1
25
54
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/636/40428/SRoyallGL1801494v10079.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/636/40428/SRoyallGL1801494v10080.1.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Royall, George
G Royall
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Royall, G
Description
An account of the resource
46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-20
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aircraft of Bomber Command completing more than 100 operations
Description
An account of the resource
First page lists 13 lancasters and one Halifax by registration number and gives the number of operations flown, the squadrons they belonged to and their fate (disposal).
Second page lists a further 22 Lancasters by registration number only.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two page type-written document
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Royall, George. No 166 Squadron
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SRoyallGL1801494v10079, SRoyallGL1801494v10080
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
100 Squadron
101 Squadron
103 Squadron
15 Squadron
156 Squadron
158 Squadron
166 Squadron
467 Squadron
50 Squadron
550 Squadron
576 Squadron
61 Squadron
7 Squadron
83 Squadron
97 Squadron
bombing
Halifax
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/636/40415/SRoyallGL1801494v10039-51.2.pdf
6f430a2711cd739e7bd8e60657eec07b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Royall, George
G Royall
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Royall, G
Description
An account of the resource
46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-20
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancasters issued to No. 166 squadron between September 1943 and April 1945
Description
An account of the resource
12 pages listing 204 aircraft that were flown by No. 166 Squadron. Six columns record each aircraft's registration number, the date received, where it came from, the code letters and details of it's loss or disposal. For some aircraft the number of hours flown is also recorded. The list is ordered by registration number. There are eight addenda, each giving further details about an individual aircraft and it's crew. The cover page has an image of a Lancaster carrying the code letters of No. 166 Squadron.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Twenty-one pages printed document
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Royall, George. No 166 Squadron
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SRoyallGL1801494v10039-51
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-09
1943-10
1943-11
1943-12
1944-01
1944-02
1944-03
1944-04
1944-05
1944-06
1944-07
1944-08
1944-09
1944-10
1944-11
1944-12
1945-01
1944-02
1944-03
1944-04
1944-05
1944-07
1944-12
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
France
France--Abbeville
France--Aube
France--Aubigny-sur-Nère
France--Calais
France--Dieppe
France--Poitiers
France--Saint-Cyr-l'École
France--Saint-Dizier (Haute-Marne)
France--Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines
France--Thoiry (Yvelines)
Great Britain
England--Essex
England--Maldon
England--Lincolnshire
England--Barnetby le Wold
England--Barton-upon-Humber
England--Brigg
England--Caistor (Rural District)
England--Lincoln
England--Market Rasen
England--Nottinghamshire
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Diepholz
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Geilenkirchen
Germany--Gerolstein
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Hennef-Sieg
Germany--Lehnin (Kloster Lehnin)
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Nordstemmen
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Steinheim (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Treuenbrietzen
Germany--Welver
Germany--Westerburg
Netherlands
Netherlands--Apeldoorn
Netherlands--Nijmegen
Netherlands--Oisterwijk
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Pending review
100 Squadron
101 Squadron
103 Squadron
12 Squadron
153 Squadron
1656 HCU
166 Squadron
1660 HCU
1667 HCU
300 Squadron
460 Squadron
49 Squadron
550 Squadron
57 Squadron
576 Squadron
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bomb aimer
bomb struck
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
Conspicuous Gallantry Medal
crash
final resting place
flight engineer
forced landing
Fw 190
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hurricane
Ju 88
killed in action
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Me 109
Me 110
mid-air collision
mine laying
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Bradwell Bay
RAF Coningsby
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kirmington
RAF Leeming
RAF Lindholme
RAF Manston
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodbridge
shot down
tactical support for Normandy troops
take-off crash
training
V-1
V-weapon
wireless operator
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Royall, George
G Royall
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Royall, G
Description
An account of the resource
46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-20
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
No 166 Squadron history
Description
An account of the resource
A three-page potted account of the squadron's history.
Page one begins with the reformation of the squadron in 1936 and gives details of the aircraft operated, the stations flown from and the roles the squadron played in training and operations.
Page two describes three miscellaneous incidents that occurred on the squadron, including one where the mid-upper gunner accidentally shot and killed the rear gunner.
Page three contains details about three notable Lancasters.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1936-11
1938-06
1939-05
1940-04
1943-01-27
1943-01-28
1943-01-29
1943-01-30
1943-05
1943-09-20
1943-10-18
1943-11-22
1944-04-10
1944-06-26
1944-06-27
1944-10-07
1944-11-10
1945-04-24
1945-05-07
1945-08-20
1945-09-28
1945-02-20
1947-01-08
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Lorient
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Oxfordshire
Germany
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Kassel
Netherlands
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three-page printed document
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Royall, George. No 166 Squadron
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SRoyallGL1801494v10003, SRoyallGL1801494v10004, SRoyallGL1801494v10005
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
10 OTU
103 Squadron
142 Squadron
150 Squadron
153 Squadron
1656 HCU
166 Squadron
550 Squadron
576 Squadron
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
crash
Heavy Conversion Unit
killed in action
Lancaster
mine laying
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Kirmington
RAF North Killingholme
RAF Scampton
take-off crash
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2001/38301/LTravellAE1460176v1.2.pdf
49f050127e885a6f1d37cf206325bd30
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Travell, Ted
Arthur Edward Travell
A E Travell
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-12-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Travell, AE
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collection concerns Ted Travell (1460176 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 214 and 576 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nicola Schweikhardt and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A E Travell’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for A E Travell, air gunner, covering the period from 4 September 1942 to 28 May 1945. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Dalcross, RAF Marham, RAF Stradishall, RAF Chedburgh and RAF Fiskerton. Aircraft flown in were Defiant, Wellington, Stirling, Oxford, and Lancaster. He flew a total of 36 operations, 31 night operations with 214 Squadron and 2 daylight and 3 night operations with 576 Squadron. He also flew on 3 Operation Manna flights. Targets were Duisburg, Lorient, Fresian Isles, Cologne, St Jean de Luc, St Nazaire, Berlin, Hamburg, Kiel, Baltic Sea, Dortmund, Bochum, Wuppertal, Dusseldorf, Krefeld, Mullheim, Elberfeld, Gelsenkirchen, Aachen, Remscheid, Nurnberg, Nordhausen, Lutzkendorf, Plauen, Cuxhaven and Berchtesgaden. Operation Manna flights were to The Hague and Rotterdam. His pilots on operations were Pilot Officer Smith, Sergeant Forbes, Pilot Officer Johnson Flight Lieutenant Falconer, Flight Lieutenant Strachan and Flight Sergeant McDermott.<br /><br /><br /><span data-contrast="auto" xml:lang="EN-GB" lang="EN-GB" class="TextRun SCXW227392149 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW227392149 BCX0">This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No </span><span class="ContextualSpellingAndGrammarError SCXW227392149 BCX0">better quality</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW227392149 BCX0"> copies are available.</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW227392149 BCX0" data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":200,"335559740":276}"> </span>
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-12-10
1942-12-22
1943-01-18
1943-01-19
1943-01-21
1943-01-22
1943-02-07
1943-02-08
1943-02-13
1943-02-14
1943-02-15
1943-02-16
1943-02-17
1943-02-26
1943-02-27
1943-02-28
1943-02-29
1943-03-01
1943-03-03
1943-03-04
1943-03-29
1943-03-30
1943-04-04
1943-04-05
1943-04-08
1943-04-09
1943-04-26
1943-04-27
1943-04-28
1943-04-29
1943-05-04
1943-05-12
1943-05-13
1943-05-14
1943-05-29
1943-05-30
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-17
1943-06-18
1943-06-21
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Suffolk
France--Lorient
France--Saint-Nazaire
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Cuxhaven
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Elberfeld
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Merseburg Region
Germany--Müllheim
Germany--Nordhausen (Thuringia)
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Plauen
Germany--Remscheid
Germany--Wuppertal
Netherlands--Friesland
Netherlands--Hague
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Scotland--Highlands
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LTravellAE1460176v1
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
1657 HCU
1660 HCU
214 Squadron
576 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
Defiant
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
mine laying
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Oxford
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Dalcross
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Marham
RAF Stradishall
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1817/32365/BWittyARWittyARv1.2.pdf
a568d561e92d25b45be271b0cecccb86
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Witty, A R
Witty, Ron
Witty, Ronald
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Witty, AR
Description
An account of the resource
118 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Ronald Witty DFM (1520694 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, navigation charts and logs of all his operations, photographs and correspondence home from training in South Africa. He flew thirty operations as a navigator with 12 Squadron before going as an instructor on 1656 HCU and then 576 and 50 Squadrons after the war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by David Witty and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
TIME OUT FOR WAR
[black and white sketch of Avro Lancaster bomber]
A factual account of war-time experiences
By Flight Lieutenant Ronald Witty D.F.C., B.Sc., A.R.I.C.
[page break]
TIME OUT FOR WAR
A factual account of war-time experiences
By Flight Lieutenant Ronald Witty D.F.C., B.Sc., A.R.I.C.
[page break]
[underlined]Author’s Foreword[/underlined]
At the insistence of my family, who are somewhat in the dark as regards what I got up to during World War Two, I have compiled the following account.
My memory of the wartime years still remains very clear, helped by some brief notes in diaries, my log book, some letters and, importantly, the navigational logs and charts of all thirty bombing operations in which I took part in 1944. Using them I could still tell you where our Lancaster crew was, within two or three miles, at anytime during those operations of more than fifty years ago.
[underlined]Acknowledgements[/underlined]
Many thanks to my wife Yvonne and my family for their various contributions in getting the raw material organised, and to Mike Fong for his help with the photographs.
[page break]
[underlined] CONTENTS [/underlined]
[underlined] Chapter. [/underlined] [underlined] Page No. [/underlined]
1. Decisions 5
2. The Stirling Castle 15
3. South Africa 21
4. Back to England 33
5. Operations 1 - 20 43
6. Operations 21 - 30 55
7. Instructing “ferry trips” & crewing up for second tour. 69
8. Lancaster ME 758 PH-N “Nan” 81
9. GEE, A.P.I. and H2S 85
10. The German Defences 87
11. Reflections on Survival 89
12. Postscript 93
Bibliography 97
Glossary of Terms 99
1
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[underlined] PHOTOGRAPHS [/underlined]
Following [underlined] Page No. [/underlined]
[underlined] East London, 1943 [/underlined] 32
Left to Right - Fred Rolph, Author, Dorita, ? Parker (uncertain)
[underlined] ‘B’ Flight, Air Navigation Course No. 12 at 41 Air School, Collondale, East London [/underlined] 32
Left to Right - Bond, Chippendale, Cox, Osborne, Jones, Sadler, Author, Hill, Woodland, Wilson, Marshall, Albans
[underlined] Ops Crew, 1944 [/underlined] 54
[italics] Mid Upper [/italics] - Stan Swain, [italics] Bomb Aimer [/italics] - Tom Crook, [italics] Navigator [/italics - Author, [italics] Pilot [/italics] - Fred Holbrook, [/italics] Rear Gunner [/italics] - Tom Tibb, [italics] Flight Engineer [/italics] - John Squires, [italics] Wireless Operator [/italics] - Jock Poyner
[underlined] Ops Crew and PH-N (‘Nan’) [/underlined] 54
Poyner, Tibb, Author, Swain, Crook, Holbrook, Squires
[underlined] The Author and PH-N [/underlined] 54
[underlined] Second Tour Crew, May 1945 [/underlined] 80
Two Gunners, [italics] Wireless Operator [/italics] - ‘Artie Shaw’, [italics] Pilot [/italics] - Bill Addison, [italics] Bomb Aimer [/italics] - Jack, [italics] Navigator [/italics] - Author, [italics] Flight Engineer. [/italics]
3
[page break]
[underlined] The author en-route to Wickenby, June 1945 [/underlined] 84
[underlined] PH-N, June 1945, with the author and member of the old ground crew [/underlined] 84
4
[page break]
[underlined] Chapter 1 : Decisions [/underlined]
Hull Grammar School - an old established seat of learning, with many famous pupils. I was proud of the old school and here I took the School Certificate Examination in June 1937. I passed in eight subjects with a Distinction in Chemistry. A selected group took Additional Maths, taught by the Headmaster, F. Mayor. This introduced me to differential calculus at the age of fourteen. I spent two terms in the Lower Sixth Science pending my sixteenth birthday, in March 1938. Although Maths was my favourite subject, it was more practical at that time to use the Chemistry. In those days, there were fewer universities and unless ones parents were very wealthy, one left school at sixteen.
I started work in the laboratories at British Oil & Cake Mills, H.O.M.Co, Stoneferry, Hull, within easy cycling distance from home. They were part of the Unilever Group, and were a very good firm, with sports and social facilities. I had little spare time for these as I immediately enrolled at the Hull Municipal Technical College, beginning in September 1938. I found that my School Certificate qualification gave me exemption only from the Northern Universities Matriculation and not from the London University Matriculation. This meant that I couldn’t enter for the External London B.Sc. in Chemistry. The difference between the Northern Matric. and the London Matric. was that English Literature was a compulsory subject for the latter. This seemed irrelevant in the context of a Chemistry Degree. However, I entered for the A.I.C. (Associate of the Institute of Chemistry). The A.I.C. and B.Sc. people took the same classes, but instead of taking the Inter-B.Sc. examination, after two years of Evening Classes one was given slips of paper certifying that one was up to Inter B.Sc. standard in Maths.
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and Physics. (These I duly obtained in May 1940.)
Meanwhile, I was fully aware of what was brewing up in Europe with Hitler and his gang making monkeys of the old-school politicians. The ruthless annexation of Austria, followed by that of Czechoslovakia, despite the pathetic delaying tactics of Britain and France, in addition to Hitler’s bellicose threats, made it very evident to me that war was becoming almost inevitable. The facts and figures produced by Winston Churchill underlined the growing military potential of the German forces. The weak capitulation of the British and French diplomats on the matter of the Sudetenland confirmed my belief that it was only a matter of time.
I was heartened when at last Britain and France gave their support to Poland, and actually felt relief when, after the German attack on Poland on September 1st 1939, they honoured their obligations and declared war on Germany. I realised fully how terrible a step it was, but there was no reasonable alternative. Sooner or later we had to face reality.
It was still very eerie when the first air-raid warning sounded on Sunday, September 3rd. 1939.
I carried on with my evening classes (three evenings a week), cycling to and from the Technical College throughout the black-out and occasional air-raid alarms. In fact, I didn’t miss a single class up to the time I went into the R.A.F. in April 1942.
I seem to remember that it was during the very first session of evening classes that I first met Walter Suddaby, who lived in North Hull. He was a quietly-spoken pleasant lad and we had similar ideas of humour and became friends for the duration
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of our time at the Tech. Of course, having full-time day jobs plus three nights a week at the Tech. and other evenings writing up notes and studying at home, we didn’t get together outside the course.
When the war started I was just coming up to seventeen and a half and “Sudd” was about the same age, maybe a month or two older. We followed the events of the war, wondering how it was going to affect us, but with no clear idea what we were about to do in the future.
War came to Hull spasmodically but with increasing intensity as the years passed. The German Luftwaffe found the city an easy option. Placed on a distinctive bend of a wide river estuary, it wasn’t too difficult to spot even at night, when most of their attacks were made. Also it wasn’t a great distance for them to travel, reducing navigational problems on the way. There were many air-raid warnings when inland targets were being sought and the “All-clear” didn’t sound until the last of the enemy aircraft cleared the coast on their way home. Hull often received an extra “bonus” if the Germans couldn’t find their original target.
As the war progressed the age of conscription for service in the armed forces was reduced to nineteen years but there was provision for students who were within two years of the final exams. to obtain deferment until after those exams. I remember quite clearly discussing the situation with “Sudd” and another Tech. student as we stood with our ‘cycles in the middle of the town. We agreed that we wouldn’t apply for deferment because “our qualifications wouldn’t amount to much if Hitler won the war”. “Sudd” and I would volunteer for the R.A.F. and the other lad (I can’t remember his name now) preferred the Fleet
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would be affected by the transition from my mundane earthly existence into the realms of flight. I had at the back of my mind some disturbing recollections of not being too comfortable on fairground rides, so I was just a little apprehensive. On this account I asked my mother not to tell people that I was going as aircrew, so if things didn’t turn out too well I wouldn’t be a public disgrace.
At Lord’s the centre of the famous stretch of turf was cordoned off but the perimeter offices had been converted into depots dispensing all the items of kit we were likely to require plus the inevitable kit-bag. Here we had our introduction to authority in the shape of sergeants and corporals, who shepherded us around the establishment until eventually we were marched off to our billets. My lot were in a converted block of flats in Viceroy Court, St. John’s Wood, which had been re-equipped with service beds and lockers.
It was all very strange, finding oneself amongst a crowd of strangers from various walks of life. The only thing we definitely had in common was that we were “all in the same boat”. We had so many adjustments to make from our previous individual routines that we more readily accepted our imposed companions and most of their idiosyncrasies. The main exceptions as far as I was concerned were smoking and crude language. I had earlier decided that smoking was bad for the health and ruled that out. After hearing some of my new associates, apparently unable to complete sentences without including at least one “f” word, I concluded that the repeated insertion made both the speech and the user appear idiotic and resolved never to stoop to it. I never did.
Various N.C.O.s, mainly corporals, undertook to instil
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some military discipline on our “shower” and in a few weeks we were marching around in shiny boots and brand new uniforms with shiny buttons and getting regular hair-cuts so we didn’t get picked out during inspections.
Although I was in London there was no scope entertainment-wise. Pay for an A.C.2 was 2s. 6d. a day. I was making a voluntary allotment home of 1s 0d. a day, so when pay day came after two weeks I had to quote my last three numbers, 694, step forward, salute and receive the princely sum of £1. I think I managed to get to a Lyon’s cafe once or twice whilst in London. Most of the “entertainment” consisted of walking around some of London’s famous streets.
We all looked forward to getting to an I.T.W. (Initial Training Wing) and acquiring some more useful instruction than the rudiments of drill. Unfortunately, by the time my posting to No. 5 I.T.W. at Torquay came through I had a problem. Due probably to being a little run down towards the end of the evening class session in Hull, combined with swinging arms up to shoulder-level during our marching exercises I developed an abscess under one arm. If I reported sick I would miss my posting and would be stuck in London for another three weeks, so I kept quiet and only mentioned the matter when I got to Torquay on 9.5.42. I was immediately hospitalised with a temperature of 104 degrees F. and operated on the next day.
“Home” in Torquay was the Toorak Hotel, appropriately modified with service beds and lockers. We commenced a range of studies including navigation, meteorology, signals, armament, aircraft recognition, hygiene and anti-gas. We continued with drill and physical training in addition to the regular exercise we
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got marching along the hilly streets in Torquay. The thing that regularly bothered me, being only five feet six and a half, was the constant effort to keep pace with the taller people at the head of the column, generally six-footers. I seemed to be airborne most of the time! We had as our N.C.O. Sergeant Ditchburn, who was the Tottenham Hotspurs goalkeeper. We found him to be quite a reasonable type and certainly preferable to a pre-war regular. He was firm but genial and had a good sense of humour.
As we progressed with our I.T.W. course we were rewarded by promotion to L.A.C. (leading aircraftman) which involved wearing a propeller badge on the sleeve. This embellishment in addition to the white flash worn in the forage cap gave us quite a smart appearance. Pay shot up to 5s. 6d. a day! Much of the time that summer in Torquay we didn’t wear our tunics – it was too warm, particularly when being marched around at 140 paces to the minute. I must admit that marching like that with arms swinging to shoulder height did look impressive and when it was N.A.A.F.I. or W.V.S. break time there was no problem achieving 140 despite the hilly streets, particularly when “racing” other squads.
I can remember learning Morse and using the buzzer and the Aldis lamp, also learning to rectify faults in the Browning 303 machine gun. Two other events associated with those days spring to mind. On one occasion we were all on the beach when we got our first sight of the enemy. A couple of Messerschmitt 109s came swooping in at low level to attack the shipping in the harbour. They also opened up with machine gun and cannon fire at random. We lay flat on the beach and had a very good view of the crosses on their wings. Fortunately we had no casualties.
The other memorable event was a dramatic introduction
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to dinghy drill. An inflated aircraft dinghy floating in the harbour at Torquay was the objective of our escapes from a mock ditching. In turn and singly we had to don a sodden uniform and a Mae West and jump into the harbour and make our way to the dinghy. This was reasonably straightforward for swimmers, but as a complete non-swimmer it certainly presented me with a problem.
For a start the water was about 14 feet below the harbour wall so there was no easy option. It was a case of jumping into the unknown or not showing up very well in front of everyone – so I jumped.
It seemed a long time before I surfaced and then managed rather laboriously to dog-paddle to the dinghy. I realised that it would not have been a realistic exercise in, say, the North Sea for real.
Time passed and we were kept well occupied with lectures, exams and drill (including rifle and continuity drill) and a memorable cross-country run of a mile or two which included ploughing through a duck-inhabited pond. We returned to the Toorak Hotel soaking wet, smelling horribly and legs stinging from nettle contact. On another occasion we were taken by a rather ancient local train and dropped off in small groups at stations along the line skirting Dartmoor and given the task of finding our various ways across country to a pub four or five miles away, somewhere in the middle of the moors. There we downed a pint or two of excellent cider. Fortunately we didn’t have to walk back!
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[underlined] Chapter 2: The Stirling Castle [/underlined]
Eventually, I think it was about 15.10.42, we were posted to Blackpool after some embarkation leave. We were billeted in typical Blackpool boarding houses complete with landladies. Ours was “Holmleigh”, Crystal Road. When “Sudd.” got my letter with the Blackpool postmark he was surprised but rightly deduced that I was going abroad. He said he wouldn’t mind being in my place. He was completing a wireless course at Cranwell. He had at one time also been billeted in Blackpool and had enjoyed his accommodation. He wished me good luck and suggested that to be on the safe side I should send my future letters to his home address in 5th Avenue, North Hull.
I received his letter just before we were moved to Liverpool and transferred to the “Stirling Castle” one of the Union Castle Line’s fleet which had been converted for troop carrying. That was on 26.10.42. Our accommodation consisted of long narrow benches and tables for the day-time and hammocks for sleeping. I recall the awkward and maddening time getting even the blankets to stay in the hammock. At night we must have looked like a tin of sardines. Next day the ship moved out into the river and our time was spent “spud-carrying” (2 hours) and then “fatigues” such as cutting butter, etc. from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. Talk about slave labour!
On the 28.10.42 the ship turned to face the river mouth and we had our first boat drill. At 1 p.m. the following day we sailed, leaving Liverpool and the Royal Liver Buildings, then passing the Isle of Man and Stranraer as we headed round Northern Ireland. We got used to the hammocks but there was a snag. They isolated us from the movement of the ship and the full extent of the sea movement was not apparent until we
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dismounted next morning and hit the heaving deck. By now of course, we were getting into the Atlantic. It was better, if somewhat chilly on deck. I was a little sick and didn’t bother about fish breakfast. The afternoon was pleasant and we were entertained watching Aldis signals from escorting warships and a sister ship, the “Athlone Castle”. There were six ships in our convoy.
On the third day our convoy had increased to seven ships with six escorts and we were moving more slowly. Depth charges were dropped during the afternoon. Two days later we were joined by a merchant cruiser but there were now only two destroyers or frigates in sight. The temperature was increasing as we headed in a generally southerly direction and we changed into tropical kit.
We wrote letters and listened to the B.B.C. when we could, and were pleased to have good news of the North African theatre. Pontoon was a popular pastime but we also spent some time swotting our I.T.W. notes. In between we watched flying fish and were fascinated by the phosphorescence of the water. One ship left the convoy, with a small gunboat as escort.
As the temperature rose and we estimated our position as approximately 28 degrees West we speculated about the possibility of visiting South America. Our thoughts were re-focused when a destroyer Aldis message mentioned U-boats. This was a particularly profitable time for the German submarines, as the Royal Navy had not had time to recover from a series of severe set-backs in ’41 and ’42 and had only the minimum capacity for escorting convoys. On the credit side, the German Enigma Code had been broken, (we, of course, knew nothing about that) and so it was possible using devious routes to
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avoid the U-boat packs.
On 10.11.42 we were reduced to two escort vessels. Next day, Armistice Day, I bought a poppy – amazing that someone had such foresight! We reckoned that we were now about 4 degrees S. and 28 degrees W. We were now joined by the cruiser H.M.S. London and were also rejoined by the merchant cruiser. On 12.11.42 we spotted a Catalina flying boat so we knew land wasn’t too far away and from then on we saw aircraft every few hours. It reminded one of the dove with the olive branch. On 14.11.42 we were told we would be in port tomorrow.
AT 0530 next morning I got my first glimpse through a porthole of a low-lying stretch of land on the starboard with an orange-coloured beach, backed by trees, palm and deciduous. We were in an inlet running roughly north-south. A Brazilian biplane (it looked like an Italian C.R. 42) flew past and I spotted a Grumman Goose (American amphibian) and a Catalina – at least the aircraft recognition was paying off! There was a small harbour vessel with white-dressed pilots and officials to see us in, together with what appeared to be a tug (the “Aquina”). We were surrounded by canoes and skiffs of all sizes, fitted with sliding seats and crewed by handsome Brazilian boys. There were sailing boats looking somewhat like Red Sea feluccas. We saw loads of bananas and pineapples passing by and liberty men going ashore in launches. We had arrived at Bahia.
In the evening it was impressive, after weeks at sea and years in blacked-out England, to see all the lights ashore and red flashing street signs, together with the green flashes of trams. The land rose steeply from the sea shore with buildings at the foot and the top with trees in between.
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About 5 p.m. the next day our ship took the place of the “Athlone Castle” at the quayside. We had a London fire-engine pumping fresh water aboard and a British-made crane (Bath) loading stores. Some of the firemen threw oranges and bananas up to us. The water replenishment seemed to go on for quite a bit of the next day.
Wednesday 18.11.42 was a red-letter day. We went ashore for a couple of hours. (We had the “honour” of being the first Allied troops to land in Brazil after their belated declaration of war on the Axis). We were marched through the colourful streets, being followed by children who were delighted to have coins thrown to them. We halted and dismissed for a few minutes in a local park where there was a monument to the foundation of the Brazilian Republic. Everyone was after drinks and fruit, a complication being the exchange rate. I had a shilling, 100 reis = 1/4d.; 1,000 reis = 1 milreis. We then formed up and marched back to the ship.
We left Bahia the following afternoon on the final long leg of our journey to South Africa. We were escorted, presumably as a precaution against loitering U-boats, by a Brazilian “Harvard” fitted with bombs. Our convoy now consisted of three transports, two smaller ships, a destroyer and an armed merchant cruiser. By the next day we were well away from Bahia with no sign of U-boats.
Our time was occupied by tests in navigation, signals etc. We played chess and pontoon, and wrote letters (“airgraphs”). We listened to Wing Commander Ritchie, D.F.C., the author of “Fighter Pilot”. We had boat drills at regular intervals. Then on 25.11.42 we changed back into “blues”, and were duly inspected, prior to our second pay parade aboard the “Stirling Castle”.
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We estimated our position as roughly 25 degrees South and 5 degrees West, i.e. about halfway from Bahia to South Africa. I have a note on 27.11.42 that I saw the doctor and an albatross! I’d been bothered by bronchial catarrh for about a fortnight, possibly due to the stuffy conditions below decks at night-time. I used to take a book to the stairwell and read to get myself good and sleepy before climbing into my hammock so that I had a chance to fall asleep without coughing and disturbing everyone around. I can still remember the label “Mist. Expect.” on the medicine bottle in the sick bay which I visited at regular intervals!
During the next few days we were joined by a merchant cruiser and then saw two Venturas over our convoy. We were obviously in another danger zone and portholes had to be closed during the day as well as at night.
On the afternoon of 30.11.42 we sighted Table Mountain and very soon afterwards the wreckage from a ship torpedoed early that morning. By 8 p.m. we reckoned we were well east of Table Mountain when paravanes were brought into use against the possibility of sea-mines in the seas around the Cape.
We continued out of sight of land until on 4.12.42 we arrived at Durban. Everyone crowded on deck as we edged slowly into harbour at the end of our 5 weeks voyage. We were told to look out for the “Lady in White”, who made it her business to greet all the visiting troops at the dockside. Suddenly, there she was in a long white dress and picture hat.
She began to sing to us, using a megaphone, in a song clear voice several heart-warming songs such as “Rule Britannia”
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and finally “We’ll Meet Again”. At the end of her mini-concert the troops responded with cheers and whistles and the ships’ sirens joined in.
By 6 p.m. we had disembarked in our khaki uniforms and were entrained, six to a compartment, on our way to 48 Air School, a joint R.A.F./S.A.A.F. base, near East London. The journey was fascinating – I suppose being back on land and away from the ship helped a lot. We were back in civilised surroundings, a comfortable train and enjoyable meals served without us having to move a muscle. The scenery was magnificent, rolling hills with rocky outcrops. We often caught sight of forward and rear section of our train as we negotiated the snaking track. The evenings were notable for the brilliant displays of fireflies.
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[underlined] Chapter 3: South Africa [/underlined]
We reached Woodbrook, just three miles outside East London, on 6.12.42 after our two-day rail journey and were pleased by the wooden huts provided for our accommodation. We had an excellent dinner, filled in various bits of paperwork and got the bus into East London for the evening. It really was another world, walking through well-lit streets past well-filled shops, rather like a throw-back to 1939.
We discovered that new courses began every three weeks so we had quite a bit of time on our hands. In the meantime, I reported sick and got further treatment for bronchial catarrh, but really it was just a matter of time and it wasn’t long before I was O.K. again.
It wasn’t long before we were acclimatised, conditions being just about ideal in East London, temperatures being generally about 10 degrees F. warmer than we were used to in England. The coastal situation had quite a modifying effect compared with more inland Air Schools. We had the occasional sharp storm with heavy rain, but generally in short spasms, not enough to inconvenience our exploration and enjoyment of our unexpected “holiday”. Car lifts were readily available to and from the town. The harbour was usually worth a visit – we encountered various nationalities including Dutch seamen from a submarine depot ship. The shops were all set out for Christmas – this seemed at odds with an evening temperature of 70 degrees F. at 19.45 hours. A favourite indulgence was fresh strawberries and ice-cream in a local restaurant. For our entertainment and refreshment there were several volunteer-run facilities including the U-NO-ME Club, Toc H, and S.A.W.A.S., rather like the W.V.S. at home, where you could sit around and chat or play
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games. I was quite keen on table-tennis and snooker which I generally played with my pal Fred Rolph (an ardent Brentford F.C. supporter). It was also quite pleasant on the beach, or attending the “Colosseum” cinema. I also caught up with my correspondence, sending airgraphs and receiving letters from my parents, dated October.
Christmas Day was spent in the camp with lunch served by officers and sergeants. We went short of nothing. There was turkey, pork, pudding, cake, fruit, sweets, nuts, ices, beer etc. In the afternoon we rested and we had little room for tea.
It seemed a life in limbo. There was a world war going on many miles away but we were temporarily detached from it and waiting to get on the conveyor belt.
We obviously had some of our time occupied with lectures, drill etc., but were impatient to get on with something more meaningful. We were intrigued by the political situation and the segregation of the white and black communities. The coloured people did the menial jobs and seemed to accept their lot with resignation. They were housed generally in single-room huts on the outskirts of the European city. Quite a few thousands of black South Africans were enlisted in the Army but they served only in menial ways. Strangely enough they seemed quite keen on Army life. One day when I was on police guard near the main gate I witnessed a squad of them being drilled by one of their own N.C.O.s in their free time on the road just outside the camp. They put quite a lot of effort into it and were trying hard to be smart. They didn’t have any firearms, of course, or we might have been anxious! By and large, the R.A.F. lads sympathised with their situation in their own country.
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On 7.1.43 there were rumours of our course starting on 25.1.43. We filled in the time attending lectures, carrying out various duties, marching etc., and going into town when we were free. About this time I bought myself an Omega watch (£5.10s.) and a Tissot watch for my brother. The Omega watch is worth mentioning as I relied on it exclusively during all my navigation (training and operational). I got them from a Swiss jeweller’s shop in East London in early January ’43. (I still have the Omega, though it was accidentally broken around 1970).
We played a lot of table-tennis and snooker and I wrote home and to Walter Suddaby, and my brother Norman who was also in the R.A.F. (training as a wireless operator). Keeping up with the washing was another regular activity. My wash-day was usually at the weekend and consisted simply of washing my clothes in the wash basin using a bar of “Sunlight” soap, rinsing thoroughly and then spreading them out on large rocks in the sun to dry. Trousers were creased by placing them carefully under the mattress.
Eventually, we started our course proper on Monday 25.1.43, with three periods of dead-reckoning (D.R.) navigation, one period on instruments, two periods on signal procedure and one practicing on the Morse buzzer. From this time on we were kept solidly at our studies for the next eight weeks, including examinations to keep us up to the mark.
It was during this time, however, that Fred Rolph and I were invited to visit the home of Dr. G.J.C. Smyth of 30 St. Georges Road, in East London. He and his family were most hospitable and regularly entertained us when we and two other R.A.F. lads had a few hours to spare at weekends.
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We spent a lot of time in the spacious garden playing tenni-quoits, which was most enjoyable and enabled us to “let off steam”. We maintained this contact until just before we left South Africa. We didn’t see a lot of the Doctor himself, as he was pretty busy, but Mrs. Smyth and the family looked after us very well.
For the flying stage of our training I was posted on 27.3.43 to No. 41 Air School at Collondale which, I was pleased to discover, was only about eight miles from East London, thus enabling me to continue having pleasant weekend breaks at the Smyth’s. Fred wasn’t quite so fortunate, in that he was posted to No. 47 Air School near Queenstown, approximately 100 miles inland, which made it more awkward for his journeys to the Smyth’s. Fortunately he could make it by rail.
After the minimum time to settle in and only three days into our studies our class of twentyfour trainee navigators, divided into “A” and “B” flights, came face to face with reality by way of the Avro Anson. This was a twin-engined monoplane with a great safety record. I can recall it was already practically obsolete from a military point of view, being far too slow and almost unarmed, but provided a good steady platform for training purposes.
Appropriately, my first flight ever in an aircraft was on April 1st. (This by strange coincidence happened also to be the 25th. anniversary of the foundation of the Royal Air Force in 1918). I was first navigator with another pupil as second navigator in Anson “V” (3153) piloted by 2nd. Lieutenant McIndoe of the S.A.A.F. The aim was to give us air experience and to try out our map-reading skills while navigating as best we could from Potsdam, (a nearby village) around a laid-down
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cross-country route of about 250 miles. As first navigator I sat at the plotting table carrying out the chart plot and maintaining the log of events. The second navigator armed with a topographical map (i.e. showing the main ground features on the route) tries to identify features passing below the aircraft which are shown on his map. When he gets a positive identification he notes the spot on the map, the precise time of this observation and passes both pieces of information to the first navigator, who then plots them, using the latitude and longitude on his chart. This flight became the first entry in my flying log-book.
On subsequent flights the two navigators took it in turns to be first and second navigator.
The earlier trips were inclined to be a bit rough and ready technique-wise, but as experience increased we became more confident in our judgement of when to give the pilot an alteration of course. In reality, we had many factors in our favour, navigating in South Africa. The weather was generally very good and so was the visibility. The ground features were easy to interpret, nowhere near as congested as we were to encounter later back in Britain. The aircraft was usually only a few thousand feet up and the pilots were quite familiar with the territory, so although they played the game one was aware that they wouldn’t let things get out of hand navigation-wise. If you spotted a railway track it was a big help because there weren’t many railway lines in the whole of the area. Sizeable towns were few and far between and so were much more readily identified.
At this stage we were already encountering the fundamental problem of air navigation – estimating and allowing for the effect of the wind, a continually varying factor. As anyone observing a light aircraft flying in a crosswind will know,
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the aircraft doesn’t travel in exactly the direction it is pointing. It drifts sideways to an extent depending on the wind-speed and direction, (wind velocity). If the aircraft is supposed to be travelling from point A to point B it is not sufficient to point the nose directly at point B unless the wind is from dead ahead or dead astern, a most unlikely occurrence. One has to apply a correction to the heading according to the wind velocity. Knowing the aircraft’s heading from the compass and its airspeed from the airspeed indicator the navigator can plot an “air position” according to the time elapsed on that course. If at that time he can identify the actual position of the aircraft relative to the ground by visual or other means and plot that “fix”, the line joining the “air position” with the “fix” shows both the wind direction and the effect of the wind over the time of the plot and hence the wind velocity. This velocity can then be used as the most up-to-date information for use in making any necessary alteration of course to allow for the wind effect.
We proceeded with ever more sophisticated exercises as the course progressed, flying mainly with South African but occasionally R.A.F. pilots and included photography, astro-navigation (night-flying), over sea exercises, formation flights, flame-float exercises (also involving night flying), and low-level map reading.
Meanwhile we were kept hard at it with our ground studies which involved D.R. (Dead Reckoning) theory, D.R. plotting, compasses meteorology, maps and charts, instruments, radio navigation, reconnaissance, photography, aircraft recognition, signals (both lamp and buzzer) and Astro-navigation.
With any subject involving calculations I found no real difficulty because I had always enjoyed Maths. Notwithstanding
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the confidence this gave me, I could not see much relevance between the training we were getting and the realities of operating at heights of 10,000 to 20,000 feet on dark nights with the ground practically invisible, under enemy fire. Astro-navigation seemed to be about the only independent means of navigation, but when one thought about what that entailed in practice it didn’t seem such a good idea. Inherently Astro-navigation did not appeal to me as sufficiently accurate. In order to get a fix one needed to take observations by sextant on three stars distributed at reasonable angles in the night sky through the perspex dome in the roof of the bomber aircraft, each observation taking a minimum of 2-3 minutes, not forgetting to note the time of the observation and having to calculate a position line from a book of tables and transfer it along the track on the chart. Then, if one was lucky, one had three lines which crossed producing a sizeable triangle, somewhere within which lay, hopefully, the position of the aircraft. The biggest criticism was the vulnerability of an aircraft flying straight and level at a steady airspeed for up to ten minutes over predicted anti-aircraft fire and being followed by night fighters with radar. At this stage I was puzzled how the job could be done and I just had to hope that all would be revealed in the fullness of time. Meanwhile, I was thankful not to have experienced any ill effects from my encounter with aviation and felt that I should be able to cope reasonably well in the future.
It must have seemed very tame for some of our South African pilots after coming from combat in North Africa to spend time “taxi-driving” we “sprog” navigators. We heard strange stories about some of their antics as they tried to relieve the boredom, but the Anson was a most tolerant aircraft and almost flew itself. In my log book I have the names Jooste, Nasmith, Efroiken, Van Rensburg, Moll, Mannheim, Van
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Heerden, Steyn and Duveen, along with R.A.F. pilots Cowan and Hill.
Suddenly, on 1.7.43 I, with four other members of pour course (No. 12) at 41 Air School was sent for interview by W/C Pettit and two Squadron Leaders. I was genuinely taken by surprise, wearing a somewhat scruffy battledress with two or three buttons missing. I had nothng [sic] to lose and I ran down the C.E.B. exams in general. I noted “it seemed to work”.
The following day, more prepared on this occasion, I was interviewed by Group Captain O’Grady. I was stumped by a question on details of the D.F.C. He was very pleasant and at the end I felt I would have liked to have another interview, knowing more about him. It turned out that I was considered O.K. for commissioning, along with John Tebbut from “A” flight.
I was somewhat surprised, considering that I had at no time applied for or even thought about a commission at this early stage in my training. More so, because during the first interview I had rejected the possibility of staying in South Africa as an instructor on the grounds that pupils would be likely to take more notice of instructors with operational experience. I omitted to say that I would have felt like the blind leading the blind.
[underlined] Results of Courses from 29.3.43 to 10.7.43
Air Navigation Course No. 12 Held at 41 A.S. South Africa [/underlined]
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[underlined] Subject – Poss. – Obtd. [/underlined]
D.R. Theory – 100 – 63
D.R. Plotting – 300 – 229
Compasses – 100 – 74
Meteorology – 100 – 72
Maps and Charts – 100 – 94
Instruments – 100 – 76
Radio Navigation – 100 – 79
Reconnaissance – 100 – 72/A
Photography – 100 – 94/AA
A/C Recognition – P. – P.
Signals – 100 – 96
Astro-Navigation – 100 – 97
Flying times on Course Day 76.45 Night 17.20
A/C Type Anson
Air Exercise Assessment AA (Above Average)
[underlined] TOTAL MARKS OBTAINED 81 PERCENT PASSED [/underlined]
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Remarks: An Above Average Navigator
Signed by W/Commander Pettit
There were still three more air navigational exercises to fit in before our graduation day on 10.7.43. To present our brevets we had Rear-Admiral Scott. When it came to my turn the conversation was as follows:-
“Where do you come from, my boy?” “Hull, Yorkshire, Sir.”
“There’s not much of Hull left is there?” “No, Sir.” etc.
The evening celebration was quite informal but the Group Captain did take the opportunity to compliment us on a good parade.
A big dampener, as far as I was concerned, was the news I had received from Fred Rolph, about the time I had my first interview for a commission. He’d made a mess of the Astro-Navigation exam and then came up against a problem in the D.R. Plotting. He said in his letter of 29.6.43, “Do you think I could remember how to do it? I sat there cudgelling my brains and thinking of Edna” (his girl-friend back home) ”and the Astro exam and I couldn’t think how to do it.” He tried to remedy the plotting but only succeeded in getting deeper in the mire. In fact he needn’t have worried so much about the Astro exam – he obtained 67 percent, but he didn’t know how. It was worrying unnecessarily about the Astro that contributed to his failure in the D.R. Plotting. The outcome was that nine members of his course, including Fred had to re-sit their D.R. Plotting exam a day or two before I was getting my brevet. This meant a delay of three weeks for Fred but he added a P.S. “Edna won’t mind waiting three weeks extra after nine months. (I hope!)”.
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Unfortunately those three weeks meant that he never caught up with me again, and his next letter, posted from the Smyth home on 26.7.43 didn’t catch up with me until four months later, when I had no idea where he would be.
I had done my packing and said goodbye to the Smyth’s and boarded the train for Cape Town. Denis Smyth, probably about eighteen or nineteen years old, took me to the station by car, followed the train and saw me again at Cambridge just down the line. I was really sorry to leave the Smyth’s, after all their kindness. Next day, Tuesday, we passed through Queenstown very early in the morning, and on Wednesday afternoon we arrived at Cape Town. We completed the journey to the I.F.T.C. Westlake (Imperial Forces Transit Camp) by electric railway and we were ensconced in Hut 6/26.
During the next ten days I explored part of Cape Town and did some shopping. I managed to get items such as 1/2 yd. braid (pilot officer), a badge, some shirts, shoes, socks, gloves, hankies, and a raincoat and posted several small parcels of goodies to the family in England.
On Sunday, 25.7.43 I settled up my mess fees, collected my pay and a £15 travelling allowance, packed the little that remained to be packed and was transferred at the last minute to the draft prior to the one I had expected. In a very short time we boarded the “Mauretania”. There were eight of us in a cabin, but it was luxurious compared with the hammocks and benches in the “Stirling Castle”. There were five R.A.F. Pilot Officers, two Navy types and one civilian attached to the R.A.F. Next morning we sailed for England about 11 a.m., after a boat drill at 10 a.m.
Like the “Queen Elizabeth”, the “Mauretania” was
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constructed just before the war and proved extremely useful in transporting troops throughout the war. The “Mauretania” alone carried more than 380,000 troops during 55 voyages and must have been a high priority target for German U-boats. My brother travelled to Canada in the “Mauretania” for his aircrew training, shortly afterwards.
Our accommodation was section C3 on C Deck and our Mess No. 69. Mealtimes were pleasant affairs – I have an autographed menu from the luncheon on Wednesday August 11th 1943 in the Officers’ dining room. Nothing pretentious of course, but a big leap back to civilised behaviour. In contrast, acting as orderly officer one day, accompanied by a corporal I had the job of seeing the other side of life and asking the airmen on the mess decks for “Any complaints?” Thankfully everyone seemed reasonably happy with their lot.
So we passed our time in comfort on our fairly direct (apart from a brief call at Freetown), journey back to Liverpool. This took about half of the five weeks of our outward journey on the “Stirling Castle”. By this time the submarine menace had been reduced considerably.
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[photograph of three men and one woman]
[page break
[photograph of the crew with signatures]
[page break]
[underlined and centred] Chapter 4: Back to England [/underlined and centred]
Once we docked in Liverpool we were soon on the train and on our way to No. 7 P.R.C. (presumably Personnel Receiving Centre) at Harrogate on 14.8.43. From there we went on our disembarkation leave. I believe I got most of my officer’s uniform fixed up in Hull and maybe some items in Harrogate, where we had to return before posting.
On 8.9.43 my posting came to 3(O) A.F.U., Halfpenny Green, an airfield situated in the West Midlands between Bridgnorth and Dudley. (Today it is a civil airport). There during the next few weeks, I was to take part in No. 138 Air Observers Advance Navigation Course. It seemed an impressive title although a little anachronistic when the replacement of Observers by Navigators had already spread to South Africa and Canada with the Empire Training Scheme. We were already wearing the “N” brevets which replaced the previous observer “O”, as we arrived for the course.
The “advanced navigation course” conducted on Ansons served two purposes. It showed us the difference between map-reading over the wide-open spaces of South Africa, where it was relatively easy to pick out significant features such as a main road or a railway line, and the more complex problem in European map-reading. The more densely populated areas introduced a corresponding profusion of ground detail. Secondly, it extended our experience quite logically without the further complication, on a short course, which might have been occasioned by using an unfamiliar aircraft. On the other hand, the disquieting feeling remained over the relevance of map reading from a few thousand feet, half the time in daylight, compared with the coming operational navigation mainly at
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night, largely out of sight of the ground and at around 20,000 feet, while covering the ground more rapidly in a four-engined aircraft and with the added distractions caused by the opposition.
The thirty-eight and a half hours flying time accrued at Halfpenny Green, brought my total flying time to one hundred and thirty-two and a half hours, roughly one-quarter being night flying. My one recollection of those days was, on the completion of a particular night exercise, walking from the airfield to the hut on a beautiful Autumn night along a narrow country road with not a soul in sight and humming a popular tune of those days.
The next posting was to No. 84 O.T.U. (Operational Training Unit) at Desborough in Northamptonshire. That was on 12.10.43. This was a recently established O.T.U. and the roadways had only been laid that Autumn. It was also pretty wet weather during the first few weeks there and we aircrew, marching between our Nissen huts and lectures found ourselves on roads covered with mud from the soil excavated during their construction and piled nearby.
The O.T.U. was equipped with Vickers Wellington twin-engined bombers, which had been the main-stay of Bomber Command for some time but was being progressively replaced by four-engined types. However, the Wellingtons, or “Wimpeys” as they were usually called, looked large and impressive and very business-like compared with the Anson to which I was accustomed.
Other huts were occupied by other categories of aircrew – pilots, bomb-aimers, wireless operators and air-gunners. Very soon we would have to perform the transition from individuals to aircrews. To this end we were assembled in a large hangar and
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told to get ourselves sorted out. This was very much a lottery. We were teaming up with people we had never met before to undertake dangerous operations during which we would be bound to depend implicitly on these strangers being able to do their jobs efficiently. I suppose this was accepted because we were “all in the same boat”. In hindsight, I don’t think anyone could have suggested a rational alternative.
I cannot remember just how it came about but I found myself “crewed up” with three sergeants (pilot, Chris Derrick; wireless operator, John (Jock) Poyner; a rear gunner, Tom Gibb from Glasgow), and a Pilot Officer bomb-aimer making up the crew of five for the Wellington. This was the stage at which the division between commissioned and non-commissioned aircrew became apparent. We commissioned “types” were quartered in huts segregated from the huts of the N.C.O.s, and we had separate messes. We attended lectures according to our aircrew duties, e.g. navigator or whatever and only got together as a crew when flying was in the offing. It wasn’t done for officers and N.C.0.s to go around in “matey” groups.
On the morale-boosting side, we navigators were soon relieved to learn that our big worry about how we could possibly navigate accurately at night would be considerably relieved by our introduction to an almost magical device known as a Gee box. Basically this measured the aircraft’s distance from each of two ground stations and where these measurements coincided gave the geographical position of the aircraft. On the debit side it was jammable by the enemy and could not be relied upon beyond the enemy coast. Nevertheless it would give us a sound beginning to our task when we went out on operational flights.
We flew in a “Wimpey” for the first time on 8.11.43 with
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a “screened” pilot instructing our pilot, Sgt. Derrick on the take-offs, circuits and landings, commonly known as “circuits and bumps”. The significance of this dawned on me in the course of time.
Our pilot was given his solo check, went solo (with members of the crew) and had three further lots of “circuits and bumps”. Then we took the gunners on an air-firing exercise and did some dual “circuits and bumps”, two thirds of them with six different screened pilots. I think we must have met most of the instructors of “B” flight, some of them several times. Sometimes we were airborne several times a day, four times on three occasions. Our pilot seemed to have some trouble with his steering around the perimeter track and wandered off it occasionally. When this happened we were liable to be bogged down as the ground was so muddy.
On a couple of occasions I flew in the rear turret because the gunners were occupied with ground training and the policy was for there always to be a pair of eyes in the rear turret to warn of the proximity of other aircraft both in the air and on the ground. I did not care for the cramped conditions and I cared less about the landings, when my helmeted head hit the turret. In my ignorance I thought it was just one of the things that went with flying heavy aircraft. I was thankful I was a navigator.
Now the bomb-aimer had to “get in” a bit of practical work, dropping eleven and a half pound practice bombs at the local bombing range. We had been to the bombing range once at night and once by day, both times with a “screened” pilot. Now we had to carry out the same exercises “solo”. The high-level bombing by day was carried out, apparently satisfactorily but night bombing presented difficulties. We had bomb-sight trouble
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on a number of occasions and four attempts were aborted. On the last occasion our bomb aimer was sick and on our return to base our pilot reported “bomb-aimer u/s” instead of “bomb-sight u/s”.
At this stage we parted company with Chris Derrick – he was considered unsuitable as the pilot of heavy bomber aircraft. We heard that he carried on flying Oxfords, twin-engined aircaft. [sic] We also saw no more of our bomb aimer, F/O Valentine. I missed listening to his gramophone and classical records of an evening.
During these early weeks we were rudely brought up against the realities of the job. One of our Wellingtons was shot down one night by a German intruder aircraft from a height of about 10,000 feet, possibly on a practice bombing exercise. Two members of the crew, including the F/Lt pilot, who had some operational experience on other aircraft, were fellow occupants of the same hut as Valentine and myself. I was one of the bearers at the funeral service in the local church.
Within a few days we had a replacement pilot, Sgt. Redman, a rather taciturn character and we were transferred from “B” flight to “D” flight. We also had a replacement bomb-aimer, Sgt. Tommy Crook.
Obviously Sgt. Redman had already satisfied the Air Force that he was competent to fly Wellingtons because, without any preliminaries whatsoever, our first outing with him was on a daylight cross-country (i.e. navigational exercise) in the company of a screened pilot. That was on 28.12.43. By the 10.1.44 we were completing our series of navigation exercises (in which we suffered simulated attacks by R.A.F. fighters) in what must have been record time, as the Air Force attempted to
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makes us catch up on lost time.
Unfortunately the cross-country on Route 92/19 turned out to be a somewhat traumatic experience. (In those days I don’t think the word “traumatic” was part of the vocabulary as it is today). Part of the route during a five and a half hour flight took us about 100 miles out over the North Sea and everything was going satisfactorily and the Gee set was working O.K. when Sgt. Redman suddenly announced that the aircraft had stalled. In front of me on the navigator’s table, was a duplicate altimeter, showing 8,000 feet. I watched, somewhat numbly, as the needle began to “unwind”. I can only suppose the other crew members were similarly afflicted. There was certainly no chatter and no panic.
We all knew that the next words from the pilot were most likely to be “Prepare for ditching” which would mean taking up positions to minimise injury when the aircraft hit the sea. The altimeter continued to “unwind”. There was no instruction from our pilot to the wireless operator to try to inform base of our predicament and no word as to what was happening. At 4,000 feet, halfway down to the cold North Sea with virtually no chance of survival, the aircraft levelled off, still without a word of explanation from our pilot. It transpired what had happened was that the pitot tube, which feeds the air pressure for the airspeed indicator had “iced up” so the air-speed appeared to fall. The pilot, partly through inexperience, had feared the worst and informed us accordingly. We were relieved to get “home”.
In unanimous agreement the crew decided that we had no confidence in our pilot and did not wish to fly with him again. Because of my commission, I had the unpleasant job of forwarding the crew’s views to our superiors and we did not
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meet Sgt. Redman again. However, by the contribution of our two pilots, the rest of the crew were deemed to have completed the O.T.U. course, and after a spot of leave we were posted to a holding unit at Methwold, in Suffolk on 8.2.44.
It must have been at Methwold that, whilst puzzling over the fate of our temporarily headless crew, I happened to meet an American lieutenant pilot serving with the R.A.F. He had a very English name, Braithwaite, and hailed from Hollywood and had lots of flying hours behind him before he left the U.S.A. He was waiting to be given a crew. He didn’t have a pronounced American accent and discussing our mutual situation we got on very well together. We both thought it would be the ideal solution if we could join forces, i.e. if he could take our pilotless crew. Unfortunately, the authorities preferred to give him a crew who had lost their pilot doing an operation as second pilot with another crew for experience before operating with his own crew.
Our crew was posted on 25.2.44 to No. 1653 H.C.U. at Chedburgh, (also in Suffolk), which was in No. 3 Group of Bomber Command. Here we were in the land of the Stirling four-engined bomber – we would much rather have been on Lancasters. However, looking back on those days, I am certain that it was a turning point as far as our crew was concerned. In addition to acquiring a new pilot, Sgt. G.F. (Fred) Holbrook and a mid-upper gunner, Sgt. Stan Swain, we were joined by our flight engineer, Sgt. Johnny Squires, an extremely useful asset over the next six months or so. Johnny was already serving in the Army when the war started and had got to the rank of Captain in the Black Watch, pretty good going considering he wasn’t much taller than my five foot six and a half inches! Anyway, during the middle years of the war the Army had a comb-out of junior officers of 40 years and more and it was
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decided that he would be better employed in his basic occupation, engineering, in civilian life. He was not enraptured with the idea and, knocking ten years off his age, joined the R.A.F. for aircrew training as a flight engineer.
He was, of course, much older than the rest of us. I was just coming up to 22, our wireless operator, John Poyner, was just 22 and Fred Holbrook was probably about the same age. The rest of the crew were younger, the gunners probably 19 or 20. You could say he was almost a father-figure, but we daren’t have suggested any such thing at the time.
He was really first class at the job, always calm and never at a loss, whatever the circumstances. He was a really steadying influence and, personally, having already “lost” two pilots along the way and now having a third unknown factor taking over, I felt much happier about our future knowing that Johnny was sitting up there alongside Fred. That feeling was reinforced as we progressed steadily with the local flying and then with navigational exercises on Stirlings (Mark I and III).
The Stirling, which was the first of the R.A.F.’s four-engined bombers, built to a 1936 specification, gave the impression of a long dinosaur waiting to attack or pounce. The undercarriage was enormous and at first sight made me wonder what the altimeter in the cockpit read! It was a good aircraft but had serious limitations, the main one being its maximum altitude. I understand that this was due to its wingspan being limited by the standard hangar width of the day.
Whilst other Bomber Command aircraft normally operated at about 20,000 feet, this ‘plane could barely manage 15,000, so it seemed it would be unwise to get mixed up with
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people dropping things from a mile above.
After five weeks at Chedburgh we were able to erase such thoughts from our imagination as we went on leave prior to being transferred to the Lancaster Finishing School at Hemswell in No. 1 Group. I still have one souvenir from the Stirling era, a horizontal scar on the bridge of my nose, due to colliding with the rear end of the tailplane whilst walking around a Stirling on a very dark night. Fortunately it was only local flying – not a navigational trip – and I was able to clamp my first aid dressing on to the spot immediately and stop the bleeding until we returned. That was to be the only injury I sustained in the Air Force.
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Walter Suddaby
I kept in touch with Walter at varying intervals throughout our R.A.F. careers and I knew he’d been with his crew to 1658 H.C.U. (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Riccall (halfway between York and Selby) to train on Halifax bombers. I had plenty of reminders when I later travelled through Riccall on my way to and from work at Selby. I heard when he got onto 158 Squadron at Lissett, near Bridlington and then no more.
I cannot remember just how it happened that his brother, Frank, cycled over from their home in North Hull and found me home on leave, but his tidings were terrible and I was shocked. Walter had been killed in extremely unfortunate circumstances. In “The Bomber Battle for Berlin”, Air Commodore John Searby explains what happened on the night of 24/25th March 1944. “Over the Dutch coast P/O Simpson” (Walter’s pilot) “called base saying his port and starboard outer engines were damaged”. (It would be Walter transmitting the message). “and nothing more was heard until he was reported having crashed at the water’s edge at Ingham near Cromer, Norfolk, where a minefield was laid years before against possible invasion. The aircraft blew up and all were killed.” Apparently, having little altitude, the pilot attempted a crash landing on the beach, and had either forgotten about the mined beaches or had little alternative but to take the risk.
A later publication, by W.R, Chorley. reported the crash as happening on the sand dunes near Winterton-on-Sea, Norfolk.
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[underlined] Chapter 5: Operations 1-20 [/underlined]
I can still remember my first close-up encounter with the Lancaster – no, I didn’t bump my nose. Compared with the ungainly appearance of the Stirling, the Lancaster looked sleek and business-like. On entering the cockpit I was greatly impressed by the appearance of the in-line Rolls Royce Merlin engines, of which I had heard so much since I became interested in aviation. My confidence soared. It increased further when I heard about the H2S (air-borne radar equipment) and the A.P.I. (air position indicator). Not that I had any time for practice at Hemswell – the object of the exercise was the transference from one four-engined bomber (the Stirling) to the other (the Lancaster) which mainly meant lots of take-offs and landings for our pilot and familiarisation with the new aircraft and its numerous instrument panels and dials for pilot (Fred) and flight engineer (Johnny).
We were airborne for a total of barely eleven hours (some day and some night) during our brief stay at Hemswell and in no time at all we were making the short journey, on 26.4.44, by crew bus I believe, to Wickenby and No. 12 Squadron. At Wickenby, which was a war-time constructed airfield, I was again segregated from the rest of the crew as they were all sergeants. My accomodation [sic] on the officers’ site was in a Nissen hut, similar to that of the crew on the N.C.O.S’ site, which I later wandered over to inspect.
I had a distinctly unusual and rather disquieting introduction to my new “home”. There was only one person there when I arrived, P/O Adam (Jock) Varrie, who I believe hailed from Lockerbie. (Currently domiciled in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe). He had lost his crew on operations whilst he was ill,
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and had been given the job of assistant to the Flight Engineer Leader. He had arrived at Wickenby in September ’43 and had done quite a lot of ops. before losing his crew. He told me that during his time at Wickenby he knew of only one crew and “one odd bod” who had survived a tour of 30 operations, i.e. from the two squadrons Nos. 12 and 626, operating from Wickenby. I decided there was no point in worrying and to take a limited objective.
I had a few science books with me and I did look at them on several occasions but I decided to defer the idea. Instead, I suppose partly in bravado, I decided to read Tolstoy’s “War and Peace” which I found in the Library at Wickenby Officers’ Mess. I wondered how far I’d get with it under the circumstances. I did in fact get through the lot, more than 1,000 pages, in instalments! For moral support I said the “Lord’s Prayer” each night as I lay in bed, trying to give full interpretation to the words. Secondly (and rather trivially) I always polished by flying boots before going off to briefings. It was rather foolish in hindsight, because if I’d had to parachute down in enemy territory, polished boots would not have been a good idea, if one was trying to evade capture even if you managed to rear off the leg parts. Looking back, I suppose it was a case of “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition”.
At the Navigation Office I encountered F/Lt. R. Stancliffe, our Squadron Navigation Officer and was impressed by his relaxed and friendly attitude. I soon encountered something which I found very inspirational. In some pigeon holes or racks in the Nav. Office there were a few navigators’ logs, one of which left an enduring impression on me. It had been compiled by F/O D.A. Colombo who had gone missing, along with his crew, on the Berlin raid of 24/25 March ’44, i.e.
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just over a month earlier and the one on which Walter Suddaby and his crew were lost. His log seemed to me like a work of art, hardly the kind of craftsmanship one would have believed possible, given the circumstances prevailing at that particularly hazardous period in the history of Bomber Command. I decided, then and there, that if I couldn’t make Colombo’s standard I’d have a good try. I never met him but I never forgot him.
Our crew was placed in “B” Flight of 12 Squadron and we were airborne just twice, both on 28.4.44, for “fighter affiliation” (i.e. dodging a Spitfire) combined with air-sea firing practice for the gunners and a simulated night attack on Bristol. I don’t remember whether we managed to fit in a short leave but just over a week later we were detailed for our first op. on 7.5.44.
The first and second ops. were not very demanding, one on a target near Rennes in France and the second to a target in Belgium. The latter attack was aborted on the instruction of the Master Bomber, due to poor visibility and we were ordered to return with our load.
Between our first and third ops. we got in quite a lot of navigational practice (and much needed H2S practice) on five cross-country exercises. This period also helped very considerably in getting us working together as a crew and becoming familiar with our surroundings, both aloft and on the station.
Our third and fourth ops. were on German territory, but only just over the border from Belgium. They were attacks on two marshalling yards at Aachen and met with considerable resistance, the loss rates being 6 percent in the first case and 7 percent in the
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second.
Railway marshalling yards were beginning to assume very considerable importance in view of the impending invasion of Europe by the Allied Armies. Anything that would impede the free transit of German forces to the coast could obviously be helpful to our forces, and Aachen was an important railway junction in that respect.
On the second of the Aachen trips we made the aquaintance[sic] of Lancaster Mk.1 ME758, PH-N, the former being the Manufacturers (Metropolitan Vickers) number and the latter comprising No. 12 Squadron’s letters and the aircraft letter. This was to become our regular aircraft, in which we were to do 25 of our 30 ops. The Aachen trip was N-Nan’s tenth.
On all night operations and quite a lot of the day ones I travelled secluded from the outer world by my black-out curtain. I sat at the navigation table, which was situated to the rear of the pilot’s armoured back-rest (the only armour in the aircraft), facing the port (left) side of the aeroplane. The reason for the black-out precaution was, of course, the angle-poise light which illuminated my chart and navigation log. Any emerging light would not have been appreciated by the crew as a whole and would not have been good for the pilot’s night vision.
I had devised my personal system of navigation in an effort to simplify the calculations. In fact, I had gone decimal and worked in tenths of hours and tenths of minutes instead of minutes and fractions. For example, in the early stages of an operation when I wanted to ascertain the actual wind velocity, which was ever-changing and sometimes considerably at variance with the meteorological information, I took Gee-fixes at
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6-minute intervals or sometimes 12, knowing it was then simple mental arithmetic to multiply the measured vector from the air position (thank goodness for the A.P.I.) to the fix by 10 or 5 respectively to find the wind speed in knots (nautical miles per hour). This saved a lot of messing about with the manual computer.
It was just as essential to keep in touch with the wind velocity as with your actual position so that you had the ability to correct your course in order to hit the next turning point on your route. It was always a case of working with hind-sight. You could only assume that the wind affecting you over the next few miles would be similar to what you had just experienced.
Miscellaneous observations such as times of bombs being fused and released, times to drop and rates of dropping of “window” (i.e. anti-radar aluminised strips), times and rough location of the positions of aircraft being shot down (including some alleged to be “scarecrow” devices fired into the air by the enemy to pretend they were R.A.F. aircraft which had been destroyed in mid-air), whether parachutes were seen, sightings of enemy aircraft, target indicators, radio information via the wireless operator, and anything which might be of use to “intelligence”, all had to be logged with time of occurrence and estimated positions relative to our aircraft and its heading.
We fitted in yet another cross-country exercise on 29.5.44 for H2S practice. (See page 88. for technical details). The log book entry reads “Window (aircraft) lost and aileron damaged. A.S.I. (Air Speed Indicator) read 360 m.p.h. plus in dive”. The necessary repairs were soon made.
With the invasion imminent we got a number of short-
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haul trips, including attacks on a radar-jamming station near Dieppe which was later found to have been made “with great accuracy”, a gun position at Sangatte, near Calais, (as part of a deception programme to keep the enemy guessing where the landings would come), and the attack on a coastal battery at St. Martin de Varreville on the Normandy coast on the eve of the invasion. On the latter occasion the H2S screen was covered with numerous luminous pin-point echoes of the invasion fleet on its way across the Channel.
On the next evening we were supposed to bomb a railway switch-line at Acheres in the suburbs of Paris, but there was too much cloud for the safety of French civilians so the Master Bomber ordered us to return with our loads. (Not much fun, landing with a full bomb load!)
That counted as our eighth operation. The next couple of night operations were also concerned with inhibiting the Hun, one being against a landing-ground at Flers in Southern Normandy and the other attacking the important railway junction of Evreux, about 50 miles west of Paris. So far our ten ops. had not been too stressful and had averaged only about four and a half hours night flying.
Targets were marked by the Pathfinder Force (PFF) with various coloured devices which could be varied according to pre-arranged plans during the period of the attack and could be over-ridden by instructions from the “Master of Ceremonies” (Master Bomber) according to eventualities arising during the progress of the raid.
By the time I was operating, the P.F.F. system had been developed over the better part of two years into a formidable
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system, but there were occasional human errors. When this happened the whole or part of a raid could go awry.
On the night of 12/13 June 1944 we took part in the first raid of a new oil campaign, the target being the Nordstern synthetic oil plant at Gelsenkirchen in the Ruhr. In addition to my normal duties I was one of a number of navigators on the operation to be detailed for “wind-finding”. The idea was for the force as a whole to have the benefit of the information obtained from selected navigators and apply it to their individual needs. We calculated the wind velocities at successive stages en route and had our wireless operators transmit the coded information back to base for analysis and consideration by meteorological staff, who then reported back to the main force the outcome of their deliberations in terms of up-to-date information on wind vehicles.
From my log for the trip I see that I sent back wind velocities from seven stages of the outward and return trips. I was quite happy with the navigation and had given the pilot the final correction to the course to the target, then calculated and given a wind velocity to Jock Poyner, our wireless operator, when our pilot spotted what he believed to be the target markers about 30 degrees to starboard and altered course towards them despite my disbelief, when we were approximately 20 miles from the target. Our clear instructions were to bomb the markers so that is what happened. We bombed just after 0101 hours, i.e. within our allotted range of 0100 to 0104 hours.
Many years later I read an illuminating account in “Bomber Command News” in an article spanning “Six months in the life of Bomber Command, a day-by-day account of support for the Allied invasion forces.” This covered the period 23.5.44
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to 31.12.44, including the attack on Gelsenkirchen. It reported – “Owing to the good work of the Pathfinders the attack opened with exceptional accuracy. Later a rogue target indicator fell ten miles short of target and was bombed by 35 aircraft. All production at the oil plant ceased with a loss of 1,000 tons of aviation fuel a day for several weeks.” On my part, I compared the photograph taken automatically when our bombs were released, with the large wall mosaic in the Intelligence library of photographs taken by R.A.F. reconnaissance aircraft. Not having the benefit of the information which was quoted so many years later in “Bomber Command News”, I estimated from our last alteration of course before the target approximately where to look on this huge map for the place we had actually bombed.
From a few distinctive features on our photograph I was able to find the matching spot on the wall map – with a difference. Our picture showed unmistakably a dispersal point on the perimeter of an airfield which must have been constructed during the years since the reconnaissance photographs were taken. So the airfield personnel probably had an exciting night! The probable explanation is that whilst the real target was obscured by thick smoke from burning oil, the markers dropped ten miles away in open country were clearly visible. Seventeen Lancasters were lost, 6.1% of the Lancaster force of 286.
For a bit of variation we flew the following night for a couple of hours practicing night fighter evasion (with an R.A.F. fighter).
On the evenings of 14th and 15th June ’44 we operated in Bomber Command’s first daylight raids since May ’43. The objectives were the fast German motor torpedo boats (E-boats) and other light German naval forces based at Le Havre and
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Boulogne, which were threatening Allied shipping off the Normandy beaches. We flew in loose “gaggles” (there had been no training in formation flying) escorted by Spitfires of 11 Group. The E-boat threat to the invasion beaches was almost completely removed. R.A.F. casualties were very light.
We next had an aborted attack on a switch-line at Aulnoye, about 20 miles south of Mons. After a discussion between the Master Bomber and his deputy it was decided not to risk civilian casualties as it was too cloudy to bomb with accuracy, so we set off back with our loads, jettisoning the delayed-action bombs shortly after we left the French coast.
On the night of 12/13 June ’44 the Germans began their V-1 (flying bomb) attacks on London. Between 15-16 and 16-17 June, 144 flying bombs crossed the Kent coast and 73 reached London. This stung the British authorities into action and Eisenhower, the Supreme Commander of the invasion forces, agreed that retaliatory action (code name CROSSBOW) should rank second in priority only to the urgent needs of the battlefield. From mid-June to mid-August attacks on V-weapon objectives became one of Bomber Command’s major concerns, absorbing about 40% of its effort and correspondingly reducing its ability to bomb Germany.
Our first involvement came with a daylight attack on a flying-bomb site about 10 miles south-west of Calais. As the promised target indicators were not visible at the stated time we bombed on the Gee co-ordinates. That was on 22.6.44.
I think we must have had a week’s leave after our 15th “op”, because “N-Nan” flew five operations with three other crews before we returned to the fray. Then it was back to the
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Pas de Calais to attack the Domleger V-1 site, (my log says “flying-bomb supply lines”) in another daytime operation on 2.7.44. It was rather cloudy so again we “homed” to the target on Gee before the bomb-aimer, Tommy Crook, was able to take over and bomb visually.
Now followed a trio of fairly lengthy night operations all involving railway marshalling yards at important centres in France. On the nights of 4/5, 5/6, and 12/13 July, we visited successively Orleans, Dijon, and Tours (not exactly Cook’s tours). On the first night the loss rate was 5 percent, on the second nil, and on the third about 3 percent. This was rather strange because the Dijon trip was by far the longer route, taking eight and a quarter hours, compared with about six hours for each of the others. The results were satisfactory, particularly at Orleans.
I had cause to remember the bombing of the French railway system just over a year later when involved in flying our forces home on leave from Italy because the French railway system was still in a mess from our efforts in 1944 (see later). There was also an occasion when I was attending a symposium on analytical chemistry at Birmingham University in either 1954 or 1958 when I became involved in a discussion with a young French scientist, whilst queueing at the refectory. When he asked me if I’d been to France, I said “Not exactly” and admitted I hadn’t set foot in France although I had visited during the war.
I had no idea what his reaction would be, and was greatly relieved and pleased when he slapped me on the back and spoke warmly of his admiration for the way the R.A.F. had managed to knock out railway goods yards close to the towns whilst causing the minimum of civilian casualties. He did not have such a good opinion of the U.S.A.A.F. with whom he chose to make the
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comparison. I wish that I had made a note of his name and address! It was a completely unsolicited testimonial. After a gap of another week we went on our 20th operation to the railway yards and junction at Courtrai (or Kortrijk as the Belgians have it nowadays). Both targets were devastated. Casualties were 3 percent.
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[black and white photograph of 7 airmen in uniform standing in a row in front of a Nissen hut]
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[underlined] Chapter 6: Operations 21-30 [/underlined]
Taking part in the first major raid on a German city for two months, on the night of 23/24 July, we went to Kiel. It was our twentyfirst [sic] operation. The elaborate deception and the surprise return to a German target must have confused the opposition because Bomber Command lost only four aircraft out of 629 taking part. Kiel suffered heavy damage. The bombing force appeared suddenly from behind a Mandrel jamming screen, operated by the Radio Counter-Measures squadrons of 100 Group, and took the defences by surprise. In the space of 25 minutes nearly 3,000 tons of bombs fell on the town and port, inflicting enormous damage to the U-boat yards and many other areas.
