1
25
17
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/371/PBarfootW1631.1.jpg
8e2ba5ef13ffe8cde485cbaa7b86885b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gliders and tugs at RAF Tarrant Rushton
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBarfootW1631
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Dorset
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Description
An account of the resource
Oblique aerial photograph of the may runway running left bottom to top right; on the southern end are two lines of sixteen Hamilcar gliders with further Hamilcars dispersed in the background. On the grass each side of the runway are parked fourteen Halifax Mk 3 facing inwards at an oblique angle. All aircraft carry invasion stripes.
The description of this item is partially based on information provided by the donor. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form: no better quality copies are available.
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocated
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Hamilcar
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Tarrant Rushton
runway
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/377/PBarfootW1637.1.jpg
69fc9215d3d1cf7c5c85c89b199f513a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Glider landing zone at Wolfheze
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBarfootW1637
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Reconnaissance photograph of gliders which have landed in a field, showing skid marks. The majority of the gliders are Horsa's, with three of the larger Hamilcar gliders visible in the field to the right. This is drop zone Z for Operation Market Garden. Some Horsa's have overshot and landed in the wood near the Utrecht-Arnhem railway line which is in the top left. The asylum is amongst the woodland to the top of the photograph. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form: no better quality copies are available.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Netherlands
Netherlands--Wolfheze
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocated
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-09
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Stuart Cummins
aerial photograph
Hamilcar
Horsa
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/383/PBarfootW1643.1.jpg
76eac87d0d4f548e918d3fae5518956f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Halifax towing Hamilcar glider
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBarfootW1643
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Air to air view of a Halifax towing a Hamilcar glider above a military camp set in open countryside. Both aircraft carry invasion stripes. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form: no better quality copies are available.
Halifax
Hamilcar
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/141/1446/PBanksP15010035.2.jpg
b4fb8645ef5c64d56f4397931b852b86
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Banks, Peter. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
134 items. The album contains pictures taken at RAF Methwold and Feltwell, Battles in France as part of the RAF Advanced Air Striking Force in 1940, 2 Group target photographs, and Venturas and Photographic Reconnaissance Unit Spitfires. There are also a number of aerial photographs of cities and targets in the Ruhr and the Low countries taken at low level during a sightseeing Cooks tour after VE Day. <br /><br />Return to the <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/140">main collection</a>.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One photograph album
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBanksP1501
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hamilcar gliders near Wesel
Germany Hamilcar gliders near Wesel
Description
An account of the resource
Aerial inclined photograph showing open countryside with fields, woods and occasional buildings. In the bottom left is a field containing a large number of gliders gathered and parked close together in a corner at the far end. There are a number of prominent tire tracks at the near end of this field and a wood with four buildings beyond it. Captioned 'Germany "Hamilcar" Gliders Nr Wesel'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph mounted on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBanksP15010035
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending geolocation
aerial photograph
Cook’s tour
Hamilcar
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/6645/ABarfootWE151208.2.mp3
1b5f298e0d48f0992512af90412e5b70
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB. My name is Chris Brockbank and I am with Squadron Leader William Barfoot and we are in Birmingham talking about his very varied experiences in the war. Bill would you like to start off with your early days, where you were born where you were schooled.
WB. I was born in Newcastle upon Tyne so I’m a Geordie, but I was taken to India when I was about six, five or six and I didn’t come back to just before the war. In India I went to that school the Laurence Memorial Royal Military School now called the Laurence School. It em its a military school in that you couldn’t go to the school unless you had been in the British Army or the British Navy, the Air Force wasn’t in great shape at that time, and your parents had to be one of those two. And then er I just had a secondary school education, I left school in 1936 and I went to Bombay University because the intention was to send me to either Oxford or Cambridge, both required Latin in those days and I hadn’t done Latin and I hadn’t done Latin because we done localised languages like Undra. So I went to the University to learn Latin and then eh, differences arose in the family of the financing of the thing so I left India altogether and eh came back to this country, when I came back to this country we [garbled] and so on. As a side line I was invited to stay at some Barracks in Woking, I forget the name of the Barracks now with the Father of two daughters, I eventually married one of them. [laugh]. I was twenty and seventeen, I actually met them in India before I came here, but they were in school and I was at a different school, so we didn’t really get to know each other until I came back to this country and I was seventeen. I was twenty and she was seventeen so that was a dangerous situation. I then got married and later on during the war, it’s the only dish. Incidentally I can’t give dates because we have lost the vital documents that would have given us this information, namely the flying log book and we have moved about four times after I left the Air Force and somewhere it has got lost. At least we haven’t found it yet, this is the point. So I can’t give you dates but I can tell you places I went to. I started off with, oh, I applied for a short service commission and I was accepted but then hostilities broke out. I then got a letter that cancelled the short service commission, so I then joined the Air Force as an Airman at a place I can’t remember now in London. We didn’t do much there except possibly square bashing, we were issued with uniforms and the usual sort of things, and the one, the one point when there, we were all given ten shillings in advance to buy blanco and shoe polish and what have you and it so happened that almost the same week there was a pay parade and we of course had to attend because discipline required it. There, there was a chap called Manning, that’s right. Puffy Manning we called him because he was a bit plump. The drill was of course, the Accounting Officer he would sit at the table and he would have an accounting Airman there. The Airman would call out your name and you would actually, this was the last three numbers of your name, walk up to the desk, salute and collect the money. Well Puffy Manning did all this correctly and the Clerk read out two shillings and sixpence. The Accounting Officer put a half crown on the thing. Puffy Manning tossed it up in the air and it bounced off the table and Puffy Manning said “buy yourself a cigar Sir.” Apparently the Station Warrant Officer nearly fainted and he said “arrest that man” and of course he was taken away to the Guard Room. He was very lucky because his Flight Commander was quite sympathetic and let him off with a caution. So anyway that’s what happened at that place which I can’t remember now. Em after that, where did I go then? Oh went to,” Nigel what’s the name of that place where we came in?”
Nigel “Kidderminster”
WB. Kidderminster, yes where there was a [unreadable] where we did one, to the front salute and all that sort of stuff, sort of bashing. After that I was taken to an airfield called Hullavington which was near Chippenham and over there, it was at the time when there was a fear of German invasion you know Dunkirk was just over. We were issued with obsolescent Canadian rifles and five rounds of ammunition to deal with the invasion of the Germans. Eh, Eh one night an old German aircraft flew over the airfield and scattered a few bombs on the airfield. We then said this is it you know, this is the invasion. So we all rushed out to our appointed positions but then it all went quiet and nothing happened. We stayed there for about two hours and suddenly there was a shot and the Orderly Officer went to see what it was all about. The airman said “I saw a movement down there and challenged him three times, he didn’t answer, so I shot.” He shot a horse, the Farmer was exactly delighted the next day. Anyway that’s what happened at Hullavington.
I worked in the cookhouse funnily enough there and eh [garbled] a parade a [unreadable] parade. I worked in the cookhouse and we were excused the parade. We used to all stand there and present arms with a broom and sing here comes the Air Vice Marshall he’s got lots and lots of rings but only got one arsehole.[laugh] Anyway from there, from Hullavington I then went to Yatesbury eh, and Compton Bassett, both close together and where I trained as a Wireless Operator eh. I was, we flew in Dragons I think or whatever they were called.
CB. Dragon Rapide
WB. That’s right Dragon Rapide, for practice at sending messages and receiving messages on the flight. I don’t know how long the course lasted but it was quite long. I learnt morse, its abolished now, but I tell you what, my morse code. Everybody who learns morse never forgets it and I got up to about twenty two words a minute which was quite good at that time. After Yatesbury and Compton Bassett I then was posted to Digby to Number 46 Squadron, Hurricanes as a Wireless Operator. We did sort of servicing on the Aircraft. The Squadron was then moved down to eh, forgot the name of the place to eh, Sherburn in Elmet which is in Yorkshire. My Squadron moved down there and shortly afterwards they eh, were detailed to go out to the Middle East. I was held back because I had volunteered for Aircrew. I told the admin staff and the next thing was to go down to London to ACRC which we called arsey tarsey of course. You get a written examination, virtually all maths and eh after that I was sent to Downing College in Cambridge where we did our initial training, were we learned the various fundamentals of the various activities in the Air Force. After Cambridge, after that eh, oh my next movement was to the EANS or Elementary Air Navigation School at a place near Brighton. Town near Brighton.
Prompt. Where at Eastbourne.
WB. At Eastbourne, we occupied the Eastbourne Grammar School and eh and that’s where we learned the very early functions of Navigation. After that, which place did I go from there? Oh yes I think it was called Heaton or High Heaton or something like that, it was the holding place for people travelling abroad. And so ah, I was put aboard an aircraft, I have forgotten the name of the ship, they were all Castle ships, something Castle you know and eh. We sailed first to Brazil of all places eh where we went ashore and were made very welcome and eh we crossed over to Capetown and eh we got off at Capetown and went by rail to a place called Grahamstown which is the sort of University town of South Africa where we were made very welcome because most of the people there were of British origin, so we had a lovely time there. Then we began to train Navigation seriously, flying in Ansons with South African Pilots and I forgot how long the course took. I think it took quite a time about six months, I could be wrong eh. I was then Commissioned as a Pilot Officer and we went to another ship of course to cross the Atlantic with the Italian prisoners of war. We put them out in New York and filled the, and filled the boat or ship with American soldiers to come back to the UK. Funnily enough I remember it was the time the Dambusters broke the Dams and the New York papers were full of it and they made a great fuss of us did the Americans. I remember two of them, when I was with a friend and someone stopping me to give me theatre tickets to go in. Incidentally the pound was worth four dollars in those days so it was quite expensive. Anyway we then sailed back to UK I think we went to Greenock I think, I can’t really remember we were given two, two weeks holiday on leave, eh. That’s when I went to, the only days I can remember for that period is the 27th of May Nineteen fift, Nineteen forty three which is of course the date I got married. I subsequently lived with her for sixty nine and a half years and then she died. Then we went back and went to Wigtown which is in Scotland, that was an advanced flying unit we flew in Ansons and then we went to Kinloss. When we went to Kinloss the funny thing that happened we were just turned into a room, a crowd of people, most of whom were Sergeants and told to form Crew em. Inevitably because there were more Sergeants than anything else I ended up in a Crew where I was the only Officer the rest were all Sergeants. We then had a mixed period which I forget. I remember an airfield and a road travelling through it, I can’t remember what the name of the airfield was. And we very shortly found out why we were sent on various courses. I was sent on a Gee course, Gee was then the, the very sensational Navigation Aid. The first time we had anything that was anything like accurate you know sort of like Astro Navigation you were jolly lucky to get ten miles from your accurate position. Where as with Gee you got right to the spot and it was absolutely sensational. The other thing I did during that period I did a map reading course in Tiger Moths at Worcester Race Course and just flew around, very happy times. I got on very well with the Pilot had a go of flying the Tiger Moth but we were all over the place.
The reason being off course, we were being held back for 296 Squadron, which had, was returning from the Middle East and. We were held back because we were going to reinforce them and they were, where were they? Earls Colne that where they reformed. I was made the Squadron Navigation Officer because we only had two Officers amongst the Navigators and This is where we went with Albemarle’s for the first time, we never heard of Albemarle’s before, it was the only aircraft in the RAF that had a tricycle undercarriage and therefore very suitable for glider towing. You know the glider goes off first and then you go off and, and eh we started operating from there [Garbled]. We later moved to Brize Norton and Brize Norton became our permanent base. But we flew from Earls Colne for quite a while. We spent time reinforcing French Resistance Groups but obviously it was a slow process because you had to organise the Group. They also did Norway as well in the Albemarles. The Albemarle was a very bad aircraft for the Navigator because they had forgotten that they needed a Navigator. It had switches all over the place, down there, up there later on when we converted to Halifax’s it was absolute luxury to have all these instruments in front of you. But eh, eh, anyway we flew surprise Resistance Groups, they didn’t come too often because, obviously I had to organise the Groups carefully because the Gestapo were on the lookout all the time. We used to fly round about six thousand feet and then we would have to find the Resistance Group which usually had four torches in a field in the form of an arrow and the bottom line of the arrow would flash a code, Morse code, which we had been given. When we saw that we dropped down to about five hundred feet and dropped the supplies and flew on so the Gestapo didn’t see, the whereas, dropped there and turning away and that’s what we did. We did one or two in Norway as well but Norway was a bit frightening because it was a bit mountainous compared with France.
The other thing was our other function on Special Operations was towing of gliders. It was obvious there was going to be a big glider operation and they needed these Crews trained. The trouble with the, with towing gliders is A. Your speed drops, you get down to Anson speeds and secondly you can’t manoeuvre because you have a glider full of Troops behind you. So when we went on and we did the first one was D day, when you went on these Operations you had a very hairy Fighter Escort. You needed it because you were very vulnerable funnily enough we didn’t lose many because by then we had complete Air Superiority and eh you didn’t get too much interference. We did two other glider operations, one was at Arnhem in Holland and that was a disaster. Not from the air point of view we dropped them all in the right place at the right time. The thing was the Intelligence had not discovered there was a German Armoured Division in Holland and of course our Troops who were Airborne Troops were comparatively lightly armed of course they suffered very heavy casualties and eh. They were supposed to capture the Bridge at Nijmegen so the Second Army I think it was could proceed on and race towards Berlin, but they never got the Bridge of course. As I have said they had very heavy casualties and eh, that was that.
The third operation that we had with gliders was eh, Rhine crossing and we were getting near the end of the war there and eh, the eh, Germans put some of the Troops, in the woods resting from Operations, not too far away and eh so we were detailed for the first time ever to carry bombs. Bye the way we now had converted to Halifax’s for the [unreadable]. We had Albemarle’s for the other two eh, for the Rhine crossing we had Halifax’s which were much better. All your equipment from the Navigator point of view, direct compass everything, everything, APR all the lot was in the one compartment. You could see it all in front of you where as in the Albemarle you were doing this sort of thing. The other advantage of the Halifax, I sat on the escape hole but we didn’t need to use it. We did in fact loose our Rear Gunner, but that was not our aircraft. His friend had a girlfriend in the local village and he had a date with her that night so Jimmy Osall who was our Rear Gunner offered to stand in for him, instead of him, never came back. After that more or less the war was beginning to end then we flew eh, incidentally we did convert to Stirling’s before we went to Halifax’s but fortunately we never used the Stirling. Something I didn’t mention when I spoke about Kinloss, we flew Whitley’s there and, and, it was known as the flying coffin of course and it was a very slow aircraft, only had two engines , it was supposed to be a bomber. We did cross country flying but they didn’t risk sending us on Operations in them because we would never have come back.
Anyway we then flew VIPs, from,who fled to England during the Invasion by and large VIPs we flew them to Oslo. We also flew eh, Concentration Camp survivors to Greece, we did two of those and I think that was the end of the war and I was then posted to, oh yes I was posted to Staff Navigator Course after the war ended and eh and I was posted to when I had done the course, I done that at Shawbury by the way. When I done that course I was, I was em where was I then, oh yes I went to join 242 Squadron it was a Transport Squadron flying to the Far East. Eh, we were stationed at Oakington in Cambridge. Then we were moved to a place near Christchurch, Mosley, Mousley something like that Moseley which upset my Wife quite much because she got really settled in Cambridge and rather liked it and so did I. So I got onto the Navigation Boss, where was he? I have forgotten where he was and I said I wanted to go back to Cambridge. So eh ah they managed to sort it out, so I left 242 Squadron and went back to Cambridge, this time to Waterbeach which was also a Cambridge airfield, or was. Then vacancies were coming up the Air Force was running short, we hadn’t got a third category of Navigator, a specialist Navigator and a specialist Navigator was supposed to liaise with Scientists on possible uses for Navigation purposes. Em so I went on that course, also to Shawbury, Shawbury[unreadable] Empire Navigation School. Was then the central Navigation School for Navigation purposes and that’s where I went for the and then after that I was posted to er, where was it, near Darlington.
Interruption. Middleton St George.
WB. Middleton St George, yes Middleton St George where I was teaching Navigation to Bomb Aimers who had converted to Navigators em and eh. Then after that I then ended up to, to em oh that incidentally is when Nigel was born. I went to, we went to Ceylon where we were stationed at Degummed airfield. Em [unreadable] nothing there and then after about a year in Ceylon I was posted to Singapore and eh in Singapore, I was promoted to Squadron Leader then. I became Airhead Forces Malaya Navigation Representative and eh and advised them on Navigation. What did we do, I did do .The Korean War was on at the same time and some of our aircraft in Malaya were taking part in the war, mostly Flying Boats that were patrolling the seas around Korea. They were having trouble with the long range Navigation aid that the Americans had invented [unreadable] to Gee. They were having trouble with it, so I was sent via Hong Kong out in another Flying Boat to see if they could correct it which I succeeded to do and I flew on ops in Korea in the Flying Boat. And also at the same time we got a Typhoon, or what are the local thingies called, probably call a Tsunami now, which badly damaged one of the Flying Boats. So I got signal back from HQ Malaya to investigate the damage to this Flying Boat. I then came back to the UK, I then came back to Singapore and that’s when I came to the UK.
Then I went to the Air Ministry for about a year and then I was posted to Castle Bromwich as Station Commander. I em, we still had several lodger units there. 7 Police District, an ATC unit and Army AOP Flight, 2605 Fighter Control eh Fighter Exercise. We had several aircraft Austers and AOP Flight I forget what they flew, gliders for the ATC, University Air Squadron, Chipmunk, they were on our eh, my airfield and I think that was about it, the lot of them. Eh after that I was posted, I oh, I did two years or we did two years at Castle Bromwich where we did Battle of Britain Displays each and we were eh, highest in the Country. I don’t know if it was because the people of Birmingham were very generous. I think part of it was that we had the British Industries Fair at the side. We done quite well out of that I should think we charged them a pound for parking there eh that pushed up the Benevolent fund and we did quite well out of it I should think.
Then I got my last posting which was to run the Staff Navigation Course at Shawbury. So I had three goes at Shawbury. I liked Shawbury it was one of my favourite airfields and then I left the Air Force. And and Then I went over to BMC as the em Career and eh ah as the representative to the Caribbean that was [laugh] that was a treat. It was just after, we were still on rations in this country and to go there on one of the Islands and order a steak and get something about that big, it was quite an experience. Anyway from then on of course I was in Civvy Street. So I eh finished up doing Management Training in eh training. I was an expert in a technique called [unreadable] which was problem solving and decision making and eh, “what was the other course?” [little confused] “my minds going” [pause].
Nigel? “Transaction Analysis.”
CB. Transaction Analysis yes.
CB. We’ll have a break now.
WB. Yeah. I carried on teaching at, it wasn’t BMC any longer or Leyland as it had been called. But I did several courses for er for the Systems which eventually became, eventually became Unipart didn’t it? I ran a few courses and then no more and lapsed into old age.
CB. What age did you retire?
WB. Sixty five I retired but I still continued to go back to run the odd course. I’d just got paid a fee. That’s about it.[pause]
CB. You ok?
[Possibly a break in the recording]
WB. Its called Decca
CB. We are just talking about Gee and the fact that the Germans jammed it, but you could tell they were jamming it. How did that show on the screen?
WB. The screen went all like that eh eh.
CB. What was the next system?
WB. It was, well Bomber Command resorted to Pathfinders where they used Mosquitoes with things like H2S and eh and other eh quite a lot of stuff that the Mosquitoes carried and they marked the target with em.
CB. With coloured flares ?
WB. With coloured flares, yes and they presumably new the colours beforehand so the Germans could not mark, put these things into operation.
CB. So after, you said there was a different system after Gee, what sort.
WB. Decca
CB. How did that work.
WB. It was similar to Gee, it was very, Gee had a very short range compared with the other things. Decca had a better range, the thing about Decca was that it could be made to give you the wrong information without you realising it. In other words it was possible for the enemy or the Germans if you like to make the Decca instrument read something else and you would not know.
CB. And that’s what they did?
WB. The RAF refused to have anything to with it. They did Air Commodore Death, he was flying over the North Pole they did use Decca for that occasion. But then of course the war was long over, but they wouldn’t touch it as a eh eh Navigational Instrument. In fact now they don’t even have Navigators so never mind eh. Now they have all these Satellites and Computers and what have you and Laser Beams. They don’t need Navigators, they don’t need Wireless Operators either, there is no need for Morse. I eh as far as I know the Tornado isn’t eh doesn’t carry defensive guns as far as I know.
CB. Can we go back to when you were doing your Flying Training in South Africa.
WB. Yes.
CB. So you done Ground School already in the UK, what did you do in your Training in South Africa?
WB. Flew in Ansons all over the, all over South Africa and,
CB. So what were the exercises that you did ?
WB. Normal Navigation, cross country ones, but we did not have much in the way of Navigation Aids you know. You could, you could get beams from wireless beams but they weren’t particularly accurate and certainly astro was bloody awful. I mean you were very lucky[laugh] to be within twelve miles of where you really were.
CB. Why was that, was it because it took so long or it was difficult to see?
WB. No the sextant was a bottle sextant which moves about of course and you had to go for a whole, yet, have very accurate watch, for a minute do a, and then you averaged it out eh well cause you, you, used to have a song about eh “The bubble goes right and something goes left” I can’t remember.
CB. So in practical terms, in practical terms you were taking three fixes to get each.
WB. No, three position lines.
CB. Three position lines.
WB. To get a fix, but you very often found the position lines didn’t bear any relation to each other. Astro, to be honest I never used Astro except practicing on the ground. I never used it for Flying. No never. We once got em, in a Halifax, we once got struck by lightning and all the magnetical things all went hay wire so we had to come back on Gee [laugh] and eh and the Astro compass yeah. There was a lovely story when, Death, Air Commodore Death was flying round the North Pole. You have a problem with the North Pole because whatever way you go you go South, so they had to use Grid Navigation. But Anyway they landed at some place or other and er and Airman or somebody or maybe an NCO was taking, allocating rooms in the Mess and eh said “AC Death” and he said to the Air Commodore “AC1 or 2?” and the Air Commodore said “Air Commodore actually” and the chap said “that will be the day.”
CB. These anecdotes are very good. So just going back to the Flying Training. How long were you doing that, you were flying daylight but you sometimes flew at night didn’t you, in South Africa?
WB. No in South Africa we never flew at night, I can never remember flying at night but we flew all the time. We did a lot of flying in Anson’s and of course we did a lot of theoretical work. I remember we used to make fun of their accent, the South African accent especially when they were talking about the guns the rear guns. And talking about the Hood, they used to say Hoood. We used to say to him how goo get us the Hoood. [laugh]
CB. But they took it in good stead.
WB. Oh yes, we used to get on very well with the South Africans they were quite pleasant of course they were in the war.
CB. At what point were you awarded your flying brevet?
WB. Oh immediately we finished the course in South Africa. I remember I could you, eh, I had to buy them in the local shop, you had to get your first uniform made there but there were no Navigator half moons, half wings. They were the old “O”
CB. So you were the Observer.
WB. That’s why when we got married I was wearing the “O”
CB. Did you then convert to Navigator or did you have the Observer brevet?
WB. I changed to Navigator because I thought it sounded much better and more prestige than Observer. Totally after that I changed to Navigator brevet. Of course that doesn’t exist now, well it does in theory.
CB. Right, different. So as an Observer you didn’t just do Navigation, what else did you do? Because you done Air Bombing.
WB. No we had a Bomb Aimer who did that, I tell you what we used to introduce ourselves to the soldiers that we were carrying in the Gliders and we all had our names here. It was all very well oh when I went bye or a Pilot went by they always looked with natural horror, his name was Coffin [laugh] yeah.
CB. On the Albemarle, the Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle was a fairly rare aeroplane?
WB. I think five or six hundred were made and about two hundred of them were sent to Russia. Yes I wouldn’t say it was the best aeroplane to fly particularly from the Navigators point of view, you had no room, your table, your navigation table was folded over your lap. And eh when we went to the Halifax they had a proper laid out table and everything was marvellous, ah God.
CB. So flying the Albemarle what were you doing, were you dropping supplies to the Macys or the Resistance in General, how did the Operation go?
WB. We were particularly successful in fact my Pilot, as usual in the Air Force the Pilot was the one who usually got decorated because eventually the effect. The fable was you decorated the whole crew by giving the Pilot the DFC or whatever or DSO. Then we changed you know, when in the Air Force we changed every two years, so after about two years’ time you had no recognition saying you were a Navigator or whatever or Wireless Operator. The only person who had any recognition was the Pilot. Very few Navigators eh most of the Navigators who got mostly decorated were mainly Pathfinders ones. Eh not many, occasionally when something happened perhaps they got the odd DFC. Bye and large the Pilots always got the Gong which we thought was unfair. The other thing we thought was unfair was when the Canadians came over the Canadian Navigators had double wings eh so we thought we ought of have double wings. So would you believe it the Air Ministry decided to put it to the vote of Aircrew em as to whether they wanted the double wings. Of course there were far more Pilots than ever was Navigators. So of course they voted against it, so of course we never did get the double wings. But the Canadians had it and the Americans did too. The Americans had the double wings but eh, but eh.
CB. Can you talk us through an Operation when you are supplying the Macys?
WB. Well eh yeah, you were given a very short interval in which to drop, about five minutes, you weren’t allowed any more than five minutes because that would give away the position of the Macys. So you eh ah the Navigational had to be very accurate. If you didn’t make contact in the field in the time given you had to return to Base em with the material. As I said you had three lights, three torches that’s all they were. Three there and one at the side, with the one at the side like a nail formation and that one there would be flashing a code number which we had been given beforehand. And eh when the ere when the eh, the thing that annoyed me my Pilot got the same decoration as I got last week, this French decoration He got his during the war or just to the end of the war [unreadable] but the thing was he only did what he was told. I mean you gave him the Flight you gave him the Course the Height to fly at, the eh Airspeed. You kept changing the airspeed so that you arrived at the correct time because as I say you only had a short time to deliver the [unreadable]. When we eh when we spotted the lights, the Bomb Aimer would be in position, we would drop height down to about five hundred feet and drop the supplies and back. We normally flew at about six thousand, six or seven thousand but I tell you what as the Navigator I always gave the Pilot a thousand feet to much if you eh if the high ground was seven thousand feet I always gave him eight thousand to fly. I was all eh we lost a couple of aircraft in Norway because of this, well they didn’t put a safety margin on the flight.
CB. How difficulty was to find this Target, on your own that is, it is not with any other aircraft.
WB. Very difficult, we once got chased by a Fighter but he eh um he didn’t shoot. We did a Corkscrew, we were at our proper height then. The beauty, the reason that we dropped down to five hundred feet, the Fighters couldn’t fly underneath you [laugh] they would fly into the ground if they did. But eh but we never did, never had a Fighter contact at the time we were dropping, it was always clear and eh as I say eh you had a fifty, fifty chance of finding them, you only had, you were out of range of Gee. The Pathfinders of course had many other aids other than Gee. I mean they had bending beams and things and cross beams that were active when they were over the target. All the Navigators that I met who were well decorated were Pathfinder ones. Oh apart from the, there was the odd one from the eh, Dambusters.
CB. Oh Yeah. When you eh were looking for the sight of the Dropping Zone did they tend to be in wooded areas or were they in open fields or where were they.
WB. It would depend on what part of France it was, if it was the unoccupied part it would tend to be open ground. If it was the occupied part eh, we would look for some sort of cover if you could get it yeah em, but em.
CB. How many passes could you do?
WB. Oh we were only allowed one.
CB. Only one ?
WB. Yeah, because you didn’t have time to do any others. The Resistance Group would hear the aircraft coming and they would put on their torches, immediately we saw the torches we would drop and eh to supply them. We used to supply them with generally stuff to sabotage and so on to blow up railway lines and bridges. The idea was, they didn’t operate, or not very much until D Day and then they started mining all the things to delay any German reinforcements.
CB. And eh the Bomb Aimer was the person responsible for dropping, so there were static lines attached to the stores. How were they dropped, with a parachute?
WB. No they were more or less dropped as [unreadable] they were wrapped up, they weren’t on parachutes.
CB. They weren’t.
WB. No.
CB. Did you ever drop supplies by parachute?
WB. No but eh the night before D Day, 296 Squadron, I wasn’t on that 296 Squadron dropped parachutes, parachute Troops to seize a bridge, I forget the name of it but it is very famous, the Bridge.
CB. So on D Day what was your task?
WB. Our task was to drop the er Paratroops, the Gliders we dropped those behind the lines.
CB. Was this in daylight or at night?
WB. In daylight, the one that captured the bridge were dropped by parachute, that was night. It was the night before D Day but em. On D Day I remember the whole blinking sea seemed to be full of ships. I just couldn’t believe it and we flew over them. We were then stationed at Brize Norton which is now quite a famous airfield.
CB. When you were towing gliders, what height are you flying?
WB. Eh, I can’t remember exactly but I think about two to three thousand.
CB. What speed were you able to make?
WB. [laugh] Anson speed about a hundred em hundred and twenty perhaps, if you were lucky, sometimes slower than that.
CB. Because the speed is governed by what the Glider can do.
WB. Yes, well you just tow the glider along and the glider has control whither he has the release, not the Tug as we were called, we didn’t. We usually spoke to them before they were released to say good luck and what have you.
CB. So as well as the rope, it was a rope that tied you to the glider.
WB. I mean we dropped that, we were usually given a dropping zone for that.
CB. Back in Britain?
WB. No, by the Target, yes because we didn’t want to fly with a rope, [laugh] spare rope behind us. Yeah we, I think on D Day 296 Squadron we lost one aircraft.
CB. So how many other glider trips did you take for the Invasion?
WB. The Invasion, the Invasion only the one they did we, er there were other Squadrons, there was 297 doing the same sort of thing, they were stationed at Harwell. We had Halifax’s, 38 Group were equipped with the first Halifax’s, we didn’t have them but they were in the group they were used. Funnily enough eh they towed a different glider. We towed a Horsa which carried troops. They towed a thing called a, “what was it called?” Hamilcar, yes that’s it.
CB. That had guns in it?
WB. That carried a small tank and of course the small tank was no match for the German Armoured Division, no. That that was Montgomery’s idea apparently [unreadable] Eisenhower and it was a disaster. Only because they didn’t know, they would never have sent them had they knew there was a German Armoured Division there.
CB. Are we talking about Arnhem now or are we talking about Normandy landings, you were just taking troops?
WB. Normandy landings we just flew over the top we got em the. I think some parachutists were dropped, their purpose was to try to immobilise the guns. I think that is what the Americans unfortunately dropped their parachutists in the wrong place or too far away and they suffered terrible casualties, compared with the British and Canadians. But it is so old now seventy five years or whatever.
CB. Long time.
WB. It is a long time, in fact I’m surprised, I suppose it’s the role played that I remember so much. I wouldn’t have thought at ninety six to remember as much as I do remember, but I don’t remember all of it.
CB. So when you were towing the glider, were you the lead Navigator yourself?
WB. No each aircraft had its own Navigator. The Americans had a lead Navigator scheme but I think they gave that up after a while, because if you got the Leader shot down you were in trouble to a certain extent.
CB. You were the Squadron Navigation Officer weren’t you?
WB. Yes I was Squadron Navigation Officer then Station Navigation Officer then HQ Malaya Navigation.
CB. Over a period of years?
WB. Oh I loved Singapore was lovely, that was a posting that.
CB. But in that case you gave up towing gliders at the end of the war.
WB. Oh yes, gliders were never used again. They were very expensive the er em. The Germans invaded Crete with parachutists and they made the mistake of parachuting the ammunition separately [laugh] and eh the British Tommies had a Hell of a time for a while until the Germans were able to reinforce and eh eh, funny.
