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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/178/2341/PBriggsR1613.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/178/2341/ABriggsR160128.1.mp3
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Title
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Briggs, Roy
R Briggs
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. One oral history interview with Roy Briggs (1893726 Royal Air Force), his logbook, service material, training material, official documents and 12 photographs. Roy Briggs trained as a wireless operator and flew four operations with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton. He also took took part in Operation Manna and Operation Exodus as well as Cook’s tours over Germany.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Roy Briggs and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-01-28
Identifier
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Briggs, R
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and I am in Hemel Hempstead with Roy Briggs who was a wireless operator in the war and we’re going to start talking about his earliest days and right through to his working life as a civilian. So, Roy, where did it all start?
RB: In Battersea. I was lucky but we lived in a London terrace which was by the side of Clapham Junction Station, and Mac in number 3, my dad in number 5 married two girls from 17. There was still a girl and a boy left there. One, one aunt was married and one of the sons was married but they only lived locally so when I was born we moved to Balmoral [?] Street opposite Price’s Candle Factory alongside the Thames. We lived in a downstairs flat. This, what I’m saying now I’ve got vague remembrance but it’s mainly from the family talking. When the Thames got high the water come up the manholes and come down in the basement where we were and the police knocked us up and we, we went upstairs. We weren’t there long. My grandmother on my father’s side had diabetes and lost both her legs so mum, dad and me moved back to help grandad with nan so from then on I saw my two grandfathers and my grandmother every day. My grandad, who had come from the country, had rabbits, chickens and racing pigeons and I was very involved with him with the racing pigeons from an early age. He died by the time I was ten and I used to put rings on the, on the young birds. They used, he also got fairly bed ridden and he instructed me from the bed on what to do. I matched them up, pairing them up for mating and so I rung them. I took them up to Clapham Common and released them. We had a friend who used to race our pigeons so I was down there most days. My aunts, on Saturday afternoon, used to go to Battersea High Street and Northrop Road shopping and they used to come in to see grandad and grandad so on a Saturday afternoon it was, in the summer, it was the men playing darts in the garden and the girls chatting with nan and drinking tea indoors. [mild laughter] The only time that I went away I think I went to Westward Ho! I think it was only for a week, what they called in those days school journeys. We had an undertaker’s opposite us on the corner and horses. The Chapel of Rest was opposite us and the horses used to be there in those days when they went I went and picked up the manure and put it in buckets of water for grandad for watering his flowers and stuff. And in Battersea in those days that was sort of the life. My father worked at South Kensington Museum. The highlights in the summer used to be when he used to cycle home and come in to Battersea Park and mum used to take us down and we met in the park and had a picnic and played games before we came home. When I got bigger we used to go as far as Clapham Common and Wandsworth Common during the summer holidays but that was about it. I went to Shillington Street School at first until I was, till I was ten and then I went to Latchmere, Latchmere Road. I broke me thigh when I was ten, I didn’t realise it, playing football. On a Sunday morning going down to get the chicken food and the pigeon food I took the dog with me and on the way home I collapsed and got up and didn’t realise at the time but when I got up I shot the bones up. Somebody come to help me and that they hopped home and told me dad and he came down and got an ambulance and took me in to Battersea General Hospital where I was, where I was put on traction for weeks, for some weeks to pull me leg down and then when they took me down to plaster me they measured both my legs and the one that they hadn’t pulled down had grown so they put me up again to pull the other, the leg that had broken down to get it to the same length. My uncle worked for Battersea Borough Council, driving. Used to come and look over the wall, get on the back of the van and wave to me [laughs]. My grandad looked after the horses for Battersea Borough Council and he used to go in early of a morning and feed them and clean them, get them ready to take the dustcarts and that out so he used to come home about half past nine to have his breakfast. So, he, he was around during the day. He used to then go back in the evening to feed them and look after them in the evening. [pause] Yeah. That —
CB: What about school?
RB: Pardon?
CB: What about school? So, when did you leave school?
RB: 1939. I was, I’d put in for going to the, be a telegraph boy but went and had tests and that but there was people at sixteen who’d left Grammar School going for the same job because it was thought to be a fairly good job [laughs] in those days and I did not get accepted so I then started at Quickflows [?] it was supposed to be a good little engineering firm. So the Labour Exchange told me. They did Spitfire cockpits and also the sliding windows on London Transport buses. I got the job of cleaning the Bostik off round the glass that went in the frames to slide and as there was somebody there about nineteen and had been there since he was fourteen and he was still cleaning Bostik off the glass I did not [laughs] think it was a very good job. Luckily my mum had worked with somebody in the 14/18 war and her son worked for Benham and Sons, a catering company, and she had a word and he’d just finished his apprenticeship and he had a word and got me a job there. I think, I think it was somewhere about May ’45, er ‘39 I started there. They were starting to expand because they were getting contracts for the Ministry for cooking equipment and that because they’d started re-arming with cooking equipment if not the aircraft [laughs]. They were in, in Garratt Lane and they went over the River Wandle and they were having an extension built. They, they dug down and took half the Wandle up and built an air raid shelter in level with, in the Wandle [laughs] really and then built on top of it more workshops which were finished probably late, late ’39. Yeah. ‘39/’40. Yeah. I, first of all, started building dish washers and then I got in with Jimmy Thurgood who was a good all-rounder in his, in his thirties and he was the odd job man and with him I got a lot of experience and when I did sinks and drainers and boiling pans with him but, yeah he, if there was maintenance trouble quite often he used to get involved in it. Getting on in to, in to 1940 and Dunkirk our first Ministry contract was for hold fasts. It was one about half inch six steel plate and one about three quarters and they were somewhere about four foot square and they had, I believe, thirteen holes in them with thirteen tie rods about three foot long I believe. We made the tie rods and the nuts and one went either side. Being a catering firm we didn’t really have big lifting gear and somehow or other we got permission to use the Wandsworth Greyhound Stadium car park and Jimmy Thurgood and me went down there and we met a low loader with sixteen foot by eight foot sheets of steel. We took some crowbars with us and we crowbarred these sheets off the low loader on to the ground and at the same time, all very organised the [laughs] British Oxygen Lead [?] came with Oxy Acetylene boards which they unloaded there for us. We went back I suppose about a quarter of a mile away to the works and we picked up gauges and hoses and cutting equipment and went back down there and connected up and we cut these sheets into eight pieces, four foot square which was still not really handable [?] but a lot better. We, we put these on a trolley and pulled them along Garratt Lane to the works. They went in and they, they flame cut them to the shapes on the outside and then they went to the machine shop where there was only one machine. It cut, it drilled the thirteen holes which I think were somewhere about three quarters. As soon as they were done they were assembled and taken to Clapham Junction Railway Station and put on, in the guards van and they went straight down to the south coast but they were set in concrete for coastal guns to be connected to. The first contract was done in about seventeen days. A manager or director of the firm afterwards said to me said to me when I said about this ‘oh it didn’t matter what it cost’, but cost wasn’t in it. People just worked on it. They drilled the holes. If somebody went for a break then somebody else stepped in. The drills. There was a stock of them. When they needed re-sharpening they went to the tool room and re-sharpened and it it it just kept going all the time. After the first contract we got lots more and then we started, which was something very new, rocket [emphasis] launchers and Jimmy Thurgood and me were on, on the first of the rocket launchers. They, we had the sheets come in and there was lots of holes punched in them so that the heat could go through and, but they were made in to a half round with rolled edges either side and the rockets were just placed on them and fired. Fired. There was the back of it rested on the ground and there was two, like a tripod, fixed half way up. After the first ones other people started getting involved and Jimmy Thurgood and me we got involved in the firing gear, because the heat that came out of the end of the rocket melted [emphasis] the first firing gears [laughs] and [background laugh] we, we devised a, a nose which we did an [abrasion?] at the end which touched the contacts and it went back down on to a spindle with a, with a, a spring on it, and, I worked or we worked till about 1 o’clock the first time we were on this and there was a despatch rider waiting there and he took it down, I believe, to Aldershot where the rest was already down there and they fixed it on to try it out. The night superintendent came along and said, ‘What are doing here?’ We said, ‘We’ve been working here.’ Well he said, ‘Are you Roy Briggs?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘Your dad’s been on wanting to know if you were still working and I told him no.’ Of course there’d been an air raid and I wasn’t home [laughs]. So he said, ‘You’d better go.’ So, [laughing] as we’d finished I went home and dad was on the doorstep waiting for me. Yeah. We went in about 10 o’clock in the morning and by then we’d found out that it had been partly successful but not successful. We made a little bit of alteration to the shape but the main trouble was the springs. Anyway, we got, we’d, they’d got on to the spring manufacturers and we, we made two of these contacts during the day with the U shaped and in the evening the springs came and we fitted them and once again it went down to Aldershot. I think this lasted three or four days, three or four nights by which time we had a successful job and it went in to mass production. Yeah. But in ‘39 in the summer they had started calling people up and, to do I think it was six months National Service but because the war started before they got out and they were still in the services but after Dunkirk these people came back out of the forces because as they’d all sort of finished their apprenticeships it was easier to train soldiers to fire a gun than it did to make engineers which took much longer. Yeah, what, in fact one of them he come out and he got the chief, he was the chief Ministry inspector. A couple of others. We then started building rocket, anti-aircraft rocket launchers. I don’t know whether they have a name. When they were, they went into parks they were known as Z batteries. There was, they started off as singles and then there was four, doubles. The doubles were long tubes with about five holes drilled in them which had studs go through them and they were welded and cleaned off on the top and those studs held them on the framework. The base was, was round and went down and then these went on and we, we took over a printing works at Colliers Wood and they were made, all made over there. They went into the parks. Wormwood Scrubs there was no and I think, I think it was about sixty odd in a battery which fired about a hundred and twenty, a hundred and thirty rockets. They weren’t very accurate but they put a barrage up [background ‘Hmm’]. They carried on until 1943, when the army was getting short of people they took the people off these guns and ATS went on there and the Home Guard which were not really needed, they thought, then. There wasn’t much chance of invasion. They, they took over at nights as well. I do know one or two of the Home Guards who, who fired them. This, this time probably because I could, I could make simple tool jobs and we had half a dozen fly presses with ladies on them and I was more or less looking after them. It was, it was of a range. We had everybody from an actress to a lady whose father was a doctor and had never been out to work. Quite a shock for her to see what life was like. We had a prostitute. We had Kath whose husband had been killed at Dunkirk and yeah I more or less looked after them. Made sure the parts that they were putting through the fly presses were there and cleared away afterwards and if anything went wrong sorted it out. When I went to, yeah, the same time we’d taken over cheaper garages at northside, Wandsworth Common which we were, we were producing cooking equipment in. At Clapham Junction the milk depot closed down just before the war and we took over the milk depot at Clapham Junction and there ovens and stuff was made. There was, round Wandsworth High Street there was a dump or you could call it [laughs] you had a bit of a shelter, and not much but people worked in there doing sinks and drainers and by that time we were involved with the City and Guilds and their training rooms and that, professors and that were actually producing for us mass produced parts and that. Well there was one of the theatres. They took that over and that. It was a general office for getting war work done and we had gone from somewhere about five hundred people to, I think, about sixteen hundred people in that time. Colin. Colin Benham was quite well educated in engineering. His cousin, who was a commander in the navy, came out to help with us in the war work. There again, thought he had, with his, he had an engineering background I think, but, it was more useful. Miss Benham came and she, she looked after people who, who’d been bombed out and that and did things what she could for them and generally did work for them. Yeah. They had, they did their own ventilation stuff and sterilising. Big sterilisers. When it come to register I can’t remember which it was now. If you registered as a sheet metal worker you weren’t, you weren’t reserved occupation. If you were registered as a sheet arm worker you were. Or it was the other way around. Anyway, as I wanted to go in the air force, I’d been in the ATC, I registered as the one that went. I didn’t tell them that I’d put it down. And yeah while I was in the ATC we were attached to the Home Guard. We went down to Bisley throwing hand grenades and firing. We actually, in the ATC we actually had 1914/18 Lewis guns which they’d got out the dungeons from somewhere. I started off as number three but by the time I was going in the air force I got up to number one. Number three was, as they fired up to six hundred rounds or more a minute you know, you had to have a supply going. One fired and the other one fed it through I think and I, I got it up and then gradually we went up. Yeah. There was talk at the time that if we were invaded there was holes in the ground on Wimbledon common and that and some of us would go up there and come out to try and kill Germans. I thought afterwards that when, after Dunkirk, a little while afterwards there used to be reports come in that in villages in France somebody had come out and killed a German and they had killed all the, all the men and that over fourteen and things like that and then there were reports that they’d killed everybody in the villages, you know, I thought if I’d have come out and killed somebody how many of English and Londoners might have been wiped out by it. I had that in my mind all my life and glad it never happened. Yeah. We, we, we had a stick of bombs dropped around our road in October ’45. We’d had brick air raid shelters built in our back gardens. We had one and next door had one and there was just a three foot square hole which we could have got in to them or them in to us. I think there was about nine bombs came down. One of them had blown up and dad and me ran out and we went down the road and as I passed the house with somebody I used to go to school with he said, ‘Roy we’ve got a great big hole in our passage’ and I said, possibly a bomb by the side of it, probably a bomb had gone down so I said, ‘You’d better, better grab some clothes and get out in case it goes up.’ Before the war I used to help a green grocer setting up his stall before, before I went to school and on the way back home to get washed I used to take the vegetables into the fire station, Este [?] Road fire station which was in the next road to us. It was only half a dozen houses down so I did know the firemen in there. The fire engine from there came, came around and somebody I knew said, ‘Roy we’re here now. You go back home.’ So dad and me went back home, I was in the shelter and dad was in the doorway. We were talking to mum and there was a big bang and the bomb which was in this house had gone off. Dad and me raced down there. The fire engine was more or less wrecked and I couldn’t see the firemen I knew but anyway the other, other people were coming then. As we walked back home the moon was out and we saw a hole in the Flatt’s house. Jean, my sister was friendly with Jean, the daughter, and dad and me went and started banging on the door and couldn’t get any reply and next door come and said, ‘What are you banging on there for?’ We said, ‘The Flatt’s have got a hole in it, in their roof. Probably a bomb’s gone through it.’ So she said, ‘Oh. We’ll, we’ll go and tell them.’ They were in the shelter at the back and they went and told them and they came out and they grabbed some stuff and we helped them take it over outside in the car park at Clapham Station. They’d built an air raid shelter and we took it over but they went in the shelter and then we went back home. The, what we didn’t know that one of the bombs was on the shelter at the other end and later on it went off and killed, I think it killed two people in the shelter but [unclear] Jean and that. Yeah this must have been on the Friday night. On the Saturday morning I cycled over to the Beverly at North Cheam and my mum had had a friend over there who she’d worked with during the war and I said, said to ‘em, ‘Any chance of mum and my sister and me coming over?’ And they said, ‘Yeah come over.’ Her son was in the marines. ‘We got a four foot bed.’ So mum, me and my sister went over there and we slept together in the four foot bed [mild laughter] but dad stopped at home more or less. Dad patched up the windows and that that had gone, to look after the house really during the night. We had some old [unclear] but they didn’t bother to put, they didn’t bother to replace the windows. They put like a muslin over it, there was just the downstairs in the front that had a window in because people could have broken the, got through the muslin quite easy. The glass was a bit more difficult. Yeah and I cycled from North Cheam to Wandsworth in the morning. The raids were still on sometimes and the guns on Cannon Common were blazing away, shrapnel was coming down and when we went home of a night it was still, they were still firing and the shrapnel was still coming down. I’ve got a feeling that I did that for three or four months before we went back home. Yeah. March ‘43 I went for the first medical at North Cheam. I think some, early April, went to Euston House for the aircrew medical and selection board which I passed and got me number and the, and the King’s shillin’ and got deferred for two or three months but there was a great demand to get in as pilots but I think some of them were deferred for about a year there was, they had that many. Yeah. And in fact I was called up for going to Lord’s Cricket Ground on the 21st of June 1943. As I, as I went there I met Len Spratt who I spent the day with at, at Euston House and we went in and we, we got our injections at the same time in the long room. We dropped our trousers in the long room. W G Grace was on the, a picture of him was on the wall. [phone rings in background] I don’t remember but they, they said that they used to turn W G Grace’s around.
[phone ringing and then phone conversation]
CB: So we —
RB: It’s a bit —
CB: We’re just on W G Grace and when you were at um when —
RB: Yeah.
CB: You went to Lords and he was looking down on you.
RB: Yeah but they do say that they used to, used to turn him around when we dropped our trousers but in all of it I don’t remember that [laughs]. Yeah. We, we were in flats opposite Regents Park Zoo. Len and me were in the same room and, in fact, I can cut it short, we were always in the same room or the same hut for the next year. We, we went in to the zoo four times a day to eat. In the restaurants not in, not in the cages. Along by our flats were Stockleigh Hall and another posh one. I must be getting old I can’t remember their names. Yeah, and they had a garage underneath and they did put a canteen in there but we still we were talking to people afterwards who were at Lords they that they were still using the zoo for quite some time. We went to Seymour Hall for lectures and swimming. You could march down there and have a lecture in the morning and go in the afternoon and they’d removed the flooring and you were in, in for swimming. There was a garage at the roundabout at St Johns Wood and they took that over and that’s where we got kitted out. In, in the park was [pause] anyway I can’t remember at the moment. They used that as the hospital. The normal run was to stop at Lords for nineteen days. Some, some things were, activities took place in Lords. They had the gas mask room built there and you went in and tested your gas mask. You got paid there, sat on the seats in Lords till you got called out for your pay. We did our first marching in Regents Park and in the back streets there. First four, three nights were spent putting your names on all your clothes and that. After that you were allowed out where most of the Londoners took their civvy kit home and sort of saw their parents. Unless you were on guard most evenings were free. Yeah, after the nineteen days we went to the railway at Olympia. I think it was called Olympia and there was another name for it where there was a troop train in there and it was just the one train and all the different trades went on and they dropped off a couple of carriages every, every here and there going along. We used to then, got taken to, either pilots or navigators, where they were going. We went to Bridgenorth which was up on the high level. There was a lift to go down to get on the street level down by the river. Yeah. Yeah. We went out to, there was 18 and 19 ITWs which was mainly wireless operators and air gunners. I, I had actually gone in as wireless operator/air gunner and at that stage I was still a wireless operator/air gunner. Probably jumping the gun a bit. Early in oh probably the decision had already been made and hadn’t got through that to stop training wireless operators as WOPAGS for Bomber Command. The, the thought was that if your gunner got killed or anything and you had to go back, by the time you got back, operated the dead man’s handle which lined the turret up with the fuselage, opened the doors at the back, disconnected his oxygen, his intercom and got that out of the way. Got hold of him and pulled him in and if he needed first aid badly to stop it and then we’d have got in to the turret we would probably have been shot down anyway so after that ruling come out we stopped doing the full air gunner’s course although we did enough that we could have got in and fired them. If the wireless operators were going to Coastal Command they then went on and did the air gunner’s course because all the gunners I believe and wireless operators operated air gunners and they did a swap around on sixteen hour flights that they all had a break from whatever they were doing. Yeah. I, I stopped with Len for all that time and then they said he had webbed feet and got to go to Coastal Command. We don’t believe it [laughs] and I’ve still kept in touch till today. Yeah. We, at, at Madley after ITW we went to Madley where we flew on Dominies where you could have an instructor and a number of you went in there and you had the one set and went through it, after that you went into Percival Proctors which is just well, [?] you and the pilot in the main although there were some three seaters if anybody was having trouble and they needed an instructor up with them. Most of the, most of the flights were about fifty five minutes but the most dangerous part was coming back to land because they used to see the NAAFI van leaving the site and they had Lyons fruit pies which were delicious but there was a very limited number and they all wanted to get in to get their pies. There were one or two collisions when the airfield controller fired Very cartridges to tell people not to land. They always thought he was firing at somebody else I think. Yeah. It was, it was pretty hard work on, on training. You, we had Morse. At the same time we did things which health and safety and things because I suppose they thought we were all going to end up as officers and NCOs. We did things like setting up camps by a river and taking the water for cooking from the top and washing and using the ablutions down the way the water was lying. [laughs] Yes. We had to do fault finding on, on the radios, coding and things and you used to get a test on these. Some were about every fortnight or so. If you did not do very well then you went to evening classes and I believe a week was eight days so that the schools were used every day. You had a different day off every week. If you went on evening school and then on the next time you hadn’t picked up or perhaps it was a couple of times you then went to FT which was Further Training and you didn’t want to do that ‘cause you lost all your mates. You went back a few courses. I, I was nearly always on extra training but I never went to FT. The people who went to FT if they went back a few courses and then didn’t succeed they were then ceased training and well the only place for them really was to go as air gunners. We had people who, who joined us at Madley who had been to America and failed as pilots and then go on the training as navigators and had failed at, failed as navigators. I believe some of them after that went, went as bomb aimers. Yeah, in fact we had one chap who reckoned he’d worked it that he’d fail his pilot’s and failed as a navigator. I don’t know whether the air force had caught, caught on to him but when he took his wireless operator’s exams he just scraped through and I don’t know whether the air force had done that deliberately and he was the first one that had to bale out [laughs]. Yes, well I got me, got my sergeant’s stripes about a fortnight before I was nineteen, went on leave and then we went back and then we still did another about three months wireless operator’s training. After that we went to Llandwrog, North Wales. Number 9 OAFU I think it was. They were flying Ansons and we got bearings for the navigators who were really having more, more experience of flying and training where they were going but I believe sometimes we used to fly two or three times a day with different crews. I think we were only there about a month. After that we went to 30 OTU at Hixon and we got crewed up. We, we got Reg, Reg Featherstone as a pilot, Johnny Smale as the navigator, Roy Briggs as wireless operator, Benny Benson as a rear gunner and me and the navigator disagreed afterwards about whether we got Taffy Jones as a mid-upper. He seems to think that we didn’t get a mid-upper until we went to Heavy Conversion Unit but I’m sure he’s wrong. Oh and we got a bomb aimer. This is bad [laughs]. He was an Indian civil servant. I can’t, I can’t believe I can’t remember his name. [laughs].
[pause]
Right. We’ll have to come back to that. After doing ground training we started flying. Reg was struggling rather and he, we soon sort of always had another pilot in with us and I think it was probably only after a couple of weeks we had the chief flying instructor in with us for a couple of times and Reg got grounded. Unfit for heavy aircraft. So, we become a headless crew. Robbie Roberts had, had joined the air force before the war. He had been seconded to the Royal Navy and had spent some time on the Ark Royal. He then re-mustered for pilot training and went to South Africa, and I believe South Africa and Rhodesia for pilot training and ended up, I can’t remember what the, what aircraft he flew but he did a tour in the Middle East before coming back to England. He was then at Hixon as a headless crew and we got together and luckily because he’d got this mass experience it didn’t lose us too much time because he had twin engine experience. So we, we swapped between Hixon and Seighford. Spent some of the time over at Seighford for OTU. When we were at Hixon they were a rotten lot. They said as we got in the plane, we were on circuits and bumps at Seighford and they said, ‘Roy take us back to Hixon will you?’ and I said, ‘Yes,’ full of confidence and I got in and we took off and I worked like mad to get Hixon to recognise my call sign amongst the other three hundred who were trying to get it. Eventually I got through and I got a bearing and all proud I said fly so, so and so and so and they were all looking at me and laughing and they went like that and we were about two foot off the ground [laughs]. Yeah talking about like that when we were on Lancs the navigator used to call the sign out for the, to get the speed out for the pilot. Of course the pilots didn’t do anything. Only drive. I mean the engineer used to push the throttles up with him. He used to do what I told him. He used to do what the navigator told him and the gunners if they wanted him to do something he had to do what they told him. Yeah and Johnny was calling out the speeds and I, it was getting slower and slower and I was looking at him and he looked at me with panic in his eyes because we shouldn’t be up in the air and we weren’t. Rob had made that good a landing we were on the ground. We were all looking at the, on the other hand Rob did a rotten landing and we bounced and Len said, ‘Oxygen going on skipper.’ [laughs, including background laugh] They were a few of the, yeah, from, we were, we were actually in a field at Hixon by the side of the railway. I don’t know whether you remember but in the, in the ‘40s after Hixon packed up English Electrics took over the hangers and they were taking one of their big transformers and it got stuck on the level crossing and a train hit it. There was a loss of life but that was actually at that level crossing in the field that we used to stop in. Yeah.
[pause]
Yes. We then went on to a holding unit I think, for a couple of weeks before going to Swinderby. We started heavy conversion on, on Stirlings. After Stirlings and when you were used to four engines you used to then go to Lancaster Finishing School if you were going on Lancasters but a couple of weeks into our course there was enough Lancs available and they phased, the courses in front of us carried on on the Stirlings but we were the first at Lancaster course to go right through on, on Lancasters. Yeah, we picked up Len Piddington as the, he was a pilot flight engineer. In 1944 they had trained that many pilots they didn’t know what to do with them so they sent a complete courses of flight engineers from St Athans to the army ‘cause the army was shorter, short of people and these pilots went to St Athans and did an engineer’s course on the promise that if they completed a tour on Lancs on Bomber Command they could then go back and re-muster and finish and carry on as a pilot for Lancs then but of course the war finished and none of them had finished a course by the time, I don’t think, a tour by then. I have met one person who carried on flying on Lancasters and finished his tour and went back and then trained as a pilot and he went into Lancs. We then, I think we went to a holding unit, Balderton I believe, because there wasn’t all that much flying. There was a lot of snow around in Lincolnshire but it wasn’t, it wasn’t too long because we went to Fiskerton. The pilot and I think the navigator, some of the crews went second [?] dicky on tour with an experienced crew, they never entrusted me with anybody [laughs]. They, on the day after me twentieth, yeah my twentieth birthday because I was the only teenager in the crew by this time, Benny who was a teenager when we first crewed up had had his twentieth birthday. I, [pause] we, I don’t think I went out drinking because we were on an air test of N-Nan which had completed a hundred ops so we flew around N for Nan. I think it was an air test. Afterwards we flew, N-Nan did a hundred and thirteen ops and we took it on its hundred and tenth and the hundred and eleventh. Yeah. We then had a week’s leave to, which they used to say to go and say goodbye to your family and before starting ops and went back. We got called for an op which I think they called us about midnight which got cancelled and then we, we got called back to the briefing room for an attack at Plauen on the German Czech border. This was one of the targets that the, Churchill and Stalin had agreed needed bombing. It was er, we took off just after 6 o’clock and got back something like I think it was nine hours. Nine hours trip, which seeing we’d been up for an op the day before and we then had to go in for the debriefing and a meal. Carried on for quite a while and I think it was four days later we got called to do a daylight on Potsdam on the outskirts of Berlin. We were all briefed and ready to go and the Met Flight said that the weather was too bad over there so it got cancelled. We got called back to the briefing room later on and the stream was told us it was still Potsdam but there was still one going around Germany. They told us that the Potsdam raid was still on. This was the first time Berlin had been bombed for about a year. The last time by Lancasters. The last time they’d lost about forty two I think. Mosquitos had carried on bombing Berlin of the night, light night bomber force. They used to bomb regular with their one four thousand pounder. In fact in the darkest days Mosquitos used to do two flights a night. A crew would take off in light over here, bomb Berlin, come back, a new crew, new bomb and another crew would take off and it would be light by the time they got back. Anyway, we were told we weren’t going to Potsdam. We were going on a daylight training aircraft were going to have OTUs and heavy conversions were going to fly towards Germany to pick up the fighters like this was just going to be our squadron. I’m not sure if we had one or two Mosquitos and we were going to fly around Germany and bomb Cuxhaven on the way back and I don’t know whether it was because we had an experienced captain we could then go back in and see what we could see on fires and that and then I could send a message which I didn’t want to do because the German fighters could pick up on your radio. But they, we felt that they were risking our lives unnecessarily because if there had have been fires we were going to be home in an hour and a half. We could have told them. [laughs] Anyway, we went back in, didn’t really see anything. I mean we didn’t have enough aircraft really to get any fires going and I did code a message up and send it, send it back. Oh yes and on the nine hours to Plauen it was an extra long night because somebody had a puncture in front of us and we couldn’t get back to, to our dispersal and had to stop and wait there until they organised somebody to come and pick us up and a ground crew to come and take over the aircraft because we had to sign to say that any faults and that was on it. Yeah so yes so that was it. After that we had, yeah on the 18th of April we, we were briefed to bomb Heligoland. The main reason for this was that the Royal Navy were going along the North German coast supporting the army and Heligoland had U-boats and E-boats and submarines which they felt could come back and attack the navy by the rear. Yeah. There was approximately eight hundred Lancasters and two hundred Halifaxes on the raid. We, I think we bombed Sylt. It was an island by the side of, with a little airfield on it or an airfield on it. I don’t think they’d been using the aircraft from there for some time. Somebody hit the oil storage tanks and the master bomber didn’t have much, a chance of directing bomber. I think he said, ‘Bomb the smoke, under bomb the smoke as you get in and then over bomb the centre of the smoke and port and starboard of the smoke’ you know so yeah there was only a couple of Halifaxes lost I think. It’s probably the only time I saw the thousand aircraft ‘cause we bombed and we went over we turned around to come back and we either saw the aircraft that bombed in front of us or those that were still going in to bomb you know because normally on nights you didn’t see them anyway and on other daylights if they went and bombed and carried on you didn’t see them. After that we started, mixed up with a briefing for the 20th for Hitler’s birthday to bomb Berchtesgaden, we were also being briefed and I believe we had something like twenty briefings for Bremen. Bremen, the army was having trouble in some places to advance and in other places were going easy and we kept going back to the briefing room and eventually we got, we got briefed for Berchtesgaden and we, I think we got out to the aircraft and the Met Flight said the weather over the Alps was too bad so it got cancelled. I’m not sure if the next day or the day after, yeah, the 22nd I think we went to Bremen. Yeah, in the end we went to the briefing room and they said that they were gonna withdraw troops to a certain line for, in the evening and they were ordered to come back to that line and we were going to bomb in front of it. As it was I think when we got there and we were going in as we got along there, there was some cloud and the master bomber said, ‘Apple Tart,’ which was don’t bomb. So we went there and we didn’t bomb. I think whether some aircraft earlier or after went and bombed but we didn’t bomb. The, a couple of days afterwards I think it was about eleven thousand garrison surrendered. [pause] And, oh yeah and then the squadron, we didn’t go, I think about the 25th they bombed Berchtesgaden but as we bombed, as we’d done four or five we were on a stand down and the Berchtesgaden one, that was the last one on the squadron. We, we somewhere amongst then we got a cross country looking for [pause] windmills [laughs] sorry. Sorry I had a job to remember the word. Yeah. We went around Norfolk looking for windmills not knowing what it was but on the 29th we got called to the briefing room to say that we weren’t going to drop bombs. We were going to drop food over Holland. And that was the first of our six trips over, over Holland. When we come they said that we, they hadn’t got permission for us to drop the food and they weren’t sure how the Germans were going to take it. They were going to tell them we were going to go and were hoping they were going to get away with it. Nobody got fired on although there were reports that some of the Germans were still with their guns and that but so we, so we came back and we got called to the briefing room on the 30th and were told that as we had got away with it the day before they were going to do it again and send some more aircraft in the hopes that the Germans wouldn’t think that we would do that and then they would open fire. We did it on the second and then the next, the next, the next day we got called and were more or less told the same although I believe later on that day that the, they did agree that we could go over and do it so, yeah. So we did another three we did six drops to I think, the Hague, Rotterdam, Delft and Valkenburg airfield. Amongst the children there was a girl who now works in our charity shop up the shops and we’ve got chatting and I’ve, I’ve taken her to an aircrew buffet and told her that I was feeding her sixty nine years ago. I didn’t still think I’d be feeding her sixty nine years afterwards. We’re great, we’re great friends.
CB: What height were you flying when you dropped —
RB: Oh I should think about two fifty foot or something like that wasn’t it? About two hundred miles an hour I think.
CB: And was the food in the bomb bay or how was it released?
RB: It was in the bomb bay. It was in nets. Yeah.
CB: So how did they, how were they released?
RB: By the bomb aimer on, as though he was dropping —
CB: In a sequence was it?
RB: He just dropped the lot you know and they, but they, you know, you could see the targets anyway but they had pathfinders had put targets, targets down. Yeah,
CB: Could you see the locals?
RB: Pardon?
CB: Could you see the local?
RB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you could see, you were close enough to see them. Yeah.
CB: What were they doing?
RB: Pardon?
CB: What were they doing?
RB: Waving and, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and they by the end they had put in flowers “Thank you RAF” Yeah. Because they, it was about nineteen thousand extra people died during that winter which they take it was you know the starvation and that. They were eating bulbs and things. The, the Germans weren’t really feeding them and the Dutch had gone on strike to help for their bit for the war effort. Yeah. I think this lady I talked to I think she was fairly well off and they had a maid and they, they, they took some of their valuables. They got her to take them in a pram out in to the country where people were a bit well off to try and sell it, you know.
CB: What’s her name?
RB: Ellen, Ellen.
[pause]
CB: I think we’ll take a break there.
RB: Right.
CB: Thank you.
[pause]
CB: We’ve just had a break for one or two things. By the way this is the 28th of January and we’re now going to carry on with Roy. We’re close to the end of the war, right at the end of the war but we’re talking about Operation Manna. So Roy how did you get briefed about this and what were your reactions as a crew?
RB: Well we went to the briefing room and were told that we weren’t going to drop bombs we were going to drop food. I don’t, I think it was a shock really that there was, they’d said that they’d tried to get permission from the Germans but they weren’t playing you know and that the Dutch were in such a state that they’d offered to let a ship go in but the, I believe but the Germans had said no. Yeah, it was a bit of shock yeah that I, I know that I’ve read that a CO wasn’t pleased that he was telling his crews to go in at about two hundred miles an hour and two hundred and fifty feet or something like that and there was no, no agreement and that they were going to tell the Germans that we were coming, you know, over the radio yeah. But as, I mean I could never really have imagined myself dropping bombs over Germany. In fact, as a little titbit, you know when we got, I think it was over Bremen or somewhere. I thought, is this me? A boy from Battersea doing this, you know. There wasn’t much flying before the war. It was a different world. And everything it’s just when it all starts it’s all far away and it just goes one step at a time, you know and then all of a sudden you’re on a squadron and then all of a sudden your skipper goes on a second dicky and that and it’s getting nearer and you’ve been trained for it for twenty one months you know and it’s, it is all, it is all a case of doing one step and somehow thinking that what, if anything bad is going to happen it’s going to happen to somebody else. Not you. Yeah. No. I mean even the second day there was a thought of oh when they said they were going to send more we thought are they going to let us build up you know, to, before they fired at us. They just, I think when we got over there glad that those in front of us if they, well if they’d have been firing on them we’d have no doubt turned around and come back. Yeah. Because you know I mean they could have virtually fired at you with rifles couldn’t they, I mean. Because the Dutch people had been good to aircrew that had come down over their land. They were good ‘cause the Manna Association went over there for years after the war and took part in their, I think it’s their Freedom Day or something isn’t it?
CB: And when you got back from the sorties what discussions did you have as a crew?
RB: Well, we, we’d got away, you know. They hadn’t fired on us, you know and we sort of accepted it. That we had got away with it. But there was, there was that thought that the next day was, was going to be a build up but no. That was—
CB: So you’d done two. Now you get to number three. What are you feeling now?
RB: Yeah well after that we did, I think it was after the third that we were told when we come back from our third that they had agreed that we could —
CB: No.
RB: Go on dropping there. Yeah.
CB: So you stopped at six.
RB: Yeah.
CB: So what was the reason for that?
RB: VE day I think.
CB: Right. OK
RB: Yeah.
CB: Ok. So in the beginning you’ got the apprehension. What was the briefing about? If the Germans did fire on any of the aircraft ahead what were you going to do?
RB: I don’t know that there was much, you know, that they were just hoping that they wouldn’t.
CB: Just go in —
RB: I think we were about the third squadron in you know so we were in the early stages of it.
CB: Right.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Ok. So fast forward now to the last raid and we’ve got the end of the war. So can we carry on the narrative there? What happened then?
RB: We, Bomber Command brought, I think, something like seventy two thousand released prisoners of war back in twenty seven days. We took Uncle over to B58 at Rotterdam. No. Was it Rotter?
CB: Melsbroek?
RB: What?
CB: Melsboek?
RB: No, B58 at, Holland anyway. We took a service aircraft over. We had a spare wheel and a ground crew and we went over and landed there. It was no air traffic control. I think from, from, from H hour to twenty five past aircraft landed. From H30 to 55, aircraft took off and that’s how it was. You know, there was discipline and it went, and they they came in and they landed and loaded them up with troops and away they went.
CB: So this was Operation Exodus. Where did you fly into with these POWs?
[pause]
CB: Because Westcott here —
RB: Pardon?
CB: Westcott up the road here?
RB: No. No, we didn’t bring any back. Although they say we did we didn’t bring anybody back, in my actual log I’ve got them asking me whether flight sergeant somebody of, did we have him on board.
CB: Ah.
RB: He was on compassionate leave.
CB: Oh right.
RB: And we brought him home but the squadron records say that we didn’t bring anybody home.
CB: Right.
RB: We one of the other aircraft brought some Red Cross.
CB: So as such you weren’t part of Operation Exodus.
RB: Pardon?
CB: As such —
RB: No. No.
CB: The squadron wasn’t part of Operation Exodus.
RB: No. No. No.
CB: Ok. Well don’t worry about that. So we’ve got to the end of the war. Then what?
RB: We took, I think we took some people around Germany. Some ground crew. To see. And then we went to Bari and Naples bringing troops home.
CB: Oh you did.
RB: Yeah. We, yeah.
CB: So just on the round robins, the Cooks tours they called them. What height did you fly over the cities? Cause that’s what you were doing.
RB: Not very high so people could see. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And what was your relationship with your ground crew during the, during hostilities anyway.
RB: Yeah we got on alright with them all but seeing as we flew a number of different aircraft you know you didn’t get the same ground crew all the time.
CB: Oh right.
RB: I mean some, some people seemed to do twenty, twenty trips in the same aircraft.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and more.
RB: No. All I got here is Exodus. Service aircraft to B58
CB: Right. Anyway, on the Cooks tours where did you fly then?
RB: Essen, Cologne, Aachen and Antwerp.
CB: Right.
RB: I think that might have been the only one we did. Yeah ‘cause in, in May ‘45 by the end of the month all Australians, Canadians and foreign people had gone out of the, out the crews, you know.
CB: Oh right.
CB: They went home immediately.
RB: Yeah they yeah they got out. So, I mean, I know a pilot, he was the only Englishman. He was on leave and went back and they’d all gone. [laughs]
CB: Didn’t even get a chance to say goodbye.
RB: No. No. No. No.
CB: I bet he, yeah, what was the relationship in your crew like?
RB: Yeah alright there was only one snag was the mid upper gunner.
CB: Oh go on. What about him.
RB: He had a girlfriend in Leicester.
CB: Taffy Jones.
RB: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So he went there a lot.
RB: Yeah and you know we covered for him when we were more or less in briefings and he didn’t get back till the last minute and things. Yeah.
CB: So what, so did the crew socialise a lot.
RB: Yeah well you really had to because other crews were doing things at the time.
CB: Yeah.
RB: We basically knew our crew and then I knew wireless operators, the navigator knew navigators because they had —
CB: Yeah.
RB: Sessions together, you know. I might, if you got friendly with another wireless operator there was a, chances are that you might get sort of a bit friendly with the other crew but they would be flying other times so you know other than being in the mess —
CB: So how did the crew feel about Taffy Jones going off all the time?
RB: Yeah [laughs] We’d know that there was, there was —
CB: What did the crew say to him?
RB: Well at times we felt as we should dump him, you know.
CB: Did you?
RB: Yeah. Yeah. The rest of us were, were alright you know.
CB: Commonly known as pee’d off.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Because the flight engineers didn’t join till after OTU how was Len Piddington selected? Or did he just appear?
RB: I think, I think he just appeared. I can’t remember now, you know but yeah.
CB: Yeah and how, how did he get on?
RB: Yeah he was a Londoner you know and we had, yeah.
CB: So now we are at the end of the war what happened then?
RB: We went down to Wyton. No we went down to Upwood. Upwood was due for a clean up after the war so we went, we got transferred to Wyton. By the end of August 576 and 156 were being disbanded. Alan Craig was CO of 35 err 156. He was ex- Halton he’d done a number of master bomber trips and they, they did six Lancasters with Lincoln engines in to try them out and he did master bomber trips on them trying them out. I suppose because he had an engineering background because of Halton.
CB: What was his name?
RB: Alan Craig.
CB: Oh Alan Craig. Ok.
RB: He was well known and he got picked to take 35 Squadron around America in 1946. He, as the squadron was being disbanded he went over there to Graveley. He grounded some of their crews and they not very, they weren’t very pleased with him and he sent over to 156. My skipper was in line for going but he, his, he got married in ‘44. Joan who lived in Stratford on Avon and I take it there were a lot pilots around there she had been engaged twice and both got killed and when they got married she thought flying was dangerous and when the war finished he was to give up flying. As he’d been in before the war he was due for demob by the time they were going to America so he would have had to sign on and he wouldn’t sign on so that wiped our crew out. Flight Lieutenant Jenkinson DFM he, I don’t know how, he didn’t have a wireless operator and I’d kept me nose clean. Nothing special but you know just did as I should do. The signals officer, we got on alright but he got on alright with lots of them you know and him and Jenkinson asked whether I would like to go with them so I said yes because my crew had well I think a couple of them had already been posted to other places. Me navigator was on his way out to the Middle East. He was an accountant and he was going on ground crew in the accounts somewhere. The bomb aimer’s going. Len they sent over to, to another squadron. I mean why they, why they took him and put on another squadron. Benny, the rear gunner he went to another squadron. Yeah. So I went over to Graveley. We got our white Lancs and started flying and we were going to be Alan Craig’s crew. We spent hours in the crew room waiting for him to take us up to fly but he never did because he had other things to do and then a signal came through from High Wycombe that it was all pathfinder crews and it had got, been remade with crews from each of the bomber groups so you’ve heard of Sir Mike Beetham have you?
CB: Absolutely.
RB: He come from East Kirkby down to Graveley and swapped with a crew. We swapped with a crew from 138 at Tuddenham and, I was, I was torn. When he come he didn’t have a wireless operator and I said did I [?] want to stop with him and you know I didn’t want to lose my crew so I said no. It was the worst thing I ever did really because when they got us over there to Tuddenham we were a new crew and they were grounding crews left, right and centre. They sent. They us on leave. I got recalled the next day and got posted so I never saw any of Jenks crew. The day after I left the two gunners come back and got posted. So I found out. By the time the pilot come back he didn’t have a crew. They’d all gone, you know [laughs]. So yeah at Tuddenham we were doing photographic work for town and country planning. We didn’t do much because we were making maps over bombed areas but quite often you know with cloud and that we didn’t get all that much photographic work done. And anyway I don’t know whether I would have gone because Flight Lieutenant Koreen [?] had a mid-air crash. He had a nose and he went into somebody’s tail and the wireless operator had frostbite and I never did find out whether he went around America.
CB: So they took their Lancasters with them did they?
RB: Yeah they did.
CB: To America.
RB: Yeah they went around. Sixteen —
CB: Good Lord.
RB: Sixteen went around America. Yeah. Yeah. I did, I did have all the cuttings and that.
CB: Yeah.
RB: And um —
CB: But you never went.
RB: No. I didn’t go but I knew the people, a lot of the people, and I thought of, and when I saw Mark Beetham up at Hendon once I said ‘I got them’ and he said ‘I didn’t ‘ave it cause I was there’ so I handed over to him all the photos and that that I had. Yeah. Yeah it’s like. How far are we going to go on?
CB: No, we’re just, it’s just a question of what you did at the end of the war.
RB: Yeah.
CB: ‘Cause you came out in ’47.
RB: Yeah.
CB: So what did you do between the end of the war and when you were demobbed?
RB: I went to Cranwell on a, on a course for VHF Homer. Do you know?
CB: Yeah.
RB: VHF Homers? I operated a VHF Homer at Wyton. Only for a day or two. I was on air traffic control as an RT operator giving aircraft permission to take off and land. I, I was on duty now, now, now I’m going to do a bit of a shine [?] I was on darkie watch. Darkie watch. Anybody know darkie watch?
CB: That’s, no. No
Other: No. No.
RB: It was on channel 4. The transmission was I think was ten to twelve miles maximum so if you were in trouble during the war you could use plain language.
CB: Yeah.
RB: And you could say —
CB: Oh it could only go twelve miles.
RB: Eh?
CB: Yeah.
RB: You could say Lancaster of 576 squadron I’m lost.
CB: Right.
RB: They could put searchlights up and things like that.
CB: Oh right.
RB: If you had trouble they could get somebody to talk if he was injured or in trouble and things like that. Anyway, I was the only one, there was no flying so I was the only one on air traffic control for the night. I took a —
[pause]
CB: We’re just pausing to look at documents.
RB: I took a call from Group in the night that the Americans had lost a Dakota in the Alps. Oh I’ve already told you every, every three weeks we were duty Air Sea Rescue [?] Squadron and had to have an aircraft standing by all the time. I think we had airborne life boats which had come in. We had one of those. We never used it as far as I know and I switched on the tannoy and said, ‘Emergency air sea rescue. Emergency air sea rescue. Emergency air sea rescue. All air and ground crews report immediately. All duty air and ground crew should report immediately.’ I rung up the crash crew to make sure they’d heard me. The Met girl had come up before she’d gone off. I knew the winds. I’d put the runway lights on, I’d put the perimeter lights on and by the time the, I can’t believe it now but I believe it only took somewhere, something about just over a quarter of an hour for a crew to come ready to take off and by that time ‘cause I wasn’t supposed to give the aircraft permission the flying control officer was supposed to be there. I mean when I was on an airfield by meself overnight I wondered whether if it had ever happened you know if someone had said, ‘I’m in trouble.’ I had to [?] switch the lights on for them to land. What would have happened —
CB: Yeah.
RB: You know, but officially?
CB: What rank —
RB: So —
CB: What rank are you now for authority?
RB: I’m warrant officer.
CB: You are. Right.
RB: Yeah. Yeah the, anyway we got them off and they went to the Alps and they did find the Lanc but I think they —
CB: The Dakota.
RB: Pardon?
CB: The Dakota.
RB: Yeah, they found the Dakota. They saw it a number of times. In fact I can probably tell you how many times they found it. [pause] Anyway, in the Alps, flying, they’d saw it a number of times and there was a crash crew from Milan sent to find them and I think they went across to Castel Benito for the night and then went back the next day.
CB: Right.
RB: I suppose being the nearest —
CB: Yeah.
RB: Anyway they went over and —
CB: This was a daylight operation?
RB: This is looking for daylight in the Alps, yeah. I have got the cuttings here.
CB: So why didn’t the Americans send a plane to search?
RB: I don’t know. I don’t know. In fact, in fact I think afterwards they did sort of say that —
CB: Can we look at those in a minute?
RB: Yeah. Yeah well yeah well that —
CB: Yeah.
RB: That is the paper reports.
CB: Yeah.
RB: And it’s in focus and we diverted the Lanc to what is now London Airport to be interviewed by the BBC.
CB: Right. Amazing.
RB: And I’ve here got the signal from the American air force. Message received as follows from the USA Air Force in Europe, ‘Please convey our deep appreciation for the efforts in finding our aircraft and the hard work put in.’
CB: Brilliant.
RB: And when we were clearing up they said, ‘Roy you did most of it. You’d better take that with you.’
CB: Very gratifying.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
RB: Yeah.
CB: So when are we talking about? 1946 is this?
RB: This is ‘46.
CB: Ok. And you were at Cranwell.
RB: No. No, I’d come from Cranwell. I’d done the course at Cranwell.
CB: Oh right.
RB: I’m back at Upwood.
CB: Back at Upwood. Ok.
RB: Yeah.
CB: So you’ve done, you’re still flying intermittently.
RB: No. No.
CB: Not at all.
RB: No. No.
CB: Ok so how did you come so we’re in ‘46 but you didn’t leave till ‘47 so what did you do in the rest of the time?
RB: RT at Upwood.
CB: Ok and how did your demob come about?
RB: You got a demob number. Your age and when you went in and mine was 45 and that was due out but it varied on trades because believe it or not in some trades they were short. Trades which had been built up at the beginning of the war were due for demobbing and if they hadn’t, if they didn’t need more along the line yeah and I did while I was at Upwood the only other highlight was I went over to Wyton because they were short of an RT operator over there and somebody on the VHF Homer and I did, I did a day or two on the VHF Homer over there. Yeah.
CB: So your demob date was actually 1945 but you didn’t take it till ’46?
RB: No, no, no that was 45 was the number.
CB: Oh sorry.
RB: But it came up —
CB: Beg your pardon.
RB: It came up. Wireless operators. It was due March ’47.
CB: Right.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Ok so then you knew that in advance.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Where did you go for demob?
RB: Lytham St Anne’s at Blackpool.
CB: Ok and what happened then?
RB: They said did I want to go back in? [laughs]
CB: Yeah. And you said —
RB: No. Well those, at that time well pre-war the air force spent a lot of time overseas. In actual fact about that time squadrons of Lancs used to go to the Middle East and that for a month and come back, you know so it would have been a whole different ball game then if, from the —
CB: So when did you meet your wife Joyce? What was she doing?
RB: 1943.
CB: Right. Where was she?
RB: Um she was in Battersea. Yeah, she worked for the Red Cross and St Johns Joint Organisation [?]
CB: And so you saw her intermittently or how did you —
RB: It was intermittently, yeah. Yeah, yeah I mean I was only coming home once every three months for leave sort of thing or —
CB: Yeah.
RB: An odd weekend.
CB: So that was another motivation for leaving the RAF was it?
RB: Yeah and to really I suppose to start doing something for, for me life you know.
CB: Yeah. So what had you chosen to do when leaving the RAF?
RB: I didn’t choose it. I got a job in engineering didn’t I?
CB: And you went back to it.
RB: I went back to it yeah.
CB: Ok. And they had to, it was a reserved —
RB: Pardon?
CB: Place? They had to take you back.
RB: Well yeah when I went back in there he said, ‘I’m not taking you back. I didn’t want you to go and you went.’ He was joking he was. [laughs]
CB: Oh right.
RB: Yeah. I I didn’t really have any young life, you know, even social life ‘cause I went to evening school for three years and evening school was evening school. There was no day release in those days you know. I used to work till 6 o’clock and race home and drink a cup of tea and race to be at Wandsworth Tech by quarter to seven, you know.
CB: And what was the course?
RB: Sheet metal plate work.
CB: Right.
RB: And after I passed it I went back in to work and said I passed my course and they said, ‘Right, Roy, we will give you a rise. We will put you up from one and seven pence farthing to one and seven pence three [emphasis] farthings.’
CB: Fantastic.
RB: And a little while later they said we’ve got a contract for Kirkup [?] Oil Pipeline and their cooking equipment as they’ve got so much oil they want it oil [?] fired so the boiling pans if we give you a half a dozen people to work with you you control it [laughs] ‘cause you’re getting the extra money. I’m getting the extra ha’penny an hour. So you know thinking back on it that probably they’d charge on [?] it got ten bob a week extra so you know yeah so I I organised it that the iron framework had to be, go and be hot dipped and galvanised so I sort of got that organised. The outer panels were going to be vitreous enamelled but we didn’t have a plant in those days we had to send it out to get it vitreoused [?] so the bits that had to go you got done in the hopes that when they come back all the in-house bits, the pans in stainless steel and the tops and that and the bits and pieces you were making you kept it going and it all ended up, yeah.
CB: So you spent the rest of your working life with that company did you?
RB: No. No I well we couldn’t get a house, you know. We were, we were in the mother in laws front room and then we managed to get two rooms and there was no chance of getting a place in London, I mean and Bartlett’s were in the same line but they, they were moving from Bell Steet because they thought they were going to be pulled down for the Harrow Road Flyover and they were having a place built out here so I applied for a job there and got it.
CB: In Aylesbury.
RB: No Hemel.
CB: In Hemel.
RB: Hemel, yeah, yeah and in fact we got a house and were down here before the factory. We had to travel up every day you know to, the next job I got when I was at Benham’s they got the contract for the ventilation for the House of Lords and the Commons what had been bombed during the war and they were used to galvanised and aluminium but underneath the fancy plasterwork they wanted stainless steel because they didn’t want it to rot and after all the cost of all the plasterwork so I got the job of the stainless steel because it all had to be welded and I could weld stainless steel when it was all curves and that. Yeah.
CB: So you know the House of Commons backwards.
RB: No. No, I didn’t, I didn’t go up there at all. I just made it and it all fitted so I didn’t have to go up there. Yeah. I got, I got in with the, the gang that places in London, the restaurants and that hadn’t been, hadn’t had any building work done on them during the war and we went to places like Derry and Toms to, to update their service counters. We used to, at this time we were working eight to eight because we were busy and we used to go up there Friday dinnertime and the counters were red hot. The counters in the pre-war used to be galvanised pipes going back with steam going through them and they would be red hot and we’d start stripping down from as soon as they’d finished serving dinnertime and we’d carry on stripping down and the stainless steel tops and that in the early days there wasn’t welding on stainless steel. It was riveting and various means and er but we used to put that on the lorry which used to go back to the works. We used to go home and then go in at 8 o’clock on Saturday morning. Our outside fitters used to be pulling out the pipes because at this time copper pipes were going in to replace the galvanised which were some had like rusted and that you know so we used to go in to the works and replace the tops and anything that needed to be. Sometime during Saturday night we’d load it on to the wagon and we’d go back and we’d go straight in and we’d start putting it up but there was no break because you didn’t know what snags you were going to come. Until it was finished you just kept so you worked from Saturday morning all the way through Saturday night round and it usually used to be sometime Sunday afternoon that used to get finished and you’d say ‘right we think we’re there’ you know, we ‘ave to, we used to have to make sure there were no leaks or nothing so there wasn’t too many of them but there was one. Barclays bank had a terrific long counter and it was decided that it was hopeless to try and do it all in one weekend so we did it in three weekends all running on so for four weekends I didn’t have a weekend off. I was out working eight till eight. Luckily it was, it was during the summer so I wasn’t at evening school. My son was born and I daren’t, my wife went into hospital. I daren’t say I’m not going because you were in that gang and if you didn’t go you were frightened that they wouldn’t have you next time you know but er
CB: When were you married?
RB: 1950.
CB: And how old are, well who are your children?
RB: Roger.
CB: Yeah and how old is he?
RB: He’s about sixty —
CB: No. He was born when?
RB: Er ’52.
CB: 19, and the next one?
RB: Peter ’53.
CB: Yep.
RB: Trevor ’56.
CB: Yeah.
RB: Andrew about ’59, I think.
CB: And then you adopted.
RB: Yeah.
CB: Who? What’s her name?
RB: Elizabeth.
CB: And how old is she? When was she born?
RB: About ‘69 I think.
CB: Right. So you needed to get over the others a bit before you took her on [laughs]
RB: Yeah. Well [laughs] Roger was working, you know.
CB: Oh was he?
RB: Bringing money in.
CB: Yeah. Right. Ok. We’ve done amazingly well. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Roy Briggs
Description
An account of the resource
Roy Briggs was born in Battersea, London. After leaving school he undertook an engineering apprenticeship with Benham and Sons, producing equipment for the war. He describes his life during the Blitz. When he joined the Royal Air Force he trained as a wireless operator and served at RAF Fiskerton. He was on operations to Plauen, Cuxhaven and Potsdam. He also took part in Operation Manna and Operation Exodus as well as Cook’s tours over Germany. Until he was demobilised in 1947, he served at RAF Upwood. After the war he returned to a career in engineering.
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2016-01-28
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Janet McGreevy
Format
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01:58:03 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABriggsR160128
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Germany
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany--Plauen
Germany--Cuxhaven
Germany--Berlin
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
30 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
air sea rescue
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of Helgoland (18 April 1945)
Cook’s tour
demobilisation
Dominie
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Initial Training Wing
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Hixon
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Madley
RAF Swinderby
RAF Upwood
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/3326/PAdamsHG1704.1.jpg
980d8be504d2da9355ce447405cd8c1f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/3326/AAdamsHG170215.1.mp3
041f97f2eedf07da91f07fc45cf06065
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Adams, Herbert
Herbert Adams
H Adams
Herbert G Adams
Description
An account of the resource
88 items. Collection concerns Herbert George Adams DFC, Legion d'Honour (b. 1924, 424509 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, photographs of people and places, several memoirs about his training and bombing operations, letters to his family, his flying logbook and notes on navigation.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Herbert Adams and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Adams, HG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
RG: This is an interview with Herbert Adams for the International Bomber Command Centre on Wednesday the 15th of February 2017 at his home in Kooringal, Wagga, New South Wales, Australia.
LD: The name of the interviewers.
RG: Interviewers are Rob Gray and Lucie Davison.
LD: Alright. All good. Ok.
RG: Off you go.
LD: So, you were born near Gulgong.
HA: That’s right.
LD: New South Wales.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Were you born in town or on a farm? Or where?
HA: No.
LD: What kind of area did you grow up in?
HA: My father had a stock and station agency and carrying business in Birriwa.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Very small. You wouldn’t see it now if you went through it [laughs] but it was a prosperous little district. I went to primary school there. One teacher school.
LD: And did you work there or did you leave?
HA: No.
LD: Leave home to go to work before you signed up?
HA: When I was old enough I went to high school at Mudgee for five years — where I boarded. And in 1938 dad sold the agency and bought a farm at Mendooran.
LD: Oh yes.
HA: And that’s where I reckoned I lived for a while because after I came back from the war they were still on the farm. And in fact, they sold the farm at the end of the 1946 drought and moved into town. And my brother and I took up share farming at Mendooran.
LD: Right.
RG: That town being Mudgee or —? That town being Mudgee or —?
HA: Not Mudgee. It was Mendooran, sort of east of Dubbo. South of Coonabarabran.
RG: Right. Ok. Yeah.
HA: We did that for three years and then I took on carrying for about a year and a half. Carting cement from Kandos to Sydney.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then I bought a sports store in Mudgee.
LD: Oh right.
RG: Ok.
HA: Where I strung tennis rackets and fixed cricket bats, sold toys and stuff like that for seven or eight years. Got married and had three kids there. Didn’t know what to do with myself when I sold the sports store so I went to teacher’s college in Sydney for a year.
LD: Oh. Wow.
RG: Ok.
HA: Boarded with me sister. Left my family at Mudgee and got appointed to Mudgee to teach.
LD: Well that was handy wasn’t it?
HA: Well [laughs] we were asked to give preferences of where we wanted to teach and I said ‘Mudgee. Mudgee. Mudgee.’ And they said, ‘Well you’re married and an ex-serviceman and you live there. If necessary we’ll move someone.’ Which they did.
LD: Oh.
RG: Oh. yeah. Very good.
HA: They moved a first year out. A young fella.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Our From Mudgee to Muswellbrook or Maitland or somewhere over there.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I taught junior maths and, senior and junior biology for five years.
RG: Right. Ok.
HA: At the same time, I did a degree from Armidale by correspondence.
RG: A degree in —?
HA: Just a BA degree with a major in maths and education. Tried to get a science degree out of them but they wouldn’t agree to an external student.
RG: Oh for science.
HA: Getting a science degree even though I could have had more science units.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Than what they could provide from Armidale.
RG: It’s odd isn’t it? Perhaps it required laboratory work or something at Armidale or something like that.
HA: I don’t know, just one of those regulations.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Regulations you can’t undo.
RG: Yeah. I was going to say with your service background to put down Mudgee, Mudgee Mudgee you were liable to be sent to Coonabarabran or somewhere. Anyway.
HA: Yeah. So, I taught at Mudgee there for five years and then I resigned and joined the air force a second time. Came to Wagga.
RG: Oh. Ok.
LD: Oh right.
HA: As an education officer out here at Forest Hill.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Oh excellent.
HA: Which I did for just on three years.
RG: What were you teaching in the air force?
HA: First two years — adult trainees.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It was basic maths, physics and [Electrical] tech.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In the second year I was teaching fellas who didn’t want to be instructors to be instructors [laughs]
RG: Yeah. I was one of those. Yeah.
HA: It was an experience.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I learnt more about teaching in that year than I did at teacher college. For sure.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And then —
LD: That must have been most interesting. Going back into the air force again after all that time.
HA: It was, yeah, because I was straight away a flight lieutenant.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I did Anzac Day addresses and things like that.
RG: When was that? When did you go back into the air force?
HA: ’65 ‘66. ’67.
RG: Right. So, twenty years after you left.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That would have been fascinating.
RG: Have we got — sorry. Have we got Bert’s date of birth? Anywhere?
LD: Oh. No. What’s your date of birth, Bert?
HA: 23rd of the 2nd ’24.
LD: Ok.
HA: So, I’ll be ninety three next week.
LD: Wow. So, did you work before joining the air force the first time?
HA: Yes. I worked in Sydney for a year and a half. The local government department in Bridge Street.
LD: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Didn’t like it much. Didn’t get much money.
RG: This was as a clerk or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Junior clerk. And when they brought in compulsory service for the army I was very keen to get in because six shillings a day was big money.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Like, I was paying board in Sydney and train fares and had nothing left. I couldn’t even play hockey because I didn’t have enough money to go and play hockey every weekend.
RG: Right. Yeah. So that, what year was that that you —?
HA: 1941 and 1942.
RG: So, so you were called up in —
HA: ’42.
RG: ’42.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, you were called up in to the army initially.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Where did you go to?
HA: Went to Dubbo and did the infantry training for a month and then was invited, if you could drive a truck, to go to Moorebank near Liverpool and do a motor-school for a month.
RG: Right.
HA: A lot of stuff with Bren gun carriers.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And internal, whatever you call it. A written exam at the end of it. We had lectures at night and that sort of thing. Some of the fellas could barely read and write and they were in the army. I’d finished High School with good passes.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: I came top of the course.
LD: Yeah.
HA: I was invited to go to Sydney Tech College for six months and come out as a warrant officer instructor.
RG: Right.
HA: At aged eighteen.
RG: Ok. That was advanced promotion.
HA: I thought about it very seriously.
RG: You would have done. We’re talking about six shillings being good money.
HA: Anyway, I was already on the reserve for aircrew so when that came up I got out of the army.
LD: Oh right.
RG: So, did you volunteer for the reserve for the aircrew? Did you do that before you joined up? Or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: As a matter of fact, when Air Training Corps first formed, late in 1941 I think it was.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I was one of the first in.
RG: Right.
HA: And that was supposed to get you a month or two precedence on the, on the waiting list. There was a big waiting list for aircrew.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Eight months. Something like that.
RG: So did you do — we’ve read Andy, sorry, Adrian Child, sorry Ray child — Charlwood sorry.
HA: I’ve read two of his books.
RG: Yeah. And his way, he did it he came in through the ATS got assessed, got accepted, sent home and then came back later and did some training and then got sent home again and then went and did his specialist — his navigator’s training was it? Did something similar happen to you? Did you like get accepted and sent home again?
HA: No. Air Training Corps was only part time stuff up at Ashfield. Never got any uniform.
RG: Oh. This is not the ATS —this is Air Training Corps. Yeah. Ok. Sorry. Yeah. Different.
HA: Sorry. Wrong thing.
RG: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of the ATS. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. Where we were up to?
RG: So, Ashfield.
HA: Ashfield.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, which ITS did you end up going to?
HA: Bradfield.
LD: Oh right.
HA: Number 2.
LD: Oh my God. That’s where Ken was.
RG: That’s where Ken was. Yeah.
LD: I have a relative who was there.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Ken Glover.
HA: I’ve got an idea as I can remember that name. I was in 32 course for a start.
LD: I’m not sure what course he was in.
RG: No. He —
LD: I haven’t been able to find that out.
RG: He became a rear gunner. He was in 463. And he was killed on Christmas Eve ‘43 over Berlin.
LD: He started out in 207 Squadron.
RG: Yeah. He started out in 207 RAF.
HA: Yeah. He was a bit earlier at Bradfield than me if he was on Berlin raids.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. He left [pause] he left Australia like January ’42.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: ‘43. He was killed at the end of ’43.
LD: Oh, I’m getting mixed up.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
HA: Yeah. There may have been another Glover that I met somewhere along the way.
RG: I’m sure there were scads of them really. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: I actually had a time. I got the mumps while I was there and went out to Prince Henry Hospital. Came back and I found myself in 33 course. And then they said, ‘They need more fellas at the training places. We’re going to do a rushed course so that you can go out with 32 course again.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: ‘Providing you’re quick enough at Morse.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: And because I’d been in the Air Training Corps I was fast enough at Morse.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: So, I ended up with 32 course at Bradfield. And then came to Cootamundra.
LD: Yes.
HA: 1 AOS. I didn’t even get inside the gate. We were throwing kit bags up on to a truck and I collapsed and found myself in hospital.
RG: As a result of the mumps?
HA: Woke up the next day with terrible trouble with appendicitis.
RG: Oh, ok. Yeah.
HA: I was delirious for a few days and a bit lucky to survive I think because penicillin was, luckily, available.
LD: Yeah.
HA: In those days.
RG: Yeah. And only just available too. Yeah.
LD: Yes.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And so, I was in the hospital for a month with a hole with a rubber tube gushing out rubbish. Finally sent home, I think for Christmas, still with a hole in my belly. And —
RG: So, this is Christmas ‘41
HA: ‘42
RG: ‘42.
HA: ‘42. Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And they said, ‘By the way you will have to come back to hospital next year and have your appendix out.’
LD: What?
RG: They hadn’t done it.
HA: They didn’t take it out. All they’d done was drain all the muck out of it to treat it.
LD: Oh of course. They needed to drain everything ‘cause if they tried to operate with —
RG: The poison would have got into the bloodstream. Yeah.
LD: Yes. Yes.
RG: Lucie is an ex-nurse so.
HA: Yeah.
HA: My wife’s an ex-nurse too.
LD: We’re good people [laughs]
HA: So, I came out of hospital and did some time with 35 course and helped in the sick quarters for a while.
RG: This is filling in time before the next observers course.
HA: Yeah. Then I came down to Wagga.
RG: So, you didn’t actually get to Cootamundra at all. You were posted there but didn’t get there.
HA: Oh yes. When I come out of hospital I was put on to 35 course.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I went to lectures and did one flight with them. And then they said but you’ve got to go and get your appendix out so I came to the RAAF hospital out here at Forest Hill which hadn’t long been opened and had my appendix out. And went back and fooled around until 38 course started.
LD: [laughs] They must have been wondering if they were ever going to get rid of you.
RG: Yeah. So instead of three months it was nine months.
LD: Oh right.
HA: At Cootamundra.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Mind you that kept you out of the worst of it.
HA: It may have kept me out of going to the islands or somewhere like that, you know.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
RG: Or the Battle of Berlin as well. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Anyway —
LD: Did you end up doing any of your training overseas or was it all done in Australia?
HA: Up to the wing stage — in Australia.
LD: Right.
HA: I did bomb aiming and gunnery at Evans Head for two months and then astro nav at Parkes for a month. And then after a bit of leave we got on a boat and went to San Francisco.
LD: Do you remember the name of the ship?
HA: The Mount Vernon. I think.
LD: Ok. Yeah. Did you go via New Zealand?
HA: No. Non-stop.
LD: Oh. Ok.
HA: And we got our sea legs I think because it was calm for the first week or so and then there was a big storm.
LD: Yeah.
HA: There were logs floating around in San Francisco harbour.
LD: Right.
RG: Did you leave from Sydney or Melbourne?
HA: From Sydney.
RG: Sydney. Yeah. By the way when you said you did one flight with 38 course.
HA: 35.
RG: 35. What sort of aircraft?
HA: Ansons.
RG: Ansons. Yeah. Ok.
HA: It was Fairey Battles at Evans Head and it was Ansons again at Parkes.
RG: Right. Yeah.
HA: Astro.
RG: Yeah.
LD: So were you happy to be a navigator or would you have preferred some other role? Because you said you did the gunnery course as well. Did you have any choice in this or —
HA: While we were at Bradfield park they asked us towards the end of the business which you’d like to be and nearly everybody wanted to be a pilot of course. The day that they did the coordination test I was at the dentist and so I missed that.
RG: [laughs] You had bad medical trouble there didn’t you [laughs]
HA: I had a lot of trouble with my teeth.
RG: Oh dear.
HA: And the test was to sit in a seat with rudder pedals and a joystick with a screen where somebody made a dot move around the screen at random and you had to chase it with your feet.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I knew I’d made a terrible mess of it. Partly because when I was a kid I had a flivver which you steered with your feet. If you wanted to go to the right you did that which is just the opposite.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: To what you want to do in an aeroplane.
RG: Sorry a flivver.
HA: A flivver.
RG: What’s a flivver? What —
HA: Well it had a handle on it like the trikes that they had on the railway.
RG: The ones that you cranked. Yes.
HA: Yes.
RG: Oh ok. I didn’t know they were called flivvers.
HA: Yeah. Anyway, so, I knew I made a mess of it so when they came to ask me what I wanted to do I said navigator. They said, ‘Why don’t you want to be a pilot?’ And I said, ‘Well I made a mess of the coordination test and I’m pretty good at maths and stuff.’ I didn’t tell them that a lot of fellas say, ‘I want to be a pilot,’ and they say, ‘Oh well. You can be a rear gunner.’
RG: Yeah. [laughs] Ok.
LD: Yes.
HA: So, I got in first.
RG: That was a smart move.
LD: Yes. Yeah. They were getting to be short of rear gunners, weren’t they? Very sadly.
HA: So, we got on a, oh there was only six hundred of us on the ship. Most of the people were American servicemen who were either ill or wounded. Coming back from the Pacific.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And so, when we got to San Francisco they said, ‘There’s sixty of you navigators,’ or observers as we were then. We had an O wing, ‘Who thought you were going to Canada to do a six months reconnaissance course. That’s been scrubbed. You are now going across to Britain for Bomber Command.’ So, we had to —
RG: Oh. So you might have ended up doing reconnaissance flights in Mosquitos, I presume. Or something of that nature.
HA: Probably in Liberators across the Atlantic I would think.
RG: Oh ok. Ok.
LD: Right.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Anyhow.
RG: Yeah.
HA: That was scrubbed and we got on a troop train and went across America to New York and got on a ship called the Isle de France.
RG: Ah yes. Famous vessel.
HA: On Christmas Eve.
RG: That’s Christmas Eve forty.
HA: ’43.
RG: ‘43 yeah.
LD: Oh right. Yeah.
RG: That was the night Ken was killed.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: It got as far as the Statue of Liberty and broke down.
RG: [laughs] That was the French.
HA: And we thought thank goodness because we were right down below the waterline at the stern with the sides coming down like that.
RG: Oh yes. Yeah.
HA: And had to climb through round portholes all around.
RG: Hatches. Yeah.
HA: Vertical ladders to get up to the next deck.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Anyhow, they kept us there overnight. They gave us some sandwiches I think and then the next morning they said, ‘You can wait until we give you some more sandwiches and some pay. Or you can do without that. Go straight into New York where there’s likely to be people taking you home for Christmas dinner.’
LD: Well there’s an option isn’t there?
HA: So, three of us went out to a very nice double decker house in Mount Vernon for lunch. We thought Christmas lunch, you know. Christmas lunch came time and there were plenty of little nibbles and plenty of drinks. This went on all the whole afternoon until about 7 o’clock at night and they brought out the turkey. Us three all said, ‘Well yes, we wouldn’t mind a second helping,’ [laughs]. He took us to his factory the next day. He had a factory that made, amongst other things, handkerchiefs. He gave us some handkerchiefs each.
RG: You don’t happen to remember the family name by any chance, do you? A big ask I know but —
HA: Richie, I think. Richie.
RG: Richie. Ok.
HA: And took us to his club. We offered to buy a drink after he’d bought us one. Everything’s done with chips.
RG: So, you can’t possibly. That’s a polite way to do it isn’t it?
HA: Took us back to our camp at Fort McDowell or Fort Slocum or something. I’ve forgotten the name and we had a few more days in New York. Went to Madison Square Garden and saw an ice hockey match for the first time.
LD: Oh wow.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Went to Jack Dempsey’s Spaghetti Bar.
RG: Ok. Yes. Sorry. Sorry Bert, I was just going to say, I know you said it was a camp. Fort Slocum or wherever it was. Was that like a transit camp for Commonwealth personnel or was it a US army camp or —?
HA: I can’t remember.
RG: Ok.
HA: I can’t remember. It seemed to be a useful sort of a camp.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Could have been [unclear] or that sort of thing.
RG: Yeah.
LD: I have read that Australian servicemen in the States, because there were a lot of people like you who were, you know, kind of in between places who ended up staying there for a couple of weeks or something were very welcome and, you know, never had to buy a drink and so on. Is that — is that your experience?
HA: They were very generous. The Americans.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. We didn’t buy a drink the time that we were with him of course. I can’t remember other Americans shouting us drinks while we were in New York but in Denver one day, we had a couple of hours in Denver and a fellow came up to us and said, ‘You’ve strange uniforms.’ We had Australia across here. ‘I didn’t know Austria was on our side.’ [laughs]
RG: [laughs] Did you point out that Hitler was an Austrian [laughs] Anyway, yeah.
HA: So, we talked to him a bit about Australia then and [pause]
LD: I have, I’ve also read about the Australians being mistaken for German POWs. Did you, did you have that experience?
HA: I think that could happen. I got mistaken for a policeman a couple of times in London. In the blue uniform.
RG: The blue uniform, yeah. Of course.
LD: Oh of course. The darker blue.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: And because we’d been to London a few times and used the Underground I knew my way around London fairly well as far as the Underground was concerned. So if somebody said, ‘How do I get to —,’ such and such. I was able to say, ‘That way.’ [laughs] Didn’t let on I wasn’t a policeman.
LD: Fair enough.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, did you have a safe trip across to Britain after all that. Did you have any problems?
HA: No. No. On New Year’s Eve we boarded the Queen Elizabeth.
LD: Oh. Right.
HA: And it had, it had been partly furnished for passengers before the war but it hadn’t been finished.
RG: No.
HA: There were parts of it were still open hold.
RG: Yeah.
HA: With stacks of —
RG: She came straight from the shipyard. Straight in as a troopship. Yeah.
HA: We got a cabin and there was —
LD: Lucky you.
HA: Eighteen of us, I think, in a cabin, with a little toilet corner in it. Most everywhere there was six feet on a wall with three bunks.
RG: Three bunks. Yeah.
LD: Ah yes.
HA: There were six walls altogether including the corner of it.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: We had a great time there. Used to sit on the floor and play cards.
LD: Did you have to — did you have to act as lookouts on the Queen Elizabeth?
HA: No.
LD: Right.
HA: No. We did boat drill which was a bit of a hassle because there was over twenty thousand troops on it. Two or three of the top decks that were open to the weather had three bunks up the wall. Bolted on.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Americans took twelve hours on, twelve hours off on those bunks.
RG: Wow.
HA: So they could fit more people in.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I’ve read about the hot-bunking. I didn’t realise it was to that extent.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Two meals a day because it took four hours to feed them all.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: Four hours to clean up and then another one.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: I also read that the meals were more than a bit basic.
HA: They were, they were alright.
RG: This was a British, this was a British ship. Not an American one. Different. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. We had good meals on the boat. On the trains across America too. It was a bit strange. They’d ask for volunteers to go and count the stuff through the corridor sort of thing. I never had to do that. But they’d arrive with a stainless streel tray, plate, with five compartments on it. You’d put meat there and vegetables there, vegetables there, vegetables there, fruit salad there. And then they’d get a ladle and put what we reckoned was plum jam and put it all over the plate [laughs]
LD: Oh.
HA: It may have been chutney I don’t know.
LD: It sounds awful.
RG: You’re right to separate everything and then join it up with — yeah.
LD: So, did you have the Pullman carriages?
HA: Yes.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Yes. A little compartment with enough people for four. And yet they only put three in it because at night time they had a negro porter came in and made up a double bed at the bottom.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And pulled down —
LD: Yeah.
HA: One at the top which I got in. Being wintertime, each morning I’d find icicles hanging down from the ceiling where the fellas underneath would be warm because they were steam heated.
RG: Yeah. Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. So did you get to see snow on that trip as well?
HA: Yes. For the first time. We pulled up in marshalling yards at Chicago for about an hour and a half, I suppose. Nowhere near the platform but there was railway lines forever.
RG: Yeah.
HA: We saw it was snow on the ground so, ‘Oh, we’ll get out and have a snow fight.’ So, we got out and had the snow fight for about five minutes and it was minus thirty.
RG: Yeah. Chicago in the winter.
HA: We got back in again pretty quick.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. No. That’s, that’s my relative’s experience as well. Was seeing the snow for the first time.
HA: Yeah. It was the first time I’d seen snow.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Going across the Atlantic in the Queen Elizabeth after about three days they said, ‘There’s reputed to be a U-boat pack waiting out there somewhere so we’re going to go up near Iceland somewhere and we’re going to go flat out.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, put your warm clothes on.’ We’re not going to — we’re going to turn the heating off and go as fast as we can.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: We met some of the crew in Glasgow. Greenock. They took us for a tour of the ship later and said that they got over forty knots.
RG: Wow.
HA: That night going up.
RG: She was fast. I didn’t realise she was that fast though.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Wow.
LD: So, did you, did you land in Greenock?
HA: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. Ok. Yeah.
RG: Yes, I suppose if you’ve got the threat of U-boats you’ll find the, you’ll find the extra knots.
HA: Yeah, they put all the steam they could get in to it.
LD: So, once you arrived in the UK where did you go to then?
HA: By train to Brighton.
LD: Brighton. Ok. And were you there for long?
HA: I think about three weeks.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: We did a little bit of training. I think the main thing we did was learn the stars of the northern hemisphere.
RG: Oh course. Yeah.
LD: Of course. Absolutely. Yeah.
RG: They didn’t teach you that while you were here?
HA: No. No.
RG: I mean even theoretically. That’s funny. I suppose a lot of you would have ended up in the Pacific theatre so, yeah.
HA: There’s enough to learn one lot at a time.
RG: Yeah. True enough. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. No. I remember the first time I went to Europe, you know, looking up at the sky and going —
RG: It’s all different.
LD: All the bases of my life were gone. It’s quite strange and it would have been even more so for you because that’s —
RG: Your trade.
LD: Yeah . That would have been really interesting for you.
HA: At Brighton there was two big hotels. The Metropole and The Grand that were taken over by the RAAF as a holding centre. And again, when we left to come home. Same place.
LD: Oh right.
RG: They’re both on the seafront aren’t they?
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah. I can remember the Metropole.
HA: When I went back to Europe in ‘94 and took a trip down to Brighton and had a look at them and they’ve dolled them up. They’re both nice looking hotels.
RG: Yeah. They’re both there though. Yeah.
HA: They were very basic then.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And was Brighton all — ‘cause I know Bournemouth had all the razor wire on the beaches and things like that. Was the same sort of protections there in Brighton?
HA: Yes. One of the, I think both of the piers had a hole cut in the middle of them so that they couldn’t —
RG: Couldn’t land on the end.
HA: Get on to one end and come ashore sort of thing.
LD: Were there any air raids or anything while you were there?
HA: Yes. There were air raids while we were there.
LD: Yeah.
HA: For a start we used to go down to the basement and they didn’t seem to do much harm so after that we didn’t bother. We just stayed in our bedroom.
RG: That would have been also around the time of the V1s and V2s.
HA: Yes.
RG: Did you have any experience of those? Or —
HA: Once or twice when I was in London on leave we heard one or two come over and we actually heard one stop one night and thought oh, this is going to be a bang.
RG: Oh dear.
HA: And sure, enough there was a bang not far away.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve heard people, Londoner’s I’ve met, who said that they were far more frightened of the V1s than the V2s because of that. You’d hear. In the buildings you couldn’t see them. You could hear them and when they stopped it was, ‘Where is it going to fall?’
HA: Yeah.
RG: Whereas the V2 was the crash and if you heard the crash — well you were still alive. So that was —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I don’t think there was any V2s ever landed when I was in London. They were frightening.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And I don’t think there was any of the London guns landed in London when I was there either. You’ve heard about the London guns. The V3.
RG: That’s the V3. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I have heard about it. I didn’t know they actually fired on —
HA: Yeah. They fired a few.
RG: Oh ok.
HA: But nowhere near what they wanted to.
RG: No.
HA: They were going to finish Britain off with the V2s and V3s.
RG: Well by that point they were disappearing back away from the French coast weren’t they?
HA: Yeah. That’s right.
RG: Yeah. You’re talking January ‘45.
HA: Yeah. So the London gun got bypassed.
RG: Shuffled back. Yeah. Became a Calais gun or something [laughs] as far as you could reach.
LD: So which OTU did you end up being sent to?
HA: Lichfield.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Before that we went to an AFU At Llandwrog. In North Wales.
RG: Wales.
LD: What was an AFU?
HA: They called it an Advanced Flying Unit.
LD: Oh right. Yeah.
HA: Avro Ansons again. That was mainly to familiarise navigators and bomb aimers I think with map reading in Britain.
LD: Oh right.
HA: Which was altogether different to the Riverina
LD: Just a little [laughs]
RG: [unclear]
LD: Not to mention the stars.
RG: Yeah. And at Lichfield — that was an OTU.
HA: Lichfield it was a fairly popular OTU where we crewed up and —
LD: Yeah.
HA: Flew Wellingtons.
LD: Right.
RG: For training.
HA: For training.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So how did they crew you guys up? It seems to have been a little different in different places.
HA: They gave us two days to hang around in the hangar and hang around in the mess drinking beer and find ourselves a crew.
LD: Right.
RG: Right. But that was a five man crew wasn’t it?
HA: Six.
RG: Six. In a Wellington.
HA: Six I think.
RG: Six. Yeah. Ok.
HA: Yeah. Even though Wellingtons only had five in the crew.
RG: Yeah.
HA: You crewed up with six and the rear gunner and the mid-upper gunner took turns in the rear turret to practice.
RG: Oh ok.
LD: Oh right. Ok. Yeah.
RG: But you’re still one down from a Lancaster though ‘cause that was seven.
HA: Yeah. No engineer.
RG: No engineer. Right.
HA: So, Syd Payne and I who’d done our training in Australia together as observers and he had been a — started off as a pilot. Did Tiger Moths at Narromine and got scrubbed on Wirraways at Uranquinty I think. So, he looked like a valuable bloke to have in a crew. Somebody who could fly.
RG: Fly. Yes. Of course.
HA: And we were both navigator — bomb aimer, sort of thing and he trained.
RG: Tossed a coin to see who did what.
HA: He trained as a bomb aimer just across Anglesey from where Llandwrog was. So, we’re looking around for a pilot.
RG: Sorry. Did you two decide between yourselves who was going to be the bomb aimer and who was going to be the navigator?
HA: Before we’d even got there because he trained as a bomb aimer AFU.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I trained as a navigator AFU.
RG: Yes. Oh of course. That was before Lichfield yes. Of course. Yeah.
HA: Before Lichfield.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: So we got together and we found a pilot with a wireless op attached. And they were both Queenslanders. Both same age as us. All twenty years old. And after looking at a few others, sort of thing, I think the pilot decided that, yes, we would do him sort of thing and so we were thinking about a rear gunner. And a pair of gunners. Looking around and then a pair of gunners came and found us [emphasis] They turned out to be fellas who came first and second in their gunnery course.
RG: Nice.
HA: So, they, they had the pick of the mob sort of thing. So they picked us luckily. We got on well with them so —
RG: Both Australians. So —
HA: Yes. All Australians.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The rear gunner was from Sydney. In fact, we had a connection. I don’t know whether he’d married already a girl that I knew in Mudgee.
RG: Oh. Ok.
HA: Or married her after.
RG: After the war.
HA: One or the other. And the other fella was a farm worker from Western Australia who was elderly. He was twenty five.
RG: Oh gosh.
LD: Oh. Poor old man. You’d have to help him on with a stick.
HA: And they were both teetotallers.
RG: Oh. Ok. Ok. Maybe that’s why they came first and second in their gunnery course.
HA: And they were good shots. The bloke from Western Australia had done a bit of clay pigeon shooting, well live pigeon shooting against kangaroos and stuff.
RG: Yeah.
HA: You know. So, he knew about leading.
RG: Yeah. And they used clay pigeons to the train the gunners. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. So, they were good shots by the time we got together and of course we did a lot more training. One of the things we did at Lichfield in our training was do a bullseye.
RG: Yes.
HA: Several reckoned it counted as an operation. Others reckoned it counted as half an operation. Yeah. They got all the training planes together. Not only from Lichfield but a heap of them and flew up as if you were going to Wilhelmshaven or something like that. Up in the Baltic. When you got nearly there you turned around and came back while the rest of Bomber Command went to Munich or somewhere.
RG: Oh, you were the decoy force.
HA: Diversion decoy. Yeah.
RG: Diversion. Of course. Yeah.
LD: This is the first time I’ve actually been able to confirm what a command bullseye was.
RG: Yeah. Lucie’s relative, Ken mentions in his logbook about a command bullseye but they did these over London.
LD: But they did these over London. Yes.
RG: But and he just says command bullseye and we’ve asked the other veterans and none of them have known what it was. They didn’t do it. So —
LD: I’ve only found one reference to it in the research.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That’s really good. I’m really pleased [laughs]
HA: We did another one when we were on Stirlings. We did another bullseye.
RG: Oh that was still on Wellingtons wasn’t it?
HA: This was still on Wellingtons. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. And then you went over to Stirlings did you?
HA: Yes. Our next move after Lichfield was Swinderby.
RG: Oh yes.
HA: Near Lincoln. And I was on Stirlings.
RG: Yeah. Where you found an engineer at that point.
HA: Yeah. That’s where we got our engineer.
RG: Was he appointed or did you find him?
HA: He was just appointed to us and he was a man of forty four.
RG: Wow.
LD: Really.
HA: He’d been a policeman for years.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In Birmingham and Coventry.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And those sorts of places.
RG: So he was RAF.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: I didn’t realise.
HA: He was born in Scotland. His parents lived in Ireland. When we went on leave he had to change in to civvies to go over to Ireland.
RG: To go to Ireland [laughs]
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yes.
LD: So, did you do anything other than kind of like a spoof raid on the bullseye. Did you drop leaflets?
HA: No.
LD: Or anything like that?
HA: No. We just stayed over the sea all the time.
LD: Right. Ok.
RG: Ok.
HA: And the other one we did in the Stirlings I think we only went about as far as the Dutch coast. It was quite a short trip compared with the one that went nearly to Wilhelmshaven.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
RG: So how long were you on Stirlings for? And again, this is just training isn’t it? On the Stirlings.
HA: Training. Yeah. We trained there for about a month I think.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was mainly circuits and bumps and that sort of thing for the pilot more than —
RG: Get used to the four engines.
HA: Probably did about a couple of cross country’s and that sort of thing.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Some bombing. Fighter affiliation for the gunners.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: So, the bullseyes. Were they both at night?
HA: Yes.
LD: Yeah. So that would have been training for you as a navigator as well wouldn’t it?
HA: Oh yeah.
LD: Sort of doing the real thing. Yeah.
HA: Oh yeah. Had to find our way there and back. But when we got to Lichfield I think, on OTU, on the Wellingtons we first had Gee.
LD: Yes.
HA: Which was a tremendous help for navigators. You could get accurate fixes whenever you wanted them.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Up as far as the enemy frontier sort of thing. They jammed it after that. If we could get an hour or two when we were on an operations of good fixes before Gee gave up. And they also had APIs which you don’t seem to be in the literature much. Air Position Indicators.