Rescue and repair was hampered by 500 delayed-action bombs and unexploded duds. There was no water for three days, no trains and buses for eight days and no gas for cooking for three weeks. Looking at my log, I see that I had a fault on the H2S and also that when we were well on the way home I had a dabble with the bubble sextant, taking three star shots for practice. I was glad I wasn’t dependent on them.
On the night of 24/25 July we took part in the first of three heavy raids on Stuttgart. This was a more arduous trip, the return trip taking eight hours forty minutes. I had to Sellotape two Mercator charts together to lay down the route which took us via Normandy and south of Orleans to just beyond 9 degrees E longitude, and the majority of two double-sided log forms. Once again, I had the added duty of “wind-finding” for the main force. As it happened, the winds were the lightest I encountered on operations, barely reaching 20 knots at any stage and often less than 10 knots from between west and north-west.
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From the intercom. and audible noises off I gathered, in the seclusion of my snuggery, that the reception committee was doing its best to welcome us as we neared the target. Someone spotted a night-fighter immediately ahead of us but fortunately it was crossing our route and was banked away from us, probably after some othe [sic] prey.
(See page 91 “The German Defences” for further information on the tactics of the night-fighters).
We bombed within half a minute of the time I had in my flight plan and speeded up to the next turning point on our route, just three minutes beyond the target, where we made a sharp turn to starboard on to the next leg of 18 nautical miles, before another starboard turn over the Schwabische Alb range. We had just settled onto our homeward route when trouble arose. The port inner engine packed up, probably due to flak, and had to be feathered.
That meant we had ahead of us, all being well and no further complications, a four hour journey on three engines. We hoped we didn’t encounter any night fighters and were thankful for light winds for the next part of our journey.
Actually, being relieved of the bomb load, “N-Nan” managed very nicely on its three Rolls Royce engines and I was able to continue the job of sending wind velocities back to base, the first on our return journey being only fifteen minutes after “losing” the engine. Altogether, on this op. I see that I managed to send back ten wind velocities covering various stages en route. We did lose a little time but by the time we crossed the south coast of England we were only ten minutes later than our planned time and we didn’t have to queue for landing back at Wickenby. Casualties amounted to 3.4 percent of the 614 attackers.
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Two days later, on 27.7.44 we were airborne locally to air test the new engine and also the replacement for a damaged tail-fin, do some air-sea firing and take a passenger to Sandtoft.
Our 23rd operation was much shorter and less exciting. On 30.7.44 we were part of a very large force of 692 aircraft sent to bomb six German positions in front of a mainly American ground attack in the Villers Bocage-Caumont area. Our target was near Caumont. Cloud caused difficulties and we had to orbit and descend to see the target indicators before bombing. Only four aircraft were lost. We were down at Wickenby after four hours.
During the previous week I had been greatly surprised to see among new arrivals on 12 Squadron an old acquaintance from South African days. Furthermore, he was the other navigator commissioned at the same time and so we had consecutive Air Force numbers. We had both been on No. 12 course at 41 Air School though he was in “A” flight and I was in “B”. Due to the vagaries of the R.A.F. posting system, he had arrived at Wickenby three months after myself. He was F/O J.A. (John) Tebbut. We were naturally both excited by this coincidence – he could easily have gone to one of the many other airfields and squadrons and I hadn’t encountered any of the other navigators of No. 12 course since I left 41 Air School.
I readily agreed to fly with him locally (and unofficially I believe) so that I could help him master the H2S equipment. We flew in “N-Nan” on a local cross-country lasting just over two hours on 31.7.44. When he wasn’t tied up with his crew we had a good natter about things in general and then he asked if I would like to borrow a book he had been presented with at Christmas 1943. I still have the book in front of me as I write, with its
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inscription “from Harold and Sylvia”.
Operation No. 24 couldn’t have been more brief. It was on a flying-bomb site at Les Catelliers, in the Pas-de-Calais. Navigation was normal down to the south coast near Selsey Bill except that I concentrated on H2S to the exclusion of Gee equipment. After that I relaxed as our formation was led to the target by Mosquitos. (I do not thing the Navigation Officer approved – he scribbled “Average Nav.” at the foot of my log). We were home again after three and a half hours.
Next day, 3rd August, we were briefed for a daylight attack on a flying-bomb site at Trossy St. Maximin, not far from Chantilly, about 25 miles north of Paris. The wind was light and the navigation straightforward. This time I relied mainly on Gee and my decimal-hour system taking Gee fixes at 1215, 1221, 1227, 1233, 1239, 1245, 1251, 1257, and 1303 hours i.e. 6 minute intervals and obtaining seven measurements of wind velocity in that time. For the next fix, at 1309, my fix was a bearing and distance from Selsey Bill, using H2S.
On crossing the coast the bombs were fused and selected and we proceeded at our eventual bombing altitude of 11,000 feet. We kept “bang on” our route and crossed the French coast within seconds of our predicted time. Other Lancasters were visible all around. At position “H” on our route the time was 1408 as we turned (dead over the turning point according to Tommy Crook, our bomb-aimer, and headed towards Compiegne, our last turning point before the target. Compiegne was only 14 nautical miles (4.3 minutes) away at this time and I thought I would have a look at this historic place as we turned towards our target. It was the place where the Armistice was signed in a railway-carriage in 1918 and the self-
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same place where Hitler insisted on reversing things in 1940.
I moved forward into the cockpit and was feeling pleased as Compiegne appeared below our banked wing-tip. Then I looked for our accompanying aircraft and eventually spotted them as small specks ahead of us. They had obviously cut the corner, missing out the right-angled bend at Compiegne and were well on the way to the target. There was only one other Lanc. anywhere near us and it was probably half a mile away on the beam.
We were now faced with a straight run onto the target of 21 nautical miles, which would take over 6 minutes, at only 11,000 feet in a cloudless sky and with no-one with whom to share the flak. The odds were very heavily stacked against us, but we carried on according to form. No-one panicked – we were all pretty quiet – but that run-in onto target seemed to take an awful long time.
We were subjected to very intense anti-aircraft fire – the gunners must have been rubbing their hands in anticipation. The conditions were ideal for them – a large aircraft at moderate height on a steady course in clear visibility. We were surrounded by shell-bursts, to the extent that the crew of the other aircraft thought we’d “had it”. We bombed in the middle of our allotted time bracket for bombing, which was obviously not the case with the vast majority of our companions, who were now miles away. Our aircraft was very fortunate to survive. Our recent replacement port inner engine was hit and had to be “feathered”. One of the other engines was damaged and three petrol tanks hit.
Our bomb-aimer, Tommy Crook, and flight engineer,
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Johnny Squires, received minor injuries from the “flak” which they later professed to be worthwhile in exchange for the wound-stripes they were then entitled to wear on their sleeves.
About 12 minutes after leaving the target and nearly halfway back to the coast, we saw a Lancaster on fire about five miles ahead and counted five parachutes opening as the crew baled out. That Lancaster “hit the deck” two minutes later.
It might just as easily have been our aircraft. Once we had crossed the French coast we breathed a sigh of relief and reduced the airspeed to ease the burden on our remaining engines. We were only 8 minutes later than scheduled back at Wickenby.
It so happened that our Squadron Navigation Officer had taken part in this operation and he was obviously in one of the aircraft which had taken the short cut, missing out Compiegne. I quite surprised myself by marching into his office later and telling him what I thought about it. I wondered, later, if it wasn’t our pilot I should have had words with, as he should have realised what was happening and stayed with the “gaggle”, or at least told me what was afoot. On the other hand it was possibly a throw-back from the Gelsenkirchen raid when he missed the target by sticking strictly to orders rather than follow my directions.
The outcome was that our aircraft “N-Nan” needed extensive repairs, having between 50 and 60 flak holes. (Johnny Squires gave me a piece of German flak found in the Lanc. – I still have it). It didn’t take part in operations again until ten days later, piloted by F/O G.S. Whyte to Falaise on 13/14 August.
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In the meantime we were sent on a sea-mining (or “Gardening”) operation in Lancaster PH-W off the French coast to the west of La Rochelle on 10/11 August.
This was our 26th op. and in this regard our crew was running neck and neck with another crew captained by F/Lt G.C. Owens, with a Canadian navigator F/O G.L. Wistow, who were both in my hut on the Officers’ site. I didn’t know George Wistow all that well, but I knew he was very well thought of in Canada. Mail delivered to the Mess was generally placed in a pigeon-holed framework but the “W” pigeon-hole was inadequate for the volume of Wistow’s letters so his were tied in a separate bundle placed just below the W’s. Like many Canadians he was a very outgoing type and usually went around with his pilot in his free time. Although only eight aircraft were taking part in this operation, Wistow’s was one of them, PH-X, JB716.
The object was to lay mines (or “Vegetables”) in channels believed to be used by U-boats operating from La Rochelle. This was where our H2S was to be of use in determining the dropping points of the mines on a bearing and distance from a feature on the Ile de Oleron.
The obvious hazard was the flak we were likely to encounter at our mine-dropping height of only 5,000 feet from both the Ile de Oleron and the Ile de Re. Night fighters wouldn’t have to make much altitude either.
Our route took us via Bridport on the south coast, then south across the Channel and the Brest peninsular and descending gradually to 5,000 feet to reach a turning point at 47 degrees N and 4 degrees W over the Bay of Biscay, from where
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we headed south-east towards our destination.
The islands indicating our mining zone appeared quite clearly on the H2S so I directed our route, map-reading by the H2S for the last few miles. When we reached our release point on a bearing of 335 degrees (true) from Boyard Ville we dropped our mines at 4 second intervals whilst maintaining the same bearing. There was a considerable amount of light flak but we did not receive any damage and were soon climbing back to 10,000 feet on our way home. Our mines had been dropped around 0058 G.M.T., i.e. within the 0050 and 0100 range allotted and we landed back at base at the time our pre-flight plan had calculated for our arrival, all despite a certain amount of apprehension about having to use a different Lancaster from our old faithful “N-Nan”.
Unfortunately, PH-X, with F/Lt Owen’s crew did not return. We heard later that they were badly shot up by flak near the mining area, struggled back to England but left it too late to bale out, crashed and caught fire. The wireless operator and the mid-upper gunner were the only survivors. They were both badly injured but fortunately they managed to crawl out without getting burned. They were in hospital for some time but both survived the war. Stan Canning, the wireless operator still lives in Birmingham. (I managed to contact him in 1997).
There were continual reminders for me in the post-war years of both George Wistow and Walter Suddaby as I journeyed between York and Selby. On the main road I passed through Riccall where Walter was stationed at the H.C.U. (Heavy Conversion Unit) prior to going on to Lisset and 158 Squadron. On the alternative route I had to pass through the village of Wistow.
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I think our crew must have gone on a week’s leave because the next entry in my log book was ferrying Lancaster PH-Z from Wickenby to Ludford for a major inspection on 21st August. Perhaps it was a good job it was only a twenty minute flight! Anyway we travelled back by road.
We discovered, on our return from leave, that John Tebbut and his crew had gone missing during our absence, so I was left with the slim blue book on “Cloud reading for pilots.” which he had lent me two or three weeks before. By this time of course, all his kit and possessions had been collected and I couldn’t see a lot of point in trying to catch up with them for the sake of the small inexpensive book which remains among my souvenirs.
Very strangely, a couple of years ago, I found John Tebbut’s name recorded on the Wickenby Roll of Honour with the date 24th June 1944 although my log book records my flight with him on 31st July 1944. W.R. Chorley in “R.A.F. Bomber Command Losses in 1944” obviously had the same source of information, reporting the loss of John’s crew “without trace” on 24th June during an operation on Saintes. I know they’ve got the records wrong but how can I do anything about it after 54 years? So many people were involved in making the records of operational casualties that inevitably mistakes were made. One such instance I can point to is the appearance on the Wickenby Roll of Honour of the two crew members who survived the crash which killed George Wistow and four of his crew mates. One of them, the wireless operator, is still alive and the other, the mid-upper gunner died in 1992. I presumed they must have died of their injuries until I came across their names in the Register of Members!
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By the time we renewed our acquaintanceship with “N-Nan” she had completed two more missions, her 42nd and 43rd, with two other 12 Squadron crews. We got her back for her 44th and our 27th operation on 25/26 August. This time the target was the Opel motor factories at Russelheim, E.S.E. of Mainz, where amongst other products, components were being made for flying-bombs.
Navigation was becoming pretty routine by this stage in my career, and although it was a nine-hour trip I managed to keep my concentration all the way, filling in reams of calculations with no noticeable variation in quality right through the exercise. This was recognised by the commendation “Very good nav.”. from our Squadron Navigation Officer written on the bottom of the log. Wind-finding for the main force was again an extra duty. Our scheduled time on the target was 0106 to 0110 – we actually bombed at 0107.
My log included two entries at 0054 and 0126.2 recording aircraft being shot down, with rough bearings relative to our heading. Also noted was a precautionary practice stall with just over twenty minutes to go to Wickenby. Our tailplane had received some damage and it was considered best to try out pre-landing manoeuvres whilst we still had plenty of height (about 8,000 feet). Anyway it can’t have been too bad. One thing I found was that after so many hours of continuous concentration, and then going through de-briefing, I didn’t have any problem sleeping!
The verdict on the operation, not immediately available, was that it inflicted very considerable damage and that the forge and gearbox factory were put out of action for several weeks. The attack was considered ”much more profitable, both in
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damage inflicted and in the lighter losses incurred” than the visit by a force a fortnight earlier.
Operation 28, our second attack on Kiel, turned out to be a rather bumpy ride. On the outward journey we stayed at 2,000 feet, heading E.N.E. until we were three-quarters of the way to Denmark before climbing on the same track to 12,000 feet. At 7 degrees East we turned to starboard and headed almost S.E. as if to attack Hamburg. Navigation was simplified by the fact that Heligoland stood out quite sharply on the cathode ray tube of the H2S with, of course, no confusing signals possible. I obtained bearings at ranges of twenty seven and three quarters and nineteen nautical miles as we passed well to the north of the islands, placing us right on track. At the same time we were climbing to 19,000 feet, and I sent back to base the third of the wind velocities I had dutifully measured.
We crossed the German coast dead on track, crossed the Kiel Canal still heading as if for Hamburg, but when about 25 nautical miles short we turned sharply port on a north-westerly heading to Kiel. As we turned we saw red target indicators going down S.E. of us, so it looked as if there was a diversionary attack on Hamburg. Ahead we saw the first illuminating flares going down but it looked as if there would be low stratus cloud over the target. Then we saw red indicators going down ahead of us. Using the H2S I measured the remaining distance to Kiel at 15 nautical miles, or 3.6 minutes time-wise. Then the green target indicators appeared dead ahead and our bomb-aimer, Tommy Crook, took over. The bombs were dropped at 2309.7 so we were very close to our planned time on target of 2310. We turned away at 2310.1 and, looking at the H2S, I reckoned we must have been “bang on” our aiming point.
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Our H2S fix at 2312.3 showed us right on track to our turning point over Kiel Bay, from which we turned westwards to cross the narrow neck of Germany roughly 20 nautical miles south of the Danish border. From our next turning point on the western German coast, we were to descend from 19,000 feet to 7,000 feet as we put the nose down and pushed up our airspeed from 160 to 200 knots. We had only left the coast between 10 and 15 miles astern when we saw a burning aircraft falling about five miles away on the port beam.
At 2340 all was going well and we were only 2 miles south of track, but only seven minutes later we were encountering static in heavy cloud at about 17,000 feet so Fred altered course, first onto 150 degrees, and then 180 degrees and then 210 degrees, as I could see from my repeater compass, to try to go round to the south of the cumulo-nimbus band. I managed to get a fix using Heligoland which now showed us 14 miles south of track, but we were still heading predominantly south looking for a gap in the clouds. We levelled out at 12,500 feet and turned onto 240 degrees. We were now about 24 miles due west of Heligoland and 20 miles south of track.
Fred decided to descend below freezing level on a heading of 270 degrees (west), but we encountered severe turbulence which upset some of our instruments, (apart from the crew!) and without any action by the pilot the aircraft was thrown around onto an easterly heading, all in the space of a couple of minutes! Fred turned south once more and I got another fix on Heligoland which showed that in a period of almost six minutes we had actually made good only 5 miles and that in a southerly direction. We kept on trying to avoid cloud, first on 240 degrees, then 210 degrees and back to 240 degrees.
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Another fix at 0010 hours showed us only 10 miles north of Nordeney, in the East Friesian Islands, known to be the outposts of German flak batteries. We weren’t keen on re-entering German territory and fortunately we found a gap in the clouds and altered course, thankfully, onto 290 degrees as an estimated direction whilst I calculated a more accurate course to intercept our originally intended track back home.
By 0051 we were practically back on track and hastening homeward at 220 knots. I resumed full navigational control of the aircraft and was soon back in the old routine. We arrived over Wickenby only 15 minutes later than our flight-planned time, thanks partly to using a somewhat higher airspeed than planned over the last hour of our journey, despite a certain section of our route seeming rather like an eternity.
The Navigation Officer’s comment written on my log was “Must have been a big, big cloud!!!” I wish he’d been with us to enjoy it! I think we had probably encountered what is know as a “line squall”. The report in Bomber Command News“ (Summer 1988) says “472 aircraft attacked, very heavy bombing in the town centre with widespread fires fanned by strong winds. 17 Lancasters were lost. In W.R. Chorley’s “R.A.F. Bomber Command Losses in 1944” six Lancasters are individually listed with their crews as “lost without trace” and two as “crashed in the North Sea” on that operation. One of the aircraft lost without trace was PH-A from 12 Squadron. I wonder whether they had cloud trouble but fared worse than we did?
Looking back on this experience I marvel not only at the robustness of the Lancaster but also that of the gyrocompass and the air position indicator (A.P.I.) which it served.
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It was back to routine on our 29th operation, which took us by day over Reading and Eastbourne to another flying-bomb site at Fromentel in the Pas-de-Calais. This was such a short-haul trip, lasting barely three hours, that we were able to take our maximum bomb load of 15,300 lb, or very nearly 7 tonnes in today’s parlance. One innovation this time was that the bomb-aimer took over the navigation from the French coast onwards and map-read us the 21 miles to the target, which was in any case, well marked with red target indicators, (T.I’s). We bombed one minute later than planned, but it was all pretty uneventful.
Our final (30th) operation took us on a daylight attack on a V-2 rocket store at St. Riquier, just a few miles from Abbeville. Eight other V-2 stores were being attacked on the same day, involving a total of 601 aircraft. Again things went very much according to plan and we bombed right on time. We did, however, climb to 14,500 feet to avoid flak as we headed back for the coast near Dunkerque. There was some flak damage to the aircraft, just to prove it’s not wise to take things for granted. Six Lancasters were lost. So we ended our operational tour of 30 ops. tidily on the last day of the month (31.8.44). I got an “excellent” proficiency assessment from the O.C. of 12 Squadron, Wing Commander Maurice Stockdale, which is recorded near the end of my log book. That gentleman now lives in Fleet, Hampshire.
One outcome of a successful tour of “ops” was my receiving the D.F.C., gazetted on 12 December 1944. I later learned that our pilot Fred Holbrook (who began his tour as sergeant, progressed to warrant officer half-way through the tour, and was commissioned after 23 “ops”) also received this award.
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[underlined] Chapter 7: Instructing, Ferry Trips & Crewing up for second tour [/underlined]
Just as quickly as our crew assembled in O.T.U. days we were dispersed. We went on leave, (I think it was for a week and I visited the B.O.C.M. laboratory early in September. The only home address I had for a member of the crew was for Johnny Squires. It’s such a long time ago I can’t remember how and when we got our postings, but I can’t remember meeting up again with the others at Wickenby. I was posted to No. 1656 H.C.U. (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Lindholme, near Doncaster, early in September.
I found I was amongst a bunch of experienced navigators condemned to instructing pupil navigators in the use of H2S (airborne radar). Part of the instruction we could do using simulators in a sort of classroom but the nitty-gritty part was actually flying with them on cross-countries. The four-engined aircraft at Lindholme were at first mainly Halifaxes (Mk II) but over the time I was there, (nearly eight months), they were steadily being replaced by Lancasters.
The one common factor in the flying instructing in H2S was that on each occasion (and there were forty-six of them) I flew with a different trainee crew who were leaving the airfield for the first time in a four-engined aircraft without the assurance of a “screened” pilot aboard. In every case they were all complete strangers to me, with the occasional exception of the navigator who I might have met on ground training exercises, and so there was a considerable element of the unknown when one took off with them on a four or five hour cross-country exercise. This might sometimes be extended to include simulated bombing by H2S or the dropping of small practice bombs at the local
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bombing range. When the “screened” pilot flew with a “sprog” crew he at least had his salvation in own hands in the case of emergency – while I knew nothing about piloting an aircraft for real. A “screened” pilot had generally successfully completed a tour of “ops” which was a fair enough way of sorting out the men from the boys.
Maybe I shouldn’t have put it quite like that – after all I was now a “screened” navigator, not that I felt all that screened in this situation. Anyway, I did my best to pass on my experience to a succession of navigators and there was never any suggestion of my being “grounded” and someone else doing the job.
Generally the H2S simulated bombing was done at the turning points on the navigational exercise. When the bombs would have been released if we were bombing for real, we operated (without looking out of the aircraft) a downward pointing camera to give us a line-overlap series of photographs which could be examined later to check the expertise of the use of the H2S as the sole bombing aid.
I still have some line-overlap series as souvenirs of the time we “bombed” Luton, Skomer Island (off S.W. Wales) and the Skerries (just to the N.W. of Anglesey). These were most impressive when the target happened to be largely obscured by cloud that would have made visual bombing difficult and yet there were identifiable points visible through breaks in the clouds on the photographs to prove that the bombing run had been “bang on”. As the H2S was just as effective by night as by day, these photographs helped instil confidence of its effectiveness in the pupil crews. Later we had a more sophisticated camera attached to the H2S set which took pictures of the scene on the cathode ray tube.
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Inevitably there were tricky moments. I can well remember coming in to land at Lindholme after a cross-country with one pupil crew. The pilot misjudged his landing and we touched down on the grass some distance from and running roughly parallel to the runway. Ahead of us loomed some large building. The pilot tried to turn the Lancaster and the undercarriage collapsed, so we skidded to a belly-landing. As calmly and unhurriedly as I could, I suggested that we got out quickly in case the aircraft caught fire. (We might have ruptured a petrol tank and the engines were still hot). Fortunately all was well and no-one was hurt. I have a picture in my log book of this unhappy Lancaster lying on its tummy and the succinct comment on the exercise of 15.1.45 – “Last trip by “X”. In another similar incident “Jock” Niven, another of our flying nav-instructors had to leave an aircraft somewhat hurriedly and, in squeezing his rather plump form through the emergency exit, got out either without his trousers or with them in disarray.
On another cross-country the powers that be tacked on a fighter affiliation exercise (to practice evading fighters) which upset my stomach somewhat and I had to go back down the fuselage to use the Elsan (chemical toilet) – in my log book I have a minute sketch of myself as a match-stalk man, being sick into a bucket! I survived other fighter affiliation exercises without undergoing that particular indignity.
It was just before the half-way stage of my sojourn at 1656 H.C.U. I learned that I had been awarded the D.F.C. for my work on 12 Squadron, and when I went on Christmas leave Mother presented me with a cutting from the “Hull Daily Mail” – I’ve no idea what happened to that.
Judging from the gap between entries in my log book I
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presume I had another leave after completing my duties as an instructor because the next entry shows me flying as navigator in a crew headed by F/Lt Bill Addison, who had acted as flight commander towards the end of his duties at Lindholme.
We were part of a newly assembled crew, each member having completed a tour of thirty operations, preparing for a possible second tour of operations. We had been laid off for a minimum six months (in my case eight months), to rest us from our first tours and at the same time make use of us in the training of further batches of aircrew.
In typical inflexible service fashion we found, much to our chagrin, that we were treated as beginners without an “op” behind us. Another possible explanation is that with the ending of the war in Europe, the R.A.F. had to keep us temporarily occupied and this was the easiest way to do it. For a couple of months (May to July ’45) we went through the same routine that our first crew had to undergo at No. 1653 H.C.U., omitting the “circuits and bumps” but making up for this by doing twice as much of the other H.C.U. catalogue. Halfway through this our crew was transferred to No. 576 Squadron, based at Fiskerton near Lincoln. To use a prevalent expression we were all “cheesed” or “browned off” with our lack of recognition. The war in Europe had ended but we were expecting to be sent to tackle the Japanese.
On 17.7.45 we had a cross-country with a difference, code-named “Cooks Tour”, visiting Rotterdam, Arnhem, Essen, Cologne, Aachen and Antwerp. The idea was partly to impress the natives and partly to let us see the havoc wrought by Bomber Command during the recent campaign. I believe we carried a few ground-staff personnel as observers.
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Then the R.A.F. at last found something to keep a large number of bomber crews occupied. We were used as troop carriers, flying to and from Italy, taking service personnel from and on leave, respectively. This was, I suppose, a kind of poetic justice. We had wrecked the railway system in France so that it was impossible to transport troops by land at anything like a reasonable speed, if at all, so we got the job.
On our first trip, early in August, we went to Bari, on the Adriatic coast and brought back on leave twenty members of the 8th Army. It can’t have been at all comfortable for them, sitting on the metal floor of a Lancaster, but I expect the novelty of the situation helped to distract them, and at least they were getting home quickly. Another novelty was that their kit bags were slung up in the bomb bays of the aircraft in place of bombs, but we didn’t drop any. On arrival in England we had to land at an airfield with Customs facilities, where the troops had to display their acquisitions (or loot).
The second trip was to Naples on 22.8.45. We had glorious views of Vesuvius on the approach to Pomigliano airfield. The next day was free and we managed to visit Pompeii. In Naples we were beset by bare-footed urchins competing with one another to swop lire for pound notes. Some R.A.F. types took packages of coffee to sell at inflated prices to the deprived Italians. On the following day we were due to carry another twenty passengers back to England.
Bill and I had to attend an early morning briefing, ready for a very early start, but take-off was postponed for a few hours and we had to attend a second briefing. Bill was rather tired and asked me to modify our official route by cutting off one of the corners. Instead of taking a north-westerly route running roughly
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parallel to the west coast of Italy and then heading due west towards the French Riviera I was to go over the top of Corsica to the French Riviera. As the highest ground on Corsica rose to about 9,000 feet it would be essential to be sure of a good safety margin for our passengers but as we didn’t have oxygen for them we would have to compromise – I reckoned that if we crossed Corsica at 11,000 feet that should be satisfactory. In fact I observed the approach to the east coast of the island on the H2S. We climbed to 11,000 feet and stayed there until we left the west coast behind us and then descended to our authorised height for the rest of the journey. The twenty minutes or so at 11,000 feet had negligible effect on our passengers. (The rule was that you needed to use oxygen if you flew over 10,000 feet for more than one hour).
The results of this change of route, whilst not affecting our passengers, remained to be seen. Whilst the pilot and myself were attending our second briefing some of the other members of the crew had wandered off to our aircraft where they were accosted by an R.A.F. groundstaff airman who was on leave in Italy but would rather spend his leave in England. Our crew members didn’t see why not and when the rest of us reached the Lancaster they seemed to have got it all arranged. Bill didn’t like it, but surprisingly, agreed on condition that if this “hitch-hiking” was discovered we knew nothing about it.
Our stowaway apparently got away from the Customs airfield at Glatton and went on his way. The trouble began when my chart was routinely scanned by the Navigation Officer and our short cut was revealed. Bill and I were interviewed separately about this breach of discipline but as I was subject to the captain’s instructions it largely devolved on Bill. Whilst the matter was still under consideration our stowaway put his
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spanner in the works. He had somehow to get back to Italy before his leave expired.
He knew we were from 576 Squadron from the aircraft’s lettering and notwithstanding the fact that he had already put us in jeopardy with his outward flight from Italy, he tried to get to our airfield at Fiskerton, near Lincoln, in the hope of a return trip. Unfortunately, he got mis-directed to our base airfield, where, being dressed in khaki drill whilst everyone else was in blue, the service police soon spotted him and took him for questioning. He told them almost the whole story – the only thing he didn’t give away was with which crew he had travelled. The pilot and I were confronted with this chap and we both denied having seen him – I truthfully didn’t recognise him as I hadn’t paid particular attention to him at the critical time.
We could have been right up to our ears in it but for our station intelligence officer withholding a vital piece of evidence. He knew from the time of the ‘bus that our stowaway had caught from Glatton that ours was the only aircraft from our squadron which could possibly have landed him in time, thanks to our cutting the corner on our route and being one of the first aircraft back to England. The intelligence officer told us later how he had worked things out. I suppose one or both of us might possibly have been court-martialled for this serious breach of discipline but nothing happened. Except, one day Bill Addison had to report to Group Headquarters where he saw one senior officer and was reprimanded for cutting the corner, then went (on the same visit) to see another officer to be told that he had been awarded the A.F.C. for his work as an instructor, to add to the D.F.C. he already wore. As it happened, I didn’t fly again with Bill Addison as his demobilisation cropped up very soon afterwards.
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The Japanese surrendered that August, so now there was a general feeling of anti-climax. Personally, I knew I couldn’t throw away four years of studying and I couldn’t get out of the Air Force quickly enough now that the “raison d’etre” had been removed. I tried to get back into the habit of studying science at Lincoln Technical College but found the available course too elementary and had to give up that approach. Later on I had a piece of good news from our R.A.F. education officer. He had made enquiries and discovered that London University had modified its regulations, my School Certificate of 1937 now being acceptable and giving me exemption from the London Matriculation exam. This meant that when I did get back to studying I could aim for the London B.Sc. Special qualification, which had the advantage of an intermediate examination (with certificate) en route.
Our crew was broken up and despatched to various points of the compass. I received a letter from our wireless operator, “Artie” Shaw a year later, just after I was demobilised, from R.A.F. Seletar, Singapore but never heard from any of the others. However, by strange coincidence I did run across Bill Addison again. I encountered him at Lloyd’s Bank in York somewhere about 1960, and it turned out that he was living in Osbaldwick, barely half a mile from our house on Hull Road, York
I was posted to 50 Squadron at Sturgate, a recently constructed airfield near Gainsborough and joined the crew of F/O Titchener. That was in September 1945. We were soon on the Italian ferry trips again, flying to Naples on three more occasions to bring home service personnel. Twice we brought twenty army types and once we afforded the ladies a bit more room to spread themselves by seating only fourteen of them
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(A.T.S. and Q.A.I.M.N.S.) in the space normally occupied by twenty army blokes, but it was the same metal floor.
After that it was back to routine with plenty of cross-countries thrown in. I see that on one night exercise, operation “Bullseye”, we went via Hamburg, among other places, to a target on the island of Spiekeroog in the German chain of East Frisian Islands. This was very near the scene of our memorable exploits whilst battling with the elements during our return from Kiel about sixteen months previously. This time however, things were entirely different – no cumulo-nimbus and no danger of flak. On the way back to Sturgate there was a problem. Visibility had seriously deteriorated and for the first time in my flying experience our aircraft was diverted to Carnaby, near Bridlington, where there was a special emergency airfield, much used during the war. This had exceptionally long runways to accommodate crippled aircraft returning from ops and also an emergency flare path called F.I.D.O. (Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation) which used containers of burning gasoline down the sides of the runway to cause local dispersal of the fog.
We landed safely and found that we would have to stay there till next day. We didn’t think much of the food or the very cold accommodation (it was early January 1946). Maybe there was some problem with our aircraft because another Lancaster from 50 Squadron collected us the following afternoon and flew us back to base.
Nissen huts were never warm in the winter. I can well remember a period during the winter at Sturgate when icicles formed on the inside of the door and my bed was one of the two either side of the entrance.
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The solid fuel stove was halfway back down the hut and I finished my insulation by piling the contents of my kit-bag on the bed before trying to sleep. Some of the stuff consisted of flying gear which I never needed on operations because the Lancaster was warm enough without it.
By late January, 50 Squadron was transferred to the much more hospitable Waddington airfield, just south of Lincoln. Waddington was constructed originally during the first world war and opened as an R.F.C. flying training station in 1916. Now it was a thoroughly modern establishment with permanent accommodation, workshops and offices. I was soon pottering around with various pilots on trivia like bombing at the local range, air-sea firing (for the gunners), four short cross-countries with A.T.C. cadets, air tests (one with an A. V. Roe test pilot who managed to take off in less than half the length of the runway).
There was operation “Frontline”, a propaganda tour of the British Zone in Germany. Just for a change we did a couple of meteorological trips (code name “Operation Seaweed”, both lengthy exercises in excess of eight hours, which took us up to latitude 62 degrees North, passing Fair Isle and the Shetlands with a turning point roughly halfway between the Faroe Islands and the most westerly coast of Norway.
We carried a meteorological observer to take the required data readings, to which I was able to contribute the locations in latitude and longitude and measurements of wind velocity at our height. It was all rather boring but after seeing such wide expanses of ocean for such a long time it was nice to return to land.
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Then there was the novelty of my one and only trip in a Lincoln bomber, the successor to the Lancaster, in which we would probably have done our second tour of operations (against the Japanese). My last flight in the R.A.F. was an abortive air sea mission on which we had to search an area of the North Sea off the coast of Scotland. We did sight an empty dinghy, which was very good going considering how tiny they are from any appreciable height, but no sign of any people or aircraft debris. The lost aircraft was later found in the hills of Northumberland.
To fill in a few more weeks before I was demobbed, in August 1946 I was sent, under protest, on an instructor’s course at Finningley. It was interesting in that I got to appreciate more fully the equipment I had been using on a regular basis, but futile from the teaching point of view since I would be leaving the Air Force almost immediately. I suppose our C.O. had been required to send so many persons and it was just a matter of making up the numbers, the Air Force being well into a state of disintegration.
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[photograph of the crew in front of their aircraft]
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[underlined] Chapter 8: Lancaster ME 758 PH-N “Nan” [/underlined]
Whilst I was home on leave, sometime in June 1945, it so happened that my brother Norman was also at home. We took our bicycles and crossed the Humber by paddle steamer, then cycled south to Wickenby. By great good fortune we found my old aircraft, ME 758 PH-N “Nan” still very much in existence. She had eventually completed more than a hundred operations, the latest ones being to drop food to the starving Dutch just before the Germans capitulated. There was also one of our old ground crew in attendance and he told us that “Nan’s” next exercise would be to take part in a fighter affiliation exercise, i.e. manoeuvering [sic] violently with a fighter aircraft. This didn’t seem at all considerate after what that aircraft had gone through! Anyway Norman took a photograph of “Nan”, myself and my ground crew corporal to add to tone he had already taken of me and my bike! I still have both pictures.
It was only a few years ago that I learned more about “Nan”. That was when I obtained a copy of “Claims to Fame. The Lancaster.” by Norman Franks. This book celebrates the Lancaster “centenarians” – 34 machines that achieved the remarkable goal of flying 100 or more operations. A Lancaster crew’s first tour of duty stood at 30 operations, but both men and aircraft often failed to reach even half of that total. Skill, training and team work would all increase the chances of survival, but luck played a large part in deciding which Lancaster would be found by a night fighter or hit by flak and which would escape to attack again. Only 34 Lancasters in Bomber Command survived 100 operations, about 1 percent of the number which were lost on operations. “Nan” was the only centenarian from Wickenby which was the base for two squadrons, 12 and 626. Franks, through some meticulous
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research has been able to compile a fairly comprehensive narrative for each Lancaster, including crew changes, missions flown and events and incidents during the service career of the aircraft.
Our crew flew in PH-N for the first time when we did a two and a half hours cross-country exercise on 26.5.44 after we had completed three ops. on different Lancasters. We did our fourth op. in her (it was her tenth) when we went to the Rote Erde railway marshalling yards at Aachen. The defences were strong and losses 7 percent (12 out of 170). A day later, 29.5.44, we did another cross-country in her and it turned out to be a rather “hairy” experience.
My log entry merely states “Window lost and aileron damaged. A.S.I. (air speed indicator) read 360 m.p.h. + in dive”.
I cannot remember the cause, but no great harm was done. The damage was repaired and we began a series of eleven ops. in her over the next three weeks up to 22.6.44 covering a variety of targets, including the first daylight raids by Lancasters since 1943, when we attacked the docks at Le Havre and Boulogne, on two successive evenings and virtually ended the E-boat threat to our cross-channel invasion shipping.
This took our total of ops. to 15 and “Nan’s” to 22. Whilst we enjoyed a week’s leave, “Nan” did five more operations with three other crews. We then did four of “Nan’s” next five ops., three of them being to the important French marshalling yards at Orleans, Dijon and Tours, bringing us to 19 and “Nan” to 32.
“Nan” then managed two more trips without us before
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we did three night ops. in five days, returning from Stuttgart on 24/25.7.44 on three engines. Two days later we were air-testing “Nan” with a new engine and tail fin. This damage was not mentioned in Norman Franks’ account nor indeed was there any mention of the operation on Stuttgart, which was our 22nd and “Nan’s” 37th op.
After a couple of short daylight ops. to French targets we were scheduled to attack the V-weapon launching site at Trossy St. Maximin. This, as I have already described in some detail, was the worst experience of our tour and which we were very lucky to survive. Once again this was not mentioned in Norman Franks’ account. In fact he summarises “Nan’s” record as follows:-
“Nan” was almost totally free of mechanical problems, although towards the end of its career the aircraft’s starboard engine caught fire on 2nd February 1945, causing the crew to abort a trip to Wiesbaden. This particular Lanc. was also lucky to escape serious damage from the German defences: only once was damaged recorded when its hydraulics were hit by light flak at 0612 hours during the attack to support Operation “Goodwood” – the Allied breakout from Caen on 18th July 1944.”
This was one of a couple of ops. done by other crews, presumably whilst our crew was on leave after our 19th op. on Tours. That damage cannot have been too bad because the Caen trip was followed, the same evening, by an op. on Scholven!
In the aftermath of the Trossy operation we had to do our next op. in PH-W whilst “Nan” was being repaired. “Nan” didn’t get back on ops. until ten days after Trossy – a long lay-off in
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those days!
We had “Nan” back for the op. on Russelsheim on 25/26th August. Our tailplane was damaged to the extent that we practised landing manoeuvres whilst we still had plenty of height before actually landing at base on our return. With the exception of our op. in V-“Victor” on 28.8.44, when “Nan” was not flying with any crew, possible due to overhaul, we completed our tour in “Nan”, receiving light flak damage on our last operation.
So once we’d got “Nan”, after our three “starter” ops., we did 25 of our remaining 27 trips in her, which must be something of a record in itself.
Altogether she completed 106 operations, six “Manna” sorties (taking food to the starving Dutch people) and two “Exodus” trips (the flying home of released prisoners of war).
Looking back it seems such a shame that after seeing out the war she was “struck off charge” on 19.10.45 and “reduced to produce” i.e. scrapped.
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[black and white photograph of airman in uniform on a bicycle leaning against a wall]
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[underlined] Chapter 9: GEE. A. P. I. and H2S [/underlined]
My work as a navigator was enhanced out of all recognition by three devices put at my disposal over a six-month period. “Gee” was a godsend after the dismal future I had anticipated relying to any extent on str-navigation. It was a system based on the transmission of synchronised pulses from a “master” (A) and two “slave” (B and C) ground stations. The two “slaves” were situated about 200 miles apart, with the “master” in the middle, and the cathode ray display on the “Gee” set in the aircraft showed the respective differences between the times at which the AB and AC signals were received. When these measurements were plotted on a special chart covered with two distinct sets of parabolic lines it was a simple matter to fix the aircraft’s position with great accuracy. This accuracy gradually declined as the distance from the transmitting stations increased and the crossings of the two sets of curved lines became more acute. Furthermore it was susceptible to interference from enemy jamming stations to the extent that it could not be relied upon beyond enemy shores.
It still gave us the all-important chance of determining accurate measurements of wind velocity and so getting off to a good start on every operation. It also helped to verify one’s position on the way home after leaving the enemy coast and simplified getting back to the right airfield. The Air Force had understandably kept the information about “Gee” from us until it was absolutely necessary to introduce this master stroke. It certainly “bucked up” we navigators no end.
The second of the marvellous pieces of equipment was the air position indicator (A.P.I.). This showed the changes in latitude and longitude of the moving aircraft which would occur
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if there were no wind. It was a mechanical device which combined the inputs of the gyro compass and the air speed indicator, keeping a continuous record of the actual courses and speeds flown, including all deviations from the intended, and including “spur of the moment” tactical manoeuvres. This made life a lot easier by removing much of the drudgery in the manual plotting of lines on a chart by means of ruler, protractor, dividers and calculator.
The third item was airborne radar, known as H2S. This had a rotating transmitter, known as a scanner, housed in a “blister” beneath the aircraft and a receiver at the navigator’s side, the whole system being self-contained. It produced, on a cathode-ray tube, a rough picture of the ground over which the aircraft was flying, irrespective of cloud or darkness.
Water areas, which reflected none of the transmitting signals from the rotating scanner showed darkly on the screen. Land areas (or ground returns) appeared green, but a more reflective area such as a built-up area showed up as a more luminous patch often, but not always approximating in outline to the shape of a town. It was up the navigator to use his other information gleaned en route to decide which town he was observing on the screen. The chief use was navigational for there was a range-finder on the screen and a bearing indicator so one could obtain a bearing and distance from an identified town or feature. It was also possible to carry out bombing attacks without sight of the ground and the equipment could not be jammed by the enemy.
Unfortunately, German night-fighters had, for some time before our tour of operations, the capability of homing onto H2S transmissions - more about this later under “The German Defences”.
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[underlined] Chapter 10: The German Defences. [/underlined]
To counter R.A.F. and U.S.A.A.F. attacks the Germans had to deprive the German forces of 75% of their heavy anti-tank weapons. These 88mm guns had to be used for ant-aircraft purposes, scattered all over Germany and occupied territories because the possible targets were so numerous. 900,000 soldiers manned those guns and, in addition, hundreds of thousands of expert tradesmen could not be used by the German Army because their skills were needed to repair bomb damage. Meanwhile, the increasing requirement for day and night-fighters for defence against the bomber offensive, deprived the German Army on the Russian front of much of its accustomed close support as Messerschmidt 110s and Junkers 88s were drawn westwards.
Our most deadly opposition came from the German night-fighters. The German pilots had long known that the blind spot of the British bombers was below the fuselage but had not been able to exploit this fully because the fighter had generally to be aimed at the bomber to make use of its fixed forward-firing weapons and this could be difficult at night. However, in the autumn of 1943, an ingenious fitter at a Luftwaffe airfield devised the prototype of the deadly “schrage musik” - “jazz music” - a pair of fixed 20mm cannons pointing upwards at 60 degrees. Having located a bomber with the aid of radar or using the bomber’s radar (H2S) transmissions, the fighter pilot could then fly unseen and fairly safely manoeuvre below their target and fire incendiary cannon shells into the petrol tanks between the two motors in the wing, being particularly careful to avoid the bomb bay in the belly of the aircraft. It was then only a matter of seconds before the bomber exploded. The victims had no chance.
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Using this technique, an experienced night-fighter pilot could account for several four-engined bombers in a single excursion, there being so many targets available.
I sometimes wonder if and at what stage our superiors realised the situation and whether they had to decide between warning the crews of the dangers of H2S transmissions and maintaining the advantage of the navigational aid. I am sure a lot of H2S sets would have been little used over Germany if the crews had been presented with the true scenario. To be fair, our leaders would not at the time have been in a position to accurately attribute the proportion of bomber losses due to night fighters as opposed to anti-aircraft fire, but they must have had a rough idea.
What other crews saw was a sudden mid-air explosion and burst of flame. Someone put out the story that these were “scarecrows” fired into the air by the Germans with the intention of making the crews believe they were bombers being shot down and thereby affecting the bomber crews’ morale!
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[underlined and centred] Chapter 11: Reflections on survival [/underlined and centred]
Many factors contributed to my survival, beginning with my decision that I wanted to do the navigation on a bomber aircraft. At the time I volunteered for aircrew this was one of the two jobs of the observer, who was also responsible for dropping the bombs. The latter task was subsequently delegated to a specialist bomb aimer. When I enlisted in November 1941 (after passing the preliminaries three months earlier), there was a bottle-neck in the training scheme for navigators. I was deferred for five months, otherwise I would have been starting my tour in the winter of 1943-44, probably about January. That would have been a rotten time with bad weather and numerous long-distance trips including a high proportion to Berlin.
Then there was the length of the training period which took two years from the end of my deferred service to reaching the operational squadron, partially due to the necessity of fitting in to laid-down training schedules at the succeeding stages, notably:-
(a) the gap between completing the I.T.W. course and catching the boat to South Africa,
(b) five weeks at sea on a circuitous submarine-evading route to South Africa via South America,
(c) several weeks between arriving at 48 Air School, South Africa and starting the course there,
(d) the return to England,
(e) several more weeks delay at O.T.U. whilst the R.A.F. decided that our original pilot wouldn’t make the grade.
All these delays took me nearer to D-Day and the invasion of Europe by the Allied Armies. The increasing
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diversity of the targets needing to be attacked in order to assist the coming assault meant that there was a greater proportion of shorter range tactical targets and only seven over Germany itself. (Air Marshal Harris would have preferred to keep hammering away at German targets but had to give priority to the invasion requirements.) In the final stages before the landings there were attacks on coastal batteries, and radar stations, but the longer term “softening up” was by attacking a large number of railway centres to seriously impede German troop movements and supplies to the invasion front.
We were fortunate in not being “downed” by anti-aircraft fire on a few occasions, particularly near Stuttgart, when we returned on three engines and on the occasion near Compiegne when we got 50-60 holes in the aircraft and two of the crew received minor injuries. We were lucky in our encounter with the severe storm on the way back from our second trip to Kiel. And we were never attacked by a night-fighter, despite getting a close-up view of one on the Stuttgart operation.
On the positive side, we had a well-disciplined crew who didn’t waste time on unnecessary nattering on the intercom. What’s more, there was never any visible or audible sign of fear or distress.
We kept very close to our scheduled routes and times on almost all occasions, i.e. we kept in the middle of the bunch so it wasn’t quite so easy to be singled out.
I am sure that the toughest time for bomber crews was in the six months prior to us joining 12 Squadron. Nevertheless, I was surprised to discover in an “Analysis of Total Losses of Lancasters by Months” in the Wickenby Register Newsletter of
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May 1994 that 12 Squadron lost 31 Lancasters in the six months Nov. ’43 to April ’44 and 27 in the four months that our crew was operating. I suppose that might be explained by the ops. not being so frequent during the winter months.
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[underlined and centred] Chapter 12: Postscript. [/underlined and centred]
After all these years I cannot remember just when or where I was demobbed and received my “civvy” suit. I know that officially my last day of service was 16.10.46 but I believe I was out a few weeks earlier.
I know that I picked up where I left off. I went back to work for B.O.C.M. at the laboratory in Stoneferry and I re-enlisted for Hull Technical College evening classes. As an ex-member of the forces and a background of studying chemistry for almost four years I knew I was eligible to apply for an educational grant of something over £3 a week to proceed on a full time course to a professional qualification. (Out of this, textbooks etc. had to be purchased). This would have meant giving up the day job which paid over £4 a week.
I knew that after four and a half years complete absence from my studies I would have to revise from the very beginning, but now that my School Certificate was accepted as giving me exemption from the London Matriculation exam. I decided that I would defer my application for a grant and aim to take the London Inter B.Sc. examination the next June. The Inter B.Sc. course took two years of evening class work so it meant I would have to cover one-half via the 1946-47 evening class course and the other half by swotting up from textbooks and my old notebooks. If I succeeded in passing the exam, comprising Maths., Physics and Chemistry, I would at least have that certificate to my name and I couldn’t have been further on if I’d taken advantage of the grant. Anyway I took the gamble although I found the readjustment rather tough. It was very amusing when attending an early lecture in Physics to hear the same old lecturer, Mr. Robson, repeat the same hoary joke that
93
[page break]
Walter Suddaby and I had heard in 1938 concerning his friend’s dog who was christened “Hysteresis” because it was always lagging behind.
Back at home there was a problem. My parents had been separated for some years, partially due to the war. The Luftwaffe destroyed Spillers’ flour mill, where my father worked, during a night raid in July 1941. Shortly afterwards, his firm offered him alternative employment at their Wallasey mill, which he accepted. At the tip of the Wirral peninsula he was now well over a hundred miles from Hull, so he wasn’t able to come home every weekend. My brother Norman, although a year younger than I, joined the R.A.F. shortly before I left home, due to my five months deferred service.
So by the time I had to report to the R.A.F. in London my mother, in a matter of a few months, was reduced from a family of five to my young sister Hazel and herself. This was very hard for her in the middle of the war, particularly as the air raid alerts still sounded regularly in Hull.
It was assumed that we should resume as a family when the war was over, although no-one knew when that would be or whether it would be possible. My father settled in Wallasey and mad regular payments to mother. At one time he tried to persuade her to join him in Wallasey but she declined for two reasons. She had worked hard all her life and used a very small legacy from a relative in New Zealand to enable the family to move into a modest home of our own and she was intent on having it ready for our return.
By the time I was “demobbed” things had become more complicated. My father had formed a relationship with his
94
[page break]
landlady and had no intention of returning to Hull. Mother’s situation was uncertain unless there was a legal separation, which would obviously take some time to come to court.
After passing the Inter B.Sc. exam, in June ’47, I had another decision to make. I could apply for the ex-serviceman’s grant or continue at evening classes for another year and then take the Subsid. Maths qualification, clearing the way to the B.Sc.(Special) in Chemistry. This would mean dropping all contact with chemistry for a year. Being slightly mad, but having confidence in my maths, I carried on at the Tech. evening classes for another session! and continued to work full-time at B.O.C.M. I duly passed the maths exam in June ’48.
In the meantime, the legal formalities of my parents’ separation had been formalised on a proper financial basis.
When I got my exam results I composed a letter applying for an educational grant as an ex-member of the forces, pointing out that I had already saved the country money by completing part of the course via evening classes. How could anyone resist that? I got a favourable response and I arranged to leave B.O.C.M. and complete my education full-time but still at the Hull Technical College, commencing in the autumn.
My two post-war years at B.O.C.M. had been spent on the routine testing of ingredients for animal feedstuffs, a boring occupation which I had now endured for six years altogether, plus six years of evening classes. I knew it had to be full-time or nothing.
Fortunately for me those last two years at B.O.C.M. were by no means wasted because it was there that I met a charming
95
[page break]
young lady assistant. Yvonne and I found that we had very similar outlooks and much in common and, although I was transferred to the Foster Street laboratory for the latter part of my stay with B.O.C.M., we maintained contact. In subsequent years I must have cycled a few hundreds of miles between North Hull and East Hull!!
It was rather odd attending the degree course. There were a couple of other ex-forces students, but the majority of our fellow pupils were about eight years younger. An advantage over attending a university was that the staff and the geography were all familiar and I had great faith in the staff, especially Messrs. L. Balmforth and G. R. Dennis.
I proposed to Yvonne on New Year’s Eve ’48 – ’49 with the proviso that I had to concentrate on first passing my final exams in 1950. Fortunately, she accepted!
I found those final two years hard going but I took my A.R.I.C. exams in April and the B.Sc. Special in Chemistry (London External) exams in June 1950 and waited in some trepidation for the results. I didn’t wish to go through all that again. I was now 28 and I’d had enough of college for my lifetime! However, all was well and I had both qualifications.
Now the way was clear to seek employment and plan for the wedding, which took place on September 30th, 1950. It rained all day! Subsequent events would take another book!
96
[page break]
[underlined and centred] Bibliography [/underlined and centred]
FRANKS, Norman
“Claims to Fame. The Lancaster” (Arms and Armour, 1994)
RICHARDS, Denis
“The Hardest Victory. R.A.F. Bomber Command in the Second World War.” (Hodder and Stoughton Ltd. 1994)
HASTINGS, Max
“Bomber Command” (Michael Joseph Ltd. 1979)
CHORLEY, W.R.
“Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War. Vol. 5 Aircraft and Crew Losses. 1944” (Midland Counties Publications. 1997)
SEARBY, John (Air Commodore)
“The Bomber Battle for Berlin” (Guild Publishing, 1991)
HARRIS, Sir Arthur
“Bomber Offensive” (Greenhill Books, 1998)
97
[page break]
98
[underlined and centred] Glossary of R.A.F. Terms. (Official and Unofficial).
A.P.I.
Air Position Indicator
A.S.I.
Air Speed Indicator
“Bang on”
Spot on, “Wizard”, 100%
“Cheesed off”
Browned off, fed up.
“Circuits and Bumps”
Practice take-off and landing
Cumulo-nimbus
Thunder clouds
D.R.
Dead reckoning with a calculated wind
Elsan
Aircraft toilet
Feathered
Engine switched off with propellor blades turned to reduce air resistance
Flak
Anti-aircraft fire
F.I.D.O.
Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation
“Gardening”
Laying sea mines
GEE
Radio navigation aid, grid box
H2S
Radar navigation and bombing aid
99
[page break]
I.T.W.
Initial Training Wing
O.T.U.
Operational Training Unit
P.F.F.
Path Finder Force
Pitot/tube
An open-ended tube mounted externally on the aircraft facing directly into the air flow to provide a convenient and accurate measurement of the aircraft’s speed.
“Screened”
aircrew rested from ops at end of tour and transferred to instructing
“Solo”
Unsupervised flight
Sprog
Inexperienced aircrew
V1 and V2
Robot flying bombs used by the Germans commonly called “doodlebugs”
“Vegetables”
Mines laid by the R.A.F.
“Window”
Aluminised strips used as an anti-radar device.
100
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Time out for war
Description
An account of the resource
History of wartime experiences of Ronald Witty. Starts with schooling and early employment just before the war in Hull. Mentions German bombing of Hull and volunteering for the RAF. Describes training in London and Torquay before departing on a troop ship for South Africa. Describes navigator training and activities at Woodbrook and Queenstown. Continues with trip back to England and continuation of training at RAF Halfpenny Green, Desborough (Northamptonshire), RAF Chedburgh, and RAF Hemswell. Goes on to describe his operational tour on 12 Squadron at RAF Wickenby including accounts of some operations including some daylight operations during the Normandy campaign and against flying bomb sites as well as mine laying. Tour culminates with award of Distinguished Flying Cross. Concludes with account of subsequent tours as an instructor at RAF Lindholme and other stations and including account of flying on Cook's tour of German cities. Adds chapters about his Lancaster ME758 PH-N "Nan" as well as another on GEE, A.P.I and H2S. Contains many b/w photographs of RAF personnel and aircraft.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
A R Witty
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
100 page printed book
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BWittyARWittyARv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--Hull
England--London
England--Devon
England--Torquay
England--Lancashire
England--Liverpool
South Africa
South Africa--Durban
South Africa--East London
South Africa--Cape Town
England--Staffordshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Suffolk
England--Lincolnshire
France
France--Rennes
Germany
Germany--Aachen
France--Paris
France--Normandy
France--Evreux
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
France--Le Havre
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
France--Calais
France--Dijon
France--Tours
Belgium
Belgium--Kortrijk
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Stuttgart
France--Orléans
France--Pas-de-Calais
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Domléger-Longvillers
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-03-29
1943-07-10
1943-07-27
1943-09-08
1943-10-12
1944-02-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-28
1944-06-14
1944-06-14
1944-06-12
1942-06-13
1944-06-22
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-30
1944-08-03
1944-08-31
1944-12-12
1945-07-07
1945-07-17
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Bloomfield
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
1 Group
12 Squadron
1653 HCU
1656 HCU
3 Group
50 Squadron
576 Squadron
84 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing of the Boulogne E-boats (15/16 June 1944)
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
Cook’s tour
coping mechanism
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
faith
Gee
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Master Bomber
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
navigator
Nissen hut
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Desborough
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Methwold
RAF Sturgate
RAF Torquay
RAF Waddington
RAF Wickenby
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
training
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1416/32291/CLeavissED-151116-020004.1.jpg
6843ce451e48ff9a9167fc00fd14f613
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Leaviss, Ted
Edward Derek Leaviss
E D Leaviss
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Leaviss, ED
Description
An account of the resource
42 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Edward 'Ted' Derek Leaviss (1818433 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents memorabilia and photographs.
He flew three Operation Manna operations as an air gunner with 460 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Irene Leaviss and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Operation Manna route
Description
An account of the resource
Chart shows route for one flight. It has an inscription which reads 'No 576 Squadron, R.A.F. Fiskerton to Delft, 30 Apr 45, Lancaster G for George, Crew: Pilot F/O. Everitt, Nav Sgt B A Gilbert, BA Sgt T Royall, Eng F/S Kitchen, W/Op P/O. T Pappauiannu, Mid/Upper T Johnston, Rear/gunner A Houghton'.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
B A Gilbert
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-04-30
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One printed map with handwritten annotations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Map
Map. Navigation chart and navigation log
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CLeavissED-151116-020004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Netherlands
England--Lincolnshire
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-04-30
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
576 Squadron
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Fiskerton
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1817/32279/LWittyAR1520694v1.2.pdf
dfeb88f111e1be8091783d8a2c508035
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Witty, A R
Witty, Ron
Witty, Ronald
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Witty, AR
Description
An account of the resource
118 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Ronald Witty DFM (1520694 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, navigation charts and logs of all his operations, photographs and correspondence home from training in South Africa. He flew thirty operations as a navigator with 12 Squadron before going as an instructor on 1656 HCU and then 576 and 50 Squadrons after the war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by David Witty and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A K Witty’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for A K Witty, navigator, covering the period from 1 April 1943 to 24 July 1946. Detailing his flying training, operations flown, Instructor duties and post war flying duties with 576 and 50 squadrons. He was stationed at RSAAF East London, RAF Halfpenny Green, RAF Desborough, RAF Chedburgh, RAF Hemswell, RAF Wickenby, RAF Lindholme, RAF Fiskerton, RAF Sturgate and RAF Waddington. Aircraft flown in were Anson, Wellington, Stirling, Lancaster, Halifax, and Lincoln. He flew a total of 30 operations with 12 squadron, 9 daylight and 21 night. His pilot on operations was Sergeant Holbrook. Targets were Bruz, Hasselt, Aachen, Berneval Le Grand, Sangatte, St Martin de Varreville, Acheres, Flers, Evreux, Gelsenkirchen, Le Havre, Boulogne, Aulnoye, Wissant, Domleger, Orleans, Dijon, Tours, Courtrai, Kiel, Stuttgart, Caumont, Le Catelliers, Trossy St Maxim, La Rochelle, Russelsheim, Fromental and St Reguier
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LWittyAR1520694v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Germany
Great Britain
South Africa
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Belgium--Hasselt
Belgium--Kortrijk
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
France--Argentan
France--Berneval-le-Grand
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
France--Bruz
France--Calais
France--Cherbourg Region
France--Dieppe (Arrondissement)
France--Dijon
France--Evreux
France--Flers-de-l'Orne
France--La Rochelle
France--Le Havre
France--Longvilliers
France--Maubeuge
France--Orléans
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Paris Region
France--Sainte-Maxime-sur-Mer
France--Saint-Riquier
France--Tours
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Rüsselsheim
Germany--Stuttgart
South Africa--East London
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Les Catelliers
France--Domléger-Longvillers
France--Saint-Martin-de-Varreville
France--Sangatte
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944-05-07
1944-05-08
1944-05-11
1944-05-12
1944-05-24
1944-05-25
1944-05-28
1944-06-02
1944-06-03
1944-06-04
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
1944-06-07
1944-06-09
1944-06-10
1944-06-11
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-17
1944-06-18
1944-06-22
1944-07-02
1944-07-04
1944-07-05
1944-07-06
1944-07-12
1944-07-13
1944-07-20
1944-07-21
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-30
1944-08-02
1944-08-03
1944-08-10
1944-08-11
1944-08-25
1944-08-26
1944-08-27
1944-08-28
1944-08-31
1945
1946
1944-06-16
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
12 Squadron
1653 HCU
1656 HCU
50 Squadron
576 Squadron
84 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
air sea rescue
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of the Boulogne E-boats (15/16 June 1944)
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
Cook’s tour
Gee
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
mine laying
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Desborough
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Sturgate
RAF Waddington
RAF Wickenby
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1550/28722/YJamesER[Ser -DoB]v1.pdf
3b4119258fda9405a724f010441e40b2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
James, Ernest Raymond
E R James
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
James, ER
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ernest Raymond James and contains his diary, decorations and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 576 and 582 Squadron Pathfinders.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Roy James and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[Front cover of notebook]
[page break]
[rubber stamp of retailer] Loxley Brothers Ltd.
A LANCASTER
[photograph missing]
Left to Right.
1 A Costling 2 P Raynor 3 JT Smith 4 J Brown 5 DN Reid 7 F Docker 6 R James.
Operations
The Gen Crew.
[Black and White photograph]
Smith
Wop RG Mog Pilot Set Op Eng. Nav.
Brown
[page break]
LEFT TO RIGHT.
Wop ALEX. R. Gun. Mid upp. J Smith. Pilot J Brown BA. D Reid Eng. R James Nav Dockar.
[page break]
MY PAL “BUTCH”
[picture of Air Chief Marshall Arthur Harris]
5
Elsham Wolds. 576 SQD
1st OPERATION
KEIL night
23 July 1944
In The Old J2
Medium to light flak.
Very few searchlights
never saw a fighter.
Quiet A nice trip took 5-30 hrs
Receiver in Wireless went u/s but okay after changing valve. Used emergency working.
No damage to aircraft at all.
Saw no kites Shot Down although a few were.
Good prang saw fires through thick clouds.
[page break]
10
576 Squ
2nd operation
Stuttgart
24 July 1944 Night
in J2
Concentrated heavy flak over the aiming point and along the bombing run
Very few searchlights
Bags of fighters one flew alongside of us. Bags of panic
No damage to the kite at all but quiet [sic] a few were shot down.
Not a bad trip but too many fighters knocking around and 9-15 hrs is too long for me to be in the air
A really good prang
[page break]
15
576 Sqd
3rd Operation
Stuttgart
28th July 1944 Night.
In J2.
More flak than last time and more fighters yes sir a lot more fighters
Few searchlights.
Bags of chop fighters escorted us over France right to target and back again and they were not ours
Last time we couldn’t have pranged it so good but this time I dont [sic] think we will have to go again for a bit.
Rear gunner shot a fighter rocket down.
67 Lancs were lost.
We got away without a scratch.
[page break]
18
576 Sqd.
4th Operation.
31 July 1944. Le Havre day.
In R2
1st Daylight raid.
Target port installations and U boat pens.
Bags of predicted flak.
Saw kite in front shot down in flames. That shook me.
No fighters
Afterwards learned that two destroyers were sunk in the harbour.
Actually saw bombs raining down on target.
We suffered no damage at all.
Starboard outer had to be feathered going out.
We were diverted to Lindholme because of bad weather
Trip lasted 4-30.
[page break]
21
5th Operation. 576 Sqd
3 Aug 1944 Trossy/St Maximin Day.
2nd Daylight Raid.
Flying bomb main depot.
Bags of predicted flak
Saw two kites shot down
No Fighters. Had spitfires escorting us.
Had good view of France
Went quite a way in just north of Paris actually.
B.A. Saw one kite knocked out of the air with some one elses bombs.
Not a very good prang.
It took 4-40 hrs.
Kit was R2.
[page break]
26
576 Sqd
6th Operation
Pauillac. Day.
4th August 1944. 3rd Daylight
Back again in J2
Target was an oil refinery. Escorted by Mosquitoes and Spitfires.
Real good trip and a real smashing prang smoke up to 10,000
Not one burst of flak and no fighters.
Saw huge flames after oil tanks had been hit.
Two tankers were hit.
Went out about 100 ft above the sea.
Altogether the best trip up to now although it took 8-15 hrs.
[page break]
32
576 Sqd
7th Operation
Blave Day
5 August 4 Daylight in J2
Target another oil refinery.
Escorted by spitfires and Mos
Quiet [sic] a decent trip similar to Pauillac just opposite side of river.
Just a bit of flak
One JU 88 got into stream but was last seen heading east with a few Mos on his tail.
Not quiet [sic] as good a prang as yesterdays but a nice trip
It took 8-25 hrs.
Diverted to Worksop.
[page break]
35
576 Sqd.
8th Operation.
Battle area (Nr Caen)
7th august 1944 Night attack.
Target. German defences holding up our troops.
Just light flak.
A few enemy night fighters.
Rear gunner saw one but it didnt [sic] see us. Thank the lord.
Very unsatisfactory raid
PFF ran out of target indictors.
We brought all our bombs back.
Trip took 4-10 hrs
Kite was J2.
PS. That was our last trip from 576 Sqd. and as PFF had boobed on the trip above we thought we would try our hand at it.
[page break]
40
[newspaper cutting]
Little Staughton PFF 582 Sqd.
Stettin. Night.
29th August 1944. 9th Operation.
Target was the Town & Docks
In another J.
To show there was no ill feeling we went right over Sweden and boy their lit up towns sure looked good. Their light flak look very pretty too.
Over Stettin there was one huge belt of searchlights and more flak than I have ever seen before
Quite a few fighters around but we weren’t attacked.
Actually we were the first kite over Stettin.
Not a bad trip but I think rather too long.
It took 9-20.
[page break]
45
1st Rhur Trip.
11-9-44. PFF 582 Sqd.
10th Operation. Day.
(Castrop Rauxiel)
In the Rhur. Five miles from Dortmund.
Synthetic Oil Plant.
Kite was E
First kite over target again and plenty of flak to welcome us. It was just like one solid wall. bits of flak hit various parts of kite including the starboard outer engine
No fighters were seen and only nine aircraft were lost. Every kite on our squadron had some damage due to flak.
Trip took 3¾ hours
Did two bombing runs as no Tis were down when we first arrived and that was no picnic
[page break]
50
13 Sept 1944. PFF Sqd 582
11th Operation.
Day. Target Osnabruck
Big railway junction.
Kite was E.
Slight flak
No fighters
Quite a good prang bags of black smoke looked as if some oil had been hit.
Cruised round target to watch the main force bomb. Saw the old cookies going down.
A real good trip
It lasted 4 hrs 5 mins.
Want rest of trips like this one
[page break]
55
[newspaper cutting]
PFF 582 Sqd.
12 th Operation.
15 Sept. Kiel Night.
Target was the town.
Medium flak
Few searchlights.
Night fighters just a few
Kite was O
First kite over target again
Saw Jerries spoof target indicators going down.
Quiet [sic] a decent prang bit that I saw of it.
The kite was in a terrible condition and I never expected it getting to Kiel never mind getting us back.
Trip lasted 5 hrs 35 mins. Similar to last Kiel raid.
First Electric storm we had experienced and it was quite interesting to watch.
[page break]
60
PFF 582 Sqd.
13th Operation
5 Oct. Saarbrucken .
Night.
Target was town which is a supply base for the Siegfreid [sic] line.
Medium flack
Plenty of fighters
As we were late we had to retain our flares.
Not a very eventful trip it lasted 5-10.
Seemed to be a very good prang bit what I saw of it.
Attacked by a JU88 but we evaded okay.
[page break]
65
2nd Rhur Trip
[newspaper cutting]
7 Oct. Saturday morning.
Just been out to the kite and up to now they have found 60 flak holes in her. The No 1 fuel tank (starb) had been holed and starb inner feathering pipe line almost in two
PFF Sqd 582
14th Operation.
6th Oct 1944 day.
Scholven (Rhur).
The most intense heavy predicted flak we have ever seen.
Every one of the engines hit. So many holes in kite that we couldn’t count them. Me and bomb aimer in the nose when nose was hit. Piece of flack hit him and went in his shoulder he is now in hospital. Gee what a feeling when that lump hit us.
We now have some respect for Jerries gunners.
No fighters
Trip lasted 3-45
[page break]
70
3rd Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd
15th Operation
12th Oct 1944. Day.
Wanneikel (Rhur.)
Worst trip we have had.
Not much flak but deadly accurate and we seemed to be the target all the time.
We were it on the way to the target but no extensive damage was done then we were hit on the bombing run. After bombing we were hit and the port inner started to smoke after it was feathered the starboard inner packed up and we found we couldn’t feather it.
The starboard outer had a bad oil leak and the temp went up to 130. With only two engines running we lost height down to 4500 and coming back away from the target they let us have it again this time hitting
[page break]
the oxygen supply lines.
We tried to get a landing field in Belgium and France but it was no good and we knew we should have to get it back to England. So we went south down France and across where the channel was the narrowest and obtained permission to land at Manston their emergency run way. With a deadly cross wind we got the undercart down with emergency air and managed to feather the starb inner engine. Then to finish things off in a fine style we found the starb wheel was flat. Well, on landing we swung over to starboard and ripped off one of the wheels. Then the kite caught fire and boy I reckon no one ever got out of a kite so quick as us. So after all the trouble we had, we had the pleasure of seeing the kite burn after one of the tanks had exploded and I guess that was the end of Apple.
But it was pretty hot and we didnt [sic] feel safe until we had two feet firmly on the floor.
Well thats [sic] the third time we have been shot up over the happy valley and believe me the Rhur is no picnic at night so in daylight as can be guessed it’s pretty grim.
Gee it was a close one.
[page break]
75
[aerial photograph]
Confirmed not only biggest RAF daylight raid but the heaviest raid ever on any target in the war (up to now). We dropped more than 4500 tons in 25 minutes.
BBC reporter gave very good description of the target as he saw it.
4th Rhur Trips.
16 Operation: PFF 582 Sqd.
Oct 14 1944. Day (Morning).
Bombed at 0907.
Duisburg. (Happy Valley).
Another Rhur trip but much more pleasant.
Flak didn’t hinder us at all got quite a real good bombing run and the target was well ablaze before I bombed.
Was the biggest show put on by Bomber Command in daylight over 1,000 bombers took part.
This was why the flak didn’t bother us very much.
No enemy fighters. We had 16 squadrons of fighters escorting us.
Very good trip it lasted 3 hrs 35 mins.
We carried incendries.
[page break]
80
5th Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
17th Operation.
Duisburg. Night.
Attacked at approx 0320 on morning of 15th Oct 1944.
Saw blaze from fires started in last raid about 100 miles from target and when we were coming back they were still visible 150 miles away.
The target was one huge blazing inferno but the flak was still rather active.
Saw no fighters
Didn’t’ fly with my crew I went with a crew whose engineer was on leave.
Not a bad trip picture of Lanc. dropping incenderies over Duisburg.
[page break]
85
18th Operation. PFF 582 Sqd
15 Oct. Night.
Wilhelmshaven.
Attacked at 1535 sat night. Naval base. Was the target.
Not a great deal of flak but it was pretty accurate.
Had to bomb on DR as we were first on and no Tis were down when we were there.
We were attacked by a fighter but rear gunner saw it coming in and we did evasive action and lost it.
Quite a good trip it lasted 4 hrs 10 mins
Kite was “B”eer
[page break]
16 Day Oct 1944.
Daily Express reporters impressions of the two Duisburg.
[newspaper cutting]
[page break]
90
6th Rhur Trip
PFF. 582 Sqd.
19th Operation
25 Oct. 1944. Daylight.
Target Homberg. Rhur.
(Opposite side of river to Duisburg)
Flak rather intense mainly from Duisburg.
No Fighters
Quite a sight to see all the bombers going out to Essen and to our target.
Couldn’t see results of the attack because of the thick cloud.
Saw one kite or what was left of it burning might have been a scare-crow.
Trip lasted approx 4 hrs
Kite was “E”asy.
[page break]
93
[aerial photograph]
PFF 582 Sqd.
20th Operation. 28 Oct 1944.
Walcheren.
Dutch Island.
Target Defence Positions.
No flak.
No fighters.
Bang on attack
bombed at 4,700
Perfect run in and got an aiming point.
Wouldn’t mind rest of trips like this one.
It only lasted about 2 hrs.
First time we have had icing as bad as this.
[page break]
98
PFF 582 Sqd.
Night
21st Operation. 30 Oct 1944.
Cologne.
Bags of predicted flak. Quiet [sic] a few fighters around
No searchlights.
Almost a full moon. 10 cloud. Bombed on Wanganowi [sic] flares.
Flak was shooting them out of the sky.
Hit in both starboard fuel tanks lost a lot of fuel. Both generators went for a burton and the 1196 us.
It lasted about. 4-40.
This is another trip I’ve done with another crew.