CB. OK we will stop there for a bit.
CB. So Bill what was the most memorable thing that you did, do you think?
WB. The most memorable thing was the Ground Crew of 296 decided to hold a raffle or call it what you like, that sort of thing. They collected money from all of the Ground Crew and decided they would award the money to the first aircraft to make touch down. We were first and eh our Ground Crew goes cheering to the roof you know because they would collect the money. Some Ground Crew serviced more aircraft, I don’t know what arrangements they had for that. We taxied back to the dispersal with cheers and whoops and what have you. We were then at Brize Norton.
When we went to. I didn’t mention, when we went to Arnhem we flew to Manston and, and in order to get closer to the Target because Albemarle’s hadn’t the range of the Halifax. So we flew down there, but the thing that I remember was that there were Americans at Manston and eh our first Meteors had appeared and they couldn’t understand how these aircraft were flying without propellers [laugh].
CB. Meteor Jets yes.
WB. Yes
CB. What was the level of loss on the Squadron, how many aircraft were lost?
WB. I don’t know off hand.
CB. Was it a regular occurrence?
WB. No not, the sort of Operation we were doing supplying the Resistance Group, it didn’t pay the German Air Force to go chasing after one er aircraft, so by in large we were never attacked. Although there is a, I’ve got a picture in the album. Incidentally, I don’t know if you want to look at the Album when I got this French Decoration, three weeks later we were there.
CB. We will look at that in just a moment thank you.
WB. Yes that was the only thing, it’s funny how you remember small things connected to big things. You get some small incidents that occur and a great big thing like D Day you remember the Ground Crew gathering on your return to Base.
CB. How was the relationship between the Aircrew and the Ground Crew.
WB. Oh very good, very, very good yeah we knew them all by name, they were always there with a smile.
CB. We are going to stop there because time has run out so thank you very much indeed.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with William Barfoot
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Barfoot was born in Newcastle upon Tyne. On joining the Air Force, he trained as a wireless operator but remustered as aircrew. He trained as a navigator in South Africa. He flew operations with 296 Squadron supplying the French and Norwegian Resistance, towing troop gliders to Normandy, Arnham and the Rhine.
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2015-12-08
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Hugh Donnelly
Format
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01:10:19 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABarfootWE151208
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Greece
Netherlands
Norway
South Africa
England--Essex
England--Oxfordshire
England--Kent
South Africa--Makhanda
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
296 Squadron
aircrew
Albemarle
Anson
Dominie
Gee
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Castle Bromwich
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Earls Colne
RAF Hullavington
RAF Manston
RAF Shawbury
RAF Yatesbury
Resistance
Stirling
Tiger Moth
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1071/11528/APerryJE160115.1.mp3
b6c636650aae4fb0f573af0c56f4d4b1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Perry, Jack
John E Perry
J E Perry
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Jack Perry (b. 1920, 617795, Royal Air Force). He served as ground crew with 83 Squadron at RAF Scampton but also flew three operations as an air gunner.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-01-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Perry, JE
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
NM: So this is, this is Nigel Moore. It’s the 15th of January 2016. I’m at the home of Mr John Perry in [deleted ] Welwyn Garden City. So, tell me a little bit about your childhood and growing up before you joined the air force.
JP: Very interesting. Yeah. Well, I was born in Wimbledon 1920 and never saw my father because he died before I was registered. My mother died when I was six years old and I went to live with one of her younger sisters in Poplar. All I remember about that was being dressed in a grey suit with a bag. Going to school at Queen’s Road, Wimbledon and passing the Royal Arsenal Co-op where they had all the carts garaged there. That apparently was where my father worked after he came out of the army. And I got, as I say one morning I went to say goodbye to my mother in bed. She was in bed. I just went back and saw my granny coming and I said, ‘Mummy won’t speak to me.’ I went on my way to school. And she’d died of consumption. Apparently my father had died with it before that. Put his down to a result of first war gas according to my cousin later on. She was a bit older than me. Now, I remember my mother’s funeral. We were, my brother and myself and my cousin Winnie. And my mother’s younger sister, Auntie Mabel had a pram. And we weren’t allowed to go to the burial or the funeral so we were on the kerb outside the house. As I say after that I just know I went to one Auntie, Jessie in Poplar. And my brother, who was three years older than me went to Auntie Ethel in Romford. And that’s Winnie’s mother. My cousin. I can’t remember much about it except that we lived in a bungalow on a newly erected square of bungalows. And my mother or my father were either caretakers there. That’s my auntie I should say. I remember the 1926 strike. All the marchers in their peaked caps and corduroy trousers tied at the knees marching. And then apparently my uncle he worked in the docks. East India Docks. Whatever he was. A caretaker or something or other. But anyway, I just remember doing one of two things with my auntie like giving me a bunch of wooden skewers to go and get some sausages from the butcher. And climbing up the iron railings in the tenement buildings that were there empty. The next thing I knew I was in a Church Home. And I remember the morning there I was standing in the room with all the rest of the children that were there and I know I wet myself and I had to go before the head man there. He was in his surplice and that. And I can’t remember much about it except that he had this board on the desk and he give me a hit with it. A Cribbage board it was as I know now. Now all I remember is that I used to be taken from there to school with a young school teacher. Used to take me on the bus every morning to school. Then after that I remember going to, in hospital for me adenoids and tonsillectomy. They were done and I got scarlet fever develop whilst in the hospital. And they took me across the bridge from the hospital to the workhouse and I was in the workhouse there for two weeks in bed, I remember with scarlet fever. And then a lovely old gentleman, I shall always remember him with his beard and that, came and took me away from there to a place at Fairlight, at Hampton Hill in Middlesex. All I can remember about that is that we used to sit around in the evening and he’d play this big phonograph. He’d got a big, with tubular discs. He used to play that in the evening. I remember then from there I was boarded out to a footballer in Hamptons. I don’t know where it was actually but, and all I know is that he and his wife they’d got two daughters and he used to take me with him to the football every, when he went training and playing. He used to sit me in the stands. I’m not sure now, I know they wore blue jerseys. Whether it was the original Wimbledon or whether it was Chelsea. But after a few times there I was taken back into care because, I don’t know the reason why but I was picked up with this social worker in a big browny red Talbot motor and taken to New Malden in Surrey. Children’s Home. There because I was born in Surrey so I was their responsibility. I remember that. When I apparently showed signs of bad temper or something or other they used to put me in the gas cupboard under the stairs and shut the door until I stamped it out and screamed at them. And then I remember I ran away from there, from this New Malden and I got as far as Teddington I think and I was picked up by the police and returned. I was about nine then, I think so [pause] Then I was boarded out again from there. Oh, when, I was labelled uncontrollable what they used to do, one of them, the masters of the house was as a punishment he used to take me down to the shed in the garden where they had a boxing ring rigged up. Put me in there with an older fella to knock me about a bit. To punish me it was. But as I say I loved it all because I loved fighting. And then I got boarded out again to other people. And I was going to New Malden Council School then. And it was somebody in New Malden. She’d already got two boy boarders. One of them was already working. And there again she used to put me in the cupboard under the stairs. And that was full of quart beer bottles. They were drinkers. Both of them. Her and her husband. I didn’t last long there. They took me back to this Children’s Home in New Malden. And then I remember I just started to go from council school to the newly built central, the first one, secondary modern school. West Malden Central School. I was put in to a 1b because I was only ten and the starting age was eleven. But this 1b was full of children that had qualified through exams. I was still only eleven. And when I passed the certificate for going to grammar school but at that time, going to grammar school everything you had had to be paid for so being a council boy nobody would do it so I, I didn’t go. I remember I picked up again then to go to, oh as I say when I first went to New Malden Children’s Homes and I was there, first day registered my, met my registrar there. When I was asked my name I said, ‘Jack.’ I was called Jackie. He said, ‘No such name. The name is John.’ So from then, that time on I became John all through until I was still in the air force. I was still as John. But I deviate. I was picked up at this Children’s Home in West Malden by a man and woman. They had, at that time a Vauxhall racing car. There was only fourteen of them built. And I was in the dickie seat at the back and I was taken in that car with them up to Shropshire in the West of England School of Handicrafts. I was eleven then. Because I was a little bit more intelligent or advanced then some of the other inmates there because most of them were cripples or parental rejects for fits and all that sort of thing. And they just started taking people from council homes too. And I was one of them there. Because I was a bit more intelligent I was asked or told to be companion to their only son, Tom Parker. And that’s how it stood. He was, had a governess. And I think I was just in there. I remember, as I grow older I did quite a lot of things. I know I was about fourteen I think, one of the masters who was a Territorial Army lieutenant he got me interested in the military. And I passed an exam to go to the Royal Ordnance Corps. Boy entrant. Gosport. And I was on my way there. Had to go to report to the King’s Shropshire Light Infantry Barracks. And I got to the barracks and he wasn’t there with me, this guy. He’d gone or something. But at the [pause] registrar or whatever they call them in there and they said, ‘We want your parent or your guardian to sign this,’ and I’d got nobody. So, they called up Petton Hall and they came and fetched me back again. And I carried on and I remember doing a lot of carpentry work and also helping rebuild a lorry with a, renewing the engine and that. And then, but they were pumping their own electricity there with a big Crossley gas engine. And I got I had to do that in the morning. It was fed by an anthracite boiler with a drip feed to supply the gas. I did that and then they had a, they started building the stables into another home for people and I got put on to help the electrician there. The electrician, plumber and brick layer from outside and each one had an apprentice if you can call them that. And I had to apprentice an electrician then. That’s where I learned my trade. There until I was eighteen. Another one of the masters got me thinking about going and I remember I went and I caught a train and went to Birmingham. To Snow Hill Station. Come out and there was the RAF recruiting office. I went in there and did the entrance exam. And then I joined the air force at the age of eighteen. I went down to West Drayton. At West Drayton I was kitted out and had my hair cut and the king’s shilling and then I went to Uxbridge for the initial training. Three months. That was drills and things like that. I remember I was good at football. We were playing a match between the squadrons. Flights or what there. And then a Fulham scout was there watching me and I think about half time he left because I finished up on the ground most of the time, being small. Then one of the PTI instructors was a RAF boxing guy and he used to take me down to the boxing ring and have, showed us about because I loved it. The boxing. Until one time I was boxing against a Halton apprentice. Seventeen year old apprentice. And he gave me two pokes and I was on the floor. I thought that’s me finished. I went from there to Henlow camp for electrical training and, and that I was there about eight to ten months. I remember seeing on the flying field there the monoplane and I thought that’s new. And it was a Hurricane that was under test. And that’s the first of the Hurricanes then before they started going. Anyway, I, come the July 1939 all my entry were posted. We hadn’t finished the course or anything but to various sections then. As I say, in this entry that apart from people and an AMIE chappy and another one that’s national, national certificate. Another one who had been an electrician in the theatres. So we were all posted to different places. I went up to Scampton. And I remember going there and joining 83 bomber squadron. That [pause] and initially I was put into a bell tent because accommodation wasn’t ready for months. Apparently they were just starting to receive the Hampden aircraft squadron. They already had one electrician there with the squadron and he’d probably been some time with them. They couldn’t find work for me so I was sent over to work in the battery charging room with a civilian operator there they had. And then I remember the day that war broke out then. September the 4th. They had this tannoy message over there. I was just walking in the, between meals and things and they said, ‘The next time you hear this you have to all go down in the shelters.’ I don’t know what happened after that. I know it was a sunny day. And I just remember that they had another electrician posted to them and he was sent to the battery room and I was taken out of the battery room to the maintenance hangar. And I was there for a bit. We had, I made friends with another Southern Irish chappy that had joined up for the war and then he was my friend then. And I remember he’d done a minor service on a, on a Hampden aircraft and he’d gone on leave and he hadn’t signed up for it. So I, I was told have a look and see or sign for it by the NCO in charge. I checked it over and signed it up. They took it out for engine runs and when they went to start it, it caught fire. And then I know one of them came from Farnborough to inspect it and check what may have happened. And the guy that came was an electrician, Jimmy Phillips that had been on the course with me at Henlow. As I say, he’d been a National Certificate holder so he got on all right. And what they found was that when they pressed the button to start the engine up with the ground plugged in that the relay, something like that, had arced between the things and they’d sparked and caught fire. Anyway, of course they had to, Handley Page sort all that out and put rubber sleeves on so that it couldn’t happen again. And I remember that both Paddy and I were sent out. That more aircraft had come and we were designated to flights. About ten or twelve aircraft in each flight. I was in B flight and then service them. Daily servicing, DIs and sign up for the 700s so that they could fly. I remember that on one occasion I, the, the bombsight selector was showing that a fault, amber light, a fault on something. An earth on the system. And I remember it took me about forty eight hours to trace that right back to where it was, and it was a tail wheel microswitch had frozen solid and causing the short. So Handley Page had to send a work crew out to sort that out and they had a gel mixture in all microswitches exposed to the weather. And then I remember being on duty crew which we used to do. And in the first instance the first duty crew I think I had to go out with the flashing beacon to some distant part of Lincoln. And that was an all night job. Brought it back in the day time. Another time, duty crew, we had just had all the runway lit up with glim lamps that were battery operated lamps for the flare path and goose necks with paraffin and the chance lights, one at each end of the flare path. And we’d just got them all lit up for the aircraft returning from a bombing raid when a Junkers 88 joined the circuit and strafed the runway. It was a pretty sight with green and yellow and tracer bullets. A couple of our returning aircraft gave chase. I don’t know what happened to them or him. And then, oh and so one night when we were, Paddy and I were out and we came, we were on the way back to camp and we came back the top of the airfield way with a mini cab. I can’t remember why. But we were just off the aircraft, airfield and this aeroplane, one of ours, crash landed. Out of, out of the aerodrome precincts in the field. I remember Paddy and I stopped the car and ran over to help them out. And we were the first people there. The ambulance came and everybody was alright. I think that there was a burning thing. Then the ambulance brought us back to camp and took us right back to the Red Cross. Their place because they’d take the passengers to be checked over. I don’t remember much else there [unclear]
NM: You, you mentioned you had three, three flights as a —
JP: Oh yeah. I’ll come to that.
NM: As an unofficial gunner. How, how did that —
JP: I’m coming to that. That was at Scampton with the squadron. Just after the war broke out a DRO was posted up for tradesmen to volunteer for air gunners. To sit in. And three of us from the squadron or flight, or anyway in the billet, volunteered and as I say I was very pleased to. We had a week’s training with the armoury sergeant who was the first air force person I’d seen in khaki. He was a sergeant obviously and he showed us how to strip the guns down, rebuild them, oil them. The Vickers K gun. And then took us out for target practice. And I remember it was stupid it was nothing to do with guns, K-guns or anything like that was a Hispano Suiza, a big gun. And firing at a Messerschmitt 109 target board. And then when we’d done that we were, I personally was given a crew place. And we were designated to go to Kiel and it was a paper, just paper delivery. We were told not to fire the guns unless fired upon or the pilot told us to. Otherwise we were just there to make weight. We did one trip there and another trip with the same purpose to Wilhelmshaven. And then a third trip was a camera study of the pens. The submarine pens at Wilhelmshaven. We were, we were told that we’d got to be registered and, but we were going to have a medical test before we went to do the air to air firing at North Coates. And then when I was having the medical, I remember it was in the barrack room then, the guy just said no and, ‘You’ve failed your medical for eyesight.’ Never did tell me what it was. It was just an eyesight test. So I never qualified. I know one of the other people, he did. I was very proud of the squadron because the 83 Squadron was commanded by Wing Commander Snaith of the Schneider Trophy. Renowned I think. And I used to follow that when I was a kid. And the aircraft. That was, that was alright until I got posted away and found myself up at Turnhouse in Scotland and there I was put on the, into an office. K4 area. I was, I had to be interviewed by the group captain of the Turnhouse. And then we, he had us go to him and swear to secrecy. It was the Duke of Hamilton was the group captain I remember. Anyway, I found myself out in the civilian lodgings on the decoy sites just being built up in Edinburgh area. I was there on this decoy site. The first one at east of Kinleith, which was at the foot of the Braids Hill. The decoy site was on Braids Hills just outside Edinburgh. And all I’d do there was check the circuitry of the fires and the diesel machines and everything there. And then I had to train ACHs and I was posted to a site at Millerhill and made area electrician. So I had a dispatch driver with a sidecar to go around the other sites checking the batteries and the, checking out the circuitry. The, the flight lieutenant in charge of the unit K4, all said, everything we had a code word — Starfish. If you were ever approached by anybody, Secret Service police or anything like that you just had to say, ‘Starfish,’ and you’d go on your way. It was a secret code. Anyway, he said that, ‘You’re doing the area electrician. I’m going to get you promoted.’ I said, ‘Well, I’m a Group 2 tradesman. I’m as far as I can go.’ And he, he got in touch with Colonel Butcher, MOD and he applied to the Air Ministry to get me in. The Air Ministry apparently turned back and said, ‘Unfit for NCO material.’ And I could only ever assume that that was because I’d passed my eye test to be aircrew. Because they’d already made then aircrew all had to be NCOs when I was there. In my flights I was just given a sergeant’s stripes during the flight as protection in case you were taken prisoner. And that applied to all the wireless operators. They were only Group 2 tradesmen as well. And then, as I say, but I was so proud of 83 Squadron. I was very disappointed when I left them because already they’d had John Hannah a VC. And to my knowledge they had done the first two bombing raids to Italy which was a two way and they lost a lot of aircraft on that. And then part of the hundred bomber attack on Berlin, I think it was. And of course Handley Page were adapting these aircraft for all sorts of things. 83 Squadron and 49 which was the other squadron at Scampton they had Barry Learoyd as a VC for his antics on a raid on the dams which was unsuccessful but he stayed there and watched everybody drop off their bombs apparently. And he was the leader. But then they had adapted for mine laying and everything what they did. Anyway, I digress again there. When I, when I had this promotion turned down the, my senior officer there said, ‘Well, we’ll send you for Group 1 training,’ which had just started up in electrics. Group 1. And I was sent back to Turnhouse waiting for permission there and he said, ‘We’ll get you there and ask to have you back again.’ Anyway, something happened at Turnhouse. I was in the cubbyhole. I was working on a microswitch again there. That was the first place I saw WAAFs working on Spitfires. Laying on the tail planes while they revved them up. Wonderful. Anyway, a posting came for somebody else there and they were posted and they they didn’t take the posting because they were compassionate posting to Turnhouse for reasons of family or something like that. So I was put on there and I was promised that the posting would follow me through. But that’s how I got on to the glider units. First and foremost I had to go to a place called Lasham to start up a Heavy Glider Maintenance Unit. And I remember I had to pick up some of my belongings from the civilian billet and I missed the 10 o’clock train out of Edinburgh to London in the morning. I had to wait until 10 o’clock at night to get another one and of course consequently I’d missed all my connections. I got down to Hook and I had to go from there to RAF Odiham. I used public transport to get there and the transport arranged to pick me up there had gone back. And I was three days at Odiham. They said, in the cook’s hut, of course it could be anytime and they were people that were early risers and that, the cooks. So, anyway I did get to Lasham and I was there, I think two weeks. I know Christmas time was on there. The aerodrome wasn’t ready. Nowhere near for reception. And all we had were Nissen huts. I remember me and another of my colleagues we took up an option of going to Polk’s Photographic Works Christmas party. And I remember coming out of that to get my transport back from that and being set upon by two Royal Marines. And then a Royal Canadian military policeman come and banged them up and carted me off to their billets. And I was there overnight. And they took me back to Tarrant Rushton in the morning and, not Tarrant Rushton. Lasham. And they immediately sent me to the Red Cross place to be checked over for any broken bones or severe bruising. That’s how I spent my Christmas. Then we were taken by bus to Hurn Airport where we started forming this Heavy Glider Maintenance Unit. We didn’t have much to do with the gliders at the time. All we were doing were wiring up the tow ropes for the intercom with don 8 wires. And then we were, I think it was the [pause] mostly to do with the Army Airborne Div. Training their pilots and that. Anyway, we, we were all bundled off up to West Kirby in Liverpool and kitted out with khaki wear and given a sten gun and ammunition. Put on a boat. And that was in Liverpool and we went from Liverpool up to the Clyde to join a convoy and we were, we were on the Duchess of York, the liner. And I remember my accommodation there was on a table. They did have hammocks but I couldn’t get in them. And we went there. This convoy sailed to North Africa. I remember going there. A two man submarine came up there. It was a Russian two man submarine waving their arms to us. Anyway, we were docked at Algiers. And you’ve never seen a most unruly rabble. Everybody just straggling one after the other. We finished up with all our gear and arms and ammunition at a transit camp there and just asked who you were and they sent you to a portion of the transit camp. And we were there overnight and then we were put on a train. Three day journey to go over to Morocco. Or the borders of Morocco. To a French Foreign Legion base. And we were there. And then we were, five of us were taken in the group captain’s Wellington bomber, it was an unarmed Wellington bomber. And flown from there over to Tunisia. I remember you could see the, going over the Atlas Mountains and the shepherds and that. On top of the hills and that. That low. Anyway, we got to this Kairouan in there. That’s where we formed the unit prior to the invasion of Sicily I think. But that, that was, I don’t know how the gliders got there or anything. Or the Halifaxes that towed them. They must have, they were all unarmed and they must have flown out but anyway there was quite a number of them and a few Wacos. And the Americans had Wacos and Dakotas. And then, then they did the invasion and talk as if some of the Americans even dropped their gliders at Malta. Anyway, and then there was a question there of retrieving a Halifax that was down. We went over with another Halifax. I wasn’t even with the Halifax squadron. I was a glider person. But I think I was senior electrician or something like that. Anyway, we got there. The mafia were guarding it and said give us forty eight hours and then we’d have to burn it. Anyway, but they got it back. Then of course we came back again on the Samaria back after there. And we were finished up at Netheravon in Wiltshire. And from there we went on disembarkation leave. I’d still got my sten gun and bullets. I thought, well I don’t want to take these home so I dumped them outside the armoury door. Everybody else had got rid of theirs somehow or other. Anyway, when we came back to Netheravon we were flown in the gliders there to Tarrant Rushton. That’s [pause] I didn’t like that trip at all. It was horrible. I was boiling hot and sick. I was glad to get out of it. I thought of the poor devils that had to go and fight in this afterwards. Anyway, there we did a lot at Tarrant Rushton training the airborne pilots and we took delivery of the heavier glider, Hamilcars and they took tanks and tank crews. Minor small tanks. And then, and then the night before the invasion of, on D-Day we were all lined up with these gliders and the Hamilcars again. And then they were, didn’t know what they were going to do but I remember seeing the Ox and Bucks Regiment marching on to the parade grounds. And then they all queued up ready and the Halifaxes lined up to take off. And then at [pause] I remember sitting on a Horsa glider. I was doing the intercom connection lot into the glider. Had a bit of trouble with it and I went over to talk to the pilot and asked him to check it out. I looked around and a load of kids with a rifle stuck between their legs. Only seventeen and eighteen. It made me feel absolutely sick. They must be sending these somewhere. Only kids. Anyway, about 11 o’clock at night there was this armada of lit up aircraft flying over and our lot just had to join them. They were apparently going to establish a bridgehead subject to the seaborne landings. Very nice. And then of course later on we had the airborne there. They did Arnhem. That was after but I wasn’t involved in the crossing of the Rhine at all. I was in hospital then. Anyway, that’s where I finished my time. At Tarrant Rushton. All I got as a thank you was thirty six pound I think for pay. Reserve payment and thirty six pound gratuity. And I just recently had a Legion of Honour from the French nation saying thank you for deliverance. Lovely. I’ve got a written notice. Somebody said thank you. Made me so proud. That’s about it. Except that I got married and that and had a family. And then of course —
NM: That’s quite some story. That’s quite some story. So, you stayed at Tarrant Rushton after D-Day.
JP: Yeah. Yeah.
NM: Right through to —
JP: Right through to —
NM: The end of the war.
JP: VE. VE yeah.
NM: And then you were demobbed.
JP: I were demobbed in March 1946. We’ve got it all down here somewhere [unclear] [pause] my service record is a bit haphazard. And that’s 83 Squadron. 1941.
NM: Ok. I’ll look at those in a minute can I?
JP: Yeah.
NM: So, so after the war what happened? Tell me after the war.
JP: Well —
NM: After your demob.
JP: I was very lucky. I, I got [pause] we were in, my wife and I and the eldest son were in digs in Wimborne. I looked for work. I got a job with Asian company in Bournemouth. Electrician. But on an air force recommendation that they wouldn’t take me on as a skilled man. They took me on as a man mate. I got four pound ten a week I think. That was six months. But I was put with a sixty year old man and I became his hands and that. I was with them, I can’t remember, a few years but then I got a local job at [pause] one of the foreman that I was working with. Asian company on a building in Bournemouth. We did renovation of all the hotels that the Canadians and Americans had, ravaged I think it’s called [laughs] The word. And this time we were doing another job repairing a restaurant. And this guy started up a business with a friend in Wimborne. He asked me to go there with him. That’s where I worked for a bit doing council house erections and odd jobs around. I became a washing machine, Bendix engineer. Did all sorts of things. And then I went to an engineering firm. This was after we’d got our house. Council house in Wimborne. My neighbour, an engineering firm wanted an electrician and he said, ‘Come and do it with us.’ So I did. I went there and used to do the servicing of the machines. And then we had a little section where they started up doing cards. Soldering and that. Anyway, they went bust, and I started looking for jobs. I went to Tarrant Rushton where flight refuelling were starting up. Well they were still in operation. And I couldn’t get a job there. [unclear] around the bend. I finished up at de Havillands in Christchurch. I went there and they took me on straight away. And also I met friends of a, worked for Mace and Co were there in an experimental department. As I say we were the experimental. We were doing the 110 Sea Vixen eventually. And they were also doing the production of Venoms. Sea Venoms and that. So, now I did that. As I say I went to Hurn Airport and was working night shift on servicing aircraft. Flight testing. As I say I went from there on loan up to Hatfield when the Sea Vixen’s were transferred from Christchurch up to Hatfield. I was doing experimental there. I’ve got here [pause] We were doing the Nimrod. Servicing the Comet into a Nimrod. That was all on the secret as well. And then of course I went over to the flight test for the [pause] they were still doing the Comet 4s in the flight test there. [pause] I don’t know, I’ve forgotten the name of it now [pause] Before the 146 anyway.
NM: Trident.
JP: Trident. Yeah. I went to China on delivery. Aircraft to China. Couple of times which was very good. And we had a Christmas at the Chinese expense up in Peking. That was quite an experience. We went to see Mao Tse Tung laying in state. And believe it or not we marched right up to the front of the queue. Then of course I was, I transferred under pressure to go into the inspection department. And then I did very well there. As I say I finished up doing the final inspection for flight electrical. I don’t think, there’s nothing else to say.
NM: And that took you to retirement did it?
JP: Well, I took my pass, my retirement pay about a month I think. But I was stuck here at home mowing the lawns and that.
[recording paused]
JP: Alright?
NM: Yeah.
JP: Down south. I went and got a job down at Swallowfield Service Station serving the public with fuel and that. Did that for five years. And then they, actually they closed down because the tanks got, had to be filled up with concrete because they were serving up dirty fuel. But I was seventy then so I had to settle down in retirement. That’s my life.
NM: So when you look back at your time, your service during the Second World War what, what are your reflections?
JP: Well, the biggest and most is the neglect of what 83 Squadron and subsequently 49 and the other people did before the public noted. I mean of the Dambusters they seemed to have taken over and the others are forgotten. They hurt me. I know that Guy Gibson, the big man. He was a pilot officer at Scampton in 83 Squadron in the beginning of the war. I remember him coming back visiting when he was the big Pathfinder. I don’t know why he came back to visit. Whether he came back to visit Barry Learoyd who was then ADC of 83 Squadron, he transferred from 49 or he was just sussing out the place because he was taking it over. I wasn’t there long enough to find out. I did know that while I was there Waddington started taking delivery of the Manchester. And the thing was it was an utter failure. The wheels were too big or something. That was the forerunner of the Lancaster.
NM: So did you volunteer for going to Edinburgh and then the gliders or or were you posted?
JP: No. I was posted there. No. Actually, when I got posted to Edinburgh I was living with my wife in Lincoln. And she went home to give birth to my eldest son and I, I wasn’t able to go. I only had a forty eight hour pass to get married. And when she was giving birth to my son I wasn’t allowed any leave at all. Then I was posted up there. As I say, to the glider squadron. It was because the person that had been delegated to do the transfer, that was a compassionate posting to Turnhouse and as I was there waiting for a posting I was the one that got put on the [pause] I didn’t mind. Because they did say that the, going to Group 1 training, ‘And when you finished we’ll have you back again.’ There was a promise. Once I got to the glider unit I was no longer an electrician. I was a Terry of all means. I used to do the picketing. All we did with gliders was hump batteries backwards and forwards to the charging unit. And then we’d do all the picketing down at the aircraft. And latterly with the Hamilcar gliders I used to drive the track, tractor to tow the Hamilcars off, off the grass into the hardstand. That’s what my job was really. Just preparing them for the runway.
NM: Tell me a little bit more about the three unregistered operations you did to Kiel and Wilhelmshaven.
JP: Oh that.
NM: How did you feel about those raids?
JP: Well, I thought I was at last going to fly. And all the, at the time the, as I say the radio operators were the only air gunners that were there. And the, when the Hampdens, they’d got a seat for air gunners at the back they hadn’t got any trained air gunners. And they asked for volunteers and we had the course there but each time at the briefing we were told not to fire unless fired upon or attacked. Or unless the pilot told you to for any reason or other. We were just make weight. I know that the bomb aimer was the one that dropped the packages of leaflets. And also, I think on the last trip for the photography, I think he did the photographing from his position in the nose. But the only thing about it was that I remember we got caught in a searchlight. I thought when they said my eyesight was defective that it might be because the searchlight had affected it. But subsequently, years later I found out I’d got a lazy eye. So I’ve still got that.
NM: So, apart from the searchlights did the three trips pass without incident or were there —?
JP: No. No incident at all. Just a cold flight because we only had the helmet and the jacket. They would do, they of course used to start off in daylight to do their raids.
NM: So, these were daylight raids were they?
JP: Yeah.
NM: So what did you feel looking down across occupied France and Germany itself?
JP: Well, France wasn’t occupied then of course. I mean we’d only just declared war on them. Apparently the French Ministry had asked the British Ministry not to bomb Germany for fear of reprisals. So I believe. They were, all initially we were doing were bombing marshalling yards and shipping. I think that the biggest was, although I wasn’t involved with it at the time was Dresden. When that chief air vice marshall decided to throw caution to the wind and kill civilians as well. There’s others, that was a thousand bomber raid. But I was very sad to leave 83 Squadron. I was very proud to be a member of it. I do think that they, like the Dambusters were the super squadron.
NM: Have you kept in touch with 83 Squadron at all?
JP: No.
NM: Joining reunions or associations at all?
JP: No. No. Not at all. No. I [pause] my, when I was, I wasn’t even offered an extension because I only signed on for six years and no reserve in the first place. But then I did nearly eight years. As I say when I saw all those kids although they might have been trained I was just disgusted with the air force.
NM: Why?
JP: I just felt that we’d be sending them to die. Took me a long time to get over that. And then of course we heard the next day about the, the seaborne invasion.
NM: So your feelings about D-Day were mixed were they?
JP: Yeah. Very. I was proud to be part of the armada on that. Whatever it was for. We didn’t know. But as I say subsequently it come out it was to establish a bridgehead.
