Brussels and then from Brussels I went to, in a Lanc back to the UK and then by vehicle back down. Motor vehicle back to down Brighton. Now, I couldn’t tell you —
JH: Yes.
RA: The name of the airfield I landed back at in the UK.
JH: Yes. What about your trip back to Australia? I don’t know how long you were in Brighton but I guess you were assigned to one of the liners, coming back.
RA: Yeah. I came back on the Orion.
JH: Yes.
RA: Which was in August ’45.
JH: Yes.
RA: Being a warrant officer I didn’t have a cabin.
JH: Yes.
RA: Or anything like that. Half of the junior officers didn’t either. But we came back via the Panama Canal and my father met me at Melbourne Cricket Ground. We landed at Sydney and went overnight by train down to Melbourne. My dad and mum met me at the Spencer, as it was then, Spencer Street Railway Station.
JH: Yes.
RA: Dad was in uniform so we were, or I was, well looked after.
JH: I bet. Yeah.
RA: Dad was —
JH: Yeah.
RA: Dad was an air commodore at that stage.
JH: Air commodore.
RA: Yes. He was the AOC.
JH: Yes. He would have been very proud to have you back.
RA: I don’t think so. I don’t think so.
JH: No [laughs]
RA: Cut it out. Cut it out.
JH: I can cut that out. Yeah.
RA: No. I’ll tell you the story.
JH: If you want.
[recording paused]
JH: Yes. We’re back again. Rex, let’s, let’s finish off the interview by briefly talking about your life after, after you came back. I gather you worked in a bank for some, briefly, and then with another company. Tell me about how it came about that you re-joined the RAAF.
RA: I missed the RAAF when I accepted retirement straight after the war. Missed it very much. I was employed at various jobs. None of which gave me the satisfaction I had had whilst I was in the service. So I re-joined as trainee aircrew. Finished my training and subsequently took a re-muster to [unclear] officer.
JH: In Singapore?
RA: No.
JH: Was this?
RA: No. This was after Singapore.
JH: Yes.
RA: In 1957 I transferred out of flying duties to be a supply officer. I deeply regretted it initially. However, once I was settled into my new career I found it very rewarding and I got a lot of personal satisfaction out of it.
JH: And you received your commission in 1954.
RA: I was commissioned in 1954 and shortly after I re-mustered to supply officer I got posted to Paris. I spent three years and eight months in Paris supporting the Mirage aircraft projects. Subsequent to that I was posted to Staff College. And then promoted finally in my last four years to group, to the rank of group captain.
JH: And by the time you went to Paris you’d married and a family.
RA: Yes. I was married with two children.
JH: Yes.
RA: One eleven. One seven. The other one was eleven. And both boys have subsequently done very well for themselves. One finally retired out as an Air Vice Marshal the other one as a check group captain with Qantas.
JH: And he was a fighter pilot. Your younger son. At one stage.
RA: My second son was a Mirage pilots which is —
JH: Yeah.
RA: The pilot one.
JH: Well it’s a great connection with the RAAF. Your family. Right from your father, yourself and your sons. Rex, I think it’s been a fantastic interview. I’ve really enjoyed hearing your story. Especially about your time after you were shot down. And one thing I’d like to ask you is what do you — what are your thoughts on the treatment of Bomber Command after the war? And also, you know, did you have any strong feelings about the area bombing tactics?
RA: I’ll take the second one first. As far as I was concerned I had a job of work to do and I did that the best of my ability. I have no regrets about any aspect of that bombing. Bombing offensive. On the first point —
JH: This is the treatment of Bomber Command. In other words lack of a campaign medal.
RA: I don’t know that, I don’t know that I have feelings one way or the other. I never gave it a thought.
JH: I think your logbook and your, what you did, you and your crew, speaks for it.
RA: Thank you.
JH: Rex. Thank you very much. Well said. The last questions and we’ll wind up here. Again, thank you very much for the interview.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Rex Alan Austin
Creator
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John Horsburgh
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-16
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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AAustinRA160616, PAustinRA1601
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:09:14 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
Poland
Germany--Berlin
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942-07-17
1943
1944
Description
An account of the resource
Rex Alan Austin was born in Werribee, Victoria in Australia on 4th of January 1924. Rex’s father served in World War One in the middle east and then transferred to the Australian Flying Corps, later known as the Royal Australian Air Force. Schooled in Australia and then Britain, Rex went back to Australia and joined the RAAF in July 1942. Rex talks about his initial training in Australia and his disappointment of not being able to become a pilot. After initial training he heads to Britain, via America. Rex then describes his posting to an OTU and the being crewed up, describes a miscalculation and landing in a turnip field. Goes to RAF Wigsley for a conversion course and then Syerston for Lancaster finishing school. Rex was then posted to East Spilsby to start flying operations to Berlin, Essen and Nuremberg. Goes on to talking about operating over Brunswick and being shot down. Rex had a broken ankle so waited to be picked up, and was subsequently interrogated by German military personnel and eventually ended up in Stalag Luft iii. Rex and others were marched out to Spremberg for Luckenwald camp. Russian forces arrived at the camp, and eventually Rex landed in Brighton and then headed back to Australia by ocean liner. Retired after the war but he re-joined as a supply officer. Rex talks of marriage and family, and having two sons, one retired as an Air Vice Marshall and the other as a check group captain with Quantas. The interview finishes with Rex’s opinions of the legacy and treatment of Bomber Command.
207 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
Lancaster Finishing School
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Spilsby
RAF Syerston
RAF West Freugh
RAF Wigsley
Scarecrow
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 3
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/895/11135/AIndgeRC180131.1.mp3
0f432d9f2b49c42322b8456882eab8c6
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Title
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Indge, Ronald
Ronald Charles Indge
R C Indge
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ron Indge (b. 1924, 2203016 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator with 578 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-01-31
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Indge, RC
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DE: So this is an interview with Ron Indge. My name is Dan Ellin. The interview is for the International Bomber Command Centre. It is the 31st of January 2018 and we are in Mr Indge’s home in Woodhall Spa. So, Mr Indge could you start by telling us a little bit about where you were born and your early life, please?
RI: Yes. Well, well, I was born in Worksop and my early life was spent very happily I believe. A small family. My father had a business and life was very good to be very honest. I became very active in sports, particularly tennis and I met all sorts of people that all bore relevance later in life into the RAF. I perhaps ought to start by the end of the school time was Grammar School and I was in a mixed form in a Grammar School in Worksop. There were three forms in every, there was a male, female and a mixed form. I was lucky enough to be in the mixed form. And I think in 1939 which is when I left the school, the grammar school employment was very, very difficult to find or at the least employment I was looking for and, however I’ll now refer to a book that was written by a friend of mine. This chapter is called, “Early life.” It gives you the date of birth, and it reads as follows. “There was no work available. He wanted to work in a solicitor’s office or something similar. After he had not found work after two or three weeks his father found him a job as an apprentice joiner. He became a bound apprentice. The only way he could escape the apprenticeship was by becoming a sub mariner or by flying.” You could only break, that was a static thing. “Ron’s friend — ” now, I had a friend who, we used to tennis together most nights when it was suitable. He decided to volunteer for the Royal Air Force so I went with him to Sheffield on a Saturday and we both joined up at the same time. Neither of our parents knew until the Monday what we had done. “Ron was seventeen and three quarters years old at the time and felt some guilt but it was going to become more important as it got later. Ron says he joined,’ I think this is on one of the one in your, anyway, “Ron says that he joined the RAF for the glamour.”
DE: Right.
RI: Which I’m sure you’ve already got on one of your —
DE: A lot of people did. Yeah.
RI: I think that. Yeah. An important thing in early life which affected my life particularly was it was decided that I should learn to play a musical instrument. This was my parents. After, after a year of piano lessons my father decided that enough was enough and a waste of time and money so that was the standing. However, going up Gateford Road in Worksop which you know there was a furniture shop called Baldry’s , and in the window was a piano accordion and up there I saw this and it was fourteen pounds. What on earth made me so keen it was so I went in and a had twelve pounds in the bank at that stage. In the Yorkshire Penny Bank as it was then. And I withdrew the twelve quid. I went up and I got Arthur Baldry who owned the store and had a long talk to him and in the finish he agreed to sell me the thing for twelve quid. So that was how, that’s how the piano accordion business started. I got a fella to come and give me a few lessons to start with and it was sort of a, I don’t know I think to be one of my grandchildren is in the musical industry but I think to be in the music you’ve got to be keen anyway. I think it’s got to be. So it became for me and there are letters here which I’ll let you see that relates. I’d better not show you right now but I will. There is a letter that relates to one of the concert parties I was in anyway. But I’ll show you that that’s a letter of thanks as regards that. The thing’s falling to pieces. Right. That more or less covers the entrance in to the RAF and and to why I went and —
DE: So was, was —
RI: One can only imagine what my parents and my employer at the time thought when they found I’d volunteered to fly.
DE: Yeah. Was it, was it deferred entrance or did you go in straight away?
RI: That was a deferred entrance. Yes. I went into the ATC. Just for a few months.
DE: Right.
RI: And then of course we all went to an Aircrew Receiving Centre in London. That’s where we all joined in the eventuality.
DE: What was that like?
RI: Well, it was, it was good really because we used to eat in the London Zoo. They marched us from about 6 o’clock in the morning out of the billets and they were massive blocks of flats we were in. What they would be like now I’m not quite sure but they were beautiful places and I don’t know where all the people had been moved from but the Aircrew Receiving Centre was full of people of course. And London was being bombed at the time but however as I said we used to march to the, what was the old London Zoo and still is and we ate in their restaurant. They catered for us down there. There’s, I’ve got quite a lot of details about the Halifax which —
DE: Can we, yeah, can we talk a little more about reception and training before we move on to, to Halifaxes?
RI: Well, yes but I think probably that’s very commonplace for, that was, the training was universal really, was it not? And —
DE: Where did you train?
RI: I got drifted all over the place. I had eyesight trouble. I wasn’t, like everybody else I was going to be a pilot and all this carry on, and that. However, when I was examined I have and funnily enough my son’s got the same problem when I try and put my, I don’t know if it still does but when I put one finger to my nose the eyes, the eyes go in but one won’t stay there. It goes back. So they wanted all sorts and so I agreed then to change the entry into being a wireless op which is what I did at Yatesbury. The wireless school was at Yatesbury in those days. Near Calne in Wiltshire. So that’s, that went on there and I came out of that quite successfully and then the question came of where we got sent. I got sent all over the place funnily enough. I was, I even got up to Stranraer and then further up into Elgin in Scotland. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what that’s like there. And so that initial training was really in some ways it was I suppose was pleasurable because we got a fair amount of liberty and the hours in the rooms were fairly long but you have to try and remember that our ages at eighteen, life was very different now to looking at age of ninety plus. So the values are entirely different at that age rather than the values that we have now. There was no thought of long livity in those days where there is now. We all think about trying to live longer now but that didn’t happen in those days. We, we just took things as it was and made the best of a bad job and from becoming boys just having not long left school we became men very, very quickly. Going down to the boozer and fraternizing and things that we probably hadn’t done at home. I certainly hadn’t. But that’s the sort of thing we did at Yatesbury. We used to go down the pub in Calne where, famous for sausages of course. So that was the training really. And you passed out there with three stripes. Then of course you immediately it tended to go to our heads a bit I think [laughs] because I remember we threatened that if we could find any of the corporals that had given us big stick we would make sure that they had to suffer. But the night we went away from Yatesbury we went down to Calne and we couldn’t find a corporal anywhere. So the PTIs got away with that very fortunately I think.
DE: I think they probably were expecting it. Yeah.
RI: That had happened before obviously. That wasn’t new to them. So that was training over really.
DE: Did you —
RI: Then the next thing really is crewing up I suppose. I suppose that’s, I can’t just remember where the hell I crewed up now. I can’t just remember. And I’ve no mark on that so I can’t remember.
DE: Did you, did you do Morse when you were at Yatesbury?
RI: Yes. Oh yes. Yes.
DE: How many words a minute?
RI: I can’t remember now [laughs] It becomes a, I just, I just cannot remember now. I really can’t.
DE: I’ve read about something called Morse headache.
RI: I never suffered with that. Some did get some Morse Madness I heard of. I think one or two did fall by the wayside. But of course that was commonplace I think, wasn’t it, during RAF training? Some people took to madness or near madness and things because there was a place near Sheffield where some aircrew bods used to get sent that they couldn’t deal with otherwise and, but that’s sort of in the memory I think to be very honest. So then the crewing up came and which I can’t just remember where the hell it was now. But I sort of then was going to be crewed up on Halifax which now seems to be, it’s very little heard of. When we talk to people these days about the Halifax some of them have never heard of it. They’ve only heard of a Lancaster. Or in the case of a fighter a Spitfire in the case of a Hurricane. But that’s life. So that really was the training and then the commencement, that was the commencement of, we did a lot of when we were crewed up we then did a lot of cross countries and a few, I think we did a few leaflet raids as well. I think, while we were, while we were still in the u/t, under training but we certainly did a lot of cross countries and long ones to Ireland and right back down into Yorkshire. Yeah. I think we were. I know we were now. The thought has come back. It was at Riccall. At Riccall where, where we crewed up, because there was a runway at Riccall just between some trees because we pranged an aircraft down there. In fact, I’ve still got part of it in one of the drawers in there because I pinched the clock out of it at the time which lead to a big inquest from the, they had the coppers came around to us in our billets at night trying to find who’d stolen it. Who’d stolen the clock out of the aircraft. So, they won’t prosecute me now. It’s too late [laughs]
DE: I think you’ll be alright now. Yeah. I hope so anyway.
RI: Yeah. But there’s bits of it in there. Yes. So that, that was training at Riccall and then we eventually got posted along to 578 Squadron and which is where it all started and all the RAF career really ended. Or at least that part of it did. So probably the flight that involved the crash isn’t really relevant at this stage is it?
DE: Oh, I think. Yes.
RI: Is it?
DE: If you want to tell us about it then, yeah.
RI: Is it?
DE: Yeah.
RI: Well, the flight was to Gelsenkirchen which was an oil refinery. By this stage then in ’44 they had, much to a lot of people’s disgust Bomber Harris had then thrown everything to the wind really. A lot of the raids that we took part in I think into the Ruhr particularly were done in daylight where they actually could have been done in the dark with a lot less loss of life I think. However, we pranged in in Gelsenkirchen but we were hit at the rear of the aircraft and the rear gunner was killed. We were going to, when we found out he was, he was dead we left him there but the idea originally was to get him out, put a ‘chute on him and chuck him down because we were only minorly damaged really but enough that we lost some control of the aircraft. So when we found out he was dead he was left in there and went down with the aircraft. Now, I landed. On my way down I heard a big tear and the parachute, obviously they’d been aiming at me and they’d hit the parachute. This was broad daylight of course. They’d hit the parachute and just torn one panel. I’d forgotten that they weren’t in, they were only in panels which of course was the safest. So I probably descended a little bit quicker than normal but I got down quite safely and landed about, I don’t know about as far as from here to the, to that hedge. I don’t know how far that is. Down at the bottom. And about that far away from that ack ack site.
DE: Just a matter of yards then.
RI: Yards really.
DE: Yeah.
RI: And they were, I couldn’t believe my eyes. They were all young kids. Or they seemed to me to be young kids on there and just two who, who were officers. And eventually [pause] this is not in here I don’t think. It’s just coming back to me now. Eventually they handed me over to the civilian police who along came a German copper, handcuffed me to a bike, took me down to the local village and locked me in a cell and came, and through the bars of the cell said, ‘Essen?’ Now I thought when he said, ‘essen’ I thought he was asking me if I’d flown on a trip to Essen and my imagination running wild I thought he must think we’d dropped bombs on Essen. Perhaps killed some of his family. So I shook my head and said, ‘No.’ Of course later on when I learned what essen was [laughs] I’d then refused all the forms of food so of course they didn’t give me any. So, so that was that. And then of course we all were sent then to this aircrew, I forget the name of that. That’s in here somewhere I think. But there was a centre. There’s a picture of the, of the bod in there I think somewhere, however we’ll find that.
DE: Dulag was it?
RI: Yes. No. No. That’s dulag. No. There was a reception centre for all aircrew where you were put in small cells and questioned at all hours of the sort of nights and things. But by 1944, in September ’44 there was a great, a lot of the Germans were beginning to think that they weren’t going to win the war and so perhaps the interrogation wasn’t as bad as it had been previously. I spent, I think I spent three weeks in there I think, and then we were transported by rail out of there to various camps. And in my case of course some of the, it was due to German guards really that I think we would have all lost our lives I think. Because in some of the, some of the major stations we went through on the line back to Stalag Luft 7 the lines were broken and so we ended up walking through one bit, some bits of some of the Ruhr towns and then re-trained and went further on down the line. But the, the Germans if it hadn’t have been for the guards I’m sure we would probably have been executed. I’m sure we would have been executed anyway. The bitterness was, from the, in the cities was terrible of course. So that was the story. And then I’m now then in in Stalag Luft 7. And in there this is where the piano accordion business all came to fruition on my part really. What happened was two or three days after I’d been in there I heard a chap playing the piano accordion so I made my way around. I found him. And there was also a bod there had bagpipes funnily enough [laughs] God above. However, I got [Leo Mackie] I remember the man’s name now. [Leo Mackie], I think. I don’t know what nationality he was, however he played the squeezebox so I had a word with him and he gave it me and I had a play on it. So he said, ‘What about we try and get some more squeezeboxes?’ I said, ‘Yeah. Let’s have a — ’ So we asked some of the Germans and they wouldn’t play ball with us. However, we got through to the Red Cross and eventually we got sent six brand new piano accordions which, which was brilliant for us and a drum kit and a double bass and a guitar I think. Yeah. That’s right. I think they’re all, and there’s a picture involved which I’ll come to shortly because how we got that picture was later on. So, it bore fruition in many ways in that we started it. We got together. We used to play every day all day of course. Nothing else to do really. Or walk around the camp which so that was really a saviour for me because whilst I’m loathe to admit it now we went out on several nights under supervision to the German officer’s headquarters and played for them to dance and [emphasis] they gave us a meal which of course was a big thing. I’m a bit ashamed to say that now but however it is part of the truth of the thing and of course as we said at eighteen, nineteen things look very different and self-preservation is, becomes very important. So that was that of which we’ve got a photograph which we’ve only recently acquired. It was sent to, it was sent to Hollis. This photograph on there of course there’s a conductor. He was a professional musician and the lady at the end of course was just another bod all dressed up in lady’s attire [laughs]. So we used to give concerts both in the camp and we occasionally went out to give the Germans, so that really was a really big help for my part in the prison camp. A big help. And then of course eventually 1945 arrived. We spent Christmas in the camp of course which really wasn’t to be [laughs] However, 1945 arrived and eventually we could hear gunfire at nights which was of course the Russians advancing. Well, there wasn’t, Stalag Luft 7 was a virtual new camp when I went in it because when I first went in it was hen huts. Really hen huts. That’s what it was. But it was rebuilt not long after I got there so it was very tolerable living conditions really. Nothing like as bad as some of the other people had suffered I think, because of course the SS had tried very hard to take over Luftwaffe camps but the, but their Air Force wouldn’t let them. So their camps were run naturally by, by Air Force personnel, or their Air Force personnel which was a lot easier I think to what I’ve been told from the SS run camps. The SS tried to run them but couldn’t. However, they marched out by being turfed out which I can refer to later on and it’s all detailed down in some of these books anyway. After, I think there was about fifteen hundred of us in Luft 7, and but when we got to a thousand we got a doctor. Our own doctor then who was an ex-kriegsgefangene, he was a prisoner as well. He was, he was in the army actually. And as we, as we assembled out to march away we didn’t know what we were going to be doing but that’s, obviously we’d heard the gunfire at night and particularly, and so the doctor addressed us and said, ‘Now, unless you’ve got adequate provision stacked by and or can speak fluent German don’t try and escape and don’t carry anything that you don’t really need. And I mean anything.’ Well, this part you won’t believe anyway but I’ll tell you. I had a piano accordion and I read through the line and I thought that’s out definitely. And it was snowing now, down to about, well the temperature on that part of the march was between minus twenty and minus forty. It did get to minus forty once. Minus thirty most of the time. So I tried to flog this piano accordion for anything I could get hold of and eventually I couldn’t sell it at all. I could not get, you are not going to believe this. It’s gospel truth. I couldn’t get one cigarette for it. So why we hated the Russians so much I don’t quite know. So I kicked it to pieces and so did several others as well. So, these were brand new squeeze boxes and so that was, that was the end of that part of the story really. And from then of course they marched us on the Long March which there’s been much reference made about and there’s all sort of information in these books which I’m sure some time you’d like to have a copy of or whatever. It was, we straggled, but we were told really not to escape because if you got tired and laid down you certainly wouldn’t, that would be the end of the story. How many [pause] quite a lot did escape or did elect to leave the, the throng. So how many actually died on that march I haven’t the faintest of ideas. All I know is that there were at least half were sort of in Stalag 3a at the end. But whether or not they’d lost their lost their lives or gone elsewhere I was never quite sure. The only thing that happened in Stalag 3a was that the Russians liberated us and the Americans came with transport to take us over the river and take us back home. But the Russians wanted an exchange of prisoners over the river. They wanted some of their prisoners bringing back in to their land and then they were going to exchange and let us go. So we were held five weeks in which time they never, they never gave us any rations. Nothing. We had to go down the village and so we went down there. And another story, down the village which is only just coming to light now. I used to go down with John Tregoning down the village to steal food and if you couldn’t get into the houses you just, the Russians were up and down there on motorbikes and things. Riding about like children they were actually. They hadn’t seen such things and they used to ride down there firing guns through the windows and all. It’s unbelievable really. But John and I, walking down the street in the local village could hear either ducks, geese or some form of livestock and we knocked on the door of this property and they wouldn’t let us in. So we got hold of a Russian eventually who came past on a motorbike. We waved him down and pointed to this noise and pointed to the [laughs] that we wanted, and so he broke the door down and got us I think it was a duck. I think. Certainly, yes I’m sure it was a duck and so then he chopped it’s head off and gave us the body. So we took that back. John and I took that back to the camp and had a feast. But that’s how we lived for those, for those few weeks and eventually it became a bit more liberal and so John and I whilst we were still waiting for transport we decided to make our own way and we eventually made our own way from 3a as far as Brussels from where we flew home. So that was the end of that story really.
DE: Yeah. You mentioned before we started the recording about a crew member and a sledge. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
RI: Well, that’s Johnny. It’s in that book. It’s in the story that John’s written isn’t it?
DE: Yeah.
RI: That was done because John Tregoning had gone on the march. John had gone off his legs and, but that’s all been, he wrote that of course actually when we were on the march. This is a copy that he wrote afterwards. John. John did. He’d gone off his legs and found it very difficult to walk and we were terrified we were going to lose him and he thought he was going to die as well. So we fabricated some form of sledge by like two lengths of timber. I think John got them somewhere one night when we were locked in a farm I think. We then lashed a sort of a sledge if you like. Whether you’d call it a sledge or, I really don’t know. All it was two lengths of timber lashed together with a space between. And we took, one of us, it took two of us we took one end of each length of timber if you like and walked, and John laid in that and then the back two ends we dragged because of course it was, it was snow laden so it was very slippery anyway. It wasn’t hard to pull in any case. It would have been had there been no snow but with it being snow and ice it was reasonably easy to pull. So we did that for several days for which John, I’ve visited him in Plymouth many times since, he’s dead now but he thanked me very much because he said, ‘I’d certainly would have died, Ron if you hadn’t have given me that, if you hadn’t dragged me on that sledge down there.’ So that was that bit really on the march. Really. Yeah. But as I said you have to remember how old we were. You know the thought nowadays was you can’t even imagine it now at forty let alone ninety but it was relatively easy speaking I suppose at that age because I was back home for my twenty first birthday, of course.
DE: Ok. What was, what was the journey to Brussels like?
RI: Alright. It was great really because we, we, I saw Glenn Miller’s band. We used to stay in various camps. They made us very welcome. It was funny really. They never sort of thought that we were traitors or anything. Or anything of that sort. Coming to traitors. That’s another thing I’ve completely forgotten about, which is also in these books anyway and in the official book as well. I might retrace my steps a minute then.
DE: Ok.
RI: In the prison camp when I first went in the senior NCO, there were no officers in that camp, I was in Stalag Luft 7. At that stage there were no officers. They were all NCOs and the senior NCO he’d, he’d sort of taken charge of the whole thing, and you were told to go and have a word with him. And so going and having a word with this, this body we were warned that there was a traitor among us and that, he told us who he was, what his name was and all the rest of it and to beware of this because he was going around with bogus Red Cross forms. Wanting you to know and all the rest of it. However, I did see this bod and one night. This was in the early, this was before the camp was, before the new camp was built. This was in the old camp we used to sit around at night and play cards or whatever we did. I think some form of game. We got hold of some game. We used to sit around in candle light. There was no electricity of course. In candle light. We’d made our own candles out of whatever you could. Anyway, we got made, made up candles. And this bod came in. Now, I think there was about six of us in this and so he tried to enter conversation and nobody would speak. None of us would speak to him. This sounds impossible but its gospel. So this bod came in and, and then he said, ‘I’ve got a photograph of my lady friend here.’ Now this is unbelievable. So he passed this photograph around and when he got to me I said, ‘Oh, I know that girl.’ He said, ‘I don’t think you do.’ I said, I said, ‘She’s one of a twin in Worksop.’ And so she was. So to go forward again now so that was that. But he used to disappear. He used to go to Berlin and he used, he was a big friend of Lord Haw Haw in those days. He used to go to Berlin. Disappear, come back all well dressed and all the rest of it. So we all knew but of course he was shunned in the camp. But at the end, of, at the end just at the end of our stay in the prison camp he disappeared from Luft 7. He disappeared altogether and that was the last I heard of him of course at that time. So we didn’t know whether he’d been killed or, we didn’t care either. That didn’t matter too much to be very honest. However, after the war was over and I was in Worksop I had a lady friend who, we were married afterwards, Joyce. And she worked in the Co -op. We used to walk, I used to take her for, I had about three months leave altogether. However, that’s another story. I used to slip down to the Co-op. We used to go out for lunch together of course. You’ve got to imagine I’m twenty then [laughs] So you can probably, I’ll leave that to your imagination. And we were walking up Gateford Road near to where I bought the piano accordion funnily enough. Walking up there and I see this bod coming down with a lady on his arm and it was him. That was in Gateford Road in Worksop. So I said to Joyce, ‘We don’t speak to this man. Walk past him.’ Which is what we did. I wouldn’t, he did try and speak but we wouldn’t speak and so that was the end of that. And that was the end of it so far as I was concerned except later on when I got a news bulletin he’d been, he’d got five years hard labour I think. Eventually when all this, because of course we all made reports about him at the end of the story and so he got five years hard labour. So that was, we all clapped or at least I clapped. That was after the war that was. I clapped hands then when I found that out of course. That was it. But so that was a great coincidence in there really. But as I say the piano accordion made my life that bit better more than most. Well, it did anyway. There’s no question about that. So that was very fortunate really. Yeah. It was. Yeah. So that ends the story really as regards the prison camp I think. I can’t think of anything else.
DE: You were just about to tell us about the walk to Belgium and what that was like.
RI: Oh yeah. It was, we were gobsmacked really because we used, John being a navigator and a very intelligent one at that he knew the way right enough and so we used to make our way from camp to camp. It sounds impossible now but that’s what, we actually went to one, we got in one American camp one night or one day rather and they made us awfully welcome. And food we’d never had for ages and Glenn Miller’s band was there. He wasn’t there of course because he was dead but his band were there. They played all day every day. That was wonderful that was really. I’ll never forget that really. Being in the musical business myself as well. Yeah. So that was that but we went from place to place. Army places and all sorts but from there we enjoyed it I suppose in a way because we’d eaten. We ate plenty you see and that sort of thing. Yeah. The only thing about the remnant of the outcome of all this was when I was in 3a I got yellow jaundice. Now, yellow jaundice in the hospital there all it was was a mattress on the floor and there were loads of us. It was caused by eating too much fats we think. Or I think. At the time when we were liberated we were liberated then and we were eating all these fats and that came one way or another. And so I had yellow jaundice. I was five days in there. Now, when I came home, I’m going on a bit now I’m back in the UK, having flown back from Brussels. I’m now back in the UK. Now, I’d never heard from my parents through that nine, ten months I was away. And I arrived, I get a leave warrant and I come, I’m coming home now with my kit and a leave warrant. I got a month’s leave I think to start with. And when I got off the train there was the station master in Worksop then was a man called George Taylor who was a large friend of my father’s and when I got off the train George was waiting for me and he said, ‘Oh, Ron. Let me just have a word.’ He said, ‘Before you go home I want you to go up to the shop and see your father.’ So I said, ‘Whatever for?’ He said, ‘Well, I don’t really know. Your father wants to see you.’ So I think that in Worksop from the station up to the top of Bridge Street is about a mile so I walked up there to right where the Town Hall is in actual fact. So I walked up there to the thing and saw my father was there waiting to see me. And they knew, I’d sent a telegram I think to say I was coming home and then he knew. My father knew. So he said, ‘Well, before you go home you’ve got to go and see Dr Anderson down Potter Street.’ So I said, well, that was just a bit further down the Town Hall. Down Potter Street. So I said, ‘What for?’ He said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘I don’t really know.’ So I put two and two together and I thought now this is yellow jaundice. I’d had an x-ray by the way after, after. So I thought this relates to yellow jaundice. It’s given me heart trouble. That’s all I could think of because actually yellow jaundice has, does give all sorts of problems. So that was, that was, so I trooped down and sure enough Dr Anderson’s waiting. He had two sons then running his business but he was there waiting to see me. So he got me sat down and he said, ‘Now,’ he said, ‘I’ve got some bad news for you.’ I said, ‘Ok. Thank you,’ thinking, still thinking, I mean I’m in now dead stuck. So he said, ‘Your mother’s very ill.’ I said, ‘I beg your pardon.’ He said, ‘Your mother’s very ill and one of her sisters is looking after her and,’ he said, ‘I think she’ll probably live two weeks. She’s purely alive to see you.’
DE: Oh crikey.
RI: Which [pause] so I then made my way home and of course all that he’d told me was true. My mum was in a bed in the front room and had been there for months. And she did die about a fortnight after I got home. So that was home coming [pause] I’m sorry.
DE: No. Do you want me to stop it for a minute?
RI: Yeah.
[recording paused]
DE: Ok. So we’re recording again.
RI: The worst part of it really was that I had no need in the first place. As I was in a Reserved Occupation being a bound apprentice I was a fool to go. I’d no need to have gone in the Service until I’d done my apprenticeship. Five years. Or seven years, I think. And I’ve, in some respects I’ve held myself responsible for my mother’s death.
DE: You think it was something to do with her worrying about you.
RI: Well, I’d no need to have gone in the Services. I could have stayed out. And I think with hindsight it was what I envisaged the Service offered as against what I’d got at home. I’d got a marvellous home but at the same time you were subject to sort of home discipline I suppose in one way or another. And of course by going in to the RAF I envisaged all sorts of things which some which materialised and some didn’t but I’d [pause] people have said what a fool I am to think that I caused my mother’s death. I still don’t know to this day what she died of.
DE: Right.
RI: I don’t know what the death certificate was made out of. I don’t. I’m not quite sure. I went, I went to pieces actually for a while. I went back to Church Fenton which was, after I had this month and was interviewed by a wing co or whatever. I can’t remember what rank he was but it was an interview and he said, ‘What do you want to do with the rest of your stay in the RAF?’ And I said, he said, ‘Do you want to go on a pilot’s course again?’ I said, ‘Well, I don’t know really.’ He said, ‘Well,’ he said, we can put you on a Mosquito course if you like or — ’ I said, ‘What’s the alternative?’ he said, ‘Air traffic control. Flying control.’ So I said, well I then went out and then explained to him about things at home and all the rest of it and he said, ‘Well, take some more leave. Take us much as you like.’ I had actually about three months leave in total I think. But betwixt times I got talking to some friends, ex-RAF friends and as they said, ‘Think twice before you start talking about flying because the Japanese war is still on and the Japanese don’t take aircrew prisoners. What they do in actual fact [unclear] I speak to you. They cut the goolies off and sew them to your mouth and kill you.’ He said, ‘That’s what happens to all if you get shot down.’ But I think and I’m nearly sure that people that flew over Japan at that particular time towards the end of the war were given suicide tablets anyway. I’m not a hundred percent sure about that but I’m nearly certain that’s what happened. Yeah. Because the death rate they just didn’t take prisoners. Aircrew prisoners anyway. So that was that. So then the air traffic control business came in then. And the only row I had in, in my RAF career I think ended up by, I went on a course for air traffic control business which really didn’t amount to much. I got all the rudiments of it anyway and I was, I got eventually sent to Spitalgate near Grantham and there was a flight lieutenant there that was in charge. I was a WO1 in those days. The overall bod in that flying control at Spitalgate was the lieutenant and he’d, he was a pre-war bod who hated aircrew anyway because of the rapid promotion. [laughs] Not unusual. And, but I was the senior NCO there and the station warrant officer was also an ex-aircrew bod which was a blessing. So Christmas came in ’45 and there was a list arrived on the notice board of people on duty over Christmas. Of which I was one. So my father was now of course on his own and I spent the last Christmas in the POW camp. So I got hold of this flight lieui who didn’t like me anyway and I, mutual and I said, ‘I find that very hard to take.’ I said, ‘I think,’ I said, ‘And there are one or two more NCOs who’ll take my place anyway because I’d already broached it with them,’ and I said, ‘There’s one or two NCOs that will take my place so that I can have Christmas leave.’ ‘Oh no,’ he said, ‘It’s all been done fairly. That’s the end of it. And you’re on at Christmas.’ ‘Well,’ I said, ‘In that case I’ll put an application in to see the old man,’ who was an ex-aircrew bod you, see and I knew, I knew he was on a loser. So one thing led to another and then my name disappeared off there and I got Christmas leave and some bod took it on. But when I got, when I came back after Christmas leave a couple of the bods said, ‘You want to be ever so careful because he hasn’t half got it in for you now.’ I said, ‘That won’t matter anyway,’ I said, ‘No chance.’ He didn’t know I’d got a car anyway and he didn’t know that. Cars were very scarce in that time of course but I had my own car. And he sent me out to Coleby Grange which was in Lincolnshire here and I I ended up stopping there and closing that place down ready for the Yanks because they were going to put nuclear weapons in there eventually. In Coleby they were. And so I had a great time at Coleby Grange unbeknownst to him you see, yeah because I was a senior bod there. There was supposed to be a commissioned officer but we never hardly saw one. But we had a great time there. A really great time. And another part, another story which, this is hard, you’ll find this hard to believe. It became a storage place for the RAF when they were closing stations down we’d get all sorts of tackle then. And I got landed with the job of putting all this stuff that appeared on lorries and trailers and things into these hangars that were empty then. And of course one day, I hope you believe this, one day a lorry arrived and he came. I went to talk to the driver and he wanted to know where to take it. So I said, ‘Well — ’ And they were balloons they were. Air sea rescue balloons but not, not the land ones. The water ones. Over the water. So he said, ‘They’re all barrage balloons I’ve got.’ So he said, ‘Do you want one?’ Now, this sounds too silly for words but it’s, so I said, ‘Well, I don’t know really. Yes. Yes.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘I’ve got one spare if you want one.’ So he give me one of these balloons. Bloody great thing of course. So I got one of the ground crew lads to take one of the seats out of the car and I got it in there and I eventually took it home for all the ladies to cut it up and made clothing for themselves after this. This was of course when clothing was scarce. So that was really the end of all that and I stayed there until Coleby closed down. Then I managed to get, I was demobbed then and came home. Since when of course a lot of these other things have born light now. And which I’ll probably go into now with. When you’re ready. Yeah.
DE: Okey dokey. Yeah.
RI: So really that covers, sort of I don’t know if I’ve done right.
DE: No. That was wonderful. So what did you do after you left the RAF?
RI: Well, the RAF. When I, as I was coming out of the RAF the RAF informed me by letter I think that certainly I was communicated somewhere or other, the RAF would pay a third of my wages to complete my apprenticeship. Which is what they did. And there’s a completion of apprenticeship papers in there somewhere. There is. Well, there is. It’s in there. And so I did two years and I did very well to be honest. I got, and I got on very well with, with the employer and who gave me a magnificent twenty first birthday I might add too. Gold cufflinks and everything which I’ve still got of course and, but I was obsessed with self-employment rather than somebody to, I’ve never liked people telling me what to do. That’s unfortunate. So I was obsessed with the idea of you know getting on my own sooner or later and [pause] And I hadn’t the money to set up in business but the Yorkshire Penny Bank I knew the manager in there. The Yorkshire Penny Bank as it was in those days. And I eventually took a shop in Chesterfield that sold news and it had, there’d been that, it was a big shop actually for a new starter but I borrowed money from one place or another and what money I had and we went into this. There was, we had a thousand paper customers. I’d never been in the shop in my life before. With bacon and everything in but it progressed but there’d been thieving going on terribly and the place had lost money. However, I soon put a stop to that and I got some of the family to come and help and so we progressed from there and then I eventually sold that. And because I wanted to go and live, oh I did have, I suffer with catarrh. Still do. And the doctor said, ‘You want to go and live by the coast.’ So eventually I went to have a look at the coast and found a piece of land and built half a dozen bungalows on there which we then let in the summer time and then eventually sold. And then through the Chesterfield business a chap arrived where I lived in, in, down on the coast and introduced his self. He said, ‘I’ve had a word with — ’ I think the Heinz representative, he said, ‘Who met you in Chesterfield. I said, ‘Oh, yeah.’ He said, ‘You wouldn’t be interested in coming along with me would you?’ So I said, ‘Well, I don’t know. In what respect?’ So he said, well he said, he was a man just a bit older than me, he played the organ as well by the way, Johnnie did. And one thing led to another and he said, ‘Look, why don’t you come and take the store over in Sutton on Sea for me?’ Why this all came through a traveller that had been to me in Chesterfield and then met him in Sutton on Sea. So I said yeah. So I took over and ran that and put it, it was losing money, we put it back on profit and sacked a lot of the staff because they were all at it. And yeah, so that was, so well my kids came and helped in there as well. So that, that was going, and then Johnnie was getting to the, he got caught with his, well that’s another story but he, he his wife left him and then he got married again. She was a great woman too I might add. However, things progressed and then he opened an organ shop. She came from Derby and he said, he was thinking of retiring and one week he came, he came down to, and had a word. He said ’Look,’ he said, he used to come to our house in Trusthorpe and he came and he said, ‘Look, Ron, can I have a talk with you? Can we come Sunday night and have a talk to you and I’ll bring Edna with me?’ I said, ‘Of course you can.’ So he came around, we had a meal together and all the rest of it and he said, ‘Look, he said, ‘I’m thinking of retiring.’ Now, he’s got a business there or had then and employed about two hundred people in the summer time. He had a Rootes group, a car place, spray shop, loads of restaurants, fish and chip restaurants. You name it he’d got them. He’d really got it. He’d been in the RAF too. But he’d really, he was a gruff man. You’d never believe with some of his language but the best business man I’ve ever met in my life. So we sat and he said, ‘Look Ron, he said, ‘I’m not looking for money,’ he said, ‘I’m looking for you to take it over lock stock and barrel,’ he said, ‘And you can pay me back.’ He said, ‘We’ll put it through a solicitor but I want you to pay me back gradually. A bit at a time.’ So I said, ‘Well, ok. Let’s think about it then.’ So off he went thinking we’ve already agreed to this. So when he’d gone I said to Joyce, ‘Look, I’m not really too sure about this. We’re going to, this, this business is a seven day a week thing from eight in the morning ‘til 9 o’clock or 10 o’clock at night when we close up.’ So I said, ‘Look, I think, I think not.’ So I went to see him down at his house in Mablethorpe and I said, ‘Ray, I’m ever so sorry but I’m going to turn you,’ Oh he couldn’t believe it.’ He said, ‘You’re never turning it down.’ I said, ‘Yeah. I am. Because I want to be on my own.’ So from there that was that. And I’ve always been interested in antiques as you probably look around you’ll see. And I said when we built these bungalows, I said to Joyce, ‘We haven’t had a holiday. Let’s bugger off and have a holiday.’ So we grabbed the kids and took the car and went toured around Scotland. We’d arranged to stay away two weeks and after about, I can’t be still anyway, after about twelve days, no. Less than that. After ten days we were back around as far as Stranraer and we got, I said, ‘Let’s have another two or three days before we go home. So I said, ‘Let’s go across to Ireland and find John Tregoning,’ who was the fella I’ve referred to already. He was a customs officer on the border. Now, I didn’t know where he was unfortunately so the first morning we were there we went into the customs headquarters in, in Dublin. No. In Stranraer sorry. Yeah. In Stranraer. No, it was over in, no, the headquarters of, it was in Ireland somewhere where the headquarters. Anyway, I went to see this bod in there and I said, ‘I’m looking for a man called John Tregoning.’ And he said, well we wouldn’t tell me where he was, he said was because, ‘The reason I don’t tell you is I don’t know whether you’re looking for retribution or whatever.’ So I said, well, so I explained it to him and then he said, ‘Well, I’ll tell you what I’ll do,’ he said, ‘I’ll get in touch with him and I’ll have a word with him,’ he said, ‘And then if you come back I’ll tell you either yay or nay.’ So we do this and we went back and he told us Ray lived in Auchnacloy down on the border, you see. So we get down to Auchnacloy and we have festivities as you probably can imagine. And walking through, through the village we see a fella who obviously knew John, called George Taylor and we eventually go across to his place down in, he was dealing in antiques and horses and horse and carriages and things. I couldn’t believe the stuff he’d got. So, anyway, one thing led to another and so I formed a friendship with this George Taylor in Auchnacloy and it lasted, well until I packed the antique business up. We used to go to Ireland weekly, virtually. But he, he had some carriages and all these things that you see on the TV with these fancy carriages and stagecoaches and things and he’d all these. He’d over a hundred in one field. Traps. So I ended up buying some bloody traps you see and bringing them home to the UK [laughs] and landaus and all sorts. So that bore fruition, and went very well until to go back to my son he, he wanted to go, he wanted to go into navigation in the Merchant Navy. But when he went for a medical examination he found, they found he’d got the same trouble with his eyes I have. And so we had a, they rang me up from, from Grimsby actually. Been for this test in Grimsby and they rang me up and said this problem and they said that you could probably get him cured by getting him going to the relevant people. But he said, ‘We must warn you that he’ll have to undergo the same eye test every year. Now, he said if it deteriorates he’s never going to be out of trouble.’ So I went over and I told Robert what all this was and he said, ‘Well, I don’t know what to do, dad.’ I said, ‘Well, do you want to come and work with me for a while?’ So he joined me and that’s how it all ended up and it’s still the same thing now.
DE: Right. Ok
RI: He’s still, still doing now. He’s got some bungalows. So that’s another. So that, so that was that story really. How that all came about. My son came to work, to work with me and that’s how. Then of course the family all then we all amalgamated and got together and poor old, poor lad then we put him in we had a hot dog stall in Mablethorpe so we put him in there at nights. I think he gave more away then he sold but if you ever meet him. Oh, you met him anyway because he was with me when we went there.
DE: Right.
RI: Robert was. Yeah.
DE: So you mentioned that you met up with some of your crew.
RI: I did yes. I did. Well, I used to see John regularly because he was in Auchnacloy and we used to go and stay there you see. So we used to see John quite regular. Now, Tom Coram, came over from Australia and he wasn’t a very nice chap so that was best forgotten really. So I then decided to go to Canada to see, to see John Callingham. So we went and had a ride down the, you know, down. Did all the trip and I went and flew over on Concorde and all the rest of it we did because [laughs] So, so that was that. And so, yeah. So we had, we had a great time with John. There’s photographs of him somewhere which we’ll come to shortly. So we discussed all this. What we’d done and of course we were much older by this stage of course, you see. So things take on a different light really. But we had a lot of, he was a hell of a nice man and he’d taken a big part in in Canada in in Toronto in the ex-Service Associations. They used to fly him over to France every year to the, to this thing there. So he’d taken a big part actually after. He was a, what did he do? He was a [pause] he weren’t an engineer. No. He was a surveyor I think. Yes. He was. Yeah. So I saw him and the mid-upper gunner. He went. He played the clarinet by the way, the mid-upper gunner and, but he went to live in Australia and so I lost touch with him. The last time I talked to them on the phone he’d got dementia and so he didn’t really know anybody and all this tragic story. So that ended, and that finished that. John Tregoning, who was the navigator was the bod who we became very, very friendly with. We used to go and see him in Plymouth. When he came back from Ireland he took a big job in Plymouth so we used to go down there and have a few days with him in Plymouth. And he used to, hadn’t been on the Hoe and this Plymouth Hoe and all this business. So we had great times down there. Yeah, yeah, so that. And the Eddie Gaylor, the bod who was the spare rear gunner I met him regularly then of course because he used to walk past with his little dog and so forth. So I met him quite regularly. So, but the rest, for the rest, it sort of it disappears doesn’t it? The engineer that we had he had joined us latterly of course after, after we’d crewed up originally. He joined us last but he was a married man and he was twenty eight. Lived in Liverpool. But to us this is incredible.
