2
25
137
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9445/PWrigleyJ17040002.2.jpg
f14a0b75f1473a1a619786fce3dc147b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A woman, an airmen and three civilians
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a head and shoulders of a woman captioned 'Alice 1942'.
Photograph 2 is a half length image of an airman with a side cap, captioned 'Blackpool 1941'.
Photograph 3 is a woman and two children sitting on a doorstep, captioned 'George's Friends 1948'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs from a photo album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941
1942
1948
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1948
aircrew
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9446/PWrigleyJ17040003.1.jpg
42b2d211084b1bb1f6585115f3be6b95
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sam Wrigley, James Wrigley and groups of airmen
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a head and shoulders of a man in a jacket shirt and tie, captioned 'Brother Sam 1948'.
Photograph 2 is missing, captioned 'George's Girl Friend 1948'.
Photograph 3 is a group of six airmen, four standing, two kneeling, captioned ' 'Tangie' Turnbull Jock Farqharson [sic] Bill Doran John M. Chicken 'Pep' Parkinson Self.'.
Photograph 4 is three airmen walking down a wet street, captioned 'Morecambe 1940'.
Photograph 5 is three airmen in great coats walking down a street, captioned 'Ted Pack & Self Lindholme 1943'.
Photograph 6 is two sergeant airmen crouched down with a dog between them. One airman is smoking a pipe.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five photographs from a photo album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lancashire
England--Yorkshire
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040003
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1940
1943
1948
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1943
1948
aircrew
animal
RAF Lindholme
RAF Morecambe
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9447/PWrigleyJ17040004.1.jpg
5a0a05cb95afbd1d239633d9e2958442
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Paddy Hamilton, James Wrigley, a wedding and a young boy
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a head and shoulders portrait of an airman with a side cap, captioned 'Paddy Hamilton'.
Photograph 2 is a three quarters portrait of James Wrigley in a sidcot flying suit, captioned 'Yatesbury 1941'.
Photograph 3 is a wedding party standing formally outside a church. The groom is in RAF uniform. Also there is an airman with sidecap and an army officer. The bride has a large floral bouquet as her two bridesmaids. There is also a flower girl. The portrait is captioned 'Ted Packy Gwen 'spliced' 1945'.
Photograph 4 is a boy holding a bucket, captioned 'George, New Brighton 1948'.
The page has silver annotation 'Binbrook 1947'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Four b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941
1945
1947
1948
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Wiltshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1945
1947
1948
aircrew
love and romance
RAF Binbrook
RAF Yatesbury
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9449/PWrigleyJ17040006.2.jpg
d778fdc5e39a6097c11bdf572b6dd30a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Washington, three civilians, aircrew
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is the Capitol, Washington taken from an aircraft and partly obscured by an engine, captioned 'Capitol building, Washington D.C. 1947'.
Photograph 2 is a head and shoulders portrait of a man, a woman and a girl, captioned 'Lloyd, Dolores & Mike Dessaint, Riverside, California. 1947.'
Photograph 3 is six aircrew with a woman in the centre of the line. They are standing in front of a four engined bomber. It is captioned 'Lefty Cowles Jock Simpson Cholly's wife, Self, Johnny Rown [?] Chollerton Hemswell 1948'
Photograph 4 is an airman in an aircraft. He has a tray of mugs. It is captioned 'Tea Up!'.
Photograph 5 is the cockpit of an aircraft with two aircrew at the front and two more behind. It is captioned 'Cholly feeds the skipper'.
Photograph 6 is two men standing beside a palm tree, They are wearing towels, captioned 'Nav. Cook & Skipper Go native. 1948 Negombo, Ceylon'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1947
1948
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Six b/w photograph from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040006
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Sri Lanka
United States
California
Sri Lanka--Negombo
Washington (D.C.)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1947
1948
aircrew
Lincoln
RAF Hemswell
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9450/PWrigleyJ17040007.2.jpg
cf73e18d3bbd5ad62eb031b30b6278ec
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ceylon
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is of a snake charmer. Behind is the Celanes government building. It is captioned ' Snake Charmer -Colombo, Ceylon & Celanese Government building'.
Photograph 2 is an airman on a rickshaw. Behind is the Celanese government building, captioned 'Bill Doran in Rickshaw before Celanese Govt. building, Colombo, 1948.'
Photograph 3 is of government buildings captioned 'G.P.O. & Big Clock, Colombo, Ceylon'.
Photograph 4 is a mosque captioned 'Mosque, Seeduwa village, Ceylon'.
Photographs 5 and 6 are local Celanese people captioned 'Natives, Negombo, Ceylon'.
Photograph 7 is anative up a palm tree captioned '"Nelson" collects coconuts'.
Photograph 8 is local people working in a field using hand tools. A supervisor stands watching. Behind are palm trees.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Eight b/w photographs in an album.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040007
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Sri Lanka
Sri Lanka--Colombo
Sri Lanka--Negombo
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9453/PWrigleyJ17040010.2.jpg
9bf718debcdb4459082cd417518fc7de
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Singapore and Malaya
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a temple, captioned 'Hindu Temple'.
Photograph 2 is small boats, captioned 'Sampans, Singapore Harbour'.
Photograph 3 is a cart and bullock, captioned 'Native transport'.
Photograph 4 is a street scene.
Photograph 5 is a street scene with three buses, captioned 'Town centre, Johore Bahru, Malaya.
Photograph 6 is of two four-engined bombers taken from another over Penang harbour.
Photograph 7 is ships at anchor. They are captioned 'Formation over Penang & Singapore harbour'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Seven b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040010
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Singapore
Malaysia
Malaysia--Penang Island (Pulau Pinang)
Malaysia--Johor Bahru (Johor)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
animal
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9454/PWrigleyJ17040011.1.jpg
1ae8ac746de5a619a7fc8e1291e15a47
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tengah Open Day
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a front view of a Beaufighter.
Photograph 2 is the nose of a Spitfire.
Photograph 3 is a Vampire flying by.
Photograph 4 is front view of a Lincoln.
They are captioned 'Open Day, Tengah, Singapore 1948. Beaufighter, Spitfire, Vampire & Lincoln "L" 97 Sqdn (S.S.)'
Photograph 5 is 12 Spitfires flying in formation.
Photograph 6 is a side view of a C-47.
They are captioned 'Spitfire formation and Dakota Tengah Open Day'.
Photograph 7 and 8 are side views of a Lincoln, captioned 'Thor II at Tengah 1948'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Eight b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040011
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Indonesia
Indonesia--Jawa Tengah
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
97 Squadron
Beaufighter
C-47
Lincoln
Spitfire
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9455/PWrigleyJ17040012.1.jpg
3c32b74560f465c814af41198511d9dd
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Malaya, Saigon, Borneo and Singapore
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is an air-to-air view of eight Lincolns, captioned 'Showing the flag. The start & return of trip round Malaya'.
Photograph 2 is an oblique aerial view of a city and river, captioned 'Saigon, Indo-China'.
Photograph 3 is and air-to-air of two Lincolns in formation, taken from a third, captioned 'Formation over Malaya'.
Photograph 4 is of a town at the coast, captioned 'Kuching, Borneo'.
Photograph 5 is a group of tents with a hangar in the distance, captioned 'Home, sweet, home. Tengah, Singapore 1948.'
Photograph 6 is of three tents captioned 'Then the rain came'.
Photograph 7 is a side view of a KLM Constellation aircraft, captioned 'KLM Constellation Tengah.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Seven b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040012
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Malaysia
Indonesia
Vietnam
Indonesia--Jawa Tengah
Malaysia--Kuching (Sarawak)
Vietnam--Ho Chi Minh City
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocation impractical
hangar
Lincoln
military living conditions
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9456/PWrigleyJ17040013.1.jpg
d43e2448acc4300d36559ac067ff3fb2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Beaufighter, Spitfire and Lincoln
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is an air-to-air view of a flying Beaufighter, captioned 'Beaufighter formation, Negombo, Ceylon, 1948.'
Photograph 2 is an air-to-air view of a Spitfire taken from a Lincoln, captioned 'Spitfire breakaway, Shallufa Egypt 1948.'
Photograph 3 has been removed and was captioned 'No 1 A.G.S. Pembrey 1943.'
Photograph 4 is a large group of airmen arranged in four rows in front of a Lincoln. It is captioned '97 (Straits Settlements) Squadron RAF Hemswell Nov 17 '47'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
1947-11-14
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040013
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
Sri Lanka
Sri Lanka--Negombo
Egypt--Suez
North Africa
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
1947-11-14
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
97 Squadron
Beaufighter
Lincoln
RAF Hemswell
Spitfire
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/949/9457/PWrigleyJ17040014.1.jpg
70fb2545ab9eee0b312ffd2fe4f77af0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James. Album
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph album containing 51 photographs of James Wrigley's family, training and post war service in the United States and the Far East with 97 Squadron.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lincoln and Sigs Inst Course
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is a side view of a Lincoln, captioned ''Dirty Dog' (Lincoln RF505 'D') 97 Sqdn Karachi, Pakistan, 1948.'
Photograph 2 is ten airmen arranged in two rows, the front row of six is seated with four men standing behind. It is captioned 'Sigs. Inst. Course. St Athan. May 1945
N.C.Pipin C.J.Weale A.J Daniels W.T Atkins
Self, D.K. Ottley D. Ekhorst J.H.Jenkinson H.L. Durban F.N. Bradley'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
1945-05
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17040014
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Pakistan
Pakistan--Karachi
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
1945-05
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
97 Squadron
aircrew
Lincoln
RAF St Athan
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/781/9471/PWrigleyJ17050009.2.jpg
84ae1a11bf729d6bf0864cab568a5826
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wrigley, James
J Wrigley
Description
An account of the resource
27 items. The collection concerns James Wrigley (1920 - 2010, 1029740 Royal Air Force) and contains an interview with his widow, Alice Wrigley, photographs, his log book, decorations, and a photograph album of his service in the UK and and Far East. The collection also contains a log book made out to Rascal, his mascot or lucky charm. James Wrigley completed 47 operations as a wireless operator with 97 and 635 Squadrons.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Susan Higgins and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wrigley, J
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lincoln at dispersal
Description
An account of the resource
Side view of Lincoln 'RF505'. There are access ladders and bombs awaiting loading.
Additional information about this item has been kindly provided by the donor.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWrigleyJ17050009
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Pakistan
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
bombing up
Lincoln
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/358/9540/LHayleyCA1463437v1.1.pdf
1d7dfc7af85642fd8b30ffce42664f2b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hayley, Jack
Jack Hayley
C A Hayley
Cecil A Hayley
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. Collection consists of a log book, an interview and other items concerning Flight Lieutenant Cecil 'Jack' Alison Hayley DFC. Items include photographs of aircraft and people, a letter concerning his Distinguished Flying Cross and well as newspaper cuttings concerning operations, his wedding and the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross. After training he completed tours on 625 Squadron at RAF Kelstern, then 170 Squadron at RAF Hemswell before going on to a bomber defence training flight flying Hurricanes and Spitfires.
This collection was donated by Jack Hayley and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hayley, CA
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jack Hayley’s Royal Canadian Air Force pilots flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Jack Hayley, covering the period from 9 June 1942 to 30 June 1950. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying. He was stationed at, RAF Newquay, RAF Clyffe Pypard, RAF Heaton Park, RCAF Moncton, RCAF Dewinton, RCAF Estevan, RAF Harrogate, RAF Bournmouth, RAF Little Rissington, RAF Windrush, RAF Docking, RAF Madley, RAF Peplow, RAF Sandtoft, RAF Hemswell, RAF Kelstern, RAF Dunholme Lodge, RAF Peterborough, RAF Scampton, RAF Defford and RAF Celle. Aircraft flown were, Magister, Tiger Moth, Stearman, Anson II, Oxford, Dominie, Wellington, Halifax, Lancaster, Master, Spitfire, Hurricane, Lincoln, York, Hoverfly, Prentice, Tudor, Meteor, Devon, Mosquito, Harvard, Vampire, Wayfarer, Firefly, Canberra, Brigand, Valetta, Auster, Hastings, Athena and Shackleton. He flew a total of 31 operations, 8 daylight and 4 night operations with 625 Squadron and two daylight and 17 night with 170 Squadron. Targets in Germany and France were, Le Havre, Frankfurt, Rheine-Siezbergen, Eikenhorst, Calais, Neuss, Fort Frederick, Duisberg, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Bochum, Duren, Wanne-Eickel, Frieberg, Karlsruhe, Leuna, Essen, Ludwigshaven, Ulm, Osterfeld, Nurnberg, Munich, Merseburg-Leuna and Zeitz. He flew as a second pilot on operations with Flight Lieutenant Banks and Flying Officer Eckel.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LHayleyCA1463437v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1944-09-05
1944-09-06
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-17
1944-09-20
1944-09-23
1944-09-25
1944-09-26
1944-10-11
1944-10-14
1944-10-15
1944-10-19
1944-10-20
1944-10-27
1944-10-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-01
1944-11-02
1944-11-03
1944-11-04
1944-11-05
1944-11-16
1944-11-18
1944-11-19
1944-11-27
1944-11-28
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-17
1944-12-31
1945-01-02
1945-01-05
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-14
1945-01-15
1945-01-16
1945-01-17
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Great Britain
Germany
Alberta--De Winton
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Shropshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
France--Calais
France--le Havre
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Celle
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Leuna
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Munich
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Rheine
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Ulm
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Zeitz
New Brunswick--Moncton
Germany--Duisburg
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
England--Cornwall (County)
Saskatchewan--Estevan
Germany--Düsseldorf
New Brunswick
Saskatchewan
Alberta
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
1667 HCU
170 Squadron
625 Squadron
83 OTU
83 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Dominie
Flying Training School
Halifax
Halifax Mk 5
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hurricane
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
Magister
Meteor
Mosquito
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF Clyffe Pypard
RAF Defford
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kelstern
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Madley
RAF Peplow
RAF Peterborough
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF Windrush
RCAF Estevan
Shackleton
Spitfire
Stearman
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/84/9871/MCluettAV120946-150515-31.1.pdf
e7020df3b3575ab64c78a12056dfb617
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cluett, Albert Victor
Albert Victor Cluett
A V Cluett
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Great Britain. Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
68 items. The collection concerns Leading Aircraftman Albert Victor Cluett (1209046, Royal Air Force). After training in 1941/42 as an armourer, he was posted to 50 Squadron at RAF Swinderby and then RAF Skellingthorpe. The collections consists his official Royal Air Force documents, armourer training notebooks, photographs of colleagues, aircraft and locations as well as propaganda items, books in German and Dutch and items of memorabilia.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Albert Victor Cluett's daughter Pat Brown and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cluett, AV
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Albert Victor Cluett's Royal Air Forces Association membership booklet
Description
An account of the resource
Albert Victor Cluett's membership booklet for Lincoln branch of Royal Air Forces Association.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Forces Association
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948-04-24
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCluettAV120946-150515-31
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Lincoln
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/368/10062/LDeytrikhA1381508v2.1.pdf
398320178ef1782813a8a1e5e9e1adf9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Deytrikh, Andrew
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Wing Commander Andrew Deytrikh (1921-2016, 1381508, 111248 Royal Air Force), his log books and three photographs. After training as a pilot in 1941, Andrew Deytrikh flew Spitfires on 66 Squadron at a number of locations until July 1944 when he joined Vickers Armstrong as a production test pilot. After the war he served on 604 Squadron Auxiliary Air Force flying Spitfires, Vampires and Meteors. He finished his air force career as a wing commander air attache in Finland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Andrew Deytrikh and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Deytrikh, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Andrew Deytrikh’s pilots flying log book. Two
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Andrew Deytrikh, covering the period from 20 February 1944 to 15 October 1950. Detailing his flying training, operational flying and test flying. He was stationed at RAF Hornchurch, RAF North Weald, RAF Bognor, RAF Southend, RAF Castletown, Vickers Supermarine High Post and RAF Hendon. Aircraft flown were, Spitfire, Auster, Monarch, Dominie, Vega Gull, Harvard, Meteor and Vampire. He carried out convoy patrols, interceptions, army co-operation, scrambles, and bomber escorts with 66 squadron. He also flew operation Neptune in support of the Normandy landings. He was involved with production test flying with Vickers and converted to jet aircraft with 604 squadron.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text. Log book and record book
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Great Britain
England--Essex
England--Somerset
England--London
France--Normandy
Scotland--Caithness
England--Sussex
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LDeytrikhA1381508v2
66 Squadron
aircrew
Dominie
Harvard
Meteor
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
pilot
RAF Hendon
RAF Hornchurch
RAF North Weald
Spitfire
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/946/10121/LVipondR3040603v1.2.pdf
c247b4809193000c047f5b29916993b4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Vipond, Richard
R Vipond
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. The collection concerns Richard Vipond (3040603, Royal Air Force) and consists of his log book, service documents and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 514 Squadron from RAF Waterbeach.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Pauline Ponsford and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Vipond, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Richard Vipond’s flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LVipondR3040603v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Egypt
France
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Singapore
Egypt--Suez Canal
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cumbria
Great Britain Miscellaneous Island Dependencies--Isle of Man
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hattingen
Germany--Kamen
Germany--Munich
Germany--Schleswig-Holstein
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Netherlands--Hague
North Africa
Malaysia
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-02-19
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-02-23
1945-02-26
1945-02-28
1945-03-02
1945-03-11
1945-03-14
1945-05-07
1945-05-09
1945-05-11
1945-05-12
1945-05-16
1945-05-18
1945-05-19
1945-05-20
1945-05-26
1945-07-05
Description
An account of the resource
Navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers flying log book for Richard Vipond, covering the period from 29 May 1944 to 18 November 1953. Detailing his flying training, operations flown, instructor duties and post war duties with 514, 288, 61 and 88 Squadrons. He was stationed at RAF Barrow, RAF Husbands Bosworth, RAF Bottesford, RAF Waterbeach, RAF Hutton Cranswick, RAF Jurby, RAF Lindholme, RAF Waddington, RAF Shallufa, RAF Tengah, RAF Scampton and RAF Seletar. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington, Lancaster, Vengeance, Lincoln and Sunderland. He flew a total of 9 operations with 514 squadron, 7 daylight and 2 night operations. He also flew on Operation Manna to The Hague and Operation Exodus to France and Belgium. He also carried out 35 Strike operations with 61 squadron during the Malayan emergency in 1950. Targets were, Munich, Wesel, Dortmund, Gelsenkirchen, Kamen Dortmund, Nornstedt, Cologne, Essen and Hattingen. His pilot on operations was Flight Lieutenant Marks.
1668 HCU
514 Squadron
61 Squadron
85 OTU
88 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Cook’s tour
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 2
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Barrow in Furness
RAF Bottesford
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Jurby
RAF Lindholme
RAF Scampton
RAF Shallufa
RAF Waddington
RAF Waterbeach
Sunderland
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/947/10643/LMathersRW55201v2.2.pdf
55bec3251d71f385ab46787c57ae829d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mathers, Ronald
R W Mathers
Description
An account of the resource
20 items. The collection concerns Wing Commander Ronald Mathers DFC (55201 Royal Air Force) and consists of his log books, photographs, correspondence, his decorations, and copies of two letters from Dwight Eisenhower to Sir Arthur Harris. Ronald Mathers completed a tour of operations as a pilot with 9 Squadron from RAF Bardney. After the war he took part in victory flypasts and a Goodwill tour of the United States with 35 Squadron. The collection also contains a scrapbook of the Goodwill Tour to the United States.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Heidi Peace and Ingrid Peters, and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mathers, RW
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ronald Mathers pilots flying log book. Two
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Ronald Mathers covering the period from 1 October 1944 to 24 February 1948. Detailing his flying training, instructor duties and duties with 35 squadron. He was stationed at RAF Swinderby, RAF Finningley, RAF Hullavington, RAF Gravely, RAF Stradishall and RAF Scampton. Aircraft flown were, Stirling, Lancaster, Oxford, Wellington, Hotspur, Auster, Harvard, Reliant, Hudson, Halifax, Dakota, Warwick, Lincoln, Meteor, Spitfire, Buckmaster, Mosquito and Anson. He also flew operation Goodwill to America, visiting Lagens, Gander, Mitchel Field, Scott Field, Lowry Field, Long Beach Field, Kelly Field, Andrew Field and Westover Field.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LMathersRW55201v2
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
United States
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
California--Long Beach
Colorado--Denver
Illinois--Belleville
Massachusetts--Chicopee
Maryland--Camp Springs
Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander
New York (State)--Long Island
Texas--San Antonio
Azores--Lajes
California
Colorado
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
New York (State)
Texas
Newfoundland and Labrador
Canada
Azores
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1660 HCU
35 Squadron
Anson
C-47
forced landing
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Halifax
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hudson
Lancaster
Lincoln
Meteor
Mosquito
Oxford
RAF Finningley
RAF Graveley
RAF Hullavington
RAF Scampton
RAF Stradishall
RAF Swinderby
Spitfire
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/325/11349/MSaundersAC295399Arm-170201-01.1.pdf
5b35edd914bac7cd5fb4607cf2e90210
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Saunders, Sandy
Arthur Courtenay Saunders
Arthur C Saunders
Arthur Saunders
A C Saunders
A Saunders
Description
An account of the resource
Seven items. The collection consists of a log book, an oral history interview and extensive medical records as well as photographs and a report. Dr Arthur Courtenay "Sandy" Saunders (1922-2017, 295329 Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers) received extensive burns after an aircraft crash in September 1945 and underwent experimental maxillo-facial surgery, as a member of the Guinea-pig Club.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sandy Saunders and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Saunders, AC
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sandy Saunders' medical records following aircraft crash
Maxillo-Facial Service
Description
An account of the resource
Medical records for Sandy Saunders following the aircraft crash on 27 Sep 1945 where he sustained burns to his face, hands and legs. Included are proceedings from medical boards from Nov 1945-Feb 1947 and detailed notes from the Maxillo-Facial Unit, Queen Victoria Hospital, East Grinstead from April 1947, where his surgeon was Archibald McIndoe. Sandy Saunders was finally discharged from that unit on 6 Sep 1949.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
28 printed sheets with handwritten annotations, sketches and photographs
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MSaundersAC295399Arm-170201-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
British Army
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--East Grinstead
England--Sussex
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-09-27
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
crash
McIndoe, Archibald (1900-1960)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11356/LBattyPH220759v1.2.pdf
14a45ff205dd3cf87ee5b5b106fa8586
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Batty, Philip
Phil Batty
P Batty
Description
An account of the resource
19 Items. The collection consists of one oral history interview with Philip Batty (b. 1925). He discusses the death of his older brother Dennis early in the Second World War, his wartime service with 50 Squadron at RAF Sturgate as a wireless operator/ air gunner, and his long post war career. The collection also includes a number of group photographs of airmen after training, photographs of aircraft in southern Africa, his log book and propaganda material.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-14
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Batty, P
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Philip Batty's flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners and flight engineers
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for navigator’s, air bomber’s, air gunner’s, flight engineer’s for Philip Batty, wireless operator, covering the period from 7 February 1944 to 31 October 1949. Detailing his flying training, post war flying and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Madley, RAF Staverton, RAF Dumfries, RAF Husbands Bosworth, RAF Winthorpe, RAF Sturgate, RAF Linton, RAF Weathersfield, RAF Tarrant Rushton, RAF Silverstone, RAF Heany and RAF Thornhill. Aircraft flown in were, Dominie, Anson, Proctor, Wellington, Lancaster, Halifax and C-47. He flew 4 Dodge operations to Pomigliano and Bari with 50 squadron. He also carried out paratrooper, supply drops and glider towing with 297 squadron.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBattyPH220759v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Italy
Zimbabwe
England--Essex
England--Gloucestershire
England--Herefordshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
Italy--Bari
Italy--Pomigliano d'Arco
Scotland--Dumfries
Zimbabwe--Bulawayo
Zimbabwe--Gweru
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1945-08-21
1945-08-25
1945-09-07
1945-09-10
1945-09-13
1945-09-15
1945-10-02
1945-10-04
1945-10-08
1945-10-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
1661 HCU
1665 HCU
297 Squadron
50 Squadron
85 OTU
97 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
C-47
Dominie
Flying Training School
Halifax
Halifax Mk 5
Halifax Mk 7
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Dumfries
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Madley
RAF Silverstone
RAF Staverton
RAF Sturgate
RAF Tarrant Rushton
RAF Weathersfield
RAF Winthorpe
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11371/PBattyPH1618.2.jpg
7a44e62a344fde0aedc5e274cb0b11c1
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11371/PBattyPH1619.2.jpg
abecb0b52c32961bce5109559a24508a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Batty, Philip
Phil Batty
P Batty
Description
An account of the resource
19 Items. The collection consists of one oral history interview with Philip Batty (b. 1925). He discusses the death of his older brother Dennis early in the Second World War, his wartime service with 50 Squadron at RAF Sturgate as a wireless operator/ air gunner, and his long post war career. The collection also includes a number of group photographs of airmen after training, photographs of aircraft in southern Africa, his log book and propaganda material.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-14
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Batty, P
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Two Ansons
Description
An account of the resource
Two Ansons are on the ground, parked on the grass. On the reverse 'KASAMA 1948'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBattyPH1618, PBattyPH1619
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Zambia
Zambia--Kasama
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Anson
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1027/11399/PMcVickersCG1701.2.jpg
e63e360b9d8c44c497cd07bf38ac604f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1027/11399/AMcVickersCG171006.1.mp3
e70c5002647526a9e94ca6d62c386bfe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
McVickers, Christopher George
C G McVickers
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Christopher George McVickers (1922 - 2018, 1042135 Royal Air Force), his log book identity card and disks and his decorations. He completed a tour of operations as a wireless operator with 218 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Christopher McVickers and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-06
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
McVickers, CG
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HB: Right. This is an interview for the International Bomber Command.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Digital Archive between Harry Bartlett, representing the Archive and Christopher George McVickers who was a member of 218 Gold Coast Squadron and served throughout the war in —
CM: Well —
HB: With 218.
CM: ’41.
HB: From 1941 through and served after the war through to 1965.
CM: ’67.
HB: Thank you. I was wrong.
CM: Well —
HB: I have.
CM: Don’t forget I wasn’t flying for the last eighteen months. I was just, I was a missile controller.
HB: Right. Right. So, Kit isn’t it?
CM: Kit.
HB: We call you Kit.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Right. Where you were born, Kit?
CM: Blackhill, County Durham.
HB: Right. And did you go to school at Blackhill?
CM: I’ve no recollection of ever going to school.
HB: No.
CM: I forgot about it. I went to school quite obviously.
HB: Obviously.
CM: Went to school at Benfieldside.
HB: Aye. And, and your first job was in —
CM: Errand boy.
HB: Yeah. In the —
CM: As you did in those days. This was, I’m talking 1935 ’36 you know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Did up to fourteen.
HB: So you were an errand boy.
CM: I failed the eleven plus.
HB: Right.
CM: But it wasn’t — I had a broken arm during that period and also went to hospital with scarlet fever during that period.
HB: Right.
CM: When I came back to school because obviously the sickness thing. And the eleven plus was pending, I couldn’t do it at the time.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because I couldn’t sit at the desk like that.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So I missed all the revision and everything else. So, they all said, you’d have no chance with that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I took, I took it privately. By myself.
HB: Oh right.
CM: Just with my arm out of the, just like that. So consequently I didn’t know how to pick my pen up or to write.
HB: Aye.
CM: So I made a mess of it and I failed it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So there was a lot of talk about it at the time. Jane knows all about this. And my father made such a fuss of this. ‘My son has never had a chance. He’s had no chance. No revision. Nothing at all.’ Sat down with his arm out of his sling and taking an important — so that’s, but at that time they did their very best.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But they couldn’t do anything about it.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. So you just —
CM: I was going to pass the eleven plus but I didn’t due to circumstances.
HB: Yeah. So you became an errand boy.
CM: Yeah. I was. I won’t say I was a very humble errand boy but I was the best errand boy in the locality.
HB: Yes. Absolutely. And you went to the steelworks I understand.
CM: Yes. My father, my father’s brother Kit who was the, as I said was general secretary of the Iron, Steel, British Iron, Steel and Kindred Trades Association. So he had so much power he could say to me, ‘It’s your sixteenth birthday coming up Kit lad.’ Kit lad. He said Kit lad. He said, ‘Just report to the timekeeper and say you’re Uncle Kit sent you,’ he said, ‘You’ll be set on.’ So I thought, My God, this is nepotism but in a fine sort of way but that’s how I got the steelworks.
HB: And that was at, that was in Consett.
CM: Within two years of course, those were ’36 ’37 then the war broke out and instead of being, doing, on the staff of the steelworks which I was they said, ‘Ok. We’re going to need all the best men we’ve got to man, man the furnaces,’ because a lot of the people on the furnaces had been, were Territorials and they’d been called up anyway. So semi promotion was not only I was going to be boy plus beyond boy to the eighteen year old man. Man’s, man’s business. So suddenly I got promotion beyond the dreams of avarice.
HB: Oh lovely.
CM: But the only fault of it was the timekeepers thought these were boys and they’d be boy labourers. Therefore, they must pay boy labourers wages. So about three months later Kit said to me, he said, ‘How are you spending all the extra money Kit lad?’ And all I was getting was, I said, ‘Well, I’m not getting any extra money.’ I’m getting boy’s labourers wages. He said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘Just stay here. Don’t move from that place for ten minutes.’ And off he went to see the, not the commanding officer —
HB: No.
CM: The general service manager. You know, the boss. Came back and said, ‘Don’t worry,’ he said, ‘You’ll get all the backpay you get at full men’s wages. Not only that it’s all the people who’ve been doing the same thing as you. They’ll get the same thing. Well, I was the most popular chap in the steelworks. By this time it was quite a lump sum between boy’s labourers wages and men’s labourers wages.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Anyway, I did pretty well because leaving school at fourteen didn’t make much difference. I had the intelligence then in the first place. Which I would, that’s why my father said I would have been a cert for the grammar school.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I had the grammar school brains without the grammar qualifications.
CM: That’s —
HB: So I did alright.
HB: So that was up to, that was sort of ’37 ’38.
CM: That’s right. Well —
HB: So, so, how, how did you come to join the RAF?
CM: It was 1941 before I joined the Air Force.
HB: Yeah.
CM: By that time I was nineteen.
HB: Yeah. And did you, did you volunteer Kit?
CM: Oh yeah. Yeah. They wouldn’t let you go unless you volunteered.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And you had to be, you had to volunteer for either submarines or aircrew or some other damned dangerous job.
HB: Yeah.
CM: They wouldn’t let you go otherwise. They wouldn’t let you go just to be an ordinary soldier.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: You know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You’re more important then to be manning the furnaces.
HB: Yeah. So, so it was so you basically you were in a Reserved Occupation.
CM: Oh, that’s right. Yes, I was. Yes.
HB: And then to —
CM: Like Kit. Like Kit himself.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: The boss. And the boss of the steelworks. They were all Reserved Occupation.
HB: Yeah. So you then went from Reserved Occupation and you volunteered for aircrew.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Right.
CM: But if it had been anything other than aircrew they would said no.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Back to where you were more useful.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Which I was by then. I was an experienced furnaceman. A fourth. There a fourth hand, third hand, second hand and first hand. You know, four men manned the furnaces. So you progressed from fourth hand to first hand but it took you about forty years to do it.
HB: Yeah. Oh yeah.
CM: The SiC turn system. [unclear] was in operation.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. So —
CM: Organised by my Uncle Kit.
HB: Yeah. So you come and join the RAF. And you obviously had to go for your [pause] you obviously had to go for your training. Where did, where did you go for your training?
CM: First three months was Blackpool.
HB: That’s —
CM: General service training.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You know, square bashing.
HB: Was that at Padgate?
CM: No. That was at Blackpool.
HB: At Blackpool.
CM: Yeah. Blackpool.
HB: Right and —
CM: And from there to Yatesbury.
HB: You went to Yatesbury.
CM: Yeah. But, well say Yatesbury. In actual fact it was a branch of Compton Bassett which was the Ground Radio School. Yatesbury was the Air Radio School.
HB: Ah. Right.
CM: You went to the Ground Radio School because we weren’t going straight on to be at the air gunner’s course. There was a bit of backlog so we went in —
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
CM: Graduated as wireless operators at this station. I was supposed to get to Anglesey but there wasn’t flying there.
HB: Oh right.
CM: But they had a small station that was there to get experience of this.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Just general wireless operating which stood me in good stead because by the time we really got to the squadron, you know, I was an experienced wireless op.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Not only just getting practice but doing the real thing.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But that made me a pretty good wireless operator to start with, with the experience I had.
HB: Oh right. So that —
CM: So —
HB: So you progressed through that training.
CM: That’s right.
HB: In ’41.
CM: That’s right. And then I was doing these stints at various units and then eventually I was called back. This time to Yatesbury to do what they called the refresher course. Six weeks.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Refreshers. Getting, you know the last time that we were nineteen year old nincompoops. They said — we’d better give them a bit more of a refresher.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That was good.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because I found that I learned more in the six week refresher course than I’d learned for the whole three months before. Getting it again. Because by that time —
HB: Yeah.
CM: I knew what I was all about.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I could take it in better. So, as I said I came and graduated as a W/op AG at [pause] we didn’t do any flying at the gunnery school. It was at a ground gunnery school only because at that time, 1943 the losses, the losses were so great they wanted people desperately at the squadrons. And that’s where I got a, I did a —
HB: Yeah.
CM: I was a w/op AG without doing the air gunnery course. But I still wore a gunner’s brevet because I’d been trained as a ground gunner. That’s, they just cut the courses short.
HB: Yeah.
CM: At that time.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So, I graduated in June, 2nd of June 1943 as a w/op ag. Wireless operator/air gunner.
HB: Air gunner. Yeah. Right. So in [pause] you end up in 1943 in, at the OTU at Ossington.
CM: That’s right.
HB: That’s obviously where you start, start your proper flying and wireless operating.
CM: That’s right. With Sergeant Topham.
HB: Yeah.
CM: As my captain. But he couldn’t, when he went to the Lancaster finishing, the Stirling OTU. What did they call it? Heavy Conversion Unit.
HB: Yeah.
CM: When we eventually got there we realised that Johnny Topham, even though he was a wonderful man. He was an ex-police, police sergeant from Newcastle he picked me because I was an ex-errand boy from Consett.
HB: From Durham. County Durham. Yeah.
CM: But he couldn’t fly a — he couldn’t land a Stirling. Stirlings are very very difficult aircraft to land because they’re high up.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I can show you a photograph of a Stirling, you know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: A hell of a, if you fell out the cockpit of a Stirling you’d kill yourself.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It’s so high.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And he couldn’t land the Stirling. Very difficult to judge the distance.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because of this huge electrical undercarriage and everything.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Very difficult to gauge. Two or three feet as you circle, bang down with a hell of a — break the undercarriage. So you had to be really a skilful, have the feel to start with and Johnny couldn’t do it.
