1
25
135
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1379/23947/PFordTA17030001.2.jpg
645a03265505789aab711de36678d1f7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Ford, Terry. Aerial Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
15 target photographs from Terry Ford's operations with 75 Squadron.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Ford, T
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
A vertical aerial photograph of Le Havre during bombing operations. The land is mainly obscured by explosions but breakwaters and docks are visible. Digue Augustin Normand is shown at the top of the image, with Bassin de la Manche and Le Havre port to the bottom left of the photograph. Annotated '1589 MEP 5.9.44// 8” 12,000 [arrow] 162[degrees] 1943 LE HAVRE. D.11x1000, 4x500 C.29 SECS. F/O FORD. L.75'.
Creator
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75 Squadron
Date
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1944-09-05
Format
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One b/w photograph
Language
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eng
Type
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Photograph
Identifier
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PFordTA17030001
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
France--Le Havre
Conforms To
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Geolocated
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09-05
75 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
Lancaster
RAF Mepal
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1379/23948/PFordTA17030002.1.jpg
d2e4715e97110a682a7441b6c801042d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford, Terry. Aerial Photographs
Description
An account of the resource
15 target photographs from Terry Ford's operations with 75 Squadron.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Ford, T
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Harqueboc
Description
An account of the resource
Vertical aerial photograph of Harqueboc, Le Havre. Street patterns can be seen to the left and top right of the photograph, located north-west of Harfleur. Annotated '1614 MEP 6.9.44// 8” 7,000 [arrow] 128[degrees] 1802 HARQUEBEC. N.11x1000, 4x500 C.27 SECS. F/O FORD. Y.75'.
Creator
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75 Squadron
Date
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1944-09-06
Format
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One b/w photograph
Language
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eng
Type
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Photograph
Identifier
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PFordTA17030002
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
France--Harfleur
Conforms To
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Geolocated
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09-06
75 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
Lancaster
RAF Mepal
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/239/3384/ACouperAJ151208.2.mp3
ac37331c622356f58e50bdab1d0f435e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Couper, Allan Joseph
Allan Joseph Couper
Allan J Couper
Allan Couper
A J Couper
A Couper
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Allan Joseph Couper [d. 2022]. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 75 Squadron.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Couper, AJ
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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Alright. Here we go. This is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre with Allan Couper who was a 75 Squadron, New Zealand Squadron bomb aimer which is an RAF squadron during World War Two. The interview is taking place at Cabrini Hospital in Brighton where Allan is unfortunately a patient. My name is Adam Purcell. It is the 8th of December 2015. Allan, we may as well start. Start from the beginning. Can you tell me something of your early life, how you grew up, what your education was like and what you did before the Air Force?
AC: Well my family, the Coupers. C O U P E R S. The Coupers had dairy farms at a place called [unclear] South. Somewhere between Leongatha and Mirboo North. Actually, my great grandfather selected land at Mirboo way back in the eighteen, probably the 1880s. And my grandfather, the son selected land at [unclear] South. A hundred and sixty acres I think it would have been. It was completely forested. Now, in that family there were four boys and three girls. It’s of interest to me that the first boy, son was out crawling around the veranda of what might have been the house, it was probably only a two roomed affair on the, on the farm. He got bitten by a snake and by the time I got him to the doctor he’d passed away. Always been very careful about snakes in my time. Well they [pause] yeah they milked cows for a living shall we say. I’ve been told that at the very beginning when there were no separators, cream separators, what they used to do was put the milk [pause] they used to put the cream in these big basins and then skim the, or put the milk in the basins and skim the, skim the cream off. What they did with this cream I’ve never actually found out. But obviously they must have sold some of it. Well, as time went by and the boys grew up, they acquired adjoining farms. Or their father did, I think. And so it became, and my uncles and aunts et cetera were all dairy farmers including my father and my mother and we endeavoured to make a living. It wasn’t really very successful for all sorts of reasons. By the time I, oh I went to school at the local primary. [unclear] south number 3356. I can still remember that. Initially I got there, I walked and then we moved to another farm and I then had to ride a horse. I had the experience a couple of years ago of going to a grandparent’s function at the school where my grandchildren are now attending. They were doing an interview of the grandmas and grandpas and on this particular occasion a question was asked of me, ‘How did you get to school, grandpa?’ And I said, ‘I rode a horse.’ ‘Oh. Why would you ride a horse, grandpa? Why?’ Why? I explained why. Of course, they all were driven there these days in a motor car. Anyway, in those days we were examined at eighth grade, which is what the primary school went to and we got the, whatever it was called — the merit certificate. It was decided by my parents that I would continue on doing year nine but I would do it by correspondence which was a bit of a challenge to me. Particularly if you are doing French and I didn’t have anybody to talk to in French. Anyway, after about one term of that we moved to Melbourne and I went, from there I went to the Box Hill High. I was there for two years, more or less. Left when I got my intermediate because by that time my father had enlisted in the army in the Second World War. Money was very scarce. Almost non-existent. So I got a job working as a junior clerk at a place called James McEwan Hardware Stores in the CBD. I have to say that was a new experience for me. Anyway, after a few months I saw a vacancy for a job in the State Electricity Commission as a junior clerk. I applied and got it and I was taken on. Worked there in what was called the overhead main section. The overhead main section was responsible for building the transmission lines from, for example [unclear] to Melbourne from what do they call their key, not key but [unclear] that was up in the hills where they had a hydro station and I sort of did all sorts of odd things. Then one day I saw, oh I started doing English and maths 1 at night school. That was also my mother persuaded me to take on doing mechanic studies. I was spending more time at night time going to school than anything else in the city. Then I saw an advertisement in the paper. It was just a point of time when the Japanese were, had come in to the war. I saw an advertisement. They were advertising for cadets for the Air Training Corps. I made an application. I was accepted. And then for the next two years I went a couple of nights a week to the Camberwell Boys Grammar School I think it was, for lessons. Now, how am I going?
AP: Very well.
AC: Enough detail?
AP: Very well. This is —
AC: Ok.
AP: This is excellent.
AC: Ok. One of the interesting things about that was that each morning it was my job to change the blotter on the desk of one of the senior engineers that worked on the same floor as I was working. That was in a building in the, in the city. He happened to be a chief education officer for the Air Training Corps. And it so happened that I was able to, whilst changing the blotter have a look in to his inwards tray and see what was going on in the Air Training Corps [laughs] So I was well briefed there. Nobody else would have been. Eventually, I was coming around to being eighteen and I was accepted by the RAAF. It also just happened, not that it really advantaged me, it just happened that the chief of the RAF, RAAF recruiting was a gentleman called Sir Harold Buxton. He had been the mayor and he was the senior director of James McEwan. And because of his role in the Air Force his secretary used to get me to take correspondence et cetera up to Sir Harold’s office which was at the corner of [pause] Little Collins and Queen Street. That didn’t really have anything to do with me except just that that did happen. Sir Harold had been in the, well the equivalent of the RAAF in the First World War. Obviously, he would have been a pilot. As I said before he had been the mayor. Lord Mayor of Melbourne. Well, whilst we were in the Air Training Corps we did quite a few things. Like on Saturdays on one occasion I remember we went down to Laverton. It was a great thrill for us boys of sixteen, seventeen to go down there and see the planes. Many of them being, of course almost obsolete. I remember on one occasion we were asked to go to the Hawthorn Town Hall. They were having a loan function. It was for advertising how they needed money to pay for the Second World War. Me and the boys, we all went. Made up the audience of course. That was the idea of it but on the platform we had some very good speakers. One of them was a well-known correspondent, war correspondent who’d just been to New Guinea and had experienced the traumas of the Kokoda Trail. He talked about that. Of course nobody in the audience really knew anything about the Kokoda Trail but he sort of filled in. Another one that spoke was a lady. I can’t think of her name now. But anyway her mother, she was the mother of a gentleman who was in the RAAF who later on made his name when he came and brought an aircraft home and flew underneath the Sydney Harbour Bridge. He later on went on to be involved with publishing. How are we going?
AP: Yeah. That’s alright.
AC: Alright.
AP: We were talking, I think Peter Isaacson you’re talking about.
AC: Yeah.
AP: Yeah.
AC: Isaacson.
AP: Yeah.
AC: And also, at the end of the evening we had the pleasure of hearing Sir Robert Menzies speak. And then subsequently answer questions. And whilst I was only seventeen, I was fascinated by his ability to answer questions. Talking of questions, on one occasion, one Saturday afternoon we were all brought together and the gentleman that I spoke of who was the chief educator for the Air Training Corps and who worked at the SEC and whose inwards I used to inspect every now and again came to sort of make a visit. I suppose to check us over. The interesting thing about it I said, prior to him coming we had a series of questions asked of us and funnily enough those same questions were asked when the gentleman [laughs] the chief training instructor was there. Of course we, we all knew the answers. Anyway, eventually when I was just before I was eighteen I asked to attend the RAAF recruiting I suppose. It was in a building on the corner of Little Collins and Russell Street I recall. Had the name of Piston Motors or something like that and went through a series of interviews. Had medical examinations. And one of the examinations, oh yeah, the medical examination I had one of the doctors conducting it recognised me. A couple of years before, after I’d been attending a church service shall we say, I fell off my bike. He happened, his surgery happened to be opposite the church in Surrey Hills and he looked after me and when I got into this medical in the RAAF he recognised me. Anyway, he passed me. Well eventually a few days after I was eighteen I reported to this place in Little Collins and what was it again? Russell Street.
AP: Yeah.
AC: We all came together. All swore on the bible. My father must have accompanied me and I recall he’d come back from the Middle East by this time. I recall him saying to me, ‘Now don’t go, go to Victor Harbour. Don’t go to Victor Harbour, Allan.’ Victor Harbour was another training area like Somers I mentioned about. Victor Harbour was in South Australia and of course it was I suppose a business of an eighteen year old one day going into the State and not being able to come home. Anyway, we were marched off down to the station and went off down to Somers. Will you want to know anything about Somers?
AP: Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s, we’re getting up to pretty well my next question was talking about your Initial Training School. So tell me. Tell me what you did at Somers.
AC: Well, when we got down to Flinders, no — Frankston Station, got on a bus, went down to Somers. We must have got there by about lunchtime and probably had a bit of lunch and then we were taken to the equipment room. And one of the first things I remember happening there was that they pointed to a pile of hessian bags and then a pile of oats, not oats — hay and said, ‘That’ll be your bedding for the night.’ Anyway, we got our blankets and I suppose a pillow and then would have had equipment to sleep in or sleep on and shown where which hut we were going to be in. And then, probably the next day we would have been lined up and allotted to our class. I think I was in B Flight. A B A B C D E F. I was in B flight. That’s right. And we started a lecture series. Going, going over some of the things we’d already been taught at the Air Training Corps but you have to remember that most of the people involved with that course, course 35, Somers, Initial Training School — most of them were, hadn’t been in the Air Training Corps schools. Hadn’t been with the Air Training Corps. So, I think, I think I’ve still got a letter. I was number two from my, second one in from my squadron. And so, you know it was very, in one sense very early days. Well, we did all these various things. Did a lot of drill. Did physical exercises. Went to the pictures occasionally. Every morning we had to line up and go onto the parade ground. Do our parade. [pause] One of the things I remember about it was we all had to do eye tests and my, apparently my, I had some problem with my vision that hadn’t shown up before. And I was put through a series of exercises to try and improve the situation. It may or may not have. I’ll mention it later. One of the other interesting things that happened there was at the time somehow or another I broke my upper false teeth. Cracked. So I went to the dentist and must have been home on leave at the time of the break. Of course it was very sharp and I couldn’t really wear the two pieces of teeth. It was very sharp. So I got a nail file and I relieved the situation. When I went back to the dentist he couldn’t understand why the teeth didn’t sort of come together like they used to. But nobody was, nothing was revealed. As a consequence I got a new set of, new set of teeth. Well, eventually we finished the three months. We finished the course. In the process we had been and had a series of interviews. Now, the adjutant at that, for our squadron was the cyclist. What was his name? Famous cyclist. Went into parliament later.
AP: Opperman.
AC: Yeah. It was Hubert Opperman. He was a very nice fellow. Treated us all very well. At the end of the three months our flight went out to dinner at some café along the coast down at Somers. One of the things I remember about that was they asked Oppy to give us a bit of a talk about his, when he was the cycling in various tournaments. And he made mention of a twenty four hour ride in Paris. And when he’d finished one of the smart boys got up and said, ‘Sir. How did you cope with your wee wee problem riding a bike for twenty four hours?’ I can’t remember [laughs] what he said.
AP: But that’s the best bit [laughs]
AC: Anyway —
AP: Oh dear.
AC: In the process we were selected out to be either pilots, observers or wireless air gunners. And then we were sent off to the appropriate station and I went to Western Junction as a trainee pilot.
AP: As a trainee pilot. Right. I sense there’s a story here if you were a trainee pilot.
AC: Well, at the time. I wasn’t in the end.
AP: Did [pause] so ok so how, how far did you get through the pilot course?
AC: I got to twelve hours.
AP: Did you solo?
AC: No.
AP: Bugger. That’s always my, my next question really for anyone who went through pilot training. I always ask them about their first solo. But you can probably tell me something about the Tiger Moth. What did you think of it?
AC: What?
AP: You can probably tell me something about the Tiger Moth. What, what did you think of flying the Tiger Moth during your brief time pilot training?
AC: Well I’d never flown in anything else. Didn’t know anything about it. It was the standard training plane. We had to start the damned things by twisting the propeller. But it wasn’t, the trainee had already got into his cockpit. He didn’t do that. It was somebody else that did it. But the fundamental reason for me getting, we used the term scrubbed, was the eyesight problem. The judgement. The judgement on landing. It was very important to be able to precisely know whether you were three feet above the ground or thirty feet. So that was my understanding of it. Well then I, we were shall we say stood down. I wasn’t the only one. About twenty five percent of them were. And I’ll mention that in a minute. And then we were stood down and just sort of re-allotted quarters and put on to digging trenches because still at this time the Japanese, the Japanese event was very much to the fore. And the fellow that was in charge of us, I suppose he was a corporal or something had been in Darwin in charge of much the same thing but had obviously been re-allotted. Given the boot I suppose. And that’s what we did for a while. But eventually I was interviewed by the wing commander in charge of the squadron, or the base and I was made, re-allotted to being an observer and then transferred up to Cootamundra to the Air Navigation School for further training. It turned out that most of the people that went there were scrubbed pilots. So obviously it was part of a plan. Every hundred pilots and twenty five would be given the boot and then sent on to the air navigation. That’s how it worked as I understand it. Shall I keep going?
AP: Absolutely.
AC: Well —
AP: What we might do. I’ll just let you talk. Keep talking until you run out of things to talk about and then I’ll go back and fill in the gaps later. Like you when you get to the end I’ll go back and see if there’s are any other questions that I need to ask you. So just, just keep going. There’s good, there’s good stuff actually. This is really good.
AC: Well, we went to, I went to Cootamundra and met up with, of a course a different set of people. Fellas. Mostly they came from Queensland and New South Wales. We weren’t there very long before we were put on to air training in the Avro Ansons. Two, two trainees would go up with a pilot and stooge around doing different things. I remember one of the things we had to do was, say go to [pause] the name just comes to mind, Lismore and do a sketch of the Lismore township as we flew over. That was all part of the training. I think we got down to Mildura on one occasion on training. And one of the things I do now remember is we went over to the coast. There’s a place with an inlet, a big inlet. River coming in. And we had to do a sketch of that. It was near Merimbula, but you had to be pretty quick. And on that particular exercise one of the planes, I don’t, didn’t ever find out what happened but failed and would have crashed and one of the trainee navigators or, trainee observers they were, parachuted but hadn’t done the straps up under between his legs and he, of course he couldn’t control his fall and he was killed. There was a story, I don’t know that it had any truth in it but the other one, there were two of course, the other one was in the UK over Wales. Much the same happened. He’d forgotten to do his straps up. Just don’t believe it but I did hear that story. Anyway, we worked our way through the course. It was as cold as buggery being in the winter. There was no real heating. And eventually we had our exams. I did well. I came third in the class. Got above average. Very happy with my role in life. I would have been the youngest there because of the Air Training Corps bit. And from there we were shifted on to number 3 BAGS — Bombing and Gunnery School. That was at West Sale. Yeah. All the new, all the new, no, all the boys from New South Wales, Queensland et cetera went off up north to another training station there and I was sort of well, I didn’t know anybody initially at BAGS. We did a month on gunnery training. We did a month on bombing training there. For the bombing we flew in, well Oxfords I think. I can’t remember whether Ansons or Oxfords. And for the gunnery we flew in Fairey Battles. Well that was an experience. A Fairey Battle. Terrible. And one of the things that used to happen was the pilots, of course it was pretty dull for them just flying alongside an aircraft towing a drogue which we were supposed to fire at. And after the exercise was over they’d do a few aerobatics. Well, I’m afraid I didn’t enjoy the aeroplane. One of the exercises we did was low level bombing. Had to drop ten bombs on a, on the target. This was all out near the coast at Sale. I had to drop ten bombs. The little fellas. And the pilot and I managed to get all ten on target which was quite an achievement. It had a lot to do with the pilot mind you. Thinking about it there were no real highlights when we were there. Oh. From there, that’s, we got our wings there. I don’t know why but we did. Then we went on, I went on, I went on to the Air Navigation School at Nhill.
AP: Right.
AC: Where we learned to fly by using [pause] what did we use? [pause] It’ll come to me.
AP: Astro?
AC: Eh?
AP: Astro?
AC: Yeah.
AP: So, so a sextant.
AC: Yeah.
AP: Presumably. Yeah.
AC: We were there for about a month using the astro navigation. Learning where the stars were et cetera et cetera. Yeah. On one of the missions I got lost. Course we were all sort of over Mallee country. There were very few features that we could sort of identify. And then we had the exam. As a result of the exam I got a below average. It didn’t mean, I don’t know whether it meant much. So then we were put on to leave for re-direction as qualified aircrew. Had to report in to the Spencer Street Station every day for instructions. Of course I was at home. I lived in ‘Bourne at the time. Eventually we were put on a train to Sydney. It turned out there was a couple of others I must have known. We eventually got to Sydney. Caught the train out to some station. Well known station north of Sydney. Got off the train. The station must have been next door to the RAAF station I think. When we got to the RAAF station we were about to go in [pause] there was a fellow I knew there. A trainee who’d been at some of the places I’d been to. ‘Hurry on,’ he said, ‘Hurry on,’ he said, ‘Hurry on, I’m making a selection. Hurry on.’ So we sort of picked up our bags and went down to where there was a line up. It turned out that we were lining up to be exported the next day to San Francisco. We dashed around to get a bit of clothing and that sort of thing. The next day put on a bus and put on a ship. It was an American transport. Something Vernon. Mount Vernon comes to mind. Put on there and away we went. Now then. What are your questions?
AP: Your wings.
AC: Eh?
AP: Your wings you said you got at West Sale. Did you have an O or a B or something else?
AC: Oh a B. No. No. No. No. I had an O to start with. I had an O.
AP: When did that —
AC: Observer.
AP: Yeah. When did that change to the B? And do you know how it sort of happened? Or did someone just kind of give you another one and say you’ve got these ones now.
AC: Well, how it happened was when we eventually got to the UK we went to Brighton which was a personnel depot. Once again we were all lined up. And they called for volunteers for bomb aimers. Saying that they needed this sort of background, that sort of background et cetera et cetera, and there would be an immediate posting. So the group of us, half a dozen of us who had been mainly Cootamundra put our hands up and about two days later we were on a train to a place up in — Wigtown, I think it was. Wigtown. Up in Scotland. That’s how we became bomb aimers. Or how we started off being bomb aimers. And then after we’d been there we went to what they called the Operational Training Unit at Westcott. The navigation leader said, ‘You shouldn’t be wearing those O’s you should be wearing a B.’ That’s how it came about.
AP: Alright. Presumably this is the first time that you’ve, you’ve been overseas.
AC: Oh yes.
AP: Yeah. What did you think of the US? You probably weren’t there for very long but —
AC: Well we were there for about a fortnight. The US. Well we got to San Francisco. We were put into a US army station which of course it would have been a permanent place. Well-equipped and everything. We had a couple of days. Might have, might have been more than that in this camp. We were allowed to go into San Francisco. I remember going in to, somehow getting in to an ice skating rink [laughs] and doing some ice skating. Then we were put on the train and set off. Well, we didn’t know where we were going of course. We thought we might be going to Canada which a lot of people, a lot of them did. Anyway, we set off late in the afternoon and had to go over the Rockies. And one of them, and of course it was a troop train. It just had us. It would be about three hundred I think. There were probably others in addition to the, you know the navigators, the air observers et cetera. I can’t remember though. Probably we never even mixed with them. I always remember when we got sort of up to the Rockies it had been snowing and all the boys were crowding at the window, windows looking out at the snow. Course some of them had, the Queenslanders and that had probably never seen snow. Don’t know whether I had either. Well, we continued to look out at the snow for the rest of the journey to New York. Eventually we got to New York. We had stopped off in Chicago I remember but we hadn’t got off the train. We went to, got from Chicago to New York. The last bit of it we were filing down the Hudson River which was ice-bound. Ice topped. We got to New York and we were taken to some sort of a gathering place. Christmas Eve 1943. And there we were allotted out to homes in New York. Probably two by two. And I don’t recall but we must have been put in a taxi. We went to this place, American family where we had a meal. And then went to the pictures about 1 am in the morning. And the next day had Christmas lunch. And one of the things I remember about that is I think the, the father there was a stockbroker or something. Something like that. Anyway, he had a couple of bottles of wine on the table. My mate who would be only my age you know, I don’t suppose he’d ever drunk wine said, ‘Oh I don’t drink wine.’ So the poor fella took the wine bottles off. So it must have been a disappointment for them. Anyway, we had a couple of nights there. We went back into New York and sort of got accommodation in the basement of the hotel. And we had a, we had a — we managed to get to an opera that we didn’t pay for. And then eventually we gathered together. We were taken to another army, US army place. An island it was in the Hudson River somewhere. We were put on a ship. The Ile de France. Oh, from there we were put on a ship the Ile de France which had been under repair. We were there for two or three days down at the, right down the bottom of the ship. One of the things I do remember about it is that they were able to broadcast BBC news. I remember a story being told over the wireless of course how the RAF had bombed some place in Germany and they’d lost, I think it was sixty nine aircraft. Something like that. I thought my God. What are we letting ourselves in for? Well, the Ile de France had some problem. Engines perhaps didn’t work or something. We were taken off. Taken back to where we’d been. A couple of days later we were taken off again and put on to the Queen Elizabeth. We had much, much, much much, much better accommodation [laughs] It was pretty crowded. Supposedly there was sixteen thousand on board. I well believe it. Queues for the meals ran all day and night. Anyway, we set off, not knowing where we were going but we could guess. About two days out, at about 1.30 am in the morning the captain comes on the, shall we say the loudspeakers, ‘I want everybody to put their life jackets on immediately.’ Which of course we did. Well, it turned out, later I found out, I met a fellow that was on the, up on deck on the sort of, what do they call it the viewee. Sort of had got to know what had happened was there had been a submarine scare and obviously the Queen Elizabeth had been diverted. Just as well wasn’t it? Well eventually we got to Glasgow in the UK, in Scotland and were taken down to Brighton by train where we were, get back to the, we were accommodated for a few days and then sent up to this place in Scotland where we started our real training as bomb aimers. Much the same as what we’d done as observers. Out over the Irish Sea. Of course, one of the issues there was it was a matter of getting to know the signals and all that sort of thing. All the specialities of the RAF.
AP: What do you mean by signals?
AC: Oh. When you got to point B there’d be an orange light flashing three times. You get to the point. This wouldn’t be for the UK but this was for training. When you got to the next point there would be one end that be flashing orange, blue or something. And all, and of course we were all the radio, we didn’t do the radio but you get to know the radio bits and pieces. The landing arrangements and all that. But in between we did a lot of bombing practice. Bombing practice.
AP: What did you think of the UK in wartime?
AC: What?
AP: What were your impressions of the UK in wartime? Particularly England.
AC: [pause] Impressions. Well of course the place was absolutely over run with troops because when we got there they were getting ready for the invasion. And where we were down in Brighton there were mostly the Canadians were stationed there. Lots and lots and lots of Americans. Lots and lots of Brits. And what people don’t realise is, you know there was a fair sprinkling of Poles and that sort of thing. Well, there was food rationing. Very severe food rationing. The roads were [indecipherable] on occasion, not all the time, on occasion tanks and that sort of thing. A lot of women in uniform. We were restricted to where we could go. When we were, when we were at Brighton we were sort of fenced in. You could go to there or there. So one day some three or four of us got on a bus, went there and met up with the RAF boys, men. They took our names and we were put on a charge. It wasn’t very far but we were sort of, hadn’t listened to the instructions. It was really sort of unbelievable actually. And of course another issue of there was the number of aircraft.
[telephone ringing]
AC: You’ll have to excuse me.
[recording paused]
AC: Where were we?
AP: We were talking about wartime England.
AC: Oh yes.
AP: And you said it was pretty amazing.
AC: Well it was [pause] Yes it was, well of course it was all geared and I made the point that everywhere, everywhere there were aircraft training. At our time, for example when we were in Brighton it wasn’t, we weren’t there very long. About seven or eight days I expect. But it, perhaps every afternoon a formation of Fortresses or Liberators would be coming back and coming over where we were. And other aircraft would be coming and going all the time. So yeah, it was all go go go go. So were the pubs. All go go go. There were six hundred pubs reputedly. There were reputedly six hundred pubs in Brighton. Alright. Well, eventually where did we get to? We, did we get up to Scotland?
AP: Yeah. Yeah.
AC: Yeah.
AP: You were at Scotland.
AC: Oh we’ve done that.
AP: That’s where you started training as a bomb aimer. Yeah.
AC: Well, ok.
AP: I think you got to OTU next.
AC: Yeah. The time came for, to be re-allotted and the next station was the Operational Training Unit and I was allotted to one at Westcott. Down near London. Westcott. And on the, I and another fella from where we had been were sent to Westcott. He was a New Zealander. And when we got to Westcott we were there apparently ahead of schedule before they formed up the next course. We had [pause] I had two or three days on my own shall we say. I met up with an another New Zealander. And whilst we were filling in time we went off to London which was something new to us. And then we, we went back and they had enough to make, make up a course. I can’t remember the course number. And shortly afterwards we were all brought together and the pilots in the group were asked to form a crew by going around, seeing if he had any friends or knew anybody or something or something. That was all very deliberate of course. And I was asked by a gentleman — Mr Boyer, Len Boyer, if I’d be his bomb aimer. And with others we made up, we made the crew. Except for the flight engineer who was to come later. And as a crew we were allotted a hut. A hut. Very tenth, tenth rate beds. Out in the mud because where we were, oh, sorry I’ve got the wrong. I got ahead of myself. We were in huts. In huts. I don’t think we were in Westcott. Yes, we were in huts as crews. That’s right. That’s right. And we did a lot of training as a crew. A lot of bombing, a lot of navigating and also learning how to fire the guns and so it went on. We were sent off to another station for a while. Probably because there was better landing or something like that. Eventually we, oh in particular we were supposedly being trained to go to the Far East. This particular, this particular OTU was supposedly training crews for the Far East. And we did quite a bit of familiarisation there. And when it came time very few went to the Far East but some must have. Or one crew must have because when I was coming home on the Athlone Castle, when we got to Bombay one of the fellows that was at Westcott walked up the gangway [laughs]. I never actually met him because he went somewhere else. But, well Westcott of course was very challenging because of all the different exercises we had to participate in. Very, very challenging. We were learning to be a crew. Each one was learning to do their bit and we allowed for flying in the dark. One thing or another. Well the time came to move on. We probably had a bit of leave then and the New Zealander who came in to the crew who was the wireless operator I recall he and I went off down to London. The others went home because they were Poms. Well, then we were re-allotted again. This time we went to a service training school I think it was called where we went on to four engine aircraft. Stirlings. I can’t remember off-hand the name of the station. It was very, very, very rough put together. Obviously one of the stations built during the Second World War. We did about six weeks there flying the, the Stirling which was an aircraft we were very pleased to move on from. It didn’t have much height. From there we were re-allotted to the final training school. Lancaster. The LFS. Lancaster Flying School. It was a pre-war job. Good accommodation and everything. We were only there about seven or eight days just to learn how to fly the Lancaster and learn how to, what all the knobs meant. I suppose we did a couple of bombing exercises. And then one day we were put in a truck. Two crews. We went off and found ourselves at the Mepal Station which was the station for 75 NZ. And my crew, we had been allotted a hut and from there we were met up and I probably, oh yeah we went out on a few training exercises to start with. Two or three, I think. We were doing just, once again learning the various calls and signals and so forth. The etiquette on the airfield. Then we went on our first trip. We were allotted for the first trip. That was to an airfield in Holland. At Eindhoven. Now this was late August, early September 1944. The Brits and the Canadians had just broken out from where they’d been held up in the invasion point. They were moving up to Holland, through Belgium to Holland et cetera and the Americans were moving up towards Germany. I suppose Eindhoven at the time had seen everything of the German Air Force and we were to bomb the airfield. Well, now it became quite a saga because as we were setting off of course Mr Boyer had a very nervous crew. As we were setting off, about a minute and a half after we started on track the navigator announced that we were doing the reciprocal of what we should have been doing. So we immediately of course turned back onto the right course. That, in a sense, meant that we were three or four or five minutes late which subsequently became a real issue. Anyway, we set off what we were supposed to be doing. Somewhere over Holland, don’t know really where, we got attacked by anti-aircraft in very great volume because we were the only one [laughs] flying relatively low. But we managed. Well the pilot managed to get out of that by [pause] had a term for it. Diving left and right. We went on, eventually got to the airport, aerodrome. We were the only ones there. Dropped our bombs. I don’t know whether we hit anything. Then turned. Turned to port. Left. And managed to join up with another attack. Probably our squadron was taking Eindhoven and some other squadron was taking the next German airfield sort of down the road. We joined up with them and we were with, you know sort of with company and we got home ok. That was the first trip. Now, it was said, it used to be said that if you managed to survive the first three trips you had a fair chance of surviving. That was a fair illustration [laughs] of what the first three trips was all about. Terrible. Ok. Well, what do I do? Keep on going?
AP: You can keep on going if you feel like it.
AC: Number one to Eindhoven. I have to say the bomb aimer didn’t have a very high opinion of the navigator to start with [laughs] His confidence slipped a bit after that. Anyway, that’s another story.
AP: You were a fully trained navigator yourself.
AC: Well there’s that.
AP: The same course as the observer. Yes.
AC: I was.
AP: Understood.
AC: Of course, that was his bad luck. Anyway, we went on and did more. Most of the ones we did, the next three or four we did were down in to France. For example, I think we went to Boulogne. That’s the way you pronounce it. German troops holed up there. We went. We attacked the German front line somewhere. It would be in France. But somewhere around there. Down. Then eventually after trips, probably four or five we went on to night trips into Germany. Here, there and everywhere. Well, they were at night and you didn’t see much [laughs] Eventually of course you got to the target. The navigator would, largely got you there. We would, we had Pathfinders in those days. The Pathfinders would be dropping or have dropped target signals. Colours which we would have, we were, had, the idea was we bombed the target indicators. Sometimes we would get instructions to say allow for another hundred, hundred yards or something. As the targets, the target indicators were, had been dropped short or something like that. I wouldn’t have liked to have been the master bomber in all that. Well, that went on until about the seventh or the eighth flight. We went to a place on the Rhine. No. Yes. That’s right. I just can’t think of the name. It started with S I think. On the Rhine. And I haven’t told this story. Whilst we were training, at Westcott I think it was, we used to do night vision exercises. That was to, we used to sit in a sort of a hut or something. The lights turned on and some mythical light would, the idea was that gradually you recognised features. Follow me? Ok. Well it became obvious that the rear gunner had much better night vision than the rest of us. Well it became obvious to me anyway. Well, no notice was taken of it because it was just another exercise. But this particular night, after we’d left the target, he sighted a fighter attacking us and he called out to the pilot, me and to do a dive. Which he did. The gunner did get his machine guns going. Anyway, we managed to dive out of it. But I’ve always seen it, maybe not be correctly, seen it as his better eyesight. Because not many of us survived the fighter attacks. Anyway, we got out of that and got home. Well, we continued on doing these here, there. For example, we participated in the two trips that went to [pause] Driffield. Driffield. No. That’s [pause] they put on two bombing raids on this Northern Ruhr city for the one day. I was told later the idea was to show the Germans that we had the capacity to do that sort of thing. They were thousand bomber. Or one, the first one was a thousand bomber raid. We were part of it.
AP: Dusseldorf perhaps.
AC: Eh?
AP: Dusseldorf.
AC: No. It wasn’t Dusseldorf.
AP: Dortmund. Dortmund.
AC: Eh?
AP: Dortmund.
AC: No.
AP: No.
AC: Driffield.
AP: What else is there? No. Driffield is in the UK.
AC: It might come to me.
AP: Anyway.
AC: Anyway, we did, also did the night flight. We were, you know [laughs] we were sort of up for so many, so many hours. When we got home the thing that I always remember we were offered a small drink of rum and I don’t know what else [laughs] That was that one. [unclear] North end of the Ruhr anyway. Well, we had to get to thirty. That was the target. The next problem we ran into we had to stay for, oh one of the flights we did was to fly to the Dutch coast and drop bombs on the walls that were holding the water back from the Dutch land. We dropped bombs on the walls and the water flowed in and eventually we managed to kick the Germans out because the Germans couldn’t sort of operate their units. Well we had that. Feltwell. Not Feltwell. No, it wasn’t Feltwell. We did that. That was in a sense relatively simple. I believe we killed six hundred Dutchmen in the process though. Later on, just perhaps a week later on we had another of these flights to the south of the island which was on the coast of the estuary that led into Antwerp. And what they were really trying to do was to get shipping into Antwerp to supply all the troops and they had to get rid of the Germans. Well anyway, this city, town, on the south, we had to do this bombing exercise which we did relatively low and as we were leaving, turning around to go home the rear gunner said, ‘The aircraft behind us is going into the sea.’ Which it did. At the same time within seconds I suppose but might have been a half a minute one of our engines failed. And of course that wasn’t the best but we got rid of the bombs and that, that got rid of a lot of the weight. Anyway, the pilot tells us to don our parachutes which of course were here and there. But luckily, he managed to keep it all going and we got, we got home alright. The thing that always struck me, has always stayed in my mind is I was at the front of course, lying down, looking out. I’m looking out down there at that bloody great sheet of water. But we missed that. I mentioned, I should have mentioned earlier on one of the early flights that was going to France. We lost an engine on take-off with a full bomb load. Eighty thousand pounds I think it was. A full load. A lot of bombs. We were a fully laden aircraft. And we lost the engine on take-off. Well, normally the pilot would have gone back. First of all he would have had to get rid of a lot of the petrol and then he would have gone and landed it. But our friend Mr Boyer decided that the trip wasn’t all that bad. That we’d go on. And we went on and did the mission on three engines. You have to give him credit. You have to give him credit. So anyway, eventually we, we get to thirty two because at that stage they were increasing the number of missions as the casualties were sort of falling. And we were stood down at thirty two. And then from there we were all sent off to places for re-allotment and I was sent to, with some of the others, sent to a station in Scotland. And from there I was allotted to another station down near Coventry where I became a navigator. When I was, we were being used, well not used, our role there was to check the accuracy of signals on runways and each day, or each day and a half or something we would be allotted an aerodrome somewhere in England or Northern Ireland or Scotland to go and check the accuracy.
AP: So, this is like a standard beam approach.
AC: Yeah.
AP: That’s the signal you’re talking about.
AC: Yeah. They did have names for them but I can’t remember.
AP: You’d probably be interested to know they still do something very similar to that.
AC: Oh, they’d have to.
AP: Yeah.
AC: And they do it here. Here. They do it in Australia.
AP: Yeah. They certainly do.
AC: They’d have to.
AP: I’m an air traffic controller. They’re a pain in the backside but that’s another story. Anyway, cool. So how long did you do that for?
AC: Well, I got there about January. And I left about October.
AP: Ok.
AC: It was really, for me, of course I’m only nineteen at that point. To me it was one of the best things that ever happened to me because the people that were at this station they were all very, they were all trained crews. All very experienced crews. They’d been all over the world three times [laughs] They’d done everything. They were very experienced and, you know their backgrounds. But mostly, hang on. I was the only Australian. I was the only Australian on the station. There was a Canadian for a while. There might have been one or two or three New Zealanders. The rest were all Poms and of course they were all, they’d all been long term hadn’t they? Some of them were permanent people. Very interesting it was. And as a consequence, of course we went all around. All over England and all over Scotland and Ireland. And Northern Ireland. I was talking to a lady here this morning she was a New Zealander but spent quite a bit of time over in the UK. Some years actually. And she’d been up to, spent time in the Hebrides and all that. Well very, well I wouldn’t say it was the making of me but very interesting.
AP: From, I’m just interested on the bomb aimer side of things.
AC: The what?
AP: Just interested on the bomb aimer side of things.
AC: Yeah.
AP: What did a target indicator actually look like? Can you describe seeing one burst and what it looked like in front of you?
AC: Oh, it was just a big flame really. And I mean we’ll talk about night at the start. At night it was just down there somewhere. There. There. There. There. It was just a sort of a big flame. A big light. A big light. And of course, there’d be hopefully two or three of them in close proximity. Not always. Far from it. In daytime [pause] well they must have shown up in the daylight.
AP: Big and brighter I suppose, yeah.
AC: Eh?
AP: Even brighter than the first.
AC: Well, must have.
AP: When, when you’re, you were saying that the master bomber says you know aim at the reds.
AC: Yeah.
AP: Or aim at the greens or something. Could you as the bomb aimer actually hear that over the intercom?
AC: Oh yes. Yes.
AP: So it was patched over the intercom.
AC: Yes. Yes. I and the pilot probably. At that point in time it only lasted minutes. At that point in time the pilot and the bomb aimer were, shall we say running the show. But after the bombs had been dropped et cetera the navigator would give you a course to steer. With us though, just to make the point, for it was never explained to me, but I think some of it reverted back to our pilot. We were given the task of having special photography which meant that we had to fly what they termed the straight and narrow. Straight and level. Straight and level for, it might have been say fifty seconds. It doesn’t sound long [laughs] but up in the air under those conditions it was a bloody long time. Well we got, some of us got anointed with that somewhere after we’d started and we stayed in that role the whole time. It was something that the rest of the crew weren’t very keen about I can tell you [laughs]
AP: I can imagine.
AC: I don’t know. They weren’t very keen on that. I don’t blame them either.
AP: I’ve, I’ve seen a letter that was written by a wireless operator.
AC: Yeah.
AP: A friend sent home during the war. He described his bomb aimer as, ‘our best passenger.’ You know, ‘We carry him thousands of miles so he can drop his eggs and then he has a sleep on the way back and asks us how the flak was like.’ That’s probably a slightly jaundiced view. But what, what did you do as a bomb aimer when you weren’t actually in the nose with your finger on the tit?
AC: Well, in the first place, as a bomb aimer I was in the nose all the time. Except on one occasion where our pilot had to go to the toilet which of course was quite an experience for everybody. I was on my belly lying in the front of the aircraft. I was also theoretically the alternative front gunner but we didn’t use those. I used them accidentally once. I didn’t tell anyone.
AP: Yeah.
AC: But you lay there. You were the sort of assistant navigator. For example, if you were crossing the coast or you’d tell the navigator, ‘We’re now crossing the coast.’ Or crossing here or something over there. If you saw anything like it’s, well I used the word cathedral because we used Ely Cathedral all the time when we were coming back, as a landmark. You’d sight, sight the cathedral and you were watching out for aircraft, enemy aircraft or our own aircraft because they were a menace too. And also we in our squadron anyway I was the one that operated what was called the H2S. H2S. Have you heard of that?
AP: Yes. I have.
AC: And while on operations we didn’t use H2S too often. Well, it wasn’t encouraged actually because the enemy apparently put a locate on it. I did use, I did two or three times have to get up in the main cockpit and use the H2S. So that’s about it really. Yeah. Well, in a way the fellow was right but not really. You know. Because I see, well the whole thing sort of revolved around emergencies didn’t it? Of one sort or another. The example of an emergency was the pilot and the toilet. Yeah. In some cases and there were two on our squadron I don’t really know what happened to them but the pilots were wounded and the bomb aimers took over. I knew both of those. They took over and they managed to land. Don’t know how [laughs]
AP: So —
AC: Well, you see with me I’d done, I’d done the pilot training for twelve hours. That got me to the point where I could sort of fly an aircraft. We did a lot of the make believe training on the, we had these make believe aeroplanes. Did that all the time when we were on the squadron. So in a way I I wasn’t exactly dim witted, in the sense I’d done it all. But let me just say that this time when Lenny boy had to go to the toilet it starts off with, ‘Allan could you come up?’ I suppose, so, ‘I need to go to the toilet.’ That means I’ve got to sort of get out of where I am. Get up. We’ve got to get him out of his seat. Equip him with a parachute which must have been hanging somewhere. Get him fitted out with an oxygen mask because he couldn’t, couldn’t go to the toilet without oxygen. He’d never come back. We were in formation. Three other, I think three aircraft. We were on what was then termed, I think GH. That was another form of navigation. We were in formation and we were in cloud. And when we got home three aircraft didn’t come home on that trip. You can see how dicey it was.
AP: Very much so.
AC: Terrible.
AP: Speaking of dicey you mentioned earlier you accidentally used the front guns. I sense a story.
AC: Yeah. What? How did I do it?
AP: Yeah. What happened there?
AC: Well I must have been setting them into position or something and I must have pressed the trigger.
AP: In flight, or on the ground?
AC: On the ground.
AP: Oh dear.
AC: Going around. We was going around the tarmac. We had been at a night and it had all happened in a second.
AP: Very good.
AC: Not really.
AP: No. Not really at all [laughs] So anyway you’ve told me about your operational flying. When you weren’t on ops on the squadron or elsewhere in England what did you do when you weren’t on duty?
AC: Well so some of us stayed in bed. Some of us went to the pub. My navigator used to go sleep with his girlfriend. We all had bicycles. And on the squadron we would be, you know, we were very close to the place. Ely. Ely. Ely Cathedral. We used to go in there on occasion. Once or twice we went to the pictures there. When I was at the, where I went to the last operation. Come in.
[recording paused]
AC: Well, you know the last station we [pause] well I have to say we spent a lot of our time in the pubs.
AP: I would like to ask you about that soon too.
AC: But also we, I anyway, I and some of the others we used to go into Birmingham, big city, and go to the piccies. And also Stratford on Avon wasn’t very far away. And well say there was a Padre. The Padre used to organise small groups to go to the theatre et cetera [unclear] or a night. Went there quite a few times. And of course we used to go on leave every six weeks. Now, I had relatives in the UK. My mother came from England. She was English. And not every time I went on leave but about half I used to go and stay with them. That would be about it I think.
AP: You said you spent a fair a bit of time in pubs. Describe your favourite English pub. What happened there and what was it like?
AC: Favourite English pub. Oh I suppose that, the answer to that is that one that was nearby the Mepal [pause] Station. It was very close. It was very sort of friendly because I mean all the other crews or some of the other crews would be going there. We wouldn’t stay there very long. But that’s where we sort of spent a bit of time. I can’t remember. They had a snooker, billiard table in the mess. We used to play a lot of that. That would be in the off times. I don’t know whether that fills in.
AP: Yes. That’s alright. Alright, we might, we might, we’re getting fairly close to the end of my, my short list here. What, how did you find readjusting to civilian life when you came back? What did you do and how did you readjust?
AC: Well I worked for the State Electricity Commission. When I left I was a junior clerk. And at that time, in the era, all the people that went into the service were guaranteed their jobs back. SEC of course very big and I just went back to the job I was in when I went in to the Air Force. Nothing. There was nothing different. Nobody ever asked me any questions. But there were a lot of us doing the same thing. And then after a year or two I thought, you know I need to move on somehow or another. And I applied for a couple of jobs and got one of them and left the section that I was in. I went into what was called the audit branch which was totally different. And that had different demands et cetera. Used to spend quite a bit of time away from Melbourne doing audits in the country. Then I got another job as a trainee which gave me a broader horoscope. I spent a month with this group of people or that group of people. Or three months or six months. It was over a period of three years all around the place being trained up. Once I, one of, one of the jobs I was given was to be a meter reader. I did that for about three months. Later on in my work life I found myself in the role interviewing people for jobs. Different scene altogether. Anyway, this particular job that was being interviewed for was a meter reader’s job. Somewhere up in Mallee or Wimma or something. Outback place. The fella being interviewed probably didn’t understand what was going on. The question was asked by me about, something about the meter reading. Some technical point. He said to me, ‘You ever read any meters?’[laughs] I was able to say, ‘Yes. I’ve read quite a few.’ And that sort of [laughs] killed his further, further questions. I know. Oh well. Then I got a series of other jobs stepping up all the time. And that Frank Sims that was there with us that day he and I sort of started together. He was in a different role to me but we sort of finished together. He was in the Air Force. In the [regulars?] He’d been to not Pakistan. He went to [pause] We now called it whatever they call it. What they invaded. I’m terrible. Anyway, Frank and I sort of we stayed in the SEC all our working lives and for one reason or another we managed to get a few promotions. And I’ve got a problem with the teeth and well as far as I was concerned it was very success. It was very successful. It was hard work. Very demanding. Managed to eventually [laughs] eventually retire thankfully. But I did a lot of things subsequently. Did a lot of things.
AP: So perhaps the this is my final question, perhaps the most important one. For you personally what’s Bomber Command’s legacy and how do you want to see it remembered?
AC: Well we forget one aspect of it. As a marvellous well-organised organisation that achieved great things against great odds. It was a marvellous organisation. I haven’t said this to anybody else but the RAF, compared to the RAAF, of course there were all sorts of reasons for that were so far ahead. Technically and everywhere else it was hard to believe that we were both doing, in one way, the same thing. And whilst they haven’t picked up too many accolades in, not recent times but over time, over time it was a very very efficient organisation. Does that help you?
AP: That’s yeah. Yeah, that’s very good. How, how do you want to see it remembered?
AC: Remembered? [pause] I think along with the other groups, Fighter Command, not the Fleet Air Arm, what’s the one that went out to sea? And Transport Command. They all made the, a significant contribution to the, well the finalisation of the Second World War as they did. What people don’t understand is, for example one of the reasons that the Germans gave up was they ran out of petrol. They ran out of petrol because we constantly bombed their refineries and as a consequence of, this has got nothing to do with that, as a consequence of bombing their refineries we lost three aircraft on that mission I talked about. And we lost eight on a previous mission where I think we filled the gap. That was the oil refineries. Of course, the oil refineries naturally enough were extremely well defended. So they all made their contribution along with the RAAF and the RCAF. The Royal New Zealand Air Force. But it was a very big contribution that sort of got lost in the upsets after the war. I don’t know. Will that do?
AP: Very good. I think that’s a very emphatic way to finish actually. I think that’s, that’s quite good. Well, we’ve done pretty well. That’s an hour and fifty minutes. That’s not a bad effort. So, thank you very much. Let’s turn the tape off.
AC: Well, in a way, when you look back it’s a minor event but it wasn’t to us I have to say. It wasn’t to us.
AP: I don’t think it was a minor event at all. I’ve just spent the last two months interviewing ten of you guys and you were all —
AC: Of course none of them knew what they were letting themselves in for.
AP: I’ve heard something along those lines as well.
AC: Well we didn’t. When I applied to go into the Air Training Corps [laughs] it was a fun thing. Sort of.
AP: That’s awesome. Very good. Alright, I’ll stop the tape.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ACouperAJ151208
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Allan Joseph Couper
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:43:17 audio recording
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adam Purcell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Description
An account of the resource
Allan Joseph Couper grew up in Australia and joined the Air Training Corps as a teenager. He was employed by the State Electricity Company until he volunteered for the Royal Australian Air Force. He was accepted for aircrew training as a pilot and later as an observer. On the ship over to the Great Britain he heard a radio announcement that the RAF had bombed a city in Germany and had lost 69 aircraft. At that point he wondered what he had let himself in for. He later remustered as a bomb aimer and flew operations with 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. On one occasion, their aircraft lost an engine on take off but the pilot decided to proceed and they completed their operation on three engines. On another occasion the rear gunner said that he had witnessed one of their aircraft go into the sea. Couper looked out over the sea and considered their vulnerability. He recalls looking out for sight of Ely Cathedral to know they were nearly home.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Great Britain
Netherlands
England--Cambridgeshire
Netherlands--Eindhoven
Victoria--Melbourne
Victoria
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
75 Squadron
aircrew
Battle
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
H2S
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Operational Training Unit
RAF Mepal
RAF Westcott
Stirling
Tiger Moth
training
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bain, Andrew
A Bain
Description
An account of the resource
58 items. The collection concerns Andrew Bain (1916-1943, 658930, Royal Air Force). He joined the British Army in September 1939 and transferred to the RAF in October 1941. He was killed in action 23/24 August 1943. Collection includes: observer's logbook, pay book, photographs (some loose, some in album), letters (numerous), brevets and badges, medals, ribbons and BC Clasp. Includes correspondence received by Andrew's widow Isabel following his death and a list of his effects. <br /><br />Additional in formation on Andrew Bain is available via <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/201025/">the IBCC Losses Database.</a><br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Lorna Aitchison Howieson and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bain, A
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
20/7/43
25, Beaufort Gdns
Bishopbriggs
Glasgow.
Dear Mr Williamson,
Since last writing I have done my conversion to 4 engined bombers and have for the last three weeks been on an Ops Squadron near Ely in Cambridgeshire. I have done my first few ops and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience. There is not the tension about life here that I had expected. It is not a hard life by any means, but we do more flying than ever now (for we have our kite to look after) and it is tiring work. We haven’t run into any serious trouble but there is a happy sense of comradeship in the crew and on Ops the the patter over the intercom is bright, amusing, and has a very reassuring effect. We all live eat and sleep together so we just have to get on well. My Flight Engineer is a Glasgow fellow from Linthouse so I’ll have company to travel to and from
[page break]
leaves.
I am coming home on leave next Wednesday (27th) for 6 days.
Isabel has now been discharged from the Waaf [sic] for medical reasons. Her aunt died some months ago so Isabel is now looking after her Uncle and his little boy at Bishopbriggs. I shall be going there on leave and you should address your letters there in future. Isabel is not out much these days so I might not manage in to see you this time when on leave but I’ll make a point of phoning you and I’ll tell you how things are. Has T.McL. gone out into the world yet? And how is HJB enjoying RAF life now.
Hope you and the family are keeping well. And enjoying Glasgow’s Fair attractions?!
Yours
Andy
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
From Andrew to Mr Williamson
Description
An account of the resource
Letter in which Andrew describes how he feels about life in the squadron and how Isabel has now left the WAAF and is looking after uncle and his son.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Bain
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-07-20
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One two-page handwritten letter
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text. Correspondence
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
EBainAWilliamson[Mr]430720-0001, EBainAWilliamson[Mr]430720-0002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-07
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
military ethos
RAF Mepal
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bain, Andrew
A Bain
Description
An account of the resource
58 items. The collection concerns Andrew Bain (1916-1943, 658930, Royal Air Force). He joined the British Army in September 1939 and transferred to the RAF in October 1941. He was killed in action 23/24 August 1943. Collection includes: observer's logbook, pay book, photographs (some loose, some in album), letters (numerous), brevets and badges, medals, ribbons and BC Clasp. Includes correspondence received by Andrew's widow Isabel following his death and a list of his effects. <br /><br />Additional in formation on Andrew Bain is available via <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/201025/">the IBCC Losses Database.</a><br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Lorna Aitchison Howieson and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bain, A
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Postage stamp
Misses M. & M. Lumsden,
316, Kings Park Ave.,
Bankhead, Rutherglen,
Glasgow,
Scotland.
[page break]
10/7/43
25, Beaufort Gdns.,
Bishopbriggs,
Glasgow.
Dear Aunt Mary and
Aunt Margaret,
Isabel has been telling me about the thoughtful and very much appreciated wedding present you have given us and suggested I should drop you note to let you know how the boys in RAF blue are getting on.
Well I’m well and fit and thoroughly enjoying myself I am stationed down in Cambridgeshire near Ely and we can see the famous cathedral very clearly for it stands out as a landmark all around this flat country. I haven’t been
[page break]
(2)
there yet but I’ll get around to it sometime.
I am flying I a big 4 – engined plane doing night trips over enemy territory and, though it is hardly what I’d choose for a pastime, I find it exhilarating in a certain measure. I think this is mainly due to the excellent co-operation and infectious high spirits of our crew. There are 7 of us a Welshman, 2 Canadians, 2 Englishman, and 2 Glasgow boys. We all live together in the same billet and eat together and the sense of comradeship is a great help in the air. it doesn’t banish fear but it reduces it to a low minimum.
[page break]
(3)
I personally am greatly sustained by the love and kindness I receive from Isabel. I miss her a good deal but she writes me wonderful letters and we are always looking forward to my next leave when we can be together. I am continually grateful for having a wife who is everything I could desire.
I trust everything on the Home Front is under control as far as you are concerned though I’ve no doubt you’ll be as glad as I will to see the end.
Yours sincerely
Andy.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
From Andrew to Isabel's Aunts Mary and Margaret
Description
An account of the resource
Letter in which Andrew describes life on the squadron, including the comradeship of his crew and appreciation of Isabel. Includes envelope.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Bain
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-07-10
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One handwritten three-page letter and envelope
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text. Correspondence
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ELumsdenM-MBainA430710-0001, ELumsdenM-MBainA430710-0002, ELumsdenM-MBainA430710-0003, ELumsdenM-MBainA430710-0004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
fear
military ethos
RAF Mepal
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1359/45953/SSmithRW425992v10003-0002 copy.1.pdf
2b2498c35c56b9b3f87fd35ee89aa604
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Bob
Robert Wylie Smith
R W Smith
Description
An account of the resource
125 items. An oral history interview with Bob Smith (b. 1924, 425992 Royal Australian Air Force) photographs, documents and navigation logs and charts. He flew operations as a navigator with 15 Squadron at RAF Mildenhall.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Bob Smith and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-03-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, RW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A Tour of Operations with RAF Bomber Command No XV/15 Squadron Mildenhall
Description
An account of the resource
The third book of memoirs by Bob Smith.
Covers his operational tour and bombing operations.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bob Smith
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Germany--Heinsberg (Heinsberg)
France
France--Beauvoir-sur-Mer
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
United States
Michigan--Detroit
Germany--Homberg (Kassel)
France--Châlons-en-Champagne
France--Caen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Flensburg
Germany--Helgoland
Germany--Sylt
France--Somme
France--Aire-sur-la-Lys
France--Amiens
France--Gironde Estuary
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
France--Brest
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Braunschweig
France--Falaise Region
France--Royan
Poland--Szczecin
Great Britain
Scotland--Glasgow
Russia (Federation)--Kaliningrad (Kaliningradskai︠a︡ oblastʹ)
Sweden
Denmark
Sweden--Malmö
Netherlands
Netherlands--Eindhoven
France--Le Havre
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Düsseldorf
France--Calais
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Europe--Kattegat Region
Norway
Norway--Oslo
Denmark--Frederikshavn
France--Strasbourg
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Emmerich
Netherlands--Nijmegen
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Cologne
Belgium
Belgium--Antwerp
Germany--Essen
Netherlands--Vlissingen
Belgium--Charleroi
Germany--Leverkusen
Netherlands--Veere
Germany--Castrop-Rauxel
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Aachen Region
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Jülich
Germany--Fulda
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Australia
Victoria--Melbourne
New South Wales--Sydney
Queensland--Brisbane
Scotland--Inverness
England--Blackpool
England--Colchester
Germany--Merseburg Region
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Royal Canadian Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
98 printed pages
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SSmithRW425992v10003-0002 copy
1 Group
115 Squadron
149 Squadron
15 Squadron
186 Squadron
195 Squadron
218 Squadron
3 Group
5 Group
514 Squadron
6 Group
617 Squadron
622 Squadron
75 Squadron
8 Group
90 Squadron
aerial photograph
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
B-17
B-24
Battle
Blenheim
bomb aimer
bombing
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
Cook’s tour
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Flying Medal
Distinguished Service Order
escaping
flight engineer
Gee
George VI, King of Great Britain (1895-1952)
ground crew
ground personnel
H2S
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Ju 88
killed in action
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 3
Master Bomber
Me 109
mess
mine laying
Mosquito
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Oboe
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
pilot
prisoner of war
propaganda
radar
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Feltwell
RAF Honeybourne
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Lindholme
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Sealand
RAF Stradishall
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Uxbridge
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Weston Zoyland
RAF Witchford
RAF Wratting Common
RAF Wyton
Spitfire
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
target photograph
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Window
wireless operator
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Green, Charles Frederick
Charles Green
C F Green
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-29
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Green, CF
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flying Officer Charles Frederick Green DFC (b. 1921, 178730 Royal Air Force). As a mid-upper gunner, he completed 34 operations with 429 Squadron at RAF Leeming and 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: This is Brian Wright from International Bomber Command Centre interviewing Flying Officer Charles Green at 3.15pm on Tuesday the 29th of March 2016 at his home in Poulton, Lancashire. Start off with, Flying Officer Green, can you tell me where you were born and what your date of birth is please?
CG: My date of birth is 28 10 ‘21. I was born in Peckham, South East London.
BW: How many people were in your family? Did you have brothers and sisters?
CG: I’ve got two brothers. I did have a sister who passed away soon after she was born I’m afraid.
BW: And growing up, what sort of family life did you have?
CG: Oh great. Alright. Brilliant. Yes.
BW: I mean you were in sort of South East London actually in -
CG: Well I -
BW: The urban area weren’t you?
CG: That’s right but I was born in 1921 but in 1930 my parents wanted to move out of London which we did eventually and in 1930 we went to Dagenham in Essex.
BW: Right.
CG: Which was very countrified at that time. No buses, no trains or anything like that.
BW: And no large factories there like there are now.
CG: Sorry?
BW: No large factories there like there are now.
CG: No not now no. It’s different again now.
BW: And -
CG: Apparently -
BW: And, so what was your schooling like?
CG: What was what?
BW: Your schooling like. What sort of subjects did you do at school?
CG: Hist, oh dear, just the usual. Arithmetic, history, geography, things like that but we didn’t touch trigonometry and maths and all that until 1935. Halfway through 1935 [background noise] we went on to a bit of trigonometry and maths and all that but by that time it was a bit too late for me to pick it up.
BW: And so what, what, what year did you finish school? How old were you when you finished your schooling?
CG: I was fourteen. 1935. Christmas 1935 I left. Fourteen.
BW: And what happened after that? Where did you, where did go after that?
CG: After that I, my, my father got me in to the printing industry, Brown Knight and Truscott’s in London and I started to serve a seven-year apprenticeship in the machine room but there again the war came along and halfway through and put a stop to it. In which, first off I went on to the, when the war started I went on the ARP and then ran messages for the police. We all did. All half a dozen of us, of a gang of us and as I say we continued with the ARP at weekends and at night and then when 1941 came I was, I was nineteen then so I volunteered for the RAF which I went to the late, during '41 I went to the technical college to try and improve me grammar, education if you like and eventually I got called up. I got my RAF papers January 1942 and reported to the RAF at Lords Cricket Ground on the 26th of January 1942 and that was it. I was in the RAF.
BW: So just going back to the early part of the war because you’d gone in to the civilian -
CG: ARP.
BW: [unclear] forces as an ARP.
CG: Yeah the first off -
BW: And -
CG: Sorry?
BW: That’s alright and you must have, did you see much of the Blitz at that time because Dagenham isn’t that far from London?
CG: Oh yes. Going up to work it took us, it took my father and meself ages to get, a couple of hours to get to work because of the previous night’s bombing, the traffic was all haywire. Trains were, it was a case of getting on the underground so many stations, getting off, getting on a bus, two more, a couple of miles, to getting off again, getting back on the train into London and then walking from there to your firm where you worked with all the firefighters doing their work trying to clear up and knocking down buildings because, which was the, well you can imagine, pandemonium really. You were supposed to start work at eight, eight o’clock in the morning but we were getting there about half past ten like everybody else. Everybody else was the in the same boot you know it wasn’t just us.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Everybody [unclear]. And the same thing at night when you used to knock off at six and you didn’t get home 'till about eight or nine o’clock. Just a similar thing in reverse.
BW: And so you were working as an apprentice at this time.
CG: [unclear].
BW: But you doing your ARP in the evening and weekends.
CG: Yeah.
BW: So -
CG: Well I was doing it at night.
BW: Yeah.
CG: If you were on and then at weekends yeah but previous to that we used to run, we started running messages for the police ‘cause they didn’t have a, didn’t have a ruddy big police force at that time so that they asked for youths who weren’t in the forces who had a bike would they run messages for the police so we volunteered and then when they got the reserves, the police reserves, they didn’t want us obviously so we took up this air raid post. Yeah.
BW: Did you get to see any of the messages or know what the messages were about that you were running for the police?
CG: Oh no. I don’t know. No, we got, I took, I only took one or two if I remember.
BW: Right.
CG: Yeah no just had to go to someone else, knock on the door to give them a message. Nothing, nothing, well there was one for me, personal. Apparently somebody had been killed in London and we had to notify the parents. The police did but because they didn’t have anybody available they sent me but when I got there, weren’t anybody in. They were out. So eventually the police came looking for me to take me, yeah. That’s right that [laughs]. Oh dear.
BW: And how did it feel as an ARP seeing the bombers come over during a raid?
CG: Well it was at night. You didn’t see them actually. You heard them but yeah oh yeah and sometimes the odd one dropped a bomb too, accidentally or whatever and when they went back they had to perhaps get rid of one which was like we used to do.
BW: Yeah. Yeah.
CG: But yeah. Aye.
BW: And what drew you to the RAF? You mentioned that you volunteered and got your call-up papers in January ‘42 so you’d had a good long spell really.
CG: Oh twelve months.
BW: ’41. Twelve months as an ARP.
CG: Yeah. Twelve months. I volunteered in January ‘41 and they said it’ll be quite a while so that’s when I went, I went on to this technical college to try and improve my how’s your father grammar.
BW: Yeah.
CG: But oh education I suppose you might say. It’s a long time ago in it?
BW: What drew you to the RAF though as opposed to say to the army and navy?
CG: Sorry?
BW: What drew you to the RAF as opposed to the army or navy?
CG: Well I didn’t, I didn’t fancy the navy or the army to be honest. My prescription, prescription my conscription was coming up. I’d have to go in whatever happened but I wanted to choose what I wanted to go in if I could and I was leaning towards the RAF. Yes.
BW: And did you want to be air crew from the outset or did you prefer to go -
CG: Well that was -
BW: As ground crew?
CG: When in front of the selection board they said, ‘You’re wanting to be wireless operator / air gunner?’ So I said, ‘Yes.’ They said, ‘Well what’s wrong with, why don’t you want to be a pilot?’ So I was frank, I said, ‘Well, I don’t think I’ve got the education qualities.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘We could teach you. You could go to classes.’ So I said, ‘That’s alright,’ so I went. That’s when the twelve months previous I went to try and improve but, and when I first went in the RAF they sent me down to Brighton for air crew, air crew but it was all, I couldn’t do it. Trigonometry, maths. I couldn’t do that then. No. No. I knew I couldn’t but I tried, but there you are.
BW: And so you went straight -
CG: So -
BW: In as wireless op / air gunner.
CG: Yeah. Yes, I went wireless operator / air gunner and I finished up as an air gunner. Yeah. There was a wireless course but it's so complicated it would take me ages to explain that.
BW: And so once you’d joined up and had your basic training and then went on to the air gunnery course -
CG: Yeah.
BW: You started flying Ansons. Is that right?
CG: Yes. That was the first thing. I went through the ordinary course, you know the normal, normal gunnery taking it, taking guns to bits and putting them together and target practice and all that business and then, and then we went to air to air firing and we tried it on, we flew Ansons. That’s it.
BW: And were you assessed at these stages as to your accuracy of -?
CG: At the end of it yes. Yeah. Firing at a moving drogue. It was a ruddy job, we didn’t get very good results. Nobody did. And then from there oh dear Ansons yeah. From there -
BW: You said you went -
CG: That was -
BW: On to Whitleys.
CG: That was, where was it now? Ansons. No it wasn’t. I went to, oh I went oh that was ITW [?]. Went to Dalcross. Dalcross, oh I can’t see it. Oh Dalcross was the gunnery school. We finished up there. Oh dear.
BW: So looking at your logbook here it says 2 Air Gunnery School.
CG: Yeah but -
BW: Ansons.
CG: That’s right. Ansons. Yeah. And then we went to Honeybourne. Whitleys.
BW: Okay.
CG: It should be.
BW: Yeah. 24 OTU flying Whitleys.
CG: Whitleys. That’s right. Then from there we went to Croft. Halifaxes to start training. Start operations. Is that right? Should be.
BW: That’s right. Now this says 1664 Conversion Unit.
CG: Conversion Unit. Yeah that’s it. That was from the Whitley to the Halifax. Four, the Halifax, the four engine, similar to the -
BW: Yeah.
CG: Similar to the Lanc.
BW: How did you find that? What was that like when you started flying in those?
CG: Oh well the only thing it was a different kind of turret. You see on the Halifax, when you were on the Halifax it was electrically operated. In fact when you got in the turret you had a little joystick to move, move it around, with a button on top to press to fire your guns but on a Lancaster it was oil controlled and you had kind of a motorbike effect so when you held it you held it like a motorbike and if you depressed, depressed your hands that would move the turret and your fingers were in a guard and if you, the triggers were in the guard and if you squeezed the triggers it fired the guns.
BW: And so this is completely different from normal firing where people would look -
CG: Oh yeah.
BW: Through the fore sight and the rear sight.
CG: Oh yeah.
BW: And have the butt of the rifle in the shoulder. This is -
CG: Oh yeah, no, nothing yeah.
BW: Sort of using the guns to the side. Yeah.
CG: They were machine guns, yeah and then when I went — when I went on the Lancaster at the end I went underneath a point five and that was the nearest I can tell you about that is that that’s what the Yanks use in their Fortresses as near enough and you only had the one but they used to fire seven hundred and fifty a minute and you just sat, sat down there just in case somebody, you know, enemy came underneath ‘cause that’s what they were doing. The Messerschmitts, the Germans had the Messerschmitt 109, I think it was the 109 and they had an upper upward pointing gun and they used to fly under the bombers, point the gun and just fire.
BW: These would be the Messerschmitt 110s would they?
CG: 109.
BW: Well the 109 was a single engine fighter wasn’t it?
CG: That’s right yeah.
BW: But the, the 110 was a twin engine fighter.
CG: Yes. Yeah.
BW: With the cockpit and the cannon in the rear.
CG: Twin booms I think. Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
CG: But then they were a long time, long time doing that, bringing that underneath gun. They should have had it before. Anyway they brought that out and that’s how after I’d finished my first tour of ops when they recalled me again to my second one and that was to man the underneath gun. And that was at Mepal. 75 Squadron.
BW: Just coming back to your time on 429 Squadron you’ve gone through -
CG: 429 Canadian.
BW: That’s right. You’d gone through your conversion unit.
CG: That’s right.
BW: And you’ve now been posted to Leeming.
CG: That’s right again.
BW: 429 Squadron. It’s unusual perhaps that RAF crews serve with a Canadian unit as mixed. You would expect perhaps Canadian -
CG: Yeah.
BW: Crews complete. Were you a mixed crew?
CG: Yeah. Oh yes. The, in fact the navigator was a, was a Russian. His name, they called him Corkie. His parents had escaped from Russia at the revolution, Russian revolution. Bannoff his name was.
BW: Bannoff.
CG: Yeah.
BW: B A N O V?
CG: Bannoff I think it was. Bannoff. Yes that’s right. He was.
BW: And on this first crew do you remember who your pilot was?
CG: Oh yeah. Mitchell. He was a great bloke.
BW: And what, were they all NCOs? Was he an NCO as well?
CG: At the beginning yes but he was the first one to get commissioned.
BW: And do you recall his first name?
CG: I can. I ought to. We always called him Mitch. Leonard. Leonard. I think I’m right there. Leonard. Yeah. Don’t suppose it matters a lot though really but -
BW: And so with a Halifax you had a crew of five.
CG: No. No. Seven.
BW: Seven.
CG: Yeah. Oh yeah.
BW: Okay.
CG: Very good.
BW: Do you recall the others? The wireless operator.
CG: Yes. Yes just give me a minute then.
BW: That’s okay.
CG: The engineer was Bill Lawrence [pause]. The navigator was Corkie Bannoff [pause]. The wireless operator was Jamie Jameson.
BW: Jamie Jameson.
CG: Yeah. Used to call him Jamie. James, yeah, that’s it. Jameson. Yeah. Who else is there? Bannoff. How many have you got there?
BW: Including yourself that’s five. So there’s two gunners.
CG: Two more.
BW: There’s a rear gunner.
CG: Oh rear gunner.
BW: And mid up.
CG: Hunter. Eugene. Gene Hunter. Oh and the bomb aimer. The bomb aimer was, oh I can’t remember him now. Bomb aimer. Thompson. Tommy Thompson [pause]
BW: So he was the bomb aimer.
CG: That’s it. Yeah. You should have seven now.
BW: And the rear gunner was Gene Hunter.
CG: Gene Hunter yeah.
BW: Which left you as the mid upper.
CG: Seven.
BW: And that and you yourself would be -
CG: I was the mid upper.
BW: Yeah.
CG: At 429. It was 75 when I went the other one and I can’t tell you the crews on that one because they were all different crews every time. More or less.
BW: And how did you crew up with your Halifax guys? How did you meet and form as a crew?
CG: Oh yes it was after the, after the gunnery course. Then we went to this station, I think, it wasn’t Honeybourne. It was another station. We were all mixed. Pilots, navigators and everything and then this chap came around to me and, ‘We need a mid-upper. How about it?’ I said, ‘Yes. Okay.’ And that was it and I was, I was a member of Mitch’s crew. And I stayed. Luckily enough we stayed together all the time until we finished the tour.
BW: Did you socialise together at all?
CG: Sorry?
BW: Did you socialise together at all as a crew?
CG: Sorry again.
BW: Did you socialise together at all as a crew? Did you go out for drinks and dances -
CG: On occasions. On occasion -
BW: And things with each other?
CG: But to be, they had the money. We had, I forget whether it was thirty, no it was thirty bob when I was training. No don’t quote that I’m not sure. We didn’t get the money they got. I mean Bill Lawrence, we used to come down, we were upstairs in a room. When we came down they used to sit round here, all the other five, Canadians. They were alright. They were great. All around. A bundle of notes, back, you know, betting.
BW: Just used to throw them down on the floor to bet on the game.
CG: Oh Jeez and we had thirty bob. What could you do?
BW: Yeah.
CG: I mean they went out obviously and say, ‘Come on.’ ‘No. No.’ I couldn’t have, couldn’t sponge on people all the time like that.
BW: So who, who were the Canadians in your crew? You mentioned the Russian. Corkie. And you yourself were the Brit.
CG: Yeah.
BW: So the other five then of the seven must have all been Canadians.
CG: Except for Bill Lawrence the navigator, er engineer. He was English. Newcastle lad.
BW: So two Brits, four Canadians.
CG: Five Canadians.
BW: Five Canadians.
CG: Two Brits, five Canadians. Is that right? Should be. Yeah.
BW: And what were facilities like on the base for you?
CG: Oh alright. Yeah. Well it was a Canadian squadron. I mean we were sponsored by CPR, Canadian Pacific Railways. And we were told that if we went over there we would get free rides, free train rides. No trouble. And the other squadron 427, there were two squadrons on the station 427, they were sponsored by MGM. Metro Goldwyn Mayer and they got free, free films anywhere they were.
BW: Did you give your aircraft a name?
CG: U-Uncle, first one.
BW: U-Uncle.
CG: And then we had to have another one because we came on leave and while we were away another crew took it and it went in. It went down in the channel. So we lost that one. We got Q for Queenie I think. It should tell you in me book. Me logbook. What the name of the, what the name of the aircraft was.
BW: I’ll just have a look here. You started, it says you started flying in Z-Zulu. By -
CG: Was that training?
BW: The look of it. Those would be your first missions in December.
CG: Well it could have been yeah. Z- Zebra was it? Yeah. Q-Queenie mainly I thought but of course I might be a bit, I might be a bit rusty now.
BW: That’s alright. And you were in B flight?
CG: Yeah. Well, I can’t tell you. I wouldn’t say that. I don’t know without looking at that. Now when I was at Mepal 75 I was on one, one plane only. Every time it flew I flew. L for London that one. Funny wasn’t it, but when that flew I flew and left and when I left the station, I was finished it was still there so-
BW: Right.
CG: It was alright yeah.
BW: So while you were based at Leeming with 429 did your crew share the same barracks?
CG: Oh yes we had a house like this.
BW: Right.
CG: Yeah.
BW: Sort of a detached house in the, was it off base or was it on base?
CG: On base yeah.
BW: Right. It was a block. A block. Yeah it was. Not a, not a long block, it was a short block of houses if I remember. They called them married quarters but they weren’t then of course and Bill Lawrence and me we shared the upstairs bedroom, two beds. The other room which had three beds was the navigator, wireless operator and bomb aimer. No the bomb aimer was downstairs with Mitch. The pilot.
[pause]
BW: So you’re starting to fly operations now and you mentioned earlier that your first one was mine laying.
CG: That’s right.
BW: And it says Christmas Eve 1943.
CG: That’s right.
BW: That was your trip out.
CG: Yeah.
BW: To -
CG: Kiel Canal.
BW: Kiel Canal.
CG: Yeah and we were told later that the Admiral Scheer had been sunk so whether that was a bit of propaganda I don’t know. You had to take everything with a pinch of salt if you could.
BW: And before -
CG: We were followed back one day early on one of the trips if you want to know it might be there, I don’t know, by a Focke Wulf 190.
BW: Right. It’s not, just looking at this it’s not listed.
CG: That’s with 429 Squadron.
BW: Yeah. And what happened? How –
CG: He picked us up after we left the target and both Gene and me said, ‘Mitch a ruddy fighter behind us.’ ‘What is it?' he said, he asked. ‘190.’ ‘Well how far?’ ‘Oh its way back. Out of range. No good firing.’ So he said, ‘Well keep an eye on it all the time.’ Oh I can ruddy, it’s amazing how you can put out some of these and I don’t know whether I’ve had the cup of tea or not. ‘Keep an eye on it,’ he says, ‘but don’t forget the other sides of the plane because he might be a decoy,’. ‘Cause they used to do that you see or they’d put one over there on the port side and the other one would come in on the starboard. Something like that. Which we did. Kept an eye on him. All the time. A Focke Wulf 190 and you could always tell a Focke Wolf, reckon it was just like an ordinary, like a carrot, you see an ordinary carrot how it take, yeah that was it and he followed us right back to the Channel 'till we got to the French coast to come home and he banked off and went. Now why, never know. Never know that. Whether it was his first trip or whether he was trying to waste time I don’t know. But we never, 'cause we couldn’t find out but he followed us all the way back to the coast. French coast, 'till we crossed over to the Channel.
BW: But he picked you out as an individual bomber.
CG: Yeah. I don’t know.
BW: And you weren’t in a stream at that point. Were you not?
CG: What us?
BW: Yeah.
CG: Oh no we, when you got over there you just went in. You didn’t, you just followed, followed your target, your course and went in. Yeah. By the time you got in there was flak and fighters you just, searchlights, so you just had to do what you could. Yeah.
BW: And thinking about the mine laying operation.
CG: Yeah.
BW: I believe they were carried out at pretty low level, about three hundred feet at night. Is that right?
CG: Oh I can’t remember now, that. No. I can’t remember that one. I remember is our first trip you said? Yeah that’s right. We were all on edge looking out for ruddy fighters. Yeah we got, no I can’t. I remember we got over the canal, Kiel Canal wasn’t it? That’s it. And Mitch said, ‘Let it go,’ and the bloody plane went up because it does with the weight and he said, ‘Right. Let’s get off back.’ And that was it, I can’t remember much more about that.
BW: And when you prepared yourselves for a typical mission did you have any mascots or lucky charms or rituals or anything like that you went through?
CG: Oh yes I did. Well I could have brought it. I’ve got it upstairs. I should have brought it. Well it’s in there. I can show you. I’ve got a metal thing like a -
BW: Like a little plaque.
CG: For shaving -
BW: Oh I see.
CG: What they did in the First World War. Now my grandmother, my father’s mother gave it to him at the beginning of 1914 war and said to him, ‘Carry this in your pocket throughout the war,’. ‘Cause I wasn’t born then obviously which he did and on the night before I went into the RAF, we were playing monopoly and that. When we finished my mum and dad said, ‘Now take this son' and he explained what it was and I said, ‘Well what is it?’ He said he carried that. So my mother and father were asking me to carry it which I put in my pocket and I carried that throughout the war and I’ve still got it now.
BW: And that was in, that was in your left breast pocket was it?
CG: That’s it.
BW: On your battledress -
CG: Yeah.
BW: Jacket.
CG: Any my mum, my mother said take one of those Mon, what, Monopoly? What was I saying, no, what was that race game you used to run. Yeah. Was it Monopoly? No it wasn’t a race game was it? I had a little silver shoe.
BW: Yes. That, that was the one. They used it. There was a car, there was an iron and a little shoe, the boot.
CG: That’s it.
BW: That was Monopoly.
CG: I always used to have that when we played.
BW: Right.
CG: I’ll take, I said I’ll take the shoe and I pinned it down and I kept it on my jacket right near the end of the war.
BW: Right up on the left collar.
CG: Yeah. I get up. It’s on there. And I was at a peacetime, the war was over and they asked me to play for football, football game. I said yeah, I quite like football. So I took my jacket off for a goalpost and I lost my ruddy thing.
BW: Ah.
CG: I always curse that I lost it but I’ll show you my dad’s thing if you want.
BW: Ok.
CG: If they had time to shave they wouldn't have the ruddy time to shave.
BW: I see. It’s like a steel mirror.
CG: Yeah. That’s right. Of course you can’t see -
BW: It comes in a little -
CG: You can’t see it now.
BW: Leather case. And it has an inscription on the top, ‘Good luck from mum’. And it has been well used but like you say.
CG: My grandmother must have done that. Not, I didn’t, my mum didn’t.
BW: That feels actually quite heavy. Almost as though -
CG: Yeah.
BW: As if it would stop a bullet.
CG: Well I don’t know. Thank goodness I didn’t have to.
BW: That’s great and you’ve still got that –
CG: Yeah.
BW: After all these years.
CG: Yeah.
[pause]
BW: So there’s a few sort of keepsakes here. You’ve just mentioned -
CG: It was only a bit bobs. Yeah.
BW: Your whistle which you used for coming down in the sea.
CG: That’s the first, that’s the first grenade I threw. What was left of it?
BW: Right. Pin off a grenade. Where did you throw that?
CG: Pulled the pin out.
BW: Yeah.
CG: When I was practicing, when you first go in more or less.
[pause]
CG: All the identity discs.
BW: I see.
[pause]
BW: Yeah. Original dog tags.
CG: Sorry?
BW: Original dog tags.
CG: Yeah. That’s empty. That’s the, well that’s that haven’t you?
BW: That’s your DFC box yeah.
[pause]
CG: I’m forgetting what some of these are now.
BW: They look like medal ribbons.
CG: Oh aye, they’re my brevet.
BW: Yeah.
CG: My brevet.
BW: Air gunner’s brevet.
CG: These are all my ’39-‘45 star. And -
BW: Oh yeah.
CG: Well you don’t want to see all these do you? Really. Them, you know what you, ribbons.
BW: Yes. Yes.
CG: Yeah. You’ve seen them.
BW: Ribbons to go on the uniform.
CG: I’ll have a full time job putting these in again. Anyway, that’s about it I think. Oh that’s what I was given I think. Prayer book. Oh no that’s what my wife was given because she, she helped with the Trinity Hospice.
BW: Right. This is a millennium medal. And your wife was in the, it looks like she was -
CG: She was in the WAAF.
BW: In the WAAF.
xxxxxx
So just coming back to your time on 429 Squadron we were talking initially about rituals and mascots which led us to look at your, some of your, some of your memorabilia. What I wanted to ask you there was a pilot on the squadron called Jim Brown who came up with a, a description and I wonder whether this might sound familiar to you but not necessarily about your aircraft. But –
CG: No.
BW: He said the procedure for boarding the aircraft for an operation was a cigarette and a silent prayer I suppose each in his own way and then you’d go out and piss on the tail wheel for good luck. The only guy to complain was a tail gunner who said, ‘How would you like me to piss on the cockpit?’ [laughs] That’s Canadian humour I suppose.
CG: Yeah.
BW: But there was -
CG: I must tell you about 429 then. We had the wireless operator’s aunt or relation sent him a mascot. Pocahontas. Have you heard of her?
BW: Yes.
CG: We had it. So Mitch said, ‘we don’t want a ruddy Pocahontas.’ So he said, ‘yeah we do.’ Anyway, we took it and this first trip we had a bit of a dicey do so Mitch said, ‘we’ll throw that ruddy Pocahontas over the side. Open the door. Open the window,’ and that. So the wireless operator said, ‘no. No. We’re keeping it.’ So he said, so Mitch said, ‘right I’ll put it to the vote. All those that want it thrown out. All those who want to keep.’ We all decided to keep it and we did and his wife’s got it now.
BW: Right.
CG: Pocahontas. His wife’s got it.
BW: And was it like a little stuffed doll?
CG: Indian squaw. Indian squaw. It was about that big.
BW: Yeah. Oh.
CG: Doll.
BW: About twelve inch high. Yeah. Twelve inch high doll.
CG: Yeah.
BW: And he kept it in the, on board with him during the flight did he?
CG: I’ve got a photo of it. No, you’re going to be here all ruddy night.
BW: That’s alright.
CG: I’ve got a photo of it upstairs somewhere. Yeah.
BW: Right.
CG: Pocahontas.
BW: But you didn’t yourself smoke during those days did you?
CG: No. Well no not really.
BW: What was the, what would you say the attitude of the crew was during your tour of operations? Some have described it as being if you get through three they, the command think you’ve paid off your training and your life expectancy was eleven missions and this guy, this pilot Brown who I mentioned before he said if you, it gives you a kind of fatalistic attitude of eat, drink and be merry because you don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. Did you feel that sort of attitude -
CG: We did at times.
BW: Within the squadron?
CG: Yeah. We did. You just kept, you know hoping everything would turn out alright. It was only one, one trip I knew. Munster. I didn’t want to go on that for some reason. Didn’t want to, but we went anyway but that was when, yeah, that was Munster yeah but we went on it but it was just one of those things, that’s all. Not much.
BW: And so -
CG: Some people did. Some crew, not our crew but some other crews they didn’t want to do this or didn’t want to fly there. In fact there was one, we were at briefing when we came back and we were sat there waiting to go in for our briefing and used to get questions you know, you know that? Not briefing. You get questions. You know that. Not briefing. It was interrogation afterwards. Interrogation.
BW: Yes when you landed -
CG: That’s it.
BW: And you were debriefed. Yeah.
CG: Yeah and this chap, this air gunner came in and he was ruddy crying. Absolutely crying. A bloke. You know. And he was trembling all over and he was saying, ‘never again. I’m not going never again. Never again.’ And I ushered him out quick. Oh I can see him now that lad. Irish I think he was. In fact, so they say, I don’t know how true it was or whether the rest of his crew had said it but they’d been hose-piped. He’d been in the turret and hose-piped. That means he was sat in the turret and he had had two fighters coming in and he’d be going like that with his gun you see.
BW: So he’d be moving the turret from side to side trying -
CG: Yeah.
BW: To hit both aircraft.
CG: Yeah trying to shoot, just shooting, firing at will sort of thing.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Now, that’s all I knew about it. Everybody was talking about it but. And then we then one day we were called out on parade. All of them. The whole station called out on parade. Everybody on the parade ground. Everybody. And they marched this lad out, air gunner, and stripped him of his, stripped him off of his, he’d been court martialled ‘cause he wouldn’t, wouldn’t fly again. And they stripped his tapes off and his brevet off and everything. And he was just an ordinary airmen then which I think is shocking that. I mean if a bloke can’t do it he can’t do it can he? I mean hell. Bloody hell fire. We had one or two more trips but like Karlsruhe that was ruddy electric storms from the time we went in 'till we left the French coast and they lost a hell of a lot then because planes were coming out all over the place and they blamed, they said it was the Met trouble, Met men, Met men, they always got the blame. Oh dear anyway that’s going back a long way now. All that.
BW: And this same Irish air gunner was demoted to airman. Did he stay on the base or did you hear of him again?
CG: I didn’t hear about him again. Maybe he was, I guess he would have been posted somewhere. Yeah. He wouldn’t stay, I don’t think he would stay on the station. They wouldn’t allow that I don’t think unless they were that ruddy cruel but I know they marched him off and that was it. Yeah.
BW: And as a gunner did you see many aircraft or em flak shells come your way at all? I mean were there –
CG: Oh we got –
BW: Instances where you were let’s say fully occupied in your job.
CG: We got shrapnel marks when we got back. Yeah. We got caught in searchlights on one but Mitch did a ruddy quick dive and we got out of that but there was always ruddy flak going up all over the place and you had to keep your eyes open for ruddy fighters. But I don’t know whether to tell you, I don’t know, on our third or fourth trip we’d done our bombing and Mitch says to Corkie, the navigator, ‘right, Corkie, give us a course for home now. We want to get back quick,’ So, Corkie, the navigator said, he said, ‘I’m sorry Mitch,’ he said, ‘I’ve lost, I’ve lost track.’ ‘Sodding hell,’ he said, Mitch said, ‘well find it as soon as you can.’ So, well he said, ‘keep going. Look out for any landmarks you might see.’ This is pitch black. Landmarks. We went on for about two or three minutes. All of a sudden the bomb aimer, who was sat in the front, he said, ‘hey Mitch, what’s all those lights in front?’ So of course I moved my turret to have a look and it was bloody lights. Electric. So Corkie the navigator said, ‘oh I’ve got it now,’ he said, ‘the lights. They’re good.’ He said, ‘that’s Switzerland.’ So Mitch said, ‘that’s what?' He said, ‘that’s Switzerland. We can take, we can take a plot from there.’ So Mitch said, ‘Wait a minute,’ he said, ‘that’s Switzerland. We can land there and get interned for the rest of the war. What do you think lads?’ He said, ‘I’ll put it to the vote. We can, if you want we can go down, get interned, finished for the war or we can get back, try and get back. What do you want to do?’ And we all said, ‘let’s try and get back Mitch.’ And that was it. Yeah. The lights. I remember turning my turret to look. I thought bloody hell where’s that then I thought, didn’t think it was ruddy Switzerland. Yeah. And then we had a job getting back then because of the ruddy petrol. By the time we got back Mitch gave us the object that, ‘do you want to bail out? I don’t know whether we’re going to make the Channel.’ ‘No we’re staying’ and just before we got to the Channel he said, ‘I’m telling you now we may have to ditch and get into a dinghy. So I’m giving you the option to bail out or stay in.’ ‘Oh we’ll stay in Mitch.’ We got across and as we got, as we crossed the coast Mitch told the wireless operator to call up on the wireless the nearest ‘drome. We’ve got to land. Emergency. Must land right away which we did and we got a call, oh I can’t remember that now, we got a call and we came in. We landed and when we got in the chap who took us in at the end he came and told us afterwards, he said, ‘you didn’t have much petrol left lads,’ he said. Yeah.
BW: That was a good decision though.
CG: Yeah. They all come back. It all comes back don’t it?
BW: Yeah.
CG: Bloody hell. You’ll never get, I’ll have to give you bed and breakfast the way we’re going.
BW: And so coming, coming out over the coast you’d obviously had the -
CG: [?] trips.
BW: The double hazard of flak ships and -
CG: The what?
BW: Coastal batteries. Coming out over the coast of France you’d have the double hazard because you’d have the coastal batteries.
CG: Oh yeah that were oh they were there.
BW: The flak ships and the channel.
CG: Yeah they were still following yeah. Yeah. By the way I didn’t mention that me Legion of, not Legion of honour. Me, what do they call it when you get from the king and queen from the king, signed it. The citation.
BW: Yes.
CG: My citation for my DFC. Have you seen it?
BW: No.
CG: Well it’s there if you want to see it.
BW: Okay. We’ll have, we’ll have a look in a, in a minute or two.
CG: Yeah.
BW: If that’s okay.
CG: Yeah. Carry on. Sorry.
BW: That’s alright. So this would now have been early ‘44 when you were part way through your tour. And -
CG: I finished my tour then, ’44.
BW: And so were you involved in missions in the run up to D-Day? There was a -
CG: Oh yes we did D-Day.
BW: Change, change in Bomber Command tactics there.
CG: Went over on D-Day because as we were coming back you could see them going across, the lads, the ships. The navy, the, whatever they were navy, navy, the boarding ships, you know.
BW: Yeah landing, landing, landing craft.
CG: They were going across as we were coming back.
BW: And so was that early morning? Very early morning.
CG: Well it tells you what time. What time did we land? Or take off and land. It gives –
BW: Ok. Let’s have a look just further through it’s -
CG: June ‘44 wasn’t it?
BW: Yes.
CG: That would be 429 Squadron.
BW: Quite a few night ops in the Ruhr Valley and then -
CG: 429 Squadron it would be.
BW: That’s right. Now this is interesting because you, it says here on the 5th of June.
CG: June, that’s it.
BW: A night operation taking off at 22.34.
CG: That’s it.
BW: In U-Uncle and your operation was to Merville Franceville, it says here.
CG: That would have been one of the, one of the places just, just over past over the beach I should think. I don’t know. I can’t remember now.
BW: Yeah that that sounds about right. They were quite common to be hitting targets just inland.
CG: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Of where the beachhead was supposed to be. Did you, were you told in advance that this was in support of D-Day? Did you know the invasion -
CG: Oh no we were just going. Yeah. Nobody said anything about that. We just, not as far as I can remember anyway. No. No. It mean it was over seventy years ago.
BW: Sometimes you might -
CG: Yeah they do, they stick.
BW: Crews might have -
CG: Yeah they do.
BW: Might have had an inkling that this was for the invasion.
CG: Yeah we did.
BW: Sometimes.
CG: Because when we were coming back like I say Mitch, Mitch made some remark about, ‘hey lads, there’s the lads going across. The invasion.’ So they must have said something. Oh I don’t know. I can’t remember now. Not to be honest but you could see all the ships, all the barges going across yeah. Could look down, we could see them going down as you looked down.
BW: And when you realised that was the invasion -
CG: Yeah.
BW: How did that feel?
CG: Yeah and when we got back of course we knew. Everybody knew then.
BW: How did that feel? To look down on the armada.
CG: Yeah I thought oh hell the lads, you know, going across there. I mean they went through a hell of a lot didn’t they? Landed in France first off. We’d been over obviously I think to, to soften some of the targets up beyond. Yeah [pause] no.
BW: And then moving on to mid ’44. When did you finish your first tour? It looks, looks like it was -
CG: It would have been just after D-Day was it?
BW: July.
CG: ‘44
BW: Let’s have a look.
CG: D-Day was ‘44. Yeah.
BW: That’s right. Completion of tour July 9th ‘44 and you’d flown 34 trips.
CG: That’s it. That’s when we -
BW: Thirty four ops.
CG: Finished. End of tour ‘cause we did thirty and we thought we’d finished and when Mitch went to report back, he came back, he said ‘they want us to carry on ‘cause they’re short of crews.’ So we thought oh hell ‘cause we thought we’d finished the thirty. Thirty was a tour. So anyway we did go on. We said, ‘alright.’ Carried on. We did four more and then we got back he was called back in again. He said, ‘you’re finished. That’s it.’ And that was it. Until they called me up again. They sent for me end of ‘44 wasn’t it? That’s it. End of ’44.
BW: And so did you, did Mitch ask the crew to vote again whether they wanted to continue with the other four trips or was it just -
CG: Oh no. As far as I remember now we were waiting by the, by the aircraft waiting for Mitch to come back because he had to report, they had to report and he came back. He said, ‘sorry,’ something about, ‘oh lads. They’re short of crews and they want us to carry on for a bit. Just a few.’ So, well everybody said, ‘yeah, alright.’ So we did four more and then when we got from there we, you got, he had to go back and he came back and he said, ‘that’s it lads. We’ve, end of tour.’ Yay. End of the tour. That was it.
BW: Did you go out and celebrate?
CG: I think we did yeah. At that time oh blimey yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then from then I was just playing, mucking about on the station doing anything, you know. Going in the mess, having a cup of coffee and all that until they sent me on my indefinite leave and I was home, oh weeks of indefinite leave. I was home. Great. And then towards the end of ‘44 I got this telegram. Oh that’s only a thing. A telegram saying, ‘go to your local police station. Pick up a railway warrant for RAF Feltwell.’ And I remember saying to my dad, I said to me dad, ‘where the hell is Feltwell, dad? He said, ‘I don’t know.’ He said, ‘we’ll go, I’ll come with you. We’ll go to the police station.’ So we went down one evening down the police station oh yeah, looked up some books. It’s, it’s where it is. I don’t know where it is now. Is it Cambridgeshire or something, is it?
BW: Yes.
CG: Yes. So I said, he said, ‘well what’s on there then?’ I said, ‘I don’t know.’ I said, ‘I’ve just got to report,’ I said, thinking it was a ground job but when I got there it was this. It was about, I don’t know it was a hell of a lot. About twenty I think. All in the same boat and we’d all, everybody had done one tour and when it came out that they wanted us to man a point five gun in, in a plane, in the Lanc 'cause we were all up in arms what about all these people, bloody people, all these blokes teaching everything. Gunnery leaders. No they want somebody who’s done a tour. All that bloody rubbish you know. So we had to go on a course. We went on a course. I don’t know how long it was. Two or three weeks. Something like that. So had somebody showing us how to take the point five because it was a bigger, bigger gun. Taking it on. Seven hundred and fifty rounds a minute it fired. How to take it together, how to put it up together you know they showed us all that and we never had to do any armouring with it but then they came around after, looking for, oh no we’d had our leave, and they said, on the Tuesday they came and said, ‘right you’re going to your squadrons today lads,’ and there was two to a squadron. This fella, the funny fluke the same fella I knew at 429. Him and I went to 75 Squadron. I went on one flight and he went on the other flight and there were only us two who were going on this but the others went to other squadrons of course. Yeah, and that was it and we had to carry on.
BW: Just out of interest you mentioned before when you were in the Halifax you were on 303 guns.
CG: On what, sorry?
BW: When you were on the Halifax you were on flying and using 303 Brownings and then in the Lancaster you used just two, point five inch -
CG: Oh yeah on a on a -
BW: Heavy machine guns.
CG: On a Halifax I had four 303s. One thousand one hundred and fifty rounds a minute. And then I went, when I went on [79] I just had the one. The big one though.
BW: Yeah. Faster. Yeah.
CG: Like the American things.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Similar to that. Seven hundred and fifty a minute.
BW: How did you find them in terms of using them?
CG: Oh different altogether.
BW: Were they more powerful and -
CG: Oh yes stronger. The, what’s its name?
BW: Point five.
CG: The small one had a range of three hundred yards. I can’t remember now on the big one but it had a ruddy big bullet like that.
BW: Yeah. About twelve inch long.
CG: Yeah.
BW: And -
CG: But –
BW: Sorry go on.
CG: All I, all I had was a hole in the floor, you know. I had a chair if I wanted but I’m not being ruddy brave but you couldn’t see much. I had to get down. I should get down and look. Look. Look like that see.
BW: Lean forward.
CG: See if anybody was there. Coming off the seat now. I couldn’t do it now.
BW: Now this is interesting because I’ve seen the term and you’ve used it yourself as a mid under gunner on a Lancaster and can you just describe what that entailed?
CG: What a mid under gunner?
BW: Mid under gunner yeah because we normally think of Lancasters as just having the front, rear and mid upper.
CG: No.
BW: But this is a position actually on the underside the aircraft.
CG: Originally it was what they called the H2S, it was the navigation thing. I don’t know whether you’ve ever heard of it and it helped the navigator and bomb aimer. It was, it was underneath, in between, do you know where it is? Was?
BW: Yes. Yes.
CG: Well they took that out, took all that and just put the gun in. That’s all and I was sat there by the hole with a point five.
BW: Just a single point five calibre -
CG: Yes.
BW: Gun.
CG: Just one. You could swing it around, you could move it of course.
BW: Okay.
CG: Yeah oh yeah. Nothing else. Yeah.
BW: So this wasn’t like the ball turret on a Flying Fortress where you were actually belted in to it and able to swivel.
CG: Oh no I wasn’t belted in. No.
BW: You were just sat around the -
CG: I sat on the chair.
BW: Turret with a hole yeah.
CG: Yeah.
BW: And pointing the gun underneath.
CG: That’s it.
BW: But you had -
CG: Just looking at -
BW: You had to crouch forward to look -
CG: I did, yeah.
BW: Through the hole.
CG: Yeah I did because -
BW: To see the target.
CG: I was sat like that. They was like that but I preferred to get down and get, I know it’s self-preservation but really you get down by the, I used to look like this. Yeah. I was plugged in.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Electric suit and all that.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Thank goodness. And yeah you could see it back like that. You can imagine a hole.
BW: Yeah.
CG: You get down you can see better can’t you?
BW: Sort of probably leaning forward.
CG: Yeah.
BW: You didn’t lie down. You perhaps knelt or crouched.
CG: Sorry?
BW: You didn’t lie down in the, in the Lancaster.
CG: Well I knelt down mainly.
BW: Yeah.
CG: But I leaned across.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Knelt down and leaned to look at one side.
BW: Yeah.
CG: And whatever, whichever I wanted to keep an eye out.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Keep a lookout.
BW: That’s interesting. That is interesting.
CG: I mean, I suppose every gunner had a, did what they wanted but that was the best way I could think of because I could hold the guns at the same time and swing it round look down, get down, then bring it down. See. Point the gun at where ever I was looking at so if I did see anybody I could, there you are.
BW: And that must have been quite an uncomfortable position I suppose.
CG: It was really yeah it was yeah. I mean you had all your flying kit on. Mae West and all the, all the harness, you know, for your chute and your chute by the side of you. Yeah it was really but if I was, there again self-preservation you do what you can can’t you? Everybody was doing their bit sort of thing. The rear gunner was there. Mid upper. So we had eight in a crew then.
BW: I was just going to say because -
CG: Yeah.
BW: The normal compliment as -
CG: Yeah.
BW: You said is seven.
CG: That’s right.
BW: And with the mid under you were the eighth.
CG: Yeah but I know it sounded you had to do. You had two choices put the seat there like this. Then you had the, you would have to bend down and look down and then.
BW: Yeah.
CG: And look like that.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Bloody bloke could be there before you knew where you were.
BW: Yeah.
CG: So -
BW: You couldn’t see properly.
CG: No. You couldn’t.
BW: When you were sat on the little seat.
CG: You couldn’t see much. You could only see -
BW: Yeah.
CG: So far but when I got down on my knees if you like.
BW: Yeah.
CG: And stretched you could see right back.
BW: Yeah.
CG: You could see if anybody was coming. ‘Cause I mean it would be in and out in no time. A fighter. A Messerschmitt or Focke Wulf.
BW: And did any of them try it?
CG: Sorry?
BW: Did any of them try it?
CG: No. Thank goodness. Oh bloody hell, thank goodness. Oh no. Oh dear.
BW: And I believe you flew the first three missions with 75 Squadron with Bill Mallon.
CG: Come again.
BW: I believe you flew your first three operations with a pilot called Bill Mallon.
CG: Oh I couldn’t, I can’t remember now. I had different pilots every time at Mepal. Yeah. You see, I was on L for London. That was the one. When that flew I flew but if it wasn’t on that night I wasn’t on. It was as easy that. So whichever crew came out, it was, well I didn’t have far to go. Only across the road to the runway from where I was, where the mess was and I was lucky. All I had to do was walk from here across the road and I was there. So -
BW: Literally less than a hundred yards presumably.
CG: Yeah. Near. I never knew unless I went in to, well I did go in to briefing but I never knew who the crew was because there were so many and there’d be seven and they’d always sit together and I was kind of odd man out if you like because I didn’t have a proper crew so I went out to the plane and when I went out I watched to see who was walking towards L for London and I thought well that’s them.
BW: And was that because there were relatively few aircraft with an under gun?