DE: He was an old man.
RI: We thought he was an old man. He’d got kids. So we never sort of mixed with him at all whilst he was a good engineer so far, but he never sort of became part of us at all. And Christ he was only twenty eight [laughs] This is unbelievable really now.
DE: Yeah.
RI: You’ve disturbed all this news you have [laughs] you’re the one that’s responsible now. Yeah.
DE: Yeah. So when did you start going to Squadron Association meetings and reunions and things?
RI: Do you know, it was only through him. Through Eddie that I went. Meeting him. That was. Oh, it must be —
DE: Eddie was the spare bod gunner.
RI: Yeah. He was the spare bod gunner.
DE: Yeah.
RI: Yes. Yeah. And that of course at the reunions was where I met the fella who sold all the books. I will show you. I won’t let you read them now but I’ll show what he’s written. Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. Of which he’s put copies in the museum in Elvington. But you can’t get at them unless you get permission but they’re there to be read. All of them that he wrote on my behalf. Yeah. He became a great friend. A great friend, he really did, a real nice. What a nice man. He really was. Yeah. Really is rather. I must ring him, because going back to the rear gunner’s memorial at your place when your helpers told us that his name wouldn’t be on there because there was only Lincolnshire names on there I had to tell you that didn’t I? And then we find out from your good self that, that wasn’t true and of course the names that I imagine that the two Ridleys on there weren’t him but of course they are.
DE: Yeah. Yeah. One of them is. Yeah.
RI: Yeah. That’s right. One of them is Bert so I‘ve now got to ring around some of his family because they want to, they’ve seen it all at Elvington but they’ll certainly want to see this at your place now. So I’ve got the, one of them, one, his cousin he lives in a castle up in [pause] his two lads. One of them’s a test pilot for [pause] in France. And his wife flies the queen. And the other one is, is in charge of building the new airport in Hong Kong. So you can guess what they are.
DE: Yeah.
RI: Yes. So they all want, they send hampers to us at Christmas and all this sort of thing now. So it’s all, just to tell you the story about his family about the rear gunner’s family that’s written down. But you’ll see this but if you want to record it while you’re here. What happened was, I forget how many years ago it is now, but it does tell you in there anyway. How many years ago I get a phone call one Sunday afternoon and a bod saying, ‘Is that Mr Indge?’ Now, I don’t like being disturbed Sunday afternoons and I thought it was somebody trying to sell me double glazing or some silly bloody thing so I said, ‘Yes, it is,’ I said, ‘What do you want?’ I wasn’t very courteous I don’t think. So he said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘All I can say to you Mr Indge does the name Ridley mean anything to you?’ I said, ‘Yeah. It does. It means a lot to me.’ I said, ‘Why? Do you know him?’ And he said, ‘No. But,’ he said, ‘I’m one of the Ridley family.’ So then we start to converse then and one thing led to another. So then he got in touch with his brother and his father who then ring me up and all this. So then eventually they want to come down here and have a look at a Halifax, you see. Now, I’ve been in the one in Elvington several times, and they normally in those days and still, as far as I’m aware still do, you can go in. You go in. Of course we didn’t, we didn’t come out that way. We came out via a hatch but the side of the Halifax is well back.
DE: Yes.
RI: But they won’t let visitors turn right down to the rear turret. They only let visitors go left up in to where the engineers and everybody else was sat. So they arranged then to come on holiday for which I never coughed a penny. They paid for my hotels and all this they did. These three did. And so then I rang Elvington and arranged that I could take them and they’d let them go inside the aircraft probably and have a look. Now, I’d been in several times obviously, and there was usually young men that were there to show you around the aircraft because it’s really a job for a very young man climbing in and out anyway. So when I went with these three Ridleys, it was an old man. Well, old. I say oldish. I suppose sixty five, seventy perhaps and he was going to take us into the aircraft. So he climbed into the aircraft first followed by perhaps myself and these other three bods and he then starts to, I said, ‘They would like to look in the turret.’ He said, he said, ‘You know that I can’t let you go down there.’ I said, ‘No. But — ’ I said, I told him who they were and he said, well he said, ‘All I can do,’ he said, ‘I’ll walk up the front,’ he said, ‘If they’d like to go down to the rear turret but,’ he said, ‘If I catch you,’ he said, ‘I’ll have to say. I’ll have to say.’ I said, ‘That’s fair enough.’ Now, perhaps this is unbelievable but they all went down. They went down into the rear turret in turns. Three of them. And they even say now how, how Bert’s cousin got in there because he wasn’t young of course by now. How the hell he got in there is beyond belief. But you’ll perhaps, you’ll find this out, they all came out crying. I’ve been and sat in the rear turret. They all deserved a VC. It was an awful job. An awful job. You were sat with nothing. It’s awful. Terrible job. Terrible. So that was really, so we’re now big friends and all the rest of it and so they all now want to come to the new one at Lincoln and have a look at the one of Bert’s name on the —
DE: On the wall. Yeah.
RI: On the wall. Yeah. They do.
DE: They’ll be most welcome.
RI: Yeah. Yeah.
DE: Yeah. I’ve not, I’ve not been inside the Halifax at Elvington. I’ve been inside a couple of the Lancasters.
RI: Yeah. That’s funny. I never have been inside a Lanc ever in my life.
DE: Have you not?
RI: No.
DE: There’s not meant to be as much room is there as there is in a Halifax?
RI: I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know. There was very little. They could get another thousand feet in height roughly. But their bomb load was a little bit more. But there weren’t a lot in it. A lot of the bods that had flown in both reckoned that the Halifax was the better of the two. I don’t know. I’ve no idea. I don’t really know. They were there just for a job weren’t they?
DE: Yeah
RI: They weren’t designed for comfort. They were designed to do a job weren’t they?
DE: Yeah. You were talking a bit earlier again before we started recording about how the Lancaster has been remembered and the Halifax less so perhaps.
RI: Yes.
DE: How do you feel about the way Bomber Command has been remembered over the last seventy years or so.
RI: Well, it’s got you see, even at Elvington now there’s some young men how this should be done now. They’ve rebuilt a Mosquito up there and they were hoping to get, we became very friendly with the bod that was building it. He reckoned it had cost him his marriage. And he used to get some young engineers from right from down south to come up there in the holidays and help him to rebuild this thing. And his second wife, Sotheby’s have an aircraft sale once a year and she, for some reason or other went to see them at this whatever in, up in Leeds. And they said to her, ‘If he wants to sell it we’ll get, could get him a million for it. But,’ but they said, ‘If he can get it airborne we’ll get him two million.’ But of course he won’t because he’s had bits to rebuild this thing from all over the world actually. I haven’t been for a while so it’ll be finished now I presume. But what a nice man that rebuilt this Mosquito. Yeah. Yeah. So you know and so it’s all progressed from there now and a lot’s happened since of course finding where the aircraft crashed and all the rest of it. Do you want to go down the route now? Or —
DE: Yeah. Fine.
RI: Or later?
DE: No. If yeah if you have a story to tell about that then yes please. Yeah.
RI: Well, when, I don’t know how this started now. How the hell did it? [pause] Well, we went. I went myself and Hollis’ went to Germany to Bert’s grave on several, three or four occasions because there are in Reichswald Forest there are several 578 bods buried. And when we used to go there’s always brought two little wooden crosses and we used to not only go to Bert’s but go to all the others and put a little cross on them. This was on Reichswald Forest, and so that went on for several years and I then started going down. I lost my wife and I started going for, the RAF have got some places, recuperation places. I don’t know what you’d call them. There’s one down on the south coast, there’s one in Scotland, and there’s several of them. I went to one of them down on the south coast and some bod down there got in touch with the National Lottery. This all sounds, but however it’s true and eventually I hear from a lady in, the National Lottery then had an office in Nottingham in that time of the day and I had a letter from them. Would I be, did I want any lottery funding for anything that I might? So I said, ‘Yeah, I do really.’ So, however the outcome of that was they sent me a thousand pounds. The National Lottery did. So I gathered together and there’s pictures now of this. There’s pictures of them all somewhere in this somewhere which I’ll give you before we go too much further.
DE: We’ll find them.
RI: We’ll find them. Yeah. So I then, so we gather, so we got this funding from the National Lottery but at the same time a German who worked in Germany, an Englishman who worked in Germany who was aircraft mad had discovered in Gelsenkirchen where there was some aircraft, aircraft had crashed. Now, he’d gone as far as sorting out that there was a Lanc and a Halifax. Now, they couldn’t decide which bits belonged to which except all the crew of the Lanc were killed and in our case only the rear gunner was. Now, we’ll get to this bit in a bit. The rear gunner was still in the, in that, in the back bit of the aircraft. And what happened was this, this bod who was Air Force mad but worked in Germany he, he found out that going back a little bit he found out that they’d been widening a dyke and they’d found all these bits of the aircraft and the turret with the body of Bert still in. Or what remained of him. And also he found out that there’s an old man with dementia, well it’s all fell foul now, but there’s an old man in that village that had got a photograph of it when it first came down. Before it, and actually there’s good photograph of Bert in it actually. Or what remained of him. But he won’t part with it. But they’ve promised us that they will part with it eventually but when the eventual will be I’m not, I’m not quite sure. But this is, this is part of the epilogue of course and this refers to it. This is what I’ve been meaning to give you, and let you look at. Now, I think, I think you’d better take the recorder off.
DE: Ok.
[recording paused]
DE: Recording now. You were saying about petrol.
RI: Yeah. Well, we were aware, I was aware that, and of course we all were, all aircrew members that once you were on ops you could get a petrol allowance for pleasure. And so far as I’m aware, and I’m certain we were the only people in the UK that got actually a petrol allowance purely for pleasure. Not involving business. So that, that, I never registered the thing. I never taxed it or anything. I’d no driving licence or anything of course but nobody bothered us in those days. There was nobody about. So when we were shot down they sent a list which they’re all here still. Those lists are still here. You’ll see them if you want to. Those lists told my father what, what behind, what was mine. There was a bit of money. There was several things and they would be forwarding this stuff to him. But there was no mention of a car. So of course my father apparently panicked and then rang about this car because there was a bike. That got sent back but there was no mention of a car. So my father actually went up to Burn I think eventually and some of the bods there had pinched the tyres and the battery [laughs] So eventually they got it squared up and my father was friendly with a garage and they got some tyres from somewhere and managed to get it. And so the Ministry wrote to him to say that the car was available for collection. So that’s, so it was here. When I got home it was there. All taxed and ready and on the road it was. Yeah. So that was another thing out of there really that I hadn’t told you about which it’s only you coming here that disturbed all this information.
DE: Made you think of it. Yeah.
RI: It has. Yeah. Yeah.
DE: So it wasn’t a bad life when you were on the station on ops then. You —
RI: No. No. Because I used to go out. We used to, we got in with several pubs locally. We used to take the squeezebox down. Never had to buy any drink because we just used to use the squeezebox and that was it. Yeah. No. That was good really. Yeah. From that point of view. Yeah. Yeah. You never thought of what might happen I think did we? You just, your name just got rubbed off [coughs] excuse me. Your name just got crossed off when you didn’t get back. So yeah. That was it. So that, that was the end really of the of the escapade until, a lot of it came to light with the grant from the Lottery Fund and when we all went and met among these others. Well, there were pictures of that too. We met this Roman Catholic padre and a member of the press came around and wanted to take pictures of us and all assembled. It was, it was remarkable how they found bits and pieces of the thing really but, but there was I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet there’s a vague picture of the remnants of the turret.
DE: I did see it. Yeah.
RI: Did you see it? Yeah.
DE: A black and white one.
RI: Yeah, it is. Yeah. So whether we shall ever get any more we don’t know but there’s nothing so sure that in my mind that that was actually him. Yeah. Yeah. So, but they took us for a ride around the old oil refinery at Gelsenkirchen where we were shot down and it’s a lot bigger now than it was then of course. But whether it was all in vain I’m not quite sure. I don’t know. I remember us all saying at the end of it all we’ll never buy anything Japanese or German ever again.
DE: Right.
RI: And look at us now.
DE: Yeah.
RI: We’re all riding about in them now.
DE: Yeah.
RI: But we all said that you know. We’ll never buy anything from Germany again. Yeah. I know the March reflection, you know. You’ve brought all of these reflections up. The March. Now really it’s unbelievable that we were straggled out for miles but the cold weather. I mean we couldn’t, I couldn’t live through it now any more. I suppose you’d [emphasis] struggle perhaps.
DE: I’m sure I would. Yeah.
RI: With twenty to thirty below. Yeah.
DE: Yeah.
RI: Yeah. But we were lucky because the Germans marched us through the day normally and at night time locked us up in farmyards and things. But we were a bit lucky because John Callingham, he was, he was of farming stock so he was able to, where a few nights we did manage I think he managed to get us milk and all sorts of things. Having been a farmer’s son and the rest of it. So that was very useful really this extra milk and things like that. Yeah. And then we, yeah, so there we go. So what else you would like to know about I’m not quite sure.
DE: I think we’ve ticked off just about everything that’s on my list.
RI: Good.
DE: Yeah [pause] No. So unless you have anything else that you’d like to tell me I’ll draw the interview to a close and thank you very much.
RI: Well, only that I’ll just get a couple of the books out and show you. Not that you’ll want to read them.
DE: I’ll just pause this then.
RI: If you ever do want to see them you know where they are.
DE: Smashing. Thank you.
RI: I don’t, you know one way or the other.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ronald Indge
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dan Ellin
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-31
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AIndgeRC180131
Format
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01:24:29 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Great Britain
Poland
Belgium--Brussels
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Worksop
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Luckenwalde
Poland--Tychowo
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Description
An account of the resource
Ronald Indge was a wireless operator on 578 Squadron and became a prisoner of war after his Halifax aircraft was shot down.
Upon leaving school, and unable to obtain employment in his chosen career, his father arranged a bound apprenticeship with a joiner. Attracted by the glamour of the RAF, when almost eighteen, and without his parent's knowledge, he travelled with a friend to Sheffield and they both enlisted in the RAF. Entry was initially deferred until Ron was at the required age. He describes his route through training, on successful completion of which, his crew joined 578 Squadron. In February 1944, Ron’s aircraft was attacked from behind, killing the rear gunner. With limited control of the aircraft, the remaining crew was forced to evacuate and Ron was immediately captured. Following interrogation, he eventually arrived at Stalag Luft 7. Whilst there he met a fellow prisoner playing a piano accordion. Having learnt to play in his younger days, Ron describes how further instruments were obtained and the formation of a concert party which enabled them to entertain their fellow prisoners. However, they were also required to entertain the German officers which caused some concern to Ron, but they received meals in return. There was a known collaborator amongst the prisoners, and care had to be taken to ensure no loose talk gave away any information. In January 1945, the advancing Russian army forced the evacuation and the prisoners were forced to march to Stalag 3A. This took several weeks in temperatures as low as -20 degrees Celsius, and improvised sledges were used to pull weak prisoners. Following liberation, Ron returned home to discover his mother was terminally ill. He spent some time on general duties before being discharged and with support from the RAF, was able to complete his apprenticeship. Contact with some of his crew has been maintained in conjunction with 578 Squadron Association, with several visits to the grave of the rear gunner. The site of the crashed Halifax, with the body still in position, was located when civil engineering was carried out in the area.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ian Whapplington
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1944
1945
578 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
entertainment
final resting place
Halifax
military living conditions
prisoner of war
RAF Burn
RAF Riccall
RAF Yatesbury
Red Cross
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/146/3505/ATaylorWH150710.2.mp3
1d51f0f6e10e9267096b78aab5b85a34
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Taylor, William
William Henry Taylor
William H Taylor
W H Taylor
W Taylor
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with William Henry Taylor (2214212 Royal Air Force) and a typewritten memoir.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Taylor, WH
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
I’m Ron Meredith and I’m conducting an interview at the moment with Mr Taylor who I’m going to ask to introduce himself. We are actually doing this from his own home in Tattershal and I’m em, sure the rest of this will be quite interesting. Not only did Mr Taylor serve during the War and become a prisoner of War he served on the “V” force with Nuclear Weapons as well, so there is a little story behind this, over to you Sir.
WT. What ?
RM. You are.
WT.My History?
RM. The first thing to say is “I am.”
WT. Who I am?
RM. I’d rather not prompt you unless I have to and if you could just tell it as you wish. Absolutely as you wish.
WT. From the word go?
RM. From the time you signed up first or were called up first, yes.
WT. To?
RM.To whenever you decide.
WT. My name is William Henry Taylor, known as Buck throughout my service. I joined the Air Force in Nineteen Forty Two and er. Actually when I went to join up I went to join the Navy but it was out for lunch so the RAF Recruiter got hold of me and he said “I am sure you would like to be in the Air Force and be a Pilot.” I didn’t even know what a Pilot was, I was only seventeen I told them I was eighteen to get in and eh did a few months refuelling aeroplanes and things like that and em after a period they were asking for volunteers for Aircrew and I became Aircrew. Eh, went through all my courses, did my course as an Air Gunner at Andreas on the Isle of Man and from there on we did various other aircraft, Ansons, Wellingtons and eh at a certain, I forget exactly when it was but it was in nineteen forty four I think, end of Forty Three I think, we were all put into a hanger at RAF Finingley and told to crew up and eh everybody.
RM. What Squadron was this by the way?
WT.No Squadron, just Aircrew that had passed out and, so forth, and this Pilot came to me and said”I like the look of you will you become a member of my Crew, you know be my Gunner?” I certainly would like to be, so we crewed up at Finningley and then as a Crew we went to the OTUs and this and that and the other on Halifaxes, Lancasters and goodness knows what and then eventually posted to Elsham Wolds 103 Squadron and eh. Funny thing about being Aircrew, I didn’t know anybody but my Crew. We didn’t mix; we just kept together the seven of us and eh, slept together, ate together, went out for drinks together and so on. Then we were thrown into the War like Soldiers do, go over the top and eh, commenced Operations. Eh, very dangerous I might say, you were going through flak, like snowflakes there was that much stuff coming up at you, you were wondering how you got through that. Wondering how the Pilot thought, how am I going to get through that? What we did, did several, numerous operations, and finally there was a target just about fifty miles from Paris that we did, it was a place called Ruevigdies. We went there, it was a nine hour trip there and back and em, the first Operation on it, you know numerous Lancasters involved. Couldn’t find the Target and all the rest of it and it was just a waste of time and two nights later, and we lost a few Aircraft on that trip. Then a couple of days later we were told we were going back again to bomb it that night. We reached the target but couldn’t find it, the Pathfinder people couldn’t find it because of the weather, foggy and so forth. We stooged around in circles for quite a bit, aircraft colliding with each other and I don’t know, a bit rough and the next thing I knew on this one, having left the target, well actually the thing is eh, we were told to come home the trip was cancelled. The Master Operator who was looking after the job told us all to go home and my Pilot said to the Crew “We haven’t come all this way twice to come home each time, having done nothing, I think I know where the target was” So we did a bit of a detour around the place and he said “this is it” and we dropped out bombs and headed for home. On the way home we were being attacked and the next thing I knew there was a big explosion behind my turret and eh, the Pilot asked everybody if they were all right and the Bomb Aimer was dead and the Mid Upper Gunner was dead. I found out later after the War we had been hit by one of those Messerschmitt 110 with upward firing guns. The aircraft just went into a dive, a very steep dive and all I could hear was the Pilot shouting “God save me” you know and I thought we are not going to get out of this very well. So I got out of my turret, put my parachute on and the entrance door to the aircraft was just behind my turret. I thought crikey if I jump out I will be in the propellers before we know where we are. So I went back in the turret, all this happened in seconds, I swung the turret on the beam and leant back like that and the slip stream got hold of me and threw me out. Tumbling through the sky, fortunately I remembered to pull my parachute thing and I landed four to five hundred yards from where the aircraft hit the deck. And eh, a big saga from then on, being captured, going through [unreadable] Luft, you know the interrogation centre. A lot of this travelling from France to eventually the Prisoner of War Camp took a couple of weeks on trains, lorries and so forth. It ended up being this Luft 7 a place called Bankow in Poland. And eh, not very nice, a new camp surrounded by high wires gun turrets and goodness knows what and eh after a period of er,well not long three or four months, we were told to get up and marched off in the snow, it was snowing like billyoh. We marched from Poland to just outside Berlin, a place called Leukenwalde. We lost lots and lots of men in the snow, it never stopped snowing for weeks.
RM. Roughly what year would this have been?
WT. It was called the Death March.
RM. Exactly what year was that, was that Forty Four or Forty Five?
WT. It was February Forty Four. Yes that’s when the March started, it took us three weeks and we ended up at this Leukenwalde which was a Camp for all Nationalities, you know Americans, Poles you name it and the French, they were the most numerous Prisoners in this Camp. They lauded it over us, they really did, yes. Eventually we were released by the Russians. The Russian Tank Squadron came to the Camp and just mowed the wires down and the turrets and everything and they wanted us to get on the tanks and go to, they were heading for Berlin, to fight with them in Berlin. I don’t think anybody volunteered. We hadn’t been fed for ages; we couldn’t have fought if we had tried. Then eh, as I say after this release by the Russians we were flown back to England by the Americans and eh, my War as such was over. I hadn’t enjoyed it too much [laugh]. I’m sorry.
RM. It’s an amazing story though, amazing story, but that wasn’t the end for you, you decided to soldier on, rejoin.
WT. Yes well er, we were all demobbed we were only in for the duration of the present emergency. I had no option, I had to go and I was a Warrant Officer and I couldn’t stand the quietness and whatever of Civvy Street. So after a few months I rejoined the Air Force and asked if I could fly again. No they don’t need flyers anymore, they would give me training as an Engineer, Ground Engineer and I accepted that. Then stayed in the Air Force plodding gently through all the ranks till I reached Warrant Officer again in Nineteen Seventy Four. The main thing that I was stationed at RAF Wittering as a Crew Chief on the Victor Bomber and eh, flew ‘round the World on that many, many times, you know. If I could have stayed at that I would have done, but they said no you are promoted to Flight Sergeant and off you go. I was posted to RAF Coningsby, went to America on the trials of the Phantom, myself and ten men. A year we did out there and came back and went operational on 54 Squadron and worked very hard to get that going. I was awarded or rewarded with the BEM for all my activities and stayed there till my service was completed in Nineteen Seventy Seven on my fifty second birthday.
RM. Well that is quite a remarkable story and I’m sure that will be of interest to many, many people over the years.
WT. Was it all right.
RM. Yes indeed, thank you so much.
WT. Can I listen to it?
RM. The only way you can listen to it
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ATaylorWH150710
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William Taylor
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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00:15:37 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
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Ron Merrideth
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-10
Description
An account of the resource
William Taylor joined the Royal Air Force in 1942 as ground crew. He remustered as an air gunner and flew operations with 103 Squadron from RAF Elsham Wolds, flying Lancasters. His Aircraft was attacked and shot down by a night fighter in July 1944. He baled out, was captured and became a prisoner of war. In February 1944, he and fellow prisoners were sent on the long march away from the advancing Russians. Following demobilisation he rejoined the Royal Air Force and worked with the V Force at RAF Wittering. He was awarded a British Empire Medal and retired in 1977.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Revigny-sur-Ornain
Germany--Luckenwalde
Poland--Żagań
Poland--Tychowo
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-07
1945-02
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Hugh Donnelly
103 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
crewing up
ground crew
ground personnel
Lancaster
Me 110
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Finningley
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1467/26603/BSangerEWSangerEWv1.1.pdf
49166e2ac2a0645ba282d78b26665089
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sanger, Eric William
E W Sanger
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Sanger, EW
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. The collection concerns Pilot Officer Eric William Sanger (b. 1915, 125630 Royal Air Force) and contains his prisoner of war log, documents and a photograph. He flew operations as an observer with 9 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Trevor Denis Simms and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
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335497 – Mr Sanger 10.45 Tuesday mid am [indecipherable word]
[underlined] It happened on night. [/underlined]
R.A.F. 9 Squadron, Waddington, Lincolnshire, 25th February 1943. About 7 pm on a rather dull evening.
All pre-flight preparations had been made, the target was a tank factory near Nuremberg. We were to fly in the main stream towards the Ruhr and at some point along the route, to change direction towards the south-east, to arrive over the target at the E.T.A. We were under strict orders to bomb only on the target marker laid down by the Pathfinder force.
We scrambled aboard the waggon and bumped off to dispersal where our Lancaster “W for Willy” stood ready for take-off. We climbed aboard, and get ourselves settled into our positions, the skipper and flight-engineer started the four engines and ran them ready for departure. A few minutes before we were due to taxi to the runway, a message was received to the effect that the flight had been delayed. Engines were stopped, and we all trooped out into the evening air and sat about talking and smoking to await further instructions. I found my parachute something of a nuisance, so I took it off and laid it on the tarmac.
Eventually the signal came for the all-clear. Engines were re-started, the crew took their places and slowly, the aircraft moved towards the runway. Suddenly there was a loud banging on the aircraft door, and shouting could be heard above the noise of the engines. The aircraft halted, the door was flung open, and one of the ground crew handed in a parachute! It was mine! We continued to taxi, and arrived at the point for take off. “W for Willy,. W for Willy! you may taxi up and take off (repeated) Off you go!
[page break]
Off you go! Over.” The engines revved as the throttles were opened, and we were soon hurtling down the runway. One or two little bumps and we were airborne. I left my position in the nose, and entered the front gun-turret. As bomb aimer I was responsible to man the gun in certain circumstances, and endeavour to map-read the route. As we climbed away from the airdrome, we entered thick cloud, and I was fascinated by the reflector [sic] on the clouds of what appeared to be several Lancasters. As it was, the reflections were of our own aircraft. We continued to climb still in cloud, until suddenly the cloud ended and we came out into bright moonlight. Below me, I could see some scattered islands which I now realise were the Frienans [sic] and shortly after this point we altered course for the target area. I spent most of the time [indecipherable word] anxiously scanning the night sky for any approach of danger, but fortunately there was none.
As [deleted] were [/deleted] we neared the target, I left the turret and returned to the bomb-bay, where I made sure all was set for the job in hand, including bombing height 16,000, air speed etc which I set on the bomb sight. In the bright moonlight the town of Nuremberg could be clearly seen, but no sign of anti-aircraft fire, searchlights or Pathfinder target. Something was wrong. Either we were early over the target, or the Pathfinders were late. I could clearly see the factory in the bend of a river, but bearing in mind the [deleted] ode [/deleted] orders about bombing, refrained from attacking it. We were forced to retrace our path in order to come in again on out prescribed target marker, and by this time air defences below had realised what our target was. Searchlights swept the sky, tracer flew up form the guns, and we were in for quite a reception.
[page break]
At last the large red white & blue marker flowered down below, and we started our bombing run. With eyes glued to the target in the bomb sight, I directed the pilot on a bombing run. “Bomb door open” Left, left. Steady! as the target loomed in the sight, I pressed the button. As the thousand-pounder left the bay, the a/c almost bounded up. [deleted] and [/deleted] “Bombs gone”. The a/c pulled away from the target area, and set course for home. Suddenly, there was a violent thud, the aircraft shuddered and then over the intercom. I heard the skipper shout, “Port engine on fire. Pull extinguisher cord, (or press button whatever was needed.) There was a great deal of noise and confusion. The engine was still burning away, and all the [deleted] manouvers [/deleted] manoeuvers [sic] of the pilot could not prevent the flames from spreading along the wing. Finally it became obvious that the aircraft had to be abandoned and the order was given.
It was my duty in the event of abandonment to remove the escape hatch, and jettison it through the open hatch. It refused to be jetisonned [sic] . It jammed in the hole, so I was forced to release it, and stack it inside the bay. This meant that only one person at a times could occupy the escape passage, so that it would have been very difficult for me to have made enough space for any one else. So, I had to be first.
I unplugged my inter-com. Knelt over the hatch, and went headlong into space.
Remembering instructions I grasped my parachute release, and buffeted by the slipstream of the aircraft waited a few seconds before pulling the rip cord.
I eventually pulled it, but to my horror there was no [deleted] not [/deleted] welcome tug on my shoulders. I looked own, and in the moonlight I saw that the small pilot chute
[page break]
had opened inside the parachute bag, like an upsidedown unfurled umbrella. Quickly, I reached inside the bag and pulled it out. The parachute streamed out behind it, and I was floating gently to earth in the bright moonlight. Since I had left the aircraft, I had held my breath, and now it exploded in a feeling of relief. For what seemed a few minutes I floated between earth and sky, and then the ground below began to speed up towards me, and I had landed.
For a few seconds I lay there getting my senses back, and when I was able to take stock of my surroundings I found myself in a ploughed field seemingly miles from anywhere, and at the foot of a large electricity pylon. A third time lucky!
I did my best to bury the parachute, but the ground was still frozen, so I did the best I could. I felt in my flying-suit pocket for survival kit, map, compass, money etc. It was not there, it must have fallen out on the way down., and Switzerland or France was a long way off. However, I decided to remain free as long as I could, so I made my way to the nearest road and set off. Overhead I heard the sounds of the lads on their way home, with regret. I [deleted] did [/deleted] had no idea of the direction in which I was heading. There was no one about and no habitation that I could see. All of a sudden as I came round a [deleted word] bend in the road, I saw and heard what appeared to be a village hall or canteen type of place. I hurried past, but as I came opposite the door, it opened and a figure came out. “Gute nacht” it said. “Gute nacht” I replied, and continued on my way. To my relief there was no sound of following footsteps.
By now it was well past midnight, and a brilliant moon. I continued along the road
[page break]
making no attempt to conceal myself, and in a mile or two I came to a cluster of cottages. I paused to decide whether to turn right over a bridge or follow the original road. A dog barked, I continued along the road. In a while, I came to what appeared to be a group; of farm outbuildings, and as I felt rather tired, I decided to rest a while. I found a convenient hay loft and clambered in. What seemed a very short time later, I heard the sound of horses’ harness clinking and a man’s voice. Realising that someone would probably come to collect some hay – maybe armed with a hay-fork, I slipped outside and made off towards the road. A clump of trees offered some shelter, so I settled in. Once or twice during those hours, a motorcycle went up and down the road probably in search of me. I stayed where I was till dawn, and then decided that since I had no chance at all of existing uncaptured for any length of time, I left my shelter and took to the road which now ran through a pine forest from which came to [sic] sound of axes. Finally breasting an incline, I was aware of two young lads on cycles approaching me. They looked at me with curiosity as they passed, and then turned and sped off up the hill. Shortly after, down the hill towards me appeared a small crowd of people, mostly older men, some women and a few youngsters. The men were armed with heavy sticks and prongs. I continued walking towards them, their ranks opened, and I walked unharmed down the centre of a village. Here, they all crowded round me, curious, asking questions which I could not understand. I pointed at myself, then up to the sky, and mimed a falling aircraft. At that point, the atmosphere changed as down the road came a man in a greenish uniform brandishing a revolver, which [deleted] I [/deleted] he stuck in my back, and marched [inserted] me [/inserted] up the way he had come.
[page break]
We went into a house, he motioned me to a chair, and keeping me covered, started a conversation on the ‘phone. He made no attempt to speak to me or to offer me even a drink of water. At the end of the telephone conversation he marched me back into the village and put me in what appeared to be a home-guard billet. There was a bunk, a straw paliasse [sic] and a window protected by barbed wire. I was left in charge of a civilian and during the day, several village women came to look at me. One offered [deleted] my [/deleted] me a piece of black bread, and when I showed my dislike, she burst into tears and hid her head in her apron.
Later in the day, I was collected by two policemen and taken off in a car. On the way, one of them offered me a cigarette, and told me he had been a P.O.W. in Shornecliffe during the 1914-18 war. We arrived at a police station where I received a piece of bread [deleted] ersatz [deleted] [inserted] and [/inserted] ersatz butter. Later on three members of my crew were brought in, and I learn that it was doubtful whether the skipper and rear gunner had survived. Towards evening I was again escorted by the two policemen on a train journey, and at one station where we changed trains, a very hostile crowd, among them Hitler Youth, advanced menacingly towards us. My Escort produced revolvers, and the danger subsided. At the end of the journey, I was deposited at a Luftwaffe station, and put into a cell. Here I was visited by an Officer who told me that the skipper had been killed, and he gave me the skipper’s tunic. Early next morning, a military truck arrived with an armed escort, and I with other P.O.W’s [inserted] we [/inserted] were whisked off to our first taste of imprisonment.
The camp was near Frankfurt [deleted] on Eder [/deleted] [inserted] am Main [/inserted] [deleted] as [/deleted] [inserted] and [/inserted] was known as Dulag Luft, it being a transition camp. We were
housed in wooden huts, in single cells with shuttered windows. Within a
[page break]
short time, an officer appeared and in a friendly manner, [deleted] Rol [/deleted] “For you the war is over”. He produced a form purporting to be from the Red Cross, and asked me to fill in all the details which included Squadron, station, aircraft and other military details. I filled in Rank, Name and number whereupon his attitude changed. He told me that unless the form was completed, they could not send it to the Red Cross in Geneva, and my parents would not know what had happened to me. He then accused me of being Jewish since my name had a Jewish sound. I assured him I was not, and he left. Feeling bored by the isolation I managed after a struggle to open the shutter, not with the [inserted] in [/inserted] [deleted] at [/deleted] tention of escaping because that was pointless. I was taken out of the cell for some reason or other and when [inserted] I [/inserted] returned I found the shutter had been closed and firmly fixed. Later, with others I was taken to a clothing store where my flying suit was removed and I was given a large Polish Army overcoat with a khaki shirt. A few days later, I was taken in company to the local station, and herded into wagons marked “Forty men or ten horses”. My journey into captivity had begun.
For several days we travelled East in somewhat uncomfortable conditions. The doors were kept locked and armed guards kept watch. We had little food or water during this time, but at intervals the train would stop and we would be allowed out for a breather under very close supervision. Finally, one afternoon we arrived at [underlined] MAR ’43 [/underlined] a small town named Schubin, which was in East Prussia, possibly then in the Polish Corridor. We were marched along cobbled streets and up the hill into Offlag 21b. It was a small camp built round an old country house with a courtyard. Some PO.Ws were housed in it, the rest in wooden shacks. During my time there, there was one suicide, [inserted] and [/inserted] several unsuccessful escapes. The Camp Commandant was the old type of
[page break]
German officer portrayed in British films. Monocled, in a swaying cloak. He appeared [deleted] on [/deleted] at every parade to greet us with “Gute Morgen, Meine Herren”, to which many a ribald answer was chorused. The only exercise was to walk [inserted] around [/inserted] the circuit within the barbed wire. The countryside was drab and uninteresting. In the fields we could see Polish women working under the eyes of armed guards. Food was not plentiful, not varied and not appetising. We ate to live. Lumps of kohlrabi in hot water, sauerkraut and a slice of black bread was the usual fare, [deleted] su [/deleted] sometimes a piece of meat could be seen swimming in the hot water. Drink was a kind of mint tea which was at least hot. An occasional Red Cross parcel was a god-send. Life went on much the same, rumours of moves, [inserted] and [/inserted] parcels circulated daily. News that the German Commandant had mined the perimeter wire to discourage escape attempts aroused bitter indignation.
In April 1943 we entrained once again, this time Westwards. After several days of uncomfortable travel, we arrived on 7th April at Stalag Luft III at Sagan, Silesia. This is the camp from which the “Wooden Horse” [deleted] Alo [/deleted] escape took place, and also the escape in 1944 of 50 R.A.F. officers, who were captured and shot by the Gestapo.
Life was a little better here. A bigger compound gave us more freedom of movement if only in the same direction, and Red Cross Parcels arrived more frequently. Huts were divided into rooms, and each of which contained up to 14 prisoners. Each room allocated duties on a rota. Cleaning, cooking!!! fetching water, and fuel (briquettes of powdered coal) for the stove. Cookery consisted of mashing a few rotten potatoes with perhaps some corned beef or spam from parcels. Each officer was expected to involve himself in some way in [deleted] A [/deleted] escaping activities. Some were used as diversions to take attention away from genuine attempts. These activities were fairly risky as the compound was flooded by searchlights which swept it from end to end, and was patrolled
[page break]
at night by armed guards and vicious guard dogs. Not many were successful. Members of security dressed in overalls and armed with very [deleted] log [/deleted] long screwdrivers used to prod the ground at intervals to detect tunnels, so that all activities had to be stopped when the “ferrets” entered the compound. Their arrival was heralded from the entrance gate to the working areas by a variety of signals e.g. removing washing from a clothes line shutting or opening a window etc. One camp had been constructed in a large clearing of a pine forest, so the soil was sandy and loose, easy for digging into but also prone to collapsing tunn [inserted] e [/inserted] ls. The summers were very hot, and the winters very cold. Despite the heat of the stove, insides of windows were coated with ice. It was possible to build a skating rink by filling a chosen area with water, and letting it freeze overnight. The skates were supplied by the Red Cross. Also, golf enthusiasts were able to construct a “make-do” course, clubs supplied by the Red Cross, balls home-made from pieces of leather from boots cut down to shoes wrapped round a smooth pebble, and sewn together with unravelled string – permission having been obtained from the Commandant. Several interesting things happened during the years. The tunnelling meant the removal of large amounts of sand, which had to be disposed of without arousing the suspicions of the “ferrets”. On one occasion it was stored in the roof of one of the huts, which collapsed under the weight, and [deleted] was [/deleted] brought down the wrath of the establishment upon us. We were locked out of our huts for a whole day whilst they inspected every one.
There was a small orchestra in an [indecipherable word] unoccupied room, which was being used to house the “wooden horse”. Whenever it was carried [indeciphable word] out or brought in containing its human cargo + sand, the orchestra kept watch for German interference, and at such times, the music would stop abruptly, and all operations cease.
[page break]
We were able to follow the progress of the war through daily news readings. A reader would appear in each hut, look-outs would be posted to warn against approaching “ferrets”. The news was gathered by means of a clandestine radio-receiver, which picked up the B.B.C. Broadcasts. The set had been built from off materials, - pieces of wire filched from unsuspecting quarters, silver paper and tin sheeting from cans of powdered milk supplied through the Red Cross. Valves which could not be made, were brought into the camp by bribed workers in the camp hospital usually. The set was kept in a KLIM tin, which was hidden in such a way that only the operators knew where it was. Suffice to say that not a day passed without a news bulletin – even when we were on the March in 1945. 1943 – 44 passed slowly enough, and although we were aware of the D Day landings and the progress of the Russian armies towards Germany, there was always the question How Long?
The beginning of the end came towards the end of 1944 and January 1945. Russian guns could be heard in the east, getting nearer and nearer each day. Finally on 28th January 1945 orders were given to evacuate the camp, and the trek to the West began. In the short time we had for preparation, we managed to collect such things as would help us on our way. Tins of food saved from parcels, cigarettes (sometimes used to barter for food) and the warmest clothing we had. It was the middle of winter and the snow was deep. We walked along in double file, guarded by what seemed to be “Dad’s Army”, some of whom found the going extremely hard, and there were occasions when prisoners kindly carried the guards’ knapsacks. We weren’t the only people on the roads. Reminiscent of 1940 in France, the way was crowded with assorted
[page break]
civilians fleeing westward away from the Russians advance. Some walked, some pushed wheelbarrows and prams laden with family possessions. The better off [indecipherable word] [inserted] rode [/deleted] in old-type carriages, pulled by lean horses or in farm wagons.
[underlined] Day 1. [/underlined] 28th January. Left Sagan at 9.00am pulling home-made sledges loaded with all transportable belongings & food. Arrived Halbau 1800hrs. Billeted in RC Church after roll call in falling snow. No heat. No water. Spent cold night on hard pews. [underlined] 17 Kms. [/underlined]
[underlined] Day 2 [/underlined] 29th January. Moved to a school in Halbau. No comment.
[underlined] Day 3. [/underlined] 30th January. Left Halbau 0600hrs for Priebus. Arrived [deleted] Liffa [/deleted] Lippa 1600hrs. [underlined] 20 Kms [/underlined
Spent another cold night in a church.
[underlined] Days 4/5 [/underlined] 31st January. Left Lippa 0600hrs, arrived D [deleted] ei [/deleted] [inserted] ie [/inserted] bus. Continued to Muskau [underlined] 30 Kms [/underlined]
Billeted in Glass factory. Very warm Had first wash in hot water and a shave. Dried our wet clothes. Spent whole day & night resting up. Collected 1 1/2 Red Cross Parcels. between 6 people. Hank Harris “obtained” some beer.
[underlined] Day 6. [/underlined] 2nd February. Left Muskau 1200hrs. Arrived Graudin 1800hrs. Slept in barn amongst plenty of straw. Sled finally collapsed. [underlined 18Kms [/underlined]
[underlined] Day 7. 3rd February. Left Graudin 0900hrs. Arrived Spremburgh 1400 hrs [underlined] 10 kms [/underlined]
Soup at Army barracks. Marched to station and entrained in goods wagons, 40 men per wagon after [inserted] 17.30 hrs Train left Spremburg at 21.30 hrs
[underlined day 8 [/underlined] . Arrived Falkenberg at dawn. Train [deleted] stops [/deleted] [inserted] stopped [/inserted] and shunted for hours. Eventually arrived at
[page break]
Stalag 3A. Luckenwalde at 1615 hrs [underlined] 100 Kms. [/underlined]
Shower, search and bed 0200hrs.
Luckenwalde was a mixed camp containing all sorts of nationalities besides Allied prisoners. Conditions were worse than those at Sangan.
(Photos in back of wartime log will show something of those)
Incidentally on the march we passed several groups of tanks heading for the Russian front, often accompanied by companies of Mongols in field-grey on nimble little ponies. We didn’t give much for their chances if captured by the Russians. Days went by without much incident, until on 21st [underlined] April [/underlined] the Germans began to leave the camp and head westwards. In order to prevent mayhem in the vacuum left by their departure General Ruge (Norway) assumed command a Camp Defence Scheme was set up. The citizens of Luckenwalde camp were evacuated by order of police. German general threatened to fire on the camp unless 8 rifles taken from his men were returned. Rifles returned. Russian artillery shelled the town which was now defended by only 1000 Volksturm (Home Guard) and Hitler Youth.
22nd April. Town of Luckenwalde surrendered; and 0600 hours Russian tanks burst through the wire, companies of infantry were seen in the surrounding woods, followed by more tanks and armoured cars. After much sporadic fighting around the camp, the German defences collapsed. General Ruge visited Marshal Konief’s H.Q., and was told we would be evacuated westwards.
April 26th/27th . Russian operational troops moved out, and occupational troops took over
[page break]
The period of Russian occupation was not a pleasant one. Although we had been “liberated”, yet we were not free. We were still confined to camp, and food supplies were both erratic and sparse.
29th April. We were allowed to walk outside the wire for the first time. It was still a hazardous pastime as fighting was still continuing near the camp, and our Russian “allies” who controlled the camp were in the habit of holding prisoners at gun-point and relieving then of rings, watches and other possessions which took their fancy. All this time, negotiations were going on between the British and Allied Senior Officers and the Russians to speed up the repatriation of all prisoners. Time dragged, and spirits rose and fell according to the content of spreading rumours. Meanwhile supplies of food began to improve. The Russians were definitely stalling on the business of repatriation. Attempts by American & Allied Supreme HQ met with a show of force when attempts were made to proceed with an evacuation of the camp. This situation prevailed until [underlined] 6th May [/underlined] when [deleted] another [/deleted] an American convoy was sent away empty. In the meantime, all British prisoners were taken before a tribunal, consisting of a [indecipherable word] political officer and two Russian officers to be vetted – for what reason remains a mystery. During this hiatus, many prisoners had walked off in the direction of the Allied lines, begging lifts from passing Army transports. A decidedly risky affair as there were still armed Germans in the area, and the Russians weren’t [deleted] fussy [/deleted] choosey about whom they shot
9th May Norwegian prisoners repatriated.
10th May – 19th May. uneventful boredom [deleted] e [/deleted]
[page break]
except for the marriages of 3 Officers to women refugees.