NM: So, how have you recently got involved with the Bomber Command Centre then? How did you hear about that again?
JP: I think my son Paul picked up on it on the computer.
NM: So tell me about your Legion d’Honneur from France. How did that come about?
JP: Oh my daughter. She lives in Sandy in Bedfordshire. She said the, the mayor, the mayor in the local paper put a notice. The French authorities, War Office wanted to contact all those that had taken part in D-Day. Apart from the official landers those that had helped in the behind to notify them because they were offering to reward them. And I, she told me, I wrote to the mayor there they put my name forward to the War Office and they sent it over to France and I thought they’d forgotten all about it because I wasn’t actually part of D-Day. Pre D-Day we were. There’s a lovely letter there. And believe it or not there was eight hundred of us applied. They said they, they would do the awards if we wanted it. That they would arrange it but they’d got so many to do that they couldn’t possibly do. They were very good.
NM: So how do you feel Bomber Command has been treated since the war?
JP: Well, I don’t know much about it really. Obviously they’re doing their stuff all over the place with the Vulcan and things like that and the involvement in the Falklands War.
NM: Do you think the veterans of World War Two have been fully recognised?
JP: Well, now they’re beginning to be. But not before. I mean, I myself, but I feel apart from me it’s a memory, they’re forgotten. [unclear] All those aircrew lost. No recognition. It’s only that somebody wanted to revive D-Day. Not D-Day but Dambusters. Brought them to light. Then after that then people started thinking about Bomber Command as a whole. Because there weren’t only Hampdens. There were Wellingtons, Whitleys. They were the heavy bomber of the day and of course when the initial landings in in France they were still, fighter planes were all mono, all biplanes. The only monoplane they had was the Fairey. Fairey Battle. Light bomber. All they had over in Dunkirk and that. Then of course the Hurricane was a major fighter plane in the Battle of Britain. And then Spitfires of course were the master aeroplane.
NM: Ok. Shall we, shall we leave it there? Or —
JP: Well, I, yeah. As I say the decoy. Always assumed that the Germans were never going to bomb Edinburgh anyway because Hitler decided that was where he was going to be his seat. But some of them down south. They really got wiped out. The decoy sites. It’s all hearsay.
NM: So, so during the interview you said your real name was Jack. Which of the two names do you prefer? Jack or John.
JP: Jack. That’s how I’m known now mostly. Except in official circles. As I say, my wife, how she did it she found my relatives. My brother and my Auntie Ethel and Uncle Edgar who I remembered when I was a boy with mother. I always used to go to the greenhouse with him. And still, when I saw him he’d still got at Aunt Ethel’s a greenhouse with tomatoes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack (John) Perry
Creator
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Nigel Moore
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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APerryJE160115
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:26:55 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Dorset
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Description
An account of the resource
Jack (John) Perry was orphaned at the age of six. He lived with family, a Children’s Home and various foster homes. Named Jack by his parents he was forced to be known as John when in children's homes, a name he continued to use during his RAF service. He has since reverted to Jack. He volunteered for the RAF as soon as he was old enough just before the outbreak of war. He trained as an electrician and was posted to RAF Scampton. He flew three operations as a stand in air gunner but failed the medical to become air crew. He was present when a Ju 88 had intruded with the returning squadron and strafed the airfield. He was posted to RAF Turnhouse and then Tarrant Rushton with the glider squadron. After the war he went to work for de Havillands in their experimental section.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1941
49 Squadron
83 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
decoy site
ground personnel
Halifax
Hamilcar
Hampden
Horsa
Ju 88
Manchester
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
propaganda
RAF Scampton
RAF Tarrant Rushton
RAF Waddington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1081/11539/APragnellJ160526.2.mp3
b1d5d9b341a280f4d84f05cf037014fc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pragnell, Jack
J Pragnell
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Jack Pragnell (b. 1921, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as an observer with 51 and 102 Squadron. His twin brother was killed in action 16 December 1943 flying with 432 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Pragnell, J
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: So this is David Kavanagh on the 26th of May 2016.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Interviewing Jack Pragnell at his home. Ok. So if I just put that there. So if you just talk normally. If I keep looking over it like this I’m just checking that it’s still working.
JP: Yeah. Ok.
DK: So that’s out there. What, what I wanted to do was really just talk through your experiences before the war maybe.
JP: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: What you were doing then. Why and how you joined the air force and what you did in the air force.
JP: Yeah.
DK: And then later on afterwards. So, to start with perhaps if you could just say what you were doing before the war.
JP: Well, before the war my twin brother and myself we were together all the time by the way. I’d got an identical twin.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
JP: So we worked at, at Manfield Shoe Factory. In the office. Until, well we had, we were quite poor. We had to leave school at fourteen although we were at grammar school. We caught up on night school and everything so we did all that. And then come the sort of seventeen or so when I was a bit of fed up and wanting to move couldn’t do it because I was coming on to eighteen. And nobody had got a job there.
DK: No. No.
JP: And jobs were scarce for people. So we, we did a lot. Played a lot of sport. Enjoyed life thoroughly. We were both pretty good at sport and did very well at school and we were in the Boy’s Brigade and went to camp with them. And it was a lovely time. And then come the time when conscription was being, when none of us — all I knew of conscription was the First World War.
DK: Yeah.
JP: The filth and the degradation and the death in the, in the trenches. And we sort of wanted the glory boys you know. So we said, ‘Let’s go,’ and four of us got together one afternoon. Packed up our work and went off ostensibly to join the Fleet Air Arm because we liked the uniform.
DK: Right.
JP: When we got to the depot at Dover Hall it was the RAF recruiting place. The Fleet Air Arm was at the Naval place. In a different place. So anyway, we were talked into joining the air force. We had a few tests and we were accepted on the pilot navigator thing. Three of us. One was ill and went away. He came twelve months later and was a W/op AG but he was one out. So the three of us then waited as you did. Signed on. Waited. And we went to the place where they — Cardington.
DK: Cardington.
JP: To be signed up. Funny thing there. We go through. People didn’t know the difference. Absolutely identical. So he goes, my brother goes through and I was taken ill. So I was parked in to sick quarters for a week. When I came out he’d already gone through and been accepted on the pilot navigator thing. So I follow through and did the tests and one of the doctors said, ‘Well, we saw you last week.’ I said, ‘That was my brother.’ ‘Your brother?’ I said, ‘My twin brother.’ He said, ‘What did we do?’ ‘Oh you passed him.’ ‘Alright, you’re through.’ [laughs] So then we waited. This waiting time of several months, you know as everybody had to wait. And we were called up to Babington in London there to be — no. It was in the south. To be kitted and equipped. Near Bournemouth. Equipped and marched and inoculated and equipped and marched and inoculated. Incessantly. And then we went to Stratford on Avon at ITW. My brother and myself shared the Venus Adonis Room in the Shakespeare Hotel. Absolutely stripped clean. You know what I mean. I’ve been since and had a look. It’s a different kettle of fish. So then from there, after a few weeks of this, ‘You’re going.’ Didn’t know where. We were equipped with tropical equipment and, a kit bag full of that. And one night we were, well we were then taken to West Kirby near Manchester there. We were there for, I should think maybe a week or so and suddenly one night we were taken out at night and marched into the Glasgow station and climbed on a train outside the station and straightaway to a boat. The Moortown. The tramp steamer converted. And the filthiest, dirtiest old shabby ship you never saw in your life. It was an army boat and of course we were cadets there with a white flash in our hats oh and they took the mickey out of us left, right and centre. And we had the, under the bottom. Five weeks on that boat. Trudging. We didn’t know where we were going. We set out to the middle of the Atlantic we thought. Then suddenly we turned to port. Half of them sheared off. And with that I understand they finished up in America or Canada. We then went, they said, ‘Oh you’re going to Rhodesia.’ Well, we’d heard of Rhodesia but it was a long way away. Well, we went through. We couldn’t get off the boat. We had salt showers. It was purgatory. So, and the food wasn’t great you know, out of a big cauldron. But we got there. We finished up in, we went around the Cape. We thought where the hell are we going now? Sailed around. Finished up in Durban.
DK: Right.
JP: Lovely place Durban. It was lit. The sea was dark there. All the lights and what not. But there on the sea front was a dance hall and fairy lights. It was like heaven. And we were there a couple of weeks or so and the people were marvellous to us. They were queuing at the gates to take us out. And my brother and myself being identical twins we were snapped up, you know.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And they took us all over the place. And we then got on the train. It took three days. One of these slow moving things with the old wagon at the back. We could get off and walk with it. Finished up in Bulawayo. It’s in Southern Rhodesia. Well after a few weeks there at the ITW again we were marched, we were inoculated. But we had a lovely time. People took us out. They queued at the gates to take people out. But then, being the two of us we got special treatment you know. So we had a lovely time. It was hard work. It was hard work but we still relaxed well and played well.
DK: So what sort of work were you doing in Bulawayo then?
JP: Well, that was a holding camp.
DK: Right.
JP: A sort of ITW.
DK: Right.
JP: It was, actually it was the old cattle market and we slept in the, where the cattle slept. With a blind down the front and —
DK: Yeah.
JP: Wooden sort of flooring. It was a bit primitive. And so were the quarters. But we loved it anyway.
DK: So the training you were doing there. Was that for, as a navigator or pilot?
JP: We were then on the pilots navigator.
DK: Pilot navigator.
JP: It was the top course. Yeah.
DK: Right.
JP: And we were doing navigation. We were doing star recognition. We were doing pilot recognition. We were doing aircraft. The whole gamut of night after night day after day.
DK: And did it include training as, flying?
JP: Oh that was all training. It was nothing but training with a bit of time off now and again. It was very hard graft. We loved it. We played a bit of football and a bit of, quite a bit of cricket in the spare time. Then we were picked out. ‘Right. You’re going off to pilot training.’ Went to Gwelo which was in the back woods of East London there. Of south, what’s the name? Southern Rhodesia. Well, I promptly had the bane of my life in the air force. Every so often I got tonsillitis. And it got every course I went on I had to have a few of days in dock with this tonsillitis. And I went in dock in the middle of the pilot training.
DK: Right.
JP: It was on Tiger Moths. I’d soloed but I was a bit ham-fisted. We’d only had a bike up until then. That hadn’t even got a three speed. So we trained and then they came along. The CFI came. I was behind because I’d had this week off and you could not get behind. It was push push push. This CFI, the Chief Flying Instructor came and he looked me up and down and said, ‘Well, come on.’ So I took him up. Landed him. Well, of course the tension of him being there and I was a very raw pilot. But he, he would have gone through the ceiling when we landed, you know. In a Tiger Moth on a grass field it was I thought. So I landed him. He looked me up. He said, ‘Well, what’s your navigation like?’ I said, ‘Well, quite good.’ He said, ‘I think you’ll make a better navigator than a pilot. You’ll be alright on these.’ The next step were Harvards of course. The killers.
DK: Yeah.
JP: He said, ‘You’ll kill yourself I think.’ And they were. A lot of people were. These decrepit Harvards. So, my brother got himself taken off and we were allowed to go together. We sat there and waited, oh two or three weeks until a course came and we were taken down, all the way down to East London. On the Cape.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And there we did the full observer course. Navigator, bomb aimer, air gunner. Again played a lot of sport. Again, taken around a bit. Again went out together. It was a lovely life because we did everything. See whereas if I had gone on my own I’d have had to look for a comrades.
DK: Yeah.
JP: I’d have had to look for a mate. There was two of us. We’d always got a mate.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And we were so much alike. We, well we were a part of each other. Absolutely. Dressed the same. Shared our money. Shared our clothes. Shared our uniforms. And got on ever so well together. Bane of the life of the instructors who didn’t know who they were talking to [laughs]
DK: Yeah.
JP: But anyway, we did well. We passed out from there. And then we had about three weeks at Cape Town waiting to come back. And then we came back alone. Not, we went out in convoy for the five weeks. Very slowly. Very tedious. The Prince of Wales and the other one going up and down. Of course they sailed on to the Far East and that was when they were sunk.
DK: Right.
JP: We were the last lot to see them when they went off.
DK: Yeah.
JP: But we came back alone on the Otranto. Which was a, was a merchantmen. In fact on the way back picked a boat load of survivors from [pause] from a boat from Argentina. Something Star. A meat boat.
DK: Right.
JP: And the women and children. We picked them up and brought them back. Then we got back here and due a bit of leave. And then posted to Yorkshire. To Driffield.
DK: Right.
JP: The main place there. And we were crewed up. Well. No. First of all we go on to a Conversion Unit.
DK: So which? Can you remember which Conversion Unit?
JP: In Lincolnshire somewhere.
DK: Right.
JP: It was Norfolk or Lincolnshire and I forget where it was.
DK: This would have been one —
JP: It’s a well-known one.
DK: Right. But this would have been one of the Heavy Conversion Units.
JP: Yeah. They were flying Harvards and the other things. The other four engine jobs. You know. The first ones.
DK: The Stirlings.
JP: The twin engine job. No. Not the — the two engine.
DK: The Anson.
JP: No. No. We’d done our training in Ansons.
DK: Yeah.
JP: No. Bigger ones.
DK: The Wellington.
JP: No. No. Different from them. Wimpy was there.
DK: Yeah.
JP: But the Wellingtons. They were ones that crashed a lot. They put four engines on them in the end and called them the Halifax.
DK: Right. The Manchester?
JP: Yeah. I think it was that.
DK: Manchester. Yeah.
JP: Yeah. So we as we got there we saw one plough in. Yeah. Now, the next morning they said, ‘Now look. We’re looking for bomb aimers. You’re a qualified bomb aimer and a qualified navigator. It’s equal pay. Equal terms.’ But you see then all the crews then were becoming not six crews but seven crews. And there was a great shortage of bomb aimers to add to the crews. So they asked for volunteers to go straight on ops, perhaps with the odd cross country, without doing a con-unit. So about ten of us stepped forward and within a couple of weeks we were crewed up at Driffield in a squadron. And a couple of cross country’s — ready for ops. Well then my pilot, we were the odd one in the crew then but we were in the crew. I was in the crew as a bomb aimer and in charge of the bombing and that. I didn’t have a bloody clue. So anyway the biggest bomb I’d dropped was the sort of five pounder in practice. Anyway, we soon caught up. They put us through the mill and so unfortunately they, the crew went on some operations. And the pilot went on his expertise, expert, expertise trip. You know, with a crew.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: And they were missing. So the crew was broken up and I was floating around. I was lucky because looking for a bomb aimer was a crew where four of them were on their second tour. The pilot was a flight lieuy. The navigator was a flying officer. The gunner was warrant officer and a whats-its name. And they were looking for — and there was I, a youngster, shovelled into this lot.
DK: With an experienced crew.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JP: So I was lucky.
DK: Can, can I just check. Which squadron was this with then?
JP: 51 then.
DK: 51. Right.
JP: 51.
DK: Ok.
JP: And my brother, who was with me at the time.
DK: Yeah.
JP: On our, when we got there we had to, we knew we’d got to part. And we got a great pile of kit in the middle of the room and it was one for you, one for me. It broke my heart, you know. The first time we’d been parted or anything like. And we shared it. Now he got into a crew as well but it was a time when the Canadians were breaking away from 4 Group to form 8 Group.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And the rest of his crew were Canadian. Most of them. Four out the six. Or five out the six. And they opted to go Canadian. Well, he went with them. Now, strangely enough they were doing some operations. They were doing minelaying or what have you. And his pilot went on an expertise trip. Was missing. So, they again were crewed up. We stayed in the area and he got most of them together. They still stayed with the Canadian group but he got a bit behind then whereas I was straight on ops. I mean by January I’d done two or three ops to Lorient and places like that.
DK: So which type of aircraft were you on in 51 Squadron then?
JP: A Halifax.
DK: A Halifax. So —
JP: Halifax. It was all Halifax from then on.
DK: So all your operations were Halifax.
JP: And so was he. Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JP: It was Yorkshire.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: They were all in Yorkshire. Around about. Well Pocklington actually. Snaith.
DK: Snaith.
JP: Was the one we were at for 51. So we did, I did, we did about half a tour with 51 and we were doing well. We were one of the crack crews and I became, although I say it myself, pretty good. I went to learn. And we did, the farce of, you know observation star sort of things. Astro. Well that was a farce. A complete and utter farce. You couldn’t do it. You know the old joke goes about they were lost and the navigator, the pilot said to the navigator, ‘Go and take an astro fix will you?’ He said. So the pilot comes back, ‘Take off your hats. You’re in St Paul’s Cathedral.’ And it was about like that. That’s the old story that got around, you know. Anyway, half way through the tour we were taken from, our pilot was promoted to squadron leader so we went to Pocklington where he took over a squadron as a squadron leader. And finished my tour there. And I had a very hot tour. We all did in there. I mean I had a very very warm tour in the end of ’42 and ’43. That was the heat of the losses.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And I was one of the lucky ones.
DK: Can you remember the name of your pilot at 51?
JP: Yeah. Squadron Leader Hay.
DK: So he went on to Pocklington then with 102.
JP: Oh yes. And took the crew with him.
DK: And you went with him.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And he then went as an instructor. I understand afterwards he had a bit of a crash and nearly wrote himself off. He was a bit wild. He was a typical, you might say a very early pilot. Mad as a bloody hatter but brilliant pilot. And the navigator then stayed but the chap doing the bomb aiming, no he was doing the navigation. That’s right. And I was then then the bomb aimer. He was a second tour man. He’d done his first flying on single engine stuff in India. He hadn’t got a clue. He had not got a clue. So we got lost on the way back from [unclear] We called Mayday and we were flagged up by searchlights flagging us up to get us home. So after that he was taken out of the crew. They got a pilot, they got an officer who was already a qualified, well-qualified navigator to take over the navigation and I then took over the bomb aiming.
DK: Right.
JP: So, from then on, apart from the fact we had a very very hard tour. And we had the toughest of the tough it was good plain sailing until they finished their, about four of them finished their second tour. I’d still got ten ops on my first tour. So their second tour was twenty, mine was thirty. So I was an odd Joe and I flew with seven different pilots. Sprog pilots, experienced pilots, wing commanders, squadron, to fill the gap. I was lucky. I mean pure luck that that I came through.
DK: So, how many operations did you do all together then?
JP: Well, counting two abortive when we had to go, they counted. And in fact we’d done a bit of operational out in South Africa. Out in South Africa, looking for Jap subs. I did a total of twenty seven full ops but the other two counted and the others patched together so really it counted for the thirty ops. I say it was twenty seven. But it was about, when you take the, what they counted. And I was ill. I’d suffered from the tonsillitis. I’d been in and out of dock. And just until my last op came. My last op was to Berlin. The one before it was Peenemunde. So you can tell it wasn’t easy. So I was taken, I was booked in to go when my tour finished. So I was now, they told me when it would finish and I was ready. Waiting for this last op to come. I was to go in to the hospital the following week to have my tonsils out. They were the bane of my life. So I got to bed. Tannoy. Would I report to sick bay. They’d made a mistake. The hospital was the next day. So I go in and of course I didn’t realise my body was upset. I mean you think the tension and that. You didn’t realise. They nearly killed me. They apologised afterwards. They should not have operated. It wouldn’t stop bleeding and they had to go deep. And afterwards, after a week I was like a wraith. Lost no end of weight and, and I came [laughs] when I went out the doctor said, well he said, would you, I’d been to Berlin the night before. When I got in there it was on the news about the Berlin raid. I said to the bloke, ‘Yeah, it was pretty rough.’ ‘Why?’ ‘Well, I was there.’ ‘He was there. He was there.’ All the nurses gathered around. I was the hero [laughs] So ,so anyway it, I came home on a bit of leave.
DK: So you, so you survived a trip to Berlin and then —
JP: Yeah.
DK: Were in hospital.
JP: The next day I was having my tonsils out.
DK: Oh dear.
JP: Now, my twin brother was on the way and they’d transferred from Halifaxes to Lancs.
DK: Right.
JP: And their first Lanc trip was a Berlin which was the Berlin following the one I went on. The last Berlin in ’43. And I was on the one before when we lost a lot of aircraft. But he was on that one. The first trip in a Lanc. They were shot down and killed over Leeuwarden in Holland.
DK: Oh dear.
JP: So that was it. It broke my heart that did. I didn’t know what to do with myself. And I was shovelled around then.
DK: Can you remember which squadron your brother was with?
JP: It was [pause] an American in the Canadian air force. I did, well names have got me.
DK: Yeah. Ok.
JP: I think it was 425. It was something like that. One of the Canadian squadrons in the north.
DK: Yeah.
JP: Yorkshire. Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JP: We met from time to time. In fact the Canadian uniform was a bit better than ours and he came down one day with a pilot’s uniform on. I said, ‘What —?’ He said, ‘Well my pilot is staying with us but he’s a Yank so he’s transferred to the Yanks. Still as a pilot.’ Getting double pay sort of thing and more comfort, ‘And this is his uniform.’ So he swapped my old one for this and I had a new uniform.
DK: Oh well.
JP: Well, I said at the last thing when we were in East London we were qualified and we got pinned things on. Our things for South African officers to come around, a general or something, and pin them on and a band played. That sort of thing. So the last, we had a course dinner, the menu’s in there. And this flight lieutenant gets up and, words of wisdom, he said, ‘Now, there’s one thing I’d like to say.’ I’ll never forget this. ‘Before we go out tomorrow on parade you’ve got to look your best,’ and he said, ‘And Pragnells get your bloody hair cut.’ [laughs] See we’d both got double crowns. When you cut that short it stands up like a hedgehog [laughs]. And they didn’t know the difference anyway. We got away with blue murder.
DK: So, what, what was your feelings about flying in the Halifax then? Was it a [unclear]
JP: Well, we worshipped the Halifax. Yeah. See, it’s a lost machine now but it did more. It towed gliders, it did Met, it did bombing, it did transport. It did everything, the Halifax. Whereas the Lanc
DK: Yeah.
JP: Faster, higher, newer, only did bombing. And of course we hadn’t got all the equipment. We had to manage with the old Mark 9 bombsight where we set our own. And it was impossible to take an astrofix because you couldn’t get it steady enough. We set the bombsight ourselves. Well inaccurate because you can’t get the exact speed. Now the Mark 10, the last few I got, the speed, the speed and that was fed in, and the height, was fed in electronically. But we had the, the what’s the name box for a few but they had all the latest equipment. We just had DR and that was it.
DK: Yeah.
JP: So, we, I mean we worshipped the Halifax. It took us there. Got us back. And now mention the Halifax you’re treated with scorn, ‘that bloody thing.’ Yet it did all. It was like the Hurricane and Spitfire. Hurricane did the work. The Spitfire got the credit because of the name.
DK: Yeah.
JP: Hurricane. Lanc got the credit because new aircraft flying higher, faster than anything and got all the credit. But we did a hell of a lot of work. In fact we got to, say about twenty thousand feet. They were above us but below us were the Stirlings and the Wimpies and the Wellingtons. We did our bombing runs on them and they did their bombing runs on us [laughs] yeah.
DK: Could you, could you actually see much at night then? Could you see?
JP: Well, it depended on the cloud.
DK: Yeah.
JP: I mean the Peenemunde raid was a one off. It was absolutely clear moonlight. It was like daylight and we went in at fifteen thousand lower. And it was a must. It frightened the life out of us. They briefed us. They said, they locked the doors and you mustn’t breathe a word. If a word gets out we’re finished. It’s got to be deadly secret to get this place where they’re making the V-2s or V-1s. And so all this. It’s dangerous. And you’re going out at a lower level. And you’ve got to go whatever the weather. If you don’t go tonight you’ve got to go to it and then it will be twice as bad because by then the Germans probably would have known.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And they did a fake run to Berlin. So we got over Denmark and we got to Flensburg and we were coned. Now to get coned was suicide. When you’ve got a bomb load and once they got you in the cone of light you couldn’t see and the only way out was to get down below the angle. So you came down with a loaded bomber and you had a job to pull out. It was almost suicide to get caught. And they either fired up the flak or get the night fighters on you. But of course we were lucky. The night fighters had all gone —
DK: Yeah.
JP: To stop this, what was going to be a trip to Berlin. And they weren’t there. So that was just an incident where I had the luck, you know.
DK: At the briefing for Peenemunde —
JP: Yeah.
DK: Did they tell you what was being made in the factories?
JP: Yes.
DK: They did.
JP: Yes. We knew about this WAAF. WAAF had seen the photograph. And the, and the Poles had already, give them credit, the Poles were the bravest of the brave. They pinched a chunk of wood and they’d got it over through Sweden. So we’d got more idea and also don’t forget our Buckinghamshire team was taking the secret doc, the secret meetings of the Germans.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: They could learn. So we knew more than they thought we knew. They told us all about it and said what it was and said we’d got to wipe it out because it was the V-1 then and that was creating havoc. It was frightening. You know, putt putt putt and down it came. And it was creating a bit of panic. And when the V-2 came it didn’t even make that sound. Explode half a town you know. So, they told us we’d got to go and we’d got to get it. Now, the Yanks followed a day or two later. But the Yanks got all the credit. They weren’t even there. On that Peenemunde raid where we dropped people in to sort of stifle it and that, the RAF did it. Yeah. When we got there not a sound. It was way way way into Denmark. Past the Kattegat up in the Baltic and we went on in straight line as if we go up to Sweden or turn starboard to Germany. To Berlin. That was up there. And suddenly we were, we knew we’d got to find this place. They stuck out in the water. This sort of bulbous sort of bit of land. No searchlights. No flak. And as we turned to go in, oh then all hell was let loose. We were on the first wave. So we were through and out. Out the other side before too much trouble. But those that followed got hammered.
DK: Yeah. Could you see much of the target as you dropped your bombs at Peenemunde?
JP: No. You could see the, that raid yeah you could see the huts and the buildings.
DK: Yeah.
JP: But normally when you were at twenty five thousand and don’t forget you’re not going to a flat surface. You’re going to a sea of fire. Flames. Kites going down. Green and red, what’s the name of it on the ground and the searchlights and night fighters. So you, you didn’t see much. And it got all smoky if not cloudy. So, on a good night going in you could pick out the rivers and the main road. The [unclear] were light. They were like big white sort of lights. And the, and the woods. Well later on of course when I then went on to glider, glider towing, paratroop dropping at low level a different kettle of fish. We map read everywhere then on the shape of the woods and the rivers. But you only saw the minor ones up there. You could see enough. Well you could say look there’s a load of flak ahead. That’s probably, you look at your map, that’s probably the town of so and so. Go to starboard to avoid it. And then the pilot would say, ‘How far do you think we are Frank from — ’ and I’d sort of, ‘Ten miles.’ Alright. It was a good crew and they relied on everybody.
DK: Can you, can you still name your crew then?
JP: I can. Yeah. Well. Ron Hay was the pilot. Dougie Henderson was the rear gunner. John Garland was the w/op AG. The rear, the mid-upper gunner was a young lad who lost his life in a car, in a coach accident when we’d only had him a week or two. And then an Aussie joined us, Arthur Evans. And we were friends. And the navigator. I hardly spoke to him because he was in his little enclave and he was an officer. We were all NCOs except Doug. Well, when they finished the tour the pilot he had us in. He said, ‘Well, what can I do? Would you like me to recommend you for a commission?’ The rear gunner said yes. I said, he asked me, I said no because I was not going to get beyond my brother. Imagine. Identical twins. One walking down the street with a commission and one not. I couldn’t do it.
DK: No.
JP: So I said no. I was offered it. Only if I’d taken the chance I’d have done probably a lot better but I wouldn’t take it.
DK: Did you find that a bit difficult that your crew, some of the crew were officers?
JP: Yeah.
DK: And yourself NCO. So you wouldn’t mix socially or —
JP: Yeah. You wouldn’t mix socially unless they would. But they weren’t really allowed to. They did up to a point. We’d go out for a drink now and again but then we’d go our own way.
DK: But you didn’t see that as a problem in the crew itself.
JP: No. No. No. We were all mad and all equally sort of wanted to go. And I never saw, I did with a couple of crews I flew with, saw much panic. You see the bravery was not going on ops where you were shot down. Because you didn’t expect to be. You hoped not to be. The bravery was going the next day and the next day. I mean in successive. In there you’ll see I did four ops in five days. Absolutely tired out. It wasn’t just the op. The next day you had to go to get your aircraft ready. If there was not a malfunction you had to go and do a little flight test. Had to get all the equipment ready and be briefed all day. So you never got any sleep.
DK: No.
JP: And of course when you got to bed you were too tired to sleep and too exhilarated. There was a certain exhilaration when you got back.
DK: I was going to say how did you feel as you got out of the aircraft after, after the mission? After the operation.
JP: Happy. You know. Very contented. Very very pleased with life. And we used to, we didn’t feel boastful or anything like that. We’d got to go to be debriefed of course with the old padre there. And he used to hand out the fags and I didn’t smoke so I used to give mine away. And then we had, always looked forward to egg and chips. Egg and chips. And if any crews were missing we ate their eggs. But you wouldn’t know. See, you only knew your own crew basically. You knew the others in passing but everything was, everything was together. You trained together, you flew together and you went out together. Had a drink together. You see you were right out in the country. Not much you could do. So you got the old bike and went to the nearest pub. And if they hadn’t got any beer we’d go to the next one. And then we’d find a little social dance. That sort of thing.
DK: Yeah.
JP: You couldn’t do anything. Occasionally we got in to York. I went to Leeds a couple of times. And I believe, and I can’t remember how but I went to Sheffield once. Didn’t get on there because we hadn’t got time. We’d just go for the evening and wander around and have a drink and —
DK: And then.
JP: That was it.
DK: As you were then told the next day another operation how did you feel then as you were getting in the aircraft?
JP: Well, quite, quite glad really. You were getting through them. I remember I sort of started putting a number by my ops. And, and so they said, ‘We don’t count. We don’t count the ops. We just do them.’ But you did. In your mind. You knocked another one off. And it got more sort of you know the early, oh yeah but when you got in your twenties and people all around you were missing. You didn’t know whether they’d been shot down, whether they’d finish their tour, whether they’d left. And all this. It was come and go all the time. You couldn’t settle anywhere. Only with your own crew.
DK: Yeah.
JP: Because if you made friends because they were missing the next night. That wasn’t to say they were missing. They were posted away to somewhere else. It was a come and go. So there was that community of crew. They were more or less everything. And you got on well with them. Well most of them. Some, some you didn’t. But you were so closely knit together and there was a camaraderie about it. And I met two crews that panicked a bit. One of them supposed to be one of the, actually I flew with them a couple of times. And they’d done well on the thousand bomber raid and the pilot had got his, had got a gong out of it. So they were supposed to be a good crew. But they got behind somehow and the bomb aimer had gone, I reckon he’d gone to LMF. Lack of moral fibre. They used to take them out and strip them, you know. Lack of moral fibre they call it. Nerves didn’t count. None of this psychology or that sort of thing. You were whipped away. If you were an officer, reduced to, well kept your commission but reduced in rank to the menial jobs. If you were an NCO you lost your rank and everything else.
DK: And this crew. Did you think the bomb aimer then was, had had some problems?
JP: The bomb aimer had a lot. You see, I was the one who, well out of them I’d done a bit of flying on the Tiger and the Anson and whatnot. More than they had, some of them. And I was the one who used to help the pilot at his take off because you needed two. One to help push it up.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And I was the one that helped him on landing. And, and I was the one he referred to. Now, you see if you go to Berlin you’ve got over an eight hour trip. Well the pilot can’t get and have a quick wee. There’s nobody there. Now on one occasion he put it into George which was the automatic pilot, ‘Here you are Prag. Have a go at this.’ And I held this, frightened to death while he went and had a quick wee. But they relied on you so much.