900 aircraft on.
[page break]
103
BBC reporter Richard Dimbleby flew with our squadron on the way back they were calling up George and asking if Richard was alright I didnt [sic] hear them call up and as if we were okay in L London though
PFF 582 Sqd.
22nd Operation. 31st Oct 1944.
Cologne.
Night.
Not very much flak. Bags of fighters and quite a lot were the new jet propulsion type
No searchlights.
full moon made almost like a daylight operation.
Were not hit at all by flak
Saw one kite shot down by flak over the target.
500 aircraft took part.
Went with same crew as last time.
[page break]
108
[indecipherable word] aiming point.
[newspaper cutting]
PFF 582 Sqd
23rd Operation 16 Nov 1944.
Target “Julich”.
Daylight.
Medium flak
No fighters seen
Had to feather port outer just out of target area. But not through enemy action. Made two runs over target.
Over 2,000 aircraft on these targets today. Most important raids since D day. Said this was the beginning of end of the Third Reich as the Americans were to advance across Rhine. These raids were prelude to the advance.
No flak damage this time again.
Trip lasted 4 hrs.
[page break]
113
[aerial photograph]
Caught a packet.
Saw no kites shot down but the bombing seemed rather haphazard.
Trip took 3 3/4 Hrs.
7th Rhur. PFF 582 Sqd.
24th Operation 18th Nov 1944
Target “Munster”.
Daylight.
No fighters.
Medium Flak.
Biggest daylight penetration by RAF Bomber Command and fighter opposition was expected but none were met.
Pretty accurate flak at points into the target but nothing to worry about. As we approached Munster we saw a bit of flak coming up and then it stopped all together
Had some trouble with Gee at take off and just before the target a hatch blew off and with the noise it made we thought we had
[page break]
118
8th Rhur trip PFF582 Sqd
25 th Operation. 21 Nov 1944.
Night
Target Castrop Rauxiel [sic]
Synthetic oil plant.
Medium flak.
Few fighters.
Bags of searchlights.
Got hit last time we went there but didn’t this time. Although the flak seemed pretty accurate.
The searchlights coned us once but we soon got away and I wasn’t sorry either.
We had no trouble with the fighters.
Not a bad trip saw bags of activity as we passed over the front line.
trip lasted 4 1/2 hrs approx.
[page break]
123
9th Ruhr Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
26 Operation. 27 November.
Target. Neuss.
Slight heavy flak.
No fighters.
Few searchlights.
No trouble at all on this trip one of the quietest trips we have had.
Saw bags of activity on the front line and they were firing at us with light flak but it caused us no trouble.
Trip lasted approx. 4 1/2 hrs.
[page break]
128
10th Rhur Trip
PFF582 Sqd.
27 Operation. 30 Nov.
Target. Duisburg.
Night.
Medium heavy flak
Very few searchlights.
No fighters.
a real good trip no trouble at all and it seemed quite a decent prang.
Use ground and sky markers but cloud hid ground Tis quite effectively.
Trip lasted 4 1/4 hrs.
[page break]
133
PFF 582 Sqd.
28 Operation. 3 Dec 1944.
Target. Heimbach.
Daylight.
Dam Busting.
Flak Nil.
Fighters Few. (ME 262)
Tactical Target.
Unable to bomb covered with cloud which was 1000 ft base so had to cancel raid. Brought all bombs back
Very disappointing raid
Raid lasted 4 1/2 hrs.
[page break]
138
PFF 582 Sqd.
29th Operation. 6th Dec 1944
Target: Leipzig.
Oil Refiner.
Bags of heavy flak.
Bags fighters.
No Searchlights.
Being the second largest oil refinery in Germany it was very well defended.
Were attacked by fighter. But we evaded them okay. Thanks to gunners spotting him.
Saw a target which was pranged earlier on by Bomber Command and boy was it blazing. This trip tired us out more than any. Maybe because we are used to the Rhur.
Trip lasted. 6 3/4 hrs.
[page break]
143
11 Rhur Trip.
PFF 582 Sqd.
30th Operation. 13 Dec 1944
Night.
Target Essen.
Rail Centre.
Very heavy heavy flak.
Lot of fighters.
No searchlights.
Not a bad trip but the flak was pretty heavy and very accurate
Quiet [sic] a few jet fighters knocking around but we wern’t [sic] attacked.
saw two kites shot down over target.
Trip lasted approx 4 hrs.
[page break]
148
[aerial photograph]
PFF 582Sqd.
31st Operation 15 Dec
Target. Ludwigshaven
Chemical Industry.
Slight heavy flak.
No fighters.
Lots of searchlights.
Feathered engine going to target after it had caught fire. That was after I had feathered the wrong one. I sure had my finger jammed then. Had a little difficulty on landing with choosing the grass to land on instead of the runway. Finger trouble again. Looked a real good prang.
Trip lasted approx 5 hrs.
[page break]
152
12th Rhur Trip.
152.
PFF 582 Sqd.
32nd Operation. 18 Dec.
Target
Duisburg.
Slight heavy flak.
Few fighters.
Few searchlights.
Flak did cause us to alter course coming out of the target but other than that it caused us no trouble at all.
One fighter crossed just above us from starboard to port but he didnt [sic] see us.
Coming out of the target we were attacked. Rear Gunner let him have it. but he didnt [sic] return our fire and we lost him. Not a bad trip.
It lasted 4 3/4 hrs.
[page break]
End of Tour.
No of trips 32
German 26
French 5
Dutch 1.
No of Daylights. 14
No of Nights 18
No of Rhur Trips 12
Total No of Points 152.
Pilot. JE Brown (three engine Brown they call me)
Navigator. F Dockar
Bomb Aimer. M Reid
Wireless Operator.
Mid Upper Gunner. J. D. Smith
Rear Gunner. [signature]
Engineer. [signature]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
ER James War Diary
Description
An account of the resource
A detailed diary of ER James' operations. On the first pages are a photograph of his crew and their names. Included with the text are several aerial photographs and newspaper cuttings.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
38 page handwritten diary
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Diary
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Stuttgart
France--Le Havre
France--Creil
France--Paris
France--Blaye
France--Caen
Poland--Szczecin
Russia (Federation)--Kaliningrad (Kaliningradskai︠a︡ oblastʹ)
Germany--Castrop-Rauxel
Germany--Saarbrücken
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Netherlands--Walcheren
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Jülich
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Essen
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
France
Germany
Poland
Netherlands
Russia (Federation)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
YJamesER[Ser#-DoB]v1
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jan Waller
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
E R James
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-28
1944-07-31
1944-08-03
1944-08-04
1944-08-05
1944-08-07
1944-08-29
1944-09-11
1944-09-13
1944-09-15
1944-10-05
1944-10-06
1944-10-12
1944-10-14
1944-10-17
1944-10-15
1944-10-16
1944-10-25
1944-10-28
1944-10-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-16
1944-11-18
1944-11-21
1944-11-30
1944-12-03
1944-12-06
1944-12-13
1944-12-15
1944-12-18
576 Squadron
582 Squadron
aerial photograph
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bomb struck
bombing
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
flight engineer
forced landing
Halifax
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Ju 88
Lancaster
Me 262
Mosquito
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Pathfinders
pilot
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Lindholme
RAF Little Staughton
RAF Manston
RAF Worksop
Spitfire
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
target photograph
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1376/23939/MFordTA1585520-170411-050001.2.jpg
f1e652f70ae895a3d9b1358ced9ce1bf
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1376/23939/MFordTA1585520-170411-050002.2.jpg
95c2f7861babde9765a43f0ed947eed9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ford, Terry
Ford, T
Description
An account of the resource
135 items. The collection concerns Terry Ford. He flew operations as a pilot with 75 Squadron. It contains photographs, his log book, operational maps, letters home during training, and documents including emergency drills. There are two albums of photographs, one of navigation logs, and another of target photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Julia Burke and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Ford, T
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Westkapelle, October 3, 1944
Description
An account of the resource
A battle order for the attack on Westkapelle, Vlissingen. It covers the fighter support, Pathfinders and the bomber squadrons and bases involved.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-10-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two typewritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MFordTA1585520-170411-050001,
MFordTA1585520-170411-050002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Netherlands
Netherlands--Vlissingen
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-10-03
1 Group
100 Squadron
101 Squadron
103 Squadron
105 Squadron
109 Squadron
115 Squadron
12 Squadron
149 Squadron
15 Squadron
166 Squadron
218 Squadron
3 Group
300 Squadron
460 Squadron
514 Squadron
550 Squadron
576 Squadron
582 Squadron
617 Squadron
622 Squadron
625 Squadron
626 Squadron
75 Squadron
90 Squadron
bombing
Lancaster
Mosquito
Pathfinders
RAF Binbrook
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Faldingworth
RAF Grimsby
RAF Kelstern
RAF Kirmington
RAF Ludford Magna
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF North Killingholme
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Wickenby
RAF Witchford
RAF Woodhall Spa
Spitfire
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1358/22527/PGrahamJ1701.2.jpg
03356d596bab678bf0be72fb90daba8c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1358/22527/AGrahamJ170927.2.mp3
412f4cb7442925548a15d9c754948cc3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Graham, Jimmy
James Graham
J Graham
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Jimmy Graham DFM. He flew operations as an air gunner with 567 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Graham, J
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JG: The job I had —
AM: I just, I just have to say a wee bit at the beginning.
JG: Yeah.
AM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is —
JG: Yeah.
AM: Alistair Montgomery. Monty. And the interviewee is Warrant Officer Jimmy Graham. The interview is taking place at Mr Graham’s home in Kilwinning, Ayrshire and his daughter Alison, is present. Jimmy, just to start could you tell me a little bit about your family background and where you lived before you joined the Royal Air Force.
JG: Yeah. I was born in Irvine, and I went to school in Irvine. And there I got myself a job there when I grew up. The job was a Reserved Occupation. The war itself had now [pause] the war, the job that I was after it was a Reserved Occupation. To get in to the Air Force along the line I went up to Glasgow to volunteer and told a pack of lies. Yeah. Because, well the reason for that is none of us wanting to join the Royal Scots Fusiliers. That’s where, that’s the one you got shoved into, and so in the end I was taken on in to the Air Force and I got posted once I’d joined joining up side, I got posted up to Leuchars. And that was the start. And then I left Leuchars and went to Ireland.
AM: Right.
JG: RAF there. I had a job there, what was it. I was working in flying control there as well. And —
AM: So, you went to Ireland with the Royal Air Force.
JG: Aye.
AM: Right.
JG: And so in the Royal Air Force in there I volunteered for aircrew and I got all the medical side done in Ireland.
AM: Whereabouts in Ireland?
JG: What?
AM: Whereabouts in Ireland?
JG: Oh, it would be about [pause] about seven mile out of Belfast.
AM: Right.
JG: There.
AM: Ballykelly or something like that.
JG: What?
AM: Ballykelly.
JG: Nutts, Nutts Corner.
AM: Right.
JG: That’s it. Nutts Corner. Yeah. And well, I volunteered for aircrew and I got posted. I did some training, believe it or not in Lord’s Cricket Ground.
AM: Right.
JG: But all the Air Force took it over and some of the big houses. We got put in the houses until we got timed to get in to the big stuff. The next things. What’s the possible thing, Finningley? I went to Finningley, and I got all the training you need to get there to start off, and you, you graduated a wee bit higher up, and I went there and then I went off.
AM: And were you flying at Finningley or was it all on the ground?
JG: Oh no I was flying there.
AM: Right.
JG: Yeah, I learned away from, I think I was in to, I was at Leuchars and I left Leuchars and then I started flying from Leuchars, and so it was a case of training, training, training until you go on to a squadron and that was you away.
AM: Right. And did you want to be an air gunner or were you told?
JG: I was told.
AM: Told you were going to be an air gunner.
JG: I was told. I had no option.
AM: Right.
JG: Yeah. I think they were losing too many.
AM: Right. What, what episode stands out the most during your training period? Was there anything that was really memorable? Or —
JG: And on the training side [pause] I think that went pretty well. That period there. Everything was good about Finningley in all that time, the whole time we was there, and then we moved on after that on to the next one.
Other: After Finningley.
JG: Aye.
Other: Blyton.
JG: Blyton. That’s it. Yeah.
AM: At what stage did you join a crew? An operational crew.
JG: Oh, that comes at, once I left those two places. I went down to, down to, into Scotland. I got posted down to, I think it was, where that was, but what happened there was that they had a good method of crewing up people. Let’s say there’s a hundred altogether and a, it’s in a big hangar.
AM: Right.
JG: And they kept moving about and moving about, and they were, let’s say there’s a hundred pilots, and a hundred navigators around the same and that’s how the pilot there he’s looking around for someone to make up his crew, and that goes on and on, and on sand on until you’ve got seven there. That’s a good system that, and it worked.
AM: And once you had crewed up did you stay with that crew?
JG: Oh aye.
AM: Right. Tell me just a little bit about the very first time that you flew an operational sortie.
JG: The first time. I think it was intentional you got one that teach you just in to France and no more. Just in and out.
AM: Right.
JG: And that was the pattern.
AM: AM: Right.
JG: But the first operation I did. The big one. The Capital.
AM: To Berlin.
JG: Berlin. Aye. It was the. It was big. Well, they learned then that there was, a thousand aircraft at a time [unclear] yeah. A thousand. Yeah. The reason for the thousand is that Harris, who was the boss of the RAF. He had the same approach as America had when America dropped an atom bomb. The reason for dropping the atom bomb was to stop the war, and they did. Harris tried the same with the RAF, and the hundred at a time to be sitting there in the air, but then, again the, the average, no not the average, it was two to three hundred at a time used to go and do ops. There was about a thousand for Berlin. That was his idea. In fact, I’ll show you ahead now. The war is finished, and Churchill has now gone on to see things you see and he saw the mess of the big city, and he were very cunning. He didn’t want anything to do with that. It wasn’t me that did that. And that’s how the RAF don’t like Churchill because all the bosses of the Army and the Navy and that they were all [unclear] and the Air Force boys got nothing, and that. So that took me into the big stuff.
AM: Just Tell me a little bit about this. About how you felt about going on your very first mission to berlin. You know, from, from, from meeting in the operations room, getting to the aeroplane.
JG: Yeah. There was never any sign of dozing off. You were, you were alive all the time, oh aye. Oh, very much. Oh no. It was even towards the end I was very much alive all the way.
AM: Right.
JG: Oh aye.
AM: And what sort of flying clothing did you wear?
JG: I I was a rear gunner so I could connect up electricity and get warm. I had a complete suit.
AM: This is an electrically heated suit.
JG: Yeah.
AM: Right. And did it work?
JG: Oh aye.
Other: It was interesting the time we saw the Lancasters down at Prestwick, and, and the crew were out and being very supportive of the veterans and he said of course we didn’t have that when they had the Perspex bubble, and we said that was taken away very immediately, because the discovered that in the sky you got oil slicks on there so the gunners couldn’t see anything. That’s why that was taken away.
JG: Yeah.
Other: So, you were basically sitting out in fresh air.
JG: Aye.
Other: Hence the need for the electric suit.
JG: Aye.
AM: Tell me about the, the first time you saw flak coming up at your aeroplane.
JG: It may sound daft, you know, but you saw these things coming up at the side, and I had, I think [unclear] but, you know at that altitude, ‘Oh he’s missed. He’s missed me. He’s missed me.’ but, no the thing was that I forget the thing that we got. We’d got a tablet before. It was to make you, you know, there was no sign of sleeping or anything like that. You got a wee tablet for that.
Other: Do you have any idea what the tablet was?
JG: I forgot, Alison that side of it, but we got a tablet about nearly half an hour before you had to the big one.
AM: Right. Was this Benzedrine or —
JG: I forgot the name of it.
AM: Right.
JG: But we definitely, we all got the tablet. I don’t know about the pilot but I know all the gunners we got a pill.
AM: And did it work.
JG: Oh aye.
AM: Right. Right. And what was it actually like seeing flak for the first time?
JG: It, it was queer to begin with in terms, to me the fact for the first time is, I found the result together. The feeling now, that we’re safe enough now, because of the, the volume of, of Lancasters and that. To the picture that town with that up there, a thousand. Churchill, meant that Berlin was hammered. It was in a big mess, and Churchill was very cunning, it was down to him.
AM: Tell me a little about this manoeuvre called the corkscrew.
JG: Oh.
AM: Did you ever have to do that?
JG: Aye. At the [pause] Certainly, anyway, I’d better put it this way as well, on our way back from doing a job I, I was the gaffer. The reason for that is the pilot cannot see in front. He cannot see. So, I tell him what to do because I can see and do everything. He’s flying. I’m just defending. And everything the boss called Murray? come to a raid that we did, but we just had left having got to bomb and head for home when two Germans got behind me and they were flying this way on that trip. So, I, I said to Charles, ‘Hold it. Hold it, just now.’ I said, ‘We’ve got company now,’ for some time, and it went on and on. And I said to Charlie, ‘Charlie, I want to get down and fly on the roofs of all the houses.’ And he wouldn’t have it but I bawled at him and made him do it, and my attitude is that they’re not going to come down and fire on me. They’ll maybe hit Germans.
AM: And was this a day sortie or a night sortie?
JG: Oh no, mostly the night.
AM: Right.
JG: Oh aye. Yeah.
AM: And —
JG: Then when I got him to fly right down all the way to, to, in to, in to France, and then we, when we flew along the North Sea side, we had only two engines. He’d shot two off and we landed West Malling in Kent.
AM: Tell me a wee bit more of this attack that shot out two of your engines then. What exactly happened?
JG: When, when we were shot.
AM: Aye.
JG: That was, there was two of them firing away like hell. My turret got jammed, on, when I was out, and I was stuck that way, and what had happened they, they had hit all, the boys had hit the hydraulics and I couldn’t move it. So, I was able to talk to him but, the, the pilot and me got along great. Aye. And as I say we landed at West Malling in Kent, and we saw the aircraft the following morning and it was riddled, and there wasn’t a bullet that hit any seven of us, up to it finished.
AM: Had you thought at any time you might have to bale out?
JG: Did we what?
Did you think at any time you would have to bale out?
JG: I’m not so sure I can answer that rightly. I never thought about baling out. I was, as I said early on, I was dreading I would bale out, and the reason I was dreading it was that, the inside of a Lancaster, let’s see, it’s the length of the house here, and I’m the rear turret, but to get out the aircraft, I had to go halfway along, you see. Now, yeah, and then there was a, there was part of the strength of the, the aircraft, there’s a kind of, a kind of metal that height. You had to jump over it.
AM: So, it was the main spar.
JG: That’s it. Aye.
AM: Right.
JG: And then that were my biggest fear is that I had to, I had to get out of there and put it this way they’ve now made a parachute for a rear gunner and you can sit on it.
AM: Right.
JG: And —
AM: But your parachute was at the front.
JG: No. It was hanging, I took it out into the middle of the aircraft, and it was hanging up. I had to take it there.
AM: Right. Was that in a Mark 1 Lancaster?
JG: We each had the they were all in one. It was the outside of that metal bit inside.
AM: Right.
JG: To go to get through the plane. Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And was there any trip that you flew that you really thought you would have to abandon the aircraft a lot.
JG: Oh, we got, there was no question about that, you know. Let’s face it. You can go and do a trip to Germany and France and nothing happen. That can happen. And as I say you’re locked in, but I thought many a time that, what the hell do I do here now. The, the main thing is with me is that, and my life even now, don’t panic, don’t panic at all, you give that up, and. So put it this way if I had to, I could cope. Oh aye.
AM: What did you think when you saw another Lancaster in the stream being shot down?
JG: In what way?
AM: Well, I mean
[unclear]
AM: I’ll just put it off a second.
[recording paused]
JG: But that, there’s no question about it, you’re lucky if you miss the flak, because it’s coming all the time. Yeah. That, and, it could be curtains then if you’re hit then, but no I certainly didn’t panic.
AM: No.
JG: No.
AM: And of all the many missions that you undertook were there any that really stood out from the others?
JG: In what way?
AM: Well, in terms of being more dangerous or extremely long or very difficult.
No. As I said earlier that I was quite calm in, in the turret. You know that, I was moving about, moving about, and I was quite calm.
Other: Dad, of all the different things you did is there one particular mission that you remember most vividly?
JG: Oh aye. I was touching on it a wee while ago there. It was in Germany. These two aircraft fastened on to us. I had a hell of job on now, and that’s when I said to the skipper. Get down on the top of the roof, and we’ll see all the way and flew all the way across the continent down that level all the way. That was the one time that. Well, there was one or two. Let me think.
Other: What about Mailly?
JG: Eh?
Other: What about Mailly? You know, which one of the many things you did stands out most strongly in your mind?
JG: Oh, wait a minute. I’ll come to it. Well, have you heard of Mailly le Camp?
AM: Yes.
JG: I see. I thought that. To begin with whoever thought up that he should be bloody shot. The reason is that, you’re a sitting duck just doing that. The, the ideal thing was that they should have made a triangle, fly A, B, C, actual flying, on the raid, but we were all set up for the fighters, the night fighters. I mean, I was in amongst it. There were, I was seeing two Lancasters flashing each other. Oh aye. But I think there’s a wee bit in there, it was fierce fighting in the whole war. Mailly. It was the worst in the whole war. Mailly.
AM: And do you know why you were sent to that target?
JG: Oh aye. Well, the Germans had brought all the big tanks, from let’s say in France to, to that part. It was like an invasion now to get all these big super tanks and they had many of the men there who were Russians, aye, but they were prisoners and the Germans used them for maintenance on, on the, and most of them got killed and, but that, that was at, what, what. There was the Free French who kept phoning us to say that’s another ten there, that’s, and they kept saying you have to do something. That’s what it was built up to. They were going to try to stop us coming.
AM: And why do you think you were sent in to an orbit?
JG: I don’t know. Now, the guy, I mean in this in a way, the guy that thought it out should have got shot. I mean, the fact that you were doing that you’re stuck the one the area. Fighters can come from everywhere to that one bit and that’s what happened. Well, I’d have said, ‘Right. You got Kilmarnock. You go to Ayr. And you go to Girvin.’ And if we had kept doing that that would have worked but that was that. It was mad.
AM: How long were you over the target for?
JG: Well, wait a minute. Time. Oh, a hell of a time, sat. You see one of, one of the things, we were circling around because we had what we call they sent the people to find the actual target, so they were to go and they’re circling round, and when they find it, they’ll drop colours there.
AM: A marker.
JG: Aye. A marker. That’s right, and, but we certainly weren’t an hour away from that bit, but that was it. We were told it should be one of the things that happened there as well is the Germans, the Germans arrived, and they cut off our connection. So, the only thing we got was American dance music.
AM: So, so—
JG: That was the way to dance.
AM: The Gee beacon was cut out. Is that it? Right.
JG: No, the Germans did that themselves. They did change it to the national stuff and we couldn’t we couldn’t contact each other.
AM: So, the radio was jammed.
JG: That was done to begin with. Aye. Yeah. Yeah. Towards the end at the tape that they put on or something changed, and we got back, but that was the worst time. I heard, and the feeling was then was, ‘To hell with this. I’m going in.’ And so, the whole lot of us went in, didn’t wait on the colours, you could see that a lower column we went into that spot and then did our jobs. Aye.
AM: Gosh.
JG: But that, at that time, but at that time, it was frightening that one. It was incredible watching two Lancs. Yeah. I think earlier, but when I was on at that, the young German pilot, he shot three down right away, and he noticed, and he was on his own aircraft that he needed fuel, so what he would, when was near his own airport, he went down and topped up and came back up and got another two. He got five. What a mess. But all doing this. And I say that’s when I heard, I can remember that voice saying, ‘Oh to hell with this I’m going in.’ [thumping noise] And we all went, and that was that, yeah. It’s the worst, I might be able to read into it a bit, bit in there, but that was the worst in the whole war, the whole war. That one.
AM: Tell me a little bit about, about your crew. Tell me about the rest of your crew. Those that you can remember, and what were they like.
JG: I can —
AM: How you got on with them.
JG: I got on all right with them. The system was, the operation on, so you all met in this big hangar and it was full, all the place and you’re inside, and when you’re in there on the wall is that, that that, you’re going there. And if you were away a certain distance my bomb aimer took diarrhoea. That’s true. He couldn’t go, that he couldn’t go, so they had to get somebody to take his place, aye. Even now as I say you bastard, oh aye, that was that. But no. Mailly —
Other: You kept quite good contact with your crew.
JG: Oh aye.
Other: Over the years after the war.
Oh aye. The pilot. [unclear] We were going to, to Lincolnshire once a year to commemorate the Mailly thing, and my bomber he lived in Gainsborough which was next to the aerodrome, but as I say, I got along alright with him, but certainly when he saw where were going to land, he took diarrhoea, and the mid-upper gunner, was very slow, he didn’t see a thing at all and he was up there and I never did anything. And that was that. But I got on with the pilot very well and even I was offered to do a second tour and I turned it down. So, he crewed up, and I went on a second tour but when the war was all finished, he phoned me to go down and visit him. Anyway, he lived in [unclear] not far from Carlisle, and so I saw him quite often. The navigator, sorry for him, he an excellent navigator, super. But he was Canadian but the family had two houses. One in America and one in Canada, and he was in the, he was in America he got an [unclear], and when he finished flying with us, he volunteered and joined the pilot and the American war with Japan. Yeah. So I went to visit him and he was completely shattered. Oh aye. That was two wars. Aye. He was in a mess.
AM: Gosh.
JG: Ah huh. Yeah. And not the same man. But, and the pilot, I saw him very often, but the navigator. The wireless operator. A hell of a good lad. A great bloke. He had a job on the railway at one time and, but that was the only reason for him and his diarrhoea.
AM: Now, as a crew did you, did you go out socialising at all?
JG: Oh aye.
AM: And was that in to Lincoln or —
JG: Oh, no. We had for example you had your own fitter looking after your aircraft and you took them out but they were doing a good job for you all the time but —
Other: So where did you all go? Where?
JG: We went Doncaster.
Other: Doncaster.
JG: Aye.
AM: Was that when you were at Elsham Wolds? Was that when you were at Elsham. Right.
JG: Maybe sound daft, but come the time when the you, you crack so you go down there, and it’s all aircrew, it’s in there now, the whole lot, and all with. Wilson had a hell of a dram, and in fact I went to a funeral and I met with another fella, navigator, and when I was leaving him, I said I’ll get you in the [unclear] Thursday, that’s where all the [pause] In fact, I thought the other day I’ll get a card from him, and I tried to say I’ll see you on Thursday in the [unclear] but they were there to get drunk. Oh aye.
AM: Was that the best the pub in Doncaster then?
JG: In that area. That’s right.
AM: Right. Right. You mentioned the, the ground crew.
JG: The —
AM: The ground crew that looked after the aircraft.
JG: Oh aye.
AM: I mean apart from going out to the pub did you see a lot of them?
JG: Oh aye. Yeah. Aye. Ah huh. Oh, and of course there was what you call the NAAFI.
AM: Right.
You know you would get them in the NAAFI, and they would sit there [unclear], and they were quite good.
AM: And what was, what was the social life like in the, in the sergeant and the warrant officer’s mess?
JG: I thought it was ok. No. as I say, I got to WAM: O, and I was quite happy there. What were you when you, what did you finish up as?
AM: I was a pilot.
JG: Aye, but were you a warrant officer.
AM: A group captain.
JG: Were you a group?
AM: Hmmn.
JG: By golly. I should be standing.
AM: [laughs] Jimmy what was your, what was your favourite airfield?
JG: Elsham Wolds. It was a, everything was good about it, it had everything that I needed there, it was quite good. But we the other crew that was on with us the fact on 103 that’s what they were at. And —
AM: So, there were two squadrons there.
JG: There were two there and we used to take the mickey out of each other at the NAAFI, and we I’ll do it while we’re here, is that, 103 [sings] ‘103, they aint what they used to be. 576 are the best.’
[laughter]
AM: And how did 103 take that?
JG: Not very good.
AM: No. I can imagine that.
JG: Now, believe it or not, it seemed daft but, let me see if I can say it, but, you were both of you have been out, and places, and come back in and two of their [unclear] come back, things like that, that’s the thing, and you certainly, you feel, you know, what, what you normally do then is that maybe they get caught, maybe, maybe things are in their favour. Maybe get back. But, but no, they got on pretty well, the two squadrons but all that was the bit we used to sing to them.
AM: Tell me during your tour of operations when you had some leave did, did you go home?
JG: When I left when I left home. Yes, I did aye, because I wasn’t too far away.
AM: Right.
JG: I was down at Wigan. Down there.
AM: Is that where your parents were?
JG: That’s where, I was staying, I stayed at Irvine at the time.
AM: Oh right.
JG: So when, when I got into aircrew I got a posting, it was deliberate I think it was, nearer home and I made good use of that, you know that, because a firm [unclear] did all the washing. Laundered stuff. And [unclear] I got home then.
AM: Right.
JG: And things like that.
AM: There’s quite a big difference between your life in the air and then coming to visit family.
JG: Oh aye.
AM: How did you feel with that? Was it difficult or —
JG: No. It wasn’t difficult. No. No.
AM: How did your parents feel about the fact that you were aircrew?
JG: Well, they were quite happy. They looked at it as their boy was a lot bigger now than their little boys, or something like that, and they had wings on, or something on, thing up there.
AM: Right.
JG: Same as you with your four-ring belt, [unclear] too many steps there, I’d have got the uniform.
Other: Dad, did you ever go to spend time with one of your crew who lived near Lincolnshire?
JG: What?
Other: Was it the Carters?
JG: No, no. I think I mentioned it. [Tug] the navigator. He, he settled all together with one another. The navigator was [unclear] but and on top of that, the fact that they lived half and half in America he was accepted in to the American Air Force. And he went in there was the pilot and he had a rough time. But, but the thing with that was two, two lots of fighting here and in Japan, it was on out there. He had a rough time, could tell, he went inside the house what he was like but, he was, he was a very smart looking boy, so he was [unclear] but, and then his wife was the same. And the pilot and myself went to visit him.
Other: Who was it in your crew who lived in Lincolnshire? Was it the bomber?
JG: Left us altogether —
Other: No. Who lived in Lincolnshire? Was it —
JG: Nick Carter.
Other: Nick Carter. Right.
JG: Aye. Aye.
Other: And what did he do?
JG: He was the bomb aimer
Other: He was the bomb aimer.
JG: Aye. He was.
Other: So sometimes when you had leave, you went to stay with him and his family.
JG: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.
Other: Yes.
AM: Jimmy, when was your last operational sortie? Can you remember it?
JG: My last one. I’ll tell, you you’ve got me beat.
AM: I’ll just.
JG: Thats’s right.
AM: Where was it to?
JG: Hmmn?
AM: Where did it go to?
JG: Stettin.
AM: Right. Right.
JG: That’s the, that’s the town, isn’t it?
AM: Yes.
JG: That’s it.
AM: So how did you feel when you —
JG: In Germany, but knowing, leaving and [pause] you’re optimistic, you know. It was my last one and I went to a few but all in all it I enjoyed the whole of the Air Force. I really did enjoy my time there.
AM: After you, after you finished flying at the end of 1944.
JG: Yeah.
AM: What did you do between then and the end of the war?
JG: I got the air traffic control at Wigan.
AM: Right.
JG: I finished up there, and I could get home in, in minutes.
AM: Right.
JG: Yeah.
AM: So how did you feel when the war was finally over?
JG: Well, what I was feeling about that for some time I was at Prestwick. I think I said earlier that I thought Prestwick had a future. And the reason at the time was that there was no RAF at Glasgow, and we thought it was all be taken to, to Prestwick. And then I, I realised early on that Prestwick would never take off again, and I never changed my mind about it.
AM: Jimmy, is there anything about your, your time in the air as a Lancaster air gunner that you’d like to tell me that I haven’t asked you, or you’d like to share with me?
JG: That I haven’t what?
AM: Is there anything we haven’t talked about you’d like to add?
JG: Let me think now, [pause] no, put it this way. When, when I went on the aircrew side of things that was my life. It was at, give you an idea. It’s been on TV an awful lot. Sorry I’ll get the name. Group captain, and so on. What the hell, Sir John, wait a minute.
AM: Just pick that up.
JG: I was at Mailly, [unclear] he got the VC. Then later on I found out there were two or three of them got the VC. I’ve got one gripe about this one here, is that I, all, all the crew, all the crew were decorated to DFM, and all that [unclear] I couldn’t find out for you coming, but they were all out showing the medal, you see. And, why the dam, I thought it was disgusting because they all got medals, I doubt that [unclear] my last, I’ll tell you that was the worst one. Mailly le Camp. We didn’t all get medals for that, yeah. But you see the Dambusters, there was a film made, so it was a different atmosphere to the country about that. And I thought it was totally unfair that there were medals and medals, and we didn’t get medals. That didn’t happen at other places. That was my one gripe at the time about that. The other thing about it is that, I wasn’t flying that day but I knew it was on. I think there were about twenty of us hanging about that day. They said it, we all said it, the damage they did to the dams would last about three weeks yeah, yeah. But they started the film to give you this, to get the bomb to bounce and bounce and that all, and do it again. But in the actual bombing the Germans repaired it in three weeks. Yeah. I think the four of them got VCs. That’s, the Germans were very clever. And that’s what we said right away. That they would repair that in no time, and did.
AM: Any other stories you’d like to, you’d like to add or —
[pause]
AM: Any other stories you’d like to add?
JG: Any other stories?
AM: Right.
JG: I’m trying to think now.
Other: I think one of the things which I think is quite funny is that all these years after the war, it must be now about ten years ago my late husband engineered a meeting between my father and a German night fighter. Do you remember meeting Werner in Spain?
JG: That’s right.
Other: And after the initial discomfort of the meeting they settled down to chat.
JG: Ah ha. I took him in there. Ok we’re, he was a German night fighter, and the War finished, and they were having a hotel built.
Other: In Spain.
JG: Aye. And then, I got word from David that he knew him so I’ll get an introduction to him, and right away I go, I had to go and have dinner with him and his crew. Yeah. I think that’s the beauty about aircrew everywhere, that there’s a kind of feeling, that he’s a pal.
Other: Fencing, and then you were starting to say where were you? Where were you? Were you there? Were you there?
AM: Do you think you ever shared the same piece of sky?
JG: Aye. Oh aye.
AM: Yes. They did.
JG: Aye, yeah. Now, I, I was on that night, yeah [unclear] now as I say there was a feeling that there was no bad feeling between us. That’s all I’ll say. Come and have a meal. That’s the subtle difference. We both took it that way.
Other: Then his own history was quite interesting, because he said he was shot down three times in the war and he said the first twice, he was unlucky because he was shot down over the Channel and the Germans picked him back up, put him in a plane, and sent him off. And it was only the third time that he was picked up by the allies and shipped off to Canada.
AM: I didn’t ask you do you think you ever shot down a German fighter.
JG: Did I think what?
AM: Did you think you ever shot down a German fighter?
JG: Oh aye.
AM: Tell me about that then.
JG: No, I shot. I shot down, I shot two down.
AM: Right.
JG: I shot one down, this is quite a good one. It was Russia. There was a bit of a problem with the, their Navy all sitting waiting to get out, they couldn’t get out, before the Germans what do you call the water, you know where the coastline goes like that, in and out, [pause] the name for it, German name for it, no not a German name. A Norwegian name. Fjord, yeah, Fjord, yeah. So, the Russians went in there, but they want out, and the Germans come along and they plant their, their Navy in there, the big one. And Russia asked us is there was anything we could do to shift him, and then we took that one on.
AM: Was this the Tirpitz?
JG: Eh?
AM: Was this the Tirpitz?
JG: Well, that leaf, that level. Yes. You’ve got it there have you? It will be in there, I think.
AM: I’ll just —
JG: The German [unclear] done away with them so they asked us to help out and they, what we did was [unclear] when the Russians asked us we’ll help. I can’t remember, about three of us hundred went. We took mines with us, and there was only two can fit the, the bay and we were told that you don’t drop them in, you have to fly them in at, because they might explode if you drop them so, this is the. For me, I always admired them, how good a fliers they were going there, they can fly away down there, [unclear] and they did it. Now, to me they were hard to beat. Oh aye, and anyway we, we did that, and we dropped our mines in there, so you can imagine it was almost a thousand mines that the Germans have got to clear to get out, and so we left them and came back home, and I went down through Poland and to France and in France I said to Charlie, Charlie, hold it. We’ve got company, and a 109 it was. So I shot it down, fatally. The place where we are. That was in France.
AM: Right.
JG: From Russia. That was it. To try and get the Russians out of the water.
AM: Was that the first time you’d shot another aircraft down?
JG: No. No. No. No. That was the first one. The other one, one of them things. I know it sounds daft now. Turn it off.
AM: Right.
JG: But I couldn’t claim it. You know there’s a drill they have, if you, if you shoot an aircraft down when you come back from an operation you get interrogated and if you say you shot an aircraft down they will not log it because if the three hundred have left to go there, so three hundred have got to come back. So, and you say that you shot down one there, and then, so, all he’d done is put down the time and the place. And he gets confirmation from other ones that all the ones that are flying back that cannot see them. So, they’ve all been trained, if you see a light, or if you see anything record it. So maybe about twenty of them saw the lights of mine, and I shot him down. That’s how it was done. That’s why at Mailly le Camp, I did one there, but the point was that, what was going on at Mailly. You know, you say what the hell can I do, the aircraft coming. Aircraft. I mean, it’s all happening, between out here and here, it’s all happened. So, but nobody has got time to write that they saw that at the time. Yeah.
AM: Jimmy, Warrant Officer Graham, Legion D’honneur. Thank you very much.
JG: I’m pleased to meet you.
AM: And you. I’m honoured to meet you. No, please.
[recording paused]
Other: I rather thought that would be the case.
AM: Jimmy, you didn’t tell me you had a Distinguished Flying Medal. Perhaps you’d like to tell me why you’ve got a distinguished, why you’ve got a DFM.
JG: Well, it wasn’t because I’d, I’d shot down two. Yeah.
AM: There you are. Sit down.
JG: I shot down two. Yeah.
AM: And who awarded your medal?
JG: What, what they did they stopped royalty doing it because they felt they were doing too much of there, and that and that sort of thing, and it was well one of the big chief. What do you call them?
AM: An air marshall.
JG: Air marshall’s, aye.
AM: And where was that done in?
JG: That was done in, the Doncaster one.
AM: Elsham Wolds.
JG: Elsham Wolds.
AM: Right.
JG: Was that, and they came to do that, before they were, obviously their job was taken them everywhere.
AM: You must have been very, very proud.
JG: Oh, I was. When I came in [unclear] yeah.
AM: Superb.
JG: I felt good. That’s another of me there. Wireless operator, up, mid-upper gunner, who was that? Anyway, there was me, there’s me and Mick, he, he was the flight engineer, and the bomb aimer[unclear], and I used to pull his leg because —
AM: Jimmy, tell me about you’ve just showed a photograph. Tell me what the bomb aimer did.
JG: The bomb aimer did next to nothing. He doesn’t even help to put a bomb onto the plane, and the rear gunner on our way to the target is lying doing nothing. And then we were getting other players, he’s on our run now to where he was going to drop his bombs. ‘Left. Left. Left. Left. Left. Left. Bombs away.’ And then he lies down, and did nothing. He lies down until he gets home. Aye.
AM: Well, I’ll say this again. Jimmy Graham, Distinguished Flying Medal, Legion D’honneur, thank you. That was brilliant.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jimmy Graham
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Alastair Montgomery
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AGrahamJ170927, PGrahamJ1701
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:00:17 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Jimmy Graham was employed in a Reserved Occupation but volunteered with the RAF as potential aircrew. He began his training in Northern Ireland and was eventually qualified as an air gunner. He was posted to RAF Elsham Wolds. He took part in the operation to Mailly le Camp which he considered to be the worst raid of the war. After the war he met a former German night fighter and became good friends. After his tour of operations, he was posted to flying control.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Mailly-le-Camp
Germany--Berlin
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
103 Squadron
576 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
Lancaster
RAF Elsham Wolds
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1273/17685/LDrayFJ3033110v1.2.pdf
f9585e997b0beafe6d6e0d1204c9afd3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dray, F J
Description
An account of the resource
One item. F J Dray's log book. He flew a tour of operations as an air gunner with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Robert Dray and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Dray, FJ
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
F Dray’s flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers for F Dray, air gunner, covering the period from 23 March 1944 to 22 April 1945. Detailing his flying training and operations flown. He was stationed at RAF Bishops Court, RAF Hixon, RAF Ingham, RAF Sandtoft, RAF Hemswell and RAF Fiskerton. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington, Halifax and Lancaster. He flew a total of 30 operations with 576 squadron. Targets were, Merseburg, Essen, Ludwigshafen, Koblenz, Gelsenkirchen, Nuremberg, Royan, Munich, Duisburg, Stuttgart, Weisbaden, Politz, Dresden, Dortmund, Pforzheim, Kassel, Misburg, Hildesheim, Paderborn, Hamburg, Lutzkendorf, Keil, Plauen, Heligoland and Bremen. <span>His pilot on operations was</span><span> </span>Pilot Officer Carter.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LDrayFJ3033110v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
France--Royan
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover Region
Germany--Helgoland
Germany--Hildesheim
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Koblenz
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Paderborn
Germany--Pforzheim
Germany--Plauen
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wiesbaden
Northern Ireland--Down (County)
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-22
1944-12-29
1944-12-30
1945-01-02
1945-01-03
1945-01-04
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-22
1945-01-28
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-02-22
1945-02-23
1945-02-24
1945-03-08
1945-03-09
1945-03-11
1945-03-12
1945-03-15
1945-03-16
1945-03-17
1945-03-22
1945-03-24
1945-03-27
1945-03-31
1945-04-04
1945-04-05
1945-04-09
1945-04-10
1945-04-11
1945-04-18
1945-04-22
1667 HCU
30 OTU
576 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
bombing of Helgoland (18 April 1945)
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bishops Court
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Hemswell
RAF Hixon
RAF Ingham
RAF Sandtoft
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1224/16230/LBrownJ2205595v1.1.pdf
68f04a9ac0e97a321619e6e864c46ad3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Brown, Jeff
Jeffrey Brown
J Brown
Description
An account of the resource
35 items. One oral history interview with Flying Officer Jeff Brown (b. 1925, 2205595, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and photographs including 16 pictures of B-29s. He flew operations as a Flight Sergeant air gunner with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton towards the end of the war and took part in Operation Manna.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jeff Brown and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-01-18
2017-01-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Brown, J-3
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jeff Brown's flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers for Jeff Brown, air gunner, covering the period from 18 August 1944 to 31 December 1951. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying. He was stationed at RAF Dalcross, RAF Oakley, RAF Westcott, RAF Bottesford, RAF Fiskerton, RAF Wellesbourne Mountford, RAF Marham and RAF Coningsby. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Martinet, Wellington, Lancaster, B-29, Oxford and Tiger Moth. He flew 5 Operation Manna sorties to Rotterdam and Hague, and one Operation Exodus to Brussels with 576 Squadron. His pilot on operations was Flight Sergeant Fleming. Post war flying was with 149 Squadron.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBrownJ2205595v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Great Britain
Netherlands
Belgium--Brussels
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Warwickshire
Netherlands--Hague
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Scotland--Inverness
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1945-05-01
1945-05-02
1945-05-03
1945-05-05
1945-05-08
1945-05-26
1945-06-19
11 OTU
149 Squadron
1668 HCU
576 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
B-29
Cook’s tour
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Martinet
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Bottesford
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bridlington
RAF Burn
RAF Coningsby
RAF Dalcross
RAF Driffield
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Hartford Bridge
RAF Marham
RAF Oakley
RAF Sturgate
RAF Wellesbourne Mountford
RAF Westcott
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1224/15904/MBrownJ2205595-170131-010002.2.jpg
318a6e98733d583744debdf6166daa3d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Brown, Jeff
Jeffrey Brown
J Brown
Description
An account of the resource
35 items. One oral history interview with Flying Officer Jeff Brown (b. 1925, 2205595, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and photographs including 16 pictures of B-29s. He flew operations as a Flight Sergeant air gunner with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton towards the end of the war and took part in Operation Manna.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jeff Brown and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-01-18
2017-01-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Brown, J-3
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
May 8th 1945
The war had ended that day; everyone was in a happy mood. We were on the battle order. It was Rotterdam again. We went out to the aircraft. The CO drove around, wishing everyone good luck. The station photographer suddenly came and took pictures of the air and ground crews together in front of the aircraft. We never had that before. Later we all got free prints. Then it was time to go. We taxied out, little realising that within a few minutes we would witness a crash. We took off and as we climbed up, I noticed that the Lancaster behind us was starting his take off run. As he increased speed, a swing showed. The swing became violent. From my mid upper turret I had a grandstand view as he swung off the runway to port. He tore up the FIDO – piping which was mounted on short steel legs above the ground. Lengths of steel piping flew in all directions. The Lancaster ripped up the grass and earth as the undercarriage collapsed. The plane slowed round in a cloud of dust and debris. Its back broke near the mid upper turret. An ambulance and fire tender raced out to it. Luckily there was no fire. That was the end of Lancaster NN806.
Unfortunately that was one load of food which did not get to Holland that day. the next aircraft began its take off, passing the sad pile of wreckage that moments before had been an operational bomber. Later we heard that the pilot, having the V E day mood on him, had allowed his flight engineer to attempt the take off and that he had lost control of the aircraft. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured.
Jeff Brown
[photograph]
576 Squadron, Fiskerton, Lincs. V.E. Day 8th May, 1945. Jeff Brown is second from the left – standing
22
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
VE Day Lancaster crash
Description
An account of the resource
Account of Jeff Brown witnessing Lancaster NN806 crash on take-off on VE Day. Includes a photograph of 13 air and ground crew of 576 Squadron, under their aircraft, including Jeff Brown.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jeff Brown
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-05-08
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Type-written report and photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MBrownJ2205595-170131-010002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-05-08
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
576 Squadron
crash
FIDO
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Fiskerton
take-off crash
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1224/15903/MBrownJ2205595-170131-010001.2.jpg
8241f92dbb98052b9061f1c59bf65ab1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Brown, Jeff
Jeffrey Brown
J Brown
Description
An account of the resource
35 items. One oral history interview with Flying Officer Jeff Brown (b. 1925, 2205595, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and photographs including 16 pictures of B-29s. He flew operations as a Flight Sergeant air gunner with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton towards the end of the war and took part in Operation Manna.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jeff Brown and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-01-18
2017-01-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Brown, J-3
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Operation Manna
1944 September
Railways in Western Holland go on strike. German Reichkommissar, Seyss-Inquart, denies the Dutch the use of transportation for food supplies.
October
Dutch Government in exile (London) warns allies of famine in occupied Holland. Electricity and gas supplies terminated.
November
First famine casualties in cities.
December
Bread ration down to 1000 grams per week
1945 January
Severe winter weather Queen Wilhelmina writes to King George and President Roosevelt about the famine in Holland. Sugar beets distributed for human consumption. Soup kitchens in Amsterdam use tulip bulbs for human consumption. Daily ration of soup, half a litre. Two Swedish ships allowed to bring flour and margarine.
February
Wholesale starvation. Funerals in big cities impossible due to lack of coffins. Dutch government requests allied offensive to stop further starvation. Eisenhower explains the impossibility of an offensive.
March
Some supplies arrive from Portugal.
April
Soup kitchens can only supply food every other day.
Agreement signed for air dropping of food supplies by British and American planes. Bread ration down to 400 grams per week.
29th April
Operation ‘Manna’ (British) commences.
May 1st
Operation ‘Chowhound’ (American) commences.
May 8th
V.E. day. Final food drops. Thousands of Dutch people saved from starvation.
May 9th
Seyss-Inquart arrested – later tried as a war criminal and hung.
The allied air forces flew over 5000 sorties and dropped nearly 12,000 tons of food in ten days of operations.
At this time I was a young lad of nineteen, an air gunner on No. 576 Squadron. From the first to the eighth of May, I flew on five Manna operations, four to Rotterdam and one to Valkenburg.
Jeff Brown
[photograph]
Jeff Brown, September 1944
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
An account of Operation Manna
Description
An account of the resource
An account of events leading up to, and during Operation Manna, plus personal involvement. Page contains head and shoulders photograph of Jeff Brown, in uniform, showing an air gunners brevet and sergeants stripes.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jeff Brown
Format
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One type-written sheet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
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Text. Personal research
Text. Memoir
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MBrownJ2205595-170131-010001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Netherlands
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09
1945-04
1945-05
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-09
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
576 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1224/15855/MBrownJ2205595-170131-07.1.jpg
b90ad903541d18a2eb35d2f9b5ffe5d7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Brown, Jeff
Jeffrey Brown
J Brown
Description
An account of the resource
35 items. One oral history interview with Flying Officer Jeff Brown (b. 1925, 2205595, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and photographs including 16 pictures of B-29s. He flew operations as a Flight Sergeant air gunner with 576 Squadron from RAF Fiskerton towards the end of the war and took part in Operation Manna.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jeff Brown and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-01-18
2017-01-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Brown, J-3
Access Rights
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
NO. 576 SQUADRON RAF STATION FISKERTON
ORDER OF BATTLE NO.290
[underlined] PILOT [/underlined] [underlined] F/E [/underlined] [underlined] B/A [/underlined] [underlined] NAV [/underlined] [underlined] W.O.P. [/underlined] [underlined] M.U.G. [/underlined] [underlined] R.G. [/underlined]
F/L O’NEILL P/O DURRAN F/O HAAKSTAD SGT OGILVIE F/S SMITH P/O GEORGE F/S RANCH UK
F/L McCURDY SGT CHRISHOLME F/O DRISCOL F/O STEVENS W/O LITTLE SGT NAZARKO F/S PARKER
F/O HARVEY SGT WYNNE F/O ISHERWOOD F/S PARKER SGT GREEN SGT WISE SGT HOLIDAY
F/O CROFTS SGT FRANK F/S MUSGROVE F/S TYSHING F/S DALE F/O VESPERMAN F/S COX
F/O BURNELL SGT GROUT F/S PARFITT SGT WATSON F/S MUMFORD F/S LOBSINGER SGT WITT
P/O DREW SGT BOOTH F/S STONE SGT TURTON F/S GUTHRIE SGT COUSINS SGT RIELLY
F/O SEDGWICK SGT STURT P/O COMISKY P/O ADAMS SGT BARNARD SGT DAYMAN SGT LATH
F/O SIMPSON SGT ELLIS SGT HURFORD F/O MELOCHE SGT RIDLEY SGT RAFEY SGT PERFECT
F/L HALNAN F/S BLAIR P/O SMITH P/O LAMPRELL F/S LAIT W/O HISCOCKS SGT GRAY
F/O SINCLAIR SGT SRIGGINS SGT GRAHAM F/O STEPHENS F/S GROSSGING SGT BROWNING F/O PEACH
F/O ROBERTS F/S PEDDINGTON F/S ROZARIO SGT SMALE SGT BRIGGS SGT DAVIES SGT BENSON
F/O TICHENER SGT FAULKNER SGT WATSON SGT KESTERTON SGT ELKINGTON SGT JONES SGT SOMERVILLE
F/O BURY SGT BARTON F/S MATS F/S WEIGHTMAN SGT SPALDING SGT BEACHER SGT PEVELL
F/O HOOD F/S LEA SGT ASHFORD SGT TAYLOR SGT LISK SGT HARROW SGT CULSHAW
F/S TILE SGT ROBINSON SGT HOWELLS SGT VAUGHAN SGT CURRIE SGT WRAGG SGT VICARY
F/O HINDERKS SGT HALISMITH F/O McCARTHY F/S WOODLIFFE SGT WHITE SGT HUDSON SGT CURRIE
F/O FRY F/S PARKINS F/S WARMSLEY F/O PROCTOR [blank] SGT YOUNGER SGT WATKINS
F/O HURLEY SGT CLARKE SGT KINNEAR SGT COUSINS SGT LENCH SGT BAKER SGT GISBIE
P/O HARDIE SGT LOCKETT F/L FISHER SGT BENTON SGT WANNACOTT SGT ROBERTSON P/O BOWERS
W/O GARRAD F/S DRESSER SGT WINTERS F/S WILSON SGT KNIGHT SGT McPHERSON SGT RIVERS
F/S FLEMMING F/S NEWBOLD SGT FIELD SGT JUDD SGT WISEMAN SGT LOCKTON SGT BROWN
W/O CARTER SGT CHARMAN SGT PRATT F/S ROBERTS SGT ROWAN SGT COOK SGT INKPIN
F/L WORSDELL SGT DIXON F/L LAKE F/O MERCHANT SGT MILLARD SGT BARNES SGT DAVISON
F/L FISHER SGT SUGDEN SGT HALSTEAD SGT DEVERSON F/O WHITE SGT HARKETT SGT COLLINS
F/O ATKINS SGT THOMAS SGT POSKIN F/S DAWSON F/S PADLEY SGT HEOG SGT HICKMAN
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
576 Squadron Order of Battle No.290
Description
An account of the resource
List detailing 25 aircrews, headed, 'No.576 Squadron RAF Station Fiskerton, Order of Battle NO.290'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One typewritten sheet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MBrownJ2205595-170131-07
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
576 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bomb aimer
flight engineer
navigator
pilot
RAF Fiskerton
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1138/11694/AStaffordF180705.2.mp3
a24006c6be1c463a77708a715d03dc1e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stafford, Frank
F Stafford
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Frank Stafford (1924 - 2019, 1591661 Royal Air Force).
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Frank Stafford and Tony Ward and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Stafford, F
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PS: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Patricia Selby and the interview is Frank Stafford. The interview is taking place at Mr Stafford’s home on the 5th of July at 11 am. Mr Stafford what’s your date of birth?
FS: 10th of June 1924.
PS: And where were you born?
FS: In Creswell, Derbyshire.
PS: And can you remember a lot about your childhood? Did you live in a village? Did you live in a town?
FS: Yeah.
PS: You lived in a village.
FS: I lived in a small mining village. Yeah.
PS: So what sort of things did you get up to?
FS: Oh dear.
PS: You went, did you go to school in the same village?
FS: Yes. It’s the village school. Everybody went to the one school. Boys and girls.
PS: Did you stay in the same village for your high school?
FS: Yes.
PS: What age were you when you left school?
FS: Sixteen. Fifteen. Sixteen, I think.
PS: Were they enjoyable times at school?
FS: Yes. It certainly opened my eyes to a different world at Grammar School.
PS: You had the Grammar. Did you have to travel far to the Grammar School?
FS: Yes. About ten miles away. We had a special bus took us there.
PS: When you left the Grammar School did you go straight to work?
FS: Yes. My parents were very poor. So going to work I did a repayment for all they’d done for me.
PS: What sort of work did you do?
FS: Well, I was in the Inland Revenue.
PS: Was the Inland Revenue office quite a way away from where you lived or —
FS: That was in Doncaster. About three miles away.
PS: And how did you travel there each day?
FS: On a bicycle. We walked or used a bicycle in those days.
PS: Did you enjoy that work?
FS: Yes. Very good.
PS: What did it entail?
FS: Inland revenue work? Income tax. Purchase tax. All just work.
PS: How many years did you do that for?
FS: Well, when I was eighteen I volunteered for the RAF. When I was eighteen. And there was quite a queue apparently waiting. And then I waited about I don’t know nearly twelve months before I was called up.
PS: Right. And what did you do when you were first called up?
FS: I went to London and did all the training. Physical training. Be prepared to train as a pilot or whatever.
PS: Did they send you to a special place for extra training to be a pilot or whatever?
FS: Yes. Yes. We were about half way through the course when somebody came in. An officer came in and said, ‘It looks like the war’s going to be over before you’re fully trained. So,’ he said, ‘All the training for pilots —’ and what not, ‘Is cancelled. And we’re looking at, all we want is volunteers for air gunner.’ Air gunners. ‘So you can either enlist, re-enlist for an air gunner or go on the ground crew.’ And all the class wanted to stay in aircrew. So we retrained as air gunners.
PS: Where did you do that training?
FS: All over the place.
PS: You can’t remember anywhere specific?
FS: Well, there was a lot of places we went to. I finished at Morpeth in Northumberland when I was finally given my air gunner’s badge and what not.
PS: Did you have a choice about which gun you were going to be put on?
FS: No. No choice at all. I was just allocated rear gunner and that was it.
PS: How long did the training take? Can you remember?
FS: Yeah. I finished training December.
PS: And when did you start it?
FS: Just after May, I suppose.
PS: Quite a long stint really.
FS: It was. It was quite thorough.
PS: Yeah. What did you think about it? Did you know you were going to be a rear gunner at that time or at the end of your training?
FS: No. I told you. The officer came in the class. The training for pilot, navigator —
PS: Yes. But —
FS: Or bomb aimer.
PS: But you became a rear gunner from what I understand from your daughter.
FS: Yeah.
PS: When did you know you were going to be a rear gunner out of the other gunners?
FS: When we had the crew. When we picked the crew. They said, ‘You’re a rear gunner. You’re a mid-upper gunner,’ and what not.
PS: Right. So you were then sent off to a squadron. Or whatever.
FS: Yeah. Then we started training as a crew.
PS: Oh right. So where was that? Can you remember?
FS: Several places. Not just one place. I finished up at Waddington anyway. Training a lot from there.
PS: Can you remember what squadron you were in?
FS: Hang on a sec.
[pause – pages turning]
FS: 576 squadron. That’s at Fiskerton. I went to several places, I know.
PS: Yeah. Were they all English crew?
FS: Yeah.
[pause]
PS: Is that your logbook?
FS: Hmmn. 61 Squadron, Waddington. That’s where I ended up.
PS: So you changed squadrons. You sort of moved about a bit.
FS: Yes.
PS: Was that difficult when you got to know a group of people and then they shipped you along to another plane?
FS: Well, we always flew as a crew.
PS: Yes. Did the crews move or did they —
FS: No. We were training most of the time in Lancasters.
PS: Yes.
[pause]
FS: Went to different places. Different.
[pause]
FS: Yeah.
PS: So what happened when you finished your training? They sent you on.
FS: Went to Bomber Command.
PS: Yes.
FS: And then we [pause] They gave us about three days leave. And when we went back we were operational then. Given an operation to bomb Germany. And then peace was declared.
PS: So did you actually get to go to bomb Germany?
FS: No.
PS: You didn’t.
FS: No. We were all ready to go.
PS: Yeah.
FS: And it was cancelled. All.
PS: The war came to an end.
FS: Yeah.
PS: You were very lucky, weren’t you?
FS: Yeah. I didn’t realised how lucky I was really.
PS: No.
FS: I never thought about anything else but flying.
PS: No. You trained in the back of an aircraft.
FS: Yeah.
PS: How did that feel?
FS: I got used to it. Didn’t mind at all.
PS: I’ve seen how you got in and out and what chances were if you had to get out quickly. They weren’t easy. Did you know that?
FS: There weren’t. Yes. We knew all about that. Yes. But never, never even thought about it really. I was twenty years old. Twenty, twenty one.
PS: Yeah.
FS: Just never thought about it.
PS: So you were never in the position of losing crew. Losing part of your squadron or anything like that.
FS: No. We had a good crew. We all liked each other and got on very well together. And all being young we couldn’t see any danger at all.
PS: Do you think you would have seen danger if you’d actually gone on a run?
FS: Oh yeah. They were, that’s the first thing they did was to shoot and kill the rear gunner. We knew that. Realised that. But you don’t think about it. Well, we didn’t anyway.
PS: Yes. I can see what you mean. You were young. But it was a very young crew wasn’t it?
FS: Very young. Yeah. Yeah. It’s all wrong now. Looking back it’s all wrong. I mean [pause] I saw the, I was in London when the Doodlebugs were coming over and fighting in the air and it was wasn’t very good. But again, you don’t, it seems up there out of the way. Didn’t seem to affect you very much. But of course it did.
PS: So you don’t think it had any, well obviously it did leave you some lasting effects but nothing too nasty really. Do you think? Or do you think it did?
FS: No. No.
PS: So the war came to an end. Did they just demob you then or —
FS: No. We carried on. We converted to Lincolns. Training again in that, and then after a while I broke my wrist. So that was the end of me flying. So I ended up in Pay Corps. And finally got discharged.
PS: So there were some really nasty damage to your wrist.
FS: Yeah. It was in plaster. So that was it.
PS: Yeah. Interesting.
FS: Very condensed.
PS: Yes. But do you keep up, did you keep up with any of your crew afterwards?
FS: No.
PS: No.
FS: No. I think I was the first to be demobbed I think. The crew stayed together.
PS: Did they continue flying after you’d gone into the Pay Corps for any length of time?
FS: Yes. As I say they converted to Lincolns. And they trained in them.
PS: And what did they do after they’d trained in those?
FS: I don’t know.
PS: Do you know? [laughs]
FS: I’ve no idea. I suppose they carried on or got discharged or demobbed, I suppose.
PS: So what did you do after you were demobbed?
FS: I came back to the Civil Service. Inland Revenue.
PS: Did you go back to where you were working before?
FS: Yeah.
PS: Or where did you go?
FS: Yeah. In Doncaster. Yeah.
PS: And you did that all the rest of your working life?
FS: No. The Air Force made me very restless. And then I transferred to Customs and Excise.
PS: Oh right.
FS: And I stayed in Custom and Excise until I retired.
PS: I should think Customs and Excise was more exciting. More interesting.
FS: I suppose so. Yeah. But I was very restless. I couldn’t settle down.
PS: I think that’s understandable. So you moved about from Doncaster did you?
FS: I moved a lot. Yeah. I moved all over the country.
PS: Nice.
FS: Sheffield. London. Harwich. Kings Lynn. Letchworth. Northampton and —
PS: You did get around.
FS: Yes. You see, I was very restless.
PS: Did you settle down eventually or you stayed restless?
FS: I suppose I settled down eventually. Yeah. [pause] Yeah.
PS: So now looking back what sort of effect do you think being in the RAF made to you? As it obviously made your restless but —
FS: Well, I saw a bit of the world anyway. Italy. Malta. And I flew over Germany. We took some VIPs over Germany to show them the damage that had been done by all the bombing. It was terrible.
PS: Yeah.
FS: It was shocking.
PS: That was, was that before, still while you were in the RAF?
FS: That’s when I was in the RAF then.
PS: Yeah.
FS: We just used it as a, to show different people what it was like in Germany.
PS: Yeah.
FS: And it was terrible.
PS: Did you have to do many of those trips?
FS: No. Not many. But we did a few. We brought back some Army people. Bring them back to England.
PS: So, what did you think about it at the time or immediately afterwards?
FS: I didn’t think about it at all.
PS: It was, when did you start thinking about it?
FS: When did I start thinking about it? [pause] I don’t think ever. I just accepted it.
PS: Yeah. It’s just looking back now.
FS: Yeah.
PS: Being asked to recall it it’s —
FS: It’s terrible. Yeah. I’m against all wars. They’re all terrible.
PS: Yep. When you were in the RAF what sort of things did you do to relax when you weren’t training or in flight?
FS: Sleep. Used to fly at any time. Day or night. You couldn’t get enough sleep. [pause] But we were well looked after I must say. There was always a meal when we came back from flying. A meal ready for us. There used to be a meal and then back to bed and wait for the next flying.
PS: These trips you did after. You know, when you were taking the people up to have a look. They were quite long were they? They were quite long trips were they not?
FS: Yes. I mean —
PS: So, so —
FS: Fly to Germany and around to Germany. Quite long trips. Yes.
PS: So you’d need something to eat when you came back.
FS: I forget.
PS: Did you take stuff with you to eat or was there stuff on the plane to eat?
FS: No. Never. No. Well, normally we used to fly about twelve thousand feet and go and have, we had oxygen masks on so we couldn’t.
PS: No.
FS: I told you. We didn’t eat.
[pause]
PS: Anything else you want to tell me?
FS: Hmmn?
PS: Anything else you want to tell me?
FS: Not really. It was a phase. I think I was very lucky. I didn’t realise how lucky I was. Perhaps was a little bit disappointed we didn’t go on a bombing raid but I’m glad we didn’t. So it was mostly training all the time. After we trained on Lancasters. Then we trained on Lincolns. And then I just came out.
PS: When you took these VIPs to have a look at Germany after things were finished what you, were you, you weren’t still sitting on a gun were you? Or were you?
FS: Oh yeah.
PS: You were.
FS: We always flew with a full crew. We had to.
PS: Oh, I see.
FS: So if if the pilot was learning something it would be a full crew. Same with the navigator, the wireless operator. Full crew. Always.
PS: So you did get a sort of sense of what it was like. I mean, no one was firing at you I know but being in the back like that.
FS: I saw what was going on. Yeah.
PS: Yes.
FS: Yeah.
PS: Yes.
FS: I had a good view. So that’s about it I reckon.
PS: Well, you’ve done very well. Thank you very much indeed. I’m quite happy to sit here if you want to try and think of anything else. But that is fine as far as I’m concerned.
FS: No.
PS: Ok.
FS: As I say it’s a long time ago.
PS: Yeah.
FS: A different world. I’m anti-war and I can’t [pause] I don’t understand people who wanted to fight and threaten and whatnot. I just don’t understand it.
PS: No.
FS: Yeah.
PS: Well, thank you very much indeed. I’m very grateful for letting me come. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frank Stafford
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Patricia Selby
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AStaffordF180705
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:29:19 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Stafford grew up in a small mining village in Creswell, Derbyshire. After leaving school at 16, he went to work for the Inland Revenue, from here at the age of 18, he volunteered for the Royal Air Force. He was sent to London to begin physical training and then onto various other places for further training to be part of a Lancaster air crew. Fortunately the training was cancelled as the war would be coming to an end. Frank could either volunteer as an air gunner or join the ground crew, or enlist. He remained with the air crew and finished his training in RAF Morpeth. He joined 576 Squadron, went onto join 61 Squadron, and eventually became operational. The first operation to Germany was cancelled with declaration of peace. Frank was transferred to train on the Lincoln. After breaking his wrist, he could no longer fly, and was discharged.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jennie Mitchell
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--London
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northumberland
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
576 Squadron
61 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Cook’s tour
Lancaster
Lincoln
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Morpeth
RAF Waddington
training
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Spencer, Fred
F Spencer
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Spencer, F
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Fred Spencer. He served as an airframe fitter with 102 Squadron.
In accordance with the conditions stipulated by the donor, these items are available only at the International Bomber Command Centre / University of Lincoln.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Fred Spencer. Two
Description
An account of the resource
Fred Spencer grew up in Bradford and was fourteen when war was declared. He worked at a department store in Bradford and served in the Home Guard while awaiting his call up papers. He thought he would be going into the Army but found he’d been called up for the RAF. He trained and was posted to 103 Squadron and 576 Squadron at Elsham Wold. The cold weather made an impression on him and he often found his bike frozen solid outside when he finished his meals. They got used to bringing extra tea to just throw on to the bikes to defrost.
In accordance with the conditions stipulated by the donor, this item is available only at the University of Lincoln.
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David Spencer
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2015-08-16
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Sound
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ASpencerF150816
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Pending review
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00:54:03 audio recording
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eng
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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DS: This is an interview with Fred Spencer and David Spencer. It’s the 16th of August 2015 and we are at Fred’s house in Askham Richard, York. So, if you’d like to tell me about your life, dad.
FS: Well, I’ll just start about school. Later school time. I was in Bradford when the war was declared and I was about fourteen. And previous to that we’d seen the German airship, the Hindenburg pass over the city. I don’t know whether that had any connections to the war but it was an unusual thing to get the German airship over the Channel. But anyway —
DS: And mum saw that as well didn’t you mum?
Other: Yes. Yeah.
FS: And then later we had a few bombs dropped in Bradford and there was one or two fires. Huge fires. My dad insisted that the family, we had a cellar but he thought that wasn’t good enough so there was a firm that was on war work and they had a tremendous shelter and dad, it was about two hundred and fifty yards away and dad wheeled us to this shelter many nights for quite a long time. Then the war did go on long enough and I got my papers to be called up for my medical and I, I stretched up to try and be tall enough for going in the Guards but I didn’t make it by a long way. And when I got my papers I was surprised it was RAF because I really wanted the Army and the papers told me to report to the Scottish town of Arbroath and I did. The idea is to give you, you were, you were supposed to get an eight week initial course, training anyway. That’ll do. And, but just to the end of it I got some sort of a bug and I had to go into the hospital in Arbroath. When I came out after a week I had to go right back to the start of my training again so instead of eight weeks I did sixteen weeks training. And then I was sent to Weeton, I think. RAF Weeton which is six miles from Blackpool and we were, we were given bikes and I could scoot around to Blackpool for the dancing in the tower and that sort of thing.
Other: You did your training there.
FS: Yeah. That was.
Other: Your training.
FS: That was the trade training. I was repairing a bullet holes, or two or three bullet holes in Mosquitoes and also and then I got sent to —
Other: Elsham?
DS: Sealand.
FS: Sealand. And at Sealand it was the hours in the hangar were working at the bench were tremendous and I wasn’t there long because I wasn’t doing that long because they had me on, on burying aircrew. It was 23 MU and evidently all killed airmen who couldn’t be sent home because there were overseas airmen, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders they couldn’t be sent home and they gave them a military funeral. We gave them a military funeral in a little cemetery by the railway lineside just out of Chester Station going towards Wales. And I did that quite a, quite a while. I thought I was pretty smart and reversing arms and all the things that go with ceremonial drill. I liked that.
DS: How did you become good at that?
FS: I always was interested in that. I knew a Guardsman very well and he lent me his, I shouldn’t say this, he lent me his rifle once or twice and I got a lot of practice in and of course I had Home Guard training. I joined the Home Guard a year before I should. I gave the wrong age for that. And we used to guard an airfield, sorry [pause] a railway goods yard and there was a big Irishman who’d spent a lifetime in India in the Army and he was as tough as old nails, called him Eddie Connor. And when we went on, it was pitch black when we went to guard the, when we went on guard up the railway lines and yard I used to go with Eddie because I thought if there was any trouble I’ll be right behind Eddie. So that passed and then I got my papers and went in the RAF. I think I’m doubling up on myself but the RAF started up in Scotland at Arbroath.
Other: You’ve done that.
FS: I’ve said that.
Other: Talk about the [pause]
DS: You didn’t talk about your accommodation in Arbroath.
FS: Yeah. There was an overspill of the mills that everybody was billeted in and me and a friend who became a friend we were put in with a Mrs Grimond in a flat in Arbroath and of course we got rather well treated compared to sleeping in the mill.
DS: He was a butcher, was he?
FS: Yes. He was. He was the town butcher.
Other: Still is.
FS: Probably still running their own shop there. The business in Arbroath.
Other: It’s still there.
FS: Grimond.
Other: It’s still there. We talked to somebody.
DS: They’re still, the family butcher is still there.
FS: The butcher is still in Arbroath. Yeah.
Other: It’s still there.
DS: Right.
FS: It’s probably a relative obviously.
DS: Yeah.
FS: It’s a passed down family, family business. Where are we now?
DS: Well, that, so you were in the Maintenance Unit in Sealand.
FS: 23 MU.
DS: And because —
FS: And I did it, from there I used to go and do the military funerals.
Other: You mentioned —
FS: Yeah, I’ve just mentioned that.
DS: The four flights. It was broken up into four flights.
FS: Ah that was when, that was when you were first sent to Arbroath to do your training. You were brought, you were, there a flight was about eighty people. Eighty men. And the fourth flight was consisted of all people that had been Home Guard, Cadet Forces. Any Scouts. Anybody who was well accustomed to discipline, marching and of course I was part of that.
Other: You were particularly moved by the —
FS: Oh yeah. I mean —
Other: The loss of them.
FS: Yeah.
Other: Being, overseas.
FS: Yeah. Well imagine the only people we buried were the lads who’d come and died for us from Canada, Australia and New Zealand and of course it’s a very sad thing that their bodies could not be sent back during the wartime and we buried them here and that was, that has always stuck in my mind as being a very sad thing that they did come and couldn’t be ever reunited with their families again.
DS: So when you left Sealand where did you go then?
FS: Well, Sealand was Air Force and I got transferred to Fleet Air Arm was the object.
Other: No. Not yet. Not yet.
DS: Not yet. There was, there was something else wasn’t there?