CG: Yeah. Only two on our squadron. Now there was other squadrons because when we went out that morning to go to our various squadrons there was only two that got off for Mepal. That was me and Taffy. Taffy Duggan. Now the others were left, others stayed in, stayed in the van and they went off to whatever squadrons they were going to in the group I should think as far as I know. If I can remember as well. There’s only two got on our squadron. One, one for each flight.
BW: And was Taffy with you on 429?
CG: Sorry?
BW: Was Taffy with you on 429?
CG: Well, he was, he was with another crew.
BW: I see.
CG: He was in –
BW: Okay.
CG: 429, yeah 429 squadron but he had another crew.
BW: Yes.
CG: Flew with another crew. Yeah.
BW: And so there were just the two of you taken from 429, posted to 75.
CG: Well we weren’t taken from it we -
BW: Sorry you completed your tour. Yes.
CG: We finished our tour there so we were.
BW: Yes. Yeah.
CG: Written off then. Finished.
BW: Yeah.
CG: But he must have got the telegram same time as I got mine to report to Feltwell.
BW: Yes.
CG: And all that, yeah.
BW: Yeah. Sorry that was my misuse of words I said taken but obviously you’d finished your tour and went to 75.
CG: Yeah and when we went we got detailed for Mepal. Both of us. But as I say he went on one flight. I can’t remember the flight now. A or B and I went on the other one. And his was, mine was L for London and his was M for Mother.
BW: And you’d flown previously with a Canadian Squadron and 75 Squadron was actually a New Zealand squadron.
CG: New Zealand. That’s right. Yeah.
BW: So you never really flew -
CG: Quite a few like that.
BW: With an RAF Squadron did you?
CG: Yeah, yeah different, different ones, you know. South Africans I think and as far as I know. I don’t know about that though.
BW: So by this time in late ‘44 and early ‘45 what were your missions like at this time? Were there more daylight missions as opposed to night?
CG: Well, it tells you in the book. Nights and days. If, whatever, whatever is in red is night. Whatever is in blue or black is daylight.
BW: Okay. So -
CG: If it says DNO, DNC duty carried out. Or if it’s DNCO duty not carried out. There must have been something wrong. We got a bit of bother or something.
BW: Okay. And so -
CG: But all in red was night trips. All in other colours blue or whatever, black, is daylight.
BW: Yeah. So you got a couple of night raids here. One Hohenasperg [?]
CG: Where?
BW: Hernburg.
CG: Oh I can’t see I can’t see sorry.
BW: At the top there. It looks like H O E N
CG: OPS. Ops to oh I don’t know. I can’t pronounce that myself. It took four and a half, five hours near enough. It doesn’t say what it was does it? Oh Zinzan, I remember him. Yeah, I do remember that name. Ops to, it would be, it would be Belgium somewhere Dutch I think. I don’t know. Sorry I can't.
BW: That’s okay. No problem.
CG: I don’t know where that is.
BW: But there’s a few into Germany in, in February and most of them moving in to March and exactly seventy one years ago there are towns like Salzbergen, [?], Gelsenkirchen, Essen, Munster, Ham. They’re all daylight raids.
CG: Were they? I can’t remember now. Yeah, if they’re in, if it says DNCO, it’s in red.
BW: Yeah.
CG: It’s a night trip. Any other colour it’s a day trip.
BW: Yeah, that’s right.
CG: 429 we did mainly nights. At 75 mainly days I think. Yeah.
BW: That’s right. Did you sense the war was coming to an end at this point?
CG: Well we knew the lads were doing well but we didn’t know. No, didn’t. You know, well I didn’t know. No. I mean they were advancing well and the Russians, the Russians were doing their bit so it was getting towards that way yeah. Must have thought that. Yeah. Must have done.
BW: And you mentioned that your Lanc had done quite a number of missions. Did you get, did it get to a hundred?
CG: What the plane? Oh I don’t know. We, when I left it was still, still working. Yeah. But the war was over then when I left. Oh yeah. The war was over when I left wasn’t it? Near enough. I left in er -
BW: Can you describe how it, how you heard about the end of the war and what it felt like?
CG: Oh yeah.
BW: And how it felt like.
CG: Because we were in a big group when I got back from a trip we were in a big group talking and they said the war’s nearly over, almost over. Nearly over. And the gunnery, I got a message, ‘the gunnery leader wants to see you Chas.’ And I thought, ‘Oh ruddy hell what’s happened. I haven’t done anything.’ First thing on my mind. And when I went in he said, ‘you’re finished. I’ve just got, I’ve got a message from Group,’ he said from here. Here you are, he said, ‘you’re finished.’ I said, ‘What do you mean finished?’ ‘No more. No more. You’re finished. In fact, I want, there’s only one trip to do. Wingco is going to deliver food to The Hague but don’t forget it’s not been signed yet,’ that was it. Yeah. ‘It’s not been signed yet and - ‘
BW: So -
CG: ‘So don’t, so keep your guns on safe.’ I remember this, ‘keep your guns on safe but keep an eye out because there might still be some Nazis still flying around ‘cause the treaty’s not been signed. The war’s still on.’ So I said, ‘right.’ And that’s the only, I disobeyed him then because I thought if there’s going to be some ruddy stupid Nazi walking, running about I’m having my guns ready. So I turned them on ready. Blow that game I thought and then when we got over to The Hague and they were all waving I just lifted my guns up like that to get out of the way just in case but no. Nobody came and then when we got back within a few days, three or four days, a week perhaps war finished hadn’t it? War finished on June the 5th was it?
BW: May 8th.
CG: Something like that.
BW: Yeah.
CG: It will tell you there when, the date of my last trip. It took, what day was my last trip? It would be that Hague thing yeah.
BW: Just having a look here. So, yes, now this is the 7th of May.
CG: Yeah that’s it.
BW: In Lancaster R.
CG: R?
BW: And -
CG: What? At Mepal?
BW: Yes. It’s got Lancaster R on the -
CG: Can I have a look?
BW: Yes. Certainly.
[pause]
CG: Oh yes, the wing commander. That’s it. Yeah. That was that. Yeah. Just before I finished. About a month before the war finished. Before the war finished wasn’t it. And Tugwell called me in, he said ‘will you do one more trip'. That’s when he said about me finishing. I said, ‘what is it?’ He said, ‘the Wingco’s going to drop some food over The Hague.’ That’s when he told me to keep watch, watch for the Germans coming around and he, yeah, that’s it. So the war finished about a month after wasn’t it?
BW: It would be a day after.
CG: Oh day after.
BW: Yeah.
CG: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
BW: But this was Operation Manna I believe which was dropping food to the starving Dutch.
CG: Come again.
BW: I said this would be Operation Manna which was dropping food supplies to the Dutch.
CG: Yeah that’s right. Dropping food for The Hague.
BW: Yeah.
CG: What date was that? That was just before the war finished.
BW: Yeah 7th of May -
CG: That’s it.
BW: You’ve got there.
CG: That’s what I thought that’s made my 50th trip [pause]. Then that was it then I think. No more.
MW: Yeah. It says here completion of tour, second tour June 10th 1945 and you’d done fifteen and a third trips it says.
CG: When did I finish?
BW: 10th of June 1945.
CG: Yeah. June. That would be it then. That’s what. Yeah.
BW: What was the wing commander’s name? It’s spelt B A I G E N T . How do you pronounce it? Is it Baigent?
CG: Oh I remember him yeah. Baigent I think it was. Baigent. Wing Commander Baigent. B A I G E N T. That’s it.
BW: And you could see, on that trip you could see all the people.
CG: On the top waving. Waving.
BW: Waving.
CG: ‘Cause we were dropping food. Yeah. And the whole country was a mass of water. The Germans had opened the dams and flooded the country. Yeah. I could see that. It was just like the ruddy ocean it was. Full of water. I thought bloody hell and they were on top of this building. The Hague I think it was. Going ruddy mad waving. Dropped food for them. Bloody hell. Aye a long time now and they’re still ruddy arguing, fighting somewhere or other aren’t they? Ruddy hell.
BW: But the Dutch really appreciated that from you know from all records the Dutch really appreciated-
CG: Oh the Dutch did.
BW: The food.
CG: We keep on hearing about that yeah. Yeah, the Dutch, yeah they did. Oh they were great.
BW: Do you keep in touch with any of your former crewmates?
CG: Well I used to write to them and everything. Speak to them. But unfortunately they’ve all, all died but I still, I still keep in touch with the pilot, Mitch, his wife because she, she’d, they married in Dagenham. Ilford, Essex and we went to their wedding and believe it or not the bloody doodlebug came over. Went on though thank goodness. But she went back with him to Canada but we still keep in touch but he passed away I’m afraid. And I used to keep in touch with Bill Lawrence’s wife but I haven’t heard from her from ages so I don’t know.
BW: You mentioned a guy called Zinzan.
CG: Who?
BW: Zinzan. The New Zealander.
CG: Oh he was a pilot. Yeah. The name came back to me then. Zinzan yeah.
BW: What do you recall about him?
CG: Just he was a pilot that’s all. But I have, I have heard of another interesting thing but with all this was going on I didn’t intend this it’s only because where I go of a morning for a coffee there’s a bloke there who was in the army and he had one of these things. I don’t know. Not a tape recorder. Not -
BW: A smartphone.
CG: It could be, it could pick up anything anywhere and anything. He said to me one morning, ‘you were in the RAF Charles weren’t you? I said, ‘yeah.’ He said, ‘what squadron were you in?’ I said, ‘429, 75.’ He said, ‘do you ever get newsletters?’ I said, ‘no they wouldn’t have, they wouldn’t have a news place over here.’ I said, ‘they would have one in Canada and New Zealand.’ Anyway, he fiddled with this. He came back five minutes later. He said, ‘they have one in Scampton.’ So I said, ‘oh bloody hell.’ He said, ‘anyway, I’ve asked them to send you one in time.’ So I said, ‘right. Oh very good.’ So what was we on about first off? It’s gone.
BW: We were talking about Zinzan. The pilot that you knew. Zinzan.
CG: Oh yes.
BW: And you were keeping in touch with Mitch and –
CG: Another chap got on the phone to me. I said, ‘who is it?’ He said he lives in Sheffield. I said, ‘well what about it?’ He said, ‘well he’s telling me', I said, ‘what do you mean he’s telling you?’ ‘On this,’ he said. ‘He’s telling me that, he’s got your name down in his father’s logbook.’ I said, ‘come on, you’re having me on somewhere here.’ He said, ‘no,’ he said. Anyway to cut a long story short he said, ‘can I give you his name?’ I said, ‘yes.’ He said, ‘he wants to be in touch.’ Which he did. He’s writing a book and he wanted to have a word with me about, can I mention my name in his book he said because his father was an engineer on one of the planes that I was ‘cause it’s in his logbook.
BW: That’s right. His name’s Bob Jay.
CG: Who?
BW: Bob Jay.
CG: Oh well sod me. And do you know where he lives?
BW: I don’t know where he lives but I have -
CG: You ain’t got his address?
BW: I can, I can probably get it but he has a website up for 75 Squadron.
CG: Oh has he, has he been in touch with you then?
BW: Well no that, we haven’t been in touch but I found his website.
CG: Oh I don’t know about them. Yeah.
BW: Which is basically -
CG: Yeah I’ll leave it to you.
BW: A site for where all these experiences are logged and he mentions -
CG: Yeah.
BW: Exactly like you say his father is the flight engineer called Bob Jay and you flew your first three trips with that crew.
[doorbell rings]
CG: Oh there’s somebody at the ruddy door. Just a second.
BW: Alright.
CG: I thought I saw somebody walking up there.
BW: I’ll just pause the recording while we’re doing that.
CG: Oh dear me.
[recorder pause]
BW: What I’m just going to show you here is a list of the crew which were in your first aircraft for your first three trips and this is the pilot Bill Mallon.
CG: Where? Oh -
BW: On the top here.
CG: Is that him there?
BW: That’s him there.
CG: Oh blow me.
BW: And that is Bob Jay the flight engineer you mentioned, that picture there.
CG: Oh sod, blow me.
BW: And that is, that is his description.
CG: Where?
BW: This line here.
CG: Sergeant Robert ‘Bob’ Alfred Jay. Yeah. Mid upper gunner. Who was the mid upper gunner then? Sergeant Doug Cook. Flying officer, oh dear. He got me wrong number down hasn’t he. He’s got 187. No. 178730 that’s right. Sorry. Flew first three ops with, yeah, oh blow me. Yes.
BW: So -
CG: He got on to me on the 'phone and he said could he, could he do this and write and I said yeah.
BW: There’s quite a lot of information about 75 Squadron.
CG: Yeah.
BW: On the internet where this relative of Bob’s has put all the information. Where he’s put his website.
CG: Yeah.
BW: There’s a lot of information about 75 squadron and so that’s where your name appears as well as part of the crew list.
CG: Yeah. Blow me. It’s funny that.
BW: So -
CG: Yeah oh we had a chat ‘cause he had one or two things ‘cause he was writing a book but he’s got, he’s got my marriage wrong. I married in ‘49 not ‘47. He got me number wrong.
BW: Right.
CG: And he got my rank wrong so I want to get, so can you give me his 'phone number then?
BW: I don’t have it with me.
CG: Oh.
BW: But what I’ll do I’ll have a look over the next few days at the website.
CG: Yes.
BW: And I’ll get in touch with him. If I can’t see his phone number or contact details on the internet I will get in touch with him and I’ll ask him to contact you.
CG: Yeah.
BW: If that’s alright.
CG: Okay then. Please.
BW: So it’ll take a few days but I’ll ask him to get in touch with you.
CG: Oh yeah. Yeah. I appreciate what you’re doing.
BW: That’s okay.
CG: Yeah.
BW: And, and that should sort him out for you really. So apart from that we’ve now got to the end of your second tour and you’ve finished at the end of the war.
CG: Yeah.
BW: What then happened after that? Were you waiting to be demobbed?
CG: No.
BW: Or –
CG: No. Let me think now. 1945 wasn’t it? No, I went to, I went on, no I went to Hereford, admin course and that’s where I learned, a chap came up to me a mate what was there said, ‘hey you got a gong.’ I said, ‘what do you mean I got a gong?’ That’s when I, he said, oh no it wasn’t that mate. No, no I got a letter from my parents, that’s it. No. He said, ‘come on.’ he said, ‘you live in Dagenham don’t you?’ I said, ‘yeah.’ He said, ‘I live in Chadwell Heath.’ He said, ‘I’m going home for a couple of days now we’ve, do you want a lift?’ I said, ‘brilliant.’ So I put the letter in my pocket and when I got in the car going home, opened the letter, it said, ‘you’ve got the DFC.’ It was in the local paper and I didn’t know anything about it. I thought 'oh sod me what have I got that for', blah blah you think to yourself and that was it. Then ‘cause we had the Christmas off I think it was, something like that. And we went, he picked me up in Dagenham again, went back to the course and that’s where I finished up going on ground duties. Adjutant, assistant adjutant and all that business and I finished up at Padgate as a flight commander training recruits that was the main thing. The adjutant thing was only a couple of weeks to give someone leave but other than that I was knocking about leave and all that and then they sent me to, I was at Coningsby wasn’t I? At Coningsby interviewing these army, navy whatever about medals. I had a long list of what you, what you’re entitled to and what not. Did that. I went to Padgate, well I told that. Where I used to meet then Marge yeah and then training recruits and that’s where I finished up. Got demobbed then. Eventually.
BW: And when you left the RAF what happened then?
CG: Well I went, I lived I lived in London, Essex and Marge lived in Sheffield and I thought shame ‘cause we were both getting on well together. So she said, ‘you can come and live here if you want.’ She said for, nothing like that what you’re thinking.
BW: No. No. No. No.
CG: Nothing like that.
BW: No. I know what you mean.
CG: So, they only had a small cottage that was falling to bits. To cut a long story short they boarded it upstairs so separate rooms and parents and all of us so we lived like that for a while. So, depending on a date was the 20th, 30th no 31st of April 19....., April that was it 31st of April 1949 and we got, we got married then.
BW: And what happened to you career wise after that? Where did you work?
CG: I got a job at that, that was another piece of luck, have you got time? Well I thought when I got there I was at Sheffield I thought sodding hell what am I going to, I’m halfway through an apprenticeship, wartime. So I went down to see me parents my father, me parents and he said, ‘well,‘ he said, ‘I don’t know what you'll do.’ He said, ‘you’re tied. Tied to Dennis Truscott. He’s opened the, I know the firm got bombed but he opened a small one now’. So he said, ‘go and have a word with him.’ So I went down, went to London to Dennis Truscott, explained it all, ‘well,’ he said, ‘Well if you want to break the apprenticeship you can. Wartime,’ he said. 'Wartime'. 'Being wartime'. He said, ‘you’d have been finished by now.’ So he said, ‘yes. if you get, get somebody to, where you’re going to live to take it on.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘right.’ So I did that. So I went back, told Marge. So that was great. So I said yes. I’ve got to find somewhere now here to take me on printing. So he said, so I went to the, I went to the employment exchange as it was then and the chap said, ‘well there is an interrupted apprenticeship scheme.’ So I said, ‘oh can I go into that?’ He said 'yes.' Anyway to cut a long story short he put me on to the union, he got me to the, on to the union. He put me down, put me down for interrupted apprenticeship scheme. It was on the war thing, it was, carried on after the war for so many years. He put me on to the name of the union official so I went to see him. So I explained it all to him. He said, ‘oh blow me. I don’t know. I don’t know who could take you on.’ He said, ‘I’ll tell you what,’ he said, I’ll ring up so and so. He’s the runs the newspaper, The Star, The Sheffield Star which he did. So he said, ‘yes, he’ll have a word with you.’ So I went down to see, Mr Bloomfield, it was, manager, and when I went into his office he had a RAF tie on. I thought cracker. So he said, ‘yeah I think we can,’ and I got my interrupted apprenticeship scheme and got it there so I started at The Star and then but about twelve months later they said they were going to move. They were going to Stockport and I thought 'oh no.' Well I went home and said to Marge, ‘Marge they’re going to Stockport.’ ‘Oh I don’t want to go there.’ So I went back. While I was there I was general print then. General print. So I thought I wonder if I’d get into other newspapers, so I asked for permission, asked to see one of the other managers of other newspapers so he said funny thing, he said, ‘we want someone, yeah.’ And that was it I got into newspapers and The Star at Sheffield.
BW: How long were you there?
CG: From 1960 when we moved across to, no, hang on a minute. No, no, no, no, no, no. Sorry. Oh dear. War finished. It would have January or something 1949 wouldn’t it? I was demobbed in 1949 wasn't I. No I can’t remember. I was married in ‘49. I was demobbed in ‘47 wasn’t it? ‘47. Went all through that, got the job at The Star. We came here on holiday, got fixed up with a house.
BW: And this is Poulton.
CG: Yeah.
BW: Where you came on holiday.
CG: We got fixed up with the house and I remember saying to Marge, ‘there’s only one other thing Marge.’ She said, ‘what’s that?’ What’s that? ‘I’ve got to get a job.’ That was it. Yeah. ‘I’ve got to get a job.’ She said, ‘oh hell.’ I said, ‘I’ll go to the local paper. There must be a local paper here.’ I said, ‘I’ll see if they’ve got any vacancies.’ So I went in, in to the local paper but he was, the manager was off for lunch so I went back out again for a coffee and went back again about two o’clock and I remember this, it sticks with you, he said yes lad what, not lad, ‘what can I do for you? What do you want to know?' Something. ‘Well I just called in to see you want any, have you got any vacancies?’ So he said, ‘well what, what do you do?’ I said, ‘I’m a rotary printer.’ ‘Blow me,’ he said, like that. He said, ‘you must be psychic.’ I said, ‘how do you, what do you mean?’ ‘We’re advertising for one. Come with me downstairs,’ so we went downstairs. The machines were running, picked a paper off the thing, opened it up, ‘wanted: newspaper printer’. He said, ‘we’ll go upstairs, we’ll have a chat, if we’re in agreement the job’s yours,’ he said but I said, ‘wait a minute. I’m on holiday.’ I said, ‘I can’t stay.’ ‘Don’t worry about that. Whatever you’re doing now, job, you’ll have to give notice.’ I said, ‘yes. A fortnight.’ He said, ‘well don’t worry. Doesn’t matter about that. If you want the job it’s yours.’ We had a chat, money and all that and he said, ‘yes the job’s yours.’ He said, ‘all I want you to do now is go home, write me a letter, apply for the job but don’t worry about it, it’s yours, I’m promising it to you. It’s yours,’ he said, ‘apply for it and I return it, the jobs yours and that’s it.’ He said, ‘you tell me what date you’ll be able to start.' So that was it.
BW: Brilliant.
CG: Went back to Sheffield, told Marge. Bloody hell. I couldn’t have, I couldn’t planned it like that.
BW: Yeah just landed lucky.
CG: Just happened like that. Just happened and I went back and in the month, went to the removal people and everything like that, got it all lined up and we came here on her birthday 24th of July.
BW: Wow.
CG: 1960 and when we came in I said, ‘here you are Marge. Birthday present [laugh]. Bloody hell. Honestly, the way it happened. Just like a great big bloody jigsaw falling into place, I got a job.
BW: Yeah.
CG: And everything.
BW: And so -
CG: Amazing.
BW: What was the local paper called here?
CG: Star. No. The Evening Gazette.
BW: The Evening Gazette.
CG: Yeah.
BW: And how long were them for on the prints. The printers.
CG: Oh I was there for 1960 until I retired in ‘84, 1984 yeah. At the time my wife had lost her mum and dad and I thought, ‘84 I was due to retire in ‘86 I think it was and there was a scheme on if you remember because people were out, wanted work or something that you could, you could retire on a full pension and if not it could be made up by the government. I did lose. So I took two years earlier so I could retired at 64 at ’84.
BW: Brilliant.
CG: Everything worked out. It’s funny how it worked out though.
BW: Yeah.
CG: I couldn’t have done it if I'd planned it by bloody blueprint.
BW: But that’s great that’s -
CG: We often spoke about that yeah.
BW: Yeah. Well that’s just what you need isn’t it?
CG: And when we went out the house we went to several. They were ruddy rubbish, you know, toilets in the kitchen, all that sort of thing and then we came up here, ‘oh great, Marge.’ Well that was it then.
BW: And you’ve been here ever since.
CG: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: How have you kept in touch with Bomber Command? How do you feel about the sort of commemorations?
CG: Well I belonged to the air crew ACRC, was it? Air crew.
BW: AC.
CG: You know, the club. Air crew club.
BW: Air crew association.
CG: And the bomber, Air Gunners Society. I used to have that. I belonged to that mainly but they went defunct. They must have done because I haven’t heard anything. Must be getting on I guess and that would be about it.
BW: How do you, how do you rate the sort of recent commemorations of Bomber Command effort looking back at it?
CG: Well I, I never kept in touch. I should have done. I would have like to have done when the aircrew thing went I thought well that must not be going then but I never got any, I never heard any, never had any gen, information about it. Only the air gunners I used to get a journal every, every couple of months. Kept in touch. And for a while we belonged to a club. Yeah we used to go, belong to the air crew club. Used to go along to the hotels on Blackpool every so often. I bought a ticket for a raffle and what did I buy, what did I win? A bloody big picture like that of a Lancaster. Bloody hellfire. It’s up in the spare room now on the wall. Oh dear.
BW: Are you, are you pleased that Bomber Command is being commemorated and remembered these days?
CG: Have I been to any? Oh no.
BW: Are you pleased that Bomber Command is being remembered these days?
CG: I’m sorry I didn’t get it again.
BW: Are you pleased that Bomber Command is being remembered these days?
CG: Oh yes. Oh definitely yes they should. Bomber leader Harris did a good job I think. Yeah, I know what people say but he was only working on orders from Mr Churchill and all that business because Churchill went to see the Russian leader if you, I don’t know whether you know and Russia he was telling Churchill about not doing something and Churchill said we’ll bomb this and bomb that which we did and came back and yet there was all that trouble over Dresden. All they had to do was call it an open city and they wouldn’t have got bombed would it? And we heard there was, read since that they were passing troops through there and there were POWs working there as well. So it wasn’t an open city as such but if they’d have called it an open city it would never have been bombed and Harris was only doing what he was told. Bomb these ruddy cities. I didn’t go on it anyway. I went -
BW: I was going to say you weren’t on that raid.
CG: I was on the other one. Chemnitz. It was close on nearby. There were two big ones that day. Chemnitz and Dresden but I was on the Chemnitz one. A long trip that if I remember.
BW: Have you been to the memorial at Green Park?
CG: No I haven’t yet, I’d like to go sometime but no. I don’t, I think. Yeah.
BW: But from your point of view you’re glad that Bomber Command is being recognised.
CG: Oh yeah blimey they should have been. Yeah. More so. You know what? Bomber Command. The chap in charge, Harris. He was the only number one leader of all the, of all of them that didn’t get recognised by Churchill and it was wrong that. It was absolutely wrong. What Harris did he was only carrying out orders.
BW: Have you had the opportunity to go to the memorial site that the Bomber Command Centre has begun at Lincoln? At Canwick Hill.
CG: Would I go?
BW: Have you been?
CG: Oh I haven’t. No.
BW: It was unveiled in October last year.
CG: Yeah it would be a great thing that. No. I’ve got, I’ve got two brothers down south. I don’t very often see them now but I can’t see properly and I can’t walk properly. You’re a, you’re a lag on somebody aren’t you when you go? Somebody having to look after you or push you or whatever.
BW: I know what you mean.
CG: No. I generally go, like last year I went down to the memorial in Poulton. Laid a wreath with another chap. We both did it together ‘cause he was in the army on D-Day landings and all that and he got the medal, Croix de Guerre whatever you call it. Yeah.
BW: Yeah because you’ve been awarded that yourself as well. You got the Croix de Guerre and that’s, that’s quite a high honour -
CG: Oh yeah.
BW: From France, you know. So very good. I think that that’s all the questions that I have for you.
CG: Well I haven’t minded. I don’t mind.
BW: So -
CG: Anything I answered, I’ve never answered, anybody answered me I said yes, so and so and that was it. I didn’t think it was going to be all this. I don’t think I would have -
BW: Well that’s alright.
CG: No it’s alright but yeah.
BW: Thank you very much for your time.
CG: No that’s okay I don’t mind. It’s alright. It’s a great but you’re welcome.
BW: So we’ll, we’ll leave it there so thank you very much for again Flying Officer Green for your time and -
CG: Any time if you, yeah.
BW: Your memories for the Bomber Command Centre.
CG: Yeah.
BW: Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Charles Frederick Green
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Wright
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-29
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Janet and Peter McGreevy
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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01:37:24 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AGreenCF160329
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Charles Frederick Green was born in Peckham, London, in 1921. On leaving school he began an apprenticeship with a printing company, acting part-time as a police courier, before becoming an Air Raid Precaution warden. He then volunteered for the Royal Air Force and was accepted for gunnery training in January 1941. He began at Number 2 Gunnery School at RAF Dalcross. He crewed up at 24 Operational Training Unit at RAF Honeybourne, joining a predominantly Canadian crew. After a time at 1664 Heavy Conversion Unit, he was posted to 429 Squadron at RAF Leeming. He began operations at the end of 1943 and completed thirty four operations with 429 Squadron, most to German targets. He was in the crew which had a famous mascot, a Pocahontas doll. After a period of leave, he joined 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal, acting as a mid under gunner in specially-adapted Lancasters. He took part in operations to support the D-Day landings and later in Operation Manna. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. After two tours, he performed ground crew duties at RAF Padgate. After the war he became a printer for a newspaper company in Sheffield. He discusses the matter of lucky charms and superstitions, as well as veterans’ feelings after the war.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cheshire
England--London
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Kiel Canal
1664 HCU
24 OTU
429 Squadron
75 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
Air Raid Precautions
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
civil defence
coping mechanism
Distinguished Flying Cross
H2S
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Croft
RAF Dalcross
RAF Honeybourne
RAF Leeming
RAF Mepal
RAF Padgate
superstition
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/621/8890/PParryHP1609.2.jpg
b7df933b79f45737f7c38a9f7b59ea8c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/621/8890/AParryHP161011.1.mp3
2d504a390d6a64c19871b79350c9f428
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Parry, Hugh
Hugh Pryce Parry
H P Parry
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Parry, HP
Description
An account of the resource
20 items. Two oral history interviews with Hugh Parry (b. 1925, 2220054 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs and newspaper cuttings. Hugh Parry flew operations as an air gunner with 75 Squadron and then as a photographer and air gunner with 90 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Hugh Parry and catalogued by Stuart Bennett.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HP: And then, you want me then to carry on through my life story?
CB: Yeah.
HP: But I can’t, wouldn’t be able to give you the end.
CB: That’s all right.
Other: Haven’t got there yet.
JB: I think we’re quite pleased about that Hugh.
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today we’re with Hugh Parry in Abingdon and the date is the 11th of October 2016 and Hugh’s going to talk about his life and times with the RAF. But what are your earliest recollections of life, Hugh?
HP: Well, I was born in Oswestry on the 22nd May 1925 to Sam and Nora. Sam was the manager of the local furniture shop. A branch of Astins. He had the, a travel gene and he had spent some time in Canada and America. His father before him had spent some time in Australia. And that gene persists in the family to date. I had a sister who was older than me. At the age of five — no — four, I went to Bellan House Preparatory School. Left there at nine, ten and went to Oswestry School which was then Oswestry Grammar School which is the second oldest school in the country founded in 1407. Got my, I was a bit precociously young. Did my school certificate at the age of fifteen and by the contact with my mother’s brother who was the manager of the local Midland Bank got a job with a firm of accountants there. And at the age of sixteen was articled to a chartered accountant. Joined the Air Training Corps and the National Fire Service was part time. In the Air Training Corps I was the youngest of a group of friends who were all going to volunteer and be on a squadron as soon as they possibly could. When they all went and volunteered they all went for PNB. Consequently they all got long deferred service. They were still taking air gunners. Well, being the youngest I went and, initially to Shrewsbury which was a joint recruiting centre for the three services. Moved from there to Birmingham which was for the aircrew medical and volunteered for air gunner. There was a height limit of six feet for air gunners. I made sure, knowing this I made sure I wore baggy trousers because I was slightly over six feet. And I joined the RAF on the twenty fifth anniversary of its formation on the 1st of April 1943 and for call-up at the age of eighteen and a half which duly came in December 1943. And I had to report to the ACRC at St John’s Wood. Well, the usual thing of queuing up for injections and blood tests and the usual introduction to that which baffles brains, and in January got posted to ITW at Bridlington where my principal memory is of PT on the sands without getting the sands wet because the rain came across the North Sea horizontally. But it was not the most comfortable of places. From there moved on to ITW at Bridgnorth in Shropshire and all just totally routine. From there to, [pause] No. We’d been to Bridlington. From there to Bridgnorth. Yes. Bridgnorth we’re at. Elementary Air Gunnery School. And from there to Pembrey on the South Wales coast. Not too far from Llanelli. Then passed out from there on the 1st of July 1944 which was unfortunate because automatic promotions came annually and if I had been told of passing out on the 30th of June I would have got an extra promotion. Sods law. Can’t say. Moved then to Woolfox Lodge. No. I tell a lie. To Westcott. In Buckinghamshire. Not too, not too far from Aylesbury where we were crewed up. There for approximately three months and it was Paddy Goode and his crew. We were an all NCO crew. And on the 7th of October we were posted to aircrew school at Stradishall which was just to keep us out of, out of people’s way until the 28th of October. From there go to 1651 Heavy Conversion Unit at Woolfox Lodge. On the 11th of February 1945 got posted to 75 Squadron at Mepal in Cambridgeshire. 3 Group. Not 5 Group. Repeat. Not 5 Group. On the first operation it was normal for the pilot, skipper, to go as a second dickie with an experienced crew on the first trip. Our CO’s crew were on holiday so he took us on our first trip. His name was Wing Commander Baigent. He was an old man of twenty three at the time. I think he got his DSO when he was with us and he died in 1953. I think that’s what my memory said. It was —
[Loud bells from chiming clock!]
HP: 75 New Zealand Squadron which doesn’t appear on a lot of Bomber Command memorials because it was New Zealand Air Force. We were posted there because there was a shortage of replacement crews coming forward and there was several, not too many, UK crews there. They were a wonderful, friendly people. They had comforts sent to them from New Zealand which were, was not in such an austere state as this country and they shared. Shared them always with us. Leave, of course, was compulsory on a squadron every six weeks. Things got easier. We had five leaves in four months which didn’t do us any harm. When you went on leave you get, got an extra five shillings from the Nuffield Fund which, added to the eight shillings which you got there, was a welcome addition. Looking back forty pence a day to be an air gunner does not seem an overpayment. Anyway, we stayed there until the 16th of June ‘45 and did half a tour there. The last one being the first air drop under the Operation Manna which was very different to the others because we had to go over there on a specified route at three hundred feet which was, we were told, it had been agreed with the Red Cross. We were not told it had been agreed with the Germans because on that date it hadn’t and we were followed by flak guns who were lining this route. That part of Holland was, at that stage, still occupied by the, by the Germans. The reason for Operation Manna was that twenty thousand Dutch people had died from starvation. So the affect, you can well imagine, was very great on all the rest. Despite their German occupation they were out in the streets. Out on the rooftops waving their flags and generally cheering and waving us and that was quite remarkable. Because we were on the first one we didn’t have packs to put the sacks of food on. They were just loaded on the bomb bay doors and they were dried egg, dried milk, flour. Really basic things. And you did it at three hundred feet. You just opened the bomb doors and there they went. And of course coming back it was so wonderful to have been giving life instead of taking life. An earlier but totally different memory results from the publication in the newspapers of the Belsen camp being liberated. With piles of corpses and piles, and people walking. Well walking or sitting. Skeletons. Slowly starving. We seldom but very occasionally would wonder where our bombs had dropped because there was an inevitable meeting between the bombs and hospitals and children and so forth and so on. And this was at the back of your mind wondering where they had been because I mean you couldn’t possibly see where they’d been. But once we saw the pictures of Belsen it had two effects on us. One was horror. And the other one was it removed any feeling of guilt. So on the 17th of June we were posted to 90 Squadron because 75 Squadron was going to be repatriated or go out to the Pacific or somewhere. And that was at Tuddenham and we were there on operational review which was photographic survey of the whole of Europe. We were, we believed that we were going out with Tiger Force to Okinawa in September ‘45. We were never officially told that but when the bombs dropped in August ’85 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki a tremendous cheer went up because we knew that we were not going to be done again. There were one or two crews who hadn’t been on any ops who were a bit disappointed perhaps.
[Recording paused]
CB: Right. We’re restarting now.
HP: We left 90 Squadron and the crew was dispersed on the 30th October 1945 and we were sent to Catterick. Some of us. So I think the pilot and the navigator were posted to Transport Command and the rest of us were spare. And there was a holding unit at Catterick where, it was there until it was decided what we’d do with us and we were there for a month until the 28th of November ’45 when we were posted to Silloth for work at a, at a Maintenance Unit. And I found myself in the guard room in charge of a guard dog and walking around. And since I was of an equal or higher rank than all the rest of the policemen that was quite a pleasant occupation. Just walking around the camp. And I made sure I had the dog with me. On the 3rd of January, possibly because of my background in accountancy, I was sent to the School Of Accountancy Training at Kirkham which is not too far from Blackpool and finished there on the 31st of January. Moving from there to an Equipment Disposal Depot, 276 Maintenance Unit at Burton Wood. From there on the 27th of February at my last posting to 268 MU which was an Equipment Disposal Depot at Marston Moor in Yorkshire. People have heard of Marston Moor. And if I had obeyed orders I would still be there now because I was told to report to the demob centre on the 31st of April 1947. So I didn’t. I went there on the 1st of May and therefore left the RAF. Now, from a family point of view in March, no, May, 1945 I met the girl who was going to become my wife and we got married in October 1946 and managed to get a flat together on our demob. And in May 1948 the first child was born who was described by the local Scottish GP as, ‘A wee demob present.’ I returned to the firm where I was articled because it was a five year article. I had just done two. About two years before going in the RAF. Concessions due to people who’d been in the forces. The five years was reduced to three so I had a year to do then and I had the exams to do. You got exemption from the intermediate or consideration on two subjects in the final. I decided to opt for the consideration of the two. This was done by correspondence course. There was no tuition other than the occasional Saturday morning lecture in Liverpool. Took the final exams in November ‘48 and got the results in January ‘49. It was easy to find out what your result was. We were on the second floor of this block of flats and you knew what time the post came and it came down and just went through on to the floor down there. You had a careful look and if it was a thin envelope you had failed. If it was a thick envelope it had the application for membership and you knew you’d got through. So from there having moved from a very small practice in Oswestry. You know, which was local firms, farms and nothing. Small. Needed to go for some experience on bigger stuff so we moved to London. Lived in Raynes Park and I got a job with Price Waterhouse. No. I beg your pardon. [Pitt Mark and Mitchell?] which was audits on a big scale including, I can say, Fairey Aviation at Hayes, which was interesting. Having done that for a year I decided I would rather make my own mistakes than find other people’s so got a job with United Dominions Trust which, at that time was the main hire purchase business and their premises were in Thames Street. They were just by London Bridge in London. I stayed there for two years and it was, it was a boring job and then the travel gene came out so I got a job with the India General Navigation and Railway Company Limited founded in 1847 which provided river steamers up and down the Ganges and the Brahmaputra with a head office in Calcutta. So went there. Obviously in the accounts department. The scale of it was rather surprising. There isn’t a bridge on the Brahmaputra for the first seven hundred miles because there isn’t enough stable bank. One of the principal activities was bringing tea down from Assam. There were a lot of general cargo but that was a bulk one. And in the month of October which was the busy month we would bring down from Assam to Calcutta for loading up from the port six hundred thousand eighty pound chests of tea which is a lot of cups full. The passenger vessels were licensed to carry more passengers than the Queen Mary. Two and a half thousand. Perhaps not quite in the same standard of comfort but it was an important link in the travel of East and West Bengal which were now separated. East Bengal at that stage was East Pakistan. Later changed its name to Bangladesh when it separated from what was then West Pakistan. In the December of that that year we moved from Calcutta to Dakar where an office was being set up because of the split of all the various companies following the devolution in 1947 and had to set up, from scratch, an accounts department there. Fortunately, twelve Hindu clerks were content to come with me even though they were moving to a Mohammedan country which had been a lot of unpleasantness in the recent past and I was very appreciative of that. They stayed for about four or five months whilst I got the furniture for the office and recruited seventy local people with a minimum qualification of a B-Comm and generally speaking an M-Comm. That meant that they were able to express a third as a percentage or the other way around. There, until the [pause] sorry. In Calcutta we were in partnership with the River Steam Navigation Company which was the same company that ran the British India Steamship Company and they were, ran joint services but they had separate marine engineering accounts and all the other departments and it was decided it would be better to set up the joint ones. At that time I was posted to Chittagong and there to sit in an office for six months drawing up the procedure and the layout of the books and all the things for the joint accounts department in Calcutta. Having done which, posted back to Calcutta to make the bloody thing work and stayed doing that until 1957 when, by that stage having had another child out there and where the expat community was tending to diminish. It was, when I went there in 1952 there were ten thousand British expats in Calcutta. All with, all in management jobs. Decided it was better to come back to the UK. Decided then not to work north of a line from the Mersey to the Wash. Not London. And the Black Country. Got a job just outside Abingdon which was in Berkshire with Ameys which was a building material company using sand and gravel quarried stone, concrete, concrete products. I stayed there from 1958 until retirement in 1985 at the age of sixty.
[Recording paused]
CB: Just doing a recap on a number of things now, Hugh. In your earliest stages you talked about your friends volunteering for PNB — Pilot, Navigator, Bomb aimer. What happened to them?
HP: They were called up, sort of, eighteen and a half, nineteen. Sometimes just a bit over nineteen because they initially were put on deferred service but when they were called up they were given ground jobs as aircraft and general duties. And none of them completed any flying training or ever got to a squadron. So my decision to go for air gunner although it was thought a much lower and lower class occupation than the rest of the aircrew I was fortunate enough to get all the way through and became their envy. I got paid slightly more which was a bit expensive when they were on leave and I was at the same time.
CB: To what extent did you keep up with them during the war?
HP: Very little.
CB: You didn’t know where they were I presume.
HP: If you were on leave at the same time you did but I mean your life was very full.
CB: Yes. Ok.
HP: And you, you were meeting new people all the time.
CB: Yeah.
HP: And you didn’t make too many intimate friends as such because you were aware that their, of their life expectancy and that there was this distance. Certainly between crews and to an extent within a crew.
CB: Ok so —
HP: You were very close together. If one chap had any money you all had money. But as far as mixing with families goes — no. The bare minimum.
CB: Now you mentioned crews. So this is moving ahead a little but you crewed up at number 11 OTU at Westcott and what happened there? You arrived at Westcott. Then what happened?
HP: The day after arrival all the various un-crewed up members were assembled in a hangar. The pilots then sort of cruised around accumulating a crew. And there didn’t — there was no logic about it. There was no question of people being placed with one or another. It just happened. In the American Air Force I think they were posted together by order of their superiors but with us we just accumulated and that started off as a period of trust.
CB: And what was your pilot like?
HP: Paddy Goody was basically of Irish descent. He was, I think he was a flight sergeant there. He got a commission in the end of March I think it was. ‘45. We were all from very much the same background. You know. Sort of Grammar School or equivalent.
CB: Ok. And was he a good leader? [pause] Or you just followed what he —
HP: Well we worked together as a crew. There wasn’t conscious leadership as such. We moved as a unit. Not as six people commanded by the pilot
CB: Right. And then what about the other members of the crew? Should we? What about the bomb aimer?
HP: The bomb aimer. Taffy Williams. We knew him as grandad because he had his twenty third birthday when he was with us and he came from not too far from Rhosllanerchrugog. Try and spell that.
CB: That’s an easy one. Yes. [laughs]
HP: The navigator, Roy Wootton came from Nottingham. The Gilly, the other air gunner, he was a Londoner. The flight engineer, he joined us when we were at Heavy Conversion Unit and he was a Geordie. The wireless operator, Gilly — no. Harper. Gilly was the other gunner. Harper. Harper he was. He came from Grantham. Now he was a bit of an oddity. After an operation he would sit on his own in the mess not talking to anyone and he ended up by more or less excluding himself from a crew. So he left us and we were joined by another wireless operator who was a spare on the squadron. I can’t remember his name. We weren’t together all that time. Otherwise, as a crew if one had a pound you all had. You all had a drink, you know. And it was very much a crew spirit.
CB: So the crew spirit at the OTU.
HP: That’s where it generated.
CB: Was pretty good was it? It’s just that when you got to the HCU that you had this difficulty with Harper.
HP: No. That was on the squadron.
CB: On the squadron. Right.
HP: Yes.
CB: Ok.
HP: Because after an operation he would sit separately.
CB: Ok.
HP: Not after a flight.
CB: So why did he move? Was he — did somebody say, ‘Right. That’s it.’ and say, ‘We’ll have somebody else,’ or, how did that happen?
HP: Well as because he was part of the crew the rest of us said, agreed with the pilot, that he would go and see the chap in charge of the wireless operators, you know. Which was a sort of separate wireless operators section. There was a gunnery section, a bomb aimers section and say, ‘Look we think it is better from his point of view as much as from ours if he doesn’t stay with us.’ Now, he was eventually posted but we made sure that he didn’t carry with him the horrible initials of LMF with which I’m sure you’re familiar.
CB: I was going to ask you about that. Keep going. Yes.
HP: Yeah. Yeah. We made sure that he was just posted and not, not labelled.
CB: Ok. So what we’ve talked about is going back a little now. You joined at Shrewsbury. Was that a recruiting office?
HP: Yeah. Shrewsbury was the combined recruiting office for all three services.
CB: Right. And what did they do there? You knew you wanted to be RAF but —
HP: Oh yes. Yeah. So you went, you went to the RAF section. You said what you wanted to do. You had the normal medical which everyone went through and you had an interview and if you were considered reasonable at that level you then went to Birmingham for the aircrew medical and aptitude tests and recruitment and where you got your shilling.
CB: Now. The shilling’s important. We’ll come back to that. But you said aircrew tests. You’d already indicated you wanted to be an air gunner.
HP: Yeah.
CB: Were you on that stream?
HP: Yes.
CB: And what were the —
HP: No. No. You were on an aircrew stream.
CB: Aircrew stream.
HP: At that stage.
CB: Right. Ok. So what tests did they give you there?
HP: Oh. Extra medicals. Extra sight tests. Hand and eye coordination with which you’re familiar. The test.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Ok.
HP: And aircraft recognition. All sorts.
CB: Then when you went to ACRC, the Aircrew Reception Centre in —
HP: St John’s.
CB: St Johns Wood was there any repetition of what you’d done or was it a different? What did you do there?
HP: You went there to be kitted out and punctured.
CB: Yeah. Inoculations.
HP: Yes. And if you were in one particular requisitioned block of flats you actually went to eat in Regents Park Zoo.
CB: But not eating the animals. The —
HP: Not. You didn’t know.
CB: [laughs] So then you went to ITW at Bridlington. That was an ITW was it? Bridlington.
HP: It was.
CB: Pardon?
HP: Yes.
CB: It was. Right. So that was when you were on the beach and you’ve got the driving rain.
HP: Yes.
CB: What was the main activity there?
HP: Aircraft recognition. The guns with which you had to be familiar. Both from the point of view of their components and their stripping and very limited amount of firing. Law, discipline and just general background to assimilate you in to the air force with a view to moving on to air gunner training.
CB: So what were the guns you were using? Were they ones that were used on the ground like Bren guns and rifles? Or —
HP: Yes. They tended to be. But that was a minor point. I mean using live ammunition was not that very serious.
CB: Ok. Then you went to Bridgnorth. Now this is the, [pause] a gunnery school is it?
HP: Number 1, Elementary Air Gunnery School. Number 1 EAGS.
CB: Ok.
HP: No flying there at all but just taking this, taking the ITW disciplines a stage further.
CB: So how were they teaching you air gunnery there? For instance to what extent did they use clay pigeon shooting?
HP: I don’t think we had clay pigeon shooting there. We might have done but it was just more intense of stripping and reassembling and, say, aircraft recognition and you did a limited amount of astronomy so that, you know, you could do that and a limited amount of what might happen on an escape and evasion. I don’t remember much more.
CB: Ok. And the guns there. Were they the type that would be in the aircraft? In other words Brownings. 303.
HP: I think it was there we were first introduced to the Browning 303.
CB: In a turret? Or in an open deck?
HP: I think we had possibly a very limited amount of turret manipulation but very limited. And yeah and following a dot which was put around a darkened chamber through the gun sight.
CB: Right.
HP: To get the turret manipulation.
CB: So your next move was Pembrey on the, on the [Caernarvon?] Coast.
HP: South Wales Coast.
CB: Cardigan Coast is it? Anyway. The edge of Cardigan Bay.
HP: Yeah.
CB: So that’s —
HP: No. No. No. South Wales.
CB: South Wales. Right. So where —
HP: Yeah. Overlooking the Bristol Channel.
CB: Oh. Over the Bristol Channel. Right.
HP: Yes. Yeah.
CB: So what was the activity there? What did they teach you there?
HP: Well again just a development but at that stage you would have four trainee air gunners going off in an Anson firing live ammunition at a drogue towed by a Miles Magister or a Master. I can’t remember. I can’t remember which. And when the tow was over the drogue would be dropped on the runway and it would be picked up by the four trainee air gunners from the Anson. Having landed before they got, they got to it and that would be taken into a hut with a long bench and you would then identify the bullet holes which you had made. Not that anybody else had made. Now the, I think the firing was two hundred and fifty rounds for each. It was made up in a belt of four lots of two fifty. Three had their gun, their round tips dipped in a colour and the fourth one didn’t have any colour at all. So you had traces of the colour in the drogue and you counted the number of holes and divided them by two. One for the bullet to go in. The other one for the bullet to go out. And that gave you a score. You also had fighter liaison with the camera gun where you were practising deflection and bullet trail and all the other various parts. And with the target aircraft diving, moving, doing mock attacks. And those, the film from those camera guns was then assessed as to your ability to be able to fire directly.
[Recording paused]
CB: We’ve talked about your training there in the Anson and you mentioned deflection shooting. Could you just describe what that means?
HP: The only point blank shooting which was shooting direct at an aircraft would be one which was immediately behind you and travelling at the same speed and not changing direction. From there you could aim straight at it. If it were in any position other than that you had to put the bullet where the aircraft would be when the bullet got there and this would involve both speed and direction. It might be climbing — losing speed. It might be diving and gaining speed. So you had to rapidly assess which you thought it would be and in your gun sight there was a point and a circle. Within the circle you would draw a line in your mind from the point to the edge of the circle that the plane would be coming in to and you then had to assess how many of those radiuses you needed to move according to the speed of the aircraft relative to the speed of the one you were in. Apart from that there was one other complication that your own aircraft could well be manoeuvring violently as well.
CB: Yes. So in practical terms then the amount of deflection, the amount you aim ahead would depend, to some extent, on the relative position of the other plane.
HP: Yes. And what it was doing and what your own plane was doing.
CB: Right. So what might your own plane be doing?
HP: Might be diving, climbing, turning.
CB: What about corkscrew?
HP: Well if if you went into a corkscrew it was most unlikely that the attacking aircraft would follow you because it wouldn’t be able to. That was the point of the corkscrew. If he could follow you through into a corkscrew well there was no point in corkscrewing.
CB: Right. So could you just describe how you’d get into the corkscrew and what was the corkscrew?
HP: The cork.
CB: Who would call the corkscrew?
HP: The gunners would usually call the corkscrew because they would be the ones seeing the attacking aircraft who were aft. And you could corkscrew to the port or to starboard. A corkscrew to port would be when the pilot would dive port and having done that for a matter of some seconds. Ten, fifteen perhaps. He would then turn the aircraft and dive starboard. He would then climb starboard and then climb port and then he would dive port. And that would repeat a circular movement which can adequately be described by going along and describing a pass, a corkscrew in the air.
CB: And the fighter would normally be closing at a higher speed or the same speed?
HP: He would, if you were corkscrewing the fighter would probably stand off because his chance of being able to hit you when you were corkscrewing were the same as your chance of hitting him when you were corkscrewing.
CB: Right.
HP: That was the point of doing a corkscrew.
CB: Right. So we are at Pembrey and you’ve been getting all this training. What happened then? How long was that? Relatively short period?
[Recording paused]
HP: The Air Gunnery School was from the 25th of March 1944 to the 30th of June so that was three months which was the longest period there.
CB: Ok. And from there you went to the OTU.
HP: Yes.
CB: We talked about crewing up. What did — because there were all the disciplines except flight engineer at the OTU what were the tasks you did as a crew?
HP: Well we were flying in Wellingtons so we had to become familiar with the Wellington. When walking down the gang plank from forward to aft or aft to forward you had to make sure you didn’t, you didn’t let your foot slip on either side because it would go through the fabric of the fuselage and that would cost you five shillings to the ground crew to mend when you got back. And since your pay was four shillings a day you were very careful walking. It was familiarity with cross country flying with the wireless operator then. It was everybody becoming more familiar with their trade and doing, for the first time, practice bombing runs with practice bombs on bombing ranges which might be on the ground or they might be just just on the coach.
CB: And were you — as far as the gunners were concerned that wasn’t a task you were directly involved in but were you doing fighter affiliation?
HP: Oh yes.
CB: As well?
HP: Yes.
CB: And how would that normally take place?
HP: Generally more. Generally with, not with drogues but with cameras. And not — and with fighter aircraft because it was part of their training. So you were helping a fighter, our own air force fighter aircraft to do the same thing so they would have their camera guns on you.
CB: Now the number of airfields was very high so what area would you be doing fighter affiliation work? It was?
HP: Well you could fly out over the sea or you could, or you could go west because if you went west say from [pause] oh a line drawn up north south through Birmingham there was plenty of air space there and there was, or went beyond Yorkshire there was plenty.
CB: Right.
HP: Or over the sea.
CB: So you were at Westcott for three months and at the Number 11 OTU. And then you go to the HCU. At Westcott did you know where you were going to be posted or did that only emerge —
HP: No.
CB: At the last minute?
HP: Well it only, in fact it only, when you got your orders through the post because you were probably on leave. You just reported.
CB: Right. So you’d finish your OTU training and go on leave and then find out. In this case that you were going to Woolfox.
HP: Yeah.
CB: So what happened there? What was the aircraft?
HP: From there to the Lancaster which was of course a lot bigger aircraft. You had your flight engineer.
CB: He joined you then.
HP: He joined you there and it was just more cross country. More. Just more of the same but I think we went on one diversion raid to Calais. We would. You did that to sort of draw off the German Air Force from the intended target. They would have a force going there and we got, I think we got shot at over Calais which was a bit unfair we thought because we were only training.
CB: Yeah. Not fair at all. [laughs] So those sorties. Would they, what sort of flight time would you have there? Would they be fairly short because you went to Calais and back? Or would you then go on somewhere different to make up the time?
HP: Excuse me while I look up.
CB: That’s fine.
HP: Woolfox Lodge. We did a lot of circuits and landings, rated climbs, fighter affiliation, a run on H2S, cross country’s or practice bombing and general fighter affiliation. Yeah.
CB: Ok. We’ll stop there just for a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: Ok. So you finished at Woolfox Lodge and you were then posted to Mepal in Cambridgeshire. What, what were you impressions when you arrived there? The squadron and the station.
HP: Well we were made very very welcome.
CB: This is a New Zealand squadron.
HP: Yes. And we were still at that stage an all NCO crew. We didn’t have any problem. You had the traditional two crews to a Nissen hut and everybody had a bike so that they could get to the mess and they could eat. Everything was relatively informal but the discipline all through the training became more and more your own discipline and the crew discipline. You weren’t ordered to do many, to do things in detail. You knew you had to report at a certain time every day to the gunnery section or what, if you weren’t doing anything else and you just did it. As you would any job in Civvy Street. There was a high degree of discipline but it was self-imposed of necessity.
CB: And tell us about the crew. So they had a motto and the squadron was supposedly New Zealand but what was the composition?
HP: I don’t follow the —
CB: Right. So what was the motto of the New Zealand Squadron? 75.
HP: That was, that was the motto of the New Zealand squadron Ake Ake Kia Kaha.
CB: Right. Which meant?
HP: “For ever and ever be strong.”
CB: Right. So why were there, why were there British crews as well?
HP: Because there weren’t enough New Zealand crews coming forward to replace the casualties.
CB: Right. And what about the ground crew?
HP: All British.
CB: And what association did your crew have with the ground crew?
HP: Well, we had the same aircraft all the time and it was friendly without being really familiar. They wouldn’t want to become over familiar with the crew because they didn’t want to lose their crews. But they tended to, if you were on an op, they would wait to see if you came back before they went off on leave.
CB: And what was the chief, the chief of the ground crew, the chief — the crew chief. Who did he liaise with in terms of the aircraft?
HP: Well he would liaise according to the trade which was involved. I mean you had air frame, you had wireless, you had gunnery. You know. Engines. They had, the ground crew were a team of specialists who tended to reflect the trades of the aircrew. On return from a flight of any sort whether it be training or operational a report would be made to the ground crew of any problems or anticipated problem.
CB: And who would do that in your crew?
HP: Depends on the speciality. There’s no point in anyone trying to inform the problems of another one’s trade because he wouldn’t know.
CB: Right. So in the crew there are people at the front, people at the back and people in the middle. As the mid-upper gunner who had the best perspective?
HP: When you say perspective you mean the greatest all-around view?
CB: When you’re flying.
HP: Oh yes. No doubt about it. The mid upper gunner because you could turn through three hundred and sixty degrees and you could look upwards and downwards.
CB: And in your position how many guns did you have?
HP: Two.
CB: And how often did you fire them on operations?
HP: Seldom.
CB: Was there a reason for that?
HP: Yes. Nothing to fire at as we were mainly on daylights to synthetic oil plants.
CB: Ah.
HP: Bombing on GH which you are aware of.
CB: Yeah. On —
HP: And we had close escort of Mustangs and high escorts of Spitfires. So we didn’t have a lot of trouble with fighters. We had the odd rocket one would come through. Go up and, you know, firing as it went up and firing again as it came down.
CB: ME262 er 163.
HP: 163.
CB: 163. Yes.
HP: Yes. The 262 was the first —
CB: Jet.
HP: Jet. And the target areas were heavily supported by flak. The reason we were going there was to — obviously so that there was no oil available. No fuel available. And it became apparent from the shortage of fuel for tanks and aircraft that we were achieving what we set out to do.
[Recording paused]
HP: That is shortly going to go twelve.
[Recording paused]
CB: Ask the question.
JB: I was just wondering how it was that you met your wife and what she was doing.
HP: I was, I was on leave and I was friendly with a family called the Morgans. Morgan family. And we used to tend to go to the same places. This was the Queen’s Hotel. She was friendly with a female member of that family. I was familiar with one of the boys. I went in there. Met for the first time in April ‘45 and it just moved on very naturally from there.
JB: Oh right. And so was she working?
HP: Yes. She was working in a chemist’s.
JB: In the hotel?
HP: In a chemist’s shop.
JB: Oh right.
HP: She wasn’t a qualified pharmacist.
JB: No.
HP: But she did a lot of dispensing from the prescriptions.
JB: Right. Right. Did she develop that after the war? Did she carry on? Did she?
HP: No. We were. No. We were married. She was the mother of the children.
JB: Yes. That was a time when you did. You did. Your job was to be mother of the children wasn’t it?
HP: Yes.
JB: So that’s something that I don’t think people these days quite cotton on to. Apparently.
CB: We’re going to stop because we’re coming to the 12th hour.
HP: Yes.
[Recording paused]
CB: We’ve restarted now just to pick up on an item which was to do with the wireless operator and we didn’t really go in to it but LMF, lack of moral fibre was a particular stigma. So how did you see it and how did it affect your crew?
HP: You were aware that this was a sanction. You couldn’t be put on a charge for refusing to fly because you were all volunteers. There had to be a sanction for those who deliberately avoided it or demonstrated any signs of cowardice. It would, a lot depended on the squadron commander and the medical officer as to the sanction which would be applied and to the history of the individual and what he actually did to possibly justify an assessment. If somebody was — appeared to refuse to fly out of sheer cowardice he could be classified as LMF. That was put on a rubber stamp on all his documents. He would be posted to an aircrew disciplinary school at Sheffield and the same thing could apply to a total crew if a total crew went, as a unit, LMF and those initials would follow them as a matter of disgrace all the way through. So because you couldn’t be disciplined for refusing to fly you had this as the alternative which was shame. And it was shame that would accompany you for the rest of your time. So to what extent this stopped people taking actions which would possibly declare them LMF of course can never be known.
CB: And in the case of your crew — what happened there?
HP: Nothing.
CB: But you had a man, a wireless operator —
HP: We had a man who we could no longer get on with and he was isolating himself. He carried out, he carried out his job reasonably well but became incompatible with us and for that reason we made sure that although we made arrangements with him to be replaced that there was no stigma attached to him.
CB: Yeah. He was posted elsewhere was he?
HP: Yes. I think so. But no —
CB: But nobody. Nobody knew.
HP: Yes. He left but we don’t know where he went or what or how.
CB: And the new man? How did he react to joining the crew in these circumstances?
HP: He was glad to be back in with a crew. He was no longer a spare man.
CB: And why would people be spares?
HP: Well he was on either his second or his third tour.
CB: Oh.
HP: And I think the rest of the crew had finished, finished a tour and he had a few more ops to do to become tour expired. So spares.
CB: Yeah. Now in your case 75 gave way to 90. What were the circumstances of that?
HP: Well 75 Squadron, as far as we understood it, was going to be returning to New Zealand.
CB: So the war has ended in Europe.
HP: Yes.
CB: 8th of May.
HP: Yes.
CB: 1945. How soon after that did they —
HP: Well beginning of June we were posted to 90. I don’t know when 75 actually moved back to New Zealand.
CB: And there was the Maori motto but were there Maori members of the crew?
HP: There were.
CB: And what did they do in the aircraft as a task? Do you know?
HP: Well, any. Any job.
CB: So they were pilots.
HP: Yes.
CB: Yeah. The whole span.
HP: Probably fewer pilots because of the length of training but there was.
CB: Yeah.
HP: Yeah. And they were a wonderful friendly people.
CB: And they had a boost to their rations. How did that work?
HP: Who said they had a boost to their rations?
CB: Well because they, they received parcels from New Zealand.
HP: Oh all. The whole of the New Zealand squadron.
CB: That’s what I meant.
HP: Got home comforts.
CB: Yes.
HP: Yeah.
CB: What did they get mainly?
HP: Oh you got cigarettes fully packed in tissue paper, silver paper and cellophane covered cardboard boxes and I think there were chocolate and so forth. Nothing very major but sufficient to make the non-New Zealand crews feel that they were welcome. That they, it wasn’t that a whole group of people got something that you didn’t get and that there was a gap between you.
CB: Yeah.
HP: There was every attempt to keep it as a unit.
CB: Yes. So they were supplied by New Zealand but everybody, regardless of origin on the squadron —
HP: Yeah.
CB: Took. Was able to benefit.
HP: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Your final operation before the war ended was Operation Manna which was supplying food to people in Holland.
HP: Yes.
CB: You talked about your, the first op. What other operations did you do there? Was that the only one or did you do several other Manna drops?
HP: No. We did the first one on, it was a Sunday. The 29th of April and then it got other squadrons. It was a privilege to actually be able to do it and other squadrons and other crews were involved. There was a limited number to start with.
CB: What was the significance of flying at three hundred feet rather than a different level?
HP: If you’re dropping stuff in sacks you want to drop it from not too high otherwise the sacks would burst.
CB: No. I meant, I meant rather than two hundred or one hundred because the impact is so high.
HP: I wouldn’t know.
CB: No.
HP: You might have had pylons going up to two hundred and fifty. Who knows? But I mean that — somebody had to fix that.
CB: Yeah.
HP: You couldn’t do it, fly at ground level even though Holland is pretty flat.
CB: Because you never knew which windmill was coming up next.
HP: Yes.
CB: Right. So how many sorties did you do? Operations did you do on Manna?
HP: As far as I know, oh only one on Manna. And I think we did fourteen bombing operations I think it was.
CB: Yeah.
HP: And then one on Manna.
CB: Ok. And —
HP: And we only did one night operation. That was to Kiel.
CB: Ok.
HP: That was the night the Scharnhorst sunk. We of course sank it.
CB: Yeah. Of course you did. Yeah. Everybody did.
HP: The other nine hundred aircraft on the operation missed.
CB: Everybody did. Yeah. That’s it. So 90 Squadron now. So you’re in 90 Squadron what’s the brief there?
HP: Well. Carry on with operation review which was the —
CB: This is the mapping. The film mapping.
HP: This is the mapping of Europe. Yeah. Generally long distance flying. Anything up to eight hours.
CB: And at what height would you be flying there?
HP: I think the, it was because of the cameras I think we were at twenty thousand feet above ground level.
CB: Oh.
HP: So the height varied.
CB: And it’s a big place. Continent of Europe. So what was the focus that you had geographically?
HP: Well, not a particular focus. You just went. Went where you were told the following day.
CB: Yeah. But did it tend to be any consistency like —
HP: No.
CB: Going over —
HP: No.
CB: France or whatever.
HP: No. I mean over France. We went once to Norway and there you were supposed to get there at first light before the clouds formed. Norway at first light. The fjords, the fjords, the bottom of the fjords were in darkness so we had to wait until that was light. As soon as that was light the cloud started up and down so we went and had a look up the fjords and we were flying up one and turned around to the left and stopped. S we just managed stopped so we just manage to scrape over the top.
CB: Crikey. Yeah.
JB: Nasty moment.
[Recording paused]
HP: That was on the 5th of September.
CB: So your mapping work took some time. How long did that continue until?
HP: Well I’ve no idea how long other people carried on.
CB: No.
HP: We did our last mapping trip on the 5th. On the 5th of September.
CB: Right. And then after that did you stand down?
HP: We were made redundant.
CB: Pardon?
HP: We were made redundant.
CB: Oh you were. Right. Ok. So that’s when you went to the —
HP: Yeah.
CB: Other places. Catterick.
HP: You had, you had a lot of newly trained crews you see. Moving forward.
CB: Right. And they wanted to use them.
HP: Well they were just replaced those who became redundant.
CB: Yeah. Right. Ok. Good.
HP: And of course squadrons were disbanded.
CB: Yes. [pause] But 90 carried on.
[Recording paused]
HP: On Bomber —
CB: Just going on to equipment. We touched briefly — you mentioned H2S the scanning radar. So what was it, how did it work and how did you use it?
HP: We didn’t use H2S. We were bombing on GH.
CB: Oh. On GH. Right.
HP: And
CB: Why didn’t you use H2S?
HP: Because it wasn’t as accurate as GH. We were daylight bombing on synthetic oil plants which were not vast areas and the, you had special training to familiarise yourself with, with this and specially equipped aircraft and on, on a squadron going one in three aircraft would be equipped with —
CB: GH.
HP: With GH only. And two aircraft would formate on that. So you went out like that because I think the question of the strength of signals. I don’t know much about GH but we went on a course where the navigator/bomb aimer were familiarised with this method of accurate bombing through cloud or through anything else like that and you had to maintain a steady course to go over this which was helpful for the flak.
CB: Absolutely, because this is running on a lattice system and, right — so talking about flak to what extent did you get damage from flak?
HP: You usually came back with holes of some sort. We came back once with two engines gone on one side which was not particularly healthy. Another occasion I knew I was dead. I was doing a search there. I’m fairly tall. If I was looking up the back of my head would be pressed against the Perspex of the turret at the back and there was a loud bang where my head was touching this. I turned around and there was a hole about the, about the size of a penny. So I felt the back of my head. Nothing. Looked around at the hole. It was definitely there and if I wasn’t bleeding and didn’t feel any pain therefore I was dead. Now, this lasted for perhaps a half a minute, a minute before you realised that it was a large piece of, large piece of flak had ricocheted off. But bearing in mind you’ve been on oxygen and heated, you’re cold, you’ve got temperatures of minus thirty, minus forty and there was stress. So for that short period of time I knew I was dead. But you came back with holes almost practically anywhere.
CB: And in your turret which way would you normally be facing? Was it —were you rotating it?
HP: Aft.
CB: All the time? Or mainly aft.
HP: Yeah. Yeah. The normal position of a turret was facing aft because you didn’t have to rotate the turret to see.
CB: Yeah. So when those engines went out you would be looking backwards so you wouldn’t see them being hit.
HP: Well you wouldn’t necessarily see them being hit because they would be from underneath and since the engines were underneath the wing.
CB: No. I’m just wondering whether you happened to see as both went out. Whether you happened to experience that.
HP: I can’t remember. I can’t remember.
CB: Right.
HP: You soon knew it had happened.
CB: Yes.
HP: There was a change in sound immediately.
CB: We talked about GH is was the navigation system also used for bombing but from earlier in the war the H2S with the bulge underneath was introduced. My question there was why wouldn’t you use it?
HP: Because the fighters could, 1 — because the fighters could home in on it. 2 — it wasn’t as accurate for the targets which we were detailed to bomb and there weren’t too many squadrons on daylight bombing.
CB: Right.
HP: In Bomber Command.
CB: Right.
HP: We were.
CB: Good. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Hugh Parry. One
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-11
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AParryHP161011
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Hugh Parry was born in Oswestry and joined the Air Force in April 1943 and volunteered to be an air gunner. Knowing that there was a height restriction on air gunners of six feet he hid his height by wearing baggy trousers. After training, he was posted to 75 NZ Squadron and then to 90 Squadron at RAF Tuddenham where his crew carried out photographic reconnaissance over Europe. Among his operations Hugh’s crew were also one of the first to take part in Operation Manna. After the war Hugh returned to accountancy. For a while he lived and worked in Bangladesh before returning to the UK.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
India
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Rutland
England--Suffolk
India--Kolkata
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Format
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01:09:30 audio recording
11 OTU
1651 HCU
3 Group
75 Squadron
90 Squadron
aerial photograph
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
animal
Anson
bombing
crewing up
Gee
ground crew
ground personnel
guard room
H2S
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Me 163
military ethos
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
P-51
perception of bombing war
physical training
RAF Bridlington
RAF Mepal
RAF Pembrey
RAF Silloth
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Westcott
RAF Woolfox Lodge
reconnaissance photograph
Spitfire
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/664/10068/PAbrahams.1.jpg
5ca2f683b76f7fd1b5a8ca2fca3e7ad4
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/664/10068/AAbrahamsGJ170617.1.mp3
cef749f37d6d36193023692dcf3c2847
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Abrahams, Gerald Joseph
G J Abrahams
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Gerald Joseph Abrahams (1923 - 2023, 1850566). He few operations as a wireless operator with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Abrahams, GJ
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CJ: This is Chris Johnson and I’m interviewing Gerry Abrahams today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We’re at the Spitfire Museum at Manston and it is Saturday 17th of June 2017. Thank you for agreeing to talk to me today, Gerry. So, first of all perhaps you could tell us please where and when you were born and your family’s background?
GA: I was born in London in 1923. And my father was in textiles, and I suppose we were a lower middle-class family.
CJ: And did you go to school in that area?
GA: I went to school in London. Yes.
CJ: And so did you have any part time jobs or — ?
GA: No.
CJ: You were helping father or —
GA: No. Nothing at all. No.
CJ: Ok.
GA: No.
CJ: And so when did you — how and, did you come to volunteer for the RAF and when was that?
GA: Well, when I was sixteen the war was declared, and I decided I had to leave school and do something for the war effort. So, I got — I joined Vickers Armstrong and I was based at Newbury which was a specialist Spitfire experimental factory. It was, we were working on the contra-rotating prop which later came on the Griffon engine, and the retractable tail wheel which gave you a knot or two extra. It was hard work. It was twelve hours a day or twelve hours a night six days or six nights a week. But one morning the air raid siren went which was very unusual for a sleepy country town and we all trooped to what they laughingly called an air raid shelter. And I looked out and I saw the Heinkels coming very low to get rid of this very important Spitfire factory. But they missed for some reason, I don’t know how and they bombed a school nearby and killed a lot of children. So next day I went to Newbury Recruiting Centre and said I was an engineer and I wanted to join the RAF as an engineer. And he said, ‘Where do you want to? Where do you work?’, and I said , ‘Vickers Armstrong’. He said, ‘We can’t take you then,’ he said, ‘You’re a reserved occupation.’ And I said, ‘Is there no way I can get into the air force?’ He said, ‘Well, there’s two things you can do. You become an artificer on a submarine or aircrew.’ Well, it took me about a microsecond deciding I wasn’t going on submarines but I quite liked the idea of aircrew. I hadn’t thought about it before, but I said, ‘Yes. I’ll become aircrew’, and that was how I joined up.
CJ: And so did you go — so that was at age sixteen. So —
GA: No. This was, I was seventeen and a half by this stage.
CJ: Right. So you actually went straight into the RAF or you had to wait until eighteen?
GA: No. I had to wait a few months. About three months I waited. Yeah.
CJ: And where did you start your training?
GA: I went, well, we started at aircrew, ACRC London, St Johns Wood. And then I went to Bridgnorth for ITW.
CJ: Sorry. ITW?
GA: That’s your square bashing thing. Initial Training Wing I think it means. Yeah. And then I went to Madley in Hertfordshire.
CJ: And what was the training you were carrying out there?
GA: Oh. I trained as a wireless operator. Yeah.
CJ: And how long was that training then before you went to an operational squadron?
GA: About a year. Yeah. And then after that I went to AFU which is another training thing, and then to OTU where you all crewed up. And this, I crewed up and was sent to a New Zealand squadron.
CJ: And how were the crews made up?
GA: There was one, two — four New Zealanders and three English.
CJ: So , how come the English were in a New Zealand squadron?
GA: The New Zealanders just didn’t have enough to fill the posts. And they had the gunners and a lot of the pilots but the rest they couldn’t fill.
CJ: And how was the, your crew made up? Did you choose each other or were you allocated to a crew?
GA: Well, it’s, it’s hard to tell. It’s — OTUs are very strange places. There’s one mess, one bar. You talk to people. You judge people and in my case I got into a very big poker game and after the poker game we decided that we ought to stay together.
CJ: And so did you train together as a crew before you went on operations?
GA: Oh yes. Yes. Quite a crew. Then we went to — we trained on Wellingtons first of all. Then we changed to Stirlings. And fortunately we didn’t do any damage in Stirlings because they changed us to Lancasters at the last minute. And I did thirty one operations. I did one extra you see.
CJ: So, the operations started when? Was it the beginning of —
GA: ’44.
CJ: ’44. Right.
GA: Yeah.
CJ: Ok.
GA: Yeah.
CJ: So the — and when you were going on operations how, how were you told and how did you prepare for it and what was the routine?
GA: Well, there was a thing called a Battle Order which was a sheet of paper. You got up in the morning. You looked at the Battle Order to see if you were on it. You could either — because there were a lot of daylights in 3 Group I was in, so it was either a daylight that day or one that night.
CJ: And how did you — how did the crew prepare the aircraft, and how did you get your information about the target and the route and so on?
GA: Well, you had a briefing. We were all in one room and the, all the various people — the met people, the bombing people and all the rest of them told you where the target was. What the ack-ack’s likely to be, what the fighters are likely to be, and the navigators got their winds and the wireless operators got their secret codes, and everybody got their information they needed. Then if it was a daylight you usually had lunch or you may have gone off an hour later. If it was a night one you tried to get some rest and then you always had the, the egg and bacon before you flew and away you went.
CJ: So, you say you did thirty-one operations.
GA: I did.
CJ: But a tour was usually thirty.
GA: Thirty. Yeah. I had to go with another crew and they were brand new. The target was Munich which they never found, and they killed themselves on the next op.
CJ: And how did the crews pass time between operations?
GA: Well, if we were free at a weekend we’d go to a pub and then go to a dance. Or if you were in the mess I suppose you had a drink and it [pause] you needed a lot of rest. That was the thing. Yeah.
CJ: And what was the feeling amongst the crew when you were going on an operation? Did you have to put worries aside and concentrate on the job?
GA: Yeah. I can’t say that [pause] — you hear so much about strain and worry and all the rest of it. I can’t say we experienced that. I think that we knew there was a job to be done and the sooner we got it over the better. We knew the odds. Four to one that we wouldn’t come back. We were aware of that and we got on with the job.
CJ: And what were the typical targets that you were on operations against?
GA: Oh, German.
CJ: And bombloads?
GA: Oh, we usually, I looked the other day and there was a lot of marshalling yards but I — we went on the famous Dresden raid and Chemnitz the following night. We did our last op which was, the last op’s always frightening and we thought it was going to be a doddle because it was gardening which means mine laying. But we were caught two flak ships, and when we got back we had thirty eight holes in the fuselage.
CJ: So, did the aircraft systems suffer any damage?
GA: No. No.
CJ: The hydraulics. No?
GA: No. We didn’t. We had another incident on a daylight when we were hit and we lost an engine. And of course we were in formation but all the formation went because they were faster than us and there were American fighters overhead that were supposed to protect us but they didn’t. They went too. So, we were all alone in daylight over Germany but we got away with that as well.
CJ: And are there any other raids you particularly remember? Any operations?
GA: We went to Wesel when they were crossing the Rhine and we used to bomb on a specialist radar called GH which was very accurate. And we got a letter from the Guards. We didn’t see the ground at all. We bombed on the GH. And we got a letter from a Guards officer thanking us for our accurate bombing and that. And another one was Saarbrücken. We saw lots of motor boats leaving the island as we bombed. We didn’t, but some of them went down and strafed them.
CJ: And I think — sorry, on operations what was the procedure then if you were attacked by a fighter?
GA: Well, you corkscrewed. We actually shot a Focke Wulf down. You dived and rolled and then you climbed and rolled the other way. I picked up the — they had a thing called Fishpond which was a radar which worked off the H2S and you could see any fighters on there. And I picked up a fighter and the gunners shot it down.
CJ: And I think your last raid was shortly before VE-Day. Do you remember what happened on VE-Day? What everybody’s feelings were?
GA: I was on leave, and I sent a telegram to the squadrons saying that, no I wasn’t on the squadron then, I was on Bomber Command Instructor School. I sent a telegram saying I wouldn’t be returning that day [laughs] Received a telegram back saying, ‘Fine.’
CJ: So, lots of celebrations.
GA: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CJ: And where were you posted after VE day? Did you continue with the squadron?
GA: No. No. I went, first of all I went to Bomber Command Instructor’s School and then I was made Commanding Officer of a signaller’s unit. And while I was there we received a notice saying that BOAC was starting up and they wanted crews to be seconded. And they said only those with a first class CO’s reference would get it. So, I applied and I hoped they didn’t notice the applicant and the CO had [laughs] had the same signature. And I was accepted so I joined BOAC for a while. Didn’t like it, and when I was demobbed I left BOAC and I joined a firm called Airwork Limited.
CJ: At BOAC what aircraft were you flying?
GA: Yorks.
CJ: And what routes?
GA: Yorks. From Hurn to Africa. Yeah.
CJ: Wow.
GA: And then I started training, pilot training then and I got my commercial pilot’s licence. And after that I flew right for many many years as a pilot.
CJ: And, again what aircraft were you flying and what routes were you on?
GA: Well, I flew Ambassadors. I flew Britannias. I flew Viscounts. I had about twenty different aircraft I flew and the very Ambassador that I flew is on show at Duxford. The very one. And then I came down here and flew DC4s for Invicta Airways.
CJ: And did you have a favourite amongst all those aircraft types?
GA: Oh yes. I loved the Britannia. Yeah. A beautiful aeroplane. Yes. Yeah.
CJ: So, why particularly the Britannia?
GA: It’s hard to tell. It was, it was a big prop jet and it was very responsive. Lovely to fly. And you could go at thirty thousand feet for twelve hours, you know and, you know with two hundred people on board, and it was a beautiful aeroplane.
CJ: Right. And when did you stop flying?
GA: Well, in about — I can’t remember. About ’70 I suppose I had a routine medical and they found that I had type 2 diabetes so I lost my licence. If I’d have got it now I wouldn’t have lost it because it’s not a failure anymore but it was then, and so I had to stop flying.
CJ: Oh.
GA: Yeah.
CJ: I’m going to step back a bit because I believe we’ve missed 622 Squadron.
GA: Well, 622. When I flew for Airwork the RAF couldn’t cope with trooping and all the rest of it, so they asked Airwork to form an auxiliary squadron which was 622. And we had Valettas and we took part in the Suez Campaign. That was 622.
CJ: Ok. Thank you. And after the war were you able to keep in touch with any of your crew? Did you have any reunions or —
GA: Yes. Yes. I, the navigator and I were very close. The engineer went to America. All the rest of them went home but they’ve all died except Buzz Spillman. But I kept in touch with him up ‘til last year. But he’s getting dementia now so we’ve stopped.
CJ: And did you have, were there any squadron reunions organised?
GA: Well, they were all in New Zealand. What — it was strange. The navigator and I did a caravan holiday because we wanted to visit the old Mepal where we were based. And we went there and they said, ‘Are you coming down for the reunion next week?’ And we said, ‘What reunion?’ They said, ‘75.’ That was a hell of a coincidence but unfortunately neither of us could do it, you see. So —
CJ: And do you have any feelings about the way Bomber Command was treated after the war?
GA: I’m disgusted the way it was treated after the war. Yeah. To get [pause] recent I was very fortunate. When they gave out the clasp, I was one of the twenty that was invited to Downing Street to be given it to by the Prime Minister. And that was nice but to have that nasty little clasp instead of a medal all those years later was, was very, very upsetting. Yeah.
CJ: And have you been to the Memorial at Green Park?
GA: Yeah. I have. Several times. Yeah. Yeah.
CJ: Were you, were you invited to the opening?
GA: I was there.
CJ: The unveiling.
GA: I was there. Yes.
CJ: So did you manage to meet any dignitaries?
GA: No. I met a couple of New Zealanders that came over for it. But yeah it was a lovely day.
CJ: Ok. Well, we’re holding this interview at the Spitfire Memorial Museum at Manston where I think you’re a volunteer. Would you like to tell us how you became involved with that?
GA: Well, some years ago I wanted something to do and I’d always been interested in the museum. I’d visited it for years. And I said I’d like to become a volunteer and so recently I’ve been made a trustee and my job is to get the money together because we want a Spitfire simulator. And my job is to get the money together and to date I’ve got, within a few weeks this, I’ve got five thousand three hundred pounds. It’s not enough but it’s a big start for it, and we visited other simulators to see what they were like and what we should get. And the cockpit’s arriving on Monday so we’re getting there.
CJ: And what’s the, what sort of questions and comments do you get when you have school trips here?
GA: Oh, they ask all sorts of things. ‘What was it like?’ is the one which you can never answer [laughs] You know, you get asked everything and I like the school kids coming. I had, I had the party of Dutch and English last Saturday come which I took around, and I go out to schools and they come here.
CJ: Well, thank you very much for talking to us today and for giving us this interview.
GA: That’s a pleasure.
CJ: That’s a great insight. Thank you very much.
GA: Ok.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Gerald Joseph Abrahams
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Chris Johnson
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-06-17
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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AAbrahamsGJ170617
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Pending review
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00:19:02 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
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Gerald Abrahams was sixteen when war was declared. He volunteered for the RAF the day after the Armstrong Vickers factory where he worked was targeted by the Luftwaffe who bombed the local school resulting in the deaths of many children. He trained as a wireless operator and was posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. He and his crewmates were very aware of the poor odds of survival. On their last operation they came under fire from an anti-aircraft fire ship and found on return to base that there were thirty-eight holes in the fuselage. Gerald continued flying after the war and ultimately became a commercial pilot. He flew about twenty different aircraft including Yorks, Britannias, Viscounts and DC4s.
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Julie Williams
Chris Johnson
622 Squadron
75 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
crewing up
Fw 190
Gee
Lancaster
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
RAF Mepal
Spitfire
training
wireless operator
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/467/8350/ABantingP160315.2.mp3
b7b96bfe67cf2c1ebbc167ca5bd83878
Dublin Core
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Title
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Banting, Peter
P Banting
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Banting, P
Description
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Three items. An oral history interview with Peter Banting (b. 1923, 1399810 Royal Air Force) his log book and a a piece of material containing signatures.
He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 75 and 7 Squadrons.
Date
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2016-03-15
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
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This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Meanwell. The interviewee is Peter Banting. The interview is taking place at Mr Banting’s home in East Molesey on the 14th, 15th of March 2016.
DM : Ok if we start off with when you were born and where you were brought up.
PB : Well I was born in 1923 and I was brought up in Brixton. I was born in Brixton too.
DM : Right ok, and tell me, tell me a little about what lead you to join the Air Force and when you actually joined up.
PB : Well I was a founder member of the Cadet Corps and that was started, I believe, in about 1940, I believe, and I was one of the first to join it in Brixton. It was number 50F ATC and I remember it well going there and many people, many people of my age were there as well, and ‘Will I get in?’ I said.’ Will I get in?’ And they did accept me and that’s how it all started.
DM : Did you actually do any flying in the ATC?
PB : No, no, no, but there was one really wonderful experience we had. We attended Biggin Hill Aerodrome, that would be 1941, and okay the Battle of Britain was over but they were doing, they were going over to France low level, very, very dangerous and that’s when I had my first trip actually. I was very fortunate to go up in a Blenheim. They, they allowed us to go up in a Blenheim. It was wonderful. Yes, and we saw, there was a Spitfire squadron, and we saw it coming in and land. Marvellous, marvellous experience. We were there for two weeks.
DM : Ok -
PB : Hmm.
DM : So then you joined up? When did you actually join up?
PB : July 1942.
DM : Right.
PB : Yes.
DM : And what was the-?
PB : No, Sorry, actually, I joined up in December 41 and I wasn’t called up until July 42.
DM : Right
PB : Yes. St John’s Wood. We all went to St John’s Wood.
DM : Right. Did you have a sort of ambition when you joined up what you thought you’d like to do?
PB : Erm, I just wanted to fly with the RAF. I, it was day-to-day. You know? One took one day as it came and that was it, and enjoyed it and from that day on, I had a wonderful experience. I love the RAF [laugh] still do. [laugh] and I’m a member of the RAF Club at that.
DM : So, when you were actually called up, which was, you said, July-
PB : Yes, yes.
DM : What actually happened then?
PB : Well, we went to St John’s Wood, where the cricket field was, and were stationed there and after that we went to Ludlow, I remember. We camped at Ludlow it was summer and we were all in tents and that decided where we would go for ITW (Initial Training Wing), and there was a corporal in our tent, and he asked me where I wanted to go. And I said ‘I’d like to go to Cambridge.’ He said ‘Right and I did.’ [laugh] And he fixed it and I went to Cambridge and had a lovely time in Cambridge, wonderful, with the Initial Training Wing. I think we were about three months there, yeah three months. And after that, after the three months initial training where you had certain exams, you were taught to dismantle a Browning gun and put it all altogether again, Morse code, navigation, and elementary stuff you know that sort of thing and after that we were sent to an Elementary Flying Training School for selection as to whether you’d be a pilot, navigator or a bomb aimer and that’s when, that was in Oxford. I got there in December, erm that would have been December 1942 and we were tested, we had I suppose I don’t know how many hours, I suppose, about thirty hours on Tiger Moths and I was tested and very fortunately I made a perfect circuit and bump and I was selected to be a pilot. I didn’t know that for a long time we were sent to Manchester, the training centre in Manchester and that decided - and we were all lined up one day and we all carefully listened to what he was going to say, he said and he called out all these names and my name came out, ‘Banting. Pilot.’ I was delighted [laugh] of course. And then I think there were after Manchester we were sent to up to Scotland and there when we got to Scotland by train, we saw outside in the sea the ‘Queen Elizabeth’ and I mean, there was a cheer when we saw it. We saw this ship and thought ‘My God. Is this going to take us to Canada? And it did.’ And it was a four-and a-half hour trip, a four-and-a-half day trip and all the way through we were a bit concerned ‘cause some in ’43 that’s when the U-boats really, were really active, but - we the ship zig-zagged all the way through and I suppose a normal journey would have taken three days and we took four-and-a-half days and we landed at Halifax and from Halifax after a few days I was sent out to, erm, to DeWinten Flying School. And then I got chicken pox and I had, I think it was, two weeks leave in Vancouver. What a trip that was. They made such a fuss of us. Absolutely wonderful. And came back and I got scarlet fever and I couldn’t fly a bloody thing. I was absolutely hopeless. So unfortunately, or fortunately I think, it probably saved my life, but fortunately I was regraded to be bomb aimer and I went on a bomb aimers course. And sent to Lethbridge for the bombing course. And what year would that have been? I’m trying to think now, that would be, er, ’43 March ’43. That would be the summer of ’43 so until that took most of the summer. And from then, having completed that course went to Edmonton in Canada for navigation course and bomb aiming course and the rest of it. So I finished in December 1943 in Canada. Came back and to Monkton, which is the centre for air crew to be despatched back to Britain. And we were told under no circumstances, we had two weeks leave, under no circumstances will you be allowed to go past the barrier to get to America. Don’t try it. Well that was a challenge [laugh] and I knew you had to have it was called a short H form, and I got this short H form and I filled in everything with everyone’s agreement that we should go and a great friend of mine Pat Russell was with me and I had armed with this form we went to the barrier and there was an American there. And he said ‘Right. I’ll just phone your base and see if it’s ok.’ Left me on my own and when back to the phone completely out of sight and I thought God this is it we’re going to be despatched back. That was a nice try. He came back and said ‘Ok, you’re ok.’ In other words he was trying, to see, to see if we’d escaped. So we got on the train and we had a most wonderful time in New York where we were entertained by a family and stayed with them and that was an experience to be in New York in 1944 it was then. Wonderful. And that was an experience in itself, and we came back, when we came back to Monkton, we, erm, we went, went to the port and there was a ship waiting and it was The Andes. It was called The Andes. Nothing like the QE, nothing at all [laugh]. I mean it really was. It was a hell ship. We were in hammocks and they were crowded into a tiny area and that took a bit longer. That took six days ‘cause it was slower and we got back to Liverpool I think it was. Came back to a centre. Now after this it gets a bit blurred and my memory fades on this but, erm, I remember we went to somewhere up north near Northumbria near there for the centre. Came back and I might refer to my logbook now It might give a little indication of what happened after that [turning of pages] Lethbridge AFU [turning of pages] [whistling] Sorry to keep you waiting. But it’s -
DM : No no.
PB : It’s all here somewhere. Oh yes, I remember now we went to Harrogate. We went to Harrogate as a centre which decided where we’d crew up. And we were all there together, pilots, navigators, bomb-aimers and I was crewed up with somebody called Rothwell. My pilot an Australian, and a very tall man. A blonde man, and he, I found out later he was three years younger than me. Now had I known then he should have treated me with greater respect , he was three years younger than me. He didn’t at all. Anyways he was a great chap and you know I still see him. He’s in America. [pause]
DM : And off we go,
PB : And I still see him. He comes over regularly. He’s a great chap and he brought his son once and I remember when his son was there, we went to a little pub, and had a look in the river. A very lovely day and it brought it all back and I remember describing one of the episodes to, to his son and he was very pleased with that. Anyway the other members of the crew, if I remember, we had Paddy Key at rear gunner. He was a Northern Ireland guy. Erm, John Turner mid upper gunner, erm Wellard was the wireless operator. Bob Wellard he was much older than us and he was called Pop ‘cause he was twenty-eight. And a nice guy, twenty-eight, well he was twenty-eight then, so if he was twenty-eight then, five years older than me. So I’m ninety-two he’d be- he’d be over a hundred so I doubt very much if he is still with us. Navigator he got scarlet fever and he only did five ops with us and he disappeared from the scene. I can’t remember his name. And, of course, Jack Pond was the engineer and Ken Rothwell was our skipper. And that was the crew. [coughs] So we crewed up and I think we went very shortly after that to Operational Training Units on Ansons. The only thing about Ansons that I detested I had to wind down the undercarriage, you know. That was a rotten job. And that was, I don’t know how long, probably about two months there at Operational Training and then we went to Chedburgh for the heavy conversion unit from Ansons to heavies. They were Stirlings. And I don’t, can’t remember how long we were there but to cut a long story short we ended up at 75 New Zealand Squadron, Mepal, that would be December 1944. But our first ops weren’t until January 1945 and I going out of my log book really ‘cause that picks it up [turning of pages] 75 New Zealand Squadron [turning of pages]. Here we go. My first operation was on the 22nd of January 1945 and the skipper was the commander. His name was Wing Commander Baygent [?]. He was a New Zealander. Now I discovered later I didn’t realise this, this is quite amazing. I looked at this guy and I’m like oh god he’s a very old guy, well-experienced and I’m ok. I learnt later he was the same age as me. We had a Wing Commander Baygent Commanding Officer of the 75 New Zealand Squadron and he was twenty-one. I was absolutely amazed at that. I didn’t discover that until much later. But that first operation, I mean when I went up and I saw a wall of flak in front of me at the target, the target was Duisburg on the Rhine. And when I saw this wall of flak I thought ‘My God. How the bloody hell we going to get out of that?’ And it was really quite, you know, that wasn’t a nice experience. But he was a good pilot but there’s one thing that he did do, that was very naughty actually. We got over, I dropped the bombs on the target and then he put the aircraft down in nosedive to get out of the flak. Now you’re not supposed to that, you’re supposed to fly straight and level. So when you’re over the target you take a photograph of where the bombs had gone. Now according to the records, when it was later, all my bombs dropped in the river because he the angle of the aircraft, you see, was such that it photographed what was behind and not in front so I never really forgave him for that but he got us out of it anyway. That’s the main thing. So that was my first op 22nd of January. Next one was on the 28th and we did them quite regularly, 28th, 29th and going all the way though about two or three a week. Now I’ve all the ones listed here, which we won’t do. On the 28th of January went to Cologne. All our targets were military targets. We didn’t carpet bomb and I’m very glad to say that. And all our targets because of the landings and the military operations going on behind the Rhine and it was decided that we’d bomb things like railway junctions mainly railway junctions, most of our targets were railway junctions and very rarely factories or anything like that. So that’s what we did mainly. Now 28th of January Cologne. Then 29th of January Krefeld and I notice it took to get there five, five-and-a-half hours to get there and back from Krefeld. [Turning of pages] I won’t list them all, but included are Monchengladbach, Wiesbaden, Dortmund, and then very sadly I notice on the 16th of February 1945 the New Zealand squadron, my best mate Pilkington was shot down and I got a note here when it happened. It was on the 16th of February on a trip to Dortmund. Now after that Wessel, we went to Wesel, now Wesel was very much in the papers at the time because that it was a key centre for troops to, apparently it was a centre for troops to rest before they went back to the front. Wessel, Dortmund, Gelsenkirchen, Kamen, Karmen, Wanne Eickel and then I, please forgive lack of German accent, my German accent is appalling, I don’t know any German at all. Not like my grandson. Salzbergen, Dessau, Gelsenkirchen, Essen. Now Essen I got a note here, this is, this is fascinating. This was an amazing, what an experience that was. It was biggest daylight raid in the history of the RAF. I don’t know how many, it doesn’t say how many aircraft. I did note that. It was the 11th of March 1945 and what an amazing sight that was. Over the clouds, bright, bright sun of course, and to see these aircraft. It did seem, I don’t know how many there were but it seemed like a million to me. It was absolutely incredible. You know tail to tail and wing to wing. That was an amazing experience. And unfortunately during that we saw quite a few of them shot down when we got over Germany ‘cause it was daylight. [Turning of pages] Now after that the skipper came and had a little talk to us. He said : ‘Now look you’re doing quite well, how do you feel about going over to Pathfinders?’ So we had a little chat and I said ’That’s great, you know. Let’s go to Pathfinders.’ So we were then sent to Pathfinder Night Training Unit at Warboys.
[Door bell].
PB : We were at the Pathfinders Unit Warboys from the 17th of March ’45 until the 31st of March when we were posted the 7 Squadron at Oakington. Now coming back to Pathfinding Night Training, the skipper there was Group Captain Mahaddie D.S.O., D.F.C, A.F.C, S.C.F.C., and etc etc etc. Now we really got very friendly with him after the war with 7 Squadron with the Pathfinder Association and at one of the, that’s a bit out of sequence but never mind, he did give us the book and inscribe it. I’ll read out the inscription. He said: Signed for Peter Banting and the child bride Hazel [cough] with my warmest regards the Pathfinder battle cry – Press on Regardless. Hamish, RAF Wyton. That was written on the 15th of August 1992. So that was that. So coming back to reality, we were posted to 7 Squadron and our first operation there was on the 2nd of April to Nordhausen, and Pathfinders are so different. If I can briefly describe our operations on Pathfinders. We went in, the first Pathfinders went in and dropped illuminating flares over the target, there was a general illumination, then there was back-up where they dropped coloured flares on the target so that was really pinpointed. The master bomber up above was usually in a Mosquito and he was directing incoming aircraft onto the target. So the first ones that came in dropped it accurately on the target, now if it drifted away backers up drifted different coloured flares onto the target. So there’s a new target which was seen by the master bomber up above and he redirected the aircraft onto the correct coloured target. That’s how it worked, but the thing is with Pathfinders was we dropped. We dropped these illuminating flares and you know whatever but we have to go round again and drop the bombs. So every trip that we did was counted two ops really and that’s why after thirty ops, normally everyone got a D.F.C. or a D.F.M. and who did that on Pathfinders. Now coming to what we actually did again, it’s coming near to the end of the war isn’t it? North of Hamburg, I won’t describe them all, Hamburg, Kiel now, we did go to Kiel. Now the interesting thing about Kiel. At Kiel there was a German battleship. It was a cross between a cruiser and a battleship called the Deutschland. Now I am convinced that I sunk it like everybody else who on that trip but it was sunk at that trip and I’m sure I did it you never know do you? So, that was Kiel and we went to Kiel again on the 13th of April but by then the battleship was sunk so we weren’t so worried about that. We were told when we went to Potsdam that Hitler was probably there, that was on the 14th of April and we were told that he was likely to be there, so we dropped our bombs very accurately on where he was. Bremen, and then on 24th of April that was it. I was awarded the Pathfinder badge on the 26th of May 1945 after the war. But the most memorable trips to me were after the war. The Dutch were starving in May 1945 and it was decided that they would receive an airdrop of food. And on the 4th of May 1945 we went to Rotterdam and dropped food for them, and that was quite amazing and it was an enormous target area and they had in white stone around the target area. Thank you, after that we went to Lubeck and Juvencourt, landed in Germany picked up prisoners of war and brought them back. That was quite amazing. That was a wonderful experience, and when I was at Lubeck I raided the German store brought back a perfect German uniform and a helmet. Now I, later I very carefully packed this German uniform away in a brown bag and put it in the loft to keep it safe, and then a couple of months later I thougt: I’ll have a look at it, and a shower of moths came out, totally ruined. That was that, so unfortunately no more German uniform and I gave the German helmet away, but I’ve still got an armband somewhere or other, a German armband. [Turning of pages] And so that was really the end of my flying experiences during the war. We, then of course, after the war, after the European war that is, we were training as the Tiger Force to go out to India to fight the Japanese. We were trained at low level bombing but nevertheless August came and the end of the war. That was it. But I was in the RAF until discharged, and really I wasn’t really doing very much after that. I was very fortunate to be maintained on to 7 Squadron and funny enough 7 Squadron as a whole after the war went back to Mepal where 75 New Zealand, 75 New Zealand, Squadron was. So I had a few girlfriends there and met up with them again too [laugh]. So that’s really the war experience, my total war experiences.
DM : So we came to the end of the war came to, August Victory in Japan, did ever think about staying in the Air Force? Did you ever consider that?
PB : Well, funnily enough at the end of the war I ended up as a Warrant Officer, I had an interview with the Commanding Officer. He said ‘Look, maybe you’d like a commission but it’d mean signing on for a couple of years. Would you like to do that?’ I thought it over and said ; ‘No, but very, very I’m glad you’ve done that I was very honoured, but I do feel that I’ve got to get back to what I want to do which is architecture and being an architect and that was that. And that’s what I did, an architect after six years training. And I met my wife, my wife of long years standing lived next door to me in Brixton and we got engaged, but I said to her: ‘Look, do you mind? You’ve got a long wait.’ She didn’t mind. So it was a long course, it was, how long was it? It was seven-year course really, well really, five years really on studying and part of it was when I was working, and we got married in 1951. Yes, but the other part of all this after the war was ‘The Pathfinder Association’. I was on a train going into London once when I saw a guy opposite me had a Pathfinder tie, very distinctive blue with, we used to call it, a shite hawk, a yellow eagle on his tie. And I said: ‘Are you a Pathfinder?’ And he said: ‘Yes.’ I said: ‘So was I.’ He said: ‘What squadron?’ So I told him. He said : ‘Well come and see us.’ And he was the secretary of the Pathfinders Association Jimmy Hughes, and we became great buddies and we used to go out regularly and I used to go up to the RAF Club at- I wasn’t a member then, and my wife came with me to the RAF club and we became great buddies, and his wife also was also heavily involved.
DM : So when you, when you when became a member of 7 Squadron Pathfinders-
PB : Yes, Yes.
DM : What, what did the missions entail for you? Was there something specific you did on each mission? Was it all a mish-mash?
PB : Oh no, it was all very carefully controlled. Each member of the team had his own particular job but coming to my job. Erm I had to, when I went through France I was responsible for the radar navigation. At that time had a very, very, very excellent radar system which consisted of H2S which was a circular screen which showed exactly where we were on a map and Gee where we were accurately pinpointed. But when we got to the target we were all briefed on what we had to do, and it varied enormously, we were either marking targets either, er, either giving (sorry) yes, we either had to mark targets or illuminate the targets. Each crew was given their specific job at the time, you either had to mark the targets back up with flares, illuminate the target and we were all given a different job at a different time. We all had our own specific job at that particular time and it varied. Each trip we had, we had different things to do. Either illumination or marking targets or backing up flares. It was always different. It was always specific, but every time once we’d down it, we have to back round again and drop the bombs. And that, that was a bit painful, but nevertheless we did it. And, of course, the flak was really concentrated on those specific areas we were at. That’s briefly what we did. It was a wonderful crew. Bob Wellard what he used to do, always used to do was put on AFM, all the way, all the way through, over France, even over Germany sometimes – The American Forces Network. And there was always the same disc jockey pushing out the same old things, you know, the same old things we always used to listen to. I [unclear] Glenn Miller, of course, and that, that was a good experience. We liked that. But coming back to what we actually did, mid-upper gunner was wonderful really, he, we saw Focke-Wulf coming at us once, and I can’t remember where the target was at that time but the Focke-Wulf came at us and made a burst and disappeared from view. We don’t know if he was frightened or lost his way, I don’t know. And that was pretty awful but the worst experience I think we ever had was, I don’t know the target, but the Germans had a radar system. It was a big blue light that illuminated a very great area and picked up most aircraft. We were on our own and this blue light picked us up, once it picked us up all the searchlights in bloody Germany came in on us, and once they came in on you, they no matter where you flew another battery of searchlights picked you up. So we had these searchlights, we must have been, I think, I think it must have at least ten minutes. We had these detailed searchlights on us and the, I could hardly see I was blinded by them. And we came back that night like a bloody colander. And the rear-gunner at the back, I don’t know how he survived, ‘cause the tail plane was virtually shot to pieces. I think that was the worse thing we ever had. But Ken Rothwell what a pilot. He, what we called, corkscrewed and when you corkscrew a Lancaster, and we had a full bomb load at the time, that made it worse. You go down to the left, to the port, and then you turn-around and climb up to the starboard, to the right, up again to the port and then you climb up again to the port and then down and he evaded them. I don’t know how he did it, but he evaded them.