DK: So your job also included flying the aircraft then when he needed a break.
JP: Well, it didn’t really but it depended on the pilot. He used to let me have a go now and again but when he was a, I didn’t, I wasn’t good enough to sort of take it on and like it.
DK: So, on, on a typical operation then as, as you as the bomb aimer.
JP: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: What was your role when you got on the aircraft and you took off? Are you helping the navigator?
JP: Well, the navigator. He was in his little sort of hut thing and I, I didn’t want to be a navigator because you couldn’t see what was going on. You could only hear. Whereas a bomb aimer you had the freedom of the aircraft.
DK: Right.
JP: And you were more or less in charge of that part of the aircraft in many ways.
DK: Did, did your job involve anything to do with the bombs before they went on the aircraft? Would you check them?
JP: No. The armourers did that.
DK: Right.
JP: You saw them and watched them winch them on but it was the armourers that did it. You knew how to, if it didn’t go off they’d was a little pannier thing you could undo and pull a toggle and get it, release it.
DK: Yeah.
JP: You’re not supposed to, you couldn’t bring them back because you couldn’t land with them or they’d have gone up and blown you up. And if you’d still got them when you got back you had to drop them in a dropping zone. Ours was in, in the North Sea. And —
DK: Did you have any that didn’t drop? That you, you had to —
JP: I believe, I didn’t know but the flight engineer, he was often, he was a Scotsman and he was often half drunk. He said there’s a couple of, a couple of bombs there. So I went down to look. I pulled the toggle but whether it released the bomb or not I don’t know. But I think once, yes in the North Sea there. See, you got, what’s-it Glenn Miller lost on a place like that when they came back and dropped their bombs. They reckon that’s where, how he lost his life.
DK: Yeah. As you, as you’re approaching the target then.
JP: Yeah.
DK: You’re in the front. You’re looking down.
JP: Yeah.
DK: And then what’s your role there? Do you arm the bombs and then drop them?
JP: Well, you do the map reading in. The pilot, the navigator’s supposed to get you within range and then it was yours and you do the, you see the target where the green and red flares were. And the Pathfinders above were saying bomb on the green flares because there had been an accident and the red had drifted away. Or bomb on the red. Or right between the two. So you directed it in between all the flak and the flame to where you think the target was. And you go on, you know, ‘Left. Left.’ You said, ‘Left. Left.’ And ‘Right,’ So if you said the same so you didn’t get the same tone.
DK: Right.
JP: ‘Left. Left. Steady. Steady.’ And when you were approaching you had the bomb doors open. You had to open them ready and you kept them open ‘til after you’d dropped your bomb for the photograph. As you closed the doors so the photograph was cut off. So you had to, as long as you, the time was how long your bombs would take to drop and each bomb had a different timing because they were different. Smooth or whatever. And they were different weights. So they had the speed they entered so all that had to be entered on your bombsight. So it was done automatically later but we had to enter it on a height bar and, and another knob here, another knob there. And then we got the information as we flew. And then you’d drop it as you said, ‘Bombs gone,’ And then you get the panic. ‘Get rid of them. Go.’ And you’d got you had to be cool, calm and collected until that photograph went off. The flash went off. Because that was taking, you see the bombs didn’t go down like that. They go on an arc with the speed and they were there. They’d say, oh bomb here. They’d land over by you, you see. So we had to wait that time. It seemed like an age. And you couldn’t turn around and come back because you were going in to your own people. You had to fly on over Germany and then so many miles they’d either turn. You didn’t know whether you were going to turn port or starboard to find the way out.
DK: As, as the bombs left the aircraft could you feel the aeroplane.
JP: Yeah. You felt it go. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: And what, what was the crews reaction as they’re waiting for you to drop the bombs?
JP: [laughs] Going mad. ‘Close the f’ing doors,’ [laughs] And I used to, I was the youngster you know. They were all older than I was. I was supposed to be cool, calm and collected. The pilot was good. The pilot would do everything you told him to do and yet he was probably the most experienced pilot in the Group. So we got all the big jobs. The Berlins and the Peenemunde and we got the Hamburg raid when we wiped it out with Window. It’s all in there in that book of mine. Yeah.
DK: Can I have a look at the logbook?
JP: Yeah.
[pause]
JP: Now, that’s precious. If you look in the back there’s all the stations, all stations of it and there’s a picture of myself and my brother there in that envelope.
DK: Can I?
JP: Have a look at that. Yeah.
DK: I’ll be very careful with it.
JP: That’s alright.
DK: You were alike [laughs]
JP: We were nineteen there. That was taken just after we got home from South Africa
DK: I don’t know how people told you —
JP: They didn’t.
DK: Yeah.
JP: They didn’t. You can see. You can see why we were known as, we were known as Prag by the crew.
DK: So are you on the left or the right?
JP: I think on the left.
DK: You think [laughs]
JP: From me it would be the left.
DK: Left. Right.
JP: Yeah. I think so. Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Lovely.
JP: Broke my heart when he was killed. Part of me went. And I had a hell of a time after that. I wasn’t happy.
DK: No. I can understand.
JP: It’s got all my qualifications in there of course.
DK: So I’ll read this out for the recording. So you were on Ansons here. This was in Rhodesia.
JP: Yeah. That was —
DK: East London.
JP: The Navigation.
DK: Yeah. East London.
JP: Yeah. That was South Africa.
DK: South Africa. Yeah. Yeah.
JP: And the Oxfords were bombing.
DK: So you were on Fairey Battles as well.
JP: Pardon?
DK: Battles. Fairey Battles.
JP: Yeah. That was the gunnery.
DK: Yeah.
JP: We used to fire at a drogue being towed by, what have we got here?
DK: And Oxfords.
JP: Oxfords. That was the gunnery.
DK: Yeah.
JP: That was the, you know, the bombing.
DK: That’s South Africa. So it’s 102 Squadron. And then it says 1652 Conversion Unit.
JP: Yeah. That, well we went there for a couple of weeks. That’s all. You see I didn’t get, I didn’t start until late in 1942. Yet I was doing my ops in ’42 and ’43. Yeah.
DK: And then on to 51 Squadron at Snaith.
JP: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: So that’s Halifaxes.
JP: Yeah. See Pocklington was the holding unit then.
DK: Right.
JP: The head of the Group.
DK: So Lorient, so Cologne.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Wilhelmshaven.
JP: Yeah. Wilhelmshaven. Yeah.
DK: It says here Nuremberg. Engine. Engine u/s. Bombs jettisoned.
JP: Yeah. We had to come back. Yeah. We got there and more or less had to drop the bombs and had to come out. That counted as an op because we’d got more than half way I believe.
DK: So this is February 1943. And then there’s Cologne. And then St Nazaire in France.
JP: Yeah.
DK: So Berlin on the 1st of March.
JP: Yeah. I did three Berlins. And you’ll find there were ten Essens as well.
DK: Right.
JP: Three Essens in there.
DK: So the 1st of March was Berlin.
JP: Yeah.
DK: The 5th of March, Essen.
JP: Yeah.
DK: The 9th of March, Munich.
JP: Yeah.
DK: The 12th of March, Essen.
JP: Well, would you get a harder tour than that anywhere? Suicide.
DK: Well, you had a bit of a break here. It’s the 26th was Duisburg. And then 27th of March, Berlin again.
JP: Yeah.
DK: So then April. 3rd of April, Essen.
JP: Yeah.
DK: April the 4th Kiel. The 8th of April, Duisburg. The 14th of April, Stuttgart. And then they’ve given you another rest here [laughs] May 13th Bochum.
JP: Bochum.
DK: And then?
JP: Dortmund. Bochum.
DK: Yeah.
JP: Dortmund. Dusseldorf.
DK: And then 23rd of May, Dortmund.
JP: Yeah. They were all the Ruhr Valley.
DK: 25th of May, Dusseldorf. Sorry. So July the 24th was Hamburg.
JP: Yeah.
DK: So that would have been the big raid on Hamburg.
JP: That would have been the [pause] when we wiped it out with the firestorm yeah.
DK: And then 25th of July, Essen. August the 2nd , Hamburg. August the 8th Nuremberg. Milan.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Milan, Italy.
JP: We didn’t get there. We got, we couldn’t get over the, had engine trouble so we got as far as the Alps. Had to turn around and come back.
DK: So that, it actually says engine u/s. Bombs jettisoned.
JP: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: And then August the 17th Peenemunde.
JP: Yeah.
DK: And it says you landed back at Middleton St George.
JP: Yeah. Yeah. We couldn’t get in. We were fog bound. Our place.
DK: Right. And then August 22nd Leverkusen. 23rd of August, Berlin again. So that, that presumably would have been, oh it says you were then screened from operations.
JP: Yeah.
DK: September 1943.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Wow.
JP: In the further ops you will see, if you turn over, on the, when I re-mustered. I couldn’t stand Training Command after my brother was missing. And I had a row with the wing commander. So I volunteered for another thing and found out it was glider towing.
DK: That was with 298 Squadron.
JP: Yeah.
DK: Tarrant Rushton. So, you were, you were towing the gliders then.
JP: Yeah. Yeah. We took a Hamilcar in the big bugger.
DK: Hamilcars. Yeah.
[pause]
JP: Then I did an instructors course at Number 1 Air Armament School, Manby. Which was, by then, by that time the war was, we weren’t needed after that. They didn’t know what to do with us.
DK: Yeah. So, so, that’s May 1945. You’re on Wellingtons then.
JP: Yeah.
DK: What was that like? Flying Wellingtons after the Halifax.
JP: Wellington was probably the best aircraft of the war. It did everything.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And it was still going strong at the end of the war.
DK: And that was —
JP: Very strong. You know the geodetic construction.
DK: Yeah.
JP: And it stood up to any. It burned because it was fabric. You could reckon if a Wellington crashed it was going to burn. We did crash in it. Is it there we crashed? A ten minute trip.
DK: Was that at Manby?
JP: No. That was later on. During that time. So, when I was in Training Command. On one of the odd trips.
DK: Yeah. So [pause] so when, when did you leave the air force then?
JP: When? It’s in my book. My service book there.
DK: So would it have been about that time?
JP: No. It was —
Other: ’46 I think.
DK: ’46. Ok.
JP: It was a bit later. 1946 I think. Yeah.
Other: Yeah. May. May ’46.
JP: Yeah. I did just over five years.
DK: Yeah. And what did you do after that? When you —
JP: Well, I didn’t know what. I wasn’t going back to my job. I couldn’t stand the thought of a tin pot office job. And I had straight, I had a couple of months leave and about two hundred quid to spend. You know, as the generous air force. And I was walking home one day having told Manfields. They offered me a job. Offered me a good job. I couldn’t go back. Couldn’t go back indoors. So, I was walking home along St George’s Avenue which was by the technical college and out shot one of the teachers who was my old teacher when I was at school. And he’d been an officer in the cadets. So I used to meet him at the odd dance at the Salon and whatnot. And he used to speak. So he said, ‘Hello,’ he said. Well I was demobbed. He said, ‘What are you going to do?’ I said, ‘I don’t know. I’ve got a couple of hundred quid in the bank. I’ve got a couple of months leave and I don’t know what I’m going to do.’ I said, ‘I’m not going back to my old job although they said I could. It’s a waste of time. I’m not going back there.’ He said, ‘Well, why don’t you take up teaching?’ I said, ‘Well can I?’ He said, ‘Well, you’re a qualified instructor to start with.’ Which was better than a teaching diploma. He said, ‘And furthermore you were one of my bright lads,’ he said, ‘Yeah,’ he said. I said, ‘What do you do?’ He said, ‘Well, I’ll get the papers and I’ll sign. I’ll recommend you. You’ll have to get another recommendation and get the papers filled in and then wait.’ Well, I did this. Within about a fortnight I was accepted. And they sat down, ‘You don’t need to be qualified. You can start straight away.’ I was teaching within a month. A class of my own in a school. Well, I had that for about eighteen months. Then I went to college then and then after a few years I got a headship. Then a bigger headship. And that was it. Twenty odd years ahead. I was a magistrate for twenty seven years in addition.
DK: Oh right.
JP: And all sorts of other things.
DK: So how, how do you look back on your time in Bomber Command now? How do you feel about it after seventy odd years?
JP: A bit of a joke. And, you know, the bombastic sort of people there. Well one wing commander. I was introduced. When we went back for my second tour they were crewing up from all over. And I was the one who had done most. I’d done a tour of ops. None of the others had. So, we went through, ‘Now, what have you done?’ I said, ‘Well, you can ask the others. Well, I’ve done a tour of ops.’ ‘You did what?’ I said, ‘A tour of ops.’ ‘On what aircraft?’ ‘Halifaxes.’ I learned afterwards he’d flown Halifaxes. And he tapped his chest, the bombastic bugger and said, ‘And didn’t you get one of these?’ I said, ‘No. My name didn’t come with a NAAFI ration.’ He went mad. ‘These have to be earned,’ he said [laughs] He didn’t like that and I didn’t like him. I had a big row with him later though. You see I missed out through being ill. Immediately afterwards for two to three weeks I wasn’t there and that was when things were being disposed of. I was told I was getting a gong. I didn’t get it.
DK: Oh really.
JP: I was also told, I went up for commission but didn’t get it. I think it had gone before that I’d had a row. When my brother was finally reported killed my mother was suicidal. And we were on then glider towing. Now, that half of England nothing was allowed out. No phone call. No letters. No anything. You were not allowed out if you were in that, in the forces because of the secrecy of it for D-Day. This went on for several weeks. Well, my father sent a pre-paid telegram. And mum, they knew I was back on ops because his friend in the Bournemouth had told him. He’d got a friend there. But didn’t know what ops. And of course she got the wind up. Thought it was like my brother. And then she was suicidal. And I didn’t know what to do. So he wrote and said, ‘Look, you must come home.’ So, I went to the wing commander. This bombastic devil. He didn’t think much of me and I didn’t think much of him anyway. I let it be known. So I sat I’m on my own [laughs] frequently. So anyway, he, he was there in the crew room surrounded by people. I said, ‘Look, it’s important. Could I have a forty eight hour pass?’ ‘Forty eight hour pass. Why?’ I said, ‘Well, my twin brother has finally been reported killed and my mother’s suicidal.’ ‘Well, what good can you do?’ I looked him up and down. I said, ‘I’ll bloody soon show you what good I can do,’ I said, ‘For one thing my MP will know. Another thing the Daily Mirror, which was the forces favourite, that will know. And another thing you will be on the bloody grass.’ He looked at me and I turned around and walked away. I took the forty eight hour pass. And when I was home my mother made me promise not to fly again. I was heartbroken. I didn’t know what to do. I mean I was on my own. I was no longer had to, got a mate. I’d been a loner. When he was missing I became a loner because I couldn’t, couldn’t gel.
DK: No.
JP: So I went back and I said, ‘Look. I’m not flying anymore.’ Well, the crew couldn’t understand it. They could understand but they knew why. The CO, well the CO was the one I’d had the row with. But the one below him, the squadron leader, he was a lovely bloke. He was a bit older and a bit more understanding. And he had a bit more authority really. He was long established. And so I used to have to report to him every day. He said, ‘Will you fly?’ ‘No.’ He said, ‘Now look,’ he said, ‘Normally if they can’t fly they are stripped of their rank and that,’ he said, ‘Because you’ve done a tour of ops we feel we can’t do that to you but,’ he said, ‘Your crew is standing by.’ And D-Day was, turned out to be about a fortnight later. ‘Is waiting. And you’re one of the leading crews. But the crew can’t fly without you. So, at the moment the wing commander realises that he should not have said what he said. He hasn’t reported it. But Group want to know and they’ll have to.’ So anyway I was standing on my own in the navigator’s room just looking around. And nobody wanted to know me. I was a bloody pariah you know. And in comes this wing commander. And he looks me up and down. ‘Pragnell.’ ‘Yeah.’ No sir. I never called him sir again in my life. He said, ‘Well, I want to fly up to Wing.’ We thought he had a lady friend at Wing. Near Leighton Buzzard there. He used to go frequently. Perhaps it was a Group meeting. I don’t know. He says, ‘I want a crew.’ He said, ‘Will you fly?’ I looked him up and down. I said, ‘Yes.’ ‘Right,’ he said , ‘We’ll get a crew together,’ and so and so. So, I had to go round and get a gunner and a what’s the name and we flew him up there. I flew him up there. Got him there. I didn’t bother to navigate. I map read him up because I was good at that by then. I’d map read over France and very good at it. So anyway I got off for the sake of the other lad I got a proper course. Flew him back. We got back to Brize Norton. That was our headquarters. And he said, ‘I know where I am.’ So, ‘Right.’ So he flew back and dropped us off and I then went back in to my crew. And then came D-Day of course. So then very shortly after D-Day, now whether it was because I was more experienced as I was or whether he didn’t like me as I think it was I was taken out of my crew within, with several others. But whole crews. To form a new Conversion Unit up near Nottingham somewhere. To train for the Far East.
DK: Right.
JP: And we, well as soon as we got there the war virtually finished so we weren’t, we were posted all over the place then. So I was taken out. Not, with this other crew and flown up to this place to help form this unit. Well, we got together, did a bit of instructing but then the runways apparently wouldn’t take the weight of the bigger aircraft. So we moved to Saltby, which you probably know. Lincolnshire way.
DK: Yeah.
JP: We went there in convoy and I was given charge of a couple of lorries. A handful of erks and a lorry load of stuff to go down and went through Burton on Trent and through there. And I got relatives in Burton on Trent so, ‘We’ll have an hour here lads.’ So we stayed there and I went and saw my relatives and had a cup of tea with them and we went back in to Saltby. And I got the best billet. Well, that didn’t last long. We moved on again. We went to Marston Moor. We went somewhere else. That’s all in there where we went to. And we weren’t wanted. Because they’d got so many like us that had finished their ops they didn’t know what to do with them.
DK: No.
JP: They made lorry drivers and engine drivers out off of lots of them. And I got a lovely little number myself. I I got in to a department. Only a flight lieutenant and he was in charge of the bombing equipment and the distribution of it. And the bomb dump was absolutely full. Old wings, parts of engines, mechanical stuff. And it was brimming over. And he gave me the job with a lorry and a couple of erks who knew what they were doing, and a driver to go out each day. And they sorted out the pick of the stuff. Expensive metals. And we’d go to York every day. We’d drop this off. And go back there the next day. Marvellous time I had. And I, and there’s all sorts of things going. You know you couldn’t get coat hangers for love or money. Now, there was, hanging all around this room where the gas capes had been there were three coat hangers on each peg. Little did the flight lieutenant know. A bit later there were only two of these coat hangers on each peg. When he came to me one day, he said, ‘Oh, you can have a coat hanger.’ ‘Oh, thank you very much.’ All my mates had got coat hangers. Another time he came and said, ‘Well we’ve got so much stuff.’ They’d got farming equipment, barbed wire, these stakes that went in and the farmers were crying out for stuff. He said, ‘We’ve invited some of the local farmers to come and have some. So,’ he said, ‘Go and see to it.’ So I went up there and there were these farmers with their tractors. ‘Well, what can I have?’ ‘I don’t know. Have what you like.’ They were loading on the barbed wire and I came in for a lot of eggs that day. It was a lovely time. I was completely in charge of myself and nobody bothered me.
DK: But the stuff was being used. It was being used usefully on the farms though wasn’t it?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
JP: Yeah. They were very friendly actually. The farmers. It was back up in Yorkshire of course see. Where I knew. All my flying. That was Linton on Ouse this was.
DK: Right.
JP: Yeah. Yeah. At the big one up there. But the rest of it was Pocklington and Elvington and Snaith. And my twin brother was Holme on Spalding Moor and Northallerton and around there. Yeah. It was in Northallerton that one of them took my tonsils out. That was a joke. He said, ‘Well, come on. You’ve got to go.’ So I had to get up and get dressed and I got an ambulance to take me. And it was the old ambulances. No sirens. It was ring bells. And everywhere we went for a bit of fun he rang the bell. And the people were lining the street. And when we got there he rang the bell. Pulled up. People were watching. And I climbed out [laughs] I saw life.
DK: Oh dear. Ok. Well that, that —
JP: Sorry to bore you but —
DK: No. That’s, that’s great. I’ll stop it there.
JP: Yeah.
DK: That’s been marvellous. Thanks, thanks very much for your time.
Other: When you’ve stopped it —
DK: Still going.
JP: Well, if you want to —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jack Pragnell
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
APragnellJ160526
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:02:19 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Description
An account of the resource
Jack Pragnell and his twin brother Thomas volunteered together for the RAF and trained together. Jack flew operations as a bomb aimer with 51 Squadron. His brother joined a Canadian crew. Jack was plagued with health problems and was suddenly told his operation to have his tonsils removed would be taking place the next day. It was only during his convalescence that he realised just how the stress of operations had already affected him. His brother and his crew were shot down and killed which devastated Jack. After his tour he joined Training Command before joining 298 Squadron towing gliders.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
South Africa
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
England--Dorset
England--Yorkshire
France--Lorient
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Munich
Germany--Peenemünde
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Italy--Milan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
102 Squadron
298 Squadron
51 Squadron
aircrew
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
fear
Halifax
Hamilcar
lack of moral fibre
RAF Pocklington
RAF Snaith
RAF Tarrant Rushton
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1093/11552/PRichardsHJ1807.1.jpg
e9d3ee17efe52dc06e2593c9249ef399
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1093/11552/ARichardsHJ180219.2.mp3
bd7288acde305764a090df198fd0dad8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Richards, Harold James
H J Richards
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Harold James Richards (1922 - 2020, 1451874 Royal Air Force) photographs and his log book. He flew operations as a navigator with 297 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Harold Richards and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Richards, HJ
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. The person being interviewed is Harold James Richards. Also known as Rick to his family, and Harry. The interviewer is myself, Cathy Brearley. Also present is Marion Giddings who is Harry’s neighbour. And the date today is Monday the 19th of February 2018. This interview is taking place at Harry’s home in Lincoln. So, first of all Harry I’d like to thank you for giving us this interview. And please could you begin by talking a little bit about your childhood. Where you were born and where you grew up and about your family and your early years.
HR: I was born in Lincoln. A couple of miles from here. And I lived in Lincoln all my childhood really. And moving around various parts in that sort of area. In the centre. The centre sort of in Lincoln. And then I did my schooling in Lincoln. And eventually left school when I was eighteen which was fast approaching the outbreak of war.
CB: Yeah. What line of work was your father in? And your mother if she worked?
HR: What?
CB: What line of work were your parents in?
HR: My father was a printing operator. Operated some sort of printing machine for one of the local papers. Mother didn’t work of course because I had a sister and two brothers. All older than me. I was the babba of the family. And [pause] well, my normal school life came to an end when I was sixteen actually. And I went and started my first job in the National Health Service. Well, it wasn’t the National Health Service then but it was a health service. And —
CB: And what was that you were doing?
HR: Clerical. And I stayed in that until I decided it was getting a bit — time for call up. So, I made the decision that I would volunteer. And at that point I volunteered for the air force having had previous training with the Air Training Corps and things like that. Sort of local interests with the airfields local. Scampton and Waddington you see. They were all on the go in those days. And eventually in oh would it be ’41 I was called up to [pause] Well, I joined up. Let’s put it that way.
CB: Yes.
HR: I can’t remember where I went to. I know where I went to but I can’t remember the name.
CB: Yes. Yes.
HR: And eventually one of the places I went to in my call up area was Lord’s Cricket Ground in London. Stayed down there and then ultimately I was brought into the service. Joined up. And joined up as a trainee aircrew and did my training. Part of which was in Scarborough. And eventually, having finished my, that sort of training I was then joined a flying school. Flying training. But I didn’t do very well at that. I wasn’t a blue eyed boy there and eventually I was told that they could do a lot better without me so I had to re-muster. And at that stage I was in Carlisle I think and my next move actually was on board ship. And I was sent to South Africa to [pause] not complete but to start a new period of training. And I did precisely the same in Bulawayo as I’d been doing in Scarborough. Slightly, the temperature was slightly different [laughs] And eventually I moved up the ladder there and finished my elementary training and was then signed on for air observer. And at that time I went to [pause]
[recording paused]
CB: So it was near —
HR: Near Pretoria.
CB: Right. Ok. Can I just ask you a few questions about some of the information you’ve already given?
HR: Yeah.
CB: When you went to Lord’s Cricket Ground how long were you there for and what happened there?
HR: A flying visit [laughs] Not really a flying one but in and out. There was no training or anything there. It was merely a sort of attestation. That type of thing, you know.
CB: So that’s the enrolment paperwork.
HR: But it sounds good in your —
CB: And did you have a medical somewhere?
HR: Yes. I would have had the medical in the first one I went to which was the main [pause] the main joining up place. I can’t think of the name of it. That’s my trouble.
CB: That’s ok. And then flying school in Carlisle.
HR: Yeah. Well, that was just —
CB: Tell me about Carlisle. What happened there? How long were you there for?
HR: About two months. I was flying. Part of my sort of my pilot’s training course but that that was I found I got my final papers from them. And as I say it finished up on the boat out to South Africa.
CB: And what aircraft did you fly on your training?
HR: Magisters .
CB: Sorry?
HR: Magisters.
CB: And then you went on the ship to South Africa.
HR: And then we went on ship to South Africa.
CB: And how long did that journey take?
HR: Not very long because we went sort of on our own and — no. Sorry. We went with an escort. We were in a — what did they call it? Convoy. Went in a convoy. So it took us about three weeks I think.
CB: Right.
HR: And then we landed in Cape. When we landed in Cape Town we got on board the train which took us up, all the way up country to Bulawayo in what was in those days Rhodesia.
CB: So, what happened during those three weeks on ship?
HR: Nothing. Apart from just keeping yourself occupied really. As far as I remember. I suppose we would have had talks and lectures and things like that. They’d obviously have to keep up the, the appearance.
CB: Of training.
HR: [laughs]
CB: So when you got to Bulawayo —
HR: Yeah.
CB: What happened there?
HR: I did a — I went back to elementary training. Nothing to do with flying. I went back on to the same as I’d done in this country. And I did that course and then it was from there that I moved over to Pretoria and started my [pause] Well, I suppose in those days it was air bombing course.
CB: And how long did that last?
HR: Can you leave that? I’ll get it but it’ll be in the —
CB: It’ll be in your logbook. Yes. Ok. Yeah. Yes. So —
HR: And after that it was a question of coming back to this country and eventually I was posted to the squadron which was 297 Squadron. And it was posted, it was at a place called Stoney Cross in Hampshire. This was just a — I suppose a temporary thing. And the peculiar thing was when I got there I realised that it was partly an army camp. But I didn’t make the connection at that stage. It was only later that I sort of realised the connection between 297 Squadron and the army which I’ll tell you about later.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can tell me now whilst we’re talking about it.
HR: Well, I mean eventually when I got on the squadron we used to do quite a bit in the way of cross country trips and sometimes we used to take paratroops with us. And at other times we used to take gliders. So there’s the army connection coming in like sort of at the beginning.
CB: And what was the aircraft you were in at that time?
HR: Albemarle.
CB: That was — and you were bomb aimer and navigator.
HR: Well, I was trained as a, as a navigator and a bomb aimer which you see in the logbook. But there I tended to be more on the bomb aiming side because I spent quite a bit of the time map reading. And by that I mean we used to do a lot, an awful lot of what we called cross country’s. And we’d go off in a, in an aircraft with either troops to drop at a dropping zone or pulling a glider with troops aboard which was similar to a DZ. A dropping zone.
CB: Yes. So what were your early thoughts when you first arrived on squadron and were in aircraft?
HR: Well, to be quite shattered. Well, to be quite honest I was shattered because Stoney Cross was miles away from anywhere. It was about fifteen miles from Southampton and I think about ten from — I’m trying to think of the name of the other place in the other direction.
CB: Portsmouth.
HR: No. It was only just a smallish place. But I mean any place was was home for, from the camp, you know.
CB: So, you were quite a long way from home weren’t you really?
HR: Quite a lot. Well, I mean we were more or less just outside Southampton in effect. Which was a fair distance.
CB: Do you remember getting much leave to go home and see family?
HR: Well, yes. I suppose we had. We had quite satisfactory. I didn’t, didn’t concern — didn’t concern me much actually. I was courting at the time but I wasn’t married so it, I hadn’t got the claim to be getting home at every touch and turn sort of thing.
CB: So, was your girlfriend in Lincoln at the time?
HR: Sorry?
CB: Was your girlfriend in Lincoln at the time?
HR: In Lincoln. Yeah. She lived up at — on the Nettleham Road in those days. So —
CB: What about written correspondence? Letters. Were you a good letter writer?
HR: Oh, we had them. Just the same as everybody else really. We didn’t have any, any problem. But as I say we spent quite a lot of time in the air. In fact I had one of my pals he couldn’t stand the pressure and he had to give it up. Well, had to give it up. He was medically unfit to carry on so you can imagine that it was pretty hectic at that time. Well, that more or less carried on then right the way through until we got to the sort of D-Day.
CB: And what were conditions like at, on base?
HR: Well, they were Nissen huts. Nissen huts right out in the country.
CB: Was it cold in winter?
HR: No. I don’t think it was. I can’t ever remember it being sort of snowy. It was somewhere in the middle of the — is it the New Forest down there? Is it the [pause] You could tell it was a bit isolated.
CB: What about other nationalities who were there?
HR: We didn’t have any. They were all —
CB: All British.
HR: As far as I recall, apart from the Scots and Welsh and that sort of thing we didn’t have any foreign. Not that I’m aware. I can’t remember to be quite honest. I don’t even remember my own. My own crew. I mean I remember them basically but if you asked me to describe them or say what nationality they were I wouldn’t know.
CB: Ok.
[recording paused]
CB: So you went on a trip in to the village.
HR: Well, it was not a, not planned at all. It, it was just that I was so I suppose isolated at the time. It was fairly early on. I thought oh damn it. I’m going to have a walk down to the village [laughs] or to a village. I wasn’t sure quite where. So, I walked down this, the camp road and got to the main road at the bottom and before I’d done a lot of map reading I turned left. I walked about, oh a mile along that road. Nothing happened. I thought I’ll turn around and go back. So I went back. I thought well I’ll go on. A bit further on. And that’s when I went to Ringwood. And that was when I, I didn’t actually buy the ring at that time but I spied the ground at that time.
CB: For your wedding ring.
HR: For my wedding ring. Not necessarily but I saw there was a jeweller there and so that was it. But that was the sort of isolation that I felt at that time.
CB: And did you choose your wife’s wedding ring from the same place?
HR: Sorry?
CB: Did you choose your wife’s wedding ring from the same place?
HR: I could have done. I don’t recall actually. I definitely remember doing this. But no I think she probably came with me when I, when I bought that because — well actually we didn’t get married until what, two years after I came out of the air force. So that would put us up to 1948. So, it was a bit early then. We’re talking now about, I suppose ’42. Something like that. ’42 ’43 when I was down there.
CB: Can you tell me something about the navigational aids that you used? Either in training or in flight.
HR: Yeah. Basically in my training I tended to do the normal. I can’t remember the technology now. The normal one where you had ordinary — had to do it all by maps and plotting and things like that. I mean these days they’ve got things. Not these days but later on we had things called Rebecca. Which was a type of homing signal. And of course there was what they called Gee. That was another one.
CB: I’ve heard of Gee.
HR: You’ve heard of Gee have you?
CB: Can you explain how it worked?