Other: That was the last one. That’s the last one.
DS: You went from Sealand to Elsham.
Other: Elsham.
FS: Oh yeah. Elsham was RAF. Yes.
DS: So —
FS: And that was an actual bomber squadron. It’s still there and we still go. It’s still obvious it was an airfield.
Other: How many hangars?
FS: Three. One still remains.
Other: Three hangars.
FS: Yeah.
Other: And —
FS: And of course I used to —
DS: What squadrons?
FS: 103 and 576.
DS: Yeah.
FS: Lancaster squadrons. And of course, I used to go to the end of the runway. There was a little lane. It’s still there and I used to watch them go. They were only just, they only just got over the treetops in the lane and we knew of course where, where they were going to. But there you go.
DS: Did you do that every time?
FS: No.
DS: Or was it just occasionally?
FS: No. Just occasionally. So it would sometimes, it was very cold and you were glad to get in your Nissen hut and get the stove red hot. It was, it was a cold place was Elsham Wold.
Other: Where did you work?
FS: Oh yes. And because of that the bike, we cycled everywhere and left our bikes outside the cookhouse and when we came out of the cookhouse the bike wheels had frozen so we got used to bringing a mess tin of hot tea out and throwing it over the gear wheel so we could defrost it.
DS: So, what, what buildings were they? You’ve talked about three big hangars.
FS: Well —
DS: How was it all arranged?
FS: Well —
Other: Well, there were some where you had your little work bench in.
FS: Yeah. Well, attached to the hangars were Nissen huts where you had work equipment because [pause] but all the, all the ground crew that were in in little sites some distance from the main airfield and that was, that was where we were. I presume they were dispersed like the aircraft were. All the Lancasters were put out on dispersals so, and if you were on night patrol you had to go around those dispersals to see that there was, that the Lanc was still safe and sound. Of course, a lot, a lot were out on raids but the, it was a big, a big dark job walking around. The airfield patrol they used to call it.
DS: Did you often do that?
FS: No. It only came around to me a few times. I mean I was never at any depot all that long, you know. A few months or nine months, a year or around that and then you were moved somewhere else for some reason or other.
DS: So, what was your trade when you were at Elsham?
FS: I was air fitter air frames with a W for woodwork.
DS: Oh, and what did that involve?
FS: No, it hadn’t a W sorry. It was air fitter air frames with an A on your badge as opposed to E for the engineers who worked on the engines.
DS: Right. But what did your job involve? What sort of things?
FS: I have told this story many a time that, about the sergeant who moved a Lancaster when he shouldn’t have done and, and knocked the wing tip against the hangar side and he was put on a charge for moving the plane without —
Other: Single handed.
FS: Single handed and that night he stayed on all night and with the aid of winches and stands under the wings he replaced that wing tip and the plane was ready for flying the next day and his charge was removed by Squadron Leader Gardiner. So, he had a, he had a clean sheet after that heroic single-handed job on the wing tip.
DS: How did he put a Lancaster in to the hangar single handed? Was there a tow truck?
FS: Yeah.
DS: Yeah.
FS: Yeah. There was a trolley. There was a trolley that fits under the, somewhere or other and he hooks it to, there’s a tractor and they’re all moved by tractor.
DS: Right.
FS: But at that time besides the driver of the tractor you had to have someone at each wing tip and he didn’t.
DS: Right.
Other: What about the lunches when you got —
FS: The what?
Other: The syrup from your father. The lunches.
FS: No. That—
DS: So, you all ate together in the Mess.
FS: Yeah. Yeah. But, but you went yes you went. You queued up for the, at the servery and got more or less the same as everybody else and you went back to your table and if you were lucky like I was and my dad had sent me some, some Lyle’s Golden Syrup and you put a spoon full of that. And I offered it to my mate next door and he offered it down the table and the whole tin of soup, of Lyle’s Golden Syrup disappeared. By the time I got the tin back it was Lyle’s empty tin of syrup.
DS: And so was the good, do you have any memories of the food?
FS: It wasn’t regarded as being good but I think it was probably better than, but it was, it was a privilege to grumble about everything and I think it was probably over grumbled about. But there you are. I mean we had better rations then the civilians but on the other hand you know when it’s cooked in those huge —
DS: Cauldrons.
FS: Cauldrons. Yeah. Containers. Right.
DS: Yeah. And knives and forks?
FS: Yes. You carried your own knives and forks around as far as I remember and you washed them in, as you went out there was a big, a big bath. It was the size of a bath and it was supposed to be boiling water which run clean all the time. Well, it didn’t. It ran greasy and cold and your knives and forks were cleaned in that which wasn’t the best of things. But that’s what it was.
Other: There was a war on.
FS: There was a war on [laughs] Yeah. There used to be a saying didn’t they?
Other: Yes.
FS: Don’t you know there’s a war on. That excused everything.
DS: So did you live on the aerodrome?
FS: No.
DS: The airfield.
FS: It was the, for obvious reasons if the aerodrome was attacked you didn’t want all the, all the ground crew to be wiped out so these now what did they call them now were perhaps a mile or a mile and a half away from the actual airfield. And that’s when you cycled up to each day to do your job.
DS: So you had a bike.
FS: Yeah. Pushbike. You had a bike.
DS: Was it your bike or was it just something —
FS: No, it was a Service bike. It was signed out to you so you really were responsible for it. So I don’t know of anybody, anybody having been charged for a bike because if you lost, if they lost theirs they’d pinch somebody else’s and so it would go on.
DS: Ok. And what was the places like that you lived in?
FS: It was a Nissen hut with about —
DS: A Nissen hut.
FS: With about I would think about a dozen beds up each side and two great big iron stoves in the middle. One towards each end.
DS: And how long were you at Elsham do you think?
FS: I would think about nine months.
DS: Yeah.
FS: Yes, I did. I was. I looked it up, didn’t I? somebody at Elsham asked me that and I looked it up. I was about nine months.
DS: Ok. So you were doing joinery all the time.
FS: Yeah. More or less nearly all connected with timber. I didn’t do any metal work.
DS: And can you remember anything that you did particularly on a Lancaster?
FS: Well, I think I’ve said about the light on them.
Other: Yeah.
FS: Well, for some reason the, you can see it on this picture I’ve got of the Lancaster in front of me the rear lights were on each side of the turret on a bulkhead and we were told they had to be sunk in so the rear guns didn’t knock them off. And so we put an extra platform in to the last rib. No. Not a rib.
DS: Frame.
FS: Yeah. Anyway, and we mounted, we remounted.
DS: The bulkhead.
FS: Bulkhead. You know, we put a dummy platform just three or four, five or six inches down the plane of the [pause] Now I’ve got it all mixed up but anyway they were, they were sunk in. That’ll do.
DS: You did a lot of that.
FS: Quite a lot.
DS: Yeah.
FS: Quite a lot.
DS: Ok.
FS: So it was always, there was always new Lancs coming in to replace in that had been, that didn’t return from the raids. So I suppose those had to be done too.
Other: You even got the Americans in didn’t you?
FS: Hmmn?
Other: You got the Americans in with their —
FS: Yeah. Some Fortresses. We got the word around that there was a squadron of Fortresses coming and we all went out. I don’t know why we thought they were going to come in like bullets but they did. They came in faster than I’ve ever seen anything in my life one after the other nose to tail and we all went out to watch this. And then the aircrew came off the, and bomb aimer was carrying his sight in a bag and I believe this sight was supposed to be the you know the wonder thing that would that would win the war. But they didn’t leave it on the planes. They carried, they carried it away with them did the bomb aimer.
DS: So the RAF when they were flying they didn’t land in formation. They [unclear]
FS: Oh, these weren’t in formation. The Americans just came nose to tail. One, one, one like that but very fast. No, because coming back the Lancs would often be straddled.
DS: Yeah. Ok.
FS: But I didn’t used to often stay up to see them come back. Watched the go.
Other: Coming in on a wing and a prayer.
FS: Yeah.
Other: That’s what one of the pilots said.
DS: Yeah.
FS: It was just —
DS: I wanted to deal with that. What, so in terms of the everyday life of a squadron you had the flying crew and —
FS: Aircrew.
DS: The aircrew. Were you involved with them on a day to day basis?
FS: Yeah. You were often in the sort of the canteens you were stood next to one you know. Shoulder to shoulder waiting to be served. But they were all sergeants or above so in many cases they would have their own Mess.
DS: And then there was the ground crew that were devoted to an aircraft.
FS: Yes.
DS: Were you ever —
FS: No.
DS: Were you ever part of a ground crew?
FS: No. Each aircraft had engine, engine fitters and airframe and there was mainly the engines I would think because you couldn’t really repair the air frame outside. But the engines of course were, were messed about with, and tested and replaced if necessary actually on, outside where they landed.
DS: Right. So you tended to be based around the hangar.
FS: Yes.
DS: And your Nissen hut workshops.
FS: Yeah.
DS: And planes would be brought to the hangar for more substantial work or —
FS: Yeah. Well, yeah. There was all sorts of, there was all sorts of inspections had to be carried out. So many a hundred hours and all that and they came to the hangars for that.
DS: Good. And so what did you do in your spare time at Elsham?
FS: Well, not a lot. In summer the airfields were always in lovely countryside and in summer I’d walk for miles and I got you know in the countryside around and then of course there was the, there was one or two of the NAAFIs and they had a billiard table you see. A snooker table so you could spend your time, all the time thinking it’s only four days until the weekend, you know. You didn’t get away every weekend but you got away many weekends.
DS: Yeah. So you were given weekend leave.
FS: Yeah. You needed to go to the guardroom and get a pass. Say where you were going. I think so.
DS: Where did you go on weekend leaves?
FS: Well, weekend leave was no good to you unless you were, unless you’d relations or friends that lived within get-at-able distance to the airfield. We had, I had, when I was at Weeton which was six mile out of Blackpool I had some family friends that were in Blackpool and I could go and stay the night there. The Saturday night. If I had a pass of course. And then there was, there was the wonderful dance halls in Blackpool wasn’t there? The Tower and the Winter Gardens. Well, I think it was eight pence. Eight old pence for the Forces to use those ballrooms. I’m pretty sure it was eight pence. It could have been nine but I think it was eight.
DS: So how did you get from Sealand to Blackpool?
FS: Well, there would be buses. There would be buses. Oh, did you say from Sealand?
DS: Yeah, to Blackpool.
FS: No. No. Blackpool wasn’t Sealand, sorry. I misled you. Blackpool was Weeton.
DS: Right. Yeah.
FS: Now you got there. If there wasn’t the bus, if there wasn’t a bus then you could bike and we used to use the train from Kirkham but you’d to get to Kirkham and there again that was a bike job.
DS: Yeah. It was from Sealand you went to Liverpool wasn’t it?
FS: Yes. And came and came to Liverpool station from Sealand on, on through the Mersey Tunnel, about thirty of us on the back of the Queen Mary. The Queen Mary is a, I don’t know, fifty sixty foot long girder like trailer and it was used for transporting aircraft. You could get a fuselage and the two wings of an aircraft stood at the side of the fuselage. But there were empty ones that we occasionally got and about thirty chaps got on the girder work and clung on. We went under the Mersey Tunnel coming to Liverpool Station on the back of a Queen Mary. And I’ve talked to current present day RAF men and they all know what a Queen Mary is and probably there’s some similar ones used for transporting aircraft.
DS: Yeah. So, what got you into the RAFA and Elsham and things like that?
FS: It was just a pure accident and it was only about, I don’t know now. Was it about ten years ago? Something like that but we just heard two, we just heard some ladies talking didn’t we?
Other: Oh, about the —
FS: About the RAF and the —
Other: Elsham Wolds.
FS: And —
Other: The Elsham Wolds —
DS: Association.
FS: Yeah.
Other: Association.
FS: Yeah.
Other: Which he’d never been in anything like that in all the years.
FS: No. No. No. And then and then —
Other: Once the RAF had finished, the war finished. That was it for many many years.
FS: Oh yeah. We wouldn’t have joined the Christmas Club. That was, nobody wanted to be in anything at all after they’d done you know three, four, five, six years of their life. It’s a long time in, in the Services unless they were destined to be Servicemen all their life. You wanted to be out and home.
Other: But Elsham was really very good.
FS: Yeah. But, but I came to, I came to Elsham and we’ve been I hope stalwart members haven’t we? And we go twice a year. August and also in November for the Armistice and —
Other: And they have a museum.
FS: We have a wonderful museum there and by arrangement people can go to it. They’ll be the person to contact on the internet. Have I got the word right?
DS: Yeah.
FS: Good.
DS: Yeah.
FS: But it is a wonderful museum and it’s in, it’s in the book of the tour of museums in Lincolnshire. So it’s, it’s on the tourist trail.
DS: Yeah.
Other: And Elsham village have put the signs out.
FS: Yeah. That’s another thing. Yes.
Other: That’s interesting.
FS: Only recently.
Other: Very interesting.
FS: Elsham village have put the squadron crest on their road sign. On the —
Other: Two. Two squadrons.
FS: Yeah. The two squadrons. One on each end of the street signs and road signs haven’t they?
Other: Yes. Wonderful.
FS: They are very very good. I haven’t heard of anybody, there may be other towns but I haven’t heard of them but Elsham did.
Other: You could even talk about leaving and moving to the Fleet Air Arm.
DS: Well, I was going to ask next about, did your involvement with RAFA lead to Mailly.
FS: Yes.
DS: Visits to Mailly.
FS: Definitely and we’ve been back to Mailly two or three times haven’t we?
Other: Because of the raid.
FS: And Mailly of course is where we really gave the German —
Other: It was a French town.
FS: It was a French military depot but the Germanys captured it and made it into a base for tanks to be prepared for defence of the, of the coast when we did invade and —
Other: A month before D-Day.
FS: Pardon?
Other: A month before D-Day.
FS: Yeah. It was just before D-Day.
Other: That they did the raid.
FS: Oh yeah. It was a wonderful raid was that.
DS: Keep going [unclear]
FS: Yeah. Well, I can’t. I don’t know how to draw.
DS: Ok.
FS: On that really.
DS: So, going back to Elsham.
FS: Yeah.
DS: Did you ever fly in an aircraft?
FS: Yeah. I had one or two [laughs] I’ve had one or two flights in a Lancaster. Three I think. Three or four.
DS: How did that happen?
FS: I think illegally most times. Yes. I think illegally because I’d been, I’d been working and talking to the aircrew and the skipper and he was saying, ‘Do you want, do you want to go up?’ And I’d say, ‘Yes.’ And then once he didn’t tell me they were going on fighter affiliation and that is when they throw the Lanc all over the sky to evade a practice attack and boy oh boy I brought everything I’d got up there. I never left the elsan because I thought I wasn’t airsick but I was on fighter affiliation.
DS: I think you once mentioned to me about you were pleased that you were on air frames rather than armaments.
FS: Yeah. Well, I’d no skill. That was my skill if any. That was my skill was airframes. It was more you know more what I’d been doing in Civvy Street and I’ve always [pause] but engines? I know nothing about them and never, you know if a car breaks down it’s not for me to discuss it.
DS: But the, was it the armament people who had to do additional work.
FS: Oh well.
DS: Or was that a different —
FS: Yeah. Well, there was armourer guns and armourer bombs. Well, armourer guns you know what that is and the guns would take out and they would go in a workshop but armourer bombs they used to bomb up ready for the raid. And sometimes you’d be in the cinema and you knew our, and there would be an announcement, ‘Would armourer, would all armourer bombs go back to the base.’ Go back to their bases because some person in charge had decided the load, the load of that type of bomb wasn’t suitable and it had to be changed. So I used to debomb and bomb up again so sometimes a night at the cinema went for a, went for a burton as you could, as we used to say.
Other: And my father was one of them.
FS: Yeah. Betty’s, yeah my wife Betty’s father was.
Other: He was an armourer.
FS: An armourer. Yeah.
Other: In the RAF.
FS: Yeah.
Other: And he joined voluntarily.
FS: Yeah.
Other: And he joined voluntarily in the First World War but one he was too young and the other he was really too old.
FS: Too old. Well done.
DS: So how did everybody get to the planes if they were scattered all over the airfield?
FS: You went —
DS: Was that done by bike?
FS: Yeah. It could be bike but you could often get a lift on a utilicon. They dashed here and there around. A little Bedford truck and they dashed all over the place and you could ask a WAAF if she’d take you too. But bikes were very much used.
DS: So you kept fit.
FS: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
DS: Ok. So you did nine months I think you said, at Elsham.
FS: Yeah.
DS: And then what happened?
Other: The end of the war came.
FS: No. Elsham was RAF wasn’t it?
Other: Yes.
FS: Yeah. I had to go in the Fleet Air Arm then didn’t I?
Other: The end of the war came.
DS: The end of the war in Europe.
FS: Yeah, that’s right.
DS: Yeah.
FS: Yeah. And very very quickly. Very very quickly I was taken out of RAF uniform and put in, sent to a Naval place and that was at the one near Liverpool. Sealand.
DS: Oh right. Ok. Was that the first time you’d been —
FS: No. Wait a minute. No. Wait a minute. The training for the Navy was, was —
Other: Weeton.
FS: Was Warrington.
DS: Yeah.
FS: It was —
Other: That’s right.
FS: It was at HMS Godwit at Warrington. Yes. And there was about six of these camps all within a mile or two and they were all called HMS this, HMS that. I think it was HMS Gosling actually. There is a, yeah. Ok. And then you did, you know when you were —
Other: That was the Fleet Air Arm.
FS: That was. That was Fleet Air Arm which is classed as Royal Navy but it was —
DS: So you were doing a similar job in terms of —
FS: Yes, that was —
DS: Joinery work.
Other: Yeah.
FS: Yeah.
DS: But on Naval planes.
Other: Yeah. But obviously it was the end of the war in Europe and that’s why he went because there was still the war in Japan.
FS: Yeah.
Other: That was the reason.
FS: Yeah, I got the draft. I got a draft to Sydney. To a ship in Sydney.
Other: This was for the —
FS: Yeah.
Other: War in Japan.
FS: And I came up two weeks embarkation leave and I went back and within a couple of days we’d dropped the bomb and the Japs surrendered so they cancelled the draft. So I never went on that draft although I got even my lightweight tropical kit issued by that time. Don’t know why I didn’t keep it.
Other: It was the seventieth anniversary yesterday.
FS: Yeah. It was seventy years ago.
DS: Yeah. You mentioned about the sergeant being on a charge for damaging the wing.
FS: Well, you’ve gone back a long time. I mentioned that.
DS: Yeah. I was just wondering if you’d ever been on a charge.
FS: Yes. I was. I stayed over. I stayed over a weekend until Monday morning. I should have gone back Sunday night and been at work and I was late you see. Instead of being 8 o’clock in the morning to go to work I wasn’t around and Squadron Leader Gardiner put me on a charge.
DS: Is that a serious thing to be, to —
FS: It is if you change into civvies as I did. I didn’t realise until afterwards how. I only changed into civvies so the Redcaps on the station, they were Redcaps you know, military police on the stations and I thought well if I’m in civvies they won’t, they won’t pull, but I found out later if I had have been pulled in being in civvies was a very very serious charge because it was like desertion from the Forces you see.
DS: Yeah. So just going back you went into the Fleet Air Arm. They then dropped the atomic bomb. And then what happened? You were talking about getting —
FS: They stopped the —
DS: On to a ship.
FS: Yeah, they stopped the draft. They stopped the draft and we still had [pause] they sent me to another, another place somewhere on the Welsh border. I can’t remember the name. I think it was a Maintenance Unit and what they called a MU. I’ve talked to somebody who lived, who lives near it and so I remembered and from there I got demobbed. It was a matter of wasting time then ‘til your group came and I was fifty some group. And when it came I came up and I was sent to York to be demobbed and get my civilian clothes. That was it. All over.
DS: You altered the date.
FS: Yeah.
DS: We’d better have all the secrets here you know.
FS: Yeah. Well, in the Fleet Air Arm we all had age and service groups for demobilisation and so I could, so I could go, still get away on a summer holiday with a friend. My age and service group was just capable of being altered from 57 to 54. So when the call for 54 Group to go out I marched out with them and didn’t get caught. So I owe them a couple of month I think. That’s what it, that’s the difference it made getting out in August as opposed to probably late September. Something like that.
DS: So how do you feel about Bomber Command was treated after the war?
FS: Well, it seems to be that they’re [pause] they’re only just, it’s only just getting around to realising you know when those lads flew out they had very little chance. They’d only, I don’t know what the odds were but you know they’d [pause] there was a good chance that they wouldn’t get back. And they were all kids you know. There was only seemed to be the pilot that had any, had —
Other: Any age to him.
FS: Had any, yeah had any age on his shoulders you know. They all, he was always, he seemed always a little bit older but I mean the kid, the kid in the rear turret you know he’d probably be killed at eighteen, nineteen.
Other: We met people at Elsham who had flown. You met didn’t you?
FS: Oh yeah.
Other: At our Association.
FS: Yeah.
Other: In later years.
FS: Yeah. We, we palled up with as Betty said, at Elsham we palled up with a lad who had been the rear gunner. Have I said this about the rear gunner?
DS: No.
Other: This is the place —
FS: Oh well —
Other: This is the Association.
FS: Yeah. We were, we went down to Mailly. I think I talked about Mailly where we bombed and as we were coming away he said, ‘Just, I’m in the last coach to come away just as I was on the last plane that left after that raid,’ he said. ‘And I was in the rear turret and —’ he said, ‘This Messerschmitt,’ or whatever it was, ‘Was shooting at me with his cannons and he was reaching me but he missed but he was closing in on me.’ And he said, ‘I thought when he gets within range of my 303s I won’t miss, you know.’ So of course, he didn’t and he peppered him and down he went. He said, ‘You know, I didn’t miss because my father taught me to shoot. He was a gamekeeper.’ I’ve always thought that was a tremendous story. He hung on ‘til, ’til the attacker was within his sight, within his range and he could have easily been shot down a lot earlier.
DS: I think about the only sort of hole in this from before was the element between war starting when presumably you were still at school and joining up or you’d be how old when the war started?
FS: About fifteen.
Other: Fourteen, I think.
FS: I wouldn’t say. No. I I think it would be nearer fifteen.
Other: And I was thirteen when the war started.
DS: So you were at school.
FS: Yeah.
DS: And was, what happened to the school?
FS: Well, the school was in the city you see and it was obviously not a safe place to have two or three hundred children so they divided them up and they put them in to school. They made schools in halls and all sorts of things way out in the country. And so instead of going to your school you had to go to this, some hall or other.
DS: So you were bussed in and out daily?
FS: No.
DS: You lived —
FS: You weren’t bussed.
DS: You lived, you lived out there.
FS: No, you had to get yourself there. I mean you’d get yourself there.
DS: Oh right.
FS: I don’t know whether there would be buses. Public buses to get.
DS: Ok. And then I think it would be, anything else that you would like to say?
Other: Yes, he [unclear]
FS: Yeah. That’s —
DS: We’re getting all the stories now, aren’t we?
FS: Well, it was a bit of going to these classes which were out, you know, out in the sticks. I thought it was easier to stay in the middle of Bradford and going to Brown Muff’s Toy Department and spend a bit of time there. So I, and when my father found out and he, I was supposed to be going to school until I was sixteen. So my father found out and he said, ‘You’d better leave and get a job.’ So I did. So I got a job at fourteen.
DS: Where did you get the job? What were you doing?
FS: I went to the super, the superstore in the middle of Bradford called Brown Muffs. They’re no longer there but it was a, it was the elite store and I got a job there.
DS: And what kind of job did you get?
FS: Well, everybody that went to Brown Muffs had to start in the parcel department so you ran, you sorted your parcels into, Brown Muff’s was so posh they would hand deliver that day a pair of lady’s stockings. It was, you know it was a, ‘Yes, sir,’ ‘Yes madam,’ store of the likes you don’t see today. And I used to be, sort these little parcels into areas and then set off on the bus with six, perhaps six deliveries under my arm. But then, then a job came in the Joinery Department and I thought well I’m fairly handy I’ll ask for that job as an apprentice. It wasn’t as a [pause] so I went from delivering the parcels into, into the Joinery Department which was mainly upkeep of the store you see.
DS: Right. So did that have any bearing then on when you went into the RAF?
FS: Yeah. Well, I could say, I could —
DS: Why you became an airframe fitter and joined —
FS: Yes, it did because I could honestly say that I’d been a trainee. A trainee joiner you see or a cabinet maker. A cabinet maker it was really in that store. And they sort of said ok. They gave me a trade test and as long as I passed that trade test that bore out what I’d told them. That I’d —
DS: Yeah.
FS: I could handle tools and then that’s why I got into the air fitter air frames.
DS: Right. Very good. Anything else that you want to mention?
FS: I think I’ve said enough.
Other: He didn’t go into when he came out that he went into photography.
FS: Yeah. You see, yes. That is important because I’d done, I’d messed about with photography since I was many years before that and I don’t know why I didn’t mention. Well they’d know. They’d know what I’d been doing. But I decided photography was a far better life and after a few, after a few freelance jobs I was very lucky I met, I met the editor, or a connection with the editor of the Bradford Telegraph and Argos and I started as a staff photographer and kept it up for you could say all my working life.
Other: And you were outside.
FS: And I’m still —
Other: Yeah, you were outside Westminster Abbey.
FS: Yeah.
Other: With your plate glass camera.
FS: Yeah, and the —
DS: At the Coronation.
Other: On Coronation Day.
FS: And over ninety there are members of my family are still trying to get me. Get me to work. Ok.
DS: So you’ve been [pause] right.
FS: Is that it?
DS: I think that’s absolutely fine, dad.
FS: I feel, I feel better.
DS: We’ll finish that.
FS: Yeah, let’s have a drink.
103 Squadron
576 Squadron
ground personnel
military living conditions
RAF Elsham Wolds
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/884/11123/AHoughWJ160905.2.mp3
1c6ad66a90fcf551165724a6609e3bda
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Title
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Hough, William
William John Hough
W J Hough
Description
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An oral history interview with Flying Officer Bill Hough (1924 - 2019, 2203740, 197350 Royal Air Force). He few operations as a wireless operator with 582 Squadron.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2016-09-05
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Hough, WJ
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Transcription
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JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Julian Maslin. The interviewee is Mr Bill Hough. The interview is taking place at Mr Hough’s home near Warrington in Cheshire on the 5th of September 2016. Mr Hough, you’ve asked me, you’ve invited me to call you Bill. Bill, I wonder if I could ask you just to tell us please a little about your life before you joined the Royal Air Force and your reasons for signing up.
BH: Well, I’d come from a farming background really but I didn’t myself go in to farming. After I’d left grammar school, I attended grammar school in locally, Northwich. And for a period, I think I was sixteen when I left grammar school but I knew eventually I was going to have to go in the forces. But in the meantime I had a temporary job with ICI which was a pretty big employer in this area, and then when the time come to join up I volunteered rather than be recruited. Mainly so I could go in to the air force rather than be recruited in to say the army or the navy which I wouldn’t have liked. So I volunteered for the air force as soon as I was able. What’s that? Eighteen and a quarter I believe it was when you were able to. So it was in 1943. Spring of 1943 when I joined up.
JM: Would you say that your experience of the Second World War was a factor in you choosing the Royal Air Force?
BH: My experience of the —?
JM: Well you must have seen some of the blitz bombing of Liverpool and Manchester.
BH: Oh certainly. Certainly. I was always attracted to aeroplanes I suppose. I remember going to air shows locally. I was in the cadets.
JM: The ATC.
BH: ATC yeah. For a while. So, and you know I got into various things by doing Morse code and that type of thing so, you know, I’d got a background in aviation and it was natural that if I had a choice I would go into the air force. And well that’s what I did. I was accepted. I was accepted as air crew as well.
JM: Where did you go to enrol?
BH: When I first joined up you mean?
JM: Yes.
BH: I went to Lord’s Cricket Ground. The nursery end actually [laughs] Yeah, I joined at Lord’s Cricket Ground. I don’t know why it was there. It was just a place that was used by the air force I suppose. And we were billeted in St John’s Wood in, there were some very posh apartments there and they were requisitioned. And that’s where we were. We didn’t stay there long because we, you were moved on pretty — you did some drill there but you quickly moved on to ITW. Initial Training Wing.
JM: And where was that please?
BH: Bridgnorth.
JM: So that was the West Midlands.
BH: Yes. Bridgnorth. Yeah.
JM: Do you have any memories of your time at ITW?
BH: I remember arriving at ITW. I don’t know if you know Bridgnorth at all.
JM: Slightly.
BH: Well it’s in two sections — an upper and a lower. And we arrived by rail and the station is at the lower end. The camp was at the top end. We were met by an officer there, a flight lieutenant I remember. And he made, we carried kit of course, and he made us jog all the way with full kit up this hill. It was quite a, quite a difference in height and, you know, we weren’t that fit then [laughs] and he jogged us right up this hill to the camp. I can remember that distinctly. And that’s what? A six weeks course or something isn’t it? ITW. Something like that. Which was pretty well all drill.
JM: Basic airmanship in that sense.
BH: I suppose so. Yes. I can only remember the drill part of it, you know. The parade ground stuff. I suppose to get you fit in a way. Everybody coming in was probably very unfit.
JM: And where did you go to after ITW?
BH: Well, by then I’d opted — I think you had a choice of where you went. Well not, not a choice but you couldn’t be a pilot or a navigator because they were trained overseas pretty well. But I opted for a wireless operator/air gunner. And, you know, which was going to be in two parts and eventually I was sent to the Number 2 Radio School at Yatesbury, Wiltshire. That was a pretty isolated place that was but that was, that was where I went. And that’s where we learned the basics of radio communication. And also did our first flying. Initially in Dominies.
JM: Yes.
BH: And then in Proctors.
JM: Proctors.
BH: Yeah. Well that, I think that was, I don’t know, it was quite a, quite a long course. Probably it might have been six months. It was quite an intensive course. You learned aircraft recognition. Morse code. You had to pass at a certain level and as I say you had to do this stuff in the air as well. First in groups in a Dominie and then on your own. Just with the pilot in the Proctor.
JM: Did your experiences as a cadet help you learning Morse code?
BH: I suppose that’s perhaps in a way why I opted to be a W/op air gunner. I suppose that did contribute. Yes. Yes.
JM: What sort of speeds did you reach?
BH: You had to be able to read twenty. Twenty words per minute. That was the pass out speed. Twenty words per minute. Yeah.
JM: And were you trained in the technology of wireless as it was at that time or was it merely a matter of sending and receiving?
BH: No, there was some technical stuff as well. It was all pretty basic. You weren’t a mechanic or anything, you know. You were an operator. Not a mechanic. Not a radio mechanic. You were an operator. So, but obviously you had to learn some basic stuff to know what went on behind the sets and so on.
JM: And when you’d finished at Yatesbury, at Number 2 Wireless School, where did you go after that?
BH: Well, I went to gunnery school which was at Castle Kennedy, Scotland. Of course I trained as an air gunner because at that time the position was W/op air gunner. It was sort of harking back to the smaller planes where you did two jobs. Whereas when the four engine bombers came in they were quite separate and I never did operate as an air gunner. I trained as an air gunner but I never operated as an air gunner. But I went to Castle Kennedy in Scotland. We did some ground firing initially with a turret on the ground. And then of course you got in to the air and I think we mainly flew Ansons then. You fired from the mid-upper turret at a drogue which was being towed by another aircraft. And as I say I trained there but never used the skill. If it is a skill [laughs]
JM: Well it is deflection shooting.
BH: Yeah.
JM: Did you find that difficult to master?
BH: No. But that’s the basis of it obviously. Deflection shooting. But I don’t know you’ve got to score. They used to score you on what, how close you were. That sort of thing. You got a certificate. It’s in my logbook actually. But you got a certificate when you passed out saying you know, I don’t know, gave you some kind of pass mark I suppose.
JM: So you’re now qualified as a wireless operator/air gunner.
BH: Yes.
JM: And what happened to you next, Bill?
BH: Well, it was [pause] it was OUT, I suppose it was called.
JM: Operational training.
BH: Operational Training Unit.
JM: Yes.
BH: And that was at [pause] Worksop wasn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
JM: So you were at Worksop near Nottingham.
BH: Yes.
JM: On number, Number 8 OTU.
BH: Yes. Number 8 OTU while we flew in Wellingtons. I had that period before that. Number 6 AFU. That’s —
JM: Advanced airborne fighting unit?
BH: Flying Unit. I can’t remember doing any flying there. I remember being at Staverton but I don’t know what we did there exactly. It was a very short period. We soon passed on to the OTU where we flew in Wellingtons and I’m trying to remember when we crewed up but I think that was later. Yeah. It was. Yeah. We did the OTU at Worksop.
JM: Do you have any memories of flying in Wellingtons?
BH: Not a lot really. The positions were quite different there I think. I remember, I think I remember, the wireless operator’s position was down in the nose somehow, whereas later on it was all up on one level, you know. But I think that was down in the nose there.
JM: And did you fly on any missions as part of your OTU training? Did you do leaflet raids or anything of that sort?
BH: No. I think that was a lot of that was done wasn’t it? And when they first did these thousand bomber raids, you know, they included some people from OTUs just to make the numbers up. But they were mainly instructors I think. I don’t think it was in-training people. It was the instructors that went on those. And then after that we went to HCU which is a Heavy Conversion Unit and that was at Lindholme, which is near to Doncaster isn’t it? 1656 HCU. Now, I think that’s where we crewed up. We were then flying Halifaxes actually. That was the training aircraft at that time. For four engine bombers. And I remember the crewing up process was, I don’t know, a bit of a shambles somehow. I mean, I eventually got with a Canadian crew. Now, I can’t remember whether — I remember being in this big room and people going around saying, ‘Have you crewed up yet?’ ‘Have you?’ ‘We’re looking for a wireless operator,’ or, ‘We’re looking for an engineer.’ This type of thing. People just walking around. And, you know, not any system at all. Just leaving it up to, I suppose, the pilots, the captain of the prospective crew. But you see I think five out of the seven of our crew were Canadians and I have a feeling that they were already together. The only two English people were myself who was the wireless operator and the flight engineer. So, I remember, you know, Art Green, who was the skipper, coming up to me and saying me, ‘Are you crewed up yet,’ and sort of giving me a few questions [laughs] and so on. But eventually —
JM: Yeah.
BH: You know, accepted me and that was how you got crewed up and then you started flying in Halifaxes and started to get serious, you know, some serious training.
JM: What did you think about a Halifax as an aeroplane to operate?
BH: I can’t remember a great deal but it obviously didn’t have a great reputation. Not as good as the Lancaster obviously but you know it had its points and was a good training aircraft I suppose. But operationally it wasn’t a success was it? Well, not as successful as some others. That and the Stirling of course were not as successful.
JM: And was it when you were on Heavy Conversion Unit — was that the first time you did operations at all?
BH: No. I didn’t do any operations from there at all. The Lancaster was coming in at that. Well, it had probably been in for a while but it was coming in in big numbers and the Halifaxes were being phased out in favour of Lancasters. So the next step was, for us was to go to an LFU. Oh, what was it called? It was an LFS. Lancaster —
JM: Finishing.
BH: Finishing School. Yeah. In other words converting you from Halifaxes to Lancasters. Mainly for the captain’s purpose I suppose. I mean he was the one that would find the biggest change. I mean the wireless operator was, you know, was operating the same equipment and the gunners were operating the same guns and that kind of thing so it was mainly for the, for the pilot. But that was, you know, quite a short period that LFS. Only a matter of two or three weeks I think, something like that. And then from then you were posted to an Operational Unit.
JM: And where were you posted to?
BH: Firstly to Elsham Wolds. That’s where’s that near? I don’t know.
JM: Elsham Wolds is North Lincolnshire.
BH: Yeah.
JM: Not far from the Humber Bridge now.
BH: I think that’s near to Worksop as well actually.
JM: Not far.
BH: I seem to remember Worksop from there. And that was to 576 Squadron. There were actually two squadrons there you know. 576, and I think it was 103. Both Lancaster squadrons. And from there, we are getting now to September ’44. I mean I’d been training for over a year at that point. It was a long process. And from Elsham Wolds I did ten operations from there.
JM: Do you remember those operations at all? Do you remember how you felt on your first one?
BH: Scared to death I suppose [laughs] well, as you were on most operations for that matter. You just were a bit more familiar after a while. You knew what was coming. But on a first operation obviously you don’t. And I forget where it was too but it was there. I did ten from there and we also — there was a satellite base at Fiskerton which is near to there. And I think we were based there for part of the time for some reason. I don’t know why. But it was a satellite of Elsham Wolds. I did one operation from there. I did ten operations from Elsham and one from Fiskerton. And at that time we were recommended for Pathfinders. The crew was recommended for Pathfinders. So we had to go on another training conversion course and that was at Warboys. We went from Fiskerton to Warboys for the NTU. What does that mean? Training. What’s N mean? Anyway, it was sort of conversion from main stream squadron to, to Pathfinder. We were still flying the same aircraft of course. On Lancasters. And that was only actually three days I see. Just three days for this conversion. And then we were posted to 582 Pathfinder Squadron which was at Little Staughton which was near to Bedford, St Neots. And at little Staughton — it was formerly an American base but when Pathfinders were formed I believe they took it over. I mean Pathfinders hadn’t been in existence for, I don’t know, about a year or eighteen months. And the Yanks gave it up and the Pathfinders took it over. 582 Squadron was based there, that’s a Lancaster squadron. But there was a further squadron — 109 Squadron which flew Mosquitoes. So there were two Pathfinder squadron operating from there.
JM: And how many operations did you do with 582?
BH: Well I did eleven. I did thirty four altogether so that leaves twenty three from there. I did thirty four. Yeah. Fourteen to thirty four.
JM: Was your selection as a Pathfinder crew — was that based on a good record of bombing when you were at Elsham?
BH: Yes. It obviously was but it was mainly to do with the proficiency of the pilot and the navigator I think. I mean the navigator was the key man or was the key man in Pathfinders because, you know, they had to be bang on. Find the target, and mark the target for the Main Force who may not have been as efficient as our navigator. They would have had trouble finding the target if we hadn’t marked it so I think that was the criteria. That you had a good pilot. We had a very experienced pilot. He was [pause] he was a peacetime man, pilot. He was in his thirties actually. He was a flight lieutenant. Later squadron leader. But, I mean, some of the pilots were quite raw. In Main Force particularly. You know, twenty, twenty one, twenty two. And the only flying experience they had was in their training whereas Art Green he had flied before the war and then of course volunteered into the war. So he was a very experienced pilot. Very level headed and, you know. A man you knew you could rely on. Trust.
JM: Just for the tape you said Art Green. Is that short for Arthur Green?
BH: I suppose it is [laughs] I never, we always called him Art actually but [laughs] yeah. We always called him Art. I suppose it was Arthur.
JM: Yeah. Yeah. And was it a collective decision to transfer to Pathfinders or did the captain make it and you had to go along?
BH: I suppose he was invited or selected and we had to go along with him. I don’t think he had a choice. No.
JM: Because it was a longer tour of operations wasn’t it?
BH: Oh yeah. You had — a normal tour in Main Force was thirty ops but in Pathfinders because you’d done so much training you were more, sort of, valuable. And a tour there was, was it thirty five, I think? I think it was thirty five. Yeah. Whereas in Main Force it was thirty.
JM: And was there a special badge that you got to show that you were in the Pathfinder force?
BH: Yes. You had a thing on your breast pocket.
JM: A brevet.
BH: Which we were very very proud of it. It was a golden eagle, ss it? I suppose. Yeah.
JM: Yes.
BH: The air force eagle. Yes. You wore it on the left breast pocket.
JM: And your job with Pathfinders was to illuminate the target with flares.
BH: Yes.
JM: Could you say a bit more about that please?
BH: Well, to me it didn’t [pause] sort of affect my job, anyway, you know. It, it was, I suppose the navigator and bomb aimer that would. And the pilot I suppose. But as far as I was concerned I was just a wireless operator in an aircraft. Obviously, you were going in first and you were, you were in a more dangerous situation because you were first in and sometimes you had to go around and go back in if you missed the target. That sort of thing, so — but apart from that as I say it didn’t really affect me.
JM: Did your aeroplane just carry flares or did it have a mixed load of flares and bombs?
BH: Well, often it was mixed. Yeah. You had a mixture quite often. Depends what you were. You sort of category. Sky markers, and blind markers and all that kind of stuff. So depending what you were you carried a mixed load normally.
JM: Do any of those operations particularly stand out in your mind?
BH: Well, I was shot down on one of them [laughs]
JM: That was —
BH: That stands out in my mind. Yes.
JM: Tell us about that please. If you would.
BH: And this was operation number thirteen [laughs] which might have been our worst. It was a daylight operation actually to a place called Heimbach Dam which was [pause] it was in Northern Germany anyway. But at that time we were — allied forces were advancing through Belgium and there. And just into Germany possibly and we were on this daylight raid bombing just ahead of our forces. In the American sector actually. And this was a dam that was just inside Germany. Heimbach. It was a daylight operation. We took off pretty early. Eight. Eight something I think. It wasn’t deep into Germany so it was only probably a two or three hour trip to there. The weather wasn’t forecast to be marvellous and I remember going. Flying in over Belgium and we were nearing the target. Flying over ten tenths cloud. The forecast just wasn’t good. The weather wasn’t good and we were flying in a stream obviously as we usually did. And we were on the outer starboard side of the stream on the right hand side which was not a good place to be. And then the, our gunner, Major Campbell. He wasn’t a major really. We used to call him major. He was a warrant officer but his nickname was major. Major Campbell. Rear gunner. He reported a plane on the starboard quarter and but he couldn’t identify it, he said. At the moment. It was quite a way off. Two or three miles away but I sort of fancied myself at aircraft recognition. I was always very good at aircraft recognition actually. And I stood up in the astrodome which was near to my position and I immediately identified it as a Messerschmitt 262. Now, that had not been in service very long at that time. It had been operated mainly as a fighter bomber actually. And I don’t think it had been encountered as a fighter but that’s what it was.
JM: And this is important because this was the first operational jet fighter in the world.
BH: Yes.
JM: And this attacked your aeroplane.
BH: Yes. It [pause] he reported this and I identified it as that and I thought he was keeping his eye on it when all of a sudden another one came directly behind us. And he reported that one quickly and said, ‘Corkscrew starboard.’ Which was the procedure when you had, you were being attacked but before we could really get into the corkscrew we were hit. The plane behind was the one that had fired. They carried cannon of course. They were pretty lethal these. And they were fast of course compared with a Lancaster. And it hit us in the port outer. Hit the port outer engine and we were immediately set on fire. Whether it was the fuel or the engine itself I suppose. There’s fuel tanks in that area. So that immediately took fire and we operated the fire extinguishers which didn’t make any difference. So the immediate outcome was for the skipper to say, ‘Abandon aircraft.’ And he ordered myself and the two gunners to go out the back entrance. The rest were at the front. So I clipped my parachute on. You didn’t wear it normally. You had it by your side. You had to clip it on to your harness at the front, and made my way down the fuselage. And the mid-upper gunner, the turret where he was located his feet protruded into the fuselage. You could see the bottom part of his body. There was only the upper part that was in the turret. So I remember going past him and giving him a bang on the legs to sort of tell him to get out in case he hadn’t heard or something like that and made my way down to the rear exit. And Johnny Campbell, the rear gunner was just getting out of his. He’d centred his turret, just getting out of his turret and by the time I got there he’d opened the door. The rear door where we got out. And he indicated to me to go first. And as I stood there my parachute came out. I never have known to this day what happened but my parachute came out through the door and deployed outside the aircraft. You know, pulling me as well and — sort of Johnny Campbell sized the situation up pretty quickly and got hold of me bodily and sort of pushed me out of the door. And going out I banged my head on the door and was lifted up. You know, normally have a parachute you should go down [laughs] initially anyway. But I was lifted up over the tail plane of the Lancaster. Banging my ankle on, on the elevator as I went out. But I eventually got free and after all the chaos that was going on in the plane and the noise everything seemed quiet. You know, just the plane had gone. I couldn’t see it anymore. I couldn’t hear anything. And the only problem was that my harness which you wear all the time in the aircraft. That you sometimes would slacken it off because it was a bit uncomfortable, you know between your legs. You would slacken it off a bit to make it more comfortable. And I omitted to tighten it up when I went out [laughs] and I was half out of the harness and I had hung on with two hands to hold on to the straps of the parachute. And otherwise I might have fallen out of it. But I eventually got down. I could see I was going to land in a field outside of a village. And as I got further down I noticed that there were people coming out of the village there. They must have seen the aircraft and seen me. They were running out of the village and I landed in this field which was, as I say, just outside the village. Not a very good landing obviously because I wasn’t able to do the standard roll because I was hanging on because of this loose harness. And it was quite windy as well as I remember. But I didn’t do any harm to myself and I was quickly grabbed by the villagers who grabbed the parachute and everything. Stopped me from being pulled along and there I was. It was a place called [pause] Tongeren I think it was, near to a place called Juprelle. It was in, it’s in northern, north western Belgium actually. And after about a quarter of an hour the Yanks came. I told you before it was in their sector and they arrived in a jeep and took me to hospital. Now, the outcome was that this gunner — I told you I banged the gunner on the way out. The outcome was that he didn’t get out. Everybody else got out but he didn’t. We always assumed that he was in the line of fire from the plane shooting over the top of the aircraft. Hitting an engine on the port side. He was probably shot, because he never got out. And he was, he was a replacement. That was the ironic part. Our own gunner — Ken McKeown, or Mac as we called him. He was called Mac. Mac McKeown. He was Canadian as well. Ken McKeown. The night before the operation he’d been, I was in the hut with him, we were both sergeants so we were in the same area there. He was cleaning his pistol. We carried a pistol on operations which was stuck in to your flying boot usually. But he was cleaning his and he put it in to the palm of his hand like that and pulled the trigger. And there was one up the spout and it went right through his hand. Clean through his hand. He was taken to hospital. He survived alright. It wasn’t serious I suppose in a way but he survived alright. But the consequence was he couldn’t take his position the next day. And I suppose the fellow that took his place was actually the gunnery leader. He was the Squadron leader. Gunnery leader. He didn’t normally fly. But I suppose he figured it was a pretty easy operation. Just over northern Europe. And he, he went in his place and he didn’t come back.
JM: Very sad.
BH: Yeah. It was very sad.
JM: Let’s have a break shall we?
[recording paused]
JM: Bill, we got to the point in the story where you were telling us about being shot down. I wonder if I could ask you to tell us a little bit more about that event.
BH: Well, I can tell you about what happened afterwards. I told you we were taken to hospital which was in a place called Hasselt which is in Belgium. It was a hospital. A very stark place I remember. It was operated by nuns. I was kept in for three or four days. I’d nothing serious. Just bumps mainly. No cuts or anything like that. After that I was taken to an American camp nearby where I stayed for one night and I recall having some very fine American food while I was there. Something that we didn’t get in the RAF. The Yanks were much better fed then we were. And then they took me to Brussels airport where I hitched a lift. There was no sort of formal arrangements. I hitched a lift on a Dakota back to the UK. First went to Down Ampney and then to [pause] where did I go to?
[pause]
BH: Well it doesn’t matter but it was Down Ampney. And then I went to somewhere much nearer the camp anyway. And then I took a train to St Neots where I phoned up the camp and said I was there. And they came and picked me up. I was still wearing my, all my old flying still, flying boots and my flying kit and everything. Got back to the station and all the other people had arrived before me. They probably hadn’t been in hospital. I don’t think anybody was hurt. Only me. And it was then that I learned that the mid-upper gunner hadn’t survived. And as for the flight engineer — we never saw him again. I don’t know what, we never knew what happened to him. I think he had, this was Denny Naylor who was the other British person, on the, in the crew. Flight engineer. And I think he had some kind of mental breakdown. I think it affected him and he never came back. So we had to have another flight engineer after that. And after that we were given a rest period I think. Probably, intentionally I suppose for people to recover. And I didn’t do another operation for probably six weeks or something like that. This was December the 3rd ’44 that we were shot down. And I think the next operation was February. Early February.
JM: Did you experience any reaction to your events? To your adventures?
BH: I’m sure I did as I say. I didn’t sleep for a long time. We used to come back in your mind, you know. You would see an engine on fire and all this kind of thing. It’s forgotten now but I’m sure at the time it did have a great affect on most people. All the crew. I’m sure.
JM: But there wasn’t any sort of support measures. Counselling or anything.
BH: No. We’d never heard of counsellors in those day [laughs] I don’t think. No. I don’t recall any of that. I mean if you had any problems like that you were soon shipped off. LMF. Lack of moral fibre. That was the term for it wasn’t it? I don’t know whether that happened to our engineer. Whether he just had some kind of mental problem. I don’t know. But as I say I never saw him again.
JM: Did you talk about it within the crew?
BH: About?
JM: What had happened?
BH: I suppose we did but not a great deal I don’t think. I don’t know what the correct approach was. Whether you talk about it or whether you forget it but I don’t recall talking to the crew about it and analysing and saying what we didn’t do properly and this kind of thing. Or what we should have done. I don’t recall anything like that to tell you the truth. It might be on my mind but I really don’t recall anything like that. No.
JM: That’s very helpful.
BH: But, you know, we operated as a crew afterwards again and did quite a few operations again with a new engineer and just got back to normality. If you can call it that.
JM: So you never thought well lightning can’t strike twice.
BH: No. I don’t think so because it does. I knew it had hit. With various, not with us obviously but with other people it could. Yes.
JM: And you completed quite a number of missions in early ’45. Right up to the war’s end.
BH: Yes. Yes. We went right up to the war. We [pause] the last one was — it wasn’t an operation. It was what we called a Manna. Where we took [pause] I don’t know how it was loaded. It was loaded in sacks I suppose — food. The Dutch people had had a very tough time during the war and a lot of them were all starving. And I think this Operation Manna, we only did one but it was before the war actually ended. I think it was the day before. May the 8th the Armistice was signed but this Operation Manna to take food to the Dutch people was on May the 6th or 7th probably. And we were required to load up the stuff in the bomb bay where the bombs would normally be and fly at a very low altitude over this park outside Amsterdam. Release the, open the bomb doors and release this stuff. And I do recall going in. There was, there was still there, a German anti-aircraft post that was still manned. And we could all see the look on these German soldiers you know. I think they thought we were going to bomb them. But that’s the last sort of operation we did.
JM: Now, I’d like to take you back a little way if I may. Could you tell us please, a little more of what it was like to be a wireless operator on a Lancaster raid?
BH: Well, as I say there was a lot of inactivity because your function was to listen. And what you might expect to hear was further instructions from the base. I mean, there was no sort of satellite communication and things like that. The only way you could get into contact with an aircraft that was quite a way from base was through medium wave / long wave radio which we had access to. In the vicinity of the airfield the pilot had contact with the airfield through the short frequency stuff. So as I say the the function of the operator was to listen mainly. And the messages you might get was, you know to change target. To change. Recall you. Something like that. If the weather was deemed to be too bad you might be recalled. And in an emergency you could transmit if you were going to ditch or something like that say. I mean in our instance we didn’t have time to do anything so, but if you were making a gradual descent and you had time to do something like that you could transmit. You were advised actually to lock the key down sometimes. You just locked the key down. It sent a continuous signal instead of being an interrupted signal which Morse code is. It just sent a continuous signal which would be picked up and it would indicate you were having problems. But otherwise as I say it was not a lot to do. I used to spend time in the astrodome which was nearby to have a lookout and see what was happening or say, identify something like I told you in the [pause] when we were shot down I was able to assist with the aircraft identification.
JM: So you will have seen, perhaps approaching the target you’ll have seen the searchlights and the anti-aircraft fire.
BH: Yes. Yes. Well, tracers and everything. It’s like a firework display when you’re going in I’m afraid.
JM: Did any of the anti-aircraft ever get close to your aircraft?
BH: Oh yeah. We had damage often, you know. You could hear it banging in the fuselage. And when you got back you might be peppered with holes. Oh yes. You got, and of course, you know if it was very, if a shell burst very close to you it upset the balance of the aircraft so — but you also got shrapnel from those shells. That was what did the damage but unless you got a direct hit I suppose you got away with it. But it was quite a sight going in. And plus all the stuff that was on the ground. The flares were there that we, that had been dropped. Yellow, green, red flares. And of course the fires. Often there was huge fires. So it was a spectacular sight in a way.
JM: Now, 582 Squadron was an important squadron in many ways but it had, as a member, the South African Captain Swales VC.
BH: Yeah.
JM: Could you tell us a little bit about that? Did you know that officer? And can you tell us a little about it?
BH: I only [pause] knew him, sort of to speak to. I wasn’t friendly with him or anything like that because most of the time I was a sergeant. He was an officer obviously. So we were in different messes. But after I got shot down early in ’45 I was promoted to flying officer but he’d been lost by then I think. So I didn’t really have close contact with him but I mean I was very familiar, quite familiar with him because he was a bit different. He wore an army uniform and he had a bit of a reputation. He acted as Master Bomber on various occasions. But apart from that, as I say, I couldn’t give any sort of personal assessment of him at all. But he was well — I know he was well liked. I used to know somebody from his crew. They were, you know were very fond of him. Trusted him. In fact I think when he was shot down there was only one crew member got out and that was the rear gunner who I did know quite well. I can’t recall his name now but I remember I used to speak to him at these reunions and things like that. But he was the sole survivor of that when Swales was shot down.
JM: He wasn’t the only VC winner on that squadron.
BH: No. There was one to Squadron Leader Palmer. Now, he was actually a member of 109 Squadron. Another Pathfinder Squadron. They did what was referred to as oboe marking. It was a beam that was sent out from [pause] from this country over the target and they would bomb on the end of that. They did a similar job to us but they only dropped flares mainly. But this particular operation, I don’t know, it must have been something special. He, Palmer who was a pilot with 109 was assigned to fly a Lancaster instead of a Mosquito and he was also acting as Master Bomber. So I don’t recall why it was this way but he was in a 582 plane at the time and when he was awarded that there was some debate of whether it should be credited to 582 Squadron or 109 Squadron. I suppose in fairness its 109 Squadron but he was flying with 582 Squadron and in a 582 aircraft at the time.
JM: Can we go back to your story because you’ve taken us very clearly to the end of the war. I understand you did a Cook’s Tour operation. Could you tell us about that?
BH: Well this was one of the things that we did after, after May the 8th. After the Armistice. There were various aircraft were consigned to do this so-called Cook’s Tour and it was to take ground crew mainly who, you know, had done a great job during the war. We relied on them for all the servicing and so and we got to know them very well. We normally had the same ground crew and we were allowed to put in [pause] I don’t know how many you could get in a Lancaster. Probably five or six. And take them of a tour of Germany to see what damage had been done with their assistance. And mainly, a tour was mainly down the Ruhr Valley. Where we flew down the Ruhr Valley, down the course of the Rhine at fairly low level. Sort of a sightseeing tour. That’s why it was called a Cook’s Tour. But, you know, on the way down you saw all the damage that had been done to places like Cologne and Ruddesheim and places like that. Mannheim. All the way down the valley. I often wondered what they could see because there was, there was really no viewing point in a Lancaster. No windows apart from the turrets. So they must have taken it in turns looking out of the turrets I think. Or going forward. The pilot might have let them in the flight engineer’s position. Something like that. But this, this, I think we did a couple of those. Just sort of appreciation of the work that they’d done really. And then after that we did trips to Italy. This, there was a great rush after the war to bring prisoners of war back. It was obviously going to take a long time to get them all back. So to, you know get some back as quickly as possible whole squadrons were sent to Italy to bring back prisoners of war. We flew to Bari, which was on the opposite side from Naples on the east side. And, yeah we usually stayed a night and then flew back with a compliment of prisoners of war. Now, I don’t know how many we packed in there but we packed them in quite a few. I mean a Lancaster is not, it’s not very roomy inside. There’s nowhere to sit. Must have sit on the floor. They must have sat on the floor and must have been very uncomfortable but I suppose it’s only a three hour trip so they were probably glad to, to, to suffer the conditions. But I often wondered that, you know, it must have been extremely uncomfortable. Particularly if they weren’t feeling too well with air sickness and that kind of thing, you know. But that’s what we usually did. We usually had a night, as I say, in Italy and I recall we were probably going to Naples. We had some few adventures in Naples with various [unclear] I don’t know what I was thinking about there but [pause] I remember going into a shop to buy something and with a few other people and somebody stole a knife. Had picked the knife up and must have taken it out. One of the people I was with. And this shopkeeper noticed it. And he got really upset. I thought oh we’re in trouble here. You know, we got out pretty quick. He didn’t follow us God he was annoyed. And I remember on one occasion we went to the opera. The Opera House in Naples. What’s it called? I don’t know. But we went to the opera which was a new experience for me. I’d never been to the opera before.
BH: I wanted to ask you really about your social life. That’s the wrong word. Non-operational life when you were operating with 582. What did you do when you were off duty?
BH: Well, you would normally, when you sort of started your day you would check in each mess. When there was an operation on there was a notice posted in the officer’s mess and the sergeant’s mess. If there was an operation on that day they would give you all the details. First of all they would give you the crews that were on there. The time of take-off, time of the meal, the flying meal that is before the thing and briefing. Time of briefing. All that kind of information. If you weren’t on it well that was the signal usually to go in to Bedford or St Neots. They were the places that we frequented most. Bedford moreso I think. Drinking or dancing. Plenty of dancing going on in Bedford I remember. Our skipper had a car actually which we normally all packed in. We went out as a crew mostly. Johnny Campbell had a motorbike also but if we were going into Bedford we’d probably go in the skipper’s car. You know. Seven of us in it. A bit overloaded but not everybody went every time I suppose but he had this car so that was the usual thing. To Bedford. St Neots was not a bad place. There was only pubs there but that was about it. Drinking weak beer in St Neots or Bedford. Or dancing as I say. There was quite a lot of dancing.
JM: And you must have had the experience of hearing of the loss of friends of yours.
BH: Yes. I lost [pause] well I lost a very dear friend in training actually. I think it was at OTU. No. Not OTU. Yeah, I guess it must have been OTU. We were flying in the, yeah it was a training exercise. It was in the St Ives area. That’s the St Ives near to Huntingdon. Not the one in Cornwall. We did a lot in that area. And his name was Hopkins. He was a wireless operator as well. He came from South Wales. And he was on the same operations as I was. Flying in Ansons. And he just didn’t, he crashed somewhere in that area and didn’t come back. But you know operationally you were losing friends all the time. You never got really to know anybody that well because you know you weren’t together that long. You had a lot of acquaintances but not a lot of friends. I mean, your closest friends were your crew.
JM: So we’re now up to the summer of 1945. Did you stay with the RAF?
BH: Well, I only stayed because I had to. Right after the war Canadians were back to Canada just like that. They were back the same month almost. So all my crew left right away, you know. Probably during May even and so we were transferred to various things. I remember going to Graveley [pause] yeah. To Graveley. Was posted from Little Staughton to Graveley and I think we did a couple of these trips to [pause] to Italy from there. With a different crew of course. But then later on — well before that we were actually, the buzz was that we were going to go to the Far East. The Japanese war was still going on obviously and crews were being trained to go out to the Far East. But in the meantime there was a tour of Brazil being arranged and this was — during the war Brazil was very helpful to the United Kingdom. They opened their ports to our ships. Particularly for repairs and stuff like that. Air Chief Marshall Harris decided that he would make a goodwill tour of Brazil and crews were selected. One was, there were three crews to go with him. With Harris. I think one was from 5 Group, one was from 8 Group which was Pathfinders and one was from 1 Group. So there were various criteria for this. I don’t quite know what they were. But one of the criteria I do remember was that we had some civilian clothes and I happened to have some and I sort of volunteered this and I was selected as the wireless operator from Pathfinder Force. And we had a pilot from 582 Squadron as well I suppose. Now, this was, nobody was quite sure what was going to happen but in the end it turned out to be quite a trip. We were to fly in three adapted Lancasters which had been painted white actually. And the interiors had been fitted to accommodate various people. They put some seating in of some kind. I don’t know how they did it exactly but, you know, I can’t imagine Harris sort of [laughs] sitting on the main spar or something like that but obviously they did rig up some kind of seating. Because there was Harris and he had quite a lot of aides obviously and we had to carry our own ground staff with us because during the flight out we had to service. Do our own servicing. So there was a lot of ground crew as well. But I recall we were there more or less when the Olympic Games were on. This year. That period. Their winter actually. Winter in the southern hemisphere. The end of July beginning of August. But it was quite a route and quite an experience really because for one thing we had to fly across the South Atlantic which had never been done before. The route we took was down [pause] we took off from St Mawgan in Cornwall. Flew down the [pause] we had to be careful where we were flying. The military weren’t allowed to fly over certain countries, you know. I think Portugal in particular. So we had to skirt Spain and Portugal and fly down the — we landed first in Morocco. I remember spending the night in Morocco and then the next one was down in Bathurst. I think it’s changed its name now. Bathurst in West Africa which was the westernmost point of Africa. That being chosen to make it as short as possible the crossing. And I do remember there we had great difficulty in finding the airport because it’s jungle there and if you’re flying over what looks like trees all the time trying to find a place where there’s a clearing which would be the airport. But we got there eventually and from Bathurst we flew across the South Atlantic but they made special arrangements for that I remember. The Brazilians spaced three destroyers at intervals across the South Atlantic in case there was any problems. I think we flew from Bathurst to [pause] was it Natal or Recif? Natal I think it was. Which was in Northern Brazil. And from there down to Rio de Janeiro where we were to stay while we were feted. Well, sort of followed Harris around. He was feted and we sort of hung on to his coat tails and got all the festivities and so on that went on. One thing I do recall about Rio. The airport there, it was more or less inside Rio. Still there I think. I remember seeing it on the map of the Olympics this year. It’s called Santos Dumont, after the pioneer. But it had water at both ends and quite a short runway. So, you know, it was tricky landing but we landed there because we wanted to keep the aircraft there because later, at later dates we were going to give access to people. To show, to show the aircraft to the people in that area. But that was quite a thing. We stayed there. We had all kinds of dinners and visits and this kind of thing. Entertained at barbecues. We flew down to Sao Paulo. To Port Alegre. We were assigned a Brazilian Air Force Captain, he was. Captain Umberto I remember his name was. He had a plane that he flew us around in. A twin engine Beechcraft. And we were flown around various functions. As I say to Sao Paulo and Port Alegre. But that was a marvellous time really. We stayed, I think the visit lasted about four weeks. But when the time came to leave one of the Lancasters became unserviceable and needed an engine change. And we were selected to stay behind with it which [laughs] was no great imposition really, I suppose. So we were there for another couple of weeks because they had to fly this engine in from Canada. So we had to wait for the engine to be flown down from Canada and then put in by the ground staff of course before we were able to leave. So we had another couple of weeks. I mean all the official stuff had finished by then so we were given a daily allowance I think it was to sort of feed ourselves and so on because before everything had been on the Brazilian government and that kind of thing. But when we took off to leave you couldn’t take off from Santos Dumont with a full load of petrol because the runway was too short. You had to have a minimum and we flew to another airport outside of Brazil which I think is now the international airport. And, you know, to refuel there before we flew on. Flew back. Flew — where did we go? To Recife again I think. And then to the Bahamas. We missed America. We went straight to Montreal. We never landed in America. Went from Bahamas to Montreal. Goose Bay. Reykjavik and then back to this country.
JM: What an adventure.
BH: It was an adventure. I wrote an account of it at the time. All the journey times and mileage and all that kind of thing but it was quite an adventure.
JM: I must ask you did you form any views of Harris because you travelled with him? What was he like?
BH: I don’t know that I ever really met him. He wasn’t in our aircraft. He flew with a Wing Commander, Swann was his name I think. He flew in the 5 Group aircraft from Wyton. No. I can’t form an opinion of him but he hasn’t had a very good press I don’t think. But I can’t recall speaking to him, say. Something like that or even — we were in his company all the time obviously because we were going to night clubs and that kind of thing and going to ceremonies but we never came in direct contact with him.
JM: So when you got back to Britain after this remarkable journey did you leave the Royal Air Force at that point?
BH: No. I was kept in. I was sent to — the trip to the Far East was gone by then of course because the atomic bomb had been dropped and the Japanese war had finished while we were in Brazil. On August the 8th. We were in Brazil then when the Japanese war ended. No. After that I was posted back to Finningley in Yorkshire where I, I was an instructor. I instructed on various wireless things you know for [pause] well I didn’t come out of the air force ‘til March ’47. So I was at Finningley for possibly six months on these instruction duties.
JM: I think you told us that you were a member of the 582 Association. Did you, did you maintain contact with your crew?
BH: I did because after the war I migrated. I went to Canada because of the influence of this Canadian crew and everything. You know, things after the war were not good. I was discharged, as I say, in the spring of ’47. I stayed at home for about six months working on the family farm but I thought this is not for me and we decided to go to Canada. So I stayed in Canada for about fourteen years. From ’47 to ’61. And during that time I didn’t actually meet with the crew. Only one of the crew. Johnny Campbell the rear gunner was the only one I met with. The rest of them lived out in the west actually. Campbell lived in New Brunswick but the remainder lived in Winnipeg, Vancouver. So I never got out there so I was in contact with, you know it was letters or cards or whatever. But the only one I met personally was Johnny Campbell that saved my life. I saw him a few times. He came. Well he came to, I was in Toronto and he came to work in Toronto actually although he was from New Brunswick. But for a while he came to work for one of the oil companies in Toronto so I saw quite a bit of him then. After I came back I gradually lost contact. I’m not in contact anymore. Probably nobody’s alive anymore I suppose but —
JM: When you look back on that incredible period of your life how do you see things now?
BH: Well, it’s something that you can look back with a certain amount of pleasure and satisfaction I suppose. But whether you’d want to repeat it I don’t know. But I often think that, you know — there was I, nineteen, twenty. With a lot of people all of similar age, you know. Pilots, perhaps a bit older than us because they had a longer training. But pilots of a four engine bomber with responsibility for seven crew. You know, people, people twenty two say. Twenty one, twenty two, twenty three like that. It was certainly an experience, but I think of my own grandson at times and I think when he was nineteen. When I was his age he didn’t, would he have been fit to go and do what I did. Would people nowadays at nineteen, twenty go and do what I did. It’s remarkable really how young we were and the responsibilities that we had at that age. Which, I’m sure, you know whether people would take to it today the same I really don’t know. But it’s an experience you wouldn’t have missed. But whether you’d, as I say, you’d volunteer for it again I don’t know. It’s certainly something that, you know has [pause] given me a lot of friends over the period. A lot of contacts and events to attend and that kind of thing. You know, I’ve always felt part of the RAF family since and I’ve always been going to any events that were planned via the squadron basis or whatever. Bomber Command basis. I belonged to Bomber Command. They had their own Association as well. So I used to belong to that as well. They used to have functions at Hendon and places like that. So, you know, it’s been life enhancing. There’s no doubt about it.
JM: Did you get your clasp?
BH: Yes. Yeah.
JM: Was that presented to you or —?
BH: No. I wrote off. I had to write off for it but I’ve got it.
JM: How do you feel about the way that Bomber Command was treated?
BH: I think we were treated fairly shabbily but I think it made some part reconciliation but not as we felt it should be. I felt we should have got some kind of campaign medal. And to his credit Harris always, I think he was the problem. He had disagreements with so many people. If you’ve ever read his biography or any biographies of the campaign that he was a difficult man to deal with and fell out with a lot of people. And a lot of people didn’t agree with what he did. The type of, you know this area bombing which, you know rather than strategic bombing. All the blame was put on him which I’m sure it wasn’t. It was further up. I don’t think he decided policy. He carried it out but he didn’t decide the policy. But I think he was treated pretty shabbily too. But —
JM: Bill, I think this would be a good place to finish. Thank you so much. You’ve given us a very full, thorough, detailed and very moving account of your service with Bomber Command. Thank you indeed.
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Interview with William Hough
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Julian Maslin
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2016-09-05
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHoughWJ160905
Conforms To
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Pending review
Format
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01:26:24 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Hough came from a farming background, went to a local grammar school in Northwich and was a member of the Air Training Corps. He joined the RAF in 1943. He describes his initial training at Bridgnorth. Bill then goes into the continuation training then going to wireless school where he became a wireless operator and air gunner. Bill was then part of 8 OTU (Operational Training Unit) where they flew Wellington’s, then the HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit) flying Halifaxes. Bill then went to Finishing School and flew Lancaster’s. A part of the Pathfinders, Bill flew with 582 squadron. Bill then reminisces his operations, one of which where his aircraft was attacked by a Messerschmitt 262. Bill then details being shot down and his experiences of getting back to Britain through Belgium, where he stayed with American forces and recalled that they were much better fed. Bill took part in Operation Manna and details the experiences of anti-aircraft fire. Bill also recollects his squadron and the Victoria Cross recipient, South African Captain Swales, Bill did not have close contact with him but knew he was well liked. Bill also remembers another Victoria Cross recipient, Squadron Leader Palmer, who was a pilot in 109 Squadron but was flying with 582 Squadron and a 582 aircraft at the time. He also describes his experiences when he was off-duty and often went to Bedford and St. Neots to drink and dance. Bill later details his experiences after the war and being selected to go on a goodwill tour to Brazil with Air Marshall Sir Arthur Harris and was in Brazil when the war in Asia ended. After instruction duties, Bill emigrated to Canada and stayed for fourteen years, and met Air Gunner Johnny Campbell who saved his life. Bill’s interview finishes with the legacy of Bomber Command and receiving his medal clasp.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Benjamin Turner
1656 HCU
576 Squadron
582 Squadron
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bale out
bombing
Cook’s tour
Dominie
Halifax
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Me 262
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Castle Kennedy
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Fiskerton
RAF Lindholme
RAF Little Staughton
RAF Worksop
RAF Yatesbury
shot down
training
Wellington
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/858/11100/AHarrisHST150909.1.mp3
0644ea5d3fae401b624fe3f915057fc0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Harris, Harry
Harry Stracan Thomson Harris
H S T Harris
Sam Harris
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Harry Stracan Thomson Harris (162261 Royal Air Force). He flew two tours of operations as a navigator with 103 Squadron and later with 105 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Harris, HST
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: Alright. This is Brian Wright and I’m interviewing Mr Harry Harris on Wednesday the 9th of September at 2:25 in the afternoon in his house. So, Harry, you were in the RAF, in Bomber Command. What was your rank when you left?
HH: Flight lieutenant.
BW: Ok. And start us off. Just please tell me about your home life before the war.
HH: Well in 1939 I lived in ‘Trose and I went down to London to start a chef’s course at the Westminster College for Cookery and I stayed with an aunt who lived in London. I was there during the Blitz and then my, my cousin and I didn’t agree so I was evacuated to Exeter as an evacuee.
BW: Right.
HH: But I didn’t like it at Exeter and I came back to London. Started, re-started on the course and I lived in a sort of YMCA place beside the River Thames and it was the centre of the bombing there and, but I liked it. I went out every night to watch the bombers. But then I had to leave and I found out later, my aunt had been paying for my education and she had to stop work and look after her parents. So, I had to go home and I worked for a year in a mental, the hospital of a mental asylum.
BW: And what year was that?
HH: That was in 1941. And then when I became seventeen and a half — it was 1940, I came back. And when I became seventeen and a half I volunteered as a pilot at Aberdeen. Then I went to Edinburgh about July to do the course. The tests and things. And they drilled me then as a navigator and I found out much later, when I was at the RAF flying college that if you got a certain, they did a maths test and if you got above a certain number you automatically qualified as a navigator. Under that you became a pilot or an air gunner. And we used to, when we found out we used to call them the dim pilots [laughs] because they couldn’t pass the test. But then I went to, went to London to Lord’s Cricket Ground. That was where we think we met. And then went down to Torquay. Babbacombe near Torquay, for the first course. Training course. And then from there to Eastbourne for another course and from there went to, to South Africa for our flying. We landed at Cape Town and went up to Pretoria and then down to Port Elizabeth where we did our course. Our flying course. And then passed out and got our wings. I got mine in November 1942.
BW: And this was your navigator wings.
HH: Navigator. Yes.
BW: Right. What prompted you to become a navigator? I think you mentioned earlier you wanted to be a pilot.
HH: A pilot. Yeah. Well when I went —
BW: Why the change?