RG: No.
HA: They were the best thing going for —
RG: How did that work?
HA: When we were at Cootamundra or AFU we were expected to keep a manual air plot. Every change of direction or speed or height made a difference to the air plot each time.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Then if you found a fix you could find a wind.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And that depended on the pilot sticking to the course that he was told to be on.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The speed he was told to be on and the height he was supposed —
RG: So pilot’s actually —
LD: Pilots don’t always do that.
HA: Navigation was very much a — perhaps. But with API they had a distance reading compass down the back that was half gyro and half magnetic.
RG: Yeah. Gyro magnetic compass. I know those. Yeah.
HA: And that came via the nav table through a control called a Variation Setting Control so you could set the variation on that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And change it as you went across Europe.
RG: Yeah.
HA: From 11 around Lincoln to about 3 at Berlin or something like that.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: And deviations.
RG: Yeah.
HA: They’d swing the compass every now and again on the ground. Give you a deviation card.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Generally only one or two degrees.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So the true directions would come out on the repeater compasses for the navigator and the pilot.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And the bomb aimer.
LD: Right.
HA: And the API had true directions going to it and then from the air speed indicator which didn’t give true airspeed by any means when you, as you went higher. The indicated air speed might be a hundred and sixty mile an hour and the true air speed be two hundred miles an hour.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Thinner air. That’s going to —
HA: Thinner air. So that was accounted for as well.
RG: Wow. That’s —
HA: So the API had got true directions and true speed.
RG: Yeah. And altitude to make that variation. Yeah.
HA: Just had two knobs on it.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Two little windows.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And the normal thing we did for a start was to set the latitude and longitude of the airfield and as you flew along any time you wanted to find out where your air position was it was there. You just wrote it down. Latitude and longitude. Popped it down on your chart.
RG: And that was quite accurate.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Wow. Ok. So that were, that were in Lancs and Stirlings obviously. And Wellingtons.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Ok. So was this must have been, was this something that sort of came along later in the war? Do you know?
HA: I think it probably came in in late ’43.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I would imagine.
RG: Ok. Yeah. You’re right. I haven’t come across that either, but, yeah.
LD: Did you get — because from what I’ve read there was a lot of technology happening there around all sorts of things but, you know, including navigation.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Did you find there was a lot of changes in the equipment that you used and were you actually trained in those changes?
HA: Yes.
LD: Or did you just kind of wake up one morning and get on the aircraft and find it was new.
HA: We had — Lancasters were fitted with H2S when we got to Waddington.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And we used them in training on [pause] between — between the Stirlings and going in to the squadron we did a Lanc Finishing School. I think that’s where we first saw H2S on the planes.
RG: Yeah.
HA: All the planes had H2S at Waddington. And we used them for training exercises but we were forbidden to use them on operations because the Germans could home in on them with their fighters.
RG: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
HA: And so the only time we ever used H2S over Germany was on a daylight trip to Wilhelmshaven when they expected to have a lot of cloud over the target and so for the first time we ever got directions like this — ‘If you can’t see the target you can use H2S or you can drop your bombs when you see another one drop their bombs.’ [laughs]
RG: [laughs] Gosh.
LD: That’s precision bombing.
RG: Yeah.
LD: So you’re all sitting there going can any of us see the target? Who’s going to drop a bomb first?
HA: In our training with H2S the bomb aimer used to come and sit alongside the navigator. Both fiddled with H2S and so he came up and we were deliberating about where we were going to aim at sort of thing and we finally said, ‘Oh well, that’ll do.’ When we pressed the bombing tit two other Lancs dropped theirs.
RG: [laughs] Not sort of what you’d expect is it?
HA: We don’t know what harm we did.
LD: Might have killed a couple of sheep.
HA: Anyway, that was H2S. Gee didn’t change except as, as the allies crept up through France and so forth.
RG: Went further out.
HA: They opened up two more Gee chains besides the ones that were based in England.
RG: Yeah.
HA: One was called the Reims. One was called the Ruhr. And the other thing was after about two months, I think, Loran was fitted to the Lancs.
LD: Sorry. What was that?
RG: Loran.
HA: L O R A N long range air navigation.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Which related to Gee in that it measured time differences between the emitter and the plane. And that chart with curved lines in different colours. Same as Gee. But apparently it was only effective at night time because instead of getting direct radio signals they were bounced off the ionosphere at night time.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It had an extremely long range. Covered all of Europe. And when they came out to the Pacific it covered all the Pacific area.
RG: Really important in the Pacific. Yeah.
HA: So we trained with Loran while we were on the squadron and actually used it about halfway through our tour. Used Loran when Gee ran out.
RG: But was it as accurate as Gee?
HA: Not as accurate.
RG: No.
HA: And a bit more cumbersome to use because you tuned into one station and got one partition line at a time and then you had to tune into a second one.
RG: Get the second position line.
HA: Get the different and then transfer further along.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Parallel ruler and muck around. So it was a bit slower. I think it was accurate enough. Good enough to find the target anyway.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Were you mostly on, at 467, on daylight operations at that point or still mostly night time? Night operations?
HA: We got back to mostly back to night time by that time. This was September when we started and D-day was back in June.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Sorry that was September. What year?
HA: ‘44.
LD: Thank you. Just to –
HA: We finished in January ’45.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: So we did a few daylight trips. The first and third ones were fairly big raids on le Havre and Boulogne in daylight. Big armies.
RG: Army support. Yeah.
HA: In both those places and they had side-tracked or bypassed them with the Canadians and British armies.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And finally, they decided it was about time they cleaned them out, sort of thing. So dropped a lot of bombs on various parts.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It wasn’t area bombing like there was on towns in Britain, in Germany. It was specific things.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Like oil dumps, E-boat pens. Stuff like this.
RG: Transport links and stuff like that. Yeah. Tactical. More tactical.
HA: Tactical stuff.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: They didn’t want to kill too many Frenchmen.
RG: No. No. Exactly.
LD: No. One doesn’t.
HA: So, we did that in daylight.
LD: That’s right.
RG: So that was on your first and third trip.
HA: First and third trips. Yeah.
LD: How many ops did you complete?
HA: Twenty nine.
LD: That’s a good number.
HA: Pardon?
LD: That’s a very good number.
HA: Yeah. Well I think the bullseyes might have counted to make it thirty.
RG: I was going to say, Bert, it varied over time we noticed that the number of ops you had to do to do a, you know, to do a tour.
HA: A tour varied.
RG: Yeah. In your period it was how many?
HA: Thirty to finish.
RG: It was thirty still. Yeah. Ok.
HA: When we started it was thirty six because it had been made thirty six around D-day.
RG: Ok.
HA: With so many short trips.
RG: Of course. Yeah. Yes.
HA: And then a month or two after D-day they broke it back to thirty three.
RG: ‘Cause you were going back on the raids on Germany then.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then after we’d done about fifteen or twenty trips or something like that they said you only have to do thirty from now on.
RG: That was a bit of a relief.
HA: Yeah. But there was some longer trips coming up.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: We did one long trip to Trondheim in Norway.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Wow.
HA: Almost eleven hours.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And they put a smokescreen over the target and so the master bomber said, ‘Well, you can take your bombs home.’ So we did almost eleven hours with a full bomb load.
RG: Wow.
LD: Did that count as an op for you?
HA: That counted as an op. Yeah.
LD: Because you didn’t drop any bombs.
HA: You’d only to go to the target and be on the op. Yeah. We did a couple of —
RG: You said you brought the bombs home.
LD: Yeah.
RG: You didn’t land with them did you?
LD: Yes. That’s what I was thinking.
HA: Yeah.
RG: You did.
LD: Wow.
RG: I thought the standard practice was to ditch them in the sea if you were —
HA: Only if you had too much weight.
RG: So —
HA: I think earlier in the war they might have ditched them but we brought our bombs back three times I think.
RG: Ok.
LD: Oh my goodness.
RG: So when you say too much weight you had too much fuel still in and there was like a maximum weight that a Lanc could land with.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Oh. I see.
LD: Well, you wouldn’t have had much fuel left after a trip to Norway. Would you?
RG: No. That’s right. It would have been light enough I suppose.
HA: I wrote a bit about this later one time. We were the only one to get back to Waddington with our bombs on. The others either landed in Scotland or ditched their bombs in the Atlantic.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then got back to Waddington. But we didn’t bother. We came all the way back and had eighty gallons left.
RG: Eighty gallons. Don’t go around the circuit once or twice [laughs]
HA: It’s not really enough to go around again.
RG: No.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Wow. Ok.
LD: It doesn’t kind of sound very safe landing with the bombs but —
RG: No. No.
LD: But obviously you managed it.
HA: Yes. I believe —
LD: And the big one would have only been a cookie in that case wouldn’t it? You wouldn’t have had —
HA: Yeah. I don’t think we had a cookie even then. I think we only had about eight or ten one thousand pounders. I could find out in the logbook.
RG: Yeah for that range you would have only had a small one. You’d need more fuel and less bombs for that range.
HA: They actually, like, we were two squadrons taking off from Waddington. So there would have been about forty planes. As you turned at the end of the runway, on the perimeter track to get on to the runway they had a petrol tanker there to top up the tanks.
RG: [laughs] Fair dinkum.
LD: Oh my goodness.
HA: They knew it was going to be touch and go you see.
RG: Wow.
LD: Wow.
RG: That must have been close to one of the longest return — one of the longest return raids of the war surely.
HA: For ordinary squadrons.
RG: Yeah.
HA: But the fellas who did the Tirpitz raids —
RG: Yeah.
HA: They did thirteen, fourteen hour trips.
RG: Yeah. They had modified aircraft though too didn’t they? Yeah.
HA: They threw out the turrets.
RG: Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
LD: Because that’s what I was going to ask with these raids was the crew or the aircraft modified in any way for those, for that long trip.
HA: No. No.
RG: The standard. Still must have come close. I mean there were some squadrons, some raids I believe where they flew across, dropped their bombs in east bloc Poland and then went on and landed at Russian airfields, refuelled and came back out.
HA: Yeah. They did the same with some of the Italians targets early in the war I think.
RG: Yeah. Flew down to North Africa. Yeah. Yeah.
LD: So did you guys know, well no, you didn’t know in advance did you? About where you were going? But how did you feel when you realised you were going to Norway?
HA: We feel pretty happy about it because we thought that’s going to be a safe target.
RG: Yeah.
HA: There’s not going to be anybody shooting at you all the way.
LD: Fair enough.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Actually it was a nasty trip for navigation. There was what they called an occlusion up in the North Sea where a cold front and a warm front got together.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It was raining. And the wind was variable and we were supposed to find our way up there after Gee ran out. For about another two or three hours flying after that. The bomb aimer gave what we thought was a pinpoint crossing the coast of Norway that turned out to be wrong. And he gave another one later on and he thinks it was right. But anyway we finally found the target. Then we had to fly for two or three hours without any aids coming back because it was ten tenths cloud. Still raining.
RG: And you were over the sea the whole way.
HA: When I finally got the first Gee fix we were fifty miles north west of where we should have been.
RG: That’s not bad.
HA: The wind had changed that much.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: In four or five hours.
RG: Yeah. But you’re over the sea almost the whole way too.
HA: Over the sea most of the time.
RG: So if you ditched —
LD: You’ve got no points of reference have you?
RG: No. And if you ditched, you had to ditch you were in deep trouble.
HA: Yeah. Anyhow. We were heading, had a slight headwind at that stage which had been pushing us up that way. We increased the speed a bit because of the headwind and then after about an hour of finding Gee fixes I found the wind had changed to almost the opposite. Anyway, we said, ‘Skipper you can slow the plane down a bit now. We’ve got a bit of a tailwind.’ And so he and I and the engineer did some calculations. We’d already decided we’d land at Lossiemouth or Leuchars or somewhere. In Scotland. But after we did the calculations the skipper said, ‘I think we can give it a go to get back to base because of the tailwind.’ Maybe the other fellas didn’t do that workings. But anyhow we cut it fine.
RG: Yeah. So you started ops with 467 in September.
HA: Yeah.
RG: First and third raid. On your second raid. Where was that to?
HA: Stuttgart. Night raid. In between the skipper did a second dickie to Pforzheim. I forgotten where he went. Somewhere like Stuttgart I think.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then the next night he went.
RG: Went out on a —
HA: Stuttgart on his own with us.
RG: What was your, how did you, what was your experience of the first raid? You know. The first German raid really. First. Stuttgart. How did you —?
HA: No problem much. The navigator stayed in his blackout curtained room with the light on and I seldom went out and looked at the target.
RG: Ok.
HA: So I left it to the rest of them to do all the looking out and so forth. Our gunners, bomb aimer and engineer all were very good at keeping a lookout.
RG: Good lookout. Yeah. I suppose the resistance from fighters and so forth was slowing down a bit by then wasn’t it? It was still there but —
HA: You’ve heard about Schrage musik.
RG: Schrage musik. Yes. Yes.
HA: That was something that took a great toll of bombers.
RG: Bombers. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Right up to the end of the war I think. When we finished our tour. In the next two months Waddington lost both their COs and one of their flight commanders. All experienced fellas on second tours.
RG: Ok.
HA: Sort of thing and, we think, all to night fighters with their upward firing guns.
RG: The guns. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Some of the some of the German aces were reputed to have shot down over a hundred, sort of thing.
RG: There were a few who got — yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was pretty dangerous.
RG: Yes. Yeah.
LD: I have seen — I think it was a Lanc with, there were modifications, not official ones but just ones that were done in particular squadrons with like, an observation point underneath. I remember seeing the ones with like the little round dome underneath.
RG: Yeah. Like an astrodome.
LD: Yes.
RG: But on the bottom of the fuselage.
LD: Yes, but underneath. So, I have read about you know some aircraft that had these unofficial modifications to watch out for Schrage musik. Did you have anything like that in your — ?
HA: No. We weren’t even told about it.
LD: Ah. That’s what I was wondering as well.
HA: You know, I’m sure the authorities knew about it. Probably months, maybe more, before we flew. They didn’t tell us about it. I think it was probably to keep the morale up.
RG: Morale. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: What they did tell us to do was to do banking searches and —
LD: Banking searches?
HA: Banking searches.
LD: Yes.
HA: Like earlier in the war, before Window, the searchlights and ack-ack were mostly radar controlled and so if you flew straight they would drop onto you and so the technique was to —
RG: Swerve.
HA: Just weave. Go a few — half a minute this way.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Half a minute that way. Sort of thing.
RG: So, predictors couldn’t predict in curves.
HA: Window came in and their radar wasn’t able to lock onto planes. The technique was to put up a barrage of flak and in daytime it looked pretty horrible with all these black puffs in the air. They’d hang in the air for a long time so it looked —
RG: Looked worse than it probably was. Yeah.
HA: So anyway, the technique was to straight, go straight. Don’t weave. Get through it as quick as you can. And all the time we were over enemy territory our pilot was quite religious about the banking searches. They could make the plane do that. Without it changing direction.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: He’d say, ‘Down port.’ The gunners would have a good look underneath and say, ‘All clear port.’ Roll it over.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: ‘All clear starboard.’
RG: Ah ok.
HA: We would do that for hours.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: And we never got shot at by a fighter.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A couple or three times a gunner saw a fighter and we started corkscrewing and we weren’t chased on any of those occasions.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The general opinion was that if a German fighter saw you doing a corkscrew they’d give up and look for somebody else.
RG: Someone easier. So, you never actually got attacked by a fighter.
HA: Never. No.
LD: Were you ever hit by flak?
HA: Oh yeah. Lots and lots of times. Sometimes a lot of holes. A couple of daylight lowish level ones we got holes from machine guns from the ground.
RG: Wow. Ok.
HA: Walcheren Island. We bombed Walcheren Island three times. Short daylight raids.
RG: Sorry? Whereabout?
HA: Walcheren Island.
RG: Oh sorry. Yeah.
HA: Scheldt Estuary. The first time this was what I was going to tell you about. 617 Squadron landing with their bombs on. I think they did there. We went. 5 Group sent about a hundred planes to Walcheren Island and the aim was to break the sea wall and flood the island and we did a run at about, I think about six thousand feet or something like that and drop seven bombs in a close stick and come around again and did another seven. In the same place. Hopefully.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And a hundred planes did that and they opened it up, the front of the island. Got a picture in The Sun and the next day, sort of thing, “The RAF floods an island.” Apparently 617 Squadron was standing by with tallboy bombs.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In case.
RG: Just in case you didn’t manage it.
HA: And they brought them home.
RG: Wow.
LD: They brought home Tallboys.
HA: Twelve thousand pounds.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Wow.
RG: I’d be terrified landing with a bloody Tallboy underneath.
HA: Yeah. Well, I don’t know if they brought them home and landed with them or whether they junked them somewhere else, you know but they didn’t need to use them on Walcheren Island.
RG: Actually sorry, one of the first chaps we interviewed — Arthur. He was, he did, he finished his tour in ‘45 and then was posted to an experimental unit experimenting with a blind landing aid which he told us a bit about and he said it was very very effective. He was there when the war ended.
HA: Yeah.
RG: But he, before he left his squadron he went down to the intelligence officer’s hut and nicked some of the photographs that he had taken himself on one of those raids and he gave us the photos and you could see the bombs striking the seawall. That was in Holland though. There was another one trying to break a dyke in Holland but at low level and — yeah. Arthur’s photos. Yeah. I forget what squadron he was with now but —
HA: The next two raids we did on Walcheren Island, they were both daylight, were on the big guns that were stopping the Canadians from going along the bank.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And stopping the navy probably from coming in as well although the estuary was mined and the navy had one go at it before and said, ‘No. It’s too dangerous.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, we were trying to bomb these big guns and they were pretty impervious to bombs I think but it ended up being a fairly hairy sort of a thing because we would go over and they’d say, ‘Oh yes, well the weather’s not too good. You might have to fly at six thousand,’ and you’d get there and have to fly at four thousand or something like that. And so, there was a lot of anti-aircraft fire.
RG: A lot of flak. Yeah.
HA: Small arms stuff even.
RG: Yeah. Four thousand feet. You’re not very high are you?
LD: I’ve read about bomb aimers keeping some of the Window and putting the Window on the bottom of their aircraft and lying on the Window to stop —
RG: A bit of armour.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Using the Window.
LD: To protect them from the flak.
HA: I’ve never heard of that.
LD: I I guess these were kind of individual things that people —
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
LD: Systems that people developed themselves.
RG: Did you have a mascot or a, you know, a token or anything.
HA: On the side of the plane.
RG: No. A personal one. A personal one.
HA: That one of us carried? No. None of us seem to have been too superstitious.
RG: Ok.
HA: A lot of them were but —
RG: Do you know of all the chaps we’ve spoken to most of them have said that? That they didn’t do it.
HA: No.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And yet you read such a lot about it don’t you?
RG: Yeah.
HA: About the only superstitious thing we did was we’d all pee on the tail wheel before we took off.
RG: [laughs] Yeah. I believe that was a common one.
LD: Was that very easy? In those flying suits.
HA: It was not. No. I can’t, I can’t ever remember using the toilet down the back of the plane during any of our trips.
RG: The Elsan.
HA: The pilot did it once.
LD: From the sound of things, you wouldn’t have wanted to use it if you could avoid it.
HA: Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you were above ten thousand feet you’d have your oxygen on for a start. So, you’d have to disconnect that. Get a hold of a portable oxygen bottle, go down, climb over the main spar which was about this high.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The pilot went down once on a daylight trip. I forget where it was to. So, I got to fly the plane for half an hour.
RG: Oh right.
HA: Straight and level.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And what kind of, we’ve heard about the — that the meal you’d had before an op. Was that still happening for you?
HA: Yes. Yes. But one of the early things you find out about being on an op on a night somebody would have said 2154 and that would be the number of gallons that a plane would hold and you’d say, ‘Oh well, it’s a long trip.’ And then the next thing they’d announce that the flying meal would be on at 3 o’clock. Something like that. And then a briefing at about 5 o’clock. That sort of thing. It would all lead up to actually take off time.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. It was quite a long period.
LD: So how far ahead would they kind of lock down the station? You know, set the security measures in place.
HA: I’m not too sure. I think it would probably be twelve, fifteen hours. Something like that.
LD: Right.
HA: Maybe a bit longer.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And did you guys get the wakey wakey pills too?
HA: Yeah. They gave them to us and I never used them once I don’t think. I don’t know if anybody else in the crew ever used them. Maybe the gunners did because they’d be tested on some of the long trips for staying awake.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: In the dark.
RG: Yeah.
LD: How did they do that? Test them,
HA: They’d be stressed.
RG: And tested as in stressed.
LD: Oh right. Ok. Not examined.
HA: I used the wrong word.
LD: No. No. That’s fine. I just took it the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah. Examined. Yeah. That’s what I meant.
RG: So, your crew. You had the same crew throughout all twenty nine?
HA: Throughout. Yeah. No replacements. No.
RG: Yeah. Have you got their names and so forth?
HA: Yeah.
RG: I mean you probably almost certainly remember them.
LD: Yeah. But it’s got all this. Maybe it’s written in there.
HA: Our pilot was Peter Gray-Buchannan. With a hyphen. His elder brother had done two tours as a rear gunner earlier.
RG: Wow.
HA: Over there.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Gosh. He was a lucky man wasn’t he?
HA: Have you heard of Doubleday and Brill?
RG: No.
HA: From Ganmain. They’re both fairly famous men. They both enlisted from Ganmain early in the war. Both went over there and did at least two tours. Maybe three. Both were wing commanders with the DSO and a couple of DFCs. That sort of thing. Billy Brill was CO of our squadron when we arrived. And I’ll tell you about the DFC now.
RG: Yes. I was just about to come to that eventually.
LD: Yes, it’s on my list.
HA: When we got to the squadron Bill called all eight of the new crews that had arrived from training into his office and amongst other things said, because we were all, nearly all flight sergeants, ‘All you flight sergeants who were thinking of applying for a commission don’t bother until you’ve done twenty trips. And then if you keep your nose clean you get recommended.’ He didn’t say, ‘Most of you won’t make twenty.’ [laughs] But anyway, that was his — so when I had done twenty trips I applied for a commission and Bill — Bill had been moved on and we had a new younger CO called Douglas. And he took it upon himself to sort of decide who was officer material and who wasn’t, sort of thing. One of the questions he asked me was, ‘Are you going to be any more use to the air force with a commission?’ And I said, ‘No. I can’t say that I will.’ I didn’t give him the right answers anyway and he didn’t recommend me.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So —
RG: That’s a fair answer though Bert. I’ve got to say. I have to say.
HA: When we got towards the end of our tour. I think probably only with one trip to go. It may have been two. The group captain called me in one day and said, ‘I’ve a bit of a problem. I’ve got one CO who recommends you fellas when you’ve done twenty trips and you’ve looked after yourself. And the other fella says yes or no to some of them.’ And he said, ‘The RAAF hierarchy requires that even if the CO says no it has to come to me. It’s not final.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: ‘So that’s my problem. Are you a good navigator?’ ‘Oh, I think so. I’ve lasted this long.’
LD: You’d done at least twenty trips.
RG: Yeah.
LD: You must be good.
HA: That was the end of the interview. So apparently on that day he approved me for a commission and so sometime later I got, in the mail, a letter saying that I’d got a DFC and I was a pilot officer.
LD: Oh.
RG: So, you didn’t make pilot officer or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Oh. Ok
HA: Yeah. So I was a pilot officer dated from the day that I saw the group captain.
RG: Because as an airman you would have got the DFM wouldn’t you?
HA: Yeah.
RG: So, maybe they were going to give you the DFM and they went, ‘Oh God, he’s a pilot officer, we have to — [laughs] Did you get the DFM DFC for any particular —
HA: No.
RG: Just —
HA: I could show you the citation but it’s just a standard one that they gave to most people. The pilot got one with the same wording apparently.
RG: Right.
[pause]
HA: That’s fairly standard I think. There’d be hundreds of those. Came in a nice little case.
LD: Oh, it’s not there anymore though.
HA: It’s there.
RG: It’s on there.
LD: Oh, it’s a beautiful box isn’t it? It’s lovely.
HA: Yeah.
RG: You’ve got the Bomber Command clasp.
HA: Yes. I only got that one last year.
RG: It’s recent isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was a bit of a hassle because I filled in all the forms and so forth. Sent it to England. And they sent it back, they sent back word, ‘No. You don’t apply there. You apply at Canberra.’ So, I had to go through it all again. Copies of stuff from the logbook and all that.
LD: So how, how was it presented to you?
HA: It was just sent in the mail. It wasn’t. There was no, no ceremony at all.
LD: Right.
RG: There’s an interesting thing on the back of it I’ve just noticed. It’s got on it that it was obviously first issued in 1918 and it’s got George Rex on it and then 1945 is just stamped in at the bottom.
HA: Yeah.
RG: That’s you know, that’s interesting that they keep — yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: I suppose originally when they did they first design they didn’t think they’d need it again.
HA: Yeah.
[pause]
HA: A local federal MP gave out those sort of things at one stage.
RG: Oh, the sixtieth. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. Just a medal .
RG: Yeah. World War Two. Yeah.
HA: And I was sitting with some other fellas that day and they had a Bomber Command medal on their chest. And I said, I asked them, I said, ‘Where did you get that?’ And they said, ‘We bought it.’ You can’t get a Bomber Command medal. They haggled with the government over there for years about getting one and they were never approved. The best they could do was a clasp. But apparently —
RG: Did Fighter Command get one? They got one, didn’t they? Fighter Command.
HA: I don’t know. Battle of Britain got one I think.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. The Bomber Command one. That sort of — there were problems with that with the political ramifications of Bomber Command. After the war.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: That became quite unpleasant.
HA: Yeah.
LD: To say the least.
HA: Yeah.
LD: I just checked out the squadron before we came.
HA: Yeah.
LD: And — yeah. So, you talked about the support of ground operations during the D-day landings at that time and so on. It said that 467 participated in the raids on Peenemunde.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Were you there then?
HA: No.
LD: Ok.
HA: It was a research station for the V2s and V1s.
RG: And V1s. Yeah.
LD: Yes. It was a fascinating raid. I’ve read a book about it. it’s pretty amazing. And were you involved in Operation Manna and bringing the POWs back from Europe?
HA: No.
LD: And dropping supplies and so on.
RG: No. You’d finished by then, hadn’t you? You finished in January.
HA: I’ll tell you why I wasn’t. As soon as I finished my tour our pilot got transferred to Transport Command and I got transferred to Training Command. And I was an instructor at a Con Unit.
RG: Whereabouts?
HA: At Wigsley. Near Waddington.
RG: Yeah. Ok.
HA: And we were getting crews ready to go to squadrons that were going to be in Tiger Force.
RG: Tiger Force. Yeah.
LD: Right. That’s what else I was going to ask about because it said 467 was involved in that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, I was an instructor right up until they dropped the atom bomb.
LD: Right. Right. Fair enough.
HA: Yeah.
RG: And were you still at Wigsley right to the end?
HA: Still at Wigsley.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I stayed on at Wigsley for another couple of months after that and did a bit of ferrying. We ferried some Stirlings over to Northern Ireland and some Lancasters down to Southern Britain. Did a Cook’s Tour over some of the targets we’d been in Germany. But generally sort of loafed around.
RG: Cook’s tour.
HA: Alex talked about that. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. With a Cook’s Tour? Was that. Ok. Yeah. Well Alex was going over, he was a pilot. He’s living up at Orange. He was going over specifically to photograph the damage. Is that the same thing? Yeah.
HA: No. No. They just put a heap — a heap of interested fellas.
RG: It was literally a sightseeing tour.
HA: Like a real Cook’s Tour. I don’t know how many. A dozen or something like that in a Lancaster. I took my box brownie and took a few photographs.
RG: But did you land anywhere on the continent or just went out and came back or —?
HA: Somewhere I’ve got where we went. I think it’s probably in the logbook where we went.
RG: Oh. Bound to be. Yeah. Yeah. No. Alex said they were photographing the damage for analysis purposes. Cook’s tour. Base — Brentwood. [unclear] [ Cape Gris Nez, [ unclear] Aachen. Turin. Cologne. Krefeld, Duisberg — it was a tour wasn’t it? Ham. Munster. Wesel. Eindhoven.
LD: Ray, can you read them out loudly for the tape?
RG: Oh yes. Ok.
HA: Start at the with the ones inside Europe.
RG: Yeah. Well, Cape Gris Nez, [unclear] Maastricht. Aachen. Turin. Cologne. Krefeld. Duisburg. Essen. Ham. Munster. Wesel. Eindhoven. Turnhout. Ostende. [unclear] Calais. Cap Gris Nez,
LD: Wow.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That’s comprehensive.
HA: Yeah. It was good. Yeah.
RG: It must have been an odd feeling flying over and knowing that no one was going to shoot at you.
HA: Yeah. Oh yeah. We had a look at the Dortmund Ems Canal. I don’t know if that’s even mentioned there but —
RG: Dortmund. Not the canal itself is mentioned but no.
HA: The Dortmund Ems Canal was a place where Bomber Command did a lot of damage. I think we might have been one of the first raids where they actually breached the canal walls and let the water out and stranded the barges but there was ten attempts at it I think. Altogether. Some of them didn’t work. We did two on the Dortmund Ems Canal itself and another one the Ems Wesel Canal which was nearby. Both night-time raids. And because of its importance it was a very dangerous target to go to. The ack-ack was fierce. Had plenty of searchlights and usually we seemed to have to, for one reason or another, do orbits when we got to the target. Either because cloud was too — we had to come down through cloud to find it or one time they had trouble with the marking and so, they said, ‘Do an orbit until we can get it properly marked.’ ‘Do another orbit.’ ‘Now you can come and do it,’ sort of thing. That sort of business happened.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, and we did, finally did a daylight one on New Year’s Day to the Dortmund Ems Canal. And I met a fella after the war, playing golf, who’d been in our same squadron and was on the same raid and they got one engine on fire for a start and I wrote in my logbook, log and chart of the day, not the logbook, I’ve got a lot of logs and charts.
RG: Oh ok.
LD: Wow.
HA: “Aircraft on the starboard beam going down on fire. “ Dot dot dot. “Gone.” That was them.
RG: Oh right. Ok.
HA: They didn’t go down. They got down to about four thousand feet and got control of the plane and started off staggering back. Then it got another engine on the same side on fire and kept going. This fella was the bomb aimer and he said he put a piece of rope around the rudder pedal to help the pilot try and keep it straight. They staggered along and got fired at repeatedly because they were on fire but they got as far as the front line. To where the Americans were. And all bailed out successfully.
RG: Wow. Ok.
HA: The pilot was last out and he managed to get out apparently and got a DSO for it. Straightaway.
RG: Well, it sounds like he deserved it too. Yeah. You also did a raid here on the Lützow the battleship?
HA: Oh yes that was probably something special.
RG: Yeah [unclear] special target.
[LD excuses herself]
RG: Well there’s a daytime raid. Bergen as well.
HA: Yeah. Bergen was an interesting one. That was one of the ones where they said, ‘Bert, you ought to come out and have a look at it.’ This target. Most targets I didn’t want to come out of my blackout curtains. But Bergen there was four thousand feet mountains.
RG: On either side.
HA: And in between there was a valley where I, as navigator, was able to get on a Gee position line and keep between the two mountains and come down because we were supposed to bomb at twelve thousand or something but they said come down to the cloud base. Four thousand. We came down to three thousand eight hundred I think before we got out of the clouds. And then we snuck up a little bit. Just skimming under the clouds to the target and they’re shooting from downstairs. They’re shooting —
RG: From above. Yeah. Wow.
HA: He said, ‘You ought to come and see this. We’re being shot at from above as well as below.’
RG: God. Return from Marston Moor. So yeah, I was going to ask that. On any of your trips did you come down somewhere else?
HA: Yeah.
RG: Come back
HA: Quite a few times. I don’t know how many. Two or three perhaps. You come back from Europe and Waddington and all the inland bases would be covered with fog.
RG: Ah ok.
HA: So, they send you somewhere on the coast to land there.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I remember one time we got in a tender then and they drove us back and got lost. And so, we wondered around. It was a really cold night. Looking for, looking for Waddington.
LD: That’s just what you need I imagine.
HA: No signs up anywhere, you know.
RG: I can just imagine some of the conversations you guys would have with the drivers of the tenders, you know. We got all the way back from Germany and you can’t find bloody [laughs] Waddington.
HA: I think one of the navigators finally got in the front with him [laughs] I remember there was a town with a five way intersection where he didn’t know which one to take and he went backwards and bumped into a lamppost and about two hours later he bumped into the same lamp post [laughs] So, we were lost.
LD: Oh dear. Might have been easier to leave it ‘til daytime.
HA: Other times you’d stay. We stayed the night at one of those places too and then just flew back the next day.
RG: Yeah. I had a friend in Canberra. He’s dead now. He was a pilot in Stirlings and then — he was a flight sergeant and his navigator was a sergeant and he said there was a notice up one day saying volunteers for special operations. Instant promotion. Up one rank and he thought, ‘This is a good idea. What do you reckon?’ It was Pathfinder force.
HA: Yeah.
RG: So he converted over to Lancs for that. But he said when he was on Stirlings they were doing a navigation exercise. And it was a daytime one and they flew over another field and one of the, one of the crew was an RAF guy. He lived in the village nearby and he said, ‘Skipper can you put us down there?’ He said. So, they did. They put him down at the airfield. Went and had lunch in the mess and went back out. Ducked off home to see his mum, you know. Came back. And he said it would have been all perfect. He said, ‘I was taxiing up the runway, got to the end to turn on to the runway and clipped his wingtip and broke the navigational knob at the end on a post at the end of the runway. So, when he got back he had to explain how he managed to break it in the air.
HA: Yeah. He was in big trouble.
RG: Did you ever do anything like that? Your —
HA: No.
RG: No.
HA: We came back from a trip one time. I forget which one it was but when we got back to Waddington you couldn’t see the circuit lights. You could see the runway. It was very bad visibility and so the pilot said, ‘I’ve got to land this like a Tiger Moth. We’ll just get around the runway and then come in like that.’
RG: Side.
HA: And the fella that was in the caravan with the green and red light, sort of thing, at the end of the runway. He said afterwards, he said, ‘You fellas almost took my caravan off. Coming down like that.’ And then they closed the, they closed the place down. After that everybody else had to go over to the coast.
RG: Bert could you explain, sorry. The circuit lights. Can you explain how that, that worked?
HA: Yeah. They would have the runway with the runway lights and then they’d have circuit lights going. I don’t know. Half a mile. A mile around or something like that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Almost touching somebody else’s.
LD: Right.
HA: ‘Cause there were so many of them.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And when you came back wanting to land you’d come in on the right hand side, sort of thing. And you’d call up the girl on the microphone. Tell them who you were. “Mozart dog to slagwort.” They’d say, ‘Go to channel two,’ or something like that. She’d tell you to stay at four thousand. So you’d go around again. Then she’d say, ‘Prepare to land.’ You’d go around. You’d have to say, ‘Wheels,’ at a certain place and come around and then lining up with the runway. You’d say, ‘Funnel.’
RG: Funnel.
HA: Yeah. And if you got the green light from the bloke in the caravan you could land.
RG: Right. Ok. Ok. So with the circuit it was the same diameter with the aircraft stacked in the altitude?
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: So, you had a whole bunch of aircraft circling.
HA: She used to stack you up at four thousand or three thousand. Something like that.
RG: Ok.
HA: So, you wouldn’t run into one other.
RG: And you were all going anti clockwise, I guess.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Well it’s a very responsible position isn’t it?
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. All done by WAAFs.
RG: Yeah. ‘Cause you would have had aircraft coming back and straggling back really wouldn’t you? All over the place.
HA: Yeah. Sometimes.
LD: And she would potentially be triaging to see who’s going to land before others because of problems.
HA: If somebody had damage they would get priority and they’d leave you stacked up there.
RG: Yeah. I heard, I heard, sorry, it was earlier in the war. I think it was about ‘42 that the Germans were using intruders raids. They tried to get in to the circuits. Get an intruder in to the circuit. A night fighter. Was that happening later in the —?
HA: Yes. When I was at Wigsley. I was duty navigator up in the tower one night and some ME110s came in with the bomber stream coming back and got across the coast without —
RG: Without being detected because they were in the stream. Yeah.
HA: And they came to Wigsley and a couple of the other Con Units. They shot down two training planes at Wigsley.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I don’t know how many they shot down altogether. Five or six I think. They went to Waddington and machine gunned the mess. Had a go at the bomb dump without [laughs] without any damage. Bomb dumps are hard to —
RG: Yeah. They’re well protected.
HA: That was some experience.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Because the people in the control tower — it was probably a duty pilot and a duty wireless op as well as a duty navigator and somebody in charge of it. A bit of a flap on. You know, what do you do with planes being shot down?
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Turn the runway lights off for a start.
RG: Yeah. And then what do you do with the stacked aircraft in the air. Redirect them?
HA: Tell them to look out.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. That was, that was a strange one.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I thought later in the war I wondered whether that still happened because the Germans had lost so many aircraft.
HA: Yeah. That would have been, that would have been probably March or something like that. 1945.
RG: Yeah. It was between January and May so, yeah. Wow. So still that late.
LD: So were they using FIDO for you to land with at night?
HA: Only on certain ‘dromes. We didn’t have it on every drome.
LD: Oh right.
HA: There was only a few FIDO ‘dromes.
LD: Yeah.
HA: It was terribly expensive.
LD: Oh, that’s, that’s what I thought. Looking at it it must have been just in terms of fuel.
RG: Did Waddington? Did Waddington have it?
HA: Used up hundreds of gallons of petrol.
RG: Waddington didn’t have it?
HA: No.
RG: No.
LD: No. I sort of wondered how effective it was too. With all that petrol burning there’d be smoke and everything as well as well as, as well as the lights.
HA: Probably turbulence. I should think it’s probably very difficult for pilots to land in.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Hence what, hence what Arthur was doing. Yeah. [unclear] he said it was very accurate by the way.
LD: Yeah.
RG: He said you could land a Lancaster almost hands off at night without any trouble whatsoever.
HA: Oh well.
RG: Then the war ended.
HA: Good planes to fly apparently.
RG: I’ve heard that. Yes. The pilot. A couple of pilots we’ve spoken to have said that. Yeah. They really liked them. Arthur all this stuff. This is obviously very precious. Have they got copies in Evans Head or anywhere else? Or are there any copies of it?
LD: I think there’s a book here too Rob.
RG: Oh. Ok.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Because what I was going to say was if we can manage to get copies of all this stuff — if you’re happy to do that. Put them in the archive as well.
HA: I’ve got the other logbook here somewhere I think. Yeah. I might have it down here. I have another logbook that you could take perhaps. It’s got all the stuff in it for the operations. I copied them out. I’ll find it for you. Probably downstairs somewhere.
RG: If we could copy them. I mean we could copy them here before we go and bring them back to you today.
HA: Well you’re welcome. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. Thank you. I guess we could go to the library or somewhere.
LD: Office Works. If they’re open.
HA: That book right there.
LD: This would be fabulous.
HA: I was telling you about the crew that got shot, well they caught on fire.
RG: Yes.
HA: Their navigator produced this book afterwards about their experiences.
LD: Oh. It’s not yours. I just saw it was from a navigator. I didn’t realise it wasn’t yours.
HA: No. It’s not mine. It’s about their crew’s experience and so forth.
RG: [unclear]
LD: Oh, is this is what you were talking about?
HA: It’s got little bits. See. That’s some of —
LD: A copy of the logbook.
HA: Some stuff out of my log and charts of the day. I lent it to him and he got it put it into the book.
LD: Is that what you were talking about with the copy of the logbook?
HA: No.
LD: Ok.
HA: No. That was just to emphasise that our tour — I think twenty four out of our twenty nine trips were just with 5 Group. We only did about five trips with, big trips with seven or eight hundred of Bomber Command.
LD: Oh yes. Oh you weren’t part of those really huge bomber streams then.
HA: Not as, not as a rule. Mostly we were just 5 Group.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And on some of those little daylight trips only half of 5 Group, you know, about a hundred planes.
LD: Right. That’s a big change from earlier in the war, isn’t it?
HA: Yeah. Yes.
LD: Yeah. Arthur. Sorry Bert. That’s Rob getting the names mixed up when we arrived.
RG: Yeah. Sorry. And I just called you Arthur a minute ago. Sorry about that.
LD: Very bad of me. What sort of experience did you have with the Committee of Adjustment. Did you, within —
HA: Were they the fellas that decided on LMF and that sort of thing?
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: Never had any experience of it. No. I heard about it.
RG: Oh, Committee of Adjustment were the guys who cleared the crews who were missing. Cleared their possessions and stuff out.
HA: Oh yes. Yeah. We had another crew in the same room as us. Sixty on one side and sixty on the other side. Both about the same time. And the navigator of the other crew was a good friend of mine because he came from Tooraweenah and he said I’m the only fella that’s ever, he’d ever met in the air force that had ever heard of Tooraweenah let alone been there and had a drink in his father’s pub. And they got shot down on their twentieth trip. So, we got woken up a couple of hours after we went to bed by the service police coming in and asking us if we would just mind looking on when they were sorting out their belongings.
RG: Witnessing that. Yeah.
HA: If there was anything that we particularly wanted to do something with to send to their parents or something like that. But we didn’t find anything that we wanted to. They just took the lot.
RG: Ok. So they just bundled everything together and took it.
HA: In the middle of the night sort of thing. It would have been 4 o’clock in the morning or something it was.
RG: Right. Ok. ‘Cause we’ve heard different — different stations seemed to do it very differently.
HA: Yeah. They were Air Force Military Police.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause other stations they used just airmen and —
LD: Sometimes the chaplain.
RG: Sometimes the chaplain. Yeah. Alex Jenkins, the pilot from Orange. He got shot down and he was the sole survivor. He was in a German military hospital, a Luftwaffe military hospital. Only for a few weeks actually before the British army overran the place in Holland and so he was sent back and he said when he got back all his kit was gone and he had to go down to London.
LD: At the dead meat factory, he described it as.
RG: Yeah. The dead meat factory with all these steel boxes with all the kit in it. He said there were just thousands of them in this warehouse. He had to go in and say, ‘That’s mine. Get it out.’ Yeah.
HA: There’s a few things that I’ve put aside that might be worth your while copying if you want to.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Because you could maybe photograph.
RG: Photograph these but — yeah.
LD: Those. Yeah.
RG: [what I could do with it] actually, we will take copies of those. Thanks. Bert, this chap because this is his book not yours is he still around or is he —
HA: No. He was four or five years older than me. I played golf with him for a few years here at Wagga.
RG: Right.
HA: But he’s gone now. He’d be a hundred, I think, nearly, now. Sam Nelson.
RG: Is there family around or anybody because what would be good is if we could get a copy of the book for the archive but the other thing too for books like this and we did it for another chap at Orange who was a navigator. An RAF guy. He’d written a book about his time in a prison camp and we’re trying to get these things into the National Library because they’ll take them just like that.
HA: You can take that as long as you like.
RG: Would it be alright though ‘cause it’s not you know.
HA: I’ve read it.
RG: No. I was thinking like, if the family might object. I don’t know. Should we notify the family that it’s? Is there any way to contact?
HA: The navigator himself. I think he’s probably gone.
RG: Yeah. He’s gone but — the family —
HA: I could tell you one little snippet about them. His crew were part RAF and part Australian.
RG: Yeah.
HA: At one time they had a reunion in Australia. Went over to Canberra. At the time that the G for George had just been refurbished.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Put back in to the museum and was all roped off. And they went up and I think Sam himself said to one of the attendants, ‘This is our crew that flew in Lancasters and we’ve just had a reunion. How about letting us get in?’ And they held it up and let them get in.
RG: Yeah. Actually, this chap from, Alex from Orange. He did the same thing. It was only – we spoke to him last year and only a month or so before he’d been down to the war memorial. It was the last time he could go down because he was getting a bit frail and he got down there and they put on a lift thing to get him up to the door. He got into the fuselage and he got up to the main spar and the two young guys were in attendance, and they said, ‘Do you want to go any further?’ And he said, ‘Yeah. I want to get over that main spar just one more time.’ And he said, ‘It took quite a while,’ he said, ‘But I got over the damned thing and he got up to the cockpit.’ [And he got the gun ] in the cockpit and he stood on it but on his way out he was coming down. He looked through one of the windows on the side and there’s an ME262 over in the corner. And that was the aircraft that shot him down. Not the same aircraft obviously but yeah and he said that was a bit of an odd feeling. But he said that anybody who had ever flown in Lancasters would understand that. That he just wanted to get over the main spar just once more. They had to help him back across but if he could only get over one way. You know. Yeah.
HA: I can remember — one thing I didn’t mention before. You asked me about damage to the plane. Quite a lot of holes sometimes. If they weren’t too big they just patched them over, you know, But down where the rear gunner slid in to his turret there was a piece of, probably a piece of plywood or something like that that he sat on and then slid in to his turret. One time we came back there was a hole the size of your fist through that. It would have missed the rear gunner by that much. And another time the pilot put his ‘chute in and they inspected it. I don’t know if they always inspected it. Probably they did but anyway there was a lump of shrapnel.
RG: Wedged in the parachute.
HA: In his seat parachute.
RG: And he was sitting on that.
HA: He was sitting on it. It didn’t get through the parachute [laughs]
RG: So none of your crew was ever wounded?
HA: No.
RG: No.
HA: No.
RG: Lucky.
HA: We were lucky.
RG: Yeah. So, with your time at Training Command — because the training losses were really high weren’t they? Guys killed in training. But in, was that with, was there a squadron that you were with at Wigsley or was it a training squadron that was, or just an ATU?
HA: I don’t think they called them a squadron. It was just a unit.
RG: Yeah. Ok. But did you lose any aircraft or any people under training? Apart from the ones shot down by the ME110s?
HA: I don’t think so. When we were on Stirlings we had a hairy experience. There had been a lot of rain and dirt alongsides of the runway was soft and there was a Stirling came in trying to land in a crosswind. Put one wheel off the runway, skidded out into the mud and we went out and helped to dig the bomb aimer out of his turret which he shouldn’t have been in because the mud had pushed him up over the guns.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Like a bulldozer.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Not much space in there at the best of times is there?
HA: No. So the next day we’re doing a three engine practice landing in a Stirling with, obviously no bombs and not much petrol sort of thing. So you can understand what happened. You’re not supposed to come, once you get below a thousand feet for a three engine landing you should land. So our skipper’s coming in. Same cross wind. Knows about what happened the day before. Got down almost to the deck and said, ‘I’m going around again.’ Pushed the three throttles forward. Told the engineer to start the other engine. The navigator’s doing his usual job calling out the airspeed so he doesn’t have to worry about that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The stalling speed is about eighty apparently and I’m calling out, ‘Sixty five.’ [laughs] ‘Sixty five.’ ‘Sixty five.’ The pilot’s hanging on.
RG: [laughs] Jesus.
HA: By the time I got to the end of the runway the other engine had started up and because we had flaps down too it took a while to get up in to the air again.
RG: To get the speed up. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: That was touch and go.
RG: Yes. I should say so. So, what about when you were — the other time in the UK between ops. On leave. Did you have any leave as such while you were there?
HA: Oh yes.
RG: On your squadron
HA: Yes. You normally got six days leave every six weeks while you were on ops.
RG: Oh ok. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A bit less if a few others got killed because they had a waiting list, you know. It was your turn.
RG: Oh yes. I heard about that. Yes. Yes.
HA: So it might be only five weeks.
RG: Yeah. I’ve heard about that. So where did you do on your leaves? You went in to London obviously a few times.
HA: Oh I’ve been to London. Yeah. I went up to Edinburgh one time. Took a girl to the pictures one time in the middle of summer. I was thinking I might have a kiss afterwards. It was still bloody sunny. The sun was up at 9 o’clock 10 o’clock at night. They had double summer time on.
RG: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, you’re not trying to photograph that logbook are you?
LD: Yeah.
RG: Oh it’ll take forever.
LD: No. It wouldn’t take that long but I can’t, the shadow of the camera keeps, the shadow of the phone keeps going over it.
RG: Bert, if we could borrow this stuff.
HA: Yeah sure.
RG: We’ll photograph it and or copy it and then bring it all back to you today.
HA: Ok. That’s fine. Yeah.
RG: We can do that. That’s cool.
HA: I was going to say about leave.
RG: Leave. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
HA: I think after about our twenty trips we had leave and by that time I had a car and the skipper had a car. His was twenty pounds. Mine, I think, was thirty or something like that.
RG: What was yours?
HA: A Morris. Morris Minor. No. A bit bigger than a Morris Minor. It was a little narrow thing but a sedan with high windows.
RG: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HA: Morris something or other.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A Morris Ten I think it was called. He had a Ford. And we decided we would do some touring down towards Devon and that sort of thing. Together. So we found somebody. I think the engineer might have put us on to an aunt or a niece or something like that and an address we could give down there. Where you couldn’t get to it by train.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And so you could petrol coupons to go.
RG: Oh ok. I was wondering. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. So we took off and we stayed at places like Stow in the Wold.
LD: They have such funny names some of them don’t they?
HA: Yeah. So we had a nice tour down that way.
LD: Did you have any family in the UK or anything? That you were able to visit?
HA: No. No. Some people did. Like Charlwood.
RG: Charlwood. Yeah. He went to the town of Charlwood to look up his ancestors. Yeah.
HA: When we first got to Brighton the first lot of leave we had there from there they had a scheme called the Lady Ryder Scheme.
LD: Oh yes. I’ve heard of that.
HA: Where they would send you for a week to somebody just to let you settle in to Britain, sort of thing and so I was sent up to a place not far from Windsor to a lady’s who was Mrs Adams.
RG: There you go.
HA: That’s probably why they picked her.
RG: Yeah.
HA: When I got there she’s got this lovely two storey house and she said, ‘I’ll just show you around the house and you can look after yourself. I’ll give you the key because my daughter’s having a daughter or a son or something and I won’t be here. Just help yourself.’ I never saw her again sort of thing.
RG: A bit pointless wasn’t it really. Not helping you to settle you in but still.
HA: But she said, ‘If you go to this little village. I think it was Taplow or somewhere there’s a woman here who likes seeing Australians. Margaret Vyner. Was that the name of the, yeah that’s right. Margaret Vyner was this Australian actress who liked seeing Australians.
RG: Ah ok.
HA: So she gave me her address and I went around there and was made welcome and she was married to an English actor called Hugh Marlowe who was a big handsome fella who’d played The Saint in one of the movies.
RG: Oh ok. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: I hadn’t been there very long and in comes an army captain with a case of brandy that they knew. I can’t just pick his name out from memory now but he was a very famous English actor.
RG: Not David Niven.
HA: David Niven.
RG: You’re kidding.
LD: Oh really.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Right.
HA: Back from North Africa.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Handsomest man in the universe I think.
HA: Yeah. A big name. So they got stuck in to the brandy and started talking about acting and all this sort of stuff and I said, you know, like, you don’t want me in the way. I snuck off back to Mrs Adam’s place.
RG: Oh well. You could say you met David Niven anyway.
HA: Yeah. And then the next day I decided to go to London. Got into a carriage. David Niven and a heap of others were in the same carriage. And he was there — [laughs] I said, ‘G’day,’ and he said, ‘G’day.’ And that was it [laughs}
LD: He’d had a big night had he?
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: What about demob? What happened with demob? So you were there for a couple of months. You were there right up to VJ Day you said. In Training Command.
HA: Yeah. Finally we, we got sent to Brighton to spend some time waiting for a ship to come home. Got in a game of hockey at one stage which was the first time I had a game of hockey over there. I was very keen on hockey at high school. We played at Bournemouth in snow. Sago snow or something. They used a red ball instead of a white one [laughs] But yeah we put in some time at Brighton and then finally got on the Aquitania.
RG: Oh yes. Ok.
HA: Came home around South Africa.
RG: So that was what September or something? Or October. In 1945 still though.
HA: Late 1945.
RG: Yeah.
HA: About November or December ’45 or something like that I think.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Fair bit of waiting around for a ship.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. They were pretty busy. A lot of people to move.
HA: I went home to Mendooran and somewhere on the demob business in Sydney they did aptitude tests and that sort of thing. IQ tests I suppose and said — [pause] It’s lunchtime.
Other: Yes.
HA: In a bit I suppose. Well these people are going to leave very shortly.
RG: We’ll finish this off very quickly and you can have your lunch. We’ll just finish it off very quickly now.
Other: Ok.
RG: We’ve got to the end now.
Other: That’s alright.
RG: Five — ten minutes.
RG: Yeah.
Other: He can talk.
HA: I’ve got a pretty good memory.
RG: You do actually. Yeah.
HA: Where were we up to?
RG: Aptitude tests and IQ tests.
HA: ‘Oh yes,’ they said, ‘You can go to university and do virtually what you want to. Whatever you like.’ I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to go back to the public service. That’s one thing. So I elected to do Ag Science. Which I did. And I think only forty of the one hundred or so people who lined up for it passed because half of them were ex-servicemen and the place was overcrowded and they weren’t — didn’t have the facilities for big numbers that they should have had.
RG: Whereabouts was that? Sorry. That was at —?
HA: Sydney Uni.
RG: Sydney Uni. You said you only did a year of that.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I thought to myself it’s a four year course. I’d used up nearly all the money I’d kept from the end of the war. What am I going to do for the next three years? Talked to a couple of fellas who had just finished fourth year Ag Science. They said, ‘The best we seem to be able to do is get a job with the Agricultural Department at about eight pounds a week.’ I said, ‘No.’ Dad had just sold the farm because of the drought and he had a bit of spare money. He said, ‘I could stake you some the money to start share farming.’
RG: That’s you and your brother did that.
HA: So we went share farming and made some money.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. And that was it.
HA: That was it. I did a bit of truck driving and had a sports store and then went back to, oh, went back to uni by correspondence while I was teaching at Mudgee.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Is there anything else you’d like to add or any questions for us?
HA: If you’d like to read through those you’ll find some interesting stuff. I’ve written some three pages in the last couple of days of things that I’ve sort of —
RG: Ok.
HA: Thought were important.
RG: Yeah. Well we’ll definitely, we’ll take copies of those definitely. But we’ll let you have your lunch now.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Thank you very much for that.
LD: Can you just sign this here. This is just to say that —
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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AAdamsHG170215
PAdamsHG1704
Title
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Interview with Herbert Adams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:53:42 audio recording
Creator
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Rob Gray
Date
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2017-02-15
Description
An account of the resource
Herbert Adams grew up in New South Wales Australia and joined the Air Training Corps as soon as it was established. He later joined the Royal Australian Air Force and after training, he completed a tour of operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. He describes crewing up, flying operations in Lancasters and his experience of avoiding aerial attack. He recalls the use of navigational aids including Gee, API and H2S. He then became an instructor at RAF Wigsley. He discusses an occasion when Me 110s attacked the airfield. He talks of a Cook's Tour over Germany when others photographed the after effects of the war. He was demobilised back to New South Wales and later taught for the RAAF.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
California--San Francisco
United States
California
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
467 Squadron
5 Group
aircrew
Anson
bombing
control caravan
Cook’s tour
crewing up
demobilisation
Distinguished Flying Cross
fuelling
Gee
ground personnel
H2S
Lancaster
Me 110
military living conditions
navigator
Operational Training Unit
promotion
RAF Lichfield
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Swinderby
RAF Waddington
RAF Wigsley
sanitation
service vehicle
Stirling
superstition
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/318/3475/APughA160625.2.mp3
4a2607dfd0ac35fbffecc7cae5c11a55
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pugh, Alan
A Pugh
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Alan Pugh.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Pugh, A
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AdP: Set that up. Just tap this to make sure it’s working. Alright. Get rid of that, sit down, pick up my list of questions and we’ll go. So, like, like I did last time I’ll just do a short introduction.
AlP: Yeah.
AdP: To set the scene.
AlP: That’s alright.
AdP: And we’ll go from there. This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre is with Alan Pugh who was a navigator in training at a Heavy Conversion Unit when the war ended. It’s the 25th of June 2016. We’re at Alan’s nursing home in Warragul in Victoria. My name’s Adam Purcell. Alan, we might start somewhere in the beginning. Can you tell me something about growing up and your early life and first job and schooling and things like that?
AlP: I was at school here. I was born and bred in Warragul. No. Sorry, in Colac, Western Victoria of ordinary parents who — my father was, worked in retail and he was, during the war a sergeant instructor in the Volunteer Defence Corps and was therefore quite keen that I, as a teenager growing toward eighteen in the 40s, early 40s, should go to my choice of the RAAF. And I had been two years by that time in the Air Training Corps once it started up in 1941 or something like that. And I wanted to fly. I just wanted to fly. And so in the process of the period between sixteen, my age of sixteen and eighteen, I did have the opportunity of going to an air force station. It was the south side of Melbourne. Laverton. Which was a service [pause], servicing facility I suppose. And I got the opportunity there for a weekend exercise and had a ride. A ride, I thought in, in an Avro Lanc. No. Not a Lancaster. An Avro Anson. And as I, as I flew over my home town which is only less than a hundred k’s away I had the excitement of seeing my home environment in this unfamiliar sense and that thrilled me to the back teeth. And so I was destined to go in to the RAAF and hopefully aircrew, if they’d accept me, in 1943. January 1943 found me at work. I’d left school. The family economy was not strong. And other members of the family. So I resumed my education by correspondence in the year eleven. By that time also I, I was admitted in the ATC. Air Training Corps. And quite rapidly studied the airmanship, Morse code, aircraft recognition. All those things we did but even, even as well as drill. So in September 1943, my birthday, eighteenth birthday arose. But just before then I received a letter from the military forces telling me that I would need to report to the army base out at western [pauses] Western Melbourne. West Melbourne. What was it Adam? Do you remember?
AdP: West Melbourne.
AlP: The big suburb out there. It’s our big suburb.
AdP: Not Footscray.
AlP: No. It’s further out. Further out.
AdP: Oh right.
AlP: Anyway.
AdP: No. I don’t know.
AlP: I wrote back, and I said that I’d already indicated to ATC that I wanted to join the RAAF and I’d wait for their call up. I received another letter back from them to say that if I don’t receive a call up by, I think it was 7th of October 1943 the first letter stands. I still report to the army base. Fortunately, I got my letter from the RAAF and very early in October I fronted up in Melbourne to, with a bunch of other country lads and city lads who had just recently turned eighteen and we were interviewed and some of us selected to report to Somers, Number 2 ITS, on such and such a date. Which was very, very close to that date. And so we did. And so I was interviewed. Did all the medical tests. All the ones. The intimate ones as well. And Number 46 course commenced during October. And there I found myself AC2. The lowest deck of the RAAF. AC2 Pugh, AH. 438436. Next to me was AC2 Salmon, Ralph — who received the number 438438. And we still see each other periodically these days. We remained friends all that time.
AdP: What, where were you when you heard that war had been declared and what were you doing at the time?
AlP: At school. I was at school. I was probably only second or third form then. The headmaster, AB Jones called us to school assembly. So we went all out in to the quadrangle. Lined up to be told that war has been declared and as of that date Australia, or Britain, the Prime Minister of Britain had declared war on Germany. And as of that date we also were at war.
AdP: What were your feelings when you heard that?
AlP: Pardon me?
AdP: What did you think when you heard that?
AlP: I don’t know what I thought about that. We were all muttering, ‘War. War.’ It’s something. World War One was history we were being taught. Many stories we knew, and we didn’t know what to expect. Hadn’t thought about our own involvement. But our parents. What we got from our parents was pretty much what we, what we thought. This is terrible but we’ll have to do it. Go through it all over again. My dad himself was very quick to offer his services if there was to be a Dad’s Army. But because of us kids and mum he wasn’t prepared to, to enlist. He was over age.
AdP: So, alright, can you, can you tell me something about the interview? The medical process that you were talking about. Briefly.
AlP: No. I can’t remember very much of it. It was, it was height, weight. Stethoscope stuff. Looking at our teeth. I know I had, had to have a couple of fillings very early in my time at Somers. The short arm inspection was the intimate bit. And do I have to describe that? Or would that –?
AdP: Please go ahead.
AlP: It’s an examination of one’s genitals to see that we weren’t [pause] that A) we were male and B that we didn’t have a noxious disease. A noxious disease. I call it noxious. That was a periodical through our career. A warning. Incidentally, of course, also we received, I received the injections for, against smallpox. What do we call that? Vaccination. That was done as well. That’s as much as I remember, Adam.
AdP: So what memories do you have of Somers and your training that you did there?
AlP: Somers. I remember arriving. This bunch of sheds. Cabins I suppose they were. They had belonged to the education department. And moving into there there was a, I seem to remember that there was a Tiger Moth elevated on a pole in front of us and there was an emblazoned sign —RAAF. Number 2 ITS Somers. In there we were soon allocated our uniforms. Full uniform. Plus battledress. Plus forage cap of course. Blue dress uniform. Several shirts. Tie. Underwear. Several underwear. Socks and shoes. And the notorious bag of straw. The pallias. Then we were taken around the various areas. Shown the features including the parade ground which we frequently frequented and the [pause] I don’t think there was a parachute section there. No. That wasn’t. That was later. That was later in the course. There was no need for parachutes because we weren’t — there was no flying at ITS. Then in the classrooms it was a bit much more of ATS. ATC rather. Air Training Corps continued day after day. Study at night for a certain amount of time plus drill. Plus some rifle training. And several route marches along the shore of Somers being a bayside suburb. And I remember the drill instructor. A disastrous boy. I won’t use the other words because there might be children listening. But he was one of those members who exercised his anxiety and anger against trainee aircrew. I heard the rumour that he was a failed candidate himself. So this was his revenge. This may not be true. May not be true but I know he didn’t like two or three of us and exercised some discipline. The boy corporal. I remember, and we almost worshipped the squadron leader Hubert Opperman who was our physical training. Head of physical training. Hubert Opperman was world champion cyclist. Australian world champion cyclist. And Australian being world champion cyclist in a number of areas prior to the war. And I used to watch him in the Warragul — sorry in the Melbourne to Warrnambool race. Annual road race. A hundred and eighty miles. As he travelled through Colac because we would watch every year. Watch that race. The contestants going through. There were contestants from several parts of the world. Hubert Opperman. Big name.
AdP: What did he do? He was a drill instructor or a PT instructor or something?
AlP: He was — no. He was in charge of all that. So I’m not sure what he did but he did operate the exercise class for us with fitness tests and so on. But he didn’t do the work out of the, out on the drill. Drill ground.
AdP: Yeah.
AdP: I don’t remember much else. Indeed, I can’t remember the name of the CO. Nor any of the other officers. The teachers. Those who led the classes. The classes were comprehensive. Maths and more Morse code and more aircraft recognition stuff. That was where we had to learn a vast number of aircraft, I think by the time. By this time Japan was in the war. With a little bunch of [toras?] So we had to recognise American, British, Italian as well. Aircraft. And get to recognise them in part of a second. They were flashed on the screen and we were tested for progressive growth on that. Improvement over the period of the three months.
AdP: What happened at the end of that training?
AlP: The end of the ITS training? Well, among other things we were, in the very last stage they took us, gave us the opportunity of getting of getting onto the link trainer. The link trainer was a device that you sat in and you used your hands, your feet and your eyes to, to focus. Each of these, your impulse, each of your limbs controlled a light. And this, as I remember it, and this could be a bit vague the, as we set in motion a simulated movement but actually we were just rocking around and our, our hands, each hand controlled a light. We had to focus that on another moving post. I don’t know what the moving thing was. It was something on the wall. It maybe was another light. We all, we tried that. That tested our hand and eye and foot coordination. I didn’t like it. I thought this is something I don’t want to be part of. What else have we got? But they gave us the choice actually. Do you want to be pilot? Do you want to be a navigator? Do you want to be a wireless operator? No one offered to be an air gunner. We all wanted to be one of those three I guess. I think most of the guys wanted to be a pilot. I liked the academic aspect, if you can call it that, Adam, of the study and the work. We had some prelimary work on map reading and navigation. Map plotting and so on and I rather liked that. So when it came to the choice of what we wanted to be I was amazed that I wanted, that they gave us a choice. And I said, ‘Please sir, I choose to be a navigator trainee.’ We were called, it was called air observer at the time. Alias navigator/bomber. Navigator/bomb aimer. And that would be probably a second last week we were at Somers. The last week we were summoned to parade in our chosen [pause] where we were advised before this [pause] after that, after that, that period. The last week we were advised whether or not we had achieved our choice. And I had. I’d achieved mine. And just before the end of the week we were paraded in our, in our chosen trades. There were thirty two of us from that course, 46 Course, Somers who wanted to be navigators. Two of them were Dutch. One a mixed-race Dutch Indonesian. And they were told that, ‘You will be staying in Australia. You remainder thirty. You are on final leave as from now and you’ll be going to Canada. And you will be, you are to report to,’ such and such a spot. A place in [pause], it was in, at Spencer Street Station. That’s right. We were to report such and such a date, at such and such a time at Spencer Street Station early in January. This by the way by now we were in, we were in December. We went on final leave. Sent home to tell our parents. Took me five days before I could tell my mother. She hinted at it. Dad wasn’t at all worried. Dad was a very loyal Australian would-be soldier. And then he accompanied me to Melbourne that day. That date. We got to Spencer Street Station. Got on the Sydney Express. Said a tearful goodbye and off to Sydney for embarkation to Canada. Got to Sydney and there was a slight change of plan. And the change of plan was that we were leaving from Melbourne. Oh well, I thought. There were no perfect organisations in the world. There was only one perfect person and that was a long time ago. So we were, I think only a day or two in Sydney and back. Back to Melbourne and we left the train at Flinders Street. Or Spencer Street it would have been wouldn’t it? And entrained then or bussed I suppose it was. We were bussed to Melbourne Cricket Ground. The last time I was in Melbourne Cricket Ground I was standing on a wooden box watching a test match between England and Australia.
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: Seven years earlier. I was eleven. Here I am now. Eighteen. With the privilege of sleeping on the concrete stands at the cricket ground. The Grandstand of the cricket ground. And with, again with a cursed pallias to sleep on and given four days, indicated that in four days we would be leaving fully equipped with the, to go, to go, to be embarked from Port Melbourne but this was secret. We were not to let anybody know. It was too be highly secret. We were, the day before we, we left by train we were given a message. We were the day before we would rise at 4am and we would, I don’t think we even ate. We were to pick up our gas masks, our eating irons, our equipment and our bag of course. Our sausage bag. Have you seen the sausage bags Adam? The long.
AdP: The kit bag.
AlP: The kit bag. Yeah. And marched across the cricket ground. Around it perhaps, would have been. Around the cricket ground to the railway line which ran the further, this is the southern side of the Melbourne Cricket Ground. And that was the southernmost line through Flinders Street Station. It was late but never mind. We, we all embarked, and the train took off on a very halting journey to, through Flinders Street Station. Still a bit dark, but not quite as dark as had been. The idea was to be we were travelling in secret. And by the time we were travelled through the main traffic stream in South Melbourne it was 8 o’clock. Full daylight and traffic everywhere and people waving and seeing us on the train and, ‘Good bye boys.’ ‘All the best boys.’ All this sort. The most publicity we could have got. Down to the ship on the port at Port Melbourne. It was the USS Hermitage. An American. An American troop ship. And a pretty old ship. And on, on board we encountered some American GIs. A lot of them. A lot of [pause] quite a few Chinese civilian refugees and some Russian civilian refugees on different, different decks from us. We were given a small portion of one of the first deck I think. Upper deck. And then there was quite a lot of, below decks, a load of Lascars. Indian seamen. Merchant seamen on their way to America. Probably to pick up new, new ships. Whether they’d lost their ships. Whether they’d been sunk or what we didn’t know. We didn’t have any relationships with them. They were kept away from us. In fact everyone was kept away from us. We were about, well besides us Victorian members from ITS, navigators and bomb aimers and wireless operators we had the ones from Sydney as well. Maybe some from other states. I don’t know. We all came back in the trains anyway together. Back from Sydney to Melbourne as I described earlier. And on one bright sunny January morning we made our way out of Port Phillip into Bass Strait on our way to the US. California. January 1944. A hot and beautiful summer. And very soon we started a rather haphazard course. Zig zag course. And within a few days it was getting cold. And then it got quite cold and we couldn’t understand it. We were going to California. We reasoned it out of course that our course was taking us south of New Zealand and it wasn’t until we noticed, noticed clearly that we were on a north east.
[background voices regarding blood pressure tests]
Other: Hello. Alan, it’s Meredith.
AlP: Meredith. Yes. Meredith. Nurse. This is my friend Adam. He’s interviewing me again.
Other: Gents, I’m really sorry to interrupt. I know you’re right in the middle of stories but Alan I do need to do your blood pressure again and go through those questions that we ask.
AlP: Yes.
Other: Because I’m just about to ring the doctor. Sorry.
AdP: No worries. I’ll cut it out later. I’m quite used to it.
AlP: You’re happy to stay Adam?
AdP: Yeah. No worries. If you’re happy with that.
AlP: I had a fall this morning. Not a major one but I skinned my toe.
AdP: Oh bugger.
Other: Alan, can you tell us where we are?
AlP: Where we are? Yes. We’re in my room in Fairview Homes at Fairview Village. And in Warragul.
Other: Well done. And what’s today’s date?
AlP: Today’s date is Saturday the 25th of January.
Other: Oh will we change the January bit?
AlP: Yeah. I’ve just been talking about January. I’m sorry. January 1943 I’ve been talking about. Let’s call it June.
Other: Alright. Good. And what season would that be?
AlP: What season?
AdP: That’s going to confuse him to.
AlP: It’s as cold as it could be. It must be winter.
AdP: We’re just talking about on the boat. On the way from Australia to the US when it was summer in Australia and then it was getting cold and they couldn’t figure out why. That’s literally what we were talking about as you walked through the door.
Other: Oh and so here I am. There’s no doubt here why it’s cold.
AdP: No.
AlP: No doubt here.
The sun is too far away from us.
AlP: Yeah.
Other: Now.
AlP: Yeah.
Other: You forget that sort of travel where you actually experience the changes as you go.
AdP: That’s right.
Other: Whereas you now get teleported from one side to the other and bang you’ve gone from summer to winter.
AdP: Well if you imagine the heat on this ship.
Other: Of course.
AlP: The heat of — the heat of January.
Other: Yeah.
AlP: The heat of January.
Other: Yes.
AlP: And the ship was heading in a southerly direction. We couldn’t understand why. Well we were dodging enemy, enemy shipping.
Other: Ok yeah. Yeah.
AlP: So we went right south of New Zealand.
Other: Yes.
AlP: And then gradually ending up towards America.
[Background chat and blood pressure checks etc]
Other: Well, it’s obviously an exciting story because your blood pressure is up a bit.
AlP: That’s right. I hope the blood pressure is down a bit. Not too far down though.
Other: No. Up a bit Alan. Up a bit.
AlP: Is it?
Other: Yes. It is.
AlP: Probably it’s because I’m excited talking to my friend.
Other: Yeah. That’s what I mean. Yeah. It’s all good.
AlP: It’s not every day I have a microphone pinned on me.
AdP: No.
Other: Adam are you doing this for your studies?
AdP: It’s a project for a group called the International Bomber Command Centre in the UK.
Other: Oh right.
AdP: They’re developing a digital archive of oral histories and scans of photos and logbooks and all that sort of stuff.
Other: So you’re an historian.
AdP: I’m not an historian. I’m actually an air traffic controller. But that’s another story. But deeply interested in the Bomber Command sort of idea and they got very excited when they found out that I lived in Melbourne because they said, ‘We don’t have an interviewer in Melbourne yet.’ So now I’ve done twenty three of them.
Other: Oh wow. So you would have heard some extraordinary stories.
AdP: There are some astonishing stories out there.
AlP: Oh yes.
Other: My, this gets a bit convoluted but it’s my sister’s father in law so my brother in law’s father. Whichever way you’d like to look at it. He was, well he not a commander. Who sits in the tail? A navigator?
AdP: The tail gunner sits in the tail.
AlP: Tail gunner.
AdP: Rear gunner.
Other: So he was a tail gunner. And in, is it G for George?
AlP: G-George yes that’s the famous.
Other: Yeah. That’s right. Because they restored it.
AdP: Yes.
Other: And he was the tail gunner for —
AdP: Very good.
Other: Yeah. So unusual in the fact that he could tell the story. That’s not so usual.
[interview resumes]
AdP: Where were we? We were zigzagging. It was getting colder.
AlP: It was getting colder. We came up and we stopped and we soon learned from word of gossip that we were at Pago Pago. Refuelling. Pago Pago was part of the port of Samoa. A Samoan port. Samoan America. American Samoa I should say. Samoa is an independent nation. It was a British colony. Part of it was American. Two islands. The second island was Pago Pago. So we were refuelling there so we realised we’d been south of New Zealand. Up here and we were now into the mid-Pacific. And we zigzagged all the way across there until we arrived in California another two and a bit weeks later having only once been alarmed that there was, could be enemy shipping around. Because as Japan was in the war they had a number of submarines known to be in The Pacific. And Germany had, from the beginning of the war and around the Australian coast even and sunk a lot of allied shipping with their raiders. Their war ships disguised as, as traders. Trading boats. Very humble trading boats. They were, they had, one of their bases was on the island of Goa which, the Portuguese positions off the coast, off the west coast of India. There’s a great story about that. About how [pause] oh it’s not my story. So we, we got through safely and landed there and went on to an American base, military base and stayed there for three days before we were entrained then to go up to, up to the east — west coast of California. Up into the next two states to the edge. To the border of Canada. Vancouver. To the city of Vancouver. That’s at the — British [pause] sorry. I’m trying to think it was the province of Canada it’s [pause] Never mind. Anyway, Vancouver was the city where we left the American train which was luxury. We’d had black American staff cleaning our shoes each day. Not that they got dirty because there was nowhere to walk. We stayed on the train all that time. We then entrained across to, across Canada on Canadian National Railway I think it was. On our way to drop off the bomb aimers, the wireless operators who would be trained at Calgary. At Calgary, we changed trains and headed north to Edmonton. Still in Alberta. The southern, the province of Alberta where we navs and bomb aimers were to do our training at Number 2 Air Observers School. 96 Course, Edmonton, Alberta. That took us a couple more days to get there. Big state. Big states those, those provinces. And that’s where we started in. By this time I guess we were to February, and perhaps late January and where ever we looked from the time we got out towards Calgary it was snow. There was snow. On top of that at Calgary there was more snow. It was snow from one region to another. There was snow for the next three months. How, we thought, can you learn to navigate over snow? There was nothing else, we thought, to be seen. Certainly not from the train. That was the reaction. Is that useful or not?
AdP: That was very useful. I like it. Ok. So how did you learn to navigate over snow, is the obvious question?
AlP: That was a good one. Well. Yes. We were now part of the Empire Air Training Scheme of course. We’d known a little about this in our, in our indoctrination. Here we gathered together with New Zealanders, with Canadians, with Brits who’d been sent over from Britain to Canada for their navigation training and their ITS. So we were all, we thought there would all be a bunch of eighteen years olds but we weren’t. There were fellows who were Australians in our, among ours number, we learned this on-board ship, who had been in the Middle East. In the army. In the AIF. And they had re-enlisted in the air force. They wanted to fly. There were new Zealanders also of the same category who’d been away. And they were, some of them were of a commissioned rank. And they were reduced to working with us AC2s. By this time we were LACs by the way. By the time we’d graduated from ITS we were promoted to LAC. Leading aircraftsmen. Interesting thing about the New Zealanders, by the way we all wanted to keep our own uniforms and our uniform being dark blue uniforms stood out like dog’s hind legs and but the New Zealanders they kept theirs too. Canadian kept theirs. And the British of course had the original. But the New Zealanders kept their rank as they were training. As did the Australians. Now, the Australians, their rank was a military rank. Whether they were lieutenants or captain or what. I don’t think they’d be any higher than a captain. They lost their, temporarily lost their rank but it was being held for them for when they graduated. If they didn’t graduate I suppose they’d still get it back. The New Zealanders kept their rank right through and they ate with the officer’s in the officer’s mess which didn’t worry us too much I suppose. So we started in a pretty luxurious kind of a station compared to what we’d been used to in ITS. We had real beds and sheets. We had our own shower rooms and so on. And then, and the sports facilities were very good. And being winter there was an ice rink. That was the tennis courts were covered over and the, and we were able to learn to, learn to skate. I’m not sure whether that was part of our training or part of our recreation. Studying we moved in to refreshments of stuff we learned at ITS. Then quickly moved into navigation and bomb aiming and the learning of the principals and the use. How we used the mathematics into, into our study now of the navigation in reality. It would include, by the way, astro navigation. So we were doing night flying as well as day. Day flying. So we used our maths, particularly the trigonometry for understanding triangulation which you need to, to navigate. You get, you need three points of reference and whether you are on the land or whether you’re land based with your, with your map reading. Or we learned map reading of course as a very basic principle. But to navigate you need three points of reference and you draw a line from those and where those three lines intersect is where you are on the land. Same principle when you’re doing astro navigation except you’re looking upwards rather than downwards. We didn’t have any radar there. We had, of course we had Morse code for the wireless operators to work on. I think we, I think we must have had staff wireless operators. We had staff pilots because there was no pilot training at Edmonton. Certainly had staff pilots. And they took us on their chosen pre-selected courses. A cross-country programme using a triangular one. We even, despite the snow, we did find points of reference. They were often wheat silos that could be identified from reference material that we had. There was a vast amount of wheat produced in Western Canada. Middle of Canada as well. We did a lot more practicals. Practical stuff on, on the ground in a simulated flight condition. A room set up with your desk and your implements which included [pause] straight, a straight rule. This is metric, metric by now. No. It wasn’t. No. No, it wasn’t. A ruler. A compass. A thing we called a computer which was actually a box, rectangular box with whatever inside. We didn’t ever know. But you pressed buttons and pulled levers and that showed on a screen where we were from the references we’d taken from this map reading or this site. Site thing. Of course I didn’t mention the, the [pause] instrument we used for photographing the stars.
AdP: Sextant.
AlP: Yes. The pause] what did you say?
AdP: A sextant maybe.
AlP: The sextant. The sextant of course, yes, the sextant. And we had a series of maps of course and we had, with our log book beside us and from here, from — the principle was that we read off our positions by taking into consideration wind velocity and direction. And which is, I think to say the direction is part of it. No it’s not. And our plotted course and see the variation. The difference between our course as to whether we instructed the pilot to fly and the actual track which we were to follow. So if, depending on the strength of the, of the velocity of the, of the wind we would allow a certain number of degrees to port or starboard of the one plotted on the track so that the wind would take us back and relocate us on, on course. When we say on course we really meant on track. And of course because there was an interval between the different readings of these sites we we’d seen on the map. The reference points. We had to plot our airspeed. Or what we believed was our ground and what we believed was our ground speed along the, along the track to make the appropriate adjustments and then still plan to be within three minutes of the, of ETA. Estimated time of arrival at the given point that we were on track for. So that, when the, in the Avro Anson was not very difficult because it wasn’t a very speedy. We travelled around about a hundred and forty, a hundred and fifty knots. I think. I don’t know. Do you know any better than that Adam?
AdP: That sounds about, about reasonable I think.
AlP: Yeah.
AdP: Something like that.
AlP: Yeah. So of course that became a bit easier in some respects. The ground was daylight flying as the snow melted. And it melted quite quickly. To our amazement.
[someone enters the room — recording paused]
AdP: Where weren’t we? The snow. The melting snow.
AlP: Yes. Melting snow. So the time was going past very quickly. Our bomb aiming testing was being, would also be included. Then again decided completely whether we’d all be, which of us would be navigators or bomb aimers. But that there was a chosen aiming point sometimes was connected with this exercise. Flying a navigation exercise. Sometimes just straight out from base. We dropped flour bombs would you believe? Twenty five pound flour bombs. And they, why they used flour because? Well they would break of course but they would leave a mark and that mark could be measured by ground staff from the point of, from the aiming point. The distance from the aiming point. And we were qualified. We were marked if you like by that, by our score on how close we were to that aiming point. That’s about all we did. Whether we did that at the end of an exercise. A navigation exercise or separately. It did vary. With, with astro navigation we did a lot more study. We had to night study in that. Because the earth is continually moving on its orbit and in relation to the rest of the stars of the firmament and the, and the various, and the North Star in particular varies. I think there’s four degrees in a year. Let me get this right. Four degrees either way of the North Pole. The North Pole is not strictly north anyway. And we were given logbooks. Remember the logarithm books you had at school? We were given those. That sort of book. And they made it, gave every, the relationship of every major star and the North Star and earth at any minute of the hour of the day in a particular month. I think, I think it’s as accurate as I can give it. But every day you saw something different. So we’d be out on a Monday night, for instance, out in the, in the airfields with our sextants and shooting three stars. The North Star first. Another one would be [pause] oh golly. Let me think of this a moment. The constellations I can remember clearly in view in my mind’s eye including the one we see here as the pot. It’s the only one that can be seen. The north ones we can see from here.
AdP: That’s right.
AlP: Anyway, we’d see two other stars. One to our north. North east and another perhaps to our south east of us or south west. And, and take the reading off the sextant and then plot. Plot it and then on across a map of our territory, of northern Canada. And then two minutes later plot one of the other ones. Plot that across the map. And I’m blowed if I can remember now where the third one — how, how we used that little log book to to tell us where we were exactly. You’ll have to go back to your friends with all the navigation equipment.
AdP: Yes.
AlP: He’ll tell you. It just escapes my mind. You know, we learned that. We spent weeks of that in the latter part of our course in, in Edmonton because it was going to be important in Europe we thought. So it was told. And we did our night flying and with, with that sextant again out through the blister on top of the Avro Anson. We had, we had a better and more modern sextant, a sextant. It plotted sixty shots in a minute. It took sixty shots and when we plotted it, plotted the average of that on to our chart I can remember doing that. But when we did flying and the aircraft was moving you don’t get a perfect cross. So you can try and get a cross like that and how big it is or how small it is depends on the weather. How much you’ve being buffeted by the wind. So it was a bit haphazard. We, so we, this took us now well into June and we had our examinations in June. I finished up in hospital just about the time of the examination. I’d had an accident. Not a flying accident. An accident on the ground and injured my leg and I was admitted for a few days. So I had a little bit of extra time to study. Went through, did our exams and came the time of graduation. A party was held. It was great. We’d been saving up the liquor, the alcohol, for some weeks. And I didn’t drink. Those who did didn’t need it evidently. So the party was held and we had friends in Edmonton that we invited and came but the graduation ceremony was before that. I had some photos of all the graduates and I’ve lost them since my wife died and we closed up our house. Sold our house. And I don’t know where those things, some of those things went. Anyway, I graduated as a navigator with an N wing and sergeant’s stripes. Two or three of our team, of our course graduated as pilot officers. Maybe. Maybe more than three. They were the ones who got the best marks in the course. In the written course I guess and their performances over their charts. Their charts were all examined at the end of your flights and you were marked on those too, no doubt. So I was ready to leave Canada as a sergeant navigator. A week later we were, went by train to Toronto and down to New York for some furlough. Some leave. A week in New York. In New Jersey where we were hosted by American people. Great fun. Great time. We were robbed by taxi drivers. We were travelling in a group in a taxi. Charged each one for the fare on the meter, lousy. That was the only bad thing I’ve got to say. Climbed. Climbed the Empire Building. Empire [pause] what’s it called?
AdP: Empire State Building.
AlP: Empire State Building. Taken up there on the lift. Got taken up in the actual head of the Statue of Liberty. Climbed the ladders inside that. These were privileges. Really great. Then at the end of that time we went back by train. Back down to Halifax in, what’s the state? What’s the province?
AdP: Nova Scotia. Nova Scotia.
AlP: Nova Scotia. That’s right.
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: Down to Nova Scotia. On board a big ship. A very big ship. A lot of troops. A lot of American troops and a few, quite a few Empire Air State, Empire Air Training people from different places. Courses terminating about that time. And we zig zagged across the North Atlantic to arrive in, by this was summertime now of course. July. August. It was, it was early August we arrived in, at Liverpool in Manchester. Near Manchester of course. And from Liverpool bussed across to a holding station called Padgate. Well known. It’s a suburb. Quite a big suburb of Manchester. A Mancunian friend of mine knows it well. We were there for two weeks. No. We were there for one week. Why would they hold us here for? We want to get to the war. We’re here for the war. We were trained. We were quite excited. We didn’t see any effects of the war yet. And then we were summoned and entrained to go down to London. That’s when we saw the effects of the war. It was appalling. We, it’s quite a long journey from, from Manchester to London and we passed through a lot of towns. Saw some damage. But London. The thing is, that grieved us most there was, it still brings tears to my eyes. We weren’t going to stay in London. London we were only passing through. We were going to Victoria Station to go down to Brighton, and every station we passed through on the underground there was lined along double decker bunks. On every platform of every station. People bombed out. We had seen a little of the bomb damage at Euston. Was it Euston Station? I think it was where we embarked. Where we disembarked we saw a bit of damage there but by the time we got in to [pause] to Victoria we saw a lot more outside. Above ground. Down to Brighton. Down there for two weeks. Why? Holding us there at the two hotels. The [pause] Royal and the, I forget what it was. Air force property, RAF property for the duration of the war. And there was some damage in Brighton. There was some damage in most places I guess. We, the Blitz was long since over but the V1s were about. And we could go up and sit on the top deck of the, of the hotels, and we did this, watching the V1s go over, the buzz bombs, filling in time, filling in time. Eventually we got told to go on leave in London. Somewhere we could go on leave and I chose to go to London. I wanted to see more of the damage. I wanted to see St Paul’s. I wanted to see all those things that we’d learned about at school. And then I saw the damage, extensive damage around St Paul’s. Man. And, and along the river. Well, we took off. We were entrained after that two weeks to go up to north east England. Up to [pause] to do a commando course. Again, we were saying, some of us we were together from Somers, still together, quite a few of us. And what are we doing here? This commando course. The town, I can’t think of the name of the town but it was a town. It had a lot of damage as well but the air force had taken over quite a bit of it for accommodation for the commando training and other army uses as well. We got halfway through that course and we were called back and they said, ‘You’re leaving tomorrow and you’re flying. You’re going across to North Wales.’ So can you imagine? Manchester, London, Brighton, up here to North England and across here. A triangle. I used a triangle for navigation. And there we went back, back on to a little place called Llandwrog. Got to say it properly —L L A N D W R O G. Welsh town. Welsh township nearby. This air force station again had Avro Ansons and it was an Advanced Flying Unit. AFU. And we had to do a refresher on what we had. All our flying, navigation flying in, in Edmonton, but much compressed. Started off with day flying and, and map reading. That was easy enough. And even, even reading day flying using points of reference because there were so many of them in the North West Wales, North Wales and the Western England. Manchester, Lancaster, Lancashire and those, those counties. And I’m not sure, I don’t think I did any astro there. Three weeks or four weeks there and we were, we were discharged if you like. Taken out of there, going to Number 17 OTU. Operational Training Unit of course. Now where was that? [pause] It was in the north, in the Midlands. I can’t think where it is but you’d find it easy enough.
AdP: 17 OTU is it?
AlP: 17 OTU.
AdP: I can’t remember off the top of my head.