19th May an announcement of impending departure the next day was received with a mixture of hope and scepticism.
20th May. Leave Luckenwalde in Russian convoy, crossed the Elbe by a pontoon bridge at Coswick and entered American lorries. Arrive Halle late evening. Were received with great welcome. The first taste of American white bread was heavenly, and so was the beer. We spent five pleasant days here with medical checks etc and good food.
25th May. Flew from Halle in DC3s to Brussels reception centre to receive a marvellous welcome from the Canadian staff.
26th May Flew in Lancasters to Oakley. Spent the night at Bicester.
27th By Train to Cosford, de-loused and re-kitted and sent home.
P.S. There would appear to be some connection between the enforced delay in our repatriation and the enforced repatriation of Russian refugees to the Red Army, and Yugoslav refugees to Tito.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
It happened one night
Description
An account of the resource
Eric Sanger's personal account of his last operation, of being shot down and his time as a prisoner of war. Detailed account of last operation to Nuremburg on 25 February 1943 in 9 Squadron aircraft from RAF Waddington. Mentions delayed take off and nearly leaving his parachute behind. Describes trip out to target, having to go round again as Pathfinders had not arrived. Continues with aircraft being hit and engine fire which spread to wing. Describes abandoning aircraft parachute decent and subsequent evasion before capture. Describes journey to and treatment at Dulag Luft. Goes on to describe journey to Offlag 21 B at Schubin and then life in camp. Then transferred to Stalag Luft 3 and describes events and life in camp. Goes on to describe long walk from Poland to another camp as Russian forces approached followed by repatriation.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
E W Sanger
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Fourteen page handwriten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BSangerEWSangerEWv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Poland
Poland--Szubin
Poland--Żagań
Germany
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Luckenwalde
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-02-25
1943-04-07
1945-01-28
1945-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Peter Bradbury
9 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
Dulag Luft
escaping
evading
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
RAF Waddington
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2198/40182/BNeilsonJFNeilsonJFv1.2.pdf
dcaeed662d00c7fb69a5c420288b3f26
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association
Description
An account of the resource
97 items. The collection concerns Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association and contains items including drawings by the artist Ley Kenyon.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Robert Ankerson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-29
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RAF ex POW As Collection
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
JF Neilson's memoir
A Love/Hate Relationship with a Halibag
Description
An account of the resource
Growing Up -The Hard Way WAR -1939
He joined the Local Defence Volunteers at first then realised he did not want to become infantry. He did mount road blocks and fire watches. He applied to join the RAF and was accepted. Training was at Blackpool, then Bicester, then Fairoaks.
At Heaton Park he was assessed as a future Navigator and was sent to Canada via New York on the Queen Elizabeth.
Then they were sent by train to Three Rivers, Manitoba via Moncton.
On completion of that stage of the training he came back via Liverpool. Further training was at Lossiemouth then operations at Leconfield. His aircraft engines started losing power on the way to Stuttgart and he bailed out. After some time they were captured by Germans.
They were sent by train to Frankfurt for interrogation then onwards to Stalag Luft VII. As the Russians advanced they were marched to Stalag III. They were eventually helped to escape by the Americans and he ended up in Brussels before being flown to the UK. This section ends with photographs taken during his training.
The Long March.
A document written by a Senior British Officer to the Russian authorities. Food supplies were inadequate and the Russians refused to allow the Americans to release the prisoners.
Report of a Forced March made by Occupants of Stalag Luft 7, Germany.
The report describes in detail the miseries endured by the POWs on a daily basis.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
JF Neilson
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Blackpool
Scotland--Gourock
United States
New York (State)--New York
Canada
New Brunswick--Moncton
Manitoba
England--Liverpool
Wales--Anglesey
Ireland
Atlantic Ocean--Firth of Clyde
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Stuttgart
Scotland--Edinburgh
France
Germany--Hamburg
Poland
Belgium--Brussels
England--London
Scotland--Airdrie
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Nuremberg
Europe--Elbe River
Scotland--Stirling (Stirling)
Germany
New Brunswick
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BNeilsonJFNeilsonJFv1
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Format
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28 typewritten sheets
4 Group
640 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
B-17
bale out
Blenheim
bomb aimer
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
C-47
civil defence
crewing up
Dulag Luft
entertainment
evading
firefighting
flight engineer
Flying Training School
ground personnel
Halifax
Hampden
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Home Guard
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Manchester
Me 110
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
navigator
Operational Training Unit
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Bicester
RAF Church Fenton
RAF Cosford
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Leconfield
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Padgate
RAF Riccall
Red Cross
Spitfire
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Whitley
wireless operator
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1343/22172/BTyrieJSBTyrieJSBv1.2.pdf
a3c3d60d1ceae9d6dcc5d3d3cbdad658
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tyrie, Jim
Tyrie, JSB
Description
An account of the resource
34 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Jim Tyrie (1919 - 1993, 87636 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, correspondence and prisoner of war log as well as a photograph album. He flew operations as a pilot with 77 Squadron before being shot down in April 1941.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Brian Taylor and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-06-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Tyrie, JSB
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[centred] JIM TYRIE [/centred]
James Sedric Bruce [Tyrie] - b. Montrose Scotland 18.10.19
Educated Secondary School Dundee and took Scotts Higher Leaving Certificate in German
Joined General Accident Insurance Co. Dundee
RAFVR 1938 as A/C 2 but automatic promotion to Acting Sgt. to learn to fly.
Called up 1.9.1939, No 3 IPW Hastings Oct 1939.
No 1 EFTS May 1940 (Tiger Moths)
Cranwell as Officer Cadet July-Oct 1940 (Oxfords)
Commissioned P/O Oct 1940, posted No 10 OTU Abingdon.
Joined 77 Sq. Topcliffe (Whitleys, 4 Group Bomber Cmd.) as 2nd pilot.
Flew 7 Ops.
10.4.41 Target Railway Station in E.Berlin
Sgt Lee 1st pilot
F/Lt. Tyrie 2nd pilot
Sgt. Young Observer
Sgt. Budd Wireless Operator
Sgt Hull Rear Gunner
No of A/C Taking Part 98
No of A/C Lost 10
Hit by flak over target & set on fire
Famous Last Words:
Sgt. Budd "Do you know the Port Engine is on fire"
Sgt. Young wounded in leg, headed N for Sweden but forced to abandon A/C 15 mins later.
[page break]
Bailed out and landed in garden of house in Bernau
Followed down by searchlights and caught immediately on landing.
Taken to Police Station where midst [sic] much noise and chaos, Young's leg was bandaged by elderly VAD Lady. Photographed by all and sundry
Taken to Flak School cells, later interrogated and spent night in cell.
Next morning complained to visiting Luftwaffe officer of poor breakfast - rewarded by white bread, jam and some jellied meat. - also permitted to visit freely rest of crew.
About 10 am proceeded in wagon to Berlin, Anhalter Rly station, where caught train for Frankfurt - On - Main and Dulag Luft - arrived about midnight at cooler.
Interrogated and searched nex [sic] morning and allowed into main camp in the afternoon.
11.4.41 Telegram to J.B.Tyrie Esq. 1 Robson St Dundee - "your son reported missing as result of air operations on 10.4.41 [sic]
2.5.41 Telegram - now prisoner of war. - reported 'missing' in local press which stated he was in big raid on Kiel at beginning of week
17.4.41 - 9.4.42 Stalag Luft 1 Barth
"Among the most dedicated tunnellers [sic] of the early inmates at Barth was Jim Tyrie [sic]
[page break]
Jim Tyrie's tunnelling [sic] efforts also included one from his own block. Besides digging he copied maps, planned prospective escape routes and brushed up his German - He tried whenever he could to chat to the guards to perfect his German and exploit any opportunities conversation might present. Information on gate-passes and travel permits would be passed on via the escape cttee [sic] to Mike Bussey, a brilliant artist who was one of the first officers at Barth to apply his skills to forgery.
Towards the end of March '42 after a camp wide search of Stalag Luft 1 by SS and Gestapo it was announced that officers would start leaving for a new camp in 3 days time
The move was in 3 groups
1st group Friday 20th March '42
2nd group Sat. 7th April 42
3rd group, incl. Jim Tyrie moved Tues 10th April
11.4.42 - 20.3.43 Stalag Luft 3 (East Camp) SAGAN
30.3.43 - 29.2.44 Stalag Luft 3 (North Camp) SAGAN
29.2.44 - 28.1.45 Stalag Luft 3 (Belaria) SAGAN
28.1.45 - 4.2.45 By sledge, foot and cattle truck via Kunau, Gross Selten, [?] Birkenstedt, Raustein [?] Spremberg to Stalag 3A, Luckenwalde.
4.2.45 - 12.4.45 Stalag 3A (OFlag) Luckenwalde
12.4.45 - 14.4.45 in Cattle Trucks in Luckenwalde Goods Sation (intended destination ST.7A Moosberg nr Munich.[sic]
[page break]
14.4.45 Stalag 3A (Luckenwalde)
21.4.45 Germans evacuate camp.
22.4.45 (0603 hrs) Russian Tanks and Motorized Infantry Arrive
20.5.45 Proceed by Russian Transport to Elbe, where met by American Trucks and go to Halle, arriving 10 pm
25.5.45 By Air in DC3's to Nivelles (Brussels) arriving 2 pm - By lorry to Brussels
26.5.45 By lorry to Schaacht, by air in Lanc to Dunsford, by train to Cosford (106PRC)
27.5.45 By train to Dundee.
10.4.41 to 26.5.45 - 4 years 1 month 16 days
Worked tirelessly for SSAFA and Royal British Legion, organising The Poppy Appeal - organised a trip for volunteers to visit Poppy factory and I spent many hours with him counting the poppy collections in Shenfield Essex.
A real gentleman and a man I was proud to know.
[page break]
About middle of January 1945 a wager of One D-Bar was made between
Flight Lieutenant W H Culling [?] and
Flight Lieutenant J S B Tyrie
- the latter stating that the war would not be over by 15th of March 1945
- it has been decided mutually that in view of the present lack of parcels, the wager shall be
One good dinner in London - to be consumed when convenient to both parties - Expenses to be paid by loser who will present winner with a Half a [sic] pound of milk chocolate, to be consumed the same evening.
Both signed the above 26th Feb 1945 Luckenwalde.
2nd March '45 - autographed photo of Max Schmelling [?] obtained during his visit to Luckenwalde
- Reason of visit unknown, perhaps connected with visit of unknown SS Obergruppenführer - air raid alarm that morning for 2 hrs.
[page break]
Post-war. Stayed on in RAF
Joined 90 Squadron flying Avro Lincolns as F/L and short time as acting Sq cdr. [?]
Still as A/S/L four years in Germany (3 in Berlin) as interpreter with Foreign Office 1948-52.
Met Glemnitz at Gatow [?]
Then back to F/L.
Full medical in London revealed failing eyesight, so changed to Air Traffic Control at RAF Workshop [sic]
1953-56, a Meteor FTS.
Air Traffic Control Germany 1956-58, then Chivenor, North Devon.
RAF Shawberry as Ground Control Approach/Radar Instructor.
Cyprus, Akrotiti, Nikosea: [sic] led evacuation of families from Limmasol [sic] during Turkish Insurgence 1964.
Then RAF Walton, I/C joint military/civilian installation of area radar control.
Bishops Court NI.
Retd 1969 Joined Barclays Bank and spent fifteen years as First Cashier in various branches
Retd. 1984.
Jim Tyrie died in April 1993.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jim Tyrie
Description
An account of the resource
A biography of Jim Tyrie. He was called up on 1st September 1939 and learned to fly on Tiger Moths. He was shot down on his 7th operation over Berlin. In POW camp he was described as a dedicated tunneller. There is a list of the camps he was kept in with dates and details of their transport. After the war he stayed in the RAF until his eyesight meant he could no longer fly. He was transferred to air traffic control.
Format
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Six handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BTyrieJSBTyrieJSBv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Hastings
Germany--Barth
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Luckenwalde
Belgium--Nivelles
Belgium--Brussels
Cyprus--Limassol
Poland--Żagań
Scotland--Dundee
Poland--Żagań
Germany--Bernau (Brandenburg)
Belgium
Cyprus
England--Sussex
Cyprus--Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Joy Reynard
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1942
1945
10 OTU
4 Group
77 Squadron
90 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
C-47
Dulag Luft
escaping
Flying Training School
Lancaster
Lincoln
Meteor
missing in action
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Abingdon
RAF Bishops Court
RAF Chivenor
RAF Cranwell
RAF Shawbury
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Watton
RAF Worksop
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 1
Stalag Luft 3
Tiger Moth
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1343/22224/STyrieJSB87636v1.1.2.pdf
216289192aae4eaeab54d3613c35214b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tyrie, Jim
Tyrie, JSB
Description
An account of the resource
34 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Jim Tyrie (1919 - 1993, 87636 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, correspondence and prisoner of war log as well as a photograph album. He flew operations as a pilot with 77 Squadron before being shot down in April 1941.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Brian Taylor and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-06-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Tyrie, JSB
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[lion crest]
A WARTIME LOG
[page break]
WAR PRISONERS AID
AIDE AUX PRISONNIERS DE GUERRE
KRIEGSGEFANGENENHILFE
WORLD’S ALLIANCE OF YOUNG MEN’S CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATIONS
ALLIANCE UNIVERSELLE DES UNIONS CHRETIENNES DE JEUNES GENS
WELTBUND DER CHRISTLICHEN VEREINE JUNGER MANNER
Quai Wilson, 37
GENEVE (Suisse)
Centre International
Address Telegraph: FLEMGO-GENEVE
Compte de Cheques postaux: 1. 331
Telephone 2.70.60
Dear Friend,
After the Canadian and American editions of the War-time Log, here is a special issue for British prisoners of war. Though its format is somewhat different, its purpose is just the same as the others: to bring you greetings from friends and to facilitate your recording some of your experiences during these eventful years.
Not everyone will want to use this book as a diary. If you are a writer, here is space for a short story. If you are an artist, you may want to cover these pages with sketches of your camp, caricatures of its important personalities. If you are a poet, major or minor, confide your lyrics to these pages. If you feel that circumstances cramp your style in correspondence, you may write here letters to be carried with you on your return. This book may serve to list the most striking concoctions of the camp kitchen, the records of camp sports or a selection of the best jokes cracked in camp. One man has suggested using the autograph of one of his companions (plus his fingerprints?) to head each page, followed by free and frank remarks about the man himself. You may write a commentary on such photographs as you may have to mount on the special pages for that purpose with the mounting-corners in the pocket of the back cover. This pocket may be used for clippings you want to preserve, or, together with the small envelopes on the last page, for authentic souvenirs of life in camp.
Your own ingenuity may suggest to you many other ways of using this book, which comes to you with our greetings and good wishes.
Yours very sincerely,
WAR PRISONERS’ AID OF THE YMCA.
[page break]
Received August 2nd. 1944.
[underlined] Bk4R6 [/underlined]
AIR MINISTRY [deleted] August [/deleted] [inserted] 16th September [/inserted] 1943
THIS IS TO CERTIFY that 8736 F/O. J. S. B. Tyrie R.A.F. born on 18th October, 1919 at present a prisoner of war in Stalag Luft III and whose prisoner of war number is 530 has been promoted to Flight Lieutenant with effect from 19th October 1942 and the requisite notification has been published.
[signature] GROUP CAPTAIN
P. 358254 Director of Personal Services.
Asst. Secretary.
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
A WARTIME LOG FOR BRITISH PRISONERS
Gift from
THE WAR PRISONERS’ AID OF THE Y.M.C.A.
37 Quai Wilson
GENEVA – SWITZERLAND
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[lion crest]
THIS BOOK BELONGS TO
JAMES S. B. TYRIE
F/L. R.A.F.V.R.
STALAG LUFT 3.
P.O.W. NO. 530
[YMCA crest]
[page break]
WE ARRIVE AT BARTH. 17-4-41[underlined] BACK ROW [/underlined] PALMER, S/L TORRENS, RUSSELL, SELF, RITCHIE, WILSON, LONG, MORGAN,
[underlined] FRONT [/underlined] SHORE, GOODWIN.
SHORE. ESCAPED, HOME, JUNE 1941
LONG. SHOT ON BREAK, APRIL 1944.
[page break]
[lion crest] 1 [lion crest]
10-4-41
“FOR YOU THE WAR IS OVER”
11-4-41 – 15-4-41
DULAG LUFT = FRANKFURT
17-4-41 – 9-4-42
STALAG LUFT 1 = BARTH
11-4-42 – 30-3-43
STALAG LUFT 3 (EAST CAMP) = SAGAN
30-3-43 – 29-2-44
STALAG LUFT 3 (NORTH CAMP) = SAGAN
29-2-44 – 28-1-45
STALAG LUFT 3 (BELARIA) = SAGAN
28-1-45 TO 4-2-45 BY SLEDGE, FOOT & CATTLE TRUCK VIA KUNAU, GROSS SELTEN, BIRKENSTEDT, GRAUSTEIN SPREMBERG TO STALAG 3A, LUCKENWALDE.
4-2-45 12-4-45
STALAG 3A (LUCKENWALDE) – [symbol]
12-4-45 = 14-4-45 IN CATTLE TRUCKS IN LUCKENWALDE GOODS STATION (INTENDED DEST. ST. 7A MOOSEBERG, NR MUNICH)
14-4-45 STALAG 3A (LUCKENWALDE) =
P.T.O.
[page break]
2
21-4-45 GERMANS EVACUATE CAMP.
22.4.45 (0603 HRS) RUSSIAN TANKS AND MOTORIZED INFANTRY ARRIVE.
20.5.45 PROCEED BY RUSSIAN TRANSORT [sic] TO ELBE, WHERE WE ARE MET BY AMERICAN TRUCKS AND GO TO HALLE, ARRIVING 10 P.M.
25.5.45 BY AIR IN DC3’s TO NIVELLES (BRUSSELS), ARRIVING 2 PM. BY LORRY TO BRUSSELS
26.5.45 BY LORRY TO SCHRACHT. BY AIR IN LANC TO DUNSFORD. BY TRAIN TO COSFORD (106 PRC).
27.5.45 BY TRAIN TO DUNDEE
10.4.41 TO 26.5.45
4 YEARS 1 MONTH 16 DAYS
[page break]
[drawing of two-headed man]
[signature]
RUMOUR.
[page break]
4
[blank page]
[page break]
5
Extract from the “Wire” Xmas 1941, Barth.
Damn it – you cant eat harps!
[drawing of airman on road to clouds]
[underlined] JST. [/underlined]
4.8.44
[page break]
6
[blank page]
[page break]
7
EAST CAMP DRs. MATTHEWS
NORTH CAMP – MONTEUIS & HUTT
BELARIA – MONTENUIS
LUCKENWALDE – MONTENUIS & STEWART
WIPE YOUR BOOTS
[drawing of caricature man holding large syringe]
[page break]
8
[blank page]
[page break]
9
[drawing of a Lancaster flying above clouds inside a circle]
[symbol] (said about June 44)
Very best wishes Jimmy & may it be less than 18 months!!
[signature]
AUG/44.
[page break]
10
[blank page]
[page break]
11
[SS badge]
[page break]
12
[drawing of caricature man with parachute on back going through door marked MANAGER]
With apologies to Fargasse and Leslie Irvin.
[page break]
13
[drawing of man and woman at dinner table, man is sitting, women is leaning over him]
[underlined] HOME TO REALITY
“WHAT! – PRUNES?” [/underlined]
[page break]
14
[blank page]
[page break]
15
[drawing of Percy Prune in flying gear in the forefront and a crashed aircraft in the background]
[page break]
16
[blank page]
[page break]
17
[drawing of map depicting where aircraft shot down and showing the area around Stalag Luft 3 and Stalag Luft 1]
[page break]
18
[blank page]
[page break]
19.
[drawing of nude woman paddling with man in background watching]
A kriegis “Mid Summer Night Dream”.
[signature]
Aug. 44
[page break]
20
[blank page]
[page break]
21
[drawing of view of camp from a window]
[signature]
[underlined] BELARIA [/underlined] 15/8/44
[page break]
22
[blank page]
[page break]
23
[colour drawing of ruins in the foreground and trees in the background]
[signature]
BELARIA.
[page break]
24
[underlined] Sagan. [/underlined]
“Enemy forces managed to gain possession of the town of Sagan”
[underlined] O.K.W. Communique 18-2-45 [/underlined]
[page break]
25
[crest of Sagan]
[signature]
4/10/44
[page break]
26
[blank page]
[page break]
27
[drawing of plan of prisoners’ camp]
Not to scale.
16-8-44
DURING AN AIR RAID
[underlined] SPORTS FIELD [/underlined]
[page break]
28
[plan drawing]
[page break]
29
[plan of German camp]
GERMAN CAMP
[page break]
30
[blank page]
[page break]
31
[cartoon drawing of 3 men sitting at table in Censor Department]
[underlined] “THIS ONE SAYS IT WON’T BE LONG NOW!”
[page break]
32
[blank page]
[page break]
33
[drawing of a Polish pilot's wings]
With best wishes from F/L DAAB Merryshaw.
Sagan-Belaria – 27-3-44.
[page break]
34
[blank page]
[page break]
35
[drawing of thatched houses with a bike rider on the road]
Cropthorne – A Worcestershire Village.
Best of Luck, Jimmy!
[signature]
10/44
[page break]
36
[blank page]
[page break]
37
25-8-44
[signature]
[drawing of airmen in messy room]
[page break]
38
[Kreigsgefangen Lagergeld]
[page break]
39
[blank page]
[page break]
40
[blank page]
[page break]
41
[drawing of map of Norway]
NORGE
Best wishes from [signature]
PILESTREDET 96
OSLO.
NORWAY.
[page break]
42
[blank page]
[page break]
43
[drawing of sentry in sentry box behind barbed wire]
To remind you, Jim, Bill Houghton Sept 44 Belaria
Copy
[page break]
46
THERE ARE NO RACKETS
[drawing of men playing badminton]
“NO – THEY MUST GO – I WONT HAVE THEM IN THE CAMP – NOT EVEN THAT KIND – THEY’RE MY ORDERS “I QUITE AGREE SIR”
[page break]
47
[drawing of two men marching, one in uniform the other in sports kit]
[page break]
48
[blank page]
[page break]
49
[drawing of two men, one a padre in front of a hut with door marked COMMUNISM]
“But I’m [underlined] no verrai religous [sic] Padre [/underlined]”
All the best
[signature]
[page break]
50
[blank page]
[page break]
[German leaflet]
[page break]
[permit stamp]
[three censor stamps]
[page break]
- AND WE, TO THE LAST ENGLISHMAN"
[cartoon drawing]
1944
“Und wir bis zum letslen Englander!!”
[page break]
[cartoon drawing]
[page break]
Ex. [underlined] Das Reich [/underlined].
[underlined] Archbishops in Action. [/underlined]
“We’ve blessed the bombs for the continent, now let’s dash off and do a prayer of protest against V1.”
[page break]
Englands Prestigekurve
[cartoon drawing of Winston Churchill]
Churchill flog von Athen nach London zuruck – (in homen Bogen)
CHURCHILL FLEW BACK FROM ATHENS TO LONDON (IN A BIG ARC) THE HIGH JUMP!
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[German leaflet]
[page break]
GOSSIP BRINGS BOMBS. SILENCE! AND WARN EVERYONE, WHO STILL GOSSIPS – PST.
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[pencil drawing of a woman’s face]
All the best Jimmy
Bob Hamilton
Stalag Luft III 1944.
[page break]
[drawing of three aircraft flying over the Polish flag]
BELARIA 17.IX.1944.
29. JUN. 1942 Saarbrucken.
F/LT. ALEXANDRAWICE H. HILMS
18.4.48 TUNIS
F/LT WYSZKOWSKI M.
TORUN
WARSAW, Air Ministry
F/Lt. DAAB [symbol]
F/O MORSKI B. Hilno
15.VI.1944 Holland
[page break]
[drawing of a Whitley]
[signature] 3/1/45
[page break]
[drawing of men in various forms of dress standing on parade.
APPEL.
EAMES
BELARIA ‘44
[page break]
[German film ticket]
[page break]
[drawing of a totem pole]
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
55
[underlined] In Memoriam. [/underlined]
To those officers who were killed after escaping from the North Camp on March 10th 1944.
[underlined] British [/underlined]
F/L BRETTEL
F/O BULL
S/L BUSHELL
F/L CASEY
P/O COCHRAN
S/L CROSS
P/O EVANS
P/O GRISMAN
- GUNN
- HALL
F/L HAYTER
P/O HUMPHREYS
- KIDDER
S/L KIRBY – GREEN
F/L LANGFORD
P/O LONG
P/O LEIGH
F/O MILFORD
F/L SWAIN
P/O STEWART
F/O STOWER
- STREET
- WALENN
- WILEY
P/O WILLIAMS.
[underlined] Polish [/underlined]
F/L CROLL
- KIEWNARSKI
- KOLANOWSKI
- MONDSCHEIN
- PAWLUK
- SKATZINKAS
- TOBOLSKI
[underlined] Canadian [/underlined]
F/L BIRKLAND
- McGILL
- WERNHAM
[underlined] Australian [/underlined]
S/L CATANACH
F/O HAKE
F/O KIERATH
S/L WILLIAMS
[underlined] Belgian [/underlined]
F/O PICARD
[underlined] Norwegian [/underlined]
LT. FUGLESANG
- ESPELID
[underlined] South African [/underlined]
LT. GOUWS
- McGARR
- STEVENS
[underlined] New Zealand [/underlined]
P/O CHRISTENSEN
F/O POHE
[underlined] French [/underlined]
P/O SCHEIDHAUER
[underlined] Czech [/underlined]
F/L VALENTA
[underlined] Lithuanian [/underlined]
F/L MARCINKUS
[page break]
56
I have confiscated from F./Lt. Tyrie 1 teep ot wich is belong to us
[signature]
I have confiscated from F/L Tyrie 1 teapot which is belong to us.
[signature]
[page break]
57
[underlined] Retrospect. Xmas ’41 [/underlined]
Flashback to January shows about 140 officers & 400 men facing the worst half of a Pomeranian winter. They are not without hope (or beer.)
In Feb, Fort Henry (Canada) in the news. S/L Paddon heads purge of 50 officers to Polish fortress at Thorn.
Parcels & cigs. beginning to arrive with some regularity, and with pleasantly full stomaches [sic] we watch our rapid advance in Lybia. With a Medical Comfort’s parcel we watched our even more rapid retreat.
About this time the Commandant, Maj. Oertal, was promoted to Oberstleutnant & posted. Succeeded by Maj. von Stachelsky, shortly also posted. In the matter of Commandants we were winning 2 – 1.
The Germans pour thro’ Yugoslavia to engage us in Greece. In June we lost Crete, but won W/C Day.
[page break]
58
He was accompanied by 17 other escapees from Dulag – & Major Dodge.
The summer passes quietly on Flieger Beer, with spasmodic activity in Lybia, heavy battles on the East Front, air attacks in the West, & the loss of S/L Lockett’s trousers in the North. In August a further purge emigrated in the direction of Lubeck, - in exchange we received one Padre.
In September began the Reign of Terror, & the men’s Dining room made Rajah Dowlah seem an incompetent lyro. In October the terror spent itself, but the memory lingers on. November saw the fast of news broken by the arrival of 40 new officers.
December – Germany storms the gates of Moscow – Russia fights on. We force the pace in Lybia – Gondar falls, & Mussolini mourns another desert - - - - -
- - - Roll on 1942.
[page break]
59
[underlined] THE DAILY BASH [/underlined]
[underlined] BREAKFAST 9 – 10 AM. [/underlined]
2 slices bread
spread
Tea
[underlined] LUNCH 12.30 pm. [/underlined]
1 slice bread
spread
cocoa
[underlined] TEA 4 PM. [/underlined]
2 slices bread (toasted)
spread
Tea
[underlined] DINNER 8 pm [/underlined]
3 – 4 oz. tinned meat
Potatoes & Veg.
Sweet
cocoa & cigs.
[underlined] Above for full parcels: [/underlined]
Supplies of Veg. very variable in quantity, tho monotonous
See p 73.
[page break]
60
[German newspaper cutting about Winston Churchill]
[page break]
61
[underlined] BOMBER COMMAND [/underlined]
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN
IT’S CLEAR TONIGHT AND THEY’RE FLYING HIGH
HUNDREDS OF THEM AND THOUSANDS PERHAPS
RIDING THE MOONLIGHT SKY
MEN, MACHINERY, BOMBS AND MAPS
COFFEE, SANDWICHES AND FLEECE-LINED BOOTS.
BONES AND MUSCLES, MINDS AND HEARTS
DEEP IN THE EARTH THEY HAVE LEFT BEHIND
LIE IN THE DARK AND LET THEM GO
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN.
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN
THEY’RE GOING OVER IN WAVES AND WAVES
HIGH ABOVE VILLAGES HILLS AND STREAMS
COUNTRY CHURCHES AND LITTLE GRAVES
AND LITTLE CITIZENS WORRIED DREAMS.
VERY SOON THEY’LL HAVE REACHED THE SEA
AND FAR BELOW THEM WILL LIE THE BAYS
AND CLIFFS AND SANDS WHERE THEY USED TO BE
TAKEN FOR SUMMER HOLIDAYS
LIE IN THE DARK AND LET THEM GO
THEIR’S IS A WORLD WE’LL NEVER KNOW
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN
CITY MAGNATES AND STEEL CONTRACTORS
FACTORY WORKERS AND POLITICIANS
SOFT, HYSTERICAL LITTLE ACTORS
BALLET DANCERS, RESERVED MJUSICIANS
SAFE IN WARM CIVILIAN BEDS
COUNT YOUR PROFITS AND COUNT YOUR SHEEP
LIFE IS PASSING ABOVE YOUR HEADS
JUST TURN OVER AND TRY TO SLEEP
LIE IN THE DARK AND LET THEM GO
THEIR’S IS A DEBT YOU’LL FOREVER OWE
LIE IN THE DARK AND LISTEN
[underlined] NOEL COWARD [/underlined]
[page break]
62
A selection of names used to describe various goons:-
Adolf
Flannelfoot
The Red Indian
Smiler
Rubberneck
Dim wits
The Dumb Hauptman
Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Babyface
Useless Eustace
The limping goon
Charlie
Bishop of Barth
Photo goon
Cookhouse goon
Cornerbox goon
Dopey
Slim
Mexican Pete
Taxi Joe
Bulk Issue
Slimey
Goon that barks like a dog
The Hundfuhrer
Appell goon
Death Warmed Up.
[page break]
63
[cartoon drawing]
Extract from Stratsunder Lachtrichten circa, November 1941
To celebrate [underlined] “Pearl Harbour” [/underlined]
[page break]
64
[underlined] THERE’S ALWAYS BLOODY SOMETHING [/underlined]
[underlined] A BLOODY GOOD DESCRIPTION OF LIFE IN ST. LUFT 3 [/underlined]
BLOODY TIMES IS BLOODY HARD
BLOODY WIRE FOR BLOODY GUARD
BLOODY DOG IN BLOODY YARD
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY TEA IS BLOODY VILE
BLOODY COCOA MAKE YOU SMILE
COCOA MADE IN BLOODY STYLE
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY ICE-RINK, BLOODY MUD
BLOODY SKATES NO BLOODY GOOD
SAT WHERE ONCE I BLOODY STOOD
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY SALMON’S BLOODY QUEER
LOOKS AT YOU WITH BLOODY LEER
IS IT GOOD? NO BLOODY FEAR
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY BRIDGE ALL BLOODY DAY
LEARNING HOW TO BLOODY PLAY
BLOODY BLACKWOODS BLOODY WAY
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
[page break]
65
NOW AND THEN – THO BLOODY STALE –
CENSOR HANDS OUT BLOODY MAIL
BETTER DRAW THE BLOODY VEIL
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY GIRL FRIEND DROPS ME FLAT
LIKE A DOG ON BLOODY MAT
GETS A YANK LIKE BLOODY THAT
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
BLOODY SAWDUST IN THE BREAD
MUST HAVE COME FROM BLOODY BED
BETTER ALL BE BLOODY DEAD
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
DON’T IT GET YOUR BLOODY GOAT
WAS IT SHAW WHO BLOODY WROTE
“WHERE THE HELL’S THAT BLOODY BOAT?”
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
NOW I’VE REACHED THE BLOODY END
NEARLY ROUND THE BLOODY BEND
THAT’S THE GENERAL BLOODY TREND
BLOODY – BLOODY – BLOODY
[underlined] GEE – I’M BLOODY BRASSED [/underlined]
[page break]
66
[underlined] FOODACCO (NO RACKETS) [/underlined]
Foodacco is run on a Camp basis, and is simply a mart where P.O.Ws are able to exchange surplus articles such as clothing toothpaste etc, for others of which they have more need; chocolate for cigarettes and tobacco, and finally and most important of all, food from Red Cross parcels.
It is obvious that food and other articles have an entirely different value here in P.O.W. camps than at home, so a point value is given to each commodity, according to its supply and demand.
The following lists contain some of the more important Articles and their prices.
[underlined] CIGARETTES [/underlined]
GRADE I 60 PER 100
GRADE II 35 “
GRADE III 20 “
AM. GR. I 50 “
“ GR II 20 “
[underlined] TOBACCO [/underlined]
GRADE I 65 PER 4 OZS
GRADE II 45 “
GRADE III 15 “
TOOTHPASTE TOOTHBRUSH [brackets] 50 PTS
SHIRT + COLLAR 300 “
PYJAMAS 300 “
PANTS + VEST (SHT) 250 “
[page break]
67
[underlined] – MEATS:– [/underlined]
SPAM, PREM, ETC 90 PTS
YORK ROLL 85 “
BULLY BEEF 85 “
MEAT ROLL (ENG) 55 “
STEWS (ENG) 60 “
SAUSAGE (ENG) 55 “
“ (ARG) 120 “
BACON (ENG) 60 “
[underlined] FISH:- [/underlined]
SALMON 35 PTS
HERRINGS PILCHARDS [brackets] 35 “
SARDINES 15 “
[underlined] BREWS: [/underlined]
TEA (2 oz) 70 PTS
COFFEE (CAN GRD) 60 “
COFFEE (TIN PWDR) 60 “
COCOA 70 “
ORANGE JUICE 20 “
[underlined] SPREADS [/underlined]
JAM (16 oz) 80 PTS
“ (12 oz) 65 “
“ (10 oz) 55”
“ (6 oz) 30 “
SYRUP. 40 “
BUTTER 75 “
MARG (16 oz) 40 “
MEAT PASTE 15 “
[underlined] CHEESE [/underlined]
AM. (8oz) 45 “
ENG. (3 oz) 15 “
CAN (4 oz) 15 ”
N. Z. (16 oz) 80 “
[underlined] MISC. [/underlined]
OATS (SMALL) 50 PTS
“ (LARGE) 60 “
SUGAR PR LB 120 “
EGG FLAKES 40 “
SWEETS 10 “
MATCHES 20 “
[underlined] MILK:- [/underlined]
KLIM 100 PTS
OTHER PDWR MK. 80 “
CONDENSED 70 “
[underlined] BISCUITS [/underlined]
CANADIAN 60 PTS
ENGLISH SERVICE 55 “
ARGENTINE 60 “
AMERICAN 25 “
[underlined] FRUIT [/underlined]
RAISINS. (LARGE) 70 “
“ (SMALL) 35 “
PRUNES (LARGE) 30 “
“ (SMALL) 15 “
PEACHES (DRIED) APRICOTS “ DATES, FIGS [brackets] 40 “
[underlined] CHOCOLATE [/underlined]
PLAIN PER LB 160 “
MILK “ “ 200 “
D. BARS EACH 40 “
Hope these prices may always remind you Jimmy of Harry – G. Goodwin CHIEF [deleted] RACKETEER [/deleted] MANAGER
[page break]
68
At Luckenwalde, things were somewhat different. During the 6 weeks without any parcels, cigs. became extremely valuable. Trading took place with Army NCO’s etc. in neighbouring compound, also with hospital etc. Later also with Norwegian Compound. A camp Foodacco was then opened, dealing with Norwegian food separately, for which a %tage [sic] of coffee or choc. was necessary to make a purchase. The points system was used, one point being equal to a cigarrette. [sic]
[page break]
69
[underlined] Parody:- With Apologies To Jerome Keru. [/underlined]
They asked me how I knew, I’d been at the brew
I of course replied, something here inside
Tells me that I’m fried.
They said someday you’ll find,
All who drink go blind.
A presence in your head, will materialize
When the sun doth rise!
So I roar
With glee, and go for more,
To think they could doubt my capacity
Yet with the dawn, my skittishness is gone
I am without my vivacity!
Now laughing friends cry “Ho”!
You know we told you so
So I growld [sic] and say
“Go to Hell”!
And them,
Woof my lunch again.
In memory of “Kriegie Brews”! May we have some of the better variety together in the future.
[signature]
22-9-‘44
[page break]
70
[underlined] KRIEGIE SLANG [/underlined]
ABORT. Lavatory.
APPELL Roll call, held at least twice daily
BASH To eat – usually more than customary amount
BEND, ROUND THE: Mad, insane
BITCHING Complaining
BODS Group of individuals
BREW Drink – any type
CIRCUIT Internal perimeter of camp
COOLER. (GAOL) Bleak confinement for escape etc.
DHOBIE. Accumulation of unclean laundry
DUFF GEN. Highly inaccurate information
FERRET Ante-escape goon, working inside camp
FOODACCO Exchange of food, tobacco etc. on points system
GASH. Surplus, usually of food.
GLOP Pudding, goon or otherwise
GOON A German, or anything german.
GRIFF Information, usually reliable
KRIEGIE. Prisoner of War.
- Do – BREW. Alcoholic brew, made of raisins, prunes etc.
NEW PURGE. Influx of new kriegies
PIT . . Kriegie’s bed. (pit bashing – excessive use of)
PRANGER. Anything usuable [sic] as a hammer
RACKETS Double dealing in anything at all
STOOGE. Person on room duties – cook, washing up etc.
WIRE JOB Cutting way thro’ wire at night
GODBOTHERER. One with strong religious beliefs.
POPE. The R.C. padre.
[page break]
71
[underlined] IS IT AFFECTATION [/underlined]
WHEN FIRST WE JOINED THE AIR FORCE, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER
TO INCLUDE A LITTLE SERVICE SLANG, IN MOTHER’S WEEKLY LETTER.
AND SO SHE LEARNED THAT WE WERE CHEESED, BRASSED OFF WITH BEING SPROGS,
WE DIDN’T LIKE THE BULL AT ALL, WE’D CLEANED TOO MANY BOGS.
WHEN HOME ON LEAVE WE’D TREAT THE GIRL TO CHAR & P’RAPS A WAD
AND SPEAK ABOUT HER FATHER, AS A PRETTY CLUELESS BOD
WHILE HER BROTHER IN THE ARMY – A BROWN JOB – HAD NO HOPE
HE SIMPLY HAD’NT [sic] GOT THE GRIEF, THE PONGO COULD’NT [sic] COPE.
OUR FLYING WAS A PIECE OF CAKE, THE ODD PRANG NOW & THEN
BUT USUALLY WE’D STOOGE AROUND, WE REALLY HAD THE GEN
WE’D BLAST THE GOON, DEFY THE FLAK, PRESS ON THRO’ ICE & SNOW
AND SOMETIMES WE’D COLLECT A GONG – BANG ON, OH WIZARD SHOW.
THEN CAME THE NIGHT OF GROUP’S BIG BOOB – SOME TYPE WAS NOT ON TOP
“ACHTUNG”, YOU SHALL EIN BURTON HAVE, I GIVE YOU ZE CHOP
OF WHICH WE TOOK A VERY DIM, WHEN DAWNED THE REALIZATION
WE’D HAVE TO LEARN SOME BRAND NEW SLANG – OR IS IT AFFECTATION.
SO NOW WE’RE KRIEGIES, DRINKING BREW, INSTEAD OF DEAR OLD CHAR
WE THRIVE ON GASH, ON CORNED BEEF HASH, & MORTGAGE OUR D-BAR
WE GIVE GOONS HELL WHEN ON APPELL, WE PITBASH, DAY & NIGHT
WE’RE ROUND THE BEND, BUT PRAISE NO END, OUR EFFORTS AT ARBEIT.
SO MOTHER DEAR, DON’T THINK US QUEER, JUST BLAME IT ON THE GOONS
IF YOU AT NIGHT AWAKE WITH FRIGHT TO HEAR “BOWLS UP FOR PRUNES”
WE REALLY ARE QUITE HARMLESS & STILL ARE FAIRLY YOUNG
SE WE’LL SETTLE DOWN WHEN WE GET HOME, TO LEARN OUR MOTHER TONGUE.
[page break]
72
[blank page]
[page break]
73
Rations from Germans at Luckenwalde consisted of a daily issue of 300 gms bread & 1/2 litre (approx 1 cup full) of very liquid soup. Each day a “spread” was issued, nearly always marg. 25 gms (about 1/2 match box) Very occasional issue of meat paste, sausage & fat. Every third day an issue of sugar, about 2 tablespoons each.
[page break]
74
[drawing of two men carrying plates walking in opposite directions through a door]
[underlined] ILS NE PASSERONT PAS! [/underlined]
[page break]
75
[blank page]
[page break]
76
[blank page]
[page break]
77
[underlined] Gimme the Gen! [/underlined]
“Hello! Let me carry your things for you”
“Thanks very much – what sort of camp is this?
“Oh – not bad, you know – but not a patch on Dulag. Have you been down long?
“Well, about 3 weeks or so: doesn’t sound long to you, I suppose”
“I’ll say. But that’s all the better: you must come & give us the good news”
“News?”
“Yes: everything thats [sic] going on in England. This is our room. Pretty untidy, I’m afraid. Now will you have some tea? And something to eat? I suppose you ran out of food on the way, as usual”
“Yes: how did you know that? Oh, thanks! Bread & cheese will do fine.”
[page break]
78
“Now tell me – what’s the spirit at home? Pretty good?
“Yes – I think it seemed alright.
“And how are our fighters doing over the channel? Are we shooting them down OK?
“Well, I don’t know really – was up North all the time.
“Tell me. What do the papers say about the Russian Front? Are the Germans having pretty heavy losses?
“Well, the papers say so.
“What sort of figure?
“I’m afraid I can’t remember. 1 – 4,000,000 I believe.
“Oh! Now what are the Americans doing? I believe Roosevelt’s got the Neutral Act repealed, hasn’t he?
“Yes, I believe I did read something about that – but I’ve rather forgotten now. Never read the papers much.
“Did you ever see the official reports about the sinking of submarines?
[page break]
79
“No”
“Oh, well! do you know anything about the Near East? Are there any rumours about an offensive in Lybia?
“I heard someone talking on the wireless once – don’t know who it was, though. I think he said we might make a push if we got enough troops there in time.
“Have you any idea what forces we’ve got out there?
“No, I’m afraid I haven’t.
“Did you ever hear anything of the F.A.A.?
“No, I’m afraid not.
“Were you on one of our new bombers?
“No”
“Have you ever seen a Stirling?
“Only in the distance, I’m afraid.
“Are they raiding England much now?
“I believe they are, occasionally.
[page break]
80
‘What size bombs are we dropping now?
‘I’m not sure, really: I’m an A.G.
‘What’s Jane doing now, do you know?
‘Jane?
‘Yes, Jane – in the Daily Mirror
‘Oh, I don’t know – never read the thing.
“Where were you on when you were shot down?
“Oh, well – I’m not sure – it was all in the darkness, you know.”
[symbol]
[page break]
81
[underlined] Report from Germany on Mass Escape. [/underlined]
In March of this year, English P.ows [sic] in considerable numbers broke out of various camps in Germany. Measures for bringing the fugitives in again were a complete success. In the course of these measures it was proved that a concerted action which had been partially prepared with help from abroad, was frustrated. While bringing in the Pows [sic] who had escaped from one camp, the German Police forces were forced to use their fire arms on various occasions, owing to resistance being offered and flight attempted. As a result, a no. of the prisoners lost their lives.
The Reich Govt. informed the British Govt. of these occurrences via Switzerland. Beyond this, it also held out the prospect of a final definite report, after the searches had been concluded. In the meanwhile, Eden, in the House of Commons, did not shrink from making the monstrous assertion that the British P.ow’s [sic] were murdered in Germany.
[page break]
82
In a communication which was made to the British, this unqualified censure is repudiated. The note runs as follows.