HH: When I went to this board at Edinburgh. I forget what they called the board. Screening board. And we did, you know, oral interviews. We had written tests and one was a maths test and apparently that’s when the heavy bombers were coming in and they wanted navigators and so they did this by choosing above a certain percentage in the maths test. You were automatically selected as navigator.
BW: Ok. And when you went down to Cape Town for the, for the flying was that the navigational instructional part of flying?
HH: Yes.
BW: So you were put in an aircraft and learned to navigate.
HH: That’s right. Yeah. We flew in Oxfords. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: At Port Elizabeth. And there used to be three u/t navigators in an aircraft. One was navigating. One was sitting beside the pilot and using the wind to find out the winds and the other one did the Astra. And —
BW: The Astra being the star navigations.
HH: Astra navigation. Yeah. And on the second last one of our course we flew out over the sea and our course commander was an ex-naval officer and we flew over the sea and we saw all these lifeboats. A tremendous number of lifeboats. We couldn’t communicate with them so we came back to Port Elizabeth and they sent out a boat and picked up all the survivors. But the next day we went out again. This time I was sitting in the front with the pilot and I saw a boat. It was a U-boat.
BW: Right.
HH: And the pilot, the South African pilot and he turned towards this U-boat and started diving. Now this U-boat came up, there was three gunners at the far end of the boat with a gun and they were firing at us and the shells were just going two or three feet above us because they weren’t allowing for us going down. So we carried a depth charge and as we got closer the three men ran towards the conning tower. As we got closed the conning tower was closed so they couldn’t get in. We dropped the depth charge and at this time we were only about fifty feet and this time we turned. There was nothing left. The U-boat had gone. And years, years later I met the course commander and, you know I asked if anything had happened about that. And he said, ‘No. They never confirmed the loss of a U-boat.’ Yeah.
BW: So you weren’t sure whether it had dived and avoided it or whether it had been hit.
HH: No. We didn’t know.
BW: There was no trace of it.
HH: No.
BW: Right. And that was just on, that was just on the training.
HH: [laughs] Yes. On training. That was our last trip. Funny. We went back to Cape Town and then, I forget where and we got on the boat again to come home. And we were in the South Atlantic when we, the ship ran into the wreckage of a ship that had been torpedoed. We lost a propeller and had to go in to New York and we got there on the 26th of December. And we were there for three weeks. Beautiful.
BW: Very good. And so, you then must have come back from America.
HH: We came back to New York.
BW: At some point.
HH: Back to Glasgow. Yeah. And then we did more flying at Wigtown on Ansons. Just to get acclimatized, you know, with the country. And then we went to the Operational Training Unit and it’s all written down there. That’s where we met the first of the crew. The pilot was Ken Murray and he’d trained in America and he wanted to fly on fighters. And when he found he was going to be flying on bombers he wasn’t a very happy chap I can tell you. But we got on well.
BW: Good.
HH: And the first day there they had to crew-up and at the end of the day there was twelve of us hadn’t crewed-up. That was two crews. So we want to the pub in Loughborough and somehow we got together and we stayed together.
BW: And this was The Golden Fleece in Loughborough. Is that right?
HH: Yeah. And the other crew that were there that night they were killed at the Operational Training Unit. They crashed on take-off and they were all killed. So if I’d gone with the other pilot I wouldn’t be here today.
BW: That’s fate isn’t it?
HH: It is. Yeah.
BW: So you were based in, in Lincolnshire.
HH: Yeah. Elsham Wolds.
BW: Or Leicestershire. About there. Is that right? At that time?
HH: Pardon?
BW: You were based around Leicestershire at that time if you were in Loughborough.
HH: At that time. Yeah. We must. We did our first operation from there.
BW: So where were you, where you were based at this point on — had you joined operations at this stage? Now you’d crewed up.
HH: No. No. We, we went. We did our flying training on Wellingtons. Wellington 1Cs. And at the end of the course we went on an operation to Dunkirk. And it’s all written down there. And when we got over the target we got hit by flak but we managed to get back home. The hydraulic system had gone. So had to wind down the undercarriage. Wind down flaps. And the next morning the engineer came and said that the shell had missed the fuel tank by three inches [laughs] And we wouldn’t be here.
BW: Wow.
HH: Yeah. He had it all. He said three inches.
BW: And so the early part of your flying career then you were flying in Wellingtons.
HH: Yeah. Wellington 1Cs. Yeah.
BW: And from then on, I mean we understand that you went on to fly Lancasters.
HH: On to Lancasters. Yeah.
BW: How many operations did you fly on Wellingtons?
HH: One. Just the one.
BW: Just the one.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And how was the change made, or the decision made for you to fly Lancasters?
HH: Well we, from the Wellingtons we went to train on Halifaxes. And then when the pilot was capable of flying the Halifax we went on to Lancasters. And then when they were satisfied that he was fit then we went to 576 Squadron, Elsham Wolds.
BW: And Elsham Wolds is also in Lincolnshire isn’t it?
HH: Yeah. Lincoln. Lincolnshire.
BW: And how did you find that change from Halifaxes to Lancasters? Was there—
HH: Oh, I loved the Lancaster. Yeah. That was, yeah.
BW: And there are more, are there the same number of crew in the Wellingtons?
HH: Yeah. Same number of crew. Yeah.
BW: Ok. So you were able to keep the same crew together?
HH: Oh yes. The same crew. Yeah.
BW: And what were the living conditions like on base at that time?
HH: Well, there was Nissen huts. I suppose we got used to them. Each Nissen hut got somehow fourteen, somehow twenty beds and you just got used to it. You had, well they just had the basics I suppose.
BW: Just a bed and blankets.
HH: Bed and blankets in them.
BW: And a stove in the middle.
HH: Yeah. Yeah there was three, I forget what they call them now. Three square things made up the mattress. Yeah. And that’s all there was. And the washing facilities were always outside. And in the wintertime there was no heating in the ablutions and so the water was freezing cold. Sometimes frozen altogether. And the heating inside the stoves [pause] well you used what you could. Logs or anything we used to use just to keep the place warm when we were there.
BW: Did you have the hut to yourself or were you sharing with another crew?
HH: We shared. Until we got to the squadron we shared with another crew. When we got to Elsham Wolds we had to wait until they got the Nissen ready. And we got the Nissen and we found out later that we had to wait because the crew that had occupied the Nissen had gone missing. And there was room for two crews actually but we only ever had the one crew in it. The losses was pretty heavy so we only ever had just the one. Just ourselves.
BW: And were you fairly close to the aircraft? Or to the mess?
HH: No. We had to get —
BW: Whereabouts on the base were you?
HH: We all had cycles. It was about a mile, a mile and a half to cycle.
BW: Each day. Just to —
HH: Yeah. Just to get up to the main part.
BW: Right.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. All the living accommodation was spread away from the airfield.
BW: Right. I’m just going to pause the recording for the moment.
[recording paused]
BW: I just paused the recording there to allow us to just put the door to and avoid any background noise. So, continuing on you were at Elsham Wolds then. You were flying Lancasters. And you were living in Nissen huts.
HH: Yeah.
BW: At the edge of the airfield. What were your, or describe for me if you would please a typical sortie for a Lancaster operation from sort of getting ready to do the operation and then flying it and then coming back. What was that like?
HH: Well we, we used to, every morning we went and got breakfast. Went up to the squadron offices and sometimes we would go ahead and do an air test and we’d wait until about lunchtime and then they would say whether the operations were on that night or not. That was usually around lunchtime. And then the briefing was with, there was a navigation briefing first. Just the navigator, the bomb aimer and the pilot there. And we got told the target, the route and I made out the flight plan. And when that was finished we went to the main operations room where the station commander, he would, all the crews were there and he would tell them where the operation was and that was the first they would know. We had known maybe half an hour, three quarters of an hour before but then they only knew then. And they went through the drill — what was happening, what the target was and any questions. And I can’t remember anybody ever asking a question [laughs] and then we went to the aircraft and took off at the allotted time.
BW: It, it’s been said at certain times that aircrew had superstitions. Were there any that you were aware of on your aircraft or in your crew?
HH: Any? Any what?
BW: Superstitions or habits or, guys would take, for example personal items with them as lucky charms. Were there any instances like that?
HH: See that picture behind you.
BW: There’s a, on the wall is a picture of, like a little gollywog.
HH: Yeah.
BW: Was that yours?
HH: Yeah. My wife, when we came back from South Africa my girlfriend, now my wife she bought me that and I wore that every time I flew. For the rest of my flying career I flew with that.
BW: And what’s —
HH: It’s downstairs.
BW: What sort of size is, is that? Is it, it must only have been a little figure was it?
HH: It was — high. Yes. It’s downstairs.
BW: So about three to four inches. Yeah Three or four inches tall.
HH: It just fitted inside the pocket. Yeah.
BW: Right. So that was your lucky charm that you took on a mission.
HH: That was my lucky charm. Yeah.
BW: It seems to have worked.
HH: The lucky charm and a box of matches in that pocket. And twenty cigarettes in the other one [laughs]
BW: About —
HH: I never ever flew again without that mascot. And I flew over nine and a half thousand hours.
BW: Wow. And did the, did your other mates have any similar things?
HH: Yeah. They had similar things but I can’t remember what they were.
BW: Right.
HH: But every one of them had a mascot. Every one [laughs]
BW: So you get into the aircraft. You get into the Lancaster and prepare. What sort of things would you start to do and the others start to do to, to get ready?
HH: Well, we, first of all we went to pick up our parachutes and Mae Wests. And then we got in a truck that took us out to the aircraft. We’d get inside and prepare. Like the pilot and the flight engineer would do all the checks. Checks. Myself and the bomb aimer, you know would get the flight plan and check all the other instruments were there. The wireless op was the same. And the air gunners, they would check all their equipment. And then it would be time to, to go to the take-off point. The take off point was a caravan and they gave a green light to take off. And beside that caravan, every time I can remember there was a crowd of WAAFs there. And airmen but mostly WAAFS would come to see us take off. And, and that, I was thinking back. That was the time that we were most frightened. Take-off time. Every time we talked it was, in case we would crash on take-off.
BW: Because the aircraft is fully loaded and fully fuelled.
HH: Fully loaded. Yeah. Had full fuel and we had a big cookie each. What was it? Two tonnes plus incendiaries. And one night we didn’t take off properly. We went through, past the end of the runway, through the fence at the end of the runway and luckily there was a quarry underneath and we went down in the quarry and came out at Brigg before we started to pull up again.
BW: So if there hadn’t been a quarry at the end of the runway — ?
HH: That was, we would have gone [laughs] That was, that was the worst one. Yeah.
BW: Wow.
HH: Yeah. That quarry saved us. And it was a long time it ever happened because we would fly over Brigg which was quite a few miles away before we started to climb.
BW: And yet the other aircraft would have been similarly fuelled and armed.
HH: Yeah but they —
BW: And they got off all right.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t know what it was. No. No.
BW: So, on the flight out you’re now airborne heading towards the enemy coast. What sort of things are happening in the aircraft at this stage?
HH: Well, on the Lancasters then we had a navigation aid called Gee. You know, where we could fix our position within, you know a half of mile. But once it got outside Britain the signal faded and the Germans were jamming it anyhow. So after that you relied just on, I don’t know the Pathfinders would pass winds and you used to use these winds because they had H2S which gave a map of the ground. But the winds weren’t always accurate. Sometimes a long, long way out. And so we, we just had this Gee. That was all.
BW: And apart from that there was just dead reckoning presumably.
HH: Dead reckoning. That’s all there was. Yeah.
BW: Did you —
HH: But then we got an aircraft. It was fitted with H2S [laughs] That was towards the end and that, that was absolutely different altogether. Yeah.
BW: Made the job a lot easier.
HH: Yeah. It did. Yeah.
BW: So did you have to circle the airfield to form up?
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: Or did you meet the formation over a certain point?
HH: No. We, you were given your take-off time and the first crews took off first so, and then you had time to set course over the airfield. That’s sometimes you’d get airborne and it was twenty, twenty five minutes before you got back over the airfield for the right time to head out. And it was strongly, they put, always had the new crews on there. They should have put the older crews on that but they didn’t. They didn’t in our squadron.
BW: So you had, you had a separate take off time to be airborne.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And you then had to be overhead the airfield at a certain time to set course.
HH: Yeah. All aircraft. Well if it was fairly light you could see the other aircraft. Otherwise you didn’t.
BW: And did —
HH: And I think there were some crashes there too.
BW: And did you see much of the other aircraft throughout the rest of the sorties?
HH: No. No.
BW: Missions.
HH: Not unless they were caught in the searchlights. No.
BW: So —
HH: We did, it was all night stuff we did.
BW: So presumably then very rarely would you actually see other aircraft in the, in the formation.
HH: No. You wouldn’t. No.
BW: How did it feel then? Did it feel as part of a combined effort or did it feel pretty much as a lone crew out there?
HH: Well it just, it was just the sort of thing you did, you know. I don’t know. As I said the only time we saw other aircraft was when they were caught in the searchlights. And over a target, you know when the target was all lit up then you could see other aircraft. Usually then there was full searchlights. But no. In the darkness we never saw anything.
BW: So when you left the shores of England and you were flying out over the Sea were you able to see France or the Dutch coast at all?
HH: No. No. No. It was always dark. Always dark. Never saw the ground.
BW: Did you ever receive any attention from the flak guns on the ground below or from night fighters at all?
HH: We once had night fighters and the rear gunner, he fired his guns but then I don’t know what happened. It just disappeared. That was the only time.
BW: And so when it came to being over the target what would be happening in the aircraft then?
HH: Well, the bomb aimer would be down giving directions. He’d find the [pause] the what do you call it? [laughs] The target indicator. And it was red, blue, whatever it was. And he’d find that and he’d head towards that and give directions to the pilot — left, left, right. And then the flight engineer and the pilot were in their seats. I would get out of mine and I would stand behind the flight engineer to see what was going on. And the, then there’s bombs gone and then they had to wait because the camera would take a photograph. So it was like forty seconds I think till the bombs went down and once the photograph was taken it was bomb doors closed. I would give the pilot the next heading and off we’d go.
BW: And all this time on the run in to the target and the run out you had to keep straight and level.
HH: Oh yes.
BW: One, in order to, to allow the bombs to fall accurately but also to allow the photograph to be taken.
HH: Had to be absolutely straight and level. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Were there times when that wasn’t possible?
HH: The only times if you’d got behind another aircraft and then you’d go bumpety bump. That was awful. But when I was, later when I was in Mosquitoes and doing the bombing that was beautiful. The Mosquito could hold itself nicely. But the Lancaster, no. There was always aircraft in front. It was a bit bumpy, you know.
BW: Just because of the turbulence —
HH: Turbulence. Yeah.
BW: From the aircraft ahead. And so once you’d dropped the, dropped the bombs and turned for home what sort of things were going on then? What —
HH: Well, that was, I think that’s when we lost a lot of the aircraft but I’m not sure because the German fighters then, they were all from over the place, had gone. They knew where the target was and had gone there and there was lots and lots of fighters.
BW: So the gunners were pretty active.
HH: We could, we could see the other aircraft being shot down. We’d see the tracer bullets and this sort of thing. It’s quite a lot of, the worst one was on the Nuremberg raid where we lost ninety five. And on the way out it was a long, straight course and the fighters got up. And I was inside there, I didn’t see anything but the flight engineer was saying, ‘There’s another one,’ and the pilot said, ‘It’s only dummies. It’s only dummies. They’re just shooting dummies. There’s no aircraft there.’ And when we got back to base, at the debriefing he said, ‘And we lost an awful lot of aircraft on the way out.’ Oh [laughs] Trying to keep us from being frightened. Yeah.
BW: When, during the flight back did you begin to feel safe again?
HH: I think we felt safe all the way really. It was just we’d done the job and I was just getting back.
BW: Ok.
HH: I can’t, all I was worried about mostly was when we could pick up the navigation. Gee. You know. To be sure we were in the right place. But I, I don’t think we were. I could be wrong but I don’t think we worried too much going back. You know. It was going out. The very worst time was the take-off. That was, we all agreed that was the worst time.
BW: So once you were in the air the nerves started to settle a bit with doing your job.
HH: You were doing your job then. Yeah.
BW: So, roughly how long would each sortie or each operation have been then?
HH: About six hours. It’s all in there somewhere. Each one. About six hours I think. Yeah. But then after a while we started going to the French targets and that was, you know five hours maybe. And the very last one was on D-Day. We went to Vire Bridge in Northern France. And that was the first time that the bomb aimer had seen where the bombs landed. And two of them landed on the bridge. He was so happy we hit it.
BW: What was the name of the bridge again?
HH: Vire. V I R E.
BW: Oh. I see.
HH: Yeah. My eldest daughter’s, well she’s been going to France for years to a motorbike thing and she brought back a picture of somewhere around. There is a picture of Vire Bridge.
BW: Obviously rebuilt since your bomb aimer put two bombs on it.
HH: Yeah. Funnily enough on Mosquitoes I only once saw where the bombs dropped. It was a Cookie we carried. No, I wasn’t. Sometimes. And I can still see it. Yeah. There was a very, very wide road. A canal running along the side and a building with a massive door at the side. The bomb landed in the middle of this so it must have blown the door, must have blown the side off the factory. That’s what we were aiming for. The factory. That was the only once.
BW: And the bomb hit. It landed on the road. Or landed in the —
HH: Landed on the road. Yeah. It was halfway between the building and the canal.
BW: But it still blew the factory down.
HH: It would have. It was only about ten fifteen yards from the wall so it must have blown it right, right out. And the factory too, I hope.
BW: And when you returned to base after a successful operation what then happened? You mentioned debriefing.
HH: The debriefing. Yeah. You went in front of the intelligence officers and they, they mainly the questions, you know. They wanted to know anything and we just told them about the trip.
BW: And what sort of questions would they ask?
HH: Oh, about the Pathfinders. Did they drop the right, did they drop the right colours and that? Did you think they were in the right place? And this sort of thing. About the timing. Did you see any enemy aircraft and enemy gunfire? That was the sort of things they wanted to know. Just the defences.
BW: And once you’d had the debriefing? What? What then?
HH: Oh, we went back. Handed in our parachutes and Mae Wests and then went for a meal in the mess.
BW: How did you spend your spare time between operations?
HH: Well, we were at Elsham Wolds and it was quite, quite a long way to, Brigg was the nearest place. And Scunthorpe was beyond that. And we’d, initially we’d all go out together, all seven of us and we’d go to Brigg and drink in the pub there. And we had bicycles so we’d cycle there and cycle back. And then the pilot got commissioned so he sort of left us then and we split. We did the same as before. And then the bomb aimer and the flight engineer, they met a couple of people and they went to their home. You know and they sometimes stayed overnight if they could. And the two air gunners, they went on their bikes and they cycled all the way up to the Humber and they went together. So there was the wireless operator and myself and we just went our own way to the pub and the dance hall and back. That was it. Go to Scunthorpe. Got the train to Scunthorpe and get the last train back.
BW: And were you on ops every night or were there periods —
HH: Oh no. No. No. No. Very seldom it was two nights in a row. Sometimes there’d be a week’s gap or something. And every four days, every four weeks we had a week’s leave. But because of the losses sometimes we got leave every three weeks. Yeah. The losses were pretty heavy at the time.
BW: How did you spend your leave when you got the opportunity?
HH: With my wife. She, we lived not far apart in the village and we used to go out dancing and that sort of thing. That was all. In the summertime, well in the summertime then we had the bikes and we went biking, walking. But in the wintertime that was all there was because she was working all the time.
BW: How did you meet?
HH: Well we lived, my father and mother, my father was in the Royal Marines during the First World War and my mother was in the Women’s Royal Air Force near [unclear] in 1919. And they both lived in ‘Trose and they both went as nurses at the asylum, Montrose Royal Asylum. They both went as nurses. They met and got married and then I came along. And in that asylum, it was a small community and Mary’s father was the grieve. I don’t know, the head farmer. He was in charge of the farm. It was a great big farm. A really huge farm. So, you know, all the kids, we used to all play together and that in the grounds of the asylum. That’s how we met.
BW: And so you’d knew each other for a while before the war started and before you joined up.
HH: Oh knows, we played together and her brothers and that since we were five years old, you know, so. But it wasn’t until I was going overseas that I had a few days leave and I met her. And we just had a couple of days, you know going out and then we wrote and then it was another about fourteen months I think before we met again. Yeah.
BW: And how did you re-meet? When did you —
HH: Oh we kept writing all the time. Yeah. And then we got married in 1947 because I was going to be posted to an airfield in London, or near London. And I’d phoned the adjutant and he said accommodation was no problem. My wife would get a job. That was no problem. He guaranteed everything. So we got married. Went on honeymoon. Three days later we were going out the hotel and the porter came around and said I was wanted on the phone. I thought, ‘Oh. There’s only, there’s only the Air Ministry know I’m here.’ So I went and they said, ‘You’re posted to Singapore. You’re leaving in one week’s time.’ And so I went off to Singapore and at that time you weren’t considered married until you were twenty five. Well I was only twenty three. So it was eighteen months before she could join me.
BW: Just because of the service rules.
HH: Oh yeah. Eighteen months.
BW: So just, I’d just like to go back. You mentioned about flying Mosquitoes. At what stage during your career, your service career did you change to Mosquitoes?
HH: Well, when we finished operations on Lancasters I was posted to a Canadian run Operational Training Unit. They were flying Wellingtons. It was run by Canadians for Canadians but in this country. And the only RAF people there were the station commander, a group captain and a wireless operator. He’d done a tour of operations himself. But we were the only RAF personnel. And instead of lecturing I used to just to go up, fly with them in an aircraft with the trainees. And that was all that was done so I got fed up with this and I went and saw the station commander and said I wanted a posting. And he said, ‘No. No.’ And every Monday morning I went. In the end he said, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I’ve arranged for you to go before a commissioning board.’ And so myself and the wireless operator went before this commissioning board and got our commissions. And the next day I went to see the group captain [laughs] He said, ‘Now, don’t tell me.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ And a week later he, he arranged for me to go on Mosquitoes. That was good.
BW: And did you move onto that squadron on your own or were there any mates that went with you?
HH: No. Just on my —
BW: Just on your own.
HH: Just on my own. Went to the, what do they call it where you all met? The pilots and navigators. And I crewed-up with this George Nunn. He crewed-up with me. He picked me [laughs] And so we flew together. We flew on Oxfords at first during this training and then on to Mosquitoes. And then on to the squadron. And then when the war finished in Europe I had a navigator friend, he was from the West Indies and he was going to London to meet his own people. So, I went down to London with him to this pub. It was full of West Indians and, but we had a good time. And then they said that 105 Squadron, Mosquito squadron was going to start training for the Far East. I thought — oh. So, I went back to thingummybob and saw the wing commander and I said I would like to transfer to 105 Squadron. And he went up in the air because he was organising this sort of, what do they call it [pause] West Indies. A big aircraft thing. Commercial aircraft. He was going to be the boss and he was looking for people to fly. And so I kept on and he said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘You haven’t got a chance going by yourself. You have to find a pilot.’ Well, George wasn’t keen because he wanted to go back to his old job but when he, when he heard that he said, ‘Right. Away we go.’ So we got posted to 105 Squadron. And we were doing this, this new bombing aid they had. And we were ready. Just to be ready to go to the Far East when the war finished.
BW: But you got, you got out there it must have been late 1945 then.
HH: Yeah.
BW: In that case.
HH: Yeah. So 1945 finished with Mosquitoes and I went on the training on what they called BABS. It was a blind landing aid. And we went to various Transport Command stations and taught them how to fly this. And then I got, got married and then Singapore on 48 Squadron.
BW: And what were you flying there?
HH: Dakotas.
BW: How long were you out in the Far East?
HH: Just over two and a half years. I flew a lot to Hong Kong. India. Bangkok. A couple of times to Australia. It was quite good. A good trip. Yeah.
BW: How did you find the change from navigating in Lancasters to Mosquitoes? Both aircraft have different, slightly different reputations.
HH: Yes. Well —
BW: What was the experience like for you?
HH: The big, the big thing with the Mosquito was the space. It was the pilot sitting, like a pilot would sit, sit there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: And I would sit here [laughs] and he had all these instruments in front of him. And just down below was the bomb bay. So that, you know, after the space in the Lancaster, you know, a table this size you just had a thing you picked up like that.
BW: A notepad.
HH: It was a chart and everything there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: So it was quite different.
BW: It seems different in the sense that when you were in the Lancaster you would be working as a single navigator.
HH: Yeah.
BW: But yet, when you were in the Mosquito you would be doing two roles because you were the bomb aimer as well.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, we got trained on bomb aiming. Yeah. We got, we did our training, bomb aiming training on Mosquitoes and I remember flying over somewhere in Lincolnshire one day bomb aiming and something happened going towards the target and something happened and the bomb went. The bomb released. And [laughs] you saw it and it landed in a farm yard. So we went back and, you know reported it because there was maybe something wrong with the bombing. Anyhow, the next day we got a phone message from a farmer. He invited us all out for a drink [laughs] Because they’d gone to the farm, they’d apologised. He wanted to know who they were and he invited us all out. Not us but the whole squadron for a drink. So I don’t know what had happened. If he had insurance or something like that.
BW: Was it a practice bomb that had dropped? Or —
HH: A practice bomb. Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Fifteen pounds. You know.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And it just happened to come off the —
HH: Yeah.
BW: Off the release and into the farmyard. What sort of operations were you flying in Mosquitoes then? And how, how different were they to those on the Lancasters?
HH: Well the Mosquitoes we did, I think it was fifteen trips to Berlin. We did nineteen trips altogether and fifteen to Berlin. And it [pause] it was, I don’t know. In some ways it was easier that a Lancaster trip. We never worried we’d take-off. That never worried us. And it was just a case of getting to the target and it was a lot shorter time. Four and a half hours to Berlin and back instead of nine hours. And now, you used to get down, do the bombing and never had any problems.
BW: Were you part of the Pathfinder Force on Mosquitoes?
HH: No. No. Not the Path, no.
BW: Or were you —
HH: We were just ordinary. Yeah. No, we had the Pathfinders in front of us. They dropped the target indicators. And it was, no, it was, I don’t know it was just the two of us there sitting like this, close together. And sitting in there somewhere we left Berlin one night and we were always they always got coned by the searchlights. Every time we went there. And I just, I used to like that because I could see inside the bomb bay, you know. See the bombs and everything. We never minded. And we were coming back out one night and the searchlights, you know and it was no good trying to dodge them and suddenly the searchlights stopped. They all dropped. And I looked. There’s was a blister at the side and I looked behind and I could see lights. Red and green lights and I thought, I said to George, I said, ‘There’s some silly bugger going in there with his lights on.’ I said, I said, ‘No. He’s overtaken us. I said, ‘Direct to starboard. Go.’ And George, and they were pffft. The cannon shells came right across. And one of them took the top off the aircraft. We went down and the searchlights had come on. George got blinded and we were going whoooa and essentially —
BW: Apparently down.
HH: There were, the heavy aircraft were bombing, I forget the name of the place and we could visualise that and he turned and got the aircraft right and then looked at the altimeter and we were only about fifteen hundred feet above the ground and we’d come from twenty four thousand [laughs] Oh God. And anyhow we made it back. And it was years later when I was at the RAF flying college I was reading about, you know this thing and on that night, at that time, at that place, this German fighter that shot down a Mosquito [laughs]. I thought that’s great. It was the exact time and everything as that.
BW: If, if that’s the same account as I read about that was a raid over Potsdam. Near Berlin. Is that right?
HH: No. No. That was. We were at Berlin actually itself.
BW: Berlin itself.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And is it, was it right that the report said it was a Messerschmitt 262. It was a jet. A German jet.
HH: Yeah.
BW: So they were using those as night fighters.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And, and you were very lucky not to have put his bullets into the cockpit.
HH: Yeah. Just lucky we dived in time and just in the, oh and one, one of the bullets had gone through the tail fin. Right through the middle. The next day the ground crew there were sticking sticks through it [laughs] I thought, oh my God, that was close. Yeah. It was nice.
BW: I believe on that, on that particular raid on, as that was happening and you were spinning down you ended up upside down and you were on the, on the canopy.
HH: On the top. Yeah.
BW: So you were being pulled out of your seat.
HH: Yeah. Oh yeah.
BW: While the aircraft is upside down and you were on the canopy trying to get your parachute together. Is that right?
HH: I undid my harness to, to go down and get my parachute and open the bomb doors. Open the exit place. And it wouldn’t open. And so I got back and then I was sitting on the seat and she went pffft. Yeah. On our first Lancaster raid we never got to the target. We lost two of the engines and we had a full bomb load and a fuel load so we turned back and headed for The Wash to jettison the bombs. And the bomb aimer thought, you know, we thought well in case anything happens we’d better get ready to bale out. He couldn’t open the doors. Just, it was the pressure and that, it just wouldn’t open. So if anything had happened we couldn’t have got out. But we jettisoned the bombs over The Wash and then jettisoned some of the fuel because it was a tremendous amount of fuel we carried.
BW: But you managed to land safely.
HH: Oh yeah. Yeah. We did. Yeah.
BW: And were you ever caught in searchlights on other raids as well? You mentioned —
HH: Oh yeah. Lots of times. Yeah. Especially on Mosquitoes. Every time we went near the target they picked us up because they had a lot, a lot of searchlights then. But on the Lancaster I think there was only two or three times we got caught in searchlights. Just for a short time.
BW: Did the pilot have to take evasive action?
HH: Well in the Mosquito, we stopped because we couldn’t get out of them. They were, you know coming from all sides and it didn’t matter. On a Lancaster he could get out of them. Yeah.
BW: But you were never intercepted by fighters except for the, for the one occasion.
HH: Except for that once. Yeah. And very lucky.
BW: Were there other raids over France that you, that you recall? You mention one on the —
HH: Vire. Yeah.
BW: Vire Bridge.
HH: The one, the worst one of all was [pause] oh my memory. Starts with an M. It was the marshalling yards in the north of France. Now, what Bomber Command didn’t realise was that the Germans were sending troops up to the battlefield and the big anti-aircraft was based at this railway station. And we went in. If I remember rightly it was ninety five Lancasters from Number 1 Group. And we went in and just it was murder actually. And I think we lost forty nine. It’s all there somewhere. This stuff. Ninety five and we lost about half of them. That German anti-aircraft unit was stationed there and we were, for the Lancaster we were flying, you know at fifteen thousand feet. Which is ideal for them. Yeah. That was a tremendous loss.
BW: There’s a lot of reports I’ve seen of the German anti-aircraft fire being extremely accurate. It was always at the right height.
HH: Oh yeah. Yeah.
BW: But you never got hit yourself.
HH: No. Just that once in a Wellington. You know, that first flight. That’s the only time we got hit.
BW: You mentioned about flying on or around D-Day. Were you flying operations in support of D-Day? Do you remember anything about the build up?
HH: We didn’t know anything about it. D-Day was the 6th of June. We went out to a target in Northern France on the 5th of June but we didn’t know. Nobody knew it was about D-Day. And coming back, on the H2S on the Channel I saw the Channel was full of ships. And I said, ‘It’s the invasion. It’s D-Day,’ and we went back to, to Elsham and they said it’s D-Day in the morning and we just all laughed. And I said we saw them, you know, on the radar. And of course it was. Next day was D-Day. It was tremendous seeing all these ships. Yeah. But then we did our last trip then and that was it.
BW: And so very soon after that you finished flying on Lancasters. Just after D-Day.
HH: Yeah. On D-Day. That was our last trip. Yeah.
BW: And then you changed then to flying Mosquitoes.
HH: Now the pilot, he went back on Lancasters in ’45. Mid-upper gunner and the rear gunner, they both went back on operations ’45. But the wireless operator he just got to a squadron when the war finished. And the flight engineer, he didn’t want to do anymore because he’d got married.
BW: And did they let him? Let him —
HH: He was training. Yeah. He was. Yeah. Oh yeah. He spent his time training.
BW: But all the way through that you managed to keep together as a crew.
HH: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then we met again in 1978. It’s all written down there. It’s a long long story. It was a young chap. He went to Bristol to see the boat racing there. And he was staying the night in a pub and he saw an axe hanging up behind the bar and he asked the barman. He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I used to break up aircraft after the war. During the war and after the war. And that’s from one of the aircraft.’ And he says, ‘Oh which aircraft?’ And he said, ‘Oh it’s got on it.’ And the bloke went and found out and it was our aircraft we used to fly in. And he lived in Kent. And he went to an air gunner’s meeting and met our air gunner and said, ‘Do you know, and it was our axe.’ And so from there you know we all got together then. It’s all written down there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Bit by bit we wrote. And then they formed the Elsham Wolds Association. That’s how they got in touch with me from there.
BW: And were there more than one squadron based at Elsham Wolds?
HH: Yeah. Two squadrons there. 576. Was it 103 Squadron, I think? Yeah. I’m not sure. I think it was 103.
BW: And were they both Lancaster squadrons?
HH: Yeah. Yeah.
[pause]
BW: And so it seems you’ve had a pretty eventful and successful career and managed to avoid the, sort of impact of anti-aircraft fire.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: And night fighters.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And all the sort of other dangers that people experienced in, and you —
HH: I was really lucky. Yeah. Really, really lucky.
BW: Did you ever know any crews that became prisoners? That had been shot down over France?
HH: Yeah.
BW: Were any captured?
HH: I think it may be in there. If not I’ll —
BW: Ok.
HH: I tried to, there was thirty two of us passed out in South Africa. At the end of the war there was only eleven of us alive and three of these was prisoners of war. I contacted you know because like the magazines, aircraft magazines they used to print losses you know. Who was killed and that. And I used to keep a look out for it all. Yeah. There’s eleven and I met, you know I met all eleven eventually.
BW: So you’ve done a lot of work to keep track of those guys that you met.
HH: Oh yeah. Well that’s —
BW: You keep in touch with them.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And that chance reunion in a pub down south with one of your, was it a bomb aimer who saw the axe over the, over the, at the pub?
HH: No. No. It was another bloke. Just a chap who was out there.
BW: I see.
HH: He lived in Kent and he went, he went to the Air Gunner’s Association because he thought maybe somebody knows about this axe. And he was right. Our mid-upper gunner did. And so it was he was he that formed the Society at Elsham Wolds. John. He’s been here once or twice. John Wiltshire. That was his name.
BW: John Wiltshire. And is he still around? Has he passed?
HH: I don’t know. I don’t know.
BW: Right [pause] Something I’m intrigued about if I could just ask. It’s your nickname. You have a nickname. Sam. Is that right?
HH: Yeah. Well —
BW: How did that come about?
HH: Well when we were going out to South Africa on the boat we used to have drills. You know. We had rifles and bayonets. We used to do drills and one day we were doing a drill and I dropped my rifle. And the course comedian, of course he says, ‘Sam, Sam pick up thy rifle.’ That was a song that was going at the time.
BW: I see.
HH: That stuck with me ever since. ‘Sam, Sam pick up thy rifle.’ [pause] Then when I went to that Canadian OTU I got Jock then. Jock Harris.
BW: Jock Harris. And you have the same surname of course.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: As Bomber Harris.
HH: Yeah. The RAF.
BW: Was that ever put to you? The same nickname or —
HH: No. No. No.
BW: The RAF only had room for one Bomber Harris.
HH: Yeah. Only room for one.
[pause]
BW: Are there any other sort of memorable operations or, or events that perhaps spring to mind?
HH: Let’s think. No. I think we had it very easy really. [pause] No. The first Mosquito operation was fogged-in at base. It was fogged-in and we were running out of fuel and the pilot, George, he’d seen an airfield further back so we went back. We found this airfield and we were just, just wait to land and the engine stopped. Went bump on the runway and the fire brigade and that came out and got us out, you know. Bundled us out the aircraft and left the aircraft on the runway. And Lancasters, it was a Lancaster base and they were circling around the top because they couldn’t land. So we went and got debriefed and went to the mess and were having a cup of cocoa or something and there was a great thump on my shoulders. And I looked around. It was a chap who I lived next door to, we were born within three weeks of each other. We lived next door to each for about fourteen or fifteen years and he was on the one of the Lancasters. And he said, ‘Is that your heap of wood lying out there?’ [laughs]
BW: Is that your heap of wood lying out there?
HH: Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Jim Cassell. He’d got a mighty slap [laughs]
BW: What a way to meet up after living all that time next door to each other.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And then bumping into each other.
HH: Yeah.
BW: Literally in the, in the debriefing room. Which was your favourite aircraft, do you think to fly?
HH: The Lancaster during the wartime. But after that the Britannia was a beautiful aircraft. Yeah. That was the best one. But during the war the Lancaster. Yeah.
BW: You mentioned when you went out to serve with 105 Squadron in the Far East and you continued to stay out in the Far East for about two and a half years. At what stage then did you leave the RAF and what prompted the move?
HH: Oh 1968. I went to [pause] let me see. I left 48 Squadron. Came back to this country. I did a course, instructor’s course and then I instructed people to become navigators. In two places. And then I went to a place where they were training pilots on Meteors. I was a navigation officer and all sort of things. Then I went to RAF flying college as an instructor and was there for a while. Then went on Transport Command on Hastings, Britannias and VC10s.
BW: So you pretty well stayed on multi engine aircraft.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: All the way, all the way through. Even though when you were instructing navigators for Meteors.
HH: Yeah.
BW: You weren’t flying Meteors yourself.
HH: Oh yeah. I flew in Meteors.
BW: You were. Right. You flew Meteors as well.
HH: Yeah. I, one of the blokes, he was a Polish bloke and at that time there were at the Farnborough thing. You know flying an aircraft straight up and then it would sort of come down, you know so he said, he got me flying. He said, ‘We’re going to try that today’ [laughs] We went up and the thing toppled over backwards and I was going to, I said, ‘I’m going to eject,’ and, ‘No. No. No,’ and he pulled it out then.
BW: So instead of going up nice and vertical and coming back tail down there the same axis you fell out backwards.
HH: Yeah. That’s the last time he tried it. Yeah. And I flew with Gus Walker on Canberras at the flying college. We did a trip to the North Pole from Norway but we ran out of oxygen just about seventy miles from the North Pole and we had to come back and we descended to the oxygen level and we landed at this place in Norway, Bardufoss. And as we landed we ran out of fuel and bump. She came down with a crash.
BW: You were very lucky there again.
HH: There. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Just made it home in time.
HH: Just made it.
BW: With no fuel.
HH: Yeah. Gus Walker. He was a really nice bloke. Gus. We were up to the top there once before and the Canberra couldn’t get back in. We were going to land then further south and there was a Hastings there and no pilot except Gus and he’d never flown a Hastings before [laughs] And he says to us, he says, ‘Will it be alright if I fly it? And we said, ‘Yeah. Yeah.’ And he flew it down there. Flew it to Oslo. It was alright. One of the funny things was when we was on Britannias there was a scare over Germany where a German aircraft or something had buzzed a civil aircraft. And somehow it got arranged that newspaper people would come and fly in a Britannia and this sort of thing would be, would be happening. And I was a navigator and Gus Walker was in charge of this lot. And he came up to the flight deck and we were chatting there and forgot all the fact that everything was going through to all the passengers as well [laughs] And then I looked up and I said to the pilot, ‘That’s not the airfield. We’re at the wrong airfield. Another airfield across there.’ And then I thought oh my. And Gus Walker went back and when we landed all the press came out and then one of them come across. He said, ‘That was good. I listened to all that. That was really really good. I enjoyed that.’ But nothing came out in the papers happily.
BW: So you managed to find the right airfield eventually.
HH: Yeah. Gus Walker. Yeah.
BW: Did you come across any famous pilots in the RAF at all? There were well known guys. People like Gibson flew Mosquitoes. Did you ever come across —
HH: Douglas Bader. I met him twice. Once when he was doing the instructing on, just after the war. I met him down south somewhere. And then when I was on 48 Squadron in Singapore he, I don’t know, he came in there to the mess. I don’t know. I can’t remember. And he recognized me in the crowd and I thought [laughs] and everybody’s [pause] yeah. He was a nice bloke.
BW: Ok. Is there anything that you would like to show us on the computer at all. But I think —
HH: I think you’ve got it —
BW: It might be a case of printing it.
HH: I think it’s all on there.
BW: Ok.
HH: Wherever you have it. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: It’s all there. I hope. But if there’s anything else just phone. I’ll get it.
BW: Ok.
HH: I’ll tell you about these logbook pages.
[pause]
BW: Just going to have a look at some logbook pages.
[pause]
BW: We’re just, we’re just looking at one of the logbooks. Would you just describe what it says on the citation there? It’s dated 8th of October 1946. Is that right? At the bottom there.
HH: On 8th October 1946. Yeah. Something Headquarter 46 Group. Letter reference 46 at C250 something, something dated 20th of August 1946.
BW: What does the, so it says at the top. “Incidences of avoidance by exceptional flying skill and judgement of loss or damage to aircraft or personnel.” And it says, “Flying Officer HST Harris DFC, whilst navigation instructor on an Oxford aircraft EB798 during — ”
HH: “Exercise.”
BW: “Exercise.”
HH: “On eureka.”
BW: “On eureka.”
[pause]
HH: “Eureka homings”
BW: “Eureka homings from St Mawgan.”
HH: “From St Mawgan. The starboard engine failed and was feathered by — ”
BW: “By his skill.”
HH: “In operating the radar screen he enabled his pilot to carry out the shortened BABS. Let down.”
BW: “Guidance.”
HH: “And made a good landing in conditions, bad weather and poor visibility after breaking cloud at two hundred and fifty feet with the runway immediately ahead. By his knowledge of his radio aids and his skill in the operation of these he helped his pilot to save the aircraft from —"
BW: “Damage. Saved the aircraft from damage and the crews from —"
HH: “Injury.”
BW: “Injury.”
HH: That’s a long time ago [laughs]
BW: So that —
HH: 1946.
BW: Yeah. That is a citation that was presumably made into your logbook for skill in flying and avoiding an accident and injury to crew.
HH: Yeah.
BW: That’s very unique.
HH: That’s this one here.
BW: Well done.
HH: In six —
BW: So, 608 Squadron.
HH: Downham Market.
BW: Downham Market.
HH: That’s operations. Yeah.
BW: I’ll just pause again while you look for another document.
[pause]
BW: So —
HH: This is a bit here.
BW: So, for your services you were awarded the DFC. Was that because it was standard for aircrew or —
HH: No. It’s —
BW: For people to be awarded after so many missions or was there an act of gallantry.
HH: There wasn’t anything definite. But all pilots, when they did a tour of operations, all pilots automatically got a DFC. But I did fifty operations and I suppose that’s why I got it.
BW: Because you’d done over fifty ops.
HH: Hmmn?
BW: Because you’d done over fifty ops.
HH: No. The war finished then. No. Yeah, I could have done a lot more. Yeah.
BW: It’s quite something though to have come through so many operations. As you said before particularly because so many aircrew were killed during that time.
HH: It was just less than two months ago on the television they were doing some sort of programme and they said only one aircrew member in forty [pause] only one aircrew member in a hundred was it, survived forty operations. I forget the exact number now. I know that was forty operations and there were very few people.
BW: Yeah.
HH: That had done that.
BW: Yeah. That’s quite something. That’s quite an excellent sort of achievement really.
HH: See these things here. You’ve seen them [pause] This. My navigation logs. That’s, I think, I don’t know which aircraft that is. Put that other light on.
BW: So these are on, let’s have a look.
[pause]
BW: So these navigation logs are also recorded in —
HH: Yes.
BW: Wartime service so did you have to fill out effectively two logs.
HH: Some of them. Some of them are. Not all of them I don’t think. I’m trying to see.
BW: You Ok?
HH: Yeah. Where’s the switch? Oh, it’s up here [pause] The light switch is on there.
BW: So did navigators have to fill out another log as well as their own flying log?
HH: No.
BW: For operations.
HH: No.
BW: Or was this just done as an instructor?
HH: This light doesn’t work now. Oh wait a minute. Maybe it does. No. It’s broken. That’s why it’s off. I think the bulbs gone. Yeah. It’s —
BW: It’s alright.
[pause]
BW: Ok.
HH: You’ve got that all on there.
BW: So these records are all on the disc as well.
HH: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: It’ll take a lot of printing out.
BW: It looks like it. Yeah.
HH: And that’s.— [pause]
BW: Ok. I’ll just pause the recording while we look through for the documents.
[recording paused]
What I’ll do I’ll end the recording there. We’ve had a look through some documents and photographs of your time in the Far East. So all that’s left to do is, on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre is just to say thank you very much for your time Mr Harris. It’s very good of you.
HH: You’ll find a lot of things in these.
BW: Thank you.
HH: These CDs. Yeah.
BW: Yeah. We’ll arrange to get your CDs and documents copied by one of the other volunteers. They will send somebody out but they weren’t able to do that today. So we’ll sort that out for you. Thank you.
[recording paused]
BW: Very much so. Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Harry Harris
Creator
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Brian Wright
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-09
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHarrisHST150909
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:19:59 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Harry ‘Sam’ Harris grew up in Scotland and volunteered for the Air Force. He trained as a navigator in South Africa. On the penultimate day of his training he flew over a multitude of lifeboats bearing the survivors of a torpedoed ship. The next day he flew over a U-Boat above water and the pilot turned the aircraft to attack it. On return to Great Britain he was posted to 576 Squadron at RAF Elsham Wolds. After his first tour he wanted to continue to fly and was posted to a Mosquito Squadron. He discusses being attacked by a Me 262. He notes that of the thirty two men who passed out with him in South Africa only eleven were left after the war and three of those had been prisoners of war. After the war Harry stayed in the RAF and flew in a wide variety of aircraft.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Norway
South Africa
Arctic Ocean--North Pole
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Berlin
Scotland--Montrose
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1944
1945
1946
105 Squadron
576 Squadron
608 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
briefing
C-47
control caravan
crewing up
debriefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
fear
Gee
Halifax
Lancaster
love and romance
Me 262
Meteor
military living conditions
military service conditions
Mosquito
navigator
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
promotion
RAF Downham Market
RAF Elsham Wolds
service vehicle
submarine
superstition
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10463/PLaphamR1521.2.jpg
fa2cb70d43d2d56b7a73f3935cf08c85
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Lapham, Rosemary
R Lapham
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Lapham, R
Description
An account of the resource
100 items. An oral history interview with Rosemary Lapham, the daughter of Roy Chadwick, family correspondence, congratulations on being honoured, personal documentation as well as photographs of family, acquaintances and aircraft. The collection also contains a thank you letter from Barnes Wallis to Roy Chadwick and a note from Arthur Harris to Robert Saundby about the in-feasibility of the Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation, some conceptual aircraft drawings and other mementos.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lapham and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
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2015-06-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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576 Squadron
Description
An account of the resource
Over 120 airmen in four rows in front of a Lancaster. Titled '576 Squadron June 1945'
Date
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1945-06
Format
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One b/w photograph
Type
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Photograph
Identifier
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PLaphamR1521
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Temporal Coverage
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1945-06
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
576 Squadron
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/708/10106/ABerrieD161031.1.mp3
9ca35d7198f5ebebcfee1fba69629f9f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Berrie, David
D Berrie
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Warrant Officer David Berrie (b. 1922, 1368457 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 576 and 300 Squadrons and Coastal Command.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-31
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Berrie, D
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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BB: Ok, here we are. Right, so, if you would just like to speak into that, from the very first day you thought you were gonna join the Royal Air Force right away, just, no just, just, it’ll, you can just leave it like that
DB: Oh yes. You’ve ever seen, that’s a piece of the aircraft, my own aircraft shot down
BB: A bit of Lancaster, oh
DB: Just the last four or five years
BB: [unclear] a bit of paint on it. I’ll have a look at that later. So, if you’d just like to speak into the microphone [unclear] and I’ll make the notes the things to ask you later, thank you
DB: Just want sort of detailed from when I went to Bomber Command
BB: Yeah. No, when you joined up, how you joined up, did you go, were you enlisted or did you volunteered, from the day you said I’m gonna join the RAF, that will be fine, thank you.
DB: I just, [unclear] understand, I’m very deaf, even with the
BB: If you want to put it on your lap there
DB: [unclear] even with the hearing aid [unclear]
BB: Well, I’ll talk to you when
DB: I’ll give my rank and then
BB: Yes
DB: David Berrie
BB: Don’t worry
DB: David Berrie, [file missing], Stirling [file missing]. I joined the Air Force in February 1941 and I joined up, enlisted then I went to Blackpool for training as a wireless operator. From there went on to Compton Bassett in Wiltshire for [unclear] training
BB: So, Blackpool was the
DB: Initial Training Unit
BB: ITU and you were there, you were taught all the basic stuff, you were given your uniform, given all your injections, and marching, parading, and all that, and how long did that last for?
DB: Well, I think the
BB: A month, something like that?
DB: I think there were six weeks [unclear]
BB: Six weeks, ok. And then you obviously managed to pass that and [unclear] all your problems, then they sent you off to Compton Bassett
DB: For about three months
BB: Three months, now, was that at them, was that an OTU?
DB: No
BB: No, that was your training for
DB: And then, from there I went to Aberdeen, [unclear] Aberdeen, which was an operational station
BB: Right.
DB: At Coastal Command.
BB: Right.
DB: Served as a wireless operator there, quite often on the main frequencies [unclear] squadron
BB: How long did you spend in [unclear]?
DB: Went from September I think till about March, that was six months.
BB: That was what, 194
DB: ‘41
BB: ’41, ok.
DB: And as I went from there, I was posted to Ireland, Northern Ireland, again as a radio operator, wireless operator
BB: Was that Ballykelly?
DB: No, wasn’t [unclear],
BB: Alright, alright.
DB: It was more or less like
BB: A signal’s
DB: Yeah, a signal
BB: Ok
DB: For picking up
BB: Yeah, I understand, so you were there [unclear]
DB: I was there possibly three months, can’t really remember cause I moved [unclear] a bit, was country areas
BB: Right
DB: We lived in old farmhouses, some had a Nissan hut with a sentry come near observatory, you know, observer corps type of thing, and that was there and then called up for aircrew, I got sent to the Isle of Man, Jurby on the Isle of Man.
BB: Right, you were called up rather than volunteer.
DB: Well, I volunteered.
BB: Volunteered, then you were called up, ok. And you went to RAF Jurby. Right. How long were you at Jurby for?
DB: I did the air gunnery course, got my brevy there at Jurby.
BB: Right.
DB: And then, from there I was posted to Pwllheli Penrhos in North Wales, which was only a very short period because we, there were no runways
BB: No
DB: And so we moved over to the aerodrome at Llandudno, [unclear] end of the [unclear] straights and spent a long time in training command, quite some time, which involved flying two day tours, one day and one the next alternatively a week about and then
BB: In Ansons?
DB: Pardon?
BB: Ansons? Avro Ansons?
DB: Pardon?
BB: What were you flying, what aircraft were you flying?
DB: Ansons.
BB: Ansons. Flying classroom.
DB: And quite reliable, they were very reliable.
BB: Yes,I mean, they were the main stay of Coastal Command for a long time
DB: We were flying two-day tours, one day and then one the next, one was seven till ten and then other one took off at ten and was, and they did a three, that’s all but just as [unclear] stay in the air
BB: Wireless operators and air gunners and navigators
DB: And then we were instructing wireless, we were instructing trainee wireless operators and the pilot was instructing a navigator,
BB: Ok.
DB: So we were both known as start pilots and start wireless operators.
BB: Ok, thank you, And then you must at some phase
DB: Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
DB: All of a sudden we got, it was a peculiar thing because they did a trawl looking for wireless operators, they were willing to train up as navigators quickly, flying Mosquitos
BB: Right, ok.
DB: And then all of a sudden, I was cancelled and I got sent to [unclear] became, it was [unclear] and then it changed it I think because it was too close to High [unclear]
BB: Right
DB: And then there was a sort of episode where somebody committed suicide
BB: Oh dear
DB: And it happened to be named [unclear] so it was a Canadian crew or something and everything went well cause the pilot decided to raise a question [unclear] and of course the Canadian government held onto but when they notified the relatives in Canada, they were very, very annoyed that these people volunteered, come all the way here and got killed and somebody committed suicide and they blamed us we should have picked that up. While the officers [unclear], so then we did OTU and normally we
BB: So, this suicide, this guy was flying an aircraft with people in it when he decided just to crash it or something
DB: Pardon?
BB: This suicide
DB: Well
BB: There was more people killed
DB: There was
BB: [unclear] aircraft
DB: He crashed the whole aircraft
BB: Alright, that’s what I was saying
DB: Near Shrewsbury
BB: Oh, ok. So, it was [unclear] an Anson.
DB: I think he tried to put it into the [unclear]
BB: Oh
DB: Which was a well-known landmark
BB: Ok. Dear, dear. Anyway, after that, what happened?
DB: Well, we were then to OTU, we went to conversion unit, heavy conversion unit at Sandtoft and of course Sandtoft near Scunthorpe, [unclear] Doncaster.
BB: Yeah.
DB: [unclear] we clashed twice in twenty-four hours
BB: So, you went from the Anson to the OTU
DB: Yes
BB: Where it was Wellingtons, the flying [unclear]?
DB: Yes
BB: [unclear]
DB: The OTU was peplow
BB: Yeah, but what was the aircraft?
DB: Wellingtons
BB: Wellingtons and then you graduated from Wellingtons, went to the heavy conversion unit, where you went on to Stirlings, and Halifaxes and Lancasters
DB: [unclear]. The other thing I [unclear] going to the conversion unit because of the accommodation difficulties, we [unclear] four or five aerodromes in a few weeks
BB:
DB: Lindum, Hemswell, [unclear], there was a [unclear] officer, there was quite a lot of [unclear] actually sat on the Sandtorft [unclear] Christmas 34, 43 [unclear]
BB: Right.
DB: And then well, as I say, that was conversion on the Halifaxes
BB: Halifaxes
DB: Up to the heavy conversion unit, and then we went to Hemswell, back to Hemswell for conversion to Lancasters
BB: They called the Lancaster finishing school. Right, so, when the time you got to the Lancasters, it would have been sort of Mid ’43 or something like that?
DB: [unclear] when we were finished, I think we went to the squadron, about 576 Squadron about May sometime in ‘44
BB: That was 576
DB: No, 576 was at Elsham Wolds, of course, and then we got transferred to the Polish squadron
BB: Three hundred, so how long, how many, so when did you start flying your ops then? Your operational?
DB: Just, I think at the end of May, in May sometime
BB: Yeah, yeah.
DB: Cause the first one was to Dortmund [laughs]
BB: Yes, ok, and how many ops did you do with 576? Roughly, roughly?
DB: I would say about six or seven
BB: Ok. And then got transferred to the Polish squadron. And were they flying, what were the Poles flying?
DB: They’d been flying Wellingtons up to then when they went onto Lancasters they wanted to bomb Berlin, this was a [unclear] but when they went on Lancasters all of a sudden their losses went from a hundred [unclear] to quite [unclear] and the morale had dropped
BB: Dropped, yeah.
DB: After they told us privately but
BB: So you had to go and try to get it sorted out [unclear]
DB: So they both, we were the first two crews that went there and then they built it up the full flight
BB: Right. And built it up
DB: But when I was up to Sandtoft, well, I understand later that it was known as Planktoft
BB: Planktoft
DB: Because it had so many crashes, but we crashed twice in twenty-four hours, once in take-off and once in landing.
BB: Gosh!
DB: In twenty-four hours and that’s when I broke my knee
BB: was damaged
DB: Because [unclear]
BB: I’ve talked to other veterans, both within Fighter Command and Bomber Command, who worked with the Poles, mainly in Fighter Command, cause when I was in the RAF reserve, I was in RAF Northolt, which was a big Polish base and they found them unruly on the ground, sometimes lacking discipline but in the air very focused, get the job done, kill Germans, [unclear], that was it.
DB: Well we
BB: How did you find them?
DB: We do trouble with them now but biggest was the language difficulty cause they had a problem the first time we went to the cinema because when they coming out, we used God save the King, but what we didn’t realise was that immediately followed was the Polish national anthem and of course we, on our way walking out, of course that was a major crime to the Pole
BB: Of course
DB: And of course we got lined up the next day and we just said, well, we didn’t know what that was so they had to be taught the Polish national anthem apart from orders were all in Polish
BB: Yes, yes
DB: So, we had to learn all
BB: Sure [unclear] Polish
DB: [unclear] and all that sort of thing
BB: Of course, they’d have their own Polish NCOs and everything, yeah.
DB: But I mean, the groundcrews [unclear] were terrific and some things were more, I would say more thorough than even our own squadron because some of the staff, they were still doing, was a lot about [unclear] wireless operators swinging the loop, while you never did that on a British squadron [unclear] I think, when things were a bit more antiquated, I would say
BB: Right. Ok, so you find yourself going all through that, now, tell me something about the crewing up process at
DB: Well, we crewed up at Peplow OTU, that was a normal place
BB: Yes
DB: And all that was [unclear] a big hangar, I mean, I see this, had a big room, whatever it was, and you were just taught to crew up yourself this big [unclear] and well we started off, my bomb aimer and I, who were close along, we sort of lined up together, and then we saw the pilot and somebody recommended up to us so that was that and then we just build up from that
BB: Yes
DB: The first the mid upper gunner was [unclear] he could recommend and he told us about his [unclear], he came out top on our course so that was a good thing and the navigator, he was the last and the engineer wasn’t too bad because he heard my scorched voice so he was quite happy to join the crew there
BB: Yeah, could you, correct me if I am wrong, but the mid upper gunner and the flight engineer, you said joined the crew at the heavy conversion unit
DB: No, they joined then there at the OTU
BB: Did they?
DB: The whole lot
BB: Because in the earlier part of the war, they, when the flight engineer [unclear] came in because of the heavies, they used to meet them at the heavy conversion unit
DB: Well
BB: [unclear] obviously streamline by then
DB: Of course, the engineer was flying alongside the pilot
BB: Yeah
DB: Wellingtons so the other thing, there was two gunners and only one turret
BB: Right
DB: So they had to do
BB: Yeah [unclear]
DB: Well, circuits and bumps, things like that
BB: Yes, yes
DB: But
BB: And so, your time at the heavy conversion unit was how long, roughly?
DB: Roughly, was six weeks
BB: Six weeks, ok.
DB: More or less, was circuits and bumps
BB: Yeah. Did you do, did you do any sorties?
DB: [unclear]
BB: Sometimes they’d take you on a soft target over France [unclear]
DB: Finishing, finished the OUT you did a sortie [unclear], ours was to Paris and dropping leaflets
BB: Yeah.
DB: Still, that was from Wellingtons still at OTU.
BB: But it gave you the experience and all of that, [unclear] as a crew under operational conditions. Ok, so converted to the Lancaster at the HCU and with your new crew, part of your new crew and then off to 576 Squadron
DB: We went from OTU to heavy conversion unit and then ended up at 576 Squadron at Elsham Wolds
BB: 576, yeah. And how did you find that?
DB: Oh, well, I liked 576 Squadron, we were very sorry to leave it but they’d just been selecting crews sort of semi-experienced I would say that they wanted experienced crews but then went up too many operations then
BB: I understand
DB: Which makes sense, there was nobody very happy about but we were, there was two crews here, we were the first, who weren’t too bad, but Polish food didn’t agree with us to start with
BB: No
DB: [unclear] Got sorted out and it was, I think everything we got [unclear] every day, I think, a toast and cheese and the Polish soup was fat and [unclear], you know that?
BB: Yes, yes, yes
DB: [unclear] fat, so that didn’t suit us at all but fortunate enough to send black cookery [unclear] and she was asking [unclear] so when I got cheese very quickly [unclear] and a soup [unclear] was sick but apart from that, I mean, we got on very well with the groundcrew, had a good groundcrew
BB: Yeah?
DB: [unclear] Another thing, [unclear] revolver practice every week, you never heard that, I mean, you could carry a revolver if you wanted but usually the only one who did it was the pilot usually but [unclear] up to do it yourself, he wasn’t forced
BB: No
DB: But I never carried one because I wouldn’t have shot a civilian anyway so what was a point? But no I thought it was quite, 576 was a happy atmosphere and then you knew, there were two squadrons which made [unclear] quite busy of course and then we were nicely set [unclear] between Scunthorpe and Grimsby cause there [unclear] went there so that was
BB: Weekend
DB: I mean, the station was a bit away from the airfield but [unclear]
BB: Did you have a normal aircrew bike?
DB: Pardon?
BB: Did you have the bikes to go from the domestic site to the airfield?
US: Bikes, bicycles.
DB: Oh no, no. [laughs] One bicycle was the Polish one, Polish squadron and that was quite handy.
BB: Yes, cause some of these domestic sites were quite away from the
DB: Yes
BB: From the airfield
DB: One was quite good, Elsham Wolds was very far from the airfield to the mess so they got sleeping accommodation, cause something too close to the hangar because running up the engines during the night was something difficult to get sleeping
BB: Yes [unclear]
DB: But, apart from that
BB: Yes
DB: But a good, had a very good CO to 576 Squadron, Tubby Clayton, his father [unclear] in the First World War
BB: Alright.
DB: Now
BB: That at 576
DB: Yeah.
BB: Right, ok. And how did you find, did you like the Lancaster? Did you like flying the Lancaster?
DB: No.
BB: Lovely airplane, I’m told.
DB: How did I find the Lancaster?
BB: Yeah, the Lancaster.
DB: Oh, a fantastic aircraft, oh, I mean, we had a sort of demonstration think of [unclear] De Havilland, we didn’t normally fly in them but it was fantastic, I mean, flying on one engine, turning over, stuff like that, the only thing was the one engine, when [unclear] damaged one engine, you had to turn into
BB: Yes
DB: You turned, you couldn’t turn the other three engines
BB: No, no.
DB: But it was a terrific aircraft, much better than the Halifax, the Halifax was, well, [unclear] anyway, in fact it never seemed to be [unclear] for some reason, the engines didn’t [unclear], Hendley’s engines made all the difference but
BB: The good old [unclear] with the Merlins, fine
DB: It was a terrible aircraft the Halifax for swinging and take-off and landing
BB: Yes, I heard that from other veterans, yes
DB:
BB: Yes, must have been quite frightening and coming back to OTU, some of the veterans I’ve talked to said there was an awful lot of crashes at the Heavy Conversion Unit, they were on and they lost a few crews, did you, was that a true statement, as far as you’re concerned?
DB: I think so, Sandtoft I think had a bad, a very bad reputation to us, we had, well I said, landing and take-off but it wasn’t from a great height and that was engines [unclear] sometimes from the [unclear] down I think but the engines were clapped out, the aircraft were clapped out
BB: So at the HCU they
DB: I mean the aircrews, the groundcrews must have been breaking their heart trying to keep them going, but as I said, while we drove off to aircraft, our pilot [laughs] and he ended up flying civilian aircraft for Aer Lingus when from the very time they started cause he, after the prisoner of war, he stayed in and funny enough he was made an instructor which didn’t
BB: Ok, so, how many ops did you do before you were shot down?
DB: I
BB: Roughly
DB: I am a bit confused there because I reckon, we’d done about twenty-one, but I don’t think officially we had done because I hadn’t my logbook
BB: No, no, no, but you were an experienced crew, you got over the five trip [unclear] and then gone onto others, now, what shot you down, was it flak or was it night fighter?
DB: Night fighter, a BFF, a UbF110.
BB: Ok. Right, and where was that? Roughly? Over France or?
DB: We hadn’t got to Stuttgart
BB: Ah, you were on the way to the target?
DB: It was a bit I think a bad thing because in the first place was to fly a raid on D-Day, Caen
BB: Oh, of course yeah, right
DB: At low level all the way round until we came sort of more or less at Brest [unclear] I would say I don’t know possibly fifty, a hundred miles and then they decided to turn and up towards Mannheim, go north towards Mannheim and climb from four thousand feet to twenty thousand feet reaching the time limit which [unclear] some of our pilots raised the question how do you get a fully laden Lancaster from four thousand feet to twenty thousand feet? And they just said, oh, I wouldn’t consider that, climb as high as you can get but whilst when we got up near Mannheim and turned to go south, this was our diversion supposed to mean and elst we turning south approaching Stuttgart we got shot
BB: Was it a beam attack or an under attack?
DB: It was an under attack.
BB: It would be the Schrage Musik, with the upper pointing
DB: [unclear] music
BB: Schrage Musik, yes, piano music
DB: But they came underneath, obviously
BB: Were you still carrying your bomb load at that stage?
DB: Pardon?
BB: Were still carrying a bomb load?
DB: Oh yes, the bomb load
BB: So, went up like a lighthouse
DB: Well, actually, funny enough, well at that time, [unclear] night fighter equipment [unclear]
BB: Oh, ok, [unclear] Rebecca and stuff
DB: But the top of all was, because it was so low down
BB: Didn’t work, then
DB: [unclear]
BB: It was [unclear] the system
DB: And, well actually, knew it was [unclear] cause I reported to the [unclear]they had thought they’d seen it at one time but then as you said, dived underneath and came along
BB: Yeah
DB: And I think it was one thirty in the morning, I can remember that cause I recorded it in my log just automatically and then
BB: What date was that? Do you remember the date?
DB: Twenty-fourth, twenty-fifth, morning, one twenty in the morning the twenty fifth
BB: Of?
DB: Of July
BB: July, God!
DB: And then they came round again, I don’t know whether they hit us the same time or not cause one wing, both engines and the flames were flown back on the starboard side
BB: Who was killed in that attack?
DB: Nobody
BB: Nobody?
DB: We never lost anybody.
BB: Excellent.
DB: But, because you end up as one of the very few, that there was no casualties.
BB: Wasn’t?
DB: Because they hit the tanks and the engines,
BB: Right.
DB: I think they came again, I’m not a hundred percent certain of that and went for the other side and I think it was there once [unclear] wouldn’t have had much chance
BB: No
DB: Because I recorded one thirty-two
BB: Right.
DB: That could have been explosions
BB: Right. But the Me 101 went off somebody else after that.
DB: So, then because, there was two or three things, the [unclear] hadn’t been, didn’t go up to the full height maybe could be allowed a lower height twenty thousand feet, getting the length of the aircraft, was a complete lack of oxygen,
BB: Yes, of course
DB: So cause that was one thing, and just a [unclear]
BB: I mean, he got, did you all get out?
DB: All got out
BB: And did you try and regroup on the ground or did you all split up?
DB: Well, we were scattered all over the field but because the pilot and I were speaking to each other just at the last minute and he said, he was going out and I said, well, I’ll go back because the engineer and I went to the rear
BB: Across the main [unclear]
DB: And, well, he was sitting there on his [unclear] and locked to go so that gave him a lot
BB: [unclear]
DB: He wasn’t restrained, it was just, the flames were so frightening, you know, flames got and as I said, there was now or nothing, so I had to [unclear] so he went and I was behind him but on the ground I landed and my parachute had caught in trees and I couldn’t get down that was my biggest problem and I was undecided whether to present a pressure leach or not
BB: Break a leg
DB: Cause I didn’t know how far
BB: No
DB: But what I managed to do was get one sided and pull down one side and that slipped down
BB: Right, right [unclear]
DB: So I did drop but not very far and then I pulled it down and I’d cross a bit grass, about six, well, a hundred yards, [unclear] across under a fence, started to run up through the trees, all of a sudden I’ve seen my pilot put thirty yards ahead of me and I shout to them because I could see there was some wrong, but he had lost his boots on the way down, [unclear] is not uncommon for people dropping from a height and [unclear] a group clearing, had a bit buried our parachutes
BB: And all that stuff
DB: And the same [unclear] had to do something about his feet so we cut the top off, mine because his boots [unclear]
BB: That’s right
DB: Cut them off and parachute silk for the cord and made a rough pair of sandals for him and that kept us back
BB: Yes, I see.
DB: And
BB: But nobody was wounded, everybody got together and
DB: No, the rest of them were all scattered
BB: Ok.
DB: [unclear]
BB: All split up but you linked up with your pilot
DB: Yeah
BB: And did you have a plan? Did you have a [unclear]?
DB: We decided the place, he had opened his map and he knew quite where we’d been shot down and as it so happened, he made a mistake but that was beside the point
BB: Do you know where that was incidentally?
DB: Well, it was a bit [unclear] aircraft
BB: Aircraft
DB: Ochsenbach was the name of the place, OSCH
BB: Oschenbach
DB: I’d been there [unclear] and had my lunch and [unclear]
BB: Oh, ok, good for you. So how long till the Luftwaffe arrived to take you away?
DB: Oh, well, we didn’t get captured for nearly a week
BB: Oh, you got [unclear]
DB: We were, we kept on and as I say, I think Schaffhausen was the place in Switzerland we were actually heading for
BB: Right
DB: But I think he thought and he had the map so I didn’t bother getting mine out
BB: Right
DB: And he, obviously he could see, I couldn’t see and the idea was to head for the Schaffhausen in the northern part of Switzerland. But then of course something wrong, we’re head, because they bombed the next night as well and I said, oh, there’s something wrong, we seem to be heading in the wrong direction but we were doing quite well, I think the lack of boots and shoes was a big handicap because we were troubled tying up, making something to protect his feet, was always a handicap, plus the fighter I don’t think he was a great outdoor man
BB: No
DB: No, he hadn’t much physical
BB: Was this an all British crew or did you have New Zealanders or anybody else in your crew?
DB: No, they were all British,
BB: All British
DB: Because by that time the Canadians, they decided they wanted their own group
BB: Right.
DB: So, they made up their group and moved people [unclear]
BB: Yes, that’s right
DB: Cause we had to go and pick up the Lancasters and take them back again
BB: Right, ok
DB: [unclear]
BB: So there you were on the ground, you’ve got your crew, got your crew roughly together split up how long, you’re on the run for a week
DB: I think [unclear] but I think [unclear]
BB: Ok. How did they get you in the end?
DB: Well,
BB: Were you betrayed by the resistance?
DB: We were doing quite well [unclear] the Black Forest but we had to break cover and we couldn’t get water and it was scorching summer and that was, trying to get water but couldn’t open farmhouse trying to get these wells but then the dogs started barking so we had to get away on the road but what actually happened was along this road and we decided to go through a field to get to the field on the other side there was a road there and we had to break cover to go over the road somebody I think must have seen we didn’t see anything but there was a truck came along loaded with troops they’d obviously been in [unclear] with the fires in Stuttgart and somebody must have spotted them because they stopped them and then we had to run through the field and the [unclear] said, we succeeded to go, [unclear] the lorry [unclear], we got into some cover but obviously they were after us and they must have caught other people and then eventually we saw an airfield [unclear] and we decided we could go there, lie low, and see if we could possibly get on the aircraft cause they were training aircraft, they were single seaters on the but there again we had to get across was a, ground was a sort of road, a ravine, I would say and we had to get down the bank and across on the other side but just when we were got out on the road we heard a voice saying
BB: Hande hoch!
DB: [laughs] for you the war is over [unclear].
BB: Yeah, and were you well treated, I mean, were you abused in any way by them or?
DB: Ah, no, well,
BB: Showed around a bit
DB: We got taken in because it was an aerodrome,
BB: Yeah.
DB: We got taken in there and all we wanted was water and no they wouldn’t give it to us but they gave us plenty of stuff like spaghetti with possibly a sort of gravy in it so we had, we didn’t eat, we couldn’t eat the spaghetti, we couldn’t swallow
BB: No, no.
DB: So we asked for some more and the chef was very, the cook was very angry then but they handcuffed us to beds
BB: Right
DB: But as I say I can’t see there was any odd treatment there, [unclear] but then they took us into a place and there was a big hall and we had to lie down on the floor with hands and legs wide apart
BB: [unclear]
DB: And then we found out was being used for people coming in after being held in the [unclear] and shelters they were coming in for tea or coffee and then some of the civilians [unclear] but one or two [unclear] but not but, but all of a sudden some of the Wehrmacht come in and they were getting rifle butts in the kidneys, kicking in between the legs and one or two of them in the head but I can’t say, I mean apart from that and then we got taken into, go taken into a place and interrogated by a Wehrmacht major
BB: Not a Luftwaffe?
