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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/27/183/PFilliputtiA16010094.1.jpg
bdeea6f2d023912b9874d463b528102d
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Filiputti, Angiolino
Angiolino Filiputti
Alfonsino Filiputti
A Filiputti
Description
An account of the resource
127 items. The collection consists of a selection of works created by Alfonsino ‘Angiolino’ Filiputti (1924-1999). A promising painter from childhood, Angiolino was initially fascinated by marine subjects but his parents’ financial hardships forced an end to his formal education after completing primary school. Thereafter, he took up painting as an absorbing pastime. Angiolino depicted some of the most dramatic and controversial aspects of the Second World War as seen from the perspective of San Giorgio di Nogaro, a small town in the Friuli region of Italy. Bombings, events reported by newspapers, broadcast by the radio or spread by eyewitnesses, became the subject of colourful paintings, in which news details were embellished by his own rich imaginings. Each work was accompanied by long pasted-on captions, so as to create fascinating works in which text and image were inseparable. After the war, however, interest in his work declined and Angiolino grew increasingly disenchanted as he lamented the lack of recognition accorded his art, of which he was proud.
The work of Angiolino Filiputti was rediscovered thanks to the efforts of Pierluigi Visintin (San Giorgio di Nogaro 1946 – Udine 2008), a figurehead of the Friulan cultural movement, author, journalist, screenwriter and translator of Greek and Latin classical works into the Friulan language. 183 temperas were eventually displayed in 2005 under the title "La guerra di Angiolino" (“Angiolino’s war”.) The exhibition toured many cities and towns, jointly curated by the late Pierluigi Visintin, the art critic Giancarlo Pauletto and Flavio Fabbroni, member of the Istituto Friulano per la Storia del Movimento di Liberazione (Institute for the history of the resistance movement in the Friuli region).
The IBCC Digital Archive would like to express its gratitude to Anna and Stefano Filiputti, the sons of Angiolino Filipputi, for granting permission to reproduce his works. The BCC Digital Archive is also grateful to Alessandra Bertolissi, wife of Pierluigi Visintin, Alessandra Kerservan, head of the publishing house Kappa Vu and Pietro Del Frate, mayor of San Giorgio di Nogaro.
Originals are on display at
Biblioteca comunale di San Giorgio di Nogaro
Piazza Plebiscito, 2
33058 San Giorgio di Nogaro (UD)
ITALY
++39 0431 620281
info.biblioteca@comune.sangiorgiodinogaro.ud.it
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Filiputti, A-S
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
B-25 bombers attack the SAICI chemical plant at Torviscosa
Description
An account of the resource
Two aircraft attack an industrial complex surrounded by a canal. An explosion has occurred behind one of the two main buildings. Flames and smoke can be seen whilst the bombing aircraft ascends into the sky. The second aircraft is flying towards the observer. The rest of the complex appears undamaged. On the canal to the right of the picture, a barge is moored next to a crane.
Label reads “236”; signed by the author; caption reads “24-25 FEBBRAIO 1945. TORVISCOSA UD, aliquote di bimotori “Mitchell” attaccano con bombe, lo stabilimento della SAICI”.
Caption translates as: “24-25 February 1945, Torviscosa (Udine province). Formations of twin-engine B-25 Mitchell aircraft drop bombs over the SAICI factory.”
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PFilliputtiA16010094
Language
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ita
Creator
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Angiolino Filiputti
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Francesca Campani
Alessandro Pesaro
Helen Durham
Giulia Banti
Maureen Clarke
Subject
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World War (1939-1945)
Bombing, Aerial
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Format
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One tempera on paper, pasted on mount board
Spatial Coverage
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Italy--Torviscosa
Italy
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-02-24
1945-02-25
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Artwork
arts and crafts
B-25
bombing
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/250/3398/PEllisMW1701.1.jpg
fe0a9e98f23972969b5aa03159b3c69e
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/250/3398/AEllisMW170703.1.mp3
9a9db74325a0256a11c8b95b9a2f864e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ellis, Mary Wilkins
Mary Wilkins Ellis
Mary W Ellis
Mary Ellis
M W Ellis
M Ellis
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Mary Wilkins Ellis (1917 - 2018). Mary Ellis was an Air Transport Auxiliary pilot.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Ellis, MW
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 3rd of July 2017 and I’m in Sandown with Mary Wilkins Ellis who was a delivery pilot during the war and has a variety of tales associated with that. So, starting off then Mary what were your earliest recollections of life.
ME: Well I come from a farm in Oxfordshire. My father was a farmer and I had three brothers. And I can remember looking at aeroplanes when I was eight, six, eight and thinking how lovely. And then Alan Cobham came along with one of his circus planes to Witney Airfield which is in Oxfordshire. Which is quite close to Brize Norton actually. And so, I had the urge to be more interested in aeroplanes more and more. And then I went for a flight with Alan Cobham’s Circus and this set me off even more. And then I talked with my Pa who also liked flying and he thought it was a good idea that I was interested in flying. And when I was at school in Burford I wasn’t very good at playing hockey so, I was allowed that hockey time to go to Witney Airfield and have a flight and that’s how I started flying aeroplanes.
CB: What age are we talking about here?
ME: We’re talking about [pause] I suppose twelve when I started flying. Well, I don’t know but it was very early on.
CB: What was the reaction of the school to your giving up hockey and going to flying?
ME: Each one was allowed to do their own thing so it didn’t register that I was flying. Other girls were doing probably far more important things but we didn’t talk about it. We just went on with our lessons during the other time.
CB: What did the other girls think about your flying? What did the other girls think about your flying?
ME: We didn’t talk about it. So I don’t know.
CB: No. Interesting. Yeah.
ME: But I learned to fly at Witney and, as I’ve just said and I was flying and I got my licence just in 1938. And then the war came and so all civil flying was stopped and I thought that’s the end of my flying life. So, I went home and I was at home doing precious little [laughs] as girls do, you know. Play tennis and all that sort of thing. And then one day I heard on the radio that girls who had licence, flight licence and were able to fly aeroplanes would they please contact the Air Transport Auxiliary because girls were badly needed to fly aeroplanes. So, I applied and I was taken on almost immediately. And I joined Air Transport Auxiliary on the 1st of October. Now, there’s another car coming. I think this is —
CB: We’ll stop there a mo.
[recording paused]
ME: To fly aeroplanes you have to be trained.
CB: Yes. So, when the radio announcement came looking for girls who had got flying experience then there was a process you went through. So you said you joined the 1st of October 1941. Then what happened?
ME: I went to Hatfield. And I was at Hatfield with three other girls who also joined at the same time and we had to — none of us had very much experience so we had to learn to be able to fly aeroplanes without any radio or any help whatsoever. And so, we were, each day we went off on cross country’s from Hatfield to learn the countryside as it was. You know. Woods here, rivers there, churches there. Something else. Like that. And then I was posted to, I was posted to cross country flight at White Waltham in December.
[pause]
CB: Yeah.
ME: And that was at White Waltham which was — White Waltham was the HQ. Did you know that?
CB: Of the ATA. Yes.
ME: And so there I had to go through all the procedures of finding out how an aeroplane works. How the undercarriages works. And what to do in emergencies. It went on and on and I had to learn about the weather conditions. Had to learn Morse code. And it really was fantastic — the amount of learning that one had to do before starting ferrying. And I was flying in the flying training. All the single aeroplanes and I was ferrying these around. And [pause] what happened next?
CB: So, at White Waltham they had a number of different aeroplanes to fly.
ME: Yes. They had a Harvard something or other. And I flew all these light aeroplanes including Hurricanes and I flew fifteen Hurricanes. And then one day I had a little chitty which said I must fly a Spitfire. Just like that. And I thought, ‘Oh my goodness. How can I do that?’ I haven’t been near one because they didn’t have any spare Spitfires at White Waltham for one to look at. And so, I was taken by taxi aircraft to Swindon. South Marston. And there —
CB: The factory.
ME: Yes. And there I — a Spitfire was, came out of the hangar and it was the one that was on my little chitty. So this, I had to fly this aeroplane. The first ferry Spitfire I’d ever flown. And in uniform, you know, when you’re very young one can look quite attractive [laughs] which is rather different today. And so, the hangar doors were opened and out came this Spitfire and I eventually climbed in. Someone put my parachute in because we always wore parachutes and then I got in myself and I thought, ‘Oh gracious me. How lovely.’ And then a chappy that was fastening my parachute and all the other things inside, he said, ‘How many of these have you flown? You look like a schoolgirl.’ And I said, ‘I haven’t flown one before. This is the very first one.’ And he simply could not believe it. And the people around, they were staggered to see this schoolgirl about to fly a Spitfire. However, I managed very well and I taxied out and took off and I got up in the air and I thought I must play with this aeroplane just a little to find out how it flies. What it can do. What I can do with it. And so I did. I flew around for quite some time and I was only going to Lyneham but it took me a long time because I was flying around in this beautiful Spitfire. I landed it at Lyneham. All was well. My taxi aeroplane was waiting for me so I got out of this Spitfire into the taxi aeroplane which took me straight back to Swindon for the second Spitfire in the same day. And they couldn’t believe it when I got there and they said, ‘Oh you’re back again.’ [laughs] I went through all this paraphernalia you do. As one does. At this time I had to do some cross country to fly to Little Rissington — which I did. And I was almost killed at that time because they were flying Oxfords and as I was going in to land I just landed and an Oxford came and landed just in front of me. I still have the letter of apology [laughs] It nearly killed me.
LS: That’s incredible.
ME: But I’m still here. So, that was the beginning of the Spitfire. As you know I flew four hundred and one Spitfires on ferry flights. So —
CB: Were they consecutive or they tended to be interspersed with others?
ME: Interspersed. I’ll show you if you want to know.
CB: Yes. I’d be interested.
ME: Are you a pilot?
CB: Yes.
[Pause. Packet rustling]
ME: These are very precious so I have to keep them.
CB: Of course.
ME: This is D-day. If you’d like to look at my book.
CB: Thank you. Just while I’m just looking at this, going back to your comment about going to South Marston, the factory, to pick up the Spitfire you then did a handling trial. How much would you throw the aeroplane around?
ME: For ten minutes I was, probably, yes, getting used to it. Marvellous.
CB: So you were doing aerobatics in it.
ME: No. We were told never to do aerobatics or fly at night.
CB: Steep turns. Were you, to what extent were you able to —
ME: Everything else.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Well you can see there were all sorts of different aeroplanes in the same day. I could fly a bomber or a Spitfire. All on the same day.
CB: I’ll stop this for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: We’re talking about the variety of planes you flew, Mary, but in the early training —
ME: No.
CB: At White Waltham they had Hurricanes there. Did you deliver many Hurricanes later?
ME: Well, it’s all in the logbook.
CB: You’ve got a variety here but the Hurricanes aren’t a major item. I’m just curious to know whether you —
ME: Well, if you give me I’ll tell you.
CB: Yeah. Because you’ve got Albacores, you’ve got Spitfire, you’ve got Wellingtons. All sorts of things in there.
ME: There you are.
CB: Oh, there we are.
ME: Those are the ones I flew.
CB: Yeah. At the back. Thank you. So, you’ve got a Tiger Moth as a starter. How did you like the Tiger Moth after what you’d been training on?
ME: I didn’t fly Tiger Moths after I’d been doing my training.
CB: Right.
ME: Silly questions.
CB: Yeah. So, we’ll stop there just for a mo.
[recording paused]
ME: Different types in fourteen days.
CB: Right.
ME: It’s all down there.
CB: Yes. So, did you end up with a preference for certain aircraft and ones that you’d like to avoid. If you had the choice.
ME: We were not given a choice.
CB: No.
ME: We were told each day which aeroplane to fly and where from and to.
CB: Yes.
ME: We had no choice.
CB: No.
ME: But we had a choice as to whether we were flying or not. We had no radio. If we chose not to fly because the weather wasn’t what we wanted then we didn’t. I didn’t. And another thing is there are two or three different aeroplanes all in the same day, different places.
CB: Yes. And what’s it like switching from one plane to another when they are different in the way they handle?
ME: [laughs] Well I don’t know. We had a little book with ferrying pilot’s notes. Read the book. Get in the aeroplane and fly.
CB: And what are the most significant points in the ferry pilot’s notes that they’re making you aware of? Some of them had flaps and some didn’t I presume for instance. Did they?
ME: Oh, I don’t want to go into the technical pieces of —
CB: Ok. Doesn’t matter. I’ll stop just for a mo.
[recording paused]
ME: Garlands or whatever it was.
CB: Right. So I suppose —
ME: It was all, it was all different.
CB: Yes.
ME: But you had to know this.
CB: Yes. That’s what I was getting at really because —
ME: Have you seen the ferry pilot’s notes?
CB: I haven’t. No.
ME: You haven’t.
CB: No.
[recording paused]
CB: So, what you have there is a book of pilot’s notes. Ferry pilot’s notes. Could you just do what you did just then? Tell me what variety have you got in there of planes because it’s just significant in terms of how you had to handle this extraordinary change of aeroplane.
ME: It wasn’t, it wasn’t only the aeroplanes. We had no radio whatsoever. We had nothing except our own thing. And to go from one place to another and when one gets to an airfield that is flying Oxfords and then you have to go around and sit in somewhere. Or another place. I’d go to Shawbury and take a Wellington. And I go around and I have to fit in with all the others because they are talking with the RAF. But I have no radio and they don’t know really I’m there except by looking and I have to choose when to go in and land. And it wasn’t easy.
CB: So, you’re talking about fitting into the circuit.
ME: I’m flying a Wellington all by myself, with nobody else there. So I couldn’t ask. They’re all there.
CB: Yeah. So a huge range in there and the number, the notes are simply on a single sheet. Yeah. So, in here we’ve got Catalina. Buckmaster. Blenheim. Huge variety. Albacore. Tutor.
ME: They’re in alphabetical order.
CB: Yes. And Firefly. Did you do any four engine bombers?
ME: Yes. As a second pilot.
CB: What was that?
ME: In a Stirling. And a Halifax. And a Lancaster.
CB: Right. So, in those four-engined planes were there just the two of you or would there be another person as well.
ME: No. There was also an engineer.
CB: Right. Right. And the engineer was there because of them being multi-engined. Right.
ME: That’s right.
CB: So, in the circumstances of this navigation challenge it’s amazing that you managed to find places. What was the way that you planned a route to get there with no radio.
ME: We just had a map.
CB: Yeah.
ME: And don’t forget all these places were — what’s the word?
Other: Camouflaged.
ME: Camouflaged. And they were not easy to find.
CB: No.
ME: And some of them were secret and so they were very difficult to find but we did it. Didn’t we?
CB: Extraordinary. Yeah. What about the night flying? You said you weren’t normally going to do that.
ME: No.
CB: Were some people —
ME: The whole idea of the Air Transport Auxiliary was to get the aeroplane safely from the factory to where they were needed in the RAF and the RNAS. It was no good breaking them because the country at one time was almost without aeroplanes. And so we had to be very careful.
CB: Yeah.
ME: But we were very much on our own. We could fly or if we didn’t like the weather or we didn’t like the aeroplane then we were not pressurised at all.
CB: Which sort of aeroplane would you not like, really?
ME: Which what?
CB: Which sort of aeroplane would you not like?
ME: I didn’t like the Walrus. I know it was a very useful aeroplane.
CB: Seaplane.
ME: But it had a mind of its own and once it clattered about like a lot of bags of old things and something and it made a terrible noise on the ground [laughs] and in the air it just did what it wanted to do no matter what. It was terrible [laughs] but I flew quite a lot of them.
CB: Did you land them all on land? Or did you land some on water?
ME: Yes. They were made at Cowes and I took them from Cowes and landed them wherever I had to.
CB: Yeah. If the weather deteriorated what would you do while you were flying?
ME: Either put down at some aerodrome. It didn’t matter where. Or turn around and go back. Just depended on what weather was coming.
CB: And the people on the [pause] your destination were all expecting you.
ME: No. They didn’t know.
CB: Sounds interestingly challenging.
ME: Very challenging.
CB: Yeah. So, when you landed in your Wellington and got out — what happened next?
ME: Well [laughs] I can tell you the story which everybody already knows. You can tell the story couldn’t you Frank?
CB: Well it’s just we can’t hear it on there. Yes. Could you tell it please?
ME: This, yes, this Wellington I delivered. I can’t remember where it was but I delivered it to some station and I taxied to dispersal and switched off and then opened the door and let the ladder down. I went down with my parachute and the crowd of people on the ground who were there they were amazed. This schoolgirl, you know, flying these big aeroplanes. And they just stood there. And I said, ‘Can we go to control. I must have my chitty signed.’ And they said, ‘We’re waiting for the pilot.’ I said, ‘I am the pilot.’ There I was, you know, young and lovely uniform and they wouldn’t believe me so two men went inside to search the aeroplane to find the pilot. And they came out and they said, ‘No.’ There was no sign of anybody else so they accepted that I was the pilot. And I was. But I was unusual for one small girl to be flying these bombers. Hampdens and things like that.
CB: The fact a girl was doing it or just on her own?
ME: Without any radio. Without anything else at all.
CB: So was there a rule that if it was a bomber there would normally be two pilots?
ME: In the RAF they would have five.
CB: Yes, but —
ME: I think.
CB: In delivery. On delivery, when you were doing, delivering bombers was there a rule that normally there would be two for bombers or just one pilot.
ME: No. There was only two when they were four-engined ones.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Or if I flew an aeroplane like a Mitchell, I think, if you couldn’t get to the emergency you had to carry an engineer but not another pilot.
CB: You mentioned uniform. So how did you feel about your uniform?
ME: Well we were so used to having a uniform we were so pleased when we had two days off because we worked for two weeks and then had two days off and it was nice to get into civilian clothes and rush off all around one’s friends and go home.
CB: Were you based, yourself, always at White Waltham or did you move elsewhere?
ME: I wasn’t based at White Waltham. I was based at Ferrypool 15 which is Hamble.
CB: Right. And what sort of accommodation did you get there?
ME: It was very good. Everywhere I went was very very good because the ATA sorted it all out and we were just taken from one place to another to another. And I was stationed at Basildon and lived with a family in this big, big house, you know, and they looked after me frightfully well. And each girl had some other place. So, we were all well looked after. We had to be ‘cause we were flying each day and all day.
CB: So, when you got to your destination for the delivery you were picked up by the taxi were you?
ME: Usually. But sometimes I had to fly an aeroplane up to Prestwick and maybe it took two or three days to get there depending on the weather and something. And then I had to come back by night train to London. Back to White Waltham and there they would give me another aeroplane to fly back to Hamble.
CB: Right.
ME: A delivery flight. So, very complicated but it was marvellously operated.
CB: Well, very well organised. What were the taxi planes? Predominantly.
ME: The Anson or the Fairchild.
CB: And they went to various places. They picked up pilots from various places did they? On the way back.
ME: Yes. It’s usually a junior would fly the empty aeroplane and whoever got in the other aeroplane the senior pilot would take over.
CB: On the way back.
ME: So if someone went to pick me up then I would have to fly the aeroplane back or wherever it was going. Probably to another delivery place.
CB: We talked about your initial training at White Waltham which was single-engine. Was it? Where did you do your twin engine training?
ME: Pardon?
CB: Where did you do your twin engine training?
ME: I went to Thame for two hours. And that was on light twins. I flew an Oxford for several hours. And when I’d flown lots and lots of different aeroplanes like twins I then went back to White Waltham and I was given a few hours training on a Wellington which put me in the league of all these bombers. And so it was. And from having training on five different aeroplanes I was able to fly a hundred and seventy six aeroplanes.
CB: Right. What was the most daunting thing about switching to a thing like the Wellington because it’s quite a big aeroplane.
ME: I know but [laughs] you don’t need strength really to fly the big aeroplanes, do you?
Other: Not these days you don’t.
CB: No.
Other: It was a bit more difficult in those days.
ME: I’ll tell you one thing that happened in the Spitfire. Two of us girls were going from Southampton one morning. Quite short. And it was quite hazy. Very thick hazy. You couldn’t see. You could see straight down like that and my friend went off in her aeroplane and I thought yes, I’ll go off in mine and took off and it was, I went above the haze as much as I could and I never saw another aeroplane. But we were both going to Wroughton which is Swindon and the thick haze was so great that I managed to look down because I’d judged on the time and what have you that it was — Wroughton was there. And I looked down and it was there. And I didn’t see any other aeroplane. I couldn’t see anyway. Only straight down. So, I did a circuit and came in to land and she must have done exactly the same. I don’t know. But she did a circuit the other way and we actually passed on the runway. We were actually wheels on the runway. She was going one way and I was going the other. We must have missed by inches [pause] and we didn’t see each other. Not even, not even at the end, coming in to land.
CB: Amazing.
ME: We only saw each other as she was going that way or I was going that way and suddenly there was another aeroplane and then I discovered later it was her and she discovered it was me. So we decided we mustn’t tell anybody.
CB: What conversation did you have about that?
ME: Oh, it frightens me. Lots of lovely stories like that.
CB: Yes.
ME: But we can’t go on forever.
CB: Well. Finding the airfields, I thought, was an interesting point because your navigation clearly was very good but in certain circumstances it must be difficult. So how did you? When you got near to an airfield that you weren’t right on course how did you deal with that? You weren’t quite sure where it was. Did you do a square search or what would you do?
ME: Well we just had the maps.
CB: Yes.
ME: And hoped to get there. Whether we went straight or went that way and like that but we got there and then the map said this is the one. So then you had to operate in between the other aeroplanes which were being driven, piloted by the RAF. And the RAF didn’t know that we were coming.
CB: So, what was the technique? Would you fly overhead and then they would communicate with you by —
ME: How could they? We had no radio.
CB: By — no, no. By lamp. They would signal.
ME: No.
CB: They wouldn’t do anything.
ME: They were doing what they had to do and I would —
CB: You just joined the circuit.
ME: Well I couldn’t really join it because probably it was a different sort of aeroplane. Mine might be a Spitfire and somebody else’s might be an Anson or something.
CB: As time went on the planes became more powerful and sophisticated. How did you feel about that? Did you enjoy that?
ME: I loved the fast and furious ones [laughs]
CB: Tempest.
ME: The Tempest. The Typhoon. What was it? All those fast ones. The American one. What’s that?
Other: Mustang.
CB: Mustang.
ME: Pardon?
CB: The Mustang.
ME: Mustang. That was it. I did, I loved those. But then if you’re flying every day then it’s not as difficult as if you’re flying once a week.
CB: No.
ME: But it is difficult when you have three or four different types.
CB: In a day.
ME: In a day.
CB: Let alone in a week.
ME: And then being taken to somewhere else. [pause] Here you are. A Hudson. A Barracuda. A Boston. A Fairchild and a Spitfire.
CB: Three twins and two singles. Yeah.
ME: [laughs] I find it’s, it’s difficult to talk to anyone unless they are a pilot because they don’t appreciate the dangers we were in all the time. It’s amazing really that we did so well.
CB: Yes. What did you regard as your biggest danger when you were doing deliveries?
ME: Weather. Because the weather could clamp down at any time and the amount of meteorology that we knew was very little. It’s not much better today anyway [laughs]
CB: No. So you talked about going above the haze but would you sometimes put them really low in order to be able to see where you were going?
ME: Would I what?
CB: Would you fly really low sometimes in order to —
ME: Yes.
CB: Under the cloud.
ME: I liked to fly in a fast machine. I liked to fly so that I could see the church steeples and go from one to the other and I knew the country so well that I could do that on a flight. That was lovely [laughs]
CB: So where —
ME: I was still working of course.
CB: So, you did a bit of beating up occasionally.
ME: Yes.
CB: Airfields as well?
ME: Not, not airfields but if you were on track and you thought, ‘Oh my friend lives down there,’ I’d go [whoop] you know. Why not? As long as we kept the aeroplanes safe that was the thing.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Because a broken aeroplane was no good to anybody.
CB: No. How did you feel about when you were picked up by the taxies? How did you feel about being flown up by somebody else?
ME: In the Anson. There were sometimes five of us in the Anson. That was perfectly alright because we would go — whose duty it was that day to pick up. The Anson would go around and pick up until there were five or six of us in the aeroplane and then back to base probably.
CB: If the weather was bad you would have to stay at an airfield I presume. Would you?
ME: We did. Yes. We were well looked after if we had to stay.
CB: Because you had effectively an officer rank so they put you in the officer’s mess did they?
ME: Oh yes, we were. Yes. We were.
CB: And what happened in the social side of the officer’s mess activities? Off duty.
ME: Off duty. I wouldn’t know. If we stayed overnight we would have an evening meal and then obviously one was tired and I used to go to bed in the officer’s — wherever it was. I don’t know. They allowed us a very special officer’s place. What do you call them? In the officer’s mess or somewhere.
Other: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Anyway, we were well looked after.
CB: Well looked after.
ME: I was well looked after. Yes.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
ME: But what I didn’t like. I landed somewhere, I remember, and I had to stay the night and I stayed and ate in the evening with a lot of these RAF officers and then went to bed. And the next morning I got up and went to have breakfast and there were only one or two officers there. So, I said to one of them, ‘What has happened to everybody this morning?’ And they said, ‘They didn’t come back last night.’ And that really hurt. That was terrible. I couldn’t bear that. But I had to get in my aeroplane and go off.
CB: Are we talking about a bomber delivery here?
ME: So [pause] it wasn’t all fun.
CB: No. And did —
ME: Because I lost several friends, you know. The girls. They were there and then the next day at Hamble, when we went, they weren’t there. And we had to carry on. There was a war on.
CB: And what sort of things would cause the girls not to be there?
ME: Because they’d been killed.
CB: But flying in bad weather would it be, or aircraft breaking down?
ME: It was usually bad weather. As ATA.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Yes. It wasn’t, that wasn’t very nice.
CB: Did you strike up some really strong friendships with other ATA people?
ME: Yes. We were all fifteen, twenty girls together. We were all great pals. Some were high rank and some were low but it didn’t make any difference socially. We were quite happy to be together.
CB: And what rank did you start at?
ME: I started as a cadet. And then I skipped third officer and I became a second officer and I was a second officer for about a year and then I became a first officer. And after that, if one went higher, it meant you had to have a job on a desk as well as flying. I didn’t particularly want that.
CB: No.
ME: So, I tried to keep as a first officer.
CB: So that’s equivalent to flight lieutenant.
ME: No. It’s equivalent to squadron leader.
CB: Right.
ME: Isn’t that right?
Other: [unclear]
ME: Well I was told it was.
CB: So your real interest was to fly all the time. Were you marking?
ME: Rather than sit.
CB: Yes. Were you marking up your score of the number of different planes.
ME: No. No.
CB: Or was it just coincidence that it —?
ME: No. Each day one had to put in the log book.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
ME: Because they all had numbers and so you had to put them in the logbook.
CB: Yeah. Apart from the meeting on the runway in opposite directions what other scary moments did you have?
ME: [Laughs] Too numerous to say.
CB: Give us a sample.
ME: I — no I’m not going to say that. [pause] Yes. There were always little incidents rather. Especially with Spitfires when the tail wheel wouldn’t either go up or go down. I can’t remember. Do you remember?
Other: You’re probably thinking about the main wheels because the tail wheel, first, the very early ones had a skid and then they got the tail wheel very early on but it was not retractable. I think they did have some on the PR aeroplanes that were retractable. I’m not sure.
ME: I’ve got a lot of things in one or two of my books.
CB: Was the Spitfire rather temperamental or was it just you needed to drive with caution?
ME: Here’s a Headquarters, Finding Accidents Committee. “The aircraft landed at its destination with the tail wheel retracted.”
CB: Right. The later model.
ME: “The pilot is held not responsible for this incident.”
CB: Right. Right.
ME: Or accident.
CB: Right. So, which aircraft was that?
ME: This? What?
CB: Which aircraft was that?
ME: It was a Spitfire.
CB: Right.
Other: Interesting.
ME: I don’t know where it was. I’ve got [unclear] [pause] yes, I had [laughs] I was flying over the New Forest one day. I was going to pick someone up from Stoney Cross. I was flying a taxi aeroplane and the engine clipped so, as you know, you can’t stay up there too long when you’ve got no engine. Fortunately, I found a space and I managed to get down in this space which was very very small and I didn’t damage the aeroplane. But there I was. Stranded. And from out of all the trees and bushes came a herd of cows and I’m terrified of cows. And so I had to be rescued [laughs] myself. Somebody passing by or doing something saw an aeroplane and so they came and rescued me from these cows which is extraordinary. To land an aeroplane quite safely and then have to be rescued from the cows [laughs]
CB: And as a farming girl that was quite interesting.
ME: [laughs] yes. There was a reason why I was not very [laughs] intimate with the cows.
CB: In the early days of farming was it?
ME: [laughs]
CB: So, what was that plane you were flying that day? A single engine was it?
ME: There you are. Eleven types in fourteen days. Did I tell you that?
CB: No. That’s good.
ME: I did.
CB: You did.
ME: That was that one. Well, there was ten types in fifteen days.
CB: Right. What’s the predominant one there?
ME: On July the 6th I flew a Wellington.
CB: Yeah.
ME: A Defiant, a Wellington, a Spitfire and a Swordfish. All in the same day.
CB: Quite a bit of variety. What was the Swordfish like to fly?
ME: It was lovely.
CB: Draughty.
ME: I liked being out in the open for a change. It was. It really was lovely. It was like a ginormous Tiger Moth.
Other: It was big.
CB: Apart from the Walrus which you didn’t like what other plane would you rather have avoided?
ME: I think I told you. The Walrus.
CB: No. Apart from the Walrus.
ME: There isn’t one I disliked but several I found rather more difficult to handle than others.
CB: Would that be twin engines more difficult to handle or some of the very fast?
ME: Some of the bigger ones.
CB: Yes.
ME: Like a Hampden. And you know when you fly a Hampden you have to put a special thing on to get the undercarriage down. If you forget to press this little knob —
CB: Pneumatic.
ME: Then the undercarriage won’t go down and so you circle around and think why can’t I get the undercarriage down? Eventually you just remember to poke this thing [laughs]
Other: Yeah.
CB: Did you ever have a wheels-up landing?
ME: Yes. I did [laughs] I hesitate because I don’t really like answering it but Chattis Hill was a secret place for making Spitfires.
CB: Oh.
ME: And it was in [pause] what’s it near? Chattis Hill. What’s it near?
Other: [unclear]
CB: I don’t know where that is.
ME: Anyway, it was a secret and it was on a side of a hill. And I took this Spitfire off down to where they’d been training horses. So I went down to get a good look and I took off quite happily and one day I forgot that it was a different engine and [laughs] I hadn’t changed the trim the right way and I took off and I went zoom. Like that [laughs] and missed the trees by that much. ‘Cause you know there’s a Merlin engine and a Griffon engine. Now, I forgot so that was my fault. But shortly before or after that I took off from Chattis Hill, this secret place and I went up and I couldn’t get my green lights. In fact, I couldn’t get any lights at all and so I didn’t know what was happening with this Spitfire. And then it started getting warm and I thought I can’t stay up here so I flew around this place and these people in this secret place, I saw them bring out the fire engine and I saw them bring out the ambulance and I thought, oh. And I then went back around and I knew I had to land somehow and so I did. I came in to land and I switched an engine off as I crossed into the field.
CB: On the boundary.
ME: And then sat it down without any, without the undercarriage, without more ado.
Other: [unclear]
ME: It, because I’d switched off everything I could it wasn’t too bad. I got a few bruises myself. But they soon mended the aeroplane I think. A couple of weeks afterwards.
CB: Yeah.
ME: It was flying again.
CB: So, did you come in at a lower speed in order to make sure that you stuck well or how did you do it?
ME: When?
CB: When you were on finals did you actually come in slower than you would have done with the undercarriage down?
ME: What do you mean finals?
CB: Final approach.
ME: Are you talking about this aeroplane?
CB: Yes. As you came in.
ME: It wasn’t [laughs] There was no case of finals. It was just a racecourse.
CB: Right.
ME: [laughs] And I knew if something — obviously I would come in as slowly and safely as I could.
CB: Yeah.
ME: All my learnings came into my head in a fraction of a second and that’s why I didn’t break it very much.
CB: Just bent the propeller.
ME: So all my learning was very good [laughs]
CB: You clearly had a huge number of experiences. What would you say was your proudest event?
ME: Oh, I don’t know [laughs]
CB: I should think that was one of them. Getting it down undamaged.
ME: Pardon?
CB: I should think that was one. Getting it down undamaged.
ME: Ahum.
[pause]
CB: Now, there were men in the ATA as pilots as well as women. So how did that fit?
ME: We were all girls at Hamble.
CB: Right.
ME: We didn’t have any men.
CB: Right.
ME: Just one engineer man. That’s right.
CB: So, at Hamble you were picking up brand new aeroplanes.
ME: We were not always picking up brand new aeroplanes. Quite often we were picking up aeroplanes that had been damaged that had to be flown to the MUs to be fixed again to carry on flying. Quite often we did that. It wasn’t always new ones.
CB: So were you delivering the damaged ones as well as picking up the ones that had been mended?
ME: Yes.
CB: Right. And when you landed at the airfields there was a simple — they weren’t expecting you but there was a simple procedure that you went through was there? To hand over the aircraft.
ME: No. We went and put the aeroplane where they asked us to put it. And then we had this little chitty which we took back with us to Hamble and put it in so they knew that we had delivered that particular aeroplane safely.
CB: Yeah. I’m going to stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
ME: Meteor flight.
CB: No. So tell us. The first jet.
[pause]
ME: This —
CB: So, this was —
ME: That’s what you wanted.
CB: Thank you.
[pause]
CB: This is a letter from November 1945 saying, “Dear Miss Wilkins, I’d like to add to the expressions conveyed to you by my commanding officer my own appreciation of your good work you’ve done for the Air Transport Auxiliary as a ferry pilot. I wish you every happiness in the future and success in any work you may undertake. Yours sincerely, Senior Commander, Director of Women Personnel, Air Transport Association.” Amazing.
ME: Thank you.
CB: So, the Meteor. Where was that being collected from?
ME: Yes. When ATA really closed in ’45 I was seconded with a few other men to fly in 41 Group. The RAF.
CB: Yes.
ME: So, I was posted to White Waltham and during that time I was asked — given a Meteor to fly. [pause] And so I flew it [laughs]
CB: So where did you take off from?
ME: I was flown to Gloucester. Where we were the other day.
CB: Yeah. Staverton.
ME: I flew it from Gloucester to Exeter. I’d never seen one before and I remember saying to the pilot, ‘I can’t fly it because it doesn’t have any propellers.’ [laughs] And so, I said, ‘Can you tell me any of its characteristics or something.’ And he said, ‘All I can tell you is that you must watch the fuel gauges because they go from full to empty in thirty,’ something, ‘Minutes so you’d better be on the ground in that. Before that.’ And that’s all the instructions I had on a Meteor [laughs]
CB: So, what did they explain about the engines and how they operated?
ME: I’ve no idea.
[pause]
CB: Extraordinary. Because one of the interesting —
ME: I just had to fly it and I had my book.
CB: Yeah.
ME: I looked in the book.
CB: Pilot’s handbook.
ME: What it said.
CB: Yeah.
ME: This, that and the other and I just flew it.
CB: Did it tell you you had to keep the revs above a certain level?
ME: No. It didn’t [laughs]
CB: ‘Cause one of the interesting —
ME: How would I know? Because it was entirely different from an ordinary aeroplane.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
ME: So, I just looked in the book and there it told me and so I did what it said.
CB: What height did you fly on that?
ME: Oh. I can’t remember but I remember going off and I thought oh I’m up here. Where am I? I’m lost [laughs] but I soon found myself. Oh and the pilot had told me it would drop like a stone when I took the power off but I didn’t find that at all. I did, it could be a perfect landing and all the people at Exeter were there to greet it and they couldn’t believe this female [laughs] this young female driving this. And the CO said, ‘Oh that’s wonderful. We’ll have a party,’ [laughs] and he said he would keep it for his own because they were changing from Spitfires to Meteors or the other way around. I don’t know which. Anyway, that was my experience which was fantastic. I thought it was wonderful.
CB: And how did you feel the acceleration and speed on that compared with a Spitfire?
ME: Well it was nothing like a Spitfire. A Meteor’s got two engines. A Spitfire’s only got one. So [laughs]
Other: Very fast.
ME: Oh, dear.
CB: Yes.
ME: I’ll tell you what.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Someone said you wanted to know how many Wellingtons I’d flown.
CB: Yes.
ME: And so, I put it out at one, two, three, four to be continued. I got tired of doing it so I —
CB: Right. That’s very good.
ME: And there it is. I copied from my logbook.
CB: That’s lots of Wellingtons. Yeah.
ME: Hard work that was.
CB: Thank you.
ME: Four engines were Lancaster, Lancaster, Liberator, Stirling and Halifax.
CB: Did you fly as first pilot in any of those?
ME: Not the four engine ones.
CB: Right.
ME: No.
CB: And were they also flown by women?
ME: There were secret places.
CB: Yeah. Were they flown by women?
ME: Yes.
CB: As well. They were.
ME: Yes. Of course. Women did everything.
CB: They did. Marvellous. Yeah. So was it only one Meteor you flew or did you go on to fly others?
ME: Pardon?
CB: Did you fly other Meteors?
ME: No. Because I was only there for three months.
CB: Right.
ME: And they were just making these Meteors then. No other girl alive has flown a Meteor.
CB: No. I can imagine. So, then the war ends. Well, what happened at the end of the war?
ME: Well, flying ceased so I went home. I went home. Played tennis with my mother.
Other: [unclear]
CB: And when did you meet your husband to be?
ME: I met him, oh I don’t know. I was running the airfield up here for about ten years before I met him. And then suddenly he appeared and he was a commercial pilot then. So. He was very handsome and so I thought [pause] he talked me into it. I may as well agree [laughs]
CB: So, after the war then you went home and played tennis but after that you went back in to flying.
ME: Well, I just said I came to the Isle of Wight as a, I was a personal pilot to a man that had an aeroplane but no pilot.
CB: Oh. Who was based in the Isle of Wight. Right.
ME: That’s why I’m on the Isle of Wight.
CB: And how often did he use his plane? Well you flew it but —
ME: Very often because he went to various places in, he had to go to committee meetings every so often to here, there and all over the country. So, it was rather fun.
CB: What plane did he use?
ME: A Gemini.
CB: But it had a radio [laughs]
ME: Pardon?
CB: But it had a radio now.
ME: No.
CB: Oh. it didn’t.
ME: No.
CB: Oh right.
ME: No. It didn’t.
CB: What about going abroad? Did he go abroad in it?
ME: I can’t hear now because my hearing aid has just run out.
CB: Ok. I’ll stop.
[recording paused]
ME: I became a personal pilot to this farmer man.
CB: Yeah.
ME: Then he bought a small airfield.
CB: Oh.
ME: And he had several managers which he wasn’t happy with and then one day he suggested that I could manage it for him. And I thought, well it’s a challenge and I like a challenge. So after a while instead of going home I decided to become an airport airfield manager so I was made manager and a few weeks afterwards when I started to build it up and I built the place up and up and I became airport commandant [laughs] because I’d now fixed in a CRDF and all sorts of things which had to be in order for the airline to come in and I did so desperately want the airlines to come in to the Isle of Wight. And so, I had to have all this CRDF and everything else. So, I did that.
CB: This is at Sandown.
ME: And the airlines came in. In the summer it brought people from Leeds and Manchester and Birmingham and Exeter and London. Every day in the summer. Which was — people can’t remember here that this ever happened but it did and it was wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. And then of course I was married by this time and my husband was working for the — what was it?
Other: The Hovercraft.
ME: Hovercraft
LS: Yes. Yes.
Other: Hovercraft.
ME: Yes. The British Hovercraft. Whatever it was called.
CB: The British Hovercraft Association. At Cowes. Yes
ME: And he was posted out to various places around the world and then he didn’t like that very much so he came back. And he was asked again, please would he go to various places and he said he wouldn’t go unless I went with him. So it was a case of he giving up his job or me giving up mine. And unfortunately for me I had to give up. So, I said I can’t stay here any longer and so I went abroad with my husband but because I left the field gradually went downhill and it closed shortly afterwards and went for sale. And I didn’t know anything about it then because I was abroad. Had I stayed I would have gone on. Without my husband [laughs]
CB: Yes. We’re talking about Sandown aren’t we? Yes. Which still has a grass runway. So, you went around the world with him. Then eventually he returned to the UK. You did. Together.
ME: Yes.
CB: Then what?
ME: But that, that would take, that took about four or five years because I was in the airfield here from ‘50 to ‘70. ‘70 I took off with my husband. So that was twenty years.
Other: Mary. You did the pleasure flying. Mary. Pleasure flying.
ME: Pleasure flights.
Other: Yeah.
CB: You did pleasure flights.
ME: Donald did afterwards.
Other: Yeah.
ME: But — yes because Donald bought an aeroplane. My husband. And together we did pleasure flights. Yes. That’s right. Which was very interesting because quite a lot of people that went for a pleasure flight decided that they would learn to fly afterwards because they enjoyed it. It was going around the Isle of Wight. So that was some good. And then, for some reason, Donald left and said, ‘I don’t want to do that anymore.’ So he didn’t. And I just went. We sold the aeroplane and I more or less went with the aeroplane just selling tickets. And that’s how people know me. Selling pleasure flight tickets. They don’t know anything about my previous life.
CB: Extraordinary. Yeah.
ME: It’s extraordinary.
CB: Yes. Eventually you gave up selling the tickets.
ME: [laughs] Yes.
CB: And settled down to a bit of retirement.
ME: I’m trying to grow old gracefully with my great help.
CB: Yes. Lorraine.
ME: My great friend.
LS: We try to inspire each other. You’re still inspiring me anyway, Mary.
CB: And finally as far as the air, the association was concerned, the organisation continued.
ME: Which?
CB: In the background. Your [pause] your girl, the girls who were in the —
ME: That stopped at the end of the war.
CB: Right.
ME: That finished in ‘45 and so I had three months in’ 46 when I was with 41 Group.
CB: Right.
ME: Which is part of the RAF isn’t it?
CB: Yeah.
Other: I’m not sure, Mary. I don’t know.
CB: Yeah. But the Air Transport Auxiliary had an Association afterwards did it? Where people kept together and so you kept in touch with the girls you’d flown with for all those years. Did you? At annual events?
ME: There weren’t very many because most of the girls had been married and so they stayed at home.
CB: Right.
ME: But we did have one reunion. Yes. And that was all. And gradually they have all gone to heaven. Or somewhere.
CB: Yeah. Well Mary Wilkins Ellis thank you very much for a most interesting conversation and we wish you many more years.
ME: You can’t do that because I’m a hundred and a half already.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AEllisMW170703
PEllisMW1701
Title
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Interview with Mary Ellis
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:17:14 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-03
Description
An account of the resource
Mary Wilkins Ellis was born in Oxfordshire and became interested in aviation at a very early age. She experienced her first flight with Alan Cobham’s Flying Circus. Mary learned to fly while still at school and obtained her licence in 1938. When the war began all civil flying was stopped and she thought her flying life was over until she heard a request on the radio for ladies who had a flying licence to join the Air Transport Auxiliary. She applied and was accepted immediately. She began her training at Hatfield and then at White Waltham, where she learnt the rudiments of flying various different kinds of aircraft as well as emergency training, meteorology and morse code. As with all ATA pilots, she began ferrying planes to airfields without the benefit of a radio and landing without any assistance. This led to a number of close calls. One day she ferried two Wellingtons, a Spitfire, a Defiant and a Swordfish. Towards the end of the war she also flew a Meteor.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Air Transport Auxiliary
aircrew
Anson
B-25
Blenheim
Catalina
Defiant
Halifax
Hampden
Hudson
Hurricane
Lancaster
Meteor
Oxford
P-51
pilot
RAF Hatfield
Spitfire
Stirling
Swordfish
Tiger Moth
Typhoon
Walrus
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/316/3473/PPennLE1701.1.jpg
824abb2c2b7f455b204aa46be93d7f9a
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/316/3473/APennL170622.1.mp3
0620d580b7438a89e75829dd538816b6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Penn, Lawrence
L Penn
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Lawrence Penn (b. 1922, 413929 Royal Australian Air Force) his log book and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 226 Squadron part of the Second Tactical Air Force.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Lawrence Penn and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Penn, L
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Jean MaCartney, the interviewee is Lawrence or Lorrie Penn. The interview is taking place at Mr Penn’s home in Mosman, New South Wales, on the 22nd of June 2017. Also present is Mister Penn’s wife June. Ok, Lorrie, I’ve look at some details on your background and I see you were born in Cremorne.
LP: Yes, I do.
JM: And indeed as we were having a little chat to start with before we started the interview, you mentioned you were born in Cremorne,
LP: Cremorne, yes.
JM: In Murdock Street,
LP; In Murdock Street.
JM: In what street, yes, so that was obviously at home
LP: It was a proper hospital in those days but not now of course
JM: A proper hospital back then, was it? Right. No, ok, and that was in December 1922?
LP: That’s right. 27th, two days after Christmas, it was a dreadful time to be born.
JM: Indeed, indeed. And, did the family live round here so that you then went to school around here?
LP: Yes, I did at Cremorne initially then we, after about six years of age we went to Adelaide and then we went up to Cairns and then down to Coffs Harbour so I had, it was after I came back from Coffs Harbour that I had a couple of years at Trinity College and then went to Shore for three or four years,
JM: Right.
LP: And finished my education there.
JM: Finished at Shore, ok. In moving around, quite a bit of the countryside there in just what you’ve said, how did you find different parts of Australia? Do you have any particular memories that stand out for you in your early years of going around the countryside at all?
LP: Oh, I enjoyed it all, perhaps that’s where I gave them my interest in overseas, finding out what was going on overseas.
JM: And did you keep any friends at all down the track from those early years or?
LP: No, probably, as a country down from the other states but from Shore School lifelong.
JM: Right, yes.
LP: Just about, I outlasted them all I was [unclear]
JM: Yes, I guess that would be getting almost to the case now and so you did your intermediate at Shore.
LP: Yes, I did.
JM: And then
LP: And then left Shore and went into a bank as a bank clerk there until the war began.
JM: Right. Did you do leaving certificate as well?
LP: No, no.
JM: Just intermediate.
LP: Just intermediate.
JM: Intermediate, right, ok. And so you left, well before we go into your banking role, were you involved in sports or?
LP: Usual things.
JM: School.
LP: Yeah. Football and cricket. The main, think I did a bit of tennis.
JM: Bit of tennis, yeah. And around where were you living with you going to Shore were you sort of in this area or?
LP: Yeah, yes.
JM: Yes.
LP: Still Cremorne, Southern Street. Cremorne.
JM: Cremorne, ok. And so, did you then go to scouts or Air League or anything?
LP: In the school cadets, school cadets and after I left school I didn’t join, I just did tennis club after school.
JM: Tennis club, right, ok. And then into, let me think, so then you would have been probably started work being then in the Depression years.
LP: It’s been about 1938, ’37, ’38 when I left school and went straight into getting a job with the bank.
JM: Ah, yes, that’s true, that’s true, yes, so you were still at school in the Depression years potentially.
LP: I was in Coffs Harbour I think during [unclear].
JM: Coffs Harbour, right. Ok.
LP: My father was a theatre manager.
JM: Oh, ok, so.
LP: That’s why we went from state to state virtually and then when he retired, he finished up writing The picture show man, his experience because his father was also started off producing, not producing films, but showing films all around the rural areas up the North Coast there.
JM: Right, right.
LP: And my dad wrote a résumé of what happened to his youth and so forth and they made a movie out of it, they called The Picture Show Man.
JM: That’s right, that’s right, indeed. Uhm, so that would have been, picture shows would have been very much a discretionary expenditure so with the Depression that would have been quite a tough going for your father.
LP: It was tough going, yes. He was educated mainly in Tamworth there, in Tamworth, lovely town up the North Coast.
JM: Indeed. So, then when you, the family, your father retired, then is that when you came back to Sydney?
LP: Yes, well, Dad entered the army when the war started out, entered the army as a private and finished up as a Major, going through Lieutenant Colonel when he was finally discharged and Dad had a bit of trouble, just trouble and he had, he was medically discharged then.
JM: Ok. And, so then you went into the bank when you left school?
LP: Yes.
JM: And which bank was that?
LP: It was called the English Scottish and Australian Bank then,
JM: Yes.
LP: But it’s the ANZ now.
JM: ANZ, yes, the Esanda, wasn’t it its original name, the Esanda?
LP: That’s right.
JM: Yes.
LP: Yes.
JM: Yes, that’s right. Ok, so, you were, whereabouts were you based in the bank? Were you in the city or just?
LP: The first job was at the Spit Junction.
JM: Spit Junction?
LP: Yes [laughs] Very handy.
JM: Oh, ok, very handy, very handy.
LP: And then I went to the hill office after a year and a bit, to King George Street in the city of Sydney and did a little bit of relieving going to different banks when they were on holiday, the South was on holidays. I wasn’t very high up in the bank at all.
JM: Oh, you were only fairly young at this stage, I mean, Goodness gracious!
LP: [laughs] But, no, it is a dreadful thing to say but it was a fortunate thing for me was that the war started really because it made such a, I wouldn’t have met June.
JP: No. [laughs]
JM: Well, I think there are a lot of
LP: Because I met June in New York in, June was a child evacuee from England and she was only seventeen when I met her and I was nineteen and I just got my wings in Canada and we went to New York on leave
JM: On leave, yes.
LP: And met her there. Well, she met me really, because she picked me out a crowd of
JP: I was having lunch in this Hotel Edison and they asked me, the management, who would I like from that group of airmen over there, who could just come and have lunch with us. And I looked at all the faces and I picked Lorrie.
JM: Oh my Goodness gracious!
JP: He was invited over to have lunch with us
JM: Oh my goodness!
JP: We were both [unclear] management.
