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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/589/8858/AHughesWR150713.2.mp3
18e37bacec69f09e545be17b9d8cdabd
Dublin Core
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Title
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Hughes, Bob
William Robert Hughes
W R Hughes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Hughes, WR
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Bob Hughes (751133, 137124 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 149, 50 and 23 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
NM: So, this is now recording, and my name is Nigel Moore, I’m the interviewer, and I’m interviewing Flight Lieutenant Bob Hughes on the 13th of July. I’m in Mr Hughes’ home in North Hants. So, Mr Hughes, would you like to tell us something about your upbringing and your life before you joined the RAF?
BH: I was only a, a ordinary seniors school and I never went, never passed Eleven Plus, so I went to the, one of the senior productive schools and then I, I passed, I suppose, most things, you know, and when the opportunity came, I took [unclear] said we had a – I’d been working as a coachbuilder, or in, with a coachbuilding firm, and we were, were making Rolls Royce – taking Rolls Royce chassis in and making them into finished cars. And while I was there, we had a fellow named Serge Kalinsky, he was a Scandinavian diplomat and he started swearing and said ‘There’s gonna be a bloody war any time now! Within the next few months, I guarantee it, in the next few months!’ So, knowing that I – my father had had a rough time in the army, in the trenches, I thought ‘ Well, no army for me, I’m gonna join the air force now,’ because Sywell was a handy aerodrome, so I went and joined weekend air force. And, once I was in there and the war was declared, naturally I was transferred straight away into the main RAF. And, erm –
NM: So, you joined a reserve squadron, did you?
BH: That’s right, RAF Volunteer Reserves. And I don’t know the na – well, I think it was 23 Squadron that I went to, which was when – during the Battle of Britain.
NM: So, how – can you describe your training, your flying training?
BH: Flying training?
NM: What were you training on? What were you flying?
BH: Well, mostly, in Ansons and, well, you know, I, I’m terrible at trying to remember the names of these aircraft tonight, but the – oh dear, two, two, two engined, the planes that we flew in, and – oh, I can’t think of the, the names, have I got it in here at all? [sound of turning pages]
NM: Not to worry, what about the training itself?
BH: Well, this was to go in these aircraft and did a few bail-outs practices and in the, in the, oh dear, in the yards of some big firms where they, they’d got escape possibility there, so we tried, tried those out several times. [background noises, turning pages]
NM: So, you say you flew in the Battle of Britain?
BH: Yes.
NM: What –
BH: That was in Blenheims.
NM: Can you de – can you talk –
BH: Now, this is the thing: quite often, when the Battle of Britain is mentioned, it’s either – what’s the two [unclear] the two aircraft that were always noticed? I think every time they mention these two aircraft, I think, how about the Night Shifts? ‘Cause I flew in, in the, in the Night Shift, and the aircraft we flew in wasn’t – oh dear, I’m terrible at names, I’m a terrible, terrible person to interview, really, because my memory is absolutely shocking. Blenheim, yes, but [pause] these, these were the usual things that we flew in those days, Ansons and Blenheims.
NM: So, can you describe the role that you played in the Battle of Britain flying these Blenheims?
BH: Well, I was a wireless operator/air gunner, and of course, in the, in those aircraft, you could picture everything, what am I talking about? Got a picture here [background noises].
NM: Yep, there’s the Blenheim.
BH: That’s – do you rec – do you recognise the one?
NM: Mr Hughes is pointing out a Mark 1 Blenheim.
BH: Mark 1 Blenheim, yeah, that’s right, yeah.
NM: ‘S’ right, and you were –
BH: And we had a, we had a turret on the top.
NM: And that’s where you were.
BH: When I flew later, in, in the big aircraft, the four-engine aircraft – they’re all here [background noises] when I flew later in the Wellington – that one’s the Lancaster, that is the Dambuster, they’ve got no turret on there but we, where we flew in the Lancasters, we had a turret, you see but previously, during the Battle of Britain, it was on, on the twin-engine aircraft.
NM: So, when you flew the Blenheims during the Battle of Britain, were you on bombing missions, and what – if so, what were your targets?
BH: Well, it, we were on defence.
NM: On defence?
BH: Defence patrol, up and down from the south coast up to, up the Thames Estuary, most of the time. [pause, sound of turning pages]
NM: And this was – were you called the Night Shift?
BH: The Night Shift, yes. There we are, there’s the aircraft. And that’s the flew – the pilot I flew with most of the time, this is Alan Gowarth [?] and that was, yes, and all Blenheims.
NM: So, this was Number 23 Squadron, night –
BH: 23 Squadron, night fighter squadron, yes.
NM: And can you describe your operations flying for 23 Squadron?
BH: Well –
NM: In the Blenheim?
BH: It was a, a patrol, up and down from the south coast up the Thames, the Thames Estuary, keeping a guard on things to the starboard, you know, any incoming aircraft, and we, we had quite a few that we, we followed, and went and dived down with them but we didn’t actually have a contact. [Pause] This first one, yeah apart from anything else, we had anti-aircraft cooperation, searchlight cooperation, going backwards and forwards along the Thames Estuary. That’s what they were: night defensive patrols. And that was, that’s the fella, fella that I flew with most of the time.
NM: So, you encountered a few contacts but didn’t actually –
BH: We didn’t see anybody shot, shot down but we, we fired at them and we saw the bullets, you know, sort of going their direction but didn’t see anything falling down, not then.
NM: And what type of aircraft were you engaging?
BH: It was a Blenheim. Oh, I don’t know; well, they were twin, twin-engined aircraft, yeah. I can’t –
NM: Okay.
BH: Think of the name. [sound of turning pages] I’ve got a picture.
NM: So after the 23 Squadron, how did you move to – can you describe how you moved from Fighter Command to Bomber Command?
BH: Well, at the time, they were losing a lot of crews and aircraft and crews in, in Bomber Command, and so they were asking for volunteers and I volunteered to – went to Number 9 Bomber Squadron, which was at Honington, but I only did one air test with them, and then I was asked if I would volunteer and go to one, 149 Squadron, which was at Mildenhall, and that’s where I did most of the bombing trips that I did, up to, up to seventy-three, but they weren’t all to Germany. A lot – we had a spell over in the Middle East, and it was Benghazi that we were bombing then.
NM: So, the start of your operational life with 149 Squadron –
BH: 149, yes.
NM: Was that –
BH: Mildenhall.
NM: At Mildenhall.
BH: Yes.
NM: And –
BH: And we were –
NM: And how did you – can you describe how you met your crew and got a crew together?
BH: No, only a sort of friendly meeting and you like the look of somebody and who you think was, was genuine. This first fellow we went – I flew with was a Squadron Leader Heather, and we went to Wilhelmshaven, [unclear] class cruisers and we were, we were bombing all around it, when this – oh, we went there again another night, repeat, repeat. I tell you what, when we first, when we first went there, they, they took us to canal, canals, and we got to aim in the canal with the mines, and mind you, was such a narrow mine, margin, and having such a small tar – item, when we got back home, we told them how difficult it was, so we suggested ‘Why not bomb it instead of just putting mines there?’ So they sent us back the next night to, to do that. That was Wilhelmshaven.
NM: So, at this point, you were flying Wellingtons?
BH: Wellingtons, yes.
NM: And this was in nineteen-forty –
BH: 1949, February ’49.
NM: Forty – 1941?
BH: Ah, no, no, beg your pardon.
NM: Yes.
BH: Yes, ’41, yes.
NM: So, can you describe squadron life on 149 Bomber Command at Mil – Mildenhall?
BH: Well, it was just –
NM: What was life like?
BH: Just a friendly get-together, you know, I’m ninety, nearly ninety-five now and I was twenty, twenty then, nineteen or twenty. So, you know, to remember exactly what we did, we got friendly; whoever we met, we made friends with and wanted to know how we got on.
NM: Did you go out for nights out around Mildenhall? What was – what were they like?
BH: Yes, yes, but, you know, just a drink here and there and, but nothing to really note.
NM: And what about your crew? Do you have particular memories of your crew?
BH: Yes, I think I, quite honestly, having done so many and for such a long period, long number of ops, I reckon I was very lucky picking the, or matching up with a good set of wonderful pilots. You see, each of the pilots I flew with were absolutely wonderful; they seemed to go to the target and did the business and get back, no messing and no wandering about all over Germany.
NM: And how about the rest of the crew? Were you a close group?
BH: Yes, yes, I think, generally speaking it was with the naviga – with the observer, or navigator, as they were then, more than anything, and because with the navigator, it was a question of, when we got over the target, sort of the geography of the place. I remember one of the things, one of the worst op we went on was Essen, and the geography of that place was so – we could spot it out as easy as anything. [Pause] But then later on, we did a lot of coast, coastal things like Wilhelmshaven, bombing the cruisers there, they, they took [unclear] class cruisers up the, up the, the fjords.
NM: Why was Essen such a bad target?
BH: Well, being an ammunition manufacturing place, I believe it was very heavily defended because of that. I mean, it was a manufacturer of, manufacturer of explosives and suchlike, and we seemed to cruise around it quite a lot, and anyhow, I was always telling the skipper, ‘Such-and-such is at the, on the starboard side,’ or, you know, ‘We’ve got to turn a little bit to the port to get this thing.’ That was on a reserve flight, 149 Squadron, and then I went to a reserve flight at Stradishall where they were preparing to get crews to go out to the Middle East, and then I had a spell in the Middle East.
NM: So, just back on your bombing raids here, over Essen and other German targets, you were giving instructions to the pilot –
BH: Oh yes, yes!
NM: To help him to do what?
BH: Yes, notifying where the canals are shooting off, to the south or the, the west, you know, that sort of thing. On very sunny [?] nights, the, the water whether it was a river or a canal, you could spot it that much easier, and you would report, you know, what you could see.
NM: So, tell us a little bit how you then transferred out to the Middle East. Was this the same squadron, was the whole squadron go out to the Middle East?
BH: Oh, no, no, it was with a, a, I was with this, what, this one point one, this reserve flight to start with, wasn’t I? And then, then we heard that there’d been so many losses, crew losses, and there were appealing for people to, to go to transfer to the Middle East, and so I went to this reserve flight at Stradishall, and from there, via Malta, I went to, to 70 Squadron in Kabrit, which was in Egypt.
NM: That must have been quite a change. What – can you give us your memories of the change in going to the Middle East?
BH: Well, the thing was, we had, we had a turret to go to, and the preparations for, for raids and things were absolutely marvellous. We had an advanced base; we used to land in the desert and then take off again for the raid. Well, this one here, the first one we had, operations against enemy was Menida [?] Aerodrome, so actually, I liked the possibility of going into the front turret if we were going and attacking an aerodrome, so we can go ‘round and, you know, shooting up the, the, the arm – armoury points.
NM: So, you moved from the mid upper to the front for these raids?
BH: That’s right, yes, but most of the time, you know, we were, when you were in the rear turret, we were solely concerned about attacks by enemy aircraft, you know? So, most of our light was emphasised downwards. [Pause] We had one or two come up to us and nose – nosing towards us and managed to tell the pilot to do a dive and then we went down in, in a curve dive, you know, and got shot of them.
NM: So, you encountered enemy aircraft?
BH: Yes, yes.
NM: On many occasions?
BH: Oh, at least, oh, I’ll just think, at least a half a dozen times.
NM: So, tell us about squadron – your memories of squadron life in the desert. How different was it from the UK?
BH: Well, of course, water was the problem, sort of rationing out water, you know, and sort of having exercise, running and all the rest of it, but had to avoid having too much water. But then, in the desert, particularly, that was an even worse problem. [Pause] That was a thing that we did quite often while in the Middle East, was staffing the motor transport on the – between Cairo and Benghazi. The, the main road was, was used quite a lot by the enemy and we’d attack transport along there, and railway sidings, particularly, so they would try bringing the forces, German forces, into the desert via Benghazi and so we attacked the– oh, I can’t, I was trying to think of the, the general’s name: Rommel. Rommel was bringing all his replacement troops into Ben – Benghazi, so we went there and we – well, they called it the mailroom [?] because we hit it so many times, but it was where they were bringing the re – the new forces in.
NM: And were these daylight raids you were on, or night raids?
BH: Mostly night, but we did one or two; well, yes, I should think about a third of them were daylight, but mostly night. [Pause] Then it was a question of geography and remembering the shape of the, the land underneath you, whereabouts you’d got to. Location, on the main way up to Benghazi, we had to sort out Bardi – Bardiyah and Menidi [?] for erm, to locate us that we were hitting the right thing. Railway sidings were attacked an enormous amount, but we had to sort out our geography to make sure we were bombing, strafing the right things. [Pause, sound of turning pages]
NM: So how did, how did your war continue? Can you describe – were there any changes over this period, 1941, in terms of how the squadron life continued?
BH: Well, towards the end of my period, we did a lot of education of fresh crews.
NM: Who had come out to Egypt?
BH: Yes. [Sound of turning pages] Oh, this is Pershore.
NM: Is that –
BH: Pershore, that was the OTU there, Pershore, where I did a lot of bombing from there, and then on to 12 Squadron.
NM: So, tell me how you managed to get then transferred back from the desert, back to Bomber Command in England.
BH: [Sound of turning pages] 50 Squadron [more turning pages] It’s in –
NM: What happened between 70 Squadron and, and 50 Squadron?
BH: We – everything was going alright and we were bombing everything we were asked to, and, but then they were asking for volunteers to do – to go to, to England again.
NM: So, did you volunteer on your own or did the entire crew volunteer?
BH: Oh, I volunteered on my own, I think, but this was 50 Squadron, 5 Group, Skellingthorpe, it was a liaison visit we did there, and while we were there, they wanted us to go to, to – on Lancasters to Magdeburg. As a matter of fact, I’d been on seventy-two trips, missions, and I’d never once been to Berlin, somebody was talking about going to Berlin, so we went to Magdeburg, and after we’d bombed there, the skipper says ‘See on the starboard side, you’ll see Berlin, Bob, and that’s the nearest we shall get to it!’ [slight laugh] And of course we got ‘boo’s by the rest of the crew, and that’s where we finished up. That’s the seventy – that was my very last mission.
NM: So, we’ve jumped ahead into 1944 from 1941.
BH: 1944, January ’44, yeah.
NM: What – going back a little bit to coming out of Egypt into – back to England: you say you went to an OTU?
BH: Yes, yes.
NM: And you were still flying Wellingtons?
BH: Yes, as a trainee. No, not as a trainee, as a –
NM: So you, you became an instructor?
BH: Instructor, yes.
NM: What was it like being –
BH: Yes, was that ’43? January ’43.
NM: That’s ’43, yep.
BH: Yeah, that’s right, went to an OTU.
NM: So you became an instructor?
BH: Instructor, that’s right.
NM: What else –
BH: And we did an operation from there at – oh, to Essen, several times.
NM: Just what was it like converting from a Wellington to a Lancaster? Can you –
BH: Well, we were –
NM: - describe it from a crew’s point of view?
BH: Well, we had wonderful turrets on the Lancaster and, well, I think we were just pleased that it’s – that it was a new aircraft and we’d got four engines, you know? I don’t think we gave it much sort of consideration as to whether it was better or not, it just – we just accepted that it was [emphasis] better, and we were moved fa – we were flying faster. They, they were some of the worst planes [?] we did with Essen and mine laying, oh, we did a mine laying off Heligoland and that, that was a bit dicey; they seemed to have high defensive, the defences at these places. [Pause] While we were on OTU, of course, we did a lot of experience in cross-country, knowing our way about, you know, air-to-air fire, firing and air-to-sea firing, and that’s just for practice.
NM: Describe a little bit life as an instructor as opposed to operational air crew.
BH: Well, I was quite happy about that; I mean, I knew what I was talking about and the – I, I did see quite a lot, the fellers were coming to me for, you know, ‘Well, how do we, how do we sort out this?’ you know, the rear-see [?] retainer keeper, this was a familiar phrase, you know, ‘How do we deal with this when we’re still flying in the air?’ you know? You’ve got to do it with blinds – blindfold, and that was the case in some, sometimes, ‘cause there was machine, with machine guns. [Pause] That was the last trip we did, we were attacked by an ME-210, that was the target, and fired hundred and fifty rounds but there was no confirmed hits. [Pause] I’m sorry I’m not able to answer your questions quite as freely as I ought to, really.
NM: No, don’t worry about that, you’re doing wonderfully.
BH: Well, a few years ago, perhaps I should – I’m a bit more chatty, but – [pause, sound of moving papers] You’ve got a record of service here, you see: I joined in May the 12th 1939, I joined the RAFVR and received calling-up papers, then, into the regular air force in August of that year, August 27th.
NM: So, when you came to the end of your operations, why did you finish operations? Had you done, finished a tour, or –
BH: Yeah, well –
NM: What happened after your last operation?
BH: [Sound of turning pages] Oh yes, joined an AF – was an AFU, that was the training unit.
NM: So you became an instructor again?
BH: That’s right, yes, on gun, guns and armoury.
NM: And that took you to the end of the war, did it?
BH: Yes, well, February, February, no, Oct – no, October ’44. [Pause] Various aircraft that I flew in was a Blenheim Mark 1, a Fairey Battle, that was an early, early one that I flew in a lot, and then the Boulton Paul Defiant, which we did most of the shooting with on, on nights, and then the Avro Anson that, this was a transport aircraft most of the time, and then in the Wellingtons, I flew in the 1, 1C, 1A, Mark 2 and the 3, and then the Avro Lancasters, Marks 1 and 2, and 3. Oh, also, I flew in the Lysanders quite a few times, and Blackburn Bothas; Blackburn Botha, they were used to use for training quite a lot. I know they weren’t very popular for some reason, but they did the trick.
NM: So they were the training aircraft?
BH: Yes, Bothas.
NM: So, I’m interested in the Lysander, your role in flying in a Lysander; what was your role then?
BH: My role then was to, to, to take us into the desert for take-offs, they just, for operations, or to res – rescue from the desert after we’d landed. That’s when I used the Lysander a few times, was for – was rep – was actually saving, you know, escape. I flew also in Fairey Battle, Ansons, Bothas and Lysanders. Well, the Lysander, as I say, was a thing to save you, you know, sort of a –
NM: So, of your seventy-seven operations, either in the desert or across Germany, are any particularly memorable for you?
BH: Seven – seventy-three, it was.
NM: Oh, seventy-three missions.
BH: Yeah.
NM: Okay.
BH: Well, yeah, occasionally we got caught out with the ‘Un [?] defence plane catching catching up with us, but most of the time, we were wide awake to it and whenever we saw something on the starboard or the port side, we’d tell the skipper and we’d dive away. [Pause] Course, one of the main things, maintenance, was the machine, with the machine belts, belts of machines, you know, sort of making sure we didn’t get caught up on those. [Pause] Anyhow, there’s a – unless there a record of service in the whole, the whole lot, that I, you know, kept it down to a minimum there. I went recently to Clarence House; my wife’s been there to the Queen.
NM: When you look back on your time in Bomber Command, what are your main thoughts?
BH: Well, I was glad I was available to do it, and the friendship that you made with most of the people there was pretty good. [Pause] That was the thing; with the link trainer, I used to enjoy going in that, flying the various things through the link trainer.
NM: How do you think Bomber Command has been treated since the end of the war?
BH: What? Haven’t really, haven’t had any more to do with it or knowledge of it, really. No, I don’t think that we’ve – I think we’ve, we would have cottoned on to it a bit more if anything had gone wrong, but everything seemed to be right, we sort of sorted all the problems out.
NM: Do you think Bomber Command has had enough recognition since the end of the war for what they did, or what you did?
BH: Well, yes, I think so, I think we’ve been reason – reasonably recognised.
NM: Tell me about your life since the end of the war. Did you stay in the RAF long?
BH: Oh, no, when – I had been with a firm that repaired converted Rolls Royce from the chassis into a cars, you know, and it was a good firm to work for, and I, I did a lot of this, this work, and this is how I came to meet this Kalinsky, who came in with his Wellington, with his Rolls Royce, and so he told us that there was gonna be a war, so that’s what made me go into the fleet, into the reserve occupation, so that when I was called up, I was bound to be in the RAF.
NM: So, on leaving the RAF, you rejoined the same company?
BH: After – do you know, my memory, my memory’s terrible. Yes, I must, I must have done, went straight to Mulliner’s, who were coachbuilders, class coachbuilder, they were mainly, mostly London but we had a branch in Northampton, and then [pause] think I got the DFC for my last, last trips over Essen.
NM: So you were awarded the DFC?
BH: Yes, that was December the 12th, 12th of the 3rd, ’43, and then the other thing later, the RAF.
NM: What was the background to the award of the DFC?
BH: We were on – trying to see where this is. [Pause] Oh, it was on the second tour, I’d done a tour of ops already and volunteered for another, and it was during this that I was awarded the DFC on the secondary tour, tour.
NM: Was the reason for the DFC because of your –
BH: Length, length of service, service.
NM: Length of service, rather than a particular –
BH: Yes, volunteering for so mu – so much with the, with Flying Command, with Bomber Command. I went to another squadron, 950 Squadron, we went to, on operational liaison duties, did that quite a bit – it was nice to go to other squadrons and find out how they were getting on and tell them what we did.
NM: So that was between your tours?
BH: Yes, yeah.
NM: So, what was the role you played as a liaison officer, then?
BH: Oh! [laughs] I was to sort out the ammunition, and of course, in the early days, we had the pans to slap onto aircraft, onto the gun, but later on, of course, we had machine belt, belt machine, belt ammunition.
NM: Did you see much evolution in air gunnery between 1939 and 1945? Can you –
BH: Yes, well, we had a lot of new aircraft, new guns coming along, American, lot of new American guns that we were using, and also the, the loading, the belts, not just the belts, but ammunition belt, pan, pans. I don’t seem to be able to tell you anything more positive, really, you know, but –
NM: You received a commission during your service, didn’t you? Because you joined as a LAC and -
BH: LAC, yes.
NM: And moved up to flight lieutenant.
BH: Flight lieutenant, that’s right, yes.
NM: What was the history there?
BH: Well, I’d been, I’d been moved from one place to another and volunteered for so much, much, and there was a lot of training and did a lot of training with pupils coming along. [Pause] Show you this last one there; we had an enormous amount of people with us, we had somebody with seventy-two – oh, that was me with seventy two! So, if all the others had had twenty-four trips, then we were – this was a mission for, for training. It was a voluntary – well, it was while I was on a liaison trip to, to Skellingthorpe on training for, for measured score [?], I said that I’d, I’d done seventy, seventy-odd trips and I’d never been to Berlin, so this gunnery leader there said ‘Well, you’re alright, well go with us tonight,’ got to the end of the runway and this aircraft, this aircraft, yeah, this aircraft, and the target was changed to an alternative, and in the end, we went there and bombed that, and as we come away from it, the skipper says, ‘Well, you’ve seen Berlin on the right, on the starboard side,’ he says, but you know of course, the rest of the crew didn’t care too much for this, they wanted to get home, back home [slight laugh]!
NM: Do you keep in touch with Bomber Command through squadron associations or reunions?
BH: No, that’s – do you know, apart from our local reunions at Sywell, I haven’t gone back to any RAF squadrons at all.
NM: And what’s your association with Sywell?
BH: Well, our, our early training was there, we, we – it was the first aircraft we flew, flew in. We – every opportunity we had of getting a flight, we, we, we took it, you know?
NM: And you get – you go back there now for reunions?
BH: Oh, yes; well, we’ve got a Battle of Britain fighter association, and also, there’s a local – we’ve got a gunnery leader and – oh dear, what do we call the things now? We go to Sywell for the reunions for air, air gunners, all the air gunner, local air gunners, and we joined this local Battle of Britain – no, not Battle of Britain fighter association, it’s the – we joined this – oh dear [pause] gunnery association, really. Do you know, I – my mind’s really terrible.
NM: And do you still meet as a group?
BH: Oh yes; at Sywell, we’ve got a, quite a nice little bunch of fellers there, I think about, we’ve had as many as fourteen or fifteen, but it gradually faded, you know, died off a bit, and so we’re only getting about three or four of us go, once a month.
NM: And are these just socials, social get-togethers over lunch, or just to talk about old times?
BH: No, just at the, the aerodrome at Sywell, where there was a bar there, you see, that was the attraction amongst. There were various cross-country trips, you know, to renew our flying experience.
NM: When was the last time you flew? Was it at the end of the war, or have you flown since the end of the war?
BH: [unclear] [sound of turning pages] So, Uxbridge, we had a – was Bishop’s Court – was about ’44, February 44, it says.
NM: You haven’t flown since the war?
BH: No; oh, well, not air force. I, I, we’ve flown private, private flying ‘cause we’ve got some friends in, in France, we used to go nip across, you know, by ordinary aircraft.
NM: Okay. Shall we stop the recording there?
BH: Yes.
NM: I think.
[recording is stopped and restarted]
BH: Well, people had lost their logbook, or oil. So I managed to rescue mine and copy this from it. [Pause] Who was that?
NM: So your logbook doesn’t exist anymore but you’ve copied all this out from it?
BH: Oh, yes, that’s right, remember him.
NM: So, are you still in touch with any of your original air crew?
BH: Well, I was in touch with the skipper that I flew with most of the time, Alan Gowarth [?] of Monaco, Monaco, he was a night pilot, fighter pilot in 23 Squadron in - during the Battle of Britain, and this, this was illustrated with the seventieth anniversary of the Battle being commended.
NM: So you’re still in touch with him? Are you in touch with him now?
BH: No, no, not in the last – I think he might have pegged out since, but yes, I think it was quite late when I still, still in touch with him, March.
NM: So you were in touch by letter. Did you ever meet him again after the war?
BH: No, no, no, of course, he was New Zealand, he went to settle in his home in New Zealand. [Pause, sound of turning pages] Spires of Lincoln coming out of the mist as we got closer to home, a wonderful sight. As a matter of fact, we did have a situation where we were followed in to our own base, and we warned – we’d been warned about this, and anyhow, it was the last minute, really, before he was gonna fire at us, and we noticed that he was almost nose nose to tail with us, and so I told the skipper, you know, ‘We, we, we’re being followed, turn, turn starboard,’ you know, and he says ‘Okay, yes, fair enough,’ and we shook him off, but he got to within, oh, within a few hundred yards, I suppose, of shooting us down, and we got back home.
NM: So, you had a clear sight of this?
BH: Oh, yes, it was a, it was a Heinkel.
NM: And at this point, you were coming into which airfield?
BH: Hmm, not sure.
NM: Was that Wickenby or somewhere in Lincolnshire?
BH: Yes, somewhere, somewhere in Lincolnshire, but I can’t remember which. I should ought to remember because we were near, near to being shot down!
NM: Was that the closest you’ve, you came?
BH: I think so, to our demise, yes. [Pause] We’d been told about this: ‘Be careful, the blighter’s follow, following you in,’ and he almost on our nose, on our tail, you know, with his nose. [Pause] And then the skipper says, ‘Glad you kept your bloody eyes open, Bob!’ [laughs]
[recording is stopped and restarted]
BH: On the way back from the major target, we’d sort of go to various aerodromes, and the skipper’d ask me to go into the front turret so that we could go around the, the dispersal points shooting up all and setting fire to a lot of aircraft. We did this on quite a few occasions.
[recording is stopped and restarted]
BH: I was just wondering where to start, what, what was I talking about, now?
NM: You were talking about the geodetic construction.
BH: Oh, yes, yes, I was thankful and praised God for Barnes Wallis because of his aircraft design. We were over Benghazi, and we had a, a enormous hole inside of the fuselage (about six foot diameter), and the fact that it was geodetic construction of air, the pilot still flew the aircraft quite smoothly, and then we landed in the desert and checked up on what was what, and we took off again! And that was with a six foot diameter hole in the side of the, the fuselage, and of course, as I say, I thank God for Barnes Wallis and the fact that the geodetic construction was so, so wonderful.
NM: And the damage was caused by en –
BH: By flak, but that was bloody uncomfortable to sleep and we – ‘course, when we were in the desert, we, when we went up from Cairo up to the advanced base, we’d have to sleep in the aircraft, but the geodetic construction was as comfortable to sleep on! [laughs] You know, you’d have load of flying kit all on your hip, you know, to stop you from being scarred [?] ‘cause it was in – we slept in the co – oh, if we, if you laid out, you slept outside the aircraft in the desert, in, in the, oh dear, well, if, if you slept outside in the desert, on where there were lots of dried-up salt lakes, but you could have slept on there, and that was – but there were a lot of darn [unclear] about, and they were, actually, they sounded worse than they were, so it was a question sleeping inside the aircraft, but then, of course, you’ve got the geodetic construction, you know, made it uncomfortable, but having a lot of Irvine jackets and trousers, of course, to pad the sides.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Bob Hughes
Creator
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Nigel Moore
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-13
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHughesWR150713
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:58:38 audio recording
Contributor
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Beth Ellin
Sally Coulter
Carolyn Emery
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Bob Hughes joined the RAF as war became likely to avoid repeating his father's First World War experience in the trenches and transferred to the RAF Volunteer Reserve when war was declared. He trained on Ansons and then flew in twin-engine Blenheims in the Battle of Britain as part of 23 Squadron. They carried out night defence patrols from the south coast up the Thames Estuary.
Bob volunteered for Bomber Command which had lost a lot of crews. After one air test for Number 9 Bomber Squadron, he went to 149 Squadron at RAF Mildenhall and flew in Wellingtons. He describes the difficulty of targeting well-defended Essen and bombing cruisers in coastal areas, such as Wilhelmshaven.
Bob then transferred to 70 Squadron in RAF Kabrit, Egypt and the Middle East. Water rationing was an issue. They would carry out raids on transport and railway sidings in response to Field Marshal Erich Rommel bringing German forces into the desert via Benghazi.
Bob had instructor stints at the Operational Training Unit at RAF Pershore and Advanced Flying Unit. He went on operational liaison duties to 950 Squadron. Other aircraft in which Bob flew included: Battle, Defiant, Lancasters, Lysanders and Bothas. Bob undertook 73 operations and was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross on 12th March 1943.
He describes the evolution in air gunnery during the war. He also praises Barnes Wallis’s geodetic construction.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Suffolk
England--Thames River
North Africa
Egypt
Egypt--Kibrit
Libya
Libya--Banghāzī
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Essen
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1943
1943-03-12
1944
1945
149 Squadron
23 Squadron
49 Squadron
50 Squadron
70 Squadron
9 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
Battle
Blenheim
Botha
Defiant
Distinguished Flying Cross
Lancaster
Lysander
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
promotion
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Pershore
RAF Skellingthorpe
training
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1192/11765/PWestonJ1703.2.jpg
2faeb0311e15f568727cc9eb29f838bc
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1192/11765/AWestonJ171130.1.mp3
ca67913cb7dd29e3f9fe480f551f519c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Weston, Jim
James Weston
J Weston
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Jim Weston (b. 1922, 1539596 Royal Air Force) an identity card and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 23 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by James Weston and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Weston, J
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
SP: This is Susanne Pescott and I am interviewing James ‘Jim’ Weston, a pilot with 23 Squadron today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We’re at Jim’s home and it is the 30th of November 2017. Also present at the interview is Jim’s son, Steve. So, first of all, thank you, Jim, for agreeing to talk to me today. So first of all, do you want to tell me a little bit about your life before you joined the RAF?
JW: Well, I worked in a paper factory and when the war started I was transferred to the engineering department and by 1940 and ’41 I was on munitions, on a milling machine, making aircraft parts. So when one of my friends had joined up earlier than me was killed in Norway and my other friend was waiting to be called up, so I went to Wigan to join up. They told me that the job I was in, my boss would get me off the list in reserved occupation but the interviewer said, there’s just one exception, if you volunteer for aircrew, and passed the interview and the medical, it takes preference, so that’s what I did, and that’s how I got in the Air Force.
SP: And what was it that you particularly wanted to join the Air Force for?
JW: I was interested in radio. I wanted to become a radio mechanic but when they did call me up some months later, it was to Blackpool to be an air gunner wireless operator. But while I was there in three months in Blackpool, an officer came round and said they were short of pilots and navigators, if anybody wanted to remuster, now was the time, so I remustered and got on a pilot’s course.
SP: So, what was life like at Blackpool at that time?
JW: Well, it was just a fortnight before the Americans came in the war in 1941 and there must have been a thousand men there, learning to be wireless operators, so, I joined this group that went to ACRC in London near Lord’s Cricket Ground in a group, of some flats. From there we were posted to St Andrews in Scotland to join ITW, Initial Training Wing on a pilot’s course. From there three or four months later, after ground subjects, we went to Perth in Scotland on Tiger Moths to learn to fly. So we weren’t told how we’d got on but I’ve been posted from there to Manchester, Heaton Park where people weren’t always easy. We were going to go either South Africa, America or Canada, that’s the three places that pilots were trained and everybody wanted America because we knew how good it was. But late in Autumn of ’42 we got a train to Glasgow and finished up on the Queen Mary which docked in Canada, sorry, docked in Boston, America and we got a train from there to Canada. But the Queen Mary, some weeks before, had collided with a cruiser and sank it and it had, its bowels were crippled, but they hadn’t got time to repair the ship, they filled it with concrete. So I went to America while it was like that some months later before they repaired it properly. So from, the train journey to Canada to a place called Moncton, we went to a Assiniboia to an airfield, it was a three day train journey to get to the middle of Canada and that, from there on we learned to fly Tiger Moths with a covered cockpit because it was very bad weather in Canada, the winter of Canada, I went past the part of the early flying, posted again to North Canada, to North Battleford to fly Oxfords, that meant we were going in to Bomber Command. So by May 1943, we finished the course and we all got wings, posted back down to Moncton again, ready to go for a ship, from there we moved to Halifax, in Nova Scotia, and we caught a ship back to UK, docking in Liverpool in 1943, June I think it was. And from there we went on further training to Scotland on Beaufighters eventually being swapped over to Mosquitoes which got me to Little Snoring in Norfolk where eventually I did a tour.
SP: So, before we talk about your tour, do you want to tell me a little bit about what life was like while you were training, what would a typical day be like while you were doing your training in Canada?
JW: Well, the first part of the training that we did in Perth on Tiger Moths, I think there were thirty of us, and we all have to do so many hours with an instructor, and the instructor threw the aircraft about a bit, mild aerobatics and two of the crew were constantly airsick and they were taken off the course to either be a navigator or a bomb aimer. It seems that they don’t mind you being sick in the back of the aircraft but not if you’re sitting- if you’re flying in it, so we lost two there and gradually the twenty eight of us moved to Canada and some more fell out on the trip. So we finished up eventually getting to Battleford with some more that joined us about thirty odd people that I’ve shown you on that photograph where we got wings.
SP: So, when you were in Canada itself, what was the airbase like where you were, where were you billeted?
JW: The airfield in Assiniboia was a grass airfield so we, it was all snow at the time we were flying on it.
SP: Was that hard to [unclear]?
JW: Well, if you can land an airplane on snow, you can land it anywhere because you have now perception of depth when you’re flying over a white blanket, like I say, some failed by the wayside by doing this.
SP: And you flew quite few different planes there, you said, the Tiger Moths started off and?
JW: Tiger Moth, from Tiger Moth to Oxfords.
SP: Yeah.
JW: And then we got back to UK, more Oxford training and eventually on to Blenheims and Blenheims, from Blenheims you went to Beaufighters and I was on Beaufighters when D-Day was announced. So we were taken off Beaufighters almost overnight and said, you going to go on Mosquitos now not Beaufighters, so, we got two hours dual on a Mosquito and then he said, off you go and that was the amount of training we got on a Mosquito, two hours.
SP: And was it quite a lot different from the?
JW: It was a faster aircraft altogether but a Mosquito.
SP: Yeah. So, which was your preferred plane of those, which did you enjoy flying?
JW: The Mosquito I think, that was, once you got over the odd things about it like slight swing on, take off it was a very nice aircraft that, never had any trouble with it.
SP: Yeah, so, you then got posted to 23 Squadron
JW: 23 Squadron, yeah
SP: At Little Snoring
JW: To do intruder work.
SP: Do you want to tell me a little about what that was, intruder work?
JW: My first trip was to Zuider Zee in Holland, find out the coastline, just a sort of break-in trip and then the next one after that was to Denmark and gradually we went into further ones into Germany with the exception of we did, I did three to Norway and all the rest were Germany.
SP: And what would a typical trip be, what would the role be for you?
JW: Well, we were briefed at two o’clock in the afternoon, told where we were going to go, if there were say thirty of us about to go out that night we went off at different times. It might be from two o’clock after briefing you could be going out as soon as it got dark somebody would be taking off. And then all those wait till four o’clock in the morning to do their take-off, so there was always a constant stream of people going back and to from Snoring.There were two squadrons on the station, 23 and 515.
SP: I’ll just let the clock chiming there [clock chimes] [laughs], yeah, so we got 23 and 515, so, obviously you’d take-off, what would your, what would you be doing in your role on a trip then, so you’d take off and say a typical trip to Germany what would that be?
JW: Well, we took off and I was low level, we never went above about two or three thousand feet down to four hundred feet except on a couple of special occasions when all the squadron were told to all go off at the same time and bomb a certain city to draw the night fighters from one part of Germany to give the heavy boys less trouble. Two of the stations to bomb were Bonn, BONN, we all went to Bonn one night and another night we all went to Wurzburg and we had to bomb from about fifteen thousand feet. And it was a clear night and as I went over the city I could see the trams running, you know when a tram goes over the points you see flashes, electricity, I could see all the trams are running, all the way through the raid,
SP: Did you meet much opposition on the trip?
JW: Never saw any German night fighters but a certain amount of flak, especially over a large city, if you flew over a large city, they’d poop off with the flak but when we went to attack an airfield, the airfield would never fire at you until you’d open the fire first. I suppose they thought they were cloaked in darkness and it was always blacked out the airfield, so, we’d find it, attack it and then the flak would started after we’d done the attack.
SP: Yeah. Are there any particular operations that stand out in your mind for any particular events or anything?
JW: Well, I went to a place called Kitzingen two or three times and that’s just north of Munich I think it is, and just south of the airfield there was a hill with three red lights on it for the German airmen, so if we got a bit misty all we had to do is find these three red lights and fly due North for two minutes and we were over the airfield. I actually attacked Kitzingen on Christmas eve, that was my trip to Kitzingen, and it was lit up and so we attacked it with cannon fire that particular night, the flak started but I’d had gone then.
SP: Particularly how many planes would there be on those sort of operations?
JW: Well, if we had news that one particular station was now harbouring night fighters the attack would be, there’d be about, three of us would be attacking the airfield in rotation, somebody might do it from seven till eight, I might do eight till nine, and somebody would do nine till ten, keep their night fighters on the floor.
SP: So, how do you feel about those operations, cause obviously it was an operation that was really helping the heavy bombers, wasn’t it to keep them out of the air?
JW: Yeah, that was the idea, intruders was designed for that reason so, once you’d done the trip over the airfield, you’d done your hour, if you have any bombs left or cannon fire left you’d attack a train or anything that moved over Germany at night so it was trains, we used to go after the engine.
SP: Was that quite often, you had some time to do that or ammunitions left or
JW: Yes, several, I can’t say the exact number, but it was occasionally we’d have to, have time to do that, yes
SP: Anything else about that time in 23 Squadron that stands out or?
JW: One particular night, I don’t know if it was January or February, I, my turn to go, say about eight o’clock at night, I can’t remember exactly but it was snowing very hard and there was snow already about an inch all over the airfield. So I could taxi round by seeing the blue lights through the snow till I got to take-off point and it was still snowing very hard and I couldn’t see the lights on the runway to guide me for a take-off only the first two or three lights. I sat there with the engine going for a minute or two and then a voice came out of the dark and said, aircraft at the end of the runway, take-off at your own discretion, that means they put it in your call so I figured it and then I thought, well, if I can see two or three lights now from here, as I progressed forward I’ll see the next few and the next few. So I decided to take off and I got off alright but as soon as we were airborne in the snow, I went on to instruments, turned round, this was going west, so I turned round to go east, so, I was over the North Sea when suddenly all the instruments stopped, they were locked, so I didn’t know, what height I was doing, what speed I was doing, so I was, it was still in a snow cloud and I was feeling, flying the aircraft by feel not by incident instrument and it suddenly started to stall, and my navigator shouted at the same time as I put the stick forward and I got out of the storm I thought, I climbed slowly, I wanted to get above the cloud and then drop down when I got through the side.Eventually I got over the cloud and I looked round and the instruments were still locked so I remember being shown a year ago about a direction finder in the tail here, hanging on the loop, on the barrel about this big and it was a direction finder, so, I looked around for the instrument was on the right hand side and by this time I was above the cloud and I looked round and found the North Star and set this gyro to zero for North and then I put a mayday call out. I got a call from, I forget the name of the place but it was Woodbridge in, where is it, near Ipswich I think it is, and it was an emergency airfield and they talked me down, I wanted to know what height I was at and eventually they talked me down and I landed. When I landed the instruments were still stuck and my navigator asked one of the instrument mechanics to come and have a look at it to confirm that I’d landed with no instruments that I’d had the trouble. So we, they put us up for the night and by this time the next morning it had thawed so I went back to Little Snoring then.
SP: So, you obviously you had a night at a different base that time?
JW: What?
SP: You had a night at a different base that time, but you were based at Little Snoring, do you want to tell me a little bit about the airfield and the base there?
JW: That was a couple of miles outside a little town called Fakenham and we got out once or twice into the town but not very often and about every seven weeks we got a leave which extended, you know, over the twenty seven weeks I was based there so I got a few trips home. The CO was a Wing Commander Murphy and he was a real toff, very, one of the old school. But I know on the airfield there used to be a Tiger, no, a Tiger Moth, a Magister aircraft, single engine and an Oxford and all the pilots were supposed to use these two aircraft occasionally, to get keep the hand in and I went to the CO Murphy and I said, I’ve got a weekend off now, can I borrow the Oxford or the Magister? And he said, take the Oxford, and I took it and flew it to the nearest airfield to Warrington, about two miles south of here and I stopped over the weekend and then flew it back. So next time I was off, a few months later, I went to him again and I said, can I borrow the Oxford? And he said, yes, but I want you to take my navigator with you this time, he was a flight lieutenant and he was from Liverpool but we couldn’t land at Liverpool, so we landed at a little airfield opposite Liverpool, on the other side of the Mersey called Hooton Park, so I dropped him off and another person while they went on leave and I came to Stretton and then on the Sunday morning I went back to Hooton Park, picked the two of them, pair of them up and flew them back to Little Snoring. That’s how good the CO was.
SP: Yeah.
JW: Yeah.
SP: The benefits of being a pilot, I’ve not heard that before. Yeah.
JW: Yeah, well, I went to Stretton four times, twice in an Oxford, once in a Magister and another time I was on a seven day leave when the rest of my friends in the squadron we have helped to do an air test and I said to one of them, while you’re doing an air test, can you drop me off at Stretton in Warrington. I took him to Warrington in about twenty minutes and he dropped me off and I came home and when I went back on the train it took me about twelve hours.
SP: Definitely a different journey
JW: Yeah.
SP: So, you talked about your crew there, do you want to talk about your crew, who was in your crew?
JW: My crew?
SP: Yeah, your crew.
JW: It was Don Francis, he was, at the time served instrument mechanic who transferred to aircrew and became a navigator, he was very, very good. Oddly enough, we only lost, was it, eighteen months ago he died. We were due to go and meet him and his sons and they rang us up and said Don had died overnight. So we kept in touch over the years, and met once or twice on reunions but was about to see him for the last time and we were too late, he’d died.
SP: It’s good you kept in touch all those years to catch up.
JW: Oh yeah, we did, yeah.
SP: So, there were two crew on a Mosquito?
JW: Two, yeah.
SP: Yeah. So, and how did you crew up, how did you all get together?
JW: We crewed up when we were on Beaufighters in Scotland, learned to fly a Beaufighter and as soon as you’re competent in it, we all got in one big room and there were say ten pilots and ten navigators and they just said pair up. So he came to me and said, have you crewed up yet? So, I said, no, he said, oh well, I’ll join you then and that’s how we met.
SP: And it worked perfectly ‘cause you really got on, you kept in touch all these years. Yeah.
JW: Yes, we did. [pause] One particular night, I wasn’t available for some reason and my navigator was spare and the CO Wing Commander Murphy went to him and said, would you like to do a trip with me? And Don said, no, he said, why is that? He said, well, I know Weston’s a damn good pilot, but I don’t know what you’re like. So, he wouldn’t go with him. But sometime later, Murphy did the same thing, to a flight sergeant Dougy Darbon and they got shot down. That was the end of Murphy. But there’s been a lot of talk about this Dresden being a cruel raid but actually it was my last raid and I had to go to an airfield in the Ruhr which was supposed to be a night fighter base which is on the way to Dresden but, there was, nothing happened, there was no activity at all and but Dresden was bombed twice I think, once by us and once by the Americans and there’s been a lot of talk about it being cruel, but it was no more cruel than these V-2s that were dropped on London and other places, that was just as bad as attacking, it was, anybody, didn’t it, the V-2?
SP: So the, you were due to go to an airfield that was outside Dresden to draw the night fighters.
JW: To draw the night fighters, or stop the night fighters getting off, yeah.
SP: Yeah.
JW: But, like I say, it didn’t mean a thing towards Dresden and it was the same as Cologne or any other German city, yeah.
SP: Yeah.
JW: Yeah, I remember one particular night, we’d been to an airfield and there was no activity and I said to the navigator, find me a town on the way back, city or a town, and he, he pointed he said 5 minutes will be so and so, and we, I forget the name of the town or the city now, so I dropped a bomb on that and then came back to base. The next night we were getting briefed for another raid, another trip and they announced that this particular city that we dropped one bomb on was due for a four hundred Halifax and Lancaster raid [laughs] so the people who had the first night they think, oh, that bomb, that one bomb, it will be all over in a minute, but four hundred more kept coming, I can’t remember the name of the city now.
SP: You said on one trip you actually escorted four hundred Halifaxes.
JW: Yes.
SP: Can you tell me about that trip?
JW: Five of us were briefed one afternoon to say you’re going to Norway tomorrow but today fly to Scotland , Dallachy, and wait there overnight. And if the raid is still on the next morning, there’s four hundred Halifaxes going to Bergen which is in north Norway after the U-boat pens. So we were told what time they were taking off and we took off an hour later because we were a hundred mile an hour faster and we caught them up, we could find, we were in rain or snow or cloud most of the way but my navigator had them on the radar we knew exactly where they were all the aircraft and as we approached Norway by a miracle about fifty miles away from Norway, the cloud disappeared and it was a perfect day. I was about fifteen thousand feet and I climbed higher because the bombers were gonna go in about fifteen and we could see little ships coming out of the harbour all going out to sea, they all knew what was coming up. Slowly these Halifaxes came over and hit these U-boat pens and in about five or ten minutes, there was nothing but grey smoke coming from the coastline and we’ve circled round and round waiting to see if any German fighters came up but there was no activity like that and eventually the four hundred has finished and we waited till they’d all dropped the bombs and still turned round. We had to escort them to, I think it was two degrees east or something like that, something beyond the range of their fighters and once we let them go, we catching them up again so and circled around to waste time and gradually as they all disappeared back to UK, we went back to Scotland to refuel at Little Snoring. We got back to Little Snoring and put the radio on at night and they said a force of, I don’t think they mentioned Halifaxes, a force of bombers attacked Bergen in Norway today and one aircraft was lost but it wasn’t lost over the target what, we found out later on its way back to UK it flew into a hill and so, it was a completely well worked out trip and nobody hurt at all. [pause] On one particular trip on the way to Holland, about fifteen hundred feet, two thousand feet, I could see V-1s coming the other way and I described it to the debriefing officer later and he said, oh, we know all about them, we are dealing with them. So I forgot that until some weeks or days, I’m not sure of the time, I was approaching Holland and I saw a light on the ground suddenly start to lift off and I thought it was a fighter or another, one of their aircraft about to take off and I followed it and watched it climb and I climbed so far after it and it was a lot faster than me and the last time I saw it, it looked like a star, the light had gone. I reported this to the debriefing officer and he said, ‘oh, we know all about them, you’ll be hearing about it’, so a fortnight later we found out that it was a V-2, I’d seen one take off but as I passed over the spot I told my navigator to plot the position so they knew where it was from but I do believe later they were moving these V-2 sites constantly to baffle the people who were seeing them take off. My last raid was on the night of Dresden. I had to go to an airfield in the Ruhr, it was supposed to be a night fighter base but it was complete darkness I went round and round and found nothing at all and came back to base, having not fired a shot because couldn’t see anything but Dresden was a target that was attacked by the RAF and the American Air Force in over two days so that was the end of my tour. I was, after some leave I was posted back to Scotland to a place called Charterhall where they were training other night fighters base to join the squadrons doing the work, I was on this base when V E Day, so I was posted to another airfield in Lincoln where I met another pilot from 23 Squadron and we were there two or three weeks, and there was a notice came on the notice board, they wanted pilots to train on single engine aircraft Typhoons, to go to the Far East, so I said to this Benny who was, I met there, do you fancy that? So he said, yeah, so we both put our names down this to go and train on single seat fighters. A fortnight later the postings came through, he was posted on Tiger Moths and I was posted on Dakotas which I did for the next three years. So, I joined a squadron at Manston, Kent, going back and to, to Germany and places like Gibraltar until ’47 when I was posted to Burton Wood in Lancashire waiting a posting overseas. Eventually the posting came in, it was Egypt and I was posted to Fayid on the canal zone and there’s, the chief officer of the canal zone, I met him and he saw my logbook and he said, oh, Mosquitoes, he said, I’ll put you on Mosquitoes. After all this training on Dakotas I was now going back on Mosquitoes and it was a PRU unit at Fayid. But they’d formed, photographed everything for five hundred miles in every direction so there was nothing to do until one day the CO came in the crew room and he said, can anybody fly an Anson? Well, I said, I can, I’d had a couple of hours, so he said, right, get yourself on a Dakota to Iraq [clock chimes]
SP: Just wait for the clocks to chime [laughs]
JW: [laughs] When you get to Iraq, at Habbaniyah, you wait there for a York to take you to India, I want you to bring an Anson back because the British were getting out of India at this time, if you remember the date, and so I flew this Anson back the long route all the way back to Egypt, got it back to Fayid and another, a week went by and he said there’s another aircraft in India, who wants to bring it back? Who wants to go? So two of us put our hands up and there was two, two were waiting there, two more Ansons so we did the same trip Habbaniyah. Wait for a York and when the York was approaching Habbaniyah the one, I was a passenger in this York and another York came alongside flying in formation and ahead was only about, fifteen, twenty miles away from Karachi when this other York, this suddenly decided to lift off and come over the top of those, and he came over the top of us and knocked the tail off. The York has three fins at the back and it knocked three foot off, every fin. What the pilot managed to get it down and they were both charged then with dangerous flying but we were very, very lucky that day we didn’t knock it all off. From there they realised there was no work for this PRU squadron (Photographic Reconnaissance Unit) and I was posted to a Dakota squadron at Kabrit, so that was a more interesting place and there lots of trips that we did to, we went to Greece, Sudan, Eritrea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and India and in 1948, May 1948, how many? Six of us were briefed to go to Israel to bring out the air force, the British were getting out of Israel at this time, three of these aircraft went the first day and I was on the second wave and when we went down to flights the next day the CO was waiting for us, he said, there’s been some trouble at Ramat David, this airfield, the Egyptian Spitfires have come over, five of them and attacked all these Dakotas. One was blown up and burned out, one was damaged and they also attacked the control tower, so he said, you three are going but you’ve a Tempest escort to get you there. So we went off with these Tempest, we got to Ramat David and we evacuated personnel and equipment from there to Cyprus but as we went back, as we went to Cyprus at night time the next day we were in a bar, somebody brought a newspaper in and the headlines were RAF shoot down five Egyptian Spitfires. These Spitfires, they’d come back again and these two Tempests were waiting for them and they shot the five down, so that was the end of that. Actually this, the one that was damaged, was still working on the airfield and I waited with him and eventually he said, the pilot came to me and he said, I’m gonna take off and if it’s alright I’ll come over and give you a waggle and he said, you can take off then. He said, if it’s dangerous, I’ll come and land and I’ll come home with you. Anyway, he took off and he came back apparently alright, did this and then I took off and I flew the last aeroplane out of Israel back to Egypt.
SP: So Jim, do you want to talk a little bit about your route to India when you were doing the transport?
JW: Yeah, the CO of the Dakota squadron said that anybody can fly an Anson, they wanted to bring aircraft from India and I volunteered because I’d flown Ansons and he said, pick yourself a navigator, get a lift to Habbaniyah in Iraq and wait there for a York. This York will take you to Karachi, where there is an Anson waiting to be brought back. Well, an Anson can’t fly very far so I had to come back the long route, which is underneath Iran, what was it? Sharjah, Duwarni, and then we, to Bahrain we stopped the night in Bahrain and then the next day take off from Bahrain and go to Shaibah in Iraq, from Shaibah back to Habbaniyah, stop the night. The next day we took off and went to an airfield in the middle of the desert called LGH 3, Landing Ground number 3, which is halfway between Iraq and Israel, eventually we stopped at Israel, I can’t remember the name of the airfield, we stopped the night there and this particular night there was a fence all around the airfield because of wild dogs and on the second trip, one trip where just two of us went there was, we landed .The night before we left Karachi on the second trip this other pilot and myself went out into the town and had a few drinks and by we didn’t think we something we shouldn’t do, we had something to eat, the next day we both had the runs, so, all the way back we stuck with, having to get out until eventually we got to Israel. I mean, I was in one Nissen hut with my navigator and he, Peter was in another one next door and outside there was a toilet that had been built in between the walls, it was a concrete circle with a wooden seat on top with six partitions for the toilet and in the night, Peter was, he was still in trouble with his stomach, he got up with two lots of paper, one lit and the other one for the obvious reason and he lifted the lid off this toilet he was going to use and threw this lighted one down and it blew up and it woke us up the bang [laughs] and he come and stood in the doorway, we put the light on and he said, just look at me, and he was covered from head to foot in excretum from airmen long since gone and he said, I had to show you because you wouldn’t believed it tomorrow. So he went and had a shower, but, so we didn’t sleep again that night.
SP: Yeah. On one of the trips as well you said that you stopped at a place called Habbaniyah and there was, you say there was a smuggler there
JW: Oh, the smuggler
SP: Yeah
JW: We passed all these things on to him and made a profit on that and then brought some of the cigarettes back to Egypt to a shopkeeper on the base and made a profit on that one as well. Yeah.
SP: Helped increase the salary a little bit [laughs].
JW: Actually, the one, the shopkeeper, he was caught selling these cigarettes and they hadn’t got a stamp on so they put him in jail for a few weeks. A Sudanese lawyer dressed in a smart suit came looking for me and he said, Weston? I said, yes. He said, did you sell some cigarettes to Mr so and so, I said, no, it wasn’t me, he said, oh, he told me it was you but he said, I realised you wouldn’t admit it but he said, in future if you get anymore cigarettes, he said, here’s my card, and this was his lawyer [laughs].
SP: [unclear] [laughs]
JW: Another trip we did from Kabrit, there was some trouble in Eritrea so I can’t, I think it was either three or four aircraft, took twenty soldiers each, to quell this little riot, Eritrea, Asmara, the capital of Eritrea, and that was another trip we did, and when we landed there, I was told to go to a certain hut and it was just going dusk when I got to this hut and I put me tackle on the bed and there was no light on and suddenly the window was open and something flew in and clanged into this light and it fell on the floor and the regulars that lived in this hut, they all covered themselves with a blanket or a sheet and I did the same, I said, are they dangerous? They said, no, but aren’t they bloody awful. And it was, it turned out to be a dung beetle and it had flown it and hit the light and it fell on the floor and it looked like a little tortoise on the floor and then suddenly the wings sort of came out of the shell and it went up like a helicopter and out again through the window so I thought it was something dangerous but it wasn’t [laughs].
SP: And very unusual to see.
JW: Yeah.
SP: Yeah. So Jim, you also mentioned you were heavily involved with the Berlin airlift, so do you want to talk a little bit about that?
JW: I will do, yeah. Now, while I was serving in Egypt, a CO came into the crew room one day and said he wanted crews that were willing to go to Germany as the Berlin airlift had started. The airlift had started in June, and in August they wanted more people so I volunteered to go, my crew went with me, and we got a lift to UK, Oakington in Cambridgeshire and the very next day off to Fassberg in Germany and started the airlift from Fassberg. So we go from Fassberg to Gatow in Berlin and back again in two trips a day until the Americans joined in the lift and they wanted an airfield so we were all taken away from Fassberg and went to Lubeck so that the Americans could have Fassberg only for themselves. So we started the airlift again from Lubeck and two trips a day and then you’d finished and the idea was, when we got a weekend off, when you went back to the base, your first trip would be two o’clock in the afternoon, go to Gatow, come back, reload, go back again to Gatow and then back home and then the next day you started at one o’clock and the next day after that you started at twelve o’clock and slowly went back in time. The idea was that everybody would share the night flying that was going on so you did this for about seven or eight weeks and then another weekend off. So when you’ve been on this about three or four months, when you’re having a meal, you didn’t know whether it was breakfast, dinner or supper because you’ve lost track of the day, the time and eventually I finished up doing over two hundred, around about two hundred and twenty trips to Gatow and we landed at Gatow, unloaded and then we either bring back old people or children to Lubeck to be reallocated so there was less mouths to feed in Gatow itself. So the Americans, like I said, they joined, the British went to Gatow and the others went to Tempelhof or Tegel, I’m not sure of the right one, the Americans, and this went on till the following, I think it was the following June when the airlift finished but we carried on doing it even though it was officially finished. The Russians had lifted the barriers on these places but they’d stopped transport coming in and trains so in the fact that the airlift was over but I remember doing two trips to Warsaw after the airlift was over. And I’ve been to a lot of places in Europe like Berlin, Paris, Brussels, Vienna and some places in the Middle East like Gibraltar, Malta and wherever you landed there at one of these places, a well-dressed man or woman would meet you and say, welcome to and take you to immigration but the difference was when we landed at Warsaw, I opened the door of a Dakota and standing underneath it were two rough looking soldiers, Russians with a Tommy gun and they pointed the Tommy gun at you and motioned it down like get off and that was the difference in [laughs] get in the reception, so I only managed to do that twice, yeah, to Warsaw.
SP: You said you did a trip to Warsaw with some diplomats as well you took to Warsaw?
JW: With what?
SP: Some people to negotiate treaties.
JW: Oh yes, I think it was five MPs were going to negotiate some sort of pork or bacon, deal with the Poles, I can’t remember what the other people were they were took in [pause] no, I can’t remember what they were, who they were but I only did two trips to Warsaw from what was the main airfield in UK at the time before Heathrow, I can’t even remember the name of that one now, it’ll be in that logbook.
SP: We’ll copy your logbook, so it’s with the recording, so.
JW: Pardon?
SP: We’ll copy the logbook, so it’s with the recording, so, yeah.
JW: Yes, ok.
SP: So, obviously you completed your time with the RAF.
JW: Yes, I came back to Oakington to do trips to Gibraltar and odd trips around Europe. When it was my time to be finished, the CO sent for me near the end of my tour and said, you’re wanted in air ministry, go to, go get a train voucher and you go to Air Ministry to meet and eventually either a wing commander or squadron leader and I went to Air Ministry on the train and then the Tube and I met this man and he said, I had to bring me logbook, and he opened me logbook and said, oh yes, he said we’ve got a record of this, he said you’ve got a well, a very nice setup, you’ve been a good servant to the RAF, is there something we can do for you? He said, like, where would you like to be posted to for your last few couple of months? So, I said, the nearest airfield to Warrington, the nearest flying unit to Warrington, oh, he said, right. I came back to Oakington, when me posting came through, it was Cranwell, now, Cranwell is the worst place in the world to spend your last days because if it moves in Cranwell you salute it, and if it doesn’t move you paint it white and I only found out, oh, years after, that the nearest airfield to Cranwell is Waddington and this chap in the Air Ministry had got it wrong but I didn’t realise it was in the time so I spent me last time in Cranwell and then I came out in 1950.
SP: And what did you do then after?
JW: Oh, I went back to the same firm I’d worked at. When, you, did I tell you about joining the Air Force, oh, I got, when was it? I went to Wigan, I’ve told you about going to Wigan and the boss got to know about it and said, you’ll not get your allowance, have I mentioned the allowance?
SP: No.
JW: No? Oh, when I went to join up at Wigan, and then they said you could only join up as aircrew.
SP: Yeah.
JW: So, my boss got to found out and he said, I’ll get you off, you know, so I didn’t say anything so a couple of months later my posting came through and I had to go to Padgate and he came to me and he said, I tried to get you off and he said, they tell me you joined flying unit so, I said, yes, he said, you’re not getting your allowance, you know. Apparently if a married man from this firm got called up, he paid his wife so much and if you was single, he paid your mother so much and he said you’ll not get your allowance, so, I said, oh, I managed to say that I’m not bothered about the allowance, I said, I’m going into a war and I thought, well, and twelve months later, while I was in Canada, I got a letter from me mother to say that the manager or the director of this firm had sent for her and said that where’s your son, and she said, he’s in Canada learning to fly, he said, oh, he said, I’ll start paying you this allowance. But I never told me mother about this allowance but she was due it so he started paying it, and he said to her, have you got a job or your husband got a job and she said, no, I have not, me husband’s in a job, he said, well, I’ve got a job for women in munitions part of this factory but would you like a job? So, he gave her a job and he said to her, your husband, tell your husband to come and see me and he gave him a job. And so, they both worked right through to the end of the war. And eventually when my time was over in 1950, I met a girl from the firm that I was going to marry and he sent for me the boss again and he said I believe you are going to marry, so I said, yes, he said, has the firm bought you anything? So I said, no, he said well, what would you like? And I said, I’d like a bedside cabinet in walnut, he said, go and buy one, or get one made, and give me the bill and I am the only man or woman in that factory that ever got a wedding present off the boss. It was on his conscience all that time.
SP: Yes, yeah. And what was the company called?
JW: Chadwick’s paper mill.
SP: Chadwick’s paper mill.
JW: It’s on the side of the river, across there but it’s gone now, it’s been flattened, it’s gone so
SP: It’s based in Warrington
JW: It’s based in Warrington, yes.
SP: Yeah.
JW: It’s quite a big firm, there’s about four hundred people working there.
SP: Yeah. So that was your wife then.
JW: That was the end of time, yes, when I got married, yeah.
SP: And did you stay at Chadwick’s for the rest of your…?
JW: I stayed there for a while. And then I wanted, when Steven came along, me first, and I wanted more money and I went to another engineering firm and went to several jobs like that until eventually I was working at one when the new boss at the Chadwick’s phoned the firm I was working at and said ask Jim to come and see me and he offered me another job, more than I was working, more money than I was working so I went back to Chadwick until it finished again. And then from then I finished up with a job at the college in Warrington as a technician which I served me time there till I was sixty five, that was, that’s thirty years ago I’ve been retired.
SP: You’re ninety-five now.
JW: Yeah.
SP: Ok.
JW: So, that’s the end of my story.
SP: There was a lot of really interesting, lots of different experiences there that you shared with us so on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre we would like to thank you for your time today, Jim.
JW: Right.
SP: So, thank you.
JW: Ok.
SP: Addition to interview with Jim, so, over to you, Jim.
JW: Twinwood’s an airfield, is a satellite of Cranfield, I was there in the June of ’44 and it was the airfield that Glenn Miller took off for his last flight to France and disappeared, Twinwoods.
SP: Yeah.
JW: I think his band was based in Bedford, Bedfordshire and he was on his way to fix up a date for his band to come and play in Europe, France or somewhere like that when he disappeared and they’ve never found any trace of him at all.
SP: And did you see him at all on the base?
JW: No, I was there some months before him,
SP: Right, yeah.
JW: People said, where did Glenn Miller fly from? And I think he came from a place called Firstford, American base and for some reason came to Twinwoods because that his band was based in Bedford itself and it made some sort of reckoning with him and then he took off in a Norseman, it’s a single engine aeroplane with just him and the pilot.
[pause]
SP: Ok, well, thank you very much for that, it’s one of those things we will never know until maybe they find the plane and it see whether or not
JW: Might be
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Jim Weston. One
Creator
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Susanne Pescott
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-11-30
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AWestonJ171130, PWestonJ1703
Format
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00:54:13 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Weston joined the Royal Air Force because he wanted to become a radio mechanic. While training at Blackpool as air gunner wireless operator, he remustered as a pilot. Remembers being posted to 23 Squadron at RAF Little Snoring, where he carried out intruder operations against enemy night fighters. He witnessed the take-off of a V-2 rocket. Jim remembers his last operation to Dresden, targeting an enemy airfield nearby. At the end of the war, he was posted to a Dakota squadron in Egypt. He then flew around two hundred and twenty trips during the Berlin airlift. He spent his last days with the RAF at Cranwell before coming out in 1950. On being demobbed, Jim went back to work at a paper factory.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Eunice Watson
Steph Jackson
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
Egypt
Germany
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Iraq--Ḥabbānīyah
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1943
1948
23 Squadron
aircrew
Beaufighter
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
C-47
Flying Training School
Initial Training Wing
Magister
Mosquito
Oxford
Pathfinders
pilot
RAF Cranwell
RAF Little Snoring
sanitation
Tiger Moth
training
V-2
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1202/11775/AWilliamsonKA180115.1.mp3
202e76c15c7618a10ffd32c7da2908e0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Williamson, Keith Alec
Sir Keith Alec Williamson
K A Williamson
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Keith Alec Williamson (1928 - 2018, 582252Royal Air Force).
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-01-15
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Williamson, KA
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is Monday the 15th of January 2018 and we’re in Burnham Market talking with Sir Keith Williamson. Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir Keith Williamson about his early days and his life as a result of being in the RAF. Sir Keith what are your earliest recollections of life?
KW: I suppose it’s living in Leytonstone in East London. I don’t remember a great deal about it. My, my father had had been in the Army during the war and had been badly injured twice. Badly injured twice, and was maimed and he was at the time, I remember, a junior civil servant. But he had, in fact, I subsequently discovered that he’d at the age of fourteen or fifteen he’d gone off on a ship from London docks as a cabin boy and gone out to South Africa and found he didn’t like being a cabin boy any more so he jumped ship and went to live with his step sister who was at that time living in, married and living in Johannesburg and they were very well off compared with the rest of the family. And he was back on leave in England when war, A, was imminent and then was declared and he and my uncle joined the Territorial Army and went, went off. My uncle was very badly injured as well. It’s actually quite, it is actually quite interesting of course. My uncle was injured by the same shell that maimed my father and killed a friend of theirs and when my father came out of convalescence, he went to see the parents of the friend of his and met my mother who was the daughter, and married her. So, our dynasty, what there was of it emerges from a shell hole in, in Belgium. And I remember, I remember singing, “When the Poppies Bloom Again,” and every November the 11th was a very melancholy experience in our household. And I have an older brother who is four years older than me and he was at that time sent away to, well, he wasn’t sent away actually he was a day boy but at Bancroft School which was a minor public school and I took an examination for a scholarship to Bancroft’s and became a boarder at Bancroft’s and my brother subsequently became a boarder. At that time my mother, I think they you can claim that they were the, not social climbers, I’d rather, and I’d like to put it rather nicely. Anyway, anxious to get away from East End of London. A whole host of people were in the East End of London and we moved out in to Essex and lived, lived at Ilford in Essex at a whole new building estate that people flooded to and thought we were one up on everybody else which we weren’t of course. And at that time my father was still a junior civil servant but my, my grandfather was a, an undertaker in Leytonstone and by our standards he was quite wealthy. I mean we, we had a car before anybody else had a car and I think it came from the profits of people dying around Leytonstone. And it was while I was at, a boarder at Bancroft’s that we saw the Battle of Britain overhead and one night we had a stick of bombs that dropped right across the school which I thought was great fun and I think we had the next day off which was very important. But my parents didn’t think that was great fun and so I was plucked out and sent to a Grammar School in Leicestershire at Market Harborough and it’s, I then joined the Air Training Corps because actually I couldn’t imagine anybody not wanting to be in the Air Force and not wanting to be a pilot in the Air Force. But of course, by the time I I joined the Air Training Corps the war was coming towards it’s end and training had stopped, virtually stopped and I discovered girls. I’d been at a boy’s boarding school and it was a mixed Grammar School and it was absolutely marvellous. They were delightful girls and I still get, keep in touch with a number of them. But I thought of nothing else there. I didn’t do any work at school so I wasn’t terribly well qualified for anything. So, I joined the Air Force initially at Halton and we went to, to Cranwell and at Cranwell we had a massive advantage of having that lovely building right in the middle of where we were training. And although during the war it had been just an ordinary Flying Training School at the end of the war the Flying Training School was closed and it was becoming a Cadet College again and they were looking around for people to populate, populate the, the College. So, I thought that was for me. I think that was pretty cocky of me because I was by no means top of the hamper. There were some much cleverer people than me but in the end six of us got scholarships. One went off to, to Cambridge and the five of us were Cadets at Cranwell in much the same way that had happened before the war. I mean, what’s the name? Whittle had been a Cadet and had gone to, to, had been a brilliant pilot and had gone to Cambridge and become a brilliant scientist. There were a number of others who had done exactly the same thing so nothing particularly remarkable about my, my progress. But I loved it at Cranwell. I got a lot from it because at that time when I left being an aircraft apprentice and became a Cadet, a Cadet with people who had been at normally Sixth Form College, Sixth Form at that stage in their school and I’d very quickly found that we were certainly on a par with them and I was, I was higher up the hamper at Cranwell as a Cadet than I was up the hamper as an apprentice. And of course, then I, we joined a squadron. I joined a Vampire squadron. Marvellous. Every day was Christmas Day. We went to Germany and of course the Korean War was, had broken out and we all volunteered for that and they took the Sabre people from Fighter Command and took the ground attack people, that’s F84s and Meteors by the time we got out there from Germany. From Germany. So, I joined an Australian squadron, 77 Squadron doing ground attack and that really was, it opened my eyes because the Meteor should never have been sold to the Australians. I mean it was, it was a disgrace. We knew that they were, it wasn’t up to, the Meteor was fine for 1945 but it was hopelessly outdated by the time I got to 77 Squadron in, well the early ‘50s. The Americans, and they’ve done it time and time again put so much money into solving the problems of supersonic flight they, they very quickly discovered that thin wings, swept wings were the only answer whereas you look at a Meteor it's got the thickest wings I’ve ever seen and the straightest wings I’ve ever seen. It was not about to solve the problems and its performance in Korea was really rather pathetic although it was flown with great elan by, by the Australians. The subsequent ground attack people from the RAF who went out to, they flew the F-84s and benefited from the, not swept wing but benefited from very thin wings. And so, when I came back from Korea I thought well that’s fine, I’ll now take over a flight on what squadron was begging to have me and discovered that nobody actually wanted me and I went off to be an ADC which is a fate worse than death to anybody who aspires to be a pilot. I, my boss was an irascible bugger but he liked, I’d only just got married and he liked Pat. He didn’t like me but he liked Pat which was fine. I do remember he was CinC Home Command and amongst the other many other things that Home Command looked after, all the odds and sods there, there was NAAFI and he was president of NAAFI. And I can remember I used to, when he was going off on a trip that I wasn’t involved in I’d stand at the door and snap to attention and shut the door and think good I’ve got rid of him for a couple of hours and I’d go and fly. They had a very nice Communications Flight at White Waltham where we were and when he was in a very bad mood and I could tell when he was in a very bad mood I used to shut the door very quickly and get him away as quickly as I could. And on one occasion he was in a terrible mood and was cursing everybody so I got him away and as he was driving away, they had Humbers in those days with a window between the driver and the back and I saw him move the window and he was, his mouth was going at the sergeant driver. When the sergeant got back, I said to him, ‘He was in a pretty bad mood. How did you cope?’ He said, ‘He was no problem. No problem.’ He said, ‘We were going across Lambeth Bridge and he said, “You bloody fool. You’re going across the wrong bridge. This is not where we should go.”’ And this driver ignored him completely and said, ‘No. We’re on the right way, sir.’ And of course, by that time they’d driven up outside NAAFI Headquarters and it was Imperial House and it had enormous letters, “Imperial House,” written right across it. And he looked, he got out, looked up at it and said, ‘Jewson, somebody’s moved the bloody place.’ [laughs] He was, I was, gave me a massive, when I had an ADC and I was getting cross, not that it happened very often of course and his face, his lips were turned down I used to say to him, ‘Don’t look at me like that Richard. I was an ADC to an even bigger shit than me.’ But anyway, I I went, for three, for three years I think I was an ADC and then I turned up at, in those days our postings were done by the Director General of postings 2, in a building in Holborn. And I arrived. Then this squadron leader said, ‘We want you to go and be a flight commander at —’ And I thought, good. Good. And it was some ground training place. I forget which. It was one of, one of the Kirton Lindsey or one of these places and so I said, ‘I’ll do any, I’ll even volunteer for CFS rather than than go on the ground. I must fly.’ And so I did. I went to CFS which I didn’t enjoy and then went in to the flying training more. I went, I was an examiner for a time and I couldn’t wait to get out of it. And now what do I, oh I’ve missed out a Hunter. Where did I go to Hunters? I forget now. Dear God.
Other 2: Would you like a cup of tea?
CB: We’ll just pause a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: So, the Hunter’s bit was actually in Germany.
KW: Oh yes.
CB: So, what was that?
KW: What do you mean what was that?
CB: No. Where was it?
KW: Well, Bruggen. Bruggen first and they were, this was the time of the Sandys Acts.
CB: Oh yes. ’57.
KW: And so Bruggen, the Bruggen fighter wing was closed overnight and I moved to Oldenburg as a flight commander on Hunters. And then Oldenburg was handed back to the Germans and we moved to Ahlhorn for a short time before coming back to England. That must have been when I went to CFS. Yeah. So, I’ve, I’ve been taking you down the wrong line.
CB: I think you went to CFS in ’58.
KW: That’s right. Just after Sandys.
CB: Yes. Did QFI and then examiner.
KW: Yeah.
CB: What didn’t you like about CFS?
KW: That’s a very good question.
CB: Because you were a pretty experienced bloke like this in action as well as in fighter duties.
KW: No, I [pause] it’s a very good question. I’m not sure what I didn’t like about the CFS but I didn’t like the atmosphere. I came from a fighter squadron and I, I didn’t like examining either. Sitting on my hands watching chaps make absolute arses of themselves. No. I can’t, I can’t elaborate.
CB: Is it frustrating training novices?
KW: Yes.
CB: And —
KW: Yes, it is.
CB: But CFS was learning how to train.
KW: Yeah.
CB: How to do the assessments and training.
KW: You only, only sat at CFS for six months, or five, six months and then you go and train and I certainly didn’t like saying to a chap, ‘I’m sorry but you’re never going to make a pilot.’ Taking the rug from under his feet. I never liked that. And knowing, knowing that the chap had not much natural ability made the effort of flying with him that much greater and no, I didn’t like it. Preferred to be on my own.
CB: But you stayed there quite a while before you moved on, didn’t you?
KW: No.
CB: Did you?
KW: No. I stayed for five months course and then I went to Syerston and I was there for about eighteen months I suppose. And from —
CB: What were you doing there?
KW: Well, that’s Flying Training School. And from there I, I was made an examiner so I used to fly around all the schools. So, I didn’t like doing that either. Its surprising I stayed really.
CB: What did they give you to go around the schools in?
KW: Oh, whatever. Whatever was flying at the time. All the basic flying training was a Jet Provost, Piston Provost [pause] Tiger Moths. All sorts of funny aeroplanes. We used to go around the clubs as well and fly with, because their Cadetships were given and we used to examine the instructors.
CB: This was for flying scholarships.
KW: Yes. For flying scholarships.
CB: Yeah. So, after that came to an end —
KW: Well, Staff College of course.
CB: 1962.
KW: Yeah. Yeah. And that was marvellous. I actually did feel, for the first time I think, part and parcel of the Air Force hierarchy. That’s a bad way of putting it. Felt I might have some chance of adding to the service. There was a feel, this was at Bracknell there was a feeling of, I don’t know [pause] it’s very difficult to explain. Families, we most of us lived in, actually in Bracknell. We were there for a year. Got to know each other extremely well from all sides of the Service. Got to respect them too. I thought it was, when they combined all three Staff Colleges together they’d, Greenwich, Camberley and Bracknell disappeared from the view. I thought that a terrible mistake and I had nothing whatever, I refused to have anything to do with what was going on down at [pause] What is that place down in Wiltshire?
CB: In where? Where?
KW: In Wiltshire.
CB: What?
KW: The School. The Combined School.
CB: Oh right. Now? Shrivenham now.
KW: Shrivenham.
CB: Yes.
KW: Shrivenham.
CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
KW: Squadron leader. Wing commander level. The Army have always had a major level. If you haven’t been to Staff College by the time you are a major or while you are a major you’ve had it and the Navy have never taken Staff College seriously and they, they’ll send you to Staff College if they haven’t got anything else to do with you. So, the three Services have got completely different ideas on what —
CB: Yes.
KW: And I’m sure we had it right.
CB: At squadron leader, wing commander level.
KW: Yes.
CB: Yes.
KW: Yes, because when you’ve spent so much money training a Phantom pilot for instance you wanted to keep him flying for as long as possible. When he comes to the end of his flying, immediate active flying then that’s the time to take him away. And I do remember subsequently when I was commandant at Bracknell feeling that our job there was to take these super pilots from the squadrons, get their feet on the ground so that they realistically acknowledged the sort of desperate pressures that are on the Service. Money. Largely associated with money. And we had one very good flight commander, his name was John [Hough] I remember and after about two terms he stood up one day, he said, ‘I’m fed up of learning what we can’t do and what we can’t have. I want to know what we can do.’ And I thought, yeah. You’re absolutely right. We do want to know what you can do but you can’t do it until you know what you can’t have. And it’s this old dilemma. Do we tell them too much? Subsequently of course he and a number of others immediately left the Service and went to fly for British Airways. Anyway, I enjoyed my year at Bracknell and Pat enjoyed it too. What was next?
CB: So, it set you up well for your next role after staff college.
KW: Oh, yes that was, this, it’s actually interesting. In my day they used to pin what you were, where you were going to go when Postings Day came and everyone was excited about where they were going. They used to pin a notice on the board rather like degrees at university, you know. And I thought I really had drawn the short straw because I was down to go to a posting, a personnel posting job.
CB: You were a wing commander at this stage.
KW: No.
CB: Oh.
KW: No. I was a squadron leader.
CB: Oh.
KW: And I was a wing, a postings job looking after squadron leaders in several Commands and I thought this was disaster. I mean, this is, just precisely what I don’t want to do and it turned out to be absolutely super. I was working with a very nice, it was a hell of a grotty little office in, looking out over a block of flats in, in Holborn and I tell you nothing goes on in those flats that’s worth looking at. I used to sit there watching them. And I was with a very nice chap. He was posted, promoted and posted and in came what I thought was the worst choice in the business because it was, I don’t know if you ever knew John Nichols, he was the only chap who shot down a Mig in —
[pause]
CB: In Korea.
KW: In Korea.
CB: Yes.
KW: He was a glamour boy. He was, he was good looking. He’d got a DFC from shooting down. He came in and I thought, I’m not going to like you. And for the next nine months we did nothing else but laugh. I mean, he was, it was tremendous fun and at the end of that he posted me to command 23 Squadron. Lightnings at Leuchars. And I realised actually that if you’re immersed in personnel business it’s a small world. They all looked after themselves of course there and I was looked after very well. So, I did. I went up to Leuchars for two years and I must say that that was certainly the best tour of my service life. It was absolutely marvellous. Nought to thirty thousand feet in two and a half minutes, you know. Marvellous. From a standing start. Marvellous.
CB: Near vertical climb, was it?
KW: Yes. Yes. Yes. Had to be careful. Supersonic all the time. Supersonic. Not climbing. I mean, you had to be very careful about —
CB: Yeah. Overland.
KW: Overland and things.
CB: What was the great thing about the Lightning?
KW: Well, I mean just the performance. The performance was non parallel but the, I mean it was a bloody awful aeroplane to service them but it was super to fly and the serviceability rates were rather pathetic.
CB: Had a higher rate of engine fires than most planes.
KW: Yes, it did.
CB: Why was that?
KW: It did. Well, it, they had two engines. One above another. That had never been tried before. That’s to keep the profile low and of course it made the servicing very difficult and very often you had to take an engine out to change something like a cabin altimeter. Altimeter. That’s an exaggeration, you didn’t have to do that but little things could cause big problems. But it was super. Super flying. And I went from Leuchars to Gütersloh as station commander and they had Lightnings there of course as well. Lightnings and Hunters. But none of this time has got anything to do with Bomber Command.
CB: It hasn’t, but it’s got a lot to do with your career.
KW: Well —
CB: Because as a fighter man you wanted the ultimate in fighter aircraft, didn’t you?
KW: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, of course.
CB: And, and when you were doing your Leuchars role what was the main activity there?
KW: Well, there was a great deal of intercepting of, of the Soviet aircraft coming, coming around. They were perfectly entitled to be there but we, you get in to this extra ordinary business of letting them know that you’re there and that you know that they’re there and that means the next time they come you’ve got to make sure that they know that. So, it’s a, it’s a never-ending game really.
CB: Yeah. And your ground radars are crucial to that.
KW: Oh yes.
CB: Particularly the ones in Shetland.
KW: Well, they’re not Shetland. They were. There were radars in Shetland but the three main control places were at Brawdy. No. What am I talking about? Brawdy. [pause] Neatishead. That’s terrible. I can’t remember the name.
CB: Boulmer, one of them, is it?
KW: Boulmer.
CB: Boulmer
KW: Boulmer.
CB: Yeah.
KW: That’s right. Not Brawdy but Boulmer. They were actually the two most important ones. Particularly Boulmer which was the master controller over and there was never any, any problem but one was doing an awful lot of fuel transfers and meeting up with the Victors from Waddington.
CB: How long would a sortie last?
KW: Sorry?
CB: How long would a sortie normally last?
KW: Well, how long is a piece of string? Seven, eight hours and it used to get uncomfortable on that.
CB: So, you’d be refuelled three times for that.
KW: Well, at least three times. Yes. Yes. And we used to do a firing camp at, in Cyprus. Flying out to Cyprus. The French were being as always as helpful as possible that they could be preventing us from refuelling over their, their soil so we had to go all the way around.
CB: So, when you were in Gütersloh you’ve got a completely new scenario there so what’s the, what’s the activity?
KW: Well —
CB: You haven’t got Bears coming down from the north.
KW: No. But you’re very close to the, the front line so you’re, we were the nearest airfield to the Soviets so we used to have refuelling aircraft positioned out there constantly practicing refuellings should we need it. We never, never got serious like it had had in the Vampire days. When they were shooting down Lincolns and things.
CB: Yes. Your challenge was to avoid going over the frontier, was it?
KW: Certainly, in Vampires it was. It used to be terrifying, you know because it was a very crude recovery system in those days and you’d transmit and they’d take a bearing on on your transmission and tell you what heading you should make to get to Gütersloh. And if, if it was 270 or anywhere near 270, you thought my God I’m over Eastern Germany. But we didn’t actually have any, any problems in those days. Looking back.
CB: Did the, did the Soviet Block put up their own fighters if you did that? Were they near the frontier or not?
KW: They, they would if we, we used to have exercises going down to Berlin, down the three corridors. Not I might say with Lightnings, and if we strayed either way they would put up aircraft but they never, I mean they knew it was a game and we knew it was a game [pause] And I loved Berlin. Berlin was, it was run on the German economy but everything that we had enjoyed was free to us so that, they had marvellous opera, a marvellous concert theatre. The CinC was part of the Kommandantura at the end of the war and so he had a house in Berlin to justify his position. The, the Army chap had a house and when I say a house magnificent houses they were too. And we used to go out there quite a lot from Germany.
CB: But you wouldn’t take the Lightnings.
KW: Didn’t take Lightnings.
CB: Was that because their manoeuvrability was restricted?
KW: No. It was because serviceability, the length of runways everything was agin it. No. We used to go up in a little old Pembroke which was very useful.
CB: And in Gütersloh then, what was life like there?
KW: Well, I used to take the visiting firemen around Gütersloh and say, ‘Take a good look at this. This is why the Germans lost the war and we won it.’ Because they had a row of hangars that were ideal for the ME109 era but were absolutely no good at all for the Lightning era. They had an airfield that couldn’t be lengthened but was too short for comfort for aircraft like Lightning like we were landing on. It’s an exaggeration to say short but it was not as comfortable as many of the other runways we landed on and there were all sorts of other things that showed that our planners in between the wars who planned these beautiful double ended hangars so if, if you had one sick aeroplane at one end it didn’t block the entire hangar full. You could wind the doors open from the other side. Well, they didn’t have that. If you had a sick aircraft at the front of your hangar you had to repair it or, or not use that hangar. And they had very small hard standings. So, we were very well looked after, between the wars. They weren’t.
CB: They just didn’t want to put money in to it.
KW: But I suppose they were building up at such a ferocious rate they wouldn’t. I don’t know.
CB: And how did the community get on with the local community at Gütersloh?
KW: Very, very well actually. The Gütersloh town itself was very wealthy. Even in my day it had the Claas agricultural machinery. And you see Claas —
CB: Oh yes.
KW: Machinery all around here. It had the Miele washing machine factory which is, gets top marks as a, as the best and most expensive washing machine and there was one, oh Bertelsmann, which is the largest book publishing organisation in Europe if not the world now. And we knew the bosses of all three and they were very good to us. Of course, out of our league in money terms but [pause] And Herr Miele, he was a lovely man. He, he was awarded an OBE. That was just after we left actually for his work for Anglo-German relations. He was a lovely man. He said to me, he said, ‘In 1936 my father he said, “Karl. Karl you must join the Nazi party.” And he said, “Dad why should I do it? Why do I want to join the Nazi party? I don’t want to join the Nazi party. I’m not joining the Nazi party.” He said, “Karl, one of us has got to join the Nazi party and its not going to be me.”’
CB: Pragmatic.
KW: And he, he also said at one stage, I mean this is a chap who was a multi-millionaire. He said, ‘I turned to my boss —’ He’d obviously got, right at the end of the war got a job at Gütersloh Airfield. ‘I turned to my boss, Sergeant Smith —' and Sergeant Smith was the, the quartermaster and he was Karl Miele’s boss. It didn’t last very long I might say. Yes. So we enjoyed it very much at Gütersloh. It was of course reputed to have been Herman Goering’s favourite airfield but then I think we would say that about any airfield out there.
CB: So where did you go after that?
KW: I went to the first course on the IDC courses. Not the, what the hell do they call the course now? [pause] Isn’t that terrible?
CB: What was the IDC? International something, was it? Defence.
KW: Defence College. Yes.
CB: Yes.
KW: But Imperial Defence College.
CB: Oh Imperial. Yes.
KW: But Imperial became a dirty word.
CB: Yeah.
KW: So, it’s a year’s course at Belgrave Square.
CB: What rank are you at this point?
KW: I was a group captain. And I did the course and at the end of it I was promoted and became, well after a short tour in, a very short tour in Whitehall I became an air commodore and was director of air plans.
CB: And before that didn’t you go to run the Royal College of Defence Studies?
KW: No. That is the Royal College of Defence Studies.
CB: Ah. That’s what it is called now.
KW: Yes. That’s right. That’s what it is called now.
CB: Right. Ok. So, in plans, was that interesting?
KW: Yes. It is the crucial air commodore slot in the Air Force there’s no doubt. It’s [pause] it was demanding but, but being at the centre of everything nothing was going on in the Air Force that I didn’t know about.
CB: So, this is strategy, equipment?
KW: Yes.
CB: Personnel. The lot, is it?
KW: Yeah. Equipment and the fall out in personnel from that of course.
CB: And from there that’s when you went to run the Staff College.
KW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So, having been a student before and then returned to be the director then —
KW: Commandant but —
CB: Commandant.
KW: Yeah. I did it for a year and I was very cross that I was taken out and sent to SHAFE for, to be Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Policy and Plans. I didn’t realise at the time but that is a key job in NATO terms and I think it was Denis Spotswood when he was at CAS who was determined to keep that job in the Air Force. Not to let the Navy or the Army or any other nation get hold of it and I think almost every subsequent CAS has has done that job.
CB: So SHAFE is Supreme Headquarters Allied Forces Europe.
KW: Yeah.
CB: So you’re tying together all the NATO activities.
KW: Yeah. In theory but of course what you’re really doing is, is wresting control as far as you can from the Americans. NATO is an American organisation understandably because they put the most of the money in.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
KW: But if you get a piece of string and tie it to all the American posts and shake it until all the non-American posts fall out you are still left with a coherent set up. The Americans could run it themselves. He was determined if we were going to have somebody in the policy and plans organisation that, and I only did that for a year and I was grateful because A it was very busy, B trying to understand the American system and it was all American system. It was really quite difficult. I used to say that if you took away all the Americans from the staff at SHAFE you would be left with absolute chaos because you’d got Greeks, Turks, French subsequently, not in my time but the Spaniards, Belgians but all rowing their own, hoeing their own row rather like the European union. But the Americans, they’ve got it under control. But it was —
CB: So is there a moral in that which is effectively you’ve got to make sure that everything clicks in with the American system.
KW: Oh yes. Of course. Of course. And one shouldn’t, they’re paying the bills —
CB: Exactly.
KW: One shouldn’t rile at having to do it their way. I used to say that when, when anyone comes into the Royal Air Force the first job any officer coming into the Royal Air Force their first job ought to be to go to SHAFE to see how the Americans do it. They’d ever complain about anything ever again. But that’s pretty naïve because it’s the Americans who are paying the bill so we’ve got to do it their way.
CB: So, effectively you were the sounding board were you on what was going on for the RAF?
KW: No. No. It was more than a sounding, less of a sounding board. It was [pause] it was giving respectability to an international organisation that actually didn’t have any respectability. I worked for Al Hague. Hell of a nice chap, Al Hague and I, I’d vote for him for president but I wouldn’t buy a second-hand car from him. They are tricky dickies these Americans.
CB: And what was their reaction to you in this role?
KW: Well, they were used to it. They were used to —
CB: Because you were an air marshal now.
KW: Yes. Well, air vice marshal.
CB: Vice marshal.
KW: Yeah. They were used to an RAF Air Vice Marshal going through. My predecessor Michael Beetham, he had done it. I think he was probably the first but they they’d got used to it and all the subsequent ones had done it.
CB: Because he was a blunt, opinionated, forceful sort of character Beetham. Was he?
KW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Wartime experience.
KW: Yeah. Yeah. He was a —
CB: Originator of the TSR2.
KW: Yeah. He was. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And it was a smooth transition to you in the role.
KW: Yes, I don’t think there was any, any dramas. I mean you say the [pause] had TSR2 basic, he was a fairly junior, o/r chap when the —
CB: Oh right.
KW: The TSR2 but I mean nevertheless they were very important roles they had to play in setting up but I don’t think you could say that he was to blame for what happened to the TSR2.
CB: No. No. No. I meant he was the originator.
KW: No. I think that’s exaggerating too. He picked, picked the baton up and ran with it and he ran very hard. Of course, he lived in South Creake.
CB: Oh, did he? Yes. Not ten miles away. So, after being at SHAFE then what happened? What did you do next?
KW: I came back to Training Command and that’s, that was interesting actually. It was at a time when the Hawk was coming in to training [pause] and Training Command embraced the factory side of, of what was Maintenance Command or had been Maintenance Command. So, we had a factory at Sealand up in Cheshire and we had to deal with civil servants and unions and things that was new to my experience.
CB: What were the key factors really in running Training Command then?
KW: Well, it’s a matter [pause] any training organisation has got to make sure the output is, is keeping in step with the requirement and I think they did alright. There never were, there was, there was trouble because [pause] shouldn’t really bring politics into it but you probably don’t remember but in, this was in 1978 it was towards the end of the Callaghan government and money was very very tight. People were queuing up to leave the Service and we, we had, I mean it’s bizarre really. We had waiting lists for people to rise to the top of the of the queue to leave the Service. So we had a lot of instructors, flying instructors who were themselves longing to leave the Service. And what a way to encourage youngsters to come in. You come in this dynamic force which everyone else is desperate to leave and we’re in danger of being in that spot at the moment for different reasons. So that was, that was a depressing time. And then of course Margaret Thatcher was elected and she, she would have lost her, well the Conservatives would, would have certainly lost the next election if it hadn’t been for the Falklands.
CB: Meanwhile you’d changed Commands, hadn’t you?
KW: Yes. I, I’d gone. I’d gone from Brampton in Huntingdon to Strike Command. And in winning the battle over the over the Falklands Margaret Thatcher was extraordinarily generous to us. That generosity lasted, I think, oh all of about two weeks but —
CB: So, how was she, how did this generosity extend itself?
KW: Well, you can have what you want. Tell me what you want. You’ve lost a Nimrod. Not a Nimrod, a [pause] Hercules. You’ve lost a Hercules. You must replace it. Well, we didn’t want to replace it. There were more, by then there were more important things to spend money on but anyways she was kind to us initially. And then we had John Knott and Michael Heseltine. Well, if Michael Heseltine had, well on the face of it he was a very powerful man in cabinet so if he was, if he had been as interested in defence as he was in Michael Heseltine he would have been a magnificent Minister of Defence but he wasn’t and he didn’t. He was only interested in Michael Heseltine and he is still only interested in Michael Heseltine.
CB: Yeah. Could we just take a step back? You joined as CinC Strike Command. Here is a link historically with the wartime activities of the RAF. To what extent would you say there was a consideration, understanding, admiration of what had happened in Bomber Command that might have been then transferred to later times? With V bombers for instance?
KW: Virtually none I would think. I was, I admired [pause] the Vulcan force was just about to be disbanded. It was equipped with bombsights, radar, that were suitable for the 1950s. It had not done any inflight refuelling training in the memory of, of any of the pilots and yet they, they organised, Michael Beetham at the helm organised this bombing expedition against Stanley which I was lost in admiration for at the organisation, the discipline, the [pause] well the way, the way it was organised. The whole operation was a magnificent example of airmanship at its best. I was very sceptical. I wasn’t, I didn’t think it was a sensible thing to do but it clearly was and it was done extremely well although I was CinC at the time the aircraft had been allocated to 18 Group and were being controlled by AOC 18 Group and CinC Fleet. So, I actually had nothing to do with launching the [pause] all I had to do was make sure they got what they needed to do what they said they wanted to do and that was the easy bit from my point of view. But to launch that number of aircraft. To get one aircraft load on to Stanley was really, actually even now it hasn’t been understood. I, I remember meeting, shortly afterwards meeting a French general whose name I can’t now remember who was a bit of a pain in the arse to us or had been in the old days. He used to argue a lot but he was a real operator. He knew what he was talking about and he said to me ‘Tell me —’ he said, ‘How far is it Ascension to the Falklands?’ So I said, ‘Well, it was about four thousand miles.’ He said, ‘Four thousand miles there and four thousand miles back.’ He said, ‘It is miraculous.’ At the same time some of our armchair critics were sitting being interviewed and saying, ‘Oh, yes, well of course that’s what the Vulcan was procured for.’ And clearly had got no understanding of what they were talking about but this from a Frenchman that did. Forget. General Forget. A great chap. So, I didn’t really have any operational control over those chaps. And I did have a slight contretemps with both Michael Beetham and the chaps who, who were flying it that I thought they should going, bombing from lower than they were going to bomb from but I think I was wrong in that they’d if you want to penetrate you have to have some downward movement. I don’t know. I’m —
CB: Certainly a tricky task.
KW: Yes.
CB: Then one of them broke his refuelling boom off Brazil.
KW: Yeah. That was inevitable really. Yes.
CB: Something would happen.
KW: Yes.
CB: Yes.
KW: But they’d set up Brazil to be used as an alternative and they’d done that very nicely. Particularly when at the time Brazilians were really on the Argentinian side. But I knew that if, if we lost a Vulcan it would be disaster. But they went through a very dangerous exercise and they did it very well.
CB: Then the aftermath of the Falklands was what? There needed to be better provision for air defence did there?
KW: No. I don’t think that was —
CB: In the Falklands.
KW: Oh yes. In the Falklands certainly. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was obvious we needed to know what aircraft were going in and out and that did involve some expense of putting radars in pretty inaccessible places. And I certainly was determined that we shouldn’t have fighters wasting their time if they hadn’t got the ground support they needed.
CB: But of course, as a fighter man you had the full understanding of defending the island.
KW: Yeah, but I —
CB: So, what did you do about airfields?
KW: Ah, well I’ll tell you the way that Whitehall works or it doesn’t work. They sent a man out to Stanley because they, they were saying that Stanley can be extended, there was no need for a new airfield and they sent a man out to Stanley who not only had never flown but he was an Army general, to tell us whether we needed an airfield. It is indescribable. Fortunately, he came back and obviously they’d got at him down in the Falklands and explained to him why in words of one syllable there was no possibility of extending Port Stanley Airfield to take the modern aircraft and they’d have to bite the bullet. It would be cheaper to bite the bullet and build a new airfield and this is what they did of course [pause] And little has been made of the reinforcements that we sent down with the Harriers to the Falklands. Once again, extremely dangerous exercise that the chaps had never tried before, never, never practised before, were never capable of practising before but which went actually very smoothly.
CB: This is operating from carriers.
KW: It’s getting down to the carriers in the first place and then operating from the carriers throughout the war.
CB: So how did that work? Getting the Harriers there.
KW: Well, they, they refuelled. They refuelled and landed at sea. I mean, I forget actually the detail precisely of where they landed but between, somewhere between the Falklands and Ascension Island.
CB: And this is all with RAF pilots.
KW: Yes. Yes.
CB: What would you think was the most memorable event in your time as CinC Strike Command?
[pause]
KW: I don’t know [pause] Well, I think actually the final success in the Falklands. Of course, we had tremendous problems with getting the infra-red equipment to be used on the ground by the Army.
CB: Is it target illumination?
KW: Yes. Yes. Yes. And to make sure that it got done in a useable state. That the Army were au fait with how to use it and B that it worked when it did. And right at the very end I do remember a bomb [pause] We were asking for reports of where the, where the, what the bombs were achieving and I remember one message that came back, “It’s gone straight down the barrel of the gun.” There was one gun that was holding us up. I think it was probably an exaggeration but nevertheless it got the message across that A the equipment was working and B they had better watch out. Yes. I think the relief of knowing that so much depended on it.
CB: So, then your final posting was just after that. So, what was the final posting?
KW: No. That was, that was the last one.
CB: It was after.
KW: Yeah.
CB: Ok. So, then you took over as CAS. Chief of the Air Staff.
KW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So that ran from when?
KW: 1982 to ’85 and that covered the post-war period. So, I don’t think that’s any help to you and your Bomber Command.
CB: Just a final question on that. What, what did it feel like to be effectively in charge of the whole of the RAF having started at the lowest point?
KW: I don’t think it even remotely troubled my mind. I mean, it was —
CB: Because you had the political —
KW: Yeah.
CB: Liaison much more as you went further up the line, didn’t you?
KW: Absolutely right. And I, I’ve not met many politicians who I would allow across my front door. One or two marvellous chaps and one or two quite likely, unlikely chaps. I remember when I was commandant at Bracknell we had the Secretary of State for Defence was that man from Barnsley.
CB: Yes. Fred Mulley.
KW: No. No. No, not Fred Murray.
CB: Mulley.
KW: Not Fred Mulley.
CB: No.
KW: No. No.
Other: I should know. I’m from Barnsley.
KW: Are you?
Other: Yes.
KW: That’s terrible. You should. You should jolly well know that.
Other: I know.
KW: Anyway —
CB: It should trip off the tongue but I can’t remember it.
KW: It would trip off my tongue. Anyway, it’ll come when you’ve gone. But he came, we used to have the chiefs of all, all three Services and the Secretary of State for all three Services come down and talk to the Staff College and he was due to come down on one occasion. He, they normally had lunch with us and either spoke before lunch or spoke after lunch. He was due to speak after lunch and he refused to come to lunch and when we met him he was very bristly. He was clearly very, he thought he was going to be got at. You have questions from all the students. Thought he was going to be got at. But the, I forget what the first question was but it was absolutely marvellous and it set him off on a train and he was the best Secretary of State for Defence I had, I ever served because he was interested in defence. He, he understood that his job was to improve defence. Not to pare defence and get the money. What was his name?
CB: I got the wrong, I had the wrong political party just then. Yes.
KW: He was very very Labour. Isn’t that terrible?
Other: I’ll remember when I get home.
KW: Yes. But he was absolutely lovely. And we had one or two who were absolutely dreadful. And of course, the Sandys Acts, Sandys standing up at his, in Hansard now, ‘There’s no future —’ This is 1957, ‘No future in manned aircraft. Defence will be in the hands of the missiles.’ In 1957. And never heard of him being sacked. No. He was a marvellous chap. He was Winston’s Churchill’s son in law. Must be a good chap. What is that man’s name?
CB: Let me divert you then while you’re considering that.
KW: Yeah.
CB: Because the final point really is here you are working for the chief of, with the Chief of the Defence Staff so you’ve got the Navy, the Army and the Air Force all tying in together. How does that work?
KW: Well, under, under the scheme that the last war was run and under the scheme that the Falkland war was run it worked fairly well. But as soon as you appointed a primus inter pares you got people who want to show they’re in charge and, ‘It’s my ideas.’ And it doesn’t work. It’s, I said at the time that it was a [pause] I had a phrase for it [pause] To the effect that it was, it made no sense. Logically it was nonsensible because you, as a Naval officer know, are not and cannot ever be the Principal Naval Advisor to the Queen or to the government if you’re not CDS. But if you are CDS the only advice you can give is Naval advice. So, you must be able to discuss it. I was quite prepared to fight my corner for the Air Force and certainly sometimes of course you do get party lines crossed. But no, it, this was Michael Heseltine determination that we, we should have an enhanced central staff and its nonsense and it means of course now CAS lives down in High Wycombe. Don’t know where the hell the Naval chap lives. You’re not a team but it was, I don’t know why it was done frankly because Michael Heseltine refused to allow us to be even involved in the discussions.
CB: Of? Of major strategy.
KW: No. No. Of high direction of —
CB: Right.
KW: Of defence. Forbad PUS of the day from discussing it with us.
Other: Roy Mason.
KW: Roy Mason. He is the man. You are absolutely right. Lovely man.
Other: Yeah.
KW: Lovely man. I’d have him on my side fighting but he, he was so nervous but once his dander was up his dander was up and he was jolly good news.
CB: So, you retired from the RAF in 1985 you said, and you were then promoted.
KW: Well, that’s —
CB: Marshal of the Royal Air Force.
KW: Yeah. That’s —
CB: You were the last to receive that rank, were you?
KW: No. No.
CB: Craig, was it?
KW: No. I need, I need you to tell me his name.
CB: There was —
KW: Harding.
CB: Harding. Yeah. Just one other.
KW: One other. Yes.
CB: And when you came to retirement what did you think that you might do next?
KW: Well, I, I got a job with one of the companies which fell apart before I got the, got to the job. I was going to take over on Marconis. Do you remember Marconi turned belly up? Who was after [pause] Weinstock? I forget. Anyway, and I had got nothing to add to anything so I played golf.
CB: Very good. What’s your handicap now?
KW: I’ve, I’ve given up.
CB: What was it before you gave up?
KW: Eleven.
CB: So, you’ve done quite well.
KW: No. No. No. No.
CB: What was the highest handicap you had?
KW: That was the highest I ever had.
CB: Oh, it was. But you enjoyed it. That was the key.
KW: Yes, and it was, we had the loveliest course at Brancaster and I was playing with Michael Beetham. I was staying with Michael Beetham actually on one occasion and coming down the 18th fairway the Wetherby family from Newmarket were coming in and they had seven dogs. It was absolutely lovely. They were running all over the place. I think they had five whippets and two other dogs and I thought I’ve never been on a golf course that allowed dogs to roam where they like and I think it’s delightful so this is where I want to play golf. So, when I got back we were actually up here looking for a house to move in to and I said to Pat, ‘I’ve solved where we’re going to live. It’s here.’ And that’s what we did and we’ve been here ever since.
CB: How long was that?
KW: Well, 1984 we were, so it’s thirty three years.
CB: In anticipation of retirement.
KW: Yes. Yes.
CB: Very good.
KW: I I had no feelings that I had a battle to win.
CB: No.
KW: I would have liked to have earned more money but then that’s life.
CB: What would you say was in your whole career with the Royal Air Force what was your most memorable event?
KW: Event?
CB: Or what is your most cherished memory? Put it a different way.
KW: Well, I think actually being a squadron commander of a front line squadron was absolutely ideal and there at Leuchars we had a squadron headquarters in the old air traffic building which had of course the balcony and overlooking the airfield. And just over there was the Royal and Ancient Golf Course so we, we had everything that we needed apart from the good weather. The weather wasn’t all that good.
CB: Well, Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir Keith Williamson thank you very much.
KW: Thank you, and, I shall —
CB: For a most interesting conversation.
KW: I shall sue you if you use it for any purpose, nefarious purpose and I shall sue you —
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Title
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Interview with Keith Alec Williamson
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2018-01-15
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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AWilliamsonKA180115
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01:38:50 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
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Sir Keith Alec Williamson was born in in Leytonstone, Essex. Early education was at Bancroft’s School until bombs fell across the school. He was then sent to a grammar school in Market Harborough where he joined the Air Training Corps. On leaving school he became and aircraft apprentice at RAF Halton before gaining a scholarship to RAF Cranwell as a cadet. After he was posted to Germany to join a Vampire squadron. As the Korean war had broken out, he volunteered to fight and joined 77 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force flying Meteors. On returning to Great Britain, he was posted as aide-de-camp to the Commander-in-Chief (Home Command). After three years he returned to Germany as flight commander for 20 Squadron, flying Hunters. On promotion to Squadron Leader he became a qualified flying instructor at the Central Flying School and then an examiner. Then followed staff college before being posted to the Air Ministry. His next posting was to command 23 Squadron at RAF Leuchars which operated Lightnings. He subsequently describes life back in Germany as station commander at RAF Gütersloh. Further senior postings were to Whitehall, staff college and as assistant chief of staff at Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE). After commanding Support Command and then Strike Command his final posting was as Chief of Air Staff before retiring in 1985 as Marshall of the Royal Air Force.
Contributor
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Nick Cornwell-Smith
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--London
Germany
Germany--Gütersloh
Korea
Belgium
Belgium--Mons
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Lincolnshire
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
20 Squadron
23 Squadron
77 Squadron
bombing
Meteor
RAF Cranwell
RAF Halton
RAF Leuchars
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/117/46467/SHarriganD[Ser -DoB]v330002.mp3
4ef11453b1a2f73ed4f05a602afc89ac
Dublin Core
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Title
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Cook, Kenneth
Kenneth Cook
Kenneth H Cook
Ken Cook
K H Cook
K Cook
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Wing Commander Kenneth Howell Cook DFC (b. 1923, 151017 Royal Air Force). Kenneth Cook flew 45 operations with 97 Squadron, Pathfinders.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2016-08-04
2016-07-25
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Cook, KHH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Wing Commander Kenneth Cook DFC
1039-Cooke, Kenneth
Identifier
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SHarriganD[Ser#-DoB]v33
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
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eng
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Sound
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00:15:10 audio recording
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Pending OH transcription. Allocated
Pending OH summary. Allocated C Campbell
Creator
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Claire Bennett
This Interview was recorded by Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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This item is being used for TOU9156 teaching. Do not publish transcription until June 2024.
Interviewer: Ok, Ken.
KC: Ok. Hello. This is Wing Commander Ken Cook DFC. I joined the Royal Air Force in October 1941, U/T air crew and after training in Canada I came, returned back to the UK, commissioned as a young pilot officer air bomber and went through various conversion training courses in the UK and eventually joined up with a crew. And our first squadron was Number 9 Squadron at Bardney in Lincolnshire flying Lancasters in Number 5 Group of Bomber Command. After about ten ops with 9 Squadron we were as a crew recruited by the Pathfinder Force which was based in Cambridgeshire and so we were as a crew posted to do additional specialised training as at that time new radar equipment was being brought in and introduced to Bomber Command and in my case it was my job to learn the gadgets known as H2S, Gee and Loran. So, my role changed from being a straightforward air bomber to becoming a radar navigator and air bomber and so it was my job particularly to work the H2S which had a capability for uses in airborne navigation device. And of course, also it’s main role with the Pathfinders was, was identifying German targets and it enabled the Pathfinder crews to find the German targets and to mark them with target indicators so that the main force crews of Bomber Command coming in behind us could identify where the target was and very often bombing on our markers. So we had to be very accurate how we dropped them and where we dropped them and I did this, I ended up doing a total of forty five ops, thirty five of those was as a member of a Pathfinder crew. We eventually having started out with the Pathfinders at Bourn in Cambridgeshire my squadron were then deployed in about April of ’44 to Coningsby in Lincolnshire to join with Number 83 Squadron that had been posted up there from Wyton. And our job was to work with the special force under Wing Commander Leonard Cheshire who was devising a system of finding the targets where the Germans where assembling V weapons on the French coast and in Belgium. And our job was to illuminate the target with parachute flares so that he trained a special force of Mosquito dive bombers that could lay the target markers in these tunnels so that our main force crews from 5 Group and other Groups could come over and do area or intensive accurate bombing as well on these targets. And I completed my forty fifth op in 1944 and was posted to RAF Fiskerton in Lincolnshire as the station radar nav officer. My job was to, we had two squadrons there, 49 and 189 and my job was to fly with these crews and check them out on their ability to use their radar equipment because now the main force were getting the same sort of radar gear that the Pathfinders had had for some time. And so it was my job to make sure the air crew when they, before they went on ops could operate their new radar equipment. And I stayed there for a year or two and eventually was posted to Headquarters, Number 1 Group at Bawtry as the Group radar navigation officer. My job was to oversee all the squadrons, all the Lancaster squadrons in 1 Group to ensure that the crews were properly trained in operating their radar equipment. Can I stop there? Right. Let’s carry on then.
[pause]
On some of the incidents that come to mind one in particular because the Lancaster bomber we all wear warm clothing because the, in the middle of winter the temperatures in the aircraft could become extremely low and in fact if you had to use the elsan at the back of the aircraft it would be extremely low and freezing. And on one occasion I was forced to go back there and use the elsan and I discovered the temperature was minus fifty three degrees Celsius and of course, in having to use the elsan and lower the clothing etcetera I found that my bottom was sticking to the seat to a little bit when I tried to stand up. But I had to stand up because at that time the skipper was calling me, ‘Come on, Ken. We’re only ten miles from the target.’ So I had to hurry up and get back. But in doing so I experienced a little a bit of pain [laughs] in certain lower regions. The other, some of the other aspects of my career was at having completed forty five ops I was then sent off to do jobs as I mentioned with other stations and other squadrons and taking me to the end of the war I applied for a Short Service Commission and this was granted. And after a couple of years the Air Ministry offered me a peacetime Permanent Commission which I accepted and I was down the rank of flight lieutenant and so I then was asked to move out from Bomber Command and become trained with peacetime navigation courses and I thought well, perhaps I’m going to shoot now into somewhere like Transport Command but none of it. Having completed my peacetime navigation course I was then asked by Air Ministry to go through the night fighter OCU at Leeming where I was then trained again to become a navigator radar operator with the AI equipment on night fighters. And so after the appropriate course at Leeming I was then posted to 23 Squadron at Coltishall on Mosquito Mark 36s and I flew with them for about two and a half years until one day I was told that I was to go back to Leeming as a squadron leader to set up the ground school for the introduction of the first jet night fighters. The Meteor NF11 was coming in and I was to head up the ground school with the expansion of the RAFs night fighter force both in the UK and Germany and also the odd squadron in Malta and Cyprus. And so I did that job for about two years and eventually was posted to RAF Newton which was then the headquarters of 12 Fighter Group as the Group navigation officer. And I did the staff duties there but also managed to keep on flying with some of the squadrons in 12 Group, night fighter squadrons until eventually one day the AOC asked me would I like to go back on a squadron as a flight commander. And so the AOC of 12 Group had me posted back to West Malling where I became a flight commander on number 85 Squadron as a navigator which was an unusual post which I enjoyed. And I did that for just over a year and one day the AOC of 11 Group sent for me and said, ‘Cook, do you think you could command a night fighter squadron?’ I said, 'Yes sir.’ He said, ‘Well, you’ve got one tomorrow. ‘You’re going to become a wing commander.’ And so I did that and I became the CO of one of the other squadrons at West Malling called 153 and I was made an acting wing commander and only had that job for about a couple of months when they decided to close the airfield because our flights were getting involved with civil aircraft flying in from the continent, particularly at night. And so they closed the airfield at West Malling and I, and I took 153 Squadron up to Waterbeach in Cambridgeshire and stayed with them for a while and eventually we changed our number to become 25 Squadron. And I completed my two years with the 25 squadron, 153/25 squadron and then one day I was told, ‘You’re going to the staff college.’ And I thought oh I’m going to learn to read and write again. But I did a one year course at the Staff College at Bracknell and after that the Air Ministry in their wisdom said, ‘You’ve done enough flying you’ve got to do an admin job.’ So they posted me and my wife to Aden as a wing commander in the organization branch which was concerned with improving the airfields throughout the Aden Protectorate and then up in the Gulf. So I did that for about two years and then I came back. I’m not quite sure what to do after that but I eventually did a job as the staff officer to the Home Commander, Home Defence Forces which was an organisation which has now been set up to deal with what would happen if there was a nuclear attack on Britain and what would the Air Force be doing to help out. And one of my jobs was to get involved with working out plans on that. And things have gradually moved along until eventually I decided to take early retirement and I left the RAF after twenty six years service in 1947.
Interviewer: And to go back to your, your Bomber Command days it’s always very interesting how the crews got together I think. Now, were you, how did you? I know you go into a sort of a hangar sort of thing and you mill around. There’s no organisation. Were you expecting that or, and did you know somebody? How did your crew come together?
KC: Well, when you got in the early stages of training you started to think about crewing up when you were flying on Wellingtons. You went, in my case I went to Cottesmore which was number 14 OTU and there you meet up with pilots, the wireless operator, straight navigator, air gunners. They were all brought in there and you’d chat with them and eventually you agreed to form a crew. And that’s what we did.
Interviewer: And it proved satisfactory.
KC: Yeah.
Interviewer: Didn’t it?
KC: For instance my skipper was an Australian.
Interviewer: Ah.
KC: Yeah. I was a West Country Gloucestershire man. The other navigator was a Yorkshire man. The mid-upper gunner was a Canadian. The wireless operator was a Londoner and the tail gunner was a Scotsman. That was my crew.
Interviewer: League of Nations.
KC: Yeah.
Interviewer: And you obviously all got on and you all gelled.
KC: We gelled. Yes. Yes. We stayed together for forty five trips. Yeah.
Interviewer: And you’ve mentioned Leonard Cheshire. Did you have much to do with him?
KC: Well, now Leonard Cheshire was based at Woodhall Spa but once we started and once my squadron had come up from 8 Group and we were now at Coningsby with alongside 83, the Pathfinder Squadron when we had briefings on a pre-briefing on a raid Cheshire would come in to see, hear to the breifing. But he particularly once we’d done the raid he would come back because often he would go on the raid himself. He would come back and listen to the debriefing and if things were not coming out clear from the debriefing of the crews he would cut in to explain what was going on where he was concerned in the air. To sort out any, so the intelligence people doing the debriefing could get a more accurate story of what was happening over the other side.
Interviewer: Did you form any opinions of him as a —
KC: Oh, he was the top boy really. Yes. He was, he had tremendous respect from all the all the, all the aircrew like myself.
Interviewer: Yes, so —
KC: What he was and what he did and of course he did a hundred ops, didn’t he?
Interviewer: He did.
KC: Yeah. Can I stop now?
Interviewer: Yeah [laughs] That was Wing Commander Kenneth Cook DFC, retired RAF Bomber Command talking at Thorpe Camp on the 24th Of September about his wartime experiences. Thank you, Wing Commander.
Ken Cook joined the RAF in 1941 and trained as a bomb aimer. He was posted to 9 Squadron at RAF Bardney. After approximately ten ops the crew were posted to the Pathfinder Force at RAF Bourn where he became radar navigator and air bomber. They were then posted to RAF Coningsby with 83 Squadron with the role of seeking V weapon launch sites. After forty five operations he was posted to RAF Fiskerton as station radar navigation officer. He then joined the HQ at RAF Bawtry as Group radar navigation officer. The 23 Squadron at Coltishall on Mosquitoes before being asked to form a ground school at RAF Leeming.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1944
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
23 Squadron
83 Squadron
9 Squadron
aircrew
bomb aimer
bombing
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
Lancaster
military living conditions
military service conditions
Mosquito
Pathfinders
radar
RAF Bardney
RAF Bawtry
RAF Bourn
RAF Coningsby
RAF Fiskerton
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1912/35962/MHayhurstJM2073102-170725-03.1.pdf
21597822f767468bd10a82b71f6e703f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hayhurst, Jose Margaret
J M Hayhurst
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hayhurst, JM
Description
An account of the resource
108 items. The collection concerns Sergeant Jose Margaret Hayhurst (2073102 Royal Air Force) and contains decorations, uniform, documents and photographs. She served as a radar operator in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Andrew Whitehouse and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
RAF Badges cigarette card collection
Description
An account of the resource
A collection of RAF squadron badges kept in a booklet.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
John Player & Sons
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France--Saint-Omer (Pas-de-Calais)
Great Britain
England--Birmingham
Pakistan--Risālpur (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa)
Germany--Cologne
England--Gosport
Egypt--Alexandria
Jordan--Amman
England--Martlesham Heath
Pakistan--Peshawar
Pakistan--Kohat District
Pakistan--Miānwāli District
India--Ambāla (District)
Pakistan--Karachi
Egypt--Ismailia (Province)
Belgium--Zeebrugge
Belgium--Ostend
France--Somme
Egypt--Ḥulwān
Iraq--Baghdad
England--Copmanthorpe
Iraq--Baṣrah
Germany--Düsseldorf
Egypt--Heliopolis (Extinct city)
Singapore
England--Andover
England--Old Sarum (Extinct city)
England--Folkestone
Scotland--Dalgety Bay
Scotland--Montrose
England--Thetford
England--Winchester
England--Hucknall
Scotland--Abbotsinch (Air base)
France
Egypt
Germany
Belgium
India
Iraq
Pakistan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Hampshire
England--Kent
England--Norfolk
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Warwickshire
Scotland--Stirling (Stirling)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
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18 page booklet
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MHayhurstJM2073102-170725-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
104 Squadron
12 Squadron
15 Squadron
18 Squadron
20 Squadron
207 Squadron
216 Squadron
23 Squadron
25 Squadron
27 Squadron
28 Squadron
31 Squadron
32 Squadron
35 Squadron
38 Squadron
40 Squadron
43 Squadron
57 Squadron
66 Squadron
70 Squadron
9 Squadron
RAF Abingdon
RAF Biggin Hill
RAF Bircham Newton
RAF Calshot
RAF Catterick
RAF Duxford
RAF Farnborough
RAF Hendon
RAF Henlow
RAF Hornchurch
RAF Kenley
RAF Marham
RAF Martlesham Heath
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Netheravon
RAF North Weald
RAF Northolt
RAF Odiham
RAF Scampton
RAF Tangmere
RAF Upavon
RAF Upper Heyford