DB: Not at that time and that was, you’ve seen the films footage
BB: Yeah
DB: Dancing on the top of the table with temper, the [unclear] of the German officers dancing with the [unclear], well, that’s exactly what he did, I would never have believed it but he was so annoyed because we wouldn’t give him answers he wanted and then a fortunate thing, a German lad, a young lad, they had him imprisoned, they took him out to translate and of course the major didn’t agree with what he was telling them, you see, so that was that, and then the Luftwaffe came to take us away. They were, we had to go to Stuttgart and the station was bombed so they took us to another station just outside Ludwigsburg
BB: Who?
DB: Ludwigsburg. Just about two or three miles out, that was a bit frightening because all the civilians were being evacuated to Ludwigsburg cause Stuttgart station but [unclear] nobody, we didn’t, the Luftwaffe protected us so we weren’t
B. That’s good
DB: And eventually we arrived at Dulag Luft near Frankfurt and had about a week there I think.
BB: That was the interrogation centre
DB: Dulag Luft
BB: Yeah
DB: We had to spent, well, I spent all my time there on [unclear] and [unclear] just across the road, possibly you’ve heard of that before and
BB: Yeah. Right, and then, so, once they were happy, well, once you’d, they’d satisfied themselves with you were what you were and all the rest of it, you went to a camp?
DB: [unclear] interrogated each day
BB: Yeah.
DB: And one of the things, cause they knew everything about our squadron and everything, they could practically tell you your address, how they get the information I don’t know must have good [unclear] but went there and of course was [unclear] tell me about how good the Germans treated the RAF prisoners I said, well, we never were [unclear] medical and he says, what’s wrong? and I said, well, look at my ears, my eardrum had been bust by anti-aircraft shells so by this time I was suppurating because we’d no water so, oh, [unclear] so, went back to the cell, and the next, somebody else came along [unclear] two men with medical orders just put my straight and then [unclear] straight like that and then of course all the pus and every had gone out so when I went, we went from there to camp Stalag Luft VII
BB: And where was that?
DB: Bankau was the village, Kreisberg was the town which was fairly nearer.
BB: Ok.
DB: And that was a new camp, there was no proper hut so just the way you there [unclear], there were just like by ten by eight sheds, so, I think it slept six and well, you just lay down on the floor, there was no other,
BB: NO.
DB: Just [unclear] latrines outside the thing, there was not toilets
BB: And it was Luftwaffe guards or Volks?
DB: Luftwaffe [unclear].
BB: Ho Luftwaffe, ok, and how many were in that camp, is that a new camp?
DB: I don’t know, we didn’t even [unclear]
BB: [unclear]
DB: With just a table at the center of the square [unclear] but then the new camp, the main camp opened, they’d been preparing it so we move in and that was much better. A proper camp
BB: There was a temporary camp. You were there for some weeks or something
DB: Well, we were there from until 18th of January 1944
BB: Right
DB: No, 1945, I should say
BB: ’45, right, ok, did you travel around in trains, when you were?
DB: No, we were marched
BB: Marched
DB: Oh, I got the whole history, the medical officer, we didn’t have an RAF medical officer, was an army one, an REMC, he would [unclear], he was excellent, and him and the camp commandant had kept a running record and reported it to the [unclear]
BB: [unclear]
DB: But we [unclear] the Stalag for a year and that’s where Stalag III escape [unclear], they’d arrived a week or two before us, but we had [unclear] about twice or three times but when we ran a trade the last four or five days I think, that was pretty rough
BB: Yes, I can imagine. And who liberated you?
DB: Russians.
BB: Russians. I bet that must have been
DB: 21st of April.
BB: And what were they like?
DB: The first line troops were excellent, I mean, the only thing they did was to put our tanks and [unclear] where the barb wire was, run around and I don’t think they were doing a good thing taking them down, [unclear] the lights were all electric [unclear]
BB: [unclear]
DB: So, the first thing some [unclear] among the prisoners, the officers in our camp and interrogate some [unclear] but very well, they got all our own documents, the Germans had carried their own documents so we got, arranged them all, got our own documents back, we got our own valuables back, so the Germans must have carried them all the way from
BB: [unclear] One they’re very, write everything down, two, they were very thorough
DB: Oh yes.
BB: And, you know, so, alles in Ordnung, alles klar, you see
DB: I know we got these back, and
BB: Well, that was good, and well treated by the Russians, no problems?
DB: Pardon?
BB: Well treated by the Russians?
DB: Well, as I say, [unclear] the political troops and the atmosphere changed completely
BB: Yeah
DB: From night and day. A lot of our chaps were leaving the camp and trying to get on the road, now although they’d been instructed by the CO and by the radio not to do it, a lot of them were beginning to be a bit frightened of the Russians, especially the likes of Poles and things, they didn’t like them but provided that you just didn’t go and say [unclear] because you could go and they’d seen you with a ring or a watch, they would just take it from you [unclear]
BB: [unclear]
DB: It didn’t happen to me, I mean, but some of them did happen to but [unclear] they kept us low, low as we should have been
BB: Yeah, you were a bargaining chip
DB: Because, as I say, they were just, the kept, well, I got home the 28th of May on the [unclear] the 21st of April and while it took about two or three days to come because the Russians took us out five o’clock in the morning, took us to the river Oder, Wittenberg was the place they handed us over the Americans and we stayed one night in [unclear], went to Brussels, the next day [unclear].
BB: Right, ok.
DB: And we spent overnight in Brussels and then flown back to Dunsfold landed
BB: Dunsfold
DB: South of London
BB: Because several of the guys I’ve talked to before went to RAF Westcott, that was another, Silverstone and Westcott, were the other two airfields where they took the POWs.
DB: That was quite surprising because we landed at Dumsfield must have been after lunchtime and obviously they hadn’t expected such a big crowd of RAF prisoners at that stage of the war, so, nothing was organized but they were very well organized, had civilian women and everything and helping, [unclear] the only thing was we objected, no, we didn’t object and laid down in the grass and they came nurse DDT up your legs [unclear]
BB: You got new kit there and all the rest, yeah.
DB: Oh, we had a new kit, I got a new kit in Brussels.
BB: In Brussels, oh, ok.
DB: But then they organized a train, must have bene just after teatime, and went off for Cosford, near Wolverhampton
BB: Yeah
DB: And we arrived there at about one o’clock in the morning
BB: Now, were you, as ex POWs, were you interviewed by Mi9 people, you know, the people who were interested at what happened in the prisoner of war camp, so, did you get any of that?
US: He interviewed with other people.
DB: Oh yes, I was.
BB: Oh, about your time in the.
DB: Were interrogated when we landed at Cosford.
BB: Right. Ok, at that time
DB: They told you to go and have a shower and drop [unclear] your clothes and when you came back, all your clothes were away, cause they’d taken them away and had a beautiful army uniform I got in Brussels [laughs], a Canadian army officer’s [laughs]
BB: Right, just [unclear]
DB: No [unclear] but they got us up at five o’clock in the morning, wanted to [unclear] and they started, I don’t know where they got the people but everything, medicals, clothing, [unclear] ranks and we were alone away during the day as ready, and some of them could get home, they got away fairly quickly, [unclear] we couldn’t get a train till the evening so we were kept back and some of the [unclear] Londoners [unclear] North London, people who had to go to London, down to Cornwall they kept them later as well because obviously they couldn’t get home that night.
BB: No, no. That’s right, so, it was, it all went fairly smoothly for a wartime situation with that massive, hundreds, thousands of prisoners to contend with so it worked visibly ok and so
DB: [unclear], what were you saying, I’m sorry?
BB: I am saying that the whole, it may have seemed chaotic but it worked ok, you came in one end and you went out the other
DB: Even the letters there other people that did the same thing, everybody said it was excellent and I mean [unclear]
BB: No, did you get all your back pay?
DB: Yes, no, not the [unclear]
BB: No. not [unclear], no, no.
DB: They got some enough to carry back home again,
BB: [unclear]
DB: Some [unclear]
BB: And so, you came home, and where was home then?
DB: Down at the other end of the village
BB: Alright
DB: [unclear] called, well, it was used, it was known as the Westend at one time, was part of main street really
BB: Ok.
DB: But the older people was referred to its original name. But the village was much smaller.
BB: Of course. It would have been, yes, yes and then you obviously, what did you do before you joined [unclear], was it your?
DB: I worked in the quarry which was a work similar to a mason
BB: Ok.
DB: A stone mason.
BB: Yeah. And that’s where you went before you [unclear]
DB: I got taken out there and put in [unclear]
BB: Yeah, ok.
DB: Shifting furniture, but then I was underage at that time.
BB: Right, ok and then, you went back to that job when you came back or did you do something new?
DB: Yes. But, first, four or five winters to kill, every November till about February, March usually flu [unclear]
BB: Well, that’s right, your resistance [unclear]
DB: Flu, pneumonia, well, flu, bronchitis, pneumonia, pleurisy,
BB: Whatever you had it [laughs]
DB: Well,
BB: But you obviously, that was a result of your
DB: Well, I think
BB: camp, POW camp
DB: I think I was, possibly delayed
BB: Well, you have more likely delayed shock and reaction, all that stuff, you know, bailing out of an aircraft and landing in a foreign place where people are trying to kill you, it’s pretty stressful and I know you were young, but you know, you got through it but there is a price at the end of the day [unclear]. Yeah. I interviewed one guy who was a quiet, nice man and we were interviewing him, I’m interviewing him, and he’d also be a prisoner of war and he went from being very calm, nice sort of guy and I said, how was the camp? He just, so he, I think he had a bad experience one way or the other with, you know, interrogations and one thing and another, but in the main the Luftwaffe very fairly, fairly fair, you know they were doing their job but there was no animosity, they seemed to like, you know, the RAF and I’ve heard this from German prisoners saying how the RAF treated them well.
DB: Well, funny enough, I [unclear] a letter from my bomb aimer who, he was the last one, well, he was the only one who really had close contact after but he had gone in [unclear] and gone to Germany, so he married this German girl but one of the letters he’d written that he’d seen [unclear], some of them were [unclear], badly treated and tortured and all, and he said, well, he said, I don’t know about you but he says, I’ve never seen or felt any of that sort of thing
BB: No.
DB: Intimidation
BB: Sure
DB: And then quite honestly on the march we had to leave, woken up [unclear] there was snow was possibly minus twenty-five, mostly around minus twenty but one of these places [unclear] and the padre was a tall man, six foot nine, the tallest man ever [unclear], and [unclear] was in him and he was standing near [unclear] and he says, don’t mind him, he’s frozen stiff. A German said to him, had been standing there and just got frozen died, standing up, he still had his gun. And then we were crossing the river, Elbe or Oder, a German, the Russians had bombed the bridge, and that was damaged but to get across that, you know how the, [unclear] coming over and then there’s a walkway [unclear], well, we had to go across there for a bit and it was German Luftwaffe chaps, they were standing ever so often with a rope to stop you falling into the water but then they were standing, at least we were getting across and I understand some of the later ones was the Germans that fell in the water, was so cold and frozen but they still did their job, so I mean
BB: So, yeah, well, that’s, so, that was your war then. And you were lucky
DB: Well, I was
BB: Very lucky, you could, first of all you had the training which was, I mean, I’ve been reading some of the statistics on the casualties during training
DB: Oh yes, they were
BB: Yes, and so, that was the first hurdle to survive that, then the operational tour, then jumping out an airplane then evading, then the camp, then all the problems at the end of the war, how unstable everything was and who was going to release you and who was going to come and whatever
US: And now he’s still living
BB: Yes
US: And now he’s still living.
BB: Yes, so it’s wonderful. So, well done.
DB: Oh, I mean,
BB: I congratulate you on your life
DB: Well, of course a lot of the, I mean, a lot of the stories, I mean, I’ve been [unclear] said, I mean, nobody could say the word sort of [unclear]
BB: No, no, no; I’m not making that assumption, I’m saying that the Luftwaffe compared to other guards probably better than most [unclear]
DB: I mean, no, I thought, when you look back now at some of the time, it was intimidating and frightening
BB: Oh sure, would it would be
DB: Apart from that place in [unclear], nobody sort of kicked me
BB: No
DB: [unclear] of course, some says, how did you feel the suffering there? But then [unclear] passed out, you didn’t feel the next one sort of thing but my back still shows [unclear] and my back had been badly damaged, I mean, well, subject to a lot of, but then again they [unclear] hospital, they usually asked me if I’d been in a car crash because it was still showing
BB: Yeah, sure, sure
DB: And, well
BB: I mean, after the war, when you came back, as a matter of interest, you obviously had a medical, did they send you off to RAF hospitals and things to?
DB: No, just, they sent, I got sent for a medical after but four to six weeks home
BB: Right, ok.
DB: And funnily enough, I passed the medical, but then, I’d always been in the athletics
BB: Yeah
DB: And I kept myself
BB: Fit
DB: Fit.
BB: Yes, yes.
DB: [unclear] as prisoners as much as I could, I kept as far my knee would allow me because I used to settle down and [unclear] until they operated, it was only in 1995 before I eventually got an operation
BB: I see.
DB: But even in [unclear] I don’t know, you see, I’ve written a diary there which is quoted in one of the books, the books there
BB: Oh, I need to have a look at that
DB: And it’s mentioned that quite often and that was one of the reasons I didn’t make any effort to leave the camp
BB: No
DB: I’ve been having trouble [unclear] and then eventually the Russian, well they blew out one night and taken to hospital during the night because they don’t know what happened and their own [unclear] was going to take the knee off, pin it and put a plate in and that was a Friday, all of a sudden he said, look, he says, the Russian medical officer has a lot more practice than me, is better than me, agree to let him operate, so I said, fine, they whisked me at one o’clock on a Sunday morning, when they came at five o’clock in the morning and I got taken away, we all got taken away but they wouldn’t move me on a stretcher, [unclear] strapped up and then just hobble along but I mean, you think back at it, you wonder how you survived
BB: I think you just take each day at a time and you build up the resilience to cope with that, I don’t think you look, you know, I mean, I’ve talked to a number of [unclear] guys on ops, then they were sorted by next week, [unclear] next week they may not be here, that was their mindset and I think some of them in their post-war life, because of what they’ve been through in Bomber Command, it’s only my personal opinion, they didn’t really bother about, nothing could worry them anymore
DB: No.
BB: You know, I, I know several veterans who have said, look, before I was, joined the RAF, I used to worry about this, worry about that, I went, did my tour, you know, we’ve seen what the casualty rate was in Bomber Command, we said, right, ok, you know, I’m alive, I met this lovely woman, I’ve got married, I’m gonna go back to my old job, and nothing seemed to worry them.
US: [unclear] and he was shot down in July.
BB: God!
US: [laughs]
BB: So you [unclear]
DB: [unclear]
US: [unclear]
BB: So, you got the missing telegram.
US: Oh yes, yes.
BB: And then, then you would get the red cross thing, he’s in the camp and
US: Actually, actually no, it was my father, was my father although he didn’t, it was a lady down at Dumfries my father always listened to Lord Haw-Haw
BB: Did he?
US: Every night he listened and this night something happened in the the town, cause a bomb dropped in the town and he was in the fire brigade so he didn’t listen, but next morning we got a letter from the women and down south to say that she overheard a Lord Haw-Haw that David and his number was in it and to get home and to safe flight and safe and well.
BB: That was good.
US: Very good.
DB: The photographs [unclear] I don’t know if you’ve seen them but they started, my granddaughter was at school and there was a sort of program or thing [unclear] on [unclear] and she said, oh, my grandad was a prisoner of war, [unclear] and he’s got original German documents of it, so of course she went and it was put on the internet, wherever it was, this is quite a few years ago now, and then, oh, start again, people contacted me [unclear] and someone saw the, got to America, this professor Leo Goldstein but he, because he saw it, it was his father had been in the war, his father wasn’t in the American Air Force, he was in the army, but he had been captured I think at the Battle of the Bulge, and he ended up in Stalag Luft III but when he’d seen this thing on the internet, he contacted Claire, Claire contacted me and [unclear] and was like this, I don’t know whether [unclear] must have gone [unclear] but I gave up very, oh, was beautiful [unclear], Professor Leo Goldstein, he went, I think from Orleans up to San Francisco [unclear] but it was quite fantastic, what he was pointing out was I mean, the different camps always [unclear] but he ended up in Stalag III the final camp we were on but he was detailing all the camps we went and he says, nothing the [unclear] better than land coming in a camp that was run by the RAF because they still kept it very strict [unclear], you know, was then bombed, was American camp just a shambles, nobody seemed to organize anything, well, I must admit, for some reason they kept discipline I would say, there wasn’t one two [unclear]
BB: No [unclear]
DB: But
BB: You know, discipline, [unclear] you know, you had leadership and you had all that other stuff
DB: Well, there as the same thing, some of the other camps were liberated, they broke into the orderly rooms and tore everything through apart but [unclear] camp, they just everything down, even their own documents so I ended up [unclear] the German documents and then I got, I don’t know the actual forger that was in the film the great escape, the real forger was a man, Duncan Black, he worked for the Edinburgh Evening Dispatch and after that, after the war went home, he’d written to, I think he’d written to everybody who was in the squadron [unclear] anyway and offered them photographs of it, he had twelve photographs, wasn’t there any chance of it but I had to pay for the
BB: Postage
DB: Transport, postage but
BB: Well, that’s good, so thank you, thank you for that
DB: I’ve got a photograph
BB: I just want to ask a couple of questions, where were you educated? Educated in Stirling?
DB: Mh?
BB: Were you educated in Stirling? High school?
DB: [unclear]
BB: At high school or?
DB: No, well, Lucas School in Riverside, secondary school.
BB: And you got married before you went on ops?
US: Married the 18th of February. Had seventy, seventy second wedding anniversary.
BB: Congratulations. Ok. [unclear] Had anybody else in your family been in the military?
US: Our son.
DB: Our son [unclear]
US: [unclear]
DB: He’s out now.
BB: [unclear] by the time you joined?
DB: No
BB: When you joined there was no family kind of
DB: Apart from my father in the First World War
BB: Yeah, well, what was he in the army?
DB: I don’t know what he was in, I know that he was called up in the Bannockburn cycling corps, in those days they were on the cycles carrying a Lewis gun on the bike and the cavalry took the fields
BB: There we go then. Now, one thing that I asked guys and it’s because I am interested in it myself, you don’t have to answer it, in, on your squadron, or do you know of it happening on squadrons, guys going LMF.
DB: Yes, there was, well, I knew one, two, not by name cause you didn’t see, you didn’t see them
BB: No, no
DB: Our own engineer landed one time and he wanted to go LMF, he said he was no, no longer going to do it, but however I was just, I had more flying hours then the rest put together because being on training command,
BB: Right, right
DB: But because there was a [unclear] there we went to see the CO, Tubby Clayton, and he just [unclear], sir, I’m not going to take any action just now, but, he says, take him out tonight and get him really drunk and come and see me the next morning. So, the next morning, we say, well, don’t [unclear] Aberdeen, Aberdeen named for George, what are you going to do then? No, no, I’m nothing to say now and that was all, we never had any more trouble. The only thing the pilot had a bit shaky thing but we never [unclear] but when we landed one time a great medical officer, Henderson, squadron leader Henderson, [unclear] anymore but he must have detected something was wrong of the pilot, [unclear], there again got said, the boatman was, he was next senior and Tubby Clayton said, the CO has mentioned [unclear], the pilot, that he doesn’t think he just [unclear] had he not [unclear], [unclear] he said, no, not really, ah well, he said, just keep an eye on him, we’ll see how it goes, but looking back at him you could see well, he was a bit upset, but he wasn’t go to let it show through, and he got over it very quickly but I think there was two or three operations, it was touch and go, I would say,
BB: Yes, I mean, it was, well, my late uncle, my mother’s sister’s husband, he was a young flying officer in the Royal Australian Air Force and she met him at a dance in Newark cause he was at 9 Squadron at Bardney and of course he knew better to dance and all the rest and my mother was, my mom and dad were down in the Midlands, and of course everybody came to stay and so on and so forth, but anyway they, he became serious but he wouldn’t marry her until he’d come off ops, he didn’t think it was fair, and he finished his ops, they got married, he went off to, instructor to an OTU, as a staff pilot, and was killed about a month later in a midair collision with a Stirling. She was left pregnant, young lassie, twenty years old, and I was brought up with his picture on the mantlepiece in his rather dark blue Australian uniform, cause the uniform was a darker blue, almost black, I wouldn’t say it was black but it was
DB: A shame
BB: It was very, yeah, and anyway, I was brought up with this and I just, my aunt remarried but I decided, when my granny died, oh, years and years later, went back, cleared the house, found the photograph, I thought, I never did find out about this bloke, so I spent the last five, the last next five years in researching him and he left home at seventeen and a half for Australia, went to train, initial training in Australia, was selected for pilot, went to Rhodesia to train, got his wings in Rhodesia, then came over here to go to the AFU, Advanced Flying Unit, with the Oxfords, and went up to this training thing till he got to 9 Squadron and he, his OTU was at Kinloss and just as you described through them all into a big hangar and it was his navigator, that was to be his navigator, a chap called Corkie [unclear], he’d been the postmaster in Ballasalla in the Isle of Man, and he was about thirty, I mean, he was old, you know, compared to young bomber guys of eighteen, nineteen, twenty, he was thirty, [coughs] so, he was the old man in the crew, and he kind of, was the father of the crew and he helped my uncle a lot and helped the whole crew a lot, but they got a rear gunner, who was a chap called Clegg and Cleggie had been a jack of all trades before the war, joined the RAF, became a full time RAF person, was doing very well, was a warrant officer, which in pre-war RAF was pretty good but he took to the drink and the women and he was knocked down several times and they said to him, right, you wanted to, you either remuster as an air gunner, a rear gunner, air gunner, rear gunner, or you go to the RAF prison. Up to you. So, he volunteered, the Cleggie was a bit of a lad but in the air, stupendous, I mean, you know, he saved the crew’s life on countless occasions
DB: [unclear] I can remember one particular [unclear] post me up to Elsham Wolds, on the [unclear] I wouldn’t go up flying that night but had operations on the radio [unclear] control tower over there and an admiral up from [unclear] to sort of be there, just witness and with a chap Pattock and the [unclear] was saying he was notorious for getting into trouble but a great pilot, coming back this night and two engines on one side were out and of course he came round a circuit, well, he didn’t even come round a circuit but he asked and they gave him a merit to land and to come in and [unclear], he’s just coming down and the next thing, aircraft commander Nathan, sort of hedgehog, hysterical [unclear] and of course Paddock had to try and go round again on two engines, he got up, up and he turned around he was [unclear] again, oh, he was cursing and swearing, [unclear] and you could hear on the loudspeaker, [unclear]
BB: Yeah, yeah.
DB: On the loudspeaker. And the admiral was killing himself laughing, he didn’t know, and the CO didn’t,
BB: [unclear]
DB: When he came round, he got round and landed alright [unclear] terrific pilot and then he was taddling into the good engines, which was lucky [laughs], they called him upstairs to fly [unclear] when he finished and of course the CO, the group captain in charge of the station, said to [unclear], what you’ve been up to [unclear] when he finished he said [unclear] and the admiral was in hysterics
BB: [unclear]
DB: [unclear] That was Paddock but [unclear] had a great [unclear] got into any trouble, police used to say, [unclear] we’ll put him on a train, alright, [unclear] and Paddock used to call him in a night’s morning, get all your flying kit on and make them walk right [laughs] and of course the pilot would be in the pilot’s parachute, he was
BB: [unclear]
DB: [laughs]
BB: Tell me, your ground crew, how did you get on with them?
DB: Both were lucky that the ground crew we had at Elsham Wolds were terrific, ah, the corporal was in charge of, I met him after the war actually when I was up at [unclear] but they were very good, and their way, you know, they would, one of the times where you would get engines changed because Elsham Wolds were just a new aircraft with the American Packard engines and similarly they were much superior to our own we had to get a change instead of [unclear] in the hangar getting down, our own crew up to do it themselves and they were then, worked together and done, you know, get the engines changed, they didn’t want to lose these engines
BB: No.
DB: They wanted the same ones [unclear]
BB: Yeah.
DB: So
BB: So, having a good ground crew was [unclear]
DB: The Poles were quite good but most of them couldn’t speak English
BB: No
DB: But I can remember the first time we went there and [unclear] one of them was really [unclear] but it took us long to the aircraft and I put a saucer down and put some fuel in them, hundred octane petrol and he walked away about so many yards and just like that and went up and just demonstrated who dangerous it is to smoke near the aircraft and that was
BB: Right
DB: And that was a pretty good lesson
BB: [unclear]
DB: But was a good station
BB: Yeah [unclear] could have gone badly wrong. Ok, well, thank you, for talking to me, and allowing me into your home, we’ll terminate the interview here, and then I’ll look at some of the documents if I may, so thank you very much
DB: [unclear]
BB: And thank you. Right, all I have to do is switch it off.
DB: [unclear] piece of the aircraft.
BB: Yes, I’m gonna get a look at that again.
DB: And there again [unclear]
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with David Berrie
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Bruce Blanche
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-31
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Sound
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ABerrieD161031
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Pending review
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01:14:17 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Description
An account of the resource
David Berrie joined the RAF and served as a wireless operator. He flew six operations with 576 Squadron from RAF Elsham Wolds. Shares his experience about living on the station with Polish crews. Remembers crashing twice in twenty-four hours and on this occasion damaging his knee. He was shot down over Germany in 1944 and managed to survive for a week before being captured and placed in a prisoner of war camp, where he was interrogated. He was then transferred to other camps before being liberated by the Russians. Mentions an episode of LMF in his crew.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Spatial Coverage
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Belgium
Great Britain
Germany
Belgium--Brussels
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
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1941-02
1944
1945-01-18
576 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bombing
crash
Dulag Luft
evading
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
prisoner of war
RAF Elsham Wolds
shot down
Stalag Luft 7
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/201/10044/BBaileyJDBaileyJDv1.1.pdf
3a146f510c94f18f8643a8ac43ad6772
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Bailey, John Derek
John Derek Bailey
Bill Bailey
John D Bailey
John Bailey
J D Bailey
J Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. Two oral history interviews with John Derek "Bill" Bailey (b. 1924, 1583184 and 198592 Royal Air Force) service material, nine photographs, a memoir and his log book. He flew a tour of operations as a bomb aimer with 103 and 166 Squadrons from RAF Elsham Wolds and RAF Kirmington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Bailey and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-12-07
2017-01-13
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Bailey, JD
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Transcription
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[centred] “WAS IT ALL A DREAM” [/centred]
[centred] The Memories of a Wartime Bomb Aimer Bill Bailey with No. 1 Group Bomber Command February 1942 to April 1947
These things really happened. I now have difficulty in remembering what I did yesterday but happenings of Fifty-odd years ago seem crystal clear, or
Was it all a dream? [/centred]
[page break]
Chapter 1. Enlistment – Royal Air Force Training Command.
The story begins on 2 February, 1942, my 18th. Birthday, when I rushed off to the recruiting office in Leicester and enlisted in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve as potential aircrew. Being a founder member cadet (No. 6) of 1461 Squadron Air Training Corps was a help. I passed the various medicals, etc[sic] and was sent to the aircrew attestation centre in Birmingham for the various tests for acceptance as aircrew. Like most others I wanted to be a pilot but on the day I attended I think they had that day’s quota of pilots. It was said my eyesight was not up to pilot standard but I could be a navigator. I was said to have a ‘convergency’ problem and would probably try to land an aircraft about ten feet off the deck.. I was duly accepted for Navigator training. The procedure was then to be sent home, attend ATC parades regularly and await further instructions. This was known as ‘deferred service’ and with it came a letter of welcome to the Royal Air Force, from the Secretary of State for Air, at that time Sir Archibald Sinclair, and the privilege of wearing a white flash in my ATC cadet’s forage cap which denoted the wearer was u/t (under training) aircrew.
So it was that on the 27 July 1942 I was commanded to report for service at the Aircrew Reception Centre at Lords Cricket Ground, St. Johns Wood, London. I was now 1583184 AC2 Bailey, J.D., rate of pay two shillings and sixpence per day. We were billeted in blocks of flats adjacent to Regents Park and fed in a vary[sic] large underground car park at one of the blocks or in the restaurant at London Zoo. Talk about feeding time at the Zoo!! A hectic three weeks followed, issue of uniforms and equipment, dental treatment, numerous jabs, endless square bashing - the ATC training helped. Lectures on this, that and everything including the dreaded effects of
[page break]
VD, the latter shown in glorious Technicolor at the Odeon Cinema, Swiss Cottage. Not that this was of much consequence at that time because we were reliably informed that plenty of bromide was put in the tea.
One day on first parade I and one other lad from my Flight were called out by the Flight Corporal, a sadistic sod, who informed us we had volunteered to give a pint of blood. Apparently we had an unusual blood group and some was required for what purpose I have never really understood.
Having completed the aforementioned necessities it was a question of what to do with us next.
The next stage of training was to be ITW (Initial Training Wing). but there was congestion in the supply line from ACRC to the ITW’s so a “holding unit” (this term will crop up from time to time) had been established at Ludlow and it was to there that we went.
Ludlow consisted of three Wings in tented accommodation and was progressively developed into a more permanent establishment by the cadets passing through, using their civilian life skills. We were allowed (officially) one night in three off camp so as not to flood the pubs, of which there were many, with RAF bods, and cause mayhem in the town.
Four weeks were spent at Ludlow. It was said to be a toughening up course and it was certainly that.
Next stop from Ludlow was to an ITW. Most ITW’s were located in seaside towns with the sea front hotels having been requisitioned by the Air Ministry. In my case I was posted to No.4 ITW at Paignton, Devon where I was to spend the next twelve weeks living in the Hydro Hotel, right on the seafront near the harbour.
Twelve weeks of intensive ground training. At the end of this period I was at the peak
[handwritten in margin] followed (needs a verb[?]) [/handwritten in margin]
[page break]
of fitness and having passed my exams was promoted LAC – pay rise to seven shillings a day.
One of the subjects covered at ITW was the Browning .303 machine gun and I well remember the first lecture on this weapon when a Corporal Armourer giving the lecture delivered his party piece which went as follows: “This is the Browning .303 machine gun which works by recoil action. When the gun is fired the bullet nips smartly up the barrel, hotley [sic] pursued by the gases …”. Applause please!
Another subject learned was the Morse Code and here again the training in the ATC stood me in good stead.
The next phase would be flying training, but when and where?
On New Years[sic] Day 1943 we were posted from Paignton to yet another ‘holding unit’ at Brighton. The move from the English Riviera to Brighton was like going to the North Pole. At Brighton we were billeted in the Metropole Hotel. More lectures, square bashing and boredom, until, after about three weeks, on morning parade it was announced that a new aircrew category of Airbomber had been created and any u/t Navigators who volunteered would be guaranteed a quick posting and off to Canada for training.
Needless to say, yours truly stepped forward and within a week had been posted to Heaton Park, Manchester which was an enormous transit camp for u/t aircrew leaving the UK for Canada, Rhodesia or America for training.
They used to say it always rains in Manchester and it certainly did continuously whilst I was there. Anyone who has seen the film “Journey Together” will have seen a departure parade at Heaton Park in pouring rain. I am told that on the day that film was shot it was fine and the fire service had to make the rain. Sods Law I suppose!
[page break]
Chapter II. Canada – The Empire Air Training Scheme.
Next, after a farewell meal of egg and chips (In 1943 a delicacy), and a few words from the C in C Training Command, it was off to Glasgow to board the “Andes” for our trip to Canada.
The ‘Andes’ was said to be jinx ship in port. She didn’t let us down. In the Clyde she dropped anchor to swing the compass and when she tried to up anchor a submarine cable was wrapped around it. After a couple of days we finally left the Clyde and I endured six days of seasickness before arriving in Halifax, Nova Scotia and then to yet another enormous transit camp at Moncton, New Brunswick where we enjoyed food that we had not seen in the UK since the start of food rationing. It was in a restaurant in Moncton that I had my very first ‘T’ Bone steak.
The first task at Moncton was issue of cold weather kit to cope with the Canadian winter and Khaki Drill to cope with the very hot Canadian summer. We were at this time in the middle of the winter and colder than I had ever experienced before.. The next stop should have been to a Bombing & Gunnery School but before that there had to be the inevitable ‘holding unit’. So it was off to Carberry, Manitoba, five or six days on a troop train, days spent seeing nothing but trees, frozen lakes, the occasional trace of habitation and the odd trappers cabin. At intervals on the journey across Canada, people were taken off the train suffering from Scarlet Fever. It was believed that this disease came from the troopships.
As we passed through Winnipeg on our journey, for the first time we were allowed off the train and as we went from the platform to the station concourse we were greeted with bands playing a huge welcome from the good people of Winnipeg. They had in Winnipeg the “Airmens Club” and an invitation to visit if there on leave. They
[page break]
had a wonderful system of people who would welcome RAF chaps into their homes for a few days or a weekend when on leave. This was to stand me in good stead as you will hear later.
Shortly after arrival at Carberry I fell victim to Scarlet Fever and spent five weeks in isolation hospital at Brandon after which I and a fellow sufferer by the name of Peter Caldwell had two weeks sick leave in Winnipeg and the Airmens Club arranged for us to stay with an English family. Wonderful hospitality. The Canadians were wonderful hosts to the Royal Air Force.
Carberry and Brandon were, of course, on the Canadian Prairies and whilst in hospital at Brandon, one night and day there was a terrible dust storm and despite the usual Canadian double glazing, everywhere inside the hospital was covered in black dust. This is probably of little interest but to me at the time was an amazing phenomenom.
Now it was back to reality and a posting to 31 Bombing & Gunnery School at Picton, Ontario. A two day journey by train around the North Shore of Lake Superior to Toronto and Belleville and then twenty plus miles down a dirt road to Picton. The airfield still exists, on high ground, overlooking the town on the shores of Lake Ontario. The bombing targets were moored out in the lake and air gunnery practice took place out over the lake.
The weather during this spell was very hot and flying was limited to a period from very early morning until midday. Canadian built Ansons were used for bombing practice and Bolingbrokes, which were Canadian built Blenheims, were used for air to air gunnery practice. The target drogues were towed by Lysanders.
Nothing outstanding took place at Picton except perhaps for our passing out party which we held in Belleville. In my case, being full of Canadian rye whisky of the
[page break]
bootleg variety I literally passed out and for many years afterwards could not even stand the smell of strong spirits.
Having recovered from the passing out the next stop was No. 33 Air Navigation School, RAF Mount Hope, Hamilton. Ontario. Mount Hope is now Hamilton Airport. Navigation training in Ansons was fairly uneventful and ended with us receiving our Sergeants stripes and the coveted “O” brevet. (Known to all as the flying arsehole) The “O” brevet was soon to be replaced with brevets more appropriate to the trade of the wearer, ie “B” for Airbombers, “N” for Navigators, etc. Next it was back to Moncton for the return to the UK.
The return voyage was on the ‘Mauritania’ where there were only 50 sergeant aircrew who were to act as guards on the ship which was transporting a large number of American troops. O/c. Troops on the ship was a Royal Air Force Squadron Leader. To our amazement when the Americans boarded the ship they had no idea where they were going. Most seemed to think they were going to Iceland and when we told them Liverpool was our destination they could not believe it. We were asked where we picked up the convoy and when we told them we did not go in convoy this caused a great deal of consternation. All the troopships going back and forth between the UK and North America were too fast to be in convoys and fast zig zag runs were made across the Atlantic. It was very long odds against the likelihood of encountering a U Boat..
Having safely arrived in Liverpool our next temporary home was yet another ‘holding unit’.
[page break]
Chapter III. Flying Training Command.
This time it was the Grand Hotel in Harrogate overlooking the famous Valley Gardens.
The RAF had taken over both the Grand and Majestic Hotels. Sadly the Grand has now gone. I rcall our CO at the Grand was Squadron Leader L E G Ames the England cricketer. Time at Harrogate awaiting posting was filled by swimming, drill, the usual time filling lectures, etc. We did, of course, get what was known as disembarkation leave. I went home and whilst there my granddad, with whom I had always had a very close relationship, took ill and died at the age of 85 and I was very grateful that I had been able to talk to him and to attend the funeral.
Christmas was spent at Harrogate, there being a ban on service travel during the Christmas period. On, I believe, Boxing Day, Maxie Booth and myself were in Harrogate, fed up and far from home, when we were approached by a chap who asked if we were doing anything that night, to which we replied “No”. He then said he was having a small party at home that night and had two Air Ministry girls billeted wit6h his family and would we like to join them. We readily accepted and when we arrived at the party we found that one of the girls was Maxie’s cousin. Small world! Still at Harrogate on my birthday 2 February, now at the ripe old age of 20. My room mates contrived to get me very drunk. I will spare you the details.
After a short time we were posted to Kirkham, Lancs to yet another holding unit, for a couple of weeks and then onward to Penrhos, North Wales, 9(O) Advanced Flying Unit for bombing practice. We were using Ansons and 10lb practice bombs. In Canada the Ansons had hydraulic undercarriages but at Penrhos they were Mk1 Ansons and it was the Bombaimers job to wind up the undercarriage by hand. A hell
[page break]
of a lot of turns on the handle – not much fun.
Next move was to Llandwrog, Nr. Caernarvon for the Navigation part of the Course. Same aircraft flying on exercises mainly over the Irish Sea, N. Ireland, Isle of Man, etc. Llandwrog is now Caernarvon airport with an interesting small museum. [handwritten in margin] museum since closed [handwritten in margin]. Llandwrog was unusual in that the airfield and our living site were below sea level, a dyke between us and the Irish Sea. Because of this there was no piped water or drainage on our site and it was necessary to carry a ‘small pack’ and do our ablutions at the main domestic site which was above sea level. I, and a pal or two went into Caernarvon for a weekend in the Prince of Wales Hotel to get a bit of a civilised existence for a change. However our stay at Llandwrog was quite brief.
The 1st. March 1944 was very significant in that it marked the move from Flying Training Command to Bomber Command. 83 Operational Training Unit at Peplow in Shropshire. Never heard of Peplow? Neither had I, it is a few miles North of Wellington. [handwritten in margin] Peplow was formerly Childs Ercall – renamed to avoid conflict with High Ercall airfield, nearby, I understood. [handwritten in margin] We arrived by train at Peplow, in the dark, station ‘lit’ by semi blacked out gas lamps. Arriving at Peplow were Pilots, Navigators, Bombaimers, Wireless Operators and Gunners from different training establishments.
Somehow, the next day, we sorted ourselves out into crews of six, Pilot, Nav, Bombaimer, W/Op and two gunners and were ready to start the business of Operational flying as a bomber crew.. We had never met each other before but were to spend the next few months living together, flying together and relying on each other, and developing a unique comradeship..
Peplow was notable for several things. From our living site, the nearest Pub was five miles in any direction. Having twice walked in different directions to prove the
[page break]
mileage we quickly acquired pushbikes. At that time there were no sign posts. One night doing ‘circuits and bumps’ in a Wellington we were in the ’funnel’ on the approach to the runway, skipper put the flaps down and the aircraft started to make a turn to port which he could not control. He ordered me to pull up the flaps and he then regained control. We then climbed to a respectable height and skip asked me to lower the flaps. The same thing happened again, an uncontrollable turn to port and quickly losing height. Flaps pulled up and normal service resumed. Skip then got permission from Air Traffic to make a flapless landing which he managed without running out of runway. We taxied back to dispersal and on inspection found that when the flaps were lowered only the port side flaps came down. Apparently a tie rod between port and starboard must have come apart. Could have been nasty!
On a lighter note, when cycling back to camp from Wellington one night I had a problem with the lights on my bike and was stopped by P.C Plod and booked for riding a bike without lights. Fined 10 shillings.
Another incident clearly imprinted on my mind was one day in class we were being given a lecture on the dinghy radio. I had heard all about the dinghy radio so many times I could almost recite it. I was sitting on the back row in class and I put my head back against the wall and must have dropped off. Suddenly a piece of chalk hit the wall at the side of my head. I awoke with a start and the guy giving the lecture (A Flying Officer) said, “I suppose Sergeant, you know all about dinghy radio”. To which I foolishly replied “Yes Sir”. He then said “In that case you can come out and continue the lecture”. Even more foolishly I did.
When finished I was asked to stay behind to receive an almighty bollocking for being a smartarse.
Finally whilst at Peplow a young lady I met in Wellington gave me a red scarf for
[page break]
luck and after that my crew would never let me fly without it.
We were now getting down to the serious business of preparing for actual operations and on the 24.5.44 we were despatched on an actual operation which was known as a ‘nickel’ raid, leaflet dropping over France, a place called ‘Criel’. 4 hours 35 minutes airborne in a Wellington bomber.
[Where is chapter IV?]
Chapter V. No. 1 Group Bomber Command.
On the 26th. June we were on the move again, ever nearer to being on an operational Squadron in Bomber Command. This was to 1667 Conversion Unit at Sandtoft where we were to convert to four engine aircraft ‘Halifaxes’. These were Halifax II & V which were underpowered and notoriously unreliable and had been withdrawn from front line service. In fact Sandtoft was affectionately known as ‘Prangtoft’ because of the large number of flying accidents. One of my pals from Harrogate days, Harry Fryer, got the chop in a Halifax that crashed near Crowle.
So that I do not give any wrong ideas, let me say, the Halifax III with radial engines was a superb aircraft and equipped No. 4 Goup.
It was here at Sandtoft that we acquired the seventh member of our crew, a Flight Engineer, straight from RAF St. Athan and never having been airborne.
We obviously survived ‘Prangtoft’ and then moved on the 22 July to LFS (Lancaster Finishing School) at Hemswell, which supplied crews to No. 1 Group, Bomber Command, which was the largest main force group flying Lancasters. We were only two weeks at Hemswell, the sole object being to familiaise[sic] with the
[page break]
Queen of the skies, the LANCASTER. A beautiful aeroplane, very reliable, able to fly easily with two dead engines on one side, and to withstand considerable battle damage and still remain airborne.
Chapter VI. The Tour of Operations. 103 Squadron.
Now for the real thing. On the 10th August we joined 103 Squadron at Elsham Wolds, in North Lincolnshire.
At this point I should like to introduce our crew:
P/O George Knott. Pilot & Skipper.
F/Sgt. Ron Archer. Navigator.
F/Sgt. Bill Bailey. Bombaimer.
F/Sgt. Gus Leigh. Wireless Opeator.
F/Sgt. Wally Williams. Flight Engineer.
F/Sgt. Jock Greig. Midupper Gunner.
F/Sgt. Paddy Anderson. Rear Gunner.
After a bit more training we eventually embarked on our first operation on the 29th,. August. I now propose to go through our complete tour of Operations as recorded in my flying log book and other documents.
Before doing that perhaps I should give an insight into Squadron procedure. We were accommodated in nissen huts on dispersed sites in the vicinity of the airfield, two Crews to a hut. The huts were sleeping quarters only and were heated by a solid fuel stove in the centre. Bloody cold in the bleak Lincolnshire winter. The messes were on the main domestic site. Every morning (provided there was no call out in the night)
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it was to the mess for breakfast, check if there was an Order of Battle and if you were on it. If not, we made our way to the flight offices and section leaders. I would go to the Bombing Leader’s office where we would review the previous operation and look at target photographs. Releasing the bombs over the target also activated a camera which took line overlap pictures from the release point to impact on the ground.. We would then return to the mess to await the next orders or perhaps take an aircraft on air test, although after ‘D’ day this practice was discontinued because the aircraft were kept bombed up in a state readiness. Temporarily at least Bomber Command was being used in a close support role to assist the Armies in France.
When a Battle Order was issued, the nominated crews assembled in the briefing room at the appointed time and when everyone was present the doors were closed and guarded. On a large wall map of Europe in front of us was a red tape snaking across the map from Base to the designated target. The length of the tape dictated the reaction of the assembled company.
Pilots, Navigators and Bombaimers did their pre-flight planning prepared maps and charts ready to go. Each crew member received a small white bag into which he emptied his pockets of everything. The seven bags were then put into one larger bag and handed to the intelligence office until our return. We, in turn, were given our ‘escape kits’ and flying rations. The escape kit was for use in the event of being shot down and trying to evade capture and return to England. We also carried passport size photographs which might enable resistance workers in occupied countries to get us fake identity documents. Phrase cards, compass, maps and currency notes were also included. The flying rations issued were mainly chocolate bars (very valuable at that time) also ‘wakey wakey pills’, caffeine tablets to be taken on the skipper’s orders. All ready to go. Collect parachutes, get into the crew buses and be ferried out to the
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Dispersals A visual check round the aircraft and then climb aboard. Start engines when ordered, close bomb doors, complete preflight checks and taxi to the end of the runway. The airfield controller’s cabin was located at the side of the runway and on a green lamp from him, open the throttles and roll. We were on our way. The Lancaster had an all up weight for take-off of 66000 lbs and needed the full runway, into wind, for a safe take-off. The maximum bomb load on a standard Lancaster was 7 tons but operating at maximum range the bomb load would be reduced to about 5 tons to accommodate a maximum fuel load.
On return from operations, after landing and returning to dispersal, shut down engines, climb down and await transport back to the briefing room for interrogation by intelligence officers. Hot drinks and tot of rum available and back to the mess for the customary egg, bacon and chips..
At this time were confined to camp because of the possibility of being of being[sic] called for short notice operations.
THE TOUR OF OPERATIONS.
No. 1 29.8.44 Target – STETTIN.
Checked Battle Order to find our crew allocated to PM-N.
Briefing for night attack on the Baltic Port of Stettin. Bomb load mainly incendieries.[sic] The route took us across the North Sea, over Northern Denmark, S.W. Sweden and then due South into the target, bomb and turn West to cross Denmark and the North Sea back to base. The force consisted of 402 Lancasters and 1 Mosquito of 1,3,6,& 8 Groups. It was a very successful attack and 23 Lancasters were lost. We suffered no damage from anti-aircraft fire and saw no fighters. Whilst crossing Sweden there was
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a certain amount of what was called friendly flak, shells bursting at about 10,000 ft whilst we were flying at 18000 ft
This was my first sight of a target and something I shall never forget, smoke, flames, bombbursts, searchlights, anti-aircraft fire. It was also very tiring having been airborne for 9 hours 25 minutes and flown some 2000 miles.
Used full quota of ‘wakey wakey’ pills.
No. 2. 31.8.44. Target .Flying Bomb launch site. AGENVILLE France.
Daylight attack, Master Bomber controlled This was one of several targets to be attacked in Northern France. Seemed like a piece of cake after the long trip to Stettin. Not so! We were briefed to bomb from 10,000 ft on the Master Bomber’s instructions. On approaching the target area there was 10/10 cloud and the call from the Master Bomber went like this: “Main Force – descent to 8,000ft and bomb on red TI’s (Target indicators). – no opposition” We descended to 8,000ft and immediately we broke cloud there were shells bursting around us, Fortunately dead ahead was the target and I called for bomb doors open and started the bombing run.. At the appropriate point I pressed the bomb release and nothing happened. A quick look revealed no lights on the bombing panel. Whilst I was checking the main fuse the rear gunner was calling “We are on fire Skip – there is smoke streaming past me” The ‘smoke’ proved to be hydraulic fluid which was vaporising. We climbed back into cloud and assessed the situation. Whilst in cloud we experienced severe icing and with the pitot head frozen we lost instruments which meant skip had no way of knowing the attitude[?] of the aircraft and for the one and only time in my flying career, we were ordered to prepare to abandon aircraft and I put on my parachute pack. However we emerged from cloud and normal service was resumed. We had no
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electrics, no hydraulics, bomb doors open and a full load of bombs still on board Skip decided to head for base via a North Sea designated dropping zone where I could jettison the bombs safely. This was accompanied by going back along the fuselage and using a highly technical piece of kit, a piece of wire with a hook on the end, pushing it down through a hole about each bomb carrier and tripping the release mechanism.
Having got rid of the bombs it was back to base, crossing the coast at a spot where we should not have been and risking being shot at by friendly Ack Ack gunners. We arrived back at base some one and a half hours late. Now for the tricky bit. The undercarriage, in the absence of hydraulic fluid, had to be blown down by compressed air. This was an emergency procedure and could only be tried once, a now or never situation. Now we have to make a flapless landing and hope that the landing gear is locked down and does not collapse when we land. Not being able to use flaps means the landing speed is greater than normal and then we have no brakes. Skip made a super landing but once on the runway could only throttle back and wait for the aircraft to roll to a stop. This it did right at the end of the runway.
On inspection after return to dispersal it appeared that a shell or shells had burst very near to the bomb bay and shrapnel had severed hydraulic pipes and electric cables in the bomb bay. I should think we were very close to having been blown to bits. This trip was a little bit sobering to say the least. The aircraft resembled a pepper pot but luckily no one was injured.
No. 3 3.9.44 Target Eindhoven Airfield, Holland. Daylight Operation.
Allocated to PM-X (N having been severely damaged on our last sortie)
A straight forward attack on the airfield, one of six airfields in Southern Holland
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attacked by.675 aircraft a mixture of 348 Lancasters and 315 Halifaxes and 12 Mosquitoes, all very successful raids and only one Halifax lost.
This was my first experience of the ‘Oboe’ target marking system now used by Pathfinders flying Mosquitoes.. A very accurate system – the markers were right in the middle of the runway intersections. Very impressive.
No.4 5.9.44. Target – Defensive positions around LE HAVRE.
Aircraft allocated PM-W. Bomb load 15,000 lbs High Explosives. Daylight operation.
This attack was in support of Canadian troops who were demanding the surrender of the German garrison. The first phase of Lancasters orbited the target awaiting the outcome. This was negative and the attack took place. In clear visibility our riming point was 2000 yards in front of the Canadian troops and the area around the aiming point was completely destroyed.
No.5 10.9.44 Target – LE HAVRE again. Daylight operation.
Aircraft allocated PM-E Bomb load 15000 lbs High Explosive. Daylight operation. 992 aircraft attacked 8 difference German strongpoints only yards in front of Canadian troops. All were bombed accurately. No aircraft were lost.
No.6 12.9.44. Target FRANKFURT. Night operation.
Aircraft allocated PM-G. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
This was an unusual operation in that we were one of several crews who were briefed to bomb 5 minutes ahead of main force, identifying the aiming point ourselves. The
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object was to occupy the defences whilst the pathfinders went in low to mark the aiming point for main force. Our route to target took us South into France, near Strasbourg and then a turn North East towards Frankfurt. Our navigator Ron at some point realised we were well off track because he was getting wrong positions due to distortion of the ‘Gee chain’, wither by jamming or almost out of range.
As well as being bombaimer I was also the H2S radar operator and so I switched this on to try to verify our position I managed to identify Mannheim on the screen and was then able, with Ron, to fix a course to the target. As we approached the target there were hundreds of searchlights but instead of combing the sky they were laid along the ground in the direction of our track. It took a few minutes to realise that what they were doing was putting a carpet of light on the ground so that any fighters above us would have us silhouetted against the light. Gunners be extra vigilant! I dropped the bombs and we headed for base without incident. Intelligence reports said it was a very successful attack.
No. 7 17.9.44 Target Ammunition Dump at THE HAGUE, Holland Daylight.
Aircraft allocated PM-B, Bomb load 15000lbs Gen. Purpose bombs.
This attack by 27 Lancasters of 103 Squadron only and was carried out without loss.
No. 8 24.9.44. Target CALAIS. Close support for the Army. Daylight.
Allocated aircraft PM-B Bomb load 15000 lbs GP Bombs.
103 & 576 Squadrons were chosen to attack this target, gun emplacements, at low level (2000 ft) in the interests of accuracy. The weather was atrocious, almost as soon as we got off the runway we were in cloud. However we set course for Calais flying
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at around 1000 ft so as to keep the ground in view. As we approached the Channel the cloud lifted a bit and we were able to climb to 2000 ft but as we approached the target the cloud base lowered again and we had to descend again to 1000 ft for the bombing run. A we approached the aiming point, I was lying in the nose and could see everything on the ground. And being in the best position to see what was going on. could see where I thought the worst of the anti-aircraft fire, and indeed small arms fire was coming from.. I therefore ‘suggested’ to skip that when I say “bombs gone” you put her over hard to port and get down on the deck. Bugger the target photograph, we’ll have a picture of the sky! George did this and where we would have been if we had gone straight on whilst the camera operated, were shell bursts. We got out of that unscathed. Of the 27 aircraft that started that attack, one was lost, 8 landed away with various degrees of battle damage and of the remainder only 3 aircraft returned to base undamaged. “B” was one of them. As Ron recorded in his notes “Oppositions – everything”.
No. 9 26.9.44. Target Gunsites at Cap Gris Nez Daylight.
Allocated aircraft PM-B Bomb load 15000 lbs GP Bombs.
This was a highly concentrated and successful attack with very little opposition. Obtained a very good aiming point photograph.
No. 10 27,9,44.
We were briefed to bomb in the Calais area again on 27th. Sept but this operation was aborted due to the bombsight being unserviceable.
This ended our operational career at 103 Squadron. Only two of our operations had been at night.
Ourselves and one other crew from ‘A’ flight were transferred to 166 Squadron at
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Kirmington, one of the three stations forming 13 Base, to form a new ‘A’ flight at 166.Squadron.
As a matter of interest, Kirmington is now South Humberside Airport. Before moving on to the next phase I should explain that operational aircrew were given six days leave every six weeks which will explain some of the gaps in the story.
Chapter VII. The Tour of Operations. 166 Squadron.
166 Squadron, Kirmington, Lincs.
When we arrived at Kirmington we were allocated a hut on a dispersed site in Brocklesby Wood, about as far as could be from the airfield. Primitive living arrangements, but not too far from the Sergeants Mess.
By now we were no longer confined to camp and “liberty buses” were run from camp to Grimsby and Scunthorpe. Most of us used to go to ‘Sunny Scunny’ where there was a cinema two well known pubs, The Bluebell and The Oswald, the latter became known as 1 Group Headquarters. This establishment had a large function room with a
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minutes after other aircraft had set course. We took part on second aiming point and catching up 20 minutes on round trip landed No.3 back at base.
No. 14 28.10.44 Target COLOGNE
Allocated aircraft AS-D Bomb Load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
Daylight operation. 733 aircraft despatched to devastate residential areas in NW of the City There was heavy flak opposition and our aircraft suffered some minor damage A piece of shrapnel came through the Perspex dome in front of me whilst I was crouched over the bombsight It hit me on the shoulder on my parachute harness but did me no harm.
This was a very good operation as ordered.
No. 15 29.10.44. Target Gunsites at DOMBURG. Walcheren Island, Holland. Allocated aircraft AS-M Bomb Load 15000 lbs HE. Daylight attack. 6 aircraft from 166 squadron together with 19 others attacked 4 aiming points. All were accurately bombed. There was no opposition.
No. 16 30.10.44. Target COLOGNE, Night operation.
Allocated aircraft AS-K Bomb Load 1x4000lb Cookie plus 9000 lbs HE.
No. 1 Group was assigned to attack aiming point which was not successfully attacked on 28th. October. Over the target there was clear visibility, moderate flak opposition. This was considered to have been a very good attack.
It was on this operation, whilst we were on the bombing run an aircraft exploded ahead of us. At least I believe it was an aircraft although the Germans used a device which we called a “scarecrow”. This was a pyrotechnic device which exploded to
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simulate an exploding aircraft. Presumable meant to put the frighteners on us!
On the 31,.10.44 we were again briefed to attack Cologne but having climbed to operating height a crew check by the Skipper revealed that Paddy our rear gunner was unconscious in his turret. Gus, wireless op went back and pulled him from the turret and onto the rest bed in the centre of the aircraft. He fitted him up with a portable oxygen bottle and skip made the decision to abort and return to base where an ambulance was waiting to whisk paddy[sic] off to sick bay. Apparently the problem had been a trapped oxygen pipe in the turret. We had been airborne for 2hrs 15 mins.
To depart for the moment from the tour of operations, it was about this time when I developed at[sic] rash on my face which turned to a weeping eczema which meant that I could not shave and I had to report sick. The Doc took a look and said, “OK You’re grounded”. I replied “You can’t do that Doc, my crew will have to take a spare bombaimer and I shall have to complete my tour with other crews”. After pleading my case Doc agreed to allow me to continue flying provided each time before flying I reported to Sick Quarters and had a dressing put on my face so that I could wear my oxygen mask. The Doc was treating me with various creams which had little or no effect until one day the WAAF medical orderly who applied the treatment said to the Doc “Why don’t we try a starch poultice”. The Doc suggested that was an old wives remedy. However as nothing else had worked he agreed to let the Waaf[sic] give it a try. I know not where this young lady learned her skills because I gathered she was a hairdresser in civvie street, in Leicester, my home town. She applied the said poultice and the next day I reported back to sick quarters where she removed the poultice and whatever was clinging to it. I went back to our hut and very carefully shaved. The starch poultice had done the trick. I thought frostbite had probably caused the
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problem in the first place but I was to learn some months later the real cause which I shall reveal later in the story.
No. 17. 2.11.44. Target DUSSELDORF. Night operation.
Aircraft allocated AS-C. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie and 9000 lbs HE.
“C” Charlie was now to become our regular aircraft, for which we developed a great affection and a very special relationship with the ground crew.
992 aircraft attacked Dusseldorf of which 11 Halifaxes and 8 Lancasters were lost. It was a very heavy and concentrated attack with extensive damage and loss of life. This was the last major Bomber Command raid of the war on Dusseldorf.
At about his [this] time friendships were struck up. In my case I was returning from leave and whilst waiting for my train at Lincoln Station to Barnetby (where I had left my bike) I met a Waaf, also returning from leave and who was, surprise, surprise stationed at Kirmington. I asked how she was getting from Barnetby to Kirmington and she said she was walking. No prizes for guessing that she got back to Kirmington on the crossbar of my bike. (No it was not a ladies bike). We became good friends and she along with others, would be standing alongside the airfield controllers cabin at the end of the runway to wave us off on operations.
Also at about his [this] time George and Gus acquired friends from the Waaf personnel, one of whom was a telephonist and the other a R/T operator in the control tower. When returning from operations George would call up base as soon as he was able, to get instructions to join the circuit. First to call would get the 1000’ slot and first to land. The procedure then was to make a circuit of the airfield around the ‘drem’ system of lights, report on the downwind leg and again when turning into the funnels on the
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approach to the runway. We would then be given the OK to land or if there was a runway obstruction, go round again. I understand that word was passed to those who wished to know that “Knott’s crew were in the circuit.”
No. 18. 4.11.44. Target BOCHUM. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000lbs HE.
749 aircraft attacked this target. Unusually Halifaxes of 4 Group slightly out numbered Lancasters. 23 Halifaxes and 5 Lancasters were lost. No. 346 (Free French) Squadron, based at Elvington, lost 5 out of its 16 Halifaxes on the raid. Severe damage was caused to the centre of Bochum, particularly the important steelworks.
This was the last major raid by Bomber Command on this target
It was about at this on return from an operation, I felt the need of a stimulant and so, instead of giving my tot of rum to Jock, I put it into my ovaltine, which curdled and I ended up with something resembling soup and a chastising from Jock for wasting ‘valuable rum’.
No. 19. 11.11.44. Target DORTMUND Oil Plant. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load, 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000lb HE.
.209 Lancasters, all 1 Group, plus 19 Mosquitoes from 8 Group (Pathfinders) attacked this target. The aiming point was a synthetic oil plant. A local report confirmed that the plant was severely damaged. No aircraft were lost.
No. 20 21.11.44. Minelaying Operations in OSLO FJORD Norway.
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Aircraft AS-E. Bomb load 6 x 1800 lb Accoustic[sic] and Magnetic Mines.
Six Lancasters from 166 Squadron and 6 from 103 Squadron detailed to plant ‘vegetables’ in Oslo Fjord. AS-E to mine a channel half a mile wide, between an island and the mainland. This was to catch U Boats based in the harbour at MANNS. The attack was carried out at low level and required a very accurate bombing run.. It was a major sin to drop mines on land as they were classified Secret This was a highly successful operation with no opposition and no aircraft lost. Time airborne 6hrs 45mins
No. 21. 27.11.44. Target “FREIBURG” S.W. Germany. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
Freiburg was not an industrial town and had not been bombed by the RAF before. However. No. 1 Group 341 Lancasters, which was maximum effort for the Group, plus 10 Mosquitoes from 8 Group, were called upon to support the French Army in the Strasbourg sector. It is believed the Freiburg was full of German troops. The target was accurately marked using the ‘OBOE’ technique from caravans based in France. 1900 tons of bombs were dropped on the target from 12000 ft in the space of 25 minutes. Casualties on the ground were extremely high. There was little opposition and only one aircraft was lost…
On this operation we carried a second pilot as a prelude to his first operation. He Was Charles Martin, a New Zealander and he and his crew were to claim “C” Charlie as their own when Knott’s crew had finished their tour. Martin’s wireless operator was Jim Wright, who now runs 166 Squadron Association and is the author of “On Wings of War”, the history of 166 Squadron.
This crew completed their tour on “C” Charlie and the aircraft survived the war.
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No. 22. 29.11.44. Target DORTMUND. Daylight operation,
“C” Charlie. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 9000 lbs HE.
This was no ordinary operation, 294 Lancasters from 1 Group plus the usual quota of Mosquitoes from 8 Group. At briefing we were told that as Bomber Command had been venturing into Germany and particularly Happy Valley in daylight, and, unlike the Americans, had not been attacked by large numbers of fighters, there was concern that because of our techniques in Bomber Command, each aircraft making its own way to the target in the Bomber stream, we might be very vulnerable to fighter attack. We could not possibly adopt the American system of flying in mass formations and do some boffin somewhere had come up with the ‘brilliant’ idea that we should indulge in gaggle flying. No practice, mind, just – this what you do chaps – get on with it.. The idea was that 3 Lancasters would have their tail fins painted bright yellow and would be the leading ‘Vic’ formation. All other aircraft would take off, find another squadron aircraft and formate on it. Each pair would then pack in together behind the leading ‘vic’ and the lead Navigator would do the navigating with the rest of the force following. The route on the flight plan took us across Belgium crossed the Rhine between Duisburg and Dusseldorf then passing Wuppertal and North East into the target area. All went well until we were approaching the Rhine when the lead navigator realised we were two minutes early. It was important not to be early or we would arrive on target before the pathfinders had done their job. The technique for losing two minutes was to do a two minute ‘dog-leg’. When ordered by the lead nav, this involved doing a 45 degrees starboard turn, two minutes flying, 90 degree port turn, 2 minutes flying, 45 degree starboard turn and we were then back on track.
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Unfortunately the apex of the dog-leg took us directly over Dusseldorf, a town which was very heavily defended. All the flak in the world came up, especially among the three lead aircraft and suddenly there were Lancs going in all directions. I actually saw a collision between two aircraft which both spiralled earthwards. Once clear of this shambles we found we were now in the lead and so we continued to the target and there being no markers down, apparently due to bad weather, I followed standard instructions and bombed what I could see. We had suffered slight flak damage but nothing to affect “C” Charlies[sic] flying capabilities and we arrived back at base 5 hours 35 mins after take-off. Six Lancasters were lost.
This was our one and only experience of ‘gaggle flying’.
No. 23. 4.12.44. Target KARLSRUHE. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
The railway marshalling yards were attacked by 535 aircraft. Marking and bombing were accurate and severe damage was caused. A machine tool factory was also destroyed. 1 Lancaster and 1 Mosquito were lost.
No. 24. 6.12.44. Target Synthetic Oil Plants “MERSEBERG LEUNA” Nr. Leipzig.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie 6000 lbs mixed HE.
475 Lancasters and 12 Mosquitoes were called upon to destroy Germany’s largest synthetic oil plant following numerous ineffective raids by the U.S. Air Force. This was the first major attack on an oil target in Eastern Germany and was some 500 miles from the bomber bases in England. “C” Charlie and crew were detailed to support pathfinder force (We were now considered to be an experienced crew). This meant we were to attack six minutes before main force. Weather conditions were
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very poor and marking was scarce and it was thought the attack was not very effective. However, post raid photographs showed that considerable damage had been caused to the synthetic oil plant and it was later revealed that the plant manager reported that the attack put the plant out of action and the second attack on 14.1.45 was not really necessary. 5 Lancasters were lost.
No.25. 12.12.44. Target ESSEN. Night attack.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie 10000 lbs HE bombs.
This was the last heavy night raid on Essen by 540 aircraft of Bomber Command. Even the Germans paid tribute to the accuracy of the bomb pattern on this raid which was thanks to “OBOE” marking by pathfinder Mosquitoes.
6 Lancasters lost.
No. 26. 13.12.44. Target Seamining [?] KATTEGAT. Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 6 x 1800 lbs mines.
6 aircraft from 166 Squadron and 6 from 103 Squadron were detailed to lay mines in the Kattegat. This force took off in poor visibility but over the dropping zone the weather was good. On this occasion the mines were to be dropped using the blind bombing technique. I was to use the H2S radar which was a ground mapping radar. The dropping point was a bearing and distance from an identifiable point on the coast which gave a good return on the radar. On reaching the dropping point the pilot had to steer a pre-determined course and I had to release the mines at say, one minute intervals. The H2S screen was photographed so that the intelligence bods back at base could check that the mi8nes had been put down in the right place. In this case – spot on!! We then received a signal from base informing that the weather had
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clamped and we were diverted to Lossiemouth. We landed at Lossie having been airborne for 5 hrs 45 mins. At Lossie we were given beds and of course food, with the intention of returning to Kirmington the following morning.
The next morning we were given the Ok to return to Kirmington and went out to the aircraft. One engine failed to start and a faulty starter motor was diagnosed. A replacement was to be flown up from Kirmington. There we were dressed in flying kit with no money or toilet requisites and not knowing when the aircraft would be serviceable It certainly would not be today. We managed to secure a bit of cash from accounts and towels, etc from stores. That night Jock and I decided to go out on the town breaking all the rules about being out in public improperly dressed. However we got away with it. On the 17yth. “C” Charlie was serviceable and we were permitted to return to Kirmington. When we joined the circuit we could see Flying Fortresses on our dispersals having been diverted in the day before. The weather was certainly bad in the winter of 44/45.. The Americans crews allowed us to look over their Fortresses and we in turn invited them to look at our Lancaster. Their main interest centred on the Lancaster’s enormous bomb bay compared with their own.
21/12/44/ Seamining BALTIC Night operation.
Aircraft AS-H. Bomb load. 5 x 1800 lb mines.
This operation was aborted shortly after take-off due to the unserviceability of the H2S which was essential for the accurate laying of the mines. The visibility at base was very poor and we were given permission for one attempt at landing and if unsuccessful we were to divert to Carnaby in Yorkshire which was one of three diversion airfields with very long runways and overshoot facilities. We therefore
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jettisoned fuel to reduce the landing weight and made the approach. The airfield controller was firing white Very lights into the air over the end of the runway to guide us. We crept in over trees in Brocklesby Wood, trees which had claimed other Lancasters coming in too low, and made a perfect wheeled landing. It does not bear thinking about what would have happened if the undercarriage had collapsed, we were sitting on top of 9000 lbs of High Explosive. Good work skipper! Did not count as an operation.
The Squadron had a stand down at Christmas and on Christmas Day there was much merriment and a fair amount of booze put away and we went to bed a bit the worse for wear. It was therefore a bit upsetting to be got out of bed at 3am on Boxing Day morning, sent for an Ops meal and told to report for briefing at some unearthly hour. So to operation No. 27.
No. 27.. 26.12.44. Target “ST-VITH” Daylight operation.
Aircraft ‘B’. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie and 10000lbs HE.
“The Battle of the Bulge”, the German offensive in the Ardennes was in progress. A large force from Bomber Command was called upon to support the American 1st. Army trying to stem the German advances in the Ardennes. The attack was concentrated on the town of St. Vith where the Germans were unloading panzers to join the battle.
The whole of Lincolnshire was blanketed in fog with ground visibility of only a few yards. After briefing we went out to the aircraft, climbed aboard and waited for the time to start engines. Just before time there were white Very Cartridges fired from the
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control tower which indicated the operation was scrubbed. We returned to the mess and were given a new time to go out to the aircraft. Another flying meal.
We went out to the aircraft again and had a repeat performance. Third time lucky, we sat in the aircraft and although there was still dense fog, time came to start engines. This time no scrub. A marshall appeared in front of the aircraft with tow torches signalling us to start taxying and we were guided to the end of the runway. A glimmer of a green from the airfield controller and we turned onto the runway, lined up, set the gyro compass and we roared off down the runway at 1.15pm. Airborne and climbing we came out of the fog at about 200 ft and it was just like flying above cloud. We set course according to our flight plan and visibility across France and Belgium was first class. No cloud and snow on the ground. We did not really need navigation aids, I was able to map read all the way to the target. Approaching the target area there were a few anti aircraft shell bursts and it was apparent the Germans had advanced quite a long way. We bombed from 10000ft and the bombing was very concentrated and accurate. In fact it was reported that 80% of the attacking aircraft obtained aiming point photographs.
It was now time to concern ourselves with the return to Kirmington. The fog was still there and the only 1 Group airfield open was Binbrook, high up on the Lincolnshire Wolds, which stuck out of the fog like an island. The whole of 1 Group landed at Binbrook. There were Lancasters parked everywhere. Whilst we were in the circuit awaiting our turn to land, I was looking out of the window and noticed a hole in the wing between the two starboard engines. When we had landed and shut down the engines, we went to look at the hole. On top of the wing it was very neat but on the underside there was jagged aluminium hanging down around the hole. Obviously a shell had gone up and passed through the wing on its way down, without exploding.
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An airframe fitter looked at the damage and said the aircraft was grounded. This meant that after interrogation we were allowed to return to Kirmington by bus and proceed on leave.
Our next operation was not until 5.1.45 but some of us returned early from leave to attend a New Year party in the WAAF mess which was actually situated in Kirmington Village.
No.28. 5.1.45. Target HANOVER Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load. 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus incendiaries.
325 Aircraft of Nos. 1 and 5 Groups were briefed for the second of a two pronged attack on Hanover.
Nos. 4 and 6 Groups had bombed the target two hours earlier with bomb loads of mainly incendiaries. When we crossed the Dutch coast, the fires could be seem[sic] from at least 100 miles away. Our track took us towards Bremen and was meant to mislead the enemy into believing that was our target. However we did a starboard turn short of Bremen and ran into Hanover from the North. The target was well bombed and rail yards put out of action. I don’t know what we did right but “C” Charlie arrived back at base 4 minutes before anyone else.
No. 29. 6.1.45. Seamining. STETTIN Bay. Night operation.
Aircraft AS-D. Bomb Load 6 x 1500lb Mines.
Knott and crew started their third and final gardening trip (As seamining was known) 48 aircraft of Bomber Command were detailed to plant ‘vegetables’ in the entrance to Stettin Harbour and other local areas. The enemy was able to pick up the force 100 miles North East of Cromer because bad weather condition forced us to fly at 15000
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ft to the target instead of the usual 2000ft,. As a result of this early warning enemy fighters were waiting and the target area was well illuminated by fighter flares. It was believed that the enemy thought this was a major attack on Berlin developing. Knott and crew dropped their vegetables in the allotted area, securing a good H2S photograph and again returned to base first.
No. 30. 14.1.45. Target MERSEBERG LEUNA (Again) Night operation.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000 lb Cookie plus 5500 lbs HE.
200 Aircraft attacked this target to finish off the job started on 6th December. A very successful attack.
No. 31. 16.1.45. Target Oil refinery ZEITZ Nr. Leipzig.
“C” Charlie. Bomb load 1 x 4000lb Cookie plus 6000 lbs GP Bombs.
This was the one we had been waiting for, our last operation. We went into briefing and were told by the intelligence officer that although we were being briefed the operation might be cancelled because a large force of Amercan[sic] Fortresses and Liberators had been to the target earlier in the day and a photo recce Mosquito had gone out to photograph the target and assess the results. Before the end of briefing it was confirmed that that[sic] the Americans had missed and our operation was on. At 1720 on the 16th January we took off on this operation. Over the target there were hundreds of searchlights, the markers were in the right place and we completed our bombing run. The target was well ablaze and there were massive explosions. At one point Paddy called out “We’re coned skip” meaning we were caught by searchlights.
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It was briefly very light in the cabin but the light was caused, not by searchlights but by the explosions from the target.
Of the 328 Lancasters that attacked the target, 10 were lost.
When we returned to base all of our ground crew, including one guy who had returned early from leave, were there to welcome us and join in a little celebration.