AlP: And there we, we met a lot of Canadians, Americans, sorry Brits, more Australians, Kiwis and so on. And the day after we arrived, like two days after we arrived we were told to gather at, our group anyway, we were told to gather at such and such a hangar. Went over to the hangar there. A crowd of blokes around there, and quite a lot of Australians. They said, ‘You can find yourself a crew there. Pilots have a look. Have a look around you pilots and see if you can find yourself a crew.’ That’s how, and that’s how we were mustered, gathered there. We picked out. An Australian bloke came over to me and he said, ‘Have you got anyone to fly with? Have you got a pilot to go with?’ I said, ‘Not yet. I’ve only just arrived.’ He said, ‘Where were you trained?’ I told him where. He said, ‘Are you alright?’ ‘Yeah,’ I said, ‘I’m alright I think. I got very strong marks.’ ‘Would you like to join me?’ I said, ‘Ok. Yeah. Thanks.’ So then he gathered his bomb aimer and his wireless operator and two gunners just likewise, six crew. So we started flying in a couple of days time and we were told, and it was lousy weather even though it was now September. It was lousy weather. We were told to, not to fly if we caught a cold. Too many people were catching cold. Our crew were dead keen. We wanted to get ahead and I caught a cold. And so stupid me. And my ears blew out. One ear did. My right ear blew out. It was so painful it was awful and I got deafened. And of course had to report sick and I was grounded. Grounded for six weeks. I said goodbye to my crew, they gathered another navigator. They moved on. So six weeks. I don’t know what I did. I don’t remember what I did. I just floated around at that time. Reporting sick, reported until I was well enough and there was another mustering of trainees at the hangar. And I gathered. I gathered. I was summoned to gather with them and an Englishmen, tall Englishmen named Johnny Bulling, Flight lieutenant, approached me. I thought, flight lieutenant? He must be good. He must have a lot of experience. And I said, ‘Yes, sir.’ He said, ‘You can drop the sir.’ He said, ‘Have you crewed up yet?’ I said, ‘Not yet sir. I’ve been on a crew. I’ve done some flying but I was grounded through a bit of illness.’ He said, ‘Want to join me?’ I said, ‘Thank you.’ And that’s how he gathered his crew. Jock someone or other. I’m trying to think of his surname — pilot officer bomb aimer. He gathered him in. Bernie Alden Hogan, Australian sergeant wireless operator or air gunner, gathered him in. And then two Londoners, Ernie, no, not Ernie. Peter and [pause] who was the other one? I can’t think of his name. The other one was about thirty years of age. He was much the older of our crew. They gathered. We gathered them in. And the next day we were doing circuits and bumps in a, on a Wimpy. And that’s how our crew started.
AdP: What did you think of a Wellington?
AlP: Pardon?
AdP: What did you think of the Wellington?
AlP: I thought it was a lovely big aircraft. That’s what I thought at that time. I had heard bad stories about it. But it was a bit cramped in my space but what I started to learn was that funny instrument. It looked like, I was going to say, with a small TV but it was a small screen. What was that? It was called a Gee. What that’s about? That’s when I started to learn about the Gee navigation. And the other one there was the one with the [pause] that transmitted a signal and brought back another picture of the land underneath. Well that was wonderful. It makes it a lot easier to do your map reading. Except you couldn’t use it over enemy territory because it transmitted a signal and you, you were a sitting duck. So, but it was handy once you got back to, back home base. And then we started to learn Gee navigation and I loved it. It was great stuff. I mean you could, you plotted these three signals. Do you understand it at all Adam?
AdP: Only, only very vaguely.
AlP: Well it has three transmitters. One in the southernmost England, one in the Midlands and one in the north.
[recording paused for lunch]
AdP: So we’re resuming after lunch. We were talking about Gee I think.
AlP: On reflection Adam I think we might have been introduced to it over at Llandwrog. At AFU. Just introduced so that we knew that there was more to it than we’d been doing in Canada. There was no mention that we were doing any astro navigation. So when we got to OTU and went out with my first crew and then, of course after I was grounded, my second crew. Six weeks interval is a long time in a war. In an air war anyway and I mean think of the time that was wasted by the time we landed. It probably amounted to about twelve, fourteen weeks lost battle time if you like. Lost purpose time. Anyway, I guess we did strengthen our muscles a little bit with our course of body training at commando course. So, I’m with my second crew now. Johnny Bulling’s crew and we were given a lot of a programme ahead, a lot of cross country flying. Incidentally, I should remember about 17 OTU. I can’t think of the name of the station. The satellite station was Silverstone. Now, Silverstone has since been a motor raceway for many decades. So if you find out what county Silverstone’s in, Silverstone Raceway, you’ll find where Number 17 OTU is and what county. I have a feeling it might be Lincolnshire, but no I’m not sure really. So then it was, by this time it was October. Weather’s getting bad, quite bad. We were flying in rotten conditions. Wind, rain, sleet and snow. So on. And we finished at OTU. Actually by this time we’d moved over to the satellite. I don’t know why that happened. Anyway, we did. And we were sent on leave. Sent on leave. Six weeks. Six days I think. So Johnny said, ‘What you are going to do?’ I said, ‘I don’t know. What do you reckon?’ He said, ‘If you’d like to come over we can go to Devon and get warm because this is shocking, this stuff.’ I said, ‘Right we will.’ So we went off on leave. I went off with him and the other Englishmen went off to their home places no doubt, and Jock the Scotsman. And I don’t know what Bernie did. I think he had a girlfriend somewhere. And so we went to London. We said we’ll stay over in London for a night. Go to a show. So we, we, got digs, a room, a room in somewhere out at Earl’s Court, which is West End. And spent the night there and that night I bounced out of bed. I remember clearly I landed on the floor. ‘What’s wrong?’ A V1, V2 — the second rocket. The long ones, the big self-propelled, landed. Sent out from the coast of Normandy and landed into London. They sent, they sent hundreds of those. This is, this is the successor to the V2s which were less efficient, still pretty nasty. And it landed not far from us evidently and it was a heck of an explosion and it bounced me out of bed. So, I don’t think I slept any more that night waiting for the next lot to come. Fortunately that landed in the Thames somewhere. I can’t imagine which direction it came from. Anyway it was said many of those V2 rockets landed in less serious or less serious targets than the Germans hoped. The next day we headed south, down. Took the train down to Devon and we stayed there at a — walked and looked up the street. Walked up the street. Found a hotel. Found we could get a room there and we stayed there for six days. Swimming on the coast down at the beach. Actually that afternoon we stripped off. Johnny put on, put on civilian pants and I didn’t have any civilian pants but I had my spare uniform pants so I didn’t worry about it. Went down and laid down on the beach and did a bit of sunbathing. The tide came in on us. We got wet but anyway we worked that out in the night. The next day we went walking. We did a lot of walking that week. It was excellent. I’ve written a story about our encounter with a land, a groundsman, who caught us walking through these fields. He was [pause] we were heading back in late afternoon, heading back to the hotel in the township. And we were running a bit late. We had walked a bit too far and we were walking and this fellow came around the corner behind a hedge with a shotgun cocked over his arm and he said, ‘What be thee doing?’ Well, we got a shock you see. And we said, oh Johnny said, ‘We’re just walking back to our hotel. We’re on leave.’ I don’t think we were in uniform. We were probably only in trousers and shirt. It was lovely weather. Beautiful. And he said, ‘Well thee can’t be doing that here. Now get thee off this land.’ And I got cheeky. I said, ‘Why? We aren’t doing any harm. We’re only going to walk in a straight line. It’s too round about on the road. We get back quicker this way. In time for dinner.’ ‘I don’t care what thee be thinking. Get thee off this land.’ I said, ‘Who said we should get off this land.’ ‘This be my lord’s land. Now get thee off.’ And we did. We did. Very, very belligerent he was. But I thought well if they can be that belligerent as civilians we should win this war.
AdP: [laughs] Love it.
AlP: So we returned to our given destination which was 1661 HCU at a place called Winthorpe. Do you know it?
AdP: I do.
AlP: You know I lay awake for an hour last night trying to think of that.
AdP: Oh dear.
AlP: I did. Winthorpe. I thought of all sorts. Winthorne? No that doesn’t sound not right. What sort of –? And I think that’s, what county’s that in? Can you remember?
AdP: It’s near Newark.
AlP: Near Newark is it?
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: New Castle.
AdP: Nottinghamshire maybe. I don’t know.
AlP: New Castle.
AdP: I’ve no idea.
AlP: That’s the castle that’s on one of the brands of cigarettes. So there we were. We lined up there and I saw my first Lancaster.
AdP: What did you think the first time you saw a Lancaster?
AlP: Wow. What a machine. I still think of it. I saw it in London a couple of, four years ago. Saw it in Canberra again. G for George. I don’t know. So we did circuits and bumps the next day and Johnny hadn’t, I think he’d seen them before but he hadn’t flown them before. So we went around and around around and around. I was sure we had to swing the prop for that for the, for the compass. I don’t think. I think it was an advanced compass. Anyway, we got inside it and I thought it looked, it was massively crammed, my gee it was cramped. And I was overwhelmed again. ‘Am I responsible for this aircraft? Am I? Have I got the authority on this wonderful machine?’ I was, even now I’m enthralled and we set off to do circuits and bumps and then did our position. Got filled in with our positions on the aircraft to — we added another member here by the way. This was when Peter Smith came in, went to our crew as air [pause] well virtually co-pilot but he was called —
AdP: Flight engineer.
AlP: What was he called?
AdP: Flight engineer.
AlP: Engineer. Flight engineer, Flight engineer, that’s right. We had slightly different positions. I was sitting right behind the pilot as the navigator and the wireless op behind. Funny thing in our crew, you know. We were the two Australians but we weren’t good buddies. I don’t know why but he was less than friendly but he was co-operative and we had to work a lot together. But Jock, the Scotsman, the co-pilot, the err the bomb aimer, he was very co- operative. The air gunners were wonderful young blokes. Johnny and I got on very well. I must tell you. Go back to when we were in London. We were walking along the street together. Along Fleet Street actually up from Australia House. I went to see if there was any mail for me. The mail was sometimes delayed as we were moving around. And walking along and we were stopped by a corporal with a service policeman arm band, ‘Excuse me sir,’ he said to Johnny, ignoring me, ‘It is not permissible for an NCO to walk with a commissioned officer.’ And I was ready to explode. And Johnny said, ‘Quite right corporal. You are quite right. Flight Sergeant Pugh you will fall in behind and at my command we will quick march. Quick march.’ So we walked up Fleet Street marching. He did it. He did it. We got around the corner and stopped it. Wondered what people thought of these stupid fellas. We can’t win a war with these sort of fellows. Anyway, we were —that was just one digression. He was a good artist. He used to do portraits and he was excellent. He did, he did a book of illustrations for his job, his profession. And we used to write. Write poems together. Write songs together. Make up songs as we were going along. We saw one fellow come along the street that day. A little civilian in some sort of a suit. He had a tiny moustache like a toothbrush, and he held his head upright. And Johnny said, ‘There’s that fellow that looks like he’s got a smell under his nose. And I said, there was current song then, “I’ll walk alone.” I don’t know if you know that song, “I’ll walk alone”, a war song anyway. And so we, and we added the lines as we walked, “I’ll walk alone because even my best friends won’t tell me, yet I know they could smell me. It seems I have BO. Oh yes I know. I’ll walk alone.”
[someone enters the room. Recording paused]
AdP: We were talking about, oh you were telling me the song about BO.
AlP: Oh yes. I’ll walk alone because even my best friends won’t tell me. Even though they could smell me. It seems I had BO. Oh yes I know. I’ll walk alone. Although though I try my own preparation. Still I smell like a station. Or like a zoo. What can I do? No one will come near me. And I wonder why. Sometimes I smell myself. I’ve no one to cheer me. So until I die I suppose I will always be on the shelf. I walk alone. I walked alone until somebody told me at last boy. Now at last I have a wife boy. I am not alone.” That was paraphrased on a song, “I walk alone until you come back from the war” and that sort of stuff. So it was pretty, pretty cheeky of us. And we did this walking along the street in London. No wonder they won the war. They wanted to get away from us. Are you still there Adam?
AdP: I’m still here. Certainly am. What other sorts of things did you get up to on leave?
AlP: On leave? Well we had dates with girls. We certainly did that. We found there’s a Cricklewood Palace somewhere out in North London. It was a very popular dance hall and whenever I was in London I’d go down there. I met a girl there and she was, I found her interesting and she worked in one of the big retail stores in London. One of the big names. And as I was working in Coles I was part of the Coles organisation. At that stage just an ordinary hand in a country town but going back to being in the management training plan. So she and I got friendly. And when I went down to London I’d pick her up and we’d go to a dance out there together. It was a very popular place but unfortunately one night a brawl broke out. We were a bunch of, I don’t know, a bunch of Brits and Australians and there was some, we were all in uniform and there was a brawl against some Americans. The Yanks of course were subject to being attacked. Sometimes they attacked some of us if we gave them any cheek. It was unfortunate. There were two wars going on. There were a lot of Americans in Britain at the time. Some back on leave, some back wounded, some ready to go out to the front again. They lost heavily in the war. But you know the biggest single unit loser in World War Two? [pause] Bomber Command. We lost more men and crews in proportion to our numbers. I think, I think it was there were a hundred and twenty five thousand members of Bomber Command. That might have included ground staff, I’m not sure. You might be able to check.
AdP: No. That’s aircrew.
AlP: That’s aircrew.
AdP: Aircrew only. Yeah.
AlP: I’ve heard of fifty two [pause] fifty two thousand. Fifty five thousand perished. There were ten thousand Australians among those. And four thousand, no four hundred, no. Wait a minute, four thousand two hundred of us didn’t return, so that’s forty two percent. Fifty five percent was the loss ratio for the, it might have been less than fifty five out of a hundred and twenty five. Over fifty percent anyway. We were the biggest losers in proportion. What else did we do on leave? We cycled. We went on, went on trips up to the Lake District. Things like that. Sometimes together as two or three of us. Sometimes alone. Met a lot of interesting people when you go with your peers. Played tennis when we could. Played cricket when we could. I went to the first test match after the war. We’ll talk about it a bit later. But you ask a question.
AdP: Where did you — where and how did you live on the stations?
AlP: We lived in Nissen huts mostly. They were comfortable. We had blankets. Didn’t have sheets. That I can recall anyway. The ablution huts were commodious. We had sports facilities there and of course there was, we could, there was no drill required of us unless we misbehaved. Once we were in combat mode. But we, we had the sergeant’s mess of course and the officer’s mess. We, we made friends across, across the barriers of nation. You know we had English friends, New Zealand friends, even though they weren’t necessarily of our own crew. But Johnny and I and our crew often went out as a group to a pub, and say outside Newark for instance. As a full crew there at one of the pubs in Newark. I remember one day, one night we were there and sitting on the hob beside the fire in the, in the bar were two old gentlemen in uniform. In the red jacket of the Chelsea Pensioners. Do you know about the Chelsea Pensioners? They were down in London. North London. Is Chelsea in North London? I’m not sure. But anyway there’s a Chelsea Pension House and old, some, how they qualify to get in I don’t know but former servicemen from World War One inhabited that place. And they could travel around the countryside if they were fit but you’d often see them in London walking in the city. Anyway, these two fellows were sitting there, sitting there by the hob of the fire with the half pot in their hand and a poker in this hand, poking the fire. Loud hissing. And drink their warmed beer, warm mild, not bitter, mild. And so Johnny photographed one of them. Not photographed, he drew one of them. He always carried a pad in his jacket pocket.
AdP: Oh wow.
AlP: And oh it was, it was so good. And so he would, we’d go to other places and he would do drawings. Artistic. Artistic work. I lost track of him, I lost track of my whole crew. I’m sorry about that. Yes. There were plenty of dances in the villages and towns as well and pubs were very popular.
AdP: What, what sorts of things happened in pubs apart from Chelsea pensioners with their pokers?
AlP: Well [laughs] you didn’t see many of those. Well, sometimes there were disputes, a little too much drink. There was a tendency among aircrews to live now for tomorrow we may die. We weren’t like that. And we weren’t total abstainers by any means. But we were [pause] we had our eyes on the future. It was said and I think Bernie, the other Australian in the crew, he spent less time with us in, on leave than anyone else did. Jock was a little bit heavy on the whisky. He loved his whisky but he was a Scotsman. He was probably brought up on the stuff. We didn’t see a lot of offensive drunkenness. It sometimes happened in the mess. A bit of disputing went on. I’m not sure why. It’s too far back to remember.
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: Motivations. Anyway.
AdP: What — you’ve mentioned earlier briefly that you did one operation.
AlP: Yeah. That came —
AdP: Tell me about that.
AlP: Well that’s coming up shortly.
AdP: Alright.
AlP: We was looking forward to linking up, I think the squadron that was on, co-habited our airport — airfield was 217. An English squadron. You might check that. I’ve got a feeling it’s the, we were certainly I wasn’t going to be in one of the Australian squadrons. Incidentally did you know that the Australian squadrons were not as self-governed as the Canadian Squadron?
AdP: Yes.
AlP: You knew that.
AdP: Yes.
AlP: That was a pity. I wonder why. Anyway, that’s beside the point. So we, we had a series of cross-country’s to do. Much the same as AFU. OTU rather. But we were across to the Irish Sea. Out a bit to the, into the North Atlantic. Sometimes down to Scotland and that way. Sometimes. And up The Channel. But never, never in to enemy occupied territory. But to be looking, what I was looking forward to was the forthcoming and necessary bullseye over London. Have you heard about that?
AdP: Yes. Yeah. Tell us. Tell us more about it.
AlP: Well, we were to go out on this exercise over to the Irish Sea. Up, out again to the North Atlantic to points of, no points of vision, just points on the, on the radar. Out and then across towards the Bay of Biscay and then to another focal, another point of time and place. And then over the coast, south coast of England, not far from Brighton and Hove. More nearer Hove. And it was a given ETA at each point. As we were flying out over the Midlands and out towards Ireland I asked Bernie for, for a position. He said, ‘I’m in a mess here.’ I looked around and he’s got his radio in pieces. He said, ‘Something’s melted here.’ And so I reported it to skipper. Skipper said, ‘Shall we? Shall we continue? Do you want to continue navigator?’ We were all very formal in the air. I said, ‘What do you think Bernie?’ He said, ‘Give me a little while. See if I can get it together.’ So we got out almost to the west coast of England and he said, ‘I can’t do it.’ So the skipper said, ‘How’s your, how’s your Gee box?’ I said, ‘It’s working fine skipper. It’s ok.’ He said, ‘What about H2S?’ That’s the one with the picture on it. Bringing the picture up from the ground. I said, ‘Yeah. It’s fine. Is fine.’ He said, ‘Well we can’t use it too close over the water.’ I said, ‘No. I realise that. It would only show you lots of waves.’ I said, ‘We’re alright on the Gee. It’s ok.’ ‘What’s your recommendation?’ I took a deep breath. I said, ‘I suggest we proceed and we’ll go by dead reckoning.’ ‘DR it is then.’ And then we took it, we arrived at a point out in the Irish Sea. Hopefully, it was the one we wanted. I was confident on my charts that it was and I gave him the change of course. And the weather was good. Not a lot of heavy wind. We were flying at eighteen thousand. Sixteen or eighteen thousand and it can be tricky up there. It can be quite different from down low. It can be quite contrary in fact. So, anyway, we went down below in due course, another hour and a half or something. Maybe two hours. I’ve forgotten now. The next point out in the middle of the Atlantic you see because nowhere else could be seen anywhere. Everyone reported water. Water. So my ETA was, was accurate I felt. And so we headed off towards the Bay of Biscay. This might be different. And anyway it turned out almost flying due east. Two seventy to that point. Turned again. Now was the test. We were on ETA down to the coast of England near, as I said, near Hove. ‘See the coastline?’ ‘Yes. I can see the coastline.’ Surely took bearing on the actual physical bearing, visual bearing on the point where you expected to cross and we were within the three minutes of ETA after flying for, I think it was five hours. What a sigh of relief. So I let the skipper know all was well. The crew were relaxed. We had nothing other than dead reckoning. And then to London. Well, I don’t know whether we changed height but the London was to counteract the balloons which were always there and they were put up. The lights. Searchlights. And as we were getting towards south London we started to see the searchlights combing the sky. Quite a lot of them. And then we saw some fighters. We could see flashlights in there. There were fighters in the air and we had to dodge all this, get through to drop a photographic bomb if you know what I mean, over Green Park. The centre where the target of London. Right near Buckingham Palace. You know where it is? And we, so Johnny said, ‘Prepare for evasive action,’ and we started evasive action. Right. ‘Down to port,’ down we’d go port side. ‘Levelling out. Forward. Ahead fifteen thousand. Fourteen thousand. Climbing to starboard.’ This was yelling. We were all getting, we were all hearing this and this was anger. We were going to be five times G. Five gravity. Five times gravity, and we got through it. It was a magnificent experience but horrifying, but [unclear] was going up and down like this. And then up and down like this with a ,with somebody and we were dropped, Jock dropped his photo. Took his camera shots over the target and then returned to base. Thank heaven that was over. And that was as exciting as it was going to be I thought except until we were just called out to go out over enemy territory because those searchlights are horrifying. Terrifying. We were graded on that, I don’t know, I forgot the score but we did quite well evidently. Particularly as we did it without really navigation check-ups on the way. See my heart’s pounding already. It was a few days later we were called to join a squadron. I don’t know whether it was 217 or what. We were making, making a raid over Southern Germany. Now, you mentioned earlier that someone had done a raid over — your uncle?
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: Over Berchtesgaden.
AdP: Berchtesgaden. No.
AlP: Berchtesgaden.
AdP: That was another of my interview subjects. Yeah.
AlP: Oh was it?
AdP: Yeah.
AlP: Now I don’t know if it was there. It was somewhere over the southern Ruhr it was going to be I guess and the weather had turned foul. It was now. I’m trying to think back to my logbook because I’m so sorry I lost that. I think it must have been April. And so we loaded up, bombed up and gone through out processes ready for the real thing.
AdP: And you were in a Lancaster by this stage?
AlP: Yeah. The Lancaster.
AdP: Yes.
AlP: Oh yes. In a Lancaster. We were briefed. Had our charts in front of us. Taken to our separate briefings of course. We always were. And brought back as a crew for crew briefing. Then into line and we become part of an attack. I think probably a number of squadrons and their satellites like we were a satellite. And we flew up, up to a fictitious point at ten thousand feet somewhere over the North Sea, or maybe over Holland. Then a change of course on a very bad night. Not only a bad night. Pitch black. Pitch black night. No moon, which of course a moonlight night is too dangerous for a, for you being a target to stop. But it was nothing. It was bad weather. We changed course heading [pause] heading south from there with the somewhere about two, twenty three thirty degrees something like that. East. And southeast. At, to twenty thousand feet and then joined. We must have been, we must have had, but we acted independently because we joined a flight group there and then changed course for the target and then got the call back. We were trip aborted, and so we were out by this time. Out by about two hours I guess. And skipper took the, the bomb aimer, the wireless operator took the code message and passed it on to the skipper. It was a great disappointment. We were there. We were scared. We were dead scared. No doubt about that. It was going to be out first trip but there was no option. So I had to set a course to come back and I’ve forgotten — it was a deviate, a deviant course. And I think we were just sort of grieving this all the way back. And one thing we had overlooked or didn’t know. We should have been aware of. Even though we had IFF on our aircraft, all our aircraft. Identification Friend or Foe. What had been happening while the Luftwaffe attack force or defence force was much depleted they were still shooting down aircraft. They had new tactics. They were flying with their FW190s with guns, cannons pointing upwards. They’d fly under our aircraft going or returning from attacks, from bombing raids. There was one of the things they were doing. And even with depleted numbers they were successful. They were very fast with their 109s, ME109s of course. And there was rumours they had a faster one but the 190s were fast enough. But what they were doing was following and getting into, into returning groups. Flights and squadrons. By now a bit, perhaps being a bit careless and not looking out, the gunner, not a lot to look at. And they were picking off returning aircraft crossing The Channel. And so we were approaching a town and we could see the lights of home sort of thing. Some lights over in Britain. Then suddenly Peter, the rear gunner yelled out, ‘Skipper, there’s someone, there’s someone firing verey lights here. I’d better report.’ Johnny said, skipper said, ‘Well what are they? Green or red, rear gunner?’ ‘They’re white skipper.’ ‘White. There aren’t white verey lights. They’re not verey lights gunner, that’s tracer.’ We’ll scramble. And we did scramble and we avoided it. If they were tracer, if they were attack aircraft. I don’t know what else could they be? Johnny couldn’t think of anything else. We scrambled to another airfield. We got a message out. They lit up for us with searchlights. No. Not searchlights. Lights of the trucks and so on outlined the airfield. The airstrip. And the next day we flew back to base and we weren’t reprimanded. So then it wasn’t long after that came May the 6th. Or was it the 5th. Anyway, the word was getting around things were, things were but they were much more shorter trips. And they were, the attacks were along the, along, I think enemy ground forces. And we didn’t get another trip. Word came out Hitler had suicided. Then the word came out — Admiral Donitz was it became the vice chancellor? He took over and he surrendered. And our crew were told well actually you may now accept to disarm. Not disarmament. To [pause] you may return to civvy life. Demobilisation. And they just broke our crew up like that. The Australians — they sent us to a place called Worksop which was further over. Cambridgeshire way I think. And we were told that Australians, the Australians on our HSU, HCU I should say or were English squadrons. Navigators, probably navigators, bomb aimers, wireless operators taken to special school for a secret training school. Ours was training for navigation and we were to be retrained for the war against the Japanese. And so we were given leave then for a time. A few weeks. I think a fourteen day pass and we were able to go to London. We went on VE day. Actual VE day. We were in a vast crowd of troops and civilians of many nationalities. Air force, navy, military forces travelling from all corners around to Buckingham Palace. And I can remember walking up the [pause] what’s, what’s the big, big parade up into, up into Buckingham Palace. Anyway, up to the threshold of Buckingham Palace. And there were hundreds. Seemed to be hundreds of thousands of us all around Buckingham palace waiting for the king and queen and the two princesses to come out. We spent hours there cheering like mad, waving our flags and I looked around and there were so many air force uniforms with so many different badges on their shoulders. Not only us from the Commonwealth or from the Empire but there were pilots, and air gunners and all kinds. Ground staff. They were there too. From the European nations. Those that had managed to get out of Europe before Hitler had conquered their country and they were still able to fight on. So that was the end of that. And we went down to Worksop to do the study. And we were six weeks into the course and by this time now we were in to April/May. May/June/July. The, the war was weakening in in Southeast Asia. And then we got the word in early August, an atom bomb had been dropped. We heard that this atom bomb was going to be something in the future. We heard about this. Then we heard another one. We were still in the workshop in this place. In this school. And the message came Japan had surrendered. The end of the war. The Englishmen out of Bomber Command well certainly some of them might have been, stayed and been trained for going to Burma. But we were certainly not going there. And we were then equipped with paintbrushes and tools and anything to fill in our time on demolishing or painting or building at this station. Incidentally, we had already celebrated with a bunch of Australians the night before VE day at somewhere just near [pause] near the airfield. Near HCU anyway our 1661. The castle. Where the castle was. Anyway, they gave us leave again to report back to, back to Australian headquarters, Australia House and where we collected our pay book. [unclear] sorry. Again. And we got, our mail was gathered to there. And then they told us we could get, join a, join in a find a job. A civvy. [unclear] speech is getting [unclear] a civvy course. And I got a job in an [pause] a course. An office in a big factory in the Elephant and Castle. A big, big factory. And they were short of staff and that’s was nearly two months of pay, extra money. I was able to opt to be employed. I was living at the home. An Australian House place that they appointed for. Now my voice is going. My voice is going. And it was, wasn’t until November. Then again focus on another [pause]. Ship. A ship.
AdP: We might, we might leave it there. We’ve been going for a while now.
AlP: I’m sorry.
AdP: That’s alright.
AlP: I’m losing my [pause] Anyway, I trained, ship home. Home in January again. Again [unclear] away. With my family. Home. And I was back to my job. A month later. My home. Civvy job. Boy. It took a hard job getting over the same job. The home job. Home to my mum and dad with my bike. At work. Back to [unclear]. Leave it at that. You’re right. Adam.
AdP: That’s a good idea. So thank you very much. Shake your hand.
AlP: Thank you so much.
AdP: Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
APughA160625
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alan Pugh
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
02:12:20 audio recording
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Adam Purcell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-25
Description
An account of the resource
Alan was born in Western Victoria in Australia. After two years in the Air Training Corps, he asked to join the Royal Australian Air Force. He was selected to go to Somers No. 2 Initial Training School on No. 46 course. Alan chose to be a navigator/air observer. He was sent to No. 2 Air Observers’ School in Edmonton, Canada, as part of the Empire Air Training Scheme. Alan details the training he received in navigation and bomb aiming, including astronavigation. He describes his equipment and navigation in practice. After graduating as a sergeant navigator, he sailed to the UK.
After a holding station in Padgate, Alan went to Brighton. En route, he witnessed the devastating effects of war in London. He saw some V-1s in Brighton. He did a commando course in the North East before going to RAF Llandwrog, an Advanced Flying Unit. He learnt Gee and H2S navigation systems. Alan was posted to No. 17 Operational Training Unit on Wellingtons. Because of illness, he had to crew up a second time. The satellite station was at RAF Silverstone. Alan recounts some of his activities on leave.
Alan was posted to the 1661 Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Winthorpe where he first encountered Lancasters. A flight engineer was added to their crew.
Alan discusses the large losses of Bomber Command and also Australians.
He details a “bullseye” exercise to London when the radio malfunctioned and Alan had to navigate by dead reckoning. A few days later, they had to abort an attack on the Ruhr. They were almost hit from below on their return journey.
When Germany surrendered, the Australians were sent to RAF Worksop. Alan spent VE Day in London. After the atomic bomb on Japan, Alan briefly found a job in London before sailing back to Australia.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--London
Wales--Gwynedd
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Canada
Alberta
Alberta--Edmonton
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
17 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Observers School
aircrew
bombing
crewing up
fear
Gee
H2S
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
mess
military living conditions
navigator
Operational Training Unit
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Silverstone
RAF Turweston
RAF Winthorpe
RAF Worksop
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/191/3591/LOHaraHF655736v1.1.pdf
557abec419df40658803dece8c9dfd75
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
O'Hara, Herbert
Paddy O'Hara
H F O'Hara
Description
An account of the resource
59 items. The collection concerns the wartime career of Flight Sergeant Herbert Frederick O'Hara (1917 – 1968, 655736, 195482 Royal Air Force). Herbert O'Hara served on 12 Squadron at RAF Wickenby between February and May 1944. His aircraft was shot down over France in May 1944 and he evaded until he was liberated in September 1944. He was then commissioned. The collection contains service records and two logbooks, notification of him missing as well as correspondence from and photographs of French people who helped him evade. In addition there is an account of travelling across the Atlantic for flying training in Florida as well as notes from his aircrew officers course at RAF Credenhill. Finally there are a number of target and reconnaissance photographs and six paintings.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Brian O'Hara and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and IBCC staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
O'Hara, HF
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
France
Germany
Poland
Wales
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
France--Nord-Pas-de-Calais
France--Lyon
France--Mailly-le-Camp
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Friedrichshafen
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Stuttgart
Poland--Gdynia
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Title
A name given to the resource
Herbert O'Hara's South African Air Force observers or air gunners log book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LOHaraHF655736v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
South African Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1944-02-25
1944-02-26
1944-03-01
1944-03-02
1944-03-15
1944-03-16
1944-03-18
1944-03-19
1944-04-09
1944-04-10
1944-04-11
1944-04-20
1944-04-21
1944-04-22
1944-04-23
1944-04-24
1944-04-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-04-28
1944-04-30
1944-05-01
1944-05-02
1944-05-03
1944-05-04
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Log book for Sergeant Herbert O'Hara from 7 November 1942 to 9 September 1962. He was stationed with 12 Squadron at RAF Wickenby, where he flew Lancasters as navigator. The log book shows 14 night operations over France and Germany, with one to Poland. Targets were: Augsburg, Aulnoye, Berlin, Cologne, Dusseldorf, Essen, Frankfurt, Friedrichshafen, Gdynia, Karlsruhe, Lyon, Mailly-le-Camp, Mantenon, Stuttgart. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Maxwell. The log book is noted DID NOT RETURN beside the last operational flight. It is subsequently noted in Sgt O'Hara's hand that his aircraft was shot down leaving the vicinity of Mailley-le-Camp on 3 May 1944, abandoned by the crew, and that he was in France for 4 months before being liberated and flown home by the Air Transport Auxillary on 3 September 1944. He was subsequently posted to Advanced Flying Units and Flying Schools until finishing in 1962.
12 Squadron
1657 HCU
26 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
C-47
Dominie
evading
Heavy Conversion Unit
killed in action
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
missing in action
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
prisoner of war
RAF Binbrook
RAF Feltwell
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Penrhos
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Stradishall
RAF Wickenby
RAF Wing
shot down
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/178/5757/LBriggsR1893726v1.1.pdf
d1312b0386b0e78b8ed0110246e7101f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briggs, Roy
R Briggs
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. One oral history interview with Roy Briggs (1893726 Royal Air Force), his logbook, service material, training material, official documents and 12 photographs. Roy Briggs trained as a wireless operator and flew four operations with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton. He also took took part in Operation Manna and Operation Exodus as well as Cook’s tours over Germany.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Roy Briggs and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-28
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briggs, R
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Roy Briggs' flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBriggsR1893726v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Shropshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Cuxhaven
Germany--Helgoland
Germany--Plauen
Netherlands--Delft
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Netherlands--Valkenburg (South Holland)
Wales--Gwynedd
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1945-04-10
1945-04-11
1945-04-14
1945-04-15
1945-04-18
1945-04-22
1945-04-29
1945-04-30
1945-05-01
1945-05-02
1945-05-03
1945-05-07
1945-05-16
1945-06-05
1945-06-30
1945-07-04
1945-08-15
1945-08-17
1945-08-26
1945-08-28
1945-09-13
1945-09-15
1945-10-01
1945-10-03
1945-11-07
1945-11-09
1945-11-23
1945-11-24
1945-11-26
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers flying log book for Roy Briggs. The log book covers the period 30 December 1942 to 17 March 1947. Roy Briggs trained as a wireless operator in Great Britain. He flew four night time and daylight bombing operations and six operation Manna supply drops in April and May 1945 with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton. His targets were Bremen, Cuxhaven, Heligoland and Plauen. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Roberts. Aircraft flown were Anson, Dominie, Lancaster, Proctor, Stirling and Wellington. He also took part in Cook's tours and the repatriation of troops from Italy as part of Operation Dodge.
138 Squadron
156 Squadron
1660 HCU
30 OTU
35 Squadron
576 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of Helgoland (18 April 1945)
Cook’s tour
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Balderton
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Catterick
RAF Cranwell
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Graveley
RAF Hixon
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Madley
RAF Seighford
RAF Swinderby
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Upwood
RAF Warboys
RAF Wyton
RAF Yatesbury
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/459/8038/LNorthGJ173836v1.1.pdf
158f980ba904ff91970b193456df0034
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
North, Geoffrey John
North, G J
North, Johnny
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Geoffrey John 'Johnny' North, DFC, (173836, Royal Air Force) who served as a rear gunner on 428, 76 and 35 Squadrons flying Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He was called up in 1940 from his job as a tailor in Saville Row where he returned after the war. He was shot down on an operation to Duisburg on 21 February 1945. The collection contains his logbook, an account of his shooting down, capture and time as a prisoner of war, including documentation, forced march to another camp in 1945, liberation and repatriation. The collection includes membership documents for Royal Air Force Association, Pathfinders Association and Caterpillar Club as well as personnel documentation, Pathfinder badge correspondence and photographs of crew and squadron as well as other memorabilia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Carole Bishopp and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-20
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
North, G
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Geoffrey North’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LNorthGJ173836v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Germany
Great Britain
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Belgium--Hasselt
Belgium--Leopoldsburg
England--Berkshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Durham (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Gwynedd
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
France--Calais
France--Douai
France--Juvisy-sur-Orge
France--Laon
France--Longueau
France--Noyelles
France--Orléans
France--Saint-Nazaire
France--Trouville-sur-Mer
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hanau
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Landshut
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Peenemünde
Germany--Soest
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Germany--Saarbrücken
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Urft Dam
France--Neufchâtel-en-Bray
France--Laval (Mayenne)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Juvincourt-et-Damary
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943-01-26
1943-02-06
1943-02-07
1943-02-19
1943-02-28
1943-03-03
1943-03-04
1943-04-14
1943-04-15
1943-04-16
1943-04-17
1943-04-28
1943-04-29
1943-05-04
1943-05-05
1943-05-12
1943-05-13
1943-05-21
1943-05-22
1943-05-28
1943-05-29
1943-07-13
1943-07-14
1943-07-24
1943-07-25
1943-07-26
1943-07-27
1943-07-28
1943-07-29
1943-07-30
1943-08-02
1943-08-03
1943-08-17
1943-08-18
1943-08-22
1943-08-23
1943-08-24
1943-08-27
1943-08-28
1943-08-30
1943-08-31
1943-09-05
1943-09-06
1943-09-07
1943-09-22
1943-09-23
1943-09-27
1943-09-28
1943-10-04
1943-10-05
1944-05-11
1944-05-12
1944-05-13
1944-05-19
1944-05-20
1944-05-22
1944-05-23
1944-05-27
1944-06-07
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-19
1944-06-20
1944-06-22
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-06-28
1944-06-29
1944-07-01
1944-07-04
1944-07-09
1944-09-17
1944-09-20
1944-09-25
1944-09-30
1944-10-05
1944-10-06
1944-10-14
1944-10-15
1944-10-19
1944-10-21
1944-10-31
1944-11-02
1944-11-04
1944-11-06
1944-11-16
1944-11-18
1944-11-29
1944-12-04
1944-12-05
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-24
1945-01-06
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-14
1945-01-15
1945-01-16
1945-01-22
1945-01-23
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Air Force observer's and air gunner's flying log book for Pilot Officer Geoffrey North, air gunner, covering the period from 17 June 1942 to 29 September 1945. Detailing training, operations, repatriation and post war flying. He was stationed at RAF Llandwrog, RAF Harwell, RAF Dalton, RAF Driffield, RAF Topcliffe, RAF Middleton-St-George, RAF Dishforth, RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor, RAF Catfoss, RAF Warboys, RAF Graveley, RAF Huntingdon. Aircraft flown in were, Whitely, Wellington, Halifax, Lancaster, C-47. He flew 71 operations, 26 Night operations with 428 Squadron, 4 daylight and 12 Night operations with 76 Squadron and 9 daylight and 20 night operations with 35 Squadron. Targets were, Wilhelmshaven, St Nazaire, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Mannheim, Dortmund, Bochum, Aachen, Essen, Peenemunde, Leverkusen, Berlin, Nurenberg, Munchen-Gladbach, Munich, Hannover, Frankfurt, Trouville, Hasselt, Boulogne, Orléans, Bourg-Leopold, Juvisy, Laval, Longueau, Douai, Fouillard, Laon, Noyelle, Bainville, Martin L’Hortier, Chateau Bernapere, Calais, Bottrop, Saarbrucken, Sterkrade, Dusseldorf, Gelsenkirchen, Duren, Wanne-Eickel, Urft Dam, Soest, Merseburg, Hanau, Magdeburg, Bohlen and Chemnitz. He failed to return from his 71st operation to Duisberg on 21 February 1945, becoming a prisoner of war. His log book shows him being repatriated on 8 May 1945 from Landshut via Rheims and Juvincourt to RAF Westcott. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Morgan, Sergeant Williamson, Sergeant Staight, Sergeant Silvester, Warrant Officer Harrison, Pilot Officer Cole, Group Captain Dean, Squadron Leader Hall, and Flight Lieutenant Tropman.
15 OTU
1659 HCU
1664 HCU
35 Squadron
428 Squadron
76 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
C-47
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Halifax Mk 5
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
mine laying
missing in action
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
prisoner of war
RAF Catfoss
RAF Dalton
RAF Dishforth
RAF Driffield
RAF Graveley
RAF Harwell
RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Middleton St George
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Warboys
RAF Wyton
shot down
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/201/8347/PBaileyJD1607.1.jpg
d2e2e272e830d018ca52ba02b0e5dcc4
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/201/8347/ABaileyJD161207.2.mp3
3d78aa3a379aecd3a869c35e82fac2d1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bailey, John Derek
John Derek Bailey
Bill Bailey
John D Bailey
John Bailey
J D Bailey
J Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. Two oral history interviews with John Derek "Bill" Bailey (b. 1924, 1583184 and 198592 Royal Air Force) service material, nine photographs, a memoir and his log book. He flew a tour of operations as a bomb aimer with 103 and 166 Squadrons from RAF Elsham Wolds and RAF Kirmington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Bailey and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-07
2017-01-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bailey, JD
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HB: This is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive between Harry Bartlett, volunteer interviewer and Mr John Derek Bailey who is normally known as Derek and in the RAF was known as Bill. Pilot officer. And his service number was 198592 and Derek was born on the 2nd of February 1924. Right, Derek. Obviously, we’re interested in what you did before the war as well. So, you know, what, what, where did you actually live before the war?
JDB: I lived on Railway Farm and Shackerdale Farm at Wigston.
HB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: You’ll know where Shackerdale Farm was.
HB: Yes.
JDB: Because it’s near to where you now live.
HB: Yes. Yes.
JDB: But it’s now gone of course.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Their farm is a housing estate.
HB: Yes, absolutely.
JDB: On both, both sites actually.
HB: Did you, did you go to school in the Wigston area, Derek?
JDB: Yes I did. I went to, I went to school on the Saffron Lane Estate at a junior school and I did the, them days eleven plus exam which I passed and I got accepted to go to the Gateway School in Leicester and then the authorities found or discovered that where we lived on the farm which was then Railway Farm at the time which is up alongside the cemetery.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Was actually in the county of Leicester and not in the city. So they wouldn’t let me go to the Gateway School.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: So, so I therefore ended up going to South Wigston Intermediate School and there I remained until I passed the, there was a school leaving examination. It was called the EMEU, the East Midland Education Union and I passed that and I was then fourteen and a half and I was supposed to stay at school ‘til I was fifteen but because I’d passed this exam and finished they let me leave school in August and I went to work as a trainee draughtsman which is what I wanted to do, at Constone, in South Wigston and then the war started of course. I left school in 1938 and then I was still working there at Constone and the building materials, the reconstructed stonework that Constone manufactured became a sort of luxury building side, side stream thing and they finished up building air raid shelters mainly which minimised the need for a draughtsman so I, I got a bit fed up and I decided I’d like to leave and you had to go to the Labour Exchange. You couldn’t just do what you wanted in those days and so I went and they allowed me to leave Constone and I was sent to Fred Edling at Blaby to work there and I got on very well with Fred. I did a bit of draughtsmanshiping for him and -
HB: What did he do? What was that firm doing?
JDB: He was road transport.
HB: Right.
JDB: And he was the first, first haulier in Leicester, Leicestershire, to have a low loader and doing what you might call heavy haulage and I got on alright there. Very well. And so on my eighteenth birthday, I’d already made my mind up about this because I was in the Air Training Corps when it was formed in 1941 and I decided I wanted to go into the air force. You had to be eighteen. And on my eighteenth birthday I got on my bike and went down to Ulverscroft Road in Leicester and enlisted in the Royal Air Force and I went home and told my mum I’d just joined the Air Force and she burst in to tears of course.
HB: Yeah. Well you would wouldn’t you?
JDB: Yeah. And anyway so it was now I did the various acceptance tests and all that sort of thing and then they said, ‘Ok, you’re in,’ and I was given, I got a letter actually from Sir Archibald Sinclair who was the secretary of state for something or other, air I suppose and I was given what was called deferred service and so I was sent, I was, I was given a number and everything, sent home to carry on doing what I was doing until they sent for me and so -
HB: So when, when would that be, Derek?
JDB: Well I joined on the 2nd of February of course and they gave me this deferred service to wait until I was called so I was working for Fred and he, he said to me, he had an office in London as well, in Deptford and he said, the manager down there was, got called up, so he said to me, ‘Would you go down and run London office for the time being ‘til you go?’ And I was only eighteen mind.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Anyway, I said, ‘Yes.’ So one Monday morning on to one of his lorries, as a passenger of course and off we went to London and I’d been down there for, I can’t remember a time, a few weeks anyway and I said I’d like to come home for the weekend so he said ok so on one of the lorries again, back home and when I got home there was a letter waiting for me from the air ministry and it was to give me joining instructions to report to Air Crew Reception Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: On the 27th of July 1942. You can never forget some of these dates can you?
HB: No. No. No. I wouldn’t have thought. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah. The 27th of July.
HB: They’re important.
JDB: I reported, reported to Lord’s Cricket Ground and that started my RAF career then. So do you want me to just go on?
HB: Derek, whatever you want to tell me. I’m, I’m enthralled now. I mean when you went to the, to Lord’s Cricket Ground.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Did you do tests to decide what branch you were going to go in or –
JDB: Oh no.
HB: Did you just get brought in?
JDB: No. I should have told you that. When I joined and I went over to Birmingham for attestation as they called it and medicals and God knows what and I had the medical. They said, I wanted to be a pilot you see and they said, they did the medicals and said, ‘Sorry. You can’t be a pilot but you can be a navigator.’ I said, ‘Well why can’t I be a pilot then?’ He said, ‘Because you’ve got a defect in your eyesight. You -
HB: Oh.
JDB: It’s a convergency problem and you would probably try to land an aircraft about twelve or fifteen feet off the deck.’
HB: Right.
JDB: And so –
HB: Not something you want to do.
JDB: No. No. That’s right. ‘So you, so you’ll have to be, you’ll be a UT navigator.’ So that’s what I went to be. Now then. We got to Lord’s Cricket Ground. There, we were there for I think it was either two or three weeks. It wasn’t long and you got all your jabs for this, that and every other bloody thing and oh this one, I remember one morning we were on parade. Now, I was among those who were one up because we’d already done the drill.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We could do that.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We didn’t have to be taught and so on and one morning we were on parade and some sadistic bloody corporal calls out names, ‘Right. One pace forward the following. Bailey JD.’ I went, ‘Yes,’ and that was me and about another two guys and he said, ‘You’ve volunteered to give a pint of blood.’ I said, ‘Oh. Oh thank you very much corporal.’ Oh no. No. That’s alright. You know so, I said ‘What do you want a pint of my blood for?’ He said, ‘Well you’ve got an unusual blood group and they need your blood to group other people’s blood.’ But, now I don’t understand that. But -
HB: No. No but -
JDB: Anyway, that’s -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: What was said.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And that was just one of the things.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: Then we were marched off to the cinema to watch gory VD films and -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: You know, keep clear.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And all that sort of thing and then after I think it was about three weeks, they said, ‘Right you’re being posted now to await your next posting. You’re going to Ludlow to a camp until you’re posted to Initial Training Wing,’ and we went to Ludlow which, there were three wings there of all UT aircrew.
HB: UT’s under training.
JDB: Under training.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: UT air crew and there were so many airmen in Ludlow that they only let one wing out on the town each night. Not that that prevented us doing so but anyway that was, that was Ludlow. So it was three weeks at Ludlow and then the posting came through and I was lucky. I got a nice posting to, I’ve forgotten the number of the ITW now but it’s in, it’s in, I’ve got a record of it somewhere and off we went by train to Ludlow and we got, yeah we got off the train, ‘Fall in, pick up your kit,’ kitbag on your back. March down to, I was billeted in the Torbay Hotel on the seafront.
HB: Oh.
JDB: On the harbour. It’s not called the Torbay Hotel now but it, you can still see where it was written on the wall and there we were and we were at Torbay in Paignton until New Year’s Day would you believe and in that time we did various subjects like, well all sorts of subjects. Meteorology, air navigation, armoury, gunnery. The Browning 303 machine gun, the mainstay of nearly everything.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I remember a corporal armourer giving a lecture on the Browning 303 machine gun. He’d got one on the desk in front of him and he said, it was his party piece, he starts off saying, ‘This is the Browning 303 machine gun. It works by recoil action. When the gun is fired the bullet nips smartly up the barrel hotly pursued by the gasses.’ [laughs]
HB: I like it. It was a good description.
JDB: I always remember that Harry.
HB: Yeah. Good description. Yeah.
JDB: It was a party piece that was.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Anyway -
HB: So this, this was New Year’s Day. 19 -
JDB: New Year’s Day 1943.
HB: ‘43 right.
JDB: Yeah and I hadn’t my great coat on up till that day.
HB: Oh.
JDB: And we were posted from there to Brighton and it was like going to the bloody North Pole.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Compared with Paignton and then we were, and Brighton was a holding unit. You’ll hear that word a lot actually.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Holding units while waiting to go somewhere else and we got there and we marched up and down and roundabout and all that and, and one day whoever it was, I can’t remember, probably a sergeant or flight sergeant got us on parade and said, ‘Right, now then, the air ministry have invented a new trade in the air crew trades and it’s called an air bomber.’ Instead of a navigator dropping the bombs as well he hadn’t got time to do that so we now have got a trade called air bomber and the air bomber will be the second pilot, he will be the radar navigator, he will drop the bombs and various other things. The Daily Sketch had a full front page and it said, “This guy’s job is no joke” and it listed our full list of jobs. [laughs]
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Anyway, this guy who had gone on parade said, ‘The air ministry have invented this new trade. Now, anybody who would like to volunteer to move from UT navigator to air bomber we will guarantee a quick posting instead of being sat here for weeks on end,’ And so, so of course Derek Bailey was one of those who stepped forward.
HB: Right.
JDB: Very quickly and within a week we were on our way to Heaton Park, Manchester ready for embarkation to Canada.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: And -
HB: So, how did you, so you went to Heaton Park.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Got booked in there, and then from there you went to Canada.
JDB: Went up to go to Glasgow to board ship.
HB: Oh right. So you went from Glasgow. Right.
JDB: Yeah from Port Glasgow. It was on a ship called the Andes and the minute it left the Clyde I was seasick and I was seasick till I got off in Halifax.
HB: Oh no.
JDB: Nova Scotia.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: Yeah. Anyway, so then we were in Canada. We went from Halifax, Nova Scotia on the train to Monkton.
HB: Right.
JDB: New Brunswick. Which was a massive camp for all air crew who went to Canada for training. Went through Monkton and came back through Monkton.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: It was a massive place.
HB: So, what, what was its purpose? Just a –
JDB: Just a transit camp.
HB: Just a transit to get you in, get you sorted.
JDB: That’s it, get you with some extra bits of kit.
HB: Right.
JDB: Like, we got there in the winter of course and it was bloody cold you know and if you were to walk around without your ears covered up they’d be frozen.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: Anyway. So that was it the. Eventually they got us on a train and sent us out to Carberry in Manitoba to another, which was an, which was a training station. Pilot training. And they just sent us there to be housed until they were ready for us where we were supposed to be and we got to Carberry and we, and every so often on the way over through Ottawa and Montreal and where else did we go? Where the train stopped and they took some bodies off with scarlet fever.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: And we got to Carberry and we’d been there about a day and I got my sore throat and whatever and I’d got it, scarlet fever, along with others and I spent five weeks in hospital just feeling alright and doing nothing but you know. I went from, they took me, took us from Carberry to a place called Brandon in Saskatchewan in an isolation hospital. You know scarlet fever is highly, what’s the word I want?
HB: Contagious.
JDB: That’s it. And, and there we were. Then we got two weeks leave, sick leave, after the five weeks. Myself and another bloke from Manchester we got five weeks, no, two weeks sick leave and all the pay for the five weeks as well had accrued and off we went on the train to Winnipeg and had a holiday in Winnipeg.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: Yeah. Lovely.
HB: I bet you enjoyed that.
JDB: Oh we did.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We did. I learned to skate among other things. Anyway, and then eventually we got posted off to Picton, Ontario which was number 31 Bombing And Gunnery School and that’s where we did our first bomb dropping and air firing of, not a Browning, it was Vickers gas operated -
HB: So -
JDB: Machine.
HB: When you got to Picton -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: The, were, were you actually going up in aircraft?
JDB: Oh yeah. When we got to Picton that was the start of the serious business of training.
HB: Right.
JDB: And we were, you were learning bomb aiming and air gunnery.
HB: Right.
JDB: We used to do, the air firing was shooting at drogues towed by Lysanders. I don’t know if you were aware of what they are.
HB: The, the, yeah. Yeah.
JDB: A Lyssie.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. High wing and over the top.
JDB: That’s it. Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. And -
HB: So where were you firing from? What sort of, were you flying from an aircraft?
JDB: From a, from a Bolingbroke which is a Canadian built Blenheim.
HB: Right. A Bolingbroke.
JDB: Bolingbroke. Yeah. It was the same, same aircraft.
HB: Right.
JDB: But Canadian built as a Blenheim.
HB: Right.
JDB: Oh and the bombing we did from Ansons.
HB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Ansons. With ten pound practice bombs.
HB: Right.
JDB: We did eight in an exercise normally.
HB: And how often, how often would you expect to sort of go up and do that in your time there? Would that be every couple of days?
JDB: I count them in my logbook.
HB: Right. It would be sort of every few days would it?
JDB: Oh yeah. Yeah. And then when we finished at Picton, that part of the training, we were moved to Mount Hope which is at the end side of lake, what lake is that one? No, not Erie. Lake Ontario.
HB: Lake Ontario. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah. Of course it is. So Picton is sort of one side of Toronto, in the, Picton [island in the lake].
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And Mount Hope was the other end at Hamilton. Mount Hope is now Hamilton Airport.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: And they have, they have, I’ve been there in the last few years. They have there the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum I think they call it and they’ve got a load of aircraft there including one Lancaster.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: Which are all flying examples. They haven’t got any statics. They don’t have, don’t want static aeroplanes. They want aeroplanes that can fly and so that’s at Mount Hope and we did our navigation part of the training there and having completed that we then got our wing, our single wing. It, it was what used to be called a flying arsehole. The old brevvy was. You know.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And then having got that presented on wings parade I think, I think we were back in England, we got back to England and the air ministry decided that that was going to be abolished, that wing, and we were going to have a single wing like other trades and it would say, it would have a B in it so that’s what I’ve got and -
HB: So when, so you finished your training.
JDB: At Mount Hope.
HB: At Mount Hope.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And then you came back through Monkton.
JDB: Back through Monkton.
HB: And you got back to England.
JDB: Well we got back to, yeah. There were about a dozen of us put on to the ship, the Mauretania, when we came back and we were put on and we were sergeants now. We got promoted to sergeant at the same time as getting the wing.
HB: Right.
JDB: And, yeah that’s right and we were put on the ship and we were sent, well there were, I think about a dozen of us. The OC troops was a squadron leader and we were his crew and we said, ‘What are we here for?’ He said, ‘Well tomorrow we’re embarking a load of American,’ you know, their Pioneer Corps type.
HB: Right.
JDB: You know, engineers or whatever you call them and these Americans all came on board and that was a joke if ever you’ve seen one. We got them all. They didn’t know where they were going. They thought they were going to Iceland and then they said, they were saying to us, ‘Well, where do we pick up the convoy then?’ We should have said, ‘What convoy.’ [laughs]
HB: Oh dear, oh dear.
JDB: Oh dear. ‘Well we just go and nip off smartly and keep out the way of bloody U-boats if any.’ And so that was that.
HB: So was the Mauretania. Was that a liner?
JDB: It was. Yeah. It was quite a -
HB: A big.
JDB: Modern liner.
HB: Right. Yeah.
JDB: That was. Funnily enough a pal of mine who lived in Hinckley and he died recently but he, I told him I’d been on the Mauretania he was an avid cruiser and he produced a photograph of the Mauretania for me.
HB: Lovely. Lovely.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Oh that’s very -
JDB: Yeah
JB: So where, what sort of dates are we talking about you getting back to England then?
JDB: It was not long before Christmas 1943.
HB: Right. Well that’s a good long time then.
JDB: We were there, we were over there nearly a year.
HB: Blimey.
JDB: Within a year.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And I came home. We landed in Liverpool and we went to Harrogate which was a holding unit, another holding unit. Holding unit for air crew returning from abroad.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: After training. Pending posting to the next training unit so there we were at Harrogate, over Christmas actually. But just before Christmas as I say we went home on leave in December and we got, I got, I think we got about a week’s leave so went home in December and I went home and saw my grandad in Wigston in Bushloe End.
HB: Oh right, yeah.
JDB: And, I think he was in Bushloe End still. No they weren’t. They were in Manor Street, they lived in Manor Street then and my grandad he was eighty five and he said to me, ‘Hello boy,’ he said, ‘I’ve been waiting for you to come home.’ And within a week he’d passed away.
HB: Oh.
JDB: And I went to the funeral while I was home.
HB: Oh.
JDB: Amazing. And then we went back, back to Harrogate and we were billeted in the Grand Hotel overlooking Valley Gardens in Harrogate and waiting where to go and then we, we, we got moved to another little holding unit as part of the, I’m trying to think of the name of the place between Preston and Blackpool.
HB: Padgate?
JDB: Who?
HB: Padgate?
JDB: No.
HB: No that was further up wasn’t it?
JDB: No the -
HB: That was Blackpool.
JDB: No that was further down. There was -
HB: Preston. Blackpool.
JDB: There’s a prison there now. I think it might be an open prison.
HB: Oh.
JDB: On the camp where we were and I’ve forgotten the name of it. It begins with K. Oh never mind anyway it doesn’t matter very much. I could easily find out. It’s about half way between Preston and Blackpool.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And we were stuck there for a few weeks and then got posted to North Wales to near Pwllheli and Ansons. It was a, it was an Advanced Flying Unit and it was equipped with Ansons and we did the bombing in, in the cove off, off the, just off the coast by Pwllheli.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And that was only a few weeks, you know. Went and did a bit of infra-red bombing and one thing or another.
HB: I was just going, I was just going to ask you Derek about the bomb sights because the time you went in for the training they must –
JDB: They were Mark 9 bomb sights up till now.
HB: Yeah. Right.
JDB: Ok.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: If you want to know more about that I can tell you but –
HB: Yeah.
JDB: But they were Mark 9 bomb sights up to that, up to this point.
HB: Right.
JDB: Then when we’d done the bombing bit we went to the 9, number 9 OAFU Observer Advanced Flying Unit. We were split into two parts. The bombing bit was at, just outside Pwllheli at, I forgot what it was called now. Aber some bloody thing. It would be in Wales wouldn’t it?
HB: Abersoch.
JDB: No, not quite as far -
HB: No.
JDB: As that. Anyway, we got moved then to Llandwrog which is Caernarfon Airport as such now and we’d got Ansons again but in the navigation role and we just roamed around the Irish Sea. They had an infra-red target on the end of the pier at Douglas on the Isle of Man and various other places and -
HB: So an infra-red target. What, what would that have been?
JDB: Infra-red, well a camera with, an infra-red camera pointing upwards and if you flew over it with an open shutter camera you get a trace.
HB: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: You know, you could work out where your bombs would have fallen.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And various other types of funny targets they used as well and anyway that was at Llandwrog and then they put, one morning we went in and they’d put a list up of various OTU’s, that’s Operational Training Units that you could express a preference for which you went to.
HB: Very nice.
JDB: Would you believe?
HB: Yeah, very nice.
JDB: And so you’d got found, on this list one was Desborough and I thought that’ll do me. That’s not far from home. So I put down for Desborough. When, when we came to be formed up to go and they said, ‘Righto. This group here, you’re going to Peplow aren’t you?’ I said, ‘I don’t know. I thought we were going to Desborough.’ ‘Well. Well, it’s Peplow.’ Anyway, off we went to Peplow and I still thought we were going to bloody Desborough. Anyway, we ended at Peplow which happens to be over by Newport, Salop.
HB: Yeah
JDB: Shropshire.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Where my daughter now lives. She lives just by there. Anyway, we got to, we got, finally got to Peplow. There we were. The next day there was a load of aircrew there just arrived. Pilots, navigators, bomb aimers, engineers, oh no we didn’t have a flight engineer at that stage. Gunners and so on and we were all, all were put in to a hangar, a big hangar and wandering around like bloody lost sheep and he said, ‘Right sort yourselves out, get yourself into crews of seven.’ And that’s how we -
HB: And that was it.
JDB: Formed a crew.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Somebody came to me and said, ‘I’m in George Knott’s crew. Can you join us as a bomb aimer?’ I said, ‘Yeah, ok.’ And that was it. Just so. Just like that.
HB: And these were blokes, you’d not, obviously not met any of these other guys other than the bomb aimers.
JDB: Well no.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We just met for the first time.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: All of us. So we did and then we had, then we did our training there.
HB: So, so in that hangar from that day.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You came, all came together as a group of seven.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So that’s your pilot.
JDB: I think we had seven at that stage but we only had one gunner on Wellingtons you see. So that -
HB: So you were crewing up for Wellingtons.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Right.
JDB: Oh that’s what we were crewing up for.
HB: Right.
JDB: I think we only had one gunner. We picked a second gunner up somewhere else and then when we got to Heavy Conversion Unit. Yeah. That was our next move. We went to a Heavy Conversion Unit at Sandtoft up near Doncaster.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: Which is, which was, a Halifax, equipped with Halifax 2s and 5s. Merlin engined Halifaxes and the bloody accident record there was so bad that it was named Prangtoft.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Instead of Sandtoft. Yeah.
HB: Because, because it was a while before they changed the engines wasn’t it?
JDB: Well yeah.
HB: In the Halifax.
JDB: Yes and 4 Group which was the only group to operate Halifaxes. They, they got Halifax 3s which were radial engined.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And they were a superb aeroplane but they were useless at the others. Bloody terrible things. They were nice and comfortable for the crew.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: But the performance was, left a bit to be desired.
HB: So when you went to the Heavy Conversion Unit -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Did you carry on with Wellingtons or did you move to the Halifaxes?
JDB: No. Moved straight to the Halifaxes.
HB: You went into the Halifaxes. Right.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Halifaxes and then when we’d finished on conversion to Halifaxes we then got posted to Lanc Finishing School to do only a week for the pilot to convert from Halifax to Lancaster. And -
HB: Right.
JDB: The Lancaster was a superb aeroplane. Still is.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Superb. We got, went on this and they gave you, gave us a familiarisation flight and, for the skipper and I can always remember going on this flight. We did a ninety degree turn in to two dead engines you know, them down.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Without losing any height.
HB: Blimey.
JDB: Superb aeroplane it was and that was at, and I’ve been trying to think of the name of the bloody place and I can’t at the moment, where we did that but it was about halfway between Lincoln and the Humber.
HB: Would it be in your logbook?
JDB: Yes. It would.
HB: Here you are. Let me have a look and I’ll see if I can find that. So what date are we talking about roughly there?
JDB: I can’t remember.
HB: Oh. This is, yeah this is it this is marked air bomber. Air bomber, navigation. Wow.
JDB: Yeah [laughs]
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We never used the term air bomber really. It was a bomb aimer.
HB: It was, I was going to say it was something I hadn’t come across until I started doing this.
JDB: Well it was a B on the brevvy for starters.
HB: Yeah. Right. Hang on a minute. Where are we? That’s obviously Canada that is. ’43.
JDB: Yeah it would be on a bit Harry.
HB: ‘43 and we’ve got 83 OTU at Peplow.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. That’s all on the Wellington and then we’ve got Sandtoft at Doncaster.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You did a bit of night flying at Sandoft then.
JDB: Oh yeah.
HB: Yeah. Where are we now? C flight. Hemswell.
JDB: Hemswell. That’s it.
HB: Hemswell. Familiarisation. Yeah.
JDB: Number 1 Lanc Finishing School.
HB: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I found that now.
JDB: Yeah. And from there we went to 103.
HB: Right. Because you had a pilot there, that was your Lancaster there was SCF2 and BCX.
JDB: There was the one that we got shot up. That was the second trip.
HB: Right. Yeah so that, so that takes you through, that takes you through to August ’44.
JDB: That’s right. Yeah. It was after D-Day.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Just after D-Day.
HB: Yeah. Blimey. Oh right yeah now it really starts doesn’t it?
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Elsham Wolds.
JDB: Yeah. Look at that first operation at Elsham.
HB: Yeah. 11th of August 1944. I’m reading this obviously Derek because, because, you know, your eyes aren’t so clever now.
JDB: I can’t even see it.
HB: And the pilot officer was Knott. Pilot Officer Knott. Air bomber. Cross country. That was, so that was your training flights.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Cross country air-sea firing and then, what? There’s one here. I’ve seen this before and I’ve never thought to ask about it Derek. It’s got the 24th of August 1944 and it’s got Knott and your duties as air bomber and it’s got Y cross country. What does the Y mean?
JDB: Y. Oh it was, Y cross country. It was, it was a radar.
HB: Ah.
JDB: Now what were we using ‘cause we were using Gee and -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Y. I think it might have been the start of H2S.
HB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve heard of H2S so -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: That would be like the forerunner then. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah. I think so. Something, something like that.
HB: Blimey and then yeah, you’re right. Then it’s your first operation and you’re straight in to Stettin.
JDB: Yeah. Just look at that -
HB: Stettin.
JDB: First operation. The time.
HB: Nine hours twenty five.
JDB: Nine hours twenty five minutes airborne.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: In a bloody Lancaster.
HB: At night. Yeah.
JDB: At night.
HB: Blimey, that, that is a, is a long -
JDB: That’s a long drag.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Believe me.
HB: Mind you, Stettin, Stettin was always a good -
JDB: Stettin. Yeah we went up over Sweden to get there. That’s why it took so long.
HB: Did the Swedes not complain?
JDB: Yeah they did.
HB: Did they?
JDB: They fired. They opened fire but they’re flak was at about ten thousand feet and we were at eighteen.
HB: Oh right so they did, so the Swedes -
JDB: They were very -
HB: The Swedes actually opened fire on you.
JDB: Oh yeah they were very accomo, they had to you see
HB: Yeah.
JDB: They were very accommodating.
HB: Yeah. What are, now what are you trying to say Derek [laughs] are you trying to say they were either bad gunners or they perhaps the -
JDB: No. I’m saying that they were very accurate gunners.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And made sure the flak didn’t go up near us.
HB: [laughs] I understand that. Blimey. So that, and that and that was with a five hundred pound LD, seven cans thirty pounds and seven cans four pound incendiaries.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: That’s a good load, that’s a good load. It’s still -
JDB: It is on that maximum range.
HB: Yeah. I was going to say that is on a long one like that.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And then your next one is [Argonville?].
JDB: Yeah. We got shot to pieces.
HB: Yeah and you say it’s shot to pieces right.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You tell me what you, what you remember of being shot to pieces and I’ll tell you what you’ve written in your logbook.
JDB: Damaged by flak haven’t I?
HB: Yeah. That’s all it says.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: What happened there then?
JDB: Well at [Argonville] it was a flying bomb sight and we, that first trip when we went to Stettin it was, it was a doddle apart from weariness. We didn’t have any opposition apart from anti-aircraft fire which was sporadic to say the least and then we thought oh [Argonville] it’s only in France bloody hell piece of [?] it was. We got, we were briefed to bomb as I remember I think about seven thousand feet and we got over there and the target was cloud obscured. Couldn’t see it at all so the, and it was a master bomber raid so the master bomber called us up and said that, ‘Target obscured by cloud,’ called main force you know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Descend to, descend to, I can’t remember exactly but say four thousand feet or five thousand feet, descend to five thousand feet or whatever it was. ‘No opposition.’ That was the master bomber who turned out to be, I understand the master bomber was Mr VC himself as a wing commander. What’s his name?
HB: Guy Gibson.
JDB: No.
HB: Cheshire.
JDB: Cheshire.
HB: Len Cheshire.
JDB: Correct.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Wing Commander Cheshire. So anyway we descended, we broke cloud and there were bloody shells bursting around us.
HB: Crikey.
JDB: I was looking out the front of the aircraft and there were two shell bursts right in front of me. And so I was down the front, down the nose, ready to drop the bombs and Paddy the rear gunner shouts, ‘We’re on fire skip,’ and we weren’t on fire. It was all the hydraulic fluid buggering off and we, we sort of over flew the target. I pressed the tit and nothing happened and so we did a circuit and I changed the main fuse and I pressed the tit again and nothing happened again so we couldn’t drop the bombs so we, we left the target area and started to make our way home. We were going to come up the North Sea and drop the bombs so, this was all my job you see. My responsibility. So I got the wireless op to help me and we, once we got over the dropping zone in the North Sea I got with me my piece of wire and dropped all the bombs manually.
HB: Oh.
JDB: Into the North Sea.
HB: Yeah
JDB: And then we then we realised we’d got no hydraulics so we couldn’t, we couldn’t do anything with the undercarriage or the flaps but you could, you could blow the undercarriage down by compressed air.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: But you could only do it once and once you’d done it you’d done it, you know and then -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: They were down –
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And they had to stay down so we made our way back to, towards Elsham and we were flying with, I think we put the wheels down at some point. I can’t remember, and we were going to do a flapless landing and, you know, which we did actually.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And we did, we did a bit of a hairy landing, rolled down the runway and hoped we could stop because we’d got no brakes either. No brakes and whatever and eventually we got the aircraft to the end of the runway and rolled it on to dispersal and a shell had burst just under the bloody bomb bay. God, we were near to it you know and all the wiring had gone and the hydraulic pipes had, were fractured and that’s where all the hydraulic fluid had gone and –
HB: That was -
JDB: Well that was that.
HB: Somebody was sitting on your shoulders that day weren’t they?
JDB: Well yeah that’s right. And then George went into briefing and got a right bollocking. He said, ‘You only just missed the bloody sergeant’s mess when you came in to land, Knott.’
HB: That’s George, that’s George. Is that Pilot Officer Knott? The pilot. George
JDB: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: Blimey.
JDB: He was not a happy chappy.
HB: I’m not surprised. So who, who were, what were the names of your crew on that one Derek?
JDB: The crew, there was my, there was George Knott was the skipper.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I was the bomb aimer of course. Ron Archer was the nav.
HB: The navigator.
JDB: Yes.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: Wally Williams was the flight engineer. Gus Leigh, I sent him a card today and I hope he’s still alive. He lives, he lives in Ripon.
HB: Right.
JDB: And where was I?
HB: Gus.
JDB: Gus. His name’s not Gus it’s Wilf.
HB: Wilf.
JDB: But we always called him, he was always known as Gus.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: In the air force. Anyway. Wilf Leigh, he was the wireless operator. He was the old man of the crew as well as it happened.
HB: How old was he then?
JDB: Well I was twenty one, I think. No I wasn’t. I was twenty -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: When I did my operations. He was about well I’m not quite sure. I think he was about six years older than me.
HB: Oh a real old fella then.
JDB: Well, yeah. I mean I can account for all of my crew except the gunners.
HB: Right.
JDB: I’ve never been able to find them. Anyway, I’ll tell you about him later.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: But where, where was I? Yeah. That’s it.
HB: So you have Gus Leigh
JDB: Is the wireless op.
HB: Which gunner? He was the wireless op.
JDB: Jock Gregg, John Gregg was the mid upper and a little, little guy called, was the youngest member of the crew actually was Paddy Anderson was the rear gunner. He was only a small chap. Fitted in to the rear turret quite nicely. Yeah.
HB: [laughs] Right. And this was, that, that was, the Lancaster designation for that one was PM Papa Mike.
JDB: Yeah. PM was the -
HB: And then it was.
JDB: Designation letters -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: for 103.
HB: For 103 yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So that, and that was N. The letter N for that. Would that be for Nan in those days?
JDB: Nan, yes. N.
HB: N-Nan. Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I’d forgotten ‘cause you’d gone into that and by now.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You were then posted obviously to Elsham Wolds.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Into 103 squadron then.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So at some stage George Knott between Hemswell and Elsham Wolds he got promoted to pilot officer.
JDB: Yes. That’s right.
HB: So that was, that was another party then was it?
JDB: No. He was, he, it was automatic promotion up to flight lieutenant.
HB: Right.
JDB: George was a, what happened was while we were at Sandtoft George was then a flight sergeant. We were an all NCO crew.
HB: Right. Yeah.
JDB: And George got sent for while we were at Sandtoft to see the station commander and he went in to see him and he said to him, ‘Right. Flight sergeant, you are, you are to apply for a commission. The air ministry have decided that captains of four-engined aircraft shall be commissioned.’ So George said to the station commander, ‘But I don’t want to be commissioned sir. I have an all NCO crew and I’d like to stay with them.’ And he said, ‘It is air ministry policy Knott. You will do as you’re told.’
HB: Blimey. Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s not exactly, that’s not an argument you’re going to win is it?
JDB: No. Are you alright?
HB: Yeah. I’m just, I’m just making sure that we’re on track with the recorder ‘cause it did let me down once so I’m very very cautious of it. Making sure it’s working right. Yeah. It’s working fine.
JDB: And there we are.
HB: Yeah so then, I mean looking at this you’ve got quite a few daylight operations.
JDB: Yes.
HB: And there was one here caught my eye which was Cap Gris Nez.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: The only Gris Nez I know is sort of the Channel Islands.
JDB: No. Cap Gris Nez is near Calais.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Right
[Door opens.]
JDB: Hello Henry.
Other: Hello grandad.
JDB: Hello George.
HB: Here’s the boys. I tell you what we can do. We, ‘cause you sound like you need a drink.
JDB: You’re alright Harry.
HB: We’ll just pause it a minute.
[machine paused]
HB: Right. Resuming, resuming the interview.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And we’re looking at, its now round about twenty to four.
JDB: Blimey.
HB: And today is the 7th I forgot to say that at the beginning. It’s the 7th of December.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: 2016
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You see I was getting excited ‘cause you got your logbook out. So, right, so you did obviously things like Le Havre and Calais.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Were all in, all in support of the drive forward in to Europe.
JDB: Yeah. All in support of the troops on the ground.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: ‘Cause if you recall all of those things the channel ports were sort of all bypassed by the ground forces and surrounded.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And sort of tidied up afterwards.
HB: Right.
JDB: And not, not a pretty sight at times, I can tell you.
HB: No. No they must have been quite difficult on that one. So, yeah, so there was, so we’re going through from August the 11th ‘44 when you start with 103 and we get to the 28th, yeah 28th of September ‘44 and that’s, and you summarise that. You’ve done, blimey, one two, three, four. You’ve done well over ten daylight, thirteen, fourteen, fourteen daylight ops there and then we come to the 19th of October and you’re joining 166 squadron now.
JDB: Yes. That’s right.
HB: At Kirmington.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So -
JDB: Well -
HB: What was Kirmington like at that time?
JDB: What do you mean?
HB: Well what was it like as an airfield then? ‘Cause it’s -
JDB: Oh it was a perfectly functional airfield. They had got rid of all of their Wellingtons and were fully equipped with, with Lancs and the reason we went there was because they had to form a new A flight at Kirmington and they pinched two crews from 103 and we were one of the two.
HB: Oh right. So you didn’t volunteer for it obviously you were just -
JDB: Oh no. No. We just were told just do it.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: You know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And Kirmington was a more pleasant place to be than Elsham because Elsham was up on top of the Wolds you know going towards the Humber and the road from Barnetby up to the Humber Bridge goes through the middle of the airfield.
HB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah. And there’s a water works up there where there’s a big memorial to 103 and 576 squadron. They shared that airfield.
HB: Yeah. ‘Cause I mean here you’re doing, you’re back on doing, well you’ve got a six hour night operation there to Essen. That’s what, that’s October ‘44 and you’ve got, oh you got hit again then on an operation to Cologne.
JDB: Where?
HB: Cologne.
JDB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Again another one of those little simple statements. “Aircraft damaged by flak,” you know.
JDB: Well yeah. Not badly though.
HB: Oh that was a bit better was it that time?
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. But what’s intriguing me here is -
JDB: Sorry.
HB: What’s intriguing me Derek is there’s another one to Cologne the following night and you’re taking off at twenty seven minutes past five and it’s got, you’ve written in your logbook. “Aborted. Rear gunner unconscious.”
JDB: Yeah. He was. We did a crew check. A crew check. No response from Paddy. Went down to him and he was out cold and I think it turned out to be a trapped pipe, oxygen pipe or some bloody thing.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: I can’t remember exactly.
HB: So that, so obviously that that was abortive. I mean, how far you were in to it? Can you remember?
JDB: No. Not far.
HB: No far. Oh right.
JDB: Didn’t count.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Didn’t count for the count up, you know.
HB: Oh right. Oh dear. Oh right yeah ‘cause yeah that’s I see what you mean two hours fifteen minutes and it was five hours forty for the previous one. So, so then, I mean, blimey you still did some fairly lengthy ops didn’t you?
JDB: Oh yeah once we got over to Leipzig area doing [Moritzburg? Loren?] and things like that.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: They were all a pretty long way.
HB: Got Freiburg, seven, seven hours fifteen.
JDB: Freiburg.
HB: Freiburg. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah. That’s in, down in the south of France. Down near the Swiss border.
HB: Right. Yeah. But you still, I see even you have still got these gardening operations dropping mines.
JDB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HB: What, ‘cause did they not count?
JDB: Oh yes they counted.
HB: They counted then did they?
JDB: Oh yeah. One of them was a long distance. We went up to Oslo Fjord with one.
HB: I’ve got one here marked it just says operation, ops gardening Norwegian waters. Six one thousand eight hundred pound mines.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And that was six hours forty five, that one.
JDB: Yeah that would be the one up Oslo Fjord.
HB: So, what, what was the threat there, Derek? Do you know?
JDB: What do you mean?
HB: Well you were mining off Norway.
JDB: Well we were mining in the Kattegat and the Skagerrak. We were mining channels, shipping channels which were taking troops and goods from Germany to Norway.
HB: Ah.
JDB: That was the thing. The danger to us there was flak ships mainly.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. [pause] Yeah, Yeah.
JDB: Say nothing Sue. Thanks.
HB: You’re very kind. Thank you. We’ve just had out refreshments delivered. Absolutely superb. Thank you. There’s just one little thing in here just caught my eye and that’s, where are we now? [coughs] Excuse me. November 1944. The 28th. You’re flying AS G-George and you’ve got flying officer Knott, George Knott. And then you’ve got a Flying Officer Yates.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And you’ve got written in there fighter affiliation Y bombing, practice bombing Alkborough.
JDB: Yeah. That was a non-operational. It’s blue.
HB: Yeah. Oh right.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: ‘Cause it just said -
JDB: A training flight.
HB: It just says six bombs and then it says sixty five yards dash twenty thousand.
JDB: Sixty five yards area at twenty thousand feet.
HB: [cough] Excuse me.
JDB: He was George’s buddy.
HB: So what would he just have been?
JDB: He was another pilot.
HB: Yeah. Just for the hell of it or -
JDB: I don’t know why.
HB: Would he be observing?
JDB: I can’t remember why they were both together. I’m sure.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: I don’t even know what we were doing. I can’t remember that.
HB: Right. And then the following, the following day you go to Dortmund and again one of those, “Aircraft damaged by flak again.”
JDB: Oh that was a gaggle flying day.
HB: A gaggle flying day [laughs]. Go on then. You’re all flying in a V formation? No?
JDB: Well, we went in to briefing. I remember this one, we went to briefing and the CO stands up there and says, ‘Right gentlemen today you will be gaggle flying as an experiment.’ We said, ‘Yes. Alright. What’s gaggle flying then?’ He said, ‘Well what you do you all take off as normal then we want one of the squadron aircraft to formate on another one of the squadron aircraft. Say you got two and all form up in twos like that and then all the twos, when you’re all ready, sort of close in together carefully and that’s called gaggle flying and the reason you’re doing that is because we’re having a bit of a charmed life at the moment but we’re going to get bounced if we’re not careful.’
HB: Right.
JDB: So we’ve got to be, we’re practicing some defensive formations.
HB: Ah right.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Right. That, that makes, that makes sense a bit now.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So this was a way of bringing you together.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: To increase your fire.
JDB: That’s it.
HB: Your fire power as a defensive thing.
JDB: Yeah. And it was a bloody disaster I might say.
HB: Was it?
JDB: Yeah. It was on that day.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Because, if I remember, was the, was the target Dortmund?
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Well we got into this gaggle flying thing and we had the lead aircraft had got three, I think, flight commanders probably but they painted the tail fins all bright yellow on the three leaders and they formed up into a Vic.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: To lead the formation. Everybody then packed in behind them you see.
HB: Oh blimey.
JDB: That was the theory.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: So we start off and it was daylight of course. We went over the Rhine and, no we didn’t, before we got to the Rhine we detected that we were I think it was three minutes early, going to be three minutes early on target so the lead navigator ‘cause being in this bloody gaggle we had to follow the leaders you see and the, the leader decided that to lose the three minutes we were going to do a dog leg. A three minute dog leg. You do, if you’re flying there you do a forty five degrees three minutes, forty five degrees back and join up where you were and then you’ve lost two minutes or three minutes whatever it was.
HB: Right.
JDB: So, so we’re doing this dog leg and where does the apex of the dog leg take us do you think?
HB: Oh no.
JDB: Straight over Dusseldorf.
HB: Oh my.
JDB: Bang. Bang. Bang. You know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And there were bloody aircraft going everywhere you know. I saw, I saw a Lanc go across and take a tail off another one.
HB: Oh no.
JDB: Oh yeah. It was, it was dreadful. You wouldn’t do gaggle flying at night anyway you see would you?
HB: No. Well, it sounds dangerous enough in the daytime.
JDB: So I don’t know whether they did any more gaggle flying. I didn’t.
HB: Yeah. So was that, was that, so that would be your squadron plus -?
JDB: It was probably the whole of 1 Group I should think. At least.
HB: Right.
JDB: I could find out. It’s in the diaries.
HB: Oh no. No. Worry not. Worry not. Yeah. Yeah. Oh right ‘cause -
JDB: While I think about it.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Can I just tell you Harry?
HB: Yeah.
JDB: The “Bomber Command Diaries” which I’ve got.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I’ve told you about.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: It was out of print when we looked. Now the other week Sue and I went to East Kirkby.
HB: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Right.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And they’ve got a good bookshop in there.
HB: Yes they have.
JDB: As you know I’m sure.
HB: Yes they have. Yes.
JDB: And blow me what did they have there a soft back “Bomber Command Diaries” so it’s in print again.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: But in soft back.
HB: Yeah. Like we, like we were saying earlier on what I’ll do, what I’ll do is I’ll check with Dr Dan Ellin who runs the oral history.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And the digital project. I’ll check with his office and with Peter Jones who you spoke to on the phone.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: But I’m fairly confident that that’s been mentioned before.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So I’m fairly confident they’ll have a copy.
JDB: Sure to have been –
HB: Yeah but if they haven’t then obviously -
JDB: Yeah but they’ve got, they’ve got it in soft back at East Kirkby.
HB: And that’s, yeah, oh right well I’ll point him at that if we’re missing one of them
JDB: Yeah. Anyway -
HB: Yeah ‘cause we’re leading up here we’ve come to December ‘44 and we’re leading up to this business at St Vith.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: For the Battle of the Bulge. I mean, I’m looking at this and you’ve gone what one two three four, you’ve gone four night ops, not too many days apart and I think your last, your last one in your book, in your logbook on that one is -
JDB: [Sights?]
HB: C mining off Kattegat. That was a night flight.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: But you got diverted to Lossiemouth.
JDB: Wait a minute. Oh no that was the, that was the Oslo Fjord one when we got diverted Lossiemouth.
HB: Right.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Right. ‘Cause that again, I mean that’s damn near six hours.
JDB: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: That one and then you had, you had one that you had because you had to fly out of Lossiemouth base obviously.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: But then you had one which was abortive on the 21st of December. You only got an hour in the air on that one.
JDB: Oh that was, that was sea mining.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Yeah it was, the H2S was U/S.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: So we couldn’t do it.
HB: I mean just, the H2S is the, in the aircraft what purpose does the H2S have?
JDB: Well it’s ground mapping radar.
HB: Right. Right.
JDB: It was essential for sea mining because we used to use a identifiable spot on the coast or whatever which was a good return on H2S on screen. You get a good return and you can identify and that’s a datum to start from where to drop your mines.
HB: Right.
JDB: Normally. As it happens that one on Oslo Fjord it was a visual because it was in a channel. An island in the mainland that we were mining. We did it visually.
HB: Right. And then on the 26th we’ve got the Battle of the Bulge going on.
JDB: Yeah St Vith.
HB: Yeah and that’s four hours ten minutes.
JDB: Yeah. Well it was a fairish way you know.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Nearly in the Ruhr isn’t it? Not far from the Ruhr valley.
HB: And this is, this is the, this is the op we were talking about earlier where you’re at Kirmington.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And just take me through it again because this is, this is intriguing to me. You’re actually still lining up and the airfield is covered in fog.
JDB: Yeah. The whole of Lincolnshire was under a blanket of sea fog which had rolled in and it was there for a day or two.
HB: Right.
JDB: And you know we got up on, got out of bed early, very early, like 3 o’clock on Boxing Day being, still being under the influence a bit and I remember George -
HB: You’d had a good Christmas, you’d had a good Christmas.
JDB: Climbing up the ladder to get in to the aircraft. It wasn’t our aircraft actually. It was Alan Yates’ aircraft. Ours, ours was already got some mines loaded on it and once they were loaded on to an aircraft they were not taken off.
HB: Right.
JDB: Until they were dropped. So old George climbed up the ladder to get in and it slipped and he fell and it sobered him up.
HB: So you’d all been on the beer the night before then.
JDB: Well it was Christmas Day.
HB: For Christmas. Yeah.
JDB: We’d got a truce supposedly.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: And then there we were hurtling over frozen France.
HB: So, so you go out first thing in the morning, get the aircraft ready.
JDB: No. Well, it was ready. No -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: We went straight to briefing.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: When you got up, you get a bloke come in, at that time in the morning a corporal come around the hut saying, ‘Wakey wakey get your feet on the deck,’ you know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Briefing at so and so. And everybody did, you know.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Went and sat in the aeroplane and waited to hear some verey cartridges go off which were white ones. Scrub.
HB: What, what could you on that one, the first one on that day then what could you see from the aircraft?
JDB: Nothing.
HB: Absolutely nothing.
JDB: No, could just, you couldn’t see anything. It was absolutely dense and, but it was only about two hundred feet off the deck you see.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: It was like a blanket had been rolled down.
HB: Yeah. So that one got knocked on the head. That was -
JDB: Well it just scrubbed.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And you go back to the buses would take you back to the, we went back to the mess, I think, not even to the briefing room.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And then they’d say briefing again, re-briefing or, I can’t remember we had a re-brief or we went straight to the aircraft.
HB: Yeah and the second time obviously the aircraft is still bombed up and ready.
JDB: Yeah. All ready to go.
HB: And was that AS B Baker?
JDB: Well it wasn’t our aircraft.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: It was Alan Yates.
HB: Yeah sorry it’s in your book here AS B Baker. Yeah.
JDB: Baker. We considered to be ours was AS Charlie.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve noticed there’s a lot of AS Charlie in there.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Definitely. Yeah. So, so you’ve gone back to the aircraft and it, and it’s still covered in fog.
JDB: Yeah and we sit there and think are we going to get another scrub? We did have another scrub. We had two scrubs as I remember and then eventually we got there. Eventually we were waiting for the scrub and it came time to start engines and this time there was no scrub so we started the engines and then we see a marshaller with two bloody lamps doing this in front of him, ‘follow me,’ sort of thing
HB: So he was circling his lamps telling you to get in behind.
JDB: Yeah. Telling us to get going and we followed him to the end of the runway.
HB: Oh blimey.
JDB: And set the gyro up to the heading and let it go.
HB: So you’re actually taking off on a compass bearing as opposed to -
JDB: Yeah. That’s right. Absolutely.
HB: Visual.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Blimey. I bet that was a bit -
JDB: Yeah. It all worked alright as it happened. Yeah.