DM : Were all the crew N.C.O.’s? Or were..
PB : Actually the skipper he got a commission.
DM : Right.
PB : Yes.
DM : Did that change the dynamics at all.
PB : Not at all. No, he was a buddy. I mean, I think it was quite wrong in a way. The Americans didn’t see it that way, who nearly all got commissions. But we were all as one, you know really. It didn’t matter what rank you were. He was the pilot, you were the bomb aimer and there was a navigator there. The rest were N.C.O.’s, yes, yes.
DM : Did you, when you, see, from what you said earlier on, you kept the same crew apart from the navigator, who got scarlet fever?
PB : Yes. Yes that’s right.
DM : But other than that the same crew all the way through.
PB : All the way through.
DM : 75 Squadron and 7 Squadron.
PB : Yes, yes.
DM : So did you use to socialise off base as well as on base?
PB : Oh yes.
DM : Did you go to the pub?
PB : Oh, we went to the pub. Oh yes, we all went to the pub together. We had a great time. It was a lovely war. It was wonderful really when I think of those guys on the ground who were, you know, there battling away constantly in danger. We were in danger some of the time. The rest of the time we had a good life, came back to our bunks, and you know, and well fed when we came back. We had an aircrews’ breakfast which er, which consisted of bacon and eggs, and a tot of brandy. That was great, yeah.
DM : Will you, when you, I don’t know if you can remember particularly, but were there perhaps any missions early on when you were filled with trepidation?
PB : Oh, yes. Well there were trips when you lost an engine and came back on three engines. We had a hang-up once, we came back and the skipper said : ‘Don’t drop it on land, go over, drop in the Channel.’ And fortunately, it went off. It landed in the Channel. And I went back to the [unclear] officer and said : ‘There’s something wrong with that bomb release system.’ And he said : ‘Well, I will check it out.’ And he checked it out, and came back and said : ‘No. It’s perfect. There’s nothing wrong with it.’ Went on leave and the aircraft blew up in mid-air. The whole crew were killed. So, so that was terrible. So there was something wrong with it, but never found out what caused it.
DM : Did you ever have problems with fog when you came back?
PB : No. No. No, we always came back, luckily, when the weather forecast was excellent. We usually came back at night, of course. We were told though that the Germans at night were waiting above when we landed to see if they could knock out any Lancasters when we landed. We didn’t see any though.
DM : I was going to ask if you any trouble with intruders, but you never saw any?
PB : No.
DM : Or knew of anything?
PB : No. None at all. No. I think they were all busy fighting Russia. [laugh] Anyway we didn’t see that.
DM : So was it ’46 that you actually came out of the air force? When was that?
PB : September ’46.
DM : ’46. That’s when you resumed your training?
PB : Well, I started my training.
DM : Started your training.
PB : I wanted to be and I was going to be, and I started my training, as an, as an architect. I went to the Brixton School of Building, which was just around the corner funnily enough - So I had to walk there.
DM : So was that something you’d wanted to do before you joined the air force?
PB : No, not really. No, no. I didn’t know what I was going to do. Before I joined the air-force I very fortunate I got a job at the Ministry of Aircraft Production on Millbank. I must have been, I was seventeen. Yes, I was seventeen. And I joined the air force then when I was the Ministry of Aircraft Production. Wonderful job, counting the aircraft as they came out of the factory, literally. And I had access to all these figures, and they had accurate estimates of what should be produced and the factory ones that were produced. And I could see how many Hurricanes, Halifaxes, Spitfires, not Lancasters, were produced every, every week. And I was in the direct, in the fort, the very direction of aircraft production, which was the first floor of Millbank. I often go back, but it’s all changed now. They’ve taken it all away. It’s all gone They’ve gutted it and done again. They’ve really, really started the whole thing all over again.
DM : So, I imagine from what you’re saying it was while you were in the air force you, sort of, firmed up the idea that you would like to train to be an architect.
PB : I think, I think oh yes, yes.
DM : Any particular reason for that?
PB : Well I like to say I knocked them all down so I’m building them all back up again, but it wasn’t that at all. [laugh]. No, it wasn’t that. I just felt that I could draw and I felt I’d like to do it. And luckily I found the right niche.
PB : So after the war, you get a career, you get a wife and then a family, I imagine. Did you keep in touch with the crew or any other colleagues from the air force.
PB : Only Ken. And I’ll tell you how this happened. I knew Ken was an Australian. So I phoned up the Australian Pathfinder Association, and they said: ‘Oh Ken, yes we know who he is. Yes, he’s living in America now.’ So I said: ‘Whereabouts?’ He said: ‘New England.’ So I phoned up every Rothwell there was in New England and I got all sorts of funny replies. Mostly American. And then one day I said: ‘This is a voice from the past. You probably don’t know me.’ He said: ‘Hello Peter.’ He knew my voice. Huh. That’s how it started. And we’re friends now, we still see him. He came over, he used to come over here regularly to march at the Cenotaph. I still march every year at the Cenotaph. And he used to come over, but he’s my age, of course, and he finds it difficult to get around, like I do. So he doesn’t do that anymore. Great family. Got to know them. He’s been in this room.
DM : What career path did he follow?
PB : He was, he was the head of a college, in, I don’t know exactly what. But he was the head of a college in New England. He went into teaching. He met his wife in Sweden when he went on holiday once, I believe. And she’s American. Hmm, yeah.
DM : So, after the, after the war was there a period in your life when, obviously you would never forget what had happened in the air force and your time in Bomber Command, but did you, sort of, move away from it, and then perhaps come back to it and then join associations later?
PB : I put it right out of my mind. It was another world. Disappeared. And right up until fairly recently been totally out of my mind, except when Ken comes over. That brings it back a bit. But, no, it’s another world. Every life has its cycles and that was a cycle that disappeared. And this is my own particular cycle now, it’s been like that since the end of the war. No, I don’t think of it. I very rarely think of it. It’s another world. Another person. In fact, I often think of that person who did those things as my own son you know, and you know, nothing to do with me. Strange, but no another episode totally forgotten, and this brings it all back.
DM : Hmm.
PB : And I get a bit emotional about it now I’m afraid but that’s the way it was. Hmm.
DM : Did you go to the dedication of the memorial in London?
PB : Yes, we did. We did do that. My wife and I went to the dedication. And because I was, was signing books. I, because, was signing books for an organisation that was raising money for the maintenance of it. Because I was signing books I was invited with my wife. And when we were there, suddenly it was quite silent and suddenly there was, some of us heard a noise and we looked around and it was a Lancaster coming over. It was only those who looked around that were aircrew that recognised that sound. This Lancaster came over and dropped all these poppies. Wonderful.
DM : So, you didn’t know that was going to happen?
PB : No, no, no. It was out of the blue. Yeah great experience. Yeah, I like the memorial very much, but I find one fault with the sculptures. They all look about thirty-five or forty. We weren’t that age. All of us were kids. Twenty-one.
DM : Yeah, I think -
PB : Twenty-two.
DM: - like when you see your representation in the films. Most of the actors are far too old.
PB : Yeah. It’s a lovely memorial. I think, ‘Thank God it’s there,’ but the figures there I didn’t recognise.
DM : Do you have any opinions on how Bomber Command were treated after the war? As opposed to other people who had fought in it on other fronts and other-
PB : We were disappointed because we were in the same dangers as any other members of the forces, and we did feel a little bit let down that we weren’t recognised. And I think it was political football in a way, and I think it was all to do with the bombing of areas which were civilian occupied and I doubt it ever involved in that, anyway. Nevertheless it was a bit of let-down, yeah I felt that.
DM : So perhaps, whilst there’s recognition now, it’s very late because a lot of the people who survived the war are no longer with us.
PB : Yes, it is. Yes. The wonderful people who did make a great thing of thing of this, I’m very glad they did. I’m very grateful to them. But much later, of course, it was recognised and we were awarded a clasp and I was very honoured to be invited to Number 10 Downing Street by the Prime Minister with many others to receive the clasp. And that was an amazing experience. Going up the staircase with all the former Prime Ministers going up to the top floor and the Prime Minster. Gave a wonderful speech and he, he summarised the losses which was roughly a hundred-and-fifty thousand took part and fifty thousand died, fifty-five thousand died, and he knew all these facts and he knew all the statistics. And after the little presentation he came up to us and gave us the clasp. We didn’t go up to him, he came up to us. That was magnificent and then we were ushered into another room where there were tables set out and there were about five to each table, and there was a vacant seat at each table. I sat down at one with my wife, and shortly after he came and sat next to me and I was delighted with chatting away. And I said to him: ‘When the coach came in they searched for bombs and underneath the coach, you know, it’s very flat and there could have been bombs there so they searched for them.’ And I said to him later at the table, I said: ‘They looked for bombs under here. You need have bothered as we’re used to having bombs underneath us.’ And he thought that was quite funny. And had lovely meal there and that was wonderful. That was tremendous. That was a long living experience with me. Yeah. Yes my wife has been stalwart with me since my training days in the RAF, she lived next door to me, and I had wonderful letters and we kept this correspondence, she was only a child then you see. She was only twelve. When I was seventeen she was five years younger than me, and I’d always thought of her as a child and then much later she grew up and I grew up a bit more and we did get married in 1951 and very happily too. She’s till upstairs [laugh]. And very happily married. We’ve had three children. Unfortunately my son died, he went to America and he got a job in America and he was an accountant with Airbus, and he contracted cancer, unfortunately. But the other two girls are doing well, one of them is an architect like myself and the other is a very senior, very senior officer in the National Health Service. Yes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Peter Banting
Creator
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David Meanwell
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-03-15
Format
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00:43:28 audio recording
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ABantingP160315
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
Type
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Sound
Description
An account of the resource
Peter Banting grew up in London and was a member of the Air Training Corps before he volunteered for the Royal Air Force. After training he flew operations with 75 Squadron from RAF Mepal and 7 Squadron RAF Oakington. After the war he trained to be an architect.
Contributor
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Gemma Clapton
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Suffolk
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
7 Squadron
75 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bomb aimer
bombing
crewing up
fear
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Master Bomber
memorial
Mosquito
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
perception of bombing war
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Mepal
RAF Oakington
target indicator
Tiger force
Tiger Moth
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2657/46417/BRobinsonS20240219.1.pdf
f73dc37f2c271f8d92265a28e59b5e2e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Robinson, Septimus
Description
An account of the resource
21 items. The collection concerns Septimus Robinson (1915 - 1986) and contains his birth certificates, log book and several personal and target photographs. Septimus Robinson flew as a bomb aimer with 75 Squadron to targets in the Ruhr and further east, including Dresden on Operation Thunderclap.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Robinson and catalogued by Andy Fitter.
Date
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2018-03-21
Identifier
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Robinson, S
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Septimus Robinson service history
Description
An account of the resource
A brief history of Septimus Robinson's RAF career.
Identifier
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BRobinsonS20240219
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
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David Robinson
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Photograph
Format
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One page document with photographs
11 OTU
75 Squadron
aircrew
bomb aimer
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Kirkham
RAF Mepal
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/513/8744/AGoldstrawBJ160827.2.mp3
8eaf418c74d7ce5c9c773b6e4cd64067
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Goldstraw, John Basil
John B Goldstraw
J B Goldstraw
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Goldstraw, BJ
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Basil Goldstraw (1925 - 2023). He served as a fitter with 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal, before being posted to Singapore.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DB. I am interviewing Basil John Goldstraw at his home a Haywards Heath on the 27th of August 2016 at 1600. Em Basil I would like you to tell me a little about your experiences before, during and after the war.
BG. Can I just say, you got, when you said legally you have got to use your first, John, legally everything comes to me either JB, sometimes it comes Basil, the people who know, sometimes it comes Mr John. I got one this morning Mr John Goldstraw, which I don’t like. I have always known, everybody knows me as Basil, they cut it short Bas you see and that’s how I sign myself to my friends and Glen and everybody like that you see or sometimes I just say Basil. So it is just that it doesn’t sound right to say it the wrong way round. I am being picky on the one thing that.
DG. Talking today to John Basil known as Bas or Basil Goldstraw at his home in Haywards Heath on the 27th of August 2016 at 1600. Basil as you like to be know best, would you like to tell me about your experiences during the war, before, during and after?
BG. Yep; I was put out leaving me finger on it won’t I.
DB. Here you go.
BG. So that is working now? Right, em having always had an interest in the Air Force eh when war broke out I decided that A I didn’t want to be a Sailor, I didn’t want to be a foot slogger. So I thought the best thing I could do was follow partly an ambition and I went to Dover Street in Manchester at the age of seventeen and volunteered and was accepted for the RAF. My call up papers, my first place of residence was George Street in Edinburgh, rather remember this well because a lad from my home town was due to join up the day after me and his Mum came round to see me and said could he join, could he come along as company? I remember, we got into Edinburgh, we caught a tram, he was a bit slow and I remember him chasing down eh the street, following the tram until we managed to scramble him back on board.[laugh] From George Street the following morning we were trained to Arbroath and our residence was the Old Jute Mills in Arbroath. This is where the basic training took place eh and well remembered because it was an enormous building. Eh a bit like one of the Cotton Mills with everything moved out and there were probably a hundred, a hundred and twenty people living in there. Just as an aside I remember my Mum saying to me, make sure your clothes are aired and anybody who was at the Jute Mills at Arbroath will remember the difficulty we had getting our clothes dry. Every morning we had to put our, fold our blankets, fold our biscuits, put the blankets round the biscuits and do like everybody else had to do, towel and irons for inspection, hiding our laundry out of the sight of the NCO. In the evening we could hang the clothes out and the only way you could really get them dry and this applied to everybody not just me, was to fold your laundry between the sheets and sleep on it overnight and they got reasonably dry, eh it was quite cold but we survived and I can’t remember how long we stayed there but the next port of call for me was Blackpool and 3 S of TT at Squires Gate. Being in Blackpool we were stationed in Civvy Billets and I well remember the lady we stayed with, her name was Bardsley, Mrs Bardsley and a very nice person. There were three of us shared the one bedroom eh, the chap who joined with me from my home town he was one of the inmates, and another chap was Len Kennedy who we became great friends. He actually when the course finished he was posted to a Halifax Squadron in eh Pocklington. The lad from Loxton his name was Perkins eh he became ill so we parted company there from the eh, [unclear] training eh. I am a little bit, can’t remember actually to what happened but I done the Fitters Course and from there I was eh posted to Mepal, 75 NZ Squadron. Eh whilst I had been on the Fitters Course or after the Fitters Course I did volunteer for Aircrew and was accepted. Whilst at Meeple I had to go into sick quarters and then was transferred to the RAF Hospital in Ely from which they done a good job. When I came out the Surgeon said young man you are not going to fly anywhere. Always puzzled me why they didn’t regrade me medically and they I never did, they never did find out really what was the matter. It was only until after the war I think about 1953 or 56 this was diagnosed at St Marys Hospital in Manchester. The time spent at Mepal, I suppose was like anywhere else there were good days and bad days. Eh I was attached all the time there to the RNI Section eh, where we were doing engine, prop changes, modifications, servicing or whatever was required. I always remember two of us had done some work, I think it was on one of the outer engines and, and the rule of thumb was if there was four groups, if there was eh four; what should I say. Remembering that there used to be two groups, eh two people on each engine, I remember that we had finished and the rule of thumb was the last Crew to finish had to see to the engine test run up. See it off on its Air Test and sign the form 700 or 701 I can’t remember which it was before they could go. We were allowed because we were finished we were allowed the rest of the day of which was late afternoon and two of us went for a swim in the Old Bedford Canal at Mepal. As we were swimming the old plane that we had worked on flew over and we had no qualms at all. When we got back into the Mess in the evening, one of them said “eh I think you are in trouble,” so we said “why” they said “well as she came into land eh, the engine went wild, one engine went wild” I think it was the starboard outer “she was too late to do anything so she swerved off the runway, ripped, ripped the undercarriage off and was a mess.” Just on the side it wasn’t our engine for which we were pleased. The outcome was a clevis pin had fallen out of the throttle control and eh left it so they couldn’t control coming in, in the last minute. Poor old bloke, normally controls are examined or they like you, they like a Senior NCO to do that work or check it. People were allowed to do it, the poor old bloke who had eh, done the work ended up on a Court Marshall and I think he disappeared for a fortnight. We used to get the eh Fortresses and Liberators and that flying fairly low over and coming, they used to come back. When our lads were on daylights they used to come back in what we describe as a gaggle whereas the Forts would come back, what was left of them in a Formation. On one of these occasions eh our Squadron was about to land in circuit and the Fortress came in. Eh the Control Box virtually through everything at this Fortress to stop him landing but he seen Mother Earth and he wanted to get down to it and he crash landed luckily without any explosions or fire on the grass on runway near the top towards Sutton. Yeah eh a story that illuminated, if that is the right word from that, we had an MU on the, the airfield and they used to do Majors and Category work. The story is eh, the Americans were still, they were entertained, I don’t know if it was the following morning by the Officers Mess and I think probably a discussion regarding low flying had taken. The story is that morning one of the eh Pilots of 75 eh, was taking a plane up on air test and from what the story goes the American Pilot and his Observer and perhaps others went with them to see how the Lanc flied and everything else. Eh and out over the Wash, the Bedford Canals he came back with a bit of tree branches hanging from one of the engines, I think it was starboard inner and of course it had landed, he had been flying low and it went straight back into the MU for repairs. I don’t know the validity of that but it was a story that went around for quite a while. Again memories coming back, we had, had an intruder come in one night eh, and drop Butterfly Bombs, anti-personnel bombs all over the place we were out of action the following day until the Bomb Disposal people had been and we had no air defence at that time but eh twin browning mounted on a stalk were obtained from somewhere and quite a number of Ground Crew had to go down to Waterbeach for training eh, on these, on this equipment for future Air Defence. Luckily for everybody Gerry never came back again. The next instance that comes to mind is that the Ops, at the latter end of the war Ops were delayed then eventually I think they were cancelled. And eh some of the bomb load were delayed actions. And in the night, I think the idea was to get an early morning start and in the night a terrific explosion occurred somewhere up on A or B Flights one of the Lancaster’s, one of the delayed action must have gone off and we lost quite a few eh planes either through shrapnel damage and one or two just disappeared. Again we were out of action until some more arrived. We have on the, on the Squadron, on the Airfield we had a eh group of Instrumentalists, they were known as the “75’ers.” I don’t remember them playing on actually the Airfield but they used to play at Chatteris if they were not on duty Em, on, I don’t know Fridays, Saturdays night. It was always difficult knowing how to get there because there was no bus service, you had to cadge a lift or cycle. Em, sometimes, sometimes if you got a lift you couldn’t get one back because the chap giving you the lift had got other interests at that time of night. It may sound silly but we had a good relationship with the Police, so you could go into the Station on arriving in Chatteris and say to the Sergeant in the Police Station, little Police Station there, “have you got a bed for the night Sarge.?” And if he was not busy he would say “right ho lads.” And you would stay there overnight, catch the workman’s bus in the morning, eh put two bob in the box, in the box for the eh, Police. Catch the bus, the bus that dropped you of somewhere where you could get into the Airfield without the eh SPs noticing you. As long as you were there for eight o’clock in the morning nobody seemed to worry too much. But it was quite regular that one could do that, it sounds silly you couldn’t do it now. Eh but eh we were friendly and of course the band the billet that I was in we used to play a lot of eh cards, some people gambled, I didn’t but we used to play, can’t remember the card game, it was fifteen two, fifteen four so you could perhaps remember that. Eh we had the eh Officer of the day came down to inspect and there was no list, official list on the back of the door for who were inhabited the bill, the eh hut but there was a list there with our, Crib that was the name of it, I have just remembered our crib tournaments that we used to run in the billet. The NCO in charge said “well Sir the, the crib notices is on and everybody of note is on the crib notice, so we got away with that one. Eh I remember with the Seventy Fivers Band, Arthur Swift he used to play fiddle, Johnnie Kimber he used to play sax, Len Mitchell use to play drums and there was one other that I can’t remember. When maximum effort was on em and I am not sure wither we had twenty four or twenty six planes eh we had long hours at times, I remember working all day and then in the evening we worked through the night, I remember that well because I changed a prop. And when we rung it up it had, had battle damage on it an had been repaired eh and when we rung it up the thing vibrated. This was the latter end of the night we were working, so that was a big panic on to get the trestles on again and change the prop, we had to do it to make sure it was balanced. Eh but some days were long and some days as I said extended through to the following morning. When at the latter end of the war eh the Squadron was moved to Spilsby, if I remember right 424 Squadron came in to eh Mepal and 75 were I think preparing for Tiger Force and then going home, they were going to be equipped with Lincolns. Em; we then some personnel were moved, I was one of them to Upwood and then from Upwood there was then one or two people, I was one of them selected for Overseas again for Tiger Force. We were flown out in an old York via Malta, Albania, Karachi and for a while at Calcutta at Ballygunge for about for about six weeks and then from there eh a Dakota down to Mingaladong, Butterworth, eh and eventually into Singapore from where I was demobbed. We came home by a Dutch liner as they called it the Umbernauld and Barnabelt[?] if anybody came home on that they were lucky to get home and the boat itself became the Moortown[?] and burnt out in the Med in, in fifties or sixties so it should have been burnt out before we got on it. These days one listens to our lack of equipment and poor equipment. Eh, nothing seems to have changed since I was in the Services eh my tool kit eh that I was issued with and other people consisted of a few assorted spanners, a hard faced hammer and screwdriver and pair of pliers. Eh so as I say as regards equipment I don’t think much has changed today. After the war when I was demobbed, I am trying to think, just going back to tools, one of the items that I always seemed to get to on a maintenance was a, because we was handed strips of hard paper with the tasks we had to perform on an engine. And one had to sign for everything that one did so that, that piece, that slip of paper went into the log book which carried your name. Eh there was a small boost aneroid on the port side of the Lanc. Eh and a little dome on there was held on by three ba screws and nuts. I always remember nobody had a three bar spanner so one had to manipulate a pair of pliers and hope it worked because one had to take the aneroid out and clean the eh the slide valve. Em I was in March one day an there was an iron mongers in there, I slipped in and said “have you got a three ba spanner by any chance?” They are the sort of things, mag spanners and that was very useful, in actual fact I have still got it in my tool box. Memories, good Lord, thus saying I got demobbed I think it was near Preston I can’t remember the name of it but that doesn’t matter eh, and of course went back to work for the local authority which we were a borough with our own gas, sewage works and eventually I became in charge of all the maintenance not only on the eh plant, on the vehicles but also on the sewage works equipment and the water works. Having; I had special and separate overalls at the time and separate wellingtons dependant on wither it was a sewage works or the water works that I was attending. Rather laughable but really Health and Safety hadn’t really got in properly then. Eh I quite, it was interesting, I quite interesting and I stayed there until 1968 when I moved down into the Sussex Area again with an other author, authority and in the meantime I,I had become a Member of the Road Transport Engineers, Institute of Road Transport Engineers and one or two other things. So I retired I think in 1980,83 or 86 that, beyond me to remember so I have had quite a good wholesome retirement for which I am very grateful. I suppose one interesting point would be that I was always in R and I, chap named Flight Sergeant Sadler we had always been, he was an Australian he had an MID up and we always referred to him as Bondy Sadler very rarely did you say Flight to him. He was that type of bloke that eh accepted the fact that he was like everybody else, that he were human. Eh with the Flight people we had A, B and C Flight we never really encountered them. It was not an anti-social thing it was just the way that they were on the Flights, they would, they would probably have eh a Rigger, an Engine Fitter and possibly and Electrician and Armourer to each, to each Lanc eh and eh they spent their life generally eh maintaining, repairing the same plane until unfortunately that plane perhaps became lost in action and eh they knew the Aircrew much more than we in, well we didn’t actually in RNI we didn’t actually get in contact with the Aircrew. Our, our, ours was a Lancaster repaired if it went out on air test, came back, the next one was virtually waiting to be attended to so em, eh we were not anti-social say. Luckily a lot of people who were on R and I eh we, we, we sort of associated with particularly in our hut. Just memory that.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Basil Goldstraw
Creator
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Denise Boneham
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-08-27
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AGoldstrawBJ160827
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Basil Goldstraw was classed as medically unfit for aircrew and following training as a fitter, he was posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. He discusses aspects of his work as a fitter, being bombed, and life on and off the station. He was posted to Singapore as part of Tiger Force and worked as an Engineer with local authorities after the war.
Contributor
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Hugh Donnelly
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Singapore
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Chatteris
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
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00:28:39 audio recording
75 Squadron
B-17
bombing
crash
entertainment
fitter engine
flight mechanic
ground crew
ground personnel
Lancaster
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Mepal
Tiger force
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/824/10808/PFlynnRA1601.1.jpg
df15476726e07004ffdc65eb00a4b68d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/824/10808/AFlynnRA161229.2.mp3
cbef9bfc20e19cf0f0945b2cdcabc96f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Flynn, Ron
Ronald Albert Flynn
R A Flynn
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ronald Flynn (b. 1924, 1811716 Royal Air Force). He completed a tour of operations as a flight engineer with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-29
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Flynn, RA
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DB: This is an interview with Ronald Albert Flynn at his home at Backwell, near Bristol on the 29th of December 2016 at 14.40. Can you tell me a little bit about your time before you joined the RAF?
RF: I was at an ordinary elementary school for quite some time and lived in north, or south, yes South London. No. North London. Sorry. I was actually at a factory making furniture or assisting people to make furniture. And the, after looking at the papers and seeing what was going in the world I thought of joining the army or the air force. The air force. I decided air force would do me. And I, with a friend went to a place, a place just outside Enfield to volunteer. We were given an address to go and we were received by RAF officers that would put you through the paces of cleaning everything. How to wash and shave. We knew that already. And we were sent to a unit in London where the officers were there to take any volunteers. I’d been eventually accepted in the air force. They gave me a uniform and gave me oh a history of the air force and what they did. And also I went through a programme of keeping myself clean. Cleanliness. Which obviously I’d already knew. From there they sent me to, or to report to some offices in North London where we met quite a high ranking officer and he told me that everything was ok. If they would, they would think about where you would be placed. I eventually got notice that I had to report to a training. On a training course at Cosford. It was, it wasn’t, there were no aircraft there at Cosford.
Other: And what did you do there, Dad?
RF: Where did I go from Cosford?
Other: What training did you do there?
RF: Cosford was an introduction into the history of an airman. Even told you how to wash. But I went from there to [pause] is it Stettin?
Other: No.
RF: No. Not Stettin. That’s German that [laughs] Beckford. Deptford. A place. A camp in Norfolk. And it was, it consisted of men who had just volunteered and what they were going to do or what they, what they thought they would be able to do. And I wanted to be — I wanted to fly. But I wasn’t too sure about how or who I wanted to be with. But they posted me to a unit with literally hundreds of other airmen. I forget what the name of the place was but I had an idea that it was an overseas unit.
Other: But how did you learn to be an engineer?
RF: I [pause] I applied. Prior to that, being posted to that station I had volunteered for aircrew. But they didn’t seem to take any notice of that and I thought I’m in line for, to be posted to North Africa which I didn’t very, like very much. But suddenly an officer came to the head of the group and said, ‘Will the following men fall out.’ And my name was mentioned. And I was posted on an aircrew course. [unclear] lesson. I decided the job I would like on the aircraft was the engineering and we went on a course of Merlin engines which was very interesting. Like I say where the engines lived at the, put on the Lancasters. And fortunately I was, they said, ‘Fall out.’ They’d accepted me. Which I was very pleased. From there they posted me to a, I think that was Cosford to experiment on engines. The Merlins. The Merlin engines which, which was very interesting. Merlins of course were the aircraft in Lancasters and I was hoping that that would be the case. I’d be chosen to go on Lancasters as a flight engineer. And fortunately they did post me to a station where I would meet a crew. And I was interested in a New Zealand crew. For what reason I don’t know. But when they called my skipper, new skipper’s name out, Smith — I thought oh I haven’t got my right —
Other: New Zealand.
RF: New Zealander. But it turned out that he was. He was New Zealand. And the rest of the crew were his, all New Zealanders which I was very grateful. The Stirlings was a fine aircraft but it was too massive. And everything seemed hard work. But nevertheless they were safe enough and, but I was looking forward to doing the same thing on Lancasters. Which I did eventually. And they posted me on a flight engineer’s course which was of course to learn all about engines. There was a, as again and also air frame. Of course I would be responsible for engines and the general working pieces in the aircraft. And looking after the whole, the whole crew really. I can’t think much of the reception. I can’t remember the reception. But arriving at Mepal I was amongst all aircrew that spoke the same language. I, we had to, we had to get some practice in the Lancaster and — which lasted oh a fortnight probably before we could do, start doing any, any operations. But the crew I had was excellent. So I had no real bother joining them and performing my duty to stand by the, next to the skipper. Taking orders from him. And at the same time making sure that the remainder of the crew were happy and or could I help them in any way. The two gunners were English. And the rear gunner was quite elderly actually and, but he enjoyed it and he wanted to carry on. Eventually he finished the same time as myself so he set off. He’d enjoyed it. I can’t see why but [ laughs] He, he — the other four members of the crew were from New Zealand and very nice. Very good people. One was the bomb aimer who was a little bit scatty [laughs] He amused me because I stood just above him, behind him so there was always a bit of conversation. The skipper was wonderful. I didn’t, my job was to look after the engines of course and take instructions from the skipper. Everything was fine. So I thought to myself I’m going to like this. And I did. I can’t —
[recording paused]
RF: Little things do happen that are unexpected. Like on one occasion we were leaving Berlin and we were hit by bullets from a fighter aircraft and caught the outboard, off side outboard engine alight. Which I had to put out of course. From there I had to do some adjustments with the various instruments of keeping the, keeping the kite in the air. But we were quite happy and ok, on three engines. But we had a long way to go of course and I had to manipulate various units and petrol. But we were doing quite, quite well. When we did reach home —
Other: The skipper wanted you to restart it.
RF: Well, yeah. But, yeah prior, prior to — no this, I’m sorry. On the way home the skipper said, ‘I think I’ll start that engine Ron.’ I said, ‘I don’t think so skipper. You shouldn’t. We’ve got no means of putting the fire out if it catches fire.’ He said, ‘I’ll put it out.’ ‘It’s entirely up to you. You’re the, you’re the captain.’ So he started the engine and of course it caught fire again. So I said, ‘Up to you. Down to you skipper.’ So he put put it in a nose dive at about three hundred mile an hour and blew it out. He was successful in his wisdom but it didn’t help me. But —
Other: When you got back.
RF: When we got back we were, everything seemed ok and we were on the approach to land and the engine that was, we’d had trouble with packed up again. And we were, we also a slight problem with the offside inner engine and of course we had no chance of getting to the airfield. We came down. Fortunately we weren’t too high at that. We came down into a, a cabbage patch just outside the aerodrome and pushed through the fence and finished up in the middle of the aerodrome. And of course, the old engineering officer the following day called me to his office and said, ‘What’s the idea of bringing the kite back in that state?’ So I had to explain to him what had happened. But he was quite ok after that. There were one or two other incidences which I —
Other: What about when you had to circle and drop your bombs?
RF: Well, that —
Other: And somebody who was not as good as your skipper was not quite so keen to come as low. He was dropping his bombs from a higher —
RF: Yeah.
Other: Above you.
RF: Yeah, I mean. I can’t —
Other: And what it —
RF: Well, that one I’ve already explained to you at Stettin. When the engines went. That there was the funny one about dropping that bomb on the water. I’m sorry. That was the Stettin one which I’ve already mentioned actually.
Other: I think that’s where he —
RF: Came. We were hit. We were hit by a shell which came through the roof and took the toilet with it, in the bottom, out of the bottom. Which I had to inform the skipper that he can never go back and use it [laughs] That’s how I went back to see that there was a hole in the top there in the sub fuselage and a hole down the bottom and it had taken the toilet it. So I said to the skipper, ‘You don’t want to go to the toilet because we haven’t got one.’
[recording paused]
RF: Not really. No. When you were away from the bombing area you did relax. If you’d got a sandwich you would have a sandwich or something like that or a cup of, a flask of coffee or something. But one, one incident was quite funny when suddenly a hole came in the aircraft.
Other: You told —
[recording paused]
RF: The thirtieth op.
Other: Can you remember dad?
RF: I can’t remember the thirtieth op. They call a tour thirty. And when they, when the engineering officer told me that I’d got one more to do I just said, ‘No thank you. I’ve had enough.’ And that’s, that’s the end. Not a very exciting station itself. We had to go downtown.
Other: And what did you get up to dad?
RF: Oh, we used, I used to go with Paddy — the mid-upper gunner. We did drink. We did drink quite a lot. Unfortunately, the police didn’t like it when we were walking along. Came up a road in Cambridge and he arrested us. And I must agree that it was wrong but I’d had too much to drink. So being as we were in uniform this police realised who we were and just put us to sleep in a room to sleep it off. Which we were very grateful. But we got to, got up in the morning and went to camp and had to go in front of the commanding officer. It’s, you know I daren’t repeat what he said to us [laughs] And that was it. Paddy and I used to, we used to drink quite a lot obviously but we also went dancing. And some of the people there were quite happy but one or two didn’t like us so they called the police. And the police, we had obviously had too much to drink but the police lifted me up. One arm. One policeman on one arm, another policeman on the other arm and led me down to the cells. And Paddy was the same thing. But we slept overnight there and we just got told off in the morning and they said, ‘Don’t do it again.’ And we went back to camp.
[recording paused]
RF: Not that I can remember. No. None that I fancied [laughs] but I wasn’t, I wasn’t interested in going out with women. I don’t know why. Don’t ask me. That’s unusual I know. But probably the women didn’t want to go out with me [laughs] But no. Paddy and I used to like a drink and we often got into trouble when we went into Cambridge.
[recording paused]
RF: They of course asked us what we would like to do. I thought I would like to do a bit of driving. And they sent me to a driving school and it was quite interesting. Also, I made friends with Paddy. Paddy Flynn. Same name. So, and he was typical Irish. Lovely chap but he drank too much. And of course I was with him and we very often got into trouble with the. Paddy came with [unclear] too.
Other: Yeah. You had to —
RF: Yeah. Eventually, after the end of the driving school the commanding officer asked me to, or he informed me that I was being driven down to Cornwall. ‘Would you do me a favour and take Paddy with you?’ I said, ‘No.’ Anyway, ‘It’ll be alright. I’ll take him.’ When we were in Cornwall it was, Paddy unfortunately really didn’t grasp this driving job and I had to [pause] he could, he could drive but you wouldn’t say it was safe driving. And so I really tried to avoid any passengers getting in his car to drive down to the town.
Other: What about when you took the teams out in the coaches? You and Paddy.
RF: Yeah. On one occasion the commanding officer said, ‘You’ve got two people to take to town.’ I forget the name of the town. But he said, ‘You take one bus and Paddy will take the other one.’ So I said, ‘Alright. That doesn’t sound good to me.’ But he insisted and that was all I could do. ‘Just take it easy.’ So I did. And Paddy did. But unfortunately coming back on those country roads and Paddy had had a few drinks I got home before him. And of course he didn’t arrive. So I had to go back and I found Paddy and all his occupants in a field [laughs] And fortunately nobody was hurt. So we got out of that one but, and Paddy wasn’t driving any more. We finished up in Newquay in Cornwall which was very pleasant. [unclear]
Other: Can you remember — ?
RF: In to the motor trade. Motor garage trade.
Other: And insurance assessing, didn’t you?
RF: I went, yeah I did a bit of — I went into the motor trade. Just in Welwyn Garden City.
Other: No. That was —
[recording paused]
Other: Do you remember dad? The driving —
RF: An assessor. But I mean Paddy was —
Other: Oh yeah. Nothing to do with him. Nothing to do with him.
RF: No. I got, I made enquiries about being an assessor for accident repairs to cars. For which I was introduced to a repair garage at, in Welwyn Garden City. No.
Other: In London.
RF: Oh dear. It was obvious that I feel, not unsafe but when I was in the air force I knew the crew. So there was no fear. We were looked after in many ways. But —
Other: Tell Dee about when, when you had that truck and you drove off to a tip to try and get a new bit for your exhaust and then they called you in when you got back. What did they think you were doing?
RF: Well, this was when the war had ended and I was — what did they call it? [pause]
Other: You had like a little —
RF: I remember working at this ‘drome. If I can remember the base. Anyway, it was the Queen’s Flight and we were given the job of when the Queen was —
Other: Flying.
RF: Flying anywhere. We would, in a fire tender drive down the side of the runway and with the Queen’s aircraft until it was airborne. Which wasn’t too often. But we were there just in case. But on another occasion I took the jeep because the exhaust was blowing. So I took the jeep out to the scrapyard. Just away. Just a short space. A short drive through. About a quarter of a mile. I did find a bit of an exhaust. I didn’t know if that would do but I took it just in case. When I got back the warrant officer in charge collared me and said, ‘Where have you been?’ I said, ‘I’ve just got some components here that I might have to put on the jeep.’ He said, ‘Yes, I’ve heard that before.’ He said, ‘You’ve been running people down to the station on leave.’ I said, ‘No. I wasn’t.’ I said, ‘No. Certainly, you’re wrong there.’ And for that reason I suppose he advised the authorities to take my rank away of warrant officer. Down to, back to flight sergeant. So, I said, ‘Oh yeah. Do what you like,’ I said, ‘I’m not worried. I’m going home shortly.’ And that was it.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ron Flynn
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Denise Boneham
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-29
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AFlynnRA161229, PFlynnRA1601
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:33:17 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Ron Flynn was living in London before he volunteered for the RAF. He trained as a flight engineer and joined a British / New Zealand crew. He was posted to RAF Mepal. There was at least one occasion when a fire in the engines was extinguished by the pilot doing a steep dive. When they returned to their base they crashed through the fence at the airfield.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
crash
flight engineer
Lancaster
military discipline
military living conditions
RAF Mepal
Stirling
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1118/11609/ASeckerFE170815.1.mp3
47cfe21bac4401a2c3fc946d0008bae1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Secker, Frances Elizabeth
F E Secker
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Frances Elizabeth Secker (b. 1923). She lived near RAF Feltwell during the war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Secker, FE
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DB: I’m talking today to Frances Elizabeth Secker, who lives in Feltwell, on the 15th of August 2017 and it is currently 14:45 hours. Elizabeth, I know you’ve lived in Feltwell all your life and you were here during the World War Two. Can you tell me a little bit how you interacted with the Bomber Command boys on Feltwell station?
FES: Well, I got on well with all the boys on Feltwell station, had quite a few friends, yes, yeah, a lot of them through a friend of mine and I got introduced to them, yes. We’d go to the dances at the gym, we’d go to the cinema in the camp, yes, uhm. Then I met a lot of the airmen, the New Zealand airmen coming to the fish shop where I worked, quite young, yes, and what I can really remember about them was they had egg and chips quite a lot but not when I get the time, quite often three [laughs], yes, so sometimes they had to be cooked in the chip pan because they wanted so many. There’s two eating rooms there and I was the person that waited the tables quite a lot, yeah, all very friendly, yeah, nice people to work for, yes. I had a few boyfriends, in the Air Force here [laughs]. [file missing] The actual uhm New Zealanders flew from Methwold, didn’t’ they? Yeah, the first one, yeah, flying from here I suppose but I think the actual first one that flew in Feltwell was a Harrow, yeah, is that right? Yeah. I was at school, yes, and we had the Wellingtons after that, uhm was it the Venturas? Yeah. I don’t, the Lancasters flew from Methwold, I think, didn’t they? They didn’t fly from Feltwell, yeah. Yes, I can remember that, remember when one or two of them crashed round, yeah. Another thing I can remember is seeing the, the [unclear] be New Zealanders a lot, a lot, I think, going off to Methwold, sometimes in an open truck, sometimes in a coach, and I was working at the fish shop, they would quite often stop at the post office next door for some reason [laughs], yes [laughs], yeah, yeah [unclear] she met them she met them, I know she did Charlie, they went into the shop and she get a date, she would say, [laughs], so yeah and then we went out with a couple of officers, [unclear] different ones but really they were more casual dates, yeah, just, you know, at the gym we met quite a lot of them, yeah, and dances on camp yeah and I can remember cycling to Methwold uhm where they had dances in the Nissen huts, yeah, we went there, cycled there, [laughs] yeah. Another thing I can certainly remember is watching the funerals, yes, [unclear] yeah, which is very sad, yeah. And I went to, uhm when they unveiled the memorial for them, went to that, yeah, and when they, this is recently in, the one by St Mary’s, I went to that when they put that there, yeah, went to their little service, yes, yes, very friendly, yeah, we did have a very nice time although it was wartime, yeah, we did, yeah, ok. Well, he took us to Brandon fair we cycled, my friend Pam and me, Pam, he asked me for the next date, so we went on [unclear] but he was stationed, he came here in ’47, to, was it, a flying training school, he was, uhm, I didn’t know really, I didn’t know him then, and actually I never saw his logbook so anything until after he died, uhm, never talked about that much really, apart from talking about his, the crew he was with but yeah, I never saw his logbook so I knew [clears throat] that he said once they crashed at Mepal was when he had his first cigarette [laughs], yes, yeah, yes uhm. So, he was here from ’47 till ’50, then he came out, air traffic control and that was at Methwold, yeah, yeah. About things up here, in the mess his friends, yes, one there, he wasn’t in the forces, I don’t quite know what his position was but he kept a few hens and turned a bit laugh and say, he came into the mess at breakfast time and said, my hens are not laying very much and Joe Bowman would come in and say, would you cook, this egg for me? I think it was [unclear] [laughs] so that’s why his hens weren’t laying much for him, yeah, lots of fun times really, yes, he had some. Charlie’s a big sportsman, yes, he played for station, yeah, and the one time he played for Yarmouth but when he was in the Air Force he played different stations, yeah, a big sportsman, football, this I’m talking about, yeah, yeah, well, any other sport he was interested into, yeah, yeah. Yes, new Zealander the pilot, two Canadians, yeah, they were British, Charlie and his crew, Charlie was the rear gunner, Flight Lieutenant Keen was the pilot a new Zealander, Flight Lieutenant Brown Canadian, Flight Lieutenant King Canadian, Flight Sergeant Spilsbury, Sergeant Elms and Sergeant Smith were British. I think, his skipper, as he called him, thought quite a lot of Charlie, made quite a fuss of him, although they couldn’t eat in the same mess, they were quite friendly, yes. They’d done thirty-one tours, yes and then that was it for them, were very lucky, yeah, to survive, yeah, [unclear]. Charlie kept in touch with the Canadians, Flight Lieutenant Brown and Flight Lieutenant King for a while, yeah, heard all about their lives and what they’d done after they’ve come out of the service, yeah, yes. Charlie came to Feltwell in ’47 with the, uhm, training [unclear], flight training, for that he was air control at Feltwell and Methwold, yes, stayed in the Air Force until 1950 from when he took a job with Pearl Insurance, ok, that was Charlie’s bit [laughs] [unclear] uhm, yeah, not the land army as such but land work in the Fens, near the village, where we cycled to work, everywhere we had to cycle if we needed to go anywhere at that time [laughs] yes. And work, uhm, we picked potatoes [laughs], planted potatoes but by machine, we picked potatoes by hand what else did we do? We do celery, bit in the harvest fields, yes, at that time, yeah and no cow, yeah, no, no cow, horses there, at that time till we got to practice machine, yeah. Yes, I’d done that for until mum [unclear] died I stayed home, yeah, I then went back to fish and chips [laughs], yeah, till I retired almost, yeah, different ones, yeah, [unclear]. Yes, Charlie would talk about Queenie, Q for Queenie, apparently his favourite aircraft. One thing he talked about was when they crashed at Mepal, he had his first cigarette [laughs], yes, he never talked much about the operations, unless he saw something about Germany on the television and he would say, I think I know where that is [laughs], and that was all he’d say about. His logbook I never saw until after he died. So that was Q for Queenie, his favourite aircraft. Going back to the fish shop, they were packed, it was packed in those days, two eating rooms full and the actual shop, there was no queue, everybody trying to get in front [laughs], calling out what they would like, very happy times although it was wartime, yeah, yeah. Yes, I think that they had fish too, yeah, but I remember that, I used to go with Mrs [unclear] the shop to, have you heard of Wearham? Little village? Yeah, used to go there and get these trays of eggs, yes, because I suppose having the shop, they could get them, couldn’t they? And yeah, I don’t know whether they got them on the campus match, anyway they left their eggs and chips, [laughs] and fish and chips [laughs], yeah, and that was it, egg and chips and fish and chips, and bread and butter [laughs], yeah. I don’t think we’d done fish, we’d done cups of tea, no, I think it was just fish and chips, and egg and chips and frittles [laughs], no, I think we were too busy really, we working and then, yeah, then on the corner, uhm, just by the camp gates on the right hand side, I think it was The Sally Ann if I remember rightly, the one, yeah, yeah, then there was The Blade, I think that was open at the time, I think they’d done, they’d done food there, yeah, looks, yeah, shop, yeah, cause it’s not a shop anymore, my lifelong friend from schooldays, her mum and dad had a shop, she went into the ATS, her mum died suddenly so she came home, and helped her dad in the shop, a grocery shop, this was where she met a lot of the airmen [laughs], this is where we made, made up our friends, most of them, at the time [laughs], mostly casual but Pam married Ted King, he was a, stationed at Feltwell, Pam met him and married him and she was quite young, and they were quite young, yeah, and from then on she travelled with him, yes, so they went a lot of different places in the country, yeah, we always stayed friends, great friends until she died last year, at the beginning of this year, actually, yeah, yeah, Pam and Ted, I’m friendly with her daughter, yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Frances Elizabeth Secker
Creator
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Denise Boneham
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASeckerFE170815
Format
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00:20:07 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Norfolk
Germany
Description
An account of the resource
Frances Elizabeth Secker is a lifelong resident of Feltwell. She was still at school when RAF Feltwell opened in 1937, and she remembers the Harrow being the first aircraft to arrive, followed by Wellingtons.
Elizabeth has clear memories of attending dances and the cinema at both RAF Feltwell and RAF Methwold, along with her friend Pam. She was employed as a waitress in the local fish and chip shop, which brought her into direct contact with the New Zealand airmen stationed at nearby RAF Methwold. The airmen’s love of egg and chips is a particularly fond memory. She had several boyfriends, but nothing too serious. Open trucks and coaches full of aircrew being transported to and from RAF Methwold is another memory that has stayed with her.
She didn’t meet her husband to be until 1947 after he was posted to RAF Methwold to retrain in air traffic control. They met when she cycled with her friend to Brandon fair. Charlie had been a rear gunner. His crew was made up of a New Zealand pilot, Flight Lieutenant Keen, two Canadians, Flight Lieutenants Brown and King, along with Flight Sergeants Spillsby, Elms and Smith. The crew were a close-knit unit and they carried out 31 operation, and remained in contact long after the war. He spoke fondly about his favourite aircraft, Q for Queenie, but he did not talk about his operations. Elizabeth only discovered his log book after Charlie’s death. His only comment about his experiences came when an item on Germany made the news, and he would indicate that he knew where the location was. She does remember Charlie told her he had his first cigarette after the aircraft crashed at RAF Mepal. Charlie demobbed in 1950 and was then employed by Peal Assurance.
Elizabeth also worked on the land. Planting potatoes by machine, but picking by hand. She also helped at harvest time. Cycling to the fields where all the heavy work was carried out by horses.
Her friend Pam married Ted King. She was quite young, and although Pam and Ted moved around, they remained in contact throughout their lives until Pam passed away. Elizabeth worked at the chip shop throughout her life until her retirement.
Contributor
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Ian Whapplington
Peter Schulze
Temporal Coverage
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1937
1947
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
aircrew
bombing
crash
Harrow
love and romance
perception of bombing war
pilot
RAF Feltwell
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1401/27272/BMooreDMooreDv1.1.pdf
6f33157a0b1575c878747146f837b62b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Moore, Dennis
D Moore
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-06
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Moore, D
Description
An account of the resource
37 items and two albums.
The collection concerns (1923 - 2010, 1603117, 153623 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, documents, photographs and two albums. He flew operations as a navigator with 218 and 15 Squadrons.
Album one contains photographs of his family and his training in Canada.
Album Two contains photographs of his service in the Far East.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Terrence D Moore and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Dennis Moore
28.06.1923 – 30.10.2010
[photograph]
Autobiographical notes
DM Memoirs (Second Edition)
Compiled and edited by Terry D Moore
[censored lines]
1
[page break]
2
[page break]
Foreward
In late 1991, following the end of the Cold War and the cessation of hostilities in Iraq. the Government's "Options for Change" defence review led to the disbandment of several RAF squadrons, one of which was XV Squadron which had played a significant role in the first Gulf War. As a former member of this squadron, in which he flew as a Lancaster Navigator during the Second World War, my father was invited to attend the disbandment ceremony in Laarbruch, Germany, and I had the privilege of accompanying him as his guest.
Although he continued to serve in the RAF until 1964, Dad had never talked about his wartime experiences but, during the long car journey to and from Germany, all that changed – the memories flooded back as though it were yesterday. The stories became very familiar to me as they were regularly recounted at the many air-shows and Squadron Reunions we attended over almost two decades
Sadly, he did not live to celebrate his birthday on 28th June 2012, the day on which Queen Elizabeth II unveiled the long overdue Bomber Command Memorial in London's Green Park. However, my wife Penny and I proudly attended as his representatives
[photograph]
The ceremony, honouring the 55,730 airmen who lost their lives during the Second World War, was attended by more than 5,000 second world war veterans and it brought to mind the last words of the Antarctic explorer, Captain R.F. Scott: "had we survived I would have had a take to tell . . . . . . ." Well he did survive – a thirty-three sortie tour with Bomber Command, and his tales are told in the form of these "Autobiographical Notes" which he compiled following our trip to Germany in 1991.
I spent many hours editing his notes, which I illustrated with photographs from his albums and, thankfully, was able to get his seal of approval before he died. Since then I have added more photos and later material which I found in his papers. I am certain that he would have approved.
[photograph]
Terry Moore, July 2012
3
[page break]
[photograph]
"60 years on" – with PA474 at RAF Lossiemouth, May 2005
[photograph]
Pam and me at XV Squadron "90th Birthday" reunion, Lossiemouth
4
[page break]
Dennis Moore
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL NOTES
1923 – 1939
I was born at 98 Camden Crescent, Chadwell Heath, Essex on 28th June 1923. The youngest child of Thomas and Mary Moore 1, brother to Thomas (Owen) 2 and sister Joyce 3.
About 1926/7 the family moved to 150 Croydon Road, Beddington, Surrey.
My education began at Bandon Hill School, Wallington.
At the age of 7 I fell ill with infantile paralysis (Polio). I was taken to St. Thomas's Hospital in London where I spent nearly 3 months. I was immobilised in a body splint but do not remember much about the treatment except having pins stuck in the soles of my feet periodically (mostly in middle of night!). Apparently I was very lucky to have been diagnosed so quickly and affected in whole body rather than in particular limbs. I only remember there being some form of epidemic in the ward and visitors were not allowed for three weeks or so. The doctor promised me 5 shillings (a lot of money for an eight year old in those days) if I could walk unaided from the end of my bed to the end of the bed opposite by the time my parents were allowed back in. He had to pay up! All together I was off school for nearly a year. I started back in a wheel chair but soon discarded it!
In 1934 I got a place at Wallington County School for Boys. I was not very good at school but just about managed to keep up, though mostly somewhere near the bottom of the form! I only once ever obtained good results in exams when I managed to come [italics] first [/italics] in a science exam, and that was only because, by chance, I had swotted up the night before on all the right things!
I joined the school Scouts (9th Wallington {County School} Troop) and did quite well. Our Scout Master, A. D. Prince, was the school science master. I became Patrol Leader of the 'Owls' and eventually obtained the King's Scout badge and the 'Bushman's Thong'. Nearly every holiday was spent camping or 'Trekking'. In 1937 I attended the Scout Jamboree at Zandfoort in Holland (pictures in green photo album). None of us liked the very militant contingent from Germany who threw their weight about at all the 'get-togethers'.
[photograph]
Joyce, Dad, Mum and me
I represented the Scouts at swimming and the school 2nd XV at Rugby. All my spare time was taken up with tennis at Beddington House Lawn Tennis Club, playing and helping to maintain the tennis courts.
My swimming ability arose from the Polio recovery therapy. Long daily sessions were spent in the hospital pool and then in the local swimming baths in Croydon.
Our house was quite close to Croydon Airport and two of my friends lived actually overlooking the airfield. We could recognise all of the airlines and aircraft that we saw landing and taking off each day. This aroused my life long interest in flying.
1 Thomas Henry Moore (1892-1967), Mary (née Tait) (1893-1984)
2 Thomas Owen (b. 3 October 1917, d. 2 November 2010)
3 Joyce (b. 11 July 1919, d. 16 May 2012)
5
[page break]
1939
Mid-June – our summer holiday at The Hartland Hotel, Hartland Point, Devon was delayed so that I could take the last exam of Matriculation (Economics) but I did so badly that we need not have wasted the extra day. I left school at the beginning of July, aged 16
War started on 3rd September and we listened to the radio broadcast by Neville Chamberlain, which was immediately followed by the Air Raid warning and all of us really though that we were about to be annihilated.
I started work at 'CUACO' (Commercial Union Assurance (Marine Department)) in Lime Street, London. Starting Pay was 21 shillings & sixpence (£1.12 1/2) per week and a railway season ticket cost 13 shillings (60p) per month. My boss was called Godin. I spent most of the time making onionskin copies of documents – before the days of photocopiers! The Underwriters were almost like gods and had to be treated as such. The firm had a lunch club in Ropemaker Street (near Moorgate Tube Station). It was a very old and decrepit building and we had one of the top floors, which could only be reached by very rickety stairs. It was well worth the 10-15 minute walk to get there, through the many alleyways and quick-cuts through other buildings, as the meal was free!!! Later, this building was destroyed by bombing and the Barbican now stands on the site.
I joined the AFS (Auxiliary Fire Service) as a Messenger.
1940
Joined the CUACO Tennis club. Played on the sports ground in the Sidcup area. In late summer I witnessed the bombings in the surrounding area.
The evacuation of Allied Forces from Dunkirk, following the German advance through Belgium, Holland and France, took place at the end of May and was completed around 3rd June. I had holiday from work a few days later and went on a cycle tour of Devon. I caught the train to Exeter, then cycled & stayed at YHA's from there. I passed many camps of army people who had just got back. They were not allowed to send mail without it being censored, so I acted as 'Mail Boy' for many of them who called me over from inside the fence. One of the hostels I stayed at was at Waters Meet (now a National Trust site) and the Warden and I were the only two people there. He took me into Lynton (or perhaps Lynmouth) and introduced me to real cider. It did not take much of this to wake up next morning with a very thick head! However, a long hike up the river soon altered that. At Salcombe, I managed to hire a motor boat (dinghy) and could not understand why the chap who hired it to me insisted that there was a full tank of petrol. I now imagine he must have thought that I was going into the Channel to pick up more 'Dunkirk Survivors' – I must have been very naive at the time!!
The 'Battle of Britain' started in earnest about 12th August. I had been playing tennis at Sidcup when the first bombing of airfields started. On the 15th (or possibly the 18th), I was in the garden at 150 Croydon Road Beddington when aircraft flew over with bombs dropping from them aimed towards Croydon aerodrome. The following day I was called to the Bourjois factory with the AFS to try and get underneath some girders to see if anyone was trapped. A few days later, Dad took us all to live with the Robsons in Charlton Cottage, Copperkins Lane, Amersham, which they rented for a short while. I joined the local Scout Troop (1st Chesham Bois) and met the King family. After short time, by general consent, I was made Troop Leader.
I travelled up to London daily by train with George King & his brother. On one occasion, after a very heavy night raid, it took two hours to walk from Paddington to Lime Street through the devastated city. I camped out at weekends at Chalfont Heights and Great Hampden.
The Blitz was at its height during this period and London and the surrounding area were seemingly bombed every night.
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[page break]
1941
Early in year the folks moved back to Beddington but I stayed on and lived with one of the King family at 'Rose Cottage' in Chesham Bois. I visited Len Reynolds (see Gunboat 658) who worked for Sun Insurance and had been evacuated to Wrest Park, Silsoe, Beds. I cycled from Amersham via Luton and was chased by a dog for a long way up the A6. Recent visits to Wrest Park are somewhat nostalgic.
24th April 1941, on leaving Chesham Bois, I was presented with a Photo Album by George King and members of 1st Chesham Bois Scout Troop.
[photograph]
Len Reynolds and myself in uniform
Changed jobs soon after a devasting German bombing raid on London on 10th May and started with Gold Exploration & Finance Company of Australia, which had been evacuated to Sandroyd School, Oxshott. The first few days were spent in the old office in Basinghall Street helping to move files and papers from the partially bombed building. During the week I lived at Sandroyd (in a small house called Kittermasters) and cycled home to Beddington at weekends. By the end of the summer the Blitz had more or less finished but a German bomber (or parts of it!) crashed in the grounds of Sandroyd one evening while we were out drinking in a local pub!
Volunteered for RAF and attended the selection centre at Oxford University (not sure which college – visits in recent years in no way help me to recognise anything about it). Had a long session with medics to decide if my previous infantile paralysis (Polio) would allow me to be considered for Aircrew. After an interview with four Senior Officers, it was decided that I had passed 'A1' and was 'sworn-in' for deferred service. My actual service in the RAF counted from then. Mum was very upset when I informed her as she was convinced that I would be unfit for any service in the Forces due to my previous medical history and Dad was upset that I had volunteered for the [underlined] RAF [/underlined] because he had already booked me as a nautical apprentice with a post on the Prince Line vessel "Black Prince". I had actually done myself a great favour as the ship was sunk quite early on with the loss of all the crew!
Took part in amateur dramatics at Sandroyd together with others from English, Scottish & Australian Bank (ES&A). Performed in Xmas panto as a character in sketches of the Weston Brothers type. They were very popular Radio characters of the time.
7
[page break]
1942
Early spring, I was called up as U/T Aircrew and reported to Aircrew Receiving Centre (ACRC) at Lords cricket ground and billeted in "Viceroy Court" (one of numerous apartment blocks in Regents Park area). During the first week or so we were kitted out, received inoculations, vaccinations, took night vision tests and attended numerous lectures in various part of the cricket ground. Many of the staff were well known cricketers of the day. Spent about eight or nine weeks here with some odd short periods of leave (weekend passes) so I was able to get home quite easily.
[photograph]
At home in the garden 150 Croydon Rd, Beddington
Posted to RAF Bridgenorth & RAF Ludlow where I helped to build the camps. We lived in tents and were treated like 'dirt'. Most of the time was devoted to learning how to 'skive-off' each evening and get back into camp without being caught! Ludlow was famous for the large number of pubs and we took advantage of this to avoid being seen by the SPs (RAF Police). Fortunately, both postings were quite short lived.
Summer was spent at Initial Training Wing (ITW) Newquay. Billeted in the "Penolver Hotel" on the seafront. I seem to remember it being next door to the "Beresford" (pictures in album). Our Sergeant, called Sgt. Hannah, was very strict but fair and we got on well with him. In the photos I recall many of the faces but I cannot put names to any of them. A certain teaspoon, still in use, came from a little cafe where we had our brief coffee breaks! A glorious summer – spent much time on the beach and in the sea, as well as clay pigeon shooting on the cliffs.
Since I had elected not go to pilot basic training selection but [italics] to train as a navigator [/italics], I remained at Newquay with 2 others while the rest of the course did their 'Tiger Moth' time. We met up again at Heaton Park, Manchester after they had finished their pilot checkouts. Had a miserable time hanging about waiting for next posting. Billeted in a filthy boarding house with a scruffy landlady and every one of the NCOs seemed to make life difficult.
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[page break]
1943
Early in the year I finally got a posting to Empire Air Training in Canada. We entrained to Greenock (Glasgow) and boarded the Troop ship [italics] Empress of Scotland [/italics].
[photograph]
RMS Empress of Scotland (formerly Empress of Japan)
Hundreds of us were bundled together in tiers of bunks in makeshift accommodation on the port side, fairly well forward on the boat deck. It was a blessing being able to get out into the open quickly as some of the others were down below, almost in the bilges. We spent hours queuing for food but it passed the time quickly. We sailed on our own and had numerous alerts but nothing was seen or heard. Eventually we docked in New York, although we all thought we were going to [underlined] [italics] Halifax! [/italics] [/underlined]
By train up to No. 31 Personnel Depot Moncton (New Brunswick), stopping for nearly a day in sidings in Portland (Maine). People were very hospitable and made us meals and food for the rest of the journey.
It was freezing cold in Moncton but the huts were very warm and I remember barrels of apples at the end of each hut, which were always kept topped up with crisp, juicy, sweet red apples. Although well below zero outside, we never seemed to feel the cold. Time-off was spent in the town of Moncton, mostly in Macdonald's(?) drug store, eating very cheap T-bone steaks and drinking pints of milk. No shortage of food made it a regular paradise after rationing. We also spent hours ten-pin bowling, both in Moncton and in the alley back at camp.
I cannot remember what we did on duty, but do remember coming into contact with a Welsh corporal by the name of Gee who was the most obnoxious individual I have ever come across and who made our life a misery. It was a relief to join the epidemic of Scarlet Fever that swept through the camp. I was quite ill but lucky to find that one of the doctors was the husband of one of the girls that I had worked with at Sandroyd. He helped me when I was fit enough for convalescent leave by suggesting that I didn't go on my own to Montreal but to stay with one of the local families who took in Service people and looked after them. He introduced me to a couple called Tait who lived in Shediac, a place some 50 miles away, near or at the coast. They seemed to like me and 2 days later arrived back to take me home with them. They already had a number of Australian 'Tour Ex' aircrew staying with them, a couple of whom were in a very bad state and were being sent home by way of Canada and America.
[photograph]
The Tait residence was a huge detached property and they had a lovely red setter dog called Terry who took an immediate fancy to me for some reason and was my constant companion for the rest of my stay with them.
The Taits cosseted me right from the start and were most intrigued to find that Mum's maiden name was the same as theirs. They were most concerned when they saw my patched pyjamas and other clothes and really didn't understand when I told them about
9
[page break]
clothes rationing and all the other shortages. They immediately took me shopping to buy a whole set of new clothes and underclothes. Early in my stay they asked if I had ever had oysters and when I said no they immediately took me to a place called Pointe du Cheyne(?), which was 75 miles away up the coast, for an evening meal out. The place specialised in fried oysters and I had a whole plateful of them. They were marvellous and the taste still lingers on even though I have never had them again since. They seemed to think nothing of a 75-mile drive each way just for a meal out. I was introduced to all the inhabitants of Shediac – or so it seemed – and during my stay with them took me all over New Brunswick, visiting all the towns and villages and spent a day in Fredrickton visiting various relatives at the University.
It was a terrible break to have to leave them and get back to real life. One thing however was somewhat sobering and that was the discussions I had with the Australians before they left. I learnt from them what it was really going to be like to go on Bomber operations once training was finished.
Almost as soon as I reported back to camp in Moncton I was posted to No 1 Central Navigation School – Rivers Manitoba. The trip was a 3-day ride on the train and that in itself was a fascinating experience. Eventually I arrived at the town of Brandon after a short stop off in Winnipeg.
No. 76A Navigation Course began almost as soon as I had arrived and lasted from 17th May 1943 to 1st October 1943. After nearly a month of groundwork, I had my first flight in an aeroplane on 5th June 1943. I spent 3 hours 10 minutes in Anson 6882 flown by P/O Davey. [underlined] [italics] I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. [/italics] [/underlined]
[photograph]
76A Navigation Course 17th May – 1st October 1943,
No. 1 Central Navigation School, Rivers Manitoba, Canada
The others on the course were an amazingly good bunch and a number of us used to work and play together in almost perfect harmony. Only three pupils were 'scrubbed', for various reasons, during the course and the list of those completing the course is in my green photo album. Seven of us formed a small group.
Paul Bailey
Ken Waine
Joe Meadows
Doug Holt
Rick Richardson
Don Finlayson
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We were given regular 48-hour passes and the 75 miles on the train to Winnipeg was quite an easy journey. At Eatons, the major department store, we were able to arrange to stay with local people. Nearly all my visits were to a family living in Assiniboine Drive but quite early on Don Finlayson discovered that he had a relation in Winnipeg that he had never heard of before and we spent most of the time at his place, only going back to the others to sleep. I do not remember the name of the people I used to stay with, although I have a vague recollection that their name might be Oliver.
Finlayson's relatives had a youngish daughter and before long all seven of us paired up with other girls. As can be seen from the photo album we enjoyed many happy hours in the Cave Supper Club and danced to the music of Marsh Phimister (Marsh was still around in 1979 when we returned to Winnipeg to visit my cousin Tom Moore4 & his wife Marg!).
THE CAVE SUPPER CLUB
[photograph]
Date SEP 15 1948 No. 9 GIBSON
On one 48-hour pass I travelled to Toronto (or Montreal, I can't remember which) to meet my cousin Tom, whom I had never met before, but still managed to find him amongst the crowds on the Mainline Station. He took me to Hamilton Ontario were [sic] he was billeted. I think we also went to London Ontario but am not certain. He looked after me quite well and we seemed to get on well together, although it was a very short visit before I had to get back to camp.
Although I had never done very well at school, I suddenly discovered that I was just as clever (if not more so) as the others and I began to do well on the course. In the end I managed to finish 2nd on the course and along with 6 others was given an immediate commission as a Pilot Officer whilst all the others were promoted to Sergeant.
About the 5th October I returned to Moncton and almost straight away entrained to Halifax and boarded the Aquatania (or was it the Mauretania?). We sailed without a convoy again but had air cover at both ends with only a small gap in the middle. It was a smooth crossing, in much superior accommodation to that on the journey out. I met a Canadian who, it subsequently turned out, used to work opposite Tom Moore at Ogilvy Mills in Medicine Hat. – Small world!
We landed back at Greenock and I was posted to Harrogate for Officer kitting-out and indoctrination. I stayed at the Queen's Hotel in some luxury and, as there were lots of Civil Servants evacuated to Harrogate, the social life was extremely good. Went to numerous dances and parties including Christmas and New Year.
4Tom Moore (1916-1992) Margaret (nee Rutherford) (1914-1999)
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1944
Posted to No. 1 (O) A.F.U. (Advanced Flying Unit) Wigton, Scotland on or about 10th January and started No. 193 Air Navigators AFU Course.
Towards the end of January I 'went sick' with an undulant fever. Local Medical Officer did not believe me until I got rapidly worse and eventually was transferred to Hospital near Stranraer where Glandular fever was diagnosed. Whilst there, a survivor from a crashed Anson was brought in and all the 'stops' were pulled out to help him survive. Although nearly every bone in his body was broken he gradually rallied and started to make a miraculous recovery. Having recovered from Glandular Fever, I was diagnosed to have a mild leukaemia and started getting massive injections of iron and ate liver until it almost came out of my ears. Walked for miles in the surrounding countryside with some of the other patients and after a while felt fitter than I had for a long time.
I rejoined No. 226 Course on 7th April and finally finished there on 2nd May. I was posted to No. 12 O.T.U. (Operational Training Unit) at a place called Chipping Warden near Banbury. I arrived at Banbury railway station on my own and started enquiring about transport to the RAF Station. I met a Squadron Leader Pilot who informed me that he had already arranged for transport, which would be along in 'about an hour'. We sat and talked and I learned that he was called Nigel Macfarlane (Mac), a Rhodesian, who had already done a 'tour' in Hampdens. He told me that we were both two days late for the start of the course, although through no fault of our own. He seemed to be quite interested in me and my background.
When we arrived on the course, we discovered that most of the others had already had time to choose their own crews and Mac immediately asked me to be his navigator. Together we then looked around for the rest of the crew.
Eventually we got ourselves sorted out and finished up with
Pilot – Squadron Leader Nigel G. Macfarlane
Navigator – Pilot Officer Dennis Moore
Bomb Aimer – Pilot Officer Fred H. Shepherd
Wireless Operator – Sergeant 'Napper' Dennis Evans
Mid Upper Gunner – Sergeant Jimmy Bourke
Rear Gunner – Sergeant 'Nobby' Clarke (655)
The Flight Engineer, Sergeant 'Johnnie' Forster (later to become Pilot Officer), joined us later – after we had left Chipping Warden.
Fred Shepherd wore an 'N' brevet as he had completed a Navigation Course but for some reason had been re-mustered to Bomb Aimer at the end of his course?
The OCU aircraft identification was 'FQ'. All the flying was done in Wellingtons and it is worth noting that one of these – Z1735 – 'S', actually set a record of longevity by operating at this unit from early 1942 until January 1945. We only flew in this aircraft once. During the course both Fred & I were made Flying Officers and the Sergeants promoted to Flight/Sergeant.
We were on an exercise on the night of 5/6th June (D-day), and at the time could not understand why there were so many other aircraft in the sky!
On the 10th July we completed our first Operational flight on what was called a 'Nickel'. We dropped leaflets over Angers in France. The trip was successful and no difficulties other than 'Flak' were encountered.
Much of our flying here was from the 'satellite' airfield of Edgehill which was some distance away and actually on the site of the old battlefield.
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We finished our training about the 15th July, by which time we all seemed to work well together and all the instructors rated Mac very highly.
Posted to No. 1653 HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit) Chedburgh, Suffolk, on or about 28th July after leave. Flying on Stirlings commenced on the 14th August, firstly on 'A' Flight doing mostly circuits and bumps by day & night and then on 'C' & 'D' Flight doing Cross Country, followed by high level bombing practice. During the course we had 2 undercarriage collapses but otherwise the Stirling was quite a pleasant aircraft to fly in.
We did a fair bit of interchange of jobs except that our flight engineer, Johnny Forster had now joined us and he got the major share of actually flying it. I had a short lesson and also a session in the rear turret. It was here that I discovered that I did not feel at all happy looking down. I actually dropped a stick of practice bombs and did very well. On the ground we also did exercises at each other's job and on the gunnery range my '4 sec' burst disintegrated the moving target!
Whilst doing each other's jobs we found out that Mac (the pilot) had attended the Specialist Navigators Course just when the war started (he had come over from Rhodesia and joined the Air Force in 1938). This made three of us who were so-called navigators and it could have presented a problem, particularly as Fred Shepherd rather fancied himself in that role. However, on one trip, Fred started to try and give changes of aircraft heading to Mac from 'pinpoints' that he had observed on the ground without letting me know. Mac had no hesitation in telling the whole crew that, although there were two others who 'at a pinch' could possibly take over, there was only one navigator in the aircraft whilst he was Captain and that was me!! – and he had every faith in my ability to look after all of us as far as the navigation was concerned. This certainly boosted my ego and from then on we all got on famously.
The course was completed on the 4th September and we were quickly posted to No. 3 LFS (Lancaster Finishing School) at Feltwell where we arrived on 7th. Feltwell was a grass airfield with no runways but, nevertheless, we finished our conversion in 4 days and then rushed to No. 218 Squadron at Methwold so that Mac could take over the job of c/o 'A' Flight. We discovered that a few nights previously the Squadron had lost 5 aircraft, one of the crews being the Flight Commander. This was somewhat of a shattering experience to start off with but fortunately our first operation was a relatively easy one, bombing by daylight 'V1' bomb sites at Boulogne. 'Flak' (Anti-Aircraft shells) was quite heavy but there was no fighter activity.
During the rest of September we did two more daylight trips and 1 night trip to Neuss near Dusseldorf. During the early days of Oct. we converted to a form of specialised bombing called 'G.H' – an extension of OBOE. This used a tracking beam and a crossing beam for the release point. On this system the bomb aimer only had to set up the bomb release and I did the actual bombing run and release. The exercises we did proved to be extremely accurate and we regularly dropped practise bombs to within 50 yards from 20,000 feet.
Methwold was built just before the war but had no permanent brick buildings and accommodation was in Nissen huts dispersed in the woods, some over a mile from the Mess, which could only be reached over muddy footpaths. It started to get quite cold in these huts quite early on and scrounging for fuel for the stoves became a major pastime. Barbara Sharp, who used to live five doors from us in Beddington, turned up at Methwold but she did not stay for long. The film 'Journey together' was shot at Methwold and David Tomlinson the actor (of 'Bedknobs & Broomsticks' with Julie Andrews) was on one of the Squadrons. The author – Miles Tripp was a bomb-aimer on the Squadron and his book "The Eighth Passenger" tells of his crew and what happened to them both during and after the war. He talks of one trip taking off at a certain time when we actually took off 1 minute before him on the same operation. My experience and his seemed to differ completely on this particular occasion (see copy of his book obtained 20/01/1994!!).
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During October we completed 2 daylights and 3 night ops and after 1 trip (at night) in November Mac was posted to Mildenhall as Commanding Officer No. 15 (XV) Squadron and promoted to Wing Commander. The next day he sent an aircraft over to fetch us and we then joined the Squadron officially. As the C/O's crew we did less trips than anyone else and as Mac decided to act as a check pilot for the first trip with all new crews, we were asked to fly with one of the Flight Commanders called Flight Lieutenant Pat Percy (known to us as 'Tojo'). This was not a popular move as he was not of the same calibre as Mac but for special trips Mac flew with us and the difference was noticeable by everyone. Tojo was promoted to Squadron Leader in mid-December and we finished the month carrying out 3 daylight and 3 night trips. One of these was as 'Master Bomber' on the Schwammenauel Dam with Mac.
[photograph]
Mildenhall, December 1944
XV Squadron crew, with Lancaster "C" Charlie, ME844
[photograph] [photograph]
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1945
New Year's day opened the month with a 6 hour 5 minute night trip and during the rest of the month a further two night ops and three day trips were completed. On the 14th, returning from Saarbrucken, the East Anglian weather deteriorated so much that all aircraft had to be diverted. We finished up at Predannack in Cornwall and it was an absolute shambles. It is amazing that there were not any collisions as aircraft with very little fuel left tried to get into unknown airfields.
Most of our spare time when 'ops' were not in the offing we used to spend at the Bull at Barton Mills. Mac had his wife Margaret (from Nottingham) and his baby son Ian living there and the whole crew went to keep her company, particularly when Mac himself was not able to be there (see note at end of 1945). He often went with 'Sprog' crews on their first operation, to try and make sure that they were capable of operating on their own. We made many friends from No. 90 Squadron based at Tuddenham, which was also nearby and particularly with a Squadron Leader Pete Dunham and his crew who we subsequently saw blowing up on a daylight operation (see scrapbooks)
Only 2 trips in February (1 day – 1 night) both with Mac, and during this time Johnnie Forster was commissioned and Fred & I took him to London to get kitted out.
About this time I first met Pam. She was going out with Fred and visited him at Mildenhall. For some reason or other we were walking back to camp from the village as a group and Fred chose to go off with somebody else and Pam walked back with me.
Also around about this time I had bought a car and 'passed my test' by driving on leave with 4 passengers down through the centre of London. BAU 62 was a blue Ford saloon named 'EROS' which I bought for £30 at an auction of the effects of a deceased pilot.
Sometime during the month, my sister Joyce came up to visit. She stayed at a small pub quite near the main camp. I have always thought that it was called the George but visits in recent years have failed to find a pub with this name. [italics] (27/05/2014 – Fred Shepherd confirmed that it was "The Bird in Hand" which is just outside the old main gate – Ed) [/italics]
7 Daylight ops during March and mostly with a Canadian bomb-aimer called Tom Butler who stood in for Fred who was deputising for the Bombing Leader. On most of these we led either the Squadron, the Base (No. 32) or the whole Group. A Base was a small group of RAF airfields & 3 Group comprised all the Heavy Bomber Squadrons in East Anglia. All these 'daylights' were flown in quite tight formation – depending on the opposition! To boost moral back at the Squadron, our return over the airfield was always in as tight a formation as possible. On 23rd March we bombed a very precise area on the German side of the Rhine at Wesel (we were the lead aircraft), in preparation for our troops crossing. From all the aircraft bombing, 80 despatched and 77 actually bombed, only one bomb fell outside the perimeter (not us!) and that was as a result of a 'hang up' and not the fault of the crew. In Dudley Saward's authorised biography of "Bomber" Harris, this attack was listed as – 'perhaps the best example of direct support of the Army were the attacks on troop concentrations in Wesel on 23rd March by seventy seven heavies dropping 435.5 tons of bombs immediately prior to the Army launching its crossing of the Rhine and capturing Wesel'. Montgomery wrote to Harris – "My grateful appreciation of the quite magnificent co-operation you have given us. The bombing of Wesel yesterday was a masterpiece and was a decisive factor in making possible our entry into that town before midnight".
At this stage of Bombing Operations in Europe the number of 'Ops' required to complete a 'Tour' changed week by week. At the beginning of the year it was more or less standard at 30 but then it went up, first to 35 then to 40 before coming back down to 35 again in early March. When we went on our 33rd trip on 14th April we still expected to have at least another two to do. It was very much of a pleasant surprise to be told that we had finished as the tour had just been reduced again to 30!! One of the most difficult of trips was always the last with the crew
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so worked up that inevitably things went wrong and the crew failed to return. We were lucky not to have had to go through that trauma. Although so late on in the war, losses were still extremely high, with aircraft being shot down by flak and the more modern German fighters even by rocket aircraft. Losses averaged 5% per trip right up to the end. The end of the European war (VE Day) came on my last day of 'End of Tour' leave and after some celebrations on the way eventually got back to camp to find the mess having a huge party which spread onto the front lawn with fireworks and a colossal bonfire.
Without having much time to think about what was happening, the crew split up and I was posted to Catterick for "Disposal", leaving on the following day. I drove up to Catterick on official petrol coupons and went through the boring process of half choosing and half being told where to go next. At the time it seemed like a good idea to elect for Transport Command to get away from having to stay in Bomber Command and being posted to the Far East in what was known as 'Tiger Force'. I had hoped that I could get on to routes in-and-around Europe!!
After a further leave, when I had to drive on 'acquired' petrol, I was eventually posted to No. 109 Transport OTU Crosby-on-Eden near Carlisle, arriving around the beginning of June. After 4 weeks 'Ground' school – after a false start, I crewed up with:
Pilot – Flying Officer 'Butch' Harris
Signaller – Warrant Officer Ernie Omerod
and flying on DC3 (Dakotas) began on the 7th July and finished on 27th August. On the 1st August the unit was reorganised as 1383 Transport Conversion Unit and it was here that the news of the dropping of the Atom Bombs was announced, as well as the end of the war. Another tremendous party to celebrate.
I was then posted to India! Departed for Morecombe to await transit instructions. Pam came up for few days and we went fishing for Dabs with the others! On 7th October departed for Holmsley South (Hampshire) and the following day we left in a York (MW167) of 246 Squadron for Karachi via Malta, Cairo and Shiebah, arriving on the 10th. Spent a whole month kicking our heels in Mauripur (Karachi) before moving on (see photo album).
On 16th November departed in Sunderland (ML786) for Calcutta. Had a 7 1/2-hour flight, taking-off and landing in the appropriate rivers and enjoying the luxury of a civilian aircraft even though flown by a Wing Commander.
Arrived on 52 Squadron at Dum Dum, Calcutta and almost immediately started route flying in Dakotas. Places visited:
Akyab
Bangkok
Bombay
Canton
Chakulia
Chittagong
Comilla
Hong Kong
Meiktila
Nagpur
Rangoon
Saigon
Although now 3 months since the war finished, there were still the last of the Japanese soldiers (now prisoners) working at various places we flew to and there was much evidence of the utter destruction caused by their occupation. Most of our flights were to ferry the civil and military occupation forces back and forth and even to the more remote areas.
Christmas Eve and Christmas Day were spent on a round trip to Rangoon via Meiktila where our Xmas Dinner was a bacon 'sarni' (we actually had flown in the bacon!)
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1946
New Year's day was spent en-route to Bombay having only returned the night before from Rangoon again. During the month we flew some 71 hours.
Until 5th May we flew with only very short breaks in between and in one month (March) flew 106 hours. It was in March when we had to divert whilst flying over Hainan Island and the only option open to us was to go to Canton (China). We became the first British aircraft to land there since the beginning of the war. As I was the senior British Officer on board the aircraft, the British Consul would only talk to me even though I was not Captain of the aircraft. He was virtually useless and was going to try and arrange for various families to accommodate us in ones and two? The American Consul offered to put everyone up in his Headquarters and I agreed to this much to the annoyance of the British bloke (I seem to remember his name was HALL). Within a few minutes everything was arranged and all 30 odd people allocated a bed, even though somewhat crowded. The crew adjourned to the bar and, as the song 'Rum & Coca-Cola' was all the rage at the time, that's what we decided to have. It slid down very easily and after eating out at a local Chinese Café we eventually returned rather noisily, tripping over various passengers beds in the process. In the morning 7 of the passengers refused to fly with us and decided to return to Hong-Kong by boat. We did the trip in a matter of minutes whilst they took nearly the whole day. To give them their due, when we met up again in Hong-Kong, their spokesman apologised to us and admitted that we knew our own job better than they thought we did and then he bought us all a further round of 'Rum & Coke'.
Soon after this episode we were allocated a very young 2nd pilot called Terry Glover, who ousted me from my usual position in the right-hand seat. After a very scary let-down into Hong-Kong (letting down well out to sea and flying very low level over the water and between the numerous islands) we were guided by our new pilot into a dead-end which was not very popular with 'Butch', who immediately climbed very rapidly, put me back in the right-hand seat and then did a smart 180 before doing another letdown. This time I was lucky enough to find the right way through the islands and from then on I always sat in the front unless the conditions were CAVU (Clear and Visibility unlimited). In 1946 Kaitak airfield was a very different airfield compared to today. The main runway was usually only used from one end (from seaward) as a 1200ft. mountain blocked the other end. It was just possible to land the other way by just scraping the top of the 'Hill' and cutting back on everything, dropping like a stone then pulling out at the last moment!! We did it a number of times but only when the weather was good and even then it was quite exciting. After the war the whole of the mountain was removed and dumped in the sea at the other end of the runway, thus extending the runway considerably. Photos in the brown embossed album just about show this hill. More pictures in the album show various other views and other places. We stayed in a transit 'Hotel' called the 'Arlington' and did a great deal of sightseeing. Bearing in mind that the colony had only just been recovered from the Japanese, there was plenty to see and do. A suite in the Peninsular Hotel (the largest at the time) had been occupied by the Japanese General commanding the colony and was fitted out to remind him of home and even had a little stream running through the bedroom!!
One of the delights of our stays in Hong-Kong was the chance to be able to drink fresh cold milk and we always made a beeline for the local Milk-Bar as soon as we arrived and indulged in the luxury of a long cold pint!! Food also seemed plentiful and we fed well in one or the other of a Russian Café on the mainland, which was called "Timoschenko's" or the "Paris Grille" over on Kowloon.
Our stops in Saigon were also not without their drama as well as relaxation. The French always resented our having taken over from them and a continuous subtle 'infighting' was always taking place. The airfield was run by a joint-force and both the French and British Flags flew side by side on separate flagpoles over the airfield Control Tower. The British troops started one night by taking the French pole down and sawing a foot off the end before putting it back up so that their flag was slightly lower than ours. Apparently it took them a long time to notice but when they did, they reciprocated. Eventually new flagpoles were required and these
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got progressively longer and longer. One evening we arrived to discover the French very much up in arms because the following day their General Leclerc was coming on an inspection visit and they had caught our chaps taking their flag away altogether. As a result we were prevented from parking our aircraft in its usual position and were made to place it in part of a semi circle of aircraft on the tarmac in front of the Control Tower. We told them that we needed to leave at our usual time the following morning (around 8.30 to 9.00) to give us plenty of time in daylight for the 6 1/2-hour flight to Hong-Kong. They chose to ignore us and insisted we park where they told us, despite our protests. When we arrived early the next morning from our hotel in the town, French troops and a large band were already drawn up inside the semi circle, awaiting the arrival of General Leclerc. We carried out our normal preparations, including starting up the engines and testing them out! This infuriated the French and when we went back into the Control Tower for Met. and Flight Clearance briefing, they threatened to arrest us. The British staff winked, gave us a full briefing, with both Met. and the arrival times of visiting dignitaries, and assured us that they would give us taxi and take-off clearance. Walking casually through the French ranks, we informed one of the officers that they would need to move whilst we taxied out but nobody moved. We then decided that it was time to go, so started up our engines again and called for taxi clearance. We got no reply so started to move forward very slowly. The troops decided to give us room to get through and moved aside, but as we turned it was necessary to rev up the port engine and this we did somewhat more enthusiastically than usual. When we managed to look back the bandsmen were chasing their sheet music all over the airfield, so we gave an extra blast just to complete the havoc. As we did so the controller came through advising us to take off immediately and clear the area. Once airborne, the British controller bid us 'good-day' and thanked us for our 'co-operation' and we could hear the glee in his voice. Almost immediately we were formatted upon by 4 Free French Spitfires and we had visions of them shooting us down. However, they stayed with us for nearly 10 minutes before breaking away sharply and going back the way we had come. We found out on the return visit that they thought we were the General's aircraft and that the General's aircraft had landed before they got back. Apparently he was NOT amused to have to arrive without an escort and the Band still not fully reformed!!
On top of all this there were Dacoits and Bandits operating in the area, and there were gunfights around the airfield and Saigon on a number of occasions. Despite all this we enjoyed our leisure in Saigon, the French Club 'Ciercle Sportif' (see Photos).
About this time, I had applied for a job with BOAC through Mr. Robson who was something to do with the Ministry of Transport. I had been given a very good character assessment by our Squadron Commander (see his remarks in my Log-Book) and had hoped that the experience of 'route' flying would stand me in good stead.
In mid May we were given 2 weeks leave and we decided to find the coolest spot we could, so decided to visit Darjeeling. We went by train to a place called Siliguri, which is at the base of the Himalayas. By the time we got there we were hotter than ever and did not relish another train ride up to Darjeeling. However, we joined a miniature train which slowly but surely wound its way up the mountains and it got progressively cooler all the time. When it got near to the top it was going round and round like a corkscrew and in many places it was possible to step off the train, as it was moving very slowly, and then walk up a few steps to meet the line again and wait for the train to come past again. There is a picture of this in the photo album and this little railway is in fact quite famous. By the time we reached Darjeeling I was freezing cold and we had to hang about whilst accommodation was arranged for us. I remember flopping down on a bed in a dingy "guest house" and the next thing I remembered was waking up in the local Forces Hospital. It seemed that I had gone down with a severe bout of flu and some other chest bug as well. I was extremely well looked after in this hospital and there were a number of Sikh and Ghurka officers in the place as well. They all had serious complaints of some sort but as I got better they were a good crowd to be with. Towards the end of the 14 days leave, the others that I had come up to Darjeeling with departed back to Calcutta and I was given an indefinite extension, with sick leave on top. Before leaving the hospital, I was taken by the others to visit the highest racecourse in the world. It was at a place called Lebong and was at 14,000 feet. It was about the size of a large football ground and spent most of the time in
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cloud. Betting was a hazardous affair, as it was not unknown for the horses to disappear into cloud on the far side of the curse, only to re-appear in a completely different order when they came back into view! However, it was very pleasant to be able to sit in a reserved box, rather like the Royal Box at Epsom, drinking our cool drinks and placing a bet when the mood took us. We never ever won anything but nevertheless didn't lose much either. One morning, very early, a whole gang of us hired horses and rode the 15 miles or so to a place called Tiger Hill where we hoped to witness sunrise over Everest. We did see Everest but the sunrise was not quite where we had thought it should be. It was a magnificent sight, however, and well worth the effort to get there. The ride back was less pleasant and we all finished up vowing never to ride a horse again. Needless to say I never have.
One of the patients from the Hospital was a chap called Captain Weston who had a very rare skin complaint which was caused by the heat and humidity of the climate on the plains. His skin peeled off in layers and as a result he nearly died. It was only in the cool of the hills that his skin was able to grow again but as soon as the Medics tried to get him back home the whole process started again. Apparently on one occasion they got him as far as Calcutta ready to catch a plane out but unfortunately the aircraft takeoff was delayed and they had to rush him back to Darjeeling having already lost nearly the whole of his skin again and once again seriously ill. I have often wondered what ever happened to him when I left.
So many people out in India and the Far East suffered from skin problems as well as the dysentery types of disease. Apart from the time in Darjeeling I cannot remember being free from some form of diarrhoea varying from slight to chronic as well as 'Prickly Heat'. We all took Malarial prevention tablets called Mepachrine, which gave a yellowy tinge to the skin. Having the 'Trots' while flying was somewhat of a problem in itself. The Dakota only had one toilet and with 35 odd passengers most of whom suffered from the same problem made things somewhat complicated!! The prickly heat was no respecter of rank and once we had an Air Commodore on board who asked if he could come up front so that he could take his Bush Jacket off and get some cold air to his body. I had never before seen anyone who was so badly affected. His whole body was one mass of it and most was infected through scratching. We opened the side windows for him and after about an hour's flying he got some slight relief. He was most grateful to us and thanked us profusely before going back to the cabin to exercise his authority over the more junior members of his party. The Medics had no cures for any of these problems in those days although they could bring some help to the dysentery sufferers.
I was very reluctant to leave the cool of Darjeeling but eventually had to and took a mad taxi ride down through the tea plantations to the railway at Siliguri and almost finished up with a heart attack as the driver was desperate to show off his skill at negotiating hairpin bends on two wheels and only one hand on the steering. The road drops from about 12,000 feet to sea level in something like 15 miles and did not seem to go more than a few hundred yards without at least one hairpin to turn back on itself. The heat at sea level hit me like an oven and the train ride back to Calcutta was enough to make me swear never to complain about being too cold again. When you are cold at least you can find some way of keeping warm but there was absolutely no way out there that you could cool off when you were too hot.
Back in Calcutta the Monsoon had started with a vengeance but I was immediately informed that I was on the next 'demob' contingent and also that I had been offered a job as Navigator with BOAC as soon as I was 'demobbed'. Very soon after I was on the train again, en-route to Bombay. This took 3 days and we played cards nearly the whole time. I swore that I would never play 'Solo' again after that. It was sweltering hot the whole time and we had all the windows open to catch the air from the movement of the train but most of the time we just got the smoke and smuts from the engine. Food was only available at each of the many stops and since the train was only carrying troops it was a mad rush each time and more often than not we had to scramble back onto the train as it started to pull out of the station without having got anything.
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At Bombay we waited in the transit camp at WORLI until our turn came. After about two weeks we finally boarded the SS Samaria, a small passenger boat, which we were told would take 13-14 days to reach home. As we sailed out of the harbour a large liner steamed in and we were told that it would embark its passengers and sail again within 12 hours and only take 7 days to get home. Sure enough the following day we were galled to see it steaming passed [sic] us with all the troops on her decks jeering at us as they shot past. We were absolutely livid at the time and as everyone was anxious to get home as soon as possible we all felt hard done by. However, we heard later that the liner had broken down and had turned round and gone back to Bombay during the night. Like the tortoise and the hare the laugh was on us as we chugged slowly but surely and arrived in Liverpool after 12 days.
After disembarking we were quickly put through the 'demob' procedure including handing in our air force kit, medicals and being issued with civilian clothes and a rail warrant home and with the minimum of fuss we caught the train to London. All this happened within 24 hours of disembarking and, similarly quickly, arrangements were made for our Wedding on 19th October at St. Andrews church Leytonstone. After a Honeymoon in Hastings I was due to start with BOAC at the beginning of November. However, following a visit to my old civilian company to tell them that I did not want my old job back, I was introduced to Air Commodore Powell who was running SILVER CITY AIRWAYS and decided to join them instead, which I did on 5th November. On the 8th I was navigating an Avro Lancastrian G-AHBW (City of London) from London Heathrow to Nairobi Eastleigh, Captained by Ex-Wing Commander Johnny Sauvage DSO & bar, DFC, arriving back to the 4 huts of Heathrow on the 24th. During December we did 3 trips to Malta and back, one of them in the then record time of 4 hours 55 minutes (see cutting from the Malta Times). Thus ended a very eventful Year.
[photograph]
Sliver [sic] City Airways – December 1946
Johnny Sauvage and crew with Lancastrian G-AHBW “City of London”
20
1947
At the end of my RAF Transport Command Course at Crosby on Eden in 1945, I had been
awarded a certificate which was recognised by the Department of Civil Aviation. Also in February 1946 I had been awarded a Second Class Navigation Warrant number 422, which was also recognised by the D of CA. Whilst working in the office of Silver City Airways (1 Great Cumberland Place, London), I was able to study the additional subjects required to obtain a Civil Aircraft Navigator's Licence. I passed all except [underlined] signalling [/underlined] and re-took this and one other subject to obtain full First Class Civil Licence in May. After another full aircrew medical, licence number 2116 was issued on 7th June 1947.
On 13th June I started flying again with Captain Storm-Clark in G-AHBV "City of Canberra" to Verona. After a further 2 months in their office (during which time Terry was born, we moved from 63 Fladgate Road, Leytonstone, to38 Warham Road, South Croydon, as well as attending a XV Squadron reunion at the Holborn Restaurant on 22nd August), I joined up with Captain R. C. "Hoppy" Hopkins as his navigator on a VIP Dakota G-AJAV. This aircraft was very luxuriously fitted out, with only 6 seats and very superior accommodation. Hoppy immediately 'promoted' me to 'pupil pilot under instruction' and I spent most of my flying time with him sitting in the second pilot's seat, often on my own, while he chatted with the passengers. We flew to France, Belgium, Germany, Portugal and Iceland, as well as locally. I was very disappointed when the aircraft was chartered to fly Churchill out to Marrakesh and I was taken out of the crew. Another pilot took my place to act as formal second pilot/navigator. Hoppy was very upset particularly as the new chap was not a very experienced pilot and had never previously acted as navigator. He had long arguments with the MD of the company (Air Commodore Powell) expressing the opinion that he 'would rather fly with an experienced navigator who at a pinch could fly the aircraft than fly with a not very experienced pilot who, at a pinch, might possibly be able to navigate the aircraft'. Unfortunately the MD would not give way and blamed the charterers, who had insisted on there being two qualified pilots on board and the firm could not afford to have a crew of four (excluding stewards etc.).
In the event I was sent to Belfast to pick up a crew to ferry a Sandringham flying-boat to Buenos Aires. The pilot was called 'Pappy' Carreras (because of his age) and we got on famously together. As well as navigator I was 'promoted' to become 'Mooring Officer', which meant that I stood in the bows to slip the mooring before take-off and had to attempt to catch the mooring buoy with a boat-hook on landing. I had thought that slipping the mooring would be very simple but more often than not it was impossible to do as the aircraft was pulling against the tide and the loop would not come off without the engines being revved hard to take up the slack. Often we surged forward so quickly that I did not have time to get the loop off before we were passing the buoy – still attached to it. Mooring after landing was also just as tricky and I lost a number of boat-hooks before I finally mastered the technique!!
On the way we ate and slept in the 'boat' as the accommodation and cooking facilities were superb. On the leg between Dakar (West Africa) and Natal (Brazil), Pappy commented that although he had done the crossing a number of times, he had never seen Saint Paul's rocks. I gaily said that this time we would see them, not realising how small they were in the wide expanse of ocean. He immediately took me up on it and some 8 hours later (the crossing took 10 hours 20 minutes) was more than astonished when I suggested that if the others were to look out of the starboard windows they might see the rocks in about 5 minutes time. More by pure luck than anything to do with me, we passed them some 6 minutes later about 1/2 mile away. From then on I could do no wrong!!
Pappy had flown during the Spanish Civil War in 1936 but unfortunately for him – on the wrong side – so that he was no longer able to go home. His flying with F.A.M.A. (Flota Aerea Merchante Argentina) meant that he had to be very careful not to ever get diverted to Spain.
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Christmas day was spent in Buenos Aires and I was able to buy some presents there that I could not get at home. (A Tri-ang bus (No. 15) and Xmas Decorations – some of which are still in use today!!) We arrived back in London on New Years Eve (without Pappy who of course normally operated from B.A.)
As a result of my various trips abroad I did not spend much time at home, although when I did, I usually was able to have plenty of time-off from work.
Sometime round about October, Terry had gone into Great Ormond St. Hospital to have a growth removed from his neck. It was more difficult to remove than had originally been thought and when he was able to come home he became very ill with Gastro Enteritis and was taken to the Mayday Hospital in Croydon. He was desperately ill to start off with and took a long time to recover.
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1948
Worked mostly in the office until April, having attended a 52 Squadron Reunion at the Waldorf Hotel on 20th February when, on 8th April, I ferried a MOSQUITO out of Turkey via Jersey & Rome landing at IZMIR. Had trouble with Turkish Customs over three wooden deer bought in Rome. They could not seem to understand way anyone should want to buy such things! An insight into to [sic] the mentality of the Turks we came into contact with is highlighted by the fact that the Turkish government had purchased 100 odd SPITFIRES and a similar number of 'Mossies'. The deliveries were almost complete by the time we took ours out there but they only had managed to have one Mosquito & two Spits' remaining serviceable by that time. The story goes that one Spitfire XI was delivered one evening and the pilot handed it over to the ground crew asking if there was anything they wanted to know about it. During the night it rained hard and when they were getting it ready for a test flight they discovered that the cockpit had a pool of water in it. To cover up the fact that the cockpit hood had been left open in the rain, one bright spark took his drill with the biggest bit that he could find and bored a series of holes in the floor and to let the water drain out!! The Turkish pilot duly took off but came back in after a fairly short flight and refused to sign the acceptance certificate because the aircraft would not pressurise. Apparently the Spitfire XI was one of the first aircraft to have cockpit pressurisation!!!
In May we went to Canada to pick up a Dakota which had just been converted for a company in South Africa. I stayed in Montreal whilst the rest of the crew went down into the States to pick it up. At the time I thought the whole set-up seemed strange but the fact that aircraft were being flown illegally into Israel at the time never occurred to me. Eventually we set off from Montreal to Newfoundland but I didn't prepare properly and we wandered miles off course and I was unable to get a pinpoint fix because I could not recognise any ground feature. Since I had been sitting in the second pilot's seat I eventually decided to go back and try to fathom out why we were 'lost'. After a long period I suddenly realised what I had done wrong – I had borrowed a Canadian map that had the various airline tracks marked on and along the side were the courses to steer. What I had not noticed was that they were magnetic and not [underlined] true [/underlined] bearings. I had applied a correction for the wind and applied variation as usual to arrive at the course for the pilot to steer. As variation in that part of the world was something like 30 degrees, we had in fact been flying 30 degrees off course!! Once I had sussed this out I was soon able to recognise where we were and to start pointing us back in the right direction. Sighs of relief all round!! If we had had some decent radio equipment aboard it would not have been so bad but the aircraft was stripped right down to bare essentials – In retrospect another odd thing.