HR: It’s, oh don’t ask me how it works. No. No. I’m afraid that was a bit beyond me. I, because by that time I was more or less concentrating on the bomb aiming side of it. Other than the navigational map reading which was obviously necessary in these SOE cases.
CB: So, where did you go to after being down near Southampton?
HR: Stoney Cross. I’m a bit vague as to where I, where I was stationed other than I remember a station some time up in Yorkshire. I think it was Hutton Cranswick or, oh Linton on Ouse. Linton on Ouse was one that I was at. But that was later on. I can’t remember. I was also at Brize Norton for a while. But those tended to be later on. I think there must have been some earlier ones. I think there was one called Hutton Cranswick or something like that. That was up in Yorkshire.
[pause]
HR: But those all tended to be later on. I can’t think. I’ve been trying to think of what, what camps I was on but I think I was basically at Stoney Cross most of my early time. Unfortunately, my logbook doesn’t show it you see other than I could probably work it out by the trips we went on. Because I always put on the logbook the actual route that we were taking.
CB: So, how did you come to be involved with the SOE operations?
HR: Well, it must have been from the start. I wasn’t aware of it other than the fact as I say that we’d got army connections. That was the only thing that made it any different from these, these places up here. Of course the other thing is that whenever one went on an op you went on your own. I mean, you didn’t, you didn’t go up in a flurry like they do for the Bomber Command. You see they go up and there’s probably twelve aircraft go off at the same time. Well, we used to just sneak off at all sorts of different times.
CB: And how much notice would you get?
HR: We would know on the day we were going. They would tell us in the morning you see. And then probably we’d have some sort of a briefing in the afternoon. Wouldn’t be a great deal because obviously they wouldn’t know a great deal. They’d just say you go across the Channel and then when you get get there then you just find your way from there sort of thing. That’s how it used to work.
CB: And was most of this work done at night? When you were doing the drops.
HR: Oh it would all be at night. Yeah. There was no, well there were a few, a few day trips but they weren’t I remember one day trip we had to to Oslo. But that’s the only time I can ever remember that we went in the daylight.
CB: And I’ve read that it was often the drops, the night drops were often scheduled around the phases of the moon and so that you would have some light.
HR: Well it could. We had nothing else you see.
CB: Yeah.
HR: You see, you imagine when we, that the the practice was that one would take off from your ‘drome, go across the Channel at about what? Three hundred feet. Very low anyway. Before you got to the coast you’d start to climb to make sure that you were sufficiently high enough to get out of the range of the guns or whatever and then of course when you got the other side you had to drop. And the rest of it you see was at about what? Three hundred feet. Well, there’s nothing. You can see nothing at night at three hundred feet. I mean you can’t look for trains or bus stations or things like that you see. It’s a question of looking for places where there was, well forestries or woods. That was another darker sort of area you see that you would find on your maps and —
CB: So, it’s quite dangerous then isn’t it?
HR: Well it wasn’t, it wasn’t —
CB: Rather than obviously open spaces.
HR: Although we were lucky actually because whenever they gave you somewhere it was usually in a reasonably unbuilt, not built up area because obviously you see these people were having to come out to receive you as it were. So, you could only really go in the moonlight where you would get the moon, picking up or picked up by the water if there was any lakes or rivers. That was another thing. If you got on a river you were alright because you could follow it you see.
CB: And did the people on the ground use torchlight to help you?
HR: They did. They did but it was a slow sort of situation because obviously they were careful and so were we. So I mean when you got to what you thought was roughly where you should be you just had to look and see if there was any, any possible lights. I mean these lights were given at a certain signal to give which we would be informed of. They’d be saying, well they’d be flashing out whatever. The signal. And then at that point then you could start doing, offloading your containers or whatever you were taking.
CB: So, it would be a different signal each time. What sort of —
HR: Oh yes. It wasn’t general. No. It was just a—
CB: And what sort of a signal might it be? Was it based on Morse code signalling at all?
HR: Oh yeah.
CB: Yeah. So would it be a code word maybe?
HR: It could have been a code word. It could have been anything really as long as it was something that wasn’t easily sort of dis well not discernable but able to work it out quickly.
CB: Do you remember any of the signals that were —
HR: No. I don’t. No.
CB: Particularly given.
HR: Actually it used to be the job of the gunner to flash the signal but — or the navigator often did because I was, as I say I was busy trying to locate what we called the DZ. The dropping zone.
CB: And I imagine it was a mixture of dropping agents as well as sometimes supplies.
HR: Well, we didn’t have any agents dropping. They were, they were a completely different concern as far as we were concerned because obviously they used to fly from Tempsford on the north, Great North Road there. That was their, their headquarters.
CB: I understand.
HR: And they had their own squadron there actually. In fact if you look at this book they’ll tell you that 138 Squadron was, was their actual, the squadron that did all the —
CB: The agent drops.
HR: Taking the agents. Plus of course the Lysanders. They used to do a lot. You’ve seen these funny little Lysanders. Well, they used to do a lot of that sort of thing.
CB: I see. Yes. Yes, the —
HR: No. Ours was completely material. We used to drop containers which contained all sorts of things.
CB: Yes. The book you refer to is a book that both Harry and I both have called, “Forgotten Voices of the Secret War,” by Roderick Bailey. Which is about SOE operations. So, what sort of supplies would you be dropping?
HR: Well, frankly we wouldn’t know. I I don’t know anything that I dropped other than the fact that it was a container.
CB: What sort of size container was it? In feet for example.
HR: Well, it always liked a coffin but it was obviously bigger than a coffin. But that type of thing along. Well, have you seen them in these books? That’s the type of thing. And they had all sorts of things that —
CB: They must have been quite robust to have withstood being dropped from —
HR: Oh yeah.
CB: So high.
HR: Well, we used to drop about what three hundred or something like that you see. And it was on soft soil hopefully. If nobody was in the way.
CB: Would you have to go around for other drops or would you be able to —
HR: Oh no. It would be one drop and off. Oh yes it was, it was paraphernalia to do all. Get the aircraft in position and get it with the, with the wheels — well some. Most of the time they’d put the wheels down to give you more resistance and the flaps and all sorts making it as easy as they could. Comparatively so. So, of course as soon as you dropped them everything was brought up. Wheels up and the flaps up and we were off. But it was just one. One trip around.
CB: And would you typically fly with the same pilot and other aircrew?
HR: We had our own, we had our own crew. Yeah. The crew was, was more or less fixed. In fact I had one. I had one, one fella well you’ll see in the logbook for about half my period and then I had another one. Changed me over.
CB: Do you remember the names?
HR: Yeah. Shortman, Flight Lieutenant Shortman was the first one. And the other one was Millnoy.
CB: Mill —
HR: Flight Lieutenant.
CB: Millroy.
HR: Millnoy.
CB: And the aircraft?
HR: I only remember them because I’ve got them in my logbook you see.
CB: And what was the aircraft you were using for that?
HR: Albemarle for that one. I’ve got a photograph actually but you can’t see a great deal of it.
[recording paused]
CB: So, can you tell me about how you went around the country in the aircraft showing them to other RAF bases.
HR: Well, prior to the invasion we had the task of going around the different areas of particular defences that might be involved in any sort of attack. Either by the Germans or us going over there. And these aircraft were specifically being used. All the British and all the, the allied, all the allied aircraft were marked with this particular white marking on the fuselage. And we went to Linton on Ouse in Yorkshire. We went up to Turnhouse in Scotland. And I think we went to another place in, in Hutton Cranswick. I seem to remember that. That was up in Yorkshire. But operationally I don’t think we moved from Stoney Cross. I can’t ever remember, except moving to Brize Norton and that was specifically for the D-Day and Arnhem and the crossing of the Rhine. I think we went from Brize Norton for, for those. But in turn we went from Brize Norton to the one on the coast in, in Kent. Oh God, what’s the name of it now? Well known one. Right on the tip of the coast there.
CB: Not sure.
HR: Well, that was the one we actually went from for those three. On those three occasions.
CB: So tell me about D-Day.
HR: Not much to tell. No. We were unfortunate that we lost a glider. How —?
CB: Did that ditch in the Channel?
HR: Oh. We got over the coast. Oh we were virtually there. Well, sort of midway between the water and the, the battlefield as it were at that time. So we were within a matter of miles but it just disappeared. Unfortunately.
CB: Yes. Yes.
HR: I never heard anything about it but then naturally one wouldn’t.
CB: And Arnhem.
HR: Similar. Similar.
CB: Similar loss.
HR: But we didn’t get as far there. In fact, when you see the logbooks you’ll find that I think we did an hour and a half on D Day and an hour to Arnhem. Something like that.
CB: And the Rhine?
HR: And the — we crossed that alright. Yes. We did that. Five hour journey. Five. Five hours seventy five I think it was. Something like that.
CB: And that, was that dropping supplies?
HR: That was taking, that was taking troops. We took gliders. Those were glider. Glider towings. So we lost the glider which was the annoying part because we don’t know what happened to the men. But what happened? I’m not suggesting anything.
CB: That indicates the degree of difficulty of the actual role.
HR: I mean it could have been something that broke. Could be a, you know sort of the rope. The rope. The wire between plane and glider broke. Came undone. No idea.
CB: So how many troops would fit in a glider typically?
HR: Oh not a lot. About ten to twenty I should think. Something like that. They’d be just like, just like, you know what an aircraft looks like inside. You know, forget all about the driver and his sort of area and I mean you’ve got the whole of that because there wouldn’t be anybody there. There would be a pilot. A couple of pilots you see with a glider pilot with a glider. And they would take over you see once the thing was released. But they’d just be pilot on either side. Probably about, there might be about seven or eight on either side of the fuselage. It depends on the size because you had, you had two types of glider at that time. We had the Hamilcar which was the big one. And then we had the smaller one which was the [pause] oh my God what did they call that?
CB: I’ve heard of Horsa gliders. I’ve heard of Horsa gliders.
HR: That’s right. Horsa. Yeah. Well, they were the smaller ones. But the bigger one was the [pause] was the other one.
CB: Do you know if that’s something that men would volunteer for? To go in a glider. Or would they be ordered.
HR: It would be part of their training. Part of their duty. I mean they didn’t mind which way they went as long as they went. These lads. They were [laughs] as we call it muck and nettles [laughs]
CB: And I imagine there’s a lot of risks in safely landing a glider as well.
HR: Well, providing the, the area is right to land there shouldn’t be any difficulty because after all you take them to what they called the dropping zone and that’s, that’s perfectly clear. The difficulty is that if it gets in to rough territory then it gets difficult because I mean there’s no engine or anything like that to help them land. So it was just a question of going into the ground really. Trying to get a long clear run.
CB: And what sort of height would you be at?
HR: Oh not very high. When we were towing them we’d only be about fifteen hundred or something like that.
CB: And the Rhine operation was a more successful one.
HR: I don’t know much about that because we went straight there and straight back. I’ve got no idea what happened there.
CB: Was that lots of gliders went at the same time on that one?
HR: Would have been. Yeah. Yeah. It would have been quite a sight I would think from the ground.
CB: What sort of number?
HR: Hmmn?
CB: What sort of number?
HR: I honestly don’t know. I honestly don’t know because obviously it’s something that we would look upon it as a normal sort of process I suppose but —
[recording paused]
CB: So are there any other particular events or moments that you recall for any reason? Either humorous or particularly dangerous or near misses.
HR: I can’t think of any near misses. I mean the procedure was — on an ordinary operation the procedure was quite simple. We, we would have a briefing. But again unlike Bomber Command we went in singles. We didn’t, we didn’t go in, in loads. And then the idea would be flying sort of very low over the water and climb up to keep out of the way of ack ack stuff. And then immediately you got over there, drop and then it would be a question of map reading yourself to wherever you were going.
CB: I imagine you were kept fairly busy during —
HR: Well, I didn’t do anything other than map read the whole time that I was once I got to the coast that was it. I mean I was immediately confined to the nose and that was it. And I would sort of help the navigator if he was in any sort of trouble. If he sort of said, ‘Can you, can you see anything down there?’ And it would be a question then yes or no. And then we would be praying that somebody would be coming out to meet us. We would aim to get to a particular place. We’d know where it was. We’d get what they — a map reading reference. And we’d, they’d be aiming for that. They’d have picked a course to get there. And then it’s a question of looking. Trying to see something as you went past.
CB: Did you typically go to France?
HR: Oh yes. Yes. I had I think about three journeys there from what I can recall.
CB: Where else did you go other than France?
HR: Oslo.
CB: You mentioned Oslo.
HR: Just those four places because my ops actually only totalled, I think about ten. Something like that. And that included some of these aborted ones. So I didn’t have a great deal of experience on that.
CB: What sort of things were you able to see from the air that you could use as landmarks other than obviously rivers and train lines?
HR: Well, just rivers really. And, and trees. The forests or parks or anything that gave a darker sort of appearance from I mean because you’ve got to remember you were whizzing along at about three hundred miles an hour. Two hundred and fifty. That sort of speed. So you didn’t have a lot of time to see anything. But I mean you just set, set course from a particular point and then that was it. Well, then once you got to what you thought was a sort of vicinity of where you wanted to be it would be all eyes out trying to find this lamp that you’re supposed to be looking for. And then of course once the lamp was sighted then you would do a couple of circuits probably just to make sure that it wasn’t somebody just going to see the cows or something like that. Just to see that they were the right sort of people. And, and then it, once you got agreement I mean there would be signalling between us and the ground. Once you got communication as it were then it would be as I say preparing the aircraft to make the drop. You’d have to find out which way the wind was coming. Obviously to be going into the wind to drop it. To, you know, make it that much easier. And once they, once the people on the ground started to collect they’d make a line for you. And the idea would be to drop the containers on that line of lights. And if everything went ok well then it would be a question of putting the aircraft back into flying mode and off.
CB: And over the time you probably flew in a lot of aircraft. A lot of different aircraft as part of your training and operations. Which was the first aircraft you ever went in?
HR: I should think it was probably when I was flying pilot. Tiger Moth. And then a Magister. And then I started on the, the other navigational ones and they were things like Oxford. Oh I’ve got a list of them somewhere. I don’t know whether I can —
[recording paused]
CB: So you flew in a lot of different aircraft and you have a list there of all the aircraft you flew in.
HR: I have. Well, prior to re-mustering I was on a pilot’s course and I flew then in Tiger Moths and Magisters. And then when I was removed [laughs]
CB: Relocated.
HR: I was scrubbed [laughs] and I went navigator/bomb aimer and I flew in Albemarle, Halifax, Wellington, Stirling, Whitley. Or as part of my training on, at navigation school I was in Ansons and Oxfords. I’ve just turned up a little note here. Operations. All I’ve done with this is that I’ve made a note of the time. The duration. And there’s one, two, three, four, five, six. There seems to be six of these that we’ve been talking about. These special deliveries. And then there’s one to Norway. I’ve said that. I don’t know what happened to that. I don’t remember very much of it. It was six hours anyway. And then I’ve got D-Day an hour. Then there was a trip when we did forty minutes. The aircraft was defective. And then there was one. The Arnhem one which was another hour. And the Rhine crossing — 5.25. So that, that was the operations.
CB: That’s a lot of different aircraft. Do you remember how, how different they seemed from each other? Obviously there’s a big difference between a Tiger Moth and a Halifax for example, isn’t there? What were they like to fly in? The different aircraft.
HR: I don’t think there was much difference frankly. Other than the fact that the, as I say some of them were faster than others and some were more defensive then others. More. Not that we ever were attacked. Although the funny thing was, I’ll tell you this, one of my pilots — are we on?
CB: We are.
HR: One of my pilots had a thing with his friend who was another of the pilots of the squadron of who could be attacked the most on these trips. And they used to have an examination when they returned to base to see whether there were any bullet holes anywhere. But that’s, that’s the sort of thing that you get. But that was my first pilot. Shortman. Flight Lieutenant Shortman. But the other one I didn’t do so well with him. He was the one that did all my failings.
CB: Did you have any lucky mascots that you took with you?
HR: No.
CB: I know some people did, didn’t they?
HR: Oh I’m sure they did. No. I’m afraid I was very fatalistic about it, you know. If it happens it happens.
CB: I was going to ask you if you were frightened. Or thought about it.
HR: No. I don’t think — I think the only time I felt a bit scared was as I say when we went to Norway it was — I was going to say a new country and didn’t quite know what might, might happen. And I got a feeling that there was other planes in the sky at the same time as us which I hadn’t had before. And I was a bit, wasn’t too happy then. I was pleased when we came away. Because we’d done an awful, we’d done six hours, you see which was about another two hours on top of our normal trip. But no. No. It’s just one of those things really I suppose.
CB: Did you have any particular rituals or habits or things you did?
HR: No. No.
CB: Do you remember others having those things?
HR: I can’t say that I do.
CB: And then the war came to an end.
HR: Yeah. Well, of course when the war came to an end it was, as far as I was concerned it was the end of the, of my career in the air force. Although I could have stayed on. For a time anyway. But of course it wasn’t. I already had a job. I’d got a job with the Health Service in those days.
CB: Did they keep your job for you, after the war for you?
HR: Oh yes. I was told that when I came back it would be there. So I came back and of course the pending wedding at that time of course because we got married in ’48. So, it was only sort of two years later. And so I, I decided that that was, that was the end. And I think that’s the end of my story.
CB: And what was your wife’s name?
HR: Vera.
CB: And then you remained in Lincoln ever since.
HR: Oh no. No. I’ve, when I, when I started up sort of back at hospital there I spent — well I was forty four years in the National Health Service. Or rather that and its predecessor. And I had a, funny thing I was going to show you this Marion.
[recording paused]
HR: Yes.
CB: So, you went back in to the Civil Service and you were in St Albans.
HR: I did. And I spent a total of forty four years in the National Health Service and the prior service. And eventually came back to, to Lincoln. And that’s really the story of my wartime I suppose.
CB: Was it usual for people’s jobs to be kept for them until after the end of the war?
HR: Well, mine was because I specifically, specifically asked whether it would be. And when I was told I obviously took advantage of it. But had they said no, well then I would probably have stayed on in the air force. For a time anyway. Because I’d got up to warrant officer by then you see. So it was far as I could, I could get without going in for a commission. Which I probably would have gone in for, you know. If I’d stayed in.
CB: Was that something that the NHS typically did was to hold everybody’s jobs for them or was there only certain jobs.
HR: I suppose. I suppose it was actually.
CB: What about people in other lines of work? Were they, did their employers keep their jobs for them?
HR: Oh I don’t know, that I can’t, that I can’t. I wouldn’t like to say.
CB: And are you in contact with any other people that you served with?
HR: No.
CB: Or part of any of the RAF Associations?
HR: No. Funnily enough after, well at the Spire when they had that function on the, in January that Marion was talking about I met somebody from [pause] I think it was somewhere sort of Northampton or somewhere like that. He had something to do with a group of people called — I can’t think what they called them now. I’ve got a letter from them. They want me to go and join them at some function [pause] I think its October.
[recording paused]
CB: So, is there anything else can you think of that you would like to talk about?
HR: I don’t think so. I think you’ve got a — we seemed to have spent quite a long time and I think you’ve got something to write about even if it’s, doesn’t get to the top of the class. It’ll be something to include in your list.
CB: Well, thank you very much for your time Harry. It’s been an absolute pleasure to meet with you and it’s been very very interesting. Your memories. And in particular because they are slightly different from other interviews and oral histories that have been collected because your role was a specialised role. And in that way was slightly different from others that we have interviewed. So thank you ever so much for your time.
HR: It’s been a pleasure.
CB: You’re welcome.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Harold James Richards
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cathy Brearley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ARichardsHJ180219, PRichardsHJ1807
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:00:49 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Great Britain
Norway
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe--Bulawayo
Description
An account of the resource
Harold Richards from Lincoln was working in the health industry before he volunteered for the RAF. After trying to be a pilot he trained as an observer. He was posted to 297 Squadron at Stoney Cross where he and his crew dropped supplies to the Special Operations Executive and Resistance in occupied France and Norway. They then took part in glider towing during D-Day, Arnhem and the crossing of the Rhine. Harold flew in a number of different aircraft including Albemarle, Halifax, Wellington, Stirling, Whitley, Anson and Oxford. After operations one of his pilots used to compare bullet holes in the aircraft with his pilot friend as a competition.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
297 Squadron
aircrew
Albemarle
Anson
coping mechanism
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
observer
Oxford
RAF Stoney Cross
rivalry
Special Operations Executive
Stirling
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Thomas, John Henry
J H Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
Seven items. Collection concerns John Henry Thomas (b. 1923, 424515 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a pilot with 102 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, memoirs of his service and other events and a painting.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Thomas and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Thomas, JH
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HANDLEY PAGE HALIFAX
The Handley Page Halifax was the predecessor of the famous Avro Lancaster bomber. These two four-engined bombers composed the majority of the Main Force of Bomber Command over the last three years of the war. Just as the Manchester became the Lancaster so HP56 a twin-engined bomber to be fitted with Rolls Royce Vulture engines was converted to a four-engined aircraft fitted with Rolls Royce Merlin [deleted] Merlin [/deleted] engines and became HP57. It was test flown on 25 October 1939. Testing at Boscombe Down reported an insuffiency [sic] in rudder control but this was not rectified until the Mark 2, Series 1a went into production in August 1943. The first operational sortie was the bombing of Le Havre docks on 10 March 1941. On the return flight over England one of the aircraft was shot down by an RAF nightfighter. The enemy was’nt [sic] the only hazard. The Merlin engines initially were 1130hp but successive model changes saw power increased to 1220hp in January 1942, to 1390hp and finally to 1480hp in the August 1943 production. While the engine changes were being made other modifications were also taking place. In August 1942 the front turret was removed and replaced by the Tollerton nose and the dorsal turret became a Boulton and Paull four gun unit. At one stage this turret was also eliminated and then reinstated. As previously stated in the August 1943 production the rudders were changed to the much more efficient D shape and the Tollerton nose was replaced by a perspex rounded profile which remained till production ceased after hostilities ended. Early models had three bladed constant speed wooden airscrews, later replaced by Rotol metal ones.
[page break]
In September 1943 production of the Mark3 commenced it entered service in December 1943. This model fitted with 1675 hp Bristol Hercules aircooled radial engines created the Halifax crews had hoped for, it had a fast rate of climb and its operational ceiling was 24,000 feet. Initially some units came with rounded wingtips which later became the norm. Losses declined and more crews completed their tours. The Mark 4 was a non-production design using turbo-charged power plants {One wonders why this was not proceeded with?}
The next model the Mark 6 was the pinnacle of Halifax perfecting, as the installation of Bristol Hercules 100 engines producing 1800 hp gave the aircraft an initial rate of climb of 1650 feet/min. a very high cruising speed and a maximum speed of 312mph making it second only to the B-29 in this regard. The extra power and performance was obtained by the use of Claudel-Hobson injectors instead of the standard carburettion [sic].
The Mark 8 version was a transport andtthe[sic] Mark 9 was a paratroop carrier. Halifaxes served in Bomber Command, Coastal Command, Mediterranean Theatre, Glider towing {Horsa and Hamilcar} Special operations and ferrying servicemen back from the Far East Theatre.
6178 Halifaxes were built of which 6162 entered service and 1833 were lost
The following were the types and numbers in service:
October 1940 to October 1941 .... Mark 1, Series 1, 2, 3...84
September 1941 to July 1943 .... Mark 2, Series 1, 1a.. 1873
Mark 5, Series 1, 1a... 1014
September 1943 to March 1945 ... Mark 3 ............... 2091
July 1944 ... to November 1945 Mark 6 ................ 438
January 1944 to November 1945 Mark 7 ................. 417
March 1945 to November 1945 Mark 8 ................. 100
October 1945 to October 1946 Mark 9 ................. 145
Between 1941 and 1945 Halifaxes flew 80,000 sorties and dropped 227,000 tons
[page break]
of bombs. Many of us owe our lives to the sturdiness and reliability of this aircraft particularly Mark 3 and 6.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Handley Page Halifax
Description
An account of the resource
Describes the introduction of Halifax into service with associated problems. Mentions first operations to Le Havre. Goes on to describe engine and gun turret upgrades as well as other modifications. Continues with introduction of Mk 3. and Mk 6 followed my Mk 8 and 9. Lists marks of Halifax and service dates as well as some operational statistics and notes roles it was used for.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939-10-25
1943-08
1943-03-10
1942-01
1942-08
1943-09
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Wiltshire
France
France--Le Havre
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
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Three page printed document
Identifier
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MThomasJH424515-180122-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Halifax Mk 5
Halifax Mk 7
Hamilcar
Horsa
RAF Boscombe Down
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association
Description
An account of the resource
97 items. The collection concerns Royal Air Force ex-Prisoner of War Association and contains items including drawings by the artist Ley Kenyon.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Robert Ankerson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
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2018-01-29
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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RAF ex POW As Collection
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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The Fantastic Elsham Wolds Story
Description
An account of the resource
A story of how five or six Lancasters were buried in a crater at Elsham Wolds.
Creator
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Peter Cottam
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Scunthorpe
Australia
England--Walthamstow
England--Leeds
England--Barnsley (South Yorkshire)
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Format
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Four printed sheets
Identifier
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MAnkersonR[Ser#-DoB]-180129-290001, MAnkersonR[Ser#-DoB]-180129-290002, MAnkersonR[Ser#-DoB]-180129-290003, MAnkersonR[Ser#-DoB]-180129-290004
Conforms To
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Pending text-based transcription
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Halifax
Hamilcar
Lancaster
RAF Elsham Wolds
Tallboy
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2255/40602/ADaviesPO221105-AV.2.mp3
24c21d41f52c2fb363f1a02d61a5a2d5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Davies, Peter Offord
P O Davies
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Captain Peter Orfford Davies (b. 1922). He served with a Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment of the Royal Artillery at various RAF stations. He later retrained as a glider pilot and flew during the Rhine Crossing.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2022-11-06
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Davies, PO
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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TO: Good morning, good afternoon or good evening whatever the case may be. My name is Thomas Ozel and the gentleman we’re interviewing is Mr Peter Davies and we’re recording this interview on the 5th of November 2022. So, could you tell me a bit about where you were born, please?
PO: My home town is Coventry. The city of Coventry in Warwickshire. I was born in a company house. My father worked for a company and we lived on the company’s estate. I went to a normal sort of school. I was never brilliant as a student. I failed my Eleven Plus but I did manage to get through an art examination and I went to the city’s Art College for two years prior to joining the forces at sixteen.
TO: And when you were growing up were you interested in the Army?
PO: No. Not at all. I mean okay you know we were children. All our fathers invariably of course had been in the First World War and there were First World War relics knocking about. I mean in a garden, one of the back gardens on the company estate one person had the fuselage of an aircraft. Steel helmets were commonplace. We used to fight battles and things like that but as for a military my first brush I suppose with the military would have been I was taken by an aunt of mine who lived in South London and we went to Woolwich on a Sunday morning and on the Parade Ground there there were the horses and all the troops lined up and one thing and another. But I can’t honestly say that the military appealed to me at that time. I suppose like most children I didn’t know really what I wanted to do and I lived in a fantasy world. It really, yeah.
TO: And was your father in the First World War?
PO: Oh, yes. My father was. My father actually joined the volunteers before the Territorial Army was formed before the First World War and he served. He was in the Royal Army Medical Corps in actual fact and he served throughout the war you know. I think he came out of the forces in 1919. But after that there was no [pause] nothing. I mean he didn’t talk a lot about it. He had, you know a normal traumatic experience like most people in the First World War which was absolute carnage you know. I mean he talked about tying people to tree stumps to stop them harming themselves and that sort of thing. You know, it really was a terrible war that the First World War. Oh yes. The Second World War was nothing like the first. Although having said that before the war we were all our training because I joined the Army in ’38 it was second, it was First World War based. You know, we were digging trenches and doing things which were ludicrous really for the age that we were in at that time. There we are.
TO: And when you were at school were you taught about the First World War?
PO: No. No. All that I know is one of my masters at school was, he had been in the forces and I I quite admired him but I mean absolute childish way, you know. He’d been in. He’d been in the war and he was a big man and he was, he was a kind guy and as such I took to him and, yeah. But no. Really the First World War wasn’t talked about. I think it was too raw really.
TO: And were you taught any other military history though?
PO: The usual thing about the Romans and stuff like that but it, it went over our heads you know. It, it was, it was just, I mean my schooling, a lot of my schooling was learned by rote. There was no discussions and things like that. It was this is it and that’s it. You absorb it or you don’t sort of thing, you know. I mean the funny thing is that, you know sort of you look back and you think gosh, you know what a load of rubbish we were being taught at times. I mean the Empire was the great thing you know. We were great believers that Britain was the greatest country on earth and that we were kind to all these people who we ruled over and in actual fact of course we were anything but. We were taskmasters and slave masters. Yeah. Oh gosh, yes. No. Funny old life. Funny old life. Looking back you realise what. what was true and what isn’t true and I don’t know. Life just goes on.
TO: And were you interested in aircraft at all?
PO: We were. In Coventry there was a company called Armstrong Whitworth and we had an aerodrome called Bagington which is now Coventry. I don’t know what they call it now. But there, from there private aircraft flew and when I say private aircraft we used to get lots of, well no, not lots but an Autogyro or helicopter come over and we used to shout to them sort of thing as children you know. And then the first time I flew Alan Cobham’s Air Circus came to town and I emptied my money box and paid five shillings for a flight. So I was, my first flight would be, I’d be ten maybe. So that was my first flight. Okay. Looking back I suppose I sort of boasted about I’d flown as it were because that was unusual and five shillings was a hell of a lot of money in those days. It was to me anyhow. But that was the first time I flew. But after that I can’t say I hankered to fly, you know. It wasn’t, it didn’t grab me as such.
TO: And what do you remember from being in the air?
PO: The thing that I remember actually was that we, the aircraft we flew in would be, we’d got about eight seats in and there were just cane chairs bolted to the floor sort of thing you know and you just got in and I sat on the what I now know as the starboard side. But, and as we flew around the city we banked and the people on the port side could look down at the town and the city and I was on, all I was looking at was sky. So I did get up to have a look and I got screamed at by two old ladies who said I’d turn the plane upside down and made me sit down again. So it was rather disappointing in some ways. But that’s the first time I flew but after that I can’t say I hankered to fly as such you know. I mean we’re talking in the days of the R100 and the R101 airships which of course the R101 I think it was flew over our school one day. That was, that was quite something to see this leviathan of the air floating by almost silently as it were you know. I mean it really was ginormous. Yeah. Oh yeah. But no, flying I can’t say particularly was to the fore of my thinking as a child.
TO: And did you hear about when the R1, was it the R101 had crashed?
PO: Oh gosh, yeah. That, that crashed at Beauvais in France. Yes, oh yes. A friend of ours was an artist and he actually did a painting of it which he sent off to London hoping it would be included in an exhibition. It didn’t make it but it still went to London this. But I remember this painting of the R101 in its crashed state as it were. Oh yeah. Gosh. Yeah. A long time ago that. Everything is a long time ago with me.
TO: Do you remember what kind of plane you were in on your first flight?