HB: I like that phrase. It all worked alright and there were, there were, I mean obviously no problems for yourself but I presume everybody else got off as well did they?
JDB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HB: And you say it was only up to about two hundred feet.
JDB: Yeah. You know. Sort of, we got off the deck and started climbing out and we were still on full boost and we were out in clear sky.
HB: Oh lovely.
JDB: Absolutely clear. Wonderful.
HB: So when you looked down all you can see is –
JDB: A blanket of fog.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And then, and then obviously the op starts. You’re off to St Vith.
JDB: Went down over the south coast somewhere. I think we crossed over the coast somewhere round about Brighton I should say.
HB: Yeah. And then what would you do? You’d sort of turn up a bit wouldn’t you?
JDB: Yeah. Yeah we did, we sort of -
HB: Go up to it.
JDB: Yeah. Went across the channel and then sort of turned left and headed towards Belgium I suppose.
HB: Yeah, because you had quite a, quite a good old bomb load on there.
JDB: Yeah. Well it was a short range, you see you used to measure it. If, if we went to the aircraft and we said, we would say to the armourers or the ground crew, say ‘How much petrol have we got on boys?’ They’d say, ‘You’ve got a full load skip.’ And say, oh in that case we’ve not got many bombs and we’re going a long way.
HB: Right.
JDB: If we’d got a full bomb load like seven tons it was a full bomb load and the minimum fuel. You wouldn’t be going very far.
HB: So you, you always had a rough idea.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: What you might expect before you even got to the briefing.
JDB: Well if we’d been out to the aircraft.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And checked. Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: In fact the last one, our last raid was to Zeitz, which was right over by Leipzig and you know being your last trip we thought oh bloody hell but then again we were getting well on over that way then.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was going to say because it’s pushed on now I mean, I mean St Vith I’ve given you that photograph of the Lancaster actually -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Involved in bombing St Vith. I mean it looked, it looked fairly clear as a target.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So I’m presuming, it’s like you said, I think you said to me on the phone that it was frosty and bright.
JDB: Oh yes it was.
HB: All the way.
JDB: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: All the way but you still managed to get yourself damaged by flak again.
JDB: Well we didn’t. No.
HB: Which is becoming a bit of a habit Derek.
JDB: We didn’t. No. I’ll tell you what there weren’t much flak at all because any flak that was coming up was a bit sporadic and it would be from their, you know their ATH which could be used as ground artillery or anti-aircraft.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: But, no there wasn’t much at all. It was when we got back we were in the circuit at Binbrook and we were going around and I was looking out of the window and it was on the starboard side and I was looking out the window I said.
HB: On the what side?
JDB: Starboard.
HB: On the starboard side.
JDB: Yeah
HB: Right.
JDB: I said, ‘Hey Skip, there’s a bloody hole in the wing.’ So he said, ‘Where?’ I said, ‘Well, between the two engines.’ And he said, ‘How big is it?’ I said, ‘I don’t know. About six inch across I suppose.’ He said, ‘Oh we’ll have a look when we get down.’ So when we landed we parked on the bloody grass somewhere. They had Lancasters parked everywhere at Binbrook.
HB: And that was because -?
JDB: It was the fog still.
HB: This is the business where Binbrook was sticking up out of the fog.
JDB: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
HB: The only one you could get in.
JDB: That’s right.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: So we got out and had a look at this bloody hole in the wing and it was a nice neat hole on top and underneath it was a jagged metal hanging down so obviously a shell had gone up and come down and gone through the wing coming down.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: And it didn’t explode.
HB: Oh that was lucky.
JDB: So we were dead lucky again.
HB: So how far away would that hole be from the fuel tanks then?
JDB: Right between them. It might have been clip on.
HB: Blimey. That’s another -
JDB: I’ve got a model of a Lanc somewhere with the fuel tanks in.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: So –
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I could show you a bit.
HB: Yeah I mean it’s, I mean that’s that’s another one like the other one goes off right next to the bomb bay and that one goes through right through.
JDB: Right.
HB: Right through the fuel tank. Do you want to grab your tea Derek because it will be getting cold?
JDB: Oh yeah. That’s alright. I let it get cold.
HB: Can you reach it? Do you want me to grab it?
JDB: No. It’s alright I can reach it.
HB: Right.
JDB: No problem.
HB: Yeah. ‘Cause that, I mean as I say the bits and bobs I’ve read about the St Vith raid was it, was it was, it was very accurate and it -
JDB: Well it should have been. It was in broad daylight.
HB: [It didn’t stop?]
JDB: At about I think we bombed from about ten thousand feet which was only about half our normal operational bombing height.
HB: Yeah. That’s, yeah that’s, that’s pretty, pretty tight there. And then we’re in to 1945.
JDB: I’ve got some battle orders. I don’t think I’ve got one for that. It tells you. Have you got any battle orders?
HB: I’ve seen them. I’ve seen them and they’ve got, they’ve got quite a few but I mean that’s that’s something, you know like I said we’ll come on to after we’ve -
JDB: Oh some people have got a load of them.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. When we’ve had a bit of a chat I’ll explain to you in more detail what we do about copying stuff and that.
JDB: Fair enough.
HB: But yeah I mean I mean we get to January and it says here this is to certify that Flight Sergeant Bailey JD has completed his first tour of operations.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: At 103 squadron Elsham Wolds and 166 squadron at Kirmington.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Blimey. So that’s what 44.35 hours with 103 and 130 hours 10 minutes with 166. One hundred and seventy four hours.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Which is a fair old time in the air that, Derek.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: What of that, of that as you obviously, you know you’ve come to the end of your tour. What, what was you feeling at that time about how Bomber Command were doing or how things were going?
JDB: Well I don’t know. I didn’t have any particularly hard feelings as far as I recall. I went home on leave and I had my twenty first birthday.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: No. I’ll rephrase that. I went home on leave, indefinite leave pending a posting.
HB: Right.
JDB: Somewhere else and eventually I got a gram, report 90, I think 90 OTU isn’t it at Lossiemouth?
HB: 20.
JDB: 20 OTU.
HB: Yeah two zero OTU.
JDB: Yeah, that’s it.
HB: It says Wellington.
JDB: That’s right.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Report Lossiemouth forthwith and so I spent then my twenty first birthday, all of it, travelling from South Wigston to bloody Lossiemouth.
HB: Oh dear. Well it’s, you know, I mean everybody else has a party. You were on a train. I suppose -
JDB: Well we all did it and I -
HB: Yeah.
JDB: You know, you wonder, well if I’d taken another day nobody would have even known.
HB: No. I was curious Derek because obviously we’ve got to, you know, early 1945.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And D-Day has happened and -
JDB: That’s right while well we -
HB: Heading for the Rhine and everything else. I just wondered how, you’ve done, you’ve done your tour, you know, you, you’ve spent that time in the air, and I was just was wondering how, what your reaction was. Like, you know your tour’s finished and how did you feel in yourself that things were going to go?
JDB: Well a bit of relief I suppose.
HB: Yeah. And what did you think the future held for you at that point? ‘Cause obviously the war’s still going on but -
JDB: Well, well what happened was I went to Lossiemouth as I would say and I was teaching. I was a bombing instructor. I did various courses and all the rest of it and I became commissioned and I was in the bomb plotting office one day and in, one of the flight commanders walked in and said, ‘I’m going back on ops, who’s coming? I want a bomb aimer.’ You know. And I said to him, I stepped forward and joined him and we got a crew together and we went off to Swinderby to join Tiger Force and we were going to Okinawa. That was what I thought at the time.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And then, I must have been bloody mad.
HB: Well I was just going to ask you the question Derek. You know when this, this sorry I’ve forgotten, I’ve forgotten the name your said that came in and said, ‘I need a bomb aimer.’
JDB: Oh you won’t know that. It was one of the flight commanders.
HB: Oh right. So, so nobody actually sort of -
JDB: Well he’s in there actually, as a pilot then when I was at Swinderby.
HB: Right. We’ve got Yates, Lomas, Kennedy, Richards. Oh no. That’s, you’re still instructing there I think.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: I think you’re still instructing there, Derek. Where are we? Hang on. Yeah. Circuits and landings. Ah 1660 Conversion Unit Swinderby.
JDB: That’s it.
HB: Johnson.
JDB: That’s him. Johnson.
HB: Flight lieutenant Johnson. Yeah.
JDB: Johnson.
HB: Because the question I was going to ask Derek was I mean I’ve heard of Tiger Force and I’ve done a little bit of reading about it but this guy comes in and says, ‘I’m looking for a bomb aimer,’ and did you actually, anybody, sort of think to sit people down and say, ‘Look. We’re forming Tiger Force and we’re going to go out to the Far East,’ or was it all just you know well sort of word of mouth. A rumour or something.
JDB: Well I don’t know. I mean it got whispered around I suppose. I mean Tiger Force was basically number 9 squadron.
HB: Right.
JDB: Well, it was, no, start again 5 Group.
HB: Right 5 Group. Yeah.
JDB: 5 Group became Tiger Force and this guy knew. He got to know somehow or other and he decided he wanted to go back on ops.
HB: Right.
JDB: And he was a squadron leader and to go back on ops he had to duck a, duck a rank. He went back to flight lieutenant.
HB: Flight Lieutenant. Oh right so ah that explains it then because it threw me. So he’s, he’s a wing commander.
JDB: No. No.
HB: Sorry a -
JDB: A squadron leader.
HB: A squadron leader but because he wants to carry on operationally.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Right. He then comes down to flight lieutenant -
JDB: Yes.
HB: While you’re at 1660 Conversion Unit at Swinderby.
JDB: Yes.
HB: Blimey because I mean, I’m looking, just looking in your logbook here so it’s all you know back to the trade.
JDB: That was Flight Lieutenant Johnson.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Oh that that makes sense now. That makes sense now. Lots and lots of cross country training and night, and a lot of night flying there.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: On that one.
JDB: We had to do that conversion because he did his first tour on Halifaxes.
HB: Yeah. Ah right. Yeah. That explains it then.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: That explains it. Yeah. And that takes you up to the 5th of September 1945 and then we’ve got 7th of September 1945 you’re signing, you’re signing that off and that’s your summary for number 1 course.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: I don’t know. It’s quite a lot of, there’s quite a lot of stuff in there Derek. It’s, I mean, we’re, I’m sort of skating over it a bit because I know, you know, you’ve written various things about your time there. I mean one of the things I’m interested in and the archive is interested in is you come, you come to, you come to the end of your time operationally.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You’re sitting at, where were you? I’ve forgotten where you were now? You’re still at Swinderby.
JDB: No. Operationally?
HB: Yeah.
JDB: No. I was at Kirmington.
HB: So you went, so, yeah. You finished at Kirmington on your tour of operations.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: You then go to Swinderby to do the conversion.
JDB: No.
HB: ‘Cause -
JDB: After, after Kirmington I went to Lossiemouth as an instructor.
HB: Ah right. Right. Yes. Sorry. Yes I’ve turned, I’ve turned two pages over in your book, in your logbook Derek. Unforgiveable really. Yes. That explains it and then from Lossiemouth you end up at Swinderby. So you come, you come to the end of that time and the war in Europe’s finished.
JDB: Yeah and the Japanese war.
HB: The Japanese, the Far East has finished. What did you, what was your feeling then? You’ve come to the end of it all. You’ve survived.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: How did you feel about all that?
JDB: Well, I wanted, at that point I wanted to stay in the Royal Air Force.
HB: Yeah.
IJDB: I didn’t want to come back to Civvy Street and I applied for a extended service commission.
HB: Yeah. Sorry -
JDB: So -
HB: That’s me knocking the table. Sorry mate.
JDB: It’s alright.
HB: Yeah, you, so you applied for -
JDB: An extended service commission.
HB: Right.
JDB: I was, at the time, when I, when I got to this I was, I became an equipment officer, made redundant aircrew and became an equipment officer. So I applied for an extended service commission and I couldn’t get an answer from air ministry despite being at a command headquarters and having access to the [peace tap?] that I still couldn’t get an answer so I had to make up my mind if I was going back to civvy street or not at that point and I was under threat from my employer who would have been, or my potential employer again, about, you know, saying, ‘You either come now, don’t you dare sign on for any longer. Either you come back now or there will be no job.’
HB: Right.
JDB: So I had to make my mind up and in the end I opted to come out. Yeah.
HB: So that would have been mixed feelings really then wouldn’t it?
JDB: I was, like so many other people Harry, I was confused.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I must say. I was confused.
HB: You know from other people I’ve spoken to it was the majority of people found it a difficult time. I mean in the wider context, I mean you’ve taken part with Bomber Command in, you know, a major part of the European war, and the theatre of war so what was, what were your feelings, what were your feelings about your part in all that?
JDB: I don’t know. I didn’t really consider it.
HB: Right.
JDB: I didn’t feel, are you talking about the guilt?
HB: What, however you felt about it.
JDB: No.
HB: You know, I’ve heard so many different -
JDB: No. I never felt any guilt whatsoever.
HB: Right.
JDB: Because I thought we were doing what was demanded of us to do and what we needed to be done.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And no more than that.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: But I know that some people did have reservations and, I don’t know. It’s a very very difficult question that, Harry.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: It really is.
HB: What, what did you think about any sort of support or the government’s view, after, afterwards?
JDB: Hereafter. Well there was a bit of cheating went on wasn’t there? I mean you’ve not mentioned the dreaded word have you?
HB: No. Go on. You carry on Derek.
JDB: And the dreaded word is, clever of me isn’t it? I can’t even remember the dreaded bloody word. What raised all the Cain about bombing? Where was it? In Eastern Germany.
HB: The target.
JDB: Yeah. The target. Yeah.
HB: Dresden.
JDB: Dresden. Thank you. That’s what caused all the trouble at the end was Dresden. I never bombed Dresden. I finished long before that. But if I’d been given orders to bomb Dresden I would have bloody bombed Dresden. End of story.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: To be honest I didn’t know enough about Dresden at the time.
HB: No.
JDB: I didn’t know enough, much about a lot of the places that I –
HB: No.
JDB: Plastered. But I mean the talk about Dresden and all the rest of it you could equally pick on places like Freiburg, or Freiburg which is in my book.
HB: Yes.
JDB: There was, the casualties in Freiburg were nearly as horrendous as, as Dresden and that was not for the type of place it was but they got it wrong. Somebody got it very very wrong on an intelligence basis because Freiburg was meant to be packed full of troops defending the Rhine.
HB: Right.
JDB: At it’s southern end.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And it proved not to be the case but it was very lightly defended. It was, it was, as far as Bomber Command was concerned it was an easy target really.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And I do think that some people, including me had certain misgivings about that when we knew but we didn’t know at the time. We didn’t know. It was just another target but it was afterwards when they released information that you thought well that really, really wasn’t quite right you know.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: But what can you do? You can’t put the clock back.
HB: No. That’s, that’s true. That’s true.
JDB: And whether any other places came up like that I really don’t know.
HB: No. I mean it obviously you’ve come to the end of your RAF and you’ve made that difficult decision to -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: To pick up your civilian life again.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: So, what, you come back to Leicestershire to start working for, was it Edling?
JDB: Edling
HB: Yeah
JDB: And then we had nationalisation of the transport industry if you recall.
HB: No. I’m still a bit slightly a bit young for that Derek.
JDB: Yes.
HB: But yes I have read about it.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: And so -
HB: So by now you’re twenty, twenty two.
JDB: What? When I came out?
HB: No. Yeah twenty, just trying to work it out. Twenty -
JDB: I was twenty three.
HB: You were, yeah twenty three.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Sorry. So you’re twenty three. Footloose and fancy free. You’ve got your demob suit and your RAF half a wing.
JDB: [laughs] Yeah.
HB: And what’s, what’s Bill Bailey doing, doing now? What’s he, what were you -
JDB: What? Now, Bill
HB: What were you looking forward to then? You’ve picked up your civilian life again.
JDB: Well I was working in the transport industry. I moved on to another company. I spent forty years with Star Roadways. Over forty years actually and that’s it. What one might call a normal life I suppose.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I spent twenty years in the Air Training Corps.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: After I’d, after a spell. I retired when I was fifty six so, and I did twenty years so I must have been thirty six when I got talked into doing the Air Training Corps.
HB: Because you, ‘cause you got, you got a rank through the Air Training Corps didn’t you?
JDB: Oh yeah. I retired as squadron leader.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I got a letter from the air ministry. Well it’s not the air ministry is it? But thanking me for my service.
HB: Just, just stepping back now into the war just two quick sort of questions for, just for you to have a think about. Tell me. What was, what was the silliest daftest thing you can remember?
JDB: The daftest?
HB: Yeah. In your, in your service, in your operations.
JDB: That I did.
HB: Well whoever, whatever.
JDB: Oh.
HB: As long as it’s clean mind.
JDB: I think, I think [laughs] I require notice of that one.
HB: Well that’s why I don’t tell people.
[pause]
JDB: Oh dear. I don’t know. The daftest thing. There must have been some.
HB: Yeah. Did you, did you all go out as a crew to the pub when you were on stand down?
JDB: Well, we did in, especially up at Kirmington yeah.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Because there was nowhere else to go other than the pub in the village.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Which was called the Marrowbone and Cleaver. Commonly known as The Chopper. And -
HB: How did you get down there? Bike. Bus.
JDB: Well no it was only -
HB: Anything with wheels.
JDB: [a bit?] away from where we, where the huts were. We were in Brocklesby Wood in nissen huts. It was a, what did I, I don’t know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: I can’t think off-hand of any particularly wild thing.
HB: We’ll perhaps, we’ll perhaps leave that one and -
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Let you come back to that.
JDB: Except when I gave a girl a lift from Barnetby station back to camp on the cross bar of my bloody bike. I got talking to her on the train coming from Lincoln.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And apparently she was going to Kirmington.
HB: Was she a WAAF then or –
JDB: Yeah she was a WAAF.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: She became a good friend and I mean that. Only.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Only that. Wouldn’t have anything else I think.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: The WAAFs were very cagey actually you know.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And rightly so.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And I think it was that you put yourself in the position of a WAAF if you started getting to a very serious situation she’d probably think well Christ I might get pregnant and he might get killed next week.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: You know.
HB: Yeah. What was, when you, I mean you moved off Wellingtons and you moved on to lancs?
JDB: Yeah.
HB: What was your relationship with your ground crew like?
JDB: Very very good.
HB: Did you always have the same ground crew?
JDB: Well, when we were at Peplow on Wellingtons no I don’t think we got to know the ground crew hardly at all. Really.
HB: Right. Right.
JDB: On the squadron it was different.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: You were more a team there, there and one of our ground crew was on leave when we did our last operation but he came, he came back from leave to meet us, to see us when we arrived back from our last trip -
HB: Wow.
JDB: That’s the sort of guys they were and funnily enough, where was it I got posted to? Bloody hell.
HB: Was that - ?
JDB: Oh I know. When we got posted to Lossiemouth. That’s right. I and my skipper both got posted to Lossiemouth. When I went up there to be an instructor George went as well and when I got there after that long trip I went down, down the road in the morning and there was an officer coming towards me so I slung one up as you do and then I realised it was my skipper. Yeah.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: And then I met a bloke, a bloke did the opposite to me later on and, an airman, and he turned out to be our bloody engine mechanic.
HB: Oh right he’s air mech.
JDB: And I couldn’t believe it. Ginge we called him.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And he turned out he’d been posted somewhere and he was the bloody camp postman. He’d been made redundant.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: Wow yeah.
JDB: I can’t remember where that happened now.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: Oh dear.
HB: Did you, did you manage to keep in touch with your crew after the war?
JDB: Now, that is a very very, what’s the word I want? I don’t know? A funny question because we didn’t.
HB: Right.
JDB: For a, for a long time, no. George, George the skipper he died quite young. He got a DFC by the way, he did.
HB: Did he? Right. Yeah.
JDB: When he’d finished a tour of ops a captain gets a DFC.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And apparently, I didn’t meet him but George died quite young. He was a rugby player rugby league. Played at Wakefield. And he died. I kept in touch with my navigator for quite a number of years. He, ‘cause he emigrated to Canada and he worked in a hospital in Ottawa.
HB: Oh right.
JDB: And I did meet up with him. He used to come over to the UK every year and I did used to meet with him and we used to have squadron reunions up at Hull and I met up with. I’ve got some photographs actually.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: About, how many of us were there? There was myself, Wally, Wally Williams we located and he was my, the flight engineer. He had a bloody hip replacement operation and it killed him.
HB: Oh dear.
JDB: Ron died a few years ago in Ottawa. The mystery is I’ve never, I’ve not been able to find any trace by any means of the gunners. The two gunners. And quite recently I’ve come to a conclusion that it’s possible because during our tour they, I know that Paddy missed a couple of flights with us and we had to take a spare bod and I think it might have applied to both of them. Now if it did when we finished our tour of operations they would have to stay there on the squadron and finish their thirty operations.
HB: Oh right. Yes.
JDB: Spare bodding with somebody else.
HB: Yeah.
JDB: And it may be that they did that and were lost.
HB: Right.
JDB: I don’t, I really don’t know and it’s, I’ve tried all manner of ways of trying to find them and I can’t.
HB: You know, I mean there are one or two bits and bobs now on the internet. We can, we can perhaps have a little look into but well that’s, I thank you for that Derek. Yeah.
JDB: Oh and you know and otherwise, oh Wally Williams we found late on and then he had this hip replacement and died and then his wife lived in Chichester and I’ve not heard from them for a few years so I think she must have passed away as well.
HB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
JDB: Who else was there?
HB: You got -
JDB: Oh Gus I think is still alive. Up in Ripon I think.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the one you just sent the card to.
JDB: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: What was his name? Wilf?
JDB: Leigh. Wilf Leigh.
HB: Wilf Leigh. Yeah.
JDB: L E I G H.
HB: Right. Wow. That’s made. What, what I want to do Derek is I’m going to finish the actual interview now.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: But obviously there’s some other bits and bobs and I’d like if possible to come back.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: In the future to speak to you again.
JDB: Yeah.
HB: And we’ll record that and we’re just going to have a look through your bag of goodies today. So it’s now twenty to five. It’s, we’re fortunately we’re still on the 7th of December 2016. We haven’t gone around the clock so I’m just going to terminate the interview at this, at this time and then there will obviously be a phase two.
JDB: Yeah. Ok
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with John Derek "Bill" Bailey. One
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Harry Bartlett
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-07
Format
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01:57:37 audio recording
Identifier
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ABaileyJD161207
PBaileyJD1607
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
Type
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Sound
Description
An account of the resource
John Derek ‘Bill’ Bailey volunteered for the Air Force when he was 18 and trained as a bomb aimer in Canada. When he arrived he caught scarlet fever and spent five weeks in an isolation hospital. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 103 and 166 Squadrons from RAF Elsham Wolds and RAF Kirmington.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
103 Squadron
166 Squadron
83 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
Bolingbroke
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
crash
crewing up
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lysander
Master Bomber
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kirmington
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Swinderby
RAF Torquay
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/475/8357/PBoyntonS1512.1.jpg
b8f48f9aeb2acc9b01ed571e88e5da23
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/475/8357/ABoyntonS150624.1.mp3
0ed41bfbe8c8db1cab395ef730cc5b81
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Boynton, Stuart
Thomas Stuart Boynton
T S Boynton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Boynton, S
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Stuart Boynton (1622415 Royal Air Force), He served as an air gunner with 103 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Stuart Boynton and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
TSB. 1923,19,1939 I left Bridlington Grammar School eh, then, which I didn’t join the RAF straight away I joined the Air Training Corps, I was in there for about a year and a half. The war had already started after about a year and a half I thought well I’ll volunteer for Aircrew, which I went down to London, passed with flying colours, as I think and after that I was eh. I am trying to think where I went after various placed in the RAF in England. I was in Harrogate, I was in, up at South Shields. Then, I am trying to think of it, dates. That’s 1939 so, in after I had been in the RAF a few months I was posted to South Africa and my first wife and I then decided, ‘shall we get married and save the money until the war’s finished?’ Which, I got married when I was only twenty it was in the February ’43. And eh, the next within a week of being married I was transferred to South Africa where I, where I was on the Ansons, flying in the Ansons. On returning from South Africa about a year afterwards I as posted to LLandwrog in Wales. While in Wales there was quite a lot of flying the Anson again and eh just before my birthday which was 21st of March 1924, 1924 yes my first birthday my I was, my was transferred, I was transferred and posted to Finningley which is now Doncaster Airfield. So, so in February 1923, I was born in ’23, 1943 I was flying to South Africa which I say after South Africa I went to LLandwrog. Getting to Finningley which is on 21st birthday which was 1944 I was travelling from LLandwrog to Finningley with a kit bag over my shoulder, that was my 21st birthday. So consequently I flew from Finningley, I was on the Wellingtons for a short time. Eh, a leaflet trip to Holland dropping leaflets then from Finningley I went to Lindholme just down the road onto Halifax’s. While there I had a leaflet trip again to Holland and then from Lindholme I was posted to Hemswell onto the Lancasters. From Hemswell I was posted to Elsham, that’s where I did my first operation. I am only guessing now, Elsham I should say get to Elsham some time in September which was ’44. Our first operational trip was early I should say early November and I you ask me what that was like I can only answer [unclear] It was absolutely horrendous. The flak and everything else was shocking we were caught in the eh, eh the searchlights. Anyway with a bit of luck we got home safely. I just said to skipper ‘I am pleased were back from that,’ I said ‘ thirty trips like this we will double grave before we get to thirty trips.’ Anyway that was all right, we went into land, as we landed we flew straight off the airfield. The plane went up on its side we were straight off, all flat tyres. so that was the first one. After that most of our trips was over what we call the Happy Valley which was the German Steel places, Essen, most of mine was to Essen. Anyway we flew to Essen, we was very pleased to get back. Anyway we did about another ten trips after that ten or eleven trips after that. A couple of pretty bad ones after that but the biggest majority were what you call very easy. The last one we never made as we were coming on our way back, we had a very easy trip, a very quiet trip. The Rear Gunner said ‘We got a; fighter on our port side Skipper.’ Anyway he tried to do the evasive did a bit of a mm a mm, tried to get rid of him anyway. Consequently after about ten minutes, half an hour. Oh I thought we were on our way home. The next thing I knew was the Pilot saying ‘Abandon aircraft were on fire.’ I said, I was I went off in rotation. Just as I was going I saw, three [unclear] last thing I remember saying to my Skipper ‘I’ll see you down stairs Phil.’ With that I was pulling me ‘chute, just as I was pulling me ‘chute, I just heard on intercom the Rear Gunner say ‘Christ I’ve pulled me ‘chute.’ With that I’d gone, I didn’t know what happened after that. But what happened after that I was, only left on the plane was the Pilot, the Rear Gunner and the Mid Upper both the Gunners were Canadians. The young lad I thought I was the ablest, the youngest twenty one. Eddie was only just turned eight, nineteen for all I know he panicked and wouldn’t jump with the Mid Upper, Canadian, wanted him to jump with him, but he refused to jump. ‘No I’m not jumping.’ So all the Pilot said to Mid Upper ‘Get yourself off I’ll try to land the plane.’ The Mid Upper said, he jumped, as his ‘chute opened, all he saw was the wing dropped off with that the plane went straight into the ground, both killed. I have always said, I have always tried to find out to find out why this time, he was a bit older than me but had got two daughters. His wife had left Jersey, she was living in a hotel. Where ever he went she was living in hotels. So what she was left with was two daughters, no home to go to. I said I’ll, I always said he should have got decorated but he never did. So that is about all that I can say about that. So anyway when we was, when we were shot down we were taken to just a little village near from where we was shot down. They had seen us coming down so we had no chance of escaping. So they put me into a billet a Nissan hut with about thirty young Germans in. As I went in I was the only one of the crew that at the time, they found. I thought ‘well I am going to get knocked about here with all these lads.’ I had been in there about half an hour, one of them sidled up to me ‘there you are,’ gave me a bit of their ersatz bread. I thought it was awful, I put it in me pocket. Anyway about another half hour went by another young lad came, German lad, could speak, he could speak a bit of English. He just said ‘ me was a prisoner of Americans me look after you.’ With that he gave me a couple of blankets for the night. That is about all I could say about them, they were very good. But even today I still think now that would be December 1944 we were shot down. Even today he said, ah that is what he did say to me, ‘We have,’ when I was in this Nissan hut, ‘you have broken our lines we are now going to push you back.’ I never thought anything more about that at all until after the war. It must have been what you called ‘The Battle of the Bulge.’ So automatically now I often think ‘ I wonder if there are any of these young lads still living today?’ That’s all, that’s all I can say about that one. So after that we, we I was posted to eh, I can’t remember the name where was it, posted into Poland and one night, one morning woke up, right evacuating the camp. The Russians were coming very close to where, to where we were, so we had to, as the Russians were advancing we had to march away from them. So we were on, in the middle of winter, we were marching until about one or two in the morning carried on might have been one or two weeks, I don’t know. But there again I was one of the lucky ones, the last morning we were on the walk we’d get into farm, I’d went into the farm I were in the barn. I was one of the last in the barn and this would be one o’clock in the morning. When I woke up, whatever time it was, I don’t know all I can say it was light, it could have been five o’clock in the morning. There I was laid outside where it was twenty degrees below. I went, I couldn’t, me hands were, I couldn’t get me hands together, me feet was frozen, I said ‘ the only thing if the lads lit a fire.’ Got warmed up within two or three hours we were back on the wa,march again. So consequently we marched and again for another week, how long I don’t know. Once again I was very lucky one day they just piled all our section, our section were piled into rail trucks and how many were in the trucks I don’t know how we got on for weeing or whatever I don’t know how we got on about that. All I know before it took us about a day a day and a half on this truck, finished up somewhere near Berlin. That is when the Russians liberated us which was what I gather, I don’t know. I don’t know [unclear] prisoners. Once again I would be guessing but it was sometime in April time, May. I don’t know when the war finished. But once they, I always remember the Russians coming through our camp knocking all the fences down. There were men and women on the tanks, just the same and I must admit at the time I thought ‘well they are just like a pack a bandit these lot.’ We got on well with them, they didn’t bother with us, we didn’t bother with them. They would not, we were there two or three weeks at least, the Americans sent a couple of Troops to move us and they said ‘ you are going when it is out turn, we will let you know when you are going.’ So we got fed up of waiting, one day we set off from the camp ‘we will make our way to the Elbe to get across ourselves.’ So we [unclear] a mile down the road next thing we got, the Russians were in front of us back to the camp ‘ you go when we tell you.’ Consequently eh why I know a bit about the time there eh when they did allow us to go we got to Brussels, we got a bit of money, we got showered and everything, money we had a night out in, in Brussels. Consequently when I got back home my second birthday was May the 23rd 1945, So but, so consequently I didn’t get back for me twenty first, I didn’t get back until after me birthday which would be after the 23rd 1945. Consequently I was one of the last prisoners back so I got indefinite leave. So indefinite leave I was posted, well I was in Bridlington, got posted to Scarborough so I was backwards and forwards from Brid to Scarborough for about three or four months. Finally when the war finished they decided aircrew you could [unclear] aircrew but you could only go as ground crew. I just had to come out, I came out of the forces. So that’s about all I can tell you, that’s about it in a nutshell. That’s about all I could say. My Pilot was one of the last to leave Jersey before the Germans occupied Jersey. He was on the last boat to leave, his wife went with him, a young girl, went with him. They got married before they [unclear] over to England and where ever he was posted, Phil, she was in the hotel somewhere. She followed him around so there she was when he got shot down she was stood there on her own with two kids and that’s why I think he should have got married. The main thing of all so consequently I knew Phil only five months of my life and for seventy odd years I have never forgotten him [appears upset].
MJ. You shouldn’t you don’t have to worry, that’s part of it you see.
TSB. Yeah and all that I can say is that a marvellous lad, man, fellow.
MJ. Do you remember his full name, do you remember his full name, do you remember his name?
TSB. Phillip.
MJ. Do you remember his surname?
TSB. Picot that all it was and consequently I mentioned the two daughters and his three aunties all the rest of the family have all died. But the daughters have married very well they are very happy. Two lovely families two and two and eh three aunties I think they have all lost their husbands. But they are all lovely people, lovely people.
MJ. Went to London for your medical ?. [?].[unclear]
TSB. Yeah I can’t think [unclear] I know I went from Kings Cross [unclear] I walked from Kings Cross I can’t remember where it was now but I nineteen, as I say about eighteen to nineteen I was twenty three ‘40 to 1942 I should think would be when I came in forces, long time [laugh]. But eh no at least I have often said eh you have got your memories haven’t you, they are worth a lot your memories. That is why I get so sentimental with Phil my Pilot because as I say I only knew him five months. We were very friendly, we were very very friendly. Not many days gone bye without I think something about him.
MJ. What made you so friendly, what what ?
TSB. I don’t know, just the crew, I think during the war you you, fact, you you made up as a crew, seven of you and I think they tried to keep that crew as separate as they could. So in other words eh anybody lost they weren’t missed as much, they look after themselves because each crew was more or less, they look after themselves. So whenever we went down to the pub the seven of us went out together eh at least most nights of the week, five or six but we always stuck together all the time we were flying. Your mates, you were what you call mates as simple as that. In other words at the end of the day unless you were lucky, you died together. But eh I say I have these thoughts many a time but I am very happy and [unclear] I have had a marvellous life, marvellous life. As I say one of my old aunties I used to see her ninety five or so, she fell down stairs, I have not forgot she turned round to us and she said ‘Stuart I don’t want anybody to live as long as I have lived,’ she said ‘ I am not ready for going yet’ she lived till ninety seven well I got to ninety two now and she was definitely the eldest of all of my family. If I could get to ninety eight whither I do or not, grace of Gods is that. Eh but if I get to ninety eight I shall finish up as the eldest one in the family that’s it.[laugh]. But she was a right battle axe was my auntie, she taught me a lot and I still think of her at ninety seven anyway I’ve got to ninety two whither I get to ninety five by the grace of God, you don’t know, you don’t know. One thing certain and a betting man and I used to like betting on the horses and that as a betting man one certainty is we all know we have to die sometime. It’s a good job we don’t know when. We do we all know we have got to go sometime. And I say when I talk about luck if I get to a hundred very good but whither I do or not you don’t know. There is a lot of luck in life as well you know some people are born lucky and some are [unclear]. And I don’t know about you, you had an accident didn’t you. Was it motor accident you had then?
MJ. Em I’ll make sure this is on, go on.
TSB. After the war my mother, well during the war my mother got a telegram eh, just missing. So she went berserk, demented, crackers then of course shortly after that, presumed killed. So that she is worse than ever then about a month after that somebody came dashing into mums shop at Hilderthorpe Road End Bridlington saying ‘Nellie, Nellie, Stuarts alive, Stuarts alive.’And how they got to know that, not from the Air Ministry it was given over the news by Lord Haw Haw that Flight Sergeant Boynton is now a prison of war in Germany. That’s the first time my Mother new I was living. And it wasn’t, she didn’t get it from the RAF or the Ministry, Lord Haw Haw made it over the news one night, one day that’s first thing, first time she knew I was living. [laugh] killed presumed dead, it was a totally different thing when she knew I was still living you see.
MJ. On behalf of the International Bomber Command I would like to thank Warrant Officer Stuart Boynton on the date of the 24th of June 2014. Thank you very much my name is Michael Jeffery.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Stuart Boynton Interview
Creator
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Mick Jeffery
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-24
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Sound
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ABoyntonS150624, PBoyntonS1512
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
During 1939 Stuart left grammar school and joined the Air Training Corps. After about half a year he volunteered for air crew and was accepted. He and his girlfriend were married in February 1943. Stuart was posted to South Africa working on Ansons and about a year later was posted to Llandwrog in Wales. His next postings were to RAF Finningley, flying in Wellingtons and to Holland dropping leaflets from a Halifax. From RAF Finningley he went to RAF Lindholme, RAF Hemswell and RAF Elsham Wolds. Stuart described his first operational trip as absolutely horrendous. Most of the crew’s trips were then to the Ruhr and the German steel works in Essen. After that they did another ten or eleven trips. During the last trip the crew had to abandon the aircraft when it was shot down and burst into flames. All but two of the crew (one being the pilot, Phil Picot) baled out before the aircraft hit the ground. Stuart was captured and taken to a hut which housed about 30 Germans, but he was treated well. Stuart was detained in Poland. Their camp had to evacuate during a winter night as the Russians were advancing. They were marching for two or three weeks before being taken to a camp in Berlin by rail. They were liberated and eventually Stuart was posted to RAF Scarborough. He came out of the at the end of the war and said he had had a marvellous life.
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
Poland
South Africa
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Essen
Wales--Carmarthen
Netherlands
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1943-02
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:23:24 audio recording
aircrew
Anson
bale out
bombing
Halifax
Lancaster
love and romance
military ethos
pilot
prisoner of war
propaganda
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Finningley
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Llandwrog
the long march
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/488/8372/ACanningsDP150811.1.mp3
60c10de0afd2927cc4910a888db911ef
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Cannings, Percy
Douglas Percy Cannings
D P Cannings
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Cannings, DP
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Percy Cannings DFM (1923 - 2016, 1809247 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 100 and 97 Squadrons.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Percy Cannings and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AS: This is an interview with Warrant Officer Percy Cannings DFM, a mid-upper gunner on 100 and then 97 Squadron. My name is Adam Such and the interview is being conducted at Buckden, Cambridge on the 11th of August 2015 for the International Bomber Command Centre digital archive. Percy, thanks ever so much for agreeing to this interview.
PC: That’s ok.
AS: I would like to set the scene by asking you to describe your life before joining the Air Force, where you born, a bit about your home, your parents, and sisters, that sort of thing.
PC: Yeah, Yeah, I was born in West Sussex, in a little village called Stedham, near Midhurst. My father was a head gardener and he worked at an estate um, which was owned by a Captain Cobb. He was wounded in the first war and lost a leg, and he still carried on working, virtually, as if he wasn’t, um, what’s the word, injured, or what’s the word for it? In fact, he carried on and constructed a ha ha, if you know what that is, basically on his own, so that his estate looked over the field without the fences in the way, which consisted of a few cows and horses which he used for riding. My two brothers, I had two elder brothers and two younger sisters, my two elder brothers had already joined up in the Air Force, both of them in aircrew [coughs]. My eldest brother was um, they were both wireless op air gunners, and he, Eric, he flew in, Wellingtons before the war, and he crashed on take-off, the day, two days before the war, lost an engine on take-off, but they both got out ok. The whole crew got out ok, but he lost his nerve for flying, and in those days, they classed him as LMF. He volunteered later on for, um, my memory for words.
AS: No worries. If we walk away from it, it’ll come back, won’t it?
PC: Yes, um —
AS: [Laughs]
PC: Oh, what’s the word?
AS: Is it ground duties or a different service?
PC: He volunteered for the commandos —
AS: Good Lord, ok.
PC: And he spent the rest of the war out in North Africa, basically Italy.
AS: Wow.
PC: The other one, the younger one, Arthur, he went in to Coastal Command and he was on Catalina’s, yeah, anti-submarine patrols. I suppose that’s what encouraged me to do the same, but unfortunately, I didn’t have enough, um, sterling to be anything other than an air gunner, so, I was called up at eighteen, or just after eighteen, I reported for duty in 1943, I think it was. I went to [pauses] Lords cricket ground to join up, where I had my kit, all my kit, issued, and um, introduced to square bashing [laughs], which we, we always had to do that. After about three weeks, I was then, sent to Number 9, air gunnery school in Llandrog, in North Wales, spent about five weeks there um, then 1656 Conversion Unit, which is in Lindholme, introduced to first of all the four engine planes, the Halifax and then on to the Lancaster. That lasted about four or five weeks. Got crewed up at the 1656 and um, and it was, I don’t know how we got together, but we did [laughs]. I had a Canadian skipper, Ken Harvey [pauses], the navigator was [pauses] oh, names.
AS: It’s seventy years, isn’t it, it’s a long gap.
PC: Hang on a minute. Right, he was a sergeant and Canadian. Then another sergeant, Geoff Mander from York, bomb aimer, Jim Crake from Scotland, Harry Woods, wireless op, and he was from Mansfield. Sergeant Andy Barr from Scotland, Gordon Brown, rear gunner, myself as mid upper and then on to Lancasters. Transferred then to 100 Squadron, which was then situated at Bourne, near Cambridge. This was early February.
AS: In 1944?
PC: Yeah, 1944, err, ‘43. My first op, was on the 4th of March ‘43, on mining and that lasted about eight and a half hours which was quite long, and then another one to Nuremberg. We suffered two attacks by fighters on that occasion, and just after bombing, we were coned by searchlights which, the skipper slung us all over the sky trying to get out of it, and I swear we must have been upside down because at some point the contents of the [unclear] finished up all over me and the inside the plane. We lost all of our night vision and nearly completely blind for the foreseeable future. Luckily no further incidents occurred on this occasion and I finished my first tour, then being sent to 83 OTU at Peplow, I forget where that is.
AS: As an instructor?
PC: In Peplow?
AS: As an instructor in the OTU?
PC: As an instructor, yeah, and that lasted until the 15th of March ‘44 and called in to the office to say, “you are required back on ops” [laughs], and to report to Flying Officer Reid on [pause], arriving at the guardroom at around six o’clock in the evening. I leave all my kit in the guardroom, because I hadn’t got time to —
AS: Flying that night?
PC: That’s it. I had to go to see this, in the briefing room, see this flying officer, where I met up with my second skipper, and we went off out to Stuttgart that night.
AS: With a crew you’d not flown with before?
PC: Yep, Yep, they had lost their mid upper gunner due to bad eyesight, and consequences are, I went to make up their crew.
AS: And this was now 97 Squadron?
PC: 97, yep, yep. And I realised then that it was Pathfinders, so hence my hesitance for this particular bit of writing. My introduction as a Pathfinder. I didn’t get me pre-op meal on that occasion but I got it when I got back. Up until the [pauses], I did daylights for the first time on the first, second and third of, whatever the month is, I thought of writing this out, anyway, the first, second, third, and then on the fifth. Then a night time to Chateau la Roche, which I think is in France, and then finally another daylight to Deelen. This proved to be my last op on bombing, and the Lanc in front of us was hit from another one above us, and this resulted in an explosion that almost got us as well as, on return carried the scars so from call up to September 1942 to 15th three ‘44, I’d become a Pathfinder in about five months. That’s basically up to the, err, ‘44, and then I went again to another OTU for further instruction, and that lasted until the end of the war. Um, but in between, I had to re-muster to driver MT because air crew were no longer needed, but at that time, the Japan war was still going on, so we had to prepare for that, but luckily my de-mob time came up in between, so I didn’t have to go out there.
AS: Shall we pause there?
PC: Yeah, ok.
AS: Percy, if I could, I’d like to back in to your training a little bit. I know when you got your call up papers, you went up to the recruiting centre at Lords. What sort of things were they doing to you there? Was it instant square bashing?
PC: Instant square bashing, yeah. After, err, we did some aircraft recognition, which, was obviously of use.
AS: Were you mustered together straight away with other air gunners or was it —
PC: Mainly other air gunners, yeah, yeah —
AS: Ok.
PC: Or trainee air gunners [laughs], and the instructors of course. We were on [pause} Blenheims.
AS: Blenheims?
PC: Yeah, in the turret and on the Blenheim.
AS: Airborne?
PC: Yes
AS: These must have been old aircraft by that stage. Were they mechanically reliable, did you have confidence in them?
PC: As far as I know. We had one or two DNCO, no target, flying scrubbed. Yeah, and we did some cine gun, cine gun and under on the Spitfires and Hurricanes that pursued us [laughs].
AS: Did you get em?
PC: No, [laughs]. We had, the targets we had were towed by another plane usually, [pauses] what was it, I’ve got it down somewhere.
AS: They used to use all sorts of things, didn’t they? Masters and Martinet?
PC: Martinet, that’s the name. I had a very short trip in one of those.
AS: Was there much classroom based training as well?
PC: Much what?
AS: Was there much training in the classroom? Or in simulators?
PC: I presume there must have been, but I didn’t get it registered as such. We were flying first, eight, eight, eight three times on the eighth of the month 8th of November ‘42, one on the ninth, two on the 12th, two on the 13th, two on the 15th, three on the 17th, one on the 20th.
AS: Wow, so it’s quite high pressure.
PC: Yes, it was [pause]. I presume we must have had some innovation on the guns, but we had to strip them down, set them out, identify the bits, and also in the dark. But what use that was later on, how can you strip a gun out twenty-one thousand feet, with nothing to put it on?
AS: Service training is not always famous for getting it right.
PC: What use that was to us, I don’t know.
AS: Did you make friendships with the people you were training with?
PC: Not to my knowledge no, I never communicated with any of them either before or after.
AS: Ok.
PC: Not that I can remember of it. I must have most likely been with some of them sometime or other but —
AS: Can you remember passing out? Did you have a passing out parade with family and a band or —
PC: No, we had a photograph taken.
AS: Were you presented with your flying badge or did you go and draw it from the stores [laughs]?
PC: I can’t remember.
AS: It doesn’t matter.
PC: But I was surprised by my friends when I went home on leave for the first time, just around Christmas time, to be a sergeant with my brevet and in full Air Force uniform. My school mates couldn’t believe it.
AS: Very short time, from, from getting the papers to -
PC: About five, err, eight or nine weeks, something like that.
AS: Do you know what your parents felt about having yet another son going up in the air to —
PC: Well it must have been hell for them but —
AS: Didn’t talk about it?
PC: No.
AS: Did you volunteer for Bomber Command? Did you know you were going to Bomber Command?
PC: I volunteered for aircrew, I didn’t know what I would be in.
AS: Ok.
PC: But err, one thing led to the other so I finished up in Bomber Command.
AS: So, you have leave after training?
PC: Yeah.
AS: And then straight in to the squadron, sorry, the —
PC: 1516 Conversion Unit and then straight on to the squadron.
AS: You say you were flying Halifaxes at the conversion unit?
PC: Initially yeah.
AS: The conversion unit —
PC: 3rd, 9th, 6th, 13th, 15th, 17th, the last one we went to, which was a bit hairy, we lost sight of the ground because of haze, no idea where the aerodrome was, so skipper called out a mayday but he got safely down at the finish, but the engines cut out on the perimeter so we wouldn’t have been much longer in the air.
AS: So, really, really, short of fuel.
PC: Yes, yes it lasted a total of three hours sixty-five, forty-five, but we got down in time.
AS: So, can you remember, how, what sort of flying you did at the conversion unit? What sort of exercises you were doing?
PC: Basically, circuits and landings, local flying. Familiarisation, circuits and landings, homing and air firing, circuits and landings. That was when we went up on to the Lancaster for the first time.
AS: Did you very quickly feel confident as a crew that you were working well together.
PC: Yeah, yeah, the skipper was soon made up to pilot officer, but all the rest have stayed as sergeants.
AS: What sort of a leader was he, did he drive you, did he encourage you? Was he very keen on —
PC: He was more or less one of us and whatever the skipper did, we did [laughs] basically so I suppose you could say he led us.
AS: What, what was it like, going on to the squadron? Can you remember what you felt like when you were going to put it all into practice?
PC: Well we knew we were going to train for operations and it didn’t take long in coming. Did some cross countries and bullseyes.
AS: What were bullseyes?
PC: Pardon?
AS: What were bullseyes?
PC: It’s just a, you were told to fly to a certain place at a certain time, from there to another place at a certain time in order to try and keep on time, basically.
AS: So, that’s sort of like a practice bombing mission but over England?
PC: Yeah, over England or Scotland or whatever.
AS: When you were airborne, what were your duties?
PC: Just to keep a look out basically.
AS: Day and night?
PC: Yeah, yeah, day and night. Not that we had to look at a lot at night, except to try and help the navigator by reporting what, [pause] every station had a call sign which was in Morse with a red light, and you reported how many you could see of these which helps the navigator know where he was.
AS: So, you obviously learnt Morse as part of your gunnery training.
PC: Oh yeah.
PC: Only basic Morse, I can’t remember any of it now, just SOS, yes [laughs].
AS: My dad was a wireless operator but in a tank, not in an aeroplane.
PC: My two brothers err, err, did that, and of course they were wireless ops.
AS: You must have had a fantastic view from the mid upper turret on the Lancaster.
PC: Yeah, yeah except from underneath [laughs].
AS: Which counted, yeah, yeah. The actual sensation of flying itself did you enjoy it? Did you very quickly enjoy it?
PC: Took to like a duck.
AS: Yeah? Just the sheer enjoyment of, of, being up there? Did that, did that stay with you?
PC: More or less, yeah, yeah. Never thought we were going to get it but [laughs] it’s always the other guy.
AS: And did your crew really try to lengthen the odds by, for instance, doing lots of practices, dinghy drills, things like that? Was your skipper keen on doing that or —
PC: My skippers, both of them, they practised the weaving.
AS: Yeah?
PC: Never flew straight and level for very long at any one time but it was always fairly predictable for the navigator to know exactly what we were doing.
AS: So, so, both of them hand flew?
PC: Yeah.
AS: Maybe six, eight hours.
PC: Sometimes nine and a half.
AS: Always weaving?
PC: Yeah, Yeah, they must have been sweating when they came out, because they had the heating, we didn’t, it was bloody cold [laughs].
AS: Yeah, even, well you, you had the Perspex, and you had electrically heated clothing?
PC: Yeah, yeah, of course, you didn’t have that, only if you were a night flyer.
AS: It was minus thirty below isn’t it sometimes?
PC: It can be up to forty, and trying to manage a gun, take the gun apart, no way.
AS: Maybe it was to give you confidence in the gun.
PC: The theory was ok but, err, but if they jammed, you were having to do something about it but practicality no.
AS: As you say, where would you put the bits?
PC: Yeah. Where would you put it to start on it? Start stripping it out. You had no table or anything.
AS: When you were um, airborne on a trip was there much talk on the RT between you or was it just —
PC: Not between us, no.
AS: Yeah?
PC: No, skipper didn’t encourage that.
AS: And in the bomber stream, could you see or feel other aircraft at night?
PC: You could feel the other aircraft, the buffeting now and again, but see them, very, very rarely.
AS: I’ve never experienced the buffeting, can, can you describe what it’s, is it almost like hitting something or is it —
PC: Well, no, it’s like a very big wind hitting you. You’d, you’d go sideways, up, or down depending where that aircraft was coming from.
AS: But something, something you could get used to?
PC: Oh, yes you could feel it every time. You knew there was one up ahead of us somewhere, whether it was friendly or foe I don’t know.
AS: I, I’m told, I don’t know this to be true, that it’s quite rare, although you’re surrounded by a thousand aircraft, it was quite rare to see one in flight, is that -?
PC: Yeah, yeah.
AS: Is that —
PC: Except on the daylights of course.
AS: Yeah, yeah on the daylights. So, the crew practiced religiously, you’re flying quite a number of operations, quite, quite quickly, did you hang together very much on the ground as well as in the air?
PC: As much as we could.
AS: Ok.
PC: In fact, we were celebrating the skipper’s birthday, on one occasion, it was Ken Harvey, um, he started off with a gin and orange, went up to double gin and orange and then a double, double, and after about one double, double, I was leaning against the wall, [laughs], no more.
AS: And did you live together all the sergeants’ mess, certainly as a, a crew?
PC: We were in the same um, hut, and of course he was in the officers’ quarters, but other than that we were always together.
AS: And completely random crewing up?
PC: Indeed yeah, yeah.
AS: Percy, when you’d finished at the conversion unit, you crewed up and were posted to 100 Squadron. Um, did you go straight on ops or did you do a period of training?
PC: Did a period of training
AS: Is there anything that stands out in your mind about that training?
PC: That is later on.
AS: Err, I know each mission was different but could you give me some idea about what a day would be, an operational day from getting up, going through the briefing, what was the routine like on your squadron?
PC: Well, we would get up in the morning, and we would know, sooner or later, during the day whether or not we were on ops or whether there was anything laid on for that night, so we couldn’t leave the station um, it’s all a bit hazy now, but [pause] —
AS: Did you all, um, have the same briefing or were there separate briefings for the pilot and navigator?
PC: The pilot and navigator were usually first, and then we were called into the briefing room, um [pause], sorry I can’t give too much about —
AS: No, it’s, it’s an awful long time ago, and not everything sticks in your mind.
PC: We always had a meal, or were supposed to have a meal, egg, and bacon before we went off. There was only one occasion when I didn’t and that was in the start of the second tour [laughs]. I arrived too late in the day on the station and I went out that night before I had it, too late for it [laughs].
AS: When you went out to your aircraft, had all the guns been put in for you?
PC: Oh yeah, yeah, they were all set up for us —
AS: Ok.
PC: By the armourers.
AS: And did you look after your own guns or, or, whatever was —
PC: The armourers used to look after them.
AS: Did you, when you were airborne obviously, over the sea perhaps, did you, did you, test fire the guns or —
PC: No err, err, my skippers didn’t like that, they said it would give it away to anyone else, and you never really knew whether there was anything in the line of fire, being dark, he didn’t condone that at all.
AS: When you got airborne, did you climb straight on course, or was there circling around a beacon, or what?
PC: It depends on where you were aiming for, you usually had a name, um [pauses] you usually had to con.. what’s the word?
AS: To form up in the stream?
PC: No, you usually had a point on the coast where you had to start off from, usually either the east coast or south coast depending on where we was heading for. We often used to congregate over um, [pauses] on the east coast, the name won’t come.
AS: No, no, no. I know several points, like Alford or —
PC: Yeah, yeah.
AS: Were there any incidents that really stand out in your mind, from, from either of your tours, really, either on ops or in training?
PC: We saw actually um, when we were practising, formation flying on the 2nd tour, we had two banks of three, one, two and three, one, two and three, usually at different heights. Well always at different heights, and the err, [pause], the second, first one of three got up in the slip stream of the first one and he went violently up and then back down, he just missed us, and came on top of the other one, and they both went down. Um, there was one parachute I saw coming out and err, and he was later on classed as LMF because he wouldn’t fly again, and I think that was bad, but err, obviously I suppose you could look at it as saying well, he wouldn’t be any good anyway, so, but the way they did it, they stripped him of his brevet and stripes and off the station as soon as possible.
AS: In front of all of you?
PC: Yeah, yeah.
AS: They paraded the squadron and —
PC: Yeah.
AS: What {pause}, did you know people on all these aircraft?
PC: We knew of them. We probably came across them, but not particularly well.
AS: And can you remember, again a long time ago, but can you remember the effect on you? Um, was it just one of those things and you, you were —
PC: Just one of those things as far as you could see because we were out on ops again that following night.
AS: Really?
PC: Yeah.
AS: And their, their two-aircraft lost on training. At the time you were flying both your tours were, were the losses heavy?
PC: [heavy sigh]
AS: Did you get the sense?
PC: Something you didn’t realise about it.
AS: Really?
PC: Yeah, I think we were the only crew in the, we were re-formed 100 squadron to complete our tour but I am not sure about that.
AS: Wow.
PC: There wasn’t very many anyway.
AS: But you always knew?
PC: Yeah
AS: As a crew that—
PC: It was always the other one.
AS: Always the other guy. You have the Distinguished Flying Medal um, gazetted on the 13th September 1944. What was that all about? What was the citation for?
PC: I don’t think it was anything particular. Um, I say that because nothing outstanding as far as we were concerned. We were just doing our job and I think it was something to do with the Pathfinders. If you completed a Pathfinder tour it was basically automatic.
AS: I think you’re being a little modest on that. So, this was the end of your second tour?
PC: Yeah.
AS: Ok. Could we explore the Pathfinder connection a bit?
PC: Yeah.
AS: Cos’ you went to 97 Squadron and only found out when you got there that it was Pathfinder. Was the job and the routine for the crew, not necessarily for the gunner, was that very different from your previous tour?
PC: Only different in the respect that once you had bombed you were required to hang around just in case you had to re-mark.
AS: So —
PC: You were milling around the air um, the target area?
AS: So, left hand circuits with flak and searchlights coming up at you?
PC: Well yeah, and always trying to avoid the searchlights because we didn’t [unclear], well at least I didn’t, I don’t think any of them did.
AS: And this was for, was your skipper a marker or a backer up or what?
PC: it varied with each um, operation. Initially it was just backer up or illuminator, sometimes blind illuminator. That’s when you carried flares to light up the ground so that the master bomber could actually identify their target for others to mark usually a mosquito.
AS: Was the, was there a fair amount of specific training to be a gunner?
PC: Not as far as I was concerned but as the crew was concerned yes.
AS: Ok, and you still had a crew of seven, you didn’t have a second navigator or —
PC: Sometimes they had an extra one for the, but we didn’t for the operation of the H2S.
AS: So, by the time you got to your second tour you had much more equipment like H2S and Gee.
PC: Yeah, usually yeah.
AS: The um, the general, when you’d bombed and you’d been released from this circling, was your crew one of the ones that was really keen to get home first? Pour on the coal and come down hill or?
PC: We usually tried to get home first but with careful note of the petrol consumption to make sure we could get back, otherwise, if you put on too much, you might not have enough.
AS: That, that’s one of the things that interests me specifically. Was the ratio between the fuel that, that the bombers were given and the bomb load they carried.
PC: Mmm.
AS: And then you got variables like the wind. Was having enough petrol a worry for you most of the time? Was it something that you were conscious of all the time?
PC: Not to us.
AS: No.
PC: But to the engineer and the pilot of course, they relied on the engineer to make sure that we had enough because he had the consoles of the engines whether it was to [unclear]
AS: Did you always land back at base can you remember? Or did you -
PC: No, we occasionally had to abort [laughs} because of the weather conditions at home.
AS: Did you ever land at one of the FIDO aerodromes? Did you ever land at FIDO?
PC: No, not with FIDO, no.
AS: How about the long emergency strips like Carnaby or Woodbridge?
PC: We had to land at [pauses] oh, what’s the one just up the road? Wittering, because of the long runway because we ran out of hydraulic power for brakes. We had to just rely on slowing up.
AS: So, it wasn’t an entirely routine tour?
PC: No, No.
AS: What was the cause of the hydraulic power was it the enemy having a go at you or —
PC: No, it was just a breakdown.
AS: But generally, you had a lot of confidence in the aircraft?
PC: In the airplane? Yeah.
AS: It wasn’t all, I guess it wasn’t all operational flying and training. What sort of things did you do for relaxation?
PC: Sorry?
AS: What sort of things did you do for relaxation as a crew?
PC: Mainly the pub [laughs].
AS: What, what were they like? Were they absolutely rammed full of aircrew or did it vary?
PC: Sorry, I don’t —
AS: Were the pubs around the airfields really, really crowded or —
PC: Mainly, yes. On non-flying days, of course [laughs].
AS: So did you drink with your ground crew as well or with extra mates?
PC: If we came across them, yeah, which occasionally you did. Which was encouraged.
AS: I’ll pause it there.
AS: Percy, I know when you joined 97 Squadron they were Pathfinders. They were on 8 Group, but I believe that at some point they went back to 5 Group.
PC: I think it was something to do with Cochrane and [pauses] —
AS: Bennett. Was it Don Bennett?
PC: Bennett, yeah. Names, names.
AS: It’s said they didn’t get on particularly.
PC: No.
AS: So, so were you as a crew in the squadron, did you then go back to 5 Group during your time, or did you finish your time out as a Pathfinder?
PC: I finished the tour as a Pathfinder, um -
AS: Ok
PC: I joined them on the 15th of March ‘44 and finished with them [ long pauses] on the 29th of the seventh 1944
AS: Wow.
PC: Oh, no, the 30th.
AS: So, were you awarded your —
PC: Not then, no.
AS: Your pathfinder badge?
PC: The pathfinder badge, during the course of that, yeah.
AS: Ok.
PC: Which I’ve still got.
AS: So you finished your tour?
PC: Wait a minute, wait a minute, yeah, that was the finish of the tour the 17th of the eighth, err, the 13th, 15th of the eighth, at Sondeal, where the one in front of us was knocked out by bombs from above.
AS: Was that a daylight?
PC: That was on [indistinct]
AS: That was a night fighter drone, wasn’t it?
PC: That was a daylight, green, so there is no excuse really for that happening because it was daylight. At night time, you could understand it but err -
AS: So, you were on 97 Squadron in the build up to D-Day.
PC: Yes
AS: And the invasion of Normandy.
PC: Yes
AS: Did you carry out missions related to that?
PC: Only perhaps in some of the raids on the um, on the railways and such, one of which we did an op to Courtrai [Kortrijk] on the 20th of the seventh, and a gentleman from Holland contacted me with a view to attending to his book signing which he had written about those raids, but unfortunately it was in, written in err, what’s the [pauses], Flemish. Written in Flemish, so I can’t read it [laughs]. I’ve got it here somewhere, or its upstairs.
AS: Bit of a mouthful I think.
PC: And we went over there for that after getting into trouble and getting our passports. Mainly through yours. [talking to other person in room]
AS: Were you well received over there?
PC: Indeed. We couldn’t believe the warmth of the greetings that we got over there. For all [doorbell chimes]. There is somebody at the door. For all the damage that we caused, partly to them, it’s amazing. Even the chap who was blown out of his mother’s arms, and his mother was killed, shook hands
AS: It must have been very gratifying I would think. How, that is something today to be remembered, with, with warmth for what you and your —
PC: Sorry?
AS: Saying that is a, a good reaction today.
PC: Yeah.
AS: To be remembered for what you did, you and your comrades.
PC: And they were so grateful that we helped as far as we could.
AS: I’ll just pause. Percy, you just told me about the recognition in Courtrai and how grateful people are now for what you and your colleagues did, can you remember what you felt like, about the bombing at the time, what you were doing?
PC: Well, as far as I’m concerned, the Jerries started it so we tried to finish it, and with much success. We didn’t get too much recognition from Churchill at the end of the war because he didn’t want to be involved, at least it was the impression that I got, that he didn’t want any recognition of the badness of the bombings, if you know what that means. Um [sighs] but [sighs], I’ve lost the plot somewhere. Yep, I don’t think he wanted to be involved with anything that was wrong about it, or to be, the words don’t come —
AS: Associated with it, he didn’t want to be associated with it.
PC: Yeah.
AS: Yep. Do you think there’s a change now, in, in, our attitudes of finally Bomber Command getting some recognition? Can you see that?
PC: Only if through a bit of pressure from other people. I don’t think it was forthcoming, but it had to be wrung out of them.
AS: Could we go off in a completely different direction? Um, I know that you were involved in trying to, to contact members of your crew, and that your daughter, your daughters, in fact —
PC: Yeah.
AS: Have made a film. Could you give me a little bit of information on the background on that, on, on your efforts to contact your crew and the film?
PC: Yeah, we found the relatives of several of them, but none actually still alive. We attended to a reunion as such at [pauses] um, East Kirkby, where the Lancaster is doing taxi runs and had a good day there, met a lot of the, most of the relatives, of, I think we didn’t, the relatives of Jim Crake didn’t want to be involved. Um, but I think all the rest we, oh no, Geoff Mander, the first bomb aimer, wasn’t there because he was killed on a Mosquito in an accident between the wars, between tours, we went, we found his grave, up in [pauses] that film we’re doing, forget where it was now. Anything more?
AS: No, that’s really good, thank you. Percy, I know it was a long time ago and this might seem a silly question, but can you remember what it was like to be really in the flak, to be shot at, what it felt like and what it looked like?
PC: You were shaken all about, obviously, by how close it was whether there was too much air [pauses] disruption to affect us once or twice it was pretty close and you could feel it and you could hear the bits hitting the metal skin of the aircraft, but we were weaving, but whether you were in to it or away from it is another question. I don’t think there is much you can say about it, it was just luck, pure luck.
AS: And they, they —
PC: And I’ve had my fair share of that throughout the war.
AS: On luck, did you have any?
PC: Talismans?
AS: No, you didn’t.
PC: No, I know some people who did, they wouldn’t leave without whatever it might have been and we had none of that.
AS: Another direction, I, I think when you went to see one of your brothers you actually had a flying boat flight, what was that all about?
PC: Yeah, that was very nice, we went out in a little boat out to the aircraft and I think I’ve got the date somewhere [long pause], oh god, just a second. It was on the 27nd of January, February, March, April.
AS: 1943?
PC: Squadron Leader Lobley was the skipper, FP232 Catalina. Lasted one hour 20 minutes. That was quite exciting. The skipper signed the book.
AS: What was the sensation like on water compared to —
PC: It was quite calm really, I was surprised, I would have thought there would have been a bit more, a bit more reaction from hitting the water, but it wasn’t it as quite smooth.
AS: Can you, can you remember what duties your brother’s squadron were engaged on?
PC: It was on air sea, anti-submarine patrols and this specialise equipment test, which was basically the H2S.
AS: So, they carried radar in the Catalinas against the submarines?
PC: Yeah.
AS: When you’d finished flying you said that you re-mustered as a driver MT until the end of the war, when you, what was the de-mob process like when you finished?
PC: It’s done on numbers depending on time of entry and actual length of service. You had a number and when your number come up you were sent to ACAC which was err, names [sighs], Catterick in Yorkshire, that was where I was demobbed by.
AS: Is it true that you get a suit and a hat and a brown paper parcel?
PC: More or less [laughs] yeah. I had a trilby hat and a de-mob suit which was a pin stripe [laughs].
AS: And did you get any help with re-training, because there is not a lot of room for mid upper gunners in civilian life?
PC: Not in civilian life [laughs]. It might have been if you had gone abroad somewhere.
AS: Did they teach you a trade or —
PC: I thought we had adequate training because I made a good life out of carpentry and went on to building [pauses]
AS: So, after leaving the Air Force you got help, you were trained to be a carpenter?
PC: A carpenter, yeah, yeah.
AS: Ok.
PC: Then you had a period of about six months in which you, before you got full pay or whatever, after that if you were employed, got the rate but —
AS: And, you chose to live in Cambridgeshire or —
PC: Sorry?
AS: You chose to live in Cambridgeshire having been in —
PC: Well because, initially I was um, doing a lot of travelling between, so I was going through the mileage on cars and I felt that I should get some help towards it, but at that time it was a little bit of depression, so I parted company rather than [unclear], and as a consequence I was then employed working on these houses in which I now live in, and as the price was really reasonable, £3,950 for a detached house.
AS: Gosh
PC: Which I paid a lot more for because I had a mortgage on it, but at least I got on the ladder.
AS: Yeah, yeah, It’s always hard isn’t it?
PC: Yeah.
AS: The numbers now are ten times as much, but it is still hard to get on the ladder.
PC: Yeah.
AS: Did, did you keep in touch with your colleagues at all or with the Air Force generally? Did you join a squadron association?
PC: No, not until later, much later, no.
AS: Okay.
PC: I never even joined the um, [sighs] what do you call them?
AS: The RAF Association?
PC: No, no, the civilian one.
AS: The Union? No. The Benevolent Fund?
PC: No
AS: It’ll come.
PC: The Royal British Legion, I never even joined them.
AS: So, was that a period of your life that you parked for a long, long time?
AS: I just didn’t think any more about it. It was something you did.
AS: And what sparked getting interested again and joining the Association?
PC: That was done by my son, David, he saw a bit in the um, whatever it is on the internet about 97 Squadron Association, so he contacted the chap, that was on it and we got a visit from him, um, what’s his name? I think I shall have to go upstairs and get the book. Bending, “Achieve your Aim, A History of 97 Squadron” by Kevin Bending.
AS: So, he came to see you and what sorts of things have you got involved with since?
PC: We’ve got involved with the actual squadron association and we’ve been to their reunions in Horncastle. In Norfolk is it, or is it Suffolk?
AS: I don’t know.
PC: I think its Norfolk but I wouldn’t be 100% sure.
AS: And then there is, have been things like the Bomber Command Memorial?
PC: Yes, we have been down to the Bomber Command Memorial mainly due to um, my daughters again, that’s Sandy, getting the tickets for it. We never went to the um, sorry, we never went to the main place, we were allocated a different area which was about a mile away but we had big screens, which they showed up on us. And err, it was a very hot day, but they treated us well.
AS: And people came from, aircrew came from all over the world for that.
PC: Yeah, yeah
AS: I think there were 600, was it still -
PC: Sorry?
AS: I think 600 hundred aircrew came to that, it was huge.
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Title
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Interview with Percy Cannings
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Adam Sutch
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2015-08-11
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01:04:27 audio recording
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ACanningsDP150811
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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eng
Description
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Percy Cannings was born in Stedham, near Midhurst, West Susses and joined the Royal Air Force at the age of 18, reporting for duty in 1943. Percy served with 100 and 97 Squadrons as a mid upper gunner on Lancasters.
He tells of his two brothers who served in the forces and then goes on to talk about his crew and some of the experiences he saw whilst flying in a Bomber Stream.
After his missions, he was then posted as an instructor on Operational Training Units, before flying with 97 Pathfinder Squadron.
Percy flew in Bleinheims, Halifaxes and Lancasters and recalls his life in the Royal Air Force, and his crews and training, also meeting up with the relatives of his former crew, and meeting people from Holland after the war.
Percy also tells of his experiences flying in a Catalina after visiting his brother, who flew in Coastal Command.
Percy completed two tours of duty in Bomber Command and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal in September 1944.
Contributor
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Vivienne Tincombe
100 Squadron
1656 HCU
83 OTU
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Catalina
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
RAF Bourn
RAF Lindholme
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Peplow
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/644/8914/ASpencerR150720.2.mp3
d4c05bf720e977abfa2ad1246750e227
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Spencer, Reg
R Spencer
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Identifier
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Spencer, R
Description
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An oral history interview with Reg Spencer (Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator with 514 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2015-07-20
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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This is David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre interviewing Reg Spencer, Mr Reg Spencer at his home.
DK “and your schooldays?”
RS. “Schooldays were, I was born in Wembley Middlesex. Unfortunately my father, who worked up in Westminster area on electricity sub stations, unfortunately he was deaf and then he went blind, so he was deaf and blind and had to give up work so he decided he was going to buy himself a plot of land down in Essex and build a bungalow, is this .. ok then? Which he did at a place called Point Clear, which is near St Osyth in Essex. So I ended up going to school in the village of Essex until I left school in nineteen thirty nine. Then of course the war started in nineteen thirty nine in September. Prior to going to the air force, I was working basically on farm work, all kinds of farm work ending up on a threshing machine and what not.”
RS. “I joined the ATC at Clacton on Sea prior to going into the air force, so I was in the ATC for three or four years before I was called up for National Service in nineteen fortythree, February fortythree when I was eighteen years old on my eighteenth birthday. I Went to RACA at St Johns Wood which was Lords Cricket ground aircrew recruiting centre. From there we had two or three days having inoculations and getting kitted out and one thing and another. From there I was posted to Bridlington, Yorkshire for ITW which was Initial Training Wing. We were there three or four weeks doing square bashing and various lessons. One of the things we had to do was go out towards the sea over the promenade and have clay pigeon shooting and em being an ex farm worker when we had to shoot rabbits and one thing and another, I knocked out four out of five clay pigeons as they were in those days. So I thought I was going to end up as a gunner as some sort in the air force, but from there I was posted to number two Radio School at Yatesbury for Wireless Operator training. I was there for two or three years [sic] and from there I went to a little place called LLandwrog in North Wales for operational training which was, ere, flying Ansons and we went there for three or four weeks. From there we went to Desborough flying Wellingtons for another three or four weeks. When we went to Desborough we were all chucked into a hanger sort of thing, all aircrew people Wireless Operators like myself, Gunners, Pilots, Engineers and there you crewed up. You just walked about and if someone said “have you got a crew?” you said no. “Would you like to join us as a Wireless Operator, you said “yes.” So we eventually made a crew up at Desborough.”
DK. “I have always been quite interested in how you crewed up. How you all got together and made your own crews rather than being ordered to. Did you find that worked well?”
RS. “ It seemed to because although we were only a crew for a short period we were quite happy and worked together, so on that basis it worked. A lot of people thought you were ordered to be a crew but no you were all chucked into the pile and you sorted yourself out. So we were at Desborough for some time on em, Wellingtons just ordinary cross country flying, fighter affiliation that sort of thing. From there we went to a place called Woolfox Lodge not far from you. That was Heavy Conversion Unit, so we went onto Lancasters at Woolfox Lodge, again there for a short period [short pause-“we can edit that out”] Woolfox Lodge, Heavy Conversion Unit, so that was our final training. From there we went to 514 squadron at Waterbeach. We arrived there in the February.”
DK. “If I can take you back, you trained as a Wireless Operator there?”
RS. “At Yatesbury, yes ok [slight pause] Yes we arrived at Waterbeach in forty five which is late on in the war and em, we carried out several operations over Germany.”
DK “and which squadron was this with?”
RS. “514. Yes at Waterbeach. Several operations over Germany. Eventually the European war was coming to a close and it was agreed with the Germans and with the Americans that we could fly over Holland and do Operation Manna which you obviously know of. I did three trips on Operation Manna over to Holland and also at that time as the war finished we were flying to France to bring back our troops who had been Prisoners of War under German occupation. Also we were flying to Italy doing the same operation bringing people back from Italy who had been Prisoners of War.”
DK. “How many operations did you do, bombing operations over Germany?”
RS. “I would think fourteen or fifteen something like that.”
DK. “And how did you feel with the Manna Operations, did you see the Dutch people?”.
RS. “We could see the Dutch people, prior to taking off.”
[Interruption by a telephone ringing in the background.]
RS. “Where did I get up to?”
DK. “operation Manna”
RS. “Operation Manna, yes when we went to get our parachutes we were given permission to help ourselves to very cartridges which were used for distress purposes and one thing and another.”
DK “I will just move the phone in case it interrupts”
RS. “So as we approached the target and mind you, you are only over the target for a second sort of thing, I stood by with very cartridges and was firing them as were other people, so it was almost like Blackpool illuminations, which the Dutch people appreciated, you could see them on the ground waving to us up there. You could also as you went over occupied territory see Germans standing at the cross roads in their sentry boxes and that sort of thing. You could also see one or two tanks and that sort of thing but em, yes I did three operations on Operation Manna.”
DK. “how did that make you feel when the Germans weren’t shooting at you, they were holding to the cease fire?”
RS. “That’s right, yes the agreement I think was that we were allowed to fly down to fifty feet and they would not attack. If we did any as you know they were quite free to em, open fire against us.”
DK. “But the Italian, bringing prisoners back from there er, that was quite entertaining because you met people who had been Prisoners of War for three or four years and one particular little instance that happened, we had loaded up and they had about twenty troops sitting on the floor of the Lancaster and the em, chap who sat next to me when we took off he said “how long will it be before we get back to England?” I said four, four and a half hours I suppose. He said “will you let me know when we get to the French coast?” I said yes sure. So we approach the French coast and I said to him it’s the French coast down there. Just where the Wireless Operator sits there is a very small window and you can see just in front of the engines the ground and what not. So he leant over “yes the French coast and will you let me know when we get to the English coast, how long will it be?” I said about five to ten minutes that all. I said to him “there’s the English coast over there” and as he came over he was sick all the way down the back of my neck and being a prisoner of war poor chap it stunk to high heaven. Anyway we landed at Ford in Suffolk where the WVS and the NAAFI were waiting to receive these troops and as I got to the hatch to go out a volunteer WVS or something like that said “come on darling we’ll soon get you sorted out.” I said I was one of the crew. Anyway they washed it all down and I got over it so that was that little funny incident that happened.”
DK. “Eventually after Operation Manna and em, bringing troops back from Italy and France of course the war finished and of ninety per cent of aircrew I should think were made redundant. They were just told they were not flying anymore, you got to remuster to finish your National Service. So from there we were taken to Bruntingthorpe, thousands of Aircrew were at Bruntingthorpe all coming from different squadrons and what not. We were interviewed asked what would you like to do to finish your service of. So I thought when I was on the station motor transport seemed like a nice job driving about the airfield, so I volunteered for that. Eventually I was posted to Blackpool for a motor driving course which like the other nineteen on the course, we all passed. From there you were supposed to fill in a form to say where you would like to be posted to. Well my parents were living at Clacton on Sea and my wife was living at Wembley with her Mother. So I put down East Anglia or the London area and one of the chaps in the billet said “what have you put down?” and I said “either London or East Anglia.” He said “you will end up in Scotland or Wales,” so I said “well see.” By pure coincidence I was posted to the White City, you know the White City in London which is a Maintenance Unit for the MOD and we had Humber Snipes there. Beautiful cars and we had to go up to London and take somebody wherever they wanted to go and back to the White City. When I first got there the adjutant said to me “I’m sorry but we haven’t got any billets here, we have some places where you can lodge.” He said “do you know anyone in this area?” I said “well my wife lives at Wembley” “ah well we’ll billet you at Wembley” So I ended up em with my kitbag, knocked on the door at home and my wife opened the door “hello what are you doing here?” “I’ve been billeted on you” and I stayed there for three or four weeks. She was being paid by the Air Ministry until I was then posted to Bicester. Do you know Bicester? That was a maintenance unit. And em, all round the perimeter track either side they had vehicles of all sorts and it was my job to go round with a compressor on a little low loader Bantam, with two airmen and have a look to see if any of the tyres on the vehicles were flat or spongy, stop and pump them up. [Pause] Then eventually we were detailed to move a lot of the vehicles from Bicester up to Carlisle which was another Maintenance Unit. So we used to get a lorry or trailer on the back or bowser of something and go up to Carlisle Maintenance Unit and make our own way back by train. And em from Bicester I went to Pershore in charge of a parachute department, issuing parachutes and one thing and another there. I was only there for a few weeks and I went back to Kirkham near Blackpool, transport again and from there I was demobbed, nineteen fortyseven.”
RS. “When I went from 514 squadron we volunteered to go to 617 squadron which was training for Tiger Force and we went there about June forty five. Off course the European war finished in forty five in August so em, we didn’t have to go to the Far East all the Aircrew were made redundant and I went on to motor transport.”
DK. “How did you feel when you didn’t have to go onto Tiger Force now going to the Far East. How did that make you feel?”
RS. “Well at the time we were like anybody else in the Air Force, we were volunteers and we were keen I suppose to go out to the Far East and carry on with the Japanese, because we were going to be re-equipped with Lincolns instead of Lancasters, that was supposed to be a better aircraft as far as defence was concerned. As we said the Japanese war finished and we didn’t have to go, but having thought about it, even with our Lincolns to go out to the Far East against the Japanese with their Kamikaze sort. You didn’t know if you were going to do one operation or, if you were going to be fortunate enough to go on to the end of the war sort of thing, so that was that.”
DK. “Can I take you back a bit further as a Wireless Operator, what were your duties on the aircraft?”
RS. “Well basically you had to check in every hour with em er home base sort of thing, to see if there had been any change. Sometimes, not that it happened to us, sometimes it would be called off and you would just come back. Or there would be a change em because of wind direction or something or other you would have to advise the Navigator to veer to the right to get there or one thing or another. You were there also for em emergencies, if you were running out of fuel and you couldn’t get to Base, you would have to get in touch with Base or get in touch with Headquarters and they will say instead of coming to Waterbeach go to Woodhall, Woodbridge not Woodhall the emergency landing. We did loose an engine once going out actually and we talked to the crew and decided to carry on. Coming back the Pilot said “we have one engine missing” so they said “divert to Manston” So we went down to Manston which had one of the overshoot runways, at the end they had sand or gravel or something so you could overshoot to land. At that particular time when we were coming back I stood up in the astrodome, “you know the astrodome” which is just near the Wireless Operators seat and stood there looking out, you know, there’s an aircraft over there. So I said aircraft “so and so, so and so, so and so” and the Rear Gunner swung round and the Mid Upper and they said “where abouts? oh, oh, I can see it” and it gradually came in like that and got to within shooting distance sort of thing and it turned out to be a Mustang. He came along and waggled his wings like that, he could see us. We said ok and that and he just peeled off and off he went. We made it home on our own. Other than that we had no damage to the aircraft at all.”
DK. “Your operations before Manna, they were to Germany?”
RS. “Yes they were to Germany. The furthest down we went was to Regensburg, that was an eight hour trip which was the longest trip. Others were going into Germany, three hours out and three hours back sort of thing. Keil, we went to Keil two and a half hours, three hours I suppose. The most of them were daylight we only did two or three night operations. The first night we went we had the Group Captain who was the Station Commander at Waterbeach. He came as second pilot to see that were acting as a responsible crew and then we obviously went off on our own.”
RS. “I shouldn’t say it really I suppose but I consider it the best four years of my life, because in many respects I lived in Essex as a farmers boy sort of thing and just elementary education at the local church school. I wasn’t high and mighty with education and whatnot and em when I got into the billet with the lads and that sort of thing, comradeship and going out together and whatnot em. I think in fact I wanted to stay in. When I was at Kirkham with the em, transport there was a chap in our billet, his job was, his job was, driving a Group Captain about [pause]. He had a Humber Snipe, the Group Captain would say “ I want to visit so and so” might have been up in Coningsby or whatever and he would take him. Of course being the Group Captains driver he was treated on the Station as if he was the cats whiskers. He said it was a nice job, So I said “why are you packing it in?” “The wife wants me to come out, so I’m going out. Why are you interested in the job?” So I said that would be ideal for me. So I phoned the wife and said I had a chance to stay in the Air Force.”
Mrs RS. “Doing what?”
RS. I said “being chauffer to a Group Captain”
Mrs RS “ oh that’s not much of a job is it?”
RS. “It’s quite a good job really”
Mrs RS. “No you come out. How long are you going to be in for?”
RS. I said “three years”
Mrs RS. “No you come out.”
RS. So eventually I took her to her word and I came out.
RS. “But when we were going to, another little story, or thought we were going to Tiger Force I spoke to the Wife and I said to her, “how about us getting married?” ‘cause we were already engaged, so she said “I don’t know, what happens if you go out to Japan?” So I said “don’t look on the dull side, you will get marriage allowance and you will be able to save that if you can, so when I come back you will have a nice little nest egg to set up home” So we decided to get married on August the eighteenth, nineteen forty-five. So I went to the CO that my wife and I, girlfriend want to get married. “Yes alright then, when is it?” So I told him, so and so and so and so, seventy two hours leave. So I came home to Wembley where the Wife was living. Half the Crew came down with me when I got married and I don’t think they do it so much in these days, but the Best Man stood up and read telegrams of congratulations and whatnot and there was one there from the CO, well the adjutant to say that my leave had been extended eh.” [pause]
DK. “When would these have been taken?” [Probably reference to photographs]
RS. “At em Yatesbury, that’s a fallacy really, that’s in the ATC. And that’s em.”
DK. “you look particularly young there.”
RS. “And I was, I was only eighteen when I went in the Air Force. [unreadable] with the old white flash which indicated you were under training. And we were nearly all told to go down to the local photographer and have your photograph taken, and of course they put us all in Irving. They weren’t on issue to us in the Lancaster, ‘cause of the heating was ok and you did not need them.”
DK. “ What was your thoughts er as to the Lancaster itself compared to the earlier aircraft that you flew in the Wellington you did your training in?”
RS. “Oh there was no comparison really.”
DK. “did it give you confidence”
RS. “Oh yes, yes we used to take off and never gave it a thought that you wasn’t coming back.”
RS. “Carrying onto the story of getting married em, seventy two and they pushed it up to seven days and em, we got married and this year it will be our seventieth anniversary.”
DK. “Congratulations.”
RS. “So that was” [unreadable]
DK. “What about your crew themselves, did you stay in touch with your crew after the war?”
RS. “No, Vi could you go and get my Log Book, it’s in the top drawer?”
RS. “No I tried several times to get in touch with them, ‘cause when we went to Bruntingthorpe when all the crews went down there. You were just told to get in that lorry or get in that lorry sort of thing depending on what trade you wanted to follow up, they just disappeared, but I tried several times to get in touch with them. But em and em and of course the crew were made up of a Pilot and he came from, I don’t know, he was South African he was out training pilots out there.”
DK. “he was South African?”
RS.”Yes and he came back here because he wanted to get onto Operations, so he came back here. So that was the Pilot and then there was the Flight Engineer who also got his wings em for flying, he remustered as Flight Engineer.”
Mrs RS. [Some garbled talk] “A bit old fashioned now, but there was the Crew and he was the Best Man, Eric was the Best Man”
DK. “Eric was the Pilot, was he?”
Mrs RS “No the Pilot did not come”
DK. “Give it to me please, that’s not the one I was thinking of, there is only four of them there. I thought I put a photograph in here this morning, there we are”
DK “Ah, that’s the whole crew”
RS. That’s the whole crew, that was the Pilot, his name was Winkworth.
DK. “South African?”
RS. “Yes but we used to say, just Skipper or otherwords. That was Eric Coxon, Flight Engineer and he has wings as well and he remustered, he passed his Pilots obviously because he got his wings and then. This side we used to call him Pat because he was Irish, Navigator, and this one we use to call him Slaughter, Eric Slaughter, so we called him Todd, ha ha, he was the Bomb Aimer. That’s myself and Paddy, little Irishman there, he was the Rear Gunner, we always called him Paddy. He was an amateur boxer pre Air Force days. And of course the other one was a chap named Jock Shields, Scotsman, he was Mid Upper Gunner. That was the Crew, but no I haven’t managed to get in touch with any of them at all.
DK. “And were the rest of the Crew, British, English?”
RS. “No we had two Irishmen and a Scotsman.”
DK. “Two Irishmen, a Scotsman, South African”
RS. “Two English, yes.”
DK. “ That was something very much about Bomber Command, very cosmopolitan organisation of people from all across the Empire?”
RS. “That right, it was the same when we went to Manna up in Lincoln some months ago. The number of people there that were from New Zealand, Australia, Canada, all over the World who had been in Bomber Command.
DK. “Ok Thanks for that I will stop you there.”
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Reg Spencer
Creator
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David Kavanagh
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-20
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASpencerR150720
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:27:50 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Wembley born, but educated in Essex, Reg Spencer left school in 1939. In 1943, on his 18th birthday, he was called up for National Service. Following initial training at RAF Bridlington he was trained as a wireless operator at No. 2 Radio School at Yatesbury, before being operationally trained on Anson aircraft at Llandwrog in North Wales. Reg reflects on how, following his operational training, there was no formal aircraft crew selection, rather all new aircrew - gunners, pilots, engineers etc – congregated in a hangar and “you sorted yourselves out” into crews. Crew training on Wellingtons at Desborough preceded a posting to the Heavy Conversion Unit flying Lancasters at Woolfox Lodge and then in 1945 onto operational duties with 514 Sqn at Waterbeach.