George Knott was awarded an immediate Distinguished Flying Cross, said to be a crew award for completing a tour of operations.
All seven of us were posted from Kirmington, on indefinite leave to await our next assignments.
Apart from activities in the Officers and Sergeants Messes, and trips into Scunthorpe where the “Oswald” was the central drinking point, the main point of activity was the pub in Kirmington village. The “Marrow Bone & Cleaver” or the “Chopper” as it was known, was the meeting place for all ranks. The pub is now a shrine to the Squadron, there is a memorial in the village, lovingly cared for by the villagers’ and memorial plaques in the terminal building at Humberside Airport.
There is also a stained glass window in Kirmington Church.
I have mentioned our off base activities but, of course, a lot of time was spent in the Mess and the radio was our main contact with the outside world. I think the most popular program was the AFN (American Forces Network). They had a program which I believe was called the “dufflebag program”. Glen Miller and all the big [inserted in margin] this sentence needs a verb! [/inserted in margin] bands of the day. The song “I’ll walk alone” was very popular and was recorded by several singers. The British one was Anne Shelton, an American whose name escapes me and another American called Lily Ann Carroll (Not sure about the spelling of that name). This girl had a peculiar voice but it had something about it.
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Since the war I have not been able to find anyone who ever heard of her but I did hear the record placed on one of the archives programs on BBC, two or three years ago. If anyone knows of Lily Ann Carroll I would love to know.
I can’t remember where it was but on one occasion when we were out together as a crew, someone asked what the “B” meant on my brevet. Quick as a flash Paddy jumped in “It means Big Bill Bailey the bastard Bombaimer”.
The completion of our tour of operations was of special relief to Gus Leigh, our wireless operator who incidentally had a few weeks earlier had[sic] been commissioned as Pilot Officer. Gus was married and his wife Enid was pregnant and lived in Kent. George our skipper had relatives who lived near Thorne which was quite near to Sandtoft and not really too far from Elsham and Kirmington so it was arranged that Enid would come to stay with George’s relatives and Gus would be able to see her fairly regularly. As we approached the end of our tour you can appreciate the tension. I was to hear later that after we had left Kirmington, Enid had a son and then suffered a massive haemorrhage and died. What irony, a baby that so easily could have been fatherless was now motherless.
Before leaving the scene of operations, so to speak, I would like to clear up one or two points.
I have often been asked the question, were you frightened? I can only speak for myself and maybe my crew. I don’t think ‘frightened’ was the right word, apprehensive, maybe but except for a very few, I believe all aircrew believed in their own immortality. It was always going to be the other guy who got the chop, never yourself. Had this not been the case then we would never have got into a Lancaster.
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Ron Archer used to tell me he thought we were the luckiest crew in Bomber Command.
There were, of course, a very few aircrew who lost their nerve and refused to fly. All aircrew were volunteers and could not be compelled to fly but if that became the case then they would be sent LMF (Lack of moral fibre) and would lose their flying badge and be reduced to the ranks.
Much has been said and written in recent years about the activities of Bomber Command and in particular our Commander in Chief, “Bomber” Harris. I believed then, and still believe that what was done was right. I did not bomb Dresden, but had I been ordered to do so, I would not have given it a second thought.
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Chapter VIII. Lossiemouth.
I was at home in Wigston, Leicestershire and my 21st birthday, the 2nd February was fast approaching. Parents and friends were trying to organise a party, meagre rations, permitting. They need not have worried because I received instructions to proceed immediately to 20 OUT Lossiemouth, At 9.30 pm the eve of my birthday I caught a train from South Wigston station to Rugby and then onto a train bound for Scotland. I arrived at Lossiemouth at 11pm and following day. What a way to spend a 21st birthday!
The next day having completed arrival procedures I duly reported to the Bombing Leader for duty. At the same time I discovered that George Knott had also been posted to Lossiemouth as a screened pilot. I flew with him ocassionally[sic] when he needed some ballast in the rear turret when doing an air test.
The role of 20 OUT was to train Free French Aircrew, again flying Wellingtons and my job was to fly with them on bombing exercises to check that they were using correct procedures. I used to say, “Patter in English please”, which was alright until they got a bit excited and lapsed into French. Bombing took place on Kingston Bombing Range, on the coast East of Lossiemouth. One of my other jobs was to plot the bombs on a chart using co-ordinates given by observers at quadrant points on the
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range. These were phoned through to the bomb plotting office. The student bombaimer then came to the office to see the results of his aiming efforts. 10 lb smoke bo9mbs were used for daylight bombing and 10 lb flash bombs for night bombing. In the summer at Lossie, night flying was almost impossible due to the short night in those Northern parts. It was quite common to take off after sunset and then see the sun set again.
After a few weeks I was attached from 20 OUT to 91 Group Airbomber instructors school at Moreton in Marsh for 3 weeks before becoming an official instructor. I returned to 20 OUT and shortly afterwards was again sent off on a course, this time to the Bomber Command Analysis School at Worksop. Here I became an alleged expert on the Mark XIV Bomsight.[sic] This was a gyro stabilised bombsight [sic] which was a tactical bombsight [sic] rather than a precision bombsight.[sic] It consisted of a computor[sic] box and a sighting head and obtained information of airspeed, height, temperature and course from aircraft instruments plus one or two manual settings and converted this information into a sighting angle. The only piece of vital information to be added was the wind speed and direction which had to be calculated by the Navigator. The bombaimer was then able to do a bombing run without the necessity of flying straight and level.. It took account of climbing, a shallow dive and banking. The sequence of events when bombing was, when the bomb release (hereafter called the ‘tit’ [)]was pressed several things happened, the bombs started to be released in the order set on the automatic bomb distributor, so that they were dropped in a ‘stick’. The photoflash was released, the camera started to operate and as the bombs reached the point of impact almost immediately beneath the aircraft, the photographs were taken. Having used this equipment for the whole of my tour of operations I can vouch for its performance. The Americans had their much vaunted Norden and Sperry Bombsights [sic]
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which were claimed to be very accurate but required the aircraft to maintain a straight and level flight path for an unacceptable time against heavily defended targets. The Mk XIV was so good that the Americans adopted it for their own aircraft and called it the T1 Bombsight. Many T1’s were used by the RAF in lieu of the MkXIV. A matter of production I guess.
On my return from Worksop, with glowing reports from my two courses, the Bombing Leader said “OK Flight Sergeant you had better apply for a commission.” This I did and after going through all the procedures was commissioned in the rank of Pilot Officer (198592) on the 5th June, 1945.
Of course ‘VE’ Day took place on the 5th May after which it was only a matter of time before the OTU’s were run down and in the case of Lossiemouth this was to be sooner rather than later. The Wellingtons were all flown down to Hawarden in Cheshire for eventual disposal, I must record one tragic incident which happened whilst I was at Lossiemouth. One Sunday morning a Wellington took off on air test and lost an engine on take-off and the pilot was obviously trying to make a crash landing on the beach to the East of Seatown. He didn’t make it and crashed on top of a small block of maisonettes killing most of the inhabitants who were still in bed. A tragic accident!
The question now arose as to where next we would all go. We were given the option of being made redundant aircrew, going to another OTU or going back to an operational Squadron. My problem was solved for me, ‘Johnnie’ Johnson, ‘A’ Flight Commander, came into the plotting office and said “I’m going back on ops, I want a bombaimer”. Thus I joined his crew and other instructors made up a full crew with the exception of a flight engineer, all having done a first tour. Johnnie had to revert
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from his Squadron Leader rank to Flight Lieutenant. All the other members of the crew were officers.
Chapter IX Tiger Force.
On the 6th. July we went to 1654 Conversion Unit at Wigsley, were not wanted there and were sent to 1660 Conversion Unit at Swinderby. It was necessary to do a conversion course becaused[sic] Johnnie had done his first tour on Halifaxes and needed to convert to Lancasters. We also picked up a Flight Engineer who was actually a newly trained pilot, who had also done a flight engineers course, there now being a surplus of pilots. He happened to be a lad I knew from my ATC days.
We were now part of “Tiger Force” which was 5 Group renamed and we were to fly the Lancasters out to Okinawa to join in the attack on Japan. The Lancasters would shortly be replaced by the new Lincoln bombers which were bigger, more powerful and had a longer range.
We commenced our training, for my part I had to familiarise myself with ‘Loran’ which was a long range Gee for use in the Pacific. I did say earlier in the story that I would tell you about my ‘rash’. At Swinderby I had a recurrence and immediately reported sick. The Doc took a look at me and said “Oh! We know what that is, it is oxygen mask dermatitis, when you sweat your skin is allergic to rubber. We will make you a fabric mask. Problem solved. The new mask was not needed, however,
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because the war ended and with it my flying career.
VJ Day was a wild affair, In the “Halfway House” pub at Swinderby my brand new officer’s cap was filled with beer when I left it on a stool.
In a final salute to the mighty Lancaster, Swinderby had an open day to celebrate the end of the war and the Chief Flying Instructor, the second on three, the third on two and finally the fourth on one engine. What an aeroplane! What a pilot!
Chapter X The last chapter.
There followed a strange period. First to Acaster Malbis, nr York where all redundant Aircrew handed in their flying kit. Then to Blyton, Nr. Gainsborough where we were given a choice of alternative traded. Seldom did anyone get their first choice and I was chosen to become an Equipment Officer and after a brief spell at Wickenby was posted to the Equipment Officers School at RAF Bicester. A four week course and I was meant to be a fully qualified equipment officer. I was posted to Scampton but not needed there and so was posted on to RAF Cosford where I was put in charge of the technical stores. The Chief Equipment Officer was fairly elderly Wing Commander who took me under his wing and kept a fatherly eye on me. The Royal Air Force was beginning to return to peacetime status and Wingco[sic] warned me that it was probably not a good idea to fraternize with my ex Aircrew NCO’s in the “Shrewsbury Arms”. If you must, get on your bikes and go further afield, was his advice.
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One Monday morning I was called up to the WingCo’s office to be asked “Where is F/Sgt. Brown (Not his real name) this morning”. “I don’t know sir” I replied. “Well I will tell you” he said. “He is under arrest at Shifnal Police Station”
This particular ex Aircrew NCO lived in a village quite near to Cosford and had permission to ‘live out’. It transpired that almost everyone in his village had new curtains made from RAF bunting and quite a few people were wearing RAF or Waaf shoes. I was ordered to do a stock check on my section and for his part he was charged by the Civil Police and at Shifnal Magistrates Court received little more than a slap on the wrist. No doubt his war service stood him in good stead. Because he had been dealt with by the Civil Courts he could not be charged and Court Martialled by the RAF and all that happened was that he was posted away from Cosford and released early into civvie street.
At the time, lots of POW’s were passing through Cosford on their way from POW Camps in Europe to their homes.
Monthly “Dining In” nights were also resumed in the Officers Mess. Due to officers leaving the station or being demobbed, at every “Dining In” we were “Dining Out” those departing., always ending in a wild party. I remember one night which was extremely boisterous ending with Bar Rugby, footprints on the ceiling, the lot. I had better leave to the imagination how the footprints on the ceiling were achieved. That night I went to bed at about 3 am and when I went in to breakfast the following morning the mess was immaculate. The staff had obviously been up all night cleaning up.
On the 4th. November 1946 I received my final posting from Cosford to Headquarters Technical Training Command, at Brampton Nr. Huntingdon to be Unit Equipment
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Officer. The Headquarters Unit consisted of a Squadron Leader C.O., a Flight Lieutenant Accountant Officer, a Flight Lt. Equipment Officer and their staffs. I had a hairy old Sergeant Equipment Assistant who I believe was a regular airman and probably looked upon me as not a real Equipment Officer. However, his knowledge and experience were invaluable.
I enquired as to the whereabouts of my predecessor to be told that he had already gone having been posted abroad. There was, therefore, no handover of inventories. The next surprise was even greater, I was told that I also had RAF Kimbolton to finish closing down. I took myself to Kimbolton to find a ‘care and maintenance party’ of three airmen and one Waaf. Two were out on the airfield shooting rabbits and the other two were dealing with some paperwork. The entire camp had been almost cleared, barrack equipment to a storage/disposal site, fuel to other sites and/or the homes of the local population. Legend had it that a grand piano from the Sergeants Mess had gone astray. One day a Provost Squadron Leader came into my office and said: “Bailey, I want you to come with me to St. Neots Police Station to identify some rolls of linoleum which they have recovered from a farmer”. We went to St. Neots and a police sergeant showed us several rolls of obvious Air Ministry linoleum standing in a cell. I examined the rolls and could find no AM marks so I told the Provost that I could say the rolls ere exactly similar to AM Lino but I could not positively identify them as AM property. The provost told the police sergeant to give the lino back to the farmer. Heaven only knows how many houses had their floors covered in Air Ministry lino in the Kimbolton area. No doubt this sort of thing was happening all over the country. The politicians were so anxious to get servicemen back into civvies street that establishments were seriously undermanned.
When I, a mere Flying Officer, did the final paperwork for RAF Kimbolton I raised a
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write off document well in excess of £1 million at 1947 prices and this only involved equipment known to be missing.
With regard to Brampton itself, the winter of 46/47 was extremely severe with heavy snowfalls. Even the rail line between Huntingdon and Kettering was blocked. When the snow thawed there was severe flooding. One weekend I went home and returned to Camp on Sunday afternoon to find that the previous night there had been a severe storm with gale force winds and Brampton was a scene of devastation. Trees had been blown down crushing nissen huts. The camp was flooded and the sewage system was completely useless. The following morning I located a stock of portable loos (Thunder boxes so called). A four wheel drive vehicle was despatched through the flood waters surrounding Huntingdon, to RAF Upwood to collect these things. Things gradually returned to something like normal but it was a terrible time. The Officers Mess at Brampton was in the large house in Brampton Park and the Headquarters Staff from the C in C Technical Training Command down, were housed in Offices adjacent to Brampton Grange. There were far more senior officers at Brampton than junior officers because of the very nature of the place.
The PMC of the mess was a Group Captain and one day he came to me and said “Bailey, we are going to have a Dining In and I thought it would be nice if we could have some proper RAF crested crockery and cutlery”. I informed the PMC that these items were not on issue whereupon he suggested that I use my initiative.
It just so happened that whilst I was a[sic] Cosford I learned that in the Barrack Stores the very things I was being asked to get were in store, having been there throughout the War. I spoke with the Wing Commander, my former boss, who
agreed to release a quantity of crockery, etc. I informed the PMC of my success and he arranged for a De Havilland Rapide aircraft from our communications flight at nearby Wyton to take
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me to Cosford to collect the two heavy chests of crocks. I am sure the Rapide was overloaded on the flight back to Wyton but the mission was accomplished and the PMC was able to show off his ‘posh’ tableware at the next Dining In.
I was shortly to have to make a major decision, the date was fast approaching for my release back into civilian life, I had agreed to serve six months beyond my release date and had made an application for an extended service commission which would have kept me in the Royal Air Force for at least another six years. However my civilian employers became aware that I had done the extra six months and were not amused. I, despite having access to ‘P’ staff at Brampton could not get a decision from Air Ministry and I made the decision to leave the service.
On 1st. April, how significant a date, I headed off to Kirkham in Lancashire to collect my demob suit. A very sad day.
This is the end of the ‘dream’ but not quite the end of my love affair with the Royal Air Force. But that, as they say, is another story ……
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Two photographs in RAF uniform; one in 1942 aged 18 and the other in 1945 aged 21.
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Dublin Core
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Title
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Was it all a Dream
The memoirs of Wartime Bomb Aimer Bill Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Bailey's wartime memoirs, from enlistment, training in UK and Canada and detail of each of 31 operation in Bomber Command. After completion of his tour he was transferred to Lossiemouth to train Free French aircrew. After successful progress he was offered a commission. Later he trained for Tiger Force ops at RAF Wigsley and Swinderby. When the Force was cancelled he became an Equipment Officer at Bicester then Cosford, Brampton and Kimbolton.
Creator
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Bill Bailey
Format
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45 typewritten sheets and two b/w photographs
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Photograph
Identifier
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BBaileyJDBaileyJDv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Free French Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
Germany
Great Britain
Norway
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
England--Birmingham
England--Devon
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--London
England--Yorkshire
France--Domléger-Longvillers
France--Ardennes
France--Calais
France--Cap Gris Nez
France--Le Havre
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Leipzig
Manitoba--Carberry
Netherlands--Domburg
Netherlands--Eindhoven
New Brunswick--Moncton
Norway--Oslo
Nova Scotia--Halifax
Ontario--Hamilton
Ontario--Picton
Poland--Szczecin
Netherlands--Hague
France
Ontario
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Netherlands
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Warwickshire
Manitoba
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IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
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Sue Smith
David Bloomfield
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1 Group
103 Squadron
166 Squadron
1660 HCU
1667 HCU
4 Group
5 Group
576 Squadron
8 Group
83 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
B-17
Bolingbroke
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
briefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
flight engineer
Gee
ground personnel
H2S
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Halifax Mk 5
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lincoln
Lysander
Master Bomber
medical officer
memorial
mid-air collision
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
Mosquito
Oboe
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
perception of bombing war
prisoner of war
promotion
RAF Acaster Malbis
RAF Bicester
RAF Binbrook
RAF Blyton
RAF Brampton
RAF Cosford
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Hawarden
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kimbolton
RAF Kirmington
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Paignton
RAF Penrhos
RAF Peplow
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF St Athan
RAF Swinderby
RAF Worksop
RAF Wyton
superstition
Tiger force
training
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/650/8920/ATrentKL160112.1.mp3
ad84d3cea1d3ea2508452abb41103142
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Trent, Kenneth
K L Trent
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Trent, KL
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Kenneth Lionel Trent DFC (1922 - 2018, 176283 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He flew operations as a pilot with 576, 625, 617 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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KT: Put your hand up when you –
CB: Yeah.
KT: Are fed up with what I’m saying.
CB: Right.
KT: Or if I’m saying too much of one particular subject. Is it running?
CB: So, my name is Chris Brockbank and we’re in St Helier and we’re just going to talk with Ken Trent about his experiences in the war as a bomber pilot and he did two tours. So if you’d like to start from your earliest recollections please Ken.
KT: Well my first [pause] I started — the first thing I can remember I should say is sitting in the back of a London taxi. I would be how old? Four? Three? Something like that. With my sister and my father. It was in the spring. It was a beautiful day and the pram hood was open on the taxi and we were — it was — but it wasn’t a happy journey. We were going to the [Will Abingdon?] Wing of the Middlesex Hospital to see my mum who was seriously ill. But God looked down on her and she got better and lived another nineteen years which was — but she still died at a very young age of fifty eight. Still, we survived this and then we come to the school. The first school I went to with my sister was St Peter’s, funnily enough. I go to a St Peter’s Church now. And it was across Goodmayes Park. We lived in Becontree and it was across Goodmayes Park and it was a little church school. My mum showed us the way there two or three times and of course in these days you could. Children were quite safe walking around and they used to play in the streets and all this sort of stuff whereas today you know it’s not quite so safe. Well, after we learned the way we used to, we walked to school and we did this for a few days and then we thought it would be a good idea — it was better to play in the park. We had to go cross Goodmayes Park and so we stayed in the park. The biggest problem was to find out the time so that, because we didn’t have clocks but we didn’t want to turn up at home at the wrong time. So as young as we were we weren’t completely stupid. But nevertheless it was only maybe ten or fifteen pupils that went out. Two didn’t turn up. They telephoned and my mum said, ‘Well, they were —’ and of course, so she goes in the park, she finds us and we were in a lot of trouble. She wouldn’t hit us or anything like that but we were in serious trouble. We never did it again. Well we got a little bit older. My mum and dad had a shop in 131 Becontree Avenue and they sold everything and it had a sub post office there. And you know [pause] I’m drying up for the moment.
CB: We can stop for a mo.
KT: Yeah. Just for a second.
[Recording paused]
KT: Ok. I’ve got it. We had a — my dad was a sub post master there. Now, the area was where they had cleared out the slums from East London. And basically I’m an East Londoner and I’m very happy about it. Very proud to be one. And a good Cockney as they say. Anyway, my dad sent me as we grew up and I became old enough he sent me to the local council school and after about a month or a couple of months I came home and the language was not too charming. I don’t think it was swearing but the accent, you know. It was pretty broad. Getting very broad and he didn’t fancy this. So he got me organised in a school in Loughton as a boarder. And the word Loughton School for boys. There weren’t many boarders there. The school would be something like two hundred pupils. There was, there were four boarders and we ate all our meals with the headmaster on the big table and he really eyed over our behaviour and table manners and etcetera etcetera. So at least I learned how to eat in company. Then he had a daughter. Cynthia. I can remember when we were having sausages for breakfast one morning and she said, ‘Daddy do they shoot sausages?’ and you know, it’s kind of funny we thought at the time. Anyway, Cynthia and I were good mates and of course we got caught in the rhododendrons. We thought we weren’t being seen. Finding out the differences between ourselves which I suppose is quite normal of kids at that age. All very innocent. Then following that I mean I was at the school for quite a few years but at one stage and it was at the end when I was ready to go. To to be moved on to another school that I had, we were playing I’m the king of castle, get down you dirty rascal and they pushed me off and I, my feet got caught. I fell down. A kid was running by and he kicked me on the head quite accidentally and so I’m laid out. And it developed into a haemorrhage. An internal haemorrhage in my head. And it showed itself. It was right at the end of term and it showed itself during the holidays. Anyway, they got over all that and or I did but I was in bed for about seven, eight weeks and I wasn’t allowed to get up and I had to keep as still as possible but it all got better. We then, the next thing that happened they entered me into Framlingham College in Suffolk. I think you could call it The Albert Memorial College and it’s in Framlingham and there’s a massive statue of Prince Albert there. But it was normally known as Framlingham College. Well, I went there and I was just on the edge from — I was just a little bit right at the end of junior school so they put me straightaway, this is in the Christmas term and they put me straightaway into the senior school. Now, to be — I completely and utterly wasted my parent’s money. I didn’t work. Apart from maths and arithmetic I, because mainly the headmaster used to take some of the lessons and I got on extremely well with him. Mr Whitworth was his name. And he sailed. And by this time I was very interested in sailing. I’ve been going on about the school but I haven’t talked about the holidays. And I’ll go on with them in a minute. So we go back to holidays. My parents had a little, you would call it a wooden shack on the beach at St Osyth which is known as Toosie St Osyth. There’s a priory there. Well if you go straight down onto the beach onto the, towards the sea, it was on the sea wall. It had about four rooms. It was a wooden shack and it was kind of built on stilts because the front of it was on the ground and the back of it was on stilts because the sea wall was underneath. It was wonderful for us children and there was my sister who was a couple of years older than me, myself and my cousin, Jean. And we, in Easter and summer we were there [noise on microphone] Ok? Yeah. We were there more or less all the time. And our parents would come down and to see us. Now, you imagine three kids and we were all very responsible as it turned out but you wouldn’t think we would be. But we had a ball. We learned how to be self sufficient. We did our own cooking at this very young age. We had a few shillings. We could go. I mean a few pounds I expect but I can’t remember, but there was a fish and chips, or a chippie as they say today, in a hut as you, as you drive over into the area. As you arrive. And we’d go there for fish and chips sometimes. But we, and my parents would come down. Only one of them because the other one would have to be in the shop. Fine. Now, we’ll go back to school. The school, when you get to Framlingham the majority of the pupils came from very wealthy families and some of them [pause] Barry Grant was a pal. He turned out to be a pal of mine. And right at the start he was a wonderful, wonderful musician who had, until he’d got to Framlingham had never had a lesson. But he was in demand. They lived in the Leigh area. You know in Southend and Leigh on the east coast. And he was in the area. He was in. He was required by the cinemas to play the organ in between the films. I think they were Compton organs that used to rise up out of the ground. So when I say he was a wonderful musician this was untrained natural ability. Of course he had his lessons also. You know, music lessons at Fram. So, you would, to give an example you would have a boy, a senior boy who’s got his driving licence or maybe with an L plate would drive to school at the beginning of term in a posh car. Little car. And then they’d take the trunk off the back, in. And the chauffeur would drive it back home. Well, I mean, you know I come out from the East End. My dad’s running an East End little shop and this was another world. Something I’d never ever come across and couldn’t believe but I wanted it. But I still didn’t work at school. I was in all sorts of trouble. Now, the boys. The majority of them, the parents, they were able to ring up the local town Framlingham, the grocer’s shop and get whatever they wanted delivered and they could put it in their tuck box. But we couldn’t do anything like this. We got a shilling a week. And you know their tuck boxes were full. Ours were empty after about a week. Anyway, I had to do something about this and I discussed it with Barry. And we decided that we would go in to the booze and fags business. And we [pause] first of all you’ve got to get out of the school. Well now the school locks up and when its locked they have to have provision for fire. And so by all exit doors there was a little box with a glass front and a key hanging in it and you smashed the glass front and opened the door. So I pinched the key before the end of term. I unscrewed the front of the box. Didn’t break the glass. Put any old key in there. Pinched their key. We put it all back as it was. And then when I’m home our next door, the shop next door was, I used to call him Uncle Dick. Dick Linnington. And Dick was, had been shipwright. Had been a sailor. Had been at sea all his life and I suppose he packed up around about fifty. And he’d started this shop. And amongst other things he cut keys. And it was all done with files. No machines. So he cut me a key. And when I got back I put the proper key back and my key fitted alright. And then we had a large bag that we could cart between us and so off we went to Framlingham Castle. And you’d walk around the back of the school. We came out at the back, go between the tuck shop and the chapel and then you went over a stile into a field and you could walk straight across a couple of fields and you were near Framlingham Castle. And right tucked under, just by the castle was a boozer. A pub. And we went in there and we bought as much as we could afford because I didn’t have much money. As much beer as we could, in bottles. It was just draught beer. The cheapest. In any, in any bottles that they had and they had screw tops so, you know, you could reuse them. And it might have stout. It might have light ale. Brown ale. Bitter. Or whatever. But it was all the same beer regardless. And we had a few packets of fags and we took them back and we found, gradually, carefully found a few customers. And they had to be warned to be very very careful of the cigarette butts. But the bottles — we wanted them back. Well, we actually, we were doing very well with this. We were getting something like between four and five shillings a week each. And in those days I mean our shilling a week, no we would get something like about five shillings a week between us. About two and six. Half a crown each. Which, when you consider that our weekly money, you know, pocket money was a shilling. We multiplied it. Anyway, we were doing alright. Well when we dragged this lot back and go down the corridor into the chapel and Barry of course. I was in the choir and when I was sitting in the choir I could see him pumping the organ and I had seen him take a sip out of the communion wine before now. Anyway, we stored the stuff in the organ and I mean at times Barry played the organ and then I was pumping it. We had quite a nice little business but nobody ever found out and we escaped. Now, I expect you know I’m writing a book and I wonder, I just wonder what they’re going to think when they, when they read this. Anyway, apart from that I was lazy. I was quite good at tennis, table tennis and squash. I mean there were everything was available there. From swimming, you know. There was rugby in the winter. In the Christmas term. Hockey. And cricket of course in the next two terms. And then there was riding. Tennis. All sorts of stuff on the side. Ok. Well we get to the end. The day before I left school I got the stick from prefects for smoking. I mean me. Getting caught smoking and I’d been so careful. Nobody had been rumbled with cigarettes. Well they may have been rumbled but they never — they didn’t leave butts around. We’d got them all, the smokers, pretty well trained who were our customers. But then I got caught. Stick off prefects is not a very pleasant thing. You, it’s at 9.30. After prayers. And you were in your pyjamas and you go down to the set room and it was four strokes. I think it says six in the book but that’s a bit of an exaggeration. It was four strokes and they, the prefects, there were two of them. One of them who I can remember distinctly. His name was Bellamy and he was in the first eleven as a fast bowler. Well, they would have a run up of about seven or eight, ten paces and run in and lay it on as hard as ever they could. And by the time you’d got four strokes — the biggest thing you mustn’t make a noise. I mean you’ve got to show, ‘Sod them. They’re not going to get me.’ And you’ve got to shut your mouth and keep it shut and just let them do it. As the thing that you just let them do it. Let’s do it. Just get there and just accept it. And of course when you’ve finished if you’re lucky you’ve just got massive bruising with welts on your bum. And if you’re unlucky you might have a little drop of blood. But you know I know this sounds in this day and age absolutely terrible but it did me no harm at all. And I realised that you know the rules. You break the rules you go for what you’ve got to get. But the people it may have damaged are the people that were dishing it out because they looked after their canes and they got anti-shock absorbers and stuff you know which I don’t think was very good training but nevertheless it happened. And that was the system as it was ninety, eighty years ago. Right. I left. And I left [pause] and for the winter term 1939 war was declared. I got myself a job. No. That’s really not true. I was lucky enough to get a job because my dad knew the chairman of John Knights. The soap company. And the job was really — I was obviously going in the services so it was a kind of semi, it was, it was a fill in and I must have been there for quite some time but all of a sudden all the men disappeared and the ladies, girls and ladies and women were taking over the running. It was a fantastic effort that they put in and they made a wonderful job. It wasn’t long before — and the other thing the company moved from Silvertown to Loughton. Strangely enough Loughton where I’d been at school. In a very large house with a lot of outbuildings and the office was all run from there and they’d fixed it all up. And I worked very very hard. I would stay the night in the big building all night. I camped in the big building and I had to keep — you know, things were different. There was a war on and everybody had to try and do their bit and I suddenly found although I didn’t do any work at school at all. Terribly lazy. I suddenly found there was an object in this and I could work until the job was done. And I did. And I worked. I worked all the hours and sometimes up to 10 o’clock at night and then I would camp down in this big house and there were — I mean I wasn’t the only one. There would be one or two others camping there as well. This was the spirit of England at that time. Anyway, it wasn’t very long before I found myself running the London forward section. The forward meaning arranging the invoicing and statements. No. I don’t think statements. Invoicing and organising deliveries to people in the London, to shops in the London area. Well at the time I was still there when the Channel Islands were taken over and although it didn’t affect me there was a big panic going on because of the money that was owing and orders to the various places. Nevertheless, I was also a member of the — what did they call it? Cadets. RAF cadets. Locally in Ilford. And we used to go there and you know I would be about eighteen and I thought I ought to join up and I would have only just been eighteen because it was December. And my eighteenth birthday would be in November. And so I applied to join the RAF. What as? I said pilot. And I really regretted not working at home, you know. At school I should say. I really regretted that because if I had I would have had no problems and I was thinking I’d never pass any of the exams. I’ll never pass the exams. Nevertheless, in just a few weeks I’m called to Uxbridge and I go down there and the exams were not that hard. And I did the exams. That was fine. Then we had to have an interview and I thought — well if they see my school record what chance have I got? It’s going to be absolutely dreadful. And you know this is something. Anyway, I’m worried. I wanted to be a pilot so much. I, eventually there was about seven or eight of us outside a room and you know, somebody had gone in and then he had come out and he said, ‘Trent. You’re next.’ So, I went in. Stood to attention and there was a bloke. Immaculately dressed. About ten years older than me. A bit older than me and he started off, ‘Where did you go to school?’ I said ‘Loughton School for Boys.’ And then I moved on as I got older. Oh I called it a prep school. It wasn’t a prep school but it sounded better, Loughton School, Prep School for Boys. Anyway, then — and the the next school? I said, ‘Framlingham College.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Which house?’ I said Garrett. ‘Oh’, he said, ‘I was in Garrett House as well.’ I got no problem. I’m in. and he said, you know, and all we talked about was school and Rupe and Pop and Colonel and all the other masters and stuff and those were their nicknames. Anyway, so I’m in. I go home and just a short time after that — maybe a month six weeks, I get a [pause] I, yes I think I went, no — I went to Uxbridge. And then from Uxbridge, there was a bunch of us, we were given railway warrants to Torquay. Number 9 RW. Receiving Wing. And we arrived down there and they kitted us out with all the stuff and were starting to march us up and down. Showing us how to make your bed for the daytime so that all the sheets are folded in a certain way and the blankets and all the, well for want of a better word the bull shit that they have in the services. And there they also I mean they started the marching and this, that and the other and also polishing your bloody boots. All the equipment that was issued including a thing called a hussif and the hussif was your needle and stuff like this for repairing your clothes and the word derives from housewife. Anyway, we also had loads of injections which made us feel a bit rough. But after, it was only about a week, seven or eight days we were posted to [pause] I can’t remember the number and I’ve got it in the book but it was an IT, Initial Training Wing at Stratford On Avon which is a beautiful lovely town. And we were in the Shakespeare Hotel right on the top of, you know, the top hotel in there. The only trouble is they’d taken out all the goodies but it was still a lovely place to be. We started the lectures. You know, there’s maths and navigation, theory of flight, instruments, map reading. You know, general things you would think you would need. And I worked hard. And, you know, just as an aside we used to church parade on a Sunday and I’m not sure if we got — I think we got a half a crown a day. That’s the seventeen and six a week and because I wanted to survive the war I thought it might be a good idea to give God a good donation every Sunday. So he got five bob of my seventeen and six every week. And I don’t know. Silly. But I did it, you know. That’s how you feel, and I’ve always attended church when possible and still do. Anyway, so, mind you with the behaviour things you wonder [laughs] you know. But there’s got to be some bad Christians as well as good ones. Anyway, so I went on from there. We had the exam. And all of sudden there was a massive panic. And before you could say, ‘Pack your bags. Pack your bags.’ Go to West Kirby. Or is it East Kirby? It’s by Liverpool. And we are — West Kirby isn’t it? Yes. And we are put aboard the Leopoldville which was a dirty old Polish tramp steamer. And we’re off. We’re off. We don’t know where we’re going. The boat’s going. But we wind up in Iceland. Now, on the way there was one big room with camps [pause] with what do you call them?
CB: Hammocks. Hammocks.
KT: Hammocks. That’s right. I couldn’t get the word. With hammocks. And underneath there were tables and underneath there’s the deck or the floor. And there were — guys were spread in the hammocks, on the tables, under the tables on the floor. And do you know I think being a bit on the selfish side I found a little corner for myself in a corridor and I slept. It was only a few days. Three, four or five days. And I slept — and in the corridor. Well one morning the old, you know, weather had gone a bit sour. The sea was getting up and the old tub was rolling all over the place and in the morning when I went into the big room there was about, I don’t know how much, a foot of water, a couple of feet of water and as the boat was rolling it was sloshing from one side to the other. Because they hadn’t secured the portholes properly and so every now and again until they got them secured they had like full steam hose. You know. And of course there was now a big dry out required and one thing or another. But I was happy in my little corner and I was very lucky. I must tell you the toilets. They were so absolutely abysmal. It was a plank. A big plank with several holes cut in it and it was on the port quarter. Secured. With hand holds. That’s where you performed in front of each other. But it was quite efficient because they just used to hose the deck off and it all used to go over the side so that, because the boat didn’t have sufficient toilet arrangements for the people, the number aboard. Anyway, we got to Iceland. We get unloaded and we go inland to a place called Helgafell. We were, we were sleeping in half built Nissen huts. We’d all got camp beds. Not camp beds. What do you call them? Sleeping bags and all this stuff and our kit bags and this and we slept in these Nissen huts. You know, one end, the end we were in, one end was open but there was lots of us and we were all started on the floor. And then when you woke up in the morning you weren’t cold and you’d all squash together in one big lump of human flesh and everybody was warm and it was ok. It wasn’t as bad as it sounds. We ate there. Well one of the things in Iceland they’ve got hot springs and of course we’d got to have a go at that. It mean it was not warm and it wasn’t the middle of winter. It would be spring. It would be but it was a bit of snow around but not — it wasn’t too bad. So we were in there. All of us. Oh about twenty. Twenty, thirty of us. All out of our hut swimming. Hot. Beautiful. Smashing. And then all of a sudden a whole load of young girls turned up and they all get in. They’re all swimming. And they’re in the nude as well. So we couldn’t get out of the water and it was tricky. Anyway, we get back into town and we are put aboard a large liner and I don’t know the name of it. It was not the QE, the Queen Elizabeth. We went to Halifax. We’re stuck on a train for five days going to Swift Current which was where our EFTS — Elementary Flying Training. The journey was long. The trains are enormous. They are over a mile long. The whole lot makes England’s train system look as if its Hornby. Anyway, when we got to Winnipeg [pause] no. It was Trenton. I beg your pardon. It definitely wasn’t Winnipeg. It was Trenton. They had laid on, the powers that be had laid on a dance and they’d got a load of local girls with finger, finger stuff to eat and this, that and the other. And it was all very kind and lovely but then the Canadians are lovely because basically my family are all Canadian bar my sister and myself. So, then we eventually get to Swift Current and then we start with the lessons and then you know, you work hard and the actual work, the whole thing was easy. We had an interesting character on our course called Jimmy Edwards who I expect most of you have heard of and know. He did, at the beginning of the lectures before the lecturer had turned up he would stand in the front with his cane and doing exactly the same thing as he did after the war on television and in the theatre for millions of pounds. Anyway, that was Jimmy. The interesting bit is the first time you fly. And you go around. I can’t remember the name of my instructor. He was not liked. The other two pupils. There were three. He had three pupils. The other two asked to be exchanged, to change. To change. I really got on with him. He was, for me, just the right guy and he takes you around. There’s a Pitot head and you check your Pitot tube. You have to make sure the Pito tube doesn’t have a sock over it to look after it. And you check the ailerons, rudder, elevators and general look around and you look in the cockpit. This is the first time I’d ever seen. You know, you can imagine the excitement. Got the flying gear on. All the business. And you look and he was explaining the bits and pieces. And needle, ball and air speed is the basic thing for a Tiger. Anyway, we get in and he takes the thing off. And he instructed me to hold the stick with — between my fingers and not with a grip. And I suppose this is in case you freeze on it. Anyway, at take off and he showed me how to fly straight and level. You know, you’ve got to get the needle and the ball and you’ve got to maintain the same airspeed. And you know, it was not difficult and it wasn’t very long. Maybe ten minutes, quarter of an hour before I got the hang of just flying straight and level. I hadn’t done any turns or anything like that. And he said, ‘Now ease the stick forward. Ease the stick forward. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.’ And he said, ‘Now you’re doing about a hundred and twenty. Now ease it back. Back. Back. Come on. Back. Back.’ Bingo. We did a loop. And I did it. So the first time I ever got in an aeroplane I did a loop. And that to me is something. Anyway, then he shows you how to, you know rate one turns and turning. To give you the whole description would take a long time. So we go on, come in and land and he shows me how to land and you know he does this three or four times and then he lets me have a go with the, with the stick and he’s kind of guiding me. But anyway, this is kind of normal. The way we trained. And this went on for a while. Over a few days, maybe a couple of weeks and I can’t remember the hours. I’ve got them written down. I can’t remember, I think they were just short of four hours. Three forty, three fifty hours I had done at the time and I’d just done a landing and I’d taxied to turn into wind again to take off and in my book I said, “God got out.” And he said, you know, he just got out. ‘See what you can do.’ And I took off. No problem. And I’m in the air going up and I’m screaming at the top of my voice, ‘Mummy, if you could see me now.’ And I came around and did the thing. Came in and did, as far as I remember a pretty good landing. I don’t know. Anyway, I got it on the ground so it must have been good. But I couldn’t leave it. I opened the taps again and did another circuit. And i thought, ‘God, I’m going to be in trouble for that.’ I came in and landed and I would have loved to have done another one but I turned and taxied up to him thinking I’m going to be in trouble. And he was so pleased. But I got on with him all the time. They moved from Swift Current. They moved the whole — oh I must tell you. While I was there we bought a car. Four of us. Two dollars fifty each. It was a Model T Ford. It was another thing to start a Model T Ford in cold. Thirty below, forty below because this is by the — now we’ve gone through the summer. We’re in the winter. Zero. I’ve got to tell you quickly. You jack up the back wheel. Of course there’s no water. That’s all out. You stick the handle in the front. You don’t switch on because there’s a magneto and you just wind the handle and it’ll start. I wonder if I’ve got this right. I think it is. Anyway, it starts and you leave it warming for a while. Now you want some hot water. Some hot water with you. And after you’ve got it running and it has warmed up a bit you stop it, pour the water in, restart and it should start no problem. No. Sorry. You don’t stop it. You just pour the water in the radiator but if it stops you’ve got to get the water out of the radiator straightaway because it’ll be frozen in no time. Anyway, and the tap will work because the tap will be hot. Anyway, as soon as you’ve got that and you get it running for a while then you have to stop it and put the fan belt on because the fan belt drives the water pump. But before you do that you’ve got to pour water on the water pump to thaw it out. And then you put the fan belt on. Start it. And now you want somebody to push you off the jack. And then you’re away. It’s quite a car to drive actually because the handbrake is part of the gearing mechanism. So if you’ve got the hand break is on now you take it half way off and you’ve got a pedal that you press and when you push that the car goes forward. And then you put the handbrake off and then take your foot off the pedal, off the pedal and you are in top gear. So if you are on the ground and — if you’re stationery I should say and you start it and then you take the handbrake all the way off it promptly stalls because you’re putting it in top gear. Anyway, there we are. That’s enough of that one. We moved to Innisfail. The whole outfit. And we weren’t allowed to drive the car. It was about four hundred miles. We flew the aircraft and we got two ground crew and we got them permission and they drove it the four hundred miles and they had a wonderful holiday apparently because by — anyway then we flew and there was, it was very easy. You know, it’s easy flying in Canada because everything is marked in squares and all the roads go north or south. North south or east west. And you can’t go wrong. All you’ve got to know is the latitude and it is so easy. Anyway, we get there and we had a Chinook wind. Now a Chinook — it’s a very hot. It’s very hot and it was over night and the whole place is white and covered in snow and the snow would have been on the ground unless there had been a previous Chinook wind. It would have been on the ground since about September-time as it fell and it would stay there if there was no Chinook wind right the way through until the spring. But we had, they do get, in Alberta they do get a few Chinook winds and the — when you wake up in the morning most of the snow has gone. All the snow on the ground but the stuff in the hilly or where there were big drifts, yes there would be snow there but basically it had gone. But the thing it did it thawed out the top of the lakes and so all of a sudden you’ve got water on top of lakes and then a couple of nights later it’s all frozen again and you’ve got ideal skating conditions. Anyway, we met a couple of, they were, you know the Canadians were very good and very nice to us and in the [pause] they were asking us to their homes for a meal and stuff and my pal Bob Sergeant and I got invited to a Mrs McGee for a meal. And when we got there she was, she was a widow. Her husband had died and she had two beautiful daughters. Just right. And they were around about, you know, our age or maybe just a little bit less but more or less our age. And of course it wasn’t very long before the rest of our stay in Innisfail. This is, I don’t know if I told you we went from Innisfail from Saskatoon er Swift Current. To Alberta. To Innisfail which is not far from Calgary. Anyway, so we had a great time with the girls and finishing the course, took the exams and then I was posted, along with the rest of the course to North Battleford in Saskatchewan. And then big disappointment — onto Airspeed Oxfords. So that meant I wasn’t going to be one of these lovely boys with the Battle of Britain guys who used to be at High Beach with all the best birds and a little car and stuff like this with their wings. And these were the Battle of Britain guys. And this was the thing that, I used to go to High Beach with my bicycle and this was really part of the reasons why I joined the air force. To see them. Well, so I’m going to be a bomber pilot. And we did the course. There was no problem with the course. One of the strange things, well, one of the things that happened — we were on a — of course there was a big thing about navigation and etcetera. So, navigation. I was up as the navigator and there was another pupil as a pilot and we had a route to take and I got utterly and completely lost. But there’s a bonus also in Canada because they have grain elevators and I came, we came down or he came down and we read the name of the grain elevator and it was Humboldt in Saskatchewan. I had an auntie who lives in Humboldt and actually she’s been to Jersey where I live now. This was years ago. Forty odd ago. And she’s been here with us when our children were very small. And she lived to a hundred and ten. And she died when she was a hundred and ten. Auntie Dorothy. Well, it was, it was her home town but having found that out and I found my way back to where we should have been but I made a complete imagination of the course I should have done. Filled in wind drifts and everything else and it was just a load of [pause] it wasn’t rubbish because it was as my guess for what would have, you know what it would have been like if we’d done the right thing and I put it in and with my fingers crossed it was going to be all right. And I got a passed. I can’t believe it but I did. Anyway, we eventually, we get to the wings exam and there were a hundred and forty of us. A hundred and forty passed it. I don’t know how many, how many failed. But Jimmy Edwards was twenty second and I was fifteenth. So I had worked hard. The first forty got commissions. But I, don’t forget I was out of the east end of London really and I was not considered to be officer material. Well I think really they’re right. Anyway, I didn’t, I didn’t get a commission. I was made a sergeant pilot and then the worst deal of all of course I’d sewn my wings on. That was about two minutes after. As soon as I got in. The first thing. We were all doing it. Anyway, I was posted to [pause] I can’t remember the number. It was a bombing and gunnery school at Mont-Joli on the banks of the St Lawrence in province Quebec. It was on the south bank facing north and it was literally just a few hundred yards away from the airfield. And we were flying Fairey Battles. And some of them had a gun at the back and they had UT pilots. Not pilots. Gunners under training. And then there would be two or three others that used to tow drogues. And the guys used to fire into the drogues. And so we were doing fifteen, twenty minute flights up and down up and down with different gunners all the time. I mean it might have been twenty five minutes — the flights. I can’t remember. But then you’ve got to taxi in, turn around, taxi out and take off and do another lot. And it was horrible. I [pause] I wanted, I joined the air force to get in the war and this wasn’t the war. And I just, I got back in to my very rebellious ways again and didn’t do everything right by a long way and of course the flying. It was so boring. I was really sticking my neck out. The first — what the hell was the first thing. There were three major things. One of them. Oh I know. The first one I was, I mean this was not like the western Canada. This is all hills and its beautiful beautiful countryside with hills, valleys and vales and its picturesque and a beautiful area. And absolutely great for fun with an aeroplane because the first thing that I did and never got known — it never became known but it nearly killed me. I’m flying up a valley as low as I can go and all of a sudden I’ve got a complete wall in front of me. The valleys ended and I don’t know what you call it. There would be a name for it. And I haven’t got enough room to turn around. And as soon as I saw it I got as much, I got a bit more height. As much as I could. I went as close to the port side as I possibly could. Stood the thing right on side and yanked the, you know got the stick right back and the bank at the end — must have missed that by about maybe a hundred feet. Maybe twenty. I don’t know but it was close. And then the bank the other side. But you live and I learn. But that’s if you live. And I learned. And the next thing I’m flying over — this is a period of quite a few months, I’m flying over a lake, and I’m going. Its ice and its winter and it’s and all of a sudden boom boom boom boom boom and it’s not much faster than that. I thought a propeller touching the ice would be brrrrrr but it’s not. It’s bang bang bang bang bang. Anyway, I eased the stick back and she came off. Now if you pull the stick back you hit your tail wheel on the ice and that would be curtains. So I was lucky. I didn’t really know but I eased the stick back, came off and the whole lot is like a big shaking machine because the propeller’s all out of balance and it was absolutely dreadful. So I went up to three thousand. I got up to something like three thousand feet and flew back to base and I thought well now the engine can’t stand this for long. It’s going to pack up and I’ll stick it on the ground on it’s, without the wheels and they won’t see anything about the propeller. And I flew. But you know the Merlin engine is a bit better than that. And I wound around in the end and I’ve got no fuel left. Well I had fuel but it was just a little fuel. I was running out of fuel so I came in and landed and I landed with the brakes on or I put them on straight away with the stick as far forward as I could get it thinking she’d stand up on her nose. But it didn’t happen. Went down and then the tail flopped down. Of course I hadn’t got any brakes. I’d burned them out. Well I taxied in and on Mont-Joli there was a big ditch both sides of the taxi strip. And so you’ve got to go faster and faster and faster to maintain your direction because [pause] and in the end I just cut the engines and she went on and she did a big circle to the left and she came up. I’ve got — she came up right outside the CFI’s, Chief Flying instructor’s office. Right bang outside with a bent prop. And he was out of that office before you could say knife. And he swallowed the story. I said I’d run into a snowdrift and that was right. But the station commander was a different cup of tea. He was older. He had grown up children and he said, ‘Come on. I’ll take you. Show me the marks on the runway,’ and there weren’t any marks of course. So, he said, ‘Now I know what you were doing. Now, tell me. I’m not going to do anything about it.’ And he wanted me to admit that I’d lied and I wouldn’t. So I carried the lie on. Rightly or wrongly I did. I said. I didn’t tell him. I stuck to my story. Well I know it was a big mistake because it had repercussions later. Oh months. A couple of months. Later on there was. Anyway, I was up but for the first time ever I was pulling a drogue. Now, I’d never, I was, you know I’d always had the fighter guys. You know the gunner guys. Anyway, so we’d done the exercising and one thing and another. And then you come over the dropping area. You drop the zone and then the drogue and then you circle around, land. And that’s that. Well, I thought before I do that I’ll do a few steep turns and watch the drogue go past me in the opposite direction. I thought well that would be a bit different. And I did that. Now, when you come out of a steep turn you take, a steep turn is you’ve got the kite almost on its side. Not quite. With the stick well back and the stick which is the elevators — those are the things that are doing the turn. And you do the turn. You do the hundred the hundred eighty degree turn. When you come out you take the bank off and you ease the stick forward a fraction. Obviously because you’ve had it back take the bank off ease the stick forward and I went to pull it back and it didn’t come back. So I pushed it forward and pulled it back and it went forward and never came back. And I couldn’t get it back. I pulled it. Did everything and told the crew to get out. I unhitched myself, opened the top and I’m standing in the cockpit looking back and the bloke hasn’t moved. So I got back in the cockpit and I wound the elevator trim fully tail heavy and I was put under open arrest for this lot and they had an enquiry. And the enquiry said that we didn’t come out of it until we were four hundred feet. Now, that is very very low when you’re coming straight down. Anyway, as I wound the elevator full tail heavy and then all of a sudden the stick came back all the way and I then grabbed the elevator controls. A little crank handle on the left side. On your left side. And I started winding it forward as fast as I could and the next thing I knew I passed out of course in the, with the G and we were two thousand feet going up but if I hadn’t taken the bank, wound the elevator trim forward the kite would have gone straight over in to a loop and straight in the ground. Anyway, we got away with it. Came in and landed and the guy in the back although he dropped, they went and dropped the drogue of course. He dropped the drogue but he crashed his head when the kite pulled out and he got a big bruise but and he went sick. But he was alright. He just, he’d just got a big bruise on his head. He hadn’t broken his head. You know. Cracked his skull or anything like that. Fortunately. The next day I did the test flight. They looked and they couldn’t find anything wrong. So [pause] and they put me under open arrest and this would have been because of the previous time that they were taking a strong view. And I hated where I was. I wanted to be in England. I wanted to get onto operations so, and it didn’t look as if I’d got any chance of this happening. So I cleared off and went skiing. And I left actually, with a chap called Doug Wiltshire, I don’t know whether he’s still alive. I’ve lost contact. But he was my Bridge partner and I knew him very well. Well, I left the, I’d arranged with Doug certain times when I could ring him so that I could find out the news. Find out. And the first day I’m away and I’m ringing up. No. No problem. So, the next day I ring up he says, ‘You’d better come back home. They’ve been up.’ The aircraft I was in was the lead of two more. So, there was three of them formation flying. They were up on formation flying exercise and they did a steep turn and exactly the same thing happened. And the bloke in the, who was leading the formation went straight in the ground head first and killed him. Well when I got back I’d broken the — I mean I was under open arrest and it wasn’t just absent without leave it was a much more serious crime but they, they ignored it and they just had me up for being AWOL for two days. And I know that because I’ve got my records and it’s in there. And they gave me a reprimand. But they posted me. It’s quite normal I think when you’ve got in this particular case it was very difficult for the station commander because they hadn’t listened to me and so therefore it had cost two lives. And they don’t know how I’m going to react. What I’m going to do. And I mean I could have, I knew the guy that killed himself. I can’t remember his name. He was a New Zealander and his birthday was the 18th of November. The day before mine. Mine’s the 19th of November. And that’s — but I knew him very well and I could just as well I mean I wouldn’t have done it but they thought I could have, I may have written to his parents and told his parents. So they posted me straight away back to England. Eureka. I’m on the way to get into the, what I joined up for. I crossed the Atlantic on the Queen Elizabeth. No. Not the QE. The Queen Elizabeth 1. I think she finished her days in Hong Kong burning out. She caught fire and burned to pieces. Anyway, before I boarded the boat I bought three Crown and Anchor boards. And it was another, you know, another thing about me or character. There was some money around and I needed some of it and I was, I was more or less broke. I bought the three Crown and Anchor boards for ten dollars to start playing with which is not enough. So I got a board and I start a little game. You know, with a nice cockney accent which I can, which I had and still have basically and I did this – a little friendly game, you know , sort of business. The Americans, there must have been, there were thousands of them. I don’t know. One, two, three. I don’t know how many the boat would hold. There were not many English but there were loads and loads of Americans and they’d never seen Crown and Anchor. And it was a gambling game. They’d got to have a go at this. Well, I built the most important thing with it is that you’ve got to keep all the squares equally. With equal amounts of money on. If you get one with a great pile of money and it comes up and it comes up and it can come out two or three times I would have been broke. So, you, just a little friendly game you know. Oh no. Just. And so — but the money accumulates and it wasn’t very long before I got fifty, sixty dollars. And then of course the limit went up and up and up and then I got another board game. Another bloke — I said, ‘Do you want to earn a bit of money?’ you know. ‘Yeah.’ ‘I’ve got a board. You can set it up.’ And eventually I had the three boards going. I don’t know what happened on the crossing over on the Atlantic. I have no idea. All I did know was I wearing myself out walking around the ship picking up money. And when I got off the ship, I mean the guys that were running the things would have had as much or maybe more, I don’t know, than me but I got off the ship with just over three thousand pounds. Well now three thousand pounds in those days you could have bought a street of houses. But you know we were now in the throes of getting onto operations so the most important thing was to enjoy it. And I did but it took a little while. About a year or something but it was — but I did everything. Anyway, so we get back. We went to West Kirkby and from there I went to Shawbury and actually Prince Harry did some of his training or he was certainly stationed there for a while. I read it in the paper. I didn’t even know Shawbury was still going. And it, again it was Oxfords. And so you get back, you get in the Oxford and off you go up in the air and have a look around. Not a bit like Canada. Canada, in its way had its own kind of grandeur but it didn’t have — I mean, alright, the eastern area yes was very beautiful but when you’re flying over England it was beautiful but there wasn’t a straight road to be seen. I mean, Canada you could, it was so easy, but here you had to be a bit more, you know, it was different careful. And the same applied to the trains. They were just like little Hornby things. Anyway, everything was fine. They went up for a night flight and just familiarisation. I think it was the first time I’d been up and it was just to familiarise yourself with the local area and I flew down to the Wrekin and, you know, I had a look around. And, you know, there was no light. The whole place is, you know, blackout. Anyway, then I flew back and I ran into cloud and there was not supposed to be any cloud. It was supposed to be a clear night. And anyway, so I came down and I kept down to about I don’t know seven or eight hundred feet and I couldn’t see the ground so I went back to the Wrekin and the Wrekin hadn’t been shrouded in cloud. It was clear. And I did a very careful course and with the wind as far as I knew laid off and of course you, you have, you were given the wind speed and direction before you take off so you’ve got an idea of the wind. I laid a course on a timed run to get back to base. I ran it out and there’s nothing. So I came down again to about eight hundred feet and nothing. So I called up and there were thousands of people, hundreds. I don’t know. But the radio was jammed with people in the same situation. So I called up on [pause] I’ve forgotten it — six hundred, eight, anyway it’s the emergency frequency. I do know it but it’s slipped out of my mind.
CB: 121.5.
KT: Sorry?
CB: 121.5.
KT: No. No. It was different. Yeah. Anyway, I called up on the radio frequency on, you know, the emergency frequency. And they came back immediately, ‘Stand by,’ and I started, I flew squares. I can’t remember how many minutes. There might have been three minutes each leg and it seemed like a half an hour but I expect it was five minutes. Ten minutes at the most. And they came back and I asked for QDM to Shawbury and the QDM was 272. So I knew that I was east of the Welsh hills for sure. So I got on to 272 and I put full flap on. Tightened up the strap and dropped the speed down to just above stalling and I can’t remember what it would be. It might have been sixty. Sixty five. Something. But as slow as you could but I haven’t flown an Oxford for such a long I’m not sure. I think the stalling speed was about sixty five miles an hour and with full flap on you would get away with it at sixty. Anyway, so if you did hit anything there was a chance that you might be alright. And coming down like this and down and down and down and down and all of a sudden I see a light on the ground so I immediately put a bit more throttle on and go down towards the, then I see another one and I’m in a funnel. And a funnel is a lighted path before you get to an aerodrome and it leads you on to a runway. So, immediately I’d opened up, got the taps on so there’s no chance of stalling. I’ve got full flap on anyway. I drop the wheels and start coming in and there’s another bloody kite and he’s about — very close on the starboard side. But that’s no problem but you know he just appeared out of the fog and he flashed the same letter as me which was W. And you know didn’t ‘cause you know you were supposed to flash and get the green light that we weren’t messing about or anything like that. I wasn’t messing about or anything like that. So I flew alongside him and I came in and landed. The hut at the end of the runway fired off red flares to stop us landing because there were two kites coming in to land together. But of course I didn’t take any notice of that. Don’t forget by this time I’d got about fifteen hundred hours in and I’d been in the bombing gunnery school. That’s because I was first out. First up in the morning last, last off and I spent as many hours as I possibly could flying. Anyway, came in. I landed on the grass looking across the cockpit. The bloke did a perfectly good landing and then he obeyed the red flare, opened his taps up. A few seconds later he was dead. Or maybe a minute later. He took off. He — and the next thing before I had cleared the runway he killed himself. He’d gone into the ground. I don’t know whether he stalled or what he did. But then I can’t find my way in because I’m, I’m not on our aerodrome and I turned off left which is what I would do at home and I went in to no man’s land. And eventually I rang up and they sent a vehicle and I followed the vehicle in. And when I get there of all the people, I went into the mess and of all the people I bumped into was my Dougie Wiltshire my old bridge partner who I knew in Canada. Who I did the rigging to. Anyway, we’re there. Then we get posted to Lindholme and Lindholme is where we picked up on to Wellingtons and the Wellingtons was a different thing. But we’ve got to get a crew on. We were in an assembly room and all the different trades, you know, gunners and navigators, wireless ops, flight engineers, bomb aimers and etcetera and you just — I found a navigator. His name was Brinley and he’d got, what? He’d passed matric and stuff and I thought I couldn’t pass a bus let along matric. But he must be better than me but he should be able to navigate and we built the crew together somehow. It just happened. They just came together. We had a little tiny chap with the accent. You know — accent. You know. Clarence Derby. He was the rear gunner. Then there we had a mid-upper gunner who at the end of the training and when we were getting ready to go on operations suddenly decided it wasn’t for him and he went. In those days we’d call it LMF. He disappeared. I can’t, can’t remember his name or anything. We had brilliant navigator. Bill Johnson as a flight engineer. Noel Bosworth was bomb aimer. Who have I missed out? Oh Les Skelton, Australian. Still in touch with him. He’s the last one alive. He, he lives in Australia. Lived in Western Australia. I think that’s the whole crew. And then of course we start flying together. One of the interesting things. I pulled the flap. Now in an Oxford they had a flap lever but the propellers were locked so that they weren’t variable but they had a flap lever to try and get us used to [pause] not flaps. What am I talking about? What do they call it? Constant speed. The propeller going to coarse pitch and fine pitch. That’s what I’m talking about. I’m sorry. And when you were in you normally you take off in fine pitch. And to get it in fine pitch you pulled the lever up and the same thing. Well I got all mixed up and I landed up with the Lanc and pulled the bloody wheels up. And I knew immediately what I’d done and pushed the lever down again and they didn’t collapse. They didn’t. They stayed down. Two of them stayed down and the third one came up. It was the tail wheel. And so I got the crew out. I got underneath the tail wheel, lifted up the wheel came down and nobody knew. Luck. Anyway, fortunately I put the, realised and pulled the handle down quick. Anyway, we got, you become if you can fly, I know the kite was much bigger and there was a lot more to learn and you know from the operational point of view but one of the things I remember that stands in my mind was I’m in my mess having my dinner in the evening and I hear a bunch of kites taking off. And then I’m having my breakfast the next morning and they’re bloody well landing. And I’m thinking God they’ve been up there in the dark all night while I’ve been asleep. And I thought, God that’s terrifying. You know. But the training was extremely good and as you progressed through the course it was absolutely no problem. You know it was just, but, you know, the difference between no knowledge and a little knowledge and a lot of knowledge is a big difference. Anyway the thing worked fine. We spent hours and hours and hours on the bombing range trying to do the impossible. Getting a ten pound bomb somewhere near it. But you know if you do it enough times you get a bit better but you never become perfect. We got a lot better and I have dropped one or two real perfect bombs when I was on 617 Squadron later. But with these, S, I think they were called SABS. Semi-Automatic Bomb Site. They’d brought out another thing that had another word. It was like, I think it was an ABS. An Automatic Bomb Sight. That was later. That’ll come in in a minute. Anyway, so the net result we become pretty proficient and towards the end of the, of the course they sent us out on a diversionary thing. So, there was a bombing raid and they sent a whole bunch of us out to try and divert the enemy defence set up and then of course we all came back and landed and that was that. And then we were posted [pause] I cannot remember where. And in my book I don’t think I’ve got it. But it was on to a Halifax. It might be in the book but it’s slipped out of my mind at the moment. But we were posted on to Halifaxes and this four engines and this lasted no more than a week to two weeks at the most. And then we went to, in Lincolnshire, this and I’ve stayed there. The officer’s mess is now a hotel. And the name I know and it’s in the book. And I can give it to, I’ll have a look and I can find, look it up. I will think about because as it happens I managed to get the room I had while I was there.
CB: That’s Woodhall Spa.
KT: No. Woodhall Spa. I did that as well. In Woodhall Spa I got my old room when I went to a 617 reunion. But no, this was, anyway at the time the squadrons had been there or they eventually were there but it was a Conversion Unit onto a Lancaster. And then I’m posted on to Elsham Wolds. 576 Squadron Elsham Wolds and at the same time I’ve gone from sergeant, because I was a sergeant pilot. You became a flight sergeant automatically after six months. But eighteen months later I was still a sergeant because I’d had one or two — well because of the problems I had at Mont-Joli. Anyway, I went from sergeant, flight sergeant to pilot officer in five minutes. You know, when I say five minutes — in a matter of about three or four months. And I was given a bit of leave. I’m not sure if the whole crew was given some leave but I went down to London to All Kits I think it was called. Was it Cambridge Circus? All Kits. Got myself the gear and its surprising. The money was so cheap in those days. I think the allowance and I’m not sure, was forty pounds. And out of that you got a great coat, a uniform, and a couple of shirts I suppose. I can’t remember. Oh, the a hat. Your forage cap would be ok. Anyway, there we were. So I’m now Pilot Officer Trent with my kit bag and I’m off to Woodhall Spa. Not Woodhall Spa.
CB: Elsham Wolds.
KT: Elsham Wolds. Incidentally I’ve hunted at Elsham Wolds. You know. With horses of course. Anyway, that’s a by the way. So I get as close as I can on the bus. Barnetby le Wold. And they dropped me off and I’ve got about three miles walk but it shows how green I was. All I should have done was to have gone into a hotel, got a pint of beer and rung up and said I’m at such and such a hotel and they’d have picked me up. But I walked with my kit bag on my shoulder and I’m walking along a pace at a time. And I get the frights. As I’m walking along and I’m thinking I wonder if I’m going to walk back. I just wonder. And I get on and on and walk on and on and I walk and walk. And eventually I get there and kind of shelve it but you know it’s a thought that’s gone in your mind. I go into the mess. No. Not the mess. Sorry. I went and reported in and a batman showed me my room. I got myself sorted out and then I went into the mess and there was a little bugger, for a better word, with a pint of beer. He’d got wings and he’d got a DFM. And he was my sort of bloke. And the first thing he said, you know, he spoke to me straight away — his name was John Stevens. And John Stevens he’s died years ago. One of his sons, it’s got me a little bit funny because I’m so involved with family. One of his sons is my godson. His daughter lives in Jersey. She lived with us and was married from our house years ago now. Forty years ago actually yesterday. Forty years ago Sunday. But there we are that’s one of those things. They hit you on the soft spots. Anyway, so old John he’d done a tour of operations. And he starts talking to me about, you know, it’s all going on but not at that moment but the information gradually came over. One of the things was where he was such a good friend was he had a car and I didn’t have. So I had to make sure he was a good friend but he was and he said, you know, talking about operating. He said, ‘Be aggressive.’ Now then. This is not everybody’s thought at all but, ‘Be aggressive. If you’ve got any idea you can see one get the boys to fire at it. Be absolutely aggressive. Don’t, whatever you do, go through a target before somebody else is coned. Let, let you know if you’re early, whatever you do do anything but don’t be early what ever,’ And this is something and this is something you’ve trained your own navigators. But there was several things like this you know. That was for getting coned. Avoiding predicted flak. He said that his system that you don’t, you can’t do anything about first bunch. The first lot of flak. That comes and it’s too close for comfort. But you know it’s predicted automatic because there’s nothing going and all of a sudden bang bang bang bang bang all around you. So if you alter your direction, drop your height a bit, say you altered to the right or to starboard and drop down a hundred feet. And then you tell the crew look up there and in twenty seconds you’ll see a load of shells go off and you’ll see and it is. And I got caught, very badly caught in that predicted flak much later on, and when I was on 625 Squadron and taking a new crew. And the thing is keep your head. Keep counting and keep altering your direction and your height up and down. And it’s, there is a lot of luck because there’s more than one gun. There’s a gun battery but if you get another battery starts up then the timing suddenly alters and it all goes a bit wrong. But nevertheless it was all good advice. And we became firm friends and then the squadron was moved to Elsham Wolds. And I got on very well with the Elsham Wold, all the guys at Elsham and including the station commander. Group Captain Duncan did about eight flights with me as flight engineer. And you know so I was I was a bit of a party boy. Not a party boy. What do you call it? I was, it was a nice happy relationship with everyone. And I had, you know, operations. I remember the first operation. It was, this was one you remember the details and it was in Holland. I think the place is called [unclear]. I’ve actually got it. Can you? I think it’s in here somewhere. No it’s not. No. That’s the other thing. Anyway, I remember coming home. It was absolutely a piece of cake. There was no problem. It was daylight. With tonnes of fighters kicking around because it wasn’t, and the only problem coming back between Brussels [pause] I’ve looked all this up. And anyway in the Brussels area we got into a load of flak but otherwise it was nothing. It was an absolutely piece of cake. Well then the operations started and strangely I’ve got I can go through all my operations. Do you want me to do that?
CB: Later.
KT: Well it would take a hell of a long time.
CB: Later. Later.