When we landed at GANDER my preparation was suddenly very much more thorough, the next leg being across the Atlantic. With the fuel that we could carry there were three choices of route bearing in mind the winds that could be expected in the weather systems that existed. First, to head straight across to Ireland and make for Shannon – this was ruled-out as there would be barely enough fuel to do it. Second, to go southwards to the Azores. This was the best for fuel, wind & weather but without radio navigation aids was rather risky – if we missed our landfall there was nowhere to divert to within range of the fuel remaining (if any!). Third, to head for Iceland, which was much the nearest. Unfortunately, with the low-pressure system to the north, the winds would be headwind and very strong. This would again leave us very short of fuel and, as well as this, the landing conditions forecast were not very good. As a result of our discussions we decided that unless we waited a couple of days for the weather to improve, we should consider a fourth possibility of taking the short leg to Greenland, refuelling and then heading for Iceland the following day. This would only, so we thought, take one more day and would allow us to assess the fuel situation when approaching Iceland and perhaps carry on direct to Scotland and, in fact, save us time. This we finally decided to do and although we were unable to get clearance due to radio interference, the controller assured us that it would be alright as he would radio through later on whilst we were on our way. After a very frightening flight to Bluey West One, up a long fiord, we arrived only to be refused landing permission as the flight had not been cleared. Since there was no way we could get back to Gander and there were no other diversions they eventually agreed to let us land. When we did
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the aircraft was surrounded with soldiers and we were told that we would be interned until clearance could be obtained from Washington because of the Israeli situation!!
So there we sat for 7 days whilst the powers-that-be decided what to do with us. We had all bought loads of food to bring home as meat was still rationed and other foodstuffs were in short supply. We had a small fridge on board the aircraft but they would not allow us to run one engine to keep it cold and they would not store it for us. There we were, surrounded by huge Glaciers, whilst all our 'loot' went slowly off. In the end we had to dump nearly all of it. I got sunburned sitting on the nearest glacier and this did little to improve our tempers. Eventually on the 7th day we were allowed to file a flight plan to Weeks (Iceland) and we took off at 22.45 that night. At that time of year it was still almost broad daylight and we landed and refuelled in Iceland, at night but still light enough to see. Two hours later we were off again and landed at Prestwick after a 5hr 40min flight.
After this I was transferred back to flying with Hoppy but in a Bristol Wayfarer (freighter) this time. The first trip was to Karachi via all the short legs possible. We were delayed in Nicosia whilst a new propeller was sent out and we helped the engineer to change it. There was no help forthcoming from the locals (civilian & RAF) although I cannot remember why. This took 7 days and then we were delayed for a further 9 days by the Iraqi Government, so that the whole trip had taken 24 days. It was about the time of Partition in India and the whole of the region was in turmoil. I met a chap that I knew well who was running some form of charter company out there, who offered me a job on the spot, at a ludicrously high salary, if I would join him the same day. The offer was so attractive that I was sorely tempted but I did not want to break my contract with Silver City and leave Hoppy in the lurch. I suspected that the job was either gun running or illegal transport of refugees, so in the end I turned it down. I was to learn later, that the day after we left he tried to take off from Karachi and the plane was so grossly overloaded in the tail that it stalled just after becoming airborne and all aboard were killed outright. As we suspected the cargo was found to be arms and ammunition!!
The next trip was out to Iraq on charter to IPC (Iraqi Petroleum Company) and we flogged up and down the oil pipelines. Having been stuck in Baghdad last trip we had all suffered from the lack of liquid refreshment (alcohol banned and water somewhat 'iffy'), so I bought two bottles of orange squash in Malta to take with us. When I opened my case in Baghdad I discovered a somewhat wet and sticky mess where one of the bottle tops had come loose. Just about everything was covered in juice but it was not until we got to Bahrein that I was able to get everything washed and the case swilled out! It was lucky that we stayed there an extra day or else I would have had to bring the whole soggy mess back home with me. As it was the case was never the same again, even when I relined the inside with brown paper. Terry had the case for a number of years and finally gave it back to me in 1991!
At the end of September I, along with a number of other navigators, was made redundant and then I started my first experience of having to hunt for a job to keep the family fed!! I applied for a job with Flota Aerea Merchante Argentina and, along with another navigator from Silver City called Ross Plews, was called for an interview in their offices in the West-End. We were horrified to see a crowd of 20 or 30 people waiting and spilling out on to the pavement outside. We debated what to do and had decided that, as we were almost the last ones there, it was not worthwhile waiting. We were just about to walk away, when who should try to push past us than Pappy Carreras, who immediately asked me what the crowd was about. When we explained her said, "Wait there while I check in". This we did and within minutes we were called to the front of the queue, much to the disgust of most of the others, and both of us went into for interview to discover Pappy sitting at the long desk with three other officials and I was introduced to the others by him. He then said, "this is the chap I have flown with down to BA and he is the one I would choose without seeing any of the others. If his friend is as good as him we may as well take him on as well – has anyone any objections? – No! – Good! – That's it then! – Let's send all the others away. Welcome to FAMA Dennis – You are hired”.
That's how I came to be flying on an Argentinean York, en-route to Buenos Aires in the first week of November. We were delayed in Natal for three days whilst an engine fault was
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corrected and I got badly sunburned whilst swimming in the sea when there was no shade. Having arrived in Buenos Aires we were met with welcoming arms and I started to look around for somewhere to live but very shortly after a new decree was issued by Eva Peron (she was the power behind throne!) limiting the number of non-nationals working in the country. As FAMA was 75% British, 15% German and the rest Argentinean, this caused immediate problems and, since we were the last to arrive, we were scheduled as the first to go. I was offered the opportunity to navigate a force of Lincolns as a show of strength over the 'Malvinas', provided I gave up my British nationality and took on Argentine citizenship. This I refused to do and so started a week of negotiations to collect some form of compensation and what was already due to me. The expression 'mañana' really came into play and it took all our wits to find someone high enough in the organisation who had the power to do something about our plight. They, in their turn, did everything they could to beat down our demands. Once again it was Pappy Carreras who came to our rescue and we eventually got a flight back with Pappy (see 'Crossing the Line' certificate) landing back in London on the 3rd of December. We came via Madrid and Pappy had been given permission for the very first time to re-enter Spain. Even then he decided to stay in the Airport – just in case.
Once I got back I was quite surprised to get a number of phone calls from various firms offering me a job and I was able to pick and choose, finally agreeing to start at the beginning of the New Year with Flight Refuelling, the firm founded in 1934 by Sir Alan Cobham to investigate the use of air refuelling, and who's pioneering system is still in use today. The BERLIN AIRLIFT was under way and all the Charter firms were fighting for the work that it generated.
[logo] Berlin Airlift [emblem]
[drawing]
[inserted] TX 276/1281 [/inserted]
AVRO LANCASTRIAN – FLIGHT REFUELLING LTD
47403
On 23 June 1948, the Soviet forces occupying the eastern part of Germany blockaded all rail, road and waterway supply routes from the Allied Western Occupation Zones in Berlin. With less than one month’s supply of food and fuel, the prospects for the two and a half million Berliners looked bleak. Only three severely restricted air routes remained as a lifeline between the besieged city and the western world. The Allies responded immediately with a miracle of logistics – The Berlin Airlift. Codenamed Operation Vittles by the USAF, and Operation Plainfare by the RAF, over a period of 11 months Allied aircraft made thousands of flights into the cramped airspace of Berlin and succeeded in supplying everything the city needed. Every available aircraft from RAF Transport Command was in service, as well as hundreds of USAF aircraft and even civil charter firms were called upon to supplement the effort. The operation became so skilled that the Soviet Command eventually realised that they had failed and on 12 May 1949 the blockade was finally lifted.
Avro Lancastrian G-AGWI represents an aircraft which was originally delivered to British South American Airways (BSAA) at Heathrow in January 1946. The aircraft was registered to the Ministry of Civil Aviation for a short period in 1948 before being sold to Flight Refuelling in January 1949. The aircraft was then allotted fleet no. Tanker 26 and flew 226 sorties on the Berlin Airlift.
[inserted] I FLEW IN 13 OF THEM [/inserted] [diagram]
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1949
I report to Flight Refuelling at Tarrant Rushton and am crewed up with a very experienced ex-Air Lingus pilot. It was not until later that I was to discover that he had been sacked from them due to being drunk in flight! After an air test we departed in a Lancastrian for Wuntsdorf just outside Hanover on 13th January. The airfield was RAF and being used by them to fly Yorks on the airlift. It was very crowded with both aircraft and people and we were billeted in a small place called Bad Nenndorf about 10 miles away. There was a reasonable sized Hotel where all Flight Refuelling crews were accommodated. The following day we did two trips into Gatow carrying PETROL.
B.T. O'reilly was the name of the pilot and he became somewhat of a legend on the lift. However he was not a very reliable pilot when sober and, although he boasted that he could land the aircraft better 'on a sea of gin' than any other time, sometimes he was positively dangerous. On one occasion whilst flying into Gatow, I saw him climb out of his seat and then push past me and go to the back of the aircraft. I thought it would be a good idea to go forward and keep an eye on the instruments to make sure 'George' was doing its job properly. To my consternation, I saw that the aircraft was trimmed into a shallow dive (perhaps to counter his moving to the toilet at the rear of the aircraft?) and there was no sign of him returning back to his seat. When we descended below 1,000 feet I decided to get into his seat and was absolutely astounded to discover that the autopilot was not even engaged. I climbed it back up to the proper altitude and called the wireless operator to go and look for 'BT'. He reported back to say that 'BT' was 'out cold' on one of the seats at the back and he could not get him to register that he was needed! At this point we were committed to carry on towards Gatow as we were in the air corridor in the Russian Zone, so I decided that I would make up some story to over fly Gatow and hope that by the time we had got back to Wuntsdorf 'BT' might have surfaced. In the event, just as we approached the Beacon to start letting down to land, 'BT' pushed up to the front and demanded to know why I was in the pilot's seat. We swapped over and I pointed out that he had not put 'George' in when he went down the back. His reaction was happily to say, "these aircraft fly themselves!!" and then carried on to make a perfect landing. I was must relieved when I was asked to take an aircraft back to Tarrant Rushton with another pilot and never had to fly with him again. I was crewed up with a better chap on our return to Germany.
At the end of April we moved to Hamburg and started flying into Tegel instead of Gatow. In June I was allocated yet another pilot who was very young and inexperienced and I was not over happy with him either. When we were withdrawn from the airlift in mid-July, I had completed 89 flights back and forth to Berlin and also carried out a number of ferrying flights to Tarrant Rushton. (See Lecture Notes and 50th Anniversary Celebrations 1999)
[photograph]
With Col. Gail S. Halvorsen – "The chocolate pilot"
Berlin Airlift 50th Anniversary, Berlin 1999
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Two books fully detail the Berlin airlift and the part played by the civil participants (they have been suitably annotated). The one by Robert Rodrigo is the better of the two.
The end of the airlift deposited hundreds of aircrew (many of whom had only just come back into flying for the good money) on to the job market and I was unable to find another flying post. Thus ended my civil flying career.
After flying for so long, finding an ordinary job where my abilities would be of some use and would be recognized by prospective employers, was very difficult. One day I saw a friend from schooldays called Peter Filldew whom I had met at Mildenhall during the war, where he was the orderly-room clerk. He suggested he might be able to get me a job with his firm of Estate Agents (Fielder & Partners) in South Croydon. He obviously gave me a glowing recommendation as my interview was quite short, and I was offered a job as a Negotiator with a very low salary but very good commission on completion of any property that I obtained for their books or was instrumental in selling. The work was very hard and I had to spend long and unsociable hours including Saturdays & Sundays but I managed reasonably well once I gained the necessary confidence.
Soon afterwards we moved house to 248 Croydon Road and this stretched our resources to almost breaking point. The car, BAU 62, which I had bought during the war, had to go and I only managed to get £5 for it and it almost broke my heart to see it being driven away. The bungalow cost something like £1,200 and I got somewhat into debt to raise even the 10% and buying fees. Everything was based on my getting the commission on sales that I thought I should be able to earn. 1949 ended with me still working for Fielder.
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1950
One day at Fielder's, I overheard the receptionist speaking on the phone to someone called Macfarlane and casually asked what were his initials. On being told that they were N.G., I asked to speak to him and asked if he recognised my voice which, after a short pause, he did and we immediately arranged to meet. This caused uproar from the sales manager called Chillcot, who insisted that Mac was already one of [italics] his [/italics] clients and I was not to be allowed to deal with him. All my explanations fell on deaf ears and I had to phone from home to explain this to Mac. He agreed to phone up and cancel the appointment we had made and say that he was not interested anymore. We arranged to meet one lunchtime and go home to our bungalow. I then told the Sales Manager that through his stupidity we had lost a good client and this started an antagonism between us.
The meeting with Mac was quite an event and he suggested that I should re-apply to come back into the RAF and he would back my application if he could. He was still a Wing Commander but holding a post at the Air Ministry and he thought he should be able to pull a few strings.
As a result of this meeting I decided to apply and, after a long wait, was called for interview by a panel, who seemed to feel that wartime service was not a good recommendation for a peacetime commission and they did not even listen to what I had done subsequently. After a further long wait I received a letter addressed to Flight Lieutenat [sic] D. Moore informing me that they were unable to offer me a commission but they would be prepared to let me return as 'NAV 2' (which was the same as Sgt.) As much as I would have dearly loved to have got back into the Service, my pride would not let me accept such a reduction in rank and I therefore wrote back straight away telling them what I thought of their offer.
Working for Chilcott became very difficult and it was obvious that things would come to a head soon. Just when I was expecting to start collecting my first big commissions I was told that I was no good at the job and 'fired'. They would only pay me up until the last day at the basic rate, and no commission money. I appealed to Fielder but he was obviously being influenced by his sales manager and would not help me.
On the job market again, I could only get menial jobs, first as a temp in what then equated to the DHSS issuing new National Insurance Cards and then a more permanent job in the Gas Company working in their costing department. My job was to cost out all the job sheets for the week from the job rates for the various jobs and individuals. This job was running weeks behind when I joined and it did not take long before I was able to catch up and sit waiting for the current week's work dockets to arrive. When the head of my section saw this he 'warned me off' and checked every item of my work so that we looked as though we were still working weeks behind time again. This got very frustrating and I started to look around for another job.
Through the good offices of the Officers' Association I was passed a number of job openings and eventually was interviewed by a firm of grocery distributors called Harvey Bradfield & Toyer. They wanted a salesman to help introduce a Milton's product called Deosan to cafés & restaurants as a means of getting to be their suppliers for groceries as well. I was given the whole of South London to canvas and had to do it all by 'cold selling' and without the use of any transport of my own. Fortunately I made my number with the Public Health Office and frequently got called by them to visit establishments that they had found to be 'unhealthy' and I was able to introduce 'The Deosan method of food hygiene' to them quite easily. I found that the standard of cleanliness in most places I visited to be almost non-existent and the large 'posh' Hotels were the worst. I found this job quite interesting but although I did not feel I was doing a very good job of it, the firm seemed quite happy with my work.
1950 ended with me still trudging around south London and hardly making enough money to live on. Christine had been born on May 28th and this did not make things any easier.
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1951
At the beginning of the year I was still working for H.B.T. and being called-on to visit various places in the South London Area. I asked for a special visit to the Head Office to discuss my work with my boss, who still seemed quite happy with what I was doing but made no effort to increase my wages. I do not remember exactly what I actually earned each week but it was round about £50 per month.
During the last week in March I was in Croydon on a visit and decided to call again on my friend in the Recruiting Office, and here I was asked if I had thought about applying to rejoin the RAF. When I explained about having applied once already and had only been offered 'Master Aircrew' which I had turned down, the Senior Recruiting Officer asked if I would mind if he phoned Air Ministry to find out what the latest situation was. I was quite happy for him to do this and did not expect anything to come of it. It was quite a surprise when he phoned me the next day to say that if I were to apply again I would be given every consideration, so I got him to help me fill in the necessary forms which he duly sent in. It was only a few days later that I was called for interview at the Air Ministry and I went with a totally different attitude to the previous time. When asked the first question which inevitably was 'Why do you want to rejoin the RAF' I decided to take the offensive and replied 'I am not sure if I do – I want you to convince me that I should'. From this point on I could do no wrong.
A greater part of the interview came from a Group Captain on the panel who kept asking me questions about the Argentine and seemed genuinely interested in the answers that I gave. The panel were all smiling when I left and the 'Groupie' asked me to wait for him outside. He then told me that I would be hearing within the next few days – at which I laughingly said that the last time I had heard that remark it had taken over 6 weeks for them to contact me. He assured me that he literally meant 'the next few days' and then asked me if I would wait for him and walk down to the Tube with him. This I did and he told me that he was due to be posted as the next Air Attaché in Buenos Aires hence his interest in my comments.
Two days later I was called for an Aircrew Medical and, having passed this easily enough, was offered a new commission in the RAF as a Flying Officer to start at Air Ministry on April 16th (this was barely 3 weeks since I visited the Recruiting Office in Croydon). Needless to say I accepted and duly reported for duty on the day required and then spent a month getting kitted out and doing some odd jobs for a Wing Commander in one of the departments there. Along with 13 other people reported to Central Navigation School at Shawbury on 23rd May for a Navigation Instructors Course. I teamed up with Jimmy Cuthill (with whom I shared a room) and Bob Hunter (who was a Canadian serving in the RAF).
[photograph]
Navigation Instructors Course, Shawbury 1951
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On 17th June I went with most of the others to Sick Quarters to have our inoculations brought up to date and as soon as I had had mine I began to feel odd. We all trouped back to the classroom and settled down to a lecture on 'how not to lecture' and I could feel myself 'blowing up like a balloon' and my heart racing like mad. I bemoaned the fact that I had never had a reaction to 'jabs' before and I really did feel rough. The Instructor eventually noticed that there was something wrong and told me to go back to the Mess and lie down. I remember 'floating' back and one of two gardeners asking me for the time and me just laughing back at them because I could not see the time on my watch. The next thing I knew was someone asking me how I felt and me just laughing like a mad thing again, and then later somebody standing over me and saying "I am just going to inject some adrenalin into you – you will find yourself shaking but try not to fight it – just let yourself go". I was then carried out to an ambulance and taken to the Station hospital. It seemed like hours before the shaking stopped but eventually it did and I felt very much better – in fact even asked for something to eat as I was hungry! Needless to say, I did not get a meal but was allowed a drink. After a while the M.O. (doctor) came to see me and explained what had happened. I had suffered an 'angino-neurotic' type of reaction to the inoculation and this was extremely rare and quite often fatal unless caught in time. It seems that when the lesson finished everyone wandered back to the Mess for lunch and, since it was a little late, everyone went straight in to eat except Jimmy Cuthill, who decided he ought to check up to see how I was. He found me unconscious on the bed and immediately called for the M.O. but could not find him. Fortunately he looked in the dining room and when he saw him eating his lunch insisted that he came up to our room immediately. The M.O. told me that if I had been left much longer I could very well have died. The humorous part of the story was that, after a good night's sleep and a hearty breakfast in bed, I felt completely fit and was allowed to rejoin the others in class. They were all sitting moaning about sore arms and feeling rotten and I was 'feeling no pain' and was able to 'lord' it over them for the rest of the day!
Flying started on my Birthday on Mark XI Wellingtons! and the course finished with an overseas flight using special navigation techniques (Grid Navigation). I was then posted to No. 1 Air Navigation School at Thorney Island and I reported there on 13th August. This was a prime posting and I was very pleased to get such a good one. However, it soon became obvious that something was not quite right. When I applied for married quarters I was told that I would not be considered "just yet" and no explanation was given when I queried this. When I tried to find out which courses I would be looking after I was allocated as course tutor and then, a little later, told that I was to be held in reserve pending the arrival of another course tutor. I then learnt that this new chap was Les Dibb who had been in the same Group at Shawbury and had hoped to be posted to Thorney but had eventually been posted to Lindholme. It then became fairly obvious that some 'string pulling' had been going on by someone at Thorney.
For the Open Day at Thorney I had arranged for Pam to bring Terry down for the day to look around and see the show. Nobody was more disappointed than me to have to tell her when she arrived that we were not going to be staying, since I had just been informed that my posting to Thorney was cancelled and that I was to report to No. 5 Air Navigation School at Lindholme on 19th September. Terry enjoyed the show until two aircraft flew over and dropped bags of flour (to represent bombs) and fake bangs designed to simulate the explosions & the crashes from the 'Anti Aircraft guns' frightened the life out of him. He yelled his head off and did not want to see anything else and all he wanted to do was to go home.
Just before leaving Thorney I met Ernie Ormerod (signaller) from back in 1946 as well as another signaller that I knew called 'Chuck' Radcliffe who was also on 52 Sqn. I really did not have enough time to do more than say hello before I was on my way.
I duly reported to Lindholme somewhat bitter about the whole thing but was immediately made Course Tutor under Flight Lieutenant 'Mick' Munday on No. 2 Long Navigation Refresher Course. This comprised 6 Officers and 1 NCO who had either been off flying for some long time or who had just come back into the Service. One of them, Flt.Lt. Willis, had been on the same course as me at ITW in Newquay. At the time he was re-mustering from Corporal SP
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(RAF Police) and we had given him a hard time during 'rough and tumble' games on the Beach. He subsequently became the Navigator with Prince Charles when he was learning to fly. They were a good crowd and I got on well with all of them. Our Classroom was a concrete hut, which had been used by the Poles as a church during the war and all the walls had been panelled with carved wood and decorated with religious artefacts. I could not get into quarters so I started looking around for somewhere to live (without much success), so I had travel up and down to Beddington whenever I could manage a weekend off. Without a car it was very difficult but I did manage to get lifts from time to time.
[photograph]
[underlined] No.2 L.N.R. COURSE. [underlined]
BACK ROW:- F/LT. CARR, F/O. GREEN, SGT. JONES, F/O. SWINFIELD.
FRONT ROW:- F/LT. WILLIS, F/O. D. MOORE, F/LT. H. MUNDAY, F/LT. HINGE, F/LT. ROWLAND.
NEGATIVE No LIND 290G 9 UN52/UNCLASSIFIED
When the Long Nav. refresher course finished we started to run navigation courses for National Service people. We found this to be very frustrating as most of those on the course were not the slightest bit interested in what they were doing and they had only chosen to become 'Navigators' as an easy way to spend their time instead of becoming 'PBI' (soldiers!) It was further made much worse when we were informed from a higher source that none of them were to be 'failed' (some political reason no doubt). One of them (a Pilot Officer Simpson) was so bad and such a bad influence on the others that we fought tooth and nail to get him 'scrubbed' but all we did was to made [sic] trouble for ourselves for 'making waves'. I shall always remember his face when he eventually 'passed out' as a navigator and was promoted to Flying Officer. He boasted openly that he was cleverer than us because he had 'beaten the system'. At the time I could only hope that he never had to put a flying crew at risk, as he would surely kill them all and himself as well. I often wonder what happened to him.
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1952
In the New Year we decided to sell the Bungalow and find somewhere up near Lindholme whenever we could. I negotiated with a Sergeant Paine who wanted to sell his car, and he agreed to accept a deposit and the balance as soon as we had sold the house. I did make it clear that I could not possibly pay him until the money came through from the solicitors and we had not even found a buyer for the Bungalow. At the time he seemed quite happy to agree to this but later had doubts and then started to cause me hassle. The car was a Hillman Minx Reg. No. FA7136, which served us well until about 1956.
In the meantime I found a house that the RAF were prepared to take on as a 'hiring' in Crabtree Drive at Five Lane Ends, Skellow, Just off the A1, about 7 miles North of Doncaster and I was able to start setting up a home there. Nowadays the Motorway around Doncaster rejoins the A1 just there and you can just see the road from the Service station at the junction.
The Bungalow sold quite quickly and we got £2,850 for it, having paid about £950 when we bought it. It took a while for all the loose ends to be tied up but eventually I got the money, paid off Sgt. Paine and moved the family up to the new place. Pam was sadly disappointed with it but the people were all very friendly and she began to like it after a while. We had a number of excursions from there and went to the sea at Hornsea on two or three occasions.
Having done well with No. 2 LNR Course I applied for a permanent commission but the Group Captain (Laine – I think) told me that I did not have the right kind of experience to suit me for a permanent career and turned me down. The Chief Navigation Instructor was Wing Commander Hickey (nicknamed 'Bone dome'), who also did not think much of me either. I rather think it had something to do with my leaving Thorney Island under odd circumstances.
After only a year and just getting settled into the house, I was surprised to find myself posted yet again. This time it seemed like a real improvement but very much a 'desk' job as one of the Navigation Examiners at the Command Examination Board, Flying Training Command at Shinfield Park just outside Reading. Our offices were in old huts a little removed from the main building and here began one of the more interesting posts of my career. We managed to find a bungalow to rent from a Mrs Samways at 36 Wood Way, Woodley and we were able to move from Doncaster quite quickly.
Having settled in, I was allocated the exams for the navigator's finals that I would be responsible for. These were: astro-navigation, maps & charts and magnetism & compasses. I also had to set the general navigation paper for pilots. I did not have much time to think before having to do a full set of exams and, only by Christmas, start to really appreciate the scope of the job.
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1953
To start off with, I had discovered that the questions on the subjects that I was to specialise in had previously been picked out by the examiner from a 'bank' of questions based on what had been set previously. After thinking about it for a while and based on my own experience decided that it was possible for the Instructors at the various Training Schools to work out a permutation which would more or less guarantee to predict over 60% of the questions.
All the exam papers were vetted by the newly appointed Chief Examiner (Gordon Arkley) and I did not have much difficulty in convincing him that we should be a bit more professional and he agreed that I could start-off by changing the system in one subject to be going on with. I started with astro navigation and set what I considered to be a very practical paper instead of the usual theory one. I sat back and waited and on the day of the exams the phone stated [sic] to ring and complaints came in thick and fast – 'Unfair', 'Not what we have been used to'; 'We were not able to prepare the students!' etc., etc. As a result, I was asked to attend a high power meeting of all the Chief Navigation Instructors and the senior people on the Examinations Board. In the meantime, I received all the papers for marking and the results showed that one school did very well but all the others failed miserably. When I was grilled at the meeting I was very pleased to have the backing of my own boss. When all of them were presented with the evidence that, apart from the one school, the others had not covered the syllabus properly and 'only taught what was necessary to get the students through the exam', there were a number of red faces and I was not very popular with them. However, the Chief of the Examination Board asked the schools to go back and put their houses in order and told them that from here on in, [underlined] [italics] all [/italics] [/underlined] examinations would be based on the new method and not on the 'Question Bank' method'. He then congratulated me on setting a fair and very practical paper, which should have been welcomed instead of being complained about. So began a new regime and after a while everyone agreed that things were much better than they used to be. We also move into better offices.
Gordon Arkley dabbled in amateur dramatics and had contacts with the film studios at Pinewood. One day he took me across there for lunch and introduced me to Glynis Johns and Robert Newton as well as a couple of other famous film stars whose names escape me. After a very 'boozy' lunch, we went across to the film-set and watched for a couple of hours. I cannot recall which film it was but it became one of the big hits of the 1950's. It was a most interesting experience.
During the year, I managed to get in a few hours flying from White Waltham airfield, mostly in Ansons, to visit other Flying Training Command units (to the Isle of Man and also to Northern Ireland). I also flew in a Procter, a Prentice and a Chipmunk.
It was just before Christmas, when I was sitting at my office desk, busy painting the air traffic control vehicle with black and white squares for the model airfield that I was making for Terry's Xmas present, when the Air Officer Commanding (Sir Arthur Pendred) chose to make his inspection (without notice) of the Examination Board's offices. I really thought I was in for big trouble for doing private work in duty time. When asked what I was doing, I decided to say precisely what, and why I was doing it! He did not blink an eyelid, had a good look at the model and then, as he turned for the door, wished me a happy Christmas and hoped that I managed to get it all finished in time!! Needless to say I put it all away quickly and tried to get on with some 'proper work'. I still expected that there would be repercussions but there never were. Some 5 year later (16/7/58), I was stationed at Pershore and I was flying with Group Captain Innes-Crump to a meeting at West Malling. When we entered the Bar in the Mess to get a drink before lunch, there was a large group in the corner surrounding a very senior officer – It was Sir Arthur! I was never more surprised in my life when he broke off talking to the others and called across to me to come and join his party. He greeted me as though I was a long lost friend and, remembering my name, ordered drinks for me and the Group Captain before asking me, with a smile on his face, if I ever managed to get [italics] that [/italics] Xmas present finished in time!! A marvellous man.
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1954
Started building model aircraft again and flew them in the fields at the back of the bungalow. After losing a glider, I made a Hawker Hunter powered by a 'jet' engine (in fact it was a pellet that had to be lit!) and Terry became quite upset when it got lodged up a tree. He started school in Woodley and has been back there recently to retrace his steps.
Bob Hunter, a Canadian who had been on the same course as me at Shawbury, was also based at Reading and he was always popping round to our place. He and his wife Marg are pictured, in the photo album, with us at the New Years Eve Party.
Having sat and worried about what happened last Xmas, was quite surprised to be offered, in February, a job on the Air Staff as Command Search & Rescue Officer & also to look after the Command Film Library. Apparently there was considerable opposition from some of the others working there (mostly Wing Commanders and above) as normally only 'Permanent Commission' officers were offered this sort of post. However my new boss, Wing Commander Bagott, made it quite clear that someone 'on high' had approved my appointment and immediately suggested that I apply for a permanent commission (my original commission was 'Short Service' – i.e.: 8 years). When I pointed out that I had already applied and been turned down and was reluctant to go through it all again, he offered to have the necessary forms filled in and all I needed do was sign them! By the end of the day this was done, and two days later I was called away from my office to attend an Assessment Board. I was totally unprepared for this but was assured that I did not need to go and get 'dressed up' and 'not to worry'! The interview took about 2 minutes and was a complete farce – we just passed pleasantries! Within a few minutes I was told that, of the 13 candidates having been seen, I was the only one to be recommended. After a few days I was called for another interview with an AVM Allison who carried out a proper 'grilling' but he was very pleasant about it and made it quite plain that it was just a formality.
Shortly afterwards I was offered a brand new Married Quarter and we then moved into 15 Salmond Road, Whitley Wood – right opposite the Baggots! The appointment to a Permanent Commission was not confirmed until 25th August and backdated to 1st June 1954. (I had already been informed verbally quite early on).
[certificate]
In my new job I did a fair bit of visiting and on one occasion, whilst flying with Group Captain Alvey stopping off a [sic] various Units, I had a further brief meeting with Mac (my 'skipper' on Bomber Command). Due to my interest in model making I also got involved in the RAF Model Aircraft competitions and was 'asked' to act as a Judge on a couple of them (see pictures in album).
Here I was introduced to my first flight in a jet aircraft – the Canberra. I have to say that I did not particularly enjoy it (I got air-sick).
My work was very absorbing and most of the dissenters soon began to accept me. I enjoyed mixing with quite senior officers and only found it difficult to get on with some of the 'upward pushing' more junior people. We became very friendly with our next-door neighbours – The Lacey's and we all got on very well together. Christine had started school here and most of the children from 'The Patch' went there as well.
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1955
Having got nicely settled down in our Married Quarter I was somewhat disappointed to receive a Posting Notice in early January. However, I was told that it was supposed to be a prestige posting and about two weeks later I left Reading in a heavy snow blizzard on my way to the Royal Radar Establishment Flying Unit at RAF DEFFORD, near Worcester.
The Mess was deserted when I arrived in the gloom of a Sunday evening, with the snow still pelting down. Later, one or two others came in for a drink and were so friendly that I began to feel a little less dejected than I had been during the journey there. So began almost 5 years of a marvellous posting.
Initially, I lived in the Mess and immediately started flying in various aircraft, on trials of equipment designed by the 'boffins' at the Royal Radar Establishment at Malvern. My first flight was in Hastings TG503 piloted by 'Bert' Welvaert, aged 36, who claimed to be 'the youngest grandfather in the Air Force'. I next met up with Bert at the Berlin Airlift 50th Anniversary in May 1999
[photograph]
Bert Welvaert and myself standing if [sic] front of Hastings TG503’.
This aircraft is now on permanent display at the Allied Museum in Berlin.
I flew in the following types (in no particular order) during my stay on the unit (over 1000 hours all told):
Hastings
Lincoln
Shackleton
Dakota
Varsity
Ashton
Wayfarer
Marathon
Hermes
Devon
Valetta
Meteor
Canberra
Vampire
Whirlwind (Helicopter)
Fairly early on, I quite often flew with a pilot called Flt. Lt. Chase in a Hastings and around March time was scheduled to fly with him again on a trip to Farnborough. One of the other navigators, a Canadian (whose name I cannot remember), asked me to swap with him as he needed only a couple more hours to make up his first '1,000 hrs' before he left the unit to return to Canada. I agreed to do so just to do him a favour, but in the event I did myself a very special one as the aircraft crashed on take off from Farnborough, killing the navigator and severely injuring the flight engineer. The pilot and signaller were less severely injured and the two passengers in the back escaped with only minor injuries. When the news was first
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received, many of us were briefed to quickly break the news to the various wives and families. I was allocated the flight engineer's wife, wishing like mad that I had been able to go to the signaller's instead. However, as it turned out I was lucky again, as the signaller, whose wife had been told that he was "OK and not too badly hurt", had a relapse the following day and died from 'secondary shock'. On the other hand, John Mills the flight engineer, who had not been expected to live, remained in a coma for nearly a month and suddenly woke up one morning demanding to be fed as he was [italics] starving [/italics]! Although he finished up with a plate in his head, he actually returned to flying about six months later. The pilot recovered enough to return to flying but was posted away quite quickly when it was established that he had attempted to take off with the flying control locks still in place (i.e. [underlined] Pilot Error [/underlined])!
It is worth pointing out however, that the Hastings had mechanical locks of a new type instead of the old wooden blocks that fitted on the outside and had to be removed before getting into the aircraft. With the new method there was a lever in the cockpit that had to be actuated to release the locks. If the lever was operated whilst the aircraft had airflow over the wings etc., it did not release the locks as it was designed to do. As a result of this accident a modification was introduced to rectify the fault.
The funeral of the navigator took place in the local church in Pershore and I was a Pall Bearer for the funeral of the signaller in Scarborough. Once these funerals were out of the way, life gradually got back to normal.
After a short while I managed to find a 'hiring' – a large detached house in a very nice spot – 'Severn Croft', Bevere, in Worcester – and moved the family away from Reading. We have lots of expensive furniture, curtains etc., which has to be put away in store for safety. Started to make friends with the 'Lentons & Skeers' for Terry & Christine.
Peter was born in December and a new house is started in the field next to us. I did not fly at all this month and managed a fair bit of time off.
Pictures of us at the Summer Ball are in the photo-album.
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1956
The new Flight Commander (the unit split into two flights – 'A' Flight for piston engined & 'B' for jet aircraft), Sqn Ldr Tebbutt, shared an interest in model making and he started building a model boat whilst I stick to aircraft. I made a Tiger Moth, which flew well, and we used the airfield at weekends. Other aircraft that I made seemed to crash too easily and the Radar servicing Manager suggested that I use radio control. He offered to help me build it but I decided to put it into a model boat rather than aircraft as this was much safer.
Early in the year I got myself elected Mess Secretary, which slowed down the flying somewhat – sometimes to only 10-12 hours each month.
Being Mess Secretary became an almost full time job and, mixed in with developing a new radio control system to put into the destroyer that I built, my time was fully occupied and very rewarding. Two major Mess functions during the year and, as this was such a small Unit, I found myself suggesting, designing and constructing all the decorations for both of them. Fortunately the civilian component of the Unit made sure that I was able to get marvellous procurement & engineering assistance.
Peter was 1 year old just before the Christmas Ball and lots of locals attended his party.
1957
Started flying helicopters and was allowed to take the controls on odd occasions, eventually having some 'formal' instruction. I was told that fixed wing pilots are somewhat difficult to convert whereas other aircrew categories with good 'air sense' usually learn quite quickly. After about 10 hours dual I became reasonably competent and passed the 'brick wall' of it being in charge of you, to you being in charge of it!!
[photograph]
RRFU Defford, 1957
Group Captain Innes-Crump took me under his wing and nominated me as his navigator. We did various trips to conferences etc. and eventually he let me do most of the flying and some take-offs & landings (in a Devon). Many of the pilots started to let me fly the aircraft from the right-hand seat and eventually I even landed a Hastings all on my own (or at least I thought I did).
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[photograph]
Lincoln at zero feet!
Flying with Group Captain Innes-Crump (OC, RRFU Pershore)
At end of October the Unit moved from Defford to Pershore and took on a somewhat more formal atmosphere, which was not to everyone's liking.
10th December 1957, Peter's 2nd birthday and disaster on the Unit. One of 'B' Flight jet aircraft went missing and presumed crashed in the hills over North Wales. I had to visit the wife of one of crew members to warn her that her husband 'would be late home'. A dreadful story to delay the almost inevitable. As a result I was also 'late home' for the Birthday Party and could not say why – I was not very popular!!
Next day, along with others, flew a 4-hour sortie to see if we could find the crash site. Although flying very low ourselves amongst the treacherous hills, we could not find anything. Just before we were due to leave the area, we received a message that Mountain Rescue team had found the site and both crew had been killed. It was some way from where we had been looking near 'Drum Hill'. Another funeral to attend, and just before Christmas too. However see picture in album of us at Xmas Ball a few days later!
1958
Lots of flying each month this year mostly in:
Hastings
Varsity
Devon
Valetta
July – see item, 5th paragraph of 1953 re. Sir Arthur Pendred. Also see article & photos in 'Air Clues'.
The atmosphere at Pershore was not the same as at Defford. However, we all became very settled in at Bevere and friendly with neighbours – Lentons around corner, the Hucksters at the back and the next-door families on both sides. – A very pleasant year.
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1959
At beginning of year got in regular flying each month. Flew in a Meteor for the first time with Wing Commander Lawrence as pilot. Also did some more helicopter piloting but had become quite stale after so long.
April was particularly busy, flying, but after the first few days in June got caught for admin work.
On 10th July I was handed a signal informing me along with others (but not Flt. Lt. Smith mentioned in signal – see photo-album), that passage was booked on the FLANDRE, sailing 17th July, to attend a training course on the 'Thor Missile' in the USA. Mad panic to get ready and needed to get a Dinner Jacket for the voyage and other items at a time when I was particularly low on funds. Pam was not very happy with the idea of me being away for so long and having to look after everything on her own. Fortunately the neighbours at Bevere were all very supportive.
Travelled First Class by train from Worcester via London where we were joined by another group of RAF but who considered themselves very superior and tried to keep apart from us as much as they could. The Flandre was a French passenger liner of some 15,000 tons and the First Class passengers (mostly American – and us of course!) were extremely well looked after. After a very enlightening voyage and a charter flight to TUCSON Arizona, we started our training on Thor missiles at Davis Monathon AFB. Our group consisted of: self; Flt. Lt. Colin Reeve; Flt.Lt. Walker; Flt. Lt. Evans & Flg. Off. Nancarrow, together with Americans: Captains Jim Hadsell; Mel Schaffer & Carl Heintz. After an intensive 'ground' training period there, we travelled by car with Jimmy Hadsell via the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam to Vandenberg AFB California.
[photograph]
Davis Monathon AFB, Tucson Arizona
Standing (in uniform), L-R: Flight Lieutenants John Evans, Jeff Walker, Colin Reeve, Myself
Below: USAF Captains Jim Hadsell and Mell Schaffer, Flying Officer Frank Nancarrow,, Captain Carl Heintz
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When the training had finished, another charter flight back to New York and thence on the SS America back to Southampton, where I was met by the family, who had been driven there by Mr Lenton.
Posted to No. 82 Squadron SHEPHERDS GROVE as Launch Control Officer in December.
[photograph]
RAF Thor Launch, July 1959
Vandenberg AFB, California
1960
Found a bungalow in Diss – about 10 miles from Shepherds Grove – to take on as a 'Hiring'. We moved from 'Severn Croft' on a very bleak and foggy day. It was very nostalgic as we had started to 'put down roots' in Worcester and very difficult as far as Schools were concerned. The journey was very hazardous as the car was loaded down with all the last minute items – Including the animals. At one point near Diss we finished up in a field because the fog was so thick – but eventually got to Diss about 4 hours later than planned.
I had not been in the Bungalow for long and was at home one lunchtime, when a Victor en-route for Honington, passed overhead quite low making a horrible roaring noise. We all rushed outside to see the aircraft on fire and will the crew to eject (we did not know at this time that only the pilots had ejection seats). Eventually, parachutes were seen to open but the aircraft dived into the ground about 2 miles away. As I was in uniform, I decide to drive towards the crash sight [sic] to see if I could help – but before I could get within a mile of it I was held up by masses of sightseers crowding the narrow lanes. In the end I gave up and returned home. It transpired that 2 of the crew had been killed – one of them opening his 'chute too late and the other (one of the pilots) getting out too late.
Spent the whole of the year on shift covering 365 days a year and having responsibility for 3 Thor nuclear missiles every time I was on shift.
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1961
Was selected to join the Feltwell Thor Missile Training Flight after categorisation by Bomber Command. [italics] Second US trip, this time to Vandenberg AFB, California for THOR test firing] [/italics]
[photograph]
82 Squadron crew. With RAF THOR Missile, Vandenberg AFB
1962
[inserted] Fl/L Moore [/inserted]
Headquarters Bomber Command,
Royal Air Force,
High Wycombe,
Bucks.
[underlined] Order of the Day [/underlined]
[underlined] To all Thor Squadrons and Stations [/underlined]
The decision to phase out the Thor Force of Bomber Command in no way detracts from the vital role which the force played in the past, and the significant part it will continue to play in future, until the very last missile is withdrawn.
Thor was the first strategic missile system operational in the West. At a time when the threat to this country came almost entirely from manned aircraft, you were the most formidable part of the defence of the United Kingdom, and the Western Alliance.
You in the Thor force have maintained a constant vigil day and night for almost four years. You have maintained a higher state of readiness in peacetime than has ever been achieved before in the history of the Armed Forces of the Crown. I am well aware of the sacrifices, so willingly accepted, that this constant readiness has imposed on the officers and airmen of the force.
I am content that History will recognise your devoted service in the cause of peace. I know that I can rely on you for the same devotion during the rundown phase, as you have shown since the birth of the force in 1958.
[signature]
(K. B.E. CROSS)
Air Marshal.
Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief.
Bomber Command
2nd August, 1962.
Announcing the rundown of Britain's THOR missile defence programme
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1963
A very severe winter and had great difficulty travelling back and forth. On the way to Shepherds Grove, while driving along a cutting through a snowdrift, a car coming the other way crashed into me. Although my car was damaged, after temporary repairs I managed to drive it back to Diss and put it in to garage for proper repair. In the meantime, I used the Vespa scooter to get to the Units to do my categorisations. Strange, but everyone seemed to know I was coming, so the grapevine seemed to be working overtime.
All the pipes froze up at 102 Victoria Road, including the underground ones from the mains. Had to get water from our next-door neighbours, who remained unaffected. The Council eventually cleared the mains by passing an electric current in some way.
In July I was informed that [underlined] [italics] my services were no longer required by the RAF [/italics] [/underlined] and that I was to have a 'Last Tour Posting' somewhere nearby. I was shattered by this news as I had very high ratings in my job and good yearly assessments. I appealed to the Group Captain who was as much astounded as I was, particularly as other officers were being kept on whom he would 'court martial' given half a chance. Eventually he informed me that somewhere, someone with 'influence' didn't like me, and I must have upset whoever it was. So no reprieve!
Middle of July, I was posted to 721 Mobile Signals Unit based at Methwold as Commanding Officer – very strange! I was met with the results of a drunken brawl amongst members of the Unit under the previous CO and it took all of my energy and some very smooth talking to get it sorted out. Managed to restore unit pride with only two people being posted away and reprimands for a couple of others. It turned into a happy posting once I got everyone on my side. Managed to get damage fixed without any further problems.
The unit acted as a bomb plot for the "V" Force and had the call sign 'BRANTUB'. Unfortunately in October the unit was ordered to move to Lindholme. So much for it being a 'Last Tour Posting' [underlined] [italics] near [/italics] [/underlined] present residence.
1964
The Lindholme posting was not as bad as expected. Fell ill with flu just as move took place and when I finally drove up there from Diss I found the Unit on an isolated site, well away from the rest of the Station (see photos in 'Nostalgia' album). Everything was in good order and working well, all thanks to the good spirit now on the unit and a Warrant Officer who worked wonders to get it going. I now had an assistant, Pilot Officer Frank Moss, who was a navigator on Vulcans. Since we were acting as a "Bomb Plot" for the "V" Force, I think the idea was for him to persuade me to give good scores despite some of the dismal results they had been getting previously!
Made a number of suggestions for improving our lot on the Station and moral was very high. Managed to get us out of AOC's inspection and this also went down well. On the operational side I was able to invent a means of our not having to listen to the sound put out to simulate "Blue Steel" bombing. This was achieved by converting the sound signal into a visual meter display so that we could watch rather than having to listen for 10 minutes each run. Everyone at Bomber Command were surprised that nobody had thought of this before.
After we had settled in and were given a good result from the Bomber Command Inspection Team, I managed to arrange our shifts so that I could get away for longer periods. Finally, at the end of October, I was given a firm retirement date. I was given a very emotional farewell from the Unit and, although the practice was frowned upon in higher circles, I was given an inscribed watch as a going away present from all the members of the Unit (some 26 people excluding myself).
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From Lindholme I was finally posted to Honington to begin formalities to leave the Air Force. I only spent a few days there, handing in Kit and obtaining all the necessary clearances. On 19th November I drove away from Honington having finally 'retired'. I shall always remember it being rather like a dream but I do recall listening on the car radio to a program featuring Pam's cousin, Christopher Gable, who was leaving the Royal Ballet to take up an acting career (Christopher's last performance with the Royal Ballet was in 1965. He died in 1998).
The break was so great that I was hardly able to make any plans for the future.
Right: The final farewell
[Ministry of Defence Crest]
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
MAIN BUILDING, WHITEHALL, LONDON, S.W.1.
TELEPHONE WHITEHALL [indecipherable number]
29th October 1964
Dear Flt. Lt. Moore
The Secretary of State for Defence has it in command from Her Majesty The Queen to convey to you on leaving the Active List of the Royal Air Force her thanks for your long and valuable services.
May I take this opportunity of wishing you all good fortune in the future.
[signature]
Flight Lieutenant D. Moore
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1965
I managed to get a job with Marconi at Southend working with the modifications team and liaison with the RAF! It was very poorly paid but it was the best I could do under the circumstances.
We decided to move away from Diss and chose Chelmsford as the best place to settle down. It was the nearest into London that I wanted to go and the furthest out that Pam wanted to be. We started looking around and were particularly interested in some new houses being built on a development on the edge of town on Springfield road. They were more than I could really afford and the one we liked was suddenly sold to someone else. We needed to move quite quickly and when we saw a chalet bungalow, which Pam seemed to like, we decided to set the wheels in motion to buy it. No sooner had we paid a deposit than one of the new ones came back on the market, even before the walls had been built, so we decided to buy that one instead. I managed to commute half of my £500 a year RAF pension and the £250 translated into a cash sum of nearly £6,000, which only left a small mortgage requirement. The purchase proceeded reasonably smoothly and we finally moved into 2 Llewellyn Close on 9th April 1965. Moving into a newly built house was not such a good idea and all sorts of snags were encountered.
Only earning a pittance and very unhappy with what was expected of me, I started to look around again for another job.
1966
Got a job as Training Officer with Littlewoods operating out of Basildon, visiting all their stores in the south of England. Found it very difficult as all the lady supervisors were very suspicious of me and not at all co-operative. Was suddenly called up to Liverpool and made redundant with no reason given.
1967
Spent the whole year job hunting and at last got a job with John Zinc just outside St. Albans.
1968
21/10/68 – 13/12/68. Completed a Training Officer course (construction Industry) in Slough.
Finally got a reasonable job with Balfour Beatty in Bread St. London but had to leave after they moved to Croydon.
1970
At last I got a decent job! Started with Powell Duffryn, Great Tower St. London on 19th January but made redundant when they de-centralised
1971
After spending most of the year job hunting I finally started working for Letchworth and District Printers Group Training Scheme on 1st December
44
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1972
After travelling the 43 miles back and forth to Letchworth every day and finding it very tiring, we decided to look around for housing in Letchworth. I made up my mind that I wanted to be as near to work as possible and not have to travel any distance at all. Unfortunately this was a period of 'gazumping' and although our offer on the nice house we found in Cloisters Road and had been accepted, suddenly they had another buyer prepared to offer more. Reluctantly we bid for our present house and once again the offer was accepted. At the time of the year it looked much better than it actually was and, to make things worse, the day after swapping contracts the house in Cloisters came back on the market. We had easily sold our Chelmsford house and had completed on that, so we could not afford to change our minds. We finally moved into 116 West View on 15th May 1972.
Having been promised help in re-location by my employers, the Committee that had originally made the offer changed and all the new lot were prepared to give me was £100. I was not very happy about this and made my feelings very plain. But they just shrugged their shoulders.
1973 – 2010 No further entries
[photograph]
Celebrating my 80th Birthday
DM Memoirs (second Edition) Compiled and edited by Terry Moore, October 2010
Appendix and additional photographs – January 2011
Postscript – May 2012
Foreword – July 2012
[italics] The editor accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies [/italics]
45
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Postscript
The funeral service for my father took place at Harewood Park Crematorium, Stevenage, on Thursday 11th November 2010, attended by family, friends, representatives from the XV Squadron Association and colleagues from the North Herts. Branch of the Aircrew Association, of which he was president.
Like most airmen of his generation, Dad had a great affection for the Avro Lancaster, in which he spent many flying hours as navigator in both war time and peace, so it seemed most fitting that his ashes be scattered from the only remaining Lancaster still flying in this country.
[photograph] [photograph]
In May 2011, my wife and I made the ninety-mile trip to RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire where the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight is stationed and left the casket in the care of the Public Relations Manager who was to make the necessary arrangements.
[photograph] [photograph]
Dad took his "last flight" on 29th August 2011 in Avro Lancaster PA474 escorted by the Spitfire and Hurricane of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. His ashes were scattered over North Norfolk, England.
[chart]
BBMF flight schedule for 29/08/2011
Terry Moore, May 2012
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1945 Appendix 1 Operational Sorties – September 1944 – April 1945
[underlined] NO 218 SQUADRON RAF METHWOLD Aircraft Letters "HA" [/underlined]
[underlined] 17/09/1944 [/underlined]Sortie No: 1 (Daylight). Target [underlined] BOULOGNE [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD277 Code "A". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 hours 45 minutes
762 Aircraft – 370 Lancasters; 351 Halifax; 41 Mosquito. Dropped more than 3000 tons of Bombs on German positions around Boulogne in preparation for an attack by Allied troops. The German garrison surrendered soon afterwards.
1 Lancaster & 1 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 23-24/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 2 (Night time). Target [underlined] NEUSS [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD256 Code "J". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 hours 35 Minutes
549 Aircraft – 378 Lancasters; 154 Halifax; 17 Mosquito. Most of the bombing fell in the dock & factory area. A short local report only says that 617 houses & 14 Public Buildings were destroyed and 289 people killed/150 injured.
5 Lancasters & 2 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 26/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 3 (Daylight). Target [underlined] CAP GRIS NEZ [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlare [sic]
Flying Time – 2 Hours 55 Minutes
722 Aircraft – 388 Lancasters, 289 Halifax; 45 Mosquito – 531 aircraft to CAP GRIS NEZ (4 Targets) and 191 aircraft to 3 Targets in CALAIS. Accurate and intense bombing of all targets.
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 28/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 4 (Daylight). Target [underlined] CALAIS [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD277 Code "A". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 Hours 35 Minutes
341 Aircraft – 222 Lancasters; 84 Halifax; 35 Moquito. [sic] Target area covered in cloud but Master Bomber brought the force below cloud to bomb visually. Bombing was accurate.
1 Lancaster Lost
[underlined] 14/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 5 (Daylight). Target [underlined] DUISBURG [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 5 Minutes
This raid was part of a special operation. (See page 601 of Bomber Command Diaries)
1013 Aircraft – 519 Lancasters; 474 Halifax; 20 Mosquito with RAF fighters escorting.
3574 Tons of HE & 820 Tons of incendiary.
13 Lancasters & 1 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 15/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 6 (Night time). Target [underlined] WILHEMSHAVEN [sic] [/underlined]
Aircraft ? Code "C". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours
506 Aircraft – 257 Halifax; 241 Lancasters; 8 Mosquito.
Last of 14 Major raids on Port of Wilhemshaven [sic]. Bomber Command claimed "severe damage caused."
No record of any losses noted.
[underlined] 19/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 7 (Night time). Target [underlined] STUTTGART [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 6 Hours 30 Minutes
565 Lancasters & 18 Mosquito in 2 forces 4 hours apart.
Serious damage caused to central and eastern districts (including BOSCH factory)
6 Lancasters lost.
[underlined] 23/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No. 8 (Night time). Target [underlined] ESSEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 5 Minutes
1055 Aircraft – 561 Lancasters; 463 Halifax & 31 Mosquito. This was the heaviest raid on Essen so far in the war and the number of aircraft also the greatest number on any target. (These results achieved [underlined] without [/underlined] the Lancasters from 5 Group!! 4538 Tons of Bombs dropped.
[underlined] 29/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 9 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESTKAPELLE (WALCHEREN) [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 Hours 15 Minutes
358 Aircraft – 194 Lancasters; 128 Halifax & 36 Mosquito.
11 different ground positions attacked. Visibility was good and results were accurate.
1 Lancaster lost.
47
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[underlined] 04/11/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 10 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SOLINGEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 30 Minutes
176 Lancasters of 3 Group. The raid was not considered successful as bombing scattered.
4 Lancasters lost
Note: Aircraft NF934 Code "G" went "missing" on 12/12/1944
Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane promoted to Wing Commander and posted as Officer Commanding No: XV Squadron RAF Mildenhall in mid-November and sends aircraft to fetch whole crew from Methwold
[underlined] NO: XV SQUADRON RAF MILDENHALL Aircraft letters "LS" [/underlined]
[underlined] 28/11/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 11 (Night time). Target [underlined] NEUSS (DUSSELDORF) [/underlined]
Aircraft – HK 695 Code "V". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 40 Minutes
145 Lancasters of 3 Group & 8 of 1 Group. GH Bombing attack. Modest damage.
No losses.
[underlined] 05/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 12 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SCHWAMMENAUEL DAM [/underlined]
Aircraft – ME 844 Code "C. Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 40 Minutes
MASTER BOMBER – 56 Lancasters of 3 Group attempt to "Blow up" this Dam on river ROER to help American Army. Target covered in cloud. Only 2 aircraft bombed. No losses.
[underlined] 06/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 13 (Night time) Target [underlined] LEUNA MERSEBURG [/underlined] (Near LEIPZIG)
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K" Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 20 Minutes
475 Lancasters bombed Oil Target in Eastern Germany, 500 miles from UK. Cloud cover but considerable damage to the synthetic oil plant. 5 aircraft lost
[underlined] 08/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 14 (Daylight). Target [underlined] DUISBURG [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K". Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 20 Minutes
163 Lancasters of 3 Group bombed on GH through cloud on railway yards. Good results.
No losses.
[underlined] 14/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 15 (Night time). Target [underlined] MINING KATTEGAT [/underlined] (off KULLEN POINT)
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K". Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours (Landed LOSSIEMOUTH)
30 Lancasters & 9 Halifax. Mines accurately laid. (see H2S photo) Diverted to Lossiemouth on return. No losses.
[underlined] 28/12//1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 16 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined] (GREMBERG)
Aircraft – HK 693 Code "B". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 50 Minutes
167 Lancasters of 3 Group. Marshalling yards. Accurate bombing. No losses
[underlined] 01/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 17 (Night time). Target [underlined] VOHWINKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 5 Minutes
146 Lancasters of 3 Group. Successful attack on railway yards. 1 aircraft lost
[underlined] 03/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 18 (Daytime). Target [underlined] DORTMUND [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 45 Minutes
99 Lancasters of 3 group. GH attacks through cloud on Coking plant (HANSA). Accurate bombing. 1 aircraft lost.
[underlined] 07-08/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 19 (Night time). Target [underlined] MUNICH [/underlined]
Aircraft – HK 618 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 45 Minutes
645 Lancasters from 1,3, 5, 6 & 8 Groups – Very successful raid causing severe damage (see Terry's book – "Fliegeralarm" – Luftangriffe auf München 1940-1945)
11 aircraft lost and 4 crash in France
[underlined] 13/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 20 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SAARBRUCKENt [/underlined][sic]
Aircraft – ME 849 Code "L". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 20 Minutes
158 Lancasters of 3 Group attack Railway yards. Accurate but some overshooting
Divert to Predannack on return because of bad weather at base.
1 Aircraft lost
48
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[underlined] 16-17/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 21 (Night time). Target [underlined] WANNE EICKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 5 Minutes
138 Lancasters of 3 Group attack Benzol plant. 1 Aircraft lost
[underlined] 23/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 22 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined] (GREMBERG)
Aircraft – PD 234 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 55 Minutes
153 Lancasters from 3 Group attack Railway Yards. Good Visibility – Results variable
3 aircraft lost and 1 crashed in France
[underlined] 09/02/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 23 (Night time). Target [underlined] HOHENBUDBERG (DUISBERG KREFELD) [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD 234 Code "E". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 10 Minutes
151 Lancasters from 3 Group attack Railway Yards. 2 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 19/02/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 24 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 444 Code "Y". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 15 Minutes
168 Lancasters from 3 Group. Good attack with best results around railway area
Leading Aircraft for whole of 3 Group. (I navigated and everyone else followed me!)
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 02/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 25 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 30 Minutes
858 Aircraft – 155 Lancasters from 3 Group. Only 15 aircraft from 3 Group bombed because of GH failure. All other bombing highly destructive. Cologne captured by the Americans 4 days later. 6 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 04/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 26 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WANNE EINCKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 55 Minutes
128 Lancasters from 3 Group bombed on GH. No losses.
[underlined] 05/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 27 (Daylight). Target [underlined] GELSENKIRCHEN [/underlines]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 35 Minutes
170 Lancasters from 3 Group. Leading Aircraft for whole of 3 Group.
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 11/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 28 (Daylight). Target [underlined] ESSEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 5 Minutes
1079 Aircraft – 750 Lancasters. Attack accurate and Essen paralysed.
Leading aircraft for 32 Base. 3 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 22/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 29 (Daylight). Target [underlined] BOCHULT [/underlined]
Aircraft – PA 235 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 15 Minutes
100 Lancasters from 3 Group. Leading aircraft for Squadron. Town seen to be on fire.
No losses
[underlined] 23/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 30 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – PA 235 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 35 Minutes
Special GH attack to support Rhine crossing. 80 Lancasters from 3 Group.
Signal from General Eisenhower congratulating the crews concerned on their very accurate bombing.
[underlined] 29/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 31 (Daylight). Target [underlined] HALLENDORF [/underlined] (SALZGITTER)
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 5 Minutes
130 Lancasters from 3 Group. Attack on Benzol plant using GH. Leading aircraft for Squadron.
No losses
[underlined] 9-10/04/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 32 (Night time). Target [underlined] KIEL BAY [/underlined] – MINING
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 10 Minutes
70 Lancasters. No loss on Mining but 4 lost on main raid on Kiel (Very accurate - Pocket Battleship Admiral Scheer hit and capsized. Admiral Hipper Emden badly damaged.)
49
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[underlined] 14//04/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 33 (Night time). Target [underlined] POTSDAM [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 8 Hours 35 Minutes
500 Lancasters. Attack successful and severe damage caused
1 Lancaster lost to night fighter.
Tour completed because the tour requirement was reduced from 40 to 30 whilst we were over Potsdam.
References Air 27 1352 (218 Sqn)
Air 27 204 & 205 (XV Sqn)
[photograph]
End of Tour, Mildenhall, April 1945
Lancaster "H" Howe, NG538
L-R: P/O Johnny Forster (flight engineer), Flt Sgt Jimmy Bourke (mid-upper gunner),
Ft Sgt 'Nobby' Clarke (rear gunner), Sqn Ldr Pat "Tojo" Percy (pilot), Flt Sgt Dennis "Napper" Evans (wireless op.)
F/O Tom Butler (bomb aimer), F/O Dennis Moore (navigator)
[photograph)
End of Tour, Mildenhall, April 1945
Lancaster "H" Howe, NG538
Squadron Leader Percy & Crew with ground crew
50
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1945 Appendix II
[underlined] Lancaster NG 358 Mark B1. XV Squadron (15) Coded LS-H [/underlined]
This aircraft was built by Armstrong Whitworth at their Baginton factory and was one of 400 delivered to the RAF between July 1944 & February 1945. The previous LS-H was HK 648 and NG 358 first appeared on the squadron in Mid-December 1944. It was finally 'Struck off charge' on 19/10/1945
[photograph]
Dates actually flown in this aircraft:
30/12/1944 Day 1450 'GH' Bombing Exercise
1-2/01/1945 Night 1610 6.05 VOHWINKEL 146 a/c, 3 missing
03/01/1945 Day 1250 4.45 DORTMUND 50 a/c
16-17/01/1945 Night 2307 5.05 WANNE EINCKEL 138 a/c, 1 missing
27/01/1945 Day 1005 Air Test
02/03/1945 Day 1200 5.30 KÖLN Led 32 BASE, 531 a/c, 6 missing
04/03/1945 Day 0946 4.45 WANNE EINCKEL 128 a/c
05/03/1945 Day 0940 5.35 GELSENKIRCHEN Led 3 Group, 170 a/c, 1 missing
11/03/1945 Day 1200 6.05 ESSEN Led 32 BASE, 750 a/c, 3 missing
29/03/1945 Day 1230 7.05 HALLENDORF Led SQUADRON, 130 a/c
09-10/04/1945 Night 2000 6.10 KIEL BAY MINING 70 a/c
14-15/04/1945 Night 1825 8.55 BERLIN (POTSDAM) 500 a/c, 2 missing
The crew of 'H' – 'HOWE' on the above flights was:
Pilot Squadron Leader Pat Percy
Navigator Flying Officer Dennis Moore
Bomb Aimer Flying Officer Tom Butler (Canadian)
F/Engineer Pilot Officer Johnnie Forster
Wireless Op. F/Sgt. Dennis Evans
Mid Upper F/Sgt. Jimmy Bourke
Rear Gunner F/Sgt. Nobby Clarke
Other 'operations' in other aircraft were flown with Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane as Pilot. (see note below)
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[underlined] Explanations: [/underlined]
Bomber Command was split into GROUPS (mainly 3 & 5 Group) – each Group split into 3 BASES and each Base comprised 2 or 3 airfields on which there were usually 2 SQUADRONS. Each Squadron was normally split in two FLIGHTS although sometimes they had three. 3 Group Base were Nos. 31; 32 & 33. 31 Base comprised STRADISHALL & WRATTING COMMON plus one other; 32 Base comprised MILDENHALL, LAKENHEATH & METHWOLD. 33 Base comprised WATERBEACH, WITCHFORD & MEPAL. The other Squadron at MILDENHALL at this time was No 622 (Australian). Each Squadron normally had 24 aircraft and a 'MAXIMUM EFFORT' was achieved when all of them flew on an OPERATION ('op').
All daylight trips were in tight FORMATION and Bombing was done on 'GH' – which was operated by the navigator who actually 'pressed the button'. The Bombing Leaders were distinguished by the double yellow bars on the tailfin/rudder. All others in the flight bombed on the Leader. A limited number of Squadrons & Aircraft in No 3 Group were fitted with this equipment, which was extremely accurate.
Note. Mac (or Nigel, as I now am allowed to call him) lives in a retirement home near Capetown, South Africa. At the Mildenhall register meeting in May 1995 I was told he had died. The following day I was able to contact his son Ian (whom we had 'baby-sat') who is now a Harley Street Consultant and he put paid to this rumour.
Nigel & Margaret visited the UK June 2000 to celebrate their 60th Wedding Anniversary and Pam & I were invited to their Party. Not able to drive at the time so unable to go. Terry offered to pick him up and take him with us to Squadron 85th Birthday celebrations at Lossiemouth. Unfortunately he was not well enough so Terry & I went to Lossiemouth on our own.
1945 Appendix III
[italics] The Operational Sortie which the crew decided had turned me from being a "very Good" Navigator into an "ACE" Navigator. (Their words - not mine!!) [/italics]
An operational order was "posted" quite early in the morning of the 7th January 1945 and the fuel load was 2154 gallons (the maximum) so we all knew that we were in for a long haul. At the pre-flight briefing Munich was announced as the target and we were allocated HK618 "G" (George) with Squadron Leader Percy as pilot. We learned later that 645 aircraft from 1;3;5;6 and 8 Groups loaded with 1 x 4000 pounder (Cookie) and clusters of incendiaries, carried out a very successful bombing raid causing very severe damage. (See photos in Terry's book). A total of 11 aircraft were lost and another 4 crashed in France (nearly 3%, which was quite high at this time).
Getting airborne at 1830, the flight out was quite uneventful from a navigational point of view with 'Gee' working well and covering a good way down into France. Having bombed on a well lit (burning) target, the Alps were now the only visible landmarks and, at the appropriate time, we turned onto a northerly heading based on the wind component calculated on the way down across France. We kept going on this heading, expecting to pick up something to give us a 'fix' but unfortunately nothing was forthcoming, and at the ETA at the French coast I asked if any of the crew could see anything. Nobody else could see through the cloud but the rear gunner (who had a good downward view) finally called to say that we had just passed over a 'Pundit' flashing what turned out to be Manston!! Quickly turning on the IFF (identifying friend not foe) and crossing the Thames estuary, a quick calculation, the message" Maintain heading – ETA base in 17 minutes" was passed to the pilot. EXACTLY 17 minutes later the pilot reported "overhead base – joining circuit. Well done Navigator" Thus ended a 7hour 45 minute flight and the very tired but elated crew gathered in the briefing room to be met, as usual, by the padre dishing out the rum ration for those that wanted it. I was quite happy to have my share while we were being de-briefed, with a crew enthusing over my marvellous navigation (all the way back from the south of France without having to change heading once!!) and then off to the quarters behind the Mess to a well earned sleep.
What was never mentioned to anyone – and the crew in particular – was that, had the heading been just ONE degree to starboard, we would have gone sailing – literally – up the north sea and, because of the cloud cover, not know why we never made it back to base – if we had survived the ditching in the dark and subsequent days adrift in the North Sea – that is!!!
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1945 Appendix IV
[underlined] Dakota Flights (as Navigator) July 1945 – May 1946 [/underlined]
109 OTU Crosby on Eden
08/07/1945 – 23/07/1945 DAY 18.55, NIGHT 7.45
PILOTS: Flt/Lt Mason & Flt/Lt Samuael
Aircraft registrations: FZ609 KG502 KG619 KG658 KG664 KG666
B Flight 1383T/C.U
26/07/1945 – 27/08/1945 DAY 49.55, NIGHT 26.15
PILOTS: P/O Zygnerski & Flt/Lt Herringe
Aircraft registrations: FL652 KG373 KG392 KG638 KG726 KG644 KG649 KG657 KG726
52 Squadron RAF DUM-DUM CALCUTTA
01/12/1945 – 08/05/1946 DAY 345.25, NIGHT 13.50
PILOTS: Mainly F/O Harris but also Flt/Lt Ruddle, F/O Lofting, Flt/Lt Earwalker & F/O MacArthur
Route flying from Calcutta to Bangkok, Saigon (Ho Chi Minh), Hong Kong, sometimes calling into Chittagong, Meiktila, Hmawbi, Rangoon, Canton
Aircraft registrations:
FL507 FL612 KG212 KG502 KG573 KG923
KJ813 KJ814 KJ820 KJ904 KJ963 KK190
KN211 KN219 KN231 KN239 KN240 KN299
KN301 KN308 KN341 KL507 KN534 KN573
KN600 KN604 KN630 KN633 KP211
Total Hours: DAY 413.35 NIGHT 47.10
Appendix 1949
[underlined] "Lancastrian" G – AGWI/1281/TX276/111 [/underlined]
I flew 13 Sorties as Navigator in this Aircraft on the Berlin Airlift.
Registered 28/11/1945 to Ministry of Aircraft Production.
Certificate of Airworthiness No: 7283 24/01/1946.
Delivered to BSAA (British South American Airways) Heathrow 27/01/1946
Named 'Star Land'
Registered to Ministry of Civil Aviation 16/08/1948.
Sold to Flight Refuelling Ltd. 16/01/1949 and Registered to them 18/01/1949.
Allotted Fleet No. 'Tanker 26' and flew [underlined] 226 [/underlined] Sorties on Berlin Airlift
Scrapped at Tarrant Ruston 26/09/1951.
Berlin Airlift
[logo] Berlin Airlift [emblem]
[drawing]
[inserted] TX 276/1281 [/inserted]
AVRO LANCASTRIAN – FLIGHT REFUELLING LTD
47403
On 23 June 1948, the Soviet forces occupying the eastern part of Germany blockaded all rail, road and waterway supply routes from the Allied Western Occupation Zones in Berlin. With less than one month’s supply of food and fuel, the prospects for the two and a half million Berliners looked bleak. Only three severely restricted air routes remained as a lifeline between the besieged city and the western world. The Allies responded immediately with a miracle of logistics – The Berlin Airlift. Codenamed Operation Vittles by the USAF, and Operation Plainfare by the RAF, over a period of 11 months Allied aircraft made thousands of flights into the cramped airspace of Berlin and succeeded in supplying everything the city needed. Every available aircraft from RAF Transport Command was in service, as well as hundreds of USAF aircraft and even civil charter firms were called upon to supplement the effort. The operation became so skilled that the Soviet Command eventually realised that they had failed and on 12 May 1949 the blockade was finally lifted.
Avro Lancastrian G-AGWI represents an aircraft which was originally delivered to British South American Airways (BSAA) at Heathrow in January 1946. The aircraft was registered to the Ministry of Civil Aviation for a short period in 1948 before being sold to Flight Refuelling in January 1949. The aircraft was then allotted fleet no. Tanker 26 and flew 226 sorties on the Berlin Airlift.
[inserted] I FLEW IN 13 OF THEM [/inserted] [diagram]
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Dennis Moore Autobiography
Description
An account of the resource
Dennis Moore's autobiography, compiled and edited by his son, Terry Moore.
Creator
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Dennis Moore
Format
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53 typed sheets
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BMooreDMooreDv1
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Germany--Weeze
England--London
England--Wallington Garden
Netherlands--Zandvoort
England--Croydon
England--Hartland
England--Lynton
England--Salcombe
England--Amersham
England--Newquay
England--Manchester
Scotland--Greenock
United States
New York (State)--New York
Canada
New Brunswick--Moncton
Maine--Portland
New Brunswick--Shediac
New Brunswick--Fredericton
Manitoba
Manitoba--Brandon
Manitoba--Winnipeg
Ontario--Toronto
Ontario--Hamilton
Ontario--London
Alberta--Medicine Hat
England--Harrogate
Scotland--Stranraer
France--Angers
Germany--Neuss
England--Carlisle
England--Morecambe
Pakistan--Karachi
Malta
Egypt--Cairo
Burma--Rangoon
India--Mumbai
China--Guangzhou
China--Hainan Sheng
China--Hong Kong
India--Darjeeling
England--Liverpool
England--Hastings
Kenya--Nairobi
Italy--Verona
Morocco--Marrakech
Northern Ireland--Belfast
Senegal--Dakar
Brazil--Natal
Argentina--Buenos Aires
Turkey--İzmir
Israel
Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander
Greenland
Iceland
Cyprus--Nicosia
Iraq--Baghdad
Bahrain
England--Blandford Forum
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Hamburg
England--Skellow
England--Worcester
England--Scarborough
England--Pershore
Arizona--Tucson
California--Vandenberg Air Force Base
England--Diss
England--Chelmsford
England--Basildon
England--St. Albans
England--Slough
England--Letchworth
England--Stevenage
France--Calais
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Essen
Netherlands--Walcheren
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Munich
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Bocholt
Germany--Salzgitter
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Potsdam
England--Coventry
England--London
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany--Saarbrücken
Québec--Montréal
India--Kolkata
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Vietnam--Ho Chi Minh City
England--Southend-on-Sea
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Italy
France
Arizona
California
Maine
New York (State)
Egypt
Ontario
Québec
New Brunswick
Alberta
Newfoundland and Labrador
Germany
Brazil
Burma
China
Cyprus
India
Iraq
Kenya
Netherlands
Pakistan
Turkey
Great Britain
Vietnam
Senegal
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Berkshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Cumberland
England--Devon
England--Essex
England--Herefordshire
England--Kent
England--Lancashire
England--Norfolk
England--Northumberland
England--Sussex
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
England--Warwickshire
England--London
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
12 OTU
15 Squadron
1653 HCU
218 Squadron
3 Group
5 Group
52 Squadron
6 Group
8 Group
82 Squadron
90 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
arts and crafts
bomb aimer
C-47
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Service Order
entertainment
flight engineer
Gee
ground crew
H2S
Halifax
Hampden
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancastrian
Lincoln
Master Bomber
memorial
mess
Meteor
mine laying
Mosquito
navigator
Nissen hut
Oboe
Operational Training Unit
pilot
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Catterick
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF Farnborough
RAF Feltwell
RAF Honington
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Lindholme
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Shawbury
RAF Shepherds Grove
RAF Stradishall
RAF Thorney Island
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Wigtown
RAF Witchford
RAF Wratting Common
Shackleton
Spitfire
Stirling
Sunderland
Tiger force
Tiger Moth
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
wireless operator
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1401/27314/MMooreD1603117-160524-23.2.jpg
9c8ec05aa4745ec313a45d5939b1e900
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Moore, Dennis
D Moore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-06
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Moore, D
Description
An account of the resource
37 items and two albums.
The collection concerns (1923 - 2010, 1603117, 153623 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, documents, photographs and two albums. He flew operations as a navigator with 218 and 15 Squadrons.
Album one contains photographs of his family and his training in Canada.
Album Two contains photographs of his service in the Far East.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Terrence D Moore and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[underlined] XV SQUADRON LANCASTER NG 358 [/underlined]
Lancaster NG 358 Mark B1 No XV (15) Squadron Coded LS - H
Aircraft built by Armstrong Whitworth at their Baginton Factory and was one of 400 delivered to the RAF between July 1944 & February 1945. The previous LS - H was HK 648 and NG 358 first appeared on the squadron in Mid-December 1944. It was finally 'Struck off charge' on 19/10/1945
Dates actually flown in this Aircraft :
30/12/1944 Day 1450 'GH' Bombing Exercise
1-2/01/1945 Night 1601 6.05 VOHWINKEL 146 a/c 3 missing
03/01/1945 Day 1250 4.45 DORTMUND 50 a/c
16-17/01/1945 Night 2307 5.05 WANNE EINCKEL 138 a/c 1 missing
27/01/1945 Day 1005 Air Test
02/03/1945 Day 1200 5.30 KOLN - Led 32 BASE 531 a/c 6 missing
04/03/1945 Day 0946 4.45 WANNE EINCKEL 128 a/c
05103/1945 Day 0940 5.35 GELSENKIRCHEN - Led 3 GROUP 170 a/c 1 missing
11/03/1945 Day 1200 6.05 ESSEN - Led 32 BASE 750 a/c 3 missing
29/03/1945 Day 1230 7.05 HALLENDORF - Led SQUADRON 130 a/c
09-10/04/1945 Night 2000 6.10 KIEL BAY MINING 70 a/c
14-15/04/1945 Night 1825 8.55 BERLIN (POTSDAM) 500 a/c 2 missing
The crew of 'H' - 'HOWE" on the above flights was:
Pilot Squadron Leader Pat Percy
Navigator Flying Officer Dennis Moore
Bomb Aimer Flying Officer Tom Butler (Canadian)
F/Engineer Pilot Officer Johnnie Forster
Wireless Op. F/Sgt. Dennis Evans
Mid Upper F/sgt Jimmy Bourke
Rear Gunner F/Sgt Nobby Clarke
Explanations:-
Bomber Command split into GROUPS (Mainly 3 & 5 Group) - Each GROUP split into 3 BASES and each BASE comprised 2 or 3 Airfields on which there were usually 2 SQUADRONS. Each Squadron was normally split in two FLIGHTS although sometimes they had three. 3 GROUP BASES were Nos 31;32;33 - 31 BASE comprised STRADISHALL & WRATTING COMMON plus one other; 32 BASE comprised MILDENHALL, LAKENHEATH & METHWOLD. 33 BASE comprised WATERBEACH, WITCHFORD & MEPAL. The other SQUADRON at MILDENHALL at this time was No 622 (Australian) SQUADRON. Each Squadron normally had 24 aircraft and a 'MAXIMUM EFFORT' was achieved when all of them flew on an 'op' (OPERATION)
All daylight trips were in tight FORMATION and Bombing was done on 'GH' -which was operated by the Navigator who actually 'Pressed the button'. The Bombing Leaders were distinguished by the double Yellow Bars on the Tailfin/Rudder.(as in this picture). All others in the flight bombed on the Leader. A limited number of Squadrons & Aircraft in No 3 Group were fitted with this equipment which was extremely accurate,
Other 'OPERATIONS' in other aircraft were flown with Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane as Pilot.
[underlined] Dennis Moore [/underlined]
[underlined] 01/01/1997 [/underlined]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
XV Squadron Lancaster NG358
Description
An account of the resource
The story of a Lancaster, NG358, LS-H. There are details of 12 operations during 1944/5. Dennis details the operations and his crew.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dennis Moore
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1997-01-01
Format
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One printed sheet
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Text. Personal research
Identifier
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MMooreD1603117-160524-23
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Essen
Germany--Bavaria
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Potsdam
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Suffolk
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Peter Bradbury
15 Squadron
3 Group
5 Group
622 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bomb aimer
flight engineer
Gee
Lancaster
navigator
pilot
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Stradishall
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Witchford
RAF Wratting Common
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1066/32271/BPayneGPayneGv1.1.pdf
56a2f0d01bb4921591ab94fc697c80ee
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Payne, Geoff
Geoffrey Albert Payne
G A Payne
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Geoff Payne (b. 1924, 1584931 Royal Air Force) and his memoir. He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 115 and 514 Squadrons.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Geoff Payne and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Payne, G
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AN AIRMAN’S TALE
By Geoff Payne
[514 Squadron Crest]
[115 Squadron Crest]
[RAF Training Command Crest]
[RAF Bomber Command Crest]
[Picture] Artist’s Impression of Bomber Command Memorial in Hyde Park
[page break]
AN AIRMAN’S TALE
By Geoff Payne
Chapter 1
Under Training (U/T)
Chapter 2
Operations RAF Witchford
Chapter 3
Back on Operations RAF Waterbeach
Chapter 4
Grounded
Chapter 5
As Time Goes By
[page break]
Page 1
An Airman’s Tale By Geoff Payne
The Story of His Time in The Royal Air Force
Chapter 1
Under Training (U/T)
Having attended the Aircrew Assessment Board at Viceroy Close in Birmingham, I passed for aircrew training, given my RAF service number and told to return to work and await my call up documents. This was in August 1942 I was seventeen and a half at that time, an Air Cadet and eager to join the service of my choice. Time seemed to drag over the next few months, air raids had virtually ceased, although fire watching duties at my factory were still a priority and was able to pick up five shillings per night doing this chore, a useful supplement to my apprenticeship wages.
The end of March 1943, my travel documents arrived, together with information that I was to report to the Air Crew Reception Centre (ACRC) at Lords Cricket ground, St John’s Wood, London.
A month later, my family and I stood on platform three at New Street Station awaiting the early train to London, fortunately, a trainee school teacher from my school was also going to ACRC so it was nice to have his company. This was the first time I had been away from home by myself and looked forward to the new experience.
London Euston station was all bustle, full of service personnel manoeuvring around the station looking for directions, we eventually got to the tube station and made our way to St Johns Wood and Lords Cricket ground. What a fascinating experience travelling on these tube trains and, from information gathered, all service personnel could travel anywhere by tube, free of charge. Booking in, we were given a pack of sandwiches, told to hang about for an hour so, spending our time, inspecting the wicket, gazing at the pictures of past players in Lords Taveners and in general, soaking in the atmosphere of the home of cricket.
About fifty of us were assembled and given a general talk on what was to happen during the next hour or so and, told to memorise our service number and to mark every piece of our service clothing and equipment when it was issued.
We were then marched into a hall and ordered to stand behind the gym benches that lined the hall and ordered to strip, including socks, this inspection was known in the services as a FFI (free from infection) then two M/O,s [sic] walked down the lines of naked men checking fingers, toes and nether regions. Modesty went out of the window that afternoon.
When clothed, we marched in single file to the stores where we were issued our uniform and kit then assembled outside the hall to board a service bus that took us to our billet, a set of high rise luxury flats facing Regents Park and the Grand Canal, our block was Stoneleigh Court. All the civilian occupants had been decanted, six airmen were allocated to a room. Quite cosy under the circumstances.
After settling in, we assembled in the main road with our enamelled mug, knife fork and spoon (irons) ready to march to our mess, not knowing at the time, we were to be fed in the London Zoo canteen.
Later that evening our time was spent sprucing up our “best blue”, trying to get a shine on our boots, parcelling up our civilian clothes and in general, just getting sorted
[page break]
Page 2
out ready for our first parade in the morning.
The following morning, we deposited our “civies” [sic] to be posted home, after breakfast we paraded in the main road at eight o’clock, inspected by a sergeant, then marched off to the medical centre for our inoculations and whatever. The RAF medical centre, Abbey Lodge was also a high rise block of luxury flats, half a mile away from our billet, which also doubled as a RAF hospital and surrounded by a fence of black architectural iron work. We were organised in a single file that stretched alongside this fence. here we waited for some time before the file began to move along slowly, up stairs into one room where an orderly drew an armful of blood, up more stairs and into another room, a scratch on the arm for small pox, injections for tetanus and whatever, so it went on until finally we emerged into a courtyard to the rumble of expletives. Not finished yet, now for night vision testing which took over an hour to complete before being marched back to our billet and lunch at the zoo.
During the first week at ACRC the air raid alarm sounded and our group were woken up to go to Abbey Lodge.
As we set out the anti aircraft batteries in Regents Park began to open up and falling shrapnel began to scream on its way down, thankful for our tin hats on that occasion. Arriving at the hospital, the lifts were off so we had to manhandle the bed patients down the stairs on stretchers into the car park situated beneath the block. this was by no means an easy task negotiating ones way down the stair wells, manoeuvring around the sharp corners. The raid continued intermittently for three hours before we could take these patients back to their wards then began a slow walk back to Stoneleigh Court for a well earned rest.
Most of the remaining time at ACRC was taken up with rifle drill, physical training and marching everywhere, however, we had plenty of leisure time to take in the London sights, thankful for the free transport on offer.
One amazing coincidence was meeting up with my cousin Jack Stone whilst wandering around London Zoo.
I knew he had enlisted in the RAF as a boy and trained as an armourer, surprisingly, he was also wearing a white flash in his forage cap, the sign of an aircrew cadet. He had re-mustered and was going forward for air gunner training the same as me, sadly that was the last time I saw him, he was lost on his second tour of operations later in the war. His name is recorded on the walls of The Runnymede Air Force Memorial as having no known grave.
Finally, after four weeks of hard training and feeling fit, we received orders to move as a group to ITW (Initial Training Wing) wherever. Destinations were never broadcast because of security, although we knew the next port of call was Kings Cross Station.
14 ITW RAF Bridlington
Arrived at Kings Cross in full marching order, back pack, side pack, water bottle and kit bag plus a pack of sandwiches to sustain us on our journey. A reasonable journey up to York, then changed over to a non corridor train for the final leg of the trip to the seaside resort of Bridlington. Here we were met by transport which took us into the town to be dropped off in a street of vacated terraced houses. Ten cadets, including my two friends, Vic Lodge from Halifax and Nick Alkemade from Loughborough
[page break]
Page 3
were allocated to one of the houses, a sparsely furnished house without running hot water. We had arrived at 14 ITW RAF Bridlington, Yorkshire.
The messing facilities were located in the Spa Ballroom near to the promenade, an art nouveau type of structure where one could imagine the flappers of the twenties and thirties gyrating around the dance floor, soon to be brought back to reality with the greasy food odour permeating the once splendid ballroom.
Our time at Bridlington was spent on drill during the morning, and being an ex corporal in the ATC, the DI (Drill Instructor) often gave me the opportunity of taking the squad on these exercises. The favourite route was along the promenade where there was always an audience to give us a cheer or on occasions, a humorous comment from “Matelots or Squadies [sic] who were out for a stroll.
The afternoon parades were less exhausting, attending classes on aircraft recognition, a very important aspect of an air gunners job, sessions in a gun turret simulator and boring lectures on KR’s (Kings Regulations). We also had regular excursions to the 303 rifle range and to the Butts for pistol and Sten gun practise, surprisingly these visits became very competitive amongst our group with bets being bandied about.
The most enjoyable afternoon sessions was the visit to the local swimming baths where we could partake of a hot shower, get some dinghy drill in and generally play around in the pool.
All this exercise, the bracing sea air, made us healthily fit and always hungry. There was the NAAFI, a few fish and chip shops and cafes around the town but on this occasion, short of cash we decided to make use of our own mess for “supper”. Usually there was bread, margarine, jam and sometimes the left-overs of a sweet. We were lucky this night, there was plenty of trifle available and tour regret. three of our group including myself, were up all night vomiting and feeling very, very sick. The following morning we had no alternative but to report sick, the doctor immediately diagnosed food poisoning and dispatched us off to hospital, a rambling country house on Flamborough Head, I never looked at nor even consumed trifle again for many a long year.
Five days later, having been discharged from hospital, our group of city airmen were scheduled for posting to Gunnery School in two days time, quite excited and looking forward to our first flying experience. Bridlington had been a pleasant town to be posted to, nice beaches for sunbathing and swimming and ample entertainment in the town. Although our billets had been pretty Spartan we were sorry to say goodbye to this friendly seaside resort..
11 AGS RAF Andreas IOM
We boarded our train at Bridlington Station early evening with no idea the route we were taking, it must have been westwards as the sun was just setting ahead of us. After a lot of stopping and starting, we eventually arrived at Piccadilly Station, Manchester to be allowed of the train and told there was an air raid in progress somewhere in the vicinity. We spent an uncomfortable three hours hanging about the station not knowing when we would be on the move again, luckily the tea bar was open.
Back onto the train feeling tired and hungry, our train clattered on until someone shouted that we were coming into Blackpool as theTower could be seen in the
[page break]
Page 4
distance, no such luck, we ended our train journey in the fishing port of Fleetwood alongside the quay. Tethered to the dock was a one funnel steamer, looking like a cross between a cargo ship and a ferry boat, bringing to mind the John Masefield poem, “Cargoes”.
Feeling miserable and weary after our lengthy train journey, we scrambled aboard this ship and looked for a spot to get some sleep during the four hour sea crossing. Very surprised to find a sort of tea and sandwich bar on board, although welcome, we were disgusted at the exorbitant prices. After an uneventful journey we arrived in Douglas, the capital of the Isle of Man, the home of the TT Races and the tailless moggy.
Disembarking, following roll call, we marched off to the train station to board a very unusual and unique style of rolling stock, most of our group including myself were unaware that an efficient railway system served most of the island. The island scenery was quite lush, hilly and dominated by Snae Fell, the only resemblance to a mountain on the island. Travelling on we by-passed the little town of Peel before arriving at the end of the line, the little fishing port of Ramsey to the north east of the island. Transport met us at the station to take us the short journey to RAF Andreas ready for a welcome meal in the airmens mess after our long drawn out journey from Bridlington.
RAF Andreas was a normal wartime airfield, a mixture of wooden and concrete buildings and sporting the usual three runways. With it’s sister airfield RAF Jurby just four miles from our base, these airfields were built primarily to provide cover for our shipping against the long ranging Condors of the Luftwaffe.
Having been split up into groups of ten, our Gunnery Course was set out with lectures and practical work during the mornings with afternoon sessions flying in the worthy Avro “Annie” Anson.
[picture of Wartime Anson in RAF markings]
Avro Anson
A very comprehensive course started with practical work on the reliable air cooled 303 Browning machine gun, getting to memorise the parts, stripping and assembling and eventually being able to do this job blindfolded with flying gloves on. During these exercises, our instructor timed us with a stop watch, here again bets were being laid and even encouraged by our instructor, I think he was a bit of a gambling man.
[page break]
Page 5
These lectures also included the identification of different types of ammunition by the use of colour coding on the base of the cartridge case as to whether it was tracer, incendiary, armour piercing or general purpose, a calculated mix of all these types of rounds were used operationally.
A very important part of this course was the understanding of the hydraulically operated Frazer Nash gun turret currently in use on the Lancaster and Stirling bombers. It became obvious that we were destined to be operating in either the Stirling or Lancaster aircraft as we never had any instruction on the electrically operated Boulton Paul turret currently in use in the Halifax bomber.
Many hours were spent on the workings of these turrets, the causes of stoppages and rectification, how to obtain an aircraft drift reading by using the movement of the turret against a fixed point on the ground or sea, how to synchronise four guns firing 5000 rounds per minute to achieve the optimum bullet spread over a certain distance. Then there were the visits to the special firing range using fast moving aircraft models at 100 yds distance. Firing from a gun turret was quite an experience although only one Browning was operable for obvious reasons.
Our first exercise in the Anson was a simulated attack by a Miles Martinet, three cadets were allocated to our aircraft, each one of us to take turns in the turret using a camera gun. On all our flying exercise, lots were taken in cranking up or cranking down the undercarriage, quite an exhaustive feat especially winding up the landing gear, some chore 140 turns up or down.
Two more flights with camera guns then on to drogue target practise using a single Vickers machine gun in the turret. Each cadet was allowed 200 rounds of identifiable ammunition, meaning that the tip of each round was dipped in a soft colour paint ie; 200 rounds blue, 200 rounds red, 200 rounds green. If a bullet pierced the drouge[sic], the gunner could then be identified. These exercises varied in many ways, with simulated attacks coming from all directions, finally the last few exercises of our course, were air to ground firing.
A enumber[sic] of bulls eye targets were set up on cliffs to the north end of the island, it must have been upsetting for the bird life in that area.
[picture of X Squad 11 AGS RAF Andreas IOM – Standing 3rd from left Geoff Payne, 5th from left Nick Alkemade]
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Looking in my log book recently, I noted that in just the month of July I had clocked up twenty flying details of roughly an hours duration, mostly with Polish pilots.
During our time at 11 AGS, apart from the occasional guard duty, Saturdays and Sundays were non working days which, gave us the opportunity of exploring the island. The weather during our months course was excellent, so we took advantage of swimming off the charming little coves to the North of the island, there was also a small yachting pool alongside Ramsey harbour with the nearby Enemy Aliens Stockade, a series of commandeered boarding houses, bordering on the nearby Enemy Aliens Stockade, a series of commandeered boarding houses, bordering on the pool. We had previously been warned not to fraternise with the inhabitants of any of these camps. Sitting in a Ramsey pub one Saturday, three aircrew sergeants, all sporting navigators brevets, wandered into the bar, what a surprise to see my brother in the party, they were on a Wireless Operators course at nearby RAF Jurby and destined for operations flying in the “Wooden Wonder” the Mosquito. It would be another four years before I met up with my brother again.
The first week in August 1943 saw the end of our course with, a passing out parade and presentation of our AG,s brevet by a high ranking officer whom, if my memory serves me correctly, was then, Wing Commander Leonard Cheshire.
Not much time to celebrate, within two days we were given our seven days leave passes and travel documents. Pity my two friends were posted to RAF Desbourough[sic] whilst I was posted to RAF Chipping Warden by Banbury, only forty miles from my home and on the London to Birmingham main rail line.
I had enjoyed my time in the Isle of Man but very sad that over the years I have been unable to make a return visit to this interesting island.
12 OUT RAF Chipping Warden
Enjoyed my first seven days leave at home, left in civilian clothes and returned three months later in uniform, sporting three stripes on my sleeve with an AG,s brevet above my breast pocket feeling proud of myself. The seven days passed very quickly with time taken up visiting my relatives, ex workmates and of course my girl friend. Standing on Snow Hill Station waiting for my train back to Banbury, my thoughts brough me back to reality that this war is serious and that I could be on operations by the end of the year.
Chipping Warden was a pre war station, two story[sic] barrack buildings, administration blocks and massive hangers with brick built flight offices attached.
After picking up my bedding I enquired where the billets were and was taken aback when I was directed to a wooden hutted compound, complete with a sergeants mess, outside the main camp confines. This posed the question, are the newly promoted NCO aircrew being discriminated against?
Entering my designated hut I found a motley collection of aircrew including Aussies, Canadians and New Zealander’s, it was then that I discovered that aircrew NCO,s under training had there[sic] own messing and accommodation facilities. Meeting up with my fellow bunk mates, pilots, bomb aimers, wireless operators, navigators and gunners, found difficulty in picking up their accents and slang words. Meeting up with thee airmen, created a great feeling of camaraderie which was almost instantaneous.
The following day was spent doing the usual round of signing in and getting kitted out
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with flying clothing, me being a rear gunner I had special issues, electrical heated Irvine Suit, fur lined heated bootees and gloves, fisherman’s sweater and thermal underwear. All this gear required another kit bag issue which I lugged back to the billet, spending the rest of the day getting to know more about these friendly “Colonials”.
Reporting to Flights next day, the various aircrew trades were segregated, we as gunners went to the firing ranges for some rifle and clay pigeon shooting. During the afternoon we were introduced to the type of aircraft that we would be flying.
[picture of The Vickers Wellington (Wimpy)]
At that time all the aircraft at 12 OUT were all ex operational Wellingtons, virtually “clapped out”, the replacement parts being in short supply creating a shortage of serviceable aircraft. A rotational system of aircrew to aircraft had to be adopted, hence a crew could be flying three to four times in one day utilising the same aircraft.
The course began in earnest with a mixture of circuits and landings, fighter affiliation using camera guns, high and low level bombing, the same such exercises applied to night flying, apart from fighter affiliation exercises. After three weeks of intensive activity, the day came when the CO told the assembled aircrew to get moving on to the satellite station RAF Edge Hill some ten miles west of Chipping Warden.
My bunk mates and I had anticipated being crewed up so we had already sorted ourselves out as a crew, two Aussies, one a pilot from Melbourne, the other, a navigator from Sidney, our bomb aimer from Carshalton and wireless operator from Bognor Regis with myself as rear gunner. Over the past three weeks we had really got on well, that was a good start.
RAF Edge Hill
A typical war time airfield, very dispersed with plenty of walking between sections, built right up to the edge of Edge Hill itself. Due to an indecisive battle fought out between the Royalists of King Charles 1st and the Roundhead Parliamentary forces of Oliver Cromwell, the local population believed that the area was haunted by a headless horseman. Will that be a bad omen? Weird!
This part of our course was to develop these newly formed crews into an efficient operating team, an essential commodity in our own survival and for effectively doing the job that we had enlisted for.
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An intensive programme of night and day cross country flights began, usually incorporating high or low level simulated bombing attacks using small smoke or flare bombs. During our daylight flights we were often buzzed by a fighter, all part of the learning process for air gunners.
On one night exercise, we must have gone miles off track when we encountered a Barrage Balloon which stood on it’s tail as it caught our slipstream, we knew we had entered a defended area when a few bursts of anti aircraft fire appeared not far away. This caused a bit of a panic until our wireless operator fired off the Very pistol with the colours of the day, to our relief that gunfire abated. At de briefing, our navigator learned that, due to a false wind forecast we had strayed close to the defences of Bristol.
Time came to return to Chipping Warden for our crew assessment to be met with news that we were to participate in a Nickel, a leaflet drop to Lille in France, however, the operation was scrubbed due to our aircraft being unserviceable. At OUT’s this type of operation was a normal occurrence enabling proficient aircrews to get in some operational experience. I still have one of those leaflets.
20th of August 1943 was the end of our time at 12 OUT and the faithful old Wellington, the next phase of our training schedule was a posting to RAF Feltwell in Norfolk to undergo an Escape and Evasion course.
RAF Feltwell
RAF Feltwell was a typical pre war brick built airfield with grass runways, then in the process of converting to concrete runways. Upon arrival, surprised to find that there was only a skeleton staff in occupation, apart from a unit of RAF Regiment personnel who were to be our instructors to this Escape and Evasion course. We were joined by six other crews, a total of thirty airmen. In the event of being shot down over enemy territory, the object of the course was to impart some skills that would assist downed airmen to escape or to evade capture. It was a prerequisite for airmen to attempt escaping thereby tying down essential enemy manpower.
The first part of the course was training in the rudiments of enarmed combat, no holds barred, using all the dirty tricks available, the Queensbury rules didn’t apply in dangerous situations one may find oneself in.
Following on this exercise we practised the art of concealment, our five crew members would spread out in some scrubby woodland approximately one mile square, then to conceal themselves the best way they could and, using whatever materials came to hand. The Regiment unit were then sent out to locate us if they could and after a number of attempts this exercise proved useful and effective although one escapee got bitten by an Adder whilst hiding in some gorse bushes. Our final exercise was hilarious, we were taken out at midnight in an enclosed vehicle, dropping two of us off at a time some fifteen miles from the camp with only a box of matches and some cigarettes, no money and told to make our own way back to Feltwell. This exercise proved to be a non event as it began to pour with rain. We had been dropped off on a farm track in the middle of a scrubby wheat field where we found a dilapidated corrugated type of shed. A few fairly clean sacks were lying about and some wooden boxes which gave us an ample supply of fuel for a small cosy fire.
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There we stayed until a farmer with his truck arrived to give us an amount of verbal abuse until we explained that we were on an exercise and would wish a lift back to Feltwell. The truck dropped us off about a mile from the rear of the camp, success! The Regiment were out looking for us that night but we got back into the camp unchallenged and in time for a welcome breakfast.
One memorable occasion during the evening playing cards in the billet, we heard a sort of rumbling noise which got louder and louder. We rushed out of our billet and looked up at the sky, a clear night and almost dark. At about ten thousand feet there must have been hundreds of four engine heavy bombers heading eastwards, an amazing sight. Back in our billet, we contemplated that we could be part of that type of air Armada very shortly.
At the end of our weeks course we were given our travel documents to report to RAF Wratting Common, a Stirling conversion unit which caused much consternation among the crew. We had hoped to avoid operating in Stirlings due to the high loss rate attributed to this aircraft.
1651 Heavy Conversion Unit RAF Wratting Common
Wratting Common was a war time aerodrome situated between Cambridge and Newmarket, it had recently been vacated by 90 Squadron who had operated with the Short Stirling Aircraft. A well dispersed cap, miles from anywhere, the nearest rail station being Six Mile Bottom, three miles from the camp. Mud everywhere, I am sure that if you stepped off the concrete paths you would be a goner.
Settled in our Nisson hut and proceeded to scout round for wood and coke to service our lonely stove, an east wind was blowing in over the low lying expanse of East Anglia, cold enough to try out our new thermal underwear.
Reporting to the flights the following day to meet up with two new crew members, Dick Hollis, Mid Upper Gunner and Cyril Bridges, Flight Engineer making, up our seven man crew. Together with two other crews, we were then taken to a hanger[sic] to get to know this massive aircraft, the Short Stirling.
[photograph of the Short Stirling]
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Spent the afternoon scrambling about this aircraft, proudly showing off the various escape hatches and doorways to my crew. As an apprentice, my company was involved in the manufacture of various component parts associated with the Stirling, as was my girl friends[sic] mother being an electrical inspector on this aircraft.
Our first flights in the Stirling consisted of two three hour sessions of circuits and landings, not at all present, no wonder this exercise is known as “Circuits and Bumps”, we certainly had our share of bumps that day. It was a relief when the Gunnery Leader informed us that all the gunners on the course were to undertake an advanced gunnery course at RAF Newmarket as, there was no point in wasting time just sitting in an aircraft doing circuits and landings. Newmarket was some experience, we were billeted in buildings associated with the racecourse, even the Wellington based there took off from the racecourse.
This gunnery course took place over the North Sea and was more realistic using the same type of gun turrets that we would use on operations. Spitfires simulated the attacks and our Wellington would be doing the defensive manoeuvre of corkscrewing.
On the firing exercises we were either in the front or the rear turret firing at a drogue being towed by a Miles Martinet. Our time at Newmarket was very instructive being trained by ex operational air gunners. I am positive that by imparting their experiences gave me confidence for the task ahead.
Back at Wratting Common to find that we had lost our Australian pilot, they had been engaged on circuits and landings at RAF Downham Market when the starboard outer engine failed when coming in to land, the wing dipped and struck the ground causing the aircraft to crash. Our pilot sustained a severe head wound but was dragged to safety by the Flight Engineer. Apart from a few bruises the rest of crew escaped unhurt although the aircraft was a write off. The accident allowed us to take a fortnights leave over Christmas and New Year awaiting the arrival of a new pilot.
Festivities over, back to Wratting Common we met up with our new pilot F/O Bill Martin an experienced pilot on twin engine aircraft, it did not take him long to master this giant of the sky. Just a few day and night exercises of circuits and landings then on to long distance three to four hour cross country flights.