PO: All that I know it was a biplane. I mean the, the Air Circus that came had various I presume, it is a presumption that they were Bristol fighters and stuff like that. Maybe the odd Fokker. I don’t remember. I mean all that I know is that it was magnificent. These guys flying around and throwing the things about but you know. It was. It was just exciting. Yeah. But as for type. No. No. The first type I remember is I used to scrounge flights in Whitley bombers and in Wellington aircraft on night flying tests and stuff like this. Although I was in the Army I was, at the time I was stationed on RAF airfields and you know I used to sneak off and go and scrounge flights. Why I did it I don’t know. It was I suppose it was, A it was something different and B, I was fed up anyhow. But yeah, but I can’t say it ever really grabbed me as such. It wasn’t the apogee of my sort of, it wasn’t that important to me. I did it and that was just fun. God knows what would have happened if we’d of crashed because everybody else would have been on the, on the documentation but my, my remains would be a mystery to somebody or other. Oh yeah. Because regularly these aircraft regularly came to the ground in the wrong place. Oh yes. Yeah. I suppose looking back it was dicey but you know, so what?
TO: And when you were, how was it you arranged with the crew to be aboard these bombers?
PO: Sorry?
TO: How, how did you arrange with the crew for them to allow you on the bombers?
PO: Well, I would just go up and say, ‘Hey,’ you know. I was sort of, ‘Could I have a flight with you?’ And so I suppose I did get rejected on occasions and others they said, ‘Yeah. Go on. Get in.’ Sort of. It was I mean it was just so casual. I mean it really was casual but it was, it was good. It was good. Yeah. Yeah, the old Whitley bomber. Gosh. Made in Coventry and there I am flying in the damned thing. Yeah. Oh, it was good. Yeah. That was my first sort of well that was my first war time flying shall I say. Oh yeah.
TO: And can you tell me about when you joined the Army?
PO: I, well I joined the Army. I originally joined the [pause] the county Infantry Regiment, the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and when the, we’d just come back actually from annual camp when the war broke out and my battalion went to France. But I was at that time I’d just become a private. I had been a boy soldier up until my birthday, my seventeenth birthday. So at seventeen I became a private but I was still considered too young to go to France so I got put into another battalion and we were doing guarding vulnerable points and things all over the UK. And then that battalion I don’t know quite why but I then got transferred into the Royal Artillery and so I became a gunner and that was considered by the War Office as my parent regiment. God knows why because my parent regiment really was the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. But I, we guarded airfields and power stations and stuff like this. I had twelve guys. I mean I became an NCO in promotion sort of thing and I just had twelve or fourteen guys and a forty millimetre Bofors gun. I was part of the defence of various radar stations and stuff like that from the north of Scotland down to the south of Devon. And one day I saw a thing on Orders about the Army Air Corps and I think the real come on as far as I was concerned was there was flying pay on top of my meagre normal salary as it were as a, as a bombardier which is equal to a corporal. And so I applied to join the Army Air Corps. I went to London and did my aircrew medical and all the educational stuff and whatnot which I duly passed and found myself on Salisbury Plain as part of the Army Air Corps which it was then. My cap badge is an Army Air Corps cap badge. But I was in the glider pilot regiment and so that was the beginning of my sort of wartime flying shall I say such as it was. My wartime flying. I mean I went to EFTS of course and learned to fly powered aircraft first because they’re easier to fly than a glider which flies like a brick and then eventually I found myself in a squadron. We had, they were Horsas. The, you know the one everybody thinks was the wartime glider and then I found myself posted or attached to the 9th US Air Force on liaison work and I was flying, flying in Dakotas and whatnot all over the country one way and another. And then after Arnhem when we lost so many people I went back to squadron and I found myself flying Hamilcars which we had one squadron, C Squadron which was a heavy lift squadron and so I flew a Hamilcar glider. And then when the war finished we found ourselves at Fairford and we were converting on to the American Waco CG-4As to go to the Far East. Then lo and behold they dropped the atomic bomb and we all cheered and knew we were going to live as it were. But it was a very free and easy life in so many ways. Highly disciplined I can tell you but boy it was, it was good. Yeah. We were a happy lot, you know. The Army you know was just sort of an average sort of guy’s experience I suppose. I mean [laughs] and that’s how it went. I’m sorry. It’s not very interesting really is it you know? Yeah.
TO: And in the late 1930s did you hear about Hitler in the papers?
PO: Oh yeah. I I remember as a child hearing my father talking to somebody who said that they thought that war was inevitable. I know my father before the war he was in the ARP. He joined the ARP and he used to go once a week for training as it were and he became an ARP warden. But that’s the only, I mean it meant nothing to us as children you know. That was life I suppose like life out there today is you know. I mean the kids out there today you know they’re all nipping around with their I-pads and one thing and another and their thumbs are going like nobody’s business on their phones. It’s all, all strange to me but it’s their world and that was our world, you know. We were, we were very innocent really. I mean we relied entirely on really as much as anything on newspapers for information whether it was slanted one way and another by the government or political parties just that was it that was life. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And do you remember the Munich Agreement?
PO: Oh yes. I remember Chamberlain coming back and waving his bit, piece of paper about saying, ‘Peace in our time.’ I mean in 1938 there were I remember them digging trenches and covering them over and making, you know air raid shelters of sorts. I mean in my home town I remember them building a huge shadow factory for producing you know, well aircraft and bits you know sort of thing. It was everything was pointing towards war but I mean it sounds silly but that was just how it was. You know. We were very subservient I think looking back. We didn’t question as the young people today would question the authorities shall I say. Oh yeah. Yeah. As I say to me it’s just how it went.
TO: And what do you think of Chamberlain?
PO: Well really, I looking back I think in some ways he was weak but you know I suppose he did, with the aid of the civil servants who really run this country he did the best he could do to try and placate Hitler and you know keep a peaceful world as it were because the alternative was pretty grim as it turned out. Yeah. He did his best and failed I suppose in some. Well, no. Perhaps he didn’t fail. I don’t know. I really have no great opinion of him one way or another. You know, as I say I just roll over and accept it.[laughs]
TO: And what do you think of Churchill?
PO: The right man at the right time. He could have been full of bluster and everything else but he he came on to the scene. I mean when you look at Churchill’s background I mean gosh there’s a man who changed sides so often one way and another. He was very astute in that respect but as a wartime leader I think he appealed to the populace, the general populace and you know he really sort of put a bit of fire into the belly of the nation and said you know this is it. We’re going to beat these guys and we all fell in line behind him and did what we did. Oh yeah. He was okay. I just wish he hadn’t have put his name forward and got beaten at an election. He should have left when he was at the top of the heap sort of thing. But yeah, I mean some of the things that have come out since I don’t know. They don’t do him any service I think but he was, he was a man of the time without doubt. Oh yeah.
TO: And can you remember the day the war started?
PO: Oh yes. I was blancoing my equipment at the time and polishing my brasses [laughs] yes. I remember that. The sort of, it was I think it was 11 o’clock in the morning on a, I think it was a Sunday morning. I think it was a Sunday morning and yeah I was actually blancoing my equipment. So yeah I remember that but again there was no great panic or anything. It was just, ‘Right. This is it.’ You know, sort of thing. Because we honestly thought when we came back from camp that you know war was inevitable. That all the, all the signs were there you know. You didn’t have to read the runes to a great degree to realise that you know we were going to fight these guys who wouldn’t behave themselves so to speak. Yeah. Oh yes. I remember that Sunday well and truly. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And were you in the Army already when the Munich Agreement —
PO: Yes.
TO: Happened?
PO: Yeah. The Munich Agreement.
TO: Yeah. When the Munich Agreement was signed were you already in the Army then?
PO: I joined the Army in October 1938. Now, when the Munich Agreement was signed I don’t know.
TO: Around about that time I think.
PO: Yeah. It was. It must have been fairly close. A month either way. September or November so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes. But you know it [pause] we just obeyed the rules. I mean I lived in a regimented sort of environment and did as I was told and kept my nose clean. Or did my best to keep my nose clean. Yeah.
TO: And do you remember was the Army making preparations for war when you joined?
PO: Our training basically was for the First World War. Okay, I mean when I think about it they said aircraft would be doing reconnaissance flights and attacking us and things like this and that we were to sort of budge together as if we were shrubbery sort of thing. But what a load of rubbish, you know [laughs] The thing to do as if you were being attacked from the air is to scatter. You stand more chance of living instead of being in one lump as it were. Oh yeah. I mean digging trenches and stuff like that okay they have their place. And scrapes and fox holes and stuff like this you know became the thing but you know looking back we were being taught to fight the last, the First World War and, you know it didn’t work out. I mean when you think of the speed of the Blitzkrieg across France I mean, and Dunkirk I mean we really got our backsides kicked. Well and truly. We weren’t, we weren’t really ready for war I don’t think. I mean okay everybody knew it was coming but nobody sort of we’re not I don’t think as a nation we’re aggressive in that sort of way or we get that worked up about things. I think we, we tend to sort of be very resilient to how things are and just accept them. I could be wrong of course. Well and truly wrong. I so often am.
TO: And did you do any training with tanks?
PO: No. Oh no. Good gracious me. No. We, in my battalion we had two Bren gun carriers. That was our armour. Yeah. That was it. I mean we were chuffed to billy-o when we got two, two Bren carriers. Things with tracks on you know. Oh yeah. This was the latest thing. But yeah, pathetic when you think about it. No. No. Tanks were, well of course the cavalry regiments turned over to tanks and became the Royal Tank Corps or the Armoured Corps but we didn’t see any signs of them. Oh no. Very sort of us and them in a way I suppose. Yeah. There was no sort of cooperation in any. We were in it and they were that and never the twain shall meet sort of thing. No. Looking back I mean what a different world we live in today militarily. Yeah. No. No. Funny old life. As I say it was good. I mean it suited me and you know I was happy and I had an easy war really and here I am an old man.
TO: And did you do, did the Army do any training with aircraft at all?
PO: No. No. None whatsoever. Not prewar. No way. Oh gosh no. Whether the budget wouldn’t allow it or what I don’t know. It was as I say the thinking of the War Office as it would be I suppose and the politicians didn’t sort of, I don’t know. I mean you know you’ve got to remember I was a teenager and as such you know I was malleable and obedient and did what I was told and didn’t do an awful lot of thinking I suppose. We were living day to day and you know today is the important day and tomorrow will look after itself sort of thing. Oh yeah. No.
TO: And what was the process for you joining the Army when you were sixteen?
PO: I saw an advert and I thought hey that’s great. And that was it. Yeah. That just fired me. I thought that sounds good. So, you know as simple simple as that. I remember I had a piece of paper that on it said that the Army won’t make you rich in monetary terms but in terms of friendships and whatnot you’ll be one of the richest people going. And it’s true. It’s true. The Forces, the pay is, it’s different today but in my day I mean I started out on what was it? Eight shillings a week I think it was, you know. But the friendships I’ve got I mean as I say when the turn out that I got on my hundredth birthday from the Army Air Corps really makes you realise that you know you belong to a big family. Yeah. Oh yes.
TO: And did the Army know you were under sixteen?
PO: Oh yes. I had to get permission from my parents to, to join at sixteen. I couldn’t just walk in and say to a recruiting office and say I wanted to join. I had to go home with a piece of paper to get my parent’s permission to join at sixteen as a boy soldier. Yeah. Oh yes. My, my mum I don’t think it was, in retrospect I don’t think she was very happy about it but my father eventually signed my papers for me. So you know but it, I as I say I couldn’t just walk in to a recruiting office and say, ‘I want to join.’ And they say, ‘Right. Welcome. Here’s a shilling. You’re now a member of the Armed Forces.’ Sort of thing. Oh no.
TO: And were you the youngest soldier who was there when you joined?
PO: I would say I was. Yeah. Yeah. I was. I don’t remember any other boy soldiers. I mean I just got thrown into C-Company and was, that was it. I became a runner. In other words, I became a guy who sort of was at the beck and call of the headquarters office sort of thing. Take this message here. Take that message there. Do this. Do that. That was my life originally until such time as when the war broke out of course things changed then. Suddenly as I say I was by then I was a private anyhow. I mean I went on to fourteen shillings a week then. But my life as a boy soldier was very much I mean there was no I wasn’t allowed into the licensed bar shall I say. When we were in camp for example down in Arundel just before the war there was what then knew as a dry canteen and a wet canteen. The wet canteen they sold beer and spirits and stuff. I wasn’t allowed in there. I could drink tea and cocoa or coffee but I couldn’t drink ale as it were. I couldn’t gamble whereas all the others were gambling like billy-o on housey housey and what’s known as bingo today and or poker and all these games they were playing for money. Oh no. But then I hadn’t got any money so [laughs]
TO: How did the other soldiers treat you with you being younger?
PO: Just, just the same as anybody else. Just the same. They obviously in retrospect I mean I’ve written about it but in retrospect I mean when we went to camp for example there were I don’t know how many of us in, in a bell tent. You know a pointed tent with a pole in the middle and you slept with your feet to the pole and there were panels in the making of the bell tent and you got a panel and a half or two panels if you were lucky depending how many were in the tent. But the old soldiers of course got furthest away from the, from the opening of the tent but muggins here [laughs] where was his bedspace? Right where the opening was. So anybody coming in at night or a lot would put their feet on me or if it rained I was the one who was going to get wet sort of thing. But I don’t know. They just treated me as, maybe they treated me [pause] I don’t know. I mean, they were a rough tough old lot. They weren’t, they weren’t sort of how can I put it, parental in any way shape or form or [pause] I don’t think they made any sort of difference to them. I was just another squaddie. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you know I used to get into all sorts of mischief one way and another and they’d say, ‘Oh it’s PO.’ Because my initials were PO and they’d say, ‘It’s young PO’s done that.’ And I, you know I’d get away with murder at times obviously doing daft things but the guys in the platoon just treated me as one of themselves. Oh yeah. Oh, it’s [laughs] it was a happy life as far as I was concerned.
TO: And how did the officers treat you?
PO: Cor that’s a good question. [pause] Well, the officers in the battalion I suppose would treat me just as a private soldier. No demarcation. ‘Oh, he’s young so we’ll make allowances for him.’ There was none of that. But after, when the war was on I mean our officers were mainly people who had been in the Territorial Army or came in from and were created officers for all their Army experience was zilch. And then I mean on one occasion I went to sleep on guard. I should have gone on guard and I said to the, it’s so casual they gave me the rifle because we had one rifle and five rounds of ammunition and nothing else sort of thing. And the guy who came off guard came to me, woke me upon and said, ‘Right. Your turn now.’ So I said, ‘Okay. Put it down there and I’ll get up.’ And I went to sleep and it was 6 o’clock in the morning when I woke up and said, and we were, the whole unit were moving that day and the officers discussed whether they could put me on a charge and they said they couldn’t put me on a charge because it was a Sunday. And you know I knew more about the Army than they did. That they were fielding. I suppose these so-called officers would be grammar school guys and not even university guys. Just guys who had done well at school or got the right connections and they became officers. No. I really had little to do with officers. No. Not until much later on. Then I was instructing officers then. Sandhurst guys and one thing and another. Oh yeah.
TO: And can you tell me about when you first starting working on gliders?
PO: Yeah. I went to a place called Stoke Orchard where there were Hotspur gliders. Now they carried nine guys but they were never used operationally. They were considered a waste of time I suppose and I [pause] our instructors were RAF pilots. Presumably either they’d done a tour of operations and were resting or, but I mean my instructor was a Sergeant McCain. I remember him. He was mad. And we were being towed by, off the ground by a Miles Master aircraft and I don’t know how long it was before I soloed on the gliders. But one day I just couldn’t. I just couldn’t grab it one day and I picked my parachute up because we all wore parachutes when we were flying the Hotspur and I picked my parachute up and got up, left and went and laid down on the grass and told them I wasn’t doing any more. I’d had enough. And I really blotted my copy book there but nothing was ever said. The following day I went back to McCain and we got on with the job as it were. But it that was my first experience of when you come off tow there’s no sound of course and it’s a bit like the Hotspur had got a wingspan big enough that you could use thermals and stuff like this. So it was a bit like being a bird. It was quite something. So that was my introduction and when I left GTS then went to Horsas which were far bigger and being towed off the ground by Dakotas and I mean the Hamilcar of course could only be towed off the ground by a four engine bomber. Halifaxes of 38 Group. They were our towing squadron. But you know the hardest work I suppose of flying a military glider is making certain that you’re in the right position in respect of the towing aircraft because you could get the towing aircraft if you went too high on tow you’d pull the nose of the towing aircraft down you know. And if you went too low you’d stall the, unless they chopped the connection of course. But yeah, it was, well it was just different I suppose. It was, it was just flying and, you know we were doing circuits and bumps day in and day out during the night night flying and stuff like this. Night flying was good because you got a night flying supper which amounted to bacon and eggs and that was great. I’ll tell you there’s a profit in everything if you look for it. Yeah. But yeah. Flying as I say the minute you came off tow there’s only one thing and it’s down. And I mean we never flew a Hamilcar without nine thousand pounds of ballast in it you know because the wingspan was so great that you’d just float and float and float, you know with that. But the Hotspur was as I say was very malleable. The Horsa you could do, put the big flaps down and do dive approaches and things like that but the, the Hamilcar was I mean it was bigger than the towing aircraft so you know they were, they were big. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a picture of a Hamilcar. I’m sure you must have done. But yeah. Yeah. Now, if you’ve got a tank underneath you you know you weigh quite something. I know that we were overloaded on the Rhine crossing that’s for sure. On the Rhine crossing of course like so many others we got we lost all our flying controls as we were being hit by anti-aircraft fire. That was interesting but all that we were left with was the tail trimmer and we were lucky actually because we’d just come off tow and got into sort of our optimum gliding speed and then we lost a great chunk of wing and all our flying controls got severed with the exception of the tail trimmer. So we were already at the right attitude but direction you know we had no control over which way we were going and we were going the wrong way. We weren’t going towards friendly territory. We were going into the enemy territory [laughs] big time but we could do nothing about it. But there you go. When we hit the ground eventually it was, it went to stand on its nose and I got thrown through the Perspex canopy. And I remember I got out, I picked myself up, shouted for a Bren gun which I’d, was my weapon of choice. And one of the gunners I’d got a seventeen pounder gun and truck in the glider and I remember the guy saying, ‘The sergeant’s trapped.’ And I said, ‘Never mind the sergeant being trapped throw me down my Bren gun.’ And I found myself sitting under a dyke with some angry people one side the dyke and me the other trying to eat a Mars bar. [laughs] I mean it’s crazy isn’t it? Talk about adrenaline flowing you know. I just sat there eating a Mars bar. We were getting mortared of course. Oh yeah. It was, I spent the rest of that day running away. How’s that for a big bad soldier [laughs] running away. No. Where was I? It was, it was a good life you know. I was happy in the Army. Yeah.
TO: And what else do you remember about the Rhine crossing?
PO: Well, the first thing I recall we were third in the, in the stream, in the Hamilcar stream and the glider on my port side carried a tank. And to load the tank they would back it in to and shackle it down. And I remember seeing the back end of the glider break open and the tank come out backwards with the guys, the crew a couple or three other crew sitting on the outside of the tank falling off and the tank turning over and going and crashing to the ground or into the Rhine. I don’t know where it went. It made a bloody big hole wherever it went because it was, it was at three thousand feet so you know a tank at three thousand feet wouldn’t bounce. That would really make a good hole when it hit the floor. So that was my first memory of it. Then the smoke which was being generated on the west bank to cover the invasion by, or the incursion by troops on the ground obscured an awful lot of what we were trying to look for to get ourselves, make certain we were landing in the right place and as I say then getting hit. And getting hit was that was funny because I remember looking at the port wing and thinking ‘My God that’s a bloody big hole’ because we lost a great chunk of port wing. We really did. How we kept flying God only knows but you know, we did. As I say we lost all our controls and got hit again well and truly and that was it and then as I say we had no choice in our direction. That was being dictated by where the controls were set and the whims of the wind or what have we. I don’t know. Yeah. I’m sorry but it’s so, you know in retrospect I look back and think how lucky I was but you know I can’t say at the time there was I suppose the adrenalin is flying like the clappers you know. Let’s face it. You know, you don’t think you’re going to die. No way did you think that you were going to die. You just thought, ‘Hell’s bells, that shouldn’t have happened,’ sort of thing. That was it. I’m sorry to disappoint you but you know that was how life went.
TO: And were you badly hurt when the plane landed?
PO: No. Not at all. Not at all. No. No. As I say I got flung. As the aircraft, as the glider tipped up it threw, the cockpit as you know is on the top and it flipped up on to its nose. I thought it was going to turn over and that happened more than once with others where they and the pilots just got crushed. You know, because the load would be on top of them. But it flipped up and I went through the Perspex canopy onto the ground as I say. Then I must have shaken myself and shouted for a Bren gun and then went and scurried very quickly on to the shelter of this dyke and got my Mars bar out [laughs] I’d have given pounds for a drink of water at that stage I can tell you. Oh dear. But oh. I don’t know that I can tell you any more about how I felt you know. I mean I don’t know about your bomber guys but I mean they they thundered on for hours and hours and hours the, on an operation. The real exciting bit if you can call it exciting is when you get there and that lasts what two minutes maybe you know sort of thing maximum you know off tow and you’re going down you know. Oh yeah.
TO: When you were in the cockpit —
PO: Yeah.
TO: When you were coming in to land were you wearing a helmet?
PO: Do you know I don’t know if I’d got a steel helmet on or not. I know I very very quickly put my red beret on. That, that [laughs] sounds daft doesn’t it? But yeah. Yeah. I must have done. I must have done. If I hadn’t had, if I hadn’t had a steel helmet on I’d have really hurt my head. Yeah. So I must have done. Yeah. I’m fairly certain I did thinking about it. But as I say I quickly discarded it and put my red beret on and there I was a big bad airborne soldier so be careful because you’re dealing with the crème de la crème of the British Army so to speak. Yeah.
TO: Did German soldiers attack your glider?
PO: Oh yeah. They mortared it. They obviously they could see the tail of the aircraft sticking up like a signpost so they knew and they’d see it come down. I mean without a doubt they’d know. I mean it’s big enough to see it isn’t it if it’s a little thing and we were getting mortared straightaway. I mean the earth was jumping up and down all around the place like nobody’s business. Of course, we left. We moved from there and joined up with some Irish guys and some of the Ox and Bucks thing and we decided they weren’t the best people to go with. Beauman and I the other pilot in the glider. It was a question of somebody an officer say sergeant so and so sergeant so and so is dead sir. Sergeant so and so. Corporal so and so. Corporal so and so is dead sir. We thought we don’t want to be with this lot. This sounds a bit iffy. So we left them and ran ran away somewhere else and joined up with some others and then eventually we sort of fought our way back to where we should be as it were which was quite some distance actually. We were quite a way from the Hamilcar. Yeah. But oh no. I mean the, I remember the Americans coming in as we were I’ll call it retreating [laughs] and a glider landed twenty or thirty feet from where we were and not a soul got out. The Schmeissers just ripped the glider apart and not not one person got out. So that would be what? Twenty two guys just dead before they’d even had a chance to get out of the glider. I mean it was. It was quite hairy in the initial stages. Then we obviously had total control of the area and that was it. Yeah. Just hid in German foxholes and stuff like that.
TO: Had the Germans installed anti glider obstacles?
PO: I can’t say I saw any. I can’t say. Well, you see we we landed in the wrong place. We landed where we shouldn’t have been so to speak. We, our, the aircraft I was in lost total directional control so we went probably I don’t know probably way past where we should have been as I say. We were out on a limb you know. So, so no, I can’t say I saw any, any anti-aircraft landing posts and stuff like that that they seeded the grounds within some areas because obviously I mean the first German I took prisoner he demanded to know where we’d been. He said to me in good English, ‘Where have you been?’ and I said, ‘What do you mean where have we been?’ He said, ‘They tell us English flying troops come and we hide in the woods and wait for you. You not come. Where have you been?’ [laughs] Yeah. So we weren’t unexpected. But no but that’s it as I said. Very sort of ordinary experience I suppose.
TO: And the I think you said there was a seventeen pounder gun in the Hamilcar.
PO: Yeah.
TO: Did they manage to get it out?
PO: God knows. I never [laughs] I don’t even know what happened to the gun crew. I really don’t. Presumably they’d get their sergeant out who was trapped. How he was trapped I haven’t a clue, you know. It’s, I don’t recall seeing any of the gun detachment that was there. You know, getting out. I mean how many of them would get injured God only knows. You know. Whether the quad truck that was the towing vehicle whether that set forward I mean it would have been chained down but you know when you hit the ground at a fair old rate of knots and you know, the shackles and stuff would probably get pulled out of the strong points anyhow. So, but I mean I never saw any signs of the, as I recall of the gunners or I mean certainly the seventeen pounder no that never as far as I know never came out. Never came out.
TO: And how long was it before you met up with other allied soldiers?
PO: I suppose it would be maybe twenty minutes. Something like that. I mean we were skulking along and trying to keep out of the way of these angry people. I mean two guys [laughs] Two guys and a Bren gun and a rifle I wasn’t going to take on the Wehrmacht.
TO: So was it only mortars landing it at you or soldiers shooting at you as well?
PO: Yes. It was my memory is of mortars. Yeah. Being mortared. Yeah. Yeah. And certainly there was certainly plenty of that. Yeah. And as I say it wasn’t until we got with some other troops that we as I say the guys in the American glider they just got, I mean we were sort of trying to keep out of the way and these guys with their Schmeissers and MG 42s boy they really ripped into these Americans. I mean they were landing all over the place. But the one that really did I remember vividly is this thing came skidding to a halt. Made a beautiful landing he made but nobody got out. Nobody got out. They all got killed before they got out. Yeah.
TO: How far away from you was that glider when it came in to land?
PO: Twenty feet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s all. I mean we were shouting. We shouted at them daft as it sounds, ‘Get out. Get out.’ But it was too late. The Germans were there just the other side of where these Americans were landing. Again obviously in the wrong place really and yeah they just got killed. Yeah. Oh yeah. And my I suppose my other memory is the first night I went to find some tea. Find something to drink and I found a field hospital sort of. Not a posh place by any means. It was just a house that had been taken over as a field hospital and I was outside and a surgeon came out. He was covered in, in blood and one thing and another and there were all these dead guys lying lined up outside and he said to me, ‘Have you ever seen [pause] have you ever seen a man’s brains, sergeant?’ And I said, ‘No.’ And he said, and he lifted the helmet of one soldier and his whole of his cranium was in the helmet and in the bowl of his head was his brains. Yeah. I mean it could have been it looked just like meat to me because I didn’t know the guy or anything you know. But it was there must have been thirty or forty bodies all laid out by this field hospital sort of thing. But yeah, funny old [pause] God. Yeah.
TO: And as a sergeant what were your responsibilities once you were on the ground?
PO: We were supposed, supposed to get to Hamminkeln where the headquarters was. That was our, I mean you know sort of the basically of course we were quite valuable in the time and money that had spent on training us as Special Forces in a way. That’s gilding the lily a bit but you know sort of thing. I mean at D-Day for example. Guys who landed on D-Day they were back in the UK within twelve hours. Glider pilots, you know. Arnhem of course was a very different ball game. They didn’t come back until well the battle was over basically. The guys from Arnhem because we were planned to go to the Far East you know. Oh yeah. So that’s it. I’m sorry. It’s so mundane really. There’s no great heroics or anything like that in it whatsoever. I was just doing a job that I was trained for and you know it was my memories are good. The only thing is all the guys I knew have all fallen off the log. I think I’m one of the last ones. I don’t know of any others at the moment I must admit. There must be the odd one somewhere or other.
TO: What was your unit’s objective for the Rhine crossing?
PO: Basically to get this seventeen pounder gun and whatnot in the, to the right place so they could take part in the battle order or whatever. And we failed miserably because we wrecked it. Yeah. Nothing more that. Nothing more than that. To get it there safely. I mean the hard work really was the tow, you know. It was a long tow and you know if you’re fighting the aircraft all the way. The glider all the way it just doesn’t, it just didn’t sail along on its own. You know, you’re working all the time to keep the thing in the right position and you know talking to the tug crew as it were. Yeah. I mean it’s like your bomber boys. I mean the minute they take off Lancasters haven’t got automatic pilots and stuff like that. They’re working all the time and their objective is to get to the target and get back. As for the bombing and all the rest of the navigation and whatnot that’s not their responsibility. The pilot’s job is to the get the aircraft there safely and get it back safely if they can. And that was, that was it. Yeah. No, there’s some very brave men and I can’t say I’m one of them [laughs] I just knew some very brave men. Believe you me.
TO: Do you remember anything about the briefing for the Rhine crossing?
PO: About the —?
TO: Briefing before you left.
PO: Yes. We were promised total aircover which didn’t appear. We had some air cover because I remember talking to the guys down below. They couldn’t see anything and I remember telling them what I could see. And I could see aircraft either getting shot up or parachuting down and I sort of gave them a bit of a running commentary of what was going on as it were. But other than that the flight was pretty uneventful you know sort of thing. You could see an awful lot of the ground. We were at three thousand feet. Just over three thousand feet and of course at three thousand feet you see an awful lot of the ground so I could tell them, you know, ‘We’re just wide of Calais at the moment.’ Because of course Calais was still in German hands so we sort of went around Calais and whatnot and then like I say I could see four Thunderbolt aircraft on our port side or whatever and sort of its whether whether they listened or not I don’t know.
TO: And did you talk much with the co-pilot?
PO: Oh, well I suppose we must have. Bert and I must have sort of talked to one another but I don’t recall it to be honest with you. I really don’t. We were just flying you know.
TO: And what did you say to the tug crew on the radio?
PO: Well, the thing I do remember is we thanked them for the tow. That was, that was about the size of it sort of. When we got to the other end I mean we probably had a couple of words with them during the tow you know sort of thing because there was a sort of a telephone wire inside the tow rope which was a damned big rope I can tell you [pause] But yeah. No, that’s about it I’m afraid.
TO: Looking back how do you feel about the airborne operation on the Rhine?
PO: Well, it was the biggest operation there was without doubt. I mean I’m glad I was there. As I say it was part of my education [laughs] as it were. No. I was just proud to be a member of a regiment that covered itself in a reasonable amount of glory and my real feeling I suppose is that I felt privileged to have known so many brave men and I really did do you know. And I mean as I say the friendships that resulted from being in I mean I know I knew more people after the war who were in the regiment than the Royal Artillery Regiment I was in or the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, you know. And now as I say the Army Air Corps have, you know taken over the modern Army Air Corps and they’re very shall I say friendly towards me sort of thing. Yeah. Oh yes.
TO: And when did you hear about Operation Market Garden?
PO: I was with the American 9th Troop Carrier Command at the time and my boss was one of the original parachutists that went to Bruneval and he was a sergeant at the time of Bruneval and his name was Luton. And I remember Luton saying to me he was, he was very upset about the losses at Arnhem. He knew there was a battle going on. We knew there was a battle going on but he was very upset because of course he was, they were mainly paras at Arnhem and you know he was sort of, as I say quite upset at the thought of all his mates fighting there and A he wasn’t there or B he was you know sort of feeling sorry for them losing their lives. I don’t know. But that’s my memory of Arnhem. As I say the minute Arnhem was over I found myself very quickly back into a fighting unit as opposed to living high off the hog in the, with the American Air Force. Oh yeah.
TO: And were you worried that the Rhine crossing would end like Arnhem?
PO: No. No. Oh no. No. No. We couldn’t lose. That was the attitude. We couldn’t lose. I don’t know if that’s the time that we were told two of us out of three would probably die but you look at the other two guys either side of you and think oh I’m sorry for you. But no. I don’t recall it. No. I think the briefing probably took an hour. Maybe a bit more than an hour and of course we talked to the tug crews you know and that sort of thing but [pause] funny old life.
TO: And do you think the Rhine crossing could have gone any better or do you think it was that was just how it would have gone regardless?
PO: I, the first thing that happens to any battle plan is it‘s going to go wrong. Now I can’t say that it went really wrong. It went wrong as far as I personally was concerned because of what happened but I think in the main it was to a large degree I think an awful lot of the Germans knew the writing was on the wall. I think, you know they could see that the amount of, of forces against them were totally overwhelming and where we’d got everything I think they’d got very very little. I think it was, yeah. I think you’d put it down as a success. I don’t think the losses were anything as great as they thought they were going to be. I mean I don’t honestly know what the percentage of losses was but yeah I think it was, you know a success. Especially after, after Arnhem. I mean that really was carnage that. Yeah. The battle for the bridge was well it was hopeless wasn’t it?
TO: And what did you think of the airborne generals like Gale or Urquhart?
PO: I actually saw Urquhart at one of the big, as I saw Eisenhower at one of the big demonstrations or practice jumps and stuff like that when I was with the 9th Air Force and they came across as being very very competent guys. I mean Windy Gale and, you know [pause] I think that this sounds silly in a way but I think we had the best officers that you could possibly have. They were. They were really all, they weren’t that gung-ho that they’d walk into the Valley of Death willingly. But they’d make bloody certain that if they had to walk into the Valley of Death you got the impression that they were going to take an awful lot of people with them. Yeah. I mean Gale yeah. Yes. Our leadership was good. Our leadership was. I think we had the crème de la crème of officers without a shadow of a doubt. Very very strict but very human and skilled in what they were doing. They really were. I mean a lot of them of course never went to Sandhurst or anything like that. They were wartime people but boy they were the right guys in the right place. Yeah. I mean when you think when I joined the glider pilot regiment in my intake there were a hundred and thirty of us got through the selection. I mean we lost a hell of a lot in the selection in London on academic or physical capabilities you know and then as I say a hundred successful candidates from that. From the aircrew medical and all the rest of it thirty of us finished up and out of the thirty of us I think probably eighteen, twenty of us actually went flying you know. They couldn’t hack the basic training. You know I mean all that you’d got to do if you didn’t, if you couldn’t do it you could just say, ‘I’m leaving.’ And they’d give you a railway warrant back to your parent regiment. There was you know if you can’t do it we don’t want you. And they made it very very obvious. I mean you’d just got to be very very determined to stay in the regiment and and meet their qualification requirements as it were. So yeah. I mean it was, it was a regiment full of course of people from all regiments in the British Army. I mean I’ve made great friends with a guy who had been a schoolteacher but he was Armoured Corps driver operator and when we were doing exams he’d sit next to me and I’d help him with, with my answers and he’d help me with his answers. So we got through that way sort of thing. But it’s I mean some guys as I say got flying and just couldn’t fly. I mean it sounds silly but they just hadn’t got the aptitude. Others managed to kill themselves. You know, it’s [pause] No, it was a super super regiment. A super regiment. Of course, it got disbanded after the war. No, no requirement. Yeah. So that’s it. I’m sorry but you know it‘s probably not what you wanted but that’s what you’ve got.
TO: This is amazing. Thank you for telling me.
PO: Pardon?
TO: This is amazing. Thank you for telling me.
PO: Oh, I don’t know about that. It’s just that it was just how life was I’m afraid. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And what did you think of General Montgomery?
PO: Never had anything to do with him. Again, I think when he went to the 8th Army after Auchinleck and those failed miserably in the desert that he was again the right man at the right time. He was, he’d got sufficient common sense that he could despite what he might feel internally he appealed as one of them to the troops under his command and sort of said, ‘Right. This is it. This is what we’re going to do.’ And do it. And I mean good God with the desert Army. I mean they’d been battered by losing Tobruk and even, I mean good God Rommel even got into Egypt and along comes this guy with his old peculiar ways and attitudes and one thing and another but as far as the troops were concerned this guy knows what he’s doing and we’re going to you know we can do this and we’re all together you know. He’s with us and we’re with him. So his PR was extremely good. But I mean I never met the man or he never impinged as far as I know on my, my military life as it were. Oh no. No.
TO: And did you have any popular songs in the Army?
PO: Oh gosh. Yeah. Before the war we used to march and sing songs. One was about a boxing match. “Have you heard of the big strong man who lives in a caravan?” I mean crazy words but not, not popular songs. Not not popular. Very, very much sort of Army songs and of course an awful lot before the war. Of course an awful lot of the soldiers were, had been up on the North-West Frontier you know. In Afghanistan and places like this so they were all hardened. Quite a lot of the real hardened tough thick soul guys you know. What is said in the book was absolute and you didn’t query anything and they were just tough guys. I mean when I think about it at sixteen I got thrown in with guys old enough to be my father and life just, that was I just accepted it you know. Talk about being thrown in at the deep end but I mean I look at some of the young people today at sixteen and good God it would kill him. Whereas with me it just that was my life. Oh yeah.
TO: Did you have any favourite wartime entertainers?
PO: Wartime?
TO: Entertainers.
PO: I only ever once saw an ENSA concert. My biggest regret is that I was at the time at Exeter and Glenn Miller came and I didn’t go. I wish to God I’d gone because he was at, he came to Exeter with the US Air Force Band. Yeah. But other than that I saw one ENSA. No, I did see an American entertainment once. Yeah. So I saw one ENSA concert and one American one but my biggest regret is I should have gone, why I don’t know but Glenn Miller. Yeah. But there you go. What’s past is past. You can’t alter the past.
TO: So what happened after you’d met up with Allied troops at the Rhine? Did you start advancing with them?
PO: No. We got we were, the glider pilots got taken out of the line. We went back to a transit camp and two days or three days later we were flown back from [unclear] to in actual fact we went back to Brize Norton. We landed at Brize Norton and then from there we dissipated to our various squadrons. So, oh no. We didn’t. We didn’t do an awful lot of fighting believe you me. As I say I did more running away than fighting.
TO: Did you ever actually use the Bren gun in combat?
PO: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A bit. Yeah, it was. I mean on one occasion we were with a group of about eight or nine troops. What regiment they were I haven’t got a clue but they were there were two young officers with them. I remember that and we were there in this wood and lo and behold about forty Germans went across and these guys stood up, put their binoculars up to their, and said, one said to the other, ‘Jeremy, there are some Jerries over here.’ And I thought you don’t need [laughs] I’m on the floor I can tell you keeping my head down. I could see them. Didn’t need to stand up with binoculars to look at these Germans but we we let them go. You know it was over. We knew it was over. You know. No point in killing them. We’d done our fighting. As I say we were on our way back to the transit camp to be flown home. Yeah. So as I say I had a very easy war. I really did.
TO: Was the Bren gun a good weapon?
PO: Yes. I was happy with it for all it [pause] I mean when we were running away around my waist I had got a lanyard and the barrel catch would occasionally catch on to this and the guts of the Bren gun would fall out and I’d have to stop. Now, I was in a, there were about I don’t know about fifteen or twenty of us sort of sneaking away and I’d stop and put the Bren gun together again very quickly. But every time I stopped somebody would pass me and I think I nearly finished up at the tail end of this little, little group who were running away. Yeah. Talk about, but it was, it was a good weapon. It was a good weapon. Very slow rate of fire when you consider that like the Germans I mean their weapons, automatic weapons were, were like sewing machines you know. Zzzz zzzz zzzzz where as ours went bang bang bang sort of thing. Yeah. Oh yes. Very. I mean, I forget what the rate of fire of a Bren is at the moment. Something like a hundred and twenty a minute or something. But yeah, it‘s, it was a good, a good weapon. It lasted throughout well. Lasted well throughout the war and beyond. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And can you tell me about the training you did in gliders? Like when you were practicing landings.
PO: Well, yeah. I mean the skill in flying basically is landing. Taking off is pretty straightforward and easy really as long as you obeyed the rules. Landing is, is always the problem but you know the more you do I mean we would do maybe with a Hamilcar for example we would do if we were flying we’d probably fly for ten minutes on a circuit and then land and roll to a stop. The tug wagon would come out and pull us back to the start and we would, and we just did circuits and landings. I mean the clever bit is landing it in one piece and well that was it, that was it you know. I mean landing a Tiger Moth is far harder. I found far harder because you basically do a three point landing you know. You’re virtually at a stall whereas with the glider you flew in at whatever the airspeed was and plonked it on the floor and it was a very, very forgiving aircraft really. I mean okay you could have some hard landings but in the main you know you just fly them straight on to the floor.
TO: When you were heading towards the landing site —
PO: Yeah.
TO: Did you have to be on the look out for things like tall trees or power lines?
PO: On transit no because we were flying above any possible obstructions. Our landing sites were usually I mean operationally our landing sites were fairly open land. I don’t honestly recall being warned of any. The only obstructions I think we were ever talk about was sort of hedges or barbed wire fences type of thing. Other than that pylons and stuff where we were I don’t think anything like that existed to be honest with you. No. No. Oh no. If there were I don’t recall it I must admit. I can’t even recall seeing a pylon. Okay. You’d get the telephone wires and poles like that but you know they were on, on the road as it were as opposed to being in the fields. Yeah. I mean there were some big fields in Germany believe you me.
TO: And was it a field you landed in in Germany then?
PO: Well, it was we actually landed in a very small field I can tell you [laughs] yeah. It was without doubt we were running out of space big time but once it dug into the ground you know as I say we had no control so once we hit the ground the ground was very soft and we pulled up a bit smartly and as I say then it stood on its nose. Yeah. Yeah. But [pause] yeah.
TO: And before the Hamilcar crash landed in Germany did you, were you telling the, everybody on board to brace for impact or —
PO: No. I didn’t. I doubt, once we were hit I think we were a bit too busy to talk to anybody down below. I mean we were already in in free flight when we were hit so we were you know looking for where we ought to be and then we were hit and it was just a question of fighting the aircraft. I mean when you think the tail trimmer was only about that size on a Hamilcar. That’s the only control we’d got and that only altered attitude. Directional. We were just sitting tight and you know our buttocks were very tight together [laughs] and hold on. We’re going to hit the ground boys. What they thought down below I haven’t got a clue. In fact, I don’t honestly know whether the actual fuselage where the load was I don’t even know if that was ever hit with ack ack fire or small arms fire or anything. I really don’t. I just know that we lost this great big chunk of port wing and then all our controls. We got hit in the fuselage and all our controls went out the window. And that was it.
TO: And do you know which, what kind of guns were shooting at you?
PO: Just about everything. I mean when we got on the ground there was an immediate resupply by a Liberator aircraft and they came over at about two hundred and fifty feet. That was all. With their bomb doors wide open dropping all the resupply kit and near us there was, must have been an anti-aircraft battery. They were good. They shot down about four of these Liberators just like that. Bang bang bang you know. Lots of noise and whatnot but whether they were eighty eights or forty mil or thirty mil Oerlikons or what I haven’t got a clue. But lots, there was lots of ack ack fire believe you me. Oh yes. I mean, you know what a lovely target. A great big glider flying along slowly. I mean if you can’t hit that you shouldn’t be in the shooting game. Oh dear.
TO: And did the, you, did you or any of your men manage to pick up any of those resupplies?
PO: I didn’t personally. No. No. In fact, I lost quite a bit of kit. I mean I came out of that with my Bren gun and one magazine. That was all I’d got. A Bren gun and a magazine and that was all I came away from that aircraft and as I say as for the gunners I don’t know what they did. I mean whether they, whether they got mortared and you know were sort of damaged or what I don’t know. I really don’t know. I should have. Not that I say I should. I know an armoured regiment spoke to me about this tank falling out of the glider but as for the seventeen pounder guys I don’t know what happened to those gunners. I really don’t know. Yeah.
TO: So did you only have one clip of ammunition when you took the gun away.
PO: Yeah, I just I just had one. One magazine in the Bren gun and believe you me if the rabbit had have popped it’s head up near me it would have got the lot I can tell you [laughs] yeah.
TO: So did you use the ammunition at all or did you not?
PO: I used some of it. Not all of it because you know targets don’t stand still sort of thing. You know what I mean. I mean it’s so easy. You see some of these things on television these days where they’re letting off their AK47s and they seem to rattle it out and its cost is no no consequence to them. They’re not bothered. No. There was no resupply as far as I was concerned at the time. Oh no. I mean we went to clear a wood and as I say it’s [pause] I don’t know.
TO: So did you join up with a group of other soldiers and eventually met up with other allied soldiers?
PO: Yes. Eventually yeah. We, yeah we, we met. Now, again I don’t know if they were Irish Fusiliers or whether they were Ox and Bucks. I know that we were, we were told or asked to go and clear a path to a wood across these open fields and all the way across. Beauman and I joined these guys and I I think they must have been Irish guys because all the way across these other guys were saying, you know, the effing Ox and Bucks. We’ve got two effing glider pilots here but none of the effing Ox and Bucks want to come with us so to speak. But we hared across these fields and got to the wood as luckily there was nothing in the wood which was just as well. But all, and I just remember going across a barbed wire fence and dashing across this field in the open and I thought this is a bit dicey but, you know. Oh yeah. All part of life’s gay pattern.
TO: Did you feel relieved though when you met up with the allies who’d crossed the Rhine?
PO: I must have done. Must have done. Yeah. The first troops I think I met that I can recall were a Canadian armoured regiment and they, they were quite happy. And then we met some troops that had come over the Rhine and they couldn’t believe that we’d left the UK only the day before and that we’d be back in the UK within a week because they’d been there since D-Day. Yeah. I mean some guys had a really rough war. They really did. I mean you know gosh just as well I didn’t stay in an infantry regiment.
TO: Do you happen to hear, be familiar with the name Koppenhof Farm at all?
PO: No.
TO: Okay. Just asking because there was a soldier I interviewed ten years ago who had been in the Royal Ulster Rifles. He landed in the Rhine crossing.
PO: Yeah.
TO: In a place called Koppenhof Farm and because he well it must have been relatively close to Hamminkeln.
PO: Yeah.
TO: Because he said his commanding officer died when his glider, when their glider crashed near there but I just wondered if maybe you had been in a similar area but —
PO: Well, I might have been. I mean I know we crossed the railway line a couple of times to get where we wanted. Well we got back to Hamminkeln. That’s where we, I finished up. In Hamminkeln.
TO: Yeah.
PO: But of course on the railway station there there was two wrecked gliders. They’d landed right on the blooming railway line. Right on Hamminkeln itself.
TO: That was one of the gliders though that this man was talking about because he said his commanding officer was a chap called Major Vickery who was in one of the gliders that crashed into the railway station and he was killed.
PO: Ah well there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I remember seeing that glider. Yeah. Equally I saw a Horsa fly in to a tree and just break up like a box of matches being thrown everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Exciting times at the time. Yeah.
TO: And did you happen to see any German civilians when you were there?
PO: Oh yes. Yeah. Actually, I met children rather than adults because one lad he was part of the Todt [?] Labour Association and he said that the Germans had lined them all up and more or less said, ‘What are you?’ And if you said German Jew they shot them. Terrible as it sounds this is what he said to me. But I remember we, I’d got some soap. Don’t ask where it came from. I really don’t know. I must have looted it out of somebody else’s stuff and I gave him this soap. Well, you’d think I’d given him a bar of gold. I mean he put it to his nose and of course the smell of Lux soap as it were. Yeah. I don’t know what happened to that kid. He stayed with us for quite a few hours and then disappeared. Whether he was being street wise or what I don’t know. No. I didn’t of course there was a non-fraternisation ban on so you weren’t supposed to talk to any German civilians but where we were there was only the odd farmhouse and stuff like that you know outside of Hamminkeln itself there was nothing. I mean I went to Goch to look at Goch. By jingo that was, that had been fought over a couple of times. That was a total wreck that town. But no. Yeah. So then we got on. I’m sorry, that’s, that’s me such as it is.
TO: Did you get to talk with any other German prisoners?
PO: No. No. I, I was sent to guard some prisoners. There must have been I don’t know a couple of hundred of them and all I’d got at the time was a fighting knife. That’s all I’d got. My fighting knife. And they were all standing there and sitting there and one thing and another and one of our officers came up or an officer came up. I don’t know if he was one of our officers and spoke to one of the German officers and this German officer spit at him. And I thought he’s going to kill him. I really did. But believe you me there I was with all these prisoners so called all very happy I think to be prisoners but just as well because if they’d have raised up and started to make any trouble I’d have, I’d have been off like a rocket I can tell you on my own with all these guys. Yeah. No. Yeah. That’s it. All little sort of vignettes of memory coming up here one way or the other.
TO: And what happened when you got back to Britain? What were your responsibilities then?
PO: Well, the first thing was when we got to Brize Norton the Customs and Excise people wanted to know what, what we’d brought back with us and of course we’d got nothing basically. We were just us. And then I went back to to Tarrant Rushton which was down near Bournemouth. It was, that’s where my squadron was based so I went back there in the hut. Got in the hut and I think there were only two of us left out of the hut who came back. So we lost, out of, out of the hut we must have lost I don’t know about ten guys I suppose. Yeah. Because we then sorted out all their kit. I remember sorting out their kit. Yeah. I had enough handkerchiefs to see me through the rest of my service career I think out of these guys kits. I wasn’t, wasn’t sending those home to their wives and daughters. Handkerchiefs. They were like gold. Yeah.
TO: And did your co-pilot come back with you?
PO: Yeah. Oh yes. Bert and I came. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes. Yeah. And, and also Bert wasn’t in my, wasn’t in my hut funnily enough. Who was with me? Was it Geoff Higgins? There were two of us in our hut. That was all out of the ones that left only a week before sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And do you remember the day the war ended?
PO: Oh, very much so. I was at Fairford the actual day the war ended when, because we were converting then onto Wacos to go to the Far East. Being lectured about Bushido and all the rest of it. What a load of rubbish. How to behave if we were taken prisoner by the Japanese. Good God. The Japanese would have just killed us the way it seemed they were inclined to treat their prisoners. But yeah, that was it. We all cheered. We really did and then of course we started getting parties you know. The Australians would be going home so we’d have a party in the mess for them and then the Canadians were going home. You know. And these were RAF people not glider pilots. RAF people out of 38 Group towing. Halifax pilots and stuff like that, you know. Tow pilots. Yeah. Yes. Happy days that was. Yeah.
TO: Do you remember what you did to celebrate?
PO: Yes. Now, let me think. VE Day. VE Day what I’ve just been saying was VJ Day thinking about it. VE Day I was on leave. I was in London with my, my future wife. Yeah. We had a great day. That was a great day dancing like idiots around Trafalgar Square and one thing and another. That was really a super day that. But the whole world was you know celebrating. The fact that there was still fighting going on in the Far East didn’t mean anything. It was, you know the European war had finished. Great. We were going to have a great time and it was [pause] It was. Yeah. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. Then I got married and was married for seventy two years. That’s a long time.
TO: And what are your thoughts on how warfare has changed in the time since?
PO: Oh, it has totalled. I mean the first war if you like was in Northern Ireland and that was terrible. You know. You didn’t know who, who your enemy was. I mean, I was still in the Forces but I wasn’t involved in any way, shape or form in Northern Ireland. I’d have hated to go to Northern Ireland from what I’ve been told by Royal Marines as much as anything. But I mean the war in Afghanistan that was a waste of time and money in so many ways. If the Russians couldn’t do them I mean the Russians had a go at Afghanistan and failed miserably and the Americans and ourselves what have we achieved? Nothing. It’s as far as I’m concerned I might be very uneducated in that sort of respect but I I think that the shape of warfare is so different. I mean I got a letter from a lieutenant general the other day saying that his daughter was currently in the Royal Artillery but she was just flying drones. Now, I mean you know drones. Good God in my day something like a drone would have been [pause] just imagine a drone being over the battlefield in the Second World War. But here now of course young people are sitting in a hut in Lincolnshire flying drones out over the Far East. Warfare has changed just so much. In many ways its frightening. As long as we, these little wars I mean the war that’s taking place at the moment in, you know with Russia and with, what’s the [pause] come on what’s the name of the country? I’ve lost it.
TO: Ukraine.
PO: Ukraine. I mean we’re supplying them with weapons and what are we doing? I wouldn’t mind betting it’s just a proving ground for our latest technologies to see how well it works you know. As long as we keep away from the atomic business. That’s the frightener. That really is the frightener. I mean I remember after the war when I was at a conference and they said the Russians are only two hours flying time away and we were on about going nuclear after, after forty eight hours. We would have gone nuclear and stuff like this. That was frightening at the time. I mean since then, I’m now talking of 1950s and now, now things have got even worse. No. As long as Putin doesn’t go over the top because that could be, really could be terrible. Terrible. What do you think about it?
TO: I just think it’s probably the most as it were filmed, media televised war we’ve seen. It’s almost every action is being filmed on either a phone, a drone or a camera somewhere. It’s probably the first war where you’re almost watching it in real time if you like.
PO: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True. Very true. Yeah. I hadn’t thought of it quite like that. Yes. It’s so immediate isn’t it today? Yeah.
TO: Have you watched any of the things like the footage that’s been almost live from the front line?
PO: Oh yeah. I, I’ve seen what everybody else sees on on the box you know. Some of these war reporters I mean good God. Talk about putting themselves in to danger but of course it’s such a big country isn’t it? It’s huge. I mean it’s the size of France and Germany I understand. Well, France is a damned big country on its own let alone tack Germany on to it. And here you’ve got to so I don’t know. I mean I can’t see the Russians winning that war. The West won’t let them win it. But the ramifications of it affect everybody. I mean like these grain convoys and stuff like this and taking out power supplies for the civilians and terrible you know. It’s diplomacy failed totally. You know. We can’t talk to you so we’ll fight you. No good.
TO: I’m afraid I’m out of battery on my camera at the moment. Would you mind if we stop there?
PO: Yeah. [unclear] yeah.
TO: Thank you very much for speaking to us. It’s been wonderful.
PO: No, well, I as I say when I think when you, when you screen through that you’ll be very disappointed that my war was a totally different war to almost everybody else’s I think. It doesn’t, there was no great heroics in it. It was just the way it was. Yeah. Well great. Well, that’s very kind of you to be so generous with your comment and I wish you well with your project.
TO: Thank you. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Peter Offord Davies. Part One
Creator
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Tom Ozel
Date
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2022-11-05
Type
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Sound
Format
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01:57:18 audio recording
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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ADaviesPO221105-AV
Coverage
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British Army
Royal Air Force
Language
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eng
Description
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Peter was born in Coventry. Although in the army, Peter was stationed on RAF airfields and joined the Royal Warwickshire Regiment in October 1938, aged 16, transferring to the Royal Artillery. He then joined the Army Air Corps (AAC) and was part of the Glider Pilot Regiment.
Peter first learnt to fly powered aircraft at Elementary Flying Training School and was then attached to the 9th United States Air Force. He flew in C-47s, then went back to C squadron, flying Hamilcars. When the war finished, Peter went to Fairford and converted onto Waco CG-4As to go to the Far East.
Peter discusses the time leading up to the Second World War, his views on Chamberlain and Churchill, and how prepared the country was for war. He describes his training and time as a boy soldier.
He trained at RAF Stoke Orchard on Hotspur gliders, towed off the ground by Master aircraft. When he left Glider Training School he went on Horsas, towed by C-47s. Hamilcars needed four-engined bombers: 38 Squadron Halifaxes. Peter describes flying these different gliders.
Peter recounts in some detail the Rhine crossing in which they were hit by anti aircraft fire and landed nose down before escaping to Hamminkeln and ultimately returning to RAF Brize Norton and then to his squadron at RAF Tarrant Rushton. He talks about his Bren gun.
Peter expresses his pride and the many friendships made. He also praises several generals for their roles in the war.
Peter discusses the VJ and VE Day celebrations and how warfare has since changed.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1938
1945-05-08
1945-08-15
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Dorset
England--Oxfordshire
Germany
Rhine River
Germany--Hamminkeln
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
38 Squadron
anti-aircraft fire
C-47
Chamberlain, Neville (1869-1940)
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
crash
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
military ethos
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Tarrant Rushton
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2255/40603/ADaviesPO221106-AV.2.mp3
1ca7c1beab74b249f4baf7566e71aa2b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Davies, Peter Offord
P O Davies
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Captain Peter Orfford Davies (b. 1922). He served with a Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment of the Royal Artillery at various RAF stations. He later retrained as a glider pilot and flew during the Rhine Crossing.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-11-06
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Davies, PO
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
TO: So, you know how last time you told me how you’d seen the, was it the R100 airship when you were younger?
PO: Oh yes. The R100. Yeah.
TO: Did you, were you interested in other airships in the world like the Hindenburg?
PO: Not, not really. No. I mean what age would I [pause] I would only have been eight or nine you know, sort of thing. The Hindenburg. No. No. I mean I think I’d probably be aware of it but you know, we had the R100 and the R101, you know. We had two airships but as for the German aviation no. I think the first thing I ever became aware of of German aviation other than sort of First World War sort of aircraft were the Junkers 52 which of course it was a triplane and unusual and was you know sort of the leading aircraft at the time I think, you know. We hadn’t anything comparable with it as far as I know. No. No, it, I mean I heard about the Zeppelins in the First World War from my mother you know and that sort of thing but yeah my own, my interest in aviation was such as we saw of it and heard of it. That was it. No, no great depth of, you know I must look into this or I must look in to that sort of thing.
TO: And did you think that airships had a future for travelling?
PO: I don’t know. I mean you know we were very naïve I think in those days you know. A bit early in my life really to have an opinion as such I think. Yes. I was just a, I mean what you’ve got to remember is that I mean the children I deal with in school they’re five and six years old. Boy they’re so up to date and with it. We were very naïve you know. I mean it was almost sort of well I mean my early life was horse and cart sort of you know. That was the method of transport. And buses with solid tyres and stuff like this, you know. Yeah. Oh yes. Very different childhood to today. So when you look at today’s children they’re very streetwise in some cases. They’re well-travelled. I mean kids I deal with you know they’ve been to South America. They’ve been here, they’ve been there, all over the world and they think nothing of it. It’s their world. A totally different world to my childhood world. Totally different.
TO: And what rations did you have in the Army?
PO: Well, it depends where you were. I was never ever in a big camp so our rations were brought to us generally once a week and it was down to I mean a lot of my, at the early part of the war well the very early part of the war of course we were living on basically on stew. It was the breakfast was porridge which invariably was burned and the main course in our mess tins we had two. A mess tin with, a deep mess tin and a shallow one and the lid went on, you know. Not the square ones they have today. These were half round and you’d get tinned tomato and bacon and that was with bread and that was your breakfast. Lunch was stew. Teatime would be bread, butter and jam and tea of course. And that was it. But when I was in charge of my twelve fourteen guys and our gun and computer our rations were brought once a week and it was down to our cook whoever the cook was as to what you what you got. But generally speaking we were never hungry. Never hungry. Never hungry. No. I mean you know we used to forage at times or even steal potatoes out of a field or something but we weren’t beyond, we were typical soldiery I suppose. You know, when the devil drives the needs are must. Yeah. Oh yes. No. No. The rations, the only shortage I ever remember was sugar. Sugar and onions. Onions were in, were like gold. God knows why. I suppose we imported so many and they weren’t high on the list of freight to be carried across the state, from the States or wherever.
TO: And what do you remember about the blackouts?
PO: The blackout [pause] That’s a good question. What did I think about the blackouts? I mean it really it is never really dark. It’s amazing. I mean it depends on the cloud cover I suppose as to whether you got light from the stars or the moon. I mean we used to hate the moon because it was like daylight so you were more likely to be bombed as it were in in the the moonlight than on a black night. But I think, I think the civilians suffered more. There were more probably more casualties in the civilian population then there were in the, certainly in the Army population through people getting knocked over by vehicles or walking into things that weren’t there sort of thing, you know. Falling down holes. God only knows. No. The blackout. We used to sing a song about the blackout and the moon but no no but I don’t think the blackout bothered us. No. It certainly didn’t seem to bother me from recollection.
TO: And did you meet or see any evacuees?
PO: No. No. The only thing that I ever saw was the people sleeping in the Tube in London and that really did shake me when, I don’t know where it was but I remember getting out of the Tube somewhere in London and there were people all still sleeping on the platforms and stuff like that. I believe during the night when trains weren’t running they were sleeping down where the tracks were but they were certainly on the surface of the, you know of the platforms and stuff like this. And they weren’t just females and children either. They were adult males. Yeah.
TO: And are there any bombing raids that you remember?
PO: Raids? No. What do you mean by raids?
TO: Well —
PO: I mean if you talk about sort of a Fokker Wulf coming screaming down at zero feet and dropping a bomb and firing its cannon at the same time I remember that. I remember, I mean we were, I was in, at the time I was in a light anti-aircraft, a mobile light anti-aircraft unit and we got sent from Derby to Hull. To a place called Paull and we had there we found there were two three inch 1940, 1914 ack ack guns. Real old things and we knew nothing about them. It was a question of getting the book out and learn. And one day on a pleasant afternoon we were standing to, there was a raid forecast and along came a single Heinkel 111 and we stood and looked at it and did nothing to it and it shot down a couple of balloons and went safely on its way and you know we never fired a shot. Then another day we had a raid and the weather was clamped down like billy-o and we couldn’t see a darned thing. But one night I remember there was a raid on and it was night time and the bombs were coming closer and closer and closer to us and as he let his bombs go sort of and it was approaching where we were the bombs were coming down close and they stopped just before they got to our position else we would have been the recipients of maybe his last bomb. I don’t know. But no, I mean another time an aircraft came up in northern Scotland actually and very very low down, dropped his single bomb and it skidded along the ground and bounced over our hut and lay there inert in the field for about a week before the Royal Engineers came and took it away. But as for bombing raids again as I say I mean the night my hometown was being blitzed I was in, we were guarding a radio location station in Lincolnshire. Quiet as anything. My parents were at risk and I was safe as houses. The civilians caught more of the Blitz as it were than well than I did anyhow. Yeah.
TO: And what else do you remember about being in anti-aircraft units?
PO: Well, we were as I say I had you know sort of fourteen guys and a gun and that was our little world and we ran it. I ran it and you know the officers would come maybe once a week or an officer if only to give us our pay and go away, you know. We were very autonomous in that respect. As long as the work was being done and when they came you know we were all sort of proved to be efficient that was it. Again, you see I didn’t belong to, I’ve never belonged to a big unit ever. I mean after the war I certainly didn’t belong to a big unit. You know. The work I was doing was very specialist in one way and another. No. It’s, I mean even on the squadron you know I really only knew the people in my flight you know. But it, it was we were just doing a job. I mean it sounds silly doesn’t it? Fighting a war but my war was very different to somebody in the infantry who was plodding through mud and eating when they could and all this sort of thing. I had an easy war. I really did. Looking back it was very easy.
TO: And did the Army ever interact with the Home Guard?
PO: No. No. I mean when in ’40 when invasion because of course one night we did get Cromwell was the code word. In fact, I’ve got some papers here that say all about it in one way or another. Original documents I’ve got here believe you me. But we used to regularly see the Home Guard putting horse, putting carts and things across the road as roadblocks in the distance where we were but we never saw anything or had anything to do with the Home Guard at all. No.
TO: And can you tell me about when you were stationed at RAF bases?
PO: Yes. The food was good. We had, we were on aircrew rations of course which was different to other people’s rations. I mean the one thing we used to get was we used to get milk which wasn’t available to the normal RAF guys you know. Engineers or whatever. Plotters or whatever they were. And we used to get a ration of, a weekly ration of raisins or you know dried fruit and we certainly had a ration of eggs so you know it sounds [laughs] but the food was good. That was the great thing and of course we, we slept in beds and we didn’t have sheets there. We only, the only time I ever had sheets in the Army was when I was at EFTS. Elementary Flying Training School and there we did nothing. I mean we used to have civilian women would come in and clean the billet and lay the fire and you know we were cosseted like nobody’s business at EFTS. But other than that on squadron we just used to troop along to the mess and get our meals and you know night flying suppers and stuff like that. It was good. Yeah. I’ll tell you [laughs] I had a good war. Yeah.