“On the 23rd. June, the English Foreign Minister, without waiting for the results of German inquiries, made a declaration in this matter, which the Reich energetically repudiates. The F.M. of a country, which began the bombing war, against the civilian population, which has murdered 10,000’s of women & children by terror attacks on dwelling places, hospitals & cultural monuments, which in an official “Handbook of Modern Irregular Warfare”, written for Forces, has given all English soldiers the literal command to apply the methods of gangsters to gouge out the eyes of an enemy who lies defenceless on the ground, and to smash in his skull with stones - - -
[page break]
83
such a Foreign Minister must be deprived of the right to have any part in the question at all, or indeed to make any accusations of any kind. In face of the unheard off [sic] conduct of the English Foreign Minister, the Reich Govt. declines to give further information re this affair.
Ex. Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung.
[page break]
84
[blank page]
[page break]
85
[underlined] Heard after lights out. [/underlined]
- - - They can’t afford not to do it, with the reserves they haven’t got - - -
[underlined] Luckenwalde. [/underlined]
Continual coughing – and many air-raid warnings.
[page break]
86
[underlined] NORWEGIAN COMPOUND V. BRITISH COMPOUND. [/underlined]
V. LT. ENDERSEN
SELF. WHITE
[list of moves on a chess board]
[indecipherable address]
After 2 hrs play, white had an advantage of a rook & 3 pawns and was judged by committee to be winner, black agreeing. The match was lost 9 1/2 – 2 1/2.
A delightful lunch followed the match, as per menu opposite.
[page break]
87
[drawing of six flags]
[underlined] Luncheon [/underlined]
given by
The Norwegian Officers
at
The Great International Chess Tournament
in
Luckenwalde 28/3 1945
[drawing of a flower]
Flight Lieutenant Jamas [sic] Tyrie
[page break]
88
[blank page]
[page break]
89
[underlined] – ESCAPE – [/underlined]
If you can quit the compound undetected
And clear your tracks, nor leave the smallest trace
And follow out the programme you’ve selected
Nor lose your grasp of distance, time & space . . .
If you can walk at night by compass bearing
Or ride the railways in the light of day
And temper your elusiveness with daring
Trusting that sometimes bluff will find a way . . .
If you can swallow sudden, sour frustration
And gaze unmoved at failure’s ugly shape,
Remembering, as further inspiration
It was, and is, your duty to escape . . .
If you can keep the great Gestapo guessing
With explanations only partly true
And leave them, in their heart of hearts, confessing
They didn’t get the whole truth out of you. - - -
[page break]
90
If you can use your “cooler” fortnight dearly
For planning methods wiser than before,
And treat your first miscalculations merely
As lists let fall by fate to teach you more . . .
If you can scheme on with patience & precision
It wasn’t in a day they builded Rome
And make ‘escape’ your single, sole ambition
The next time you attempt it, you’ll get home.
F/L [underlined] E. Gordon Brettel. [/underlined]
(written in April 1943 in the “cooler” at Gross Hartmansdorf, Saxony. Brettel was among the victims of the big escape from the North Camp, Stalag Luft 3, in April 1944.)
[page break]
91
[underlined] WEEKLY RATIONS PER MAN, AS ISSUED [/underlined]
2 oz. Sugar
2 oz. Jam
1 Loaf Black Bread (2000 grms.)
4 oz. Marg.
6 lbs. Potatoes (Variable)
3 oz. Dry Barley
2 oz. Cheese (Ersatz 50% inedible)
2 oz. Blood Sausage
2 oz. Fresh meat
3 oz. Ersatz tea or coffee (not used)
Dry or Fresh Vegetable when available.
[underlined] GENEVA CONVENTION. CH. 2 ART. 2. [/underlined]
THE FOOD RATION OF P.O.W’s. SHALL BE EQUAL IN [underlined] QUALITY [/underlined] AND [underlined] QUANTITY [/underlined] TO THAT OF DEPOT TROOPS.
[page break]
92
People I lived with.
R3W. – R28 C
[underlined] Barth. Ritchie (S) – Ritchie (S)
Russell (E) – Patterson (S)
Self – Middleton (E)
[blank] – Self
68/8 – 64/4
[underlined] SAGAN. [/underlined]
E.
Stapleton (E) – Anthony (C)
Patterson (S) – Kingswell (C) (Davies (E)
Page (E) – Dougall (C) Small (S.A.)
Middleton (E) – Hannigan (E) Read ) (E)
Lythgoe (E) – Amos (A)
Self- Mace (E)
[blank] – Graham (E)
[blank] – Self
[underlined] SAGAN [/underlined]
N.
103/8
AMOS (A)
BAINES (A) (Slater) (A)
BRICKHILL (A)
COLLETT (E)
EDWARDS (E)
Self
[underlined] BELARIA [/underlined]
4/6
WILLIAMS (E)
GOODWIN (E)
BUCKLEY (I)
CULLING (E)
ALLEN (E)
KOCH (A)
WATSON (S)
HAYDEN
LEWIS (E)
OLDING (C)
HUNTER (C)
SELF
(HUGHES (E)
MACKENZIE (I)
OSBORNE (A)
Luckenwalde 220 others
[page break]
93
[underlined] Cooking [/underlined]
To boil water a large jug labelled “Kein Trinkwasser” (no drinking water) is used.
For 130 men in a barrack, the Reich supplies 3 large brown pots – nothing else. This is supplemented by Canadian Red X pots & frying pans.
Baking and frying is mostly done in trays made from Klim tins.
There is one stove 3’ x 2 1/2', with an oven with 2 shelves, coal fired. Each room has to share with another one, having 3/4 of an hour in the afternoon & the same in the evening. (Catering thus for 24 men.)
All flour is obtained by grinding down biscuits.
[page break]
94
[underlined] MAIL AVERAGE TIME 2 – 3 MONTHS EACH WAY [/underlined]
[underlined] FIRST LETTER WRITTEN [/underlined] 12-5-41
[underlined] FIRST LETTER RECIEVED [sic] [/underlined] 16-6-41
[underlined] PARCELS [/underlined] MINIMUM 2 -3 MONTHS
1st. CLOTHING PARCEL 16-10-41 (SECOND SENT, 1st. LOST)
1st. CIG. PARCEL 19-8-41
1st. AMERICAN PRIV. PARCEL 21-9-41
TOTAL AMER. PRIV. PARCELS RECVD. 34
- DUTCH - - - 11
[underlined] RED X PARCELS RECVD. BY ROOM OF 3 MEN [/underlined]
[line chart]
[page break]
95
[underlined] Choc. Raisin Pie [/underlined]
Line tray with shortened pastry and bake. Boil raisins, add butter, sugar, choc. or cocoa, and milk. Bring to boil and thicken. Spread on pastry and serve cold with cream.
[underlined] Amer. Do-nuts [/underlined]
Fill dough-nut with ice-cream, pour over choc. sauce, or cream. Sprinkle with chopped nuts.
[underlined] Candied Carrots [/underlined]
Boil and mash carrots. Spread with honey or syrup and bake in oven.
[page break]
96
[underlined] Piyella [sic] [/underlined]
Semi-fry rice until fat is soaked up. Add little saffron, and bake in oven, adding little water and turning over constantly Fry chopped ham, bacon and pork, add same to above. Fry carrots, peas, onions etc and add to above. Bake well, with continual mixing to prevent top getting too crisp. (Pre-cook veg.)
[underlined] Klim icing [/underlined]
Mix dry klim, butter and sugar cold.
[page break]
97
[underlined] PHOTOS. [/underlined] ON MARCH: JAS. HILL
R.A.F. PHOTO UNIT
PINEWOOD STUDIOS
DENHAM.
LUCKENWALDE: JOSE MULLER
ROBERT CARMAN
JEFFERSON
IOWA, U.S.A.
[page break]
98
[black and white photograph of head and shoulders of Max Schmelling]
[page break]
99
[underlined] Autograph photo of Max Schmelling: [/underlined] obtained during his visit to Luckenwalde on March 2nd. 1945.
Reason of visit unknown, perhaps connected with visit of unknown S.S. Obergruppenfuhrer. Air raid alarm that morning for 2 hrs.
[page break]
100
K.H. ANTHONY,
90. QUEENSBURY AVE.
TORONTO, 13 (GROV. 8011)
N.N. AMOS
122, ALEXANDRA ROAD
CLAYFIELD. BRISBANE (M 3595)
R.P. BAINES
3, CAMBRIDGE ST.
NORTH BRIGHTON S. 6
MELBOURNE. (X 3058)
ROBIN BUCHANAN
STONEHAM
HELENSBURGH (116)
S/L G.N.S. CAMPBELL
4. MEADWAY,
LITTLE THURROCK
GRAYS. ESSEX
O.S.R. COLLETT
PULHAM MARKET
DISS,
NORFOLK
A.G. EDWARDS
1, FILEY ROAD,
NEWPORT, MON.
S. WALES.
2/L DAVID FARRELL
430, JUNIPERO
LONG BEACH
CALIFORNIA (3 – 2928)
H. GOODWIN,
150, WIGHTMAN RD.
HORNSEY. LON. N.8 (MOV 6448)
LT. BILL MOSES (C/O JULES CLUB JERMYN ST. LOND.)
1705, WAYNE AVE.
S. PASADENA
CALIFORNIA.
PADRE MACDONALD
PORTREE
SKY.
K.W. MACKENZIE
’LAKEVIEW’
ENNISKILLEN
N. IRELAND
TICH READ,
HILL LANE
RUISLIP
MIDDLESEX
SAM, SMALL,
P.O. BOX 999
DURBAN.
S.A.
R.D. SHUMAN
STATESBORO,
GEORGIA.
ART HUNTER
530 N. BRODIE ST.
FORT WILLIAM
ONTARIO (SOUTH 2254)
R.J. ALLEN
BREVET CLUB
CHARLES ST.
LONDON.
48, BAKER ST.
WESTON.
J.M. OLDING.
638, TRANSIT RD.
VICTORIA
B.C.
JOE HUNT
241, POWELL AV.
OTTAWA
ONTARIO
J.K. WATSON,
MANIWAKI
QUEBEC
[page break]
101
J. CARRIE,
35, HOWARD ST.
ARBROATH.
W.C. HOWELL
45 EASTBOURNE CRES.
MIMICO, ONTARIO
J.L. WILSON (WILLIE)
1046 ALGONA AV.
MOOSE JAW, SASK.
R.G. CLARKE.
173, WESTMORLAND AV.
TORONTO. ONT.
B.M. FITZGERALD
6, PROVENCHAR APTS
ST. BONIFACE, MAN.
E.L. HOUGHTON
20, KARAKA ST.
PALMERSTON. NORTH I.N. 2
J. McCAGUE.
C/O MRS. CUMMINGS
1144 11S DALE AVE. N
TORONTO
WYNN AYER
1543 NORTH PROSPECT AVE,
MILWAUKEE.
WIS. U.S.A.
GEO. HARSH
2814, PEACHTREE ROAD
ATLANTA, GEO.
U.S.A.
WILF KIPP
425 FADER ST.
NEW WESTMINSTER. B.C.
A.H. DEACON.
SOUTHWOOD
BROADSTONE
DORSET.
P.N. BOYLE
DINVIN
PORT PATRICK,
P.P. 200
STRANRAER.
FRANK DOLLING
16 VINCENT RD.
TOTTENHAM
LONDON N. 15
TEL. BOW 1361
GORDON GALLAGHER
2341, KEMPER LANE
CINCINNATI
OHIO
W.H. CULLING
18, WOODLANDS RD.
BUSHEY
HERTS. (WATFORD 2904)
JOHN H. RATHBONE
3067 STRATFORD AVE.
LINCOLN 2, NEBRASKA
L.O. STANLEY
68, STRATHCONA AVE.
TORONTO.
ONT.
W.A. HORSLEY
14 Wolseley St.,
DRUMMOYNE: Sydney
WA2038 ov JA 1492
JOSE MULLER
18, IRWIN ROAD,
BEDFORD
ENGLAND.
124 VAN SCHOOR STRAAT
BRUSSELS
BELGIUM.
[page break]
102
WINTER SPORTS. 1 MONTH
Patrick Conyton
The Rectory
Bonchwoch.
Ventnor 357. Isle of Wight
[underlined] Clothing [/underlined] Take with you Lounge Suit Dinner Jacket
Travel in flannels & sports jacket
Ski boots, ski socks, trousers cap and jacket to be purchased in [underlined] non winter resort [/underlined] swiss town approx £3.10
[underlined] Fare [/underlined] Reduced Swiss Federal Rly Excursion fare can be done £5 - £7 return.
[underlined] Localities: [/underlined] Suggest 14 days Adelboden in the Berner Oberland, Do not pay more than 1 £ a day all in. Write to Fran Gurtnev Grand Hotel & mention
[page break]
105
my name, if she is unable to do it at price ask for her advice saying you are Ex P.O.W. & old friend of mine
Hire Skis, (good ones essential)
Best Ski teacher in S = Christian Pierien
[underlined] 2nd fortnight [/underlined] AROSA (Grissons)
Travel across Switzerland 3rd class suggest POSTE HOTEL, or SCHWEIZERHOF try Pow flannel & ask for moderate terms, you can always change if unsuitable, book for 1 week. Poste Hotel is 1/2 mile from Nursry [sic] slopes. Schweizerhof 1/4 mile. Magnificent place, bags of sun & good snow. Take camera. Overheads according to what you want, I found 5/- - 10/- ample per day but unecessary. [sic]
Total cost: Fares £7.10
Hotel £30
Clothes & skis £5
Etc £6.10
£50 Can be done for £40 without discomfort
P.T.O.
[page break]
106
Best months: February & March., End of January quite good too.
Before leaving England take exercises to strengthen ankles, legs, thighs, saves a lot of stiffness later.
Get in touch with me first & I may be able to fix you up some things as I have my own skis, skates boots etc. It is also much cheaper to stay in private chalets, good bed & food but no hotel special comforts. This would need enquiring into from my friends etc. Speaking German a great help for mixing with Swiss in good cheap pubs, avoid smart set & lovely lovelies who fall down in front of you & say “Ooo how strong you are” when you pick them up.
ALWAYS PICK PLACES WITH SUN (eg Avoid Grindelwald)
Rucksac [sic] essential
[page break]
107
[underlined] Programme for meeting in London. [/underlined]
Stay [underlined] Wings Club. [/underlined]
[underlined] Evening: [/underlined] Visit: Shephards
Cumberland Bar
Hay in the Pound
Berkely [sic] Square
Scotts
Café Royal
Hamburger
[underlined] Next Day: [/underlined] Breakfast: at Dorchester
Lunch: at Majorca
Tea: at Shearns
Wings Club
Snack
Show
Scotts
Pubs
Bath House
[page break]
108
[drawing of blocks in camp with volleyball and basketball courts]
FORE:- Theatre & Loudspeakers & Volleyball
BACK:- Block One, Tents & Basketball court [signature]
[page break]
109
[plan drawing of interior of block]
[page break]
110
[drawing of bunk beds inside block]
[signature] 3/9/44
[page break]
111
[blank page]
[page break]
112
[German label]
Konnisbrot
[aerial photograph]
Windows, from Am daylight on March 15th, 1945
[two sets of Windows]
Picked up at Luckenwalde.
[page break]
113
[blank page]
[page break]
[map drawing]
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[blank page]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jim Tyrie's Wartime Log. One
Description
An account of the resource
A wartime log kept by Jim Tyrie whilst being kept a prisoner of war. He was shot down on 10th April 1941 and imprisoned for 4 years, 1 month and 16 days. It contains cartoons, sketches and maps.
He lists the men who were shot after recapture during the Great Escape.
Included are poems and parodies, a list of their daily rations, an account of the Mass Escape, recipes and small strips of Window dropped by the RAF.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jim Tyrie
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One handwritten book.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
deu
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Artwork
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
STyrieJSB87636v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Poland
Germany--Barth
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Oberursel
Poland--Żagań
Germany--Bernau (Brandenburg)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
arts and crafts
bale out
Dulag Luft
escaping
pilot
prisoner of war
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 1
Stalag Luft 3
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1343/22221/STyrieJSB87636v2.2.2.pdf
9ce0536309a442a2c66aa959c8974410
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tyrie, Jim
Tyrie, JSB
Description
An account of the resource
34 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Jim Tyrie (1919 - 1993, 87636 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, correspondence and prisoner of war log as well as a photograph album. He flew operations as a pilot with 77 Squadron before being shot down in April 1941.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Brian Taylor and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-06-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Tyrie, JSB
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[lion crest]
A WARTIME LOG
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
A WARTIME LOG
FOR
BRITISH PRISONERS
Gift from
THE WAR PRISONERS’ AID OF THE Y.M.C.A.
27, Quai Wilson
GENEVA – SWITZERLAND
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[lion crest]
THIS BOOK BELONGS TO
JAMES S.B. TYRIE F/L
STALAG LUFT 3
BELARIA
[symbol]
P.T.O.
P.O.W. NO. 530
[YMCA crest]
[page break]
[underlined] CHANGE OF CAMP. [/underlined]
STALAG 3A (OFLAG) LUCKENWALDE
[page break]
CONTENTS
Page
ARRIVAL IN GERMANY 1 – 3
KLIM TIN DISHES 4 – 5
ADDRESSES 9 – 15, – 33 [brackets] RESTAURANTS ETC. 31 – 2
CARTOONS 21 – 25 CLUBS ETC. 27 – 28
DAY’S MENU (HOME) 37 – 39 BRIDGE GAME 29
ROLEX 58 ITALIAN CENSORS 59
G. ARTICLE (BOMBING) 62 – 67 GERM. CARTOON 60
PAROLE CARD 68 – 69 INVASION HEADLINE 61
WALKS (BELARIA) 70 – 71 GERM. CARTOON 72
GERMAN CAMP MONEY 76 LETTER FROM COMM 74
GERM FIGHTER CLAIMS 78 – 82 EXAM PASS 75
GERM. POSTER ON ESCAPE 84 – 87 CHEQUES 83, 92
JAP CARTOONS (V.B.) 89 – 90 CARTOON 88
1944 – 1945 XMAS MENU 93 GERM POSTER 94
MOVE FROM BELARIA 98 –
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[lion crest] 1 [lion crest]
SGT. LEE. 1st PILOT.
SELF 2nd “
SGT. YOUNG OBSERVER
SGT. BUDD WIRELESS-OPERATOR
SGT. HULL REAR GUNNER
10-4-41
[underlined] FAMOUS LAST WORDS. [/underlined]
SGT. BUDD: “DO YOU KNOW THE PORT ENGINE IS ON FIRE?”
[underlined] TARGET. [/underlined] RAILWAY STATION IN E. BERLIN.
NO. OF A/C TAKING PART. 98
NO. OF A/C LOST 10
HIT BY FLAK OVER TARGET & SET ON FIRE. SGT. YOUNG WOUNDED IN LEG. HEADED N. FOR SWEDEN, BUT
[page break]
2
FORCED TO ABANDON A/C 15 MINS LATER. BAILED OUT AND LANDED IN GARDEN OF HOUSE IN BERNAU. FOLLOWED DOWN BY SEARCHLIGHTS & CAUGHT IMMEDIATELY ON LANDING. TAKEN TO POLICE STATION, WHERE, MIDST MUCH NOISE & CHAOS, YOUNG’S LEG WAS BANDAGED BY ELDERLY V.A.D. LADY. PHOTOGRAPHED BY ALL AND SUNDRY.
TAKEN NEXT TO FLAK SCHOOL CELLS. LATER INTERROGATED AND SPENT NIGHT IN CELL. NEXT MORNING, COMPLAINED TO VISITING LUFTWAFFE OFFICERS OF POOR BREAKFAST. REWARDED BY WHITE BREAD, JAM &
[page break]
3
SOME JELLIED MEAT. ALSO PERMITTED TO VISIT FREELY REST OF CREW.
ABOUT 10 AM. PROCEEDED IN WAGON TO BERLIN, ANHALTER RLY. STATION, WHERE WE CAUGHT TRAIN FOR FRANKFURT-ON-MAIN AND DULAG LUFT. ARRIVED ABOUT MIDNIGHT AT COOLER.
INTERROGATED AND SEARCHED NEXT MORNING, AND ALLOWED INTO MAIN CAMP IN THE AFTERNOON
[symbol]
[page break]
4
[underlined] KLIM TIN TRAYS. [/underlined]
Made a total of 6 for mess at Belaria, quite successful.
[drawing of work bench and tin]
Start by cutting off bottom of tin with table knife. Then by laying the tin flattened out along the crack in stool, cut off ragged edges, and get uniform lengths. Also cut out strips 1 inch wide.
[drawing of flattened tin]
The edges of big sheets are folded over in 1/4" flanges, ditto with small binders Then all sheets are joined together to form a large flat plate [symbol]
[symbol]
[page break]
5
[drawing of flattened tin] which looks something like the above rough sketch. The joints are firm by hammered down and the sheet is folded into a tray according to depth required.
[drawing of box shape] The ends are folded round, it being arranged that there is an over lap at narrow ends to hold corner flaps in place. Similarly a flap in left along sides and a thin strip put on to strengthen.
[drawing of KLIM box]
[page break]
6
[blank page]
[page break]
7
[cartoon drawing of officer sitting at table]
“HEBREWS: 13. V. 8
[page break]
8
[blank page]
[page break]
9
Jimmy Anderson, 3 Arkley Pl. Dundee
Bill Amos, 122 Alexandra Rd. Clayfield Brisbane. M3595
K.H. Anthony, 90 Queensbury Av. Toronto 13 Grover 811
Betty Bowles, Hever Farm, Singlewell, Kent
Mrs. Brough, 15 Maryfield Terr., Dundee
Dorothy Bates, 104 Ledbury Rd. (B.F.) Bayswater, W11
Mrs D. Brough, 7100 Staedman Av. Dearborn Michigan
Mrs. Morris Baldwin, 338 Highland, Wyandotte, Michigan.
Mr. & Mrs. Bruce, 2511, 23rd. Street, Wyandotte, Michigan.
R.P. Baines, 3 Cambridge St. N. Brighton 5. 6 Melbourne. X3058
Robin Buchanan, Stoneham, Helensburgh
Geo. Combe, 2 Tayview Terrace, E. Newport
Mr. & Mrs. Callow, 11 The Green, St. Leonards
[page break]
10
S/L C.N.S. Campbell, 4, Meadway, Little Thurrock, Grays, Essex.
OSR. Collett, Pulham Market, Diss, Norfolk
A.T. Davidson, 43 Kings Road, East Sheen, London SW.
Mrs. G.W. Dagwell, 6 Torr View Ave. Peverell, Plymouth.
Mr & Mrs Elder, Bruce Terrace, Errol.
Mrs Elliott, 63 Loans Road, Dundee
Ted Edwards, 1, Filey Road, Newport, Mon. S. Wales.
Miss Pauline Elliott-Beevor, 16 Hyde Park Gardens, London, W2
2/L David Farrell, 430 Junipers, Long Beach, California. 3 – 2928
[page break]
11
Val Galloway, 190 Arbroath Rd. Dundee
Chris. Gordon, 11 Cardean St. Dundee
OH Grunke, 1543 York Ave. New York
Harry Goodwin, 150 Wightman Road, Hornsey London N. 8 MOV 6448
Douglas Hill, Dalgleish Road, Dundee
Pat Hamblin,
Baroness H. van Heickeren, (Rote Kreug) de Steeg, Holland.
Helen Harle, 3 Commercial Road, Spittal B. on Tweed.
Jack Hynd, 68 Forfar Road, Dundee
Lt. Carl Holmstrom, Sherwood St., Branaford, Conneticut. [sic]
Mrs. J. Johnston, 445 Riverbank, Wyandotte, Michigan.
Joan Kelson, 4 Severn Drive, Thornbury, nr. Bristol
[page break]
12
Mrs. Thomas Kenworthy, Glenside, Pennsylvania
Grethe Kavli, Eilerts Sunds Gt. 2 Oslo, Norway.
Margaret Lemmens, R.N.O. Hospital Gt Portland St. London W1
Mrs. Harry Locker, 156 First Street, Wyandotte, Michigan.
Mrs. Lasseter, Missippi, [symbol] Morton.
Mrs. J. Morris, 90 Beech Road, Clevelys Lancs.
Bruce Mackenzie, c/o Mrs. E.G. Twyanan 990 Erin St. Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Mrs. McKechnie, Trafalgar Apts. Cote de Leige Road, Montreal.
Lt. Bill Moses, c/o Jules Club, Jermyn St. London.
1705 Wayne Avenue, South Pasadena, California
[page break]
13
Padre MacDonald, Parish House, Portree, Sky
Miss Ethel Newman, 9440 Savery, Detroit, Michigan.
K.W. Mackenzie, Lakeview, Enniskillen, N. Ireland.
Miss Jean Nicholas, 49 Leith Ave., Portchester, Fareham, Hants.
Alice Partington, 80 Friendship St. Bolivar, New York.
Miss Emily Price, c/o Landes Bros. 130 W 30th St. New York.
Fred Randall, 127 Ferry Road, Dundee
Pat Roper, 134 Hurst St. Cowley Rd. Oxford.
Anne Reid, Greenwich, Conneticut. [sic] P.O.B. 427
Tich Read, Fairfield, Hill Lane, Ruislip Middsx.
[page break]
14
Gladys Richardson, 79, Moreland St. London E.C.
Sandy Shepherd, 8 Lochlee Terrace, Dundee.
Isla Stewart, 70 Dalkeith Road, Dundee.
Joan Scott. Ashgrove, Low Utley, nr. Keighley, Yorks.
[symbol] Ethel Sheldrake, 36 Alleyn Road, West Dulwich, London SE21
Sam Small, P.O. Box 999, Durban.
[symbol] Always thro. Mrs Pick, Woodhouse Field Thirsk.
R.D. Shuman, Statesboro, Georgia
Joyce Tillbrook, 45 Wroughton Rd. London S.W.11
[page break]
15
Eve Vere, “Peacehaven” Tavistock Rd. Roborough, Devon.
Eve Wheeldon, 12 Colwick Rd. West Bridgeford, Nottingham.
Mrs. Alex. Wann, 51 Vinton St. Dorchester, Mass.
Lt. Rathbone, Lincoln, Nebraska. (Geologist)
Jack F.M. White, 82 Parkland Grove, Ashford, Middsx. 2455 (Germ. Class)
[page break]
16
[blank page]
[page break]
17
An extract from “All Souls’ Night”, a collection of short stories by Hugh Walpole. It sums up very well the situation which so often arises in camps between friends.
“The perfect travelling companion! Isn’t he or she practically an impossibility? As with marriage you may compromise, and nine out of ten times you do. Is it your fault or the others? Surely not your own, for you start out with such splendid confidence as to your own character. And, to the very last, it isn’t your own character that seems to have failed. Aside from one or two little irritabilities you have been perfect, but the other - ! You had no idea before you started of the weaknesses, the selfishness, the odd, exasperating tricks, the refusal to agree to the most obvious course, the insistence on unimportant personal rights! No, it has most certainly [underlined] not [/underlined] been your fault; and yet, in retrospect, are there not suddenly exposed certain flecks, little blemishes in your own personality, that you had never suspected.”
[symbol]
[page break]
20
[blank page]
[page break]
21
“HAPPY DAYS”
[eight cartoon drawings of life in camp]
[page break]
22
[blank page]
[page break]
23
“HAPPY DAYS”
[eight cartoon drawings of life in camp]
[page break]
24
[blank page]
[page break]
25
[nine cartoon drawings of life in camp]
[page break]
26
[blank page]
[page break]
27
[underlined] CLUBS [/underlined]
1. MURRAYS
2. TATTY BOGLE
3. GAY 90’s
4. TUDOR & CROCKER
5. BLUE PENCIL
6. HAVANNA
7. CHEZ NO 1
8. R.A.F.
9. OVERSEAS
10. CAFE DE PARIS
11. L.’ APERATIF [sic]
12. UNIVERSAL
13. CAPTAINS CABIN
14. PUNCHBOWL
15. BELLE VUE
16. ORANGE
17. QUEENS
18. CAFÉ ANGLAIS
19. AMER. EAGLE
20. N.Z. FORCES
21. BINNYS
22. CAFÉ BLEU
23. WHITE HOUSE
24. NAUTICAL
25. FRENCH HOUSE.
26. SWISS HOUSE
27. BOULLABAISE
28. LADDER
29. COCONUT GROVE.
[page break]
18
[blank page]
[page break]
[drawing of a man’s head and shoulders]
GILBERT DOCKING 45
LUCKENWALDE.
[page break]
28
[underlined] RESTAURANTS [/underlined]
A. MIRABELLE
B. HATCHETTS
C. PREMIER
D. PRINCES BAR
[symbol] E. ODDENINOS
F. CAFÉ ROYAL
G. BODEGA
H. CHICKEN COOP
I. HUNGARIA
J. APPENRODT
[symbol] K. MONACO
L. MAISON LYON
M. TROCADERO
N. SCOTTS
O. CORNER HOUSE
IND. P. VIER SWAWNEY
Q. MARTINEZ
C4. R. LEONS
GK S. WHITE [deleted] HOUSE [/deleted] [inserted] TOWERS [/inserted]
T. WINSTON HOTEL
U. EXPRESS DAIRY
V. POLYTECHNIC
W. QUALITY INN
X. QUALITY INN.
[underlined] Contd: [/underlined] on p 31 & 32
[page break]
29
Bridge Game Him – “Two diamonds”
Goch – “Three hearts”
Goer. – “Four ho trump”!
Hit. – “The club”!?
IV – “Pass”!
E – “Pass”!!
G – “Pass” !!X?
[drawing of three men playing bridge]
[page break]
30
[blank page]
[page break]
31
[underlined] BOLIVAR. [/underlined] PORTLAND PLACE: GOOD BAR & SNACKS.
[underlined] BRISTOL GRILL & BAR [/underlined]. CORK ST. DINE WINE & DANCE
[underlined] SYMONDS HOTEL [/underlined]: BROOK ST. BARS, REST. & SNACK C. (DROP IN)
[underlined] SOUTH MOLTON LOUNGE [/underlined]: DITTO ST. BAR & SNACKS (USEFUL)
[underlined] HOG IN THE POUND [/underlined]: DAVIES ST. & OXFORD ST. BAR. EXC. GRILL ROOM
[underlined] CHICKEN INN [/underlined]: HAYMARKET. REST. & SNACKS.
[underlined] I AM THE ONLY RUNNING FOOTMAN [/underlined]: BERKELY SQ. 1st. CLASS BARS
[underlined] THE CHAIRMAN [/underlined]: BEHIND AIR MINISTRY. BAR. 19th. CENT. ATMOS.
[underlined] SHEPHARDS [/underlined]: SHEPHERDS MKT. (HYDE PK. CORNER) GOOD BARS & DINING. ESPEC. LUNCH. GOOD MEETING PLACE.
[underlined] SNOWS CHOP HOUSE [/underlined]: GLASSHOUSE ST. VERY GOOD QUAL. PLAIN FOOD.
[underlined] MAJORCA [/underlined]: (BEHIND REGENT PAL.) SPANISH ATMOS. MED.
[underlined] TROCADERO [/underlined]: SHAFTESBURY AV. GRILL ROOM. CABARET.
[underlined] GENAROS [/underlined]: NEW COMPTON ST. GOOD ITALIAN CUISINE. FLOWER FOR EVERY LADY. [symbol]
[underlined] SHEARNS [/underlined]: TOTTENHAM CT. ROAD. VEG. REST. EXCELLENT FRUIT TEAS. REC BY BOFF.
[underlined] SCOTTS [/underlined]: PICCADILLY CIRC. (MALE) FAMOUS MIXED GRILLS.
[underlined] SIMPSONS REST. [/underlined] (MALE) EXC. GRILL ROOM.
[underlined] CHESHIRE CHEESE [/underlined]. FLEET ST. EXC. PLAIN COOKING WEDNES. SPEC. STEAK & KIDNEY PUDDING. LUNCH.
[underlined] MRS. COOKS [/underlined]: TOTTENHAM COURT ROAD. SANDWICHES
[underlined] HAMBURGER [/underlined]: DEAN ST. & PICC. CIRC. BEST FISH, CHIP & Bouse IN LONDON. OPEN LATE.
[underlined] BATH HOUSE [/underlined]: DEAN ST. PUB WITH GOOD SNACKS.
[underlined] WHITES [/underlined]: WHITEHALL. RIGHT HAND SIDE FROM TRAFALGAR SQ. 1st. FLOOR. 7 COURSE DINNERS. 1/2 BY BOFFIN
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[underlined] COMMACHIO [/underlined]: FRITH ST. SOHO. ITALIAN. GOOD – CHEAP.
[underlined] WELLINGTON [/underlined]: KNIGHTSBRIDGE. BAR, DANCING – R.A.F.
[underlined] DE HEMMS [/underlined]: SHAFTESBURY AV. OYSTER BAR.
[underlined] STONES CHOP HOUSE [/underlined]: JERMYN ST. (EAST) BEER 18TH. CENT.
[underlined] LORD BELGRAVE [/underlined]: LEICESTER SQ. CHOPS & STEAKS FREE HOUSE. HIGHLY REC.
[underlined] COMEDY [/underlined]: JERMYN ST. MED. CLASS LUNCH. OLD FASH.
[underlined] CAFE ROYAL [/underlined]: REGENT ST. VERY GOOD FOOD
[underlined] RENDEVOUZ [/underlined]: FRITH ST. SOHO. FRENCH CUISINE. WINES.
[underlined] ESCARGON [/underlined]: GREEK ST. FRENCH CUISINE.
[underlined] LES JARDINS DES GOURMETS [/underlined]: OLD COMPTON ST. FRENCH.
[underlined] (PETE WILLIAMS) THE VOLUNTEER [/underlined]: UPPER BAKER ST. (1/4 ML. PAST MARYL. RD) GOOD LUNCH, SNACKS, BEER.
[underlined] THE DUTCH OVEN [/underlined]: LOWER BAKETR ST. ALL MEALS
? [underlined] THE CHILTERN [/underlined]: BAKER ST. TUBE STATION. LIC. LUNCH, DINNER
[underlined] QUALITY INN [/underlined]: COVENTRY ST.
[underlined] LYONS CORNER HOUSE [/underlined] -DO- FOR EARLY BREAKFAST.
[underlined] CAPTAIN’S CABIN [/underlined]: PICC. CIRCUS. BEER & SNACKS
[underlined] FULLERS [/underlined]: VICTORIA. TEAS (CAKES ETC.)
WELLINGTON HORSESHOE [brackets] TOTTENHAM CT. RD. PUBS, LUNCHES
MAPLES: 149 -DO- REST.
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E.F. (Ted) Bridgman, R.C.A.F.. – Berlin 3/1/44 Ste. 14 Harold Apts., Winnipeg, Canada.
Rudy J. Lacerle – F/O J16789
11022 – 92nd Street
Edmonton, Alta, Canada
GILBERT C DOCKING F/O AUS 419930
“TREMAINE”
HARTWELL – VICTORIA – AUSTRALIA.
YOU’RE VERY WELCOME AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS JIM – AUSTRALIA IS A GOOD PLACE AT ANY TIME.
[symbol]
Bill Stapleton
c/o “Bashar”
Winslow Way,
Walten-on Thames
Surrey.
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[underlined] Wings Club: [/underlined] Hyde Park Corner. 5/- night, finest in town, preference to flying personnel.
[underlined] KING GEORGE VI CLUB [/underlined]: 102 Piccadilly. 5/- night. Rest., snackbar meals no bar (YMCA) All services.
[underlined] Brevet Club [/underlined]: Charles St. off Berkeley Sq. 7/6. Bar-snacks (RAF)
St. Regis Hotel – Cook St. OK
Plaza – Leicester Sq. NO
Bonnington – Kingsway OK
Symons Hotel – Brook St. Good bar & rest.
Annexe Char X Hotel – Park Lane. Good.
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[German voucher]
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[German voucher]
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ABOUT THE MIDDLE OF [underlined] JANUARY 1945 [/underlined] A WAGER OF [underlined] ONE D-BAR [/underlined] WAS MADE BETWEEN:-
[underlined] FLIGHT LIEUTENANT W.H. CULLING [/underlined] AND
[underlined] FLIGHT LIEUTENANT J.S.B. TYRIE [/underlined]
THE LATTER STATING THAT THE WAR WOULD NOT BE OVER BY THE [underlined] 15TH.DAY OF MARCH, 1945 [/underlined].
IT HAS BEEN DECIDED MUTUALLY THAT, IN VIEW OF THE PRESENT LACK OF PARCELS, THE WAGER SHALL BE:
[underlined] ONE GOOD DINNER IN LONDON [/underlined], TO BE CONSUMED WHEN [underlined] CONVENIENT TO BOTH PARTIES. [/underlined] EXPENSES TO BE PAID BY LOSER, WHO WILL PRESENT WINNER WITH [underlined] HALF A POUND OF MILK CHOCOLATE [/underlined], TO BE CONSUMED THE SAME EVENING. [/underlined]
AS WITNESS OUR SIGNATURES:
[underlined] [signature] F/LT R.A.F. [signature] F/L R.A.F. [/underlined]
[underlined] THE 26th. DAY OF FEB. 1945. LUCKENWALDE [/underlined]
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WH Culling
“Rostellan”
18, Woodlands Rd.
Bushey.
Herts.
Tel: Watford 2904.
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[blank page]
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[drawing of bunk beds]
Rough sketch of block of six 3 tier beds in Stalag 3A.
[circled A] my pack.
[circled B] Boff’s back with blankets
[circled C] Red X box of food.
[circled D] Handles added after 1st. day, great help
[drawing of bed made into sledge containing numerous items]
Hedge. Runners made from sides of bed, nailed to 2 boxes.
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[underlined] BLOWERS [/underlined]
[drawing of home-made fan]
Large wheel with drive to fan in klim tin, which gives forced draft to bottom of small fire. Fire uses coal, if available, wood, rubbish etc. Boils Klim tin of water in approx. 5 mins.
[drawing of home-made biscuit grinder]
[underlined] Biscuit Grinder [/underlined]
Handle rotates tin with holes punched to give grater effect. Box to collect flour.
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[newspaper cutting and photograph of Flight Lieutenant Don Dougall, D.F.C with his fiance Miss Patricia Sellares who were married upon his return to Britain.]
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[photograph of middle aged woman]
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[newspaper cutting and photograph regarding a P.O.W. who married a Lithuanian woman so that she could be free, and has now petitioned for a divorce]
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[photograph of middle aged woman standing at a garden gate with a house in the background]
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[photograph of young woman smiling with hands behind her head]
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[symbol] AUTOBAHNS
[symbol] MAIN RLWYS
[symbol] MAIN ROADS
[symbol] OTHER ROADS
[symbol] RIVERS
[symbol] CANALS
[underlined] SCALE
APPROX: 1 INCH = 16 MILES [/underlined]
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[map drawing of part of Germany]
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[drawing of interior of block with tiered bunk beds]
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[drawing of clothing hanging up inside block]
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56
[German newspaper cutting]
[German postage stamp]
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[underlined] “MUMMY – I’M SO AFRAID!” [/underlined]
Consider the horrors and alarms of an air-raid! Think of your child’s nerves! Think of how you would reproach yourself, if something happened to your child, because you did not send him in time to the safety of the ‘Childrens’ Evacuation Scheme”. Then you will remember the truth of Dr. Goebbels’ words:
“Nothing is harder for parents than to be separated from their children . . . . but there is the force of conscience, which is stronger than all human laws”
Children do not belong in the dangerous air-raid areas – children should be in the Evacuation Scheme, until the enemy air terror has been broken once & for all!
If you love your child, send him to safety!
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ITALIAN CENSORSHIP
[censored letter]
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[German newspaper cutting showing a cartoon]
[underlined] THE THREE “EMANCIPATORS” [/underlined]
SING LOUDER, YOU CAN STILL HEAR TOO MUCH GROANING
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[German newspaper cutting]
[underlined] BEGINNING OF THE INVASION: IMMEDIATE COUNTER-BLOW [/underlined]
LANDING IN NORTH FRANCE. – AIRBORNE TROOPS PARTLY ENGAGED IN COURSE OF LANDING: MANY PARACHUTE UNITS SMASHED – ARTILLERY ENGAGEMENTS WITH ENEMY SHIPS.
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[German newspaper cutting]
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[underlined] THESE DEAD ACCUSE [/underlined]
The chief of an English Bomber Squadron stated on Tuesday before the House of Commons “The allied bombing has nothing to do with revenge. It is guided exclusively by strategical & military necessity. No english [sic] or American crew is ever instructed to destroy a German target, which cannot be definitely regarded as a military or industrial objective.
We read this. We have previously heard the same from the lips of Mr. Sinclair or Mr. Atlee. It is the English theory.
But we also read: Victims of a British Terror attack, were Adeline, Ruth and Sieglinde. Or Greta, Edith and Gertrude. Or Martha, Paula, Anna & Liselotte. Or Elisabeth. Ingrid & Emmy. We read: Aged 60, or aged 61. Aged 72, 73, 79 or 80. We read “Fell in January 1944 – born 1888. Or 1886. Or 1884, 1875 or 1869 . . . .
We read the same thing daily in many German papers. The examples are not picked:
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To them, unfortunately can be added thousands of names and dates. In an air-raid on 29th. January fell Louise, nee Franck, born in October 1872. On the same day fell also Georg Krang, born 1886, and his wife Helene, born 1890. Thus have so many fallen.
In one night, the head & all members of a family have fallen, with one blow, entire households have been wiped out. Three women here, 4 men there, six, nine. Fathers, mothers, children lie crushed beneath the wreckage.
That is the English practice.
The English practice is murder. Those who carry it out are murderers, nothing else. And those who are its victims, were murdered, in a cowardly way, in the dark and from the rear. That is the way the English wage war. What the Chief of an English Squadron says in the House of Commons, or what the English Minister for Air says, is a lie, destined to keep alive the old lie of the “fair” English gentleman.
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If he ever existed, then he has met his inglorious end forever under Churchills methods of war.
Those who fly, and drop their bombs, are his companions: he however, the British Prime Minister, the discoverer, agitator & organiser of their deeds, is the most guilty. He murders from the desolate desire of an unsound mind – a mixture of cowardly brutality and Sadism, typical of his whole career. War brings him satisfaction.
Even in peacetime he dreamt of war. In 1934 he wrote an article re the scientific methods of destruction in modern warfare. It ran:
“All that happened in the first four years of World War, was only a prelude to what was being prepared for the fifth. Thousands of aircraft would have bombed German towns. Poison gas, to which only a secret mask offered protection, & which the Germans could not produce in time, would have destroyed
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all resistance. (Following para is condensed)
New forms of explosive might have been discovered, bombs, automatically steered by wireless control, chemical warfare with its germs and plagues. Etc. Etc.
Ten years ago, this was the theory, which the British P.M. now practices. While others in times of peace think and plan good works, his sick mind broods over death.
War was always his aim. He poisoned all England with his plan to wipe out the German race. Today they all think like him. If the BBC announced on 3rd. March 1943 “One is glad that women & children are forced to suffer so terribly” If in January 1941, British United Press demanded. “For God’s sake, lets begin to clean up the German people”. If 3 yrs. ago the Daily Mail announced that they would regard it an honour to do without cigs. alkohol, [sic] sweets etc. in the knowledge that the German capital was being destroyed.
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If the Arch-Bishop of York preached in June 1943. “It is only a small evil to bomb German civilians, & one cannot avoid killing them. – then all this is Churchill’s harvest.
The Fuhrer knew Churchill. In January 1940 he warned us that that [sic] Churchill was thirsting for bombing. Of course it was announced that women & children would be spared. When did England ever halt before women & children.
Since then, women have been killed in thousands – and defenceless men & children.
Every death notice writes a new sentence in the process of accusation against England, against the English and against Churchill. The accusation is Murder. Lies are of no avail against this proof. Judgement has been given. Its execution draws nigh.
(Free translation from the Volkischer Beobachten)
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[German P.O.W declaration that they will not attempt to escape]
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[underlined] Parole [/underlined]
I give my parole as a British Officer that on every occasion I use the new sportsfield to the West of this camp (altered later to: on every occasion I take a walk outside the camp) I will not
1. Attempt to escape
2. Make any preparations for future escapes.
3. Have any dealings with other persons (outside the fences)
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[underlined] Walks: Sagan – Eckersdorf. Petersdorf [/underlined]
About the end of July the sports field adjoining the camp was closed, while new huts were being erected to form an extension to the camp. To compensate for lack of games, a system of parole walks, with German guards, came into being. There were 3 times. 8 AM, 10.30 AM and 2.30 P.M. The 8 A.M. walk was perhaps the best of all, a nip in the air, sun just coming up, peace & quiet everywhere. Against these, however, must be set the very early hour of rising, and walking on a more or less empty stomache. [sic] This poem, written by my room-mate ‘Boff’, is his impression of an 8 AM walk.