After nearly forty hours flying time converting to Stirlings our course finished abruptly when we were informed that as a crew we would be moving onto RAF Waterbeach to convert on to Lancasters. A quiet feeling of relief when word came that due to the heavy loss rate on German targets, Stirlings were being withdrawn from the main thrust of Bomber Commands activities.
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1678 Heavy Conversion Unit RAF Waterbeach
[photograph of Lancaster Mark II (Note: Flying on one engine)]
What a great feeling to get away from Wratting Common with it’s isolation and mud to arrive at a pre war brick built camp with all the amenities, a regular bus service into Cambridge, three pubs in the village and comfortable billets.
Accordingly to the talk around the camp, we were to convert onto the Lancaster 2 with Bristol Hercules radial air cooled engines as opposed to the Merlin inline liquid cooled engines. According to records, there were only five squadrons allocated this type of aircraft, three Canadian and two British. Just over three hundred were build by the Armstrong Whitley Company in Coventry as a stop gap, due to a shortage of Merlin engines and a surplus of Hercules engines. This Lancaster was a strange looking aircraft, but apart from it’s ceiling, the performance was comparable to the original Lancaster.
Within a week of arriving at Waterbeach, with only seven hours day and six hours night flying exercises under our belt we were considered capable of joining a squadron. Unfortunately, due to the Stirlings being phased out, a bottle neck seemed to have occurred throughout the squadrons of Three Group, consequently, our crew were sent to a holding unit at RAF Stradishall for two weeks before being awarded a seven days leave prior to our operational posting to 115 Squadron at RAF Witchford by Ely.
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Chapter 2
Operations RAF Witchford
After seven days of a very welcome leave, I arrived at Liverpool Street Station, London, early afternoon, joining up with three members of my crew, Sid Longhurst our Wireless Operator, Joe Waple, Bomb Aimer and Cyril Bridges our Flight Engineer. As usual, the train full of servicemen, mainly RAF, stopped at every station en route to Ely, destined for the many aerodromes scattered about East Anglia. Dusk was approaching giving the flat frosty landscape a look of foreboding which added to the apprehension that was building up inside me. Even the idle chatter failed to divert my thoughts away from the task that we had so flamboyantly volunteered for.
Arriving at Ely, the crew bus picked us up with all our gear and drove the short distance to Witchford camp, collected our bedding before being dropped off at our billet. Here we met up with our Mid Upper Gunner Dick Hollis and our Australian Navigator.
RAF Witchford, a Nisson huttet[sic] camp, recently vacated by 196 Stirling Squadron. The domestic site was situated to the rear of the village of Witchford with our billet directly behind The Shoulder of Mutton public house as it was named in those days. The administration area and airfield was situated at the eastern end of the village with the main runway start, close on the borders of Ely itself, a camel trek from our billet.
The following day was very cold, a hoar-frost covered the trees as we went about getting our bearings and doing the usual business of signing in at the various sections of the camp ie medical, transport, parachute section etc eventually arriving at C Flight to be designated a locker for our flying kit. Our Pilot, F/O Bill Martin arrived on the scene and introduced his NCO crew to the C Flight Commander, Sqd Leader George Mackie.
[photograph of the crew] L to R Back Row; Sid Longhurst W/op Cyril Bridges F/eng Dick Hollis M/u Jim Henry Nav
Seated; Geoff Payne R/g Bill Martin Pilot Joe Waple B/a [/photograph of the crew]
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Early next morning February 5th 1944, reporting to the Gunnery Leaders office, I meet up with F/Lt Eric Bilson who casually informed me that I was on the Battle Order for that nights[sic] operation, briefing at 19.45hrs. I would be joining the crew of P/O Speirenberg as their rear gunner for that nights[sic] operation.
During the afternoon, met up in the Sergeants mess, some of the crew with whom I was to fly with that night. Most of the afternoon was spent moping about the Mess trying to allay the nervous tension with a “cat nap” or a lot of idle chatter. This operation was to be the first for P/O Speirenberg and his crew, we were indeed a “sprog” crew.
Time came for our operational meal of bacon, eggs and fried bread, a luxury in those days, then the leisurely stroll to briefing along the ain street of Witchford to the admin site. Here we were directed to a large Nisson hut, on guard at the entrance stood two white capped service police looking very ossicious. Our pilot and navigator had already been briefed and were awaiting us at a large trestle table. Introductions all round, we sat waiting for the formal proceedings to begin. A command from the back of the hall brought us to attention when the squadron hierarchy marched to the front, led by the squadron commander.
[photograph] RAF Witchford Briefing (I am seated forefront left) [/photograph]
Stepping on to the dais, the CO wished us a good evening before withdrawing the curtain covering a blackboard showing a large map of Europe. Starting at Witchford, a red ribbon stretched out, crossing the North sea, meandering across France and finally ending way down in southern Germany. Gentlemen, your target for tonight is Augsberg, announced the CO to gasps from the assembled crews, many had recently operated on some very difficult and long distance sorties, including a number of Berlin raids.
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Following the CO,s briefing on the importance of this target, the M.A.N. works, we were briefed by the section leaders as to fuel and bomb loads, weather conditions, intelligence reports on enemy flack areas and industrial installations etc with a final word from the CO wishing us good luck. My own thought at that moment was, we will need all the good luck we can get.
Our pilot, a South African, gathered his “sprog crew” together, and trundled of[sic] to the flights to change into our flying gear and to pick up a thermos of coffee, flying rations, a few biscuits, barley sugars and “wakey wakey pills” (Benzedrine) plus my lucky Golliwog which my girl friend had made for me. Not too long before our transport arrived with it’s WAAF driver who would take us out to our aircraft dispersal pan.
At dispersal we chatted to our ground crew and chain smoked until it was time to climb aboard our aircraft M for mother. As a crew, we had not air tested our aircraft during the day so, each crew member did his own preliminary checks prior to start up.
A green Very light rose from the control tower then one by one the powerful Hercules engines roared into life, disturbing the roosting bird life and breaking the eerie silence of the darkened evening. Our skipper called up for crew reports if everything was Ok before waving chocks away, a short burst of engine power we began moving forward on to the perimeter track following a long line of Lancaster’s trundling towards the start of the east-west runway. On to the main runway, I was surprised to see a number of airmen and WAAF’s congregating alongside the Control Caravan waving their arms wishing us god speed.
The green Aldis lamp signalled us to go, and with a mighty roar from our four engines we sped down the runway taking off at 21-45 hrs thereon setting course for our turning point on the East Anglian coast. There we would be joining a bomber stream of almost 600 heavies on their seven and a half hours operation into the heart of Germany. The German air defences would already be aware that a heavy air attack was being prepared because they were able to pick up the RT traffic emanating from the large amount of air tests being carried out from the airfields of Eastern England during that morning.
Crossing the North Sea our Bomb Aimer called up to announce enemy coast ahead, a term that I had heard many times while watching such films as “One of Our Aircraft is Missing”. I never thought at the time that I would hear it for real which brought about an awesome feeling of apprehension, we were going into battle from which there was no opt our clause. We were going to war.
Now at our operational height of 18500 ft, above cloud and beginning to feel the intense cold, the condensation from my oxygen mask started to dribble down onto my Irvin suite[sic] where it froze solid.
Apart from a few searchlights and spasmodic flak activity away from our track, the journey across Germany was uneventful until our Bomb Aimer reported target ahead, seeing the Pathfinders red ground markers falling. Approaching the target, our aircraft began to be buffeted about from the slipstream of other aircraft converging on to the aiming point. The Master Bomber happily giving instructions as to what colour markers to bomb on.
Our squadron was in the second wave, the air defences were by now fully alerted with the many searchlights weaving about the sky accompanied by heavy flak, sometimes a
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loud crump as a shell burst close to our aircraft sending the acrid smell of cordite wafting into my turret. Lancasters and Halifaxes seemed to be closing in upon us, our bomb doors came open, and almost spontaneously, the Lancaster flying above us opened it’s bomb doors, my right leg began to jerk uncontrollably wondering if their bombs were going to hit us. Bombs away, bomb doors closed, nose down for a little more speed before setting course for home. By now my leg jerking had ceased and looking down into the target area it was like grazing into a giant cupola of molten metal, heaving and bubbling, a truly awesome site.[sic] Another glance down, I saw six ME109’s flying in formation three and three, well down below us silhouetted against the flow of the fire with their with[sic] navigation lights on. Very weird!
As we cleared the target area, a burst of tracer from the starboard quarter passed over us followed by a ME 109 crossing fast above our aircraft. The Mid Upper gunner and myself managed to get in a short burst but the fighter disappeared as quickly as it had arrived. I think that this 109 had his sights on another aircraft.
Heading for home, I could still see the glow from the destruction that we had caused even after an hours flying time. A few fighter flares, spasmodic bursts of flak and the odd searchlight were seen but way off our track, however ! we still kept our vigilance as these were the occasions with your guard was down, fighter attacks occurred.
Feeling very tired and cold we landed back at Witchford at 05-15hrs after a seven and a half hour flight then transported directly to de-briefing. A welcome cup of tea and a generous swig of rum in a chipped enamelled mug awaited us, served up by one of the cheerful WAAF’s, followed by a welcome breakfast.
Back to my billet, my own crew were away on a cross country exercise that day which left me completely alone thinking of that horrendous nights operation before dropping of[sic] to a very disturbed sleep.
According to records, the Augsberg operation proved successful although 21 heavies were lost on that raid, the equivalent to the loss of a squadron.
Due to adverse weather conditions on the continent Bomber Command was relieved of operations for the next seven days. This respite allowed our squadron to re-group, taking in a series of training flights and air tests. The break also gave us the opportunity of exploring the ancient city of Ely with it’s magnificent Cathedral, the little tea shops or just strolling the banks of the river Cam. There was also the unforgettable boozy evenings in the Lamb and other hostelries entailing a three mile stagger back to Witchford.
The third of March brought us back to reality when the Battle Order was pinned on the mess notice board indicating that operations were on that night and our crew were to participate. At briefing, the usual rigmarole, then naming Stuttgart as our target for the night, another southern Germany flight of six and a half hours. Our take of[sic] time was put back two hours due to the fore-casted weather conditions on our return, new take off time now 23-45 hrs.
An uneventful flight out with lots of thick cloud at various ceilings en-route until we neared our target, then clear skies above and 10/10ths cloud below us, illuminated by the many searchlights and exposing the bomber force to the higher flying German night fighters. The Master Bomber brough us in to bomb on the red sky markers (Wanganui flares) our bomb aimer began his instructions then, bombs away. Our pilot turned away from the target and requested a course for home but received no response
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from the navigator. Our flight engineer went back to find out if we had a casualty but, found the navigator was refusing to do his job. This caused a nasty verbal confrontation between the navigator and pilot who then ordered our bomb aimer to find a temporary course back as there was no possibility of trying to continue on the route set out at briefing.
This serious set back put our aircraft and crew in a very dangerous situation, not on track with the bomber stream, we were liable to being picked off by enemy fighters. Although the cloudy conditions at various levels gave us a modicum of cover, we were virtually alone in the heart of Germany, running tight on fuel and a navigator still refusing to do his job. Thankfully we had a very experienced pilot and our bomb aimer had a good knowledge of navigation. After flying in and out of cloud for some time and diverting occasionally to avoid defended areas the bomb aimer reported coastline and English Channel ahead, well south of our projected route.
Immediately our pilot radioed that we were running low on fuel and requested an emergency. Crossing the English coast, two searchlights lit up indicating a flare path, one circuit and we were down. We had landed at RAF Manston in Kent at 06-30 hrs with just fifteen minutes of fuel in our tanks, a flight of nearly seven hours.
While our pilot was at the officers mess, we tried to reason with our navigator but to no avail. Later in the day we were transported to our refuelled aircraft and took off on the 45 minutes flight back to Witchford, our bomb aimer doing the map reading.
Arriving back at Witchford dispersal awaiting transport, a staff car arrived with two service policemen. After consulting our pilot, the navigator was apparently arrested and taken away in the staff car. That was the last time that we saw our navigator, even after the war, we have been unable to trace him.
According to records this Stuttgart raid was highly successful with 557 heavies participating in the operation and only four heavies lost.
During the next few days, we carried out a series of training flights, including an abortive five and a half hours North Sea rescue search which classed as an operation.
On the 18th of March, with the Navigation Leader on board, our crew was listed on the nights Battle Order, the target Frankfurt, a heavily defended large industrial town with the massive factory complex of the IG Farben Industrie. Take off time 20-30 hrs.
The flight out was uneventful apart from a number of exchanges of tracer fire seen away in distance but, as we approached the target, many fighter flares lit up the sky. The target area was less cloudy than on the trip out and as we went into bomb, masses of searchlights were probing the sky. With the continuous red flashes of bursting shells, light flak tracer coupled with the crump of heavy flak, one wondered how anything could penetrate these defences let alone make it through the target area unscathed. However! We made it through and headed on track for home when a twin engine aircraft appeared astern and below at about 400yds, it was a Me 110 closing in on us. I switched on my mike to alert the crew to be ready to corkscrew but, the mike was dead, frozen up with condensation. Taking off my glove, I attempted to scratch away the ice that had collected in my oxygen mask but to no avail. I then tried to contact the crew using the emergency light button but no response was forthcoming. As the fighter closed underneath our aircraft, I got a good bead on it’s nose area and pressed the trigger. A two second burst and all four guns jammed leaving us completely at the mercy of the Me 110, the rest of the crew being unaware of the desperate situation that was to unfold.
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Suddenly there was a number of loud bangs, our aircraft shook and the strong smell of cordite permeated my oxygen mask. The aircraft began to manoeuvre violently as if out of control and with no information coming through on the intercom, panic set in, thinking that the crew were either dead or wounded. As I could not be of use in my turret, without an communication and my guns out of action, I decided to find out what was happening. Clipping on an emergency oxygen bottle I began to work my way up the fuselage when I noticed the main door flapping open and the M/u gunner gone. A horrible feeling came over me as I thought that the crew had baled out and left me to my fate. Looking up and around the M/u gunners position, there were bullet and cannon shells in the fuselage, an intercom junction box shattered, the gunners helmet hanging on the foot stirrups.
Our aircraft began to level out as I made my way up the fuselage, drawing aside the gangway curtain, to my relief the W/op and the navigator were settling down. Reporting that the M/u gunner had baled out, I went back to sit in my turret contemplating that if we got attacked again, we didn’t have the capability of defending ourselves. However! The rest of the journey was uneventful apart from my turret electrics being out of action which left me at the mercy of the bitter cold.
When we were almost back home, my oxygen mask off, I could smell something burning. I opened the doors of my turret and saw a yellow glow emanating from one of the ammunition panniers and reported to our pilot that we had a fire, he immediately requested a priority landing. After the engines were cut I raked out the belt of ammunition from the pannier and found that an incendiary bullet had penetrated the pannier and lodged in between the rounds of ammunition. Luck seemed to be on our side again, if this incendiary bullet had penetrated a cartridge casing, there would have been an almighty explosion.
After de-briefing I was taken to the sick bay to be checked for frost bite, the ends of two fingers on my left hand were numb due to scratching out the ice in my oxygen mask. After an overnight stay in sick quarters, the MO declared me fit for duty.
According to records this raid was successful with 829 heavies taking part in the attack with the loss of 22 aircraft.
Two days later, on the 22nd of March, we were detailed for operations again to Frankfurt, this announcement caused an air of dismay amongst our crew having lost two of our original crew members over the last two operations. However! we were fortunate in having the Gunnery Leader as our M/u gunner and the Navigation Leader on board again. Take off time 19-00hrs.
Over 800 heavies were detailed for this raid, a well planned diversionary route to the target was detailed which caused problems for the German night fighter force. Nothing of real concern encountered during the flight out but, being in the third wave, the defences were fully deployed by the time we arrived. Around the target area we were met by a terrifying barrage of flak with many searchlights weaving about the sky. We bombed then, flew on through this heavily defended area and, as we turned on to our course for home, a blue master searchlight came on astern of our aircraft.
I reported to our pilot that the searchlight was closing in upon us and coming closer, closer, closer, it’s got us. Immediately, our pilot put the aircraft into an almost vertical dive which caused all four engines to cut, then came the crackling on the intercom “prepare to abandon aircraft”. Opening my turret doors I struggled out and unclipped my parachute from it’s housing before dragging myself into the fuselage. The aircraft
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was still diving and I thought “this is it” there was no way that I could reach the doorway as I was floating about in mid air. Luckily the engines picked up again, with a mighty roar the aircraft began to pull out of its dive pinning me to the fuselage floor by the G forces. When the aircraft levelled out I made my way back into the turret and found that we were flying very low, almost in a valley with a river beneath us and searchlights crossing the valley almost horizontally. The intercom came on “pilot to crew we are going home now chaps” to a muffled response of “hear hear”. or words to that effect.
On the way back I began to have a peculiar sensation of throbbing in my hands, something akin to how chilblain’s feel until I realised that during the scramble to get out of my turret my heated gloves had come detached from my Irvin Suit. I tried desperately to reconnect my gloves but found it impossible, due to the numbness in my hands. My hands didn’t seem unduly cold, I wasn’t even bothered until we landed back at Witchford. After de-briefing the MO examined my hands that had started to blister, a sure sign of frost bite. I was immediately transported to the RAF hospital at Ely and put to bed, both hands being tied up to the bed rail.
Spent a couple of weeks in the ward having my hands dressed three times a day with mentholated spirits then allowed out, dressed in hospital blue. For a few hours each day, along with a couple of other patients, we wandered around Ely sampling the many tea rooms, the pubs were out of bounds to servicemen dressed in hospital blue.
One interesting feature at the time was wandering down by the river Cam and witnessing the actual Oxford and Cambridge Boat Race taking place on the river because London was too dangerous at that time to hold the event.
After another week in hospital, the blisters on my hands disappeared, the top skin had peeled and I was getting plenty of movement in my fingers so the doctor discharged me and gave me a few days sick leave.
Back at Witchford I learned that my friend Sgt Nick Alkemade and his crew had been lost on the previous Berlin raid and also that the squadron had lost two of its aircraft when they were shot down by a ME 410 intruder as they were coming into land after a raid on Rouen.
Reporting to the MO the following day and told that I was posted to 75 New Zealand squadron at RAF Mepal, just four miles down the road from Witchford. Sad to say farewell to the remainder of my crew with whom I had trained and flew with over the past few months, incidentally, that crew completed their tour of operations.
Spent a couple of weeks at Mepal just kicking my heels until the Gunnery Leader told me that I was posted and to report to 514 squadron at RAF Waterbeach awaiting my medical assessment.
In closing this chapter I would like to make reference to my friend Nick Alkemade.
Their aircraft was returning from a raid on Berlin when they were attacked by a JU88, setting the Lancaster on fire. The pilot ordered the crew to bale out but, the rear gunner found that his parachute was ablaze, his oxygen mask began to melt on his face, leaving him no alternative but to jump, better a quick death than being burned alive. He abandoned his aircraft at 18.000 ft and landed in a huge snow drift, high in the Hartz Mountains and eventually to[he] became a prisoner of war.
His story is well documented in the records of 115 Squadron and the RAF
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[photocopy extract] Log Book Copy of the Frankfurt Action
[photocopy extract] Medical Report
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[photocopy extract] [underlined] Combat Report [/underlined]
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[photocopy extract] [underlined] Combat Report [/underlined]
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Chapter 3
Return to Ops RAF Waterbeach
514 Squadron was formed at RAF Foulsham in September 1943 as part of 3 Group and began operations in November 1943 flying Bristol Hercules radial engined Mk2 Lancaster’s before relocating to RAF Waterbeach for the rest of the war until disbanded in August 1945 Arrived at Waterbeach and deposited on the ground floor of one of the H Blocks. RAF Waterbeach was a pre war aerodrome with all the facilities one could wish for. Hot and cold water, baths and showers within the billet and only fifty yards to the Sergeants Mess, Luxury indeed as opposed to the Spartan conditions which prevailed at Witchford. The rest of the inhabitants of my billet were all aircrew awaiting medical assessment prior to being returned to operational duties and were known as the “Odd Bods”. Some were recovering from wounds, frostbite, or illness and would be joining other crews when declared fit. In the meantime, we were all allocated some useful task to keep us fully occupied until we were returned to operational duties.
Together with another air gunner and as senior NCOs we were allocated airfield defence which meant on occasions being in charge of the perimeter guard or of manning the guns at either end of the main runway when the squadron was operating. This duty was necessary due to the frequency of German intruders who followed the bomber stream back to their bases. One night as I was manning the guns on the downwind end of the main runway awaiting the return of the squadron, I saw a twin engined aircraft approaching the runway and got a bead on it. As it came closer I noticed that it had it’s port undercarriage down but to my relief this aircraft turned out to be a Mosquito, obviously, in trouble coming in down wind. It must have landed half way down the runway in a shower of sparks then, a terrific bang and flames lit up the sky. After about five minutes the field phone rang to inform me that I could stand down as the squadron had been diverted. Three days later the station adjutant informed me that as I had recently been promoted to Flight Sergeant, I was to take the funeral parade for the two airmen that had perished in that Mosquito crash.
During my time “convalescing”, there was ample time to get involved with the many recreational activities on the station. One such time was the visit by a dramatic group with Margaret Lockwood taking the lead ni a play by and directed by Terrance Rattigen. On another occasion the RAF film unit arrived on camp to get the feel and film some aspects of an operational squadron. Among the group was the famous American actor Edward G Robinson with a retinue of lowly airmen who were to participate in this documentary/film although in later would become famous, such names as Dickie Attenborough, George Cole, David Tomlinson and a few others. This film became a box office success entitled “Journey Together” a copy of which I now treasure.
Very soon the “honeymoon” would be over, a message came over the Tannoy for me to report to the Medical Officer who told me to pick up transport the following day
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and report to the RAF hospital at Ely for my final medical assessment. A friendly type of third degree took place and, eventually I was passed fit for flying and would return to Waterbeach operational. Back at Waterbeach I reported to the Gunnery Leader and had a pleasant chat with him concerning my interview with the Medical Board. He told me that they were trying to ascertain if I was “swinging the lead” as frostbite was considered, in the first instance a self inflicted wound and that the recipient had to prove otherwise. With that, I was given first option of joining a crew when a vacancy arose and ordered to report at the gunnery office the following day and every day. D Day came and went and as I was now operational I was excused normal station duties so, I spent much of my time flying in the Link Trainer or knocking about in the cricket nets or even swimming in the river Cam. Bomber Command had switched from attacking the industrial cities of Germany to supporting the advancing allied armies by attacking German troop concentrations, communications, flying bomb sites/storage areas as well the many oil plants.
Reporting to the Gunnery Office July the 7/th, to my delight was informed that I would be flying that night with F/sgt Witwood’s crew as M/u gunner, as their own gunner was off sick with a bad stomach Target for the night was Vaires railway marshalling yard Paris and was part of the plan to disrupt the German supply route to the Normandy battlefields. Take off time 22-30 just as darkness was falling.
Flying as a M/u gunner was a new experience for me with great views all around. A fairly direct route to the target, plenty of searchlight activity but the flak was nowhere near as heavy as my experience of German targets. A well concentrated attack without the loss of aircraft possibly due to another attack on a flying bomb storage depot at St-leu-d’esserent north of Paris where enemy fighters claimed thirty aircraft. Landed back at base after a 4hr 45min flight.
On the 10th July I was with F/sgt Witwood’s crew again on my first daylight raid for an attack on a flying bomb dump at Nucourt. Take off time 04-04hrs uneventful trip with light flak at the target area which was covered in cloud. Landed back at base at 07-45hrs F/sgt’s Witwoods crew completed their tour of ops and all survived the war. Five days later I was to join a crew who’s R/gunner had lost a foot from a predicted flak shell which had penetrated his current and continued on to it’s predicted height before exploding. F/O Cossets crew were, navigator F/O Jimmie Gould a Scot from Kilmarnock, F/eng R J Flint from Motherwell, B/a FO Billie Lees Canada, W/op F/O Hayden, M/u Sgt Dennis Young, with myself as rear gunner. As there was four officers in the crew, socialising as a crew never arose, however, the M/upper gunner Dennis Young became firm friends until he passed away in 2008. It will be a mammoth task to describe all the remaining operations in detail so will pick out some of the more interesting ones as I detail all the operations at 514 sad.
15/16th July 44 My first trip with my new crew was a night operation to Chalons sur Marne a railway marshalling yard, a trip of six and a half hours.
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18.th [sic] July 44 Daylight raid to Amieville to attack enemy troop concentrations. Arriving at base at 00-70 [sic] hrs and informed to be ready for operations again that night
18/19th July 44 Night attack on the rail junctions at Auloyen, flak was moderate but in the distance, another attack was taking place at the rail junction at Revigny with fighter rockets seen. Back at base 00-40 [sic] hrs very tired but ready for a seven day leave.
Back from leave, we practised formation flying for a few days in preparation of deep penetration behind the German lines but once again Bomber Harris still wanted to continue his attacks against German industrial towns hence, another night trip into the heart of Germany.
28/29th July 44 Detailed to attack Stuttgart which was to be the third heavy raid by Bomber Command against Stuttgart in seven days.
Fairly clear moonlight night, fighter flares began to illuminate the sky as we approached the French/German border with a number of combats taking place north of our track. It seems as though the German Radar had correctly forecast our target owing to the amount of searchlights waving about the target area. Very heavy flak as we went into bomb with usual buffeting about, turning for home I spotted a number of Me 109’s scurrying about, silhouetted against the fires. The return journey was uneventful although these were the times that a marauding fighter could catch you unawares. After an eight hour flight we landed back at base at 04-00 hrs. Later we were to learn that 39 aircraft had been lost on this raid against the five hundred that had participated.
30th July Daylight raid to Normandy in support of our ground troops who were ready to advance against the stubborn resistance of a German mechanised division. Caen target area B was our aiming point, orange smoke was deployed as the British front line, and we were to bomb east of that line at 4000 ft.
Going in to attack we were met by a lot of light flak which subsided appreciably as the Germans took cover. I don’t know how anyone could have survived such a concentrated battering that I had witnessed.
3rd Aug 44 Daylight operation to Bois de Cassan flying bomb storage sites, four hours flying time.
4th Aug 44 Daylight raid Bec d Ambes oil storage port on the Gironde Estuary (of The Cockleshell Heroes fame) leading into Bordeaux.
Take off time 1330 hrs To avoid being detected by the German RADAR we were detailed to fly out below 4000 ft. Setting course in close formation, we joined up with other squadrons at Falmouth Cornwall then out to sea heading for the Bay of Biscay, an area notorious for patrols of Ju 88’s. Nearing the French coast we climbed to our bombing height then went into bomb. The attack was extremely successful as I could see the storage tanks on fire and a tanker alongside the jetty listing badly. Very strange that there was only light flak in the vicinity, it being obvious that we had caught the defences unawares
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Relative pleasant journey on the way back but it must have been quite a strain for our pilot flying at that low level. A couple of our Mosquito escorts buzzed us on the way home which was gratifying. Back at base after an eight hour flight and ready for a 48 hr pass
8/9th Aug 44 Night operation Forte de Luchieux, munition storage dumps and depots.
12/13 Aug 44 Back to the German industrial towns with a night operation to Russelsheim by Frankfurt on Main. Target, the Opal factories who were manufacturing aircraft and military vehicles. Very apprehensive as, this was my third visit to Frankfurt and held many unpleasant memories. Clear night with heavy flak and many searchlights and fighter flares. Incident free trip but losses were high, losing thirty aircraft, a loss rate of 6.7 percent
16/17th Aug 44 Loud groans from the assembled crews as the target Stettin was revealed, a Polish port away in the Baltic. We were to adopt the same tactics as employed in the successful daylight raid on Bec de Ambes and to fly out below 4000 ft under the RADAR screen. A diversionary raid would also take place against Kiel in an attempt to confuse the German defences.
Take off time 2100 hrs we set out over the North Sea, crossing over the northern tip of Denmark. To the north we could see the lights of Stockholm with one or two searchlights wafting about, accompanied by a few bursts of flak. I think they were warning us to keep clear although, I knew that some of our aircraft had wandered into Swedish neutral airspace.
Continuing on over the Baltic we began to gain height in preparation to attack. Not many searchlights about With [sic] a moderate amount flak we bombed and turned away dropping very quickly down to almost sea level for our flight back home. Uneventful trip back to base after a [sic] eight and a half hours flight.
It seemed as though the tactics employed on that raid were successful, with Stettin being very badly damaged, unfortunately our squadron lost one aircraft crashing in Denmark on the return flight.
Five aircraft were lost on that raid.
19/20th Aug 44 Night operation to Bremen. Very heavily defended and reports indicate that this raid on Bremen was the most devastating of the war. Uneventful trip
21st Aug 44 Converted to Lancaster III s Merlin engines
25th Aug 44 Operations Vincly. Flying Bomb site and storage depot in the Pas de Calais area. Watched a Lancaster spiral into the ground, two parachutes deployed.
26/27 Aug 44 Night attack on Kiel
6th Sept 44 Operations Le Harve. [sic] German fortifications and transport
20th Sept 44 Operations Calais enemy troop concentrations
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[black and white arial photograph of Calais]
[underlined] Attack on Calais [/underlined]
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Picture taken during the R.A.F. attack on Calais in September. Calais was bombed by large forces for two and a half hours.
BRITISH OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPH NO. CL. 1200. (XP)
(Air Ministry Photograph – Crown Copyright Reserved)
R.A.F. BOMBER COMMAND’S ATTACK ON CALAIS.
Picture shows:- Under the pall of smoke lie heavily defended positions four miles West of Calais. The picture was taken during R.A.F. Bomber Command’s attack on 20.9.44. when large forces of Lancasters and Halifaxes bombarded Calais for nearly two and a half hours. Two aircraft can be seen flying over the target. The craters at the top of the photograph were caused by bombs dropped from aircraft in the opening stages of the attack. (Picture issued September. 1944)
[underlined] Attack on Calais [/underlined]
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23/24 Sep 44 Night attack on Neuss (Ruhr) Heavily defended
25th Sept 44 Operations Calais enemy troop positions
26th Sept 44 Operations Cap Griz Nes enemy troop concentrations.
28th Sept 44 Operations Calais enemy troop concentrations
[copy of a navigation plot chart]
F/Lt Nye Navigation Plot Westkapelle 3-10-44
3rd Oct 44 Daylight operation to Westkapelle. The target shown was the Dutch island of Walcheren at the approaches to the port of Antwerp on the river Scheldt. We were informed that the target was strategically important as the Germans were denying the Allies the use of the port of Antwerp and was required for the supply of material for our advancing armies. The object of the raid was to breach the dyke’s and to flood the island purposely to neutralise the German forces established there.
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I was feeling rather disturbed that we were going to flood vast tracts of land that had taken years to establish and concern for the population who had suffered four years of hardship and deprivation during the German occupation
Take off time 1207 hrs. Reaching our rendezvous point there seemed to be hundreds of four engine aircraft converging before heading out over the North sea. Dropping down to our bombing height we approached our target and dropped our 8000 lb bomb which according to our bomb aimer, got a direct hit on the dyke. Passing over the target I saw that the dyke had been breached with the sea gushing through the gaps. Due to the concentration of German forces on the island there was an enormous amount of light and heavy flak as we turned for home, however it was thankful that no enemy fighters were seen over the target area but we still had to keep a watchful eye open as there were many enemy fighter airfields in Holland. Back at base after a two and a half hours flight, after “interrogation” we repaired to our mess for a meal and a pint to celebrate our M/uppers 20th birthday.
Some time later I was to learn that my best friend, a Marine, was killed during the assault on the island of Walcheren at Westkapelle. They attacked through the breaches that we had made in the dyke.
[black and white arial photograph of the dykes at Westkapelle]
Breaching the Dykes at Westkapelle 3-10-44
5/6th Oct 44 Night operation to Saabrucken to attack marshalling yards and steelwork installations This raid was at the request of General Patton in preparation for the American forces offensive along the Southern front in an attempt to stem the flow of German reinforcements to that front. Heavy flak in the target area, no fighters seen.
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7th Oct 44 Daylight operation to Emmerich a German town on the border with Holland. Synthetic oil installations and German supply were to be attacked.
It was the first time that we had been ordered to fly in formation, our two sister squadrons, 115 ahead and 75 New Zealand squadron behind us. Other groups and squadrons had made similar arrangements. As we neared the German/Dutch border very accurate flak opened up which immediately dispersed the Bomber stream. The lead Lancaster of 75 squadron who was following us took a direct hit and completely disintegrated, the wreckage slowly drifting to earth, a very
[black and white photograph of a Lancaster taking a direct flak hit]
75 New Zealand Squsdron Lancaster taking a direct flak hit.
disconcerting sight. Clear sky’s [sic] over the target which we bombed on the PFF flares accurately but as we closed our bomb door an enormous crump shook our aircraft and shrapnel rattled along the fuselage, putting my turret and M/uppers out of action. The hydraulics had been severed somewhere leaving us to operate our turrets by hand, not a good position to be in, although we were supposed to have an escort of Mosquito’s. [sic] Arriving back at base there was some concern that we would be unable to activate the undercarriage owing to the problem with the hydraulics, however, the undercarriage dropped down perfectly.
We delivered U for uncle to the hanger for repair and said a fond farewell to the lady. That was my 29th operation and keeping my fingers crossed that number 30 would be an easy one ?????
14th Oct 44 Briefing 05-00 hrs Taken aback when the target was revealed, a daylight attack on the Ruhr town of Duisburg one of the most heavily defended areas in
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Germany, dangerous enough at night. This is me going out with a bang one way or another. As we were to have a fighter escort, the flight out was uneventful until we were approaching the target area, there were nearly a thousand heavy bombers converging towards then passing through what seemed to be a black haze intermingled with deep red flashes of exploding flak shells. As we dropped our bombs, I looked down to see the fires and the ground erupting, a truly awesome site. Soon we were out of the Ruhr defences heading back to Waterbeach feeling slightly more relaxed but still scanning the sky’s [sic] for the unexpected fighter to jump us. Landing back at base I felt that the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders and what a relief to be looking forward to a fortnights leave in a couple of days [sic] time.
At de-briefing, the C/o said that operations were on again that night and read out the crews who were to participate. All gunners who were not flying that night were to report, to the bomb dump to assist the armourers to bomb up again. That included me.
The following day I learned that our squadron Had followed up on our raid with a night attack on Duisburg in the company of almost a thousand bombers.
Two days later, the crew celebrated the completion of our tour of operations at The Eagle, a well know hostelry in Cambridge.
Off on leave then, as a redundant airman, I was given a posting to the Aircrew Re assessment Centre at RAF Brackla by Nairn, Northern Scotland, jokingly this station was known as Brigadoon. That is another story.
[copy of a log book entry by F/O Cossens]
F/O Cossens Log Book entry at the end of operational tour
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Chapter 4
Grounded
[underlined] RAF Brackla [/underlined]
After a long food less overnight train journey from Peterborough, we eventually arrived at Nairn station late morning. During the journey to Scotland, I teamed up with a F/sgt F/Engineer, Jim Simpson from Walsall who was in the same situation as myself, redundant aircrew both feeling fairly low. Awaiting the crew bus, we became aware of how bitterly cold it was with snow on the hills and a cold east wind blowing in from the Moray Firth.
Eventually the crew bus arrived to transport us to our new home, a dispersed unused airfield with a few wooden buildings as the domestic/administrative site, our Nisson hutted billets a mile away from the main camp, situated on a hillock. With the usual rigmarole of signing in, we eventually made it to the Sergeant’s mess for a late lunch which we ate ravenously. Back to our billet we scoured around to find wood and coke to feed the pot bellied stove, the only means of warming our “tin hut”.
The following morning after breakfast, about fifty aircrew of various ranks, including officers, paraded outside the headquarters hut, many dressed in what one would describe as non regulation dress. Some wearing their Irvine jackets and many with scarves much to the displeasure of the parade Warrant Officer, however! due to the bitter cold wind that was still blowing around the camp, nothing more was said on the subject. Sectioned off, we waited in one of the offices until called individually for interview and assessment.
RAF Brackla was a war time airfield built alongside an ancient distillery, according to the stories from the permanent staff, it was to be used by Wellington aircraft patrolling the North Sea. Because of the peat sodden ground the runways began to sink and distort, making the airfield unserviceable for heavy aircraft.
Called in for my interview by a seemingly disinterested Flying Officer, I addressed him with the usual courtesy, before his questioning routine began. What was my education qualifications, my civilian occupation, and my recreational activities etc;? and so it went on for some time. I had worked in the automobile industry as an apprenticed sheet metal worker so I was offered training as an airframe fitter or a driver/mechanic.
I had given a lot of thought to what sort of peace time occupation I would like to be involved in when demobilised, deciding that factory work with set routines was not for me. As a youngster I had always been keen on all sporting activities, this could be the opportunity I was looking for. I conveyed my thoughts to the interviewing officer that I would like to train as a PTI (physical training instructor) which would give me the opportunity of going on to Loughborough University. With a wry smile, he said he would make a note of my request and that was the end of my interview.
On parade the following morning, the Station Warrant Officer addressed us with the comment that “we looked like a bunch of layabouts and needed to get back to some discipline and fitness”, we were then dismissed and told to report back in an hours [sic] time dressed in “Best Blue” ready for inspection. The inspection was performed by
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the C/O, an ex operational pilot sporting the DFC and Bar, with a bit of tongue in cheek formality he handed over the parade to SWO. The officers were dismissed leaving us in the hands of a F/sgt air gunner who marched us away and continued to march us at regulation pace onto and then around the perimeter track. After about fifteen minutes, the parade began to mutter amongst themselves until one wag in the centre of the file bawled out an order “parade break step”, the whole parade then began to shuffle along to guffaws of laughter until the parade F/sgt brought us to a halt and demanded to know who gave the order and why? The offending airman a F/sgt Engineer put his hand up and said or words to the effect “If we had continued to march in step we would have disappeared into the peat and I wouldn’t like you to be responsible for the catastrophe”.
That was the end of marching at RAF Brackla, to the tour expired airmen, Brackla became known as Brigadoon.
Christmas and new year was nearly upon us although Christmas as such, did not exist in Scotland, the New Year being the prime celebration. Brackla was just a small cluster of cottages, not even a pub or shop. We had absolutely nothing to do on the camp although I took the opportunity of playing rugby for the station which relieved the boredom. At other times we could scrounge a lift into Nairn, although it was a lottery getting return transport.
Nairn was then, a sleepy seaside resort with a couple of hotels and the odd bar. Sunday was a day of rest in Scotland and Nairn was completely shut on the Sabbath. On Saturday nights, there was always the dance at the Pentecostal Church hall. My friend Jim Simpson and I always stuck together on these excursions and invariably we were offered digs for the weekend, we even attended the Pentecostal Church on the Sunday. This weekly event followed the same pattern during our stay at Brackla, friendly people the Nairn folk. Two weeks into the New Year, Jim Simpson and I were summoned to the administration office to be informed of our posting to RAF Weeton near Blackpool to undertake a motor transport course. My hope of becoming a Physical Training Instructor was finally dashed.
[underlined] RAF Weeton [/underlined]
Met up with Jim Simpson at Birmingham New Street Station after a welcome seven day’s leave, en route to Kirkham and RAF Weeton.
RAF Weeton was a sprawling complex of wooden huts with manicured verges, white painted kerbs and edging which typified a multi training establishment, a formidable place. One of it’s [sic] saving graces was the close proximity to Blackpool, sporting a frequent bus and train service to the seaside town with it’s [sic] many entertainment attractions.
We soon settled into one of the wooden huts and made acquaintance with the other inhabitants, all tour expired aircrew, two of them were air gunners with whom I had trained at the Isle of Man, one of them was a fellow named Ward from Hull. His Stirling had been shot down during a French resistance supply-drop and he was the only one to survive, being rescued by a French resistance group. He fought alongside this group, the Maquis and with the assistance of a French escape organisation, he eventually made his way back home via Spain. He proudly sported a German Eagle emblem sewed under his breast pocket flap, he claimed that he had taken it off a German soldier whom he had shot during his association with the Maquis.
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The following day, we assembled in one of the huts, our dozen aircrew plus about twenty airmen recruits (Sprogs) were briefed on the course that we were to undertake, then spent the rest of the morning doing basic drill. Although the aircrew were senior NCOs we were still expected to carry out the same tasks as the recruits during the course, this didn’t unduly worry us. The afternoon was far more interesting, firing 303 rifles on the range.
Then began a very intense and interesting two months course on all aspects of motor transport. The squad was split up into two groups, one group being involved with class work and practical mechanics during the morning and then taking driving lessons during the afternoon, the other group rotating in a similar fashion.
Our first driving lesson was in an Austin 10 saloon under the auspice’s [sic] of The British School of Motoring (BSM) three to a car taking half hour instructional driving in and around the Blackpool area during the morning or afternoon.
After three weeks of driving lessons and intensive course work we were ready to take our driving test around the narrow streets of Blackpool. In those days hand signals were the norm as there was no such modern aids as indicator lights. Jim Simpson and I were delighted that we had passed our driving and theoretical test and were ready to move on to the heavy vehicles, 75 percent of our group were also successful.
Our first introduction to lorries, Bedford’s, Fordsons, Albions and Dennis’s, [sic] took place within the camp precinct getting familiarised with “double declutching”, reversing on mirrors and in general, getting the feel of a heavy vehicle. Out on the road we enjoyed the convoy excursions into the Pennines with it’s [sic] many twisting and turning country lanes, stopping on occasions at village cafe’s [sic] to sample the home baking.
Apart from the extra guard and orderly sergeants [sic] duties, as well as our normal course work, we had ample leisure time to take in the delights of Blackpool. During the war, Blackpool was an extremely busy town, full of service personnel of all nationalities, undertaking various courses or being kitted out prior to postings overseas. Competition for the attention of the ladies of Blackpool was very fierce, however! there was plenty of other diversions such as free entrance to the many shows at the Wintergardens, the Tower and other establishments. One such show remains in my memory was, seeing Sandy Powell doing his ventriloquist act at the Tower, hilarious!
During the final three weeks of our course, we graduated on to lorry with trailer driving, then finally the long articulated “Queen Mary’s” complete with an aircraft fuselage. The achievement of driving and manipulating this lengthy vehicle, made one feel like Mr Lucas or “The King Of The Road”.
Our course ended with notification of our posting and presentation of our RAF driving documents, the equivalent to a full driving licence. This would serve us well when we returned to civilian life. Jim Simpson and I were very lucky to be given home postings to RAF Halfpenny Green, within easy reach of our homes.
On leave, my mother received a letter informing us that my cousin was missing on operations to Harberg 7/8th of March 1944. He was a M/upper gunner with 57 squadron based at East Kirkby in Lincolnshire, lost on his second tour.
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[underlined] RAF Halfpenny Green [/underlined]
RAF Halfpenny Green was a war time aerodrome situated within easy reach of Wolverhampton, Stourbridge and Bridgenorth. It was originally called RAF Bobbington alongside a village of the same name, but the name was changed because of the possibility that the name Bobbington would conflict with an army base in Wiltshire.
Quite a compact camp with a mix of wooden huts and Nisson [sic] huts with all services within easy walking distance. Halfpenny Green was the base of No 3 Air Observer Navigation School using the reliable Avro Ansons and Airspeed Oxfords.
Signing in completed, Jim and I were billeted in a Nisson [sic] hut situated adjacent to the sports ground and, occupied by four Canadian F/sergeant pilots and four F/sergeant navigator instructors. We were in good company.
The following morning we reported to the MT office to be confronted by the MT officer, a surly red faced looking Warrant Officer. When he was told that we were his new drivers and were reporting for duty, he burst out laughing and said “I wonder what this air force is coming to”. or words to that effect. He turned out to be a decent enough fellow and we became firm friends during our time on the camp.
The MT section was overloaded with drivers and my actual driving consisted of driving the ambulance and patients to either, RAF Bridgenorth or to RAF Cosford and on occasions driving the salvage truck around the camp lifting the rubbish to the incinerator. Italian POW’s carried out this task accompanied by their patriotic Neapolitan singing.
Every Thursday evening, I was detailed to transport the Station Education Officer into Dudley to supervise the local Air Training Corps. As I was an ex ATC cadet, we got on famously, I think that is why I was always his driver on these occasions
When I dropped him off, invariably he gave me a free pass to visit either the Palace cinema/Dudley Hippodrome/the dance hall or the roller skating rink. It transpired that he and his family owned these entertainment facilities and is a pity that I cannot recall his name.
On one of these excursions I took in the Dudley Hippodrome to see Vera Lynn who was top of the bill that week, a very enjoyable evening.
Due to the posting away of two of the station drivers, our friendly Transport Officer gave Jim and I the opportunity of manning the Fire Tender, each on a turn about 24 hr on and 24 hr off basis, I think he wanted to get us off his patch as my promotion to Warrant Officer had just been posted on Daily Routine Orders (DRO’s) together with my war medal awards.
This arrangement was ideal, we would have more free time and also avoid the embarrassment to either party in the Transport Section.
The fire station and crash tender building was situated by the main gate and opposite the Headquarters Office Building. Our fire officer was a F/lt Lieutenant and a dead ringer for Arthur Askey, he also played the ukulele and entertained us on many occasion when flying was scrubbed. Some character that fellow.
Each morning, we gave our Fordson fire tender a run round the perimeter track and if flying was on, we would position ourselves on the hard standing at the end of the runway until the flying ceased.
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Fordson Crash Tender
[coloured photograph of a Fordson Crash Tender in front of a Nissen hut]
[black and white full length photograph of Warrant Officer Geoff Payne in uniform]
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My navigator Jim Gould from 514 squadron was the Navigation Leader on the station and was now a F/lt Lieutenant. He arranged for me to get some unofficial flying lessons on Ansons and Oxfords during my down time. We kept in touch over the years but sadly he passed away in 2001.
VE day arrived and I managed to get home for the celebrations, although very short and sweet, everyone let their hair down and danced into the early hours of the morning around the street bonfires. The war in Europe had ended with victory for the Allies, the Japanese conflict was still a major problem. My elder brother was flying in Burma as a Mosquito navigator, would I be seconded to the Tiger Force for a second tour on the other side of the world,?
On duty, sited at the end of the runway one day, our phone rang to tell us that one of our Oxfords had crashed, and we should follow the staff car to the site. When we arrived, it seemed as though the aircraft had dived into the ground, the cockpit area completely crumpled up. We had managed to get into the field with some difficulty and began to play foam onto the engines whilst the ambulance crew began to retrieve the occupants. Sadly there were no survivors and flying was scrubbed for the day.
When our shift finished, I returned to my billet to be met by a strange silence, two of my friends, a Canadian pilot and one of the navigation instructors had died in that crash plus the pupil navigator. During my time at Halfpenny Green, that was the only incident we were called upon to attend.
Arrangements were made for an open day on the camp to which I invited my girl friend and her mother. A lovely summers day wandering around the camp and showing off our station facilities. The highlight of that day was the appearance and aerobatic display by a Gloucester Meteor, the RAF’s first jet powered fighter. This was my first sighting of this amazing aircraft.
The following day, all camp personnel were assembled in one of the hangers to be congratulated on the station performance during the open day, then came the bad news that Halfpenny Green was to close down within the next few weeks. This news came as a big shock, Halfpenny Green was a friendly sort of station, in easy reach of familiar places and my home. Jim and I received our notice of posting quite quickly due to the cessation of the flying programme, both of us being detailed to report to RAF Croughton.
Our final task on the station was to dig a large hole on Bobbington Common and to destroy all the camp pyrotechnics. We literally left Halfpenny Green with a bang.
RAF Halfpenny Green is now Wolverhampton Airport and also home to the RAF Fire Services Museum.
[underlined] RAF Croughton [/underlined]
RAF Croughton is a 1938 airfield, sited on a hillock with grass runways and a concrete perimeter track situated about seven miles southwest of Brackley in Northamptonshire and within easy reach of Banbury, Oxfordshire.
The domestic site, a mix of wooden and Nisson [sic] huts, was a good mile away from the airfield. fortunately [sic] Jim and I managed to get our accommodation in a farm house alongside the airfield which was inhabited by two pilots and two glider pilot instructors, all NCOs. The rooms of the farmhouse were comfortable and had been decorated throughout by a modern day Picasso, very cosy.
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After the usual signing in. we reported to the MT Section and told that we were detailed to report to the airfield tractor section the following day for glider towing. RAF Croughton at that time was Number 1 Glider Training School, training pilots on Hotspur gliders. Our job was to tow the gliders, using small nippy American tractors, on to the runway and to retrieve them upon landing. The Miles Martinet was used as the towing aircraft, a noisy little beast.
With the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, VJ day came and went with no celebration on my part as I was detailed for a twenty four hour duty as Orderly Officer. The war was over to great relief and there was no danger of doing a second tour which left me pondering as to how long before demobilisation. Time began to drag as our only serious occupation was tractor driving when the weather was suitable for flying. During my down time there was ample opportunity of getting plenty of unofficial flying lessons in gliders and the Miles Martinet.
[black and white photograph of a group of men carrying a Hotspur glider]
Troop Carrying Hotspur Glider
Christmas and the New Year over, there were rumours that the Gliding School was to be relocated, possibly to RAF Upper Heyford in Oxfordshire. This left me wondering if I would be relocated or posted to some other RAF station. Two weeks later all flying ceased and I was to be posted to RAF South Cerney with immediate effect, my friend Jim was to be posted to RAF Coningsby. With the sale of our jointly owned 600 cc Panther motorbike, there ended a very close friendship.
[underlined] South Cerney [/underlined]
South Cerney is situated on the old roman road A419 three miles east of Cirencester, a pre war brick built aerodrome with a grass airfield and home to No 3 Advanced Pilots Course. Nicely laid out, compact, with all the services within easy walking distance.
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Quite a friendly greeting when I reported for duty at the MT section and was given my
main task of driving the Albion ambulance, based at the station sick quarters.
The camp also housed a German POW compound, the prisoners being employed in work activities around the area or within the station on general duties. I became friendly with one such POW, Ollois Kissel who worked in the station sick quarters. He was with a flak battery in Belgium before he was captured and was a chemist in his home town of Koblenz, we corresponded for many years but sadly he died 1998
On occasions, I was offered the task of delivering the camps dirty linen to the Tyseley laundry in Birmingham, entailing an overnight stay at my home, allowing me time to visit my girl friend. I even managed to get to my cousins wedding on one of these trips, much to the surprise of my cousin and family.
During my time at South Cerney most of my down time was spent either scrounging flights in Tiger Moths or Harvards or getting in some athletics training. At weekends I played football for the station team, the station sports officer being the centre half. After one of the games he asked me if I would like to drive him to RAF Tern Hill as he and another officer were representing the station at the Training Command athletics meeting.
During general conversation on the way up to Tern Hill in Shropshire, I said that I had been involved in athletics with Bromsgrove Athletic Club and I would have been interested in competing for our station. When we arrived at Tern Hill, I was introduced to the other members of the South Cerney team who managed to provide me with a pair of spikes and told that I would be competing in the long jump, high jump and the 120yds hurdles. Pleased to say that I was third in the long jump, and second in the high hurdles, our station coming second in the competition. This achievement gave me the opportunity of competing for Training Command at the RAF Inter Command Athletic Meeting held at White City London gaining fourth in the long jump and a fourth in the high hurdles. My only claim to fame at that meeting was competing in the final against the British Champion and Olympic Hurdler F/Lt Lord Burghley.
[black and white images]
Training Command Championship Medals 1946
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[coloured photograph]
Albion Ambulance
Summer 1946 came and went, the station started to run down and in October rumours began to circulate that No3 Advanced Flying Course was being transferred to RAF Little Rissington
. These rumours became fact when my name appeared on DRO's and I was posted to RAF Little Rissington with immediate effect. Two days later at RAF Little Rissington my name appeared on DRO's stating that, after seven days leave I was to report to RAF Homchurch, Essex in preparation for a posting to a Micro Film Unit in Germany.
Deutschland
RAF Homchurch was one of the original RAF airfields situated some fifteen miles south east of the centre of London. The fighter aircraft based there during the war played a prominent role in the defence of our country during the Battle of Britain.
Our short time on the camp was taken up by lectures governing the rules of occupation upon arrival in Germany. This covered such topics as, non fraternisation with the German population, the Black Market, and medical issues regarding the high prevalence of venereal diseases.
After a medical examination plus inoculations for Typhoid and boosters, we were issued with a . 303 Lee Enfield rifle and five rounds of ammunition. The rest of our time at Homchurch was spent just hanging about waiting for our travel documents.
This waiting time gave us the opportunity of wandering around, sightseeing in London, getting cheap meals in the crypt of St Martins in the Fields or Lyons Cornerhouse in Piccadilly. Sadly this rest period came to an end, our group of airmen were handed travel documents for the following day to train up to Hull for the overnight sea crossing to Cuxhaven, en route to RAF Buckeberg.
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Arriving at Hull station, we boarded the waiting transport for the journey to the docks, ahead of us there was this massive all welded American Liberty ship. Proceeding up the gang plank, a typical army RSM confronte.d me, addressing me with the correct term of Mr, assigned me in charge of the Deck Guard, no ifs or buts. However, this arrangement suited me as I was allocated a cabin, shared with two anny sergeants and a naval PO, a far better situation than being squashed in between decks and packed like a tin of sardines. A walk around the deck on occasions, checking on the deck guards was all the official requirements.
The night crossing was horrendous, these Liberty ships didn't cut through the seas, they just rode the heavy swell, sinking and rising, very uncomfortable. There was, the uneasy feeling that somewhere in that expanse of water there may be a rogue mine drifting about in the North Sea. Accompanied by sleet and snow, my first sea voyage, literally turned out to be a nightmare. My cabin companions and I were issued with red arm bands to signify that we had some official status when supervising the decks. Apart from the odd sandwich which the cooks specially made up for us , the food on board was quite unpalatable although a regular supply of coffee kept us warm on our regular strolls around the decks..
Dawn was breaking as we nosed our way into Cuxhaven, cracking the ice that had formed in the harbour overnight. We had arrived in Deutschland feeling miserable and cold, the Air Force party given priority to disembark to the RAF transport waiting on the quayside. A short drive through the cobbled streets of the port, we arrived at what was once a German army barracks for the overnight stay prior to our journey to Buckeburg, a spa town and holiday resort 25 miles east of Hanover. At that time RAF Buckeburg was the Headquarters of the RAF in Germany, and used mainly as a transit camp, although later, it became strategically important during the Berlin Airlift
The following morning, after a well earned rest, we boarded our RAF transport for a seven hour journey. arriving at our destination late afternoon. Most of the town, including hotels and homes had been taken over by the RAF, my group of four senior NCOs being deposited in a Pension a type of boarding house. After settling in I took a walk through the town and was taken with, children and adults begging for chocolate and cigarettes, little realising then, that these commodities were a valuable means of barter due to the German Mark being worthless.
The Messing facilities and Station Headquarters were situated in a large hotel near the town centre. After breakfast I reported to the Orderly Room to discover that I was posted to Frankfurt on Maine that same night to join a Micro Film Unit based at the IG Farben Industrie at Hoechst. My pay and British currency was changed into British Forces paper money, the travel documents made out for me take transport into Hanover and connect with the Bremerhaven to Stuttgart overnight train, little knowing that this train was run by the American Forces.
All my kit had to be packed again in a hurry, humped to the mess for an evening meal and given a travel pack of sandwiches just in time to get my transport to Hanover Bahnhof (station).The train arrived on time full of American service men newly arrived from the States and like myself, were heading for the American Zone.
This overnight journey was the most uncomfortable trip that one can imagine, the carriage that I was allocated had wooden bench seating and was full of coloured American troops, although that situation didn't worry me, I was concerned that the white troops were in the plush seated accommodation. This sort of discrimination
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stayed with me for many years. There were many interruptions to the journey and, time seemed to drag until, eventually we arrived in Frankfurt 10-00hrs, two hours late. Having contacted the American RTO regarding transport to my allotted base, I hung around for a couple of hours before a RAF Sergeant arrived in a 15cwt F ordson. Introductions completed, he was the Sergeant in charge of the Micro Film section and responsible for all the equipment plus a complement of four airmen operators.
I was to take over responsibility of a three ton Fordson van which housed a mobile micro film laboratory and the 15cwt truck.
During the drive to our base I was amazed at the utter destruction of the city of Frankfurt and it's environs, caused by the many concentrated raids by Bomber Command and the US Eighth Air Force. Strange to relate, I felt little sympathy for this destruction or for the German people at that time.
[black and white photograph]
Frankfurt on Main 1944
Our final destination was a small company housing estate which had been occupied by workers from the nearby I G F arben Industrie factory. These workers had now been decanted, the estate now occupied by units of the British Army, RAF and British civilians working for the British Control Commission under the umbrella of The British Army of the Rhine (BAOR).Two of these houses were allocated to the Micro Film Group .. A Board of Trade official was part of our unit who's function was to visit various factory organizations and to confiscate machine tool drawings and important documents as allowed under the War Reparations Agreement. Our unit would then photograph any important documents or drawings onto micro film.
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Another group on the site was a unit of the RAF Investigation Branch, who's sole purpose was to investigate and locate RAF aircrew, declared missing on operations .. This meant exhuming bodies from unmarked graves to ascertain if they had been murdered or otherwise. Many cases of murder had been discovered; the perpetrators being brought to justice.
The Americans had taken over office accommodation blocks within the massive factory complex of the IG Farben factory at Hoechst for their administrative headquarters. The British Control Commission for the area also had use of these office buildings. This arrangement was ideal during our off duty time, we were able to use the iced up tennis courts for skating and attend the many shows and musical concerts that were on offer. We also had the use of the American PX with it's restaurant, serving up real hamburgers and coffee. There was not much restriction on the amount of cigarettes and chocolates that we could purchase, the shop itself was like a miniature Harrods, selling a vast selection of quality goods. The Americans didn't want for much.
[black and white photograph]
Frozen up at Hoechst
There had been rumours circulating around the RAF bases in the UK that, redundant aircrew were going to be demoted At that time. I didn't give much thought to this situation, thinking this would not apply to me as my demobilisation was due
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sometime early 194 7. How wrong could I be when I received notification from Bucke burg that, I was to be demoted two ranks to Sergeant, with immediate effect. Christmas 1946 just two weeks away, what a nice Christmas present.! On the same notification was an order to proceed to Triberg in the Black Forest on completion of our task at Hoechst.
Christmas day, along with other senior NCOs we had the pleasure of serving up the Christmas dinner to the OR's (other ranks) followed by our own festive meal in the Sergeants Mess, a small hotel that had been taken over by the anny.
On Boxing day, I played my final game of f football for the base against a select Gennan side. We lost or should I say we were thrashed, losing 7--0 what a
humiliation. This was my first experience of playing against a team, playing a different style of football, this showed up how out of date British football was.
On New years day we set about clearing our house of equipment, loading up our transport with boxes of provisions and a few Jerry Cans of petrol, not knowing what the situation was like in the French Zone.
It was bitterly cold the following morning as, we filled up our radiators with water, no such luxuries as anti freeze. Now ready for the long journey to the Black Forest, our Board of Trade official had already departed in his Volkswagen having left us with all the relevant details regarding the route and our hotel accommodation.
This was my first experience of driving on the autobahn, two lanes of white concrete stretching as far as the eye could see, very quite, no civilian traffic, only military vehicles. We made excellent progress. although the temperature in the cab must have been around the zero mark, no heaters in those days, though a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator kept the ice from forming on the windscreen. At intervals, there were large advertising hoardings along the route, one of which struck me forcibly, a hangman's noose with the message "The Penalty For Rape is Death”, a sobering thought.
During our journey along the autobahn, we passed a few towns which had been visited by Bomber Command during the conflict, the twin towns of Mannheim-Ludwigshafen then on to Karlsruhe and eventually
Stuttgart all showing signs of utter destruction. There would be many an airman who had these names added in their log books.
Turning off the autobahn beyond Stuttgart we eventually entered the Black Forrest Region, along winding roads through valleys, flanked by tall snow covered coniferous trees glinting red in the sunset, what a beautiful sight. Darkness had just fallen as we drove up the main street of Triberg. Stopping to ask directions from a passer by, we eventually arrived at our hotel the Golden Kreuz to be met by a French Officer who questioned us regarding our authorisation documentation. While the unit was involved in setting up the equipment in one of the Hotel rooms, I took the opportunity of wandering around this picturesque town and familiarising myself with what was on offer. Triberg, a Ski Resort, world famous for cuckoo clock manufacture, and is also the home of the largest cuckoo clock in the world.
During the period of our stay, I was able to take in some elementary skiing lessons, having bartered for a pair ski's plus a complete pair of ice skates for a few cigarettes, our Forces money was of no use at all, being in the French Zone. A tin of corned beef was the going price for a large cuckoo clock which I "purchased" and is still hanging in my lounge after sixty three years, pity the cuckoo is croaking some what.
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[coloured photograph]
Triberg 1946
We completed our assignment in Triberg after three weeks and were ordered to return to our base at Hoechst for further instructions. After a few days at base, orders came through that I was to be demobilised, a replacement driver would arrive by car from Buckeburg with two officers. The officers were to carry out inspections at the RAF Units in the Frankfurt area then return to Buckeburg with me as their driver. Three days later, the inspections completed, we set off in the Humber Staff car, arriving early evening just in time for an evening meal.
Spent the next couple of days getting clearance and travel documents, selling off my ski's and ice skates, posting home my treasured cuckoo clock and changing my forces money into coin of the realm, I was then ready to take the reciprocal journey back to the UK and to RAF Kirkham for demob.
Date 25th of February 1947, what an anti climax, wondering where do I go from here? civilian life seemed to be a daunting prospect, after almost four years of interesting and sometimes traumatic experiences of war time RAF. During that period many friends were made, many were lost during flying operations ..
Let us hope that their sacrifice was not in vain and that we will always remember them.
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Chapter 5
As Time Goes By
During the Second World War, in order to avoid being conscripted into a military service not of your choice, the way was open to enter a choice of service if you signed up at 17½ years of age. This happened in my own particular case when I passed the Aircrew Selection Board in 1942 and was given my service number.
Searching through some of my old documents, I came across this very interesting patronising letter addressed to me from the then Secretary of State for Air, Archibald Sinclair, dated July 21, 1942, and though it would be interesting to reflect on how some of these young men fared during and after the conflict.
AIR MINISTRY
WHITEHALL SW1
MESSAGE FROM THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR AIR
July 21, 1942
You are now an airman and I am glad to welcome you into the Royal Air Force. To have been selected
for aircrew training is a great distinction, the Royal Air Force demands a high. standard of physical fitness and alertness from its flying crews. Relatively few attain that standard and I congratulate you on passing the stringent tests. You are, of course, impatient to begin and you naturally ask, "When do I start?" Your order on the waiting list is determined
by your age, date of attestation, and so on, and you may be sure that you will not be overlooked when your turn comes. While waiting, go on with your present job, or if you are not in employment, get a job if possible one which helps on the war effort.
You will want to know why you, who are so eager, should have to wait at all. I will tell you. The Royal Air Force is a highly organised service. In the first line are trained and experienced crews whose stirring deeds and dauntless courage daily arouse the admiration of the world. Behind these men and ready to give them immediate support the newly trained crews fresh from the schools. In your turn, you and other accepted candidates stand ready to fill the schools. Unless we had a good reserve of young men like you on which to draw, time might be lost at a critical moment and the vital flow of. reinforcements would be broken. I hope this explanation will help you understand. The waiting period should not be a waste of time. There is much you can do. You are very fit now or you would not have been chosen.
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See that you keep fit. Work hard and live temperately. Learn all you can in your spare time about the things you must know if you are to be efficient later on in the air.
The more knowledge you gain now, the easier it will be when you come to do your training.
In wishing you success in the service of you choice I would add this. The honour of the Royal Air Force is in your hands. Our country's safety and the overthrow of the powers of evil depend upon you and your comrades. You will be given the best aircraft and armament that the factories of Britain and America can produce. Learn to use them well. Good luck to you.
Signed ARCHIBALD SINCLAIR
SECRETARY OF STATE FOR AIR
INTO THE STORM
RAF Bridlington ITW
[black and white photograph]
RAF Bridlington was one of the aircrew Initial Training Wings (ITW) and catered mainly for Air Gunners and Flight Engineers. In this photograph are aircrew cadets, the majority of which were barely 18 years of age, marching six abreast after just four weeks of training. Another four weeks of training.
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and then they were off to gunnery schools for the Air Gunners or to RAF St. Athan for
the potential Flight Engineers. Then further training through Operational Training Units, Heavy Conversion Units and, eventually, destined for an operational squadron within
Bomber Command.
Many books have been written about Bomber command during the Second World War by aircrew members and distinguished authors. The media also has been at the
forefront with films, newspaper articles and television programmes, some authentic,
some controversial. The role of Bomber Command has been well documented, so there is no reason for me to add any comments and I will move to the ending of hostilities with Germany and Japan.
VICTORY
The Second World War ended with victory for the allied nations. An estimate of the
deaths accredited to all the nations involved was in the region of 40 to 50 million,
including the civilian populace. Still on the subject of the RAF, and in particular the
aircrew of Bomber Command, losses were in the region of 56,500, which was, in
proportion, far greater than any of the three services, although our Merchant Service
lost more than 30,000 semen/women.
[coloured photograph]
Rheinberg War Cemetery
The above photograph of the Rheinberg Cemetery is one of many such cemeteries in Germany and other locations throughout Europe which contain the remains of RAF
Aircrew, many of whom were from the Dominions, the Commonwealth or from allied
nations. Over 2000 airmen who have no known grave are commemorated by name at
the Runneymede Memorial and could be lying in a watery grave of the North Sea or
buried in unmarked graves after being murdered by the Gestapo or by German civilians. Over 100,000 young men volunteered for aircrew in Bomber Command, over 50 per
cent of them died in flying accidents or from operating in the hostile skies of Europe and the Third Reich.
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THE AFTERMATH
The war in Europe over and a Labour Government elected to govern the country. As bomber Command had a surplus of trained men, tour expired aircrew were made redundant, a new word in my vocabulary, and were sent to re-assessment centres throughout the UK, then on to training establishments for non-aircrew trades within the Royal Air Force, i.e. motor transport/clerical duties, etc.
The war against Japan finally ended on September 2, 1945, after the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Jubilation all round, the country celebrated, then came the recriminations.
[black and white head and shoulders photograph of Air Chief Marshall Arthur “Bomber” Harris] ’Cometh the hour, cometh the man.’ Tough and uncompromising. ‘Bomber’ Harris was the C-in-C that Bomber Command desperately needed, a man who could express himself clearly and who exuded a strong sense of purpose.
A high-ranking Labour government minister, John Strachey, began a vicious campaign to belittle the strategy of area bombing as devised by Air Chief Marshall Arthur Harris. Pre-war, this politician was a sympathiser of Oswald Mosley, the Fascist leader in Britain, and then he changed his allegiance to the Communist Party. He joined the RAF in 1940 and held a ‘grace and favour position’ as public relations officer in the Directorate of Bombing Operations. At that time Harris was becoming very concerned about the possible internal security risks posed to his command and who, following a tip-off from a member of his staf [sic] and, identified this officer as a person with an unstable political background. Harris demanded that the Air Ministry remove him at once, but thanks presumably to friends in high place, this person remained in place for the rest of the war.
After the war Strachey, as a minister in the Atlee government, maliciously continued his attacks on Harris and his command, gathering support from other party members and some high-ranking clergy. As the political pressure grew, even Winston Churchill withdrew his support of the area bombing campaign, although he had backed Harris during the conflict. Sections of the British and German press took up the debate, with some pundits questioning the contribution made by Bomber Command as to the necessity of area bombing, on the outcome of the war.
[black and white headshot of John Strachey]
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Peerages and knighthoods were handed out to our war leaders and campaign medals issued to our armed services, except for the aircrew of Bomber Command and its leader Sir Arthur Harris. The aircrew of Bomber Command were not issued with a campaign medal and Harris was ignored when the peerages were handed out. Many aircrew were unfortunate to be shot down and deemed to spend the rest of the conflict as prisoners of war. Some of these airmen did not have the nominal amount of operations or the length of time on a squadron to qualify for either the Aircrew Europe Star or the France Germany Star, and all they were entitled to was the 193 Star and the war Medal that was issued to every serviceman/woman, irrespective of their duties. The reason given for this anomaly was that as POWs, they were unable to take any further part in the war effort, although they were expected to make escape attempts, thereby tying down much-needed German manpower resources.
These aircrew were incarcerated in POW camps throughout Europe and were kept in appalling conditions on starvation rations and suffering severe malnutrition. As the war in Europe was coming to an end, they had to endure The Long March across Europe with many of them dying on the way from starvation and freezing temperatures.
Some time after the war the Ex-Prisoners of War Association made a request to hold a Thanksgiving Service in Coventry Cathedral. This request was refused by the then Provost of the Cathedral, Canon Paul Oestriecher, on the grounds that the Ex-Prisoners of War Association had ex-aircrew of Bomber Command among its member. It seems to have been forgotten that public donations contributed to the re-building of Coventry Cathedral as a centre of reconciliation. Also at that time, this cleric was instrumental in organising a protest at the unveiling of the statue to Air Chief Marshall Sir Arthur Harris by the Queen Mother and he even had the temerity to post an advertisement in the RAF News touting for monetary contributions to replace the Dome of Dresden Cathedral, which had been destroyed by bombing during the conflict. There are many more instances where this so-called cleric and pacifist has castigated the efforts of the aircrew of Bomber Command in the execution of their duties, so these instances can be left for another time.
[coloured headshot photograph of Canon Paul Oestriecher]
THE LAST POINT OF IGNOMINY
These redundant NCO aircrew, now trained in ground duties, were posted off to the many Air Force stations throughout the UK and were allowed to keep their aircrew rank, even though the tasks that they had been trained for only warranted a starting rank of AC2. However, on some stations, the aircrew rank was ordered to be covered during working hours.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of airman in flying kit]
[underlined] RAF Waterbeach 1944 [/underlined]
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At the end of 1946, a directive from the Air Ministry, stating that all these redundant aircrew be demoted by two ranks, I.e. WOs to Sergeants, Flight Sergeants to Corporals, Sergeants to LACs, although the pay would remain the same as was. This was a ruse in case any of these aircrew pursued a claim for a war pension when they returned to civilian life.
Upon demobilisation I was extremely surprised and disgusted to find entered in my discharge papers that my rank was AC2 Driver (Sgt. Air Gunner) and not the rank of Warrant Officer that I had achieved during my operational service with the Royal Air Force.
However, RAF Records graciously forwarded my Warrant Certification sixty four years after my promotion to Warrant Officer.
EPILOGUE
With a lot of back-slapping and encouragement these young men from Britain and the Commonwealth donned their Air Force Blue and went off to war knowing full-well that their chances of survival were very slim. The press and the public supported the efforts of Bomber Command as, at the time, it was the only means of taking the war back to Germany. Yet, just in the matter of a few months of the ending of hostilities the recriminations began. A few left wing politicians and some blinkered clergy crept out of the woodwork and began a vitriolic campaign against Arthur Harris. This campaign eventually permeated through to his airmen who began to suffer the brunt of these biased accusations.
As the political situation in Europe developed into the ‘Cold War’ it was thought prudent to keep Germany and the German people supporting the west, hence ‘The Marshall Plan’, etc, with respective British governments distancing themselves from the controversy of the Bombing Campaign against the Third Reich, a controversy that continues today. These proud young men went to war to preserve our democracy and freedom against two of the most tyrannical regimes in the history of mankind, yet there are still these vociferous groups of politicians/clergy and the media who continue to abuse this privilege of freedom for their own political expediency and personal agenda.
On a point of interest, our previous government recently decided to recognise the war-time achievements of three groups, the veterans of the Arctic Convoys, the ‘Bevin Boys’ and the Land Army, yet we as a country have failed, or are politically reluctant, to recognise the contribution that Bomber Command made during this terrible conflict.
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115 SQUADRON FINAL REUNION, HOUSE OF LORDS 2008
[coloured photograph of veterans of 115 Squadron]
Back Row
Not Known Cyril Bridges Lord Mackie Frank Leatherdale Geoff Payne
Front Row
Jim McGillivray Not Known Not Known W Farquharson Not Known
On that note let us recall Philip Nicholson’s “Return”
[underlined] RETURN [/underlined]
We have come home, dropping gratefully through friendly skies,
And though in tired brains the engines thunder on and images of death remain in reddened eyes,
Though nostrils sniff the legacy of oil and sweat and legs must learn to cope with the solid ground,
We have come home and are at least alive, to mourn our friends, indifferent now to sight or smell or sound.
Philip Nicholson
WARNING
Beware the retrospective historians and university-trained politicians who may eventually turn history on its head, whereby Britain could become the aggressor.
G.A.P. 2010
[page break]
[coloured portrait photograph]
[underlined]Geoff Payne[/underlined]
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Title
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An Airmans Tale
By Geoff Payne
Description
An account of the resource
Geoff Payne's autobiography divided into five chapters.
Chapter 1. Under Training.
Having been assessed in Birmingham Geoff sets off to London in August 1942 for training, at Lords. Initial training was at Bridlington then gunnery school at Andreas on the Isle of Man. After a short leave he was posted to an operational training unit at Chipping Warden followed by intensive training at Edge Hill. Finally he went to Feltwell for Escape and Evasion training before joining a Heavy Conversion Unit at Wratting Common then Waterbeach.
Chapter 2. Operations RAF Witchford. After seven days leave he commenced operational flying in a Lancaster. Their first target was Augsburg and he reports being waved off by WAAFs and airmen. On the next operation the navigator had a breakdown and refused to help. He continues with details of several operations.
Chapter 3. Return to Ops RAF Waterbeach. Initially this proved to be a very relaxing posting but after his recovery he was back on operations. After 30 operations he was posted to RAF Brackla, Nairn.
Chapter 4. Grounded. He was unhappy at Brackla which was remote and cold. Next was a transfer south to RAF Weeton where he learned about motor transport and learned to drive. He was then posted to RAF Halfpenny Green, followed by RAF Croughton and South Cerney. He then went to Hornchurch before being sent to Germany where he joined a micro film unit at Frankfurt. On completion of photographing relevant factory installations his unit headed south to Triberg in Bavaria.
Chapter 5. As Time Goes By. He reflects on his letter from the Secretary of State from Air, Bomber Command losses and life after the war. he discusses Labour minister John Strachey, a pre-war fascist then Communist Party , who belittled the work of Bomber Harris. and the refusal to allow a thanksgiving service to honour the ex-Prisoner of War Association at Coventry Cathedral.
Creator
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Geoff Payne
Date
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2010
Format
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56 page memoir
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BPayneGPayneGv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Birmingham
England--London
England--York
England--Halifax
England--Loughborough
England--Flamborough Head
England--Manchester
England--Blackpool
England--Fleetwood
Great Britain Miscellaneous Island Dependencies--Douglas (Isle of Man)
England--Banbury (Oxfordshire)
England--London
England--Bognor Regis
France--Lille
England--Cambridge
England--Coventry
England--Ely
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Stuttgart
France--Rouen
France--Vaires-sur-Marne
France--Normandy
France--Creil
France--Nucourt
France--Caen
France--L'Isle-Adam
France--Gironde Estuary
England--Falmouth
France--Somme
Germany--Rüsselsheim
Germany--Kiel
Sweden--Stockholm
Germany--Bremen
France--Le Havre
France--Calais
Germany--Neuss
Netherlands--Walcheren
Belgium--Antwerp
Germany--Emmerich
Germany--Duisburg
Scotland--Nairn
England--Peterborough
England--Walsall
England--Hull
England--Wolverhampton
England--Dudley
England--Brackley
England--Cirencester
Germany--Cuxhaven
Germany--Bückeburg
Germany--Bremerhaven
Germany--Black Forest
Germany--Triberg
Germany--Rheinberg
Germany--Hannover
Poland--Szczecin
France--Châlons-en-Champagne
France--Pas-de-Calais
Poland
France
Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Sweden
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lancashire
England--Leicestershire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Sussex
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
England--Warwickshire
England--Newmarket (Suffolk)
Contributor
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David Bloomfield
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
115 Squadron
12 OTU
1651 HCU
1678 HCU
514 Squadron
75 Squadron
90 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
crewing up
escaping
evading
flight engineer
ground personnel
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Ju 88
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 2
Lancaster Mk 3
Martinet
Me 109
Me 110
Me 410
Meteor
Mosquito
navigator
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Andreas
RAF Brackla
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bridlington
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF Coningsby
RAF Cosford
RAF Downham Market
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Feltwell
RAF Foulsham
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Hornchurch
RAF Jurby
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Mepal
RAF Newmarket
RAF South Cerney
RAF Stradishall
RAF Ternhill
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Witchford
RAF Wratting Common
searchlight
Spitfire
Stirling
target indicator
the long march
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
wireless operator
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/600/8869/PLongTCA1601.1.jpg
8d538e3525b5aa182d76ec1adb446db6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/600/8869/ALongTCA160611.2.mp3
21e2de34cf1fb97c9dc25e4cdec626f4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Long, Thomas Charles Arthur
T C A Long
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Long, TCA
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Pilot Officer Arthur Long (1920 - 2016, 1578331 Royal Air Force) and seven photographs, including several with his future wife, Joyce. He flew operations as a navigator with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GB: This interview is being recorded for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Gill Barnes and the interviewee is Arthur Long. The interview is taking place at Mr Long’s home in Leicester on the 11th of June 2016. Also present is Mrs Joyce Long and my husband Andrew Barnes. Arthur, I’m really looking forward to hearing about your life and experience in the RAF. Starting at the beginning where were you born?
AL: You don’t want to go back just before that ‘cause — oh wait a minute. Before that I was in the Home Guard at Quorn.
GB: Yes. Whereabouts in England were you born though?
AL: Quorn.
GB: In Quorn. That’s right. You were telling me. Yes.
AL: Quorn. Yes. I was in the Quorn Home Guard.
GB: Right.
AL: Before that but that was while I was working at the Brush at Loughborough designing buses, tramcars.
GB: Were you an engineer?
AL: I was a draughtsman.
GB: Right.
AL: Designing body work of buses and tramcars for Blackpool, Leicester and people, places like that.
GB: That’s right.
AL: London too.
GB: And where did you go to college to learn that?
AL: Loughborough College. I didn’t go daytime.
GB: Right.
AL: I went night school to Loughborough College.
GB: Right.
AL: Passed my National Certificate.
JL: Higher.
AB: Higher National Certificate.
AL: That was when I was working at the Brush and I was on a reserved occupation.
GB: Right. And about what time was that? What year roughly?
AL: ’41.
JL: 1940.
AL: Sorry?
JL: 1940.
AL: Around about 1940.
GB: 1940.
JL: ’39/38.
GB: Ok.
AL: Yes.
GB: And did you go to school in Leicester?
AL: I beg your pardon?
GB: Did you go to school in Leicester?
AL: Yes. It was just an ordinary school. No. In Quorn.
GB: In Quorn.
AL: In Quorn.
GB: Yes.
AL: But I did night school in Loughborough College.
GB: Right.
AL: And took my National Certificate there.
GB: Yes.
AL: I was in the middle of the Advanced National Certificate when I volunteered ‘cause I volunteered you see.
GB: Yes.
AL: That being an reserved occupation — that my friends were all in the army or were serving. Been called. So I thought something had to be done about this man Hitler. He was running rife.
GB: Yes.
AL: And my friends in Quorn, a lot of my friends in Quorn.
GB: And what —
AL: And that was at the time I met up with Joyce.
GB: Right. Where we —
JL: ’41.
AL: We were both in the same choir at the same church.
GB: Oh gosh.
AL: And in the Youth Club too at Loughborough, at Loughborough Baxter Gate Church.
GB: Right.
AL: About that all about that same time.
GB: Yes.
AL: The 1940s.
GB: And what drew you to join the RAF as opposed to the other services?
AL: Well you had to. To get out of a reserved occupation. I wanted to join the RAF but you couldn’t get out of a reserved occupation unless you joined the RAF and so and crew. RAF as a crew member. So I was put on the reserves. I got a reserve badge as a volunteer reserve and I had to go to Birmingham to get a medical and then I was put on the reserve for about six months. They didn’t take you straight away. Anyway, that is when they, I was finally called up to ACRC. Lord’s Cricket Ground, London.
GB: Yes.
AL: And that was, this photograph is of, at St John’s Wood just outside Lord’s Cricket Ground. You know it.
GB: I know it.
AL: We used to eat at the Zoo [laughs] and we used to go, used to march from St John’s Wood to the Zoo cafeteria and the apes would start howling and we helped them along. The boys did of course. We were woken up very early at St John’s Wood by bashing dustbin lids to waken everybody up. It was still dark. We had a lantern at the front and marched down to there for breakfast at Lords, at er the Zoo. So that was my first experience.
GB: And what did you learn there? What were they, what was the training?
AL: Oh no training. Purely, purely medicals and things like that.
GB: Oh right.
AL: Aircrew. ACRC is Aircraft Recruitment Centre. It’s just a recruitment centre.
AB: Yeah.
AL: Now I was sent on to Newquay then. ITW at Newquay and Newquay we were there that’s where we started our training in navigation, astrology, [pause] communication.
GB: Yeah.
AL: By Aldiss lamp and —
GB: Did you choose to become a navigator?
AL: No. Now there’s a story behind that. Quite a story. We get to that because I was sent on from there er trying to remember exactly where we went but I did most of my training in Canada. Went over on the Queen Elizabeth on its own. Not a convoy. It zigzagged across the Atlantic and one day we found ourselves getting quite warm and had gone quite south to miss the U-boats.
AB: Gosh.
AL: And we finally finished up at Halifax way up north and got the, got the train down. Got our first orange, taste of oranges. [Laughs]. We had that for some time. And went down to Moncton which was another holding station. Very cold there but the people were nice at Moncton. If you went to a church in Moncton you got invited to their families. Well, wherever we went, if you went to a church you were invited to a family. Of course we finished up at Quebec. I was invited there as well. But when Churchill was there at Quebec with Stalin and various at Chateau Frontenac in Quebec and we, that takes me into the start of our training because we went on a bombing and gunnery course as an observer not as a navigator. They started and this became strengthened as you will find later on. I went to, I forget, I’ve got the names of the places down here but, there was, [pause] I don’t know what it was called.
GB: Why did they send you to Canada to train?
AL: I’m trying to think of the names of the places I was at in Canada. There was that. Oh. Oh it was at. Oh. Oh that was Monkton that was so it was after that. Air Observer. RC. Royal Canadian Air Force. Number 8 Air Observer’s Course. Oh that was until, now that was Quebec.
GB: Right.
AL: Where I got my observer badge which was sent in by a Princess Julianna of the Netherlands. Now Princess Juliana became Queen.
GB: Yes.
AL: And that was because there was quite a lot of Dutchmen on that course that I was taking. That was training in navigation. Everything, everything to do with being an observer and as an observer you had to be, it was a Coastal Command thing. Anyway, it was Princess Julianna of the Netherlands who presented me with my brevet and we —
GB: Were there many English people being trained in Canada?
AL: Yes. Oh yes. In Quebec. Yes. They were English people and they were very nice. Very helpful. We were supposed to be reviewed by Winston Churchill himself but he couldn’t get away so he sent his daughter Sarah Churchill. So she reviewed us which was a bit of a let-down.
GB: Where did you do your officer training?
AL: I beg your pardon?
GB: Where did you do your officer training? To become a pilot officer.
AL: I became a pilot, now that’s a [laughs] that comes a bit later because —
GB: Right.
AL: The RAF, after my operations which I’ve got yet to talk about, after the operations I was seconded to BOAC, British Overseas Airways Corporation to start it up. Nobody had heard of BOAC. They thought I was in the French Navy when I wore their uniform. It was dark blue. So, anyway, I went with BOAC for twelve months and while I was training at Ossington air force, Ossington Training School for a first class navigator’s certificate the RAF’s certificate wasn’t enough for BOAC. I had to train for first class navigator’s certificate which difference being mainly concentration on —
JL: Stars.
AL: On the stars.
AB: Astronomy.
AL: Astrology.
AB: That’s it.
AL: Being using a sextant and everything and astrology. I know I had to, with, with BOAC I think one of the earliest days out our computer went. Not computer, compass. My compass went. I had to correct it, our course by taking sextant shots of the sun.
AB: Yes.
AL: To get us back on course.
AB: Ok.
That was when we were flying down the Gold Coast. I think we had to cross Africa but that was during BOAC. That was after.
GB: Yeah.
AL: I was in the air force. So, after the air force I came back on the Mauritania. Going out on the Elizabeth we were in cabins but in the Mauritania coming back we were in the hold in hammocks and that again was a long journey zigzagging back to England. Dropped us at Liverpool. Now, when we landed at, when we were over in America er in Canada I did a hitch hike down to America and back and I bought Joyce a ring.
GB: Oh.
AL: I, to be sure, make it safe I hung it around my neck. I’m glad I did because the other things that I brought as gifts back, I brought them back to Liverpool and the stevedores — and Liverpool, doesn’t hold any good memories for me — Liverpool, the stevedores broke my knapsack open and stole the gifts that I’d brought but they couldn’t steal that ring because I’d got it around my neck. Anyway, we landed. Again, another bad mark for Liverpool was we, it was Christmas and we were due to go Christmas leave and they said, ‘Oh we’re going to make you navigators.’ We said, ‘No. You can’t. We passed out as observers.’ ‘Well we won’t let you go on leave unless you put up your navigator badge you see. So what could we do? We [un-? ] the observer’s badge, put on the navigator badge. Got our leave put the observers badge back on again and went home. [laughs] Got our leave. Anyway, that —
GB: Was there any more training?
AL: A bad, bad mark for Liverpool.
GB: Absolutely. Was there any more training after that, Arthur?
AL: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. We had to go to Halfpenny Green.
JL: Lincolnshire.
AL: For training to jump with a parachute. You jumped off a high platform so that was that sort of thing. Now when we were at Moncton in, in Canada we tried to build up an unofficial navigation course but they were more interested in doing [calls?] like helping at the infirmary and if you had to go to a hospital that had medics on Moncton Centre. You had to walk way up in the freezing weather [laughs]. Anyway, it was quite an experience. Twenty five degrees below I think it was. Very cold.
GB: How long —
AL: I was on duty at Moncton once and you had a brazier. You could always put your hand in it it was so cold. Anyway, that was at Moncton. And I’ve jumped on a bit. I was at a bombing and gunnery school at another place which I’ve forgotten the name of. No. I can’t remember. My memory goes. It’s so bad.
AL: That’s —
GB: But then we went on to Wing which was where we crewed up. At Wing. And there I think we did our first flight over over Germany or somewhere. It could have been Poland. I forget where but we dropped leaflets. Leaflets for —
AB: Propaganda.
AL: Yes. What do you call it? One was in Polish and one was in German I think.
GB: Oh right. Yeah.
AL: I don’t whether —
JL: Propaganda.
GB: Absolutely.
JL: Propaganda leaflets. Never mind.
GB: So that was your first experience of flying on a mission.
AL: That was, that was first crewed up experience.
GB: Yes. How did you come to —
AL: Harry. Harry Tweed.
GB: Ok.
AL: He was Henry Tweed really but we all knew him as Harry.
GB: Right. How did you come to join 75 Squadron?
AL: Well that was, that was that was part of, that’s when we were at Wing.
GB: Right.
AL: We were at Wing then. Of course when you crew up you are given a choice of postings. And so we talked it over among, among ourselves and the only one that we could think of was at Mepal which was our rear gunner’s, tail-end-Charlie’s, his home was near Mepal.
GB: Yeah.
AL: And that was, that was 75 Squadron at Mepal.
GB: It was. Yes.
AL: It’s been in the news lately I think.
GB: Yes.
AL: They found a skull there in a quarry there I think or something.
GB: 75 flew a number of aeroplanes. They started, well they had a phase of flying Wellingtons and then they went on Lancasters.
AL: That’s right. Well we went straight on to Lancasters.
GB: Right.
AL: So I was in A Squadron. We’ve got that photograph of B, we’ve got a big photograph of B Squadron but we didn’t seem to get one of A Squadron. So I wasn’t on that.
GB: And who was in your crew?
AL: Did what?
GB: Who was in your crew?
AL: Well there was Harry Tweed was the pilot. Benjy was the mid upper gunner. Benjamin. We called him Benjy.
GB: Yes.
AL: They’re in there I think.
GB: Yes.
AL: Complete with names. There was, I sat at, you know how it is to get into a Lancaster. Well, laden with sextant and maps you had to, you got into the aircraft alright but then you had to climb up, clamber over the D spar. You more or less fell over the D spar. It’s about this high you got over. Next to the pilot.
AB: Right.
AL: There’s a pilot, there’s an engineer, all the names is down there and I forget them.
GB: That’s fine.
AL: They’re all written down in there.
GB: Yes.
AL: And then there was the tail-end-Charlie was, his father was a farmer and we used to go to his house and they used to lay on dances and things. They were very very good. So we used to, I had a motorbike then and they had a car. The rest of the crew had a car. They would go off in the car and I would follow up with the motorbike or whatever. [They would away?]. That was very helpful.
GB: Ultimately 75 Squadron went on to become a New Zealand Squadron. Were there any —
AL: Well I thought it was always a New Zealand Squadron.
GB: Oh right. Ok. So were they, were you, were there any New Zealanders in your –?
AL: And the reason why it was a New Zealand Squadron. We joined it, 75, we had one New Zealander in the crew.
GB: Right.
AL: That was the bomb aimer. Alan John.
GB: Right.
AL: The bomb aimer. And he was Shorty. We used to call him Shorty and he didn’t like that [laughs]. Anyway, he liked to think he was good but he wasn’t that good.
GB: So what year are we now? You’ve got your crew. You’re flying Lancasters. Roughly what year was that?
AL: Forty. Oh my logbook’s upstairs. It’s down in there.
GB: Ok.
AL: It’s in my logbook but that was, when I when I was at Ossington at training for, it was, Dunkirk. No it couldn’t have been. No. No. No. No. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Dunkirk. [Pause]. My, my could you get my logbook from upstairs? You know where it is. Dunkirk is when we had the end of our, my flying on ops. Or was it the beginning? No. It could have been the beginning. It could have been the beginning of my ops and that’s when we were bombing gun sights in France near Calais to help the evacuation. I’ll be able to give you a better date when Joyce gets my book. But I’m pretty sure that was one of, one of my earlier operational flights. Yeah. Here we are. Here. Do you see? It won’t take long. You had to enter it in your logbook. You had to enter all your operational flights in red. So here we are. Daylight operation at Calais on the September the 15th ‘44. That was, yes ‘44 was daylight operation. Calais gun emplacements. Again. Gun emplacements.
GB: So that was, that would have been after the landings. D-day landings.
AL: No.
GB: Before.
AL: Evacuation this is.
GB: Oh right.
AL: Dunkirk. Not D-Day.
GB: No.
AL: D-day happened, I think, while I was at BOAC. No. This was, this was the evacuation of our troops from France and from which I’ve just received a Legion d’Honneures medal for that and that’s in the front. I got, I only got that recently. I’ve, I have rung the Association, the RAF Association to ask them how you display it but they haven’t replied. I don’t know which order you put it relative to your other medals ‘cause I’ve got a row of other medals as well but —
GB: So you and Harry Tweed are flying Lancaster bombers.
AL: Yeah.
GB: Where were your missions taking you?
AL: All over the Ruhr mainly. Well that one was France but and it was, it was our first flights actually but then we went on from daylight [Coln/Kohlen?] Stuttgart, Essen [Weskapau?] Cologne Duisburg [pause] Daylights. Sollingen. Sollingen, Koblenz, Dortmund. Daylight at Cologne. Oh. That’s where we got shot at quite a lot. Got holes [laughs]. [unclear?] and interestingly during that period we had to do, at home we had to do a fighter affiliation flight when they developed the radar and we were two of the aircraft in the Squadron were fitted with the radar. Ours was one of them and you had radar and you had the other radio beam navigation. That was where it was quite different to BOAC because BOAC was mainly stars. You didn’t have the radar etcetera which were only lease-lend Dakotas that we flew in.
GB: Yes.
AL: With BOAC.
GB: Harry, I can see there are so —
AL: Ahem.
GB: Sorry Arthur I can see there are so many missions there.
AL: Pardon?
GB: There were a lot of missions and sorties.
AL: Oh well we were hard pressed. Flying every, yes we did it very quickly. Between our first mission was in September 20th 1944 and my last one was —
JL: January.
AL: December.
JL: ’45.
AL: 29th also in ‘44.
GB: Oh right.
AL: So I remember we were on the thousand bomber raids. Do you remember there was a particular raid called the thousand bomber raid? We were part of that and —
GB: Were you going up almost every night?
AL: Went, went twice one night. Off twice. Very very pressurised. Very pressurised.
GB: Mainly from where?
AL: Mainly night time but some daytime.
GB: And mainly from which base?
AL: From Mepal.
GB: Mepal. All Mepal.
AL: All my operations were from Mepal.
GB: Right. And did you have any scary moments? Any difficult times?
AL: Oh yeah. Well most of them were.
GB: Yes. Silly question I’m sorry.
AL: As I say once we counted the holes in the aircraft from flak.
AL: Flak.
GB: But one, one difficult time in particular was nothing to do with the Germans. We went on, over and as you can see it was turning cold in late winter and we’d been over, I don’t know where it was, we’d been over somewhere. Harry was a very good pilot. He held it steady all the way through. It didn’t matter what was happening around. I I happened to look, be able to look out. I couldn’t look out often because I had to plan for the next leg and out but on one occasion I looked out ahead. Saw one of our people I knew, aeroplane shot down. Exploded in the air. Shot down. But on this particular occasion we were coming back home and we suddenly discovered one of the bombs had frozen in its hooks. It hadn’t gone and it was rolling around. I think it couldn’t have been a very big bomb. It was rolling around in our —
JL: Hold.
AB: Bomb bay. Yeah.
AL: Undercarriage
AB: Undercarriage. Yeah.
AL: In our, oh my memory goes on words.
JL: Hold.
AL: Anyway, if you’re relying on my memory you’re not on a very good thing. My memory’s not very good. Not now. Anyway, we managed to jettison it over the English Channel. So, hopefully, it was, when Harry gave the command to jettison, open the flaps, open the flaps, that’s it. Bomb doors. Open the bomb doors sorry. You don’t open the flaps, you just up and down. Opened the bomb doors I’m pretty sure he’d make sure it was fairly clear down below when he did but that was a scary time. [laughs]
GB: Were you more afraid of flak or the Luftwaffe?
AL: Pardon?
GB: Were you more afraid of flak or the Luftwaffe?
AL: Oh loads of flak. Always. Every time. You had to fly through it. And if, if you were above if you didn’t maintain the height they’d told you you’d got to do. If you went above to get out of it you were put on a court martial. Yeah. So you had to stay in that line and Harry did. He, he’d got a nerve of steel and he went straight through. He was very good. Very good you see. And none of our crew. Alan John, the bomb aimer is still alive I think. The others aren’t and he’s in New Zealand. I’ve been over there to New Zealand since. We’ve been twice actually. I’ve got relations over there too.
GB: Did you see any Messerschmitts 109s?
AL: Well I’m sure the gunners did. I didn’t see much.
GB: No.
AL: I had my head down in front of the D spar. Head down. Keep, keeping ahead of the aircraft. I always had to be ahead, ahead of the aircraft so I had my head well and truly down. I could feel it. I could hear it. But you could hear our gunners saying, ‘Over there.’ ‘What’s that?’ ‘Harry, there’s a fighter over there,’ or something like that but we had our helmets on and we could hear it. I could hear it going, all going on. Even when the flak hit the plane you could hear it but never, I couldn’t see very much.
GB: How did you know when they had dropped the string of bombs?
AL: I I gave Harry the next course and as soon as he said, ‘Bombs gone,’ Harry was off on the next course. I think I wrote it down if I remember right. I plotted it for the next course back.
GB: Did you try to fly over the sea as much as you could to get home?
AL: Over the sea?
GB: Yes.
AL: Oh no. Straight across the English channel.
GB: Right.
AL: No. The most time we spent crossing over the sea was a different occasion because on a different occasion we laid mines in the Baltic and we had to go out at sea level over over Norway and Sweden. That direction. And they used to fire. I don’t know what happened but we were way up by the time we got there but right across the sea we were at sea level and we went into the Baltic and this is where we used radar. Towns came up as blobs and I, the bomb aimer was supposed to navigate me by the screen where these blobs were but he didn’t. I had to do it myself. And the other thing I had to do was aim for a headland in the Baltic on a certain course. Give Harry a certain course after we’d taken a fix as to where we were. After a certain course head for a headland and then I had to tell him every so many seconds or, yeah, seconds to drop a mine and at the same time I had to take a photograph of the screen to, so that when I got back they knew.
AB: A record.
AL: Exactly where they were dropped. So I had to do all this. It was, it was pressurised I can tell you. You were always ahead of the aircraft. You had to be ahead of the aircraft. You had to tell them what to do at what time and which heading.
GB: Everything depended on you.
AL: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Very much so. And take this photograph at the same time. Click with the camera.
GB: Did you —
AL: I never found out. I could never, the trouble was getting back to base they never showed you what your efforts were and I never did find out but I only concluded that when they recommended me for BOAC that I must have did ok because they must have [recorded?] and that was when they gave me my, I was at Ossington training for my First Class Navigation Certificate when I received my commission.
GB: Right.
AL: Notification.
GB: Yes.
AL: It wasn’t until after I was in BOAC that I got the [laughs]. I was then called a navigation officer by BOAC. I’d been that since I’d passed out.
GB: Yes. What was the social life like at Mepal?
AL: Well only when we went to the rear gunner’s home. There was no social life otherwise. I remember sleeping in barrack er in Nissen huts but social life I can’t remember.
GB: When you were waiting to fly were you all in one hut or one place?
AL: No. No. You had to go to, [pause] you had to go up into the airfield and you were briefed. That was the only time when you came together. The crew were more or less together but with other people you were briefed and then that was fairly short. And the same when you got back. You were debriefed. When you got back from an operation you were debriefed. Yes. I can’t —
GB: Did you, did you meet up with your crew socially apart from –?
AL: After, after the war.
GB: Yes. Right.
AL: Yes. Post war. One of them got married. Oh Harry got married I think, to a Welsh lady, Harry did and they came over to that. We got together. Mostly most of the crew got together. I don’t think the upper gunner. He seemed to be a loner for some reason after the war. During the war he wasn’t a loner because he used to hang around with the rest of the crew but I know I did dance but if they went to a dance I used to stay at the rear gunner’s home. He’d got, they’d got children so I used to entertain the kids. The kids.
GB: So —
AL: But they’re all, they’ve all passed on.
GB: Did you always fly in the same planes or did your plane change –?
AL: No. We finished up in C for Charlie.
GB: Right.
AL: But I think they had a different plane now and again but it was always A Squadron. But I can’t, I can’t remember what other. It’s got the name of the aircraft in my logbook here.
He was a Flight Sergeant Tweed then. I think he became a, he got his commission and went on. Lancaster 3 AAJ. That was the first flight. Lancaster C DKE. That’s an F. It may an E. No, it’s an F I think. I flew in different aircraft but C we finished quite a few. C for Charlie. I do remember that. CCC. I went on B there. It must have been B. But that was B. The photograph is B Squadron.
GB: Was it cold in the plane?
AL: Yes. But we wore goon suits as they called them. Goon suits. Silk gloves. Yes. Well, well protected. Excuse me. We were well protected. Yes, it was cold and it was noisy. That’s, that’s a product of the noisy plane both in RAF and BOAC because BOAC were Dakotas. Lease lend Dakotas and they were noisy too.
GB: So —
AL: Nothing like flying today.
GB: No. So in 1944 you’d been flying on Lancasters.
AL: Yeah.
GB: And then how did the link happen to BOAC?
AL: How did what?
GB: What made you join BOAC?
AL: Oh [laughs] well they came. After that tour, the last tour, they called me into the flight office and said, ‘We’ve got a posting. Would you, would you like it?’ I said, ‘What is it?’ And they said, ‘Well it’s a, it’s for a private airline trying to bring back to life again.’ It was British Airways before I think. Or something.
AB: BEA wasn’t it?
AL: But it was BOAC by the time I joined. British Overseas Aircraft and they had a, so, well I said, ‘I’ve never heard of them but I’ll try it.’ [laughs] So they said. ‘No. You’ll have to go on a course to get a First Class Navigators Certificate.’ I thought, ‘Ok.’ I was on that for a short time. It’s all on there. All my BOAC flights as well.
GB: What? You were flying Dakotas. Where did you go? Was it commercial?
AL: Cairo a lot. West Coast of Africa down to Accra. Down to Lagos. Used to swap planes at Accra or Lagos and then fly across Africa to, to, what’s in North Africa. North Africa and Sudan. And then, I know I’ve been in locust plagues and things when we got there. And we even got a basket, a laundry basket upstairs which I brought back from on the way to Cairo. But then on, [pause] I was twenty years doing that and towards the end of that year I was down in Cairo and the day before we were getting married on June the 22nd which is coming up. The day before we were getting married I was down in Malta and got stuck there because with Dakotas we didn’t have pressurised aircraft so you couldn’t get over the Alps back home and I was wondering whether I was going to get back in time but we did. The weather lifted and I got back home the day before.
JL: I know you did.
GB: And that was 1945.
JL: Six.
GB: Oh ‘46
AL: Yeah. I brought back bananas and things and oranges for our wedding which they’d never had. Yeah so —
GB: The first civil aircraft to land at Sweden.
AL: I was demobbed after that.
GB: He didn’t mention that.
AL: It was after that that I was demobbed. After we were married I did one flight didn’t I?
JL: Yeah.
AL: One flight from Bristol. I flew. I had to stay, with BOAC I had to stay at home in Quorn and they would send a telegram saying please report for duty. So I had to go down the day before. I had, I had to rent a room in Bristol. I hadn’t permanently near Clifton Bridge and I had to go back there and they go to Bristol airfield and where there was a plane which took us. The plane. A Dakota I think, I think it was which took us down to Bournemouth. We picked up our passengers at Bournemouth. Now one of the flights I went on, you’ve probably never heard of this but there was a Lancastrian built. It was a Lancaster with only twelve seats. It was a VIP plane. A VIP Lancaster with portholes down the sides and I had to navigate that from, from Bournemouth to Karachi and we only had one stop. Tel Aviv. We, every other flight we did we had to keep putting down to get fuel. Refuel, with Dakotas but with this Lancastrian it did Tel Aviv and then Karachi. Quite, quite a long and the same coming back so it was quite a long quite a long flight.
GB: When you —
AL: And it never flew again. I don’t think. The Lancastrian.
GB: When you were flying the Dakotas were you mainly flying passengers or cargo or both?
AL: Passengers.
GB: Passengers.
AL: Always passengers. Any cargo, not much cargo. We got cargo, a bit of cargo coming back with a few bits and pieces the crew had picked up on the way back.
JL: What about your first trip to Sweden. When you went you were the first civilian airline to land at Sweden at Ahlberg.
GB: You flew to Sweden.
JL: Oh you say it.
GB: You flew to Sweden I believe with BOAC.
AL: Yes. Yes. I did. Yeah. With BOAC. A flight to Sweden. I’ve got a picture in there of the plane. It had to land at Aalborg with a forced landing.
GB: Oh right.
AL: And Aalborg in Denmark and we were the first civil plane to land in Denmark after the war.
GB: Wow.
AL: But it was the forced landing. We had to. So we stayed in Aalborg for two or three days. For a few days while waiting for a part to be flown from England.
GB: When you were demobbed did you want to stay in flying or navigating?
AL: Well BOAC asked me. I said, ‘Well I’ve got a profession to go back to because I’m a road transport designer.’ And I finished up designing motor cars at Rootes. Rootes [Humber] Hllman, Sunbeam-Talbot and finished up with Peugeot. I’m still, they’re still, I’ve a Peugeot pension [laughs]. Anyway, no they asked me would I stay on and I said well I’ve a profession to go to and I’m fed up with living out of a suitcase. So I said, ‘I want to get my feet back down on the ground,’ and so came back to Longwall Green.
JL: Bristol.
AL: Coachworks designing luxury buses and tradesmen’s vehicles that you know, that went around carrying goods around.
GB: Yes. So you lived in —
AL: That was all [timber?] work but then I came, I got fed up with the manager at that place eventually. The chap at the top was very nice but the manager he had a foul mouth and I couldn’t put up with him so I said, ‘I’m leaving.’ I told him, ‘I’m leaving,’ and I came back to Leicester to build aluminium built, with, what’s the name?
JL: Castles.
AL: Castles. Castles. Yes. They, they did display vehicles. They did display vehicles. Fire engines I designed, which I designed for them. Again I wasn’t really too happy there and I got worried about Rootes. They were on a better pay than I was at Rootes Group for and I was there for many years.
GB: Gosh.
AL: Well until I retired.
GB: Yes.
AL: It wasn’t Rootes. They sold that to the Chrysler.
GB: That’s right.
AL: I was with Chrysler.
GB: Yes.
AL: Designing for them. I went over to America. Did take a big full size layout of one of the cars that we, that we draughted, put on to draught. The models took [points off ?] big clay models and gave it to us. We drafted it and then I took this big roll, big as a car and took it over to Detroit and then they sold out to Peugeot Citroen and I finished up at Peugeot Citroen. That’s where, I retired in France.
GB: Oh. Did you live in France at all?
AL: For a year. Yes. I used to fly back home. When I say I lived there. Not, not really but I I was —
GB: You worked.
AL: In France for a year and Joyce came over for my retirement party at St Germaine.
GB: Lovely. Good. So, when, Arthur when you think back to flying those Lancaster, flying in those Lancasters do you have any particular highlight memories? Any really difficult missions?
AL: Well only the one with the, (pause) I took it in my stride really. I didn’t, as I say I had my head most of the time.
GB: Yes.
AL: But the time that we’d got the bomb rolling around underneath. That was a nasty nasty moment but I was trying to think. At Mepal I think I knew a family or two in Mepal. We used to go out but mainly to the one, mainly, which was a little way away mainly with the rear gunner’s home.
GB: Yes.
AL: Yeah.
GB: And 75 Squadron then had the New Zealand connection. And that, did that continue?
AL: It’s always. That’s how I always knew it.
GB: Yes.
AL: I always knew it as 75NZ.
GB: Right.
AL: I never knew at as no other.
GB: Yes.
AL: It was always 75NZ.
GB: Yes. And were you proud to be a member of that Squadron?
JL: I don’t think you thought about it.
AL: Well as much as I was proud to be of the RAF.
GB: Yeah. Yeah.
AL: As a whole. [Laughs]
GB: Yes.
AL: Yes. But as I say —
JL: Just got on with it.
GB: Yeah.
AL: The only thing that I was sad about was seeing the crew that I knew fairly well shot down in front of us over one, one of the targets and I forget which target it was.
GB: Yeah.
AL: But I remember it being shot down and they didn’t return. Like a lot of the others didn’t.
GB: Yes. Well thank you very much for that Arthur.
AL: But if if —
JL: Kettle on. I’m sure you could do with a cup of tea.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Thomas Charles Arthur Long
Creator
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Gill Barnes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-11
Format
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00:57:08 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALongTCA160611
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Civilian
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Charles Arthur Long was born in Quorn, England. He was in the Home Guard and worked at Brush as a draughtsman, also gaining a Higher National Certificate from Loughborough College. He decided to join the RAF being that the only way to get out a reserved occupation. He was on the reserve for months and eventually sent to Aircraft Recruitment Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground / St John’s Wood. He was then post on to Newquay Initial Training Wing, followed by training in Canada in Halifax and Moncton. Recollects Winston Churchill at the First Quebec Conference, and provides details of training on a bombing and gunnery course as a Royal Canadian Air Force observer. Badge was presented by Princess Julianna of the Netherlands since many Dutchmen where on the course, and Sarah Churchill also attended the ceremony. Upon returning to Great Britain, he retrained as navigator at RAF Halfpenny Green, Lincolnshire and crewed up with 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal on Lancasters. He went on operations over Germany dropping propaganda leaflets, bombing Calais gun emplacements, Kohlen, Stuttgart, Essen, Cologne, Duisburg, Solingen, Koblenz and Dortmund. Discusses social life and keeping in touch with the crew post war, mine laying, anti-aircraft damage, jettisoning stuck bomb over the English Channel, flying conditions and military ethos. After the last tour, he was offered the chance of being a navigator in the BOAC British Overseas Airways Corporation, flying to various locations in Europe, Africa and Middle East including a VIP Lancastrian trip. He got married, demobilised in 1946, and went to work a motor cars designers with Rootes, Castles, Hillman, Sunbeam-Talbot, Peugeot and Chrysler
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
Canada
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia--Halifax
New Brunswick--Moncton
Germany
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Germany--Köhlen
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Essen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Koblenz
Germany--Dortmund
England--Newquay
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1942
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
75 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
civil defence
crewing up
demobilisation
Home Guard
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancastrian
military ethos
military service conditions
mine laying
navigator
observer
propaganda
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Mepal
recruitment
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/621/9641/AParryHP180723.2.mp3
13b5afae366c9f607dbb315a66c06f2a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Parry, Hugh
Hugh Pryce Parry
H P Parry
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Parry, HP
Description
An account of the resource
20 items. Two oral history interviews with Hugh Parry (b. 1925, 2220054 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs and newspaper cuttings. Hugh Parry flew operations as an air gunner with 75 Squadron and then as a photographer and air gunner with 90 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Hugh Parry and catalogued by Stuart Bennett.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GT: This is Monday the 23rd of July 2018 and I’m at the home of Mr Hugh Price Parry known as Hugh, born 25 err 22nd of May 1925 in North Shropshire, England. Hugh joined the RAF in December 1943 at the age of nineteen during training to become a chartered accountant. Hugh was also in the Air Training Corps and volunteered for the RAF as an air gunner as there was a shortage of gunners at that time. Hugh became the mid-upper gunner of the Paddy Goode crew from February to June 1945 completing thirteen war ops and one Manna drop on 75 New Zealand Squadron, RAF from Mepal. After VE Day Hugh was posted to 90 Squadron, then to RAF accounts, demobbing in May 1947. Hugh, thank you for allowing me to interview you in your home in Abingdon, Oxfordshire for the IBCC Archives. Please tell me why and how you joined the RAF in 1943.
HP: I was a member of the Air Training Corps because there was a general feeling that there was a bit more excitement about becoming, about becoming air crew. There was no real publicity about the potential casualty rate. There was a glamour which attached to air crew which were, from the point of view of meeting girls was alright. And of course, it was acceptable there was good, always good publicity. At the time my friends were just all slightly older than I. They all wanted to be PNB, pilot, navigator, bomb aimer as a general recruit. But when they went to volunteer and they got to the Aircrew Reception Centre they were all put on deferred service for at least eighteen months and in practice none of them actually got to serve on the squadron. When I went to the Aircrew Reception Centre knowing this I found that they were still accepting air gunners so I volunteered for air crew as an air gunner. All air crew of course being, being volunteers and as a result I got on to a squadron and became operational and looked down on the, my friends who were called up and all served as aircraftsman second class, general duties.
GT: When abouts did you begin your training then, Hugh?
HP: Well, the Reception Centre was in London and from there moved to Bridlington on the east coast of Yorkshire for Initial Training Wing in January which was a little chilly. And I’m not referring to the very mild curries which they had there. From there to Bridgnorth for Elementary Air Training School. Thereafter Pembrey, Number 1 Air Gunnery School which was, which was on the south coast of Wales, flanking the Bristol Channel. From there passed out as air gunner at the end of June 1944.
GT: And did you have an option of where to go? Fighter. Bomber Command.
HP: No. No. You were posted.
GT: And you then were sent down to Westcott with 11 OTU. So, how long did you spend there and where did you crew up?
HP: Well, you crewed up either on the first or second day. All the, all the trades, aircrew trades were put in the hangar. The hangar. And they evolved in to crews. There was no compulsion. No discipline. It just happened. And I think we were at Westcott which was an OTU Operational Training Unit until about the end of September. We then went to a holding unit on the, and we were training then on Wellingtons. We then went up to a holding unit because of the, we had to be posted somewhere until we went to Woolfox Lodge which was a Heavy Conversion Unit where we moved over from Wellingtons on to Lancasters.
GT: So, so you didn’t, you didn’t go in to Stirlings at all? You just went straight over to Lancasters.
HP: No. No. We went in to, in to real aircraft.
GT: So, your holding base in your logbook states Stradishall. So, you were at number 3 ACS in Stradishall for most of October ’44.
HP: Yes. That was just, that was just a holding unit where nothing happened.
GT: Nothing happened. Ok. So, so moving on to the Lancaster at 1651 OCU you spent pretty much that of November December there at Woolfox Lodge. So, the differences between the Wellington must have been huge between the types.
HP: Yes. The only thing which, which was the same was the rear turret. Otherwise, all other facilities were different. Including the position of the elsan.
GT: What position in the crew did you take up as a gunner?
HP: I was, when we got to the Lancaster I was mid-upper because there was just marginally more room there because I was six feet tall officially and the reason that was, that was official was when I was actually measured for my medical I made sure I made sure I wore baggy trousers.
GT: So, during your training the Gunnery Schools did they have moving targets? Were you flying in different aircraft for that?
HP: We were flying in Ansons at, at the air gunner, at the Air Gunner’s School and taking as the airborne targets drogues, drogues towed by Miles Masters. Or they might have been Miles Magisters as well but certainly Miles Masters and we were doing our air to air firing based on on those. We were also obviously doing ground firing and that was relatively simple and the, the drogues were towed behind the aircraft. There were four trainee air gunners in each Anson. Each supposed to be firing two hundred and fifty rounds out of the thousand which was in, in the ammunition tank. Of the, the two hundred and fifty of the rounds at a time had dyed, dye on the tips of the bullets so that you could count the holes going through and see what the dye mark was on them. The fourth one obviously didn’t need any dye because it just made a hole. So when the drogue was dropped on, on the runway they, it was taken back to the armoury section, laid out on a long table and the number of holes caused by each dye was counted and then divided by two [pause] because there was a hole where it went in and a hole where it came out. You may find that a little subtle.
GT: Interesting. Ok, so, and you were a good shot?
HP: Enough. Enough to get through and qualify.
GT: And what was the qualification grade for gunner?
HP: I don’t know.
GT: Well, were any chopped along the way that weren’t any good.
HP: Oh yes. You, you could you could get chopped for all sorts of reasons, you know. Inadequate theory, inadequate practice, indiscipline, incompatibility. Any particular reason. You weren’t necessarily explained to you.
GT: That’s something perhaps many don’t understand is that everyone sees you in a turret shooting guns but you actually went through quite a bit of paperwork and classroom training to become a gunner. So what kind of things did they teach you in Gunnery School?
HP: Well, you, you had to recognise very early on that you never fired at the target. You fired at where you had worked out the target would be by the time your bullet reached it and this was a question of relative speed, deflection, angle and so forth. That was the fundamental skill which you needed as an air gunner. Where to point the gun so that the bullet would get to the target when the target reached the bullet.
GT: The gun you used, the 303.
HP: 303.
GT: Explain about that gun for us and its capabilities.
HP: Yes. Well, the Browning 303 fired at the rate of twenty rounds a second which was quite fast and quite loud. And the ammunition tanks on for the mid-upper turret on the Lancaster were for a thousand rounds for each gun. Four, in the rear turret there were four of the same guns and the ammunition tanks were up just about the centre of gravity of the plane. And the bullet tracks came down through tracks along the side of the fuselage, four tracks and entered the turret from underneath the turret and fed up to the guns so there were two thousand five hundred rounds for each of those. Now, you couldn’t use anything like that for the mid-upper because the mid-upper would circulate through three hundred and sixty degrees or keep turning in any one direction. With the rear turret it would turn a total of a hundred and eighty degrees.
GT: And we’re talking about the Lancaster aircraft in that situation.
HP: I’m talking about the turrets. Not the aircraft.
GT: The [pause] in that situation for you did you have a choice because you did your tour as a mid-upper. Did you have a choice in being either or? Or a front gunner perhaps?
HP: No. No. The bomb aimer was, occupied the front turret. So as far as the other two turrets goes the two gunners sorted it out between themselves.
GT: Did you ever swap? Do the —
HP: Only once.
GT: And, and that was enough?
HP: Oh yes. Quite sufficient thank you.
GT: We were talking about how hearing loss was a huge thing throughout many of the crews during the war.
HP: Sorry?
GT: The hearing loss that was —
HP: Yeah.
GT: That happened.
HP: Yeah.
GT: That the aircrew had. So you were a that point —
HP: Well, I think, the mid-upper air gunner was in the worst position because he was sitting between the two guns and very close behind four thirteen hundred horsepower unsilenced engines. So, there was, there was a lot of noise and I think we all suffered that to some extent and fortunately with hearing aids I’ve been able to cope with the rest of my life. My hearing is not much worse now than it was fifty years, fifty years ago. Sixty years ago. There was an initial loss.
GT: Many also suffered, suffered tinnitus as well.
HP: Tinnitus you mean. Yes. I didn’t. Which was a repeating of the noise within the ears.
GT: That’s good. That’s good. So, with your gunnery then did anybody especially during your training did they miss the, miss the odd drogue and get the other aircraft? Was, was there any accidental shooting of friendly aircraft?
HP: No, because your fellow Air Force people were in that. Not all the training was with guns and live ammunition. A very considerable amount was with cameras. Camera guns. And in the camera guns the film would be processed and from that you were were able to be assessed on the probability that you would have hit the target with live ammunition. And with that of course the target aircraft could be manoeuvring a lot more violently than when it was towing a drogue. So the camera gun was quite a tool to be training air gunners.
GT: The, the role of, of the mid-upper gunner and tail gunner during a lot of sorties was to warn the skipper of, about, of aircraft and the like. Did you ever have to tell the skipper to do a corkscrew or take evasive action at all?
HP: Once. When we were [pause] no I’d better start. We were practically all on daylight operations to synthetic oil plants because at that far end of the war the Germans were running out of fuel for their aircraft and for their tanks and this was because we were doing daylight in flying in formation with, in a V formation with the leader of each V of three being equipped with special radar which was GH. Not Gee. GH. And you bombed, the leading aircraft in the V had that when he opened his bomb doors the other two did and when he dropped his bombs the other two did. And we would be going after small targets with precision. Not, not area bombing as such.
GT: Or other people call it carpet bombing I suppose.
HP: The [pause] the town and city devastation bombing that was, that was largely done on night time raids over large target areas where high explosive bombs would be dropped first followed by incendiary bombs which would set light to the debris caused by the high explosives. We were mainly with that. But the one time which I remember was that I remember looking up because as a mid-upper gunner you didn’t sort of gaze around in a random manner you did a regular pattern of search of all the way around in a circular direction and up to a hundred and eighty degrees vertically down as a routine. And I remember once seeing a group of aircraft above us open their bomb doors so my immediate reaction was, ‘Mid-upper to skipper, dive port, dive port.’ Which we did, and I was told by the navigator who looked out that some bombs missed our wing tip by about ten feet. I was not allowed to buy a drink that night.
GT: You saved your crew and your aircraft. Awesome.
HP: That was what you were asking for —
GT: Yeah. It certainly was. So, from your Heavy Conversion Unit we’ve established that you moved to 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mepal in February of 1945 and throughout the next few months you completed thirteen daylight war operations. Did any one of those trips stand out to you? That, was anything special or anything that was of memory to you?
HP: No. There was, they were fairly routine because they were to, as I say daylight trips to synthetic oil plants and on those we didn’t have a great deal of trouble with American, sorry with German fighters because we had close escort of Mustangs and high escorts of Spitfires. Other than of course they moved away when we were over the target area so we got the full benefit of flak.
GT: Was flak extremely heavy during the day?
HP: Yes. The Germans knew that they had to well, very well defend these synthetic oil plants because they were totally dependent on it for fuel for their, for their Army and their Air Forces.
GT: Your bomb loads. Did, did you have anything to do with the loads that are carried and did you know what the aircraft were carrying each day?
HP: No. No. Normally speaking we, we would carry twenty, twenty two thousand pounds. Say five tonnes for each aircraft and the bombs would be dropped from roughly twenty, twenty two thousand feet.
GT: As a gunner were you responsible for the cleaning of your guns and the mounting of them or was that the armourer’s responsibility?
HP: You seldom fired of them but if you did you, you could leave five shillings which was the best part of a day’s pay for the armourer to clean up but you did make sure yourself that the guns were coupled up directly with the reflector gunsight so that it did reconcile where the bullets would be going for the sight and the barrels.
GT: And they were removed after every sortie and taken back to the armoury?
HP: No.
GT: Was there normal?
HP: No. There was, there was, if they hadn’t been fired there was no need to remove them and they were seldom fired for the reasons I’ve said. The fighter escort. We got, we got largely the benefit of the flak over the target areas because the fighters knowing that there would be no German fighters over the flak ridden areas could, could keep on the outskirts as well quite properly and be ready for us, to escort us back.
GT: Did you see any of the German jet fighters at all?
HP: Just remember seeing the vapour trail of the odd one going very quickly up through the formation and then back down through. I think it was the ME 163. I don’t really remember. It was a few years ago. But not, not regularly.
GT: You then did an Operation Manna food drop.
HP: Yes.
GT: And were you given any heads up on that? Training or, and how did it eventuate for you?
HP: No. This was on a Sunday. We were, we were told at a briefing that the Germans had stopped trains delivering food to the, to the Dutch and that twenty thousand Dutch had died of starvation and a vast number more were suffering from malnutrition. The food we delivered was mounted in jute sacks. There weren’t any panniers, panniers or special equipment available on, on the first few trips. The bomb doors were nearly closed but enough room in between to let these sacks in and resting on the bomb doors which were closed of course when the total load was there. The food was dried. Dried eggs, dried milk, flour and essential ingredients like that and we went in at a designated route. The route, the place we dropped was on a racecourse just outside Den Haag or the Hague as, as it’s called. I think the dropping height was between three and five hundred feet. The Dutch knew we were coming, this, because the Red Cross had been involved in this. It was towards the end of the war and the Germans were getting a little worried about war crimes. And on the route which we took there were Dutch people out in the streets waving flags and table cloths. I mean, it was, it was a wonderful occasion because we were dropping something which was food which would keep people alive and not bombs which would kill people.
GT: The Dutch were always very thankful for for the food and they’ve always commemorated.
HP: Yes.
GT: The Operation Manna. For the likes of what you chaps did for that.
HP: Yeah.
GT: Were you told to empty your guns of ammunition?
HP: No.
GT: Did you, you went over there fully loaded.
HP: Yeah. But, but you weren’t expecting to have to fire but just in case because we weren’t told that the Germans had agreed to this. It had been agreed through and with the Red Cross so we were ready in case there were any attacks and there weren’t. I think the subsequent trips that they didn’t bother really much with guns because the trips had become fairly routine.
GT: Did you go in single file or did you go in as a squadron or a gaggle?
HP: As a gaggle. On, on, on a designated route at a designated height.
GT: And with, with the war closing to a finish was there much talked about on the squadron as to what would happen once the war had finished? What you were going to be doing.
HP: No. We had no idea what we would be doing because it was the war in Europe which was finishing. There were wars elsewhere.
GT: Who, who was your commanding officer of 75 Squadron at that time you were there?
HP: Wing Commander Baigent. Or it might have been Group Captain Baigent. B A I G E N T. He was a very ancient warrior. I think he was, he might have been twenty four, twenty five.
GT: And what did the crew think? What did all the crews think of Wing Commander Baigent? Cyril Baigent.
HP: Oh, he was, he was a leader who was respected and when, he spoke obviously at every aircrew briefing and he had everybody’s respect.
GT: Did, did he get to see all the crews at a time or was the CO kind of out in the background?
HP: No. No. When we first went there I think this may show in the logbook and I think it could have been on our first, first trip his crew was on leave and I think he acted as our pilot. Have a look at our first trip. He acted as our pilot. Now anybody who would do that with a raw sprog crew gets all the respect he deserves.
GT: 22nd of February 1945 war operation to Osterfeld. Five hours. Daylight raid. He, he went on to be one of the potential leading officers of the Royal New Zealand Air Force but he died of cancer in the early 50s so it was —
HP: Yes. I think he died in the early 50s or [pause] Yeah. But you know various things happened over the target area with flak. One experience will always be with me. If you were in the mid-upper you didn’t get, I think I’ve said this, you didn’t look around in a random manner you did a regular search of the sky. And on one particular trip I was looking up and being rather tall my head was pressed hard against the Perspex. At the back of my head there was a loud bang. I looked around and where my head had been there was a hole about the size of, about an inch across. So I immediately felt the back of my head, put my hand in front of me. There was no blood. Looked back. There was the hole. The only possible explanation for that and no blood was that I was dead. And it was some, some moments before I realised that what had happened was a piece of shrapnel had ricocheted off. You don’t, you don’t forget an experience like that.
GT: That was from an ack ack shell exploding nearby was it?
HP: Yeah. But you know normally speaking you would come, you would come back with a number of holes in the fuselage. We came back one time with two engines gone on one side and on that particular day the North Sea seemed about as wide as the Pacific which was [pause] it was not a healthy occupation.
[pause]
GT: With your time at Mepal, Mepal was a big station. It obviously had three flights of —
HP: It only had one squadron.
GT: One squadron but three flights.
HP: Yeah.
GT: So you would have had something like thirty plus aircraft. So, so what things around Mepal did you guys get up to during your off time? Pubs? Dances?
HP: Well, Ely was the best place to get to. It was about ten, twelve possibly miles to to the east there and they had restaurants, pubs. And generally speaking there were so many aerodromes within East Anglia, and this was 3 Group that you were made pretty welcome where every you were because the local inhabitants knew what you were up to, had an idea of of casualty rates so there was, there was friendly stuff everywhere. And that’s what it was. Leave was compulsory every six weeks which was a terrible thing to happen. To have to happen.
GT: One of the major things that some of the aircrew faced was lack of moral fibre or LMF. Was that something you were aware of or that was talked of amongst the aircrew?
HP: All aircrew were volunteers and you could not be charged with a refusal to fly as such. What, what happened was that the refusal stimulated the impression of a rubber stamp with the letters LMF on all your documents and this was a mark of shame. Lack of moral fibre. But you could not, you could not be charged. You could be sent to a disciplinary school which I think was based somewhere up in Yorkshire and have a fairly tough time but you could not be charged with a refusal to fly. So LMF was that. But you had the other symptom which was known as being flak happy where perhaps the odd member of a crew in the mess would sit on his own in an armchair just not communicating and he would be referred probably to the medical officer and he would be taken off flying on medical grounds. That was different from LMF.
GT: Did you get a chance to see them before they left or they just disappeared and another person replaced them?
HP: They disappeared very quickly. As I say it was not what, nobody wanted it to be contagious.
GT: Your, your skipper, you joined the crew with was Flight Sergeant Goode. Paddy Goode, you say. And the first part of February he was a flight sergeant and early in March he was, he was commissioned to flying officer.
HP: No. At that, at that time an instruction went out, presumably from the Air Ministry that all pilots in squadrons in Bomber Command should be, should be commissioned. So, at that stage instead of being the seven of us in the same hut and in the same mess he got sent off to be in a different hut and a different mess. And neither he nor we were over enthusiastic about it but but we recognised that it was a, well a recognition of his duties as the pilot and skipper of the, of the crew. And this was something we had to tolerate.
GT: You got on already with all of your crew really well?
HP: Yes. We were all, all a bit different but we all trusted each other which was, that was the part that was essential. We had —
GT: Was it something that was taught, told to you, or it just gelled when you all got together?
HP: Well, it happened and it had to happen because if you became an untrusted member of the crew. No. It was not acceptable.
GT: And all of your crew were British.
HP: Yes.
GT: And did you follow any of them up during, after the war?
HP: No. No. After I, we got posted to 90 Squadron as a crew after the war in Europe finished and we understood although we were never told officially that in September we would be sent out with Tiger Force to Okinawa to take part in the Japanese war. Fortunately, two atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and we never had to go. And when those bombs were dropped and the news came across on the wireless in the mess a cheer went up.
GT: With 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mepal once VE day occurred there was pretty much the mass posting of all others than New Zealanders, and 75 New Zealand Squadron moved from Mepal to Spilsby. So your whole crew, being British you were shifted to 90 Squadron. What was your role then and what did you achieve from, from VE Day onwards with 90? Because your whole crew moved, didn’t it?
HP: Yeah.
GT: Yeah.
HP: Oh, it was just another, another squadron. We were, we were new in there. It had been an operational squadron. The other aircrews knew that we had been on operations so there was no antagonism or anything else like that. You just went and you fitted in. No problem.
GT: What was the role of 90 Squadron for that time then? What did you do specifically for them?
HP: After [pause] after the war one of its principal duties was taking part in Operation Review which was a photographic survey of the whole of Europe taken with two large cameras and lasting many many hours.
GT: 90 Squadron at that time was at RAF Tuddenham.
HP: Yes.
GT: And where was —
HP: Which was Suffolk.
GT: In Suffolk. Ok. So, with the cameras what did you have to do to achieve the shots they asked of you?
HP: Well, you, you had to make sure that they were correctly positioned in regard to the drift of the aircraft as, because the line of the photographs had to be in a direct line. Not the curving line of that. And the other thing you had to do was to reflect the speed of the aircraft either in one direction or the other according to the timing of the exposure.
GT: Did you review your photographs after or were they just taken away and —
HP: They were taken. They were taken away and developed and very often they would be posted as a whole series of them in a very large room which showed whether there were any gaps or not.
GT: Did you have to go back and do some that you’d missed?
HP: That had to be done. If there were, if there were gaps.
GT: Was that 90 squadron’s sole role at that time or were there other squadrons doing the same thing?
HP: I don’t know.
GT: The use of the camera when you got to 90 Squadron, was that something that you’d done before or you had to be taught it?
HP: No. No. If you have a look in the logbook you will see that just after the posting to 90 Squadron I think there is a reference to training for use of the camera. [pause] Yes.
GT: Yeah.
HP: You found it.
GT: Yeah. Yeah. Ok. So once, now was the camera hard mounted in to the floor of the Lancaster? Did they cut a hole and then hard mount the camera or just hold it?
HP: In in the floor of a Lancaster there was space for a downward firing gun which would be mounted on a bar over this and it was that particular area where the bar was and the cameras were fitted down there.
GT: Were there any ventral gunners on 75 Squadron during ops that you know of?
HP: Any?
GT: Ventral gun position and a under, under gunner they called them.
HP: No. I don’t remember. I think that the, you either had a ventral one which had a .5 Browning mounted on the bar like that or alternatively it was where the HTS radar device was mounted and H2S radar devices were not popular with the aircrew because the Germans could home on the signals.
GT: Making you rather vulnerable. 75 Squadron did have a under belly gunner on, one on each flight. I’ve interviewed a chap who was one of those gunners and he was just dropped off and said, ‘You’re in it.’ So I was wondering if you’d seen that and that was only a modification made to one or two aircraft. So on 90 Squadron the whole fleet or the whole squadron —
HP: Yeah.
GT: Had that modification.
HP: Yeah. Well, all the Lancasters had the hole. Sometimes it was with a ventral turret. Sometimes it was with a .5 machine gun just mounted on there. Sometimes it was H2S. Most of the time it was just blanked off.
GT: Ok. Going back to your firing 303 rounds compared to fifty cal rounds. So half inch versus three point three.
HP: I never fired much. I never really fired any .5s.
GT: That must have been a bigger lead with a bigger bullet heading off to the enemy. Yeah. The target.
HP: Yeah, but yeah, and of course, with more noise and more kick but a slower rate of fire.
GT: So, once you’d completed your flying and review camera work on 90 Squadron in October 1945 that was the last of your flying time was that right?
HP: It was. Yes.
GT: Where did they post you from there?
HP: Because of my occupation before going in to the Air Force I I was posted to a school for RAF accounts equipment and pay because that was my civilian trade. And that’s what I did for the rest of my time until I was demobbed.
GT: Had you completed your accountant programme there before the war?
HP: No. No. You had five years articles. I started at sixteen. I would have finished by the time I was twenty one but war service of course interrupted that. As a concession for war service you could serve as an article clerk three years instead of five and you could get consideration in the final examination on two subjects or exemption from the intermediate. I went for exemption on the intermediate knowing that I would need to do the finals.
GT: And you completed your accountancy. Your chartered accountancy.
HP: Oh yes.
GT: And that gave you your future.
HP: That was my trade for life.
GT: And what companies did you work for for that? Is it a whole myriad or one or two you stood out for?
HP: Well, yes. Having, having been articled in a small country town I then worked in, in London, in the City of London for three years. And in 1952, by this time we were married and had a child my wife and I we went and lived in Calcutta, Dacca, Chittagong for five, for five years and came back and got a job with a construction material company which was taken over with various successes but that lasted until I retired at the age of sixty.
GT: And where did you meet your wife? During the wartime or was it post-war?
HP: We met, we met in April 1945. Yeah, and got married in October 1946 and, can you stop a moment?
[recording paused]
HP: We met in April. April 1945 and we got on well together but by about the end of May 1945 she gave me a photograph of herself which in those days was, didn’t necessarily represent a commitment but meant she wouldn’t really mind seeing you again and that photograph I have now and it is in my bedroom and it overlooks my bed. And that is it and you can see it for yourself.
GT: That is wonderful. It is special. Thank you for showing me. And her name?
HP: Elaine.
GT: Elaine.
HP: E L A I N E. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And how many children did you have between you?
HP: We had three. Three children of whom you’ve met. We had three children. We have seven grandchildren and so far only seven great grandchildren. But no doubt there will be more.
GT: Fascinating. And you retired from your accountancy work and did you do anything special after that?
HP: No. Well, I was involved in all sorts of odd things you know in relation to sport, fisheries and in relation, and in relation to work. I was on the London and South East Regional Planning Committee you know for about sort of five years after I retired and various other oddments, you know. Yeah. But I was on the National Fisheries Committee and that was a very interesting one. You may have heard of a rugby player called Gareth Edwards who was in the Welsh team in the early ‘70s. I was the representative of Thames Water Fisheries and he of the South Wales Fisheries and at the meetings we used to sit next, next to each other. Gareth was a lovely man.
GT: Fascinating. And you retired here to Abingdon. How long have you been living here?
HP: We [pause] we lived in Abingdon from 1959 when we came back from India and stayed in the same house until my wife died in 1999. And I now live in this block of retirement flats alone and solitary. Yeah. But with the, with the family fortunately daughter and two sons all within ten miles.
GT: Fabulous support.
HP: Yes.
GT: In 2012 there was a special Memorial unveiled in London.
HP: It was. The Bomber Command Memorial and I was fortunate enough to get an invitation to that through the Bomber Command Association.
GT: And that’s where you and I met for the first time.
HP: Yes.
GT: You were in a crowd and you met Denise Boneham from 75 UK Association.
HP: Yeah.
GT: And she came down and she said, ‘We’ve found another 75 Squadron chap.’
HP: Yeah.
GT: That was wonderful and there was a photograph of you and I and for years I wondered who you were. So it was, it was fabulous to meet up with you again Hugh a couple of years ago. So, so you were also a member of the UK 75 Squadron Association for a while. Was that right?
HP: I was but that finished years ago.
GT: They, they moved from being totally for the veteran side to to become Friends of the 75 Squadron UK Association so, so you’re still a member.
HP: Yes.
GT: But that’s fair dos to you.
HP: I have no connection with it. I don’t receive anything from them, from them —
GT: Well —
HP: And you know time goes past.
GT: Well, I know you’re on the mailing list so obviously it’s the mailman is not delivering the right parcel here. But so, so if you have a look at your wartime service, the volunteer side of things it’s something that you decided you had to do. You wanted to serve your king and country. Do you feel that you did your bit?
HP: Yes. I think taking a risk did because you didn’t know totally what would be involved when you did it. It was, it was not pleasant being operational but as operational aircrew there was a certain caché about it and you know being around with a brevet and so forth you had strange privileges. As I say, leave every six months, sorry every six weeks and possibly once a year when you went on leave in addition to your normal pay you got five shillings a day from the Nuffield fund. And since your pay was eight shillings a day the extra five shillings was a substantial addition. Particularly when beer was less than a shilling a pint. So yes, there was a certain glamour attached as well, as well as the dangers. There were privileges but you had to, you had physical and mental stress. The mental stress obviously from that but the physical stress from, from the cold and the discomfort and general cramp of not being able to move for five or six hours perhaps. Yeah.
GT: When you did your review flying and you were flying across Germany and France to across all the bombing sites did you concentrate on your job or did you notice what had been happening?
HP: No. This was a review. A geographical review. A photographic review of the whole of Europe to get a photographic map of the whole of Europe. Anything to do with bombing areas that would be done by sort of Bomber Command doing that for the purpose of getting damages but there wasn’t a great deal of difference between damages at Hamburg and damages at Dresden, you know. You got buildings destroyed and you could, it didn’t take much to imagine the very unpleasant consequences for that. One occasion which did stick in my mind is in April ’45 there was a publication of photographs of the concentration camp at Belsen where there were literally piles of corpses and Jewish survivors, very thin and skeletal and seeing those photographs certainly as far as I was concerned and I think as far as many others were concerned removed any thought of guilt about having dropped bombs on German civilians. It was not a pleasant experience.
GT: Bomber Harris was your initial or ultimate boss.
HP: He was.
GT: Could he have done it any other way?
HP: No.
[pause]
GT: Given the equipment you were given and the tasks you undertook.
HP: Don’t forget that quite apart from the area, area bombings and B) the ones we were after which were specialised on the synthetic oil plants he also had the precision bombings of, if you like the viaducts with the ten thousand pound bombs and the bouncing bomb against the dams. They were part of his job as well to look after those. But the bulk of the people and the aircraft involved were more or less mass destruction of one sort or another but he did have the specialised ones as well.
GT: What was the talk of Bomber Harris after the war?
HP: Oh, he —
GT: Did he deserve accolades or peerage?
HP: Yes. He took the blame for every German civilian killed. He was the one who said yes and it, there were a whole lot of British people who looked after that. They saw the bomb damage in say Dresden and Hamburg which was a lot greater than the bomb damage of Liverpool and London. But it was proportionate to the time when the bombing was done because the Germans were unable to continue their bombing raids. They would have been very happy to do so. Instead of having live aircraft with live people on they had the V weapons. The V-1 and the, and the V-2 which were totally indiscriminate.
GT: There’s obviously in the last ten years been much talk of a campaign medal for those of Bomber Command. The men that survived and did not survive.
HP: Yes.
GT: What is your opinion and thoughts on that?
HP: Well, yes. That there should be recognition because of the high proportion of casualties. Let me just say the numbers involved for the record. I’m sure you got it everywhere else. Bomber Command were all volunteers. A hundred and twenty thousand went in to Bomber Command. Of those fifty five thousand were killed, ten thousand taken prisoner and seven thousand wounded. So it was not a healthy occupation and there was good cause and good reason for some sort of recognition. Yes, a medal was campaigned for but you have to remember now that we now have a clasp to fit on to our medals which says Bomber Command which was the recognition of the Bomber Command contribution. It specifically says so on it. Bomber Command. Now a medal you know would be another way of doing it but it is, it is recognition.
GT: Is there anything else that you can think of that would be of value for those people who are going to listen to this recording in the future that you might have thought of that could be of value?
HP: Well, the trouble is as you become less young it’s not too easy to recall things. In fact, I do have a problem with this. Sometimes I forget I’ve got amnesia [pause] And that might be a good note to finish on.
GT: Hugh, it’s, it’s been marvellous to have a chat with you. Thank you very much for talking with me on the interview. I certainly appreciate your company and it’s great to drive all this way today to see you and I’ll go back to New Zealand very soon but it’s been a pleasure to know you and thank you very much. I’ll give you the last word, Hugh.
[pause]
HP: Ok. Thank you very much.
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Title
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Interview with Hugh Parry. Two
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AParryHP180723
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Glen Turner
Date
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2018-07-23
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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Pending review
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Description
An account of the resource
Hugh Parry was a member of his local ATC and was awaiting the time when he would be able to volunteer for the RAF. His slightly older friends had qualified to train as pilots, navigators or bomb aimers, but because of a backlog of trades they were given deferred entry. Hugh saw this and decided to train as a gunner. Hugh took the position of mid-upper because of his height and being more comfortable. He was posted to 75 Squadron, RAF Mepal. On one operation as Hugh was scanning the sky he looked upward and saw a Lancaster was about to drop its bombs and they were right in its path. He was able to warn the skipper to take evasive action and the bombs narrowly missed their aircraft. On another occasion when Hugh was scanning the sky he heard a bang behind his head. There was a hole in the Perspex where his head had been.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1943
1944
1945
Format
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00:53:40 audio recording
Contributor
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Julie Williams
11 OTU
1651 HCU
75 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Mepal
RAF Westcott
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/729/10727/ABrumwellR180630.1.mp3
3b31d9599626b0664dc6f6093437c2c3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Brumwell, Ralph
R Brumwell
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ralph Brumwell DFC (1920 - 2021, 127140 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a pilot with 218 and 75 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-06-30
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Brumwell, R
Transcribed audio recording
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GT: This is Saturday the 30th of June 2018 and I am at the home of Mr Ralph Brumwell, DFC born 24 July 1920 in Dorset, England and I'm in his lovely home in Ponteland, in Newcastle upon Tyne. Ralph joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve in 1939 and after training and a brief time on a [next] squadron joined 75 New Zealand Squadron in May 1944. By September Ralph had completed his tour and was awarded the DFC. Ralph, thank you for having me visit you in your lovely home and I’d very much like you to please tell us a little bit about your RAF time, where you were born and then what made you join the RAF?
RB: Well, in the autumn of 1938 Chamberlain, the Prime Minister went to meet Hitler and he came back with his piece of paper, waving to the crowds, “Peace in our time.” But a little while after that everybody got a thing, a piece of paper through the door inviting them to join, asking them to join a voluntary service of some sort because I think they realised that the war was going to come. I mean Churchill did anyway and I think they realised war was going to come anyway and they wanted to build up the reserve services. I lived, I lived in Poole in Dorset or near Poole which is on a lovely harbour and I was very keen on yachting and boating and I wanted to join the Navy. So I applied to join the RNVR, Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve but it came back that, unfortunately, you live too far away from a VR Centre, an RNVR Centre. The nearest one is Portsmouth which you can’t [laughs] it’s too far for you to travel for lectures twice a week in the evening. So I thought, well, what do I do now? The next [laughs], the next thing I thought we obviously didn't want to join the Army because we thought in those days the Army was going to be like the First World War with awful trench warfare and that sort of thing. So, I was there. Didn't, didn’t want to join any Army units so I decided to join the RAF. Try the RAF and I got accepted to join the RAFVR at the Southampton centre. It was still thirty miles away from my home but they accepted me. I had to get my father’s permission of course because I was only eighteen years of age so he had to sign that he agreed to this. And so then I joined. I joined that and I used to go, we had to go two, two nights a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays for two hours of lectures at the RAF’s RAFVR Centre at Southampton and then add on when you, when you got, I’d start, I could start flying because they liked to start you to fly when you could go for a fortnight. So we had to get a fortnights holiday from your job. I worked at the Westminster Bank in those days and I got a fortnights holiday and went to the RAFVR station at Hamble and started to fly. During the fortnight they started me flying and I got solo and did a few hours there and then, then of course on September the 1st war broke out so I was called up immediately to, to the RAF.
GT: So you’d already had a few hours under, and your time —
RB: I had about twenty hours I think when war broke out.
GT: That's solo time or —
RB: No. Altogether.
GT: Altogether. Ok.
RB: Altogether. That’s all. From then on [unclear] they didn't know what to do with us first of all so had a fortnight off at home. I’d packed up my civil job and gone home and they didn't know what to do with us because all the units were full up. But eventually I got a phone call to say I was posted to an ITW at St Leonards on sea and so I had to go to Southampton to, to the centre of Southampton to join the other people who were joining and we went down train to, to St. Leonards on Sea to an ITW. Initial Training Wing where we did drill and lectures and things like that on the, on the front and on the pier. And then from there I was posted to Redhill to start flying again. And I got to Redhill which was a Reserved Flying School and I started flying Magisters.
GT: Ok.
RB: And I liked, loved the Magisters which was a lovely little aeroplane to fly. And I was there for, oh ‘til [pause] ‘til 1940, the spring of 1940, summer of 1940 because every, all the units seemed to be full up. All the FTSs, Final Training Schools were full up and then from there I went to Brize Norton as an FTS and I got my wings.
GT: Wow. That's a long time to wait. Sure. So, once you had your wings where did they send you from there?
RB: My wings and I went to an, I got my wings at Brize Norton then I went to Harwell on a, on a, what do you call it? Oh dear.
GT: A Conversion Unit was it?
RB: No. Yeah. What do you call it?
GT: And what aircraft were you flying at Harwell?
RB: A Wellington.
GT: And was that easy to work from?
RB: An OTW. OTW.
GT: OTW.
RB: Operational Training Wing.
GT: Oh yeah.
RB: Flying Wellingtons. And then from there I went, I went to the squadron. On 218 Squadron.
GT: So, the Wellingtons were, were pretty new pretty much for the beginning of the war were they difficult?
RB: Well, they were —
GT: Big and heavy to fly at that time for you guys or —
RB: Easy?
GT: Yeah?
RB: I wouldn't call them exactly easy but they weren’t a tricky aeroplane I didn't think.
GT: And how many hours did you work there?
RB: We had Wellington 1s, Wellington 1Cs and when of course I went to the squadron at 218 on Wellingtons which was on, we were on Wellington 1Cs.
GT: And where was 218 based at that time?
RB: That was based at Marham.
GT: And was that the only squadron there? Were you just the only ones or —
RB: No. There was another squadron. I can't think what number it was. I can’t think what the other one was. Was it 105 or, something like that, I think.
GT: So, earlier you were telling me of a mishap that happened on, when you were on 218. So can you tell me a little bit about that?
RB: Well, I did about four or five ops and then we were coming back from, we’d been to Dusseldorf. I was the second pilot, that’s all because we had two pilots in those days on Bomber Command. Two pilots and I was the second pilot so I was, just used to stand beside the captain on the, there was a seat there but I used to just usually stand beside him. Unfortunately, we got we got shot down by a Junkers 88 over, over our base as we came back circling to land and we landed in this, there was snow on the ground fortunately the captain could see the hedgerows and he managed to put it down very well in a grass field.
GT: Any of the crew hurt?
RB: Yes. The front. Well, the aircraft caught fire immediately as soon as we hit the ground of course and unfortunately the front gunner was jammed, was stuck in his front turret and he couldn't get out. And all the rest of the crew who were fit went out to try and get him out of the turret, turn the turret around but it wouldn't turn you see. It was jammed. Jammed. But we eventually when he was taken to hospital eventually in Kings Lynn and died there unfortunately a few days later.
GT: Ok.
RB: All the rest of the crew were uninjured apart from the rear gunner just sprained his ankle, I think.
GT: And what about yourself?
RB: Yeah. But, I broke my arm on this. I had a compound fracture on this arm which put me in hospital in Ely.
GT: And how long were you at the hospital?
RB: Pardon?
GT: How long were you in the hospital at Ely for?
RB: I think a couple of months. Something like that. A couple of months. Then I got, once I was an outpatient, walking patient they put, there was another walk-in hospital in Littleport which I got sent there because I was a walking patient.
GT: Did your arm mend ok? Did it take long?
RB: Pardon?
GT: Did your elbow, did your arm, did it mend ok for you to keep flying?
RB: Yes. It mended. I had an excellent, they had excellent doctors of course in the RAF and I had an excellent orthopaedic surgeon who, who set it and set it beautifully and it mended beautifully except that I couldn't straighten it for a long time. It was two or three years before I could really straighten it so they put me on light aircraft non-operational only. I had to go to, for an RAF medical and they, they put me light aircraft only. Non-operational. So that's when I went for, eventually they posted me after hospital I went back to Marham and I did flare path duties for a month or so and then they posted me two Newmarket on Gunnery Training Flight and I was flying Lysanders there towing, towing targets to train gunners for Bomber Command.
GT: And that was about what 1941 ’42 was it?
RB: That was the end of ’41. Yeah.
GT: Ok.
RB: Yeah. I was in that unit for about two years before they, I eventually got fit, fully fit. This arm became, got straight again eventually and they put me back operational so and then that's when I went to to train on four engine bombers.
GT: Ah, four engines. Now, so you did —
RB: Stirlings.
GT: Conversion was on to Stirlings. Yeah.
RB: Going on to Stirlings. Yeah.
GT: And what OCU were you on for that?
RB: Then from there I went to the Lanc Finishing School.
GT: Which was at Feltwell.
RB: At Feltwell. Lanc Finishing School. And then from there of course on to the squadron. To 75 at Mepal.
GT: So, your conversion from Stirlings to Lancasters was only a week normally.
RB: Two weeks.
GT: Two weeks.
RB: Two weeks. You had a week’s lectures.
GT: Yeah.
RB: Ground lectures dealing, learning, learning about the aeroplane and lectures, engineering lectures and that sort of thing. And then a week’s flying.
GT: Was the conversion easy? The difference of aircraft.
RB: Well, it came easy after. After a Stirling because the Stirling was a bit of an old brute to fly. It used to swing a lot you know. Had a nasty swing on landing and that sort of thing.
GT: So, you’d only —
RB: And I found, I found that the Lancaster was an absolute treat after. After, a Stirling was like flying a big Tiger Moth.
GT: Yeah. Had you, you had done several operations already in Wellingtons on 218.
RB: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And did you do any operations on the Stirling?
RB: No. No. No. No.
GT: Ok. So it had been —
RB: It was purely, purely a conversion flight.
GT: Purely conversion. Ok.
RB: Heavy Conversion. Heavy Conversion Unit.
GT: Right. So, in, in around about May 1944 then you joined 75 New Zealand Squadron.
RB: Yeah.
GT: And, and they at that time were at Newmarket.
RB: No, Mepal.
GT: They had gone to Mepal by then.
RB: They had gone to Mepal by then. Yeah.
GT: Alright.
RB: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And, and you had your own crew then. When did you meet up with your crew then because you were —
RB: Well, normally people who went from OTUs to, to, went to OTUs, picked up their crews at their OTUs didn't they? They all had a, used to gather together in a, in a big hall somewhere or something and picked their own. Picked their own crew up. They sort of, well, I don't know how they did it but it was a rather haphazard thing but my, my I didn't have that chance because I was just a pilot. I think the crew, my crew were some were sort of left over. I don't understand how I got them but [laughs] but anyway I got crewed up with a full crew apart from the flight engineer. No. I did have the flight engineer as well, of course. But —
GT: Was that at Westcott or Harwell? Where did you do that? Your crewing up.
RB: My crewing was at Westcott.
GT: You did it at Westcott.
RB: Westcott OTU. Yeah. Yeah. Westcott.
GT: So, there were a lot of New Zealanders around at the time was there?
RB: Yeah. Yeah. There were there. Yeah. Yeah. Westcott and, Westcott and Oakley I went to. Oakley was, which was a satellite of Westcott and I was back on, I was on Wellingtons again.
GT: Alright. So, so can you tell me your crew members? Can you tell me who your crew were?
RB: My crew were. Yes.
GT: Yeah.
RB: There was, they were all, they were all sergeants or flight sergeants. Flight sergeant [pause] what was his name? Pip. Pip. I can't remember the name.
GT: That's alright. Yeah. Max Ruane.
RB: Buzz was Buzz Busfield.
GT: Yeah.
RB: Louie. Louie, no Armitage. Pip Armitage was my wireless operator. Louis Arthur was the rear gunner. And Max. Max.
GT: Ruane.
RB: Ruane.
GT: Yeah.
RB: Max Ruane was the bomb aimer. That’s right. And of course, we didn’t, we didn't get the mid-upper gunner until we got to the Heavy Conversion Unit. ‘Til we got to Stirlings.
GT: And your flight engineer too.
RB: And the flight engineer. That's right. The flight engineer joined us. He was a, he was a Lancastrian fellow. Lad. Nelson his name was.
GT: And you all got on really well.
RB: We all got on very well. Yes. We did. We all got along very well, I think.
GT: Excellent.
RB: A very happy crew I think.
GT: And you were all senior NCOs.
RB: Yes. No. I was, I’d been commissioned by then. I was commissioned at Newmarket when I was on the gunnery training flight. I got my commission. I was a flying officer by that time. All the rest were NCOs.
GT: So, was it true that the officers went one way and the senior NCOs went the other once you got out of the aircraft?
RB: Oh no.
GT: No? You still went together.
RB: We had to go to our own messes of course to have our meal. We couldn’t, we had to go to our own messes but, and we all went together to the debriefing of course after, after an operation. And then after that we went to the mess to, to have our breakfast which was always bacon and egg. And then back to bed.
GT: Did you all sleep in the same hut?
RB: Oh no.
GT: No. Was it officers in one —
RB: Officers had separate. Separate Nissen huts.
GT: Ok. So, so when you started operations again on 75 New Zealand squadron at Mepal what were the targets you were given?
RB: The targets?
GT: Were they easy? Were they —
RB: Well, some were. Some weren’t. Some was, I was very lucky I think because I got a lot towards that time, you know after D-Day I was [pause] Actually, I was on leave over D-Day which was [laughs] I was on leave with Max. Max. With Max Ruane. I’d taken him home for a couple of days.
GT: Yeah.
RB: And we were walking. I remember walking up at Bournemouth up the cliffside on the east side of Bournemouth and looking up the Solent. It was full of ships. Absolutely thousands of ships. And I said to Max and my father, my father was with us, I said, ‘There's something on here. There's something happening here. Look at this. Look at all these ships.’ And of course, it was the night before D-Day.
GT: D-Day. Wow.
RB: Of course, they couldn't stop my, couldn’t stop our leave because otherwise people, we would have known something was fishy coming up and we had to, it was so secret that we couldn't, they couldn't stop our leave but we had to have a weeks leave every six weeks.
GT: Because 75 squadron —
RB: On operations.
GT: Did at least two sets of ops on D-Day itself. So, one early morning and one later in the day.
RB: I did, I don’t know.
GT: So you weren’t there then.
RB: Whether they operated or not because as I say I was on leave so I don't know whether they operated or not.
GT: The other crew must have.
RB: Yeah.
GT: So, was Mepal a nice base? Did you have good pubs around the place?
RB: Oh yes. Yes. Some nice people. I met some. We met, we met a very nice farmer and his wife and family who lived in Sutton which is a local, another local village near Maple and they used to have us down for supper and that sort of thing and it was very nice. Very nice friendly people.
GT: What about the pubs?
RB: In fact, I kept up. I kept up a friendship with them right until they died. Way after, way after the war. I kept this farmer at [unclear] we used to go and stay with them and everything. Took my family there and everything. They were wonderful to us.
GT: What about the pubs? Which ones do you remember?
RB: Oh, what was the one called? We had a favourite one.
GT: Chequers?
RB: No. No. Not the Chequers.
GT: The Three Pickerels?
RB: No [laughs] you know them do you? No, the other one was down the other way. What the heck was it called? Oh dear. I can’t remember.
GT: That’s alright. It’ll come to you. So with the church on the hill there was that one it, was a bit like Lincoln with their Cathedral? Was that something you homed in on to get home when you were flying in because that had a tall tower didn’t it? Was that —
RB: Flying in from —
GT: When you were landing at Mepal.
RB: Yeah. Well, we used to see Ely Cathedral, of course. We used to fly over Ely Cathedral.
GT: That was your marker.
RB: That was our marker. Yeah. But there was another airfield in the same, very close. Witchford. Witchford. Which their drem, drem system sort of interlocked with ours and several of our squadron people landed at Witchford by mistake.
GT: That was 115 Squadron.
RB: That was 115. That's right. Yeah.
GT: So, now, 115 had a few aircraft shot down with aircraft waiting over them. Pretty much like you did.
RB: Did they?
GT: With 218.
RB: Did they?
GT: I think it was a Hornisse 410 that shot some Lancasters down. Did that ever happen at Mepal at all with you guys?
RB: No. I don’t know. It never happened. We never got any shot down over base. No. Never happened over base.
GT: You were lucky then. What about any accidents at the time?
RB: Pardon?
GT: Any accidents happen while you were flying?
RB: I don't remember any accidents at Mepal. No. One incident I do remember. I remember laying in bed one night and there was a terrific explosion and I sat up straight in bed and I thought what ever was that? I remember sitting up in bed straight. I mean I was in the same Nissen hut as Walsh, Jack Walsh and his crew and they didn't, they didn’t, I don’t think they even woke up. I don't know. Anyway, I went back, laid back, went back to sleep. The next morning we discovered that they’d left some bombs on an aircraft with the, with the delayed fuses still on and the fuses had gone. Set the aircraft, set the bombs off and blown three, three aircraft because there were three aircraft on each dispersal area. Disposal point. And so all three aircraft were written off. Three Lancs.
GT: I believe one of the guards bicycled past those aircraft minutes before it happened so —
RB: Did they?
GT: So he was really lucky. Yes.
RB: Oh, you’ve heard this. You’ve heard about this. Who told you this?
GT: Oh, there’s photographs.
RB: Eh?
GT: There’s photographs. Other 75 Squadron veterans have told me of that.
RB: Have they?
GT: Of that incident. Yeah.
RB: They were there were they?
GT: Yeah. There was one guy set up —
RB: Terrible noise.
GT: Hit his head on his hat. On his tin hat.
RB: That’s right. Yeah.
GT: He was the only injury. So it's interesting to hear that from other chaps who where there.
RB: Oh yeah.
GT: Yeah.
RB: That’s interesting.
GT: And for, for Mepal you were there during the time 75 Squadron lost its most aircraft in one night. It was seven. Seven aircraft?
RB: That's right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We’ll have to look up in that that record of mine there and it tells you when that was.
GT: That was about the middle of July so so that was a pretty tough time on the squadron I'm sure. Yeah.
RB: Yeah. That was towards the end of my tour I think that was.
GT: Can you tell me of any of the targets that you flew? Or was there any problems? Ack ack or night fighters.
RB: One of them. One of them, I can’t remember one of them was when we had a lot of trouble with night fighters dropping their, dropping flares on us from above. Dropping flares. Flares on us from above but I'm afraid I used to if they had a flare coming down or thoughts like that I used to corkscrew before before they attacked. Try and catch them before they attacked us.
GT: Were you good at corkscrewing?
RB: I think so [laughs] Ask the crew.
GT: Yeah.
RB: It must have been awkward at the back for those poor blighters because I can remember, oh dear I used to put my full force on it.
GT: One veteran told me he was on the can one time when the skipper corkscrewed [laughs] You didn't do that did you?
RB: Do what?
GT: He was on the can.
RB: On the can. No. No. No. I never. I never got out of my seat during any of my operations. Even, even the long trips to Stettin which were nine hours. I never got out of my seat once. I'd rather prefer to sit there and straighten it out.
GT: Did, did you ever have the need for guns? Did the guys ever shoot their guns at all? Night fighters? Or strafing?
RB: No. No. No. No. Never. Never had. Never had to defend an aeroplane at all. No. We never got attacked by the fighter that way.
GT: Because many of the veterans —
RB: The only time, we, we were doing a daylight on a, on a buzz bomb site and I was in the, behind the leader on the left on the leaders left of course we were in formation which was asking for trouble really because the guns were getting a marvellous sight on you from their, you know their, from the radar weren’t they? And they hit my starboard outer and I had to feather it because it was, I had a flight engineer again. Nobby. Nobby Nelson his name was. Nobby was a, he said, ‘Skipper the number, number four is heating, is overheating.’ He said, ‘The temperature is going up,’ and he said, ‘Oh, it keeps still going up.’ He said, ‘Nobby, feather it. Feather it. Feather it.’ I didn't call him Nobby. I always called him engineer because you were, you were told not to. Not to call people by their Christian name on a, on a trip in case, in case you, the idea was but if one of them, say you had a strange gunner or something on board if, you know you got the wrong name so you had to call them by their, what their job was. So you’d say rear gunner. Not Louis or anything. Had to, had to call them by their, by their names.
GT: By their job. Not their nickname.
RB: Yeah. Not names.
GT: And all the way —
RB: Because otherwise you see if you’ve got some stranger on the crew it would be confusing.
GT: Did you have one particular Lancaster aircraft that was yours? Did you?
RB: Yes. M for Mother was ours for a long time. M for Mother was mine.
GT: And what, did you just ask for it? Was that the way it happened? Or —
RB: No. No. No. I didn't ask for it. It was just the way it was allotted. I didn't ask for any favours.
GT: So how old were you during that time?
RB: I was about twenty two, was it? Well, 1920. 1940. No, I was older than that wasn’t I? ’44 I started. Twenty four. Twenty three. Twenty four. Twenty three when I joined. Twenty three when I joined the squadron. Twenty four when I left.
GT: I’m just looking through your logbook, Ralph at the aircraft you flew and was it ND756 seems to feature mostly as the Lancaster you flew.
RB: Yeah. Probably.
GT: M for Mother was it?
RB: M for Mother. Yeah.
GT: Did you ever receive anti-aircraft fire during your time?
RB: Any —
GT: Ack ack.
RB: No. Oh, yes. That one. That once.
GT: Just that once with the engine.
RB: Just the once. That’s the only time I got hit with it.
GT: And no forced landings? No problem getting the aircraft back?
RB: No.
GT: Excellent.
RB: No. Not on Lancs. No.
GT: And what was your normal bombload? Was it something that you were told what you had on board or was it just loaded and you just had to drop it? There was cookies. Five hundred pounders.
RB: Yeah.
GT: Incendiaries.
RB: Yeah. Five hundred pounders. I think we carried a cookie once, once or twice. A thousand pounders. A lot of it was incendiaries of course. A lot of the load was always made up of incendiaries. We always had Window on board of course.
GT: Yeah. Whose job was it to push the Window out?
RB: The flight engineer.
GT: OK. So, I'm looking at your log book and there was trips you did to Paris. Now, were you aware of the Legion of Honour? The French awarding those that flew in operations for the freedom of France?
RB: Aware of what?
GT: Yeah. The Legion of Honour. The medal.
RB: No. No. No. No. No.
GT: Well, you've got some very interesting operations here and obviously the longest trip you did was —
RB: The Stettin one.
GT: The Stettin. Yeah.
RB: I never did a Berlin. Fortunately.
GT: Stettin you did the 29th of August 1944. [unclear] operations. Excellent. So, coming towards the end of your tour you completed thirty operations. Was that correct Ralph?
RB: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And did they, did they tell you that was coming up? That it was —
RB: No. No. I didn't know until I came back from my [pause] I was on, it was only a short one to Le Havre. Actually, I was leading the whole raid on that one. I was the leader of the whole raid. I’ve got a photo of us coming back. But it was not until I landed and then the CO came up and said you’ve finished.
GT: Now who was your CEO at the time?
RB: Leslie. Wing Commander Leslie.
GT: It was Leslie. Ok. And what flight were you in charge of? Were you A, B or C Flight?
RB: I was B. B Flight.
GT: And you led that raid. Was [pause] when you were given the task of leading the raid was that something that Leslie just pointed to you and said, ‘You’re it.’ Or was it your turn or because you were really really good?
RB: No. No. It didn’t. No. Didn't know. Didn’t know. No. I didn’t. No. He didn’t say you were the leader I don’t think. I don’t think so. I can't remember really whether they said you're leading the raid but we did two or three trips to Le Havre at that time, I think. You know. They were trying to knockout, buzz the submarine pens and that sort of thing stuff.
GT: What did you prefer? Night time or daylight raids?
RB: Oh, I preferred [laughs] it’s difficult to say. I think, I think, you know, I think night flying you felt safer in a way that daylights. We weren't convinced that you know we had aerial superiority all the time but once we knew that you know we’d got air superiority and we weren’t going to get attacked daylights were alright. They were quite nice. They were usually short rides anyway the daylight ones. The ones I did in daylight were short. I was lucky there.
GT: Did the, did you meet up with any Americans? I mean once you started doing daylight raids were your raids with the Americans? Or —
RB: No. I didn't see any Americans. No. No.
GT: And when, coming towards the end of your tour I note that you were awarded the DFC. So was that a surprise to you?
RB: It was indeed. It was a complete surprise. Yes. It was. It was. I didn't think I’d done anything special to do that. To be awarded that. I think that, I think, all I can think of they thought I had done a good tour. It wasn’t a special one. You know that I’d been particularly brave or anything.
GT: So, who was your leader who put you up for that?
RB: Hadn’t done any marvellous rescue or anything. Or bring an aircraft back on one engine or something like that. It was a surprise. Yes, it was a surprise.
RB: You always seemed to do a fair bit of work. So, who was your, your commander that would have put you up for that? Besides Leslie?
GT: I don't know whether it was Leslie or the station commander I presume.
RB: It's got to go up the chain so it would have had to have come from the squadron.
GT: The station commander I presume would put you up.
RB: I had a letter from him anyway. You’ve got a copy of it somewhere, Mark. Where is it? Have you seen it?
GT: It’s alright. We’ll have a look. So that, so that’s marvellous. So, so, now, did you receive it in the post or did you go down to London for it?
RB: No. I received it in the post because the king was ill by that time. He was, he was suffering from, what was it he had? Chest troubles, didn't he?
GT: OK.
RB: And I've got a letter from him which it came from with it to say that he was sorry he couldn't deliver it personally.
GT: Nice.
RB: I wasn't sorry about that.
GT: So, OK come to the end of your tour and that was pretty much September 1944. What happened to you from there? Did you continue with your crew? Did they send you somewhere else?
RB: No. No. I was posted to Wing as on instructor on Wellingtons and all my crew were split up in different, different stations. I don't think any of them came to Wing with me.
GT: I suggest that the New Zealanders were sent home.
RB: Different, different OTUs, I think.
GT: Ok. On the training. Yeah.
RB: We did, we did meet up to celebrate my DFC in Aylesbury. We, I got them all to come and there was a little celebration in Aylesbury to celebrate because I used to feel that I didn't deserve it any more than, they did. You know, they were the ones who really deserved the DFC. They were the ones that got me to the target and home and [pause] I don't know.
GT: There was a feeling —
RB: There was a feeling it should be shared.
GT: Yeah. That’s, that’s a very nice sentiment that’s for sure. Did you shout them a few rounds of best bitter did you?
RB: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
GT: Fabulous. Now, I see —
RB: Actually, I don't remember. Max Ruane, I don't think he drank it all. I don’t. Never went, never came to the pub with us. I don’t think he ever drank. Max. No, he didn't. And the mid-upper gunner was a very quiet lad. He was just a country, a country local. Enoch we called him. We called him Enoch. We all, we all the New Zealand fellas called him Enoch. He was a sort of tractor driver really. That was his job in the farmer’s land. Farm land lad.
GT: Well, Ralph I’m moving on through your logbook here and I’m up to May, 1945 and you've been flying Wellington's all that time.
RB: That’s right. Wellingtons again. Yeah.
GT: So that’s a huge amount of —
RB: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Aircraft time on Wellingtons you had been, you were amassing right through past VE Day even. So, once the war had finished what was, what was flying for you? What was in store for you? Did you do some more flying? Did you stay with the RAF or leave the RAF?
RB: When the war finished I went back to my job in the bank.
GT: Oh, my gosh. Down to, was it Dorset?
RB: No. I was working in Winchester.
GT: And you demobbed.
RB: I was demobbed in December. December 1944.
GT: ’45.
RB: ’45, sorry.
GT: That’s alright. Was that your choice or did the RAF not want you?
RB: My choice. My choice because I had a job to go back to and I had a mother who was in ill health and I was worried about her so I went back home.
GT: Wow. OK, so what was your flying career from there? You were telling me you went to the airlines was it, from there?
RB: Well, I went back in the RAF for a little while on a short service commission.
GT: Wellingtons again.
RB: Eh?
GT: Wellington's again I see. And then, oh and you did some Lancaster time as well at Shawbury.
RB: Oh, that was, that was, that was, that was a passenger —
GT: In Feltwell.
RB: I was training as a navigator. I did a navigation course at Shawbury.
GT: Does that come in handy for your flying training?
RB: That was an advanced nav course.
GT: Yeah. Fabulous. And for airline stuff you moved on to, what aircraft were you flying for the airlines?
RB: I joined, when I left the RAF I joined Hunting, Hunting Aerosurveys who, lovely lovely lovely firm. They were at Borehamwood. Hunting Aerosurveys. And I flew lots of little aircraft there. Percival Prince and Anson. Rapide. Austers. I did a trip with them down to the Antarctic with them on an Catalinas doing a photographic survey in the Antarctic. Just one winter season.
GT: Were you landing on the ice on the water?
RB: No. On the water.
GT: Wow.
RB: On the water. But there were, they were amphibious Catalinas. [unclear] as they called them. And we used to land on the water, put the wheels down in the water and then taxi up a beach where they put some PSP matting down on the beach and we could just taxi up the beach to a little parking area at the top where we used to refuel them. Great fun that was.
GT: And you moved into civilian passenger stuff.
RB: No. No. Then after then I left them and went into civilian passenger stuff, yeah. With BKS.
GT: And what were the kind of aircraft you were flying?
RB: BKS, and then British Airways.
GT: British Airways. What aircraft were you flying for them?
RB: I started off on Dakotas. And then the Ambassador. Airspeed Ambassador. Bristol Britannias and then Tridents. That's what I retired on. Trident's.
GT: So, was the Trident local Europe. Or did that go across to America.
RB: In Europe. No. Europe. All Europe. Short haul we called it. Short haul.
GT: Yeah.
RB: As far as we went, Warsaw was about as far as we went.
GT: And you liked that?
RB: Yeah. I liked that. I loved, I loved the Trident. Lovely aeroplane.
GT: Do —
RB: They were all nice aeroplanes.
GT: Do you know how many hours in total to you in your flying career.
RB: Altogether about eighteen thousand, I think.
GT: That’s astonishing. That’s fabulous. No accidents? No mishaps.
RB: Not civil flying. No. Not civil flying.
GT: That’s wonderful. Yeah. And did you retire officially? What year?
RB: 1980. 1980 I retired. At sixty.
GT: Wow.
RB: I had to retire then because I couldn’t [pause] I could, I could have gone on Dakotas somewhere again but you had to mind I couldn’t fly anything over that I think it was thirty thousand was the maximum you could try over the age of sixty wasn’t it?
GT: Gosh. And since your retirement you've, you’ve just been kicking up the heels.
RB: Yes, I haven’t done any flying since.
GT: Yes. So you have had two lovely daughters and a son in your personal life.
RB: That's right.
GT: And obviously they're looking after you well.
RB: Yes. They are. Yeah. They are, yes. Mark especially. Mark and Lindsay are especially looking after me.
GT: Fabulous. We have Mark here and its been fabulous for him to be able to allow me to come and talk and interview you. And for the 75 Squadron Archives we have not known of you until last year so it's been fabulous to know.
RB: Known what?
GT: We’ve not known of you.
RB: Not known of me.
GT: 75 Squadron Association both of the UK and New Zealand did not know that you were about. One of your crew Charles Busfield was a good friend of mine but sadly he died three years ago and he would always say to me he always wondered where Brum was.
RB: Did he? Yes. Nice of him.
GT: I know your nickname.
RB: Nice chap.
GT: Was Brum now.
RB: Lovely.
GT: Charles was.
RB: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And it goes to show obviously all you gentlemen are fabulous. Well, Brum if there anything else that you'd like to chinwag about feel free. I don't want to take up anymore of your valuable time but certainly public about history is of value to us to know how you fared, how you survived and I wonder d find what you search. Is there anything perhaps you remember that’s poignant of your time with Bomber Command?
RB: I can’t think of anything really.
GT: You served your King and country.
RB: Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I looked at it that way. Yes. Thank you very much anyway. Its been a long long old life hasn’t it?
GT: That’s fabulous. And your, and you next birthday how old will you be? You’re currently ninety —
RB: Ninety eight.
GT: Ninety eight. Fabulous. So, I thank you for your service and your time.
RB: Thank you.
GT: And I’ll complete our e-mail now, err interview and I know the international Bomber Command centre will certainly value your input and your story. Your history, your life and I too say thank you.
RB: What will you do with that now?
GT: The international Bomber Command Archives will register it.
RB: Will it?
GT: Yeah. And they’ll send you a letter.
RB: Oh, will they? That’s lovely. Thank you very much. Thank you then.
GT: Thank you very much Ralph.
RB: Ok. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Ralph Brumwell
Creator
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Glen Turner
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-06-30
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABrumwellR180630
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:44:48 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Ralph Brumwell volunteered for the RAF Voluntary Reserve in 1939. When war was declared he was immediately called up and was posted to 218 Squadron at RAF Marham. Returning from an operation they were shot down by an intruder Junkers 88. On landing the aeroplane immediately caught fire. The front gunner was trapped in his turret and died in hospital. Ralph injured his arm and until it healed he was placed on non-operational duties. When he returned to operational flying he was posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. After the war he flew with civilian airlines.
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Norfolk
Germany--Düsseldorf
Poland--Szczecin
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1944-08-29
1944-09
1945
218 Squadron
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
crash
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
pilot
RAF Marham
RAF Mepal
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/792/10773/ADavisAW180116.2.mp3
6f54de70999539d29257311a60350c69
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Davis, Alan William
A W Davis
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan William Davis (1922 - 2021, 425834 Royal New Zealand Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Davis, AW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: This is Tuesday the 16th of January 2018, and I am at the home of Alan William Davis, born 25 July 1922, in Rangiora, New Zealand, RNZAF wireless operator/air gunner, NZ 425834, Warrant Officer, near Amberley, Christchurch, in New Zealand. Alan joined the RNZAF in 1942. He trained in Canada and joined 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mepal, in March 1945. He completed nine operations, three Manna drops, three Exodus and several Baedeker trips, then moving to Spilsby in July for Tiger Force training. Alan returned after war’s cessation and, to New Zealand, in December of 1945. Alan thank you for welcoming me into your home. Can you give me a little bit of your memories of why you wanted to join the Air Force and where you did your training?
AD: Well mainly I think I had the choice of either the Army or the Air Force, I decided to go in the Air Force, but I also did three months in the Army, beforehand.
GT: Where did you join up and where did you do your training in New Zealand?
AD: Went up to Ohakea for a start, in the Air Force Defence Unit, and then we went to Rotorua, to learn wireless, Morse Code and so forth. Then unfortunately I had to have my tonsils out and I didn’t go with the group that I was supposed to, to Canada, I didn’t go till three months later. So I only ever saw one of the original group I was with, in England.
GT: Whereabouts did you do your training in Canada?
AD: Calgary and then we went to Mossbank, for gunnery.
GT: So you did a mixture of the wireless operator and gunnery training, and effectively you -
AD: Yes. The Bolingbrokes and such like.
GT: Became a wireless operator. What was the Bolingbroke like?
AD: Oh, they weren’t bad, course everything was covered in snow then. It was quite interesting, I was quite good at shooting.
GT: Excellent. Did you get excellent?
AD: Well I come third out of about four hundred with competition with all different weapons, machine guns and revolvers and some others.
GT: And then once you’d completed your training, you sailed across the Atlantic to England. Eventful? Did you, any German submarines around?
AD: No, the boat went on its own, it wasn’t in a convoy and I was on the rocket guns. What I was supposed to do I don’t know, [chuckle] but they got me on those and we arrived. It was Isle de France, the boat we went on. Don’t know what happened to it later on, I think it burnt, caught fire in the harbour somewhere.
GT: And that was a luxurious cruise ship, wasn’t it. When you arrived in England they put you on to training units and you crewed up, that was -
AD: No, they didn’t, we went down to Brighton, and was there for a while and then they shipped us up to the North East coast of England, I can’t just remember the place, because D-Day was, getting ready for that. When we come back, everyone, and we crewed up and went to Westcott and Oakley and Bottesford for conversion.
GT: Yep. Your log book here has you at 11 OTU in the July and August, September of 1944. Can you remember when you crewed up? How did you meet up with your skipper and your other?
AD: Oh, we were just lining up there and the captain was sort of, the skipper was more or less picking the chaps he wanted. We had about one, two, three, four; started from the original one, the other three, the flight engineer, the bomb aimer - we were a bit hard on bomb aimers - ended up four of ‘em, and the mid upper gunner, he was changed.
GT: I see you did all your training on Wellington aircraft here, and your final tally and summary at Oakley, Westcott and 11 OTU all together, a total of eighty seven hours there. So from there you moved on to your Heavy Conversion Unit, so can you tell us a little bit about your movement to Lancasters from there?
AD: Yes. The first time we went up in Lancaster with the instructor, I looked out the left hand side and I saw two engines stopped. I looked out the other side and there was another one stopped: was flying on one engine! Saying don’t be worried, it was, still fly on one engine! Bit nervous for a start. [Chuckle]
GT: The pilot was stopping an engine for?
AD: Yes, just more or less showing our pilot that the plane was quite safe on one engine.
GT: And that was at Bottesford, 1668 HCW, HCU RAF Bottesford. And you were there from the beginning of December ’44 until the end of February ’45.
AD: Yeah. About six weeks longer than we should have been because bomb aimer trouble, one didn’t return.
GT: He went away on leave and didn’t come back.
AD: No. Waited round for weeks, they gave us a chap who’d already done a tour and he absolutely had the DT’s. He was shaking and hard to understand so after a while they took him off, gave us another one, he was quite good and then he got wounded on our fifth bombing trip, had to replace him.
GT: Gosh. From your HCU did you have a choice of where you were going to go? What squadron?
AD: No, they just, I can’t remember, I think we just went to 75.
GT: And your first flight, and first indeed operation, was on the 6th of March,1945.
AD: Wing Commander [indecipherable].
GT: Wing Commander [indecipherable] was your skipper, as wireless op, you finished and did there all the trips as a wireless op I see. So your first war op was the oil refineries at Salzbergen. Any trips of yours eventful were they?
AD: Yes. The fifth one where the bomb aimer was wounded, we lost, we had a bit of problems with the engine, wouldn’t hold, the inside left engine wouldn’t hold its revs. We went to briefing and the flight engineer said we’d take the, the engineer in charge or something said we’d take the spare aircraft. And when they finished briefing they said well they changed all the plugs on the original plane on the offending engine, so we took it. After we got over the English Channel a bit it started to misbehave, I thought was going to jump off the wing it was jumping around that much. Was misfiring so we had to feather it and then we had a discussion amongst the crew whether we’d drop our bombs and go back home or carry on, so we all agreed to carry on, but of course had to find our own way to the target, cause we couldn’t keep up with the others.
GT: It was successful in the end?
AD: [Indecipherable] Of course we got shot up, we saw three of our own planes shot down, we didn’t realise they were our squadron, till after we got home. One of the crews shared our hut. Some of them parachuted, pilot and the flight engineer they were down, watched it go all the way. Wasn’t on fire, it wasn’t smoking, it was just going like that, all the way down.
GT: Weaving from side to side.
AD: Went down. Splash of flame. Counted them as they jumped, there was five of them got out. There was one of them got there ready to jump and realised he had his parachute.
GT: What was the normal procedure if the crew was lost or missing? Did someone come in and collect all their belongings?
AD: Yes, it happened to us twice. The other crew, they crashed in training at Bottesford, and we heard them talking on the intercom, you know, like the what’you call it? The?
GT: Control tower?
AD: Control Tower, yeah. Evidently he wasn’t, the pilot wasn’t too good at night vision; he was trying to land too high. They told him to go round again. We got in and landed and were standing out on the runway waiting for the truck, saw this, saw this great flash of flame about three mile away, then the boom! When we got back to our hut the service police were there getting all their belongings.
GT: Just a training flight, too. So you completed nine war ops in total. Was any one of them outstanding in your mind?
AD: Just that one where we got shot up.
GT: What were you shot up by?
AD: Anti aircraft. Crack! Crack! Boy!
GT: You remember it.
AD: I remember it, getting closer and closer, you could hear them. When we went there we didn’t think we’d get through there were that many puffs of smoke about our height, there’d be be an odd one or two, all wee bit higher and off a bit, but boy, they were, they were thick.
GT: So you also carried out, and were part of, Operation Manna and were you briefed on what that was all about and what was to happen when you got there?
AD: The food dropping? We probably were but I can’t remember anything about it, really. Just except the flying there.
GT: And you were told that the Germans wouldn’t be shooting at you at all?
AD: Well, you don’t want take any risk, we’re supposed to come in at certain heights and get out soon as we dropped it, no buggering around, but we went down to Italy, I’ll tell you about that. Lucky we’re here!
GT: Oh well tell us about this trip, the trip to Italy, which one was that?
AD: [Laugh] No. That was after the war!
GT: Okay, so the Operation Manna stuff, you were told later on that it was to save the starving Dutch people.
AD Yes, we probably knew from the beginning, yes. Of course a lot of the country was flooded: the Germans opened the dykes and that. We’d see these dykes going along and just dirty water covering all over, see people walking along the banks.
GT: You predominantly did day sorties and I see you did one night.
AD: We did a pre run of it.
GT: What was the difference for you? As a wireless operator, no difference between day and night, did it matter?
AD: Well night was a bit creepy, see a few things going past your window. Night time, cause day time have a good look.
GT: Time to get out the way. Did you have any aircraft above you, that could have dropped a bomb through you or anything?
AD: No, the strange thing about those two planes just out from us, cause what happened, the, when we couldn’t keep up with the squadron, we just went, because DH bombing we just went straight to the target and evidently the others, they were a bit ahead of their time, so they did a dog leg and they come in like that, we were here and couldn’t actually see their letters, see what was going on, one just dropped his bombs, beautiful line! How the hell he got them in line, you know, just the little one, big cookie on top, and the next thing they disappeared and the plane just completely blew to pieces, just like confetti. And then just a short while afterwards, another one, the engine dropped out of. The engineer was [indecipherable] I remember calling out the rest of them and saying the propeller was still going round, suppose they hadn’t used up the fuel yet, then the wing come off and down he went, and then shortly afterwards that other one started going like that and they were jumping out of it.
GT: And you said they were all 75 Squadron.
AD: Yeah. Three of them. That book I’ve got there shows that the planes above dropped [indecipherable] there dropped the bombs must of went off when got hit by a shell or what, cause bombs, they’ll explode just dropped out of a bomb bay on the ground! Real disaster one place there, three people, blew the plane to pieces and about nine others were destroyed.
GT: Was this at Mepal?
AD: No, no another aerodrome.
GT: You’d been told about it?
AD: No, read about it recent.
GT: It certainly happened. Now, you also managed to do some prisoner repatriation.
AD: Yes, we did four of those.
GT: Guys were pretty pleased to see you, weren’t they.
AD: Yeah, Juvencourt I thought, I actually bought a map in Paris when we were there this last time, so I could find out where Juvencourt was, I just thought it was not far inland, but it’s quite a far way, but I can’t find the map.
GT: Short way by aircraft, isn’t it. Just a point of note, the supply dropping sorties, your aircraft did, your crew did: one was Rotterdam and two was The Hague. And then from there you did a mixture of Juvencourt to Tangmere, and also the Baedekers, the post mortems, and that bit of Army co-op bit of variation. What was the Baedekers about?
AD: Oh, they used to go up the Ruhr valley, take the Air Ministry staff and that, most of them looked out the window to start then a bit seasick [chuckle] and then flight engineer used to carry a tin, treacle tin and he called it the tin-rin-tin-shitin. Remember, I don’t know whether you remember just about the wartime there was a thing on the radio about Rintin this wonder dog, that’s how he got the name and he was busy passing that between the different people. [laugh]
GT: Crazy, well your last time on 75 New Zealand Squadron was pretty much the end of July. Your total hours by day were over twenty two hours there, so you did a fair bit towards the end there, especially when there were so many crews vying for flying wasn’t there, must have had so many there, and obviously the war in Europe had finished so you were then shifted to Spilsby.
AD: Well we had to volunteer, an all New Zealand Squadron.
GT: British, Australians and Canadians left.
AD: Yep. Mac MacDonald, Flight Lieutenant.
GT: So you volunteered for that; you were asked directly?
AD: Yes, volunteered for it.
GT: Okay, so your first flight, Lancaster-wise, from Spilsby, 3rd of August, mixture of cross country and formation flying and you also managed a couple of flights here, three at least, in the new Lincolns, the white Lincolns, 75 New Zealand Squadron had three delivered to them by the time VJ Day came around so, they were taking them out to the Asian theatre. What was the Lincolns like compared to the Lancasters?
AD: Well, it was quite longer wingspan, wings, when it was flying about like that, when it was [indecipherable] it was the Lancaster that stayed [indecipherable].
GT: Was the wireless equipment upgraded for the Lincoln?
AD: Nah, I think it was much the same.
GT: Didn’t affect you much between the two types of aircraft.
AD: I think we were the last ones to fly, 75 Squadron in England. [Indecipherable] and us, we went down to farewell the Troop ship.
GT: The Andes?
AD: Andes. Actually it’s in one of those things there: we’re the bottom one.
GT: You’re the second plane in that picture?
AD: If I hadn’t have gone with our crew I would have gone with [indecipherable] because he asked me to be his wireless operator, but unfortunately we went to Berlin and the same thing happened: our crews went. So I went with our crew.
GT: So that was your last flight was 23rd September 1945 in the Lincoln, and it was AA-A, based Southampton, that was for the Andes overflight. But I see further up here just before that, on the 19th of September you talked about the base to Bari in Italy trip.
AD: Nearly ended up in disaster!
GT: So what was that about?
AD: Well, we saw this [indecipherable] farmer ploughing with two horses, so dived on them, I can see the old farmer now, shaking his fist, and he was hanging on to the reins, and the horses went faster and faster and finally they bolted. He went along low flying in the countryside, big high tension lines there and he was having a discussion with the flight engineer and he saying well we’ll go over these or will we go under and last moment he pulled up and hit one of the wires. Didn’t believe us for a start, I saw it, cause I saw the inflight and the rear gunner said yes, you’ve cut them. But, so then they started wondering what the hell they were going to tell the engineering staff because the propeller would have a mark on it. Sure enough, when we landed there was quite a gouge out of one propeller blade it the long bit. Lucky it wasn’t the big heavy cables, was the lighter ones we hit.
GT: Brought you down.
AD: It would have brought us down.
GT: Well, so that pretty much is, was the end of your flying of World War Two there.
AD: I think that was the last flight of 75 Squadron in England.
GT: It would have been.
AD: Almost certain it was.
GT: 23rd of September 1945.
AD: We left the next day I think. We broke up the next day or something.
GT: You left everything sitting at Spilsby.
AD: Pardon?
GT: Left all the aircraft sitting around at Spilsby.
AD: Yes, well, shame, specially all those herring gutted Lancasters they used to carry those twenty two thousand pound bombs. One place, I think it was Spilsby, there was quite a few of them there.
GT: Grand Slams.
AD: Yeah. All they were real odd looking cause they had no bomb doors, they just sort of come up and went along and down.
GT: You guys weren’t flying those.
AD: No.
GT: They were just sitting there.
AD: Yep.
GT: 100 Squadron, 207 Squadron were flying from there. The Spilsby Monument, Memorial, has a mention of an armament crew that were blown up at the bomb dump there. Did that happen when you were there? But, so how did you get back to New Zealand then if the Andes had already gone? Did they put you on another ship?
AD: Yeah, Montcalm, there’s a photo down the bedroom of it. It did a sort of odd course, it brought quite a few British soldiers out to Suez and then it went back to Taranto in Italy, I thought it unloaded them there, or did something, pick some others up and then come back to Suez and then went through the canal, you know, picked up quite a few New Zealand soldiers on the other side.
GT: And when you got back to New Zealand did you demob straight away or you on the Reserve?
AD: Yes, we just went off, well I went on leave. Reserve for several years.
GT: You weren’t called up then?
AD: No, didn’t get called up.
GT: And you’ve been a farmer all your life, is that right?
AD: Actually I declined any assistance and filled in the form on the ship there, and then one of my, brother-in-law said you bloody fool fella, so I applied and I went to about four or five farms and finally found this place.
GT: How many acres did you have in the end?
AD: Five, it was five hundred and forty five. Another chap on, he went away on the ship and came back on the same ship as I did, Harry Denton, I didn’t know him then, he got the other half.
GT: So how many sheep and cattle were you grazing on a that kind of size?
AD: Oh, I had over a thousand sheep. I had up to two and a half thousand at one stage and then we had quite a lot of cattle and calves. Interesting reading through my old diaries, see I used to keep diaries.
GT: How old will you be next birthday?
AD: I’ll be ninety six.
GT: Ninety six, ninety seven, ninety six?
AD: Or more, I don’t know, it’s a bugger since my legs have started going on me, I started wearing that, up there, oh there, that riding helmet, save my head a bit [indecipherable] you feel a bit of a flash sometimes, just lasts a moment or two.
GT: So at your grand age now, you’re still mucking about on the farm and here we are in Amberley, New Zealand in mid January and the temperatures are rising to close to thirty degrees Celsius, which is pretty wicked here this time of year in New Zealand.
AD: Yes, I know.
GT: Alan, it’s a pleasure again catching up with you and thanks very much for talking to me and this will, an interview going to the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archives and you’re certainly a part of Bomber Command and you having completed operations, Baedekers, Mannas and Exoduses, you did the whole bunch really, that was pretty awesome.
AD: I had quite a good career, lucky with, we did crash a Wellington, went off the runway into a ditch, petrol running everywhere and got out at t a hell of ate and I got into trouble because I didn’t grab the secret code books, well I couldn’t see, was pitch dark and the poor erk that was riding a bike round the perimeter, he was the only person I’ve ever seen who was incoherent, he was babbling away and couldn’t hear a word, didn’t know what he was saying, we damn near run over him! [Laughter] Poor Bugger! Horse galloping round in the paddock next to him.
GT: No regrets, you served your King and your country and you were happy in the end to, with your achievements.
AD: I had a great experience. I’ve been back and visited two of the crew; last time I went back I couldn’t find any of them, rear gunner, Scott, and the navigator. Harry Denton, up here, when he was up here, with some of his crew; I think one of his crew got the VC! And also the, some of the Germans that shot him down, they come out here too and visit him. I’m not too sure whether I met them or not. I met some of the, his crew. Come out here twice I think.
GT: You’re former enemies and you’ve become friends, and that’s the case through most of time.
AD: I’ve been to Germany and had a look at the, some of the wartime graves there. Actually the chap who was supposed to inherit this farm, Lawrence Croft, he was in the Air Force too. I think he got blown out of the bomb aimer’s, I think it was him. I think also one of the wife’s cousins, Albert Chipping, I think he got blown out too.
GT: That was the thing, many of these folk came back to New Zealand and went straight back into working and many of the folk that were still here didn’t know anything of what you guys went through. Did you find that a big problem?
AD: Not really, no.
GT: The folk that you dealt with, worked with.
AD: I suppose it was still a job we had to do. Used to go down at night, have our pints.
GT: What were the, sorry, I meant to ask, what were the pubs around Mepal that you liked?
AD: Oh yeah. We stopped at one there.
GT: Chequers?
AD: Oh Chequers, we used to go to that one, Sutton, and then there used to be, one old Percy had it, at Haddenham, cause there was Haddenham up here, then Sutton here and Mepal over here and there was there used to be a road connecting them, course they closed it when the aerodrome, when the runway went across it.
GT: And you had Witchford.
AD: Quite a bit different now, bit hard to find the landmarks.
GT: Well Mepal Gardens have a Memorial for 75 New Zealand Squadron there.
AD: Yeah, they shifted it from where they actually put it, when, in 1978 when they dedicated it, shifted to another.
GT: Well cared for little garden, that’s for sure.
AD: Pardon?
GT: It’s a well cared for little garden. And 75 Squadron Association in the UK, friends, they hold a reunion twice a year right there, so all your colleagues are well remembered. Okay Alan, let’s sign off. I thank you very much for your interview, your thoughts, your memories and thank you for your service for your King and your country, and your sacrifice. Thank you very much.
AD: One of the lucky ones and it was an experience.
GT: Definitely lucky. Thank you, Alan.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Alan William Davis
Creator
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Glen Turner
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-01-16
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ADavisAW180116
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Pending review
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00:31:14 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Alan Davis joined the RNZAF towards the end of the war, training in Canada as a wireless operator and air gunner. He returned to the UK and after conversion to Lancasters was posted to 75 New Zealand Squadron. Alan tells of his training, crew changes and loss of colleagues as well as different operation and experiences. After the war he returned home and settled as a farmer, sometimes returning overseas and seeing old friends.
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
France
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
France--Île-de-France
France--Reims Region
Contributor
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Anne-Marie Watson
11 OTU
1668 HCU
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bottesford
RAF Mepal
RAF Oakley
RAF Spilsby
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/513/10829/AGoldstrawBJ180708.1.mp3
a564c931b4d363f769a9de476d7ee16e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Goldstraw, John Basil
John B Goldstraw
J B Goldstraw
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Goldstraw, BJ
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Basil Goldstraw (1925 - 2023). He served as a fitter with 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal, before being posted to Singapore.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: This is Sunday the 8th of July 2018 and I’m at the home of Mr John Basil Goldstraw, known as Basil or Bas, born 30 March 1925 in Buxton, Derbyshire, England. Basil joined the RAF in 1942 at the age of seventeen years doing a motor mechanic apprenticeship and later was grounded due to a medical condition so became an engines fitter on Stirlings and Lancasters. Basil was demobbed from the RAF early in 1947 after being sent to the Far East to help support Tiger Force in mid-1945. Basil, thank you for allowing me to interview you for the IBCC Digital Archives. Please tell me why and how you joined the RAF in 1942.
JG: I always had an interest in aeronautical. Even, yeah one of my regular magazines was Aeroplane which I wish I’d got these days. They’d be worth a fortune going back there. And I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to go and swim, I didn’t want to dig trenches so I thought the only way for me I’m going in the Air Force. So, I did it. I took a day off work, went to Manchester. Came in in the evening. Mum said, ‘Where have you been?’ I said, ‘I’m no longer — ’
GT: How old were you, Basil when you joined up?
JG: Well, I’d be seventeen.
GT: Did you have to have your mother’s written permission?
JG: She didn’t know until I came back [laughs] She was, she was not impressed.
GT: You didn’t have to show your birth certificate then.
JG: She was not impressed. No. So it was just a case of, I must be honest after I joined the RAF from being accepted I did get my call up papers for the Army and I wrote across it, “Accepted for the RAF,” sent it back and never heard anything else.
GT: Well, Basil from the age of fourteen you said that you were a motor mechanic. Was that your calling?
JG: Yeah.
GT: Was that your interest?
JG: I think it was more a case of my family saying, ‘You ought to do something useful.’ So, you know, that’s it so I spent quite a number of years doing that. So yeah, and other things. It was rather a strange apprenticeship because it was with the local authority and although they had vehicles they still had horses and carts [laughs]
GT: So your apprenticeship was specifically about —
JG: Well, cars and general engineering. Yeah. See that there? That is one of the, one of the old steam rollers that we used to have that, yeah —
GT: Basil is pointing to a horse effigy and it’s quite comical.
JG: Aveling-Barford. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. Ok.
JG: Yeah.
GT: And that was in Derbyshire or Manchester?
JG: That was in Derbyshire. Yeah.
GT: Fabulous. So from —
JG: And —
GT: Yeah. Carry on.
JG: Ah, well no, I was going to say so I went in the RAF and when I came out, when I got demobbed I went back to my original employer doing the things I’d been trained to do.
GT: What about your training in the RAF? What did they give you?
JG: Well, after my initial, my initial training, basic training was carried out at Arbroath. Living in the old jute mills. That was a revelation. Yes. And then from there went to Blackpool, civvy billets because we were posted to Squires Gate, 3 SoTT where initially you did a flight mechanics course. Engines. Came out of that and I’m not quite sure. I think from there I went to Hendon and did my fitter’s course. From there posted to 75.
GT: Ok. So with your engine training what type of engines did they have you working on? The latest and greatest or was it [unclear] first?
JG: Oh, no. No. The crap [laughs] pardon me. One of, one of their prized possessions for the training school was a Blackburn Botha [laughs] dear oh dear, you know. And I think actually at the end of the course we started the engines up on that and there was no way it could fly. You know. They didn’t. So, no. General training would be on an inline engine. You would be specialising on carburation or ignition or that so you would take, and you would have to answer questions on the board when they’d finished to see whether you could get your grading coming off because you were either an AC, AC1 or an LAC coming off there, you see. And from there I can’t, there’s a blank. I can only think that I went to Henlow because that, that fixes in my mind. Did a, did a fitter’s course down there and then sent to 75 at Mepal.
GT: So when you joined your operational squadron was that the first time that you’d, you’d looked at, in this case you were working on at Stirlings? Yeah.
JG: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GT: So the first time on radial engines.
JG: Well, the, the old Botha had radial engines in, you see. So I forget what they had in. Whether they had [pause] what would they be? Perseus. The old Bristol engines. They weren’t much good. Yeah. No, the Stirlings. Yeah. That was an eye opener. There they are up there. You know, with all old radial engines, especially sleeve valve before you start them up you’ve got to turn the engine over to stop hydraulicing. If you don’t, I mean you see this more on the Americans. You see them on the, on the Fortresses or the Super Fortress and you see them getting on bringing the prop around. Yeah. The idea is to get rid of the oil out of the bottom cylinders because overnight they would do there and if you went in, pressed the button to start up you could actually blow a cylinder head off. Yeah. So, yeah. So and with the, with the Stirlings, imagine how light they are, you had a bloody great starting handle [laughs] to, you had to sort of get this in an orifice in the engine. Plug it in. And then you’d be two of you turning this round to get the props to turn round sufficient. Laughable. Oh dear.
GT: That was every time before engine start up.
JG: Yeah.
GT: When the crew was sitting in the aircraft waiting to go.
JG: Well, you do this prior to them sitting in there. You know, getting ready. Turn the engine so the crew could go in and say, ‘Righto, lads. Number one. Number two. Number three, and number four. Fire them up.’ Yeah.
GT: So when you worked on the aircraft did, did you help out the armourers or were you two separate?
JG: No. They were separate. Don’t want to know you. [laughs]
GT: So would they load the aircraft while you were still working on them or did they have to wait?
JG: No.
GT: Until you were finished.
JG: Yeah. They, they, whilst you were in the hangar the other trades would be working. I mean you might find the airframe people were changing a wheel because the tyre had changed. I don’t know whether you know. I mean little, when, because the wheels they are still on at present day are static virtually when it hits, you know.
GT: Oh yeah.
JG: I mean, yeah. So, the tyres were marked and they looked to see how far it had marked and they might have to change that and might have to change an oleo leg. And the armourers would be in the back perhaps changing something on a turret. The girls would be there doing the safety equipment. The dinghy, putting in new dinghies in or whatever was required.
GT: So, you mainly worked in the hangars not out on the airfield.
JG: I never worked outside. I was in, again fortunately or unfortunately I was allotted to what they called R&I, and R&I, I don’t know if it was repair and inspection or what it was. At any rate modifications. We were, we were always in the hangar. The flight boys, I never got to know the aircrews because all we got was their plane. Service it, engine change, prop changes, do what modifications, anything. Put it out on the dispersal, run it up and then they take it back on to the flight, you see.
GT: So was that part of 64 MU in Mepal? Were you separate or you were specifically on 75?
JG: 64 MU was separate. They, they used to do what we called category work. So if there was a, mostly that was air frame so if there was a sort of a main plane damage which couldn’t be done by the flights that would go over to, to 64 MU. Do that. They were separate. We sort of didn’t even associate, if you understand me.
GT: So they weren’t part of 75 Squadron but they were an integral part of keeping 75 aircraft flying.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Or did they have other aircraft come in from other Squadrons?
JG: I don’t remember others coming in. I don’t remember others coming in. There was, I think there was enough sort of flak damage and general damage on the Squadron for them to accommodate it.
GT: Yeah.
JG: You know.
GT: 75 Squadron codes were AA and JN so that’s the two main codes you kept seeing.
JG: JN C and AA. Yeah. Yeah. So, I only, you know, you know the layout of Mepal?
GT: Yeah. So, so do tell please. Describe the layout then if that helps. So from your —
JG: Well, I’ll just see. I should have a plan of it on here.
GT: So, at one end was —
JG: What you had, you had the, the main road coming up from Ely and there was a crossroad where Horse and Gate pub, the left side used to go to Haddenham down to Sutton and this one used to go around through Witchford to Mepal. So the village was down there. The main gate was on the Witchford, the Witchford Road so you had, you had the, a lot of the accommodation and servicing near the main road and then all the rest was the airfield. We had the first hangar as you got to the airfield. There were three. I think there were three hangars. We had one. There was one and there was another one over there. Yeah. A and B flights were always out in the open and everything that we did we were fortunately under cover. I mean, our hangar was big enough to take two Lancasters. You know, tail in one. Tail in the other. So that was it.
GT: Was your dispersal sealed or was it all grass? The surrounds of your hangar, was it, was it all sealed concrete or grass?