LP: We had only about a week to leave in New York. Then I went over across to England on the Queen Elizabeth then and of course won the war [?] over there but of course we didn’t have any correspondence between us for two years. It was just by accident that I met June when they, [unclear] girls were brought back to England after being evacuated.
JM: Right. We will come to a bit more detail about that shortly let’s just, you’ve got a little bit of to, we’ve got to go from your, when you were with the bank and then the war started and so then you enlisted, in September ’41, I see,
LP: That’s right.
JM: So, where, at Bradfield Park, I can see this, so that’s the normal enlisting place for most people there?
LP: Yes.
JM: So, and you did nearly three months at Bradfield Park.
LP: That’s right.
JM: But perhaps before I go a bit further, what made, was there any particular factor that caused you to actually go into the, choose the Air Force to enlist into or?
LP: I was always interested in flying. I remember Dad showed me a free joyride trip to an aircraft that was doing some pleasure flights around Manly and we went up there and that
JM: Sparked your interest.
LP: Sparked my interest.
JM: So that would have been what, do you remember how old you were when that was? Fifteen or so? Maybe earlier?
LP: It would have been earlier than that.
JM: Earlier than that?
LP: It would be about ten, I would say.
JM: Oh my goodness! So that didn’t prompt you to join the Air League at all?
LP: No, because I was still in Shore, at the Shore Grammar School and in the cadets, the cadets were mainly interested in the uniforms and these rifles, they would take their rifles home and all that sort of thing.
JM: And did you do any sort of like officer training in the cadets or?
LP: Yes, but I didn’t advance [unclear], no.
JM: You didn’t advance. Ok. And so, you had, so when came time to join up, then obviously Air Force was going to be the one that you were going to.
LP: Yes, I was going, definitely wanted to join the Air Force.
JM: Right, ok. And so, off to Bradfield Park and then off to
LP: Narromine.
JM: Narromine for your Elementary Flying Training.
LP: That’s right. Went solo there.
JM: Yes.
LP: Twenty courses and there were fifty of us on twenty course and there was only two of us left.
JM: My goodness me, yes.
LP: And this, do you know Tony Vine at all?
JM: No, I don’t know Tony.
LP: Anyhow, he is an ex naval submarine commander actually and he does a lot of commentating on Anzac Day for the ABC over the year and he took an interest in me and he rounded up and got all the stories of the whole twenty, I will show you the book afterwards that he’s written, released that only a couple of months ago.
JM: Right, right.
LP: Down in Canberra.
JM: Right, very interesting, I’ll have a look at it afterwards, yeah. So, Narromine, then back to Bradfield Park for
LP: The Japanese just came in then.
JM: Ah, about 40, yes
LP: We were all ready to hop on the ship and go to San Francisco, the war came in, they didn’t know what to do with us at the time so we went back to Narromine.
JM: Narromine.
LP: Where we refreshed the course. Things got straight and out what was going to happen and we went back and joined the ship and went to San Francisco, as First Class passengers, wonderful [laughs].
JM: Yes. And you were actually in Sydney then when the Japanese came into the harbour?
LP: I think I was still in Narromine.
JM: Still in Narromine, right, ok.
LP: Yes, still in Narromine waiting the war, so.
JM: Right.
LP: With the Japanese.
JM: But when the submarines came into the harbour at [unclear], you weren’t in Sydney.
LP: I wasn’t here, still in Narromine, pretty sure, yes.
JM: Ok, so off you went to, uhm, to San Francisco and.
LP: Yes, and we went by train up to Vancouver, a lovely, quite an eye-opener how lovely it was that trip and then from Vancouver to Edmonton.
JM: Yes.
LP: And we were held there for oh, four to five weeks I think in Edmonton, Canada.
JM: Ah yes, about four weeks looking at the dates here in your logbook, here at the record of service, yes, it was 9th of May until the 6th of June.
LP: That’ll be right, yes, that’ll be right.
JM: So, so what were you doing, any training there in?
LP: No, no, we were just being held there to. We had the medical, the Canadians were very keen to get the medical condition of whatever arriving there so we had dental and all sort of things, x-rays and things like that. Sports.
JM: Yes, a bit of sports to keep you active, I suppose.
LP: Keep us fit, yes. Waiting on a posting to a service training school.
JM: Right.
LP: Which was Dauphin, Manitoba.
JM: Whereabouts?
LP: Dauphin was just north, northwest of Winnipeg.
JM: Right. And how, was that another train trip?
LP: Yes, it was. Over the Rockies and a wonderful trip.
JM: And that would have been quite an experience then to see some of that scenery.
LP: Oh, it was. It was then.
JM: Yeah.
LP: Jasper and up very, many thousand of feet we had to go through the Rockies to and then down on the plains, from then on east of there of course it was flatter than a pancake until you got to the East Coast of Canada pretty well.
JM: Yes, yes, and what training did you do at Dauphin?
LP: At Dauphin? That was a service training school, and that’s where I got my wings, we had to, we were there for [unclear] several months and it was quite hot in Canada in summer.
JM: Yes, that’s right, June through to almost the end of September, so, you’ve got peak summer conditions, so, I guess therefore it was not dissimilar to Australia in that regard.
LP: Yes, in that regard it was.
JM: And how, how did the training go over there, was there?
LP: Oh yes, It went very well,
JM: And there were Canadian instructors presumably [unclear]
LP: Yes, I had Canadian instructors, we were training on the [unclear] aircraft, twin-engine aircraft and very nice aircraft.
JM: Right, and so, you did, you were flying with the instructor and then finally I presume you did your solo flight to get your wings?
LP: Yes. That’s right.
JM: Yeah. And how was that experience? What was your?
LP: Ah, it was wonderful, it went very well, went very well.
JM: Good. And that completely confirmed for you then that you were doing what you wanted to do.
LP: Oh, just, they wanted to because I topped the flying amongst our group. Then they wanted to send me to Prince Edward Island to go onto Sunderland flying boats and I, cause I wanted to get onto Spitfires and I went and saw the CO and set my foot and he more or less agreed that, alright, we’ll take away the Prince Edward Island job and commission went with that too but when I went to the other, when I went to the other service training school, the commission didn’t go with that posting [unclear] but we were posted to the Saint John, to a near field, Pennfield Ridge it was called and that was near Saint John, near the East Coast of Canada onto Venturas.
JM: Right.
LP: Now, these Venturas were twin-engine, like a big Hudson aircraft.
JM: Right.
LP: And, they were a bit heavy handed [laughs], heavy to handle but did alright but in the meantime they were, can I go on to what happened to Venturas?
JM: Yes, you can.
LP: Because they started off on, in England they were sent across, on operations and the first sortie over the English Channel into France that was then [unclear] two boxes of six and one Ventura came back out of the tour. Now, what really happened was normally was daylight bombing and normally bombing between ten and fifteen thousand feet because we were after the V1 sites mainly then [unclear] hours but normally we had a fighter escort Spitfires and Hurricanes which would be up about twenty thousand, twenty five thousand feet looking after us but they, the escort didn’t turn up, so the German fighters had a pretty good
JM: Picnic.
LP: Pretty good go at the Venturas.
JM: Venturas
LP: And that’s why after we got to England we did a conversion onto Mitchells, B-25s,
JM: Right. Ok, so.
LP: We’re getting ahead of.
JM: We just try, I find it easier if we can sort of keep it in sequence in that way, bearing in mind sort of when other people are listening, you know, at other times, it makes it a little bit simpler for them. But that’s not say that if you suddenly think of something we can’t accommodate that because it’s better to get it all. But, so, the Venturas, so you were training on these Venturas and at Pennfield Ridge, and then, as well as that, you followed that on with some about a month and a bit at Yarmouth.
LP: That’s right, at Yarmouth, in, we had to cross the Bay of Fundy to go down to, Yarmouth was still in Canada. There is a Yarmouth in England too.
JM: Yes, that’s why
LP: That’s why my parents thought that’s we’re gone to.
JM: Yes, that’s why a bit, wanting to just clarify what that, yeah, so, there’s Yarmouth in Canada and so, what did you do down in Yarmouth, more Ventura training or?
LP: Yes, more Ventura training.
JM: Ventura training. So, did you actually crew up at this point?
LP: Yes, when we got to Pennfield Ridge we crewed up.
JM: You crewed up there. So, how many because I’m totally unfamiliar with the Ventura, how many were on your crew on a Ventura?
LP: I had to choose a pilot and an observer who was not a pilot, a navigator and bomb aimer. And wireless air gunner and straight gunner.
JM: So, in terms of a Ventura, is it like, did they have, was it like a mid-upper gunner or rear gunner or?
LP: Mid-upper gunner.
JM: A mid-upper gunner. Right, ok. And
LP: Oh, sorry, it was only the straight air gunner was on the Mitchell and he was on one of those gun positions [unclear] down below
JM: Oh, like, down below
LP: Down below and underneath
JM: A lower, right
LP: The Ventura didn’t, it only had the top turret.
JM: Top turret, right. So what did wireless operator run that as well as the radio?
LP: As a gunner
JM: As a gunner
LP: As a gunner, and
JM: Wireless
LP: Wireless man, too.
JM: Wireless, right, ok. So, you had one, two, three, four, five crew on your Ventura.
LP: Ehm, one, two, three, four, actually, three, four because we didn’t have the straight air gunner.
JM: So you had a pilot, observer, navigator
LP: Who was all, observer, navigator was all, all one
JM: All the one, ok. So, pilot, navigator, observer, bomb aimer and wireless air gunner.
LP: Yes.
JM: Yes. Ok. And so, how did you go about your selection of your crew? Did
LP: They were all brought into the hall and we’d just say, would you like to come with me and you’d pick somebody if they were agreeable and that was it.
JM: And were they all, what nationalities were they?
LP: My observer, who was also the
JM: Navigator
LP: Navigator, was a New Zealander.
JM: Right.
LP: There’s with him and the straight air gunner, no, not the straight air gunner, the wireless air gunner
JM: Wireless.
LP: Was a Canadian
JM: Right. And bomb aimer?
LP: That was the observer’s job also. The observer was a navigator and bomb aimer.
JM: And what was he? Ah, he was New Zealander.
LP: He was a New Zealander and the wireless air gunner was a Canadian.
JM: And, so, that was your crew, you went then as a crew to Yarmouth.
LP: To Yarmouth.
JM: And did your additional training
LP: Yes.
JM: In Yarmouth.
LP: Yes.
JM: So then you got after that, any particular memories that, any particular experiences any of these training flights that stand out, any near misses or any interesting visit, interesting side trips as a result of [laughs]?
LP: Not really. I was lucky, the Venturas had the most powerful engine going at the time in the Air Force at two thousand horse power, a radial engine, and had a habit of catching on fire. Luckily I didn’t have that experience myself but we did a lot of formation flying at Yarmouth too, and we’d go out, ehm, select one doing the [unclear] for about half an hour and then change over so. The [unclear] Grant-Suttie was the captain of the leading aircraft I was formating on him and he had an engine failure and we were on a steep turn at the time and I, because he reduced speed because of the engine failure, I pulled off, I suppose I could so but our, my left wingtip hit his tail plane and my left wingtip came up like that, bent right up
JM: Bent right up
LP: Bent right up and of course when I landed and they asked about the other aircraft, the other aircraft, alright, I said, as far as I know, yes, Captain, I’m [unclear], he’s still ok, and I saw him land then and never got into any trouble, I don’t know whether he got into any trouble enough but
JM: But still the engine failed, I mean.
LP: The engine failed and it was down that they weren’t very good engines.
JM: Gosh, well that was an experience to
LP: Yeah, that was an experience.
JM: And again sort of required your resources to manage your way out of it, so.
LP: When you’re in a [unclear] like that and he wants to bank further because the engine fails
JM: So, probably more than forty-five degrees you’re talking about, judging by the position of your hands there, yes.
LP: Is very, I couldn’t do anything except try and sort of get my speed behind his, and we were very lucky that all this more or less still kept together and my wingtip hit his tail plane and, well, it squeezed up against, you say, because there wasn’t any big collision, we were so close anyhow.
JM: Close anyhow.
LP: So.
JM: Gosh! So, that was that experience and that was probably about the only one that you had.
LP: That’s the only one I had.
JP: Bird strike. The bird strike.
LP: Oh no. That’s way.
JM: That’s further down the track, is it? Ok.
LP: Way down the track. This is in the Air Force, I’m still training in the Air Force [laughs]
JM: We’re still, we’re back in Canada here. But whereabouts to sort of go to Halifax and uhm, I presume that’s probably but some of your experiences that’s at Yarmouth and then. So you moved both to Halifax and [unclear] and that was
LP: That was like a holding.
JM: Holding.
LP: Holding spot there and then we actually went by train down to New York
JM: Yes.
LP: To get on board the Queen Elizabeth. Right next door was the French one that was caught on fire.
JM: Fire.
LP: What was the name?
JP: Oh, that French ship. Yes, I remember that.
LP: About the same size as the Queen Elizabeth. Huge French.
JP: It wasn’t the Normandy?
LP: Normandy. That’s it! Good one! Is the Normandy, yes.
JM: Yes.
LP: It spend quite a long time in the New York wharf area.
JM: But when you went down to New York is when you had a week’s leave and when you.
LP: We had the weeks’ leave from Dauphin. That was where I did the [unclear]
JM: Oh, from Dauphin, ok, so whilst you were in Dauphin that had you the week’s leave, right.
LP: That’s right, isn’t it?
JP: Yes.
LP: From Dauphin.
JM: Dauphin, so
LP: [unclear] I got my wings, it wasn’t [unclear], no, because we didn’t have leave and we came before we went on board the Queen Elisabeth. Some memory?
JP: I can’t remember.
LP: You can’t remember, I can’t remember.
JM: No, that’s alright, well that’s
LP: Got in touch with you when I went to New York. No.
JM: No, so was probably around August or something that you had your leave in ’42, went down from Dauphin down to New York so
LP: I don’t think we were allowed so when we were embarking or anything like that.
JM: Right, ok, so that and how did you find your week in New York?
LP: Well, initially.
JM: Yes, that initial.
LP: With June.
JM: Yes, with June.
LP: Oh, we had a lovely time. We saw
JM: So, you met June at the beginning of the leave as opposed to
LP: Yes
JM: So, you had the whole week together basically
JP: I was just having lunch and he was the guest of management and I was guest of management.
JM: Guest of management, yes, no, but it was basically towards the, more as at the start of his leave so you then had a week, more or less a week together. Oh, that was wonderful.
LP: No, not all the time. But I went down to this hotel called [unclear] and the other one, he got his wings too, and we both went to this hotel Edison in New York because we could have two meals for the price of one [laughs]. And, oh, we were looking forward to it, we weren’t flush then.
JM: Oh, that’s right. Exactly, you were payed.
LP: And that’s when June sorted a group of airmen and said, oh, I’ll pick him.
JP: Pick him [laughs].
LP: So it’s all her fault.
JM: It’s all her fault, that’s right. And so, I guess, how long had you been in New York at that stage? June, you had some idea?
JP: Oh, I’d only been in New York probably about a year.
JM: A Year. But still at least you had some knowledge, say you were able to take
LP: You were fifteen, didn’t you?
JP: Fifteen, going, closer to sixteen.
LP: Ah, were you?
JP: Much closer to sixteen. Yes.
LP: June was about the, she was more of us in charge of the other girls going over
JP: That’s right.
LP: And she did three years, they been and she’s been living in New York about a year.
JM: A levels, you did your A levels.
JP: I did the leaving that took everybody four years, I did it in fifteen months.
JM: My Goodness me!
JP: And how I did it was that, where I was as a like a primary school but we had, the older ones, we had a separate cottage and this cottage, these lovely ladies would come and
LP: The Gool [?] Foundation
JP: The Gool [?] Foundation and they’d come and you know they talked me up when I wanted to do my homework for night now where was I? Uhm, what was I about to tell you?
JM: Well, we were just saying that you had, you’d been there about twelve months so that you had some idea about, you know, where to take Lorrie and
JP: Where to take Lorrie and everything and they just sort of got somehow round that we got in touch with each other
LP: When? After.
JP: I don’t know how we did it, whether it’s through my mother.
LP: No, no, no, I happened to be, this is after a two year period after I got to England.
JM: England.
LP: When we first left each other, I think I wrote one letter saying how lovely
JM: [unclear]
LP: I got one letter back, nothing for two years, I happened to be on leave in London and [unclear] officer by then and reading the paper and there was a little part in the paper that said, a lot of these girls were returning as they had been evacuated and gave the address of the headquarters there and I thought, oh, I might go, see if June [unclear] maybe and maybe I might pop in and see and she happened to be there at the headquarters when I popped in.
JM: At that particular time that you went and visited. How a coincidence.
JP: I was getting my papers to get on entertaining the troops had to join ENSO, which was Entertainments National Service Association.
LP: Join the straight, part of a straight play.
JP: Part of a straight play. And, you know I just had this, getting all this information and when Lorrie walked into the building and here you go.
JM: Well, there you go!
JP: Meant to be.
JM: Meant to be, that’s right. And so you became part of the entertainment, troop entertainment.
JP: Yes, I was always in, so, I went to a theatre school as a child through [unclear] and then we went to New York and then I had a very good, I had the best drama teacher in the world at that time called Frances Robinson-Duff and she gave me a free scholarship to attend her school and from there, well, I went back to England, the best way for me to use what I knew in theatre was to join the Entertainment National Service Association, which was a group that entertained troops in straight plays and things like that all over England and Scotland.
LP: You went up to the Orkneys at that time.
JM: Gosh! Yeah, so you, well.
JP: Unfortunately everybody would have been in the newspaper and I would have been in the [unclear] but Noel Coward who was like in charge of us, he was very conscious of keeping our privacy, he didn’t want that for us so he stopped that otherwise I would have had, you know, newspapers galore on what I was doing. It’s a shame.
LP: If June had stayed on , Noel Coward would have made sure that she had a good part.
JM: Gosh!
JP: No, he was like a father to me. Was fabulous.
JM: Amazing, yeah. Ok, we’ll come back to that because that obviously fits in with the story a bit further down the track, uhm, at the moment we just got you into England [laughs]
LP: Queen Elisabeth [unclear], because no escort at all
JM: You had no escort for [unclear], no.
LP: And one night, the Queen did a very quick, one hundred and eighty, three hundred and sixty degree turn because they knew there was a submarine, they were told there was a submarine after them, so I’m glad they had plenty of speed.
JM: Yes, that’s right. So you just did a massive turn around, you didn’t go by, there was one, I must check that, yes, there was one trip that actually went via Greenland. But because again a submarine concerns so did you either on this, on the Elisabeth did you meet, some of the chaps did watchers, did you do any, bridge watches or?
LP: Not on the Queen Elisabeth. But going from Australia to San Francisco, they loaded up guns and [unclear] as well because the war, looked like the Japanese could have come down from there on our way.
JM: But you didn’t do any bridge watch, some of the chaps did bridge watchers from the bridge. But no, so you just did some gunnery work, gunnery preparations on that over to San Fran, right, ok. So you ended up, from Halifax you ended Myles Standish, Bournemouth.
LP: Myles Standish, wasn’t that?
JM: That’s the departure before you went to
LP: Boston, wasn’t it?
JM: That be Boston, yeah, when you got onto the Elisabeth.
LP: Boston, we were held there for a few days and then went to New York onto the Queen Elisabeth.
JM: Yes, just, and so then into Bournemouth.
LP: Yes, held there for quite a while.
JM: About nearly two months basically in Bournemouth, so what sort of things were you doing in Bournemouth?
LP: Mainly parade and get a sport but we were bombed here.
JM: Really?
LP: We were bombed from the low level Focke Wulf, they got under the radar, they just fly over the water and it was a Sunday. If it hadn’t been a Sunday, half of us wouldn’t have been here because the parade ground was bombed. [unclear] my friend there, he got, [unclear] damaged, one thing or another, quite a few killed, civilians were killed at Bournemouth. Sunday the hotel was bombed, they couldn’t, they didn’t rescue anybody out there for a couple of days or two but they were having a great old time down the cellars [laughs].
JM: Down the cellars, well, at least they were safe, I suppose. And so, did your crew that you had been with, your New Zealander, your Canadian, they were all, they came across with you together on the plane, on the boat to Europe? And you’re at Bournemouth together?
LP: Yes, yes, no, I may have, my memory, I’m not too sure now whether it was just my observer and myself together and the wireless air gunner and the straight air gunner, we might have got together after the conversion onto Mitchells, I can’t quite remember that now.
JM: That’s alright, that’s ok. And.
LP: So, after we went after to Bicester.
JM: Towards had, no had two western first?
LP: Sorry?
JM: Tour western? Two western?
LP: Yeah, that’s right.
JM: Two western?
LP: Close to Bicester.
JM: Yeah well, in your entry you had two western then Bicester.
LP: Conversion onto the Mitchells [unclear].
JM: Mitchells.
LP: Two Western.
JM: And how did you find the difference between the Mitchell and the Ventura?
LP: Ah, beautiful aircraft, compared to the Ventura there’s no, hard to compare, the Mitchell was a beautiful aircraft.
JM: It was.
LP: I got a good one too, no, the aircraft varied but mine
JM: There were still two engine, weren’t they?
LP: Still two engines, yes.
JM: Yes. And what, you say they were beautiful aircraft, in what way?
LP: Well, we did a lot of formation flying again there and they were very responsive, very steady, fully aerobatic, not that we did any aerobatics with a bomber but they were capable of doing it. And Liberator, do you know the Liberator at all?
JM: No, not really, no.
LP: That’s a four engine.
JM: Four engine. Had another American one.
LP: The same that made the Liberator
JM: That made the Liberator
LP: Made the Mitchell
JM: Mitchell.
LP: And they are very similar, very similar. Matter of fact, those that went on to Liberators first went on to Mitchells to get the feel. Must show you, there probably a bit out of order but.
JM: Well how about we come back to that later on.
LP: Yeah, we’ll getting a bit thirsty
JM: Oh, ok, we will have a little bit of a.
LP: I mean, you, you must.
JM: No, no, I’m fine but we will just pause while you. We shall just continue on now with Lorrie has just shown me the book that Tony Vine has written on the history of the group of
LP: Group 20
JM: 20 course at Narromine.
LP: There were 50 of us.
JM: 50, so I’ll come, so I’ve seen the chapter on Lorrie which I will come back to afterwards. So, you were at
LP: [unclear]
JM: At Bournemouth.
LP: Yes.
JM: Sorry, then you went to Two Western and you were onto your Mitchell training here now.
LP: Yes, conversion onto.
JM: Yes, so, do you remember your crew there?
LP: Same.
JM: Same. Did you pick up an extra chap now?
LP: That’s where I think where I got the straight gunner, which was Starkey, he was another Canadian.
JM: Another Canadian.
LP: So I finished up with a New Zealander and two Canadians.
JM: Yeah, right, ok, and so from there, any particular experiences that come to mind when you were doing your conversion to your Mitchells?
LP: No, I think they, just the instructors started climbing up to twenty thousand feet and he wanted to demonstrate without our oxygen masks on and most of the chaps sort of passed out but I was very whizzy but I didn’t actually pass out. But, that’s one of, just off the top of my head, [laughs] not worth mentioning really.
JM: Right. Still showed you what would happen if you
LP: If you didn’t have your oxygen mask.
JM: If you didn’t have your oxygen mask, that’s right. So from there, uhm, off to Fulsome
LP: Swanton Morley?
JM: No, Folsom, briefly to start only three days, so, it was just a transit by the looks of the dates and from there Swanton Morley, so, Swanton Morley was you first posting, that was your when you were posted to 226 Squadron.
LP: That’s right.
JM: Yeah, so this was.
LP: Which is an RAF Squadron.
JM: An RAF Squadron, yes, that’s right. And so from, so you arrived at 226 in August ’43.
LP: That’d be right.
JM: August ’43, August ’43, ok and that’s when you started your operational activities?
LP: Yes, from Swanton Morley.
JM: Yes, ok and so, uhm, so mostly your ops were over Northern France, sort of?
LP: Yes, northern France, Holland and, mainly on the V1 sites, we didn’t know, they didn’t tell us what we were actually bombing, cause a big secret at the time. It just what they called a V1 bombing and nothing else, other things too but because these launching sites were right on the coast, crossing over, the flak was very heavy, just hop in and hop out as quickly as you could, drop your bombs.
JM: And so here you had, how many, need to go back to your, we go to the
LP: Operations?
JM: Operations, here, what sort of missions, ops?
LP: Well, as I was saying, they were mainly V1 we were
JM: V1.
LP: We were doing daylight bombings.
JM: Daylight bombings, yes, good, ok, so, any, how many times, do you have?
LP: Thirty ops was a tour.
JM: A tour, yes, that’s alright.
LP: A tour and at the end of the thirty ops I was asked to, would I do another ten ops, which I volunteered to do.
JM: Yes. So, that’s your assessments there, September, yes, so your first ops, your first ops started on the 19th of September basically by the looks of that and through there, lots of flights in between time affiliation flying and then November you really started doing, you really started into the ops, that’s 20th, 23rd, 25th, 26th, yep, 40th operation cooling [?]. So, what’s, any particular ops stand out in terms of, uhm, where, you know, little bit of flak here, we see in January, cloud over target did not bomb, so, French coast, cloud, what sort of, what sort of memories do you have of those ops there?
LP: There, only the amount of flak that was put up to just like the black cloud [unclear]
JM: Black cloud.
LP: And I got hit quite, my observer got shrapnel in his knee from the flak and my straight air gunner, he was up in the top turret and he, quite a big thing hit him behind but luckily it was the flat end that hit him, if it would have been the sharp end the side of, he probably would have been
JM: He probably would have been into trouble.
LP: Yes. Luckily the captain’s seat had armoured plating about that thick [unclear] at the back
JM: Right, so you were reasonably protected from.
LP: Yes, and we always wore a normal helmet, not helmet, see, metal hat, you know, we called it, we didn’t wear a cap so
JM: No, no.
LP: But, the ordinary ground soldiers a metal thing because of the flak, it might help us if a bit of metal came in.
JM: That’s right, and the injuries of those two chaps sustained, were they?
LP: They were in hospital
JM: They were in hospital, I say, it didn’t cause them to miss any ops or one or two ops that you had a substitute crew for or?
LP: No. [unclear]
JM: No, they didn’t miss
LP: We kept the same crew all the way through.
JM: All the way through, right, ok. And, did you have escorts? You said there was lots of flak, so did you still have escorts to provide you a bit of protection or?
LP: Well, as I said, the escorts were [unclear] fighters up to twenty thousand feet, we were bombing between ten thousand and fifteen thousand feet. Daylight bombing and so the escorts could see us from, but that be about ten or fifteen thousand feet
JM: Between you
LP: Between us and if any German fighters showed up they, with the height advantage,
JM: They would be able to come in down over the top of them and try to pick them off
LP: Yes. Keep them. They were herding us along quite nicely. But unlucky with that first Venturas when they didn’t show up and they eleven out of twelve were shot down.
JM: That’s right. So, how bigger Squadron was 226?
LP: It was quite a big squadron and there were about three or four at different stations, airfields, and for instance this called Halliday, was when I met June at the hotel, he was at another airfield, I can’t remember the name of it now, about three or four, there was even a Polish squadron, they made part of our wing, what they called our wing, and they were dreadful in that, they didn’t believe in, they flew straight in and low [laughs] all the time, because, you know, we were told, and it’s pretty true, that if you kept on a straight level flight for ten seconds or a little bit more than ten seconds, without changing your course or your height, you‘re bound to be knocked down. So we did a lot of course changing and height changing.
JM: That’s right. And whilst you were at the base there, uhm, what, at Swanton Morley, you would have some leave, what sort of things did you do whilst you were on leave at Swanton Morley?
LP: We were lucky that there was an organisation that, I’m trying to think of the organisation there that offered to take you into different homes in different parts of England and myself and a good friend of mine, Jack Barrel [?], who is another pilot, we both decided on going up to the Lake District and we loved it, we met a magnificent family up there, he was a soldier from World War I and he at the Battle of the Somme he had a leg shot off and his wife was a lovely Hewardson missy, Hewardson.
JP: They were lovely people.
LP: And that’s where we went up for our honeymoon, up to Kendal, Lake District, and we went and visited them, we just stayed at that hotel at Kendal in Lake District.
JM: Right. Gosh! And did you get back to them a couple of times?
LP: Yes, yes.
JM: So whilst you were at Swanton Morley, so having made the contact with this family, the Hewardsons, did you say it was?
LP: Hewardsons.
JM: Hewardsons, yes. And they, so you then went back.
LP: Very much [unclear] like part of the family up there. Made us very welcome, looked after us magnificently.
JM: Yes, yes, it’s interesting how these bonds did form and how much someone else has commented to me that you know how what an unknown contribution those families really made because of the support and the care that they gave, the service chaps was.
JP: It was amazing.
LP: Of course, something like Miss Macdonald and something about [unclear] and somewhere on the [unclear], was quite nice people, didn’t know them at all but that’s what the organisation was called.
JM: Right, so then you continued to
LP: We left Swanton Morley and went down to Camberley in tents. We were just about to go, D-Day was just about to come up.
JM: Yes, that’s what I’m going to say. What about D-Day, yes?
LP: Well, actually I just finished my tour, they called it, there’s a tour and a half but they called two tours tour because it went on to the extra ten ones, so I was on leave on D-Day.
JM: Right.
LP: In London I think.
JM: Right.
LP: But I then went on to the second [unclear] communication Squadron from there.
JM: Right. Right. So, so you finished your tour at, in beginning of June, before June basically, wasn’t it? It’s the tour the eleventh, that’s May 23, was basically the last op you did there? That when you and then you had your, you’ve been given your assessment on the 11th of June, which of course is after D-Day, so that’s why you were on leave for, well, on D-Day, so, yeah. So, you went, where did you have your leave? Were you down in London or were you up, up north?
LP: London, London on D-Day.
JM: Right, right. And were you in London at that point, June, or?
JP: I think so.
LP: Must have been.
JP: I must have been, yeah. Yes, I must have been, yes. We must have been together.
LP: I don’t know whether you had come back from America at that stage, do you remember what month it was that you came back? It wasn’t, I think it was after June that we met up again.
JP: We had a patch of two years so we didn’t see each other.
LP: Yes.
JM: Right, right, ok. So, could have been as part of that time there. Yes.
LP: Because I know what I mean, we got married on January the 4th, I remember that.
JP: 1945.
JM: Right.
LP: 1945.
JM: January 4th 1945 we were married.
LP: And we weren’t, it took a while before I [unclear] enough courage to ask her to marry me [laughs].
JP: Yes. And we were [unclear] together like three months before that. And before that I was in, I must have been in America.
JM: Yes, yes, yes.
LP: And I was at, based at Northolt.
JM: Yes. Because you, in June you switched to Ansons so did you do a conversion course to the Ansons or was it similar to, from the?
LP: No, hardly necessary. Just another [unclear], the two on the Ansons, the Anson was twin engine, but is only used as a communication aircraft really.
JM: Right, ok, so this was the start of your other Squadron posting, was it?
LP: Yes.
JM: And what was that Squadron called?
LP: 2nd TAF communications squadron.
JM: Right, and so that was Northolt.
LP: They had [unclear]
JM: Yeah, ok. So, that was. So actually you were at 226 moved to Hartford Bridge from Swanton Morley.
LP: Yes, that’s right, yes, that’s right.
JM: So, you’re still flying there, you’re still flying ops at that stage.
LP: Yeah.
JM: It’s just that you change bases there.
LP: Yes.
JM: Yeah, ok. So, with the TAF on communication, what was that involving?
LP: Mainly, flying quite higher people from on aerodrome to the other. Ten days after D-Day I was flying across the Channel with generals and
JM: You were attached to Montgomery’s headquarters.
LP: Yeah, but [unclear] you’re getting too far ahead, June.
JP: Am I? Ah, but that’s what you were doing.
LP: But we were doing a lot of work based in Northolt, flying to different airfields in England, mainly carrying VIPs from one place to the other, carrying some mail from one place to the other, but I think I ran about the tenth, ten days after D-Day which would be, what, 16th? I was flying across the Channel with VIPs.
JM: Right.
LP: And then shortly after the whole communication squadron went across [unclear] and we were based in the beachhead, close to the beachhead, beachhead.
JM: Right. So, that was, yeah, so you were in France and then Belgium. So, from, in August, you had one month in France.
LP: Yeah.
JM: And then three months in Belgium.
LP: That’s right. Yeah. And during that three months, a part of, got three or four weeks, myself and two other pilots were attached to Montgomery’s headquarters and do take his majors up to frontline and get information back and bring that back too.
JM: Right, so. That, August, yes, so, looking at your logbook again, yes it doesn’t quite give us the details it, just tells that you went like in August you went to a whole pile of interesting, Elson [?], Chartres and in another flight you had Reims, Saint Mo [?] and return, so you were obviously visiting forward posts in there to pick up information and then drop staff and that sort of thing there, so, yes, how was that as an experience compared to your fighting operation shall we call?
LP: It is virtually called a rest period, rest period really but we were open to enemy attack at any time.
JM: Did you have any escorts at that time? How many of you were, you just a single plane?
LP: A single plane.
JM: A single plane, so didn’t have any escort or anything like that. You and your rescue were on your own resources in terms of keeping watch for anything.
LP: Yes, well, I didn’t have a crew then.
JM: Oh, ok, you were only.
LP: When I left the squadron, finished the operations, that was the end of the crew.
JM: Right, ok.
LP: So, it was just you.
LP: And other pilots, they were all.
JM: Just a mix of second pilots, just like a two, two men crew running.
LP: Well, wasn’t even a two men crew. We were flying lighter aircraft and it was the one crew flying the passengers virtually.
JM: Oh, ok, so you didn’t actually even have like a second pilot or anything, was just you as the pilot and the passengers that you were ferrying.
LP: Even the Anson which was twin engine thing, you just flew that by yourself. I even accepted that the time I had Prince Bernard [?] in Canada he, we were in Brussels at the time, and he wanted to go to Eindhoven and I was chosen to fly him there in the Anson and he and his couple of aids there and general, a couple of generals there and they sat down in the back and he wanted to sit up alongside of me and Prince Bernard [?] and took off and the old Anson in those days, you had to wind the undercarriage up and it took off and he said, oh, I’ll do that and he wound the undercarriage up for me [laughs]. Very nice chap.
JM: And did you ever meet Montgomery?
LP: I can’t say that I actually met him. No, it’s a wonder I didn’t because as I say there were three of us with these light aircraft attached to his headquarters and one Sunday morning, it must have been a Sunday morning and the English Townsend, Johnny Townsend, were having a bit of a rivalry amongst us and we went up, and we had a bit of a dogfight, you know, [unclear] treetop level and we were doing [unclear] and having a real good older, I won by the way because I and he admitted that I was coming inside him on the turns [unclear], we landed and very shortly after there was a VIP attached to Montgomery that came up and said: ‘What have [unclear] I had a lot of trouble, you’re in a lot of trouble because there was, Montgomery was very religious type of chap and he was carrying out the church parade and of course we were flying [laughs].
JM: The church creating a racket.
LP: And disturbed his church service and we weren’t very popular then [laughs].
JM: Oh dear, oh dear.
LP: So, that’s one incident that happened.
JM: And so, it was quite a different experience than for you to be doing.
LP: We [unclear] as a rest period, weren’t nearly in so much danger really, except we often had to keep our eyes open all the time because we were as far as the aircraft went, we were very much on top of the Germans, from D-Day on the German Air Force didn’t trouble us very much.
JM: So, what, you had quite a number of flights in that capacity. So you went through until December ’44 was the end of Belgium and then from there you were down to Brighton and obviously you had some leave at that point because if you then went and got married in January, beginning of January ’45, your time in Brighton was December ’44 to February ’45 so you had some leave and you got married. Where were you married, in London?
LP: Yes. West Hampstead, wasn’t it?
JP: West Hampstead.
JM: Right. Right. Very good.
LP: And then we had the honeymoon up in Kendal, in the Lake District [laughs].
JM: Back with the Hewardsons again.
JP: Yes.
LP: That’s right.
JM: Yes, so that [unclear] marvellous and so, then you came back on the Rangitiki.
LP: Rangitiki, New Zealand ship.
JM: And did you come, you wouldn’t have come as well?
JP: [unclear] travelled.
JM: Travelled together.
JP: It was terrible because English [unclear] was good. But not the Australians. It was terrible.
JM: No.
LP; A well, I can tell you something about that. The Australians they couldn’t take their wireless back with them, but the New Zealanders did and when we got on board, and the New Zealanders were there [unclear] I was very hurt about that. Yes, would have made a big difference.
JP: [unclear] went first, it was several months before I was pregnant which he didn’t know about.
LP: I didn’t know about [unclear].
JP: Until I saw him again and it was terrible for me cause I had to wait in England for months.
LP: And June was very lucky to be allowed to travel being pregnant.
JM: Yes, well, there was a cut-off time before they.
JP: I got
LP: June had the influence of her grandfather.
JP: My grandfather he was head of the [unclear] shipping company.
JM: Oh, ok.
JP: And only through him did a get a birth I mean cause they’d never allow somebody expecting a baby on the ship anyway during the war.
JP: There were a couple of others that I know of that came through as pregnant, when they were pregnant but yes.
LP: But June was, Richard was born in October.
JP: Several months when I came.
LP: By the time we landed in Sydney, you were what? Seven months pregnant?
JP: Yes, seven months pregnant.
JM: Yes, seven months. And so then you were finally discharged, so you came through on the Rangitiki and then you were discharged
LP: October.
JM: October ’45. Yes. Just saying a bit of note here that is going to sort of jump out of sequence here which but when you were in 226, so you finished up in June, June ’44 we said, wasn’t it? That was your last op, yes, that was last op ’44, so were you, which plane were you on one plane only when you were in 226 or did you fly two or three different planes?
LP: No, only Mitchells, I only flew the Mitchells there and I had my own aircraft.
JM: You had your own aircraft, yes. No, it’s just that I noticed when I was looking up 226 to try and find out a little bit about 226 because I’d never come across 226 previously and one of the notes there said that there was a P for Peter, was a distinguished plane in 226 because it was the only Mitchell that completed one hundred ops. And I didn’t know whether you had ever flown on P for Peter or whether you would, if you’d happen to remember any one who might have flown on P for Peter.
LP: I can’t quite remember either. Does it tell you the aircraft?
JM: It probably does if I actually go back and have a look.
LP: When I was on leave towards the end in my tour, while you are on leave somebody else couldn’t fly your aircraft.
JM: Yes.
LP: And somebody did and the undercarriage didn’t come down when it went in to land, so he landed without a nose wheel, because Mitchells had nose wheels, he did a, he got his crew to go down the back and he finished his landing alone and he kept the nose off the ground all the time, got the ground crew to come out to pull the nose wheel struck down and they did but they didn’t [unclear] and when they were towing it away it came down
JM: Collapsed.
LP: It crashed. Oh, I was so annoyed. I did get another aircraft, a newer aircraft with newer engines, but it wasn’t nearly as nice to fly as the, H for Harry, I’ll bet you’ll find those.
JM: Well actually no, you, all you got is numbers so, I haven’t got any letters unfortunately.
LP: I’m sure there’s H for Harry anyhow.
JM: H for Harry, was it, there you go, no, there’s no letters, there’s just numbers, so. But anyway that’s alright.
LP: H, I’m sure there’s H, wasn’t Peter.
JM: Wasn’t Peter, right. So, back in, you were discharged as we said in December.
LP: October.
JM: October ’45, sorry, and because you arrived, which is a long time after you arrived back, cause you arrived back in March ’45 so.
LP: Yes, we refreshed the course [unclear]
JM: Oh, did you?
LP: Yes, on Oxford and then we went down to East Sale to do a pre endorsement on Beauforts.
JM: Right, because I suppose at that stage they were concerned about, you might have been going off to Asia, were you? For
JP: Yes.
LP: Yes, but before that I was going to go from the Beauforts on to Mosquitos at Williamtown.
JM: Right.
LP: And then the war ended.
JM: Ended.
LP: I wanted to get on to Mosquitos to [laughs]
JP: Yes. That was his love.
JM: Right.
LP: Yes, well I, yes, initially it was Spitfires but at the end, towards the end Mosquitos were lovely aircraft.
JM: Right, right. So did you actually fly?
LP: Mosquitos?
JM: No.
LP: I didn’t even get the posting to Williamtown.
JM: No, no.
LP: East Sale, you know where East Sale is?
JM: Yes, down Victoria.
LP: Victoria. That’s where the beau fighters were.
JM: Beau fighters were.
LP: No, not beau fighters, Beauforts, Beauforts.
JM: Beauforts, Beauforts. Right.
LP: And I did finish the course there and as I say the war ended then. [phone ringing] Thanks June.
JM: So, yes, so, well, that’s interesting that you had all that extra training [unclear]
LP: Excuse me, I gotta, he’s gonna call me back.
JM: Go back, so, then having done all these extra bits of training it never came to anything as such and the war ended so you were finally discharged in October ’45.
LP: Yes.
JM: And by which time June had arrived I assume, yes, yes.
LP: Yes, produced our son.
JM: Yes, your son.
JP: I had him at October 9th 1945.
JM: Right, right, so that was just before you were discharged, ok, uhm, and you were in Sydney here at that point.
JP: Yes.
LP: No, no, you were up at Burrell.
JP: Up at Burrell? Oh, sorry, I, when you said Sydney I meant Australia. Yes, I was up at Burrell.
LP: No, my parents were retired in a place up at Burrell, near [unclear], Gloucester Way.
JM: Ok, right, so there.
JP: So basically I was when I had the baby.
JM: Right, right, ok, so, that would have been a bit of a shock to the system and the whole country town there.
LP: It was, no telephone,
JP: I got on the phone and said to people in England and New York, I said, well look I’m up here, there’s no phone, no electricity, no toilet inside [unclear] [laughs].
JM: Dunny is down the back.
LP: Was a bit of a shock.
JP: [unclear]
LP: But I had told her what to expect.
JP: Oh yes, I wasn’t, you know, [unclear], I did it with fun.
JM: Yes, yes.
LP: Was lovely, June settled in there beautifully.
JP: Oh yes, no, they were lovely to me. When I first arrived, of course being a little English girl, I was all white,
JM: White, that’s right.
JP: And just, they went, ah, [laughs], who’s this? Where does she come from? [laughs]
LP: And June could make up beautifully and she looked lovely anyhow but all the local girls [unclear]
JP: Who’s this? [laughs] Where did she come from?
JM: That’s right, yes.
JP: What planet? [laughs]
JM: Yes, exactly. And so, when did you start your chartered business? You showed
LP: The air taxi.
JM: Air taxi out of Bankstown.
LP: Yes.
JM: Was that the first thing you did after the war?
LP: The first job that I went into, organized setting up the air taxi. I met a chap, a country chap that he and his wife looking for something of interest, they were pretty well off and we got on very well together and we went down to Canberra and saw Dragford [?], who is a politician and he managed to get two light aircraft from the RAAF at Richmond. So we got hold of [unclear], picked one up, all [unclear] up nicely and start to operate from then.
JM: So did you, whereabouts in Sydney were you living at this point? Were you out near Bankstown or were you travelling out there?
LP: Yes, yes, there was another airport chap that I got to know, at Dauphin quite well, and his parents were living at Bankstown at the time
JM: Right.
LP: And they put us up there until their daughter was born and then
JM: Yeah, right.
JP: [unclear] was born.
JM: Right, right.
LP: Yes, very kind of them.
JM: Yes, yes. So, and you, I think you said three or four years did you have your charter business for?
LP: Ah, about a year and a half.
JM: Year and a half was it? Right.
LP: It was all, because before we went broke.
JM: Right.
JP: Did the guard man threaten to put out some cost, which would put us out of business?
LP: Yes, I said we’re gonna charge [unclear] in air mile
JP: And then they were gonna put it up. And that would have put us out of business. So we had to give it away.
LP: I interviewed [unclear] and Mr Butler, whose Butler Airlines at that stage, he thought we could combine quite well but as [unclear] couldn’t carry on. I even took a couple just to keep this going in, even took a couple of jobs with [unclear] I think it was and the other place, in George Street down the hill.
JM: Down the hill?
LP: Down the hill from George Street near central.
JM: Oh, Mark Foyes?
LP: No, in George Street.
JM: Oh, George Street.
LP: George Street, was a well known
JM: Hordens?
JP: Hordens? Anthony Hordens?
JM: Anthony Hordens?
LP: Anthony Hordens? Yes, I was in, I didn’t smoke, so I got a job in the smoking factory.
JM: Oh, in the tobacco section.
LP: Selling cigarettes and so. Because they always had their battered up tins of cigarettes, fifty, used to be the old fifty tins in those days. And any ones that got battered, they virtually sold them and at this stage I was keen to get into Qantas so I used to do, every week go down to the recruitment place in Qantas and with my tins, battered tins of cigarettes and the recruitment officer, he was a smoker and he bought these battered tins from me every week which is quite [unclear]
JM: Had a little bit of a discount.
LP: Yes, a big discount. So, I think that helped me get into Qantas.
JM: Nothing like a little bit of encouragement.
LP: Exactly, exactly.
JM: For favourable, to view your credentials favourably.
LP: Yes.
JM: Well I mean, you did have the right credentials, let’s face it, so, I mean, that, yes.
LP: There were so many ex Air Force men who wanted to get in
JM: Yes, but they had the pick of the whole field, really.
LP: They did, they did.
JM: So, yes, yes. So, you joined up into Qantas in?
LP: Yes, 28th of March I think it was, 1948.
JM: Right, ok. So, then you started, you were doing domestic or international?
LP: No, international. At the same I was applying to TAA at the same time and they both came and said, come and see us. But the idea of just flying up Sydney, Melbourne, Sydney, Melbourne didn’t really appeal to me.
JM: Taxi run.
LP: And Qantas sounded a lot nicer to me. Don’t say good for June I suppose. Because overseas
JM: Because overseas, periods of absence, yes.
LP: We got two, sometimes three up to Japan because the Korean War had started then. And we took on the Skymaster DC4 we used to fly up to there and the troops landed there and their air force up there, [unclear], and you’d be up to three weeks away, probably because you had to wait for [unclear] ex-service people.
JM: Right. And so how long were you with Qantas for?
LP: Thirty years.
JM: Thirty years. Gosh!
LP: Yes. Thirty years with Qantas.
JM: So, you would have seen quite a number of changes in that time. Obviously, with different planes and
LP: Start off on the DC3 and then went on to the Skymaster DC4, the Superconny, Super Constellation, wasn’t very long and then went on to the 707, Boeing 707 and then the last five years I was on the Jumbo 747.
JM: 747, yes. And have you flown on the A380s at all?
LP: Yes. I have, as passenger.
JM: As passenger. Yes, yes, well that would have been a change again. From the 747.
LP: Like going to [unclear] on the [unclear]. Amazing.
JM: That’s right. And so, once you retired from Qantas in ’78, anything, did you do anything in particular after?
LP: Oh yes, I bought a farm. [laughs]
JM: Bought a farm, right.
LP: Yes, that’s why we just sold, that’s why everything in the dining room down there is chock-a-block. My son also owns another property out in the country and he’s had a big shed that with nothing in there and that’s chock-a-block.
JP: That’s chock-a-block. We’ve got stuff out there that [unclear] what we’re gonna do.
LP: And my son also has a place at [unclear] that’s painting off
JP: That’s his [unclear]
JM: Oh, it’s beautiful.
LP: Two people there during the night.
JM: Oh my goodness!
LP: Great grandchildren.
JP: The artist just did that for us.
JM: Lovely!
JP: That’s the back of the house.
LP: We’ve got the others to go down there and paint it.
JM: Paint it, gosh!
LP: Oh, he’s got a beautiful place!
JP: Oh, it’s beautiful.
JM: And whereabouts is your farm?
LP: At Burrell, near [unclear].
JM: Oh, back in, family, back in where your parents were, so, right.
LP: What happened was in about 1977 [unclear], no ’74, was that Dad came, he said, why don’t you buy the land around us, it was off the sale but 160 acers all together and buy that and when we go, it looks like they were going to go fairly soon, we will leave you the little house and leave you, make a nice little property for you when we go. So that’s what we did. I’m just about to buy a lovely home at Lake Macquarie.
JM: Oh, ok.
LP: Wangi Wangi.
JM: Wangi Wangi, yes, yes.
LP: It’s a waterfront [unclear] a little pathway.
JM: Yes, yes.
LP: People like to use the pathway on the other side of this bay and Dad came up with this offer and I can see we could help them at the same time and we changed over.
JM: Lovely. Oh, that’s a beautiful area up there I mean.
LP: It is.
JP: Magnificent.
LP: My mother came from this little township called Burrell, [unclear] Newcastle.
JM: Yes, that’s right. So, you had a very varied and interesting life.
LP: Very much so.
JM: And during, from your wartime experiences would you say there’s any one sequence of events that stays with you perhaps more than others or? One event or?
LP: Can’t say, can’t say. No, can’t say anything. I, we, the CO just before at the end of the tour recommended me for a DFC and then when he left the new CO came in, he called me and he said: ‘Oh, look, here’s this recommendation for a DFC, he said, well, I don’t know anything about you, but can you tell me what you did so we can write up a citation with, I said, I couldn’t think of anything, really [laughs]. And he said: ‘You write what you think might be the best thing in [unclear] the DFC, I said, oh, I thought is not a war to go on yet and I said, just leave it. And he wrote in and I got mentioned a special [unclear] left at then. But an AFC, an Air Force Cross I could have written down something and then because, you know, in formation with head boxers and six, I don’t know if you had, one leading aircraft had one formation on this side and then another one over there and then another one down here with two chaps, you’d have six aircraft all in one box of six, you’d re following me there?
JM: Yes, I am.