TO: What was your everyday routine at these bases?
PO: Well, we used to parade and basically find out more or less what we were doing that day. I mean you know we spent our time in the main flying, you know and that was sort of we’d, doing circuits and bumps and stuff like that. I mean we didn’t have many lectures. I’m sure we did do. I mean we learned or were taught all about booby traps and stuff like that you know and different sorts of warfare I suppose. No. It was just almost a 9 till 5 job to us really. Very uninteresting.
TO: And can you tell me about your flight training please?
PO: Yeah. My first flight was the same for everybody I suppose in that I was taken on a flight in an aircraft, in a Tiger Moth and shown where the controls were and one thing and another. As I say I was at Elementary Flying Training School there and then one day the, my instructor we landed and he got out of the cockpit and did his straps up and I thought what’s he doing? And he just said to me, ‘Right. Off you go.’ And that was it because we had to solo. If we didn’t solo within ten hours then you were out and in actual fact I soloed at about eight hours twenty minutes or some damned thing that seems to lodge in my mind. Yeah. I mean some people just couldn’t, couldn’t do that so of course they left. I mean you know they really were very gung-ho on who they kept and who they didn’t. I mean, but at Elementary Flying Training School I mean we used to do run marches. You know, i.e. could be ten miles in an hour and forty minutes in full kit once a week. You know. We were, we were fit and reasonably tough I suppose. On one occasion a guy called Geoff Higgins and I decided it was, it was bitterly cold and I think we’d come out of a lecture and we were going back to our huts to get all our kit on to go on a run march and he and I decided it was too miserable and cold. We weren’t going to go so we sneaked off into a hangar where there were men in aircraft and one thing and another and had a cup of tea with the people who were there. And then eventually of course we got caught out. We weren’t on parade and we got hauled before the camp comm and put on a charge actually. The only time I’d ever been put on a charge and we got away with it. The guy thought that we were very near the end of our training so he said, ‘Well, report to the police at extra times for the next seven days.’ And that’s what we did but that was flying training was good. I mean we did it. Yeah, we did all the things that one would do at Flying Training School including aerobatics and stuff like this to make you into something that was more or less a pilot. But and then left there as I say and went to glider training at Stoke Orchard and flew Hotspurs. I’ve flown in every military, every military glider there is. I’ve flown Hotspur, Horsa, Hadrian or Waco and Hamilcar. Yeah. So I’ve quite, quite a few memories of different places and different things you know but I didn’t like the Wacos. They were cheap and cheerful. I wasn’t happy with them I must admit.
TO: So, do you remember your first solo flight?
PO: Yes. I did. I took off and I was talking to myself like nobody’s business and the only thing that I do remember is that as I came into land because the instructor’s weight wasn’t in the aircraft the aircraft was a lot lighter. I mean that was a bit [laughs] I landed first time at least so I taxied back to where we came from. But the following day I had a CFI, Chief Flying Instructor test and that day I took off with him and as we came in to land I thought right I’m going to land just at the edge of that the airfield. It was a grassed airfield. I thought, yeah I’m alright here. And I was on the glide path and there was a cottage at the end of my approach and as I got lower and lower I thought I’m just going to miss the top of that cottage. And I thought no. This sounds daft, I thought no, I’m going to hit the chimney. And it got to where I thought no I’m going to hit the, hit the cottage and the chief flying instructor said, ‘I’ve got it.’ And you know put full power on it and climbed away and went around again and I thought oh I’ve really, I’ve shot it there. I’m, you know, I’m for the chop now. But no, it didn’t happen. But that was funny. It was almost as if I was transfixed by this cottage. You know the cottage was safe on the ground and I wanted to be on the ground safe. It sounds silly doesn’t it? But yeah. God knows what I was thinking really. Other than that I remember once hitting an air pocket in oh it was in [pause] it was in a Waco. Yeah. We hit an air pocket and must have dropped about fifty feet and all the muck and everything was flying through the air there. You know, the bottom dropped out of the world on that one but we recovered in the normal way you know. Yeah. It was just flying. Just flying.
TO: So had you, when did you volunteer to be in the airborne?
PO: In 1942. The end of 1942 was when I volunteered and at the beginning of ’43 was when I went for my aircrew medical and you know, all the theory. All the maths and you know common sense questions that these people asked one way or another but so it would be, I mean I wasn’t accepted until the beginning of ’43 so it was fairly early days you know. And then I went from there to depot as I say. We lost people at, out of all the volunteers you know on the initial thing we lost people. Then I went to depot where there were a hundred of us and only thirty of us left there to be in the airborne forces. And then to Flying School where we lost other people who couldn’t fly or hadn’t got the wherewithal or couldn’t stand the discipline and you know so we were being, our numbers were decreasing. Well, you could almost draw a graph of the numbers of us left. It was just pure luck I think. I was just bloody minded and you know tried to keep my nose clean and be the grey man as it were. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And can you tell me about the combat training for airborne troops?
PO: Well, I think that I suppose it almost broke into two. I mean we carried, the glider pilot regiment carried more troops into battle than parachuted in. There’s no two ways about that. Their training would be very different to ours I suppose. I mean we, we were almost like just delivery drivers in a way. I mean okay we were you know on the ground we became basically infantry so I mean but there wasn’t, I don’t think there was many weapons that we couldn’t, you know we were taught enemy weapons as well as our own weapons you know. So you know if you lost, if you lost your canon you could go and pick up somebody else’s canon and know how to use it sort of thing. But tactics and stuff like that I don’t recall. We did do urban fighting in one of the derelict areas of London where we did [pause] I think putting [mouseholes] through walls and stuff like this so you could get from one place to another without exposing yourself and street fighting sort of thing. You know. Tactics. But never had to use them. But I suppose it was just building our knowledge up and our confidence in ourselves and the system. Yeah.
TO: And what do you remember about the street fighting?
PO: It was good fun [laughs] It was good fun. Okay, we got dirty a lot of running around and one thing and another. I don’t remember any debriefings or anything like that. I really don’t. It was we just went up to London for a day and a half and, you know and got stuck in. Yeah.
TO: And do you remember the first time you fired a weapon in training?
PO: That would have been before the war. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. They made darned certain that you had your rifle stuck well into your shoulder because it was the kick of it and that was it. Yeah. I would be about nineteen, I suppose the first time I fired a weapon. Would be ’39. In 1939. Yeah. Yeah. I never fired a weapon as a boy soldier so it must have been 1939. Yeah. And that would be on a rifle range, you know. At Wedgnock in Warwickshire. Yeah. That’s where it would have been. I mean I can’t say I honestly remember it you know bang on but that must have been the first time I ever fired a weapon. But as I said you know the weapon of my choice was a Bren gun because you could fire that from the hip or anywhere else. I mean it’s the same with the Thompson sub-machine gun. That was quite a cumbersome weapon but you could you know aim it or you could just squirt it as it were from the hip. It was quite a, quite a weapon that. Yeah. But I never did fire well we had in the battalion we had an anti-tank platoon and they had what was known as the boy’s anti-tank rifle. That had got a hell of a kick on it I believe but I never fired that at all either. I wasn’t in that platoon anyhow. No. But yeah. You know, as I say it was just how life was I’m afraid. You know. I mean it must be boring for you in a way and well [pause]
TO: Can you tell me more about when you were at RAF bases and went on flying the bombers?
PO: Well, again I, I was a little subunit in a big unit and around an airfield would be you know probably four or five guns. Where my canon was was on the almost on the perimeter track outside the airfield actually but almost on the perimeter track. And you know that’s when I used to sort of sneak away and scrounge flights. I mean I don’t know how many other people that ever did it but I certainly did. I mean the one flight I remember we were coming in to land. It was in a Whitley bomber and as we approached the airfield around the perimeter track was somebody on a bicycle and the pilot said to me watch this and we were coming down to land and this guy was on his bike and he looked up and looked at us and saw us coming in to land below and of course he was cycling along and we edged along with him [laughs] So the next time he looked we were still aiming virtually at him. And in the end when we flew over him I’m damned certain he fell off his bicycle because believe you me we were only probably ten feet above his head when we, when we actually crossed on to, on to the grass airfield you know. If there had been a runway there would have been a certain length of time when he would have been at risk but because it was a grass runway as he was cycling along we were drifting with him. So that was funny that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh dear oh dear. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was just life I suppose you know. I mean good God. I mean I’ve had a tremendous life. My wartime life and post wartime you know. Good God. I’ve done everything from dining with royalty to I’m a Freeman of the city of Coventry. I’m an honorary alderman of Cheshire and I’ve got I’ve had a great life. I really have. Yeah. Yeah. As I say the Army Air Corps have turned up trumps one way and another. Yeah.
TO: And the crews you flew with were they just doing training flights?
PO: What? When I was flying in the Whitley’s and that? No, it was all night flying tests. You know, the aircraft were being prepped for, for night flying for these are Operational Training Units. One was at Kinloss and one was at Lossiemouth. I think it was 19 and 20 OTUs. I seem to recall the numbers but you know, I mean they were clapped out aircraft in the main you know. They were ex-operational aircraft that had been downgraded because I mean the number of crashes and malfunctions that took place we seemed to have funerals every week of people who had either flown into a hillside or had crashed or the aircraft had let them down or they made pilot error nonsense. It was when I think back it was a bit dicey really. I mean they’d all got parachutes. I hadn’t got a parachute and I just would have gone kneel out between the two pilots and look at what was going on and enjoy the ride. Yeah.
TO: Did any crews object to you being on board the planes?
PO: Oh no. I mean I think anybody who would have objected would have said no to my request you know. ‘Can I come along with you?’ Sort of thing. ‘No.’ They’d be very definite I think. Whereas the others would say, ‘Well, yeah. Okay. Get in.’ That sort of thing. Very casual. Very casual you know. Not like today. Good God today you couldn’t get near the aircraft today I reckon.
TO: So where did you sit when you were in these bombers?
PO: I didn’t. I knelt or stood between the pilots or knelt between them and whatnot. I didn’t just sit in the fuselage. I wanted to see where we were going. You know. Oh yes. Yeah. Oh yes. It’s, I mean it wasn’t a lot of room and it wasn’t exactly comfortable but you know I was flying. I was, you know I was getting this free ride sort of thing out over the sea and then over parts of Scotland here and there sort of thing you know. Over the mountains. Yeah. Oh yes. It was good fun. Good fun.
TO: And do you remember any other times when you were in the bombers or any other stories from there?
PO: Not really. No. Not really. No. No. No. I think as I say I did it so often one way and another. But as for incidents. No. As I say the funny one was being in the Whitley and drifting along with this cyclist. He was a sergeant actually because I could see the badges of rank on his, on his uniform you know. It was just so amusing and obviously the pilot whether he was a sergeant or an officer I don’t know but the first pilot as I say he said to me, ‘Just watch this.’ [laughs] Yeah. Mischievous. Mischievous.
TO: And can you tell me about the first time you flew a glider?
PO: Well, the first time I flew a glider would be a Hotspur and the only thing I really recall about it was that the amount of noise on tow and the silence when we came off tow where we were no longer being dragged along by this Miles Master aircraft. We were in free flight and it was just so quiet and then sort of that was, that was it. That was my first recollection of flying in a military glider. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And how did the flying a glider compare to powered aircraft?
PO: The only difference is if you make a mistake with a powered aircraft you can open the taps and go around again. With a, with a glider you’re committed. The minute you come off tow whether you like it or not you’re committed. It’s a question of sort of well you, how can I put it? You know where your landing zone is and it’s a question of getting into it. How you do, how you do it is down to you but there’s no, no ooops I made a mistake here or, I could do with a bit more height because you ain’t going to get no more height. It’s you’re on your way down. You really are. Oh yes. Yeah.
TO: How much room did a glider need to land?
PO: Well, I mean at one stage we were flying the Hamilcar and the, at the end of the runway there was like a bit of a cliff and we were flying over the cliff you know to land and that was the direction of the landing and there were probably five or six Hamilcars you know. We weren’t the only one flying that day and at the side of the runway was a caravan that controlled the take offs with an Aldis lamp and we started, I don’t know how it started but we started to see who could land in the shortest possible time and we got to the stage where we were banned because we were almost landing right on the end of the runway at Fairford. Yeah. Was it Fairford? No. It wasn’t Fairford. That must have been Tarrant. Yeah. So I mean we would land and put the brakes on and as I say we finished up being coming to a halt before we got to the caravan which was controlling the runway. It got it was, it got dangerous shall I say I mean because we were beginning to drop down. Get as much speed as we could and drop down below the level of the airfield and then just pop up and plonk it down. But normal landing I don’t know. A hundred and fifty yards maybe and that was it you’d come to a grinding halt and of course you’d got brakes. You got brakes on you know on both the Horsa and the Hamilcar. They’d got brakes so you know you could slow yourself down as it were.
TO: When you were flying a glider during the Rhine crossing was it possible to steer away from anti-aircraft fire or did you just have to keep going?
PO: Well, on, on tows you’d no choice. It’s down to tug aircraft and your attitude towards where you are on the end of the rope as it were. So there was no choice. In free flight yeah. You could I suppose go left or right or you know try to avoid anything but frankly there was so much of it anyhow that you know you could go from the frying pan in to the fire if you started trying to get clever I think. We were, we were more interested in trying to get down onto our proper landing zone which we’d identified you know and get down and get the load out of the aircraft. But it didn’t happen of course because then we got clobbered.
TO: So during the Rhine crossing was it an anti-tank gun your aircraft was carrying?
PO: It’s the seventeen pounder, yeah anti-tank basically anti-tank. It was a quite a weapon. It was a big weapon. Yeah. A big weapon. Yeah.
TO: And did you meet the tug crews before you took off?
PO: We, yes, oh yes we’d meet them at both the briefing and you know just immediately prior to the op you know. We wished one another all the best sort of thing and you know, ‘We’ll see you back at the airfield in a few days time.’ Sort of thing you know. But that didn’t particularly happen. But yeah. I mean but we didn’t live with the aircrews. We lived totally separate from the RAF. We were, we were under a different sort of discipline almost you could say where the RAF guys were both officers, warrant officers and sergeants and whatnot, the aircrews and they lived their lives. The only time we’d come up against them really other than you know hooking onto their aircraft would be at meal times and you know in the RAF mess as it were where we ate of course. We weren’t segregated for eating or anything. We used all the RAF facilities but we lived separately from the RAF. I supposed that way we were almost like an attached unit as it were. We were bolted on to the aerodrome as it were. I mean we could have lived anywhere really but we lived on the RAF station in Nissen huts and the usual facilities as it were.
TO: And were you towed by a Halifax during the Rhine crossing?
PO: Yeah. Yes. That was the only thing that would pull us off the ground. Yeah. I mean a Dakota couldn’t possibly manage it. It hadn’t got enough power by any manner of means. I mean, as I said to you earlier we never flew with less than nine thousand pounds of ballast but I think take-off weight was about thirty seven thousand pounds when, when we were loaded. It was you know quite a heavy load. Yeah. We were. We were overloaded. There’s no two ways about it. You know. People would pop in extra ammunition or you know half a cookhouse if they could sort of thing you know. So our weight was in excess really of permitted weight but you know, it was the aircraft was strong enough. I mean it was well built. My God they were well built. Well, the floor was well built. Let’s put it that way. Yeah.
TO: Did you enjoy flying gliders?
PO: Yeah. It was. Yeah. It was a good job. You know. It was a good job and you know we were young and we had a lot of life. We were alive and life was good. And I suppose in a way we almost worked on the principle of you know tomorrow you may die sort of thing so you know we’d do things you wouldn’t. We’d enjoy life to the maximum in the position that we were in. Flying was that’s what we got paid five bob a day for. So you know keep flying and keep taking the money sort of thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Enjoy? I don’t know if that’s a word I would use. It was just something we did and you know that was it, you know. No. It might sound strange to you that but yeah.
TO: Did you ever wish you were doing a different role?
PO: Oh no. No. No. No. I can’t ever say that that ever, that has ever happened to me in military or civilian life. I’m a great believer in if you don’t enjoy what you’re doing get out. I wouldn’t wish I would do something about it which in my civilian life I have done. You know, I’ve just told my superiors in one place I wasn’t going to work for them anymore and I just walked out. No. My desk was left and I just walked. Completely walked out. Yeah. Oh no. I didn’t hanker to do anything else. What I was doing was what I wanted to do and as long as I was happy doing it that was me. Yeah. Oh yes.
TO: And what, what regiments and division were you in?
PO: Well, we were because we were a heavy lift squadron I mean there was a 1st Airborne Division and the 6th Airborne Division. We lifted both. So we were that way we weren’t in either the 1st or the 6th. I don’t know frankly where we fitted in to that you know. Sort of we lifted whatever. Whether they were Poles or what. I mean you know I mean [pause] what was the question sorry?
TO: Which regiments and divisions were you in?
PO: Oh well, I mean as I say we lifted Royal Artillery guys. So others would lift Royal Engineers or whatnot you know but we lifted as I say Royal Artillery or an armoured regiment you know. Tank. So that would be Royal Armoured Corps but I never flew a tank so I wouldn’t know.
TO: And what did you think of the tanks that would have gone in the Hamilcars?
PO: Well, they were made, they were sort of modified so they could get them into the thing. Getting them out operationally was you were supposed to come to a halt. I mean this is only what I know now. You’d come to a halt. Open the nose, lower the, lower the oleo legs and let it drive out. In actual fact what did happen was the minute they were on the floor they drove straight through the nose anyhow. They didn’t bother to hang about sort of thing. Yeah. But as I say I never flew, never flew a tank. I never came in to contact with the Armoured Corps at all. Never.
TO: I think you mentioned yesterday you were, were you something like interacting with Americans at some points.
PO: Yeah. Oh yeah. I was with the 9th Air Force. Yeah. With Troop Carrier Command 9th Air Force. That was, that was quite a jolly that. There were five. Five of us and I mean I went to more than one mass drop prior to D-Day. I mean I can’t say I was in, had knowledge of secret stuff but there was so much the Americans would leave papers about that we would covet or we weren’t supposed to see and their security at times was pretty grim or pretty poor. I mean the day that we got a whole delivery of Purple Hearts and you’d think I mean and I’m talking about a box about four foot by four foot by four foot full of Purple Heart medals. Who’s going to, who’s going to be the recipients of these because every American who got wounded of course got a Purple Heart medal. That sort of thing. But, yeah. It was, it was good. Yeah. Yes. I mean I flew all over the place. To Greenham Common. Oh God. You name an airfield that the US troops were on and I’ve been there. I really have. I mean if we couldn’t get, if we couldn’t get there by jeep in, I mean we would say to somebody ‘Where are you?’ And they’d say thirty or forty miles away from where you are now and we’d think well forty miles. We could do that in an hour because we used to thrash our jeeps. We really did. There was only one speed with a jeep and that was flat out. They were great fun to drive. But yeah, and then as I say Gale came, Windy Gale and Browning came at one time. But as I say Eisenhower was at one of the big drops just prior to D-Day. But life with the Americans was, that was a real sort of, well I mean we just seemed to do things. You know. Nothing particularly outlandish. We seemed to do more travelling than anything else. That was good and the food was good.
TO: And can you describe the inside of a Hamilcar?
PO: Well, to get into the cockpit you went into the, into a door I’ll call it on the port side. You went across the cargo hold which would be about nine feet I suppose. Ten feet wide I suppose. Up a wooden ladder that was on the wall opposite you on the, on the starboard side. Get out on to the top of the fuselage. Walk along the top of the fuselage and get in the cockpit and it was a tandem cockpit so you know one pilot and then another one with both with the same controls and instruments such as they were and that was it. They were cavernous. They really were quite big. I mean they were big. I mean I don’t know if you know the dimensions of them but oh yeah. I mean the cockpit was about nineteen feet above the ground. Well, you know people think of gliders, you say, ‘I flew gliders.’ And they see sail planes. Nothing like it. Nothing like it at all. They were huge. They were a huge beast. They really were. They were the biggest military, British military glider. The Americans had nothing like it and the Germans I think at one time produced one that was about twice the size but it never was used. It was, you know just a dream I suppose almost. I mean I suppose we could have carried a hundred odd soldiers quite happily in a Hamilcar if it had been designated troop carrying but it wasn’t meant for troops. It was meant for bulldozers and tanks and guns and heavy heavy kit as it were. As I say it was the only heavy lift squadron we’d got.
TO: And did you hear about other events of the war like Pearl Harbour?
PO: No. No. No. No. We’d got enough to do with our own war I think. The war in the Far East didn’t certainly with me didn’t register at all. That didn’t register until after the European war had finished. Then we started getting worried about going to the Far East with what we were being told one way and another and as I say at that time we were then converting onto these Waco gliders which of course were out in the Far East. Yeah.
TO: And did you hear about the Battle of El Alamein?
PO: All that I remember about Alamein was that that was probably the first battle that we seem to have won. And that’s where you, like the question you asked yesterday that’s where sort of Montgomery came to the fore. You know. We’d actually won something, you know. Before that it was I mean the war in the desert used to go up and down the coast of Africa like nobody’s business you know. We’d win a load and then we’d retreat. Go back again and retreat. Oh dear oh dear. I mean we were aware of Tobruk and stuff like that and I met the odd guy who came home on leave from Africa but no. The war, I mean the only involvement that the regiment got was of course was invading Sicily and that was a debacle. That really was. I mean some of the guys were in the water for hours. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, you’ve got another five minutes so make the most of it.
TO: Okay. Did you hear about battles happening in Russia?
PO: No. No. No. No, the only, I had two [pause] I had what was it? I was in Edinburgh and the Usher Hall at an orchestral concert and a load of Russians came in there as guests. Those were the first Russians I ever saw. And then I was in Goch in Germany and I met a Russian female. She was the size of a brick toilet. She really was. She was massive. She’d been a slave labourer but the Russians, no, had no, I mean everybody was aware of Stalingrad and stuff like that you know but it was somehow that wasn’t our war, you know. The Russians were fighting the Germans over there. We’d got them on our doorsteps so to speak you know. The Germans. The Germans were enough for us let alone fighting the Russians. Although it looked like we were going to fight the Russians after the war finished I must admit. That didn’t go off thank God. No.
TO: What’s your best memory of the war?
PO: I suppose looking back I was very very privileged to meet some very brave men. Just ordinary guys who were really [pause] you know I’m a mere shadow of those guys. It was a privilege to have lived and served alongside some really super guys. They weren’t warriors but boy when the dice were thrown they were there to pick up the bits. No. They were great. They really were. Yeah. I was, I was privileged to know these people and to say that they were friends of mine sort of thing you know. Or compatriots at least, I mean. And so many of them went on in civilian street to make real names for themselves too you know. I mean one became the chief of the Thames Valley Police Force. Another one, Potts he was a professor of, he worked for one of the massive companies you know. Another one became the COE, CEO of another multinational you know. They were great guys. But as far as the soldiery was concerned they were all friends, friends shall I say but yeah. I was just privileged to even rub along shoulders with them and that’s really my biggest memory I suppose. Nothing specific as it were. No particular point.
TO: And what’s your worst memory of the war?
PO: I don’t have one. I don’t have one. No. No, I mean I know people they’re dead now I must admit but I’ve known people who have flashbacks to incidents and things like that and you know disturbed nights of and I’ve never had any of that you know. It just washed over me. I’m either too thick or my pain threshold is just so high that I don’t recognise anything. No. I’ve no, no terrible memories. My memories are of meeting some lovely people and you know you tend I suppose in life you tend to put the horrible things into a separate box in total you know and we’ve got enough problems of today without harping on yesterday’s problems anyhow. Yeah. So there you go. Right. Well, you’ve had your time so is there anything else you really want?
TO: Just one last question. What do you think of war films?
PO: Of war films? Well, there’s a thing on telly at the moment called, “Who Dares Wins,” and I saw the first bit of it and I thought what a load of rubbish. Because the SAS, I only know two guys who were in the Special Air Service and it’s very very different. What do I think of these war films? Okay, I certainly [pause] there are some. I mean. “A Bridge Too Far,” which was the story of Arnhem basically. That was very very true to life without a shadow of a doubt with the exception that you know there was an American influence which didn’t happen in actual fact. But that’s so they could sell it to America of course. But some of the war films are, they are just so gung-ho and impossible. Impossible some of them. They make money for somebody I suppose.
TO: Is there anything you want to add about your experiences that you feel is very important?
PO: No. No. As I say I’m, I’m just one of thousands who I’ll say survived the war. I never got wounded. I never got hospitalised or anything like that. I just was the same as thousands of others. I was just very lucky in the units I went to and in my own little world I was happy and I look back and think how lucky. Well, I am. I’m an extremely lucky guy. But in total, in total I really am a very lucky guy. If I were to die tomorrow I couldn’t grumble. I would because I’ve got too much to do but, no. Life has just been very kind to me and I’ve survived. I’ve met some lovely people. The world is full of lovely people. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve met some super folk. That’s been a privilege. Yeah. So there you go sir.
TO: Thank you so much. Thank
PO: Not at all.
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Interview with Peter Offord Davies. Part Two
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Tom Ozel
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2022-11-06
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Sound
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01:08:45 audio recording
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ADaviesPO221106-AV
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
British Army
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Description
An account of the resource
Peter volunteered in 1942 and was accepted early in 1943. He outlines the combat training they received. Talks of the rations he received early in the war and on the RAF station. He describes the autonomy of his anti-aircraft unit. Reflecting on bombing raids, he feels civilians suffered more than he did. He never belonged to a big unit.
Peter describes his daily routine, flight training at the Elementary Flying Training School and glider training at RAF Stoke Orchard. He flew every military glider: Hotspur, Horsa, Hadrian, Waco and Hamilcar. Peter recounts his first solo and sneaking flights with aircrews carrying out night flying tests at RAF Kinloss and RAF Lossiemouth. He also describes his first glider flight and the interior of a Hamilcar.
They met tug crews prior to operations, sharing the mess, but living separately. The Halifax towed them on the Rhine crossing when they carried a 17-pounder anti-tank gun.
As a heavy lift squadron, they lifted both the 1st Airborne Division and 6th Airborne Division, lifting Royal Artillery or Royal Armoured Corps.
During his time with the United States 9th Airforce with Troop Carrier Command, Peter went to more than one mass drop prior to D-Day. He saw “Windy” Gale, Browning and Eisenhower.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Dorset
Germany
France
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sally Coulter
Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
aircrew
bombing
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
perception of bombing war
pilot
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2247/40854/LRossB1610215v1.2.pdf
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ross, Bernard
Description
An account of the resource
37 items. This collection concerns Warrant Officer Bernard Ross (1610215, Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs and service record. Ross flew as an air gunner in Royal Air Force Transport Command, towing gliders, dropping supplies to resistance groups and carrying paratroops. He also took part in some bombing operations to Germany.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Paul Ross and Amanda Burnham, and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-07-25
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Ross, B
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bernard Ross' observers and air gunners flying log book
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LRossB1610215v1
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Description
An account of the resource
Bernard Ross’ Air Gunner’s Flying Log Book covering the period from 05 of April 1943 to 22 April 1945. Detailing his flying training and operations flown as Air Gunner. He was stationed at RAF Penrhos (9 OAFU), RAF Seighford (30 OTU), RAF Thruxton (297 Squadron), RAF Hurn, RAF Brize Norton and RAF Earls Colne (296 Sqn) and RAF Tilstock (1665 HCU). Aircraft flown in were Blenheim, Wellington, Whitley, Albemarle, Oxford, Stirling and Halifax. He flew on two night bombing operations with 296 Squadron and and 22 glider towing/parachute drops and SOE operations with 296 Squadron and 297 Squadron, including D-Day, Arnhem and the Rhine Crossing. Bombing targets were Gravenbosch and Rees. His pilots on operations were Warrant Officer Beetham, Pilot Officer Godden and Flying Officer Fraser.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-04
1943-05
1943-06
1943-07
1943-08
1943-09
1943-10
1943-11
1943-12
1945-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-14
1945-03
1945-04
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Essex
England--Staffordshire
England--Hampshire
England--Dorset
England--Lincolnshire
North Africa
Tunisia
Tunisia--Sidi Ameur
Germany
Germany--Rees
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Terry Hancock
1665 HCU
296 Squadron
297 Squadron
30 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
aircrew
Albemarle
Blenheim
Halifax
Hamilcar
Heavy Conversion Unit
Horsa
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Earls Colne
RAF Hurn
RAF Penrhos
RAF Seighford
RAF Thruxton
RAF Tilstock
Special Operations Executive
Stirling
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44286/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120079.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44286/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120080.2.jpg
fb655140fac2d445997935d52104d438
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jones TJ. Aircraft photographs
Description
An account of the resource
129 aircraft recognition photographs.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Jones, PW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hamilcar
Description
An account of the resource
View from rear of an airborne General Aircraft Limited GAL. 49 Hamilcar glider.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
British Army
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MJonesTJ184141-220105-120079, MJonesTJ184141-220105-120080
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Hamilcar
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44557/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120169.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44557/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120170.1.jpg
b481f8d2f4ed7c0b238cdb98a49c08c2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jones TJ. Aircraft photographs
Description
An account of the resource
129 aircraft recognition photographs.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Jones, PW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hamilcar
Description
An account of the resource
View from below front of an airborne General Aircraft Limited GAL. 49 Hamilcar glider.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
British Army
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MJonesTJ184141-220105-120169, MJonesTJ184141-220105-120170
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Hamilcar
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44637/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120257.1.jpg
e9c5535bf3787afa4a805c7ad300f96d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2566/44637/MJonesTJ184141-220105-120258.1.jpg
0217b90f1ea2f0bc2dc98a357166ef1e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jones TJ. Aircraft photographs
Description
An account of the resource
129 aircraft recognition photographs.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Jones, PW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hamilcar
Description
An account of the resource
Side view of an airborne General Aircraft Limited GAL. 49 Hamilcar glider.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
British Army
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MJonesTJ184141-220105-120257, MJonesTJ184141-220105-120258
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Hamilcar
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2416/45329/MAbbottER44877-230718-020001.1.jpg
5a05a4f71904f389d5d0e07c743f8f66
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2416/45329/MAbbottER44877-230718-020002.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2416/45329/MAbbottER44877-230718-020003.1.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Abbott, E R
Ronnie Abbott
Description
An account of the resource
30 items. The collection concerns Squadron Leader E R "Ronnie" Abbott DSO DFM (b. 1913 - 1992, 44877 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, correspondence, documents, objects, photographs and an <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2608">Album of 70 pages.</a><br /><br />He enlisted in 1929 and trained at RAF Halton serving as an engine fitter in the Middle East 1934 -1936. He became a prisoner of war after being posted missing flying in a Battle in 50 Squadron. Post war he served at RAF Swinderby and Khartoum.<br /><br />The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Lindsey Sutton and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-05-10
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Abbott, ER
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Programme for Flying Demonstration by Aircraft of the Home Commands RAF
Description
An account of the resource
11 Flying events at RAF Halton.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
RAF Halton
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1947-04-18
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two double sided printed sheets
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MAbbottER44877-230718-020001, MAbbottER44877-230718-020002, MAbbottER44877-230718-020003
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1947-04-18
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
Beaufighter
C-47
Halifax
Hamilcar
Hornet Moth
Horsa
Lancaster
Lincoln
Meteor
Mosquito
RAF Halton
Spitfire
Sunderland