JG: The dispersals themselves where the aircraft parked they were concreted and the rest was all grass you see, so you had the, the dispersal pans that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GT: How many aircraft in each dispersal?
JG: Well, I reckon you would have, as I say I think you would probably have eight per flight and then they would be grouped probably of two or three together in like in a pan. And you just dispersed here. Didn’t, unfortunately didn’t, as I say didn’t have anything to do with the flights. We were, we were always so busy. First thing in the morning there would either be a plane being towed in or it would be in there already for you and say, well you know the flight sergeant in charge of the hangar was Blondie Sadler. Great lad. And he’d just say, ‘Right, there you are.’ ‘Here you are.’ You, you know you’d be given the instruction so whichever engine you, you were working on, what it was, whether it was a seventy five hour, a multiple of, an engine change or a modification, or a prop change, you know would, would be done. And you would, you would just muck in. That was it. Simple.
GT: You, you were telling me about an incident where you’d fitted an engine and it went out on a, on a flight and you were, you were enjoying a swim at the time.
JG: Oh that. Yeah. We, we’d done, I forget what we had done but we had finished early. As this was a, a Lanc had come in with four different maintenance schedules. Four different hourly maintenance levels. So you might get a seventy five hour one, you might what’s, you might get a multiple of that which would be two hundred and, three, seven, twenty one.
GT: Fifty.
JG: Two eighty five. Or you might get a, you know, six hour one of that. So they were all, all different and occasionally if you’d fitted early and everybody was happy they didn’t want any assistance chiefy would say, ‘Righto lads. Well, you’ve signed up. You’re done. You can go.’ So a couple of us went down to the Three Pickerells. Got on our bikes, parked on the side of the canal there, got in the water and swimming about. Oh yeah. There she goes on air test. We saw her go over. When we got back, when we got back into the mess or the cookhouse whichever you like to call it they said, ‘Bloody hell, you’re in trouble mate.’ ‘Why? What’s the matter?’ ‘Well —’, so and so, I think it were U-Uncle, ‘Engine run away coming in, whipped it’s undercarriage off. She’s lying on the deck.’ You see. So that was it. That made the backside twitch a bit. So we sort of left what we were doing and went up to the hangar to find out whether we were guilty or not. Luckily we came away smiling. It wasn’t us [laughs] It wasn’t us. But some poor sod. I mean they, they were strict but within reasons. If they were running short with the, with people, if they were, you know and they wanted the plane out the idea was that whoever finished last on the maintenance system on a plane would have to see it out on to the dispersal. See if all the engines run up. If there were any snags you had to do the snag finding, you know. It might be just simple like crossed leads. You might get a one inch and you might get a bigger, a bigger mag drop, you know because what they do as you run them they run them at say at twelve hundred revs and they’ve, they’ve got a set of mags. They’ve got two mags. One feeds the exhaust side of the, and the, the other feeds the inlet side. Well, the exhaust side they go around the side so that you can’t knock them up. But on the inlet side they used to, the trunker used to go across the top of the trunking you see and they used to go off at an angle. And it was quite easy at times, especially on, on the end to get, to get the plugs crossed. You see. So you’d have to go on, you know go out, get things off, and get those so you know you used to do that and then of course you used to have to see it off on air test. When it came back see the pilot. ‘Any complaints?’ ‘No.’ ‘Sign the 700,’ and, and it was alright, you see. But now this normally was a senior NCO but if they were running short I mean chiefy would say, ‘Well, you’re bloody well trained,’ in his antipodean accent,
GT: Was he a New Zealander?
JG: Yeah. Well, he was New Zealand or Australian. I forget which he was. And he’d tell you to get out and do it. So you would go out there and run it up and do what was necessary. I mean they were fairly free, free souls. Perhaps one thing that you shouldn’t say but all ground crew were, had to do guard duty at some time or other and we had a wonderful engineering officer. I can’t remember his name and he was on guard. He was commander of the guard one night and it was getting towards the back end of the year and the first crews, the first eight or ten people went out on their guard and later on when, when things were getting a bit quiet he said, ‘Now, I want x number of you to go back to your billets and have a sleep, but —' he says, ‘If the officer of the guard comes around and wants to go around and inspect, the guards that are in bed but should be out on the guard —’ he said, ‘I want, I want that number of people to get outside quick.’ So, what it amounted to you’d perhaps have thirty blokes there, and there might be six sent back to the doings and after, after, after the it had gone dusk you see and, oh dear. I don’t know how we got away with it. Great people though, you know.
GT: So you perfected the engine changes pretty quick. How many fitters did it take to change a, well first off a Stirling engine and then a Lancaster engine? Any differences?
JG: My mind’s a little bit hazy on the Stirling but we could, we could do a Merlin change in a morning. In a morning. Definitely. It’s so simple. I mean once you, once you’d done it and you had a good mate. I mean it trollies around. Cowlings off. One of you would start disposing. One of you would go to the front and get the prop ready to get that off, you see. So, get everything loose. Once you’d got the prop you go back and help, help your mate to start then. No trouble. And if you could get handy with a cold strain, that was the beauty of it. Yeah. Yeah. You could get him [pause] Get the prop off on its stand. Engine in. Engine out. Engine in. Prop back on. Probably, oh what? Half an hour and then you’ve got to do all the, the refitting of all the pipework and everything. So, no trouble. No trouble. No trouble.
GT: And you were always signing the 700 for your work or job sheet or work sheet.
JG: Every, every job that you did you signed for. Generally speaking you had, it’s an old fashioned, a strip, a strip of paper. A strip of paper and on there would be every item that you would have to see to. So you signed that strip and that strip went back into the records and you signed where it had gone in the records in the office. And if you, if you did your first strip quickly and there was more to be done you could probably do two or three of these. They were like maintenance forms but in a strip. It was quite, you know, you got used to it actually. Got used to it. Yeah.
GT: The maintenance practices that you guys worked to they had independent inspections before you put cowlings on or covers on? Or was that just solely your responsibility?
JG: Once, once you’d taken the cowlings off and put the cowlings back on, taken outside. Run up. Right. And that was it. As I say when you was out after the last crew to finish would be the people who would do any rectification. But there was no, there was no senior officer inspection of the work you had done.
GT: Not even senior NCO.
JG: No. No. They did it. Yeah.
GT: You, in the last couple of years have visited the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight and, and offered them some gold information there, Mr Goldstraw. Tell us a bit about talking with the engineers of today and how they’re looking after the BBMF Lancaster compared to how you did it.
JG: Well, it was quite interesting going up to Coningsby. I mean the tools we had to do the jobs that we had to do were what normally now the average gardener would have for his lawn mower [laughs] and whilst I was up, whilst I was up at Coningsby because, oh that’s interesting and this is something else they got two of the boys out of the car, the cave already.
[recording paused]
GT: Right. So Basil, what we were discussing was the differences between then and now. Basil, the BBMF Lancaster and its technicians compared to the technicians and fitters of your day. What, what was the differences that you found? And I understand you visited and chatted with these guys too.
JG: Well, the equipment. The equipment we were issued with as I say to compare what we had with what they now use for servicing was sort of the, the odd spanners that the average gardener would use for his lawn mower. I went up to Coningsby because they wanted information from ground crew as to what we did and how we did it and wonderful people up there but they had no idea of how we managed with the equipment that we had. And they actually fetched one of their, or actually fetched two of their toolboxes out to show me what they use and of course there were lovely, embedded in sort of plastic all shiny stainless steel spanners and everything, you know. Whereas we had to manage. You know. If you were taking a prop off and I used to do a lot of this work you, you had to use [laughs] you had to use what you were given with. And on the, on the big ring that locked the dome on to the, the prop we, we used to use the tow bar off the trestles as a hammer to get this tightened up because you couldn’t do it any other way. Ah dear oh dear. Just imagine that. Bloody great tow bar. Put it under your arm and you’re doing this. Yeah. Great fun. Great fun. But things change. Things change. Now, they, they although the engines are still the same they’ve got computer systems which identify any problem but that was a revelation to see the, the tool kits and listen to the, and for them to listen to us to how we did the job. Oh dear. Yeah. I got, I’ve got better tools in the garage than we had to do with. You had two or three spanners, a high faced hammer, a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. You wouldn’t believe it would you?
GT: Were those tools that you’d made yourself or they’d given you for servicing the engines?
JG: Oh, no. They, they were issued for servicing. That’s what you were issued with. A set of spanners. Not all the same make. A high faced hammer, a pair of pliers and a screwdriver. That was it.
GT: Today’s Royal Air Force is very hot on tool control because you leave a tool in behind a panel or in a cockpit and that aircraft goes flying it’s imminently in danger. What, was there any kind of tool control back in your time? In wartime.
JG: No. I mean, put it this way you didn’t dare lose a tool because you had to go and tell chiefy and get another one. So, no. No. No. No. I had the tools in my box from the day I was given them ‘til the day I left there. Yeah. Absolute crap. I actually was walking through [pause] where was I walking through? I was hitchhiking. I’m trying to think a minute. Not Lincoln. I was walking through Lincoln and I saw this shop and there was a set of Bedford chrome, chrome vanadium spanners in the window and I went in and bought those. I paid, I think I paid twenty five shillings for them and I’ve still got some of them now.
GT: In 1944 you did this.
JG: That. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they became part of my toolbox but I hung on to them at any rate. So —
GT: And no one else knew what tools you had and you didn’t compare tools with other technicians or fitters.
JG: Oh no. No. No. No. No.
GT: You guarded your tool bag.
JG: Well, I’ll tell you what. If you changed the starter motor [pause] if you changed a starter motor what you wanted was a sort of box spanner with the universal joint on it [unclear] So the only thing you could get, somebody on the Squadron did and got a T spanner with a sort of five sixteenth box spanner, a short one on the end of it and you could try and hold the bloody starter up and get this nuts on. Oh dear. Tools. One of the, one of the other jobs which you could have. Are we still on? Oh, I see. Yeah. Was Lancasters were prone, Merlins were prone to lose their exhaust stubs. And it’s, it’s sod’s law that if the studs, if they, if they fell off not only could they damage the tail plane, you know, the [unclear] but the studs would break in the block at an angle. Right. And we had, well I once said, ‘If chiefy gives me another one of them I’ll go absent,’ because you were working at a slight angle you see that the block is. We’d only got air drills which were, we’d nothing else. The actual drill bits were poor so you had to try and get, I mean if, if it slanted, if it’s below if they were broke off and you got a bit you could get a pair of pliers on or something like that you might be able to hook them out but nine times out of ten there would be a broken in, in the block and they would be broken at an angle. Now, you try and get a drill to go in at an angle to try and then get it, get the drill to bite so that you could go in straight because if you made a mess of it you could find that you were getting a right old rollicking because you might have disturbed the cooling system. You know, one of the [pause] so you had to be very careful. It was a piggish job. You succeeded by trial and error. A lot of swearing. A lot of time, you see. And you could do it but you had a, what they called a Trepanning tool which you could put over the undamaged studs of the next two mountings which would give you an idea. But a waste of time. It was all virtually trial and error to get, to get them in and get the studs, studs out.
GT: The product today we use is easy out.
JG: Oh. Easy out. Yeah. Electric drills. You could put them there and you know there were so many ways that if it’s at an angle if it’s broken, if it’s broken off at an angle where you could grind that with the, you know modern equipment to get it right. Spot on. And then get inside. That was a lousy job as I say. Yeah. Yeah. I said give me one more of these and I’m going AWL OL. I think I’ve got that written down somewhere. But you never did it because you know, you know you had to do it. Yeah.
GT: You were working in the hangars, you just explained to me, most if not all of the time.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Were you in contact to know that the Squadron had lost aircraft each night?
JG: Not necessarily. You might, it might filter back to you that you had, you know that they lost two or three aircraft or somebody might say well so and so didn’t come back. Something like that. You used to see the damage sometimes that the, you know holes in the main plane that would be brought in for the fitters to do, you know. Tanks damaged so they’d have to take the panels off, take the tanks out.
GT: Yeah. It was one night in July ’44 that they lost seven aircraft in one night. So that was, that was pretty horrific for the Squadron’s morale as well.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the people who would notice that would be the lads out on the flights. They would, you know because then they would be waiting for replacement aircraft coming in. And they’d have —
GT: So that meant there was two specific separate components to the maintenance teams. Ones on the flight line and doing the flight line work and you guys in the hangar. No, there’s a third. Then there’s you guys. Intermediate. And then you’ve got the MU on the other side doing the deep level stuff. So there’s the three breakdowns.
JG: Yeah. It was. I’m not sure about how far 64 came in on this. Never had, I never had a lot to do with them but yes from the point of view of 75 you had the guys on the flights who attended to them. You’d have, I mean on the flights you might have for each aircraft or for a group of you might have a couple of flight mechanics, air frames, you might have a couple of fitter’s engines. There might be flight mechanics. You might have an electrician, armourer. You might have a couple of air frame mechanics just to keep, keep those planes up there. And anything major, modifications, anything major used to be pulled in to the hangar. We were never short of work. I can tell you that. No.
GT: Now, you mentioned that Mepal had several night intruders come and attack the airfield. What happened on those occasions?
JG: Well, the first time, the first time he came in they scattered anti-personnel bombs all over the place so again until the, until the armoury people had been in that was dead. At that particular time we had no air defence so there was a big panic on. Quite a number of the ground crews were sent to Waterbeach to learn how to use the twin Brownings on the stalk mounting and we actually had two of those sets on the, on the airfield for future use. But when you were on duty with them at night you were not allowed to open fire until, unless you got orders from headquarters. So by the time you’d seen him and got the orders old Jerry was on his way back home.
GT: Did you actually see the German aircraft itself? Did you know what it was that dropped the —
JG: It was a JU88. Yeah. A JU88 that night. Yeah.
GT: Bombing. No strafing.
JG: Just came down, just opened the bomb doors and gone. Must have followed them in you see or I say followed them in he probably actually knew where we were from the, from the old landing lights that were still there you see because I don’t think they did, I don’t think he did any particular damage. No.
GT: Some of the aircrew have said to me that they had their navigation lights on but once they started being followed the practice was to switch them off.
JG: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: And 115 Squadron at Witchford had several shot down as they were coming in to land by Messerschmitt 410s.
JG: Yeah.
GT: And that’s been well documented so with Witchford and Mepal being in the same orbit.
JG: Well, yeah. That’s strange actually. They seemed to get more problems than we did. I only remember that one in particular and there might have been one other instance where he just, what shall I say? Flew over and didn’t do any damage. But not being a night bird it was just that I actually was one of the people that like many others who got sent down to Waterbeach to know how to operate the [pause] there and I was on one night. Not when we got an intruder but I knew what the instructions were. Don’t fire.
GT: So you had several stand too’s yourself with the gun.
JG: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was it. So, that was it.
GT: Did you live on base during your time at Mepal?
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a good crew actually. Yeah.
GT: Because you were eighteen or nineteen years old at that time, weren’t you?
JG: Oh yeah. Full, full [laughs] full of the joys of spring.
GT: And did you go down to the pubs much? Not that you were allowed to were you but —
JG: Well, yeah they, no as long as you were there, again it didn’t matter what you did at night as long as you were there in the morning. As long as you were there. I mean I, yeah we used to, we used to go down to the Chequers. Dinner on camp on a Sunday was rubbish so perhaps on a Saturday night we’d say to the barman, ‘Can we have sandwiches tomorrow?’ And he’d, he’d knock up sandwiches. So we would go down to Chequers and have a pint of beer and sandwiches and then go back for the afternoon session until we finished. But I mean I must admit I, before I met my wife I had a girlfriend. And my girlfriend lived away. And her mother thought I was the best thing since sliced bread and sliced bread hadn’t been thought of in those days. So, the father didn’t take much to me. His daughter. You can imagine that. Oh yeah. That’s not for publication.
GT: Did you sneak her on, on to camp? Did you seek her on to the station?
JG: No. I didn’t. No. I sneaked off. I rode my bike. Oh dear. I, I actually she pushed me and pushed me. She wanted to marry me. And I said no. No. No, because her mother thought, yeah. ‘Are you coming to dinner on the weekend? Are you off by any chance?’ Yeah. Oh dear.
GT: So what, your shift work was it just the normal 8 ‘til 5 work? How did they organise it for your servicing? Did they go all twenty four hour servicing?
JG: Eight. 8 ‘til 5, 6 o’clock. If the plane was wanted you would work ‘til the finish. Occasionally you would work all night. I’ve done that. Started in one. Started in our hangar and then moved to where there was another hangar up on [pause] I don’t know what flight that was and they were, they were stuck up there. We were finished so we were sent up there and we went out, came back after we’d had a meal. Worked all night until the next morning, I know that night I’d, I’d finished and I put a prop on that had been repaired and when we ran it up the bloody thing vibrated. So I had to take it off again and put another. It hadn’t been balanced right. So this happened occasionally. A bit of swearing. Get on with the bloody job. Yeah.
GT: So you must have still had blackout as a huge issue or problem so how could you blackout a hangar? Was it easy to keep the light from getting out or were you diligent —
JG: Well, I, generally speaking I can’t remember that I ever worked in the dark in the hangar so that would, I never think about that. I mean you used to go there and do your work and go home. This particular night there was a maximum effort one that we had to do. Well, we were working outside. I forgot even what the lights were, you know. I know that I was very much engaged doing this bloody exhaust stub replacement. So that taxed you. Yeah.
GT: So you mentioned maximum effort and that is also the title of a small movie made on 75.
JG: Well, if you had twenty six planes normally you would not have a maximum effort. You might send out, you know eighteen or twenty or just twelve but as, as they got in to Normandy — maximum effort. They wanted every plane that was flyable. So, you know if it was a case of well this was in, ‘Well, get it ready. We want it for tomorrow morning,’ you know. Occasionally you would find there would be one plane that would be waiting for spares and that would be parked up at the far end near the bomb dump. And if you wanted a part that you were short of and stores hadn’t you used to go and put a robbing chit on that so that, you know you could take off what you wanted, you know. But apart from that maximum effort meant maximum effort. Every plane available must go.
GT: Did you get to see your commanding officer much of the Squadron?
JG: Can’t think of. Can’t think of. No. No. I can’t. It was a case of line up in the morning, roll call then get on with your work, you know. Fairly, fairly flexible. Yeah.
GT: Was there an airman’s bar on the airfield or was it just the senior NCOs and junior NCOs bar?
JG: Well, the only place you had on the bar for, for the, the sergeants had a mess but any beyond that, they just had the NAAFI. The cookhouse and the NAAFI. And I can’t remember drinks being available in the NAAFI. Used to go down to Sutton to the Chequers if you wanted to drink. I used to drink elsewhere.
GT: In later years the Chequers had a lot of photographs up on the walls which I’ve visited several times. When you were there did they have anything up on the walls that related to the Squadron or was it all pretty bare?
JG: No. I mean if you were to, if you’d have gone in to the Chequers, let me think [pause] I went in to the, I said to the wife, ‘I’ll take you down there. I want to show you where I was.’ Now, I’ll tell you what. In 1968 I came down here and going back home one day I said to the wife, I said, ‘We’ll go back a different way. We’ll go back through Cambridgeshire and Mepal.’ And we went into the Chequers for a meal and a drink. And I was looking at some of the photos, they’re not there now of the Squadron and I was looking at one particular one and one of the locals came up to me and said, ‘No good you looking on there, young man.’ I said, ‘Oh really?’ ‘Yeah,’ he said, ‘You’re too young to —’ you know, because I’ve always been, I’ve never looked my age, if you, I mean they tell me now. And I said, ‘Oh really?’ I said, ‘Well, just as a matter of fact,’ I said, ‘Do you see that bloke there?’ He said, ‘Yeah.’ I said, ‘Well, that was me.’ [laughs] He went away with his tail between his legs. Yeah. But if you go in the Chequers now it’s under new ownership and they’ve taken all the good ones away. All the good photographs that they had have gone.
GT: Now, there was also not only German intruders but there was Americans that visited Mepal, you were telling me. Aircraft would come in from their day’s sorties and you’d be —
JG: Oh yeah. That used to be exciting because when they were coming back from a bombing raid they were only, their interest if they were in trouble was forget about the red flag, the red signals.
GT: Flare.
JG: The verey lights going up saying stop, you’re not coming in. They said we’re coming in. And it was quite interesting. We had two. One, one was the Fortress and our blokes were coming in and they were firing verey lights up. Stop. Stop. Stop. You know. Don’t come in. He ignored it. He came in and glided down. Landed up. And there was a Liberator did the same, Oh yeah. Yeah. I’m getting down on to mother earth. That was very interesting. But no accident. The rest of the crews. Our blokes used to fly back in what we called a gaggle anyway you see and they’d be, and all of a sudden this Yank would come through the [laughs ] Make way. I’m first. Yeah.
GT: Well, the Americans didn’t carry navigators. Only one aircraft per flight did they carry navigators so many of them perhaps just saw an airfield and said —
JG: They saw an airfield and they were in trouble that’s where I’m going.
GT: That’s where the British bombers had the best. They had a navigator for each aircraft wasn’t it? That was the best way of looking at that.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no.
GT: What, what was one of the best times you kind of remember from Mepal if there was one?
JG: I don’t think there was a best time. I must admit this, considering it was wartime I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the people I was with. I enjoyed what I was doing. And I enjoyed the girls, you know.
GT: Nineteen years old.
JG: You see we had, we had the, a small musical group. They were called the oh [pause] the 75ers I think they called them and they used to play. There was Johnny Kimber he used to play sax. There was Len Mitchell. Len Mitchell, I forget what he played. There was Arthur Swift played the fiddle. There was a drummer. I can’t remember his name. Well, Arthur Swift, Johnny Kimber and Les Mitchell they actually were members of the billet I shared so I got on with them and yeah, they used to play in Chatteris, to the dance on a Friday or Saturday night if they were free and this is where we used to land up for a dance, oh yeah. Good. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I can’t think really that I, there’s any place, any point in my time at Mepal where I didn’t enjoy it. You know.
GT: You knew that this war had a lot at stake of your guys to make sure you won.
JG: Oh yeah.
GT: Even at nineteen. Yeah.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I accepted that I wasn’t going to become aircrew because of having to go in there so you just make the best of it.
GT: Yeah. If you don’t mind can we briefly touch on why you volunteered for aircrew but they grounded you. So could you expand on that please?
JG: Well, what, what had happened with me I’d always, I’d always had a problem bleeding and it never bothered me but the local dental officer on the Squadron was a bit over ambitious trying to fill a tooth and he, he broke a tooth and I know I said, ‘Oh, I’m in bloody trouble now.’ And he said, ‘Well, it’s got to come out.’ Well, he took it out and couldn’t stop the bleeding and he sent me home on a forty eight hour pass or a thirty six and when I got home I went into the Army place that was in Buxton to see the medical there and they tried to stop it and gave me an extra day and I went back, reported to the sick quarters again. They let it get infected and I landed up in the RAF hospital and it was, they managed to get rid of the infection, they stopped the bleeding and all that happened after that was my grade wasn’t, my medical grade was not reduced. They didn’t say what the problem is but they said, ‘You’re grounded. You’re not going to fly.’ And it wasn’t until 1950, early 50s when I took it on myself because I’d got a problem to go to the doctor and said, ‘Can we sort this out?’ So did that and I landed up with a card which says I am a carrier of haemophilia. So, yeah.
GT: So you find out that around about early 1943 when you were aiming for aircrew and suddenly no. You’re not doing it and you were, you were staying as, as ground crew.
JG: That’s right. Yeah.
GT: And you contribute that may have saved your life.
JG: Eh?
GT: You contribute that that may have saved your life.
JG: Well, it’s ironical isn’t it something that could kill you almost saves your life? You know. I mean the point is that if you like saying this if I was away and sort of fell off a cliff and bled to death nobody could have, I would have, I would have just bled to death you see because I’m bleeding and I mean that has [pause] switch if off.
[recording paused]
GT: Right. Now, Basil we were moving on through to the end of ’44 and in Europe there was a devastating winter but Mepal was not affected much. No. So —
JG: No. I can’t really remember being snowed in or anything like that. I don’t know whether we were. No. I mean everything went on as normal until towards the end of ’45 when —
GT: The end of ’44 because the war was finishing by around about April ’45. Because you were then chosen for Tiger Force you were telling me.
JG: Yeah. Well, I was just going to say.
GT: Yeah.
JG: 75 disbanded. Went to Spilsby. They went to Spilsby for home leave and then to be part of Tiger Force because the Japanese were still fighting and there was a collection of people. I was one of them who was sent abroad to become part of Tiger Force ground crew for the Lancaster or the —
GT: Lincoln.
JG: The Lincoln. But in actual fact, by the time we got out there the war had finished so it was a case of being left there until your demob number came up where you were then sent home.
GT: How did you get out to Singapore or the Far East as it was known then?
JG: They flew us out. They flew us out from Swindon area. They flew us out. First, first trip out was to Malta. We spent a night in Malta. Then the following day we went to Habbaniya in northern Iraq. The following day I think we went to Karachi. The following day I may be, I may be out of, I may be out a couple of days actually. And then we landed at Calcutta and at that particular time we were some of us were transferred to a transit camp at Ballygunge waiting to go down into Malaysia and so forth. You know. By that time as I say the war had finished. VJ I think had come and gone so we were in sort of [pause] what shall I say? We were in no man’s land. You know. We were just being handed on, handed on. From there down to Mingaladon, Rangoon, Butterworth and one other place. Seletar. Changi. The other one you have to forget about.
GT: Tengah.
JG: Tengah, and then we got on the boat to come back to England, Southampton. And —
GT: Now, what was that boat’s name?
JG: The Johan van Oldenbarnevelt [laughs] Should have been sunk at birth.
GT: Do say that name again. That sounds so good. Do say that name again.
JG: The Johan van Oldenbarnevelt. One of the Dutch liners in small letters which actually became a cruise boat and sometime in the early 50s caught fire. She became the Laconia. That’s right. She became the, she was renamed the Laconia and she was a cruise boat and she caught fire in the Mediterranean.
GT: It got you home safe. Now, during your time in the Far East as it was then you didn’t service engines. Because that’s what you were sent out there to do.
JG: No. No. No. No. Anything but. Anything but —
GT: Was that a disappointing end to your war?
JG: Oh yeah. That was, that was stupid. I mean, I spent, yeah I spent hours in a plug bay testing plugs, cleaning plugs, checking the bloody insulation and the lads who were on the flying boats at Seletar used to [laughs] loads of these plugs in, ‘They want testing, mate.’ So you’d take another set out. Absolute waste of time. Yeah. Absolute waste of time.
GT: Although, you did see VE Day in England but then were shipped out after it didn’t you?
JG: Oh yeah. It was just a case of then right the way probably certainly after Mingaladon.
GT: Yeah.
JG: We were just sort of saying, ‘Righto. Well, what’s our number? When’s it coming up? When can we go home?’
GT: So, you managed to get home about end of ’46 early ’47 then.
JG: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: You stayed out there that long.
JG: Yeah. That was a lot. Yeah.
GT: That was enough. So, what, what did you work on then once you were demobbed. In civilian life again.
JG: Oh, vehicles of any description. Steam rollers. Anything that was mechanical and I did that. Yeah. I had a very interesting civilian life. Very interesting.
GT: So you had a job with the local authorities.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Boroughs.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And what were you doing for them?
JG: Before I came down here? Oh, well maintenance of any of the sewerage works or water works equipment. The vehicles. The machines that they used. You know. There was always something and [pause] yeah.
GT: And in 1947 you met Muriel.
JG: Well, I met Muriel before ’47. But yeah.
GT: You married her in ’47.
JG: Yeah. I met her in, I met her the first time in 1942 but nothing came of it and it was, it’s even now I don’t know how we got together again. No.
GT: But you had many years of great marriage.
JG: But [pause] yeah.
GT: And sadly Muriel died in 2008 but you have had a son and a daughter.
JG: Yeah. A son and daughter. A granddaughter. Two great grandchildren.
GT: Fabulous. Your son Ian who is now fifty six and daughter Susan sixty seven.
JG: Ah she’s sixty seven.
GT: Brilliant.
JG: Yeah.
GT: And a lovely granddaughter Louise looks after you too.
JG: She’s about, she’s about I think she’s forty and the two grandchildren are fourteen and sixteen.
GT: And you’re, I’m speaking with you now in your lovely house here at Haywards Heath so and it’s very kind of you to allow me to visit you yet again. I’ve visited you several years in a row now.
JG: Welcome to see you.
GT: It’s fabulous to chat with you. So after you did some obviously illustrious work for different boroughs and counties you retired in 1986. What did you retire to? Badminton. Squash.
JG: Well, actually when I, when I retired the first time because of being involved and I had to go back to work for twelve, for eighteen, no twelve months. I had a month off and then went back to work and did, and did any work. Any work I could find part time, and ’86 [pause] Let me think. ‘86. Yeah. How old would I have been in ‘86? I can’t even bloody [pause] yeah.
GT: Sixty.
JG: What?
GT: Sixty one. You’d be sixty one.
JG: Sixty one.
GT: So you, you became a road transport engineer before that too didn’t you?
JG: Yeah.
GT: So, yeah —
JG: Yeah. I’d got my transport manager’s licence and I was a member of the Institute of Road Transport Engineers and a member of something else. IMI, you know so —
GT: It must have been a very satisfying job building the local roads and keeping them going. Was it?
JG: I’ve got to say this. It was a more satisfying job with the people I was with before I came down here because local government changed. In 1974 local government changed completely. I mean, whereas we had been responsible before I came down here we were a borough and we were responsible for our own sewerage and waterworks and our old roads everything. I came down here, a slightly different environment and then in ‘74 the local government changed and the water authorities came in and all the rest of them and roads went back to the County. Sewerage went to the Water Authority. The water, that was strange. What was the other one? There used to be, where the effluent used to go in to the river from the sewerage works the water bailiffs used to come up and they used to check the water to see if we were polluting the river which after 1974 the Water Authority took over the sewerage works so they became their own mentors. Right. So one never knew. I mean if you listen to the radio now we’re polluting the streams these days which are under the authority of the Water Authority. We’re polluting them more than we did when it was run by the local authorities and you had the water bailiffs checking on your pollution problems. So, yeah [pause] Yeah.
GT: So, Basil you’ve been a long time member of the Bomber Command Association and the Royal Air Force Association.
JG: Yeah.
GT: You have therefore been to many dinners and meetings or trips away.
JG: Yeah. Yeah. I usually join in with the Christmas dinner at the local RAFA Club and I get the occasional call out as a wartime serving person to join in with the functions at Coningsby or wherever it is, and quite enjoy that. And of course we have the Association AGM every year which I’ve now got myself into at St Ives. So, yeah. I still get, I still get calls.
GT: Well, I know the UK 75 Squadron Association friends of are very pleased to have you amongst their —
JG: Yeah.
GT: Many members now. And I know you’ve laid wreaths for and on behalf of the Association at several recent events.
JG: Well —
GT: Been fantastic. You’re wearing one of my Squadron ties in many of the pictures I see so it’s fabulous and of course your Squadron badge on your jacket.
JG: Yeah. Have you seen my Squadron badge on my car?
GT: Brilliant. You see. So, its brilliant that you’re a 75 Association chappie and me from New Zealand. You from the UK. Love it and that’s just fabulous. Now, also sports wise and you are now ninety —
JG: Three.
GT: Ninety three and you’ve been still playing —
JG: Up to Christmas I was still playing badminton three times a week. Bowls in the season. Enjoying life. Living. Living the good life. Without a wife.
GT: And it’s marvellous you’ve got your own iPad. You’ve had that five years. You’re on the internet. You’re a very internet savvy man and it’s great to be able to keep up contact with you as I do with you from New Zealand. So —
JG: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Its fabulous, Basil.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Basil, do you look at the service you did to know that the bombing arena of Bomber Command and how they achieved a huge amount of shortening the war against Adolf Hitler. Do you consider they could have done it any other way?
JG: I think they missed opportunities. I think when they went, when they burst the dam, bust the dams they should have gone back and bombed them to stop the rebuilding and they never went back. That was, I think that was a big mistake. I’ve no time for these people who say Dresden was wrong. We’ve all got hindsight. We’re all blessed with hindsight. Bomber Command had a job to do. Unfortunately, Harris takes the blame but he was on instructions from higher authority. We were not the only people who went in to Dresden. I mean we went in to Dresden but the Americans went in two or three times after we’d started it and we went back. Yes. I think we, I think actually we missed out. During the Battle Of Britain we were still throwing .303 bullets at Messerschmitts and they were throwing cannons. If we’d have had .5s or cannon we would have done much better. And it was known. It was known in 1939 that the Spitfire and the Hurricane were [pause] what shall I say? Under armoured. And I don’t know whether you know a very interesting fact that I on the, on the Germany was more [unclear] Germany was far in advance of us on radar. But they used it differently. You know. They were. Their gunnery was absolutely fantastic. Radar controlled. Yeah. Yeah. Ack ack the same. Searchlights the same. We used radar different to them. It’s quite interesting. If you go on to the iPad there’s quite a lot of information on there about German radar. No.
GT: Well, Basil we have covered a good deal of your career, your life, your experiences. I’m certain that the International Bomber Command Centre, the IBCC is going to be very interested in your story and your life. I think we should call it quits now and sign off and thank you very much for chatting with me today and I, I certainly am impressed. I certainly love your story and I’m very honoured to be able to record —
JG: No. No. It’s —
GT: Your history today.
JG: We did, you know I’ve said this before. It’s switched off.
[recording paused]
GT: Go.
JG: Well, you’ve got the fitters.
GT: Yeah. So this is fifteen disciplines.
JG: Fifteen different disciplines. Yeah. You’ve got the air frame people. You’ve got the electricians. The radio mechanics. You’ve got the armourers. You’ve got the safety equipment the WAAFs, the buoyancy. You’ve got the refuellers.
GT: Parachutes.
JG: Refuellers. You’ve then got the airfield control people. You’ve got the cooks. They’re all there. They can’t do without them. You’ve got the medical services. You know. So, I mean what’s that? That’s ten is it? And I could think but the administrators. You need them. There’s so much paperwork. So, I don’t know. I, I could think of painters and other, and other I mean it sounds silly but they’re all there. The storekeepers. The bloke who brings the NAAFI people. All these are different disciplines that go to allowing you the finished article. You know. I will say this. I, a big, a big bone of contention of mine when Doolittle took the bombers to Japan off the carriers eighty crewmen all got a minimum of a medal. All eighty people got a medal. Some of them got higher medals but everybody. The Dambusters. Thirty five medals were given out. Every man who went out there should have had a medal because nobody could, nobody could do on their own what the crew did together, you know. Guy Gibson, for all whatever he was couldn’t have got there without his navigator, couldn’t have got there without his radio operator and probably couldn’t have got down there without his gunners as a protection. So why do you pick one person out for a medal? I was rather aggrieved last year. Johnny Johnson is the last of the Dambusters. He got a medal. Nothing against Johnny Johnson but there was, what was her name? There was a woman. She used to do Countdown. Do you know her name? She got involved. Wanted him to be made a sir or mentioned in the, you know and I said what you should do, forget about, Johnny got his medal, what about using the word getting the medal for all those people who got nothing. Even though they’ve retrospectively they should have all had a medal. Even if, even if they were nowhere and they weren’t alive the family would have appreciated that and it’s something that I feel very strongly about. That they didn’t, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. You know. No man is an island.
GT: The campaign medal for the Bomber Command people has been a strong tidal wave of support for many years and they should, yeah. And it should. Well, I’ll tell you what then Basil it’s something that the medal should have been struck and given to all the Bomber Command people and that’s what hasn’t been done and it’s still ongoing. The fight is still ongoing for it.
JG: A friend of mine he spent a tour on, he was a navigator and he flew a Wellington from England and navigated it all the way out to Egypt. The tragedy is I had his actual log, handwritten log that he had done. He was very precise. He spent a full tour out with the Wellingtons if you like on Bomber Command out from, in the Aden area.
GT: Mediterranean.
JG: He doesn’t get a Bomber Command —
GT: No. No. It’s he gets the Africa Star and the Italy Star is all the Mediterranean Command so —
JG: He doesn’t get anything. But Oliver, Oliver is about four years older than me. I still speak to him. He used to be in the office at work before I moved down here, and they actually forced a U-boat to the surface and it ran aground to save itself. Yeah. I don’t know what Squadron. 108 Squadron something like that flying there but he was a top, top class navigator. And he just gets I don’t know what he gets as a medal, you know.
GT: Yeah.
JG: But yeah.
GT: It is something that should be acknowledged and unfortunately the decision was made in the 1950s and they’ve stuck with it but I am very proud to visit and see and talk with many of the airmen.
JG: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: You are one of the few groundees about and it’s been such a pleasure to chat with you and listen to what you experienced.
JG: Is that off or on?
GT: It’s on. So, so from my point of view now Basil, I think we should complete our interview and then sit and have a cup of tea.
JG: Yeah. Good idea.
GT: But it has been such a pleasure discussing this with you and I thank you.
JG: Yeah.
GT: I thank you much.
JG: Thanks for coming. Yeah.
GT: Any last word you’d like to say?
JG: No. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed my, I enjoyed my RAF career. I enjoy, I enjoy being involved with it now. I think it was a tragedy when they stopped conscription. It should be brought back because nobody, nobody has respect for anything these days. No. It’s always Tom, Dick and Harry. Anyway, I’m pleased to have done what I’ve done.
GT: Thank you. Thank you, Basil.
JG: Let’s have a cup of tea.
GT: Let’s have a cup of tea. Thanks Basil. I’ll package this up for the IBCC and they’ll be —
JG: They’ll probably think some of that’s a load of bloody rubbish, you know.
GT: No way. Thanks Basil. Ok. Good afternoon.
JG: Yeah.
GT: Goodbye.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Basil Goldstraw
Creator
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Glen Turner
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-08
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AGoldstrawBJ180708
Conforms To
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Pending review
Format
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01:21:38 audio recording
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
Description
An account of the resource
Basil Goldstraw was born in Buxton, Derbyshire. He joined the RAF at the age of seventeen to do a motor mechanics apprenticeship. He wanted to join aircrew but was grounded due to a medical condition. After training at Number 3 School of Technical Training he was posted to 75 New Zealand Squadron as an engine fitter and worked on Stirlings. On one occasion he remembers a Ju 88 aircraft that attacked the aerodrome dropping anti-personnel bombs. When 75 Squadron disbanded he was posted to RAF Spilsby to join Tiger Force in the Far East. He flew to Singapore via Malta and Iraq. On completion of his tour he returned to the UK and was demobbed from the RAF.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
75 Squadron
Botha
ground crew
ground personnel
Ju 88
RAF Mepal
RAF Spilsby
Stirling
Tiger force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/900/11140/PJarmyJFD1703.1.jpg
d79a334eec7e8edd1dfa7ded9dc46172
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/900/11140/AJarmyJFD170726.2.mp3
f54aa76abd3793861cf39e00fcebb13f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jarmy, Jack
Jack Francis David Jarmy
J F D Jarmy
Description
An account of the resource
23 items. And oral history interview with Jack Francis David Jarmy DFC (b. 1922, 134695 Royal Air Force) his log books and photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 75 and 218 Squadrons.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jack Jarmy and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Jarmy, JFD
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: Ok. This is Glen Turner from 75 Squadron Association as Secretary and a certified IBCC interviewer interviewing Mr Jack Jarmy and this is for the Digital Archives to be based at Lincoln. And Jack is with me and good evening, Jack.
JJ: Good evening.
GT: Evening. So, I’m going to ask Jack some questions on the history of Jack’s life with Bomber Command in the middle and Jack can we start please by you describing your title and your service number please?
JJ: Say again, sorry?
GT: Your service number and your title.
JJ: Service number.
GT: And your trade.
JJ: Airman’s number 1337329 and officer’s number 134695.
GT: And your trade was RAF navigator.
JJ: My trade was, originally was pilot. U/T pilot.
GT: Great. Jack, can you begin with us please by stating your date of birth, where you were born and your, your years growing up?
JJ: I was, date of birth was 26th of April ’22 in Romford, Essex and I, from the age of twelve I lived with my grandparents. No. From the age of five I lived with my grandparents because my father had died when I was five. Do I go on then to joining the RAF?
GT: Yes.
JJ: I was very keen to join the RAF and I thought initially as a wireless operator but then at the age of eighteen, the very day I was eighteen I was living outside of Portsmouth, I got on my bicycle without telling my grandparents, cycled down to Portsmouth and volunteered for training as a pilot. And I was accepted on the spot actually but I wasn’t officially called up for about another eight months or so.
GT: In, in —
JJ: 1941 that would be.
GT: Jack, how well did you do at school then before that?
JJ: I did very well actually. My last examination at Ilfracombe Grammar School I was first in every subject except one and when we were having to leave my grandparents had to move away to make some money somewhere as their capital was running out the headmaster told me that I was an absolute cert. There were two university places at Cambridge in those days and he said, ‘If you could have stayed here you’d have, without a doubt you would have got one of them.’ But I didn’t know at the time until we got to Portsmouth that I was having to leave school and help in the family shop. So that was a bit of shock needless to say.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: And I did that for three years until I was eighteen and on the very day I was eighteen as I say I went down and joined the RAF and they accepted me when they saw my Grammar School report.
GT: So, all your subjects were fabulous except one.
JJ: I was first in every subject except one.
GT: And what was that?
JJ: I think that was Religious History [laughs]
GT: Fabulous. So, once you’d gone to sign up and they’d accepted you —
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Please continue that story on how long you waited and where you joined up from there.
JJ: Yeah. I waited about, I think seven or eight months before I was called up for attestation in London and then I was in the RAF. So we went to [pause] I’ve got it here. Sorry. I have it here and I can’t bloody well read it. [pause] Terrible this. I’m on the wrong page. Sorry. Oh. [pause] Here we are. 9 Initial Training Wing at Stratford on Avon, is it? Stratford on Avon. I can’t see the dates. If you want to have a look here.
GT: No. That’s alright Jack. So, you were then —
JJ: Initial Training Wing for pilot training. About six weeks and then we went, I went to EFTS at Swindon, Cliffe Pypard where I soloed fairly quickly. And I had done about twenty hours when we were informed that the system was training. They were introducing grading school for everybody but the training would be done overseas. Either in the states, Canada or, or was Africa —?
GT: Rhodesia?
JJ: Rhodesia. That’s right. So, I went across to Canada and we got on the train for three days down to Florida. And I, the first thing they told us that the scheme we were under twenty, a good twenty percent would be washed out at Primary School, another twenty percent at basic and a further twenty percent the final school because that was the way they got, the American way they got all their gunners, navigators etcetera. So I passed out fine in the Stearman at sixty hours. Lots of aerobatics. A lot more than we did in the UK. You could throw the Stearman all over the skies. It was a wonderful biplane. Then I moved on in Montgomery Alabama for basic training and of course I’d only done about seven or eight hours I think and the course ahead of us did a cross country, their final cross country and they ran into a tornado and about twenty nine out of thirty three aircraft crashed. So I think morale was a bit down that morning and when I landed I had a German instructor, Lieutenant [Kloppenstein] and he just said, ‘Mr, you’ve had it.’ Bad landing. And I was fourteen days leave and then back to Canada.
GT: So, he cancelled you from flying training.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Because of one bad landing.
JJ: An American. Virtually one sortie I think, yeah. Twenty percent were being knocked out anyway around about then you see and I’m sure I was shaking. A friend of mine was [unclear] before so we got fourteen days leave and we went down to New Orleans. Hitch hiked down to New Orleans. Then we went back and up to Trenton, Ontario where you were re-selected. Whilst at Trenton I met two pilots who had been washed out at Carlstrom Field, Arcadia, Florida for not being sufficiently doing well and they went back to Canada then and they put them on a pilot’s course and they got their wings whilst I was washing dishes in the officer’s mess [laughs] Met them. Three months and they’d got their wings. That was the system. Anyway, I opted for a navigation course and did well on it and then came back to the UK on the Queen Elizabeth with about fourteen thousand aircrew. Mostly Americans. And we stayed in Harrogate for a few weeks waiting for OTU. I then went to Operational Training Unit. That’s right. Where we all met in a room. About ten of each grade. Navigators, pilots, wireless operators and they just said, ‘Have a chat around and sort yourselves out into crews,’ which we did.
GT: So, so, Jack if we could just confirm the dates on here.
JJ: Ok.
GT: So, I’m, I’m just looking at your logbooks.
JJ: You’ve got the dates there, I think.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: So as a navigator January 1943 and you were then arrived at number 11 OTU at Oakley.
JJ: Oakley. That’s right.
GT: Yeah. April 25th 1943. So please tell us how you crewed up.
JJ: We just walked around with a cup of tea and chatted to people and mostly the pilots would say, ‘Would you like to fly with me?’ And this New Zealand sergeant came up to me and said, ‘Would you like to fly with me, sir.’ Because I was a pilot officer [laughs] And he seemed a nice fellow you know and I said, ‘Yeah, fine.’ And then we walked around and found a bomb aimer and a wireless operator. You didn’t get engineers then until you got to Dishforth training on to four engine aircraft. We picked up an engineer there. So we did the, the Wellington training cross countries and circuits and bumps etcetera. And then we went to Dishforth. 1335 or something HCU. Heavy Conversion Unit to convert on to the Stirling.
GT: Ok. Now, again looking —
JJ: Did I say Dishforth? Sorry no.
GT: From your logbook Jack can I just help you for a moment there? I’ve got there —
JJ: Near Cambridge.
GT: Yeah. Now, you, you completed with the Wellingtons forty seven hours day and twenty eight night and then you moved to 1651.
JJ: That’s right. 1665.
GT: 1651 Conversion Unit at Waterbeach.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: And there —
JJ: Waterbeach.
GT: That was July 1943 and you converted to what?
JJ: Converted on to the Stirling at Waterbeach and then we were posted to 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mepal.
GT: And your logbook says July 25th 1943.
JJ: Was it as late as that?
GT: Yeah.
JJ: I thought it was earlier.
GT: And then, then you became —
JJ: That was probably the first flight.
GT: You began your operations then did you not? So —
JJ: Immediately. Yeah.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: That’s right.
GT: And who was the —
JJ: You just —
GT: Commanding officer at the time, Jack.
JJ: Pardon?
GT: Who was the commanding officer at the time for you?
JJ: Roy Max I’m sure. A wonderful fellow. Absolutely wonderful. I met him later on. It was the first time an officer had called me by my first name. We just walked into his office and he says, ‘Hello Jack,’ you know, ‘Pleased to meet you.’ No officer of any rank [laughs] and I’d been in for about a year had called me by my first name before. He was wonderful. We loved him. Yeah.
GT: Fabulous. And is there —
JJ: A marvellous CO you know.
GT: And you, you completed your tour of how many operations on 75?
JJ: I think it was about twenty six because we went in to, we called it Prayer Meeting about 9 o’clock every morning which was just a meeting you know. It wasn’t no prayers or anything and the CO said, ‘Flight Sergeant Mayfield —’ and there was another crew, ‘You’ve finished your tours.’ And we sort of thought, ‘You’re joking.’ And he said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘3 Group has decided you, you know you’ve done a good tour and they’d like you to, well they want you to finish your tour now.’ So we couldn’t believe it you know. We thought we’re going to live after all [laughs] which you didn’t think you were before that you know. We lost so many crews. I think we lost twenty two out of, two out of twenty two every night.
GT: 75 New Zealand squadron at the time and they were based —
JJ: Yeah.
GT: At Newmarket for you or Mepal?
JJ: No. Mepal. They’d just moved to Mepal when I joined them. Yeah.
GT: That was a brand new airfield.
JJ: A new airfield. There was mud everywhere, you know and we were in Nissen huts but that was alright.
GT: And it had a rather terrible nickname at the time.
JJ: They were known as the Chop Squadron in 3 Group. Everybody knew 75 for some reason as the Chop Squadron because they lost so many crews. But there was nothing wrong with the crews. They were absolutely first class wonderful chaps. Never flown with anyone better and we were just, somebody had to be unlucky and it seemed that we were whether we were the start of a raid or the end of the raid, wave or something we just [pause] I’m sure one night we lost three crews. One had done twenty seven, it sticks in my memory and they were almost finished their tour. One at twenty three and I think the other one was fourteen and I think at the time we’d done thirteen. We were then the senior crew on the squadron. But three best crews like that just went. A fighter or something must have got into them you know. They were close together. But they were first class crews you know. But it wasn’t very good for morale. We lost our radio operator after one trip actually. He went LMF and we had another w/op and two more trips he went LMF. They disappeared over night, you know. You didn’t see them to say, ‘Goodbye mate.’ One was Wally [Gee] I remember. He was twenty seven. We called him grandad. He was older than we were at twenty, twenty one but a nice lad but he got the shakes and he couldn’t do anything when we got back in the circuit and he was gone in the morning and the other one the same. There was quite a lot of LMF at the time. People couldn’t cope, you know.
GT: What, what was the feeling about the aircraft? The Stirling itself. Was there a doubt?
JJ: We liked it you know. We came back several times on three engines and once on two you know and the only trouble was you rarely got about fourteen thousand six hundred feet because you know they’d had this trouble. They’d locked off, had to lop off the wingtips. They couldn’t get them in the hangar before they went in to service. And it couldn’t get the height with the bomb load. You couldn’t get, rarely got to fifteen thousand. I think we got to fifteen thousand on the trip to Turin in the cold air over the Alps. But the rest of the time it was about fourteen six for bombing. Halifaxes at eighteen and Lancs at twenty, twenty one.
GT: Were all your operations at night?
JJ: Yeah. In the first tour.
GT: And did you encounter night fighters at all?
JJ: Oh, a lot, yes. We were, we had some very close deals you know with night fighters coming in but luckily the rear gunners were good. They seemed to go somewhere else you know. Sprayed. We always came back with holes, flak holes in the wings and everywhere. Holes everywhere in fact. But, and I think about three times we had to corkscrew with a gunner coming in and you’d lose about a thousand feet like this, you know. And if you were coned the Germans, had some searchlights that were on radar and if you were coned you had a devil of a job and you were a sitting target for the night fighters then. So you did a terrific, lost a thousand feet or so over ninety degrees down and then up and my stuff on the navigation table would all hit the roof. I was hanging on to the table. I would have hit the roof. But pencils and paper and everything went up and down on the floor but you were lucky. You avoided being shot down.
GT: That was your tail gunner yelling, ‘Skipper corkscrew left or right.’
JJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did it immediately.
GT: Could you hear him? Could you brace yourself?
JJ: Oh yes. ‘Corkscrew.’ So you grabbed the desk you know and you went over and down about a thousand feet and then up again and it seemed to work every time. You evaded the fighter or the searchlights. It happened I would think on the first tour at least six times because I remember blooming charts and everything going up to the roof. Trying to hang on.
GT: Was your skipper good at that?
JJ: Very very good. He was first class. Cool as a cucumber. No bother. He was. We had the utmost trust in him. He was a very good pilot. Very good. Yeah. Alan. Wonderful. I was so sorry I couldn’t get in touch with him at the end of the war, you know. I’d have liked to have done.
GT: Several, several other chaps have told me of a story of being on the toilet can in the back when a corkscrew happened and it wasn’t very pleasant so —
JJ: No [laughs] it wouldn’t be. No. Had to make your way down to the toilet you know in pitch darkness. Climb over the spar and feel your way down. They used to say take an oxygen bottle with you. I just took two deep breaths, you know and then had a whiff down there and then came back. Usually managed to wait until after the target area to go for a wee. I couldn’t do that nowadays.
GT: Yeah. Fabulous. So —
JJ: But they had a wonderful spirit in the crew despite all these losses. In all the crews you know. The only words you ever heard at breakfast someone would say, ‘Poor old Gerald Smith and Dick Tracey bought it last night.’ And that was what we always said. ‘Bought it last night.’ And that was it. You didn’t talk any more about it. I think you couldn’t. It would have upset you you know where they’d gone. You just hoped they’d baled out but you never knew. We never had the messages back. That was just, that’s all you ever said. So and so bought it last night. Oh God. Hard luck. Then you got on with your job. You had to.
GT: What was it like flying into Newmarket because I understand —
JJ: I didn’t fly from Newmarket. Mepal.
GT: I beg your pardon. Mepal.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: You were flying out of Mepal then and you had Witchford next door.
JJ: That’s right.
GT: So did the two airfields conflict at all?
JJ: Then when we came back we did a circuit around the two airfields. So there were about forty aircraft milling around and sometimes you had to put your lights out because there would be a Jerry around you know. A fighter. And, and often VHF was so bad then, the HF was the wireless operator would get the ok to go in and land, you know on the Morse. The voice communications were terrible then in ‘43. They improved later.
GT: Because Lincoln always had their cathedral to home by. What did Mepal have that you guys could home in on?
JJ: We had a light. A flashing light, you know. What do you call it? I can’t think of the light giving the two letters of the airfield.
GT: The aldis lamp.
JJ: You had, you had Gee. Gee was just starting up. The first Gee we had the Mark 1. It was terrible, of course. It wouldn’t, you would just set it up and ten minutes later it would go off frequency. But fairly quickly after in that first tour we got Mark 2 Gee and that was a great help and that was good for getting back to base. It was wonderful. You could just home down easily. It was really good if that was working and it usually was. It was a wonderful aid that was. We got that going out as far as the Dutch Coast and then you lost it so you could get good winds as far as the Dutch Coast and then you were on dead reckoning and guessing what the winds were from what they’d been wrong. The Met winds were always thirty degrees out and ten miles an hour but they were something to start with. But you usually got a wind, a good wind by the time you touched the Dutch coast from the Gee. We took pictures back I think about every four minutes or something like that while you’d still got it. Wonderful aid.
GT: And what about the the Ely church or the spire from the Ely side of things.
JJ: I don’t think we ever saw that.
GT: You couldn’t see it.
JJ: No.
GT: No.
JJ: No. We did training on it on our next tour with GH. I’ve got a lovely photograph with the tower right bang in the middle because I was the GH leader in the second tour on 218.
GT: Right. Well, I’ve got you completing your tour —
JJ: December.
GT: Well, November 26th was your last flight with 75 New Zealand squadron out of Mepal.
JJ: ’43.
GT: In 1943.
JJ: That’s right.
GT: Yeah. And, and from there where did you move to from there because your crew was —
JJ: I went direct. Myself and my bomb aimer both went to Lancaster Finishing School which was at Feltwell as instructors and my pilot went to another airfield not far away. I can’t remember where because later on one night we cycled over there and then got caught by a policeman coming back. Funny story. Do you want to hear that?
GT: Please. I’d love to.
JJ: Right. Jock Somerville, the bomb aimer and myself got a call from Alan Mayfield one day to say he’d just been commissioned because he was just a flight sergeant when he went to, I can’t think of the name of the airfield. It was only about six miles away. And he said, ‘I’ve just been commissioned. Can you get a bicycle and come over for Sunday tea?’ So we got the out the old [Senda] bike you know and we went off on the Sunday afternoon for tea. We didn’t drink. No one was really drunk in those days you know. All the times on the first tour I never had a drink of spirits or beer or anything. I don’t think the majority of the rest of the crew did. Alan Mayfield didn’t. It was difficult. I was in the officer’s mess and the rest of the crew were in the sergeant’s you see so you couldn’t have much to do with one another other than crew room and what not. But we all got on so well together but so we went over to Chedburgh would it have been? No. Not Chedburgh. That’s where I did my second tour. I can’t think of the name. Six miles away roughly. So we went over and then he said, ‘Well, you know, stay for dinner, you know.’ So we stayed for dinner and I think we did have a couple of beers because he’d been commissioned. So we were on our way back to Feltwell and there was a light ahead of us waving so we slowed up and there was a blooming policeman in the middle of the road. So, I don’t know whether Jock or I said, ‘Go.’ And he went one side of the policeman pedalling like mad and I went the other and we went about thirty yards and there was a barrier across the road [laughs] I had to stop. So of course, the policeman came along and you know we said, ‘Well, we’ve been a year, or you know, months bombing over Germany. We’ve just had a rest now.’ And he said, ‘I’m sorry. I’ll have to take your names.’ And we thought that was the end of it. We cycled on and I was lecturing about 2 o’clock in the afternoon. There was a tap on the door and there was this blooming policeman and oh, Jock had said his name was Smith and I said it was Jones [laughs] So he said, ‘Are you Mr Jack Jones.’ And I said, ‘I’m afraid so.’ He said, ‘I’m sorry but you’re going to be summoned.’ And believe it or not we were summoned to the local court for riding a bicycle without lights at 11 o’clock at night on a country road with no, no traffic or anything at all. Well, I went into Ely Hospital to have my tonsils out then. I’d had some throat trouble. Jock went along to the court and he was fined ten shillings. And then they called my name and Jock explained that I was in hospital and the judge said, ‘Fifteen shillings.’ Well, Jock was a very fiery Scotsman and he jumped up and he said, ‘You can’t do that. We were both together and you fined me ten shillings and fifteen shillings for him.’ Well, the judge said, ‘Very well, you can find, you can pay fifteen shillings as well.’ [laughs] You can’t believe it can you? In the middle of the war.
GT: Astonishing. Jeez. So —
JJ: It was quite a joke.
GT: What a joke. Jack, I’m looking through your logbook and you joined Number 3 Lancaster Finishing School at Feltwell.
JJ: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: January 8, 1944 and, and pretty much you spent all year there. Is that correct?
JJ: Yeah. Ten, ten months before I was back on ops.
GT: So how many crews would you have trained or lectured or shown?
JJ: I think the crews came for a month because they did quite a bit of circuits and bumps and then they did a couple of cross countries and then went off. Crews coming mostly from the, from Cambridge you know. There.
GT: So, you’d done a full tour on Stirlings and then went to a Lancaster Finishing School.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Where did you get your Lancaster training from or didn’t it matter?
JJ: Oh, it just, well I mean the equipment was all the same. It was no bother. You just got in. We didn’t do much. Sometimes I flew on a cross country with a crew but that was just finishing. Most of it was circuits and bumps and lecturing in the, you know, ground school lecturing. The information you could give them. How to, you know, be sure and keep on track, not to stray off because they picked up the strays and other little tips you learned from navigating, you know. How important it was to keep in the main stream and not get out of it. Things like that we used to give them. Other odds and ends. There wasn’t a lot of Ground School but they did a couple of cross countries and we had to mark them of course and you know help them with any tips or anything on navigating. It was mainly after you crossed the coast you were on your own. You hardly got a fix on anything you see. You couldn’t get anything. You couldn’t anything in the Astro. I used to do a bit of Astro coming back but not on the way out to the target. Bomb aimer would look out and he would see probably fifteen miles away flak going up. Someone had gone off track and you knew that that was some town you know or other and you could get a bearing. He’d give me a bearing on that on the astrocompass. And that was a good ground speed check or something like that you see as you went out and you just used your Met knowledge mainly to think what the winds had changed to and then you always got a good fix over the target. That’s why I never got into the astrodome except once because you got a fix there and you got your, you could get a good wind for the last three or four hundred miles you see to use on the way back.
GT: So your bomb aimer helped you with a lot of the navigational help.
JJ: With the visual. If we, if it was clear he might be able to see crossing a river on the way just if the moonlight was out. He could say, ‘We’re crossing a river now.’ And that was a great help. You could look it up on the topographical map and that would be a hell of a good help and give an estimate, ‘Oh, there’s a town over — ’ And he’d take a bearing on it with the astrocompass coming up and say I would think it was about, you know just a guess ten or twelve miles away. Well, that was a great help. One of the greatest things was you knew if you got a lot of buffeting from time to time you knew you were in the main stream then, you know. There’s about six hundred other aircraft going that way. So you were delighted to get a bump, you know. You knew you weren’t far away from the from the main stream.
GT: When you were in the main stream did you have aircraft above you and therefore they were dropping their bombs? Did you have any near misses in that way?
JJ: We had a very near miss. I’m not sure if it was first tour or second on Peenemunde. The end of the tour I think. You know there was the rocket range there. It’s the first tour wasn’t it?
GT: So that was the V-1 flying Doodlebugs.
JJ: No. The V-2.
GT: It was the V-2s was it?
JJ: V-2s they were developing there. I think they’d done the V-1 already. Is Peenemunde? I think. I thought Peenemunde was on the first tour.
GT: Ok. So, so what happened there? The bombs went past you.
JJ: We flew up nearly to Sweden and then we were bombing from eight thousand feet coming in and the Stirlings were on the first wave. Have you found Peenemunde?
GT: That’s fine. You carry on telling the story and I’ll see.
JJ: It was the first time I’d managed to get into the astrodome because it was fairly quiet flying in. There wasn’t a lot of flak or anything and I looked up and saw a Lancaster just above us probably not more than sixty or seventy feet, maybe a hundred feet with bomb doors, bomb doors open and I screamed at the pilot, ‘Turn hard starboard now, now, now.’ And he immediately went up and as the wing went up the stick of bombs went down about twenty yards. Where we’d been. And they would all have gone through us. You see, the bomb aimer’s looking ahead. Doesn’t see something here. And that was a Lancaster actually. I reckon he was early on target. He shouldn’t have been above us. We were just eight thousand feet but that was the nearest we ever had of having bombs through the wing. I certainly wouldn’t have been here now if I hadn’t gone into that astrodome. You see the mid-upper gunner is busy looking around at his level for fighters and didn’t think to look up. But it was a very close shave.
GT: Great.
JJ: It didn’t miss us by more than twenty yards I reckon. You could see every five hundred pounder going down.
GT: Your bomb loads that you had was there anything special or everything was just cookies, five hundreds?
JJ: Usually had a cookie. Four thousand. Four thousand and made up of five hundreds and incendiaries depending on what the target was, you know. Occasionally a few thousand pounders but mainly five hundreds.
GT: Did you do any special ops or was it all just standard?
JJ: No, it was all, the first tour was all standard targets. Yeah.
GT: So, from your time with Lancaster Finishing School did the crews come to you brand new from joining up or —
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Were there a mixture of experienced —
JJ: Yeah. No. Virtually no experience. They were all new trainees. There might be the odd pilot or the odd navigator doing a second tour. The odd pilot doing a second tour. But nearly everybody coming through LFS when I was there were first tour people, you know. They’d come from overseas, done OTU, conversion on to the Stirling at Cambridge and then they came to us to fly the Lancs.
GT: So once you’d finished at LFS was that your choice and did you apply for another tour?
JJ: No. You didn’t apply. You just went where you were told. Yeah.
GT: So they put you on a second tour without you asking.
JJ: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they just came through one day. December wasn’t it? Just before Christmas and said, ‘You’re posted to 218 Squadron.’ And I was off in about a week. Had a week’s leave and away we went. But I was delighted to get on the Lanc you know. Such a good aeroplane to fly. You know the Stirling soared up at this angle and you had a job to climb in. We had faith in the Stirling but we, I don’t know we knew that we’d have been better on Lancasters, you know. We just because the height you know. You got the light flak. You got all everything at fourteen thousand five hundred feet or so.
GT: What was your main height for the Lancaster bombing raids?
JJ: They were more about eighteen. Usually about eighteen or nineteen. You could get it up to twenty one but usually bombing height was eighteen or nineteen. We did quite a lot of daylight raids in ’45 on 218 and we, we qualified as a marker, GH marker so we had two aircraft formating on us. A daylight raid you had one either side. You know, a few yards off and then you had to watch us and push the bomb tit as our bombs went and even though the bomb aimer could see the aiming point he wasn’t allowed to push the tit until I said. On the GH was very accurate. You had two intersecting lines. You kept yourself on one and then said, ‘Bomb now.’ You know and you pushed the tit for the bombs. Lots on bridges and specialised targets. Mainly on bridge crossings it was in the book there, I think. Shorter trips. And of course, we had a bit of fighter cover as well so it was a lot safer. The losses weren’t anything like they were on Stirlings in ’44. ’43/44 was a bad time for everybody wasn’t it?
GT: So, the aircraft numbers for instance. Each, each squadron generally had twelve aircraft per flight.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: So 75 Squadron had three flights of twelve. Did 218 Squadron have that many and how many did you fly?
JJ: No. Two flights I’m sure. 218.
GT: Ok. You might have gone up with twenty four aircraft a night. Or a day trip perhaps.
JJ: Say again.
GT: Did you fly with twenty four aircraft all the time?
JJ: No. You know, there was always two U/S or something or you hadn’t the crews. If you lost two crews and two new crews would arrive that day. I think on average we put up twenty. Twenty aircraft. Sometimes twenty one and very occasionally twenty two but usually it was about twenty aircraft.
GT: Can you describe for me the purpose of a pilot from a new crew arriving and going as a second dickie? Can you describe that for me?
JJ: Well, all the pilot did when you arrived on the squadron your pilot went as a second dickie with an experienced crew just to get the feel of the thing. See what it was like, you know and learn a few tips on flying and corkscrewing and that sort of thing. And then you were on your own. And you always, I think you always did two mining trips. You did what do you call it? Probably got the name in there. You did a mining trip to just off Germany. The islands there.
GT: They did some gardening.
JJ: Gardening. It’s called gardening. That’s right. So you did that low. You dropped them from I think about a thousand feet. They were on parachutes you know and you got to the area, you got quite a lot of flak on that first area. There must have been a lot of ships around us. And we, I can’t remember if it was two or four and then we did a second gardening trip down to Bordeaux and we were coming back fairly low because we’d dropped the things low. And it was a nice moonlight night and bomb aimer was sitting in the nose then and he said, ‘There’s a train down below skipper. Let’s go down and shoot it up.’ So we did and we blew it up. When we got back to debriefing the intelligence officers said, ‘Don’t you ever do that again because they’re equipping most of the trains with, you know machine guns and whatnot because the fighters had been doing a lot of this and the train had got a chap with four Bofors guns or something and you hadn’t got a chance if you flew in at a hundred and twenty miles an hour. So we thought we’d done well, you know. We were thinking everybody was going to say, ‘Well done.’ [laughs] But they said, ‘Don’t ever do it again.’
GT: You got lucky.
JJ: It was quite fun to see this train blow up.
GT: Some crews have told me that they did a whole tour without using their nose guns. Did you in your tours did they use them at all?
JJ: That’s the only time we used it. On the train. Nose and the tail. Yeah. No. We never saw anything in front. Fighters came up behind you and underneath you see. So no bomb aimer never fired those guns. He used to test them and that was all.
GT: And that was going to be my next question. Do those that man those guns in the nose was generally going to be the bomb aimer if —
JJ: The bomb aimer in the front.
GT: If he needed to.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So going into your second tour then Jack so you were posted off to 218 Gold Coast Squadron.
JJ: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: And Gold Coast is Australian or South African?
JJ: South Africa.
GT: South African side.
JJ: I think. I’m sure it was South African.
GT: And there was a South African connection like New Zealand had.
JJ: There must have been some connection in, you know a lot earlier. They had Gold Coast in brackets for some reason or other. We never met anybody from the Gold Coast or anything. It was probably the first war. They might have provided some people. Fighters or something and they kept the name going when they resurrected it anyway.
GT: So when you were posted on did you get a choice of a crew or did you just get given?
JJ: No. I was posted. Posted there and arrived and, ‘This is your crew.’ You know. The pilot was a first tour. I was second tour and the two air gunners were second tour. Great chaps. They were a bit older than me. They were thirty one and they’d both been gunnery leaders on different, you know, in between and they were first class they were. So —
GT: Your logbook shows that you, you did, you arrived there in February 1945.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: And you continued on from your first tour of twenty one ops and you did your twenty second op on February the 7th. So —
JJ: That’s right.
GT: So was there anything outstanding about 218? Anything that you remember that was of note.
JJ: Well, I don’t want it to go in the book. The CO. Are you recording?
GT: Yes.
JJ: No. I won’t say anything.
GT: Ok. Whatever.
JJ: I’ll tell you afterwards. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So, so you got various. I can see day and night flights here.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: And —
JJ: We had a good, we had a good crew. We had two excellent gunners and we did get the odd other attack. I think I did a Berlin trip there didn’t we? Yeah.
GT: Right. So, I’ve got your second operational tour was completed on the 24th of April 1945 and your total operational hours by day sixty eight hours and total operational nights fifty hours. Total grand operational hours a hundred and nineteen and ten minutes.
JJ: That was a full tour anyway for me and a second tour was, was that.
GT: Now, for your work you were awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: Can you tell me about that please?
JJ: There’s not much to say. I think I’d probably been a good navigator. Good results, you know from our bombing and everything. So for some reason or other I was awarded the DFC. Nobody else in either of the crews was actually so I think, I think I was a good navigator. We didn’t have any problems. We had one dicey coming back trip when we were on two engines coming across France and the engineer said we were losing fuel. We’d been shot up a bit. I can’t remember which, I think we landed right at the end. Bradwell Bay. And coming across France and I managed to pick out a diversion airfield and got us there and as we’d taxied around the, as we were going in to land the engineer said the tanks are just about empty. As we taxied around the runway all four engines cut. Another five minutes and we wouldn’t be here now anyway.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: We’d have stalled out but we’d had, we knew we were losing fuel you know and we’d had fighter attacks and whatnot but we couldn’t do anything about it. We just made it to the South Coast so that was Bradwell Bay. So we went, left the aircraft and went back on the train with parachutes and everything else [laughs] nav bags and sextant.
GT: Were your aircraft replaced pretty quickly if you lost any?
JJ: Yeah. We didn’t usually fly in the same aircraft. At 218 we did. We had Queenie that had done about fifty, sixty trips and we did quite a few trips in Queenie. And she features in some of the post-war picture books, you know. That one lasted, oh it was just about the end of the war when we finished anyway. But otherwise, you know we never had an aircraft last long enough you were different aircraft nearly every, pretty well every night.
GT: Your logbook shows Queenie to be LM577 and your total operational tally of sorties was forty one.
JJ: I don’t know.
GT: Now, for me that’s, the use of the word mission was —
JJ: No.
GT: Was not correct and you guys did operations.
JJ: Yeah. We didn’t call it missions. The Americans called it missions. We never used the word mission. No. So many ops was the term. Nobody ever used missions. No.
GT: Fabulous. Alright so and then once you had finished your last operation, your forty first one there and that was April 1945 what happened to you after that? Was it VE day to come?
JJ: I was posted. No. It was just before and I was first tour, second tour you see. The rest of the crew and the gunners were second tour. They told us we’d finished our tour. The pilot and the engineer and the wireless operator hadn’t finished. They were on their first tour so they were left and they, I went on leave for a fortnight and when I came back they started dropping the food to the Dutch. So I went along to see the CO and said, ‘I’m posted up to Catterick, you know to get me out of the way. I’d like to stay and fly with my crew.’ Well, I don’t want this to go on the — turn it off.
GT: Ok.
[recording paused]
JJ: Ok. I think the flight commander or the station commander must have put up for the DFC because I got it just, just before I finished my tour and I was the only member of that crew to get one and my other crew hadn’t either. First tour. So I had to be off to Catterick to Selection Board trying to find someone to take the place of all the bank managers and people who had been doing admin jobs. So I was sent off to be adjutant at [pause] it was near Lincoln. Fighter Sector Headquarters. Wonderful. I thought my God some people have had an easy job. It was a Fighter Sector with about sixty, seventy girls and about ten airmen and a group captain, a wing commander and a squadron leader in charge of it. And they had Group Captain Arthur Donaldson as head of them. A fighter man. Wonderful chap and he insisted on having a beer every lunchtime actually [laughs] And it only lasted about three months I think and they closed the station down, you know. They didn’t need Fighter Sector Headquarters any more. And I went from there to Molesworth which was 1335 Conversion Unit for Meteors. Jets.
GT: Now we’re talking February 1946.
JJ: That’s right. And I was the first navigator to fly in a, in a jet because they converted one on the station. The engineering officer went for the first trip and I went up for the second. That was before they had dual seats in the, in the Meteors. Wonderful. Zoom. I loved it.
GT: I’m looking at your logbook and that flight was October the 16th 1946 in EE229 Meteor 1 and your pilot was Flight Lieutenant Williams. That’s pretty fair for twenty minutes. Yeah.
JJ: Yeah. I was —
GT: So with your DFC, Jack did you get handed it or did you have to go and get —
JJ: No. I got the letter from the, signed by George, you know saying I’m sorry I can’t give it to you.
GT: In person.
JJ: But well done. That sort of thing.
GT: You didn’t have to go down to the —
JJ: Didn’t have to go down to the Palace. No. No.
GT: So, did your CO just pin it on you or —
JJ: No. Just got it in the post I think. I can’t remember the CO giving it to me.
GT: God.
JJ: He might have done but he wasn’t on the squadron, you see. I’d moved on.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Admin jobs and whatnot there.
GT: So after the war had finished were you given an option to carry on? And you were what rank by then?
JJ: I was flight lieutenant then.
GT: Ok.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: So did you get given an option to stay on in the peacetime?
JJ: No. Just with your age they just said, you know, ‘You won’t be demobbed for another year or so.’ So then I went from [pause] I went down to Chivenor as adjutant. I went to I think Molesworth first. That’s right. Molesworth and Bentwaters. That’s where we had the Jet Training Unit. Yeah. And from Bentwaters, oh I had a chat on the phone to the [unclear] people at Command one day. They were very friendly you know and they said, ‘Is there anything you wanted to do?’ And I said, ‘Well, I want to get back on flying.’ They said, ‘We can’t do that but there’s a job going as adjutant down at Chivenor.’ So that was the Spitfire OTU sort of thing you know. They were still converting people then flying Spits. So I went down to Chivenor and I seemed to get on well with the CO there who hadn’t been a flying man during the war. He was a very nice man but we had several Spit accidents you know and I had to arrange funerals and things. Totally new. Never had any experience of all these jobs and one day he said, ‘Would you like to apply for a permanent commission?’ I think I’d been there about six months. He said, ‘I’ll recommend you if you like.’ So I was delighted. Didn’t really know what I was going to do when I went there. I wanted some different job than the one I’d been doing before you know and I hadn’t had any training. And I got a permanent commission while I was there you know. Group Captain Whitfield or something. Something like that. I can’t remember his name. But I don’t think I did any, I don’t think they had, they had an Oxford or something there I flew around in but not very much. I think I did about eighteen months there and I was constantly court martials and things. Talking to the [unclear] people at Command and I always said, ‘When am I going back on flying?’ And they came up one day and said, ‘We can’t get you back into Bomber Command. We don’t move people there.’ From where I was it was fighter I think or something or training but he said, ‘Would you like to go on to Hastings?’ I had to do all refresher courses because I’d been off flying for about three years. So I went to Swinderby on Wellingtons and then Hastings up at [pause] oh dear. By the Great North Road. You’ve got it there. Dishforth. And another refresher course at somewhere. Somewhere near there. Anyway, Dishforth was the Hastings course and I went to a squadron. 511 Squadron at Lyneham on the Hastings and I loved it and I’ve still got a, you know you had a grading system. You had to pass exams. I was sort of a fully fledged passenger and everything else. We did trips to Singapore. The Middle East mainly. Usually did about one trip a month or two months to Singapore. Did lots of trips to the Middle East freight and passengers. A lot of passengers.
GT: Jack, I’ve got you 241 OCU. You were there from December 31, 1949. And you —
JJ: About three months.
GT: You flew right there to the end of March 1950 and then you joined 511 Squadron.
JJ: 511 Squadron.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: That’s right.
GT: April 1950.
JJ: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: And you flew with them right through to [pause] well your logbook goes on up until 1952. So you were flying all over the world with the Hastings.
JJ: Yeah. Mainly the Far East. Not the world but I think we did one trip to America. I can’t remember now. Maybe not. I think we went to the Azores but I can’t remember. But mainly it was to the Middle East and the Far East. I went to Japan. The war was on then and we took winter vests out for the British who had been sent out in the middle of winter without any winter clothing. And we actually arrived there the day before Christmas and we said, they said, ‘Oh, you needn’t fly over on Christmas day.’ It was an American base you see. And we said, ‘Well these chaps need these vests. We’ll go.’ So on Christmas Day we flew over to Tokyo and we had to orbit for fifty minutes before we landed. The jets, American fighter jets were just around and around you know. The Korean War. We landed. They all came over because they hadn’t seen an aeroplane sitting up like this before [laughs] They were quite surprised. Wondered what it was and then we went back and went into the mess and they said, ‘Sorry they had lunch at lunchtime. There’s no food.’ [laughs] At that time funnily enough I had an American pilot on an exchange scheme, a Polish co-pilot and an Irish wireless operator and we had a bottle of whisky between us and went to bed. That was our Christmas. Christmas dinner. We hadn’t had any food over in Tokyo. You know. Too busy. But that was something to remember.
GT: So then you moved over to, I see Valettas. What squadron were you with there?
JJ: Valettas. Oh, what did I do in between?
GT: In Libya.
JJ: Libya. Yeah. I went out to, I was posted out to Castel Benito in Libya as adjutant and I was promoted there after about six months to squadron leader. So I was posted down to the Canal Zone and I was in charge of the, mainly with the Army dropping paratroops and doing the routes down to Livingstone and all over the place there for a bit. And then for some reason or other, oh that was it the senior admin officer at Shallufa down in the Canal Zone was repatriated for inefficiency or something like that and I was sent down as senior admin officer. There was a wing commander there and we had the Lincolns used to come out and do their bombing on the bombing range there. So I was there until probably about eighteen months. The station closed down and I actually handed over to the Egyptians and they’d all been trained at Cranwell. There was about six majors came along. Everybody on the station had gone except myself then and the Egyptians arrived and our lads, a few left to guard the place were flown home and I handed over to these Egyptians. So I’d laid on a lunch for them and it was a good lunch and the first thing they said was, ‘Have you got any whisky?’ And we brought out, luckily we’d got a crate of whisky left and they all had whisky. Lots of whisky with their lunch. Then we brought the flag down and put theirs up and I was off to Fayid. And I’d left my car. I’d bought a car at Castel Benito and I had to leave it there for eighteen months but the young MT officer used to look after it for me and I arrived back and the family were actually out there then. They did come out to Shallufa. The wife and the two boys about five and six. So we all flew back to Shallufa and I said, ‘I’m not putting my car on a boat and taking it home. I’m driving home.’ And I got the ok to drive all the way. Five thousand miles. North African coast, back through France and I arrived back about two days before Christmas Day. It took us six weeks and lo couldn’t get any film to take any pictures on the way but it all went fine, you know. We’d find a little hotel every night and booked into it. Oh, the young, we had a great help. The young MT officer was going out of the Service and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘You couldn’t find room for me?’ I had the Ford Zephyr. A big car. I had big cases on the top you know and I said, ‘Oh, we can squeeze you in, Norman.’ So he came with us. Well, before we got to Algiers he said, ‘You know, the engine’s making a nasty noise. I think you’d better stop.’ So I stopped and he dipped the, I didn’t know there was a dipstick for the engine oil. The oil. Gear oil. It was dry. So he said if we’d gone on another ten miles it would have seized up. So he went, he hitchhiked about twenty miles into one of the towns. I can’t think of which one. He said, ‘I couldn’t get the proper oil. I got some oil. That’ll get us to the next town.’ And it did and we got, there was a Ford dealer there you know and Northern Algiers. It wasn’t as far as that. No. I can’t remember where it was. Anyway, we got the car checked over and it was ok and filled up with the proper oil and we carried on. Crossed over from Tangier to Gib. My eldest son, it was misty, it was just before Christmas and suddenly Gibraltar appeared. I knew the skipper of the ship because I’d met him when he was on Hastings. He used to come in the mess you see. And two days later we were in what’s the [pause] Malaga. That’s right. David who was about six and a half then. He said, ‘You know dad. I’m going to join the Navy.’ It was this strip across, you know just the thing from, so I said, ‘You’re not joining the Navy until you go to university.’ But he applied to Dartmouth and was accepted. He served a year. He loved it but he said, he came home one day and he said, ‘Dad, I’m not going to be a normal Naval officer.’ It was a bit snotty you know and he liked to do what he liked and when he liked and he said, ‘I think I want to come out.’ So I saw his CO who said, he was doing engineering he said, ‘If he doesn’t come out within three months they won’t let him out because he was doing all the, getting all this training.’ He’d just done the service training. So anyway, we didn’t have to pay much but we got him out and he applied for university and all three accepted him. He went to Swansea and got a good degree in engineering and he’s the one who’s in America now. Seventy years old. Still working. Loving it.
GT: Well —
JJ: Teaching you know modern electronics and whatnot to everybody.
GT: Well, military is obviously in your family Jack and I’m looking at your logbook from 1954 in Shallufa and I can see the aircraft types range from the Hastings to the Valetta, Beaufighter and Pembroke.
JJ: Oh, we had the Beaufighter at Shallufa.
So the, well where was that from?
JJ: Used to go down and the CO flew in and I went with him and we used to go down and get fruit and veg from Akaba because the Egyptians wouldn’t let us buy any local fruit and veg. The NAAFI. So we used to go and fill it up there. Probably got a bit of whisky as well I think.
GT: So, by, by March 1955 you were back in England and it says here you were based in [Khormaksar?]. What aircraft types did you work on from there and where did you move to?
JJ: I went to 18 Group when I came back from first of all from the Middle East. I can’t remember which station. 18 Group were the headquarters at near Rosyth. Pitreavie Castle. That was it. It was the headquarters and it controlled all the aircraft in the Atlantic you know. All the Shackletons and everybody else in the Atlantic. Anti-submarine warfare. And there again I said, ‘Can I get back flying on Transport Command?’ And again the [unclear] people said, ‘We can’t. The Air Ministry do that. But if you like we can get you on to Shackletons.’ So I jumped at it and I went up to Kinloss and did the Shackleton course and I went to Ballykelly as a flight commander then for about two years.
GT: Two years on Shackletons.
JJ: Yeah. Great. We used to do, well fifteen hour trips mainly. One a month fifteen hours which was pretty wearying and you worked all the time. You didn’t just fly around. You had a rendezvous out with a submarine somewhere in the Atlantic you know and probably a ship and you got sonar buoys tracking the submarine. You did exercises with them out, two or three hundred miles out or more in the Atlantic and you used to get the odd ship, trip to Gibraltar as a bonus occasionally. But it was all anti-submarine work all the time you know tracking Russian submarines. Very interesting work photographing them if there were warships out. Fly alongside and wave [laughs]
GT: So, your logbook reads that you were on 204 Squadron for most of that time.
JJ: That’s right. I was flight commander.
GT: And then your last entry in your logbook is from MOTU, St Mawgan.
JJ: That’s right. I was posted down at OC Ground Training at St Mawgan. Again the Shackleton.
GT: And your last flight —
JJ: Operational Conversion Unit. Yeah.
GT: And your last flight showing 29 June 1966.
JJ: What was that in?
GT: Shackletons.
JJ: Shackleton. Yeah.
GT: And your final hours total two thousand two hundred and fifty two hours fifty minutes by day, and night six hundred and ninety three twenty five minutes. That’s, that’s a huge sum of hours there Jack.
JJ: Quite a lot isn’t it. Yeah.
GT: Total.
JJ: Yeah. It was a lovely aeroplane to fly in, the Shackleton you know. It was reliable and and the crew we had five radio, five radio operators and two that rotated the jobs. One on radar, one on tracking the sonar buoys, another one looking out and observing. One probably in the galleys [laughs] And I forget what the other one did but it was enjoyable flying you know. Good crew flying.
GT: So when did you retire from the RAF?
JJ: I went out from St Mawgan to Cyprus as OC of the ops room there. Most of our aircraft we had to control the Vulcans at [pause] what’s the place?
GT: Akrotiri?
JJ: Akrotiri. That’s right. Actually, I had all the Vulcan. I had top secret. It was more than top secret. It was something else. I had the safe with all the plans for a war with Russia. Even the air commodore wasn’t allowed to look at it, believe it or not. The air commodore. And I used to give him, he wanted, he only lived across the road like that in a big thing, you know and he used to come across to the Ops Room every morning for briefing. And then he found out in the UK they had television so they sent me back to Bomber Command to do a quick course on television presenting and we got television in and so I briefed him just across the road. Pointed to the targets every morning on the television. I can’t believe it. Absolute waste of money and we used to like to see him as well because he’d have a chat. He sat in his office with his briefing on the screen. Oh dear.
GT: So the ultimate for you was —
JJ: And from there I was OC. I went out with short notice from St Mawgan. The previous squadron leader was someone I knew. He had been CO of ASWDU, Air Sea Warfare Development Unit at Londonderry. Yeah, where, I did a tour there as well. He was a very efficient chap and he fell out with the group captain and he packed him up one weekend and sent him home. Said he wanted another officer. So I was, went out because they wanted a maritime man out there. I went out at about a week’s notice to, to Headquarters and took over the ops room there. And then I was coming out. I was due out at forty nine. So I put in an application to stay in you know to normal retiring age sixty years and they came back and said they couldn’t give me a flying job, you know. You know, flying. But they offered me to transfer to the supply branch so I went as OC. I did the course, and it was funny there were two of us. Two. A pole and myself had been wartime and the other, I think eighteen students were all university. Fellas and girls and we came top of the course. We didn’t know a thing about it but you see they were out at dances every night and enjoying themselves in the pubs and we were sitting, we sat together and swatted. Anyway, we came top of the course which was very satisfying and I went to the Helicopter Conversion Unit which was good because I never put that in my logbook, you know. I had the odd flight there and worked with them and I found it was the easiest job I’d had in the Air Force. Being OC Supply for a big unit, you know. I thought my golly some people have had an easy time. And from there I was very keen to settle in Scotland and I applied for any chance of a job at Kinloss. About the only place and they said no. But they offered me a job at Carlisle. OC packaging. So I went on another course and learned about packaging and I packed everything from a split pin to an aircraft wing you know at Carlisle. And again it was good. They were all civilian. They just had one squadron leader and then they were all civilians. The rest were people in the hangars you know. But we got on well again and I found it a piece of cake you know from flying days with all the troubles and things that happened when you were flying. It was, it was easy going. Yeah. Quite fun. So that was my career.
GT: And this, you retired from Carlisle.
JJ: I retired from Carlisle.
GT: And what year was that, Jack?
JJ: I tried to get a job, fifty five and thirty two. Seventy seven. I tried to get a job and I thought I’m in packaging you know. Equipment. I went to a big furniture place in Carlisle and I told him what I’d been doing and I said, ‘You know, we’ve got the computer and we put in automatic supply when something is sold and whatever.’ Well, they hadn’t got any and he said, ‘I’m afraid you’re too experienced.’ He was afraid I was going to take over his job. I said, ‘I’m quite happy to do a menial job. I just want a job to do something.’ So he said, ‘I’m sorry. No.’ He thought I was after his. And then I decided well I’d met Joyce. My wife and I hadn’t been getting on for a long time. You’re not putting this on tape are you?
GT: No. So ok, you met Joyce and —
JJ: I met Joyce and we got married after about three years. But the reason I haven’t been, you’ve got nothing on there I would have loved to have gone to New Zealand, you know. All the New Zealand people I knew I loved them. I got on so well with them and I loved fishing and I would have loved to have gone to South Island with a caravan but because I married after I left the Air Force Joyce wouldn’t get any pension from the RAF. They changed it now but not retrospective. So if I passed out you know as I very well could have done at any time on I didn’t tell them why. I just said no. I don’t want to go. She would have got about a hundred and ten pounds a week to live on you know. No pension from the RAF and no pension from her husband who had died. He was a bank manager. So she would have had about a hundred pounds, you know. I threw away thoughts about going to New Zealand.
GT: Did you keep in contact with any, one of the people from earlier crews like 75 or 218?
JJ: No. I tried to but they said their wartime crews you see. I wrote to the New Zealand government to ask for flight, well he’d been a pilot officer then and gave his name and they said they were sorry they couldn’t disclose. Perhaps they thought there might have been something funny. I don’t know. Then I wrote to the MOD about my bomb aimer, Jock earlier than that and they said they couldn’t give me any information and I presumed he’d been killed because he went back. He went back to 75, Jock Somerville for his second tour and I never knew that until I met his son Simon all these years afterwards and he’d survived and we could have seen. We were such good pals you know flying together. So that put paid really to any keeping in touch with people.
GT: Any, any other stories you can think of from your wartime Bomber Command?
JJ: I don’t think so really. Nothing at the moment. No.
GT: So you joined up for Bomber Command —
JJ: There was plenty of, you know, excitement. We invariably I should think every three trips you were attacked by a fighter or you had searchlights on you or something like that you know and you were corkscrewing and pretty worried and short of fuel. Fuel troubles you know from flak in the tanks and whatnot. Losing fuel flying back short. Diverted. Bad weather when you got back. You were always a bit worried. Quite a lot of aircraft they put oil drums out on the, I forget the diversion airfield now. Flare path you know and you could get in there if you pushed the fog out a few yards. But, well, I would think you know one flight in three you were a bit worried when you got back you know getting down and getting short of fuel and that sort of thing. One thing I’ll never understand that our squadron, 75 we only had a tot of brandy on two occasions after a long trip to Berlin. I think both occasions I think it was and yet you hear people from other squadrons used to get it regularly you know. A nip of brandy when you finished debriefing, yeah and went off to bed. But you see we were in Nissen huts on 75. I think there were five either side officers. Well invariably you know you probably got back 3 o’clock in the morning or something like that. You’d just get to sleep and the lights would go on and the adj would come in with the station warrant officer collecting up somebody’s kit. You know. It happened almost every trip you know. You could guarantee it. It was terrible really. So many people. You see there weren’t a lot of, there weren’t many commissioned navigators. The pilots, a lot of them there were still a lot of sergeant pilots you see. I had a sergeant pilot as well. But so there weren’t many commissioned people in Nissen huts you know but most of the pilots, most of them were pilots and they’d come in and just collect. The only good thing was that the New Zealanders used to get food parcels. They used to get oysters and I was afraid I didn’t fancy oysters then. Joyce loves them. I still don’t really like them. I tried one. And fruit cake. And we used to have these lovely fruit cakes around the little fire in the middle of the room you know. Had a job to get the fuel for it in the cold weather but the lads used to dish out this fruit cake all around and, which was lovely. Always remember that fruit cake from New Zealand. But everybody got on so well you know. You were, they were great people. I just loved them all I would have loved to have emigrated to New Zealand. If I’d had, if I hadn’t got the, you know the job, the permanent commission I would have definitely gone I think.
GT: You’ll be pleased to know that Roy Max’s medals have been loaned to us in New Zealand by his wife.
JJ: Oh good.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Good. Marvellous. Wonderful. Now, Dickie Broadbent was my flight commander. Did you ever know him?
GT: I met Dickie Broadbent quite a bit.
JJ: I say I, I only spoke to him on the phone. I’d have loved to have gone down and met him somehow but the following year I think he died. I can’t remember the other flight commander’s name or, the bombing leader was a great fellow. We used to have long chats. He and another fellow before he joined the Air Force they used to go off into the mountains shooting deer. They’d go for about four months and they’d live on deer meat and porridge stuff that they made up for four months. And they said for the other month remaining they made enough money they kept some of the tails or something and others they took photos or what. Anyway, they were able to prove how many deer they’d shot and he said, ‘In that four months we both made enough money —' he wasn’t married, ‘To live it up in a good hotel for the other eight months of the year.’ Wonderful, wasn’t it?
GT: Yeah.
JJ: I saw a programme a couple of years ago. They don’t do that now. They go in helicopters and shoot them because there are far too many aren’t there?
GT: Yeah.
JJ: South Island. Yeah.
GT: Well, the farmer —
JJ: He was a great lad. I can’t remember his name now. He was the bombing leader and gunnery leader you know. I can’t think of his name. I used to have long chats with him about New Zealand you know. Particularly the island fishing. They’d take their fishing rod as well of course up there and they’d sleep on this for four months he said and then live it up in a hotel for the other eight months.
GT: So your aircraft preference? The Lancaster or the Stirling or the Shackleton?
JJ: Say again? The —
GT: Your preference.
JJ: Preference? I think the Lancaster you know. We had the utmost faith in it. I think it was mainly because the losses were so heavy on the Stirling. We still liked it, you know. We were, we were quite heavy on it and it got us back as I say a lot of times. Very often on three engines. More often than not on three engines all the way back. One would seize up or something or get shot up with a night fighter but we always got back alright. And we, we came back on two on one occasion whereas the Lanc would fly on two grand you know. You could almost fly on one once you got rid of the bombs. And of course, two years later or a year and a half later the equipment was more reliable. We had Air Position Indicators, and we had [pause] What did we have on the Shack? The API, the Air Position Indicator was a great help when they brought that out so you didn’t have to give a manual plot all the time you see what you were steering to get your winds. You wanted your manual plot and in a fix that would give you wind. But the API would give you an air position where you’d be if there was no wind you see. Work from the air pressure and whatnot of the pitot head. That was the great thing and we did and the last few trips on the Lancaster we had the oh, the radar. What did you call it?
GT: H2S?
JJ: H2S as well. And that was a great help navigation. You know you could pick up rivers and things like that. Made it so much easier at night. You’d see when you were crossing the river and it was wonderful check on ground speed and everything and small towns as well. You could work out where you were with that. So that was, that was that was the great thing about the Lanc. Having that. Once we got the H2S, we didn’t get it until about halfway through the tour I think but when we got it it was great. But the thing I remember the most was the good comradeship always, you know. No matter rank. NCOs didn’t mean any different you know when you were together. It didn’t matter if you were a sergeant or you were a squadron leader you were all doing your job and fine, you know. In the Shack we used first names for all the sergeant AO operator. You know, air signallers etcetera in the airplane. We used, we’d use the first names and then they brought in you must say, ‘Pilot to nav.’ You mustn’t use your name. That was getting on after the war you see on the Shackletons you’d got the people in Cranwell trained in MOD who said we’d got to get back to the old systems ,you know. Keep people apart.
GT: So Jack you’ve had a marvellous career in the RAF.
JJ: I enjoyed everything too. That’s the great thing you know. I was never unhappy. I wasn’t very happy on the flying you know. When you’re on ops you think God am I going to get back or not, you know. If I’m always thought if I’m lucky I’ll bale out. Try and get back or in a POW camp but I never expected. I wouldn’t have put any money on finishing a tour you know because chaps were disappearing every night really. First class chaps you know. Just couldn’t believe it. It was upward firing young guns cannon that the Jerries had were fatal you know. Particularly in the last year of the war. God. Remember was it Nuremberg we lost about ninety bombers I think, one night. Terrible. They got something wrong. Met winds or something and it was a clear night and they just shot them down. I went to Nuremberg and we did a, Joyce and I last year did a trip on the Rhine and we went to Nuremberg and I must say they showed all the pictures you know and I thought my God I can’t believe how they’d built it all up. Skyscrapers are going, you know. Wonderful.
GT: Did you think about the damage that was happening underneath you? Was it just a job or —
JJ: I didn’t think about the damage. I used to feel for the folks and families down there, you know. You’d think, God, what are we doing this to them for? You know. Because you know although you had, although you had an aiming point and hundreds of people were getting killed and injured as well and you used to think about that. I think night time when you’re in bed you thought oh poor blighters you know. What a crazy world this is. Sort of getting nowhere by pulverising the place to death and families you know getting blown apart. I used to think about that a lot actually. I think probably everybody did but you just had your job to do. Oh, I’ll show you those two pictures.
GT: Now, Jack, what, what did you have? Bomber Harris, he was your leader.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: What was thought of him?
JJ: We thought he was a good man. He was doing a good job.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: And and who did you have visit? Did you have anybody visit you on the squadron like the King or —
JJ: No. I always seem to be falling over nowadays. I lose my balance. No. We didn’t. We had, oh no that was after the war. I was on a fighter station and was it [ ] we got sort of five minutest notice. But annual inspections you know you get a fortnight to prepare and everything was on the top line but this fighter man you’d suddenly get a message to say he’s on his way down in a Spitfire. He just came down and he said, ‘I’d like to go and see the airmen’s mess.’ That was just after the war. He came down to Bentwaters I think. A very cheery nice fellow. But he, you know they couldn’t, you couldn’t fool him what was happening on the station. He did that all over the place apparently. They got the message on the VHF about a quarter of an hour before he arrived. He just walked down and invariably went along to the airmen’s mess and sergeant’s mess and wandered around for a bit and then cheerio and back again. It was good leadership wasn’t it?
GT: Yeah. Did they mention anything about Tiger Force to you?
JJ: No. This was for the Far East wasn’t it?
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Yeah. No. I finished my second tour you see so I, but the rest of the squadron thought they were probably going out. Yeah.
GT: Well, Jack I think we’ve covered a huge part of your —
JJ: I hope its been a help.
GT: Your career.
JJ: But a very good memory now you know for names etcetera but I enjoyed chatting to you anyway.
GT: Well, thank you Jack because this this will go into the archives at in Lincoln.
JJ: I think. And polish it up and —
GT: Yeah and it’s been it’s been an honour to sit and chat with you.
JJ: Yeah.
GT: For the time that you served.
JJ: Thank you.
GT: And it’s been marvellous so —
JJ: Thank you.
GT: I’m going to sign off now. This is Glen Turner who has been interviewing Mr Jack Jarmy and Jack whereabouts do you live?
JJ: Now?
GT: Gatehouse of Fleet.
JJ: Gatehouse of Fleet near Dumfries.
GT: Near Castle Douglas, Dumfriesshire.
JJ: In Scotland. So this is the 25th of July 2017 and my interview with Jack Jarmy is now concluded and this is Glen Turner saying thank you Jack very much for your service.
GT: Ok.
JJ: And your, your time tonight.
GT: Thank you. I hope it’s been useful.
JJ: Very much so.
GT: Ok. This is now the end of our interview.
JJ: Yeah. Yeah. Ok.
GT: Please show me your photographs, Jack.
JJ: My photographs as well.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: I’ve got no photographs of 75 but I’ve got two you weren’t supposed to pinch your bombing —
GT: Oh photographs.
JJ: The flash.
GT: The photoflash.
JJ: I’ve got one there.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: You can see where it is and that was the target. You can see it was.
GT: Obliterated. Yeah.
JJ: Just about.
GT: Flashed out.
JJ: Yeah. And I’ve got one picture of the old that I got somewhere or other. The Stirling. Only one. You know, you just couldn’t get photographs or anything. This is Canada. And there’s one more. That’s right. Is it Castel or something.
GT: Yes. It is. It’s got Castel there. Yeah.
JJ: Yeah. And this was Ely when I was doing afterwards on the Shackletons for the [pause] No. Sorry, 218 Squadron that must have been. Yeah. GH bombing. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. Well that’s March ’45 you’ve got.
JJ: That was the target. That’s right. Yeah. That was the target and we qualified on that. On that picture and I managed to get that. There was something about 75 I cut out. I can’t read it now. My eyes aren’t very good.
GT: Ok. I’ll take a photograph of that tomorrow because it’s quite, quite small. So where you see that’s wrong too because it’s got the wrong crown on it.
JJ: Yeah. I see.
GT: Yeah. So where was this one? In Belgium.
JJ: They must have given us that in Belgium. Yeah. Yeah.
GT: That’s a shame.
JJ: That’s the —
GT: That’s a window with —
JJ: Yes. That’s right. When we went to this Belgian sergeant had resurrected and dug a swamp with a crowd of people obviously and got the Stirling out and they invited us over then, you know. Civic function. And they gave us a lovely time for about four days or so.
GT: What year was that Jack?
JJ: Now, it was the first year we were here so it’s, or the second year. Thirty years ago. Thirty years ago. Yeah. And that was a Stirling but I don’t know from which squadron it was but it was Mepal that arranged the trip.
GT: Ah. Ok.
JJ: You see. We went with a bunch of people from Mepal. That was in the Canal Zone and a Daily Mail reporter. That was when I was OC admin.
GT: Wow. [pause] Great photos.
JJ: Don’t know what those cuttings are. Must be something from the paper. I don’t know what there was.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: Cuttings from the paper. [pause] I don’t know what that was.
GT: It’s great It’s great that you’ve got some photographs. That you ended up on a four engine jobby again. Very good, Jack. And let’s just confirm the time for us. It is quarter past eleven at night
JJ: Ten past yeah
GT: Oh gosh. Well obviously, you’ve got a day tomorrow so we’d better —
JJ: Well just, we’ve got to get this freezer you know.
GT: Yeah.
JJ: No rush. We never go to bed before about 11 o’clock. Joyce is a night bird. She’ll stay up longer that I do.