LP: And if you went up through cloud then, the idea was everybody to alter course 30 degrees for [unclear] and then climb up through the cloud and break through the clouds up and open it all the aircraft all over the place there and form one again [?]. Well, we had one chap, a fairly high air force official came to our squadron, he said, you know, the fighters, they four made up the fighters coming a lot closer and they form up and they go through the cloud in formation so the CO heard about that and he got a flight Lieutenant and said, give it a try and I’d hear about this and so the next time this went up through the cloud and I stuck in and kept formation all the way up through there and the other chap, that, this flight Lieutenant, he couldn’t do at the end the breakaway so I came up, oh, I was the only one that kept in formation. Well, [unclear] I could have written up something about that, an AFC. That’s the only other experience I can pass on to you.
JM: And what about down the years, did you manage to stay in touch with your New Zealand and Canadian crew chaps or?
LP: Not the Canadians, the, we went to a holiday, a bit of a holiday over in New Zealand and I met up with my observer then. Oh, by the way that business of flying through the clouds, after they found out that it could be done, after that all the operations, that they went up through cloud, we all formed up and went through in formation.
JM: You stayed in formation.
LP: After [unclear]
JM: So you brought about a change of procedure so to speak.
LP: Yes.
JM: And so the chap, Dennis, Dennis
LP: Lez Witham.
JM: Lez Witham.
LP: Lez Witham was my observer.
JM: Right.
LP: He was at Duneaton [?].
JM: And so you managed to keep in contact with him a little bit.
LP: A little bit.
JM: Post war.
LP: He became a, bonds, he was a
JM: Stock broker.
LP: Stock broker, yes, he became a stock broker.
JM: Right. Interesting.
LP: [unclear] when you get old, you can’t remember names [unclear].
JM: We’re talking about so long ago and so many thing have happened in the years [unclear] that’s quite, But the fact is that, you know, those experiences, the nitty gritties of the experiences stay with you and while some of the finer details may not necessarily be there, the whole overall experience is very much still part and parcel of you.
LP: But names of people [unclear] I mean you can’t and June is even worse than I am, terribly [unclear]. I told you about five times I don’t take milk in tea and I like milk in my coffee and but she asks me every time [unclear]
JM: Ah well, she is always planning for a change of taste, that’s what it is. [unclear] And did you keep in touch with any of, like training type people that you were trained with or did you make up, come because of being in Qantas you would have met up with a lot of service personnel, did?
LP: Not Air Force,
JM: Not Air Force.
LP: But of course, except my wireless air gunner, he married and we had a few [unclear] from her and sometime years ago now and she used to correspond a bit [unclear] and as I say, the observer, New Zealand observer we but the straight air gunner, no, he didn’t, didn’t hear anything from him. He was a character, he was only a short stocky Canadian, he was a real toughy [unclear], he was a good air gunner, [unclear] I liked the chap, I liked him.
JM: Well, that’s what you want, you want someone who is good at, everyone had to be good at their own jobs. That was part and parcel of the survival of the crew, I think, wasn’t it?
LP: Yes.
JM: Yes, so, and that you may not necessarily be best of buddies but you were able to work together and have that cohesion that was required to be a good team, to survive.
LP: I never had any trouble with my crew at all so very good, very good.
JM: I know it’s hard work so I do appreciate you were sharing some memory, many memories with me.
LP: It’s hard work trying to remember [unclear] no, I enjoyed it because it brings to day sort of [unclear] quite a few [unclear].
JP: Lovely memories.
LP: I wish I had this Mitchell, we had the whole squadron in front of a Mitchell and where that photo is.
JM: It’s in one of your boxes. You’ll find it one day, it will turn.
LP: Tony Vine has got, he took a lot of photos
JM: Photos
JP: We’ve got a lot of boxes in there.
LP: Yes, but he took a lot of photos to
JM: To put into the book.
LP: Yes, to put into the book.
JM: Well, if nothing else, we might wrap up then if there is anything else, unless there’s anything else that you can think of, that you want to mention.
LP: Can you think of anything else, June?
JP: No, no.
JM: So, we’ll wrap it up as I say and I.
LP: June wants to bring up the bird strike business with the Qantas of course but.
JP: Oh, not really. We’ll leave it.
LP: Ok. You brought it up, you brought it up.
JP: I know, but, definitely yes.
LP: We had a bird strike on a Jumbo Jet taking off from Sydney and it looked like we lost two engines on one side, during take-off. Luckily, number 4 engine came good again, otherwise it looked we were going to ditch in Botany Bay.
JM: Interesting.
LP: We came good [unclear] jettison, we were going to Singapore at the time, with about 300 passengers on board. So, we dumped our fuel and while we were dumping our fuel, of course that takes some time, [unclear] on the ground and engineering and they prepared another aircraft while we were dumping to go on to London eventually and Philip, Prince Philip, he’s been a night.
JM: Have you been sick?
JP: Yes, he’s been in hospital. For two days.
LP: And actually in 1963 we had a basing with Qantas, a four year basing in London to fly from London to New York and in 1963 the Commonwealth Games were on and he opened them, but I flew from London to New York.
JM: Oh good!
LP: And there’s a photograph over there that he gave to me heading up on the flight deck landing into New York.
JM: Into New York, he was like that,
LP: Yes.
JM: Even though he was a naval man. But he, I think he was very interested in
LP: He had a helicopter, so I [unclear] fly a helicopter, I asked him, when I first saw him, was I asked him, how as it like to fly a helicopter, he said it was like rubbing your head in [unclear] or vice versa. He was very down to earth, very down to earth, Prince Philip.
JM: That’s interesting, yeah, so, obviously you landed successfully back in Sydney and by which time the plane, the new, the replacement plane was ready so you just walked off and did you then crew that, fly or did they say that you’d done enough hours, that you had exceeded your hours by the time?
LP: I’d flown him from, you’re right, I’d run out of flight time. Actually we’d flown from London to New York and then [unclear] arrival on the minute and they reported right back to the CO to London, couldn’t imagine, can’t imagine how I came from London to New York and arriving on schedule to the very minute.
JM: A feather in your cap then for managing to do that, yes, that was wonderful.
LP: So there’s one of the things that come to mind.
JM: Mind, yes, so, four years in London would have been an interesting experience, so you
JP: Ah, it was wonderful. It was really possibly one of the best times of our life, with young children [unclear] growing up.
LP: We had a lovely double story home in [unclear] Water,
JP: [unclear] Water.
LP: Near the park.
JP: Pardon?
LP: Near the park.
JP: Yes.
LP: What’s the name? Buckingham, not Buckingham.
JM: St James?
LP: Windsor Park.
JM: Windsor Park. Right.
JP: Near Windsor Park. Ah, it was absolutely beautiful. We had the most wonderful four year posting, and the kids were the right age, weren’t they?
LP: Yes.
JP: Just entering their teens.
LP: And we would take them on holiday, over to, over to Europe.
JM: Over to the continent. And around and they gave you a chance to see your family again, I presume.
JP: Oh yes. No, it was absolutely fantastic. Couldn’t have asked for a better posting than that. No, we loved that.
JM: Would have been a lovely time for four years.
LP: I could have extended that posting for another two years except that our son and daughter, our son was eighteen and our daughter was
JP: Sixteen or something.
LP: Sixteen or seventeen. I thought that if we stayed another two years, they’ve never gone back to Australia.
JP: Back to Australia. You know, they would have got [unclear]
JM: Yes.
LP: So we came back and of course my parents weren’t very well.
JM: Very well by that stage, so [unclear]
JP: We did the right thing because it was for your parents mainly. Yes, no, it was the right thing to do.
LP: Yes, so, all. No, could we offer you a bit of afternoon tea now?
JM: Thank you, we will just wrap up here though, and just formally say once again thank you Lorrie very much and June for your contributions, it’s been so thank you indeed.
LP: It’s lovely talking to somebody that’s interested.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
APennL170622
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lawrence Penn
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:48:11 audio recording
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending OH summary
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jean Macartney
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-22
Description
An account of the resource
Lawrence Penn grew up in Australia and worked as a bank clerk before he volunteered for the Air Force. He flew 40 operations as a pilot with 226 Squadron. After the war he had his own air taxi company and also flew for Qantas.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Canada
Great Britain
United States
England--Norfolk
New York (State)--New York
New York (State)
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Peter Schulze
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
226 Squadron
aircrew
B-25
bombing
crewing up
love and romance
mid-air collision
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
pilot
RAF Hartford Bridge
RAF Swanton Morley
RAF Turweston
rivalry
Second Tactical Air Force
training
V-1
V-weapon
Ventura
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/5780/PCavalierRG17010007.2.jpg
358b95ffba45824c9947d28cad1edee8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Operations boards
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is of the operations board for 76 Squadron.
Photograph 2 is of the operations board for 78 Squadron 30 May 1942.
They are captioned: 'Operations Board, Target Cologne Germany, June 1942. 76 Squadron, 78 Squadron, Halifax A/C. R.A.F. Middleton St. George, Yorkshire'.
Photograph 3 is of the operations board for 226, 88 and 342 Squadrons. Captioned: 'Operations Board 10/11 June 1943. 226 Squadron, Mitchell A/C. 88 Squadron, Boston A/C . 342 Squadron Lorraine, (Free French) Boston A/C R.A.F. West Raynham, Norfolk.'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-06
1943-06-10
1943-06-11
1942-05-30
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010007
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Free French Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--Durham (County)
England--Norfolk
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-06
1943-06-10
1943-06-11
1942-05-30
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Darren Sheerin
226 Squadron
342 Squadron
76 Squadron
78 Squadron
88 Squadron
B-25
bombing
Boston
Halifax
operations room
RAF Middleton St George
RAF West Raynham
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/5790/PCavalierRG17010013.2.jpg
ccf3a064b54f6f3b471121d1b71cf9a5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Colombelles steel works, Arnhem, and Breskens fort
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is of a vertical of Colombelles steel works marshalling yard. Much of the ground is obscured by cloud and bomb explosions. There is a Boston with invasion stripes in the top half of the image. It is annotated '5018 F342 134 22 Jun 44 8"// F A0976 10,000 ← '.
Photograph 2 is of the same marshalling yard, cloud free but bomb explosions in the bottom left corner where there is a large number of industrial buildings.
Photograph 3 is of the same area with bomb explosions in the same area.
Photograph 4 is of Arnhem with a bridge in the bottom centre. The Rhine runs through the centre of the image. The image is annotated '5009' and captioned 'Arnham [sic], Holland. (Bridge). 88Sqd, Boston A/C.'
Photograph 5 is a section of coastline near Breskens with a harbour. There are bomb explosions and smoke obscuring much of the lower half of the photograph. At the top is a star (trace italienne) fort. Captioned '5023 225/583 11SEP44 8"//B A0450 12,000' ↑'. Captioned '11. Sept 1944. French Coast, 226 Sqd, Mitchell A/C.'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-06-22
1944-09-11
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five b/w photographs on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010013
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocated
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Netherlands
Netherlands--Arnhem
Netherlands--Breskens
France
France--Caen
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
226 Squadron
88 Squadron
aerial photograph
B-25
bombing
Boston
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/6104/PCavalierRG17010050.1.jpg
bc7e42fc836e8fcdf0e783c6d7b926e9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
First Mitchell to reach 100 Operations
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is the crew of the B-25.
Photograph 2 is the crew of the B-25 adding the letters 100 to the aircraft's nose art.
Photograph 3 is a group of airmen round the nose of the aircraft. They are captioned '226 Sqd, 1st Mitchell A/C to complete 100 Operational raids in 2 Group T.A.F.2. 12/4/45. R.A.F. Vitry en Artois, Northern France.'
Pilot Stanley Wilks RNZAF (far left) with his crew.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-04-12
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010050
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Vitry-en-Artois
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-04-12
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
226 Squadron
aircrew
B-25
ground personnel
nose art
Second Tactical Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/6112/PCavalierRG17010059.1.jpg
ee8b1ae9447f891e5bb1361dcea7ce47
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
226 Squadron B-25s over Germany
Description
An account of the resource
Photographs 1 to 4 are air-to-air views of B-25s, captioned '226 Sqd, Mitchell A/C; in flight over Germany, June 1945.'
Photograph 5 is of a Mosquito, close to the ground, undercarriage down.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five b/w photographs on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010059
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-06
Language
A language of the resource
eng
226 Squadron
B-25
Mosquito
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/6113/PCavalierRG17010060.2.jpg
2ac17f0299657a8a16e72a3fbf8d9188
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
B-25, Boston, Stranraer
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is of a B-25, undercarriage down, low level, port side, captioned 'Whitley A/C. R.A.F. Middleton St George, 1941'.
Photograph 2 is of the starboard side of a Boston 'P', in flight, captioned Boston A/C. R.A.F. Hartford Bridge. 1944. 88 Sqd F/L Bance, W/O Gill, P/O Hastings.'
Photograph 3 is a Stranraer seaplane, K7292, 'P', at its moorings.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941
1944
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010060
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1944
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Hampshire
England--Durham (County)
Language
A language of the resource
eng
88 Squadron
B-25
Boston
RAF Hartford Bridge
RAF Middleton St George
Stranraer
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/367/6114/PCavalierRG17010061.1.jpg
6041c02e5633c34e8ac868259cfab553
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cavalier, Reginald George. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
57 items. Photograph album showing pictures taken during Reginald George Cavalier's service as a squadron photographer. It includes material from his photographic course training in 1940, and service with 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George, and with 88 Squadron and 226 Squadron with 2 Group and 2nd Tactical Air Force at RAF West Raynham. The album also includes target photographs, images of Christmas parties, visits by VIPs including Eisenhower and the King, as well as captured German ordnance and aircraft in France, the Netherlands and Germany.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cavalier, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
RAF Aircraft
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is an air-to-air view of a Boston in flight with six more in the distance, captioned 'Boston A/C. 342 Sqd Lorraine, Free French.'
Photograph 2 is of a line of Bostons on the ground, captioned 'Boston A/C. 107 Sqd.'
Photograph 3 is of a line of Typhoons. The closest is coded DP-D, 193 Squadron.
Photograph 4 is of the port side of a B-25, OA-L, captioned 'Mitch A/C, 226 Sqd.'
Photographs 5, 6 and 7 are air-to-air views of B-25s in flight and dropping bombs, captioned 'Mitchell A/C. 226 Sqd on Ops.'
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Seven b/w photographs on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCavalierRG17010061
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Free French Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
107 Squadron
193 Squadron
226 Squadron
342 Squadron
B-25
bombing
Boston
Typhoon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/377/6710/LDawsonSR142531v2.2.pdf
49c83001650f4a5f72ee40cfc1a96250
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stephen Dawson's pilot's flying log book. Two
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LDawsonSR142531v2
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Stephen Dawson, covering the period from 6 April 1942 to 30 August 1944. Detailing his instructor duties, flying training and operations flown. He was stationed at RAF Swanton Morley, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Swinderby, RAF Wigsley, RAF Bourn, RAF Gransden Lodge, RAF Market Harborough, RAF Silverston and RAF Boscombe Down. Aircraft flown in were, Oxford, Wellington, Lancaster, Boston, Mitchell, Buckingham, Marauder, Halifax, Liberator, Harvard, Avenger, Defiant, Barracuda, Hampden, Black Widow, Hurricane and Mosquito. He flew a total of 32 Night operations with 97 Squadron. Targets were, Krefeld, Mulheim, Wuppertal, Cologne, Gelsenkirchen, Hamburg, Essen, Nurnburg, Milan, Leverkusen, Berlin, Mannheim, Munich, Hannover, Frankfurt, Fredrichshaven, Modane, Cannes and Ludwigshaven. The log book included pictures of examples of some of the aircraft flown, also handwritten list of targets and bomb loads.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Northamptonshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
England--Wiltshire
France--Cannes
France--Modane
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Friedrichshafen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Mülheim an der Ruhr
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Wuppertal
Italy--Milan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1943-06-23
1943-06-24
1943-06-25
1943-06-28
1943-06-29
1943-07-03
1943-07-04
1943-07-08
1943-07-09
1943-07-10
1943-07-24
1943-07-25
1943-07-26
1943-07-27
1943-07-28
1943-07-29
1943-07-30
1943-08-02
1943-08-03
1943-08-10
1943-08-11
1943-08-12
1943-08-13
1943-08-22
1943-08-23
1943-08-24
1943-09-05
1943-09-06
1943-09-07
1943-09-22
1943-09-23
1943-09-24
1943-09-27
1943-09-28
1943-10-02
1943-10-03
1943-10-04
1943-10-05
1943-10-07
1943-10-08
1943-10-09
1943-10-22
1943-10-23
1943-11-03
1943-11-04
1943-11-10
1943-11-11
1943-11-12
1943-11-17
1943-11-18
1943-11-19
1943-11-22
1943-11-23
14 OTU
1654 HCU
97 Squadron
aircrew
B-24
B-25
B-26
bombing
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
Boston
Defiant
Halifax
Hampden
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hurricane
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Mosquito
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
pilot
RAF Boscombe Down
RAF Bourn
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Gransden Lodge
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Silverstone
RAF Swanton Morley
RAF Swinderby
RAF Wigsley
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/377/6711/LDawsonSR142531v3.2.pdf
f1359ce7683613fc3af56ef7cf471088
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stephen Dawson's pilot's flying log book. Three
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LDawsonSR142531v3
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
one booklet
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Pilot's flying log book for Flight Lieutenant Stephen Dawson, covering the period from 3 September 1944 to 5 March 1946. Detailing his instructor and test flying. He was stationed at RAF Boscombe Down and RAF Ossington. Aircraft flown in were, Typhoon, Boston, Lancaster, Mosquito, B-25, Anson, Swordfish, Halifax, Beaufighter, Hudson, Invader, Lincoln, Auster, B-24, C-47, York and Oxford. Also included in the log book is a copy of form 1771 claim for travel expenses. Some handwritten notes on aircraft types and hours flown.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Wiltshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
Anson
B-24
B-25
Beaufighter
bombing
Boston
C-47
Halifax
Halifax Mk 1
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hudson
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
Mosquito
Oxford
RAF Boscombe Down
RAF Ossington
Swordfish
training
Typhoon
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/530/8764/PShawSR1604 copy.2.1.jpg
6ef757ed0517a8dee79afa1e17d1d6e6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/530/8764/AShawS160114.2.mp3
dcd6df4d27938dea630da3984b0221a7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Shaw, Stanley R
S R Shaw
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Shaw, SR
Description
An account of the resource
37 items. An oral history interview with Stanley Shaw (3002545 Royal Air Force) Photographs, documents and his log book. He served with a Repair and Salvage Unit and attended many crashes. He later served in North Africa and the Middle East.
The collection also contains two photograph albums; one of his RAF service and one of his time in a cycle club.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Stanley Shaw and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-14
2016-02-11
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
SC: Now that should be recording so we’ll put that just there.
SS: Lovely.
SC: I’ll stand it up if it will stay up. Yeah. So, we’re doing the interview today with Mr Stanley Shaw at your home address — XXXXXX, Derby.
SS: Yes.
SC: I’m Steve Cooke, I’m doing the interview today. Thank you very much for inviting me into your house as well Stanley, to do the interview, I really appreciate it.
SS: Oh, it’s a pleasure. It’s a pleasure. [Peter]
SC: What I wanted to do was start in the early years, and just ask you, were you born and bred in Derby? And, why you wanted to join the RAF and the ATC?
SS: Yes, I was born at a very early age. 1926, not a very good year. There was a general strike on.
SC: Oh yeah.
SS: Churchill sent the troops to kill the miners but we lived in a slum in Derby. Two, two room, two up, two down as we used to call it. No hot, no hot water, no gas. Copper, the dolly pegs and all that caper. And, well there was no fat kids running about in them days I can assure you.
SC: Yes.
SS: Because we lived practically on a diet of bread and, bread and jam, or bread and dripping, whatever was handy. But I was a sickly child and the doctor said, ‘If you can raise him till he’s seven, he might pull through’.
SC: Gosh.
SS: But I was a regular attender at the Temple House Clinic for sunray treatment, instead of going to the seaside. My dad said Skegness was Russian propaganda, no such place. So, I had that and I wore teen glasses for a bit, and an operational twitch, and I succumbed. I was alright at school, loved history, loved history. And as I went on, about, I think I’d be about five or six, Alan Cobham and his Flying Circus came to Derby, and my dad had a bike in them days with a basket on the front, and he used to take me everywhere. And I can remember, well and truly, going to this place, called it Sentry Meadows in Derby, and lo and behold, these ex-1914/18 aircraft — patched up, fabric jobs, Biplanes. The stunts they performed and you could have a trip up for five shillings.
SC: Wow.
SS: The problem was five shillings was a lot of money in those days.
SC: Yeah.
SS: So, there wasn’t much chance of that, and as I went on through the years, I was very interested, very interested in aircraft. Always. That was the days of the Frog Models, you could buy a little one for five shilling in a box, and you used to stick the wings on and increase the revs on the handle, and it didn’t fly very well, but at five bob, good value for five bob. And took the Modern Wonder, that was another magazine at that time. Very, very descriptive on aircraft — the Modern Wonder. And I had an uncle, now, not many people had cars in those days. You were either a doctor or some exquisite person, a businessman, if you had a car and he had a, the old Flying Standard. And I think it was 1937, he took me and my father up to Hucknall, which was the home of the Nottingham, the Nottingham Air Squadron Defence. And they flew, I just forget - Hawker Hinds, Hawker Hind biplanes, all silver and polished. They were beautiful they were. And then, that was in 1937, that’s, that’s when I saw the first Wellington. This black fabric covered job in the corner. A bit secret at that time. And then in 1938, he took me again and, lo and behold, we’d got Battles, and they were the be all and end all. They could beat any fighter and all that, which were a load of twaddle really, but very, very interesting that was. And I said then, in 1938/’39, and I left school, I left school in Easter 1940 because my birthday is on January the 10th, and in those days, if you was born in the new year, you didn’t qualify to leave at Christmas, so I had to go till Easter.
SC: Yeah.
SS: That was a body blow that was. And I left school on the Friday, and I started work on the Monday. No — plenty of jobs around in them days because the war was on, and I worked at a garage. One interesting point, in the garage, when Dunkirk happened, we had a complete battalion of squaddies got straight off the boat from Dunkirk, shipped them up to Spondon village, and they hadn’t got a rifle between them.
SC: Right.
SS: They’d got absolutely nothing. They’d come up here by train I should imagine, and they had their headquarters in Spondon village, and they kept their petrol supply at our garage, and it was brown. No chance of nicking any because it was brown in colour [laughs], and I can remember in those days, the military could acquire any vehicle. Civilian. They just walked up and say, ‘Thank you very much, that’s ours’. And this battalion, the despatch rider was only about five foot tall and he’d got this twin, twin cylinder Matchless 1000.
SC: Right.
SS: Well, he used to bring it down to the garage and we used to fill his tank for him, and then somebody had to kick it started for him because he wasn’t strong enough to kick it. But I remember one morning, I was filling a customer’s car and it was a bit misty, and I heard this roar, and we got, we got an anti-aircraft battery up in the village by this time up, on the rise there, and they’d got a Bofors gun, and I heard this bang, bang, bang. I looked up and there was this German aircraft which is well known, this German aircraft flying, which bombed Royce’s that morning.
SC: Gosh.
SS: He flew all the way down from, came in from Hull, came down here and he bombed. He bombed Royce’s.
SC: Royce’s.
SS: And people say, ‘You didn’t see that did you?’ Well, just one of them things.
SC: Yeah.
SS: You saw it but I know one thing. The traverse of the gun was that low, it was nearly knocking the chimney pots off because as it flew —
SC: Gosh.
SS: It was that low.
SC: Yeah.
SS: That they followed it and of course, the lower it got, the worse the firing got. I saw that, and then also, while I worked at the garage, one day I looked up and there was an aeroplane with black crosses on it. I think it was a Junkers 88 reconnaissance flying, flying over and that was shot down at Lincoln on it’s, on its way back. A Spitfire shot that down. That was, and then Saturday lunchtime. I can remember it was a Saturday lunchtime, when I was fourteen and a half and listening, listening to the — well you did listen to the news, because it was all war, and this chap from the Air Ministry got on and said, ‘We’re going to form a new arm of Air Force’. Pre-training for the Air Force because we’ve lost that many, you know, to Dunkirk and in France, the Battle of France, that we’re short. We need recruits urgently and we want them partially trained.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Which was a good deal for the RAF, it took a lot of weight off them. And I thought, right, and it said apply at your local councillor. Well, a councillor, I knew about councillors in them days but didn’t used to bother. Somebody said, ‘Mr Fred West at Borrowash’, which is where we are, so I jumped on my old Vindec bike, scooters up there, hammers on his door. ‘What do you want?’ I said, ‘I’d like to join the Air Training Corps’. He said, ‘I’ve not had the papers through yet’. I was a bit pre you see, and then I went to the first, I went to the first, well it wasn’t a parade, it was just the lads that were interested and I can remember it as plain as day. We went up to the Wilmot Arms at Borrowash and there was four of us. There was a chap called Austin Shaw that lived in Spondon, he became a pilot later on. There was a lad called George Wood and the lad called Bancroft and myself. We were the first four to get there and out of our four, George Wood was shot down in 1944 on a Lanc, a Lancaster rear gunner, and he was shot down and he’s buried in Bergen Op Zoom, Holland. I’ve never had occasion to go, I’ve been to Holland a couple times, I’d love to go and see because he got married and he had a baby and he never saw the baby. He never saw it. Very tragic. And from the four we blossomed, we blossomed. Everybody in Spondon and surrounding wanted to fly. Oh, they all wanted to fly. And we formed 1117 Squadron, and we got that big, we got that big, we formed four flights — A, B, C and D.
SC: Wow.
SS: Which were Spondon, Territory Hill — Chaddesden, the racecourse and Chester Green. All the four flights. In all, we were well over two hundred cadets.
SC: Gosh.
SS: Well over. And we had a civilian, he was an engineer at the Celanese at the time, and he’d got a big house in Spondon with a big loft. And we had a ground staff, we had aircrew. They were studying navigation and everything appertaining, Morse code and everything, and we were, well I was already an apprentice fitter so they made me a corporal, because I’d got a bit more knowledge than they had. And, yeah, and then came the days of visits to aerodromes. I think I’ve already mentioned about Burnaston, managed to get a flip. We went to Burnaston for a week, week’s camp. Roughed it a little bit as we thought, and they’d got Tiger Moths and Magisters, Miles Magisters, and they were 16 AFTS Flight Training School. And from there we went to better things, we went to Ashbourne Aerodrome for a week, which flew Whitleys and Ansons and Blenheims.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Well we had one officer, Mr Rigby, a rather nice chap, they took him up for a flight. They didn’t tell him where they were going, and when he came back, he told about these little black puffs of smoke behind the aeroplane. ‘Yes. That was flak, sir. We’ve been across to northern France, having a shufty around and come back again’. Didn’t tell him where he was going, joy trip it was. Well, Ansons were the name of the game, because you trained the pilot, navigator, wireless operator, bombardier all in the same aeroplane. So, we used to fly down to North Wales on the Brecon Beacons dropping these white, little white twenty five pounder bombs.
SC: Yeah.
SS: If you hit anything — I don’t think so, not very often. And as I say, then the last camp I went to was a bomber, it was a proper bomber station, at Hixon near Staffordshire. And Wellingtons, that was my first encounter with a Wellington and well, I mean, the ATC were smart. I kid you not they were very smart, and I was the right marker. So, I mean, this is an operational, this is an operational ‘drome with the erks wandering around, with their knives and forks dangling on their belt. Dead scruffy because they’d probably been working all night, caps on at fitter 2 angle, and we were there and we just paraded on the ground [unclear], all these lads used to stand there laughing. Smirking as well. ‘Bloody different when you get in mate’, and we managed to get a trip there. But you see, OTUs are a bit different. Every OTU operation is a little bit different, so the — our officer, he was the last, he was a World War One, First World War pilot and he, he was in charge of us, and he said, ‘I’ve got you a trip’. I thought, well I’m not really bothered really, ‘cause I’m not into flying. ‘I’ve managed to get you a trip’, you see, and it was this Wellington and we went down to the flight. They give you a mask and, you know oxygen bag, helmet and whatnot, parachute, and we got on the truck that was taking the crew out on this test flight. Just come out the hangar. Apparently it had had a new wing fitted, and there was us sitting there, our lads. Two lads sitting there, these hardened types sitting there, they said, ‘Have you got a date tonight?’ I don’t know what — ‘Have you got a date tonight?’ I said, ‘Yeah’. He said, ‘You can scrub around that’, he said, ‘I expect the flaming wings are gonna fall off’. This is just as we were starting trying. I was sitting there, I don’t want nothing to do with this sort of thing, and we went and sat in it, and the lad that I was with, he’d never been up before. We went up and he started throwing it about and we looked out, and there was a Mark I Mustang, and we were on a little bit of aircraft fighter affiliation in which case you were, you know, you were swinging it about a bit. And we came, we finished that, came away from there and then, as I say, I volunteered. I did volunteer, I always meant going in and I was still working at Celanese, Apprentice fitter, which meant I had to break my, I had to break my apprenticeship, and well that was it. I mean I told them, I said, ‘I’ve been in the Air Training Corps all this time’.
SC: Yeah.
SS: ‘I don’t want to miss out’, And — yes, I went from there, and at that time, we’d moved to Spondon. We lived in Spondon and we had six soldiers billeted with us. If you’d got a three-bedroom house —
SC: Right.
SS: And you got one room to spare, you got, you got six squaddies because the British Celanese was a huge depot for armaments, lorries and anything. So all these lads were in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Working down there in civvy billets you see, and how my mum used to feed them six, I do not know.
SC: Yeah.
SS: ‘Cause they used to come in, you know, barely enough to keep them.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And you’d got to find food and rationing and whatnot, queuing, and they were from all over the country. You know, different places they came from, different accents and of course, I was about seventeen, yeah, seventeen and a half, seventeen and three quarter. And I got my, I got my papers on the day before Christmas day, and they were all, you know, ‘You’ll be alright’, kind of thing. And yes, I was eighteen. I was eighteen on the one day and I went in the next.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Went in the next. Dad took me down to the station and well, I was, you see, it wasn’t as if you had just been plucked out of civvy street like a lot of, a lot of lads were.
SC: Yeah.
SS: I mean these lads that were conscripted, they didn’t have the, they didn’t have the luxury of being pre-trained.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Now, when you, when you, as soon as you got on to Cardington, which was a recruiting centre which did all the training and everything, you was half qualified you know.
SC: Yeah
SS: I mean, the RAF, you know. Thank God somebody knows what they’re doing.
SC: Yeah.
SS: But the Air Training Corps were prefixed with the numbers 300, so they just looked at your number and, 3002545, they knew straight away you were ex, ex-Training Corps and I was pretty fit, I was pretty fit in them days. And on the second day, no, the second week we were there, we got this contingent, a contingent of West Indians come, the black lads from West Indies, and January was cold.
SC: Right.
SS: I can assure you, it was cold and they had a cross-country run. A cross country run. Starting out, I think there was a hundred and forty four altogether, we were all in flights, sections, you know. I think there was about nine flights altogether with about, what? Thirty lads in each. And you’d got an drill instructor, corporal and a sergeant, and they had this cross country. Everybody had got to be in it, it didn’t matter if you could run or not. And there were, there’s two big hangars at Cardington where they used to store the airships, R101, two big hangars, and there was a narrow gap, like a road, down there. Well it was a cross country, so I set off amongst the pack. Saw these big athletic West Indian lads, I don’t stand a cat in hell’s chance here, and I was running along and saw this chap with “Polytechnic Harriers” written on it. I thought that looks a bit interesting, he’ll be the right lad to follow.
SC: Yeah.
SS: So I get behind and as we ran through these hangars, there was a bit of a wind blowing, so luckily I was, I’ve tucked in behind and then when we got outside — about two hundred yards — that was the finishing line. So he’d had it when he got to the end of the road and I chuffed in and managed to get first. And this officer type came across — he give me, what was it? He gave me a thirty-shilling postal order.
SC: Wow.
SS: And gave me a leave, a leave pass for the weekend. Never been done before, you see because I mean until you could march and look decent, they didn’t let you out of Cardington.
SC: Yeah.
SS: You know, and I went home. And these soldiers, ‘What are you doing home then? Have they kicked you out already?’ I said, ‘No’.
SC: For coming first
SS: And when I got back again of course, it was steam trains then, you know, and always full.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Always. Derby station. And always this smoke used to hang about, acrid smoke there was. If you went through a tunnel, made sure all the windows were shut.
SC: Yeah.
SS: It used to puther in, and you’re like a —
SC: Yeah.
SS: And you come out the other side. And when I got back, they were all lying in their bunks moaning and whatnot, and I said, ‘What’s up?’ ‘We’ve had the inoculations today. Oh you know, we’ve had jabs and this, that and the other’, and I thought, well I’ve not had it. They said, ‘No, but you’ll get it tomorrow though’. Yeah, I enjoyed that cross country running, twenty two mile march with half pack and rifle, and the chap that was in charge, a warrant officer, he was sixty-five odd and he marched at the front.
SC: Wow.
SS: He marched at the front and we went out. Had soup, hot soup out of the kitchen, and the jam butty sandwich and we marched eleven miles back. We got just outside Bedford, and he said, ‘Now, you buggers, lift your eyes up. Don’t tell these civilians you’re sagging. Get yourself’, and we did. Looked as if we’d just come up and started the march. But very, very good. Did grenade throwing, rifle, firing the sten, the — what was it? The Browning machine gun. We fired that.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And very, very, very interesting that was. It was to get you fit.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Now the food was rough, I would say, the food was adequate. You got the calories and after six weeks training, if they’d have said, ‘Stanley, run through that brick wall’, I would have done. You’re like, you’re like butcher’s dogs you know.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And then that was all finished you see, and then we got posted for training, so they got me down, they got me down as air frames so, at Halton this was, a beautiful place. It was on the Rothschild estate.
SC: Gosh.
SS: Near Halton.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Buckinghamshire. Nearest village was Wendover which had a Church Army little tea place where you could have a shine and a wad, and we did six, tem weeks intensive, intensive, riggers course.
SC: Yeah.
SS: We did the basic, basic fitting. Now, I’d already been fitting and all this caper.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And they threw a great big piece of steel at you and said, ‘We want you to make something that is square and file it so that fits in there’. Well, I thought, this is going to take weeks this is, so I looked — I had a look around. It was a big workshop and all the machinery was belt driven in them days, a great big grindstone, so I thought — right. So, I sneaks down there with this and of course, if you press down hard enough, you get a great big shower of sparks.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And have you ever had that notice, feeling, that somebody is standing behind watching you? So, I thought, and it was a sergeant. ‘Oh’, he said, ‘Hello. What are you doing then?’ I said, ‘I’m fetching, I’m fetching some of this metal’, I said, ‘There’s a heck of a lot to file off’. He said, ‘That’s the idea’, he said, ‘You’ll use a hacksaw and then you’ll file it into shape. No — no grinding mate. Here’s another piece of metal’. Bigger than that one [laughs], but we did rigging. Very interesting that was, rigging, but you see, we didn’t rig the Tiger Moth, which is a biplane, which we spent two days with the dihedral boards, angles — this kind of — all the measurements and we couldn’t — it was a degree out. Couldn’t possibly get it, couldn’t possibly get the dihedral on the wings and we told the instructor, ‘We’ve tried everything’. ‘Well’, he said, ‘You won’t’, he said. ‘That’s why Brooklands Flying Club threw it out. It was no good’. They didn’t tell you that before you started. And we went out on the grass airfield, we swung the propeller, that was an art. That was a Tiger Moth and you had to swing a propeller, and then they got a clapped-out Spitfire, and the idea was that the engine people, we were divided, airframes and engines, the engine people used to sit in the cockpit and the airframe bods used to lean across the tail plane at the back. Of course when you revved the Spitfire, the natural tendency was to tip up on its nose.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Or belt across the airfield — so — off the brake. So, we all lodged, lodged on the, on the, across the tail to hold the tail down, so if your cap blew off, which it did mostly, about three fields away before you found it. But that was very interesting. And one incident, it was midsummer and we’re talking 1944 now, and no water on the camp, run out of water so they sent us home, sent us home for a week but just before we went, the Americans were here by this time.
SC: Right.
SS: And the air was full of Forts and Liberators, and this Fort come steaming around, of course, we’d only got a grass airfield at Halton, come steaming around and lowered his undercarriage. By the way, already on the camp was two hundred WAAFs. By this name of the game, the girls were coming in and taking, and taking the place of the blokes, doing the same job, mechanics.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And of course, they trained in one part, we trained in the other. And this Fort landed and the doors opened and these lads fell out, with all their fur lined clobber and the you know, Mae Wests, yellow Mae Wests and smoking cigars. Of course, these girls descended on them [laughs], I think they survived to go, to take off again. They said they’d lost their way, they’d lost their way. And yeah, we came back off leave, and then it was posting time then. Then you were fully trained, or thought you were, and then life began in earnest then, life really began. And we formed up outside for the postings and, ‘You go there’. ‘You go there’. ‘You go there’. Oh, by the way does anyone, anyone here like to volunteer for flight engineers. Well, at this time the chop rate was very, very high, in some cases you were probably losing two out of four, you know, which was bad really. So, air crew, they was at a premium. They weren’t training them fast enough but they got these lads overseas in Canada and south, so they were beginning to filter through, but until then the flight engineer’s course, it was different of course. When they took the four engine bombers over, they did away with the second pilot. They had to look after the four engines, they had the flight engineer who used to look after a;; the fuel and the revs and all that caper, and the workings of the aircraft, and they were the second, more or less the second dickie.
SC: Yeah.
SS: I think they were trained how to fly straight and level, not to land it.
SC: No.
SS: Not to land the thing, but, ‘Any volunteers?’ And if there was, you got a white flash on your cap, you know, that was for going on to aircrew, and this chap came up and he said, ‘Right’, he said, ‘Salvage’. I said, ‘Eh?’ He said, ‘Salvage’. I said, ‘Have I spent flaming all this time training in all this and I’m going on salvage?’ He said, ‘Not the salvage you mean’, he said, ‘You’ll be posted to 54 Maintenance, Repair And Salvage Unit, at Cambridge’, he said, ‘On Trumpington Road’. He said, ‘That is where all the stuff is kept. The slings and the cranes and the low loaders. All the tools appertaining’, he says, ‘and you will all be part of a salvage party’, which, there was nine, there was nine salvage parties and it were your job that if any aircraft crashes, whether it American, Free French, RAF, anything — you will go out and you will bring it back. If it’s a CatE1, that’ll be a sweep up, you’ll just take your dustpan out and your brush and that’ll be it. It’s completely scrap.
SC: Gosh.
SS: Or you catch a CatB. Now a CatB has belly flopped or he’s had a slight landing accident, and it was stripped down carefully, quickly but carefully. And that, in the case of the Lancaster, which was seven low loaders, Queen Mary’s, which was stripped it off in to different parts. All the engines came out on one loader, the wings, the tail, the fins and everything. And then the wings, they took the wings off and they were leant on sideways. So, and some were wide loads, you know, I mean there was no danger of [laughs], they just went through a town and demolished everything that was on the sides. And yes it was quite, quite an interesting job and we got, we were billeted in Jesus College, Cambridge.
SC: Gosh.
SS: Among the graduates you see.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And the pokey hole. I don’t know, no wonder them graduates used to hang themselves, you know. You used to go up these little winding stairs, all the paintwork was dark green wood or dark brown and we got four metal beds and three biscuits and a couple of blankets, and of course, next door to the camp, and if you hadn’t got a bicycle, everybody got a bicycle but if you hadn’t got a mortar board and a gown, they didn’t take much different but we used to dine in the great dining hall.
SC: Wow.
SS: And we had three long tables and then one across the top. The one on the top, the professors and top people sat, and just here, we had the officers and the warrant officers for our lot, and then we had the bods in the middle. And then on this one we had the undergrads. And we had our own, own mess, cookery, the WAAFs. We had some lovely meals. The other lads going to theirs, coming back with a half a tomato and a lettuce and you know, we were fed pretty well, and we were there for quite a time and then we went to Newmarket. Now, Newmarket was a grass ‘drome and it was on the, on the racecourse itself.
SC: Right.
SS: And — but whilst we were at Cambridge, I’ll start there, while we was at Cambridge, I think nearly every week we had a crash, every week. It didn’t matter where they landed, where they landed. If they landed in water, trees, open land — and just give you a couple of incidents, I can’t give you them all because I can remember them all, but you’ll be here ‘til [laughs]. The first one we went to was a Lancaster at a place called Mepal. Now, that was a Bomber Command station, and we went up there and that was the first one I’d been on, and there was a little lad — he was called an ACHGD. That means Aircraft Hand General Duties. So, they put him with us to keep him out the road I think, and this sergeant, a Sergeant Donovan, he was brilliant on the makeup, the weight-up of the human body to counterbalance, he was very good sticking bods up to balance the thing up, if we hadn’t got the right tackle. And this Lanc was in the hangar, so we were fetching the nose section off and we got the slings, what we thought were the proper ones, and when we lifted it, it was slightly nose heavy, which means we couldn’t lower it down on to the low loader in the right position. So, we said to this little lad, ‘Climb up there and sit in the end there to balance it’. Well, the next thing, it dipped and this lad fell out, bust his arm, and the sergeant said, very sympathetic, he said, ‘Get off up to the sick station, sick quarters’, and this little lad went up and he said he just nose-dived in a Halifax, and they said, ‘Well where was this?’ He said, ‘Well, in the hangar —‘ and of course it wasn’t a Halifax, it was a Lancaster.
SC: A Lancaster.
SS: But he didn’t go out with us again because he’d broken his arm, but that was one of the easy ones, but then you started on the really bad ones. We went to a place called Chedburgh, which is quite near Newmarket. That was a, that was a Heavy Conversion Unit using the four engine Stirling bomber which the pilot was twenty two foot of the ground before you, before you took off or anything. Of course, the angle and the wing, it had a huge undercarriage and what they’d done to get it in the hangar which was, the wingspan was too long to get it in the hangar, they’d taken some off the wings which made it. If you got up to seventeen thousand foot in a Stirling, you was very lucky. Very, very lucky, they’d no altitude at all, and we went, we went on this one and he said, ‘There’s a Stirling. It’s still on the runway with a canopy missing, and then there’s another one just to the side that’s crashed.. So, we went, we went up to this place, Chedburgh, and there was the Stirling, sitting on the end of runway, still on its legs and the canopy had gone. What had happened, it was standing on the runway waiting to take off, the other Stirling — it was night — the other Stirling was coming on and I don’t know what happened, but one of his undercarriage wheels, which was huge, huge tyre, had struck the top of the canopy, knocked it off. And the pilot who was sitting up there he was, he was on the dashboard. He was a goner. He was on the board, what was left of him.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And it were hot, It was quite warm and of course, the first thing they did was climbed up in to the cockpit. You got that for a start. I was only eighteen at the time so, you know, it was just a little bit unnerving, and we got that and then we had to strip the other Stirling down, but they towed that one into a hangar, stuck a new canopy on it and that was ready for off again.
SC: Gosh.
SS: The worst one we did was a Liberator, this was in 1945, a Liberator. In those days, in 1945, Norfolk, Suffolk and all the eastern counties, the ground and the air throbbed because you’d got a thousand American four engine bombers climbing out, because they’d got to get altitude and they had these special planes called Judas. They called them Judas because they went back to the ‘drome, the other ones didn’t. It had all coloured in stripes and balls and flash colours and they used to fly alongside the other aircraft, firing verey cartridges like a shepherd and his sheep, getting them all into form because they’d all got to be stacked in the correct formation, which was better to defend their selves before they set out. And you could just imagine these going around and around, the air was alive.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And we got this message. We went to Ely, just outside Ely. We took a road from Ely to Downham Market, the main road, a place called Black Horse Fen. Well in the fen district, the soil, you could thrust your arm and up to your elbow — it was black, beautiful black soil, right for agriculture, and we went to pick up a Liberator and the first thing — when we got there, it was still smoking. Still smoke coming out of it and dogs running about, that was a bad sign. And here was the back end, the fin and rudder and the rear turret and the two waist gunners.
SC: Yeah.
SS: It had gone like that. It had blown up at sixteen thousand foot with the one — I don’t, they don’t know what happened, but I think American crews tended to get, have a fag you know.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And the Liberator, as soon as you climbed, you could smell hundred octane petrol and this thing, this thing had blown up with a full bomb load on board.
SC: Gosh.
SS: And it had spread about three miles. You’d got this tail end here with the two waist gunners in, you’d got like a depression in the ground, that was where one of them had got blown out and his chute hadn’t opened so that was how he landed. The nose section — there was five in there, that had really gone in. That’s what was burning and nothing smells worse than a burning aircraft. The wing was missing. The four engines — they might, you might have placed them like that, in four, and the bombs were underneath the engines.
SC: Wow.
SS: So, they called the bomb disposal squad, they came out, they said, ‘Well we couldn’t actually get the bombs until you get the engines out’. So, oh. Well in them days, you didn’t have the, we had cranes, the Coles crane, and then there was one with a long, long gib what — didn’t use, didn’t use that so very often. But if the ground was soft, you was bogged down pretty well and had to use the steel mattings, and of course, you had to get the engines up first. ‘Don’t touch that’ [laughs] ‘Be careful lad’, [laughs]. And we didn’t get the nose out at all, we just filled it back in because I mean, it was sitting there and what looked like a flying suit, pulled this arm, arm you see, so we just covered it in. But the farmers were, and the Air Ministry were very, very careful about the ammunition, because Americans used a .5 which is rather bigger than a 303.
SC: Yeah.
SS: I mean the 303s were like peashooters, and these .5s, they’d huge belts with them. I mean some of the Fortresses carried thirteen guns, thirteen .5s. That is a lot of ammunition. Well, I don’t think the Liberator carried quite as much as that, but you see, when an aircraft crashed, everything went all ways and it was nothing for a farmer with his tractor —
SC: Yeah.
SS: To run over a belt of .5s and frighten himself to death.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Of course, there used to, used to be explosive. What’s them? Tracer bullets and all the lot. So, you made sure that it was pretty clear and for some reason, there’s a farmer. He said, ‘There’s a wing’, there’s a wing gone in his farmyard, so, we thought, well it must be this one. Well the Liberator’s a Davis wing, which is about a hundred and four wing span I think, very, very thin camber, not as good as a Fortress in formation because they tend to wander around a little bit. But we went there and he said, ‘Since this thing crashed’, he says, ‘My fowls have stopped laying’, he said, ‘No eggs and they’ve stopped laying’. So, we thought, ‘Oh it must have been the shock so’, and he said, ‘I’ve got a wireless set as well’. So, we thought — wireless set, good, we’ve got one for the truck. We haven’t got one for the truck and he brings it out and it’s a big yellow box like that, with a handle on it and he said, ‘And you might as well have this as well’. It was like a big cardboard tube, and it was a emergency transmitter. When they landed in a dinghy, they used to crank the handle and they needed a kite with the aerial on in this to — there was a great big aluminium and silk kite. Six foot.
SC: Wow.
SS: So, moi had that, I had that - a trophy. And of course, this thing was no good, it could only send out a signal. That’s all.
SC: Ah.
SS: And anyway, with the [unclear] crane with the big jib, we got to, we managed to get it out into the yard and the wing, unless you’ve got the correct lifting tackle it balanced, but if there’s some knocked off the end, it unbalanced it. Well, as we lifted this wing, the flaps lowered and we was knee deep in eggs. These fowls had got inside the flaps laying their eggs, they’d not gone under the hedge, and it was caps and what’s the name, jackets at the ready. I think we lived on eggs for a month after that. But you see that, that was one of the lighter sides and one of the dead sides. Went to a place just outside Cambridge called Bourn, Bourn, that was a PFF station, Pathfinder unit, Mosquitoes, and they called us out to this one. They said, ‘It’s crashed in a field adjacent to the airfield’. So, we buggered off there, on the way up there, we gazed at the side of the road and there was a Catalina. Now a Catalina, in anybody’s language, is a flying boat.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Well I don’t know what had had happened to this thing, but it was perched up on the grass there, on a bit of a hill, so of course we had to stop and have a look at it, see what was happening. And then we went on to Bourn and went into this field, and there was two big gouges right up the field, right up the field, like two big [unclear], and as you walked up —one engine, half a wing, another engine, well, bits practically until we got to the end, and there was the cockpit and there was the cockpit floor. No canopy. The control column. That was it. You wouldn’t stand a dog’s chance in that. No way. And of course, partial amount of balsawood, the Mosquito. All the bomb bay — it was balsa planks. Ideal if you were an aero modeller, beautiful, but the rest were plywood, you see, and spruce, and we thought, right. Well we started work and looked down the field, and this couple, one holding on to the other’s shoulders come crawling up and jeez, that was the crew, that was the crew, and they’d belly flopped it and ran it. And the reason the navigator had jiggered his ankle - couldn’t get out what was left of the cockpit fast enough and he’d jiggered his ankle up. But —
SC: But they’d survived.
SS: That was them, that was them. Oh dear. You know, some, some were lucky, some were not. We went, we were called out to Tempsford. Now Tempsford is near Duxford, and it was a squadron for special duties, dropping spies and arms to the, you know, the Maquis and whatnot. They had numerous kind of aircraft. They’d Hudsons, Stirlings, they operated Halifaxes and — a real special job. Nobody said anything about Tempsford. And one of their aircraft had crashed. The tail had broke off and the tail, the fin and the rudder — where the entrance door was, looked as if the ring of rivets around there had sheared off, so the tail and the turret had fallen into a school playground.
SC: Oh gosh.
