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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1064/11520/AParkeRG161019.1.mp3
a6c231d8feaa86fb5a16ca4352d65ea2
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Title
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Parke, Ray
Ray G Parke
R G Parke
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Ray Parke (b. 1925, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 218 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-10-19
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Parke, RG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: David Kavanagh, International Bomber Command Centre, interviewing Raymond, Ray Parke at his home, 19th October 2016. [unclear] Very much.
US: Ok.
RP: Alright, I’ve just looked at me logbook. [unclear] Unfortunately most of the story was written down here,
DK: Oh! [laughs]
RP: He was my navigator.
DK: Oh, ok.
RP: And this is the crew.
DK: If I just put that down there, is that ok? Let’s hope it’s not too [unclear]
RP: Yes, yes. [unclear]
DK: Ah, so which one are you then? Right, ok. So that was your crew then, was it?
RP: That’s right, yes.
DK: You name, still name them all?
RP: OH yes. George Klenner, the skipper, Australian, George Bell, wireless operator, Les Walker, navigator, Paul Songest, mid upper, Paul McCalla, rear gunner, and Miles Tripp, bomb aimer.
US: You’re the only one left now [laughs].
RP: I’m the only one left now. They’ve all gone.
DK: So what’s the name of the rear gunner, sorry?
RP: That’s Miles Tripp.
DK: Miles Tripp, yes. So, he’s written that book.
RP: That’s right, yes, and that’s just the story of how he phoned us all up and then recalled the various trips we did.
US: Yes.
DK: Oh, ok.
US: He came [unclear]
DK: Were they all British then your crew?
RP: No, Jamaican and Australian, the rest of them were British, yes, yeah.
DK: That’s quite unusual, Jamaican.
RP: We didn’t get on awfully well, I’m a Norfolk dumpling and he’s a Londoner [laughs] and so and that was quite a laugh at the end, but
DK: Bit of change at the end.
RP: Yeah. [laughs]
US: Excuse me.
RP: That’s the same picture are more or less [unclear].
DK: Alright, ok.
RP: These pictures were taken from you see, this is a news chronicle.
DK: Right, so, just for the benefit of the tape here, so the book’s called the eight passenger,
RP: That’s right, yeah.
DK: A flight of recollection and discovery by Miles Tripp, ok.
RP: Yes, yeah. And I think they got a picture of the Lancaster here somewhere, no, that’s not there, there is something else, no, that’s not there, this newspaper photograph that was taken they day we landed from our fortieth and we were agreed by all the big buicks from number 3 group because we were the only crew in 3 group to complete forty operations in one tour,
DK: Wow!
RP: You know how they extended the tour a couple of times and as soon as we landed they said went back to [unclear] [laughs]
DK: So you did forty operations altogether.
RP: Yes, yeah.
DK: And was that all with 218 Squadron?
RP: Yes, yes.
DK: Ok. Can I just ask then, we are sort of going back a bit, what were you doing immediately before the war?
RP: Before the war, we both worked on the railway.
US: Yeah, you were
RP: She was on the LNER station Norwich and I was on the MGN at Norwich.
US: That’s how we met.
RP: That’s how we met.
US: [unclear]
RP: And I was the messenger and you the [unclear] and so we got together in that way.
DK: Ok. If I keep looking down I’m just checking that the tape’s ok, if that’s alright.
RP: Oh yes.
DK: Yes. [laughs] Sorry, I should have said. So what, so how many years were you working on the railway then?
RP: 1939 till 1943.
US: I 1939 to 1949.
RP: yeah.
US: [unclear]
RP: Yes. So I joined the RAF in 1943, September, you know, the usual thing, ACRC, London, and went through
DK: Just stepping back a bit, what made you want to join the RAF then, was as opposed to the army or navy?
RP: My best friend at school was a man named David [unclear] he was about three or four months older than me and he joined up first, he became a flight engineer and so I wanted to become a flight engineer. But first of all, when I enrolled, you can see, I was rather a different shape, and so they said, well, you are too big to be an air gunner, would you like to be a wireless operator? I said, no, not particularly, and so remustered to become a flight engineer and the test for that, I said, do you anything about engines? I said, no, can you describe for me a cotter pin? Yes, I said, and I described one on a bicycle, oh, that will do, you’re in.
DK: So based on that they decided you could be a flight engineer.
RP: That’s right, yes, yes.
DK: So, what was your initial training, then, as you joined the RAF?
RP: I was just working as a messenger on the railway
DK: Yes, yes. So, once you were in the RAF, what was your training then?
RP: The usual thing, we joined up and then go to ACRC, ITW, OTU, and then St Athans and then engineering instruction at St Athans and from there
DK: You remember which operational training unit you were with?
RP: Yes, there’s an OTU, I can’t remember whether it is 17, yes, yeah. But with the flight engineer, you don’t join the crew until, more or less at our stage, the other five trained separately on smaller aircraft and when they go on to a larger four-engine aircraft [unclear] engineer joins. And that’s the usual procedure then that you’re all put together in a big hall and you are told to get together and sort yourselves out a crew.
DK: Did you think that worked cause it’s rather unusual way of getting the crews together, getting
RP: It seems to work, in my case I was standing by the wall like a wallflower and he came across me and said
DK: Is that your pilot came over
RP: Yes, he said, are you Ray Park? I said, yes. He said, is that you at the top of the list? At first, I said, yes, alright you’re in [laughs]. And from there we did the training, initial training and started along the squadron, 218 Squadron, at Methwold near Norfolk in September ’44 and at that stage I was about eighteen and a half and by the time I was just under twenty I had finished forty operations. So I was one of the youngest at that time.
DK: So can you remember vividly your first operation?
RP: Yes, I can tell you,
DK: [unclear]
RP: It was to Duisburg and it was one of the first thousand bomber operations and ironically our fortieth was another thousand bomber operation. Duisburg, that’s the [unclear] and the [unclear]
DK: Ok, fine. So your first operation then was the fourteenth of October?
RP: That’s right. Yes. [unclear]
DK: That’ll be ok, we’re still picking up. So, fourteenth of October, so the pilots, flying officer
RP: Flying officer Klenner. It was a daytime operation at first and then within the same twenty-four hours a second one, to Duisburg.
DK: Alright, so daytime operation, fourteenth of October to Duisburg and then the same night
RP: Same night
DK: Same night, Duisburg again
RP: Yeah, back to Duisburg, and they were thousand bomber raids and that was our introduction
DK: So your next operations then are, is that the nineteenth of October to Stuttgart.
RP: Yes, a place called Stuttgart.
DK: So twenty fifth of October, Essen.
RP: That’s right.
DK: And then twenty ninth of October, West Kapelle.
RP: West Kapelle, yeah.
DK: And then,
RP: And then, Cologne.
DK: Thirteenth of October, Cologne.
RP: Cologne, yes.
DK: So there’s a lot of operations all in a short space of time.
RP: Yes, in the German part called the Ruhr. Essen, Cologne and places like that and they were the hotspots.
DK: So then it’s November then, so, fourth of November.
RP: November, yes.
DK: Solingen.
RP: Solingen.
DK: Fifth of November, Solingen again. So, twenty third of November, Gelsenkirchen. Twenty six of November, Fulda. Twenty seventh of November, Cologne again. Twenty ninth of November
RP: Cause it’s difficult to remember the individual ones, [unclear] some of them in here. The most tight one as far as I am concerned was Dresden, that was, very [unclear] choice but that was much later on.
DK: So just, as your role as a flight engineer then, what were your duties on the
RP: Flight engineer was really the second pilot, you sit alongside the pilot and mine, your main job is to look after the engines and keep the fuel running and anything that’s needed in, I’ll show you a picture of the engineer’s panel, that was my domain, you see, with all the [unclear] and then I had to help with take-off and landing, undercarriage and on the flaps, and bomb, what they called?
DK: Bomb doors.
RP: Bomb doors, yeah. And as the pilot takes off, so my hand comes up behind him and takes over with the throttles and likewise coming back, wheels down with the [unclear] bomb doors open, that sort of thing.
DK: So what were you actually trained on then? Was it sort of training at the OTU on the Lancasters as well or?
RP: Yes, I did a short while on two engines at Wellingtons and then Stirlings, there’s the first four-engine bomber and I did the initial training on that and at that time I joined up with the rest of the crew and then we all went over and converted onto Lancasters and it was Lancasters for the rest of the time.
DK: So what was your thoughts of the Lancasters then as an aircraft?
RP: Marvellous, yes, wonderful.
DK: So most of these raids were into Germany, aren’t they?
RP: Yes, the only one that wasn’t in Germany was to a place called West Kapelle, in Holland, all the rest were Germany.
DK: So were there any occasions when you, the aircraft was damaged at all [unclear]
RP: Yes, this one here and you’ll see, we were diverted to Dishforth I think, somewhere from Scarborough and we had to, we lost an engine over the target and we couldn’t maintain height and we were coming down slowly but not enough power to maintain our course and a Mustang came along [unclear] and escorting us back across the Channel. And we landed at St Eval in Cornwall and we had to leave the plane behind then because it was too badly damaged.
DK: So had that been hit by flak or [unclear]?
RP: Yes, which had caused damage to the engine which made unsearchable [unclear]
DK: What were your thoughts when you saw a Mustang flying alongside?
RP: Was jolly relieved but I mean, he came down on us, I think he was American, and as we got to St Eval as we were going round he just gave us a two fingers and off he went, we never did know who he was [unclear] at all.
DK: Were you ever attacked by German fighters or?
RP: Oh yes, there were several cases where we were damaged by fighters but most damage was by flak, actually. We were quite fortunate there’s one occasion when the windscreen was smashed and a piece of shrapnel came right through my strap, you know, we had the straps on, but we never did find it,
DK: So it was forty altogether then?
RP: Yes, I’ll tell you the story about the last trip. The commanding officer of our squadron wasn’t very popular and we used to call him ‘The Vicar’, although he’s very experienced pilot, perhaps I shouldn’t say all this.
DK: No, it’s ok [laughs]. What goes public we’ll decide afterwards.
RP: I see. Anyway he said at briefing, “Today chaps it’s Flight Lieutenant Klenner’s last trip and when you get back, you’ll have to be on your best behaviour because we are expecting some visitor and also being the fortieth operation, Klenner will be leading the squadron.” Well, we always used to hate flying in ‘Vic’ formation nobody would ever do it. Anyway we went to the last trip to Essen [unclear] but as soon as we left the target the whole squadron formated (sic) up in ‘Vics’, never ever done it before [unclear]. Something I will never ever forget. I’ll remember that.
DK: So how come you ended up doing forty operations then when the tour was, I think, thirty and then 25?
RP: At the end of 1944 was the Battle of the Bulge, when the German forces broke back through the American sector and we were short of aircrews, the message came through, “We are short of aircrews and aircraft, you will have to do another five operations”. So, we moaned and groaned about it. Anyway, we can’t do anything about it. Carried on did the 35, the same thing happened, “Sorry, we are still short you’ll have to go on and do forty.”
“Oh! No!” Leslie says and he applied to leave straight away, some leave, anyway he came back and then do the other last 5 to forty and the day we got back from that, they rescinded the order, and it went back to normal.
DK: You/d done 40 by then.
RP: Yeah.
DK: So your last operation was March 11th to Essen.
RP: That’s right.
US: [unclear]
RP: Yeah, Duisburg
US: [unclear]
DK: I’ll tell you, I’ll just turn the recorder off for a moment cause.
RP: Witten was another place which was pretty hairy but apart from telling you that with the flak bursts and the [unclear] dodging about when you are flying over the target this is little more light and say and just
DK: So just going back to your training a little bit and when you were flying the Stirlings, what was your thought about those aircraft?
RP: They were awkward, slow aircraft, they wouldn’t fly very high and in fact we [unclear] one off in the, what was that, west [unclear], there was a short runway and I think George was trying to get down to meet his WAAF friend in no time and instead of going round again, he shortcut and we landed in a ditch and whipped the wheels right off. But that’s the only real time [unclear]
DK: What about the Wellingtons before that
RP: The Wellingtons was really, as far as I was, only to get used to flying and, it was just about a couple of weeks [unclear].
DK: So you are quite pleased you never did any operations in the Stirlings?
RP: Oh yes, yes, well, they were getting, this time, you see, was getting on towards the end of 1944 and they were getting a bit obsolete.
DK: Yeah.
RP: Yeah. As far as the flight engineer training, that was mostly done at St Athans in Wales, yeah, and well, it was quite separate from, they were all flight engineers down there, that’s what you’d learn.
DK: So what form of training did it, cause you obviously said you weren’t from an engineering background, was it really quite basic to start with?
RP: It was a matter of lectures mostly and studying the
DK: That’s the flight engineer’s notes for Lancaster aircraft.
RP: Yes. That’s mostly ground training, getting used to the engines and the equipment and pictures in the aircraft
DK: So just [unclear], that was your number there then.
RP: Yes.
DK: 300
RP: 5095, yes.
DK: So, number one hundred entry St Athan.
RP: Yes.
DK: So this book is issued by [unclear], is it?
RP: Yes, yes.
DK: The tanks.
RP: We spend some time at the Avro factory in Manchester and you see, we learned all these things, [unclear] and all that sort of things, were all the procedures.
DK: So that’s the drill before taxiing.
RP: Yes.
DK: Drill [unclear] action immediately before take-off. Do you think you could still do that now?
RP: No. I can’t even, I can’t read, when I read them, I can’t even remember them, no.
DK: This is quite a, quite detailed, isn’t it, with your cutaways,
RP: Yes, it was a six month course, I think,
DK: So, you’d be standing in the cockpit there then.
RP: Yes, that’s right. Right next to the pilot.
DK: So, did you, I’ve always wondered what the arrangement was there in the Lancaster because did you actually have a seat or were you standing?
RP: There was a little [unclear] a small deck chair type of thing and it was clipped onto the side of the aircraft and then you bring it over and clip it by the undercarriage and just clip on and just like a small deckchair
DK: So just a piece of canvas, basically.
RP: Piece of canvas, yeah, yeah.
DK: So, how long were you sitting on that for then? Longest operation?
RP: You don’t sit very long, there was always something to do, keep an eye on the engines and anything else. And another thing, cause if the bomb aimer was working with the navigator, he would be behind me as well, there wouldn’t be too much space. And also if we were carrying what we call a dicky pilot, he would want to sit in my seat.
DK: So, how often did you carry the second pilot then?
RP: Oh, three or four times, I suppose, yeah. But we had one occasion where he was rather a bit blusterous, young officer type and before we took off, he questioned us all as to what we did on the aircraft so we all [unclear] him and coming back Diggs, the engineer said, the pilot said, he always had an occasion to fly low when he could, well, he frightened the life out of this dicky pilot coming back and so much so that I think he walked away and didn’t speak to us anymore [laughs].
DK: So what rank was your pilot then, was he
RP: Well, he finished up as a flight lieutenant but when we all first joined he was a sergeant.
DK: Right. How did that work then with the pilot being a sergeant and then still having officers around him?
RP: Well, in our case that tended to split the crew up a little bit when he became an officer but it was an occasion when he tried to smuggle himself into the sergeants mess for a dance and of course the CO caught him [laughs].
DK: I suppose that was a bit difficult when you couldn’t sort of socialize together.
RP: Yeah, well, he was a typical Ozzie so he didn’t [unclear] for anybody.
DK: I just make sure the tape is ok. So, can I have another look at the logbook?
RP: Yeah.
DK: Most of your operations, were they in the same Lancaster or [unclear]
RP: [unclear]
DK: J
RP: Yes, J.
DK: J, A.
RP: J, A most of them were in A. And
DK: And that’s what there’s a picture of in the book.
RP: Yes, yeah. And the last one was K King. This is the navigator’s logbook, not navigator’s, bomb aimer’s.
DK: Alright. So that was your bomb aimers.
RP: Yes, yes. That shows all his training and
DK: Oh, alright, so he’s, so Tripp then was with the Royal Canadian Airforce.
RP: I don’t know, he was trained in Canada but he [unclear]
DK: I see, alright, ok. And it’s him who has written the book.
RP: He, I think he’d must have become a pilot but he didn’t make it so he was finished as a bomb aimer.
DK: So I just ask then about February the thirteenth, you got Dresden.
RP: Dresden.
DK: And then the other raids were to Chemnitz.
RP: That’s right. Dresden was about the longest trip we had, does it tell there how many hours they were?
DK: Nine hours thirty.
RP: Nine hours. And it was the most horrendous fires, seeing the target, it was a fire we could see from miles away and the town was well on fire by the time we arrived there.
DK: So you were in the second wave.
RP: Yes, we were tours at the end of the time but I mean apart from, it is difficult to remember but I don’t recall any [unclear] problems I mean there were times when we were all glad to get out as a way we dropped the bombs and stick our nose down and get away as quick as we could and then the same night we went back to the next door place
DK: Chemnitz.
RP: Chemnitz.
DK: So Chemnitz on the full trip.
RP: Yes. And that was when the Russians were breaking through at Chemnitz into Germany and there was a lot of controversy about too much damage being done.
DK: Was anything mentioned about Dresden at the briefing beforehand?
RP: No, just that we are, all our understanding was that the Russians were making a breakthrough and that was to aid them by making ways to help them through.
DK: So you could see the city alight.
RP: Yes, cause that was mostly an incendiary raid and they were sort of all mostly wooden houses I think and it was a huge raid and the Americans they had about three or four that apart from these two trips they would, the Americans were doing two or three times a day as well.
DK: So can you remember what your load would have been there, would that have been incendiaries?
RP: [unclear]
DK: February the 13th 1945.
RP: Dresden, it doesn’t say.
DK: It doesn’t say, no.
RP: [unclear], I’m sorry, no record. That really wasn’t my department, you see, the bomb aimer was in charge of all that.
DK: So, could you perhaps talk through what a normal day in a raid would take place, when you get up in the mornings and
RP: Yes, that would be the normal, call in the morning in time for breakfast and in the normal way after breakfast you would go to your department, the flight engineer’s department and take what orders you were given and when you gonna test your aircraft or anything, special instructions, and then you would look at the board to see what the crews were on duty for the night and then if your name was on the list you know what time to be prepared and you go and get yourself ready for the briefing and there would be a separate briefing for the pilots and the bomb aimers and navigators and then the general briefing for the rest of us. And then there’d be a question of going to the take-off with the rest of the crew, take your equipment on check on the aircraft, previously they would have perhaps done half an hour flight to check everything was in order and in the time of take-off, my job then was to assist with the take-off sitting alongside the pilot and when the green light comes on to take-off, take off the power as we took off we had one aircraft’s called K King used to swing very, very badly and sort of question of pushing one side up more than the other so to keep the aircraft straight but then we would be taking off and the navigator would take over and find your course, you would climb to height and then you joined the rest of the stream. The first trip we did to Duisburg, we were told, was as to be a thousand bomber raid, we went all through the procedure, we took off and after a while Les, the navigator said to the pilot, turn on to such and such a course and we will join the rest of the stream, so he turned on to the course and then after a little while a voice comes from the back of the plane, that’s Harry in the rear turret, this is a very funny thousand bomber raid, I can’t see a soul up here and there wasn’t another aircraft anyway. And so we pressed on and pressed on and after a while the pilot shouted, what’s, what are those few dots up there end? And there was a crew, rest of the stream [unclear] so we managed to catch them up. Our first trip over Germany found us half way opposed to the target on our own [laughs]. And then there would be the, you know, the bombing run [unclear], the bomb aimer would take over and you’re to give the pilot instructions where to go and after the bomb doors are opened and he would then do his run up, left, left, right, right and then bomb’s gone, door’s shut, door’s up and then the navigator would say, course number so and so and so and you’d turn around and come back, by this time there’s when you’re getting all the flak and the disturbance and little puffs of smoke coming up around about and the bomb’s going down from the planes above and all that sort of thing. And generally when you get clear of the target half an hour just a go for the odd fighter and then after another couple of hours you’re getting towards the coast and generally speaking you were clear and back to land.
DK: So what was your feelings once you got back?
RP: Relieved, we would all sit down and when you land, you sort of [unclear] and you sit down [unclear] before you move to get out the aircraft.
DK: So what’s the debriefing then?
RP: Then you go to the debriefing and you’d have to report on what [unclear] the target and the weather and if the results and all that sort of thing, bomb damage and opposition and it was the aircrew breakfast, eggs and bacon.
DK: I bet you looked forward to that [laughs]
RP: Yes, yes.
DK: So did you, after you’ve done your operations and, did you and the crew tend to stick together and [unclear]
RP: Yes, we did, yes.
DK: Any pubs you went to?
RP: Yes, the one at Chedburgh was called The Greyhound, I used to drink them dry
US: [unclear]
RP: Yes, and then, actually we didn’t, we didn’t go out too much, there wasn’t a lot of time, we are talking about cramming in forty operations between September and 11th of March.
DK: I was gonna say yes, it’s very busy at that period.
RP: Yes.
DK: So your aircraft then was one of the, I noticed in the book, the G-H markings?
RP: Yes.
DK: So was that for daylight operations then? The G-H radar?
RP: Yes, yeah, and as you said, you had the marking on the tail, oh, it’s not on that one, and then you had two followers when you dropped your bombs, they dropped their bombs, that’s because we bombed through cloud, you see.
DK: So that’s the G-H leader with the markings on the tail, they were bombing when you did.
RP: That’s right, yes.
DK: You see the two aircraft following.
RP: Yes, yeah.
DK: So after your forty operations then, what happened to you then?
RP: I became an instructor at a school to teach other people to be instructors, that was at Silverstone, which now of course is a racetrack.
DK: And was that on Lancasters as well?
RP: That was on Lancasters, yes. After the fortieth operation when we all broke up and went our separate ways, I swear I just can’t remember several weeks, you know, what I did, where I went, or did anything.
DK: You think that was perhaps down to stress and
RP: Just stress and relief, yes, but as I say, I was still less than twenty years old, was the youngest of the crew.
DK: So, did you stay in touch with your crew then after that
RP: Yes, we had several reunions that we did and on one occasion we did something like this for a German television program but I never did get to see it.
DK: Ah, alright. Was it ever shown?
RP: It was shown, yes, I heard people have seen it but I didn’t see it myself.
DK: I’ve just turned that off again. So, the Dresden raid.
RP: [unclear] anything try to find it, can you? Here we are, this is Dresden, [unclear] in another book but anyway on the Dresden raid there was a lot of controversy about unnecessary damage and Miles Tripp said quite openly that he deliberately missed the target because he thought there was just too much, I thought that was in here, somewhere.
DK: Page 79, sir. Dresden raid, bombing of Dresden.
RP: [unclear] that must have been another book, anyway he got in trouble about that, he said that he felt unhappy about the raid and he dropped his bombs a long way away from the target, I thought it was in here somewhere, but nobody ever proved that
DK: I see if I can see this, [sneezes] excuse me, chapter ten, chapter nine mentions
RP: That’s right.
DK: Yeah.
RP: Well, you see, we, Harry the Jamaican, seemed to be able to forecast where we were going before anybody knew anything about it and it, you know, with these Jamaican people, they sometimes are a bit of a sort of clairvoyant and people used to remark, how is it you know, Harry, where we are going? I don’t know, he says, I’m just guessing at but they got to the stage where they tried to test him on it and they went to check where the stream was going and then came back to ask Harry where he thought we were going and then he realised that they were testing him and he wasn’t very happy about it. And, it’s all in here, somewhere.
DK: Do you think he’d have his premonitions or?
RP: No, I think [unclear], I’m sure it’s in here somewhere, yes, something but it was one of those rare mornings in November when the sky is completely blue and there is a false warmth in the air as though spring managed to bypass winter. Harry and I strolled for a small pine wood near the briefing room, kicking stones with our flying boots, without any [unclear], without any preamble he said, last night I dreamed of standing by a tombstone of an old friend, someone who’d been killed in an air crash when I was in Canada, it hadn’t been long before he appeared and held out his hand to greet me I don’t like that sort of dream and there was another occasion when he virtually refused to fly, he wouldn’t get in the plane and as it happened, he, the trip was cancelled but he got the premonition in his line that he wouldn’t fly that particular night and they tried to test him but that wasn’t very successful.
DK: [unclear] Dresden took off at 21.40, [unclear] Dresden.
RP: I’m sure he said somewhere about
DK: Yeah.
RP: [unclear]
DK: He said. There’s, page 85, he says, I told Dig to turn to starboard to the south of the city, he swung the aircraft away from the heart of the inferno and when we were just beyond the fringe of the fires, I pressed the bomb release, I hoped the load would fall in open country and page 85.
RP: Yes.
DK: I couldn’t forget what we’ve been told at briefing, all the old newsreel of the German dive-bombing. Here.
RP: Yeah.
DK: So when you got back then, was it questioned where you’d bombed then?
RP: No, this, this all came up later on, I think. that’s right, he said that when we got to the target there was no, no markers and he said, there was no sign from the master bomber and there were no flares marking the target.
DK: So how do you look back on that now, then?
RP: No, that’s all gone, yeah. In retrospect, it was at this point I became something like mercenary, just a night trip, the quiver of outrage at the briefing for Dresden dropping the bombs clear of the, in the hope that they would fall harmlessly in fields was a last gesture to an ideal of common humanity. To be honest, I’m not sure which I find more distasteful, actually the idea of bombing refugees or the idea that the Allies were bombing refugees it was all right but when the Germans bombed refugees it was all wrong.
DK: So that’s from, it’s just for the recording, that’s a quote from Miles Tripp book, page 89.
RP: That’s right, page 89, yeah.
DK: So he obviously had even then concerns, didn’t he? Did he, did you sort of talk about it after the war at all or as you say, it was just
RP: Well, I suppose half a dozen times we met after the war
US: Oh yes, yeah.
RP: So, that wasn’t really the occasion to, talk about that sort of thing.
DK: No, no.
US: Then we went down to see him
RP: Yes, yes.
DK: So, whereabouts was he living then?
RP: Barnet
US: Histon, Hertfordshire.
RP: Hartfield.
US: Hartfield, yes.
DK: So, has he passed away quite recently or?
RP: It was a few years ago, at that time when we were flying he’s, he was going with a WAAF in the control tower and I think they got married, didn’t he, eventually but and at normal times we had, he used to, during the times we weren’t flying, he’d go to stay at the Angel hotel, where his lady friend but there were times where we had to rush out and get him back in time and we had two or three old motorbikes in the crew then, we used to run on a hundred octane and we had to chase him and bring him back.
US: It’s going back then
DK: Ok, well that’s, [unclear] oh, thanks very much for that, that’s very good. So was there a big fuss made of the fortieth operation?
RP: Oh yes, yeah, and the annoying thing was that, when the squadron was disbanded shortly after the war, everything was destroyed, I’ve never been able to find anything of the squadron records of 218.
DK: No?
RP: And I’ve never found anything about people happen to do more than thirty operations.
DK: Yeah. I mean, it is unusual but, I’ve met people who have done like sixty or more operations in two tours.
RP: That’s right yeah.
DK: Not seen [unclear] like that.
RP: But the thing about this is in less than six months.
DK: Yeah.
RP: [unclear]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ray Parke. One
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AParkeRG161019
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:46:13 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Ray Parke worked on the railway before joining the RAF in 1943. Remembers flying forty operations as a flight engineer with 218 Squadron by the time he was twenty. Tells about operations on Essen and the Ruhr. Discusses the Dresden operation, giving a vivid first-hand account of it; tells of how Miles Tripp, the bomb aimer, expressed doubts about the operation and tried to drop the bombload away from the target. Remembers his first operation on Duisburg and the last one, both being thousand bomber attacks. Tells of his crew members: Harry McCalla, the Jamaican rear gunner, who was rumoured to possess clairvoyant abilities. Mentions becoming an instructor at RAF Silverstone, after his fortieth operation.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
England--Northamptonshire
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Stuttgart
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
218 Squadron
African heritage
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
displaced person
flight engineer
Gee
Lancaster
military service conditions
Operational Training Unit
P-51
perception of bombing war
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Methwold
RAF Silverstone
RAF St Athan
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1064/46017/PParkeRG2303.2.jpg
adbb73f2c923457c0fbe5913fb632557
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1064/46017/AParkeRG230330.2.mp3
1a995556537bd9a75addbb03c8306350
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Parke, Ray
Ray G Parke
R G Parke
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Ray Parke (b. 1925, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 218 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Parke, RG
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DW: If you want to grab a cup of tea soon.
RP: Yeah.
DW: They’re really quite good here so —
DK: Ok.
DW: If I just leave that will be for that reason.
DK: Ok. So, if I just introduce myself it’s David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre interviewing Ray Parke on the, where are we? The 30th of March 2023 and with me is Samantha [Podmore].
SP: That’s right.
DK: And Dale Wiseman. So, I’ll put that there. If you just, just speak normally. If I keep looking down I’m just making sure that the recording device is working.
RP: Hmm.
DK: Now the first thing I wanted to ask you. I understand in the last few weeks you went to Duxford.
RP: Yes.
DK: How, how was that?
RP: I was just telling Samantha today it was a wonderful trip. I had been to Duxford many many years ago but that was a marvellous day.
DK: And I see here on the photo here you went aboard the Lancaster there.
RP: That’s right. Not many people are allowed to do that.
DK: Did they, did they make a bit of a fuss of you at the museum?
RP: Not half, didn’t they? Yes. They did. Yeah.
DK: So, so what, was that your first time back on a Lancaster then?
RP: I’ve been to the one at East Kirkby.
DK: Right.
RP: Obviously a bit longer ago. Yeah. Yeah. But that was the earliest. Yeah.
DK: And, and what was it like going on board?
RP: I found it difficult to recognise. I couldn’t work out behind the main spar there was a great dip down.
DK: Right.
RP: Where the bomb bay is. I’m not sure that was on the same on my plane.
DK: So you couldn’t remember the dip there.
RP: No.
DK: They did let you go up the front then did they?
RP: No. No. No.
DK: No.
RP: No.
DK: Because it’s a bit, a bit difficult getting over the main spar.
RP: That’s right. Yes. Well it always was during the war [laughs] to get up.
DK: So did it kind of bring back sort of memories for you then?
RP: Oh yes. Of course, that and the East Kirkby were the times I’ve been back on a Lancaster. Yes.
DK: And, and, and hopefully they were, they were very good to you there then?
RP: Yes. First class treatment. Yes.
DK: Because when I saw you a few years ago I didn’t really know about Miles Tripp and it’s only recently I read the book and I was wondering had you, had you read his previous book?
RP: Yes. Yes.
DK: “Facing the Windsock.”
RP: Yes. And that, that preceded –
DK: Yeah.
RP: “The Eighth Passenger.”
DK: And what did you think of, of his book?
RP: Yeah.
DK: His first one.
RP: It’s a long time since I read it. I enjoyed it. Yes.
DK: Because people aren’t mentioned in it are they? You’re –
RP: No. No.
DK: Probably in it.
RP: No.
DK: Did you –
RP: No. That was a bit more fictional that one.
DK: Right. Did you recognise yourself then in any of it then at all?
RP: Well, I can’t remember now. No.
DK: Because I hadn’t realised Miles Tripp, he went on to become a crime writer.
RP: Yes, indeed. He was the chairman of the Crime Writer’s Association.
DK: Oh. Ok. Because how, how did you, how did you get on with Miles on your –?
RP: That was a love hate relationship. I was a country boy and he was a public schoolboy [laughs]
DK: And was it, was he good as a bomb aimer though was he? Or —?
RP: Oh yes. He was well trained. Yes. Yeah.
DK: Because reading –
RP: He started off, he’d trained to be a pilot of course at first in Canada but then he had to change and then of course the observers got more or less redundant didn’t they and they had to become bomb aimers.
DK: And that, that’s how. What about yourself? How did you become the flight engineer then?
RP: When I joined the Air Force I, my first interview was at St Athans and they said, ‘What do you want to be?’ I said, ‘Well, I want to be in the aircrew.’ So I said I would be a, ‘I’ll be a gunner.’ They said, ‘You can’t. You’re too fat.’ So –
DK: Charming.
RP: I said, ‘Well, I’ll do signals then.’ ‘Oh no. That’s too complicated for me.’ You see. ‘Well, there’s flight engineer.’ I said, ‘Yes. Alright.’ Fine to that. So he said, ‘What do you know about engines?’ No. I was eighteen year old. I’d never had a motorbike or anything like that. And he said, ‘Well, describe a cotter pin.’ So I described one on a bicycle and he said, ‘Alright. You’re in.’ [laughs]
DK: Because I find it quite remarkable that you’d completed forty operations before you were twenty.
RP: Yes.
DK: So that, that was in a very short space of time.
RP: Yes.
DK: So the period you had with your crew on operations and training was actually quite —
RP: Very intense it was.
DK: Intense.
RP: We lived in each other’s pockets all the time. We were together. All the time together except when the pilot became a commissioned officer and then devolved to the Officer’s Mess but apart from that all the time.
DK: Because reading, “The Eighth Passenger,” Miles seemed to go to great lengths to get in touch with you all after the war.
RP: That’s right. Yes.
DK: How did you feel when he got in touch with you all some years later?
RP: Completely surprised. I mean we all swore when we left at the end of the war we, that we would keep in touch and see each other but we never did. And then of course he finally turned up and did that.
DK: Yeah. Did, did he write to you then? Because there was a newspaper campaign wasn’t there or —
RP: No. His story was that one of our crew, George Bell, the wireless operator was a police inspector at Henley.
DK: Ah.
RP: And somehow or other Mike must have met him and he said, ‘Well, I live in Norwich. I’ll see if I can find a man called Ray Parke.’ And later on the local evening news said, ‘Where is Ray Parke?’ And of course, that started it up and they traced me and he came back and then we had an interview in the garden and wrote the book together.
DK: So he came to see you at your, your home then.
RP: Yes. Yes. And that I was confusing that with [unclear]
DK: Oh.
RP: It was much earlier than that.
DK: That, that was a few years later.
RP: Yes. Yeah.
DK: So what, what was it like seeing Miles after all those years?
RP: Well, by that time of course we were best of friends.
DK: Oh. I was going to say —
RP: And he’s a very clever chap and he is a barrister. Yes.
DK: Did you get that he, he writes in his book that he met the crew individually. Did you all ever meet up again as a whole crew?
RP: Yes. Yes. We all met up in Bury St Edmunds and we were interviewed by German TV.
DK: Oh right.
RP: And that was the last time I saw the whole crew together.
DK: Can you remember roughly what year that would have been?
RP: No. I can’t. No.
DW: I have —
RP: I’ve no idea.
DW: Ray, has got a photograph of that.
RP: Have I?
DW: Which we, I can get sent to you.
RP: Have I got a photograph of that?
DW: You have. Yeah. Yeah, because you all look a bit older.
[laughter]
DW: Yeah.
RP: Ah yes. You’re, you’re probably thinking of another one in Thetford.
DW: Oh, there was another. So there was another. Oh sorry. I thought it was just one occasion.
RP: Well, that was a weekend when I remember it was Harry McCalla and Les Walker and myself but I think that was just a few —
DW: Oh, I thought. Well, alright. I’ll check my library.
RP: Yeah.
DK: So, you’re, you’re, can you remember the name of your pilot —
RP: Do I?
DK: The pilot. The name of your pilot?
RP: George Klenner.
DK: And, and did he come over from Australia to meet you all?
RP: He did indeed. Yes. And he showed us his Distinguished Flying Cross.
DK: Oh right. So what, what was it like meeting them all again in later years?
RP: That was very good. I was still at work actually and I had sort of to leave work early to get down to Bury, Bury St Edmunds to meet them up and they, by the time I’d arrived they were all sitting around a dinner table.
DK: They’d started without you had they?
RP: That’s right.
DK: But your, your, so your relationship with Miles got a lot better then after that would you say?
RP: That’s right. It was all sort of cat and dog.
DK: Yeah.
RP: Initially.
DK: Yeah.
RP: But —
DK: What, one of the interesting things I find is your rear gunner Harry was from Jamaica.
RP: Jamaica.
DK: I’ve, I’ve actually been working on a project for the museum at East Kirkby of aircrew who served in the Caribbean or came from the Caribbean or West Indies.
RP: That’s right, I’ve read one or two cases about that in the paper. Yes.
DK: Yeah. How did you get on with, with Harry because he must have been —
RP: Harry was a fine gentleman. He was the oldest member of the crew and he really was a very nice chap.
DK: Did you find it difficult at all? The fact he was come from the Caribbean and was living in or serving in England I should say.
RP: I never. No one said anything about that.
DK: No. But he, I see in the book that he remained in London.
RP: That’s right.
DK: He didn’t, he didn’t actually go back.
RP: And he worked at the Battersea Power Station. Engineer I think. And married a Swiss girl.
DK: Oh right.
RP: I went up to see him a couple of times. We wrote. We corresponded together.
DK: There’s, in the book there’s claims that he was a bit of a clairvoyant. He knew what your target was going to be.
RP: Yes. Yes. And that rather upset him I’m afraid. It was quite uncanny. You know, we would say jokily, ‘Where do you think we’re going today?’ And he would say something which was not very far off you know. And then afterward people used to say, ‘Well, how did he know that?’ Of course, the poor chap didn’t really know.
DW: So there was no truth in it then.
RP: No.
DW: No truth in the idea that he knew.
RP: Well, that did happen. Yes.
DW: Yeah, there was –
RP: Yeah. And he would call us a lot of rotters or something.
DK: So just going back a little bit we were talking last time all those years ago about your operations. You’d done thirty and it’s a bit strange that you ended up doing forty. How did, how did that actually come about?
RP: Yes. It was just in Christmas 1944, the Battle of the Bulge and the order came around that if by a certain date in December you had completed less than twenty five trips you would be obliged to carry on and do another five trips to thirty five. So we said well bugger that [laughs] and we put in for some leave and got some leave [laughs] and but then we come back and had to do it. And we went on and then as we were approaching thirty five, around about thirty three, ‘Sorry chaps, the situation hasn’t changed. We’re still short of pilots. Still short of aircraft. Forty trips.’ [pause] And very quickly after that we completed the extra five in a very few days and we did the forty trips and the day or so after we arrived back they said, ‘The order is rescinded and they’ve gone back to thirty.’ There was a story about that.
DW: Wrong place. Wrong time.
SP: Yeah.
RP: Did you ever read that article called, “Beware of the Vicar,”?
DK: No. No.
RP: Our commanding officer. Well, we didn’t like him very much and he wasn’t very popular and everybody called him the vicar. And I only learned just a month or six weeks ago this story. I’d never heard it before but it seemed that he and his flight commander, a man named John Bishop, a squadron leader fell out because he thought the CO was treating his younger aircrew too hard. You see we were flying between thirty five and forty trips in about a week. You know, quite close together and —
SP: Thirty to forty [unclear]
RP: I didn’t know but suddenly that –
DW: Yeah, that is quick [unclear]
SP: Wow.
RP: Well, I’m saying perhaps a fortnight. Yeah. And I didn’t know that and I didn’t know but I’ve now found out that that squadron leader was posted away with his crew and they did go on to complete their thirty five trips as it was to them with another squadron. But the CO never recognised him in any way as a distinguished pilot. Many many flights. And neither he nor his crew got a [unclear]
DK: Ah.
RP: No. And then it occurred to me by reading that story well that must have been going on at the time I was there. You know. As I say seventy years later I found that out.
DK: Wow. Because your, your pilot got the DFC didn’t he?
RP: Yes.
DK: And George Bell the DFM.
RP: Yes. And Les Walker got the DFM. Yeah.
DK: But nothing for your good self?
RP: Hmmn?
DK: No, no, nothing for your good self.
RP: No. No. Or our two gunners or –
DW: What did you get a few years ago, Ray? Your grandson sorted out.
RP: Oh, I got the French Legion of Honour.
DK: Oh right. Oh wow.
RP: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: That’s the top. Top French award. That’s recognition from the French isn’t it?
RP: Yes. Yes.
DK: Yeah.
RP: That’s my photograph.
DK: Wow. Well, that’s, that’s nice to be acknowledged by our —
RP: Yeah.
DK: By our allies, isn’t it.
DW: So he now has that pinned with the others don’t you?
DK: Yeah.
RP: That’s right.
DW: You’ve got your roll now haven’t you. You’ve got your roll now haven’t you?
RP: Yeah.
DW: Well done.
DK: You would say just a little bit about your, your fortieth trip because I think it was a bit special wasn’t it?
RP: Yes. It was special and not [pause] the CO in the previous week came up to the pilot and said, ‘Look. You’re coming up to your fortieth trip. I’ll try and pick out a nice easy one for you.’ And so we thought oh good. That would be a good idea. But when we got on the occasion of the briefing for that trip we went in and we saw the big red line going right across Europe into Essen. Now, that was one of the worst. That was one of the heaviest defended places in Germany apart from Berlin and we’d had lots of trouble there in, on the flights and so we thought rather a dirty trick and he said, ‘Well, I’m sorry. They changed the target at the last minute and you had to go.’ But in the event we got there and got to bombing and he said, ‘Now when you come back,’ he said, ‘I want you to be on your best behaviour because I’ve got lots of people who want to meet you.’ And he said, ‘I want a good return.’ We used to hate flying in formation but, I’m sorry [pause] coming back I looked at the back of the aircraft and there was the whole squadron in tight formation following [little old me] [unclear] I had to finish looking at that.
DK: That was, that was quite, quite, must have been quite spectacular for you then. A bit of, a bit of acknowledgement.
RP: So the pilot said well [unclear] this pilot and instead of we got the message pancake. Instead of pancake he went around again because we were on a different aircraft that day and our flight crew was standing on the dispersal for our normal aircraft and that crew used to see us off every day. Coming, every day we came back. So he deliberately flew over that crew. [unclear] And then we landed and there was all the big wigs. MPs with medals and ribbons and all sorts of things.
DK: That must, that must have been quite a moment for you.
RP: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: Ok.
DW: That’s when you had the photograph taken in the book isn’t it?
RP: That’s right. Yeah.
DW: Yeah. Of the crew.
RP: Yeah.
DW: That was taken at that point I understand.
RP: That was taken to the News Chronicle. Yeah.
DW: It was literally spot on to —
DK: Well, that one there.
DW: Yeah.
RP: Yeah. Another one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: You haven’t changed much [laughs]
[pause]
DK: Just going back to Miles’ book again he says, says your pilot was, was quite good at doing a lot of low flying.
RP: Yes. We managed to stop a bus and get the people to run off. We upset a football match. We knocked two old ladies off a bike and so we all, ‘Come on, Dig. You have to stop this. You can’t keep go on like that.’ But he still did that one on the last trip. Yeah.
DK: Was he, was he a good pilot then? Was he?
RP: He was a good, and the funny thing was if ever we’d had a bad trip or something a bit rough particularly Harry, the rear gunner he would say, ‘Dig, that was your best landing. Soft as a feather.’ [laughs] Yeah. There’s always a first [laughs] yeah.
DK: Ok. I’m going to just turn of that for a moment so you can just have a bit of a rest. Just get your thoughts together.
[recording paused]
RP: I was just thinking now how old I would have been but I can’t just work it out for a minute.
DK: Let’s see —
SP: How old are you now, Ray?
RP: Well, I shall be ninety eight next week or next week after.
SP: Ninety?
RP: Ninety eight.
DK: Ninety eight.
SP: Ninety eight next week.
RP: No, a week after. Early in April.
SP: You are in April aren’t you?
RP: Hmmn?
SP: April.
RP: Yeah.
SP: Yeah.
RP: Yeah.
DK: So it was four, five, seven years ago then wasn’t it? Five. Six. Seven. So you’d have been ninety one.
RP: Ninety one. Yeah.
DK: When you, a mere youngster.
RP: Retired dear [laughs]
DK: So talking about after the war what, what was your career after the war then? What did you end up doing?
RP: Learning. Learning a trade. I became a lawyer and that took up most of my time and I did the same job for forty odd years.
DK: Can you remember the name of the company?
RP: Norwich Union.
DK: Oh, right. Oh ok. So your, your whole life has been around Norwich then.
RP: Yes. Yes.
DK: Has it?
RP: Yeah. One of the trips I did with Dale we went to see some cadets in Norwich and one of my office colleagues was there.
DK: Was he?
DW: He was. Yeah.
DK: Oh right.
RP: [I’ve written that down here]
DW: His name was Ray as well, wasn’t it?
RP: Yeah.
DW: Yeah.
RP: Ray Fisher. Yeah.
DW: Yeah.
DK: Presumably you hadn’t seen him for a while then.
RP: No. No.
DK: Oh.
RP: Well, we just didn’t know what. ‘Is that him?’ And he was looking at me, ‘Is that him?’ You know. And it was.
DW: And you went to that ATC as well, didn’t you?
RP: Yes.
DW: Years ago.
RP: Yes, I did. I went and joined an ATC. Yeah.
DW: Yeah.
DK: So you’ve been getting out and about then. You’ve been to Duxford ATC.
RP: Yes.
DK: Did you, did you do a Remembrance Service?
RP: Yes. Oh yes. They always treated me like a prince.
DK: Good.
RP: I was in a wheelchair and in front of the, leading all the procession.
DW: And you went to Thorpe St Andrew church where you used to go didn’t you?
RP: That’s right. Yeah. Where I was in the choir.
DW: He used to be in the choir at Thorpe St Andrew church so because Ray used to live on the same road as the church but —
DK: Yeah.
DW: But probably a good sort of good fifteen minute walk didn’t you?
RP: Yeah. Yeah.
DW: From the church. So you see he was our guest for the day and you’ll be the guest again this year, Ray. So it will be [unclear] We head towards November the 12th this year. Right. Even, even the vicar made a fuss of you.
RP: Yes [laughs] and I understand that was unusual [laughs]
DK: Talking of the low flying I think its how he mentions your return to St Eval. Do you remember that?
RP: Yes. I do indeed.
DK: What, what actually happened then? Can you tell a little bit about that?
RP: We’d been to Saarbrücken and we lost an engine but somehow or other we carried on and bombed and came away after the target. But because we’d lost an engine we’d been losing height and everybody was leaving us behind so we were more or less on our own and halfway through France an American Mustang came and settled down right inside and escorted us back to the coast. But by this time we’d had a message. East Anglia is closed. Every plane, it was quite a large raid was diverted to elsewhere and we were diverted to a place called St Eval.
DK: Is it, it’s in Devon isn’t it?
RP: Cornwall.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
RP: Just on the peninsula down there.
DK: Yeah.
RP: Not far from St Ives. But there was a strong wind blowing and we were drifting almost back out in to the Atlantic. But we just pressed on and everybody was all standing up in the cockpit peering out, you know. Can we see land? And eventually we could see these cliffs coming up and well we did just manage to scrape over but forty aircraft were trying to get in at the same time.
DK: Wow.
RP: So you can imagine what that was like. It took us four times to go around. Every time we were ordered to pancake somebody would come in underneath and get in first so we’d go around again. That meant I had to halt the engines and all this. Everything. And four times that happened and the last time he said ‘Well, I’m coming in. Anything’s going to happen you can do what you like.’ So they said, ‘Pancake.’ And we did pancake and we landed there.
DK: So a bit of a, a bit of relief when you got down then.
RP: Oh yeah. That was. That was a big relief yeah. It was one of those things when you land everything goes quiet. The engine switches off and you sit there [breathing] you know. Like that. And then you come around and it’s all finished now. But I will always remember that.
DK: It must have been a real relief when you got back.
RP: Yes. Yeah.
DK: Ok. Well, I’ll just stop there Ray so you can have a —
[recording paused]
SP: And how did you get back from St Eval and Dishforth?
RP: Well, you spent a few days down there and somebody came. We had to leave the plane behind.
SP: Right.
RP: So it was two or three days later somebody came and picked us up and brought us back.
SP: Ok. So you got to see a bit of the UK as well. Not just Norfolk.
RP: Not really. You know you’re sort of on the airport and you can’t go out. You can’t do anything.
SP: Ok.
DK: And did you and your crew socialise much? Did you go to pubs and —
RP: Oh yes. Yes. We, we got on well with the manager of the Woolpack at a village close to Bury St Edmunds. So much so that he used to save the beer for us to the chagrin of his real customers [laughs] and they didn’t like it because they were giving us their beer.
DK: I think, I think you deserved the beer.
RP: Yeah.
[recording paused]
RP: We were novices and the first trip turned out to be to Duisburg in Germany and they said this is going to be a thousand bomber raid. So of course we had to jump in and we took off and then we had to call around to pick up other aircraft.
DK: Yeah.
RP: For this thousand raid and collect them and then go on to France. And so we got halfway across France and, and somebody got up and looked in the astrodome and they said, ‘You know,’ he said, ‘I thought there was supposed to be a thousand bombers about here.’ And we couldn’t see a thing. And there we were. Eighteen year old lost in Germany in the darkest, in the middle of the war. But we managed to get around and finished it and came back.
DK: Was that a bit of a —
[pause]
DK: I don’t like to use the word but was that a bit of an error by the navigator? I mean he obviously —
RP: Yes. Yes.
DK: Knew and —
RP: That and what he, I think he complained about being given the wrong winds.
DK: Right.
RP: Yeah. But he was [lower] Actually, he was the second navigator. The first one had to be changed and this Les turned out to be an excellent chap in the end. But on his first trip obviously he managed to get lost.
DK: Well, if he’d been given the wrong winds it’s not actually his fault.
RP: That’s right.
DK: Is it?
RP: No.
DK: It’s —
RP: No. No.
DK: He was just acting in good faith.
RP: So there was me. Eighteen years old. Never been further than London and there I was lost in the middle of Germany.
DK: I guess, I guess you sort of grow up quickly then don’t you? It’s —
RP: Yes.
DK: I could imagine eighteen year olds now doing what you did.
RP: Well, of course I was the baby of the crew. Seventeen and a half and it was all a bit of an adventure really.
SP: You mentioned the Woolpack just now. The pub. I think I might have found it, Ray.
DK: Oh, is it still there?
SP: It might still be there.
RP: What’s the name of the village?
DK: Is it in Chedburgh.
SP: No. It’s, the name of the village is Fornham St Martin.
RP: Pardon?
SP: Fornham St Martin.
RP: No.
SP: Not that one. Oh.
DW: Are you full time then for the Bomber Command? Or what’s, what’s the set up?
DK: Oh I only doing these when, when they when ask me to.
SP: It’s the one you brought up. The Woolpack near Bury St Edmunds. Is that —
DW: So are you like actually, are you employed then or or —
[recording paused]
DK: So, what, what’s it like seeing your name in print?
RP: Well, ever since the book of course, yeah.
DK: So you, you’re used to this then. Fame. Fame in a book.
RP: Well, I do due to these people.
DK: So, your friend David Dowe then.
RP: Yes.
DK: Can you say a little bit about him.
RP: Yes. We went to school together and he was about a couple of months older than me and you know just the usual pals. School pals. And then suddenly off he went to the Air Force and I learned later that he went to train as a flight engineer and was flying the Lancasters and so I started to follow and just followed him on. Yeah.
DW: There was a very special Remembrance last year that you could, you could honour him for the first time wasn’t it, Ray?
RP: That’s right. And I mean —
DW: You were able to —
RP: Met some of his family.
DK: Oh right.
DW: Yeah. Yeah, we had one or two events. We had a book launch.
DK: Yeah.
DW: And you met Ray, David’s niece, didn’t you?
RP: Yeah.
DK: So he, he was lost on operations was he?
RP: Yes. He was with an Australian crew I think. They all survived except one person. I think one survived didn’t he?
DW: One person survived.
RP: Yeah.
DW: And the Germans picked him up and he was a prisoner of war.
RP: Yes. Yeah.
DW: Yeah.
RP: So it was sort of through him that you didn’t fancy the Army or the Navy then.
RP: No. Well, we were the Brylcreem boys you see and that was the thing to do for a seventeen year old.
DK: Did the, did the girls like the uniform?
RP: Oh, not half. Talking about that when I was stationed at Methwold the girls used to come up for the dances in the Mess and we got pally with some of them in our crew and they each bought us a silk scarf. And I had that for years and years. Flew with that all over the place. Yeah.
DK: Yeah.
RP: I’ve forgotten the girl’s name.
DK: Have you still got the scarf though?
RP: Not now.
DK: No. You haven’t.
RP: My wife didn’t know what, knew what that was probably [laughs] She liked it.
DW: Tell, tell them about the flight when you went over Thorpe St Andrew and you came over quite low in a Lancaster.
RP: Yeah. We, I think we were [pause] at this pre-squadron and we were just doing a cross country or something and we’d been up to Leeds because George, someone in his family had just got married and so we flew down, down this back passage [laughs] passage and of course they didn’t know what it was and so we carried on and came back to Norwich and I swear I could see my mother’s linen lying in the garden.
SP: He was that low you could see your mother’s washing.
RP: Yeah.
SP: On the line.
RP: I bet that woke a few people up.
SP: I bet it did.
RP: But it couldn’t, couldn’t have been that low really I suppose but —
DW: Because Ray your mum and dad used to run a fish stall, didn’t they?
RP: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.
DW: Where they used to work.
DK: You didn’t, you didn’t fancy going into the family business then.
RP: I, I said to my dad, ‘Shall I come in?’ ‘No. No. No,’ he said. He wouldn’t like that. So I went off separately.
DW: Your brother worked in it didn’t he?
RP: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
DW: Your brother worked in the —
RP: Had his own shops and things. Yeah.
DK: Ok. Well, I don’t want to tire you out too much.
RP: That’s alright.
DK: But can I just ask obviously a few years have gone on since I last saw you but how do you now look back on those years? How do you think about that?
RP: Well, I was there. I’d done it. I really don’t think too much about it. I just realise how lucky I am that I’m still here sort of thing.
DK: Yeah.
RP: And I’ve done nothing more than many hundreds of thousands of people did exactly the same thing.
DK: Oh, there was one other thing I was wanting to ask you. You, you were at one point flying Stirlings weren’t you?
RP: Yes. Yeah.
DK: What, what did you think of the Stirlings?
RP: A big, more like tanks [laughs] and we managed to write one off at West Wratting.
DK: What happened there? Was it —
RP: We’d been on a cross country flight and I got lost as usual. Anyway, on the way back Dig, the pilot said, ‘I’ve got a date to see a WAAF tonight.’ So he hurried up and tried to shortcut this. There was a shortcut and the answer is that he misjudged the land, the runway and he overshot in the end and of course there was a ditch at the end of the runway and of course the Stirling’s wheels stopped in a ditch [laughs] while the Stirling went on.
DK: Was there, was there much damage?
RP: Written off.
DK: Oh right.
SP: [laughs] Yes.
RP: It was a court martial in affect. We got away with it.
DK: Must have been, must have been quite, quite terrifying as you were trying to get out of the thing was it? Or —
RP: I suppose so. Yeah.
DK: Yeah. You moved pretty quickly did you?
RP: Not half.
DK: And Wellingtons as well. I think you were on Wellingtons as well.
RP: I flew in Wellingtons. Yes. Just for a short while because there was only two engines so there was nothing much for me to do.
DK: As a flight engineer then was it a bit complicated with the Stirling you had to do?
RP: Yes. They were different engines for a start and different, well different petrol, different everything. Petrol tank system was completely different and you weren’t even, you didn’t used to sit next to the pilot on a Stirling. You had your own little cubicle.
DK: Oh right. That must have been a bit awkward then. A bit difficult if you’re not near the pilot.
RP: Well, he was just around the corner. I was not far away.
DK: So the positioning for the flight engineer was better on the Lancaster then.
RP: Oh yes. You had got a whole seat sitting alongside each other. The pilot would be there and my hand would be on the accelerator going up there like that.
DK: Ok then. I’ll, I’ll stop you there because —
[recording paused]
RP: That’s, and used to run them on the aircraft field.
SP: Three motorbikes on an aircraft field.
RP: Yeah.
SP: Between the seven of you to get out and about.
RP: Yeah. And poor old Mike Tripp used to live in the Angel Hotel at Bury St Edmunds with his girlfriend and if ever we were put on that alert somebody would have to get in touch with him, ‘Mike. Mike get back quickly.’ And he tried to get back one day and he slipped on the ice with his motorbike and that crashed and that was no good. But somehow or other he got back just in time. Two or three days later there was a policeman coming up the drive. ‘Is your name Miles Tripp? I’ve got your motorbike.’ [laughs] Yeah.
SP: So then you went down to two bikes did you? Is that?
RP: Yeah.
DK: So, RAF Chedburgh itself what, what was the airfield like?
RP: Well, there’s a picture up there.
DK: Yeah.
RP: Yeah.
DK: Was it, was it a bit not much there or —
RP: Not much there. No.
DK: So where were you billeted then? Was it in a Nissen hut or something?
RP: Around about in a, in a Nissen hut. Yes. Yeah.
DK: And that was, what was it the whole crew in one Nissen hut?
RP: At that time, yes. Yeah.
SP: That’s why it was fairly intense living then and working.
RP: Yes, and Mike, Mike Tripp was in charge of the supplies of coal for the tortoise stove and we used to store the coal [laughs] the coal under his bed. He was the scruffiest airman you could ever see.
DK: Was the, was the coal sort of —
RP: Yeah.
DK: Pinched from different places?
RP: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DW: Squirrelled.
DK: Squirrelled. Yeah.
SP: Squirreled away.
DK: So did it get rather cold in these Nissen huts then?
RP: Yes. Yeah. But the worst thing is when you’d come home and go to bed and get up in the morning and then the rest of the beds are empty.
DK: Yeah. [pause] Have you, have you been back to the airfield at all? Or —
RP: Yes. We had that main, that reunion I said at Bury St Edmund. That was around about Chedburgh. We went to Chedburgh.
DK: Right.
RP: For that. Yeah.
DK: So your whole crew went back to the airfield then.
RP: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
DK: That must, that must have brought back a few memories for you.
RP: Yes. That’s right. Yeah. I never saw any of them again after that. Well, only Harry and Mike. Yeah. Paul Songest became an antiques dealer in Cornwall.
SP: Not near St Eval though.
RP: No. I don’t know quite know where. Where it was.
DK: Ok. Well, I’m going to switch this off now. I did put it back on again while you weren’t looking.
[recording paused]
DW: The planes in the sky.
SP: Very noisy.
DK: But as I say Ken, Ken Oatley, I interviewed him. He’s, he’s just turned a hundred and one.
RP: Well, he looks very well [laughs] If I look like that at a hundred and one I shan’t mind.
DK: So he, he was on he was on the Dresden raid with you. He’d have been ahead in the Mosquitoes. He was a navigator.
RP: Yes.
DK: On Mosquitoes.
RP: Yes. Yes. [pause] Actually Miles Tripp got, got in trouble for that. I never really did fully understand but he did. He deliberately missed the target.
DK: He mentions that in his book actually.
RP: Yes.
DK: He says —
RP: Yeah.
DK: He did. Were you aware of that at the time?
RP: No. No. No.
DK: Because he says in his book he didn’t get any confirmation from the Master Bomber.
RP: That’s right.
DK: And he said had he been ordered to he would have followed orders.
RP: He would have done. Yes.
DK: But as he didn’t get the order he —
RP: Yes. Yeah.
DK: Because did you ever talk about that raid at all afterwards?
RP: Well, if we did I really can’t remember it. But I’m sure we must have been done. Of course, that was horrendous. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life.
[pause]
DK: Because you said you appeared on German TV was it?
RP: Well, I never saw the programme.
DK: I’ve been trying to look for that to see if it’s on. On the internet somewhere.
RP: I remember the man coming over. Again, that was in Bury St Edmunds he interviewed us.
DK: Because the only reason I mentioned it Ken Oatley mentioned to me that he appeared on a German TV programme as well. So I’m wondering if you both appeared on the same TV programme in Germany.
RP: Well, I never saw anything of it at all.
DK: I’ll have to, I’ll have to check on that.
RP: Yeah.
DK: See if you’re on the big screen. Well, hopefully if you get your flypast you’re going to have Ray there with you.
RP: Yeah. That would be great wouldn’t it.
DW: Well, it’s he’ll need, he’ll need to be there.
DK: All the, all the staff are coming.
DW: He’s, he’s got a team. He’s got a team around him with two.
SP: An entourage.
DK: Oh right.
DW: Ray and seven others at Duxford. Samantha wasn’t even there.
SP: No.
DW: So that would have been eight.
SP: Yeah.
DW: And he’s got this full team haven’t you?
DK: A team of, a team of sherpas.
DW: Yeah, well just —
SP: I don’t know about that. Groupies I think.
DK: Groupies. Ah. How do you feel when you see the Lancaster flying again?
RP: It gives us shivers and that.
DK: Really.
RP: I don’t know whether you, you hear it first don’t you?
DK: Yeah. No. I do have a claim to fame. I have flown on one so I know what it’s like.
RP: Yeah.
DK: I flew on the Canadian one when it came over to the UK in 2014.
RP: That’s the one they’ve got at East Kirkby, is it?
DK: No. It’s back in Canada now.
RP: Oh right. Yeah.
DK: But the thing I remember when you’re on board is the noise.
RP: Yes.
DK: How did you feel after an operation of seven or eight hours. How?
RP: Well, as I say when you land yeah and you sit there for two or three minutes and don’t move. That was a good [laughs] a good moment that.
DK: I couldn’t, I couldn’t believe the noise it was making as you were inside and it’s flying along.
RP: That’s right. Yeah.
DK: But you’ve got that for —
RP: You’ve got your earphones on.
DK: But you liked the Lancaster then did you?
RP: Oh yes. That was our favourite. HAA-Able.
DW: The one at Duxford is a Canadian one.
DK: Yes.
DW: It is Canadian made. Yeah. It is. So that could be why it’s slightly different.
DK: Could be. Yeah.
DW: There could have just been a slight difference.
RP: Yeah. I I thought on that photograph that seems slightly different to me.
DW: Yeah.
RP: Well, I didn’t recognise the, the aileron controls on that one. That seemed to be quite a substantial bar control and build. I just remember a lot of wires.
DK: Oh.
DW: Well, they had taken a lot of the wiring out.
RP: Yes. That —
DW: A lot of the wiring is missing. So that would, all you’ve got really is the shell.
DK: It is the Canadians did a lot of modifications to them post war so —
RP: Yeah.
DK: You might be looking at post war modifications.
DW: Well, I think that was ’45 ’46 plane. Stuff like that if I’m correct. So it wasn’t —
DK: Do you think even now you could do the job of a flight engineer on a Lancaster or not?
RP: I would just have to sit there and let the pilot take off.
DK: Would you, would you know what to look for in the dials or for the engines?
RP: I had my own little panel down there.
DK: So it was, it was a better set up then the Stirlings then.
RP: I was, I’m talking about low flying. I was bending down reading my gauges and I looked out and there was a tree above me.
DK: Wow.
RP: Oh dear. We made him stop that in the end.
DK: He must, he must have been quite an expert pilot.
RP: He was [unclear] when he chose me for, to join the aircrew you know how you were all put in a hangar and you’d get told and I found myself sitting and waiting and nothing happened. I thought I’d had it and then suddenly this great tall Aussie stood in front of me, ‘Hiya Cobber. Is your name Ray Parke?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ ‘You’re on top of the list are you?’ ‘Yes, that’s me.’ ‘You’re in. Come with me.’ [laughs] Yeah.
DK: He was, it was a good choice though was it? Or [unclear]
RP: Oh, he was a lovely chap, yeah. A lovely chap.
DK: Did you presumably that was the first time you’d met an Australian. Did you find them culturally —
RP: Yes.
DK: A bit different. Or —
RP: That was the first time I met an Australian. Yes.
DK: What did you think of them when you met the Aussies?
RP: Well, brash. Yes. I liked them. I got along well with them. Yeah.
DK: They obviously made good pilots as well.
RP: Yes. He turned out to be a good pilot. He had to learn like the rest of us.
DK: He, he, he didn’t carry on flying after the war then.
RP: Not that I know of. He became a general manager, General Motors manager in Australia. Adelaide I think or something. Yeah.
DK: You never got the chance to go out to Australia to see him then.
RP: Not to see him. I have been to Australia but —
DK: Alright. Ok. We’ll stop there.
DW: That’s lovely. Well —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ray Parke. Two
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-30
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Format
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00:46:45 Audio Recording
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending review
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AParkeRG230330, PParkeRG2303
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
England--Bury St. Edmunds
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Norwich
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Saarbrücken
Wales--Glamorgan
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Ray Parke trained as a flight engineer. During a training flight the pilot wanted to get back to base as soon as possible because he had a date but they were flying a Stirling. The pilot made an error on landing and the wheel stayed in the ditch and the Stirling kept going. The aircraft was a write off. Ray and his crew went on to join 218 Squadron at RAF Chedburgh. He completed forty operations before he was twenty. On their fortieth trip the CO said he would let them have a easy trip for the last one but it turned out to be Essen because it was changed at the last minute. On their first trip they got lost because the navigator had been given the wrong winds. On one operation they had a damaged engine and were losing height when a Mustang appeared and escorted them to the coast. Discusses the Eighth Passenger and Faith is a Windsock, the books his bomb aimer Miles Tripp wrote, and their crew reunion. Goes on to talk about his tour of operations, the bombing of Dresden and low flying.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-12
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
218 Squadron
African heritage
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
entertainment
flight engineer
Lancaster
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Methwold
RAF St Athan
RAF St Eval
Stirling
superstition
training