HB: Right.
CM: So he had to go by the board. He went to Lancaster Finishing School and got away with another crew and did a tour of operations.
HB: Right. So, so —
CM: Nevertheless, I went, we got Johnny, with Johnny Lloyd who was an ex-instructor.
HB: Ah right. So that’s, that’s the Lloyd that appears in the operational record.
CM: That’s right.
HB: With you. Oh right. So, it says in your logbook you just, perhaps you can explain it to me it says OTU satellite Bircotes.
CM: That’s right. In each of these OTUs they always had a spare. For diversions and things like that. And sometimes you’d be stationed at the satellite because it was more convenient. To take more, more aircraft in the air. More people going through. So Bircotes was a small grass field right almost just on the edge of Bircotes mining village.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
CM: So but there was a lot of juggling about there with pilots like Johnny Topham I’ve just been telling you about and other people like that. John Lloyd, the other bloke too, he went LMF as well. So it was branded as a kind of a jerky sort of tour.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You went to. You see it followed through the worst thing. I’d be a long time in the squadron with Johnny Lloyd and of course every time he took us he took us fly us he took us, he could fly a Stirling, every time he took us to it he could [unclear] with it. They thought was great. We thought was great actually to have a captain who could fling a Stirling around the sky as if he’d been born and bred to it. But of course the authorities didn’t like it. They wanted to be trained in the orthodox sort of way.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So my passes to these sort of things is varied, many and varied.
HB: Yeah. I don’t know if you can remember this, Kit as just an interesting little note in here. September the 4th 1943. You’re with Sergeant Topham as the pilot.
CM: That’s right. Johnny Topham.
HB: And you’re doing a, you’re in a Wellington.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And you’re doing a cross country test.
CM: Yes.
HB: Routine test. And it says in here that you couldn’t maintain your height.
CM: That’s right.
HB: So what happened?
CM: Crashed at, crashed at Catfoss. Doesn’t it, doesn’t it mention crashing at Catfoss?
HB: Yeah. Yeah. It does.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah. So, so what? You just hit the ground and slid.
CM: Well, we were coming in to land. The communication wasn’t very good. But he had got to the air traffic control that we were coming in to land because he had lost, lost an engine. He couldn’t maintain height. But when we approached the runway there was a Beaufort, a Beaufort. At Catfoss was Beauforts. It was a Coastal Command station.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And he’s on the end of runway. So what can we do? We had to get down because the aircraft wouldn’t make it. It wouldn’t have got off the other side.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Only one engine and that engine was derated.
HB: Ah.
CM: It was derated and therefore it was not, they couldn’t put us off anyway. In spite of the fact the engine was, and we’d lost one altogether they’re going to crash anyway. So at the very end of the runway Johnny was trying to get over the Beaufort that was standing at the end of the runway who obviously wasn’t aware what was coming in behind. Just at the last minute he just kind of boosted over the Beaufort and hit the ground but then that lifted pretty well high up. Then when we landed this time hit too hard, undercarriage split and we crashed in to —
HB: Slid down.
CM: That’s it.
HB: Anybody hurt?
CM: No. Of course with the Wellington when it crashes on the ground you can’t get out.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
CM: Did you know that?
HB: Yeah.
CM: You get in through the nose.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And that goes straight against the ground. So they’d got a screened, a screened navigator basically standing beside me in the astrodome. And he undid, I wouldn’t have known about this, he undid the four screws under the astrodome and just on the approach he knew. He knew what he was doing. He was going to make an escape hatch to start with before we even got down.
HB: Right.
CM: And he put us down. He says, ‘You’re going out there.’ The only snag is that when we hit I was knocked arse over t [laughs] and I was lost. But the navigator he hung on. He was experienced. He hung on and he was the first out. And when the others would have got out the same, the pilot got through the cockpit.
HB: Aye. Aye.
CM: Which took a lot of time to take in. Of course I was hit in the back and I strolled out of the, from underneath the astrodome and I heard the navigator say, ‘The w/ops still in there. The w/ops still in there.’ Because expecting the Wellingtons are notorious burners.
HB: Aye.
CM: Experienced. And then one of the, one of the brave members of my crew got in. I’ve forgotten his name, what it was now. But he was the chap and he hooked me out. He sort of picked me up and pushed me through the astrodome.
HB: Right. That’s —
CM: And I can’t, looking back I can’t ever remember thanking that chap.
HB: No.
CM: I was so shocked that they did that. That Kit McVickers was involved in this crash. I couldn’t get over it. But I can’t ever, I may have done. I think I should have done through my background and training.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But I can’t ever remember saying. Look [pause] I can’t even remember his name.
HB: And that was just a, and that was just a routine training flight.
CM: That’s right. That’s right.
HB: At night. A night time one.
CM: I was very pleased of course that the crew were around me.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The most wonderful men. But then again all the crews I’ve ever had. They were all wonderful men.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. So then you moved on to the Conversion Units at Chedburgh and Wratting Common.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And that, and was that when, that was when you moved to Stirlings was it? From the Wellingtons?
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Yes. Yeah. Topham was, Topham was your, was your pilot nearly all the way through there. And then [pause] it’s alright. I’m just, I’ve turned two pages in your logbook here. At Stradishall is where you joined up or you occasionally flew with Lloyd. What, what was his name? What was his name?
CM: What? Whose? What was —
HB: Lloyd. The pilot. Lloyd. What was his name? His full name.
CM: Just on Stirlings.
HB: No. On, yeah, Stirlings. Yeah.
CM: Well, first of all there was Johnny Topham.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And then Johnny. Johnny Lloyd. Both Johnny’s.
HB: They were both Johnny.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Right. So you, so then you pick up with Johnny Lloyd at Stradishall.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And you, and you do your training there and then you’re posted to 218 Squadron at Woolfox Lodge.
CM: Woolfox Lodge. Yeah. The best station I’ve ever been on.
HB: Right
CM: Right on the Great North Road.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: The billet. Within one minute of leaving my billet I’d be out on the side of the road and the boys — here’s my younger daughter now and her husband are coming. You’re very popular Mr Bartlett. Fred is it? Fred or Jim? First name.
HB: Harry.
CM: Harry. God, I was going to [unclear] yeah. And of course there was always traffic going backwards and forwards.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Military traffic.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You always get that. So I was lucky in that respect. This is, this is Mr Bartlett. Harry Bartlett.
Other: I Know. We spoke on the phone.
HB: Let me just, let me just, let me just stop the tape.
CM: Fiona.
HB: For a second.
CM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
HB: It’s 12.30 and we’re going to restart.
CM: Does that mean that memorable conversation hasn’t been recorded then?
HB: No. Perhaps as well we haven’t recorded that bit of the conversation. Right.
CM: But that, that was part of my life and of course we depend on communications with the girlfriends to keep us going. We looked forward. No one was more popular than the postman at Bomber Command. Letters coming in. Really beautiful. People loved their communications.
HB: Absolutely. Absolutely. Right. Well, we’ll just go back. We’re on 218, Gold Coast Squadron now. And that’s — sorry I’ve, I’ve closed the book and lost the page.
CM: It is bewildering because it isn’t straightforward because losing these people to LMF and one way or another it became a little bit bitty through my tour.
HB: Yes. Yes. That’s [pause] sorry that’s — I’ve, I’ve somehow managed to lose the whole of the Second World War there to closing the pages. A clever thing to do.
CM: I know. It’s easily done.
HB: Right. So, so you’re on, you’re on Stirlings. We’re in 1944 and you’re flying operations then. And you’re doing all the standard.
CM: But don’t forget at that time there’s the preparation for, D-Day was coming and of course although we were on the squadron but we were the new boys. And they didn’t want, with this big invasion going to take place, new boys cluttering up the edges. So consequently we found ourselves as a crew just chucked a little bit to one side because they wanted to get the main force trained. We were just incidental. So the only chance we’d got of getting operational in those days was mine laying. But of course even mine laying went by the board. We were also trained. Trained up to do this raid on the, with 617 Squadron dropping radars. Dropping Window all along the route to indicate a big fleet going to the north of where they actually landed. And 218 and 617 were two squadrons doing that. I wasn’t even on that because we were just on the, we were the new boys.
HB: Yeah.
CM: On the edges.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But with all this activity going on but not being part of it and we were too late to join it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: They didn’t want to be cluttered up because at that time it was getting on for June wasn’t it? If you look at the date it’s getting on for June the 6th
HB: Yeah.
CM: D-Day.
HB: Because, because throughout what you’re talking about. Through, throughout June and [pause] June and July you’re flying bullseye.
CM: Yeah. The bullseye was the last thing before you actually did operations. It just kept, took in all the aspects of bombing.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Without actually being there. Bullseye. It was. There was some navigation, dropping bombs and practice bombs and flares. We did use operational techniques without being actually on operations.
HB: Right. Right.
CM: That sort of thing.
HB: Right. So, we’ve come through June. We’ve got into July. You’re still doing a lot of training flights.
CM: That’s right. Because that was the aftermath. Things were still in a bit of chaos.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I did my first operation there. Sometime around, around about. Generally, on pages you can see war operation. I didn’t even know how to report in my logbook. You never put war operations. You put operations.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Have you seen it yet? Operation. War operation. That was the only one we did in the Stirling.
HB: I’ll have a quick. I’ve got it. War operation.
CM: The one.
HB: That was the 8th of July.
CM: Yeah. So I missed getting the —
HB: Yeah. That was in a Stirling.
CM: That’s right.
HB: With the pilot, with —
CM: Lloyd.
HB: Warrant Officer Lloyd. Johnny Lloyd. Johnny. Johnny Lloyd.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And that was — Attacked FB. Flying —
CM: Flying bomb.
HB: Flying bomb depot.
CM: Yeah.
HB: In daylight.
CM: That’s right.
HB: [unclear] Capel. Yeah.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Right. So that was, that was your first was it?
CM: That’s right.
HB: That was your first op.
CM: Also shortly after that they decided they weren’t going to fly Stirlings anymore so in all the chaos their transferring to Lancasters. You see.
HB: Right [coughs] excuse me. Oh yes. Because by August you’re doing, you’re doing the training on Lancasters. And then we get to September ’44. Then it really starts doesn’t it?
CM: Well, our Johnny went LMF if you read it.
HB: Who? Who went LMF?
CM: Of course that’s not in my logbook because you couldn’t put anything. You didn’t even leave. You just didn’t leave the ground.
HB: No.
CM: You just sat on the side of the runway.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So it’s not, it’s not even listed because why, why should it be? We didn’t get airborne.
HB: No. Who? Who, who actually went LMF?
CM: That you’ll find that in the end Warrant Officer Lloyd ends. No more for him at all. And they get a new one. This one. It took a bit of, it took about three or four weeks to get a new captain who was Hill. Warrant Officer Hill.
HB: Oh yeah that was —
CM: Who was the best pilot.
HB: That was December. Yeah. In the December. Right. And well we’ll, we’ll come on to that because you’re flying with Lloyd in Lancasters. NF 955 and 56. And you’re doing operations at Le Havre. Three. Three times you went over Le Havre.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And —
CM: On the last trip there, when Glenn Miller was — we jettisoned all our bombs in the sea because the target was covered with, covered with, covered with mist.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So you couldn’t drop them because there was civilian people in Le Havre.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So we jettisoned in the sea and that was the day that Glenn missing, Glenn missing went miller [laughs] Glenn Miller went missing.
HB: Oh right.
CM: Flying to the site of a new concert they were going to have.
HB: Oh right.
CM: He must have been, he must have been the most terrified man in the world to suddenly find you were flying over the North Sea just within a few miles of France and suddenly being bombed by, in the middle of the ocean, the middle of the North Sea by about five hundred bombers.
HB: Oh.
CM: The jettison area couldn’t, they couldn’t, they could have jettisoned by the city but civilians were there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was a terrible waste. And he must have thought what on earth is happening here?
HB: And that was, that was —
CM: The gunner from 90 squadron at Tuddenham he saw, he saw this little plane. Pioneer or some —
HB: Yeah.
CM: He saw it actually go in.
HB: Did he?
CM: So there’s no doubt about that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The September. The bombing.
HB: Because that’s, that’s 5th 6th 8th of September. Yeah. And then you did an operation to Frankfurt.
CM: That’s right. A night.
HB: A night operation.
CM: We lost four aircraft on one flight on that raid. In that incident. Because it’s a city you see.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was Lloyd flying that. And then you did an attack. Oh, 28th of September you did an attack on Calais.
CM: That’s right.
HB: A German garrison.
CM: We could, we could actually see the airfield from where we were bombing it. And then we lost three aircraft on that raid. The Calais raid.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The fire. The 88 millimetre fire from, from Calais was so accurate that the aircraft was shot down within sight of their base.
HB: Oh no. Oh dear.
CM: So at Calais is hardly worth anyone going actually.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Just shoot the bombs from the guns from Dover.
HB: Right.
CM: But I remember that as being very very fraught because it was a small target and there were five hundred bombers on it. It was absolutely bloody dangerous.
HB: So, I mean your last — it says in here your last operation with Johnny Lloyd was Wilhelmshaven.
CM: Wilhelmshaven. That’s right.
HB: Yeah. That was 5th of October. And then you did, you did some navigational training which was abandoned.
CM: Who was flying on the navigational training?
HB: That was Lloyd. That was Johnny Lloyd.
CM: Oh that’s —
HB: That was an abandoned exercise.
CM: Yeah.
HB: And then —
CM: Now, one of those trips wouldn’t be in my logbook because we didn’t get airborne but he suddenly decided he wasn’t going to go.
HB: Right. Because then you’ve got a you see where they’ve cut the logbook to fit this folder they’ve lost the actual first day. So it’s really early on in December and you’ve got Johnny Lloyd flying on a familiarisation with a Lancaster. Circuits and landings.
CM: That’s right. So it was only, it was when I was on Lancasters that we did the aborted trip on the —
HB: Yeah.
CM: He went LMF.
HB: And then —
CM: So —
HB: And then within a couple of days you’ve got WO, Warrant Officer Hill.
CM: That’s right. Well, there you are you see. One didn’t fly and then you’ve got to get a new captain. Still, we never saw Johnny Lloyd again.
HB: Yeah.
CM: He just vanished off the face of the earth.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s what I say. All these things —
HB: On the time, on the date.
CM: All these things of the crew were hushed up.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You don’t hear very much about but mostly it was never put down in black and white.
HB: On the day that, on the day that as you described it he went LMF. What, what happened on that day? Can you remember?
CM: Well, taking off as I believe about 2 o’clock on the afternoon. That’s right. And as I said the 149 Squadron which was with us at Methwold were coming on to the peri track this way and we, 218 were coming around this way. So the peri track was filled with aircraft converged on the runway here. Right. Well, so when we went into the runway on the right hand side we were blocking the runway. No one could take off. Then we started to backtrack slowly. Taff in such a state by the door I can’t imagine what it was like. Silence in the crew. Turns around in front of all this other aircraft, took aim [unclear] and off he went again. Exactly the same thing. [unclear] went straight in there and of course the commanding officer in the background weren’t having that. So anyway straight in. They came in the jeep at the foot of our aircraft and straight away, barking. Couldn’t move. And then, ‘Follow me.’
HB: Yeah.
CM: Before the jeep went back to dispersal.
HB: So, he was, he was sitting in the pilot’s seat.
CM: That’s right. He was —
HB: But he just couldn’t take off.
CM: That’s right. He just wouldn’t take off.
HB: He wouldn’t take off.
CM: He said he could but he didn’t want to. He realised I think that Good God, I’m going to be ruddy be killed on this operation. I’m not sufficiently good. I’ve overstretched my capabilities. And I’m not really, I should have taken more notice of [pause] I think he was worried he was going to make a mess of things.
HB: Right.
CM: This turmoil inside for some reason. I don’t know. Presumably —
HB: So you got back. You go in. You got back to this dispersal.
CM: We got back. He stayed in his seat. He says.
HB: Yeah.
CM: One of the commanding officers came running at the aircraft. He says, ‘Stay where you are. Stay where you are.’ And then he says, ‘Don’t anyone move. Leave the captain there and come out now.’ Stop what you’re doing. Just drop it. Come out.’ So we all trooped out and they had a whatsthename, jeep waggon came out. A little bus to take us back. And one of us said, ‘What’s going to happen to Johnny?’ You know. Because he was very popular you see. We loved him. Johnny Lloyd. He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘He’ll be taken care of. Don’t you worry about that. Johnny’ll be taken care of.’ And we found out later that he’d ditched, within twenty four hours he’d left the station.
HB: Right.
CM: And within, ooh a few weeks we found he’d been turfed out of the Air Force.
HB: Right.
CM: He then went back to his place where he lived and he became destitute. That’s the story we found out later and he was ashamed of himself. Humiliated. His status as a captain and as a solicitor, it was the damned report, it was terrible. But then we found he’d, there’s a rumour that his family had gone off and sent him to Australia and he was doing his training as a solicitor. But the booze. The booze also took part in it this time.
HB: Oh right.
CM: And nothing went in there. In the erratic, an erratic state, to doomsday if you like. Just died in Australia.
HB: Oh, that’s a shame.
CM: I’ve still got — he gave me the book of poetry I’ve got down there somewhere. With his name in the front.
HB: Right.
CM: Johnny Lloyd. He was a very clever man. During the time we were there, the time we were hanging about. I’ll tell you about it. A chap who had been sent on leave to, to Ireland was court martialled and they want someone to take the case. And so Johnny said, ‘I’ve got nothing to do. I’ll take it.’ And he’d been sent on indefinite leave on this unit [unclear] To an escort unit. And he was sent on leave and they’d forgotten about him. They just kept on sending him a renewal of his leave and his money every fortnight. So of course he thought, well, the money’s coming in I must be on, still on indefinite leave.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Well, it lasted about two years this.
HB: Oh no.
CM: So anyway Johnny was, to cut an awful long story short he was, Johnny, he was a very good solicitor. Very good [unclear] He had the gift of the gab. A Welshman but a poetic Welshman.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And a solicitor. And he got, he got the chap off. It was the talk of the command.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Of 3 Group for a long time.
HB: Obviously, a well —
CM: Eloquent and [unclear] Put on a defence that they couldn’t penetrate. What could the man do? He was living in the neutral part of the, though he wasn’t in the war. He was there getting his regular payments and money and free meals and ration cards.
HB: Oh dear. Yeah.
CM: So he said what could he do? He must have been sickened. ‘I’m not doing the right thing but what can I do? If I go back now they’ll probably court martial me.’ Which is what they did when he did get back.
HB: So, Johnny. Johnny —
CM: So there you are. That’s an incidental.
HB: Yeah. No. No. No. It’s important. Johnny. Johnny. Johnny Lloyd was a popular man.
CM: Oh yes.
HB: Did you ever see him after the war?
CM: No.
HB: At all.
CM: Shirley and I —
HB: That was it.
CM: My wife and I went to this place of birth and every time we mentioned the word Johnny Lloyd everyone clamped up.
HB: Oh right.
CM: We got, we got the one chap who was at the boozer. The boozer. [unclear]
HB: Yeah.
CM: He knew Johnny and said he was a fine man but he said he didn’t get a job and he could be found on any any day any time on the street ends, ‘Can you give me sixpence for a cup of tea?’ But that’s a big blow to me as a chap who loved him. And Shirley who didn’t know, didn’t know him but to come across that sort of situation.
HB: Sad.
CM: So he went to Australia. Drank himself to death.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I did go to his house because I think one of his relatives still lived there but they wouldn’t, they wouldn’t talk to us.
HB: No.
CM: And Shirley, my wife could charm the birds out of a tree but even her eloquence couldn’t do it.
HB: No. That’s a shame.
CM: So what I did, my duty by him. I wanted to find out what really happened but I failed. Well, I knew that what the end was.
HB: You say, you say failed. I think you probably did your best.
CM: I can take you and show you a photograph of Johnny Lloyd. My script is, my computer has been u/s but I’ve got a photograph of my crew. The crew I finished my tour with and the one that was with Hill. But this one here was done on the Stirlings when he first came to the squadron.
HB: Right.
CM: And it’s a very good photograph which was of Johnny —
HB: That’s, that’s alright. We’ll grab the, grab the photo in a minute.
CM: In a minute.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Oh, I was going to turn the computer on. You know when it comes up —
HB: Don’t, don’t worry about that.
CM: Ok.
HB: We’ll sort that. We’ll sort that in a minute because what I wanted, what I wanted to do was was to get through. You’ve got —
CM: Operations.
HB: You’ve now got —
CM: Operations. Yeah.
HB: Another pilot —
CM: Yes.
HB: That you’re getting to know and learn. Now, you said earlier to me before we started the recording he was an experienced pilot.
CM: Johnny. Yes. He was at, oh for two years at an airfield. An Advanced Flying Unit.
HB: Right.
CM: Flying Ansons.
HB: This was Hill?
CM: That’s right. That was Johnny. But that’s, that’s appeared in the book of course, but he was a well-known pilot.
HB: Right.
CM: He was an exhibitionist through the routine. Very good at it.
HB: Oh right.
CM: But he wasn’t meant for operations. Johnny. He was poetic. He’s like that famous Dylan Thomas.
HB: Sorry. That’s Johnny. That’s Johnny Lloyd is it?
Other: We’ve moved on.
HB: Yeah.
Other: From Johnny Lloyd, dad.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Eh?
Other: We’ve moved on from Johnny Lloyd.
CM: We’ve —
HB: Right. So, it’s Johnny. So, so Hill.
CM: Yeah. Well, Hill —
HB: We’ve now got him as the pilot.
CM: He was an experienced pilot from the Far East err the Middle East.
HB: The Middle East.
CM: He’d had a tour of operations on Wellingtons.
HB: Right.
CM: So, when we got him —
HB: What was, what was his first name, Kit?
CM: First name? Bill.
HB: Bill. So that’s Bill Hill.
CM: That’s right.
HB: And he’d come to you from the Middle East.
CM: Yeah. He’d been in this country some time actually.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But he wasn’t trained on Lancasters and when we got him he was just an ex-Wellington pilot. And then we went to, through the, he did the Lancaster finishing course there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Change of direction with Bill Hill. Then back with, back to my old squadron again.
HB: And —
CM: 218.
HB: And really really quite quickly he’s in to an operation.
CM: That’s right. Because he was experienced.
HB: On New Year’s Eve 1944 to Vohwinkel, in the Ruhr Valley.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Wow. And you obviously, and then, and then you had to go, you did that in the daytime and then you had to go back and do it in the night time.
CM: That’s right. I remember that one.
HB: Blimey. And that, that’s yeah. You’re then really then in to doing quite a few of these operations.
CM: That’s right. That’s when, that’s when my tour really started, because —
HB: Yeah.
CM: Johnny sorry Bill Hill was determined to get through a tour. He wanted to do it as quickly as possible.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Yeah. He was a good.
HB: Well, he’s got a good team.
CM: He was an excellent pilot. He was an ex-deputy headmaster and he was only about twenty five.
HB: Oh right.
CM: He was a clever lad.
HB: Yeah.
CM: He used to do comic turns as well on the stage.
HB: Did he?
CM: Oh yes. And in the air. He keep coming back from operations Johnny err Bill, Bill Hill was witty with us all together. And also on Dresden I remember he said to me, he said, ‘Wireless operator.’ I said, ‘Yes, captain.’ He said, ‘Do you want to see a, see a sight you’ll never ever see in your life ever again?’ I said, ‘Well, yes.’ He said, ‘Well, just get in the astrodome and have a look down. Down stairs. Dresden.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was too. I’ve never seen anything. The first thing I saw when I was in the astrodome was smoke. Something you hadn’t even heard of. Smoke from the burning city coming past the aeroplane. But you could see the [unclear] of streets burning ferociously.
HB: What height would you be at there?
CM: Oh about twenty thousand feet.
HB: About twenty. Yeah.
CM: It varied twenty, between twenty one, twenty two, twenty three. It could be fifty feet.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was so that you wouldn’t — to lessen the risk of collision over the target.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because all the aircraft coming in on the markers from all directions, you know. Coming in.
HB: So you were at twenty thousand feet and you’re actually flying through the smoke.
CM: Yeah.
HB: From Dresden.
CM: So the smoke was so intense. The wooden mostly, part of the really beautiful buildings the wooden buildings were quite inflammable and they were set alight. And there it was.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Start the whole firestorm as they called it.
HB: Can you, can you remember what they told you on the briefing for Dresden?
CM: Yes. They said there were people in the town, the troops concentrating in the town. They said, not only that but not only ball bearings but some things very important mechanisms to further the war.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Radar and all sorts of things they had scattered all over Dresden. All sorts of other things. Now, our enemies are saying well it was a quiet town. It didn’t do anything at all. It wasn’t. It was very well armed but they didn’t have any, this late in the war all the guns had been taken away because the Germans thought oh they’re going to leave Dresden alone because it’s a wonderful city. They’re good that they, because that business with Churchill started off and Dresden, Chemnitz and Berlin and all these taken at this, we wrecked them all. Dresden was wrecked in one raid.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Eight hundred and fifty bombers.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Just saturation. It’s in there I think, is Dresden.
HB: Yes, yes. Yeah. I’ve got —
CM: Nine hours fifty minutes.
HB: Yeah. It’s got, it’s got marked in your book here. Dresden. Saturation raid. And Chemnitz.
CM: Yeah. Next day there wasn’t such a good raid because the weather was bad.
HB: Yeah. I’m just going to check because I think. I’m not sure about the batteries on this. Oh no, we’re alright for a minute.
Other: Dad.
HB: Alright for a minute.
Other: Would you like me to make you another cup of tea?
CM: Ask Mr, Mr Hartley. I presume you’d prefer to be called Harry.
HB: Harry.
CM: Harry.
Other: Harry would you like —
CM: In Geordieland you would be called called Harry Hartley.
Other: Daddy, would you like me to make you a cup of tea?
CM: Yes, dear. It’ll freshen up the one that.
Other: I’ll make you a fresh one.
HB: Right. So —
CM: I told you that was the thoughtful one, didn’t I?
HB: Yeah.
CM: She’s the more thoughtful one.
Other: Dad faces us off against each other as you’ve probably realised.
HB: Oh, I gathered that [laughs]
Other: Yeah.
HB: Right. So, yeah. So, we’ve got, he’s certainly rattling through the operations here because you’re, you’re talking for, this is February 1st 3rd 9th 13th 14th 18th 19th 23.
CM: That’s right. That was —
HB: And that’s operations every two or three days isn’t it?
CM: That’s right. That’s right.
HB: Right. And and that, so I mean that’s how it goes through to April ’45.
CM: Well, there you can see the tour, the tour expired citation. Can you see that? Tour expired.
HB: Hang on.
CM: It would be in the last few pages of my logbook.
HB: Yeah. First operational tour completed.
CM: That’s it.
HB: 9th of April.
CM: Just got to put a tour in before the end of the war.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because I was still, I was very young you know Mr Hartley. I was always, I wasn’t a kind of a middle aged old bastard. [laughs]
HB: Oh no. No.
CM: I was quite youthful.
HB: Oh no [laughs] I mean, I mean you were born in ’22.
CM: Yeah.
HB: And you’ve gone in there at what? Nineteen? Twenty?
CM: That’s right. That’s right. Nineteen.
HB: Nineteen. Right. And, and —
CM: I joined —
HB: Then you finished, you finished your tour there and —
CM: Kiel. It’s on the top of the —
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Your last one was Kiel.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Naval, the naval arsenal.
CM: And on that raid there’s the battle cruiser, German pocket battleship. The last one that was [unclear]. We sank that on that raid. It was moored in the Kiel Harbour. It was moored at the side of the quay and it turned over.
HB: Oh right.
CM: As well as other members of the Bomber Command which were much more [unclear] than me. They sank the Tirpitz in Trondheim harbour. It wasn’t me that did that.
HB: No
CM: But Bomber Command sank more battleships than the Navy.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It’s incredible that when you think of it.
HB: That’s amazing that. Right. So we’ve got — we’ve now gone to 90 Squadron at Tuddenham.
CM: Tuddenham. Yeah.
HB: But before we get there. Right. We were talking about girlfriends earlier on.
CM: Girlfriends. Not Tuddenham.
HB: We were talking about entertainment and dances and all this sort of business and this carry on.
CM: Scandals.
HB: No. No. No. I’m not after, I’m not after scandals.
CM: They’re not scandals.
HB: I’m not after scandals at all but if you want to tell me any scandals I’ll talk to you.
CM: There weren’t many scandals.
HB: But did you actually, looking at the picture on the wall you obviously met your wife during the war.
CM: No.
HB: No.
CM: No. I married my wife just after the war. My first wife.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And —
HB: And did you meet, did you meet your wife during the war?
CM: No. She was a girlfriend from home.
CM: Right.
HB: Jean Smith. Unfortunately, we were married for about, only about three or four months she became pregnant.
HB: Right.
CM: And about a few months after that she had a miscarriage and she had, she contracted tuberculosis. Galloping tuberculosis and within six weeks we knew she was going to die.
HB: Oh no.
CM: Just this, this galloping thing. You couldn’t. Just a few months after that they found a cure for tuberculosis. Even this severe one that Jean had. But it was too late for her.
HB: Was that when —
CM: She went down just like I’m doing, it happened to have, no matter what I eat I can still lose weight.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Just lose weight. But that’s the same with poor Jean no matter what she ate she turned in to a shadow and just faded away.
HB: And what, when was that? What —?
CM: That was in ’46 I think, really.
HB: 1946.
CM: Because I’d, I’d left the Air Force by then but I didn’t stay left because as soon as Jean died I thought well what the hell do I do? Going back to the steelworks. Three shift system, you know. I think I’ll go back there. I was very happy in the Air Force. So my father said well Jean I’m afraid that we weren’t going to keep her long like. So I wasn’t long in the when I left the Air Force I was sent home, you know, and she just died. So she died and I wasn’t the sort of man to hang around of course and I started going out before I met Shirley. My beloved wife. My really beloved wife. Married fifty seven years. Two children. And a beauty. Look at that photograph on your right hand side.
HB: Oh yes. I’ve, I’ve already seen the photos. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: And you see that on the wedding photograph I haven’t got the common sense to hold my wife by the hand. I said why couldn’t it, to anybody that sees that now, ‘Oh, you made a mess of that Kit lad.’ I said, ‘Why didn’t the photographer say for Christ’s sake. Hold your wife by the hand.’ Not hold your belt by the hand. But they didn’t. Now, if I’d been a photographer I think I would have said, ‘Hold your wife by the hand.’ Certain things, certain trades must do that’s to make sure that the pose is right.
HB: Yeah.
CM: However, it’s nice. You see my wife. She was only eighteen then.
HB: So where did you meet Shirley?
CM: Grimsby. I was stationed at Binbrook.
HB: Right.
CM: I figured out that for over five years I was in two Bomber Command squadrons.
HB: Right.
CM: 12 and 101.
HB: Right. Right. So, so when we’re, so let’s just go back to 218. You’re in 218.
CM: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: You’re based at Woolfox Lodge.
CM: Well, when tour expired the crew left. All the crew. Leaving me behind because I had just been promoted to warrant officer. They wanted a warrant officer to take charge of the parachute section. So they left me behind. And they said also, ‘You’ve done a few trips less than your crew. Therefore, you’ll be available for a spare.’
HB: Right.
CM: So I was, so I was a new warrant officer and I was still on the squadron.
HB: Right.
CM: Which had the parachute section.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But I had to pack that in deliberately because the chap in charge of the parachute section, genuinely head of the section itself came to me. He said, ‘Mac,’ I didn’t let the fact that he’d missed out the sir because I was a warrant officer by then. And he said, ‘They’ve got fifty parachutes not on inventory.’ Right. I said, ‘Yes,’ knowing what was coming. He said, ‘Well, if they’re not on the inventory they don’t belong to anyone.’ He said, ‘We could make ourselves a little bit of money here.’ I got a cold, I remember feeling a cold feeling. I’ve gone through a tour of operations. I’ve risked my life and I never knew, knowing the McVickers luck I was going to be found out before I could say one word I was going to be found out. So, I said, ‘No. I want nothing to do with this,’ and I went straight from there to my commanding officer at the station, not the station commander the one that’s responsible, and said, ‘I have a problem sir.’ He said, ‘What is it?’ I said, ‘It’s very personal sir but it’s taken me a long time to think about this.’ He said, ‘You’ve got, I think you’ve told me this you’d better get on with it. And I said, ‘My flight sergeant, he wants me to do a, about the inventory.’ I said, ‘I want absolutely nothing to do with it.’ He said, ‘You’ve done the right thing.’
HB: Right. Yeah.
CM: ‘You’ve done the right thing.’ And all that’s happened as far as I know he was just taken off. Taken off. Was posted.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I’ve shared this because I felt very guilty about this. He said, ‘It’s your duty to do that.’ So that was a bit of guilt in my life.
HB: Yeah.
CM: However, it is. It is. It was the right thing to do. If I’d been involved I would have lost my whole career on operations. All the medals would have [makes noise] you know.
HB: Yeah. Everything.
CM: So anyway I I don’t know whether that would figure in your synopsis but they’d say, ‘Was he a nice chap?’ ‘No, in all my years he was a bastard after all.’ You know.
HB: No. No. No. No. What, I mean what obviously what you’re now telling me is, is this is, this is at the end of the war and there’s big, obviously a big change of attitudes.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Now. So, and and you’re posted out to Conversion Units and you, and you eventually end up at Binbrook.
CM: That’s right.
HB: As a warrant officer there. And I mean there you’ve, it’s still very intensive. Even in 1947 you’re still flying. Flying an awful lot.
CM: Oh, that’s right. Flying was there. That was still a bomber squadron.
HB: Yeah.
CM: In fact I used to say to Mike Chalk my friend, he said, ‘We’re the only two buggers that, we’re the only two wireless operators left on the squadron.’ I said, ‘We can’t be operational.’ Then the Korean war came up and we had, we had not only Binbrook but all the crews there were no more than you could purpose with four or five to crew. Couldn’t make up proper crews.
HB: Oh right.
CM: So, by this time they started the new ranks. I don’t know if you know anything about this. Because this is something that should be very interesting to you. What happened immediately after the war. If you look at this photograph here.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Take a little look standing up, Harry.
HB: Oh no, I’ve seen that one.
CM: And what do you see on the arm of your favourite flight sergeant? By that time ranks had changed and I was, can you see that rank?
HB: That’s. Is that, is that the change to master.
CM: No. That was the master. That was signaller 1. Three. Three stars and a crown.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Now, that was the same as flight sergeant. I’d been reduced to flight sergeant anyway so they reduced me even further to signaller 1 which was the same as a flight sergeant. So anyway, it resulted in a mass exodus.