GT: Well, those are probably —
JJ: Oh, I think that bit fell out.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack Jarmy
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Glen Turner
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AJarmyJFD170726, PJarmyJFD1703
Format
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01:38:26 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Jarmey was born in Romford Essex. At the age of five. following the death of his father, Jack moved to live with his grandparents in Illfracolme. Despite excellent results in all his subjects at Grammar School Jack left school at 15 to work in the family business. On his eighteenth birthday Jack signed up to join the Royal Air Force as a pilot and commenced training at No 9 Initial Training Wing at Stratford-upon-Avon followed by elementary flying training school at Swindon. Flying training continued in Florida and Montgomery Alabama flying Stearmans. Following a bad landing Jack was cancelled from flying training and transferred to Trenton Ontario for navigator training. On completion of training he returned to the UK onboard the Queen Elizabeth with 14,000 other aircrew. Jack joined No 11 operational training unit at RAF Oakley in April 1943 flying Wellingtons and completed his training at No 1651 heavy conversion unit at RAF Waterbeach flying Stirlings. Posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal in July 1943, Jack completed 26 operations. He commented on the much-improved Gee Mk2 navigation system which he said was very accurate up to the Dutch coast. He also recalled being in the astrodome during the operation on Peenemünde and called on his pilot to corkscrew as he could see a Lancaster above them with their bomb doors open, the Stirling he explained had a much lower flying ceiling than the Lancaster. On completion of his first tour Jack trained crews at No 3 Lancaster finishing school at RAF Feltwell for ten months before joining 218 Squadron in early 1945 for a second tour of operations flying Lancasters. Jack commented on the increased accuracy of Gee-H navigation with multiple aircraft in formation with the Gee-H equipped aircraft during daylight operations. Jack had completed a total of 41 operations and remained in the RAF following a permanent commission. He served in a number of administrative and flying roles in the Far East and the UK including Shackeltons at RAF Ballykelly on anti-submarine maritime patrols, finally retiring in 1977.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
United States
Alabama
Alabama--Montgomery
Canada
Ontario
Ontario--Trenton
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Norfolk
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Germany
Germany--Peenemünde
Contributor
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Jim Sheach
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-04-25
1943-07-25
1944-01-08
1945-02
1945-04-24
1977
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
11 OTU
1651 HCU
218 Squadron
75 Squadron
aircrew
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
navigator
Operational Training Unit
RAF Feltwell
RAF Mepal
RAF Oakley
RAF Shallufa
RAF Waterbeach
Shackleton
Stearman
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/913/11155/AKnightD180117.2.mp3
a1c603db2ac36daa39476c25f6ee8d4f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Knight, Dave
David Knight
D Knight
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Warrant Officer David Knight (b. 1924, 433310 Royal New Zealand Air Force). He flew operations with 75 and 9 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Knight, D
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: It’s Wednesday the 17th of January 2018 and I’m at the home of David Knight born 15 November 1924 in Matamata, New Zealand. RNZAF navigator, NZ 433310, warrant officer, in Nelson, New Zealand. David joined the RNZAF in 1943, trained in Canada and joined 75 New Zealand Squadron in March 1945 at RAF Mepal. Completed two war ops and numerous Exodus trips before moving to 9 Squadron in June for Tiger Force training. David returned to New Zealand in December 1945. David, thanks for welcoming me into your home. Can you give me a little bit of your, where you were born and grew up and why you wanted to join the Royal New Zealand Air Force please?
DK: Yes. Well, I was born in Matamata and raised in my early years in Hamilton. I joined the ATC prior to my joining the Air Force and was there for eighteen months. And I was on an intake into the Air Force and streamed to be aircrew via basic training and selection in Rotorua in the final stages and travelled overseas as a prospective navigator. We — can we just stop it there? Can I just —
[recording paused]
DK: We travelled to San Diego in the US Mooltan which was a second [unclear] American ship. Landed at San Diego. Trained to Vancouver, across to Hamilton Ontario. And it was two weeks before our course was due to start, and we as a group went to New York and explored the place there. Our course was in Winnipeg. It was, we arrived there just on Christmas. We had Christmas in, a Canadian Christmas at the station. And our training took six months, and of course took us into the winter months and we were flying in temperatures of something like forty below which was pretty hazardous in terms of fingers sticking to implements and one had to be pretty careful with, about one’s ears and noses too in that sort of temperature. Can I get —
GT: Yeah.
[recording paused]
DK: The course was somewhat uneventful but we learned a lot of course and we graduated with our wings there. The only piece of excitement you might say was the fact that in the Anson we had to wind up the undercarriage which was a terrible job in the cold and on one particular occasion we lost a propeller. It appears that it had an oil failure. An engine seized and flicked off the propeller. We were not too far from an adjoining airstrip and landed quite safely so that was the only real aspect worth mentioning. After graduation we trained to Montreal, and after that to Halifax and then across the Atlantic in one of the Empress liners. I think then [pause] at the landing we were transferred to West Freugh up near the Scottish border and once more we trained in Ansons. And from there we went to OTU which is Operational Training Unit on, at Oakley on Wellingtons. We did a long time on Wellingtons preparing for our role as aircrew and from time to [pause] stop.
[recording paused]
DK: Yes. While at the OTU flying Wellingtons, and we’d crewed up to some extent at that stage and we settled down as a crew and we did a lot of the training, cross countries and all that that was required as well as trips over the North Sea as diversionary flights to fool the Germans in terms of bomber raids that were happening in the south. From OTU we went to Conversion Unit on to Lancasters, and one of our, something that sticks in my mind is the fact that the first flight in a Lancaster was under an instructor and we flew up to something like twenty thousand feet and the pilot feathered one engine, two engines, three engines and we maintained height at twenty thousand feet on one engine on a Lancaster which gave us a lot of [pause] you know. Stop it again.
[recording paused]
DK: So that was the introduction to the Lancaster which gave us a lot of confidence. We finally crewed up with our number of seven people in the crew and started some training and preparing to go over to be posted to a squadron which happened to be number 75 New Zealand Squadron. In the time that I was there and that was towards the end of the war we were probably the last replacement intake that happened prior to the finish of the war. Which meant that our crew flew actually three operations of which I went on two. The first one was to Kiel when our commanding officer Wing Commander Cyril Baigent skippered the plane. And that was quite shattering to think that a budding navigator was responsible to the [laughs] to the flight commander. Now, then, then there was another one. The next one was to Potsdam which was a long trip and that took something like eight hours and twenty minutes. So it was the first introduction to flak and real, you know flak and the prospect of night fighters. However that was a successful. The crew, I understand, I know did one more trip to bomb a railyard but at that time I was down with mumps and in isolation in Ely Hospital. So that’s why I missed out on that one. And of course the war ended at that time and they rescheduled everyone in terms of volunteers to make up the Tiger Force and we did a lot of training there in preparation to flying apparently to Okinawa to support the American invasion of Japan. But of course they had something up their sleeve and they didn’t.
GT: That part of the war. So, Dave, I’m just looking at your logbook now. So I’ll just briefly give some idea to your, your entries which gives you the history of your training. So when you first arrived in England it was the 6th of July ’44 and you went on to 4 AFU in West Freugh in Scotland and you were there for pretty much for the month of July. You moved to 11 OTU at Westcott on the August ’44 and a mixture between Westcott and Oakley and that was pretty much from October ’44 right through to the, well January ’45. And, and then you moved to number 1651 Conversion Unit at Woolfox Lodge and that was from the beginning of March and completed that pretty much by the 21st of March as your conversion from Wellingtons to Lancasters. And your arrival on 75 New Zealand Squadron was the 30th of March ’45. And your completion of flying on 75 New Zealand Squadron was on the 17th of May. So, from there, after your total flying hours with 75 Squadron was eleven hours. Your total flying hours at the time, day a hundred and sixty eight. Total night one hundred and fifty one. And then you moved to Bardney at Waddington for 9 Squadron. June 18th you spent flying until the 18th of September which was pretty much your last Lancaster flight. So on 9 Squadron then can you remember anything of the things that you did and your skipper particularly?
DK: Yes. Our skipper was a married gentleman called [unclear] A well-seasoned pilot and you know, a great chap. Apart from training for the Far East we went out to Pomigliano on two occasions to pick up POWs and brought them back. I think number twenty four. The number was twenty four that packed into, into the plane. Apart from that we, I was transferred to Brighton awaiting repatriation back home. Arriving right on Christmas of ’46.
GT: So what ship did they take you back from England? Bring you back.
DK: Yeah.
GT: The Andes?
DK: No [pause] [laughs] No.
[recording paused]
DK: Yes. The ship that brought us home was the SS Mooltan. The one that we caught out of New Zealand to go to San Diego was the US —
GT: The Uruguay, was it?
DK: Uruguay.
GT: Yeah.
DK: That’s the one. Yeah.
GT: So when, when you joined the RNZAF was navigator your aim or was that just the one that they slotted you in and you accepted? Did the [unclear] for you.
DK: I didn’t want to be a pilot. That’s number one. And I was an engineering prospective student so I thought navigation was the one to do. Yeah.
GT: And that, that was easy for you? The navigation. You found it good to work for.
DK: Yes. And I had, my life had been study really up to that point in time, so there was no real effort to knuckle down and do the work necessary to qualify as a navigator.
GT: What was your background before the war that made if good for you to do the navigation?
DK: Well, I was only out of school actually.
GT: Ok.
DK: But I was, joined the Post Office as an engineering cadet and I was, worked for just a year before I was in the, when I joined the Air Force.
GT: And that was a total volunteer thing right? You weren’t called up.
DK: No. Not at eighteen. No.
GT: No.
DK: No.
GT: So the navigation role then how did it work for the crew? They, they all relied on you totally to make sure they got there and back. Did they have — [unclear]
DK: Yes. Well, there’s a back-up in terms of the wireless operator. He could get fixes. He could ask for assistance. And I don’t recall having to use that and I think the bomb aimer was somewhat conversant with the art of navigation. So there were back-ups. The only thing I felt was there were no one to back up the skipper.
GT: Flight engineer.
DK: Yeah. No. Well, they came later.
GT: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
GT: True. So, so when you did the, your daylight trips the difference between night and day did you guys notice a succinct difference? Was it, did you have to change your tactics?
DK: You mean operations? I didn’t fly any daylight trips so I can’t answer that one.
GT: Ok. Now, the aircraft you were flying in. Lancaster. A beautiful aircraft, it was. Other crews liked them. What was it?
DK: Well, yeah. People had faith in the aircraft but, well in retrospect when you think about it there was damn all chance of getting out of the thing in trouble because of the big spar across the centre of the fuselage. Gives you the willies to think that perhaps a lot of people, you know met they’re doom by the fact that they were restrained so much by the structure of the aircraft.
GT: High G forces [unclear]
DK: Yeah.
GT: But were there was any aircraft lost when you were on the squadron? It was right at the end of the war.
DK: Yes. Well, there was evidence of something lost by the time that we arrived there and I just don't recall any particular one on the time that I was there.
GT: You weren’t there that long at Mepal. But in this case did you enjoy any of the pubs? Do you remember any of the —
DK: I think we went out as a crew. Yes. There’s one thing you really didn’t, didn’t make a lot of friends as aircrew on the Air Force because you were confined to your crew mainly and you went as a crew and your, you became friendly with them. But different from being in the Army where you were living with people all the time, and you make up, you settled down in hierarchy and you feel comfortable within your group. Whereas this, you just participated as a group of seven and you lived as a group of seven, slept as a group of seven and that was about it.
GT: You mentioned your first operation was with Cyril Baigent.
DK: Yeah.
GT: Who was the wing commander of 75 New Zealand Squadron. A very young wing commander at that time.
DK: Yes.
GT: Very well respected. And you had that feeling when you were flying with him. He was, he was, respected. He was deserving of that respect.
DK: Absolutely. More so by the fact that he’d achieved that at a very young age. So there must have been something that he had going for him.
GT: Of note that Wing Commander Cyril Baigent returned to New Zealand post war. Took a reduction in rank but he became the commanding officer of the new 75 RNZAF Squadron flying Mosquitoes but sadly died of cancer in 1949.
DK: Yes.
GT: And he’s buried in the cemetery not far from where we are now here in Nelson and several years ago I found his collective grave with his brother. And he, I think also was awarded the Military Cross. So a very prestigious military family is the Baigents here in Nelson, New Zealand. Very good. So then when you moved to 9 Squadron did, what was the kind of work you were doing to work up to go to, well in this case Okinawa? This was where you were heading.
DK: Yes.
GT: So what kind of work were you doing for that?
DK: I think we were concentrating on long range navigation over the Pacific which is different from Europe of course. Was it LORAN that they had there? I just don’t recall in detail but we were doing a lot of cross country and we were in a holding situation because we were a trained crew and we could have been uplifted at any time. And we had different aircraft too. I think we were painted white underneath and black on top. I don’t recall. But some quite different.
GT: What was your main navigation tool on these aircraft? Did they change between 75 and the ones you went to 9 Squadron with or the same?
DK: Pretty much the same. We had H2S and Gee. Well, that’s mainly for navigating around where we were training. They’d have to, they had a different system there covering the Pacific. Yeah.
GT: Now, 75 New Zealand Squadron were heading, went to Spilsby for Tiger Force training and eventually you started to crew up with Lincolns and, and by VJ Day they had received three. Had 9 Squadron been moving towards Lincolns as well or were they just going to go out with Lancasters?
DK: I think it was Lancasters. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. I’d also heard from another veteran some years ago that they were doing engine trials for, for flying in the heat which obviously was something that Lancaster hadn’t done much of in Europe.
DK: No. No.
GT: So, was there any thought of the aircraft overheating? And did they do any training towards that?
DK: No. It didn’t filter down through the ranks.
GT: They were just going to get them there.
DK: Yeah.
GT: And hope for the best.
DK: Yeah.
GT: Hopefully, the Merlins coped. Fascinating. So, so alright, you came back to New Zealand after the war and you settled into a new role. What did you, what did you end up doing then?
DK: Well, I went back to the Post Office and with the intention of carrying on my engineering career. I wasn’t accepted back because in [pause]
[recording paused]
DK: Yes. When I got back I applied to continue my engineering study with a bursary from the Post Office, but at the time there was a lot of prospective engineers halfway through their courses when they were either called up or volunteered and the quota was over, over full. So being the youngest virtually and the last one to, the last one to [pause] being the last one to go and join the Air Force I stayed as a technician and I was, included in the work was night shift. And I’d started a family at that stage and I’d built a house and settled down to civilian life and I wasn’t going to do any night shifts at all. So I either was going to quit the job or get my qualification via the Institute of Electrical Engineers extramurally which after four years of study without, without a lot of assistance I achieved that and became a registered engineer. And I graduated through the hierarchy of the Post Office engineering to be an engineer, a senior engineer, a supervising engineer and a district engineer of Nelson. And I retired at age fifty seven after forty years of service.
[recording paused]
DK: Yes. To qualify as an engineer the way I did you had to pass, and be accepted by the Institute of Electrical Engineers based in London. And people who had engineering degrees could not get a practicing certificate or become a chartered engineer unless they passed a section B of the Institute’s recommendation. And then at the time that I graduated the nuclear engineering business was starting to appear and requiring engineers and rather than be under the auspices of the Institute of Electrical Engineers they decided that they would start their own institution and they advertised to recent graduates to be foundation members of the Institute of Atomic Engineering. And so I accepted that because there could be a likelihood that I may end up in the UK and I’d be qualified to accept a responsibility in that particular field. Although New Zealand was nuclear free and all that sort of thing and there’s nothing here of a practical work in that calling I was abreast of the situation through technical papers that I had access to at all times and I became a fellow of the Institute of Nuclear Engineers as time went by.
GT: Ok, Dave. That’s fascinating stuff. Dave, what about family? Yourself and with your lovely wife Margaret, you had how many children and how many great grandchildren?
DK: Well, we had three children. Two boys and a girl. They were all, have been self-employed. Two of them are pensioners now. They’re over sixty five and they’re doing better than I ever did. Each one of them. So there’s no worries there. There’s seven grandchildren and there’s, I think there’s going to be any time, any minute there’s going to be number thirteen of great grandchildren. So, they’re spread all over the world. There’s some in England, some in Sydney, some in, in Brisbane and certainly in Auckland. So, but they seem to like Nelson as a place to come and they certainly come and we enjoy them while they’re here. Unfortunately, I lost my wife eighteen months ago after sixty eight years which was a blow certainly, but I live alone in a four bedroom house. I can manage it. I’m capable of doing that and I intend to stay here until the end rather than go into care if I can possibly arrange it. So, and I’m socially active in terms of belonging to a [unclear] Club which gives any amount of social connection and that’s the saviour of, you know the, of our later retirement years I would say. Certainly after the death of Margaret. Yeah.
GT: Dave, in Nelson here there’s now six, six of you left, and amazingly three of you are ex-75 New Zealand Squadron Lancaster crew. And that, that number has diminished now which means that your local Bomber Command Association of Nelson’s get togethers every so often you’ve now had to kind of curtail that and disband so to speak. So, so it is fabulous to be able to come and enjoy your company. You and I have known each other now for ten years and its fabulous that you’re also very welcoming of my visits to you. So I thank you very much for allowing me to interview you for the IBCC Archives here. And you are accepting of your details being added to a very rich museum and archive status that they’re doing at Lincolnshire. So David lets sign off now. Thank you very much for your story, your life and thank you for your sacrifice and your service, sir.
DK: Well, thank you for the interview.
GT: Thank you.
DK: Yes.
GT: Good night.
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Title
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Interview with Dave Knight
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Glen Turner
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2018-01-17
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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AKnightD180117
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Pending review
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00:26:45 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
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Canada
Great Britain
New Zealand
England--Cambridgeshire
New Zealand--Nelson
Description
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David Knight was a member of the ATC before volunteering for the Royal New Zealand Air Force and began training as a navigator. He travelled to Canada as part of his training before arriving in the UK and being posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. When they flew at twenty thousand feet in a Lancaster on one engine the crew gained a great confidence in the aircraft that would take them on operations. Dave was nervous when his first operational flight was with Wing Commander Cyril Baigent, the Commanding Officer of 75 Squadron. He was posted on to 9 Squadron for training in preparation for being engaged as Tiger Force. He returned to New Zealand after the war to continue his engineering training.
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
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1943
1945
11 OTU
1651 HCU
75 Squadron
9 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lincoln
navigator
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Mepal
Tiger force
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1039/11412/AMulhallJE180703.2.mp3
85d2a28ea5d8fdd9060e2bf78191b491
Dublin Core
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Title
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Mulhall, James
James Edward Mulhall
J E Mulhall
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with James Mulhall (b. 1924, 224223 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 75 Squadron before becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-08-23
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Mulhall, JE
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GT: This is Tuesday the 3rd of July 2018 and I am at the home of Mr James Edward Mulhall, known as Jim. Born 8th July 1924 in Gorton, Manchester, England. Jim joined the RAF at the age of eighteen as an ACHGD mechanic. Later qualifying as a flight engineer serving on 75 New Zealand Squadron Lancasters from Mepal, Cambridgeshire. Jim, thank you for letting me interview you for the IBCC archives. So, please tell me why you joined the RAF and where you did your training.
JM: Yeah. The reason I joined the RAF was I got fed up of being bombed by the Germans. Being blown out of bed on a regular basis. So I decided to get a little bit of my own back and I joined up at Dover Street in Manchester and did my initial training at Padgate.
GT: And you joined up to, to be a pilot or gunner or what was it?
JM: I originally intended to qualify as a pilot and I joined the PNB course. Pilot/navigator/bomb aimer. But my maths weren’t good enough to qualify as a pilot so I was offered the alternative as becoming a flight engineer. And this I accepted and trained at St Athans, in South Wales.
GT: How long was your training for, Jim?
JM: About three months.
GT: And what aircraft did you train on for that?
JM: I trained on Stirlings to begin with which I didn’t like. I thought it was underpowered and overweight. And then I got re-mustered because of the losses to Lancasters which I enjoyed very much. But as I’ve mentioned previously going from a four cylinder, fourteen cylinder radial air cooled engines to twelve cylinder liquid cooled engines, the Merlins, was a bit of a leap for me considering I only had a fortnight to qualify in this direction. And I was a bit peeved because I was genning up on night on the various different systems while my mates were out boozing. So, I didn’t take kindly to this. However we got along eventually.
GT: So, from, from your training at St Athan did you move to satellite airfields before you joined a crew?
JM: Yes. Satellite. Stradishall was one. And Feltwell was the other one. And we did the various training at these two stages on Lancasters.
GT: So, how long did that take? Months? A year?
JM: Oh no. As I said before it only took a fortnight to qualify as Lancaster crew. That’s the only time we had.
GT: No. But let’s, let’s go back to before you joined your crews though, Jim because you were still doing your training by yourself or with other flight engineers were you?
JM: Oh, they were trained, all flight engineers at St Athan.
GT: Yeah.
JM: And when it came to crewing up they pushed all the previous aircrew, who had been together on Wellingtons I might add. Five of them knew each other very well through training on Wellingtons and this, but they all sat down and they shoved, I don’t know, about eighty. Oh not quite that number. Let’s get this nearer to the fact. About twenty. Twenty or thirty flight engineers in to the big cinema with them and said quite briefly, ‘Go and find yourself a crew.’ And that was a bit disconcerting because we’d got all these pudding faces looking at us wondering whether, what kind of a bloke is this that’s going to hoist himself on to us?
GT: Yeah.
JM: So, I went up to one of them, Hugh Rees and I said, ‘Do you fancy an engineer?’ He said, ‘What’s your name?’ I said, ‘James.’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘What’s your name?’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘Jim. He said, ‘I’m Hugh. This is Westie. This is Ray. So that was it. We joined up as a crew. Yeah. Most haphazard in its way.
GT: Yeah.
JM: But none the less it worked. Yeah.
GT: So, so from the time you joined to that time you joined a crew how long was that? A couple of years? A year?
JM: About a year. Yeah. About a year. I did the Padgate training at Skegness. The square bashing as they called it and we did about a fortnight in Blackpool. In November would you believe. No place Blackpool in November believe me. Its, particularly doing PT at 6 o’clock in the morning in shorts and pumps. Not very kindly to the torso at all. So, that, that was briefly the square bashing bit.
GT: So, when you trained as a flight engineer on Stirlings did they have a flight engineer position initially?
JM: Yes. Halfway down the aircraft was the flight engineer’s position. But as I said that’s why I lost, when I lost an engine. For the first, for the first six circuits and bumps we had screens. A screened navigator, a screened pilot and a screened engineer. But they left us and the first flight we did circuits and bumps I lost an engine would you believe. I could see the cylinder head’s temperatures going down. And the oil pressure disappearing so I knew the engine was u/s. I called up the pilot. I said, ‘Feather number two,’ and he said, ‘Feathering two. Why?’ I said, ‘The CHT’s going down. I’ve no oil pressure. The engines u/s.’ So, he said, ‘Right. Nobby, call up base. We want an emergency landing on three.’ He greased it and he made a beautiful landing on three and said to me afterwards, ‘I always wanted to do that.’ [laughs]
GT: What station was that on?
JM: Stradishall.
GT: And that’s where you were doing your —
JM: Circuits and bumps.
GT: The whole crew converted there.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Into four engines.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Wow.
JM: That’s in Feltwell. We got a fortnight at Feltwell to convert to Merlins and different energy systems for the undercarriage and flaps. And so for flying controls. Aye.
GT: So, had you done any operations on Stirlings before that?
JM: No.
GT: No.
JM: No. I never did any.
GT: So, the Lancaster finishing school at Feltwell was your first touch of a, of a Lancaster.
JM: Yes. We then, we were sent to Mepal to start our operational debut as you might say.
GT: On 75 New Zealand Squadron. RAF.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So, what, when you got to Mepal was, was the squadron known by any nicknames or was there —
JM: No. We learned later that we got all the mucky jobs that’s for sure. We were known as a chop squadron. But I expect that identification was made among many other squadrons for the same reason.
GT: 75 New Zealand certainly had a reputation of, of being assigned a lot of tricky and dangerous targets.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And the chop squadron was certainly well known back in to 1943 with Stirlings. So, so for you to hear that nickname, carry on and you joined the squadron. Well, for that matter, yes — when did you join the squadron? What month? Date?
JM: May. May in 1944. But we didn’t start operating until August. Incidentally, it might be worthwhile recording that we did fly in different aircraft. And we had one aircraft, I think it was the captain’s aircraft of D flight and it had a caption on the front of a scantily clad young maiden astride a bomb. And underneath it said, “She drops them at night,” [laughs] Make your own conclusions.
GT: I’ve seen some fabulous nose art and that sounds like another one to add to that list.
JM: The ground crew did the nose arts of course.
GT: Fabulous. So, your crew. You’ve, you’ve mentioned to me that your mid-upper gunner Ray Alderson he was quite old and had quite an attribute. What —
JM: He, he was thirty err he was forty two years old when he should have been at the limit — thirty five. And once we were routed over Denmark at night and he said — ‘Will you bank,’ left, ‘Bank right,’ rather, ‘Right and left. I can see something moving down on the ground.’ And we were around about eight thousand feet.
[recording paused]
JM: The mid-upper asked the pilot to bank to the right because he’d seen something down below. And bear in mind we’re at about eight thousand feet now but he says he saw some lights travelling along a runway and he’s not sure what it was. But as it happened he followed this, managed to follow this aircraft because it had its nav lights on. It was rising up beside us and he said to the rear gunner, ‘Let me have the first squirt Charlie because it’s my, my thing to see here.’ He said, ‘I’ll open up first and you open up next.’ So, this was done and we imagine that the pilot was looking for our exhaust flames. He’d be looking upwards looking for the blue exhaust flames while he was being vectored on to us. So, he didn’t see us only a hundred yards or so at the side of him. Fifty, a hundred yards or so and so they both had a good squirt at him and he fell away but we don’t know what happened to him. We could only claim it as a probable. But that was how good the mid-upper’s eyesight was.
GT: And he was never contested as to being over forty years of age.
JM: No. He always said he was thirty five. The lying swine [laughs] he was the best spiv I ever saw as well. He’d start off with a pair of dirty socks on a Monday. He’d finish up with a bike on a Saturday that he sold to a farmer for four pound ten. That’s not bad spivving is it? He never, he never ate in the canteen. He always ate, ate in the guardhouse because he was always bringing in bacon and eggs from the farms around about that he knew so well. So, he always had a fry up in the guardhouse. He never ate with us in the cookhouse. Or I can’t remember it. Oh at breakfast. Yeah. After flight breakfast. Pre-flight breakfast he had with us because he was, he had to because we were silence from the aerodrome. All outward communication ceased.
GT: Right.
JM: Before an op.
GT: So, your, your skipper, Hubert Rees. He did a dicky trip for you.
JM: He did.
GT: As it were.
JM: To Havre. No. Nazaire. I got it wrong. I said Le Havre at first. The sub, U-boat pens at Nazaire. Yeah. That’s when the bomb aimer got a bit excited. Yeah.
GT: So, was he always one up for the whole crew. Doing a dicky trip? Did he have always —
JM: He must have been, yeah. Must have been one up on his log book. Yeah. But for some reason or other because he did that he was never entered in our logbooks. So, although we did — Mepal have us down as I’d done thirty four but there’s only thirty three logged. As you found out for yourself.
GT: That’s right. So, you, you completed thirty three.
JM: And a half.
GT: Yeah. We’ll get to that. Right. So, now one of the things you’re talking about was your bomb, nicknamed Westie. And on your first op something happened when you were coming in to the run that you’ve told me. Can you tell me what Westie didn’t see it?
JM: You want me to repeat that?
GT: I do.
JM: It’s a bit dodgy.
GT: I do. Go on [laughs]
JM: It’s as I say we were down under radar for flying close to the sea until we climbed for bombing height for penetration on the pens. And being the third wave in the sky was black with previous ack-ack puffs. Even the birds were flying. They were so close together they frightened the life out of us. And Westie was equally concerned. And when he climbed up to bombing height we had a burst fairly close to the nose but the fragments whip upwards so that’s not really dangerous to the aeroplane. But looking in to the bomb pit I could see Westie crouched over his bomb pit, bombsight and I saw him leap back and shout, ‘F’ing hell, we’ll get killed doing this.’ So [laughs] and we looked at each other over our oxygen masks. The pilot and I could see we were laughing. We had a bit of light relief over the run. So, that took place. That’s really true that is. Yeah.
GT: But you finished the op ok.
JM: Oh yeah. But we could see flames going down either side of us and oh, it was a tricky business really because they were well defended these U-boat pens as you can well imagine. The eighty eight millimetre guns could catch you up to forty thousand feet.
GT: What was your normal bombing height that you would —
JM: Around about twenty two thousand. Yeah. Because we carried and eighteen thousand pound bomb load and a four thousand pound Cookie needs six thousand clearance to get out of the blast. So, we were usually between eighteen and twenty two thousand we’d bomb. On normal targets.
GT: Was your four thousand pound HC Cookie, was that your largest bomb that the squadron used?
JM: Yes. Yeah. We used to use a four thousand pound Cookie, twelve thousand pounders and four cannisters of incendiaries. That was a normal bomb load for a short trip. If we went to Stettin or somewhere like that we’d have to carry more fuel because that was a nine and a half hour trip. So we’d have to reduce the bomb load, the stores as they called it to allow for more fuel.
GT: So, as a crew did you go and check the bomb load before you flew? Or you —
JM: I did. I checked it to make sure all the pins were in the right position for fusing when we crossed the enemy coast.
GT: So, that was the flight engineer’s role. Not the bomb aimers.
JM: Well, he did it as well but it was one of my checks as well. He did it to make sure the Mickey Mouse was clean. Clued up.
GT: So, who —
JM: That was the selector box. The Mickey Mouse.
GT: Ah. So, the selector box was on your panel.
JM: No. It was on his panel in the bomb pit. I had a jettison button on my combing and the pilots. In case he didn’t make it for any reason. I could open the bomb doors and jettison the bomb.
GT: Could you see your bomb load?
JM: No.
GT: From the cockpit.
JM: He could. He had a peep hole in the bulk head because we had a hang up once and I had to get rid of the hang up. Get rid of the carrier as well as the bomb. So that was a bit of a job trying to chisel that out of the way but we got rid of it eventually.
GT: So, you moved down through the fuselage and could —
JM: Yeah. To get rid of the carrier. Yeah. It was in the forward edge of the bomb bay. I didn’t have far to go and I was on an oxygen bottle.
GT: Now, for those that are listening that don’t understand what a carrier is it is the British call them carriers the Americans call them racks.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And they are what is bolted to the air frame that the bomb is then latched to and in this case most World War One err World War Two bombs had a single lug.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Lugged. And they were single hooked.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And they were electro, electro-magnetic or electro magnetically —
JM: Fused.
GT: Armed or fused.
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. So —
JM: A fusing pin came forward and it was selected in the Mickey Mouse.
GT: So, can you describe then the way the bombs were fused?
JM: There’s a little wire ring piece in the front of the bomb and a needle when it’s selected on the Mickey Mouse in the bomb bay a needle comes forward and fits inside that loop on the wire on the bomb. So that when the bomb falls away that wire is pulled out by that pin. So then the bomb is fused.
GT: And the bomb is only fused once it falls from the aircraft and that wire’s pulled out.
JM: Correct.
GT: So, can the bomb be dropped without the wire being pulled through? In other words can it be dropped safe? Can the, the flight engineer or the bomb aimer drop his load?
JM: The bomb aimer can pre, can re-select to pull the needle back but there would be no guarantee that it didn’t get tangled up in the loop. So you wouldn’t know really whether they were fused or not. Sometimes we had to, if we had an abortive trip we’d have to drop the stores as they called them, the bombs, in the North Sea. And they tried to make sure they weren’t fused but there was no guarantee of this.
GT: So, the Lancaster could not land back at base with a full stores load.
JM: That’s right. We could take off at sixty eight thousand pound. That’s about thirty four tonne. But we had to get down to fifty six thousand pound to land. Otherwise we’d stress the undercarriage too greatly. It would bottom out and probably destroy the aircraft.
GT: Was there any cases where aircraft came back in with a heavy load at all?
JM: No. No. We never landed with a heavy load. No. The — when we were hit by the incendiaries I had to make a decision as to whether the undercarriage was locked down. And I came to the conclusion by listening to the reservoir tank that the same amount of fluid was going back in the reservoir tank just behind the pilot as was being taken out to lower the undercarriage. And after several occasions of this I came to the conclusion although I had no undercarriage lights, red or green and I decided that we could land at base with a reasonable chance of success. Which we did. And we did succeed.
GT: That’s without the undercarriage collapsing once you hit the ground.
JM: That’s right.
GT: That’s what you were trying to avoid.
JM: It didn’t collapse.
GT: Yeah.
JM: I made the right decision fortunately.
GT: Fabulous. Well, let’s go back to the reason why you made that decision. And you said incendiaries. So, you’re saying that the incendiaries were dropped from an aircraft above and went and hit your aircraft.
JM: It did.
GT: Can you tell me a bit about that please?
JM: The aircraft was shook about a bit and my instrument panel on the side of the aircraft, on the starboard side was knocked off its hinges and off its retainers. And the bottom plug down on the floor that carried all the communications that was hit and slid back. But fortunately I was able to get, to find the threads on that and screw it back in to complete the communication so we had intercom and instrument recordings as well. And the incendiaries were only, saved us because they were pinned in by being frozen at the height we were at. So, they didn’t trigger the incendiaries when they hit us. One, in fact hit us in the joint between the rudder and tail plane. Right in that joint there. Which was a bit dodgy really because any severe manoeuvres might have lost the tail, lost the rudder there.
GT: So, the incendiaries would have, would have exploded normally within the aircraft if it hit the aircraft or only if it had hit the ground?
JM: Yeah. They would have exploded in the aircraft if the pins hadn’t been frozen in. So, we were very lucky in that respect.
GT: And when you got back to Mepal did they come and take the flare, the incendiaries out of the aircraft gingerly or —
JM: Very very gingerly. We handed them through the door to the ground crew and told them that the pins were open, ‘Don’t drop them or they’ll go off. They’re magnesium flares.’ Yeah.
GT: Well, the armourers would have loaded them so the armourers would have taken them away I’m sure.
JM: Well, no. Only the ground crew. The armourers kept well away. They knew what might happen. They triggered off. No, no messing.
GT: I can’t believe, Jim the armourers would scarper [laughs]
JM: Well, you, [laughs] you were in charge of them weren’t you? But they stayed well away I can assure you. They knew it was far more dangerous than the ground crew did.
GT: Classic. Now, was there any time that your gunners, other that what you briefly mentioned did they have a chance to shoot at anything other than that one other time they claimed half each? Was there any other?
JM: No. The 109 we shot at was the only time the gunners opened up as I can remember. They did open up sometimes on the ground targets if we were going low over the, over France. And they could open, they could open up over convoys that they knew were enemy because of where they were located.
GT: Did they ever use the front guns?
JM: No.
GT: On the Lancaster.
JM: No. Westie never used the front guns.
GT: So the bomb aimer’s —
JM: Not to my knowledge.
GT: The bomb aimer’s role was also to mix in as an air gunner.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And he was trained as such.
JM: He was, well I assume he was anyway. He knew what he was doing. Yeah. My skipper wanted to play with them but the back ones. When I was playing with the aircraft he was playing with Ray’s gun err Alan’s guns. Enjoying himself I understand.
GT: Jim, did you ever do any flying of your own? On the squadron or in the aircraft?
JM: No. No. Never. The first flying I ever did was in a Stirling.
GT: But Hubert’s, did Hubert let you take the controls at all when you were in the crew?
JM: Oh yes. On several occasions. He would. Particularly if he’d had damage and was on an air test. We were supposed to do an air test two and a half hours and always climb to height to test the oxygen. But we never did climb to height. We could test it at low level just as well as at upper level. So he would then dump me in the seat. On his parachute I might add. I’m sat on his ‘chute and harness. If that isn’t confidence I don’t know what is. While he wandered around the aircraft trying other people’s jobs. Aye. And I’m stuck with it. Sat up front with thirty two ton of aeroplane to play with.
GT: Did you write up your hours?
JM: No [laughs] did I heck. No. I don’t. I don’t. I think it was frowned upon by CM. That was the publication that was issued to all aircrew as you’re well aware. So, no I did [pause] I must have totalled perhaps two or [pause] two or three hours at the controls I would say overall. Yeah. At half hour intervals or perhaps an hour at one time. But it got to the stage where the navigator used to say, ‘Whoever’s in the pilot’s seat will you turn on to,’ such and such a course. And I’d say, ‘Turning now,’ and watch the DR read off and say, ‘On course now. Thank you.’
GT: So, did you do any link trainer stuff?
JM: I did ninety hours link would you believe? The pilot had only done five hours. That’s when it came about. When the pilot said, ‘You’re going to earn your corn from here on in. You can fly the damned thing while I have a wander about.’ Which I did on several occasions amounting to perhaps two or three hours total in flight. Possibly about four altogether. So, I was in charge of the aircraft for that particular time on those particular days. Never on ops I might add. Only when we had an air test to do or testing new equipment. That was the only time I flew it. But I enjoyed it I must admit. It was a bit slow in input and recovery but very stable. A very stable aeroplane. Yeah.
GT: So, did you record your link hours in your logbook?
JM: No. No. I don’t know why but [pause] I’m not quite sure about that. I might have done. I might have done.
GT: So —
JM: I can’t remember now whether I did or I didn’t. I probably did.
GT: So, tell me about your logbook then.
JM: I probably did. Yeah.
GT: Tell me about your logbook then because that’s something of interest that I’ve heard from different stories that, from different folk that have said that they were destroyed. So how about your logbook?
JM: Well, as I said before that I was at Fenchurch. We landed at Cosford from Germany. Well, from Bristol actually. We flew from Leipzig to Brussels and Brussels to Cosford. To land at Cosford. And what was your original question? I’ve forgotten in my —
GT: Ok. So, let’s, let’s go back one because your, your flights. You managed to do how many ops?
JM: Thirty three and a half. We didn’t finish the thirty fourth.
GT: And what —
JM: We only got half way in.
GT: Please tell me about your thirty fourth op.
JM: That was George Howe work we were doing. We were supposed to pick up a yellow tailed, a Lancaster who had the Oboe equipment on to do this so called George Howe carpet bombing. But we didn’t manage to do this and we were told that we had to get in to the box at the back for fighter protection if we didn’t manage to pick up a yellow tailed aircraft. So we finished up in the box. And we were finally nailed by predicted flak on the run in for the bomb run. As I said before it’s fairly easy to dodge it. If the first burst doesn’t get you you’ve got between five and seven seconds according to your height to dodge it and be privileged to see where it would burst where you should have been but you’ve moved the aircraft so you’re not there any longer. And it’s quite a privilege to see it burst somewhere else. But unfortunately we didn’t outfly it and eventually it caught up with us and blew half the tail away.
GT: And the skipper couldn’t control it. You had to abandon ship.
JM: No. The navigator said, ‘Turn on to 270.’ But in turning he only had aileron control because he had no elevator or rudder control due to half the tail plane being shot away. But when you turn on ailerons the nose begins to drop off. You’re supposed to ease the stick back because one wing loses lift more than the other. And as it started to dive he said, ‘You’ll have,’ [laughs] We did a lot of parachute bailout, bailout business but Hugh just said, ‘You’ll have to get out lads.’ And so we did. I was the last out by the skipper. I had to watch the wireless op, Nesbitt, the hundredth operation man go past me and Ray. And the two gunners went out the back door. So I was the last out by the skipper. And I just reached for my, my parachute was in a rack behind his seat so I had to undo the bungees, put it on the clips, kneel on the hatch, take my helmet and oxygen mask and everything else off my head so that it didn’t strangle me when I went out. Get hold of the D ring and dive out. And that was goodbye. Cheers. Thirty four tons of junk swept away.
GT: And the aircraft was flat and level or was it sunk in a spin?
JM: No. It was in a shallow dive which made the skipper very difficult to get out because he went out the top hatch. And he told me later on at Dulag Luft all his fingernails were bloodied where he was trying to pull himself out against the slipstream which must have been about three hundred miles an hour by then because the aircraft is in a more or less vertical dive by that time. Yeah. So —
GT: And you all had good ‘chutes.
JM: Yes. Aye. All the ‘chutes opened, fortunately. I blacked out in fact. I’d been off oxygen so long that I was twisted and I got hold of the shrouds to untwist and blacked out through lack of oxygen. Anoxia. And I didn’t come to until I was a few feet above a pile of rubble in the centre of Hom with the Wehrmacht waiting for me to unzip all my clothing, pinch me watch and pinch me cigarettes. They didn’t pinch the cigarette case. They put that back in me battledress pocket but pinched my fags. And my watch. The swines. So, somebody got a good watch. My mother bought that as well for me when I started flying. Out of very meagre funds. Yeah.
GT: So when you were captured then did they, all your crew landed about the same area. Did you join up together?
JM: I understood later on at Dulag Luft we were all picked up within twenty four hours of each other. So, they knew where we were coming down. Don’t forget this is daylight and there would, there would be a Wehrmacht reception committee for everybody that came down. They’d have no chance at all of escaping. Or even do anything for themselves. They took these two. They were in a way they were they were a good thing to happen because civilians weren’t very pleased with us for obvious reasons. They used to call us terror flyers. Overlooking the fact that their flyers did the same thing to us years before. So, however that’s that was by the way. They took me to a police station and locked me in an underground cell. Took me boots off me and all. I were, I’m in bare feet. Well, just socks on. Took me boots off. They were flying boots that you could cut the top off you know and put it around you to keep warm. Yeah. They took those off me. I had to sleep in bare feet on bare boards in a prison cell in a place called Hom. So I understand. Yeah. The next morning the — I didn’t get, didn’t get anything to eat or drink either. I was pretty parched. The next morning they took me upstairs to be interviewed by the sergeant of police there. I forget what his title was but he started the proceedings by unholstering his luger, pointedly pushing the safety catch off — and I’ve fired a luger, I know what a hare trigger it is. And he placed the pistol down with the barrel pointing at me and then started to interrogate me. But between his German and my English we didn’t get very far so he gave it up as a bad job. Put the damned thing back where it belonged. But it was a bit unnerving for a lad of nineteen or so. Twenty. Yeah. To be faced with this. Yeah. I didn’t enjoy it I must admit.
GT: But he was Wehrmacht or SS?
JM: Oh, he was Wehrmacht. We only had one brief brush with the SS when they were fleeing from the — when we were on the march the Russians were only about five or six miles behind us all the way. And the SS were trying to escape them in ordinary saloon staff cars and one got stuck near us. And the two of them came out waving lugers, ‘Help get us out of the ditch.’ You know. We just walked past them. Bugger them. Let them get themselves out. They did eventually and drove on. But that’s the only brush — oh. They mounted a machine gun on one of the goon towers at Stalag, at Luckenwalde. And a Spandau machine gun on one of the goon towers and aimed it at the compound. But for some reason or other they didn’t open fire or else they’d have nailed a lot of us with that thing before we could get in to the huts or get behind anything. But they didn’t open fire. They packed up again and left. So that was a strange brush with the SS. But we saw them quite clearly. And the Spandau.
GT: So what prison camps were you taken to? Put in.
JM: The Stalag Luft 7B in Upper Silesia. Bankau, Poland. And then after the march we finished up at Luckenwalde. Thirty kilometres, kilometres south of Berlin. In fact at one stage the Russians and the Germans were swapping shells over the camp. Because we were only a couple of miles apart. One landed in the compound but it didn’t explode funnily enough. We had to roll it to the edge of [laughs] where the tripwire was. Up against the wire. We managed to get out of the, get it out of the gate.
GT: So how many of you —
JM: It was a five hundred pounder.
GT: How many of you were in the camp? How many were in the camp?
JM: Two thousand.
GT: And were you all RAF? USAF?
JM: Yes. I think there was a dotting of Americans and Naval personnel. But very few in number. Only perhaps fifty or so amongst our odd two thousand.
GT: So, most of you were RAF Bomber Command.
JM: Yes.
GT: Or Fighter Command.
JM: Or Fighter Command. Yeah. But aircrew anyway. The officers went to an Oflag so we didn’t see three of them after Dulag Luft. After interrogation camp at Dulag Luft. We didn’t see them anymore. They went to an Oflag. I don’t know where. Because they were commissioned officers.
GT: What was the conditions like?
JM: A bit rough. The food was the main topic of conversation. It’s usually sex or, sex or religion. But at prison camp it was food. All we thought about was food, food, food. We used to get something called sauerkraut which was some kind of cabbage in red vinegar. Disgusting stuff but it was edible. Just. And we had another thing called beetle soup which was supposed to be pea soup but inside every pea was a little beetle and we used to split open a pea and get the beetle out and put them down on the table. And we’d perhaps have a dozen or so little tiny beetles and then we’d eat the peas in the pea soup. Yeah. It’s true that. You couldn’t write that in fiction and get away with it but It’s true. Yeah. So, bread. We had to have a small like a Hovis loaf. Like a small Hovis and you had to divide it between eight men and you used to take turns at doing this in the hut between the eight of us because you got the last slice. And it would obviously be the smallest one so we had to take turns cutting the bread [laughs] How about that?
GT: No Red Cross parcels?
JM: Oh, we did get — what did we get? One. We got, in fact the SBO the Senior British Officer was in touch with one of the Red Cross officials. He had freedom to move about in Germany this fella. He had his own car. And he would advise the Senior British Officer, SBO that there was two wagons of Red Cross parcels in the sidings down outside the camp. But we only ever got one. The Germans used to pinch them and you couldn’t blame them. They were starving as much as were.
GT: Yeah.
JM: But we only got one Red Cross, Red Cross parcel between two of us. The only time I ever got a Red Cross parcel I must admit. It was very welcome. Klim milk and all sorts of things. Cigarettes. And dates would you believe. I got used to eating dates because they were very nutritious and they used to get the saliva going in your mouth. And I used to get used to eating dates. Ridiculous isn’t it? Yeah. I wouldn’t touch them in Civvy Street with a bargepole, with a sanitary inspector on the end.
GT: Was there any attempts at escaping from the Stalag that you were in?
JM: The [pause] we managed to get permission to have a sports field outside the camp. Down a little, on a little lower place so we could play football. We couldn’t do it inside the camp because of the trip wire near the goon boxes. You couldn’t get near that or else you’d get shot. That was about twenty yards inside the main wire. So we got this privilege. I think it was twice a week. And somebody managed to get a pole vault. Vault equipment in several different pieces and secreted it down on to this field. Unbeknown to the rest of us I might add. Only those in the know around about him that helped him to carry these different sections of the pole vault. And when he got down on the field the sentries patrolled outside the field to give us freedom to play football and so forth. And he put this thing together, took a run at the fence that surrounded the field, pole vaulted over the fence and I understand later on — to freedom. In to Switzerland. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction and get away with it, could you? But he pole vaulted over the wire. And I understand later on he got to Sweden. Yeah. Incredible isn’t it?
GT: Outstanding. So —
JM: I don’t even know what happened to the pole vault. Must have left it there.
GT: So, it was nothing like Hogan’s Heroes on television then. Yeah?
JM: Oh dear. He was, he was a real hero he was. Take my hat off to him. Yeah.
GT: Yes. Certainly.
JM: He made it.
GT: Now, one thing that before you were shot down on one of your ops you mentioned to me earlier that you might have had, you might have been shot at yourself. Your aircraft.
JM: Oh yes. We saw tracer one night. And we didn’t reply to it because we didn’t see anything to shoot at. Our gunners didn’t. We just saw the tracer coming towards us. But the following morning the ground crew showed us in the, the tail wheel has deeper slots on it on either side to stop it shimmying. And these slots were about three inches wide and about an inch deep and they showed us they’d dug out a 303 slug from this ridge. So, we were under friendly fire unbeknown to us because this was quite definitely a 303 slug out of a Browning machine gun.
GT: From above or below?
JM: Above.
GT: Better than the tail.
JM: It was firing down. Missed us completely. Must have been a rotten gunner.
GT: Day or night?
JM: Fortunately.
GT: Day or night?
JM: Oh, it was night time because we could see, saw the tracer. At night. Yeah. Very unfriendly fire. Yeah. It didn’t hit anything else fortunately. Or we didn’t see anything.
GT: So, prisoner of war and you knew that the allies were coming from one side and —
JM: And the Russians from another.
GT: So, what did the Germans —
JM: The borderline was the River Elbe.
GT: Ok. So what did the Germans do when they knew that their time was come and they — there’s much been talked of the forced march. Can you tell us a bit about that?
JM: They, well as I said before it was two hundred and ninety seven kilometres in twenty one days in the worst winter Poland had on record at that time. It really — you couldn’t see anything but snow. The only indication of the road were the telephone wires running alongside the wire. And that’s the only difference between the fields and the road. We were trudging along in snow all the time. We did the last fifty kilometres in a cattle truck. It was for six horses or forty men so you can imagine the crowding in that. The — we were bombed incidentally while in a siding. The Germans used to use a system of stacking. Wherever an engine was going if trucks were going the same they used to attach it to that engine and it would continue its journey with the various trucks it was supposed to take to different camps. And we were in a siding once when the Yanks bombed us. We knew it was the Yanks because of the size of the explosives. And it lifted our truck off the rails and we had to get [laughs] the Germans and all of us to hook it back on to the rails using a sleeper to get it back on to the rails so we could get attached to a train to pull us out of there later on. Imagine German guards and POW trying to get this cattle truck back on the rail. It was so crowded that we used to, half of us used to stand while the others stretched out a bit. You know. And take a twenty minute interval. They’d get up and we’d stretch out a bit because otherwise standing was a bit too much for us, you know on starvation diets. Yeah. They had one little trick. We had a can for urinating in. And there was a breather opening high up on the top side of the cattle truck and we used to fill this thing up between us and wait until we thought one of the guards was going past outside and hurtle this fluid out through the gap. We got one once. He started banging on the side with his butt of his rifle, you know. Cursing us. So we got one of them once. Yeah. You couldn’t write that in fiction could you and get away with it? But it’s true. Yeah.
GT: What, what was the reasoning for the Germans to do the forced march?
JM: The, Hitler was, we learned later that Hitler was going to use them as hostages to gather them around Berlin as far as he could to determine, to deter the allies from bombing close to Berlin. Because he’d be hitting his own POWs and particularly the tanks that were guarding the bunker itself in Berlin. So we learned that later. That we were going to be used as hostages. There was quite a number of us by then. We queued up with Lamsdorf on the march and there was two and a half thousand of those joined us on the march. So, when we got to Luckenwalde there we were joined by refugees would you believe. They, they were on the road for the same reason as us. They were fleeing in front of the Russians because the Russians never asked questions. If anything was moving in front they just mowed it down. In fact, when we were at Luckenwalde, this is another one you won’t believe but mothers were coming up with their daughters. We stayed in camp when the Germans left. They disappeared one night, overnight and there was no Germans guarding the camp anymore so, we took over guard ourselves. And there were women coming up to the wire with their daughters offering themselves and their daughters to live with them in their houses just to get a British uniform in the house because they knew the Russians had been told not to offend an allied uniform. So, it was their protection to get us to live with them. With an allied uniform in the house. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction could you? Some of the blokes did actually go but most of us didn’t. We, we were waiting to get out of the camp altogether in a way. In fact, there’s a, they had, the Yanks were allowing the Russians to cross the Elbe ad lib as they wanted to get back into their own country. But the Russians were stopping allied prisoners from crossing the Elbe in to the American territory until the Americans got wise to this and stopped the Russians. And then the Russians allowed the Americans to bring lorries up to the camp and ferry us by lorry back in to the American zone. Yeah. Leipzig they took us too. You see, it was a wireless school for the Germans. I was looking through the window one day in Leipzig and I saw a boot outside the window. I thought that’s an odd — there must be a one legged man walking about. A boot. Just one boot. And when I looked closely there’s a foot inside it. Would you believe that? I thought oh that’s enough for me. Do you know the Yanks had pineapple chunks and cream. Ordinary cream. On the tables at their camp. Right close to the front line. Pineapple chunks and cream on the tables in their mess. In their cook house. Aye. I couldn’t believe my eyes. We couldn’t touch it because our stomachs were so tender that we were told not to touch it otherwise we’d be violently sick. So it was very tempting but we had to leave it alone [laughs]
GT: So are you pretty positive that the Russians moving from one side and the Americans from the other pretty much prevented all you POWs ending up being —
JM: Yeah. Yeah.
GT: Yeah.
JM: In fact the Russians made a great show of mowing the wire down, the outside wire of the camp with a tank. And the following day they put it up again. Put the wire up. We were just pretty much prisoners of the Russians as we’d been of the Germans because they wouldn’t allow us out of the camp. They started, they said it was because there were a lot of Germans loose in amongst us and they wanted to ferret them out. And they started taking all our particulars you know. Writing them down like the Germans had done before at Dulag Luft. But we gave them all sorts of silly answers. I think some of us were circus performers. Somebody rode unicycles [laughs] Things like that. All daft things that they were writing down.
GT: So, how many of the RAF Bomber Command chaps would you think were dropped by the wayside and did not survive the forced march? And therefore, what happened to their bodies?
JM: I couldn’t even say. I couldn’t know that really. We did see several bodies by the side of the road but you couldn’t tell with the snow covering them who they were. We could see the spread-eagled shapes but, and the bunched-up shapes but we didn’t know who they were or what they were. So quite a lot of them didn’t survive.
GT: And the Germans were given orders to shoot?
JM: To shoot any prisoners that dropped by the wayside but we were to learn later on that they just fired in the air. As I said it’s an easy death. You just go to sleep with hypothermia.
GT: What kept you going, Jim?
JM: I really don’t know but I was young. I was only twenty and some of these prisoners had been since Dunkirk. They were very weak and on severe dietery all those years. They just couldn’t survive. You know. They just dropped out ad lib. In fact, some of the blokes that were fitter even than I was had a handcart and they were, they were picking up blokes that had fallen. And they had about six or seven in this handcart. And they knew that the sentries had only fired in the air because they saw them do it. And they were put in this handcart with survivors. How they did that I don’t know. It took me all my time to stay on my feet. Yeah. I had, I had my escape boots had a wrap around of nylon and you could, you had a little pen knife in a slot and you could cut this off leaving you just with the shoes. And I used to use this wrap on the front and the back of my battledress to try and keep me warm. I had a greatcoat on and all as well which the Red Cross issued me at Dulag Luft. In fact, there’s a photograph of me somewhere with my original documents with this greatcoat on. I think Pat’s got it now. I think she’s filched it I think [laughs] I haven’t seen it for years so she must have pinched it.
GT: So once you got to pretty much the end of that, of your march you were put into another POW camp and it was from there that the allies rescued you or took you back to what was it? Juvencourt?
JM: The lorries took us to a place called Leipzig. This wireless school as I’ve just mentioned. And from there they flew us in Dakotas to Brussels. And then from Brussels in Lancasters, eight at a time back to Cosford in England to be based at Fenchurch. That’s how we arrived back in England.
GT: So, was there much time between or was that pretty immediate?
JM: I think there was a couple of days. We spent a couple of days in Brussels. We got deloused by the Americans because we were in filthy uniforms and that you know. And they issued us with new uniforms at Brussels and we were able to go into Brussels. Gave us some money and have a haircut. They didn’t half rook us and all, the barbers. They knew we were coming and they knew we had money. Money you know. They rooked us. We had a ride on a tram while we were there for free. They didn’t, we had a ride around Brussels on trams. I think there was three of us. Three or four of us. So that was, that was a bit of an adventure in Brussels because everything was open. You know. Everything were pre-war as it were then.
GT: So what were they feeding you then? Because you’d pretty much been starved. So how were they feeding you? Gradually, with good food.
JM: Yeah. The —
GT: Was it up to you or did they supply it?
JM: We had what was known as a progressive diet. It came in a box. And it usually had a pork pie and some bread and butter. And a cake of some kind. As I vaguely remember. And we were allowed to eat this, I think twice a day until our stomachs got used to expanding enough to take better food. And then we got on to corned beef hash and things like that. You know. That our stomachs could manage. That’s why.
GT: So, was that sent over to Belgium from England?
JM: Yes. Yeah.
GT: Oh. I see.
JM: The, when we were on at Cosford just normal cookhouse food after that. Yeah. I remember sausages in mash. Oh, Shangri la [ laughs] I personally enjoyed. Yeah.
GT: When you left the camps and even after the march did many of your chaps have a chance to grab souvenirs like medals?
JM: Well, funnily enough we, I managed to bag a little small Beretta. The German officers used to wear them in a little leather pouch in their dress uniform. Quite a small Italian six shot Beretta. And I can’t remember where I got this from but I got it at Leipzig. From somewhere or other. I got one of the ober feldwebels caps at the same time which I brought home. And when we went to get deloused some swine pinched it. Funnily enough Jack Bagshaw at work, when I was at work at Avro’s he was a motor torpedo mechanic. He had six Packards between decks roaring away in his ear. He was deaf in one lughole. He used to get away with that. That’s another story. And he came, I was telling him this story and he came to work one day and handed me an oily rag and there was this little Beretta. Exactly the same model. He said, ‘You can keep it if you want.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘I’m not carrying a firearm in the house. You’re responsible. You get it back.’ You know. So I gave it back to Jack Bagshaw. Yeah. But it was exactly the same little six shot Beretta. Italian make. Yeah. It was a lovely little thing. Yeah.
GT: The reason I ask you that, Jim is because what one of the chaps on 75 Squadron, Randall Springer — he showed me several years ago a handful of medals that one of the prisoners of war had thrust into his hand as they pulled him on to the Lancasters. And one of them was an Iron Cross. So, that particular chap, POW managed to grab a bunch of medals from someone and they ended up in New Zealand. And I’ve heard of others talk of on the ship that arrived into Wellington or Auckland harbours taking all of the airmen back. A lot of them had firearms or daggers or bayonets and they, they got cold feet and threw them overboard before they, before they landed. So that’s the reason I asked you that question.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Brilliant. So, once you were back in England you arrived in Cosford you said?
JM: Yes.
GT: Yes. And they repatriated you pretty much so that —
JM: To Fenchurch. Fairly close by. In fact, I rang up directory. My Uncle Tom was a chief electrician of, was head of the Electricity Board in Leeds and I got directory to give me his phone number and I phoned him up. He said, ‘Where are you, Jim?’ I said, ‘I’m on Fenchurch station.’ He said, ‘Well, there’s a clock there. You stand under that clock until I come for you.’ And he took me back to his home and I slept there for, I had a sleeping out pass obviously carrying [unclear] and I slept there a couple of nights while we got acquainted. He took [laughs] he took me to his club that night among a few of his cronies. One of their private clubs, you know. In the city. And they plying me with ale and loosening my tongue you know and about halfway through this Tom said to me, ‘I want to speak to you Jim for a minute. I want to tell you a story. And it’s about a sparrow that got evacuated from London in to the countryside. And he was lost. He didn’t know where to eat or anything,’ he said, ‘And a bull came into the field and asked him what the problem was. So the sparrow told him his tale of woe and this bull said, ‘Oh, I’m fed on the best of stuff. I’ll drop you patch here. You get stuck in to that,’ he said, ‘I’m fed on the finest food there is.’ So, this was agreed. And day by day the sparrow used to climb up the tree singing his heart out ‘til he got right to the top. And he’s singing away his heart out on this rich diet. And a little boy with a new airgun came in and [pop noise] and down came the sparrow.’ He said, ‘There’s a moral to this story, Jim. When you get to the top on bullshit don’t make a song and dance about it.’ To my eternal grief and shame it was two days before I realised who the sparrow was. Me. [laughs] That was my uncle Tom. Yeah. He was, he was instrumental when I had the fire engine I told about. Seeing Walter. He, he, I pulled up one day outside his house in this fire engine and he said, ‘Good God. You can’t leave that.’ It was a [Banjo?] Avenue, you know. ‘You can’t leave that. Nobody can get past.’ ‘Hang on,’ he said, ‘I think I know where that’ll go.’ He came back about ten minutes later. ‘Follow me,’ he said, ‘But be prepared to back up when I tell you to.’ So I backed up. He stopped me about between the vicarage and the church. There was just room for this fire engine to get off the road you know and out of the way of other cars. That’s by the way that but that’s my Uncle Tom. He was instrumental in electrifying many of the Indian railways.
GT: Right. Well —
JM: Years before.
GT: So, from Cosford and the satellite that you were repatriated to did you end up back at Mepal?
JM: Only once. For the fire engine. That’s all. Well, funnily enough —
GT: No. But you were telling me about your logbooks. So, so what happened about your logbooks?
JM: Well, when I was at Fenchurch as I said a fifteen hundred weight opened the double doors at the back end of the cookhouse, backed in and tipped up. It must have been a thousand or more logbooks on to the floor and said, ‘Yours is in that lot. Try and find it.’
GT: So, were these just 75 Squadron logbooks or from all stations?
JM: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know that. I went to the number that must have been from a number of stations. There wouldn’t have been all from Mepal. No. I had attempted to look through and I thought oh well, I wasn’t interested in a logbook. I’d survived. That’s all I was interested in.
GT: And therefore you do not have your logbook today.
JM: No. I don’t know where it is or even if it exists.
GT: It’s a lot of history. A lot of history to go. Now, the Aircrew Europe Star. We know that the Aircrew Europe Star was stopped at D-Day.
JM: A point. Yeah.
GT: At a point. And from there on all of those that flew ops in Bomber Command were only eligible for the France Germany Star.
JM: Yeah.
GT: What’s your thoughts as a person who went on ops across that time?
JM: Well, I singled it out as if somebody did one op during the qualifying period they would get the Aircrew Star. I did thirty four. Or thirty three and a half. A fortnight outside the qualifying period and I didn’t get it. And I was a bit peeved about that I must admit. Yeah. But it didn’t come through so that was it. They wrote to me and said that I was a fortnight outside. I’ve got the letter somewhere. Outside the qualifying period so therefore I didn’t qualify for the Aircrew Star.
GT: And to continue on from that there was no actual Bomber Command campaign medal although the clasp was introduced as a, an add on.
JM: Yeah.
GT: An attempted fix.
JM: Yeah. I’ve got that. It’s shown up on that photograph there.
GT: Brilliant. But what’s your thoughts then on the fact — pretty much I’m guessing it’s the same as what the France Germany versus the Aircrew Europe isn’t it? Bomber Command chaps like yourself never was showing the grace and the sacrifice you guys made by having your own campaign medal. You’ve had a lot of time to think of this, Jim. What’s your thoughts on that?
JM: I just dismissed it as the way the cookie crumbles. I wasn’t there when they wanted me to be so that’s the end of it. As I say I was a bit peeved I must admit. For obvious reason.
GT: Well, the Bomber Command medal or campaign medal it was decided that there would not be one and that was decided some years after the war.
JM: Yeah.
GT: So the fact that you guys did not get a campaign medal is, was they made a decision then and we’re stuck with. And there are still some folk still trying to make sure that you do get more recognition than just a clasp.
JM: Nice to know.
GT: Yeah. And the last piece therefore of medals is that you are eligible for the Legion of Honour from the French.
JM: I didn’t know that.
GT: And therefore I’m going to make enquiries to ensure that the application is put forward of your, of your service to the French. I have done six gentlemen in New Zealand in the last three or four years. So therefore, noting that at least some of your operations were against Le Havre and other French targets you are eligible. So, we will do something about that, Jim. Now, Jim when you finished obviously with recuperating did you stay in the RAF or did you, or were you demobbed come VJ day?
JM: As I said before I went in to MT. Motor Transport. Because I didn’t want to fly a plate washing machine. So, carrying tapes and a crown made me eligible to drive the buses. The thirty two seater Fordsons. And the Thornycroft crane. That was nine and a half ton. I took my wife over to the island when I was in Jurby because we were only married in the July and this was in September. So she had a few months there before I was demobbed the following year in January. I came back to Liverpool to get demobbed and get issued my civvy togs you know. The, there was quite a few things happened there as well. What was the first one? I know I was, I was driving an arctic with furniture. Taking to — from Jurby to Athol, further up the road. And I thought, oh no the wife’s shopping in Ramsey today. I know she said she was going shopping. I’ll go and do a bit of showing off in Ramsey with this Arctic, you know. So I drove off my proper route and went into Ramsey and I got it jack-knifed on one of the corners. A policeman came over and said, ‘What are you trying to do, son?’ I said, ‘Well, I was only married in July and I know the wife’s shopping here. I came, I came down to do a bit of showing off actually and I’ve got jack-knifed here.’ So, he sat back on his heels laughing. He said, ‘In thirty odd years I’ve never heard an excuse like that.’ He said, ‘We’ll get you out of here. I know who these drivers are.’ So they came out and had a good laugh at my expense, shifted their cars and I got this un-jack-knifed and drove out of Ramsey. It wasn’t until about a month later my wife said she’d witnessed all this from one of the shop doorways and kept out of the way [laughs] How about that? Oh dear. I never lived that down.
GT: Well, tell me, Jim about your lovely wife then. Where did you meet? And you married in the July of 194 –
JM: ’45.
GT: ’45.
JM: ‘45
GT: Please tell me about your dear wife.
JM: We — I was a, I was, I did a lot of roller skating and I had one partner called Jean. She was, I was only, what was I? Thirteen. I think she was twelve. And her mother told me off once because we were, as a gang we were messing about in air raid shelters you know. Lads and girl. And her mother told me off one day. Singled me out and said, ‘You’ve been messing about with my daughter in an air raid shelter. Now, I’m telling you now you’ve got to stop it.’ I said, ‘Alright. Ok. Can I take her skating on Saturday night?’ She said, ‘You’ve got guts lad. I’ll tell you that.’ She said, ‘You’ll have to ask her dad when he comes home.’ So, I said, ‘When’ll he be home?’ She said, ‘About 5 o’clock.’ So, I went and asked him. Got on my bike. I rode back up to [unclear] Drive from Levenshulme and I said, ‘Can I take your daughter?’ He said, ‘Well, she’s got to be home for 10 o’clock at night.’ I said, well he’d got piles very badly, he couldn’t move. He was locked in an armchair. He said, ‘You’d better have her home by 10 o’clock.’ I said, ‘Well, skating doesn’t end, finish ‘til ten and it’ll take us about half an hour to walk home from there. Can we make it half past?’ ‘Not a second later,’ he said, ‘Not a second later.’ And by the skin of our teeth we made it, you know. But after that Mrs Mac used to send him to bed to give us a bit of leeway coming home. So he never knew what time we got home after that. They always gave me a cup of cocoa before I rode home on my bike. I used to take my bike to the rink and walk Jean home and then get on my bike and ride home from their house in Burnage back to Levenshulme. Yeah. She was a brilliant partner too. We had some fun. Len Lee and the, Jack Woodford used to run a skate room at Levenshulme Skating Rink. And they used to, they had two elderly people taught Jean and I how to dance on skates and we taught Len and Jack how to dance on skates. So they picked up partners and liked to copy me and Jean and they learned to dance on skates. And one time we were doing a tango. Well, the skate was rectangular. The rink. And we used to do a figure of eight so that we could have more room on the wood then we would normally just following the rectangle you see. And we used to time it so that we’d pass one another, Len Lee and me in the centre of this eight. And one, the girls used to thump us. We were getting close. We couldn’t see each other. We were going by the standards on the side of the rink. The bar rails, you know. Where we were for the centre of the rink. We couldn’t see each other. And the girls used to thump us. ‘You’re too close. You’re too — ’ We couldn’t see each other. And one night our shirts actually touched. They were billowing out with the speed you know, so the bodies didn’t touch but our shirts actually touched. And I can hear him now, Len Lee ‘Jesus Jim,’ right across the rink, ‘How close is that?’ You know. Because of a closing speed of about twenty miles an hour. Dear. Dear. How we got away with that I’ll never know but that’s by the way.
GT: And you had children.
JM: Oh yes. Lynn is actually shown with my wife in that small picture there. She was first born. She contracted cancer when she was thirty eight. They gave her six weeks to live and she lasted ‘til she was forty two and then she died. So that was it. But she, she said, ‘When I’m going dad I’m going kicking and screaming,’ [laughs] and I bet she did as well. She once went hiking around the world with her mate Brenda and she’s only five foot two. She was only tiny. And Brenda was only small. And they asked me to drop her outside Altrincham so they could pick up a wagon to get a boat to Holland. And when I looked in my mirror and saw these two tiny figures the kit bags were taller than they were. And the next we heard was five days later with a postcard and a cross on it outside the Blue Mosque. She said later on, ‘The first thing we saw when we got to Baghdad was a van going past — Manchester University Student’s Union.’ Going past them down the street. How about that? You couldn’t write that in fiction could you and get away with it? She got very poorly Brenda. Eating fruit that she hadn’t washed and she was, Lynn was trying to bring her around on the pavement propped against the wall. A bloke stopped and said, ‘What’s the matter?’ So she told him. He said, ‘I’m a medical student. I think I can get her out of this.’ And he did. He laid her down in the prone position and started massaging her and got her, made her sick and got her right. So she was able to stand up again and walk. How about that for coincidence? A medical student.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Coming across the pair of them in extremis like that. Yeah. That’s another thing you couldn’t write in fiction but it’s true.
GT: So when you were MT driving you were given some jobs and one of them was Witchford.
JM: Yeah. Oh with the fire engine. Oh, I’ve told you this one already. Yeah.
GT: But Witchford is 115 Squadron’s airfield. Right next to Mepal which was 75 Squadron’s airfield. So —
JM: Yeah. Their drem systems were five, our drem systems were five miles apart. Yeah. The — I had some food. I collected a fire engine. Then I went for some grub to the canteen and one of the women serving me started crying. One of the WAAFs serving on the other side of the cookhouse bar. And she started crying. She said, ‘I know you. You’re supposed to be dead.’ I said, ‘How do you —’ She said, ‘You were from, you were from Rees’s crew. We were told you were dead.’ I said, ‘Well, I can assure I’m very much alive and I’m hungry.’ But she, how about that? She had tears coming down her face and she’s serving me breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was a unique occasion. Yeah.
GT: So, why did they think you were dead?
JM: Say again.
GT: So, why did they think you were dead then?
JM: Well, because of this blown up business with the two aircraft that collided over the target. They thought our aircraft was one of them and that’s how the tale got back to squadron. Through the rear gunner surviving out of one of them. And that’s when I came with Walter and his ghost story.
GT: Oh, that was on an operation before you were shot down.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Ah. Now, what about —
JM: Oh no. It was on the same operation.
GT: That was that operation.
JM: Yeah. Three.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Three aircraft were lost that day.
GT: Oh right.
JM: From our squadron.
GT: So —
JM: Out of eighteen.
GT: So, now who —
JM: High attrition rate.
GT: Who was Walter?
JM: Walter was the father of the girl I was friendly with in the village.
GT: And what happened when you walked up to him?
JM: I’ll repeat this. I’ll repeat this for what it’s worth. There was some slightly rising ground on a hot summer afternoon when even the silence is noisy. You know what I mean. I parked this tender. The camouflaged tender in grey and green under the tree and walked up the slight rise towards Walter. And about twenty yards off I shouted, ‘Hi Walter,’ and Walter turned, looked at me, ‘No. No. No. Jim. No.’ And his son tugged at his leg, he said, It’s alright, dad. He’s real.’ ‘Jesus, don’t ever do that again,’ he said. He came feeling me to make sure I was real. You know. That was Walter. Aye. I was a ghost for three seconds. How about that? Yeah.
GT: He thought you were shot down as well.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And lost.
JM: As I say I wasn’t aware of this at the time but Walter was. He was aware of the tale and I wasn’t.
GT: And that, you walked up after you’d been repatriated.
JM: Yeah.
GT: From your POW time.
JM: Yeah.
GT: So, being taken POW were your family notified immediately or did it take some time?
JM: No. They gave us — that was a curious thing. They gave us a letter to write to be forwarded through the Red Cross to say that I was safe and well and a prisoner of war. And the Red Cross was supposed to deliver this to my mother. Which she didn’t get until six months later. But curiously enough a couple up in Scotland had a very powerful shortwave receiver and they used to listen to the Red Cross broadcast of prisoners of war and other items of interest to families. And they found out that I was a prisoner of war through this receiver and contacted the Air Ministry with this information. And the Air Ministry gave them my mother’s address. And six months after I’d been shot down this couple contacted her and told her that I was alive and well. How about that? Through the shortwave receiver they had in operation up in Scotland. In Lossiemouth in Scotland. Yeah. So my mother didn’t know whether I was alive or dead for over six months. That was a bit hard on her. Yeah.
GT: And how long were you a POW for?
JM: From November in ’44 ‘til April, ‘til May in ’45.
GT: Which was practically the whole six months. Yeah. The starvation thing that you endured did that have any lasting effect on you in later life?
JM: Only making my stomach small so that it was difficult to get back to eating solid food later on in Leipzig where the Yanks took us. They were aware. We weren’t the first prisoners of war obviously to stay there and they were aware of what was needed to get our stomachs to expand and gave us these feed boxes twice a day as I remember. That contained the necessary things that would make our stomachs bigger and bigger ‘til we could take solid food.
GT: So, after the disbanding from the RAF, the demobbing, what did you do as a career for the rest of your days? Your [unclear] days.
JM: Well, I was able to get what was called a green card from the AEU because of my service in the RAF. What I did then. And that allowed me to get an engineering job anywhere with the blessing of the AEU with this green card. And the first, first job I had was at Crossley’s in Crossley Road in Levenshulme building buses. I only stopped there for about a month and then I went up to Mirrlees where they made diesel engines and I got into their experimental department and worked there for about eleven years. And after that I was going by bicycle up from here in Ashford Road up to Mirrlees on a bike which wasn’t bad going but was pretty bad coming back up the hill when I was tired. So I got a job at Craven’s making machine tools and I became a machine tool fitter. I was eleven years at Craven’s. I were five years at Mirrlees and eleven years at Craven’s. So I became a machine tool fitter and began travelling up and down the country after a while putting machinery in for Craven’s. I put a fourteen foot borer once at Peter Brotherhood’s at Peterborough. That’s like a big turntable. It was in eight pieces that. Fourteen feet across. Two uprights and a cross slide. And I put that together myself and trimmed it off and that would probably last about a hundred and fifty, two hundred years that because of the way it was made. Yeah. Other things are [unclear] in, down in in Kent. Different places. And Falkirk. The funny thing happened in Falkirk. I was, I was putting a machine in there and I felt very uncomfortable and I thought, I went to the boss of where I was working, I said, ‘I’ve got to go home. I’m sorry. I feel very uncomfortable. There’s something happening at home and I don’t know what it is.’ And I got home later that day and my wife was teetering in the front room trying to hang a piece of wallpaper up and she was just about over balancing on the steps when I grabbed hold of her. I went in silently because I looked through the window first. Saw her as she was teetering and we both finished up on the side of the wall and in a heap on the floor. And she brought me home from Falkirk and I don’t know how or why. If that isn’t mental telepathy I don’t know what is. But she did that and I wasn’t aware of it. That’s true that is. Yeah. We all finished up on a heap on the floor and she had the two bits of wallpaper on the floor [laughs] ‘You made me jump,’ she said. I said, ‘You’d have jumped if you’d have fell over. You were overbalancing then.’ And she was as well. I cut the ropes on the ladder so that she wouldn’t use it again. Chucked it outside. So I went back up to Falkirk and finished my job.
GT: You had many lovely years with your wife.
JM: Sixty six years we were married. Yeah. As I said before I only, I only signed up for a fortnight. But anyway it was very enjoyable. She was a wonderful wife. She really was. I remember my mother saying, ‘She’s not the girl for you, Jim.’ But she was wrong. She was. She, I learned later I was in the rink, she first spotted me at Birchfield Skating Rink. And she said to a mutual friend of hers, she saw me come in the rink and she said to this friend, this friend told me years later as soon as she saw me walk in the rink she said, ‘I’m having him,’ [laughs] to this friend. And I didn’t even know the woman then, you know.
GT: How old was she?
JM: She’d be twenty. Twenty two. Yeah. Same age as me. Well, she’s the older one. She’s a month older than me. Her birthday’s in May and mine’s in July but she said to this mutual friend who told me years later, ‘I’m having him.’ And she did and all. I don’t know how but she did. Yeah. Yeah. She, as I say she was a wonderful wife. Wonderful mother. A wonderful person.
GT: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
GT: [unclear] Jim.
JM: I get a bit emotional.
GT: Well, it’s understandable and I’m very sad to hear of her loss from dementia. That’s understandable. Jim, the engineering stuff that you learned from the RAF. Did that help you once you’d become a civilian again?
JM: Oh yes. Yeah. What I learned engineering on aircraft before I volunteered that served me in very good stead indeed because they had a little training school there for mechanics and they taught you the rudiments of engineering. How to file things, you know. How to fettle things. How to scrape things using a scraper. And that, and that lasted, I think about a month and it stood me in good stead in Civvy Street. Particularly as, oh that was the thing we used, they used to send Hurricanes over from Canada that had been made in Canada and the fuselage was in a big long box with the wings lay alongside it and the tail unit already in place. And we used to get these out, assemble them together and fly them off. And we used to work dinner times because they used to get a lot of fluff in the radiator and that used to seize up and get the engines too warm. So one day we were, we used to work dinner times if we could because we could get a couple of hours off later on you know and eat what we liked. And one day we were changing a radiator on a Hurricane and an Oxford landed. And my mate who was senior to me, he said, ‘Go and wave that in.’ So I went over on to the field and waved this Oxford in and shut it down. And I walked back again and got underneath, got on with this thing, and then we saw three figures walking along in American uniform and the middle one was in civilian dark clothes. And the other American was in American uniform. And he said, ‘Who’s that?’ ‘It’s Bob Hope.’ We’d heard rumours about this. It was Bob Hope. And he came over to us and he bent down underneath and he said, ‘What are you doing, lads?’ So, we said, ‘Well, we’re changing this radiator.’ And he shook hands, I said, dirty hands. And he shook hands with us. Dirty oily hands you know. And he gave us chewing gum. They used to be in little squares in the packet. You didn’t have it in layers. It was in little peppermint coated squares you know. All these tiny squares and a big packet of these. I gave it to the WAAFs later on because I didn’t eat chewing gum. But he did a show I understand in the hangar. He came to bury his grandfather who lived in Hitchin because he, he was British born, Bob Hope. And his grandfather died and that’s why he was up here. He was over with Frances Langford and one or two other. Bing Crosby. Entertaining the troops. In the USO in London, you know. That’s why they were over here.
GT: What was that? 1943 or something?
JM: Yeah. It was forty — no. It would be ’45 wouldn’t it? Oh no. Forty. No. You’re right. ’43. Yeah. And he gave quite a show in the hangar to everybody and signed a lot of autographs you know. On toilet paper would you believe. And I got one of them. I brought it home. Yeah. Signing autographs on toilet paper. You had to double it over to make sure. He was, he was a great bloke. Yeah. He came to bury his grandfather who died in Hitchin. That was about five miles away from Henlow where we were at the time. It was a peacetime aerodrome. Brick buildings, barrack room jobs. You know. Not Nissen huts.
GT: So, when did you retire? What age were you when you retired? Or year I suppose.
JM: I retired from Avro’s. I went to work at AV Roe’s because Cincinnati started buying out machines tool people and closing them down so that they could take the orders. Cincinnati in America were closing, closed Richard’s down. And then we knew they were going to close Craven’s down so one of my mates went up to Woodford. And he phoned me about a week later, he said, ‘Get your arse up here a bit quick. It’s money for old rope.’ So, I went up and because of my earlier training in the RAF I got in to experimental at Woodford. So I got in amongst the flying aircraft there and that was quite an enjoyable time to stay there. And I retired from Woodford when I was sixty five. Yeah.
GT: So you saw the introduction of the Vulcan.
JM: Oh yes. Aye. I’ve worked on the Vulcan. Would you believe a Vulcan is held, the engines in a Vulcan are held by one bolt? It’s about three and a half inches thick and it’s about a foot long and you have to feed it through a, through the engine and through a hangar in the roof of the engine bay. And apart from tags at the front and back to stop it from swivelling that’s the only thing that holds the engine in a Vulcan. Would you believe? One great big bolt. And they’re thirty three thousand horsepower each those engines. Olympus engines. Thirty three thousand horsepower each.
GT: Same as the Concorde.
JM: And one bolt holds them in. That’s unbelievable isn’t it?
GT: So what makes the howl?
JM: What makes —?
GT: The Vulcan howl.
JM: Oh. The — we had diffusers on the drum and they started by air pressure. We have what’s known as a Palouste with a little rover engine at the back and it builds up air pressure. You put this into the aeroplane and it drives the turbines around until they’re fast enough for the fuel to be ignited and then they open up themselves so that they shut it down, did that one by one. AV Roe’s do that. They’d run the engines. Not us. The [pause] I’ve nothing to add to that I don’t think. But these diffusers made the howl go upwards. They were L shaped. Big metal things. And they put out. They could hear us in Bramhall but we couldn’t hear an awful lot here because the sound went up. But they could hear us in Bramhall you know. Yeah.
GT: That must have been exciting times with the V force bomber aircraft coming on line and all the experimental little small delta wing aircraft.
JM: Yeah. I did the right thing going to Woodford although I went for a few months until I could get back in to the machine tool industry but I was there thirty years in all. And I’ve got a watch to commemorate it. It’s upstairs.
GT: Yeah.
JM: What did I want to say?
GT: What about the Saunders Roe? Did you have anything to do with — which had one of the first ejection seats from Martin-Baker?
JM: No. No. I had nothing to do with that at all.
GT: That was a Navy one.
JM: No. Funnily enough, Poggy the engineer on the Vulcan, he, they had to — there was a quite a reoccurring fault with the buzz bars at the back of the Vulcan and sometimes they used to go off line which left them with an aircraft with no power. They had a RAT an air rotating power unit that they used to drop down out of the wing into the air flow to give them enough time to check instruments and so forth. But he had to bale out as well. Bob Pogson. Anyway, we were able to compare Caterpillars together, you know. We both had the same card.
GT: [unclear]
JM: Bob Pogson. He baled out of a Vulcan. There was one did and all. They lost another Vulcan with Edwards and he qualified for a Caterpillar. We had three of us in Vulcan qualifying. Showing cards to one another you know and everybody looking and wondering what the hell we were doing. Yeah. The — one of the blokes at that I worked with on the benches, he said, I showed him some photographs some time and he said, ‘You’re my hero.’ I said, ‘Don’t talk shit. Heroes didn’t come back.’ And apparently he showed them around. I got quite a reputation at Woodford because he told other people like the twins and so forth like that. And they did very well really. You must be running out of time on that.
GT: One thing that always interested me was the V force bombers always had four — well the pilot and co-pilot always had the ejection seats and the men in the back were facing rearwards without ejection seats.
JM: That’s right.
GT: And I believe it became an issue that even went to your parliament. Do you recall anything that along that was talked of at the time and they —
JM: Well, Poggy told me that they had to drop the aircrew entrance door. That the RAT enabled them to do that because that was the supplying a bit of power. Random Air Turbine. And they dropped that and they dropped the ladder and they climbed down a ladder, turned. Oh, they’d got to turn the seats around obviously to face the gap and they take it in turn, the middle one first and then the other two in progress. Climb down the ladder, turn and face the undercarriage which they dropped down, get a hold of the leg and slide down the leg and roll off the nose wheel and pull the D ring. That’s how they baled out of the Vulcan. The pilots ejected after they had gone. The pilots made sure that they, the three were out before they ejected. So I understand.
GT: As long as you had height.
JM: Yeah.
GT: And good weather. There were quite a few Vulcans that went in.
JM: Yeah.
GT: That took everyone.
JM: That’s the only insurance you’ve got with an aeroplane is height.
GT: Yeah.
JM: You’ve got time to do things with height. You don’t have any height — oh dear. No insurance. Oh dear.
GT: And at that time with still Bomber Command.
JM: Yeah. It was. Yeah.
GT: The irony of you being in Bomber Command for —
JM: Yeah. We were towing an aircraft, a Shackleton across the short runway when a Vulcan was taking off and we had to wait on the short runway and the long runway was going past us like that and we were towing this Shackleton on to the compass point to swing the compass on the other side the aerodrome. And the Vulcan took off and the shockwave with it bent us over. And it’s about fifty yards in front of us. The runway. And yet the shockwave that followed it bent us all over and we stood by the side of the tow truck. How about that. The enormous force that that aircraft generated when it took off. Unbelievable. You wouldn’t believe that but we didn’t grab hold of anything but we were bent over. It was enough to bend us over with the shockwave. Yeah.
GT: Did you have anything more to do with Lancasters then once you’d finished? I mean were they —
JM: The — when we were at Coningsby. Coningsby. The photograph up there shows us at Coningsby. They invited us up there for the seventy fifth. See there. And put us up at the Petwood Hotel where the Dambusters stayed. There’s all photographs of that as well. And while we were there the — there was a hundred and fifty veterans there with their families in the hangar and the hangar was open wide. And eleven of us were up for gongs and when they read the, quote the citation out they read a bit of your war record. And we went through all these motions and had the clasp that went with it and the gong. And a little while later I was walking underneath the Lancaster. Our Lancaster. The Canadian one was there as well. They flew seven and a half hours over water in a seventy two year old aeroplane. That’s guts for you isn’t it? And they did it on the way back as well. The Canadian crew. Anyway, I’m walking about underneath this Lanc and the crew chief must have been listening and he came to the edge and he said. ‘Do you want to come aboard?’ Do I want to come up? Seventy five years since I’d been aboard a Lanc. Pat has a story. My daughter. She said, ‘You’re creeping about with your walking stick and as soon as he said come aboard you’re like a rat up a drainpipe,’ she said, ‘You couldn’t get in quick enough,’ [laughs] Funnily enough I had a feeling of claustrophobia when I got in. I didn’t realise how close it was inside the Lanc. And I used to get in there in full gear with my bag of tools, my parachute, my clipboard. In full altitude gear, helmet, oxygen mask on and climb over the main spar. And there was only about two feet between the top of the main spar and I used to get over that like a monkey. And I’m holding on to things here trying to get over the fuselage. A one in three slope. I didn’t get over the main spar. I never got on. My son in law did. Later on at Coningsby. He got over the main spar and into the front. He took some photographs of it inside. But I never got over it. Yeah. Silly isn’t it? But Pat’ll tell you that story. Like a rat up a drainpipe. I couldn’t get in at first because there was a step there that carries a dinghy — not a dinghy. Oh, I forget what but you’ve got to reach over this step to get into the Lanc and you’ve got to hang on to the bullet rails, you know. Bullet carrier rails to get in over this step. And I got in. I got over that and I got half up and there’s two two of the crew there watching people don’t do anything you know while they’re in the aircraft. There was two of us in at the time. The other fellow was in the rear looking in the rear turret. He was a rear gunner. I said, ‘Do you show the girl’s the golden rivet?’ He said, ‘Oh aye.’ We used to sneak the girls in at our squadron. Different popsies. You know, girlfriends. With the torchlight. The rest bed is half way down. Just behind the main spar. And the golden rivet is supposed to be over the other end of the rest bed. You know. Down below, underneath. And you get the girls to bend over and you bend over them. It’s Shangri la. You know. Showing them [laughs] He said, ‘We didn’t know about that. We’d have used that.’ But you’d have got done for that and all. We’d have got court martialled if we’d been caught doing that. Getting the girls inside the aircraft. I got Jean in. Yeah. I think, I think Ray got his girl in as well. Yeah. He did. Yeah. ‘What are you doing?’ ‘I’ve got to get over the back of you to show you where the rivet is.’ [laughs] Shangri la. Oh dear.
GT: Jim, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you. And your birthday’s coming up soon. Coming up Saturday.
JM: Sunday it is.
GT: Sunday. And you will be?
JM: Ninety four.
GT: Fabulous. And I know that.
JM: If I get there.
GT: It’s only a few days away.
JM: Oh, don’t you start. Pat’s like that.
GT: It’s only a few days away. You’ll make it.
JM: Many a slip between cup and lip.
GT: You’ll make it. Thank you very much for, for telling me some amazing information about your time with Bomber Command. Your time with Bomber Command number two afterwards. And I know the International Bomber Command Centre would be, will be very very pleased to receive your recording here.
JM: My pleasure.
GT: And its and you know we’ve, we’ve been chatting for one and three quarter hours so it’s a fabulous piece of history that you have, you have displayed with me.
JM: I must have happened to thousands of other Bomber Command people. There’s nothing unique about me. Thousands of others have been through the same experiences I’m sure. Or some closely near to it. Yeah.
GT: I I would suggest that many haven’t had the opportunity to tell their story. There’s many that do not want to tell their story. You are a gentleman that has been very easy with your story and been very willing to tell it and it’s fabulous. It’s a fabulous piece of history.
JM: I suppose its, it’s a matter of boasting I suppose. I survived.
GT: No. You —
JM: I didn’t intend to boast in any way. It’s all true.
GT: You survived by the four letter word that you all taught.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Luck.
JM: That’s it. I was once told that flying was ninety percent boredom and ten percent luck. And that’s how you survive. Not far from the truth in some degree.
GT: Yes. It is. It is indeed, Jim. Well, happy birthday for Sunday.
JM: Thank you. But the, the youngsters Pat and David are organising a do on Saturday at our local steakhouse and there’s quite a few of us going to be there. The granddaughter, my great granddaughter Alia she’s going to Belgium on the same day, Sunday that my birthday is so to celebrate it we’re having the do on Saturday. We’re doing it then. There’s going to be his mother, Alia’s mother, Alia, David, Pat and myself and Pat’s mother, Mary. Which is quite a few of us.
GT: Well, I know your family very much love you and obviously are looking out for you. Caring for you. And you’re a very valuable person to us and the 75 Squadron Associations of New Zealand and UK and I very much have been impressed and thankful for your discussion with me today.
JM: I’ve enjoyed your company, Glen. Very much so. You’re a very understanding person and you’ve put me dry dead easy. You must have had some experience of this. One of the interviews I did for the Command people, Pat was listening outside and she came in. She said, ‘I haven’t heard half of this that your telling this fellow. Why don’t you tell me?’ I said, ‘You don’t want to know.’ She said, ‘I do want to know. Alia wants to know. Amy wants to know. Katy wants to know.’ Yeah.
GT: Excellent. Yeah. Well, see even your family can give you a right bollocking. Now, one last thing. Could you drive a car when you —
JM: I could do. Yes.
GT: During, during the time that you were serving on Bomber Command during World War Two.
JM: No. I didn’t drive a car then although I had a licence to drive because you were issued with a licence during the wartime years to drive any vehicle without, a provisional licence but without supervision. You could drive. So I did drive a car on several occasions then. Before I entered the RAF.
GT: The reason I asked you is because I interviewed a gentleman in New Zealand. A English man who was shot down on his third operation. Not on 75. Another squadron. And survived the POW time, and when the gates were thrown open five of his fellow POWs raced into the local town heading towards the Americans as opposed to away from the Russians and they came across a German driving a Mercedes car. And they hooked him out and he ran away. And then they looked at each other and said, ‘Right who’s going to drive us?’ And there was two pilots of Lancasters, there was a rear gunner, a bomb aimer and a flight engineer. None of those five or six chaps had ever driven a car before and they, they just all had to laugh at each other thinking gosh we’ve just survived all this and now we can’t even drive a car.
JM: It’s funny. You’ve triggered one there because I had a, as I say I pinched an ober feldwebels hat and I used to have this on at Leipzig. When we were at Leipzig. I used to carry this on. And I saw four people get out of a pre-war Ford. What the small Ford they had with the pointed nose and I said, ‘Whose is that?’ They said, ‘We’ve had it for a bit but you can have it if you want it. But,’ he said, ‘You’ll have to join up the clips at the back. They’d taken a battery out of a Focke Wulf 190 and put it on the back seat and hot-wired the ignition so as they could use this Ford. So he could start it and stop it. You stopped it by putting it in gear you know and holding the brake on and start it with a starter. So I drove this about for a bit. I quite enjoyed this with this f’ing great, it was about that long on the back seat out of a Focke Wulf 190. So I coupled it up. Got it driving and the Yanks were still bringing prisoners of war off the road on to the camp. And one of them saw me driving up the outside of this column that was going down and I was driving up the outside and he looked up and he saluted. He saw this car. Thought it was an RAF car. I got a Yankee soldier — a salute of a Yankee soldier would you believe. Aye. Yeah. It did happen that. Yeah. Surprising. And I handed it over to another group as I signalled some people out of a back column. Said, ‘Come over here a bit.’ I said, ‘This is what you do.’ ‘Right,’ they said. ‘Leave them off. We’ll do it.’ So, they took it over from me. To fill it up with petrol we just drove up to the Yankee filling station. ‘How much do you want?’ ‘Fill it up.’ He filled it up till it dripped out the side. Put the cap back on. Yeah.
GT: Recently I’ve interviewed two chaps. One — both in New Zealand Arthur Askew and Bruce Cunningham and both were POWs. Both with extensive stories to tell as obviously you have too. Recently you also flew with Project Propeller.
JM: Yes.
GT: By Graham Cowie. A very very worthwhile —
JM: That’s where I met Dee. Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And in this case, this last Project Propeller you were on two weeks ago.
JM: Yeah.
GT: You met up with some other fellow POWs I understand.
JM: Yeah. I showed you the picture there. They were at Bankau in Upper Silesia in Poland at the same time I was. There was another Caterpillar wearer there. There’s only two of us. And apart from, as far as we know we’re the only survivors that are available at this time of the year. If the others had survived then they can’t make the journey. But the Propeller Club are very good. Mind you we picked the worst day of the whole fortnight. The weather was terrible. Both going and coming back.
GT: Yeah.
JM: The pilot offered it to me. I said, ‘Not bloody likely. It’s too lively for me that is.’ He’s working hard at it all the time, you know. Shuddering and bumping. And it was the same coming up. We only just made it with the visibility coming back. Somebody going up north said, ‘You’d better get going pretty soon,’ from Halfpenny Green at Wolverhampton, ‘Because it’s closing in up there,’ and it did. I could see the rain streaming back off and you couldn’t see more than about a mile ahead it was so closed in. The weather. But it did begin to get a little bit clearer as we got to Barton and it was clear enough to land there.
GT: This was not your first project propeller though. Right?
JM: No. We went. We were — we’d gone three years before with a bloke called Duncan Edwards who lives in Bramhall and actually knows David and he had a share in a 72.
GT: And David’s your son in law.
JM: Yeah. David. And he knew him and but for two years we were stopped by bad weather from flying into the reunion.
GT: Yeah.
JM: So, it was the third year running.
GT: [unclear]
JM: That we’d try to get into this reunion. And we got this horrible bad weather to go with it. Bad weather. Aye. It was.
GT: So have you been to the International Bomber Command Centre yet?
JM: Oh yes. We went there when it first opened. We were invited there. Dee came as well. She gave me a wreath to put on the 75 Squadron gravestone.
GT: Brilliant. Dee Boneham’s the treasurer of the 75 Squadron Association in the UK.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Brilliant.
JM: Yeah. She’s a nice person, Dee.
GT: So, what’s your impressions of the IBCC Memorial?
JM: It’s very impressive isn’t it? Particularly the ring of stones around it. And it’s as high as the Lancaster wing is broad isn’t it? So they say. Yeah. It’s the same height as the width of a Lancaster wing.
GT: Did you see the displays inside?
JM: Yes I did. Yes. I did. They had a Blenheim come over and what was the other aircraft? Another. Oh, a Vulcan came over. And a Blenheim, whilst we were there. The Vulcan went over to Lincoln and flew over there, I think the Blenheim did as well. So they came and paid their respects as it were. When it was first opened. Yeah. It was very impressive. Particularly inside. Yeah. I can’t remember half the things I saw but it was very impressive I must admit. They’ve done a wonderful job. All volunteers as well isn’t it? Yeah. Not a paid hand amongst them. Incredible.
GT: They wish to keep your stories and your experiences alive for those of us in the future and it’s —
JM: The kids now don’t want to know do they? They don’t want to know. It’s outside their, it’s on another planet as far as they’re concerned. I think so anyway. Except for Pat and the local family of course. They’re interested. Yeah. Alia brought me back that stick in the hall from Poland. She smuggled it through the guards by putting it up inside her coat. I’ll show you when you go out. It’s all the way from Poland that walking stick. Yeah.
GT: Jim, I’ve often asked veterans that — what Bomber Command did and what Churchill and Bomber Harris achieved. Could they have done it any other way?
JM: I don’t think so. No. I think Butch Harris was right in as much as he said and I quote, ‘They sowed the wind. They’ll reap the whirlwind,’ unquote. And I think that’s what happened. Yeah. A lot of civilians obviously died. That was unavoidable. A lot of our civilians died. I got blown out of bed a couple of times ‘til I got fed up with it and joined up. A bloke in the next street got decapitated because he stayed. He stayed in bed instead of going down in his shelter. His mother and he used to go down in his shelter, ‘Come on.’ ‘Not I. I’m not going.’ but finished up underneath the bed. He didn’t half get, phew. When the Yanks bombed us in that siding it was terrifying. They were 500s. We were dropping four thousand pound blasters and thousand pounders. Dear oh dear.
GT: And your losses.
JM: Yeah. Sixty eight thousand operational aircrew. Fifty six thousand died. The highest attrition rate, attrition rate of any force in the world and no record of those who were wounded. Lost arms, or legs or eyes. No record of that. Must be many thousands more. Fifty six thousand. It’s incredible isn’t it? It works out into one in three isn’t it? Oh. No. One in two. One in two. Yeah. Rather less than one in two. We’d had, we’d have a crew move in to our Nissen hut and share handshakes all around. Show them how to operate the lock and particularly how to operate the stove to get the best heat out of it and the next day they’d gone. We’ve got the SPs coming to collect their kit and remove any offensive material, you know that might be in the lockers. Yeah. Gone. And we only had a handshake and they’d gone. That was a bit sobering at times. Yeah. The average life of a crew on squadron was five weeks. Not a lot is it out of a young man’s life? How the hell I survived I’ll never know. Somebody up there wanted me to carry on. I don’t know who but thank you very much. I’ve had a family since then and that’s been a bit of a bonus. Yeah.
GT: A great survivor. Thanks Jim.
JM: Dee said that once to me. She said, ‘You’re a survivor aren’t you, Jim?’ I said, ‘I hope you’re right.’ She’s a wonderful woman, isn’t she? Dee.
GT: Ninety plus, Jim.
JM: Aye.
GT: That’s awesome.
JM: She’s wonderful.
GT: Well, there are a bunch of us that are wanting to ensure that you realise and know and feel that we both love you and we also appreciate the service you did for both the king, the country and us.
JM: With the many thousands of others don’t forget. You know, there’s nothing unique about me as I repeat. Many thousands of others. And the real heroes are the ones that didn’t come back. They’re the real heroes. They made the sacrifice. We didn’t.
GT: Well, your sacrifice was your POW time.
JM: Yeah. That was a bit nasty.
GT: Yeah.
JM: I didn’t like that at all. I thought that was a bit unfair. Making me walk all those miles. Yeah. A bit unfair that [laughs] Trudging through snow. As far as your eye could see was snow. Just the telephone lines to tell you where they road because they were on the right hand side of the road. The only difference between the road and the field as far as the eye could see. Snow. And then the blizzards would start. Your eyelids would freeze. Close an eyelid and it would freeze. Oh dear. Glasses. I didn’t wear glasses then. Oh dear. It’s all [pause] it all seems to have happened to another person. Didn’t seem to have happened to me but it did. It did. Yeah. I showed you that mug, didn’t I?
GT: Yes.
JM: Yeah.
GT: Very good. Jim, let’s, let’s complete our interview now and thank you very much for, for your time and I will make sure your record is posted again with the IBCC and they will send you details of today’s visit and interview with you. So, thank you.
JM: I’ve enjoyed our time together, Glen. You’re a wonderful person yourself. Come on. Come on. No false modesty. You’ve done the armaments course. You know everybody that needs to be known and you’ve pumped me dry that’s for sure. With a great deal of skill I might add. Yeah.
GT: My special cause is you great gentlemen. So thank you. Righto. Ok.
JM: Thanks a lot, Glen.
GT: Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Ok. We’ll sign off now.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Glen Turner
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AMulhallJE180703
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending OH summary
Format
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01:57:40 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
James Mulhall trained as a flight engineer and was posted to 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal. On one operation the crew were surprised to be presented by the ground crew with a .303 bullet which proved that they had been the recipient of friendly fire. On their thirty fourth operation their Lancaster was shot down and the crew became prisoners of war. James undertook the long march from Stalag Luft 7 to Luckenwalde. After the war James returned to engineering work and eventually worked on V force aircraft.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
Belgium--Brussels
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany--Homberg (Kassel)
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Luckenwalde
Germany--Oberursel
Poland--Tychowo
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944-05
1945-07
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with James Mulhall. Two
75 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Caterpillar Club
displaced person
Dulag Luft
fear
flight engineer
Fw 190
incendiary device
Lancaster
memorial
perception of bombing war
prisoner of war
RAF Mepal
shot down
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march