Operational duties included up to 14 bombing operations over Germany, three trips on Operation Mana and a number of flights bringing prisoners of war back from France and Italy. Reg also describes the typical duties of aircrew wireless operator -staying in contact with base operations and keeping the crew informed of any operational changes. When the war ended Reg re-mustered to work in Motor Transport and was posted to the MOD Maintenance Unit at White City and then on to the Maintenance Unit at Bicester. He finished his National Service at Kirkham near Blackpool. Reg married in 1945. At the time of the interview they were approaching their 70th wedding anniversary.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Chris Cann
514 Squadron
aircrew
crewing up
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
love and romance
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Desborough
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Woolfox Lodge
RAF Yatesbury
service vehicle
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/201/9631/LBaileyJD1583184v1.1.pdf
2e9c51cb48a073b0119651195b7a083c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bailey, John Derek
John Derek Bailey
Bill Bailey
John D Bailey
John Bailey
J D Bailey
J Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. Two oral history interviews with John Derek "Bill" Bailey (b. 1924, 1583184 and 198592 Royal Air Force) service material, nine photographs, a memoir and his log book. He flew a tour of operations as a bomb aimer with 103 and 166 Squadrons from RAF Elsham Wolds and RAF Kirmington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Bailey and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-07
2017-01-13
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Bailey, JD
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
John Derek Bailey’s Royal Canadian Air Force flying log book for aircrew other than pilot
Creator
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Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Mike Connock
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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One booklet
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
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LBaileyJD1583184v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending review
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
1944-05-24
1944-05-25
1944-08-29
1944-08-30
1944-08-31
1944-09-03
1944-09-05
1944-09-10
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-17
1944-09-24
1944-09-26
1944-09-27
1944-10-19
1944-10-20
1944-10-23
1944-10-25
1944-10-28
1944-10-29
1944-10-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-02
1944-11-04
1944-11-11
1944-11-21
1944-11-27
1944-11-28
1944-11-29
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-13
1944-12-21
1944-12-26
1945-01-05
1945-01-06
1945-01-07
1945-01-14
1945-01-15
1945-01-16
1945-01-17
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for aircrew other than pilot for John Derek Bailey, bomb aimer, covering the period from 6 July 1943 to 5 September 1945, detailing his flying training, operations flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Regents Park, RAF Ludlow, RAF Paignton, RAF Brighton, RAF Heaton Park, RCAF Moncton, RCAF Carberry, RCAF Picton, RCAF Mount Hope, RAF Harrogate, RAF Kirkham, RAF Penrhos, RAF Llandwrog, RAF Peplow, RAF Lindholme, RAF Sandtoft, RAF Hemswell, RAF Elsham Wolds, RAF Kirmington, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, RAF Worksop, RAF Wigsley, RAF Swinderby, RAF Acaster Malbis, RAF Blyton, RAF Catterick, RAF Wickenby, RAF Bicester and RAF Scampton. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Bolingbroke, Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He completed a total of 31 operations, one night operation with 83 operational training unit, 2 night and 8 daylight operations with 103 Squadron and 16 night and 5 daylight with 166 Squadron. Targets in France, Germany and the Netherlands were Criel, Stettin, Agenville, Eindhoven, Le Havre, Frankfurt, The Hague, Calais, Cap Griz Nez, Stuttgart, Essen, Cologne, Walcheren, Dusseldorf, Bochum, Dortmund, Frieburg, Karlsruhe, Merseburg, Kattegat, St Vith, Hannover and Zeitz. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Knott.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
Belgium--Saint-Vith
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lancashire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Shropshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Calais
France--Criel-sur-Mer
France--Le Havre
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Somme
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Zeitz
Manitoba--Carberry
Netherlands--Eindhoven
Netherlands--Hague
Netherlands--Walcheren
New Brunswick--Moncton
Ontario--Hamilton
Ontario--Picton
Scotland--Moray
Wales--Gwynedd
Poland--Szczecin
Poland
Ontario
New Brunswick
Belgium
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Manitoba
103 Squadron
1654 HCU
166 Squadron
1660 HCU
1667 HCU
20 OTU
83 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
Bolingbroke
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 5
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 3
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
RAF Acaster Malbis
RAF Bicester
RAF Blyton
RAF Catterick
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kirkham
RAF Kirmington
RAF Lindholme
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Paignton
RAF Penrhos
RAF Peplow
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF Swinderby
RAF Wickenby
RAF Wigsley
RAF Worksop
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/201/10044/BBaileyJDBaileyJDv1.1.pdf
3a146f510c94f18f8643a8ac43ad6772
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bailey, John Derek
John Derek Bailey
Bill Bailey
John D Bailey
John Bailey
J D Bailey
J Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. Two oral history interviews with John Derek "Bill" Bailey (b. 1924, 1583184 and 198592 Royal Air Force) service material, nine photographs, a memoir and his log book. He flew a tour of operations as a bomb aimer with 103 and 166 Squadrons from RAF Elsham Wolds and RAF Kirmington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Bailey and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-07
2017-01-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Bailey, JD
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[centred] “WAS IT ALL A DREAM” [/centred]
[centred] The Memories of a Wartime Bomb Aimer Bill Bailey with No. 1 Group Bomber Command February 1942 to April 1947
These things really happened. I now have difficulty in remembering what I did yesterday but happenings of Fifty-odd years ago seem crystal clear, or
Was it all a dream? [/centred]
[page break]
Chapter 1. Enlistment – Royal Air Force Training Command.
The story begins on 2 February, 1942, my 18th. Birthday, when I rushed off to the recruiting office in Leicester and enlisted in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve as potential aircrew. Being a founder member cadet (No. 6) of 1461 Squadron Air Training Corps was a help. I passed the various medicals, etc[sic] and was sent to the aircrew attestation centre in Birmingham for the various tests for acceptance as aircrew. Like most others I wanted to be a pilot but on the day I attended I think they had that day’s quota of pilots. It was said my eyesight was not up to pilot standard but I could be a navigator. I was said to have a ‘convergency’ problem and would probably try to land an aircraft about ten feet off the deck.. I was duly accepted for Navigator training. The procedure was then to be sent home, attend ATC parades regularly and await further instructions. This was known as ‘deferred service’ and with it came a letter of welcome to the Royal Air Force, from the Secretary of State for Air, at that time Sir Archibald Sinclair, and the privilege of wearing a white flash in my ATC cadet’s forage cap which denoted the wearer was u/t (under training) aircrew.
So it was that on the 27 July 1942 I was commanded to report for service at the Aircrew Reception Centre at Lords Cricket Ground, St. Johns Wood, London. I was now 1583184 AC2 Bailey, J.D., rate of pay two shillings and sixpence per day. We were billeted in blocks of flats adjacent to Regents Park and fed in a vary[sic] large underground car park at one of the blocks or in the restaurant at London Zoo. Talk about feeding time at the Zoo!! A hectic three weeks followed, issue of uniforms and equipment, dental treatment, numerous jabs, endless square bashing - the ATC training helped. Lectures on this, that and everything including the dreaded effects of
[page break]
VD, the latter shown in glorious Technicolor at the Odeon Cinema, Swiss Cottage. Not that this was of much consequence at that time because we were reliably informed that plenty of bromide was put in the tea.
One day on first parade I and one other lad from my Flight were called out by the Flight Corporal, a sadistic sod, who informed us we had volunteered to give a pint of blood. Apparently we had an unusual blood group and some was required for what purpose I have never really understood.
Having completed the aforementioned necessities it was a question of what to do with us next.
The next stage of training was to be ITW (Initial Training Wing). but there was congestion in the supply line from ACRC to the ITW’s so a “holding unit” (this term will crop up from time to time) had been established at Ludlow and it was to there that we went.
Ludlow consisted of three Wings in tented accommodation and was progressively developed into a more permanent establishment by the cadets passing through, using their civilian life skills. We were allowed (officially) one night in three off camp so as not to flood the pubs, of which there were many, with RAF bods, and cause mayhem in the town.
Four weeks were spent at Ludlow. It was said to be a toughening up course and it was certainly that.
Next stop from Ludlow was to an ITW. Most ITW’s were located in seaside towns with the sea front hotels having been requisitioned by the Air Ministry. In my case I was posted to No.4 ITW at Paignton, Devon where I was to spend the next twelve weeks living in the Hydro Hotel, right on the seafront near the harbour.
Twelve weeks of intensive ground training. At the end of this period I was at the peak
[handwritten in margin] followed (needs a verb[?]) [/handwritten in margin]
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of fitness and having passed my exams was promoted LAC – pay rise to seven shillings a day.
One of the subjects covered at ITW was the Browning .303 machine gun and I well remember the first lecture on this weapon when a Corporal Armourer giving the lecture delivered his party piece which went as follows: “This is the Browning .303 machine gun which works by recoil action. When the gun is fired the bullet nips smartly up the barrel, hotley [sic] pursued by the gases …”. Applause please!
Another subject learned was the Morse Code and here again the training in the ATC stood me in good stead.
The next phase would be flying training, but when and where?
On New Years[sic] Day 1943 we were posted from Paignton to yet another ‘holding unit’ at Brighton. The move from the English Riviera to Brighton was like going to the North Pole. At Brighton we were billeted in the Metropole Hotel. More lectures, square bashing and boredom, until, after about three weeks, on morning parade it was announced that a new aircrew category of Airbomber had been created and any u/t Navigators who volunteered would be guaranteed a quick posting and off to Canada for training.
Needless to say, yours truly stepped forward and within a week had been posted to Heaton Park, Manchester which was an enormous transit camp for u/t aircrew leaving the UK for Canada, Rhodesia or America for training.
They used to say it always rains in Manchester and it certainly did continuously whilst I was there. Anyone who has seen the film “Journey Together” will have seen a departure parade at Heaton Park in pouring rain. I am told that on the day that film was shot it was fine and the fire service had to make the rain. Sods Law I suppose!
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Chapter II. Canada – The Empire Air Training Scheme.
Next, after a farewell meal of egg and chips (In 1943 a delicacy), and a few words from the C in C Training Command, it was off to Glasgow to board the “Andes” for our trip to Canada.
The ‘Andes’ was said to be jinx ship in port. She didn’t let us down. In the Clyde she dropped anchor to swing the compass and when she tried to up anchor a submarine cable was wrapped around it. After a couple of days we finally left the Clyde and I endured six days of seasickness before arriving in Halifax, Nova Scotia and then to yet another enormous transit camp at Moncton, New Brunswick where we enjoyed food that we had not seen in the UK since the start of food rationing. It was in a restaurant in Moncton that I had my very first ‘T’ Bone steak.
The first task at Moncton was issue of cold weather kit to cope with the Canadian winter and Khaki Drill to cope with the very hot Canadian summer. We were at this time in the middle of the winter and colder than I had ever experienced before.. The next stop should have been to a Bombing & Gunnery School but before that there had to be the inevitable ‘holding unit’. So it was off to Carberry, Manitoba, five or six days on a troop train, days spent seeing nothing but trees, frozen lakes, the occasional trace of habitation and the odd trappers cabin. At intervals on the journey across Canada, people were taken off the train suffering from Scarlet Fever. It was believed that this disease came from the troopships.
As we passed through Winnipeg on our journey, for the first time we were allowed off the train and as we went from the platform to the station concourse we were greeted with bands playing a huge welcome from the good people of Winnipeg. They had in Winnipeg the “Airmens Club” and an invitation to visit if there on leave. They
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had a wonderful system of people who would welcome RAF chaps into their homes for a few days or a weekend when on leave. This was to stand me in good stead as you will hear later.
Shortly after arrival at Carberry I fell victim to Scarlet Fever and spent five weeks in isolation hospital at Brandon after which I and a fellow sufferer by the name of Peter Caldwell had two weeks sick leave in Winnipeg and the Airmens Club arranged for us to stay with an English family. Wonderful hospitality. The Canadians were wonderful hosts to the Royal Air Force.
Carberry and Brandon were, of course, on the Canadian Prairies and whilst in hospital at Brandon, one night and day there was a terrible dust storm and despite the usual Canadian double glazing, everywhere inside the hospital was covered in black dust. This is probably of little interest but to me at the time was an amazing phenomenom.
Now it was back to reality and a posting to 31 Bombing & Gunnery School at Picton, Ontario. A two day journey by train around the North Shore of Lake Superior to Toronto and Belleville and then twenty plus miles down a dirt road to Picton. The airfield still exists, on high ground, overlooking the town on the shores of Lake Ontario. The bombing targets were moored out in the lake and air gunnery practice took place out over the lake.
The weather during this spell was very hot and flying was limited to a period from very early morning until midday. Canadian built Ansons were used for bombing practice and Bolingbrokes, which were Canadian built Blenheims, were used for air to air gunnery practice. The target drogues were towed by Lysanders.
Nothing outstanding took place at Picton except perhaps for our passing out party which we held in Belleville. In my case, being full of Canadian rye whisky of the
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bootleg variety I literally passed out and for many years afterwards could not even stand the smell of strong spirits.
Having recovered from the passing out the next stop was No. 33 Air Navigation School, RAF Mount Hope, Hamilton. Ontario. Mount Hope is now Hamilton Airport. Navigation training in Ansons was fairly uneventful and ended with us receiving our Sergeants stripes and the coveted “O” brevet. (Known to all as the flying arsehole) The “O” brevet was soon to be replaced with brevets more appropriate to the trade of the wearer, ie “B” for Airbombers, “N” for Navigators, etc. Next it was back to Moncton for the return to the UK.
The return voyage was on the ‘Mauritania’ where there were only 50 sergeant aircrew who were to act as guards on the ship which was transporting a large number of American troops. O/c. Troops on the ship was a Royal Air Force Squadron Leader. To our amazement when the Americans boarded the ship they had no idea where they were going. Most seemed to think they were going to Iceland and when we told them Liverpool was our destination they could not believe it. We were asked where we picked up the convoy and when we told them we did not go in convoy this caused a great deal of consternation. All the troopships going back and forth between the UK and North America were too fast to be in convoys and fast zig zag runs were made across the Atlantic. It was very long odds against the likelihood of encountering a U Boat..
Having safely arrived in Liverpool our next temporary home was yet another ‘holding unit’.
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Chapter III. Flying Training Command.
This time it was the Grand Hotel in Harrogate overlooking the famous Valley Gardens.
The RAF had taken over both the Grand and Majestic Hotels. Sadly the Grand has now gone. I rcall our CO at the Grand was Squadron Leader L E G Ames the England cricketer. Time at Harrogate awaiting posting was filled by swimming, drill, the usual time filling lectures, etc. We did, of course, get what was known as disembarkation leave. I went home and whilst there my granddad, with whom I had always had a very close relationship, took ill and died at the age of 85 and I was very grateful that I had been able to talk to him and to attend the funeral.
Christmas was spent at Harrogate, there being a ban on service travel during the Christmas period. On, I believe, Boxing Day, Maxie Booth and myself were in Harrogate, fed up and far from home, when we were approached by a chap who asked if we were doing anything that night, to which we replied “No”. He then said he was having a small party at home that night and had two Air Ministry girls billeted wit6h his family and would we like to join them. We readily accepted and when we arrived at the party we found that one of the girls was Maxie’s cousin. Small world! Still at Harrogate on my birthday 2 February, now at the ripe old age of 20. My room mates contrived to get me very drunk. I will spare you the details.
After a short time we were posted to Kirkham, Lancs to yet another holding unit, for a couple of weeks and then onward to Penrhos, North Wales, 9(O) Advanced Flying Unit for bombing practice. We were using Ansons and 10lb practice bombs. In Canada the Ansons had hydraulic undercarriages but at Penrhos they were Mk1 Ansons and it was the Bombaimers job to wind up the undercarriage by hand. A hell
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of a lot of turns on the handle – not much fun.
Next move was to Llandwrog, Nr. Caernarvon for the Navigation part of the Course. Same aircraft flying on exercises mainly over the Irish Sea, N. Ireland, Isle of Man, etc. Llandwrog is now Caernarvon airport with an interesting small museum. [handwritten in margin] museum since closed [handwritten in margin]. Llandwrog was unusual in that the airfield and our living site were below sea level, a dyke between us and the Irish Sea. Because of this there was no piped water or drainage on our site and it was necessary to carry a ‘small pack’ and do our ablutions at the main domestic site which was above sea level. I, and a pal or two went into Caernarvon for a weekend in the Prince of Wales Hotel to get a bit of a civilised existence for a change. However our stay at Llandwrog was quite brief.
The 1st. March 1944 was very significant in that it marked the move from Flying Training Command to Bomber Command. 83 Operational Training Unit at Peplow in Shropshire. Never heard of Peplow? Neither had I, it is a few miles North of Wellington. [handwritten in margin] Peplow was formerly Childs Ercall – renamed to avoid conflict with High Ercall airfield, nearby, I understood. [handwritten in margin] We arrived by train at Peplow, in the dark, station ‘lit’ by semi blacked out gas lamps. Arriving at Peplow were Pilots, Navigators, Bombaimers, Wireless Operators and Gunners from different training establishments.
Somehow, the next day, we sorted ourselves out into crews of six, Pilot, Nav, Bombaimer, W/Op and two gunners and were ready to start the business of Operational flying as a bomber crew.. We had never met each other before but were to spend the next few months living together, flying together and relying on each other, and developing a unique comradeship..
Peplow was notable for several things. From our living site, the nearest Pub was five miles in any direction. Having twice walked in different directions to prove the
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mileage we quickly acquired pushbikes. At that time there were no sign posts. One night doing ‘circuits and bumps’ in a Wellington we were in the ’funnel’ on the approach to the runway, skipper put the flaps down and the aircraft started to make a turn to port which he could not control. He ordered me to pull up the flaps and he then regained control. We then climbed to a respectable height and skip asked me to lower the flaps. The same thing happened again, an uncontrollable turn to port and quickly losing height. Flaps pulled up and normal service resumed. Skip then got permission from Air Traffic to make a flapless landing which he managed without running out of runway. We taxied back to dispersal and on inspection found that when the flaps were lowered only the port side flaps came down. Apparently a tie rod between port and starboard must have come apart. Could have been nasty!
On a lighter note, when cycling back to camp from Wellington one night I had a problem with the lights on my bike and was stopped by P.C Plod and booked for riding a bike without lights. Fined 10 shillings.
Another incident clearly imprinted on my mind was one day in class we were being given a lecture on the dinghy radio. I had heard all about the dinghy radio so many times I could almost recite it. I was sitting on the back row in class and I put my head back against the wall and must have dropped off. Suddenly a piece of chalk hit the wall at the side of my head. I awoke with a start and the guy giving the lecture (A Flying Officer) said, “I suppose Sergeant, you know all about dinghy radio”. To which I foolishly replied “Yes Sir”. He then said “In that case you can come out and continue the lecture”. Even more foolishly I did.
When finished I was asked to stay behind to receive an almighty bollocking for being a smartarse.
Finally whilst at Peplow a young lady I met in Wellington gave me a red scarf for
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luck and after that my crew would never let me fly without it.
We were now getting down to the serious business of preparing for actual operations and on the 24.5.44 we were despatched on an actual operation which was known as a ‘nickel’ raid, leaflet dropping over France, a place called ‘Criel’. 4 hours 35 minutes airborne in a Wellington bomber.
[Where is chapter IV?]
Chapter V. No. 1 Group Bomber Command.
On the 26th. June we were on the move again, ever nearer to being on an operational Squadron in Bomber Command. This was to 1667 Conversion Unit at Sandtoft where we were to convert to four engine aircraft ‘Halifaxes’. These were Halifax II & V which were underpowered and notoriously unreliable and had been withdrawn from front line service. In fact Sandtoft was affectionately known as ‘Prangtoft’ because of the large number of flying accidents. One of my pals from Harrogate days, Harry Fryer, got the chop in a Halifax that crashed near Crowle.
So that I do not give any wrong ideas, let me say, the Halifax III with radial engines was a superb aircraft and equipped No. 4 Goup.
It was here at Sandtoft that we acquired the seventh member of our crew, a Flight Engineer, straight from RAF St. Athan and never having been airborne.
We obviously survived ‘Prangtoft’ and then moved on the 22 July to LFS (Lancaster Finishing School) at Hemswell, which supplied crews to No. 1 Group, Bomber Command, which was the largest main force group flying Lancasters. We were only two weeks at Hemswell, the sole object being to familiaise[sic] with the
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Queen of the skies, the LANCASTER. A beautiful aeroplane, very reliable, able to fly easily with two dead engines on one side, and to withstand considerable battle damage and still remain airborne.
Chapter VI. The Tour of Operations. 103 Squadron.
Now for the real thing. On the 10th August we joined 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds, in North Lincolnshire.
At this point I should like to introduce our crew:
P/O George Knott. Pilot & Skipper.
F/Sgt. Ron Archer. Navigator.
F/Sgt. Bill Bailey. Bombaimer.
F/Sgt. Gus Leigh. Wireless Opeator.
F/Sgt. Wally Williams. Flight Engineer.
F/Sgt. Jock Greig. Midupper Gunner.
F/Sgt. Paddy Anderson. Rear Gunner.
After a bit more training we eventually embarked on our first operation on the 29th,. August. I now propose to go through our complete tour of Operations as recorded in my flying log book and other documents.
Before doing that perhaps I should give an insight into Squadron procedure. We were accommodated in nissen huts on dispersed sites in the vicinity of the airfield, two Crews to a hut. The huts were sleeping quarters only and were heated by a solid fuel stove in the centre. Bloody cold in the bleak Lincolnshire winter. The messes were on the main domestic site. Every morning (provided there was no call out in the night)
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it was to the mess for breakfast, check if there was an Order of Battle and if you were on it. If not, we made our way to the flight offices and section leaders. I would go to the Bombing Leader’s office where we would review the previous operation and look at target photographs. Releasing the bombs over the target also activated a camera which took line overlap pictures from the release point to impact on the ground.. We would then return to the mess to await the next orders or perhaps take an aircraft on air test, although after ‘D’ day this practice was discontinued because the aircraft were kept bombed up in a state readiness. Temporarily at least Bomber Command was being used in a close support role to assist the Armies in France.
When a Battle Order was issued, the nominated crews assembled in the briefing room at the appointed time and when everyone was present the doors were closed and guarded. On a large wall map of Europe in front of us was a red tape snaking across the map from Base to the designated target. The length of the tape dictated the reaction of the assembled company.
Pilots, Navigators and Bombaimers did their pre-flight planning prepared maps and charts ready to go. Each crew member received a small white bag into which he emptied his pockets of everything. The seven bags were then put into one larger bag and handed to the intelligence office until our return. We, in turn, were given our ‘escape kits’ and flying rations. The escape kit was for use in the event of being shot down and trying to evade capture and return to England. We also carried passport size photographs which might enable resistance workers in occupied countries to get us fake identity documents. Phrase cards, compass, maps and currency notes were also included. The flying rations issued were mainly chocolate bars (very valuable at that time) also ‘wakey wakey pills’, caffeine tablets to be taken on the skipper’s orders. All ready to go. Collect parachutes, get into the crew buses and be ferried out to the
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Dispersals A visual check round the aircraft and then climb aboard. Start engines when ordered, close bomb doors, complete preflight checks and taxi to the end of the runway. The airfield controller’s cabin was located at the side of the runway and on a green lamp from him, open the throttles and roll. We were on our way. The Lancaster had an all up weight for take-off of 66000 lbs and needed the full runway, into wind, for a safe take-off. The maximum bomb load on a standard Lancaster was 7 tons but operating at maximum range the bomb load would be reduced to about 5 tons to accommodate a maximum fuel load.
On return from operations, after landing and returning to dispersal, shut down engines, climb down and await transport back to the briefing room for interrogation by intelligence officers. Hot drinks and tot of rum available and back to the mess for the customary egg, bacon and chips..
At this time were confined to camp because of the possibility of being of being[sic] called for short notice operations.
THE TOUR OF OPERATIONS.
No. 1 29.8.44 Target – STETTIN.
Checked Battle Order to find our crew allocated to PM-N.
Briefing for night attack on the Baltic Port of Stettin. Bomb load mainly incendieries.[sic] The route took us across the North Sea, over Northern Denmark, S.W. Sweden and then due South into the target, bomb and turn West to cross Denmark and the North Sea back to base. The force consisted of 402 Lancasters and 1 Mosquito of 1,3,6,& 8 Groups. It was a very successful attack and 23 Lancasters were lost. We suffered no damage from anti-aircraft fire and saw no fighters. Whilst crossing Sweden there was
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a certain amount of what was called friendly flak, shells bursting at about 10,000 ft whilst we were flying at 18000 ft
This was my first sight of a target and something I shall never forget, smoke, flames, bombbursts, searchlights, anti-aircraft fire. It was also very tiring having been airborne for 9 hours 25 minutes and flown some 2000 miles.
Used full quota of ‘wakey wakey’ pills.
No. 2. 31.8.44. Target .Flying Bomb launch site. AGENVILLE France.
Daylight attack, Master Bomber controlled This was one of several targets to be attacked in Northern France. Seemed like a piece of cake after the long trip to Stettin. Not so! We were briefed to bomb from 10,000 ft on the Master Bomber’s instructions. On approaching the target area there was 10/10 cloud and the call from the Master Bomber went like this: “Main Force – descent to 8,000ft and bomb on red TI’s (Target indicators). – no opposition” We descended to 8,000ft and immediately we broke cloud there were shells bursting around us, Fortunately dead ahead was the target and I called for bomb doors open and started the bombing run.. At the appropriate point I pressed the bomb release and nothing happened. A quick look revealed no lights on the bombing panel. Whilst I was checking the main fuse the rear gunner was calling “We are on fire Skip – there is smoke streaming past me” The ‘smoke’ proved to be hydraulic fluid which was vaporising. We climbed back into cloud and assessed the situation. Whilst in cloud we experienced severe icing and with the pitot head frozen we lost instruments which meant skip had no way of knowing the attitude[?] of the aircraft and for the one and only time in my flying career, we were ordered to prepare to abandon aircraft and I put on my parachute pack. However we emerged from cloud and normal service was resumed. We had no
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electrics, no hydraulics, bomb doors open and a full load of bombs still on board Skip decided to head for base via a North Sea designated dropping zone where I could jettison the bombs safely. This was accompanied by going back along the fuselage and using a highly technical piece of kit, a piece of wire with a hook on the end, pushing it down through a hole about each bomb carrier and tripping the release mechanism.
Having got rid of the bombs it was back to base, crossing the coast at a spot where we should not have been and risking being shot at by friendly Ack Ack gunners. We arrived back at base some one and a half hours late. Now for the tricky bit. The undercarriage, in the absence of hydraulic fluid, had to be blown down by compressed air. This was an emergency procedure and could only be tried once, a now or never situation. Now we have to make a flapless landing and hope that the landing gear is locked down and does not collapse when we land. Not being able to use flaps means the landing speed is greater than normal and then we have no brakes. Skip made a super landing but once on the runway could only throttle back and wait for the aircraft to roll to a stop. This it did right at the end of the runway.
On inspection after return to dispersal it appeared that a shell or shells had burst very near to the bomb bay and shrapnel had severed hydraulic pipes and electric cables in the bomb bay. I should think we were very close to having been blown to bits. This trip was a little bit sobering to say the least. The aircraft resembled a pepper pot but luckily no one was injured.
No. 3 3.9.44 Target Eindhoven Airfield, Holland. Daylight Operation.
Allocated to PM-X (N having been severely damaged on our last sortie)
A straight forward attack on the airfield, one of six airfields in Southern Holland
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attacked by.675 aircraft a mixture of 348 Lancasters and 315 Halifaxes and 12 Mosquitoes, all very successful raids and only one Halifax lost.
This was my first experience of the ‘Oboe’ target marking system now used by Pathfinders flying Mosquitoes.. A very accurate system – the markers were right in the middle of the runway intersections. Very impressive.
No.4 5.9.44. Target – Defensive positions around LE HAVRE.
Aircraft allocated PM-W. Bomb load 15,000 lbs High Explosives. Daylight operation.
This attack was in support of Canadian troops who were demanding the surrender of the German garrison. The first phase of Lancasters orbited the target awaiting the outcome. This was negative and the attack took place. In clear visibility our riming point was 2000 yards in front of the Canadian troops and the area around the aiming point was completely destroyed.
No.5 10.9.44 Target – LE HAVRE again. Daylight operation.
Aircraft allocated PM-E Bomb load 15000 lbs High Explosive. Daylight operation. 992 aircraft attacked 8 difference German strongpoints only yards in front of Canadian troops. All were bombed accurately. No aircraft were lost.
No.6 12.9.44. Target FRANKFURT. Night operation.
Aircraft allocated PM-G. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
This was an unusual operation in that we were one of several crews who were briefed to bomb 5 minutes ahead of main force, identifying the aiming point ourselves. The
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object was to occupy the defences whilst the pathfinders went in low to mark the aiming point for main force. Our route to target took us South into France, near Strasbourg and then a turn North East towards Frankfurt. Our navigator Ron at some point realised we were well off track because he was getting wrong positions due to distortion of the ‘Gee chain’, wither by jamming or almost out of range.
As well as being bombaimer I was also the H2S radar operator and so I switched this on to try to verify our position I managed to identify Mannheim on the screen and was then able, with Ron, to fix a course to the target. As we approached the target there were hundreds of searchlights but instead of combing the sky they were laid along the ground in the direction of our track. It took a few minutes to realise that what they were doing was putting a carpet of light on the ground so that any fighters above us would have us silhouetted against the light. Gunners be extra vigilant! I dropped the bombs and we headed for base without incident. Intelligence reports said it was a very successful attack.
No. 7 17.9.44 Target Ammunition Dump at THE HAGUE, Holland Daylight.
Aircraft allocated PM-B, Bomb load 15000lbs Gen. Purpose bombs.
This attack by 27 Lancasters of 103 Squadron only and was carried out without loss.
No. 8 24.9.44. Target CALAIS. Close support for the Army. Daylight.
Allocated aircraft PM-B Bomb load 15000 lbs GP Bombs.
103 & 576 Squadrons were chosen to attack this target, gun emplacements, at low level (2000 ft) in the interests of accuracy. The weather was atrocious, almost as soon as we got off the runway we were in cloud. However we set course for Calais flying
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at around 1000 ft so as to keep the ground in view. As we approached the Channel the cloud lifted a bit and we were able to climb to 2000 ft but as we approached the target the cloud base lowered again and we had to descend again to 1000 ft for the bombing run. A we approached the aiming point, I was lying in the nose and could see everything on the ground. And being in the best position to see what was going on. could see where I thought the worst of the anti-aircraft fire, and indeed small arms fire was coming from.. I therefore ‘suggested’ to skip that when I say “bombs gone” you put her over hard to port and get down on the deck. Bugger the target photograph, we’ll have a picture of the sky! George did this and where we would have been if we had gone straight on whilst the camera operated, were shell bursts. We got out of that unscathed. Of the 27 aircraft that started that attack, one was lost, 8 landed away with various degrees of battle damage and of the remainder only 3 aircraft returned to base undamaged. “B” was one of them. As Ron recorded in his notes “Oppositions – everything”.
No. 9 26.9.44. Target Gunsites at Cap Gris Nez Daylight.
Allocated aircraft PM-B Bomb load 15000 lbs GP Bombs.
This was a highly concentrated and successful attack with very little opposition. Obtained a very good aiming point photograph.
No. 10 27,9,44.
We were briefed to bomb in the Calais area again on 27th. Sept but this operation was aborted due to the bombsight being unserviceable.
This ended our operational career at 103 Squadron. Only two of our operations had been at night.
Ourselves and one other crew from ‘A’ flight were transferred to 166 Squadron at
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Kirmington, one of the three stations forming 13 Base, to form a new ‘A’ flight at 166.Squadron.
As a matter of interest, Kirmington is now South Humberside Airport. Before moving on to the next phase I should explain that operational aircrew were given six days leave every six weeks which will explain some of the gaps in the story.
Chapter VII. The Tour of Operations. 166 Squadron.
166 Squadron, Kirmington, Lincs.
When we arrived at Kirmington we were allocated a hut on a dispersed site in Brocklesby Wood, about as far as could be from the airfield. Primitive living arrangements, but not too far from the Sergeants Mess.
By now we were no longer confined to camp and “liberty buses” were run from camp to Grimsby and Scunthorpe. Most of us used to go to ‘Sunny Scunny’ where there was a cinema two well known pubs, The Bluebell and The Oswald, the latter became known as 1 Group Headquarters. This establishment had a large function room with a
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minutes after other aircraft had set course. We took part on second aiming point and catching up 20 minutes on round trip landed No.3 back at base.
No. 14 28.10.44 Target COLOGNE
Allocated aircraft AS-D Bomb Load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
Daylight operation. 733 aircraft despatched to devastate residential areas in NW of the City There was heavy flak opposition and our aircraft suffered some minor damage A piece of shrapnel came through the Perspex dome in front of me whilst I was crouched over the bombsight It hit me on the shoulder on my parachute harness but did me no harm.
This was a very good operation as ordered.
No. 15 29.10.44. Target Gunsites at DOMBURG. Walcheren Island, Holland. Allocated aircraft AS-M Bomb Load 15000 lbs HE. Daylight attack. 6 aircraft from 166 squadron together with 19 others attacked 4 aiming points. All were accurately bombed. There was no opposition.
No. 16 30.10.44. Target COLOGNE, Night operation.
Allocated aircraft AS-K Bomb Load 1x4000lb Cookie plus 9000 lbs HE.
No. 1 Group was assigned to attack aiming point which was not successfully attacked on 28th. October. Over the target there was clear visibility, moderate flak opposition. This was considered to have been a very good attack.
It was on this operation, whilst we were on the bombing run an aircraft exploded ahead of us. At least I believe it was an aircraft although the Germans used a device which we called a “scarecrow”. This was a pyrotechnic device which exploded to
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simulate an exploding aircraft. Presumable meant to put the frighteners on us!
On the 31,.10.44 we were again briefed to attack Cologne but having climbed to operating height a crew check by the Skipper revealed that Paddy our rear gunner was unconscious in his turret. Gus, wireless op went back and pulled him from the turret and onto the rest bed in the centre of the aircraft. He fitted him up with a portable oxygen bottle and skip made the decision to abort and return to base where an ambulance was waiting to whisk paddy[sic] off to sick bay. Apparently the problem had been a trapped oxygen pipe in the turret. We had been airborne for 2hrs 15 mins.
To depart for the moment from the tour of operations, it was about this time when I developed at[sic] rash on my face which turned to a weeping eczema which meant that I could not shave and I had to report sick. The Doc took a look and said, “OK You’re grounded”. I replied “You can’t do that Doc, my crew will have to take a spare bombaimer and I shall have to complete my tour with other crews”. After pleading my case Doc agreed to allow me to continue flying provided each time before flying I reported to Sick Quarters and had a dressing put on my face so that I could wear my oxygen mask. The Doc was treating me with various creams which had little or no effect until one day the WAAF medical orderly who applied the treatment said to the Doc “Why don’t we try a starch poultice”. The Doc suggested that was an old wives remedy. However as nothing else had worked he agreed to let the Waaf[sic] give it a try. I know not where this young lady learned her skills because I gathered she was a hairdresser in civvie street, in Leicester, my home town. She applied the said poultice and the next day I reported back to sick quarters where she removed the poultice and whatever was clinging to it. I went back to our hut and very carefully shaved. The starch poultice had done the trick. I thought frostbite had probably caused the
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problem in the first place but I was to learn some months later the real cause which I shall reveal later in the story.
No. 17. 2.11.44. Target DUSSELDORF. Night operation.
Aircraft allocated AS-C. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie and 9000 lbs HE.
“C” Charlie was now to become our regular aircraft, for which we developed a great affection and a very special relationship with the ground crew.
992 aircraft attacked Dusseldorf of which 11 Halifaxes and 8 Lancasters were lost. It was a very heavy and concentrated attack with extensive damage and loss of life. This was the last major Bomber Command raid of the war on Dusseldorf.
At about his [this] time friendships were struck up. In my case I was returning from leave and whilst waiting for my train at Lincoln Station to Barnetby (where I had left my bike) I met a Waaf, also returning from leave and who was, surprise, surprise stationed at Kirmington. I asked how she was getting from Barnetby to Kirmington and she said she was walking. No prizes for guessing that she got back to Kirmington on the crossbar of my bike. (No it was not a ladies bike). We became good friends and she along with others, would be standing alongside the airfield controllers cabin at the end of the runway to wave us off on operations.
Also at about his [this] time George and Gus acquired friends from the Waaf personnel, one of whom was a telephonist and the other a R/T operator in the control tower. When returning from operations George would call up base as soon as he was able, to get instructions to join the circuit. First to call would get the 1000’ slot and first to land. The procedure then was to make a circuit of the airfield around the ‘drem’ system of lights, report on the downwind leg and again when turning into the funnels on the
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approach to the runway. We would then be given the OK to land or if there was a runway obstruction, go round again. I understand that word was passed to those who wished to know that “Knott’s crew were in the circuit.”
No. 18. 4.11.44. Target BOCHUM. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000lbs HE.
749 aircraft attacked this target. Unusually Halifaxes of 4 Group slightly out numbered Lancasters. 23 Halifaxes and 5 Lancasters were lost. No. 346 (Free French) Squadron, based at Elvington, lost 5 out of its 16 Halifaxes on the raid. Severe damage was caused to the centre of Bochum, particularly the important steelworks.
This was the last major raid by Bomber Command on this target
It was about at this on return from an operation, I felt the need of a stimulant and so, instead of giving my tot of rum to Jock, I put it into my ovaltine, which curdled and I ended up with something resembling soup and a chastising from Jock for wasting ‘valuable rum’.
No. 19. 11.11.44. Target DORTMUND Oil Plant. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load, 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000lb HE.
.209 Lancasters, all 1 Group, plus 19 Mosquitoes from 8 Group (Pathfinders) attacked this target. The aiming point was a synthetic oil plant. A local report confirmed that the plant was severely damaged. No aircraft were lost.
No. 20 21.11.44. Minelaying Operations in OSLO FJORD Norway.
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Aircraft AS-E. Bomb load 6 x 1800 lb Accoustic[sic] and Magnetic Mines.
Six Lancasters from 166 Squadron and 6 from 103 Squadron detailed to plant ‘vegetables’ in Oslo Fjord. AS-E to mine a channel half a mile wide, between an island and the mainland. This was to catch U Boats based in the harbour at MANNS. The attack was carried out at low level and required a very accurate bombing run.. It was a major sin to drop mines on land as they were classified Secret This was a highly successful operation with no opposition and no aircraft lost. Time airborne 6hrs 45mins
No. 21. 27.11.44. Target “FREIBURG” S.W. Germany. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
Freiburg was not an industrial town and had not been bombed by the RAF before. However. No. 1 Group 341 Lancasters, which was maximum effort for the Group, plus 10 Mosquitoes from 8 Group, were called upon to support the French Army in the Strasbourg sector. It is believed the Freiburg was full of German troops. The target was accurately marked using the ‘OBOE’ technique from caravans based in France. 1900 tons of bombs were dropped on the target from 12000 ft in the space of 25 minutes. Casualties on the ground were extremely high. There was little opposition and only one aircraft was lost…
On this operation we carried a second pilot as a prelude to his first operation. He Was Charles Martin, a New Zealander and he and his crew were to claim “C” Charlie as their own when Knott’s crew had finished their tour. Martin’s wireless operator was Jim Wright, who now runs 166 Squadron Association and is the author of “On Wings of War”, the history of 166 Squadron.
This crew completed their tour on “C” Charlie and the aircraft survived the war.
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No. 22. 29.11.44. Target DORTMUND. Daylight operation,
“C” Charlie. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000 lbs HE.
This was no ordinary operation, 294 Lancasters from 1 Group plus the usual quota of Mosquitoes from 8 Group. At briefing we were told that as Bomber Command had been venturing into Germany and particularly Happy Valley in daylight, and, unlike the Americans, had not been attacked by large numbers of fighters, there was concern that because of our techniques in Bomber Command, each aircraft making its own way to the target in the Bomber stream, we might be very vulnerable to fighter attack. We could not possibly adopt the American system of flying in mass formations and do some boffin somewhere had come up with the ‘brilliant’ idea that we should indulge in gaggle flying. No practice, mind, just – this what you do chaps – get on with it.. The idea was that 3 Lancasters would have their tail fins painted bright yellow and would be the leading ‘Vic’ formation. All other aircraft would take off, find another squadron aircraft and formate on it. Each pair would then pack in together behind the leading ‘vic’ and the lead Navigator would do the navigating with the rest of the force following. The route on the flight plan took us across Belgium crossed the Rhine between Duisburg and Dusseldorf then passing Wuppertal and North East into the target area. All went well until we were approaching the Rhine when the lead navigator realised we were two minutes early. It was important not to be early or we would arrive on target before the pathfinders had done their job. The technique for losing two minutes was to do a two minute ‘dog-leg’. When ordered by the lead nav, this involved doing a 45 degrees starboard turn, two minutes flying, 90 degree port turn, 2 minutes flying, 45 degree starboard turn and we were then back on track.
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Unfortunately the apex of the dog-leg took us directly over Dusseldorf, a town which was very heavily defended. All the flak in the world came up, especially among the three lead aircraft and suddenly there were Lancs going in all directions. I actually saw a collision between two aircraft which both spiralled earthwards. Once clear of this shambles we found we were now in the lead and so we continued to the target and there being no markers down, apparently due to bad weather, I followed standard instructions and bombed what I could see. We had suffered slight flak damage but nothing to affect “C” Charlies[sic] flying capabilities and we arrived back at base 5 hours 35 mins after take-off. Six Lancasters were lost.
This was our one and only experience of ‘gaggle flying’.
No. 23. 4.12.44. Target KARLSRUHE. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
The railway marshalling yards were attacked by 535 aircraft. Marking and bombing were accurate and severe damage was caused. A machine tool factory was also destroyed. 1 Lancaster and 1 Mosquito were lost.
No. 24. 6.12.44. Target Synthetic Oil Plants “MERSEBERG LEUNA” Nr. Leipzig.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie 6000 lbs mixed HE.
475 Lancasters and 12 Mosquitoes were called upon to destroy Germany’s largest synthetic oil plant following numerous ineffective raids by the U.S. Air Force. This was the first major attack on an oil target in Eastern Germany and was some 500 miles from the bomber bases in England. “C” Charlie and crew were detailed to support pathfinder force (We were now considered to be an experienced crew). This meant we were to attack six minutes before main force. Weather conditions were
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very poor and marking was scarce and it was thought the attack was not very effective. However, post raid photographs showed that considerable damage had been caused to the synthetic oil plant and it was later revealed that the plant manager reported that the attack put the plant out of action and the second attack on 14.1.45 was not really necessary. 5 Lancasters were lost.
No.25. 12.12.44. Target ESSEN. Night attack.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie 10000 lbs HE bombs.
This was the last heavy night raid on Essen by 540 aircraft of Bomber Command. Even the Germans paid tribute to the accuracy of the bomb pattern on this raid which was thanks to “OBOE” marking by pathfinder Mosquitoes.
6 Lancasters lost.
No. 26. 13.12.44. Target Seamining [?] KATTEGAT. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 6 x 1800 lbs mines.
6 aircraft from 166 Squadron and 6 from 103 Squadron were detailed to lay mines in the Kattegat. This force took off in poor visibility but over the dropping zone the weather was good. On this occasion the mines were to be dropped using the blind bombing technique. I was to use the H2S radar which was a ground mapping radar. The dropping point was a bearing and distance from an identifiable point on the coast which gave a good return on the radar. On reaching the dropping point the pilot had to steer a pre-determined course and I had to release the mines at say, one minute intervals. The H2S screen was photographed so that the intelligence bods back at base could check that the mi8nes had been put down in the right place. In this case – spot on!! We then received a signal from base informing that the weather had
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clamped and we were diverted to Lossiemouth. We landed at Lossie having been airborne for 5 hrs 45 mins. At Lossie we were given beds and of course food, with the intention of returning to Kirmington the following morning.
The next morning we were given the Ok to return to Kirmington and went out to the aircraft. One engine failed to start and a faulty starter motor was diagnosed. A replacement was to be flown up from Kirmington. There we were dressed in flying kit with no money or toilet requisites and not knowing when the aircraft would be serviceable It certainly would not be today. We managed to secure a bit of cash from accounts and towels, etc from stores. That night Jock and I decided to go out on the town breaking all the rules about being out in public improperly dressed. However we got away with it. On the 17yth. “C” Charlie was serviceable and we were permitted to return to Kirmington. When we joined the circuit we could see Flying Fortresses on our dispersals having been diverted in the day before. The weather was certainly bad in the winter of 44/45.. The Americans crews allowed us to look over their Fortresses and we in turn invited them to look at our Lancaster. Their main interest centred on the Lancaster’s enormous bomb bay compared with their own.
21/12/44/ Seamining BALTIC Night operation.
Aircraft AS-H. Bomb load. 5 x 1800 lb mines.
This operation was aborted shortly after take-off due to the unserviceability of the H2S which was essential for the accurate laying of the mines. The visibility at base was very poor and we were given permission for one attempt at landing and if unsuccessful we were to divert to Carnaby in Yorkshire which was one of three diversion airfields with very long runways and overshoot facilities. We therefore
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jettisoned fuel to reduce the landing weight and made the approach. The airfield controller was firing white Very lights into the air over the end of the runway to guide us. We crept in over trees in Brocklesby Wood, trees which had claimed other Lancasters coming in too low, and made a perfect wheeled landing. It does not bear thinking about what would have happened if the undercarriage had collapsed, we were sitting on top of 9000 lbs of High Explosive. Good work skipper! Did not count as an operation.
The Squadron had a stand down at Christmas and on Christmas Day there was much merriment and a fair amount of booze put away and we went to bed a bit the worse for wear. It was therefore a bit upsetting to be got out of bed at 3am on Boxing Day morning, sent for an Ops meal and told to report for briefing at some unearthly hour. So to operation No. 27.
No. 27.. 26.12.44. Target “ST-VITH” Daylight operation.
Aircraft ‘B’. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie and 10000lbs HE.
“The Battle of the Bulge”, the German offensive in the Ardennes was in progress. A large force from Bomber Command was called upon to support the American 1st. Army trying to stem the German advances in the Ardennes. The attack was concentrated on the town of St. Vith where the Germans were unloading panzers to join the battle.
The whole of Lincolnshire was blanketed in fog with ground visibility of only a few yards. After briefing we went out to the aircraft, climbed aboard and waited for the time to start engines. Just before time there were white Very Cartridges fired from the
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control tower which indicated the operation was scrubbed. We returned to the mess and were given a new time to go out to the aircraft. Another flying meal.
We went out to the aircraft again and had a repeat performance. Third time lucky, we sat in the aircraft and although there was still dense fog, time came to start engines. This time no scrub. A marshall appeared in front of the aircraft with tow torches signalling us to start taxying and we were guided to the end of the runway. A glimmer of a green from the airfield controller and we turned onto the runway, lined up, set the gyro compass and we roared off down the runway at 1.15pm. Airborne and climbing we came out of the fog at about 200 ft and it was just like flying above cloud. We set course according to our flight plan and visibility across France and Belgium was first class. No cloud and snow on the ground. We did not really need navigation aids, I was able to map read all the way to the target. Approaching the target area there were a few anti aircraft shell bursts and it was apparent the Germans had advanced quite a long way. We bombed from 10000ft and the bombing was very concentrated and accurate. In fact it was reported that 80% of the attacking aircraft obtained aiming point photographs.
It was now time to concern ourselves with the return to Kirmington. The fog was still there and the only 1 Group airfield open was Binbrook, high up on the Lincolnshire Wolds, which stuck out of the fog like an island. The whole of 1 Group landed at Binbrook. There were Lancasters parked everywhere. Whilst we were in the circuit awaiting our turn to land, I was looking out of the window and noticed a hole in the wing between the two starboard engines. When we had landed and shut down the engines, we went to look at the hole. On top of the wing it was very neat but on the underside there was jagged aluminium hanging down around the hole. Obviously a shell had gone up and passed through the wing on its way down, without exploding.
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An airframe fitter looked at the damage and said the aircraft was grounded. This meant that after interrogation we were allowed to return to Kirmington by bus and proceed on leave.
Our next operation was not until 5.1.45 but some of us returned early from leave to attend a New Year party in the WAAF mess which was actually situated in Kirmington Village.
No.28. 5.1.45. Target HANOVER Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
325 Aircraft of Nos. 1 and 5 Groups were briefed for the second of a two pronged attack on Hanover.
Nos. 4 and 6 Groups had bombed the target two hours earlier with bomb loads of mainly incendiaries. When we crossed the Dutch coast, the fires could be seem[sic] from at least 100 miles away. Our track took us towards Bremen and was meant to mislead the enemy into believing that was our target. However we did a starboard turn short of Bremen and ran into Hanover from the North. The target was well bombed and rail yards put out of action. I don’t know what we did right but “C” Charlie arrived back at base 4 minutes before anyone else.
No. 29. 6.1.45. Seamining. STETTIN Bay. Night operation.
Aircraft AS-D. Bomb Load 6 x 1500lb Mines.
Knott and crew started their third and final gardening trip (As seamining was known) 48 aircraft of Bomber Command were detailed to plant ‘vegetables’ in the entrance to Stettin Harbour and other local areas. The enemy was able to pick up the force 100 miles North East of Cromer because bad weather condition forced us to fly at 15000
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ft to the target instead of the usual 2000ft,. As a result of this early warning enemy fighters were waiting and the target area was well illuminated by fighter flares. It was believed that the enemy thought this was a major attack on Berlin developing. Knott and crew dropped their vegetables in the allotted area, securing a good H2S photograph and again returned to base first.
No. 30. 14.1.45. Target MERSEBERG LEUNA (Again) Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie plus 5500 lbs HE.
200 Aircraft attacked this target to finish off the job started on 6th December. A very successful attack.
No. 31. 16.1.45. Target Oil refinery ZEITZ Nr. Leipzig.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 6000 lbs GP Bombs.
This was the one we had been waiting for, our last operation. We went into briefing and were told by the intelligence officer that although we were being briefed the operation might be cancelled because a large force of Amercan[sic] Fortresses and Liberators had been to the target earlier in the day and a photo recce Mosquito had gone out to photograph the target and assess the results. Before the end of briefing it was confirmed that that[sic] the Americans had missed and our operation was on. At 1720 on the 16th January we took off on this operation. Over the target there were hundreds of searchlights, the markers were in the right place and we completed our bombing run. The target was well ablaze and there were massive explosions. At one point Paddy called out “We’re coned skip” meaning we were caught by searchlights.
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It was briefly very light in the cabin but the light was caused, not by searchlights but by the explosions from the target.
Of the 328 Lancasters that attacked the target, 10 were lost.
When we returned to base all of our ground crew, including one guy who had returned early from leave, were there to welcome us and join in a little celebration.
George Knott was awarded an immediate Distinguished Flying Cross, said to be a crew award for completing a tour of operations.
All seven of us were posted from Kirmington, on indefinite leave to await our next assignments.
Apart from activities in the Officers and Sergeants Messes, and trips into Scunthorpe where the “Oswald” was the central drinking point, the main point of activity was the pub in Kirmington village. The “Marrow Bone & Cleaver” or the “Chopper” as it was known, was the meeting place for all ranks. The pub is now a shrine to the Squadron, there is a memorial in the village, lovingly cared for by the villagers’ and memorial plaques in the terminal building at Humberside Airport.
There is also a stained glass window in Kirmington Church.
I have mentioned our off base activities but, of course, a lot of time was spent in the Mess and the radio was our main contact with the outside world. I think the most popular program was the AFN (American Forces Network). They had a program which I believe was called the “dufflebag program”. Glen Miller and all the big [inserted in margin] this sentence needs a verb! [/inserted in margin] bands of the day. The song “I’ll walk alone” was very popular and was recorded by several singers. The British one was Anne Shelton, an American whose name escapes me and another American called Lily Ann Carroll (Not sure about the spelling of that name). This girl had a peculiar voice but it had something about it.
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Since the war I have not been able to find anyone who ever heard of her but I did hear the record placed on one of the archives programs on BBC, two or three years ago. If anyone knows of Lily Ann Carroll I would love to know.
I can’t remember where it was but on one occasion when we were out together as a crew, someone asked what the “B” meant on my brevet. Quick as a flash Paddy jumped in “It means Big Bill Bailey the bastard Bombaimer”.
The completion of our tour of operations was of special relief to Gus Leigh, our wireless operator who incidentally had a few weeks earlier had[sic] been commissioned as Pilot Officer. Gus was married and his wife Enid was pregnant and lived in Kent. George our skipper had relatives who lived near Thorne which was quite near to Sandtoft and not really too far from Elsham and Kirmington so it was arranged that Enid would come to stay with George’s relatives and Gus would be able to see her fairly regularly. As we approached the end of our tour you can appreciate the tension. I was to hear later that after we had left Kirmington, Enid had a son and then suffered a massive haemorrhage and died. What irony, a baby that so easily could have been fatherless was now motherless.
Before leaving the scene of operations, so to speak, I would like to clear up one or two points.
I have often been asked the question, were you frightened? I can only speak for myself and maybe my crew. I don’t think ‘frightened’ was the right word, apprehensive, maybe but except for a very few, I believe all aircrew believed in their own immortality. It was always going to be the other guy who got the chop, never yourself. Had this not been the case then we would never have got into a Lancaster.
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Ron Archer used to tell me he thought we were the luckiest crew in Bomber Command.
There were, of course, a very few aircrew who lost their nerve and refused to fly. All aircrew were volunteers and could not be compelled to fly but if that became the case then they would be sent LMF (Lack of moral fibre) and would lose their flying badge and be reduced to the ranks.
Much has been said and written in recent years about the activities of Bomber Command and in particular our Commander in Chief, “Bomber” Harris. I believed then, and still believe that what was done was right. I did not bomb Dresden, but had I been ordered to do so, I would not have given it a second thought.
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Chapter VIII. Lossiemouth.
I was at home in Wigston, Leicestershire and my 21st birthday, the 2nd February was fast approaching. Parents and friends were trying to organise a party, meagre rations, permitting. They need not have worried because I received instructions to proceed immediately to 20 OUT Lossiemouth, At 9.30 pm the eve of my birthday I caught a train from South Wigston station to Rugby and then onto a train bound for Scotland. I arrived at Lossiemouth at 11pm and following day. What a way to spend a 21st birthday!
The next day having completed arrival procedures I duly reported to the Bombing Leader for duty. At the same time I discovered that George Knott had also been posted to Lossiemouth as a screened pilot. I flew with him ocassionally[sic] when he needed some ballast in the rear turret when doing an air test.
The role of 20 OUT was to train Free French Aircrew, again flying Wellingtons and my job was to fly with them on bombing exercises to check that they were using correct procedures. I used to say, “Patter in English please”, which was alright until they got a bit excited and lapsed into French. Bombing took place on Kingston Bombing Range, on the coast East of Lossiemouth. One of my other jobs was to plot the bombs on a chart using co-ordinates given by observers at quadrant points on the
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range. These were phoned through to the bomb plotting office. The student bombaimer then came to the office to see the results of his aiming efforts. 10 lb smoke bo9mbs were used for daylight bombing and 10 lb flash bombs for night bombing. In the summer at Lossie, night flying was almost impossible due to the short night in those Northern parts. It was quite common to take off after sunset and then see the sun set again.
After a few weeks I was attached from 20 OUT to 91 Group Airbomber instructors school at Moreton in Marsh for 3 weeks before becoming an official instructor. I returned to 20 OUT and shortly afterwards was again sent off on a course, this time to the Bomber Command Analysis School at Worksop. Here I became an alleged expert on the Mark XIV Bomsight.[sic] This was a gyro stabilised bombsight [sic] which was a tactical bombsight [sic] rather than a precision bombsight.[sic] It consisted of a computor[sic] box and a sighting head and obtained information of airspeed, height, temperature and course from aircraft instruments plus one or two manual settings and converted this information into a sighting angle. The only piece of vital information to be added was the wind speed and direction which had to be calculated by the Navigator. The bombaimer was then able to do a bombing run without the necessity of flying straight and level.. It took account of climbing, a shallow dive and banking. The sequence of events when bombing was, when the bomb release (hereafter called the ‘tit’ [)]was pressed several things happened, the bombs started to be released in the order set on the automatic bomb distributor, so that they were dropped in a ‘stick’. The photoflash was released, the camera started to operate and as the bombs reached the point of impact almost immediately beneath the aircraft, the photographs were taken. Having used this equipment for the whole of my tour of operations I can vouch for its performance. The Americans had their much vaunted Norden and Sperry Bombsights [sic]
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which were claimed to be very accurate but required the aircraft to maintain a straight and level flight path for an unacceptable time against heavily defended targets. The Mk XIV was so good that the Americans adopted it for their own aircraft and called it the T1 Bombsight. Many T1’s were used by the RAF in lieu of the MkXIV. A matter of production I guess.
On my return from Worksop, with glowing reports from my two courses, the Bombing Leader said “OK Flight Sergeant you had better apply for a commission.” This I did and after going through all the procedures was commissioned in the rank of Pilot Officer (198592) on the 5th June, 1945.
Of course ‘VE’ Day took place on the 5th May after which it was only a matter of time before the OTU’s were run down and in the case of Lossiemouth this was to be sooner rather than later. The Wellingtons were all flown down to Hawarden in Cheshire for eventual disposal, I must record one tragic incident which happened whilst I was at Lossiemouth. One Sunday morning a Wellington took off on air test and lost an engine on take-off and the pilot was obviously trying to make a crash landing on the beach to the East of Seatown. He didn’t make it and crashed on top of a small block of maisonettes killing most of the inhabitants who were still in bed. A tragic accident!
The question now arose as to where next we would all go. We were given the option of being made redundant aircrew, going to another OTU or going back to an operational Squadron. My problem was solved for me, ‘Johnnie’ Johnson, ‘A’ Flight Commander, came into the plotting office and said “I’m going back on ops, I want a bombaimer”. Thus I joined his crew and other instructors made up a full crew with the exception of a flight engineer, all having done a first tour. Johnnie had to revert
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from his Squadron Leader rank to Flight Lieutenant. All the other members of the crew were officers.
Chapter IX Tiger Force.
On the 6th. July we went to 1654 Conversion Unit at Wigsley, were not wanted there and were sent to 1660 Conversion Unit at Swinderby. It was necessary to do a conversion course becaused[sic] Johnnie had done his first tour on Halifaxes and needed to convert to Lancasters. We also picked up a Flight Engineer who was actually a newly trained pilot, who had also done a flight engineers course, there now being a surplus of pilots. He happened to be a lad I knew from my ATC days.
We were now part of “Tiger Force” which was 5 Group renamed and we were to fly the Lancasters out to Okinawa to join in the attack on Japan. The Lancasters would shortly be replaced by the new Lincoln bombers which were bigger, more powerful and had a longer range.
We commenced our training, for my part I had to familiarise myself with ‘Loran’ which was a long range Gee for use in the Pacific. I did say earlier in the story that I would tell you about my ‘rash’. At Swinderby I had a recurrence and immediately reported sick. The Doc took a look at me and said “Oh! We know what that is, it is oxygen mask dermatitis, when you sweat your skin is allergic to rubber. We will make you a fabric mask. Problem solved. The new mask was not needed, however,
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because the war ended and with it my flying career.
VJ Day was a wild affair, In the “Halfway House” pub at Swinderby my brand new officer’s cap was filled with beer when I left it on a stool.
In a final salute to the mighty Lancaster, Swinderby had an open day to celebrate the end of the war and the Chief Flying Instructor, the second on three, the third on two and finally the fourth on one engine. What an aeroplane! What a pilot!
Chapter X The last chapter.
There followed a strange period. First to Acaster Malbis, nr York where all redundant Aircrew handed in their flying kit. Then to Blyton, Nr. Gainsborough where we were given a choice of alternative traded. Seldom did anyone get their first choice and I was chosen to become an Equipment Officer and after a brief spell at Wickenby was posted to the Equipment Officers School at RAF Bicester. A four week course and I was meant to be a fully qualified equipment officer. I was posted to Scampton but not needed there and so was posted on to RAF Cosford where I was put in charge of the technical stores. The Chief Equipment Officer was fairly elderly Wing Commander who took me under his wing and kept a fatherly eye on me. The Royal Air Force was beginning to return to peacetime status and Wingco[sic] warned me that it was probably not a good idea to fraternize with my ex Aircrew NCO’s in the “Shrewsbury Arms”. If you must, get on your bikes and go further afield, was his advice.
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One Monday morning I was called up to the WingCo’s office to be asked “Where is F/Sgt. Brown (Not his real name) this morning”. “I don’t know sir” I replied. “Well I will tell you” he said. “He is under arrest at Shifnal Police Station”
This particular ex Aircrew NCO lived in a village quite near to Cosford and had permission to ‘live out’. It transpired that almost everyone in his village had new curtains made from RAF bunting and quite a few people were wearing RAF or Waaf shoes. I was ordered to do a stock check on my section and for his part he was charged by the Civil Police and at Shifnal Magistrates Court received little more than a slap on the wrist. No doubt his war service stood him in good stead. Because he had been dealt with by the Civil Courts he could not be charged and Court Martialled by the RAF and all that happened was that he was posted away from Cosford and released early into civvie street.
At the time, lots of POW’s were passing through Cosford on their way from POW Camps in Europe to their homes.
Monthly “Dining In” nights were also resumed in the Officers Mess. Due to officers leaving the station or being demobbed, at every “Dining In” we were “Dining Out” those departing., always ending in a wild party. I remember one night which was extremely boisterous ending with Bar Rugby, footprints on the ceiling, the lot. I had better leave to the imagination how the footprints on the ceiling were achieved. That night I went to bed at about 3 am and when I went in to breakfast the following morning the mess was immaculate. The staff had obviously been up all night cleaning up.
On the 4th. November 1946 I received my final posting from Cosford to Headquarters Technical Training Command, at Brampton Nr. Huntingdon to be Unit Equipment
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Officer. The Headquarters Unit consisted of a Squadron Leader C.O., a Flight Lieutenant Accountant Officer, a Flight Lt. Equipment Officer and their staffs. I had a hairy old Sergeant Equipment Assistant who I believe was a regular airman and probably looked upon me as not a real Equipment Officer. However, his knowledge and experience were invaluable.
I enquired as to the whereabouts of my predecessor to be told that he had already gone having been posted abroad. There was, therefore, no handover of inventories. The next surprise was even greater, I was told that I also had RAF Kimbolton to finish closing down. I took myself to Kimbolton to find a ‘care and maintenance party’ of three airmen and one Waaf. Two were out on the airfield shooting rabbits and the other two were dealing with some paperwork. The entire camp had been almost cleared, barrack equipment to a storage/disposal site, fuel to other sites and/or the homes of the local population. Legend had it that a grand piano from the Sergeants Mess had gone astray. One day a Provost Squadron Leader came into my office and said: “Bailey, I want you to come with me to St. Neots Police Station to identify some rolls of linoleum which they have recovered from a farmer”. We went to St. Neots and a police sergeant showed us several rolls of obvious Air Ministry linoleum standing in a cell. I examined the rolls and could find no AM marks so I told the Provost that I could say the rolls ere exactly similar to AM Lino but I could not positively identify them as AM property. The provost told the police sergeant to give the lino back to the farmer. Heaven only knows how many houses had their floors covered in Air Ministry lino in the Kimbolton area. No doubt this sort of thing was happening all over the country. The politicians were so anxious to get servicemen back into civvies street that establishments were seriously undermanned.
When I, a mere Flying Officer, did the final paperwork for RAF Kimbolton I raised a
[page break]
write off document well in excess of £1 million at 1947 prices and this only involved equipment known to be missing.
With regard to Brampton itself, the winter of 46/47 was extremely severe with heavy snowfalls. Even the rail line between Huntingdon and Kettering was blocked. When the snow thawed there was severe flooding. One weekend I went home and returned to Camp on Sunday afternoon to find that the previous night there had been a severe storm with gale force winds and Brampton was a scene of devastation. Trees had been blown down crushing nissen huts. The camp was flooded and the sewage system was completely useless. The following morning I located a stock of portable loos (Thunder boxes so called). A four wheel drive vehicle was despatched through the flood waters surrounding Huntingdon, to RAF Upwood to collect these things. Things gradually returned to something like normal but it was a terrible time. The Officers Mess at Brampton was in the large house in Brampton Park and the Headquarters Staff from the C in C Technical Training Command down, were housed in Offices adjacent to Brampton Grange. There were far more senior officers at Brampton than junior officers because of the very nature of the place.
The PMC of the mess was a Group Captain and one day he came to me and said “Bailey, we are going to have a Dining In and I thought it would be nice if we could have some proper RAF crested crockery and cutlery”. I informed the PMC that these items were not on issue whereupon he suggested that I use my initiative.
It just so happened that whilst I was a[sic] Cosford I learned that in the Barrack Stores the very things I was being asked to get were in store, having been there throughout the War. I spoke with the Wing Commander, my former boss, who
agreed to release a quantity of crockery, etc. I informed the PMC of my success and he arranged for a De Havilland Rapide aircraft from our communications flight at nearby Wyton to take
[page break]
me to Cosford to collect the two heavy chests of crocks. I am sure the Rapide was overloaded on the flight back to Wyton but the mission was accomplished and the PMC was able to show off his ‘posh’ tableware at the next Dining In.
I was shortly to have to make a major decision, the date was fast approaching for my release back into civilian life, I had agreed to serve six months beyond my release date and had made an application for an extended service commission which would have kept me in the Royal Air Force for at least another six years. However my civilian employers became aware that I had done the extra six months and were not amused. I, despite having access to ‘P’ staff at Brampton could not get a decision from Air Ministry and I made the decision to leave the service.
On 1st. April, how significant a date, I headed off to Kirkham in Lancashire to collect my demob suit. A very sad day.
This is the end of the ‘dream’ but not quite the end of my love affair with the Royal Air Force. But that, as they say, is another story ……
[page break]
Two photographs in RAF uniform; one in 1942 aged 18 and the other in 1945 aged 21.
[page break]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Was it all a Dream
The memoirs of Wartime Bomb Aimer Bill Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Bailey's wartime memoirs, from enlistment, training in UK and Canada and detail of each of 31 operation in Bomber Command. After completion of his tour he was transferred to Lossiemouth to train Free French aircrew. After successful progress he was offered a commission. Later he trained for Tiger Force ops at RAF Wigsley and Swinderby. When the Force was cancelled he became an Equipment Officer at Bicester then Cosford, Brampton and Kimbolton.
Creator
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Bill Bailey
Format
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45 typewritten sheets and two b/w photographs
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Photograph
Identifier
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BBaileyJDBaileyJDv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Free French Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Germany
Great Britain
Norway
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
England--Birmingham
England--Devon
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--London
England--Yorkshire
France--Domléger-Longvillers
France--Ardennes
France--Calais
France--Cap Gris Nez
France--Le Havre
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Leipzig
Manitoba--Carberry
Netherlands--Domburg
Netherlands--Eindhoven
New Brunswick--Moncton
Norway--Oslo
Nova Scotia--Halifax
Ontario--Hamilton
Ontario--Picton
Poland--Szczecin
Netherlands--Hague
France
Ontario
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Netherlands
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Warwickshire
Manitoba
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Sue Smith
David Bloomfield
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1 Group
103 Squadron
166 Squadron
1660 HCU
1667 HCU
4 Group
5 Group
576 Squadron
8 Group
83 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
B-17
Bolingbroke
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
briefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
flight engineer
Gee
ground personnel
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Halifax Mk 5
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lincoln
Lysander
Master Bomber
medical officer
memorial
mid-air collision
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
Mosquito
Oboe
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
perception of bombing war
prisoner of war
promotion
RAF Acaster Malbis
RAF Bicester
RAF Binbrook
RAF Blyton
RAF Brampton
RAF Cosford
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Hawarden
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kimbolton
RAF Kirmington
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Paignton
RAF Penrhos
RAF Peplow
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF St Athan
RAF Swinderby
RAF Worksop
RAF Wyton
Scarecrow
searchlight
superstition
Tiger force
training
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/977/11388/PMarriottMW1701.1.jpg
5a3b61b21b2d24a22ae4c152815572a8
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/977/11388/AMarriottMW170824.2.mp3
15135eb3b22eaf671462d807e1ddf2e0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marriott, Maurice William
M W Marriott
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Sergeant Maurice Marriott (b. 1924, 1627148 Royal Air Force). He flew as a navigator with 194, 96 and 110 Squadrons.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Maurice Marriott and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Marriott, MW
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is Thursday the 24th of August 2017. And I’m in Duston, Northampton with Maurice Marriott to talk about his life and times. So, Maurice what are your earliest recollections of life?
MM: I think my, one of the things I recall is my grandmother’s pub that she ran in Wansford near Peterborough. I remember the, the skittle room and the people in there. In particular I can remember the skittles being thrown and the noise they made.
CB: And what did your parents do?
MM: My father was a railway clerk on the LMS railway. And my mother was originally a school, schoolteacher.
CB: Yeah. And where did you go to school?
MM: I went to school in Northampton. Stimpston Avenue School in Northampton to start off. Then Campbell Square Intermediate School. And then Northampton Technical College after that. When I was twelve years old I think it was when I started at Northampton Technical College taking Commercial Studies.
CB: And what age did you leave school?
MM: I left school, my father had previously died when I was eight years old and I left school early because a job came up on the railway as a clerk which was, in those days was considered quite a good job. And I went for an interview and I got that job and I left school when, just when I was just over fifteen years old.
CB: And what did you do in this job?
MM: That was a clerk on the railway. Which I continued until I joined the RAF. I had various different jobs, at I worked at different places. Wolverton, Northampton and Bletchley and in the Goods Department. Then I was a claims clerk on, that was on, based at Northampton station.
CB: Did you enjoy that?
MM: Well, yes. It was, yeah quite a friendly, you know, crowd and everything. Yes. I wasn’t, you know it wasn’t particularly exciting. I was offered another job. A better job. But the railway wouldn’t release me. And I went to a tribunal in the end but they still wouldn’t release me. So I had to stop there until I joined up. They told me I couldn’t join up. It was a reserved occupation. I said, ‘Well, I’m already, I’ve already volunteered and I’ve got my number and everything.’ Previously four of us went down and joined up together in Northampton. And I told them that I’d already volunteered for the Air Force.
CB: Did they all join the Air Force as well in the end?
MM: They all joined. Three of us went to Cardington. Well, four of us went to Cardington and three of us passed out PNB — pilot, navigator, bomb aimer. And the fourth one failed the medical and he, he went in as ground staff and unfortunately he, he, we were all seventeen years old but he was already a smoker and he stopped smoking and, and was on the ground staff. And then he re-mustered as aircrew and as a flight engineer he was killed soon after he started flying. That was —
CB: On ops. Had he got to operations?
MM: On ops. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
MM: And we were still, that was just after we, I think it was just after we, we were on deferred service for a time, the three of us. We couldn’t join for PNB training until we were eighteen and a half years old. And I think, think it was just about when we joined up he was killed. He was killed on the, as a flight engineer on ops.
CB: He was older than you was he?
MM: Pardon?
CB: He was older than you.
MM: No. He was the same age as us. Yeah.
CB: Extraordinary. Yeah. Just taking a step back the war started soon after you started your employment on the railway. So 1939 was —
MM: Yes.
CB: When you were fifteen, wasn’t it?
MM: Yes.
CB: So, what —
MM: Well I, when the war started I was still fourteen.
CB: Yes.
MM: And, and yes, well [pause] yes, it was. Sorry, I’m just a bit —
CB: It’s alright. So the war started when you were still fourteen.
MM: Yeah.
CB: What do you remember about the starting of the war?
MM: Well, I remember hearing the announcement that you know we, at that age we were all very keen on listening to the radio. No television of course. But we all listened to the radio and kept apace with what was going on and, you know, we heard the announcement that we were at war. And at, and that is probably soon after then when I started taking an interest in in aeroplanes. Although I’d previously, as a boy I used to go with, with a Sunday school teacher who used to have a Lagonda and used to take us boys looking at the aircraft at Sywell. And I suppose from that day I was interested in aircraft. And then when I was about fifteen I suppose I joined the Air Training Corps and I couldn’t wait to be called up. So I volunteered.
CB: Yes.
MM: To go in the Air Force.
CB: So the other options were Army or Navy. Did you consider those at all?
MM: I never considered them. No.
CB: Right. And what was your aim in aircrew? What task did you want to do?
MM: I think like everyone else we all wanted to be pilots. I think nearly everyone that joined up thought you know that was the glamorous job. Pilot.
CB: In 1940 there was the calamity of Dunkirk. How much did you learn about that?
MM: Well, I remember quite clearly there was a lot of Frenchmen came to Northampton and I remember where they were. A lot of them were billeted on the Kettering Road near St Michael’s Avenue and I used to talk to them about various things. Practiced my French. A lot of school boy French. And used to talk to them about their experiences and one thing and another.
CB: And what was their general demeanour? How did they feel about their circumstances?
MM: Well, they were all, you know it was quite upsetting really for them of course. They didn’t know. They were there. Got nothing to do sort of thing and they were just waiting to find out. They had to be told what was going to happen to them sort of thing. They didn’t know and I would imagine they eventually joined the Free French Army and one thing and another. Under De Gaulle, you know.
CB: So there was a camp set up was there?
MM: No. There wasn’t a camp. I don’t know what happened to all the Frenchmen in the end there.
CB: Right.
MM: That’s all very vague to me now.
CB: Of course.
MM: It’s all a long time ago now.
CB: So, with the ATC activity in mind what were you doing as an ATC cadet?
MM: Well, I used to go you know with you know, make friends with a lot of the boys who was in the ATC and we used to go there and sort of learn all about, you know sort of Morse. Morse and drilling and keeping fit. You used to go to the gym with the ATC and sort of do various, you know gym activities. You know, on the pommel horse and one thing or another. And I was quite athletic in those days. I used to do a lot running. I used to run the mile and one thing and another. But —
CB: And RAF Sywell was quite near.
MM: That’s right.
CB: So what opportunities did you have to go there?
MM: Yes. I, yes I flew from there with Wing Commander Mackenzie who was CO at, of the Number 5 EFTS at Sywell and he took me up for a, and we did a few aerobatics which I think he tried to frighten me. Which I think he did [laughs]
CB: What did that do to your resolve?
MM: I was more, more determined than, than ever to get in the Air Force. Yes.
CB: The railway workers at the time. What sort of people were they?
MM: Oh, well they were you know quite a nice crowd. A lot of, sort of girls and young when I was at, in Northampton at the, at one of the places I worked for a while. At Far Cotton it was called. Far Cotton. A lot of girls there. Comptometer operators. And, oh we had quite a bit of fun in between working but we worked hard as young, young lads and that there. And in those days we had to do shorthand and typing and one thing and another which I, one of the exams I passed to get on the railway in those days.
CB: And then there were a lot of older people were they?
MM: Oh, yes.
CB: Who couldn’t be called up.
MM: Yeah. Yes. A lot of them that were sort of near retiring age I suppose. Yeah. But — yeah.
CB: And the railways were busy.
MM: Oh, yes.
CB: All the time.
MM: Everything went by rail in those days and came to, and all the deliveries were done by drays. Horse and drays around the towns. Used to come in to, and be unloaded in Northampton at the Castle Station goods depot sort of thing. And all delivered around the town in horse drawn, horse drawn drays.
CB: So were there many lorries in those days?
MM: Yes. There were a few lorries but most of them were, they used to do the heavy deliveries from Far Cotton in most of the broken down sort of lorries. Old. Second hand. And there were still some big lorries that went to [pause] with solid tyres that delivered the grain to, to the breweries which were quite near the depot. Yeah.
CB: And there’s still a brewery in the middle of the town.
MM: Yeah. Yes. Just on the —
CB: The Carlsberg one, yeah.
MM: The Carlsberg brewery now. There were two breweries there. Northampton Brewery Company and Phipps. Phipps Brewery. Yeah.
CB: So, you said that you volunteered in ’43. July. But they wouldn’t take you because you weren’t old enough. And you —
MM: No. ’42.
CB: ’42.
MM: I volunteered in ’42.
CB: ’42, yes.
MM: Yeah.
CB: I meant to say. Right. And you then joined in ’43.
MM: Yes.
CB: Where did you go?
MM: You couldn’t go for aircrew training until you were eighteen and a half.
CB: Right.
MM: I went on July the 5th 1943.
CB: Yeah.
MM: To ACRC. Aircrew Recruiting Centre at London.
CB: Yeah.
MM: Lord’s Cricket Ground.
CB: Yeah. How long were you there?
MM: I think probably about a month in London at Grosvenor Court. I spent some days in sick bay with vaccine fever after my smallpox inoculation. But then I, when I came out of there I had a rifle put in my hand and was one of the, to line the route for General Sikorski’s funeral at, who was the Polish, I think sort of Premier. Whatever he was.
CB: Army commander.
MM: Pardon?
CB: Army commander. Yes.
MM: Yes. And we all lined up which I, I nearly collapsed after my vaccine fever thing.
CB: Oh really. Yeah.
MM: Stood there with a rifle in my hand at the [pause] in London and waited for the cortege. The cortege to come by. And nearly collapsed.
CB: He’d been killed in an air crash in Gibraltar.
MM: That’s right. Yes. Yeah.
CB: So, from ACRC where did you go next?
MM: After that it was Scarborough. 17 ITW at Scarborough. I was based in the Adelphi Hotel which was two big houses on the front knocked together. And Scarborough was all, all RAF. All the hotels and everywhere in Scarborough were RAF there. They were sort of I suppose quite a few hundred RAF there in Scarborough at that time.
CB: So that was the 17 Initial Training Wing.
MM: Yes.
CB: What did you do when you were there?
MM: There we did, we used to drill on the front there. The corporal used to have us drilling there. And we did quite an intensive course. Law and administration, engines, basic rules of engines. Navigation. And sort of, it was quite, quite an intensive course really, you know. Every day we used to all go down to the classrooms and there were some lectures on, on different subjects there. Maths and navigation was the main thing but —
CB: Yeah.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Because everybody was air crew but this was the PNB selection.
MM: That was the PNB scheme.
CB: Yes.
MM: Yes.
CB: Ok. And a bit of drill.
MM: Pardon?
CB: And some drill.
MM: Drill. Yes. We used to drill along the front there. There was always some of the holidaymakers that were still there used to watch us drilling. Yeah. It was a beautiful, beautiful summer anyway in 1943.
CB: And how long were you there?
MM: Can we stop for a minute?
CB: Yeah. Just pause there.
[recording paused]
CB: So, from Scarborough.
MM: Right.
CB: Where did you go?
MM: Went to Brough. Brough near Hull.
CB: Yeah.
MM: For on the EFTS on Tiger Moths.
CB: Yeah.
MM: We were all aspiring pilots in those days.
CB: Yeah.
MM: And I, I did about five hours flying there which I thought I was doing very well and we, but when I had my solo check I didn’t do a particularly good landing and that was the end of my flying as a pilot. Which I think obviously we couldn’t all pass as pilots because an air crew’s, mind you there’s only one pilot, so they got to fail quite a number. I think in the early days most when they were short of fighter pilots they kept on until they passed as pilots. When they wanted pilots. But when I went there I think they’d got a surplus of pilots and they failed quite a number of us. And I finished up as a navigator.
CB: So what did they do with you next?
MM: Then we were [pause] they’d, I think they didn’t know where to send us all. I did one period down at Beaulieu in Hampshire, in the New Forest. I spent a bit of time in the ops room. There was a Coastal Command mainly, but there was also a Typhoon squadron up on there but I was in the ops room and then various other little jobs around there. I met, I met, one of the things I recall there is meeting a Liberator coming in with Air Marshall Cunningham. Air Chief Marshall. I think he was an air chief marshall probably, Cunningham coming in and Air Chief Marshall Sholto Douglas and a few other high ranking officers were waiting to greet him. And when Air Chief Marshall Cunningham got out of the Liberator he came straight up to me before anyone else. I’d still got my white flash on and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘There’s two corporals flew with me. Can you find them and give them some English money?’ And he gave me several pounds to give to them. He said, ‘I don’t think they’ve got any English money with them. Can you give it?’ And that was that [laughs]
CB: Your claim to fame.
MM: Yeah.
CB: So where did you go from there?
MM: And I think from there I went back to Scarborough for a little while at another, just messing about there. I don’t think we did very much there except we did a few, I remember cross country running and one thing or another for a few weeks just wasting time sort of thing. And then I went to Heaton Park, Manchester which was a holding unit before you went abroad. And I, I spent Christmas there at the end of 1943. And after that I, I think I went to Morecambe after that and before going to Canada. And I remember we went to Canada on the Queen Mary. We went one night to, to Scotland and boarded the Queen Mary there. We were taken out by DUKWs to the Queen Mary and went off during the night to Canada on the Queen Mary to New York.
CB: When you say DUKW these are the swimming lorries.
MM: Yeah.
CB: The DUKW.
MM: The, yeah.
CB: Yeah.
MM: Yes. That’s right. Yes. We, and then —
CB: So you went to New York.
MM: Went to New York. And then we went by train from New York to Toronto which was another big holding unit. And when we got to Toronto there was a scarlet fever epidemic there at this depot. This big exhibition place where we were billeted. And there were hundreds of us there. We were confined there for about, I think it was about five weeks and not allowed to, well weren’t supposed to leave the, the camp. The site there. The only break we, we, they used to march us along the shores of Lake Ontario every, every morning and, and then, then we went back to the, the depot. To the, where we were billeted. And while we were there they used to send film stars and well known people to keep us amused while we were there which would entertain us. There was, it was a big hall there. They used to come and entertain us all. Well known film stars used to come. And they used to put on wrestling matches and all sorts of things to amuse us. And after that I was sent to, as a navigator to Number 1 Central Navigation School at Rivers, Manitoba which is between Winnipeg and Regina. Half way between the two. And that was another, that was quite an intensive course there. From there I think I was there for about five months flying in Ansons and [pause] which we did, you know sports. You know football matches. It was very hot and we had football matches in between our studies but the studies were quite intensive and hard work for some of us who left school early. But about half the, half the course I was on there were ex-university boys and it probably wasn’t so hard for them. But I found it quite hard. But I ploughed through it and eventually graduated there.
CB: So you went, just going back a moment you were an AC2 in Britain.
MM: Yeah.
CB: When you got to Canada what did they do about your rank?
MM: Yeah. Well, as soon as you graduated you were either a pilot officer or a sergeant and I was a sergeant. You know, graduated as a, sort of half of the course were sergeants and half were pilot officers. And I say the, the course was the astro navigation was very hard and not very accurate I’m afraid. The [pause] and after the, after we graduated I, we went back. We, towards we were due to depart from Halifax, Nova Scotia but they asked some of us, it was going to be about four or five weeks wait there before we were sent, sent home and they asked some of us if we wanted to go apple picking. So, two of us volunteered. Well, more than that I suppose but two of us volunteered to go to one farm and we had a, we thought we were going to have quite a nice time there but we had to work hard. The farmers told us, ‘Oh no. We’ve got got to pay, pay wages for you to come here,’ So we used to put ladders up the trees and run up there, pick the apples and roll them down a hill. I think, put them in to barrels and roll them down a hill. But on our weekends off or something we used to hitchhike down to St John and we had all various little experiences going down there with different people we hitchhiked with. I can remember one hitcher, hitchhiking in a, in a car with a farmer. A farmer with a bottle of wine and I can remember that’s when the bonnets used to open both sides and as we were going along they used to open up and sort of like an aircraft you know. It used to, the bonnet used to come up each side as he was drinking his wine. Various. But yeah. That was good fun. Then we came back to [pause] eventually we were, we left from Halifax, Nova Scotia and went back to Liverpool. Then we continued with our training. We, we were at Harrogate for a time and, then I think from there we went to, to, I went to Llandwrog in North Wales on Ansons again on a, it was mainly sort of map reading and low flying course on Ansons. And after we completed that, that course we went to Moreton in the Marsh on Wellingtons. That was a Wellington OTU. Operational Training Unit.
CB: 21 OTU.
MM: Yes. And which was mainly Australians there and I think they wanted five more RAF aircrew to make up crews there and I was, I crewed. We were all sort of put in a room there and we made up crews. All got together and made up crews and I joined a crew of Australians there who, you know we all palled up you know very well together. And we spent some weeks there. That was quite an intensive course there again doing all sort of training in Gee navigation. Gee. And I got various other sort, types of navigation. One thing and another. And cross countrys. Cross country exercises. And then eventually we, we moved to 1654 Conversion Unit on to Lancasters at Wigsley.
CB: Near Lincoln.
MM: Lincoln. Near Lincoln, yes. And I, I can remember the first landing we made there after Wellingtons. We did, it wasn’t a very good landing. We came down with a bit of a bump but after that our pilot was, never did it, you know he was alright after that but the first landing wasn’t [laughs] wasn’t as it should have been. And shall we stop there?
CB: Did he have an instructor with him?
MM: We did the first time. Yes.
CB: For his bad landing.
MM: Yes. There would be, I think. For him. Yeah.
CB: Ok. We’ll stop there.
[recording paused]
CB: I’d just like to go back to Canada.
MM: Yes.
CB: When you were doing your navigation training.
MM: Yes.
CB: What was the most memorable thing about the landscape that you were flying over?
MM: Well, it was quite, quite [pause] it was mainly prairie, sort of thing around there. But there were various [pause] I suppose the change of winds was the main thing for, for navigators. You set off with one wind direction and then all of a sudden you found out the wind had changed which was quite confusing for, you know when we were in our training. As I recall it there were very often two of us. A second navigator and a first navigator and the, and one of them was doing map reading and the other was doing the plotting and that. But, but you know we had, it was quite difficult for them. For, you know some youngsters who were, you know flying for the first time. The, and a lot depended on the pilot we’d got. Whether he was very cooperative or not. They were all young chaps who had just graduated. Well, the pilots who didn’t want to be doing that job. They wanted to be sort of, they were hoping, a lot of them were hoping to go where the action was.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
MM: But, but —
CB: Because it’s a featureless landscape.
MM: Pardon? Yes.
CB: A featureless landscape.
MM: That’s right. Yes.
CB: So map reading must have been quite difficult.
MM: Yes. It was yes. But we had the turning points and that. And the timing and everything was, you know you’ve got to, all our plots and everything were marked afterwards so you’ve got to be, you know trying to do everything correctly and take the drift. You know, have drift sight and everything. You had to get the right drift on the, for the winds and everything.
CB: Yeah. So that’s an interesting point you said about the winds changing. So how did you go about establishing what the wind was doing? How does a drift sight work?
MM: Well, you get to know how much drift. You know, you’ve got your course and your track and you could tell how much, how many degrees of drift you’d got on it. It’s all quite complicated but we’d got the Dalton computer.
CB: Yeah.
MM: Which was our main little, no not a computer as you know it these days.
CB: No. No.
MM: But it was a mechanical sort of thing. No batteries or anything like that with it.
CB: A little, little aluminium box.
MM: Yeah.
CB: With a dial on it.
MM: Quite. Got all sorts of things on it, you know but there was quite a lot to, sort of a difference in height and you know temperatures and all sorts of different things. But yeah, I remember its quite, quite a lot to learn as young navigators.
CB: Yes. And of course it wasn’t all daylight.
MM: No, used to, at night that was, you know, when we’d do, did astro navigation. That was really difficult. You sort of got your head in the astrodome, you know, and sort of which, you know if the, if the, with the turbulence you’re knocking your head on the astrodome or something and you were trying to get the right star to identify, you know through the app. Through the sextant. And then when you got it there were all sorts of adjustments to make with the chart. With the sort of tables and things. I can’t remember much about it now but it, it was very there were so many different adjustments to make for, allowances for the, for the variations on the astrodome and all sorts of other things. As I say it’s all a bit vague to me now.
CB: Yes. Just to clarify that the astrodome is the transparent bubble on the top of the aircraft.
MM: That’s right. Yes.
CB: The sextant hangs from a pin in the middle of the astrodome does it?
MM: No.
CB: You just have to hold it.
MM: You do, you hold it. Yeah.
CB: Right.
MM: Hold it. Yes.
CB: Yeah. And you’re taking readings. Shot readings.
MM: Readings.
CB: Of stars.
MM: Yeah.
CB: At a timed point.
MM: Yes.
CB: And you then look at the tables.
MM: Yes.
CB: And you do a series of those to find out where you are.
MM: Yes. You can get, you know fixes you can identify one star.
CB: Yeah.
MM: And another one a different angle to, to fix your point but it took so long to do it and of course well it wasn’t so bad in, in Ansons but a fast aircraft, you know you’d be miles away before you could get the answer to —
CB: Yeah.
MM: You know, get your position. But it wasn’t a very, you were lucky if you could get within I’d say ten miles of where it should be I should think.