HB: Right.
CM: Of people. Some of the officers had been given a commission by an interview and there they were walking around. Didn’t touch them at all.
HB: Right.
CM: So people got fed up with this because there were still more NCOs than officers and of course they were leaving in droves. The next we knew that’d, just over two years and the next thing we knew was revert. Take the stripes off, take the stars off, revert back to whatsaname, whatever that indicated. And in my case it was flight sergeant so put flight sergeant stripes on. Same as there.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So —
HB: Got one there.
CM: Not many people know about this.
HB: No. No.
CM: At the same time it’s a very important aspect of Bomber Command after the war. Not only Bomber Command but all the Commands.
HB: Yeah. Yes.
CM: All aircrew. The NCOs were given a kick in the teeth and shat on from a very great height.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Now, they recognise that there’s been that but they promised there’d be recognised, all that they should be kept the aircrew separate from the sergeants but it was good that way but what we sort of did was the complete dislocation of all the squadrons of Bomber Command. They didn’t have, they didn’t have a Bomber Command.
HB: No.
CM: By this. Not very much talked about that but I can show you letters I’ve written there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: About this.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And I think this is relevant.
HB: It is. It’s all, it’s all relevant. It is all relevant.
CM: You didn’t know about this and yet you’re an interviewer.
HB: No.
CM: You can see it there.
HB: No.
CM: Passed the —
HB: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Because it was only because I had certificate that I was married. Jean. You’ve seen Jane.
HB: Yeah.
CM: My other daughter. That’s her as a baby. That’s in —
HB: So that so that, that’s occurring as the Korean war’s —
CM: That’s right.
HB: Brewing up.
CM: Though Bomber Command wasn’t involved at all in the Korean war.
HB: No. No.
CM: Because they couldn’t be. They didn’t have enough crews. Now, you see that must have hit the people who organised this. It must have hit them with a hell of a wallop. They were responsible for the absolute the demolition of one of the most powerful weapons known to history. The Bomber Command was as you know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Far bigger than the American Air Force in, in its numbers. And don’t forget they made big mistakes, the Americans at the beginning of the war. They thought they could fight the fighters off. They couldn’t.
HB: No.
CM: They shot a lot of fighters down but they couldn’t fight them off.
HB: No.
CM: They lost fifty aircraft, fifty each on two of the ball bearing plants at Schweinfurt.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s a hundred and twenty aircraft. No. A hundred aircraft. A hundred aircraft.
HB: Yeah.
CM: These B17s. There were only them that you can recognise and of course Bomber Command and I think my God and they introduced this new rank and they all kept going out in droves and asking to get premature release. We’ve destroyed a really good Air Force. That, that is never talked about.
HB: No.
CM: But I talked about it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I wrote a letter [unclear] a student.
HB: Yeah.
CM: You’ll have to come again. I put it all down in black and white.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And I’ll show it to you. You might, you might create a, Mr Hartley what’s known as a coup.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Because nobody else knows about it.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: And I’ll show you something and you might think after all you must have the better interviewing technique. You speak with posh language but you didn’t get this information.
HB: No. No. That’s true.
CM: You flashed a photograph of me out in my, in my James Bond days. I was auditioning for James Bond [laughs] You see.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Things are made in —
HB: Was this occurring after you’d gone to the instructor’s school? Or before?
CM: It was, it happened if you look at my logbook it says it should be ‘47.
HB: So I’ve got you going, I’ve got you going to Scampton in July ’47.
CM: That’s right. I was on detachment there.
HB: On Lincolns.
CM: That’s right. Because all the Bomber Command was on, at Binbrook.
CM: All Lincolns.
HB: Yeah.
CM: All Lincolns.
HB: And so was, so the time you’re talking about when they decimated the NCO level.
CM: Yeah. Yeah.
HB: Is that before ’47 or after?
CM: Well, it was 1948.
HB: Oh right. Right.
CM: I was married in ’48 look at the bit.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Even though I’m wearing a, what’s, look carefully a warrant officer’s uniform right. If you look carefully you can just see the badge.
HB: Yeah. With the circle.
CM: But we were allowed to wear the officer’s uniform because at that time there was a hell of a shortage of uniforms.
HB: Oh right.
CM: And just keep on wearing it until as soon as we get new uniform. So there we were parading around as warrant officers even though we weren’t. And eventually we had to have the warrant officers tapes off and put the whatsanames on, but that was very humiliating you know Harry.
HB: Yes, I can imagine.
CM: And just you remember especially the warrant officer suddenly got bumped to sergeant’s stripes. Stars instead of stripes.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was just humiliating in the extreme. There was a tremendous amount of ill hateful feeling about it in the squadrons. They detested the officer who kept the, nobody who kept their own rank.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And at the same, they graduated as officers, they graduated as, but the same, exactly the same training. Exactly the same job.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Yet they were left alone.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And that of course that led to tremendous resentment.
HB: Yes, I can imagine.
CM: But regardless of what happens in this interview I will dig out certainly this for your own personal viewing.
HB: Yeah. Oh, I’d be, no, I’d be, I’ll be interested in that. I’ve got a — I don’t know if I’ve read this right. I’ve got you here in your book. In your, in your logbook at number 100 Torpedo Bomber Squadron, Hemswell.
CM: That’s right. That was the squadron when I came and joined the Air Force. I was posted to Hemswell. Hemswell was.
HB: Is this when you, when you rejoined?
CM: When I rejoined the Air Force.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Yeah.
HB: And that was August. I’ve got August ‘47.
CM: ’47 would be.
HB: August ‘47 for that. Yeah. And then it goes. And then it goes through. Were you instructing there?
CM: No. At Binbrook, no. I was a —
HB: No. At Hemswell.
CM: At Hemswell.
HB: With the torpedo bombers.
CM: That was a detachment, I think. No. That was at, this was what was the squadron name at the top?
HB: It just says number 100 torpedo bomber squadron.
CM: That’s right. That’s right. That’s Hemswell.
HB: At Hemswell.
CM: I was just attached to the squadron. Binbrook was being resurfaced.
HB: Ah right. Right. That — yeah. Yeah. Because then you returned to Binbrook.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah. I see what you, I see what that, I see what that does. So you’ve come through to ‘47 ’48.
CM: That’s right. Yeah.
HB: And you’ve gone to 12, 12 Squadron.
CM: 12. That’s right. Famous squadron.
HB: At Binbrook.
CM: VCs. The VCs were the two men who sacrificed their lives at the bridges at the invasion. You know, they bombed the bridges and both were killed, attacking success of one of those bridges and they both got VCs. But they’re all [unclear] the Fairey Battle this was.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
CM: At the beginning of the war. But the airman that was flying with them wasn’t a sergeant. He was an LAC so the thing is this. The argument that he was an LAC. Therefore he wasn’t entitled to a DFC but as a LAC he wasn’t entitled but also quite obviously to the DFM which the two sergeants had got. The VC, sorry the two sergeants had got. He got nothing, but the LAC was doing the exactly the same job as the pilot and the navigator who got, two got VCs. They couldn’t leave him out and isolate as if he’d done nothing. God knows what acts of bravery he would have done, but they didn’t. They just a little kind of, little bit of [unclear ] but they got VCs and he got nothing at all. That was quite a bit, that was at 12 Squadron. That was a squadron to which I belonged at that time. The chap called Norris [unclear] and on Pampas and Seaweeds.
HB: Yeah.
CM: We did, did a lot of Mousetrap trips on those squadrons
HB: Yeah. I noticed. I noticed that in your —
CM: Pampas.
HB: Operation Pampas. Yeah.
CM: And on one of those trips we met the Queen Mary in 17 degrees west and Nogger said, he said to the crew, ‘This a chance I wouldn’t miss for a thousand years.’ A thousand pounds. I’m not sure which. I think it was pounds. And we said, ‘Yes, Nogger,’ because we were all in awe of him. He was a skilful pilot.
HB: Which, which was he?
CM: We did an exhibition of flying to the occupants of the Queen Mary that they’d never seen in their life. Much better than you’d ever see in the —
HB: Yeah.
CM: He did everything.
HB: Was his name Norris?
CM: Nogger Norris. Yeah.
HB: Nogger Norris.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Right. Yeah.
CM: And I took a photograph of the Queen Mary but it was taken with my father in law’s box brownie camera. So, it was, even though I was pretty close to it it looks as though it was farther away.
HB: Yes. Yeah.
CM: But when we took the photograph with one of these alongside, Giles the cartoonist was on board the Queen Mary. Right.
HB: Right.
CM: He was on board.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And he, and Giles saw this, he saw this going on. This kind of shooting up. And he drew a cartoon of it and on the cartoon you could see the Lincoln aircraft 17 degrees west shooting up very close to the Queen Mary. In caricature. In drawing.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So, we didn’t know about that. So when we got back after all this shooting up and God knows what. I lost my trailing aerial as well. Is it in the book?
HB: There’s a thing in here. It just says trailing aerial struck by lightning.
CM: Do you see how many hours it is?
HB: Eight hours thirty five.
CM: Eight hours.
HB: Yeah.
CM: All through the Pampas you’ll see they’re all about six hours. So, the captain —
HB: Yeah.
CM: We came back late wanted to know exactly where we’d been for the two hours that’s missing. So Nogger Norris knowing this, before we landed said, ‘Don’t forget chaps. We haven’t seen the Queen Mary. Ok.’ So, when we landed we kept our buzz. A good crew. We kept it mum.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So the first thing that happened was the flight sergeant in charge of the ground staff got Nogger and [unclear] over to see the where my aerial left the aircraft. And my aerial left the aircraft, came down the, fair lead from the reel, down where we sat through the hole in the bottom of the aircraft and about three or four inches down at the fuselage it had welded itself onto the side of the fuselage about nine feet. It was nine feet along the fuselage, just up the fuselage, welded and beyond that there was a little nidge of about an inch and a half sticking up and it was beautifully rounded at the end. And the flight sergeant said to Nogger and I, he said, ‘That takes a bit of power to do that.’ To do that.
CM: Yeah.
CM: It takes a few volts to do that.’
CM: Yeah.
CM: I thought, Christ almighty all those millions of volts within two feet of my Charlie.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So, anyway it was interesting at nine o’clock the following Monday morning. This was a Friday night, Friday morning. The commanding officer [unclear] there, Nogger there and me here and the other navigator Chuck. I can’t remember his name now. It’s a terrible thing. Those names would have come easily six years ago.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: And just as he started I was right though about these missing two hours. And suddenly the shutters opened at the back and the adjutant popped his head through. He said, ‘Sir. Sir.’ He said, ‘Adj, I told I wasn’t to be disturbed for the next, the next hour.’ He said, ‘I think you’d like being disturbed by what I’ve got to show you.’ So, he said, ‘What is it? What is it?’ So the Adj took something in from the fellas and said give it to the commanding officer. And [unclear] remembered stern faced [pause] And I saw his face changing from stern to kind of a little smile at the edge of his face. And eventually [laughs]
HB: Yeah.
CM: He said, ‘Nogger,’ gave him the papers, ‘I know exactly what you were doing for those two hours.’ And of course it ended up with laughter. Because no harm had been done.
HB: No.
CM: And there was the, Giles with his family aboard the, the Queen Mary and on the side of the ship you see a beautiful sketch of the our aircraft. Can you believe that?
HB: I can. I can believe it.
CM: I cut it out, put it in my logbook and it rotted for the next twenty years. and just rotted away. And when we decided to put these down, these things down in print I realised that I didn’t have this. Now all my family, all my, have you seen them, have you seen them?
HB: Yeah.
CM: And others as well have tried to get copies of that. It’s not, it’s not to be got. Even the people getting back, the back, the numbers of the aircraft, of the Daily Express.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: It wasn’t there either. But Fiona looked up my career in the Air Force list as a warrant officer in the air force list she found it wasn’t listed and it said not to be released until 2022.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. It’ll be, it’ll be in the Official Secrets Act.
CM: So, so because that’s nothing to do with the Queen Mary. It also stopped me from having any contact with other things attached to that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So that I didn’t get it. Peter particularly at the museum museum archives but they couldn’t get that.
HB: No.
CM: But somebody’s got it. So I couldn’t make a proper story about it because I didn’t have the proof. Because people would say, ‘Oh yes, I’ve seen that. Oh yes. Indeed.’
HB: Yeah.
CM: But that was it.
HB: So then.
CM: I’m listening.
HB: We get to 1949 and we’re off to shorts.
Shorts and topi and off to the sunshine in Egypt.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Was that, what was —
CM: Shallufa. Then we went there and Bomber Command went there after the war. For a month every, like six or seven months I was there. Eight or nine months.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The desert was good weather. It was good flying weather.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s what was good. That’s what we went for. Took off from Shallufa and we did El Shatt. I always thought that couldn’t be the proper name. El Shatt. E L S H A T T. El Shatt. I was ashamed of putting it in my logbook [laughs] Bombing range.
HB: And yeah like you say just there for a few months and then you know what what accommodation did you live in in Egypt then? For those few months.
CM: Nissen. Nissen.
HB: In the Nissen hut.
CM: Well, the Nissen was corrugated iron. They were small.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Plenty of wood there and that sort of stuff.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. And then you’re back to —
CM: Don’t forget that Shallufa in the winter was colder. It was colder in Shallufa than it was in Binbrook.
HB: Yeah. I can, oh I can believe that. Yeah.
CM: By God, I’ve experienced some cold. Literally shivered. And shivered all night.
HB: Yeah.
CB: Couldn’t get warm.
HB: And you’re back to Binbrook.
CM: That’s right. Detachment you see.
HB: Yeah.
CM: [unclear] 12 Squadron detachment and 101 Squadron detachment.
HB: And then [pause] this is where the change comes isn’t it? In 1949. Because you go to Scampton on a Conversion Unit.
CM: Scampton. That’s right.
HB: And then. And then you go to 101. Binbrook.
CM: That’s right. I went back to Scampton because that was the Lancaster Finishing School then.
HB: Right.
CM: Right. So, that led to the —
HB: Yeah. Oh. Yeah. You did say. You did say that. Sorry I just need to keep checking this. The batteries.
CM: They won’t be able to understand a word I’ve said, Harry.
HB: Well I can understand you and that’s all that’s all, that’s all that’s important.
CM: You’re nearly a, you’re nearly a Geordie yourself.
Other: Dad.
CM: Yes, dear.
Other: In ten minutes I’ve got, I’ve got an appointment.
CM: Fiona, darling, I thought you’d gone. Didn’t you think she’d gone, Harry?
Other: No. I’m sitting here but in ten minutes I’m going to have to go because I’ve got an appointment in Ashby at 2. So I’ll go on my appointment.
CM: That’s right.
Other: It’s just, it’s just the flats.
CM: Make sure Harry’s alright. A glass of whisky maybe.
Other: Can I get you anything at all, Harry?
HB: No. No. I’m fine. I’m fine.
Other: Would you like another drink?
HB: As long, as long, as long as Kit is alright.
Other: He’s got his cup of tea. Dad has his lunch at —
CM: The only thing that’s wrong with me is ninety five [unclear]
Other: Dad has his breakfast really late like, you know sort of late late so he has his meal, his lunch sort of often about 4.30. So he’s —
CM: Oh yes. That’s it.
Other: But, so I will come back, dad after I’ve done my appointment.
CM: Yeah. Ok.
Other: My son is wanting to buy a flat in Ashby.
CM: Right.
Other: And we’ve got an appointment to look around it with him.
HB: Right.
Other: Just to see what we think. And we cancelled it yesterday because we got stuck in traffic. So I’ll go.
HB: Well, what, what I’ll probably do is.
Other: I’ll come back.
HB: I’ll finish the interview and then I’ll contact you later and let you know how we’re going to come back.
CM: That’s right. I said to —
Other: You’re most welcome if you think you —
CM: Fiona said, ‘Oh he won’t, he’s not interested at all in what you did after the war. He’s not interested in,’ this and that. And I said, ‘You don’t know what he’s interested in until he comes.’ I thought about this because that is something that I think is very, that people should know about.
HB: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Other: It’s an interesting one.
CM: The dirty trick that the Bomber Command well not just bomber but the Air Force generally.
HB: But it, it’s that transition period we are also interested in.
Other: Yes.
HB: Because we’re going from a time of world war.
Other: Yeah. Conflicts.
CM: That’s right
HB: Into a peacetime and policing operations.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Of, you know Korea and all those.
CM: That’s one of the reasons why we never got the medals. Can’t you see that. We can’t demote them, treat them as S H I T and then kind of go we’ll give them medals as well.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Couldn’t do it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So that was what the fuss was about. We didn’t. We were not even honoured in Bomber Command.
HB: Yeah. Well, it’s a quarter past one. I’m going to just stop the tape for a minute while —
CM: Ok.
HB: Your daughter goes.
HB: And then I’ll restart it in a —
Other: And if you wish —
[recording paused]
HB: Right. We’re recommencing the interview. We have had cups of tea and a comfort breaks. So we’ve moved on now to around about 1952 at RAF Watton in 192 Squadron.
CM: Central. Central Signals Establishment to use its full name.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s to mask what it actually did. It was a spy squadron.
HB: Right.
CM: But Central Signals Establishment gave it a kind of fancy name but [unclear] believe anything if you like. Not a hundred percent anyway.
HB: That might, that might answer the question. In your logbook you’re flying with Flight Lieutenant Neil.
CM: Yeah. Flight lieutenant. He was, that was on Super Fortresses. In other words B29s.
HB: B29s.
CM: I’m an ex, an ex-Boeing B29 wireless operator.
HB: Yeah. Were they called Washingtons?
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The Washington was an American name for an American aircraft.
HB: Right.
CM: But we called them Washingtons. American but it was also British.
HB: Right.
CM: So there was a Washington [unclear] married them both together.
HB: So in your logbook it says your duty on [pause] in at the end of 1952 was left scanner and right scanner and special operator.
CM: Spec op. That’s what you called spec ops because you did this job I was telling you about. I don’t know whether I’ll be shot at dawn about this but it’s still secret. Top secret. But it was literally finding out the frequencies of the radars and the special operations. We did that. Once we got that we could be able to jam it. To jam it. And once you knew where the frequency was on the end of the spectrum you could put a jam in there and make it impossible to operate.
HB: So who’s, who’s radars were you trying to discover?
CM: Yeah. But I don’t know how you can’t mention that without breaking the Official Secrets.
HB: You won’t break the Official Secrets Act now.
CM: Yeah. As I said in this Fiona found out that nothing’s to be divulged about me personally in the Air Force until 2022. My hundredth birthday. So you make that of what you will.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: But the B29 as I say were a joy to fly after Lincolns. We used to, we used Lincolns to Watton before that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But the B29 was a luxurious aircraft. Do you know that it was separated by a tunnel? There’s the front end of the aircraft right the co-pilot, the captain and the engineer and all this but the back end of the aircraft was nothing else but spec ops. Right.
HB: Right.
CM: And the whole thing was connected like, like two bellows. The front bit was pressurised. There was a tunnel going over the bomb bay to the rear compartment. So to get from the front to the rear they crawled along the tunnel.
HB: Oh right.
CM: It was from here to well just beyond the window there you know.
HB: So you’re talking —
CM: No bigger. No bigger than that wide.
HB: So you’re talking a good twelve fourteen feet then of tunnel.
CM: That’s right. So getting there hurt your knees crawling up and down so people didn’t tend to go forward. Anyway, the two people at the back were about that stationed from the observer point.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s the back end of the tunnel. To see, to be able to see the engines, all the engines, the flaps. Right. And the undercarriage. They couldn’t see them from the front.
HB: Oh right.
CM: Even the engineer. So I was the left scanner and right scanner but the eyes for the engineer who couldn’t keep on crawling back and forwards along the tunnel.
HB: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So important.
HB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CM: So I always went for the right scanner because I felt that it was the one place to be to keep a good lookout for the —
HB: Right.
CM: And sway up and down left scanner, right scanner. Otherwise it would be, you couldn’t put spec op. You could be spec op, yes. But on transit you were just kind of sat sitting. You used to fly from Watton to Nicosia in Cyprus and then fly from there the next day with all these aerials. There was an armed guard when we landed in Nicosia and the aircraft was never ever left alone. And the next day we would take off with the full crew of course and the trip would be about, we’d be down there eleven hours, twelve hours doing nothing else but scanning all the frequencies. Picking up their radars. You had to be very lucky because they knew when there was spy aircraft around. They’d switch off. But they had to switch on to see where that spy aircraft was. So watching out all ready to go because it only took a few seconds. It was on. You recognised it. You’d press a button. The camera would take a photograph.
HB: Right.
CM: So I scanned the photograph and the recording and did this virtually the same thing as sitting at home and doing this thing with you, because as we were doing that the recording, they’d take it back to Watton and you’d see it properly. You didn’t see it.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: They had —
HB: Yeah.
CM: Yeah. Boffins.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Boffins. Whatever they are.
HB: Yeah. The boffins.
CM: Boffins.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So it was an important job and I think I was part of the Cold War as well as the hot war. So that should —
HB: Yeah.
CM: Be a footnote of that thing that I said. Mr McVickers bravely advanced for the, to be a spec op and took part in the Cold War. Which I did.
HB: Well that’s right. I mean, I mean it’s, it’s very obvious from your logbook that —
CM: I’m a lying bastard.
HB: No. Oh, no. No. No. No. Nowhere near. No. You’ve certainly, you’ve certainly done a bit. I mean there’s, there’s a section here that’s quite fascinating because in the middle of doing your spec ops and whatnot you go to the School of Marine Reconnaissance.
CM: No. No. That was when I was posted there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So when you’re posted you’re still kind of doing whatever you were doing beforehand.
HB: Right.
CM: They sometimes overlapped a bit before you went and it’s doing middle of the road.
HB: Yeah.
CM: A flew flights, you know. That’s what it amounts to.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The School of Maritime Reconnaissance now.
HB: Yes.
CM: The Royal Air Force, St Mawgan, Newquay, Cornwall. It should be on top of the whatsthename —
HB: Yeah.
CM: That was, that was a five months course. Now within, after doing four months to start the flying phase of it the CO sent for me and said they were very very short of flyers at 224 Squadron. I said, ‘What do you mean, sir?’ He said, ‘They desperately need a signaller.’ And I said, ‘I really am not the person to pick. I’ve been off the flying for five years. I’ve done no flying on this and I’m on a course. I’m on a [unclear] aircraft radar work at all.’ ‘Nevertheless,’ he said, ‘You can, with all your experience could pick it up with no trouble at all.’ That wasn’t true. When I got to 224 Squadron which was down there if you looked at 224 squadron —
HB: I’ve got 22 —
CM: Not 224.
HB: I’ve got 220.
CM: That’s the one. 220 Squadron.
HB: 220 Squadron.
CM: 220 Squadron.
HB: Yeah. St Eval.
CM: St Eval.
HB: St Eval.
CM: And that’s —
HB: That was on Shackletons.
CM: Well, within, within about a fortnight they realised that I wasn’t trained on the radar and the radar was the most important thing. I wasn’t trained on it. So I thought — I was in a hell of a state. And I told the commanding officer that I’m really not trained for this work. But I’ve just been sent. I’d no idea at all why I was sent there because Cornish the commanding officer said to me, ‘We don’t need you. We don’t need any training chaps, we’re fully, fully committed.’ So I thought what the hell is going on here?
HB: Yeah.
CM: I think, now during the time I was there they sent me to to Mount Batten. Now Mount Batten was the headquarters of Coastal Command. And I was replacing a man who was doing Anson flying. Supposed to be an instructor. A very important instructor flying from station to station and everything. And the man had gone sick for something. Obviously transitory. But when I appeared on the scene he suddenly made a remarkable recovery.
HB: Right.
CM: So I was stuck there at Mount Batten [unclear] let’s get it right here because Mount Batten is the commanding. This is the most important place in Coastal Command. Why don’t you use that to do something for yourself? So I went to see the postings department which posted all the people in Coastal Command. Everything was done from there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And I flannelled one of the, with the WAAF officers who were there. I said I’m in a bit of a dilemma here Miss, Ma’am and explained what had happened and everything, ‘Oh,’ she said, ‘I think we can probably do something for you. What would you like to do?’ So I said, ‘Well, there’s one Neptune station dealing with nothing else but Neptunes. Lockheed Neptunes.’ I said, ‘This is based in Topcliffe in Yorkshire and would be ideal for me for getting home and everything else and also picking up, because I’d been on a course, picking up on what had left out in being mid-course. ’I said ‘Perfect solution, She said. She said to me ‘Your next course. I’ll put your name down. I’ll put your name down now. So it’s finished. Nothing has happened. You go.’
HB: Right.
CM: So when I went back to the station. St Eval. 220 Squadron. I could say to the people I’m posted. You know. I obviously shouldn’t have been here in the first place. I’ve been reposted. So I was gash again. I was completely gash. And I just spent my time sitting in the mess and making myself a bloody nuisance where ever I went, you know. And soon enough, as soon as the [unclear] came up I got the posting off to go to Kinloss to do the Neptune course.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I was on Neptunes for two and a half years. The best aircraft I’ve ever flown in my life.
HB: And what was, what was the Neptune?
CM: Lockheed Neptune. I’ll show you what.
HB: Oh, that was, it was —
CM: Lockheed was the one before the Boeing, well after the Boeing but —
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Because obviously you’d been flying on Shackletons.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And then you go to Neptune.
CM: I’m afraid it will have to wait now for the next time you come actually.
HB: Oh, no, don’t worry about that. I’ve found. Yeah. I’ve found Topcliffe now. Yeah. With Coastal Command.
CM: That’s right. It’s all Coastal Command.
HB: Yes.
CM: That’s a Bomber Command Lincoln. That’s one of the Lincolns. If you look at the SR is the code letters.
HB: Right.
CM: The code letters for 101 Squadron.
HB: Right.
CM: We, I was on B flight there, George [ ] was the co-pilot and the bomb aimer in the astrodome. That’s me. Best photograph I’ve ever had taken. You see they get access to the photograph.
HB: Yeah.
CM: What had happened, there had been an aircraft sent to take photographs of the villages and towns actually but the photographer being a clever little bugger he said it would far better if you had an aircraft superimposed and we happened to be airborne SR 101 Squadron.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Doing bombing at Wainfleet range. So, they called us up, ‘Are you finished there?’ ‘Oh, we’re finish in a few minutes.’ They said, ‘Go through to Cleethorpes and rendezvous with this aircraft that’s taken —'
HB: Oh right.
CM: And that’s how we got it.
HB: That’s how they took the photo.
CM: It’s a good photograph of Cleethorpes. You can see the [unclear]
HB: And that’s the, that’s the Lincoln aircraft. Right. Yeah.
CM: And that’s the Lincoln, that’s right. And that’s me.
HB: And that’s you in the astro.
CM: No matter how, no matter how vague it is that’s me. It’s one of the —
HB: Well, you need, you need to put that in the pile for, to copy. And that one definitely. Right. So, right we’ve got you, got you in Topcliffe and you’ve done rocketry and all those sort of things and then —
CM: Made drops to the weather ships.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Weather trips. All that sort of thing.
HB: So, I mean you were at Topcliffe a good, a good long time weren’t you?
CM: Two and a half years. I did a full tour.
HB: Yeah.
CM: On Neptunes.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But I was the first. The first They took one, one squadron member from each squadron. At least one. One member and posted them separately just to see if it could be done. Suddenly they found themselves with all these Neptune crews. No pilot could have told us yarns, you know [laughs]
HB: Oh right.
CM: So, so the experiment they took the flight sergeant McVickers, that was me and Flight Sergeant Chalmers and another one called flight sergeant [pause] Oh I can’t remember his name. But [unclear] squadron, just us three people on a course on Neptunes.
HB: Yeah.
CM: [unclear]
HB: It’s alright. I’m just, I’m just double checking the battery. Make sure the battery’s still alright. Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah that’s an aspect that we don’t, that’s an aspect we don’t sort of come across, you know. Obviously they’re trying out different ways of putting.
CM: That’s it. Well, you see we’re flying there but tac incident said put that new chap Flight Sergeant McVickers on the —
HB: Yeah.
CM: A cold chill went down my spine. Because I hadn’t had any — I’d had exams. I’d had the exams instructions on the radars. The APS 20 and things like that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But I didn’t have the practical. I’d never used it in the air. So I mean, to ask you to sit down and do something from scratch which I didn’t even know how to switch on, you know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Anyway, they forgave me for all that and telling me off and I did alright for two and a half years.
HB: So, so Neptunes. The Neptune. I mean, it goes, it’s obviously a well used aircraft.
CM: I’ll show you a photograph.
HB: For that.
CM: You’ve never seen anything like it.
HB: For that.
CM: It was the most luxurious aircraft I’ve ever seen in my life. Neptune. Never. There was one of these commanding officers, ‘Oh you can’t take photographs.’ [pause] Yes. If you come again. I know now what you’re after I’ll have anything ready.
HB: No. No. No. Worry not. Worry not about that. I mean the important thing is getting your, your story.
CM: Operations.
HB: Yeah. Absolutely. So, now, we’ve gone, you’ve gone to Kinloss in [pause] you’ve been on the Shackleton course. That’s in ’56. 1956.
CM: What was that in 1956?
HB: That was, that was you were at Kinloss in ’56.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Doing a course.
CM: Yeah.
HB: A Shackleton course.
CM: Yeah. That would be the Neptune course because there was flying attached to that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: We were flying on those. On Neptunes.
HB: And then [coughs] excuse me. You’ve got [pause] ’56 you’re off to 224 at Gibraltar.
CM: Gibraltar. Yeah. 224 Squadron.
HB: And that’s on Shackletons. Where were, where were you operating then from Gibraltar?
CM: Well, once again I’ve got to show you this. The base of Gibraltar. The base of the rock there’s an open space. And you can imagine the north face, they always shows the north face in Gibraltar so that’s the face facing north. Right in front of the north face of Gibraltar they built a runway. The sea is at one end at Algecirus Bay and then extended in to the rocks so the whole thing, was not enough room for a proper runway but they kept on building it out to sea, out towards Algecirus, Spain. So there was a long enough runway. Our photographs you can see sticking out of the Bay.
HB: Yeah. So, so you were you were obviously looking at your logbook you were flying out of there regularly. Did you cover the Mediterranean and —
CM: That’s right.
HB: Western approaches or —
CM: The Med, did cover the Med but also as you say the Western Mediterranean, but we did all the trips to Malta and Corsica and Sardinia and visiting there. North Africa of course.
HB: Yes.
CM: Is on the right hand side as you go along. So a lot of trips just landing there. Anyway, I did the exercise. Managed to survive. Became quite proficient at the radar but you know I thought that’s not fair for me. I’m cast out of my course.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Which I would have joined the squadron with the crew as to be a signalman. A signalman. It would be good to replace that man as a special job and he made an immediate recovery. The best thing that ever happened to him was me appearing. So I mean, he thought, oh Christ and he recovered.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was a cushy job.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I mean this is what sort of comes through in your logbook is you’ve got this level of consistency going through now.
CM: That’s right. I did.
HB: And, and as, as an air signaller and you were going through here [pause] sorry. What did I just notice? Yeah. That was something caught my eye. In 1957 you were doing communication trials with HM submarine Subtle.
CM: That’s right. I went to one trip to Ballykelly. We went, this chap and my number two and my signals team, we went to this submarine. HMS Subtle [unclear]
HB: Yeah.
CM: And we went for a full day in a submarine. One of the, well one of the most enlightening experiences I’ve ever had.
HB: Yeah. So you actually went in the submarine.
CM: Yes. I’ll tell you something else. I’ve lifted the periscope up. Transferred, transferred into — I’ve watched the submarine sink from, from the periscope area.
HB: Yeah.
CM: They gave us two a really wonderful experience of a submarine. [unclear]
HB: Yeah.
CM: Which was invaluable for, that’s what we were there for. Submarine killers.
HB: Yeah.
CM: In Coastal Command that’s what we did. We looked for submarines and sank them.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So we were gaining experience that was something good. And they showed us, the crew showed us the biggest pile of pornographic material, photographs I’ve ever seen in my life. It was about this big. And the [unclear] as well. God, it really embarrassed me.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I never seen. Every angle. Every possible. I thought these people are all sex maniacs. Because we were getting it regular. This was the [laughs]
HB: Yeah. The, the where — what I’m, what I’m what I’m interested in is you started your career in wireless ops and wireless operator in the ‘40s and we’re now in to the late 50s.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Coming up to the 60s.
CM: New equipment is coming up.
HB: So all of that equipment as it comes along I mean, was it every time new equipment you came out you had to go on a training course?
CM: No.
HB: Or did you a lot of on —
CM: No. If there was something radical, something completely different you’d go on a training course, because nobody could do anything about it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And the men in the latter part were the men that got the Air Ministry details, put everything down, the whole thing. They’d learned from there. Then they’d teach the people who were going through the courses. That’s right. So the radar, the equipment on the Neptune aircraft is so far advanced that until just recently in the last ten or fifteen years it was still being used in the spy planes.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was so accurate. The APS 20 it was called. Air Pulse Search.
HB: Air Pulse Search. Oh right. Yeah.
CM: Ever heard of that? Air Pulse Search.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And the other one in the part of the wings, took part of the wings. One had the APS 30, the APS 31 and yet that’s just the system where you could lock on to an aircraft and home on the aircraft. Or anything. A ship.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Very very accurately with the APS 31. So the APS 31 and the APS 20 made perfect for long distance. They were used for aircraft coming in. The APS 20. An aircraft designed by the Americans for their aircraft, the Neptune was the aircraft used by us for long distance search except for the big fighter stations.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Air defence of Great Britain stations. They had their own.
HB: I’m interested in a note here in your logbook, Kit for [pause] we’re talking March 1958. And it’s something I’ve not seen anywhere else. You’ve suddenly got a list of it says, this is the 6th of March — anti-submarine air offensive operations.
CM: That’s right. It’s the whole squadron.
HB: A large [unclear] of those.
CM: The submarines, our submarines had taken the place of enemy submarines.
HB: Right.
CM: But about the German expression. They were enemy submarines. We had to find them. So they’d been given —
HB: Right.
CM: We had a good idea what they were using in submarines but we had to find out. In other words we had taken our submarines as being enemy submarines. We had to find out all about them.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Well, that was really good training.
HB: Yeah. Ah right. That’s explained it then because I was, I was suddenly thinking 1958.
CM: I was stationed at Kinloss then.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Wasn’t I on the, that’s when I was on [ unclear]
HB: No. No. That was you were still at Gibraltar in ’48 err ’58 sorry. ’58.
CM: I was in Gib then.
HB: Yeah. You were in Gibraltar then. That’s what caught my eye was the fact that you got offensive operations but, yeah I understand that now. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s that transition you see that you’ve gone through all of this equipment. It’s, and its, I presume not only has it become more technical.