SS: With the, of course, the rear gunner was still in it, and then the other thing was a right mess, it was a right mess, and it crashed into somebody’s garden and the family that lived there, they’d lost their son over Germany a couple of weeks before, so they, they got it on their doorstep. But that were, some, but I want to finish up on a lighter note, a lighter note. New Year’s Day. I can remember it, the day before New Year’s Day 1944/45, we were sitting and it was cold, and it had snowed, the weather was a bit naughty, and they came in. We were squatting around the stove and they said, ‘There’s a Mitchell at Swanton Morley they want stripped for spares’. Lovely. So off we go, pile all the stuff in the wagon, off to Swanton Morley. Not a long run from Newmarket and we gets there, signed in at the station. We’ve come for so and so — that’s the number of the aircraft. It’s over there. Anyway, we gets over there and it’s on the airfield, and this thing — it glinted. It was sun, it was bright snow, piled high on either side and this aircraft glinting in the sun. You needed sunglasses to get near it. Is it? Is it? That’s the number.
SC: Yeah.
SS: That’s the number. ‘Right lads. Axes out, shear the brake line’. Out of the blue, this little jeep come howling around the peri track at four thousand mile an hour, like this. ‘Whoa. Whoa’, and this officer got out. He said, ‘This aircraft is flying on operations in thirty minutes time’, and our sergeant looked at him. He said, ‘This aircraft will never fly again’ [laughs]. So, they’d got the wrong number. Their fault, not ours.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And they said, our sergeant said, ‘Well where’s ours then?’ He said, ‘Well down this slope, in to the hangar’, and in the early days, the Americans used to paint their aircraft olive green, and this one had got a 75 millimetre canon stuffed up the nose and the big rack to put the shells in, because they used to go ship busting from there, used to fly low level and these 75 mill — the shell would go straight through a ship.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And that was its job. And there it was, all forlorn, battle weary, like this. And, well, we had to get this thing off the airfield, down this slope, into the hangar. Well, there was about three foot of snow on either side and the slope down was like a ski run.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Just like [unclear] like this, ice, so, we thought how are we going to do this. Well of course the brakes had gone, we’d had to chop the brake lines, so, how are we going to do? Well, it was a three wheeler, no steering job. Well there was a hole through the wheel, I thought, well if we get a crowbar and stick through that hole, we should be able to steer it and get the party truck with two ropes around, and they said, ‘We’ll do it that way’. We tried towing it down first and that didn’t work very well, so they said, right, we’ll put the truck behind and we’ll go slowly and let it go, and it didn’t work, and I was on the front, on the crowbar and I thought, and I looked and this wheel, and we’d lost all control and it just swung around and lodged itself on the top of the snowdrift. But I mean it was a laugh that was, a sheer laugh, but I’ll never forget that officer’s face when he said, ‘It’ll never fly again’. And well that was, and then the war came to pretty near the end and they said, ‘Right. What we’re going to do— we’re going up to Brize Norton. All the German aircraft are up there that we captured — and they’re going to take them down to Hyde Park, London. There’s also a Lancaster at Kemble near Gloucester and this Lancaster has got to be stripped down. You use the low loaders and you’re going to take it to Hyde Park and assemble it. Take it from Hyde park to Chelmsford. Colchester’. Army, a hundred percent Army. ‘And put it up in a kid’s playground and then you’re going to take it to Chelmsford’. This is to show the public —
SC: Yeah.
SS: What did the damage. Now, the aircraft were complete, what they were at Kemble, I’ve got a picture. They lined up, they’d flown from Manchester. Built, built on contract, finished off, short hop to Kemble.
SC: Yeah.
SS: For scrap.
SC: Yeah.
SS: All that much money. So, they selected this aircraft, I’ve got a picture of it there, and took it down to Hyde Park, and we stayed at the Grand Central Hotel. It was a transit camp, bare boards, four steel beds and three biscuits and a blanket. That was it. And we put this aircraft up along with the Messerschmitt 109. I’ve actually sat in a Heinkel 163 rocket plane.
SC: Gosh.
SS: The Arado. Tell my lads, I tell my lads and, ‘You were a lucky bugger you are’, and I said, ‘Well you were just there at the time’.
SC: Yeah
SS: And we were assembling this Lancaster, and this chap came up and he said, ‘Are you alright lads?’ We said, ‘Yes’, and he said, ‘What do you do for entertainment?’ ‘Course, RAF weren’t paid, ground crew, they weren’t paid. I mean two pound , what was it? Two pound a fortnight, you know, you couldn’t make headway with that and he said, he said, ‘Would you — would you care for two tickets?’ He said, ‘The Marble Arch Pavilion’, he said, ‘Showing Henry V. The premier of Henry V’. He said, ‘Would you like to go along this afternoon. Free ice cream when you got there’, and that was nice.
SC: That’s —
SS: He just came and said, ‘Would you like to go?’
SC: Yeah.
SS: So we saw Henry V.
SC: Wow.
SS: And that — that was smashing. Now, we took it to Colchester, Army, and we had our meals at the Army barracks. We were the only, they left two of us behind to look, and of course, being keen on aircraft, we showed hundreds of visitors through, you know. Letting them, letting the kids sit in the gun turrets and explained everything to them, and we used to go for meals and the cooks used to sit, you know, in the morning.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Used to go for breakfast, and we had these great big trays of bacon that had been soaking for about an hour, you know. ‘Help yourself lads’. Oh, it was Shangri La that was.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Shangri La. And then we took it to — from Colchester, this kiddies playground. It had got about a twelve foot fence all the way around, and this little old lady came up, she said, ‘He must have been a very clever pilot’. We said, ‘Well, why’s that?’ ‘To land it in here’. We were just putting it together, and then we went to Chelmsford and we were putting it up on some waste ground outside a pub. Ideal. Ideal. We’d just got it there a couple of days and this low loader pulled in from Newmarket, he said, ‘What’s your last three’. I said, ‘545’. ‘Right’, he said, ‘They want you back at Newmarket. You’ve been posted’. Oh very nice indeed. So, I went back and give me leave, and I went to Heaton Park, Manchester. Cold again, freezing, January. December this one, it was freezing. Everywhere was froze up, there was no water, this was on the camp, no water, and we lived in Nissen huts. There was no thermal, nothing, just got a, just got a stove in the middle with a pipe up and we couldn’t burn coal because there was no coal to burn. The coal was outside behind a barbed wire fence and we were guarding it, guarding the coal, couldn’t use it. To stop the civilians from pinching it. And came home on leave and went back again and we were posted Medlock, the Medlock route to Egypt, Medlock. That means across France by locomotive.
SC: Ah.
SS: Yes, so, 4 o’clock in the morning, we caught a train from Manchester down to Newhaven, we spent the night at Newhaven. We caught the tide the next morning, early tide, on the Empire Daffodil which was a paddle steamer which had taken part in the Dunkirk evacuation.
SC: Wow.
SS: Across to Dunkirk — Dieppe. Dieppe had had a rough time and we went to this transit camp that had got duck boards over the mud to stop you from dropping off and disappearing. Got these French ladies with the fur coats and whatnot dishing out the food, another bloke giving you French currency and you were going across France in thirty six hours from Dieppe, from Dieppe via Paris. On the outskirts, French rolling stock. The RAF had used it as a target for nearly four years.
SC: Yeah.
SS: There was holes in it. I think it was air conditioned, they call it air conditioning. Steam engine locomotive and we went from Dieppe, Bram, Neuvy-Pailloux, Limoges, and the scenery. I mean it was early morning, it was January, early morning, beautiful, and I remember there was no corridor on the train, no corridor. They were all departments, eight bods in a compartment, wooden seats, and the only place to sleep — you know the racks you used to have with the nets.
SC: Oh yeah. I know. Yeah.
SS: We took it in turns to have a kip in there, couldn’t sleep on wooden seats. And they said, ‘You’ll have a hot meal at Bram’. Oh, we thought, well so, we got off. I think we had a jam buttie. Got back on the train, didn’t get no hot meal, unless well, how are they going to do it or are they going to go along the roof and tip it through the top. Never got a hot meal. Landed at Toulon. Southern France. Thirty six hours it took, right the way through France, and the first thing we saw in the harbour was the French pride — The Richelieu battleship with the two guns poked out the water. Scuttled.
SC: Gosh.
SS: That was it. Two ladies in bikinis, ‘cause it was on the Riviera, you see. Two ladies from the Salvation Army with buns and a cuppa. Salvation Army, I always give to them, they’re the — anywhere — they’re there. Then we thought — right, a bit of a rest now. No, ‘Your ship is out there.’ The SS Orbita, the SS Orbita, so, we went across there and they give you a ticket. You got your kit bag and all your belongings and you started going down and down and down. EC two deck. EC two deck. Where’s that? Two decks lower than the rats [laughs]. Three days across to, across to Portshead through Corsica, Sardinia and then through the straits between Sicily and Italy. The Palermo. Well the Luftwaffe had bombed the hell out of us from that base.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Down to the happy land of egg white. Egypt.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Transit camp for fourteen days at Kasfareet. We travelled from Portshead down to Kasfareet on the Canal Zone by Egyptian State Railway with wooden shutters, no glass, wooden shutters, and we said, ‘Well, what have you got wooden shutters for?’ Well, you’ll see. Well the first native village we passed we were bombarded with brick ends stands. They didn’t like us then you know.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Welcome back filthy British and we stayed at the transit camp at Kasfareet and then back up to Portshead, and caught the SS Cape Town Castle. Oh luxury, luxury. They had a band on board. They’d got all these blokes going back to India, they’d been to Blighty on leave and they were going back. All brown, all nut brown. There was us, Khaki drill. Just left you two inches white to get a tan. Red eagles. And we got on there. And on the Orbita we’d had hammocks, forty four to a mess deck and they were that close, when you turned over everybody like sardines. Like that.
SC: Yeah.
SS: The trouble was if you didn’t know how to tie a knot during the night, many a crash where the bloody hammock had collapsed and bods was on the floor. This was lowered down, you know, lowered down. Very nice, but we was only on it for three days down the Red Sea and I think they must have taken wind that, ‘Where are you going lad?’ ‘Aden’. They took great pity on us, great pity, and we landed at Aden and it was about a hundred, over a hundred degrees. The humidity, shocking, and we all piled there on the quayside with our bags and it was amazing. The water. They used to bring fresh water up you know, and these Arabs would sell you anything.
SC: Yeah.
SS: They would sell you anything, and one came up and they also have a good shufty around, to see if anybody of any importance, ‘Would you like to buy a diamond?’ And they’d bring this diamond out. You’ve never seen anything like it, stolen from Farouk’s palace last night. And you’d say, ‘Does it cut glass?’ and it had a porthole, it had a porthole [unclear], It hadn’t cut anything like this, but they’d sell you anything. The finest, the finest salesmen in the world, Arabs. We got on the quayside, boiling, sweltering, this chap came out, a warrant officer. Oh dear, he looked as if he’d just fell out of a [unclear] window. The creases in his trousers, beautiful. Nut brown, bright blue eyes. Been in Aden about two years. Dark, he was mahogany, got desert boots on. They weren’t issued, you know, they weren’t, desert boots were never issued but I think you could wear, if you were officers, you could wear them. He said, ‘Right, chaps. You’re now in Aden. British protectorate of the colony’, he said, ‘And as you know. Ladies.’ He said, ‘Well Khormaksar’, he said, ‘Is the RAF’s camp’, he said, ‘Just outside — a couple of miles’, he said, ‘There’s a native village and’, he said, ‘And there are girls in there’, he said, ‘Well, it’s completely out of bounds’. He said, ‘That place has been shut since Lady Astor, Lady Astor’s daughter had problems with somebody and she shut it’. Oh. He said , ‘And in any case’, he said, ‘The girls here’, he says, ‘They’ve all got disease’, he said, ‘There’s eighty percent, eighty percent got gonorrhoea’. Oh. He said, ‘And there’s fifteen percent got syphilis’. The lad’s said five percent, that’s five percent, and he said, ‘The other five percent have got both’, [laughs] so that was it.
SC: Yeah.
SS: That was it as regards and if you wanted a monk’s existence that was, that was the place but from there we settled in.
[Phone ringing]
SS: There’s your phone.
SC: Oh sorry. Let me just turn that off.
[Recording paused]
SC: Yeah, that’s going again.
SS: Oh yes. After a week settling in, now, Aden had got barrack blocks, beautiful, lemon tiles [unclear]. That was the air conditioning and they said, ‘Right. You’ll be attached to the communication flight’. I thought very jolly that. They’d got Wellingtons, they’d been converted from bombers into passenger carrying aircraft, that’s a, that’s a tale that is, and we’ve also got two Albacore’s with the wings. Airborne. I think the Navy dropped them off because they didn’t want them, they stand very high, and so we reported, reported to the communication flight. He said, ‘Right. Rigger’. Well the Wellington is a rigger’s nightmare because it’s covered in fabric, and fabric in a hot climate comes off regularly, regularly, and we’d got six Wellingtons and another one was the AOCs aircraft, Air Officer Commanding. Very posh. MF455 and mine was HC968. Well, I think the lads that we took over from had been there two years, and they actually had a march in Aden. Never been done before in the Air Force. It wasn’t a riot, it was a march past the governor’s office because they’d been there two years. Now, two years in a climate like that is a bit naughty.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Used to lie on the bed staring into space, they’d got the ten mile stare. You know, like this. You could tell how long they’d been there the way they looked. Of course, they thought the world of us, you know, where we could go down and take them and they took us down and just gave us a quick look around. ‘Right. It’s yours’, and they said, ‘Well, yeah’, they said, ‘But it’s your aeroplane. You’ll look after that. Where that goes you go’. I said, ‘Yeah well’, I said, ‘I’m not aircrew actually’. ‘Well if you look in your paperwork, you agree to sign on any of His Majesty’s aircraft or boat’. So they’d got you by the short and curlies you see, and that was it. So, they said, ‘Right. Well, yours is going pilot familiarisation. There’s a warrant officer coming up in charge of it, Pilot Officer Parrott. He’s instructor and you’ll go up and get a bit of familiarisation what it’s like’. So, right, got there, got the KD on, sitting there. I thought, sniff, sniff, sniff — smell of smoke. That’s funny. I looked out and pft, pft, pft, — the propeller had feathered. I thought, oh it looks like we’ve got a fire in the engine. Well that would be the first flight and the last flight then because when these things hit, you’ve got a forty gallon tank, a hundred octane tank, above the nacelle, which they start on and switch off and go on to mains and they land on them. And if a Wimpy touches that like, that they erupt straight over. So then the cockpit filled with smoke, I thought, ‘Deary me’. We’d got parachutes on but I didn’t want to use them. And this Pilot Parrott, he got the warrant officer out of the seat who was flying it and flew an asymmetric — made a perfect landing, perfect, on one engine. So that’s a good start, I thought, that’s a good start. And then I got quite, we went all over the place. Different flights. Went u/s mainly but the trouble was where we went to it was an RAF station. You got [unclear] in East Africa, down to Mogadishu, Nairobi, Djibouti, REAN, Solala, Misera, Eritrea and we used to go u/s a lot. Of course, the aircraft were old, you see, so you had to look after them and all these RAF stations, they called them stations, it was just like an airstrip with an officer and six bods showing the flag of the Union Jack.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Showing the flag. And they’d all got well stocked with beer, and for us it was a night stop. For them it was a bit of company, so all the aircrew and ground crew we all got absolutely —
SC: Yeah.
SS: We’d got to get up next morning. Well, the Wellington isn’t pressurised, you can open the windows in flight, so, the pilot said, ‘We’ll be alright because if you lead me up the ladder and put my hands on the column and when we get to — ’ and we never flew over six thousand feet — got no oxygen. Yeah. ‘We’ll get up there and open the windows and a bit of fresh air around. Soon blow away’. Now these things, they’d got eighteen passenger seats in, eighteen passengers seats, and the one on car seats, car seat, whicker seats, any seat, screwed into the floor. It was a plywood floor. Screwed into the floor. Every passenger had got a Mae West and a parachute, they’d have never got out that door, they’d never have got out that door. Never in a million years. And they didn’t tell them that, we didn’t think about that. The dinghy in the back — they’d taken the turret out, left the doors on and there was a ten man dinghy in there. Well if you count six crew and eighteen passengers, that don’t go into a ten man dinghy. But you didn’t —
SC: Yeah.
SS: And we used to fly across the shark infested Indian ocean, you know, it was all by the board. But I didn’t like flying but I never got accustomed. Never got paid, you know.
SC: No.
SS: I think the RAF owe me. If it was a shilling a day, they owe me a bit of money.
SC: Yeah.
SS: But I never enquired into it but we — and we did a year there, did a year there. I started cycling there. I formed the — the Cycling Club was already there but it was a bit of a shed, so the word in the RAF is scrounging stuff. Very good at scrounging and we built an old, an English replica bar with a black and white ceiling and built the bar, and the seats went round and got a, we got an arrangement with the NAAFI manager to get stuff a bit cheaper. So, whisky was twelve and six a bottle, gin was eight and six a bottle, and all the beer was Canadian. Dows. And we acquired a big fridge, an American fridge. It was broke but we’d also got an arrangement with the chiefy in the cookhouse for the ice.
SC: Yeah.
SS: So we kept it and we had our own bar, and unfortunately, well, fortunately the prices was much cheaper than the officer’s mess. Well, we had, the cycling, we had eight bicycles and thirty eight members which means periodically you got a ride out.
SC: Yeah.
SS: But a large amount of officers joined us because the drinks were only half the price of what they were paying in the mess, until groupie cottoned on to it. Of course, Friday night is dressing night, you know, and they’d hardly got anybody in the mess. But, yeah, I got a certificate of service which, I’d never seen one before. I’ve asked my lad. He said, ‘No. Not a certificate’, signed by the Air Commanding Officer Middle East thanking me for my devotion to duty. But on one occasion we were flying to Djibouti with six Army blokes on board and Djibouti was a French place just across the sea there, and just sitting back enjoying the flip there and bang. A bit ominous. And on the Wellington, you’ve got an astrodome like that, which you can stand on the lid like that and have a look around, and looked up and I this chap’s head and shoulder through the front cockpit. I thought, ‘Oh, dear that’s rather strange’, and the hatch, the hatch had blown open at the front.
SC: Right.
SS: You can’t land a Wimpy without a hatch because as soon as you put the nose down, the airflow fills the aircraft and won’t balance. So this chap was mucking about, so it was my job to close the hatches, but it was that hot in Aden, we left them open to let a bit of air, cool air in otherwise —
SC: Yeah.
SS: You burned yourself, and it’s the pilot’s job to lock it. Well I hadn’t closed them and he hadn’t locked it so they were open like that, and one closes like that, the other closes like that. Lip there and then a handle. Well he wasn’t doing very well — this second dicky. I said, ‘I’ll have a go’. So I wrapped the parachute harness behind me, I said, ‘You hold on to this because if I get blown out I want someone at the end of it’, and I climbed up there, and after about three attempts, you get this shut, and when it come to do that, you trap your fingers, ‘cause you’ve got to get them on the [unclear]. They blew open a couple of times and all the rivets was coming out. I thought, if they come off, that’s it. But I managed to close them, locked it and got all black nails, you know, getting them trapped. But as I say just, little glimpse. Flying down to Nairobi, made a very bad landing at Mogadishu, ‘cause Mogadishu, you might have heard of that on the news. Mogadishu. As you’re flying, there’s only one single runway because the Italians captured it when they captured East Africa and it was one of the main Italian airbases. Regia Aeronautica. And it had got two Minarets on one end. This side was sea, and here was the edge of the cliffs.
SC: Gosh.
SS: So, you’d only got one chance. If it was a crosswind, well it was a bit dickie but we’d got full of passengers. The brigadier was taking the family and the kids down to Nairobi, where it was a bit cooler, and we came in we got this crosswind. So Mr Parrott, our saviour on the first trip, was flying it with a Flight Lieutenant Mac Williams, an excellent pilot. But Mr Parrott was flying it and we came in and got it slightly wrong. Really it was a controlled crash, and when you hear women and kids screaming in the back end there and we came in and they had to swing it around like that and try and get it like that. It didn’t happen like that. We landed on one wheel and then we went down a bit more and a bit more. Well after about the sixth time, you lose airspeed and it’s a complete — come to a shuddering halt. Well, I don’t think, I don’t think the passengers were very happy about it but there again —
SC: Yeah.
SS: They’re not flying it. Mr Mac Williams took Mr Parrott around the back end of the machine and said. ‘You’ll never land another, not with me mate. Where did you do your flying?’ [unclear]. I was doing my checks and the elevator, the operator, the elevator spar which operates the elevator — it’s controlled by a series of little wheels which are made out of cast iron. Three wheels. The bar’s there and the three wheels accuate it and you couldn’t put oil on. We used to put [pause] oh you used to put it on bike chains as well, like black.
SC: Graphite
SS: Graphite.
SC: Yeah.
SS: That’s the stuff. The problem was, you see, Khormaksar and all these airfields, they were sand and salt, they weren’t, they weren’t proper concrete, so when you, when you opened up the throttles up, you opened the throttles, you held your stick back which brought the elevators up, which caught the dust.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Which dropped it down into the rollers, which wore flat you see. Well you could adjust these rollers, you used to unscrew and just ratchet it around a little bit, but there comes a point when you can’t adjust any more, and I was doing my checks, and I said to Mac, I said, ‘We’ve got a problem here Mac’. He said, ‘What’s that?’ I said, ‘Well you should only have a maximum — at maximum a sixty fourth of an inch plate. At maximum’. I said, ‘We’ve got a little bit more than that’. He said, ‘How much more?’ He said, ‘Well;. ‘What do you think?’ I said, ‘Well there’s no accommodation here for these women and kids and whatnot’, and I said, ‘I’ll adjust as best I can’, I said, ‘But that’s it. I’ll sign for it if you’ll fly it’. So it was a — what’s the name? A Catch 22. So, anyway I adjusted them and got them all back on again next morning. On the way down to Nairobi, Mount Kenya with the snow on the top, we were there with our shorts on and bloody khaki drill and we couldn’t get up any higher. Six thousand, six thousand foot, ‘cause we’d got no oxygen you see. I think Mount Kenya is about eleven thousand or something like that and — vibration back end. It was down there. This torsionbar goes straight through with the elevators on. That was bouncing up and down, so I went to the control column, the control column was going like this. I said, I didn’t say, ‘Houston we’ve got a problem’, because there was no Houston then, I said, ‘I think we’ve got a little problem down the back end. I know what I’ll do, I’ll sit, I’ll sit on the spar’. So, the elsan bucket, it hadn’t got a proper toilet, it was just a chemical hole and a little plywood door. That was to stop prying eyes you see. So there was the elsan, there was the bar, so, I sat on the bar like this [laughs], and Mac rings Nairobi. Fire engines and ambulances and the station warrant officer. Engineering. So, we comes in and made a nice approach, nice landing, and as we come in, saw this line of ambulances and line of fire engines, waiting for it. Oh dear. I stayed behind locking things and whatnot and I heard this voice, ‘Where’s the rigger?’ Poked my head around the door, Station warrant officer. He said, ‘Did you know this aircraft was like this?’ I said, ‘Have you asked the pilot yet? Have you spoken to him?’ I said, ‘It was a [pause] it was a choice between stopping there and waiting for spares, which might have taken days or taking the risk’. ‘Oh’, he said, and they wheeled it straight into the hangar. Didn’t see it for seven days. They had to use their own lathes and whatnot to turn because they’d got not spares and they were cast iron, they weren’t, they weren’t steel. And we had a little trip, Nairobi, If you hadn’t got a lot of money — very upper class, and then came the magic day. It’s fit so they rolls it out. Air test. And on a RAF ‘drome, you had what you called a duty crew. They serviced any aircraft that comes in, it was their job to service it and get it out and they were all sitting around. And he asked, ‘Would you like a pleasure flip?’ Pleasure flip. Well, I think we had six of them on board, plenty of room, and just outside Nairobi, there’s this game park. I’ve since been talking to a lady, a coloured lady from Nairobi and I was telling her about this episode. I said, ‘’We flew across to Ngong Hills’. She said, ‘No. Not Ngong’. She said, ‘No N. No N. Pronounced Ngong but no N’. Like magic K in [unclear] isn’t it?
SC: Yeah.
SS: And down on the deck, chasing the game and then, looking out, the ground staff had re-fuelled it and the cover which covers the petrol tank, it’s got a metal clip on it. Well they forgot to do that, and this flap is on line with the lift line on the wing, and it was coming up. Lifting and spoiling the airflow, so we had to land just a little bit quicker than normal, you know, to stop the wing from stalling then, you know.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And little incidences. And then the last flip of all before we came away. We’d been to Mogadishu to pick this spare aircraft up, we’d repaired it and we were coming back in formation and we were coming back about 4 o’clock in the afternoon and selected undercarriage down. No lights, no lights — you don’t know whether it’s down or not. Now if it’s, if it’s not down, you’ve got problems, if one wheel’s down, you’ve got problems still, but we’d got thirteen on board and we’d got — thirteen on board — we’d got six parachutes. I got one ‘cause I was part of the and oh, we’d got a problem so he rung up, rung up the tower and said, ‘We’ve got no undercarriage lights. Warning lights’. Oh. Groupie, got groupie down, Group Captain Snaith. He said, ‘Right’, he said, told the skipper, ‘Fly past slowly as if you’re landing and drop your flaps. Drop your wheels and I’ll have a shufty if they’re down’. So, he throttled right back, put the flap down, dropped the wheels. Well we thought they were alright [unclear], and he said, ‘Well everything seems to be ok’, he said, ‘But of course, I’m in the control tower and you’re out there’. So, he said, ‘Well try flying over, [unclear] and get up to six thousand’, he said, ‘And come down in a steep dive and pull up sharply and you’ll lock them down’.
SC: Lock.
SS: Very nice. And anyway, we did that, but the chap that had done the daily inspection and should have checked all this, he was on board.
SC: Right.
SS: So, we said, ‘What are you going to do about this?’ He said it might be a ball cock, it could be. Anyway, we come in, perfect landing, so that was the last trip. So the first trip in it and the last trip — they were a bit naughty, but just before we came away Number 8 Squadron was stationed permanently at Aden. Khormaksar. Don’t know why. Since 1926 they were stationed there permanently, something had gone wrong. They put up a black I think and they were there permanently. Now, they’d got Mosquitoes, silver, lovely jobs. Did a lot of reconnaissance work and one officer, the boat was in, he’d got his boat packed, he’d got his bag packed and everything and there was a young lad that used to drive, I think only about nineteen, used to drive the towing tractor. Virgil his name was. And there was a lot, there was more killed on last flights, you know, ‘We’ll just go up and have go’, more killed. Cobber Kain in, during the French — he killed himself in a Hurricane, inverted flight, and he said, ‘I’m just taking the kite up for a trip’, but this lad hadn’t flown before. So he packed him in, puts him in, put a ‘chute on him and whatnot and took off, and they’d got a bombing range just outside the airfield, and they did a couple of, a couple of runs. Third run, big bang, cloud of smoke. Gone in. That was about 10 o’clock in the morning. We buried him at two.
SC: Gosh.
SS: ‘Cause you had to do out there, it was that hot. So that was I mean ready for boating and everything but there was more on these last, last trips. But, yeah, and then we came home, and my group number had come up. Fifty eight, my demob number. And I should have stopped in. Oh I wish now I would have stopped in and made a career of it, but came the shiny jobs and the buttons and the painting of the white lines, and the white belts and [unclear], I didn’t care for that. And the Air Force had really — well it had to do because it was no longer a fighting force. And back to Heaton Park.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Not Heaton Park, just outside, just outside Preston, Warton. Kitted out, beautiful suit, pinstripe suit, trilby, mac. I’ve never been so well dressed in my life. There were lads, the spivs outside on the station giving you five pounds. Shoes, socks, suit, shirt, underwear. Giving the lads five quid to take it off your hands, I mean five quid in them days.
SC: A lot of money.
SS: Was more than a week’s wage wasn’t it? But then I did that and I went back to Celanese, finished my apprenticeship off and on to Royces. Ten years building jet engines. Chilwell — working on Rolls Royce engines for the Comet tank, went on engine test and then back to Royce’s. I went to Royce’s then building the oil engine. I went on experimental fuel injection which was a lovely job ‘till they bought Sentinals at Shrewsbury and I was down to go and then they didn’t take me. They said, ‘We’ll give you a good job on Aero’. I thought, beautiful, and I went from fuel injection pump that big to a Comet engine. An Avon.
SC: Wow.
SS: One for the Lightning and went right through Avon, Nene, the one that the Viscount used. The nice little one, just forget the name of that. On to the RCO 42, Conway. The Spey and the dreaded Tyne, the dreaded Tyne. Then the money wasn’t — I’d got a family of three then and the money wasn’t awfully good.
SC: Right.
SS: Not for the job you were doing, and only two of you built an engine in them days.
SC: Gosh.
SS: None of these you can walk around and have a look, none of that, and of course, they were all built by hand. And I went back. My dad said Celanese — or Courtaulds — they’re were building a new nylon plant and they want fitters desperately, so there weren’t much doing at the time and engine build at Royce’s you was built, the more you did you built on a bonus. Well if there’s no parts to put on the engine.
SC: Yeah.
SS: So I asked the foreman. I said, ‘There’s not much doing here. I’m going to slip up to Courtaulds’, which I did and I went up. I was thirty eight at the time and I went in, and the engineer was a racing cyclist from the Derby Mercury. He said, ‘What are you doing here?’ I said, ‘I’ve come for a job’. So, he said, ‘I desperately need fitters’. He said, ‘Can you work overtime?’ I said, ‘I can do as much as you want’. He said, ‘Right. What can I —?’ I said, ‘I’ll hand my notice in when I get back’, I said ‘And then I’ll join you on Monday’. ‘Right’. So, I went back, handed my notice in and they brought it back. They said, ‘You can’t leave’. I said, ‘You’re joking’. He said, ‘No. You can’t leave’, he said, ‘Oh no’, he said, ‘You’re contracted here’. I said, ‘I don’t think so’. So, I had to go and see the superintendent, so he said, ‘Well, what’s the exact trouble’. I said, ‘Well put it like this Walter’. Walter Hampton this is. I said, ‘Have you got your own house?’ He said, ‘Yes’. I said, ‘Have you got a car?’ He said, ‘Yes’. I said, ‘Do you go on foreign holidays?’ ‘Yes’. I said, ‘Well I don’t. I’ve got none of them things’. I said, ‘I’m on rather what you call a job that is very valuable’. I mean, jet engines. You couldn’t make any mistakes on them you know, and he said, ‘Well you’re getting seven and six an hour’. I said, ‘Of course I am’, I said, ‘An inspector’s getting twelve and six an hour and he’s only looking at it. I’m doing the work, he’s looking at it. And if it’s wrong, it’s me, not him’. I said, I said, ‘He’s a wicket keeper’, I said, ‘And he lets stuff through and all’. And he kicked me out, and then a couple of days later, this chap arrived from main works with his bowler hat and his briefcase. He said, ‘Right. You want to leave’. I said, ‘Yeah’. ‘Right’,‘ he said, ‘Six weeks. You’ll work six weeks’ notice’. I thought oh dearie me. Jumped on the little Bantam, went flying back up to Courtaulds. I said, and I saw Ted, he said, ‘You’re having a spot of trouble’. I said, ‘Yes’, I said, ‘Yes, I am’. He said, ‘Well, right, how long have you got to work?’ I said, ‘Six weeks’. ‘Right’, he said, ‘May the 8th which is Whit Monday’, he said, ‘You start on May the 8th, Whit Monday’, he said, ‘You’ll get treble time and a day off in lieu’. He said, ‘How much overtime can you work?’ He said, ‘You can work till 10 o’clock every night if you want’, he said, ‘We want all these machines in. You know. Installing’. And he said every Saturday and Sunday’, [laughs] every Saturday and Sunday. Well, in a month, I got my first car. The Ford Pop, sixty five pound, ten pound down and the rest when you get it from [unclear] garage.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And as I said I worked there and I finished. I worked a little bit extra because I didn’t want to leave. I didn’t feel like leaving. And I did a lot of experimental work and a lot of — made, made Courtaulds a lot of money, because on this nylon, you had to do what you could with it. Twist it, stretch it and all that caper, and it was purely development work and I enjoyed that. And then they shut, they shut the plant down, seven hundred and eighty, bang, just like that. So, I stayed on a little bit to sort the machines out and sell stuff and they promised me a job. So, when, when we finished finally, I went up to the office, the labour bloke said, ‘Right’, he said, ‘I’ve got all your redundancy papers ready’. I said, ‘Well you know what you can do with them’, I said, ‘They promised us a job’. ‘Oh’. he said, ‘Well’, he said, ‘Things have altered’, he said, ‘The two chaps that you were going to replace’, he said,’ they have gone up to the worst plant on the firm. CA Department, where all the chemicals is and acids’, he said, ‘They left spinning’, he said, ‘Now if you contact them and ask them if they want to go back to spinning, or do they want to stop on CA. They’ll stop on CA because it’s thruppence an hour more, because it’s dirt money. Danger money more or less’, and he said, ‘And you’ll go back on to spinning’. I said, ‘That’s alright’, I said, ‘I were building, when I came back out the RAF, I was building spinning machines on that where you’re going to send me. So, roll back the years’.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And he said, ‘Can you fit a spinning pump?’ I said, ‘Well put it this way, we put these machines in in 1947, so I think I’m a bit qualified’. And then I did — I worked longer there and I went to the twenty five years dinner, and I sat next to one of the directors. He said, ‘How old are you?’ I said. He said, ‘You never are’. I said, ‘I am’. He says, ‘Well do you feel like, do you feel like packing up?’ I said, ‘No, I don’t feel like packing up’. He said, ‘Do you think you could still —?’ ‘Of course I could still do the job’. He said, ‘Well you needn’t leave, you know’. Well, when I went back, my foreman was doing his nut. ‘I don’t know what I’m going to do without you’. So, when I went back, they were queuing up for my job, the lads, so, I went back and I said, ‘Well I’m staying’. ‘You can’t do that. You can’t stay’. I said, ‘Well go and ask Mr White, the director, I’ve had a word with him’. And I saw the engineer, he said, ‘Right’, he said, ‘It’s like this’, he said, ‘Things aren’t very well at the moment, things aren’t doing well’, he said, ‘What we’ll do is — a three monthly basis’, he said. ‘After three months, if you want to pack up, you pack up. After three months, if things run into a —?’ I said, ‘That’s fair enough, that’s fair enough’. And they give me a marvellous party coming away, they said, how many, how many, well by now the firm was, you know, they lost big. They said, ‘How many people do you know on the firm?’ I said, ‘About all of them’. He said, ‘You’re not having that lot, he said, ‘You can have a hundred’. I said, ‘That fair enough’. So the wife picked us up in a taxi, and — a marvellous meal, and the engineer, he said ‘I don’t know what to say about this lad’, he said, he said, ‘He’s had rather — he’s had rather an interesting —' so he gets like a toilet, have you seen these things. Paper that goes like that’. So, he picks it up, he said, ‘Right’, he said, ‘You started here’. I said, ‘I didn’t’, He said, I said, ‘No. I didn’t. I started at [unclear]’ ‘Oh, and then you moved on’, I said, ‘No, I didn’t move on to there’. So, he let this paper go and it went like this, and he said, ‘Well I’m not going to say anymore’, he said, ‘Because what I’m going to tell you will be wrong in any case’. But, and never once in my life, never once have I got up in the morning and said, ‘I don’t want to go today’, because work is your life really. I mean that is it, and if and the problem is if a person’s not happy in the job he’s doing, it does more damage.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Because he goes, knowing very well that he’s not going to have a very good day, and that in itself and, and it rubs off, because when he gets home from a day’s work, his wife, he makes his wife have it because — it’s not her fault.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And the kids, it’s not the kids fault.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And that’s why, when I lost, I nursed the wife for about seven years from here. So we did eighteen years up at the aero park every Sunday.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Fetching the aircraft in, because there was only moi who knew how to go about it. Hunter from Alconbury, the Lightning from Warton, a Saudi Lightning from Warton, the Canberra from Cosford. All these different places.
SC: Yeah.
SS: I thoroughly enjoyed it. I helped to build it, helped to move it across, and then of course, when Jan used to go up every Sunday, you know, make stuff. A buffet, and really get involved there. I was the vice chairman.
SC: And just, just for the recording.
SS: Yeah.
SC: That’s the aero park at East Midlands Airport.
SS: Yeah.
SC: Yes.
SS: It started in 1984.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And we’d only got one aircraft. Graham Vale’s Varsity, which is still there, and he’s still the chairman, because if he goes, the Varsity goes. But we used to run the Varsity because the Varsity is a tin Wellington.
SC: Right.
SS: It’s exactly the same as a Wellington but its metal, exactly the same. Apart from the turrets, which don’t [unclear]. And yeah. The flying club used to give us eighty quids worth of hundred octane petrol, it wouldn’t run on eighty, a hundred octane. So the old bowsers used to come round and squeeze in and we had a twenty minute run. Used to run port starboard in the cockpit. [unclear] for the public.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Run it for the public, and for us, and it would have flown, that thing. I would, it would have flown because we’d got the revs and everything on it. And yes, I did eighteen years there. British Legion. All by the side is we ran a discotheque club 1969 ‘til ’83, up at the Celanese club here. Every Sunday night, teenagers disco, we had the finest disco light display stereo in Derby. All done free. Did it all for the firm, you know because it was for the firm, and then we did ballroom dancing. Strictly tempo, sequence dancing. Then I became a — I’d always been in the British Legion at Spondon, and I became entertainments officer, and I used to do — I did the VE dance, the VJ dance. Did numerous charities for Gurkha regiments, FIPO, all these different. Every farthing went to charity, did a lot of charity work and of course, when Jannie was really poorly, we couldn’t do it anymore. And I hope I’m a Christian, I hope I’m a Christian, and I used to go to chapel and of course the last few days, I couldn’t go because she was poorly, and finally, after three trips to the hospital they’d been treating her for [pause], what’s the name — shingles, and it was aggressive leukaemia. And so, I nursed her all through that, and they had her in for two days and decided — for you, it’s the Liverpool pathway. So, you get no choice, you don’t get any choice at all. Just withdraw medication, food, liquid.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Everything. And that was nearly six years ago which was, when you’ve been married fifty eight years.
SC: Gosh
SS: Where I’m working now, I met her at the Angler’s Arms. Used to call it the Stranglers Arms. And when I was cycling, I had one or two crashes, and I remember one August had a right crash and busted my collar bone, and we used to go there to the little dances that used to be on a Friday night and that’s where I met her. It wasn’t love at first sight. No, I had my twenty four inch bottoms, yellow socks, brothel creepers, suit shoulders out here, draped shape. Looked more like a gangster when I put it on. And she was a clippy on the Derby Corporation. She’d been a nurse but she caught everything that was going and was advised to get an outdoor job. There’s nothing more outdoor than an open double decker.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And then yeah, we got three. Three. I’ve got two sons. One’s — what is he now? I’ve got a daughter fifty nine, the son is fifty seven and then the younger one is fifty this year. Numerous grandchildren, and I think to myself sheer luck, sheer luck. If I walk — I had bronchial pneumonia a couple of years ago and that knocked me for six, if I walk about fifty yards now, I’m jiggered, absolutely jiggered. Can’t get my —. Considering, I smoked for over twenty years. Seventy years, sorry. Smoked for seventy years. I started with a clay pipe and a packet of tuppeny sage with no onion, and the old pipe used to glow, the bowl used to glow red hot. And then of course, when you’re fourteen, you automatically become a man and you start on the old Park Drive Woodbine. You graduate to the full Capstan, and overseas, they used to throw them at you by the hundred, you know. They used to throw them by the hundred, but they never said anything.
SC: No. No.
SS: And I worked in blue Asbestos at Courtaulds for over thirty years.
SC: Gosh.
SS: And as I say — this dance. I tried to get in touch with them I worked with. There’s only two, the rest I worked with in engineering have gone.
SC: Yeah. Yeah.
SS: Just —
SC: Yeah.
SS: But there again — pure luck. Pure luck. And they say, ‘Oh you do look well. Oh, you do look well’, but you do.
SC: And you do.
SS: I get up in the morning sometimes, you know, and I think, no, but I used to work five days a week, sometimes six.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Looking after these, a lot of them younger myself, and I found out I could sit and talk to them.
SC: Yeah.
SS: We were on the same wavelength.
SC: Yeah.
SS: If you’re ninety, and they’re around about that age, you can talk about the old times, the bad old days and you can work your way through the wireless set, the television.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And you can have — always wind up laughing.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And I loved music. I can go, I’ve got three hundred LPs, singles. I love music. I play music like a therapy. But when we’re not playing music and you’re sitting in the lounge, and one of them suddenly starts singing and they all join in and they’re the old music hall songs that Florrie Forde used to sing and it is. I’ve worked in a lot of places, and this is the most happiest place I’ve ever worked because there’s somebody worse than you.
SC: Yeah.
SS: But the only trouble Is, you make friends with them, you sit and talk for hours and then one morning you go in, and they say [unclear] passed away in the night.
SC: Yeah.
SS: And I’ve been there getting on for five years and we’ve lost forty.
SC: Yeah.
SS: Which is about, you know, it’s about par for the course.
SC: Yeah.
SS: But I don’t grieve. I don’t grieve for them because in fact, they’re going to a better place because half of them they can’t see, they can’t walk. They can’t. And really you wouldn’t treat a dog like that.
SC: Yeah.
SS: You wouldn’t treat a dog like that.
SC: I’m going to switch this off now.
SS: Lovely.
SC: ‘Cause I think —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Stanley Shaw
Creator
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Steve Cooke
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-14
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AShawS160114, PShawSR1604
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Format
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01:45:54 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Stanley Shaw was born in 1926 in Derby and left school at Easter 1940 where he worked in a garage looking after fuel for the nearby camp at Spondon. He saw some soldiers who had returned from Dunkirk, who were reporting to their headquarters.
Stanley joined the Air Training Corp after hearing a broadcast from the Air Ministry asking for volunteers. He tells the stories of the other 3 who joined up with him. He was an apprentice fitter with Celanese and had to break that apprenticeship to sign up for the Royal Air Force at the age of 18.
On joining up, he helped form 1117 Squadron, before moving to Burnaston where they had Tiger Moths and Miles Magisters and then moving on to 16 AFTS Flight Training School. He also flew Whitleys, Avro Ansons and Bristol Blenheims from Ashbourne Aerodrome. He also tells of his experiences with the Vickers Wellingtons and the Avro Lancasters.
Stanley was posted to 54 Maintenance, Repair and Salvage unit at Cambridge and was tasked with salvaging aircraft that crash, no matter whose aircraft they were. He tells of his experiences in his line of work, some good and some bad.
After the war, Stanley returned to Celanese and finished his apprenticeship before moving to Royces, where he spent 10 years building jet engines, before working at Chilwell, working on the Rolls Royce engines for the Comet tank. He returned to work at Celanese until he retired.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Vivienne Tincombe
B-24
B-25
Catalina
final resting place
fitter airframe
ground crew
Ju 88
Lancaster
Me 109
Me 163
military living conditions
Mosquito
Nissen hut
Stirling
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/551/8815/PLancasterJ1501.2.jpg
794d475655253509adf90821a41de268
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/551/8815/ALancasterJO170308.1.mp3
0854aad26e9a380b5f2a5cc40af42a9a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Lancaster, Jo
John Oliver Lancaster
J O Lancaster
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Lancaster, JO
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. Two oral history interviews with John Oliver 'Jo' Lancaster DFC (1919 - 2019, 948392, 103509 Royal Air Force), photographs and six of his log books. Jo Lancaster completed 54 operations as a pilot with in Wellingtons with 40 Squadron, and after a period of instructing, in Lancasters with 12 Squadron from RAF Wickenby. He became test pilot after the war and was the first person to use a Martin-Baker ejection seat in an emergency.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Jo Lancaster and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-18
2017-03-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 8th of March 2017 and I’m in Hassocks with John Lancaster. Jo Lancaster. To talk about his long career in the RAF and as a test pilot afterwards. So, Jo, what are the earliest recollections of life that you have in the family?
JL: I was born in Penrith in Cumberland. In the Lake District. I was very lucky really. I didn’t realise it much at the time. And my first ideas of aeroplanes were drawn entirely from, from books. They were very rarely seen over Cumberland. If they were they were just a spot in the sky making a humming noise but I became very interested in aeroplanes and made models out of the rough materials I could find to hand. I eventually had a flying model with an elastic band which gave me great, great fun but I never actually saw an aeroplane close to until I was about aged sixteen when a Gypsy Moth made a landing due to bad weather in the, in the area. I left school in 1935 aged sixteen and it was during that summer that Alan Cobham’s Flying Circus visited Penrith and I had my first flight in an Avro 504. I remember that well. There was a bench seat going forward and aft of the rear cockpit on which you sat astride and a young lady who I didn’t know was my co-passenger and she just put her head down in the cockpit and screamed throughout the whole flight. [laughs] But I thoroughly enjoyed it. I could see the engine with the tapits, with the bells going up and down. The exposed bells. And it was on that flight that the pilot had a piece of piano wire on the wing tip and picked up bits of cloth from the ground with it. I was completely bitten by flying then but there was little chance of it in the, in the near future. I left school at sixteen and I didn’t want to go to university. In point of fact I couldn’t really because my father’s business had a bad time during the recession and there wasn’t any money left in the kitty but I didn’t mind that. I didn’t want to go to university. I wanted to go out and get amongst mechanical things and an aircraft apprenticeship seemed to be the answer. We considered the RAF apprenticeship scheme, I forget where now. Henlow. Not Henlow.
CB: Halton.
JL: Halton. Considered the RAF apprenticeship scheme at Halton but I wanted to be in the start of the aeroplane flight and not, not the sort of maintenance of it and so I, somehow or other, got a list of aircraft manufacturers in Britain who were offering apprenticeships. Some of them wanted premiums so that put them out but Armstrong Whitworth sounded the best and in due course my father accompanied me down to Coventry for an interview. And I was accepted and joined Armstrong Whitworth in October 1935 starting a five year apprenticeship. The apprenticeship was very good. We had pay and we had one morning and one afternoon off paid time for, to attend the local technical college. [Cough] Can we have a pause?
CB: Yeah.
[Recording paused]
CB: So you’re at Coventry.
JL: The apprenticeship.
CB: And you’re just on the apprenticeship.
JL: Yes. When I — I went down to Coventry to take up my apprenticeship having negotiated some digs through the local paper. I didn’t like the digs we had, I had but [pause - interference] but when I first started there [I feel sure?] it was at the airfield at Wheatley, an old World War One airfield with still the original hangars. I first of all went to, as a stop-gap to the final assembly unit where they were building Hawker Hart trainers. I found everybody very very friendly and one of the almost time expired apprentices, expired apprentices asked me about my digs and I said I didn’t like them and he said there was a vacancy at his digs so I was very glad to go there and I, I was there for over three years. Nearly four years in fact. In, in the original interview it was, it was stressed that there would be no flying involved in the apprenticeship but I had ideas that I would join the, what was then the RAF Class F Reserve which operated very similarly to the Territorial Army. Consisted mostly of a two week summer camp. But on reaching the age of eighteen that coincided with the start of the RAF Volunteer Reserve and I joined straight away and followed that up with the full time ab initio training course at Sywell in July of 1937. Having done that I went back to, to my apprenticeship of course and attended the local RAF, [pause] oh dear. Elementary Reserve Training School at Ansty. That was local to Coventry. During the day, during the weekdays the instructors there were instructing a course of short service, short service commission pilots and at evenings or other times when convenient as at weekends they were training the volunteer reservists. There instead of Tiger Moths as at Sywell we had Avro Cadets with Armstrong Siddeley Genet engines and I converted on to Cadets and then converted on to Hawker Harts. When I was still eighteen I was flying solo on Hawker Harts which was a beautiful aeroplane.
[pause]
JL: I don’t know how to continue.
CB: We’ll stop just for a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: You mentioned digs. People don’t seem to have digs now so what were they and how did it work?
JL: Well my first digs, which were arranged through the local, by post through the local paper, when I got there I didn’t know the people. I didn’t care for them very much. I was there for really just over a week I think and I was happy to leave when my new acquaintance apprentice, Tony Carpenter suggested I join him in his digs. There I was with a family, or we were with a family. Mrs Hinder who was a widow, widow of a parson and her two children Ruby and Percy. So there were five of us in the house and Mrs Hinder provided us with breakfast, a packed lunch, an evening meal five days a week and breakfast and all the other meals during the weekend at the princely sum of twenty five shillings a week.
CB: Brilliant. Yes. And what about your washing?
JL: I can’t remember. I didn’t do it. They must. It probably went to, I don’t know. I don’t suppose she did it. I don’t remember.
CB: What sort of hours did you work in those days?
JL: We had to be there at 8 o’clock in the morning. We had a half hour’s break for lunch and left at 5 o’clock four days of the week and half past five on Thursdays. And Saturday morning it was 8 o’clock till twelve [cough] I shall have to go and get another drink.
CB: Ok.
[Recording paused]
CB: That’s really useful so when we have the time to talk about the apprenticeship how did the apprenticeship work?
JL: Well as I said I actually started in final assembly but I was only there a couple of weeks. That was a stop-gap and then I was moved to what they called a detailed fitting shop where all the various parts of the aircraft were made using hand tools. And I was there for probably nine months and then I moved to the milling machine shop. Learned how to work a milling machine and then moved on from that to working a, working on a lathe. Learned all about lathe work. Then I went to sub-assembly where units of the aircraft were assembled. The aircraft going through at this time was the Whitley. And then eventually I went on to, moved up to Baginton. The new airfield and the new factory on final assembly and I was there until the — when the war started. I was, I was held back until I joined the — the RAF decided to have me back in January 1940. But I wasn’t actually called up until June of 1940. Incidentally there was a rather amusing episode in May of 1939. Shortly before the war. Everybody knew the war was coming. They had to re-introduce conscription and I was a bullseye for the first age group and I had to go and have an interview with a little [petrie?] army major so I lost no time in telling him I didn’t want to join his army and I was a trained engineer and a trained pilot and he said, ‘Well you’ll be, you’ll be a dead cert for the Royal Army Ordinance Corps.’ And why he said that and not the Royal Engineers I don’t know. But anyway the war started and in no time at all I received a letter containing a traveling warrant to Budbrooke Barracks and a postal order for the four shillings in advance of pay to join the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.
CB: Oh.
JL: So I dashed down to, and by this time they had a combined recruiting centre in Coventry. They’d taken over a skating rink, a roller skating rink. And the air force recruiting officer was no help at all but the naval recruiting officer was a Chief Petty Officer Brown and I went and told him my problem and he said, ‘Well we’ll get you out of that,’ and he took me on for the navy on, on deferred service. So I then got a letter saying please return the travelling warrant and postal order. You need not now apply, attend Budbrooke Barracks. So whilst, whilst I was on deferred service for the navy the RAF changed their mind and decided to have me back and, but I didn’t actually re-join until about June of 1940 starting with a six weeks course at ITW Initial Training Wing at Paignton in Devon. And then we were all disbursed to [pause] God. [pause] Sorry, this is my brain. [pause]
CB: From ITW you went to Initial Training Wing.
JL: Well it was Flying Training School.
CB: Yes but at Sywell again.
JL: The first one was Sywell.
CB: Yes.
JL: But this time, after the war started it was Desford near Leicester
CB: Oh yes.
WT: Yes. Desford. Yes.
JO: Yes. Yes. We were, we were all divided up. I went, I went to Desford with some others. During the, during this ab initio course the Battle of Britain was in full swing and of course we all wanted to be fighter pilots and I was in fact selected to be a fighter pilot and sent to number five elementary flying, 5 Flying Training School at Sealand which had Miles Masters and there I was going to be a fighter pilot. I trained on Miles Masters. Later — later in the — we were down, we moved from Sealand down to Ternhill in Shropshire and continued training there but the, during the winter ‘40/41 it was very bad. The training — some of us got well behind and I was on a course of about forty eight divided into four flights of twelve and our flight was the only one, was the only one who succeeded in doing the night flying part of the syllabus on Masters and at the end of the course the whole flight was posted to bomber OTUs whilst the rest went to fighters. And I went to Lossiemouth, 20 OTU as I remember and was converted on to Wellingtons. I was very cross about this at the time but in the event I think it was the right thing to do. When I got to Lossiemouth we were next door to [pause] oh dear [pause] sorry. A Whitley OTU.
WT: Wycombe?
JL: Hmmn?
WT: Wycombe
JL: No. A Whitley OTU up in Scotland. Oh God. I’m sorry.
CB: Was it on, was it a coastal OTU or was it a Bomber Command OTU?
JL: It was a bombing.
CB: Whitleys. Yes.
JL: I was at Lossiemouth converting on to Wellingtons.
CB: Yes.
JL: At 20 OTU.
CB: Yes.
JL: And there was another OTU only about ten miles away with Whitleys. It was well known. It’s still open.
CB: Yes. Kinloss.
JL: Kinloss. Yes.
CB: Yes. Yeah.
JL: Sorry. Thank you.
CB: It’s ok.
JL: I got an interview with the group captain of Lossiemouth called Group Captain Smyth-Piggott and told him that I had been building Whitleys and knew all about them and that I’d like to convert. To transfer to Whitleys. And he wouldn’t have it so I was stuck with Wellingtons. And so we were paired off as pilots with first and second pilot. I was the first pilot and my second pilot was Derek Townsend and having done our conversion training we then had to be crewed up and we were all ushered into a hangar with the right proportions of pilots, navigators, wireless operators and air gunners. And Derek and I wandered around looking at people we’d never seen before and we eventually finished up with a Canadian navigator Glen Leach, a very Welsh wireless operator called Jack Crowther, another Canadian front gunner and a New Zealand rear gunner. Now, at that time I’d never met a Canadian before and I was just, I was surprised they spoke like people we saw in the cinema. But I hardly knew where New Zealand was. Anyway, we went down to that, to the pub in Lossiemouth that night and we were blood brothers from then for the rest of our lives.
[pause]
CB: Right. Stop there for a mo.
[Recording paused]
JL: What had happened.
CB: At Desford. Yeah.
JL: At Desford. We did a — went off and did a flight. When we landed he said, ‘You haven’t forgotten how to fly.’
CB: But you still had to go through.
JL: I still had to do the whole thing through.
CB: The whole thing.
JL: Yes.
CB: Because that’s the way the process ran. Can we just go back to your VR time because you might have continued with that but how long were you in the VR, flying and what caused you to cease?
JL: Well I as I say I was being converted on to — [pause] Oh God.
CB: On to the Hart. Yeah.
JL: Cadets.
CB: Oh the Cadet. Yes.
JL: And Harts. I was flying Harts at a very tender age and I was the ace. I thought I was the ace of the base. And one Sunday after a very bad period of weather where there was no flying we had a very fine Sunday morning in April 1938 and I dashed out to Ansty. There were no Harts available but I was given a, alloted a Cadet to go and do aerobatics and off I went. There was something wrong with the engine actually. It tended to choke and had to be re-started. I wasn’t even bothered with that. I went off and I did some aerobatics. I got doing a slow roll. There was a fire extinguisher under the dashboard and the instrument panel and on the final turn with full top rudder the fire extinguisher fell out and got behind the rudder bar so when I got right way up I got a whole lot of left rudder on. I managed to sort of kick it halfway through the fabric so that I could get steering rudder and instead of going back to Ansty as I should have done I became insane and landed at Wheatley. Well it was a Sunday so there was only a sort of a maintenance man there. When he walked up I gave him the fire extinguisher and took off again. And then, then I, my fellow digs chap, Tony Carpenter, he couldn’t join the VR because of his eyesight but he bought all sort of what we would call a microlight called a dart splitter mouse and he had it at a field near Kenilworth and I then went over to him and did a few aerobatics there. Then I did what was actually a perfectly legal exercise. A simulated forced landing where you from two thousand feet or whatever you throttle the engine back and did an approach on to a suitable field, opened it up and go around again at the end. I did what the, I opened up and the engines stopped and I went through a hedge so that’s rather spoiled things and I was thrown out. You’ll find it in there.
WT: Gosh.
JL: I wasn’t thrown out for going through the hedge. I was thrown out for doing low level aerobatics.
CB: Ah
JL: That was because very very close by was Kenilworth Golf Club and playing golf that morning was a chap called Tom Chapman who was a director of Armstrong Siddeley’s who was hand in glove with Armstrong Whitworth’s and he, he reported it. [laughs] Tom Chapman. Bless his heart.
CB: You never became friends.
JL: I never met him.
[pause]
CB: Right. So we’ve got to the stage that you’re at Lossiemouth and you’ve crewed up. This crewing up — could you just explain how it actually happened? The process.
JL: Well Derek and I just wandered around looking at people’s brevets and we got together a navigator. We found this Canadian with a, he had the O brevet.
CB: Yeah.
JL: He was very proud of that. The Observer. Asked him and he came along and we continued the process till we got the full crew. And we all, we all agreed to meet in the pub that night and we were thick as thieves from that time on.
CB: So how long were you together for?
JL: Well from Lossiemouth, when we were crewed up we did a number of cross country exercises [cough] oh dear. To finish the course. Air firing and practice bombing and then we were posted as a crew to 40 Squadron at Wyton. So we all went off on leave and we all arrived at Wyton on the appointed day only to be told that we weren’t supposed to be at Wyton. We were supposed to be at Alconbury. The satellite. And so we got a service bus from Wyton to Alconbury and signed in there and we were promptly all put on a charge for arriving late. And we were, what are the — ? [pause] I forget the expression was. The lowest. The lowest telling off. So that wasn’t a very good start because we didn’t like the WingCo much anyway. He wasn’t a very popular chap. A [jock?]. Wing Commander Davey. Anyway, we were, then Derek, Derek left us to join another crew and we were given a captain in the form of a Jim Taylor who — he’d already done a lot of ops and he took us on our first eight ops and then he left us. He was, he was screened and I took over as captain and we were given a series of second pilots from then on. And we succeeded in surviving thirty operations including a daylight on Brest. And then we, then we all split up.
CB: So this is in a Wellington.
JL: Yes. And I was posted to a Wellington OTU as a, as an instructor [coughs] oh dear. I’m sorry about this.
CB: Ok. Would you like to stop for a mo?
[Recording paused]
CB: So can we just talk about the tour? The aircraft was a Wellington. Which model?
JL: Yes. Throughout this period all my flying was on Wellington 1Cs which was powered by Bristol Pegasus Mark xviii and with these it was very very underpowered. It was supposed to be able to fly on one engine but in fact it couldn’t because it had non-feathering propellers.
CB: Oh.
JL: Fortunately the engines were fairly reliable. The most common problem would be that one of the rocker boxes would break loose from the cylinder head which introduced, which put that cylinder out of use and caused it to be, to vibrate rather a lot. That happened from time to time. But at least you had the use of most of the engine.
CB: So you couldn’t really feather. You couldn’t feather the prop.
JL: No. No.
CB: So you kept it running did you or you stopped it? The drag was huge.
JL: Well if you lost the engine it just, just windmilled.
CB: Yeah. Right.
JL: Caused a lot of drag.
CB: So of the ops, one of them was to Brest. What was that like?
JL: There was one occasion when we went off. Actually it was fortunately in daylight and when we got up to about seventeen hundred feet and the oil, the oil pressure on one engine dropped to zero. I looked out and there was oil all over the engine but fortunately we were just within a mile or so of Wyton and I was able to drop straight down and land in Wyton complete with a full load of petrol and bombs. But had, had it been dark the situation would have been very different. It was too late to bale out and we had a full load of bombs and it was dark.
CB: In circumstances where you’re still, you’ve still got your full load of bombs what was the proper procedure?
JL: Sorry?
CB: In the circumstances where there was difficulty with the aircraft and you had a full load of bombs what was the proper procedure as far as the bomb load was concerned? Were you supposed to jettison or keep them?
JL: Well normally only jettison over the sea.
CB: Right.
JL: But of course you had to be in full control of the aircraft. If you lost an engine and you weren’t able to, to maintain flight you’d probably leave them where they were.
CB: So thinking of the rest of the tour how did the ops go on that? You had a bit of variety. They were all at night were they?
JL: All except one. The 24th of July 1941 there was a major daylight operation on Brest in which we were involved. The squadron sent six aircraft in two lots of three. The other three lost, lost one aircraft in a direct hit but our three all survived. Knocked about but still working.
CB: So the other one was lost to flak.
JL: Yes.
CB: What operating height were you using then?
JL: Twelve and a half thousand feet.
CB: And what bomb load were you carrying?
JL: Probably five. I can’t tell you. I didn’t record these. Probably five hundred pound armour piercing but it was all a waste of time as I discovered later. Much later. I visited Lorient after the war and went and saw the U-boat pens there and none of our bombs would ever do anything to them. They had a huge roof about two metres thick and then a false roof on top of that. You could see where bombs had hit it. There was just a little pock mark. That’s all. We were all wasting our time. I don’t know what our intelligence people were doing. Thinking about.
CB: So for the other ops then. These were at night. Where? Where were they going? Where were the targets?
JL: Mostly in Germany but we did one to [pause] oh Christ, I’m sorry.
CB: Was it a port?
JL: On the Baltic.
CB: Right. Kiel or Wilhelmshaven. Bremen.
JL: Further east.
CB: Ah.
JL: Poland.
CB: Oh. Danzig.
JL: Oh God. I’m sorry. My brain’s going on strike.
CB: Stettin.
JL: Stettin. Thank you.
CB: Right. So that was a port. And what were you after there? The shipping. Were you?
JL: The port. Yes. That was a long one. That’s well over nine hours. We had overload tanks.
CB: The overload tanks were jettisonable or were they inside the aircraft?
JL: Oh no. They were, they were in the bomb bay.
CB: Oh right.
JL: So we had a reduced bomb load.
CB: And this is the early part of the war so how were you getting on in terms of navigation and pinpointing the target?
JL: There was very little to help us with navigation. We had a choice of dead reckoning and any pinpointing we could get. At night, providing there was no cloud, water could usually be seen. The River Rhine. We used to get quite a bit of haze over the Ruhr but you could usually pick out the Rhine. All the coastlines and harbours. We did have Hamburg two or three times. Bremen. Wilhelmshaven. Berlin. Most of them were to the Ruhr though. I think we did [pause], oh God my brain.
CB: So there was flak all the time but to what extent were there —?
JL: Nearly all the time. Yes.
CB: What about night fighters? Were they?
JL: We were attacked. Yes. On the way back from Berlin actually. We were. Berlin was clear but there was, on the way back we encountered cloud and we were being shot at through the cloud pretty well continuously. And we couldn’t understand this because we shouldn’t have been but what had happened was that the forecast wind which was all we had had changed and they’d taken us north and we were actually going down via Hamburg, Bremen, Emden but eventually there was a break in the clouds and as I looked down I could see the causeway across the mouth of the Zuiderzee and as I reported this and obviously everybody, including the rear gunner, was looking down and it was just at that moment that a burst of fire went right over the top of us followed by an ME110. And we didn’t see it. We were lucky. But anyway, anyway we went down a very steep spiral and this 110 tried to follow us and Keith Coleman, our New Zealand rear gunner got a good shot at it and we both went into cloud and we never knew what happened to it but after the war some people checked up on it and there were no night fighters shot down that night but one inexplicably crashed on landing and it’s just possible it might have been the one.
CB: Because you’d damaged it. Yeah. Now, in those days had the corkscrew evasion system operated or did you make up your own technique for avoiding a fighter?
JL: Well, only, only did corkscrewing if you were, if you were attacked. In my second tour actually it was different. It was my own idea. I kept changing course and height. Five hundred feet up. Five hundred feet up. Turned left, then right. Pretty well all the time because the eighty eight millimetre guns were radar controlled and they were bloody good. So by doing that we were never actually seriously shot at. Not enroute.
CB: You mentioned that you had various co-pilots. Why was that? Were they being prepared for captaincy themselves or what?
JL: Yes. They were doing their training before taking over their own crew. I’m very sorry.
[Recording paused]
JL: That was the daylight raid on, on Brest I think.
CB: Oh. We talked about the 110 just now but what, on what other occasion were you attacked by a fighter?
JL: On the daylight raid on Brest in July there were several 110s about. Sorry. Correction. 109s about.
CB: Yes.
JL: But there were a lot of Wellingtons about and they were all, they were all firing at these 109s and one went, certainly went down because the pilot baled out but all the others tend to claim it. [laughs]
CB: Right. Is that your —
JL: In retrospect it’s impossible to say who hit it.
CB: Yeah. Ok.
JL: We had, we had beam guns but both my gunners, front and rear were blasting away and we had two beam gunners with Vickers, Vickers VJOs fitted up and the second, our second pilot and the wireless op were blasting away with theirs as well and of course all the Wellingtons were probably doing the same thing so the sky was absolutely full of CO3.
CB: Right. So in your flying training at Ternhill what sort of people were there?
JL: We had two American air force officers. Sam Morinello and the other one was called Galbraith. But of course they left us to join their Eagle Squadrons. We also had Neville Duke.
CB: Oh right.
JL: And we had David. Oh God, here we go again [pause] oh I’m sorry. My brain’s —
CB: It’s alright. That’s interesting Neville Duke because he took the world speed record in the Hunter.
JL: Yes.
CB: Didn’t he? In the fifties.
JL: He was also on the same course at ITW.
CB: Was he? Yeah. What about these Americans then. What were they like? Because they weren’t in the war and they’d volunteered to join?
JL: Yes. Well most Americans joined the Royal Canadian Air Force but these two didn’t. Sam Morinello had done a lot of parachute jumps. Just what he’d, they’d been doing. I think they both had pilot training. Why they didn’t join the Canadian Air Force I don’t know but I suppose this was the — they wanted to be certain to get to the American squadrons.
CB: So they were posted to the Eagle Squadrons.
JL: Yes.
CB: Yeah.
JL: Yes. They were. I think they distinguished themselves fairly well later on.
CB: And how did they fit into the general way of things because they were a different culture?
JL: Oh well. Very well. I’m trying to think of the name of this. His father was chief. Well his father was a pre-war, a World War One pilot. He became a chief designer at Bristol and he had four sons. He was killed in 1938 flying one of his own design and the [pause] and the three sons, I think it was three sons. Might have been more. So, anyway, two of them were killed early in the war and this David. He was just one of the boys. Happy. We knew nothing at all about his background at all.
CB: Oh dear.
JL: But he, unfortunately he was killed as well. Oh God. The name, name, name. [I must have written it?] I bet it’s in there.
CB: Ok. Right. We’ll stop just for a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: So going back to the time when you finished at 40 Squadron. Where were posted and why?
JL: I was posted to Wellesbourne Mountford for instructional duties. Wellesbourne Mountford being Number 22 OTU. Operational Training Unit. Still with Wellington 1Cs. I was attached to the conversion flight. I was converting them to fly the Wellington after which they did their navigational exercises. I didn’t like the job at all. I’m not born, I wasn’t born to be an instructor and I was very unhappy about it. Not only that but it involved night flying details and in the winter the night flying practice was divided up into four sessions being 6 till 9, 9 till 12, 12 till 3 and 3 till 6 and if you were on a late show you know you had to be out at 3 o’clock on a cold, miserable morning and go and do three hours circuits and landings and that was not very funny. I discovered that there was, at Central Flying School, they ran a course for OTU instructors so I asked to go on that which I did but it didn’t help. It didn’t help me much. When I went back to Wellesbourne I was still doing conversion training. Then in July another OTU opened at what is now East Midlands Airport.
CB: Castle Donington.
JL: Castle Donington. That had just opened and I was posted there. When I got there there were four or five other people there and no aeroplanes. So we had a nice time for a while. Then we collected some aeroplanes and started training. Right. Now we start. Originally I was on conversion training but then I went on to the navigation side and I was sent on a cross country with a, a five hour cross country, with a pupil crew and when I got — this was in October ‘42 and when I got back I found I was rostered to go on what they called a bullseye that night which is an exercise cooperating with the Observer Corps and the ground defences. I went to the mess and there was no food and there was no option but to go back down to the flight and took over yet another pupil crew I’d never met before. We went off on this bullseye. We got, we got over the Solway Firth, we were actually going to North Wales but via the Solway Firth and we hit icy conditions. Ice was [cough] ice was banging away on the side. I discovered that the wireless operator had declared his apparatus unserviceable. I’d no idea what the navigator was like. I was frozen stiff so I decided to go home. We were over ten tenths cloud as they called it and so I flew east for a long long long way before letting down safely and then found my way back to, to the airfield. The next day I was on the carpet for abandoning the bullseye. I explained everything but it didn’t cut any ice. This wing commander who hadn’t done a thing I think for himself demanded to see my logbook and in my logbook I’d cut out a little comic thing from a flight magazine where the caption was, “All the way from Hamburg on one engine,” and of course it was a chap sitting astride just an engine and this wing commander took exception to this and told me to take it off. By this time I told him I didn’t want to take it out. And we departed. We departed the worst of friends and very shortly after that a posting came through for me to 150 Squadron at Snaith which I quite welcomed because I was absolutely sick of OTUs. When I got to Snaith the wing commander said, ‘Who are you and what have you come for?’ So I said, ‘I don’t know why I’ve come, sir. [laughs] I’ve just been posted.’ And he said, ‘Well what do you want to do?’ I said, ‘I want to go on a Lancaster squadron.’ And so I did about three flights in their aircraft. 150 Squadron’s. They had Wellingtons 3s by then with a Hercules. And then I was posted to, [cough] oh dear. I’m sorry. 12 Squadron at Wickenby. Just outside Lincoln. When I got to Wickenby they still had Wellingtons but they were scheduled to train on to Lancs. I did three operations with Wellingtons. Then we were stood down for six weeks to transfer. Convert on to Lancasters.
CB: We’ll stop there just for a mo.
[Recording paused]
JL: And I think a couple of squadrons in 5 Group. That’s all there were at that time.
CB: So how did the conversion process operate? Bearing in mind there were no HCUs.
JL: Conversion on to Lancasters? Well we had a couple of pilots seconded to us. [coughs] I’m so sorry. Let me take a cough pill.
CB: Yeah.
[Recording paused]
JL: Between the Frisian Islands and the mainland.
CB: We’re just talking about your ops on the Wellington before you moved to Lancaster. So one was Hamburg.
JL: Not many on 40 Squadron.
CB: No.
JL: Nor at the OTU.
CB: No.
JL: But when I went back to 12 Squadron as I say we still had Wellingtons and I took over the flight commander’s crew as a going concern. We did one mining operation between Terschelling Island and the mainland and one on the approach to St Nazaire. In the estuary. That was a timed run for an island. I think in between was Hamburg. Bombing.
CB: And with mines you couldn’t drop from too great a height because it would shatter the mine so what height did you go?
JL: I think it was five hundred feet and a hundred and sixty miles an hour.
[pause]
CB: And you operated in miles an hour rather than knots did you?
JL: Yes. Incidentally on that run when I went to St Nazaire I decided to go across Brittany. Low down. It was dark but it was clear enough to fly at two or three hundred feet and I saw quite clearly somebody on the ground with a lantern and they swung it around in a circle as we went past.
CB: Exhilarating at low level at night was it?
JL: Well I think I probably thought it was safer than going higher because the guns couldn’t get at you.
CB: So that was a lone sortie. You weren’t going out as a squadron at the same time.
JL: Oh no. They were all lone sorties.
CB: Right.
JL: Except the, except the daylight on Brest.
CB: Right. So after those three then you do the conversion on to the Lancasters. So what was the process there?
JL: We spent quite a little time learning about the Lancaster on the ground and then we had two pilots from 460 Squadron attached to us and they quite quickly converted us. It didn’t take very long. A Lancaster was quite easy to fly and then we took over our crews and spent some time.
CB: So when you moved to Lancasters the four engines all had an engineer. How did that selection work? Did you have all the crew with you?
JL: Well we had, oh a suitable number of mid-upper gunners and engineers arrived and we didn’t choose them. They were just allocated.
CB: So —
JL: And with a full crew then we started doing navigation exercises, a lot of which, much to our concern, were low level formation.
CB: Daylight or night?
JL: Daylight. We didn’t like the idea very much. In the end we didn’t do any daylights.
CB: So what time are we talking about now? 1942.
JL: 1942. Yes.
CB: Yeah.
JL: My first operation on Lancs was a mining operation. To Norway. Haugesundfjord fjord
[pause]
CB: What was the, that was just in the fjord. Just in the entrance was it? Or close to the shipping?
JL: It was more or less parallel to the coast as I remember.
CB: Right.
JL: It wasn’t, it wasn’t very well defended at all. Searchlights came up and a bit of light flak and my gunners responded quickly and, and they put the lights out again.
CB: What sort of height were you doing your mining?
JL: Five hundred feet.
CB: That was also five hundred was it? Right. Ok. And then the rest of the ops. On that tour how many did you do? With 12 squadron?
JL: I think I did twenty two [pause] on Lancasters. Did thirty on Wellingtons. I did the two thousand bomber raids. And then another twenty two [coughs], another twenty two on Lancs which made fifty four I think.
CB: So that normal tour would be thirty. So why did you stop at twenty two?
JL: Oh well I’d done, I did the fifty fourth operation which was to La Spezia in Italy. And the next morning I was called in by the wing commander. And wondering what I’d done wrong, and he said that a new edict had come through that a second tour was now twenty operations. Not twenty. And as I’d done twenty I was finished as of then.
CB: Right. Not thirty. Yeah.
JL: So I finished very suddenly at fifty four.
CB: So what was the next move from there?
JL: Well I wanted to be a test pilot and I thought the best way of starting was getting a posting to a maintenance unit. The wing commander. Wing commander. [pause] Oh dear. Wood. Wing Commander Wood was very very helpful because my first posting after having finished the second tour was back to Wellington 1Cs at Harwell.
CB: Oh right.
JL: And I complained very very loudly about that so WinCo Wood took me off that and made me sort of supernumerary on the squadron. I was talking to new crews and doing odd jobs and then I couldn’t go on forever so they gave me a posting to the Group Gunnery Flight at Binbrook. 1481 flight. I was, they had a Wellington flight and a Martinet flight — the target towers. I was in charge of the Wellington flight and I had a right royal time there. I was my own boss and we did as we liked. But then a posting came through for me to Boscombe Down. A&AEE which I was rather frightened about that. I wasn’t sure if I was up to it. In the end it was fine. Incidentally, the posting to Harwell, another second tour pilot finished shortly after me [pause] Once again his name’s gone. But he took it because his wife lived near Harwell and within about six weeks he was dead. The engine caught fire and the thing folded. What was his name? All these names are in there.
CB: Yeah.
JL: In ten minutes time I can tell you.
CB: Ok. We can pick it up. So now you’re on the way to Boscombe Down.
JL: Yes. I went to Boscombe Down. I was posted to, there was an armament flight and a performance testing flight. I went to the armament flight and the flight commander gave me a ride in a B, oh dear, B25.
CB: Mitchell.
JL: Mitchell. Mitchell. And that was it. I didn’t have any dual. You just got in to an aeroplane and flew it.
CB: Right.
JL: And that’s just, just what happened. And I amassed a total of, I think eventually a hundred and forty four types.
CB: Really. So what formal process did they have for introducing you to test flying?
JL: None at all then. I was just posted in, as I said given a ride in a Mitchell because I’d never been in an American aircraft before. And that was it. I flew them all. Liberators, Fortresses. What was the, was it a B26?
CB: Marauder.
JL: Marauder. That was a bit of a handful.
CB: Was it?
JL: Very high wing loading.
CB: And when you were doing the flying did you have people with you on instruments? Who were monitoring instruments? What was actually happening at Boscombe Down?
JL: Most of my flying was done for armament purposes and we had armament technical officers. Sort of bombing and gunning and we were supervising the tests. We were just drivers really.
CB: Yeah.
JL: My first job, my very first job when I got down there was to drop a four thousand pounder from fifteen hundred feet. Well in the, in Bomber Command the quoted safety height for dropping a four thousand pounder is six thousand feet. Really it was nothing. You felt, well you heard and felt just a little bump. And all this was, they were doing a lot of tests in preparation for what they called second TAF. Second Technical Airforce for the invasion.
CB: So this is army support effectively. So the four thousand pounder’s the cookie which is just a barrel.
JL: Oh yes.
CB: And did you feel there was some danger in doing that? Or did you prove there wasn’t?
JL: Well as I say we’d been told the safety height was six thousand feet and we were sent off to do it at fifteen hundred but I had no problem.
CB: Which was what they wanted to know.
JL: They were measuring it.
CB: Where would you, where was the range where you dropped those?
JL: Lyme Bay. Just off Lyme Regis.
CB: Yeah. What other things were you dropping? Or was there a lot of gunnery involved as well with the fifty seven millimetre.
JL: A bit of both. I had another job with a Mosquito. Oh incidentally. Mosquito. This was typical Boscombe at the time. There was quite a lot of social drinking went on in the evenings and one of the chaps who was, I was very fond of as an armament officer called Shepherd. He was a school master in civil life but he was involved with the rocket. RPs rocket projectiles which was flown by the [pause] oh God.
CB: The Mosquitos and the Beaufighters.
JL: Yes.
CB: Yeah.
JL: Anyway, one night he said, ’Would you like to fly a Mosquito?’ So I said, ‘Yes please.’ And the next day we just walked out to this Mosquito. Let’s say 8RPs. Four under each wing. And I got in. He got in behind me and we went off. That was literally true.
CB: And you’d never flown a two engine.
JL: I’d never flown a Mosquito before.
CB: No.
JL: And I’d certainly never fired rockets but there was quite an art in that because he was telling me what to do all the time. And then another job I had with the Mosquito was — I think they were probably four thousand pound casings filled with [pause] oh dear my brain. Flammable stuff.
CB: Oh yes. Napalm.
JL: What?
CB: Napalm.
JL: Napalm. Yes and this was, this was done we had a range at Crichel Down which, which was, I guess, sometime after the war and low level and so I went off and dropped one of these things at low level. Went back and landed and they phoned up and said, ‘You’re too high.’ So I had another one. I think we did this four times. Eventually I was flying just as low as I possibly dare.
CB: Was this in a Mosquito again?
JL: Yes. And then I saw some cine film of it afterwards but to see this Mosquito scuttling along just above the treetops and a great flame drops the, a great flame went up like a clutching hand way up above the Mosquito. Came down just missing its tail. It was quite frightening to watch and I did that four times.
CB: Blimey. This is using the four thousand pounder casing.
JL: That’s what it looked like. Yes.
CB: When you were doing your four thousand pounder at fifteen hundred feet what plane were you using to drop?
JL: The Lanc.
CB: That was the Lanc. Right. Ok. What other exciting planes? Did you fly single seaters at Boscombe Down?
JL: Oh yes. You could fly anything you wanted. Just go along and say, ‘Please can I have a go at this.’ And you did. There were, well I’d already flown Spitfires. I don’t know where they got that from but I pinched a Spitfire.
CB: Oh did you?
JL: At Binbrook.
CB: You felt it needed exercising.
JL: Yes. You haven’t, you haven’t got on to this one.
CB: No. Go on.
JL: Well —
CB: Right.
JL: 1 Group. They had a, I think he was a New Zealander with a Spitfire. He used to go around all the squadrons doing fighter affiliation. He came. He used to come to Binbrook about once a week I should think. Every time he came I used to say, ‘Give us a go in your Spitfire.’ And eventually he said, ‘Well I’m going to lunch. I know nothing about it.’ So I took that as a have a go.
CB: Have a go.
JL: Yeah. So I went off and did fifteen minutes in this Spitfire and the station commander was Hughie Edwards.
CB: Oh right. [laughs]
JL: Well actually I got on well with him and just a couple of days later, I can’t remember what he said but it was just a very few words just to let me know that he knew about it and having done that I thought well I’ll have another go. So the next time this chap came in I had another go. And then at Kirton Lindsey, not very far away there was a Spitfire OTU. So I went off in — Hughie Edwards used to have a Tiger Moth. He used to let me fly that and I just introduced an Aussie, Aussie wireless op of 460 Squadron. So we went over to Kirton Lindsey and said we wanted to fly Spitfires and they said, ‘Well you’ll have to use Hibaldstow. Our satellite.’ So I went over to Hibaldstow. Now. I can’t for the life of me think how this ever happened but I walked in there and said, ‘Please sir, I have flown a Spitfire before. Can I have another go?’ And then he gave me a Spitfire and I went off for forty five minutes. They’d never seen me before. I’d never seen them before. But this is true. It’s true.
CB: Was this the OTU for the Eagle Squadron?
JL: No. I don’t think so.
CB: No.
JL: I don’t know what it was. It was just a Spitfire OTU.
CB: Yeah. Right. Amazing.
JL: I mean authorising. Who the hell would authorise a flight in a Spitfire from somebody they’d never seen before?
CB: What rank were you at that time?
JL: Flight lieutenant. [pause] Yeah. Lots of things like that happened to me. It’s hard to believe them now.
CB: Yeah.
JL: I guarantee it. I don’t know how you would ever prove it now but [poor old Max Kiddie?] the Aussies. He died. Well most Aussies seem to die young. Most of the ones I knew did.
CB: Yeah. Back at —
JL: Hughie Edwards only made sixty eight.
CB: Yes. Back at Boscombe Down you’ve got all these variety of planes and you’re in the armament flight. So on the single engine planes what are you testing?
JL: Mostly guns. Things like the Avenger I remember, which was quite a nice aeroplane. We didn’t have many single engines. Only for our own test purposes but I used to go around and fly other people’s.
CB: So the Grumman Avenger was — you were doing that for the navy were you?
JL: Yes.
CB: Right.
JL: Yes I remember the Avenger. The Avenger, I think, yes. I can’t remember what. We did anything. And we were all much the same. We were entitled to one day off a week but nobody ever took it. All that happened when there was a non-flying day we all went into Salisbury. Otherwise every day was the same.
CB: Yeah. What other twin-engined aircraft did you fly at Boscombe Down?
JL: I don’t know.
CB: Did you have a Whirlwind for instance?
JL: No. No. Unfortunately not. I liked the look of a Whirlwind. They had the, they had the Wyvern there but it never went into production. It was a sort of larger, uglier looking one.
CB: Wellington.
JL: I’ve made a list somewhere of what I’ve flown.
CB: Ok. So after Boscombe Down. Then what? We’re now getting to what? What time of the war?
JL: Well the Empire Test Pilot School had started and had number one course for only about eight or ten people on that. And they had number two course. That was going on during the time I was there. They were based at Boscombe. I applied for number three course which began on the 13th March 1945 and actually I’d been, I was scheduled to drop the, I can’t remember whether it was the Tallboy or the Grand Slam but the weather had been duff and the 13th of March came up and that was the date of DPDS started so I had to give up that and a chap called Steve Dawson did the dropping of it. But of course 514. Oh my brain. Come on. The Dambusters.
CB: Yeah. 617.
JL: 617. That’s better. They already had them of course.
CB: So talking about Tallboy and Grand Slam. How were you testing those and where?
JL: Dropping them on Ashley Walk in the New Forest.
CB: So did they, they were looking for penetration were they? Or accuracy of flight? What were they looking at?
JL: I can’t remember.
CB: Because they were pinpoint delivery bombs.
JL: Probably the mechanics of dropping it. Yes that would be it. No point in dropping it on Ashley Walk except to make a big hole.
CB: Were they testing the ability of the two bombs to penetrate concrete?
JL: I don’t think so. I think 617 squadron were already doing that. They did the Tirpitz and that thing in France.
CB: Yeah.
JL: Coupole or whatever they called it.
CB: Coupole. Yes. They did a good job on that.
JL: Did a good job of the Tirpitz too.
CB: Yeah. And V3. Tallboys. The guns. The guns in the hillside. So did you, after doing your dropping did they ask you to look at the result of what you’d done?
JL: I can’t remember that. No.
[pause]
JL: I had a wonderful time at Boscombe. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
CB: I bet. So you talked about ETPS the Test Pilot School so what happened there. Number three course.
JL: I was on number three course. Yes. And of course the end of the war came. Chief test pilots round the industry had a habit of coming down and taking lunch with the senior officers and Cyril Feather who was the chief test pilot at Boulton Paul wanted a pilot and somebody suggested me. And I was a bit flattered and thought it would be a good idea so I accepted. And at the end of the course actually we were all being, getting the future sorted out. I had applied for a permanent commission. In the event they didn’t issue permanent commissions immediately. They did what amounted to short service. They didn’t call it short service. Four year contracts.
CB: Yeah. Just Short Service Commissions.
JL: It was a short service commission but they called it something else.
CB: Yeah.
JL: Extended Service Commission
CB: Oh right.
JL: In the event they only issued Extended Service Commissions and I took this offer of Boulton Paul’s but when I got there the chief test pilot engineer was there. He didn’t know I was coming. He was a bit put out understandably. Anyway, we got on alright but there was nothing to do there and I went to ETPS course dinner and we had a number four course I suppose which at this time it was [pause] oh dear [pause] somewhere near Milton Keynes
CB: Oh Cranfield.
JL: Cranfield. Thank you. I’m sorry about this.
CB: That’s alright.
JL: And the Groupie — I can’t think of his name now. A little chap. Said, ‘Are you happy where you are?’ I said, ‘No sir.’ He said, ‘Well, Saunders Roe are looking for somebody. Well, Saunders Roe suited me very well because apart from being on the Isle of Wight my wife lived near Winchester and so I I left Baulton Paul and went to Saunders Roe and [cough] oh dear. I don’t know why my throat’s doing this.
CB: Do you want a break? We’ll just stop for a mo?
[Recording paused]
CB: Now, one thing I didn’t ask you about the Boscombe Down range was you were actually testing American aircraft as well as British.
JL: Oh yes.
CB: One of the night fighters, American night fighters was called Black Widow.
JL: Yes. Flew that.
CB: What was that like?
JL: It was not a very pleasant aircraft to fly really. I think it had remote controlled guns for even firing. It was alright but not a, not a very brilliant aircraft. Yes. The P51.
[pause]
CB: Right. Thank you. So we’re now at Saunders Roe. So what was the task there?
JL: Well they didn’t have a proper pilot there but chief designers [unclear] had been at the fleet air arm. He was doing a little bit. There were, at the time they were building Sea Otters and refurbishing Walruses, the jet flying boat fighter was on the docks. The SRA1. And in the distance was the Princess.
CB: Right.
JL: And so I just joined in flying the Walruses and the Sea Otters and then they, they sent me on a Sunderland conversion course to Pembroke Dock which was very nice. So I had the full OTU course on the Sunderland. Now what had happened at Saunders Roe was that Short Brothers — where did they used to be? On the Thames.
CB: At Chatham. Rochester.
JL: Rochester. Stafford Cripps, who was a trade minister or something, nationalised Short’s and sent them to Belfast. They never did like that including the chairman Sir Arthur Gouge. So he carried these down to Saunders Roe and he was, he was followed by a whole lot of other people including a general manager, Browning and a whole lot and they just didn’t want to be at Belfast. And whilst I was away at Pembroke Dock I got a letter from the managing director [laughs] Captain Clark saying that Geoffrey Tyson would be joining the company as chief test pilot. Well he was one of the Short’s. Well he was chief test pilot at Short’s. I thought well that’s fair enough. He knows his stuff. I don’t. And so I wrote back and said, “Yes, that’s fine by me sir.” And when I got back I met Geoffrey. He was the most peculiar chap. He wasn’t the least interested in me, my background. He didn’t want to see my logbooks. Nothing. He knew nothing about me. And I found it very hard to get on with him. He hadn’t any sense of humour, he didn’t drink, he didn’t smoke. But we staggered along and he did the first few flights on the SRA1 and then he let me have a go. Well then, well we, we didn’t get on at all. Face it. We shared the same birthday but he was twelve years older than me.
CB: Right.
JL: And —
CB: In flying boat terms he was a cold fish.
JL: Then he, he told me one day that John Booth, who was another Short pilot was going to join as his number two so obviously that was my invitation to leave. So I rang up Eric Franklin at Armstrong Whitworth and got a job back there straight away and that was, that was the end of the things. I flew the SRA1 at Farnborough along with several other do’s.
CB: Just to put this —
JL: He was a most peculiar fellow.
CB: To put this into a context if I may. The SRA1 was the first jet powered Flying Boat.
JL: Yes.
CB: So what was the concept and what was it like?
JL: I think the idea was it would be handy in the Pacific area where they wouldn’t have to have a runway. It was quite a powerful machine with four twenty millimetre cannon.
CB: It was a fighter.
JL: It was a fighter. Yes. And although it was a bit bulky for a fighter it was quite lively but of course the Pacific war ended and there was no more call for it. Three were completed and two were crashed. One by Winkle Brown and one by a [Pete Major?] at Felixstowe. Another one is at Southampton.
CB: So you did the course on the Sunderland at Pembroke. That set you up.
JL: Pembroke Dock.
CB: Pembroke dock. That set you up in anticipation of flying the SRA1 did it? Was that the idea?
JL: Yes. That was the Flying Boats in general.
CB: And you were flying the Walruses and the Otters
JL: Yes. The Walruses and the Sea Otter you could taxi on the slipway.
CB: Yeah.
JL: The others needed mooring.
CB: So, what, how did it feel flying a jet flying boat? Because compared with flying a piston engine it was quite different.
JL: Well I had flown jets before. I flew the Vampire and the Meteor.
CB: At Boscombe Down.
JL: Yeah. [pause] I don’t know. Didn’t feel particularly different.
CB: Did you have to have particularly unusual handling techniques because of being a jet engine and getting water in it?
JL: Well they had designed in an extended snout but it was never necessary. It was never used because the spray was always well clear of the intake. I’ve got to have another.
CB: That’s alright.
[Recording pause]
JL: At that time the Isle of Wight was bristling with retired naval captains.
CB: Oh.
JL: Actually I thought he was one of those.
CB: Right.
JL: It turned out to be a captain in the Royal Flying Corps and equivalent of a flight lieutenant.
CB: But he called himself Captain Clark.
JL: Oh he was very fussy about the captain bit.
CB: Yeah. How interesting. What was he like as a personality? As the chairman.
JL: He was a bit peculiar. He had very little technical knowledge. How he came to be managing director I don’t know.
CB: Of an aviation company.
JL: Finance I suppose. But he was a bit of an oddball.
CB: Now after the Saunders Roe situation changing you went back to Armstrong Whitworth.
JL: Yes.
CB: So how did that come about? You just made direct contact or how did it work?
JL: Well when Geoffrey told me John Booth was joining as his number two that was obviously my cue to go so I immediately phoned Eric Franklin who — he’d been an apprentice with me at Armstrong Whitworth and he was then chief test pilot and he offered me a job straight away. So I was on my way within a very few days.
CB: So what was Armstrong Whitworth working on then? We’re talking about 1946 now are we?
JL: ‘49
CB: ‘49. Right.
JL: When I, when went back there the bread and butter was the production of Mark iv Meteors which became Mark viii Meteors. Simultaneously we had the Apollo which was a heap of rubbish.
CB: An airliner.
JL: Yes.
CB: An imitation air liner.
JL: It was supposed to be in competition with the Vickers Viscount. That was because it had to have Armstrong Siddeley engines, which were rubbish so it was never made anywhere. They were very [pause] well, a child of ten could have designed it.
CB: Oh.
JL: We had the 52. The 52 glider.
CB: So how, the AW52 was a flying wing.
JL: Yes.
CB: So could you just explain what the concept there was and the use of the glider first?
JL: Well, one of the purposes of it was to try to develop laminar flow over the wing.
CB: Right.
JL: But it wasn’t very successful because it’s impossible to keep the wind surface clear of squashed flies and things but actually it was a very experimental aircraft. I suppose they had ideas of building a massive passenger aircraft in that form but in this case it was just a two seater but they, it only had twenty six degrees of sweepback which was not nearly enough. And on controls they had several choices. What they chose was an elavon — a combined elevator and aileron. They could have split them and had separate ailerons and elevators or power controls were coming along although they hadn’t reached it yet. Well they wrongly decided on the elavons which meant that fore and aft was a very short lever balance, was very vert sensitive fore and aft, very very heavy laterally and they had a compromise and the compromise was through a spring tab. Are you familiar with a spring tab?
CB: Yeah.
JL: On a spring tab the spring had to be very very weak so that your controls are connected to a very floppy spring and my problem was exceeding the [pause] exploring the higher speed range before flutter set in. I was completely disorientated and I believe that I would have passed out very quickly so instead of that I pulled the blind down. I didn’t do anything properly in the ejection. You were supposed to put your heels on the footrest. I didn’t do that. I just didn’t do it. That’s all. And it had spectacle controls. Somehow or other my knees missed that. They were bruised but otherwise, otherwise ok. So once again I was very very very lucky.
CB: What height were you flying?
JL: About three thousand feet.
CB: And what speed?
JL: Three hundred. About three hundred and fifty. The limiting speed had just been increased and that’s what I was doing.
CB: So it’s the —
JL: Exploring that.
CB: Right. And theoretically what was the maximum speed? Fairly low was it?
JL: Oh I expect so. Yes. Yes not much performance testing was done. It was all sort of handling. Trying to get the controls right.
CB: So you’re at three thousand. Three thousand feet. What sort of speed were you actually flying at at that moment?
JL: Well the last I remember was about three fifty.
CB: It was at three fifty. Right.
JL: We were still at miles an hour.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
JL: And —
CB: The parachute automatically deployed.
JL: No. No.
CB: You had to do it.
JL: I had to do the whole thing.
CB: Yeah.
JL: I had to release the Sutton harness and pull the rip cord.
CB: Right.
JL: I made a very bad landing and hurt my shoulder a bit. Still hurts.
CB: Where? Where did this take place?
JL: A place called little Long Itchington.
CB: I know it. Yes.
JL: Do you know it? South of Coventry.
CB: Yes. Good pub there.
JL: Yes. I’ve been there.
CB: The Blue Light.
JL: The Blue Light.
CB: Yes.
JL: Used to kept by Wing Commander Sandy Powell.
CB: Oh.
JL: Who had been at Boscombe Down. In charge of C flight.
CB: And he he became a Comet test pilot and that blew his mind.
JL: Hmmn?
CB: He had been a Comet test pilot as well hadn’t he?
JL: Sandy?
CB: Yeah.
JL: Well he’d flown all sorts of things.
CB: Yeah. Right. So that’s where you came down. And the plane came down somewhere. Where?
JL: About two miles further on.
CB: Yeah. What? How did you start off with the gliders? The Glider. How did that handle? You were towed up by something and then —
JL: [laughs]. Not exactly. They had, they had a Whitley to tow it off first of all but when I got there they’d just been allocated a Lancaster. That Whitley was the last off the production line and they took it away and broke it up. There was no Whitley any more. But we had a Lancaster which was much better getting the glider up to a decent height. Used to take it up and then do tests on the way down.
CB: So how manoeuvrable was the glider?
JL: Well it was much better. It was two thirds the size of a big one and it was not metal? It was plywood construction which made it much more rigid and the controls were much better. Still a bit odd.
CB: And what sort of test envelope would you be exploring in that?
JL: Oh I don’t know. I don’t remember.
CB: Then you moved to the AW52.
JL: Yes. I only did two and a half flights in the AW52.
CB: Right.
JL: And the other one was grounded. Then they did some vibration tests with it at very slow speeds. When they sent it to Farnborough where it was regarded as a curiosity. I think they tried to resurrect the laminar flow test but it was no good and it finished up as a curiosity and was eventually broken up.
CB: What was the engine power on that? Was it twin engine?
JL: Yes. Two Nenes. Yes. One had two Nenes. One had two Derwents.
CB: Right. So this was a government contract.
JL: Yes.
CB: To examine laminar flows.
JL: A research. A government supported.
CB: So after that you get out. You’re the first person to use an ejector seat in serious operation.
JL: Yes. The Germans had got on of course during the war. They weren’t as good of course. I think they were operated by compressed air. But I think there were a quite a lot of German ejections.
CB: Were there?
JL: And I was the first of the allied side shall we say.
CB: In peacetime. So you injured your shoulder. What did you do after that?
JL: I was off flying for about a month and then I went to central, CME Central Medical Establishment in London and they gave me a going over and sent me home with a little piece of paper which said, “Fits, fits civilian MOS pilot but not to be exposed to the hazards of the Martin-Baker ejection seat.” And so shrieks of laughter at that. Still are. [laughs]
CB: An interesting point though in practical terms the seat is operated by a cartridge. What was the affect? The seat is operated by an explosive cartridge so what did the ejection itself do to your spine?
JL: Well I had already gone up to [Denham?] and got on the test rig and following that I had a little bit of pain in my tail. I mentioned this to my GP and explained what had happened. He said, ‘Well, I expect you bruised it a bit.’ But the pain didn’t go away. It wasn’t constant and so I ignored it. Then when I ejected they x-rayed me and they said that I’d suffered a compression fracture of the first and second vertebrae and what’s more this was the second time this has happened. So the same thing happened both times.
CB: Right.
JL: I think it’s quite common actually.
CB: Yes. It’s just the modern seats are rocket and they still have a sharp acceleration don’t they?
JL: Yes.
CB: So, ok. What did you do next then? Did you return to flying?
JL: Oh yes. I went to Armstrong Whitworth and started again. And well we went through a lot of productions the Sea Hawk, the Hunter 2 and 5, Hunter 7. We had [pause] God. Come on brain. Javelin.
CB: Oh yes. ‘Cause they were building all of these. Some contractors were they?
JL: Yes. I mean we took over. We took over the Sea Hawk complete. Design and everything.
CB: Oh right.
JL: But the others were just sub-contracts. The Hunter 2 and the 5 had Sapphire engines. We built all those.
CB: How long did all that go on?
JL: Well the Argosy came along 1959. And I participated in that for a while which wasn’t a very good aircraft at all. Didn’t have enough range for the RAF to start with. But Glosters closed down. Who else closed down? Avro. Avro’s closed down [pause] No they didn’t. Glosters closed down. Somebody else closed down and the Hawker Siddeley Group was sort of imploding rapidly and so I thought it time to go rather than just sit about and wait to be picked to be sacked. And so I went to the managing director and said I’d be happy to leave and that I had a suggestion that they see me through the necessary, considerable training to obtain an airline transport pilot’s licence and they happily agreed to that. They paid all my expenses. In all for about three months. I got that licence and they gave me a year’s salary and said thank you very much. And unfortunately I was, met another chap who’d got into crop spraying in Africa. Made a lot of money. And he talked me into joining him in the business but unfortunately he had a wife too many and he bought a house out of the business and things were going very wrong and I lost a lot of money and pulled out. And I needed a job and there was a job down here at Shoreham regional air maps. Doing air survey photography and map making. So I took that job to give me, keep me sane while I looked around for an airline job but the only airline job that came my way was flying a Dakota to Dusseldorf at night with the papers. I didn’t fancy that at all. I was well placed because the crewing manager at British United was a chap who’d been at Boscombe Down, Charles Moss and he was looking out for me. And nothing came along. This was in 1964. So I took this job and I got engrossed in the air survey business anyway and passed the point of no return age wise I think and I stayed there until I was sixty five.
CB: So looking back on your RAF career what was the most memorable point, would you say, of your activities?
JL: I think my first tour with that motley crew I had.
CB: In what way?
JL: Well we went everywhere together. Did everything together.
CB: Yeah.
JL: It was rather different with the second tour. We didn’t sort of mix socially so much.
CB: Didn’t you?
JL: Well I had good happy times but —
CB: When were you commissioned? In the first tour.
JL: In my first tour. Yeah. August 1941.
CB: Right.
JL: This was another little story. I was down in the dispersal one day and an airman came down and said, ‘Here. You’ve got to fill this in.’ [laughs] And it was an application form for a commission. So I thought I’d better fill it in which I did and I had to go to London for an interview and my crew, I went down by train late at night. My crew duly saw my off via the George Hotel and I was in a pretty fair state when I got on the train. Got to London in the blackouts. There was an air raid warning on. I had nowhere to go. I eventually found a dim light which was the Church Army or Salvation Army or something. A little hostel. So I went in there and they gave me a bed for the night. In the morning I never saw the proper toilet facilities. I just got, I just got dressed. I had a terrible hangover and went for my interview. I think it was actually Adastral House in Kingsway. Then went back to the squadron and carried on. And then we went on leave and I still had my car. If you had a car and you went on leave you had petrol coupons for the place you were going so obviously the best thing is to have a destination as far away as possible to get the most petrol. So I had the address of a friend in Shrewsbury and I just gave that as my address whilst on leave. Whilst I was on leave they sent a telegram to this address saying commission granted and never to return as pilot officer so I turned up not knowing a thing about this so I had to rush into Cambridge and get myself fitted for a uniform and rushed in again to put it on and went in as a sergeant and came back as a pilot officer. And my crew all came with me as usual and they marched in front demanding that everybody saluted me. [laughs]
CB: Sounds like a riot.
JL: Yeah.
CB: Didn’t work the same way with the Lancaster crew. Is that because you had two people join later?
JL: Well I had a ready-made crew. The commanding officer had gone off sick. He needed some surgery and I took over his crew which was a Wellington crew. And the navigator was a ex-Exeter prison jailer and he had, he had funny ideas. He used to take a .38 revolver with him on ops. Yeah. The wireless operator was, came from Dublin and surprisingly he was a teetotal. The original wireless op and the rear gunner both changed quite quickly having finished whatever they were on and so I had a sort of a scratch crew to start with and when we changed we changed on to Lancs we had two new members and we were all on happy good terms but we didn’t sort of go down the the pub as a gang as we did on the first tour.
CB: How many other officers in your crew? In that case. On the Lancasters.
JL: There were no officers except me in the first crew. The second crew [pause] I had two changes of navigator and they were both commissioned. The rear gunner in both cases both were commissioned. Just in the last legs I had a commissioned wireless op. A Canadian. Gordon Fisher. The rest were all sergeants.
CB: You had an unusually broad experience because you started early and did various other things. To what extent did you come across LMF?
JL: On 40 Squadron we had a chap. I can tell you his name can I?
CB: Ahum.
JL: [Hesketh?]
CB: Yeah.
JL: And all sorts of things kept going wrong with him. He did a lot of second pilot trips. I had my [unclear] [serves me right?] one time prior to going out on ops he retracted the undercarriage. Almost anything to stop him and he was eventually flying second pilot with the flight commander and that aircraft was seen circling on a point on the East Anglian coast well north off the point where we were supposed to stage through and it spun in and crashed and they were all killed including the flight commander. Creegan was it? And this chap Hesketh. You can’t help but think that Hesketh had something to do with that but why they were, they were about fifty miles north of where they should have been. The other one I only know by hearsay which was 12 Squadron. A crew ditched in the North Sea. The dinghy was upside down and they had to sit on the upturned dinghy for three days and they were rescued and of course they were hospital cases. Apparently for days afterwards when they squeezed [the flesh?] water came out. The wireless op I believe, this was all hearsay Flight Sergeant Rose and he was put back on ops far too soon. He wasn’t ready for it and he was whisked off. Presumably pronounced LMF. Which was very very very unkind. My experience of the RAF was that they were always very kind and compassionate to me.
CB: Well.
JL: Particularly Wing Commander Wood.
CB: Jo thank you very much indeed for a fascinating interview.
JL: I don’t think it was very good.
[Recording paused]
JL: One incident at 12 Squadron again. Lancs. We were right over the top of Hamburg a Junkers 88 went. We heard his engines.
CB: Did you?
JL: Straight over the top of us. Missed us by about ten feet I think.
CB: In the dark.
JL: In the dark.
CB: Yeah.
JL: Well in the dark but you could see quite a lot.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Quite a shock.
JL: Yes [laughs] if he’s close enough to hear the engines he’s too bloody near.
CB: Yeah. And you thanked your lucky stars.
JL: I had another one. I had a very good Australian navigator on 12 Squadron. Anyway, he had to miss an op for some reason or other and we were given a Canadian. A chap called Abrahamson. I’d never sort of met him till we got in the aircraft and the target was Essen. And we went off and by the time we got to the Dutch coast he wasn’t making any sense at all but fortunately the PFF were putting down markers at a couple of turning points and the night was absolutely gin clear. You could see everything. You could see the coast and rivers and I didn’t want to take issue with this Mr Abrahamson so I just carried on and we duly, I made the markers that PFF had put down. You couldn’t miss the target because they were marking that as well. Some duly did deliver the bombs and just flew home. Didn’t need any help flying home. We could see everything and of course when we got back we had to report everything to the squadron navigation officer. Mr Abrahamson was never seen again. By the time we got up in the morning he wasn’t there.
CB: Was he —
JL: Off the station. Where he went? Don’t know.
CB: Did you put that down to stress or just as an incompetent navigator?
JL: I’ve no idea. I’ve no idea. I didn’t know the chap. I hadn’t spoken to him.
CB: Right. Thank you.
[Recording paused]
CB: Wife died.
JL: Well [unclear]
CB: Right.
JL: Very sad. That’s right. We had a legal separation and she wanted to marry again so we did the divorce and then she died 1977.
CB: Right.
JL: I remarried and this wife went a bit berserk. I think she was almost certainly she was got onto drugs. She had her own car. Used to disappear into Brighton for days but she had her father who was a mouse living there and looked after my daughter Jenny and eventually she, well I divorced her and the next thing I knew she’d developed cirrhosis of the liver.
CB: Oh.
JL: And due to her very very peculiar behaviour she hadn’t any friends left at all. She was a very very sad case and she committed suicide.
CB: Right.
JL: In 1964. I’d just retired.
CB: A big strain.
JL: I was left with a daughter sixteen. Just doing her O Levels.
CB: Oh were you really.
JL: Fortunately she’s turned out absolute trumps.
WT: Good. Good.
CB: Excellent.
JL: And the son is fine too. So I have a son of seventy and a daughter forty nine and a loving and loyal family.
CB: Is Jenny married?
JL: She should be.
CB: Oh.
JL: I said, ‘Why don’t you get married?’ ‘What’s the point?’
CB: Oh right.
JL: One of those.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Jo Lancaster. Two
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-03-08
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALancasterJO170308
PLancasterJO1501
Conforms To
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Jo Lancaster grew up in Cumbria and joined the Air Force as soon as he was able. After training as a pilot he flew a tour of operations with 40 Squadron from RAF Alconbury. He then became an instructor before his second tour flying Lancasters with 12 Squadron from RAF Wickenby. He then became a test pilot at RAF Boscombe Down. He continued to be a test pilot after the war and was the first person to eject from an aircraft in danger using a Martin-Baker ejector seat. In all he flew a total of more than 144 aircraft types.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Coventry
France--Brest
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Hamburg
Scotland--Lossiemouth
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Warwickshire
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1941
1942
1945
Format
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02:00:18 audio recording
12 Squadron
150 Squadron
20 OTU
22 OTU
40 Squadron
aircrew
B-25
B-26
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
crewing up
Grand Slam
Lancaster
Me 109
Me 110
Meteor
mine laying
Mosquito
Operational Training Unit
pilot
RAF Alconbury
RAF Boscombe Down
RAF Castle Donington
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Wickenby
RAF Wyton
recruitment
Spitfire
Tallboy
training
Walrus
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/615/8884/PNeechPRR1601.2.jpg
b18dcb33ac05d88b974e6778658b17de
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/615/8884/ANeechPRR161013.2.mp3
b4f50aafc08ff7c8b4aba0c7ac356bbc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Neech, Peter Rowland Ruthven
P R R Neech
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Neech, PRR
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Peter Neech (b.1925, 1851518 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a with 75 and 98 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-13
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JH: My name is Judy Hodgson and I’m interviewing Peter Neech today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s digital archive. We’re at Mr Neech’s home and it is the 13th of October 2016. Thank you, Peter for agreeing to talk to me today. Peter can you tell me when and where you were born?
PN: Yes, I was born in London, West Hampstead actually on the 7th of January 1925. And that’s quite a long time ago. [laughs]
JH: That’s right. And what about your family and your early years sort of thing?
PN: Yes, well I had a mother and father there you see. My father was in the first world war and he was trained as a marine engineer and then like all young fellows he decided that he would far rather be a dispatch rider and got on a motor bike. He was flying about the trenches, all over that kind of thing. That was his - although he was trained as a marine engineer he did – he’d rather would do the motor bike bit. So that’s what he did and he came through the war alright. Yes, he did alright. Now –
JH: Where?
PN: Going forward to my years, I suppose if I were to – I think about 1940. I was working in a jeweller’s shop in Hammersmith. And the manager’s son came in one day and he said ‘Oh,’ he said ‘I’ve done it now’ he said ‘I’ve really gone and done it. I’ve joined the Air Training Corps’ or the Air Defence Cadet Corps as it was then. He said ‘I’m really in it’. I heard that and thought I’m going to join that too. So, I promptly looked around near home and I joined the Air Training Corps as it was then as well. And I served in that for two or three years until 1943. And on my birthday in 1943, 7th of January, I went along and I joined the air force. I was eighteen and I joined the air force then. And I was called up some six or seven months later. And did my training in various places, ITW, Initial Training Wings and then finally –
JH: Where was that, Initial Training Wing, where was that?
PN: Initial Training, believe it or not it was at St John’s Wood. It wasn’t the Initial Training Wing there it was, oh what was the name of the place? It was in St John’s Wood in the various flats that were there, luxurious flats that were there. And they took great precautions to see they didn’t get mucked up. At a reception centre, aircrew reception centre, that’s what it was called. And we were there for two or three weeks something like that, got uniform and things of that sort. And then we were moved then to a reception centre, where was it called? Oh, I think it was at – well we went onto various places like beginning to train, oh yes at Bridgnorth down in Shropshire. And there we started, started, although we didn’t fly down there we did do some training, aircrew training down there. And that was three or four weeks down there. It was rather, it was rather strange. We didn’t have sheets to sleep in we just had blankets and I got well and truly bitten by little buggy wugs. And had to go, I went to sick quarters to get treated for this. And he made sure that I was lathered in a thick coating of sulphur ointment and uniform on top of that. Most uncomfortable. [emphatic] I was straight out of there went home, I was not too far from home, went home, took, changed my uniform for my best uniform and the rest went in the laundry. And there they stayed until they got cleared of all the sulphur, sulphur ointment. I never went back near them again. [laughs] And from Bridgnorth I then went on a very long train journey, Bridgnorth down in Shropshire, right up to just outside of Inverness. Which was a long time. And that was at, the place was called Dalcross. And it was an Initial Gunnery School. And it took us quite – it was a troop train and as such we didn’t get changed – we didn’t change trains at all. We stayed on that one train and I thought ‘Right monkey, I’ll get some sleep on here’. And I made sure I got up into the luggage rack and had a good old sleep for most of the time. [laughs] Anyway, we arrived at Dalcross railway station and there the, there was a corporal there to shepherd us up into the local station, RAF station at Dalcross. No er, all just any kind of marching, no smartness at all there, just a shambles going into that station. But that was alright. Some six weeks later we were marched down there very much in line and very much drilled, having been taught how to drill properly. And indeed, how to deal with guns. And it was very nice we passed out there as sergeants. And the local WAAF’s on the station were very kind they sewed, carefully sewed, our stripes and our brevets on our uniforms. That was very kind, we would have made a right old mess of it. But they did it and they did it kindly for us. And that corporal who had marched us carefully up to the station, we marched him round the parade ground. He was a corporal, we were sergeants and we chased him round the parade ground at a very good march. And then we marched him down to the railway station too when we went away. And so we went back to our next station which was in, er not Andover, not very far from London in fact I went to London. I was able to go home for a day or so because we were going there. And going back I went from Bakers Street to this station where this – it was, what was it? An ITW, no not ITW. Was a training station anyway onto Wellington aircraft. And it wasn’t a very long railway journey and I met a very good friend on that journey, Pat Butler. And he – I’ve got a picture of him there somewhere. He was a very good – we got on great friends, we became great friends. He went onto the same squadron as me. We went onto the Initial Training Wings and various training wings and we went onto the same squadron together. And the third trip that we did was laying sea mines in Kiel Canal. And we got a bit damaged and had to retire. We got one engine shot out and this engine was the one that supplied power to the gun turrets. We turned – we dropped our mines, laid our mines, but we then moved away and went back home.
JH: What aeroplanes were you flying?
PN: There we were flying Stirlings.
JH: Right.
PN: Yes, we were flying Stirlings there and we went back, back to our station at Westcott. Westcott, that’s what it was called. Anyway, Pat Butler I’m afraid he, a fighter ‘plane caught them and shot them down and they were all killed. Great pity only a third operation. Um, so I was very sad to see that. Quite funny we were in the same barrack block. In the same Nissen hut it was actually together. He was in one corner. And they had a firm called, air force people, called the Committee of Adjustments, yeah. And these, this Committee of Adjustments whenever anyone was shot down or killed or anything like that they used to come round and collect up all their kit and put it into stores. They collected up his kit and mine too! And it took me several days to get my uniforms back again because I was sleeping in the corner near enough to his bed, so they collected up his stuff and mine too. [laughs] Well, I was very cross with them for that but anyway I got the stuff back eventually. And from there we went onto Stradishall. Yes, now come to think of it the aircraft that we had been flying in until then were Wellington aircraft, and not Stirlings. Was about to say we weren’t on Stirlings until we went to Stradishall. When we went to Stradishall that was when we went onto the Stirlings, the heavy bombers, four engined. And that was the time when I’d got somewhere to go, I got a mid-upper gun turret and that was alright. On the Wellingtons of course there was no mid-upper gun turret.
JH: So what position were you on a Wellington?
PN: Pardon?
JH: Where did you fit into a Wellington?
PN: In the middle of the fuselage. Nowhere much to go except to look out of the bits, the astra dome, things like that, just to keep myself amused. But there we are, as I say we went onto eventually onto the squadrons and they were flying Stirlings then and it was on Stirlings that Pat Butler got killed. It was a shame, only on his third operation. I went onto do – I did a complete tour there and somehow or another they managed to – a tour of operations was thirty operations. Somehow or another they managed to craftily get me on and I did thirty-one. I don’t know I managed, they managed to do that but they did. And they asked me, we’d just come back from a bombing raid and while I was coming away from the aircraft they asked me if I’d like to continue on that same squadron. And after I’d done an eight hour bombing mission I told them where to – what I thought of them. And I did, I got posted away. [chuckles] So I went to another place then and then I went onto North American Mitchells which was a twin engined bomber. There I think that’ll keep you busy for a while, I’ll give you some more a little later on. Yes, that’s how we did it and it was on those five that we were doing on the Stirlings, the third one was when Pat Butler was shot down and he, and all his crew, were killed. And that was a shame.
JH: And after those five you went on?
PN: And after those five I went onto Lancasters and we did converting onto Lancasters at Feltwell and did it all in one day. Day and night the conversion onto the Lancasters. Then we came back and we carried on our tour. But I’d done about five or six on the Lancasters when we were flying along one evening when an aircraft flying fairly close to us just blew up. He just blew up without any warning at all and rocketed us all over the sky. We went up topsy-turvy all over the sky. And eventually my skipper, he was a very good skipper, managed to put it into a bit of a dive. And from that dive he could pull us out. And he pulled us out at ten thousand feet. So, we had lost ten thousand feet and he pulled us out and climbed back up to the twenty thousand which was our normal operating height. And then we went on and did our, that particular bombing mission. Yes, I don’t know –
JH: Did you ever know who, which ‘plane it was that blew up? Did you ever know who they were?
PN: No I didn’t, no.
JH: No. Or why?
PN: No, well I suppose they got hit by anti-aircraft fire. And probably if it hit the bomb, bomb loads, it would blow up.
JH: Yes.
PN: Yeah, yes, it was er – it really sent us all over the sky. But as I say my skipper was a very good skipper and he eventually put it into a low dive and from that dive he could pull us out. He could work it out, and we then climbed back up to our normal height again, operating height again. But after that I went to – when we’d landed, a day or two later I thought ‘I must have some wax in my ears I think, I’ll go and get them syringed out at the medical centre.’ I hadn’t got wax in my ears, no. I’d got cracked eardrums. And the doctor – I went just to get the wax out of them. But he said ‘Oh you’ve got cracked eardrums.’ And I spent two weeks or more in hospital, Ely Hospital, and then some time in a local health centre not very far from Ely Hospital. I can’t remember their name now but it was an old English country house sort of thing. Used – it had been taken over by the RAF and people we used to recover from various injuries there. And I was there for two or three weeks and then went back. But of course my crew carried on their time and at the end of that tour they carried on and they’d finished their tour some five odd trips before me. And I had to finish my tour with one or two other people, other skippers. And that was a bit of a nuisance. Because my crew, my original crew, then went on to rest period and I had to carry on flying. That’s, I suppose that’s how I got my, how I did the thirty-one operations instead of the thirty because of a bit of a mix up on the number.
JH: And then you had leave after?
PN: Then I had some leave yes.
JH: What did you do?
PN: I didn’t have much leave. About two or three weeks or something like that. End of tour leave. And then I went back again and eventually, oh I did instructing for a while. I went up funnily enough back up to Dalcross as a flying instructor. And you usually did six months as a flying instructor. I made sure that I counted the – I went there at the end of a particular month and I counted that whole month. And I, and there’s the beginning of another month just after Christmas. I counted that as a whole month so in fact I did four months rest period but it counted as six. And then I went back on flying again and I went back onto 98 Squadron which was a North American Mitchell squadron.
JH: Where was that based?
PN: They were based initially in Norfolk and then we went across to France, just outside of Brussels and then up into Germany. Up to a station in Germany near Osnabruck, there, Osnabruck, near Osnabruck. And it was then soon after that that the war terminated.
JH: So, did you fly with any of your, you know, former mates from the other crews, did you fly with them again?
PN: No, I didn’t see – but on the North American Mitchells I did a further seventeen bombing missions. So that made a total around about forty, forty-eight bombing missions I did altogether. Which was quite a lot. And on one of them going to a place called Bremen we were quite near a flak explosion, quite near to us. And when we got back I hadn’t, fortunately hadn’t used my guns on that particular operation. When we got back the armourer came up to me and he said ‘Would you like to keep this souvenir?’ and it was one of the cases, one of the round cases which was fed up by a belt quite near to me and it had got a nice little hole in it. And he said ‘We’ve taken the explosives out,’ he said ‘You’re lucky it didn’t explode’ because the metal, the flak that hit it was white hot and melted. He showed me the piece of flak and it had brass on one side melted onto it and the iron of the flak shell on the other side. And so it had melted that case, that brass case of the ammunition onto the flak and there – so it must have been very, very hot indeed. I was lucky it came to me as near to me, and I was lucky I didn’t get a little bit closer to that I’m glad to say. And the, as I say the armourer came to me later and said ‘Would you like this case?’ with the flak inside it. It was a big hole, I’ve got it still and he gave it to me. Unfortunately, a number of years later my, one of my sons looked at that shell case and the little bit of flak which was inside it rattled and he thought ‘That’s all very interesting’ and the little bit of metal, the flak, he looked at that and then put it in the ashtray and it got thrown out. I didn’t know for a month or so later that it had been thrown out. And it is a real piece of the interest story of that but it’s a pity, but it was gone. I searched for it but I couldn’t find it. Well, lost that. I’ve got the case, the shell case still but I’ve lost the piece of flak that would fill it which was a shame.
JH: Of all the aircraft that you actually flew in did you have a preference for any of the aircraft that you were in?
PN: Did I?
JH: Did you prefer one aircraft to another, did you like?
PN: Oh well I would have preferred the Lancaster.
JH: Ah.
PN: Yes, the Lancaster. The Stirling was quite good. It was bigger in fact I think, bit bigger than the Lancaster and we had some quite interesting do’s in them I must agree. Mainly going to Kiel and places like that. And we went down one time to where was it? Went to the South of France on a bombing mission laying sea mines. Yes, I’d have to look in my logbook and see where we went to on those places.
JH: You had some –
PN: Coming back from that place, La Rochelle, La Rochelle. It was a tributary of a river there and we laid our sea mines in there and we came back, and we by a little bit of a mistake I must agree, we came a little bit close to the point of Brest. The part of France Brest. And it was in German hands and they opened up all kinds of fire against us so we promptly put our guns over the side and fired back at them. They shut up quick. They shut – the firing immediately stopped and we went a little bit further out to sea. And came back home that way. But they, it’s funny to see that they fired several shots at us, going out as we came past Brest, and the moment we started firing back at them they packed up at once, and went quiet, very quiet.
JH: You must have had quite, quite a few near misses?
PN: Um [emphatic] yes.
JH: Yes.
PN: Oh yes.
JH: Do you remember any others in particular, do you remember?
PN: Now did I? Yes. One of the last ones. Well of course, I told you about that one. He was going, a friend of mine who wrote the poetry he was going to a place called Darmstadt. And that was fairly near to where I was going at – it’s in my logbook too – down by the South, the South of France. I’ll look it up in my logbook soon and tell you what it was. And we got quite a bit of a hammering there too. Um, I forget the – of course it’s seventy odd years ago you see, it is a long time to remember these things. I will look it up, I’ll tell you later on.
JH: So really it must have been quite difficult?
PN: Yes.
JH: Having to go back up all the time?
PN: Yes, it was but I didn’t particularly bother about it, it was part of the job that I was doing. But we did have fighters come after us a number of times and we used to employ an evasion method called a corkscrew. And a corkscrew, we used to fly into the direction of the fighter and lose about a thousand foot. And then we’d roll over to the other side and drop another thousand foot. And then we’d climb a thousand foot, and roll and climb another thousand foot. And by that time that fighter was long gone. So, our corkscrew did us the world of good. So, we didn’t have to bother too much with corkscrews a lot. That was our normal tactic for getting out of fighter, fighter attacks.
JH: Could all ‘planes do that are was it only?
PN: Oh yes.
JH: All of them, it was standard?
PN: It was a known tactic. It was a known tactic that aircraft could go into a corkscrew, yeah.
JH: What is your experience really of being in the mid-upper turret, you know what was that like to be in that particular position?
PN: Yes, it was quite cold. It was – we used to go there and the outside – there was only a thin – the turret had perspex, a perspex cupola and that was only very thin that perspex. And outside was a temperature of minus forty, something like that, it was quite cold. But we went – while I was doing normal, not an evasion tactic, but we did what we called dinghy drill. Learning how to get into a dinghy quickly if we were shot down over the sea. And to do that we went to a local swimming pool at Newmarket. And while there you dressed up in flying clothing, very – most likely it was flying clothing that the, a crew had used a few minutes ago, and it was soaking wet and cold. But I’d noted that the helmet was one of the old type helmets with the zip earpieces, and it was my head that used to get cold with the thin helmets, flying helmets that we normally had. So, a little case of swapping went on there. And I came away with a heavier, heavier helmet, which I promptly cleaned up and laundered and the – ‘cause it was quite dirty inside really. But I laundered it and polished the brass and I had to resew some of the straps on, the hooks on because they were in the wrong position for my oxygen mask and things like that. But I did all that and very snug and very comfortable helmet I got out of it. And you could, if you could see me on a dark night you’d see a smile on my face that all the cold outside I was nice and warm in that helmet. I’ve still got that helmet, yes. So, I had done some thirty-one operations on the Stirlings and Lancasters. And then another sixteen or seventeen on North American Mitchells. And that made quite a total. About forty-seven, forty-eight, forty-eight operations. Quite a lot. Quite good fun, quite good fun.
JH: And how did you feel about being in the war, was it?
PN: Well it was – I lived in London of course you see. I lived in London until 1943 when I joined the air force. And we were often very well bombed. In fact, I remember when I came home, when I first passed out as a sergeant air gunner, that I came, got a taxi because I’d got quite hefty kit bags. I thought ‘I can’t get on buses and things with those’ so I got a taxi home. And he stopped at one place and I waited for a minute, ‘What have you stopped here for?’ he said ‘Well this is where you wanted to be isn’t it?’ And I looked out and it was. My house a bit dented, a bit well and truly dented. Had bombs near it and had got quite well damaged. But my people, my father and mother, they were all right. Of course, they’d been a bit shaken up by all that but they survived it all right. And I saw that things were all right. And that’s when I went back onto flying operations again.
JH: Did you hear a lot about Bomber Harris you know?
PN: Oh yes, he was a –
JH: Yes.
PN: Yes, Butch, we called him Butch. Butch Harris, yeah. Yes, we thought he was a great man, a very good man. He was well appreciated and his trips that he put us on.
JH: Would he visit your base, your squadrons at all or?
PN: I never saw him no.
JH: You didn’t see him?
PN: I didn’t see him. We did get some people you know quite high up, high up ranks come and visit the station at times but they never came to see us as well. They, would often talk to people up in the front like the pilot and navigators but they never came down towards the tail end. Never talked to the mere gunners oh no. [laughs] Probably wasn’t designed, they probably didn’t think about it. But I couldn’t care, I wouldn’t bother really about that. So, there it is. And as I say I came out in 1946 something like that and a friend that I’d had at home for a long, long time we had decided that when the war was over we would start up a small restaurant, that kind of business. And so, I came out and I worked in hotels for quite a while, for several years. A particular one was Grosvenor House in Park Lane. Yes, I worked in the kitchens there. And then I got a little bit tired. Well you worked from early morning, you had a break in the afternoon, and then you worked at night again until about two or three in the morning. And eventually after doing that for about three or four years I got tired of that, I went back into the air force. And though I went back as a sergeant air gunner and a gunnery instructor so I was quite happy about that. And I spent several more years in the air force then.
JH: Where were you based then in the air force?
PN: Then, where was I? I can’t remember the places. Well, we went into – I forget the name but we did some flying for – I was a gunnery instructor there, we did gunnery instructing. I think up in Scotland somewhere. I think we did some training, you know training gunners up there, who were being trained as gunners. And eventually I came down, eventually I came out of the air force and settled down.
JH: What ‘planes were you flying then, when you were training then up there?
PN: Ah yes, I was flying Shackletons, Shackletons. When I started with them you know they had two forward wheels and the tail was down on the floor. But afterwards a little later on they became tri-planes and they had all three wheels at the front and they were flying on the three wheels you know, they landed on the three wheels, much better aircraft. Shackelton III and we did quite a bit of gunnery training on the Shackletons and they were quite nice. Yes, well that’s taken you over a whole few years.
JH: It has.
PN: 1950’s.
JH: Yes, and did you actually keep in touch with any of the crew after the war?
PN: No.
JH: No?
PN: No, never saw them again.
JH: Didn’t see them?
PN: Of course, they went back to New Zealand see.
JH: Of course.
PN: Mind, later on I did meet up with my skipper’s daughter. In fact I’ve got some pictures of her there. She was a nice girl and she came and stayed with us one time. And I’ve got a picture, several pictures of her there in my casings there. You can have a look at them some time when you’re ready.
JH: What did your skipper do then after the war, she obviously told you?
PN: Oh, I don’t know.
JH: She didn’t say?
PN: Don’t know what he did.
JH: No?
PN: But not very long afterwards unfortunately his wife died.
JH: Right.
PN: And later, little later on he died as well. In fact, I’m the only one of the crew now alive.
JH: Right.
PN: All – they were as I say, when I joined them they were all in their thirties. So, they were about fifteen years older than me so they therefore of course they didn’t last so long. Now I’ve got a picture here. A book here – my logbook, my flying logbook. And there’s even – when we were flying in Germany we did a flypast for the Russian leader [rustling] a General Zhukov, and there’s a picture of General Zhukov. [rustling]
JH: September 1945.
PN: Yes.
JH: So that was at the surrender?
PN: Yes, yes we did a flypast for him. That was in the North American Mitchells I think. [rustling]
JH: I’d like to thank you Peter for allowing me to record this interview today, so thank you very much.
PN: That’s OK, my pleasure.
JH: Thank you.
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Peter Rowland Ruthven Neech
Creator
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Judy Hodgson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-13
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ANeechPRR161013
PNeechPRR1601
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:44:34 audio recording
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Shropshire
England--Suffolk
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
Description
An account of the resource
Peter was born in London and his home suffered bomb damage during the war. He served in the Air Training Corps until joining the Royal Air Force in 1943. After reporting to the Aircrew Reception Centre at St John’s Wood, he spent a few weeks at RAF Bridgnorth. Peter then went to the Air Gunnery School at RAF Dalcross. This was followed by RAF Westcott, a training station on Wellington aircraft. Peter flew in Stirling aircraft at RAF Stradishall where he had a mid-upper gun turret unlike in the Wellingtons. He worked as an instructor for four months at RAF Dalcross before joining 98 Squadron on North American Mitchells. He was initially based in Norfolk but then went near Brussels and Osnabrück.
Peter carried out a tour of 31 operations on Stirlings and Lancasters, followed by 17 operations on North American Mitchells.
Peter recounts a few incidents from his tours, describes the corkscrew evasion method and how he coped with the cold in the mid-upper turret. They held a positive view of Arthur Harris.
Although he left the RAF in 1946, Peter returned as a sergeant air gunner and gunnery instructor. He flew in Shackletons.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sally Coulter
75 Squadron
98 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
B-25
bombing
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Lancaster
military service conditions
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Dalcross
RAF Stradishall
RAF Westcott
Shackleton
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/770/9384/SDexterKI127249v10011.1.jpg
dc1dfcde1df99ab8b14cadfb4b9cc714
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Dexter, Keith Inger. Album
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. Contains newspaper articles and information about Keith and Shelia Dexter while at school. Includes a number of photographs of Keith Dexter's mother's home in Stradishall and of a memorial to men of F Division of the Metropolitan Police lost during 1939-45. Followed by documents from Squadron Leader A N Banks concerning the collision between a Halifax and a Mosquito at RAF Foulsham in a April 1944 with photographs as well as information on Foulsham and 192 Squadron. Finally photographs of Keith Dexter's medals, an escape map and compass and a photograph of a model train built by Keith Dexter with a certificate from the Model Engineering Exhibition 1933.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Dexter, KI
Date
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2017-08-30
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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[inserted] Annex ‘A’ to MDB 25 1X [/inserted]
ACTION STATIONS 1
House, Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen, on March 21 1945.
After the war squadrons of 2 Group began arriving for armament training, No 180 in June 1945 and Nos 605, 140 and 613 in July. Then, on August 1 1945, No 2 Group Disbandment Centre formed from the GSU and through the unit squadrons of 2 Group passed to wind down. No 2 Group Training Flight was also in residence at this time and when it closed in December 1945 Fersfield ended its active days.
Flixton, Suffolk
[italics] See Bungay [/italics]
Foulsham, Norfolk
[italics] TG029265. E of Foulsham village, off A1067 [/italics]
This was an unconventional operation. Whatever else, the Mitchell was not a low-level strike aircraft, it was too slow and clumsy. Yet when 98 and 180 Squadrons entered battle on January 11 1943, they did so with a roof height attack on Ghent/Terneuzen, from Foulsham. Flak was heavy and, as the bombers and their unusual escort of Mustangs, best at low level, retired, FW 190s raced in. Three Mitchells out of 12 were shot down.
Foulsham opened in May 1942, joining 2 Group the following month. It was far from ready to receive its squadrons and not until October did 98 and 180 Squadrons bring their aircraft in from Massingham. Foulsham would always be remembered as the first Mitchell operational station, for here the squadrons worked up, plagued with gun and turret problems. Indeed, these were so bad that the squadrons had to be withdrawn from a share in the December Philips raid, although 180 Squadron managed ASR patrols on December 8, the first operational sorties by RAF Mitchells.
Turret and gun troubles retarded Mitchell operations until May. Training had been hindered, too, by the poor state of the muddy airfield where accommodation was primitive. This did not prevent Horsa gliders arriving for storage, where No 12 Glider MU was situated for a year.
By May 1943 both Mitchell squadrons were training to fly in box formations and on the 11th six crews of 180 Squadron set off for Boulogne, but were thwarted by bad weather. Next day 98 Squadron successfully raided the same target. On May 15 and 16 they bombed Caen airfield, 180 [inserted][symbol] over [/inserted]
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
History of RAF Foulsham
Foulsham, Norfolk
Description
An account of the resource
History of RAF Foulsham which opened in May 1942 and received 98 and 180 Squadrons in October 1942 with B-25 aircraft. Describes problems getting B-25 operational and early operations as well as an early low level operation on Ghent/Terncuzen where three of 12 aircraft were shot down.
Format
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One page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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SDexterKI127249v10011
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Norfolk
Belgium
Belgium--Ghent
France
France--Caen
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-05
1942-10
1943-01-11
1943-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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David Bloomfield
Steve Baldwin
Requires
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Workflow A completed
180 Squadron
98 Squadron
B-25
RAF Foulsham
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/770/9390/SDexterKI127249v10015.2.jpg
fe611fe255f74dd3302f770beb56e56c
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Dexter, Keith Inger. Album
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. Contains newspaper articles and information about Keith and Shelia Dexter while at school. Includes a number of photographs of Keith Dexter's mother's home in Stradishall and of a memorial to men of F Division of the Metropolitan Police lost during 1939-45. Followed by documents from Squadron Leader A N Banks concerning the collision between a Halifax and a Mosquito at RAF Foulsham in a April 1944 with photographs as well as information on Foulsham and 192 Squadron. Finally photographs of Keith Dexter's medals, an escape map and compass and a photograph of a model train built by Keith Dexter with a certificate from the Model Engineering Exhibition 1933.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Dexter, KI
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-30
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Short history of RAF Foulsham
Description
An account of the resource
History from opening on 22 November 1942 to civilian use up to January 1981. Originally 2 Group with 98 and 180 squadrons flying B-25. Later based 514 Squadron Lancaster of 3 Group then 192 Squadron of 100 Group flying Wellington. Mosquito and Halifax on special operations. Relates incident on 27/28 April 1944 when Halifax landed on top of Mosquito. Finally 462 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force flying Halifax target marking and radio countermeasures.
Format
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One page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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SDexterKI127249v10015
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Norfolk
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-11-22
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-04-28
1981-01
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
100 Group
180 Squadron
192 Squadron
2 Group
3 Group
462 Squadron
514 Squadron
98 Squadron
B-25
Halifax
Lancaster
Mosquito
RAF Foulsham
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/770/9399/SDexterKI127249v10021.2.jpg
8f184a1aff889f4a6bf6e94ffd90509b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dexter, Keith Inger. Album
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. Contains newspaper articles and information about Keith and Shelia Dexter while at school. Includes a number of photographs of Keith Dexter's mother's home in Stradishall and of a memorial to men of F Division of the Metropolitan Police lost during 1939-45. Followed by documents from Squadron Leader A N Banks concerning the collision between a Halifax and a Mosquito at RAF Foulsham in a April 1944 with photographs as well as information on Foulsham and 192 Squadron. Finally photographs of Keith Dexter's medals, an escape map and compass and a photograph of a model train built by Keith Dexter with a certificate from the Model Engineering Exhibition 1933.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Dexter, KI
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-30
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
THE AIRFIELDS 115
Squadron flying its first Circus on May 16 and attaching Triequeville. A large number of enemy fighters rose to give battle, but the Mitchells all returned safely to Foulsham. Thereafter both squadrons flew Circuses and Ramrods when the weather permitted. By mid-August 180 Squadron had flown 17 operations. The long haul to the south was time- and nerve-consuming, and to be better placed for operations running up to D-Day both squadrons flew out, aircraft going singly for security reasons, to Dunsfold on August 18/19, having flown their first large scale 24-aircraft operation on August 12. The feeling in July had been that the Mitchell might be better in the Middle East. Indeed, 98 Squadron flew to Honiley in July for range trials, but the idea was abandoned.
Vacant Foulsham was taken over by 3 Group on September 1. On the same day No 514, the second Lancaster 1 squadron in the Group, formed here. Providing crews for Stirling-orientated 3 Group had caused 1678 Flight to form, and this moved to Foulsham on September 16 to be on hand to supply crews for 514 Squadron. It took them two months to reach operational status and, on November 3/4 1943, six Lancasters commenced operations, two going to Düsseldorf and four mining. Not for long did they operate out of Foulsham for, in a general shake up, both units moved to Waterbeach on November 23.
The need to base 3 Group Lancaster Finishing School at Feltwell meant it must lose its operational commitment. So, on November 25, No 192 Squadron left for Foulsham. This highly specialised squadron was flying Halifaxes, Mosquito IVs and Wellington Xs all specially fitted out with listening equipment to snoop on German radio and radar transmission. On December 7 100 Group took over Foulsham and snatched 192 Squadron in the process, the unit being enlarged on December 12 when 1473 Flight, which had been similarly employed, arrived from Little Snoring to become its ‘C’ Flight. Backing the squadron, the Special Duty Radar Development Unit arrived in mid-April 1944 and became the Bomber Support Development Unit on May 1. It stayed until December 23 1944, and used Mosquitoes. The Americans needed similar intelligence material and, from August 1944 to early 1945, a detachment of two-seater P-38s was stationed at Foulsham.
Once BSDU had left the station Halifax IIIs of 462 Squadron RAAF arrived from 4 Group on December 27 1944, trained in the use of special equipment, and commenced operations on March 13 1945.
No 192 Squadron played a vital part in the bomber offensive from 1943. Operating widely over occupied territory and Germany, its crews listened to enemy radio chatter and discovered frequencies of these and radar equipment. They snooped upon the airborne radar of night fighters, jammed VHF transmissions and afforded RAF control of German fighters. By summer 1944 they were operating by day and night, and the squadron was, on April 9 1945, the last to fly the Mosquitoes jammed enemy R/T.
Foulsham’s value was greatly extended when, in 1944, the main NE/SW runway was fitted with FIDO equipment to allow operations in misty weather.
The wart over, both squadrons disbanded, 192 on August 22 1945 and 462 on September 24, then the station passed to Care & Maintenance under 40 Group in 1945. The RAF soon vacated it, but the station was not sold off. In 1954-1955 the USAF based a special signals unit there.
Runways, ‘T’ Type hangars, the perimeter track and the water tower all remain among the farm land. Flying has not ceased, for often a crop-spraying Piper Pawnee can be seen about its business in the summer months.
An aerial view of Foulsham taken on January 31 1946 (DoE).
[photograph]
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
History of RAF Foulsham
Description
An account of the resource
Starts with description of operations with B-25 from RAF Foulsham. Succeeded by 514 Squadron Lancaster and 1678 training flight. Replaced by 192 Squadron of 100 Group flying Halifax, Mosquito and Wellington on radio countermeasure and other special operations. Bomber support development unit arrived in April 1944. FIDO added to airfield in 1944. Station place on care and maintenance 1945. At the bottom a photograph of the airfield taken January 1946.
Format
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One page printed document with b/w photograph
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Photograph
Identifier
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SDexterKI127249v10021
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Norfolk
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946-01
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
100 Group
1678 HCU
192 Squadron
3 Group
462 Squadron
514 Squadron
B-25
FIDO
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Mosquito
P-38
RAF Foulsham
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/971/10025/MMolloyS[Ser -DoB]-160212-01.pdf
31dff3d389965a32008336afe506ab34
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Title
A name given to the resource
Molloy, Shae
S Molloy
Description
An account of the resource
One Luftwaffe intelligence file on Allied aircraft.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Shae Molloy and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Molloy, S
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[Partial transcription]
Frontnachrichtenblatt der Luftwaffe
Nicht zum Feindflug mitnehmen!
Der Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe
Führungsstab I C
Sonderausgabe:
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte
Teil I: Britishe Kriegsflugzeuge (einschl. Der USA-Lieferungen)
Teil II: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der USA.
Teil III: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Sowjet-Union
Leistungen und Bilder
Stand: 1. September 1942
INHALT
Vorbemerkungen Anlagen 1 und 2
Teil I: Britische Kriegsflugzeuge (einschl. Der USA.-Lieferungen)
Hoheitsabzeichen der britischen Kriegsflugzeuge Anlage 3
Leistungstabellen Grossbritannien (einschl. Der USA.-Lieferungen) Anlagen 4a-4c
Schattenrisse im Maßstab 1:1000 der wichtigsten britischen Kriegsflugzeuge Anlagen 5a-5e
Westland “Lysander” Anlagen 6a-6c
Hawker “Hurricane I” Anlagen 7a, 7b
Hawker “Hurricane II C” Anlagen 8a-8c
Supermarine “Spitfire I” Anlagen 9a, 9b
Supermarine “Spitfire V” Anlagen 10a, 10b
Supermarine “Spitfire” (Aufkl.) Anlage 10c
Westland “Whirlwind” Anlagen 11a-11c
Boulton & Paul “Defiant” Anlagen 12a, 12b
Bristol “Beaufighter I” Anlagen 13a, 13b
Bristol “Blenheim-Fighter” Anlagen 14a, 14b
Bell “Airacobra” (P-39) Anlagen 15a-15c
Brewster “Buffalo” (F2A-2) Anlagen 16a-16c
Lockheed “Lightning” (P-38) Anlagen 17a-17c
Grumman “Martlet” (F4F-3 “Wildcat”) Anlagen 18a-18c
North American “Mustang” (P-51)Anlagen 19a-19c
Curtiss “Tomahawk” (P-40B) Anlagen 20a, 20c, 20d
Curtiss “Kittyhawk” (P-40E) Anlagen 20b, 20d
Curtiss “Warhawk” (P-40F) Anlagen 20d
Bristol “Beaufort” Anlagen 21a-21c
Bristol “Blenheim I” Anlage 22
Bristol “Blenheim IV” (“Long-nosed”) Anlagen 23a, 23b
Bristol “Blenheim VIII“ Anlage 23c
Handley-Page “Halifax I” Anlagen 24a-24c
Handley-Page “Halifax II” Anlage 24d
Handley-Page “Hampden” Anlagen 25a-25c
Handley-Page “Hereford” Anlage 25d
Avro “Lancaster” Anlagen 26a-26c
Avro “Manchester” Anlagen 27a-27c
De Havilland D. H. 98 “Mosquito” Anlage 28
Short “Stirling” Anlagen 29a-29c
Vickers “Wellington I” Anlage 30b
Vickers “Wellington II” Anlage 30c
Vickers “Wellington III” Anlagen 30a, 30c
Armstrong-Whitworth “Whitley V” Anlagen 31a-31c
Martin “Baltimore” Anlagen 32a, 32b
Martin “Maryland” Anlagen 33a-33c
Lockheed “Hudson” (A-29) Anlagen 34a-34c
Lockheed “Ventura” Anlage 35
Douglas “Boston” (A-20A) Anlagen 36a-36c
Boeing “Fortress I” (B-17 C, D) Anlagen 37a-37c
Boeing “Fortress II” (B-17 E)Anlagen 38a, 38b
Consolidated “Liberator” (B-24) Anlagen 39a-39c
Brewster “Bermuda” (SB2A-1 “Bucaneer”) Anlagen 40a-40c
Vought-Sikorsky “Chesapeake” (SB2U-3 “Vindicator”) Anlagen 41a-41c
Curtiss “Cleveland” (SBC-3) Anlagen 42a-42c
Fairey “Seafox” Anlage 43
Supermarine “Walrus” Anlage 44
Saro “Lerwick” Anlagen 45a-45c
Short “Sunderland” Anlagen 46a-46c
Consolidated “Catalina” (PBY-5 “Catalina”) Anlagen 47a-47c
Consolidated “Coronado” (PB2Y-3 “Coronado”) Anlagen 48a, 48b
Martin “Mariner” (PBM-2 “Mariner”) Anlagen 49a, 49b
Fairey “Fulmar” Anlagen 50a, 50b
Blackburn “Roc” Anlagen 51a-51c
Fairey “Albacore” Anlagen 52a-52c
Fairey “Swordfish” Anlagen 53a, 53b
Blackburn “Skua” Anlagen 54a-54c
Northrop N-3PB Anlage 55
Bristol “Bombay” Anlage 56
De Havilland “Flamingo”, “Hertfordshire”Anlage 57
General Aircraft “Hotspur II” Anlagen 58a, 58b
Teil II: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der USA.
Hoheitsabzeichen Anlage 59
Allgemeines Anlage 60
Leistungstabellen USA Anlagen 61a, 61b
Schattenrisse im Maßstab 1:1000 der wichtigsten USA.-Kriegsflugzeuge Anlagen 62a, 62b
North American O-47Anlage 63
Curtiss O-52 Anlage 64
Republic P-43 “Lancer” Anlage 65
Republic P-47 “Thunderbolt” Anlage 66
Douglas A-24 Anlage 67
North American B-25B Anlage 68b
North American B-25C “Mitchell” Anlagen 68a, 68c
Martin B-26 “Marauder”Anlagen 69a, 69b
Douglas SBD-3 “Dauntless” Anlage 70
Curtiss SB2C-1 “Helldiver” Anlagen 71a, 71b
Vultee V-72 “Vengeance” Anlagen 72a, 72b
Vought-Sikorsky SO2U “Kingfisher” Anlage 73
Curtiss SO3C-1 “Seagull” Anlage 74
Boeing PBB-1 “Sea Ranger” Anlage 75
Consolidated 31 Anlage 75
Vought-Sikorsky F4U-1 “Corsair” Anlage 76
Douglas TBD “Devastator” Anlage 77
Grumman TBF “Avenger” Anlage 78
Transportflugzeuge Anlagen 79, 80
Lastensegler Anlage 81
Kleinluftschiff (sog. “Blimp”) Anlage 81
Teil III: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Sowjet-Union
Hoheitsabzeichen Anlage 82
Allgemeines Anlagen 83a, 83b
Leistungstabellen Sowjet-Union Anlage 84
Schattenrisse im Maßstab 1:1000 der wichtigsten Kriegsflugzeuge der Sowjet-Union....Anlagen 85a-85c
R-5 Anlage 86
R-10 Anlagen 87a, 87b
I-15 bis Anlage 88
I-153 Anlagen 89a, 89b
I-16 Anlagen 90a, 90b
JAK-1 Anlagen 91a, 91b
MIG-1, -3 Anlagen 92a, 92b
LAGG-3 Anlagen 93a, 93b
SB (bisher SB-2) Anlage 94
SB (bisher SB-3) Anlagen 95a, 95b
AR-2 Anlagen 96a, 96b
DB-3 Anlagen 97a, 97b
DB-3F Anlagen 98a, 98b
JAK-4 Anlage 99
PE-2 Anlagen 100a, 100b
SU-2 Anlagen 101a, 101b
IL-2 Anlagen 102a, 102b
ER-2 Anlage 103
TB-7 Anlage 104
KOR-1 Anlage 105
MBR-2 Anlagen 106a, 106b
MDR-6 Anlage 107
GST Anlage 108
TB-3 Anlage 109a, 109c
PS-84 Anlagen 109b, 109c
U-2 Anlage 110
UT-1 Anlage 111
UT-2 Anlage 111
JAK-7 Anlage 112
Teil I: Britische Kriegsflugzeuge (einschl. Der USA.-Lieferungen)
Achtung!
Wichtige Vorbemerkungen!
In den Leistungstabellen sind die Flugzeuge der USA.-Herkunft durch entsprechende Überschrift kenntlich gemacht und die militärische und Werksbezeichnung in USA. in der Spalte “Bemerkungen” angeführt.
Bei den Schattenrissen im Maßstab 1:1000 tragen die Anlagen links oben die Überschrift:
“Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte” Grossbritannien (einschl. USA.-Lieferungen)
Diejenigen Flugzeugmuster, die bei der britischen und bei der USA.-Fliegertruppe eingesetzt sind, tragen in Klammern unter der britischen militärischen Bezeichnung auch die militärische Bezeichnung in USA.
Bei den Bildtafeln und Bewaffnungsskizzen wird unterschieden a) zwischen den Mustern britischer Herkunft, b) den Mustern amerikanischer Herkunft, die nur bei der britischen Luftwaffe eingesetzt werden und c) den Mustern, die bei der britischen und USA.-Fliegertruppe Verwendung finden.
Die unter c) angeführten Muster werden in Teil II “Die Kriegsflugzeuge der USA.” nicht mehr angeführt.
Die Anlagen tragen deshalb in Teil I links oben folgende unterschiedliche Bezeichnungen:
Zu a) Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte” Grossbritannien
Zu b) Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte” Grossbritannien (Herkunft USA.)
Zu c) Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte” Grossbritannien und USA.
Im Fall b) werden die USA.-Werksbezeichnungen in “Fußnoten” gebracht.
Im Fall c) werden die militärischen USA.-Bezeichnungen in Klammern hinter der britischen Benennung, die USA.-Werksbezeichnungen in Fußnoten gebracht.
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte - Anlage 1
Vorbemerkungen:
1. Die Steigzeiten werden auf 0,5 min, die Dienstgipfelhöhe auf 0,5 km, die Geschwindigkieten auf 5 km/st abgerundet.
2. Bei den Motorenleistungen sind die Höchstleistungen und dahinter die Höhe angegeben, in der die Höchstleistung des betreffenden Motorenmusters erzielt wird.
3. In der Rubrik bew. MG.-Stände/ MG. in den Tabellen (Anlagen 4a – 4c, 61 a, 61 b und 84) bedeutet die obere Zahl die Anzahl der Mg.-Stände, die untere Zahl die Gesamtzahl der MG. Die Anordnung der einzelnen MG. siehe Bewaffnungsskizze des betr. Musters.
4. Flugdauer und Gesamtflugstrecke sind naturgemäß abhängig vom Grad der Drosselung. Die Flugdauer kann sich schätzungsweise rund in den Grenzen 1:3 bewegen, die Gesamtflugstrecke in den Grenzen 1:2. Die angegebene Flugdauer und Gesamtflugstrecke bezieht sich zumeist auf eine mittlere Drosselung von etwa 66% oder auf die angeführte Marschgeschwindigkeit.
5. Unter normaler Flugstrecke und normaler Eindringtiefe sind die Werte bei größter Bombenlast angegeben.
6. Die Leistungen und näheren Angaben der Flugzeuge für mehrere Verwendungszwecke werden nur in der Tabelle der Hauptverwendung angeführt.
7. Bei Unterschieden zu den Angaben der früher herausgegebenen Leistungstabellen sind die Angaben in den Zusammenstellungen dieses Heftes maßgebend.
8. Bei der Betrachtung der Bilder ist zu berücksichtigen, daß die Tarnbemalung entsprechend den verschiedenen Kriegsschauplätzen verschieden ist.
Alle Angaben sind nach dem Stande vom 1. September 1942 neu bearbeitet.
Die in den bisherigen Frontnachrichtenblättern erschienenen Bilder und Zeichnungen der wichtigsten Kriegsflugzeuge sind, soweit brauchbar, wiederholt und ergänzt, die Leistungsangaben berichtigt worden.
Vorliegendes Sonderheft zum Aushang bringen und zum Unterricht benutzen!
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte - Anlage 2
Anordnung der Bewaffnung, der Kraftstoffbehälter und der Panzerung bei den wichtigsten Kriegsflugzeugen der Feindmächte
In den Zeichnungen sind die Bewaffnung, die Kraftstoffbehälter und die Panzerung nach nachstehendem Schema eingezeichnet:
- Kraftstoffbehälter geschützt
- Kraftstoffbehälter ungeschützt
- Panzerung
- MG
- MG. in Bola [Bola= short for “Bodenlafette”, a ventral gun carriage or gondola]
- Kanone
Die Skizzen sind ohne bestimmten Maßstab. Die Eintragungen wurden auf Grund der zur Zeit vorhandenen Unterlagen – soweit möglich unter Auswertung der Beuteflugzeuge – durchgeführt.
Es ist anzunehmen, daß alle Flugzeuge mindestens mit einem Rückenpanzer für den Flugzeugführer behelfsmäßig ausgestattet sind. Bei den Flugzeugmustern, bei denen an Hand von Beuteflugzeugen eine Panzerung festgestellt wurde, ist diese in den Skizzen eingezeichnet.
Bei den neusten Flugzeugen finden sich nunmehr auch geschützte Kraftstoffbehälter.
Bei den Angaben über die Bewaffnung ist zu berücksichtigen, daß ein und dasselbe Flugzeugmuster verschiedene Bewaffnung aufweisen kann, z. B. Doppel-MG. statt Einfach-MG., Kanonen statt starre MG. usw. Alle bisher bekanntgewordenen Bewaffnungsarten sind bei den jeweiligen Mustern in der Beschreibung auf der Skizze vermerkt.
Die Skizzen von Feindflugzeugen mit Eintragung der Bewaffnung, der Kraftstoffbehälter und der Panzerung werden entsprechend eingehender neuer Unterlagen laufend berichtigt und für neu eingesetzte Flugzeugmuster laufend ergänzt werden!
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte - Großbritannien (einschl. Der USA.-Lieferungen) – Anlage 3
Hoheitsabzeichen der britischen Kriegsflugzeuge
Flügeloberseite
Flügelunterseite
Neuerdings sind der gelbe Ring um die Kokarde, desgleichen der weiße Ring in der Kokarde und der weiße Streifen an der Seitenflosse wesentlich schmäler gehalten. Bisher waren alle Ringe der Kokarde und alle Streifen an der Seitenflosse gleich breit.
Teil II: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der USA.
Achtung!
Wichtige Vorbemerkung!
In diesem Teil sind die Muster nicht mehr aufgeführt, die auch in der britischen Luftwaffe eingesetzt sind. Diese Muster sind im Teil I “Britische Kriegsflugzeuge” (einschl. der USA.-Lieferungen) in den Anlagen 15a-15c, 16a-16c, 17a-17c, 18a-18c, 19a-19c, 20a-20d, 34a-34c, 36a-36c, 37a-37c, 38a, 38b, 39a-39c, 40a-40c, 41a-41c, 42a-42c, 47a-47c, 48a, 48b, 49a und 49b gebracht. Diese Anlagen sind dadurch besonders kenntlich gemacht, daß sie links oben folgende Bezeichnung tragen:
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte
Großbritannien und USA.
Die meisten Bilder tragen noch di bisherigen Hoheitsabzeichen.
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte – USA. - Anlage 59
Hoheitsabzeichen der USA.-Kriegsflugzeuge
Hoheitsabzeichen auf Flügelober- und –unterseite. Neuerdings häufig nur auf einer Flügelseite (linker Oberseite und rechter Unterseite). Die Flügelunterseiten der Heeresflugzeuge tragen außerdem häufig die Aufschrift: US-Army.
Hoheitsabzeichen auf beiden Seiten des Rumpfes.
Sowohl bei Heeres- als auch bei Marineflugzeugen nicht regelmäßig vorhanden.
Hoheitsabzeichen auf beiden Seiten des Rumpfes, nur bei Marineflugzeugen. Nicht regelmäßig vorhanden.
Hoheitsabzeichen: fünfzackiger weißer oder hellgrauer Stern in kreisförmigem blauen Feld. Nach einer unbestätigten Pressemeldung ist das Hoheitsabzeichen von gelbem Ring umschlossen (warscheinlich am Rumpf). Weiß, gelb, blau
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte – USA. - Anlage 60
Allgemeines
Bedeutung der Bezeichnung der Flugzeugmuster der amerikanischen Heeresfliegertruppe
Die einzelnen Flugzeugmuster werden durch Buchstaben und eine Zahl gekennzeichnet. Die Buchstaben vor der Zahl bedeuten die Kategorie, die Zahl gibt an, um das wievielte Muster in der betreffenden Kategorie es sich handelt. Die Bezifferung ist hierbei laufend, ohne Rücksicht auf die Herstellerfirma und ohne Rücksicht darauf, ob das Muster nur als Versuchsmuster oder in Serie gebaut wurde. Ein weiterer Buchstabe nach der Zahl gibt die verschiedenen Serien (Ausführungen) des betreffenden Musters an. Die Kategorien werden durch folgende Buchstaben bezeichnet:
O (Observation) = Aufklärer
B (Bombing) = Kampfflugzeug
A (Attack) = Tiefangriffsflugzeug
P (Pursuit) = Jäger
FM (Multiseater Fighter) = mehrsitziger Jäger (Zerstörer)
C (Cargo) = Transportflugzeug
OA (Observation Amphibium) = Aufklärer-Amphibienflugzeug
Ein X (Experimental) vor der Bezeichnung bedeutet, daß es sich um ein Versuchsmuster handelt, ein Y, daß es sich um ein Flugzeugmuster im Truppenversuch handelt. Zum Beispiel:
B-18 = das 18. Kampfflugzeugmuster
B-18A = die 2. Serie (1. Abwandlung des 18. Kampfflugzeugmusters)
YFM-2 = das 2. Zerstörermuster, im Truppenversuch sich befindend
P-40D = die 5. Ausführung des 40. Jägermusters
Bedeutung der Bezeichnung der Flugzeugmuster der amerikanischen Marinefliegertruppe
Die Fluzeugmuster werden durch eine Gruppe von Buchstaben und Zahlen bezeichnet, die durch einen Bindestrich getrennt sind. Durch die Gruppe vor dem Bindestrich wird die Art der Verwendung, die Herstellerfirma und die Musterzahl gekennzeichnet, während die Zahl hinter dem Bindestrich die betreffende Serie angibt. Der letzte Buchstabe vor dem Bindestrich ist das Kennzeichen für die Herstellerfirma, wobei die einzelnen Firmen wie folgt bezeichnet sind:
A = Brewster
B = Boeing (auch Beech Aircraft)
C = Curtiss
D = Douglas
F = Grumman
H = Hall
J = North American
L = Bell
M = Martin
N = Naval Aircraft Factory
O = Lockheed
P = Spartan
R = Ryan
S = Stearman
T = Northrop
U = Vought-Sikorsky
Y = Consolidated.
Die vorangehende Zahl gibt an, um das wievielte Flugzeug dieser Kategorie der betreffenden Firma es sich handelt, wobei jedoch das erste Flugzeug nicht speziell durch eine Zahl angeführt wird. Die Zahl 1 wird daher weggelassen. Vor dieser Zahl wird der Verwendungszweck des Musters durch 1 bis 2 Buchstaben ausgedrückt. Der erste Buchstabe bedeutet hierbei den Hauptverwendungszweck, der zweite die zusätzliche Verwendungsart. Es werden folgende Buchstaben verwendet:
P = Fernaufklärer (Flugboote)
O = Aufklärer (Artilleriebeobachter)
S = Nahaufklärer
B = Kampfflugzeuge (Stuka)
F = Jagdflugzeuge
J = Arbeitsflugzeuge (Amphibien)
N = Schulflugzeuge
R = Reiseflugzeuge
T = Torpedoflugzeuge
PB = Fernaufklärer-Kampfflugzeuge
OS = Artilleriebeobachter und Nahaufklärer
SB = Aufklärer-Stuka
TB = Torpedo-Kampfflugzeuge
SN = Aufklärer-Schulflugzeuge
JR = Arbeits-Reiseflugzeuge
Ein X (Experimental) vor diesen Buchstaben bedeutet, daß es sich um eine Versuchsauführung handelt. Die Zahl hinter dem Bindestrich bezeichnet, um die wievielte Serie des betreffenden Musters es sich handelt, wobei die einzelnen Serien verschiedene Motorenmuster oder sonstige Änderungen aufweisen.
Zum Beispiel:
S U-4
S: Kategorie “Aufklärer”
U: Fa. Vought (Da keine Zahl voraussteht, bedeutet es das 1. Muster dieser Kategorie)
4: 4. Serie
S B 2 U-3
S B: Kategorie “Aufklärer-Stuka”
2: 2. Muster dieser Kategorie (der Fa. Vought)
U: Fa. Vought-Sikorsky
3: 3. Serie
X T B F -1
X: Versuchsmuster
T B: Kategorie Torpedobomber
F: Fa. Grumman (1. Muster der Kategorie)
1: 1. Serie
Teil III: Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Sowjet-Union
Achtung!
Wichtige Vorbemerkung!
Um die Feststellung von erbeuteten Flugzeugen zu erleichtern, sind die Muster auch mit den russischen Buchstaben bezeichnet, z. B. I-16 = И-16.
Bei den seit 1940 engeführten neuen Flugzeugmustern erfolgte ab 1941 eine Änderung der Bezeichnung: die Neubezeichnung führt nicht mehr die Kategorie der Flugzeuge an, sondern ist aus den Namen der Konstrukteure gebildet. Diese neuen militärischen Bezeichnungen werden in der vorliegenden Zusammenstellung in der ersten Überschriftzeile in der deutschen und der russischen Schreibweise angegeben, die bisherigen Bezeichnungen in Klammern darunter (nur in der deutschen Schreibweise). Bei den schon früher eingeführten Mustern ist die alte Bezeichnungsart beibehalten worden.
In diesem Teil werden nur die Kriegsflugzeuge gebracht, die in der Sowjet-Union selbst hergestellt werden.
Die Muster britischer und amerikanischer Lieferungen sind in Teil I (Britische Kriegsflugzeuge einschl. der USA.-Leiferungen) und Teil II (Die Kriegsflugzeuge der USA.) zu finden.
Zur Zeit (September 1942) sind folgende fremde Muster bei der Luftwaffe der Sowjet-Union festgestellt worden:
Jagdeinsitzer Hawker “Hurricane” (s. Teil I, Anlagen 7a, 7b, 8a-8c)
Jagdeinsitzer Bell “Airacobra” (s. Teil I, Anlagen 15a-15c)
Jagdeinsitzer Curtiss “Tomahawk” (s. Teil I, Anlagen 20a, 20c, 20d)
Kampfflugzeug Douglas “Boston II” und “Boston III” (s. Teil I, Anlagen 36a-36c)
Kampfflugzeug North American B-25 (s. Teil II, Anlagen 68a-68c)
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte – Sowjet-Union - Anlage 82
Hoheitsabzeichen nach sowjetischer Vorschrift von 1941
Seitenansicht
Ansicht von oben
Ansicht von unten
Die Vorschrift wird nicht in allen Fällen genau durchgeführt. Es wurde festgestellt, daß der Sowjetstern auf dem Seitenruder gelegentlich fehlt oder daß die Flügeloberseite das Hoheitsabzeichen trägt.
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte – Sowjet-Union - Anlage 83a
Allgemeines
Die militärische Bezeichnung der älteren Muster erfolgt nach der Kategorie des betreffenden Musters mit einem oder zwei Buchstaben und einer darauffolgenden Zahl.
Es bedeutet hierbei:
I (Istrebitelj) = Jagdeinsitzer
DI (Dwuchmestnyi Istrebitelj) = Jagdzweisitzer
B (Bombardirowschtschik) = Bomber
SB (Skorostnoj Bombardirowschtschik) = Schneller Bomber
DB (Daljnyj Bombardirowschtschik) = Fern-Bomber
BB (Blishnij Bombardirowschtschik) = Nah-Bomber
TB (Tjashjolyj Bombardirowschtschik) = Schwerer Bomber
PB (Pikirujuschtschi Bombardirowschtschik) = Stuka
BSch (Bronirowany Schturmowik) = Gepanzertes Schlachtflugzeug
R (Raswedtschik) = Aufklärer
SchR (Schturmowik Raswedtschik) = Teifangriffsflugzeug – Aufklärer
U (Utschebnyj Samoljot) = Schulflugzeug
UT (Utschebnyj Trenirowatschnyj) = Schul-Übungsflugzeug.
In der darauffolgenden Zahlenbezeichnung ist kein System zu erkennen. Die Zahlen sind weder aufeinanderfolgend, noch nach Werk, Konstrukteur oder Motor durchgeführt. Weiterentwicklungen werden manchmal durch eine nachfolgende Zahl, z. B. I-15 ………. I-153, manchmal durch einen nachfolgenden Buchstanden, z. B. DB-3……………Db-3F, bezeichnet.
Bei den neu eingeführten Flugzeugmustern erfolgt die Bezeichnung seit 1941 nicht mehr nach der Kategorie des Musters, sondern nach den Namen der Konstrukteure (vgl. Vorbemerkung).
Die Werktypenbezeichnung erfolgt durch eine Nummer.
Neue Bezeichnung:
JAK-1
JAK-2, -4
JAK-7
MIG-1, -3
LAGG-3
AR-2
PE-2
ER-2
SU-2
IL-2
Ursprüngliche Bezeichnung:
I-26
BB-22
UTI-26 (I-26 als 2sitziges Übungsflugzeug)
I-200 (Werksbezeichnung I-61)
I-301
SB-RK
Bei den neuen Mustern wurde oft eine Verschiedenheit in der Konstruktion oder in der Bewaffnung vorgefunden, was darauf schließen läßt, daß die serienmäßige Entwicklung noch nicht abgeschlossen ist.
Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte – Sowjet-Union - Anlage 83b
Bei Meldungen über abgeschlossene oder zerstörte Flugzeuge ist künftig die neue Musterbezeichnung anzuführen!
Hinweise für den Flugmeldedienst:
Die Unterschiede zwischen einigen Flugzeugmustern sind derart gering, daß ihr einwandfreies Erkennen im Luftraum schwierig ist. Für den Flugmeldedienst werden daher zweckmäßig sich sehr ähnlich sehende Muster (die auch immer gleichen Verwendungszweck haben) unter nur einer Bezeichnung zusammengefaßt.
1. I-15bis und I-153 werden nur als I-153 angesprochen. I-153 ist nur eine Weiterentwickung des Musters I-15 und hat wesentlichstes Merkmal ein einziehbares Fahrwerk. Außerdem sind beim Muster I-153 der obere und untere Flügel geknickt.
2. Die drei neuen Jagdeinsitzermuster LAGG-3, MIG-1, -3 und JAK-1 (“Spitzmaus”-Muster) werden nur “Lagg” angesprochen.
Am Boden ist die Unterscheidung wegen der verschiedenen Bauweisen ohne weiteres möglich.
Das Muster LAGG-3 ist in Ganzholzbauweise ausgeführt,
Das Muster JAK-1 hat einen Holzflügel (durchlaufend) und einen Rumpf aus Stahlrohr geschweißt, mit Stoff bespannt,
Das Muster MIG-1, -3 hat die Außenflügel und den rückwärtigen Teil des Rumpfes ab Führersitz in Holzbau, den Rumpfvorderteil und das Flügelmittelstück in Metallbau.
Diese drei neuen Jagdeinsitzermuster haben flüssigkeitsgekühlte V-Motoren, die beiden älteren Muster haben luftgekühlte Sternmotoren.
3. Alle SB-Muster (SB-2, -3) und das Muster AR-2 (SB-RK) werden unter der Sammelbezeichnung “SB” angesprochen.
Hauptunterscheidung am Boden:
Alle drei Muster haben flüssigkeitsgekühlte V-Motoren, aber verschiedene Kühleranordnung: SB-2 Stirnkühler, SB-3 Bauchkühler, AR-2 (SB-RK) Flügelkühler.
SB-2 und SB-3 haben einen Bugstand mit Schwenklafette, wobei jedes MG. sich in einem Längsschlitz in der Bugnase bewegt, das Muster AR-2 hat einen geschlossenen Bugstand mit einem MG. in Kugellafette.
Das Muster AR-2 hat Sturzflugbremsen, ähnlich wie die Ju-88, die beiden SB-Muster haben keine Sturzflugbremsen.
4. Die beiden Muster DB-3 und DB-3 F werden unter der Bezeichnung “DB-3” zusammengefaßt (zum Unterschied vom Muster TB-3 = “TB-3” Ansprache zweckmäßig “Dora B-3” und “Toni B-3”).
Beide Muster haben luftgekühlte Sternmotoren und unterscheiden sich nur durch die Art der Bugkanzel. Das Muster DB-3 hat eine stumpfe Kanzel mit einem MG.-Drehturm im Bug, das Muster DB-3 F hat eine langgestreckte Kanzel mit einem MG. in Kugellafette.
Alle anderen Muster sind mit ihrer Bezeichnung anzusprechen. Ähnlich sind sich noch die Muster SU-2 und R-10 sowie die beiden Muster PE-2 und JAK-4. Ein sicheres Unterscheiden dieser Muster wird nur bei einigen Fluglagen möglich sein. Ein gutes Unterscheidungsmerkmal bei den Mustern SU-2 und R-10 is die Lage des Führersitzes, der beim Muster R-10 ganz vorn, unmittelbar hinter dem Motor angeordnet ist, während er beim Muster SU-2 weiter zurücklegt. Bei der Ansicht von unten weist das Muster R-10 eine gerade Flügelhinterkante (Keilflügel) auf, während das Muster SU-2 einen Doppeltrapezflügel hat. Als Unterscheidungsmerkmal am Boden dient auch das Motorenmuster: R-10 mit einfachen Sternmotor, SU-2 mit Doppelsternmotor.
Die Muster PE-2 und JAK-4 sind in der Luft schwer zu unterscheiden, am Boden aber infolge der verschiedenen Bauweisen leicht zu erkennen. Das Muster PE-2 ist in Ganzmetallbauweise ausgeführt, das Muster JAK-4 in Gemischt-, der Flügel in Holzbauweise.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Die Kriegsflugzeuge der Feindmächte
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
223 printed sheets. The following pages are missing: 25b, 25d, 43, 61a, 73, 75, 76, 79, 80, 81.
Language
A language of the resource
deu
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MMolloyS[Ser#-DoB]-160212-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Wehrmacht. Luftwaffe
Conforms To
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Pending review
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
Description
An account of the resource
Contains photographs, silhouettes and drawings of British, American and Russian aircraft, showing dimensions, armament, armour plate or glass, and position of fuel tanks. Tables set out aircraft capabilities, including range and bomb loads.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Peter Schulze
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Germany. Wehrmacht Luftwaffe
B-17
B-24
B-25
Beaufighter
Blenheim
Boston
Catalina
Defiant
fuelling
Halifax
Halifax Mk 1
Halifax Mk 2
Hampden
Hudson
Hurricane
Lancaster
Lysander
Manchester
Mosquito
P-38
P-40
P-51
Spitfire
Stirling
Sunderland
Swordfish
Ventura
Walrus
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/368/10061/LDeytrikhA1381508v1.1.pdf
7a86e4150408629425043aa853221a9d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Deytrikh, Andrew
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Wing Commander Andrew Deytrikh (1921-2016, 1381508, 111248 Royal Air Force), his log books and three photographs. After training as a pilot in 1941, Andrew Deytrikh flew Spitfires on 66 Squadron at a number of locations until July 1944 when he joined Vickers Armstrong as a production test pilot. After the war he served on 604 Squadron Auxiliary Air Force flying Spitfires, Vampires and Meteors. He finished his air force career as a wing commander air attache in Finland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Andrew Deytrikh and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Deytrikh, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Deytrikh’s pilots flying log book. One
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Andrew Deytrikh, covering the period from 20 May 1941 to 1 February 1944. Detailing his flying training and operational flying. He was stationed at RAF Brough, RAF Montrose, RAF Grangemouth, RAF Portreath, RAF Zeals, RAF Ibsley, RAF Skeabrae, RAF Church Stanton, RAF Redhill, RAF Kenley, RAF Perranporth, RAF Hornchurch and RAF Southend. Aircraft flown were, Tiger Moth DH82, Master, Hurricane, Spitfire, Magister and Whitney Straight. He carried out convoy patrols, interceptions, army co-operation, scrambles, Fighter affiliation and bomber escorts with 66 squadron. Targets attacked, and bomber support targets were, Cherbourg, Caen, Abbeville, La Pallice, Amsterdam, Schipol Aerodrome, Courtrai, St Malo, Poix, Bryas, Gosnay, Beaumont-le-Roger, St Omer, Boulogne, Brest, Le Touquet, Brussels, Beauvais, Arras and Calais.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text. Log book and record book
Text
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Belgium--Brussels
England--Essex
England--Hampshire
England--Somerset
England--Surrey
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Abbeville
France--Arras
France--Boulogne-Sur-Mer
France--Brest
France--Caen
France--Calais
France--Cherbourg
France--Gosnay
France--La Pallice
France--Le Touquet-Paris-Plage
France--Poix-du-Nord
France--Saint-Malo
France--Saint-Omer (Pas-de-Calais)
Netherlands--Amsterdam
Scotland--Angus
Scotland--Orkney
Scotland--Stirlingshire
England--Cornwall (County)
Belgium--Kortrijk
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LDeytrikhA1381508v1
66 Squadron
aircrew
B-17
B-25
B-26
bombing
Boston
Flying Training School
Fw 190
Hurricane
Magister
Me 109
Me 110
Operational Training Unit
pilot
RAF Brough
RAF Hornchurch
RAF Kenley
Spitfire
Tiger Moth
training
Typhoon
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/615/11423/PNeechPRR1601.2.jpg
b18dcb33ac05d88b974e6778658b17de
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/615/11423/ANeechPRR180705.1.mp3
71c61783aa88de07a69697151f381f10
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neech, Peter Rowland Ruthven
P R R Neech
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neech, PRR
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Peter Neech (b.1925, 1851518 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a with 75 and 98 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GT: This is Thursday the 5th of July 2018 and I’m at the home of Mr Peter Neech born 7 January 1925 in West Hampstead, London, England. Peter joined the RAF on the 7 January 1943 at the age of eighteen, beginning his training to be an air gunner in the July of 1943. Once training completed and fully crewed, Peter completed a tour of Ops on 75 New Zealand Squadron with Stirlings and Lancasters in 1944. Then, after a break, joined 98 Squadron B25 Mitchells until VE Day. Peter continued his RAF career post war as an air gunner on Lincolns, Lancasters and with Coastal Command in Shackletons until retiring in 1956. Peter, thank you for allowing me to interview you for the IBCC Archives. Please tell me why and how you joined the Royal Air Force.
PN: Go ahead now. Yes, I joined because I was working in Hammersmith, London in a jewellers’ shop where my brother had originally worked until he joined the Air Force and so I worked there and the son of the manager came along one time and said ‘Oh I’ve really done it now. I’ve joined the, the I joined up, virtually, but it was in the Air Training Corps Cadets and I’ve joined the Cadets.’ And I said ‘Well that’s a good thing. I’ll join up’, and I joined the Hendon Squadron of the Air Training Corps and em I served with them from 1941 something like that until about 1943 when I joined the Royal Air Force on my eighteenth birthday and I started in as an air gunner on training and went through the training and eh at Westcott I selected, I saw eh ‘Hoot’ Gibson and his crew and I thought ‘They look a very steady crew to me.’ And eh he was third in line for picking out air gunners because they, they hadn’t that’s what they’d come to this country for, so I, he looked my way in between the third position and got in his crew. And from there on I was in ‘Hoot’ Gibson’s crew as a mid-upper gunner.
GT: Outstanding. So, so em, Peter, when you initially then joined as an air gunner at what bases and places did you train before you joined crew?
PN: Before I joined crew? I don’t think em
GT: You were in Scotland?
PN: Yes. Oh yes, I joined up in Scotland at Dalcross. RAF Dalcross and eh that was about three months and then it was there I passed out as a, as an air gunner. And I was very pleased with the little WAAFs there who very kindly sewed our tapes and brevvies on our uniforms. I wouldn’t have been able to do that but they could and they did. And so they sewed our uniforms up with ah the brevvies and the sergeant’s stripes and we were then sergeants. I came down to London then and eh on leave and eh got a, as I’d got a lot of kit, flying kit, I took a taxi home and eh the taxi stopped suddenly and I thought ‘What are you stopped here for?’ and he said ‘Well that’s where you wanted to be.’ And I looked around and true enough it’s my house had been eh quite badly damaged in a local bombing episode when night bombers had come over from Germany and bombed, laid a lot of bombs, and they had blown up a house only two doors, only two houses away from me, damaging my home quite severely. And eh but it got repaired and I went back then to eh a Wellington OTU at Westcott.
GT: So that was late 43 when you eh when you went home to find your house bombed. Was that German bombers or?
PN: German bombers.
GT: Not the German missiles? Not the V1s or the V2s?
PN: No, no, no. They came much later.
GT: Much later, okay. So, so then you arrived at 11 OT, OTU at Westcott in December 43.
PN: Yes.
GT: And, and what aircraft did you join up with there? Or did you go straight to the crew?
PN: No. Went in to Wellington bombers there. And eh I had picked out a crew at that time, ‘Hoot’ Gibson, and eh his crew, I became their mid-upper gunner. And we went from there to Stradishall because that was where they had fighting bombers and Stirling bombers, short Stirlings. And eh I had a mid-upper gunner there, and then we went on from there. And we had, there to [unclear] on to Lancasters and once again there was a mid-upper gunner turret, and then from there we went on to 75 NZ Squadron.
GT: So in Stradishall, and I’m looking at your notebook here and, and pretty much you only spent one month there on 1657 Conversion Unit.
PN: Yeah.
GT: Yeah. And that was, that was, now ‘Hoot’s’ crew,
PN: Yeah.
GT: Can you name, name the crew members and where they were from, please?
PN: I, I can, but eh I’ll, no, I’ll have to look it up.
GT: No problem.
PN: Because I have got them all, but em
GT: We, we’ll come back to that.
PN: Their all, apart from one Englishman, who came from Brentford in Essex, the engineer, flight engineer, and myself, we were the only two Englishmen. The rest were all New Zealanders, rear gunner, navigator, em pilot and em bomb aimer. They were all New Zealanders and em from various parts of New Zealand. But eh I can’t remember exactly without looking up, where they came from. I have got the information but eh I can’t remember it now.
GT: Understood.
PN: Who could, who could remember New Zealand words anyway, Maori words [emphasis] at that. [chuckles]. So there you go.
GT: [laughs] All right. So you, em you, you arrived in early April on 75 New Zealand Squadron at Mapel?
PN: Yes. That’s right.
GT: And eh, you eh you did the first month there all on Stirlings?
PN: Yes.
GT: And then you went to LFS at Feltwell in the April.
PN: And changed into Lancasters.
GT: Late April into Lancasters. What, what was the difference between the Stirling and the Lancasters to you?
PN: Size.[chuckles] I used to stand beside the wheel of a Stirling and I came just to the top of the wheel. The Lancaster was much smaller. It’s a fighting bomber but it’s much smaller somehow. Em in size. [coughs]. Quite a, quite a good size and eh quite a good, neat little bomber.
GT: And you were able to fly higher?
PN: Yeah. And it’s a fighting bomber just the same as the Stirling, but much smaller than the Stirling. Wasn’t the same size.
GT: What was your view like. Em was it, was it better on the Lancaster?
PN: Oh yes. It was a, it was a mid-upper gunner turret. Just the same. And em we, we flew on that, on that for twenty six operations. Somehow the tour on one of the things was thirty operations. Somehow or other I managed to do thirty one. [laughs] How I, how I managed to do that I do not know, cos I did. And then I went on to [unclear]
GT: Right. Well, let’s stay with Mapel for the moment. So with, with your gunnery actions and your thirty one operations, did you get any squirts away at the enemy?
PN: Em, occasionally we had eh little eh squirts at them. But on the last, especially the last day, one German aircraft came fairly [emphasis] close to us on the starboard side and eh I kept my eye very closely on him. Eh but he was just flying alongside me, it was towards the end of the war, and all of a sudden he dropped a wing towards us and I didn’t like that at all. Then we, all of us, the rear gunner and myself we fired at him and we shot him down. And that German plane went down and a few seconds later there was a little explosion on the ground and that was him gone.
GT: So you can claim one kill?
PN: One kill at least. Certainly.
GT: The aircraft type was a ?
PN: JU88. A JU88. He probably wasn’t doing any harm but he did, he did drop a wing towards us and I didn’t like that and eh so that’s when we attacked him. I shot him down.
GT: So, did you say to the skipper, ‘I’m Shooting.’ Or did he, did you have to get permission? Or did you just do it?
PN: We didn’t need any permission, only as we’ve opened and fired our guns away. He was close enough I suppose two or three hundred yards. Something like that. Not all that close but eh close enough for us. But he dropped a wing in our direction, I was, I was going and I was firing.
GT: The um, you, you have a little note in your logbook saying that you thought you might have been fired upon from, from below. Was that, was that a rocket?
PN: Oh yes, we did see rockets coming up but em we didn’t take much notice of them. We didn’t even know what they were [emphasis] at that time. So eh, we didn’t take much, we thought they were just anti-aircraft fire as far as I know. But they did come up and they went whistling past us and that was eh they didn’t hit us and that was eh quite happy that they were gone.
GT: So later on you thought they were rockets? Wow.
PN: Later on I did think they were rockets and we learnt about rockets and we suddenly thought probably they were rockets and they had come passed us.
GT: Now, there, there, later on 75 Squadron there were some under-gunners. Did you hear anything about under-gunners?
PN: Never heard. Never heard or saw any under-turrets. No, didn’t see any of those at all.
GT: Did you have any problems with em German aircraft coming up underneath you at night?
PN: Well, we watched, we didn’t eh, we got the skipper to bank over well to one side and we searched underneath very diligently either side, and a little later on we, the other side, we turned the other side there, and searched under that side. We searched underneath very diligently, very carefully and em made quite sure there was no one coming up underneath us to attack us from underneath.
GT: You had been warned about that type of German attack, had you?
PN: Yes, we knew about that kind of German attack. Yes. And eh we were well aware that they could attack from underneath and we took steps to make sure they didn’t attack us [emphasis] from underneath.
GT: So em, how many night operations did you complete?
PN: Em, thirty one, I think on 75.
GT: No, the night time ones though. You did night and day, and day operations.
PN: Oh well, I’d have to consult my log book on that.
GT: And so, for the, for the raids at night though you did not see the other Lancasters next to you?
PN: Em.
GT: Could you see them very well?
PN: Occasionally you’d see them come up close and they would, yes, I did see one come up and I thought he looked a little bit like a fighter and em so we kept a very close watch on him but eh he turned out to be a Lanc. In fact the wireless operator, he has a little radar screen of his own there. He was shouting and saying that there was a fighter coming up on the port side, and I told him to calm down because I had been watching that aircraft for a good ten minutes and I knew [emphasis] that it was another Lancaster and he couldn’t see that he could see just a dot on his screen. But I had been watching it well and knew that it was another Lancaster.
GT: You, you wouldn’t want to be shooting down one of your
PN: And I wouldn’t want to shoot at that. [emphasis]
GT: Did you hear of that ever happening? That other Lancasters shot other Lancasters?
PN: No, no, I didn’t hear any of those. But em there was a time when eh we got eh bombed on the airfield and a lot of air, oh well one aircraft came back with a [unclear] bombs on and he made a very bumpy landing, a very damaging bumpy landing and eh he had [unclear] bombs on board and they kept those bombs on because the aircraft was going to do the same old place again the next day. But about four o’clock in the morning that aircraft [unclear] bombs blew up and blew the aircraft to pieces and quite a number of other aircraft of A Flight as well. And eh they did a lot of damage, but the following morning the replaced an aircraft in the afternoon and we had an aircraft come in to complete the Squadron again.
GT: It was that quick they replaced them?
PN: They replaced. And funnily enough they came in and em landed at the eh the site for A Flight and out of the aircraft a young women got, a young women came out and she climbed out and she had flown this Lancaster on her own, [emphasis] without any other crew and brought it in from transport. She was an air transport, air transport auxiliary and she’d flown that Lancaster on her own and landed it and delivered it to eh to us. Which was an amazing [chuckles] thing when you think of it.
GT: Huge surprise huh?
PN: Well we looked around for the rest of the crew and she said that ‘I am the crew’ she said, ‘I am the crew.’ And that was it. She was the crew.
GT: And eh
PN: And there was no one else, no one else in the aircraft at all. They, they went in and they looked around to find the rest of the crew and eh they came back and they said, ‘Well there’s no one there.’ She said ‘Well, there won’t be. I am [emphasis] the crew.’ And she went back to Air Traffic Control and eh brought the aircraft in and that was it. She just landed it on her own.
GT: So those aircraft that blew up?
PN: Yes, there was quite a lot of them eh on A Flight and B Flight. They, they all suffered damage from this aircraft that blew up at four o’clock in the, well they had [unclear] bombs on. Four thousand pounders and they all blew up and they damaged a lot of the aircraft.
GT: And you, you were in bed at the time? Did you hear it, feel it?
PN: I did and I shot out of bed. We thought that we were being bombed and eh that we were being under attack. But eh
GT: Pretty much an own goal?
PN: Yes. But it wasn’t eh [mumbles] it wasn’t that at all.
GT: But no one was hurt. That was the [unclear]
PN: No. No.
GT: But you managed to find some bits and pieces.
PN: Yeah. I did and I’ve collected an axe, an escape axe that there was lying there. It was lying on the ground. So I captured that and eh I’ve got it to this day.
GT: You still have it and you’ve just showed it to me. So that’s, that’s very good. That was, that was normally where on the Lancaster? Where did that axe normally sit? What position?
PN: Well, there were two, there were two. There was one bolted on to the side, of the starboard side of the aircraft and there’s one on the rear end eh on the stick before they get into the rear turret, there’s another axe. So there are two axes on each aircraft. I’ve got one of them.
GT: And, and they’re identical. You don’t know which position this one came from?
PN: No. No, no. You don’t know. They’re both identical. But I got one of them. And I’ve got it to this day.
GT: So, in the mid-upper turret position em when you were seated in it you could spin yourself completely and just keep going round and round?
PN: You could, you could [mumbles] cos I did like that.
GT: And, and were the guns positioned so that you couldn’t shoot your own tail?
PN: Ah, yes. I did have a, an interrupter gear. The, the raise that the guns, when they came towards the fins as well, they would raise up automatically and down the other side so that they couldn’t fire at their own tail or rear of, rear of the fuselage or any part of the fuselage. When you turned them round to the front they would raise up above the fuselage and down the other side. They couldn’t eh, it’s an automatic interrupter gear.
GT: How many rounds did you have per gun available to you?
PN: Em, around about three thousand, I think.
GT: Each gun?
PN: Yes. Each gun. And the rear gunner, he had ten thousand, because he had a track going down the fuselage with rounds in them. So he had lots more ammunition than we had, but we had about three thousand per gun.
GT: So the tail gunner had four, three lot threes and you had two.
PN: Yes.
GT: Okay, and so where was your ammunition stored? In boxes underneath your guns?
PN: In a box at the side. Eh, ammunition boxes at either side that fed up to each gun. Yes. Em and the rear gunner he had a track leading down the fuselage and into his turret.
GT: So the guns were right next to your shoulders or your head?
PN: Em, well, I forget now but they were reasonably close to, yes they came up round one side and into the guns themselves.
GT: So you could feel them when they went off, yeah?
PN: Yes. Yes. Yes, they were quite close. But not too close.
GT: And you, you were sitting in the seat or were you suspended?
PN: It was a seat that swung up like em like a [mumbles] swing, that eh you swung it down whilst you were sitting in it. But to get out you would have to swing it up and then get down again to the floor of the aircraft.
GT: Was it comfortable? You might have had to have sit in that way for eight hours or so.
PN: Yes. Sometimes we did indeed sit there for quite a long period. It didn’t, it didn’t worry us. That’s eh that’s [unclear] rear ends. [chuckles]
GT: And, and there was no size restriction, any, any height of a person?
PN: No. No height, em sometimes it got a bit cold in the turret. I did at one time get em the perspex shot away and eh I was out in the cold so I slipped down into the turret with just my eyeballs just above the eh turret then where the perspex should have been and I just kept an eye on any, any other aircraft that might be following us.
GT: And that was in the Lancaster?
PN: Yes.
GT: And, and was this anti-aircraft shrapnel or bullets from another aircraft?
PN: Who knows? I don’t know. Just the perpex just vanished. It might have been shrapnel. It could’ve been shrapnel and it just vanished.
GT: And, and did you em suffer from frostbite on your face?
PN: No, fortunately not. I had a oxygen mask on of course and eh goggles, so eh we, we did get a bit of frostbite where it showed but nothing much.
GT: On the forehead?
PN: Yes. Nothing much. No, the goggles were there and the oxygen mask was there and that protected us a lot.
GT: Now eh if you saw a fighter coming in was it your job to tell the pilot to corkscrew?
PN: Yes. If I was, if I saw one, I did occasionally see one eh I was wait, wait till they got to six hundred yards and then having warned the skipper that we wanted to corkscrew to port or starboard as the case may be, eh I would give a running commentary and eventually ‘Corkscrew. Go.’ And he would then drop a thousand foot and roll and drop another thousand foot and roll and climb a thousand foot and roll and up into his normal position again and that was a corkscrew. And by then the fighter had gone. Don’t know where he’d gone, but he’d gone and eh glad that he’d gone. That’s it.
GT: And Hoot was really good at a corkscrew, was he?
PN: He was excellent. He was really excellent at corkscrewing. He used to await my orders and as I said ‘Go,’ he would go [unclear].
GT: You had em, a couple of different pilots. You had Timmons and Williamson as pilots near the end of your tour.
PN: Yes, because on D, the D Day I had been off sick ah with those ears. Infected eardrums.
GT: Ah, now you thought you had ear wax. [emphasis]
PN: I thought I had earwax. But in fact, the doctor, when he looked he [unclear] he said, ‘No, you’ve got collapsed eardrums.’ And I was in hospital for a while having that repaired and that’s why Hoot gives a carry on to this tour and finished early to me. And I had to then go with another crew to finish my tour ah with other, with other pilots, Williamson, Squadron Leader Williamson was one of them and Timmons eh he was the other one.
GT: And they were short of a gunner so you stepped in?
PN: They, they that’s it, I stepped in then. Yeah. I finished my tour that way.
GT: And of your thirty one trips was there any operation that was, that stood out for you besides shooting down an enemy aircraft? Was anything dang –
PN: Not that I can think of.
GT: Dangerous? Ack ack? Em.
PN: It was always dangerous. It was always dangerous. There was flak coming eh and large amounts of flak bursting all around eh but it didn’t hit us and while it didn’t hit us we were happy. And that was it. But there was lots of flak going on, on the ground and flak coming up through the surrounding air, airspace, lots of fires below, where our bombs were going and when the bomb aimer released the bombs it sounded as if someone was slapping the side of a car. If, if you put your arms out of the car and slapped the side door, that’s what it sounded like when the bombs were released. And they left the aircraft, they banged as they left the aircraft. And the bomb aimer said, ‘Bombs gone,’ and the, about twelve thousand pounds worth of bombs a lot of bombs. So the aircraft eh raised a bit, raised up a bit, being the, having lost that much weight, and so eh that’s how it went on. But I suppose we came to expect that.
GT: Now if we go back to your, your first month on 75 and, and at that time the Stirlings were, well certainly well overdue to be replaced on a, for a front line squadron, I believe 75 NZ was one of the last front line squadrons to be replaced with the Lancaster since they’d already been flying for nearly two years. That was a bit criminal of Bomber Command to let you guys carry on flying the Stirling on that op. But you, you did quite a few gardening trips.
PN: Yes.
GT: What was the gardening trips like compared to later on when you were doing high level bombing?
PN: Ah well, they were much lower and much [mutters] mainly in the places like [unclear] and down in the south of France we laid mines in the eh estuaries, where U-boats were likely to come and be harboured. That was mainly our job on those. Dropping these mines for our action against U-boats.
GT: And what eh, what did the German defences have against you?
PN: Oh, they were quite lively. They were quite lively. There were plenty of flak positions, but then I looked at them and I shot down their beams, straight down the em searchlight beams particularly and it’s quite interesting to see, all of a sudden, the searchlights would suddenly switch off very fast and all way down the flight path, that was because they were getting a good sprinkling of eh my guns. [chuckles].
GT: And you, you could give them a good squirt from your mid-upper position?
PN: Yes. Oh yes, we, yes, we banked, banked a bit over and gave a good squirt of the guns, the guns at the searchlight positions and the searchlights switched off very quickly and the anti-aircraft fire started up quickly. Yes.
GT: So did they have land and sea flak positions, ships, flak ships as well, did they?
PN: I didn’t see any flak ships but eh I imagine there were flak ships about. Yes. I didn’t see any though.
GT: And you said you lost a very valuable friend on one of those gardening trips?
PN: Yes. He was on the third operation to, his third operation to Kiel, laying sea mines like we were. We were on the same operation but em it was our fourth operation and his third operation and he was, they were laying sea mines and a fighter came up from a nearby fighter station and unfortunately shot them down and they were all killed. That was em Megson and his crew, yes, Megson, I think is.
GT: Was your bomb loads all the same on the trips you did? They stuck with cookies and GP bombs?
PN: Yes, about twelve thousand pounds, about twelve thousand pounds altogether. The cookies and em bombs.
GT: What was the furtherest [sic] trip that you remember doing? Was it, was it over to Stettin or Berlin?
PN: Stettin was a long way off. Yes, Stettin, Stettin was about fifty miles north, north east of Berlin. Quite a long way away and took about eight hours altogether.
GT: And that was your third to last op, so you were, you were stretching it right at the end of your tour. Weren’t you?
PN: Yes, that’s quite so.
GT: And, what was, what was the morale like on 75 Squadron for you guys?
PN: It was good and in fact I came back from that particular operation and eh expected to see eh my particular pal, Pat Butler, he was eh living in a, a bed next to, virtually next to me in our hut and people called the Committee of Adjustments came round and collected up all his uniform and they collected up quite a few of my bits too. [emphasis] I, and they were the Committee of Adjustments and they collected up uniform and things like that to, to put them away. And it took me quite some time to get back to them and get my own bits of uniform back [emphasis]. Because they collected them up as well.
GT: So that was a, that was a good idea to make sure before you went on an op all your stuff was packed away nice and neatly, yeah?
PN: Yes, yeah. And eh the Committee of Adjustments came along when someone was shot down and they eh collected all of their possessions. Any eh, if they were talking about a man, they didn’t want any letters from his girlfriend eh, falling into the wrong hands as it were. So the Committee of Adjustments had the job of collecting up any letters like that. Making sure they didn’t fall into the hands of wives and eh others arrangements.
GT: Very wise that.
PN: Yes.
GT: Very wise. During July of 44, 75 Squadron suffered seven aircraft loss in one night.
PN: Yes.
GT: Do you remember that?
PN: Yes. Yes, that was a trip to Hamburg, a trip to Hamburg, and it eh took us quite some time and it was em
GT: Were you on that raid?
PN: Yes, I was on that raid.
GT: Particularly, specifically?
PN: Yes, on the
GT: 20th of July.
PN: Yes, yes, on the Hamburg raid and it was quite a, quite a lively bombing mission but we fortunately got back, we got damaged, we got damaged as we did very often on, on them. And em but we, we got back okay. And we came to land alright. But that was quite a hairy operation, to Hamburg.
GT: And to lose seven in one night must have been pretty devastating to the rest of the Squadron, yeah?
PN: Well, it was em it wasn’t out of the ordinary, we didn’t think too much about it. We, we kept a, we kept a, we expected losses, just as we expected everything else and eh what came, came along. That’s it. That’s part of squadron life. So that’s what you had to do. You might get eh, you might get more [emphasis] than seven going sometimes. Who knows? It was the luck of the draw.
GT: Who was your skipper, eh sorry, your commanding officer, on 75 at that time you were there?
PN: Maxie. Wing Commander Max.
GT: And what was he like?
PN: He was a good bloke, yes a good bloke and em we all liked him. And he used to come round to all the aircraft and have a little chat with them, mainly with the pilots and those others. Before they, before they taxied and went off. He used to drive round and have a little chat with them. Wish them good luck I suppose. But he didn’t [unclear] [chuckles] gunners as well. But he didn’t have time for the gunners. We were there that was all right.
GT: Wing Commander Max’s medal group was donated by his wife to the 75 New Zealand Squadron Association.
PN: Was it really?
GT: And they’re currently on display at the Wigram Airforce Museum in Christchurch, New Zealand, but they are, the property of 75 Squadron Association of New Zealand, so, so just to let you know that em, your, your ex-Commanding Officer’s medals are on display.
PN: On display. Good old Maxie. He was a good bloke, a good bloke was Max. Now I got em I got another set of medals, a second set for one of my sons who is now unfortunately deceased. So there’s a set of my medals, identical to my medals which are going spare, which eh, I would be quite happy to donate to eh.
GT: You eh, you and I can have a chat off microphone.
PN: Yeah. Yes.
GT: Thank you, Peter. Okay, so your, your time on 75 though, you must have gone to some pubs?
PN: What did you say?
GT: Some pubs.
PN: Well,
GT: Go and have a beer or two somewhere?
PN: Very occasionally, I wasn’t a, I wasn’t really a drinking man at all. I didn’t, I didn’t like the stuff really, if the truth were known. I would go to a restaurant to have a nice meal occasionally. But I wasn’t really a beer man, I didn’t like beer. Nasty stuff. [laughter]
GT: Cos there was, there was three main pubs, the Chequers and the Three Pickerels in your area.
PN: Yes, we went to them occasionally but very occasionally, but I wasn’t, I would eh go on the, be there for a, perhaps a few minutes and then nip off back home to bed.
GT: So eh, so did you go to any of the churches or cathedrals around Mepal?
PN: No, I don’t think I did.
GT: There was quite a few of them around there.
PN: Yes, there was Ely, of course, Ely Cathedral.
GT: And there’s Sutton, one at Sutton as well.
PN: Sutton there, yes.
GT: Now, the one at Sutton has eh, the complete casualty em, list of all airmen killed on 75 Squadron.
PN: Have they really?
GT: And they turn the page every day and I do think a copy was made and that is in the Chapel of St. Marks, on my old base, base at [unclear] and the chaplain on that base turns the page every day as well.
PN: Oh, yes, good.
GT: And so, so all your colleagues that were lost in the five years of 75 New Zealand Squadron RAF are remembered every day.
PN: So, Pat Butler’s name would be among them. He was a mid-upper gunner, the same as myself, and he was lost on his third operation to Kiel. Laying sea mines in Kiel canal.
GT: His name will certainly be remembered in this, this book, for sure.
PN: Yes, he was a great bloke.
GT: So next to you was at Mepal, after 75, there was 115 Squadron.
PN: Yes. that’s right. Witchford, on the road to Ely. Yes, they were there. I didn’t know much about them. Passed them on the road there. Often they were going, they were taking off at the same, much the same time as we were. On operations. But I didn’t know much about them.
GT: They, they were very unfortunate, at least on one night, had one aircraft shot down by a Messerschmitt 14, eh as it was coming in to land. Did 75 Squadron have any trouble with night fighters stooging around whilst you were coming in?
PN: We did hear, we did hear, have them occasionally and we had to keep a very close watch out and I can’t recall any being shot down. But eh I believe it did happen on more than one occasion.
GT: As the gunner, was it your responsibility to clean and fit the guns, or was that the armourers?
PN: No, I did mine, I did my guns. I did. The armourers could, would do them, but I, I used to do mine, look after my own guns and cleaned my own perspex, to make sure that my perspex was cleaned, in the top turrets.
GT: How did you clean your outside perspex? Did you have a door through the canopy or did you have to get out on the fuselage?
PN: I used to get out. There wasn’t, I think, [mumbles] there wasn’t a place where you could get out on to the front of the fuselage and there was em perspex polish that I could use, and I did, to make sure that my perspex was cleared and clean on the inside as well. If there was a scratch, the searchlight would hit us, a scratch and would split [unclear] effect. It was no good, so I made sure my perpex was clear.
GT: Like a prism mm.
PN: Mmm.
GT: With your training that you did as an air gunner eh, did that, eh when you look back at sitting in a Lancaster turret and doing operations, did that training, was that good enough, did that do the job to prepare you?
PN: Oh yes. Oh yes. Em and I used to keep very close watch on all those around me. I used to spin the turret around and make sure I saw, and I used to ask the skipper occasionally as we heard, to dip his wings down one way, or dip down the other way, so that I could search underneath the aircraft in case there was anything creeping up underneath. But eh that’s how you got on.
GT: And you had good coordination with the tail gunner? Did you talk a lot between you?
PN: We didn’t talk a lot but eh if occasionally em it was necessary to confer we used to. But we didn’t talk a lot really.
GT: And if you
PN: We were very good friends on the ground.
GT: Good yeah.
PN: Yes, we were very good friends on the ground [unclear] and myself were great pals on the ground.
GT: What was the radio talk like? Was it ‘skipper’, ‘rear gunner’, ‘mid upper’? You didn’t say your names did you?
PN: No, didn’t say your names but say, say your position. ‘Mid upper to skipper’, or something of that sort. And he would say, ‘Go ahead, go ahead mid upper’, and you would pass a message to him.
GT: And was, Hoot, Hoot was the flight sergeant em when you joined up together as a crew and then he was commissioned, so
PN: Yeah.
GT: So, so did the commissioning matter to you guys?
PN: No, not at all.
GT: You were a senior NCO and a, and a pilot officer or an officer.
PN: Yes, didn’t make, didn’t make any difference. He was still Hoot Gibson.
GT: But you couldn’t go and drink together in the same mess?
PN: Oh no, no, no. No. We had that, there was that difference. He was a commissioned officer after all. But it didn’t make that difference.
GT: And you were a flight sergeant at that time?
PN: Yes.
GT: Did you want your, did you want a commission as well?
PN: Ah yes I did, but eh but for some reason I didn’t go for it.
GT: You weren’t offered it?
PN: Yes. I can’t remember what exactly it was. [unclear] he was getting commissioned.
GT: As a tail gunner? Wow.
PN: Yes, he became commissioned. But I can’t remember just exactly the circumstances. He was like that later on he became commissioned.
GT: So, your time with 75, em and, and you thoroughly enjoyed?
PN: Oh yes. Oh yes. I was there until I done my, how I, how I had to do thirty one operations I don’t know but I did and I got posted away to, funnily enough, back to Dalcross where I’d done my training.
GT: Your training. So, so when you were posted, what did they say? ‘Right you’re off!’ No fanfare. Just
PN: Oh no.
GT: Called you into the office and said, ‘So right, you’re next, you’re leaving.’ Is that it?
PN: Oh yes. Yes. Just you posted. Yes.
GT: And that would be at the end of eh August?
PN: It would, yes, I think it would.
GT: Your last operation was August the 25th and that completed thirty one ops. You had a hundred and thirty six hours during the day and a hundred and twenty hours of night and em that’s a pretty, that’s a pretty great record there Peter. So your, your log book states that you moved on to Dalcross at 2 AGS and there you were flying in Martinets. [emphasis]
PN: Yes, that’s right.
GT: What were they [emphasis] like?
PN: [chuckles] They were a fighter aircraft, they were like a fighter aircraft as far as I was concerned. But we used to em, had to virtually em they had a real [unclear] of you might call cords really. Then we had to almost stretch out of the aircraft to thread through pulleys and fix them on to the drogue for other aircraft to shoot at.
GT: And so the Martinet was a drogue towing aircraft?
PN: That’s right. Yes.
GT: So you didn’t deploy the drogue until you were in the air?
PN: That’s right. And then you had to bend and you were half way out of the, of the aircraft hooking the drogue on.
GT: This was a hole in the floor of the aircraft?
PN: Yes. Yes.
GT: So how long was the hoars of the rope? Eh, the
PN: About eight hundred, eight hundred yards or something like that.
GT: Was that a safe, safe distance?
PN: Yeah. Safe enough. Yes. Safe enough. Yes.
GT: And what were the gunners and eh, of the aircraft taking the drogue?
PN: They, they did occasionally fire and hit the drogue towing aircraft thinking it was, thinking that was what they had to aim at.
GT: That’s friendly fire.
PN: Yeah. They, they used to do a quick dive away then, but eh mainly that was alright and you could tell in the drogue you could count up the bullet holes because the bullets had got paint under them of some sort. They were coloured.
GT: Did they have a fight over who, who was, what hole was [unclear] [chuckles]
PN: No, I don’t think so.
GT: All good. And therefore you went, that was in eh November?
PN: Yes.
GT: And so you had a little break in between leaving end of August, so you had September, October off?
PN: Yes.
GT: Where did, what did you do there? Did you, did you go back home for a bit?
PN: Eh, I went, I did, I was, I can’t remember exactly what I did.
GT: But you did have a bit of a rest though didn’t you?
PN: But em anyway, I made sure that eh I counted the months and eh while there was only four months and then I went back on the Squadron again.
GT: Aah. Okay, so, so that was 2 AGS at Dalcross and we’re still on the Martinet and Martinet right through to January and eh and in February you moved on to Number 2 GSU on Mitchells.
PN: That’s right. Yes.
GT: As an air gunner, so you were, you were ramping up on the B25.
PN: That’s right.
GT: Were you the mid upper gunner for there too?
PN: Rear gunner.
GT: Rear gunner on the B25.
PN: Rear gunner on the, yeah. And eh you didn’t have a seat to sit on, you sort of eh, virtually on your knees, half on your knees, half sat, sat on the sloping seat. Not a very comfortable position at all. And you had two point fives I think in the rear turret.
GT: Now, the point five was a little bit more heavier than the three nought threes.
PN: It was indeed.
GT: More punch and distance?
PN: Yes, and the you see what happened.
GT: Well now, obviously for the recording eh Peter had a bit of a close escape here, and I’m holding a fifty cal shell eh minus the head and eh there’s a big hole in the side of it. Peter, what happened to you there and this was in the rear turret of a B25, yeah?
PN: Yes, that’s right and it was quite, that, it was quite close to, the bomb was quite close to my shoulder and em the armourer, when we came back, I didn’t know about it, while we were airborne, but the armourer came to me and said, ‘Would you like this as a souvenir?’ and at that time it had a shrapnel inside of it and the, the bullet too. Em but unfortunately, while examining it, my son, the little bit of shrapnel that had caused the hole, put it in the dust, in the ashtray and it got lost. And eh so I don’t, I, I searched for the, I think it was about ten days afterwards that I found it was missing and I searched for the, that little bit of shrapnel, but I couldn’t find it, unfortunately.
GT: Well, it’s very fortunate, [emphasis] for you Peter, that you’ve been able to keep the shell and eh it also has an official RAF photograph tucked with it.
PN: And the [unclear] at the bottom end you notice that it hadn’t been fired.
GT: That’s true, yeah, yeah. The firing element at the base there’s eh, there’s no pin impression so that’s, that’s a special piece of history right there for you.
PN: Yes.
GT: Fabulous. Alright Peter, now, you, you’re suffering badly from eh, from your knees.
PN: Arthritis.
GT: And arthritis, but [emphasis] you were talking to me earlier about your kneeling position of a B25 rear gunner.
PN: Yes.
GT: And can you attribute your current problems with knees back to that?
PN: I wouldn’t be at all surprised. I wouldn’t be at all surprised because you were sort of half on your knees, half sitting on a sloping, a sloping seat.
GT: Gosh.
PN: And it could well have been that em that was the cause of the arthritis.
GT: Well you started flying B25s in March 45 and eh you completed more operations in, in the end of April. Now your trips here in your log book for your Mitchell flights are anywhere between one and, and one and two and three quarter hours. So you were flying from em 98 Squadron. Where were they based and, and where did you go from there for more ops?
PN: Now. 98. Yes, I, oh I can’t remember the dates. Is it not in the book? On top of the table? The places that we went to? I do know the name of the aerodrome but I can’t remember it.
GT: Farfield. So you, so your log book is very well presented, of course, and you’ve got a lot of trips there across to Bremen, em certainly into Germany em and beyond. So, so that’s very impressive. So during your, your flights in the Mitchells, did you have any opposition from the German em Luftwaffe?
PN: Em, we did, and eh I can’t remember the exact details, but we, we eh got flak, flak as much as anything. We had to dodge the flack because we’d got anti-aircraft fire bursting near us, a lot of anti-aircraft fire bursting near us.
GT: How many bombs did you carry?
PN: Eh, oh, I couldn’t say.
GT: It wasn’t a very big bomb load for a B25?
PN: Eh, no, about, about eight or eight or so five hundred pounders probably. I’m not quite sure.
GT: And this was an RAF squadron flying American aircraft?
PN: Second Tactical Aircraft, yes, Second tact.
GT: So what was it like flying an American designed aircraft compared to the English Stirling and Lancaster?
PN: Uncomfortable.
GT: Uncomfortable.
PN: Yeah. Uncomfortable.
GT: It didn’t go very –
PN: On you knees, you see. You were on your knees and the seat sloped and you had your bottom on the, on the seat, and you were half on your knees and eh it wasn’t a comfortable position, wasn’t a very comfortable position at all. But there you are, that was, that was hard luck. And em we did quite a, did quite a few to Bremen if I remember rightly, quite a few to eh yes, the city of Bremen and em they were quite lively, a lot of flak coming up.
GT: It must have been low level, was it?
PN: Em, not really low level.
GT: Oh, no? You were still up high?
PN: Still, still, yes, fairly high I think. I can’t quite remember these details now.
GT: And what was your crew like? For the B25s
PN: There was about five members of a crew in the B25s.
GT: All English?
PN: As far as I know, yes. Ah, yes I think so, yes. They were. Yes. I do mention their names.
GT: Now your, your last operation with eh 98 Squadron was the end of April and then you moved through as passengers in May and you, you began a second trip, tour in, in June as the rear gunner and eh also did some trips, through, as passengers to look over Germany and in July. So you certainly got around for a little bit after that.
PN: Yes.
GT: So tell us a bit more about the eh, okay, the –
PN: I was stationed in Germany.
GT: Ah, there you go. So VE Day, what happened with you on 98 Squadron on VE Day and what did you do after?
PN: So, yes, I remember VE day.
GT: You went to Germany after that was it, directly, or did you stay in England?
PN: [mumbles] Difficult to remember. I think I was, I think I was stationed in Germany at that time. I think, yes, I think, I can remember we were living in tents and all of a sudden the CO of that Squadron popped down and said, ‘It’s all over, chaps. It’s all over!’ and [unclear] drinking his own champagne. And didn’t invite us in at all. And that was the end of the war. And we were in Germany at that time, living in tents. Aachen [?] Yes.
GT: Did you stay on?
PN: We went to Brussels. We took, we took, we went by an aircraft. We took an aircraft into Brussels, but I didn’t think much to that. And eh visited a short time and we came back, back to Aachen [?] again, and stayed there. Didn’t think much to it. It was all over as far as we were concerned and that was it.
GT: So did you want to stay in the RAF? Or did you look at demobbing or?
PN: No, I was demobbed soon after and em I did various civilian jobs and eh basically I got sick of them and went back into the Airforce again after a fairly short time.
GT: As an air gunner?
PN: Yes, eh I was an air gunner instructor this time. I was instructing.
GT: And your log book says in 1951 you were at 230 OCU in Scampton?
PN: Yeah.
GT: In Scampton?
PN: Yes.
GT: As an air gunner exercise so em that was from February
PN: I was instructing then.
GT: And what aircraft were you with?
PN: I think Lincolns.
GT: Lincolns?
PN: I think Lincolns and then Shackletons and finally Neptunes. Yes.
GT: Yes, you have a lot of entries here from being in Lincolns. What was the Lincoln like compared to the Lancaster?
PN: Bigger. And that’s all, apart from that. [mumbles] Yes, they were bigger. A bigger version of the Lancaster.
GT: And the Lincolns had fifty cal? Half inch? Did the Lincolns have the bigger gun systems?
PN: As far as I know, yes, I think so.
GT: And you moved on from three nought threes. Yeah?
PN: Yes.
GT: And then you moved on to 9 Squadron at Binbrook?
PN: Yes, at Binbrook.
GT: And you become crew, you become part of a crew then, were you then? Is that what you were doing?
PN: I think so, I can’t remember. It’s difficult to remember. It’s a long time ago, as you know.
GT: No, that, that’s fine there, Peter. So we’re just moving through and eh you, you were em just working through on the Lincolns right through to 1952 and em with, with your changes you moved into Coastal Command?
PN: Yes, Shackletons. Oh, yes, low flying over the sea doing searches and things like that.
GT: What was the Shackleton like, as an aircraft to fly in?
PN: It was much, it was something like, something like a Lancaster but fatter. You know, it was a bigger, bigger fuselage than the other one. It was much like a, much like a Lincoln.
GT: Now what em, what caused you to finish up in the RAF then? You’d had enough again do you think or?
PN: Yes, yes I did instructing for a while. I was instructing on various subjects and then I came out, I think, I think, I came out and took, took my pension. To get a pension and em I came out and got a pension.
GT: Well, some of your last entries in your log book eh Peter, are at Kinloss em with, with Shacks and eh and then eh you’ve got a P2 Neptune entry here as well.
PN: Eh [mumbles]
GT: In mid 56.
PN: Yes, it was actually the islands, Benbecula for a while. That’s not even mentioned in there, I think, but I was [pauses] just at Benbecula for a while, which is one of the Outer Hebridean islands. But not for any reason.
GT: Yeah. So then you moved down to Singapore for a while. Tell me a, tell me a little bit about that, please, because that was in the mid, early sixties there when you went to Singapore.
PN: Ah yes. Yes.
GT: Was that with the RAF?
PN: Yes, oh yes. And em, Singapore. I think I had a crew there.
GT: And you were doing the administrative stuff? You were?
PN: Oh yes, I was doing admin as well, yes. Instructing em, instructing.
GT: And there was a [unclear]
PN: [unclear] yes. Um I think I was doing instructing as well as doing –
GT: And so that was after the confrontation eh had finished?
PN: More or less I think, yes. Instructing em discip. I was a flight sergeant discip there too. Yes. Various jobs yeah.
GT: Various jobs. Now, you, you were married and had children by then?
PN: Yes, I had been married, I got married in 1962, think it was 62 and unfortunately em my first wife died in 1969. She got breast cancer and she died in 1969. But see we had a tour in Singapore and she quite enjoyed that. So she did have some good life there.
GT: Nice. And you moved back to the UK then?
PN: And we came back in 1966 and then eh we were, she was ill for two or three years and she died in 1969.
GT: No children?
PN: No children. Well, previously we had had four, four sons but long before you know and the eldest which is the one who’s birthday it is today, they were born 50, he was born in 54, 1954 and the last one was born in 1958. Yeah.
GT: Pretty tough to lose their mum a little bit later. And so then you, you remarried later?
PN: Yes. Two or three years afterwards. Yes.
GT: And so, you, you’ve lost two em
PN: And I’ve lost her too.
GT: Several years ago.
PN: Yes.
GT: And, and what did you do after the RAF, Peter? How did, how did that go?
PN: Em I did do, em, what did I do? I engraved [?] a house, do something, engraved [?] a house. I forget now. I forget
GT: Peter, you’ve, you’ve got a lot of memories here and a lot of archives from your time
PN: Yeah.
GT: Especially with Bomber Command.
PN: Yes.
GT: And that’s pretty special. And eh now I’ve known you for some years now and popped in to see you from my trips from New Zealand here to the UK so I’m eh, I’m quite honoured today really to sit and chat with you about your [emphasis] Bomber Command time and your life, a bit of history. This recording will go to the Bomber Command archives and eh and I know that they will gratefully receive your information and your recollections and memories.
PN: Sketchy as they are.
GT: Sketchy as they are. No problem at all, no problem for us, Peter. Is there something that you would like to make one last comment about Bomber Command? Your time, the war, that had to be done, that could have been done any different?
PN: I don’t think so. I was very lucky to have eh, to have a skipper, Hoot Gibson. He was a great, a great pal and a great flyer [coughs]. And we got on very well with him, and the crew for that matter. It was very unfortunate that the navigator, Bill [unclear] unfortunately, he was in a hurry to get home to New Zealand, chose to hitchhike with an American crew, which crashed.
GT: Wrong, wrong choice.
PN: Killing them all. Yes, killing them all. Unfortunately.
GT: Peter, look em I think it’s fabulous of you to be able to sit with me today. Thank you for this interview and it’s been a pleasure being in your company and presence in your house today and I’m gonna say thank you from the IBCC for your recollections. And eh I think we, we can close the interview now if that’s okay with you.
PN: I think so, yes. Sketchy as it might be in places. You’ll have to pick out the bits and pieces. Of course, I mean I’m ninety, getting on for ninety four and memory does tend to get a little bit sketchy at times at that age. But I’ve done my best. Tried to remember the best I can.
GT: Thank you for your service to your King, your country and now your Queen. It is much appreciated. Thank you.
PN: Okay. Good.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Peter Rowland Ruthven Neech. Two
Creator
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Glen Turner
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-07-05
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ANeechPRR180705, PNeechPRR1601
Conforms To
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Pending review
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Format
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01:08:10 audio recording
Language
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eng
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cambridgeshire
Temporal Coverage
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1943
Description
An account of the resource
Peter was born on the 7th of January 1925, in West Hampstead, London. He worked in a jewellers in Hammersmith and left his job to join the air cadets at RAF Hendon from 1941 to 1943. On his eighteenth birthday, he joined the RAF to begin training as an air gunner, this took him to RAF Dalcross, Scotland, where he completed his training in July 1943. On arriving home on leave, he found his family home damaged after a German bombing attack. In December 1943, Peter trained on Wellingtons and Stirlings at No.11 Operational Training Unit, RAF Westcott, where he was picked to join 75 Squadron, as a mid-upper gunner by Sergeant Donald George ‘Hoot’ Gibson. After flying Stirlings for his first month, the crew trained for Lancasters at 1651 Conversion Unit, 75 Squadron then moved to RAF Mepal, and in April 1944 they converted to Lancasters. Peter completed thirty-one operations with 75 Squadron. In August, he returned to RAF Dalcross, to fly in Martinets which towed targets for aircraft practice. After taking a short break, he joined 98 Squadron in March 1945, and flew B-25’s as a rear gunner until VE Day. He took part in gardening operations, which involved low flying to drop sea mines on estuaries in France to prevent U-Boat attacks. Towards the end of the war, Peter shot down a Ju 88, after it came too close, his only claimed kill of the war. Peter continued his flying career with the RAF post-war, as an air gunner with Lincolns, Lancasters, and Shakletons, and then joined Coastal Command at RAF Benbecula until he retired in 1956. In the 1960s, Peter moved to Singapore to be an instructor, married in 1962, but his wife passed away in 1969 and he remarried a few years later.
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Jennie Mitchell
Tricia Marshall
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
11 OTU
1651 HCU
1657 HCU
75 Squadron
98 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
B-25
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Lancaster
Lincoln
Martinet
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
RAF Dalcross
RAF Mepal
RAF Westcott
searchlight
Shackleton
Stirling
training
Wellington
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1250/16452/PNealeETH15010060.2.jpg
5acb8c1670158a130ffb7530ee379bc7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Neale, Ted. Album
Description
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30 items. An album of photographs taken during Ted Neale's service in the Mediterranean theatre.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-31
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Neale, ETH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Formation of B-25 Mitchells
Description
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An air to air image of 13 B-25s flying at low level. Some numbers visible - 46, 87.
Format
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One b/w photograph on an album page
Type
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Photograph
Identifier
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PNealeETH15010060
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United States Army Air Force
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
B-25
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1258/17167/PBarronAJK1901.1.jpg
f6b3bac684a11f7127d93f5570e15270
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1258/17167/ABarronAJK190408.1.mp3
c98cabad42ac3ab3f8456bba3c8cb148
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Barron, Andrew
Andrew James Kelton Barron
A J K Barron
Description
An account of the resource
Three oral history interviews with Flight Lieutenant Andrew Barron (1923 - 2021, 163695 Royal Air Force) He flew 38 operations as a navigator in 223 Squadron at RAF Oulton flying B-24s.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2019-05-10
2018-04-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Barron, AJK
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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NM: So, my name is Nigel Moore, it’s Monday the 8th of April and I am with Andrew Barron, in his house and he’s going to talk to me about his time in 223 Squadron as a navigator. So Andrew, can you start by telling me about your childhood and growing up? Where did you, where were you born and go to school?
AB: Well, yes, I was born in Chichester, I mean that’s a matter of fact, but my father was, as far as I know, he was a civil servant at the time. He’d fought in the First World War, he’d, he was born in 1893 and so at the outbreak of the First World War he was about eighteen or nineteen and I think he was in the Territorials then, and anyway he fought there, he was sent to Mesopotamia and we never talked about that, you know. I don’t think veterans of the First World War did talk about their experiences any really, much more than veterans of the Second World War: I think it’s taken the interest of our grandchildren really to spark off interest, you know. They’ve started taking an interest. Michael my son in law took us on a jaunt to the Western Front about twenty years ago and I was surprised at the number of young people, teenagers and early twenties and I think this is what has sparked our interest. As far as I am concerned, I’d been a student at the City and Guilds Engineering College in 1941 ‘42 when I joined up and prior to that I’d had an interesting career. My maternal grandfather had been in the Royal Navy, he’d been an engineer officer and I’ve often wondered since if his rather smart uniform and everything inspired my mother to push me into a naval career because when I was thirteen, thirteen and a half I was enrolled in the Royal Naval College, Dartmouth to become a naval officer. I had quite a, quite a pleasant time there really. We were, I’d, my father had been posted up to Wolverhampton in the early 1920s, I was born in 1923, I was about, I think about two years old when the family moved to Wolverhampton and I was essentially brought up in Wolverhampton and without realising it, I acquired a bit of a Midland twang, in fact enough that we were formed in to, we were, at Dartmouth, we were formed into tutorships, three of us would be assigned to a tutor for our education, such as it was, and my, one of my co-cadets, Charlie Badcock put the nickname on me of “Oiky Barron” [laugh] cause he had, he had picked up this twang. Obviously my parents either weren’t aware of it or didn’t assign any significance to it because, or I’m sure they would have done something about it. I often wonder whether it had any bearing upon my future career. Anyway, I spent three, three and a half years at Dartmouth and I got involved in some silly escapade. Somebody decided to pinch a rifle from the cadets’ armoury at Dartmouth and I happened to know a bit more about the, the makeup of the British standard military weapon at the time, the short magazine Lee Enfield, and they wanted these one or two guns that they’d pinched, they wanted them stripped down I think, so that they could hide them away more easily. Well Muggins knew a bit more about the rifle than any of the rest of them, so it fell upon me, and the result was of course it was very rapidly discovered and the miscreants must have, must have blabbed the name of their collaborators because I was up before the Commanding Officer in no time at all and the result of that was that in the spring of 1940 the Admiralty informed my parents that they didn’t think I was suitable material for a naval officer and so I was ejected. And this again was a subject which was never discussed at home. The war was on for one thing and my mother and young brother who was about three years old at the time, were evacuated to Wales where we rented a farmhouse for the holidays and so it was, it wasn’t a no subject, but if my mother had been on the spot she would no doubt would have probed my frailties, but she wasn’t, so she never did and father was, of course, commuting up to London. We lived in, we moved to Dulwich by the way just before the war and so nobody made any enquiries. My father just went to work and the first thing he did was to put me in to a crammers establishment in Holborn, the University Tutorial College in Red Lion Square, which just off Holborn to get my matriculation so that I could get into university and that duly happened and in the autumn of 1940 I was enrolled in the City and Guilds Engineering College to get a degree in Mechanical Engineering. I don’t know what I’d have done with it when I’d got it, but again the war was on so nobody knew what anybody was going to do with anything, in fact. And when I got to the City and Guilds I discovered that the University Air Squadron was still a going concern although they no longer did any flying training, they, if you joined the university air squadron at, in London you joined the air force as a u/t pilot, which I did in November 1941 and that had two advantages. One was that I acquired the airman’s number of 1398741 and having a 1 3 number had some advantages in the following few months and we did the ITW – the Initial Training Wing – which was the square bashing and all that sort of thing and so come the summer of 1942, by which time I had twice failed the, what was it, the not the, it was the, oh god I’ve forgotten what the examination was called, but it was the intermediate BSE. I suppose it was the equivalent of the higher, the higher matriculation, anyway it was the entry exam for the university and I failed that twice. It was in the days before they had – hm, what you call it – before it was, you had modular examinations; you took the whole lot and if you failed one subject or a couple of subjects you had to take everything again. And one, I think the first year I failed physics and passed chemistry and the second year I passed chemistry and failed physics, so I finished up in the July of 1942 without any academic qualification and I was called for the colours and by then they were all 1 8s so the fact that I was a 139, that was a bit of a one up to the other erks. Plus the fact that we’d been issued with the standard RAF uniforms with the standard brass buttons, not the chrome ATC buttons which we should have had as we were part of the Air Training Corps, and being a diligent young man, I’d polish my buttons very, very diligently, so diligently in fact that the raised portions of the eagles on my brass buttons had holes in them [laugh]. The drill corporals thought that was terrific you know; greatly admired that was. So there I was at ACRC, the Air Crew Receiving Centre, or arsey tarsey as it was generally know, as a, promoted to leading aircraftsman ready for the next stage. And the other thing I discovered that during that time the rules had changed and I was no longer a u/t pilot, I was a u/t pilot/navigator/bomb aimer, PNB. They changed the rules so that, you know, if you failed they had a wider field to put you into and I was posted, I spent about a fortnight I think at St John’s Wood and then I was posted down to Brighton to another receiving centre. I think that one was called, you know, I’ve got the documents there if you want the actual proper terminology, but it was the, I think it was an Aircrew Distribution Centre. And we were a very polyglot lot that was in our squad, we had several soldiers who’d re-mustered to the air force. They got fed up with, with you know, being soldiers doing nothing in Britain and there was some [emphasis] re-mustered aircrew. There was one chap I remember, Douglas, D.E. Batten who claimed to have been the rear gunner sole survivor of a Manchester which was shot down over Belgium in presumably 1940, late ‘40 or ‘41, or would have been ‘42, yes ‘42. I looked him up in Chorley’s encyclopaedic list of all the Bomber Command casualties and there was no mention of this chap’s name, so he, probably another line shooter who was, who just decided to change his trade, but yeah, I spent about a fortnight at Brighton, it was very pleasant, it was a nice summer, 1942, sunny and that. We didn’t apprehend the danger from the Messerschmitt 109’s which were sent over to strafe the gasworks just three or four miles up the road from where we lived in Brighton. So we carried on and then after about a couple of weeks I was sent to Sywell in Northamptonshire which was an Elementary Flying School, Flying Training School of the RAF’s to be graded as to our suitability for pilot navigator or bomb aimer. You did about twelve or fourteen hours in Tiger Moths and I emerged as a suitable candidate for pilot training. And then after that it was up to Heaton Park and I arrived at Heaton Park, Manchester, in about middle or late October, September, yes, September 1942, and to await posting to some school for pilot training. Well in fact I mouldered at Heaton Park for about five months because the rumour had it that one of the troopers had been sunk with great loss of life and so there was a hold up on cadets being shipped away abroad. But in fact what we didn’t know of course all the training was being held up to give priority to the troops being shipped to North Africa for the invasion of West and North Africa. So it wasn’t in fact until April 1943 that I was posted out of Heaton Park. In fact I was posted out twice. I was there all kitted up in my webbing and everything else and when my name was called out with one or two others and I was told I was off the draft and I was to go back to me billet. Well, no explanation was given, and like everywhere else at the time, you weren’t told if you didn’t need to know, you weren’t told and if you asked you were not very popular, you didn’t ask questions, you just obey orders. So I stayed there for about another two or three weeks, and then we finally did push off, we boarded this train and in the early hours of the morning we disembarked on the quayside which we later found was the Clyde and there was the bulk, the vast grey bulk of the Queen Elizabeth waiting to take us somewhere else. And I think, I say I, I can’t speak for anybody else, but because, I don’t think we discussed these things, I mean some blokes chatted to each other about what was going to happen and what was happening and so on. I didn’t, I suppose I was too well disciplined. Excuse me, I must go and have a pee I’m afraid, I’ve got a very loose. As I say, I mean as far as I was concerned, oh yes, we’re fireproof the Queen Elizabeth, you know, rocketing along at thirty.
[Other]: Are you all right darling?
AB: Yes thank you my darling.
[Other]: Apparently the docs have just phoned, they say have been trying to phone us all morning. The phone hasn’t rung.
AB: I thought we were fireproof, it wasn’t till I read quite recently that I discovered that we actually sailed from the Clyde about two days after the biggest convoy submarine conflict of the North Atlantic during the war. Two convoys left Canada, one was a slow convoy I think, something like about five to eight knots and the other was a fast convoy, eight to twelve or eight to ten knots, something like that, anyway, they sailed at a time they met more or less in the middle of the Atlantic and so did a whole lot of, what is it, I forget what the Germans called their, their groups of u-boats, their u-boats were sort of formed into groups of fifteen or twenty, something like that, and they were strung out in a line north south more or less in the middle of the Atlantic, and when one of them spotted anything interesting they’d send out a signal and they’d all converge on this spot. This had happened that there had been this tremendous battle I don’t know how many merchant ships and u-boats were sunk, but a great number, and we just missed that, it would have been, we wouldn’t have had a chance I don’t suppose if we’d been a couple of days earlier. Anyway we got to Canada and we were duly sent to a Manning Depot, the RAF Manning Depot at Moncton. I really don’t remember much about that. I was a, I think I was a, I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t disinterested, I just, I never kept a diary of course, for one thing, and what letters I wrote home would have been fairly heavily censored and I’m quite sure that I wouldn’t have included anything interesting in them, if I had, and my parents didn’t bother to keep them or anything so I’ve no written record of what I got up to in Canada, it’s only just memory and as far as I was concerned Moncton, you know, the lights were all on, you could come out of the mess at eight or nine o’clock and then go to the cinema, you know, everything went on until the wee small hours, I don’t think the, none of the vittling or anything like that made any great impression on me. And anyway, in due course we were marshalled on to a train, again I don’t remember quite how spartan the train was, fairly spartan I expect, for our trip across Canada and I don’t know at what point we were informed where we were going, we just went and what impressed on me, I remember though being impressed by the Great Lakes, this, the fact that this train was umpteen carriages long and we wound our way along the north coast of I think it’s Lake Superior, the top lake anyway of the Great Lakes and you could see the front of the train from a way in the distance there somewhere, and we wound our way across and we stopped here, there and names were called out and men dropped off and they were posted to all sorts of exotic places like Saskatchewan and Assiniboine and Swift Current and so on and the only thing I remember of that was that somewhere out on this the over the Prairies which was flat as a pancake and featureless as a pancake and there was an edifice which would have done service as a bus stop in Britain and there were two or three civilians lounging against this building and two of them at least were fairly obvious of Red Indian origin and as the train pulled out sort of a couple of wags leant out and went [indian noise] these two chaps sort of lurched forward as if they probably would have hauled him out and done him if they’d, if the train hadn’t got away. Anyway, we ended up at Calgary as far west as the RAF’s aerodromes stretched and from Calgary we were, some of us were shipped up to an aerodrome called - what the devil was it called – Red Deer? No, that was the nearest town. Boden, Boden Ontario, Boden Alberta, and the nearest town was Red Deer and you know, a number of us got out and that was it and we did our, started this flying training and I got to the point where I was sent up on my first solo and I think I took about an hour and a half on this first solo; I know I touched down, several, more than once, several times, and sort of took off again because I didn’t think I’d made it properly and at the end of it I was sent up for another go around with the Chief Flying Instructor, at the end of which he said that he didn’t think I was suitable for pilot training, what did I fancy? And I thought to myself PNB, navigator bomb aimer. No, I don’t think I’d like to be a bomb aimer, what – fly to Germany in a blacked out bomber and drop the bombs and then fly home again. I had no idea that the [cough] that the bomb aimer in fact did a lot more than that: he helped the pilot, he helped the navigator, he helped anybody who needed it, and he manned the guns if necessary but I still didn’t fancy it anyway, I wouldn’t have fancied it. I’ll be a navigator. Then I thought no, I don’t want to be a navigator and fly in a blacked out bomber to Germany, I don’t know why I didn’t consider any other option of a navigator’s work. So I thought about it a bit more and then thought I’d be a Nav B, which was the navigator/bomb aimer which was the equivalent of the pre-war observer in the days when there was just a pilot and an observer. The pilot flew the aeroplane, the observer did everything else. He, he navigated the plane to wherever it was going and he dropped the bombs when they got there, he took the photographs if they wanted them and so on. So I said I’ll be a Nav B, which I suppose was quite a good choice and I was at the RC, Canadian Air Force Manning Depot, Edmonton at the time because obviously it was the nearest suitable dumping ground and there were a whole lot of Canadians on their preliminary training of course and a whole lot of Commonwealth airmen like myself who were having a go at something else, you know. There were chaps who’d been and got within a few weeks of getting their wings and had done something naughty, probably low flying, and been turfed out because the RAF was very strict on discipline like that, you know. You, they were very strict on low flying because a great many airmen killed themselves low flying because they thought they knew it all and they didn’t. And so I spent another two or three weeks at Edmonton which was quite good fun actually, we just mucked about and wasted our time, there was no training of any call, we weren’t taught anything, we could just do what we liked more or less and that’s what a lot of them did. The nerve had it or the word had it, that the Canadians had, they had big parade squares on all their stations and the Station Headquarters was built on the one side of this square and marked off with posts and everything and it had the flag, and when you went past the flag you saluted the flag. Well, that didn’t suit the Commonwealth airmen, particularly the Australians and that, and the Brits: they didn’t go for this saluting the flag so we would march all the three other sides of the square to avoid going past the flag. But the Australians took it one stage further: they commandeered the fire axes from the barrack blocks we were in because they all wooden barrack blocks and there were fire axes at strategic points and the Australians pinched the fire axes and chopped down the flag pole, anyway that was another thing. So then we were posted to, for the next training I was, for the next stage in our training and I was posted to Canadian Bombing and Gunnery School at Mountain View, Ontario, which is just about in the middle of Canada and that was about a, it was about a week’s journey, something like that and I was issued with a huge ticket, was about a yard or more long all folded up and sent on me way. For some reason, I don’t know why, I hitch-hiked down from Edmonton to Calgary, although the transportation covered this and that was interesting. I tried flagging down, um, what did I do? I think I tried, I tried flagging down a hearse and the chap said oh there’s a three hundred pound woman in there, I didn’t sort of really quite understand how heavy three hundred pounds was in human weight, and anyway they took me a few miles and then they dropped me off. I tried I think a young couple who were honey, honeymooning and they took me a few miles and then a vehicle stopped and it was full of Ukrainians because the Prairies were heavily, were heavily colonised by Central Europeans, the Ukrainians particularly, because when the American and Canadian railways were pushing their way through hostile Indian territory of course, were pushing their way through to the west they needed staff to, to live in settlements along the way which were refuelling stops for the railways, they had water and they had timber and of course that progressed as they wanted to, they wanted to settle these people, not just have them as, as settlers, so they canvassed Central Europe to find places which were similar in climate and soil where people would come and settle and live there and the Ukraine proved to be a very fertile place, and that’s where the North American tumble-weed came from apparently. The tumble-weed was endemic in the Ukraine and when they brought their seed with them, they brought the tumble-weed seed as well so the tumble-weed came from the Ukraine. Anyway, this car was full of Ukrainians and somehow crammed me in and took me a few more miles and I ended up in a van that was taking eggs to market in Calgary and then from Calgary I went west to see what Victoria was, Vancouver were like because my grandfather, maternal grandfather, had been in the navy in those parts, well so we understood anyway. He had a number of souvenirs of western Canada and China, we don’t quite know where those came from, anyway, I went there and then got on the train and about a week later I got out at a place, well I don’t know what the place was I got out, but anyway it was the railway station for Mountain View, Ontario and it was Canadian Number 6 B and G School. And that was very pleasant. We worked the Canadian system, that was we worked ten days and then we had a four days off, then we worked another ten days and another four days off and so on. It was a polyglot station too. Excuse me. We got a half a dozen New Zealanders, we got, we got about the same, I think, Canadians too. Some of them were sergeants and they were like the chaps back in England they re-mustered they decided that they didn’t want to stay in the Canadian Army doing nothing any more so they joined the, they re-mustered to the air force. There was one Canadian Jew, Moses Levine, and I think all the rest were made up of Brits, so it was a polyglot course. We spent about six or eight weeks there, very pleasant: it was the summer, it was hot as far as I, we were issued with khaki uniforms. The locals took us down on the beach, because we were on the shore of Lake whatever it was, Lake Eyrie or Lake, I think Lake Eyrie, we were on the shores of that and they took us down for a weenie roast [laugh] an introduction to these rather peculiar North American sausages, the weenies, the German sausages. And then at the end of that, oh we used to go up in twos and threes, it depended, we flew up in Ansons to do bombing, bombing training and Bolingbrokes to do gunning training. The Boligbroke was the Canadian, the Canadian made Blenheim and you had, I think you had four aspiring gunners and one lot of bullets had red paint on them, one lot had green, I think another lot had yellow and another lot were plain, and you used to fire at a Harvard which was, which was a trainer, single seat, well it was a, I say it was a single seat trainer, it was a trainer for the pilots who were destined to go on to single seat, to become single seat fighter pilots. And we were, the train on those things they used to count the number of coloured holes - if any - and you know, assess your ability from that. And then the gunnery, the bombing was done in Ansons, which dropped little, I think they were fifteen pound bombs, they were bomb shaped, and they let off a puff of smoke when they hit the ground and there were observers in towers on either side of the range and they used to line up on these exploding bombs and from that they’d assess your accuracy. So that was the bombing, the gunnery and then it was off to navigation school. Well up we went to Quebec. [Laugh] We got out there and they said: ‘No you’re too early, you’re not due for the next, you’re next due for the fortnight so, you know, buzz off on leave.’ So off we went on leave again! I and a few others decided to go down to New York and that was, as a boy one of my favourite articles of reading was the Great World of Adventure and they were death defying stories beloved of the old Victorians of the white man against the black man and the red man, and there were you know, tales of Africa and North America and all these forts, Fort Ticonderoga and other places on the, on the border between English America and well, it was of course French Canada. I don’t think the Americans ever, well they did see themselves, they had, I mean Louisiana and Alabama and these southern states were American, Canadian American but the northern states were French Canada and anyway I hitch-hiked and stopped off to have a look at places like Fort Ticonderoga and other places that I had read about which had been reconstructed and I remember I had a lift from an American naval lieutenant commander and he said what are you doing, I was going to New York and he said, oh I want to catch that bus or something, so he put his boot down and he had me on the edge of the back seat clutching the edge of the back seat as he went screeching along trying to overtake this bloody bus! He did in the end and I got on that and went down to New York and did all the sights, went up the Rockefeller Centre and oh you know, all the things, and being a very um, a very, what’s the word, erm, I can’t think of the word anyway, I didn’t know nothing about anything, I didn’t know what sex was, I didn’t know anything about anything like that, you know, and so, which is probably just as well cause I never got in to any trouble and I had a good enough time in New York. Then it was back to work and learning how to be a navigator and we were paired up for that and I was paired up with a, one of the New Zealanders, Johnnie Johnson, came from Christchurch, in er, he’d been a schoolteacher Johnnie Johnson had, and I enjoyed that, I did anyway, it was great fun. Learning where all the stars were. I remember when I was a small boy in Wales on holiday. I mean it was, I mean that was absolutely perfect viewing weather and my father trying to point out different constellations and it was just a jumble of, jumble of stars you know, and you couldn’t tell one from another, I mean now when you know the, you’ve been taught the stars I mean on a good night yes, so and so Betelgeuse and Bellatrix and all the rest of them and the Plough and that. They had a trainer, a celestial trainer which was like the thing they use in um, oh god, in museums and observatories where they have projections of all the stars and they can show you what any constellation looked like at any time within the last twenty, thirty, forty thousand years, something like that. Very interesting. If you, but again, many, many years before I came to appreciate the value of the stars. Anyway, so in due course I passed out in January 1944 as a Navigator B; I think I was top of the course, anyway, very near the top of the course, second or third. And again, did I have the inevitable leave? No, I don’t think I did actually. I think we were posted. Oh yes, I did have leave of course as I was commissioned and I had to get a uniform and everything, so I had ten days or a fortnight’s leave before boarding a train to go down to the Bahamas. Oh that was, you think oh gosh that’s a bit of a plummy sort of posting but in fact the general opinion was the chaps weren’t very keen on it because the buzz word was that all the chaps from headquarters in Washington and other places where the RAF had you know, posts buying aeroplanes, selling bombs you know, and doing everything else necessary for the conduct of the war, and the rumour was it had, rumour was it that these chaps used to swan off and have a good time there and you know, and keep an eye on the RAF cadets or whatever they were, who were training, but it was all bloody, bloody word of it, of any these chaps, not likely – I mean would you have gone down to the Parade Ground to see how the chaps are getting on? Or yes, I’d like a flight in a Liberator, or something else, whatever they were flying, you know, just to see how the chaps are getting on? Not bloody likely! You’d be off down the nearest well, place of disrepute. So in fact it was quite enjoyable, quite enjoyable and come August ‘44 there I was, it was different, again I was different from the others, it was a bit like arsey tarsey, you know, I was the odd bod, you know, I hadn’t gone through the Stansted - the Stansted? - the standard training rigmarole, I got to, I got to 111 OTU as it was called at Nassau in the Bahamas and me and the pilot were odd bods again because there were two sets of training: the first set of training was on the twin engined Mitchell, which was one of the American light bombers, it was the one that the Americans used to flew off the aircraft carriers to bomb Tokyo just to frighten the Japanese and anyway the normal practice was that you’d get two pilots put together and a navigator and they would be the basic crew of a B25. Well it didn’t happen with us. As far as we were concerned, old Pop Hedges, he was called Pop because he was twenty six, and he was quite old was Pop, worked for the [unclear] Smoke Company I think, in Watford, anyway he was, Pop and I were put together but we had a staff pilot too who was actually captain of the aircraft all the time and we flew all these exercises and so on and then we were posted across to Oaksfield which was where the Liberators operated from, the B24 Liberator which was the RAF’s long range reconnaissance anti-submarine aircraft, excuse me, and you were there crewed up with a pilot who’d, who’d um, no you weren’t actually, because the chaps who came across from, oh god, from what’d I say, Oaksfield, anyway, they came across, the chaps who’d been training on the, on the twin engined, came across as a captain and second pilot and navigator crew and they picked up RAF elements, wireless operators and air gunners who’d been shipped out from England and they made up Liberator crews. We came across and we were put under the command of a pilot, an RAF pilot who’d done about a half a tour with the RAF and was sent to the Bahamas to take a command. He was going to be a captain and so we were put under the command of a little Scotsman, Scotty Steel, and I was the second navigator to Freddie Freek, who’d done again, a half a tour as a navigator in Coastal and we had a half tour wireless operator, near time you went, near time I went I suppose., so that was it.
NM: Tell you what, Andrew that’s a good place to stop, for now and we will pick this up again.
AB: The demise of Andrew Barron at Nassau!
NM: Good place to stop, in the Bahamas isn’t it!
[Other]: Ah yes!
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Andrew Barron. One
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nigel Moore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-04-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABarronAJK190408, PBarronAJK1901
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Navy
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:02:46 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Andrew was born in Chichester in 1923. The family moved to Wolverhampton when he was about two years old and then to Dulwich just before the war. When he was 13 or 14 his mother enrolled him at the Royal Naval College at Dartmouth, where he spent over three years as a cadet. Following a silly escapade, he was expelled from the Royal Navy. He attended the City & Guilds Engineering College during 1941-42 to get a degree in mechanical engineering. Andrew joined the University Air Squadron and spent a few weeks at St. John’s Wood before being posted to Brighton to an aircrew distribution centre. He was then sent to RAF Sywell, an elementary flying training school. Following a few weeks on Tiger Moths, Andrew was sent to Heaton Park to await pilot training. In April 1943 he sailed on the Queen Elizabeth to Canada for a manning depot at Moncton. Andrew chose to be a navigator / bomb aimer and spent some time at Edmonton and Mountain View. They went to various bases for training on different aircraft and then to a navigation school in Quebec. After he passed out in January 1944 as a navigator, Andrew was commissioned and had leave before going to the Bahamas where he flew on B-25 and B-24.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943-04
1944-01
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Bahamas
Canada
Alberta
New Brunswick
England--Devon
England--Northamptonshire
England--Sussex
England--Dartmouth
England--London
New Brunswick--Moncton
Québec
Ontario--Belleville
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Anne-Marie Watson
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
aircrew
B-24
B-25
Bombing and Gunnery School
Flying Training School
navigator
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Sywell
station headquarters
Tiger Moth
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1279/17536/PPearceAT16010095.1.jpg
72ed2d4fe08c2d6799454ebf1323973c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pearce, Arthur
A T Pearce
Description
An account of the resource
140 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Arthur Pearce (1874945 Royal Air Force) He served as an air gunner with 12, 170 and 156 (Pathfinder) Squadrons and completed a 44 operations. After the war, on 35 Squadron he took part in the June 1946 Victory flypast over London and a goodwill visit to the United States. It contains his diaries, memorabilia and photographs.
The collection also contains an album concerning his post war activity with the Goodwill tour of the United States.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Steve Allan and catalogued by Nigel Huckins
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Pearce, AT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
B-25, C-47 and Lancaster parked at airfield
Description
An account of the resource
On the left facing a C-47. In the centre a B-25 facing away. On the right a Lancaster facing left front. All parked on edge of hard-standing. (Photograph over-exposed)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16010095
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
B-25
C-47
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1292/17607/PPearceAT16030011.1.jpg
b028adcd74c460c16b31a748fe6421ea
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Goodwill tour of United States
Description
An account of the resource
Top - newspaper cutting with photograph of air-to-air view of formation of 12 Lancasters from 35 Squadron over New York. Caption states that photograph shows them over East River and that they will fly on to St Louis.
Middle right - photograph of C-47 on left facing, B-25 middle facing away and Lancaster on the right.
Bottom - newspaper cutting with photograph of seven Lancasters in light paint scheme parked on airfield at Long Beach California with crews standing in front. In front of them a welcoming party. Caption 'Smart Line -up. Due back any day now, the 16 Lancasters on No 35 Squadron are shown inspected at Long Beach California during the US Army Air Force Day celebrations'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two newspaper cuttings and one b/w photograph mounted on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16030011
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California--Long Beach
New York (State)--New York
California
New York (State)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
1946-08
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
1946-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
35 Squadron
aerial photograph
B-25
C-47
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/809/22583/LEdmundsAE430709v1.2.pdf
3cb999f857acfe6ff694b39669f8441c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Edmunds, Eddie
Albert Ernest Edmunds
A E Edmunds
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history with Eddie Edmunds DFC (b. 1917, 430709 Royal Air Force), his log book and one photograph. He flew operations with 106 and 608 Squadrons. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Albert Edward Edmunds and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Edmunds, AE
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Albert Edward Edmunds’ pilots flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for A E Edmunds, covering the period from 18 August 1941 to 4 October 1945. Detailing his flying training, Operations flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Penhold, RAF Hatfield, RAF Prestwick, RAF Dishforth, RAF Kirmington, RAF Upper Heyford, RAF Wigsley, RAF Syerston, RAF Peplow (also known as RAF Childs Ercall), RAF Church Broughton, RAF Hixon, RAF Barford St John, RAF Downham Market, RAF Warboys and RAF Gransden Lodge. Aircraft flown were, Tiger Moth, Oxford, Hudson, Ventura, Wellington, Manchester, Lancaster, Martinet, Mosquito and Mitchell. He flew a total of 44 night operations, 30 with 106 squadron and 14 with 608 sqaudron. Targets were, Duisburg, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Cologne, Lorient, Milan, Bremen, Nuremburg, Munich, Stuttgart, Essen, St Nazaire, Kiel, Spezia, Dortmund, Pilsen, Bochum, Oberhausen, Krefeld, Berlin and Schleissheim. His pilot for his first 'second dickie' operation was Pilot Officer Lace. The log book also list his post war civilian flying.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LEdmundsAE430709v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Great Britain
Italy
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Alberta--Red Deer Region
Czech Republic--Plzeň
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Derbyshire
England--Hertfordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Shropshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Lorient
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
Germany--Oberschleissheim
Germany--Stuttgart
Italy--La Spezia
Italy--Milan
Scotland--South Ayrshire
Alberta
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1942-12-20
1942-12-21
1943-01-27
1943-01-28
1943-01-30
1943-01-31
1943-02-02
1943-02-03
1943-02-04
1943-02-07
1943-02-08
1943-02-13
1943-02-14
1943-02-15
1943-02-16
1943-02-17
1943-02-21
1943-02-22
1943-03-08
1943-03-09
1943-03-10
1943-03-11
1943-03-12
1943-03-13
1943-03-22
1943-03-23
1943-04-04
1943-04-05
1943-04-08
1943-04-09
1943-04-10
1943-04-13
1943-04-14
1943-04-26
1943-04-27
1943-04-30
1943-05-01
1943-05-04
1943-05-05
1943-05-12
1943-05-13
1943-05-14
1943-05-23
1943-05-24
1943-05-25
1943-05-26
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-13
1943-06-14
1943-06-15
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1945-03-13
1945-03-14
1945-03-15
1945-03-16
1945-03-17
1945-03-18
1945-03-21
1945-03-22
1945-03-23
1945-03-26
1945-03-27
1945-03-28
1945-04-02
1945-04-03
1945-04-11
1945-04-12
1945-04-13
1945-04-14
1945-04-16
1945-04-17
1945-04-19
1945-04-20
1945-04-21
1945-04-22
1945-04-24
1945-04-25
1945-06-02
1945-06-07
1945-06-12
1945-06-19
1945-06-27
1945-07-09
1945-07-23
1945-08-03
106 Squadron
16 OTU
1654 HCU
27 OTU
30 OTU
608 Squadron
83 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
B-25
bombing
Cook’s tour
Flying Training School
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hudson
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Manchester
Martinet
Mosquito
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF Barford St John
RAF Church Broughton
RAF Dishforth
RAF Downham Market
RAF Gransden Lodge
RAF Hatfield
RAF Hixon
RAF Kirmington
RAF Peplow
RAF Prestwick
RAF Syerston
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Warboys
RAF Wigsley
Tiger Moth
training
Ventura
Wellington