CB: By taking fixes.
MM: By, yeah.
CB: Yeah. Ok. Thank you. We’ll stop there.
[recording paused]
CB: You talked a moment ago about being at the OTU and crewing up with Australians.
MM: Yeah.
CB: How did that work and how did you get on with them?
MM: Well, I think, as I recall it they were all, we were all in a room together. I don’t know how many there’d be. Quite a, quite a lot of us in the same room. We all seemed to mix together and all of a sudden you, you sort of palled up with a little group and you know, you sort of blended in somehow.
CB: Who was the driving force in the selection? Would it be everybody had focussed on a pilot or how else might it have been carried out?
MM: I can’t really recall exactly how it happened but somehow I suppose it was. Yes, the pilot. Shepherdson his name was. A little, you know, not a very tall chap and we all sort of suddenly grouped together and as I say it was sort of pot luck somehow that we all blended in and we all got on very well after that. We, and then we, we eventually bought a car between us. I bought it in Northampton and we went, went back. Our little Ford 10. And we used to go about at Wigsley in this Ford 10, EHK 233 [laughs] Which I eventually acquired when the, when we, when the war ended I finished up with the car.
CB: So you’d go out in, all get in the car so — the crew is five isn’t it?
MM: Pardon?
CB: The crew is five.
MM: Six of us I think then.
CB: Six. Ok.
MM: And eventually I think there were seven when we acquired a flight engineer.
CB: Yeah.
MM: But —
CB: So it was an Australian crew. What was their Australian motivation for being in Britain to fight the war?
MM: Well, I think, you know [pause] I don’t know. I think that was, they were quite sort of loyal to Britain in those days and I’d say like all young men they, you know wanted to get in the, where there’s some action. You know. Yeah.
CB: Could you say a spirit of adventure?
MM: A spirit. Yes. It was really. Yeah.
CB: So when you got —
MM: You all, you all think at the time that nothing is going to happen to you.
CB: No.
MM: It’s, it might happen to the others but, but you, some, yeah.
CB: We’ll stop for a mo.
MM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: Just on the motivation of the Australians. What was — how strong was their sense of purpose would you say?
MM: I think it was very strong. Yes. I mean I was in a, in a nissen hut full of Australians. The only Englishman in this thirty six foot nissen hut and I, I think they were quite sort of loyal to England in those days. Yeah. But the best part of it was they all used to have parcels come over from Australia and they used to share them and I used to join in [laughs] with whatever was. I finished up with a nice little sheepskin sort of waistcoat thing, you know. Which they, you know someone gave me there but they shared all the parcels that came.
CB: How many crews in each nissen hut?
MM: I should think there’d be about four. Four. About four. Four or five crews I suppose.
CB: Right.
MM: In a nissen hut. Yeah. They were all, you know beds on each side of the hut.
CB: Yeah. So you then went to the HCU at Wigsley, and there you acquired a flight engineer. What was he?
MM: He was an Englishman. Yeah. But I can’t really remember much about him. I think [pause] I believe he was a pilot who was, as I say in those days there were a lot of surplus pilots around and I believe it was a pilot who was sort of acting as flight engineer.
CB: Yes, they did a bit of that.
MM: Yeah.
CB: They re-mustered.
MM: Yeah. But of course they’d still keep their wings on. That was, you know they never took the pilot’s wings off if they had graduated as a pilot but —
CB: Well, that’s interesting.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Because from the interviews some of them maintained their pilot’s brevet.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Some of them had to give that up and wear an engineer’s brevet. In other words the E.
MM: Did they?
CB: And if then re-mustered again as a pilot they could return —
MM: Yeah.
CB: To wearing the pilot’s brevet.
MM: Yeah. I don’t know anything about that, you know.
CB: How did he feel to being re-mustered to engineer?
MM: Well, I I don’t think they’d think, the pilot wouldn’t think much to that because the pay would be less for a flight engineer than a pilot. But I’m a bit vague on that so I [pause] Yeah.
CB: Just take a break there.
MM: Yes.
[recording paused]
MM: Yes.
CB: So it’s a bit difficult when you come in to an established crew.
MM: Yes.
CB: As an engineer. How did you actually fit in to the crew?
MM: Yes. I think he fitted in alright. Yes. But —
CB: He could take the Australian banter.
MM: Yes [laughs] Yes. We, yeah we all got on well together, our crew. The air gunner used to come on leave with me. I’ve got a picture of him somewhere at, outside that house there on the end.
CB: On the wall.
MM: Leaning on the car that we got. The Ford 10. And he was very very fond of my next door but one neighbour’s daughters [laughs] When he wrote to me afterwards he often sent his regards to them.
CB: Yeah. But did you keep in contact with him after the war?
MM: Not very much. They went back and were all demobbed pretty well straight away. When the, when the Japanese war finished they seemed to all get demobbed.
CB: Yes.
MM: And I didn’t keep up. They wrote to me a few times and I suppose mainly, you know I was still pretty busy over there, you know. We did all the airline work on Dakotas and I was pretty busy and mainly my fault. I wished afterwards I’d have kept up the correspondence but I lost touch with them altogether.
CB: Yeah. Well, easily done.
MM: They wrote. They wrote to me, you know. Kept writing. But I eventually lost touch with them all.
CB: Different motivation.
MM: Yeah. Well, you, you know I was pretty busy over there one way and another and —
CB: Ok.
MM: Yeah.
CB: But just going back if I may we were at the HCU. So at the HCU what was the main activity? So you’re on to Lancasters there.
MM: Yeah. Well, we did sort of various parachute drill and things like that and I think, I don’t know whether I’ve got any —
CB: You’d be flying a lot of cross countrys.
MM: Yes.
CB: As a navigator.
MM: Yes.
CB: You were kept pretty busy, were you?
MM: Yes.
CB: What date are we talking about for the HCU?
MM: Well, the dates [pause]
CB: Just checking the book. I’ll just stop it a mo.
[recording paused]
MM: 5th of May ’45. My first flight.
CB: At the HCU.
MM: At the HCU.
CB: So the Europe, the war in Europe had finished three weeks earlier.
MM: Yeah. What date did the war finished?
CB: 8th of May.
MM: 8th
CB: 1945.
MM: Oh, I remember. Oh I must have been before then because I remember when the war finished. You know, all the station was in uproar sort of thing and you know all, went on all night sort of thing. I think war was, end of the war was declared probably in the early hours or at night or something.
CB: Good excuse for a piss up.
MM: Everything was, everyone was there rejoicing on the station, sort of thing.
CB: Yeah.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Would you say that it was [pause] although there was the rejoicing that it was a bit of a mixed reaction on the basis that you hadn’t had the action.
MM: Well, there wasn’t that, you know. At the time you know all we wanted to get in to, to go on ops, of course.
CB: Of course you did.
MM: In retrospect we were glad we didn’t, you know. When you think about that afterwards you’re glad you didn’t go on ops. But at the time we, you know we were all hoping to go on ops. But —
CB: So here we’re talking about the latter days of training.
MM: Yeah.
CB: To what extent were the crews aware of the loss rates in the front line, in the squadrons?
MM: Well, I think they were very very aware of it all, yeah. Yeah. I mean we, you know most of us knew people who had got killed and one thing and another. You know. Yeah. Some of my, you know good friends that were killed early on. I was saying the chap I joined up he went to Cardington but he was killed quite early on.
CB: Yeah.
MM: And others as well. You know, a friend of mine that I knew.
CB: Your instructors would on balance have been people who had already done at least one tour.
MM: Yes, yeah.
CB: To what extent did they talk about the practicalities of being on ops?
MM: Yeah. Oh yeah.
CB: Did they talk about that with you?
MM: I suppose, you know if we asked they would but I mean I don’t think they volunteer to talk about it very much.
CB: Right.
MM: And afterwards of course I knew you know you, know when you’re demobbed and everything then years afterwards I knew a lot of them. They were on ops. I’ve got books, you know books written by them and that sort of thing and that I’ve met and knew.
CB: Yeah.
MM: But they’d talk about it but —
CB: After the HCU which squadron were you posted to and where was that?
MM: Well, I went out to [pause] We were sent out from, went out from Lyneham. Sent out as a crew, I mean, after. After HCU we went with the, with this, some of this crew here.
CB: The picture.
MM: That crew.
CB: That picture in there.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Five of you.
MM: Went to Leicester East.
CB: Oh yes.
MM: On Dakotas. And which we did another intentive course there on pannier dropping and glider towing and all that sort of thing. Then we went down to Ibsley near Bournemouth on a glider snatching. That was an interesting operation. You know, come down and snatch the gliders. Hadrian gliders down there and, you know I did some I sat in, sat in the gliders sometimes and waiting to be snatched up. You were all tensed up waiting to be snatched up. And they used to snatch us up [laughs] and anyway when you do go up, you know it was quite good fun, you know. That was —
CB: A huge acceleration.
MM: Pardon?
CB: Huge acceleration.
MM: Yeah.
CB: So the bomber —
MM: It was taken up a bit by a winch in the Dakota. There’s a winch there that takes up a bit of the slack but not very much. It still, you know all of a sudden you’re sort of doing eighty ninety miles an hour sort of thing. Yeah.
CB: So how does this work? The Dakota has a cable on a winch inside the fuselage.
MM: Yeah. A long —
CB: It lets it out.
MM: Yeah. There’s a long hook.
CB: A hook on the end.
MM: A hook. Yeah. Snatches. Yeah.
CB: And it snatches a rope that’s held between two posts is it? On the ground.
MM: Yeah. Yeah. And of course it’s got to come down pretty low, you know.
CB: Brilliant.
MM: You know, fair sort of aircraft the Dakota. You know that.
CB: Yeah. But the Dakota itself is going to be pulled back by the snatch so —
MM: Yeah.
CB: They’re —
MM: A little bit of the jolt is taken up by this winch. This long steel, you know. I don’t know how, how much you know say perhaps a couple of hundred or a hundred yards —
CB: Yeah.
MM: Perhaps of cable you know that, you know that takes up a bit of the slack but—
CB: And then it pulls it in. Winches it in does it?
MM: Winches it in. Yeah.
CB: Right. So how far does the glider fly behind the tug?
MM: Well, it wasn’t very far. I suppose perhaps — I’m not sure now. Twenty five yards perhaps behind, yeah. To do your release, yeah.
CB: Yeah. They’ve got to dodge the airstream of the tug.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: Cover this. One of your pilots was a man called Schuoua .S C H U O U A. What, what nationality was he?
MM: Well, he was sort of Argentinian but he’d been to England. He spoke perfect English. Better English than the lot of us. And his people were sort of in, in to textiles or something. He’d got plenty of money anyway because he, I remember he used to get short of money and wire home for another, another hundred pound or something. That was you know a fortune to us in those days. But oh, he was a great lad. He, of course he spoke Spanish was his native language but he said, ‘I’m Don Enesto Shuoua.’ [pause] But —
CB: Yeah. So he came out with you.
MM: Yes, he went and then had no sooner got out there then he was sort of demobbed.
CB: Was he?
MM: He was sent. Yeah. He came back home again.
CB: Went back to Argentina.
MM: Yeah.
CB: So when [pause] what we didn’t, we need to follow on from really is for, which we will do in a moment, is you went then to Lyneham as a crew.
MM: Yes.
CB: To go to, where did you go to?
MM: As, we went from there our first stop was Sardinia. We went on a cold miserable day in November and arrived in Sardinia on a beautiful hot day, where there was a, and where we spent the night there was a Italian aircraft which had crashed quite close to where we were billeted at. I can’t recall now just how far from us it was but that was that. And then we went by various routes to, well eventually we got to Karachi via [pause] I think it’s all down in the book.
CB: Yeah. Ok. But where did you go from Karachi? That was where, you were stationed there was it?
MM: Yeah. I was at, we were at Mauripur which was the outskirts of Karachi. I spent my twenty first birthday there. We were in a tent there. A small, small tent there. I spent my twenty first birthday with a bottle of whisky in a small tent there [laughs] And from Karachi went via Empire Flying Boat, the Caledonia, the name of it was to, to Calcutta. Spent a few days in Calcutta and then went from Calcutta to Chittagong by Dakota. We were picked up by Dakota and spent Christmas. Christmas Day we were in, in Chittagong. And went from, after that we spent a few days in, in Chittagong and then we went by Liberty ship. A Liberty ship. I think there were two crews of us then. We picked up another crew there. Two crews went by Liberty ship down to Rangoon. And there we were [pause] We went from Rangoon to 194 Squadron which was at Mingaladon Airport which was just outside Rangoon where we thought we’d be eagerly awaited but we were rudely awakened to the fact that no, they sort of didn’t. Didn’t care whether we were or not [laughs] sort of thing. We were given tents, implements to go and clear a bit, a bit of the jungle and put, put our big tents up there and make ourselves at home. Which we did. We cleared the jungle and, and cut down bamboo to put little, all around the tents to keep the snakes out. And put this like felt, they called it [unclear] or something on the, on the ground and we made it made our own beds there with bamboo. And oh, we, we you know quite enjoyed doing all this in the end.
CB: Built yourself a little village did you?
MM: Yeah, we, yes we were sort of all our all the tents were crowded around together sort of thing in the area and, you know officers and sergeants and everything were all mixed in together there really. But —
CB: What rank have you achieved by now?
MM: I was still a sergeant. I didn’t, however I eventually got a, got my crown and became a flight sergeant and then they stopped automatic promotions then, you see.
CB: Yeah.
MM: I was just, I think I was a month away from getting warrant officer but they stopped —
CB: Yeah.
MM: The automatic promotions.
CB: Meanwhile, what were you doing with 149 Squadron. Dakotas flying.
MM: 194.
CB: 194.
MM: Yeah. We were, we did all, we did all the airline work in the Far East. Well, really between, between Calcutta and well, we flew to Japan as, as well. All around that area. I didn’t actually go to Japan but some of the squadron did. You know, went to, when we eventually got to — we eventually finished up at Hong Kong. Finished at Hong Kong but then did quite a regular run to Japan. But I was mainly, mainly between. I was flying mainly between sort of Calcutta and Hong Kong and went down to, you know all the different places — Malaya and Singapore. And I went up to Shanghai once. All around that area. Our usual run was Calcutta, Rangoon, Mingaladon, Bangkok, Saigon and Hong Kong, but we used to do all various routes around there, you know. Kuala Lumpur and all different routes.
CB: Who were the people you were ferrying? Or was it largely freight?
MM: No. Mainly they had to have a good reason for flying. They were all sort of VIPs and I remember we had a, we’d got a general and all his staff we were taking from I don’t know where we started off from but when we were coming in to land at Hong Kong which was Kai Tak Airport, was a very dangerous airport. And it wasn’t the usual runway that we landed on. It was the one that was across. You could only land. You couldn’t overshoot or anything. There was hills the other side.
CB: Right.
MM: And we landed, landed there, we’d got crates of, apart from the general and his staff there were crates of rats we were carrying to the medical department for some reason or other. And we landed with a bit of a bump and one of, one the crates burst open and the rats got out. On the reception there was, waiting for his general at Kai Tak Airport there was a sort of reception committee waiting for this general and his staff and we were still trying to catch the rats and get them back in the crates.
CB: A bit of a delay then was there?
MM: Yes.
CB: But you got them all in the end.
MM: Yes. Yeah. But we had many many different experiences in, you know while we were doing different [pause] We, we had to. One of them was a belly landing in bad weather. We were going from Bangkok to Mingaladon, Rangoon. But we got caught in a, in a bad thunder storm and had to do an emergency landing. Belly landing in Burma, near Ye. The name of it Y E. We managed to sort of pick out a little, what was a little paddy field but unfortunately when we landed the mud, they used to put mud banks around this little paddy field to keep the water in the paddy field. It had all dried up and it was like hitting a brick wall. And we hit this brick wall and twisted the aircraft around and finished up tail first skidding across this little paddy field and got away with it with seventeen passengers on board. Which I’ve got pictures of. The various, some of—
CB: This was a wheels up landing.
MM: Yeah. And —
CB: The Dak wheels stick down slightly.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Don’t they?
MM: But, yeah. But it sort of ripped off an engine as we landed.
CB: Oh right.
MM: And you know, smashed the aircraft up a bit. But I was the only one who wasn’t strapped in. I’d got no, in the navigator’s seat there wasn’t a belt or anything. It was a, and I, but I sort of opened the door to tell, to shout to the passengers in there who were all strapped in to brace. I shouted out, ‘Brace,’ and slammed the door and then I tried to keep myself in the cabin but I was thrown around the cabin and I, funny how you, you know you hear about these things but you don’t believe it but all my life sort of flashed before me.
CB: Because you thought it was terminal. Yeah. Thinking of, as a navigator here we are in the Far East with huge expanses of sea and jungle were there beacons? How did you navigate in those areas?
MM: There was only, the only aid we had was the Eureka.
CB: Oh right. Yeah.
MM: Which I’d already done a course on, on Oxfords while I was at Leicester East. I had a few days course. I think it was about a week’s course on Oxfords. It’s in my logbook there so, but on Eureka which was a very easy thing. You knew what you but there were only two or three beacons in the Far East. There was one in Hong Kong and I think there was another one at, I think there was one at Saigon and one at Mingaladon I believe. But very few. They were about the only aid we had.
CB: So these are actually long range signals so —
MM: Yeah.
CB: How did you —
MM: A hundred miles.
CB: Oh, only a hundred miles.
MM: A hundred miles. When you got within —
CB: So how did it —
MM: A hundred miles you could home on to. You knew where you were and you could home on to the, on to the beacon. They were very useful.
CB: Could you just describe how Eureka worked? So there was a beacon at your destination but what are you doing to use it?
MM: Well it, a very simple thing as I recall it. It, you got a, on this instrument you could, it was [pause] just a line with and you could tell which side of the line you were on and —
CB: It was a cathode ray tube with a —.
MM: Pardon?
CB: A cathode ray tube.
MM: That sort of thing. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
MM: And you could, you could, you knew which side of the line you were on you could home, home right in on the beacon. Very easy to, to use.
CB: Because it showed you in a blip which side of the line you were.
MM: Yes. Yes. That’s right, yeah. Yes. It was a sort of, as I recall it, yeah it was like a long blip thing. The movement. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. A sort of a variation of the blind landing system.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Right. But apart from that because the distances were huge —
MM: Yeah. But it was all sort of dead reckoning, you know, just, but —
CB: Were there intermediate beacons of any kind?
MM: No. No. There was just these one or two out there and the only other thing you could, the only other aid besides all dead reckoning sort of thing was I think occasionally, very occasionally I used the sextant for a position line on the sun.
CB: Right.
MM: That’s when you could get a fix but you could get a position line onto the sun. But nothing else. It was [pause] but quite, you know quite often say from Hong Kong to Saigon that was all sea, you know. You got [high land] all on one side but but it was all sea ‘til you — well not, you could, no it wasn’t all sea but halfway sea anyway. Then and you got on to sort of Cambodia and that. What was Cambodia. That was all, you know when we were there it was French Indo China down Saigon. Yeah.
CB: But you tried to take a direct route rather than keep close to the land.
MM: Yeah. Yeah. I did that dozens of time down there you know but you were always glad when you got terrain. I think it was. You were always glad when you, you know you got to land sort of thing.
CB: Why did the squadron relocate to Hong Kong?
MM: Well, that was British of course. Hong Kong. At that time it was British and I think they thought that was the best place to be sort of thing. We thought so as well. It was very nice there [laughs]
CB: So, in Hong Kong what was the social life like?
MM: Very good. Yeah. That was good there.
CB: Did you meet any interesting people?
MM: In those, in those days I mean Hong Kong was British and the Chinese you know sort of, they got on well with the British and they you know respect us. We were sort of in charge sort of thing anyway. But I had various experiences there when we went to what they called the New Territories. Used to go swimming out there. Got on a, going on the main road along there and there was a lot of trouble there and the big, all arguing and doing a lot of [pause] people all around there. And as soon as I got there I was, you know I was only a sergeant or flight sergeant or something there and I managed to quell it all [laughs] but, you know it wouldn’t happen these days sort of thing.
CB: It was an argument between Hong Kong people was there?
MM: There was all the sort of, a lot of new territories people. They used to carry their wares into, into Hong Kong you know.
CB: From China.
MM: [unclear] bars and one thing and another and all their, you know stuff they had grown and all that sort of stuff to sell in Hong Kong. And I think it was arguing with other Chinese. I think there was some Chinese army there or something. I forget now. It’s all very vague. But, you know they had a, there was a bus there, I think. They’d held up the, held up this bus and they were all arguing and doing and —
CB: You managed to quell the riots.
MM: Yes [laughs]
CB: Yeah. And what sort of interesting people did you meet there?
MM: Well, one of the, when we were on one of our trips we got Compton Mackenzie. Sir Compton Mackenzie he eventually became wasn’t he? And we were taking him, we were supposed to be taking him from Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport. I think it was to Calcutta and there was, there was a Mandarin and people seeing him off. He’d been to, he was writing a book or something and he was there with his secretary and, and they were seeing him off there. He was amongst other passengers there. We used to have various interesting people that we used to take about but, but anyway we took off from, from there. We had an engine failure on, soon after we took off which wasn’t very nice [laughs] So, we had to fly around for a bit. Try and use up some of our petrol. Then we had to, we eventually landed again and went through the same procedure again the following day on a different aircraft. With a different aircraft. And when, and when we got down to Saigon we stopped at Saigon. We always used to stop the night at Saigon which we liked very much. We liked Saigon then. And we took off from there and I was talking to Compton Mackenzie and he said, I should, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘A pity we can’t see Angkor Watt.’ You know the, where everyone goes to see these days which wasn’t far from Saigon. I said, ‘Well, as long as you don’t put it in your book when you write your book about your travels in the Far East I think we can divert a little bit. It’s not far off our route and we’ll fly over it.’ So, we did that and he was pleased as punch. But he was the one who wrote, “Whisky Galore.” And all that, you know. They made a film of it.
CB: Yes.
MM: “Whisky Galore.” But he seemed an old man to us then but you know then I looked as though in the obituary in the paper and I realised he was only, I think he was in his late sixties in those days. Which of course was an old man in those days.
CB: These flights. How long were they?
MM: Well, we did so many different flights there. It’s all in my book there, you know. I mean from, from Rangoon to Bangkok was about, average about two and a half hours I suppose. Bangkok to Saigon was probably three hours. And a lot of them were say down to Singapore. We were going down to Singapore we used to stop at Saigon first and refuel and that would be another, you know down there was probably three hours. Four hours perhaps. Averaged at about sort of four hours I suppose.
CB: When you were out in the Far East you were stationed in Hong Kong as we were talking about just now.
MM: Yeah.
CB: At what stage did you know when your demob was coming up?
MM: Well, my number was fifty four. We all knew our numbers and they used to get demobbed by numbers sort of thing and you kept tabs of, you know when your number was coming up. But anyway I elected to stay on an extra three. I signed on for another three months because I got married there you see.
CB: Right.
MM: So —
CB: Tell us about meeting your wife.
MM: Well, we, we met in, on Hong Kong island. She was waiting for a tram to go, go to, I think it was a dance. And we got talking and it all developed from there over the months.
CB: What was Phyllis doing?
MM: Phyllis. Yeah.
CB: What was she doing in Hong Kong?
MM: Well, she was there during the war, you know. She was born there. That was her home. Her father was a British, you know. He was from Taunton. He was, worked for the, you know, British Colonial.
CB: Yeah. The Colonial Service.
MM: Service. Yeah. And —
CB: As a civil servant.
MM: Yeah. But you know he had died just before the war and her mother was, her mother was Peruvian actually. And, but you know it’s a long story but she was sort of hidden in a convent as a, as an Italian but, which at the time was on the opposition side anyway which, and of course it was occupied by the Japanese and — but they were, they were on the Japanese side at the beginning of the war of course. But —
CB: So when you met her she was on her way to work or what she was doing?
MM: No. I think then she was on her way to a dance hall. There used to be dances on in Hong Kong, you know. We might even have been going to the same dance. We used to go to a dance. I think it was, I don’t know whether it was the Yacht Club or something like that. And but [pause] that was all.
CB: So when were you married?
MM: March the 17th 1947.
CB: So, how long were you engaged for?
MM: Well, I suppose probably a couple of months or something. Something like that.
CB: And you deferred your —
MM: I deferred.
CB: Demobilisation, to do it.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Kept flying in that time did you?
MM: Pardon?
CB: Did you keep flying at the time?
MM: Kept flying. Yeah.
CB: So you were, when were you actually demobbed?
MM: That was, be sort of about August. August I think it was. 1947
CB: Right.
MM: Yeah.
CB: How did you feel about the end of your service?
MM: Well, for a time I was sort of kept thinking about going back in the Air Force. Didn’t know what to do quite. Yes. And you know it was all [pause] you know kept, you know, as I say I went as an agricultural student. I handed my notice. They kept my job open of course on the railway and they, they were very annoyed when I said I’m not coming back. They said, ‘Oh, we kept your job open,’ and all the rest of it. Didn’t they?
CB: Because you were going to college.
MM: Pardon?
CB: Because you were going to Agricultural College were you?
MM: Yeah. When I, when I told them I was going to they said, ‘We kept your job open and you should come back to us, you know. We want you to come back.’ And one thing or another but I said, ‘No. I’ve finished with clerical work.’ As I thought.
CB: [unclear] So you didn’t return to the railway.
MM: No.
CB: So, how did you, what did you do then?
MM: Well, I kept waiting for the course to start. And the unemployment people said, ‘Well, you’ve got to do something eventually,’ and for a few weeks I went in a stores for a firm here. Blackwood Hodge in Northampton. I was only there a few weeks then and then the course started and I went as a, you used to have to go to lectures. You know, agricultural. To somewhere in town. We used to have lectures on farming and that and then I had this. Went on this to this college in the not the well it was at Malton, Malton Park Farm.
CB: Yeah.
MM: It wasn’t a college. Malton Park Farm. It was St Andrew’s Hospital College. Farm I mean. Yeah.
CB: How long were you there?
MM: About seven months.
CB: And then what?
MM: Then I bought a small holding not far from here which is now all built on. I’d got about eighty fruit trees and I kept supplying half of Northampton with, with a lot of people had their hens in the back garden then. I used to sell, you know eight week old pullets and one thing and anther, you know. And one thing and another. Kept pigs. I don’t know. I used to go all around all the farms collecting the eggs and selling them to the shops and one thing or another. Fruit and so on. I’ll say, then I got a temporary job on the central in those days British Electricity Authority. Which eventually became Central Electricity Generating Board which lasted thirty years until they closed down two power stations. Did the administrative work for closing down Northampton Power Station.
CB: Did you?
MM: And Leicester Power Station.
CB: How did you get in to that?
MM: Then I elected not to move anywhere else and I, I finished up at British Timken which was just a stone’s throw away. I could walk there. Spent ten years there. My last ten years of working life there. Which I quite enjoyed.
CB: What did you do there then?
MM: Well, I was a, when I joined they said, ‘Well you wouldn’t want — ’ I was on the professional and executive list or something at Leicester. I wasn’t on the unemployment thing. And they didn’t send me any jobs to apply for or anything. And so eventually I got a job here just as there were strikes on in the engineering department and everything else. And they said, ‘Well, there’s only one job going. That’s a foreman’s clerk.’ I said, ‘Well, try me.’ You know. So I went and had an interview and got the job as a foreman’s clerk. Which was, you know just a little clerical job. I thought that would do me. I was already on a pension from the Electricity when I was fifty five so [laughs] and but then there was another job came up there as a [pause] as a clerical, and an engineering clerical worker or something. It was partly clerical and partly engineering. It was a technician sort of thing which developed eventually. I was called a technician there which I quite enjoyed you know. We tested in the, tested all the bearings from all over the world from the British Timken factories in America and Australia and Africa and everywhere else in the world. We’d test them. And I was there until I retired at sixty five.
CB: Didn’t you do well. Good. We’ll stop there.
[recording paused]
MM: Which wasn’t very nice.
CB: So the cunims are ahead of you.
MM: What?
CB: The cumulonimbus are ahead of you.
MM: Yeah.
CB: And are they, how big are they?
MM: They built up so quickly and we, we couldn’t get over them in those days.
CB: No.
MM: I mean we usually used to like to fly at five or six thousand feet or something like that.
CB: Oh, I see. Right.
MM: But sometimes you know you would try and get over them or you would see one, a bank of cloud and by the time you got to it they sort of rose so quickly. That was the trouble out there.
CB: Is this over the —
MM: There were more aircraft lost I think during the war and that with the weather than anything else.
CB: Oh, were they?
MM: And accidents and that.
CB: And are the cunims on the edge of the land or are they in the middle of the ocean?
MM: Well, they were all over. All over that area, you know. It’s the heat and everything. In the mornings that’s all we liked to take our early start and but they built up so quickly with the heat and you know they was so much weather. You know, rain and one thing and another they built up so quickly. We used to try and get an early start.
CB: On your planes you had IFF did you, effectively so that or some kind of beacon so people could keep an eye on you.
MM: No. Not as far as I know. No.
CB: I mean if you went down.
MM: No. I don’t know.
CB: Or if the plane went down how would they find you?
MM: No. No. As far as I know there was no, nothing [pause] I mean the wireless operators, you know they’d, you know if, if you’d got a chance the wireless operator would you give the rough position, you know, lat and long and sort of thing. Latitude and longitude and where. That was what we did when we came down in Burma. I was very proud of that. Latitude and longitude was dead on. So [laughs]
CB: What was the crew comprised of? Two pilots.
MM: Well, there was the pilot and, and the air steward was very often another pilot. He was acting steward because there was such a surplus of pilots and one of our air stewards was a pilot. [Bernardus] a big tall handsome bloke he was. Only a young chap and I’ve got a picture of him somewhere and he was one of our air stewards. But, but another one was, I had several different air stewards at different times. There was the wireless operator and navigator. So, you know there were usually four of us.
CB: What was the air steward’s job? Keeping you watered?
MM: Well, he was, you know he was taking sandwiches and looking after the passengers. You know.
CB: How many could you take at a time? Passengers.
MM: Well, capacity was twenty six. Sometimes there weren’t twenty six but that was the most we could take.
CB: They’d have luggage with them.
MM: Yeah. Not much but you know very often it was just sort of hand luggage and but, I mean one when we came down in you know our belly landing they could all carry their luggage. I think afterwards. It’s funny, until I knew this was going to take place I was looking for things to [pause] I know, and what not and I [pause] Ah, what’s this now. This was another [laughs] another thing I found. One of our things we had to do on one of our courses was ship recognition. We used, that was —
CB: Right. So, this is, this is —
MM: Had to a recognise ships you know.
CB: Yes
Other: Not easy
CB: Of all nationalities those. That’s got different —
MM: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: British. American.
MM: Yeah.
CB: Japanese.
MM: But —
CB: Those, they are warships.
MM: I was looking for, looking for maps. I say my son and his wife were just going to Canada and these are some of my actual maps that went around Rivers.
CB: Are they really?
MM: You know.
CB: Yeah.
MM: He’s going quite close and I was finding these. And I found my name on them somewhere but some of the routes we took but —
CB: What would you say was the most memorable thing for you in the war?
MM: I suppose one of the most memorable things was when we did our belly landing.
CB: After the war. Yes.
MM: After the war. Yeah. That was after the war but —
CB: But in the war itself was there something that stood out? Particularly memorable.
MM: Well, all through the war you know before I joined up even we used to keep in touch by, you know on the radio. We were always eager with what was happening everywhere. You know. Surprising that as you can’t imagine you know as a fourteen, fifteen, sixteen year old. Nowadays you can’t. But in those days we sort of knew everything that was happening you know in the Middle East or you know. It was always on the on the radio. All the different, you know what had happened everywhere. And we all used to talk about it and, you know keep in touch.
CB: And when you knew about your brother dying in —
MM: My —
CB: Who was it? A relative? A relative of yours.
MM: My son.
CB: Oh, I beg your pardon. In the war.
MM: That was my —
CB: No. No. In the war.
MM: During the war.
CB: Yeah.
MM: No. He was one of our, a chap I joined up with.
CB: Oh the chap you joined up with.
MM: Yes. Yes.
CB: Your friend.
MM: Yes.
CB: Yes. How did you feel about that? How did you feel about that?
MM: Well, you know. Just one of those things that you know we obviously, we you know thought what a shame it was, you know and all that.
CB: Yeah.
MM: But he was one of various friends of ours you know. Now, another boy I was quite friendly with near, I grew up with. You know. Geoff Boyson his name was. He was he was an air gunner. He was killed quite early on in the, you know in the war soon after he joined up. And several others. But you know it was just one of those wartime things you know. You, nothing you could do about it but you were you know very sorry about it all but —
CB: So the four of you who joined together as far as them and their families were concerned how did you keep in touch with what went on with them?
MM: Well, the, one of them, one of the four he, he didn’t. He finished up as, on a, on a navigator’s course but he didn’t pass. And, you know I saw him afterwards and everything but I don’t know what he was doing. What he did really after that. But he didn’t continue as air crew anyway. And the other one who I was [pause] he became a navigator and I was best man at his wedding and everything but he, he didn’t do much. He passed as a navigator but after that I don’t really know what he did. He didn’t do any more flying. But a lot, a lot of them that when the war finished they finished up as they made them in charge of transport or all sorts of different things. I’ve got a, sort of various books there written by one of them. One of them was, “Avenging in the Dark.” it’s called. I don’t know where it is now. He did two tours. He, he died after you know a few years ago now but he’s exactly a year older than me. He did a tour. A tour on Stirlings and a tour on American B17s.
CB: Oh, did he?
MM: Which not many people knew that the RAF used B17s.
CB: For a short time, yes.
MM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: You talked about the different backgrounds of the people you were being trained with.
MM: Yeah.
CB: How well did the different backgrounds gel or did they tend to be —
MM: Well, you know we all mixed together. I mean my, probably my best friend there was ex-university but we never talked about it. I don’t know what he did at university or anything but, but we all got on well together but I know he didn’t get a commission and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘My people will be so disappointed. They’re expecting me to get a — ’ Most of the university boys got a commission you see. But —
CB: But he didn’t.
MM: He didn’t. No.
CB: What, what did, he would end up as what?
MM: Well, he was sergeant.
CB: Yeah.
MM: Same as me, you know. And then of course we all went to I don’t know what happened to him but as I say people made friends with them and then all posted to different places.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Maurice William Marriott
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMarriottMW170824, PMarriottMW1701
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:47:18 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Interested in aircraft through the Air Training Corps, Maurice joined the Royal Air Force in 1942 and went to Cardington. In July 1943 he went to the Air Crew Reception Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground, followed by 17 Initial Training Wing in Scarborough. Elementary Flying Training School on Tiger Moths in Brough saw him become a navigator rather than a pilot. He was in the operations room at Beaulieu and describes an encounter with Air Marshal Coningham. Maurice was sent to Heaton Park and Morecambe before sailing to Canada and 1 Navigation School at Rivers, Manitoba. He discusses the difficult wind changes and how a Dalton computer was used to work out drift. He recounts the difficulties of astro navigation at night. Maurice flew on Ansons before returning to Britain.
RAF Harrogate and RAF Llandwrog on Ansons, were followed by Wellingtons at an Operational Training Unit at RAF Moreton in the Marsh. Maurice crewed up with Australians and trained on Gee navigation. He eventually moved to the 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Wigsley on Lancasters. The war finished before going on operations.
Maurice went to Leicester East on C-47 where he did a course on pannier dropping and glider towing (Hadrian gliders). He went from Lyneham to Karchi, stopping off in Sardinia. Maurice was stationed at Mauripur. He travelled to Calcutta and Chittagong, then Rangoon and 194 Squadron at Mingaladon airport. They did airline work in the Far East, ferrying VIPs, including Compton Mackenzie. Navigation was with Eureka and dead reckoning. He finished at Hong Kong where Maurice married. Demobilisation was in August 1947.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Burma
Canada
China
Great Britain
India
Burma--Rangoon
China--Hong Kong
England--Northampton
England--Scarborough
India--Kolkata
England--Northamptonshire
England--Yorkshire
Canada
Manitoba
Manitoba--Rivers
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1945
110 Squadron
1654 HCU
21 OTU
aircrew
Anson
C-47
crewing up
forced landing
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
navigator
Operational Training Unit
RAF Harrogate
RAF Leicester East
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Wigsley
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/921/11529/APescottSM171018.1.mp3
42ca6713ac5e82b8b008ab682176172e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lawson, Homer
Harold Lawson
H Lawson
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. An oral history interview with Susanne Pescott about her father, Flight Lieutenant Harold Lawson DFC (b. 1921, 1544881, 177469 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs and album. He flew operations as a navigator with 10 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susanne Pescott and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lawson, HA
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
SP: This is Susanne Pescott of International Bomber Command Centre, talking today about my own father, Flight Lieutenant Harold Homer Lawson DFC. Today is the 18th of October 2017. My father, Harold Arthur Lawson was born 24th of August 1921 in Salford, Manchester. His parents were Arthur and Emilia Lawson and Arthur was a piano teacher. He also had two brothers, Arthur and Stanley. He went to Gresham Street School and was an altar boy at the Church of Ascension in Salford. After school, he went to Grammar School and worked for Acme Welders as an engineer before he signed up in 1941. He was aged twenty and he signed up at the recruitment centre in Padgate. I’ve actually got the letter that was sent from the Air Ministry, I think it’s really interesting that in this letter dated 22nd of September 1941, in the end paragraph it says, in wishing you success in the service of your choice, I would like to add this, the honour of the Royal Air Force is in your hands, our country’s safety and the final overthrow of the powers of evil now arrayed against us depend upon you and your comrades. You will be given the best aircraft and armament that the factories of America and Britain can produce, equip yourself with knowledge and how to use them. I can’t imagine what a twenty-year-old, his reaction would be to that, but I should imagine it’s quite daunting to have all that pressure suddenly seen. So, he started his training around the end of 1941 and he was trained to be a navigator and the training was at Scarborough, many crews were based at hotels in around Scarborough at this time, the Grand Hotel, which is still there today, was where a lot of the exams were carried out, not sure the exact hotel my father stayed at, but it would’ve been around that area. His nickname, as I said in the entry, was Harold Homer Lawson, he was nicknamed Homer and that links in to his role as navigator, as he was always seen as bringing the crew home. After his initial training, he moved to number 9 AFU in January 1943 to start training on Ansons and this was at Llandwrog in North Wales, which is now Caernarfon Airport. I think he did well to survive the initial training there as there were very high losses during this time on the Ansons due to its close proximity to the Snowdonian mountains. After there, he moved up to Scotland to 19 OTU which was Forres in Kinloss and here he met up with his Canadian pilot who was Johnny Hewitt who actually ended up being a lifelong friend as they kept in contact after the war as well. While he was here, they practiced lots of things, like cross country training, fight affiliation, high- and low-level bombing missions and foundation flying and formation flying and on here he was on both Ansons and Whitleys. In 1943 they were moved to a conversion unit, it was number 1663 and this was based at RAF Rufforth in Yorkshire and Yorkshire was where he was going to remain to carry out all his operations. Here he met his magnificent Halifax bombers, this is the plane he would complete all his operational tours on. And finally, in November ’43 he was posted to 10 Squadron and this was at RAF Melbourne in Yorkshire. 10 Squadron known as Shiny Ten, and completed quite a huge number of operations from there. His crew whom he met and crewed up with were Johnny, who I mentioned, Johnny Hewitt, he was Canadian, he was the pilot, my dad was the navigator, the bomb aimer was Erwin Bayne, known as Paddy, and he was from Ireland and, F Wheaton, I don’t know his first name, was the wireless op, Sam Smith was the mid upper gunner, and known as Titch to the crew, S Leonard, again I don’t know his first name, was the flight engineer, and M Grey, another Canadian, was the tail gunner and he was nicknamed Blondie. So, it was a bit of a baptism of fire for the very first ops, I can only imagine how the crew felt when they were told it was going to be Berlin, so the 29th of December they at 5.10 set off and that is 1943 to complete the first operation and it is part of the Battle for Berlin. So during this operation, they encountered and shot down a Junkers 88 and then returned to Melbourne 7 hours and twenty minutes later and found that the tail plane had a lot of flak holes in it. This was really to set the tone really for most of their tour of ops as they had several more encounters with German planes and shot down a further two during the thirty-eight ops. So, after the initial baptism of fire, it went a little quite during January and February but again started to get busy in March with several night operations over France, the crew also started to do a lot of minelaying operations, a very different role and quite a challenge for navigators because there weren’t any landmarks and talking to many navigators that have done from around that time, they tended to pick out the navigators who were good because of getting the exact location, so really proud that he was picked out for that. Moved on into April ’44, lots of missions over both Germany and France and that included missions to Essen and Dusseldorf and both of those missions, they were actually caught in searchlights and following an electrical storm on another trip to Karlsruhe they had to land at the emergency airfield at Manston as the engine cut out as they were flying over the east coast. In May the crew were attacked by a fighter over Mantes-Gassicourt so quite a lot of interaction with enemy fighters. But the busiest month [unclear] was June 1944. A lot of mining to start with when, throughout the Hague and then on D-Day, my dad and his crew took off at 2.55am to part, take part on the gun batteries at Mont Fleury, these were overlooking Gold Beach, and this was in preparation for the D-Day landings, his logbooks actually says, the second front started on that actual article. So talking to another veteran, Ken Beard, who was from 10 Squadron, and he set off from Melbourne only three minutes before my dad, so he’s seen exactly the same things, and he said, they weren’t told any details, other than to ensure that they didn’t drop their bombs early, and when they got over the Channel they could see exactly why and that’s because there were hundreds of ships sailing across the Channel at that time. It didn’t stop there on D-Day, they had another operation later that day, and they took off at 22.30 and flew to Saint-Lo where the Germans were based, they had to fly very low at two thousand feet. The rest of the month kept busy, very high activity with a lot more minelaying and started to get some day as well as night operations as well. On the 15th of June, on a trip to [unclear], the plane was once again in combat with the enemy, another Junkers 88, they managed to set his port engine on fire, but the plane cylinder head broke on the return journey making the starboard outer US as it says in my dad’s logbook. It’s worth noting here that the plane they were flying on at this time was a Halifax III, it was known as the Ol’ Ram, it had a fantastic nose art painted on it, which was a picture of a ram smashing three swastikas and painted by one of the groundcrew whilst it was at 10 Squadron. So, the plane was seen as lucky cause it was ZAJ with J for Johnny as the pilot, so they were quite pleased to get that on the majority of their operations. On another raid, on a daylight ops to Noyales on Chausseur, the starboard engine again had problems on the way down in but they carried on on their mission and feathered on return to make it home. You would have thought that might have been enough activity in June but then again, 28th of June, on ops to Blainville the crew had actually three combats on that trip and destroyed one Messerschmitt 210, the logbook actually reads, it hit the deck three minutes after the starboard wing was set on fire, so, a very eventful June which continued into July, at the beginning of July doing three trips over to the V bomb bases at Saint-Martin-L’Hortier, two of these night raids and one day, flak particularly heavy around this installation, the Ol’ Ram, the plane came back from one trip with flak holes in the port tail. I think it must have been quite difficult going on the, on these V bomb trips to Saint-Martin-L’Hortier on one of the flights I know that it’s reported that one plane dropped its bombs on another Halifax squadron and it actually crashed and killed all the crew and on another trip one of 10 Squadron’s own planes was actually shot down, so I can’t imagine having seen that on one trip, the courage they would have to have to go back day after day to the same destination is a very special sort of courage. The Ol’ Ram was hit more by flak on trips to the various railyards and then on the 20th of July the very last ops for the crew was a trip to Blowtrop and here they had a petrol leak on the port inner and the port was US again referred to in my dad’s logbook and the ammo tracks caught fire so a very eventful last trip. So, the crew completed thirty-eight operations and my father, I am very proud to say, was awarded the DFC in November 1944, I’ve got the original press article and that reads, it was given for gallantry and devotion to duty in air operations and actually refers to throughout an exact, throughout an exacting tour of duty, this officer has displayed exceptional ability as a navigator, and cool courage in the face of the enemy, on four occasions his aircraft has been engaged by enemy fighters and in the ensuing air combat three hostile aircraft have been destroyed. So, after they’d finished their operations at Melbourne, they went back to Forres, did more training and flying, this time on Wellingtons, and then ended up back in Yorkshire, at RAF Rufforth at a Conversion Unit. In May ’45 my dad was moved to 77 Squadron and at this point they were based at Full Sutton and he had a new pilot, Flight Officer Pickin and they were on Halifax VIs and then started training on Dakotas and this was ready for preparation to fly them to the Far East to support the Burma campaign. Lots of practice of supply dropping and glider towing and this was done at Broadwell and they finally set off on the 22nd of September 1945 on route to India. The route took them via Libya, Sedam and Yemen into India and then took them from the 22nd of September until they finally arrived at their destination on the 1st of October. October ’45 shows that the main trips they did were around India and the Khyber Pass and supply dropping and bringing troops back. I have a copy of a letter that my dad sent to his pilot, Johnny Hewitt, when he got the, the information that he was going to be sent over to helping the Burma campaign, so I’ll read a little bit out of this, so it just says, I left Rufforth and was posted here, 77 Squadron, ex Elvington, remember the time we all went to Elvington, and that will refer to a time when 10 Squadron had to pick up some planes for an operation and borrowed the ones from 77 Squadron and he also says that he was here on V E Day, didn’t even get one op from here where we are now on transport and I am converting to Dakotas in a couple of months. Talks about training and constantly lectures with the Far East and Burma and tropical diseases and learning about different forms of navigation again on the stars. It says as well to help with being able to navigate by the stars, they’ve wired off the Gee and H2S so that they can only use the stars to navigate. One of the comments he’s put in his letter, says, well, it looks very much that I shall end my life in Burma or some place, you can imagine me under a mosquito net, scratching elephant bites and sweating horse feathers beneath some tropical sun. So, I don’t think he was particularly looking forward to that tour. The logbook continues with lots of daily activities but then on the 22nd of November 1945, the logbook just stops, no idea why cause not like my father [unclear] to leave things unfinished but he has, I know he returned home and was demobbed in late ’46 but no more detail at all. After the war, I know he was taken back by his old employers and worked in engineering all his life, becoming a chief estimate with a company called Acro that then became known as Thomas Store. 1950s he met my mom, Maureen Chilton at Belle Vue Dances which is in Manchester. My father was strict Church of England and my mom came from a Roman Catholic family so you can imagine that wasn’t an easy ride, both sides of the families refused to accept the relationship, so on New Year’s Eve in 1955, my mom slipped out, carrying her wedding shoes and they got married at Manchester Registry Office with one friend and getting a member of public off the street to sign there as witness. And mom and dad went on to become great ballroom dancers winning many medals, so they early started at Belle Vue Dances [unclear] through the rest of their dancing years. Unfortunately on the 12th of September 1975, my dad died very early of a heart attack and he never actually spoken of his war years and the remarkable feats of bravery that he’d shown and really wish we could turn the clock back and hear those stories direct from him and actually you know, let him know how proud I was of him and what he did. I think in a way this is why I’m so privileged to be an oral interviewer for Bomber Command’s Digital Archive, I can hear these stories it makes me realise the sort of activities my dad would’ve been involved in but also to keep them for future generations and let them have the opportunity of listening to a family member recount those stories that I never heard. My research into my dad started about three years ago when I was looking into family history after about a year of research and talked to my brother he asked, would the logbook help? [laughs] Well, clearly that opened up a whole new avenue and it helped immensely. Unfortunately none of his crew was still alive by the time I was researching but I did manage to track down the daughter of his pilot in Canada, Johnny Hewitt, my mom had pulled out some old photos and there was a letter in there from Johnny from 1975 and it had arrived with my mom just after my father had died so really just being put to one side and it was saying that Johnny’s daughter, Pam, and a friend were going to be coming to Europe on a trip of a lifetime and could they met up with my dad and stay with them whilst they were over here. I don’t think the letter was ever replied to unfortunately because of the timing, so I started to look into the letter and try to find a phone number and but I couldn’t, I saw an address so I wrote to this address, didn’t get any information back after a couple of months, so I decided to phone all the J Hewitts I could find around Ontario [clears throat] just to see if I could find, if Johnny was still around, the pilot but again no joy. Think I must’ve been searching a few months each night and just looking on the internet, doing little searches with different names and I finally came across an article in a small Canadian paper, the Aurelian Times, it was talking about a Johnny Hewitt in the cross hall of fame and it had a little quote from his daughter saying that she hadn’t realised how important he was to the cross or how good he was because he didn’t shout about those things that he did, just like he didn’t shout about his time in World War Two and then I see that the daughter is called Pam, and I think, could this be the link that I was looking for? So, I emailed the editor of the paper and asked him to pass my details on to Pam, a week went by and then one night suddenly an email popped through, just saying, I am the Pam you are looking for, still gives me goose bumps now talking about it, but that started up a great correspondence with Pam. I sent her a copy of the letter her father had written, she’d never seen any of his letters so it was quiet precious to her and she let me know that she actually did come across and do the tour of Europe and she actually stayed with my grandparents, my dad’s father and mother who a lot of the crew went to stay with when they were up in Manchester anyway so they were all well known to them and Pam did a little bit searching and to my surprise she found three letters that my dad had sent in 1945 and 1946 and gave a real insight into his life and the sort of things that they were doing during the war. I think one of the things that quite surprised me from it was almost desperation from my father wanting to do another tour with Johnny and the rest of crew and said he got the crew together and could they all do another tour together, and the thing that just clearly showed the bond that they had and how difficult that must have been breaking up after all they’d been through and you know, despite the risks, they would still want to get together just so that they could keep that, you know, comrade and friendship going and on that. So I think whilst nothing can replace talking to my father about his time in the war, the letters, you know, filled such a void there and also talking to the veterans from 10 Squadron where I’m a member of the association and they can really bring it to life with several of the veterans being also on the same trips that my dad did. So, I hope that one day, you know, maybe I’ll come across a recording of his crew and until then I’ll keep my search continuing, so I’m hoping that people will find this of interest and useful and that maybe one of the relatives of my dad’s crew and the crew of the Halifax III ZAJ the Ol’ Ram will be able to find out a little bit more about their families, thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Susanne Pescott
Creator
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Susanne Pescott
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-10-18
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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APescottSM171018
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:22:23 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Second generation
Description
An account of the resource
Susanne Pescott talks about her father, Flight Lieutenant Harold Arthur Lawson DFC, who worked as an engineer before joining the RAF in 1941, where he served as a navigator. After completing his training, he was posted to RAF Rufforth and from there to RAF Melbourne on 10 Squadron, with which he flew 38 operations. His first operation was to Berlin on the 29th of December 1943 where they shot down a Junkers 88, for which he was awarded a DFC in November 1944. Among his various operations, particular relevance is given to the ones in June 1944, when they targeted a gun battery in Northern France in preparation of the D-Day landings and shot down two enemy aircraft. At the time, he was flying on a Halifax III, known as the Ol’ Ram for its particular nose art. In May 1945 he was posted to 77 Squadron at RAF Full Sutton, where he trained on Dakotas in preparation to fly to the Far East. In October 1945 he was then posted to India to drop supplies and bring back troops. She recounts her efforts made to find her father’s pilot, Johnny Hewitt, and getting in touch with his daughter.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
India
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Berlin
France--Ver-Sur-Mer
France--Neufchâtel-en-Bray
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1943-12-29
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
1945-10
10 Squadron
1663 HCU
19 OTU
77 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
C-47
Distinguished Flying Cross
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
mine laying
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
nose art
Operational Training Unit
RAF Full Sutton
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Melbourne
RAF Rufforth
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1168/11734/ATruemanKW150921.1.mp3
edf12796de7e798fe79b59731bc9cbd0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Trueman, Kenneth William
K W Trueman
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Kenneth Trueman (b. 1922, 1217929, 1455835 Royal Air Force). He flew operatoinsa as a navigator with 640 Squadron until his aircraft MZ855, was shot down near the village of Laloux in Belgium after an Operation to Russleheim 13 August 1944. The Pilot Flying Officer Dennis Barr and the rear gunner Sergeant Basil Orrick were killed and the gunner Sergeant Alfred Broddle was taken prisoner. The other four members of the crew, including Ken, escaped and were given shelter by the resistance until they were smuggled out and back to the UK in February 1945.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Trueman, KW
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: Right. I’m sitting in Solihull talking with Ken Trueman about his experiences in the war and my name is Chris Brockbank. And we’re going to talk about all aspects of his experiences including when he was shot down more than once and what happened as a result of that. So, Ken if you’d like to start with your earliest life and how life progressed, please?
KT: Well, I had just an elementary school education. I was one of the first that they accepted for aircrew who didn’t have further education. And I went down to Bedford and got my number and everything like that and then waited for them to call me up.
CB: So you were born in Birmingham.
KT: Yeah.
CB: So you went to an elementary school there.
KT: Yes. I went to —
CB: And what age did you leave school?
KT: Fourteen.
CB: And then what did you do?
KT: I was a carpenter. Trained as a carpenter until I was eighteen. I need not have gone into the forces because I was in a reserved occupation. And my foreman said, ‘Well, you can’t go unless I sack you.’ And so that was the only time I’ve ever had the sack. And he sacked me and then I was able to go and volunteer. Which I did at Dale End in Birmingham. And then some weeks later I was called to Bedford. And I got first taste of service life which unfortunately was, it was snowing like mad. They got us up at 5 o’clock. We had to shave in cold water with a little blue light. And then we waited three quarters of an hour in the snow to get in the dining room. And when I got in the dining room the cup and the knife, fork and spoon I had to open my hand to get. And we all sat there in our overcoats and steaming. Steam coming up it was. That was my first, service life if you like. But then they sent me home on indefinite leave and I was, as I say I was there until the, ‘til the end of 1941 when I was called up to London and I had six weeks with a rifle.
CB: What else did you do other than with the rifle?
KT: Oh, it was, it was mainly getting our inject, medicals, vaccinations. We [laughs] we were in the flats at the [unclear] Court, but we had our food at the London Zoo [laughs] And then we, of course we were kitted out then as well. And then from there we were posted to Torquay. And that took three months. And on my first leave I got married.
CB: This is 1941.
KT: No. That’s 1942.
CB: ’42. Okay.
KT: Yeah. I got married in June, the 6th 1942 and I did my first operation on June the 6th 1944. And that was D-Day.
CB: Okay. So after you’d finished at Torquay where did you go? What happened then?
KT: Pardon?
CB: What happened after Torquay?
KT: Well, then as I say I went to Desford for this twelve hour selection board. Twelve hours flying Tiger Moths. And from there we, we went to Heaton Park and we were under canvas for eleven weeks. And from there we went to South Africa on a ten knot convoy that took five weeks from leaving Liverpool to arriving at Durban. And so we went right north first of all. We must have been near land because land birds was landing on the deck. And then we came down around the Cape to Durban. And that’s where I started the advanced navigation course. I don’t know how long that took but I then moved up, just up the road to Collondale to do the, start the flying in Ansons.
CB: Just taking you back you said you had only basic education.
KT: Mmmn.
CB: While you were being, working as a carpenter what did you do as far as your education was concerned?
KT: In what way?
CB: Well, did you go to night school or what did you do?
KT: No. No. But the RAF did pay for a course in maths and English while I, after I’d got my number. And that was the only —
CB: In the Birmingham Technical College was it?
KT: No. No. My, one of my teachers at my school did it for two of us. Two of us. And the other lad unfortunately failed miserably his, they, I mean you have tests all the time and he failed and they made him a flight engineer which was a very short course, you know. And he was killed on one of his first or second raids he was on. And I was still, I was still training.
CB: So, when you finished the maths and English that coincided with your actual call up but then you’d already been graded had you? PNB. Pilot, navigator, bomber.
KT: No.
CB: Is that how you —
KT: No. You were a pilot under training. Pilot UT.
CB: Yeah.
KT: Until you had the selection course.
CB: Okay.
KT: It was at the end of the selection course when you were told whether you were going to be a pilot or a navigator.
CB: Okay.
KT: And had I not failed the night vision test I would have been a pilot. But as it happened I was very grateful for it.
CB: Why?
KT: Pardon?
CB: Why?
KT: Well, if you think about a pilot in a bomber. He takes off. And immediately he comes under the control of the navigator. All the way to the target. Unless of course they’re, they’re fired upon with a fighter when the gunners take over and direct the pilot. Then when they enter the target the bomb aimer takes over and he guides the pilot. As soon as the bombs have dropped it comes back to the navigator. So, all the pilot is, is a taxi driver [laughs] And I’m lucky because I’ve got something to do. We had to fix a new course every six minutes. And I could do it in four minutes so I had two minutes every, I had two minutes rest every six minutes.
CB: How did you do the fixes?
KT: With a Gee box. Have you heard of it?
CB: I know it. I’ve used it. Yeah.
KT: And we also had H2S.
CB: So, H2S was a radar. So did you use that all the trip or was it only used intermittently?
KT: Oh, only used as and when. So long as you had got Gee I, I didn’t want H2S. Gee box was my, my game. But of course it was, it was jammed as soon as you got to the French coast.
CB: And H2S. Why did you not want to use that?
KT: In my mind it was, I think, something. I don’t know. I did use it but I liked the Gee box better and of course as I, I said they jammed. As soon as you got to the French coast it was jammed. But half an hour before you got to the target you took out a, I don’t know what you’d call it. Something. Take it out, put a new one in and you got Gee then for ten minutes. And so you can imagine having Gee box for ten minutes, the fixes you got. And that put you right for the target then.
CB: Is that because that particular one was using a different frequency? That’s why you put the —
KT: I don’t know. The boffin boys —
CB: Right.
KT: All I know is I took this thing out, put this new one in and I got Gee then for ten minutes.
CB: Then what?
KT: It took Jerry ten minutes to —
CB: Right. For him to jam it.
KT: Yeah.
CB: Right.
KT: And then of course on the way back I just gave him a course for home and just checked up every fifteen minutes rather than every six minutes.
CB: So, that’s leapt ahead to action but you’re, we’re still perhaps back in South Africa. How did the training go? Who were the instructors?
KT: Oh, there was RAF and South African. People that had been on ops and they were instructors. And of course they were bored to tears. They wanted to get back on ops.
CB: Did they?
KT: Yeah. But I’ll tell you a funny story. When you finished your training in South Africa. Got my wing, you know. Half wing.
CB: Yeah.
KT: And you were sent to a place called Retreat in Cape Town. Well, it’s not in Cape Town. There’s a train that runs from Cape Town to Simon’s Town.
CB: Yeah.
KT: Simon’s Town is where the South African fleet is. So, you’ve got this train that runs and halfway is Retreat. And the RAF had got a rest and recuperation and you were there for a week. And then I was posted to India. And after a week we were marched to the docks and immediately marched off again. And we said, you know, ‘What’s going on?’ And they said, ‘We’ve got too many. You’ll go next week.’ And the next week we were marched on to the docks and marched off again. And the next week we were marched on to them, marched off again. And the next week we were marched on. Four times we were marched on to the docks and marched off again. But the fifth week there was, there was only fifty of us so we said, ‘Oh, we will be going this time.’ And sure enough we sailed on Friday the 13th on the Athlone Castle. Now, I, I, service life suited me down to the ground. And if you’re on a, if you’re on a British troop ship if you take your mug to the galley any time of day or night, they’ll fill it full of tea. And so at 6 o’clock on Friday the 13th I took my mug, got my tea, went and sat on the stern and It was a lovely day. And smoked a cigarette. One of the crew came along and we started chatting and during the conversation I said, ‘Oh, by the way when do we get to Bombay?’ And he said, ‘We’re not going to Bombay.’ So, I said, ‘Well, we’re posted to Bombay.’ He said, ‘Well, this boat’s not going to Bombay. It’s going to New York.’ So, I put down my cup and rushed, nearly got myself court martialled, into the CO‘s bedroom and woke him up. And he was a Colonel Blimp, you know, ‘What’s going on? What’s going on?’ I said, ‘Excuse me, sir.’ I said, ‘Do you know where we’re going?’ And he said, ‘Of course. We’re going to Bombay.’ I said, ‘I’ve just had a word with a member of the crew and he assures me we’re going to New York.’ ‘Get out. Get out,’ he said, ‘Get my clothes. Get out.’ So I got out quickly. I mean, I didn’t realise what I’d done. Rushing into the CO‘s bedroom and waking him up. But anyway two hours later he called us all to the Blue Room which had become the sergeant’s mess and he said there’d been a mistake made. We are in fact going to New York. So, that was my first cruise. Two weeks. He said, now, even in those days, that would be 1943 the ships had fridges, you know. And he said, ‘The fridges are full of chicken, beef, lamb, pork. The chefs are going to go mad and we’ve got some West African Rifles who have agreed to be your servants if you pay them.’ So there we were. Sergeants, being waited on for two weeks.
Other: Lovely.
CB: Was the ship largely empty, was it?
KT: No. No. It was, there was fifty of us. There was, I don’t know how many West African Rifles. Somebody must have known something. They were going back home on leave so why put them on that boat? And there was quite a few American. But we had to pay for it because at night, when you were in the bunk you could crack the bugs. And we were bitten all over, you know. Because the boat was going to be deloused.
CB: Was going to be but hadn’t been.
KT: That’s right.
Other: [unclear]
KT: It was going to New York to be de-loused.
CB: Oh I see. Oh right. What a nightmare. I’m going to stop you there just for a moment.
[recording paused]
CB: Right. Okay. So we’re recording again having had a previous break.
KT: Okay.
CB: But we’ve got as far as the Athlone Castle going to New York.
KT: When we arrived at America they just didn’t know what to do with us. And so they, we didn’t land in New York. We had to get over the side, down a rope ladder onto a lighter boat and they took us up the East River to Fort Slocum. Which was an American base on an island in the East River. And we were there for three weeks.
CB: What did you do there?
KT: Well, we got our pass at 10 o’clock in the morning and we used to get on the train. It was twenty five miles into New York and it took twenty five minutes. In those days. And then we had, we were then allowed out ‘til 23:59 the following day. So, we then got, as soon as we got to New York we found a hotel and we spent the rest of the day in New York. Two days in New York.
CB: Okay. So after that then what?
KT: Well, then we came back on the Louis Pasteur. The French boat. To Southampton. And I was posted to Llandwrog for advanced flying training.
CB: This is in North Wales.
KT: Yeah. And the weather was so bad we did the same run eight times. From chicken [unclear] to Fishguard to Pembroke. All over the sea because the weather was so bad.
CB: What aeroplane were you flying in then?
KT: Ansons.
CB: Right.
KT: Ansons. Yeah. From Llandwrog then we went to Lossiemouth and we had, we were there December, January and February. Very cold but lovely.
CB: This was the OTU?
KT: The OTU. Yeah. Yes.
CB: So how did you, when you got to the OTU what happened as soon as you arrived?
KT: Well, after we’d been there a few days we were all let out into the ballroom or whatever you call it and we just wandered around. And I saw a fellow coming up and I said, ‘I’m looking for a pilot,’ and he said, ‘I’m looking for a navigator.’ And that was the nucleus of our crew. And then the next day we — oh no, the same afternoon, there were two of us wandering about then. We saw a wireless operator and said, ‘We’re looking for a wireless operator,’ and he said, ‘Well, I’ve got a friend who’s a bomb aimer. He’s an Australian.’ So then we got a wireless operator and a bomb aimer. So there was four of us then. And then we, we found two of the smallest gunners I’ve ever seen. They only looked like little boys. But they were Canadian and they agreed to be our gunners. So, there was our six. But after a couple of flights they came to us and said would we mind if they left us? And they went to an all, all Canadian crew. So we said okay. And we had to wait a couple of days for two gunners to arrive and they became our gunners. Alf Broddle and Lefty. That’s it, he was Basil but we called him Lefty Orrick. Unfortunately he was one of them that got killed in the [pause] But I only escaped, you said something about escaping three times. I think what — you were talking to David were you?
CB: Well, can I come back to that? Because, absolutely. Yes.
KT: Only, I think what he means we were ambushed three times by Germans while I was on the run. I only, but of course we had a narrow escape. I think we’re over running the tale. A week before [drink being poured] Thank you. A week before I was shot down we, we went to bomb Caen. Now, our troops were held up at Caen and they wanted us to bomb the German lines which was only seven eighths of a mile from our own line so accuracy was the — so instead of the Pathfinders dropping flares our artillery fired coloured shells where they wanted us to drop the bombs. Now, these coloured shells didn’t last as long as our flares did. So they said, ‘If you’re going up on the run in and the lights go out, go through the target, don’t drop your bombs and come back but keep your bombs because we’re getting short of them.’ So, what we had to do because, because as we went up the lights went down. So we went through. Then we had to fly up north to get rid of the petrol because we couldn’t land with a full bomb load on. The all up weight was too much. And the petrol. So you had to get rid of the petrol and you couldn’t go over the sea and jettison the petrol out of a Halifax. You had to use it up. So we flew up to Scotland and back again. And we landed at Boscombe Down which was an experimental and it had a manual flare instead of an electric flare path. And the pilot was told to undershoot the landing tee. They put a coloured landing tee to show you where to come in. And so he undershot it [laughs] But too much really because I was getting up from my position to get into the rest position and I looked through the window just in time to see a telegraph pole which we took with us. Then we hit the railway van and then we took the telegraph pole on the other side. We just crashed then. And the plane of course was written off. It was. The fuselage was broken in three places. The four engines were torn out. The bombs had scattered everywhere. Two had become alive [laughs] and, and the next morning they found an American Grumman Martlet about a hundred yards away that had done exactly the same thing. And so that was a week before we, you know. A week or ten days. I’m not sure. I’m not quite sure. But that was Molescroft Maggie. That was our favourite plane. We did nineteen trips in Molescroft Maggie. And we called it Molescroft Maggie because she was M for Mother and our dispersal at Lossiemouth was very close to the village of Molescroft, so she became Molescroft Maggie.
CB: It’s interesting how these things arise isn’t it? So, come back to that. So, we’ve done the OTU.
KT: Yeah.
CB: And you changed crew during the HCU.
KT: Changed.
CB: OTU. The two gunners.
KT: Oh yes.
CB: That’s why you were —
KT: They only did two cross-country’s with us.
CB: Right. Okay.
KT: And then we had the new two.
CB: Okay. So when are we talking about then? What, what was the date of that? Near enough.
KT: It was nineteen [pause] it was, it was December. December ’43. January ’44 and February ’44.
CB: Okay. Then you go to Marston Moor.
KT: Marston Moor.
CB: For the HCU. So, you went straight there did you?
KT: Yes.
CB: Starting in March ’44.
KT: In between we did a commando course for three weeks at Driffield but I can’t remember whether it was before or after —
CB: Okay.
KT: Marston Moor. And at Marston Moor then we picked up our seventh crew member.
CB: Yeah. The engineer.
KT: Yeah.
CB: Why did you do a commando course?
KT: That was in the scheme of things. They did these sort of things. Well, it was [laughs] the idea was you did this commando course and at the end of it they put you in a bus and took you fifty miles away and dropped you off and you’ve got to make your own way back.
CB: Escape and evasion.
KT: That’s right.
CB: Yeah.
KT: And some of the things that [laughs] they’d pinch bicycles. They pinched cars. They pinched horses. But I had a brilliant idea because they dropped us on a pub car park. So we went into the pub. And every everybody, oh you know, ‘Have a drink.’ And I said, ‘Well, I noticed on the main road there’s a transport café. Anybody going down there?’ And a man said, ‘Yeah. I’m going down there in about five minutes.’ And so, let me see there was, our crew had been split up into two. I’d got, I don’t know, I’d got, I’d got two or three of the crew with me. And so we got in his car and we drove down to the main road and went into this transport café. And I asked about. ‘Anybody going near Driffield.’ And one of the lorry drivers said yes. Yeah. So we got in and we had a lift back. And I said, ‘Now look,’ I said, ‘You mustn’t stop outside the gate. Drive a bit further on and we’ll get out.’ So we got out and then we went to the back of the camp. Climbed over the fence, slept in our own beds. Got up the next morning, came back, walked in as if we’d [laughs]. But that’s the idea you see.
CB: Nobody sussed it.
KT: Pardon?
CB: Nobody sussed what you were doing.
KT: Oh No. No. No. No. So, that’s how we got back.
CB: So HCU.
KT: Pardon?
CB: So you get to the HCU. You got to the HCU and picked up the navigator err the engineer I mean to say because you’re the navigator.
KT: At Marston Moor.
CB: At Marston Moor. Yes.
KT: And then we transferred to —
CB: So at the HCU what did you do most of the time?
KT: Oh, we went on cross-country’s. You did so many day cross-country’s and so many night cross-country’s. And the pilot of course, he was under the instruction of the pilot he was taking over from and was transferring from two engines to four engines. For me it was just straightforward because although we were, they were a bit faster, I still, I still, my navigation was just the same.
CB: Did you have Gee already?
KT: Oh yeah.
CB: When you were at the OCU.
KT: Yes.
CB: OTU.
KT: Yes. Gee all the time.
CB: Yeah. Okay. And what about fighter affiliation? Did you do much of that?
KT: Oh, no. We did that at Lossiemouth.
CB: Right. Once you got to the, oh you did that. Right. Okay.
KT: Yeah. We were —
CB: When you were at the OTU.
KT: Yes. At Lossiemouth. When we came back. We always dropped an eleven pound smoke bomb and we were attacked by fighters. And you know the method?
CB: So, what was the method of the fighter affiliation experience?
KT: Well, I don’t, I wondered if you knew what it was.
CB: I don’t know, I don’t know how it worked.
KT: It was the corkscrew.
CB: Right. So, I know the corkscrew but would you describe it?
KT: Well, the, one of the gunners would say, ‘Corkscrew starboard go,’ and the pilot would then start and you see if you could, if he could see a fighter and start to corkscrew he couldn’t shoot you down. So that was why the gunner’s had, obviously had to keep their eyes open. But we were one of the first to be shot down by the German fighter that had a gun pointing up.
CB: The schräge musik.
KT: Pardon?
CB: The schräge musik. Yeah. The upward firing cannon.
KT: Yeah. We must have been one of the first.
CB: Where did, where did the, where did it hit you?
KT: Oh, the first shell cut a hole inside of the aircraft. No problems. The second shell went through the starboard outer. The starboard outer engine and set it on fire. And then there was a lull of a few, oh about a minute I would think. It was a long time. And the fourth shell took away the bomb, bomb bay I would think. But the fourth, the fourth shell went through one of the petrol tanks and then it was shhhh. One minute it was dark and the next minute it was just like daylight. And the pilot must have put the automatic pilot in which was somehow got, it wasn’t flying straight and level. It was flying in a circle. So, we all came down more or less in the same place.
CB: How do you know? How did you know that it was a schräge musik operation? Did you see the other fighter?
KT: No. No. I was under the impression. When I got back to England we were debriefed and the intelligence officer said, ‘You were shot down by light anti-aircraft on the railway that was directed by your H2S.’ And that was another thing I didn’t like the H2S for [laughs] But it seemed, it’s quite obvious that when we, when we worked it out it was, it was a night fighter.
CB: And did they talk about Scarecrow?
KT: Scarecrow. No.
CB: Are you familiar with the scarecrow? That was the way of describing, explaining how this was working. A high powered shell explosion.
KT: [unclear]
CB: They perhaps didn’t start using it at that stage.
KT: Oh we never had any —
CB: No. Because it wasn’t. It was because of the schräge music but —
KT: No. We never had that. We never had any training on parachutes.
CB: Oh right.
KT: We were just given a parachute. Told how to clip it on. Jump out, count to three, pull.
CB: Right.
KT: That was it.
CB: Okay. So, just going a bit earlier than that. When you joined the squadron what happened then? So, you got a new aeroplane?
KT: Oh well, yes. Now. Now. We then started [laughs] we got, we got, you’d got to do three cross-country day and three cross-country night and on one of the cross-country’s it was up in Scotland and they routed you very close to Scapa Flow who then started firing at you. Far enough away but giving you some idea of what anti-aircraft flak was like. And the night one was at Portsmouth. They did exactly the same thing. And, mind you we’d only done, let me see, I’d done, I think we’d got four. Four of each to do and we’d done about two of each when the pilot and I were walking across the base one day and we heard, ‘Pilots and navigators to the briefing room.’ That is the start of a raid. And then it said, ‘Sergeant Trueman and Sergeant Barr to the briefing room.’ So we thought well that’s funny, you know. So off we toddled to the briefing and there was an officer outside. And I said something like. ‘Ah’, he said, ‘You’re going tonight.’ I said, ‘But we’ve still got, we’ve still got some cross-country’s to do.’ ‘Ahh no,’ he said, ‘It’s an easy one tonight,’ he said, ‘So everybody’s going.’ And so when we saw the target it was at a place called Maisy. And it was right on the French coast. Just by Cherbourg. In fact, we were over enemy territory for six minutes. Just across the Cherbourg Peninsula. And the intelligence officer, in the briefing said, ‘There is one anti-aircraft gun in the area. That’s all.’ And that anti-aircraft put a shell right underneath us but not close enough to hit us. But the noise. And you’ve heard of people having cold feet. My feet were like two blocks of ice. And I said, ‘That’s me finished. I’m not coming again, I’ve had enough,’ [laughs] Anyway, I sat down and had a cup of tea and we started to come back up and we looked out there at all the little boats coming across. We could see them in the — when we got back to base we said, ‘The invasion’s on isn’t it?’ They didn’t know at the base that it was on. That’s how good the —
CB: Security.
KT: But then it was — we did five. Five trips in, in seven days. We went on the 5th and the 6th, 6th and the 7th, 9th and the 10th, 12th and 13th. So, from the 5th to the 14th we did five trips.
CB: Is this day time flying or night?
KT: Oh no. No. We did, we did twelve daylights. Thirteen night flights. Of course a lot of these are buzz bomb sites. Which I think you could really say were quite an easy because I mean you weren’t over the enemy territory for very long. They were just in Northern France you see. You know the buzz bombs.
CB: Absolutely. The V-1s. Yes.
KT: Yeah.
CB: So what success did you have in hitting those because it was quite a small target?
KT: Well, I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know, I. All I did, all my job was to get them there and then the bomb aimer took over and he had to have a photograph. So, we always got the target. So long as you’d got a target to photograph you were okay. But actually what damage? The only one I know was, well two I know. They sent us, they sent just our squadron, 90, after a viaduct. Why they wanted to blow it. You know, a lovely viaduct. And what happened? It was a daylight and quite low and when, you couldn’t see where it had been after nineteen bombs had hit it. But the other one was a daylight raid. Villiers Bocage. Now there they were, the intelligence thought Rommel was there but they knew that the 12th Panzer division were in amongst the houses. So, they sent sixteen err six hundred bombers in daylight. Fairly low. About two to three thousand feet and we were luckily one of the first ones. We dropped our bombs, turned around and there we saw all these bombers coming, not towards us but to go because they took us up. And after, after three hundred had bombed the master bomber said, ‘Don’t drop any more bombs. There’s nothing left.’
CB: No.
KT: They never saw the 12th Panzer Division. So it must have been successful.
CB: Yeah. Fascinating.
KT: But the fourth raid we went on was, I mean I’m talking of seventy odd years ago and it’s still [pause] It was a place called Amiens. And we were coned by searchlights. Three. Three planes were coned. And my pilot he was marvellous. The second the lights came on he put the nose of the plane down and full power and dived down from sixteen thousand feet. Just dived out of the sky. And we were too fast. Too fast for them. They couldn’t get the lights down quick enough. And I thought, I thought when he pulls out of this the wings are going to fall off but they didn’t. But there we were then two thousand feet. It should have been sixteen thousand feet and we’ve got to come around then in to bomb. And all the bombs coming down. But anyway, we, we got our target indicator and that was that.
CB: So you thanked your lucky stars you hadn’t been hit by the people above.
KT: Well, yes. Quite a few people did. That happened to quite a few people.
CB: Did it?
KT: Yeah.
CB: Now, when you — two points. I’ll come back to initial briefing. But when you landed, the debriefing. What was the process then?
KT: When I landed?
CB: You’d done the raid. You’d done the raid. You’ve landed. You’re collected by the crew bus and go to the intelligence man.
KT: Yeah.
CB: To debrief you. How did that go?
KT: Well, you got out of the plane. Your bus came along and picked you up, took you into the briefing room and you sat around the table with one of the intelligence officers and you more or less went through the flight with him. Pointing out where heavy flak was. Which I had recorded. And any anything, anything that was a bit out of the ordinary was down in my log. And then you left there and went into the dining room and had bacon and egg.
CB: A great thing. Did the, because you’re the navigator you have to log the incidents. Did the other crew pass you incidents?
KT: Oh yes.
CB: To log.
KT: Yes.
CB: How did they do that?
KT: Intercom.
CB: Right. No. No. But how? Did they introduce it by just saying we’ve just done —
KT: Well, no. They, they’d just say it. The rear gunner would say there’s heavy flak on the starboard side. And I would note where we were and put it down.
CB: Right.
KT: They could always check back through my log. Just about where —
CB: Okay.
KT: With the time you see.
CB: Right. So fast backwards now. You said earlier that you and the pilot had been called for a briefing.
KT: Ah. Yes.
CB: So could you talk us through please.
KT: Yes.
CB: The briefing process and who and who wasn’t involved.
KT: Well, yes. Well, that is the pilot and the rear gunner. We go into the briefing room and there’s a big board and it said this is the target for tonight. And the intelligence officer will give you any information that they’d got. Where there’s heavy flak or where you are likely to get night fighters. Or you’re going over a mountain. Anything like that. Then you’d leave there. The pilot goes to his section. I go to my section. And then we’d go through and make a log of the raid. And then —
CB: That’s your plan for the raid is it?
KT: No. No.
CB: When you say the log for the raid —
KT: No. We made a route for the raid.
CB: Yeah.
KT: Oh no. We do two more after that.
CB: Yeah. Okay. Keep going.
KT: And you don’t tell the other crew. Only the pilot and the rear gunner the navigator.
CB: The navigator.
KT: Know.
CB: Yeah.
KT: Until about, just before we go into the main briefing. And then it’s, they know then. And then you come out of there and you go and have bacon and egg. You come out at the end. You go into the parachute section. Pick up your parachute. And that’s when my stomach used to go down in to my boots. Always, when, when I got into the bus to go out to the plane and then when you got out to the plane there was always an hour before you took off. And then the ground staff used to take, take your money off you because we used to play pitch and toss and they were better at it then we were. [laughs] You know pitch and toss, do you? Well, they put a ring and then so many yards and you’d toss a penny. And the one whose penny is near the middle of the ring has the first throw. All the heads it takes out until there was nothing left. And then you do it all over again. But they were much better at it than us. And then half an hour before we took off I used to get into the plane and the wireless operator used to give me the latest winds and I used to then work out the main log. You see a bomber doesn’t take off and go up like that. A bomber, fully loaded climbs very, very slowly and so he’s attacked by all the wind. So what you do, you take an average of all the winds at the various sites and you set a course using that wind. And then as soon as you take off after six minutes you take a fix and you find out whether you’re on course or off course. And you keep doing that.
CB: Okay. Just to clarify there. You’re talking there about different winds. So, what sort of levels would you expect there to be different winds at.
KT: Oh —
CB: Because the ground level wind is always different.
KT: It depends on what, it depends on whether it’s a high pressure system or a low pressure or how bad the storm is. Or whatever. It’s always different. And of course if they’ve got the winds wrong [laughs] Of course we had to get our winds on a plane flying out recording the wind velocity. It’s nothing like it is now.
CB: Okay. So could you describe how you measured the wind velocity? How did you do that?
KT: Well, it’s speed and direction. You know, the intelligence would give you the winds coming from the north. It was degrees. It wouldn’t say just north. It would be in degrees.
CB: So you’d be steering. You’d be steering a particular course on the basis of the briefing and then you would take an assessment.
KT: Well, yeah.
CB: As to where you had actually got to. Is that —
KT: If they said the wind is coming from this direction. So, you’d use that, but after a bit you’d find that instead of being blown over there you were over there so the wind read was coming from this way. It was easy when you know what you’re doing.
CB: Sure. okay. So you take off and it takes a long time to go up.
KT: Oh yes.
CB: You’re not going straight out to the North Sea are you? So what are you doing?
KT: Well, no. We, they used to bring us all together over Reading. And the people of Reading got fed up with it. Night after night, all these bombers coming together and then — but it depended where the, just where the target was.
CB: What speed were you cruising at?
KT: Oh, we cruised about, about a hundred and sixty.
CB: So, when your pilot put the nose down on the incident you were talking about. How fast do you think —
KT: Oh, I haven’t got the foggiest.
CB: Do you think you were going?
KT: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know. It was just, it only lasted a few minutes. I mean I didn’t check what speed we were doing. I was just waiting for the wings to fall off. Yeah.
CB: So, can we just go back now to what you mentioned earlier. Your, you were shot down on which raid? The twenty-fifth?
KT: Yes.
CB: Right. So what happened there?
KT: Pardon?
CB: What happened?
KT: Well,—
CB: Which part of the run were you? Before dropping?
KT: Pardon?
CB: Before the dropping of the bombs or afterwards?
KT: Oh no. We’d dropped the bombs.
CB: Right.
KT: It was uncanny because we were hardly off course at all. I mean you were always off course. You always had to correct. Correct. But we just sailed through. Dropped our bombs sixteen thousand feet.
CB: Excuse me. Where was the target?
KT: Oh, the target was at Rüsselsheim. It was the Opel Motor Works.
CB: Right.
KT: They were making the V-2 rocket there.
CB: Right.
KT: We did our two minutes off the target, two minutes to port and then a course for home. And I don’t know how long it was afterwards but they brought us down from sixteen thousand feet to six thousand feet in a fairly sharp dive to fool the night fighters. And we, as I say, we just, we’d just more or less levelled out when we were hit by the first two shells. And I mean although they were, I mean if we’d have been hit by the flak, the anti-aircraft we wouldn’t have been here now. But they were smaller shells and that’s why I think it was the fighter. Not the —
CB: Not anti-aircraft fire.
KT: No.
CB: Flak.
KT: But the noise. There was no end of explosions. It was unbelievable. And I didn’t hear the order to bale out. I was busy working out where we were. And the first out, I realised. I mean, I knew it was just like daylight and the plane was on fire. I mean, it was quite obvious we were going to have to bale out. But I didn’t hear the order to bale out. The first thing I knew was a tap on my shoulder. The bomb aimer was giving me my parachute which I put on. I sat on the escape hatch. He took the escape hatch out and dropped it. I don’t know who got that out. He jumped out and then I jumped out afterwards.
CB: Where was the escape hatch on the Halifax?
KT: Right at the, [pause] you know the wings.
CB: Near the nose or in the middle? Near the nose or in the middle?
KT: No. It was towards the nose. But there were two. There was the door and then of course the rear gunner could either swivel his turret around and back out or come out in to the fuselage. I don’t know. All I know is that I had all the luck in the world. When I jumped out I could see a series of, and don’t forget it only took a few seconds. Well, not very long to get down from six thousand feet. And I saw a ring of fires. Little bonfires and I wondered what was going on. I knew I was drifting. I knew I was going backwards but I hadn’t any idea how to turn myself around. And I thought, well when my feet hit the ground the next thing that was going to hit the ground was my head. But I needn’t have worried because my feet touched the ground and then my parachute caught up a tree and I eventually finished up my head was about a foot off the ground and as I lay there with, I hadn’t got a breath. A man came along and he said, ‘Camarade.’ And I looked up at him and I said, ‘I’m English.’ ‘Angleterre,’ he said. He picked me up and kissed me on both cheeks. And I had fallen into the field where they were expecting supplies.
CB: SOE.
KT: Couldn’t have been more luckier than that could you?
CB: Right. So then what?
KT: Well, then it was a question of walking from one house to another and we just walked for hours. It was 1 o’clock in the morning when I got down. At 5 o’clock I’d been to about three houses because they’d already got one of my crew there. I finished up in the loft of a cottage that was all, you know boarded out and very comfortable and I just laid down and went to sleep. And they woke me up. That was 5 o’clock and they woke me up at 8 o’clock and took me downstairs. And they gave me a bowl of water with about that much water in it to have a wash with. And then they gave me my breakfast which consisted of a piece of bacon without any lean on at all. Just. And an egg that had been put in the pan and taken out. That was my breakfast. Then, then the fun began. The baker came to see me. The vicar came to see me. The policeman came to see me. The postman came to see me. All sorts of people came to see me and every time they came I had to have a little, like a thimble full of white. And I didn’t drink in those days. But oh no, you can. And by 12 o’clock I could hardly stand up.
CB: This was Advocaat was it?
KT: Pardon?
CB: This was Advocaat?
KT: No. It was —
Other: White wine was it?
KT: Pardon?
Other: Was it white wine?
KT: No. It was white spirit.
Other: Oh.
KT: No. It was, I don’t know what it was but oh. Then they took me outside and that was even worse then when the sun came up. But they took me across the garden. Oh. The door suddenly burst open. Three men came in. I thought this is the Gestapo, you know. But it turned out they were the Maquis and they said, ‘Come on,’ with the guns. Outside we went. Had to go down the garden. Down a path to the end of a country lane where there was a lorry and in the lorry were two of my crew. All the rest were Maquis people and they were the recognised army then. They’d got their uniforms on. It was a band with the colours on. And we drove through the streets of Ciney. And it was a tipper lorry really so I could look over the side. And there were the German officers walking up the road with their girlfriends on their arm. I thought this is amazing. And these men were, got their guns and they didn’t take, they didn’t [laughs] Anyway, we got to our first camp which was a group of gypsies had formed a Maquis group and strangely enough they’d captured the German station master. And he walked about freely. He didn’t want to be, he was quite happy to be with them. He was a civilian mind you so, but he’d been captured and as I say he was quite happy to. Oh dear. We had a party then. Everybody had to sing. Then they found us a little tent with some straw and the four of us, the three of us went to sleep in there. And at 2 o’clock in the morning they woke us up and they took us then to our, the camp that was going to be the group. The Chief, who we knew as Chief Tom had been educated at Winchester College so he spoke perfect English. And his brother-in-law was a, they used to come over to Scotland shooting the deer prior to the war starting. So there were — that’s how we started then. And we used to cut down telegraph poles. Anything to upset the Germans. But not to kill any because if we killed any they took it out on the villagers and the villagers fed us. So, we had to be — because we were in the woods you see. The Ardennes. You know the Ardennes?
CB: Absolutely. Yes.
KT: So —
CB: So when you were there then — how long were you with them?