KT: Yeah. Ok. To just tell you some of the important operations or the ones that stand out in my mind. We were going to Cologne. No. Further in. Where the hell was it? It was, and this is documented everywhere. In the tele, on the computer and everywhere. This particular raid. And it wasn’t Munich. I don’t. No. It wasn’t Munich. It was quite a, a fairly deep penetration and we took off and the, there was a massive cumulonimbus set up and we had to climb up to get over the top of it. And my rear gunner Clarrie had a problem. And he asked if he asked if he could get out of his turret. And he forgot to lock the turret. And the turret turned and trapped his legs. And brother. It says in the official report he requested assistance. In fact he was screaming. God. It’s a bit nerving when somebody’s screaming like made down the — but he, I sent the bomb aimer back, who was his friend, to help him. And when he got there the screaming had stopped. I’d said to him, you know, ‘If you don’t stop screaming we’re not going to do anything about it.’ And I think it would have crushed his legs. I don’t know. But by the time Noel got back there his oxygen had become disconnected and he’d passed out. So, he wasn’t, he wasn’t making any noise but I stopped the starboard outer engine. With the starboard engine drives the rear turret so that to stop the pressure and then he goes back there. He gets Clarrie sorted out and he gets him on the bench. There’s a rest bed just forward of the main spar on the left hand side of the port side of the kite. Anyway, he gets him on there and then I’m faced with do I — which way do I go? Do I go back home? I’m losing height and I’m going into the top of this cumulonimbus lot. And I think just start the engine. When I started the engine it looked as if it was on fire. And I left it until it was on fire and then I stopped it and it went out. So, I started it again. Left it for ten minutes and started it again and it still caught fire. So I stopped it and operated the graviner and the fire went out but I can’t use the engine any more. So I have got no rear turret but I went on to the target. Dropped the bombs. And I couldn’t get over the top of the cu nim coming back because it was a massive big front. So I went underneath and I came down low and I went underneath. And because I was only a few feet above the sea. You know, maybe a hundred feet. Something like that when after we crossed the coast and as luck would have it we never had fighter interest although we were on our own. And so that was lucky. Anyway, coming across and what do we see? A life raft with seven blokes in it. A kite has come down and we managed, we stayed there until we were just about running out of petrol but we managed to get so many things to go towards them to pick them up. There was a [pause] what do you call it, a coaster. I think he was hauling coal backwards and forward. I think it was a collier. I’m not sure but it was certainly a vessel. There was, a destroyer was involved and they motored, you know, small boats they put over the side. But the net result was I flew back and sent their exact position. And we gave their position but we could take you could plot back and give them the exact position. Anyway, they saved the crew. They were all, they picked them up. And then of course I came back and I was well late. Came in and landed and that got the first DFC. You know we did quite a few. The — oh yeah I must tell you this. Whilst in 617 Squadron and I don’t know how many operations I did there. I can’t remember. But because it was anyway I flew three different Lancasters. Now, when I say I me and my crew flew three different Lancasters that all did over a hundred operations and it is the, it’s only a statistic but we were the only bomber crew throughout the whole of the war that did that. You now, this is a heavy bomber crew. And that is, just as I say, a statistic. Anyway, we got moved down to Kelstern. Kelstern is the coldest bloody place in Lincolnshire and it’s the furthest place from a pub and thank God for Steve because we were able to do our stuff. You know. Another interesting thing the first possible night in the week when we were stood down we, Steve and I used to go front row of the stalls in the theatre and eye up the chorus. And you could, you could, there was a bar and the bar was on the right hand side of the stage. So, you went up a few steps onto — and there was this blooming bar and we’d get the direct birds into there and so we got a girlfriend for the week, you know and actually some of them, one or two of them, one of them from my point of view who I got to know quite well. And she said you get “The Stage” and you can find out where I am every week. Which was quite nice. When it was close. Not too far away. But unfortunately I hadn’t got the services of Steve then because [laughs] But anyway, so it went on. But now, what happened then? Then I had finished my tour and none of my crew wanted to stay on. Oh I forgot to tell you. Most important. When we went on to [pause] converted on to Halifaxes I needed a mid-upper gunner and he was a flying officer. Flying Officer Riccomini. And Riccomini spent the rest of his working life in the air force and retired as a squadron leader and I have been up to see him several years but I’ve not seen him, I haven’t been in touch lately unfortunately. I haven’t. He must have moved. But he had a nice house and he lived and he had quite a nice life. So, now, Riccomini was on his second tour so he only had to do twenty operations and he disappeared. Well, when he disappeared I picked up a little bloke. He was Flight Sergeant Arthur and he had done a tour and he was a, he wanted to keep going. So I picked him up as a rear gunner and he became known as Gremlin. And a gremlin was always in the rear turret. And he was, he was an aggressive little sod. He was just the sort of bloke I wanted in the rear turret. Anyway, the tour is finished so I’ve got Gremlin and nobody else. Well, on one occasion I took all the leaders. You know the bombing leader, nav leader, engineer leader and the gunnery leader and, and there was absolute hullabaloo because if we’d been shot down. And so that never happened again. But I wound up taking new crews. Now, a second dickey normally comprises an experienced crew and just the pilot goes with the experienced crew. And he does, this was how my second dickey was. But this time we took the inexperienced crew and the pilot, the inexperienced pilot came with me and would act, along with the engineer, as a kind of second engineer between them. And Gremlin in the tail. But [pause] and we do you know thirty one, thirty two, thirty three thirty four and they’re going up doing these sort of things. And then I got a dead lot. A real, and I, this was to Munich and he lost him. The navigator had lost the plot completely and we were well in over Germany. And we had, I mean I didn’t know at that. I mean one of the things you can get some, you could start to make a bit of a pattern in your mind of searchlight patterns. Where you can see towns. You couldn’t. You know. But Munich is a long way in. Anyway, I dumped the bombs, turned around and I flew. I cannot think of the course but an estimated course of my own. My own [unclear] was going to get me over the North Sea and then I’d go over England and we’d spot — we’d get a pinpoint off the ground. And anyway of course, so what happens we got into really prolonged predictive flak and it went on because I must have been on an unfortunate sort of a heading because I was going from one load of guns onto another lot and it happened. I don’t know how long we were coned, we were predicted but it went on and on and on. To keep counting on following Steve’s advice proved to be quite something but we got through the end of it and at the end of it you’d be surprised how bloody hot you are. I was sweating like a pig. And I don’t know why but maybe it was fright. It’s a thing. I don’t know. But anyway we got back to England. When we crossed the coast the bloke had got the Gee box on and he’d got the, and he told me the course to steer so I never had to go and look for the airfield. He told me the course. We came in and landed and they were sent back for training. And a very strange thing. It’s about fifteen twenty years ago. We knew a hotelier here and he said we’ve got a bloke here that used to be a pilot in the, a navigator, a Lancaster pilot in the war. ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘I’ll come and have a chat with him then.’ So I went around there and it was him. Of all the people. He said, ‘Ken Trent. He said `You chucked me out. You sent us back.’ So, I said, ‘Yeah and you’re still alive.’ You know. But anyway, so where have we got to? Now this went on and I’d applied to transfer to 617. Eventually. It wasn’t too long. Oh something before this. We came back and it was thick fog. This is actually — the funny in my voice is nothing to do with the the fog. We were, we were diverted back. I think it was Ludford Magna. And when you got there you could see it because FIDO is hundreds of thousands of gallons of petrol being set alight through little pipes. There was some pipes with little holes in and it’s going out and it takes about a quarter of an hour I think to get the lift the fog sufficiently enough to bring the kites in. But you could see the brightness from quite a long way away. Anyway, so I went to Ludford Magna. The first thing they say is how much fuel have you got? Well if you’ve got three hundred gallons you would say two hundred because you, because you knew what was going to happen. They were going to get you to [pause] and all you wanted to do was get on to the ground. Anyway, so they’d send you on a cross country and then when you came back they would, at the time they would put you in the stack. And you would be on the top of the stack. And I can’t remember whether it was a hundred feet you came down but they would bring, give permission for somebody to land and they would go through the stack an bring everybody down to the next height lower. I don’t know whether it was a hundred feet, two hundred feet. I don’t think it could possibly five hundred feet. That would be too much. Anyway, they bring you all down until it was your turn to land and when I landed and went in there was a message. My mum was seriously ill in hospital and it’s is going to upset me a bit. Anyway, I took off as I was with my helmet in a bag and I just went. You know, flying gear, the whole bloody lot. And they had a railway warrant. I went down. I went to see the hospital and she seemed as bright and cheery as if there was nothing wrong with her. But she’d had, in those days they weren’t anywhere near as advanced with cancer and they’d had a look inside and discovered — and just sewed her up again. There was another lady there she’d palled up with there and she said, ‘She’s dying. She might last three months. The doctors say might last three months.’ And so if, you know, a little later I went back to camp and of course any opportunity I was home. And I got some leave to go home and what’s she doing? She’s cleaning the place. The shop, the house, from top to bottom while she still had the strength. Before she died. I was there when she died. Twenty one minutes past ten on the 29th of April 1944 and — 1945 sorry. The end of the war. Anyway, so of course I’m I get back to camp eventually and the transfer or the posting comes to 617. And when I got to 617 Squadron all of a sudden I thought that I might survive the war. This was January 1945 and we’d lived a pretty heavy life from the drinking and etcetera and, you know, because I suppose we were just having as good a time as we could possibly have whilst we were here. But it was accepted in a way and you didn’t, you weren’t lying in bed thinking, ‘Oh. Am I going to die?’ Nothing like that. Maybe you’d had so much to drink you’d been to sleep anyway. But I, the, it was the atmosphere at 617 was it was a special place and they were all special people. But I’m not that special. I felt that I wasn’t that special. And although it was a fantastic squadron and they did some fantastic things. Things that, you’ve got to admire everything about them but I went out for a walk, came out of the Petwood, turned right and a little way on the right hand side is a farm. And there was a long straight line right up to the little cottage where the farmer lived. And I went down there looking for eggs and he was milking. And he was, he’d got — his kids and his wife were milking. And he was carrying, with a yolk, I don’t know how many but maybe five gallon, six gallon buckets. I don’t know. Four gallon. They were big buckets of water from a pond and he was carrying them in to where the cows were to water the cows. So I said, ‘Oh I’d like to have a go at that.’ And I became very friendly with the family and all the drinking went out of the window. I wasn’t drinking. And he couldn’t read or write but he was a lovely, lovely man and his wife. And while they were there they were up to all the things the farmers were doing. I haven’t, you know this to me was more interesting than the than the operations. They killed a pig. Illegally of course and they knew exactly what to do. And I could go through the whole performance but its — and the whole thing goes. When I go home, I’ve got a car by now, when I go home I’ve got a sack of spuds you know. A chicken. A dozen eggs. And a lump, a lump of bacon because it wasn’t for pork. It was for bacon in the boot. Which today of course if you were stopped by the police you would wonder what the heck but it never occurred to me that that might happen. Anyway, they’d let you off because you’ve got wings and the DFC on you. Anyway, so 617 Squadron. I didn’t spend as much time in the mess and I never made a close buddy because I was involved more with the farm and I also wasn’t drinking much. I’d have an odd beer but I certainly I wasn’t getting pissed or anything like that at all. Well. Some of the operations. The first one I did was to Bielefeld Viaduct. I can remember that as a first. I can remember the last which was to Berchtesgaden. I’ll talk, there’s a bit more about Berchtesgaden in a minute. I think there’s one or two. I’m not sure which it is. One was a viaduct and the other was a bridge and it was the bridge and I can’t remember which one it is. Arnsburg comes in my mind. But I do know it and it’s in my book. But because we know. And I had a Tallboy which was a twelve thousand pounder and — Left. Left. Right. But I must tell you. I was talking about a bomb sight a lot earlier on. Now the bomb site now was an automatic bomb site. Not semi automatic. And the, the thing that happens is this. About ten minutes, a quarter of an hour before we get to the target you take a three drift wind and it’s quite a simple thing to do. You can either do it — the gunners can do it for you or you’ve got to get the land going down straight and it gives you the direction of the wind. And you can calculate the direction and strength of wind. Or you can do it with a hand bearing compass. Anyway, the navigator does that and that’s passed to the bomb aimer who enters it into the bomb sight. Now the bomb sight is a big box of tricks to the left of the actual thing of the sight. So he feeds that in. The air speed is automatically fed in. And the height is automatically fed in. Then there are corrections for air speed and corrections for height which the navigator works out and passes and they go in. And all this time you’re flying straight and level and you have, apart from you’ve taken your sixty degrees either side to get your wind and then you’ve got near enough a ten minute straight and level flight. You’ve got the, it’s all daylight because you’re doing, you’re dropping a bomb on a particular object. And the bombsite consists of a piece of glass about an inch and a half wide and I would think say five, six inches long. Now I’m only talking from memory but this is to give you the idea. Now, as you came, as you were approaching the target and the target would start to come on to the glass and then there’s a big cross with — it’s shorter on the [pause] and it’s longer on the direction into the cross. And the bomb aimer gets it on to the end of the leg of the cross. ‘Left. Left. Right. Steady, steady. Ok. Ok.’ And then he says, ‘Bomb site on.’ And when the, that means he’s switched on the bomb site and it should, the perfect thing is that the cross is there on the target and it stays there and as you travel forward the glass gradually depresses to keep, and it should stay there. And the bomb site releases the bomb. Not the bomb aimer. And this was a really accurate but for all that the idea of the bomb was to get as close to the target as you could and you made sure. The bombs were so big. I mean there was the Grand Slam or special store that was ten tonnes. Which was a massive, it was quite a bit bigger but for all that the twelve thousand pounder would make a big enough hole for most things nearby to fall into the hole. Or [unclear] into the hole. Well this particular one and I never saw this. Only from the pictures afterwards. ‘Left. Left. Right. Steady. Bomb sight on. Bomb gone.’ And then the bomb aimer, ‘We’ve hit the bloody thing.’ And he’d hit right in the centre sideways of the bridge and just maybe a twenty foot overshoot. I mean incredible fortunate bomb. And there were three pictures and these were posted up in the very special little officer’s mess in Petwood Hotel. And the first one was a hole in. The second one was water splashing up and the third one was the whole bloody lot up in the air. That was, you know, that was something. On another occasion and now this has been recorded officially as a twelve thousand pounder bomb but it wasn’t. I carried. I wasn’t the first one by any means but I kept the first ten tonner, the first Grand Slam. The first specialist bomb that I carried. I can’t remember where we were going. But on the way out when we started to climb our, my oxygen was out of step. Wasn’t working and the squadron commander at the time was Jonny Farquhar. I shouldn’t say this but he wasn’t the most popular. Leave it at that. And he [pause] when I shouldn’t have told him but he said, he was getting on at me because I wasn’t getting up to height and I told him that we were having problems with the oxygen. And he said, ‘Go back.’ And we discussed it amongst the crew. Shall we pretend we can’t hear him or shall we go on? But we went back. So I’ve got, I’ve got, although as I just said it says in the, in the records that it was a Tallboy but it wasn’t. It was the very first one that I took up. And I blooming well knew that. Anyway, we’d then got to land and I landed ok but I came in and I thought you know I’d better just give it a little bit more speed and I was aiming to touch down right at the very beginning of the runway. And I might have touched down a third of the way down. The bloody kite floated down and seemed to float forever. Anyway, I was frightened to overshoot in case it wouldn’t overshoot with a full flap wheels and the bomb. So it stuck on the ground and we were going fast because, I mean there’s a hell of a lot of weight. And if you put the brakes on like that then you’ll burn them out in no time so you snatch the brakes and it keeps snatching the brakes until you get right to the end and that gave it a little inclination to turn to port. To turn left and of course the bloody thing was going to whizz around and it was going to wipe the undercarriage as far as I can and everything off. And I put absolutely full bore, full power on the port outer right through the gate as I turned off and as it came around. I mean how the undercarriage stood it I don’t know. But all of a sudden I shut it. I’m doing four miles an hour on the taxi trip. And that was, that to me I reckon was one of the danger spots. Now, the war. We did the Berchtesgaden. Get all the way there. The bombing leader was my bomb aimer and we got hung up. And so we carried the Tallboy all the way back home. But we used to land with Tallboys all the time. This is why I can tell you that it was a thirty five. You know, it was a Grand Slam. And I can tell you because I mean Tallboy we were bringing them back. If you had a Tallboy and somebody hit the target you would bring them back home because they were so scarce and there were so few of them. And I mean landing with a Tallboy was absolutely no problem at all because nowhere near the weight. Anyway, the war’s over. We left the Petwood. We went to Waddington. Lovely mushrooms all over the airfield. We used to pick them in the morning and take them in. Then we are sent to Italy to pick up some army types. And the first time we went was to Parmigliano. There was a great, a great party when we got there and we discovered that you could buy — oh what was it? Not cherry brandy. A fancy, a fancy liqueur that we had’t seen. Never. None of us had ever tasted. It wasn’t Cherry Heering. It was something like. What now you buy. It’s a yellow creamy lot. Anyway, I can’t remember what it’s called at the moment. Tia Maria. And it came out. I can’t remember. But say it was a pound. It was cheap. A pound a bottle or something like that. So of course we all bought a load of this stuff. Put it in the kite to sell to the pubs when we get home in Lincoln. Anyway, so we eventually next morning we’re not really feeling very well. We’re gathering all the guys up and they — I think, I can’t remember how many. The place is stuffed with brown types and soldiers and we take off and come home no problem. But we’re a little bit worried about the contraband and so we told the authorities. We called up and told them we had some problem with the engine and so they — I can’t remember where it was but I can’t remember the name. It was another place where they’d got an elongated runway. Very wide and there were two of them. Was Ludford Magna one? And was one Woodford or somewhere?
CB: Woodbridge.
KT: Where?
CB: Woodbridge.
KT: Woodbridge. Yeah.
CB: Suffolk.
KT: Yeah. That’s right. Woodbridge. Well we landed at Woodbridge. And I couldn’t remember where it was. And so we got a corporal comes out. ‘No. No. Nothing to declare.’ So that was that. So the kite’s at Woodbridge. Somebody took a look at the engine. That was alright. We stayed the night so the next day we flew back to base and we didn’t have to go through customs. So we got the stuff home. I’m near the end but I just, there are just one or two more things to tell you. One of them was we did another trip. This time we went to Bari which is the other side. And when we took off for the guys coming back home we were given a weather forecast that there was cloud. And you break through the cloud about four to five thousand feet and the cloud base was about a thousand feet or something. So we took off and climbed and climbed and climbed and climbed and I got up to ten thousand feet and we weren’t out of the cloud. And I thought well I can’t go any higher because I’ve got all these guys in the back. So, and then we started to get violent turbulence. So I said to the nav, we want to get, ‘Let me know when we’ve crossed.’ When I say violent turbulence you can’t believe it. You suddenly find your climbing at about five thousand feet, ten thousand feet a minute. Something. I can’t remember. So you stick the engine, you stick the kite down and you start losing height like mad. And then all of a sudden you get a bloody great bang and you’re descending at the same sort of speed and I said to the nav, ‘Let me know as soon as we’re clear of Italy and I aint going to get underneath it.’ And I may or not have told him we were going underneath but I had the experience of this. We were clear and I came down and down and all of a sudden I came out of the bottom and about a hundred, two hundred yards from the starboard side was a bloody great whirl of water being sucked up out of the sea into it. But we were underneath. You could see several of these all around and it was so easy from there on to fly. And we would fly back to the Spanish coast as we did the first time and then due north to England. Well, when we got back a bloke — they’d lost I think one kite. They lost a bloke. A mid-upper turret had come out of a kite along with the guy sitting in it. And another kite landed with a broken back. And they got it back and landed it. And that was the end of those. Now, the one thing I must tell you. Before I took off for this particular trip I took off and was, we was on course and the nav comes up. He says, ‘The Gee box isn’t working.’ So I said, ‘Well, it doesn’t matter does it?’ You know. He said, ‘There’s a Kings Regulations just come out. You’ve got to replace it.’ You know, ‘The regulations says you’re not to fly with it.’ If you get that you’ve got to replace it. It’s an after the war job. So I came in and as I was approaching I could feel the kite did that. Do you notice? Nothing. You know. Landed. Taxied in. No problem. Shut down. They’d changed it so taxied out. Took off. As I’m going down the runway and I’ve got to something like eighty miles an hour. Eighty five. So, and you need at least ninety five to take off. All of a sudden the runway went flying that way and I’m flying across it. You know. Careering across the grass. I put on full rudder. Bloody difficult because you’ve got this engine feathered, got the things. Put in boards straight through the gate. Took a little out of the port outer to ease it on the rudder and I’ve got my hand here on the rim, trying to, on the rudder trim. Trying to turn the trim. And the wing, we left the airfield and we’re over a field and the starboard wing touched the ground. So the net result the next thing and I’m not strapped in. The war’s over and all that and I haven’t strapped myself in and it touched the ground. I knocked the box off which disconnects, you know turns off all eight ignition switches. And there’s a handle. Have you been in a Lanc? Well you know where the handle is. You pull yourself up to get into your seat when you fly. As the pilot. Well that handle. I put, I put my hand on that and I put my head on my hand because I could see myself being smashed in to the [pause] and then all of a sudden when the bang came the thing did a cartwheel. It took the nose off. And we and there’s mud flying everywhere. My head goes through and the artificial horizon went like that. Never touch it. Next moment I’m in the top of the canopy. And the crew had got all the escape hatches off so they must have been working bloody quick. They were very quick. And I’d always said to my crew you know if ever I say, ‘Emergency. Emergency. Jump. Jump. If you don’t get out I won’t be there. I’ll be the first off. Out of this kite.’ I jumped up out of my seat, put my head in someone’s bum. Some bugger’s got in front of me. And I got up and got, got through. Sat on top. The engines are cracking as they’re cooling down. A hundred yards behind there’s the rear gunner running towards us. And the other guys are running away in case it explodes. And it looked to me to be a long way down to the ground but as you know of course it isn’t that far. But I slid down. The gunner had turned his turret to try and help with the directions. You know, to put some rudder on. And when the tail came down he burst through the doors and was dumped in a ploughed field. Sliding along in the mud. And he’s covered from head to foot in mud. Not a scratch. You know, it was one of those things. Anyway, that was I flew a few times after that but not much more. But I must do the last bit and the last bit I was posted. I thought about staying in the air force. I mean we all wanted to stay in but obviously there wasn’t a future there. You could stay you could sign on for three years and I reckoned at the end of three years it was going to be a bloody sight harder to make a living. But at the moment there were going to be millions of people coming out of the services and there was going to be a bit of money around. I’d better get hold of some of that. That’s how, and I wanted out. So they, as soon as they knew I was posted to a station. I cannot remember where it is but I bet I could find it. And I think I found it and it’s in here. But when — they don’t know what to do with you. And A) I don’t know who he was but somebody, a squadron leader bloke. I was an acting flight lieutenant then and he comes in and he takes me into an office and it’s absolutely full of paper all over the place. And it was the signals office. He said, ‘I wonder. We want you. Your job is to file all this lot. Sort this lot out. Get it in to order and file it.’ Ok. So off he goes and I sit down. It was cold. I looked at it and I thought well this is just bloody stupid. It’s a completely impossible thing to do. I mean, what can you do with it. Where are you going to put it? And it was cold so I put the first bit in the file and burned it. And two weeks later I burned the lot. All Gone. The office was tidy. Clean. Looked lovely. And I’m thinking boy this is going to be some bloody background to this. Something’s going to happen. I wonder. It’s going to be interesting. So the bloke comes in. ‘Oh I see you’ve sorted it. Good show old boy.’ End of story. I mean I just burned the bloody signals. All of them. Anyway, that is me for now.
CB: That’s really good. Thanks very much Ken.
KT: That’s good.
CB: Let’s just recap if we may.
KT: Yeah.
CB: You’ve got one DFC. What was the timing and –
KT: Ok.
CB: Occasion of the second DFC.
KT: Well, now I thought the bar to the DFC came because possibly my record in 617. And that has been my whole thought over all my life until I started to write the book. And then I got in touch with the Air Ministry and records and all this, that and the other and I discovered it was recommended by 65 Squadron. And it was nothing to do with 617. And I’m just going to add something else. I mean we’re all very old men now. And Aces High, who I think some of you may have heard of and know about they had a signing session at [pause] where’s it?
CB: Wendover.
KT: Wendover.
CB: Yeah.
KT: And there was a bloke there who was a pilot in 625 er 617 and he did thirty operations including the Tirpitz. But he didn’t do the Dams raid.
CB: That was Iverson.
KT: Who?
CB: Tony Iverson.
KT: And he doesn’t have a gong.
CB: That’s right.
KT: This is a bloke without a gong. All he got. He hadn’t got a DFC or anything.
CB: No.
KT: And this, that is true is it?
CB: Yeah –
KT: Well now I felt like writing in because it was this was Farquhar. Jonny Farquhar. He was not. All he wanted was stuff for himself or his favourites. But that man. Tony.
CB: Iverson.
KT: Iverson.
CB: He died last year.
KT: Yeah. Now I met him two or three years ago at Aces High.
CB: Yeah.
KT: I didn’t know he’s dead. I’m sorry to hear that. He was on the squadron when I was on the squadron.
CB: He was originally a fighter man.
KT: Yeah. But I thought that that was awful because he had done, in my — as I look at it, more than I did and he I thought that was absolutely terrible because he deserved it. He deserved it more than I did and I got two. Anyway, there we are.
CB: Fantastic. Thank you very much. We’re going to take a break now ‘cause you deserve a cup of tea.
KT: Oh yeah. I’d love a cup of tea. How long have we been doing that?
CB: I can’t see now.
KT: Oh I’ll put the light on. I’ll go and see if I can find some- i’ve got to be careful when I first get up.
CB: Don’t worry.
KT: I’m alright now.
CB: Ok.
KT: I’ll give you some light.
CB: We’re now going to have a break and we’ve done two hours and twelve minutes.
[recording paused]
CB: We’ve stopped the interview because ken has been going for two hours and it’s got to the end of the war although some things we haven’t completed. What we aim to do is reconvene another time and pick up on a number of points that are really important in this.
[recording paused]
CB: This interview is about two hours twenty minutes continuous. The plan is to continue the conversation at a later stage. Probably at Wendover, in the spring, when Ken’s book is due to be launched.
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Title
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Interview with Kenneth Trent
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2016-01-12
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Sound
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ATrentKL160112
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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02:13:11 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Shropshire
England--Cheshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Lincolnshire
Canada
Québec
Queensland
Saskatchewan
Québec--Mont-Joli
Alberta--Innisfail
Saskatchewan--Swift Current
Germany
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Bielefeld
Italy
Temporal Coverage
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1945
Description
An account of the resource
Ken grew up in London and joined the Royal Air Force on his eighteenth birthday as a pilot. After exams and interview at RAF Uxbridge, he went to Number 9 Receiving Wing in Torquay and an Initial Training Wing in Stratford-upon-Avon. He then trained in Canada at an Elementary Flying Training School in Swift Current. This was followed by Innisfail and North Battleford where Ken flew Oxfords. After becoming a pilot, he went to a bombing and gunnery school at Mont-Joli and flew Battles before returning to the United Kingdom.
Ken went to RAF Shawbury, flying Oxfords. He was posted to RAF Lindholme on Wellingtons where he crewed up. He was posted for a very short time on Halifaxes, followed by a Conversion Unit onto Lancasters. He then went to RAF Elsham Wolds and 576 Squadron. From flight sergeant, he quickly became pilot officer.
Ken shares some good advice he received from a fellow pilot and describes some of his operations. Ken was awarded two Distinguished Flying Crosses. His first operation was to the Bielefeld viaduct and the last was to Berchtesgaden.
Ken flew three different Lancasters for 617 Squadron and they were the only heavy bomber crew to carry out over 100 operations. During his time at RAF Woodhall Spa, he fostered a good relationship with a local farmer.
When the war ended, he went to RAF Waddington and flew back army personnel from Italy.
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
576 Squadron
617 Squadron
625 Squadron
Absent Without Leave
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
Battle
bombing
crash
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
faith
FIDO
Grand Slam
Halifax
Lancaster
military discipline
Operation Dodge (1945)
Oxford
pilot
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Kelstern
RAF Lindholme
RAF Woodbridge
RAF Woodhall Spa
recruitment
sanitation
take-off crash
Tallboy
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/588/8857/AHubermanA160329.1.mp3
b5727226db7314e09558768a459abf06
Dublin Core
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Title
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Huberman, Alfred
A Huberman
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Huberman, A
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Alfred Huberman DFC (1923 - 2023, 1671008 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He completed 31 operations as a rear gunner on 576 Squadron. He subsequently completed other operations on a second tour with the Pathfinder force at the end of the war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alfred Huberman and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
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2016-03-29
2016-04-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AS: Ok. So I think we’re ready to start. If I could put the recording machine there and that on there. So this is Andrew Sadler interviewing Alfred Huberman at his home in Hampstead in London on the 29th of March 2016 for the Bomber Command Digital Archive. Thank you, Alfred, for allowing me to come to your home to interview you.
AH: It’s a pleasure.
AS: Can I start by asking you how you came to be in the Royal Air Force?
AH: Well, my father was in the army in the First World War and he didn’t want me to go in the army and we had friends who felt the same way. They, they could only think of the war as trench warfare and bayonet fighting and he thought, he didn’t mind me at all going in the RAF actually. He was quite pleased ‘cause they could only think of the army you know as trench warfare and bayonets you know. That’s how the old timers used to talk. So I volunteered to go in the air force.
AS: And how were you selected?
AH: We went before a committee. People who, you know, examined you and why you wanted to go in and explain your reasons why you wanted to volunteer for Bomber Command.
AS: Before this time can you tell me about your background? Where did you live?
AH: Lived in Forest Gate. You know that’s not far from Mile End, you know. A bit further down near Upton Park and Forest Gate and I wanted to get in the war and get into action and I thought [unclear] because my mum and dad said I won’t go in the army. I wanted to go in the air force anyway and I volunteered in the air force when I was eighteen.
AS: So you started when you were eighteen.
AH: I went in. Yes.
AS: Can you tell me about your training?
AH: Yes. I first started training as a wireless operator air gunner. Started off in Blackpool and towards the end of ‘41 and I really, coming towards the end of it I really didn’t like being a wireless operator and I thought I’m not going to go through this, I don’t like this. I deliberately failed and re-mustered to go straight AG which they did, you know. The sent me for training as an air gunner.
[pause]
AH: Training was really tough. All kinds of things. You had to go on route marches. They made the training deliberately tough because it was tough being an air gunner and you’ve got to be tough mentally and physically to take it. That’s what the trainers all thought and the air force knew that and the quick, it quickly got sorted out, the good and the bad. You know, you could tell the guys who couldn’t make it. You know you felt a great deal of pride in being able to pass through ‘cause it was tough, physically and mentally, the training.
AS: Were there many who didn’t pass?
AH: Yeah. Yes.
AS: Where did you do the -?
AH: I’ll tell you this one thing that does seem funny. We thought it was funny at the time but quite a few rejected were those chaps who came from the Highlands of Scotland. No one could understand what they were talking, the way they spoke. So they couldn’t be correct, you know to serve on a plane. You couldn’t hear what they were talking about and there was quite a number of them who got knocked out for that but the course was so tough the weak ones were soon sorted out who weren’t, weren’t the right type for it.
AS: Where did you do your gunner training?
AH: In Bridgnorth. But you know being keen on being an air gunner I enjoyed it. The training was tough but it was, it was good.
AS: What did you do as part of your training?
AH: Well it does seem strange. We did quite a few fifteen mile, fifteen mile route marches which sorts out the weak from the strong and the weak ones did drop out and couldn’t take the fifteen miles. It got sorted out because it was a tough procedure to get through it because the corporals in charge were real tough guys and made you go, took you through the hard parts of the woods on the training.
AS: Did you join the RAF straight from school or did you work in between?
AH: I wasn’t, yeah I worked in between. I went to art school for a while in the fashion industry and I was also training at St Martin’s Art School. That’s why all these paintings that you see around are all mine.
AS: Yeah.
AH: And how can I follow on that one? I was keen to get in, to go on operations. The war was on and I wanted to get in the action.
AS: Presumably you were in East London and the bombing had started of East London.
AH: Yeah. I was in there during the bombing. We got bombed out. That’s what made me, oh that’s, I’m glad you reminded me. That’s, that’s what made me really keen to get at the Germans. We got bombed out in 1940. We went up, I had to go out and live with relatives in Leeds quite a number of months as well.
AS: How long did your training last?
AH: Well total training as air gunner? [pause] You don’t include being at OTU with that. Just solely training as air gunner. Oh God I think it was, I can’t think correctly but I think it was about six months.
AS: And then where were you posted?
AH: We passed out at the number 1 Air Gunnery Training School was at Bridgend. I passed out from there. You know, we had to do flying training there, you know, as an air gunner, you had, we trained on Ansons at gunnery school. Flying at Bridgend and it was, the training was really tough but it was nevertheless enjoyable. The comradeship was great. It all started from there. Air crew comradeship. Flying in Ansons. Shooting at drogues. We had to do, there was plenty of physical training as well. They made sure you were fit. A lot of physical training. Tough physical training every day. They kept us at it in air gunnery training. Training, you know. ‘Cause you really had to be fit. Their attitude was absolutely correct. One hundred percent correct. You had to be fit because you know, they knew you were going on trips from six to ten, eleven hours and at the time it was strenuous and you had to be really strong and fit especially sitting in the back where it was cold.
AS: What about after you’d finished your training?
AH: We then went to Operational Training Unit and to get sorted out into crews and you mixed and you talked with pilots, navigators and everything and in the mess all mixing together and you got sorted out. The first crew we got sorted out with we didn’t get on with one another. Broken up and then got sorted, got re-sorted again with another, six other chaps who found one another, talking together and we crewed up and they were a great crew, my crew were, every one of them. Super guy, the pilot especially. He was, he was a marvellous pilot and all the rest of my crew were. Each one of us. We were like brothers and he kept, the pilot, Ron Ireland he really kept his eye on us that we didn’t drink too much and one outstanding thing when we went to our first operational station, we went into the mess and of course you meet other guys that you knew during training and they came up to you and the first words they said to you, ‘Alf, whatever you do I’ll give you one bit of advice. Don’t worry or look about losses. Dismiss it from your mind because if you start worrying about losses,’ he said, ‘You can’t do a good job.’ And that was outstanding that. How they all told, told the newcomers at that point. I think it’s worth mentioning that.
AS: Where were you stationed to start with?
AH: What, operationally? Elsham Wold. Near Scunthorpe. And it was a great station. The comradeship was fantastic. The CO.
[pause]
AH: I’ll show you this.
[pause]
AH: It was Wing Commander Gareth Clayton. Later Air Marshall Sir Gareth Clayton and he unveiled a painting I gave to the, presented to the, and accepted by the Royal Air Force Museum. This is after the war.
AS: Oh gosh.
AH: The CO was a marvellous chap. He was very authoritative.
AS: And how many sorties did you do from there?
AH: Thirty one.
AS: Can you tell me, tell me about, about how you were organised and how the, each mission happened?
AH: The tour, you had to do thirty operations and then you were stood down for at least six months. After you’d done thirty operations you were automatically stood down. And the comradeship between the rest of the crew was really great. It had to be. The pilot was a strict disciplinarian. He’d make sure that we all behaved. Didn’t get drunk at nights, kept fit, which we did. And we all kept together and we became close, close friends. You know, every one of us knew each one’s life depended on the other one. Every one played their part. The pilot, the navigator, the bomb aimer, the flight engineer and the two air gunners, and the WOp/AG.
AS: Can you tell me about a typical mission? What it was like?
AH: Well you did have some kind of fear of certain operations because some operations were more dangerous than, than others and you had this fear and trepidation. Particularly of the Ruhr or Happy Valley as we used to call it and which was really tough because it was so heavily defended, the Ruhr. You couldn’t help flying over other targets, other cities which was heavily defended. Every, every one in the Ruhr, every city in the Ruhr was heavily heavily defended and they were all close to one another and when you went to bomb you passed over other cities and you were fired upon from beginning to end. I remember one operation dramatically we were going to bomb Gelsenkirchen which is just outside Stettin, next door, and very very heavily defended and I looked out the turret and I saw another aircraft was gliding slowly towards us and I said to the pilot, ‘Quick, dive. There’s another plane gliding towards us to crash. Dive quickly,’ and he dived and the aircraft passed over us and the pilot said, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘You’ve saved the lives of all the crew.’ He said, ‘If there’d have been a hole in the hatch and I put, and I could have put my arm through,’ he said, ‘I would have touched the other plane that we just missed.’ Because a lot of aircraft were lost through crashes at night you know. Not always, not easy to see. Very dark and cloudy. Many losses were caused by other planes, our planes crashing into our, into our own planes.
AS: What, what was it like being a gunner? I understood it was one of the most dangerous positions.
AH: Well it was a dangerous position but one felt really proud of being a gunner and wherever you went in England you were admired as you walked along the street. If you went into a pub, I don’t think I ever bought a pint of beer for myself. I walked into a pub, someone came running up to me and said, ‘Hey, let me buy you a drink,’ and this was like that with all air gunners. Treated like this when they went, even walking down the road. Being nodded at and smiled at. Admired. Yeah, you felt very proud to be an air gunner. We did have the toughest job because it was cold. I mean one of my worst experiences, I was going to tell you at the beginning was we were at OTU and they started worrying now about German fighters coming over England and shooting down planes at night who were in training. So this particular night they gave us a plan to go up past, straight past the Orkneys and up towards Iceland to keep away from German night fighters and what happened this particular day they said, ‘It’s going to be very very cold there and we have to take out, for the first time, the back panel of glass on the rear turret to give the air gunner clearer vision,’ on the Wellingtons and the Lancasters that were coming along but the electronic suit had just been invented which was God’s gift to air gunners. It was a fantastic thing. You had an electric suit. Wires right into the gloves on your hand and it really kept you warm but at this moment there wasn’t enough electric suits to go around. They gave it to the operational ones first. They didn’t have enough to go in Training Command yet. They took out the panel of the rear turret and they told us that night, ‘Double your socks, pullovers, get yourself really warm because it’s going to be cold.’ So I did that and as we were going over past the Orkneys it’s now getting really cold and I’m starting to freeze and one thing we were taught as air gunners if you get too cold and you start freezing you must tell the pilot and I was becoming so cold the water on my eyes was turning to ice. I said, ‘Skipper,’ I said, ‘I’m sorry to report this,’ I said, ‘But I must tell you I’m freezing to death.’ I said, ‘The water on my eyes, I’m losing my sight, it’s turning to ice and I’m just freezing.’ So the pilot said, ‘Oh my God,’ he said, ‘It’s a hundred and six degrees below zero.’ And then the navigator pipes up, he said, ‘Oh my God,’ he said, ‘I’ve made a mistake. We’ve gone fifty miles north. We’re over Iceland.’ And just to try a sidetrack at that moment I saw the aurora borealis. We all did. The pilot said, ‘Right,’ he said, ‘I’m going to turn round, go back and dive.’ He turned the aircraft out, around and dived thirteen thousand feet and the force of inertia went right through my body. It brought me round and in no time I would have been frozen to death. And when we got back to base we all reported in. Three other crews had gone on the same trip as us and three air gunners had had their big toe operated, amputated. It was so cold that night. So they didn’t send anyone up that north again. So far up. That was one of my worst experiences. I was going to tell you beforehand, you know, on operations. Before I went on operation I nearly lost my life.
AS: What planes did you fly in?
AH: That was a Wellington. Trained in a Wellington initially and then we changed over to Lancasters and then I did all my operations on Lancasters then.
AS: You didn’t do any operations in Wellingtons.
AH: No. They were being phased out. You know, the Halifax and the, the Halifax and the Lancaster took over.
AS: Did you fly in any Halifaxes?
HB: Just once. I can’t remember where or when but just once but much preferred the Lancaster. The Lancaster was definitely a more superior plane.
AS: In what way?
AH: Technically it was faster, it was more manoeuvrable than the Halifax. I did go in a Halifax, did a trip, did training on it and didn’t like it that much. Felt much more comfortable in a Lancaster. Everyone on the crew did. Well, it was proved anyway you know. The Lancaster was the [emphasis] bomber. Successful.
AS: So you did, did you do all of your missions from Scunthorpe?
AH: On my first tour yes.
AS: Oh.
AH: Yes. We got our our toughest mission was Mimoyecques. Have you heard of that? Well this was the site on the English, on the French coast and the English Channel. The CA, we weren’t given technically what the, they said it’s a very very important German base in France. They got, they wouldn’t describe exactly what it was there. He said ‘but it’s very secretive’. He spoke in words going around the operation. Being indiscreet about it and we had to go in at ten thousand feet which is pretty low you know. We’d never gone in before at that height to bomb. He said ‘because the bombing’, he said, ‘must be very very accurate’ and as it turned out it was one of the most successful, important raids of the whole war. It was the site of, it was going to be the secret site of the V3 which was never used because we destroyed it and forty five were lost on that night and Leonard Cheshire was the master bomber on that raid and it was going to be the V3. It was sixty, it was going to fire sixty rounds. Each one was. Hitler apparently had ordered this to be built and be done. It would fire in one go sixty missiles to London, that would land in London in one go. They would fire sixty missiles from the base at Mimoyecques and we had to go in at ten thousand feet because the bombing had to be very accurate for it, apparently and forty five were lost on that raid which was horrendous and because we had to go in at ten thousand feet we were an easy target. We were hit badly by flak and one of the engines caught fire. The pilot doused the fire and flying back once, he said, the flight engineer said all the brakes had gone. The pilot, the turret wouldn’t turn and we had no brakes so the pilot asked each one of us in turn should we land on the sea just on the, by the coast and get out of the plane that way and we all said, each one said, ‘No. Let’s try and get back to base.’ Well we got back to the base but we had no brakes on landing so what happened, the pilot landed the plane, he couldn’t brake, he now cut the other engine in the starboard port engine, the starboard engine had been shot, he cut the engine on the same side, on the starboard side and the, we spun round and round and round and came to a stop and just hit a tree and we all got out but the aircraft could never be used again. We were all lucky to get out. The pilot had done a miraculous job to land a plane with no, to get us all out with no brakes. Yeah, you couldn’t do an operation without something going wrong and tough.
AS: So you did thirty one trips.
HB: Yes.
AS: For your tour.
HB: Yes. You were supposed to do two. You’re supposed to do thirty and then you’re stood down, then whilst I was there on the station earlier on when we were a rookie crew you had to stand by. You didn’t go on the operations. If any personnel on one of the planes couldn’t go that night you’d take his, you’d take his place and after we’d done about six operations we stood by that night and then the pilot said, we had, he said, ‘ Alf,’ he said, ‘I’m sorry to tell you this,’ he said, ‘But you’ll have to go. The air gunner’s been taken ill. He can’t go. You’ll have to take his place.’ So ok I went in his place. It was a French target. The longest one, French target I’d ever been on, it was down almost on the, to the coast and as we got over the coast the fog was something terrible. There was fog from over twenty thousand feet high to the ground and we got nearer so we were all tuned in, could hear what the master bomber was saying and he said, ‘Well chaps,’ he said, ‘We’ll get, try and get to the target, see, maybe the fog will clear.’ Well when we nearly got there the fog hadn’t cleared and the Pathfinders were going around and around, down to three thousand feet and it hadn’t cleared and he said we’d have to cancel the raid and return home. ‘Go back. Make your way back. Drop your bombs in the sea,’ because you can’t land with bombs in your aircraft, which we did. It was a nightmare of an operation. And when I got back all my crew were all waiting for me on the briefing. I said, ‘What are you all doing there? Why are you here?’ They said, ‘We couldn’t go to sleep in our beds while you were out there. We had to wait for you to see you come back,’ and they all patted me on the shoulders you know, shook hands and what a night that was. Never saw anything of the ground. Nightmare flying through the bloody fog. Fog nearly choked us. And then the pilot come to do the thirtieth operation and the pilot said to me, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘You don’t have to come on this, this one ‘cause it’s your thirty operations. The CO’s told me that if you don’t want to come you can stand down.’ I said, ‘Oh no. All for one, one for all.’ I said, ‘I’ve been through all the lot together I’m still going to go with you with this one, so this will be my thirty first. So the pilot said, ‘Ok. Fine.’ We went and the target was one of the worst in Germany. It’s called Braunschweig, better known to us as Brunswick. Thirty miles just south of Berlin and when we got there, as we nearly got there, I saw an unidentified aircraft. I reported to the pilot an unidentified aircraft. We’d just bombed the target. An unidentified aircraft on the port side. I said, ‘I’m not sure what it is. Whether it’s enemy or ours.’ I said, ‘Well take no chances then. Prepare to corkscrew port.’ So I said, ‘I’m not sure about it. Let’s corkscrew port,’ and he did and we did a dive, went into a dive thirteen thousand feet or more. Just past the target and we flew back over Germany at five thousand feet all the way back to England. We got through. So it was quite a last night. Horrendous target.
AS: So when you, once you’d done your thirty one, what would, what did you do when you stood down for six months?
HB: They sent me to, you could have, they gave you a load of choices and I thought well I’d like to go, maybe go on a radar station on the coast and they did. They sent me to a radar station and they said you know you’ll see action in the planes there. Just sit and you know, just take it easy there. Have a, have a good rest. Myself and the flight engineer both volunteered to go and do the same thing so we both went together to the station and we were treated like lords on this radar station on the south coast. And then I missed, I certainly missed the operational, I certainly missed not being with air crew and I wanted, war was still on and it was, it was ok but we wanted to get back in to the action. We sadly missed all the air crew and the life on the squadron so I volunteered to go back which I did in February 1945 and I volunteered to go in the Pathfinder force. On 83 squadron at Wyton. And although I was operational again I was glad to be with all the air crew again and the operations weren’t as tough. Just did seven but what was really nasty the last couple were on the operation called Manna which was dropping food supplies to the Dutch. The Dutch were starving. I don’t know if you knew about that. They really hadn’t got enough food. We started dropping food at three thousand feet to the Dutch people who were starving who were tremendously, we found after how grateful they were and the German bastards even though the war had just finished but by a few days were still firing at us and shooting us down at three thousand feet dropping food to the Dutch. And a few days after the German gunners you know were still firing and shooting down our bombers. The bastards.
AS: Can you tell, tell me a bit about being in the Pathfinders?
HB: Yeah it was, you know you went in first but it was towards the end of the war. It wasn’t as bad as the early part like my first tour but I was proud to be with them because they did do a tough job and after the war I knew Bennett, knew Bennett very well. They were wonderful people. He was the commander in chief of the Pathfinder force and he was a super chap and a few years after the war I started up, I was instrumental with some others in forming the Air Gunner’s Association. It started about seven sort of years after the war because no association had been formed. We started out and we became very very active and I and others were instrumental in bringing Bomber Harris out of the cold. I had, and went to meet him and he was a most wonderful chap and he really loved his air gunners. He was at the reunions and he was always the chief guest of honour. And I’ll recall for you the story I never tire of telling. This story after the war had finished I’ll recall for you a name that by and large is forgotten now but his name was Albert Speer. Does that name mean anything to you?
AS: Oh yes. I’ve read his, I read his, his book, “Inside the Third Reich.”
HB: Yeah.
AS: And, and several books about him.
HB: Oh that’s interesting. Well he was the only German Nazi, leading Nazi who repented and he was the only one who wasn’t executed and after the war was over he got in touch with Bomber Harris and they told stories to one another about, you know the war efforts and became very friendly. During one of our reunions when Harris was there I had to stand up I’ll stand up, ‘I’d like to recall for you chaps Albert Speer as you all know, who you knew was the head of ammunitions, factories and armaments from the beginning of the war to the end’ and I had to say in front of Bomber Harris here that you will recall, I told all the audience that when Albert Speer spoke to him, Albert Speer said to Harris, ‘if it hadn’t have been for Bomber Command Germany would have won the war.’ And Harris stood up and said, ‘Ha.’ he said, ‘Right,’ he says, ‘Who knew better than him? He was our best customer.’ He’s right.
[pause]
HB: Where would you like me to continue?
AS: Please. When you were in the Pathfinders where were you stationed then?
HB: Wyton. RAF Wyton.
AS: What planes were you going up in at that point?
HB: Lancasters.
AS: Still in Lancasters.
HB: Yeah. No, I wasn’t a fighter pilot.
AS: No. And you were still working as a gunner.
HB: Oh yeah. Once a gunner always a gunner. Yes. And I’m proud to say that I also was instrumental with others, particularly Sir Michael Beetham, Marshall of the Royal Air Force in founding the air gunners, also going to get the Bomber Command Association started. I’ve been on the committee of the Bomber Command Association since day one and been vice chairman for a while.
AS: When, when the end of the war came, can you tell me about that? How did you greet the news that the war had come to an end?
HB: We were delighted, you know, we were happy to be victorious. The war, we all cheered it in the mess and clapped hands, you know, when it was announced and –
[pause]
HB: There was one incident, one nasty incident that I will recall. Just before Christmas 1945, after the end of the war, six months after the war, they thought it was a good idea instead of bringing such a long dragging trip flying the troops home from, it would be better to fly the, quicker to fly the troops home from Germany than, sort of quicker to fly the troops home that were coming back from Singapore or in Italy flying the troops home from Italy quicker than sending them back by boat. So that Christmas week they said you’ll go to, fly to Naples, fill it up with air crew from Italy and fly them back to England. It will save all that drag. So we did, we started, we flew from London to Naples which was a long trip. An eleven hour trip. When we got there, went into the mess, I meet the best friend I ever knew training as an air gunner. He, when I’d gone to Bomber Command, when I was posted he was posted to the Italian campaign and we were so pleased to see one other I can’t tell you. We clutched one another fantastically and he said, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘And your crew. I’ll tell you what you must do while you’re here in Naples. The thing you mustn’t miss’ He said, ‘You must you must go and see the ruins of Pompeii.’ He says, ‘It’s easy to get there. It’s only five miles away and all day long there’s RAF transport and vans passing from the base here past the entrance to the ruins of Pompeii and,’ I told that, he said, ‘You must get all your crew to go there with you. Yeah. Just get a guard, pay one of the guards of the, who will take you all around Pompeii. Give him a good price and he’ll show you everything that’s there.’ And the rest of the crew said oh that would be marvellous. Pulled, stick on an RAF plane, on an RAF van. We all got in it. He dropped us at Pompeii and we got out and one of the guides, not a guard, a guide I meant and we paid the guy to take us around and we followed him and he pointed out, he spoke perfect English, all the interesting things in Pompeii and then we go downstairs in to the basement and there’s an artist working with his easel there copying all the paintings, the masterpieces on the wall and naturally being artistic I started talking to him and he spoke perfect English and he was explaining everything, what this meant and what he was doing and when I got out and went upstairs I couldn’t see any of the crew, I couldn’t see a person. So I started walking around and now I’m a bit lost and it’s a big place the ruins, in the ruins. I can’t see one person and I started walking along looking and suddenly two little boys about between fourteen and sixteen came up to me and said, ‘Hey Joe, you gotta the money.’ I said, ‘Get away.’ And they said, ‘Hey Joe you gotta the money. Give us the money.’ I said, ‘No. Get away.’ And I can’t find the crew and suddenly from out of nowhere another fifteen, twenty kids started all coming up to me and started tugging at me, pulling at me, ‘Hey Joe you gotta the money.’ I said, ‘No. Get away,’ and I started running to try and get away from them and they started running after me and still there was no one around. And I’m now getting worried. They started tugging me. Pulling me. Then suddenly they started screaming out [parapachi?]. That’s like the Italian word for police and suddenly they all left and ran away into the woods there and suddenly two men with, fully armed with machine guns across their shoulders come up to me and said, ‘ah’, they spoke English, they told me, ‘We’ve saved you,’ he said, ‘They would have killed you for the money. They would have taken every bit of your clothing off.’ Because they were short of money, you know in Naples and all bloody gangsters and God knows, and the mafia there. He said, ‘They would have killed you for the money and have taken a knife to you.’ Although they were only kids, he said ‘they’re really tough ones. ‘We’ll get you back to your crew, the rest of your men, you’ll be safe. Don’t worry anymore.’ And I was, I was nearly assassinated there.
AS: Gosh.
HB: After the war.
AS: When were you demobbed?
HB: 1946. Early ’46.
AS: What did you do in the RAF between the end of the war and when you were demobbed? Obviously fetching troops back was one of them.
HB: Yeah. One of them. They had all kinds of jobs for us. I mean one of the first things we did was to fly the POWs home from Belgium and that was quite a, quite something to talk to the chaps who were POWs and we were all naturally asking them how they were treated and they all said, terribly. And they were all asking me about what it was like for us afterwards and explained to them and one was a squadron leader. I’ll never forget. He had a DFC. When we landed in England he got out. He was the first one to get out, oh and he wanted to sit in the turret during the flight back because he, he said he was shot down in 1940. You know he wasn’t used to, he didn’t know what a Lancaster was. So I let him sit in the Lancaster all, sit in the turret all the way back to England. He got out, started kissing the ground and they all kissed the ground. They all followed him. The, all the prisoners thanking, you know that they were back in England. I wonder what it was for them. It was quite an experience watching them do that, you know. It’s so emotional.
AS: After you were demobbed what did you do then? How did you settle back in to civilian life?
HB: Well the first few months were very very difficult. Incidentally, I do say this. I never told my mum and dad that I was on operations. I told them I was in training all the time and I told all the family, you know I was operations, brothers and sisters, not to mention a word to them because you know they were reading every night, every day forty, fifty, thirty, sixty lost and my father said to me, he says, ‘You must be the lousiest air gunner in the air force,’ he says, ‘You’re always in training.’ So I said, ‘Well it takes a long time,’ and then of course when I finished and I told them and you know he shook his head at me, ‘Oh yeah,’ see, ‘You weren’t a lousy air gunner.’ No. I thought, save them. Why let them go through the agony of reading about the losses every night and knowing it could have been me, me on it and you know parents did have a tough time with their children on ops.
AS: So what did you do when you came home?
HB: I went to St Martin’s Art School to study art and fashion and then [pause] after about five years, six years I got married and then formed my own fashion company designing women’s clothes, coats.
AS: You said you found it difficult when you came home. In what way?
HB: The first six months. It was very difficult to reconcile. You missed the comradeship of your friends and you know rationing was still going on and things were still tough after the war being a civilian. The government I must say was helpful. They did support me in training in the six months I studied at St Martins.
AS: So you, so you studied for six months and then, and then did you start your fashion business then or did you -?
HB: Oh no. No. I went to work.
AS: You went to work.
HB: Someone else had [unclear] it didn’t take me long to be successful. It was strange, the first six months, it really was. To settle down with mum and dad again and my two brothers.
[pause]
HB: Is there anything else you’d like?
AS: Yes.
HB: Question?
AS: When you were, when you were on the base and you were doing operations, how long was it between the different operations? Was there a long time or were they in quick succession?
HB: Sometimes you’d go two nights running which I reckoned, off the record, that that was Harris’ big, one big mistake he made. We should never have been allowed to do, to go on two consecutive, two night’s trips, come back because you, when you came back three or 4 o’clock in the morning you didn’t get a good night’s sleep. They’d wake you up the next day at 8 o’clock to tell you you’d be on operations that night. And you weren’t exactly fit. You were a bit tired. It was a struggle to force yourself but you had to do it. You know, it was an order. You had to go and I think that’s the biggest mistake that Harris made. It’s never been mentioned, that. Going two nights’ consecutive trips was a real struggle. The second one.
AS: When you were, when you were between operations how did you, what did you do? Did you have any social life?
HB: What? Do you mean when I wasn’t on operations? What? Do you mean being on leave?
AS: Well or at the station but waiting for the next one.
HB: Yeah there was the comradeship was very, very strong between the crews and the other crews. You, it was, you know you made it part of your life and there was a pleasant side of it, pleasant side of it in sitting together and chatting with one another.
AS: Did you go out at all?
HB: Yeah. We used to go into the pub at Scunthorpe. Never allowed, he warned us not to drink more than a pint maximum. He was right. You shouldn’t get your head and drink too much.
AS: This was your pilot.
HB: Yes. Or even in the mess when you weren’t on ops not to drink. He was very strict. He made sure we didn’t.
AS: And were they all like that?
HB: Yes. Well he was very strongly. My pilot.
AS: What was your accommodation like in the mess?
HB: Very communal. We always all used to chat about the operations. What they were like and coming back, how tough. Did you see this and that? Talk about the target. And the comradeship was really strong. Really strong. That’s what I missed when I went to the rest for six months you know and that was cushy. I missed the, I missed the life. It got into your blood. The comradeship of your friends. You’d be with them.
AS: You were telling me, you told me earlier about going to the Saracen’s Head in Lincoln.
HB: Yeah.
AS: Can you tell me about, about that?
HB: It was, it was a pleasure to go in to the Saracen’s Head because you met comrades you’d been in training with, now they were on different stations to you now. You met old friends and the comradeship. It was all full of air crew, the Saracen’s Head. Every, so many air crew in there, in there, all chatting and talking to one another. It was, the atmosphere was fantastic. Never before and after was there a place to go into like that. The atmosphere was Bomber Command, you know. Have you heard from so and so and seen so and so. Talk about the different raids.
AS: Did you go there very often?
HB: Did we go there?
AS: Very often?
HB: When we had a stand by, a stand down. Where? At the Saracen’s Head? You always went in there a lot. Up in Scunthorpe it wasn’t, we went in the Saracen’s Head but I look back with a great deal of pride I served in Bomber Command. I mean it was really tough at times, you know, the losses were fifty five thousand killed out of a hundred thousand. We took the biggest loss pro rata of any other force during the war and we still have that. All my best friends are ex bomber chaps. We all stuck to one another closely. You can’t find it with other people like you can with a, with a comrade. Mind you, in the army you know they had the same thing. My dad, he used to stand on street corners with others from the First World War all talking and chatting to one another in groups of three or four.
AS: Well thank you very much. It’s been, it’s been fascinating listening to your story.
HB: I hope you have. Oh what about a cup of tea?
AS: I’d love a cup of tea. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alfred Huberman
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Sadler
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-29
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHubermanA160329
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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01:10:46 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Alfred Huberman volunteered for the RAF when he was eighteen and trained as an air gunner. He describes the training and emphasises how physically hard it was. He flew 31 operations from RAF Elsham Wolds in Lancasters. These included operations over the Ruhr and the bombing of the V-3 weapon site at Mimoyecques. After he completed his tour he was stationed at a radar station but missed the camaraderie of his crew so volunteered for further active operational duties and served with the Pathfinder force at RAF Wyton. He completed a further 7 flights for Operations Manna and Exodus. After the war he was very active in forming the Air Gunner's Association and also served on the committee of the Bomber Command Association.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
France--Mimoyecques
Wales--Bridgend
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Carolyn Emery
576 Squadron
83 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bombing of the Mimoyecques V-3 site (6 July 1944)
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
crewing up
fear
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Lancaster
Master Bomber
military ethos
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Pathfinders
physical training
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Wyton
training
V-3
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/465/8348/ABaileyLMM151006.1.mp3
4e9091253c184e969b80538850e3ac75
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bailey, Lillian Margaret Mary
L M M Bailey
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bailey, LMM
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Lillian Margret Bailey
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-06
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PL: Hello my name is Pam Locker and I have come from the Bomber Command Memorial trust
today to interview Mrs Margaret Lillian Mary Bailey; in her home, and Margaret thank you very
much indeed for agreeing to talking to talk to us and I am really looking forward to hearing your
story. So do you want to just start by telling me a little bit about your family and you came to be
involved with the WAAF?
MB: Well I was one of seven children, and in those days you had to do something some war work
and I volunteered to join the WAAF so that's how I got into the air force.
PL: Wonderful, and I understand that you inherited a new name?
MB: Thats right.
PL: Tell me about that.
MB: Well I was on this station and there was WAAF drivers we were all WAAF drivers and
there was three Lillian's on it and this officer said we can't have three so what’s your second name,
and I said Margaret since then I've been called Margaret.
PL: Oh my goodness! So tell me a little bit about your time at the WAAF , how did it feel at the
start when you first joined?
MB: Well I was a bit nervous at first you know, young, I joined up at Gloucester but I don't
know what the....where you get your uniform and...but I can't remember what it was called, then I
went to Ely near Cardiff, Barrage Balloon just while I was waiting to get posted to be trained as a
driver. I hung my coat in the porch one day and I had Ten shilling note in the pocket and that was
gone, of course I got told off for leaving it in me pocket they said it would teach you a lesson. So
I remember that from that house then I went to Cardington, near Bedford where I did my MT
training. And from there I went to Woolfox Lodge that’s near Stamford and that’s where they gave me
my new name there
PL: Right.
PL: And they were Stirlings and I wasn't there long then I went To Elsham Wolds
in Lincoln there was 103 Squadron and 576 and I was.....576 Squadron was just starting up and I
was sent to them, although it was after my MT training by the way.....I was there from 1943 to 1945 we
used to take the crews out to the Lancasters at any time of the day or night whenever they were going, if
it was night time we would go back to our billet and when we were called to pick 'em up we'd put
our battle dress over our pyjamas and go and pick 'em up anytime of the night or morning.
PL: Goodness....so were you able to choose what you wanted to do did you choose to be a
driver?
MB: Oh yes, I chose to be a driver some girls didn't carry on because they were too nervous
they'd sit up in bed with a steering wheel in their hand having nightmares but I was ok.
PL: Could you drive before?
MB: No, they taught you.
PL: Right.
MB: That was at Cardington, I think they still do it there now training . And Hiliary .. Hiliary
Roberts was stationed there with me she's the only one that’s alive now that were there, all the
others passed on.
PL: How many were there?
MB: Umm?
PL: How many of you were there altogether?
MB: In the section there were about twelve I suppose drivers because you did different times then
we had bad weather snow couldn't...the planes couldn’t take off we had no water so we used to
get the snow and melt it to wash and when it was foggy and that the crews were stood down so
we was stood down aswell and we all used to go into Scunthorpe or anywhere round like that.
PL: Anywhere in particular?
MB: Anywhere in particular?
PL: In Scunthorpe?
MB: Well in Scunthorpe there was a Toc H and this lady was in Toc H, she used to tell the
airmen and WAAFs that her house was open house and we used have you could have a bar there and
go anytime and they used to feed you and all that we used to call her Mum Martin so we used to
go there the pictures but then there was the Oswald at Scunthorpe but I only went once ‘cause I was
told I was too young or something to be in there so.
PL: So how old were you then?
MB: Nineteen when I joined up but some people look older than others don't they?
PL: Indeed, so the Oswald Pier was where all the Americans....
MB: Americans all around as well as Lancaster's we used to get loads go to the aerodromes for
parties and that, a lorry would pick us up and take us.
PL: So how was your...describe to me what a typical day would be like for you.
MB: Well you had.....there was two a WAAF site and a site on the aerodrome for the WAAFs
and for the WAAF drivers that were driving the crews to the aircraft were stationed on the
aerodrome, so erm you had different hours to do like so you'd get up go to breakfast and then go
to the MT section and that’s where you'd be where you were wanted to take the airmen seven in a
crew and we had little Bedford vans with a canvas roof at the back, you know we used to take
them out in that and then they'd be there for a long while before they took off depending on the
weather and the time and that and we used to be there with them like until they took off and then
we'd come back to sections what ever time you had your meals and then err you didn’t do nights
every time, you had shifts like and that’s when you took, two girls were on and two fella drivers
and we'd sleep in a little hut there and took them out and wait got back into bed then they'd call us
and we'd have to get up and go and bring them in and then we'd go back to our billets.
PL: So you must have got to know the crews very well?
MB: Oh yes very friendly with the crew but we knew that you know they wouldn't return a lot of them
Australians, Canadians ....and then when the war had finished they disbanded 516 so then I was posted
to Scampton I was there I don't know how long but I was there then we got shifted about a bit then I
went to Lindholme where I met my husband an MT driver.
PL: So how did you meet your husband?
MB: He was abroad , he was abroad Cairo and Malta all during the war so when he came to Lindholme
he wasn't used to WAAF drivers and we got friendly and then where did I go from there? Can't think
where I went from there but I got demobbed err, I got demobbed in 55? 56, and my friend and I
Kay who was at Lindholme we couldn't settle down into civilian life so we both rejoined went to
Wilmslow to rejoin ,and then err we were sent to Margate, Manston aerodrome Spitfires and then I got
married from there. She got married but she went out to Canada with her husband we kept in contact
until last year...I think she passed away.
PL: So firm, firm friendships made!
MB: Pardon?
PL: Firm friendships made at that time?
MB: Oh yes you had to didn't you really to pal up with people.
PL: So what year did you get married?
MB: I got married in 1948 I was still in the ... I was at Manston aerodrome then and my husband
was up at Hednesford up that way then when we got married I went up there to his camp with him until
I got demobbed and then he was posted down to ...where was it did I say the he got demobbed
we bought a bungalow.
PL: And what about your own parents?
MB: They lived in Essex, Wickford in Essex and my sister was in the land army two brothers were
in the army but we were all lucky we had all escaped got home.
PL: How wonderful, so you travelled about quite a bit.
MB: Oh yes yeah, didn’t go abroad they didn’t have WAAF drivers abroad we were only stationed
in England.
PL: So what...so when you carried on after the war ended what sort of driving did you do then? Was it the same?
MB: You'd drive to a shoe factory take the men’s shoes to a factory in Nottingham, and laundry
drive big lorries and do all things like that you know.
PL: So and did you did make friends with other WAAFs who were outside who weren't drivers
who were doing other...
MB: Oh yeah ...the cookhouse but you really mostly kept to your own you know.
PL: So in your area what other roles were played by the WAAFs ?
MB: Erm Hiliary my friend she used to drive for the Officers HQ she might have done a bit on the
squadron but mostly she was driving officers around and then there’s drivers for all sorts of things
women didn’t drive the tankers it was men that drove them.
PL: Why was that?
MB: Where was it?
PL: Why was it?
MB: Well they were big things weren't they tankers.
PL: Is that the pet….Fuel tankers ?
MB: Yeah ...oh yeah you used to have to swing the lorries swing em with ....
PL: Oh....
MB: No automatic....
PL: A starting crank....
MB: And once I was on the cook's early morning and the old Ford lorries and it wouldn’t start and
you were swinging your heart out and they were sitting there waiting coz they go to go and cook the
meals got it done and going in the end.
PL: So you must have built up some pretty good muscles.
MB: [Laughs] oh yeah.
Pl: So what other memories might you have?
MB: Well you'd make a date with someone and they didn't turn up coz they didn't come back,
they didn't come back. The WAAF sights were in a woods or something, and they were Nissen
huts and you'd hear the rats running over the top at night and when it was raining you could hear
that on there you'd have to get out to go to the toilet in the dark the ablution but thats was all in
life you just took it as a matter of course.
PL: Did it feel...
MB: It was cold yeah....and know one wants the bed near the fire they was those big round
because everyone was sat on your bed when you had a bed near the fire.
PL: [Laughs] oh i see so it was it like a big pot bellied stove.
MB: Yes .
PL: My goodness ,so how many of you shared together?
MB: The hut was about fifteen or twenty something like that quite a lot, Friday night was domestic
night we had to polish the floor and do your buttons and everything.
PL: And was their a sort of a hierarchy amongst your group? Was there...were there different err...
MB: Like a Corporal you mean? That was in charge?
PL: Yes.
MB: Yes, but they didn't interfere with you really not with the MT girls because we didn't go on
parade or anything because we were always on demand.
PL: So I understand there was some sort of incident with an accident in a lorry.
MB: I was delivering shoes to a factory at Nottingham, a shoe factory all the factories were there
and I was called into the office when I got back, or a few days later said I'd hit a lampost or
something, that I'd backed into this lamppost but when he said it was I wasn't there that day,
anyway I was crying , he said what are you crying for he said so ‘cause I said I hadn't done it, he
said you may as well own up to it he said. Anyway a few days later it came back that it wasn't me
that I was telling the truth I wasn’t driving the lorry that day.
PL: So did you get an apology?
MB: Well no, he said you were crying for nothing that’s it, it wasn’t that but you were so annoyed
because knew you hadn't hadn't done it.
PL: Of course.
MB: They were accusing.... they were saying say you did it and that’s that but I wouldn’t say
it.
PL: A tough life, disciplined.
MB: Oh yeah and another incident was, oh when i was learning to drive I came over the brow of
this hill and i came a little near to this car in the middle and the instructor wasn’t taking any notice
of me he said I was alright you know, course that upset me didn't it I didn't hit it but the other
driver got out and was effing and arring [laughs] that’s another incidence I had.
PL: But you didn't hit him?
MB: No, that’s all in learning isn't it?
PL: Absolutely, you was going to tell me bit about Kay
MB: Kay, I met her at...
PL: What was her surname?
MB: Harrison, Kay Harrison at Scunthorpe ‘cause she was sent from one of the other aerodromes
that had closed down they were all closing down up in Lincoln and erm we got very pally she come
from Huddersfield, was it Huddersfield? Up north somewhere and we were , then we went to
Lindholme and then when I rejoined we both went to Manston in Kent and we used to go up, get
lifts off Officers that were going up, that were living up there to go home to our homes, as I say
she married an airman as well. Oh yeah when we used to be driving in the lorry along the high
street and the men were with their wives she'd wink at them and they'd wink back at her [laughs]
we used to laugh our heads off you watch me she'd say and she'd do that. She went to Canada
she became a nurse the last person on earth I thought would be a nurse, but we never met after
that we just used to write we hadn't got the money in those days to travel had we . [pause] Then
when I met my husband I was a Roman Catholic and he was a Protestant, he came from
Roscrea? in Ireland and they were dead against Catholics and Protestants marrying so erm we
parted for ten months because his Father wouldn't have it you know and then when I was at
Manston , when we rejoined at Wilslow in the NAAFI club in Manchester was it we used to go
there Kay and I, before we went down, and we met this fella and he knew my husband Joe he
said, I said has he got a girlfriend and he said no he's always on his own now so we sent him a
card from Wilslow and he said he went down to Wickford where I lived and kept looking for me
couldn't see me anyway when I was at Manston this other airman that came he said about him soI
wrote to him we wrote to him and then from then on we got together his Father was upset because
he wouldn't go home he stayed on in the air force ‘cause he said i was going to be the only one and
he lost contact with all his family because they were dead against it you know but then in years to
come before Dave was born wasn't it he came down and stayed with us, and he doesn't know
why he was like that really , but this is what goes on in ....we were married sixty five years we
don't regret it at all he passed away February '13, two years ago so then I came to live here with
David we only used to live down the road.
PL: So how many children did you have?
MB: Only the one, I lost two yeah.
PL: Did you want to say something about Ernest, do you remember Ernest ?
MB: What about? Oh Ernest yeah, when we was at the reunion cause every year we go to a reunion at
Elsham Wolds I've been going there for about twenty three years I only missed last year because I
had a knee transplant and course we met up with this Earnest he lived in Barnetby that's near the
aerodrome he was only about thirteen I suppose, him and his friends used to come and look in the
WAAFs through the keyhole, he told us didn't he yeah they're all young lads, used to look through
the keyholes when we was having a bath and everything and the err he said they used to go up on
the aerodrome and get on the Lancasters
PL: Really?
MB: Yeah we don't know how they done that
PL:What? Get actually into the planes?
MB: Yeah.
PL: My goodness a dangerous game I would have thought!
Mb: But they've joined the reunion now so, there's not many of us left now but all they young
nephews and sons and that have all joined to keep it going, so every year it's always a weekend
isn't it we go up and have a reunion it's a hectic weekend we have, we all meet together and have
dinner in the evening Saturday evening then Sunday we have the service and we go up to the
aerodrome in front of the waterworks where we've got a memorial and the Lancaster flies over if
the weathers suitable and it comes swooping in it goes all ways we're all waving at it.
PL: How wonderful.
MB: That the highlight of the year that is, going to the reunion then the memorial on armistice day
we go, the week before we all meet there as well, I can't think of anything else.
PL: Could I just ask a little earlier we had a conversation about Bomber Command and how its
been remembered would you like to share your own thoughts about Bomber Command
MB: [pause] I don't know what to say....
PL: Do you...one of the things that you said was you felt it had been a long time coming the
recognition.
MB: Oh the recognition of the Bomber crews which has taken a long while mostly they said it was
because of us bombing Dresden but then they bombed London first and Coventry so why it was
put against us I don't know but at last they're recognising all what the young lads went through. I
remember once a Lancaster landing and the rear turret was hanging from the back of it and the rear
Gunner right down his side and the crew didn't know it was hanging there they thought it had
come off you know . That's one memory, then we saw them bailing out over because the
aeroplane was too damaged to land and all the crew would bail out on the aerodrome. I mean you
were young then you didn't take things so seriously did you, you should have done really you just
thought well this is what we've got to isn't it and you did it. But I, we all enjoyed our times you felt
like you were doing something it was either going in munitions or land army or something like
or the army and I chose the Air Force. And being in the Air Force was the best time of my life
because I was that age met plenty of friends. It was hard to settle down when you come out. But
we all kept in touch with all the friends WAAF drivers and my husband used to come with me,
they used to come to reunions and we went to all their funerals gone, there was Jean Clacker she
was a driver and she went out to one of the dispersal and she saw this airman there and she came
back and said "I'm going to marry him" and she did! [laughs] 'Oh I'm going to marry him' she
said.
PL: What was the dispersal?
MB: Oh that was where the aircraft drove in to be parked and there was a nissen hut there and we
all used to get in there waiting, to go off the crews to go off and that.
PL: Do you remember any of the others that were in your group?
MB: Err there was Margaret,
PL: The two Margarets [laughs}
MB: Yeah another Margaret, Margaret Hawkins and Eric that's her husband now Hawkins
....no...Eric I can't think of his name but we always went to the reunion but they've both passed
away so nearly all my friends have gone, Rose lived at err Ipswich.
PL: Is there anything else at all that you would like to share with us before we conclude the
interview?
MB: Only that I was glad I was in the RAF I enjoyed it although there was sad times and good
times and when we go to our reunion it brings back alot of memories although we all look a lot older
now. Oh I had my photo taken it's at Manston Aerodrome and a documentary a Spitfire was flying
in with a pilot and I was standing waving, distracting him and it's on a film but I've never seen it but a
friend of ours joined the RAF and he they were showing it to him and he recognised me
PL: How wonderful and when was that? When was the film taken?
MB: That was about 1948 or 47.
PL: Goodness, so somewhere there's a film of you,
MB: Yeah Somewhere....
PL: Somewhere your fame, fame at last
MB: You tried to get it did you? So, I know it's there ‘cause he's seen it when they joined up they showed
them all these films for accidents and all that Kay was there aswell but they picked me out , i don't know
why but they picked me out to do it.
PL: So you were told you had to distract him?
MB: Yeah.
PL: So this is Health and Safety 1940's style?
MB: [laughs] Yeah this is what they are teaching the trainees and all that what they shouldn’t be
doing.
PL: Well Margaret that’s absolutely wonderful thank you so much for sharing your....
MB: Sorry, I can't think of anything else but...
PL: I think all those memories are absolutely wonderful thank you so very much indeed
MB: You're welcome ...oh another thing I remember is when the aircrew the Lancasters were
taking off it didn't matter what time of the day or night we'd all be out there waving them off so
that made them feel good as well all waving and one airman that i was friendly with he err , we
used to meet up and go to the pictures and that and he said to me ‘we're all frightened we're all
scared none of us are you know….’ ...however young and boisterous and that when they went on them
operations they were really frightened, he never came back either and a lot were taken prisoner of
war and at the end of the war the Lancaster went out to bring them back from prisoner of war
camps and they said you wouldn't recognise them they looked so old been in a concentration
camp, so it was hard for them wasn't it.
PL: Very hard , do you know those concentr.....where they they sent?
No, i just know that they brought them back. I think that's all I can't remember anything else
PL: That’s wonderful thank you.
DB: He was a pilot wasn't he Mum?
MB: I think he was a Gunner......
PL: So tell me who Ken Duddle was
MB: He was the.....
DB: He was the chairman of Elsham Wolds
MB: He was the chairman of the Elsham Wolds but he's retired now?
DB: But in the war he was a pilot wasn't he?
MB: No i think he was a Gunner
DB: He was a Gunner was he?
PL: So what was his role? He would include the WAAFs in the memorial services?
MB: In everything, he included and we Hiliary and I appreciated that because the others I think they
think they are above you don’t they the Aircrew and they've got ranks Sergeants and warrant officers
and all that but then that goes on in everything doesn't it?
PL: So we've just been looking at some of your wonderful photographs and you've got a lovely
photograph of your wedding but tell...just share with us how you got your dress.
MB: Well when a WAAF got married and they, the Air Force lends you a wedding dress the
Americans have given these wedding dresses to the Air Force and we've borrowed them we had to
pay a pound to have them cleaned when we handed them back, as you can see it's a beautiful dress
PL: Oh when you handed them back?
MB: Yeah when you handed then back
PL: Not to get them cleaned before you wore them?
MB: No I expect the person that handed them back had it cleaned, they cleaned them I suppose but you
paid a pound.
PL: Wonderful.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lillian Margret Bailey
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pam Locker
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-06
Format
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00:41:16 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABaileyLMM151006
Description
An account of the resource
Lillian Margaret Bailey volunteered for the Women's Auxiliary Air Force and after a brief time in RAF Balloon Command was trained as a driver. She served at RAF Elsham Wolds driving aircrews out to their aircraft.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Carmel Dammes
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Balloon Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1945
103 Squadron
576 Squadron
fear
ground personnel
Lancaster
memorial
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Elsham Wolds
service vehicle
Stirling
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force