CM: Complex.
HB: It’s become small.
CM: Complex.
HB: Yeah. Complex. It’s almost become smaller as well.
CM: That’s right.
HB: I would presume.
CM: More adaptable.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The telephone valves, valves suddenly vanished off the face of the earth and first thing in this system, they got the APS 20 which was about this size.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It suddenly became about this size but the big thing was the screen.
HB: Right. So it went from, it went from the size of a coffee table down to —
CM: Well, yeah. In the [unclear] sense.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But, but it was an interesting job. Can you imagine to a schoolboy to be with all this anti-submarine equipment?
HB: Yeah.
CM: The finder. It was very very interesting. And if you’ve got something real on the screen. Something that was enemy, you know. Not so much enemy.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Simulated enemy. You think this person diving the submarine I have got him in my sights offensively [unclear]
HB: Yeah.
CM: With depth charges which we had.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. That, well that —
CM: We’d be doing the job which we knew we’d be employed in doing if a war broke out.
HB: That was your job. That was your job wasn’t it? And then we get to 1960 and you’re back to Kinloss [pause] flying Shackletons again.
CM: Yeah. This would be the Shackleton then would be in January was it?
HB: Yeah. Shackleton 1 it’s got. Yeah. You got people like, you got numerous pilots with you. All sorts of different pilots.
CM: I think that would be on [unclear] it was [unclear] training. Must have been flying the aircraft that trained them.
HB: Right. Right.
CM: Numbers and numbers of the —
HB: Yeah because you’ve got, you’ve got exercises.
CM: That’s right.
HB: A3, A1, A4, A5.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Not exercises for me but exercises for the pilots.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Trained in, that was for the aircraft and I was just crew then.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Did all the dogsbody stuff. All the stuff that —
HB: Yeah. Yeah. The sweeping up. Making the tea.
CM: I did cooking as well.
HB: Cooking.
CM: Oh we had a, you could get airborne for twenty four hours in a Shackleton, you know.
HB: Right.
CM: Twenty four hours. I never did one. I did a twenty two hour trip once but it’s too long. I think a complaint. ‘I’m not having this. You’d better cut my hours down.’
HB: Yeah. I mean there’s some seven and nine and ten hour flights here.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Yeah. And then yeah as I say you carry on, you carry on at Kinloss for a good old time again.
CM: So my next posting after that was I did a [unclear] on the ground staff doing, looking after these, they called the a space stage two trainer. Looking at simulating trips in the air but not leaving the ground.
HB: Right.
CM: You could make exercises. You could make them up all the time.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So instead of wasting money on petrol you could do the same thing on the ground. Get the same experience. The same equipment and everything. So that was saving money.
HB: So was that, was that sort of classroom based or was that in some sort of simulator?
CM: No. This was actual equipment. You’d sit in these cubicles with the same stuff that you’d have in the aircraft.
HB: Right.
CM: You have use of the headquarters in these cubicles. You’d have other aircraft in these cubicles. And all the equipment.
HB: Yeah. So the cubicle would be set up exactly as if you were in the air.
CM: That’s it. But radar. Of course you couldn’t get a radar signal there so they simulated that. Simulated kind of things coming up.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: But nevertheless you could save a lot of money by just doing it on the ground.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was all handle work. Key work.
HB: Yeah. I can see. I mean I can see in here that I’ve come to that part. Yeah. Of the sort of the sort of staff training and what not. The [pause] yeah because that I mean obviously the booths that you talk about that were set up, you know with the equipment.
CM: That’s right.
HB: They obviously became the forerunners of what we now know in the modern —
CM: Yeah.
HB: Era of the flight simulators.
CM: That’s right. That’s right. But the link trainer I mean, it’s a simulator.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But you can get, you can fly blind with. The thing is you couldn’t get airborne so got to fly blind there except for putting specs on, hoods on people which they did do. But it was too costly and too —
HB: Yeah.
CM: The link trainer fulfilled that role exactly. They couldn’t see anyway, so you had to go by the instruments.
HB: Oh right. Yeah.
CM: You see people used to use the instruments and have faith in the instruments you were using. That was good. The link trainer was good for that.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: People who were poor at blind flying became excellent after a few spells on the link trainer.
HB: I have noticed throughout your logbook —
CM: Hmmn?
HB: I’ve noticed throughout your logbook there’s regular little comments signed by senior officers. Wing commanders and such of, “above average,” “high average.” That’s how they’re assessing you.
CM: That’s damning you with faint praise.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. So where are we now? We’ve got to — now, yeah this is, this is the thing. 1963.
CM: Posted to Changi.
HB: You’re in — yeah.
CM: Posted to Changi.
HB: 205 Squadron, Changi.
CM: The best posting I ever had.
HB: Was it?
CM: My wife, she was a very good looking lass but by God the people there the commanding officers they wouldn’t, they would all make a beeline for Shirley whatever the occasion was.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Commanding officers, flight commanders, ordinary people in reserve couldn’t get a look in. So, I said to Shirley, ‘Who are you with, darling? The commanding officer or me?’ ‘You darling.’ ‘Good.’
HB: So a little bit of marital strife there [laughs]
CM: Shirley and I had a very good looking daughter if you see photographs of Jane when she was fifteen sixteen.
HB: Yeah.
CM: She was a very good looking girl. Just like her mother.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Well I saw that in that photograph. Yeah. But so that again that’s flying out in the Shackleton Mark 2s and that’s and I presume that’s doing much of the —
CM: Well, you should come across somewhere there at Changi that we had a wall, if you look at my medals. I’ve got a medal which very very few people have had. Fiona’s put it somewhere where you wouldn’t miss it. So Fiona’s put my medals where we’ll never miss them so the chances are I’ll never find them.
HB: Oh no. Worry not about that.
CM: This one’s particularly good.
[pause]
HB: So that would be [pause] so I’m just trying to find it actually in here. Would that be, would that be Borneo? Would that be the Indonesian Confrontation?
CM: Yeah. That’s right. That’s right.
HB: In ’63.
CM: That’s what I would show you if I could find the damned thing.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The medal I got for it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Fiona’s, Fiona’s put it in a place —
HB: You’re a bit, you’re a bit far away from the recorder now Kit.
CM: My daughter has put my medals in a place where I can’t miss them. Therefore I know I’ll ever find them.
HB: Don’t worry about them.
CM: Ok.
HB: We’ll sort them out later. I was just trying to find —
CM: Well you’ll notice that those top of the. Something called Hawk Moths.
HB: Hawk Moths.
CM: Hawk Moths. We were fighting in the Indonesian confrontation.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But there’s one thing we weren’t allowed to do Harry. We weren’t allowed to kill them.
HB: Oh right.
CM: It wasn’t a war. It was a confrontation. Once we started killing the bastards it went to a — so what we did they supplied from Sumatra. If you can imagine Sumatra or just in the Malacca Straits. There’s Malaya one side and Indonesia on the other.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Sumatra. But they used to go across from Sumatra to Malaya and do damage. Dropped by parachutes and people and all this business so we knew that we had to get these people as they’re flying, as they’re sheering across the Malay Strait with motor, motor torpedo boats they were, I think. Big boats but vulnerable. We found that the only thing we could frighten them to death with was this. We used to get, we used to have one, it was always at night. They always came across at night. They didn’t come across in daylight. The fighters would have got them.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But they couldn’t do what we could do. We could kill them or make severely inconvenience them by a simple method of using our four engines.
HB: Right.
CM: Four Griffon engines. So much power. One thousand eight hundred and fifty horsepower and the propellers had to be contra rotating to absorb all the power. They had tremendous [unclear] Simple as a Shackleton pull you out of anything, any trouble you were in just open the throttles and get out of it. And what we used to do was to fire off these 1.5 magi flares. There was thirty six of them in banks of, packs of six. Six sixes are thirty six. Six sixes. Now, they used to burn. Burn in the air. Bang when they go up there and when they reached their zenith it would burst. It would burn with a really fantastic light for about thirty five, forty seconds. Not very long. But long enough at thirty five seconds to appear what was going on. And as they went out, bang another one would go off. And this was going out this would lit up again. So you could get maybe a minute of continuous light. A minute’s a long time.
HB: Yes. Yes.
CM: You know, you know the smart gun there, get the radar detector going towards it and just suddenly, they’re not expecting it up it would go. Bright as day. So what we could do then look at the boat going along from Sumatra to the main whatsaname Beach in Malaya.
HB: Malaya.
CM: And you’d fly towards Malaya ourselves so the boat length ways. Not that way but that way. So then —
HB: So you’re coming in on the side of the boat at ninety degrees.
CM: That’s it, but you’d go down to ten feet. Just above the waves and you opened the throttles and go over this boat. Just dead, bend down just a little bit and level off and the whole blast of this right against the, the force of it, the force against the boat and over she’d go, and all the crew as well.
HB: So it would capsize.
CM: Capsized. Yeah. That’s something else. You’ve got a scoop here.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I’ve never heard this mentioned anywhere, that was.
HB: And that, that’s in the —
CM: But you see it there as Hawk Moths.
HB: It’s Hawk Moth operations.
CM: You can see.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. I can see Hawk Moth here.
CM: That was down in the Malacca Strait.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And of course we wouldn’t then, we’d find a few people. There’s always people swimming around.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So we said after all if it doesn’t kill them they’ll probably get in to the boat anyway. You couldn’t sink these damned things.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But all the stuff had been tipped out.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And the whole operation, their operation would be cancelled.
HB: Yeah.
CM: In other words we won the war.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: That’s why it’s important to me to find where Fiona has hidden my medals. So she can, she can find them easily.
HB: Oh we’ll find them. We’ll find them at the end of the interview, Kit. Don’t you worry.
CM: She’s lovely. She’s a lovely lass but by God she doesn’t have the thoroughness of Jane.
HB: Right.
CM: Jane’s very thorough.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. There’s quite a few. Quite a few of these Hawk Moth operations in there.
CM: And of course during my time there we won the war. Sukarno gave in.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: I was chosen to be the photographer at the HMS Bulwark and HMS Centaur, the Ark Royal and the huge fleet out there just out for the Confrontation. They formed two lines of ships. The capital ships, the aircraft carriers and the battleships and destroyers and all the little ships.
HB: Oh right.
CM: That were there. And we flew down through the, we had an avenue of ships and we were taking photographs actually.
HB: You were doing the aerial photos.
CM: I was on the verge of coming back, I never saw those photographs.
HB: Oh right.
CM: But I was chosen as the photographer. Photographer, you see. But that was, so that was the end of the Confrontation. The Indonese gave us a medal and we got another General Service Medal. So that added two medals to my which nobody, not many people —
HB: No.
CM: Certainly not many people in the war, my medal rate, did you see that? The medals. You still can read it.
HB: I saw, I saw the medals on the photographs.
CM: That’s right.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But there’s two short.
HB: Ah right. Yeah. Which is —
CM: The Indonesian one and the what’s the name.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s right, because they show the medals, that’s extra medals because the medals then were the general service medal and the Malaysian medal is on there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And there’s two complete rows. Well I’ve never seen anybody except me that’s got these two complete rows because I carried on after war.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I was on operational squadrons after the war. I was in a front line squadron.
HB: I was going to say it’s all operational isn’t it? Yeah.
CM: I was the last in.
HB: Yeah.
CM: That’s why I wanted to kind of make a special mention of me about the guerrilla boat because I think your word after getting this scoop. These two scoops.
HB: Yes, it does. Yes. That’s great because that takes us through to where are we? 1965.
CM: But I didn’t do any flying though at that.
HB: June ’65 you [pause] I think that was —
CM: I went, I wasn’t —
HB: Sorry. July.
CM: I was a missile, I was a missile controller at Neatishead.
HB: Yeah. Because, because we — yeah. We —
CM: That wouldn’t be in the logbook.
HB: Yeah. So we’ve done —
CM: They don’t put missiles in logbooks.
HB: I think [pause] I’ll just, I’ll just make absolutely sure about this.
CM: So, it’s a full career flying in front line squadrons all the time.
HB: Yes.
CM: So I’m quite proud of that.
HB: Yes. I mean you’re flying [pause] Let me have a look. You’ve got a Hawk Moth operation on the 16th of August 1965. And you’ve certainly flown some hours on that.
CM: Oh yes.
HB: And that —
CM: I flew a lot after the Indonesian conflict to start with.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But we did have a new flight commanding officer at that time and he took a shine to me.
HB: Oh right.
CM: Unlike some of the buggers [laughs]
HB: Yeah. So that’s where, that’s when your actual flying logbook finishes.
CM: That’s right.
HB: But then in ’65 you go — or ’66 sorry.
CM: I left in ’67.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I was on missiles. I was the controller at Neatishead. But unfortunately —
HB: At where?
CM: Neatishead. It’s the biggest, one of the biggest air defence stations.
HB: Neatishead.
CM: Neatishead. N E A T. Neat. I S. Neatis Head. H E A D.
HB: Neatishead.
CM: Neatishead.
HB: And that’s where?
CM: That’s Norfolk, I think.
HB: Norfolk. Right, right.
CM: But unfortunately, on my wife’s instructions I’d put in for a commission when I left whatsaname, I knew I was pretty well thought of, you know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And I knew that Commanding Officer Harvey was, he loved, he literally, he kept treating my wife at every possible occasion. This came back to me. So I knew I was well in with him but whether he was going to translate that into a good recommendation, so I just applied. Nothing. And Fiona said err my wife Shirley said, ‘Have you still applied?’ So I banged an application in. Then I was posted to Neatishead. The first thing that happened, I was posted there. I had a good long spells of leave before I went there. The commanding officer said to me, a very nice man, he said, ‘I’ve had a recommendation,’ from your whatsaname, commission he said, I can’t possibly send this on unless I know something about you.’ Right. Oh sod off. I didn’t, I was deaf as a bloody post I think. I couldn’t care less about a commission. I was nearing the end of my time.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And I thought it was just incidental. I knew I would be, I knew it would waltz through it so what happened? I fell in very very much with a girl who was a flight lieutenant. God knows what her name is now but she was the WAAF commander. She sat at the desk opposite me.
HB: Right.
CM: And she and I became quite comfortable.
HB: Yeah.
CM: For want of a better word, she did. It wasn’t long before she asked me about, ‘Can you take me home in your car tonight, my car’s u/s.’ [unclear] I realised, my God at my age of forty four, forty three this bloody woman’s is in love with me.
HB: Oh dear.
CM: This ugly bastard like me, you know. This was so amusing. So I didn’t dare to mention that I was here but being the adjutant because I’d put or commission, but she seemed to know. She said to me now and then, she said to me, ‘Everything’s ok, you know. Everything’s ok.’ So from that I assumed that she was giving the reports to the whatsaname. The commanding officer hardly saw me. She was putting in the reports about me. Right. So I thought I can’t go on here. I’m a bit of a, I’ll have to find an excuse to get out of it because I’m as deaf as a bloody post. I had to go through all the treatments, ‘Sorry Mr McVickers. You’re deaf.’ You know, that real deep deafness was starting so I knew I wouldn’t get through anyway.’ Anyway, to cut a long story short they had this sent to have a big overhaul at Neatishead, all the whole thing. It been going for years and years. The whole thing’s has to be changed. They’re going to be away for, I think it was six weeks two months, it’s going to be overhauled, all the new equipment. Everything kind of renewed. So they sent me, because there’s nobody at the station virtually at Neatishead, there’s the ground bit and there’s the top of the hole. There’s a big hole. They put me with the other spec ops doing this job and sent me to Patrington which was another Air Defence of Great Britain station. But when I got there I found that the situation was different. The man who was in charge of everything there was a [pause] what’s the word, he was less senior than me. So they said, ‘Well, you’ll have to take over.’ So I said, ‘I can’t possibly take over the job. He’s been trained to be an air traffic controller. A missile controller. How the hell can I possibly do it?’ He said, ‘Well you’ll have to go on a course,’ but I said, ‘I can’t have this. The best thing would be for me to pack the whole thing in.’
HB: Yeah.
CM: They said, ‘What do you mean?’ I said, ‘Well if I haven’t been properly trained I’m going to be taking a job about which I know nothing.’ I was looking after all the missiles on the ground you know. I said, ‘I’m supposed to be a controller from Neatishead.’ Signalling the targets on the whatsaname and phoning them through to Woodhall Spa or [pause] I’ve forgotten the name of the other place actually, near Grimsby. There what I’m looking for. Just to pass the target on to them. Nothing else. I was the controller. Missiles controller.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And the people there thought the best thing was I thought my god what’s going to happen suddenly coming home from Neatishead to say, ‘Report to for training for the commission.’ That’s the last thing in the world I wanted at the time.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So I didn’t tell Shirley about that obviously but I’d certainly heard nothing about the commissions and I left the station. You know. Left the, my friend the WAAF. The flight lieutenant. The good looking WAAF, and suddenly I was unemployed. So I thought the best thing I could here is kept mum. I’m out. I’ve got a good job. A good job lined up and I thought far better to get a job at forty five then be an officer at fifty three or fifty four and find out nobody wants you.
HB: Yes.
CM: So I used my loaf and told Shirley what happened. She said, ‘Oh let’s get out. I’ll get a job as well.’ So she became, to cut a long story short, she’d been a photographer at some hotel just up the road apiece and this job came up in the Trading Standards Department saying they were starting a new section. A completely new department called Consumer Affairs. So they set out all the qualifications, sort of. ‘What a pity Shirley. You could have applied for that.’ She said, ‘I fully intend to apply. To apply for it.’ I said, ‘Well but you’ve had no training darling. You’ve got no qualifications except matriculation.’ So she said, ‘I’m going to apply.’ I said, ‘What are you going to put down for qualifications?’ She said, ‘Just that I’ve been a service wife for nineteen years. I’ve been nineteen years.’
HB: Yeah.
CM: So off she went and within a fortnight she got a letter back. She’d passed the first stage. We found out later there was seven hundred and odd applications. And that was the big weeding out.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And Shirley survived that. And I said, ‘If you survived that’s good. You must have looked good on paper.’ ‘Well,’ she said, ‘I did. I did a good job with that’. So the next was personal interviews. They took a long time actually. But after a while I said to Shirley. ‘What’s happened at this interview? What’s going on here?’ She said [pause] So I thought that she knows something that I don’t know.
HB: The tap on the nose. Yeah.
CM: So I’d better press her, I said, ‘For Christ’s sake, I’m your husband,’ you know. Got to get a job to save the family because I was getting two thousand two hundred at that time. ’67. When the national average was seven hundred and fifty.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I was getting two thousand.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So we would be digging into our capital. And the next thing that happened was another interview with only about twenty or something like that. Shirley came home. I said, ‘What happened?’ She said, ‘Don’t worry about it. I’ll get the job.’ I said, ‘Shirley, darling how could you possibly get the job with all these qualifications and you haven’t got any of them? You’ve just matriculated.’ So I was really worried about it so I didn’t make a mess on the carpet. In other words Matriculation did. She said, ‘I’ll be their first choice and I’ll get the job.’ I said, ‘Well, that’s lovely you assume that but I think you’re being a little bit premature. Anyway, to cut a long story short again four, four, four left, four interviews and she was, Shirley was told and the other, presumably the other three were told that by 6 o’clock tonight one of you would have got the job. He said, ‘We’ll be visiting the one that’s got the job before 6 o’clock tonight.’ Although whatever it was I forget the timing, so I said to Shirley, ‘Aren’t you a bit nervous with it being in the last four?’ She said, ‘No. I’ll get the job.’ So, I said, ‘Why?’ She said, ‘Oh, I’ve been their first choice all every interview I’ve had.’ I said, ‘But how can this happen?’ This job of course with all these qualifications, suddenly it was.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But anyway, at ten to six that night I’m sitting tactfully in our living room err the dining room. No. Spare room.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I could see the front and I saw these two people get out the car. Mr Butler and Mr Charlesworth. One was an ex major and the other was a Swordfish pilot.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I realised then straight away sort of found out what they were that they’d taken a shine to Shirley because I was the sort of a warrant officer aircrew. You know.
HB: Yeah.
CM: This is the sort of men, somebody that they wanted in the background of. I’m not saying that’s true. But I just think that’s what happened.
HB: Yeah. That’s what you thought. Yeah.
CM: One of the things in her favour.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I said to Shirley, ‘Shirley, they’re here.’ And she came in and she said, ‘Yes.’ She said go in there and I’ll call you in. I took them into our special room that we had. And I said, Shirley came with me ‘Mr Charlesworth of course, my wife, Shirley.’ ‘We know. We know your wife, Mr McVickers. We’d like to be, if you don’t mind, alone for the, with her for a —’ So I knew straight away that she got the job. She was the first choice just exactly as she’d said.
HB: Yeah. She’d known that all the way through.
CM: It was, yeah she was, first appointment. The only one thing that they said to me, Mr Charlesworth, he said, he said she was an outstanding candidate. That’s was it. She was an outstanding candidate.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Now, what that means I don’t know but an outstanding candidate gets rid of all the qualifications. Qualification this and qualifications the other. They just took her on her own merits.
HB: Absolutely. Yes.
CM: And Mr Charlesworth err Mr Butler said afterwards, many many years afterwards, she was working there about twenty years she was the obvious choice to do the job. That’s because —
HB: So so while Shirley’s getting her job and you’re —
CM: I was then worked for Anglian Water.
HB: So, so you’d, you’d then finished and you joined —
CM: Anglian Water.
HB: Anglian Water.
CM: I left the civil service. It didn’t make that much difference.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The man that told me that I was a natural, natural at the job which I wasn’t and also one of the employees there told me if you want to get on here don’t kind of send things back for verification. Just pay them anyway. You see, you’re allowed a five percent, a five percent error. He said you’ll never make any [unclear] It was so simple that there’s no errors. No possible errors. Overtake the hard ones by scores. So you never get five percent error.
HB: So what was your actual —
CM: So I held a job, Mr — he did the X, Ys and Zs and I did the As and Bs. It’s a good to contrast. He got very few applications because everything was to be handed to me. And see he did the bits that were difficult for me. He cancelled them all out.
HB: Right. So what exactly was your job.
CM: It was an easy job.
HB: Yeah.
CM: At the top of the tree.
HB: Yeah. What exactly was your job Kit?
CM: Vetting Officer. I decided how much if a person was eligible. For instance if you’d only had half the payments in you only got half the payment. Right. So if the person came in and they’d only got say, fifteen instead of the twenty six minimum application you’d cancel it altogether. Right. But he’d gone straight to the name then, assistant or something. He’d say what had happened. They’d pay him as if he was full, full stamps.
HB: Oh right I see.
CM: He gets full stamps. So I mean no matter how little you had, their people who only had fourteen they’d get for fourteen and they’d get less then the person that had got none, none at all and he get paid the full. So us vetting officers we soon cottoned on to that. This was completely and utterly unfair.
HB: So this is for the water rates.
CM: No. Not water. This was, this was, that was the next job that I came to.
HB: Oh sorry. Sorry. I’ve missed a bit out. So that, so that was in to the civil service.
CM: Yeah. That’s right. The Civil service. And he kept on saying to me, ‘Don’t worry about that.’
HB: Yeah.
CM: After one year you become a, the, become a something officer.
HB: Yeah.
CM: [unclear] officer. It was the next step up. Free. Just get it free. You’ve got that anyways, if you’d done a year.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So I thought [unclear]. Here I am stuck in a job I dislike intensely, you know, being an aircrew man all my life and suddenly I’m kind of stuck there. So Shirley said, ‘I’ll find you another job.’ This is my wife. By this time she’s working at you know, she’s the department commander.
HB: Yeah. [unclear] Consumer Affairs.
CM: I’ve got all the certificates that she’d got.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Given to her. Not kind of worked for but given by virtue of her job.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And she said, ‘I’ve got a job here for you, working for Anglian Water as a district inspector.’
HB: Oh right.
CM: But what I got with the job wasn’t district inspector. It was area inspector. A rank higher up.
HB: Yeah.
CM: There were people who were experienced. Of course I had no experience but I did as Shirley said when I went to the interview. The first one I thought what the hell? Shirley can do it I can do it. So I was completely not bothered about it.
HB: Yeah
CM: I’ve got a good job anyway I’ve got pensions from the Air Force, I’ve got pensions from water board, I’ve got pensions from this and pensions from that.
HB: Right.
CM: So I did.
HB: It’s alright I’m just double checking the battery.
CM: Anyway, I’m terribly sorry I’ve taken over.
HB: No. No. No.
CM: But then you’re getting something about my background.
HB: No. No. No.
CM: I ‘m lucky. I’m lucky I have been, how lucky I could be.
HB: I’m interested in the length of service you’ve given.
CM: Yeah. I did thirty one operations in the hot war and there were five six, six, seven in the Cold War.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I did in the, in the, in the whatsaname for.
HB: Malaysia.
CM: Over the water to fly in the helicopters to look for where an aircraft had been. [unclear]
HB: Yeah.
CM: I had to map it out and tell them where it was and they’d come out and sort it out.
HB: The Air Sea Rescue. Yeah.
CM: So I had a particular job there and the promise to being an area officer and then another rank higher but I had to have the qualifications. They got to invent the qualifications for me. They said just get the A level in the, we’ll do the, all the chemical experiments for you. I said I’m in the base of a bloody load of corruption here. There was experienced both the civil service, they both told me first thing. They’d be a bit what’s the name. Something officer, there.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Field officer.
HB: Right. Yeah.
CM: But I wasn’t long enough, part time.
HB: So you’ve, you’ve gone all the way through the war. You’ve had your RAF career over twenty years.
CM: Twenty six years.
HB: Twenty six years. And you, you’ve gone back into civilian life. What do you think, what do you think the war, that your wartime service with Bomber Command what do you think that gave you for your later life in the RAF and —
CM: Confidence.
HB: Right.
CM: I was a, as far as I was concerned I was not only a wireless op air gunner who did his job but also I knew that I wasn’t, I wasn’t really scared. I told you I was the biggest coward and everything. I wasn’t.
HB: Right.
CM: I was apprehensive. I used to look at the, the aircraft coming in, the place where the aircraft was parked and find that there were so many bombs, if you looked at the front of the aircraft and you could see nothing else but steel all the way around from middle right at the end. Right through this. A huge bomb bay about easily from that to here in a Lancaster.
HB: Yeah. A good eighteen feet. Twenty feet.
CM: Nothing at all. And you’d look at the front and you’d find that, yes you could see it, everyone said it but you wouldn’t believe it. The wings were fitted upwards.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I thought my God it’s so bloody heavy there that the damned wings are lifting up.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And of course everyone, we were all aware of that, you know. And how the hell could this possibly get airborne? But as soon as the aircraft had gone on off the runway and got the a airflow over it the wings then start to lift, because if they [unclear] to lift and of course they reassert themselves.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And of course the Lancaster designed from the bomb bay. It was designed as a —
HB: Yeah. So so you attribute your confidence to it.
CM: And also I was a good wireless op. Morse, because I always, I never got any IMIs. IMI means de de da da dit dit — please, ‘please send that again.’ De de da da dit dit.
HB: Right. Yeah. Right. So, of, of your crews.
CM: Yeah.
HB: Because you obviously had you know a number of, you know slight changes during Bomber Command duties.
CM: Well, they didn’t know anything about ops. They didn’t tell them anything in Morse.
HB: No. No.
CM: But as something else to think about doing lectures. When I was doing my t cal, it was teaching I used to think to myself what I should really do is something that’s really interesting. And one of the interesting things about being a wireless operator was emergencies.
HB: Right.
CM: Now, you know that everyone sends SOSs when they were da da da da, so. But it used to be SOS de de dit da da da dit dit dit da da da dit dit dit. So this brilliant bastard, who it was said, ‘This is not distinguishable.’ It’s dash O S sent, sent separately. Why don’t we put it all together and make it one symbol? So what they did SOS and with SOS, SOOS and they put a bar across the whole lot which meant it ran, the whole thing bit of it, instead of it being it dit dit dit da da dit dit dit it became de de de da da dit dit dit dit dit dit da da dit dit dit Which everyone knows as SOS.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CM: So therefore it was adopted.
HB: Oh right.
CM: So we knew we had a system whereby if you had an emergency we used this system to do this. There’s a word called PATASACANDI. PATASACANDI. And if you think about that PAT is Position and Time. PAT CAS Course and Speed. A PATCAS Altitude. And then name. Name of aircraft. Intention of pilot. Right. All of this went out of your mind even and put all the things in and send it as PATACASANDI. In other words —
HB: Right.
CM: Height would be QAH fifteen, fifteen thousand. PAT, PAT in time of course you’d get your watch, plus course and speed. You ran the different course off from the, the whatsaname [unclear] and yaw thing, and speed. I didn’t get the speed but the navigator put down the speed. QTJ my speed is, my air speed is, such and such and such, my ground speed is depending which you were going to use. Then —
HB: Right.
CM: The course. And then there was the altitude. And the other one was the nature. The nature of, nature of, nature of the emergency.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Engine just, engine on fire. Bomb in, bomb in, bomb in bomb bay. Whatever the emergency was. They put that. Then intention of pilot. A PATCASANDI, Intention of Pilot. I at the end — intention of pilot. PATCASANDI. Everyone in the aircraft and the engineer knew that. How to send an emergency message was always in your head.
HB: Yeah.
CM: It was easy. You also knew the Q signals which we’d stick to them. The QAS for height. QTI for skip a course, your QEH was [unclear] of the whole thing so you could do it in your head. All the navigator had to say was, Kit.
HB: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah.
CM: I was confident that if there was an emergency I could send that.
HB: Did you, did you, when you look back we obviously lost an awful lot of —
CM: Engine Yeah.
HB: Aircrew and, you know people, you know, people didn’t come back. What was your, what was your general feeling? You know. You fly out on an op. You come back and a couple of your planes are missing. What was, what was your feeling about that, Kit?
CM: What we’d do then if you knew an aircraft had been shot down. We’d got sometimes to the 500cc channel, the name of channel 500 KCs which was 500 used by everybody. Maritimes, aircraft all go to the 500cc and you could hear anyone in distress sending his distress position.
HB: Right.
CM: That was the wonderful thing about being a wireless op you could be individual, an aircraft you’d see shot down and we’d know you didn’t have any chance of sending anything.
HB: No.
CM: But others which were badly damaged the wireless operator there frantically trying to get a message through.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because his message and don’t forget you obviously finished off the message, the SOS by pressing his key for twenty seconds which was a long time [buzz] All the time in the world for the ground staff and other people anywhere taking bearings on you so therefore they get a good picture of just exactly where you were in the North Sea.
HB: Yeah.
CM: I feel I’m taking over too much now of this. Way over things that don’t even matter.
HB: Oh no. No. No. These —
CM: Well, it gives a good background to a wireless operator’s job.
HB: Well, that’s, that’s why you’re being interviewed Kit.
CM: Is that right?
HB: Because your wireless operator experience, I mean we’re talking lots of years here has developed. But —
CM: That’s right.
HB: In Bomber, in Bomber Command.
CM: They were going to be shot down.
HB: Yeah. You, you must have experienced that, you know. With friends.
CM: Yeah.
HB: And other crews that you knew.
CM: Oh yeah.
HB: Who didn’t come back.
CM: Yeah. I won’t talk about that.
HB: No.
CM: Distressing experience I just cut it out of my mind.
HB: No. That’s, yeah that’s understandable. I mean it’s, it’s a difficult area because none of us now can even imagine how you would feel and what you would experience.
CM: That’s right but I do wish before you go and I know you’ll be thinking to yourself how can I get away with this [noise] I’ve broken your communicator.
HB: Worry not. I’ve stood it back up.
CM: I wrote, I wrote a letter once, on an old notepad, so I’ll just [pages turning] Look at this. Do you hear what Sherlock would say? You’ve got all these to read when you’ve got time. Not now.
HB: Well, we will. We will on another occasion, I think.
CM: That’s the chap that was flying that Typhoon.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Now, I won’t, I won’t keep this, but I’ll tell you what it is. It’s a description of a flight I made. Just a flight rather than the flight. The definite article rather than the indefinite article. Ah is indefinite article. The is action.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So this particular flight was in my mind and I wrote it down exactly how it was. But also I’ve mentioned something which I’ve never seen mentioned anywhere before. Are you listening carefully for it Harry? It was well known in Bomber Command that an awful lot of atrocities took place. Have you heard about this?
HB: About the —?
CM: Atrocities towards aircrew.
HB: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
CM: Some of these people who are — they went through a very very harrowing experience. Some of them went mental. Deranged in fact. And they gathered themselves during a raid and tried to collect any bombers. A lot of people, had they baled out over the target and they’d come down in the streets and they, generally speaking there were some people who would [unclear] had very bad time indeed. They were hanged from lampposts. They were kicked to death by the civilians. They were shot by platoon commanders who wouldn’t take them in. They just cut them down with that, you never hear anything about that.
HB: No.
CM: It’s up to Bomber Command did [unclear] that’s why to a lot of people like me know about this. If people knew about the really bad times that they faced if they were ever taken prisoner. If the Luftwaffe were around the area and the Luftwaffe were patrolling they were pretty safe, but if there were no, no Luftwaffe around the SS they couldn’t have cared less. They’d shoot you out of hand.
HB: Yeah.
CM: An awful lot. There’s never been any book published. Any publication about it. People know, know this went on. But if you try to find anything about it.
HB: Yeah.
CM: The only way you find out about is by looking up at this report that I put in.
HB: Right.
CM: Which I can show you.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But I can’t now because I can’t remember where it is.
HB: Well, yeah.
CM: So I thought this might be the sort of thing that you’d be looking for.
HB: Yeah.
CM: On top of. In addition to. As well as —
HB: Yes. Yes.
CM: Rather than —
HB: I mean, it’s been fascinating listening to you Kit talking about that, you know. Not just, not just the wartime but the whole of, the whole of your RAFs experience. And you know how, I mean you said that you described this period of time when NCOs were being reduced in rank and whatnot.
CM: Well —
HB: But, but how —
CM: They don’t, they, let’s put it this way they didn’t say it was a reduction of rank
HB: No. No. No. No.
CM: They were exactly the same.
HB: Yeah.
CM: But we as aircrew had been warrant officers. We’d been so used to all this you know.
HB: Yeah. Exactly.
CM: But It was just taken over, three stripes, three stars and a crown, the same as a flight sergeant.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And they wouldn’t have it —
HB: Yeah.
CM: The aircrew who served they wouldn’t have it. That’s what buggered that up.
HB: What do you, do you think? Do you, when you look back now for that time during the World War? Do you think the public really understood what you were trying to do?
CM: I didn’t think. No. I don’t think they even thought about the things I’ve been telling you about now. The murders. That’s what they were. They were murders. And the best way that they used to kill and this comes up time and time again. Butchers. Butchers actually decapitate theirs. They set them in a line and one after the butcher would take their heads off. So called ISIS.
HB: But the public. The public back home here.
CM: They never found anything about that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Never let anything be published.
HB: But in general terms though your, your service in Bomber Command.
CM: I tried to be a bomber.
HB: There were lots and lots of you.
CM: Yeah.
HB: As you came to the end of the war the public in this country had a view about the Spitfire boys and, you know the Navy and, and what not. Did you, did you — what did you think the public thought Bomber Command had achieved in the war?
CM: Well, I think that they pretty thought, and don’t forget and I came from a steel town and I used to and meet with a brevet and my stripes, you know. I was some sort of particular to the girls, I was a hero of Bomber Command. Because a lot of that on the radio all you got was, nothing happening in the war. The war years. The war world. But Bomber Command — last night’s operations. This. There. Bombers bombed shipping.
HB: Yeah.
CM: [unclear] what at the end was always the same. Of all, out of all these operations thirty five, forty four, sixty five, ninety seven in one case —
HB: Yeah.
CM: Of our aircraft are missing.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Now, you don’t have to be an intelligent member of the community to say ninety seven. Ninety seven, down the road. That’s from here to —
HB: Yeah.
CM: But there was a town up there. [unclear]
HB: But, so, so in general times you felt that the public were with you.
CM: Oh yes, really. There were also the liberals and the communists and the whatsanames. They wouldn’t be of course.
HB: No.
CM: But we were, as far as we were concerned we were being instructed. We willingly went into Bomber Command because in Bomber Command you bombed civilians. You couldn’t go to war like that.
HB: Yeah. And what, what was your view? Did, or did you even have a view of the government’s position at the end of the war towards Bomber Command?
CM: As regards the treatment of Bomber Command. It was absolutely atrocious. I’ve just explained to you about that.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Within, within on year of the war ending we were no longer flight sergeant or warrant officers. We were signaller 2s and signaller 1s and engineer 1s and engineer 2s, and pilots even. Pilot 1 and pilot 2s and pilot 3s and pilot 4s.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Because if you had one star you’re a pilot 4. For two stars you’re a pilot 3.
HB: Yeah.
CM: If you had one star you’re a pilot. No. You’re a pilot, a signaller 2 or pilot 2 with one star. No. Three stars was sergeant. Two stars — three stars and a crown was a flight sergeant. Three stars by itself was sergeant. Two stars was corporal. And one star was lance corporal.
HB: Right.
CM: That’s how, that’s how they looked at it.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: But the lance corporal couldn’t go.
HB: But the thing.
CM: Lance corporal couldn’t go in the sergeants mess.
HB: No.
CM: So they had to have separate messes and everything else.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So it was a complete and utter — it didn’t happen to the officers like that.
HB: No.
CM: They weren’t even mentioned. But we were treated badly.
HB: Politically, what, what was, what do you think was coming across politically from —
CM: Oh I think that at that time.
HB: Churchill and people like that.
CM: Don’t forget Bomber Command was the only way we could hit the, hit the Germans at all.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: Where could we hit? Where could we hit the Germans except in their homelands.
HB: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: We destroyed their cities one by one.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Until only one was left.
HB: Yeah.
CM: Dresden. And in the last few days of the war we destroyed that as well.
HB: Yeah.
CM: So we did an incalculable addition to the winning of the war because they, whatsanames the people would be dehoused. Had no where to live. The slave labourers were living in terrible conditions in mountains. The whole system was run by slave labour.
HB: Yeah.
CM: And that was because of Bomber Command. They literally — the population were bombed out of their homes.
HB: Yeah. Well, Kit I think, I think we’ve come to a natural conclusion.
CM: That’s right. I feel as if I’ve, I feel as if I’ve monopolised the conversation.
HB: It’s not a conversation. It’s your story, Kit and it’s very very important.
CM: So you learned about the way that the way that Bomber Command were treated at the end of the war.
HB: Absolutely.
CM: You’ve seen my logbook. You know I’m a genuine person. You know that I’ve done well for myself.
HB: Yes. You certainly have. Its, it’s ten to three.
CM: Dear God have I been speaking for two or three hours?
HB: We, we started —
CM: You must have —
HB: We started before 1 o’clock.
CM: You must have put it to at least a half an hour of that Harry.
HB: I’m going to terminate the interview now. Thank you very much Kit. I really do appreciate that.
CM: But you will come back.
HB: Yes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Christopher George McVickers
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Harry Bartlett
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-06
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMcVickersCG171006, PMcVickersCG1701
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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02:08:19 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Description
An account of the resource
Christopher ‘Kit’ McVickers was working at the steelworks before he volunteered for aircrew. He trained as a wireless operator and was posted to 218 Squadron based at Woolfox Lodge. His pilot refused to fly and was replaced with a new pilot. The crew found the incident upsetting because they loved their pilot and worried for him. Kit went on to complete his tour and then after a short time out of the RAF he re-joined. He went on to serve overseas including the Indonesian Confrontation. He flew in various aeroplanes including Lincolns, Shackletons and Lockheed Neptunes. He ended his career as a missile controller at RAF Neatishead and Patrigton.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Gibraltar
Singapore
England--Lincolnshire
England--Rutland
Germany--Dresden
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1952
1956
1963
101 Squadron
12 Squadron
218 Squadron
90 Squadron
aircrew
B-29
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
crash
forced landing
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lincoln
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Binbrook
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Hemswell
RAF Woolfox Lodge
RAF Yatesbury
Shackleton
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/571/11419/PFraserDK1608.2.jpg
866d8286004a902d9137e06841b7b081
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/571/11419/AFraserSM180702.2.mp3
baceab81b63c922e43aef6a50ed7ebba
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Fraser, Donald Keith
D K Fraser
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Fraser, DK
Description
An account of the resource
12 items. Two oral history interviews with Warrant Officer Donald Keith Fraser DFM (1924 - 2022, 1566621 Royal Air Force), a memoir, his log book, photographs and service material. The collection also contains an interview with Sylvia Fraser, his wife. He flew a tour of operations as a flight engineer with 101 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Donald Keith Fraser and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 2nd of July 2018 and we’re in Whitchurch in Shropshire speaking with Sylvia Fraser, having spoken already to her husband Donald Fraser. Sylvia, what are you earliest recollections of life?
SF: My earliest recollections are living on the farm in the outskirts of Long Bennington. That’s Nottinghamshire. My father was in farming with my grandfather. He was my mother’s father. And it was a very very long village. That’s why it was called Long Bennington obviously and every British Legion Day which was November the 5th. Was it the 5th? The 11th.
CB: The 11th. Yeah.
SF: Yes. The 11th. There was a very big turn out for people that were in the British Legion and they marched through the village to the church where there was a church service and also the small War Memorial they had. Just a prayer sort of thing there and a salute of course. So that is some of my earliest recollections.
CB: And did you go to school locally?
SF: Yes. I went to school in Long Bennington. I think my school teacher, if I remember right, was a Miss Clark. She was tall. Extremely tall to me of course but I mean she was tall and very slim. Very dark haired. But she was very strict, and so was the head master. The headmaster used to walk with his cane up his sleeve. He never used it that I remember but it was there and you could see it pointing in the top of his shoulder. I think that was enough [laughs] for us small children.
CB: What were your favourite subjects?
SF: I think hand crafts and [pause] Chiefly hand crafts really.
CB: Brothers and sisters?
SF: Yes, I had. There was five of us in the family. My brother was the eldest. Roy. Then Eileen. And there was only, I think something just over a year between them but then I didn’t come along ‘til five years later. And then I had a young sister which was three years younger than me and the baby of the family was Brenda and she was another three years younger than Gert. So that was our family.
CB: And mother was busy running the family but did she have any particular interests?
SF: Well, we had a Mrs Mayfield. She, as mum was confined at home for her children she was a nurse and she stayed, oh probably two to three months at least because previously dad was away from home quite a bit because of his coaches and of course he couldn’t have mum on her own with children. The doctor was in the village, a Dr Wilkie, and he was a very nice fellow.
CB: And when did you leave school?
SF: I left school at the age of fifteen and, but by this time we had moved from Long Bennington to Marston in Lincolnshire.
CB: That’s near Grantham.
SF: Yes. Seven miles from Grantham.
DF: The Thorold Arms.
SF: Pardon?
DF: Thorold Arms.
SF: Yes. We went to the Thorold Arms. My father was a proprieter at the Thorold Arms but he also ran his bus on Mondays, Wednesdays, Saturdays.
CB: For what reason?
SF: Through the villages to take people to market and to do their shopping because there wasn’t much in the villages.
CB: So, you talked about earlier grandfather’s farm. Was there a link between that and the coach arrangements?
SF: No. No.
CB: Quite separate.
SF: Quite separate.
CB: So, he worked on the farm but he also worked with the coach.
SF: Yes. But at that time it wasn’t called a coach. It was a charabanc.
CB: Oh yes.
SF: Which was, they could take the seats out and they could put milk churns in.
CB: Ah.
SF: So, he collected milk from the farms, took them to, to Newark and then he thought well why should I just give somebody the easy work and me do the harder work? So he employed someone that would deliver milk from door to door in Newark and that went on, I don’t know for a couple of years I suppose. At that time I think we had three buses. My dad was lucky in the sense that he had been out in Canada and he was in the Canadian cavalry.
DF: During World War One.
SF: Pardon?
CB: In the First War.
SF: In the First War. And —
DF: Went back there to be demobbed.
SF: Oh, he said to mum, ‘Well, I’d like to go back to Canada to get my release because I don’t think I’ll be going back there again.’ Because mum did not want to emigrate to Canada. So that was agreed and [pause] I should have said in the first place that my grandfather, dad’s father, he was a lay preacher. Wesleyan, and he was very domineering and the family had to kneel as he sat and they had to say their prayers to him every night and every morning. And I think [pause] John, his eldest son, and dad, and his eldest sister they all went to Canada at the same time.
CB: To get away from him.
SF: Yes. Dad never said that but I think it was pretty obvious. My Uncle John, he married out there. He wanted to come back to the UK but his wife didn’t want to so he came back for some time and then dad said, you know he would give him half the business if he would stay. But being as his wife wouldn’t come he said no he would stay here for, I think it was several years hoping his wife Bertha would decide to come but no. She didn’t. So he went back.
CB: So, how did your father get in to running coaches?
[pause]
SF: I don’t really know. I think he decided with the cash that he got sort of redundancies as it were. It wasn’t redundancies because, I mean he came out of the Army on his own accord.
CB: Canadian Army.
SF: Yes.
CB: Yes. And then returned to Britain.
SF: Yes. But he had made quite a lot of money because he’d been in the log camps before that.
DF: And they had horses.
SF: Pardon?
DF: They had horses and ploughs during the winter.
SF: Oh yes. The farmer who he was working with he said, ‘George, if you want to take a team of horses,’ he said, ‘You can do that and work on your own in the winter.’ So that’s what he did. And he did acquire quite a lot of money but I think it was stolen.
CB: How did he come to meet your mother?
SF: Well, he met mother long before that.
CB: Because with the teams of horses I gather from what you were saying he was working those on the farms.
SF: Yes, but that was when he went to Canada and he met mum before.
CB: Oh right.
DF: Heckington, she came from.
SF: My mother came from Heckington which is just outside Lincoln. And her father [pause] he was born in, in a pub and that pub was mentioned in the Domesday Book.
CB: Really?
SF: So, it’s strange really.
DF: She was, her name.
SF: Oh, mum’s name was [Southan]
CB: [Southan]
SF: Yes.
CB: Right. We’ll just pause there for a mo because you need a break on some of these things when we, so the point of the questioning here in a way is how dad got in to the distribution bit.
[recording paused]
CB: So just quickly going back we talked about the charabanc. Which is really a French word, of course but what was the vehicle like because it was adaptable? What did it look like? It had open sides and seats that were removeable, was it?
SF: Yes. Could you just stop it?
CB: Yes.
[recording paused]
CB: It sounds as though it was quite an adaptable vehicle.
SF: Yes, it was. Very much so. And I think at times he would bring various sizes of wood from the woodyard in Newark which was just on the outskirts of Newark for people. So, he was a very busy man.
CB: Yeah. And then socially how did it, how was it used?
DF: For the wedding.
CB: So, the lady who worked for him when she married.
DF: When she went to the wedding in it.
CB: Did you say she went to the, to her wedding in the charabanc?
SF: Yes. She did. And that was in Long Bennington.
CB: Right.
SF: There was an unfortunate incident which occurred when the Lincolnshire Roadcar Company started a bus service. They took dad’s colours and of course it was very difficult in the winter to see what bus was coming so he had a little blue light put on the roof. But it’s all a little bit hazy, I’m afraid.
CB: So he was quite enterprising, wasn’t he?
SF: He was. He was very enterprising but he, he was taken off the road.
DF: And he went to court about it.
SF: He went to court about it and his solicitor said to him, ‘Oh George, you’re very able to defend yourself.’ And dad thought about it and, ‘Well, I can speak for myself.’ And when he got to court who did he meet was his solicitor working for the other side.
CB: Good lord.
SF: And dad said to him in the court, ‘When you can do this to a man with family you will never prosper.’ And he didn’t. He lost both of his children. They died. I don’t know how. You know. It was just a normal sort of death. It wasn’t accidents or anything but he didn’t. And the people in Long Bennington and all around signed petitions to get him back on the road. I don’t know how many.
CB: Did that work?
SF: It did. So he got back on the road and he did excursions then with the buses to the seaside which was all around Lincolnshire. Mablethorpe. Cleethorpes.
CB: Skegness.
SF: Skegness. Chiefly Skegness because that was, well it was the biggest beach wasn’t it? But, and also school trips when we were living in Marston. He was asked to arrange coaches to take the school children. So at this time I think just, we had just two coaches and dad organised with a Mr Searson who used to run through the village at a different time for him to take his vehicle and also a Mr Palfrey from Gonerby which was just outside Grantham to take his small bus and that was the three that took the school children on their summer outing.
DF: And he used to, at the weekend take the air, Air Force people to their stations.
SF: Oh, at [pause] on a Friday he used to pick up airmen from Cranwell and take them to Grantham Station for their weekend leave and he picked them up on Monday morning and took them back to the station. Oh, sometimes it was just on a Sunday night though.
DF: Ok.
CB: So how did he come to get hold of a pub?
SF: Because his route was through Marston he would occasionally call at this pub and I suppose have a glass of beer I would think and [pause] and the, the owner of the pub at that time was a Mr Bristow. His, he had the farm and the pub and he was keen to get rid of the pub and so dad decided to buy it because he could still run his bus in the normal way from there.
CB: And he employed people to run it.
SF: Yes. Only in, only in the evening, on a Saturday. He wanted Roy to become a driver when he was old enough but Roy didn’t want to do anything about it.
CB: Your brother, Roy.
SF: Yes.
DF: Your mum ran the pub during the day.
SF: So mum ran the pub during the day because I mean, it wasn’t terribly busy.
CB: Did the family live in the pub then?
SF: Yes. It was one, two, three [pause] I think there was five bedrooms plus a sitting room upstairs which was quite a large room. And the furniture —
CB: So, he bought this before the war then, did he?
SF: Yes.
DF: 1934 or ’35.
SF: Pardon?
DF: Around about 1934/35.
CB: We’ll just pause there again.
[recording paused]
CB: So, we’ve established you moved. The pub was bought in 1934. You moved school then to Marston where the pub was. What was that like?
SF: I was very happy there but the idea was when I was twelve I would be going to Grantham so I would have to [pause] there was no buses as such that would be suitable for going to school so I’d have to cycle. Which was no trouble to me because I loved cycling. But the war had broken out as I’ve said and Grantham had quite a few factories in it. One was Ruston and Hornsby’s where my brother worked and —
DF: Marcos.
SF: Marcos was the ammunition people. And Eileen, my sister, she worked there on crack detection. And —
DF: Cracked shells.
SF: She finally became —
DF: An inspector.
SF: Pardon?
DF: An inspector.
SF: An inspector.
CB: This is cracks on shell cases.
SF: Yes. She used to have very very sore fingers until she became the one that was the overseer to see that the girls were doing a good job.
CB: So they were feeling for the cracks were they?
SF: I think [pause] they had some liquid or something that they put the shells in and of course with turning them around and around.
CB: Oh, I see. Right.
SF: They would be very sore. Well, when I should have been going to Grantham, to the Secondary School there of course the bombing had started hadn’t it and dad said he didn’t want me to be in Grantham at that time. So —
CB: We’re talking about 1940.
SF: Yes. So that was really the end of my education. But I’d always wanted to be in fashion.
DF: A buyer.
SF: A buyer for a large store.
DF: That was your first job.
SF: And that was my first job in Grantham which was a drapers by the name of Sharpley. And he was a JP, one of the brothers. There was two brothers. Harold and Henry and there was a sister and they owned that and ran it.
CB: In Grantham.
SF: In Grantham.
CB: So your father’s concern, can I just recap there was that if you were working in the munitions or the engineering factories then you might get bombed but in fashion that wasn’t a concern. Was that it?
SF: Yes. The thing is that the, those factories was at the top end of Grantham and the marketing place was a bit, quite a bit lower down. Mind you I don’t suppose that would make a great lot of difference [laughs] because the bombing wasn’t as good as that, was it? But —
DF: You didn’t stay there long anyway and [you went home] [unclear]
SF: No. My wages were seven and six pence a week. And you can imagine what my father thought of that. He wanted me to come home and to help at home and to just go on the bus to take tickets and such like. But I didn’t want that and I said no. And I saw an advert for a sales assistant in a very nice little shop on the High Street in Grantham. It was hosiery and lingerie and the name of it was B&M which was owned, I think by [Blindle and Mead]. Now, [Blindle’s] was known for shoe shops weren’t they? And when I told Harold that I would be leaving he said, ‘You can’t.’ And I said, ‘And why not?’ He said, ‘Because you are apprenticed here.’ And I said, ‘I’m not an apprentice here. Show me where I signed to say I was an apprenticed here.’ And of course, he couldn’t. I was a bit belligerent [laughs] those days, I think. At least I could stand up for myself. And I got the job at this lovely little shop. It was very small. It had two Lloyd Loom wicker chairs and a beautiful walnut table. You know, a small round one. And that’s all there was. The sides was where all the stock was in boxes and the lingerie was in larger cases. The, there was three chandeliers. I don’t mean the glass type. I mean just the bowls and the — [pause]
DF: [unclear]
CB: Pardon?
DF: Not’s much. That’s when all the rationing things came out.
CB: So, materials were rationed in those days as part of the rationing programme, weren’t they?
SF: Yes. They were.
CB: How did that affect the shop and people’s purchases?
SF: Well, we did quite well and the airmen used to come in and the WAAFs. And they had clothing coupons. And sometimes you’d say, ‘Oh, how lovely to see all these coupons.’ You know. And they’d probably give you two, three. So that was great. We had to bank the coupons at the bank. We got little plastic, well cellophane bags and we were allowed to put ninety eight in each which was counted at the bank as a hundred.
DF: Of course, you had all that in the shop. You could then barter with your neighbours.
SF: Oh yes. That was very good. We were never short of food or anything because one side of us was Lipton’s and we knew the manageress very well there and the other side was a gent’s [pause] but they weren’t hairdressers but there was, they sold all the things that men would require. You know, shaving things and [pause] and I used to get Brylcreem. It was a way of bartering in a way.
CB: So, who did you sell the Brylcreem to? The Air Force people, was it?
SF: No. I didn’t sell. I just gave it. There wasn’t all that much about to get anyway so you used to have it, didn’t you?
DF: That’s why I’ve still got hair.
CB: So, the key I think, the thing about rationing is that it covered food and more or less everything you bought.
SF: Yes.
CB: And so for us to understand the importance of it I wonder if you could describe why, first of all why would the Air Force people be coming in to buy clothing. What sort of things did they buy and why did they have ration cards because they were always in uniform weren’t they when they were out and about?
SF: Yes, but the WAAFs used to buy stockings.
CB: What were the stockings made of?
SF: Rayon.
CB: Man-made fibre.
SF: Yes.
CB: Not silk in other words.
SF: Not silk.
CB: Did you sell silk stockings?
SF: No. They weren’t available. The pure silk ones, oh when did they come in? [pause]
CB: You didn’t have the Americans nearby so they weren’t supplying the girls with silk stockings.
SF: Well, there were quite a few Americans about but [pause] well, they were somewhat [pause] paratroopers, weren’t they?
CB: Were they? Right.
SF: And they were, they were horrible in every way.
CB: Oh.
SF: The airmen themselves was fine but well somebody said that if you could suck as hard as you can blow then there would soon be no water in the sea.
CB: Do you want to enlarge on that a bit?
SF: Well, everything in America was great. In England it was very little use. But there was quite a number of girls who would go out with them for the pure silk stockings when they were available. But there was one incident. We used to go across to the Red Lion. This was the manageress and I, on a Saturday for our lunch. We closed for an hour and we could get our lunch in that time because the Red Lion was just across the road. And there was a a man there that was very inquisitive. Wanting to know all about things really we thought a spy would want to know. You know, where was the airfields and such like, and we weren’t prepared to tell him. The, the outcome of that we didn’t know really how it happened but he was a spy and he was picked up but before they could interrogate him he bit on a lethal thing. Now, that was very hush hush. It wasn’t known by a great many people around.
CB: What had he been doing then? Had he been in the shop a lot? Or how did you come to meet him and get this interrogation?
SF: We only met him when we went over to the Red Lion for our lunch.
CB: Right.
SF: And we thought he was too inquisitive and wanting to know too much. And it wasn’t until, it was only about a week or two after we’d met him though that this happened. He was picked up.
CB: Had you reported the incident? Or —
SF: No. We had nothing to do with it.
CB: How do you think he was rumbled?
SF: We never found out and I really couldn’t say. Not unless it was the police in Grantham.
CB: Where did he bite on the pill? In the town somewhere or, what happened there?
SF: Yes. When the police took him.
DF: Arrested.
SF: Pardon?
DF: Arrested.
SF: When they arrested him. He did it immediately.
CB: Oh. Now, in the background you’ve got all these Air Force people around. How did you come to meet Donald Fraser, who became your husband?
SF: Well, he came to the pub. The Thorold Arms. I I just remember him coming in. I thought actually there was a group of you but you said there was only two, didn’t you? Or four. There was four of them came in then and [pause] I served them. I don’t know how many times I served them because there was just dad and myself. I wouldn’t have been able to have done this if my father hadn’t have owned a pub because you weren’t allowed I think until you were seventeen.
DF: Christmas 1944 you are talking about now.
SF: Yes.
CB: This is 1944.
DF: Yeah.
SF: Ahum.
DF: I could butt in here but if you were stopping I could give you —
CB: We’ll just stop for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: So clearly there are two sides of this story because we’ve got Donald in the room and you wouldn’t have known what he was doing there but he was at Bottesford and they’d been doing various tasks there and came to Grantham which is how you met. So, Donald what was the background of this?
DF: The background to that was we had just finished operations and been posted to [Lindholme] first of all. Then I went on an instructor’s course and then we were moved to Bottesford. And Bottesford was such a mess we had to clean it up. And this was our first time the 24th of August 1944. My 21st birthday so I remember it. So, we went down to the main road and as I say Newark was to the left. Grantham was to the right. So most people used to go on to Newark. We decided we would go on the Grantham Road. About three or four miles down the road was the A1 at that time. Still is. But we turned off down a small road for about a mile and here was a crossroads and on the side of it was the Thorold Arms, Marston. The Thorold Arms. We didn’t know what it was at that time so we decided we’d stay there and have my first beer. The rest of them had a bit more than me I think, even that night. We were cycling so we stayed there for two or three hours and then we went back to, to base.
CB: Oh, you cycled did you?
DF: Yes.
CB: Oh right.
DF: And from then on we decided that was our pub and we went there and somehow I got caught up with Sylvia.
CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: So, let me just restart. So here you’ve got some lads who are energetic and needing a bit of a change. And how much beer can you allow them to have because there’s rationing going on?
SF: Well [pause] dad used to just open. We got our beer in on a Wednesday so we had beer Wednesday night. He would sell so much and then it was just minerals.
CB: Oh.
SF: And we used to have some beautiful real grapefruit mineral and it would only keep for something like I think a fortnight. So if we hadn’t sold a great lot of that because there was no refrigeration in those days but of course your cellar was very cool. As children you used to drink it up, you see. And our pals.
CB: Of course. So in 1944 here you are aged seventeen. These chaps come in. What can they do? What are the activities in the pub?
SF: Oh, play darts. And I was quite a good dart player at that time and we used to have dart matches with a pub at Barkston. They’d play one week in Barkston, one in Marston. But dad used to transport these people free of charge in the bus.
CB: For the matches.
SF: Yes. For the matches and Mr, Mr Dodd was our captain and once or twice he would make a team up within the people that was in the, in the bar at the time and once or twice he would say, ‘Oh, Sylvia, I need an extra. You can be on this side or that side.’ You know. So I got to be quite good at darts. And then when it came to this dart match at Barkston we’d already played them in Marston, in the Thorold Arms so we had to go to Barkston. Well, when my mum heard that they wanted me to go to Barkston to play darts, ‘No daughter of mine was going to do that.’ I said, ‘What’s the difference mum?’ I wanted to go. I said, ‘My dad will be there. Mr Dodd will be there.’ No. So, anyway, Mr Dodd had to really talk and say, ‘We really need her.’ So I was allowed to go. So it seemed that mum was so strict in one sense but not all the way through, you know.
CB: Had she met Donald by at time? Because he’d been in the pub.
SF: Oh yes.
CB: So she thought he was a likely lad for you?
SF: Oh yes. She knew you very well, didn’t she? And your friend, Jack Boulton.
DF: Yeah, we met him also at Bottesford. He was one of the ones at Bottesford. There was also another chap from Glasgow. A bit older than us. He was, that was the three of us kept going to the pub afterwards. But on a Saturday night there used to be a good singsong going in the, in the pub.
CB: So, what entertainments did the pub run?
SF: Well, there was a piano and there was a singsong could break out anytime really.
DF: Her dad used to keep so much beer for the weekend so that locals also had a share of it.
SF: Yes. Well, there was that paratrooper. He was in the Signals, wasn’t he? He was, he could play anything by ear.
CB: American?
SF: You know.
CB: American paratrooper?
SF: No.
CB: No. British. Right.
SF: British. He was in the Signals, wasn’t he?
CB: So how did you, your father control the beer because you said that deliveries were on Wednesdays? Were there other deliveries or only the Wednesday one?
SF: No. There was only the Wednesday delivery.
CB: So how did he spread it out? Or did you run dry fairly quickly?
SF: No. He used to keep some for the weekend, didn’t he?
DF: He probably had to close down Thursday and Friday.
SF: Thursdays and Fridays we were closed.
CB: Because you didn’t have beer.
SF: Well, we were closed only in as much as we didn’t sell beer. Lemonade and the grapefruit as I said was sold.
DF: But also, at one time when you wanted more, some of the Army people in the area wanted to have a night out before they were going abroad.
SF: Oh, no.
DF: You went to the —
SF: Oh, that’s a different story. The [pause] we had airmen from, oh gosh [pause]
DF: It doesn’t matter. Nearby.
SF: Nearby then, and airmen as you know from the Bottesford end but these were ground staff.
CB: You had Spitalgate on the doorstep.
SF: No [laughs] it wasn’t on the doorstep really [laughs] It was —
CB: Barkston Heath.
SF: Yes. There was Barkston Heath which was where the paratroopers came from. The Signals Division. They came from Barkston Heath and they used to cycle down so it must have been a pretty good pub for them to all congregate there. But they wanted to, to have a final get together and so they said to dad could they do it. He said, ‘Well, no. I’m sorry but I’ve got to think of my locals.’ So, I worked in a small —
DF: You’ve said that.
SF: Ah, but that’s not the same one. Shop, at the top of the town and that was lady’s fashions and all the things that goes with that and across the road was the brewery.
CB: Oh.
SF: Marston’s.
CB: From the shop.
SF: Yes.
CB: Nice.
SF: Marstons Brewery. And I said to dad, ‘Look, I could pop across and see if I could get a little extra.’ And he said, ‘You’ve no hope of that.’ And I said, ‘Well, let me try.’ So, he said, ‘Oh well. You can. But don’t be surprised if the manager won’t even speak to you knowing what you would want.’ So I went across and in to reception, said, ‘Could I see the manager?’ ‘For what reason?’ So I said, ‘Well, I would like to see if I could get more beer for a special occasion.’ And she said, ‘You can try but I don’t think you’ll succeed.’ So, there was this great big, it was an extra wide door about like that I would think but it was covered in green baize and you know, the brass studs and actually my heart did sink into my boots for a minute or two [laughs] But anyway, I went in and I said the reason I was there. So as these airmen could have a last drink together and he said, ‘Well, supposing I could find a small amount. How would I get it to you?’ I said, ‘Well that would be no problem at all.’ I said, ‘Mowbray’s beer lorry comes past our pub, the Thorold Arms in Marston,’ I said, ‘Every Wednesday and every Thursday delivering to other villages around abouts.’ ‘Oh.’ So, in the end I got my small barrel of beer. I think it was something like, was it nine gallons?
DF: Or fifteen gallons.
SF: Oh, that was a big ones. No. I didn’t get a big one.
CB: Well, a firkin is seventy two pints.
DF: That would be it.
SF: That would be what I would get I would think. Anyway, I came out really very happy that I was able to tell my dad I’d got some beer after all [laughs]
CB: So, how did your relationship with Donald progress because you were busy in the bar and he was busy in the RAF?
SF: Well, we just —
CB: Were there parties around that you could go to? Dances in Grantham because there were lots of people about?
SF: Yes, but I wouldn’t go to the dances in in in Grantham. They were a bit wild. In fact, you said if I’d ever gone with my manageress he wouldn’t have gone out with me. But I didn’t know that at the time. It was only later that you said that wasn’t it?
CB: You said that the pub had to think about its own regulars. Did you get, did the pub get many, a lot of local people there and who were they?
SF: Well, there was the farm workers, there was the farm owners and we had a very big corporation farm and the manager was a Mr Kerr.
CB: They were farm people but did you get people from the manufacturing activities in Grantham or did they not come out your way?
SF: No. They wouldn’t come that distance because you see the only way they could come out really was on cycles. Well, they weren’t going to do that when it was on their doorstep.
CB: Yeah.
DF: We became regulars.
CB: Yes.
DF: Just as if we were one of the, there for a long time you know.
CB: I’m wondering what the balance between local people and RAF people was in the pub as clientele.
DF: There wasn’t many more RAF than what we were. Occasionally there would be an extra one but we were about the only RAF that came at certain times, weren’t we?
SF: Yes. We also had a lot of paratroopers, didn’t we?
DF: Yes, but they weren’t regulars. They were just passing through, weren’t they?
SF: Well, I don’t know. There was [pause] there was the two dispatch riders. One from the artillery and one from the signals and they were pretty regular, weren’t they? One of them came from Spalding.
CB: Right.
SF: His name was Johnny [Pick]. Do you remember him? And another one came from London and he was Pete [Augustine] I think his name was. So, they were fairly regular.
CB: Yes. Just changing the subject now. All these airfields dotted around created a lot of flying activity. Coming with that is noise. So, what was the effect of that?
SF: We didn’t notice the noise so much but it was the planes. They were circling around and around and around. I couldn’t understand this until I spoke to Donald about it but you see there was twenty eight, was it airfields?
DF: In Lincolnshire.
SF: In Lincolnshire. So they were all needing to gain height before going over the coast.
CB: Bomber Command airfields. Yes.
SF: Yes. And [pause] and that’s why they were circling.
DF: There must have been a bit of noise because if they were putting up twenty planes, they were all spiralling up. Four engines in each plane.
CB: Well, up to thirty on airfield wasn’t there? Well, more sometimes.
SF: I don’t remember the noise somehow.
CB: Don’t you?
SF: No. There must have been noise right enough.
CB: Then Donald was posted away so how did you keep in touch?
SF: Well, I had also moved before you moved away. I took up a position in Stamford.
CB: So that’s twenty miles south.
SF: Yes. So I would only be home at weekends but —
CB: What did you do in Stamford?
SF: I [pause] I was at Parish’s which was —
CB: Ah yes. In the High Street.
SF: That’s right. You knew them, did you?
CB: I know them well. Yes.
SF: Well, I stayed with a Mrs Franklin who, her husband had died some, I think about two years or three years before I went there and [pause] what was the secretary’s name in Sharpleys? Oh, she was a Plymouth Brethren.
CB: Oh, was she? Right.
SF: Yes. But she was awfully nice and she said, ‘I know someone who would look after you, Sylvia.’ So she took me to see Mrs Franklin and that’s where I left. It was just a small terraced house. Two bedrooms.
CB: She was a war widow, was she?
SF: No.
CB: Just getting on a bit.
SF: Yes. She was.
CB: And what, you were getting more money there. Is that why you went?
SF: Yes.
CB: So how much more did you earn when you went there?
SF: I think it was one twenty five or one seventy five. One seventy five I think to begin with and then you got commission on selling various things.
CB: How was it —
So, I used to see Donald then.
DF: At weekends.
SF: Hmmn?
DF: Just at weekends.
SF: Just at the weekends.
DF: Until we moved from Bottesford to Cottesmore. And that was the same. It was just weekends because I could travel.
CB: That was closer.
DF: Yes.
CB: Really.
DF: I used to get lifts on on the main roads across.
CB: Down the A1.
DF: Yeah. Just down —
CB: Straight down to Stamford.
DF: Stamford.
CB: Yeah.
DF: That’s right.
CB: What did it cost you to have digs with Mrs Franklin if you weren’t [pause] you ended up with more money in the end did you?
SF: Yes, I did. But not very much [pause] because by the time you’d paid for your train fare.
CB: Oh yeah.
SF: To get back to Grantham where your father picked you up. Well, as he said I’d be better if I’d stayed at home but I didn’t want to stay at home.
CB: You’d had enough of the pub life had you?
SF: No. I quite enjoyed that really and meeting people but I really, my aim was to be a fashion buyer. Even if it meant moving further south.
CB: And you wanted independence.
SF: Yes. I wanted independence too.
CB: We’ll just pause there for a mo.
[recording paused]
SF: You used to bring some and give to dad from time to time. Or mum. Whoever was at the bar at the time, you know.
CB: Yes.
SF: Oh, I —
CB: And the Americans had the resources, the money and the food.
SF: They did. They did.
Other: I can remember orange juice. Can you? Chris.
CB: Hmmn?
Other: I can remember that orange juice.
CB: Can you?
Other: Yeah.
CB: I can’t remember. Just going back to Donald a mo. At Bottesford they were Airborne Division. 81st Airborne Division were they? Rather than gliders. Troop carrying aircraft in other words.
DF: The Americans used it as a holding base.
CB: Oh, it was a holding base was it?
DF: Just, just for D-Day.
CB: Yes.
DF: All came in probably a fortnight before and were held there.
CB: Oh, I see.
DF: And then went over to the south coast before they went over.
CB: But they got a bit over exuberant about their —
DF: Yeah.
CB: Method of leaving.
DF: That’s true. Before that it was a Bomber Command station flying Lancs.
CB: And then it reverted to that when you went there.
DF: Yes. It came back in to a unit coming from the light aircraft to heavy aircraft training unit. Yeah. And we came and opened it up again.
CB: Yeah.
DF: But it was still not a very good accommodation. It was, it wasn’t as bad as Ludford but it was still huts.
CB: Yeah, because it had been, just been knocked up in the war.
DF: Yeah. It was a wartime base the same as Ludford but it was made of wood instead of Nissen huts.
CB: Oh, they were wooden huts were they?
DF: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
DF: And Ludford was Nissen huts and we used to get, in the winter drops from the condensation dropping on the bed.
SF: Yeah. Horrid [laughs]
DF: Around the summer it was so hot we used to have the field mice coming in and the earwigs coming in. It wasn’t very nice. And in the winter one, one fire for the whole unit.
CB: Yeah. A coke fire in the middle.
DF: In the middle.
CB: With a chimney straight up.
SF: That was it.
DF: That was all the —
DF: Yeah. All the heating. And if you think of coming back there at night.
SF: Freezing cold.
DF: Freezing cold. I joined, one of the reasons I joined the Force, the Air Force was because I thought well I’ll always have —
SF: A fry up.
DF: A good unit to come back. Clean sheets and that. Well, we always had clean sheets but that was about it [laughs] because on Ludford there wasn’t any paths or anything made.
CB: Right.
DF: The unit was built in six weeks by Wimpey.
CB: Was it really?
DF: And then that was the flying side of it.
CB: Yes.
DF: But they forgot about the personnel needed to get from A to B and it was called Mudford. Not Ludford.
CB: Yes. Yes.
DF: Because of the mud. Rubber boots was—
SF: Horrible.
DF: The only thing you could —
CB: What you had to have.
DF: If you were going, say in to Louth in the evening you had your rubber boots on and you hid them in the hedge side before you put on your shoes to, to go on the bus to Louth.
CB: How often were you allowed out?
DF: Well, there was two sides of it. You were flying usually when it was dark.
CB: Yeah.
DF: So you had a fortnight on and a fortnight off, you know. The dark side of it. The moonlight side you weren’t very often flying when it was a full moon or anything like that.
CB: No.
DF: So you had more or less then a month. Two weeks on, two weeks off of flying. I think that’s what it was but you never never knew when something was just going to come. I mean, like going to, across the Alps. We went in full moonlight and everybody was taken by surprise because doing a moonlight flight against the normal dark was a surprise. So a lot of the crews weren’t fit to because they were having a good time in the pubs thinking there was no flying tonight.
CB: No. Quite. No. But taking the other side of the question to Sylvia about the rationing of beer to what extent did you need to move between pubs simply because the pubs were short of beer?
DF: I suppose they did. I was never in a pub during my flying time.
CB: No.
DF: On the station I was never in a pub. There was two pubs in Ludford. There’s one now. There’s one closed. But I was never inside either but listening to the, well two or three of the crew didn’t drink either but the wireless operator liked his drink and so did the mid-upper gunner and they used to say many times there was no, no beer in the one and they had to go to the other, you know. But I think they did very well. The ground crew used to complain about them having to pay the same amount of money as the flying ones for their beer. I think it was put up by a penny in those days for the flying crews and they decided they weren’t going to have that and they took all the, all the chairs and tables outside and put them in the canal next door until the landlord said, ‘Oh, well we’ll take the penny off again.’ [laughs]
SF: [laughs] Oh dear.
CB: Would you call it sort of destructive inc — [laughs]
DF: As I say I wasn’t involved with these things.
[recording paused]
CB: Well, Sylvia we’ve been talking about a wide variety of things. We’ve talked about you being at in Stamford and at Parish’s.
SF: Yes.
CB: So at that stage we’re talking about the end of the war you’re seventeen coming up eighteen. What did you do next? Because technically at eighteen you could be called up.
SF: Well, I wasn’t called up.
DF: The war would be over by then.
SF: It would be over, wouldn’t it?
DF: It was over in May 1945. Yes. Oh, you were still at home because we went to Buckingham Palace on VE Day. I did.
CB: Did you? You both went.
SF: No. Just Donald.
CB: So, VE Day was the 8th of May 1945.
DF: That’s right.
CB: What did you both do then?
DF: Well, I was still at Bottesford at that time.
CB: Yeah.
SF: But your mum and your auntie, that was his mum’s sister, they were travelling down.
DF: This was to collect the DFM.
CB: Ah.
DF: Of course, we didn’t know it was VE Day at the time.
CB: No.
DF: When it was all arranged.
CB: Of course.
DF: But VE, that was the day we went to London and my mother and her sister travelled down from Edinburgh and I caught the train in Grantham about 5 o’clock in the morning. So we got in to London about the time, I think it was 11 o’clock, eleven fifteen we had to be there. It was the King at that time, of course.
CB: Yes. Of course.
DF: And then spent a couple of hours there or so and then [unclear] at the hotel because they were staying in London overnight and I made my way back to Bottesford. Well, to Sylvia and she —
SF: To Grantham.
DF: To Grantham.
CB: What were, what were you doing on VE day? Or what did you do? Were you still in Stamford?
SF: No. No. I was back home and I was, I don’t actually know what I was doing on VE Day.
CB: Some people had huge celebrations. Other people didn’t do anything.
Other: Huge in London, weren’t they?
SF: Well, I had said that I would meet Donald with a bicycle somewhere outside Grantham because I was quite comfortable riding a bike and pushing the other one. And someone that lived at the petrol station on the M1 —
CB: A1.
SF: A1 that was. His name was Ronald [Ebert] and he used to go to the Kings School in Grantham and I saw him on his way home. He was on his bike and I said, ‘Have you passed an airmen walking?’ And he said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘But you’ve just come back from school haven’t you?’ ‘Yes, that’s right.’ Well, there had been a lorry full of airmen that had passed me going towards Bottesford. Well, you know what they were all like. Whistling and all the rest of it. I stopped and turned around and there was one lad in particular was waving like this and I thought that must be Donald. So as Ronald said there was no airmen that he had seen I decided I’d go back to the end of the road and see if he had got off there. Well, no. There was nobody there. And I waited around a little while and I thought well, its stupid waiting here. You know. He’s not walking all the way from Grantham.
DF: Grantham Station.
SF: And he’s not got off the lorry here. So, I don’t know what he’s decided to do and in the end I cycled home. My next sister Gertrude she was an awful tease. Always a tease. And she was looking out the window and she said, ‘Oh, Sylv, Jock’s walking down the road now.’ I thought that was another tease. However, she turned. She said, ‘It is. Come and have a look for yourself.’ And I did. I felt about that big because he’d walked all the way from Grantham station.
DF: Seven miles.
SF: All the way home.
CB: Good thing he was a fit man.
SF: Yes, he was a fit man. There’s no doubt about that. And [pause] anyway, the cycle was still there the next morning. Did dad take you back?
DF: No. I don’t think so. I stayed there anyway. But you had a good evening. It was one of those jolly nights where there was plenty to drink wasn’t there?
SF: Oh yes.
DF: One of the things they were doing was cutting the ends off people’s ties.
SF: Yes. You know the short end, the narrow end. They were cutting anything from about two inches to five inches.
DF: Until they came to one couple and she had just bought him this new tie for his birthday that day and that caused a bit of an uproar.
CB: Could have been injured by the scissors for doing that.
SF: He could really. I don’t know how you got hold of the scissors either.
CB: So, after VE Day then what because you’re working in Grantham again now.
SF: Yes [pause] Oh, yes. We got married.
DF: Yeah. That was ’48.
CB: 1948.
DF: You must have stayed in Stamford. You didn’t come back to —
SF: No. I did stay in Stamford.
DF: You stayed in Stamford.
SF: For quite a time.
DF: At the time. You were still in Stamford when I went north in ’47.
CB: Right.
DF: And then 1948 I travelled down to Marston to get married there and you were still in Stamford at that time. In fact, you were still in Stamford the year after. In 1947 was when it was a very bad winter.
CB: Yes. Extremely.
SF: Oh, it was.
DF: All the roads were closed.
CB: Yeah.
DF: And I had decided to come from Scotland for a few days to Stamford and then we would come back to Marston but all the traffic on the roads were blocked up and I got off and I got transport down and got off in Stamford and I was going to see Sylvia where she stayed with Mrs Franklin. But this was 1 o’clock in the morning and of course I couldn’t make them hear. I went in a cell.
SF: Well actually Mrs Franklin did hear you and she said to me, ‘Sylvia, I think there’s somebody at the door. Would you get up and see if you can see anyone?’ Because I was at the front of the house. And I looked and couldn’t see anyone and the knocking had stopped.
DF: I had thrown, thrown a few snowballs at the window.
SF: But he had been throwing snowballs at the window.
CB: Disgraceful [laughs]
SF: Yes, it was, wasn’t it? [laughs]
DF: As you know I ended up in the police station.
CB: Yes, I can imagine. Yes.
DF: I got in a cell for the night.
CB: It was warm, wasn’t it?
DF: It was warm.
SF: I bet you were frozen, weren’t you?
DF: It wasn’t so bad inside the police station. It was warm in there.
CB: So you got married in ’48. Just pass backwards to that or forwards to that. Then what? Because where did you actually settle down in your married life.
DF: About a year after that.
SF: Oh.
CB: Were you still, did you stay with your parents, Sylvia?
SF: Yes.
CB: When you were married.
SF: Yes. I stayed with my parents for a time.
CB: After you were married. Yeah.
SF: Because you went to the Botanics, didn’t you?
DF: Yes. I went to the Botanic Gardens in Edinburgh. Did a course there and then I joined the Forestry Research Branch and was travelling the country for two years looking at plantations and taking records of the trees and all that for making the tables for the cubic feet and the, each tree after that, you know. So I was travelling a fortnight here a, month there visiting many places. And then after we got married we decided that we should try and get a place to have a base. So we got married in the autumn and I think by the next spring they said, ‘Well, if you want a base to be at there’s a base at Tulliallan, which was one of the large nurseries and what I was interested in was research on small trees anyway so that sounded right unbeknowning that where I was born was on Tulliallan Estate in one of the cottages just next to this large nursery. And the manager of the nursery who had been in the First World War and came through it and then took a a course on nurseries to do that. He was still there. That was twenty five years later. He was still there at the nursery as in charge of it. And I don’t know. It’s going to be funny coming there. Anyway, when we, when we got there Mr Simpson was his name. He didn’t like the people in —
SF: Research.
DF: Researchers coming in to research because they were all usually people who hadn’t been through the war. They’d been on, obviously forestry was a restricted —
CB: Yeah. A Reserved Occupation.
DF: A Reserved Occupation.
CB: Yes.
DF: So, he didn’t like them and we found out later the reason why. His son was a conscientious objector so that caused problems.
CB: Yes.
DF: So, when I got there and met the research people there right enough none of them had been in the war you, know and we had a discussion and said, ‘Well, what are you going to do?’ And I said what I wanted to do and they said, ‘Well, you’ll have to get permission from Mr Simpson, and he won’t give us anything.’ I said, ‘Well, I’ve never found that in anybody yet.’ So the next morning I went down to his office to see him. I went in there and he said, ‘Who are you?’ I said, ‘Oh, I’m a new research person coming in the top there.’ ‘I suppose you’re another one of these that’s never been in the war.’ I said, ‘No, I’m not.’ I said, ‘I’ve been in the war.’ You know. ‘What were you doing?’ I said, ‘I was flying on Lancasters.’ He said, ‘When?’ I said, ‘From ’43.’ And he was up off his chair. He had lost an arm in [unclear] got off his chair, shook our hand and that, you know and he said, ‘What was your name?’ I said, ‘Fraser.’ He said, ‘Oh, about twenty years ago,’ he said, ‘I bought, there used to be a Fraser staying in the lodge down there. I bought his chickens when he left.’ I said, ‘Yeah. That was my dad.’
SF: Strange, isn’t it?
DF: So, after that he hadn’t been on a holiday for a long time but a month or two months after that he came and said, ‘Are you doing anything the next week or two?’ I said, ‘Not a lot. I’m just doing the work here.’ He said, ‘Would you look, and Sylvia, would you look after our house for three weeks. We want to go and see our son.’ I said, ‘We’ll do that alright for you.’ So we stayed there three weeks and the people in the nursery were entirely, didn’t know what to say because none of the staff got on with him because, I think mainly it was because his son was a conscientious objector.
CB: Yeah.
DF: And we had broken that down for him and we became very good friends.
CB: Amazing.
SF: Yes, and in the end he wouldn’t have anything to do with his son.
CB: Wouldn’t he?
SF: It was just his mother.
CB: Yeah. Terrible embarrassment.
Other: Yeah.
SF: Yes, and in the end we did get them together.
DF: In the end I told him —
SF: We said, ‘It’s silly you know. You losing your son just because of your principals and your son losing his mum and dad.’ I mean she used to speak to him on the phone but not very often because well, there weren’t that many phones about was there?
CB: No.
DF: We used to go up and our, my family stayed in [Aberdour] and used to go across to see them at the weekend and if there was a high gales and that because at that time there was no road bridge it was just a ferry. So coming across on the ferry you had to around by Kincardine and back again we used to call and see him. And this weekend when we called in we didn’t know we were going but the weather was such that we had to go round that way. He’d just had a heart attack a few hours before that.
CB: Oh, my goodness.
DF: And he wouldn’t let his wife phone the doctor. And she said, ‘I knew you were coming tonight. So, I wasn’t very worried about Arthur.’ That was his name. ‘I knew you would come tonight so’ —
SF: Oh, but it was a shock though to see him lying on the settee.
CB: Unattended.
SF: Yes. And you could see he was very ill.
DF: But he wouldn’t get further, the office was where the phone was. It wasn’t in his house it was just ten yards away from there but he wouldn’t give us the key or tell her where the key was for the office so she could go and phone. We got there and we we got the key from him and —
CB: Sylvia, when you after you got married how soon did you give up work?
SF: I didn’t give it up until I went to Scotland. So —
DF: About two, two years after.
SF: Two years I suppose. And then we went in to a friend’s house. We had rooms there. We had the run of the kitchen. We could do what we liked. They had a parlour and we could use that for our breakfast or whatever. Then we had another small room which was really the library. It was covered in books.
DF: It was —
SF: And —
DF: It was two sisters who had it. [they were leasing it] they stayed there. They were two schoolteachers weren’t they?
SF: Yes. And their brother stayed there.
DF: Yes. Their brother. He was in the headquarters of Scotland during the war or something like that you know. Government.
CB: We’ve covered lots of things. Can we go fast backwards to your earliest days when you were in the farm and the pub as well? We have a lot of links in the countryside with farms. So you controlled, your diet is controlled by a number of things. One is the rationing but actually the farmers were able to supplement that. How did they do it?
SF: Well, my mother always bought her butter pre-war and during the war from a farmer. Mrs Wright wasn’t it? She used to make the butter and sell it and mum always bought that from her. So she continued to do that. She had to give her butter coupons up but that didn’t matter and we got more than what we should have done. The, there was a small shop in the village which was run by two sisters, Miss [unclear] I can’t remember the names.
DF: [unclear]
SF: It doesn’t matter really. And they knew that we used to buy a lot of cheese from them. Well, we couldn’t buy a lot of cheese from them because it was rationed but anybody that didn’t take their full amount of cheese they sold it to mum.
DF: They used to have it in the pub then.
SF: So on a darts match we used to hand round the bread and cheese and that was it but there was bread and cheese and they were all you know got a piece of two or four. Whatever was there because it went round once and then what else was left. In fact, I’ve still got the plate because well it’s worth a little bit of money. Not a lot. But its, its one about that size. And well —
DF: And you had the pigs.
SF: Pardon?
DF: And you had the pigs.
SF: Oh. We had. Dad had a sow and he used to breed from her. And the last time I suppose we’d had two or three sows during that time but the last time he decided he was going to finish and he would have her killed for our own purposes. Well, she’d had what they call a sort of, they called it the purples but I think it was like a pig flu.
CB: Oh.
SF: And she wouldn’t eat. And I started washing an apple and feeding her that. And she came and she was ok. But there was a butcher that used to kill pigs because in in those days the cottages often had a small pig pen at the end of the gardens.
CB: For slaughtering.
SF: Yes. and Mr [Rodding] used to come down and do the necessary for them but —
DF: You used to chop it up and then pass round the neighbours and when they had —
SF: Oh yes.
DF: A month later. Whatever it was they were using.
SF: You know, the liver and the small piece of the pork and that. Whenever anyone had a pig killed they would just hand it to one or two friends and they would reciprocate. So that was fine.
CB: What about the wild animals in the countryside? What did you do about those?
SF: Oh gosh.
CB: There was a bit of shooting going on.
SF: There was.
CB: Rabbits and hares.
SF: Not so much hares. I don’t think there were so many hares about but rabbits, dad used to go up to a friend’s farm. There was two brothers by the name of Tindall. They he used to go up there shooting what once a month or so.
DF: He needed cartridges.
SF: Oh yes. He needed cartridges and of course they were in short supply but there again I was able to get a few cartridges for him because I could get fashion stockings. And if I got fashion stockings for the man that had the gun shop, for his wife then I would get a box of cartridges. Paid for them obviously but that’s what happened. Well, somewhere along the line there was a searchlight station not far from us. In the next village actually and rather strange because it was on the[pause] no. The searchlight station was in our village at the end of the village and —
DF: You used to take them there on your bike.
SF: No. Then —
CB: Did you deliver them yourself?
SF: I I took rabbits because the cook came in and was talking to dad and saying they were very short of meat and it was difficult to know what to feed the lads on. So, dad once, when he’d had been shooting he decided he would send some rabbits up to them. Well, he would gut them and slit the flesh there and, you know put one in to another so as they hung together. And I was dispatched this day to go to this camp and there was nobody on sentry duty and I didn’t know how to attract their attention because I was up here which was the railway bridge and they were down below. So, I was quite a good whistler at that time and my grandma used to say, ‘Stop whistling. A whistling woman and a crowing hen was never fit for man or beast.’ [laughs] Well [pause] I whistled and I attracted someone’s attention. But in the meantime, cycling with [pause] I don’t know.
DF: Six or eight rabbits.
SF: Pardon?
DF: Six or eight rabbits.
SF: Yeah. Yeah. There would be six on one side and six on the other I suppose but I came off my bike didn’t I because one rabbit, one lot of rabbits slipped slightly and of course it caught in the wheel and it got in between the forks of the bike that held the wheel so I came off. Didn’t hurt myself. Picked myself up and got there. But that’s how I attracted their attention and they were very very pleased with their rabbits.
CB: I think we’ll just stop there for a mo.
[recording paused]
CB: I think we’ve done extremely well.
SF: Yes.
CB: So when the family settled down and your son was born when was that?
SF: That was —
DF: 1955 ‘56.
SF: It was [pause] Oh come on Sylvia. It was in Edinburgh.
CB: And you moved there in 1950 did you? Roughly.
DF: We moved from Tulliallan to Bush Estate which is seven miles south of Edinburgh.
CB: Yes.
SF: In 1953.
CB: Right.
DF: The spring of 1953. So it was after that. So it was ’65 then because —
CB: 1955.
Df: ’65.
SF: ’65 when Brian was born.
CB: Oh, ’65, yeah.
DF: ’65 he was born.
CB: Right.
SF: Oh yes, because —
DF: I was about forty or forty two. Something like that.
SF: Because I was in the Scottish Women’s Institute and I was on the committee. I was treasurer for it and it was such a small group that we had to do various things to get money to spend. So we thought we would put on a concert and [pause] and that was just at the time I became I pregnant. And I was the person that was to open it, you know be on the stage in my dressing gown and I said to the doctor that we had known, he was a Yorkshireman actually because he used to say, ‘There’s not many Yorkshire doctors in Scotland but you found one.’ And I said to him, ‘Oh, when the district nurse comes will you tell her not to come to visit me until —’ Because I didn’t want other people to know I was pregnant at the time I was going to do the sketch to get money for the Institute. So he thought that was funny. So we had a laugh about that. He was lovely. And he decided I should go in to the Nursing Home previously. I think I’d just gone over my time and he said, ‘Because you are an elderly person we need to take good care of you and your baby.’ So I went in and they started things moving. In fact, you came to seem me didn’t you?
DF: The night before I went away?
SF: Yes.
DF: When Brian was born I was in Lanarkshire or something.
SF: Yes. He went and left me you see [laughs] terrible. He —
DF: That was the 23rd of September.
SF: Yes. It was the 23rd of September. It would be the 22nd that I went in and I, well I’d had pains and then after you left that evening you went home and you said you wouldn’t come in the next morning because you were going to Lanark and the pain stopped. I don’t know. Never felt any more for ages. In fact, they decided that they would break the waters themselves and they did a Caesarean section. And Brian came in to the world, I think it was about 3 o’clock. And you couldn’t come in that night, could you?
DF: No.
SF: So it was the next day before he saw his son.
CB: And time went on and he decided to follow his father into the same sort of business.
DF: That’s right. Yes.
SF: Yes. Yes, he did.
CB: Well, we’ve covered so many things. Thank you, Sylvia. Absolutely fascinating.
DF: When he was at school he was a very good, he was captain of the rugby team
CB: Oh was he?
DF: Captain of the cricket.
CB: Yeah.
DF: Captain of the riverboat team.
CB: Right.
DF: And he used to run.
CB: Talented man.
DF: Yes. He was on county running.
SF: Yes, because for Paul’s wedding —
DF: He’d rather run than go to it.
SF: He rang his cousin did he mind if he didn’t come to his wedding because he wanted to run for the county.
CB: Right.
SF: And he never finished that run because he pulled —
CB: Oh.
SF: A tendon. Oh, he was so disappointed. He said, ‘I missed my cousin’s wedding. I missed what I wanted to finish and do, you know.’
CB: Yes. Yeah.
SF: But however, that’s, that’s life, isn’t it?
CB: Yes. All spoiled. Yes. Thank you very much indeed.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sylvia Fraser
Description
An account of the resource
Discusses her father's pre-war charabanc business and the pub he ran during the war. Also mentions her work in a factory in Grantham and the occasion when a possible spy took his own life when he was arrested. One day an airman and his friends decided with his friends to celebrate his twenty first birthday in the pub and he met Sylvia and became a regular visitor. Donald and Sylvia married in 1948. There are occasional interjections by her husband Donald Fraser and they also discuss their post war life.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-02
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AFraserSM180702, PFraserDK1608
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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02:10:59 audio recording
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1944
1947
1948
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Grantham
England--Stamford
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Language
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eng
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
home front
love and romance
RAF Barkstone Heath
RAF Bottesford
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Staves, Malcom Ely
M E Staves
Description
An account of the resource
77 items. The collection concerns Flying Officer Malcom Staves (1924 - 2012, 1591418, 203137 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, items, documents, photographs, and training notebooks. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 207 Squadron. <br /><br />There is also a sub collection concerning Flight Lieutenant <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/1020">D A MacArthur.</a><br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Christina Chatwin and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Staves, ME
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Malcolm Staves' National Insurance Contribution Record
Description
An account of the resource
A card issued to Malcolm Staves advising him of his National Insurance record
Creator
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Great Britain. Ministry of National Insurance
Date
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1949-03-06
Format
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Two envelopes, five printed sheets with handwritten annotations
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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OStavesME203137-160226-140001,
OStavesME203137-160226-140002,
OStavesME203137-160226-140003,
OStavesME203137-160226-140004,
OStavesME203137-160226-140005,
OStavesME203137-160226-140006,
OStavesME203137-160226-140007
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cottingham (East Riding of Yorkshire)
England--Yorkshire
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1947
1948
1949
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1105/11564/PRoseHP1801.1.jpg
ad6f5f49ca330c1caf60a4e83c743b08
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1105/11564/ARoseHP180222.2.mp3
2c049fdb339502cf5b435f4fb4b0f6cc
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rose, Hayden Philip
H P Rose
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Philip Rose (b. 1924, 1654274, 185661 Royal Air Force). He flew operations a flight engineer with 426 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Rose, HP
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GR: Right. This is Gary Rushbrooke for the IBCC on the 22nd of February 2018 and I am with Flight Lieutenant Philip Rose at his house in York. Philip, just when was you born sir? What was, what was your birthdate?
HPR: My birthday is the 27th of July 1924.
GR: 1924. And did you, we’re in York, did you, was you born in York? Did you grow up around —
HPR: No. I was born in, in South Wales.
GR: Oh right.
HPR: And joined the RAF in 1943.
GR: 1943. Yeah.
HPR: PNB. Which is pilot, navigator, bomb aimer system. I then remustered to flight engineer. Then went to St Athans to be trained.
GR: Yes.
HPR: Completed my, my training there. Then I was waiting for a crew so they sent me to [pause] where was it? I’m trying to think of the name of the place. Anyway, I was sent there for two weeks. Oh, Isle of Sheppey.
GR: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HPR: Unfortunately, a terrible place to go because that was where the people who were, decided they had a lack of moral fibre and they were stripped of their, of their brevets and what have you.
GR: That’s where they went. Yeah. If they’d been lack of moral fibre. Coming away from their base.
HPR: That’s right. They were out to the Isle of Sheppey. Then they were, you know they would be marched out.
GR: So they had people training there as well?
HPR: They, I don’t know whether they, no. I wasn’t.
GR: No.
HPR: I was only waiting for, for a crew.
GR: But even so you’re waiting there.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: And you’re seeing these people.
HPR: Absolutely.
GR: And we won’t come to that.
HPR: Yeah. So, you know they were stripped. They just said, ‘You’re not, you’ve been found guilty of lack of moral fibre and the sentence is that you will be stripped down to AC2s again.’ So they just used to pin their stripes on them, tear them off, tear their beret off and say —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: That’s it. You’re back to, back to the cookhouse sort of thing. So that was that. I was there. Then a crew arrived from Canada. My crew. We met up then at Riccall. The Heavy Conversion Unit.
GR: Heavy Conversion Unit.
HPR: At Riccall.
GR: At Riccall. Yeah.
HPR: Did our six weeks training there on Halifaxes.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And then joined the squadron. 426 Squadron at Linton On Ouse.
GR: At Linton. Yeah.
HPR: So we did twenty one trips. We were shot down on the twenty first.
GR: Oh right.
HPR: Trip to, as I say to Wanne Einkel.
GR: So, before we come to that we’ll backtrack a little bit. Mum and dad. Did you have any brothers and sisters?
HPR: I’ve got, I’ve got brothers. I’ve got two brothers and two sisters. I did have.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: They’re all dead now. My one brother —
GR: Was you, where was you in the pecking order? Older brother. Younger brother.
HPR: I was the, I was the youngest.
GR: You were the youngest. Yeah.
HPR: I was the youngest. The rest of them were —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: All older than me.
GR: So, schooling was in South Wales.
HPR: Yes. School was in South Wales. I went to the Rhondda County Grammar School. Matriculated from there.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And that was and then went in. Had a bit of [pause] went to work with a, in a factory for a while.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And then three of us who were, we were all working in the factory decided to go and join the RAF. So we went to Penarth which was in South Wales.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Which was the attestation centre, and joined up. And that’s how I started off. And then we got posted to first of all to St John’s Wood.
GR: Yes.
HPR: In London.
GR: So you joined up in 19 —
HPR: 1943.
GR: 1943. Oh, so 19 — yeah.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: What work was you doing in the factory? Bearing in mind the war would have been on.
HPR: Technical. Technical work.
GR: Just yeah.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Yeah. Administration work.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: So it was a company called Simmonds were making special things for the Air Force rather. For the RAF.
GR: Oh right.
HPR: So —
GR: And were, daft question because obviously you were if there were three of you in that factory.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: And even though the factory was doing things for the —
HPR: That’s right.
GR: War work. The RAF.
HPR: You were allowed to volunteer then.
GR: That’s right.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: We all volunteered.
HPR: Yes.
GR: And each of them, one of them became a pilot, one of them became a navigator and I became an engineer.
HPR: Right.
GR: And did the other two survive?
HPR: As far as I know. Yeah, they survived.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: I don’t know where they, what’s happened to them now of course.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
HPR: They’re just gone.
GR: But at the time. Yeah.
HPR: Their own sweet way, sort of thing.
GR: So at the time, yeah you were in the factory. You decided right —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: We’ve all got to join up and join the RAF.
HPR: That’s it. So we all went to Penarth and joined up at the same time. The same day.
GR: Same day. You all went together.
HPR: That’s it.
GR: Oh. wonderful.
HPR: Got through, got the [artist?] did all the usual work that they do, you know. Maths, English and all the rest of it.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And they said, ‘Oh, you’re ok.’ They said to me, they give you a recording when you’re doing that and they play the earphones on and said, ‘Why do you want to be a pilot? Why don’t you be a wireless operator?’ And I said the one thing I didn’t want to be was a wireless operator. They said, ‘Why not?’ ‘Well, you’ve just had a recording with, you had this dit dit dit da da da. And just say are they the same or are they different?’ He said, ‘You had an eighty seven percent on it so you must be good.’ I said, ‘I just did it. I’ve forgotten about it,’ you know. ‘It all went queer and I just said yes. Oh, that’s, yes. No. Yes. Yes. No. And it just happened to be but — ’ I said, ‘No. I don’t want to be that.’ So they said, ‘Right. PNB.’ And then off to London.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: To St John’s Wood.
GR: Was you, was there any gap in between? So once you joined up they didn’t still —
HPR: Oh yes. There was about, they give us a small badge to say that you are RAF Reserve.
GR: Yes.
HPR: About two months.
GR: Yeah. Because there’s some veterans I spoke to said, ‘Oh, yeah they sent us home and we were waiting six months.’
HPR: Yeah.
GR: And we were waiting nine months.
HPR: I waited about two months.
GR: That’s not bad.
HPR: And they gave me a little badge to say that, you know you’re in the RAF.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Virtually. But we’re waiting.
GR: Yes.
HPR: So if anybody said, ‘Why the hell aren’t you —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: In the army.’ Or, ‘Why aren’t you —
GR: Because you’re walking around in —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Yeah. Nobody bringing you a white feather or anything like that.
HPR: That’s it.
GR: So, yeah. So, you were, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. What did you think of St John’s Wood?
HPR: A tremendous place to be but I can remember the one thing about it was the fact that you had all your inoculations, vaccinations virtually at the same time, you know. Outside going up the fire, fire steps of these flats we were in and then being injected in both arms.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And that was it sort of thing. Then we were doing all sorts of things. You know, maths, English and all the rest of it and they said they decided I would be an engineer rather than a pilot. So that was it.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Then I was posted down to, as I said to St Athan. I did my training there. Then joined the, the crew eventually. Having been to see the poor people being stripped of their, their —
GR: Just I find it a strange place.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: To send somebody.
HPR: To send somebody. Absolutely. But it was not only myself. It was quite a few.
GR: No. Yeah. But, yeah any of you to be there and think what’s going off here?
HPR: That’s right, because I got pretty friendly with one chap who had been strapped. His name was Brotherton I think if my memory serves me and he was, flying. He was a wireless operator and he said that he’d had enough. He’d been, he’d flown for about twenty, twenty sorties.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And they said he was lack of moral fibre. He said, ‘I’m quite prepared to go up and fly on flying boats or anything else,’ but he said, ‘I’m not on there anymore.’ So he said, ‘I’ve had enough.’ They shot him. Anyway, they stripped him.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And he went. I don’t know. He was very good. But I remember he was a very good pianist and he used to entertain people while he was there, you know. On the piano and what have you.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And in the NAAFI.
GR: I presume you knew what were going off.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: What did you think?
HPR: Well, I thought, you know I was really sorry for them because these guys they were obviously, you know not a hundred percent in themselves. You could tell that. They were sort of shadow of themselves almost.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: But you said, well you know, ‘It can’t happen to me.’
GR: No.
HPR: We hoped. And that was it.
GR: Yeah. Because obviously, yeah you’re speaking to somebody who has done twenty missions.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: And this is something you’re going to go and do.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: And then you’re listening to him and —
HPR: Yes. Lack of moral fibre and that’s it.
GR: Yeah. We’d have different words for it these days but —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: I’m interrupting. So, yeah. So after that you, how did you meet the crew because obviously when it was like all British crews —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: They used to put you all together in a room and you’d walk around.
HPR: That’s right. Well, we —
GR: Talk to people and —
HPR: We were put in a place called, a manor which is just north of York here. We had a room there. Aldwark Manor.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Aldwark Manor was where we were billeted. We met up there actually. We, and we spent a few days together talking about things and we all seemed to be gelling out ok. And then we were posted down to Riccall.
GR: Right.
HPR: To Heavy Conversion Unit.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Then we went back to Aldwark Manor because that’s where we were going to be billeted when we were flying from Linton On Ouse.
GR: Right.
HPR: So that —
GR: So was you given to the crew?
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Or did the crew approach?
HPR: Yeah.
GR: So you just, you were given a crew.
HPR: That’s right. Oh yes.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Well, we were, I was introduced to the crew.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And they, they really vetted me.
GR: Right.
HPR: Rather than me vet them.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
HPR: And they said, ‘Well,’ you know, ‘You seem a good guy, you know, seen what you’re doing and all the rest of it.’ And we got on remarkably well together as a crew, you know. Excellent.
GR: I think you told me the wireless operator was —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Also British.
HPR: The wireless operator. That’s right. But he’d already joined them.
GR: Right.
HPR: Prior to me going there. He [pause] his name was Twyneham. So, he was from London and he was, he was working in the City somewhere in London before he came, and he went back to that after the war. I can remember. The rest of them came from, most of them, all of them came from all of them came from Canada. The wireless operator was, he was British. The mid-upper gunner was from Saskatchewan. He came from a wheat farming community there. His family were farmers. Johnny de Luca was working for the government in Toronto. Bob, the navigator he was in business in Toronto. And the, the bomb aimer was from Montreal. He was French Canadian. He was the joker in the pack if there ever was a joker. He was quite a, quite a character. So that’s how the crew was formulated.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And as you say we then started down at Riccall. Having finished there started on 426 Squadron at —
GR: Linton.
HPR: At Linton on Ouse.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: That’s the [pause] saying the, the [pause] That’s where he, is the —
GR: Oh right.
HPR: That’s, that’s the skipper’s [pause] skippers burial. I wasn’t there unfortunately. I was away on holiday.
GR: Right. Yeah. We’re just looking at a photograph. Is this, is this in Holland?
HPR: It’s Holland.
GR: Yeah. He’s buried in Holland, is he?
HPR: Yeah.
GR: So, what was your first operation? So obviously you got to Linton.
HPR: The first, first operation we did was in Metz.
GR: Right.
HPR: We bombed Metz. It was the first operation we did, and we did a series of operations from all over.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: From St Nazaire.
GR: Any thoughts on the first op? As in —
HPR: Well, yes.
GR: Not apprehensive but —
HPR: That was interesting.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Because that first op we were late in returning. We didn’t see any particular flak or anything but we had a lot of reports when we came back that a lot of them had had a fairly hectic time.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: But we were fortunate. We were a couple of minutes late sort of thing getting back and we didn’t really see a lot of it. But we saw the latter end of it but we weren’t worried about it ourselves.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: So that was it.
GR: So, yeah. It went well. Yeah. And that was it. You were in the system.
HPR: We were absolutely in the system. Exactly.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And then —
GR: And this would have been the summer of 1944.
HPR: That’s it. Yeah. And then we carried on then right through.
GR: Can you remember when your first operation was? Would it have been —
HPR: I can’t remember exactly the date.
GR: May. June.
HPR: June it would be.
GR: June.
HPR: It would be June. Definitely. Yes.
GR: So did you do some of the what they called the Normandy bombing runs?
HPR: Yes. Oh, yes.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
HPR: St Nazaire.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: All those sort of places.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: We did all those bombing runs.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: D-Day. You know.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: So then after that as I say we eventually landed up in this, at Wanne Einkel, in —
GR: This was about, this was about your twentieth mission.
HPR: Twenty, this was the twenty first.
GR: Twenty first.
HPR: Twenty first mission.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And that, as I say we did the bombing run. We were hit. The —
GR: Hit by flak.
HPR: The flak, yeah. Oh yes. It was predictive, predictive flak actually because you could tell because we were on a fifteen thousand feet.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And flying straight and ready for the bombing run. I shouted, you know, ‘Bomb doors open,’ and away. Bob said, ‘Bombs gone away.’ You know.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: That was it. We turned off then having as we were turning we got hit. The outer, port outer engine was hit. I feathered the engine. Put the fire out but we were hit by flak again. The skipper was hit in the leg. The bomb aimer was hit. His nose. He broke his nose. And then there was the, we got it, the aircraft back as far as Dordrecht in Holland.
GR: In Holland. Yeah.
HPR: And we were going to bale out as I said. We. The first out was the rear gunner who said, ‘Keep it straight and level so I can get my ‘chute.’ His ‘chute was in, was obviously not on his, in his turret.
GR: No.
HPR: It was outside his turret.
GR: He had to come back to the fuselage to get it, doesn’t he?
HPR: He come back. Yeah. He come back.
GR: Yes.
HPR: Pick up his chute, put his chute on and dived out. Mid-upper, the mid-upper gunner was the second. Bob, the navigator went. Then Twyneham the wireless operator and then Bill, the bomb aimer went. And I was the last out. I helped to get the skipper back to the rear of the plane. Put a hand on the handle of his chute.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Said, ‘Off you go,’ and kicked him out.
GR: Yeah. You pushed the pilot.
HPR: I followed him out.
GR: You pushed the pilot out.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Then you were the last one out.
HPR: I followed him out. The aircraft was losing height all the time and it crashed just outside Dordrecht. We found out eventually that a part of it they found is now in a museum or was in a museum in Dordrecht. Which was the wing of the aircraft was in there. And I was, I landed on the outside, on the outskirts of, of Dordrecht. Eventually met up. I met the bomb aimer, the navigator and the air gunner. Rear Gunner. All together. They marched us into Dordrecht.
GR: Was you picked up straight away?
HPR: We were. Yes, I rather funnily enough the chap that picked me up spoke perfect English. He said, ‘Good afternoon,’ and I was bloody flabbergasted as you can well imagine. But he was telling me he’d been working for a German shipping company in Liverpool before the war.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: He was a corporal in the German army.
GR: Oh right.
HPR: And he’d worked in this, for a German shipping company in Liverpool docks. So they marched me, ‘Raus [unclear] they said. Well, there was, well we knew that the bomb, we were told that the pilot had had his legs blown off and he was dead when they reached the ground. But there were two others who were missing. That was, one was Twyneham and the mid-upper gunner was Ken Dugdale. The last report we had there was somebody had landed on the church at Dordrecht and had been hit by rifle fire. We eventually found out that that was in fact Ken Dugdale.
GR: Right.
HPR: He was put into hospital in Dordrecht at the time. Eventually they picked up Twyneham in a field outside Dordrecht. They’d brought him in and then we were all put in, into the local jail at Dordrecht in Holland. And eventually the, we were shipped from there by a rickety old bus to Frankfurt on Main.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And there we were held in the, the German headquarters there and interrogated by two officers. One who purported to be, had worked, also been educated at Oxford. So he reckoned. By the way we never found out whether he was. Spoke perfect English.
GR: How was you treated in between?
HPR: That’s right.
GR: In between, ended up in the local jail.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: To get into Frankfurt. Were you treated well?
HPR: No. No.
GR: No.
HPR: We got nothing really. All we had was a slice of bread.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Black bread and a cup of soup.
GR: But you weren’t mistreated.
HPR: No. We weren’t mistreated.
GR: No. No.
HPR: No. We were just [pause] except when we were, we were so tired we were told by the guards to get up and —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Prodded with rifles but nothing —
GR: Nothing. Yeah.
HPR: Particularly untoward. But none the less it was a bit scary.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Then as I say we were taken by —
GR: Because by that time in 1944.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: I know of certain bomber crews.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: American and British that were murdered basically. They were you know if they were captured by some of the civilians.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Especially if they were near the places they’d bombed.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Then the, and the authorities used to turn a blind eye. That’s why I was asking if —
HPR: Yeah. Well, the biggest problem we still had our parachutes with us. They still, we had to carry our parachutes where ever we went.
GR: So you stood out like.
HPR: We’d stand out. That’s right. When we got to Frankfurt then we got a little bit of flak from the local people.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Because we had to march up to get to get to the railway station in Frankfurt and we got a bit of flak from the people there. They were spitting at us and telling us this, that and the other, you know. Terror fliegers. So, eventually we got to the German headquarters at Frankfurt. We were interrogated there as I said. Then we were moved on from there and eventually landed up in a place called Dulag Luft.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Which was just outside Frankfurt. And we were there for quite a while. Then eventually from there we were shipped out to —
GR: Luft 7.
HPR: Poland.
GR: Yes.
HPR: That was at Stalag Luft 7.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: In Bankau near Breslau.
GR: So, that would be around about October time, wouldn’t it?
HPR: That was.
GR: Shot down in September.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: October.
HPR: That’s right,
GR: Yeah. October. November. I was going to say how was prison life but I presume you weren’t in the prison camp long because did they then start, as the Russians were advancing did they take you out on what became known as the Long March.
HPR: Yeah. What happened was we were in there. Stalag Luft. That’s [pause] the first camp we went to. That’s a map of the —
GR: Oh, right. Thank you. Yes. Stalag Luft 7.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Bankau, Silesia.
HPR: The first camp we went to was a temporary camp because that hadn’t been completed. We were in just little huts.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Which were only about seven foot high and about, you know twenty four foot long. Then we went to that camp eventually when it was completed. And it was said that nobody would ever escape. Escape from there sort of thing. But nobody did. We didn’t. We were there until —
GR: Because in your own mind was you aware the war was coming to a close?
HPR: Well, yes. We were. We were getting reply. Reports from UK. We had two guys. One who was shot down the first day of the war.
GR: Right.
HPR: And he was a wireless operator and he was a very clever lad. He managed to get, he’d got a phone. A telephone, telephone wires and eventually managed to get a radio signal and he was, he was giving us reports.
GR: Reports. Yeah.
HPR: Virtually every day of what was happening during the war. He was an excellent guy. The padre was there also who was a nice, a very nice chap. I’ve still got the bible that he gave me there, and I’ve carried that everywhere. I’ll just show it to you.
GR: Show me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HPR: I’ll get it for you.
GR: Yeah. And I’ll just pause the —
[recording paused]
GR: So we’re just looking at a Holy Bible that was presented to Philip by the —
HPR: He was the padre.
GR: The padre. Victor —
HPR: He was acting padre. He was —
GR: Victor [Coops.]
HPR: Yeah. He became, he became a full time vicar afterwards.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: After the war.
GR: Yeah. So the Holy Bible with a stamp inside it that says Stalug Luft 7. Incredible. So, so when was you taken out the camp and put on the Long March?
HPR: Yes.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: That was on the —
[pause]
GR: It would be January time.
HPR: 17th of January.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: 17th of January and I was on that Long March twenty one days or thereabouts.
GR: For about, so for about three weeks. Where did you end up then, Philip?
HPR: We ended up eventually at Luckenwalde.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Which was [pause] the camp number was camp three and we were there then. There were fifty four thousand in that camp which was really required to keep about ten or twelve thousand.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: So we had no, no beds. No nothing. Just palliases. Wooden —
GR: Straw beds yeah.
HPR: Well, yeah.
GR: I presume, I presume you was in, because you were shot down in September.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: You was in quite reasonable physical condition.
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Unlike some of the chaps who had been there three or four years. Were they —
HPR: That’s right.
GR: Were they —
HPR: Yeah.
GR: Thinner? And —
HPR: Well we, I, we’d all lost weight obviously on the march.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Because we had very little food.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: It was only a question of a cup of soup a day. A slice of bread a day. Maybe one spoonful of sugar or whatever.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: One cup of coffee which was horrible. Ersaz coffee made of acorns.
GR: Acorns.
HPR: That’s right. And I lost, my weight came to around six stone twelve when I came home.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: So, I was about eleven stone when I, when I, when I got shot down.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And we, not only myself but everybody else.
GR: Yeah. So in a period of seven or eight months.
HPR: Were in the same situation.
GR: Yeah. It’s a very big weight loss.
HPR: Very little food.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: We were at this camp for, as I say there were fifty four thousand of them there. Russians, Poles, Germans, err Russians, Poles, Czechoslovakians all sorts of nationalities.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: The Russian’s camp itself was separate from, from the main camp. Then eventually as I said the Russians overran us in, when was it? May.
GR: Yes. End of April.
HPR: End of April.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: That’s right.
GR: It was the Russians who took over the camp wasn’t it?
HPR: The Russians —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Took over the camp completely. Then we heard that the Americans were on the other side of the Elbe.
GR: Yes.
HPR: They were advancing. We got word to them to say where we were. They eventually brought trucks up. Fifty trucks to take all the, all the American and the British prisoners out of the —
GR: Out.
HPR: Out of the camp. The Russians refused and as we were moving on they fired us over the tops and with rifles, they said, ‘Nobody leaves this camp until we get an exchange of prisoners.’ Fifty four thousand prisoners in exchange for all these other prisoners that you’ve got. The Russians were, the Russians in the Russian side of the camp were released by the Russians and told, ‘There’s a rifle. Off you go. Kill as many Germans as you can.’ And outside the camp was one gun post which had six German army guys there. They went out and they said, ‘Bring back proof that you’ve killed them.’ They brought back six heads.
GR: God.
HPR: And said, ‘There we are. We’ve killed them.’
GR: Yeah.
HPR: For ourselves we tried to get on but as I said they told us we can’t get. So we were in that camp now until well I didn’t get home until June.
GR: So, how did you eventually get out the camp? Was it —
HPR: We eventually —
GR: The Russians just let you go or —
HPR: Eventually they transferred so many prisoners in exchange.
GR: Right.
HPR: They transferred them over on the Elbe.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: The Germans and the Russians and they allowed us to leave. We then, they then took us from there back into Frankfurt, then on to, I flew then from, they took us down to Holland and we flew back home to Tangmere.
GR: Tangmere.
HPR: In Sussex.
GR: What aircraft did you fly back on?
HPR: Dakotas.
GR: Dakotas.
HPR: That’s right.
GR: I know they were using Lancasters, Dakotas and American B17s, so —
HPR: That’s right. Yeah. Dakotas.
GR: You got a Dakota.
HPR: Flew on Dakotas back to Tangmere and the first time we, the first meal I had, I will always remember was fish and chips in Tangmere. That was the blessing.
GR: Yes.
HPR: While we were in, in Holland with the Americans we were fed with very good food obviously. With bacon and eggs and —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And pineapples and goodness knows what. Excellent I must say. Then we eventually came home. I had a slight bit of flak in my left leg which had played up a bit. It was still weeping and what have you. They decided that first of all they were going to put me into hospital. There was, I said I didn’t, I wanted to go home first if I could because I had no, I had no knowledge of whether my family were alive or whether they were dead or what happened because only one, they only had one letter from me after I became a prisoner of war to say that I was a prisoner of war. To confirm that. But no other mail had got through. So eventually they let me home with details of what had happened to be given to my doctor and he treated me. Then after three weeks I went back to Cosford Hospital. They looked at it and said it was ok, it was fine. I could go back on leave. I had another three weeks leave. They were trying to treat us because we were undernourished. The only way they could give us extra rations was by giving us rations that were normally used for WAAF’s pregnancies. That was double rations.
GR: Double rations.
HPR: And so I was having two lots of bacon, two lot of meat, two lots of beef —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Two lots of butter etcetera etcetera to build up. So eventually I then got posted back to Cosford. I did a course there. I stayed in the RAF.
GR: Yeah. Were you back, when you came back from prisoner of war camp —
HPR: Ah huh.
GR: Did you learn then that all the others had come back with you? So the rest of the crew apart your pilot did they come back at the same time?
HPR: Oh yeah. They all came back.
GR: Did they, were they in the same camp by the way?
HPR: They came back virtually at the same time.
GR: Oh right.
HPR: But were disbanded into the RCAF.
GR: Oh course. They would have been sent back to Canada, wouldn’t they?
HPR: That’s right.
GR: Yes.
HPR: They went back to Canada.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And then, as I said I came back home here. As I say they all went back to their jobs except Bill Sloane went back to Montreal, but then he went on to America. He decided to go down to America. We lost all trace of him. The rest of them we, we kept in touch with for a while. Bob Walters died of, he had cancer. He died about ten years ago. The next one who died was [pause] Ken. Ken Dugdale. Mid-upper gunner. He died of cancer in Saskatchewan. Twyneham stayed. He was alive until four years ago. He died in London. Who else was there? Bob as I said. Bill Sloane went on to America so we —
GR: Yeah. Lost track of him.
HPR: Lost all trace of him. There was myself still here. And Johnny de Luca.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Obviously of Italian parentage.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: He died two years ago.
GR: Two years ago.
HPR: He had a blood disorder.
GR: Oh dear.
HPR: Which they couldn’t cure.
GR: Did you stay in the RAF?
HPR: I stayed in the RAF until 1948.
GR: Oh, ’48. Right.
HPR: Went back to Cosford. I went to training to do a equipment officer’s job. I did it at Cosford for a while. Then they came along and said, ‘Right. We’re sending you on a bomb disposal course.’
GR: [laughs] What a thing to do.
HPR: So they sent me on a bomb disposal course and I was then employed getting rid of phosgene and mustard gases by firing them with sten guns. Blowing them up. Burning them.
GR: What a way to do it.
HPR: Yeah. So then they said, ‘Right. We’re getting you posted now to a place called Cottam, which is just outside Driffield.’
GR: Yes.
HPR: And that was a bomb disposal unit. They had bombs. Two hundred, four hundred pound bombs all over the place there. So we had to, well we was selling these to Iraq and Iran. We were repainting them and sending them off after the war to Iraq and Iran. So I was in charge of this unit there and eventually I applied for a permanent commission. They offered me a short service commission of four years. And I said no. This is ’48 and I said, ‘No. I’d rather it’s either a full commission or I’m out.’ So then, it was then I came out.
GR: Right.
HPR: 1948. Although, if I’d stayed in the guys who also applied for, for a short service eventually got a full —
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Commission because they were short of officers in the 1950s. So, I came out. Then got a job in one of the utilities with is the Electricity Boards.
GR: Back in Wales.
HPR: Back. No. First of all in Yorkshire.
GR: Right.
HPR: In Driffield.
GR: So you decided to stay in —
HPR: In, well in Hull really.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And then I transferred from there back to Wales.
GR: Right.
HPR: And I got a job with the Electricity Board in Wales. From there, I stayed with them for about three years and a guy came along and offered me a job with a company, an American company called Kelvinator making refrigerators. So I joined them as a sales rep. Left then after about three years. Got a job with Phillips Electrical who were forming a new group for white goods. So I became an area manager for them and eventually left them after seventeen years. They headhunted from another company called MK which made electrical switches and sockets. Became a sales manager from then. Then they asked me to go to South Africa. So I went to South Africa for two and a half years to, as a marketing manager and eventually marketing director for them in South Africa.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Sold the company in South Africa which they wanted me to do. Came home and then retired.
GR: Right.
HPR: Then somebody came along and said, ‘I’ve got a job for you.’ I said I didn’t really want a job. ‘Oh, we’ve got a job.’ So I went to work then for the government on marking, checking marking of GCSE exams.
GR: Oh right. Yeah.
HPR: In Harrogate.
GR: Yeah. So you was living up in this area by then.
HPR: Yeah. Finished up. I finished up here.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: Became the, as I said I have a house in, before I came here I had a house in Askham Richard.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: And do you know, so before that we had a house down in, I worked for, when I worked for Phillips I worked in London with them.
GR: Yeah.
HPR: At, so I had a house in Horsham for three years.
GR: So you moved around a bit.
HPR: So I’ve been around a bit.
GR: A wonderful life. Yeah. Very very good. So how are we doing? Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Hayden Philip Rose
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gary Rushbrooke
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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ARoseHP180222, PRoseHP1801
Format
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00:41:20 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
Netherlands
Netherlands--Dordrecht
Germany
Poland
South Africa
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Poland--Tychowo
Description
An account of the resource
Hayden Philip Rose was born on the 27th of July 1924. After leaving school he worked in the Simmonds factory office before joining the RAF in 1943, training as an engineer. His brothers also joined, becoming a pilot and a navigator. Upon meeting his crew at RAF Aldwark Manor they were posted to RAF Riccall where they trained on Halifaxes, before joining 426 Squadron at RAF Linton-on-Ouse.
On their 20th operation, they were hit by anti-aircraft fire upon which they bailed out near Dordrecht, and the pilot was killed in action. The crew were then held at German headquarters in Frankfurt for interrogation and eventually sent to Stalag Luft 7. He reports that when the Russians reached the camp they gave them rifles to kill as many Germans as they could. They took back six heads to prove that they had killed them.
He flew back in June 1945. After three weeks leave, he completed further training before being posted to RAF Cottam, where he stayed until 1948. Rose recounts his life after demobilisation, including working in South Africa and keeping in touch with his crew.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Tilly Foster
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1945-06
1948
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
426 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bombing
Dulag Luft
faith
flight engineer
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Riccall
RAF Tangmere
shot down
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11625/PBattyPH1635.1.jpg
2aee8713edeba3f0e12ff9611a7b3431
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11625/PBattyPH1636.1.jpg
0bdcb720b8025e650311be9b602e9973
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11625/PBattyPH1654.1.jpg
c5846e939afc27120e65d9f73e8fb9a3
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/177/11625/PBattyPH1655.1.jpg
1ba7415e9694e21257f171e4ced3d363
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Batty, Philip
Phil Batty
P Batty
Description
An account of the resource
19 Items. The collection consists of one oral history interview with Philip Batty (b. 1925). He discusses the death of his older brother Dennis early in the Second World War, his wartime service with 50 Squadron at RAF Sturgate as a wireless operator/ air gunner, and his long post war career. The collection also includes a number of group photographs of airmen after training, photographs of aircraft in southern Africa, his log book and propaganda material.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-14
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Batty, P
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Thornhill Southern Rhodesia 1948
Description
An account of the resource
Formal photograph of 20 aircrew of No 5 Flying Training School, arranged in four rows. Captioned 'Thornhill Southern Rhodesia 1948'. Corrugated iron structure and hedge in background.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1948
Format
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Two b/w photographs
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBattyPH1635, PBattyPH1636, PBattyPH1654, PBattyPH1655
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe--Gweru
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1948
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
aircrew
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1178/11749/AVanRielJF150825.2.mp3
cffc6c8e3da6c0812386bffac7a93acf
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Van Riel, Coby
J F Van Riel
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with Coby Van Riel (b. 1932), a memoir and her brothers war diary. She was a recipient of the Operation Manna food drops.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
VanRiel, JF
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MC: This interview is being conducted on the behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Mike Connock. The interviewee is Mrs Coby Van Riel. The interview is taking place at her home at Bracebridge Heath on the 25th of August 2015. So, Coby if you can just perhaps tell me a bit about where, when and where you were born.
CVR: Yes. I was born in the Hague in Holland on the 6th of August 1932. And my brother was born two and a half years before. And my parents were not that young because my father had been married before and he lost his wife from tuberculosis and his little baby as well, died as well. And after that, he knew my mother because she was the sister of my father’s, sorry the sister, yeah of my father’s brother. I say difficult. Two families. Two brothers and two sisters. Yeah. So my mother knew him already and then they got to know each other better and they married at a later age. So, when I was born my mother was already forty-one.
MC: Oh goodness.
CVR: Yeah. So, I went to a school. It was the, for little toddlers first in a place called Scheveningen, near the Hague. A fishing harbour. And after that I went to the primary school. Also in that area. And then I, so we, we still lived close to Scheveningen. You know, on the edge of the Hague in the Brederodestraat and my mum, my mother had a chemist shop. Although in Holland they call it drogist. And that means it is a shop. There they can sell everything like in a chemist’s shop except drugs. No prescriptions from doctors and all that. And then I went to the Grammar School. Also, still in the area and I have to think about the —
MC: Did you enjoy the schooling? Can you remember much about your schooldays?
CVR: Yeah. I can remember more in detail but I don’t know if you want to know all about that. But anyway, so I have to think.
MC: What did your father do?
CVR: My father was, worked for a baker’s delivery shop. The co-op. Actually, the co-op it was called in Holland. And not Co-op but Volharding which I think was the same company and he used to deliver bread. And he did lots to earn a little bit more money to keep us going because when my mother had the chemist shop and towards the wartime in 1939 there was a critical time, you know. In ’39. And can you call it malaise or [pause] very difficult to keep going, you know. People used to go to other shops if they got something for a half a cent cheaper than in my mother’s shop.
MC: Yeah. Yeah.
CVR: So it was very hard for them.
MC: Was it unusual for both parents to work in those days? Because, I mean, your father worked at a bakers but your mother ran the chemist shop.
CVR: Yeah. My father had a hard job and because he always helped his brother, my uncle, in the middle of the Hague — he had a café restaurant and he used to work there in the evening to help out, you know. And he wouldn’t come home before 1 o’clock sometimes. And sometimes he used to earn a little bit more money. He used to work in the night in the bakery shop and where the bread was baked and had to get it out of the ovens and all that. And he did a newspaper round. He had a very very hard life doing wallpaper for people, you know. And just to keep my brother and I going because the time was so expensive then. And then the war broke out.
MC: So the time before the war it was, it wasn’t easy.
CVR: No. It was a very hard time and at one point it was so bad and I can remember that that we couldn’t, we didn’t have any heating. We didn’t have enough money. Or my parents didn’t have enough money for the heating and my brother and I would sit at a table with our coats on in the wintertime and our hat on to keep warm and then sent to bed early. And then the baker around the corner took pity on us and I can remember he came with buckets full of pieces of coal to keep the stove going, you know. Yeah. That was really great. But yeah then the war broke out.
MC: So how old were you when the war broke out? So, you would be seven? Seven or eight.
CVR: Yes.
MC: Seven.
CVR: Yes. My birthday was in August and I would have been eight in August but the war broke out in May of course. You know. The 10th of May. And I remember that very vividly and that’s where my story starts you know.
MC: Ah yeah. But yeah, but go back.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Because obviously it was September ’39. It was in ’39 that Britain was at war.
CVR: Yes.
MC: But Holland.
CVR: Was on the 10th of May.
MC: 10th of May.
CVR: Yeah. In 1940.
MC: Can you remember, what, did things change? What was it like at the time? Can you remember?
CVR: In 1940. Yes. The start of it which I have written about was. That in the morning there was an enormous commotion and we heard the aeroplanes coming over of the Germans. And you know everybody ran outside to the harbour because the parachutists, the German parachutists came down and there was a lot of bombing going on as well. So I, as a little girl, you know, I thought I want to see that as well. My parents were too busy. And I quickly, I put something on and my apron and I forgot to put a skirt on. I just ran to [laughs] And I had, as a child I had no idea what that was. Staring at these aeroplanes and people dropping from the aeroplanes on parachutes. But the bombing was going on and I ran back home. And then that was really terrible because people who were injured they ran to the first chemist, drogist shop. Which was my mother’s. There was nothing else. And my mother started to help the injured. But in the end then badly injured people came in. She couldn’t do it any more. She didn’t know how to do it. So I don’t know what she did. Referred people to other places and I think she closed the door. She had to. But I can remember that. It was awful. Really awful.
MC: So when did you first come across any occupying troops?
CVR: Actually, that same day, you know. We were astonished to see the Germans in uniform coming. And they occupied the whole area there. Just us on the border. There was one street to the border of the Hague and Scheveningen and they occupied the whole area. Germans coming in and buying stuff in the shop. And we were just gobsmacked. But that lasted till the beginning 1943 I think. I wrote about it. When they wanted all the people living there, all of them, out. We just were told you have to leave within so many hours. So my mum had to get rid of all the stuff in the shop. I don’t know how she did it. She had some stuff there. I was still going to school from ’40 to ’43 in that area. I got an ausweis, you know. A permit to go to the school but in the meantime my aunt and uncle who had a café restaurant offered us a place because we were chased out. And they said, ‘Well, the only thing we can offer you is go into our cellars below the restaurant café.’ You know. So, my mum and my dad did that and I remember the last time I went to school in the occupied area there was a huge commotion and bombing going on and at some points. And I nearly was too, not far from the school and I was on my little scooter — you know when you move it, one foot on the step. And that was quite a distance from where we were living then, you know with my uncle and aunt. But then I got close and I got so frightened all of a sudden because there was all people were fleeing and going away. So I turned around and just went back. Luckily. I don’t know what would have been going on then after that.
MC: Do you know why they moved you out?
CVR: Because they, the Germans were afraid that from then on the English would come over with their armies and planes and whatever to occupy. Chase the Germans out of Holland and they had put already those things on the beach. I don’t know what you call them.
MC: Ah yes.
CVR: Yeah. And they were laying mines in the sea there. We were not allowed on the beach at all beforehand already. So we were just chased out. All of us who were living there. And we lived in the cellar. And my aunt and uncle said well don’t worry because it’s only maybe for a couple of months and the war will be over [laughs] In ’43? We lived there ‘til after the liberation.
MC: You lived there all that time.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What did, I mean were you, were there any evidence of any rebellion, you know?
CVR: No. Not in that area. I know there was the, what do you call that?
MC: The Resistance.
CVR: The Resistance was there.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: You know. I wrote about that as well. And I didn’t know that at some point there were certain newspapers going around and also —
MC: Illegal newspapers.
CVR: Yeah. Trouw and Parool I think it was called. And there were people around us who had to take messages, important messages to certain people. And there was one day, it was such a strange day I think that there was nobody who dared to go out with messages and they thought, ‘Hold on. The children. They won’t suspect children.’ And I was asked to take a very important message to a few streets further on. And they said, ‘We’ll put it in your shoe, under your sole, you don’t say anything. You go there. You do as if you go to see a friend. You have to go to that and that address and you deliver that message and don’t speak to anybody. Don’t. Do ignore the German soldiers if you meet them.’ And I did that, you know. So God knows what kind of message that was. Yeah. But we, we noticed quite a few things. Around the corner was a shop and there was, the owner was a Jew. A very nice gentleman. Really nice. And one day there were razzias. You know razzias? A razzia is when suddenly, unexpectedly Germans came along the houses and picked up people. At one point it was boys and men from the age of sixteen I think till whatever. Over forty. They were picked up and sent off.
MC: Forced labour.
CVR: Forced labour. So, one day we thought what’s happening around the corner? This lovely Jewish gentleman was got out of his house. I remember that. Seeing him. He was taken away by the Germans and gone. Never heard of him before.
MC: Because your brother at that time wasn’t old enough for forced labour was he?
CVR: My brother was two and a half years older. Then in ’43 —
MC: So, you would have been ten. No, he wouldn’t.
CVR: Then I must have been —
MC: He would have been about fourteen.
CVR: About ten to twelve. About twelve. Thirteen yeah. So. Yeah.
MC: So, he wasn’t able, he didn’t, he got away with forced labour because —
CVR: No. No.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: But at one point there was another razzia, you know and we were having a party in the café restaurant. We always had parties with the family and so all the old blinds were down of course. You had to have blinds and things. So, we were having this party and then suddenly, that was in the evening, there was a knock on the door of the restaurant and my uncle said, ‘Quick, shhh all down in the cellar. All of you.’ And so we were part of some members and I remember that, lying on the staircase listening what was going on. And later I heard from my uncle when it was safe to come out. He, he hid the son of my neighbour, a cousin of mine. Yeah, the two. Because my brother was not old enough. They got in the top of a big cupboard. On the shelf. There was space but just. They were sitting there. But my uncle had to give up because the dog was there, Sunny. Sunny the dog and he started to bark like anything in front of the cupboard. So we had, the boys had to come out and they were hidden somewhere else. I don’t know. In our cellar or whatever. So the door was closed and we heard my uncle talk to the German soldiers and later he said when it was okay to come out for us and they left. He said, ‘You can come out.’ We continued the party but silent. Silently. And we did but I heard that he had given the German soldiers loads of drinks he still had. Alcoholic drinks. Beer and God knows what so they were really cheerful and in the end they thought, ‘Oh, there is nothing going on here. We’ll leave.’ That was our luck.[laughs]
MC: That sounds very good, that does. Yeah.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Yeah. Yeah. So, what about your parents still managed to do their jobs and their business? Run their business.
CVR: My, my mum was just housewife then.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: She had lost her shop so she looked after us, after us and helped in, as long as the café restaurant was going but in the end there was no food anymore but she helped there and polished the floors. And my father still delivered bread in that area, and it was with a little cart which they did you know at that time. But then in the Hunger Winter it became so bad. And before there was hardly any bread. We had coupons. I can show you later. You know, I still have coupons and, but there was nothing hardly left and then people started to plunder?, is that right, my father’s cart and it was really dangerous. He couldn’t prevent them and there was a lot of things going on. Fights and all that. So he stopped delivering bread and it was not worth anymore because we had only a small loaf for the whole week. I think for a person or whatever.
MC: So how did you survive? Money and things like that.
CVR: Well, money wise I don’t know how that worked. I think my father still earned something, you know.
MC: Oh.
CVR: And my uncle as well in the café. And they offered money for, oh a guilder for one potato. Nobody had that. But what was your question again about that? Oh yeah. The food. The food of course. So they had assistance from the IKB. I K B. That was an interkerkelijk — interchurch organization, a bureau who, and asked the children of us and that was December ’44. After ’45 then. Beginning ’45 to let the children come over to certain areas and then we were examined by doctors and divided into three groups — A, B and C. And I think A was the worse, B medium and C was the children who were still alright. And my brother and I were examined and we were put in the worst group — A. And then they said, ‘You can come,’ I think it was twice a week here, ‘And you will get, you have to get your little saucepan, not a big, a little saucepan and you will have some stew or porridge.’ And we were allowed to take it home but what, what’s happened at home because we were living with then, I think thirteen people together in my uncle’s house.
MC: So, you were still in the cellar at that point.
CVR: In the daytime we were in the cellar. In the daytime there was another uncle who died from starvation. And then neighbours came down and we were in the daytime with thirteen people, you know. But they do, when I and my brother came back with a little saucepan we all ate of it and these church people got to know that. They said, ‘Ah. No way they go home with their food. They have to eat in the place itself.’ Yeah. So, you know I’ve still a photo of it in a little booklet I got from Holland, “The Hunger Winter,” and there are photos in there. And also, my brother and I would go to the centres. There you could go and queue up and they would be coming, there were long queues and food would come from another place by boat from Delft to the Hague. And then brought to the, to these streets where you had to queue up. And you had your coupons and you would get from the big, we call them gamellen big metal [pause] yeah, containers where the food was in there. And they would ladle out, one it was either stew or soup but nothing much in it, in your saucepan and you would go home. But some days when there were raids and bombing going on the food wouldn’t turn up. You had to go home. The next day you could come and the food in the summer would go off but you still ate it, you know. So anyway, those things helped a little bit. And a kind butcher asked my mother if my brother and I could come over on a Saturday. He would try to do as much as possible to cook something from where he got it from, from bones. Cook a little bit of soup and veg and with other children we sat there but our stomachs were not used to it anymore. Because meanwhile we ate tulip bulbs, nettles, grass, fodder from the kettle. What was the [pause] sugar beet. That was all we tried to eat. So when we sat in the butcher’s shop around a table, all as small children and it’s not a very nice story but some children they couldn’t [pause] they couldn’t keep it in.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Later they started eating the same again, you know. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible. But we had fights at some points when the trailers came in with all these containers. The gamellen the metal containers. And you could go there as well, you know, to get something. But my brother and I and other people, young, all gangs. We called ourselves gangs climbed on the trailers because all the food had been given out. We climbed on it and we would lick, lick from these gamellen and I have a photo in that booklet as well. I haven’t got my own photos because we didn’t have cameras. So how they got hold of it in the booklet. And then we started to fight. You know. We suddenly divided into gangs and they started throwing stones from both sides. The children. And then I remember, I remember that so much and I felt horrible. I thought stones. Them throwing stones at us and we all try to lick the things. I thought forget it and I never went back anymore.
MC: No.
CVR: I hated it. I never did it anymore.
MC: Yeah, it was —
CVR: So that’s how it got around and in the end you know then in April when the RAF came over with the food and the Germans had not allowed them to do it. They asked permission. They said no way because they wanted to starve the whole west out. No. Nothing was allowed to come to us. Not even in Holland from the east where it was a bit better. They said, ‘No. You’ve got on strike with a Resistance group,’ you know. ‘You blocked our trains for ammunition and stuff for the war to come out.’ He said, ‘Right,’ they said, ‘Right. That’s your punishment. The whole west where the strike started you won’t have any food any more. You sort yourself out.’ And then in Holland the Resistance group or the head of the Resistance group got in contact with London. With Queen Wilhelmina and Churchill and they said, ‘You have to stop to try to liberate now. You have to feed us because already twenty thousand people in the west died from starvation and if you don’t do that there will be hundreds maybe two or three hundred thousand people dying very soon.’ And that helped. Wilhelmina and Churchill said, ‘Right. Liberation has to stop. First the people.’ That was our luck. You know. And then the RAF came over and I’ll never forget it. And they didn’t yet know because the Germans had forbidden them to come over with food. But it was towards the end of the war. So, they had to lose their face then you know. And the RAF still didn’t know whether they would be shot at.
MC: The early ones, yeah.
CVR: Nothing happened.
MC: Yeah. Eventually they, they had a truce.
CVR: Yeah. And then I stood outside. I ran outside and everybody ran outside and we looked up and we saw those aeroplanes coming. I just get goose pimples. In the distance we saw the aeroplanes coming over and drop food parcels in certain areas. And from there on we got food. And from the Swedish Red Cross. I’ll never forget that. We got Swedish bread. I first thought, as a child the bread came rolling down now. They had dropped huge bags of flour. They were brought to the bakeries and they baked the bread. And that was the first time I got a piece of bread from, again from Sweden. And the parcels, we had to get them from the RAF. It was divided, you know. Some burst on the, on the ground as well, bitterly but what was there that was divided. Everybody could come in. I don’t know how they did it. With coupons or something. And you got your parcel with a strong warning not to eat straight away all of it. Just little portions because our stomachs were not used to it. But it was high time. You know, I nearly lost my mother and father and that was told on the 21st of April to all the people in the marquee. The Dutch attaché introduced me. He had asked me a little bit. I’d never met him. He had it all in his computer and he introduced me to all the people in the marquee and he talked about it. And I suddenly felt, felt two tears down my face. I thought, oh no. I don’t want to do that.
MC: This was in April of this year.
CVR: Yeah. Yeah.
MC: Yeah. The Operation Manna commemorations.
CVR: I still have it on the television. You know. I kept it but it’s a pity I don’t have more solid things.
MC: Yeah. So, when the food was dropped were the Germans still around? Was the —
CVR: Yes. They were.
MC: Were they, did they get any of the food?
CVR: No. No. And that, that helped us over because it was in April and on the 5th of May for us that was the end of the war.
MC: Yeah. Yeah.
CVR: And then, but it took a long time for people and there were still loads of people who died still, you know because they were too far down.
MC: To survive. Yeah.
CVR: So one, one uncle died. And I heard, in the cellar we were sleeping with all the beds you know. One after the other. In between my bed there was string for my father and mother. But I don’t know whether they knew I was there. I was sitting behind my bed. And they had called the doctor and then I got worried and I was listening what the doctor said. And the attaché told the people in the marquee as well. I heard the doctor say to my parents, ‘I am so sorry but you have to prepare for the end because you need food. There’s nothing I can do about it. I’m so sorry.’ I heard that. It was just, they just made it, my parents. Just. Yeah.
MC: It was very traumatic. Yeah.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: So, but this, this —
MC: But they managed to survive with the drop. The food drop.
CVR: This whole event and I’m so grateful for it started in January. I’m with the U3A. You know the U3A?
MC: Yeah.
CVR: And I’m in different clubs but once a month we have a meeting and in January there was a speaker. We always had a speaker and that was Paul Robinson. The vice air marshall. He would come then to talk about, did he say [pause] no not, that he would talk. Give a talk. I don’t know what the subject was but something about his career and all that. So I was sitting there and then he started and somebody helped him to show his video and all the pictures on the screen. And then he came suddenly to the Manna operation. He was started talking about Holland and I was sitting there, you know having thought never to be reminded of it any more. And there was this huge picture of the people standing in Holland. They’re looking at the Lancasters drop the food. And he was talking about that and I started to shake so much that somebody next to me put his hand on my arm, you know. To calm down. And we could always ask questions. And I put my hand up and there were more people but I kept on. I think I have to talk to him. I have to talk to him. And when it was my turn I said, ‘I only want to say I was there. I experienced the Manna operation and I have never had the opportunity to thank you,’ I said, although he was not in it but I meant the RAF at that time. I said, ‘I never had the opportunity to thank you for all you did. Dropped the food. Because if you wouldn’t have done that I might not have been here. I might not have had a family of course. Nothing.’ And then I started, blurted out some of my story. I thought later how could I do that? And people, it was so the silent in the hall. There were about eighty people of us. And Paul was standing there and I was so much in my story, and the person next to me, I think he was an RAF man as well he tried to calm down I was shaking so much. And then in my story I looked up to Paul and he had his hanky. He was crying. And then later the whole room, they came to us and loads of people were crying then. I thought, oh no. What have I done? What have I started? But to have been talking still about it all the time from that speech of Paul in January and from there on it, it happened. He said, ‘I want you in it on the 21st of April.’ And I told him I had my story, you know so we were in contact and also you know I went to Hemswell Court. I was invited on the 21st and the 25th is postponed now. The talk. But I don’t know if I can do that again even if they ask me. It’s all in the past now to talk about Manna operation.
MC: Going back slightly. Did you continue your schooling throughout that period and then after the war?
CVR: Yes. In the wartime I had to ausweis, you know.
MC: Yes. You said.
CVR: And then as soon as the liberation was there and the English people took over from the Germans and then I got a permit. An official permit to go to school because in that area nobody lived there yet. But my brother and I were permitted, the school was opened in the area, to go there. So that was quite, going every day to and from. And my brother and I were very inquisitive and after school time we went through all the area and there was no wood left. Not near the tram rails. Not in the houses because we did as well. We stole all the wood to burn in our little stoves we had, you know. We had a special stove in the wartime called Mayo and we burned stuff in there. But my brother and I went through all the streets and we went into the houses. There was nobody there. It was very spooky. And we discovered that the floors had been broken up and we said, ‘God, look at there.’ I can still remember the German soldiers slept under the floors. They had their beds still there and material lying around. We didn’t dare to touch anything but we noticed that in several places —
MC: Which area was that in?
CVR: That was Scheveningen in the Hague again. The Hague and close to it the fisher, the harbour.
MC: Oh, yeah. Where you’d moved out of.
CVR: Yeah. So, we were allowed, my brother and I via the permit to go to school.
MC: To school.
CVR: Yeah. Till people slowly went back, you know, to their own houses or other houses. But my parents were not allowed to go there yet. You know, it was all a very slow process. Because I was there I said, and I knew my mother wanted to go back but not to open a shop anymore. My brother and I didn’t want them to do that because of all the previous long opening times, you know. And I thought hold on. I go the first streets when I cross that border where we have the permit and there was a canal as well. So the first street I went in it is called Zwolestraat where we lived later. And I just knocked on the doors where people were already living. A couple here. A couple there. And when I knocked on the door can you imagine a young girl like that doing that? People opened the door and thought what’s that? They were still frightened. And I said, ‘Can you tell me the name of your landlord?’ [laughs] And they would just smack the door closed and I thought I won’t give up. And I tried again and I got used to putting my foot in between the door and the side so they couldn’t slam the door on me. And at last one couple, they — and then I explained all of that and they said, ‘Right. We will give you the name of the landlord.’ And I don’t know how I got hold of the keys. I got hold of keys of, in that road to look at houses. And my mother was allowed then to have to look at the houses. Our house, which we started to rent there was the floor open and stuff from the Germans underneath, you know. But we started to live there. And I did that.
MC: So there was still the houses were still owned by these people.
CVR: Landlords I suppose, you know but —
MC: Yeah.
CVR: And then slowly.
MC: I just wondered whether people might have just taken over the houses.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Yeah. But there was —
CVR: It must have been chaos. You know.
MC: Yes.
CVR: I don’t know all the ins and outs but slowly people came to live there till everything was ready again and the wood was in the houses. And that place around a corner where the V-1 was launched, you say.
MC: Launched. Yes.
CVR: Launched. Yeah.
MC: Yes.
CVR: That was really very damaged. I’d seen that and my brother wrote about it. About that launching there. Yeah.
MC: Did you see any of the launches?
CVR: No.
MC: Could you see them from where you were?
CVR: The damage. I’ve heard. When we lived in my uncle’s place ‘til the end of the war and we saw the V-1 from the distance.
MC: Yeah. Yeah.
CVR: Shot off. And then on New Year’s Eve. One New Year’s Eve. That was the last New Year’s Eve I think, in ’44. We were all together all our family and we still managed to do a little bit together although there was no food. But we still had our own parties with whatever we had. And then suddenly we thought, oh no. Gosh. Another V-1 we saw going up to go to England I suppose. And then suddenly we all went, oh my God. It’s not going. It stops. It will turn. And it turned straight in front of our faces. And the whole family, they were standing there nailed to the floor because we didn’t know where it would land. And I was screaming my head off all the time. Nobody said to shut up because everybody was just, you know. I don’t know the word for it. They were stunned or whatever. And it went down a few streets behind us and a friend of mine, I still have contact with him, he lived there but luckily his house was not in [pause]
MC: Damaged.
CVR: In the damage but loads of other houses and all in the area the windows were, and the glass was everywhere but luckily we were then safe. Not other people unluckily. But quite a few people were killed in that V-1 that came down. So, I can remember that. Looking up. Screaming my head off and I was allowed to do that.
MC: So, when you, obviously the house that you moved into obviously needed rebuilding and —
CVR: Yeah.
MC: New floors.
CVR: Yeah, the wood.
MC: Did you get any assistance with that?
CVR: I think the landlord put all the wood, the wood back. Yeah. And inside my, my parents did everything.
MC: Wood must have been difficult to get hold of anyway.
CVR: Yeah. Yes, but I think it was not too bad and we lived there. And I lived there ‘til I got married. Yeah. Yeah.
[recording paused]
MC: Going back to some of your times during the war. I mean you mentioned things like you were forbidden to listen to radios.
CVR: Oh yes.
MC: And the Germans used to check you. Yeah.
CVR: Yeah. They were all hidden.
MC: Oh yeah.
CVR: All hidden. And as —
MC: You were told to hand them in but you hid them.
CVR: No. No. Hidden. And as soon as the programme with Churchill came on in the evening, 8 o’clock or so all the radios came out, you know and we were listening to it and the start of it, that special sound voom voom voom you know, news from Churchill. So, and then they were hidden again. But we had also to give all our jewellery, bicycles, you name it, we had to give that as well. But about the jewellery I have still have one little brooch left and money as well. Silver money. And that was with Queen Wilhelmina on it of course. And what people did they made jewellery out of the money. The silver money. And I still have one. I still have it.
MC: You talk, you talked about the German bunker. Passing the German bunker.
CVR: Oh God yeah. That was horrific that day. My mother, my brother and I walking home from church and that was just there where the Germans had their bunkers you call them?
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Yeah. And also, that canal which was contaminated by the Germans. We picked up scabies from that, really bad. Anyway, when we came home from church and we walked past and of course my brother and I looked and then this German bloke got so angry with us and he lifted up his grenade and my mother said, ‘Walk. Walk. Look forward, in front of you. Look. Walk. Walk. Go home. Go home.’ And then my brother still looked around and he went straight into a lamppost and he broke his teeth [laughs] Yeah. But we were terrified because we thought really that bloke would throw the grenade. Luckily he didn’t.
MC: Very frightening.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Yeah. I mean you mentioned about a Jewish family down the road. Obviously there was a lot of Jews around and of course they wore the —
CVR: My little friend you are talking about. When we still lived in, in the occupied place before we had to leave. I don’t know if you mean that one. My best friend around the corner Greetje Stellamon.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Never forget her name. I can cry now because I don’t know what happened to her and then at that time my mum on the corner with her shop and Greetje just living a few houses further and the whole family had to wear the stars. And my mother was so terrified because if it was spotted that I had a Jewish friend God knows what would have happened to me and my family. So my mother, bless her she had to forbid to get on with Greetje Stellamon and I suppose she had a talk with the family. And I never never went along with her any more. We just ignored the whole Jewish family because my mother, and my father I suppose were terrified that something would happen to them. And now yet and I have contact with Thea Coleman, this Jewish woman who survived the war as well and I haven’t talked about it with her. Sometimes I phone her and she phones me. She was there on the 21st of April but her story is also fantastic. She wrote it in a different way because she had to hide and she was twelve years old as well. And she had to go from one place to the other. She had, oh she had not a very nice childhood. In a certain way worse than I but she survived and now the strange thing is, Mike when we have been talking to each other we lived always close together in the occupied area. Never to know each other. We know all the roads and after the wartime she moved into a road straight behind the road where I lived, Zwolsestraat. She lived in Harstenhoekstraat — one street further. She was always close to me in whatever area we lived. We never knew each other. And every time —
MC: You lived that close.
CVR: Every time we come to different solutions. I think her cousin went to the same school as I went. Thea, just in the last three years of the wartime he went to the same school as I went also. And it’s just amazing. Just amazing.
MC: When you lived with your, in the cellar with your family. How many of you were there in the cellar then? Because —
CVR: My mother and my father. Next to them I slept, is three. Then my brother, four. And my cousin, five. And then the maître d who served in the restaurant.
MC: That’s the domestic help you referred to.
CVR: Six. And sometimes if my family could still come over before it got too worse then there was another one. So, about the most was seven or eight but normally five to six. Yeah.
MC: So, did you, you didn’t have any windows in the cellar then?
CVR: Horrible. Because it was low on the ground. We had two windows. If I look up. In my memory there was one there, small window. And there was one there, small window. And then you could just see through the grid. There was a grid in the garden of course from my uncle and aunt’s garden. Just look through the grid up there. And then there was this open place, you know. Just a bricked, bricked hole there. But then the Germans flooded the west of the country. Also as a punishment. The water came in those areas as well. In those holes. And that flooded into the cellar where we lived and every morning we were up to our ankles in the water. And then we got this flea epidemic. I was an expert in catching fleas there. It was absolutely a horrible situation. Yeah.
MC: But you ate, you used to eat upstairs in the restaurant there.
CVR: Well not in the restaurant but in the dining-sitting room of.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: You know we were with, with whom we lived there day in day out. We were sitting around a table with this uncle who died who was sitting next to me, you know. Yeah. It was really, really bad. But there was hardly anything you know. And if my aunt still could get hold of something. Especially from my uncle. He was the one who got extra food if he had. I don’t know but being a child if I noticed that there was something in the kitchen, just move that plant away, if there was something in the kitchen from my uncle. She managed one day I remember to make sort of pea soup and if I knew there was nobody around I quickly went to the kitchen and I just stole a few spoons of the soup. Or in the cellar, on the top she had some store or something from oats. Raw oats. And I would put my hand in it and ate a handful of oats. You know.
MC: Yeah. Amazing.
CVR: I stole from the Germans as well.
MC: Did you?
CVR: It’s in there. Because they had potato plants in, in the parks you know and there was, there were always soldiers on guard with their guns and at one point my friends and I decided to steal potatoes, you know. Not telling our parents we went there and one of our group would stand guard for us to warn us if the German guard would come along. So we just pulled out potatoes, you know and we had a plastic or not plastic bag. I don’t know if plastic bags were there then. But in a bag and then one, at one point our guard shouted, ‘Run. Run. Run.’ You know. They never said anything [unclear] we knew we had to run. So we just ran home and I gave my parents these few potatoes. And I was told off by my father. He said, ‘Where did you get them from?’ And I would say, ‘I stole them from the park.’ And he said, ‘You must never steal.’ I remember him saying that honestly or honestly, profoundly. You must never steal. He said, ‘Give the potatoes and I’ll bring them back.’ I thought oh great. But I never saw the potatoes any more and I think we had eaten them that night [laughs] Yeah.
MC: Tell me about your story you told about David and Goliath. The two stoves.
CVR: Oh the two stoves. Yeah. David and Goliath because I told you that David we called the Mayo, Thea in our story knows this as well and she mentioned it at Hemswell Court when the BBC took film there. But that was very dangerous because they had to get that stove going. The David. The Mayo and put in all the stolen pieces of wood all the time to keep warm. And they warmed at the same time and the pan with water because we needed some times hot water and then it happened that my, the poor aunt she pulled the pan with the hot water over her leg. That was absolutely horrendous you know but that’s how we lived every day, you know.
MC: Because that’s where the wood came from. From the houses.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: To fuel the stoves.
CVR: Yeah. Oh people stole everything. Wood. Everywhere around. And then the Goliath. That was in the restaurant still. A huge stove. But that was not used anymore in the end. There was nothing. The restaurant was closed. There was nothing any more.
MC: You talked about the bicycle. Riding to the farms.
CVR: Oh yeah.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Yeah. And then often then they came back from the farmers and we had to give our linen, you know. In exchange for food.
MC: Swap it. Exchange it for food.
CVR: And then sometimes people went back on their bicycles. Sometimes without tyres, you know. Just the wheels.
MC: Why did they not have tyres?
CVR: Because if the tyres were finished you couldn’t get any new ones and then, then they came suddenly to a post where the German guards were they had to give everything. The bicycle, all the food stuffs, the lot. They had gone to the farmers for nothing that day.
MC: So the Germans could take the bikes off them.
CVR: Yeah. And the food.
MC: And the food.
CVR: So one day I went with my brother but we were not successful that day, you know. And then my parents were so near to starving as well I thought you know, I go. I knew somebody around the corner and I think he had a chicken farm. Yeah. So I went there and I knocked on these big doors and the doors opened and I put my foot in between there as well so I had learned that already from that time and I told him if, ‘My parents are very ill. They need some food otherwise they’ll die. Can I have a chicken that they can cook it and make some soup of it?’ And he said, ‘No. No.’ That was one of the people who didn’t cooperate. And I said, ‘Oh my father, he always delivers bread here. He has loads of bread,’ it was not true anymore, and I said, ‘I will get you a nice loaf of bread.’ But no. I had to get my foot out of the way. I didn’t get it.
MC: What about clothes? How did you cope with clothes?
CVR: Clothes. You couldn’t get clothes at all any more. And my mum, somehow she got hold of a vest and pants for me. Horrible. Horrible colour. Horrible green. Funny colour. And all straight. No shape in it at all. And God knows how much she paid for it but they were absolutely horrible. So, oh yeah, and what we did as well, people, if the men’s trousers were worn then the women would turn the material. All unravelled and turn the material and from the good pieces they made skirts for themselves or for the children. Yeah. They did that as well. No. There was nothing. I’ll show you the coupons as well, I have.
MC: You’ve got some coupons.
CVR: Yeah. Yeah. See then I go into it. I can talk for hours and my children would say, ‘Mum. Stop your non-stop talking.’ [laughs]
MC: You keep talking.
CVR: Yeah. But I still think again twelve years old. How, how could I remember all that? Now I have to, difficulty remembering other things, you know. The short term memory. It’s still okay but this is better in my memory than anything else. It must have been, made a huge impact.
MC: When you talked about you going to the farm and getting some chicken and that you said that you talked about getting a big, going to the Germans with a big bang.
CVR: Oh. Oh my gosh. If I remember that day. I thought I have to get some food, you know all that time that my parents were ill and my uncle. And there was, on the, on the main street I used to go on there to school if I still could go there in the city and then I thought I’ll go there. I never told my parents anything what I was up to. And I got the largest pan out of the cupboard and I went to this place which used to be called [unclear] And that was a place where they had [pause] it was a milk factory. Yeah. They got the milk from the farmers, you know, from the cows and there they processed the milk. But the Germans had occupied that factory and chucked out all the Dutch people. They, that was for them. Nobody could get anything. And I knew that they were cooking food as well there and I thought I would go there. So there was this German on guard there, you know, with his gun and I said in Dutch then, you know, ‘Could I have some food for my family because they are really very bad at the moment?’ And he got so cross with me and I didn’t go away. I said, ‘Please. Please. Just a little bit.’ And he got so cross with me. Couldn’t get rid of me. And he said something in German which funnily enough I’d picked up a little bit of German and he started shouting at me. I had to go away. And it was the fault of Queen Wilhelmina, ‘That schweinhund,’ he went. You know, you know what schweinhund means. ‘That schweinhund leaving you all to yourselves and just fleeing abroad.’ He said it was her fault and he wouldn’t give me any food and if I would not go away quickly he would just shoot me. And he went like this with his gun. And I’m frightened. I ran with my little legs as quickly as I could. I ran away and I came home. And then I got told off. My parents were mortified that I had done that. It was [unclear] never never ever to do that again.
MC: You got into a bit of trouble with your parents occasionally didn’t you?
CVR: Yeah. And with my brother as long as we could go to school along this big long road we passed a little shop which used to be an ice cream parlour before the war I think. And he tried to do something still for everybody you know. We had to pay a little bit of money. I think a kwartje they called it. Twenty five cents and then I got that, you know from my parents. And maybe later they did it without being paid. They were very good people and they gave us sort of what they called [unclear] and that was a very fluffy, a fluffy bit of, not ice cream but very fluffy stuff. Like foamy stuff and it was either white or pink and we ate that and that filled up our stomachs like anything, you know. And we never knew what it was. And later from my friend in Holland and in the booklet I got to know now that was made of sugar beets. Of the, the moisture, the sap that came from it they used to make that sort of foam in a certain way how they made ice cream in the machines.
MC: A bit like candy floss?
CVR: Yeah. Very light stuff.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: And that filled our stomachs up for an hour or so.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Yeah. That was what we did. Oh gosh and I’m sure, the rumours then but I’m sure we ate some cat and dog as well in the end. Yeah. What do you do?
MC: Yeah.
CVR: You eat rabbits.
MC: That’s right. Yeah.
CVR: And in that situation why not cat and dogs?
MC: You talked about getting bags of grain. When you’d got to sort out the mouse droppings.
CVR: Oh my gosh yeah. You had to sort all these grains out. It was [pause] we sat in the restaurant then. No people came any more. I remember sitting at a table and sort out all this grain and get all the droppings out, you know. And I used to make myself and my cousin Stijnie, a girl, she was a bit older than I, about four years older and we tried to make a sort of cake out of the sugar beet if we could get hold of it. Just put sort of soya sort of milk to get it smaller, or whatever we did. A sort of mincemeat machine, yeah, and tried to make a nice cake of it and make some thick, some [pectin?] in it. And once my uncle came out from the café restaurant to us because he still had, when there was still something to drink, my cousin and I always had to do all the washing up and before also when the food was still there and we got plates and plates for trays and trays full of stuff to wash up, you know. And as soon as that was finished he came with another tray. And then once he came at the back and he settled to how sort of, ‘What the hell are you going to do there?’ And we told him we were trying to make a cake of sugar beets. And oh he was livid. Livid. ‘Who would eat this rubbish you feed to the cattle,’ you know. ‘Stop it.’ But we didn’t stop. We wanted to eat something. Yeah. Oh dear. Crikey. I have so much information now. It’s amazing that I got straight into it. This one I have to have translated because it’s so interesting. I tried to find it because it tells me so much of, about the gamellans. If you have time.
[Pause. Shuffling paper]
CVR: Here we are, coming down. The parachutes. It’s a huge thing, you see.
MC: Yeah. After the war, yeah —
CVR: Yeah.
MC: And you talked about bread from Sweden arriving.
CVR: Yeah. Yeah. The flour came, you know first, in the centres.
MC: And you did your own baking.
CVR: Hmmn?
MC: You did used to —
CVR: No. it was baked for us in the bakeries.
MC: Right.
CVR: Yeah. But he had such a, every day he wrote what happened. How many —
MC: That was your brother.
CVR: What is luchtalarm again. When the alarm goes off again. That there is a bombing.
MC: A siren.
CVR: Siren. Yeah. Six sirens. Nine V-1s came over. Every day he said the same. Three V-1s. The next day twelve sirens. What we ate these days. Soup. Soup again. Or something else you know. It’s amazing what he wrote down for every day that happened. Half a litre of soup. Eight V-1s.[pause] Amazing. Amazing. His story is so different from mine but so interesting.
MC: So after, at the time of the liberation, obviously the liberating army came through.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: You saw the tanks.
CVR: Yeah. Yes. That was the day I was so astonished, you know. We all went to look when the tanks came in with the soldiers. And loads of then older teenagers, I didn’t do it, I was too young but all the older girls, you know they were mad about all these soldiers. Climbing up and kissing them and throwing flowers everywhere and, you know. And then after that all the girls who had been girlfriends of the Germans soldiers they had come along you know, run the gauntlet and before that all their hair was shorn off. They had to do that. I can remember that. I thought, yeah. You know, it was a sort of revenge. What, what use is it? But —
MC: But that was their only punishment.
CVR: Yeah. You can imagine how people reacted after that. But they left them alone. Nobody was attacked. Nothing.
MC: You talked about the canal.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: Being a tank wall.
CVR: Oh yeah.
MC: It was contaminated.
CVR: That was contaminated. And so all we children we jumped in it. We wanted to swim and, you know we felt free to do what we wanted to do. So all these children they got a skin [pause]
MC: Scabies.
CVR: Scabies yeah. Skin trouble. Scabies. So from the, the yeah sort of NHS [unclear] you know a service to look after people if they become ill and all that. And send doctors out to check and examine. And so all the children, including my brother and I were diagnosed with scabies. And my parents were given a sort of soap. Maybe I wrote about it. I can’t come up with it now. And in the evening they had to wash us totally and then put all this certain soap, I think there was sulphur in it. Yeah. A sort of sulphur soap. They had to cover us from top to bottom in this sulphur soap and then sleep in it the whole night. And then the next morning my parents were advised to make a bath ready. We didn’t have a bath. We had a sink top you know, with hot water. You had to sit in it. And then scrub us with a hard brush but my mum couldn’t do that, you know. So she washed us properly and maybe rubbed us very hard. And then I think that would do the trick and I think it did the trick but so many children had that and they were told all the stuff we had slept in that night we had to bring to a certain centre and it would be burned in an incinerator. I don’t know what my mother did but maybe she washed herself. I don’t know what she did.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: So that was at the end. After the war. At the end of the war was it?
CVR: Yeah.
MC: That was the end of the war.
CVR: Yeah.
MC: So did things get back to normal fairly quickly or —?
CVR: No. Not quickly. It took quite some time. A few months to get everything back to a sort of normality because there was still not food enough. That had to come in slowly, you know. It took a long time. Like you hear now in all the other countries where things happen. It takes time as well
MC: It does take time. Yeah.
CVR: People complain sometimes. Why not do things directly. It can’t be done. It has to be organized.
MC: So the [pause] your parents, your father carried on working but your mother didn’t. Where did you finish your schooling then?
CVR: Let me think. In 1948, I still know the name of the Grammar School where I went to then [Paulussbaustraat?] My brother and I went. And I finished my schooling in 1948. And, yeah. What did I want to do then? I was then sixteen. Nearly seventeen. And I wanted to go into nursing but nobody accepted me. I had to be eighteen. So I thought what shall I do then? And I thought hold on they take on younger people in centres where there is tuberculosis. In sanatoria. So I went there without telling. You know, I just went there. My parents. And went there and could I become a nurse there. I don’t know what the outcome was there then but then I came home. I told that I had did that. I had done that and my father went livid. I’d forgotten all about his first marriage and losing his wife and child from tuberculosis. And I can still remember him sitting opposite me and my mum was always very sweet and calm and all that. She didn’t know what to do. To say. And my father went, he was a good man but if he would get angry, and the words he said then sometimes, oh. But he said, ‘If you go ahead with that,’ I can still remember him sitting there, ‘If you go ahead with that I’ll break both your legs.’ He said that to me. And, and then I thought oh my gosh, you know. So the next day I thought I want to keep my legs so never went ahead with it.[laughs] And then, you know I thought, yeah what do I do then and then I decided to go to a domestic science school. And that was a course for two years but because there were only four students who wanted to do this special domestic science course that would last two years and they said we can take you on only for one year because we can’t keep you on for the second year. Only four. So you have to do this course, that was said to the four of us, in one year. It will be hard work but you will have to do it. Otherwise forget it. So we did it. You know. We did it in one year and then my father offered to me, he said, ‘Why don’t you stay on or apply for a course to be a teacher in cookery.’ Cooking. And I said, ‘No. I don’t want to do that.’ I thought I had to stay on in that school for a start. And the director Der Theresa, the woman, I didn’t like her at all. She was always caked in makeup and she was never very friendly. The teachers were fine and I thought no I don’t want to be in her school any more so I said no. And then later I thought how would he have paid for it? My father. I had no idea how he would have done that. Anyway, I said, ‘No. I don’t want to do that.’ And then I started applying for jobs. Loads of jobs. I wanted to be a midwife. I wanted to be a stewardess. I wanted to be a social carer. I wanted to be going on in dancing. I loved dancing and still, until two years ago I still did, tried to do the can-can. On my eightieth birthday I did a can-can. And I invited loads of people from church and U3A and they still talk about it. I do the swimming. I did a can-can. Anyway, I wanted to do that in performances. You know, theatre stuff. Nothing worked. I applied for a job for checking washing machines. Go in to that what was the best washing machine and things. The most silly things I did. Never got going. And then in the end I thought hold on I can apply with a steel company in the Hague. [Roopervandervoort?] a very famous steel company. And I have to earn money. My parents said, ‘You have to start somewhere. You have to earn money.’ Meanwhile I had finished my grammar school you know and I had got my diplomas and all that and my diploma from the Domestic Science School and then so I started to work for the steel company. And that was okay. I got my salary you know and worked from nine to five. And I didn’t like working from nine to five and I thought what shall I do now and the director of the steel company suddenly said, ‘Would you like to come with me for a week to Rotterdam,’ to the same company to set up a sort of system I did already in the Hague. And I said, ‘Okay fine.’ So he picked me up and he had a beautiful Oldsmobile. Went to Rotterdam and did that but in that time I had a boyfriend. He dumped me and I was crying every morning and this director said, ‘What’s wrong with you?’ I told him. I was okay in the daytime but oh that affected me so much. Anyway, I thought I’m fed up with this nine to five job. I want to do something else. You know what I did then? I applied to work for the police headquarters in the Hague. And I was accepted.
MC: Yeah.
CVR: As a telephonist telexist but that involved working different shifts which I loved. Night or day. Or Sundays. Easter. Christmas. I didn’t care. That was what I liked. On call sometimes. So I worked there till I met my husband. And I still worked on and we married and I still worked on but then I was expecting a baby and I had a miscarriage and then you know then I had to give up.
MC: So when were you married?
CVR: In 1954 I was married. In November. 20th of November ‘54. Yeah. And then after this miscarriage I was expecting soon again and I got with twins.
MC: Bless you.
CVR: Amazing. Yeah. So but I never went back to work then anymore. It was impossible. Impossible. Yeah.
MC: So when did you come to the UK then?
CVR: In 1966 when my husband worked for Esso. First for [unclear] and then for Esso. And then he was asked by an American boss of, in America then of Esso or that was not ExxonMobil yet I think. Anyway, he came over and he had talks with my husband and my husband [pause] yeah yeah he said would, would he be interested in a job in England? In London. To set up an office there for Esso. Although there was already Esso in I think it was Mund Street, someplace. Anyway, so we thought it over and we had my four small children and I was worried stiff about my children to move to England. And my husband said as well you know if he come to do it it will be very challenging and an adventure. He said, ‘If I say no I will be ever stuck after my bureau in the Hague. I will be never asked again for something.’ And anyway this, this person, the American, he was called Tom Kennedy and he came over again. And I had had talks with my English teacher. That year before we decided to move I went to conversation lessons in English. I loved it. And I said to her, I said, ‘We are offered this job but I’m scared stiff about my children.’ She said, ‘What? Don’t worry about your children. They will be fine. They will pick it up very soon.’ And she said, ‘And in your case don’t worry.’ Because at the Grammar School I had to learn, apart from Dutch, French, German and English. So I had three basic languages. She said, ‘Don’t. Don’t worry,’ you know. ‘Go to a little school there and you will be fine. Don’t worry.’ So then in the end when Tom came over and he invited us to go to Rotterdam on this sort of tower that went around like in London as well. We had a dinner and talks and he took us out on a canal tour with the children as well. And then in the end without children he invited us again and he said, ‘Have you come to a decision?’ And he said, ‘You know what? I think you are nearly there. I’ll leave you on your own here. Just have a coffee after your dinner. I’ll go away. I’ll come back and see what you have decided in the end because I have to know now.’ And he came back and my husband and I talked about it for five minutes and we said, ‘We’ll do it. We’ll do it.’ So we told him and he said fine. And from then on you know we moved to England in ‘66 with our four small children. And we decided on a house in Caterham in Surrey. But the people still lived there so they had to move out. They wanted to sell the house. And for the time being we were in Selsdon Park Hotel. Do you know Selsdon Park Hotel?
MC: No.
CVR: No. In Surrey. Anyway, a lovely hotel and we, we lived there a couple of weeks with the children until we knew we could settle in a house. And so it went. And we came without a penny because you know we didn’t have a lot of money when we lived in Holland. And then four children. And, and so we had to have a loan. A sort of mortgage. A bridging loan it was called. Yeah. And so we came without a penny and then we decided to get rid of this bridging loan and the mortgage as soon as he could and of course because he got this job in England he was paid well so we paid lots and lots off every month. What we could. And in eleven years we had done it. Yeah. We did it.
MC: Very good.
CVR: Really great. Yeah.
MC: So you’ve been in England ever since.
CVR: Yeah. On the day we, we moved that was on the Cup Final day. The last day of July ’66 was it?
MC: I think it was. Yes.
CVR: In July. And my taxi driver who picked us up from the airport and took us to the Selsdon Park Hotel he had a face like that. And he said, ‘You know what. Because I have to take you to the Selsdon Park Hotel I’ve missed the whole Cup Final now,’ [laughs] I’ve never forgotten that. Yeah.
MC: Well that’s a lovely story that Coby. It’s a lovely story.
CVR: Yeah. Yeah.
MC: And I thank you very much.
CVR: Yeah. And again I hope I didn’t keep you up too long.
MC: No. no. no. as long as you can talk we can record.
CVR: Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Coby Van Riel
Creator
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Mike Connock
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-25
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AVanRielJF150825
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:20:26 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Netherlands
Sweden
Netherlands--Hague
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1943
1944
1945
1948
Description
An account of the resource
Coby Van Riel was a child of about six when the Germans invaded Holland. She lived in a fishing port area of The Hague where her father had a number of jobs to make ends meet in the difficult days before the war and her mother ran a chemist shop. She witnessed the German parachutists landing and the bombing of the area and saw the injuries to the civilian population some of whom went to her mother’s shop for help. When the Germans took over the area the family were forced to move out of their house and give up the shop and they went to live in the cellar of her uncle’s café. She recalls the round-up of civilians sent to forced labour and of the local Jewish population sent to Concentration Camps. She talks about what it was like for civilians to live in the occupation and recalls the time she was asked to carry a secret message in the sole of her shoe. She talks of the Hunger Winter when people began to starve. She lost her uncle to starvation and her parents were very close to death when help finally arrived. She witnessed Operation Manna and expresses her gratitude for the efforts of the RAF. She also recalls seeing V-1 rockets and seeing the damage caused by them.
anti-Semitism
bombing
childhood in wartime
forced labour
Holocaust
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Resistance
round-up
V-1
V-weapon