KT: Well, I’d got. We [pause] let me see. First of all we went out we went out on a raid to blow up a train and unfortunately — see they weren’t trained at all. They had no, they were all young lads and men that had had formed this Maquis group because they didn’t want to be sent to Germany for working, you know. So there was no discipline. And the man in charge, we’d all gone in to the signal box I think it was. The stupidest thing. And we then saw seven Germans coming along so we got out of the signal box and it was in there that the lines were down here and the banks went up and we got on top of the banks and the Germans started firing at us. And then we made a quick retreat. That was the first time we — but the second time we wanted to move camp. So we wanted to steal a lorry to put our, what cooking utensils we’d got. And we set up our Bren. We had a Bren gun. Well, I had a Sten gun and two hundred rounds and a grenade which I kept in my pocket. And as I walked it rubbed. Rubbed the skin off. Anyway, I never used it. But a lorry, two lorries came along. We stopped them and there was about forty Germans in there. [laughs] So, we were in trouble. The bullets started to fly but there again we were on a bank. The bullets were going over the top and we were down here. They couldn’t hit us unless you put your head up which we didn’t. And after, oh a quite long time everything went quiet. And we got a New Zealand lad named Till . By this time we’d collected other, you know, other, other RAF. He said to the man next to him, ‘What’s happening?’ And they had a word which they used quite often. Kaput. You could use this word on everything and this man said, ‘The Germans kaput.’ What he meant was, ‘Germans kaput. Keep down.’ But Till thought he meant they’d capitulated and he stood up. And the bullets just cut him down to ribbons. So, we had to get out. So we wandered around for two or three days in to the woods. Our group had been split up. Eventually we, we found one of the Belgian lads and he said, ‘We’re going to go to a place just outside [Maison?] where they’ve got a farm. We’re going there.’ So, we went to this farm. They were using the farm as an orphanage and we were in the cow shed which had luckily been cleaned out. And so there were twenty four of us. Or rather twenty of us. Four were in the house. They were ill so, and we were woken up one morning at 6 o’clock. It was a, it was the [pause] let me see it would be, it would be the 10th. It was the 10th of September. 6 o’clock we were woken up. ‘Shhh,’ and we looked out and let me, if this, this is the farm and the cow shed was up here. There was a road here. And the Germans were going around like that. They were going. If they’d have come this way they’d have caught us all but as they were going that way.
CB: They went around the far side of the farm.
KT: We got out. We ran across this field here . And we were halfway across the field before they realised and started firing. And, you know, if there’s bullets at the back of you it’s amazing how quick you can run.
CB: And you’re all the aircrew because the Maquis are not with you now, are they?
KT: No. Oh yes. Oh no, it was all aircrew. That included the complete crew of a Flying Fortress. No. There would be two or three Belgian men. Mainly aircrew. And of course once we got to the top and started to go down the other side they couldn’t fire at us any more. So we ran down the hill. And there was a river I suppose it would be, about as wide as this garden and twenty bods jumped in. Three strokes and on the other side. And we were in the woods then and we were okay. And I remember sitting on a log. Soaking wet. Hadn’t had a cup of tea. Hadn’t had any breakfast. Thinking, you know, this is freezing cold although it was August err September.
CB: 1944.
KT: 1944. If you’re soaking wet all your tobacco’s wet. And about 12 o’clock, after six hours in the woods then the, one of the Belgian lads said, ‘I’m going into the village to see if I can find out.’ And I think went about 12 o’clock. Two hours later we heard a tank coming into the woods. Prior to that the shells had been going that way. Then shells coming this way. Then shells going that way. So, we knew that there was a, an American tank column close by. And as I say, 2 o’clock we heard this tank coming in to the woods and we thought well, you know, we’ve had enough now, walking about [unclear]. And it turned out to be an American jeep without a silencer. Two Americans. They gave us all Cognac and cigarettes and you can imagine the effect. Cognac and cigarettes on somebody that’s hadn’t had anything to eat. Anyway, two more, two more jeeps arrived and we all got into the jeeps. Took us into the village and we were behind the American lines then. And then our problems started.
CB: Really?
KT: Well, we’d got to get to Paris for the, to the Hotel Maurice. Or Maurice they called it. That’s where the escapees were. And, but everything was going this way and we wanted to go that way [laughs] but eventually we got to a place where there was six American lorries going back. Directly back to Paris. And we each got in one of these lorries. Four of us. And two days. It took us two days. Wonderful. We used to wake up in the morning and I slept on the back of the lorry in his fold up bed. He slept in the cab across the seats. The driver. A lovely fella, I never. And he got plenty of cigarettes and he’d got plenty of food. He’d got a little primer stove. We made coffee. We cooked bacon. The Germans knew, the Americans knew about food. I mean the bacon was in tins. It was loaded with lard you know so that it was easy to fry. And at lunchtime we had corned beef hash. We lived like lords for two days. And we got back to this hotel. And you can imagine I hadn’t had my clothes off for five weeks and I didn’t smell very good at all. And my clothes. But the first thing we wanted was a shower. We couldn’t have one. They hadn’t got any water. [laughs] They’d just got enough water to cook with. So we couldn’t even have a wash. But what they did they took all our clothes off us and gave us an American suntan. They call their, their, it’s like khaki. So I had a shirt and a pair of trousers. Some underwear. I had to keep my own boots on though. And the next day we flew back from Orly Airport to London. We arrived at 12 o’clock at night at Hendon and they put us through customs [laughs]. I mean it’s true.
CB: Fancy running customs in the war.
KT: It’s true. We had to go through customs. We’d been missing for five weeks. Had to go through customs. Then we got into the dining room and we were offered cold sausage and mash. And we told them what to do with it. So that was it. So then I wanted to phone. So I went into the ballroom of this, we were at the Central Hotel at Marylebone. Went into the ballroom where there was one phone and the queue went right around [laughs] So I didn’t bother. The next day we went for debriefing and that was it.
CB: So they took you somewhere else for debriefing did they?
KT: Yeah. Yes. I don’t know where it was.
CB: And there, did they send you back to Leconfield or did you go home?
KT: No. No. No. No, I immediately went on indefinite leave.
CB: Right.
KT: Which only lasted ten days. And as I say then I had a problem then because I had this letter to say I was a pilot officer. But when I got to Morecambe I had to wait until the papers come through. But by that time I’d left and gone to Nairn and I had to wait at Nairn.
CB: So, just to —
KT: Pardon?
CB: Just to clarify that. Why did they send you to Morecambe? What happened there?
KT: It was just a place to, I don’t know. They, somewhere to go. I mean we didn’t do anything. And then we didn’t do anything at, at Nairn. And eventually they sent us from Nairn on leave again. But I had my pass made out to London. And so when I, I got off at Birmingham. The next day I went down, down to London. To Bush House. I walked in to Bush House and was immediately thrown out by a warrant officer. And I walked back in and I said, ‘Before you can say anything I’m a commissioned officer and I want my papers.’ Oh. That altered things. And they rushed me through and got my papers and gave me my coupons. You wouldn’t know anything about coupons. Clothing coupons. And sent me back home and I went to, I got my uniform made. Well, yeah I got my uniform at one of the big shops in Birmingham and from there, let me see. Where did I go to from there? [pause] Oh, I went to Fauld at Burton on Trent. Or did I? It’s getting a bit vague now. But anyway I eventually finished up at Halfpenny Green at Wolverhampton as an instructor. And I was able to live at home from there. I used to go in like every morning. It was like office work.
CB: So, why didn’t they send you back to the squadron? Was there a policy?
KT: Well, I wouldn’t be able to fly over Germany because I was an escapee. And they, so that was my ops finished. I eventually got another [pause] a letter to say that I was due to go back on ops but that would have been in Japan or something like that. But of course they dropped the atomic bombs before that could happen.
CB: Just to get the chronological order here. When you came back from Paris — when are we talking about? Are we talking about before Christmas ’44 or after Christmas or when?
KT: No. I came back —
CB: Because you were shot down in September.
KT: On the 13th of September.
CB: Yeah. So how long before you came back from Paris?
KT: Well, I, I got behind the American lines on the 10th. It took two days to get to Paris. Then the third day. So we’re talking about the 13th or 14th and I came —
CB: Of October or November?
KT: Pardon?
CB: October or November.
KT: No. September.
CB: Yeah. But you were shot down on the 13th of September.
KT: No. 13th of August.
CB: Oh. The 13th of August. Right. Okay. Yeah.
KT: So, it was —
CB: So, you got back on the —
KT: Yeah. I was back and they sent me home on leave from there.
CB: Okay.
KT: From London.
CB: Yeah.
KT: That was my ops finished you see.
CB: Yeah. So at Halfpenny Green you were dealing, you were training navigators.
KT: That’s right.
CB: Or something else.
KT: Yeah. We marked their, we marked their logs.
CB: And how long did you do that for?
KT: About twelve months I think.
CB: Right. Okay. So, you mentioned earlier flying in a Dakota. How did that come about?
KT: I flew back from Orly Airport in a Dakota.
CB: Right. But you weren’t operational on Dakotas.
KT: Oh no. No.
CB: Okay.
KT: No.
CB: Okay. Right. So from Halfpenny Green we’re now talking about — that’s in ’44.
KT: Yeah.
CB: So, the war in Japan was over in August ’45.
KT: Yeah.
CB: How much longer were you in the RAF?
KT: Oh dear. I did [pause] Halfpenny Green then closed down. And I had the job of posting all the ground crew. Oh [laughs] what a job that was. Some of them had been there all during the war. Lived at home. Didn’t want to be posted anywhere. Because they, people used to, I used to get the information that such and such a camp wanted a sergeant and I used to send a sergeant there. Post him there.
CB: A ground crew sergeant.
KT: Pardon?
CB: A ground crew sergeant.
KT: All ground crew.
CB: Yeah.
KT: Yeah. All ground. I hadn’t anything to do with aircrew. Not posting aircrew. I’m just trying to think where else I was [pause] Because I left. Oh, I know what it was. I finished up, I I was posted to Sutton Coldfield which was a, I think it was 41 Group. It was a stores. And what did I do there? Oh that’s right. I was promoted to flight lieutenant and put in charge of the EVT. Educational Vocational Training. And that’s what I did. It was my job then to find jobs for, or courses rather for WAAFs and anybody. I mean, find WAAFs a cookery course or a sewing course or something like that. And I was there for six months. And from there I was given my marching orders at Wembley Park.
CB: When was that?
KT: That was in ’46.
CB: What time?
KT: Pardon?
CB: What time of year?
KT: Oh, I couldn’t tell you.
CB: Roughly.
KT: I haven’t got the foggiest idea now. I can’t tell you. I should think it would be summer somewhere.
CB: Yeah. Okay. Shall we have a break because you’ve done brilliantly. Thank you.
[recording paused]
CB: Well, I’ve got some cake for you in the car.
KT: Pardon?
CB: Do you like cake?
KT: Oh no. I won’t have anything to eat. No.
CB: Okay.
KT: That would spoil my tea.
CB: We just thought you might like some Victoria sponge you see. So —
[recording paused]
KT: Promoted to squadron leader but it meant my commission was a wartime commission.
CB: VR.
KT: But I could have had a permanent commission. I was called in to the adjutant‘s office and offered this rank of squadron leader. But it meant I would be posted to Hong Kong. Well, I had been in the forces six, six years. We’d got a young daughter by this time and I didn’t think it was fair that I should, I’d be posted again so I turned it down. Unfortunately, what he didn’t tell me was that had I have gone my wife could have come over after about six months. Whether she would have wanted to I don’t know. She wasn’t that type really. So I, by and large I think I did the right thing, you know. But I loved the RAF. If you took to it you had a good time. If you didn’t like it you didn’t have a very good time because some people just couldn’t take it, you know.
CB: So people who couldn’t take it.
KT: They were always in trouble.
CB: Right.
KT: But they wouldn’t get on very far, you know.
CB: But what about LMF?
KT: LMF.
CB: Did you get any of that?
KT: Lack of moral fibre.
CB: Yes.
KT: We only had one. Don’t forget I was only on the squadron sixty eight days and in that time I did twenty five. We set off on twenty seven. But —
CB: Trips. Yeah. So, did you know about or you only had one did you say?
KT: Yeah.
CB: Circumstance you knew about. What was that?
KT: He just —
CB: Was it on your squadron?
KT: Yeah. He, he turned back. He’d set off on a raid. He’d come back for various reasons and, you know they soon realised that he’d —
CB: Was this the pilot or the navigator?
KT: He was the pilot.
CB: So what did they do to him?
KT: Well, they had, they had a station where they sent them to. I don’t know. I don’t know.
CB: Was he commissioned or an NCO?
KT: Oh yeah. I think. Yeah.
CB: Because they had the habit of parading people in front of the squadron. The station.
KT: No. They didn’t do that. They didn’t do that in this case.
CB: What affect did that have? His removal. On the rest of the crews?
KT: Well, it didn’t. It didn’t make any difference by, you know, after a time you get, you get hardened to it I think. You don’t think about it. You don’t think it’s you. Ever going to happen to you.
CB: As a crew then how did you get on together?
KT: Oh, we were marvellous. Only one [pause] let me see. There was one. Only one of us didn’t smoke. All the rest smoked. And so because of that we didn’t smoke in the plane. Lots of crews smoked. We didn’t. It wouldn’t have been fair anyway on the, our wireless operator didn’t. He didn’t smoke so —
CB: But it was actually forbidden to smoke in the plane but people still did. Is that right?
KT: Oh yes. I’m sure they did. We had one funny at Lossiemouth. We were going out on the cross-country and suddenly the pilot said, ‘My flying instructor’s coming with us today.’ And then my navigator instructor, he said, ‘I’m coming with you today.’ I never thought anything. But as we were on the way back he said, ‘Give me, give us a course for Stornoway.’ And so I said, you know, ‘What’s going on?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘The wireless has broken down and we’re not to fly back without the wireless.’ I said, well I said, ‘We can see the base.’ [laughs’ I said, ‘We can almost see Lossiemouth from here.’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘We’re going to stay at Stornoway.’ They wanted the night out you see [laughs] So, we landed at Stornoway and [laughs] I don’t know.
CB: And when you were, as a crew you were all in the same Nissen hut were you?
KT: Yeah. Oh yes. We —
CB: So what was that like?
KT: Pardon?
CB: What was that like?
KT: Oh, it was marvellous. We were a good crew because we, strangely enough not one of us used bad language. Now, that’s amazing. As I say six of us smoked but we wouldn’t smoke in the plane. And we got on well. We were all, we were six good friends. You’ll have to excuse me.
CB: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: Okay.
KT: Ordered to bale out. I was the second one.
CB: The second one out of the aircraft.
KT: Yeah. My escape hatch.
CB: Yeah.
KT: I presume the wireless operator would go out of the same one. Now, the others would go out of the entrance of the side of the plane.
CB: Right.
KT: I know that the flight, the flight engineer handed the parachute to the pilot. He said he handed it to the pilot. And I can only presume that the pilot went down the plane to see if everybody was — this is the sort of man he was. I’m only presuming this. I don’t know. And he found the rear gunner was either injured or trapped in his turret but they both went down with the plane. They were both killed and that’s the only thing I could — we had plenty of time to get out.
CB: But he was struggling, you think, to release the rear gunner.
KT: Yeah. I don’t know. As I say because I can remember the plane going around in the circle. I could see light. So, he had plenty of time to get out. It doesn’t take long to get out of an aircraft.
CB: So, did the plane then blow up or did it gradually go down?
KT: I don’t know. I never found out.
CB: You didn’t see it.
KT: I never found out. I went back to Ciney. We were, I did a lot of caravanning after the war. My wife and I were very very keen on it and we were coming back from Italy and I said to her, I said, ‘You know, if we went out of our way just a little bit and went a day early we could go to where I was shot down.’ And so that’s what we did. But we couldn’t find anybody interested in. Nobody knew anything about the Maquis at all. And I was just, this was at the Council House there. And I was just about to leave when one of the older men came and said, ‘If you come back here tomorrow at 10 o’clock,’ he said, ‘I’ll put you in touch with the Baron, Baron [ de Boert?] who was the second in command. I found out that the Chief Tom had died and his wife. His wife incidentally was the liaison officer between the Maquis and Britain. But they’d both died. But the Baron was still alive and so we went back to the Council Offices the next day and this man got him on the phone. The Baron. And he said, ‘Oh, come along and see me.’ So, we went. We went and had a day with the Baron. And then I went back again on [pause] with the, with the Lottery. Hero. They called it “Heroes Return.” They paid for me and my partner then. My wife had died. And we went back and the Baron had died. But his wife was there. So, we spent another day. But I went to see where my two lads, I still call them lads now, are buried. They’re buried at a little place called Hotton, near Marche. Very very, you know, quiet — they look after the war graves.
CB: Is it in a War Graves Cemetery?
KT: Pardon?
CB: Was it a War Graves Cemetery?
KT: Yeah. And while I was over at —
CB: How is it spelled? Hotton.
KT: I went to see the grave of my grandfather who was killed on the Somme during the First World War.
CB: So what were the ages of your crew?
KT: Well —
CB: The signaller was how old? Ezra.
KT: Well, Dennis Barr was twenty two. Bernie Harken was thirty two. Bill Ezra was thirty. The two gunners were nineteen. And the —
CB: Engineer.
KT: The flight engineer was twenty.
CB: So, he was Goddard?
KT: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. What’s his first name?
KT: [laughs]
CB: Doesn’t matter.
KT: It’ll come to me.
CB: Yeah. Okay. So the rear gunner was the chap who was killed.
KT: And the pilot.
CB: And the pilot. Yeah. And Broddle —
KT: Pardon?
CB: Broddle was the rear gunner. Broddle it says here.
KT: Yes. No. It was another one.
CB: What was his name?
KT: No. They’ve got it wrong. Alf Broddle was the mid-upper gunner.
CB: Oh right.
KT: And Orrick was the rear gunner
CB: What was his first name? Orrick, B.
KT: Basil
CB: Basil. And Goddard was A.
KT: Arthur.
CB: Arthur.
KT: That’s it.
CB: Okay. Just some quick things. You were married early on and it must have been a bit of a strain being away from your wife. How did you deal with that? Were you able to see her much?
KT: No.
CB: She was in Birmingham was she?
KT: Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, naturally I missed her. And I was always glad to get home on leave. But, I don’t know, somehow I never thought of being, about being killed or anything like that. It never struck me.
CB: Well, how did she feel about the whole experience?
KT: Well, she, she was like of other girls then. Their husband or sweethearts were in the forces and that was it. They got on with it, you know. For them it was a question of coupons and rations and I never had anything like that. I didn’t know anything about rationing.
CB: No.
KT: Coupons.
CB: No. So what did she do in the war? Did she have to work in armaments or what did she do?
KT: Well, she worked for her father in [pause] they had a factory. He owned a factory that did the hardening, tempering and plating for the Air Force —
CB: And how many other of the crew were married?
KT: None.
CB: Right.
KT: I was the only one.
CB: After the war Ken, what did you do?
KT: Oh, after the war I started up on my own as a carpenter. Well, maintenance work really. And I did that until I got some sense. In other words I realised that people just didn’t pay. In those days if you did a job for anybody you did the work and you sent them a bill. And at the end of the month you sent them a statement. At the end of the second month you sent them a second statement. At the end of the third month — and this is how it went on. Eventually you had to go around and sometimes they’d give you something. And I realised I was flogging a dead horse so I got myself a job as a, for one of my customers. He’d got five shops and he wanted somebody to do the maintenance work at the shops. And so he offered me a job which I couldn’t refuse. And provided me with a little van. And that went on for a couple of years. Three. Three or four years until he, he got very fond of the ladies. And his wife set a private detective on him. I realised that the firm was going to come to a nasty end so I got myself a job as a rep. And eventually I finished up as the area manager for a plant hire company. And I worked for them until I retired.
CB: When did, when did you become a rep? When?
[pause]
KT: Let me see. I did ten years on my own. Seven. So ’46, ’56. About ’63.
CB: Good. Thank you very much. Well we’ve covered a very wide range. I’d just like to thank you.
KT: Yeah.
CB: Very much. For everything you’ve done there.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Kenneth William Trueman
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ATruemanKW150921
Format
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01:42:40 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Kenneth William Trueman volunteered for the RAF and was called up in 1941. After training in South Africa, he served as a navigator with 640 Squadron and speaks of his preference for the Gee navigation aid rather than H2S. His operations included bombing the site of V-1s. He describes how on his twenty-fifth operation his plane was one of the first to be shot down by a German night fighter with a gun pointing upwards (also known as schräge musik). He baled out and he and four of his crew were rescued by the Maquis resistance forces and he tells of going on raids with them and evading German forces. He was repatriated by American forces and then served as an instructor. After the war he returned to carpentry. He later visited the area of his crash and met with a surviving Maquis leader and also visited the War Graves Cemetary where his other two crew members are buried.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Great Britain
South Africa
United States
England--Yorkshire
New York (State)--New York
New York (State)
France--Ardennes
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942-06-06
1943
1944-06-06
1944-06-05
1944
640 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
crash
crewing up
evading
final resting place
Gee
H2S
Halifax
lack of moral fibre
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Leconfield
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Lossiemouth
Resistance
shot down
training
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/340/11808/BThomasWKThomasWKv1.2.pdf
e5b0b8afc7063253cd39405680e94d56
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Thomas, Ken
William Kenneth Thomas
William K Thomas
William Thomas
W K Thomas
W Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with William Kenneth 'Ken' Thomas DFC (1022415 and 186493 Royal Air Force), two photographs and a memoir. Flight Lieutenant Ken Thomas flew operations as a pilot with 622 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Ken Thomas and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Thomas, WK
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
If you can't take a joke ........
by William Kenneth Thomas DFC
I was born in Liverpool on 19th December 1921. I have a sister namely Evelyn Gwyneth born 15th October 1920. My father and mother moved from Liverpool to Beaumaris in 1924 approximately and purchased a well established chemist business in 40 Castle Street. At that time the population of the town was approximately 3000 and there were two chemist shops.
I attended the Beaumaris Council School, both infants and seniors. Whilst at Primary School in Beaumaris, I spent quite a lot of time in the summer months on the boats and the sea shore. I also did a fair amount of swimming, and although there was a public swimming baths in Beaumaris, I preferred the end of the pier. I often swam across the Menai Straits which was very dangerous particularly at low tide when the current was flowing at some 12 14 knots. I was on occasions carried under the pier and was badly cut on the barnacles. I also did rowing, sailing and fishing, and used to know the Straits fairly well.
The end of the pier was also one of my favourite places for catching crabs and prawns. I got into a terrible state with mud and grime. I remember on one occasion being there when my mother and a very posh friend of hers, namely, Mrs Sircus waiting at the pier wall, dressed up and ready to take the small ferry boat, which in those days plied from Beaumaris to Bangor. Of course, I wanted to go with them, although I was filthy dirty with mud and had no shoes. Exactly what happened next, I do not remember, although I do recall the incident very well, and no doubt caused my mother some considerable embarrassment.
I was a poor scholar and frequently in trouble as I got in with a bad crowd, who were generally very poor and appeared jealous of my living conditions in comparison with their own. I was therefore involved in numerous affrays and mischievous pranks. I only just managed to pass the required standards for entry into the Beaumaris Grammar School as a fee paying pupil, and continued to be in trouble as I seldom did my homework, and spent many long hours playing football and cricket.
The headmaster of the Beaumaris Grammar School was a man called Frank Jones. He was a real tyrant, and was most unpopular and hated by both staff and pupils because of his general attitude. He walked in a very stupid manner, and I called him "Here's my head, my arse is
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coming!" I was always in his black books, and whenever anything went wrong, I was usually there. I disobeyed many of his rules, such as not kicking or playing football in the school yard, not wearing school uniform cap and blazer etc., throwing fireworks, snowballs, and so on. I smashed one window in the memorial hall as there was a stone in the snowball
I played a lot of football and cricket and was in the school's first eleven. I was also a strong swimmer. I carried off many prizes at local and school swimming galas.
I must just mention that in the early days all the rubbish in Beaumaris was tipped in a place called the Point. This is now a boat builders' yard, but it used to be infested with rats. Anyone could go there and catch and kill as many rats as possible and obtain a shilling a tail at Beaumaris Town Hall. Since I had a good dog, a Springer spaniel called Glen; I often went there and made a few bob. Sometimes my friend and I would take a few rats home and let them go in the yard and let the dogs chase them. Most of the money we got was spent in the liberal club on billiards and snooker.
Having failed at school in Beaumaris, my father made arrangements for my education to be continued at Friars School in Bangor, and this was where I met my first girlfriend namely Eve Bock. I used to see her every day, as we were both catching the same bus to school in Bangor each morning…More about this will be mentioned later.
I once again failed to pass the matriculation examination, and by this time, it was plain to see that the Second World War was fast approaching. Since I was 17 plus, I would be obliged to register for military service. I was completely undecided what I was going to do and finally decided to go into the Merchant Navy as a cadet. This all came about after a long discussion with a friend of my father's Captain Morris Jones who was a member of the Beaumaris Lodge of Freemasons. He was incidentally later killed in action out in the Middle East. I was measured up for my Cadet uniform and had passed all the necessary medical and educational standards required. However, by this time, the war had started, and numerous ships were being sunk by submarines. My mother decided that this was not a good idea and stopped me going. I then informed her of the seriousness of the situation, which she didn't seem to quite understand, and I finally persuaded her to let me go into the RAF on the Ground Staff, with the condition that I was not to fly! I duly passed the medical and educational standards required in Caernarvon, and since I was still under `calling up' age, was able to choose the ground course I required, that was, Flight Mechanic.
I was finally called up just after the evacuation on Dunkirk, and had to report to Padgate in Lancashire, where I spent three weeks
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confined to camp until I was conversant with RAF Regulations, and able to conduct myself as an airman. l was then transferred to Blackpool south Shore, where I was in private billets for two weeks and we were thinking we were going to have a very nice war!
I was then posted to Bridgnorth Shropshire for further training i.e. square bashing, rifle drill, inoculations, guard duties etc. I was there for approximately 3 months during which time Coventry had received its heaviest raid of the war. We could see exactly what was going on and hear and visualise all that was happening over the skyline, because Bridgnorth Camp was situated some distance from the town on the top of a very steep hill. I also remember carrying our kitbags all the way from the station to the camp, and when we got there, the billets had not been prepared for us. Therefore, we had to set to preparing and cleaning the huts, cleaning the floor and stove, and setting up our beds for the night. We were all by this time muttering a few hash words, but we had to take it, and as we went on, we found that the discipline in this camp was very strict by comparison with what we had experienced previously. The instructors and the people in charge of the various intakes were extremely crude and corrupt. One sergeant instructor immediately informed us that they called him `Slim the Bastard', and that if we crossed him, he would show us `what a real bastard was like.' For instance, on one particular day, we had three inoculations one after the other followed by rifle drill on the square. Several of the people on parade either fainted or fell down, and were merely carried away to sick quarters to recover.
From Bridgnorth, I went to No7 S of TT (No 7 School of Technical Training) at Hednesford which was situated on Cannock Chase and very high up in the hills. Consequently, it was a very cold camp. My course here lasted about three to four months. Again, there was very strict discipline and since the school had some four brass and silver bands, we had to form up and march back and forth to and from our work and technical school daily. Apart from the school we had to do guard duties, fire and air raid drills, and also gas precautions and action to be taken in the event of an attack. These duties were all done in the evening after school hours. As you can see, there was very little time for recreation and we didn't manage to get out very much. During my stay, an epidemic of scarlet fever broke out on the camp, and this further complicated matters.
However, I finally passed out as a Flight Mechanic – AC1 (Aircraftsman First class) but knew comparatively little about my trade. I was immediately posted to Penrhos Bombing School near Pwlleli in North Wales along with a number of other people on my course. Penrhos was a small grass airfield and was really too small for the types of aircraft operating there i.e. Whitleys, Blenheims, Fairey Battles and Ansons. These aircraft were used for the training of navigators and straight air
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gunners and were kept pretty busy. I was looking after the only Whitley fitted with radial `Tiger' engines and experienced considerable trouble keeping it airworthy. There were constant problems with the engine ignition systems mainly due to the exposure of the plug leads which allowed a certain amount of moisture to seep in, causing engines to cut out or lose power. This, on such a small grass airfield, described in many instances by pilots as `like landing on a saucer' proved to be very dangerous and there were numerous accidents. It was quite common to see five or six accidents daily, due to aircraft either overshooting or undershooting the airfield. Some of these were, of course, fatal and aircraft could be seen burnt out around the airfield perimeter.
I [inserted] t [/inserted] eventually became apparent that this airfield was unfit for the purpose for which it was being used, and much of the flying was eventually transferred to a new aerodrome that had just been opened near Caernarvon, namely Llandurog. Here there were proper runways and hard standing, and we finally did all our night flying from here. This meant frequent travelling in open wagons and of course it was very cold and uncomfortable in wintertime. We were obliged to exist on such occasions on pilchards, sandwiches and cocoa for many of our meals, and were glad of these. There was only one really bad accident in the whole time I can remember flying from Llandurog. It involved a couple of Whitleys which were both trying to land at the same time. One landed on top of the other causing the deaths of about sixteen personnel on board. It was, of course caused by carelessness on the parts of the pilots of the aircraft and also the people controlling the aircraft from the control tower.
I used to get very depressed with life at Penrhos, although I did do some [deleted] night [/deleted] flying on flight tests, and often flew to our maintenance depot at Hell's Mouth . [deleted] This again [/deleted] [inserted] Hells Mouth [/inserted] , was [inserted] also [/inserted] very precariously positioned, which [inserted] & also on cross country frlights with training navigator & gunners [/inserted] accounted for many accidents during landings. [inserted] & take offs [/inserted]
In view of the situation, I was frequently at home [inserted] in Beaumaris [/inserted] at weekends, and [deleted]of course [/deleted] [inserted] was often [/inserted] missing from my flight duties [deleted] and [/deleted] [inserted] I [/inserted] [deleted] i [/deleted] t was [inserted] therefore [/inserted] only a matter of time before I would have been caught. I used to break out of the camp at the back of my billet, and climb over the barbed wire entanglements in order to catch the local bus to Caernarvon and Bangor. Of course, this meant I had to get back [inserted] again [/inserted] very early on the following Monday morning and my father had to drive me to Menai Bridge, where I caught a [deleted] small [/deleted] [inserted] local [/inserted] train on a single track line to a place called Avonwen and then on to Pwlleli. The problem then was getting back into the camp without being seen and before roll call. Fortunately, for me, we had a good sergeant in charge of our flight, Sgt. Hudson, and I [deleted] got [/deleted] [inserted] managed to get [/inserted] away with it on all occasions.
In order to prevent trouble in the future, I decided to attend night school. I had a very good education officer, and managed to achieve the required standard of education very quickly. I finally had an interview
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with the camp commanding officer Group captain Williamson, and after an aircrew medical examination, was recommended for a Pilot/Navigator [inserted] /Air Gunner [/inserted] course. I was then posted to London ACRC (Air Crew Receiving Centre) where I was given a white flash for display in my forage cap. I stayed in flats in London in a place called Avenue close, St John's Wood, and had to attend various centres for tests in maths and Signals particularly Morse Code. The Morse test was carried out at Lord's Cricket Ground. We had to pass out at 12 words per minute. Fortunately, sitting close at hand were a couple of wireless operator air gunners who were in the course of remustering to Pilot/Navigators. We, naturally, got all our information from them, and so passed the course comfortably.
From London ACRC, I was posted to No 4 ITW (Initial training Wing) at Paignton for 14 weeks. Here we had more instruction on mathematics, signals, meteorology, navigation, airmanship, air force law, armaments, aircraft and ship recognition, and of course square bashing and drill. All the hotels in Paignton had by this time been taken over by the RAF, and I was billeted in the Ramleh hotel right on the sea front. The Palace hotel was close by and this was our mess. All lectures and instruction were arranged daily at a very smart country house outside Paignton off the main Torquay Road. No transport was laid on, and we therefore had to fall in and march to attention at 140 paces to the minute, which was quite a fast pace, for quite a long distance. I had to work very hard to keep up with this course as the pass marks on each subject were very high. In subjects such as Morse Code and Aircraft Recognition it was 100%. I was very lucky to get some help at weekends with my studies from a Beaumaris acquaintance, namely Hugh Williams, who happened to have been a headmaster in Manchester prior to the war and had been called up and commissioned in the RAF. He was instructing on Maths and Navigation at an ITW in Torquay where he lived with his family. Our final test in Signals was unique in many respects as [inserted] we [/inserted] were all assembled on the Paignton seafront and had to read an Aldis lamp signal flashed to us from Torbay (Hope's Nose peninsula) a distance of some six to seven miles.
During our time in Paignton and Torquay, we had frequent visits from the Luftwaffe fighters, mainly Messerschmidt 109, and Fokkerwolf 190 fighter aircraft, which roared in from the sea on many occasions and dropped their bombs and strafed the sea front and retired. However, all in all, we had a fairly pleasant time in Paignton. I missed the athletic display put on in Torquay for the visit of King George V1 by Air Commodore Critchley. The reason for this was that I got very badly sunburnt, and managed to get out of this very well. Everybody thought it was a waste of time anyway, and we were browned off in more ways than one, for having to go and prepare for this event.
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On completion of the course, I was made up to Leading Aircraftsman, and had the coveted propeller badge on my uniform sleeve.
From Paignton, I was posted to Desford near Leicester to do my [inserted] Flying [/inserted] Grading School. This was to see if I was suitable for Pilot/ Navigator/Bomb Aimer. In order to pass as a pilot, I had to go solo by day and also solol by night. [inserted] T [/inserted] His course was completed in the allotted 12 hours and again, I had no real problems, but many [deleted] people [/deleted] [inserted] students [/inserted] were then sorted out. [inserted] as they failed to achieve the required standard. [/inserted]
[inserted] All details of my flying at Desford were lost as I had no log book at that time. This was unfortunate as I particularly wanted to know the exact times I required to be “solo” day & night. [/inserted]
I then went to Heaton Park, Manchester [inserted] & slept [/inserted] under canvas to await my posting as trainee pilot to Canada. This was also the time of Gwyneth and John's wedding. John was heading for the Middle East, and they decided on the spur of the moment to marry. Under the circumstances, I was unable to attend the wedding. I only stayed in Manchester for some three or four weeks, during which time, I got engaged to Eve Bock. She was also living in the [inserted] symbol [/inserted] Manchester area, as she had not at that time been called up for the WAAF.
During my stay at Heaton Park, the Station Warrant Officer who was a bit of a bully , was thrown into the lake and almost drowned. Nobody had much sympathy for him, and I believe he was later removed from office and absolved of all responsibility for airmen, as clearly we were on the verge of rioting. I finally left Manchester late at night by train for Greenock, Clyde Scotland and was taken out to a liner, namely the Thomas H Barrie, by a steamer known to me from my days on the Menai Straits as the St Seriol, which pre war, was a pleasure steamer plying from Liverpool to Menai Bridge during the summer season.
I sailed in a large American convoy, which zig zagged its way across the Atlantic in August 1942, and after fourteen days at sea during which one boat was sunk and another set on [deleted] fore [/deleted] [inserted] fire [/inserted] , the convoy arrived in New York. The journey had been fairly unpleasant as we had very little to do and my bunk was situated near to one of the vents from the engine room and it was very hot and uncomfortable. However the food was good and there was plenty of it. Most of the lads had stomach trouble due to the richness of the food which we were not used to. I had severe diarrhoea but I didn't stop eating. There was a large 14 inch gun at the back of the boat on a special platform and this was firing from time to time. It was manned by naval personnel who were also dropping depth charges because of the submarine menace. I can well remember going through the Newfoundland fog bank off the coast of the USA and waking up in the morning on the outside deck soaking wet and very cold. I had little choice but to sleep [inserted] outside [/inserted] most of the time on deck due to the heat from the engine room. On arrival in New York, we saw the liner Queen Mary which was used at that time as a troop ship. She was speeding back to the United Kingdom full of troops and without a convoy.
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We entrained for Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, and stopped at a place called Bangor Maine on the way north. We were allowed to get off the train, and this was the first experience I had of spending American dollars. The journey took about 24 hours to complete and was reasonably comfortable. We had plenty to eat and the seats were large and roomy.
Moncton was a very large holding unit, and all RAF aircrew personnel going in and out of Canada had to pass through there. I was only in Moncton for about four weeks and was then posted to Stanley, Nova Scotia No 17 elementary Flying training School ( Royal Canadian Air Force) where all instructors were civilian bush pilots. Here we flew Fleet Finch bi planes which were fitted with a Kinner 5 R radial engine. The machine was roughly twice the size of a Tiger Moth and used for initial training purposes. It was, I think, a very good aircraft on which to commence flying. The instructors were also very good at their jobs. They were conversant with the aircraft and knew the territory over which we were flying. Seldom did they have to refer to any maps, although these were always taken on our flights. Apart from day and night flying, and aerobatics, we had to attend Ground School, and covered Navigation, airmanship, Aircraft Recognition, Meteorology, and Armaments. [inserted] & Signals [/inserted] Altogether, I did some 76.55 hours flying at this station. There were no serious accidents, apart from the occasional ground loop to which these machines were subject in [deleted] the [/deleted] [inserted] a [/inserted] cross wind. [inserted] The remedy to counteract this was a very quick & positive pressure on the rudder bar – to stop the swing to the right - which was a characteristic of this aircraft.
My next posting was to No 8 Service Flying Training School at Lakeburn, New Brunswick, another Royal Canadian Air Force station. This was a fairly large aerodrome, and in those days used by civilian aircraft on regular routes throughout Canada. All Staff in our area were Royal Canadian Air Force, and our unit was separate from the civilian sector. Incidentally, our training was carried out under the Empire [inserted] Air [/inserted] Training Scheme. (Later the name was changed to Commonwealth Air Training Scheme) and there was a large notice board to this effect at the camp entrance.
I started my training here on Harvard 2 aircraft, but only did some [symbol ] 2hrs 30 [deleted] m [/deleted] [inserted] hrs [/inserted] on these before changing over to the Anson twin engmed aircraft. I flew some 270 hours in total before getting my wings, instrument rating etc.
Again it was , hard work, and I had to attend some of the extra instruction [deleted] exercises [/deleted] [inserted] classes [/inserted] in the evening [inserted] s [/inserted]when I wasn't flying. We had no flying accidents during my time here, although the winter was very harsh and the aircraft difficult to control when landing on ice and snow, particularly in any cross winds. Naturally, we had a `Wings Parade' at the
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end of the course. My `wings' were presented by the C.O., namely, Group Captain Hubbard, and I was promoted to Sergeant Pilot.
The `wings' presentation was the subject of a telegram home, as I felt I had achieved a positive result of which I was duly proud. Many of my school friends had failed the pilot's course in the early stages, and I don't believe they expected me to pass, in view of the results I had obtained at school.
I returned to 31 PD Moncton to await my posting back to the UK, and was fortunate to meet two old school friends from Beaumaris Grammar School, namely David Prewer and Clifford Roberts. David Prewer was a sergeant bomb aimer, and Clifford Roberts was commissioned as a wireless operator/air gunner. Both were on operations late in 1944 and David Prewer was killed in action. Clifford Roberts bailed out over France and was taken prisoner of war.
I returned to the United Kingdom on a very fast liner called the Louis Pasteur. We had no escort and were not troubled by submarine activity en [inserted] – [/inserted] route. However, again it was a very uncomfortable few days at sea, and during this time we had to sleep in hammocks and were squashed into one of the lower deck compartments. Had anything happened while we were in transit, we would not have got out. We had no fresh water on board for washing etc. and sanitary arrangements were very primitive. Going to the latrines was a dangerous business since these were merely long troughs with the sea water rushing through, and any careless movement would have been disastrous.
We duly arrived in Liverpool after about seven days out of Halifax which was really good going. The customs people checked all our kit and [deleted] other [/deleted] baggage for cameras and other contraband, and several airmen had to pay up or get their goods confiscated. There were no concessions made even in those days.
From Liverpool, we went on to Harrogate by train, and were billeted in the town centre in the Majestic Hotel. My intake was settled mostly on the top floor, and we were a mixed batch of pilots, navigators and bomb aimers. There were no lifts in operation and the main staircase had been boarded up to prevent wear and tear and other damages. We were given further tests, and one which I particularly remember was to check on our night vision capacity. Mine was assessed as being above average and this was noted in my log book. We were also given further inoculations and vaccinations, and after one particular dose, I was taken ill and removed to the sick bay. There I remained for two or three days recovering. Upon discharge, I had noticed some suppurating sores occurring on my nose and mouth area. Nevertheless, the M.O. still discharged me, but by evening time, I was re admitted with impetigo.
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This meant isolation for some three weeks, and then of course a period of sick leave.
On returning home, I contacted Eve Bock who was by this time a WAAF sergeant, and based in Lewes in the south of England. I went down to see her, but obviously she had found another boyfriend. I decided almost immediately to retrieve my engagement ring. [inserted] & [/inserted] I finally returned home to Beaumaris really sad and fed up. After this, I had several more girlfriends but nothing serious until I arrived at Shepherd's Grove on a Heavy Conversion course on Stirlings. I was home on leave when I met Mary. More will be said about this at a later stage.
My first posting in the United Kingdom was to South Cerney near Cirencester, Gloucestershire to an A.F.U (Advanced Flying Unit). Since South Cerney was the `parent' unit, we were almost immediately transferred to satellite units namely Tetbury and Southrop, to do our day flying and night flying respectively. Owing to the blackouts, night flying was very difficult, and we depended on occults and pundits for determining our position when on navigational exercises. ‘Occults’ were green lights flashing a single Morse [delete] character [/deleted] [inserted] characteric and denoted an aerodrome [/inserted] , and ‘pundits' were red lights flashing a two letter character [inserted] [ indecipherable word ] [/inserted] These were changed periodically to confuse the enemy, and all details of these were given [inserted] to us [/inserted] during pre flight briefings. In the event of any air raids in our vicinity, all aerodrome lights were switched off, and when flying we had to stop all transmissions, and fly from pundit to pundit until the raid was over and the all clear given.
In the event of any emergency when flying in Training command, the code word [inserted] for aircraft in difficulties [/inserted] was "Darky” as opposed to the international "Mayday" code used by operational squadrons. All these things had to be fully explained to [deleted] all [/deleted] aircrew taking part in such exercises, and this information was given usually in pre flight briefings.
The next stage of my training took me to Cranage in Cheshire where I completed a [inserted ' [/inserted]Beam Approach [inserted] ' [/inserted] course which we had to use in extremely bad visibility, conditions where we could not see the surrounding territory [inserted] or airfield [/inserted] . This was quite a difficult procedure, and we found it almost impossible to follow when flying heavy four engined aircraft because of the frequent large course changes which were necessary to carry out the landing procedures. We therefore used a different, system namely QGH, which was a `talk you down' control through [deleted] the [/deleted] cloud, and your aircraft headings [inserted] & height [/inserted] were all given by the ground controller. A similar system is still in use today. [inserted] Another procedure in foggy conditions was called “Fido” comparatively few airfields were equipped with this system. [/inserted]
Upon finishing at AFU, I went to Upper Heyford near Banbury - No 16 OTU (Operational Training Unit) on Wellingtons. Here we had to pick a crew of five people out of numerous aircrew milling around. This
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included a navigator, bomb aimer, wireless operator, air gunner, mid upper gunner, and rear gunner. [inserted] My flight engineer was chosen at Heavy Conversion Unit they were only employed on 4 engined A/C. [/inserted]
Flying the Wellington, which was classed as a twin engined medium sized bomber, was very different from what I had been used to. [inserted] As it looked very big and of course far more sophisticated from previous aircraft flown to date. [/inserted] Fortunately most of the people I chose as my crew proved reliable and [deleted] very big and of course far more sophisticated [/deleted] efficient, or at least they did at this stage. Further on, in [inserted] training on [/inserted] the different courses, some weaknesses did develop, and more will be said about this later. First of all, Upper Heyford closed down as a Bomber command [inserted] OTU [/inserted] [deleted] OUT [/deleted] and we were all transferred or posted to No 84 OTU at Desborough, Northants again on Wellingtons. This aircraft, [deleted] as already stated [/deleted] was far more complicated to fly because of [deleted] the [/deleted] [inserted] its [/inserted] size and extra instrumentation. We did many cross country flights particularly at night, some lasting six hours or more, and under some terrible weather conditions. Consequently, there were many accidents occurring in OTUs throughout the country. Many of these flights consisted of [deleted] a [/deleted] simulated attack [inserted] s [/inserted] on various towns and [inserted] chosen [/inserted] targets throughout the country, and usually fighter affiliation and [inserted] machine [/inserted] gun firing exercises were included in these flights. Firing the guns at night particularly, is quite an experience at first as we had tracer bullets mixed in with ordinary rounds of ammunition and the idea of this is self explanatory as it enables the gunners to [deleted] fix [/deleted] [insert] set [/insert] their sights on a particular [symbol] target. [insert] and see exactly where their bullets were going [/inserted] However, when first experienced one got the distinct impression that the aircraft's bullets [inserted] when fire in the [indecipherable word] areas [/inserted] were coming straight in at us, in our aircraft [inserted] which was extremely frightening [/inserted] . However, we all completed this course satisfactorily and went on to fly Stirlings Mark I and Mark III at Stradishall in Suffolk, and; [inserted] then [/inserted] on to its satellite at Shepherd's Grove, near Bury St Edmunds. This aircraft was [inserted] again [/inserted] huge by comparison with the Wellington and was classed as a heavy 4 engined bomber, with a particularly bad reputation: Numerous aircrews were killed flying the Stirling which suffered from all sorts of problems. Operationally they were almost useless because of their limited height approximately 12 14,000 maximum with a full bomb [inserted] if you were lucky [/inserted] . The undercarriage and flaps were operated electrically, and the undercarriage particularly [inserted , [/inserted] was in two tiers making the pilot's cockpit position [inserted] when on the ground [/inserted] some 2 [deleted] 6 [/deleted] [inserted] 0 [/inserted] ft above ground level [inserted] . [/inserted] Added to this, the braking system was inefficient and during circuits and bumps many aircraft ran off the runway due to lack of brake pressure. The undercarriage was weak, as already stated, because it was in two tiers, and in a cross wind, it was easily damaged and I [deleted] f [/deleted] [inserted] t [/inserted] often collapsed. [inserted] with catastrophic results. [/inserted]
Towards the end of the Stirling course, I was obliged to take a full medical examination. This happened [inserted] to all aircrew [/inserted] every six months to ensure that [deleted] aircrew [/deleted] we [deleted] e [/deleted] [inserted] were [/inserted] in good physical condition. [deleted] On this occasion [/deleted] , [deleted] I [/deleted] [inserted] I [/inserted] t was [deleted] found [/deleted] [inserted] discovered [/inserted] that my blood pressure was. too high [inserted] & [/inserted] I was immediately sent to hospital in Ely. I was kept under observation [inserted] there [/inserted] for some two to three weeks during which time several tests were carried out, as they thought I might have a
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[inserted] ** [/inserted] kidney problem. However, nothing was discovered and I was then sent down to London to No 1 Central Medical Board where I was seen by about eight doctors. Once again nothing could be found, and I was posted [inserted] on completion of the course [/inserted] [deleted] back [/deleted] to No 3 LFS (Lancaster Finishing School) at Feltwell in Norfolk. During this time, my crew had all been on leave and had been enjoying themselves. We were lucky in one way, as we missed [inserted] our previous [/inserted] [deleted] a [/deleted] posting on Stirlings to Algiers, and were really quite pleased about this. [inserted] We were not keen on the Stirling because of its operational performance & other major problems taking off & landing due to weak undercarriage & poor brakes etc. [/inserted]
However, I still had to complete [deleted] my [/deleted] [inserted] the [/inserted] Heavy Conversion Course on the Stirling and was obliged to do a night exercise which was a simulated night attack on Bristol. This was called a `Bulls Eye' and during the exercise, it was customary to have on board a screen navigator and also a screen pilot. It was [inserted] therefore [/inserted] very important we all pulled together as an efficient crew. Unfortunately, due to a navigational error, our navigator, by the [deleted] m [/deleted] =name of Jack O' Toole, got us to the target too early, [inserted] and In stead of getting me to do a dog leg in order to waste some time, he took us straight to the target, which was enough to fail him on this particular [deleted] course [/deleted] [inserted] exercise. [/inserted]
While stationed at Shepherd's Grave, Jack Gambell and I decided to purchase an old Morris 8 Saloon for £50 at a garage in Bury St Edmunds. The car really was `clapped ' and [deleted] s [/deleted] had a hole in the roof [deleted] of [/deleted] [inserted] on [/inserted] the right hand front corner, and when it rained your legs got wet. It also consumed a large amount of engine oil. [inserted] and this was an indication of pending expensive repairs [/inserted] I taught Jack to drive on this car; and he took it home on his first leave from HC unit. Really speaking, the car served its purpose very well as Shepherd's Grove was way out in the sticks. [inserted] and we needed some transport. [/inserted]
The next car I bought was a Triumph Dolomite [inserted] ( [/inserted] Open Tourer [inserted] ) [/inserted]. This was in Littleport. I paid £50 for it from the next door neighbour of Mrs Leicester where we went quite regularly for a slap up meal. She always had plenty of eggs on the menu and made good Yorkshire puddings. Many of our Australian and New Zealand crews [inserted] also [/inserted] met here. The first time I took the Dolomite out, it caught fire [deleted] . [/deleted] I got the wiring behind the dash panel renewed on the camp [inserted] at Mildenhall [/inserted] by a corporal from the MT section. I took this car back to Coventry several times, [inserted] and [/inserted] On one particularly cold winter's day, I was just outside Daventry on my way to [inserted] Coventry [/inserted] to see Mary, when coming towards me on the wrong side of the road was a huge Scammell truck. Apparently, the driver was having difficulty getting up the hill [inserted] in the slippery conditions [/inserted] and had [deleted] chosen [/deleted] [inserted] decided [/inserted] to to try the right hand side [inserted] of the road [/inserted] . I couldn't stop because of the ice and snow on the road, and didn't want to hit the lorry, so chose to turn into the left hand hedge and a deep ditch! The car turned over and I was left upside down in the ditch. Fortunately, I was unhurt and my car was pulled out and put back on its wheels and I drove on my way. I didn't even take the offending vehicle's registration number. However, I found
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that the steering was damaged, due to bent track rods and had difficulty getting to Coventry where it was easily repaired.
I took this car with me to Feltwell and Mildenhall, but in the meantime, I had acquired a Hillman Minx, which was being sold cheap on the squadron by a F/Lt Parker. I must mention that second hand cars on the squadron were plentiful, and it was customary when crews were shot down and killed, for these vehicles to be auctioned off on the station. The Hillman saloon proved to be the best car I had purchased to date, and in it I covered a few thousand miles. I remember deciding to paint it blue while on leave in Coventry, but after hand painting it, it started to rain. What a mess! Mary's father finally got it resprayed for £20 in grey and it looked quite presentable. I kept it until the end of the war.
The Triumph Dolomite was not used much in Mildenhall as I had two cars, and one night my two gunners stole it. They drove to Littleport where the steering broke and it was finally left on the side of the road for several weeks. I finally arranged for it to be towed back by the army. The towing vehicle was a Matilda tank, and by the time it reached our base, it was a complete wreck and ready for the scrap heap.
I duly finished my heavy bomber conversion Stirling course at 1657 Shepherd's Grove on Ist September 1944. We all went through to a Lanc finishing School at Feltwell on 14th September 1944 and I did some 12 hours 50 minutes Conversion Course on Lancasters. We found the Lancaster comparatively easy after the Stirling.
On completion of the Lancaster course, I was posted to No 622 Squadron at Mildenhall, where I completed further exercises in fighter affiliation, air firing and bombing before going on to actual operations. I started full operations on 23rd September 1944.
The first trip I made was a flight with F/Lt Orton to Duisburg in the Ruhr. This procedure was followed on all operational squadrons as it was felt that the pilot required some actual operational experience before taking a complete crew over Germany. It must be mentioned that F/Lt Orton did not do many more sorties after this, and was shot down and killed along with his crew.
I did several more flying exercises in Mildenhall consisting of cross country flights, loaded climbs with full bomb load, fighter affiliation etc., before taking my complete crew over Germany. It was during these exercises that my navigator Sergeant Jack O'Toole was assessed to be incapable of navigating with the accuracy required for operations, and was `washed out.' I was therefore without a navigator for some time.
I was very lucky in Mildenhall to quickly find another suitable navigator, namely Sam Berry, as most of the spare people were doubtful
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characters, who had either come off operations because of illness, or because of other navigational discrepancies. Sam Berry was a Flight/Lieutenant and was of Indian descent. He had been taken off operations because of being ill, and had at one time been suspected of having tuberculosis. During the time he was in hospital, his original crew who were Canadian, had been shot down and killed. He was a Fl/Lt when I met him and I was a Fl/ Sergeant, but I was in charge of my aircraft, so he was obliged to carry out my orders.
Sam flew eleven operations with me before being seriously wounded on a trip to Homberg in the Ruhr on the 8th November 1944. we were flying in aircraft `L' Love. This was the nearest I got to being shot down, although we had various damage [inserted] s [/inserted] on all flights over Germany, mainly due to the accuracy of their anti aircraft fire. The Germans knew that we would normally be flying in at heights between 18 20,000 feet, and they would put up what we would call a `box barrage' between these heights , and obviously they had to hit something or somebody. As a matter of interest, I will describe what really happened on this particular visit to Homberg.
I remember remarking to Jack Gambell, my bomb aimer, that there was a very dark cloud over to our starboard side, and of course, he immediately replied that this was our target and that we would be turning right into it in exactly one minute. He was, of course, right, because the next thing I knew was a big bang and we were on fire caused by a direct hit on the starboard inner engine and aircraft fuselage. Sammy, who was sitting directly behind me at his navigating table, was of course hit in the back by shrapnel. By the time Bill Ralph had got to him, it was after we had cleared the target and he was bleeding [inserted] and [/inserted] in a bad way. My starboard inner engine [inserted] had been [/inserted] [deleted] was [/deleted] on fire. [inserted] And in [/inserted] [deleted] In [/deleted] addition, my windscreen in front of me was smashed, and in the panic, I gave instructions to my engineer to feather the starboard inner engine and stand by. Bill Ralph, my flight engineer, feathered the wrong engine, and consequently we were obliged to fly as accurately as possible over the target area on the remaining good engines, and this proved to be very difficult with an aircraft that was fully loaded with bombs and flight crew. However, we managed after losing about 2000 feet in height, and began to assess the damage. As already mentioned, my windscreen had been completely shattered, and the glass had fallen down and cut my face a little bit, but it was not serious. My mid upper gunner had suffered similar injuries in his turret. Fortunately, we all played our part in getting out of this serious situation, and Bill Ralph who had experience in first aid, managed to get Sammy to the bed which was available a mid ships. Sam was awarded an immediate D.F.C. and I was assured that mine would come later.
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My first priority was to keep the aircraft flying and try to get Sammy comfortable. It was not possible, however, to stop his bleeding, and my next consideration had to be to get down as quickly as possible on to an aerodrome on the English coast. I chose Woodbridge emergency aerodrome situated on the east coast, and [deleted] o [/deleted] after considerable difficulty [inserted] in [/inserted] getting the undercarriage down and locked, I made a reasonably good landing, despite having a further two engines pack up on the approach. Fire engines and ambulances were awaiting our arrival as we had called the station up in advance and Sammy was rushed to hospital for emergency treatment. We were all examined by the station medical officer and were all back in Mildenhall soon afterwards. My aircraft was written off, and I was obliged to fly the Lancaster that picked us up, back to base. This procedure was always adopted on our squadron whenever air crews had been involved in such actions or flying accidents, in order to restore their confidence. I was later informed that I could not have reached my home base, had I decided to remain with my original aircraft.
I didn't get my DFC until after I had left the Squadron in Mildenhall, although I had been told unofficially that I was to get the award [inserted] . [/inserted] [deleted] and could wear the ribband [sic] [/deleted] . This information was given to me by the Squadron adjutant, who contacted me at Chipping Warden, and was also confirmed by Sammy my old navigator, who had by this time returned to Mildenhall after his hospitalisation, and was working at the base headquarters. [deleted] Also n [/deleted] [inserted] N [/inserted] ormally, it would have been presented by the King, but at this time he was very ill and the medal was sent by registered post with a personal letter with his signature. I also received a letter of congratulation from the Beaumaris Town Clerk and Town Council.
I went on with my crew to complete our tour of 33 operations, which finished on 22nd February 1945. I did not fly with Sammy again after the eleventh operation and had to fly with many spare navigators who were floating around the squadron, and this was not very easy as some of them were pretty awful. One in particular Fl/Sgt McKay got me lost over Germany on a trip to Leipzig and we got back very late and had been given up as `missing' on operations. [deleted] Fl/ [/deleted] McKay proved to be a complete nervous wreck and mentally unstable. Whatever happened to him afterwards, I could not say, but I believe he was assessed as LMF (Lack of moral fibre)
I must say at that time, I had no regrets about bombing Germany, as they were bombing us and I just wanted to return the compliment.
Flying conditions over the continent, particularly during the winter, were the cause of many flying accidents and frequently many crews did not find their target. They were initially obliged to depend on D.R. Navigation (dead reckoning). The inaccuracy of aircraft instruments and in many instances lack of flying experience….. [inserted] also took their toll. [/inserted]
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[arrow headed line down left hand side of page]
Finding the target depended on evading the enemy fighter [inserted] s [/inserted], and ack ack anti aircraft barrages and searchlights which were particularly fierce in the Ruhr and around all the main towns and cities. As mentioned, navigation depended on D.R navigation initially, and later on new equipment such as radar [inserted] – [/inserted] GEE, G.H and [deleted] H25 and also [/deleted] [inserted] H2S increased accuracy [/inserted] …… Target marking was also important as Jerry often jammed radar and radio equipment. Added to this when flying through a cold frontsome [sic] of the flying instruments ie pilot head, although electronically heated, froze solid and this meant that we had no airspeed indicator or altimeter, and the ice that built up on the leading edges of the wings and on the [inserted] airscrews [/inserted] ………..used to come adrift and crash against the fuselage, which was very disconcerting, and when experienced for the first time, the noise was frightening. [inserted] T [/inserted] [deleted] t [/deleted] owards the end of the war, the main bombing force was assisted by Pathfinders, a specially trained force who marked the target in various ways, again depending on the prevailing weather as sometimes we bombed through cloud and with the GH equipment, we …:[inserted] were able [/inserted] [deleted] with this equipment [/deleted] to bomb to within 50 yards which was considered to be a direct hit.
There were occasions when bombs got iced up on the bomb racks due to the cold, and these dropped into the bomb bay when we descended to a lower altitude, usually after leaving th target. The ruling was that in an emergency bombs would be dropped "safe" in certain areas ie the Wash and the Channel but we had to drop all our load in or on enemy territory. We would not land with a bomb rolling about in the bomb bay, and in such cases where we were concerned, a secondary target was chosen on the return route.
Prior to any raid, day or night, there were many regulations and procedures to be followed. First of all security on the bomber stations was strict, but even so, it often happened that the people ` [deleted] dwn [/deleted] [inserted] down in [/inserted] the village' knew what was going on. Battle orders were drawn up usually each morning upon receipt of instructions from Bmber [sic] Command Headquarters. These indicated the names of crews affected, the target to be attacked numbers of aircraft taking part. All arrangements for bomb load, rations, fuelling aircraft and briefings of aircrew members, were given to the various sections pilots, navigators bomb aimers, gunners were briefed by their section leaders, and a general final briefing was given by the squadron C.O. and senior staff. A little later, after this general briefing, we were taken out with all our kit to our individual aircraft to carry' out further checks and await take off time. Radio silence was strictly adhered to, and orders to take off were given by means of Aldis lamp or signal cartridge from the control tower. A limited amount of time was taken for take off and taxiing and all aircraft were checked
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[page break]
and lined up ready for departure. Timing was , of course, all important as all aircraft had t [sic] bomb and clear the target spot on time and on the appointed compass heading to avoid collisions. We usually bombed from 18000 to 20000feet and reduced height by 8000 immediately after releasing our bombs.
I would mention that to ensure we all bombed our target, every aircraft carried a camera in the nose, and a photo flash in the tail portion. When the bomb doors were opened over the target area and the bombs released, the photo flash would be released at the same time, and a photograph taken of the target area. The photographs were scrutinised by our Intelligence Department on our return to base and if anyone had not been to the target, they wanted to know why! This was really a .......method to ensure that we all did our job.
On completion of my operational tour (33 operations), all of my crew were posted as screen instructors to various OTUs in 3 Group. My wireless operator, Fred Charlesworth and myself were posted to Chipping Warden, and I was awarded my DFC on leaving the station. Prior to going there, I did an instructors' course at Silverstone to get me acquaint [inserted] again [/inserted] with [deleted] t [/deleted] Wellington aircraft on which we were instructing. My time in chipping Warden was very restricted and I did very few trips. The war in Europe ended, and many aircrew were then made redundant. I was not asked, but was posted on a Tiger Moth course at Birmingham Airport. I was not very pleased about this. However, whilst on holiday in Beaumaris, I met Lady Megan Lloyd George at a garden party and would mention here, that my father knew her pretty well. When I explained my situation, she promised to do her best to get me into Transport Command. Shortly afterwards, I had a posting, not to Transport command, but to Ferry Command, which was the next best thing, and I did a short course on airspeed Oxfords at [deleted] Boscombe [/deleted] [inserted] Aston [/inserted] Down.
I was then posted to No 5 Ferry pool at Silloth. I flew many different types of aircraft, most of them twin engined and four engined types. On the twin engined aircraft, we carried no crew, but on the four-engined aircraft, we always carried a flight engineer. We were supplied with crystal [inserted] s [/inserted] for the radio transmitter unit and had to tune this equipment ourselves.This was quite an interesting job as we flew all the different types of aircraft arriving on our station. Most of these were taken to the north of Scotland or to Ireland to be put in storage. We were given no instruction on the aircraft we flew. [deleted] We [/deleted] [inserted] But [/inserted] were given a little blue book containing details of all types of aircraft and were obliged to study the respective performance figures prior to take off. Surprisingly, we had only one fatal accident the whole time I was with this unit.
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[page break]
I was demobbed in August 1946, and completed a course for a `B' flying licence, as I intended to do some civilian flying. However, pilots were very plentiful in those days after the war, and there were problems finding a suitable job. Also, there was my high blood pressure which always came to the fore during the regular six monthly medical examinations, so I decided to seek work elsewhere.
First of all, I made a bad mistake and joined the Coventry Police force, serving as a police constable for some twelve months. During this time, I got married, and found the money in those days very tight. I earned £5.00 per week plus a boot allowance, and had to work on shifts. I finally handed in my resignation after twelve months. Again, I experienced considerable difficulty in finding suitable work, as I had no real qualifications apart from flying aircraft.
I finally got work in the Standard Motor Company in Canley. I had no wages for the first year as I was a student. I then went on to Service Reception, and was eventually allocated a territory as a service representative. This territory included the whole of the Midlands, South Wales as afar as Aberystwyth and right across to the Wash and East Anglia. This job entailed being away from home quite a lot. However, there were other advantages, such as having a car which was change [inserted] d [/inserted]. frequently every 10,000 miles, and of course, all the maintenance, insurance and running costs were paid for by the company.
Eventually, I had the opportunity of going abroad, which was a step forward, and an increase in status and salary, so I jumped at this. My first trip abroad was for three months, and included most countries in Europe and North Africa plus a visit to the oil wells of the Middle East which were at that time operating the Standard Vanguard. On my return,a great deal of service reorganisation and company changes were taking place, and I was posted on a permanent basis with my family to Brussels in the 1950s. This again, meant a great deal of time being spent away from home, and although Brussels was a very good centre, the job, to say the least was a little bit inconvenient, and threw a lot of extra work on my wife Mary.
After three years, I was again recalled to the United Kingdom [inserted] because of reorganisation [/inserted] and given the territory comprising Spain, Portugal, all of North Africa, as far as Angola and the Belgian Congo, and the Mediterranean countries as far south as Egypt. These changes of territory were taking place the whole time I was with British Leyland, and I finally ended up with a territory comprising the whole of Asia, Australasia, south America, central America and the Caribbean. This meant going round the world practically every time I did a trip. For this, I was promoted to Service Executive, and awarded an increase in salary for the extra responsibility and inconvenience involved. However, it meant a lot more work for Mary and
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[page break
the children. With all the problems it caused at home, the move was not really worth it, but work was difficult in those days.
I finally finished up at Land Rover at Solihull. I had by that time completed 33 years service with the company which was then known as British Leyland. The final crunch came when I had reported sick with prostate gland trouble. I was instructed by the company to get the operation completed quickly and they would pay all my expenses. This I did, but the company did not want to pay, and I finally had to foot the costs myself. I was in BUPA, but because I had previously had similar problems, they refused to accept the expenses involved.
I felt that the company had let me down, and even the trade union to which I belonged was useless. I felt that nobody had appreciated my effort s over the past years and I got out as quickly as I could. I did manage to buy my company car - a Dolomite Sprint at a special price. Apart from that the company paid nothing and the pension in those days was extremely poor by today's standards.
I would also mention that life during my working days in the motor trade was extremely precarious, as the unions were always going on strike and fighting for better conditions and better wages, but the quality of the final product was poor, and often disgusting. As a consequence, our sales, in overseas markets in particular, suffered. This deterioration became more noticeable in later years. The people in top management were most incompetent, and got their jobs not because of what they knew, but because of who they knew.
During my whole service with Standard Motor Company, Land Rover, and British Leyland, I can only remember going on strike once, and I vowed I would not do it again regardless of the consequences. It was a waste of time and money.
On retirement, Mary and I went to live in Portugal. We had a nice little two bedroomed villa situated some 3 km from Tavira, in a kind of cul de sac. We had all facilities including a swimming pool measuring some 8 x 4 metres. Most of the neighbours were English, and we got on with them all very well. We carried out various modifications during our time there including converting the top floor into a self contained flat with full facilities and capable of accommodating 3 4 people. This flatlet opened on to a flat tiled roof and overlooked the swimming pool. We were very happy living there although we did find the medical expenses there. high, and had always feared the day when we might need to pay for expensive medical treatment and hospitalisation.
We were very happy, until Mary became very ill with lung cancer and on her return to the UK, died after only two weeks in Walsgrave Hospital where she was receiving treatment. Unfortunately, she had a bad fall in the hospital ward just prior to her death and smashed all her front
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teeth, and was badly bruised. I often wonder how much this fall affected her life span, and sometimes wish that I had complained more to the hospital authorities.
However, Mary had been a heavy smoker all her life. She would not go to see the doctor because I do believe she knew what he was going to say. Being sick in Portugal was very costly, and I am sure she was avoiding medical attention over there because of the conditions and expenses involved. Being back in the UK would have improved her chances of survival, but I feel that she had left it too late to do anything about her problem.
When Mary died, my real life seemed to end and can never be the same again. She was wonderful, always so kind and considerate, not only to me but to everybody she met. Everybody I have spoken to held her in very high esteem. I feel that my life is over now and if it wasn't for my children and grandchildren, I don't think my life would be worth living. They have all been truly wonderful.
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WKT Memoirs revised Feb 2005
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
If you can't take a joke...
Description
An account of the resource
A detailed account of Ken Thomas's life from his early years at school, through his ground crew technical training followed by his aircrew training, operational tour, short post war service and his civilian career, he revised the account in 2005.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ken Thomas
Date
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2005-02
Format
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19 typewritten pages
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BThomasWKthomasWKv10001 to 10019
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Conforms To
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Pending review
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Contributor
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Peter Bradbury
David Bloomfield
16 OTU
1657 HCU
622 Squadron
84 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
Anson
Battle
Blenheim
briefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
flight mechanic
Flying Training School
Fw 190
Gee
ground crew
H2S
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Me 109
mechanics engine
military service conditions
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
perception of bombing war
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Cranage
RAF Desborough
RAF Feltwell
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hednesford
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Paignton
RAF Penrhos
RAF Shepherds Grove
RAF Silloth
RAF Silverstone
RAF South Cerney
RAF Stradishall
RAF Torquay
RAF Upper Heyford
sanitation
Stirling
strafing
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/315/15275/LPayneAJ1315369v1.1.pdf
90d2332a7f81b01d7511af5b65d85690
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Payne, Alan
Alan John Payne
Alan J Payne
Alan Payne
A J Payne
A Payne
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Alan John Payne DFC (1315369 and 173299 Royal Air Force) and his log book. He completed 18 operations as a bomb aimer with 630 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Payne, AJ
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Alan Payne’s South African Air Force observers or air gunners log book
Description
An account of the resource
South African Air Force observers or air gunners log book for Alan John Payne, navigator, covering the period from 7 November 1942 to 8 August 1946. Detailing his flying training, operations flown, instructor duties and post war squadron duties. He was stationed at RAF Torquay, RAF Eastbourne, RAF Brighton, RAF West Kirby, Queenstown, Port Alfred, RAF Dumfries, RAF Turweston, RAF Silverstone, RAF Winthorpe, RAF East Kirkby, RAF Husbands Bosworth, RAF Llandwrog, RAF Saltby, RAF Matching, RAF Great Dunmow, RAF Aqir and RAF Cairo West. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Oxford, Botha, Wellington, Lancaster, Halifax and C-47. He flew a total of 18 night operations with 630 Squadron. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Probert and Flight Lieutenant McDonald. Targets were, Berlin, Stettin, Brunswick, Magdeburg, Stuttgart, Clermont-Ferrand, Frankfurt, Nuremberg, Tours, Maille, Amiens and Kiel Bay. This was followed by glider, troop carrying duties and Prisoner of War transport with 620 Squadron. The log book also contains a menu from 10 February 1943 with signatures of those on the course.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LPayneAJ1315369v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
France
Germany
Great Britain
Middle East--Palestine
Poland
South Africa
Atlantic Ocean--Kiel Bay
Egypt--Cairo
England--Devon
England--Essex
England--Leicestershire
England--Merseyside
France--Amiens
France--Clermont-Ferrand
France--Tours
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Stuttgart
Middle East--Palestine
Poland--Szczecin
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
South Africa--Queenstown
Wales--Gwynedd
France--Maillé
North Africa
England--Sussex
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1943-12-02
1943-12-03
1943-12-04
1943-12-29
1943-12-30
1944-01-01
1944-01-02
1944-01-05
1944-01-06
1944-01-14
1944-01-15
1944-01-20
1944-01-21
1944-01-22
1944-01-27
1944-01-28
1944-01-30
1944-01-31
1944-02-15
1944-02-19
1944-02-20
1944-02-21
1944-02-24
1944-02-25
1944-02-26
1944-03-01
1944-03-02
1944-03-10
1944-03-11
1944-03-15
1944-03-16
1944-03-18
1944-03-19
1944-03-30
1944-03-31
1944-04-20
1944-04-21
1944-04-22
1944-04-23
1944-04-24
1944-04-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-04-29
1944-04-30
1944-05-01
1944-05-02
1944-05-03
1944-05-04
1944-05-07
1944-05-08
1944-05-19
1944-05-20
1944-05-21
1944-05-22
1661 HCU
1665 HCU
17 OTU
620 Squadron
630 Squadron
85 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
Botha
C-47
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Lancaster
Me 109
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
prisoner of war
RAF Aqir
RAF Dumfries
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Saltby
RAF Silverstone
RAF Torquay
RAF Turweston
RAF Winthorpe
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/734/16285/LCattyMA164193v2.2.pdf
8ef7f9ecc4da1e7d48bbd7c4e504e2c2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Catty, Martin Arthur
M A Catty
Description
An account of the resource
19 items. An oral history interview with Martin Catty (b. 1923, 1802887, 164193 Royal Air Force), log books, photographs, service documents, maps, and folders containing navigation and Gee charts. He flew operations as a navigator with 514 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Martin Catty and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Catty, MA
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Martin Catty's Royal Canadian Air Force flying log book for aircrew other than pilot. Two
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Canadian Air Force flying log book for aircrew other than pilot for M A Catty, covering the period from 15 October 1943 to 21 September 1946. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying duties. He was stationed at RCAF Winnipeg, RAF Llandwrog, RAF Benson, RAF Chedburgh, RAF Waterbeach, RAF Dunkeswell, RAF Feltwell, RAF Melbourne and RAF Bramcote. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington III and X, Stirling, Lancaster I and III, Oxford, Halifax, B-24 and C-47. He flew a total of 40 operations with 514 squadron, 30 daylight and 10-night operations. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Ness. Targets were, Bottrop, Homberg, Solingen, Koblenz, Kastrop-Rauxel, Dortmund, Heinsburg, Oberhausen, Merseburg, Duisberg, Witten, Siegen, Trier, Cologne, Wohwinkel, Neuss, Krefeld, Munchen-Gladbach, Wiesbaden, Hohenbudburg, Chemnitz, Wesel, Gelsenkirchen, Reckling Hausen and Hamm. One Operation Exodus sortie is recorded.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LCattyMA164193v2
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Devon
England--Norfolk
England--Oxfordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Warwickshire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Castrop-Rauxel
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamm (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Homberg (Kassel)
Germany--Koblenz
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Recklinghausen (Münster)
Germany--Siegen
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Trier
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wiesbaden
Germany--Witten
Manitoba--Winnipeg
Wales--Gwynedd
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Heinsberg (Heinsberg)
Manitoba
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
1944-10-31
1944-11-02
1944-11-05
1944-11-06
1944-11-07
1944-11-11
1944-11-15
1944-11-18
1944-11-20
1944-11-21
1944-12-04
1944-12-07
1944-12-08
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-16
1944-12-21
1944-12-22
1944-12-28
1944-12-31
1945-01-01
1945-01-02
1945-01-03
1945-01-05
1945-01-06
1945-01-07
1945-01-22
1945-01-23
1945-01-28
1945-01-29
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-04
1945-02-09
1945-02-10
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-16
1945-02-18
1945-02-28
1945-03-10
1945-03-12
1945-03-17
1945-03-20
1945-03-23
1945-03-27
1945-04-04
1945-04-05
1945-05-18
12 OTU
1653 HCU
514 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
B-24
bombing
C-47
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
navigator
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Benson
RAF Bramcote
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Dunkeswell
RAF Feltwell
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Melbourne
RAF Waterbeach
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/977/20854/LMarriottMW1627148v1.1.pdf
604f5c0575cf7bea583e18d4eff516e1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Marriott, Maurice William
M W Marriott
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Sergeant Maurice Marriott (b. 1924, 1627148 Royal Air Force). He flew as a navigator with 194, 96 and 110 Squadrons.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Maurice Marriott and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Marriott, MW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Maurice Marriott's flying log book for aircrew other than pilot
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for aircrew other than pilot for M W Marriott, navigator, covering the period from 6 May 1944 to 12 June 1947. Detailing his flying training and post war flying duties with 194, 96 and 110 squadrons. He was stationed at RCAF Rivers, RAF Llandwrog, RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, RAF Wigsley, RAF Leicester East, RAF Ibsley, RAF Mingaladon and RAF Hmawbi. Aircraft flown in were Anson, Wellington, Lancaster, Oxford and C-47.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LMarriottMW1627148v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Burma
Canada
Great Britain
Burma--Moʻ pī
Burma--Yangon (Division)
England--Hampshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Worcestershire
Manitoba--Brandon Region
Wales--Gwynedd
Manitoba
Manitoba--Rivers
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
110 Squadron
1654 HCU
21 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
C-47
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Leicester East
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Wigsley
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/921/22837/LLawsonHA19210824v1.2.pdf
0b31cd5f1a7f8dc2383468fbb1e58e6e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lawson, Homer
Harold Lawson
H Lawson
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. An oral history interview with Susanne Pescott about her father, Flight Lieutenant Harold Lawson DFC (b. 1921, 1544881, 177469 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs and album. He flew operations as a navigator with 10 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susanne Pescott and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lawson, HA
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Homer Lawson’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for H A Lawson, navigator, covering the period from 19 January 1943 to 2 November 1945. Detailing his flying training, operations flown, instructor duties and post war duties with 77 squadron. He was stationed at RAF Llandwrog, RAF Penrhos, RAF Forres, RAF Rufforth, RAF Melbourne, RAF Balmageith, RAF Kinloss, RAF Full Sutton, RAF Broadwell, RAF Kargi Road and RAF Mauripur. Aircraft flown in were Anson, Whitley, Halifax, Wellington and Dakota. He flew a total of 38 operations with 10 squadron, 6 daylight and 32 night. His pilot on operations was Flight Sergeant Hewitt. Targets were Berlin, Kiel, Meulan le Meureaux, La Rochelle, Trappes, Le Mans, Tergnier, Ottignes, Dusseldorf, Karlsruhe, Essen, Mantes-Gassicourt, Cherbourg, Berneval, Trouville, Ferme D’Urville, The Hague, Mont Fleurie, St Lo, Lorient, Brest, Douai, Rennes, Noyelle en Chausee, Blaineville, Blainville, St Martin L’Hortier, Croixdalle, Heligoland, Mont Candon, Vaires and Bottrop.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LLawsonHA19210824v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Germany
Netherlands
India
Pakistan
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
Belgium--Ottignies
England--Oxfordshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Abbeville Region
France--Bayeux
France--Berneval-le-Grand
France--Brest
France--Cherbourg Region
France--Coutances Region
France--Douai
France--La Rochelle
France--Le Mans
France--Lorient
France--Mantes-la-Jolie
France--Meulan
France--Neufchâtel-en-Bray
France--Normandy
France--Rambouillet
France--Rennes
France--Saint-Lô
France--Tergnier (Canton)
France--Trouville-sur-Mer
France--Vaires-sur-Marne
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Helgoland
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Kiel
India--Kota
Netherlands--Hague
Pakistan--Karachi
Wales--Gwynedd
Scotland--Moray Firth
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Croixdalle
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1943-12-29
1943-12-30
1944-01-29
1944-02-25
1944-03-02
1944-03-03
1944-03-04
1944-03-06
1944-03-07
1944-03-08
1944-03-11
1944-04-04
1944-04-05
1944-04-10
1944-04-11
1944-04-18
1944-04-19
1944-04-20
1944-04-21
1944-04-22
1944-04-23
1944-04-24
1944-04-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-05-06
1944-05-08
1944-05-09
1944-05-10
1944-05-11
1944-05-12
1944-06-01
1944-06-02
1944-06-03
1944-06-04
1944-06-06
1944-06-07
1944-06-09
1944-06-10
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-24
1944-06-27
1944-06-28
1944-06-29
1944-07-01
1944-07-04
1944-07-06
1944-07-12
1944-07-13
1944-07-17
1944-07-18
1944-07-20
10 Squadron
1663 HCU
19 OTU
77 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
C-47
Cook’s tour
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
mine laying
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Full Sutton
RAF Kinloss
RAF Llandwrog
Raf Mauripur
RAF Melbourne
RAF Penrhos
RAF Rufforth
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/921/22838/MLawsonHA19210824-161128-010001.2.jpg
7d5853423cff8969f16f988347b5708a
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/921/22838/MLawsonHA19210824-161128-010002.2.jpg
ef4f261230d3213b11f9f1759cbc64d1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lawson, Homer
Harold Lawson
H Lawson
Description
An account of the resource
Ten items. An oral history interview with Susanne Pescott about her father, Flight Lieutenant Harold Lawson DFC (b. 1921, 1544881, 177469 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs and album. He flew operations as a navigator with 10 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Susanne Pescott and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lawson, HA
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined] HAROLD “HOMER” LAWSON [/underlined]
24.8.21 – Born Salford
22.9.41 – Signed to Join RAF. (see Letter)
19.1.43 – 13.4.43 – Training as Navigator @ Llanwrog [sic] (now Caernarfon Airport)
- Flying Anson’s 93 HRS
19.4.43 – Qualified as Navigator
8.6.43 – 19.8.43 - Based RAF Forres Scotland & Kinloss 19 OUT Met up with Crew & Pilot [underlined] Johnny Howitt [/underlines] Flying Anson & Whitley’s 105 HRS
25.09.43 – 20.10.43 – 1662 Conversion Unit @ Rufforth Yorks Flying Halifax MKII’s 33 HRS
5.11.43 – 20.7.44 – 10 Scon Melbourne 38 Opp’s Ist Completed Tour Flying Halifax MK II & MK III’s 170 HRS “OLRAM”
[underlined] Key Events [/underlined]
*29/12/43 – Ist Opp’s Berlin – Shot Down JU88
* /4/44 – Dusseldorf & Essen – Caught in Search Lights
*6/5/44 – Mantes/Gassicourt – Attack by Fighter
*** D DAY 6.6.44 – 2.55 am Mout Hevry gun Battery 22.30 – ST10 @2000ft.
*15.6.44 – Rennes Combat with JU88 Port Engine of Fire.
*24.6.44 – Noyelle En Chausee – Engine Problems featured
*25.6.44 – Baineville – [underlined] 3 Combats [/underlined] 1 ME210 Destroyed
*20.7.44 – Blothrop - Ammo Tracks on Fire
15.8.44 – 14.9.44 Forres & Scotland Flying Ansons 10 HRS
[Page Break]
6.11.45 – 18.2.45 – RAF Kinloss Scotland 19OTU Flying Wellington’s 14 HRS
*November 1944 – Awarded ‘DFC’
8.4.45- 2.5.45 – RAF Ruffoth 1663 Conversion Unit Flying Halifax III 40 HRS. Bombing and Fighting Affiliation.
[underlined] Moved to 77 Sqn [/underlined]
6.5.45 – 8.8.45 – Full Sutton (Yorks ) Met new crew – Pilot Pickin. Fling Halifax VI & Dekota’s [sic]56HRS
*Circuits & Bombs/Bomb Jettisoning/Formation Flying
5.9.45 – 12.9.45 – Broadwell Flying Dakota’s 7.5 HRS
*Supply dropping/Glider Towing/Formation Flying
22.9.45 - ? Transits to India & Based in Mauripur Kashmir Flying Dakotas
*Came home and returned to old employer
*Married ‘Maureen Chilun’ 31.12.55 Great Ballroom Dancer’s Dancing @ Tower Ballroom, Blackpool
*Died to early 12.9.75
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Homer Lawson's Biography
Description
An account of the resource
The story of Homer Lawson from birth in August 1921 to death in September 1975. He trained as a Navigator in Wales and in Scotland before converting to Halifaxes in Yorkshire. He completed 38 operations then returned to Scotland for more training. Then he was transferred back to Yorkshire flying Halifaxes and C-47s after the war.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MLawsonHA19210824-161128-010001,
MLawsonHA19210824-161128-010002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Scotland--Forres
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Essen
France--Rennes
France--Normandy
Germany--Düsseldorf
England--Salford (Greater Manchester)
France--Mantes-la-Jolie
France
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Lancashire
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Claire Monk
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
10 Squadron
1662 HCU
1663 HCU
19 OTU
77 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
C-47
Distinguished Flying Cross
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Full Sutton
RAF Kinloss
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Melbourne
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Rufforth
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1418/25208/PMackayWJ1501.2.jpg
bac5d489d01fcbabd6b139b45b8ea409
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1418/25208/AMackayWJ150527.2.mp3
fade94a1fbdc51da1006bfe0f8d75e48
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mackay, Jeff
William Jeffrey Mackay
W J Mackay
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Mackay, WJ
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Jeff Mackay (b. 1922). He flew operations as a navigator with 460 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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My, my name is Jeff Mackay. William Jeffery actually and I was born in 1922 in Ballarat, Victoria in Australia. My parents were Australian although my father was of Scottish ancestry and my mother English ancestry and we, born in Ballarat but I really grew up in suburban Melbourne, a suburb known as Caulfield where I went through the normal education process. I went to the local state school and later to Melbourne High School and at the age of sixteen I started working as a cadet engineer in a local suburban council as a, as a cadet engineer. By the, the war broke out in 1939 after I’d been working about six months and the, after a few months I joined the Army and found myself driving trucks in Southern Victoria until the Japanese entered the war in nineteen, on December the 7th 1941 when the situation in Australia changed and people who were, went in to the Army and Navy et cetera voluntarily it became more of a compulsory effort because of the threat of the Japanese. So, after a short break I joined the RAAF and found myself being trained for aircrew although at the time a cousin, a New Zealand cousin of mine who was in Britain wrote to my mother and said, ‘I’ve heard that Jeff has joined the Air Force. Tell him on no account to get in to Bomber Command if he can help it.’ But of course, once I was in the Air Force I I had no option. I had to go where I was sent. The, so we trained at the, in Sydney and at the end of our training they split the number of trainees in to, some were being sent to fly in northern Australia and the other fifty percent were sent to Canada to train to fly in Europe. So as, as it happened I was in the section to go to Europe and before long I found myself in a boat called the, I’ve forgotten temporarily the name of the boat but it was loaded with German Afrika Korps troops in the holds who’d been captured at El Alemein and were taken to prison camps in America to be incarcerated for the rest of the war. We had been sailing out of New Zealand away across the Pacific. It wasn’t long before the German Africa Korps members who were being led, led up on deck morning and afternoon for a period for air began jumping overboard and this was a cause of concern. I suppose in total there were probably about a dozen of these troops who didn’t, who were reluctant to go to America. Probably because of their Nazi training. But the German commandant approached the captain of the ship and asked if anything could be done to stop this. So it was the advice to, the idea was that they’d have a concert in the holds of the ship and the call went out to the Australian recruits who were being taken to Canada to be trained. The call went out did anyone have musical instruments they could lend to the Germans to put on this concert? As it happened, I had been learning the steel guitar shortly before I left, I joined the Air Force and I was taking along this steel guitar with me so I I said yes. Well, they could borrow my steel guitar and there were several other members amongst the Aussies who had different musical instruments. They offered to make these available. So in due course the Germans arranged the concert and they invited any, anyone who had lent them a musical instrument to come along as guests. Well, this was early in 1943 at a time when the German, the German enemy was regarded as such and the five or six other blokes who came with me to the concert which was in the bowels of the ship we went down and the Germans had arranged a raised stand for us to stand on at the back of the, the back of all the troops. There must have been in all about three or four thousand who were closely guarded. But the, the concert went on. One song I remember was Lily, “Lily Marlene”, which was played and sung by some of the German troops and it was remarkably good quality. It stuck in my mind for a while. But at any rate we, at that time as the German was the enemy a few of them were turning around and looking at us and funny looks, a few of them grinned at us because the, I suppose they were glad to have us. It was a change from just being locked up. But the concert passed without them bashing us up and we were glad to get back to our, our end of the ship. But it was an interesting little incident on the way over. Another, another incident that happened with the German prisoners while we were sailing across the Pacific was the British troops who had been guarding them since they were brought round from North Africa were getting a bit sick of their job and they thought that some of the Australian trainees should have a turn at guarding the troops. So, as it happened I was given the opportunity to guard, to stand in the mess room when they came through to eat in the morning and afternoon and I was stationed up at the one end of this vast old, vast dining hall where the, where they came. Now, they gave me a sten gun which I’d never handled before. And I was standing at one end and there were several other Aussies along the walls of the hall and the, while the, when the troops were coming up the stairs and pouring in to the room I thought gee I don’t want to shoot any of them, I’d better uncock this gun which I used to do with my P rifle on the farm. But when I tried to uncock it it had a much stronger spring than the little P rifle I used to have and so the gun started going off and I I sprayed the walls and ceiling before eventually it stopped. By this time there was panic in the dining hall and the Germans, some of them had been trying to get out. But I was grabbed by the, we had, actually it was a Dutch boat, the Niew Amsterdam was the name and I was grabbed and marched off and the sten gun taken off me. Taken back to explain why the gun, why I had done this and I was put in the brig for a day in punishment. But those are the incidents which stuck in my mind and the sort of thing that happened [coughs] pardon me. When we got to America and did our, did our training as navigators in the plains of Winnipeg. Around Winnipeg and Minnesota. That was another experience. And when that was completed we were put on the ship for a quick race across the Atlantic on a ship with a name, I can’t recall that either at the moment. But we were crammed in this boat and they relied on speed to get us across so that German submarines wouldn’t get us. So [coughs] pardon me. We, by the, by the time we reached Britain we were put in, Britain was in the middle of the war. Our first impression on getting to Britain was how pale everybody was with the lack of sunshine and that’s the remaining impression I had. But it wasn’t long before we were marshalled in the, separated in to the different groups depending on what we were, we were intended, what was intended for us and we went through the process of advanced flying. Learning to fly under British conditions from a, an aerodrome in North Wales at a place called Llandwrog. From there we were processed to a place in Staffordshire called Hixon where the different category, trained as navigators, gunners who’d trained as gunners et cetera et cetera. We were all brought together at this aerodrome in, at Hixon and formed in to bomber crews. The process consisted, I was approached by a rather dapper looking fella with a, not very big in stature but very self-confident in the air and he said, he came up to me and said, ‘Are you Mackay?’ And I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Well, we’re forming a bomber crew. I’ve got a gunner, I’ve got two gunners and a wireless operator. Would you be interested in joining the crew as a navigator?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ It was a time of quick decisions. I glanced at him and the others and said, ‘Yes. Yes. I’ll, that’ll do, I’ll join.’ So he took me over and introduced me to the other members of the crew. One, one was a, one gunner, the mid-upper gunner was a thirty year old ex-taxi driver from Sydney. A tough looking bloke who played in the front line of a rugby team in his spare time and, well actually he was the mid-upper gunner. The rear gunner was a nineteen year old boy from, Snowy Johnson from Perth. The wireless operator was a, another young fella, about twenty from Sydney, Logger Dowling. The bomb aimer was a Scotsman with another little black moustache from Glasgow. And there was me. That was the six. Six of us. The captain said, ‘Right. Well, we don’t know each other. To get to know each other we’ll go down to the pub tonight.’ So, before, the taxi driver looked at me and said, oh, you know, ‘Do you drink?’ and I said, ‘No. No. I don’t drink.’ ‘Do you smoke?’ I said, ‘No. I don’t actually smoke either.’ He said, ‘How do you feel about women?’ I said, oh I could see that I was really getting the right answers as far as he was concerned, so I said, ‘Oh, I like women.’ Which I did. So with that he sort of accepted that there was no further worry. He said something like, ‘Oh we don’t want any too good fellas in the crew. They say only the good die young so we need a bit of rough stuff.’ So that was the method of forming a crew and it turned out to be a really good crew. Very laid back, very casual but very loyal to each other in the air so a good crew spirit developed. Well, we went to the pub and I thought I’ll have a drink. There was no, there was never anything really against. So, it was only a little pub in Staffordshire called the Barley Mow and there was only, it was too small place to have many people but in the corner of the, one corner of the bar there was an elderly gentleman with a bowler hat. And there was no, the entertainment, you had to entertain yourself in those days and as I remember it the, the apart from chatting to each other and telling stories the bomb aimer, the Scotsman, the Scots bomb aimer said he could sing. So, we said, ‘Righto, Jock. Well, give us a song.’ And so, Jack, err Jock approached the elderly fellow with the bowler hat and said, ‘I’m going to borrow your bowler hat to give a song.’ And his name was Jasper. I remember it well, and Jasper lent Jock the bowler hat and Jock got up on the table and sang a song. I think was called, “The Wife,” which we all applauded. It wasn’t much of a song but it was a bit of fun and [cough] pardon me. The next night, the next time we went for another drink Jasper was there again with his bowler hat and Jock again borrowed Jasper’s bowler hat to give a song. And we went several more times and each time Jasper would lend a hat and Jock would give his song about the wife and, until the day we were getting near leaving. We told Jasper, ‘Well, we won’t be borrowing Jasper, your hat soon Jasper because we’re being posted to another, another training place and the next night will be our last.’ So on our last night Jasper arrived at the pub with his hat in a brown paper bag and said, ‘Look boys,’ he said, ‘I’ve enjoyed the, your company and the singing.’ He said, ‘Would you take the bowler hat as a keepsake?’ So, the reason I’m telling this story is that that became our sort of talisman that when we were on our bombing trips when we could see the lights of the target ahead the crew would say to the skipper, ‘Have you got the hat on, Tich?’ Who was the pilot’s nickname, and Tich would say, ‘Yes, the hat is now on.’ So we, we would say hello to the target with the skipper, with the bowler hat on his head and we all felt a bit safer. So, it was something and of course we hung on to the bowler hat and it came back to Australia with the skipper who has since died but actually the hat is now in the Australian War Museum in a glass case with a little insignia below explaining the significance of it. So that’s the story of the bowler hat. The, well the, I should say something about our bombing missions that I can think of. One [pause] one occasion which was a bit embarrassing for me was when we were bombing Hamburg on a daylight raid and I had to leave to go to the toilet which was a container at the back of the aircraft. And I I told the skipper over the intercom that I’d have to go back and had to unhook the oxygen supply. I was in a flying suit which had to be lowered down when I went to the toilet and had to reconnect my intercom and when I was there and I reported to the skipper that I was back where I was suddenly the aircraft dropped in a, in a dive which they call a curve of a pursuit which was a manoeuvre that bomb, Lancs had to go in to if they were attacked by enemy aircraft. They would go down in a fast spin off course and go down and then like that and weave and then come up again to get back on course to throw, to make it difficult for the attacking aircraft to hit the bomber. In this case I didn’t know what was happening apart from the fact I was, I was rising off the seat when he went in to the dive and of course when he climbed again I sat down on the seat and stuck to it because it was about minus forty on the metal seat. I remember thinking if I get out of this I’ll never be scared of anything again [laughs] But I got out of it. And later on there were a few smirks on the face of the rest of the crew so, they said that we’d been attacked by a German aircraft but of course, I was in the dark. I couldn’t tell what was happening and I was always a bit suspicious but that was one incident I remember happening. What else should I relate at this? I’m afraid I’m running out of —
PE: If I can just ask you, you really are doing well, Jeff. Thank you for that. If I could ask you a few questions. When did you arrive at Binbrook?