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[underlined] Autumn on the Baher [/underlined]
MISTY IN THE HOLLOW, WREATHY PHANTOMS ON THE HILL
GRASS & FLOWERS, RICH GEMS OF MORNING, DRENCHED IN DEWY POOLS
WOODLAND EDGES, GHOSTS ARE GUARDING, SLUMBERING EARTH LIES STILL.
IF THE WISE MEN SLEEP PAST DAWNING, WHO THEN ARE THE FOOLS.
EARTH AWAKENED, BRIGHT THE HOLLOW, SUNBEAMS PAINT THE HILL
GOLDEN LEAVES ARE RIPPLING, STIRRED BY ZEPHYRS OF THE FALL;
GHOSTS OF THE DAWN, AS FLAMING GIANTS, STAND REVEALED, AND FILL
THE MINDS OF FOOL & WISE MAN, WITH THE MYSTERY OF IT ALL.
TWILIGHT SOFTLY FALLING, HILL & HOLLOW SINK IN SLEEP,
MANTLED NIGHT HER CLOAK UNFOLDS, AND LULLAYS ALL TO REST.
CHOOSE! TO SLEEP, FORGETTING ALL, OR WAKE WITH MEMORIS [sic] DEEP
AND POIGNANT; FOOL OR WISE MAN? ONLY GOD KNOWS BEST.
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[German newspaper cutting]
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27-2-45 [underlined] SELECTION OF RUMOURS FOR ONE DAY AT STALAG 3A. [/underlined]
1. The Danish Red X have placed a lorry at our disposal to fetch parcels.
2. The Norwegian Red X have despatched supplies of dried cod and herring.
3. There are 3000 parcels (Danish) available of which Norwegians have promised in a share.
4. We are to have 3 issues of 1/4 loaf this week to make up for short ration of spuds.
5. Mussolini has been bumped.
6. Announced in Amer. Block that Danish have despatched lorry load of dry fish.
7. American fighters seen other day shot up & blew up engine of train from Berlin to Luckenwalde.
8. 47 (or 4 parcel sacks) have arrived after being forwarded from Sagan.
9. British troops on outskirts of Cologne.
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To: Col. Goodrich. South Compound
From. Oberst von Lindeiner. Kommandant.
On the 28th. Nov. 1943, prisoners of your camp, after going to a concert in the North Camp, in spite of express orders to the contrary, played the British National Anthem.
This conduct - - - - - - is a serious provocation to the German Armed forces and civilian population, if at the same time that many thousands of innocent women and children are being killed - - - - those who are causing this misfortune behave in such a manner.
To avoid such incidents - - - I forbid the South Compound to practice instrumental music. Contravention will result in the punishment of those responsible and the confiscation of the instruments.
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[counterfoil for entry into examination]
[underlined] January 23rd – 27th. 1945 [/underlined]
Sat [brackets] Advanced German Elementary Spanish Intermediate Spanish
Papers left behind during evacuation in care of Padre.
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[German voucher]
P.O.W. Camp – money.
Voucher for 50 Reichspfennig.
This voucher is only valid as P.O.W. currency, and may only be used by them inside camps, or, on working parties, in the special shops permitted to do so. This voucher may only be exchanged for legal currency at the official office of the camp administration.
Contravention, forgery etc. will be punished.
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[two Portuguese postage stamps]
[underlined] Taken from a Portugese [sic] food parcel. [/underlined]
At one time, these arrived in fair quantities, consisting mainly of tins of sardines.
Stamps were generally removed from all parcels and letters, to check for possible messages underneath.
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[German newspaper cutting]
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[underlined] ARE YOU INTERESTED, MR. RIPLEY? [/underlined]
[underlined] Men against Aircraft Masses.
13 German fliers shoot down 2961 enemy maschines. [sic] [/underlined]
In the West, the South and the East of Germany, the men of the German Air Force take the air daily; inferior in numbers, but unbroken in fighting spirit and ready, despite their overwhelming superiority, to dive with fatalistic determination on the enemy formations and shoot down as many as possible. Against the masses of enemy aircraft we set the brave individual fighter of the air, who heeds not a ten – or even twentyfold superiority, and throws himself undeterred against the stream of enemy bombers to deal destructive blows.
The example of those men, whom no fliers in the world excel, shows what individual fighters can achieve, if they
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engage with determination the superiority in numbers of the enemy squadrons. Recently, the leader of the famous german [sic] arctic fighters announced his 200th air victory – his name, Major Ehrler. Thus the German Air Force has once again in its ranks 13 fighter pilots, who have reached the number of 200 or even 300 air victories. Over 100 other German fighter pilots have won more than 100 air victories.
The names of the pilots with more than 200 victories are:
1. Major Hartmann 303
2. – Rall 273
3. – Barkhorn 272
4. – Nowotny 258
5. Haup. Batz 224
6. Oberstl. Graf 207
7. Maj. Rudorfer 206
8. Leut. Schuck 206
9. Oberl. Hafner 204
10. Leut. Kittel 204
11. Major Bar 203
12. Hauptm. Wiezenberger 201
13. Maj. Ehrler 200
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These 13 most successful German fighter pilots have thus destroyed a total of 2961 enemy aircraft. 37 complete squadrons of the Soviet and Anglo-American Air Forces, with maschines [sic] and crews, were wiped out by these few German pilots alone. Consider that there are many four-engined aircraft amongst this 3000, and take a conservative estimate of an average crew of 5 men per aircraft, we thus find that each of these pilots has either killed or sent to captivity 1000 enemy soldiers. Just 13 men have destroyed 15,000 front line soldiers! – as the army man would say, 10 enemy regiments wiped out.
The size of these German successes is best seen by the announcements of the enemy press, regarding the “Aces” of the enemy air force. Thus the English announced recently that W/C Braham (?) had been taken prisoner. With 29 victories he was amongst the best of the RAF.
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The Americans announced the death of a Lt. Beeson, who was tops of the Amer. fighter pilots with 21 victories. Both pilots were decorated with the highest English and American orders. The Soviet Air Force names Major Popoff and Haupton, Pokrischkin, with 82 and so victories, as the best Russian pilots. Both have been twice decorated with the order of “Hero of the Soviet Union” The German air force can point to 150 pilots, who have won as many or more victories.
The German fighter pilots will take care that the words of an american crew, in a book just published, remain true.
Don’t deceive yourself; its no piece of cake over there. Respect these Goring boys. These nazi-fighters are fanatics, who make life very unpleasant for us.
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That the war would be over by the 2nd. Dec. 1944
Made November 1944
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[underlined] The following is the text of a poster issued by the German Authorities. [/underlined]
To All Prisoners of War.
The escape from prison camps is no longer a sport.
Germany has always kept to the Hague Convention and only punished recaptured P.O.W’s with minor disciplinary punishment.
German will still maintain these principles of international law.
But England has besides fighting at the front in an honest manner instituted an illegal warfare in non-combat zones in the form of gangster commandos, terror bandits and sabotage troops even up to the frontiers of Germany.
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They say in a secret and confidential captured English military pamphlet.
THE HANDBOOK OF MODERN IRREGULAR WARFARE
“. . . the days when we could practise the rules of sportsmanship are over. For the time being, every soldier must be a potential gangster and must be prepared to adopt their methods when ever necessary.”
“The sphere of operations should always include the enemy’s own country and any occupied territory, and in certain circumstances, such neutral countries he is using as a source of supply.”
England has with these instructions opened up a non-military form of gangster war!
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Germany is determined to safeguard her homeland, and especially her war industry and provisional centres for the fighting fronts. Therefor [sic] it has become necessary to create strictly forbidden zones, call death zones, in which all unauthorised trespassers will be immediately shot on sight.
Escaping prisoners of war, entering such death zones, will certainly lose their lives. They are therefore in costant [sic] danger of being mistaken for enemy agents or sabotage groups.
[underlined] Urgent warning is given against making future escapes [/underlined]
In plain English: Stay in the camp where you will be safe! Breaking
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out of it is now a damned dangerous act.
[underlined] The chances of preserving your life are almost nil! [/underlined]
All police and military guards have been given the most strict orders to shoot on sight all suspected persons.
Escaping from prison camps has ceased to be a sport!
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[German cartoon]
Hallo – Hey! What about helping me? Sorry, Sir – We are no longer responsible for that!
Ex. Das Reich. 10-44
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[German newspaper cutting]
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89
[German newspaper cutting with four Japanese cartoons]
TRANSLATION ON NEXT PAGE
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[underlined] Japanese Caricatures [/underlined]
How do his country’s enemies appear to the Japanese caricaturist? To answer this question, we publish today four caricatures from the Japanese newspaper “Manga” Except where it is obvious, as in the case of the drawing of Churchhill, [sic] we give a short description of each.
The union of the peoples of Greater East Asia under the leadership of Japan runs contrary to Roosevelt’s imperialistic plans. Using the same methods as in Europe he appears to the Tschungking Chinese, and their General Tschiangkaischeck, as the Angel of Peace. Now, when Tschungking China is in greatest danger, it feels more and more the thorns of the
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promised victory laurels.
Churchill cannot pursue a policy of his own in East Asia. He contents himself therefore with the roll of Sancho P. in Roosevelts Don Quijote [sic] policy. It is all the same where he goes on the mule, China.
The allies won’t reach Tokio, unless their entry looks something like what the Japanese caricaturist depicts.
[symbol]
Ex. Volkischer Beobachter, 16-12-44.
[symbol]
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XMAS 1944
[hand painted greetings card]
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F.LT. J.S.B. TYRIE
[list of signatures]
MENU
SOUP
ROAST TURKEY
CORNISH PASTIES
PEAS CARROTS ROAST POTATOES
GRAVIES
XMAS PUDDING & CREAM
MINCE PIES
CHEESE & BISCUITS
FRUIT & NUTS
COFFEE
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[German poster]
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Issue of 1/5 DANISH PARCEL FROM NORWEGIANS.
OUR PARCEL DONATED ORIGINALLY BY:
ARKITEKT, THORVALD DREYER
TRONDHJEMSGADE 12 0
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[underlined] Birkenstedt [/underlined] Thursday 1-2-45.
Taking this chance to jot down a few notes. Things started on 13/1, with the opening of R. offensive. Crowds round the loudspeaker once again & more rumours than ever before. No word at all of camp being moved despite rapid advances made by R. Suddenly on the night of Sat. 27th. at 7.30 pm. a shout is heard – move in 1/2 hr. At first hardly believed, it is soon confirmed & chaos ensues. The day before, 20 NCO’s from Bankau (Nr. Cracow) & 500 Dutchmen. Stories of forced marches and
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terrible hardships, no food etc. this made everyone decide to take bare minimum. Beds, boxes, lockers etc were broken up, sawn up etc and improvised sledges built. I had already made a rucsack [sic] – just in case. 1500 parcels, 1/2 million cigs, countless clothing and so on were left behind. After a false start about 1 AM. we eventually set off in snow & darkness about 7 AM. For the previous week we had been watching streams of evacuees pouring down the road in carts, mostly old men & women & kids. Information received, high mortality rate amongst children.
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From Belaria we went first thro’ Sagan to N. camp. The guards had heavy packs, which a lot put on our sledges, in exchange for bread etc. Rations had stopped coming into camp a few days before leaving. Learnt later that N. camp etc. moved off much same time as us. Did about 21 kls. first day, arriving for night in Kanan, a small village. On way thro’ one village, old German peasant asks with broad Am accent, who we are! Quarters are chaotic, in an old barn. Total strength of column approx 1200 Spent night (racket) in house on
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farm, in a room occupied by Russian family 2 men, old woman 2 kids. Conversation done thro’ Germ. kid who had picked up Russian, myself speaking in German. Everyone unbelievably helpful & kind.
Moved off at 8 AM next day to arrive in afternoon at Gross Selten, another 20 K’s approx. Same accomodations, [sic] large barns. Spent night in barn, uncomfortable, but slept OK. Tank company there who had been forced back from Kiele. They had lost everything. Bill Kingsfield Upper Warder Wooden Way 90 miles
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Paul [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] Putterill, Cedars Road 34, Chiswick, London W4 Excursion with Sam Brown. Spend a day of so-called rest. Tank unit gave away biscuits everyone one big happy family. 40 km. shell. Milk cows in Amer parts. Off next day, sharing our sled with Dave Simpson (my partner being Boff Goodwin) made 21 kls to Birkenstedt including our biggest hill so far.
[underlined] Luckenwalde. [/underlined]
Birkenstedt much the same as other places – big barn for sleeping
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no sanitary arrangements, washing facilities or hot meal. Guards are educating civil pop. who now want choc & coffee for bread. Overnight a tremendous thaw sets in and by morning, all is a sea of slush and mud. Stayed day here once more – waste of time and food, as not really any rest in the meaning of the word. Next day Americans set out independently – sorry to lose them (approx. 300). We follow, sledges being abandoned after a few yards. March into Muskan, 7 kls. Open bartering in market square with civil pop. Then on a further 17 kls. to Steinan – a gruelling total of 24 kls. with few rests. Arrive in dark, and split up into groups of 100 to go to individual
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barns. Our particular barn could not be found by ration party, so that we go without the only Germ. issue. Off at 9 AM next morning – 6 kms. Walk from Steinan to Spremberg where we go to large army barracks and join with 400 of East camp. Issued with Wehrmacht soup – first hot meal for a week, - locked in for air raid. Average of 1 by day & 1 by night of raids. March 3 kls to goods yard, arriving 4 PM. where we get into box cars – 46 men in a truck. As usual, no light and no room to lie down. More bartering
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Eventually set out at 7 PM and after many trials thro’ the night owing to absence of abort are still travelling when day comes. Stops made alongside various army trains – more bartering. Arrive in Luckenwalde about 5 pm – heaven knows where we went to during night. March in darkness, after being counted, thro’ town and 3 kls. to camp where we stand in rain for 3/4 of hour waiting to get in. Getting in, are herded into small space to wait for shower air-raid, no lights, chaos. After waiting 6 hours, fight our way with all kit to have communal
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shower. After crowded shower, to Abwehr hut where we are searched & extra blankets etc removed. My searcher Pow in Aus. last war, internee till 1941 in England this war. Then to huts where conditions are dirty and overcrowded, without any heating or other facilities. Next door we have a hut of Americans in quarantine for Scarlet fever, then a hut of Polish Pows mostly in civvy clothes. Have met quite a few old friends. Have heard American S. camp did march of 33 kls. on first night – 1/2 dozen died of exposure.
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[underlined] Wed 14th. Feb. [/underlined] Have now more or less settled down in this place. In our half of the hut there are 225 men, sleeping mostly on [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] 3 tier beds which are built in blocks of 6 and rather shaky. Very little straw for sacks and very uncomfortable. About 10 tables available and about 1 stool to 8 men. Most of E camp seemed to have had far more food than Belaria which is rather annoying. Cigs. are increasing in value by leaps and bounds – they will be our only medium of exchange till more parcels arrive. German rations are 1/6 loaf of brown army bread, which give 5 – 6 slices. Very new & doughy. Midday, an issue of 1/2 klim tin of soup – watery porridge barley mixture or pea soup etc. Each day we get about a matchbox full of marg, fat or meat paste between two – this is spread. Twice a week, about a tablespoon & 1/2 of sugar. Even these rations are variable and at times fail to materialise. Besides the Polish officers, there are several hundred Norwegians who were removed about 18 months ago from Norway and have eventually got here.
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108
There are also Italian officers in our compound, and American Army officers from Shukin, who marched 3 – 4 weeks and were even worse off than us. Remainder of Baukan people have also arrived. Elsewhere in camp are British Army privates, Russians, Serbs and other nationalities.
I brought with me 2 blankets, pair trousers, shirt, underpants, numerous socks, & handkerchiefs. 2 log books and all photos, spare pair of boots, 700 cigs approx, small pillow, 1/2 dozen odd tins of food, white jug, one red cross Am. parcel 3 packets (2 oz) tea and 1/2 lb. sugar. 16 cakes of barley choc. Was wearing cap, great coat, tunic, pullover, white sweater, shirt, thick vest, un/pants & trousers, socks & boots, scarf & gloves (2 prs) Pockets filled with odds & ends like razor, boot laces, K.F. Spoon etc.
We now learn that R. have reached Sagan. What happened to 500 sick left behind? Remainder of British gone to Bremen, Americans to Buckenwalde? From Spremberg we appear to have gone towards Leipzig, coming
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109
here from sw direction. (Only conjecture). Since coming here there has been an air raid warning practically every night, usually 2 or 3, and almost every day. Great lack of containers to do washing and drying facilities. No newspapers issued at all. Two [deleted] infinites [/deleted] very poor stoves for 450 men to cook on and meagre coal ration. Quite a few jam tin stoves of various types. Tending to dream by day and night of food and proposed meals on return home. Before leaving Belaria, had been suffering for some time of lack of feeling in all toes & tendency of other extremities to suffer from pins & needles. Vit. B injections by Doc. Twee. Symptoms seem to be quite common amongst friends. Last 2 days has seen some improvement, perhaps due to warmer weather. Present rates of exchange £15 watch – 400 cigs. D-bar 100, loaf of bread – 50 (if you can find deal!) Great shortage of reading material.
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110
[underlined] Friday 16th [/underlined] About 6 pm, warning given that we may be off again in early morning. Reason, instructions having been given to kitchen to have hot barley ready for 6.30 am. [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] chaos on roads with evacuees, I expect. Lights in barracks usually off for 1 1/2 hrs each night – saving current. We shall be prepared this time – too easy, nothing to prepare!
[underlined] Sat. 17th [/underlined] Nothing happened. Apparently only to enable kitchen to prepare extra soup, which was to be issued to make up for cut in bread ration. Ration had been cut from 300 to 200 grms. Per day per man, or 7 1/2 men per loaf. Announced today we are to go back on old ration of 5 to a loaf. Disturbing feature of low rations & slops is necessity of getting up in night for A.R. Extremely common, even at Belaria, but first time for myself. 109 crashed near camp, pilot just made bale out. Large truck of parcels for Norwegians arrived. Potato ration remains same – about 4 average potatoes, overcooked, unpeeled and rather dirty, each day.
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111
JW. Reilly
95, Kennedy Cresc.
Kirkcaldy.
[underlined] 20-2-45 [/underlined] Several days ago Norwegians gave 500 Danish parcels to compound. Issue already made to Amers. & Poles, but we still await fate of our 1/5 parcel. Delay due to investigation of health of Baukan NCO’s in opposite compound. Trading goes on apace. Loaf of bread 60 cigs. Considerable trading in Red X food, origin unknown. Annoying to watch Serbs etc. collect Amer. Red X parcels each day. Red X merely feeding them to work for Germany. Extreme lack of reading material, and my cig. supply is getting low. Pea & Cabbage soup at midday, 90% water. Contin. air activity day and night.
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[underlined] 24-2-45 [/underlined] Air raid in morning, issue of 1/5 Danish parcel per head in evening. Extremely welcome and excellent parcel. Contents: 1 lb. Butter, 1 lb. Sugar, 1 lb. Cheese, 1 lb. bacon sausage, large packet porridge, small piece of toffee, large packet Ryvita bisc. small piece of soap, 1 lb. tin of treacle. Trading with army organised on revised price list. Outcome awaited. Evening raid. Probable jettison of bombs blew open barrack doors and knocked tins off shelf. Feel absolutely without energy to do anything, otherwise OK except for head cold and dry irritating cough. Wrote another P.C. home Total issue here, 1 change of camp P.C., 1 letter, 1 P.C.
26-2-45. Wrote letter home. 27.2.45. At long last met F/L Patterson from E camp, of whom I had heard so much in letters from home.
6.3.44 [sic] Announced today that Germans have stated we shall get 1/2 issue Amer. parcel probably tomorrow. Practically finished my butt ends, & just becoming efficient in rolling non-sticky papers. It was announced too some time ago that we were moved on request of our Senior Officers, the decision being greeted with cheers by camp. Several officers were to be repatriated for good conduct etc. on march. This
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later given up owing to bombing of Dresden. Showers of snow lately, but not lasting. Lights out in future at 9 pm each evening. Made cribbage board & cig. holder. Compiled lists of rests. dishes & menus. Recent visit of Max Schmelling to camp. Great scarcity of paper, above all writing paper. Canteen issue of coloured crepe, presumably as bumf. 7.3.44 Announced that 23 truck loads of Am. parcels have arrived in station. Policy of immediate full issue & another. 8.3.44 The fuel, coal etc. Bedboards going. Received Am. parcel per head 9.3.44 Moved beds round block, built stove, v. tired. 10.3. Received 1/7 Swedish Grocers’ parcels. Contents Knackebrot, Gooseberry Jam, 2 tins pork meat, milk powder, alum. cup & teasp. soap, sugar, 2 box. matches, 2 tins sardines. Last 3 nights unable to get to sleep due to mental activity After bash of Swed. food slept well. Biggest problem dhobie & keeping body clean. 17.3 Watched large Am. daylight raid on Berlin & district. Help arrange Foodacco & Norwegian Exchange. Another Parcel and promise of 5 day issue in future. Saturday brings rumours of another move. 27.3. X-ray for TB. 10-4-45. Told of rumour that we move on 11-4. Finally start moving at 8 AM on 13-4, token search & arrive at station 12 PM. 40 men to a truck. Trading & barter produced bread & onions. 15.4. We move back to camp. Raid on Potsdam heard very plainly esp. flak. News terrific – also the rumours
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3 ncos attempt to escape from camp, 1 shot dead other died later. Heard that Dugal MacTaggart was with Bankan mob. Contacted him and had long natter. Thunderbolts seen on numerous occasions, dive bombing, strafing etc Weather continues fine. Wizard cake to celebrate 4th anniversary. Rations variable, 1/8 loaf bread fairly constant.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jim Tyrie's Wartime Log. Two
Description
An account of the resource
A wartime log kept by Jim Tyrie. He lists his crew on the night they were shot down over Berlin, the construction of tin trays, addresses of co-prisoners, cartoons, London restaurants, newspaper cuttings in German and English and finally more detailed notes as the Russian offensive of 1945 got closer.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jim Tyrie
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One handwritten book.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
deu
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Artwork
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
STyrieJSB87636v2
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Poland
Germany--Barth
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Oberursel
Poland--Żagań
Germany--Bernau (Brandenburg)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
anti-aircraft fire
arts and crafts
bale out
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
C-47
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
Dulag Luft
escaping
evacuation
fear
Lancaster
military living conditions
prisoner of war
Red Cross
shot down
sport
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 1
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2283/47093/BCarterDACarterRv1.2.pdf
53c7b42bfe5ef280f58e586f638120f2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carter, Ronald
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ronald Carter (1924 - 2014, 1620578 Royal Air Force) and contains his biography, research, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a rear gunner with 44 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susan Margaret Perrow and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-12-06
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Carter, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Last of the Tail Gun Charlies
Description
An account of the resource
Biography of Warrant Officer Ronald Carter (1620578 Royal Air Force)
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Carter
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1943-04
1944-03-30
1944-03-31
1945-01-19
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Nuremberg
Poland
Poland--Tychowo
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
49 page booklet
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BCarterDACarterRv1
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019
44 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
bombing of the Creil/St Leu d’Esserent V-1 storage areas (4/5 July 1944)
bombing of Toulouse (5/6 April 1944)
Caterpillar Club
crewing up
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
prisoner of war
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF Waddington
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
tactical support for Normandy troops
the long march
training
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/675/11898/MArrowsmithHL571013-160929-01.1.pdf
bed556a33585b08c3992522c3d95c3fa
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Arrowsmith, Les
H L Arrowsmith
Description
An account of the resource
14 items. The collection concerns Flight Sergeant Les Arrowsmith (b.1920) who flew operations as a bomb aimer with 576 Squadron from RAF Elsham Wolds until his Lancaster was shot down 21/22 May 1944 and he became a prisoner of war. The collection includes his prisoner of war diary, his log book, photographs, a scrap book and correspondence. After the war he continued to serve with the RAF and remustered to become a navigator.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Mike Arrowsmith and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-22
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Arrowsmith, HL
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[British Lion logo]
A WARTIME LOG
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MoA.
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Entrust yourself to God, as a child would entrust himself to his father.
You will find that even in the darkest hour, He will not let you fall.
MB
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EVERYTHING GOD DOES IS LOVE – EVEN WHEN WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIM.
MB
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[blank page]
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A WARTIME LOG
FOR
BRITISH PRISONERS
Gift from
THE WAR PRISONERS’ AID OF THE Y.M.C.A.
37, Quai Wilson
GENEVA – SWITZERLAND
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[British Lion logo]
THIS BOOK BELONGS TO
ARROWSMITH. H.L. (F/SGT)
No 571013. (PRISON No 73. (L7)
11, PARK LANE,
KNEBWORTH, HERTS.
[YMCA crest]
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[underlined] INMATES OF ROOM “64. OLD CAMP. NOW [/underlined]
[British Lion logo] 1 [British Lion logo]
RESIDING BLOCK 44 ROOM 12
T.S. White
188 West St.,
Orillia, Ont.,
Canada
R.P. Olsen,
3 Princess St.,
East Bundaberg,
Queensland,
Australia.
H Dawson
36, Scaitcliffe St
Accrington Lancashire
J.R.B. Crawford
10 Woodhall Drive
Juniper Green
Edinburgh
Scotland
& A.J. Cox Esq. Newcastle.
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[underlined] Clothes [/underlined] (Essentials)
1.) Suit, Brown Harris Tweed Single Breasted £7.
2) Sports Jacket & Flannels £5.
3) 1 pr. Heavy brown suede shoes – 1 pr. Black Oxfords £7.
4) 3 Shirts (2 detached. 1 sports) £2.
5.) 4 pr socks. £1
6) 3 ties £1/10
7) 12. Handkerchiefs £1[deleted]/10[/deleted]
8) 2 sets under vest & pants £2.
9) Pullover £1.
10) Pigs skin gloves £2.
11) Overcoat. £7. (£36/10.)
12) Pyjamas (2 prs) £2
13) Dressing Gown. [underlined] £3. [/underlined]
[underlined] £41/10 [/underlined]
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[underlined] Non Essentials[/underlined].
Leather Jacket. £4
Pullover (Roll neck 3 vs Type) £1/10.
Swimming trunks £1.
Hiking Shirt. £1
Rain Coat £4.
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[underlined] Rumours [/underlined]
[underlined] June [/underlined]. 1st. Warsaw Captured
[underlined] July. [/underlined] Russians within 20 miles.
[underlined] August [/underlined]. I predicted near to end on 27th. Have since changed it to same date 1945.
[underlined] January [/underlined]. Germans pushing in West have penetrated 25K into France, with spearhead armies at Verdun Monty taken over Northern 1/2 of lines.
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News
2/4/45. British Troops 40 miles past Munster. American 3rd Army fighting in Kassel. Blackout continues on Western Front. Joe 16K from Vienna.
[underlined] Rumours] [/underlined]. 3rd army reach Jenna.
Chaps give time to war end from a few days to 2 or 3 weeks.
[deleted] 12 [/deleted] [inserted] 9 [/inserted] /4/45. British are shelling Bremen. Airborne landings in Holland 2 days ago are now nearly linked up with Canadians advancing to Zuider Zee. Americans 10K from Hanover. Other column has Bypassed the town & are 40 K (M) from Brunswick. Another Am. column taken Gothun. In South 40 K from Nuremburg. French take Karlsbruc. Joe cleared. Large part of Vienna.
[underlined] Rumours [/underlined] Leipzig taken & also bypassed.
13) 3rd Army crossed the elbe [sic] on 40K front 50 miles SW of Berlin. This puts them at Wittenberge. & 25 miles from here. Halle captured. Celle captured.
17) 7th Army Bridgehead 15 miles SE Magdeburg holding firm. Russians open whole front offensive. 28 miles from Berlin & 12 from the uder. Last Parcel issue today Yank 3rd 5 m from Leipzig & 2 1/2 from Chemnitz. Potsdam raid on 15 was a grand sight, & quite near enough. 7th. 7k from [deleted] Vienna [/deleted], Czec border. Yanks bypassed Dessau 2 days ago. [underlined] This makes news of the 13 all wrong [/underlined] x
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1 – 9 MIN. CO (M) 341.
319T 330M
149 Track 160M 155T 166M 190GS.
55 SECS. FROM. GT. ORMES HD.
CO M. 166.
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[underlined] Books Needed [/underlined]
[underlined] Outline of Wireless [/underlined] by. Stranger Newes
[symbol] [underlined] Foundations of Wireless [/underlined] by Sowerby Illif
[symbol] [underlined] Amateur Radio Hardbook. [/underlined] (2 parts) circuits etc anode
[underlined] Radio Receiver Service [/underlined] by Squires.
[underlined] Automobile Engines Vol 1- 4 by Judge. Chapman & Hall [/underlined]
[underlined] 1st. Yr. Engineering Science by [/underlined]
J.C. Engines.
[underlined] Strength of Materials. [/underlined]
Autocar Handbook. (Current Issue).
[brackets] Flight Aeroplane Practical Wireless [/brackets] Years’ Back Nos. May - ? x
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Parlaphone R 20050 (Odeon Series
Aria Maria
Schubert Serenade Lotte Lehman
DB 1875. The Pearl fisher. (Karuso
Blue Danube Ballet Music. Strauz [sic]
BD Waltz. Eugene Ormonde. Minneapolis Sym, Orch.
2 “G
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[underlined] More Ideas [/underlined].
Find a good town library & look up all back issues of Flight etc. Also sort out all the text books I want to get.
Find good radio store & buy some records I want to get. Also choose radiogram as present for Mum & Dad. Choose portable for myself.
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Records
Parlaphone (odeon series). Lotte Lehman. Schubert. Aria Maria. Sch. Serenade.
Blue Danube Ballet Music. By Strauz. [sic]
“ “ Waltz. Played by Eugene Ormonde & the Minneapolis Sum. Orch two sides.
DB 1875. The Pearl Fishers. Karuso.
[page break]
[calendar May 1944 to January 1945]
NO OF DAYS SINCE 21ST OF MAY 1944 [chart]
[page break]
[calendar February to May 1945]
IN MORNING THE GERMAN STARTED DESERTING THE CAMP AND BY EVENING THE LAST ONE HAD GONE & A NORWEGIAN GENERAL ASSUMED COMMAND OF THE CAMP & OUR OWN GUARDS HAD TAKEN OVER. ‘GERRY HAD AN S.S. UNIT IN THE WOODS AT THE BACK BUT THEY WERE THE REAR GUARD. ALL THE NATIONAL FLAGS ARE FLYING. GRAND SIGHT
[underlined] LIBERATED [/underlined]
AT 6 A.M. THIS MORNING THE FIRST RUSSIANS ROLLED INTO CAMP. THEY HAD TAKEN LUKENWALDE IN THE NIGHT. BY 9 AM A RUSKI ARMOURED COLUMN CAME THROUGH. WE HAVE TO STAY PUT IN CAMP TIL THE RUSKIS AND YANKS LINK UP AND WE GO BACK THROUGH THE WEST COUNTRY & NOT TO ODESSA.
[underlined] PRISONER OF WAR [/underlined] 336 DAYS. OR 48 WEEKS.
[charts]
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[underlined] 4/5/45. [/underlined] The remarks on previous page seem now to be a trifle optimistic. It is now 13 days since we were liberated & exactly nothing has been done to get us out of here. The food situation is getting steadily worse. All our Red X food has gone with the exception of a few brews of coffee & tea. Russian rations are about the same as German & I’m feeling mighty hungry. The ruskys & Yanks linked up at Wittenberge 4 days ago & yesterday 2 American War Correspondents arrived here. They reckon that the roads are blocked with refugees & that nothing was known about us across the Elbe. In all, prospects do not look too bright. For the last week chaps have been leaving for the yank lines in increasing numbers & I think many more will leave now. Personally I cant [sic] decide if it is worth it or not. To cap matters Bert & I are on 24 hr guard from 1 pm today. Up to yesterday there was a lot of fighting in this area but yesterday the pocket was finally cleared up by the Ruskys. Down in town the Ruskys seem to be getting a little of their revenge on Gerry. Many people including women & children have been shot & other atrocities which are best not mentioned. My opinion
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of the Russians is that they are an uncivilised lot of savages. They do not look like a victorious army. Their uniforms – if any – are dirty & torn, & they look more like refugees.
9/5/45
On the 5th a yank jeep arrived in camp & reported that a convoy was on the way to evacuate us. Next day 25 Rx. trucks arrived & removed the hospital patients. On the 6th 7th & 8th the convoy arrived each day but the Russians would not let us go, although about 1/2 the Yanks & RAF have gone. We are told that the great majority of them have been interned as civillians. [sic] The Russians now state that as soon as we are organised & on a correct list of British POWs still in camp, supplied they will organise evacuation. This messing about for the last 4 days has made us all complete nervous wrecks, but I am now more or less resigned to staying here until the Russians do something about it. We know that once in Yank territory we are taken
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straight to Hildestein, near [deleted] F [/deleted] Hanover, stay there up to 48 hrs & are then flown straight to England, so with any luck at all we shall be on leave in about 5 or 6 days from leaving this camp. That’s what makes it so mortifying – we could easily have been on leave for the armistice. The only improvements in our situation at the moment are, increased rations, & fine weather. I am scribbling this by the side of a large pond just outside camp & the local scenery is grand. Bert has just been for a swim in the lake, but I am not, I value my health too much.
[underlined] 24th. Halle. [/underlined] Just when we had given up hope of ever leaving IIIA we were told by the Russians that we were leaving on the 20th & this time
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[drawing of layout of camp] [drawing of sentry box on the camp perimeter]
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[calculations]
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[3 drawings]
“SMOKEY. JOE.”
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[drawing of aircraft]
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Tent £5
Fly Sheet £1 10
Sleeping Bag 310
Cooking Pans (Set) 15/-
Ground sheet.
Primus Stove
Cost of whole kit £15 max.
[diagram of room]
Weight of all kit [underlined] about 20 lbs [/underlined]
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[drawing]
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[drawing]
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Dates of Events Prior to Prison Camp
Shot Down on Night May 22/23rd.
Captured 5 pm 23rd. Taken to Civilian Jail in [missing word] which was local German H.q. Stayed there for one Night in Cell 24. Taken to Aerodrome by Car (about 20 miles away) & interrogated. They had packed up my Parachute & Harness. Spent Night in Cell. Next Day (25th) Taken to Jail in Amsterdam. There 3 nights.
28th. Taken to Nants. About 40 of us there. 30th Taken to Dulagluft (about 10 miles from Frankfurt). 1 night in Communal Cell. 2 Nights in Solitary. Interrogated 3rd Day. Sent to other part of Camp. Left Dulag early morning of 3rd & arrived at Transit Camp Wetzlow at 5 pm.
Given Capture Parcels & Clothing & food & Shower.
10th June left Transit Camp for
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Prison Camp.
Spent 3 1/2 days on the train arrived Bankow on Morning of 14th. Marched 2 1/2 K to this Prison Camp & arrived on 14th at 11 a.m.
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Camp Life 4/9/44
We seem to have been rather unlucky being sent to this camp, as it was brand new when we arrived, & we were the second crowd of chaps to be sent here. There were only 60 other prisoners on the camp. Our date of arrival was the 14th June & I am writing this account on 4th Sept. & during this time our numbers have swelled to about 860 men. At first our bonds were restricted to the number of huts occupied & those were roped off from the rest of the compound. As more chaps were brought in more huts were occupied & we had more room in which to move about. Now all the huts are occupied with the exception of a few just to the left of the main entrance.
The camp consists of an area about 300 x 200 yds surrounded [deleted] of [/deleted] by a thick barbed wire fence. It is rectangular & at each corner & half way down each side is a wooden tower in which is
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kept a guard complete with rifle, machine gun & telephone. Inside the fence for a distance of 30’ the ground has been cleared and a warning wire erected. Near the entrance is being constructed the large cookhouse.
The huts are thin wood & cardboard contraptions with floor space of 12 x 20’ & height 5’ 6” walls & 6’ 6” at centre. Six chaps are living in each of these. Our hut is No 64 & the inmates are Dawson, Olsen the Aussie, White the Canadian, Crawford (Scotch), Cox, & myself. We sleep as indicated by the diagram. The two windows are 1’ squared Space & light are a little bit cramped but in the fine weather we have been getting [indecipherable word] so not too bad.
[diagram of room]
The food [indecipherable word] is not too bad. We get a german [sic] ration of Bread, Potatoes, Marge & sugar & also 1/2 a Red X parcel per week each. We used to get one complete parcel but they are getting rather scarce & have been cut down. The bread works out at 4 slices per day, & potatoes are about 1/2 lb per day. Twice a week we get some meat cooked up in the form of stew from the Germans.
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The tea, Coffee, Cocoa, Oats, are taken from the parcels & turned in to the Cookhouse who serve up hot brews for Breakfast, tea & Supper. To make things easier we share our parcels between two. Dawson & I go shares & the food seems to work out fairly well.
[underlined] 31. December [/underlined]
We have now been moved to the new camp (Fri 13th OCT.) constructed on S side of old camp. Compound is the same size. Accommodation in 8 blocks. Each block divided into 14 rooms.
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12.2.45 Stalag 3A. LUBENWALDE [sic]
On the 17th Jan we were told that we would be leaving L7 at an hours notice because of the russian [sic] advance. After getting ready 3 times we finally set out at 4 am on Friday 19th. It was the worst day possible in which to start a march. The weather was working up to a blizzard & temp way below zero. We were given 2/3 loaf of bread & 2 ozs of meat & a little marge for food. The first days march was 25 kilos & we were all dead at the end of it. We were put for the night in small barns of a village & it was too cold to sleep. The 2nd day started at 4 am & we were marched 12 k to a factory arriving at 11 am at 8 pm we were on the road again & marched till 930 am across the Oder 25 k in a foul blizzard. Chaps were collapsing all the way & the M.O. did a marvellous job at the rear. Everyone was feeling rather rough by this time from the food shortage & the marching. At this stop we were given our first food 1 pkt biscuits & 1 cup of coffee. The Jerry promised us [deleted] [indecipherable letter] [/deleted] 2 days rest here but we were off again at midnight & our route was a rec around Breslam at about 40 kilo’s radius. In all we were on the march for 14 days & ended up at a village 8 K from Goldburg. All our stops were at farms in Villages on the way & the great difficulty was to keep warm. We would arrive at a barn at night almost out from fatigue & then be glad to get on the move so as to get some sort of feeling back to our feet & bodies. Over 300 were suffering from
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frost bite in feet & fingers, & a few have lost their toes. We were at goldburg [sic] for 3 1/2 days from Feb 1st & the weather became quite warm., From Goldburg we were taken by cattle trucks to this camp. The train journey took 3 days & nights. We were 54 chaps per truck & no one could lay down so that the train journey was almost as bad as the march & when we were finally let off the train at Luchenwalde everyone was in a horrible state & I dont [sic] know how I managed to march the 3 kilos to the camp.
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[underlined] Johnny Cake [/underlined] {Aussy).
[underlined] Scone Mixture [/underlined] Baked or fried with hot butter Syrup or jam & rolled in sugar.
[underlined] Pastry for Puff cakes. [/underlined] (50) 1/2 lb butter boiled with 1/2 pt of water.. Mix in 1/2 lb white of egg (Commercial is cheap) & 1 lb of ordinary flour. Boil til cooked. looks like ordinary batter, put small amount in baking dish & bake in hot air tight oven (temp 360o) about 3 mins.
[underlined] Fritters [/underlined] 6. 1/2 lb flour, 2 eggs, sugar milk, mix to consistency of thin paste, dip in the Bread & jam sandwich & fry in plenty of cooking fat.
[underlined] Pastry for pies [/underlined] flour, water, suet, [deleted] a [/deleted] baking powder, knead to doughy consistency. [underlined] For Puddings [/underlined] use marge instead of suet.
[underlined] Dough Nuts. [/underlined] Recipe from home.
[underlined] Currant Sad Cake [/underlined] Plain flour, marge, sugar make into dough mix with currants & roll our flat & fairly thin. Bake in oven til cooked & eat with jam or syrup.
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[underlined] Lancashire Hot Pot [/underlined] [deleted] Chopped [/deleted] [inserted] large [/inserted] lumps of beef in baking dish & simmer in oven with onions, add gravy mixture. When 1/2 cooked Slice up raw potatoes & insert in dish. Bake in oven til cooked
[underlined] French Fried Bread. [/underlined] Mix up egg (?) & milk into a smooth liquid whisk (not much milk). Soak thick slices of bread in the solution & fry.
VERY TASTY
[underlined] Sago Plum Pudding [/underlined] (for 2) table spoon sago soaked overnight. Rasins [sic] Sultanas fruit. Marge, 2 slices bread in milk, egg sugar, little jam flour added. [deleted] till [/deleted] drain off sago, add bread broken up, add milk til wet, add dry ingredient mix & then add flour til right thickness for steaming, or baking. Cook 1 1/2 hrs or less.
Cheese & potato Pie. use marge & strong cheese
[underlined] Fish Cakes. [/underlined] 3 oz salmon 8 oz potatoes, Cream put with small amount marge & mix in the salmon til fairly firm. Coat with flour & fry in plenty of fat til brown.
Fried Spam & Potatoes
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Contents of Capture Parcel.
1.) Suit Case. (with Straps)
2.) Two Towels.
3.) 1 Vest.
4.) 2 pr thin Socks.
5.) 1 pr underpants.
6.) 1 pr Pyjamas.
7.) 1 pr Sandal Slippers
8.) 1 pullover
9.) 4 handkerchiefs.
10) 1 housewife.
11.) 40 Cigarettes ([indecipherable word])
12) 1 Pipe
13) 2 prs Boot laces.
14) 20 Razor Blades
15. 6 cakes of Toilet Soap.
16) 1 stick Shaving Soap.
17) 1 Comb.
18) 10 pkts Chewing Gum.
19) 1 tin Boot Polish
20) 1 pkt Cascara Tablets.
21.) 1 Polish Cloth.
22) 4 ozs Tobacco.
23) 1 pkt. Pipe Cleaners
24) 2 bars of Washing Soap
25) 1 Razor.
26) 1 Hair Brush.
27) 1 pkt. Vitamin Tablets.
28) 1 pkt Adhesive Tape.
29) 1 pkt. Cig Papers.
[underlined] German Food Issue. [/underlined]
[symbol] Potatoes (each day). [symbol] Meat. (once a week).
Powdered Cheese. or Cheese cakes (occasionally).
Jam (occasionally). [symbol] Marge (every 3 days very good).
[symbol] Bread. (daily 4 slices). [symbol] Sugar. (2 dessert spoons per week)
Barley (occasionally) or Soup Powders.
Molases. [sic] (good).
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American Red X Parcel
1 Tin Salmon (8 oz) 1 Tin Spam (12 oz)
1 Tin Corned Beef (12 ozs) 1 Tin Meat Paste (6 ozs)
1 Tin Powdered Milk (1 lb) 1/2 lb Kraft Cheese
1 lb Margarine (tin) 1 pkt. Rasins [sic] or Prunes.
1 tin Jam or Orange Juice (4 ozs) 2 bars Chocolate 1/2 lb
1 Tin Coffee (4 ozs) 1 pkt. Biscuits Yoyo.
1/2 lb Sugar. Cubes. 2 cakes of Soap
[underlined] British Red X Parcels [/underlined]
1 Tin Salmon or Pilchards (8 ozs) 1 Tin Meat (Oxtail, Meat & Veg, Mince & Tomato) 1 Tin Meat Roll 1 Tin Nestles Milk. 1 Tin Margarine 1 Pkt Tea 1 Tin Bacon or Veg. 1 tin Syrup or Jam 1 Tin Cocoa (maybe) 1 Tin Pudding (apple, Marmalade or Yorkshire) 10 Sweets (sometimes) 32 Biscuits or 1 Tin with 13. 1/2 lb Sugar (block) 1 Cake Soap. 1 Bar Chocolate (4 ozs). 1 Tin of Rolled Oats. 1 Tin Dried eggs.
1 Tin Oatmeal.
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FOOD FROM ENGLISH & AMERICAN PARCELS
[underlined] FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. [/underlined]
KLIM, MILKO, NESTLÉS DRIED MILK
LUSTY’S MEAT GALANTINE (or OXTON CARDIFF) MG.
APPLE PUDDING. MIXED FRUIT PUDDING. A.P. (PEAK FREAN & CO LTD)
ROLLED OATS.
COTTAGE PIE, CURRIED VEAL & RICE, RX
TIN OF COOKED BACON. RX
“ “ “ PORK SAUSAGES RX & BALETHORPE
DRIED EGG. (for camp). RX
MIXED VEGETABLES (FOSTERS)
RAISINS STONELESS.
PF. SERVICE BISCUITS.
Yorkshire Pudding Mixture. (Greens).
Meat PATÉ. (AMERICAN.) ROSEMILL PATÉ.
CREAMED RICE.
Dried, fried, COFFEE
[underlined] LATEST PARCELS. [/underlined]
Peanut Butter. (lovely) Meat & Veg in place of the Corned beef. (Poor.)
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[underlined] Meals Eaten in Camp that are good.? [/underlined]
[underlined] Breakfast [/underlined] Egg, omelette. Barley (German) Porridge.
[underlined] Dinner [/underlined] Tin meat & boiled potatoes, Yorkshire Pudding eaten hot. [deleted] ([indecipherable word]) [/deleted]
[underlined] Stew. [/underlined] Meat, Mixed Veg. Potatoes. Greenstuff.
Fried potatoes, Fried bread, Sliced spam, bacon or sausage.
Boiled Potatoes & Corned Beef Mixed up with Margarine & heated up.
B.P. & [deleted] M [/deleted] Bacon mixed & heated. Fish Cakes.
[underlined] Sweet [/underlined] Apple Pudd. mixed with milk & heated.
Raisins & Milk. (cold).
CREAMED RICE & Milk.
[underlined] Tea [/underlined] as for dinner &.,
Cheese on fried bread & fried boiled potatoes.
Potatoes & Bacon, Corned beef, or greenstuff or salmon. chopped up together & fried.
Egg & Bacon.
[underlined] Special Dishes [/underlined]
Cake made from biscuits, Yorkshire Pudd. dried egg,
Raisins sugar & [indecipherable word] milk.
Bread pudding?
Xmas Pudding. RASins, [sic] Milk Chocolate, Biscuits Bread.
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ARTICLES TO BUY & NECESSARY EXPENDITURE
[symbol] CAR. £60
[symbol] Clothes. £40
[symbol] Holiday £30
Signet Ring £10
Watch £10
Cig. Lighter & Case. £2
[symbol] Camera £5
Thermos Flask £1
Portable Wireless £10
[symbol] Fountain Pen £5
[symbol] Books £5
[symbol] Set Ordnance Maps £2
Chromatic £1
Ice skates. £2
Leather Jacket £3
Field Glasses £5
Tent & kit £15
Slide Rule. [underlined] £4 {/underlined]
[underlined] 200. [/underlined]
[page break]
[underlined] Suggestion for Places to visit on Holiday. [/underlined]
[underlined] Thames [/underlined] from Richmond to source.
[underlined] North Devon. [/underlined] Somerset, Dorset.
[underlined] Main Ideas For 56 days leave at home. [/underlined]
[underlined] 1st 14 days [/underlined] Home do nothing. Eat, book, get car, clothes, read. Shows in town. Be generally pampered & thoroughly enjoy myself. Main Points Bags of good food, ease & luxury.
[underlined] 14 – 21 [/underlined] Sally forth & get completely kitted out & make complete preparations for next 14 days.
[underlined] 21 – 28 [/underlined] Touring holiday where or who with I do not know yet.
[underlined] 28 – 35 [/underlined] Week with Mum & dad at the sea side.
[underlined] 35 – 36 [/underlined] At home & nipping off for days here & there to various spots, i.e. Oxford, Halton, Dover Barnett. Visit relations. Look up pete [sic] Hessop. In all, do just as I feel with the advantage of a car to get around. Insist on both Dad & Mum & Doris taking long holiday too
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[underlined] Experiments in food to be carried out at home. [/underlined]
[deleted] To [/deleted] [underlined] Toffee. [/underlined] Butter, sugar, milk +.
[underlined] Chocolate [/underlined] – sugar, milk, cocoa, butter.
[underlined] Choc Biscuits [/underlined] Flour Cream.
[underlined] Frying [/underlined] Eggs Bacon. Bread & Jam. Steak. Potatoes.
[underlined] Baking. [/underlined] Jam Turnover. Pastries. Cakes.
[underlined] Boiling [/underlined] Puddings. (Jam, Raisin. Meat.).
[underlined] Food dreamt about on the March [/underlined]
Unlimited supply of bread. Bread & dripping. Eggs bacon Mixed grill. Pancakes. Apple Turnover. All sorts of jam & fruit pies & tarts. Pastries, Choc. E’clairs, [sic] Cakes. Mince Pies Christmass [sic] Pudding & cake. Scotch Egg. Steak onions, egg & chips. Top of new cottage loaf hollowed out & filled with new foods butter & strawberry jam. Pork pies. Steak & kidney, real ham pie [inserted](or pudd) [/inserted]. [underlined] Pastries [/underlined] Puff, jam [symbol], cream. Flake jam & cream cakes. Solid cakes. Bamcakes, Nelsons. Lyons [deleted] Jam [/deleted] [inserted] Fruit [/inserted] Tarts. Shortbreak cakes. Spotted dick. Jam pudding. Toad in the hole. Fish & chips. Chutney. Ketchup. Curried stew with plenty of boiled onion, meat, dumplings, carrots etc. Marmalade on toast. Cream by the pint. Ham cheese & onions with ketchup for supper. New bread butter & cheese. Chocolate. Cad. Brazil Nut. Choc crisp. Whipped cream walnuts. Choc biscuit fingers. Shortbread. Cheese & biscuits. Heinz Baked beans on toast. Sardines on toast. Custard tart. Baked grill pie. Thick creamy rice pudding. Golden Syrup. Lemon Curd. Sausage & Mash with bacon & tomatoes Salads. tomato omelette. Cold beef, salad, chutney, fried potatoes. Pork Chops. Cottage pie. Toasted sandwich Bacon. Peanut butter.
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[inserted] Blended & Packed by McGAVINS’ PURE TEAS GLASGOW for British Red Cross Society Prisoners of War Parcels [/inserted]
[two plastic covers]
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JIM. W. Rielly, [sic] 95, Kennedy Crescent, Kircaldy, FIFE.
Bob Green, Gainsborough Rd, Dagenham, Essex
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Les Arrowsmith's Wartime Log
Description
An account of the resource
Les Arrowsmith's wartime note book during 1944 and 1945 whilst a prisoner of war in Stalag Luft 7. In the book he has recorded addresses of friends, a list of clothes and their prices, books and magazines needed, 'more ideas', records, calendar, detailed events pertaining to random days, sketches of the camp, dates of events prior to prison camp, camp life, cake recipes, contents of food parcels, German food issue, future clothes purchases, plans for future holidays and plans for future meals. Also included are the rumours and news received about the progress of the war in May 1945; moving out (as the Russians were advancing) and the Long March to Stalag 3A; the liberation of the camp by the Russians and Americans.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Les Arrowsmith
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One note book with handwritten annotations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MArrowsmithHL571013-160929-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Oberursel
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
1945
aircrew
arts and crafts
bomb aimer
displaced person
Dulag Luft
faith
prisoner of war
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/168/2224/SRutherfordRL146342v1.2.pdf
31f3fffa8b158091d3eea3fd06b57b91
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rutherford, Les
R L Rutherford
Robert Leslie Rutherford
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. The collection contains four oral history interviews with bomb aimer Robert Leslie "Les" Rutherford (1918 - 2019, 146263 Royal Air Force), his prisoner of war diary, material about entertainment in the Stalag Luft 3 Belaria compound and a photograph. Les Rutherford served as a despatch rider in the army, he was evacuated from Dunkirk and volunteered to transfer to the RAF. He became a bomb aimer with 50 Squadron and completed 24 operations. He was shot down over Germany on 20th December 1943 and became a prisoner of war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Les Rutherford and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-09
2015-10-05
2015-06-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Rutherford, RL
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[front cover]
[picture of a red maple leaf]
A WARTIME LOG
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R. L. Rutherford.
P.O.W. 3276
Captured 20.12.43
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A WARTIME LOG
A REMEMBRANCE FROM HOME THROUGH THE CANADIAN Y.M.C.A.
[underlined] F/O R.L. RUTHERFORD. R.A.F. 146342 P.O.W. 3276 [/underlined]
Published by
THE WAR PRISONERS’ AID OF THE Y.M.C.A.
37 Quai Wilson
GENEVA - SWITZERLAND
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CONTENTS
[underlined] PAGE [/underlined]
1 SAGEN CREST BY SELF
3 ALL TALK-NO FLY “ “
5 P/O PRUNE “ “
7 I WANTED WINGS “ “
9 LANCASTER “ “
11 SPITFIRE “ “
13 HALIFAX “ “
15 WELLINGTON “ “
17 GOON UP “ “
19 KITCHEN TROUBLE “ “
21 TUNNELLING “ “
23 GERMAN FILM ACTRESS “ A. E.ADAMS
27 BOMBER COMMAND “ SELF
29 MUSTANG 1. “ M. WILSON
31 CANNY TOON “ SELF
33 KRIEGIE VISION BY BOB HAMILTON
35 KRIEGIE’S ON THE LOOSE? “ D. CODD
37 NO REST FOR THE DEVIL “ T. HUGHES
39 ESCAPE “ SELF
41 COTTAGE NEAR DORCHESTER “ J. RUSSELL
43 IN MEMORIAM “ SELF
45 SQUADRON CREST “ “
47 THE CAMP “ J. RILEY
49 SWING IT “ SELF
53 WATER COLOUR “ D ATTWOOD
PAGE
55 PRISONER OF WAR BY SELF.
58 LUCKENWALDE “ REV BENNETT
60 CAPTAIN OH MY CAPTAIN - GLAN EVANS
63 ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS. J.D.HILL
65 PORTRAIT “ KAWALERSKI
67 CARICATURE “ A.L. ROSS.
97 HEBREWS 13X8 J. REID V.C.
110 DIARY
106 SBO’S LETTER TO RUSSIANS
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[row of leaves] 1 [row of leaves]
[hand drawn picture of the Sagan crest]
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3
[hand drawn picture of the Stalag Luft 111 Belaria crest]
[underlined] RLR 9/44 [/underlined]
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5
[hand drawn picture of a prisoner of war, P/O Prune}
By Les. Rutherford.8/44
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7
[hand drawn picture of Donald Duck in flying gear behind a barred window.]
[underlined] I WANTED WINGS
RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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9
_ _ _ _ OUT OF THE NIGHT _ _ _ _ _
[hand drawn picture of a Lancaster bomber]
[underlined] LANCASTER
RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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11
_ _ _ INTO THE SUN _ _ _ _ _
[hand drawn picture of a Spitfire]
[underlined] SPITFIRE
RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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13
[hand drawn picture of a Halifax bomber]
[underlined] HALIFAX RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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15
[hand drawn picture of a Wellington bomber]
[underlined] WELLINGTON] RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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16
[underlined] GOON :- [/underlined] was the P.O.W. slang for a German. Some of the guards used to walk round the camp looking for trouble - trying to catch P.O.Ws. doing things they shouldn’t i.e. making tunnels, forging passports, listening to radio etc.etc.
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17
[hand drawn picture of a P.O.W. at an open window holding a piece of wood with a nail in it, whilst a prison guard lies on the floor below him.
[underlined] GOON UP!!
RLR 8/44 [/underlined]
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18
[underlined] The Kitchen [/underlined] was a small room at the end of each hut containing a stove and a washing - up sink. Each room was allowed two periods of half - an - hour each day to be shared with another room. In other words room 18 shared with our room (17) and we cooked our grub at 11.30 - 1200 and 6.30 - 7.00 PM each day normally the stove was always rather crowded especially when we made to have 18 to a room instead of [underlined] 12. [/underlined]
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19
[hand drawn picture of a P.O.W. at a very overused stove}
[underlined] KITCHEN TROUBLE
RLR {/underlined] 8/44
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21
[hand drawn picture of a prison guard walking in the rain whilst under his feet a prisoner is tunnelling.
[underlined RLR [/underlined] 8/44
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23
[hand drawn picture of a German actress]
WINNIE MARKUS
A GERMAN FILM ACTRESS
[underlined] A E Adams [/underlined]
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27
[underlined] BOMBER COMMAND [/underlined]
[Various R.A.F. sketches around the poem “Lie In the dark and listen” by Noel Coward.]
Lie in the dark and listen,
It's clear tonight so they're flying high
Hundreds of them, thousands perhaps
Riding the icy, moonlight sky
Men, machinery, bombs and maps
Coffee, sandwiches, fleece lined boots
Bones and muscles and minds and hearts
English saplings with English roots
Deep in the earth they've left behind
Lie in the dark and let them go
Lie in the dark and listen…..
Lie in the dark and listen
They're going over in waves and waves
High above villages, hills and streams
Country churches and little graves
And little citizens worried dreams
Very soon they'll have reached the sea
And far below them will lie the bays
And cliffs and sands where they used to be
Taken for summer holidays
Lie in the dark and let them go
Their’s is a world you’ll never know
Lie in the dark and listen…..
Lie in the dark and listen
City magnates and steel contractors
Factory workers and politicians
Soft hysterical little actors
Ballet dancers, reserved musicians
Safe in your warm civilian beds
Count your profits and count your sheep
Life is passing above your heads
Just turn over and try to sleep
Lie in the dark and let them go
Theirs is a debt you’ll forever owe
Lie in the dark and listen….
Noel Coward
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29
[hand drawn picture of a Mustang aircraft]
[underlined] MUSTANG 1 [/underlined]
With best wishes to R.L.R.
[underlined] from Maurice Wilson [/underlined]
11 AUG 44
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31
[hand drawn Newcastle coat of arms]
[underlined] CANNY TOON [/underlined]
[hand drawn picture of the Tyne bridge in Newcastle]
NEW TYNE BRIDGE. NEWCASTLE - ON - TYNE
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[blank page]
[page break]
33
[hand drawn picture of a young lady in a seductive pose]
All the best Ginger - Bob Hamilton
Bilaria [sic] 1944
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
35
[had drawn picture of two bloodhounds on a leash]
[underlined] KRIEGIES ON THE LOOSE? [/underlined]
All the luck & keep those guitar strings twanging! [underlined] David A Codd 8/44 [/underlined]
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
37
[hand drawn sketch of two men with one recklessly clearing a table of pots while the other has a speech bubble saying “CLEAR THE TABLE GINGER”]
[underlined] NO REST FOR THE DEVIL [/underlined]
Best of luck Ginger.
Tommy Hughes
Belaria
Aug 1944.
[page break]
[blank page]
39
[underlined] ESCAPE [/underlined]
[drawing of a lookout tower]
[drawing of a lorry]
IF YOU CAN LEAVE THE COMPOUND UNDETECTED AND CLEAR YOUR TRACKS NOR [sic] LEAVE THE SLIGHTEST TRACE AND FOLLOW OUT THE PROGRAMME YOU’VE SELECTED NOR LOSE YOUR GRASP OF DISTANCE, TIME AND PLACE…
[drawing of train carriages]
IF YOU CAN WALK AT NIGHT BY COMPASS BEARING AND RIDE THE RAILWAYS IN THE LIGHT OF DAY AND TEMPER YOUR ELUSIVENESS WITH DARING TRUSTING THAT SOMETIMES BLUFF WILL FIND A WAY…
[drawing of an escape attempt]
IF YOU CAN SWALLOW SUDDEN SOUR FRUSTRATION AND GAZE UNMOVED AT FAILURE’S UGLY SHAPE REMEMBER AS FURTHER INSPIRATION IT WAS AND IS YOUR DUTY TO ESCAPE…
[drawing of a German officer]
IF YOU CAN KEEP THE GREAT GESTAPO GUESSING WITH EXPLANATIONS ONLY PARTLY TRUE AND LEAVE THEM IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS CONFESSING THEY DIDN’T GET THE WHOLE TRUTH OUT OF YOU…
[drawing of a prison cell]
IF YOU CAN USE YOUR “COOLER” [SIC] FORTNIGHT CLEARLY FOR PLANNING METHODS WISER THAN BEFORE AND TREAT YOUR FIRST CALCULATIONS MERELY AS HINTS LET FALL BY FATE TO TEACH YOU MORE…
[drawing of a sign pointing to England]
IF YOU SCHEME ON WITH PATIENCE AND PRECISION IT WASN’T IN A DAY THEY BUILDED [sic] AND MAKE ESCAPE YOUR SINGLE SOLE AMBITION [underlined] THE NEXT TIME YOU ATTEMPT IT YOU’LL GET HOME. [/underlined]
COMPOSED BY: - FLIGHT LIEUTENANT E. GORDON BRETTEL R.A.F. WHILST IN DETENTION AT GROS HARTSMANNDORF THIS OFFICER WAS ONE OF THE 52 RAF OFFICERS WHO LOST THEIR LIVES AFTER ESCAPING FROM STALAG-LUFT III (SAGAN) IN APRIL 1944.
[underlined] RLR [/underlined]
[underlined] 9/44 [/underlined]
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
41
[hand drawn picture of a thatched cottage by a stream with a man with bicycle looking on]
Cottage near Dorchester
Best wishes Les - Jim Russell.
[page break]
42
DESIGNED BY R. L. RUTHERFORD.
IN MEMORY OF THE R.A.F. OFFICERS WHO WERE SHOT AFTER ESCAPING FROM NORTH COMPOUND, STALAG LUFT 111, SAGAN, ON MARCH 24 1944. 4 OTHERS WERE KILLED LATER.
[page break]
43
[an elaborately decorated, colourful page including the R.A.F. crest]
ihs
He giveth them wings that they might fly on high and breathe a purer air.
St Francis
In Memoriam
BERKLAND P/O CAN — BRETEL E.G. F/L ENG — BULL L.G. F/L ENG — BUSHEL R.J. S/L ENG — CASEY M.J. F/L ENG — CATANACH J. S/L AUS — CHRISTENSEN P/O N.Z. — COCHRAN D.H. P/O ENG — CROSS T.H.D. S/L ENG — ESPELICH H P/O NOR — EVANS B. P/O WELSH — FUGLESANG P/O NOR — GOUWS LT. S. A. — GRISMAN F/L WELSH — GINN A. P/O SCOTS — MADE A.M. P/O AUS — MAYTER M. F/L ENG — HUMPHRIES P/O CAN — KIERATH R.V. F/O AUS — KIRWNARSKI F/O POL — KIRBY-GREEN S/L ENG — KOLANDOSKI F/O POL — LANGFORD F/L CAN HALL C. P. LEIGH T.B. P/O ENG — Mc FARR C. LT. S.A. — Mc TILL G. P/L CAN — MARCINKAS F/L LITH — MILFORD H. P/O ENG — MONDSHEIN J. P/O POL — PICARD H. P/O BEL. — POKE P.P.J. P/O MAORI — SHEIDHAVER P/O FR — SKOMSYIKAS P/O GR — SWAN C.D. F/L ENG — STEVENS R. L.T. S.A. — STOWERS G. F/O ARG — STEWART C. P/O ENG — STREET O. F/O ENG — VALENTA E. F/L CZECH — WALENN G. F/O ENG — WILEY G. F/O ENG — WERNHAM J. F/O CAN — WILLIAMS S/L AUS — WILLIAMS J. F/O ENG
[underlined] RLR 10/44 [/underlined]
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
45
[hand drawn picture of R.A.F. 50 squadron crest]
[underlined] RLR [/underlined] 1944
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
47
“THE CAMP”
[hand drawn picture of the P.O.W. camp]
“All the Best Kid - Hoping this does not revive to many bad memories J. W. REILLY. 11/11/44
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
49
[hand drawn sketch of a couple dancing with music notes around them]
SWING IT
TO LEN WHITELEY AND HIS BELARIA ORCHESTRA
50
[sketch]
[page break]
[missing pages]
53
[hand drawn coloured drawing of coast road with church in the background]
D. Attwood
[page break]
55
[underlined] Prisoner of War [/underlined]
IT IS A MELANCHOLY STATE. YOU ARE IN THE POWER OF YOUR ENEMIES. YOU OWE YOUR LIFE TO HIS HUMANITY, YOUR DAILY BREAD TO HIS COMPASSION. YOU MUST OBEY HIS ORDERS, AWAIT HIS PLEASURES, POSSESS YOUR SOUL IN PATIENCE. THE DAYS ARE LONG, HOURS CRAWL BY LIKE PARALYTIC CENTIPEDES. MOREOVER, THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE OF PRISON, EVEN THE BEST AND MOST REGULATE OF PRISONS, IS ODIOUS. COMPANIONS QUARREL ABOUT NOTHING AT ALL AND GET THE LEAST POSSIBLE ENJOYMENT FROM
[page break]
54
EACH OTHER’S COMPANY. YOU FEEL A CONSTANT HUMILIATION AT BEING FENCED IN BY RAILINGS AND WIRE, WATCHED BY ARMED GUARDS AND WEBBED BY A TRIANGLE OF REGULATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS.
WINSTON CHURCHILL
Written by Winston Churchill while P.O.W. in Boer hands during Boer War.
[Page break]]
[Missing pages]
58
[underlined] LUCKENWALDE [/underlined]
WERE EDGAR ALLEN POE ALIVE TO SEE THAT GRUESOME PLACE
WERE [sic] NOUGHT BUT EVIL VERMIN THRIVE
AND BREED AT FEARFUL PACE.
THEN EDGAR WOULD, WITH AWFULL [sic] SKILL
DESCRIBE THE FILTH THAT HAUNTS ME STILL
[underlined]
THE SORDID REEK AND STENCH THAT SEEPS
INTO ONES VERY SOUL
THE LOATHSOME BUGS THAT NIGHTLY CREEP.
FROM EVERY LITTLE HOLE
‘NEATH EDGARS PEN AND EDGARS BRAIN
WOULD COME TO LIFE AND LIVE AGAIN
[underlined]
THE SORDID REEK AND STENCH THAT SEEPS
INTO ONES VERY SOUL
THE LOATHSOME BUGS THAT NIGHTLY CREEP.
FROM EVERY LITTLE HOLE
‘NEATH EDGARS PEN AND EDGARS BRAIN
WOULD COME TO LIFE AND LIVE AGAIN
[underlined]
[underlined] AG LANG. [/underlined]
AND YET MUSIC THRIVED. THANKS FOR THE GIT’ GEN GINGER. KEEP JUMPING WHERE EVER YOU ARE. ALL THE BEST
[underlined] REX. [inserted] musical note [/inserted] BENNETT [/underlined]
[page break]
59
[transferred ink from page 58]
[page break]
60
[underlined] WITH APOLOGIES TO WALT WHITMAN AND OF COURSE [/underlined] R. RIPLEY.
OH CAPTAIN, OH MY CAPTAIN OUR FEARFUL TRIP IS DONE,
WE’VE STALLED AND DIVED, TURNED AND CLIMBED,
BUT I THINK THE FLAK HAS WON.
THEY’VE HIT US LEFT AND CENTRE,
AND I THINK YOU’LL SEE OUR PLIGHT
IF WE KEEP ON FLYING LONGER, THEY’LL HIT US IN THE RIGHT
THE PORT ENGINE’S BURNING BRIGHTLY,
THE STARBOARD’S POPPING LOUD,
THE TAILPLANE LOOKS LIKE FALLING OFF,
AND WE’RE DOWN BELOW THE CLOUD.
THERE ARE SEARCHLIGHTS ALL AROUND US,
FLAK, BOTH FRONT AND REAR,
AND EVEN WHEN THEY MISS US
THEY’RE STILL TOO BLOODY NEAR.
TWO FIGHTERS COMING AT US,
ONE ON EITHER BEAM.
AND IF THIS IS NOT A NIGHTMARE,
IT’S A BLOODY AWFUL DREAM!
By D. R. Greig
[inserted] All the best Ginger Glam Evans. F. A. [indecipherable letters] Luckenwalde March 30 th ’45 [/inserted]
[page break]
61
[blank page]
62
[blank page]
63
[sketch of a prisoner of war pulling a sledge in the snow]
“Onward Christian Soldier – The March, Jan. 1945”
James [indecipherable word] – Luckenswalde – March. ‘45
76
[double underlined] THE BAND [/underlined]
[underlined] LEADER [/underlined] - - - [underlined] F/O LEN WHITELEY [/underlined]
[double underlined] DANCE AND THEATRE ORCHESTRA [/underlined]
[underlined] 1ST TRUMPET F/O L. WHITELEY [/underlined] [underlined 1ST ALTO SAX. F/O R. RYDER [/underlined
[underlined] 2ND “ F/O MCPHERSON [/underlined] [underlined] 2ND “ “ F/O J. HUNT [/underlined]
[underlined] 3RD “ F/O W. GROGAN [/underlined] [underlined] 1ST TENOR SAX F/O J. MOSS [/underlined]
[underlined] 4TH “ F/O SMITH [/underlined] [underlined] 2ND “ “ F/LT P. VALLIANCE [/underlined]
[underlined] 1ST GUITAR F/O R.L. RUTHERFORD [/underlined] [underlined] BASS. F/LT H. HANLON [/underlined]
[underlined] 2ND GUITAR W/O A.E. ADAMS. [/underlined] [underlined] PIANO F/LT D. CODD [/underlined]
[underlined] DRUMS J. JAGGER. [/underlined]
[double underlined] CLASSICAL ORCHESTRA [/underlined]
[underlined] 1ST VIOLINN [sic] F/O P. PADDOCK [/underlined] [underlined] 1ST CLARINET F/L D. MILMINE [/underlined]
[underlined] 2ND “ F/O E. DOBIE. [/underlined] [underlined] 2ND “ F/O J. MOSS. [/underlined]
[underlined] 3RD “ F/L J. BATTLE [/underlined] [underlined] CELLO F/L J. HILL [/underlined]
[underlined] 4TH “ F/O R. RYDER [/underlined] [underlined] FLUTE F/O G MACCRAE. [/underlined]
[underlined] 5TH “ F/LT. J. HALL [/underlined] [underlined] BASS F/L H. HANLON [/underlined]
[underlined] TRUMPET F/O L. WHITELEY [/underlined] [underlined] PIANO F/L D. CODD [/underlined]
[double underlined] SWING OCTETTE [/underlined]
[underlined] TRUMPET F/O LEN WHITELEY [/underlined] [underlined] PIANO F/L J. HILL [/underlined]
[underlined] CLARINET F/O REG RYDER [/underlined] [underlined] TENOR SAX F/O J. MOSS [/underlined]
[underlined] GUITARS F/O R.L. RUTHERFORD [/underlined] [underlined] & [/underlined] [underlined] W/O A.E ADAMS [/underlined]
[underlined] BASS F/L H. HANLON [/underlined] [underlined] DRUMS F/O J. JAGGER [/underlined]
[double underlined] TANGO SECTION [/underlined]
[underlined] ACCORDION. F/O REG RYDER [/underlined] [underlined] TENOR SAX. F/O J. MOSS [/underlined]
[underlined] GUITARS. F/O R.L. RUTHERFORD [/underlined] & [underlined] W/O A.E. ADAMS [/underlined]
[underlined] BASS. F/L H. HANLON [/underlined] [underlined] DRUMS F/O J. JAGGER. [/underlined]
[page break]
77
[double underlined] THE THEATRE. [/underlined]
[diagram showing theatre layout]
[underlined] ENTERTAINMENTS OFFICER [/underlined] [underlined] WING COMMANDER W.B. MEHARG. [/underlined]
[underlined] SETS DESIGNED BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/O D. BLACK AND F/O F. ALLEN. [/underlined]
[underlined] SETS BUILT BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/0 T.W.E. HUGHES AND [blank] [/underlined]
[underlined] LIGHTING BY [/underlined] [underlined] S/L DESTERIDGE [/underlined]
[underlined] MUSICAL DIRECTOR [/underlined] [underlined] F/O L. WHITELEY [/underlined]
[underlined] MAKE-UP BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/LT. C. BUCKLEY. [/underlined]
[line]
[underlined] MARCH. 24TH [/underlined] [underlined] PRODUCTIONS [/underlined]
[underlined] “SPRINGTIME FOR HENRY” [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/O P. JACOBS AND W/O LAWRENCE [/underlined]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. JACOBS. [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. FREEMANTLE [/underlined]
[underlined] W/O W. LAWRENCE [/underlined] [underlined] F/O R. ENGLAND. [/underlined]
[5 lines]
[underlined] 27TH MARCH. 44. [/underlined] [double underlined] “ROPE” [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCER [/underlined] [underlined] F/L J. HALL. [/underlined]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] F/L J. HALL. [/underlined] [underlined] S/L PESTERIDGE [/underlined]
[underlined] W/O LEES. [/underlined] [underlined] F/L P. VALLIANCE [/underlined]
[underlined] D. BLACK. [/underlined] [line]
[7 lines]
[underlined] 2ND MAY. [/underlined] [double underlined] “HAYFEVER” [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY :- [/underlined] - - - - - - [underlined] W/O. LAWRENCE. [/underlined]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] B. KENNEDY [/underlined] [underlined] S/L PESTERIDGE [/underlined]
[underlined] F/L G. SPROATES [/underlined] [underlined] J. FREEMANTLE. [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. CORYTON. [/underlined] [underlined] LT. T. MAYS.
[underlined] S/L ANDERSON [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. JAGGER [/underlined]
[underlined] W/O H. THORNE [/underlined]
[page break]
78
[underlined] 24TH MAY [/underlined] [underlined] ARSENIC AND OLD LACE [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/L J. HALL.
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] F/L C. BUCKLEY [/underlined] [underlined] F/L NICHOLSON [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. DAULBY [/underlined] [underlined] S/L BELL [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O J. RUSSELL [/underlined] [underlined] S/L HUGHES. [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O S. GRAHAM [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. LAUNDER [/underlined]
[2 lines]
[2 lines]
[underlined] 12TH JUNE [/underlined] [double underlined] REVUE [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY [/underlined] [underlined] F/L J. HILL. [/underlined]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] S/L ANDERSON. [/underlined] [underlined] F/O B. KENNEDDY. [sic] [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O WHITELEY [/underlined] [underlined] F/O R. RYDER [/underlined]
[underlined] W/O WAINWRIGHT [/underlined] [underlined] F/L C. BUCKLEY. [/underlined]
[underlined] W/O T. LAWRENCE [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. FREEMANTLE. [/underlined]
[underlined] F/L D. BLACK. [/underlined] AND [underlined] F/L A. LONGILLE. [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O C. PITCHFORD [/underlined] CHORUS [underlined] W/O R WAGSTAFFE. [/underlined]
[underlined] 28TH AUGUST [/underlined] [double underlined] SOMEONE AT THE DOOR [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY :- [/underlined] [underlined] F/O. P JACOBS. & W/O T. LAWRENCE [/underlined]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. JACOBS. [/underlined] [underlined] F/O T. GRIFFITHS [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. DAULBY [/underlined] [underlined] F/L C. BUCKLEY [/underlined]
[underlined] T. LAWRENCE [/underlined] [underlined] W/O RYDER [/underlined]
[line]
[underlined] 11TH SEPTEMBER [/underlined] [double underlined] BAND SHOW [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY :- [/underlined] [underlined] LEN WHITELEY. [/underlined]
[underlined] WITH [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O P. JACOBS. [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. ROSS [/underlined] [underlined] W/O R. WAGSTAFFE [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O J KENNEDY [/underlined] [underlined] F/O R. RYDER [/underlined] [underlined] F/L A. LONGILLE. [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O A. DARLOW. [/underlined] [underlined] F/O L. WHITELEY. [/underlined] [blank line]
[underlined] 3RD OCTOBER [/underlined] [double underlined] FRENCH WITHOUT TEARS. [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY:- [/underlined] [blank line]
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
[underlined] F/O J. FREEMANTLE [/underlined] [underlined] S/L ANDERSON [/underlined]
[underlined] S/L J. PESTERIDGE [/underlined] [underlined] F/O J. LAUNDER [/underlined]
[underlined] F/L J. AYR [/underlined] [blank line]
[2 blank lines]
[double underlined] MAJOR BARBARA [/underlined]
[underlined] PRODUCED BY:- [/underlined] [underlined] F/L P. VALLIANCE [/underlined]
[blank line] [underlined] 21ST OCTOBER [/underlined] [blank line]
[3 blank lines]
[3 blank lines]
[page break]
79
[underlined] RECORDS [/underlined]
[page divided into two columns]
[first column] [underlined] HEARD [/underlined]
RECORD SESSION. BY HARRY JAMES.
PRINCE CHARMING. BY HARRY JAMES.
ANVIL CHORUS BY GLENN MILLER.
YES INDEED “ TOMMY DORSEY.
STRING OF PEARLS “ GLENN MILLER.
THE WORLD IS WAITING “ GOODMAN QUARTETTE
AFTER YOU’VE GONE “ BENNY GOODMAN
WHY DON’T YOU DO RIGHT “ BENNY GOODMAN
STORY OF A STARRY NIGHT “ GLENN MILLER
[second column] [underlined] RECOMMENDED [/underlined]
LOVE ME OR LEAVE ME BY GOODMAN [deleted] QUARTETTE [/deleted]
ST LOUIS BLUES. BY GLENN MILLER
MOONLIGHT SONATA BY GLENN MILLER
ROYAL GARDEN BLUES “ GOODMAN [deleted] QUAR [/deleted] SEXTETTE
JAZZ ME BLUES “ KRUPA’S ALL STAR BAND
TRUMPET CONCERTO “ HARRY JAMES
SLIPHORN JIVE “ GLENN MILLER
CLARINET CONCERTO “ ARTIE SHAW
BENNY RIDES AGAIN “ GOODMAN ORCHESTRA
SMO-O-O-TH ONE “ GOODMAN SEXTETTE
THINGS AREN’T WHAT “ JOHNNY HODGES
WHERE OR WHEN “ GOODMAN 6 WITH PEGGY LEE.
SUNNY SIDE OF THE STREET “ LIONEL HAMPTON
YOU’R’E [sic] BLASÈ [sic] “ SUNNY DUNHAM
LET’S DO IT. “ GOODMAN WITH PEGGY LEE
IF I HAD YOU “ GOODMAN SEXTETTE
[page divided into 4 columns]
[underlined] THE THEATRE (CTD.) [/underlined]
[across first and second columns] THE ASTONISHED OSTRICH
PRODUCED BY F/O P. JACOBS & W/O LAWRENCE
[underlined] CAST [/underlined]
F/O T. GRIFFITHS F/O B. KENNEDY
W/O T. LAWRENCE F/O J. NORMANDALE
F/O J. FREEMANTLE.
[line]
GEORGE AND MARGARET.
[line]
MR. CORN COMES TO TOWN
[line]
THE FIRST MRS FRASER
[line]
[underlined] DEC 26TH [/underlined] FANFARE.
[line]
TONY DRAWS A HORSE
[line]
[across third and fourth columns] [underlined] FILMS. [/underlined]
DIXIE DUGAN
80
[underlined]RED CROSS PARCELS CONTENTS[/underlined]
[underlined]BRITISH[/underlined]
1 tin CORNED BEEF 1/2Lb
1 tin MEAT GALANTINE
1 tin POWDERED EGG EQUIVALENT 2 EGGS
1 tin NESTLES CONDENSED MILK
1 TIN MARGARINE 1/4Lb
1 PKT SUGAR 1/2Lb
1 BAR CHOCOLATE 1/4Lb
1 tin BISCUITS
1 tin PROCESSED CHEESE 2ozs
1 tin COCOA
1 tin SALMON
1 tin JAM
1 PKT TEA 2ozs
[underlined]CANADIAN[/underlined]
1 TIN POWDERED MILK
1 tin SPAM
1 tin CORNED BEEF 1/2Lb
1 tin [deleted]BUTTER[/deleted]JAM 1/2Lb
1 PKT COFFEE
1 PKT SUGAR 1/2Lb
1 tin SALMON
1 tin SARDINES
1 tin BUTTER 1/2Lb
1 PKT BISCUITS
1 PKT CHOCOLATE 1/4Lb
1 PKT CHEESE 2ozs
[underlined]AMERICAN[/underlined]
1 tin POWDERED MILK
1 tin CORNED BEEF 1/2Lb
1 tin MEAT PATÉ
1 tin MARGARINE 1/2Lb
1 PKT BISCUITS
1 tin JAM 1/4Lb
1 PKT CHEESE 1/2Lb
1 tin SPAM
1 tin SALMON
1 tin SOLUBLE COFFEE
1 PKT SUGAR 1/2Lb
1 BAR CHOCOLATE 1/4Lb
60 CIGARETTES
[underlined]NEW ZEALAND[/underlined]
1 tin CONDENSED MILK
1 tin HONEY
1 PKT PEAS
1 PKT SUGAR 1/2Lb
1 tin CHEESE 1/2Lb
1 tin CORNED BEEF.
1 tin BUTTER 1/2Lb
1 tin JAM 1/2Lb
1 tin CAFÉ-AU-LAIT
1 PKT TEA. 1/4Lb
1 BAR CHOCOLATE 1/4Lb
[underlined]GERMAN RATIONS FOR 1 WEEK[/underlined]
1/4Lb SUGAR
2ozs JAM
2ozs CHEESE
2ozs MEAT
1oz. SAUSAGE
POTATOES
VEGETABLES
1/4LB BARLEY
1/4Lb MARGARINE
1 1/5 LVS. BREAD
[page break]
81
[underlined]TYPICAL P.O.W. RECIPES: SWEETS.[/underlined]
[underlined]CAKE[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
4 tins ENGLISH BISCUITS
1 tin 1/2Lb MARGARINE
1 tin EGG POWDER
5 TABLESPOONS SUGAR
SALT
Crush BISCUITS to a fine powder and place into a bowl. MELT MARGARINE and mix into flour adding SUGAR and a pinch of SALT. MIX the powdered egg and add to mixture. KNEAD thoroughly Line baking tin [deleted]and[/deleted] with greased paper and place mixture INSIDE BAKE in a moderate OVEN for 25-30 mins. RAISINS may be included in mixture if required. When cool, ICE with a mixture of 1 BAR CHOCOLATE and 1 TABLESPOON MARGARINE WHICH has been melted to a smooth paste.
[underlined]PANCAKES[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
1 PKT CANADIAN BISCUITS
1 tin POWDERED EGG.
MILK.
Crush BISCUITS to a fine powder and place into a bowl. ADD MILK [deleted]and mix[/deleted] gradually, stirring until you have a fine paste. MIX EGG and add to mixture. Place a little cooking fat in a frying pan and melt. Pour in 3 Tablespoons of mixture. FRY UNTIL Golden brown. ENOUGH FOR 20 PANCAKES.
[underlined]FRIED BISCUITS[/underlined]
Place Canadian biscuits (one biscuit per man0 into a bowl of water and soak for 10-11 hours. WHen[sic] thoroughly SOAKED slice[deleted]d[/deleted] biscuits and spread inside with jam. Place in a well greased tin and bake in moderate oven for 20 mins. Serve with milk sauce. The biscuits can also be fried individually as for PANCAKES.
[underlined]BREAD PUDDING[/underlined]
There are many varieties of this dish but the following is most common:- GRATE GERMAN BREAD into crumbs and place into a bowl. Melt 1/2 of MARGARINE and add to crumbs. ADD 1/2 PKT RAISINS or Prunes (or both) and 2 or 3 tablespoons SUGAR. Mix thoroughly. IF MIXTURE is still too dry add MILK. Place into a grease tin and bake for 25-20 mins in a a moderate oven. SERVE with MILK SAUCE.
82
[underlined]TYPICAL P.O.W. RECIPES: SPREADS.[/underlined]
[underlined]CHEESE SPREAD[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
1 PKT AMERICAN CHEESE
1/4Lb MARGARINE
MILK
CUT Cheese into small pieces and place into saucepan with a small amount of milk. Heat until cheese is melted. then[sic] add MARGARINE. STIR continuously until mixture is nicely smooth. Add more milk making mixture fairly liquid. Empty into a tin to cool and set. IF tomatoes are available skin about 4 or 5 and add to mixture before adding MARGARINE.
[underlined]MEAT SPREAD[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
1 tin Rose Mill Pate.
1 tin MEAT GALANTINE.
1 CHOPPED ONION.
1 TABLESPOON MARGARINE
CHOP the PATÉ and GALANTINE into small pieces and place together with ONIONS and MARGARINE INTO SAUCE PAN. HEAT UNTIL a think paste is made. Stirring continuously. PLACE INTO A Tin to cool or serve hot as required.
[underlined]PRUNE SPREAD[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
BOILED PRUNES
SUGAR
MILK.
Stone PRUNES AND PLACE INTO A SAUCEPAN. ADD Sugar and a little MILK. IF ORANGE POWDER IS AVAILABLE THIS MAY BE ADDED TOO. BOIL FOR ABOUT 10 MINUTES THEN LEAVE TO COOL.
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83
[underlined]TYPICAL P.O.W. RECIPES.[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
POTATOES
CORNED BEEF
BOIL and Mash the potatoes. Add 3 tablespoons of POWDERED MILK and a little MARGARINE. TURN INTO A Greased baking dish and mould into shape of a box. Shred the corned beef and mix with a little milk tomatoes may be added if available. Place meat with potatoes and bake in a moderate oven until potatoes are golden brown.
[underlined]HOT-POT[/underlined]
INGREDIENTS:-
POTATOES
MEAT (SPAM or CORNED BEEF
Cut the meat into small pieces and lay in the bottom of a baking tin. Peel potatoes and slice into thin Fritters and lay over the meat. Poor in enough water to cover the meat and place on top of stove unit water boils then place in oven for about 30 mins until potatoes are browned.
84
[underlined] Menu for Christmas Dinner
Belaria 1944
Room 17 Block 15. [/underlined]
[missing] inserted menu is missing [/missing]
[page break]
[two missing pages]
87
[double underlined] Christmas Day Belaria 1944. [/double underlined]
For some two or three months before Christmas food was laid aside so that on Christmas day we could have a day of reasonably good meals. Unfortunately on November 17 the Germans ordered that all food stores must be liquidated and so we were given three days to eat our existing store. They allowed us however to keep a large Red Cross box (Container for 8 ordinary Red Cross parcels) in the Vorlager, to be drawn out 1 week before Christmas. The issue 51 Christmas parcels (American) came on 23RD DEC. and a list of contents the [sic] recipes for the cakes and puddings, and menu for the day follows.
[double underlined] American Christmas Parcel [/double underlined]
[underlined] Issue:- 2/3 of Parcel per Man
Contents [/underlined]
1 Tin Christmas Pudding 16oz
1 Pkt Dates 16oz
50 Cigarettes
1 Tin Turkey 14 oz
1 Tin Cherries 9 oz
1 Pkt Playing Cards
1 Tin Vienna Sausages 4oz
1 Tin Salted Nuts 7oz
1 Game (Chess, Checkers, etc.)
1 Tin Chopped Ham 4ox
1 Tin Mixed Sweets 12oz
1 Face Cloth.
1 Tin Cheese 4oz
4 Pkts Chewing Gum
1 Tin Jam 6oz
1 Pkt Tea 1 1/2 oz
2 Fruit Bars
1 Tin Honey 8oz.
12 Soup Cubes
1 Pipe + 2oz Tobacco
1 Tin Butter 4oz.
[double underlined] Recipes [/double underlined]
[underlined] Christmas Cake
Ingredients:- [/underlined]
10 Pkts American Biscuits
1/2 Loaf German Bread
1 Lb Sugar
1/2 Lb Turkish Fruit
1/2 Lb Prunes
1 Lb Raisins
Nuts from Prune Stones
Milk : Salt
1/2 Lb Margarine
[underlined] Directions: [/underlined]
CRUSH the biscuits into a fine flour and grate up the bread. Place into mixing bowl. Melt the margarine and add to flour. Mix thoroughly. Add the sugar, fruit, and raisins. The prunes should be boiled beforehand, chopped and stoned. The stones should then be cracked and the nut taken from inside. These should be chopped and added to the cake mixture. Add a pinch of salt and if the mixture is too dry, add milk. Mix thoroughly. Grease two large baking tins of equal size and turn mixture into them. Bake in a moderate oven for 1 hour – 1 1/2 hours. Make an icing by melting down 1/4 chocolate and 1/2 tablespoon of margarine, and a little water. Ice one of the cakes with this icing and when almost set, place the other cake on top. Make a white icing by taking 1/2 sugar, and enough very thick klim to cover the cake. Mix up into a very thick paste and boil for a short while. (2-3 minutes) Lay the icing smoothly over the cake.
WEIGHT approx 12-14 lbs.
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88
[underlined] Christmas Pudding
Ingredients:- [/underlined]
10 Pkts American Biscuits
1 Loaf German Bread
1 Lb Sugar
1/2 Lb Margarine
1 Lb Raisins
1/2 Lb Prunes
Salt : Klim.
[underlined] Directions:- [/underlined]
Crush the biscuits and grate up the loaf and place in mixing bowl. Melt down margarine and add to flour. Add sugar and mix well. Boil the prunes and stone and chop finely. Add Raisins and Prunes and a 1/2 teaspoon of salt. If mixture is too dry add fairly thick Klim. Mix thoroughly. Grease 4 bowls and turn mixture into these. Cover with cloth and boil for 4 1/2 – 5 hours.
[underlined] Angel Cakes
Ingredients:- [/underlined]
4 Pkts American Biscuits
1/4 Lb Margarine
1/4 Lb Sugar
Salt : Klim
[underlined] Directions:- [/underlined]
Crush the biscuits down to a fine flour and place in mixing bowl. Melt margarine and add to flour. Add sugar and a pinch of salt. Mix thoroughly. Grease an individual cake tin and turn mixture into [indecipherable word]. Bake in moderate oven for 30 minutes. When finished allow to cool. Make a mixture of very thick Klim and sugar. Slice the top off each cake in such a manner as to leave a hollow in the cake. Fill the hollow with the Klim mixture. Cut the top into two pieces and stick into the Klim so that it gives the appearance of wings. Enough for 12 cakes.
[underlined] Mince Pies [/underlined]
Make the same mixture as for Angel cakes, but bake in the form of a cup. Bake in moderate oven for 15-20 mins. Make the filling from Chopped date, Chopped Prunes, raisins, a little [deleted] chop [/deleted] grated carrot and sugar.
Boil in a saucepan with a little water and fill up cakes. Makes 12 pies.
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89
[blank page]
90
[underlined] A TYPICAL DAY AT BELARIA [/underlined]
[underlined] 9.00 AM [/underlined] First hot water issue. Hot brew in bed by cooks.
[underlined] 10.00 AM [/underlined] Appell. Parade outside to be counted by Goons. Usually lasts 15-20 mins. After Appell, the room was cleaned out generally and the cooks began to prepare lunch or peel potatoes in readiness for dinner. The rest of the chaps did odd jobs that needed doing. Usually spent reading or arguing. Hot water for “dobie” issued as 10.50. Usually wait for this water As shave.
[underlined] 12.30 P.M [/underlined] Hot brew water issue. Lunch (3 slices of toast, spreads & coffee). Afternoons usually spent in visiting libraries or visiting different people, or once again just sitting around reading or arguing.
[underlined] 4.00 P.M. [/underlined] Afternoon Appell. Immediately after appell, there was a hot water issue for tea. Tea was usually just that, although sometimes we had a slice of toast.
[underlined] 7.00 P.M. [/underlined] Evening period on above. Dinner prepared. Usually consisted of:- Potatoes, whatever vegetables the goons gave us, and either Spam or Corned Beef. A sweet was usually served – either barley or something prepared from biscuits.
[underlined] 10.00 P.M. [/underlined] Time on stove to boil water for evening brew. This was usually followed by a game of bridge. Lock-up was at 10.00 too.
[underlined] 12.00. [,underlined] Lights out.
[line]
[underlined] REVIEW OF LIFE AT BELARIA [/underlined]
As can be seen, the most of the day was spent reading, arguing, or doing odd jobs such as washing, shaving, bed-making, darning and sewing etc. I usually had band rehearsals for 1 hour during some part of the day, and immediately before a show sometimes four or even five times a day, (playing with different sections). The Red Cross parcels were issued on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, then when the goons brought in the order prohibiting stores of food, they were issued one each day. The food had to be turned out of the tins and the empty tins returned immediately. Bread was issued on Tuesday and Friday. Barley was issued already cooked on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The rest of the rations, sugar, jam, cheese etc came in on Saturday afternoon.
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91
[underlined] LIFE AT BELARIA CTD. [/underlined]
During the summer months, the weather was unusually good and there was lots of sunbathing. Sports played were, Cricket, basketball, hockey and six-a-side soccer. There were also a volley-ball court and two deck tennis courts.
During the winter months, the weather was very miserable and cold and most of the time was spent indoors. The main sport was skating and ice hockey.
A certain percentage of each officer’s pay was deducted each month, equivalent to what was paid us by the Goons. This money was used for canteen issues (tooth paste, soap, brushes, etc. bought from the Goon canteen. It was also used to buy theatrical equipment and hire costumes for the different plays. In the early spring a large amount of seeds were bought and a plot of ground allotted to each mess to be used as a garden. The resulting crop of tomatoes, onions, lettuce, parsnips, carrots etc. was most surprisingly good.
The food question was always very ticklish, no-one ever having food enough to say that he was happily satisfied, especially when the parcel issue was cut by half. The method of cooking and messing was as follows:- When we first arrived we were placed in rooms of eight. This later went up to 10 and later again to 12. Two of the mess did the cooking and everything concerned with cooking, (washing-up, preparing etc) for 2 days at a time. Two periods were allotted on the stove which was in the kitchen at the end of the block. Due particulars periods were 2.00 P.M - 2-45 P.M and 7.00 P.M. – 7.45 P.M. A light meal was served for lunch and the main meal was dinner at 7.45.
On the whole life at Belaria, although monotonous and boring could have been very much worse.
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92
[underlined] A TYPICAL DAY AT LUCKENWALDE [/underlined]
8.15 AM Hot mint tea. Rise, wash and breakfast (cup of mint tea and 1 slice of bread)
9.00 AM Appell. After appell there was nothing to do except be on our beds and talk, (usually of food).
1.00 P.M. Soup and Potatoes issue. 1 Cup of soup and about 4 medium potatoes.
4.30 P.M. Appell. Immediately following appell. another issue of mint tea.
7.00 P.M. Supper. Four slices of bread & butter.
10.00 P.M. Lights out.
[underlined] REVIEW OF LIFE AT LUCKENWALDE [/underlined]
Life at Luckenwalde was just one long, boring, miserable time. Food was short, quarters were bad & conditions were bad. Most of our time was spent lying on our beds playing cards or talking of what we would do and what we would eat when we got home. The food issue consisted of 1/5 of a loaf of bread per man 1 cup of soup, 4 medium sized potatoes, 2 cups of mint tea (one at 8.15 AM and the other at 4.45 P.M) approximately 1 oz of margarine [underlined] or [/underlined] a spread of some description and sugar and salt. It was a big day when the Norwegians from another compound sent us 250 parcels, enough for 1/5 of a parcel per man. The M.O. from across the wire (where the N.C.O’s from a camp on the Polish frontier are stationed} raised a scream and said that he had men dying on their feet over there. We offered him 30 parcels for his sick to which he replied that the sick couldn’t eat anyway that it was the others he was worried about, and he thought that all the parcels should go over there. After careful enquiries the Group Captain decided that they were no worse off than we were and so the parcels were issued to us. Each parcel contained 1/2 lb rolled oats, 1/2 lb sausage, 1/2 lb syrup, 50 biscuits; 1 lb sugar, 1/2 lb butter, 1/2 lb cheese.
This had to be shared among 5 men. It wasn’t much but it seemed terrific to us on the present rations.
There were very, very few books and these had to be carefully issued. The method was to give one book to 10 chaps to read. It had to be returned in 5 days so usually about 3-4 chaps read it and the rest did without.
We lived in a barrack block, containing 150 men. These were divided into messes of 20. There was very little room for moving about, and everything including eating was done on our beds.
Then came the great day. On March 7th a train-load of parcels arrived at the station and on the 8th we secured a full American parcel each. It was a terrific day. Chaps didn’t make allowance for the
[page break]
fact that they had been on such short rations and made themselves sick. It was really surprising for the first few days how little it took to fill us. However we soon settled down to it. Then came the Rhine crossing, and the terrific advances which followed. Optimism reached a new high in the camp as the Allies came nearer, and everyone waited expectantly for the expected Russian offensive to start.
On March 9th a rumour came in from a reliable source stating that we were moving to Munich on the 11th. We prepared to move. The rumour was confirmed the next day and we actually marched to the station and entrained on the 12th.. However the goons told us on the night of the 13th that we should be returning to camp the next day. They said that owing to the repeated objections of the SBO they had decided not to move us. We ourselves could think of lots of other reasons. However the experience was quite enjoyable. Most of the boys had brought along their blowers and smokies and cooking went on all along the siding. One chap in our box car kept a fire going all day with continuous supply of hot water for brews. A good effort. We moved on the morning after we arrived there to another siding along side a road, and despite the goon attempts to stop it, trading started immediately. Of course after a while, we had the usual set of fools who offered more cigarettes than anyone else and sent the prices rocketing. A loaf of bread was being bought for 100 cigarettes. (When we arrived we could get it for 20.)
On returning to camp we found most of the bed-boards missing but luckily I had slung my bed and had no bed board worries. Terrific rumours of how far the Americans were from us. During the week following everyone was tense & hanging on every
Ctd. on PAGE 98.
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94
[underlined] EXTRACTS FROM LETTERS RECEIVED BY P.O.W.’s. [/underlined]
1st Letter from Fianceè [sic] --- Dear Jack, - You were posted missing for a month so I got married –
- First party of repatriated prisoners arrived home badly maimed, praying you will be among the next -
- I hope you are not being extravagant with the pocket money you get –
Prisoner received a Red + sweater with name & address of donor. He wrote thanking donor. Following is part of reply – I am sorry that it went to you. I meant it for some-one [sic] on Active Service. –
We had 2 repatriated prisoners home last week --- At 8.30 they were under the table --- they were revived but were under another table at 9.30.
- I hope you are [crossed out] enjoying [/crossed out] behaving yourself at the dances and not drinking too much beer.
- P.O.W a year – received a letter congratulating him on joining the armed forces.
- Darling – I just had a baby, but don’t worry, the American officer is sending you cigarettes each week.
- Letter from mother of Canadian P.O.W. – “German P.O.W.’s in Canada are issued with flannels to play tennis – are you?
- Letter from fiancée of Air Crew P.O.W – “I would rather marry a 1943 hero that [sic] a 1940 coward.
- Take care of Andy when you are out drinking – He is so wild.
- Are the German girls good dancers.
- From fiancée to P.O.W:- “Darling – I married your father [symbol] mother.
- When your brother heard you were P.O.W he rushed right out and joined the Home Guard.
- Please do not write to Bill any more, he’s been dead 2 years.
- I wonder if you are as tired as I am of this war.
- On Jap war “You chaps will have plenty of opportunity to make up for wasted time.
- From nurse in M.E. “I am hoping to go on leave in March if this whole thing has blown over by then.
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95
- You were smart to get yourself parked in Germany for the duration. Look what wonderful stories you will have to tell your children
- You must n’t forget there’s a war on –
- From Fiancee [sic] to P.O.W. “Although I am now married I want you to know that I think the world of you and you will always be near and dear to me.
- By the way I am now a fully-blown engaged girl.
- I hope you are keeping fighting fit dear. I am saving some mistletoe and a couch for you so please come quick.
- It is very good of the Germans allowing their prisoners to correspond with their relatives. By the way, do you want me to send you any money or anything.
- Twinkle, Twinkle little star
Went for a ride in a motor car,
What I did, I aint admittin’
What I’m knittin’ aint for Britain.
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96
[blank page]
97
[double underlined] HEBREWS 13 v 8. [/underlined]
[picture of man with bowl, spoon and fork]
Best of luck – [underlined] ‘Ginge’ [/underlined]
Yours ‘Jock’
F/Lt. William Reid V.C.
Belaria Stalag Luft III
[underlined] Germany [/underlined] 25.1.45
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98
news item. Then came the big day. APRIL 21. At about 1.00 PM. All the guards left the camp, and the Russian prisoners just ran riot. They were running along outside with sacks of potatoes, clothing and all sorts of odds and ends. One defence scheme went into operation and was soon running smoothly. On the morning of the 22nd we saw our first Russian forces when tanks and lorries entered the camp and took away the Russian prisoners. Everyone was in high spirits and, of course, rumours were rife. The Americans were reported to be only 7 Kms away. However, on the 23rd we were told that we were to remain here until the Americans arrived which should be in about 4-5 days. The link up took longer than they expected however and in the meantime a terrific reaction set in. The chaps were all keen to be home and could talk of nothing else. The food situation improved tremendously and we received personal parcels from the unclaimed store. Wireless sets were requisitioned from town and every block had its own wireless set. Everything possible was done for our comfort during the remainder of our period at Luckenwalde.
The link up took place after what seemed like months of waiting on the 24th. We received the news on the 26th – 5 days which seemed as many months, after our liberation. 5 days of [indecipherable word], rumours, excitement and most important better food.
The Repatriation Committee, all Russian, arrived on the night of 28th. They brought with them 50 lorries, full of food, and on the staff were 20 women. This staff had handled other camps which had been freed but when they arrived here, they said that our position was unique, in that we were the first they had handled who may go home. West instead of by Odessa. They didn’t know when they arrived just how we would go, but they promised that there would be transport from the moment we left the camp, in other words, no more marching.
The on 3rd May two American War correspondents showed up in the camp and they said that they didn’t know we were here until some of our boys arrived at their H.Q. This browned us off no end. We were all sick of sitting around waiting to go home. Here we were two weeks after liberation and as far as we could see, no nearer home. Spirits in the camp were lower than ever they had been before. After the visit of the correspondents there was an
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99
almost mass evacuation of the camp. Everywhere chaps could be seen getting ready to leave the camp to make their own way to the American lines. It was so boring at the camp that this attitude of “anything to get out of here” was quite understandable. There was so much to lose by going that Frank & I decided not to go but to see the thing through to the end. Fortunately on the afternoon of the day following the Yank’s visit, two armoured cars and 3 jeeps came to the camp and told us we were to be taken out unofficially the day after and preparations were made to move out! Unfortunately the Russians refused to allow us to move as they had been given no authority to allow us to go. The SBO resigned his post as Officer 1/2 the whole camp and said that he would command the British troops only. (A copy of his letter will be found on Page 106). Stirring scenes were witnessed when the lorries left empty on the morning of May 7. The Russians refused to allow anyone to board the lorries and the few chaps who managed to get abroad as the lorries were passing were unloaded further down the road and brought back to camp. It was announced later in the day that when actually asked to show the official permission to evacuate us, the American officer admitted that they were doing it unofficially so once again we had to swallow our disappointment and settle down again to wait. The VE. day celebrations were heard over the wireless all day and we listened in silence broken occasionally by some caustic comment. We were a bunch of very disappointed ex-Kriegies. The war was over officially but from our point of view we were still prisoners.
On May 12 we were told we were to move to the [indecipherable word] the following day. We moved into a hut which had no beds, but managed to find enough double tier bunks for our room. It was certainly much brighter than our other accomodation [sic], but we had to put in quite a lot of work to get it cleaned up after the Frenchmen.
The at last came the great day, MAY 20th when we were taken out to the American lines across the River Elbe. On the night of the 19th the siren sounded the recall signal at 8.30 and it was announced that our repatriation papers had been signed and that we would probably move off the next day. The next day (which was Whit Sunday) saw the arrival of the lorries. We boarded the lorries at 12.30 and after a troublesome journey owing to road demolitions etc. we arrived at the Elbe and were transferred to American lorries and taken to a camp near HALLE.
And so ended a period of Kriegie life full of events. We experienced all the emotions of sheer misery, joy, expectancy, frustration, disappointment as never before. I have never, repeat never, been so glad to leave any place as I was to leave Luckenwalde.
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100
[underlined] Highlights of Belaria [/underlined]
[sketches of camp life]
[underlined] “Lousy Communique [/underlined] [sketch of a large man and a small man walking away]
[underlined]’Shoot’ [/underlined] [sketch of man throwing a basketball at a basket behind the SBO’s back]
[underlined] Circuit Bashing [/underlined] [sketch of a soldier marching under a cloud in the rain]
[underlined] ‘Water Up’ [/underlined] [sketch of men walking towards a building with pitchers and pails of water]
[underlined] “The Cooler” [/underlined] [sketch of a guard pointing towards a door while a man with a bowed head walks towards a second guard]
[underlined] Belaria Air [/underlined] [sketch of a man with a sewage tank]
[underlined] SIX A-SIDE SOCCER?[/underlined] [sketch of a football match with a brawl in the centre of the pitch]
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101
[underlined] Highlights of Belaria Ctd[/underlined]
[sketches of camp life]
[underlined] Abort Equipment [/underlined] [sketch of man with a peg on his nose]
[underlined] Bed-time [/underlined] [sketch of man climbing into top bunk stepping on the head of the occupant of the bottom bunk]
[sketch of man asleep in bed dreaming of food]
[underlined] Bath-day [/underlined] [man singing in in bath tub]
[underlined] Wash-up Time [/underlined] [man standing at table full of crockery]
[underlined] “I’m only half the man I was – ruddy half parcels. [/underlined] [sketch of half a soldier]
[underlined] New Purge Arrival[/underlined] [sketch of rows of men]
[underlined] Two Hours Later [/underlined] [sketch of group of men gathered around asking questions of a seated man]
[page break]
102 Highlights of Belaria [underlined] Ctd [/underlined]
[sketches of camp life]
[underlined] APPEL THROUGH THE YEAR. [/underlined] [sketch of a man and the climate for each month of the year]
[underlined] RUMOURS [/underlined] [sketch of five men and the sequence of a rumour]
[underlined] Night School [/underlined] [sketch of three men at a table playing cards while another looks on]
[underlined] The Abort Serenaders [/underlined] [sketch of three men playing bagpipes, saxophone and clarinet]
[page break]
103
[blank page]
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[pages 104 and 105 missing]
106
Copy of the letter sent by the Senior British Officer to the Russian Commandant on the occasion of the latter refusing to allow the British and American Prisoners of War to be evacuated by American [indecipherable word].
FROM: Senior British Officer Stalag III A.
TO: Russian Commandant 1/2 Repatriation. Stalag III A.
MAY 7 1945.
In order to avoid misunderstanding I am putting into writing the principle statements which I made at our conference last night.
The situation of the British at this camp is now as follows. From 22nd of April, I, at the request of the Russian authorities, have been responsible for the administration and security of the entire camp of 16,000 mixed nationalities. The work of the camp during this time has been carried out mainly by British and American officers and men. It should however, be appreciated that owing to Russian orders, confinement to camp etc., we have had to continue to all intents and purposes, as prisoners. That these orders were a military necessity is, of course clear, but nevertheless, the result has been a lowering of the spirits of all ranks. It is important to understand and make allowances for the mental attitude of prisoners of war who have been liberated but are still denied their freedom.
The food situation up to yesterday, was precarious and the daily ration, even though assisted by American supplies, is still grossly inadequate. It is realized that the Russian authorities overcame great difficulties in providing food at all under harassing circumstances, but it will also be agreed that the supply organisation of this camp performed most of the work. Furthermore, the camp has become even more [inserted] over [/inserted] crowded owing to the influx of Italian refugees. The problems of sanitation are considerable and the general health is threatened.
In spite of all this, the Russian orders were obeyed, and control was maintained up to the 5th of May. On that day, an American officer representing supreme allied H.Q. arrived with instructions to evacuate the Americans and British in that order. His credentials were not accepted by the Russian authorities here, who stated that they could not allow such an evacuation to proceed since they had no order on the subject. An ambulance convoy which also arrived on this day was allowed to evacuate all American and a few British sick.
Yesterday, the American representative from Supreme Allied H.Q. returned with a convoy to carry out his orders. Capt Tehekarov, acting as deputy for Cap Medvedev, who was sick, refused to allow him to proceed with his duties. Later, when an attempt was made to proceed with the evacuation, armed force was used against American troops to prevent their leaving the camp.
No doubt this whole affair is due to a misunderstanding, but the situation created is extremely serious. In spite of continual assurances that we were to be repatriated with the least possible delay, we now see the Russians actively preventing such repatriation. It is impossible for me to explain or justify such action in the eyes of my officers and men. I warned Capt Medvedev on May 4th that such a situation was likely to arise, and that if it did, I could not be responsible for the circumstances.
Last night I was informed for the first time that the chief obstacle to our repatriation was that the registration was not complete. I have repeatedly offered to undertake the whole task of registration. I could have completed it by now if my offer had been accepted. In any case, I cannot believe that the Russians intend that vital interests should be threatened for the sake of a mere formality.
As SBO here, I am responsible above all else for the welfare of my officers and men. This welfare is seriously endangered by the present situation. I therefore demand that the position may be clarified without delay, and that our repatriation may be proceeded with immediately. Failing this I must ask to be enabled to communicate with my Government. Finally I must point out that the present situation renders my position as S.A.O. untenable. I therefore resign that position and from now on must be regarded as responsible only for the British [line]
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110
[Underlined] DIARY [/underlined]
[Underlined] 1943 DEC 20TH [/underlined] Shot down over target (Frankfurt-on-Main) at 7.35 by J.U.88. Aircraft exploded and nose was blown off. I lost consciousness for a short while and came to, to find myself in the nose on my own. Only one hook of parachute fastened but no time to fasten up second, so just pushed clear and pulled ripcord. Only in chute for about 1/2 minute so estimate that I fell from 20,000 to 2 – 3,000 feet before getting clear. Narrow squeak. Knee injured by explosion. Had no control over chute and landed in a wood, backwards. Damaged knee a little more. Lay for a short while to get breath back and then buried my equipment and parachute beneath some bushes. The raid was still in progress and incendiaries and shrapnel were falling all around. I could hear the “cookies” rushing down too. After burying everything I set out walking West. Walked all night without incident, passing through several small towns. Just as dawn was breaking found myself in fairly large town. Several people around but no-one took any notice of me. Wandered round for some time trying to find my way out of the town. One person spoke to me as he passed and I just grunted back “Guten Morgen”. Found my way out at last and found myself on the banks of a very large river. Lay down beneath some bushes and pulled branches over to cover myself. Camouflage effective. Several people passed close by and didn’t see me.
[Underlined] DEC 21ST [/underlined] Lay up all day. Took out my escape maps and discovered that the river was the Rhine and decided on my route for escape from Germany. Ate a Horlicks tablet every four hours. Few exciting moments when party of Germans came along with a dog and dog began sniffing around my hide-out, but some-one called it and it ran off.
When darkness fell, began to walk again. Walked until about 2.20 AM and then began to look for a barn or a haystack to sleep. Challenged suddenly by two sentries. Said Guten Morgen” [sic] and tried to pass. They let me go for a short while until one of them shouted something else. I didn’t know what he said so just carried on. They ran after me and shone a torch on me. After jabbering a few questions they realised suddenly that I was R.A.F. They shot back the bolts of their rifles and ordered me to put my hands up. I did so and they took me to their headquarters. I had been wondering what sentries were doing away out in the country. It transpired later that they were guarding a Halifax which had crashed there. After close questioning and a glass of beer and two slices of bread and cheese, my knee was bandaged and I was taken to bed, with an armed guard in the room beside me.
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[Underlined] DEC 22ND [/underlined] Wakened at about 7 A.M. and taken to “Gulag Luft” at Frankfurt-on-Main. Only incident en route was an old civilian who recognised me as R.A.F. and very kindly came up and spat in my face. There was nothing I could do so I just smiled and said “Danke” at which he flew into a terrific rage. I thought he would hit me but the guards moved him on. I didn’t blame this chap when I saw Frankfurt. It was a shambles. Arrived at “Gulag Luft” and placed in a small cell. 8 feet by 6 feet. Had to undress while all my clothes were searched. Had escape money tucked into toe of flying boot and it was not found. At 12.30 was given a bowl of soup. At 4.30 was given two slices of bread and butter and a cup of mint tea. Terrible stuff. Nothing further
[Underlined] DEC 23RD [/underlined] Wakened at 9. AM by guards and given 2 slices of bread and butter and a cup of mint tea. Bowl of soup at 12.30. Bread and butter and mint tea at 4.30. [deleted word]
Civilian came in during afternoon and said he was from the Red Cross and gave me a form to fill in saying that if I filled it in right away it would be sent off and the folks at home would receive news that I was a P.O.W. so much soon. [sic] The form required to know details such as target, squadron, station etc. so I just refused to fill it in. I signed my name, number and rank, and crossed the rest out.
[Underlined] DEC 24TH [/underlined] Wakened with the usual two slices of bread and mint tea at 9 AM. Soup at 12.30. Bread & mint tea at 4.30. German officer (I think) came in during [deleted word] [inserted] morning [/inserted] to ask for details of squadron and the raid etc. Told him my name and number and refused to say anything else. He almost pleaded with me saying that if I told him, I would be sent to another camp among my comrades for Christmas Day. In the afternoon was taken out to a big office to be interrogated. Chap there asked me for details again and once more I refused, upon which he said that they knew my squadron etc but just wanted to check that I wasn’t a spy. He asked me how Squadron Leader Parks was getting along on his second tour and why we were called the bullseye squadron and lots of other questions which I refused to answer. He then told me that our c.o. had been shot down the same night as I had and that some of the crew were there. I still said nothing. He said that if I would give them just a little information I would go into a camp where I would be among my own friends but I still kept quiet, and was eventually taken back to Cell 61. Brought
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From my cell at about 7.00 P.M and taken to a corridor where there were a lot of other chaps among them Tommy Hughes who I knew well and his “second dicky”, Peter Boyle Personal belongings were returned and we were taken to a separate place through the barbed wire. We went into a barrack block there and found places to sleep. Tommy and I slept together on the top of a double tier bed.
[Underlined] DEC 25. [/underlined] Taken this morning to the transit camp on the other side of Frankfurt. Christmas dinner waiting for us when we get there. A lovely meal including a small portion of Christmas Pudding and biscuits. Sing-song in the dining hall at night.
[Underlined] DEC 26. [/underlined] Reported sick after breakfast and admitted to hospital with water-on-the knee
[Underlined] DEC 31 [/underlined Saw New Year in on my own. Could hear the sing-song in the blocks but no-one in hospital.
[Underlined] 1944 [/underlined]
[Underlined] JAN 8 [/underlined] Left Frankfurt in cattle trucks en-route to Sagan. Stalag Luft III
[Underlined] JAN 10 [/underlined] Arrived Sagan. Taken to Belaria camp. Moved straight into hospital. The rest of the boys are saving my place in the room, Three of us from our room of eight in hospital.
[Underlined] MARCH 22. [/underlined] Left Hospital.
[Underlined] MARCH 29. [/underlined] First Bandshow. Played with Tango Section and swing section
[Underlined] MARCH [/underlined] 24 Big escape from North Camp. 81 escaped.
[Underlined] APRIL 10TH [/underlined] Germans announced that 50% of the officers who escaped had been shot. Intense indignation in camp. Germans sent to Coventry.
[Underlined] APRIL 13TH [/underlined] Memorial service for officers who were shot. Great excitement immediately following service when British tommies were seen to be patrolling the wire and manning sentry boxes. Union Jack flying in Vorlager. Turned out to be film show. Lots of fun messing up one of the scenes at main gate.
[Underlined] APRIL [/underlined] Received first mail from home.
[Underlined] [Deleted] MAY [/deleted] JUNE 4TH [/underlined] Leon and [indecipherable word] left the mess and Frank and Ken arrived.
[Underlined] JUNE 6TH [/underlined] Allied invasion of North France.
[Underlined] JUNE 7TH [/underlined] Room numbers went up to 10 with arrival of Ham and Chuck in new purge.
[Underlined] JUNE 30TH [/underlined] Room number up to 12 with arrival of Peter and Henry
News that Montgomery forecasts end of war in autumn and Churchill promises, lights in London for Christmas.
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[Underlined] JULY 20TH [/underlined] Attempted assassination of Hitler. Germans withheld news from Camp until 22ND. All Germans adopted “Heil Hitler” salute in place of military salute.
[Underlined] AUGUST 12TH [/underlined] First film in camp. “[indecipherable words]” – a third rate film. Heat terrific, though wearing only shorts.
New purge arrived in evening including Jock Reid V.C.
[Underlined] AUGUST 13TH [/underlined] Goon guard shot at one of boys who accidentally touched warning wire while walking round circuit. Bullet passed through his hand.
[Underlined] AUGUST 15TH [/underlined] New allied landings in South of France between TOULON and CANNES.
[Underlined] AUGUST 17TH [/underlined] Weighed on kitchen scales. Weight 11st 10lbs.
[Underlined] AUGUST 21ST [/underlined] New purge arrived and Jack Meek came into room to replace Peter Pearson who moved to Room 7.
[Underlined] AUGUST 24TH [/underlined] Weighed on kitchen scales. Weight 11st 8lbs.
[Underlined] AUGUST 30TH [/underlined] Saw Comedy thriller “The Man at the Door”. Very good acting.
[Underlined] AUGUST 31ST [/underlined] Weighed on kitchen scales. Weight 11st 7lbs.
[Underlined] SEPTEMBER 2ND [/underlined] Frank and I commenced messing on our own.
[Underlined] SEPTEMBER 11TH [/underlined] Owing to difficulties in supplying Red Cross parcels from Geneva, existing stock being issued at 1/2 parcel per man per week, instead of whole parcel.
Sports field closed from today. Extension to camp being built on it. Walks outside camp starting today. 30 men at 8 AM, 30 at 10.15, 30 at 2.15. Length of walk approx. 1 1/2 hours.
[Underlined] SEPTEMBER 12TH [/underlined] Chaps on one of todays [sic] walks raided orchard. Terrific “stink” kicked up by Goon farmer.
[Underlined] SEPTEMBER 13TH [/underlined] Another walk incident!! Note found addressed to Group Captain after afternoon walk had left saying that one of chaps intended to commit suicide, while on the walk. Goons chased after the walk on bicycles and recalled them before threatened suicide took place. Culprit taken to hospital.
[Underlined] OCTOBER 5TH [/underlined] “French Without Tears” at camp theatre in evening. Very good.
[Underlined] OCTOBER 18TH [/underlined] Received first personal parcel together with Steve & Pat. Lots of Chocolate. Couldn’t be better.
[Underlined] OCTOBER 27TH [/underlined] Birthday. Had a two tier cake. Saved 1lb chocolate
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from personal parcel to make icing. “Wizard” bash!
[Underlined] OCTOBER 29. [/underlined] New purge – general opinion that war will last till spring.
[Underlined] OCTOBER 31 [/underlined] “The Astonished Ostrich” at theatre in evening. – very good.
Jack Normandale astonished camp with his impersonation of a woman.
Extension to compound opened today.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 4 [/underlined] First meeting of “The Music Society of Lower Silesia”. First performance of “Stringing Along”.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 5 [/underlined] Received second personal parcel. Lots more chocolate. Big bash.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 12. [/underlined] Second meeting of “Music Society”. No fires in theatre. Could hardly play for the cold.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 17 [/underlined] Goons ordered that all food held in store by people in the camp must be eaten by 20TH otherwise it will be confiscated. Terrific meals with lovely “brews”
“George and Margaret” at theatre in evening – excellent.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 18 [/underlined] Largest new purge in camp to date, mostly Americans, the first in Belaria. 72 Americans; 22 R.A.F. “Ham” went to new extension. Gordon arrived.
[Underlined] NOVEMBER 22. [/underlined] New purge – mostly American. Steve left room to work in hospital. Bill arrived.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 1 [/underlined] “Mr Corn comes to Town” – Canadian revue in theatre, good.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 7. [/underlined] Second film show in camp. Marlene Dietrich and Randolph Scott in “The Spoilers”.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 14. [/underlined] Frank’s wedding anniversary. He made a super cake consisting of a layer of cake, a layer of raisins, another layer of cake, layer of chocolate, layer of cake and chocolate and raisins on the top. A “Wizard” effort.
4 [indecipherable word deleted] three tier bunks in room to replace six two tiers.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 19 [/underlined] A new Christmas hamper of food from Vorlager. This hamper was food which we were allowed to store from the ‘bash’ of NOV 17. Made the Christmas Cake.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 20 [/underlined] Made one dozen Angel Cakes and one dozen mince pies.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 21 [/underlined] Made large tart to be filled later with chocolate.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 22. [/underlined] Iced the Christmas Cake.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 25. [/underlined] Breakfast before Appell. Porridge, bacon and sausages. Christmas Cake with tea. No-one ate their full portion. Much too large. Dinner at 7.30. Soup, Turkey, potatoes (roast and creamed) carrots, peas
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Christmas pudding with thick Klim sauce. The Christmas parcels (American were issued on the 23RD and contents will be found on page 80) “Fanfare” the Christmas show should have opened at 9.30. but owing to a misunderstanding we were locked in the barracks at the normal time (10.00) and so the show was postponed until tomorrow evening.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 26 [/underlined] Opening night of “Fanfare” 2 1/2 hour show.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 28 [/underlined] New Year’s Eve is to be a special night for the show with the start at 9.30 and finishing with the entry of the New Year. Three invitation seats given to each member of the band. Group Captain and Senior Officers decided that these should be withdrawn in favour of a list drawn up by them and so band say that if this happens, the show will go on at the normal time (7.00PM).
[Underlined] DECEMBER 30 [/underlined] Theatre now cleared up. Everyone will go and the band win their point.
[Underlined] DECEMBER 31 [/underlined] Fanfare at 9.30 carried on until 12.00. Not locked in barracks until 2.00 AM. Lots of fun and games, as far as possible.
[Underlined] 1945[/underlined]
[Underlined] JANUARY 1ST [/underlined] Last night of ‘Fanfare’.
[Underlined] JANUARY 17 [/underlined] “Tony draws a Horse” in theatre. Very Good.
[Underlined] JANUARY 20 [/underlined] Terrific surge in optimism in camp. New Russian offensive brings them today within 100 miles of Sagan. Lorries containing civilian refugees and luggage beginning to pass camp.
[Underlined] JANUARY 23 [/underlined] Refugees passing camp all day long. mostly [sic] in horse drawn carts.
Red Cross parcel issue back to one full parcel per man per week. Future supply of Goon rations-doubtful. Preparation for march in full swing in case we are moved out. Kit bags being converted to haversacks and packs. Special cake made from barley. Klim cocoa and sugar.
[Underlined] JANUARY 25 [/underlined] Nearest point of Russian advance now only 50 miles from us. Gunfire heard at frequent intervals during the day. Refugees still pouring along the road.
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[Underlined] JANUARY 26. [/underlined] 20 R.A.F. N.C.O.s arrived at 11 P.M. from camp on the Polish Czech frontier. They were among 1500 evacuated from there 8 days ago - had been on road since. Tonight’s [deleted] sick [/deleted] arrivals were sick who did last two days of trip to Belaria by rail. Rest of party still on road somewhere living on infrequent Goon rations and finding rough going through snow and ice.
[Underlined] JANUARY 27 [/underlined] At 9 P.M. given 1/2 hour’s notice to move. Packed all kit, available food (very little) change of clothing, shaving kit. 3 blankets. Paraded about 10 P.M. hung around in snow for nearly an hour then sent back to barracks. Big industrial effort on sleigh making. Surplus cigarettes burnt, gramophone records broken so that the Germans couldn’t use them.
[Underlined] JANUARY 28 [/underlined Paraded again at about 5.30 – snowing – finally moved out of camp at about 7 AM. – about 1100 of us. 80 sick left behind. One Red Cross parcel per man issued on leaving camp.
Passed through SAGAN where many civilian refugees on roads. Passed EAST and NORTH compounds which had been evacuated around 4AM. Marched [number missing] KMS and reached village of SORAV late in afternoon, where we were billeted in barn to sleep. Boots soaking wet from days [sic] march in snow – froze overnight. Learnt that total destination is 70 KMS.
[Underlined] JANUARY 29 [/underlined] Started marching again at 8AM. About mid-day Frank and I fell in with Jack and George who were dragging a sleigh. They wanted someone to share in the pulling so we were only too glad of the chance and put our kit on the sleigh. Going very much easier. Marched [number missing] KMS reaching village of [name missing] where we bedded down for the night in barns.
[Underlined] JANUARY 30 [/underlined] No marching today. Spent day repairing sleigh, cooking, bartering cigarettes for bread and resting. Reported sick. Blisters on feet and one chilblain. Rumour that we are entraining at SPREMBERG. Goons issued 1/2 cups of boiled barley per man in the morning.
[Underlined] JANUARY 31 [/underlined] On the road again. Pretty rough going over hills. Few minor calamities with sleigh. Covered [number missing] KMS. Arriving at MUSKAV in evening. In barns again. Had first wash since leaving BELARIA.
[Underlined] FEBRUARY 1ST [/underlined] No march today. Heavy thaw during night continued during day. Ground unfit for sleigh pulling tomorrow. Goons issued 1/2 cup of barley per man and 1/5 of a loaf per man.
[Underlined] FEBRUARY 2 [/underlined] Set out today on what is promised as last lap of journey to train. Americans taken separately to a different destination. Sleigh abandoned and kit carried on back. Goons provided a horse and wagon to carry Red ross parcels which were issued at BELARIA. Weather fine for walking. Walked [number missing] KMS. Spent night just outside SPREMBERG in barns. Goons issued 1/7 of a loaf per man.
[Underlined] FEBRUARY 3 [/underlined] Marched to Panzer training school barracks at SPREMBERG where we were given first respectable meal of march, a bowl of pig swill, refreshing if not appetizing. Joined by about 400 of the chaps from EAST COMPOUND. Left in
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afternoon for station. Entrained in cattle trucks, 45 men to a truck. Goons issued 1/5 of a loaf per man.
[Underlined] FEBRUARY 4 [/underlined] Train left SPREMBERG late last night and arrived at LUCKENWALDE about 6PM today. Most uncomfortable journey ever. Not enough room to stretch legs so spent the night in cramped position. Train stopped frequently during day often for 1/2 hour to 1 hour. During these stops scrounged hot water from engine driver for brews.
Marched from station to camp (5KMS) arriving about 7 P.M. waited outside in rain for 1/2 hour and finally taken in. Promised a hot meal which did not materialise. Goons insisted that all 1400 of us should have a hot “de-lousing” shower and a search before passing into compound. Air-raid delayed the proceedings somewhat, but managed along with Frank to be in first batch for showers. Following search was very slipshod. Finally got to bed at 3AM. the most uncomfortable I have ever been in. Bed-boards, a palliase and very, very little straw.
[Underlined] REVIEW OF THE MARCH [/underlined]
It was good to get away from barbed wire for a few days. Unfortunately my shoes were a little tight on the first day and I had a couple of blisters and a chilblain at the end of the day’s tack. I wore flying boots for the rest of the journey until the last day when it was dry and I managed to get my shoes on again. Sleeping in the barns was rather comfortable, and after a day on the march very welcome. The weight of kit to be carried, conditions underfoot, insufficient food and the low physical reserves of strength after 5 months on half parcels, were the main snags. The Doc’s main worries were, Chilblains, blisters, rheumatism and stomach troubles, the latter particularly after the 24 hours in the cattle truck. Frank and I usually ate 2 slices of bread for breakfast, 2 slices during the day and two in the evening. The evening slices were the big meal of the day, being spread with corned beef or pilchards whereas the others had cheese or jam. Luckily we managed to barter bread for cigarettes en route so that the bread lasted out. We usually managed two hot brews during the day. German civilians usually good-hearted enough to bring out buckets of water for us as we passed. On the whole we had our fair share of “hardships” and it left us in no condition to stand up to a further march particularly as we have no decent food to build up our strength again. There are no Red Cross parcels and we live entirely on German rations which consist of 1/5 of a loaf, 1 cup of soup, either margarine or spread enough for about 8 slices of bread – per day. Sugar is issued at infrequent intervals and we have hot mint tea twice per day. The bread ration works out at 5 slices per man.
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We also receive about 4 medium sized potatoes, boiled in their skins. So that our menu for the day is:- Breakfast. – 1 1/2 slices bread & marg. Cup of mint tea.
Lunch – 4 potatoes, and 1 cup of soup.
Tea - 1 1/2 slices bread & marg Cup of mint tea
Supper – 2 slices bread & marg
The chief pastime is to talk of food we will eat when we get home.
Every day is so alike that no-one ever knows what day it is without thinking hard first. Almost everyone in the camp has a cold and rheumatism [sic] coughs, colds etc., are common – a reaction from the march.
[Underlined] FEBRUARY 23 [/underlined] Big day today. Norwegians who are in a separate compound here made us a gift several days ago of 250 of their Red Cross parcels. After lots of discussion as to whether they should go to the N.C.O.s over the wire (who are supposed to be in a bad way but who can still exchange food for cigarettes over the wire) the parcels were finally issued to us today. We had 1/5 of a parcel per man, not much, but it helps out quite a bit. They contained Cheese, biscuits, sausage, honey, sugar, oats and butter.
[Underlined] MARCH 1ST [/underlined] Came in like proverbial lion with terrific wind and rumour of parcels
[Underlined] MARCH 2ND [/underlined] Wind up to gale force. Rumours of parcels all day long, ranging from 1/3 of a parcel to commence in 2 days time, to 1 whole parcel to commence next Monday. S.B.O. [Senior British Officer] had block commander’s meeting in evening and dispelled all rumours by saying that nothing of parcels was known at all.
[Underlined] MARCH 4 [/underlined] Frank’s birthday. Saved up a little bread so that for the evening meal we could have 4 bread & potato pancakes, and four slices of bread with Patè & marg spread.
Snowed heavily all morning and most of afternoon.
Have had sirens each of past 12 nights, regularly between 8 & 9 P.M. Sometimes after lights out too. Air raids every day, sometimes twice a day. Can see the evening raids, besides feeling the concussion and blast of bombs.
[Underlined] MARCH 6 [/underlined] Told that we were having an issue of 1/2 an American Red Cross parcel each, tomorrow.
[Underlined] MARCH 7 [/underlined Americans told on parade that there are 25 truck loads of parcels at the station addressed to them. Later in morning 1/2 parcel issue cancelled as they were just on loan from the French. Goons promised that 900 parcels would be delivered today so arrangements made for Americans to be issued first then the rest to us the issue being 1 full parcel per man. The Goons failed to fulfil their contract however, and only brought in 500 so that only the Americans got parcels. However we hope to get ours tomorrow.
[Underlined] MARCH 8 [/underlined] A Great Day. We received a full American parcel each in the afternoon. Terrific “bashes” all over. Frank & I had two slices of bread spread with jam & cheese for tea. For supper we cut the bread a little thinner so that we got seven slices. The supper menu was:- 1/2 the potato ration mashed & fried, and a whole tin of spam (between us,) then the bread spread as follows 1, jam: 2 Cheese 3. Cheese & jam, 4 Cheese & Rose Mill Patè; 5 Coffee cream (Klim, sugar, marg & coffee)
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then one biscuit spread thickly with chocolate cream (same as 5 with chocolate). So full that the biscuit had to be left until 1 hour later. So warm during night that I couldn’t sleep. (General complaint.) Lovely to feel absolutely full once again.
[Underlined] MARCH 9 [/underlined] Announced during morning that the next parcel issue is to be on Monday or Tuesday [underlined] if [/underlined] we get any co-operation from the Goons. Frank & I decided to go easy in case co-operation lacking, and make parcel last another week at least. Can always have another “bash” if we do get an early issue. The policy seems to be to get the food in as quickly as possible and build us all up again. Terrific rumours of more parcels arriving. No confirmation, but hoping. Norwegians have received some dried fish which they have shared with us. Being issued (cooked) on Monday or Tuesday.
[Underlined] MARCH 14 [/underlined] Second parcel issue. Should have been yesterday but Goons slipped up again. Photo check on Appell in morning. Kept us out there for 2 hours. Wizard trifle in evening. Filled me, completely
[Underlined] MARCH 15 [/underlined] Goons say that if we stop trading over wire we can have parcels every fifth day. American bombers over camp today on way to some target east of Berlin. Lovely sight.
[Underlined] MARCH 17 [/underlined] Another parcel issue. Frank & I are really having some good meals now. A firm favourite is the Whipped Cream Sundae for which we had to do some trading to get extra KLIM.
[Underlined] MARCH 19 [/underlined] Parcels spirits damped. Told that there are only 2 1/2 parcels each left in store and so issue now will be every 10 days.
[Underlined] MARCH 26 [/underlined] Another parcel issue today.
[Underlined] MARCH 28 [/underlined] G/C MACDONALD; W/C PARCELLE; S/L WILLIAMS and GEORGE from the cookhouse left for NUREMBERG to be repatriated to ENGLAND. This is an expression of gratitude from the Germans for our good behaviour on the march from Sagan.
[Underlined] MARCH 31 [/underlined] Parcel issue today instead of Monday owing to the fact that Monday is a holiday for the Germans. Frank and I have been saving a little food during the week so that we can have a “big bash” tomorrow (Easter Sunday) Spent today preparing. Iced three cakes and made a big whipped cream sundae each.
[Underlined] APRIL 1 [/underlined] EASTER SUNDAY. Frank & I had our “big bash”. For breakfast we had each:- 2 slices fried bread. 1/2 tin sardines, 1 slice Spam, and a small potato & Rose Mill Patè cake. This was followed by a cupful of boiled barley. For lunch we had 1 cup of soup followed by coffee and a piece of cake. We entertained Reg to tea when we had coffee & cake. For dinner we had 1 1/2 day’s potato ration, 1/2 tin Spam, four slices of bread & spreads, and trifle. Frank also ate his last piece of cake but I could only eat a small slice. Left the rest until tomorrow. The trifle was made in a cut down Klim tin (about 1/2 size) and consisted of a layer of coffee cream, one of chocolate cream, layer of cake mixture made from biscuit, marg, sugar and chocolate; a layer of chocolate and raisins, a layer of whipped cream, and a thin layer
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of Pineapple cream. Returned to bed absolutely full.
Meeting of the “Geordies” during the afternoon to discuss our post-war dinner.
[Underlined] APRIL 9th [/underlined] Rumours of move on Wednesday to a camp near MUNICH
[Underlined] APRIL 10 [/underlined] Rumour confirmed. We are to be ready by blackout tonight to move at five minutes notice.
[Underlined] APRIL 11 [/underlined] Still at Luckenwalde but a list of marching orders has been posted. Our barrack is to parade for identity and search at 9.30 AM tomorrow.
[Underlined] APRIL 12 [/underlined] Left barrack at 9.30 and went on to parade ground where we were identified and had German blankets taken from us. We were then marched to Vorlager to be searched, after which we marched to the station. Stayed in the station yard for quite a while before entraining so boys had the “smokies” going. Small incident when civvie chap wearing a swastika in his buttonhole found one of the boys with a “smokie” near some benzine barrels, and knocked him over and threw smokie on to the rails. He then tried to move us by yelling and shouting in typical German fashion but boys just ignored him. Soup and spuds came down from the camp at 12.30. Later in the afternoon we entrained 40 to a waggon. No signs of moving off. Frank bought two knives for four cigarettes. Issued with 1/2 parcel each.
[Underlined] APRIL 13 [/underlined] Still in the station. Moved a little later to a siding alongside a road. Trading started despite goon attempts to stop it. Spent a very enjoyable day. Weather exceptionally good. Attack by Thunderbolts on a target South of us. Luckily we have our wagon roofs painted over P.O.W. Told at night that owing to repeated protestations by the S.B.O. we were not to be moved after all. Returning to camp tomorrow. News of American advances put everyone in most optimistic mood. Expecting to be freed at any time.
[Underlined] APRIL 14 [/UNDERLINED] Returned to camp. Terrific raid on Potsdam at night. Lovely sight.
[Underlined] APRIL 15 [/underlined] Received 1/2 parcel to make up issue on train. Thunderbolts seen over camp.
[Underlined] APRIL 16 [/underlined] News still very good. Rumours that Russians have started an offensive confirmed. Opinion divided as to whether we shall be freed by Russians or Americans. Betting 6-5 on the Russians.
[Underlined] APRIL 17 [/underlined] Thunderbolts bombed target S.W. of camp. Judged to be 15-20 miles away
[Underlined] APRIL 18 [/underlined] Marauders over camp escorted by Mustangs. First glimpse of T.A.F.
[Underlined] APRIL 19 [/underlined] Rumour came in late at night that Russians had broken through just S.E. of us and that the Commandant intends moving the whole camp West tomorrow morning.
[Underlined] APRIL 20 [/underlined] Rumour of last night proved false. Forts over in in great force in morning bombing targets North, North West and due West of camp. Gunfire
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heard at night from North-East, East and South. S.B.O. addressed all barracks at 10.30 telling us that latest information received by him placed the Russians 20 miles N.E. and 15 miles East while in the South they had reached JUTEBORG. The last seemed very unlikely
[Underlined] APRIL 21 [/underlined] Morning spent very quietly, but just after soup the defence scheme came into operation. The goon guards all evacuated camp and chaps were running around all over the place. The defence scheme worked very smoothly and everything was soon under perfect control. At night there was lots of artillery fore and some small arms fire. Just after we got to bed a 190 came over and opened fire on the woods just by the camp. Shook us up a bit.
[Underlined] APRIL 22 [/underlined] Woke to find Russians entering camp. Rumours that Americans are near at hand. Lots of rumours as to how we shall be taken out of here. Information given out at night as to what the S.B.O. had been doing all day. Apparently the town is in charge of a Russian Major who has detailed a Captain to look after the camp. When asked about the electricity and water he said it would be seen to at once (They had both been off since yesterday). He said that there was plenty of labour in the town. He also said that they would take over a village and take all their cows etc. to supply meat for the camp. We are to share food equally with the Russian troops. So on the whole the situation is much rosier. We are not to move until the Americans arrive which should only be a matter of days, but oh! what long, long days.
[Underlined] APRIL 23 [/underlined] Meat, potatoes and bread coming into camp all day long. Informed that I should be on guard from 4 AM – 6 AM in the morning. Reported for briefing at 8 P.M. Complete farce, still no water or electricity. Drawing all our water from pool behind the camp. Camp shot up again.
[Underlined] APRIL 24 [/underlined] Wakened at 4 A.M to do my guard. Spent last part of guard finding German store. Managed to get a steel helmet – my first souvenir. Funeral for some Russian prisoners who died of starvation.
[Underlined] APRIL 27 [/underlined] Still waiting for the link-up. General Ruger has been to Marshal Koniyev’s headquarters and received the impression that we were definitely to remain here until the link-up takes place. The one topic of conversation is “when will the link-up be”. A Russian major [indecipherable word] visited the SBO two days ago accompanied by a beautiful girl interpreter, and a [deleted] y [/deleted] bodyguard armed with a tommy-gun. While the general was with the SBO. the guard posted himself outside
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the door on guard. The Russian girl later gave her impression of the camp. She said that the living quarters were disgraceful as accommodation and that under the conditions the British & American officers were remarkably smart and remarked on their cleanliness and bearing. She said that in previous camps which she had visited the prisoners had left the camp immediately the Russian forces arrived and billeted themselves in private houses inflicting a large amount of damage by looting and wilful plundering. None of these, happily, were British. Ours was the first British camp she had visited and she (and all the Russian officers) were amazed and pleasantly surprised to find the place under such perfect control. In all other camps they had had to install order and form an administrative staff whereas here all this was done when they arrived. In all they were most favourably impressed. It appears that the Germans in town have plenty of water but haven’t built up a sufficient head of pressure to supply the camp so the town major sent for the mayor of the town and told them that it would be very unfortunate if this was not done. The mayor appreciated the point and we expect more water almost immediately.
At 8 P.M. news came of the link-up and spirits went up accordingly. American officers have been seen in Luckenwalde and an American War Correspondent accompanied by an American girl passed through on his way to Berlin.
[Underlined] APRIL 28 [/underlined] Repatriation Committee arrived in camp late at night. Brought with them 50 lorries of food. The staff consisted of 15 officers, 20 Women, and 200 other ranks. The whole staff was Russian. They had no news of how or when we return home.
[Underlined] APRIL 29. [/underlined] Todays [sic] local news bulletin gave details of a meeting between the Russian officer in charge of the Repat. committee (Capt Medvedev
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and the Senior Allied Officer. The Captain has brought his own wireless station for direct contact with his Commanding General’s H.Q. at Marshal Koniyevs H.Q. He was surprised and gratified at our organisation and administration and hoped to arrange film shows, concerts, lectures and dances while we await repatriation. He was horrified by conditions in the camp which he considered depressing and very overcrowded. He intends inspecting the neighbourhood for better accommodation.
Following a battle to the E. of Luckenwalde last night 18,000 Germans surrendered.
An Englishwoman (Mrs Thomas of Blackheath) and her 2 Children have arrived in the camp after a 4 day journey from Berlin. It is reported that in spite of being under fire several times, and the fact that their feet are blistered, the spirits of John, aged 10, and Diane, age 7 are not affected.
A later local news bulletin gave details of a meeting between the S.A.O. [Senior American Officer] and General Famin [sic], who is Senior Russian officer in charge of repat of POWs in this area. He had no news of our return -but his own opinion was that it would be Westward, but there is no immediate prospect. He has decided to move everyone with the exception of the Poles and Italians to the Adolf Hitler lager, a German officers’ rest camp, 6 miles from here on the road to Juterborg. It is reported to be a show-place built on luxurious lines in a woodland setting and complete with sports stadium, baths, showers, swimming pool, cinema and excellent living quarters.
[Underlined] APRIL 30 [/underlined] Frank went walking today and he and Reg ran into a party of Germans armed to the teeth, hiding out in
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wood about 1/4 mile from the camp. They had commenced retreating from Guben a fortnight ago, had broken up into small parties and spent 5 days without food, sleeping during the day and moving West during the night hoping to reach the American lines so that they could surrender. They said they would be shot if they surrendered to the Russians. One of them was only 17 but had been in the army for 2 years. Luckily they weren’t hostile and after a while allowed Frank & Reg to leave.
Tonight’s local news bulletin reported that French, Yugoslav [sic] Italian, Belgian and other foreign workers were being directed off the roads into the Adolf Hitler lager. A guard of Americans is being sent to guard that part of the camp allotted to the British, American and Norwegian personnel.
Captain Medvedev had today been apprehensive of a German attack on the camp, but reported after a reconnaissance that though there were many Germans in the vicinity of the camp, an attack was not now likely.
Lots of mortar and machine gun fire around the camp after dark.
[Underlined] MAY 1ST [/underlined] Mortar and machine gun fire continued today. One shell landed in camp but did no harm. Luckenwalde has been declared a war zone. Russians are mopping up the many German troops who are trying to reach the Americans. The Russians have renamed the Adolf Hitler lager – the Joseph Stalin Camp now popularly known by the boys as Joes’ Palace or Joe’s Place. The possibility of an early move there are reduced by the local military situation and the flood of refugees moving into the place.
News from home today of a circular issued by Home Office on “V” day celebrations. Hopes of being home for this great day fall lower as each day passes.
News flash after lights out – Hitler is dead.
[Underlined] MAY 2. [/underlined] The S.A.O. has called off our move to Joe’s Place and
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withdrawn all the guards. The place is now apparently a shambles swarming all over the place with foreign workers who are looting and wantonly destroying valuable material [deleted] elf [/deleted] left by the Goons. Apparently they have destroyed all the films, and projectors. Typewriters have been smashed with crowbars and the whole thing is just wanton destruction. Forced to move from our intended quarters, they took beds and every moveable object with them. Things which had to be left, such as wash basins etc., were smashed. These parties are armed and there was little that our guard could do against them. One of the guard was fired on while riding a cycle.
B.B.C. announced tonight the cessation of hostilities in Italy where German forces have surrendered unconditionally
[Underlined] MAY 3 [/underlined] This morning’s news announces the capture of Berlin which surrendered to Russian forces at 3 P.M. yesterday. All the recent good news – the deaths of Hitler and Mussolini the capitulation of Italy, the surrender of Berlin – arouse but little enthusiasm here where our main thought is repatriation. Our attitude just now is “In spite of it all, in spite of our liberation, we are still behind barbed wire, and none the wiser as to when we shall be home. Take us home and we’ll start cheering.
Was on guard at night, bid [sic] two shifts one from 10PM -12 and the second 4 A.M.-6AM.
Two American war correspondents arrived in the camp. They say that they knew nothing of us here until some of our boys who left the camp turned up there. They are going back tomorrow and taking back Capt Beattie, another correspondent who has been with us since we got here. He is flying to Paris to see General Eisenhower and give him details of us here together with a nominal roll.
[Underlined] MAY 4 [/underlined] An eventful day. Two armoured cars and three Jeeps arrived at the camp. The Americans in them told us that their C.O. a colonel was making unofficial arrangements to have us taken out of here by lorry. Consequently we packed our things and made
[Underlined] Ctd Page 140 [/underlined]
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[Map showing German towns and cities and the border with Switzerland]
[Page break]
127
[Map showing towns and cities in Germany and the border with Holland with a scale]
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[Map of German towns and cities with Berlin in the centre showing ranges from Berlin.]
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[Map showing German towns and cities and a scale]
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[Underlined] The Question of Food [/underlined]
During the stay at Luckenwalde we lived entirely on German rations. These consisted of 6 slices of bread per day, 1 cup of soup and either margarine or some type of spread, enough for about four slices of bread [inserted] and four medium sized potatoes. [/inserted]
At this time the main topic of conversation was food and everywhere could be heard discussions on favourite foods. Frank and Reg and I discussed various dishes [deleted letters] and Frank and I decided that when he came to stay with me as he intends, when we get home, we will try some of these dishes. We decided to draw up a menu for one week and when he comes, to stick to this menu for the week as far as rationing permits. And so here we have the menu for food of which we dreamed:-
[Underlined] MONDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST. [/underlined]
[Underlined] PORRIDGE [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED LIVER: BACON: EGGS: TOMATOES: [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS: TEA OR COFFEE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER [/underlined]
[Underlined] COLD MEAT: FRIED POTATOES: PICKLES: BEETROOT: [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEWED APPLE AND SUET PUDDING WITH CUSTARD. [/underlined]
[Underlined] COFFEE [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] DOVER SOLE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] CAKES: SANDWICHES. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER[/underlined]
[Underlined] PIG’S TROTTERS: COCOA [/underlined]
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[Underlined] TUESDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] CORN FLAKES [/underlined]
[Underlined] HAM: EGGS: TOMATOES [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEAK AND KIDNEY PUDDING: CAULIFLOWER: CREAMED POTATOES. [/underlined]
[Underlined] JAM ROLY-POLY. [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] HOT MINCE TARTS: TOASTED MUFFINS: [deleted] C [/deleted] [/underlined]
[Underlined] CAKES AND BISCUITS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER[/underlined]
[Underlined] FISH AND CHIPS [/underlined]
[Underlined] WEDNESDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] PORRIDGE [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED KIDNEY: BACON: EGGS [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER. [/underlined]
[Underlined] LANCASHIRE HOT-POT [/underlined]
[Underlined] PANCAKES WITH JAM. [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS AND COFFEE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED SKATE [/underlined]
[Underlined] CAKES AND BISCUITS [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER. [/underlined]
[Underlined] WELSH RAREBIT. [/underlined]
[Underlined] THURSDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] CORN FLAKES [/underlined]
[Underlined] JAM OMLETTE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED STEAK AND ONIONS: CHIPS: [/underlined]
[Underlined] APPLE FRITTERS AND CUSTARD [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS AND COFFEE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED KIPPERS [/underlined]
[Underlined] SANDWICHES: CAKES: BISCUITS [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER [/underlined]
[Underlined] FISH AND CHIPS [/underlined]
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[Underlined] FRIDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] PORRIDGE [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEWED KIDNEYS AND FRIED BREAD [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER [/underlined]
[Underlined] COLD HAM: GREEN SALAD WITH BOILED EGGS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEAMED PUDDINGS AND CUSTARD [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRUIT SALAD AND CREAM [/underlined]
[Underlined] CAKES AND BISCUITS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER [/underlined]
[Underlined] FISH AND CHIPS [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS AND CHEESE [/underlined]
[Underlined] SATURDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] CORN FLAKES [/underlined]
[Underlined] HAM: FRIED LIVER: EGGS: TOMATOES [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEWED NECK OF MUTTON [/underlined]
[Underlined] CHOCOLATE AND RAISIN TART WITH CREAM [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED SOLE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SANDWICHES: CREAM CAKES: BISCUITS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER [/underlined]
[Underlined] FISH AND CHIPS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUNDAY [/underlined]
[Underlined] BREAKFAST [/underlined]
[Underlined] PORRIDGE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRIED KIDNEYS: HAM: EGGS: TOMATOES. [/underlined]
[Underlined] BISCUITS. [/underlined]
[Underlined] DINNER. [/underlined]
[Underlined] YORKSHIRE PUDDING: ROAST LAMB: ROAST POTATOES: VEG. IN. SEASON. [/underlined]
[Underlined] STEAMED FIG OR DATE PUDDING WITH BRANDY SAUCE. [/underlined]
[Underlined] TEA [/underlined]
[Underlined] HOME BAKED CAKES; SCONES AND BREAD. [/underlined]
[Underlined] FRESH CREAM CAKES: JAM AND SPREADS [/underlined]
[Underlined] SUPPER. [/underlined]
[Underlined] COLD MEAT SANDWICHES [/underlined]
N.B. Try to work in:- baked herrings, Millionaire pie
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[Underlined] The Question of Food (Ctd) [/underlined]
Whilst these discussions were taking places [sic] many new dishes were heard of and a list of these with a description as close as possible is prepared below.
Bacon or Ham, fried with honey or syrup.
The syrup is spread on the ham, thinly, before frying.
Tomato delicacies. Cut the top [deleted] atoes in two [/deleted] and scoop out the inside. Mix the inside with either, cheese, chopped meat or anything similar Heat and fill up the [deleted] halves of [/deleted] tomato.
[Underlined] Ice Cream Cake [/underlined] Take a piece of fruit cake and cover with ice cream. Freeze as hard as possible in refrigerator. Prepare meringue mixture and cover the cake. Place in very hot oven for 1 1/2 minutes.
[Underlined] Ice Cream Fritters [/underlined] Dip a piece of ice cream into pancake mixture and drop into boiling fat for 1 1/2 mins.
Boil an egg and cut off the top. Scoop out the yolk and mix with butter and milk, and place back in the egg.
[Underlined] Buck Rarebit. [/underlined] Welsh rarebit on toast with egg broken over grilled. Bacon may also be added.
[Underlined] Coffee Cream Money [/underlined] Cream 2oz butter & 2 Tablespoons of sugar in a warm bowl. Add 1 beaten egg, 4 tablespoons of milk, 3 tablespoons of coffee essence, with [sic] cake or crushed biscuit enough to thicken mixture. Beat fiercely in warm place till quite smooth and pour into mould.
[Underlined] Sham Virginia Ham [/underlined] Mix 1/2 lb finely minced ham or spam, with 1/4 lb of flour and enough milk to make a stiff dough. Shape into flat cakes, dip in brown sugar and fry or bake in butter. Serve with fried egg on top and baked beans.
[Underlined] Porridge Fried [/underlined] Fry thick cold porridge in hot butter. Serve with jam, honey or sugar, surrounded by fruit (banana slices or fritters etc) Cover with cream.
[Underlined] Butter Scotch Pie [/underlined] Bring to a boil a mixture of 2 cup of milk, 1 cup brown sugar, 4 tablespoons butter, 1/2 tablespoon vanilla, pinch of salt. Beat 3 eggs in 9 tablespoons of milk and mix into a paste with 3 1/2 tablespoons of flour. Mix butter and egg mixtures together beating to evenness. Stir till thick. Pour into pastry pie.
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[Underlined] Blueberry Fritters [/underlined] (with lamb) Take 3 tablespoons of sugar, 1 cup of flour, 1 1/2 tablespoons of baking powder, 1/3 teaspoon of salt. Add 1 egg beaten with 1/3 cup of milk and stir till smooth. Add 1 cup of blueberries. Drop from spoon into baking pan of boiling fat. Drain on paper and dust with fine sugar before serving with meat.
[Underlined] Kidney Omelette [/underlined] Chop kidneys very fine. Put 1/2 into saucepan and crush. Add water to cover and simmer for 1/2 hour. Fry remainder of kidney for 5 mins with finely chopped onion and butter. Add to saucepan, with 1 teaspoon of sherry or teaspoon of ginger powder. Stir and leave to simmer. Make ordinary omelette and fold in kidney and gravy. If necessary, use flour to thicken gravy.
[Underlined] Blueberry Muffins [/underlined] Sift 2 cups of flour, 3 tablespoons of sugar, 1/2 teaspoon salt and 4 teaspoons of baking powder. Add to this slowly, 1 cup of milk beaten with one egg, and 2 tablespoons of melted butter. Add 1 cup of ripe blueberries and bake in greased pan in oven.
[Underlined] Champagne Cider [/underlined] Add 1/5 pint of brandy to 1/2 gall cider and 1/5 cup honey. Let it stand for 2 weeks. After bottling let It stand 1 night before serving.
[Underlined] Blackberry Brandy. [/underlined] 1/2 pt blackberry juice boiled to half with 3/4 lb of sugar. Add to 1 qrt of brandy, 1 tsp of glycerine and 1 tsp of gum arabic.
[Underlined] Egg soup [/underlined] Beat 2 eggs in basin. Boil 1 pint of stock and add 1 tablespoon lard or oil, 1 tablespoon of soya bean sauce. Pour over beaten egg and stir gently till egg is cooked.
[Underlined] Golden Drop [/underlined] Take 1 thick slice of bread and scoop a tablespoonful out of centre. Fry side with hollow. Then turn and break an egg into the hollow and fry.
[Underlined] Stuffed Potato [/underlined] Bake a large potato. Cut off one end and scoop out [missing words]. Mix with cheese, chopped ham, or meat and place back into [missing words] oven to heat. Serve with what is left of potato after [missing words]
[Missing words] pastry mixture as for Cornish Pastie. [Missing words] ocolate in centre of a round of pastry [missing words]
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[Underlined] Pineapple Float [/underlined] Line Pie dish with thick pastry. (puff) Bake, and pour in thick chocolate. Place full slices of pineapple on top and allow to set. Serve cold with thick cream.
[Underlined] Single Sue [/underlined] Place layer of broken sponge cake about 1” thick in greased pie dish. Cover with thick sweet creamed rice. Another layer of sponge cake covered with boiled figs and dates. More sponge cake and thick layer of jam. Cover with sponge cake and bake in oven till brown. Serve with sweet chocolate sauce.
[Underlined] John Tommy Nelson Cake. [/underlined] Line pie dish with puff pastry and bake. Cover with thick layer of black treacle mixed with bread crumbs. Cook for 10 mins. Cover with layer of chopped dates & raisins & nuts. Cook for further 10 mins. Serve hot with cream.
[Underlined] Tolga Rice. (Date & meat [/underlined] mixture. Cook 2 lbs of rice in milk. Flavour with vanilla. Add 1 lb chopped dates, pieces of chopped mutton, 2 chopped red peppers, 1/4 lb ginger. Mix in mutton gravy mixed with 1/4 lb of honey.
[Underlined] Oyster Omelette [/underlined] Take 1 doz eggs, 1 doz oysters, 1 cup diced ham, 1/2 cup diced onions, 1 cup toast breadcrumbs, chopped parsley salt & pepper. Fry oysters etc first, then place in egg mixture & fry as omelette
[Underlined] Flesh Pancake. Dip [/underlined] ham into very thick pancake mixture & fry.
[Underlined] Millionaire Pie [/underlined] Take 3 unopened tins Nestles milk, place in saucepan & boil for 1/2 hour. Open tins & mix milk with 3 beaten yolks of eggs. Pour mixture into pie shell. Beat whites of eggs, add sugar and apply over top to form meringue mixture. Bake in oven till brown.
[Underlined] Tommy Tiddlers [/underlined] Prepare as pastry a pancake batter. Take previously fried sausages, cover with pastry & fry in deep fat. Serve with creamed potatoes & fried onions.
[Underlined] Manchester Pie [/underlined] Line pie dish with
[Bottom part missing as with previous (torn) page]
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[Underlined] Baked or Steamed Apple & Chocolate Roll [/underlined] Prepare pastry, Roll out and cover with chocolate. Roll up. Roll out second piece and cover with chopped sweetened apples. Place chocolate roll on top and roll up together. Steam for 2 hours or bake in hot oven for 45 minutes. Serve hot with custard. [Indecipherable word] be made with jam & other fruit.
[Underlined] Crepe Suzette [/underlined] Make pancakes in ordinary way. Spread with jam and roll. Place in oven for 5 mins. Serve hot with cream.
[Underlined] Cheese & Potato Pie [/underlined] Cook potatoes & cream with milk & butter and large amount of grated cheese. Place layer on bottom of greased pie dish . Layer of sliced tomatoes, potatoes: cover with strips of bacon. Place in hot oven till bacon is crisp. Serve hot.
[Underlined] Chocolate Soufflé [/underlined] Take whites & yolks of 12 eggs; beat with chocolate and heavy cream, to whipped cream consistency. Add icing sugar and place in deep dish. Bake for 5 mins in very hot oven. Serve at once
[Underlined] Marrons Glacé [/underlined] Boil Chestnuts (in jackets) for 5-10 minutes. Shell & skin. Use double amount of sugar. Pour over chestnuts. 1/4 lb of butter, 2 pts milk. Place in pan and boil until whole thing is syrup. Remove and let dry on cooking board.
[Page break]
140 Ctd from 125
[Deleted] Ctd from 125 [/deleted]
ready for the move. Details were given later. There are 75 lorries coming tomorrow and they are to make 2 trips taking 25 each truck. 30 of these lorries have been allocated to the British- 15 to the N.C.O.s, 10 to the Army and 5 to the officers. We are to take 10 Norwegians and 15 British in each of our trucks. The list of order of going will be prepared according to length od P.O.W. service etc.
News received of German Army’s capitulation in Holland and Denmark.
[Underlined] MAY 5 [/underlined] Main convoy did not arrive, but a convoy of ambulances came and took away all the American and a few of the British sick. An American Captain arrived too and said that the main convoy would be here tomorrow.
Received an issue of 1 Canadian parcel to a mess of 20 and a few American “K” rations. Constituted enough for one meal per man.
[Underlined] MAY 6 [/underlined] 22 of the trucks arrived during the day, but the Russians refused to allowed [sic] anyone to leave. When some of the Americans began to load up, the Russians fired over their heads to prevent them going. The situation is beginning to look serious. We are all pretty well browned off. After all, here we are, two weeks after liberation and still kicking our heels around here. Our Red Cross food is all out and the Russian rations are none too reliable. We are hoping that something is done very quickly.
[Underlined] MAY 7 [/underlined] 100 lorries arrived in Luckenwalde today. The Russians still refused to allow us to go. Amid all the confusion of rumours etc., came the news that the war was over. No-one was the least bit excited in fact I should say that the chaps in this camp were about the most miserable in Europe today.
The SBO sent a letter to the Russian o/c and later left in a jeep for Sagan (H.Q. of Marshal Koniyev) a copy of which can be found on Page 106. Reg King managed to get away on a lorry which left this evening.
[Underlined] MAY 8 V.E. DAY [/underlined] The day for which we have waited so very long, and a day full of events for us here. The lorries which came to take us out of here have returned to the American lines empty. Several attempts were made to jump the lorries and indeed some chaps succeeded, only to be ordered off further down the road. Some lorries left early this morning
[Page break]
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taking a lot of the boys with them. We were informed by the Russians that anyone found outside the boundaries of the camp in future will be treated as civilians and will be interned. It appears that the Americans definitely had no official order to evacuate us and were using their own initiative. And so we now have to wait until the Russians are ready to evacuate us in their own way. A Russian colonel had a series of conferences with the SBO and returned to his H.Q. late at night to report that we were all ready for evacuation, and so once again we settled down to wait.
All day long we heard over the wireless reports of the celebrations in England and these succeeded in making us even more miserable than before. We think that we could easily have been home for these celebrations. It only means that our celebrations are postponed however, because we shall have ours upon our return.
I had my first swim of “Konegiedom” when I swam in the lake just by the camp.
[Underlined] MAY 9 [/underlined] The SBO held a parade this morning to thank us for behaving so well. A convoy of Russian lorries arrived at the camp and while no one knows the exact reason for their arrival, it is hoped that they are here to take is away immediately the official permission comes through.
A message was broadcast before the news from England this morning to Stalag Luft I at Barth telling them that they must remain where they are, so apparently they are in the same position as we are. They have my sympathies.
[Underlined] MAY 12 [/underlined] French refugees moved from Vorlager to Joseph Stalin Camp. We are to move into Vorlager tomorrow.
[Underlined] MAY 13 [/underlined] Moved into Vorlager. The huts were in a filthy condition and we had lots of cleaning out to do before actually moving in. There were no beds in our hut and the Frenchmen had been sleeping on straw. The straw was flea-ridden so we took it all out and burnt it. We managed to find enough two tier beds for our room but had to examine them very carefully as most of the beds were swarming with bed-bugs. The beds we have however, were clean enough.
[Underlined] MAY 15 [/underlined] B.B.C. news said that there were still over a million prisoners still in Germany most of whom were in Russian occupied territory, so now we begin to see why we are so long in being repatriated.
[Underlined] MAY 18 [/underlined] Reg Ryden came to see me today about forming a band. We [indecipherable word]
C.T.D. PAGE 150
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144
Joe Brown
23 Houndslow [sic] Av.
Houndslow [sic]
[Underlined] Middlesex [/underlined]
M Reid
12, Greenwell Place.
Govan.
[Underlined] Glasgow. [/underlined]
[Page break]
145
W.A. McILROY.
“FINNIS”
DROMARA.
Co DOWN.
N. IRELAND.
TEL. DRO: 101.
John C. Bridger
1, Broadway
Tynemouth.
Tel. N. Shields 74.
Robert C Forrester,
33 Cairnie Loan
Arbroath,
Angus,
Scotland.
L. Whitely
10, Ladysmith St,
Shaw Heath,
Stockport
Cheshire
REX K BENNETT,
82 GRACEFIELD GDNS
STREATHAM
LONDON
SW16
STR 1809.
Joseph LA FORTe
721 UNION ST
BKLYN, N.Y.
F.G. SMITH,
30, Yeovil Close
ORPINGTON, Kent.
The HATTON PRESS, Ltd,
72-8. Fleet St. London, E.C.4.
Advertising. Books. Optical Products.
WESTON CRAIG
8, LOUDON ST.,
HARTON COLLIERY,
SOUTH SHIELDS.
DOUGLAS HARRISON,
8 ST. GEORGE’S CRES.
MONKSEATON.
[Page break]
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[Signatures]
[Page break]
147
[Signatures]
148
F/O E A WRAKE,
3, Drive Mansions,
Fulham Road,
London, S.W. 6.
[Indecipherable name] F/L
Windsor
Ontario
Canada
[Indecipherable word] Pincher Creek
F/O H.R. Mossop D.F.C.
Elloe Lodge
Holbeach
Lincolnshire
H.K. Hamilton F/L J9934
Apt. 502, Claridge Apts,
1 Clarendon Ave,
Toronto, Ont.
Canada.
F/O A.P. Hennessy.
84 Church Street
Kensington
London W. 8.
F/O J Meek
83 Jamieson Ave
Toronto Ont
278 Washington Ave
Winnipeg Man.
P.V. Boyle.
Dinver
Portpatrick,
Stranraer,
Scotland.
F/Lt T D Hughes.
16 Clerkdale St
Walton
Liverpool 4
E. H. Stephenson
22, Clarendon Gardens,
Wembley
Middlesex
1st LT. G. E. Gallagher
2341 Kemper Lane
Cincinnati
OHIO
U.S.A.
A.K. Baker.
“Stocker’s House”,
Rickmansworth,
Herts.
P.& O. Coryton
The Rectory
Bonchurch
Isle of Wight
[Page break]
149
William W. Fannon
113 Boston St.
Guilford, Conn.
U.S.A.
TED. WOODE
8 HORSLEY TERR.
TYNEMOUTH,
NORTHUMB’D
Wm J. Murdock
709 – 2nd Ave.
LAUREL
MISS. USA.
GRADON GLEN-DAVISON
8. WINDSOR TERR
NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE. 2.
J.H. Moss
8, Munden Grove,
Watford,
[Underlined] Herts, England [/underlined]
W.J. NICHOLSON (Nicky)
23 WHITBY ST.
NORTH SHIELDS.
W. Reid
97 Swinton Crescent,
Baillieston
Glasgow
26.1.45. Scotland
Arthur E. Adams. “ZEKE”
49 Fullbrook Road
Walsall,
Staffs.
R.M. KING
C/O BIRCHFIELD
MIDDLE GREEN
LANGLEY
SLOUGH
BUCKS
Graham J. Macrae,
Windgarth,
Andover Road, North,
Winchester,
Hants
G.K. CHAPMAN
19, OSWIN TER.,
BALKWELL,
NORTH SHIELDS
NORTHUMBERLAND.
REGINALD E. RYDER,
97, BRADFORD ROAD WEST,
BATLEY, YORKS.
TRAIN TO LEEDS, GO OUT OF CENTRAL STATION & TAKE 1ST TURNING [indecipherable words] BUS TO BATLEY PARK GATE ( indecipherable words]
[Page break]
150
a few musicians and had a rehearsal. At the rehearsal we were asked to play for a [sic] RAF. dance the next night. So we will have to do a lot of work tomorrow to get everything on trim.
Rumours still fly around and every day brings fresh rumours of when we shall move, but we never seem any nearer moving.
The food situation is terrible. While we have plenty of bread, we have no margarine, sugar or brews. We have had little odd issues of spreads but these are [underlined] very [/underlined] small - a very little jam and cheese. The cheese is mostly in tubes but we have also had cheese powder which has to be mixed with water. The soup comes up regularly each lunch time, but on the whole the diet is very unappetising, just bread, cheese and water for every meal.
[Underlined] MAY 19 [/underlined] Just before our dance was due to start, the sirens sounded the recall signal and it was announced that the repatriation papers had been signed and that the Russians [underlined] hoped [/underlined] to start evacuating tomorrow. Naturally with such good news, the dance went with a terrific swing and was a great success in spite of the fact that there were only 35 women and about 300 men. It finished at 2 A.M. and by that time the boys were almost played out. Still, it was great fun to play at a dance again.
[Underlined] MAY 20 [/underlined] True to their word, the Russians rolled up with their trucks at 10 A.M. By 1.30 we were all aboard and ready to go. The journey to the ELBE was hampered by demolitions etc, but we arrived at the river at 6. PM. We dismounted and marched across a pontoon bridge to the other side where American lorries were waiting for us. These took us to a camp near HALLE where we arrived at about 11.30 American time (12.30 Russian time). [Deleted] We passed [indecipherable word] [/deleted] On the journey south we passed through several villages, all of which showed signs of having been the scene of fighting. Some were very badly damaged.
On arrival at the camp, we filled in a small form, were formed into groups of 25 and taken to billets. After a wash-up we went to the dining hall for a meal of Spaghetti and tomatoes and lovely [underlined] white [/underlined] bread and good strong, sweet coffee, after which we retired to bed about 2.30 A.M.
[Underlined] MAY 21 [/underlined] Wakened for breakfast at 6 A.M. Breakfast consisted of rice, and stewed fruit. The rice was lovely, rich, sweet, unbelievable. We also had white bread and a large portion of [indecipherable word] & butter. After our breakfast we came back to the barracks to sleep and await evacuation
[Page break]
151
We received an issue of 40 cigarettes; I oz bar of chocolate and a box of matches. In the afternoon we saw a “flick” ‘[indecipherable word] was a Lady’. In the evening we had to collect some Red Cross things. I had a handkerchief: a pipe, 2ozs tobacco; 1/4 lb chocolate, a packet of chewing gum, a tooth-brush and tooth paste. We then went to see another film. Laurel & Hardy in “Looking for Trouble”. For dinner at night we had pork chop, beans and spinach. Rice (creamed) and fruit. A lovely meal.
[Underlined] MAY 22 [/underlined] Went for breakfast at 6 A.M. After breakfast one of the boys and I walked round the airfield to look at the Goon a/c. All had been destroyed, the cockpit in each having been completely burnt out. Very interesting nevertheless. Came back to hear that we were on 3 hour readiness and liable to leave after lunch. Nothing happened however and in the evening we went to the films to see a skating & musical film.
[Underlined] MAY 23 [/underlined] [Deleted] I [/deleted] Still on stand-by. A few chaps got away today but the weather clamped down later and it stopped any more going.
U.S.O. show in afternoon. Very good. Film in evening, Charles Laughton in “Suspect”. Very good.
[Underlined] MAY 24 [/underlined] Weather still bad this morning. Frank and I had a walk around the airfield. Came back and went for [indecipherable word]. Film in the afternoon “Having a lovely time”. Pat O’Brien, Carole Landers. Not very good. Weather cleared up about 5 o’clock.
[Underlined] MAY 25 [/underlined] Raining heavily when we rose at 6 A.M. but cleared up about 10 A.M. Just as we went to lunch at 12 a lot of aircraft arrived and we were told in the dining hall that we should probably be leaving this afternoon. In the afternoon we were marched to the airfield where the planes were loading. We joined the queue and were second in line when the last of the aircraft took off. So one more great disappointment was added to our list. Each one seems to get worse. This time it was annoying because a lot of chaps who came in the night after us got away today. We are very cynical now and believe nothing we hear until something happens to confirm it.
[Underlined] MAY 26 [/underlined]
[Page break]
[Envelope with contents]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Diary
Artwork
Map
Photograph
Text. Poetry
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SRutherfordRL146342v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Title
A name given to the resource
Les Rutherford's prisoner of war diary
F/O R.L. RUTHERFORD. R.A.F. 146342 P.O.W. 3276
A WARTIME LOG
Description
An account of the resource
Prisoner of war diary of Les Rutherford, captured the 20 December 1943 and then detained at Stalag Luft 3 (Belaria). It consists mostly of sketches and cartoons but also information on camp life, photographs and German newspaper cuttings. The diary includes the crests of Sagan, Stalag Luft 3, Belaria camp; 50 Squadron. Cartoons of various events and characters. Drawings of Lancaster; Spitfire; Halifax; Wellington; Mustang I aircraft. Selection of poems by different authors about Bomber Command, Escape and Luckenwalde. Memorial to those shot after escaping from Stalag Luft 3, Sagan. Drawings of the camp and its accommodation. Details, photos and programmes of shows held at the prison camp. Details of the contents of the Red cross parcels from Great Britain, Canada, the United States and New Zealand, including German rations for one week. Menus for several meals including Christmas Day. Description of a typical day at Belaria and Luckenwalde. Extracts from POW’s letters. Day to day diary of life in the camps including the march from Sagan to Luckenwalde, passing through Sagan, Surau, Muskau and Spremberg thence by train to Luckenwalde. Maps showing the river Rhine and its tributaries and maps showing Berlin area and the rivers flowing around it and also shows the American and Russian fronts prior to liberation. Name and address of several fellow prisoners of War. Autograph pages of fellow prisoners. Pasted newspaper cuttings are about V-1, death notices, photos of British airborne troops that had landed behind German lines but been captured, two titles of German newspapers both dated 3 September 1944 but with no editorial or news content, a report of the best performances from 1944 Swedish Swimming Championship. There is a cartoon showing the Grim Reaper advancing on top of an American Tank with the word ‘Famine’ across his chest: while another cartoon shows a brutish USSR in the form of a gorilla destroying four men representing East European countries while Churchill and Roosevelt look on and comment on the beast’s playfulness. A clipping exhorts Germans not to gossip because it helps the Allied bombing attacks. The diary was kept at the Lincolnshire Archives until August 1987, when it was withdrawn by the owner.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Les Rutherford
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Alan Pinchbeck
Dianne Kinsella
Sally Des Forges
Jon-Paul Jones
Jan Morgan
Emily Jennings
Laura Morgan
Ashley Jacobs
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Poland
Germany--Luckenwalde
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
50 Squadron
arts and crafts
bombing
displaced person
entertainment
escaping
evading
Halifax
Lancaster
P-47
P-51
prisoner of war
propaganda
Red Cross
shot down
Spitfire
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/602/32104/BMannionFMannionFv10002.1.jpg
7bed124a5278bf88f5477a60b655125d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mannion, Frank
F Mannion
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mannion, F
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. Collection concerns Flight Sergeant Frank Mannion (1921 - 2016, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a rear gunner with 10 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war. Includes an oral history interview, some details of forced march as a prisoner, notes on some of his operations and a photograph.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Frank Mannion and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
ARRIVED AT POW CAMP LUCKENVALDE IIIA ON FEB 8TH
I ESCAPED FROM HERE WITH JOHN MALING EARLY MAY.
DETAILS OF MY OPERATIONS: -
9/10 JUNE 1944 DEFENDED SUCCESSFULLY AGAINST E/AIRCRAFT.
28/29 JUNE 1944 DEFENDED SUCCESSFULLY AGAINST 2 E/AIRCRAFT
1ST JULY 1944 FLAK DAMAGE STARBOARD WING.
20/21ST JULY 1944 HEAVY FLAK DAMAGE BETWEEN STARBOARD INNER AND OUTER ENGINES.
13TH SEPT 1944 STARBOARD WING DAMAGED GSE DAMAGED FORCED LANDING AT PERSHORE?
15TH SEPT 1944 DAMAGE TO FUSELARGE [sic]
23RD SEPT SHOT DOWN BY E/AIRCRAFT IN ‘SCHRAGE MUSIK’ BY HAUPMANN KAPITAN WILLIAM MODROW.
I AM CREDITED WITH HAVING DONE 37 OPERATIONS
MY POW No. 928
SHOT DOWN IN HALIFAX W-MZ574 23RD SEPT 1944
I THINK I AM THE ONLY R.A.F. AIR GUNNER TO FLY OUT ON HIS LAST OPERATION IN THE BOULTON PAUL REAR TURRET OF A HALIFAX BOMBER, AND FLY HOME IN THE FRAZER NASH TURRET OF A LANCASTER BOMBER.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
List of some of Frank Manion's operations
Description
An account of the resource
Notes arrived at POW Camp Luckenvalde IIIA February 8th. Escaped form there in May. Lists some of his operations and result of combat against enemy aircraft and damage by anti-aircraft fire. Includes forced landing at Pershore and eventually shot down in Halifax 'W-MZ574'. Credited with 37 operations.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
F Mannion
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One page handwritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BMannionFMannionFv10002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--Worcestershire
Germany--Luckenwalde
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-10
1944-06-28
1944-06-29
1944-07-01
1944-07-20
1944-07-21
1944-09-13
1944-09-15
1944-09-23
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Bloomfield
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
escaping
forced landing
Halifax
Lancaster
prisoner of war
RAF Pershore
shot down
Stalag 3A
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1181/30548/PWagnerHW1705.2.jpg
eb76515e53d2f6a703c9418e3a058f29
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wagner, Henry Wolfe
H W Wagner
Description
An account of the resource
15 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Henry Wolfe Wagner (1923 - 2020, 1604744 Royal Air Force), his memoirs, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 51 Squadron from RAF Snaith and became a prisoner of war. He was demobbed in 1946 and returned to education where he remained until his retirement.
The collection was catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wagner, HW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Luckenwalde
Description
An account of the resource
Two photographs, the first captioned 'Arrival of U.S.A. at Luckenwalde' shows large numbers of men surrounding a few U.S. soldiers. The second captioned 'Arrival of Russian soldiers at Luckenwalde', shows small group of soldiers one with an accordion and includes a woman in a headscarf. Luckenwalde was the last camp that Henry was held in as a prisoner of war.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-05
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two b/w photographs on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWagnerHW1705
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Luckenwalde
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-05
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
prisoner of war
Stalag 3A
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2283/41903/SCarterR1620578v10009-00020001.2.jpg
ff09209560014d833d1e9f3060ba71e8
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2283/41903/SCarterR1620578v10009-00020002.2.jpg
396f634b2018648e5f65253bab33e593
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carter, Ronald
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ronald Carter (1924 - 2014, 1620578 Royal Air Force) and contains his biography, research, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a rear gunner with 44 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susan Margaret Perrow and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-12-06
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Carter, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Luckenwalde - Stalag 3A South of Berlin
Description
An account of the resource
A description of the conditions at Stalag 3A.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Susan Carter
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Berlin
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two printed sheets
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SCarterR1620578v10009-00020001, SCarterR1620578v10009-00020002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
prisoner of war
Stalag 3A
the long march
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2198/40506/MAnkersonR[Ser -DoB]-180129-620003.jpg
56d9d0a8af66709f3de872ba47a8edb4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association
Description
An account of the resource
97 items. The collection concerns Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association and contains items including drawings by the artist Ley Kenyon.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Robert Ankerson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-29
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RAF ex POW As Collection
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Main Prisoner of War Camps in the Third Reich
Description
An account of the resource
A map of 41 POW camp locations. The key gives each camp's name and number.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Poland
Austria
Hungary
Yugoslavia
Slovakia
Czech Republic
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Map
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One printed sheet
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MAnkersonR[Ser#-DoB]-180129-620003
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
prisoner of war
Stalag 3A
Stalag 8B
Stalag Luft 1
Stalag Luft 3
Stalag Luft 4
Stalag Luft 6
Stalag Luft 7