JM: It would be February 1945.
PE: Right.
JM: I remember years.
PE: How many missions did you fly?
JM: Eleven. We flew eleven before the war ended. The last one was at Nuremberg.
PE: Yeah. So, I was, I was going to ask you which, you know where did you fly? Where did you go? Where were your operations?
JM: The [pause] I’m not sure if I can remember them all. The first one was Nuremberg. Hamburg.
[pause]
PE: Don’t worry if you can’t remember.
JM: I’m struggling to remember at the moment.
PE: That’s alright. It’s alright.
JM: Hamburg [unclear] I’m sorry, it’s just —
PE: No. Don’t worry.
JM: It’s a bit hard to.
PE: When, when you were flying the missions were you ever frightened about what you were doing?
JM: Frightened? Not, no, not frightened although on, when we went on our first operation I remember going to the plane and saying, sort of going, ‘Oh, Nuremberg and back,’ to the rest of the crew. So I was a bit, a bit optimistic. But when the, we were approaching the target the bombs, the mid-upper gunner suddenly said, ‘Don’t look at that ahead.’ There were a couple of Lancasters, it was a night mission, blew up. Burst in to flames near us and I remember the mid-upper gunner, the tough taxi driver making the remark, and I remember I was entering my log and my hands started shaking a bit but I wasn’t scared but I just couldn’t control it for a few moments, control my hand. That’s one thing I remember distinctly. But I don’t think, I think we thought we had a feeling of resignation that if it happens it happens and the fact that we were all together gave, gave a certain amount of confidence. The fact we were together as a crew. I think we did. We tended to strengthen each other. Yeah.
PE: I mean obviously a lot of your other squadron members were lost during the, during these missions. How did you feel about that? Did that affect you at all?
JM: Sort of numb really I suppose would be the expression. We would, for instance in the, in the nav, when we were plotting our course in the nav room before we went on a mission there would be, you know the fellas on the other tables that were plotting their course then on the map and then the next night the fella that was next to you at the seat there would be someone else there. And you were [pause] you were sort of aware of that. But the other, the main feeling was we can’t do much about it. We can’t do anything about it. The mid-upper gunner, the fella, over thirty year old, after the first trip said, ‘I’m going LMF,’ which was lack of moral fibre and that involved being stripped in front of the squadron on parade. Stripped of your, your insignia and then, and then being put in jail and put in the thing for a few days. And he said, ‘Well, I’ve had enough of this,’ you know. ‘I’m not doing that again.’ He said, ‘I’ve got two children at home in Sydney and I’m just, whatever I’m going to go through I will.’ But something happened when he came out after the interview with the, the senior officer that interviewed him. He said, ‘I’ve changed my mind. I’ll keep going.’ And I think because we were only in our very early twenties you tended to think I don’t think it’ll happen to me. That’s as well as I can remember. I think we were a bit resigned and you couldn’t, you couldn’t face the humility of, with the other people saying, ‘Yes, I’m not doing it any more.’ I think it did happen to odd people but not much. And so I think it’s a fairly, resignation. Well, we’re here. We’re in it. Do the best we can.
PE: How did you feel when you were bombing cities and towns in Germany knowing full well that places like London were being bombed here?
JM: Yes. Well, to be, well generally we sort of you don’t like the thought of what was happening down there but the, while you were actually, while you were doing the job your main concern was doing your job. I had to get to the target. I had to get them there on time and that was the main concern while you were doing it. Naturally, the thought of women and children, you know, in another country that really hadn’t affected you directly you didn’t like the thought of what you were doing but you didn’t think really about it. You thought, oh well, I’ve got to survive. I’ve got to. The job has got to be done. One day, one morning, early one morning we were flying back from one of our raids. I think it was one when we went to Nordhausen which was another place. The dawn was coming and there were, were flying over part of rural Germany coming back and the, the mid-upper gunner said that, ‘Look, we’ve had one or two hangups,’ Bombs that hadn’t released, ‘There’s these places there. We’ll let them have it as we go past them because we could see that they would do it to us.’ But the rest of the crew said, ‘No. No. We won’t do that at all. They, they haven’t hurt us. We’ve, we’ve done what we’ve dropped the bombs on the towns.’ So there was a bit of [unclear]. One of, one of our group would have let them have it. So I think the feeling was in the crew was that there was no real hatred or anything like that. No. It was a case we had to do the job and if possible survive. That’s as I remember it.
PE: That’s good. Can you remember when you left Binbrook?
JM: When I left Binbrook?
PE: When you left Binbrook. When did you go back to Australia?
JM: Well, when the war in Germany ended they asked for volunteers to go on in what they called Tiger Force which was they were going to reform 460 Squadron and were going to go out to Okinawa and bomb Japan and they asked for volunteers. The rest of my crew said, ‘No. We’ve had enough. We’ll go back to Australia.’ And I, for some reason decided no. Well, I was prepared to go to another crew. So they formed us in to a second crew. We started training to go. Go out. But then the war ended in, early in August and the whole thing was finished so we never had to. But that was August 1945. It was a very nice summer and we were suddenly free of the, the threat of being killed and so it was a case of just relaxing and enjoying yourself. And by this time I’d met my wife, Olive a couple of months before and so we spent a bit of time together taking her to the pictures and that sort of thing. One incident, I took her to the pictures one, one afternoon and I said, ‘I’ll get you an ice cream.’ So, well at the interval I go to get her an ice cream and the lights went out. Well, I had the two ice creams but I didn’t know where Olive was so I had to eat the two of them. When the lights came on I was sitting a few seats a few in front of her which she, she thought I’d run out on her but, one thing I remember. But then as it was September I was working with other jobs to do flying. We were flying. We were given the opportunity to fly troops back from Italy which was rather touching. They were very emotional as some of them had been away from England for ten and eleven years. And, and also we dropped, there was the Dutch were starving so we dropped food in the Operation Manna, I think. We had a few trips dropping food to the Dutch. And then that was it. [coughs] Pardon me. Sorry about that.
PE: It’s alright.
JM: My parents, my parents were, by this time were writing saying, ‘When are you coming home? Johnny Hodson in the next street, he’s home. He’s home. Why?’ But I was having, I was enjoying England. At any rate the, the order came back. I had to go back to Australia so that’s what I did. Got on the boat with all the rest of them and came back to peaceful Australia. Landed, when we landed at the wharf there were people all waving to see us. To see you all back. Quite a quite nice seeing my mum and dad and the family were all there along with thousands of other people and it was quite a happy occasion.
PE: Did Olive go back with you at the time?
JM: I beg your pardon?
PE: Did Olive go back with you at the time?
JM: Oh, no. No. We, we wrote to each other for four years after I came back. And I I was doing a course to study civil engineering at Melbourne University and I kept thinking I’ll, I’ll go back to embarkation and propose to her. I kept writing but the bald story is my sister said, ‘What are you going to do about that girl in England?’ I said, ‘Well, I’m going back in embarkation to her.’ She oh she said, ‘Don’t be silly. You’ve waited too long. Write to her and ask if she’d like to come out and hurry. Hurry up and she can stay with me.’ It was rather intimate I suppose as a part of our life. But any rate I wrote to Olive and said will you can come out [unclear] about matrimony. She said yes. And, and that was it. That was in 1952 she arrived at, because there was a shortage of shipping space and at any rate we came out and everything’s has been pretty good since then. We’ve got three sons. They’re men now in their fifties. And we’re still getting along well together.
PE: Yeah. Yeah. So you’ve had your golden wedding.
JM: Yes. We’ve been married sixty two, sixty two years.
PE: Sixty two.
JM: Sixty two years.
PE: Right.
JM: Going on sixty three.
PE: So, what’s that? Is that, that’s diamond isn’t it?
Other: Diamond.
PE: Diamond wedding is it? Yeah.
JM: Olive’s a bit [unclear] deaf.
PE: Yeah. Congratulations.
JM: Could you hear what I said, hun?
OM: Yes. I heard you.
JM: Oh.
OM: Sixty three years.
JM: Yeah.
PE: So, is that diamond wedding is it? Sixty two.
OM: I think so. Yes.
PE: It’s in the sixties anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It’s the diamond wedding. Yeah.
JM: Yes.
PE: Well, thank you very much, Jeff.
JM: Yeah.
PE: That was really good. Have you got any questions you wanted to ask?
Other: No. I mean you’ve covered most of the questions I was after anyway.
PE: I think you got a story in there anyway.
JM: And can, can you scramble out the coughing?
PE: Yeah. Yeah. No, we’ll edit all that out.
JM: Yeah.
PE: Don’t worry about that.
JM: Yes. Yes.
PE: You did remarkably well. Can I just check one thing?
JM: Yes.
PE: You’re in your mid-nineties now.
JM: I’m ninety three.
PE: Ninety three.
JM: Yes.
PE: That’s what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did very well to remember all that and you actually told a story which is quite unusual. One of the things that I like to do is find unusual stories in what anybody tells me. We know about your activities in 460 Squadron and the contribution that you made but the interesting thing was your voyage over to America with the German prisoners of war.
JM: Yes.
PE: Now, I’ve never heard that story before.
JM: No.
PE: And that’s very interesting in its own right. So, thank you for that.
JM: Yes. Yes. Well, that’s true. That’s, that’s how it happened.
PE: Good.
JM: Yeah.
PE: Well done. You did very well, Jeff. Thank you.
JM: Oh, thank you.
PE: Thank you. It’s been an honour to meet you. A privilege to talk to you. Thank you very much.
JM: I like to talk about myself [laughs]
PE: Most people do [laughs]
JM: Yes [laughs]
PE: Nothing wrong in that.
JM: Yes.
PE: Well, thanks a lot. That was brilliant.
JM: Yeah. Okay. My pleasure.
PE: That makes quite a good interview—
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jeff Mackay
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Paul Espin
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:34:45 Audio Recording
Identifier
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AMackayWJ150527, PMackayWJ1501
Type
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Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Description
An account of the resource
Jeff Mackay was born in 1922 in Ballarat, Australia and was working as a cadet engineer. He joined the Army but when the Japanese entered the war in 1941 decided to join the RAAF, and after boarding a ship he trained as a navigator in Canada and then went to the UK to commence operational training. After flying training at RAF Llandwrog he was sent to RAF Hixon where he crewed up. It was at a local pub that he and his crew met a gentleman who wore a bowler hat and he befriended the crew and the singer of the crew would borrow his hat to sing songs. When they announced that they were being posted away he gave them the bowler hat, and his skipper would wear the hat on operations. He and his crew were posted to 460 Squadron at RAF Binbrook flying Lancasters and flew eleven operations, the last being on Nuremburg.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1943
1945-02
1945-08
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Netherlands
United States
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
Germany--Nuremberg
Wales--Gwynedd
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
460 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
entertainment
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
military ethos
navigator
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
prisoner of war
RAF Binbrook
RAF Hixon
RAF Llandwrog
superstition
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/904/26982/LJonesWC1852503v1.2.pdf
b5184633cbb82752d49c6c7fe3959179
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jones, William
William C Jones
W C Jones
Description
An account of the resource
Nine items. An oral history interview with Stella Jones about her late husband, Sergeant William Jones (b. 1924, 1852503 Royal Air Force), his log book, documents and photographs. His photograph album is a sub-colection. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 218 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Stella Jones and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Jones, WC
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
W C Jones’ navigator’s, air gunner’s and air bomber’s flying log book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LJonesWC1852503v1
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Navigator’s, air gunner’s and air bomber’s flying log book for W C Jones, wireless operator, covering the period from 13 December 1943 to 23 May 1945. Detailing his flying training and operations flown. He was stationed at RAF Madley, RAF Llandwrog, RAF Westcott, RAF Langar and RAF Chedburgh. Aircraft flown in were Dominie, Proctor, Wellington and Lancaster. He flew a total of 19 operations with 218 (Gold Coast) Squadron. 8 Daylight, 3 night, 3 Operation Manna and 5 Operation Exodus. Targets were Kamen, Cologne, Wanne Eickel, Gelsenkirchen, Dessau, Bocholt, Hallendorf, Merseburg, Kiel, Bremen and The Hague. His pilot on operations was Flying officer R Wilson.
Creator
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Great Britain. Royal Air Force
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1943
1944
1945
1945-03-01
1945-03-02
1945-03-04
1945-03-05
1945-03-07
1945-03-08
1945-03-19
1945-03-22
1945-03-29
1945-04-06
1945-04-07
1945-04-09
1945-04-10
1945-04-22
1945-05-01
1945-05-03
1945-05-07
1945-05-11
1945-05-12
1945-05-13
1945-05-17
1945-05-19
1945-05-23
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Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Suffolk
Germany--Bocholt
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dessau (Dessau)
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Kamen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Salzgitter
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Netherlands--Hague
Wales--Gwynedd
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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eng
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One booklet
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Mike Connock
11 OTU
1669 HCU
218 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
bombing
Cook’s tour
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Langar
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Madley
RAF Westcott
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/27236/BAdamsHGAdamsHGv3.1.pdf
b629d8156eacb9d34cd9571706ae198a
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Title
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Adams, Herbert
Herbert Adams
H Adams
Herbert G Adams
Description
An account of the resource
88 items. Collection concerns Herbert George Adams DFC, Legion d'Honour (b. 1924, 424509 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, photographs of people and places, several memoirs about his training and bombing operations, letters to his family, his flying logbook and notes on navigation.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Herbert Adams and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Trevor Hardcastle.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-02-15
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Adams, HG
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
The War … Training.
Towards the end of 1941, the Air Training Corps was formed. Terry Cooke & I joined at once, and, due to my surname, my number was 10 001, the first in NSW. We trained at Ashfield in Whitehurst’s garage (the showroom floor was devoid of new cars by then), and Whitehurst himself was the Squadron Leader in charge – he was an ex-pilot from WWI. One of the benefits of joining the A.T.C. was that it gave you accelerated position on the waiting list for air-crew … then about 8 months. Air-crew enlistment was very popular, I guess partly due to the Battle of Britain publicity & the realization that air power would play a big part in the war. The Japs had shown at Pearl Harbour that planes could sink battleships (putting them out-of-date forever!)
Our training in the ATC consisted mainly of learning Morse Code, aircraft & ship recognition of both Allied and enemy planes & ships. Terry was already an accomplished plane modeller, & he added several to the growing collection hanging from the ceiling … we studied them, learnt their names & tried to recognise them at a distance and in subdued light.
We also did some P.E. The “old” tubby Squdron [sic] Leader surprised us early in the piece. He got us all to do as many push-ups as we could. No one got beyond 30, several couldn’t do 10. He then proceeded to do 50! He had a table-tennis set up & was quite adept, so we all got a go at that. In the city at that time the world doubles champions had an academy in Pitt St. He invited them to put on an exhibition for us, including a set of singles for some of us against one of them. Two of their ‘stunts’ stood out. Zabados [sic] (the older) would say, “it’s an easy game, see” while returning shots with his back to Keelan (who was good enough to put the ball onto his bat.) Zabados [sic] then turned, faced Keelan & returned several balls using the edge of the bat!
[page break]
I had a set against Keelan, and despite him “setting up” chances for my topspin forehand, he won 21-6.
We were promised uniforms in the spring of 1942. But, although we were then on the waiting list for call-up for aircrew, compulsory national military training had begun. In June, Terry was called up for the Army, & sent to North Sydney for Artillery training. As both our birthdays were in February, I enquired why I wasn’t called up too. We both realized that 6/- a day with everything found made us rich compared with public service wage of about £3 a week … paying board & fares.
I was surprized [sic] to learn they had me “in reserved occupation”! After a lot of phone calls and a consultation, that was scrubbed and I was called up for the Army on 3rd July & sent to Dubbo for basic infantry training .. 54th Company of 5th Infantry Training Brigade, army number 252661. We did the usual rifle, bayonet, machine-gun, anti-tank gun, mortars, grenades, & gas-drills, parade ground drill (not too much), P.E., routemarches ending in the “mad-mile” … obstacle course … a bit like we see at Kapooka on T.V. It was a solid month. Then our corporal invited any of us who could drive a truck to step forward … for a course at Moorebank for a month, likely to have us become a driver on infantry transport. All 30 of us stepped forward! After trying us out in 3 ton Fords, about 20 of us convinced them we could double-shuffle … (one chap never managed to change from low … just grind, grind, grind … so he didn’t go.), & we got on the course.
At Moorebank (next to the big Army camp at Liverpool) we spent most days on practical work, especially on Bren gun carriers, including some driving. The gear linkage was a mirror-reverse of normal gear H pattern …. a bit hard to learn. Gentle curves could be made with the steering wheel which put a bed in the tracks, but for sharper turns, we’d change down 2 gears, hit the accelerator & turn the wheel sharply, which [indecipherable word] one track
[page break]
The carriers were quite heavy (1/4” armour all round) & driven by a Ford V8 Mercury engine, so there was a lot of stalling learning to do sharp turns. Some of the heavier work was repairing broken tracks. We also did a lot of learning how to take-apart carburettors, petrol pumps, mend punctures, change wheels etc. Then, each night we had lectures on all sorts of things to do with transport, including how engines worked, clutches, diffs, steering, electrical etc. I managed to skip a few of these night sessions, but still studied the manual they provided. At the end of the month we had a written exam. A couple of lads hadn’t learnt to read & write very well, and I guess many of the them [sic] hadn’t excelled at school. Anyway, I came top of the class & was invited to do a 6-month course at Sydney Tech College & come out Warrant Officer instructor, age 18! Wartime promotion! I was tempted, since it was well known that the loss rate in Air Crew was high. However, I turned it down, went back to Dubbo for a few more weeks … mostly working on Bren gun carriers, until I got the call-up for air-crew .. on 12th Sept to Bradfield Park, No 2 I.T.S. (Initial Training School).
[black and white photograph of Herbert Adams in Australian Army uniform]
This is my only photo in Army uniform, taken at “Springfield” Mendooran, about the end of August ’42, probably on a short leave after completing the course at Moorebank, on the way back to Dubbo.
[page break]
At Bradfield Park we were 32 course (one a month since the [inserted] Empire [/inserted] Air Training Scheme began early in 1940 to provide aircrew for Britain … training done in Canada, New Zealand, South Africa & Australia.) Each course was divided into several “flights” graded according to our tested speeds at receiving Morse Code. I was one of 25 in 32D flight, … I think there were 7 flights. We all wore “goonskins” & berets.
Photo taken on 6/10/42
[black and white photograph of four rows of men wearing boiler suits and berets at the side of a hut]
Front Row: F. Morgan, J. Chigwidden, R. Roeder, C. Dowie.
Second Row: E. Cunningham, R. McCallister, R. Schneider, P. Rutherford, L. Davies, J. Boatswain, J. Thorne
Third Row: J. O’Brien, J. Weekes, K. Burns, A. Marshall, R. Loton, P. Skerman, B. Adams, D. Nicholls
Back Row: M. Coleman, D. Milliken, G. Lumsdaine, G. Benson, P. Brander, D. Placell, A. Dufty.
[page break]
The course at Bradfield Park lasted about 3 months. There was a lot more Morse Code training, aiming at 20 words/min for us all. There was a lot of introductory training about Theory of Flight, Meteorology, Guns & ammunition, bombs, elementary radio, principles of navigation & bomb aiming. We also got an indication of what further training would occur, & where, for the main categories:- pilots, observors [sic] (combined navigation, bomb-aiming & air gunnery), & WAG (wireless operator/gunner).
All got a dental overhaul. I think there were some ‘trainee’ dentists. I was supposed to get 6 fillings one day. After drilling until only a shell remained on one tooth; in trying to extract it, it broke off & so had to be a cut-job to get the root out. I had that happen 5 more times, about a week apart. No doubt my teeth were chalky. I got a new bigger plate.
Sometime during the course I got a mild case of mumps & was sent to the isolation hospital, Prince Henry, near Malabar.
When I got back I became part of 33 course, but then they decided that part of 33 course would be “rushed” to join 32 course … more places to fill at the various training venues. Those chosen had to be reasonably fast at Morse Code; I qualified & so rejoined 32 course.
We did a lot of P.E. One of our regular tasks was a run down to Fullers Bridge & back (uphill). The P.E. instructors gave us recruits a lot of “get a move on you soft ------- s”. It’s true most of the recruits were soft, straight from civvy street, many from desk jobs. But a couple of us had been toughened up by infantry training & told them not to be so tough. The upshot was a challenge who could get to the top first – us or the P.E. instructors. We won, I guess partly because they could have been at the NCOs canteen after work … we had to be tee-total.
There was a lot of emphasis on marching; we found out why … we we [sic] the main lot to march
[page break]
in Sydney in support of a War Loan Rally. We marched 12-abreast & on some corners collided with onlookers & barricades due to the tendancy [sic] of marchers to push outwards on corners.
The food at Bradfield Park was generally fairly good except for their scrambled egg … it was made from egg-powder & found to be so distasteful that garbage bins were overflowing outside the mess huts with discarded scrambled egg. Yet, later, in England we enjoyed scrambled egg made from egg powder. Better cooks maybe?
Towards the end of the course there was a co-ordination test … perhaps to indicate suitability for pilot training. (The bulk of us young fellows wanted to be pilots.) The test required use of a joystick & rudder pedals to cause a light spot to follow a projected light spot. When our course was briefed to do this I was at the dentist & so had to do it later on my own. I suspect I wasn’t given adequate briefing; but the main drawback was because, as a youngster, I had a flivver … you steered it with your feet just the opposite way that rudder pedals work on a plane; it had a handle worked to & fro joined to a crank to the back wheels, like the old railway fettlers ‘trikes’. Whatever the reason, I knew I’d performed badly on the test. So when it came to ask for Pilot, Observor [sic] or WAG, I said observor. [sic] the reply was …”don’t you want to be a pilot? Why observor?” [sic] So I said that I knew I’d done badly on the coordination test, but I’d done well in Maths & Science at High School so I thought I’d make a good navigator (the main task of the observor) [sic] .. What I didn’t say, if I asked for pilot & they’d said no, you can train as a W.A.G. They agreed for me to train as an Observor [sic] at Air Observors [sic] School (No 1 A.O.S.) at Cootamundra, starting on 10 Dec. ’42 after a few days leave.
[page break]
We arrived by train at Cootamundra in the morning. As I threw my kitbag on top of the truck-load of them, I fainted & woke up in the local hospital. A doctor wanted to operate at once for appenicitis [sic] but needed written parental permission as I was under 21. They’d phoned home but had no way to get written permission in time so he got me to sign it. I think I was dilerious [sic] for 2 or 3 days. Mum & May had arrived & stayed at a hotel for a few more days. I was treated (lucky for me) with penicillin, which was relatively new in hospitals then. A large needle was taped to a buttock & graduated doses squirted in … so many CC’s, wait a few hours, more CCs, wait, etc. … it took 24 hours to complete. I had a rubber tube in my side which oozed out grey pus. After 2 weeks I thought I might go home. But I was kept there for 4 weeks. Then sent home still with an open hole in the centre of the scar which had to be dressed & covered … no swimming. Just as I was leaving they said “You’ll have to go and have your appendix out in about 3 months time … all we’ve done has been to teat your infection .. sort of gangrene.” I had 2 weeks sick leave at Mendooran, & did wade in the dam a few times while Beryl & Meggs swam & dived.
[black and white photograph of Herbert Adams in uniform]
This photo was probably taken during that leave in January ’43 at Springfield.
The white strip on our berets signified “aircrew trainee.”
[page break]
When I returned to Cootamundra, I was put on “Light Duties”, in the Navigation Instruments section where they stored, issued, repaired & received maps, dividers, parallel ruler, & C.S.C.’s (courses speed calculators). One person could easily handle it so I did almost nothing. In our spare time I helped his little money-maker – making brooches etc from moulded plastic (he got that free) … all he bought were the safety pins embedded in the back.
I actually joined 35 Course for a while and attended some of the lessons, but didn’t fly with them. However I did get to attend their passing-out dinner at the Albion Hotel, .. the lads normally drank there or at the Globe, opposite, on Sat. afternoons. Some of them did literally pass-out due to too much beer.
On 30th March ’43, I entered Forest Hill RAAF hospital where a big-name RAAF surgeon from Melbourne took out my appendix, kept me there for 2 weeks then I got 2 weeks leave.
On 29th April I got back to Cootamundra and did a few weeks with 37 Course, actually doing my first plane flight ever with them on 11th May … being airsick twice in 3 hours. I attended their passing-out dinner too, and finally began the Observors [sic] course 38A.
In the classroom we did a lot of dry-swim exercises of plotting air-plots, fixes, wind-finding as well as learning more meterology, [sic] signalling, radio, ship & plane recognition, compasses & map projections, & photography. On any flight over 2 hours I got air sick, as did several others … the inside of the old Anson actually smelt like vomit, which didn’t help. I & a few others got some treatment at sick quarters for motion sickness which entailed sitting (strapped in) in a machine than [sic] combined swinging & rotating. It didn’t seem to help. The Ansons were not heavy planes, but one day we taxied to the far corner, it was only a grass ‘drome in those days), & got bogged as we turned to take off. The 3 trainee navs. & the W.O.P. got out & pushed & we got it out.
[page break]
Here’s a bit about the Anson from an old book we used to learn aircraft recognition.
[four drawings of an Anson aircraft]
[black and white photograph of an Anson]
AVRO ANSON
Valuable operations against U-boats stand to the credit of the Avro Anson, a coastal reconnaissance machine readily distinguished by its long windowed “greenhouse” cabin. It carries a crew of three, is driven by two 350 h.p. Armstrong Siddeley Cheetah IX air-cooled radial motors and armed with fixed machine-guns in nose and turret. The wooden wings have a span of 56 ft. 6 in.; the fuselage is metal, with fabric covering. The Avro Anson is also used extensively as a training machine. Top speed, 188 m.p.h.
We, later, also flew in Ansons at Parkes doing the Astro-navigation course, and at Llandwrog (North Wales) where we did “Advanced” (not very) Flying … really an introduction to navigating in Britain.
[page break]
At Cootamundra we flew 17 times for a total of 51 1/4 hrs, mostly day-time. Usually 3 trainee nav’s went on each flight, doing 1/3 of the actual navigation each. The other two practised map-reading, drift-taking, bearing taking (with hand-held compass). Our longest trip was to Parafield (S.A.) where we stayed the night. On the way over we flew above cloud nearly all the time, so no map-reading. The W.O.P. tried to get loop bearings on radio stations but these were often difficult to pick up & notoriously inaccurate. We got lucky – below the only break in the clouds appeared the town of Donald (surrounded by many miles of “nothing” for map reading). This gave us a chance to find the wind-velocity, readjust our course for Parafield & our ETA. We had a passing-out dinner, a weeks leave and a posting to Evans Head.
Below is the assessment for the A.C.S. course at Cootamundra … maybe a bit faint for copying from my log-book.
[table from log book between 27.5.43 and 19.9.43]
[page break]
On 20th Aug. ’42 we arrived by train at Casino, then RAAF transport lorry to Evans Head’s site of No 1 B.A.G.S. (Bombing & Gunnery School). We did a lot of classroom work on bombsights, bomb construction, and later on air-to-air & air-to-ground gunnery – the deflection problem, & operation of the Vickers Gas Operated machine gun. Our flying was done in Fairey Battle planes, some of which had survived the retreat from France (many didn’t, as they were no match for Me 109’s.). Although the Observor [sic] lay on the floor with his face just behind the radiator when bombing, getting hot glycol fumes, I was never airsick in them. Others were who hadn’t been sick in Ansons. For a typical bombing exercise we carried up to 8 practice bombs, dropped in separate runs on a patch of sand at the bombing range, where our error could be gauged & recorded. Before bombing, we’d use the drift recorder in 3 directions to find the wind to set on the bomb-sight. If our wind was wrong we’d get a bigger error than otherwise. My average error for 131 bombs was 123 yards although this included 45 from low level where the errors were smaller. I did only one night exercise with 3 bombs averaging 74 yards .. better than day-time. Total flying time for bomb-aiming was 60 1/2 hours for 19 flights.
For air-gunnery we would dip the .303 bullet heads in paint, load them into circular drum magazines and shoot at drogues towed by another Battle. Four different gunners, using different coloured paint, could fire at the same drouge [sic] before it was dropped & the number of hits recorded for each colour. The last of the 4 would often be shouted a mock dog-fight with the drouge [sic]-tower after he’d dropped the drouge. [sic] It usually included a loop the loop. The worst part of gunnery was cleaning the paint out of the magazines. I reckon my deafness may be due to the 1656 rounds fired with left forearm below the barrel, cheek alongside the breech-block of the gun mounted in the open rear cockpit on a spigot. My best result was 22 percent of 200 rounds worst 0 percent of 86 rounds (my first try) & overall average about 4 percent, I didn’t find it easy to allow the proper deflection.
[page break]
This is a bit about the Fairey Battle, from the same old aircraft recognition book.
[seven drawings and one black and white photograph of a Fairey Battle]
FAIREY BATTLE
This well-known medium bomber, which won an early reputation on the Western Front, has a distinctive feature in its long cockpit enclosure, terminating in the rear gunner’s position. A second machine-gun is situated in the starboard wing. Fuselage is slim and oval in section and the sharply tapering wings have a span of 54 feet. Power is provided by a 1,030 h.p. Rolls-Royce Merlin II or III engine giving a top speed of 257 m.p.h. and a range of 1,000 miles.
[page break]
We left Evans Head on 10th Oct, (no leave) and arrived at Parkes on the 11th, for a 1 month astro-nav. course. 1 A.N.S. (Air Nav. School). I think we were all promoted to L.A.C. after Cootamundra, getting (I think) an extra 6d a day. When we pass out at Parkes most of us will become Sergeants, some Officers and we’ll get our big O wing (O for observor [sic]), a sergeants pay goes up to 10/- a day.
Most of our days are spent in a classroom. We only did 6 flights (4 at night) totalling 20 hrs, in Ansons again. There was a lot to learn, including the names of the brightest stars in the Southern skies. The bubble sextants we used had a manual averageing [sic] mechanism. You turned the knob until the sun (or star) filled the bubble, pulled the trigger (back to zero) & did it again & again … I think 10 times, then read the average of your 10 sights … and in the air took the time at start and end, to the second (for most of us the first time we’d used a watch with a second hand). We began taking ground sights (so we knew where we were!) & ended up doing 92 of these on stars, the sun & a few on the moon. Our first “moving” sights were from the back of a truck on the smoothest, straightest part of the road Parkes to Forbes .. nice bitumen for those days. Every 4 sights took 2 pages of graph paper & calculations & for each one a position line drawn and error calculated. To keep the bubble centred & steady there needs to be [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] no acceleration or change of direction, so the back of lorry shots were rather inaccurate … and we had to calculate our position on the road to find our error. I still have 2 science graph books full of the working we did at Parkes as well as a Sight Log Book with all the details recorded, including those we did later in Wellingtons … all signed for & certified correct. During our 6 air flights I took 31 star shots, 7 sun, 3 moon and 1 planet, overall averaging about 5 miles error.
For air shots the plane needs to be kept straight & level with speed constant … later with autopilot in Wellingtons we got better accuracy.
[page break]
All those ground shots had to be done in our “spare” time, yet we were in the classroom all day 6 1/2 days a week except when flying. The peacetime course of 6 months had been compressed into 1 month. We had Saturday afternoon free & our instructor said he expected none of us to be sober by sundown. There was a written exam at the end of the month & I did well. I was made sergeant & we went straight to Bradfield Park again on 11th Nov. ’43 to await embarkation. I think we had a few days leave, then sailed on the SS Mt Vernon on 26th. It was an American troop ship with 600 of us RAAF & a lot of wounded/sick Yank soldiers who’d seen a hard time in the Pacific. We didn’t see much of them. We were all in one hold, 4-tier bunks, [deleted] all [/deleted] only narrow aisles between, portholes covered at night & no lights allowed as well. Luckily, we had a lad who played the saxophone well, so each night we’d have a few hours of songs before sleep-time.
The Pacific Ocean was fairly calm for about 10 days, we got our sea legs I think, because we then ran into 3 days of stormy weather (there were logs from the storms floating in San Francisco harbour when we arrived), but few of us were seasick. It was 10th Dec. ’43.
When we docked all our sea-kit bags were unloaded and the 60 of us observors, [sic] who’d been booked for Canada to do a Reconnaisence [sic] course there, were told they’d changed their plans for us, so we had to load our 60 kit bags onto a truck. Then they asked for volunteers to accompany the truck & load them onto the train there … promising that the volunteers would be into town ahead of the others. We’d heard of the “Top of the Mark” Hopkins hotel & agreed we’d all meet there. We volunteers were an hour later than the rest & when we got there they’d run out of all beer except Mexican, and it was worse apparently than American (which was sweet & fizzy). The real disappointment was missing the trip to Canada with the safe prospect of patrols in long-range Liberators over the Altantic, [sic] but instead destined for Bomber Command.
[page break]
[extract from a log book signed by Chief Instructor of the Air Observers Advanced Navigation Course]
[black and white photograph of two men and one woman. Herbert Adams is in uniform and the other man in a civilian suit]
October, ’43. Bert, Beryl & Meggs, just after completion of course at 1 B.A.G.S. Evans Head … on leave before going to 1 A.N.S. at Parkes.
In San Francisco we spent the night in a Transit Camp called Fort McDowell. The next day I bought a new watch with sweep second-hand, as we were told (before we sailed) that there was not enough issue watches in England for all Navigators. We didn’t have much time for sightseeing, saw the Golden Gate, Alcatraz & crossed the Oakland bridge to board the Southern Pacific train at Oakland on 11th Dec. It was a troop train, but with pullman cars like we’d seen in movies … aisle in the middle & little compartments to seat 4, but only 3 occupants, because at night a Negro porter pulled down an upper bunk for 1, & converted the lower seats & table to a double bed … he put on the sheets & blankets too. We all chipped in at New York & gave him a decent tip. There were steam pipes below the seats which worked well, except for the top bunk where I slept … on most mornings there were icicles hanging from the roof from my condensed breath.
[page break]
Our train rarely stopped for us to get off – it was often shunted on to a side track, to allow passenger &/or freight trains to pass.
[black and white photograph of a train]
This is one such diesel Steamliner express at Denver, about to leave for Chicago.
We were allowed off at Denver for 2 hours. I stopped at a chemist shop which also sold watches and asked if they could fix my new watch which had stopped after 1 day! The man fixed it in a few minutes with a dab of oil I think. He didn’t want any payment, but said he’d like an Australian kangaroo penny. I gave him the 4 I had. He thought that too generous! and came forth with a gift of a leather wallet … generous American.
As a group of us were walking back to the train a civilian noticed our little AUSTRALIA strips on our shoulders and said to us .. “Say, boys, I didnt [sic] know AUSTRIA was on our side in the war.” He was keen then to ask us all where in Australia we were from, a bit about our training & the boat trip.
Americans cooked our meals, which were then brought through the carriages by rotating teams of volunteers. For each meal we got a big stainless steel ”tray” of 5 compartments; if it was lunch we’d likely get a ladle of meat in one, a ladle of vegetables in each of 3 spaces, a ladle of sweets in the last & then a ladle of what we reckoned was plum jam spread over the whole lot! But it was nice food.
At Chicago we stopped for about an hour in a huge marshalling yard several tracks away from a platform. As there was snow on the ground most of us got out to have a snow-fight (I’d never seen snow). We soon got back in the train … it was -30o outside, & a chilly wind!
[page break]
On the train, as on the boat, we spent a lot of the daylight time playing cards, mostly pontoon for money but sometimes 500 for fun. Pontoon is a bit like Blackjack, but fairer to the non-banker players, and, I think allows a lot more judgement & maybe skill. On the train we put the limit bet up to 25C (from 2/-), which meant the maximum win possible after double & redouble, getting 5 under 21, which pays double, for $8 win … although that rarely happened.
At New York we went to a Transit Camp, Fort Slocum on 19th Dec. We had 2 days free in the city. I can’t remember much that I did besides going to the top of the Empire State building, going to an ice hockey match at Madison Square Garden, (I hadn’t realized what a rough game it was) sitting so high & far from the rink that I couldn’t see where the puck flew to when a shot missed the net, and having a leisurly [sic] drinking session – their beer seemed light & fizzy at Jack Dempsey’s Spagetti [sic] Bar. We tried the spagetti [sic] … I’d only ever had it from tins with tomato sauce, but there, it was just a big plateful of boiled spagetti [sic] with hard, dry, grated cheese in a shaker, no ketchup either.
From Fort Slocum we were taken to the harbour & loaded aboard the I’le de France on 22nd Dec. It wasn’t a very big troopship, but was stacked with American Army men going to U.K. ready for the invasion in June. Our lot was crammed into a cramped hold (?) below water-level, near the stern … the sides we [sic] quite sloped; the only access to the showers & toilets on the deck above us was up 2 vertical latters [sic] & through round waterproof doors (if closed) in the roof.
[page break]
And they had a plumbing problem with that bathroom, the toilets had overflowed onto the floor … we had to paddle through a couple of inches of watery muck to up more stairs to another bathroom. We were not happy, especially when they did a Boat Drill next day & it took our lot 2 hours to get up on deck.
Still we sailed on the morning of Xmas Eve, got as far as the Statue of Liberty, where the ship broke down – engine trouble, - and was towed back. Eventually, we were fed sandwiches about 9 p.m. The next morning they said we could wait on board for a meal (sometime) and get paid, or go off to the city without either, where there would, maybe, be American civilians willing to take us home for Xmas Dinner. We did that and a nice man Mr Richie took 3 of us to his home in Mt Vernon.
We got there about 1 pm, found the lounge room beautifully decorated for Xmas, a tree lit up, and drinks offered round. We were hungry & wondered when the dinner would begin. But the talking and sipping continued until about 7 pm when we sat down to a sumptuous meal, he carved the turkey, we had second helpings & they remarked that we had good appetites. He took us back to Fort Slocum & arranged to meet us at his factory on the 27th.
[black and white photograph of the front of a house]
Mr. Richies home in Mt Vernon, N.Y.
[page break]
His factory, among other things, made good quality hankerchiefs. [sic] He presented each of us with 1/2 dozen very nice ones, then took us to a businessmens’ [sic] club where we had a few drinks .. we weren’t allowed to buy … it was all paid by the member himself signing a chit … no cash appeared. He took us back to Fort Slocum for the night and we had 3 more days to wander about New York, spend what little money we had left; I think I went to a cinema or two, but can’t remember the films I saw.
On New Year’s Eve we were loaded aboard the Queen Elizabeth which had been converted to a troop ship earlier in the war … some of the cabins had been finished, other parts not … which allowed for even more bunks for troops. We got a double cabin with bathroom … each 6’ of wall had 3-tier bunks so 18 of us fitted in the cabin. We found that on the 3 (I think) open decks where there was a walkway about 10’ wide all round between the rail & cabins walls that they had 3-tier bunks, bolted to the cabin walls and U.S. Army men used them to sleep in 12 hour double shifts. I heard that they put over 20 000 troops aboard. We went to big dining rooms for a meal, twice a day. It took 4 hours for the first meal, a clean up, then 4 hours for the second meal. When it came to Boat Drill all the decks were crammed, all the big wide staircases & still many in corridors. Big fast ships like the Queens travelled alone relying on their speed for safety, cargo ships went in convoys at the speed of the slowest ship, escorted by the Navy & shephered [sic] by long-range aircrafts. A couple of days out we were told
[page break]
that they thought there was a U-boat pack waiting in Mid-Atlantic & so this ship was going to divert well North … up towards Iceland, at maximum speed. They told us to put on warm clothes as they would turn off the cabin heating to get more heat for the engines! One of the crew told us at Greenock, later, that they got to about 40 knots.
The Atlantic was fairly rough & all the rails seemed to be occupied by seasick Americans, but our 2 weeks on the Pacific apparently cured us. We spent most of the time playing cards – the pontoon games were now lowered to a 2C limit. Anyone who’d managed to retain a few dollars could get into crap games (dice) which the Americans played a lot of.
We actually sailed from New York on the morning of New Years Day, and arrived at Greenock, Scotland, near Glasgow, on 7th Jan. Several of the crew were Australians, and one of them took a few of us for a tour of parts of the ship not normally open to passengers. We climbed up inside the mast on narrow steps to, I guess, the crows-nest … it was so high as to be scary even though it only swayed a little, being anchored. He showed us a big gun near the bow … about 6” I think, and maybe 40’ above the water. He said that on a previous crossing ploughing through big waves that the previous gun had been torn from its mountings (bolts about 2” thick). We saw the kitchens & engines … it was great.
By nightfall we’d been loaded onto a train which arrived next morning at Brighton where the RAAF had taken over 2 of the big hotels on the waterfront the Grand & the Metropole, both about 8 floors high.
[page break]
We stayed at Brighton, No. 11 P.D.R.C, until 21st Jan. There were some lessons, a chance to begin learning the main stars ion the Northern Hemisphere – even on cloudy nights we could make use of a planisphere to learn the names & relative positions of those stars. I guess they consulted our records & maybe our log-books, but here they decided who would be navigator, who bomb-aimer, which pilots would go to Bomber Command & which to Fighter or other smaller planes. Sid Payne who’d trained at Cootamundra with me after earlier doing EFTS at Narromine and being “scrubbed” during SFTS at Uranqunity, became a bomb-aimer & I a navigator.
However, the first thing that happened after we got to Brighton was to be sent on leave for a few days. They had an arrangement called the Lady Ryder Scheme, where new arrivals could go to a private home as a guest for a week. My hostess was Mrs Adams, who had a nice house (modernised internally), called Huntercombe Farmhouse, Huntercombe Lane, Taplow, Buckinghamshire, not very far from Windsor. She made me feel at home but had to be absent almost the whole week – she gave the doorkey & said to help myself & recommended I visit Margaret Vyner, an Australian actress, who lived at Dorney Village, between Taplow & Windsor, & who was reputed to like having an Australian visitor. I did that & also met her husband Hugh Marlowe, a handsome English actor (he played The Saint in a film). They took me to the nearby Pub for a drink & yarn. While there, David Niven turned up in uniform (Army Captain) just back from North Africa on leave, with a case of brandy.
[page break]
I guess I was pretty much ignored as they’d been friends for years, & once they started on the brandy I took my leave. While staying at Mrs Adams’ place I visited Eton College and Windsor Castle.
[black and white photograph of Mrs Adams’ house]
Mrs Adams’ house, Huntercombe Farmhouse, Taplow, Bucks.
[black and white photograph of the pub, The Palmer Arms, with a bicycle leaning against the wall]
The Pub next door to where Margaret Vyner & Hugh Williams lived in Dorney Village, between Taplow & Windsor.
[black and white photograph of Eton College]
Eton College
[black and white photograph of the chapel at Eton College]
The Chapel
[page break]
During my first visit to London, Jan ’44.
[black and white photographs of the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben]
Houses of Parliament, and Big Ben
[black and white photographs of the interior and exterior of St Paul’s Cathedral]
St Pauls Cathedral
[black and white photograph of Buckingham Palace]
Buckingham Palace
[page break]
[black and white photograph of Eton College]
Eton College
[black and white photograph of the chapel at Eton College]
The Chapel
[black and white photograph of Windsor Castle]
Windsor Castle
[black and white photograph of Windsor Castle]
From the Railway Station
[black and white photograph of Windsor Castle]
From the Soccer Fields
[page break]
On the short rail trip back to London from Taplow, David Niven was in the same compartment, with 6 other people. We merely said good-day; I think he had a hangover.
Back at Brighton, towards the end of our time there, a few of us navigators were interviewed by Group-Captain (later Air-Vice Marshall) Bennett, in charge of Pathfinders. He told us that when he first formed Pathfinders and asked the squadrons for proficient crews to volunteer, a lot of them got rid of crews who were troublemakers and their navigators not often their best. He offerred [sic] us the opportunity of skipping the other training we’d normally do, to go direct to Pathfinders where they’d train us their way; but of course, we’d have to do a second tour straight after the first tour. The end of the war seemed still a way off, and Pathfinders had to spend extra time at each target, so he got few takers, certainly not I.
I’ve saved a few postcards of Brighton, printed pre-war. In wartime they dismanlted [sic] a section of the 2 piers to prevent enemy landings.
[black and white picture postcard of East Cliff and Palace Pier, Brighton]
[page break]
[three black and white picture postcards of Brighton Pier, Brighton Beach and Preston Park, Brighton]
[page break]
While at Brighton we had a few hit & run air raids at night … it wasn’t far across to France. At first we went down to the basement, but stayed in our rooms for the others. Late on 21st Feb. we got on a train, which after a change or two and a truck ride we arrived at Llandwrog, North Wales, No 9 (O) A.F.U. on the 22nd. It was a war-time dispersed camp, several miles south on the coast from the narrow [inserted] Menai [/inserted] strait next to Angelsea, [sic] where Sid Payne was to do his Bomb-Aimers A.F.U. (Mona airfield)
The sleeping quarters were in Nissen huts below sea-level separated from the beach by a sea-wall. Therefore, there was no running water or sewerage. We had garbage tins between each hut to use as urinals at night … sometimes they ran over. There were hundreds of RAAF bicycles … you could take any you saw and leave it where you liked. To our east were the runways, then the hangars, the messes & toilets, showers & laundry facilities, about 1 1/2 mile ride.
We were to spend just over a month there; the flying in Ansons again. We found map-reading difficult; whereas in the Riverina there was lots of open spaces devoid of railway lines, towns etc, in the U.K. there seemed to be too many roads, rivers, towns … difficult to tell one from another, especially since there was mostly a lot of cloud about.
Our aerodrome was only a few miles from Mt Snowdon, the highest mountain south of Scotland. We were told that 13 Ansons had crashed on it during training flights (not all from Llandwrog). So beware. Our staff pilots, when returning to where the navigator said was (below the clouds) our ‘drome, they’d fly west for 10 minutes to descend over the Irish Sea, … just in case.
[page break]
On each flight, 2 trainee-navigators were on board, one to do the exercise and be assessed on it, the other to do practice map-reading, astro shots, drift reading etc. We did just under 36 hours of flying in 13 flights. In Australia, none of the Ansons had heating for the crew, but here it seemed after 5 flights, that they all did. Until the night of 5th March. We took off at 1910 & flew for almost 3 hours, & the plane was nice & warm, as usual, so we just wore our battle-dress uniform. After de-briefing, we were sent on another similar flight at 0250 (early morning), for 2 3/4 hr flying. But the plane wasn’t heated and it was about -30o at 4000! I was supposed to take sextant shots which required tracking a star, eye to the eyepiece for 2 minutes while the clockwork mechanism averaged a lot of readings (maybe 60). It was hopeless. The tears in my eyes began to freeze and I saw circular rainbows before the 2 min. elapsed. We just had to suffer the cold. The heating worked on our remaining 5 flights. My assessments ranged from 65 percent to 81 percent, with a mean of about 71 percent and a remark (written in log book): “average navigator, works hard and is keen.”
One funny thing happened there. Between the hangars & the mess was a wide expanse of bitumen. We saw two airmen on bicycles riding towards each other (not very quickly, luckily) … both tried turning away on the same side, then both back, until their front tyres met squarely head on catapulting both to fall on the tangled bikes.
We had a day off at weekends and visited Caernavon [sic] & Conway castles.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of Herbert Adams and another airman leaning against a hut]
With Col McLaughlin beside the instruction hut at Llandwrog.
[black and white photograph of Herbert Adams, smoking, standing in front of a Nissen hut]
Beside our Nissen hut, below sea-level at Llandwrog, N. Wales,
[black and white photograph of Herbert Adams standing at the bottom of steps at Caernarvon Castle]
At one of the entrances to Caernarvon Castle.
When Val & I revisited in 1994, Val took a photo of me in the same spot.
[page break]
[cutting with photograph detailing the Tail Drift Sight, Mk. IVA]
We seldom used the tail drift sight, preferring to use the bombsight fitted to the Ansons, (not all) but the Fairey Battle had one something like this (simpler). Once we got on to Wellingtons (& later) we had GEE and no longer bothered to find drifts.
Dublin Core
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Title
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The war - training
Description
An account of the resource
Writes that he joined newly formed Air Training Corps at end of 1941 as this would give an accelerated position on the waiting list for aircrew. Describes training and sports. Called up into army 3 July 1942 and describes training in basic infantry and as a driver. After exam, was offered course at technical college and position as warrant officer instructor but turned it down. Called up into Royal Australian Air Force 12 September 1942 and initial training at RAAF Bradfield Park and writes about training there. Describes coordination test as pilot which he believed he fails and opting for navigator training. Posted to Cootamundra he fell ill which delayed his course but when recovered goes on to describe his early navigator training on Anson. There followed in August 1932 bombing and air gunnery training school at RAAF Evans Head where he flew in Fairy Battle followed by astro-navigation course at Parkes NSW. He then goes on to describe his journey to the United Kingdom(departed 26 November 1943) via the United State (crossed by train) and then by ship from New York to Greenock. Covers activities in England in Brighton and other locations before training in North Wales on Anson which he describes in detail. Memoire also contains photographs of people, aircraft and places as well as a diagram of the tail drift sight MkIVA.
Creator
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H G Adams
Format
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Thirty page handwritten document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Photograph
Identifier
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BAdamsHGAdamsHGv3
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
New South Wales--Ashfield
New South Wales--Liverpool
New South Wales--Lindfield
New South Wales--Evans Head
New South Wales--Parkes
United States
California--San Francisco
Illinois--Chicago
New York (State)--New York
Great Britain
Scotland--Greenock
England--Sussex
England--Brighton
England--Berkshire
England--Eton
England--Windsor (Windsor and Maidenhead)
California
Illinois
New York (State)
New South Wales
Temporal Coverage
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1942-07-03
1942-08-20
1943-10-22
1943-12-22
1944-01-01
1943-10-26
1944-06-21
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Tricia Marshall
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
Battle
Bennett, Donald Clifford Tyndall (1910-1986)
Bombing and Gunnery School
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
Nissen hut
Pathfinders
RAF Llandwrog
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/27238/BPattisonLEPattisonLEv2.2.pdf
aeeefce175b85bf44c34653c3689d720
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Adams, Herbert
Herbert Adams
H Adams
Herbert G Adams
Description
An account of the resource
88 items. Collection concerns Herbert George Adams DFC, Legion d'Honour (b. 1924, 424509 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, photographs of people and places, several memoirs about his training and bombing operations, letters to his family, his flying logbook and notes on navigation.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Herbert Adams and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-02-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Adams, HG
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[map of North Wales and the Midlands showing where Herbert Adams was stationed at Llandwrog]
A piece of the map-reading (topographical) map of Midland & Wales. The arrows show the A.F.U’s at Llandwrog & Mona where I & Sid trained. The other 2 arrows are to the castles at Caernarvon & Conway.
[page break]
[extract detailing the methods of use of the Douglas protractor with diagram]
This is one of the simple instruments used a lot in navigation chart work, along with a pair of dividers, a parallel rule & a pencil.
All our chart work was done on Mercator projection maps with a scale of 1:1000000 …. All the meridians were parallel, and latitudes at right-angles but further apart as latitude increased.
[page break]
[map of parts of the Midlands and Wales]
This piece of the Midlands & Wales map-reading map is to a scale of 1:500000 on a modified polyconic projection which results in shapes about as good as possible considering that the earth is spherical. The meridians converge about 5 cm in a map of their size for England’s latitude.
After we finished the A.F.U. course we left, & on 27th March, moved to Lichfield, No 27 OTU (Operational Training Unit) where we were to “crew-up”, and fly in Wellington bombers (designed by Barnes Wallis of Dambusters fame. Lichfield is not for NNE of Birmingham. The town has a nice cathedral
[page break]
At Llandwrog, and all later airfields, we used the Dalton computer for doing flight plans (given track, speed & wind-velocity – it works out course & ground speed.) and for all changes of direction &/or speed. It was a huge improvement on the C.S.C. we used at Cootamundra.
We had the loose-leaf pad disconnected.
[diagram of Dalton Navigational Computer Mk. IIID]
[page break]
[diagram of underside of Navigational Computer Mk. IIIH]
This reverse face of the Dalton computer is really a circular slide rule for quick calulations [sic] of time distance & speed.
The slots allowed setting of altitude and temperature for converting Indicated Air Speed (I.A.S.), to True airspeed; this was used on each leg of a flight plan.
[black and white photograph of a Wellington aircraft in the air]
We were at Lichfield from 27th Mar. to 21st June. We didn’t have our first flight in the Wellington until 20th Apr. the first few days involved “crewing-up” then a lot of ground work; pilots using simulators.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of a Wellington on the ground with airmen in front of it]
VICKERS-ARMSTRONG WELLINGTON
With a range of 3,200 miles and a heavy bomb-carrying capacity, the Wellington has figured prominently in attacks on enemy war concentrations. An all-metal structure, with fabric covering, its distinctive feature is the tail rudder. Wings (span 86 ft. 1 in.) and tailplane taper sharply. Guns are mounted in nose and tail, and a third turret, which is retractable, is situated under the fuselage.
Two 1,000 h.p. Bristol Pegasus XVIII air-cooled engines give a speed of 265 m.p.h. There is a crew of five.
The Wellingtons we flew were Mark X which had more powerful Bristol Hercules engines of about 1600 H.P. each. We crewed-up with 2 gunners who took turns in the rear turret … later on, the Sterlings & Lancasters had a mid-upper turret.
It is certified that I have received instruction in and fully understand the following Crew Drills:-
1. Parachute Drill. 2. Dinghy Drill.
3. Crash Landing Drills.
Date 12/4/44 Signature [signature]
CERTIFIED that I have received instruction on the Wellington III fuel and oil system and that I thoroughly understand the operation of this system and manipulation of the control.
[signature] Officer o/c Synthetic Fuselage. Signed [signature]
This was part of our “ground-work”; if the Wellington flew for more than 4 hours it was the job of the navigator to pump oil to the engines, using a hand-hydraulic pump inside the fuselage.
[page break]
[four drawings of Vickers Wellington aircraft]
[black and white photograph of six airmen standing in front of a hut]
Our crew at Lichfield L. to R. Eric Taylor W.O.P.
Bert Adams. Nav
Ken Nicholls, Rear Gunner.
Ray Giles, Mid-Upper Gunner.
Peter Gray-Buchanan. Pilot.
Sid Payne, Bomb-Aimer.
There was no official direction for crewing up. A couple of days were allowed (& nights in the sergeants mess) for us to “sort our selves [sic] out.” Sid Payne and I made a pair & we went looking for a pilot. I was able to boost Sid’s qualifications by telling that he’d begun as a pilot, passed EFTS on Tiger Moths, but was ‘scrubbed’ near the end of his SFTS on Wirraways … this plus his Observor [sic] training in Australia was the same as mine. Sid had worked, after leaving school, at the main office of the Dept of Road Transport, Bridge St., Sydney.
We joined up with a Pilot-W.O.P. combination from Queensland, looking for a likely nav-bombaimer pair. Both pairs seemed happy with each other. We began looking for gunners.
[page break]
It turned out that the two gunners who’d topped their AFU course had paired up and had a good look at the groups needing gunners. I guess we were lucky that they picked us.
Ken hailed from Sydney. I’m not sure if he’d already married Tina Mitchell from Mudgee or if they wed after the war. Tina’s mother was the live-in caretaker of the A.U.A. rooms in Market St. Ray came from a farmland district in W.A., he was 25 & married; the other 5 of us were all 20. Peter was a very quiet lad from a wealthy family in Brisbane – he’d spent some time as a jackaroo in Western Queensland. Eric was more extrovert and came from Mackay.
For navigation we were introduced to two invaluable aids. The first was the Air Position Indicator, or H.P.I. Up until now we had drawn manual air-plots on the chart, needing to change it for every alteration of course or speed & requiring the pilot to steer his course accurately & keep the speed constant (which may not be convenient over Germany). The A.P.I. had an input of airspeed, corrected for altitude & temperature to give True Air Speed; also it had an input of direction from a big Distant Reading Compass mounted near the tail of the plane (less magnetism from the engines there) which combined magnetic direction & gyro stability (2 seconds from each alternately I think); the resulting [inserted] magnetic [/inserted] direction was sent (by wire) to a V.S.C. above the Nav’s table where he set the Variation for that local area & any compass deviation for that direction thus feeding True directions to the A.P.I. and to the bombsight and to the pilots display.
[page break]
The A.P.I. had 2 knobs and scales. The nav. could set known latitude & longitude, (of his airfield normally), then as the plane flew, regardless of directions & speed changes, the API scales kept track of it all & gave latitude & longitude to the nearest 1 minute ([symbol] nearest 1 nautical mile) [underlined] relative to the air [/underlined] … so we had an automatic air plot.
Therefore if we flew for say 20 min. and got a FIX (known ground LAT + LONG), the difference between the FIX and the API reading would be the wind effect for that 20 min. Plotting both on the chart, measuring with protractor & dividers, allowed the nav. to get the wind velocity.
But getting accurate fixes (up ‘till now) mostly relied on map reading (not possible on dark nights or above cloud.).
Now enter the 2nd aid, called GEE. A box on the nav. table with an oscillograph screen & 2 knobs allowed the nav. to pick up pulsed radio signals from ground stations. The master station triggered 3 other stations (I think about 50 miles apart) and the GEE-box measured the differences in time for the pulses to reach the plane. The nav. only had to pick the better pair, twiddle the knobs to align the blips with that from the master station, flip a switch & read off 2 numbers from a scale, and note the time. We learnt to do that in 1/2 a minute or less. We had special GEE charts, just like our Mercator plotting charts, but overprinted with many curved lines, in 3 colours for the 3 stations, and numbers printed on the curves often enough for us to find where the 2 numbers met. That was our FIX, and it could then be transferred to the plotting chart with dividers.
[page break]
The curves on the charts gradually became to cut at shallower angles at long distances, but all over Britain, and as far as the front line in Germany, the GEE box gave fixed with an accuracy of 1/2 mile or less. This was enormously helpful, even though the Germans jammed the G.EE frequency so that we couldn’t read the blips much beyond the front line. Much of the first week or two at Lichfield was spent learning to use the API and GEE.
[extract detailing the purpose of the Astro Compass Mk. II with photograph]
We carried this in case of emergency, but didn’t have to use it. (I still have one in the shed, souvenired after VE day.)
[page break]
[underlined] AIR NAVIGATION [/underlined]
When we began learning air navigation, we had to rely on our pilot to fly straight and level on the compass course given without any alteration to airspeed. Thus we could keep an airplot, corrected for every change of course, speed or height. Pilots flew at an indicated air speed (IAS), which had to do with stalling-speed safety, but the true air-speed changed considerably with increased height (& a bit with temperature). For example, an IAS of 165 mph at 14000’, -8o C, gave a TAS of 206 mph to use on a manual air-plot. Also, the pilot flew on a magnetic compass course, which the navigator needed to correct to a true course allowing for magnetic variation (it was 11o W at Lincoln) and deviation due to metal in the aircraft (engines, bomb-load) and which varied with the direction flown … hence the need to “swing-the-compass” on the ground to record a deviation chart for use in the air.
A simple manual air-plot could look like this:-
[diagram]
By the time our training (in England) graduated to operational type aircraft (Wellingtons, Sterlings, Lancasters) we had the benefit of an Air Position Indicator (API) … a clever little black box with windows showing latitude & longitude to the nearest minute. These aircraft had a master compass (distant-reading) down towards the tail so that deviation would be minimal, and it fed magnetic direction to a Variation Setting Control (VSC) above the navigator’s table. The navigator set the VSC to the local variation & then repeater compasses for the pilot, bombsight & navigator all read [underlined] true [/underlined] directions.
[page break]
Also, the API had an input of I.A.S. altitude and temperature & (somehow) converted that to T.A.S. (true air speed). The API now had the 2 inputs which enabled it to produce an automatic air-plot, regardless of any changes of direction, speed, height or temperature! For shortish trips, we would set the A.P.I. to read the latitude & longitude of our airfield. On longer trips, or when expecting strong winds, the wind vector could become too long as to be cumbesome [sic] (longer than our parallel ruler). Early in our operations we would reset the API to the lat. & long. of a “good” fix … but after some errors in resetting (& perhaps a “bad” fix) we, later, offset the API to about 1/2 the expected wind vector so that it shrank for the first half of the trip, the [sic] grew again coming home … a much safer and more elegant solution to that problem.
With the API giving us air-position all the time, we now had the ability to find accurate wind-velocities whenever we could get a good fix. The most usual fix was from the GEE-box … a gadget about a 1’ cube size, which picked up radio pulses from ground stations spread across England & linked so that the master station triggered pulses from the other 2 stations. We could twiddle the 2 knobs to line up 2 lots of blips simultaneously, note the time & Air Position, then flick a switch which showed 2 lots of 3-figure “numbers” to draw in freehand arcs on special GEE-charts – and where the arcs crossed was a fix, quite accurate over & near England, less so as we got further away. And the Germans jammed the frequency so that we’d lose GEE about where the front-line existed. This generally meant we had about 2 hours of good wind-finding to allow us to amend the forecast winds sensibly and enable us to proceed to our target on dead-reckoning without seeing the ground for a visual fix.
[page break]
Our first 9 flights in Wellingtons were called Circuits & Landings. The first 6 were with an instructor pilot, then 3 with Peter going SOLO. I practiced GEE fixes (except that GEE-box didn’t work on 4 of them.) We did 4 daylight cross-country navigation trips (4 or 5 hours each) usually combining some bombing & gunnery practice, and 3 pure bombing flights, dropping 12 bombs singly each time. Then 4 dual flights with a pilot instructor at night and 4 more SOLO, circuits & landings. I practiced GEE fixes, and Eric did so on two of those flights. We did 4 night cross-country nav. flights with some gunnery & bombing practice, a gunnery trip with an instructor pilot and 5 gunners aboard, another solely bombing flight at 20000’, with Sid getting an average error of 165 yds. We also did a BULLSEYE flight where we and lots of other Wellingtons flew out over the North Sea as if to attack Wilhemshaven, while a large Bomber Command force flew in towards another target. We were a diversion hoping to divide their night-fighter reaction. We turned back before getting really close to land, saw no fighters nor searchlights, but had the privilege of counting that as one operational sortie.
In total at Lichfield we flew a bit over 77 hours, 1/2 of them at night. We left there for a week’s leave on 14th June. Our first stop was at Birmingham where we changed trains for London. We went first to the Boomerang Club in Australia House where we got the address of a Servicemans Club west of Kensington where we stayed for 17/6 a night, which was OK as we’d been told that London was expensive; we also got 4 lots
[page break]
of free Theatre tickets for stage shows, which we used, & they were worth about 16/- each. We did a couple of tours over some of the old historical places … the Tower, Abbey, St Pauls & the Art Gallery. Our 2 gunners were tee-totallers (a good thing we reckoned, as we knew a lot of gunners who drank a lot & often) so we put in a fair bit of time at cinemas and a visit to the Windmill theatre where music dancing & vaudeville acts seemed to be secondary to their showing of almost-nude girls who posed around the set without moving .. the sets were changed, the girls too, frequently. Most had elaborate headwear, feathers etc. We didn’t get about as a crew all the time. Sid, I think, went to a ballet or two … he often burst into song in bits of Italian while waving arms like a conductor. He did have a nice voice. Peter had some people to visit known to his older brother who’d already done a tour (probably 2 tours by now) as a rear-gunner on Lancasters. I went out to Taplow and revisited Margaret Vyner and her mother … a nice talk with lunch.
Our crew was pleased with the results on our course at Lichfield; I was rated above average & recommended for a commission, perhaps in 3 months. We heard a rumour that we’d next go to a conversion course on Halifaxes, then probably to an RAAF squadron on Lancasters, in 5 Group.
For our final night in London we decided we’d all visit the Savoy Hotel, the poshest nightspot. We had very little money left, so just bought a drink each, listened to the orchestra & prepared to leave.
[page break]
We were all Flight-Sergeants (we got automatic promotion after 6 months) & I guess stood out among the high-ranking officers (many American) and well-heeled Britons. One of them came over & introduced himself & invited us to join his table. We thanked him but said we’d no money, we just wanted to say we’d been to the Savoy. But he said they’d foot the bill, so we joined him & his wife & 2 daughters and an American Colonel. The man was the managing director of Lysaghts at Wollengong. He seemed pleased to hear where we were from and a bit about our training. There was a dance floor and a famous band, Carol Gibbons the leader. The girls wanted to dance. We all said we couldn’t dance, but I said I could waltz OK. Carol was called over & asked to play a waltz. I got up with one of the girls & the music was a jazz-waltz, which I couldn’t manage. (I should have asked for old-time, like the Blue Danube.) We stumbled around for a while, I very embarrassed, and retreated early to the table. Apart from that it was a great night-out, nice food, a few drinks and interesting conversations.
On return we were posted to 5 Group Air Crew Category School, on 21st June, at Scampton, just north of Lincoln. We were there for 10 days, but did no flying there. I can’t remember what we did do but I guess it was some sort of training.
We moved to 1660 H.C.U. (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Swinderby on 2nd July, where the planes were Sterlings … huge planes 100’ long; with tail undercarriage – no danger of losing you [sic] head walking under a propellor, as you can see from this photograph overleaf.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of a Sterling aircraft on the ground with a few airmen around it]
The Short Sterling. Our pilot Peter, hand on wheel, Ken, Sid & Eric at the end of the tailplane, Don Coutts our new Engineer with 2 of the ground crew closer to the plane & me, with Nav. bag & Ray Giles, our mid-upper gunner at the door.
Don, the engineer, had been a policeman in Coventry & Birmingham. He was “old”, about 42 I think. He was born in Scotland; his parents now lived in Ireland.
I read that the Sterling was originally designed to have a greater wingspan, perhaps 120’, but none of the regular hangers could take such width, so they clipped the wing design back without changing the rest of the design. They didn’t have 2-stage superchargers like the Lancasters, and although their big radial engines were more powerful than Merlins they didn’t perform well above about 15000’. So as more & more Halifaxes & Lancasters were built the Sterlings were used as trainers and as glider tugs, particularly in the big Market Garden debacle around Arnhem and in the Normandy invasion.
[page break]
This is about the sextant we carried in the nav. bag on all flights but never used on Operations. It came in a solid carrying box … I still have one that I “souveneered” [sic] after VE day. As well as charts, maps etc we had to carry the current Air Almanac & 1 or more books of A.N. Tables, each book only covered 4o of latitude, in a green canvas carry bag.
[extract detailing the methods of use of the Bubble Sextant with photograph]
[page break]
We did a bit over 48 hours of flying at Swinderby spread over a month. 10 of the 27 flights were with instructor-pilots doing day & night circuits & landings including 2 & 3 engined landings. 3-engined overshoots, corkscrews & banking searches, feathering propellors, fighter affiliation using cine-camera “guns”. Most of the other flights were bombings & gunnery, 3 cross-country nav. trips, and practice at all the other things mentioned above.
One “hairy” landing stands out. We’d had some wet weather & the grass verges beside the runways were boggy. Another pilot, trying to land in a cross-wind touched down with one wheel off the runway – the undercarraige [sic] collapsed & the plane plowed to a stop in the mud. We helped dig the bomb-aimer from the nose (he should not have been there for landing) where he was jammed up into the front turret by mud. The next day we were trying to do a 3-engined landing. The “rule” was, once you got below 1000’ on 3-engines you must land, … I guess the rule applied to emergency situations where the other engine couldn’t be restarted & may be some damage to the plane. Anyway, there was a cross-wind & when we were about to touch down, Peter said “we’re going around”, slammed the throttles forward & told the Engineer to get the 4th engine restarted. My job, on landings, was to call out the airspeed to save the pilot having to look down at the airspeed indicator. The stalling speed with flaps down was about 80 mph, and I’m calling 65, 65, 65 … while Peter juggled the controls to keep us just above the mud.
[page break]
He managed it and once the 4th engine started, the speed built up and we just cleared the hedges beyond the runway’s end. Peter was “dressed down” for ignoring the rule, but I reckon he saved them a Sterling … and us some bruises or worse.
We were moved from Swinderby to Syerston, a bit further S.W. of Lincoln on 12th of Aug. and got a week’s leave at once. I went to Edinburgh; Ray & Don were going to Rugby & Birmingham respectively & the others to London. I had intended joining them after 3 or 4 days, but since it wasn’t long since I’d been there, and they were getting a fair number of VI flying bombs I didn’t bother. While in the bath there someone stole my wallet including my identity card, army discharge papers, my pen & some other papers. Then on the way back to Lincoln, I stopped for a meal at Newcastle & someone stole my gas-mask bag which also held my pay-book, log book, & the few clothes etc. I took for a week. I was in big trouble (reprimanded) for losing the identity car, and inconvenienced for 2 months of no pay, until a duplicate pay-book was arranged. Months later the police at Newcastle sent the log-book back.
A couple of pages on, I’ve underlined the airfields we trained at on the map, with Lincoln near the top, & have shown Waddington & Wigsley underlined too.
At Syerston we converted to Lancasters … it was called 5 L.F.S. (Lancaster Finishing School). We did 9 flights totalling 18 hours, 5 of them with an instructor pilot, doing circuits & landings, 3-engined overshoots & landings, corkscrews & banking searches.
We moved from there to No 467 Squadron (RAAF) at Waddington on 7th of September.
[page break]
I’d forgotten, but while were [sic] still at Syerston we went in to Nottingham to the indoor swimming pool, and practiced dinghy drill … all the crew working together had to learn the technique of turning it upright from being upside down as they may be that way after being automatically ejected & inflated in case the plane crashes in the sea. We managed it OK although it was a shock putting on cold wet Mae Wests before diving into the cold water; I can imagine it might be much tougher at night in a rough sea. We had time for lunch & a wander in the town. Peter has bought a second-hand Ford 10 sedan for $25, which he & Don have “restored” to good running condition. Civilians get no coupons for petrol. Doctors etc. get a ration. Airmen on Operations get about 5 gallons a quarter, with some more if going on leave to a place not serviced by train. I had an auto-cycle … like a pushbike with a tiny 2-stroke engine, and was able to scrounge a little petrol from some of the drivers of the transports which took us out (& back) to the planes … a bottle full now & then. It need [sic] a bit of pedalling going up steep grades. I was given a licence to ride it, drive a car/truck/tractor merely by showing my expired Aussie licence … no test, just pay the small fee.
After settling in to our nice brick, centrally-heated room, 6 of our crew down one side, 6 of another crew on the other side, 8 rooms altogether like that, in our block, with toilets & ablutions in the centre of the [symbol] (same upstairs) all the new crews, 8 of us, assembled in the C.O.s office next day for a welcome talk. The C.O. was Wing Commander Bill Brill, originally from Ganmain.
[page break]
[map of Lincolnshire detailing RAF bases]
He and another young man from Ganmain, Arthur Doubleday, had enlisted early in the war. Both had done 2 tours with Bomber Command. Bill had earned D.S.O., D.F.C and Bar, & I think Arthur had the same decorations … he was then C.O. of 463 squadron also at Waddington, though he soon moved on.
[page break]
One of the things Bill told us Flight-Sergeants was that if we applied for a commission after about 20 Operations he’d recommend anyone who hadn’t done something stupid. What he didn’t say was that he didn’t want to waste time interviewing those who hadn’t got that far because a lot of them wouldn’t. As it turned out, when we finished our tour in Jan ’45, only 3 of the 8 crews remained.
After he finished his welcome talk, he dismissed the other 7 crews, and asked us to go up with him for a dual check, airtest. The reason he favoured us was that Peter’s older brother had been his rear gunner in his first tour. (Years later I met Arthur Doubleday at Wagga where he addressed Air Force Association members. I had an invitation and I mentioned Bill & Peter’s brother. He said “Old Buck eh, I had him as my rear gunner in my second tour.” Small world eh?)
He seemed satisfied with the way Peter handled the Lancaster, until he asked him to do a corkscrew. Then he took over the wheel (the Lanc’s [sic] had dual controls although only 1 pilot in the crew) and showed how he’d do it. He said the Lanc. was tough, you wouldn’t hurt it by being harsh with the controls even with a big bomb load. So it was “down port”, with a vengeance, really steep diving turn, “down starboard” still steep but faster, up port, up starboard as usual – quite harsh on the controls. He had Peter copy him.
When we’d landed he told us that there was an easy daylight Operation on Le Havre coming up on the 10th & he’d put us on for our 1st Op. despite Peter not having first done a “second-dickie” operation with another crew.
[page break]
The next day we did 2 flights, the first a fighter affiliation with cine-camera “guns”, the second a 5 hr 4 min cross-country navigation exercise with 6 bombs at the end, with Sid getting an ‘A’ assessment.
We did our first Operation the next day on Le Havre. I have already done some commentary, along with my original logs & charts for our tour of Ops, so I’ll leave that & just mention that Peter did his “second-dickie” the next night, 11th Sept. on Damstadt; and I’ll digress a bit about the lead up to D-Day and the months that followed, particularly from the viewpoint of Bomber Command.
Up until that time a tour of operations was 30 trips, and 20 more for a second tour. Because Bomber Command (I’ll use B.C. from now on) did so many short trips leading up to D-Day, and for some time after, they raised the quota for a tour to 36 trips, which was the case when we bombed Le Havre. From June to August, B.C. maintained a running battle against VI “buzz-bomb” launch sites & supply depots; these were short trips and once they eased off in August, the quota was lowered to 33 Ops. in mid-September. By the end of ’44, many of B.C.’s ops were longish, so the quota was back to 30 again, in time for us to end our tour on 16 Jan ’45.
When we started Ops, the maximum all-up-weight for take-off was 63000 lb. It was found that Lancasters handled that so well so that it was raised to 65000 lb approaching winter. Then, they replaced the existing Merlin engines with a later Mark, & raised the max. weight to 67000 lb in November. And 617 squadron (Special Ops) later carried the 20000 lb “grand slam” bomb with take-off weight 72000 lb.
[page break]
Here are some Extracts from “The Hardest Victory – RAF Bomber Command in WWII by Dennis Richards. (Hodder & Stoughton, 1994.).
The Transportation Plan, preparatory to OVERLORD … the invasion in Normandy. As part of the plan to convince the Germans that the landings would be in the Pas de Calais, far more bridges & railway workshops & marshalling yards were attacked North of the Seine than South of it. In this phase, B.C. dealt with 37 of the railway targets, American 8th Air Force heavies 26, and AEAF (fighters, fighter-bombers, light & medium bombers & reconnaissance planes, a mixture of RAF & USAAF squadrons) 20. B.C. dropped nearly 45000 tons on these centres, twice the tonnage of the other 2 combined. Harris in “Bomber Command” wrote:- “B.C.’s night bombing proved to the rather more accurate, much heavier in weight & more concentrated than the American daylight attacks, a fact which was afterwards clearly recognised by SHAEF when the time came (later) for the bombing of German troop concentrations within a mile or so of Allied troops.”
In this Transportation phase, B.C. made 69 attacks, flew 9000 sorties & lost 198 planes (1.8 percent loss rate). They caused enormous damage. At the end about 2/3 of the 37 centres were completely out of action for a month or longer, with the remainder only needing some further “attention” from fighter-bombers.
Unhappily, the toll of friendly civilian lives was sometimes more than the “prescribed” limit of 100-150 per raid. (Coutrai 252, Lille 456, Ghent 482), but the overall total was much less than the 10000 people they hoped would not be reached.
The attacks on rail centres by all 3 air forces
[page break]
proved catastrophic for the German armies. Only about 12 percent of rolling stock was fit for use. A division from Poland took 3 days to get to West Germany, then 4 weeks to the Normandy battlefront!
During the struggle in Normandy, B.C. operated in strength close to battlefields. On the night of 14/5 June, 337 planes attacked troops & vehicles at Aunay and Eurecy (near Caen). On 30th June, B.C. did its first daylight raid … 266 Lanc’s [sic] & Hali’s [sic] & a few Mosquitos, with Spitfire escort bombed a road junction at Villers-Bocage from 4000’ and thwarted a Panzer attack. Of B.C.’s 5 other attacks in close support, the biggest was on 18th July … operation GOODWOOD … a maximum effort involving 1056 heavies of B.C. and 863 American bombers to help the push SE of Caen towards Falaise … but bad weather and unsubdued anti-tank guns stopped the push at 6 miles at best. However, it impressed the Germans. Von Kluge, who’d just replaced Rommel, wrote to Hitler on 21st Jul.:- “There is no way by which, in the face of the enemy air forces’ complete command of the air, we can discover a form of strategy which will counterbalance the annihilating effects [underlined] unless we withdraw from the battlefield. [/underlined] Whole armoured formations allotted to counter-attack were caught beneath bomb carpets of the greatest intensity so that they could be rescued from the torn-up ground only by prolonged effort. The psychological effect of such a mass of bombs coming down with all the power of elemental nature on the fighting forces, especially the infantry, is a factor which has to be taken into very serious consideration. It is immaterial whether such a carpet catches good troops or bad. They are more or less annihilated, & above all their equipment is shattered.” (He suicided a month later when Hitler wouldn’t allow a withdrawal.)
[page break]
On 7/8 Aug. (night), 1019 heavies of BC. raided 5 points ahead of Allied troops … helping the Canadian 1st Army to open the way to Falaise.
The Allies had 14000 aircraft against Germany’s 1000 in those weeks. By 3rd Sept the British 2nd Army was in Brussels, but had by-passed the ports which were needed to boost supplies to the troops. Le Havre & Dieppe were left surrounded, but the attack inland aimed at Antwerp (the biggest port) swung inland leaving Boulogne, Calais & Dunkirk and a bit of territory East of the coast still strongly held by Germans, including the Schelt [sic] estuary, leading to Antwerp, which was heavily mined and defended by heavy guns both on its south bank and on Walcheren Island to the North.
B.C.’s resumption of attacks on oil targets were delayed by the V1 threat. Hitler had hoped to begin mass attacks by VI’s on London as a “New Year Present” in Jan ’44, but damage to “ski” sites & raids on the Fiesler works at Kassel, plus their own trouble getting the bomb to function reasonably, caused set-backs. Allied bombing of railways held up deliveries of launchers & bomb components. It wasn’t until 12/13 June that the first VI attacks occurred, & then only 7 of 55 sites managed to launch a total of 10, of which only 3 reached England. But on the 2 nights of 15/6 & 16/7 June, 144 crossed the Kentish coast and 73 reached London.
In operation CROSSBOW, B.C. & 8th US Air Force and AEAF attacked VI sites from Mid-June to mid-August, using 40 percent of B.C.’s strength. Targets were the modified launch sites, supply depots, and “large sites” preparing to launch the big VII rockets.
[page break]
B.C. attacked these day & night; they flew 16000 sorties, & dropped 59000 tons of bombs on VI & VII targets only losing 131 planes, a loss rate of less than 1 percent.
By mid-August, there was less need, because of better defences (A.A. & fighters began using proximity fuses on shells, that with balloons resulted in less than 20 percent reaching their target, and finally the Canadian & British armies over-ran the launching sites.
On every day but one from 5th to 11th September B.C. sent 300 or more heavies to bomb the German-held territory at Le Havre. The total for the week was 2500 sorties dropping 9750 tons. The ground attack there on 11th, after the last air-raid, captured the port, and a lot of Germans with only 50 fatalities. However, the garrison had destroyed the port facilities; it was not able to be used by ships until mid-October. (Our first ‘Op’ was on the 10th, as part of 992 heavies that day.)
A week later, on 17 Sept, BC. did a big raid on Boulogne … 762 heavies, opening the way for an attack by the Canadian Army. The garrison surrendered on Sept 22nd. A quote from a diary of a captured German officer:- “Sometimes one could despair of everything if one is at the mercy of the RAF without any protection. It seems as if all fighting is useless & all sacrifices in vain.”
The Canadian Army captured these 2 ports, plus Dieppe (without a fight), plus the big cross-channel batteries at Cap Gris Nez, losing only 1500 men, but capturing 29945 prisoners. However it took over a month to repair the port at Boulogne, and all of them, including Cherbourg were unable to unload the big crates of heavy equipment from USA … the cranes were beyond repair, so the big crates had to be unloaded in England then ferried across the Channel.
[page break]
This slowing of supplies plus Eisenhower’s reluctance to stop the American armies in the south, especially Patton’s 3rd Army, slowed the Canadian advance on the Schelt [sic] Estuary due to lack of supplies; and probably influenced Montgomery to plan Market Garden without enough support from the British Army, who hadn’t enough supplies. (Bad luck and bad weather & bad radios also contributed to the actual failure of Market Garden.).
[black and white photograph of two men. One laying in bed and one sitting up]
Ken Nicholls & Bert in our room, sergeants quarters at Waddington, late 1944.
[black and white photograph of two men loading bombs into the bomb-bay of an aircraft]
Loading 1000 bombs into D-Dog’s bomb-bay.
[black and white photograph of six airmen standing in front of an aircraft]
Morrie & Rupe (ground crew)
Ken Nicholls, Ken (“ “ mechanic)
Don Coutts, Ray Giles near tail of D-Dog.
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Title
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H Adams memoir - training and operations
Description
An account of the resource
Shows maps of North Wales and the Midlands as well as an explanation of the Douglas protractor as well as diagrams of the Dalton computer and photographs of Wellington. Describes training at RAF Lichfield from end of March to 21 June 1944. Shows photograph of his crew which he describes as well as crewing up process. Describes navigation techniques in great detail using air position indicator, GEE and astro and crew navigation procedure. Describes first trip in Wellington as well as subsequent training flights. Goes on to describe post course leave including visits to the theatre and historical places in London as well as other activities. Goes on to describe training at RAF Swinderby on Heavy Conversion Unit flying Stirling. Describes flights including one hairy landing. Then moved to Syerston where they did Lancaster Finishing School before moving to RAF Waddington 467 Squadron. Describes arrival on squadron and first operation to Le Havre. Writes that because of short trips during Normandy campaign tours were now extended to 36 trips as well as describing bomber command's targeting strategy. Then provides some extracts from "The Hardest Victory - RAF Bomber Command in WWII by Dennis Richards". Followed by photographs of people and aircraft.
Creator
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H G Adams
Format
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Twenty-eight page handwritten document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Map
Photograph
Technical aid
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Conforms To
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Pending review
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales
England--Staffordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--London
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-03-27
1944-06-21
1944-08-12
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-30
1944-07-18
1944-08-07
1944-08-08
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Tricia Marshall
Identifier
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BPattisonLEPattisonLEv2
1660 HCU
27 OTU
467 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
bombing
crewing up
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Lichfield
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Mona
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Waddington
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington